# Cosmetic/Plastic Surgery and Christianity



## thatscuteright (Mar 9, 2005)

I had an interesting debate with a sister from my old church about Christians wanting to enhance thier physical appearance through the use of cosmetic/plastic surgery. I have no problem with it, embrace it, and encourage it. Reason being that we are representives of the Lord, and should look and feel our best. Some people buy expensive clothes, spend alot of money to maintain thier appearance through salon visits,beauty products, gym,and other cosmetic ways. The total costs of all that oftentimes equally or supercedes the amount of a cosmetic surgery procedure. All the non-invasive and nonsurgical elements are done with the same vanity of wanting to look your best.

This particular sister saw one wanting to get cosmetic/plastic surgery as vanity to the highest, complete waste of money, and disrespect to God. She stated that people should be more focused on tithing, and using thier money in a "constructive" way, and not on their nose, or cup size. She also said some other things that I agreed with, but I didn't particularly care for the way that she delivered her message.
Just out of curiosity, what opinions do you ladies have on the topic of cosmetic surgery and Christianity.


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## options (Mar 9, 2005)

I don't see anything wrong with it, if guided by the right motivation and sound information. By the "right" motivation, I mean that the procedure is being done purely for one's self edification, for their own self esteem, i.e. not for a demanding boyfriend or to fulfill a beauty standard they feel compelled to uphold (i.e. an older woman unrealistically thinking she should look like Joan Rivers or Goldie Hawn - having a totally distorted view of the changes that come with time).

At the most severe end of the spectrum, I would consider something like gender reassignment a complete afront to God and a total abomination. That is a complete denial of the form in which one was created.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 9, 2005)

I think plastic surgury is wrong.  I'm not saying it's a mortal sin and that anyone who does it is going to hell or anything, but IMO changing your features to please a more worldly view/standard of how you should look is like a slap in the face of your Creator.  I think God know what he was doing when he fashioned every one of us.  It seems foolish to me to put plastic, sillicone, whatever fake/foreign thing into your body, and have an invasive (potentially life threatening) procedure done for vanity.


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (Mar 9, 2005)

You know, a few years ago on my 41st birthday. I was feeling all ugly and old and just so low down. I was thinking about how man was created in the image of God and about how true this was by comparing Men to God. 
1. Men like to be praised, God likes to be praised (and rightly so)
2. Men are egotistical, God is egotistical sp (and rightly so)
I had a few other thought along this line but then it hit me that when God created Man in His image, that meant ME TOO!! Revelation, I already knew this but it never hit me like this before. So I thought if God created me in His image, then in God's eyes, I'm beautiful just the way I am. You see I dont wear make up but that day, I was thinking of going out and upping  the stock market for fashion fair. I was gonna do it up right.  Then this song came on that I like by Denise Lasalle. "God Is Absolutely Mad About You"  And I'm like yeah, thats right. God is mad about me. He loves me just the way I am, no matter what I say. He's like any parent, the child could have a face that only a mother could love but to that mother, thats the most beautiful child ever born.

While I do feel its vanity at its worst, I also say, whatever floats your boat. What I feel has no bearing on what another may feel. As a christian though, I do believe before undergoing such a procedure one should have a little talk with Jesus first. Pray on it, study on it, seek God's guidence before stepping out there.


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## Kalani (Mar 9, 2005)

Very interesting topic. I don't think plastic surgery is all that bad. I remember watching this plastic surgery show with my mom. This woman who use to be very heavy, lost about 100 pounds or something like that. Well apparently she had been heavy for so long that when she lost the weight, her skin was all stretched out. They showed her arms and it was like hanging skin bags on each limb! My mom and I couldn't believe it!  
Well the poor woman always had to wear long sleeves and was embaressed with the massive loose skin all over her body so she went through a procedure to have the excess skin removed. I think when they weighed all the skin they removed it was like 10 lbs or something like that!

The surgery was a success and the woman felt much better about herself. Procedures like this and also things like tummy tucks(for women who have had kids or C-sections) breast lifts and stuff like that aren't bad becuase it wasn't like they were necessary born or created that way. Circumstances sort of led to those things, IMO.
Having said that I also don't see anything wrong with a girl who is extremely self-consious about her big "hook" nose or large mole on her face. Even though God and her family see her as beautiful, she has to go out in the world everyday feeling self-conscious about those particular features that really bother her.

I personally have never had plastic surgery. But whose to say later on in the future if I get married and have a few kids, and my breasts end up sagging to my belly button, I may just want to have something done about that!   

Anyway, just my thoughts!


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Mar 9, 2005)

Ohh this should be good- I will join in later. Right now, I am at work...


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## Sweet C (Mar 9, 2005)

I guess the answer really boils down to the motive behind it in your heart. For example, I have had 2 friends who are very feet (under 5") with extremely large chest. They ended up getting breast reduction, b/c they were starting to have severe back problems and now those problems have been eliminated b/c of it. 

1 Tim 2:9,10- in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.

I think we all can confess we want to look good (hey, we are on a hair board learning how to better take care of our hair), but I guess the question u have to ask yourself is how far is too far? The scripture above state that we should not be overly concerned with looks in general, so I guess that is kinda where wisdom comes in.  That would definitely be something that u would need to pray on and seek God's approval for (like everything else in life).


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

I don't think there's anything wrong with it in and of itself. It's like wearing make up and doing your hair you do it to look good. And I think it may even stop some people from being overly attentive to their outside.  If you have to dress to always cover up something if you just go and get it fixed you won't be worried about it and can focus on your Godly works more.  Looking good and wanting to look good is fine. If it takes the place of GOD it's not fine.


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## cybra (Mar 9, 2005)

Many years ago I had contemplated having some cosmetic surgery done. However, with all things I have to decide, I went into a fully fasting and praying time before the Lord for his advice. He gave me Psalm 139 to read and memorize.  The main parts that stuck out for me were verses 13 - 16:

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and WONDERFULLY made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance WERE fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. 

For me, God was saying he had done a completed work in me.  We do not look at the statue of David nor look at the work in the 16th chapel and begin to say what should be change.  The artist has placed there all that was needed, it's a completed work.  For me, IMO, to begin to change and reshape who I am is saying God didn't finish me, or, he made mistakes that a surgeon, through my request, has to correct.  God has fashioned me into a marvelous masterpiece, why should I tamper with it?  Now, some say that if you do your hair, put on cosmetics, or wear fancy clothes you are tampering with God's work. I don't see it that way.  Many art pieces are decorated with other things (where they are housed, what is placed next to the piece to bring out certain features of the piece, etc.), but the artwork itself is not changed.  I can put on makeup, nice clothes, or jewelry, but my body (God's artwork) should not be altered.  

For me, the decision to change my physical appearance was to make me more attractive to others (primarily my husband), and to make me "feel good."  But, how did I know I didn't look good?  Did I compare myself to others to see where I was falling short?  If that is the case, then I did not follow what God commands...we are not to compare ourselves to this world!  Most of us, meaning me, want to look like those we see in magazines, on TV, or in other media.  Or, we compare ourselves to those around us who seemingly have everything at their beck and call because of their looks.  So, we want that too.  However, vanity is not of God.  Also, to change myself so men will lust after me is wrong, it causes others to sin in their hearts even if they do not touch me, and I have helped them to do so with my selfish act.  No, I won't let something like that be on my record when I stand before God.  I think if people honestly and truly ask themselves why they want it done, I'm sure most of time vanity is the root of such an act. God has made each of us just the way he wanted us, to be unpleased with his decision of who you should be is, IMO, unaccepting of a special gift from him.  I accept myself because I trust and love him and this is who he says I should be  and how I should look.  Besides, our purpose is to go out and be disciples, what does having large breasts, thinner or bigger hips, bigger lips, a fatter or reduced butt, or the like have to do with our purpose?  Think about it?  Also think about, how might our altering ourselves to have such things inhibit our service for God?

Personally, I'd rather stay as I am and faithful in my walk then to be altered and distracted from my God given task.  This is a good thread.


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## star (Mar 9, 2005)

Tamala said:
			
		

> I had an interesting debate with a sister from my old church about Christians wanting to enhance thier physical appearance through the use of cosmetic/plastic surgery. I have no problem with it, embrace it, and encourage it. Reason being that we are representives of the Lord, and should look and feel our best. Some people buy expensive clothes, spend alot of money to maintain thier appearance through salon visits,beauty products, gym,and other cosmetic ways. The total costs of all that oftentimes equally or supercedes the amount of a cosmetic surgery procedure. All the non-invasive and nonsurgical elements are done with the same vanity of wanting to look your best.
> 
> This particular sister saw one wanting to get cosmetic/plastic surgery as vanity to the highest, complete waste of money, and disrespect to God. She stated that people should be more focused on tithing, and using thier money in a "constructive" way, and not on their nose, or cup size. She also said some other things that I agreed with, but I didn't particularly care for the way that she delivered her message.
> Just out of curiosity, what opinions do you ladies have on the topic of cosmetic surgery and Christianity.


I agree with the sister and maybe she said it the wrong but wisdom in life comes by bypassing non-important things and looking at what is really said. *Whatever way God made you it is perfect*. I  think surgery is needed at times of emergency and when we just cannot live with something like a big nose. But, trully all this boils down to how you feel about yourself. I tell you *self-esteem is more than any money can buy you*. It is how you feel about yourself. I have met some _very_ unattractive people outwardly but boy when they open they mouth everything change. Being proud of the skin your in is such blessing and place of empowerment. No body can beat you being you. God don't make no junk.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

I understand what you are saying, but couldn't one say the same thing about women who relax, or color their hair. Should I not get my eyebrows or nails done? Should we not get our teeth whitened, or straightened. Should we not get lasik? The list could go on and on. 


Other than that, I have to say I have never thought about this issue before.  It is something to think about it. 
I personally think Christians should dress to impress, not flashy but look good at all times, because we represent Christ. We shouldn't represent him while looking a hot mess. But I don't know if I could translate that into all plastic surgeries. I think some are needed. Like the lady who had her excess skin removed, reconstructive surgery, babies born with cleft lips and etc... I also think that God gives us these surgeons, doctors, medecine to help us. So I don't know. I personally don't want PS right now, but, as with everything, I'd pray about it before I decided on anything.

I have always said I'd get a breast lift and tuck if babies distorted my body to much.  



			
				classimami713 said:
			
		

> I think plastic surgury is wrong. I'm not saying it's a mortal sin and that anyone who does it is going to hell or anything, but IMO changing your features to please a more worldly view/standard of how you should look is like a slap in the face of your Creator. I think God know what he was doing when he fashioned every one of us. It seems foolish to me to put plastic, sillicone, whatever fake/foreign thing into your body, and have an invasive (potentially life threatening) procedure done for vanity.


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## crml_buttafly (Mar 9, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I understand what you are saying, but couldn't one say the same thing about women who relax, or color their hair.


 
thats what i wanna know????

wanting to acheive longer hair, how would that fit in?

joyce meyers had a facelift and i'm sure many other ministers of the word have also.i'm sure she fasted and prayed over the descision.

i think it depends on the circumstances and the motivation behind it.


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## sillygurl18 (Mar 9, 2005)

I agree mostly. In the case of severe weight loss I don't see anything wrong with getting excess skin removed, breast reduction either when you are having health problems or maybe reconstructive surgery from an accident. But I don't agree with plastic surgery just for the sake of plastic surgery.


@honeyhips: That's one of the main reasons that many naturals went natural, myself included because they feel like God made them with nappy hair and there's nothing wrong with it.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

Sillygurl, I'm natural too, and one of my main arguements to other women was that if God made us in his image and he didn't create junk or made any mistakes, then natural hair can't be bad.  I mainly reserved that for those who were Christians and still believed in good and bad hair.


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## sillygurl18 (Mar 9, 2005)

Oh okay then!


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## landakaye (Mar 9, 2005)

Like someone said, God don't make junk. I want to change my appearance but not because I want people to think Im fine or what not but I want to be healthy. I am doing all of this through diet and exercise. I contemplated tummy tucks and breast implants but decided against it because I didnt think it was right. Id rather do it it the hard way because I think God would appreciate it if I worked hard to make my bodybetter. Our bodies belong to him. Everything we have I believe belongs to him and comes frm him. That probably made no sense to anyboy,lol.


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## cocoberry10 (Feb 13, 2006)

Sweet C said:
			
		

> I guess the answer really boils down to the motive behind it in your heart. For example, I have had 2 friends who are very feet (under 5") with extremely large chest. They ended up getting breast reduction, b/c they were starting to have severe back problems and now those problems have been eliminated b/c of it.
> 
> 1 Tim 2:9,10- in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.
> 
> I think we all can confess we want to look good (hey, we are on a hair board learning how to better take care of our hair), but I guess the question u have to ask yourself is how far is too far? The scripture above state that we should not be overly concerned with looks in general, so I guess that is kinda where wisdom comes in.  That would definitely be something that u would need to pray on and seek God's approval for (like everything else in life).



I was just thinking about this today, so it's funny that I found this post.  I also think that God looks at many of our actions and what's in our heart.  I'm not sure if it's a sin or not, but I would say anyone thinking about this, I think they should go to God.


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## BerrySweet (Feb 14, 2006)

I think this is def something that should be prayed on, so that your motives can be examined.  Do you want the procedure to fit into your society's standard of beauty?  Or do you want the procedure for yourself and are aware of the fact that surgery will not change the person inside?  God loves us all, regardless of how we look.  But I think in cases like this, it depends on what's in your heart.  A tummy tuck/breast lift is simply a procedure to restore what was originally there.  Implants and Botox and collagen is something different IMHO.


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## cocoberry10 (Feb 15, 2006)

BerrySweet said:
			
		

> I think this is def something that should be prayed on, so that your motives can be examined.  Do you want the procedure to fit into your society's standard of beauty?  Or do you want the procedure for yourself and are aware of the fact that surgery will not change the person inside?  God loves us all, regardless of how we look.  But I think in cases like this, it depends on what's in your heart.  A tummy tuck/breast lift is simply a procedure to restore what was originally there.  Implants and Botox and collagen is something different IMHO.




BerrySweet, I agree with what most of you said.  Usually, tummy tuck and breast lift is a procedure to restore what was originally there.  However, some people do use even these procedures for the wrong reasons.

I will not deny, recently I have been contemplating getting work done, and here's why:

I am barely scraping at 5'1" and I am somewhere between a 34DD and a small F.  I saw an Oprah show and I read in her magazine that we usually are a larger cup size and a smaller bandwith size than we think (i.e. we are usually one cup size bigger, and a smaller bandwith).  I wear an American size 2, and am a size 25 (in European sizes).  Thus, I'm a small girl!  I also have a high waist, so my chest stands out even more!  Alas, I was contemplating getting either a breast reduction or a breast lift.

I know a breast reduction could be done free (since my insurance will cover it).  However, I don't experience extensive back pain (I guess I've learned how to manage my bosoms, LOL   ).  Anyway, I do wish they could be a little more "lifted," since they sag (gravity) more than they should for someone my age (I'm in my early 20's).

I always feel self-conscious about the things, and don't dress as "young" as I would like.  I also don't like wearing bikini's, but figure it's now or never (I'll only get older and saggier, I assume with time).  

I've been praying about it, because I want to make sure I get any work done for the right reasons, and not only for vanity's sake.  I feel like that money could easily go to helping other people instead of myself, and that's where I'm conflicted with cosmetic surgery!


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## CaribbeanQueen (Feb 15, 2006)

BerrySweet said:
			
		

> A tummy tuck/breast lift is simply a procedure to restore what was originally there.  Implants and Botox and collagen is something different IMHO.



I hear what you are saying but couldn't it be argued that we should allow ourselves to grow old gracefully? 

If having implants and botox reflect a person who is trying to change who they are naturally, then wouldn't getting a tummy tuck/breast lift be changing the natural progression of age and/or child bearing?

.


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## CaribbeanQueen (Feb 15, 2006)

The Bible does not directly say "Though shall not change your appearance" and because of that, cosmetic surgery becomes one of those grey areas. I honestly think its a matter of personal choice. 

God has given us free will. But every action has a reaction. Having surgery could either make a woman feel more confident or it could end in botched results, complications or even death.

As one poster said, cosmetic surgery should be prayed about and very well thought out. 

Personally, I have been considering surgery for a very long time but reading this thread is causing me  to honestly re examine my motives


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## mzcaramelicious07 (Feb 15, 2006)

Hmmm.....this is a very interesting thread.  I too had a question about this and asked my pastor what he thought about it.  I'll have to comment later because I'm at work right now!


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## Lavendar (Feb 15, 2006)

Thank you ladies for this wonderful thread! Just to add some food for thought, especially for those who have absolutely decided that surgery should not be undertaken for "appearances" sake. I really think we always assume these procedures are used to "get someone's attention"...usually the opposite sex...by making ourselves more attractive. One sister mentioned that she may...and I'm paraphasing...cause someone of the opposite sex to be distracted and lust in his heart after she undergoes some kind of procedure. Well, why should any woman assume she is responsible for what is in some man's or woman's heart. So what about the men/women that are lusting after her now? I assume that every woman on this board is attractive/gorgeous in some way and at some point and time a man other than her husband has had thoughts about her. However, we as women are not responsible for their salvation, their relationship with God, nor their self control. Now if you plan to flaunt you new body for attention's sake, then that's another issue.  Are we conditioned as black women to feel guilty about wanting to be/feel beautiful and feel such way into old age? Maybe the question is...Can we be beautiful and humble at the same time? 

Now what about this?...Say you are not comfortable with your own body and therefore cannot fully share yourself with your husband because of it and it is causing strife in your marital life? Or say you are diagnosed with breast cancer and have to have a mastectomy or two? Surely, you don't have to have reconstruction and implants placed to make new breasts. You could very well argue that God's will was done, but is that really the case and would you be wrong for doing this? A friend of mine had a full tummy tuck and the flesh was used to create a new breast that was taken from cancer. This is the way the procedure is done, not because she wanted a flat tummy. Is that wrong or unGodly? And of course lots of extremely overweight people (men included) who have lost lots of weight have had full body reconstruction with everything lifted. 

In all these cases, these people...if the outcome is good...will look great after surgery, and that was the objective. They want to look great and feel great...so, vanity is still incorporated at some level in all of these cases and all of these people will be more attractive to the opposite sex, men and women. So...what do you think, would it be wrong to undergo plastic surgery? I still think there are many more "never say never" situations that go far beyond just plain 'ol liposuction.


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## dlewis (Feb 15, 2006)

I believe we all should pray and ask GOD what he wants before we decided on plastic surgery.  Joyce Meyer said she prayed and prayed and GOD finally told her, that was her face and she could do what her wanted with it.

I don't believe it's wrong but I don't think I'll ever have anything type of cosmetic surgery.  I'll just deal with what GOD has given me.

I believe my nose is no large, but if I have a smaller nose with this large head I would probably look funny.  

So I belive GOD gave me what he wanted me to have.


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## shiningstar84 (Feb 15, 2006)

ummm...so for those of you who dont agree w/cosmetic surgery, do you agree with relaxing your hair? Cause... that is a permanent change in your God given features, much like surgery is a permanent change in the features God gave you?


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## mahogany (Feb 16, 2006)

lwill38 said:
			
		

> ummm...so for those of you who dont agree w/cosmetic surgery, do you agree with relaxing your hair? Cause... that is a permanent change in your God given features, much like surgery is a permanent change in the features God gave you?





You can always cut your relaxed hair off so I don't see that as something really permanent. My only issue with plastic surgery is that it seems to become an obsession with some people. If you haven't prayed about and fully examined your reasons then I wouldn't get it because it may make the situation even worse.


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## Southernbella. (Feb 16, 2006)

Lavendar said:
			
		

> Thank you ladies for this wonderful thread! Just to add some food for thought, especially for those who have absolutely decided that surgery should not be undertaken for "appearances" sake. I really think we always assume these procedures are used to "get someone's attention"...usually the opposite sex...by making ourselves more attractive. One sister mentioned that she may...and I'm paraphasing...cause someone of the opposite sex to be distracted and lust in his heart after she undergoes some kind of procedure. Well, why should any woman assume she is responsible for what is in some man's or woman's heart. So what about the men/women that are lusting after her now? I assume that every woman on this board is attractive/gorgeous in some way and at some point and time a man other than her husband has had thoughts about her. However, we as women are not responsible for their salvation, their relationship with God, nor their self control. Now if you plan to flaunt you new body for attention's sake, then that's another issue.  *Are we conditioned as black women to feel guilty about wanting to be/feel beautiful and feel such way into old age? Maybe the question is...Can we be beautiful and humble at the same time? *
> 
> Now what about this?...Say you are not comfortable with your own body and therefore cannot fully share yourself with your husband because of it and it is causing strife in your marital life? Or say you are diagnosed with breast cancer and have to have a mastectomy or two? Surely, you don't have to have reconstruction and implants placed to make new breasts. You could very well argue that God's will was done, but is that really the case and would you be wrong for doing this? A friend of mine had a full tummy tuck and the flesh was used to create a new breast that was taken from cancer. This is the way the procedure is done, not because she wanted a flat tummy. Is that wrong or unGodly? And of course lots of extremely overweight people (men included) who have lost lots of weight have had full body reconstruction with everything lifted.
> 
> In all these cases, these people...if the outcome is good...will look great after surgery, and that was the objective. They want to look great and feel great...so, vanity is still incorporated at some level in all of these cases and all of these people will be more attractive to the opposite sex, men and women. So...what do you think, would it be wrong to undergo plastic surgery? I still think there are many more "never say never" situations that go far beyond just plain 'ol liposuction.



Yes, and heck yes! I have always believed that we as black women are conditioned to be humble, almost martyrs when it comes to our appearances. That's another thread, though.

I agree that this is a grey area. I probably wouldn't do cosmetic surgery just for kicks, but I would absolutely have breast reconstruction or facial reconstruction if I needed to. I enjoy being attractive, and I'm not afraid to admit it.


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## cocoberry10 (Feb 16, 2006)

Lavendar said:
			
		

> Thank you ladies for this wonderful thread! Just to add some food for thought, especially for those who have absolutely decided that surgery should not be undertaken for "appearances" sake. I really think we always assume these procedures are used to "get someone's attention"...usually the opposite sex...by making ourselves more attractive. One sister mentioned that she may...and I'm paraphasing...cause someone of the opposite sex to be distracted and lust in his heart after she undergoes some kind of procedure. Well, why should any woman assume she is responsible for what is in some man's or woman's heart. So what about the men/women that are lusting after her now? I assume that every woman on this board is attractive/gorgeous in some way and at some point and time a man other than her husband has had thoughts about her. However, we as women are not responsible for their salvation, their relationship with God, nor their self control. Now if you plan to flaunt you new body for attention's sake, then that's another issue.  Are we conditioned as black women to feel guilty about wanting to be/feel beautiful and feel such way into old age? Maybe the question is...Can we be beautiful and humble at the same time?
> 
> Now what about this?...Say you are not comfortable with your own body and therefore cannot fully share yourself with your husband because of it and it is causing strife in your marital life? Or say you are diagnosed with breast cancer and have to have a mastectomy or two? Surely, you don't have to have reconstruction and implants placed to make new breasts. You could very well argue that God's will was done, but is that really the case and would you be wrong for doing this? A friend of mine had a full tummy tuck and the flesh was used to create a new breast that was taken from cancer. This is the way the procedure is done, not because she wanted a flat tummy. Is that wrong or unGodly? And of course lots of extremely overweight people (men included) who have lost lots of weight have had full body reconstruction with everything lifted.
> 
> In all these cases, these people...if the outcome is good...will look great after surgery, and that was the objective. They want to look great and feel great...so, vanity is still incorporated at some level in all of these cases and all of these people will be more attractive to the opposite sex, men and women. So...what do you think, would it be wrong to undergo plastic surgery? I still think there are many more "never say never" situations that go far beyond just plain 'ol liposuction.






			
				lwill38 said:
			
		

> ummm...so for those of you who dont agree w/cosmetic surgery, do you agree with relaxing your hair? Cause... that is a permanent change in your God given features, much like surgery is a permanent change in the features God gave you?





			
				mahogany said:
			
		

> You can always cut your relaxed hair off so I don't see that as something really permanent. My only issue with plastic surgery is that it seems to become an obsession with some people. If you haven't prayed about and fully examined your reasons then I wouldn't get it because it may make the situation even worse.




After reading everyone's responses, again, I still believe it's something to go to God for.

Lavendar, I agree with everything you said.  

lwill38 and mahogany, I understand both of your statements.  I believe that anything can become an obsession, like plastic surgery, hair, appearance, shopping, money and even food!  We have to eat to live, and without food we would die.  However, some people spend their lives addicted to food (either overeating or starving themselves), and it becomes an unhealthy obsession.  I don't believe getting cosmetic surgery alone means you are unhealthy or obsessed.  However, like all things, even good things can be used for evil (i.e. Satan wants us to hate ourselves, and always look down at ourselves)!

Again, that's why I say I would go to God before making a decision like this.  There's nothing wrong with wanting to be improved and better.  In fact, we should strive to be better at everything as witnesses of God's glory.

However, God loves us and wants us to see ourselves the way He sees us...as beautiful creatures of His creation!  I don't think this means we can never get surgery, I just think we need to be clear as to the reasons why.

As I said earlier, I've been contemplating breast reduction or breast lift, since I am very small, but have bosoms like watermelons!

So, if you want plastic surgery, whether it be for reconstructive reasons, cosmetic reasons, to feel better, etc., there's nothing to be ashamed of.  However, it's important that  But just trust in Him!!!


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## cocoberry10 (Feb 16, 2006)

Lavendar said:
			
		

> Thank you ladies for this wonderful thread! Just to add some food for thought, especially for those who have absolutely decided that surgery should not be undertaken for "appearances" sake. I really think we always assume these procedures are used to "get someone's attention"...usually the opposite sex...by making ourselves more attractive. One sister mentioned that she may...and I'm paraphasing...cause someone of the opposite sex to be distracted and lust in his heart after she undergoes some kind of procedure. Well, why should any woman assume she is responsible for what is in some man's or woman's heart. So what about the men/women that are lusting after her now? I assume that every woman on this board is attractive/gorgeous in some way and at some point and time a man other than her husband has had thoughts about her. However, we as women are not responsible for their salvation, their relationship with God, nor their self control. Now if you plan to flaunt you new body for attention's sake, then that's another issue.  Are we conditioned as black women to feel guilty about wanting to be/feel beautiful and feel such way into old age? Maybe the question is...Can we be beautiful and humble at the same time?
> 
> Now what about this?...Say you are not comfortable with your own body and therefore cannot fully share yourself with your husband because of it and it is causing strife in your marital life? Or say you are diagnosed with breast cancer and have to have a mastectomy or two? Surely, you don't have to have reconstruction and implants placed to make new breasts. You could very well argue that God's will was done, but is that really the case and would you be wrong for doing this? A friend of mine had a full tummy tuck and the flesh was used to create a new breast that was taken from cancer. This is the way the procedure is done, not because she wanted a flat tummy. Is that wrong or unGodly? And of course lots of extremely overweight people (men included) who have lost lots of weight have had full body reconstruction with everything lifted.
> 
> In all these cases, these people...if the outcome is good...will look great after surgery, and that was the objective. They want to look great and feel great...so, vanity is still incorporated at some level in all of these cases and all of these people will be more attractive to the opposite sex, men and women. So...what do you think, would it be wrong to undergo plastic surgery? I still think there are many more "never say never" situations that go far beyond just plain 'ol liposuction.






			
				lwill38 said:
			
		

> ummm...so for those of you who dont agree w/cosmetic surgery, do you agree with relaxing your hair? Cause... that is a permanent change in your God given features, much like surgery is a permanent change in the features God gave you?





			
				mahogany said:
			
		

> You can always cut your relaxed hair off so I don't see that as something really permanent. My only issue with plastic surgery is that it seems to become an obsession with some people. If you haven't prayed about and fully examined your reasons then I wouldn't get it because it may make the situation even worse.




After reading everyone's responses, again, I still believe it's something to go to God for.

Lavendar, I agree with everything you said.  

lwill38 and mahogany, I understand both of your statements.  I believe that anything can become an obsession, like plastic surgery, hair, appearance, shopping, money and even food!  We have to eat to live, and without food we would die.  However, some people spend their lives addicted to food (either overeating or starving themselves), and it becomes an unhealthy obsession.  I don't believe getting cosmetic surgery alone means you are unhealthy or obsessed.  However, like all things, even good things can be used for evil (i.e. Satan wants us to hate ourselves, and always look down at ourselves)!

Again, that's why I say I would go to God before making a decision like this.  There's nothing wrong with wanting to be improved and better.  In fact, we should strive to be better at everything as witnesses of God's glory.

However, God loves us and wants us to see ourselves the way He sees us...as beautiful creatures of His creation!  I don't think this means we can never get surgery, I just think we need to be clear as to the reasons why.

As I said earlier, I've been contemplating breast reduction or breast lift, since I am very small, but have bosoms like watermelons!

So, if you want plastic surgery, whether it be for reconstructive reasons, cosmetic reasons, to feel better, etc., there's nothing to be ashamed of.  However, it's important that  But just trust in Him!!!


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## cocoberry10 (Feb 16, 2006)

Lavendar said:
			
		

> Thank you ladies for this wonderful thread! Just to add some food for thought, especially for those who have absolutely decided that surgery should not be undertaken for "appearances" sake. I really think we always assume these procedures are used to "get someone's attention"...usually the opposite sex...by making ourselves more attractive. One sister mentioned that she may...and I'm paraphasing...cause someone of the opposite sex to be distracted and lust in his heart after she undergoes some kind of procedure. Well, why should any woman assume she is responsible for what is in some man's or woman's heart. So what about the men/women that are lusting after her now? I assume that every woman on this board is attractive/gorgeous in some way and at some point and time a man other than her husband has had thoughts about her. However, we as women are not responsible for their salvation, their relationship with God, nor their self control. Now if you plan to flaunt you new body for attention's sake, then that's another issue.  Are we conditioned as black women to feel guilty about wanting to be/feel beautiful and feel such way into old age? Maybe the question is...Can we be beautiful and humble at the same time?
> 
> Now what about this?...Say you are not comfortable with your own body and therefore cannot fully share yourself with your husband because of it and it is causing strife in your marital life? Or say you are diagnosed with breast cancer and have to have a mastectomy or two? Surely, you don't have to have reconstruction and implants placed to make new breasts. You could very well argue that God's will was done, but is that really the case and would you be wrong for doing this? A friend of mine had a full tummy tuck and the flesh was used to create a new breast that was taken from cancer. This is the way the procedure is done, not because she wanted a flat tummy. Is that wrong or unGodly? And of course lots of extremely overweight people (men included) who have lost lots of weight have had full body reconstruction with everything lifted.
> 
> In all these cases, these people...if the outcome is good...will look great after surgery, and that was the objective. They want to look great and feel great...so, vanity is still incorporated at some level in all of these cases and all of these people will be more attractive to the opposite sex, men and women. So...what do you think, would it be wrong to undergo plastic surgery? I still think there are many more "never say never" situations that go far beyond just plain 'ol liposuction.






			
				lwill38 said:
			
		

> ummm...so for those of you who dont agree w/cosmetic surgery, do you agree with relaxing your hair? Cause... that is a permanent change in your God given features, much like surgery is a permanent change in the features God gave you?





			
				mahogany said:
			
		

> You can always cut your relaxed hair off so I don't see that as something really permanent. My only issue with plastic surgery is that it seems to become an obsession with some people. If you haven't prayed about and fully examined your reasons then I wouldn't get it because it may make the situation even worse.




After reading everyone's responses, again, I still believe it's something to go to God for.

Lavendar, I agree with everything you said.  

lwill38 and mahogany, I understand both of your statements.  I believe that anything can become an obsession, like plastic surgery, hair, appearance, shopping, money and even food!  We have to eat to live, and without food we would die.  However, some people spend their lives addicted to food (either overeating or starving themselves), and it becomes an unhealthy obsession.  I don't believe getting cosmetic surgery alone means you are unhealthy or obsessed.  However, like all things, even good things can be used for evil (i.e. Satan wants us to hate ourselves, and always look down at ourselves)!

Again, that's why I say I would go to God before making a decision like this.  There's nothing wrong with wanting to be improved and better.  In fact, we should strive to be better at everything as witnesses of God's glory.

However, God loves us and wants us to see ourselves the way He sees us...as beautiful creatures of His creation!  I don't think this means we can never get surgery, I just think we need to be clear as to the reasons why.

As I said earlier, I've been contemplating breast reduction or breast lift, since I am very small, but have bosoms like watermelons!

So, if you want plastic surgery, whether it be for reconstructive reasons, cosmetic reasons, to feel better, etc., there's nothing to be ashamed of.  However, it's important that  But just trust in Him!!!


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## mahogany (Feb 16, 2006)

cocoberry10 said:
			
		

> After reading everyone's responses, again, I still believe it's something to go to God for.
> 
> Lavendar, I agree with everything you said.
> 
> ...




I'm against vanity type surgeries, but sweetie if you feel you should get a breast reduction because of health reasons then go for it. My opinion should mean nothing, I have no idea what it would be like to carry such a load  so  I apologize if I made you feel vain about inquiring about surgery. My main point was that as Christian women we should be strong and powerful, not insecure especially if the insecurity is coming from someone else. I watched some Maury show where this man lost his wife because of a bad tummy tuck and he felt awful.  He kept saying maybe if he would have told her how much he loved her it would have build up here self-esteem then maybe she would have never made that decision. I wonder the same thing about others who consider plastic surgery.


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## cocoberry10 (Feb 17, 2006)

mahogany said:
			
		

> I'm against vanity type surgeries, but sweetie if you feel you should get a breast reduction because of health reasons then go for it. My opinion should mean nothing, I have no idea what it would be like to carry such a load  so  I apologize if I made you feel vain about inquiring about surgery. My main point was that as Christian women we should be strong and powerful, not insecure especially if the insecurity is coming from someone else. I watched some Maury show where this man lost his wife because of a bad tummy tuck and he felt awful.  He kept saying maybe if he would have told her how much he loved her it would have build up here self-esteem then maybe she would have never made that decision. I wonder the same thing about others who consider plastic surgery.



I agree.  However, I realize that when someone doesn't love themself, no matter how much you tell them, it can't really penetrate in their mind.

Maybe she wouldn't have done it if he told her how beautiful she was.  But most likely, she was empty inside, and that probably had nothing to do with him.  It's unfortunate.  I've read articles about fatalities with plastic surgery, and I once saw a show about it too.  This woman (she was white) seemed like she had a great life.  She talked about how much her parents loved her, said she was 5'7" and 115-120 pounds (so she was slender) before the surgery.  She married a really wonderful man (for a white guy, he was attractive and actually so was she) and he was ready to love and take care of her.  But she wasn't satisfied with her thighs (for her frame she had large "saddlebags").  Anyway, she got two surgeries--the first went really well, but the second left her scarred and disfigured.  She has spent over $40,000 trying to correct the second surgeries damage.  It cost her, her marriage, her life, and she was talking about rebuilding her life.  She told girls to love themselves first, and know that they have many amazing qualities outside of how they looked.


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## beyondcute (Feb 17, 2006)

My mama always said God dont make mo mistakes and he dont make no junk! My interpretation: dont mess with Gods perfection.


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## cocoberry10 (Feb 19, 2006)

beyondcute said:
			
		

> My mama always said God dont make mo mistakes and he dont make no junk! My interpretation: dont mess with Gods perfection.



Well said!


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## secretdiamond (Feb 21, 2006)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I understand what you are saying, but couldn't one say the same thing about women who relax, or color their hair. Should I not get my eyebrows or nails done? Should we not get our teeth whitened, or straightened. Should we not get lasik? The list could go on and on.
> 
> 
> Other than that, I have to say I have never thought about this issue before.  It is something to think about it.
> ...



Ditto.   My boobs are not small and they already sag. AND I have seen what kids did to my mother's body.   She's fine with it, but I know I won't be.  Plus, I'll be doing it for me and my husband. Yes, I said my husband.  He is the only one who will have access to my body and he should always like what he sees. lol.  BUT firstly, I should like what I see.  Whether people acknowledge this or not, this is mainly b/c I believe in a great sexual relationship as part of the MANY tools in a successful TRULY happy marriage.  As a young person, I am already self-conscious about my body. I would hate for it to be 10 times worse when I get older and not being able to feel secure or confident around my FH.  I will literally be hiding from him. (I know it)  It will be a conlclusion we both will come to and work on AND pray on.  Moreover, this will be after exhausting all other possible ways to solve the problem.

If I do get it done, I will have no shame or qualms about it (unless it looks bad) lol. Yes, GOD made my body perfect and I want in no way to disrespect HIM. But like HoneyHips mentioned.... I have relaxed hair, I occasionally wear makeup, get my nails done, etc.  And one day, will have my teeth whitened.  People liken getting tattoos and piercings to PS as well---- permanent change to the body, but what about millions of CHRISTIAN women who get their ears pierced?  Yes, you can take out the earring, but the hole is definitely permanent.  Moreover, tattoos today can be removed and tongue rings actually do heal. (I don't have any though).

Even with that said, I am SHOCKED that Joyce had a face lift, but like someone said, it's all about your relationship with God. PRAY ON IT.


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## cocoberry10 (Feb 21, 2006)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> Ditto.   My boobs are not small and they already sag. AND I have seen what kids did to my mother's body.   She's fine with it, but I know I won't be.  Plus, I'll be doing it for me and my husband. Yes, I said my husband.  He is the only one who will have access to my body and he should always like what he sees. lol.  BUT firstly, I should like what I see.  Whether people acknowledge this or not, this is mainly b/c I believe in a great sexual relationship as part of the MANY tools in a successful TRULY happy marriage.  As a young person, I am already self-conscious about my body. I would hate for it to be 10 times worse when I get older and not being able to feel secure or confident around my FH.  I will literally be hiding from him. (I know it)  It will be a conlclusion we both will come to and work on AND pray on.  Moreover, this will be after exhausting all other possible ways to solve the problem.
> 
> If I do get it done, I will have no shame or qualms about it (unless it looks bad) lol. Yes, GOD made my body perfect and I want in no way to disrespect HIM. But like HoneyHips mentioned.... I have relaxed hair, I occasionally wear makeup, get my nails done, etc.  And one day, will have my teeth whitened.  People liken getting tattoos and piercings to PS as well---- permanent change to the body, but what about millions of CHRISTIAN women who get their ears pierced?  Yes, you can take out the earring, but the hole is definitely permanent.  Moreover, tattoos today can be removed and tongue rings actually do heal. (I don't have any though).
> 
> Even with that said, I am SHOCKED that Joyce had a face lift, but like someone said, it's all about your relationship with God. PRAY ON IT.



Again, well said!  Before you make any decision, you should go to God, and if you are comfortable with it, it's between you and Him!


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## cocoberry10 (Mar 3, 2006)

I found this post, and thought this was an interesting perspective on the topic.  I found it at http://www.gotquestions.org/plastic-surgery.html




What does the Bible say about a Christian having plastic / cosmetic surgery?





Question:  "What does the Bible say about a Christian having plastic / cosmetic surgery?"



Answer:  I do not believe that plastic surgery in and of itself is wrong. However, there are several things that one needs to consider before deciding whether or not to have anything like this done. Altering one's body is unnatural, and there are always risks of potential side effects – both physically and mentally. No one should allow themselves to be put "under the knife" without thoroughly researching all alternatives, risks and side effects involved with the surgery. A person also needs to fully understand his or her motivation for desiring the surgery. For many who were either born with or later acquire physical deformities, it is natural to want to fit into society and feel "normal." There are also cases of slight abnormalities that would cause someone to feel very uncomfortable with themselves, such as a very large or misshapen nose. But many, if not most, plastic surgeries are done because of people's attempts at meeting their emotional voids in physical ways. They are trying to feel better about themselves by attracting attention and seeking approval from others.



According to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, the most commonly performed cosmetic procedures include breast augmentation/lifts, liposuction (the removal of body fat), facelifts, eyelid lifts, buttock and other body lifts, leg vein treatments, botox/fat injections, and nose and face reshaping. Approximately two million people subject themselves to these kinds of procedures each year, shelling out money and sacrificing time and comfort. When the attitude of a person undergoing surgery is that of vanity, he or she has become his or her own idol. The Bible warns us not to be vain or conceited (Philippians 2:3-4) and not to draw attention to ourselves by the way we look (1 Timothy 2:9). Another concern would be the cost. Most insurance companies do not cover costs associated with cosmetic surgery, so the expenses would all come out of the patient's pocket. This is a major consideration because most people have significant others and/or families that have needs to be taken care of; the expense of plastic surgery should never come before the needs of the family. The Bible also tells us that we need to use wisely the money that God has entrusted to us (Proverbs 11:24-25, Luke 16:10-12).



The most important thing to do before making the decision to undergo plastic surgery would be to consult God about the issue. The Bible tells us that God cares about every worry and concern that we have, so we should take our problems to Him (1 Peter 5:7). Through the wisdom and guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, we have the ability to make decisions that will please and honor Him. "Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing, But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised" (Proverbs 31:30).


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