# You can't love God and sex, can you?



## Belle Du Jour (Mar 9, 2005)

I'm always shocked by people who claim to be living for Jesus and on fiyah for Him (who are "saved") who also have active sexual lives.  Isn't this a conflict of interest?

I was raised to believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong.  I've read many books, and listened to many tapes on why a woman's sexuality is her strength, and her "bargaining chip" so to speak where men are concerned (i.e. in exchange for my body, you give me a contract/pledge of marriage).

(I try not to judge, because although this isn't an area that I struggle with, I do have my own issues.)  We know what the Word says, but what is your opinion?  Are the old laws outdated?  Should Christians adapt or "keep up with the times" as some ppl say?  Or are people just fooling themselves when they rationalize that it's okay for them to engage in sex outside of marriage?


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## cece22 (Mar 9, 2005)

You can actually love God and sex if you are married sex is natural and very normal. But sex outside marriage is displeasing to God I am no judge I just go by what he says in his word the Bible. Some may say that this info is outdated but it can never be. Look at how many cases of aids, STD's, and abortion not to mention unwanted pregnacy not to say that this doesn't happen to married people. But it is on the rise amongst the unmarried more so. And the Bible even states not to be sucked into thinking that God accepts this behavior it states that this is what people were then the were washed with the blood of the lamb.

*1 Corinthians 6:9-11* *****
*9* What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? *Do not be misled. Neither fornicators*, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, *10* nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. *11* *And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean,* but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.​


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## naughteegirl (Mar 9, 2005)

I read your post and note that you are referring to unmarried people. Honestly it also confuses me. I personally do believe that sex should be saved till you are married and enjoyed within that union. I also know from my sister who is married that you can love sex and still withstand the urge to give into the temptation prior to your marriage. 
I think some issues are that some couples feel that they are already as good as married to their mate, and in my culture its also a bit more confusing because we have traditional marriages which to my knowledge do not involve any signing of documents etc. so its basically a tradtional ceremony and afterwards you are considered married. Another issue is where to draw the line ie. is making out ok, is it undue temptation etc.
Its a tough issue. I try not to judge but I must admit that I do really wonder if a person is being honest with themselves if they are consistently (meaning they get their freak on regularly) sexually active and unmarried. However, it is also non of my business and as long as they dont put it out there in everyones face its between them and God. In the same way, if you're a christian and known to gossip, lie, steal, cheat I will also question your sincerety and honesty but like I said I dont feel its my place to judge and I do belive that all sins are equal. Although I think sex also has a lot of consequences that may be avoided by waiting to get married first. jmho
If there is a place in the bible where is says premartial sex is okay within a monogamous relationship, someone pls let me know though.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Mar 9, 2005)

It is not a personal belief to me that sex is for marriage-it's in the Bible. The Bible mentions that premarital sex is the only sin where you sin against yourself. So many folks have conformed to the way the world thinks about premarital sex it is ridiculous. They have actually convinced themselves that they don't need a certificate to be married, as long as they have a 'spiritual union.' Whatever- do it right and stop compromising.

Sorry, I went off tangent a wee bit- I just get tired of people using this biblical issue to fit their wrong doings.


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

I have never had sex but believe me I would love to  
and that time will come for me. But we ALL know the bible and Jesus is against it.  We KNOW what's right and wrong. As for the bible being outdated and our Christian ways not adapting to the times. Don't fall for that girl. God is never changing and if you've noticed this world is anyway the wind blows. They make up their own truth and if you fall for that you will be blowing in the wind just like them. Truth is truth and truth don't change. 

Look at the world and what premarital and adulteress sex has gotten us into we are quite literallly sexing ourselves to death. We have disastrous consequences and we still want to try and make it okay. We have 12 year olds getting pregnant but then we insist that throwing condoms at the problem will make it go away. And the experts are even truthful about condoms. They are not safe. Safer than unprotected sex but not safe. 
Then we see that condoms don't cover and prevent the heavy and deep attachments that come from sex. Yeah we may try and act like we can live a sex in the city life and just have all kinds of sex with no attachment but then look what it's turning us into. We have more and more dating services for older women who can't find men because the men are just getting all the sex they want and women aren't requiring anything in return until they themselves get older and realize what they have been throwing away, God’s precious gift for marriage.  And pretty soon they are the older women and when they are ready to settle down it’s hard to find a suitable man because they are all busy throwing away themselves with any woman who will let them.


I also think that we “train” ourselves before marriage. And if we use sex as simply a way to “get off” and have good time we are continuously devaluing sexual intimacy so that by the time we do get married it is not as special as it should be for us.  A pastor once gave an excellent example.  He had a Styrofoam cup he was drinking out of and he said he sat that Styrofoam cup down many places and didn’t think much of it because he could always get another one. It wasn’t a big deal. But imagine if it was a gold goblets with precious stones in it. Do you think he would just leave it anywhere the same way he did with that Styrofoam cup. No. Only someone who didn’t think much of precious things would leave one laying around.



How much do we think of the precious thing God has given us? How often is it just laid down and left for whomever to take? And when we get married what’s going to make it so much more precious? Because we are having it with our spouse? I think a lot of us would love to think that but something that we have been partying and throwing away doesn’t gain value because we are so romantic or so righteous that we automatically see it differently. Sex will regain it’s value because when we see it through the eyes of God and when we see it for how special it is and if we see it that way in the first place then why would we be having it with someone whom we have not joined ourselves with in the presence of the Lord?


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## options (Mar 9, 2005)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> I'm always shocked by people who claim to be living for Jesus and on fiyah for Him (who are "saved") who also have active sexual lives.  Isn't this a conflict of interest?




Yes, it is.


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## Sweet C (Mar 9, 2005)

Yes, you can absolutely love God and sex, but which do you love more and if you say God, do love sex in the proper context in which he designed it? We all know what the bible says about premarital sex, so its a NO NO. We see the consequences of sex outside of God's covenant (STDs, unwanted pregnancies, stress, heartbreak, etc.). This is what wordly books won't tell you. They see sex as a bargaining chip and means to open a rlp, but they don't say that it is a mean to blind you to the truth of the person you are seeing. We also know what the bible says about marital sex, which is YES YES, and you are not to deny your spouse of it (1 Cor 7:3-7:4). 

The thing about it is that we all sin, and have fallen short of his glory. The problem becomes when we are not trying to get delivered from this sin. You are always going to have some people that are always going to try and justify their actions with all sorts of excuses, but the truth is God's Word still stands.(i.e. there is a reason why the Word says to FLEE sexual immorality [1 Cor 6:18]) You can't let these people deter you from being who God is calling you to be.

Also, we are to under NO circumstances to adapt with the times of the world. We need to be able to communicate to people in their situation and be able to relate in order to minister, but not adapt. Romans 12:2 says And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 9, 2005)

Great replies ladies 

FYI, I was referring to sex outside of marriage.  Believe me, there's nothing wrong with sex in and of itself, and I look forward to that day. . .Sex is good.  God could have come up with a less pleasurable way for men and women to procreate and express their love, but He didn't.  So I just meant sex outside of the union of marriage.  Personally, I believe it's wrong, but I really wanted to see what other people think about those who justify their actions.  

Carry on


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

Yes the responses are on point. I'm glad there is still some sense left in this world. But I must point out that there are supposedly Christian members here who are on another haircare board telling other members that are feeling guilty about pre marital sex that they honestly don’t think God minds if they have sex sometimes before they are married. SOMETIMES? First of all that’s dangerous because if you have a bible and are in your right mind and you are telling people this that is dangerous and GOD warns against those who lead his flock astray.

Second of all it reminds me of the guy who wrote that letter someone posted here that they’d seen a couple of other places, he was talking about how he had AIDS and how he got it from cheating on his girlfriend whom he had had sex with sometimes even though they weren’t married and were both Christian. I think it’s wrong to sometimes have sex with someone and then deny them for long periods of time. You are wetting their appetite and then starving them and that’s not right and it’s bound to create resentment and even more yearning for sex than if you were both abstinent. When you do that you are not quenching the fire you are throwing gasoline on it and people don’t realize that so they continue to call themselves abstinent when they are playing a very dangerous game and just fooling themselves.


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## options (Mar 9, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I must point out that there are supposedly Christian members here who are on another haircare board telling other members that are feeling guilty about pre marital sex that they honestly don’t think God minds if they have sex sometimes before they are married. SOMETIMES? .



Wow. That's incredible. Then again, it is not. The Bible is probably the most widely used tool used to manipulate, water down and justify behaviors and points of view, particularly those that run counter to the Word.


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## zora (Mar 9, 2005)

True, but keep is mind we are all sinners and whether we lie, steal, covet, etc. or have pre-martial sex, we can still love GOD.

Having said that, we should abstain until marriage, but don't question someone's love for God based on their sexual history.


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## Poohbear (Mar 9, 2005)

There's no opinion about it.  God states that sex outside of marriage is wrong. It's a fact. It may seem right to the world "everyone's doing it" "it feels good" "he/she loves me so its okay" "we're not doing it a whole lot of times" or whatever reasons... God forbids it because when you do that, you're not using your temple (your body) for God.  And participating in sexual immorality is sinning against one's own body. 
But once you have had premartial sex, God still forgives you IF you confess your sins and REPENT.  God remembers sins no more!


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## Poohbear (Mar 9, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> True, but keep is mind we are all sinners and whether we lie, steal, covet, etc. or have pre-martial sex, we can still love GOD.
> 
> Having said that, we should abstain until marriage, but don't question someone's love for God based on their sexual history.


 
*I agree... but also keep in mind not to take advantage of God's mercy/grace/forgiveness by sinning just because you know God will forgive you.  *


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 9, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> *I agree... but also keep in mind not to take advantage of God's mercy/grace/forgiveness by sinning just because you know God will forgive you.  *



Great point.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 9, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> But I must point out that there are supposedly Christian members here who are on another haircare board telling other members that are feeling guilty about pre marital sex that they honestly don’t think God minds if they have sex sometimes before they are married. SOMETIMES?




Oops!  Is this subject on the Off Topic board already?  If so, sorry for the double topic post.


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

I must disagree with questioning someone love for God. I do and did. I was talking to this GORGEOUS hapa (half asian/half other) and he's trying to tell me he loves GOD but he doesn't go to church because he knows he does wrong stuff and he doesn't want to hear having pre marital sex is wrong because he doesn't want to stop. I had to question his love for GOD. You are doing something that is wrong you know it's wrong and you continue to do so.
People can say whatever they want and being adults we know not to believe everything someone says (at least I hope we do) we HAVE to go by their actions because that is the true barometer of what’s in their heart. And if someone can say how much they love GOD but their actions show otherwise something is wrong. I believe people when they show me who they are because talk is cheap and actions are priceless.



I also question what they hold dear and important if they claim to love the son of God, a man who was tortured and died for our sins and then try and justify their sin. We all sin but don’t try and justify it. That’s just like a slap in the face of a man who is already dying on a cross.


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## onepraying (Mar 9, 2005)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> Oops!  Is this subject on the Off Topic board already?  If so, sorry for the double topic post.



She is speaking of a whole new haircare forum/board created by a member of LHCF.  

I think we should leave what happens over there, over there....whether we agree with them or not.  The mission over there states a "keeping it real" kind of mentality.    Basically, anything goes.    Which is fine by me.    I just can't be a part of anything such as that.   Just make your choice of whether to hangout there or not.  However, just leave them to their own opinions and beliefs they are entitled to that, hence the creation of that board.

The lamb and sheep will be seperated...


*John 14:15 
   If ye love me, keep my commandments. <----- This speaks for itself whether someone loves him or not.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.*


carry on...

~op~


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

> *John 14:15
> If ye love me, keep my commandments. <----- This speaks for itself whether someone loves him or not.*


 
I like that and I wanted to say that but I don't want someone to think that I think if someone makes a *mistake* they don't love GOD. I think if someone *lives in their mistakes,* they don't truly love GOD. 

That is a judement call but I have found that we have to make judgments. Just as long as we use his ruler we can make them wisely.


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## crml_buttafly (Mar 9, 2005)

what is  supposedly christian?? 

i'm christian, i love the lord with all my heart and soul, he has peformed many amiracle in my life showing his love for me. i make mistakes against his commandments, i repent and move on.


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## ms_kenesha (Mar 9, 2005)

You are REALLY the reason why some people cannot come closer to Christ.  Who are you to judge who is a Christian and who is not?  

Psalm 15:2-3
2 He whose walk is blameless and who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from his heart 
3 and has no slander on his tongue, who does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his fellowman



			
				AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> Yes the responses are on point. I'm glad there is still some sense left in this world. *But I must point out that there are supposedly Christian members here who are on another haircare board telling other members that are feeling guilty about pre marital sex that t**hey honestly don’t think God minds if they have sex sometimes before they are married. SOMETIMES?* First of all that’s dangerous because if you have a bible and are in your right mind and you are telling people this that is dangerous and GOD warns against those who lead his flock astray.


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## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

onepraying said:
			
		

> I think we should leave what happens over there, over there....whether we agree with them or not.



I agree 100%.

It is difficult to walk the walk of a Christian. Sexual sin happens to most of us. I was lost in it for years, so I understand the struggle. I wasn't right with God. It was difficult to go to church, I couldn't praise God, I didn't want to be around the saints, and finally I stopped going all together. But one day, God convicted me, and I haven't been the same since.

The best thing to do for our sisters having a difficult time in this area is to pray for them. Pray that the Holy Spirit will convict them that God has a better plan for their lives.


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

I'm very sorry to hear I'm the reason people cannot come closer to Christ. I will try to work harder so they can come closer to Christ.

And supposedly Christian is a confessing Christian but telling others wrong things. That's what I meant. I think it's wrong to tell people things about God that are contrary to His teachings.

And your verses are right on, mskenesha. Slander and telling lies about someone is very wrong. You shouldn't say people said things that they never said.

For myself I have to judge every person as they come if they say they are a Christian and then don't live in His word I don't consider that person a Christian.  As for who I am to judge. I'm a born again Christian who has a bible and uses that to decide if people who come to me claiming to be of Christ are true. That's all we can use.


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## Poohbear (Mar 9, 2005)

crml_buttafly said:
			
		

> what is supposedly christian??
> 
> i'm christian, i love the lord with all my heart and soul, he has peformed many amiracle in my life showing his love for me. i make mistakes against his commandments, i repent and move on.


*I agree. Being a Christian does not mean Being a Perfect Person.  A Christian is someone who believes in their heart that Jesus is Lord and Savior and that He's the Son of God who died for our sins on the Cross to take the punishment for our sins.  All have fallen short of God's glory (all have sin).  We are all made in God's image and once we are in Christ, we are seen as "perfect" in his eyes.  When we ask for forgiveness and repent, He washes away our sins and remembers those sins no more!  And that's a blessing! *


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## onepraying (Mar 9, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I like that and I wanted to say that but I don't want someone to think that I think if someone makes a *mistake* they don't love GOD. I think if someone *lives in their mistakes,* they don't truly love GOD.
> 
> That is a judgment call but I have found that we have to make judgments. Just as long as we use his ruler we can make them wisely.




*We don't have to speak those judgements against folks.  We aren't to landblast people and stick our fingers in their faces. 

The bible says we judge them by their FRUIT.  Also, bitter and sweet water can't come from the same fountain and so on.....  Our judgment shouldn't be a judgment of condemnation, but one of finality of decision.   Bascially an asessement of them and how we are to interact with them or how we are to associate ourselves in regards to them and their behavior....the Bible still says, "evil communication corrupt good manners" (paraphrasing..again   )

Someone can tell me they love God, live for God, etc. .....all day long, but I don't have to argue with them about it.  They simply live the life which is in their heart.  I, in turn, SEE that life.  Does that life line up to or is it going toward a life of Christ, like it is laid out in the Word of God?

Jesus said(paraphrasing), that which goes in doesn't defile the man,  but that which comes out defiles the man.*


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## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

*Let me remind everyone that this is the Christianity forum, and I will not allow the nasty behavior of the general forum to come in here. I'm just going to edit and/or delete posts. If there is a personal dispute between members, take it to pm, but keep this conversation neutral! You have been advised!*


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## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

onepraying said:
			
		

> *We don't have to speak those judgements against folks.  We aren't to landblast people and stick our fingers in their faces.
> 
> The bible says we judge them by their FRUIT.  Also, bitter and sweet water can't come from the same fountain and so on.....  Our judgment shouldn't be a judgment of condemnation, but one of finality of decision.   Bascially an asessement of them and how we are to interact with them or how we are to associate ourselves in regards to them and their behavior....the Bible still says, "evil communication corrupt good manners" (paraphrasing..again   )
> 
> ...



Very well said!


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## ms_kenesha (Mar 9, 2005)

NO ONE comes 100% to living a "Christian" life style. So in your book no one would be able to be a true Christian in your judgement. And God doesn't grade our sins on the curve, so just because you are not having sex now, doesn't mean you aren't doing a lot of other things that are displeasing to God.

* I hope that this is okay.





			
				AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> For myself I have to judge every person as they come if they say they are a Christian and then don't live in His word I don't consider that person a Christian. As for who I am to judge. I'm a born again Christian who has a bible and uses that to decide if people who come to me claiming to be of Christ are true. That's all we can use.


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## Poohbear (Mar 9, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> And supposedly Christian is a confessing Christian but telling others wrong things. That's what I meant. I think it's wrong to tell people things about God that are contrary to His teachings.


 *I agree...*



			
				AnneDriena_ said:
			
		

> For myself I have to judge every person as they come if they say they are a Christian and then don't live in His word I don't consider that person a Christian. As for who I am to judge. I'm a born again Christian who has a bible and uses that to decide if people who come to me claiming to be of Christ are true. That's all we can use.



*...but you should be careful when you say this... just because you are a virgin doesn't mean you're any better or any more righteous than any other Christian (just to let you know, I'm a virgin myself!)  *

*And like one_praying said, you do not have to openly speak against someone when you judge if it's going to cause confusion or discord. You should go to that person privately and tell what you think they said or did was wrong. Telling members over here in this forum isn't going to help the situation get better.*


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

*We don't have to speak those judgements against folks. I was just making my point clear about why I feel a certain way because I was asked. That may be speaking judgment agains someone but (and I'm not trying to be funny) this is the internet and speaking is the only way I could partake in the discussion when someone asked me what supposedly Christian is.*
*We aren't to landblast people and stick our fingers in their faces. *

*The bible says we judge them by their FRUIT. Also, bitter and sweet water can't come from the same fountain and so on..... Our judgment shouldn't be a judgment of condemnation, I can't condemn anyone I'm not GOD and don't wish to be I hope my explaination of why I consider someone to be Christian or not wasn't seen as condemnation but that is how I protect myself and keep people from putting one over on me. but one of finality of decision. Bascially an asessement of them and how we are to interact with them or how we are to associate ourselves in regards to them and their behavior....the Bible still says, "evil communication **corrupt good manners" (paraphrasing..again  )*

*Someone can tell me they love God, live for God, etc. .....all day long, but I don't have to argue with them about it. They simply live the life which is in their heart. I, in turn, SEE that life. Does that life line up to or is it going toward a life of Christ, like it is laid out in the Word of God?*

*Jesus said(paraphrasing), that which goes in doesn't defile the man, but that which comes out defiles the man.*


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

Oh no, I don't think I'm anymore righteous than anyone else because I'm a virgin, so don't take it that way. We were discussing sexual sin so that's what I was talking about.


As for no one living a %100 Christian lifestyle, that's what I thought I made clear in the post that I didn't want to make it seem like making a mistake makes you not Christian. I thought I said that in the previous post but If I didn’t I want to make that clear now. I don’t think making mistakes, sin (which we all do) makes you not a Christian.  I myself have to use the bible and compare it to people who say they are Christian to judge for myself whether to take them as a Christian. 
And with my Christian friends I give them greater access into my life and put more weight in their opinions and things like that. Not that I haven’t got good advice from non-Christians but I basically raised myself and have had to be very careful of the people I let speak into my life. That’s why and how I judge for myself whether someone is Christian or not. Just taking them at their word is fine if you want and at first, hey, let's face it, that's all we have.


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## zora (Mar 9, 2005)

I think I'm missing something in this thread, cuz it seems to be getting personal.

Anyway, ditto on what Poohbear and One_praying said.


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## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> Oh no, I don't think I'm anymore righteous than anyone else because I'm a virgin, so don't take it that way. We were discussing sexual sin so that's what I was talking about.
> 
> 
> As for no one living a %100 Christian lifestyle, that's what I thought I made clear in the post that I didn't want to make it seem like making a mistake makes you not Christian. I thought I said that in the previous post but If I didn’t I want to make that clear now. I don’t think making mistakes, sin (which we all do) makes you not a Christian.  I myself have to use the bible and compare it to people who say they are Christian to judge for myself whether to take them as a Christian.
> And with my Christian friends I give them greater access into my life and put more weight in their opinions and things like that. Not that I haven’t got good advice from non-Christians but I basically raised myself and have had to be very careful of the people I let speak into my life. That’s why and how I judge for myself whether someone is Christian or not. Just taking them at their word is fine if you want and at first, hey, let's face it, that's all we have.



Sweetie, let me tell you something; Christians sin, all of us fall short of God's glory. Some may do it blatantly in your face, and others may be very good at hiding it. Some commit very big sins, others tell little white lies, but make no mistake, no one is walking upright as the Lord wants us to do. That's why we have Jesus to save us from ourselves.

I tell people all the time, don't put any Christian up on a pedastal. Not one! They will disappoint you, and if you weren't expecting it, that can cause you to stumble in your walk with God. Look to the perfection of Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross. That's the *only* thing that's 100% trustworthy.


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## Poohbear (Mar 9, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> Oh no, I don't think I'm anymore righteous than anyone else because I'm a virgin, so don't take it that way. We were discussing sexual sin so that's what I was talking about.
> 
> 
> As for no one living a %100 Christian lifestyle, that's what I thought I made clear in the post that I didn't want to make it seem like making a mistake makes you not Christian. I thought I said that in the previous post but If I didn’t I want to make that clear now. I don’t think making mistakes, sin (which we all do) makes you not a Christian. I myself have to use the bible and compare it to people who say they are Christian to judge for myself whether to take them as a Christian.
> And with my Christian friends I give them greater access into my life and put more weight in their opinions and things like that. Not that I haven’t got good advice from non-Christians but I basically raised myself and have had to be very careful of the people I let speak into my life. That’s why and how I judge for myself whether someone is Christian or not. Just taking them at their word is fine if you want and at first, hey, let's face it, that's all we have.


Okay. I understand you a lil' bit better.


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## crml_buttafly (Mar 9, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> *Let me remind everyone that this is the Christianity forum, and I will not allow the nasty behavior of the general forum to come in here. I'm just going to edit and/or delete posts. If there is a personal dispute between members, take it to pm, but keep this conversation neutral! You have been advised!*


 
pebbles i wasnt looking to start anything. i wanted clarification on what a "supposed christian" is
i was looking for clarification for me and only ME.



> Sweetie, let me tell you something; Christians sin, all of us fall short of God's glory. Some may do it blatantly in your face, and others may be very good at hiding it. Some commit very big sins, others tell little white lies, but make no mistake, no one is walking upright as the Lord wants us to do. That's why we have Jesus to save us from ourselves.
> 
> Look to the perfection of Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross. That's the *only* thing that's 100% trustworthy.


 
ita with this


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Sweetie, let me tell you something; Christians sin, all of us fall short of God's glory. Some may do it blatantly in your face, and others may be very good at hiding it. Some commit very big sins, others tell little white lies, but make no mistake, no one is walking upright as the Lord wants us to do. That's why we have Jesus to save us from ourselves.
> 
> I tell people all the time, don't put any Christian up on a pedastal. Not one! They will disappoint you, and if you weren't expecting it, that can cause you to stumble in your walk with God. Look to the perfection of Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross. That's the *only* thing that's 100% trustworthy.


 
I agree. I wouldn't know about things that people don't show me. It just seems people took how I view the things that people do show me the wrong way. So I wanted to clarify that. And I don't think anyone is walking 100 percent with the Lord, like I said in regards to kenesha's post. I didn't want to make it seem like that was my standard. I just wanted people to know I know everyone makes mistakes and I don't think someone is a terrible person no matter how big or small their mistakes. If that was the case I would be a horrible person with all the mistakes I've made. And I don't think I'm perfect but I don't think I'm horrible. Or anybody else who makes mistakes is horrible. I didn't want people to think that. Hope I clarified it.

I really don't want to seem like a muckracker and i know what you mean pebbles when you say you don't want this thread to go a certain way but I think it's okay to disagree even as Christians as long as it doesn't get down and dirty. I don't like to argue per say but if someone doesn't agree or seems to twist an opinion or misquote where someone is coming from I think it's good to discuss. But don't take this as an I love to fight thing.


----------



## ms_kenesha (Mar 9, 2005)

I agree.  I also think it's bad when people make a narrow definition of sex to suit their own religious agenda.  For instance _DeLeon Richards_.





			
				Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> It is not a personal belief to me that sex is for marriage-it's in the Bible. The Bible mentions that premarital sex is the only sin where you sin against yourself. So many folks have conformed to the way the world thinks about premarital sex it is ridiculous. They have actually convinced themselves that they don't need a certificate to be married, as long as they have a 'spiritual union.' Whatever- do it right and stop compromising.
> 
> Sorry, I went off tangent a wee bit- I just get tired of people using this biblical issue to fit their wrong doings.


----------



## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

crml_buttafly said:
			
		

> pebbles i wasnt looking to start anything. i wanted clarification on what a "supposed christian" is
> i was looking for clarification for me and only ME.



Oh, I wasn't talking to you.  My post was general. It was starting to get personal in here, and I don't want that to happen.


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

ms_kenesha said:
			
		

> I agree. I also think it's bad when people make a narrow definition of sex to suit their own religious agenda. For instance _DeLeon Richards_.


 
Could you expound on this for me so I don’t get you wrong. What I’m getting is she is the one who made the tape with R.Kelly giving him oral. Did she say that wasn’t sex? Because I know that’s big now. Saying if it isn’t genital to genital contact it isn’t sex. I know that our thoughts count with God too. And I have to be careful with what I watch.  You tell someone you’re a 28 year old virgin and they think you are asexual and don’t have sexual thoughts. But I can I have to stay away from certain things. Hey if you look at it I’m only a physical virgin because my thoughts aren’t pure.


----------



## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

ms_kenesha said:
			
		

> I agree.  I also think it's bad when people make a narrow definition of sex to suit their own religious agenda.  For instance _DeLeon Richards_.



What is a narrow definition of sex? So long as it's within the confines of marriage, all is permissable. And forgive my ignorance, but who is DeLeon Richards? I've never heard of him.


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## Sweet C (Mar 9, 2005)

Ann_Drienna, she is referring to a statement made while on TBN with her husband, Gary, stating that she was a virgin b/f she got married


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## MSee (Mar 9, 2005)

I am glad for this....

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1John 1:9

But I'm kept in line by this.....

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of truth, there remaineth no more sacrifices for sins.  Hebrews 10:26 (down to vs. 31 is on my mind but I'm in a rush)

The topic reminds me of this....

I wrote to you in an epistle not to company with fornicators. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolators, for then must ye needs go out of this world.

But now I have written to you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or an extortioner, with such an one no not to eat.

For what have I to do to jude them that are without? do not ye judge them that are within. 1 corinthians 5: 9-12

Knowing my own failures, I try to live by the passage that says "if our brother is overtaken with a fault to pray for them with a spirit of meekness concidering yourself lest you also be tempted"

God always gives a chance for repentance but I have experienced how persistance in sin (any sin) can break our relationship with God and its a hard road to walk.


----------



## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> Could you expound on this for me so I don’t get you wrong. What I’m getting is she is the one who made the tape with R.Kelly giving him oral. Did she say that wasn’t sex? Because I know that’s big now. Saying if it isn’t genital to genital contact it isn’t sex. I know that our thoughts count with God too. And I have to be careful with what I watch.  You tell someone you’re a 28 year old virgin and they think you are asexual and don’t have sexual thoughts. But I can I have to stay away from certain things. Hey if you look at it I’m only a physical virgin because my thoughts aren’t pure.



DeLeon is a woman? My bad! LOL! 

I wish I had stayed a virgin until I first married. I commend all those who are keeping themselves pure until marriage. It's the right thing to do, according to the word of God, and that's what really matters.


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## Sweet C (Mar 9, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> What is a narrow definition of sex? So long as it's within the confines of marriage, all is permissable. And forgive my ignorance, but who is DeLeon Richards? I've never heard of him.


 
She is a gospel singer.  She goes to Randy and Paula White's church.

Check out the link: http://www.deleonmusic.com/


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## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

Sweet C said:
			
		

> She is a gospel singer.  She goes to Randy and Paula White's church.
> 
> Check out the link: http://www.deleonmusic.com/



Oh, ok. Thanks for the link!


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## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

Millie_C said:
			
		

> I am glad for this....
> 
> If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1John 1:9
> 
> ...



   I've been there too, and it's a very hard place to be in.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Mar 9, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> What is a narrow definition of sex? So long as it's within the confines of marriage, all is permissable. And forgive my ignorance, but who is DeLeon Richards? I've never heard of him.



Yes you have!! It's a 'she' not a 'he'. Do you remember the little girl who sung
'I'm gonna move on up the mountain,
gonna take the devil down.
Cause he doesn't have a right to be
on a higher ground.
I'm gonna move on up the mountain,
with my shield and my sword
and we will sing sweet victory in the name of the Lord.'


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## melodee (Mar 9, 2005)

ms_kenesha said:
			
		

> I agree. I also think it's bad when people make a narrow definition of sex to suit their own religious agenda. For instance _DeLeon Richards_.


 
I agree w/ Kenesha.  There are some believers who judge single parents or those who have had abortions, but they themselves have had premarital sex.  In Gods eyes it's all sin.


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## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Yes you have!! It's a 'she' not a 'he'. Do you remember the little girl who sung
> 'I'm gonna move on up the mountain,
> gonna take the devil down.
> Cause he doesn't have a right to be
> ...



Oh yeah! Ok, I know who she is.


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## MrsQueeny (Mar 9, 2005)

This is a great topic.  They had a similar one brought up on the local radio station here.  The girl and her boyfriend called in because they both came from religious homes and did not know how to tell their parents that they would be living together.  This one caller called in and said she is religious too and has 2 kids out of wedlock but that she feels GOD will be okay with it because she is happy.  So her advice to them was to do what made them happy.  I almost crashed listening to this garbage.  I wanted to call and say it does not say anywhere in the bible that it is okay to live in sin as long as you are happy.  Also, I don't question how religious or spiritual a person is but there is a spriture (can't think of the exact quote) but it states that GOD would rather you be hot or cold because if you are lukewarm, HE will spew you out of his mouth.  

I too wish I would have waited until I was married.  Fortunately, I am the only woman my husband has been with and he is very proud of that.  Having sex before marriage messes with you not only spiritually but mentally.  Thankfully through GOD we can began anew and put the old things in the past.  The one sermon that really helped me with it was "No More Sheets" by Juanita Bynaum.  That really explained a lot of stuff I was dealing with because of past sexual issues.  Once I "divorced" myself from my previous partners, I was able to meet and marry my husband.

For those of you who may be dealing with guilt about sex like I did for a long time.  I could not forgive myself and even felt like I was not worthy of my husband (the devil is a liar), just know that if GOD can forgive you then you can forgive yourself.  The devil will use anything he can to try to keep you from reaching your spiritual potential and that is one trick he uses a lot with women.  Don't be mad he is just doing his job so you have to do yours and defeat him!!!  Okay I know I talk too much but I just love to share and encourage others.  Take care Q


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

melodee said:
			
		

> I agree w/ Kenesha. There are some believers who judge single parents or those who have had abortions, but they themselves have had premarital sex. In Gods eyes it's all sin.


 
Can you explain to me what you mean by they judge? What I take judge to mean in the secular world is if you take a situation and you decide by your own standards it's wrong.
What I take judge to mean in the biblical standard is comparing it to Gods word. Like for example if I was to judge gays in the secular world I would say, go head love who you want but in the bible God has judged it to be an abomination so I have to go with him on that and so that makes it wrong in secular and biblical for me.
How do mean people judge single parents and people who had abortions? And for single parents that's such a mixed bag they may have been married when they had the kid and then divorced, you know how that is?


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## cybra (Mar 9, 2005)

God, himself, said King David was a man after his own heart. However, not only did David have sex outside his own marriage, he murdered the husband of the woman (Bathsheba) to cover up the consequences of that sin (he had impregnated her).  But what did God do?  Because he knew David had a true desire to live for him, he did not allow him to continue in sin.  God sent Nathan to confront David about what he had done.  But the difference between David and many you will encounter in this world, when God confronted David about his sin, through Nathan, David immediately repented of his sin.  People today, instead of acknowledging that what they are doing is wrong, they will justify and try and explain it away.  Then there's the whole issue of us [Christians]  not being bound by the law of the old testament.  But Romans 6:15 (New testament) says, "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."  We are bound by the grace of Christ and his commandments. And if you truly look at the bible, much of what's in the old testament is in the new testament.  So, God does hold us to many of the laws given to Moses. But in order to do the sinful things in their hearts, many try to find ways of going around what is in the bible.  For example, I once had someone ask my how could I say it is "unnatura"l for two men or two women to experience sexual love towards each other.  Mind you, this was a Christian who asked me this.  But when I told the person it was not me who said it but the Lord himself in Romans 1:27, where he says, "...leaving the NATURAL use of the women..., the person admitted she had never read that before.  Yet, even after reading it, she felt it was still okay since she did "love the Lord."  God said if you love me you'll keep my commandments.  If we knowingly and voluntarily continune to sin, then do we truly love God?

However, as someone indicated, "sin is sin" and it all stinks in the nostrils of God.  But if you claim yourself to be a child of God, and he confronts you with YOUR sin in some way (like with this very discussion), it would behoove you to realize when the Spirit of God is warning you of your ways.  Like David, you need to stop and repent.  David did not stop and point our how others in his kingdom were doing the same thing, nor did he compare his sin to the sins of others. He didn't even use "human nature" as an excuse for his sin...he gave no excuse because there was none.  Maybe God has not confronted those lost sheep still in the world about how they are straying from his will.  But, it is not for you to compare yourself to, the main thing here is, IS GOD BRINGING SOMETHING TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT A SIN  IN YOUR LIFE?  We, being sanctified, cannot compare what we do to what those in the in the world are doing.  

But all of you keep in mind, the Bible tells us there are plenty who will claim Jesus but deny the power thereof.  Meaning, many people will call themselves Christians but act as though Christ does not have the power to keep them from sinning; Their behaviors convey anything but the renewing of their spirit through Christ.  Many coming in the name of Jesus will act as though the influences of Satan on their lives (sinning) is more powerful than the power of blood the of Christ in their lives (stop sinning).  However, to sit and argue over God's word with such is futile. God doesn't call us to support, give evidence to it's validity, or push his word...his word can stand for itself.  We are simply to spread his gospel as is.  Yet, as with the parable of the sower there will come times when your message will fall on deaf ears, rocks, so nothing will sink in and the person you share the truth of the gospel with will continue believing and acting in worldly ways.  Some of whom may call themselves "his sheep."  Do not grieve yourself over such, a reprobate mind is something God does to those who will not adhere to his word and will.  It is foolish to hold a conversation or argue with such a person, they will never hear you.

Well, I could go on for days when it comes to the Lord, but I've said enough   I pray that all who read these threads will truly consider how they may be being decieved by Satan into believing their sinful ways are "okay" with God as they say they love him.  You must choose who you will serve.  God bless and keep you all.


----------



## Bublnbrnsuga (Mar 9, 2005)

Cyba, Oh My Lord!!! Yeah!!!!! You Are Here!!!


----------



## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

cybra said:
			
		

> God, himself, said King David was a man after his own heart. However, not only did David have sex outside his own marriage, he murdered the husband of the woman (Bathsheba) to cover up the consequences of that sin (he had impregnated her).  But what did God do?  Because he knew David had a true desire to live for him, he did not allow him to continue in sin.  God sent Nathan to confront David about what he had done.  But the difference between David and many you will encounter in this world, when God confronted David about his sin, through Nathan, David immediately repented of his sin.  People today, instead of acknowledging that what they are doing is wrong, they will justify and try and explain it away.  Then there's the whole issue of us [Christians]  not being bound by the law of the old testament.  But Romans 6:15 (New testament) says, "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."  We are bound by the grace of Christ and his commandments. And if you truly look at the bible, much of what's in the old testament is in the new testament.  So, God does hold us to many of the laws given to Moses. But in order to do the sinful things in their hearts, many try to find ways of going around what is in the bible.  For example, I once had someone ask my how could I say it is "unnatura"l for two men or two women to experience sexual love towards each other.  Mind you, this was a Christian who asked me this.  But when I told the person it was not me who said it but the Lord himself in Romans 1:27, where he says, "...leaving the NATURAL use of the women..., the person admitted she had never read that before.  Yet, even after reading it, she felt it was still okay since she did "love the Lord."  God said if you love me you'll keep my commandments.  If we knowingly and voluntarily continune to sin, then do we truly love God?
> 
> However, as someone indicated, "sin is sin" and it all stinks in the nostrils of God.  But if you claim yourself to be a child of God, and he confronts you with YOUR sin in some way (like with this very discussion), it would behoove you to realize when the Spirit of God is warning you of your ways.  Like David, you need to stop and repent.  David did not stop and point our how others in his kingdom were doing the same thing, nor did he compare his sin to the sins of others. He didn't even use "human nature" as an excuse for his sin...he gave no excuse because there was none.  Maybe God has not confronted those lost sheep still in the world about how they are straying from his will.  But, it is not for you to compare yourself to, the main thing here is, IS GOD BRINGING SOMETHING TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT A SIN  IN YOUR LIFE?  We, being sanctified, cannot compare what we do to what those in the in the world are doing.
> 
> ...



Excellent post!!


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 9, 2005)

Great post cybra. Someone was just telling me about your posts and how much you bring to the table and she was right. 

I'm glad you made the point about satans control over us and it being such a strong influence. I have to check myself on it and whether or not I'm falling back on the "flesh" excuse sometimes myself. I think the david example was excellent I know a lot of Christian women I look up are not perfect but I do use them as examples in daily life and it's good to see Christian behavior modeled for me through these women.


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## cybra (Mar 9, 2005)

You know, as much as I love to hear someone's life has been challenged or touched by what I say, please know, God is the true speaker in my life.  I live my life simply to be used by him in any way he sees fit.  I am just so thankful that Pebbles notified me of this thread. God has taught and trained me for 33 years on his ways.  But, he didn't do so that I should keep it to myself, his word and wisdom needs to be shared with others.  But I, too, have truly been blessed by things I have read on this forum and to see how God's children are standing strong for our Lord.  I just want to shout when I see I'm not in this battle alone and that God has all his children on one accord  I just thank and praise him for his goodness!!!!


----------



## pebbles (Mar 9, 2005)

cybra said:
			
		

> You know, as much as I love to hear someone's life has been challenged or touched by what I say, please know, God is the true speaker in my life.  I live my life simply to be used by him in any way he sees fit.



Let me tell you, God is truly using you mightily, and it shows! You are such a blessing to this forum!


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## cybra (Mar 9, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Let me tell you, God is truly using you mightily, and it shows! You are such a blessing to this forum!



Right back at'cha


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## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

I honestly don't understand how someone can think that God is ok with them having sex out of marriage. I'm not a virgin and don't pretend to be perfect, BUT I knew good and well what I was doing. I took the guilt with it also. I also left the church, and for the short time I was there I refused to serve. I knew if I died that night I'd be going straight to hell. I don't understand how people can justify it, and say God loves them to much to keep them from having sex. Sex is so much more than what people realize which is why God doesn't want us to have it outside of marriage.  I think people don't know that not only do we live in the physical realm, there is also a spirtual realm out there, you open so many doors when you start having sex. It can  destroy you.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

Doesn't God say if you love him you will OBEY him.  I'll have to look for that. FIrst let me read the whole thread. 


			
				zora said:
			
		

> True, but keep is mind we are all sinners and whether we lie, steal, covet, etc. or have pre-martial sex, we can still love GOD.
> 
> Having said that, we should abstain until marriage, but don't question someone's love for God based on their sexual history.


----------



## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

Wait... What? Hey if this thread was started to talk about a different board, I apologize. I had no idea. 



			
				classimami713 said:
			
		

> Oops! Is this subject on the Off Topic board already? If so, sorry for the double topic post.


----------



## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> *I agree... but also keep in mind not to take advantage of God's mercy/grace/forgiveness by sinning just because you know God will forgive you.  *


 Not only that. God is a just God.  So whatever consequence comes with that sin, it isll still come to you, regardless if you asked for forgiveness.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

I totally agree. 





			
				Poohbear said:
			
		

> *I agree...*
> 
> [/color]
> *...but you should be careful when you say this... just because you are a virgin doesn't mean you're any better or any more righteous than any other Christian (just to let you know, I'm a virgin myself!)  *
> ...


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## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

Very well said. 





			
				pebbles said:
			
		

> Sweetie, let me tell you something; Christians sin, all of us fall short of God's glory. Some may do it blatantly in your face, and others may be very good at hiding it. Some commit very big sins, others tell little white lies, but make no mistake, no one is walking upright as the Lord wants us to do. That's why we have Jesus to save us from ourselves.
> 
> I tell people all the time, don't put any Christian up on a pedastal. Not one! They will disappoint you, and if you weren't expecting it, that can cause you to stumble in your walk with God. Look to the perfection of Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross. That's the *only* thing that's 100% trustworthy.


----------



## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

Do you mean when they say things like, they only do anal or have oral sex and it is ok?  Or they are still a virgin but had an affair with a woman?   



I'm not talking about anyone here. I am referring to a few members of my own church that I have an issue with. 





			
				ms_kenesha said:
			
		

> I agree. I also think it's bad when people make a narrow definition of sex to suit their own religious agenda. For instance _DeLeon Richards_.


----------



## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I know that our thoughts count with God too. And I have to be careful with what I watch. You tell someone you’re a 28 year old virgin and they think you are asexual and don’t have sexual thoughts. But I can I have to stay away from certain things. Hey if you look at it I’m only a physical virgin because my thoughts aren’t pure.


 I was just going to ask about this.


----------



## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

Millie_C said:
			
		

> I am glad for this....
> 
> 
> Knowing my own failures, I try to live by the passage that says "if our brother is overtaken with a fault to pray for them with a spirit of meekness concidering yourself lest you also be tempted"


 I like this.  Where is this?


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## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

We had an Apostle at our church last week who just said this.  He said we all forget we have the holy spirit in us.  

You always post excellent points. Thank you. I can tell you are a true woman of God. 





			
				cybra said:
			
		

> But all of you keep in mind, the Bible tells us there are plenty who will claim Jesus but deny the power thereof.  Meaning,* many people will call themselves Christians but act as though Christ does not have the power to keep them from sinning;* Their behaviors convey anything but the renewing of their spirit through Christ. Many coming in the name of Jesus will act as though the influences of Satan on their lives (sinning) is more powerful than the power of blood the of Christ in their lives (stop sinning). However, to sit and argue over God's word with such is futile. God doesn't call us to support, give evidence to it's validity, or push his word...his word can stand for itself. We are simply to spread his gospel as is. Yet, as with the parable of the sower there will come times when your message will fall on deaf ears, rocks, so nothing will sink in and the person you share the truth of the gospel with will continue believing and acting in worldly ways. Some of whom may call themselves "his sheep." Do not grieve yourself over such, a reprobate mind is something God does to those who will not adhere to his word and will. It is foolish to hold a conversation or argue with such a person, they will never hear you.
> 
> Well, I could go on for days when it comes to the Lord, but I've said enough  I pray that all who read these threads will truly consider how they may be being decieved by Satan into believing their sinful ways are "okay" with God as they say they love him. You must choose who you will serve. God bless and keep you all.


----------



## Honeyhips (Mar 9, 2005)

cybra, I know you aren't perfect, and I know it is God speaking through you, but I still thank God for your wisdom and allowing him to speak through you. You could just as easily not share what God is saying. Not only are you wise, but you are always fair and objective. 


			
				cybra said:
			
		

> You know, as much as I love to hear someone's life has been challenged or touched by what I say, please know, God is the true speaker in my life. I live my life simply to be used by him in any way he sees fit. I am just so thankful that Pebbles notified me of this thread. God has taught and trained me for 33 years on his ways. But, he didn't do so that I should keep it to myself, his word and wisdom needs to be shared with others. But I, too, have truly been blessed by things I have read on this forum and to see how God's children are standing strong for our Lord. I just want to shout when I see I'm not in this battle alone and that God has all his children on one accord  I just thank and praise him for his goodness!!!!


----------



## cybra (Mar 9, 2005)

HH, thank you so very much for your words of encouragement.  One thing the Savior has taught me, we don't have to go around wearing a badge that says, "I'm a Christian," our spiritual walk and the power of the Holy Spirit through us when we talk is our testimony.  I hope you all keep me in prayer, I'm determined to continue to completely live for my Savior untiil he calls me home.

I will definatley keep you sisters in prayer.  You truly touch my life too...and I hope you all know it.


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## MSee (Mar 10, 2005)

Honeyhips it is a principle I got from a combination of verses God had put in my way to expose prideful criticising of others (He is still dealing with me. But I'm learning to pray first and admonish only as He leads. I've still failed sometimes, I have a quick toungue when it comes to the things of God)

Bretheren, if a man be overtaken by a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.  Galatians 6:1 

 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is is a sin unto death, I do not say that he shall pray for it. 
All unrighteousness is sin and there is a sin not unto death.   1 John 5:16, 17

Cybra you are blessed with insite. You have reiterated a part of a message I just heard from TD Jakes on my way to work (Fortunately stuck behind a slow moving vehicle ). He was talking about strongholds in a christian's life and how it can severly affect your destiny. One thing stuck with me, 'you can't conquer what you don't confront.' Too many of us are held powerless by things we put above our passion for God and this is a serious disease to the body of Christ. (Not to mention seared conscienses justifying with scipture and all). 

He talked about how he had to overcome a stronghold which he was suppsedly delivered from in a former church. It wasn't until he got a word from his spiritual father that helped him realise that he needed to stop calling it a 'little struggle' and wage war against it.

For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Peter 4:17

Queeny thanks so much for your transparency. We need that to help oneanother in this fight of faith and to get souls saved.

Got to run.


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## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Not only that. God is a just God. So whatever consequence comes with that sin, it will still come to you, regardless if you asked for forgiveness.


I know...that's true too! Thanks for your addition to my post!


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## Country gal (Mar 10, 2005)

This is a struggle for me. I struggle with this concept because I am in the world. It seems predated. I am currently praticing celibacy. It is a challenge. I know what the word says. I feel that a lot of sisters struggle with asbtaining from sex. I think this is where some of us tune out because we struggle with this issue and sometimes don't feel you get the support. As the original poster said, we all struggle with our walk. For some christians this is a challenge. I think you can love God and out of your love for God you fight the temptation to have sex. But the urges are still there and strong.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 10, 2005)

I think we have to remember that the God in us is stronger than sin. You can ask him to take anything away. Going through with sex is a conscious decision. We have to control the thoughts in our mind. Christians are not a group of mansy pansy weak people. 

This isn't directly related, but an example of calling on God. I have a male friend in church, and I love his friendship. It is a genuine brother/sister relationship, and I love how much he loves my Mother. (I always said she needed a son). He is a true gentleman. The kind of guy that if you drop something he'll pick it up faster than you can, if you need anything moved or stuff taken out to your car he'll do it. Keep in mind he is like this with everyone. So it surprised me when all of a sudden folks were coming up to me, back to back, asking if I liked him and could I see myself married to him. They planted a seed that was never there before and I ran with it. I started thinking about him in that way, and started noticing how cute he was, and would get disappointed if I didn't see him in service. Like I was going to church to see him and not God. Things even began to get uncomfortable between us. We would walk past each other and NOT speak. I finally said to God, ok take this these thoughts away from me b/c I know they are not from you, and it is not your desire for me to be married right now or to be with him. He did it instantly. Anytime a thought comes up, I cancel it before it can fester. I had to do the same things with some of my sexual issues. I just decided, I won't do that. If thought comes up, I say I don't want to think that or participate in that. 

 I think God loves us he doesn't want us to have premarittal sex for a reason. His word will always stand regardless of what era the world is in. It is timeless. Jesus was also in the world and did not have sex. I've seen some passages that could be describing the world today. It left me in awe. There is no way you can love premarital sex and God. What also helped me is to not only stay focused on God, but understand the spirtual ramifications of sex, and understand the doors and curses I will be allowing into my life. I had to do the same thing with reading astrology. I also had to stop looking at certain things.


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## pebbles (Mar 10, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I think we have to remember that the God in us is stronger than sin. You can ask him to take anything away. Going through with sex is a conscious decision. We have to control the thoughts in our mind. Christians are not a group of mansy pansy weak people.
> 
> This isn't directly related, but an example of calling on God. I have a male friend and church, and I love his friendship. It is a genuine brother/sister relationship, and I love how much he loves my Mother. (I always said she needed a son). He is a true gentleman. The kind of guy that if you drop something he'll pick it up faster than you can, if you need anything moved or stuff taken out to your care he'll do it. Keep in mind he is like this with everyone. All of a sudden folks were coming up to me back to back and asking if I liked him and could see myself married to him. They planted a seed that was never there before and I ran with it. I started thinking about him in that way, and started noticing how cute he was, and would get disappointed if I didn't see him. Things even began to get uncomfortable between us. I finally said to God, ok take this these thoughts away from me b/c I know they are not from you, and it is not your desire for me to be married right now. He did it instantly. Anytime a thought comes up, I cancel it before it can fester. I had to do the same things with some of my sexual issues. I just decided, I won't do that. If thought comes up, I say I don't want to think that or participate in that.
> 
> I think God loves us he doesn't want us to have premarittal sex for a reason. His word will always stand regardless of what era the world is in. It is timeless. Jesus was also in the world and did not have sex. I've seen some passages that could be describing the world today. There is no way you can love premarital sex and God. What also helped me is to not only stay focused on God, but understand the spirtual ramifications of sex, and understand the doors and curses I will be allowing into my life. I had to do the same thing with reading astrology. I also had to stop looking at certain thin gs.



   May God bless you richly for your faithfulness, Honeyhips, in Jesus' name!


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## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2005)

_*Very nice post Honeyhips! *_


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## Honeyhips (Mar 10, 2005)

I got a thumbs up from Pebbles and Poohbear? *fainting* . 
   Seriously though, I'm not being facetious, I wasn't sure how that was going to go over. Thank you ladies.  I appreciate that. 

I also think deliverance will help. If you are like me and hormones can rage during that time of the month. Exercise is a wonderful drug.


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## pebbles (Mar 10, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I got a thumbs up from Pebbles and Poohbear? *fainting* .
> Seriously though, I'm not being facetious, I wasn't sure how that was going to go over. Thank you ladies.  I appreciate that.
> 
> I also think deliverance will help.  If you are like me and hormones can rage during that time of the month. Exercise is a wonderful drug.



Girl, you spoke the truth! I know it's hard to accept, but God does not condone sex outside of marriage. It's hard, and I understand the struggle, but there is no way to sugar coat this. There is a spiritual bond and a covenant being formed in all sexual unions, and that is why God doesn't want us to just have covenant with anybody. You take on things from the other person you never intended, then have to spend years getting freed from that mess.  People really don't believe that, but it's true! When I was lost in sexual sin, I got to a point I stopped going to church, and I couldn't worship or be with the saints either, but Thank God for JESUS!


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## Honeyhips (Mar 10, 2005)

Thank you ma'am.  But you know I can't take all the credit.


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## MSee (Mar 10, 2005)

I truly appreciate hearing sisters not only saying what to do, but also showing how they have done it and talking about overcoming. Good sex indeed rivals any drug, but not only can God keep us from falling, He can also pick us up and make us whole again when we have fell, as long as we are willing to truly repent. 

Many of the post reminds me of a fact that I would like anyone who is struggling to know, just like physical and emotional maturity doesn't come overnight, neither does spiritual maturity. But we must be willing to accept conviction (this can be as difficult to take as a bitter tonic) and to repent and follow Gods word. Its easy to type but I must confess its not always easy to follow. I've LEARNT to call on the Lord and to keep on calling until He delivers me, just like the widow in the parable in Luke 18. I wish I knew how years ago but now that I do, I must tell others.

Personally, ladies your words have been an encouragement to me.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 10, 2005)

You're right Millie. My problem is always the how. I need a specific examples, and step by step instructions. Spell it out like I'm slow. 

I also need to learn how to relate a scripture to all areas of my life. For instance there is a scripture that says How can two be together if they don't agree. I always thought this was for married couples and household decisions, or a believer marrying a non believer. I didn't realize until a friend told me that it also relates to when people (friends, bosses, boyfriends and etc) say positive things about you and your ability and you say no I can't do that. Well how can I expect to move forward with that person if don't believe what they say? It was so simple, but hit me like a ton of breaks. 

I also had to learn what it means to give things to God. I would say in my head or a prayer, ok God, I give it to you. But I would NEVER say, what I was feeling. I would never admit that I was sad, upset, disappointed, hurt, confused, or angry. Like dealing with my issues with my ex. I kept telling God to take away all feelings and thoughts and I kept trying to analyze what went wrong. As soon as I admitted to God I was hurt, everything was taken away. Same thing happened when it came time for me to forgive people. I also had to admit when it was hard for me and say that I could do it with God's grace.

Ok, sorry to go off topic.


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## stcsweet (Mar 10, 2005)

Yes...I'm a 'nerd'....

This reference below is just an FYI. It's not meant to degrade, just to inform.

This was taken from www.carm.org, which is a great resource to share facts about several topics that we as Christians are faced with.

BTW, after reading this, I forgot that Song of Solomon is a great biblical 'romance novel'.



> *What is the biblical purpose of sex?*​
> 
> The biblical purpose of sex is multifaceted.  God has given sex to us as a means of glorifying Him as we fulfill its design for procreation, intimacy, comfort, and physical pleasure.  It is a fulfillment of God's created order in marriage between a husband and wife.
> 
> ...


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Mar 11, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I think we have to remember that the God in us is stronger than sin. You can ask him to take anything away. Going through with sex is a conscious decision. We have to control the thoughts in our mind. Christians are not a group of mansy pansy weak people.
> 
> This isn't directly related, but an example of calling on God. I have a male friend in church, and I love his friendship. It is a genuine brother/sister relationship, and I love how much he loves my Mother. (I always said she needed a son). He is a true gentleman. The kind of guy that if you drop something he'll pick it up faster than you can, if you need anything moved or stuff taken out to your car he'll do it. Keep in mind he is like this with everyone. So it surprised me when all of a sudden folks were coming up to me, back to back, asking if I liked him and could I see myself married to him. They planted a seed that was never there before and I ran with it. I started thinking about him in that way, and started noticing how cute he was, and would get disappointed if I didn't see him in service. Like I was going to church to see him and not God. Things even began to get uncomfortable between us. We would walk past each other and NOT speak. I finally said to God, ok take this these thoughts away from me b/c I know they are not from you, and it is not your desire for me to be married right now or to be with him. He did it instantly. Anytime a thought comes up, I cancel it before it can fester. I had to do the same things with some of my sexual issues. I just decided, I won't do that. If thought comes up, I say I don't want to think that or participate in that.
> 
> I think God loves us he doesn't want us to have premarittal sex for a reason. His word will always stand regardless of what era the world is in. It is timeless. Jesus was also in the world and did not have sex. I've seen some passages that could be describing the world today. It left me in awe. There is no way you can love premarital sex and God. What also helped me is to not only stay focused on God, but understand the spirtual ramifications of sex, and understand the doors and curses I will be allowing into my life. I had to do the same thing with reading astrology. I also had to stop looking at certain things.



Off da chain post! 

Also I would like to add that if you are serious about celibacy,don't allow yourself to watch or read anything that will incite those urges.


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## MrsQueeny (Mar 11, 2005)

Millie_C said:
			
		

> Queeny thanks so much for your transparency. We need that to help oneanother in this fight of faith and to get souls saved.
> 
> Got to run.




No problem, I have finally come to a place in my life where I can openly share and talk about my past sins and be able to help or bless someone else.  It is so refreshing to see there are others who search the word of GOD for truth and not fall into the traps of this world.  GOD bless you all.  Q


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 11, 2005)

I've also learned that developing habits of obedience help. I don't think we should ever be mindless of loving and obeying God, he doesn't want robots.  But for me somethings are automatic. I need to brush up on my delivery habits but for instance when I'm hanging around girls that don't take it too seriously if guys touch them and rub up against them or feel free enough to hug them too much those same guys try that crap with me and it's just second nature to tell them to keep their hands to themselves and to remove myself from the situation. Because I've found when I stay in the situation I find little ways to be vengeful towards touchy feely men, especially if someone I'm attracted to is there and I wouldn't mind a hug  or getting a little closer.  Urges will always come and thank God for them But a plan of attack or defense helps out greatly I have found.


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I've also learned that developing habits of obedience help. I don't think we should ever be mindless of loving and obeying God, he doesn't want robots. But for me somethings are automatic. I need to brush up on my delivery habits but for instance when I'm hanging around girls that don't take it too seriously if guys touch them and rub up against them or feel free enough to hug them too much those same guys try that crap with me and it's just second nature to tell them to keep their hands to themselves and to remove myself from the situation. Because I've found when I stay in the situation I find little ways to be vengeful towards touchy feely men, especially if someone I'm attracted to is there and I wouldn't mind a hug or getting a little closer. Urges will always come and thank God for them But a plan of attack or defense helps out greatly I have found.


From what you said, it just seems like you have more self control when it comes to guys than your friends.  Your friends may see guys touching on them as great or flattering but you have your mind set not to allow that to happen by having more respect for your body.  I applaud you for not yielding to temptation.


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 11, 2005)

Thanks but don't applaud me, girl. sometimes I just want to yield  But the "no he di'nt reflex kicks in and I just want to kick some butt" . Ever have that happen to you? You are tempted but you get distracted by the impulse to think why in the world would he think I would just be good to go like that?


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## Supergirl (Mar 11, 2005)

Great thread chicas!  I know that God knew how powerful sex was and he designed it for the marriage bed ONLY, for a reason.  Just think of all the societal problems that would be non-existent if there were no pre-marital sex.


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## Ayeshia (Mar 11, 2005)

Supergirl said:
			
		

> Just think of all the societal problems that would be non-existent if there were no pre-marital sex.



yeah then I would be nonexistent too  Naw but on a serious point I do think things would be more "controlled" to some extent.


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2005)

Supergirl said:
			
		

> Great thread chicas! I know that God knew how powerful sex was and he designed it for the marriage bed ONLY, for a reason. Just think of all the societal problems that would be non-existent if there were no pre-marital sex.


You know what? You could look at it the other way too...what if God didn't designate sex for marriage only!  Then this world would REALLY be chaotic!


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 12, 2005)

Supergirl said:
			
		

> Great thread chicas!  I know that God knew how powerful sex was and he designed it for the marriage bed ONLY, for a reason.  Just think of all the societal problems that would be non-existent if there were no pre-marital sex.



My sisters spoke a word in this thread!  I hope that it will help some ppl feel convicted about their choices (not just pertaining to sex), especially if they claim to be a *born again Christian.*


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## cocoberry10 (Mar 5, 2006)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I have never had sex but believe me I would love to
> and that time will come for me. But we ALL know the bible and Jesus is against it.  We KNOW what's right and wrong. As for the bible being outdated and our Christian ways not adapting to the times. Don't fall for that girl. God is never changing and if you've noticed this world is anyway the wind blows. They make up their own truth and if you fall for that you will be blowing in the wind just like them. Truth is truth and truth don't change.
> 
> Look at the world and what premarital and adulteress sex has gotten us into we are quite literallly sexing ourselves to death. We have disastrous consequences and we still want to try and make it okay. We have 12 year olds getting pregnant but then we insist that throwing condoms at the problem will make it go away. And the experts are even truthful about condoms. They are not safe. Safer than unprotected sex but not safe.
> ...



I totally agree.  Of course, you can love God and sex...if you are married!  LOL


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## cocoberry10 (Mar 5, 2006)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I have never had sex but believe me I would love to
> and that time will come for me. But we ALL know the bible and Jesus is against it.  We KNOW what's right and wrong. As for the bible being outdated and our Christian ways not adapting to the times. Don't fall for that girl. God is never changing and if you've noticed this world is anyway the wind blows. They make up their own truth and if you fall for that you will be blowing in the wind just like them. Truth is truth and truth don't change.
> 
> Look at the world and what premarital and adulteress sex has gotten us into we are quite literallly sexing ourselves to death. We have disastrous consequences and we still want to try and make it okay. We have 12 year olds getting pregnant but then we insist that throwing condoms at the problem will make it go away. And the experts are even truthful about condoms. They are not safe. Safer than unprotected sex but not safe.
> ...



I totally agree.  Of course, you can love God and sex...if you are married!  LOL


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## fivefoursweetie (Mar 6, 2006)

A lot of the ladies on here made some excellent posts.  Just a couple of things I wanted to briefly touch on though:
1. Being a Christian doesn't mean that you always do the right thing. And sometimes, although we love God, we do the wrong thing. That is why God looks at our heart. Our heart may be bent towards God, but yet we struggle in a particular area.  
2. And just because you disobey his commandments (as we all do regularly) doesn't mean that we don't love Him.
3. I do believe that you can love sex and love God.  But I think as another post alluded to earlier, that it's which one you show greater love for at the moment.  I personally am unmarried, and have experienced sex previously, and I loved having sex.  However, it got to a point when the conviction and guilt was too strong.  I now am practicing celibacy because I love God more at this point and want to be able to love sex in the way that God wants me to.
Sometimes I think that people who haven't had the struggles that someone else have had can be judgemental and non-understanding of that person, and put labels on them, like "non-Christian", and "sinner", etc.  But I believe that labels tend to place walls between us, and keep people from hearing the wonderful saving grace of God almighty.  Additionally, some people feel more comfortable around people who are not in the church because sometimes people in the church are more judgemental and non-understanding.  We need to all learn to show God's love more and be more like Him (that is what he wanted).  Truly think what Jesus would do, and I don't remember him going around labeling people and judging others, although he is the ultimate judge.  Sometimes I think people spend too much time doing God's job, and not worry about their own job of witnessing and striving to be more Christ-like.
God bless all of you.  I love this board, and although I pop in here and there, I am inspired by this board so much   Thank you ladies for allowing to be used of God!!


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## Trini"T" (Mar 10, 2006)

Supergirl said:
			
		

> Just think of all the societal problems that would be non-existent if there were no pre-marital sex.


 This is too true. I like to look at the logic in what the Bible teaches and leaving sex within the constraints of marriage makes sense. If God didn't put any constraints on sex this world would be utter confusion (worse than it is now) and God is not a God of confusion.


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