# I Want Christian Responses to This... 'Thanks in Advance'



## Shimmie (Feb 13, 2011)

*Mods: * This is an *Christian *issue.   Please do not move it into the Political Forum as it will not be received there without opposition and dispute.  Thanks so much.   :Rose:  

I received this from a Maryland Senator in an email message:  

-----------------------------------​
For years I have held the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman.  I have also felt just as strongly that all of our citizens, gay and straight, deserve the same legal rights, benefits, and responsibilities.  

With these thoughts, last Tuesday I walked into our hearing on Same-Sex Marriage promising to keep an open mind, but fairly certain of how I would vote on the issue.

What I witnessed from the opponents of the bill was appalling.  Witness after witness demonized homosexuals, vilified the gay community, and described gays and lesbians as pedophiles.  I believe that sexual orientation is not a choice, but rather people are born one way or another.  The proponents of the bill were straightforward in wanting to be simply treated as everyone else, and wanted to stop being treated as second-class citizens.

While, in my mind, civil unions with all the same rights as marriage is the best option, this is no longer the choice.  The votes in committee are not there for this approach.  I will still offer an amendment doing just that, but if it fails, I simply cannot turn my back on decent hard-working families who just want the same rights and dignity as everyone else in our great state.

For me, the transition to supporting marriage has not been an easy one, but the uncertainty, fear, and second-class status that gays and lesbians have to put up with is far worse and clearly must come to an end.

Sincerely,


Senator James Brochin
42nd Legislative District 

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## Shimmie (Feb 13, 2011)

My Reply:

Dear Mr. Brochin:

I too disagree with demonizing any human being, be they heterosexual or homosexual.   However, this STILL does not justify changing the true meaning of marriage which is between a man and a woman.

People who uphold the true meaning of marriage are indeed upset with the push and pressures of changing such into what it will never be.  

What I gather from your message is that you made an emotional decision, not one based upon truth.   I cannot help but wonder what other measures you would compromise in your position.

Marriage is what it is -- which is between a man and a woman...period!   This truth will never change no matter what laws are proposed, passed or un-passed.   The truth stands upon it's foundation of what God has ordained, not man.

I would never harm a human being, naming a homosexual.  They are as much human as anyone else upon this earth, but their lifestyle is not the same as that of a man and a woman and you are fully aware of this.  However, to grant them the right to marriage is not justified.  It is not on equal ground as a male and female relationship.  

Truthfully, this fight for gay marriage is quite selfish.  Their claims still do not justify the means. 

Quite frankly, I am more appalled at your weakness whereupon you made a  decision that is not valid; you cannot change what marriage means; no matter what laws are passed or repealed.

You cannot change the true meaning of marriage based upon your  disapproval of the reaction of the opposers of gay marriage.  

For while I also, do not agree the opposers behaviour, it still does not change the meaning of marriage which is again, between a man and a woman.  

I am also more than certain that not 'all' of the opposers behaved in this manner; I know that the majority of them had and still maintain a civil manner and many were composed with much compassion.    You based your decision on the few who offended you.

In truth, changing your vote was not truly based upon the opposers but your choice of weakness, and upon which does not change what marriage truly is.  

As a parent, even when my children have been disrespected, I still have to correct them when they are wrong, otherwise they lose character.

As a State Representative, although you saw unsavory behaviour and attitudes against gays, you still have to maintain the truth of marriage.   By your change in decision, you have shown me and others that you have a weak foundation and that you moved as a feather in the wind.  

As I sit here on this Sunday evening reading your email, which I received twice; I am not impressed with your reasoning, as you so shared in your email message.   

I certainly would not trust you with any important decisions as you move not with the truth. 

Respectfully,


[_My name was here_]

Concerned Voter

---------------------------

Because of my mom's past illness and now the settling of her estate [since her passing], I never changed my Maryland residency to Florida where I also reside.   

Hence the reason that I may have been on his email list.


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## Ladybelle (Feb 13, 2011)

I agree with you. 
I also agree with the belief that people can be born gay, mean, and a host of other characteristics that may not be deemed Godly hence the reason we are "born again". 

I think you responded beautifully. Kudos to you for standing firm in your convictions. 

This is one of those topics that can be difficult to discuss or address, especially when you know gay people but no man can serve two Gods. I try to be respectful of people & their choices without compromising my own beliefs.


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> I agree with you.
> I also agree with the belief that people can be born gay, mean, and a host of other characteristics that may not be deemed Godly hence the reason we are "born again".
> 
> I think you responded beautifully. Kudos to you for standing firm in your convictions.
> ...



 Thanks Ladybelle.  

This man was already 'swayed' in his decision. 

It's a wake-up to the Body of Christ that we have to take a stand against the foolishness of man. 

God says to fear 'Him' not man.  This State Representative and the others who 'cave', 'fear' man and not God [with reverence].

All the more to pray about and move as God moves us.


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 14, 2011)

Shimmie, 

I am encouraged by you to always stand in truth no matter the climate. That is such an important thing to do in the face of adversity. I am known for my wayward emotions and it often affecting my decisions. But the Lord has than convicted me that truth in the Word of God always stands. It is soo easy to get swept up in this world. There's so much going on, so such informationm so many point of views...its difficult to understand or know what's truth. Thank the Lord for the Bible that is ever true, solid, and my source for understanding the Lord's design for people. 

I can understand how he feels but when you are not a Christ-following Christian it is soooo easy to get swept away and want to do what "you perceive" to be right.

This is why it is so important to pray. Its hard to get past prayers about yourself and your family but dont forget your leaders of the nation. (not you but you in general)

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, The people He has chosen as His own inheritance. Psalm 33:12

When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice.   Proverbs 29:2

Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks be made for all men for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.   1 Timothy 2:1-2


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## makeupgirl (Feb 14, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> I agree with you.
> *I also agree with the belief that people can be born gay, mean, and a host of other characteristics that may not be deemed Godly hence the reason we are "born again". *
> 
> I think you responded beautifully. Kudos to you for standing firm in your convictions.
> ...


 
I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding the bold.  No one is born gay or even mean.  Every person that is born is born with a sinful nature inherited from Adam, even that sweet innocent baby boo.  We have to be born again because of Adam's sin that has seperated us from God and we are a new creature because we have confess and repented that we are sinners and receive Christ that has reconciled us back to God. God doesn't tolerate sin. That's why the wages of sin is death. 

Becoming homosexual, mean, hateful, sarcastic, or any characteristics that we have are choices that the individual has made to do for themselves, especially when it's contrary to God.  Because of the sinful nature we were born with , it's easy to sin against God and even easy to accept that homosexuality is ok because of the excuse/argument that people all have equal rights, however at the end of the day and for all time, it is a sin according to the bible.


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Shimmie,
> 
> I am encouraged by you to always stand in truth no matter the climate. That is such an important thing to do in the face of adversity. I am known for my wayward emotions and it often affecting my decisions. But the Lord has than convicted me that truth in the Word of God always stands.
> 
> ...



  Thank you for responding.  This is not an 'easy' subject to approach.  And I can promise you that I did not post this as a reproach against those who are homosexual.   

It is not that and it is for that reason, that I want to keep here in the Christian Forum, for in another arena, it will be taken out of context and it's real purpose and the love of God will be lost and not be seen by those who become offended. 

We live in a very 'sad' society and those who are in leadership are upon sinking sand for they have allowed themselves to be removed from solid ground.  They are being wooed, courted and blinded by 'seducing spirits', who have but one agenda as their focus and that is to oppose the plan and purpose of God.  

Come on now... and Yes...I'm preaching but I'm also reaching.   

In all truth... 

*This is not about gays;* it is instead a 'Diversion' to what satan is doing in the earth to separate man from God.   It is an eye opener to to the Body of Christ to be awake and aware as to what satan is behind to kill and destroy mankind.  

Oh the enemy would love to have 'us' fighting and arguing and pitted against one another.  But it is not about that.  It just isn't.  The Word of God makes this so very plain and instead of getting upset with someone for being gay, we have to look at the true force which is behind it.

And for the record... *Gays are not born that way*. There is no DNA for being gay.   

It is a spiritual attack and an afront against the nature of God. It is the work of the enemy coming against God ... think about it. satan is throwing this in the face of God who created humans for one purpose and satan has turned it around to defy God's plan. 

Where are gays targeted and what do they use as their target?  

Their emotions... their souls.  And their target fight is not about anything else except for what they feel in their souls.  And who has the control?  God did not place it there.  Where is ther breeding ground for anything and what did Jesus die for about us?  "Our Souls".  And our soul is what satan targets and plants his seeds of deception.  

This is one of reasons, it so hard for a gay person to understand, because the feelings they have are coming from their soulish realm; the area which is their 'center'; the soul is the 'center' for 'All' human beings and this is where satan lands his attack and he is very clever at it. 

This is the battle ground for homosexuals, it's all inside of their soul and what the soul feels is going to 'seem' right to them, deep inside; hence their stand upon 'being who they are'.  It's been rooted in their soul by the enemy that this is how they are and hence the battle to possess their begins. 

God did not make them this way. He loves them and would not put this upon them.  And this is why Jesus came to deliver our souls from 'all' sin and from the enemy's deceptions. 

The Word tells us, that satan as a roaring lion, roams the earth 'SEEKING' whom he may devour.  This is what he has done...he has placed his tracks in various forms for all of mankind;

Be it... any type of bondage and/or sin; it is truly *not* all about homosexuality.  It's just part of the mix that satan has in his plan to compromise the nature of man.   

As far as our government is concerned they are satan's counterparts... think about it.  Someone has to create and pass the laws ... which oppose the will of God. 

-----------

I'm not done...


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## Guitarhero (Feb 14, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> My Reply:
> 
> 
> What I gather from your message* is that you made an emotional decision, not one based upon truth. *  I cannot help but wonder what other measures you would compromise in your position.
> ...



Does the Senator admit to being a christian or religious?  I think that his intentions were to bring the law towards justice for all members of society, not just some of them.  We cannot pick and choose our born-citizenry.  It's such a difficult issue and lots of people are afraid that something is being taken from them.  I try and think ahead as to what freedoms could be stripped  but for now, cannot think of any.  Anyone here is welcomed to give their opinions as it will help me with this question.

As far as I know, the proponents of same-sex marriage want the economic advantages.  There simply is no way to legalize social acceptance of a lifestyle..of a like-issue.  They do not have it now and they are still in same-sex relationships.   Discrimination is another issue entirely.  With that said, I believe they do have the right to have each other on their insurance as a partner etc., same benefits, respect.  I don't personally feel that traditional marriage is in danger with recognizing another's civil right.  But, it's not like a race issue...you cannot force people to like it...but you can enforce how others respond publicly to you. I'd say that respect is biblical.

As to the Senator going against what he knows as truth, I don't think we can say that.  He did state he held to traditional definitions of male/female marriage but charging him with being weak-minded is, imho, incorrect.  He never made this about religion and from his email, has not stated any religious beliefs.  Does he in fact do so or has he done so in the past (admit to being a christian)?  I'm just looking at this from the perspective of factual information between emails.   So, your communication might have had a bit more weight other than just religious viewpoint if you had delineated the points of potential disadvantage and loss for traditionals.


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## Laela (Feb 14, 2011)

I believe I understand what Ladybelle is saying concerning being born gay,  with the  iniquities of our mothers and fathers being passed on to us (influences, so to speak). The Bible is full of examples:   Isaac and Jacob; David and Absolom for  example.

There are generational curses... the curse of sexual sin  (promiscuity/deviation, etc), the curse of alcoholism, etc., that, until  they're repented, can go on from generation to generation.  The influence is there to cause us to choose to sin that particular sin. It's a real battle for all of us, so much so that the only way to overcome any sinful influence is to overcome through being born again. What may be a battle for one may not even be a temptation for another.



makeupgirl said:


> I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding the bold.  No one is born gay or even mean.  Every person that is born is born with a sinful nature inherited from Adam, even that sweet innocent baby boo.  We have to be born again because of Adam's sin that has seperated us from God and we are a new creature because we have confess and repented that we are sinners and receive Christ that has reconciled us back to God. God doesn't tolerate sin. That's why the wages of sin is death.
> 
> Becoming homosexual, mean, hateful, sarcastic, or any characteristics that we have are choices that the individual has made to do for themselves, especially when it's contrary to God.  Because of the sinful nature we were born with , it's easy to sin against God and even easy to accept that homosexuality is ok because of the excuse/argument that people all have equal rights, however at the end of the day and for all time, it is a sin according to the bible.


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## Laela (Feb 14, 2011)

Is an inalienable right a choice?

Politically, gays straddle the fence all the time, and have their rights/ choices interchanged when it's convenient to win a case. A person born black doesn't have that luxury. 

I marvel at us (humans) telling our Creator, no I don't want to be a man as you made me, I want to be a woman or vice-versa. This isn't the same thing as cosmetics such as coloring one's hair or straightening teeth with braces. You're right... a person's soul/inner well being is affected. Look at the heart-wrenching story of Susan Stanton ("Her name was Steven"). This man said he was hounded for years as a child by "Susan". "Susan" stayed away when he fell in love with a woman, got married and had a son. After SEVEN years, he said "Susan" came back and started torturing him, so much so he relented and changed his gender. Who was this Susan? Today he lives his life as Susan and had regrets and thoughts of suicide after the operation. Despite the influences as a child, he chose to live as a man until he met his wife. Then, he chose to live as a woman.

The devil has this world so upside down, abortion (euphemism for murder) is legal and a right, but reading a Bible on a school grounds can land someone in jail. I agree, it's not even about gays, but sin and injustice, that is rampant and  supported by the affluent and those in political power, to make some "rights" (aka sin)  the law of the land. 

Still, our God is greater ... We are commanded to love/respect people and can do so without compromising our beliefs.  God hates sin. He loves people. He loves us in spite of our sinful nature. So much so, that He gave His only Son to us, so we have a way to reconcile with Him.

ETA: Oh, kudos to you for writing that letter!






Shimmie said:


> Thank you for responding.  This is not an 'easy' subject to approach.  And I can promise you that I did not post this as a reproach against those who are homosexual.
> 
> It is not that and it is for that reason, that I want to keep here in the Christian Forum, for in another arena, it will be taken out of context and it's real purpose and the love of God will be lost and not be seen by those who become offended.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

*Eye openers: *

There are four (4) threads in the Christian Forum which tie into this and it is all so relevant. 

The _*Emotional Promiscurity*_ thread;

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/ch...1-there-such-thing-emotional-promiscuity.html

(Nicola.kiran --the OP of said thread)... fits this situation to a 'T'.  Although the particular article (mentioned) was directed at women and their emotions, this emotional curve is flying high in our government and with gays with a full pendulum swing. 

In our government, there is no leadership in prayer, only the emotional wiles of men.  And I'll take it even further, to say that our government is being run by 'lasciviousness', for these decisions which have been made, God is not in them' neither is common sense.  

HWAY -- her thread, _*"The War for Your Soul"*_

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/christian-fellowship/525009-war-your-soul.html

If this thread topic doesn't fit the past and current condition of our government... it goes beyond the war against Blacks, but against our whole world order. 

Here's an example of governmental rule... 

*Christianity and the BGLOS*

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/christian-fellowship/526489-christianity-bglos-greek-org.html

Our Precious OP... preciouslove0x 

This thread topic opens up a major truth.  It's part of the hierachy where the social clubs have those who pledge their alliegence to a higher power; many losing their dedication to God.  "They" don't see it; [*not all*, but the majority of the members] they're so caught up in being a gama, alpha phi, beta ... that being known a Christian becomes irrelevant. 

This is a government, for the 'club' and it's hierachy rules the lives of its members; for the last thing a member wants is to be known as one rejected or ejected from said society. 

Here's the trick of the enemy...to get into these 'clubs' one has to 'Qualify' and be screened and has to fit certain criteria...  Please Get This  -- for this is how satan rigs it up.   The pledgee' is so honoured to be selected that they put this membership above Church and God.

It's a build-up and satan knows this.  I hear so many 'brag', I'm a Phi Kappa, or I'm a 'Mason'... 

My response is ... Well ... okay.    What's that have to do with the price of salvation which Jesus fully paid with His Blood ?  

Once again... it's attached to the soul and the person becomes identified by the 'club' and not by Jesus Christ. 

satan then moves them into postions of decision makers in the world and our government ... hence the change in degree and measures of God's plan.  

makeupgirl 

*Unholy Trinity... *

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/christian-fellowship/526995-beware-unholy-trinity.html

Nice & Wavy 

*"Purpose Driven Deception"*

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/christian-fellowship/347509-purpose-driven-deception.html

In these two threads mentioned above, God's Word tells us that satan is out to deceive even the very elect of God.   So many 'Believers' are being blinded and folding up, yielding to the pressures of society and the world's system.   They are 'yielding' to other gods...the god of this world.    

This Christian Forum is being filled with much in the prophetic; even when ones comes in to post a 'question', it's a question which leads to an answer which God's prophesy has already been proclaimed in the Bible. 

Again this is not a gay issue, the gay agenda is simply a symptom of what God has forwarned us about in His Word.  

Again.... all the more for each of us to pray and stay close to God our Father. 

I share this in love and in peace towards any and everyone. It's the enemy who is being exposed and disparaged, not any human being ... :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Does the Senator admit to being a christian or religious?  I think that his intentions were to bring the law towards justice for all members of society, not just some of them.  We cannot pick and choose our born-citizenry.
> 
> It's such a difficult issue and lots of people are afraid that something is being taken from them.  I try and think ahead as to what freedoms could be stripped  but for now, cannot think of any.  Anyone here is welcomed to give their opinions as it will help me with this question.
> 
> ...



This is indeed a very difficult issue which is why I'm addressing from the spiritual realm, which is actually it's origin and it's breeding and feeding ground. 

Thank you for your post.


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

Laela said:


> Is an inalienable right a choice?
> 
> Politically, gays straddle the fence all the time, and have their rights/ choices interchanged when it's convenient to win a case. A person born black doesn't have that luxury.
> 
> ...



Thank you Laela... you have the understanding.  The sporadic changes and constant vascilation that the gay community expreses to defend their cause is due to it being an emotional issue which is stemming from the soulish realm which is where satan has held them captive.   

Whenever one speaks of deep feelings, they refer to 'heart and soul'.  It's in poems, love songs, and yes even the Word of God.   In Song of Solomon, the woman speaks 'whom her soul loveth' over and over; all throughout the Psalms when one is in distress, they cry out about or from their soul; deliver my soul from the enemy, deliver my soul from distress...  

Over and over it is about the soul, for the soul in the 'center' of one's being.  And it is the soul of gays whom satan has attacked and deceived. 

That's the entire battlegroud... not their human rights, but the enemy is battling them within their souls and that's why you see the contant vascilation in their fight for rights.   They are fighting for their soul wants to be a norm and acceptance, yet..... 

God loves them.  God LOVES them... God loves them...each of them. And this is not what He has planned for their 'souls'.   

There is so much more God wants to reveal to us.  Mostly, God simply wants to reveal Himself to all.  He loves us and nothing will ever change that.  :Rose:


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## Guitarhero (Feb 14, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> This is indeed a very difficult issue which is why I'm addressing from the spiritual realm, which is actually it's origin and it's breeding and feeding ground.
> 
> Thank you for your post.




I believe there is a network of evil in the world...but how are traditionals going to be at a loss if gay couples get to put each other as beneficiaries and get tax cuts?  Like, pragmatic examples?  For an analogy, if they allow scattered site housing from a torn-down project and halfway houses zoned to come into my neighborhood, I'm going to lose home value and a sense of security.  That's tangible.  I can guess about the spiritual...but tangibly...???:scratchch


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> I believe there is a network of evil in the world...but how are traditionals going to be at a loss if gay couples get to put each other as beneficiaries and get tax cuts?  Like, pragmatic examples?
> 
> For an analogy, if they allow scattered site housing from a torn-down project and halfway houses zoned to come into my neighborhood, I'm going to lose home value and a sense of security.  That's tangible.  I can guess about the spiritual...but tangibly...???:scratchch



Here's the Truth ...

These benefits are meant for married couples, a man and a wife.  

Gay relationships are not the same as a man and a woman.  Why is that so complicated to see? :scratchch:   What they are doing is 'piggybacking' from a standard that God ordained.  

Get it through your head; no matter what laws are passed to allow gay marriage it will never be a marriage and never acknowledged by God. You can't undo what God has purposed and designed.  

My heart breaks to see the torment that so many people are going through, however legalizing gay marriage is not the answer and it never will be.  

What's more important is their souls.  What about their souls?   

And are you kidding me?  Insurance policies, beneficiaries, and whatever other issues;  are not going to save them; there is something far more important than what they are fighting for and that is the deliverance of their souls.  And those of us, who know God need to pray for their deliverance and not be distracted by the deceptions which are within them.

Gay men are dropping like flies from HIV/AIDS; who saves them from the eternal grave?   Gay women are not exempt; just because they legally become a dependent on their partner's insurance policy, who saves them from cancer, a hit and run, or whatever else sends them to the grave?  

The government is a fool; leading these precious souls into further darkness.  And yeah.... satan is behind it all and those who enable and support it. 

You want to know the harm?   It's the children.   The Word of God clearly commands us to train up a child in the way that they should go and they are old they shall not depart from it.    God's Word says that our children are taught of the Lord and great shall be the peace of our children.

Gay marriage is presenting to children the very opposite of what God says.  It is misleading them and giving them the incorrect purpose and definition of marriage which is ordained of God between a man and a woman. 

Right now children are being prepped and trained by schools that homosexuality is a free option for them to explore and to so choose if they desire.   It is being taught under the guise of a 'new' nationality which should be accepted no matter what the Bible says.   

It is any wonder... why prayer and Bibles have been banned from schools?  

The question is not, 'Who or what will it hurt' but rather, 

'Is this the Will of God?' 

That's your answer.  Please don't lose sight of it.  :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

Here are more powerful threads which connect:

Prudent1 

* "Let God Transform...The Way You Think."*

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/christian-fellowship/523841-let-god-transform-way-you-think.html


Laela
*
"Beware of the Angry Watchmen"*

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/christian-fellowship/512323-beware-angry-watchmen.html
*

The Employment Support Thread...*

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/christian-fellowship/477798-employment-support-thread.html

  Yes... this thread.    satan's best distraction is when people are worried about 'money' and making ends meet.   Folks begin to 'compromise' when they are in financial troubles.   

It leads to succombing to pressures that one never thought possible.  Yes... this the message in this thread, all ties in.  
*
"Return of the First Church"*

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/christian-fellowship/452228-return-first-church.html

Another one...

blqlady 

*"Sexual Soul-Ties Prayer"*

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/christian-fellowship/92331-sexual-soul-ties-prayer.html


There are many more threads; and they each pull this message together that God is waking up the Body of Christ...

God is moving...by His Spirit.   He's moving and He's not moving slow. 

Choose the right battle...

Selah... :Rose:


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## luthiengirlie (Feb 14, 2011)

HERE'S MY THING... 
as a believer
I have had gay friends
they have been practically THE ONLY PEOPLE who have supported ME AND ACCEPTED ME AS A DEAF WOMAN
they STILL DO
I honestly don't see a lot of hearing people really going out of thier way to develop a friendship with me as gay people do.. IT JUST JUST MY HONEST TRUTH.. as for gay marriage.. I am not sure if i agree/disagree
it's HARD for me to say.. GAY PEOPLE ARE EVIL DOWNLOW HEATHENS
when they have been the group of people who have LOVED AND SUPPORTED ME AND ENCOURAGED ME AND ACCEPTED ME when everyone else did not.. I find myself in a quandary and I've prayed about it.. so I don't know what to make of all this..


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

luthiengirlie said:


> HERE'S MY THING...
> as a believer  I have had gay friends they have been practically THE ONLY PEOPLE who have supported ME AND ACCEPTED ME AS A DEAF WOMAN
> they STILL DO  I honestly don't see a lot of hearing people really going out of thier way to develop a friendship with me as gay people do..
> 
> ...



Luthiengirlie, I'm sorry if this thread appears to disparage gay people.  It is not what I have posted.    I've purposely made a point of not making them out to be the 'bad guys' because they are not.    

More and more I've noticed that Christians are being labeled the bad guys no matter how much love they try to show to gays.  Just because gay marriage and the lifestyle is not agreed upon, it does not mean that they are not loved, because loved they truly are.  

And Luthiengirlie so are you so loved.  I've never rejected you and I never will, and there are many others who love you all the more and will never turn away from you.

I have no doubt that your gay friends have loved you deeply and supported you; these are those you were around.   

I have gay friends and family members who have supported me as I have loved and supported them as those I love,  and we get along beautifully. 

They 'know' that I love them and that what I stand upon is not to hurt them, but to only see God's best for them.   If you were to see me with one of my closest male friends [who is gay], you'd think he and I were a 'couple', that's how well we get along with each other.  

Sweet girl, please don't be offended.  As Christians 'we' must take a stand upon what God's will is.  This is why we are in the earth; to take a stand upon God's Word and his will.   satan wants so much to separate us from God and he has been quite successful in doing so. he is especially using the emotions to bring about so much turmoil with this issue. 

There will always be many things that God will say 'no' to [yet it does not stop His love for us].  

*As a 'Believer'.* .... we are to stand for God's Word and His principles.  Real love doesn't let friends die and go to hell.


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## luthiengirlie (Feb 14, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Luthiengirlie, I'm sorry if this thread appears to disparage gay people. It is not what I have posted. I've purposely made a point of not making them out to be the 'bad guys' because they are not.
> 
> More and more I've noticed that Christians are being labeled the bad guys no matter how much love they try to show to gays. Just because gay marriage and the lifestyle is not agreed upon, it does not mean that they are not loved, because loved they truly are.
> 
> ...


 

Shimmie, 
I knwo that you did not intend to down gay people..
i don't get that vibe at all
but I do get the vibe that you strongly believe that gay marriage is wrong.. that's your right...
IT'S MORE  MY FUSTRATION that  "Christians" apparently want me to HATE gays because they're diffrent.. when they have been the ones who have accepted ME for being diffrent...  Gay Marraige..
I am not sure because on one hand the world system is gonna do what the world system WANTS to do.. so WHY FIGHT IT? I mean revelations and all yada yada yada... 
but that's my feeling.. i feel like why are we trying to fight against something that goes to pot anyway
and I also feel like... it's not an easy thing like many think.. people wrestle with themselves for YEARS about stuff like that..


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

luthiengirlie said:


> Shimmie,
> 
> I knwo that you did not intend to down gay people.. i don't get that vibe at all but I do get the vibe that you strongly believe that gay marriage is wrong.. that's your right...
> 
> ...



  And I mean it with all of my heart.   

And babygirl, when we take a stand for God, it strengthens His love all the more for others to be saved and to know His love and goodness.  

It's more than a 'vibe' that I do not agree with gay marriage, it's the truth. 

Gay marriage is also not the Will of God.  And when we serve God, we have to abide by His will, no matter what the cost or what we disagree with or lack the understanding of.   Gay marriage is man's ideal, *not God's.*  It is also a deceptive trap of satan to keep a gay person in the sin of homosexuality.  It just pulls them in, deeper and deeper into the sin that God does not want them in.    

This does not mean that God does not love a person who is gay, neither does it mean that I do not love someone who is gay; I shared earlier that I have many gay friends and family members whom I love dearly and am very close to them.   

Sooner or later, as Christians we have to make a decision to put God's will before our own feelings and emotions.   We have to stand for His Truth, no matter what opposition it brings.   In the same manner that you would not allow your gay friends to drive drunk or under the influence of any harmful substance, you will also not allow them to be outside of the will of God. 

I also have family members and friends who drink, smoke, curse, and whatever ever else which is not the will of God; and as much as I love them, I cannot condone their dangerous lifestyles.     

Sweetheart, forget the offences that you have experienced from other Christians; instead, seek the Will of God.   Seek and ask the Father, what does HE have to say about gay marriage and homosexuality.   

Seek Him and I promise you that God's answer to you will not offend but lead you to set free the ones you love and all in love and in compassion.    For did it not occur to you that God has placed you into their lives to love them into His kingdom?    That's what love does...it loves our loved ones free from satan's deceptions.  

I'm glad you love your gay friends and that they love you, too.   Let God use you, to bring Him into their lives and hearts to set them free from the enemy.   Don't let their blood be upon your hands; meaning don't miss the God given opportunity to bring them into salvation where they belong in Jesus Christ.   

Love and blessings, sweet one.


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

Another Powerful Message which connects...

makeupgirl

The Call to Accountability - Long Hair Care Forum


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## makeupgirl (Feb 14, 2011)

luthiengirlie said:


> Shimmie,
> I knwo that you did not intend to down gay people..
> i don't get that vibe at all
> but I do get the vibe that you strongly believe that gay marriage is wrong.. that's your right...
> ...



No believer in Christ should ever expect you or anyone else to hate another human being.  Christ is in us, the hope of glory and when we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then the more we grow in Christ we are going to learn why God says what he says in the bible. He loves all mankind and he is love according to 1 John 4:7.  In 1 John, it also tells us to love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.  We're in the world, but no longer of the world.  It takes ongoing growth to recognize what the Lord thinks about a situation according to his word and what we as the individual thinks.  

But also, you're right, we can't fight what appears to be happening or what's to come as far as the world goes.  That's going to happen regardless.  Doesn't mean we have to submit ourselves to what's going on.  Satan wants us to submit to worldly events based on equality and so-called world peace when he really wants total and complete domination.  He knows what we know that the bible is infallible and 100% true, so of course he's going to up the ante by place his demons of doubts, fears, and unbelief, and most of all confusion.  God is not an author of confusion, so whenever that is confusion and frustration in the mix, know that it is of Satan and it is not going to work out for anyone's good except Satan himself.  

God loves all people, he just hate the sin.  So are we suppose to oppose that?  If we who believe in him and have a relationship, as we are his children, shouldn't we be willing to take his side and hate the very things that he hates?  I would think so.


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## Shimmie (Feb 14, 2011)

makeupgirl said:


> No believer in Christ should ever expect you or anyone else to hate another human being.  Christ is in us, the hope of glory and when we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then the more we grow in Christ we are going to learn why God says what he says in the bible.
> 
> He loves all mankind and he is love according to 1 John 4:7.  In 1 John, it also tells us to love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.  We're in the world, but no longer of the world.  It takes ongoing growth to recognize what the Lord thinks about a situation according to his word and what we as the individual thinks.
> 
> ...



makeupgirl....   Thank you for sharing this in Truth with God's Word and most of all.... in love.  :Rose:

Your post is very gentle speaking God's truth.


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Here's the Truth ...
> 
> These benefits are meant for married couples, a man and a wife.
> 
> ...



Actually, it's not quite the answer I was asking because if one presents this to a legislator, it's not going to carry very far.  But if someone makes a list of tangible and measurable losses and/or disadvantages to bring before their elected officials, it might carry further is what I mean.  The spiritual aspect of this is rather personal, imho...but when devising laws to protect all citizens, I don't see how it can be based upon someone else's religious interpretation.  Gays are also in churches and believe in G-d.  For those who don't, they are not knocking down the doors to get in so referencing their souls is not what they are concerned about.  That's the spiritual realm you're speaking of, which I can certainly comprehend from your point of view.

However, name one thing that is going to hurt a married couple if gays get same-sex marriage rights outside the spiritual.  Our kids live in a corrupt world daily and it's not the gay lifestyle that is ruining them when they choose drugs, have babies out of wedlock (heterosexual, right?), drop out of school etc.  But people are still marrying traditionally and are having babies all the time.  They still carry on with their family and religious traditions despite the world around.  The church exists smack dab in the midst of evil oppression.  This is the way it has come.  It's not the government that teaches me about G-d.  With my history, I'd reject G-d if they presented their version of Him to me.  Rather, it's my family, it's my traditions and it's this Mother of earth that teaches me about G-d, despite the govt. They guarantee religious freedom...not just christianity for christians...but they do not own me inside.

Reason I ask for a very tangible list is that  we're more than spirit, we're also flesh.  I have to think how to rephrase this..I guess.  But when you put property, taxes, money etc. into the mix, legislators listen harder.  I'll search the net for some because I'm sure this issue has generated the same questions.  I've just never quite thought about it before.  Incidentally, gays are not dropping like flies from AIDS/HIV, it's heterosexuals as their rate of infection is much higher.  Well, legislators are about the business of making this legal system fair to all and I think the arguments have become much more complicated.  I don't see the argument as a viable strategy because it's based upon a personal and individual religious perception when we live in a pluralistic society.  True and real pragmatic approach...but I certainly don't know what that would be because even an article I saw in ChristianityToday.com couldn't provide one.  If one considers how officially and publicly acknowledging homosexual unions could possibly do more harm than societies where it's taboo but certainly goes on (Afghanistan...and it's rampant,Shimmie, involving little boys...) in private sectors, well, direct me on how.


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## Krullete (Feb 15, 2011)

I Corinthians 5 (New American Standard Bible):

*9* I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;  *10* I _did__ not mean_  with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and  swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the  world.   not at all *11* But  actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if  he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a  drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.  *12* For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within _the church?_ *13* But those who are outside, God judges. [...]



Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> [...]The spiritual aspect of this is rather personal, imho...but when devising laws to protect all citizens, I don't see how it can be based upon someone else's religious interpretation.  Gays are also in churches and believe in G-d.  For those who don't, they are not knocking down the doors to get in so referencing their souls is not what they are concerned about.  That's the spiritual realm you're speaking of, which I can certainly comprehend from your point of view.
> 
> [...]The church exists smack dab in the midst of evil oppression.  This is the way it has come.  It's not the government that teaches me about G-d.  With my history, I'd reject G-d if they presented their version of Him to me.  Rather, it's my family, it's my traditions and it's this Mother of earth that teaches me about G-d, despite the govt. They guarantee religious freedom...not just christianity for christians...but they do not own me inside.
> 
> [...] I don't see the argument as a viable strategy because it's based upon a personal and individual religious perception when we live in a pluralistic society.


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

In other words, legislators will protect everyone's right to worship the g-d of their choice.  What they don't do is legislate that everyone should follow the g-d of their own personal choice.  One doesn't have to remove G-d from the discussion but if what they say about same-sex marriages' damaging effects are backed up by studies on health and social science, it carries more weight when it's time to present it to those who make our laws.  Maybe that list should be generated with a load of petitions to support it?  I could worship at the mildewed altar of a water buffalo but if my representative/senator doesn't follow my religion, I can't present that as the only viable solution when making laws to protect society as well as to provide justice to all.


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## Crown (Feb 15, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Actually, it's not quite the answer I was asking because if one presents this to a legislator, it's not going to carry very far.  But if someone makes a list of tangible and measurable losses and/or disadvantages to bring before their elected officials, it might carry further is what I mean.  The spiritual aspect of this is rather personal, imho...but when devising laws to protect all citizens, I don't see how it can be based upon someone else's religious interpretation.  Gays are also in churches and believe in G-d.  For those who don't, they are not knocking down the doors to get in so referencing their souls is not what they are concerned about.  That's the spiritual realm you're speaking of, which I can certainly comprehend from your point of view.
> 
> However, name one thing that is going to hurt a married couple if gays get same-sex marriage rights outside the spiritual.  Our kids live in a corrupt world daily and it's not the gay lifestyle that is ruining them when they choose drugs, have babies out of wedlock (heterosexual, right?), drop out of school etc.  But people are still marrying traditionally and are having babies all the time.  They still carry on with their family and religious traditions despite the world around.  The church exists smack dab in the midst of evil oppression.  This is the way it has come.  It's not the government that teaches me about G-d.  With my history, I'd reject G-d if they presented their version of Him to me.  Rather, it's my family, it's my traditions and it's this Mother of earth that teaches me about G-d, despite the govt. They guarantee religious freedom...not just christianity for christians...but they do not own me inside.
> 
> Reason I ask for a very tangible list is that  we're more than spirit, we're also flesh.  I have to think how to rephrase this..I guess.  But when you put property, taxes, money etc. into the mix, legislators listen harder.  I'll search the net for some because I'm sure this issue has generated the same questions.  I've just never quite thought about it before.  Incidentally, gays are not dropping like flies from AIDS/HIV, it's heterosexuals as their rate of infection is much higher.  Well, legislators are about the business of making this legal system fair to all and I think the arguments have become much more complicated.  I don't see the argument as a viable strategy because it's based upon a personal and individual religious perception when we live in a pluralistic society.  True and real pragmatic approach...but I certainly don't know what that would be because even an article I saw in ChristianityToday.com couldn't provide one.  If one considers how officially and publicly acknowledging homosexual unions could possibly do more harm than societies where it's taboo but certainly goes on (Afghanistan...and it's rampant,Shimmie, involving little boys...) in private sectors, well, direct me on how.



How about a demographic danger with all the consequences for the mankind?
I mean if you take all gay people and put them on an island and all lesbians and put them on another island, what would we have?
No reproduction, no generation!!!

[FONT=&quot]I understand your concerns, [/FONT]Volver_Alma_Gitana[FONT=&quot], but as believers, we have to stand by the Will of YHWH as Shimmie did, not to reason with non believers because this is what Eve did and we know the consequences.[/FONT]


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## Ladybelle (Feb 15, 2011)

makeupgirl said:


> I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding the bold. No one is born gay or even mean. Every person that is born is born with a sinful nature inherited from Adam, even that sweet innocent baby boo. We have to be born again because of Adam's sin that has seperated us from God and we are a new creature because we have confess and repented that we are sinners and receive Christ that has reconciled us back to God. God doesn't tolerate sin. That's why the wages of sin is death.
> 
> Becoming homosexual, mean, hateful, sarcastic, or any characteristics that we have are choices that the individual has made to do for themselves, especially when it's contrary to God. Because of the sinful nature we were born with , it's easy to sin against God and even easy to accept that homosexuality is ok because of the excuse/argument that people all have equal rights, however at the end of the day and for all time, it is a sin according to the bible.


 


Laela said:


> I believe I understand what Ladybelle is saying concerning being born gay, with the iniquities of our mothers and fathers being passed on to us (influences, so to speak). The Bible is full of examples: Isaac and Jacob; David and Absolom for example.
> 
> There are generational curses... the curse of sexual sin (promiscuity/deviation, etc), the curse of alcoholism, etc., that, until they're repented, can go on from generation to generation. The influence is there to cause us to choose to sin that particular sin. It's a real battle for all of us, so much so that the only way to overcome any sinful influence is to overcome through being born again. What may be a battle for one may not even be a temptation for another.


 


Shimmie said:


> Thank you for responding. This is not an 'easy' subject to approach. And I can promise you that I did not post this as a reproach against those who are homosexual.
> 
> It is not that and it is for that reason, that I want to keep here in the Christian Forum, for in another arena, it will be taken out of context and it's real purpose and the love of God will be lost and not be seen by those who become offended.
> 
> ...


 


*Romans 3:4* Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."


God tells us to search the scriptures for ourselves & learn what is true and what isn't. 

I'm not going to argue with precious Shimmie or anyone else whether one can be born gay or not for I am confident in what I have learned as a believer in Christ and have seen people get redeemed from, including homosexuality.  And, I am sure I am not the only one who has ever seen a little boy with homosexual tendencies who was too young to even make the choice, that idea in itself is one to ponder over or shall I say meditate. 

The Holy Spirit is a precious friend, teacher, leader, guide & if sought he will reveal to us the absolute truth on matters as tender & tough as these.

Blessings to you!


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## Crown (Feb 15, 2011)

I understand what you are saying Ladybelle. I did not see this in real life, but I've seen some documentary films on this : difficult and complex topic about being born with... Some don't believe it, but it's true like the taste for alcohol, drug, anger... Genetics and Biology... But I agree with the explanation of Laela :



Laela said:


> I believe I understand what Ladybelle is saying concerning being born gay,  with the  *iniquities of our mothers and fathers being passed on to us* (influences, so to speak). The Bible is full of examples:   Isaac and Jacob; David and Absolom for  example.
> 
> There are *generational curses*... the curse of sexual sin  (promiscuity/deviation, etc), the curse of alcoholism, etc., that, until  they're repented, can go on from generation to generation.  The influence is there to cause us to choose to sin that particular sin. It's a real battle for all of us, so much so that the only way to overcome any sinful influence *is to overcome through being born again*. What may be a battle for one may not even be a temptation for another.


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## Ladybelle (Feb 15, 2011)

Crown said:


> I understand what you are saying Ladybelle. I did not see this in real life, but I've seen some documentary films on this : difficult and complex topic about being born with... Some don't believe it, but it's true like the taste for alcohol, drug, anger... Genetics and Biology... But I agree with the explanation of Laela :


 
Yep.  That's it in a nutshell. It can be even more difficult for some to believe that a precious baby could be born with problems as complex as perversion & homosexuality amongst other things.  

ITA with you, Laela summed it up perfectly.  God is faithful though & he will redeem anyone who wants to be saved.


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## Shimmie (Feb 15, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> *Romans 3:4* Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
> 
> 
> God tells us to search the scriptures for ourselves & learn what is true and what isn't.
> ...



Thanks Ladybelle and I do understand what you are saying.    AND....... I appreciate what you are saying.   

Look at this....   

There are many spirits [gemerational curses] which follow the generations and will lay themselves upon our children...unless they are broken.  

All the more reason, we dedicate our children unto the Lord, while they are still in the womb. 

When we see a child who presents a gay characteristic, this is a 'spirit' which is moving through the child, not the child's DNA.   satan's influence sends the family into a spin of 'denial', or they accept it and allow this spirit to take over.   

The only entrance any spirit has it operation is through a body; and when we see it manifested in a child, it means they were not 'covered' and the enemy has laid himself upon the child and is operating through the child's central being...the child's soul.  

Has anyone been aware that many children talk to _imaginary _friends?   There are spirits in 'high' places ... familiar spirits who follow our children from the moment they are conceived, and different spirits from different generational curses rest themselves lying in wait to become the controller of the child's soul. 

We read the news everyday and see and hear of the most horrific things that children have done.  Why is that?   A spirit has been 'speaking' to that child misleading them into the most bazarr of behaviours.    

Is a child born gay?   No argument Lovely one... no argument at all.   There is a spirit which has attached itself to that child and is manifesting the traits of homosexuaity through him/her.   Hence 'it appears' they were born that way.   Hence it 'appears' the child discovers they are 'different' at a young age.   This is the spirit of deception which has taken over not the child's DNA.

You know what?  I've been re-reading and doing a study on the Soul from the Bible, itself.   And this is soooooooo powerful.   The Bible has the answers.   And the only reason that folks wnat to exclude it is because they will have to admit that what they are fighting for is wrong. 

There is a 'track record' of the different spirits which followed the generations of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and so on and so on.  The daughthers of Lot (Abraham's cousin)... Oh my goodness! The seed (the children) that they brought forth, had with it a whole string of seducing spirits which followed the generations to come.   

Let me stay on track...  

My point is that I understand what you are saying;   No argument loved one.  

Just sharing what it is that makes it seem so.


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Crown said:


> How about a demographic danger with all the consequences for the mankind?
> I mean if you take all gay people and put them on an island and all lesbians and put them on another island, what would we have?
> No reproduction, no generation!!!
> 
> [FONT=&quot]I understand your concerns, [/FONT]Volver_Alma_Gitana[FONT=&quot], but as believers, we have to stand by the Will of YHWH as Shimmie did, not to reason with non believers because this is what Eve did and we know the consequences.[/FONT]




Where are they?  It's not about reasoning with non-believers, nor judging anybody...remember, that is not my church culture.  But a letter to a legislator should provide hard facts.  I'm simply asking where they are.  It's rather ridiculous to suggest that an entire population will "become" gay.  I'm talking about actual, factual disadvantages to those in traditional marriage is same-sex marriage is granted full status and rights.  Where are the presentable facts for legislators?  They don't make laws based upon "pastor X says..."  They just don't.  But they do listen to valid public concerns that are backed up by evidences of harm done.  The spiritual realm is not the business of my government as it's up to me.  However, public safety etc...that's the real of government.  If some are so against same-sex and know that the way to get to their legislators is to organize a certain way, then why are they not doing so?  Just blaming someone for not holding the same religious beliefs is ineffective, imho.

As far as being born with the tendency...the human being is so complex, christians don't have the definitive answer because G-d hasn't given one on WHY it happens.  He just gives us guidelines on how to live.  Obviously, He knew it would happen beforehand.  When we make up reasons, isn't that relying upon emotions...the same argument used against the LGBT community?


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## Prudent1 (Feb 15, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Actually, it's not quite the answer I was asking because if one presents this to a legislator, it's not going to carry very far. But if someone makes a list of tangible and measurable losses and/or disadvantages to bring before their elected officials, it might carry further is what I mean. *The spiritual aspect* of this is rather personal, imho...but when devising laws to protect all citizens, I don't see how it can be based upon someone else's religious interpretation. *Gays are* *also in churches and believe in G-d.* For those who don't, they are not knocking down the doors to get in so referencing their souls is not what they are concerned about. *That's the spiritual realm you're speaking of*, which I can certainly comprehend from your point of view.
> .


"*Gays are* *also in churches and believe in G-d." *This is true. They should be in church. Attending and not leading but in church so they (like the rest of us) can hear the word and be transformed continually. I will quote these scriptures and move on to my next point.
James 2:19
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! *Even the demons believe* that—and shudder.
A belief in God in and of itself is not sufficient otherwise they^^^would be able to enter in.
1Cor 6:9-10
*9* Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men *10* nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 
Ok, now on to the other stuff. I think you have made a valid point. I am not attacking you or anyone else. I have gay relatives, friends, co-workers, you name it. I love them all. I do _not_ love their actions/ behaviors. 
I understand what you are saying about the most effective way to reach politicians and the lack of concrete lists showing the detriments of equating relationships between same sex partners as equal to a marriage. I think the point @Shimmie and others here were trying to make is this... 
-> In the end, what is the most important(thing) part of us? You pointed out truthfully that we are more than just souls and we indeed are. We are spirits. At this point in time we are living in bodies. We have souls. We will _never_ not exist somewhere. So the point is, God loves and is concerned about the soul's final location. Any kind of distraction that comes along and causes lost focus on what should be happenening (ppl _clearly_ seeing the Love of God displayed in a manner that causes them to be drawn to him and salvation obtained) regardless to what form the distraction takes on_ will_ cause tangible eternal casualties. We don't need any research to document the ramifications. History does that. What if we are half wrong (let's play devil's advocate for a moment)? The half that's lost will be_ eternally_ lost. Eternally lost souls, that's a big hairy deal! It is wrong to twist or manipulate the truth of God's word to suit one's purpose even though we all have at some point or another. It is wrong to create confusion (God is not the author of confusion) by teaching future generations to accept what God has said in his word is wrong as acceptable-period. List or no list. There is nothing new under the sun. _*All*_ of the previous great societies eventually fell. Some have been completely annihilated as payment for their _tolerance_. From Sodom and Gomorrah, Greece, Rome, Eqypt, Babylon, Persia, Germany, you name them- all fell when morality went out the window. Read documentation from them. Not recent historians but the words of ppl who actually lived during the times. The word of God stands eternal. His words_ will_ accomplish the tasks he sent them to accomplish. Any society that gets so intellectually advanced until they don't need God will be humbled and or destroyed. Who can box with the Almighty? For a time God winks at man's ignorance but then the time to pay the piper comes & or. 
IOW, forget sexual orientation for a moment. It and all of its spinoff topics are but distractions. If you give an inch to the devil he'll desensitize you slowly but surely and take foot after foot after precious foot. The line of compromise will always be constantly redrawn. The boundaries of what is acceptable will constantly be pushed further and further and not on the side of what God has said either. Just look at the middle east's history up to now... Before you know it you are lukewarm:kneel: and leaving a foul taste in the mouth of God. What happens when the time comes where their souls are required? It is_ all_ spiritual. Everything at its core has to do with the battle raging between good and evil in the spirit realm. We are in the matrix right now looking through that dim mirror. What we are saying to you is that you make a good point but, don't lose focus of the more monumental things.
Mark 8:36
36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?
Matt 10:28
*28* Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 

Luke 12:5
*5* But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. 
1 Cor 13:12
*12* For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Eph 6:12
*12* For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 

Psa 90:12
*12* Teach us to number our days, that we may gain a heart of wisdom.

Eph 5:8-17
*8* For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light *9* (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) *10* and *find out what pleases the Lord*. *11 Have* *nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather* *expose them*. *12* It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. *13* But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. *14* This is why it is said: 
“Wake up, sleeper, 
rise from the dead, 
and Christ will shine on you.” *15* *Be very careful, then, how you live*—not as unwise but as wise, *16* *making the most of every opportunity*, _because the days are evil_. *17* Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 



luthiengirlie said:


> "...
> it's HARD for me to say..* GAY PEOPLE ARE EVIL DOWNLOW HEATHENS*
> when they have been the group of people who have LOVED AND SUPPORTED ME AND ENCOURAGED ME AND ACCEPTED ME when *everyone* *else did not*..* I find myself in a quandary and I've prayed about it*..


You are seeking God. So, you will get your answers. @Shimmie made a great point. You may be the only true glimpse of God's love they will ever see. God_ is_ love. Love them:heart2:. Sometimes we are planting seeds, sometimes we are watering and helping to remove weeds (lies, hurt, deceptions, old wounds)but God does the drawing closer part. 
@makeupgirl already said it, I just wanted to reiterate anyone who said this or had this mentality I would give a serious side eye to>>*GAY PEOPLE ARE EVIL DOWNLOW HEATHENS. *Since when are called to bash and belittle? Test them, those clutching a bible but spewing garbage and venom. Just b/c I say I am a Christian does not make me one. If I walk into a skinhead meeting and announce myself as a white male of Aryan decent that won't make it so. We know the Christian by the fruit they bear. Not just the public fruit neither- nuh uhh, but the fruit behind closed doors...


ETA: An excerpt from Ritchie Righteous' song _Who you represent?_
_"Everybody now a days be marching in the movement.
some ain't gon like what I'm saying in my song
__cus they be marching for the right to do what is the wrong.
Abortion is a sin. Homosex is a sin. _
_And if you were born that way then you can be born again."_
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xOH2Xxwax8


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## SmileyNY (Feb 15, 2011)

The "true" meaning of marriage is a lot of things aside from being between a man and a woman. It is also supposed to involve unconditional & eternal love. Last forever. Absolutely no adultery. The "true" meaning of marriage is for reproduction, so technically every married couple should have children... and they should ONLY have children with each other. After all, one of the reasons that marriage was initiated was so that a man could ensure the paternity of his children. 

So, my question is... knowing all of this, why do we allow so many straight couples to trample over the "true" meaning of marriage, yet many consider the between a "man & woman" "rule" to be unbreakable. The "true" meaning of marriage has already be trampled over, changed, and dissected. It isn't sacred anymore. People have children out of wedlock, people divorce, people cheat. The fact that all of these people are allowed to marry, changes the "true" meaning of marriage. 

Personally, I feel that love should prevail overall. If two adults feel that they love each other and are able to decide on their own free will to commit to a marriage, they should be allowed to do so. Even if they have children out of wedlock, even if those children are with other people, even if they decide not to have children at all, even if they end up getting divorced, even if they are gay. Period.


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Prudent1 said:


> " I think the point @Shimmie and others here were trying to make is this...
> -> In the end, what is the most important(thing) part of us? ..... *So the point is, God loves and is concerned about the soul's final location. Any kind of distraction that comes along and causes lost focus on what should be happenening (ppl clearly seeing the Love of God displayed in a manner that causes them to be drawn to him and salvation obtained) regardless to what form the distraction takes on will cause tangible eternal casualties.* We don't need any research to document the ramifications. History does that. What if we are half wrong (let's play devil's advocate for a moment)? The half that's lost will be_ eternally_ lost. Eternally lost souls, that's a big hairy deal! *It is wrong to twist or manipulate the truth of God's word to suit one's purpose even though we all have at some point or another. It is wrong to create confusion (God is not the author of confusion) by teaching future generations to accept what God has said in his word is wrong as acceptable-period. *List or no list. There is nothing new under the sun.



One cannot legislate salvation and it's not my business if the person next to me is a baptist, methodist etc.  Now, if there is a detriment, then I should present the facts.  This is where I often see christian communities failing when it comes to law time.  They rely upon emotion when they could present a concrete argument but retort, "G-d said."  G-d is not voting in the bill and someone's spiritual reality is not going to be that of another.  Where are the facts that pertain to everyone?  Even He doesn't force beliefs on anyone.  However one interprets the scriptures, it's beside the point when dealing with government.  Thank G-d for that because there are examples like Afghanistan, Algeria and Iran who essentially have theocratic govts. and everyone is miserable, except for the extremist supporters reaping benefits.   This country is not a christian-only entity and even within the said population of believers, there is incredible diversity.  

As far as history documenting immorality being the fall of society, I'd say that the sheer numbers of "christian" men and women who have children out of wedlock and commit crimes have nothing to do with the quantity of gays in society.  Those are heterosexuals and they are killing themselves with their own immorality.  A gay next door doesn't make Quaneshia down the street have sex with DaKwon at her high school and make a baby, then come to church the following Sunday and for 10 years post proclaim holiness when the fact is that she was immoral AS A CHRISTIAN BELIEVER.  That's only an example.

If we look at the detriments to drug use and oow births, we have tangible complaints and concerns backed by evidence.  Abortion?  Concrete facts based upon studies.  The effects of same-sex parenting is still being studied. That is why I say it's so very complicated.  Basically, it's prejudice and fear without many presentable evidences that fuels anti-same-sex marriage.  

I truly need to see the facts.  People can talk all day long about the bible...it's going in one ear and out the other.  Why?  I'm catholic...and don't hold onto protestant teachings.  Jews don't hold onto mine and etc.  If I were a legislator, I would feel some kinda way if a constituent accused me of turning my back on G-d.  I don't think he's done this (no offense to you, Shimmie...it's just an example)  and I believe, from his communication to his constituents, that he's attempting to do the right thing and be just to all. We might not agree with the existence of certain people in society but we do not have the right to discriminate against them.  I realize that my arguments might be seen as contrary but they aren't, really.  I'd never vote in anybody to a body of government due to his religious beliefs.  I need  a fair and balanced person who utilizes his talents and wisdom for the benefit of all members of society, however they came about.  Religion is NOT how government works.  I just don't see it.


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## Shimmie (Feb 15, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> The "true" meaning of marriage is a lot of things aside from being between a man and a woman. It is also supposed to involve unconditional & eternal love. Last forever. Absolutely no adultery. The "true" meaning of marriage is for reproduction, so technically every married couple should have children... and they should ONLY have children with each other. After all, one of the reasons that marriage was initiated was so that a man could ensure the paternity of his children.
> 
> So, my question is... knowing all of this, why do we allow so many straight couples to trample over the "true" meaning of marriage, yet many consider the between a "man & woman" "rule" to be unbreakable. The "true" meaning of marriage has already be trampled over, changed, and dissected. It isn't sacred anymore. People have children out of wedlock, people divorce, people cheat. The fact that all of these people are allowed to marry, changes the "true" meaning of marriage.
> 
> Personally, I feel that love should prevail overall. If two adults feel that they love each other and are able to decide on their own free will to commit to a marriage, they should be allowed to do so. Even if they have children out of wedlock, even if those children are with other people, even if they decide not to have children at all, even if they end up getting divorced, even if they are gay. Period.



Hi Smiley   Thank you for coming in to share you heart.  I mean this sincerely as it is opening the path to understanding this issue all around.  

I know that it seems that if a man and woman, have failed in marriage, then allow gays to have it.  Yet that is not the answer.  

If I eat an orange that is of bad quality, this doesn't mean that I can change it into an apple.  An orange will will always be an orange no matter what.   One bad orange does not make all oranges bad nor does it qualify it to be dismissed from being an orange.  

We know that heterosexual marriages have experienced failure and it is because of a lack of respect for it and homosexual marriage is simply _*the ultimate*_ of disrespect for the pure meaning of marriage.  It's truly an insult to holy matrimony. 

Gay relationships are not more stable than heterosexual relationships.  In fact it is proven that the fidelity and promiscurity rate of homosexual activity is far higher.   

What's happening is that gays are coming in with the heterosexual divorce rate as an excuse and waving a flag of mockery, which is not a validation to support their cause.  

_Loved one..._ feelings come and go. 

Just because a gay person wants to 'marry' because they 'love' someone, does not make it valid.  What they feel is not the same as what a man and a woman feel.  

What they feel are _'same sex' attractions _and it is not the same as the love between a man and a woman, which therefore does not give just cause for them to have the same priviledges of marriage.  

Thanks again for sharing...   :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Feb 15, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> *One cannot legislate salvation and it's not my business if the person next to me is a baptist, methodist etc.  Now, if there is a detriment, then I should present the facts.*
> 
> This is where I often see christian communities failing when it comes to law time.  They rely upon emotion when they could present a concrete argument but retort, "G-d said."  G-d is not voting in the bill and someone's spiritual reality is not going to be that of another.  Where are the facts that pertain to everyone?  Even He doesn't force beliefs on anyone.  However one interprets the scriptures, it's beside the point when dealing with government.  Thank G-d for that because there are examples like Afghanistan, Algeria and Iran who essentially have theocratic govts. and everyone is miserable, except for the extremist supporters reaping benefits.   This country is not a christian-only entity and even within the said population of believers, there is incredible diversity.
> 
> ...



Volver... in case you haven't noticed, the fair and balanced folks in Congress have made a huge mess out of our legislation...  They are not Christians, and they are not following Jesus.

So...your votes have been in vain. 

Okay... you asked valid reasons, there are many which far out number validating gay marriage.

I've been studying this for a long, long time. 

Here is a portion from one of my studies which I'd like to share:

--------

The Dangers of Same-Sex 'Marriage'

*What’s the harm?*

" ....how gay “marriage” will affect this trend, we need look no further than Scandinavia. 

According to Stanley Kurtz in the Weekly Standard, Scandinavia has had gay “marriage” for over a decade. 

During that time it experienced a 25 percent increase in co-habitation and unmarried parenthood, resulting in a 60 percent out-of-wedlock birthrate in some Scandinavian countries.

In addition, studies compiled by Peter Sprigg and Timothy Dailey show that children raised by gay couples risk a 50 times higher incidence of incest, a two times incidence of domestic violence, and perform worst in nine out of twelve social and academic areas, as compared to children in other family types.

Thus, the results for the gay “marriage” experiment are in: By further elevating the desires of adults over the needs of children, gay “marriage” widens the gap between marriage and the stable nurture of the next generation.

Has the blight of heterosexual divorce undermined the welfare of families and children? Sadly, yes. But that is no justification to redefine marriage, or sanction other family configurations that deepen the problems of fatherless homes, single-parent moms, and at-risk children.

“[T]he lives of millions of adults and children will judge us harshly for not learning the marriage redefinition lesson the first time. People get hurt deeply when you tinker with the essential nature of marriage…” -- Glenn T. Stanton

Regis Nicoll is a freelance writer and a BreakPoint Centurion.

------------

I have more....   You know I do.


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## SmileyNY (Feb 15, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Hi Smiley   Thank you for coming in to share you heart.  I mean this sincerely as it is opening the path to understanding this issue all around.
> 
> I know that it seems that if a man and woman, have failed in marriage, then allow gays to have it.  Yet that is not the answer.
> 
> ...



Question: Why is a homosexual marriage the *ULTIMATE *betrayal of the true meaning of marriage? Why is that betrayal more horrible than, say, infidelity or having children out of wedlock? Most Christians are taught that no "sin" weighs more heavily than another. A sin is a sin is a sin... right? 

Oranges aside... my point is, it seems as if many are trying to "preserve" something that has long been broken... And they are only trying to "preserve" it in one respect: homosexuality. If the main concern was *REALLY *"preserving" the "true" meaning of marriage (and not bigotry based on personal feelings), then JUST as much energy should be put into being against divorce, having children out of wedlock, and being married without having children... because it all goes against the "true" meaning of marriage... I mean, if that is REALLY the actual concern...


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Volver... in case you haven't noticed, *the fair and balanced folks in Congress have made a huge mess out of our legislation...  They are not Christians, and they are not following Jesus.
> *
> *So...your votes have been in vain. *
> 
> ...



Well, why didn't you say you did?    I've heard it both ways and there is a govt. study on incest...I aim to get that stat and ask my sociologist friend about it.  I'm not sure it's elevated simply with gay parents.  People have this notion that a gay couple turn their desires on the child.    What about heterosexuals?  

Anyhoo, I don't care if the govt. is run by christians...I truly don't care.  My faith is personal...very personal.  I don't force it on anyone else.  Protecting life?  That's another story and people are defin. responsible for standing up for life.  It can be a slippery slope of sorts.  But whether someone is a christian in govt., not my worry.  I only need them to run the govt.  There is a universal model of morality and protection of life the world over.  That came from G-d.  Specifics of religious beliefs, I don't look for those in leaders because I believe in the separation of church and state as I do not like interference.  But I respect your opinion.


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> Question: Why is a homosexual marriage the *ULTIMATE *betrayal of the true meaning of marriage? Why is that betrayal more horrible than, say, infidelity or having children out of wedlock? Most Christians are taught that no "sin" weighs more heavily than another. A sin is a sin is a sin... right?
> 
> Oranges aside... my point is, it seems as if many are trying to "preserve" something that has long been broken... And they are only trying to "preserve" it in one respect: homosexuality. If the main concern was *REALLY *"preserving" the "true" meaning of marriage (and not bigotry based on personal feelings), then* JUST as much energy should be put into being against divorce,* having children out of wedlock, and being married without having children... because it all goes against the "true" meaning of marriage... I mean, if that is REALLY the actual concern...



Shimmie as well....
I got distracted and forgot that point.  There was one senator who proposed making divorce much tougher.  I can't remember who that was or his state but I don't think it was based upon his religious beliefs, rather  upon social problems of divorce.  I thought it might be an interesting point.  Thanks for mentioning that.


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## makeupgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> makeupgirl....   Thank you for sharing this in Truth with God's Word and most of all.... in love.  :Rose:
> 
> Your post is very gentle speaking God's truth.



Thanks Ms. Shimmie.


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## makeupgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> *Romans 3:4* Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
> 
> 
> God tells us to search the scriptures for ourselves & learn what is true and what isn't.
> ...



No worries Ladybelle...we're all sisters here and it's cool we can come here to fellowship with one another in love.


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## Shimmie (Feb 15, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Well, why didn't you say you did?    I've heard it both ways and there is a govt. study on incest...I aim to get that stat and ask my sociologist friend about it.  I'm not sure it's elevated simply with gay parents.
> 
> People have this notion that a gay couple turn their desires on the child.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you asked ...'What about heterosexuals?'

Only a sexual deviant would sexually molest a child.  And there are scores upon scores of so-called heterosexuals who commit _homosexual _ molestation acts upon their 'sons', nephews, neighbor's son.... ?????

Heterosexuals?  I've heard way too many homosexuals and pro-gays, proclaim that any man who performs a gay act is gay in denial or D/L . erplexed

See this is how the gays argue their cause.  They change it back/forth from hetero to homosexual to find just cause.   

However, *I do not like *making gays look like the big bad wolf any more than I would want that for non-gays.  That is *not* my point here neither my reason for this thread.  I still respect them as human beings... for human they are.

The bottom line is that gay marriage *is not *justified no matter what 'reasons' are given.  In order to justify such, it must be placed on the same level and definition as that of a man and a woman and there is absolutely *no* comparison in any means.  

The gay agenda is solely based upon having 'same gender sex' accepted as the 'norm' which is not valid for legislation.


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Just because a gay person wants to 'marry' because they 'love' someone, does not make it valid.  *What they feel is not the same as what a man and a woman feel.  *
> 
> What they feel are _'same sex' attractions _and it is not the same as the love between a man and a woman, which therefore does not give just cause for them to have the same priviledges of marriage.
> 
> Thanks again for sharing...   :Rose:




Yes, they do, especially when they love the soul of that person.  But that's beside the point of your thread, though.  Do you have a committee together?  You know, if I had it to do all over again (impossible..cuz this is where I was supposed to be at this point in time), I would have done government and run for tribal council.


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## Prudent1 (Feb 15, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> Question: Why is a homosexual marriage the *ULTIMATE *betrayal of the true meaning of marriage? Why is that betrayal more horrible than, say, infidelity or having children out of wedlock? Most Christians are taught that no "sin" weighs more heavily than another. A sin is a sin is a sin... right?
> 
> Oranges aside... my point is, it seems as if many are trying to "preserve" something that has long been broken... And they are only trying to "preserve" it in one respect: homosexuality. If the main concern was *REALLY *"preserving" the "true" meaning of marriage (and not bigotry based on personal feelings), *then JUST as much energy should be put into being against divorce, having children out of wedlock, and being married without having children... because it all goes against the "true" meaning of* *marriage*... I mean, if that is REALLY the actual concern...


 ITA w/ the bolded. I don't think these other marriage offenders are lesser sins b/c they are committed by heterosexuals. They do _all_ go against the true meaning of marriage. I think we were responding on the issue of homosexual relations b/c of Shimmie's OP. I do think divorces etc are too easy to come by.

*Volver_Alma_Gitana* 
*"One cannot legislate salvation" *very true (nor morality) otherwise we would not have free will. I respect your opinion and your desire to see some other form of data supporting another view. I hope that we can agree that each believer's walk is different even though the final destination is the same. I operate under the premise that I don't have to know or understand everything to accept the fact that the 'thing' itself may not be good, pleasing to God. Oftentimes for _me_ the Holy spirit fills in the gaps of what is not explicity stated. That is the nature of our relationship- I ask, he leads me to truth. It's the his ways are higher than my ways line of thought...


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> I'm glad you asked ...'What about heterosexuals?'
> 
> *Only a sexual deviant would sexually molest a child.* * And there are scores upon scores of so-called heterosexuals who commit homosexual * molestation acts upon their 'sons', nephews, neighbor's son.... ?????
> 
> ...




That's interesting because I saw a report on this and they say that pedophiles are not homosexuals...a category unto themselves...a gay act is with an adult.  It wasn't through a gay agenda... psychologists.  They just commit same-sex sexual crimes but the target is a child, male or female.  Being a sexual deviant as in a criminal or dangerous person is not the same as being gay.  I don't want to make you uncomfortable...but it's just physically sex.  Shrugs.  We're using the term as  something dangerous...by force upon someone who is young/doesn't wish it.  Two consenting adults ... they are consenting.  It's also  been around for a very long time in history so that's another consideration in the meaning of that term.  I think there needs to be a distinction between danger and difference.  Gays are not walking around having desirous feelings towards children.  Example?  Mothers have children.  She has boys and girls.  When her sons reach near adulthood, does an Oedipus complex evolve naturally?  No.     

Marriage...I'm wondering if there is an alternative name with the same social benefits afforded where marriage can be defined as between a man/woman and gay rights are afforded with like-status.


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## Crown (Feb 15, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Where are they?  It's not about reasoning with non-believers, nor judging anybody...remember, that is not my church culture.  But a letter to a legislator should provide hard facts.  I'm simply asking where they are.  It's rather *ridiculous* to suggest that an entire population will "become" gay.  I'm talking about actual, factual disadvantages to those in traditional marriage is same-sex marriage is granted full status and rights.  Where are the presentable facts for legislators?  They don't make laws based upon "pastor X says..."  They just don't.  But they do listen to valid public concerns that are backed up by evidences of harm done.  The spiritual realm is not the business of my government as it's up to me.  However, public safety etc...that's the real of government.  If some are so against same-sex and know that the way to get to their legislators is to organize a certain way, then why are they not doing so?  Just blaming someone for not holding the same religious beliefs is ineffective, imho.
> 
> As far as being born with the tendency...the human being is so complex, christians don't have the definitive answer because G-d hasn't given one on WHY it happens.  He just gives us guidelines on how to live.  Obviously, He knew it would happen beforehand.  When we make up reasons, isn't that relying upon emotions...the same argument used against the LGBT community?



It’s not ridiculous, Volver_Alma_Gitana, it’s a picture. Let me tell you that this picture helps to save many gays from their lifestyle (but I agree that they were already in Church).

The key of my post : reproduction.
I think our leaders can understand this point.
But In this case, I would prefer to stand by my personal spiritual conviction.

For example, how to explain to others that prayers are important?


Smiley82, marriage is not just a contract, it’s a covenant made by the Most High (not by humans). 
The meaning of marriage is very very profound and ultimately it involves the very nature of GOD. 
[FONT=&quot]Just because many have failed in marriage that does not change the essence of marriage, man and woman.[/FONT]


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Crown said:


> It’s not ridiculous, Volver_Alma_Gitana, it’s a picture. Let me tell you that this picture helps to save many gays from their lifestyle (but I agree that they were already in Church).
> 
> The key of my post : reproduction.
> I think our leaders can understand this point.
> ...




I apologize, no offense meant.  It was to the argument, not because it was your personal view...I should not have used such a strong word directly.


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## Shimmie (Feb 15, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> Question: Why is a homosexual marriage the *ULTIMATE *betrayal of the true meaning of marriage? Why is that betrayal more horrible than, say, infidelity or having children out of wedlock? Most Christians are taught that no "sin" weighs more heavily than another. A sin is a sin is a sin... right?
> 
> *Oranges aside... my point is, it seems as if many are trying to "preserve" something that has long been broken... *
> 
> And they are only trying to "preserve" it in one respect: homosexuality. If the main concern was *REALLY *"preserving" the "true" meaning of marriage (and not bigotry based on personal feelings), then JUST as much energy should be put into being against divorce, having children out of wedlock, and being married without having children... because it all goes against the "true" meaning of marriage... I mean, if that is REALLY the actual concern...



Hey Smiley... I'm glad you asked:  

Gay marriage is indeed the ultimate of disrespect for marriage, as it mocks 'whom God has joined together...'  

Angel, God does not join two of the same gender in Holy Matrimony.  Man did not originate marriage, God did, therefore man does not have the right to alter it, no matter what man has done to disrespect it. 

Gay marriage only adds to the disrespect of God's holy union between a man and a woman and there are far more marriages between a man and a woman that are wholesome and honorable before God then those that are not. 

As for homosexuality being a sin as any other sin. 
Indeed it is.  Jesus took this very same sin and nailed to the Cross as He did all other sins.  

However, homosexuality, is 'unrepented' sin when one chooses to stay witnin it.  People stop committing adultery, people repent from lying, people repent from out of wedlock pregnancies... therefore in like manner, gays can repent from being a homosexual.  It's been redeemed just as every other sin.  And there are many, many, MANY gays who have done so and are serving God with all of their hearts...no longer living the gay lifestyle.    

There is not per person of God's Church going before legistation, nor any Church that is under the Holy Order of God, which condones or legalizes adultery, out of wedlock pregnancies.   

So when you ask 'what about'... those sins', no one is condoning them.  The only persons condoning sexual sin are those who support and are fighting for gay marriage. 

Come on, Smiley... you know there is no condoning of adultery, out of wedlock pregnacies, etc. and the Church has ALWAYS made this perfectly clear.  It is only when the Church has taken a stand against gay marriage that these false claims have been made against Christians and the Church, as an excuse to justify gays marrying.   

That's using a feather to slice a tomato.  :Rose:

I'm not trying to offend you; I welcome you, your comments and your questions...


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## Shimmie (Feb 15, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> That's interesting because I saw a report on this and they say that pedophiles are not homosexuals...a category unto themselves...a gay act is with an adult.  It wasn't through a gay agenda... psychologists.  They just commit same-sex sexual crimes but the target is a child, male or female.  Being a sexual deviant as in a criminal or dangerous person is not the same as being gay.  I don't want to make you uncomfortable...but it's just physically sex.  Shrugs.  We're using the term as  something dangerous...by force upon someone who is young/doesn't wish it.  Two consenting adults ... they are consenting.  It's also  been around for a very long time in history so that's another consideration in the meaning of that term.  I think there needs to be a distinction between danger and difference.  Gays are not walking around having desirous feelings towards children.  Example?  Mothers have children.  She has boys and girls.  When her sons reach near adulthood, does an Oedipus complex evolve naturally?  No.
> 
> Marriage...I'm wondering if there is an alternative name with the same social benefits afforded where marriage can be defined as between a man/woman and gay rights are afforded with like-status.



There are gay and heterosexual Pediphiles ... some prefer 'same sex' divient acts and others prefer opposite sex or both. 

Pedophilia is not a heterosexual sin... only.   

Regardless...it is horrific and demonic no matter what sexual sense it comes from.


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## SmileyNY (Feb 15, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Hey Smiley... I'm glad you asked:
> 
> Gay marriage is indeed the ultimate of disrespect for marriage, as it mocks 'whom God has joined together...'
> 
> ...



No worries. You definitely haven't offended me. Colorful language & emoticons don't get to me... only facts and logical reasoning. I simply disagree with the way you view things and feel that there are many holes in your explanation. From what I've read, I see that YOU view homosexual marriage as the ultimate betrayal... but you have to realize, that is simply your interpretation and simply an OPINION. I was raised a christian... God views all sin as equal. Period.  

I never said those things were condoned, I'm saying people like you put a lot of energy into being against homosexuality when, if your concerns were really about the sanctity of marriage, you would be MORE upset about how many millions and millions of people defy the "true" meaning of marriage every. single. day. If preserving the sanctity of marriage is your TRUE concern... homosexuality is the LEAST of your worries. You don't have to worry about homosexuals ruining God's intent for marriage. Heterosexuals already have. Get upset about that.


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> There are gay and heterosexual Pediphiles ... some prefer 'same sex' divient acts and others prefer opposite sex or both.
> 
> Pedophilia is not a heterosexual sin... only.
> 
> Regardless...it is horrific and demonic no matter what sexual sense it comes from.




The point is that if you're gay, doesn't mean you desire to harm a child or rape somebody.  Pedophilia seeks to do sexual harm and gain domination over a child, any child, period.  I guess that some target weaknesses in females over males and vice-versa.  Again, heterosexuals abuse children.  Being gay doesn't mean you are predisposed to raping kids. Pedophilia is another mindset. 

Well, after this, I'm reading only, until I feel compelled to respond.  I'll be listening on the sidelines for the outcome.  It's actually offensive to suggest that a gay person is predisposed to harming another physically simply by being gay when you enter a relationship through consent with another adult.  I suppose people are imagining gay parents doing it in front of the kids or groping the child and whatnot.    It doesn't happen.  They are just as loving and respectful as other parents.  My mom and dad didn't do anything inappropriate in front of us...and I'm technically bi.  Go figure.  I never thought to harm a child either and I hope someone wouldn't be scared for me to be around them (women) or around their kids, esp. since I have 4. Oh well...towards the silent feature...


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## Shimmie (Feb 15, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> The point is that if you're gay, doesn't mean you desire to harm a child or rape somebody.  Pedophilia seeks to do sexual harm and gain domination over a child, any child, period.
> 
> I guess that some target weaknesses in females over males and vice-versa.  Again, heterosexuals abuse children.  Being gay doesn't mean you are predisposed to raping kids. Pedophilia is another mindset.
> 
> ...



Volver... this is what I said and you quoted my comment as well...

*There are gay and heterosexual Pediphiles ... some prefer 'same sex' divient acts and others prefer opposite sex or both.

Pedophilia is not a heterosexual sin... only.

Regardless...it is horrific and demonic no matter what sexual sense it comes from. *

What I see more and more from gay marriage supporters is the constant attempt to attack and to downgrade 'heterosexual relationships'.   

Sweetie, you repeatedly comment that 'heterosexuals' are pedophiles, implying that a homosexual could never be guilty of such.   

Let's be honest, sexual perversions come from 'both', not just the one.  

And I will be the first to apologize publicly and to retract any and every statement that I have made to imply or to say that 'ALL' gays are pedophiles.  That is an unfair assessment for me or anyone else to make.  But it is just as unfair for gay supporters to lay the same claim upon heterosexuals.   It makes no sense.   Pedophilia is a demonic act which comes from both sexual dispositions.  The crime lies in both camps of sexual activity.  

My parents were also respectful around me and my sisters when displaying affection towards one another.   To be honest, I never saw anything remotely out of order sexually until 'Cable TV', including the language.  

The bottom line is that gays do not want opposition of any kind.  Their arguments are just that...do not disagree with them.  This is what they want and that's it.     

If an old lady can die and leave her millions to her pet dog, without any opposition or revoking of the will, then why can't gays do the same?  

Isn't it selfish for them to fight for the right to include their lover on their insurance and yet what happens to other non-gay individuals who need the same benefit?   It's a selfish battle they are fighting.   

Anyone can obtain an Advanced Medical Directive, which allows whoever they choose to appoint, to make medical decisions for them if they are unable and/or to make sure that their medical requests are carried out.  

In addition, a Power of Attorney can also be drawn to appoint a person of one's choice to handle their financial and personal affairs.  Any person, gay or straight, can draw and place into their wills whoever they want to benefit.   It does need a gay marriage for any of a gay person's choice of appointee, or beneficiary, to be legally bond and secure.   It is a legal right which cannot be denied.  

I'm telling you what's going to happen.  The day is coming when gay marriage will be repealed and all of the fight and efforts put into this will be of no avail and all in vain.   They will endure the loss of what they thought they have gained.    There's a principle and a spiritual law which no one can change and it is the law of reciprocity.   Legislation or not, God takes back what belongs to Him and there isn't a thing that anyone can do about it.

Everything you've shared is based upon man and not God.  Your foundation is unstable, for man is unstable.  No matter what legislation may pass, if it doesn't have God to back it up, it cannot stand.   

He is going to set in place those who will do His will and not the will of man.  It's Biblical prophesy and nothing is going to stop it from taking place. 

And please know that I say all of this in peace.  I'm not angry, neither am I contentious.   I care about everyone, but my call in life to be in God's will and not man's.  God rules, not man.  

Peace and blessings and I mean this sincerely.  :Rose:


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## Laela (Feb 15, 2011)

So  worthy of repeating.... this is the Christian Forum and it's clear why Shimmie preferred to have this conversation here... not to lose sight of what really is going on ..the BIG PICTURE, if you will.





makeupgirl said:


> No believer in Christ should ever expect you or anyone else to hate another human being.  Christ is in us, the hope of glory and when we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then the more we grow in Christ we are going to learn why God says what he says in the bible. He loves all mankind and he is love according to 1 John 4:7.  In 1 John, it also tells us to love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.  We're in the world, but no longer of the world.  It takes ongoing growth to recognize what the Lord thinks about a situation according to his word and what we as the individual thinks.
> 
> But also, you're right, we can't fight what appears to be happening or what's to come as far as the world goes.  That's going to happen regardless.  Doesn't mean we have to submit ourselves to what's going on.  Satan wants us to submit to worldly events based on equality and so-called world peace when he really wants total and complete domination.  He knows what we know that the bible is infallible and 100% true, so of course he's going to up the ante by place his demons of doubts, fears, and unbelief, and most of all confusion.  God is not an author of confusion, so whenever that is confusion and frustration in the mix, know that it is of Satan and it is not going to work out for anyone's good except Satan himself.
> 
> God loves all people, he just hate the sin.  So are we suppose to oppose that?  If we who believe in him and have a relationship, as we are his children, shouldn't we be willing to take his side and hate the very things that he hates?  I would think so.


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## Shimmie (Feb 15, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> No worries. You definitely haven't offended me. Colorful language & emoticons don't get to me... only facts and logical reasoning.
> 
> I simply disagree with the way you view things and feel that there are many holes in your explanation. From what I've read, I see that YOU view homosexual marriage as the ultimate betrayal... but you have to realize, that is simply your interpretation and simply an OPINION. I was raised a christian... God views all sin as equal. Period.
> 
> ...



People like me.....?   

It's true, Smiley; I am something else, that's for certain.   

You're a sweetheart and I mean this.   

What I'm sharing here is truly in love and not to offend nor will I allow anyone else to offend you.  

Smiley, you say that you are interested only in the facts and logical reasoning.   Yet you are repeating comments about the Church which are not facts, neither logical, but false comments which are also canned responses from gay marriage supporters.    

Smiley.... there isn't a Church that I know of and I know MANY and the Body of Christ does indeed put full force -- the energy in the sanctity of marriage.   AND it is successful and productive.     

I don't know what Church you attend or what the teachings are, however only because you assume that Christians and the Church are not addressing other sins of life, and putting their energies into gay issues only, is a huge misconception.    

The Body of Christ is indeed addressing 'all' sin which includes, homosexuality and gay marriage.     You can only be repeating what you hear from other gay marriage supporters who are also misinformed; and have not witnessed the Truth or simply wish to ignore the Truth to strengthen their case.  

But hey... that's what battles consist of misconceptions on all sides. 

The truth is this.   Christians are those who have a mind and most of all the heart to follow Jesus.   Like it or not, you have to be sold out.   Jesus said, we are to take up our Cross and follow Him.  

This means selling out to Jesus and not to man.   You say you disagree with 'my' views, yet they are not 'my' views; they are God's views which I do agree with.    Whether you agree or disagree, it is not going to change into what you want it to be.   It's just not. 

The reason you disagree is because you are not 'there', you are not sold out to Jesus.  Smiley...being sold out to Jesus means we take Him at His word and believe it, at whatever the cost.    

You disagree because you are not sold out to Him.  You're not under the Truth otherwise you would know that Jesus, Himself did not ordain neither did He entertain gay marriage.

You're not a bad person, you've simply laid your allegiance unto 'man' and not God.   It's a human trait, 'we've' all done it; but sooner or later, we have to come to this.... "Choose you this day whom you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." 

Loving a person is not allowing them to stay in sin.  We minister God's love to them and allow God to rescue them.  :Rose:  

Peace and blessings to you...


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## Shimmie (Feb 15, 2011)

Another Powerful Thread .... connecting message.

PinkPebbles

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?p=12848625#post12848625


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## SmileyNY (Feb 15, 2011)

Obviously I'm talking about outside of the church. Hmm... When was the last time I saw a group of Christians gathered to publicly protest infidelity, children born out of wedlock, and/or married people who choose not to procreate as God intended...? I'm going with never. I'm not saying they don't happen, but if they do, they're so infrequent that nobody remembers or hears about it in the first place. 

When was the last time I saw a group of Christians gathered to protest gay marriage? About every other day. 

All sins being equal, you know what God also strongly disapproves of? Judgement. Not allowing 2 consenting adults of sound mind to make their own decisions about who they want to marry is judgement. If you think it's a sin and a betrayal. Fine. Let them make their own decision. Who are we to make the decision for them. Honor marriage the way you feel you need to in your life... but don't judge others by trying to dictate what you feel they should do & how you think they should live their lives. Judgement is not your job. Let God do his work. He's fully capable. 


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Guitarhero (Feb 15, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Sweetie, you repeatedly comment that 'heterosexuals' are pedophiles, implying that a homosexual could never be guilty of such.
> 
> Let's be honest, sexual perversions come from 'both', not just the one.
> *
> ...



At the implication...and "they" do xyz...implying that all do xyz....and actually my foundation is quite stable because it's not founded upon any man.  I guess I thought the thread was about giving advice on how  best to contact a legislator regarding an issue toward a desired outcome.  Simply, there are christians who do not hold your point of view and they aren't any less spiritual.  Shrugs.  

I once had an issue with Plan B pill at the pharmacy and giving it out.  I spoke with someone in the church about it who is in authority and the words given to me shocked me.  I was to fulfill my job as it is a man's free will to make that choice and know that I did not cause that person to make the decision.  It's a bit extreme and folks could pull another analogy of giving a suicidal person a gun...not the same, however.  I think you missed the part where I said that perhaps they could be afforded the same rights while the definition of marriage remained traditional.


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## Shimmie (Feb 16, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> Obviously I'm talking about outside of the church. Hmm... When was the last time I saw a group of Christians gathered to publicly protest infidelity, children born out of wedlock, and/or married people who choose not to procreate as God intended...? I'm going with never. I'm not saying they don't happen, but if they do, they're so infrequent that nobody remembers or hears about it in the first place.
> 
> When was the last time I saw a group of Christians gathered to protest gay marriage? About every other day.
> 
> ...



Awwww Smiley...  

If only all of this support was for the Kingdom of God and not the sins and the whims of man. *sigh*

I can promise you that I was never in any of those parades; I spend most of my time in Ministry praying with and 'for' people be they gay or straight. And it's not just me, but I can assure you that the majority of the members in this forum are here and do much more to help others get through their life, let alone just through the day. 

You have a heart for humanity and your dedication is admirable, yet it's misdirected.  You can't allow yourself to be upset because gay marriage is not accepted. And truly no one is judging them and taking anything away from them.   Only the Truth is being presented and the Truth is ... God is not promoting gay marriages.  It's not Him, or of Him.  We have to care more about their souls than giving them a deeper well of sin to be in.  To approve gay marriage is to approve the sin of homosexuality. It's not about the life they want now, it is about the 'after life' which everyone has to face what is truly 'Judgement'.  

God wants far more for gays than legislative ploys as well as parades either for or against them.  He wants to them to receive their salvation which is bought and paid for. 

I would be more concerned about their happiness in Jesus than a license to live in sin and leading others therein. 

:Rose:  Peace and blessings...


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## SmileyNY (Feb 16, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Awwww Smiley...
> 
> If only all of this support was for the Kingdom of God and not the sins and the whims of man. *sign*
> 
> ...



As I said before, God is capable. Let him do his job & stop judging others. While you're busy wagging your finger at the "sins of the whims of man," God is only expecting you to keep your OWN existence righteous and frowns heavily upon your judgement of others. 


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Shimmie (Feb 16, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> At the implication...and "they" do xyz...implying that all do xyz....and actually my foundation is quite stable because it's not founded upon any man.
> 
> I guess I thought the thread was about giving advice on how  best to contact a legislator regarding an issue toward a desired outcome.
> 
> ...



Hey Volver... I'm shrugging too.  Especially at the bolded, that 'there are other Christians who do not hold 'my' view.  

Well, why am I not surprised?   

I'm standing upon the Word of God... not the unshared views of _other Christians _who are clearly standing upon their 'own' view and not God's Word. 

We cannot play 'criss/cross' with God's order...  homosexuality is a 'criss/cross of gender purpose which is outside of God's order...therefore indeed ... so is... gay marriage. 

Anyone who says they are Christian and yet supports gay marriage is not stablized upon God's Word.  They've chosen to disbelieve what God has ordained.  No matter what reasonings they present for the support of it... God is not changing his order.    

The Bible speaks clearly about homosexuality  ...  it is not God's will.  Anyone who disagrees are actually disagreeing with God.  Not me. 

End of story... :Rose: 

Blessings and I mean this sincerely.


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## Shimmie (Feb 16, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> As I said before, God is capable. Let him do his job & stop judging others. While you're busy wagging your finger at the "sins of the whims of man," God is only expecting you to keep your OWN existence righteous and frowns heavily upon your judgement of others.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using LHCF



Okay...

Now if I was wagging my finger at Christians   AND If I were promoting gay marriage...there'd be a whole nuther post.... you'd be happy Smiley. 

Praise God.


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## Prudent1 (Feb 16, 2011)

Hey Shimmie (and everyone else),
Bob Dutko (A well known Christian Apologist) is speaking today on the difference between judging a person's _*heart*_ (which we cannot and are instructed not to do) and speaking up against watered down acceptance of sins (which we are told to do as Christ's representatives here on earth). I thought it fitting to post a link here considering our current conversation. I hope this link works b/c I cannot test it from my current location. Even if it doesn't, I think it is worth googling his show from today to clear up another tool often used as a distraction- the accusation of judging. He also discusses something we've said here. The fact that_ really _loving a person does not mean making excuses for their wrong behavior so as not to offend them. It  does mean we know how to speak the truth in love.
Listen to The Bob Dutko Show online


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## Shimmie (Feb 16, 2011)

*My Observations on this subject ...*

There is truly a Spirit of Disorder against God.

And I KNOW that God does not have 'Christians' supporting gay marriage...

What a massive wave of deception.   Folks are falling like flies on the wayside and not standing upon the Word of God. 

Dear Father in Heaven... Please make yourself known to those who are lost in this perilous web of confusion.   

I love you, Lord and I am not backing out on you. 

In Jesus' Name... Amen and Amen. :Rose:


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## SmileyNY (Feb 16, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Okay...
> 
> Now if I was wagging my finger at Christians   AND If I were promoting gay marriage...there'd be a whole nuther post.... you'd be happy Smiley.
> 
> Praise God.



I don't promote judging period. You don't have to promote gay marriage. You can believe whatever you want... for your life. The problem develops when those views & beliefs are forced upon others. God gave us free will for a reason. We should let other sound minded adults live their lives as they choose and marry as they please. As long as they are not hurting others, the ONLY one that they should have to answer to is God. Not you or any other mortal who wants to judge. 


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Shimmie (Feb 16, 2011)

Prudent1 said:


> Hey Shimmie (and everyone else),
> 
> Bob Dutko (A well known Christian Apologist) is speaking today on the difference between judging a person's _*heart*_ (which we cannot and are instructed not to do) and speaking up against watered down acceptance of sins (which we are told to do as Christ's representatives here on earth). I thought it fitting to post a link here considering our current conversation.
> 
> ...



Hi Prudent1...   You have a wonderful flow with the Holy Spirit, who is always on time.   Thank you. 

While I didn't hear his message, the link works fine.     I'll be able to listen to the stream when I get home tonight. 

God said that 'The weapons of our warfare are not carnal' but are mighty through God by the pulling down of strongholds."    satan is not coming down without a fight, so yes there will be misconceptions that gays are being judged. It's satan's whisper to gay supporters, but I fear him not and I'm more than ready for him.    rayer:  

This past weekend we [our family prayer group] were having prayer and God just revealed just how powerful He will always be.  One of my cousins, who has been away from the Lord...came into the room and allowed us to pray with and for him.  It was an awesome move of God.  He knew what he needed to do and he flowed with the move of God upon his heart.  

This is what happens when we 'stand' without wavering upon God's word.  It's not judging, just standing upon the Word of God.   

Thanks again for sharing this link, Prudent1... :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Feb 16, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> I don't promote judging period. You don't have to promote gay marriage. You can believe whatever you want... for your life. The problem develops when those views & beliefs are forced upon others.
> 
> God gave us free will for a reason.  We should let other sound minded adults live their lives as they choose and marry as they please. As long as they are not hurting others, the ONLY one that they should have to answer to is God. Not you or any other mortal who wants to judge.
> 
> ...



Smiley, this is where it gets dangerous; the misconception of free will; when in truth it is the 'push' to change the meaning of marriage that is being forced upon society, which indeed does hurt others.  

It is by your own words, that you've already judged them....


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## SmileyNY (Feb 16, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Smiley, this is where it gets dangerous; the misconception of free will; when in truth it is the 'push' to change the meaning of marriage that is being forced upon society, which indeed does hurt others.
> 
> It is by your own words, that you've already judged them....



Who have I judged? Quote where I have personally judged. Be sure to look up the definition of judgement first. Thanks. What, exactly, is the original meaning of marriage? I know, I know, you feel that it should be between a man & a woman. But what else?? There has to be sooo much more to this definition. Whatever you feel the original meaning of marriage is, I'm sure it has already been changed and modified in modern times. Drastically. 

Unless you plan on marrying someone of the same sex, gay marriage has nothing to do with you and your personal life. If you let someone else's life that has nothing to do with you change the way you feel about marriage in your own life, that sounds like a personal problem. 


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Shimmie (Feb 16, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> Who have I judged? Quote where I have personally judged. Be sure to look up the definition of judgement first. Thanks. What, exactly, is the original meaning of marriage? I know, I know, you feel that it should be between a man & a woman. But what else??
> 
> There has to be sooo much more to this definition. Whatever you feel the original meaning of marriage is, I'm sure it has already been changed and modified in modern times. Drastically.
> 
> ...



Smiley... I'm asking this is the most gentle and respectful way.   At the bolded, is this your plan, to marry someone of the same sex?  Is this why it matters so much to you...in spite of God's Word which does not support it?   Is it a family member or close friend that you are standing up for?  It is purely understandable; for we protect those we love.  

I'm so sorry for any hurt or disruption you experience regarding this subject. It is not an easy issue to approach.  

The last thing I want is to hurt anyone.  My first love is Jesus Christ and it's *His* principles that I stand for.  

As a Christian my first dedication is God's Word, that's His command and it must be honored by those who call themselves Christians.  

Those who don't 'know' Him, do not understand, but in time, they will.  God Word says, the every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord.  

Be blessed...precious Smiley.  You may not believe this, but you are in my heart and I will pray for you as I do for those I love and care for. 

The devil is a liar and a master deceiver. I've been in this for a long, long time and I've learned his deceptions, quite well.  You are one that he will not have. The prayers are moving and all in love.  :Rose:


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## SmileyNY (Feb 16, 2011)

[Deleted because this post was posted several times during the LHCF server error]


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## SmileyNY (Feb 16, 2011)

[Deleted because this post was posted several times during the LHCF server error]


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## SmileyNY (Feb 16, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Smiley... I'm asking this is the most gentle and respectful way.   At the bolded, is this your plan, to marry someone of the same sex?  Is this why it matters so much to you...in spite of God's Word which does not support it?   Is it a family member or close friend that you are standing up for?  It is purely understandable; for we protect those we love.
> 
> I'm so sorry for any hurt or disruption you experience regarding this subject. It is not an easy issue to approach.
> 
> ...




I know it's hard to detect one's emotional state through text, however please be assured that I am not at all upset or offended. I am level-headed enough to have a healthy debate without letting it get personal. However, since you've asked a personal question... No, I am not gay. I am heterosexual. Now that we've gotten that out of the way...

You're right... the devil is a liar. He makes so many people feel as if they have the right to sit on high horses & judge others and he even makes them feel in their heart of hearts that they are doing it on Gods behalf. It's such a shame because God is not condescending, patronizing, or brash.  This is why all judgement should be left up to him... not mere mortals. We don't have the right. Period.


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## Guitarhero (Feb 16, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Hey Volver... I'm shrugging too.  Especially at the bolded, *that 'there are other Christians who do not hold 'my' view*.
> 
> Well, why am I not surprised?
> 
> ...



In the sense that there are other believers who would go about this issue differently from your interpretation.  Please define support of gay marriage.  You haven't established that I nor anyone else here supports it.  Your legislator supports traditional marriage yet is wise enough as an elected official to consider the rights of all members of his constituency(what he is bound by law to do).  He's an elected official who is to uphold the law for all members of society, not just the ones he likes.  

I was suggesting ways to reach the government in a more pragmatic way.  I know you take this to heart, as so many others.  I dunno, Shimmie, he's got to protect everybody, not just christians and I thought his concerns and compassion were evident by his email.  This is our pluralistic society.  I think they deserve the same rights and maybe that marriage should maintain it's traditional definition.  There are ways to accomplish that.


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## SmileyNY (Feb 16, 2011)

[Deleted because this post was posted several times during the LHCF server error]


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## Guitarhero (Feb 16, 2011)

anybody else get caught in the glitch?...disregard...


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## Guitarhero (Feb 16, 2011)

................................


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## Guitarhero (Feb 16, 2011)

...............................


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## Guitarhero (Feb 16, 2011)

..................


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## Guitarhero (Feb 17, 2011)

Looks like this thread is still glitchy...but anyhoo....


Shimmie, did your legislator get back to you?  Would he entertain a meeting with a group of you all?  What have you done to resolve it and further voice your concerns?  Have he contacted his constituency further?


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## Shimmie (Feb 17, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Looks like this thread is still glitchy...but anyhoo....
> 
> 
> Shimmie, did your legislator get back to you?  Would he entertain a meeting with a group of you all?  What have you done to resolve it and further voice your concerns?  Have he contacted his constituency further?



No, I haven't heard from him. 

HOWEVER, I've received several emails from other Representatives who have shared the following message:  



> _" Dear _______
> 
> Thank you for sharing your concerns regarding SB 116.
> 
> ...You will be happy to know that I OPPOSE this legislation.  Thank you for your email on this important issue. "_



Volver, I am purposely omitting the names of the Representatives who have contacted me, personally [from this post].   

Anyway, thanks for asking.  Out of wisdom, I'm being advised not to share too much of what has been shared with me.  

Yet it is encouraging.  :Rose:


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## Guitarhero (Feb 17, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> No, I haven't heard from him.
> 
> HOWEVER, I've received several emails from other Representatives who have shared the following message:
> 
> ...




I get that auto-message a lot too but I don't blame you for keeping it under wraps a bit.  It's important that people know they can contact their lawmakers...they were elected.  There's one of ours on whom  I sometimes struggle with wishing G-d would end his life.


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## Shimmie (Feb 17, 2011)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> I get that auto-message a lot too but I don't blame you for keeping it under wraps a bit.  It's important that people know they can contact their lawmakers...they were elected.  There's one of ours on whom  I sometimes struggle with wishing G-d would end his life.



Oh dear... that's a drastic measure...end his life...   Pray for his salvation, instead.  But I know you were just kidding...  

Although my box is filled with auto-responses, I have spoken directly with some very direct and honest Representatives from both sides of the issue.  I wanted to hear from them directly what their definition of equal rights entailed.  

The irony with a 'few' is that I know some of their Pastors...    And they know I know.  

I'm so glad my hope is in God and not man.  :Rose:


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