# Kira Johnson Spoke 5 Languages, Raced Cars. She Still Died In Childbirth.



## Always~Wear~Joy (Oct 19, 2018)

*Kira Johnson Spoke 5 Languages, Raced Cars, Was Daughter in Law of Judge Glenda Hatchett. She Still Died in Childbirth.*



Angela Helm
33 minutes ago
Filed to:BLACK MATERNAL MORTALITY
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Kira Johnson
Screenshot: YouTube
By all accounts, Kira Johnson could be described as a phenomenal woman. She traveled extensively, spoke five languages, and even raced cars with her adoring husband of 10 years right by her side.

The mother of one son, 19-month-old Charles Johnson V, Kira and her husband were ecstatic when they found out they were having another boy—they had wanted two back to back.

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According to her husband Charles Johnson IV, who is the son of Judge Glenda Hatchett, of the nationally syndicated reality court TV show Judge Hatchett, Kira never missed a prenatal appointment and was in excellent health.

On April 12, 2016, she gave birth to Langston Johnson at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center hospital in Los Angeles, a world renowned health center, but Charles noticed that she was having a difficult recovery. 11 Alive reports:

He noticed blood in Kira’s catheter. He said he brought it to the attention of the nurses and doctors, and the staff ordered a CT scan.

“That was supposed to be performed STAT,” Charles said. “In my mind, I’m thinking, ‘That means immediately.’”

Charles said he repeatedly asked the medical staff for help, but waited for hours.

“She’s beginning to tremble uncontrollably,” Charles recalled. “She’s beginning to shake. She’s beginning to be in increasingly more pain. She’s becoming sensitive to the touch. There’s still no CT scan.”

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Charles said a CT was never performed, and they waited seven hours before doctors took her back for an internal exam.

When they finally did so, Charles said doctors told him “‘She’ll be back in 15 minutes,’” he said. “And that was the last time I saw Kira alive.”

Kira’s cause of death was from a hemorrhage. Charles said doctors found three liters of blood in Kira’s stomach and her heart stopped.

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Kira is but one of the hundreds of black women who die in childbirth each year—at rates that dwarf those of their white counterparts—regardless of socioeconomic standing, education or marital status (see Serena Williams’ near-death experience in childbirth or the new report that black women in Illinois are six times more likely to die in childbirth than their white counterparts.)




*Black moms in Illinois 6 times more likely to die from pregnancy-related conditions*


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As Linda Villarosa reported in her seminal piece earlier this year, “Why America’s Black Mothers and Babies Are in a Life-or-Death Crisis,” the disparity in black women dying in childbirth (which one might have assumed was something from the 19thcentury) has been an issue for at least a century:

Black women are three to four times as likely to die from pregnancy-related causes as their white counterparts, according to the C.D.C. — a disproportionate rate that is higher than that of Mexico, where nearly half the population lives in poverty — and as with infants, the high numbers for black women drive the national numbers.

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11 Alive reports that for every 13 white women who die during pregnancy or within one year of giving birth, there are 44 black women. More than half of all deaths have been deemed preventable by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The reasons for this disparity, which has been studied and debated by researchers and doctors for more than two decades, is not definitely clear, but there is growing evidence that the toxicity of racism—both in the lives of black women and in the medical establishment—plays a large part.

“For black women in America, an inescapable atmosphere of societal and systemic racism can create a kind of toxic physiological stress, resulting in conditions — including hypertension and pre-eclampsia — that lead directly to higher rates of infant and maternal death,” the article states.







People reports that on March 22 of this year, Charles filed a medical malpractice lawsuit against Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, claiming that malpractice in that the medical team did not respond to Kira’s escalating issues in a timely manner.

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Two years after Johnson’s death, Cedars-Sinai Hospital recently released the following statement:

Kira Johnson’s death was a tragedy. Her husband, Charles S. Johnson IV, is demonstrating important leadership in raising awareness of preventable maternal deaths. Cedars-Sinai strongly agrees with Mr. Johnson and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists that no mother should die giving birth.

While federal privacy laws prevent us from responding directly about any patient’s care without written authorization, we can share the following: One of the reasons for Cedars-Sinai’s high quality of care is that we thoroughly investigate any situation where there are concerns about a patient’s medical care. Based on our findings, we make any changes that are needed so that we can continue to provide the highest quality care to our patients. This includes reviewing hospital procedures as well as the competency of healthcare providers.

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Judge Hatchett, who lives with her son and her two grandsons, believes Kira’s death could have been prevented.

“They researched, they were in Los Angeles, they knew that Cedar Sinai was a world-class hospital and after she died, they said ‘Oh, had we gotten her back to the operating room she would be perfectly fine. Oh if we had...’ Well, why the hell didn’t they?” Hatchett told 11 Alive. “It was not that she was sick, it’s not that she had a preexisting condition, that she had a heart problem or she had a blood clot, none of that was Kira’s case.”

“We walked in for what we expected to be the happiest day of our life. And we walked straight into a nightmare,” Charles, now an activist in preventing maternal deaths, especially for black women, said to 11 Alive, “I sit awake at nights thinking maybe I should have grabbed somebody by the collar, maybe I should’ve turned a table over, would that have made a difference? Even two years later, I still can’t make sense of it in my mind.”

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## intellectualuva (Oct 19, 2018)

Hospitals do not listen to the concerns of BW. That poor man and their babies.


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## Brownie (Oct 19, 2018)

Always~Wear~Joy said:


> *Kira Johnson Spoke 5 Languages, Raced Cars, Was Daughter in Law of Judge Glenda Hatchett. She Still Died in Childbirth.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Feel bad for the husband...in my case and my family, I’m not going to sit there and wait hours for you to do something STAT; you will be hearing from me every 1/2 hour or more, until my loved one gets the needed care. I agree with what others have said; you have to be the squeaky wheel and advocate for yourself and your family. Don’t assume the doctors/nurses will automatically give you 100%.


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## nysister (Oct 19, 2018)

Oh my heavens. That poor woman. She deserved better. Sigh, this hurt my heart.


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## nysister (Oct 19, 2018)

Sometimes you have to make people hear you. It shouldn't fall upon the patient or their family to do that, but sometimes you have to. Never be afraid to be an advocate for your health or of those you love ladies.

My very mild husband was 2 minutes from ripping apart a medical office when he thought a procedure I'd gone through had went wrong and they weren't telling him. It's okay to say "sorry" later.


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## Chicoro (Oct 19, 2018)

If you've just given birth and you don't feel right go to the hospital. Since racism  and stereotyping are part of this, i say leverage it and use it. Not getting a the service you need?

It's time to get GHETTO! Act ugly, or have a family member act out and ugly on your behalf.

You can say you're sorry once you are well. You will be forever silenced if you are dead.


STOP the killing! For every 13 white women who die in childbirth related situations,44 black women die.

I truly believe these statistics will not change for the better until more black women are doctors.


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## theRaven (Oct 19, 2018)

That poor woman. I'm tearing up just reading this. I don't understand how
 they had her waiting for hours for a CT scan?


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## Crackers Phinn (Oct 19, 2018)

See, that's crazy because all of my hypochondria is treated at Cedars and my mother was treated at Cedars.   I get everything that I ask for including drugs that I'm probably not supposed to get.  I feel bad for the family because this woman's death seems to have been preventable.  I'm not going to berate the husband. It was a high stress situation and he probably took a leap of faith that the health care providers in a first rate, top dollar place wouldn't let the medical care get to the kind of sloppy that ended up happening. 

I'm tripping because if you can't trust Cedars then throw all the LA hospitals away cuz it is literally the standard. 

Since I am driven by the fear of having every disease known to man and beast, I will question tf outta the doctors, nurses, candy stripers, etc.  and make sure they know that they ain't go quit hearing my mouth until I understand exactly why whatever I'm inquiring about won't kill me.


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## Brownie (Oct 19, 2018)

nysister said:


> Sometimes you have to make people hear you. It shouldn't fall upon the patient or their family to do that, but sometimes you have to. Never be afraid to be an advocate for your health or of those you love ladies.
> 
> My very mild husband was 2 minutes from ripping apart a medical office when he thought a procedure I'd gone through had went wrong and they weren't telling him. It's okay to say "sorry" later.



...like not enough. My DH is fairly mild also; going to remind him today to “unmild” himself if I’m ever in the hospital.


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## Chicoro (Oct 19, 2018)

Crackers Phinn said:


> See, that's crazy because all of my hypochondria is treated at Cedars and my mother was treated at Cedars. [...]
> 
> Since I am driven by the fear of having every disease known to man and beast, *I will question tf outta the doctors, nurses, candy stripers, etc.  and make sure they know that they ain't go quit hearing my mouth until I understand exactly why whatever I'm inquiring about won't kill me*.



Black women in the US, in general, are *high context*. That means that we like a lot of detail and information, especially from the doctor. I know I can't speak for you, but asking a lot of questions is very common for black woman.


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## Theresamonet (Oct 19, 2018)

I think a lot of black women (and men) lack assertiveness and are positively timid, when outside of their own community (i.e. in the presence of white people). They don't want to cause a ruckus and question authority. Many think being assertive is synonymous with being ghetto or that you have to get ghetto to be assertive.


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## TCatt86 (Oct 20, 2018)

Chicoro said:


> Black women in the US, in general, are *high context*. That means that we like a lot of detail and information, especially from the doctor. I know I can't speak for you, but asking a lot of questions is very common for black woman.


you know I never thought of that. I remember when I was pregnant every appointment I had my book. I would right out odd things that happened and questions I had anything yhe doctor said. Well my OB ( black woman) never seemed to mention it. One appointment she had an emergency like OBs often do and I had yo see the white female doctor in her office and as soon as I sat down and got my book out, she said "Dr. Hider told me you'd have your book" i never even thought it was anything that needed to be noted


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## TCatt86 (Oct 20, 2018)

Theresamonet said:


> I think a lot of black women (and men) lack assertiveness and are positively timid, when outside of their own community (i.e. in the presence of white people). They don't want to cause a ruckus and question authority. Many think being assertive is synonymous with being ghetto or that you have to get ghetto to be assertive.


Because whenever we get a little passionate we become a threat. We are never allowed to be angry, scared, in pain and express. So we are conditioned to temper ourselves down in mixed company to avoid having law enforcement called on us.


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## SpiritJunkie (Oct 20, 2018)

There's a Nielsen Research data that came out recently that states African Americans are the most informed ethinic group that craves information and over index on the rest of the population. 

That being said....speak up...we know more than we think!!

The conversation needs to continue to educate and inform the medical industry that this has to stop. Our voices are big on Social Media (specifically Twitter). We need to use it to create awareness & mobilize the community around this topic to create change.

Hurts my heart to read this.


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## Black Ambrosia (Oct 20, 2018)

I don't disagree with the comments but there was no way he or his wife could've known initially that what was ailing her was life threatening. 7 hours is too long but you don't know that'll be the case in the first 30 minutes, hour, 2 hours, etc. You think the doctor is coming any minute now. Its only after you've been waiting that you realize there's a need to become the squeaky wheel. What's troubling is that someone inside a hospital and already in their care (as opposed to waiting in the ER) died after they were alerted multiple times of a problem. That's the real issue.


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## Chicoro (Oct 21, 2018)

Here's the link to the thread started by @brownb83 about the same topic:

https://longhaircareforum.com/threa...-and-infant-mortality-for-black-women.831407/

*The thread is entitled, "Stress From Racism Linked to Maternal and Infant Mortality for Black Women".*

Here's a link to the research that @brownb83 also posted in her original thread:

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...n-americans-high-maternal-infant-death-rates/

*The article is entitled, "Exploring African Americans' High Maternal and Infant Death Rates"*


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## Shula (Oct 22, 2018)

Chicoro said:


> It's time to get GHETTO! Act ugly, or have a family member act out and ugly on your behalf.



This! You must speak up, ladies. And her daytime black nurse told me I wasn't loud or ghetto enough so take it from Chicoro and the black nurses looking out for you. 

I already wrote on here that my kid had a DVT while IN THE HOSPITAL that they said a mere 24-48 hours before would not happen. And this nurse who was so busy asking me about our house and how much we paid for it, had the nerve to tell me that, "I just wanted you to know that *IF *the doctor doesn't show up, I paged and called him for you; I did both (like that's usual/often??) And it's an emergency?

Nurse manager had called for transport to get another scan done. I told them she is not going anywhere until you medicate this clot to get her out of risk and give her something for the pain.I had legit walked out of her room to the nurse's station at like 1-2 AM and ANNOUNCED like I had a bullhorn that I would sue everybody present if you don't get this on call doctor up here in 5/10 minutes or less. It worked. The one time I ignored my gut, my kid paid hugely for it and I promised myself never again because I promise you they are either incompetent or racist and both are deadly to us. 

My heart is so broken for this man and his family. She seemed to be quite an amazing and beautiful young woman gone for nothing. And Cedars Sinai is an extraordinary facility. No way he could've seen this coming.


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## Cheleigh (Oct 22, 2018)

I know of another highly educated black woman with no preexisting conditions who died under the care of a black female doctor in childbirth (along with her child) because of a clot or hemorrhage related to the off-label use of a drug.  In the moment, it's so hard for you or your family to know that something's amiss.


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## Chicoro (Oct 23, 2018)

Cheleigh said:


> I know of another highly educated black woman with no preexisting conditions who died under the care of a black female doctor in childbirth (along with her child) because of a clot or hemorrhage related to the off-label use of a drug.  In the moment, it's so hard for you or your family to know that something's amiss.



I agree with you in that it is hard to tell when something is amiss.

But based on these statistics of super high mortality rates for black women and babies, it is important to be vigilant.

I say assume that something is and will be amiss in the case of doubt. And be overly cautious. The statistics don't play in black women's  favor when it comes down to the outcomes of high risk childbirth.


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## Chicoro (Oct 23, 2018)

Shula said:


> This! You must speak up, ladies. And her daytime black nurse told me I wasn't loud or ghetto enough so take it from Chicoro and the black nurses looking out for you.
> 
> I already wrote on here that my kid had a DVT while IN THE HOSPITAL that they said a mere 24-48 hours before would not happen. And this nurse who was so busy asking me about our house and how much we paid for it, had the nerve to tell me that, "I just wanted you to know that *IF *the doctor doesn't show up, I paged and called him for you; I did both (like that's usual/often??) And it's an emergency?
> 
> ...



GHETTO is  Good!  Especially when it helps to save a precious life. Bravo to you!


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## Everything Zen (Oct 23, 2018)

I don’t like the implications of the title of this thread. As if speaking being multi-lingual and racing cars is going to save a black woman from dying in child birth. It’s problematic in the same vein of the other young socially well connected back woman who died after a night of partying and they tried to “other” her after she wasn’t given the cocaine apartment treatment.  They sound like many of the accomplished black women that I know on a regular basis. Yes we are all special and unique and we deserve the world but racism is real. Now when Serena Williams struggles to get doctors to listen to her for a PE post partum or the woman actually an expert in the fieldresearching the topic of black women dying more frequently postpartum that made me sit up and listen. These stories make it seem as if black women DESERVE to be treated like crap oh but not this black women because she spoke 5 languages or not this black woman because she was friends with EJ Johnson. THEY were different than the others  When are we going to recognize that there is little to nothing you can do to protect yourself from racism in the world just like there is little to nothing a woman can do in terms of being butt naked and passed out drunk or sober as a judge in a full burka that if a man wants to rape you he will?


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## LivingInPeace (Oct 23, 2018)

Everything Zen said:


> I don’t like the implications of the title of this thread. As if speaking being multi-lingual and racing cars is going to save a black woman from dying in child birth. It’s problematic in the same vein of the other young socially well connected back woman who died after a night of partying and they tried to “other” her after she wasn’t given the cocaine apartment treatment.  They sound like many of the accomplished black women that I know on a regular basis. Yes we are all special and unique and we deserve the world but racism is real. Now when Serena Williams struggles to get doctors to listen to her for a PE post partum or the woman actually an expert in the fieldresearching the topic of black women dying more frequently postpartum that made me sit up and listen. These stories make it seem as if black women DESERVE to be treated like crap oh but not this black women because she spoke 5 languages or not this black woman because she was friends with EJ Johnson. THEY were different than the others  When are we going to recognize that there is little to nothing you can do to protect yourself from racism in the world just like there is little to nothing a woman can do in terms of being butt naked and passed out drunk or sober as a judge in a full burka that if a man wants to rape you he will?


I think you missed the point.


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## Shula (Oct 23, 2018)

LivingInPeace said:


> I think you missed the point.




I think what Zen is saying is that this woman SHOULD NOT have to have all these qualifiers and accomplishments listed to prove she was worthy of life. She was worthy simply because all people deserve humane and quality treatment.

I see both points from you and it's the same thing that happened with Botham Jean and many other blacks dying. It's almost like we have to be proven to be good and accomplished people and not some thug or hoodrat off the street for others to see our value when us simply being human beings should be enough. Unfortunately, this society is so racist towards us that they make it such that we have to be perfect, interesting, productive, etc victims. It's trash thinking but it's also America.


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## Shula (Oct 23, 2018)

Everything Zen said:


> I don’t like the implications of the title of this thread. As if speaking being multi-lingual and racing cars is going to save a black woman from dying in child birth. It’s problematic in the same vein of the other young socially well connected back woman who died after a night of partying and they tried to “other” her after she wasn’t given the cocaine apartment treatment.  They sound like many of the accomplished black women that I know on a regular basis. Yes we are all special and unique and we deserve the world but racism is real. Now when Serena Williams struggles to get doctors to listen to her for a PE post partum or the woman actually an expert in the fieldresearching the topic of black women dying more frequently postpartum that made me sit up and listen. These stories make it seem as if black women DESERVE to be treated like crap oh but not this black women because she spoke 5 languages or not this black woman because she was friends with EJ Johnson. THEY were different than the others  When are we going to recognize that there is little to nothing you can do to protect yourself from racism in the world just like there is little to nothing a woman can do in terms of being butt naked and passed out drunk or sober as a judge in a full burka that if a man wants to rape you he will?




I thought the same thing but left it alone since we ain't post racial yet but it's a running theme for us when death comes for black folk.  Basically to me it translates to: Was this person a credit to their race and should we even bother to care until we know they weren't trash? Other races have the privilege of empathy and concern when they suffer these things. We gotta pass the checklist. I'm over it, too, sis

ETA: The cocaine apartment blonde drug addled doc's brush her off and make her a saint treatment was something to watch, eh? White folk are AMAZING and not in a good way.


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## Everything Zen (Oct 23, 2018)

Shula said:


> I think what Zen is saying is that this woman SHOULD NOT have to have all these qualifiers and accomplishments listed to prove she was worthy of life. She was worthy simple because all people deserve humane and quality treatment.
> 
> I see both points from you and it's the same thing that happened with Botham Jean and many other blacks dying. It's almost like we have to be proven to be good and accomplished people and not some thug or hoodrat off the street for others to see our value when us simply being human beings should be enough. Unfortunately, this society is so racist towards us that they make that we have to be perfect, interesting, productive , etc victims. It's trash thinking but it's also America.



That’s exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you!


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## Shula (Oct 23, 2018)

Everything Zen said:


> That’s exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you!


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## dicapr (Oct 23, 2018)

Chicoro said:


> GHETTO is  Good!  Especially when it helps to save a precious life. Bravo to you!



While it is important to advocate for yourself and get loud if necessary the issue is that the US has an overall poor maternal mortality rate period. Things are even worse for black women because of institutionalized racism. The main issue is physicaians with god-complex not listening and dismissing the concerns of their patients-women in general and black women in particular.

  To me the whole maternal death issue is summed up in the fact that a white L&D nurse died on the hospital floor she worked on after telling her co-workers and physicians something was wrong. Her husband-a doctor-tried to advocate for more testing for his wife and was told that OB wasn’t his specialty and was ignored. She died. So do we really thing getting “Ghetto” is the answer?


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## Chicoro (Oct 23, 2018)

dicapr said:


> While it is important to advocate for yourself and get loud if necessary the issue is that the US has an overall poor maternal mortality rate period. Things are even worse for black women because of institutionalized racism. The main issue is physicaians with god-complex not listening and dismissing the concerns of their patients-women in general and black women in particular.
> 
> To me the whole maternal death issue is summed up in the fact that a white L&D nurse died on the hospital floor she worked on after telling her co-workers and physicians something was wrong. Her husband-a doctor-tried to advocate for more testing for his wife and was told that OB wasn’t his specialty and was ignored. She died. *So do we really thing getting “Ghetto” is the answer?*



The documentation and literature explicitly state  that a huge component of maternal death, as it relates to black women,  along with empirical evidence, points to institutionalized racism as a tremendous,  contributor to this crisis.  This creates an allostatic load on African American woman which adversely impacts the body's adaptive systems. Many of the factors are impacting African American women not only during their lifespan, but even prior to their birth. The former referred to as the  'cumulative pathway model' and the latter as the 'early programming model'.

I have read and studied the literature. *That's just it. There is no simple answer. *


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## dicapr (Oct 23, 2018)

Chicoro said:


> The documentation and literature explicitly state  that a huge component of maternal death, as it relates to black women,  along with empirical evidence, points to institutionalized racism as a tremendous,  contributor to this crisis.  This creates an allostatic load on African American woman which adversely impacts the body's adaptive systems. Many of the factors are impacting African American women not only during their lifespan, but even prior to their birth. The former referred to as the  'cumulative pathway model' and the latter as the 'early programming model'.
> 
> I have read and studied the literature. *That's just it. There is no simple answer. *



I agree-that was basically my point.  The US doesn’t take care of women in general and black women are treated even worse than whites.


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## Chicoro (Oct 23, 2018)

dicapr said:


> I agree-that was basically my point.  The US doesn’t take care of women in general and black women are treated even worse than whites.



Understood!


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## AtlantaJJ (Oct 23, 2018)

My heart is broken!!  And she was at one of the country's "top" hospitals.


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## AtlantaJJ (Oct 23, 2018)

Serena Williams had to make a ruckus to save her own life!!


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## Everything Zen (Oct 23, 2018)

I want to know why the CT scan never occurred and what their explanation was for ignoring her husband’s pleas.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 25, 2018)

Chicoro said:


> Black women in the US, in general, are *high context*. That means that we like a lot of detail and information, especially from the doctor. I know I can't speak for you, but asking a lot of questions is very common for black woman.


So true but its not translating to assertiveness in the appropriate setting where it would save us....
For me and my reality---yep. My sisters, my mom, my aunts, my cousins are very high context (I love this term!)

The women I work with make me want to scream. I spend much time begging and encouraging them to speak up and to have an advocate or two who will speak up on their behalf.

Cause my husband is like Kira's husband and tends to step back some....so I had my boss and sister on speed dial and my doula there (an HBCU student and sista) to be there as my second. Having a doula there will make ALL the difference.

In my field of Public health for low income women and families of young kids/babies, and many are the educated ones who are first generation college grads, first generation real money, real jobs....they don't speak up enough. My MIL is DEAD because of the quiet and just refusal to think of herself over all others. I have met MEDICAL doctors who clam up because while they are medical doctors in other fields...something about going through childbirth (especially a non-ideal labor and delivery) just sends them back to a meekness you have never seen. One doctor (a Pediatrician) said EVERYONE ASSUMED she'd have no problem nursing. She struggled so bad, never asked for extra help and was supplementing within a week and stopped shortly after. She regrets not speaking up and not admitting that she needed help. Me: I'm a WHOLE lactation counselor and demanded a lactation nurse be at my bedside when I finally got up the next day. I didn't want the floor nurse who had "basic training" in breastfeeding, I wanted that expert.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 25, 2018)

There is a real dynamic that affects a significant subset of black women that is really the OPPOSITE of what we are accused of being: Loud, brash, and angry/bitter...we talk about it a lot: Its that "save everyone" mentality we've developed to our demise. And its 10000% unfair cause I'm not victim blaming AT ALL. I think there needs to be conversation about the CULTURE of the American BW....to have a desire to help all others....society's disgusting demand that we basically be mules (mammies), while low-key fetishizing us (even WW), that creates this BS and disgusting belief that we are super strong and don't need/REQUIRE help and if we are asking for help, we must be some kind of outlier that needs to be 1) ignored or worse 2) discouraged from being so needy and then basically ignored, not getting the help we need.

This will only change if medicine changes. it will but it will be a while.
The ONLY solution/CURE is self-empowerment:
1) creating a village of like-minded women and mothers who empower each other
2) Getting more BW to be doulas, birth workers, CLC's (its a quick easy course) anyone can take it---(I'll post information in another comment)
3) Encouraging ALL women of all backgrounds to have a doula or extra birth worker attending all births until it becomes the norm.
4) If you are in a non-health field but want to become a mom, take an online training, or encourage a friend who is interested in this stuff to take the training (see my next comment). I don't care if you are in the financial sector, a teacher, whatever....a simple online investment may save your life bc it will give you a language and a verbiage you need to be able to pull a Serena and ask for the stuff you need. We already know our sisters (WE) are vulnerable and we can no longer lay down).
4. Getting an advocate in the birthing room and stop making it a celebration. You don't need a whole bunch of look-a-whoers in the birthing room. In ancient times several people attended the birth, but all the attendees had a skill set that could be tapped in the event of a problem.  Other than hubby, everyone else is an ONLOOKER. My husband attended and did skin to skin...but he wasn't MY DOULA. She knows the language of the medical issues and can speak quickly and directly to nurses, CNAs, the doctor, staff, etc. Its not instinctual for hubby nor my mom.
5. We need to get back to the attention and understanding that risk to the mom is a problem and care for the mom is important. Doctor is there for baby....doula is there for me.
6. Post partum care is needed. We now have "Post partum doulas' that can be hired to basically take care of thins after birth. I'm a runner and walker for exercise, but at day 8 post partum, hubby didn't realize I cannot walk around the block even though he insisted I get up and going. My bleeding was subsiding until that little walk. I showed him my heavy pad and he was shocked. But he needed to see it so he could STFU and humble himself to the awe of post partum. The post partum care is them doing chores, cleaning, cooking, etc. Stuff our mamas and aunties and grannies used to do. Stuff Japanese mothers have built an industry out of since about 20 years ago (a desire to get back to their own roots), and African and Arabic mothers and aunts have been doing for centuries---that ol' 40 day shut in time people ignore these days. I did it except for attending doc appointments and the breastfeeding support. I broke my rule 1-2 times then quickly sat on down. Many women don't have people in their lives willing to do this. Even I temporarily bought into the BS of being superwoman. Temporarily.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 25, 2018)

If you are reading this and plan to have a baby soon: I'm talking to YOU. You are a black woman and are at risk. You NEED to invest in a GOOD DOULA who will advocate for you. If all you can find is a white one: Hire her and here is why: Doula's are trained the same and are in the field because they don't think like traditional practitioners. Black or white they are like-minded and basically are not stuttin the doctor they are worried about you. Interview her. The white doulas in my community are sending these articles around about Kira as we speak. They get it and I let them shut down their white counterparts who attempt to say its not real. In the interview, if she is aware and believes the issue with black women is real, she should be on your short list.
If you are educated IDGAF take the Lamaze class, the prenatal course, you tube and talk to your OB. I had 7 years of education on all things baby before I conceived. I still had a preemie at 23 weeks. But at 6 weeks I called my insurance wondering what I was looking at financially if I had one. what benefits (hospital grade pump) would I get for having one? what is needed. I'm crazy but in the chaos of her birth, a lot of things fell into place because I knew the language and what to do if you have a preemie. So she survived and thrived despite a 95% chance that she wasn't supposed to. Pregnancy is beautiful but its a huge risk and the ancestors wasn't playing about being close to death. Closest to death.

I am working with Doulas for a barter and trade system so that the poorest mamas can afford her services. They need them THE MOST.
In a perfect world, insurance will cover their services. Soon come I hope.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 25, 2018)

If you are looking for a Doula:
The National Black Doula Association.
DONA www.dona.org to become trained as one or encourage a friend who is possibly pre-med, pre-lactation consultant, a student interested in social work, a student interested in health, a nurse, or just interested in working in ANY capacity of the health/maternal health, infant health field.


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## Sarabellam (Oct 25, 2018)

If something is going wrong get as many people notified as possible. Call the nurse, doctor, even get on the phone and call the umbudsman office right then. 

Unfortunately people in important positions are still people and their work can suffer from everything from laziness, work dissatisfaction, simple mistakes, and of course racism and sexism.


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## Shula (Oct 26, 2018)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> If you are looking for a Doula:
> The National Black Doula Association.
> DONA www.dona.org to become trained as one or encourage a friend who is possibly pre-med, pre-lactation consultant, a student interested in social work, a student interested in health, a nurse, or just interested in working in ANY capacity of the health/maternal health, infant health field.




Thank you so much! These posts are gold. I would print them out if I were still in child bearing age. I love the health field because of being forced to be around it and I would LOVE to become a doula. Your timing on this is so odd because I just read the Jamilah Lemieux is going through the training  a few days back and I discussed it with my girls. If I can get my health stabilized enough, I'm going for it. Thanks for the org info and always invaluable posts.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 26, 2018)

Shula said:


> Thank you so much! These posts are gold. I would print them out if I were still in child bearing age. I love the health field because of being forced to be around it and I would LOVE to become a doula. Your timing on this is so odd because I just read the Jamilah Lemieux is going through the training  a few days back and I discussed it with my girls. If I can get my health stabilized enough, I'm going for it. Thanks for the org info and always invaluable posts.


No problem.
I love ya'll.
I want the best for us. We may be the only village for someone here.
Erykah Badu is a Doula. So yeah----anyone can and should if its feasible.

Imagine it, a friend from your community, she may be a singer by trade, a banker by trade, but she attends YOUR BIRTH....That's what the ancients did.


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## DeepBluSea (Oct 27, 2018)

Ya know Serena Williams said they didn’t want to listen to her when she said something wasn’t right. And she has a history of clotting! 

Pregnant black women are at higher risk than other women. Even accounting for higher socioeconomic status, education, etc. we are more likely to have issues like preeclampsia. 

The US medical system is flawed. There are great support staff, nurses and doctors working in a flawed system. Ask anyone whose worked in a hospital about press Ganey (sp?) or other satisfaction surveys. People become jaded and forget they are taking care of real people. 

As someone who has been on both sides of the fence, never leave a loved one at the hospital alone. Most US hospitals are understaffed. You may or may not get a person whose heart in is their job. Be the annoying family member that asks questions. “I know you are busy but. ..” that takes medical staff off their guard and reminds them this a person, not a consumer. 

Be persistent. If that doesn’t work, be more persistent. If that doesn’t work take it up a notch accordingly. Tell anyone who will listen. Ask for a patient advocate. 

I’m not asking for an extra juice or blanket, I’m asking for healthcare.


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## UmSumayyah (Oct 27, 2018)

DeepBluSea said:


> Ya know Serena Williams said they didn’t want to listen to her when she said something wasn’t right. And she has a history of clotting!
> 
> Pregnant black women are at higher risk than other women. Even accounting for higher socioeconomic status, education, etc. we are more likely to have issues like preeclampsia.
> 
> ...


When my mom was in the hospital we showed up in force and let it be known.


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## DeepBluSea (Oct 27, 2018)

UmSumayyah said:


> When my mom was in the hospital we showed up in force and let it be known.



Yessss! We did shift work when my mom was in the hospital. The nurses are overworked. They have few aides to help patients. Her dr trying to dip in and out. Her nurse forgot her meds. She would had to wait for help going to the bathroom. And this was a “good” hospital.


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## Chicoro (Nov 22, 2019)




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## Ivonnovi (Mar 17, 2022)

Good read, valuable information shared; and I don't remember seeing this about Judge Hatchett's son....AND even Serena Williams had challenges too?    Wow!!!!


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## madamdot (Mar 26, 2022)

I remember this and it broke my heart. It was about a year after I gave birth and totally understand.

Ladies, let me tell you. If your doctor is not advocating for you - leave. I swear this is one of 2 or so jobs that people don’t perform well and we don’t fire them on the spot.

When I pregnant with my son, I changed OB 3 times. The first person was good but she was a nurse practitioner and I was 95% sure I was going to need a c-section. I knew this before I got pregnant but wanted to explore all possibilities. She agreed this was likely the case and that I needed to see an OB who could do that. The NP was lovely and had worked with me through medical another issue. She did my regular woman check up.

Anyway, I ended up with a guy who I could tell didn’t give a $hit. He was older and very matter of fact, which I didn’t like. I need my doctors to talk to me. He had me come in for an appointment. I thought it was a regular prenatal check up but the sonogram tech asked why I was there since this wasn’t a week for a regular check up. The tech went to talk to the doctor who told her what he was looking for. I was LIVID! How dare he not tell me he was concerned about something. I am not a child. I did the sonogram and went and saw someone else. On the recommendation of another mom friend I went to another OB who ended up delivering both my kids.

Let me tell you I was so happy cause things could’ve easily gotten out of hand. For scheduled C-sections you have to go in a few days before and get blood work done. The morning my son was born I checked into the hospital and they asked me my blood type. I told them. They told me that I was wrong. That they had something else on file. I said absolutely not. I know my blood type. 

My doctor came in and stopped everything and demanded that they redo the bloodwork and make sure they got the correct information on file before she would do the C-section. She wanted to be 100% sure the information was correct because one of the major things she was worried about was complications from bleeding from fibroids. Basically the same thing that the previous doctor was concerned about but didn’t tell me. I think if I had gone with that guy he would have just accepted the hospital’s information.

To this day almost all my doctors are women and most of them are people of color (black, Indian, Trini). We have to find the people who will fight for us and fire the ones who don’t. This was a hard learned lesson for me. Thankfully not life or death, but years of misdiagnosis.


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## Evolving78 (Mar 28, 2022)

madamdot said:


> I remember this and it broke my heart. It was about a year after I gave birth and totally understand.
> 
> Ladies, let me tell you. If your doctor is not advocating for you - leave. I swear this is one of 2 or so jobs that people don’t perform well and we don’t fire them on the spot.
> 
> ...


Black doctors (women) and black healthcare professionals (women) have been extremely problematic, insensitive, and come off highly jaded in my personal experience.


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## madamdot (Mar 28, 2022)

Evolving78 said:


> Black doctors (women) and black healthcare professionals (women) have been extremely problematic, insensitive, and come off highly jaded in my personal experience.



Wow, really? I am so sorry.

I had one who was very nasty and I never saw her again, so yea they are not exempt.


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## Everything Zen (Mar 28, 2022)

Yeah I tried to keep black doctors but it’s not always the case. I love my young Indian PCP. I tried two black doctors before that. One was an older woman who had a great bedside manner but her staff was ghetto and always had her running 2 hours late and were always having me run out of my medications to the point where I threatened to leave the practice. Before that I tried a black male doctor who was treating me for an acute case of bronchitis. The first thing he told me was I was going to have to get rid of my pets.  He questioned my birth control pills and told me I didn’t need to drink water after I proudly told him I try to drink a gallon daily. Never went back.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Apr 1, 2022)

Everything Zen said:


> Yeah I tried to keep black doctors but it’s not always the case. I love my young Indian PCP. I tried two black doctors before that. One was an older woman who had a great bedside manner but her staff was ghetto and always had her running 2 hours late and were always having me run out of my medications to the point where I threatened to leave the practice. Before that I tried a black male doctor who was treating me for an acute case of bronchitis. The first thing he told me was I was going to have to get rid of my pets.  He questioned my birth control pills and told me I didn’t need to drink water after I proudly told him I try to drink a gallon daily. Never went back.


I have had run-ins with bad black doctors--one who just had bad bedside manner--a Sister who I knew from college. She was in med-school and I was in undergrad in that medical school's tutoring program for those pursuing science degrees. She and I spoke all the time and she was just a little standoffish for no reason. The old white guy who treated me in that same practice for the same thing months later was an absolute dream. The second was a young black guy in the ER when my one year old was sick with high fever and low O2 sats. It was an ear infection and he noted breastfeeding as the cause bc she was 1. I could have ripped him a new one with facts and research but I just gave him a death stare. It was 3 AM and my husband touched my hand cause he knew. 


My kids' Ped are white and the back up Pediatrician is middle eastern. They've been great. I love them and I'ma stick beside 'em.

My OB is a sister, an AKA and she is my boo. She got out of bed in the middle of the night to bring my princesses earthside and I have the best memories of her and my black doula shooting the wind, chit chatting after the delivery (my OB patiently teaching, and my doula asking questions like an intern) and my black and latina nurses cooing over my new minutes-old princess and attending to me and husband helping him do skin to skin. Having all that melanin attending me is the best memory ever. 

The point is doctors can go either way. Color matters until it doesn't....behaviors are the most important thing. Vibes and attitudes matter.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Apr 1, 2022)

Evolving78 said:


> Black doctors (women) and black healthcare professionals (women) have been extremely problematic, insensitive, and come off highly jaded in my personal experience.


I wish you had my OB. She really is sweet. People literally clear the halls for her, she is so respected and revered. I watched her in action and she easily takes charge but is never mean or disrespectful to staff or patients. 
There is a Nigerian OB in town. An older gentleman. People be fighting over him. The white ladies love his bedside manner. They will wait more weeks than they need to be just to be squeezed onto his busy schedule. He let me come right on in when a friend of mine delivered and he was almost like her uncle or grandad. Just as gentle and encouraging her to give breastfeeding a try.


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## Evolving78 (Apr 1, 2022)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> I wish you had my OB. She really is sweet. People literally clear the halls for her, she is so respected and revered. I watched her in action and she easily takes charge but is never mean or disrespectful to staff or patients.
> There is a Nigerian OB in town. An older gentleman. People be fighting over him. The white ladies love his bedside manner. They will wait more weeks than they need to be just to be squeezed onto his busy schedule. He let me come right on in when a friend of mine delivered and he was almost like her uncle or grandad. Just as gentle and encouraging her to give breastfeeding a try.


My second and fourth (found her when I left a non-caring, not doing her job butt OB at 32 weeks) OBs were great, but they left their practices to be SAHMs.  My primary is black and is a demon..


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## Jmartjrmd (Apr 13, 2022)

DeepBluSea said:


> Yessss! We did shift work when my mom was in the hospital. The nurses are overworked. They have few aides to help patients. Her dr trying to dip in and out. Her nurse forgot her meds. She would had to wait for help going to the bathroom. And this was a “good” hospital.


 Sadly this is true
I know this is older but the problem is the administration.  They choose to run hospitals the way they do.  There are plenty of nurses out there but not plenty who are willing to work.  I saw a Stat that in the current climate 30 to 40 percent of new grads are leaving the profession all together by year 2!  That's sad and troubling.
Nursing should be a wonderful, fulfilling profession and it can be but it also sucks.
Ratios are terrible, conditions are terrible, pay sucks, morale is low, respect is low, bullying is high and Satisfaction surveys are more important than actual patient care.
When I was in undergrad I should of seen the writing on the wall and got OUT.  I worked as a cna on a med surg floor.  There were two of us cna's and 2 nurses  1 RN and 1LPN for the entire floor.  We had 36 patients which mean each nurse had 18 patients!  18!  And 1 had 18 and the other cna 18.  To make it worse i was only doing 3p to 12p because of school so after 11 my nurse was on her own.  This wasn't  a nursing home where that's common this was in a hospital.  I remember making rounds and finding one patient dead.  I got my nurse and yeah that lady had been gone for who knows how long so now my nurse had to stop and deal with the death while trying to manage 17 other patients plus what work the LPN couldn't do.

Most non medical people know hospitals are understaffed but not just how bad it is.  1:4 in the icu ( 2 icu patients should be max some need to be 1,:1) 1:8 on the floor.  Patients are sicker than ever with multiple, complex issues.  
When ( if) safe Staffing laws are proposed in your area vote for them.  It's not perfect but it could help.  California has safe Staffing laws, the only state with a real law, but even they are not always perfect.  If you followed my story I was in Cali at the time of my HA and the care I received initially was subpar.
I did have to do a lot of telling them what I wanted done when I was finally awake but Thank God my sister and my husband both were around and both medically trained.
My nephew could of been saved had Doctors listened to my sister but he loss his life to lack of care at just 19 years old.
Sigh
I love my job working with babies but even in baby world there are hospitals that do 1:5 and when understaffed 1:6 or 1:7...nobody can give competent care trying to do total care on 7 sick babies.
When does nurse get to eat, break, pee.  It can take 1.5 to 2 hours to properly assess, feed monitor 3 how the heck can you do 7?  Cutting corners is the only way and dangerous.
It's tough out there and only going to get MUCH worse.


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## Evolving78 (Apr 13, 2022)

@Jmartjrmd 
The hospital where I had my first baby wasn’t understaffed. They had poor performance issues that led to a quality improvement initiative which got the nurses and the rest of the clinical team on track. They also implemented a survey given to patients for each nurse they came into contact with and displayed the chart in the hallway showing nurses where they fall in the metrics. When I had my 3rd baby there, The nursing staff provided quality care,  therefore leading to better patient outcomes. At the time the hospital was also in transition of merging with a healthcare organization that could easily replace staff. There is a catch 22 when healthcare facilites and other organizations that serve the black community or an underserved population  are managed by a black administration.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Apr 13, 2022)

Jmartjrmd said:


> Sadly this is true
> I know this is older but the problem is the administration.  They choose to run hospitals the way they do.  There are plenty of nurses out there but not plenty who are willing to work.  I saw a Stat that in the current climate 30 to 40 percent of new grads are leaving the profession all together by year 2!  That's sad and troubling.
> Nursing should be a wonderful, fulfilling profession and it can be but it also sucks.
> Ratios are terrible, conditions are terrible, pay sucks, morale is low, respect is low, bullying is high and Satisfaction surveys are more important than actual patient care.
> ...


I wanted to let you know Starting May 5th I'll be working in the hospital. I'll be working with very sick children, infants, women. So you know I will be taking my fight over there!


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## Jmartjrmd (Apr 13, 2022)

Evolving78 said:


> @Jmartjrmd
> The hospital where I had my first baby wasn’t understaffed. They had poor performance issues that led to a quality improvement initiative which got the nurses and the rest of the clinical team on track. They also implemented a survey given to patients for each nurse they came into contact with and displayed the chart in the hallway showing nurses where they fall in the metrics. When I had my 3rd baby there, The nursing staff provided quality care,  therefore leading to better patient outcomes. At the time the hospital was also in transition of merging with a healthcare organization that could easily replace staff. There is a catch 22 when healthcare facilites and other organizations that serve the black community or an underserved population  are managed by a black administration.


I'm happy you had a better experience!
I know satisfaction scores are tied to reimbursement and the ability of the hospital to get and retain new and old patients.  They make $$$ when you come back and tell your friends and family you had a good experience so then they go too.  Especially in larger cities people have choices so what they say about xyz hospital matters.  But still there are some really scary places out there where the people that can make a difference are more worried about appearances and their bonuses than providing good care and the basics of what people need to do their job.  Covid stripped a lot of these places naked so people could finally see the truth.  Not much has changed.
In my experience administration doesn't care until it affects profit.  I learned that as a manager when we were severely understaffed and had to provide less than stellar care and my patient population can't handle that.  I can only really speak to the pedi and NICU units and what I saw around the country and the whole point of my job was to go to where Staffing was an issue.  Poor staffing directly affects quality care.  And usually the answer isn't lets find another nurse it's lets add those patients to a nurse that already has a full assignment.  Then admissions come and she gets yet another patient. 
Patients get sicker during your shift which means the nurse needs more time to care for that patient but they are already short so who can help her and steer the ship or throw her a life jacket as she's drowning.  Can't provide quality care that way.  It's a domino effect.
I could talk all day about healthcare politics and administration and staffing what drives them to do better.  It's Benjamin or some major lawsuit etc....see what just went on at Vanderbilt.
And nurses get blamed for everything.    But we also don't speak up for ourselves.
Healthcare is a mess and I'm scared for myself everytime I have to go in and these are my peers and colleagues.
If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't advise anyone to go into nursing specifically and like I said I love what I do but I wouldn't chose it again if I had a do over.


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## Jmartjrmd (Apr 14, 2022)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> I wanted to let you know Starting May 5th I'll be working in the hospital. I'll be working with very sick children, infants, women. So you know I will be taking my fight over there!


Yes!  I know you'll fight for what's right!  Every aspect of healthcare needs to speak up and change our system.

I know there's a million nurses march planned but I'm not sure about how organized it is currently but they still plan to go through with it.  Actually there are 2.


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## Ivonnovi (May 23, 2022)

Let's add Tatianna Ali to Black Women who've had challenges during Pregnancy & Delivery due to ignorant racist bias's.   This was in my feed today.


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