# Hey Christians, why do you think Christianity is always under attack?



## Bublnbrnsuga (Dec 14, 2006)

If people don't believe in Jesus or the Bible, why do they feel the need to so call 'expose the real truths?' Why don't I see or hear of exposing the truths of the Koran, Torah, etc?
I don't get it. If I don't believe in something, I just leave it at that. If something angers me just by its mention, I leave it alone. The name Jesus angers so many, but those same angry people feel the need to confront the world of the 'truths about Jesus.' It seems to me that Christianity is threatening to others. What do you ladies (and gents) think?


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## Crackers Phinn (Dec 14, 2006)

I don't think "Jesus" angers anyone. It's what shady folks try to pull off in Jesus name that pisses people off.


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## pebbles (Dec 14, 2006)

Count it all joy! LOL!! 

I wish I could give you a satisfactory answer, but I can't. Is it perhaps because the teachings of Christianity do not conform to the views of the world? I don't know. This is how Jesus said it would be. As for me, come hell or high water, I will stand firm in the faith, I don't care what people think of me. Love me, hate me, but this is me. No matter what I do, all I want is to be ever mindful of the fact is that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. 

Gosh, that movie in your siggy is distracting me. That guy sure did hit that kid hard! LOL!


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## Trini"T" (Dec 14, 2006)

Well, I think Christianity may seem threatening to others because according to the Bible, they won't be able to go to heaven because of their lifestyle, practices, or beliefs.  Also, because these same people see what a large impact Christianity has in the world.


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## Zeal (Dec 14, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> If people don't believe in Jesus or the Bible, why do they feel the need to so call 'expose the real truths?' Why don't I see or hear of exposing the truths of the Koran, Torah, etc?
> I don't get it. If I don't believe in something, I just leave it at that. If something angers me just by its mention, I leave it alone. The name Jesus angers so many, but those same angry people feel the need to confront the world of the 'truths about Jesus.' It seems to me that Christianity is threatening to others. What do you ladies (and gents) think?


 
I hear you.  I have always wondered about that.  It seems as though we are always under attack. Why would you go out of your way to "Prove" that something is not true. Why do we have to take our ten commandments and crosses down for "our own" office.

sigh....


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## Browndilocks (Dec 14, 2006)

Trini"T" said:
			
		

> *Well, I think Christianity may seem threatening to others because according to the Bible, they won't be able to go to heaven because of their lifestyle, practices, or beliefs. * Also, because these same people see what a large impact Christianity has in the world.



Agreed.

You don't have to believe but I can't understand why so many people are on a mission to debate or prove Christians wrong.  What's annoying is that it seems as though many non-Christians have their own interpretation of what a practicing Christian should be.  So much so, that you'd think they themselves were the actual representatives of the Christian faith.  It sometimes feels as if some have this perception that Christians are supposed to be these sin free, holier than thou, bland personality having halo wearers.  And we're NOT!  I know I'm not anyway.

If someone is not a Christian and (if they're HONEST with themselves) are REALLY not trying to become one; or do not have an inner conviction (for lack of a better word) to have a realtionship with Christ for themselves, then WHY would they care about what the bible says or what Christians of any and all denominations do on a daily basis?  Why always try to start an argument or debate? Why be a source of chaos and rift when the issue has nothing to do with you?   If they know SO MUCH then why don't they become Christians themselves and set the example?  Alrighty then.  Just mind your business and keep it moving.  Simple.


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## Pam Pam (Dec 14, 2006)

Because the teachings of Christ are the only real threat to the kingdom of darkness.  The devil has been trying to tear down the things God has built since the beginning of time.

If something isn't a threat to you, you don't pay it any mind.

It kills me when non Christians try to tell you what a Christian should be, basing it off of something they "heard" and not something they've lived.  I'll tell anyone, when you've sincerely made an effort to serve the Most High God in Christ Jesus, then come to me and tell me what you think I'm "supposed" to do.

And when someone who professes Christianity doesn't live up to "their" expectations of what a Christian is, then they represent all Christians and no one is living right.  Let he who is without sin cast the first stone....


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## Pam Pam (Dec 14, 2006)

Browndilocks said:
			
		

> Agreed.
> 
> You don't have to believe but I can't understand why so many people are on a mission to debate or prove Christians wrong. What's annoying is that it seems as though many non-Christians have their own interpretation of what a practicing Christian should be. So much so, that you'd think they themselves were the actual representatives of the Christian faith. It sometimes feels as if some have this perception that Christians are supposed to be these sin free, holier than thou, bland personality having halo wearers. And we're NOT! I know I'm not anyway.
> 
> If someone is not a Christian and (if they're HONEST with themselves) are REALLY not trying to become one; or do not have an inner conviction (for lack of a better word) to have a realtionship with Christ for themselves, then WHY would they care about what the bible says or what Christians of any and all denominations do on a daily basis? Why always try to start an argument or debate? Why be a source of chaos and rift when the issue has nothing to do with you? If they know SO MUCH then why don't they become Christians themselves and set the example? Alrighty then. Just mind your business and keep it moving. Simple.


 
Too funny...I just said the same thing.

You put it so much better than me.


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## pebbles (Dec 14, 2006)

Pam Pam and Browndilocks, you guys just spared me a whole lot of typing!


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## Radianthealth (Dec 14, 2006)

The thread title could be changed to 

Hey Blacks, why do you think Blacks are always under attack?

The answer for both is that when you are constantly attacked you become overly sensitive.

When there are too many bad examples within your group, people are going to make a target out of your group.


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## StrawberryQueen (Dec 14, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> *If people don't believe in Jesus or the Bible, why do they feel the need to so call 'expose the real truths?'* Why don't I see or hear of exposing the truths of the Koran, Torah, etc?
> I don't get it. If I don't believe in something, I just leave it at that. If something angers me just by its mention, I leave it alone. The name Jesus angers so many, but those same angry people feel the need to confront the world of the 'truths about Jesus.' It seems to me that Christianity is threatening to others. What do you ladies (and gents) think?


 
A lot of people who don't believe, can't understand why *we* believe.  Therefore, they feel as if they are doing us a fvaor by showing us the light and the fallacy of our beliefs.   So they will go to extraordinary and persistent lengths to disprove what we believe.  They are "helping" us. erplexed

And *Trimbride*, you are right.  This mentality can apply to anything.  But more specifically people go after religion because they can't understand the "restrictions" or "limitations" that the doctrines put on us.  We neeed to be liberated!  Save the Christians from Christianity!


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## firecracker (Dec 14, 2006)

Trini"T" said:
			
		

> Well, I think Christianity may seem threatening to others because according to the Bible, they won't be able to go to heaven because of their lifestyle, practices, or beliefs. Also, because these same people see what a large impact Christianity has in the world.


 
I think your on to something.   
The witnesses don't have folk always trying to bust them out for some odd reason.  How do they keep their secrets are beyond me.


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## firecracker (Dec 14, 2006)

Browndilocks said:
			
		

> Agreed.
> 
> You don't have to believe but I can't understand why so many people are on a mission to debate or prove Christians wrong. What's annoying is that it seems as though many non-Christians have their own interpretation of what a practicing Christian should be. So much so, that you'd think they themselves were the actual representatives of the Christian faith. It sometimes feels as if some have this perception that Christians are supposed to be these sin free, holier than thou, bland personality having halo wearers. And we're NOT! I know I'm not anyway.
> 
> If someone is not a Christian and (if they're HONEST with themselves) are REALLY not trying to become one; or do not have an inner conviction (for lack of a better word) to have a realtionship with Christ for themselves, then WHY would they care about what the bible says or what Christians of any and all denominations do on a daily basis? Why always try to start an argument or debate? Why be a source of chaos and rift when the issue has nothing to do with you? If they know SO MUCH then why don't they become Christians themselves and set the example? Alrighty then. Just mind your business and keep it moving. Simple.


 
I think your right Sherlock


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## Lusa (Dec 15, 2006)

In case you havenâ€™t heard, questions about Christianity are not worthy to be addressed in a polite manner. People that have issues with this faith are entitled to spew hateful comments about its followers and their beliefs. Itâ€™s okay to lump everyone into one group of small-minded, ultra-conservative bible thumpers. 

However, please do not apply the same to other faiths or belief systems. We must engage in healthy dialogue with Muslims, Hindus, atheists, etc. In order to live in harmony we must understand why it is they believe the things they do, and try to accommodate them by all means possible. 

I am willing to have healthy discussions with people of other faiths but when itâ€™s nothing more than an attack, no thanks. I am not going to get into a shouting match where the loudest person wins.


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## Amina (Dec 15, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> If people don't believe in Jesus or the Bible, why do they feel the need to so call 'expose the real truths?' Why don't I see or hear of exposing the truths of the Koran, Torah, etc?
> *
> Really, I could post tons and tons of websites that shows the "truth about the Quran" or the "Truth about Islam/Muslim"...However, out of respect for this forum rules I will not...*
> 
> ...



I come on the Christian forum from time to time just to learn about other Christian beliefs (growing up Catholic, I wasn't exposed to other Christian ideology)...however, now I realize there is no point in this anymore...


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## firecracker (Dec 15, 2006)

Amina said:
			
		

> I come on the Christian forum from time to time just to learn about other Christian beliefs (growing up Catholic, I wasn't exposed to other Christian ideology)...however, now I realize there is no point in this anymore...


 
Amina please don't take one person's tirade and unkind comment out on all of us. I think the OP was speaking out of frustration from all the constant bashing. 
Christians do seem to always be under the ugliness microscope.     

Your not the only one on the board that wants to learn about others belief system.  
We cannot simply shortage anyones belief system/religion Christian or not.  

My comment about Witnesses was really due to my amazement at there quasi closeness and lack of drama being in the news daily.  I don't know what drama but we all have some form of misbehaving going on since we as humans are not perfect.  

Don't be a stranger here.  Sorry.


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## StrawberryQueen (Dec 15, 2006)

Amina said:
			
		

> I come on the Christian forum from time to time just to learn about other Christian beliefs (growing up Catholic, I wasn't exposed to other Christian ideology)...however, now I realize there is no point in this anymore...


*No Amina!  Stay!  *


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## Shimmie (Dec 15, 2006)

Amina said:
			
		

> I come on the Christian forum from time to time just to learn about other Christian beliefs (growing up Catholic, I wasn't exposed to other Christian ideology)...*however, now I realize there is no point in this anymore..*.


Amina, there will always be someone in this life who will fail you or disappoint you.  That's life's lesson and it teaches us to look beyond man and look unto God for a closer and deeper understanding of who He is. 

I've never stopped 'breathing' or 'loving' because of someone else and neither have you.  You still have a strength and a character that keeps you going no matter what. 

I've personally experienced many disappointments, unwarranted attacks, critiicisms, mis-understandiings and misjudgments in this forum from day one just because I exposed myself as a Christian.  I've also stood my ground and I've fought back and yes I have also 'attacked'.   You've encountered the same and at some point, we all have. It's life. 

However, please do not allow that or anyone with whom you found disappointment or offense to stop you from learning more about Jesus Christ.  For it is not about Christianity...it's about Him and how much He loves you. 

I'll be the first to apologize to you for any offense that I have caused you personally.   Why?  Because *I have 'watched' you and I have always respected you.*  Any disagreements I've had with others has never had anything to do with you.  And I am speaking this to you publicly for a reason.  For it will never be assumed or said that I ever said or thought anything of the contrary about you or your faith as a Muslim.  Mind you, I said you personally.    

No matter what you have ever thought of me, or anyone else for that matter, let it be known that you should never give up any opportunity to have your questions answered about Jesus. No man or woman has that much power by word or deed to deny or hinder you from doing so.

If I am the one hindering or offending you, tell me.  I'll meet with you one on one to 'fix' it.  It's not about defending myself, but giving you respect that you deserve to feel at peace and welcome here and to have your desire of knowledge fulfilled.

Stay...


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## CaramelMiSS (Dec 15, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Amina, there will always be someone in this life who will fail you or disappoint you. That's life's lesson and it teaches us to look beyond man and look unto God for a closer and deeper understanding of who He is.
> 
> I've never stopped 'breathing' or 'loving' because of someone else and neither have you. You still have a strength and a character that keeps you going no matter what.
> 
> ...


 
Shimmie you are sooo kind that it almost brings me to tears when I read your comments.  I don't think that people try to attack Christians heck I really do not care for religion because the people that hold religion to tee feel like they are justified for a lot of stuff, e.g. 9-11 attacks.  I just believe in the bible and does what it says to do I think religion is just another division amongst people, Muslims don't like Jews, Jews well othrodox Jews don't like christians because they feel like they get comdemned, I am not a christian but a Messanic Jew I like it and all but I really believe that there is just too much division, if God is Allah and Allah is Adonai then why are we so separated we all believe in the same God that should be unity enough for us, instead people try to compete and see which religion will come out on top.


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## Shimmie (Dec 15, 2006)

CaramelMiSS said:
			
		

> Shimmie you are sooo kind that it almost brings me to tears when I read your comments. I don't think that people try to attack Christians heck I really do not care for religion because the people that hold religion to tee feel like they are justified for a lot of stuff, e.g. 9-11 attacks. I just believe in the bible and does what it says to do I think religion is just another division amongst people, Muslims don't like Jews, Jews well othrodox Jews don't like christians because they feel like they get comdemned, I am not a christian but a Messanic Jew I like it and all but I really believe that there is just too much division, if God is Allah and Allah is Adonai then why are we so separated we all believe in the same God that should be unity enough for us, instead people try to compete and see which religion will come out on top.


 
This brought tears to my eyes when I wrote it.  I don't want someone to suffer for any of my shortcomings as a human being.   If I am the one or even a part of this dear one turning away from this forum than I have to make it right with her.  

You say you are Messianic...Wow! . This is wonderful.  I have two friends who worhip in the Messianic faith here in Maryland.  They love it.  The worship is 'high' during the entire service.  They truly love the Lord Jesus Christ. 

Adonai...Lord of all.   

Thank you for sharing this.  The Holy Spirit sure knows where I live.  You were His messenger to me tonight.  

God bless you, dear one.


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## CaramelMiSS (Dec 15, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> This brought tears to my eyes when I wrote it. I don't want someone to suffer for any of my shortcomings as a human being. If I am the one or even a part of this dear one turning away from this forum than I have to make it right with her.
> 
> You say you are Messianic...Wow! . This is wonderful. I have two friends who worhip in the Messianic faith here in Maryland. They love it. The worship is 'high' during the entire service. They truly love the Lord Jesus Christ.
> 
> ...


 
It takes alot for one to admit to doing anything even if they believe they are without fault.  You are truely someone who God does favor and you don't have to say it because the words that you write truely show for themselves.   God bless you Shimmie I wish I could I meet people more like you.  You are truely a humble person.


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## Shimmie (Dec 15, 2006)

CaramelMiSS said:
			
		

> It takes alot for one to admit to doing anything even if they believe they are without fault. You *are truely someone who God does favor* and you don't have to say it because the words that you write truely show for themselves. God bless you Shimmie I wish I could I meet people more like you.* You are truely a humble person*.


 
Thank you for seeing my heart...it means more than you realize.  Humble comes from you.  For "Iron sharpens Iron."  It's not about us...but Adonai...

Take special care and thanks again for being the gift of the Holy Spirit.  Many blessings to you and to whom and all which means most to you.


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## Starian (Dec 16, 2006)

firecracker said:
			
		

> I think your on to something.
> *The witnesses don't have folk always trying to bust them out for some odd reason. How do they keep their secrets are beyond me.*


 
Yes, they do.  Sometimes it seems more than other religions.


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## Starian (Dec 16, 2006)

firecracker said:
			
		

> Amina please don't take one person's tirade and unkind comment out on all of us. I think the OP was speaking out of frustration from all the constant bashing.
> Christians do seem to always be under the ugliness microscope.
> 
> Your not the only one on the board that wants to learn about others belief system.
> ...


 
And you know this, mang.


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## StrawberryQueen (Dec 16, 2006)

What's a _messanic Jew _and what are "_witnesses_?"


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## Starian (Dec 16, 2006)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> What's a _messanic Jew _and what are "_witnesses_?"


 
Dunno, and Jehovah's Witnesses.


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## Bunny77 (Dec 16, 2006)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> What's a _messanic Jew _and what are "_witnesses_?"



The first one relates to Jews who believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that is referred to in the Old Testament. Most "mainstream" Jews do not consider Jesus as the Messiah, although He is respected as a great prophet and wonderful man.

This has been one of the reasons for historical strife between Christians and Jews despite the fact that both groups come from similar origins. Christians separated from Jews on the Jesus question.

If I am not stating this correctly, someone let me know.


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## StrawberryQueen (Dec 16, 2006)

Bunny77 said:
			
		

> The first one relates to Jews who believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that is referred to in the Old Testament. Most "mainstream" Jews do not consider Jesus as the Messiah, although He is respected as a great prophet and wonderful man.
> 
> This has been one of the reasons for historical strife between Christians and Jews despite the fact that both groups come from similar origins. Christians separated from Jews on the Jesus question.
> 
> If I am not stating this correctly, someone let me know.


Sounds interesting, but wouldn't they just be Christians and now Jews?


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## alexstin (Dec 16, 2006)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> Sounds interesting, but wouldn't they just be Christians and now Jews?




Messianic Jews are very involved with the traditions of Judaism. I believe that's the only difference(please correct me if I'm wrong). For example, acquaintances of mine attend a messianic temple and celebrate the Passover among othr Jewish holidays. They also observe the sabbath from Friday until Saturday.


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## Shimmie (Dec 16, 2006)

Bunny77 and Pastor Alexstin, both of you did a beautiful job.  Wow!

I found this online hoping it would answer more questions as well. I hope it helps.  I know that there may be some who say there is no such thing as a Messianic Jew, but this is their faith and I respect it.   

The thing is the very first Christians were Jews.   Mary the mother of Jesus was the first.  Afterall, she carried Him in her body for nine months.  Joseph her husband was 2nd first .   And the list goes on.  

There they were, Jews, at the beginning of Christian history, Jews who believed in the Messiah and that He had come... God's promise fulfilled. God's Word which became Flesh and dwelt among us.  

Here's the link:  http://www.heartofisrael.org/faq/3.html

*The HeartofIsrael.org Messianic FAQ *
*What is a Messianic Jew?* 

What is a Messianic Jew and why do they need their own community for worship, teaching, and fellowship?

1. Can a Christian Still be a Jew?
2. Are There Other Types of Jewish Christians?
3. What is a Messianic Jew?


*1. Can a Christian Still be a Jew?* - <A href="http://www.heartofisrael.org/faq/3.html#top">Top 

Halacha defines a Jew as one born of a Jewish Mother, who was born of a Jewish grandmother. Even apart from Rabbinic law, the term Jew is a racial designation, and is accepted as such by both secular and religious Judaica in order to separate them from other Semitic peoples. Scripturally, a Jew is a descendant of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob... which is a racial and familial designation.

But Jew is also a religious designation. Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Judaism define a religious Jew as a member of their particular denomination who keeps the Law of Moses as interpreted by their particular leadership. Biblical Christianity, however, defines a Jew as not one who is outwardly Jewish but one who is inwardly Jewish, believing that even those who are not racially Jewish have grafted into the G-d's family by redemptive power of Y'shua's (Jesus') resurrection. Amongst Jewish Christians there is a range of belief with Messianic Jews believing they are religious Jews following Messiah to Jewish Christians who follow more or less gentile forms of worship and identify themselves as racial Jews who are religiously Christian.

The answer to this question is YES... all who are of the seed of the Patriarch's are racially Jewish. The topic of religious Judaism is a valid subject of debate between Jewish Believer's in Messiah Y'shua only. - Updated: _November 6, 2004_ 

*2. Are There Other Types of Jewish Christians?* - <A href="http://www.heartofisrael.org/faq/3.html#top">Top 

Jewish Christians run a complete gamut from Observant Messianics, who are both outwardly and inwardly Jews, to Jewish (or Hebrew) Christians who worship in more traditional Gentile ways and are generally not Observant, to Jewish Christians who keep their Jewish roots though they worship in predominately Gentile Churches (these tend to be found in the more non-traditional Charismatic and Faith Churches and tend to be more than less Observant).

We hold that there are currently five general groups who can be identified as Jewish Christians:

Orthodox Messianics: Orthodox and generally observant Jews who have accepted Y'shua as Messiah but reject the claims of divinity usually
ascribed to him by Christianity. 

Messianic Jews: Typically but not necessarily observant Jews who accept Y'shua as the incarnate Son of G-d and the Messiah of Israel. Generally Theologically Christian and Liturgically Jewish. Many Messianics feel
that a Jewish form of worship is more natural and acceptable to Jews.

Jewish Christians: Christians of Jewish descent, who choose to worship in a traditional Gentile fashion, in a predominately Gentile church. Jewish Christians would not be considered Orthodox by the first two groups, but
maintain much of the Jewish customs and heritage, and many feel a call to educate Gentile believers on their Jewish heritage.

Hebrew Christians: Christians of Jewish descent, how have abandoned most outward signs of the Jewish heritage and assimilated into the traditional Gentile Church.

Messianic Converts: Gentile Christians, who because of their great love for the Judaic heritage of Christianity have joined Messianic Congregations and worship as Jews. These are not Jewish WannaBe's.... they are the Messianic 
equivalent of a Jewish Convert. - Updated: _November 5, 2004_ 

*3. What is a Messianic Jew?* - <A href="http://www.heartofisrael.org/faq/3.html#top">Top 
Though strictly applicable to a member of a Congregation which belongs to the United Messianic Jewish Conference (UMJC), the terms Messianic Jew, Jewish Christian, and Hebrew Christian are generically applied to all Christians of Jewish descent, whether or not their religious upbringing was considered Jewish. Many Gentiles who belong to UMJC Congregations also call themselves Messianic Jews to differentiate themselves from other Gentile Christians who do not worship in a traditional Jewish fashion.

Out of respect the writers of this FAQ will not attempt to describe the different types of Rabbinic Jews, for that information consult the FAQ for soc.culture.jewish to be found at www.jewfaq.org


Peace and Blessings Everyone...


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## Cichelle (Dec 16, 2006)

We have a name for Messianic Jews, Jews for Jesus and etc. That name is: Christian.


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## StrawberryQueen (Dec 17, 2006)

Cichelle said:
			
		

> *We have a name for Messianic Jews, Jews for Jesus and etc. That name is: Christian*.


 
That's what I'm saying, but I'm nto gonna fight someone over what they choose to be called.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Dec 17, 2006)

trimbride said:
			
		

> The thread title could be changed to
> 
> Hey Blacks, why do you think Blacks are always under attack?
> 
> ...



Overly sensitive? I think not. Observant to what's going on around me ? Yup.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Dec 17, 2006)

Amina said:
			
		

> I come on the Christian forum from time to time just to learn about other Christian beliefs (growing up Catholic, I wasn't exposed to other Christian ideology)...however, now I realize there is no point in this anymore...



Amina, please explain what you mean by there's no point in you coming here to learn about other Christian beliefs anymore.

Amina, I am going to be honest. I am pretty sure there are other religions that come under attack, but from what I gather, the one that's attacked the most is Christianity.  I can pull of TONS of threads on this board and others, turn on the tv (especially the history channel), etc etc and there will be something about Christianity and it's 'lies.' I have also noticed that when a Christian speaks about their beliefs whether asked or not, folks come out of every angle to try to hush us, but when another religious group does the same thing, there's this sudden need to listen to them and not hush them. It just seems that we are the least tolerable form of religion.


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## Bunny77 (Dec 17, 2006)

Cichelle said:
			
		

> We have a name for Messianic Jews, Jews for Jesus and etc. That name is: Christian.



Question... from what I know of these folks, they consider themselves culturally Jewish even though their beliefs do not fit the religious standards of Judaism... can't they still be "Jews" in a cultural sense?

I have a Jewish friend who is almost agnostic, but she feels strongly about her cultural ties to Judaism and wouldn't call herself anything but a Jew. 

So can a person have "Christian" beliefs and still be a cultural Jew?


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## Bunny77 (Dec 17, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Amina, please explain what you mean by there's no point in you coming here to learn about other Christian beliefs anymore.
> 
> Amina, I am going to be honest. I am pretty sure there are other religions that come under attack, but from what I gather, the one that's attacked the most is Christianity.  I can pull of TONS of threads on this board and others, turn on the tv (especially the history channel), etc etc and there will be something about Christianity and it's 'lies.' I have also noticed that when a Christian speaks about their beliefs whether asked or not, folks come out of every angle to try to hush us, but when another religious group does the same thing, there's this sudden need to listen to them and not hush them. It just seems that we are the least tolerable form of religion.



Hi.  

You know, I see your point, but I don't think that it's that cut and dried. I think because Christians are the overwhelming majority in this country, that's the group that will more often than not be subject to questioning and analysis. I also think that there is a need for many people who don't have faith in any form of higher power to start questioning the "truth" of religion and since Christianity is the largest group, it's targeted by more scientists and researchers. 

Also, in general, I think that people don't have a problem with other people's religious beliefs, but they don't like to feel that a religious code is being pushed on them if they want to speak of something in a secular nature. Again, with the majority of the population in the USA and on this board being Christian, it makes statistical sense that Christians would be most likely to be criticized for bringing a religious perspective into a secular topic. If this was a majority Muslim or majority Jewish board and the members were mostly presenting Jewish and Muslim beliefs as the ultimate truth, no ifs and or buts about it, then they'd be criticized equally. I don't think Christianity is under attack on this board, as most members are Christian. I think Christians are just more sensitive to it because we only see our side. As another poster said in a different thread, this seems to be the case with any group that's in the majority, whether it's race, gender, class or religion. "Our" status seems to be the norm, and we can only see it from our perspective. So when "others" start speaking up, then "we" feel attacked... when in fact, the others have been getting the brunt of the attacks for most of their lives but "we" don't notice it because we're safely sitting in the majority.

So, I don't agree that Christianity is the least tolerable form of religion. Despite the examples you mentioned, if Christianity was attacked the most, you would see mostly Christians being jailed under suspicion of terrorism when they express their faith (like Muslims do) or there would be groups that would have to be set up to protect Christians from religious-based hate crimes (like the ADL does for Jews and against anti-semitism). Amina mentioned on another thread that she's been told by friends not to wear a symbol of her faith (the veil) for fear of being attacked. One of my Jewish friends grew up being told by her mother not to immediately tell people she was Jewish because of anti-semitism. I don't know too many Christians who have been afraid for their safety wearing a cross necklace, for example, or who were told for their "protection" not to reveal their Christianity. Being a Christian in this country will rarely subject you to public ridicule or attack, but being a member of other religions surely will. 

I have had the opportunity to live in a lot of cities in this country and everywhere I go I see Christian churches that are long-standing and new ones popping up everyday. There is little public objections to these churches, but when Muslims try to build a new mosque, there is a huge outcry. Do a Google search for Houston and mosque and see the disgusting stories you'll find.

There are Christian television networks and Christian programs available to every citizen of this country, many that have been run for decades. Athletes, musicians and anyone receiving an award thanks God, and they usually mean the Christian God. When they do this, folks give them tons of applause for having so much faith. (I'd love to see what they'd do if they gave thanks to Allah or Ganeesh... don't think they'd get much of a response.) At my public college, there were multiple organizations for Christian students and even kids at my public high school had a group that did Bible studies and morning prayers around the flag pole. 

No other religious group in the country can truly say that their faith has the same presence as Christianity. 

And I know that I can't go a day anywhere in this country without being reminded how much Christianity is a part of the fabric of America and how most Christians will probably never be ostracized or victimized because of our faith, while Jews and Muslims and others in this country face it quite often. 

I simply think this is a case in which we're so concerned about the negative (and rightfully so, in some cases) that we're not looking at the big picture.


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## StrawberryQueen (Dec 17, 2006)

Bunny77 said:
			
		

> Hi.
> 
> You know, I see your point, but I don't think that it's that cut and dried. I think because Christians are the overwhelming majority in this country, that's the group that will more often than not be subject to questioning and analysis. I also think that there is a need for many people who don't have faith in any form of higher power to start questioning the "truth" of religion and since Christianity is the largest group, it's targeted by more scientists and researchers.
> 
> ...


 
ITA!


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## pebbles (Dec 17, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Overly sensitive? I think not. Observant to what's going on around me ? Yup.


 
ITA!!!


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## pebbles (Dec 17, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Amina, please explain what you mean by there's no point in you coming here to learn about other Christian beliefs anymore.
> 
> Amina, I am going to be honest. *I am pretty sure there are other religions that come under attack, but from what I gather, the one that's attacked the most is Christianity. I can pull of TONS of threads on this board* and others, turn on the tv (*especially the history channel*), etc etc and there will be something about Christianity and it's 'lies.' *I have also noticed that when a Christian speaks about their beliefs whether asked or not, folks come out of every angle to try to hush us, but when another religious group does the same thing, there's this sudden need to listen to them and not hush them. It just seems that we are the least tolerable form of religion.*


 
The History Channel? Watch for a show called The Execution of Jesus. That should thrill you. Mostly garbage. LOL! 

Can there really be any question that Christians are the most villified on this forum? You know somebody's going to disagree, but I challenge that person to pull up all the threads that are constantly bashing Christians, and all the threads bashing another religion on this forum, and show me which list of threads is longer. Much, much, much longer. 

You almost can't make a comment on any subject without people trying to tell you that you're being judgemental about everything. Even here on the Christianity forum you aren't free to express your beliefs without folks coming into the threads here and hijacking a conversation that _naturally_ would have a Christian slant. It happens_* all the time*_. Despite the Christianity forum rules, I let it go often times because I like to see who really thinks what. I've learned a lot about different people and how they really think about Christians, in general.

The truth is that your religious beliefs shape your opinions of the world around you. Why people can't see that, I don't know, but being Christian certainly _appears _to disqualify us from many of the conversations taking place on the boards, based on the reaction of some members when we post. Again, some people will most likely scoff at my statement, but it's true, nonetheless.


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## firecracker (Dec 17, 2006)

Bubblin and Bunny both raise some very good points and food for thought.  We need to go outside ourselves and see beyond the attacks because we know that humans like to nick pick someone elses personal and religious choices to death.  I do feel Chrisitians and Muslims are attacked the most though. erplexed


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## Cichelle (Dec 17, 2006)

Bunny77 said:
			
		

> Question... from what I know of these folks, they consider themselves culturally Jewish even though their beliefs do not fit the religious standards of Judaism... can't they still be "Jews" in a cultural sense?
> 
> I have a Jewish friend who is almost agnostic, but she feels strongly about her cultural ties to Judaism and wouldn't call herself anything but a Jew.
> 
> So can a person have "Christian" beliefs and still be a cultural Jew?



That's a great question, which I will answer by way of private message because I am not allowed to talk about Judaism/Torah in the Christianity forum, nor do I want to hijack the thread.


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## pebbles (Dec 17, 2006)

Cichelle said:
			
		

> That's a great question, which I will answer by way of private message because I am not allowed to talk about Judaism/Torah in the Christianity forum, nor do I want to hijack the thread.


 
 As I stated before, a lot of people speak on the Christianity forum who aren't Christian, and we've let them.


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## CaramelMiSS (Dec 17, 2006)

Cichelle said:
			
		

> We have a name for Messianic Jews, Jews for Jesus and etc. That name is: Christian.


 
I am not a Christian and I am a Messianic Jew, just because I believe that Yeshua is the Messiah does not deny me the right to be Jewish.  I know that most Jews do not read the New Testament but they read the tanakh.  But Rabbi Paul did not denouce his being Jewish just because he believed in Yeshua, and neither will I.  In the old testament it gives signs and states what the Messiah will do when comes.  So far what I have read about Yeshua has coincided with what many of the prophets from the tanakh have written.


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## BlkManWithSomeSense (Dec 17, 2006)

Christianity is deeply embedded in the roots of America. Many of our laws and morals were shaped after Christian beliefs, which makes Christianity the 'big kid on the block'. It doesn't surprise me that Christianity is the biggest target but what does surprise me is how effective the assaults have been lately. 

For years, many have challenged the validity of separation of church and state, believing it to be a farce and that Christianity subtlety imposes it's will in government policy. Over time that view has grown and now there are 'movements' seeking to exorcise Christian values from all facets of Government. It's no surprise that the majority of these movements would be considered 'infidels' according to our beliefs. Christians have been slow to act because our belief in giving a fellow man the benefit of the doubt has under minded us. Only seeing when it's too late what that early trust has cost.

So America is basically booting Christianity beliefs and saying they wish to self discipline itself . Hmm. So no more Love thy neighbor, No more good samaritans, No more ten commandments. No more rules of Bankruptcy for forgiving debts after 7 years, No more a 'Sin is a Sin' and no more marrying at city hall before a non denominational minister there need only be someone who represents the county, state or federal govt of the U.S.A. 

The downside to this is absence of a moral center. Anything pretty much goes as long as the Law of the land is not broken. Infidelity isn't a crime so cheating is on the rise. Fornication has replaced handshaking. Family values don't exist because we have no moral laws or agenda so there is less cause to build new families. Individual empowerment is the new game in town. We celebrate the freedom to do what we want but we do not bring the same level of moderation and control in our decisions needed to maintain balance. Is it any wonder why so many complain of a lack of fulfillment in their lives, feeling like they are just 'going through the motions'... but thats for another post..LOL

If thats how the USA wants it... fine but I think for now it's important to get more involved in the church because theres much to consider. I truly believe we are at a crossroads in our ministry. We must decide what direction we want to take things. What type of people are we empowering to be our spiritual leaders? Are we electing them on how good they make us feel or how they challenge us, even telling us things we may not want to hear. Theres alot of change these days under our spiritual roofs and it's not necessarily for the good. In the meanwhile, expect more intense attacks. It's not going to stop anytime soon.


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## Amina (Dec 17, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Amina, please explain what you mean by there's no point in you coming here to learn about other Christian beliefs anymore.
> 
> Amina, I am going to be honest. I am pretty sure there are other religions that come under attack, but from what I gather, the one that's attacked the most is Christianity.  I can pull of TONS of threads on this board and others, turn on the tv (especially the history channel), etc etc and there will be something about Christianity and it's 'lies.' I have also noticed that when a Christian speaks about their beliefs whether asked or not, folks come out of every angle to try to hush us, but when another religious group does the same thing, there's this sudden need to listen to them and not hush them. It just seems that we are the least tolerable form of religion.



I wasn't going to comment but since Shimmie pm me regarding her post I came back.

Bunny77 was right on point...

Why I felt that it would be pointless to come back? Because no matter how much I will say that it is harder being a Muslim than a Christian...I would feel that most will think I am exaggerating...

I was Christian before and yes I endure religious bashing (I still never understood why some Christians believe Catholics aren't Christians) but not as much as I am enduring now (believe me the grass isn't greener on this side of the fence)....I cry (yes cry) for the chance that one day I can walk into a room and everyone don't go quiet and stare at me...For a month (yes just one month) that I don't get surprise looks or compliments on how well I speak English for a Muslim (been speaking English my whole life), or for a chance to hear "So what state you are from" instead of "What country you are from", even for a chance to simply befriend people without them feeling the need to convert me...

As a Muslim I have been called names "Osama's whore" "Bin Laden's *itch", etc. (Never had I went through this when I was Catholic). I have been told by soo many people that I am oppressed (Nope just depressed that you think I am oppressed) or that I am brainwashed or that I was forced by my husband (Not even married yet) or my father (who, last I heard was Catholic) to wear a scarf....

I have been to lectures where the speaker decided to show the "Truth about Islam" or how Muslims wanted to kill all Americans...I went to a church where the Pastor lecture on how Muslims are evil and wanted to kill all Christians, he spoke about how Allah is a stone god (and compared Allah to Zeus)...I have read articles after articles on how the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a pedophile and how he spread Islam by the sword, forced people to convert or die. I heard people speak about how Jesus of the bible isn't the same Jesus of the Qurâ€™an...I could go on and on...I can post Google videos, youtube videos, etc. forum after forum of "The truth about Islam/Muslims/Muhammad ,etc." I can post articles after articles on how all Muslims are terrorists; blogs after blogs about how all Muslims want to take over the world...

I live in a period of time where there is over a million Muslims world wide, yet I am judge according to the few extremist who, ignorant of what true Islam teaches, decides that by blowing themselves up they will get to heaven...

So why there arenâ€™t any shows about the Truth about Islam on the History channel? Simple, in this day and age where anything can fuel the fire of an already lit flame, I truly doubt the History channel will air something like this...the extremist already shown how serious they take insults (did we all for get the Danish Cartoons?).

Have any of you all walked into Church and tried to figure out if there is an FBI or CIA agent listening in on your conversation? To not speak freely b/c you are afraid your words might be mistaken as a terrorist plot?

Just recently I learned, from my friend who works in the government, that a Muslim man in the community has be enlisted as an informant here...Why are some Muslims worried? If the said man has a grudged or is jealous of someone who is to say he won't turn that person in as a terrorist?

Yes I agree that all religions have came under attack no matter what their religion maybe...but of the three, I feel it is Muslims, Jews, and than Christians (in that order)...(hell Muslims are killing Muslims b/c they are Sunnis or Shias...if all it takes is a few TV shows or a tons of articles to be hated on, I say bring it on, at least I can argue against it b/c it sure beats being called a terrorist.)

Maybe one day one of you might want to walk a month or two in my hijab (not talking about converting just talking about experience here) and see what it feels to be a Muslim in America.


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## StrawberryQueen (Dec 17, 2006)

Wow Amina, you really poured your heart out.  I hope people listen.


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## StrawberryQueen (Dec 17, 2006)

trimbride said:
			
		

> The thread title could be changed to
> 
> Hey Blacks, why do you think Blacks are always under attack?
> 
> ...


I agree with this.  If we took out the word Christianity in everyone's post and put black man or white woman, then we'd have the essence of every debate that goes on in the world.

Everyone feels persecuted, and everyone feels as if they are persecuted more than the other, and that no one understands their persecution.  

Tis life.


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## Amina (Dec 17, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Amina, there will always be someone in this life who will fail you or disappoint you.  That's life's lesson and it teaches us to look beyond man and look unto God for a closer and deeper understanding of who He is.
> 
> I've never stopped 'breathing' or 'loving' because of someone else and neither have you.  You still have a strength and a character that keeps you going no matter what.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the PM 

Indeed you are right *Shimme*. I written out of fustration...I will continue to learn here...though we may not be in agreement when it comes to beliefs, I think the Christian Abyssinian King summed it up when he said "christianity and islam are two shafts of light from the same source".

If we cannot learn from one another than there will be no unity amoung us


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## *Happily Me* (Dec 17, 2006)

Bunny77 said:
			
		

> Hi.
> 
> You know, I see your point, but I don't think that it's that cut and dried. I think because Christians are the overwhelming majority in this country, that's the group that will more often than not be subject to questioning and analysis. I also think that there is a need for many people who don't have faith in any form of higher power to start questioning the "truth" of religion and since Christianity is the largest group, it's targeted by more scientists and researchers.
> 
> ...



well said bunny


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## BlkManWithSomeSense (Dec 17, 2006)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> I agree with this. If we took out the word Christianity in everyone's post and put black man or white woman, then we'd have the essence of every debate that goes on in the world.
> 
> Everyone feels persecuted, and everyone feels as if they are persecuted more than the other, and that no one understands their persecution.
> 
> Tis life.


 
So basicaly you feel it's more a matter of oversensitivity than a noted observation? I certainly wouldnt argue with Amina's sentiment because much of what she says rings true but I think it's fair to say the intensity of attacks towards Christians has increased. It's really unfortunate that  Muslims are under the microscope. Right now they are catching pure fire because of Sept 11. I have good friends and neighbors who are muslims and I have nothing but respect and admiration for them.

Can we agree that Religion as a whole is under great attack? I think thats a good compromise. It would be too tedious to approach this as ' my religion suffers more than you' because we are all in the same boat to degree. However I think the conversation dissipates when more focus is given towards the generalization in the question than getting to the 'heart' of the thread. Why has the intensity increased? Maybe it's morality changes or a directional change towards individual empowerment than spiritual empowerment. Whatever some of the suggestions may be , there is no denying the intensity. It's not in 'our' head that this is going on.


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## Aubergold (Dec 17, 2006)

Amina said:
			
		

> I wasn't going to comment but since Shimmie pm me regarding her post I came back.
> 
> Bunny77 was right on point...
> 
> ...


 
Wow, Amina.
Stay strong.  Whatever religion we are, we must ultimately do the best with what we have.
You have truly opened up my eyes.

I really wish you well and pray for strength for you.


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## Amina (Dec 17, 2006)

Trini"T" said:
			
		

> Well, I think Christianity may seem threatening to others because according to the Bible, they won't be able to go to heaven because of their lifestyle, practices, or beliefs.  Also, because these same people see what a large impact Christianity has in the world.



I can see how it can look this way from your side...

However, I don't think that is a popular belief amoung all...since not everyone follows biblical beliefs and according to other belief it is the other way around...All non-believers aren't going to heaven, etc (hell according to my belief, anyone who believes in the one-ness of God has just as much chance of getting into heaven as a believer does).

So basically your phrase can fit just about any religion:

I think *(insert religion here)* may seem threatening to others because according to the *(insert religious book, religious doctrine here)* Also, because these same people see what a large impact *(insert belief here)* has in the world.


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## Shimmie (Dec 17, 2006)

Amina said:
			
		

> Thanks for the PM
> 
> Indeed you are right *Shimme*. I written out of fustration...I will continue to learn here...though we may not be in agreement when it comes to beliefs, I think the Christian Abyssinian King summed it up when he said "christianity and islam are two shafts of light from the same source".
> 
> If we cannot learn from one another than there will be no unity amoung us


Amina...welcome back .  We can 'fix' this.  Without 'pushing' or judging, we can 'fix' this.  

I read your post above, and what you said convicted my heart.  And it was needed to be 'said' for when do we 'all' stop and see what's beneath each other's hearts.  In you I see a woman who walked away from the hurts of one faith only now you have been subjected to deeper hurts undeserved.  

I hope that I am able to share what blesses you most.  I also would like to learn from you as well.  For this we share, persecution of our faith which can be healed with the love of a sister (or brother).   Religion (that of man's doctrines) doesn't change sister or brotherhood.  We're still connected to each other.

Love and blessings,


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## StrawberryQueen (Dec 17, 2006)

BlkManWithSomeSense said:
			
		

> *So basicaly you feel it's more a matter of oversensitivity than a noted observation?* I certainly wouldnt argue with Amina's sentiment because much of what she says rings true but I think it's fair to say the intensity of attacks towards Christians has increased. It's really unfortunate that Muslims are under the microscope. Right now they are catching pure fire because of Sept 11. I have good friends and neighbors who are muslims and I have nothing but respect and admiration for them.
> 
> *Can we agree that Religion as a whole is under great attack?* I think thats a good compromise. It would be too tedious to approach this as ' my religion suffers more than you' because we are all in the same boat to degree. However I think the conversation dissipates when more focus is given towards the generalization in the question than getting to the 'heart' of the thread. Why has the intensity increased? Maybe it's morality changes or a directional change towards individual empowerment than spiritual empowerment. Whatever some of the suggestions may be , there is no denying the intensity. It's not in 'our' head that this is going on.


 
Well I don't know if it's soley oversensitivity, but this sounds like a combination of the two.  You can't help but be overly sensitive to the issues that concern your heart.  For example, I am very sensitive to the issue that plague black women, so when I look at a certain situation I may feel that we are always put down, looked at as useless, simply because I choose to concern myself with said issue.  And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as we realize it's not just "us" who are suffering.  We all have our battles with the world.

And to say religion as a whole is under attack is 100% correct.  Every religion is being torn down by our modern society amoral.  And Christianity is one of the "big" ones, and Islam has been turned into the religion of terrorists, and of course all the Jews killed Christ.  So everything is a mess!


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## alexstin (Dec 17, 2006)

In the US I don't think Christianity is under attack. We may be ridiculed or criticized but attacked...... I just don't see that in the US. Maybe "attacked" needs to be defined?

As far as the criticizing and the like. Well, the enemy has darkened the minds of many but sadly, I think the body of Christ has a big part to play in the way we've been perceived.


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## Bunny77 (Dec 17, 2006)

Co-signing with StrawberryQueen and Alexstin.

And Amina... wow, I had no idea. Keep your head up.


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## Shimmie (Dec 17, 2006)

BlkManWithSomeSense said:
			
		

> Christianity is deeply embedded in the roots of America. Many of our laws and morals were shaped after Christian beliefs, which makes Christianity the 'big kid on the block'. *It doesn't surprise me that Christianity is the biggest target but what does surprise me is how effective the assaults have been lately. *
> 
> For years, many have challenged the validity of separation of church and state, believing it to be a farce and that Christianity subtlety imposes it's will in government policy. *Over time that view has grown and now there are 'movements' seeking to exorcise Christian values from all facets of Government. It's no surprise that the majority of these movements would be considered 'infidels' according to our beliefs.* Christians have been slow to act because our belief in giving a fellow man the benefit of the doubt has under minded us. *Only seeing when it's too late what that early trust has cost.*
> 
> ...


 
Excellent!


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## charmingt (Dec 17, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> If people don't believe in Jesus or the Bible, why do they feel the need to so call 'expose the real truths?' Why don't I see or hear of exposing the truths of the Koran, Torah, etc?
> I don't get it. If I don't believe in something, I just leave it at that. If something angers me just by its mention, I leave it alone. The name Jesus angers so many, but those same angry people feel the need to confront the world of the 'truths about Jesus.' It seems to me that Christianity is threatening to others. What do you ladies (and gents) think?


 
Hi Bublnbrnsuga,  
 About your question, there is a determination by Satan to destroy Christianity.  He will use deception in many different ways because he knows his time is limited.  Jesus took the keys of Hell and Death from him and made an open show of him.  So he has been defeated and humiliated.  Until Jesus comes back there will be anger in many forms because he is behind all evil.


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## Cichelle (Dec 17, 2006)

CaramelMiSS said:
			
		

> I am not a Christian and I am a Messianic Jew, just because I believe that Yeshua is the Messiah does not deny me the right to be Jewish.  I know that most Jews do not read the New Testament but they read the tanakh.  But Rabbi Paul did not denouce his being Jewish just because he believed in Yeshua, and neither will I.  In the old testament it gives signs and states what the Messiah will do when comes.  So far what I have read about Yeshua has coincided with what many of the prophets from the tanakh have written.



Yes, I understand you feel that way. But the things you've said here are precisely the reason that you are considered a Christian and will not be recognized as a Jew by most Jewish denominations or organizations, nor the State of Israel. You may or may not care about that. But regardless, it's just the way it is.   

Don't blame me. I don't make the rules.

If you want to talk about this further, feel free to send me a pm.


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## firecracker (Dec 18, 2006)

Blackmanwithsomesense you definitely covered all the bases and the basics of the moraless world we live in today.  

Amina I am so sorry and know that it is a challenge daily to stand tall in todays hateful climate towards Muslims.


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## Nice & Wavy (Dec 18, 2006)

I thought this was for a good read.  Blessings upon the reading of God's Word!!!

 Romans 14: 1-23

 1 Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and donâ€™t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. 2 For instance, one person believes itâ€™s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. 3 Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who donâ€™t. And those who donâ€™t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to condemn someone elseâ€™s servants? They are responsible to the Lord, so let him judge whether they are right or wrong. And with the Lordâ€™s help, they will do what is right and will receive his approval. 

 5 In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. 6 Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. 7 For we donâ€™t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. 8 If we live, itâ€™s to honor the Lord. And if we die, itâ€™s to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. *9 Christ died and rose again for this very purposeâ€”to be Lord both of the living and of the dead. *
* 10 So why do you condemn another believer? Why do you look down on another believer? Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For the Scriptures say, *
*   â€œâ€˜As surely as I live,â€™ says the Lord,
   â€˜every knee will bend to me,
      and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.â€™â€ *
* 12 Yes, each of us will give a personal account to God.* 13 So letâ€™s stop condemning each other. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not cause another believer to stumble and fall. 
 14 I know and am convinced on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong. 15 And if another believer is distressed by what you eat, you are not acting in love if you eat it. Donâ€™t let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died. 16 Then you will not be criticized for doing something you believe is good. 17 For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God, and others will approve of you, too. 19 So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up.  20 Donâ€™t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another believer to stumble. 22 You may believe thereâ€™s nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who donâ€™t feel guilty for doing something they have decided is right. 23 But if you have doubts about whether or not you should eat something, you are sinning if you go ahead and do it. For you are not following your convictions. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.


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## Shimmie (Dec 18, 2006)

Nice & Wavy said:
			
		

> I thought this was for a good read. Blessings upon the reading of God's Word!!!
> 
> Romans 14: 1-23
> 
> ...


This is an excellent word, Nice & Wavy.

The passage that I 'bolded' in dark red above no longer has it's intent for meaning in these days.  The 'Church' has become de-sensitized in what is and what should not exceptable.  Conviction and/or 'guilt' has become half-stance...just a little too liberal.   

Key words, in what *'they have decided is right*...."They", meaning an individual or group...justifying their acts or the means thereof.   For they have confiormed to the world or their own selfish desires rendering God's word to them as non principle. 

This is still an excellent post and I'm glad that I stopped to read it.


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