# Can christians give blood?



## cutiestyles (Nov 18, 2005)

Ladies I just wanted to ask your opinion on blood donations. My Jehovah witness friend said it is not right to give blood because it is sacred from God. Which I accept but if someone in need suffering from say cancer relied on a  blood donor to live would it not be the right to give in such circumstances?


----------



## wyldcurlz (Nov 18, 2005)

Of course Christians can (and should) give blood! It is sacred from God and that is why he gave us, healthy people such a generous supply of it, so that we can help those in need. It is one of the best gifts we can give another. I'd encourage you to donate blood and marrow. The black community especially needs to hear this. When it comes to certain issues like bone marrow - another person of your ethnicity is most likely to have a marrow match - we need more black donors of blood and (if possible) marrow! 

I'll step down from my soapbox now.


----------



## Mamita (Nov 18, 2005)

IMO totally. If i can help my fellow human being, then i'm no good. I think our only purpose down here is to help each other, and if blodd is one thing i can do, then that's what i'm gonna do.

Saying that blood is sacred from God is ok, but using that to say, "im not gonna share it" isn't cool to me. But hey whatever floats their boat.

You might have been looking for an answer from a "more christian" person, but the answer from the "christian/catholic with a twist" is : hell yeah i would !!

BTW, i also mean any kind of organ transplant that's not going to threaten me i'm all for it. like bone marrow, or something that comes in pair but i don't need both...

To me God gave us the intelligence to invent ways to "play" with the body so that we can help the sick. Oh and i want to be an organ donor when i die!


----------



## Mamita (Nov 18, 2005)

Oh yeah and i remember when my mom would leave me alone in the house when i was a little younger, she would tell me : 

"ok if you see two people holding little booklets and talking about some tower, just yell through the door : we give our blood!!"

The thing is, several times is was trapped letting the witnesses in just because i couldn't say no, and they would talk, i would look interested but inside i'd just be "man how can i get rid of them before mom comes back?"! So she told me don't open the door and say that. It did work, they would go away almost instantly lool   

Sorry didn't want to offend anyone, just that blood and Jehova's witness remind me of something lol


----------



## cutiestyles (Nov 18, 2005)

wyldcurlz said:
			
		

> Of course Christians can (and should) give blood! It is sacred from God and that is why he gave us, healthy people such a generous supply of it, so that we can help those in need. It is one of the best gifts we can give another. I'd encourage you to donate blood and marrow. The black community especially needs to hear this. When it comes to certain issues like bone marrow - another person of your ethnicity is most likely to have a marrow match - we need more black donors of blood and (if possible) marrow!
> 
> I'll step down from my soapbox now.



I agree with you. Because I have been invited to a blood clinic to register and I told my best friend about it. But coming from a family of Jehovah Witnesses she really discouraged me from doing this. It had quite a negative effect on me to be honest. She was saying once I've done it thats it you can't go back. I think thats what she's been brought up to believe. But she is not a practicising witness in a sense that she doesn't really follow the Kingdom hall and stuff like that. I told one pastor at my church he said that they don't believe in blood donors and even some operations but the will of God. Which in my opinion is a bit extreme.  I said to her that if you was in a positon where you would need a donor wouldn't you want someone to come forward and help out? She just said that; but thats not the case and your not in a positon where help is directly needed from you! JW's support this with acts 15:20/29. I'm  quite disheartend by my friends reaction.


----------



## foxybrownsugar (Nov 18, 2005)

*I feel like if God could shed all his blood to save humanity then I can share 1 pint to save a one person.*


----------



## StartinOvah (Nov 18, 2005)

i have donated and i will continue to donate. my next donation will just be for sickel cell patients. i'm o positive. i think thats the type that any type can receive. (or is that negative??) i don't remember. i don't think about it as the christian thing to do, although i'm sure unconsciously thats part of it. i think about all the people who need blood to live or make it through surgery. i am also an organ donor.  

i have never looked into donating bone marrow but i will.


----------



## star (Nov 18, 2005)

cutiestyles said:
			
		

> Ladies I just wanted to ask your opinion on blood donations. My Jehovah witness friend said it is not right to give blood because it is sacred from God. Which I accept but if someone in need suffering from say cancer relied on a  blood donor to live would it not be the right to give in such circumstances?


There is nothing wrong with giving blood. It is a act of kindness and love to give anything that will help others. Ask your friend if they had a sick child that needed their blood to survive would they donate? I hope so.


----------



## CandiceC (Nov 18, 2005)

I believe it's fine to give blood. Now if I have is another story. I'm too scared of needles.


----------



## shalom (Nov 18, 2005)

Cutie,  There is nothing wrong with donating blood, as others have said God shed his precious so that we might have life.  Blood is life giving.  I'm O positive as well STAR and from what I understand if you are in the O family you are considered a universal donor.  I feel it's duty to donate.


----------



## cutiestyles (Nov 18, 2005)

Thank you very much ladies for your positive feed back you have all really put my mind at ease. I think it is important to help people especially as christians but the way my friend was speaking was like I was comprimising my christainity. My christian friend at work just said that it a good thing to help out people. She encouraged me to and said that she has many a time donated blodd and she'd do it again. Its amazing how we can all believe in Jesus but have different beliefs.

Thanks again


----------



## BLESSED1 (Nov 18, 2005)

foxybrownsugar said:
			
		

> *I feel like if God could shed all his blood to save humanity then I can share 1 pint to save a one person.*



awesome


----------



## mahogany (Nov 18, 2005)

My Pastor told me it was not good to give your blood or plasma in exchange for money. Even if you are giving it to a clinic I would still encourage everyone to pray over it because we really don't know where our soul is and by giving your blood you are giving someone a piece of you that could be spiritual. 

11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.  Leviticus 17:11


----------



## DDTexlaxed (Nov 21, 2005)

I'm going to clarify something because there is a minor misunderstanding here about what JWs belief of blood. First, and foremost, I am not condemning anyone for their own beliefs, but please understand that it is not just because JWS are told not to give blood. As anyone knows, people will do what they want. We are educated in other medical choices that many don't realize exist. Taking blood is not the only option for medical use. Yes, everyone knows about Jws belief, but did u realize that in the Bible, blood was never used to prolong life, it was always used  in a sacrifical way pointing to Jesus' ultimate life blood being poured for forgiveness of sins? I never usually post about religious beliefs, but I hope I shed a little light on the subject. That principle and the Scriptures that say not to eat blood alone is the reason why JWS don't take blood nor give blood for others to use. I hope noone takes offense to my post.


----------



## sprungonhairboards (Nov 21, 2005)

mahogany said:
			
		

> My Pastor told me it was not good to give your blood or plasma in exchange for money. Even if you are giving it to a clinic *I would still encourage everyone to pray over it because we really don't know where our soul is and by giving your blood you are giving someone a piece of you that could be spiritual. *
> 
> 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.  Leviticus 17:11



what?


----------



## mahogany (Nov 21, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> what?




I don't know! LOL I was trying to reiterate what he told me but it didn't come out right.


----------



## fivefoursweetie (Nov 22, 2005)

Natrlchallenge said:
			
		

> I'm going to clarify something because there is a minor misunderstanding here about what JWs belief of blood. First, and foremost, I am not condemning anyone for their own beliefs, but please understand that it is not just because JWS are told not to give blood. As anyone knows, people will do what they want. We are educated in other medical choices that many don't realize exist. Taking blood is not the only option for medical use. Yes, everyone knows about Jws belief, but did u realize that in the Bible, blood was never used to prolong life, it was always used  in a sacrifical way pointing to Jesus' ultimate life blood being poured for forgiveness of sins? I never usually post about religious beliefs, but I hope I shed a little light on the subject. That principle and the Scriptures that say not to eat blood alone is the reason why JWS don't take blood nor give blood for others to use. I hope noone takes offense to my post.


Thank you for posting because I didn't know the reasoning behind that...that explanation was very insightful.


----------



## uncutandgettinglonger (Nov 22, 2005)

Yes. I think that I might have been the one no vote, because I think that I might have clicked the wrong one.


----------



## cutiestyles (Nov 22, 2005)

I think that at the end of the day God knows what is in everyone's heart. If a small amount of blood can help save a life then why not? If the tables where turned and you needed blood for the sake of your life who would refuse it? Registering to be a blood donor or bone marrow is not for the sake of sacrificing. To help a fellow human being in need is something I believe God would not frown upon.


----------



## good2uuuu (Nov 27, 2005)

mahogany said:
			
		

> *My Pastor told me it was not good to give your blood or* *plasma in exchange for money*. Even if you are giving it to a clinic I would still encourage everyone to pray over it because we really don't know where our soul is and by giving your blood you are giving someone a piece of you that could be spiritual.
> 
> 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. Leviticus 17:11




The Red Cross doesn't give money for donating. Plus blood is life, not spirit.


----------



## good2uuuu (Nov 27, 2005)

Natrlchallenge said:
			
		

> I'm going to clarify something because there is a minor misunderstanding here about what JWs belief of blood. First, and foremost, I am not condemning anyone for their own beliefs, but please understand that it is not just because JWS are told not to give blood. As anyone knows, people will do what they want. We are educated in other medical choices that many don't realize exist. Taking blood is not the only option for medical use. Yes, everyone knows about Jws belief, but did u realize that in the Bible, blood was never used to prolong life, it was always used in a sacrifical way pointing to Jesus' ultimate life blood being poured for forgiveness of sins? I never usually post about religious beliefs, but I hope I shed a little light on the subject. *That principle and the Scriptures that say not to eat blood alone is the reason* *why JWS don't take blood nor give blood for others to use.* I hope noone takes offense to my post.



I'm not clear here. How does donating blood or being infused with blood equate with eating blood? People aren't out there 'using' blood all willy nilly. It goes directly into the veins, not in the mouth.  I'm, not being crass here, but I just find this point quite confusing. That's all.


----------



## good2uuuu (Nov 27, 2005)

foxybrownsugar said:
			
		

> *I feel like if God could shed all his blood to save humanity then I can share 1 pint to save a one person.*



Exactly! This is how I feel.


----------



## cece22 (Dec 2, 2005)

good2uuuu said:
			
		

> I'm not clear here. How does donating blood or being infused with blood equate with eating blood? People aren't out there 'using' blood all willy nilly. It goes directly into the veins, not in the mouth. I'm, not being crass here, but I just find this point quite confusing. That's all.


 
*Many* *say* *receiving* *a* *transfusion* *is* *not* *like* *eating* *blood.* *Is* *this* *view* *sound?
*​*
*A patient in the hospital may be fed through the mouth, through the nose, or through the veins. When sugar solutions are given intravenously, it is called intravenous feeding. So the hospital’s own terminology recognizes as feeding the process of putting nutrition into one’s system via the veins. Hence the attendant administering the transfusion is feeding the patient blood through the veins, and the patient receiving it is eating it through his veins. After all the artful contrivings and reasonings and quibblings are over, the bald fact remains that a goodly quantity of one creature’s blood has been deliberately taken into the system of another.


----------



## Crystalicequeen123 (Dec 2, 2005)

Thank you* Natrlchallenge* for your input.   I'm a JW, and I think you stated JW beliefs quite eloquently.   

I'm not going to make a huge post about this since I know that this (and religious subjects in general) can be really touchy.  But what I will say is that everyone has a CHOICE.  I could be wrong, but I believe that our decision not to give * OR * recieve blood (this isn't just a selfish thing) is a matter of a personal decision.  In my kingdom hall at least, we are asked and encouraged  to do our own research before we sign any "No blood cards".  

There are many different alternatives to blood transfusions that have been researched by doctors and scientists, but it's just not common knowledge as much as blood transfusions are.  Also, some people who have received blood transfusions have been helped...but some (SOME)  have also died because of their body rejecting it, and because of aids, etc.  It's just that blood is very sacred.  But there are ways to use alternative practices to blood transfusions.  We even have a very informative video on this. 

Another reason is because of the belief in a resurrection.  This life is not all there is. 

Lastly, I will say this:  
If your doctor told you not to eat poison, would you then go figure that it was okay to inject poison into your veins??  This is sort of how some JW view the eating of blood and blood transfusions.  It's basically the same thing.  

But like I said, it's a personal decision.  I don't know of any JW that take blood transfusions, but I wouldn't be surprised if some have/did.


----------



## Stylepink (Dec 3, 2005)

Crystalice and Natrlchallege, you both did a great job stating our views. Thank you.


----------



## BAILEYSCREAM (Dec 3, 2005)

cutiestyles said:
			
		

> Ladies I just wanted to ask your opinion on blood donations. My Jehovah witness friend said it is not right to give blood because it is sacred from God. Which I accept but if someone in need suffering from say cancer relied on a blood donor to live would it not be the right to give in such circumstances?



As far as I know Jehovah witnesses do not give blood.  As far as Christians giving blood, I think that just depends on which Christian Denomination they belong to, as some denominations have differing views on this subject.

Personally, I would give blood and even my organs if I die to help some one else who needs it.  When you give blood your body replaces and replenishes it so quickly anyway.


----------



## Jewell (Dec 4, 2005)

I think the term "Christians" is being used very loosely here...to denote ANY follower of Christ.  There are many denominations and groups under the helm of Christianity.  I.E. Methodists don't operate the same as Baptists or the same as Pentecostals.  I think that each person should speak for their denomination...not Christianity as a whole.  

I don't follow a certain denomination, and my church isn't under a certain denom (it was formerly Church of God in Christ or C.O.G.I.C. but the pastor came from under that and no longers operates under that denomination) so it is fine IMO to give and receive blood.  I had a blood transfusion earlier this year (and a prior one about 11 years ago) to prevent complications while in the hospital, and last time I checked it wasn't one of the seven deadly sins or a violation of the Ten Commandments.   I just think each person should examine their personal morals and beliefs.


----------



## HoneyDew (Dec 4, 2005)

star said:
			
		

> There is nothing wrong with giving blood. It is a act of kindness and love to give anything that will help others. Ask your friend if they had a sick child that needed their blood to survive would they donate? I hope so.



I was raised as a Jehovah witnesses (I no longer practice it although my mom does) and acts of kindness and love is not how they look at blood.  They believe that they have scriptural reasons to protect and handle blood sacredly.


----------



## Enchantmt (Dec 11, 2005)

I havent researched this, and I cant see drinking blood or even eating rare meat, (If its not well done I dont want it) but I do know that things that were law to us before are not law under the new covenant. Before a woman on her cycle had to seperate herself as she was "unclean" and you couldnt even sit where she had sat because you were also unclean. When the old law was fulfilled many things were no longer required such as dietary requirements, animal sacrifices etc. Althought I respect the beliefs of others I personally think the scriptures that  reference this imply ingesting blood through the mouth as giving blood was not a practice during that time period, but pagan rituals drinking blood were.

 Many surgeons are Christians, Ben Carson comes to mind, and you cant do surgery to save lives with out addtional blood. When it comes to issues like this, issues that the bible doesnt give clear instruction for, you have to pray about it, and act according to how God leads you. I have given blood in the past and my mother had to have over 5 units of blood that I know saved her life this week. I prayed for God to spare my mother, and He has. I dont think He would have done it if it violated His ordinances.


----------



## bellydancer (Dec 11, 2005)

HoneyDew said:
			
		

> I was raised as a Jehovah witnesses (I no longer practice it although my mom does) and acts of kindness and love is not how they look at blood.  They believe that they have scriptural reasons to protect and handle blood sacredly.



My dad and sis are JWs and I am currently studying it and I'm not exactly sure why,but you are not supposed to. I'll have to ask my dad and sis where in the bible it says not to.


----------



## Chinagem (Jan 1, 2006)

IMO, if Jesus can give his life to save others then I don't see why God would have a problem with me giving a little blood here and there to save others.


----------



## PaperClip (Nov 12, 2006)

foxybrownsugar said:
			
		

> *I feel like if God could shed all his blood to save humanity then I can share 1 pint to save a one person.*


 
Yes!!!!! Plus, God's creation of the body is so awesome that doesn't the blood rebuild itself some kind of way? Like when you donate blood, your body doesn't "lose" that blood forever...the body rebuilds to the proper amounts....(I'm asking)


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Nov 12, 2006)

Crystalicequeen123 said:
			
		

> Thank you* Natrlchallenge* for your input. I'm a JW, and I think you stated JW beliefs quite eloquently.
> 
> I'm not going to make a huge post about this since I know that this (and religious subjects in general) can be really touchy. But what I will say is that everyone has a CHOICE. I could be wrong, but I believe that our decision not to give *OR *recieve blood (this isn't just a selfish thing) is a matter of a personal decision. In my kingdom hall at least, we are asked and encouraged to do our own research before we sign any "No blood cards".
> 
> ...


I have a serious problem with this statement.  You cannot compare blood to poision.  Blood is what gives us LIFE.  Poision kills.  What you're alluding to would be something of the nature of drugs like cocaine and heroin.  Not life giving blood.  So I fail to see the relativity of your analogy.





			
				cece22 said:
			
		

> A patient in the hospital may be fed through the mouth, through the nose, or through the veins. When sugar solutions are given intravenously, it is called intravenous feeding. So the hospital?s own terminology recognizes as feeding the process of putting nutrition into one?s system via the veins. Hence the attendant administering the transfusion is feeding the patient blood through the veins, and the patient receiving it is eating it through his veins. After all the artful contrivings and reasonings and quibblings are over, the bald fact remains that a goodly quantity of one creature?s blood has been deliberately taken into the system of another.


Hmmm, I don't agree with this explanation at all, but carry on.  


			
				Chinagem said:
			
		

> IMO, if Jesus can give his life to save others then I don't see why God would have a problem with me giving a little blood here and there to save others.


Yes, I believe this as well.  If you can save another life, why not?  I'd want someone to save me!


----------



## pebbles (Nov 13, 2006)

Enchantmt said:
			
		

> I havent researched this, and I cant see drinking blood or even eating rare meat, (If its not well done I dont want it) but I do know that things that were law to us before are not law under the new covenant. Before a woman on her cycle had to seperate herself as she was "unclean" and you couldnt even sit where she had sat because you were also unclean. When the old law was fulfilled many things were no longer required such as dietary requirements, animal sacrifices etc. Althought I respect the beliefs of others I personally think the scriptures that reference this imply ingesting blood through the mouth as giving blood was not a practice during that time period, but pagan rituals drinking blood were.
> 
> Many surgeons are Christians, Ben Carson comes to mind, and you cant do surgery to save lives with out addtional blood. When it comes to issues like this, issues that the bible doesnt give clear instruction for, you have to pray about it, and act according to how God leads you. I have given blood in the past and my mother had to have over 5 units of blood that I know saved her life this week. I prayed for God to spare my mother, and He has. I dont think He would have done it if it violated His ordinances.


 
Thank-you for that post, Enchantmt. I'm in agreement with you, in general, it is fine to give blood for Christians. JW have their own beliefs, and that's fine. But the majority of Christians have no issues giving blood.


----------



## kbragg (Nov 13, 2006)

Two things:

First, when the Bible talks about eating blood etc, it refers to animals, NOT humans.

Secondly you have to look at the Levitical law and WHY it was written. God is not onl Holy but also has common sense! I just read through the Books Of Moses a few weeks ago and many of the laws were common sense, Think about it, MILLIONS of people in the desert, no running water, no ventilation system etc. For example, if someone had a rash they had to stay outside the community quaranteened for several days. Why? Because disease can spread quickly with millions of people in the desert. If you really want to dig deep into it, read Leviticus and you'll see just how very wise our God is.

We are no longer under the law but under grace.


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Nov 13, 2006)

kbragg said:
			
		

> Two things:
> 
> First, when the Bible talks about eating blood etc, it refers to animals, NOT humans.
> 
> ...


And this correct as well!


----------



## HWAY (Nov 14, 2006)

As Jehovah's Witness, I am a bible student. The bible states at Acts 21:25  "As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication."
Acts 15:28,29:
"For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."(KJV) 
Blood is indeed sacred and it's through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that we have the hope of salvation. This shows how sacred blood is to God. To accept a blood transfusion or donate blood to another is to go against God's law. We love the life we have now. We see a doctor when we are ill and do not refuse any medical treatment other than blood transfusion. God owns our lives and He is the only one to set standards for us. If a Christian does something he knows is wrong and against bible standards, that Christian risks God's wrath.


----------



## PaperClip (Nov 14, 2006)

HWAY said:
			
		

> As Jehovah's Witness, I am a bible student. The bible states at Acts 21:25 "As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication."
> Acts 15:28,29:
> "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
> That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."(KJV)
> Blood is indeed sacred and it's through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that we have the hope of salvation. This shows how sacred blood is to God. To accept a blood transfusion or donate blood to another is to go against God's law. We love the life we have now. We see a doctor when we are ill and do not refuse any medical treatment other than blood transfusion. God owns our lives and He is the only one to set standards for us. If a Christian does something he knows is wrong and against bible standards, that Christian risks God's wrath.


 
In respect of your viewpoint, may I ask a question?

According to what you have said here, how do you reconcile Acts 11:9:
1And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

2And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him, 


3Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them. 

4But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying, 

5I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A 
certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: 

6Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 

7And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. 

8But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.  
*9But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common."*

Is it that you're saying that since Peter was Jewish that he should not be involved with anything involving Gentiles, including their eating habits? Although God responds with verse 9....

Secondly, as I think it has been referred to earlier in this post about the actual tasting, or consumption of blood.... but in the case of a transfusion, the blood is not being tasted or consumed orally (by mouth), so how does Acts 21:25 make this distinction?

So I looked up the Greek terminology for the use of the word "blood" in this scripture: haima {hah'-ee-mah}


*1) blood*
*    a)* of man or animals 
*    b)* refers to the seat of life 
*    c)* of those things that resemble blood, grape juice *2)* blood shed, to be shed by violence, slay, murder


----------



## HWAY (Nov 14, 2006)

Peter was raised as a Jew and was taught the Law. Lev 11:3 instructs the Jews to only eat creatures that split the hoof and forms a cleft in the hoof and chews the cud. Lev 11:9 instructs the Jews to eat everything that has fins and scales in the water. No where in the bible does it state it is lawful for a servant of God to ingest blood. In Acts 11:9, "...What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." That refers to Peter receiving the third key.(Acts 10:9-48) Jesus' followers were to start preaching to Gentiles. This is not to say it was now okay to eat blood. Please read Acts chapter 15:13-9,  and Acts:21:20-25.  These are the scriptures I obey when I take my stand on ingesting blood.

In regards to transfusions, when a person is too ill to take in food orally (vomiting, cancer or other digestive illnessess), doctors may order liquid food to be ingested through a vein. This way a person is able to take in nutrients.

If I refuse to eat or drink blood, why would I take it into my body by some other route? I have to answer to my conscdience and my vow to obey God in all things as well as allowing the bible to be the final authority when making decisions in my life.


----------



## PaperClip (Nov 14, 2006)

HWAY said:
			
		

> Peter was raised as a Jew and was taught the Law. Lev 11:3 instructs the Jews to only eat creatures that split the hoof and forms a cleft in the hoof and chews the cud. Lev 11:9 instructs the Jews to eat everything that has fins and scales in the water. No where in the bible does it state it is lawful for a servant of God to ingest blood. In Acts 11:9, "...What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." That refers to Peter receiving the third key.(Acts 10:9-48) Jesus' followers were to start preaching to Gentiles. This is not to say it was now okay to eat blood. Please read Acts chapter 15:13-9, and Acts:21:20-25. These are the scriptures I obey when I take my stand on ingesting blood.
> 
> In regards to transfusions, when a person is too ill to take in food orally (vomiting, cancer or other digestive illnessess), doctors may order liquid food to be ingested through a vein. This way a person is able to take in nutrients.
> 
> If I refuse to eat or drink blood, why would I take it into my body by some other route? I have to answer to my conscdience and my vow to obey God in all things as well as allowing the bible to be the final authority when making decisions in my life.


 
Thanks for responding....

I'm not sure what you mean by "third key".


----------



## HWAY (Nov 16, 2006)

I apologize for taking so long to respond.

The key refers to Matt 16:19. Jesus told Peter he would have the keys of the kingdom. Peter used those "keys" to instruct people about the kingdom of the heavens. The good news of God's kingdom was to be preached to fellow Jews, Samaritans and Gentiles. Until this time period, Jews were not to associate closely with felow believers. Acts 11:9 is the scripture you quoted referring to the vision telling Peter not call unclean what God cleansed.


----------



## live2bgr8 (Nov 16, 2006)

wyldcurlz said:
			
		

> *Of course Christians can (and should) give blood! It is sacred from God and that is why he gave us, healthy people such a generous supply of it, so that we can help those in need.* It is one of the best gifts we can give another. I'd encourage you to donate blood and marrow. The black community especially needs to hear this. When it comes to certain issues like bone marrow - another person of your ethnicity is most likely to have a marrow match - we need more black donors of blood and (if possible) marrow!
> 
> I'll step down from my soapbox now.


 
Yep!     ITA-- Besides, Jesus shed His blood for us so that we might have eternal life.


----------



## alexstin (Nov 16, 2006)

Yes, Christians can give blood.

I did a little reading on this, here's a snippet:

When referring to not eating blood, according to Lev 17:11 the blood was to be used as an atonement for the sins of Israel which obviously is a precursor to the sacrifice of Jesus.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong. All the scriptures about not eating blood refer to animals not humans. Humans aren't sacrificing their life when they give blood as these animals did.

Blood received through the veins is not food so I'm not sure how one comes to the conclusion that eating blood and receiving blood are one and the same. One goes into the circulatory sytem and one goes into the digestive system.


----------



## kbragg (Nov 16, 2006)

alexstin said:
			
		

> One goes into the circulatory sytem and one goes into the digestive system.


 
Exactly. Excellent point. 


.


----------



## HWAY (Nov 16, 2006)

Anything that goes into one's veien is going directly into the circulatory system. The digestive system is an entirely different system.


----------



## alexstin (Nov 16, 2006)

HWAY said:
			
		

> Anything that goes into one's veien is going directly into the circulatory system. The digestive system is an entirely different system.



Right, that's what I said upthread. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.


----------



## Valerie (Jun 6, 2007)

You need to ask the Jehovah Witness, what part of the bible is says you cannot give blood.  They need to quote and show you the scripture.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Jun 6, 2007)

alexstin said:
			
		

> Yes, Christians can give blood.
> 
> I did a little reading on this, here's a snippet:
> 
> ...


 
You are correct!


----------



## Mocha5 (Jun 6, 2007)

alexstin said:
			
		

> Yes, Christians can give blood.
> 
> I did a little reading on this, here's a snippet:
> 
> ...


 
ITA  The only sacred blood that exists is the blood that Jesus shed for us on the cross and it cleanses all.


----------



## cocoberry10 (Jun 14, 2007)

It's okay to give blood and very Christian!   I would if I weighed enough


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Jun 8, 2008)

Valerie said:


> You need to ask the Jehovah Witness, what part of the bible is says you cannot give blood.  They need to quote and show you the scripture.



I'll do it for you all now to save time. 
Here's one scripture:
“The holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper.”—Acts 15:28, 29

The Bible record shows that early in mankind’s history the Creator and Life-Giver expressed himself on the issue of blood. Right after the global flood, when God first granted humans the right to eat animal flesh, he commanded Noah and his family: “Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat.”—Genesis 9:3, 4.


Rather than deciding solely on the basis of personal preference or some medical recommendation, each Christian ought to consider seriously what the Bible says. It is a matter between him and Jehovah.

Jehovah, to whom we owe our lives, decreed that blood should not be consumed. (Genesis 9:3, 4) In the Law for ancient Israel, God limited the use of blood because it represents life. He decreed: “The soul [or life] of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have put it upon the altar for you to make atonement for your souls.” What if a man killed an animal for food? God said: “He must in that case pour its blood out and cover it with dust.” (Leviticus 17:11, 13) Jehovah repeated this command again and again. (Deuteronomy 12:16, 24; 15:23) The Jewish Soncino Chumash notes: “The blood must not be stored but rendered unfit for consumption by pouring it on the ground.” No Israelite was to appropriate, store, and use the blood of another creature, whose life belonged to God.

The obligation to keep the Mosaic Law ended when the Messiah died. Yet, God’s view of the sacredness of blood remains. Moved by God’s holy spirit, the apostles directed Christians to ‘abstain from blood.’ That command was not to be taken lightly. It was as important morally as abstaining from sexual immorality or idolatry. (Acts 15:28, 29; 21:25) When donating and transfusing blood became common in the 20th century, Jehovah’s Witnesses understood that this practice conflicted with God’s Word.

Occasionally, a doctor will urge a patient to deposit his own blood weeks before surgery (preoperative autologous blood donation, or PAD) so that if the need arises, he could transfuse the patient with his own stored blood. However, such collecting, storing, and transfusing of blood directly contradicts what is said in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Blood is not to be stored; it is to be poured out—returned to God, as it were. Granted, the Mosaic Law is not in force now. Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the principles God included in it, and they are determined to ‘abstain from blood.’ Hence, we do not donate blood, nor do we store for transfusion our blood that should be ‘poured out.’ That practice conflicts with God’s law.

Other procedures or tests involving an individual’s own blood are not so clearly in conflict with God’s stated principles. For instance, many Christians have allowed some of their blood to be withdrawn for testing or analysis, after which the sample is discarded. Other more complex procedures involving one’s blood may also be recommended.

For example, during certain surgical procedures, some blood may be diverted from the body in a process called hemodilution. The blood remaining in the patient is diluted. Later, his blood in the external circuit is directed back into him, thus bringing his blood count closer to normal. Similarly, blood that flows into a wound may be captured and filtered so that the red cells can be returned to the patient; this is called cell salvage. In a different process, blood may be directed to a machine that temporarily carries on a function normally handled by body organs (for example, the heart, lungs, or kidneys). The blood from the machine is then returned to the patient. In other procedures, blood is diverted to a separator (centrifuge) so that damaging or defective portions of it can be eliminated. Or the goal may be to isolate some of a blood component and apply that elsewhere on the body. There are also tests in which a quantity of blood is withdrawn in order to tag it or to mix it with medicine, whereupon it is put back into the patient.

The details may vary, and new procedures, treatments, and tests will certainly be developed. It is not our place to analyze each variation and render a decision. A Christian must decide for himself how his own blood will be handled in the course of a surgical procedure, medical test, or current therapy. Ahead of time, he should obtain from the doctor or technician the facts about what might be done with his blood during the procedure. Then he must decide according to what his conscience permits. 

Christians should bear in mind their dedication to God and obligation ‘to love him with their whole heart, whole soul, whole strength, and whole mind.’ (Luke 10:27) Unlike most in the world, Jehovah’s Witnesses highly treasure their good relationship with God. The Life-Giver urges all to trust in Jesus’ shed blood. We read: “By means of him [Jesus Christ] we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses.”—Ephesians 1:7.


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Jun 8, 2008)

So as a christian I live by the admonition of ACTS 5:29"We must obey God as ruler rather than men." Rather than making this decision based on my personal opinions or that of others i look to the bible itself. God is the only one with the right to take away my life and he is the only one with the power to give it back so even in simple things, I try my best to keep his requirements. Sorry so long, but I honestly want you all to see from the bible how such a choice may affect your relationship with God. It's up to each of us individually to decide, but at least you'll be well informed from the scriptures.


----------



## discobiscuits (Jun 8, 2008)

Wow, MzNeekie, you've enlightened me on some things that JWs believe. I have a question. According to your post, you said blood is not for consumption. How is a transfusion, or a transfer, of blood from one person to another or from yourself to yourself the same as consumption? I am understanding consumption (the dictionary and biblical definitions) to mean eat, digest, use for nourishment. Transfusions are not for eating they are for replenishing something that was lost.

Another question. Does that JW belief extend to bone marrow transplants since the blood is manufactured there?

I am being genuine in my questions as I seek to understand why JWs believe that but I am not a JW and I do not believe that nor do I agree with it. I am intrigued though and I am a perpetual learner. My BFF is also a JW so I'm gonna confer w/ her later next week on this as we have never discussed this before. Boy, THAT will be a fun LOL discussion.


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Jun 8, 2008)

Think of it this way, in a hospital, when a patient cannot eat through his mouth, he is fed intravenously. Now, would a person who never put blood into his mouth but who accepted blood by transfusion really be obeying the command to “keep abstaining from . . . blood”? (Acts 15:29) To use a comparison, consider a man who is told by the doctor that he must abstain from alcohol. Would he be obedient if he quit drinking alcohol but had it put directly into his veins?

As for the part about bone marrow, that would mostly be a personal decision. The bible stands as a guide for how we choose to live our lives. Using the bible and scriptures such as the ones I mentioned in my previous post will help a Christian to make an informed decision. It would be up to you as an individual, but your decision would be totally based on the bible, hope this answers your questions. 

Additionally, there are many other options besides blood transfusions that can be used successfully many times even more safely than a transfusion. Consider this information, Jehovah’s Witnesses actually benefit from better medical treatment because they do not accept blood. A doctor writing in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology (June 1, 1968, p. 395) acknowledged: “There is no doubt that the situation where you [the surgeon] are operating without the possibility of transfusion tends to improve your surgery. You are a little bit more aggressive in clamping every bleeding vessel.”

All types of surgery can be performed successfully without blood transfusions. This includes open-heart operations, brain surgery, amputation of limbs, and total removal of cancerous organs. Writing in the New York State Journal of Medicine (October 15, 1972, p. 2527), Dr. Philip Roen said: “We have not hesitated to perform any and all indicated surgical procedures in the face of proscribed blood replacement.” Dr. Denton Cooley, at the Texas Heart Institute, said: “We became so impressed with the results [from using nonblood plasma expanders] on the Jehovah’s Witnesses that we started using the procedure on all our heart patients.” (The San Diego Union, December 27, 1970, p. A-10) “‘Bloodless’ open-heart surgery, originally developed for adult members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses sect because their religion forbids blood transfusions, now has been safely adapted for use in delicate cardiac procedures in infants and children.”—Cardiovascular News, February 1984, p. 5.

And too think about the dangers of infectious diseases that exist with transfusions. And some people accept the transfusion ans STILL die. We are safeguarded from all of that by simply being obedient. 
So it's not like we are just hopeless because we refuse to accept transfusions. We value life to the fullest, we simply put God's will above all else and would rather achieve something with his approval rather than without it. If we were to lose our lives, because we were obedient until death we will remain in God's memory and have the hope of a resurrection. 
Acts 24:15, John 5:28-29, Revelation 21:3-4


----------



## Evolving78 (Jun 8, 2008)

good2uuuu said:


> I'm not clear here. How does donating blood or being infused with blood equate with eating blood? People aren't out there 'using' blood all willy nilly. It goes directly into the veins, not in the mouth.  I'm, not being crass here, but I just find this point quite confusing. That's all.



well i used to study with jws and they have their own translation of the bible and are not suppose to read others.

kjv acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

these to me means not to eat i'm confused as well?


----------



## Evolving78 (Jun 8, 2008)

i guess i understand now.  like if you were not able to drink from your mouth, but given blood in an iv then it  would still be considered consumed.  but reading scripture it sounds like we shouldn't take the blood that was sacrificed to idols or anything sin related.


----------



## HWAY (Jun 8, 2008)

http://www.ajwrb.org/6-15-04.shtml

The teaching regarding blood transfusion is complicated.  Whole blood, red blood cells, white blood cells, plasma and pletelets are prohibited.  
Red cell fractions,white cell fractions, plasma fractions, and platelet fractions are allowed.   Most JWs are older and undereducated and don't undertand the meaning of the changes since for years they've been taught that blood transfusions are wrong in the sight of God.  

Saying it is okay to allow transfusion of the different blood fractions, but not whole blood is like saying it is ok to eat eggs, flour, sugar, milk and salt but wrong to eat a cake.

Each JW has to thoroughly examine the blood transfusion teaching for oneself, not just obey because the organization says so.


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Jun 8, 2008)

shortdub78 said:


> well i used to study with jws and they have their own translation of the bible and are not suppose to read others.
> 
> kjv acts 15:29
> That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
> ...



People love to say that, but have you ever actually compared say the KJ version to the New World Translation? There are Witnesses that quote from both and have read both. I myself have sat down and went to random scriptures and compared what each said and found it to be the same only the NWT is written in the English we use today. None of speak using thou etc. Instead of just believing hearsay, find out for yourself love. No harm in that.


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Jun 8, 2008)

HWAY said:


> http://www.ajwrb.org/6-15-04.shtml
> 
> The teaching regarding blood transfusion is complicated.  Whole blood, red blood cells, white blood cells, plasma and pletelets are prohibited.
> Red cell fractions,white cell fractions, plasma fractions, and platelet fractions are allowed.   Most JWs are older and undereducated and don't undertand the meaning of the changes since for years they've been taught that blood transfusions are wrong in the sight of God.
> ...




We had an article about this and we studied it as a congregation. Actually we are encouraged to make the decision of whether or not to accept fractions etc a matter of prayer and personal decision. You are supposed to allow your bible trained conscious to aid you in your decision. It was not said OH fractions or ok so everybody use that. Contrary to popular belief every aspect of our lives is not dictated by the organization. Many times you are to make your own decision, as long as it's guided by the bible of course. That's quite presumptuous of you to say that most older Witnesses are undereducated..as I stated we studied this matter together for the benefit of everyone. Did you read any of my reply to Jen? If so, you'd have seen that there are many benefits of bloodless surgery and so forth, even doctors themselves have praised it and like to use it on non Witness patients because of the safety and success it has shown.


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Jun 8, 2008)

shortdub78 said:


> i guess i understand now.  like if you were not able to drink from your mouth, but given blood in an iv then it  would still be considered consumed.  but reading scripture it sounds like we shouldn't take the blood that was sacrificed to idols or anything sin related.



That's true, but that is only one of the scriptures about not consuming blood. What about the others?


----------



## HWAY (Jun 8, 2008)

I read your reply.  I know many JWs and am well acquainted with the teachings of the WTS.  Many older JWs are undereducated and believe every teaching of the WTS.  

I understand the info was studied by the congregations, but I as a nurse wonder if the witnesses fully understand the matter for themselves, not what's being taught by others.


----------



## discobiscuits (Jun 8, 2008)

MzNeekie said:


> Think of it this way, *in a hospital, when a patient cannot eat through his mouth, he is fed intravenously. Now, would a person who never put blood into his mouth but who accepted blood by transfusion really be obeying the command to “keep abstaining from . . . blood”? (Acts 15:29) *



wrt the red Yes. that person would be obeying the command to abstain from blood. the transfer of blood into the veins is not the same literally, figuratively, functionally, or any other manner as ingesting blood. 

blood into the veins does not get digested or excreted as waste.

ingested blood goes through the body's digestive system and excreted. that is the process of consumption: take-use-discard

a transfusion stays in the system. it is not used for nourishment.

additionally, when hospitals feed intravenously, it is for nourishment and it is liquid comprised of nutrients, sugars/carbs, etc that the body needs. it gets processed in the digestive system delivered by the blood and excreted. so IV for food is not even close to a blood transfusion. 

IV for food is repeated. a BT is (if it works) one time only (i am excepting for diseases that may require mult BTs like hemophilia or sickle cell). 

transfused blood never goes into the digestive system and is never excreted and never used for nourishment. it may deliver nutrients but it in and of itself is not the nutrient.

blood transfusions are not against any command (OT or NT) from jehovah since it is not for consumption.

What about dialisys for kidney diseases? is that against the command too?


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Jun 9, 2008)

jenniferohjenny said:


> wrt the red Yes. that person would be obeying the command to abstain from blood. the transfer of blood into the veins is not the same literally, figuratively, functionally, or any other manner as ingesting blood.
> 
> blood into the veins does not get digested or excreted as waste.
> 
> ...



I answered your questions scripturally and using illustrations, I even supported bloodless surgery with quotes from medical professionals not affiliated with JW  and listed several of the benefits of not using transfusions. There's nothing more I can do. It's your right not to accept it. I have no problem with that. To my knowledge dialysis is not unscriptural.


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Jun 9, 2008)

HWAY said:


> I read your reply.  I know many JWs and am well acquainted with the teachings of the WTS.  Many older JWs are undereducated and believe every teaching of the WTS.
> 
> I understand the info was studied by the congregations, but I as a nurse wonder if the witnesses fully understand the matter for themselves, not what's being taught by others.




What you are saying is completely false. I don't understand how you can honestly keep saying it. You are speaking about an organization made up of nearly 7 million people earthwide and you really think most of them that are older aren't intelligent enough to understand this matter? The only teachings we study are those of Jesus Christ and his father Jehovah. Information about current events and issues regarding this present time we live in are dispensed by the faithful and discreet slave for our benefit under Jehovah's direction and guidance. You cannot possibly know all 6 million Witnesses or even a fraction of that. Maybe SOME don't fully understand, we are human beings. As true of any large group of people, individuals range from different ages, ethnic backgrounds, upbringing and so forth. None of us is so great that we know it all, that's why we trust in God to guide us in the first place. As a whole the organization is united serving the same purpose around the globe. There are things I know now I had no clue about 5 years ago, with time and effort we all are becoming better educated about alot of things. I at least hope we can agree on that.


----------



## discobiscuits (Jun 9, 2008)

MzNeekie said:


> *I answered your questions scripturally and using illustrations,* I even supported bloodless surgery with quotes from medical professionals not affiliated with JW  and listed several of the benefits of not using transfusions. There's nothing more I can do. It's your right not to accept it. I have no problem with that. To my knowledge dialysis is not unscriptural.


True, you did do that however, the scripture references were used out of context and used incorrectly, imo.




MzNeekie said:


> He decreed: *“The soul [or life] of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have put it upon the altar for you to make atonement for your souls.”* What if a man killed an animal for food? God said: “He must in that case pour its blood out and cover it with dust.” (Leviticus 17:11, 13) Jehovah repeated this command again and again. (Deuteronomy 12:16, 24; 15:23) The Jewish Soncino Chumash notes: *“The blood must not be stored but rendered unfit for consumption by pouring it on the ground.” No Israelite was to appropriate, store, and use the blood of another creature,* whose life belonged to God.


Blue: this is speaking of jesus christ's blood

Purple: this is speaking of animals, not humans. 

But I do thank you for your help. I really do/did want to get a glimpse into the thought process of others on why they believe transfusions are not scriptural. I agree w/ you, I do not believe as you do as I do not agree that the scriptures you used to illustrate your point support your point.


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Jun 9, 2008)

I certainly did not expect you to, but I honor my heavenly father by speaking the truth to you anyway. I'm glad we can have a sincere and mature discussion about this.


----------



## Farida (Jun 28, 2008)

i don't remember where in the NT, but it says, it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, but what comes out of him.


----------



## NGraceO (Jun 30, 2008)

foxybrownsugar said:


> *I feel like if God could shed all his blood to save humanity then I can share 1 pint to save a one person.*


 
AMEN!!!! ITA!!


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Aug 9, 2008)

God did not shed his blood. Jesus shed his blood...and no one partook of it of course. Jesus is not God..he is the son of God. I digress.. I'ma leave it alone.


----------



## divya (Nov 18, 2008)

I believe that Christians can give blood. 



MzNeekie said:


> God did not shed his blood. Jesus shed his blood...and no one partook of it of course. Jesus is not God..he is the son of God. I digress.. I'ma leave it alone.



The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are God. God is One in purpose. All 3 in One.

Genesis 1:26 (King James Version)
 26 *And God said*, Let *us* make man in our image, after *our* likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


----------



## Crown (Nov 20, 2008)

MzNeekie said:


> God did not shed his blood. Jesus shed his blood...and no one partook of it of course. *Jesus is not God*..he is the son of God. I digress.. I'ma leave it alone.



Hum!?!...
 Isaiah 9:5   For unto us a child is born, unto us *a son is given* and the government shall be upon his shoulder *and his name shall be called* Wonderful, Counsellor, *The mighty God,* *The everlasting Father,* The Prince of Peace. (KJV)
John 1:1-2   In the beginninghttp://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#n1 was the Word, and the Word was with God, and *the Word was fully God*. (KJV)
May God bless you in the name of Jesus-Christ!


----------



## divya (Nov 20, 2008)

Crown said:


> Hum!?!...
> Isaiah 9:5   For unto us a child is born, unto us *a son is given* and the government shall be upon his shoulder *and his name shall be called* Wonderful, Counsellor, *The mighty God,* *The everlasting Father,* The Prince of Peace. (KJV)
> John 1:1-2   In the beginninghttp://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#n1 was the Word, and the Word was with God, and *the Word was fully God*. (KJV)
> May God bless you in the name of Jesus-Christ!




Such a beautiful verse. Here it is in song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWn7HHI-rhE


----------



## Liberianmami26 (Nov 21, 2008)

i had this in my religion class at school the only religious group besides jehovah witness i think are gypsys everyone else can give blood i did even though i was terrified of needles it was hilarious


----------



## Afrobuttafly (Sep 6, 2009)

Crown said:


> Hum!?!...
> Isaiah 9:5   For unto us a child is born, unto us *a son is given* and the government shall be upon his shoulder *and his name shall be called* Wonderful, Counsellor, *The mighty God,* *The everlasting Father,* The Prince of Peace. (KJV)
> John 1:1-2   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and *the Word was fully God*. (KJV)
> May God bless you in the name of Jesus-Christ!



Precisely. "The mighty God" NOT the *Almighty*. Find a place in the Bible where is refers to Jesus as the "Almighty".  It never does..because that title applies only to THE MOST HIGH (Psalms 83:18) 

They are 2 very similar but separate beings. One being higher than the other. If not then how do you explain scriptures such as:

 John 14:28- "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, go unto the Father: *for my Father is greater than I*." (KJV)

Jesus himself puts the father higher than him and NOT equal to him. 

John 10:36- "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said *I am the Son of God*?" (KJV) 

Jesus said he was God's Son out of his own mouth.

Matt 24:36- "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven,* but my Father only*." (KJV) 

If they were the same person how could 1 know the day and hour but not the other?

John 8:27-29- "They understood not that *he spake to them of the Father*. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and *that I do nothing of myself, but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me; the Father hath no left me alone; for I do always those things that please him." *(KJV)

Jesus here credits not himself but his Father for the things he does. If they were the same person he would not say that. He would be doing his own will not just that of he that sent him. But according to Christ he does the will of his Father. 

2Corinthians 1:3- "Blessed be *God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ*, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort." (KJV)

This scripture said that Jesus' Father is God. So Jesus has a Father, which makes him the Son. 

1Corinthians 11:3- " But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; *and the head of Christ is God.*" (KJV)

So this scripture outlines each of our roles and the order of highness.  Christ is higher than (head of) man, The man is higher than (head of) the woman and then God is higher than (head of) Christ. They cannot be both equal to one another and have one higher than the other. The Bible makes a clear connection but still, distinction between Jehovah (YHWH) who is the most high God and Jesus who is his Son. 

Jesus was created, "the firstborn of every creature" Colossians 1:15 (KJV)
Jehovah his Father was not. He has no beginning and no end. There is no one higher or greater than he is. But as I mentioned earlier, Jesus himself said "my Father is greater than I". Because they spent/spend so much time together, they love one another and they worked together to make all visible and invisible creation they are naturally very much alike. Just like a human father and son who are close would be. But they are perfect and free from sin unlike humans. 

I want to really examine these scriptures, meditate on them and pray for God's guidance on the matter. Not for me, but for you and to God's glory. It's not about being right or wrong, I just want you to use your power of reason and freedom of thought to at least consider them. 

May Jehovah bless you in the name of his Son Jesus Christ.


----------



## Crown (Sep 8, 2009)

Afrobuttafly said:


> Precisely. "The mighty God" NOT the Almighty. Find a place in the Bible where is refers to Jesus as the "Almighty".  It never does..because that title applies only to THE MOST HIGH (Psalms 83:18)
> 
> They are 2 very similar but separate beings. One being higher than the other. If not then how do you explain scriptures such as:
> 
> ...



Thank you and I suggest you to do the same. I like this verse and I would like to share it with you  and all my beautiful sisters:
Acts 17.11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

We understand differently, but the Bible is the Truth. Can we agree?

God is ONE, He is Father, He is Spirit, and Son.
The Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit is the same God, the Spirit of God in action, not another one.
Jesus was completely and totally obedient to God! (actually, I am not, I sin). He is :
Col. 1.15 *Who is the image of the invisible God*, the firstborn of every creature: 1.16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: *all things were created by him, and for him*: 1.17 And *he is before all things, and by him all things consist*. 1.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 1.19 *For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell*;

God is Spirit, I don’t believe in a God in 3 persons, but God can be identified as the Father, the Holy Spirit and the Son; He is the same God. I don't believe that Jesus, as human, had an existence before his human birth. But, the human person of God is Jesus, the Word : a human body for the Word.
Mat. 1.23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, *God with us*.

I don’t believe in a little god named Jesus and I am not _Jesus only_ neither.
Jesus is the Son of God, meaning God, the Father, dwelling in a human body and revealing Himself to us. And this is why Isa. called Him the everlasting Father : 
Isa.9.6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, *The everlasting Father*, The Prince of Peace. 
And John 1.1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and *the Word was God*. 1.14 And *the Word was made flesh*, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This is why Jesus said : John 10.30 *I and my Father are one*.

Col. 2.8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 2.9 *For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily*.

[FONT=&quot]Sorry, I can’t explain it better and it's not the subject of the thread.
(I have an headache now, too much English for me!)

God bless you in the Name of Jesus-Christ!
[/FONT]


----------



## Poohbear (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm not sure if it's right or wrong for Christians to give blood. I am a Christian, and I do not want to give away blood when I'm alive or my organs when I'm dead.  And that has nothing to do with my beliefs. It's just my own personal preference with my body.


----------



## discobiscuits (Sep 8, 2009)

> John 10.30 *I and my Father are one*.



this means "one" (two separate individuals who are in agreement) in purpose not "one" in body. each is a separate individual in the trinity.


----------

