# Confused- Pro-life or Pro-choice



## Bublnbrnsuga (Mar 11, 2005)

I have been battling with this for a while now. I have considered myself Pro-life,but I am learning that I can't force my beliefs on someone else. Also with some pro-lifers, they are for abortions if there has been an incidence of rape or incest-I don't agree with this. Being pro-choice doesn't mean you actually support abortion, right? I mean, if I decided to be pro-choice and someone I know decides to have an abortion, I would not be supportive in their decision and I would not be there during the process. I know the Bible discusses that 'He knew us before we were in our mother's womb,' but how can I tell some other woman what to do with her body and child? Can someone help here?


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## Chivara (Mar 11, 2005)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> I have been battling with this for a while now. I have considered myself Pro-life,but I am learning that I can't force my beliefs on someone else. Also with some pro-lifers, they are for abortions if there has been an incidence of rape or incest-I don't agree with this. Being pro-choice doesn't mean you actually support abortion, right? I mean, if I decided to be pro-choice and someone I know decides to have an abortion, I would not be supportive in their decision and I would not be there during the process.



I can't really answer your question based on what the bible says b/c I don't know, but in my opinion, pro-choice does not mean that you actually support abortion.  To me it simply means that you support women having a "choice" to decide what it is they are going to do with their bodies.  I don't think anyone who is pro-choice necessarily thinks having an abortion is "right" per say, but they believe that people should have control over their own bodies and dealing with whatever consequences they may face.

I guess it's all up to your own interpretation.


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## toinette (Mar 11, 2005)

Chivara said:
			
		

> I can't really answer your question based on what the bible says b/c I don't know, but in my opinion, pro-choice does not mean that you actually support abortion.  To me it simply means that you support women having a "choice" to decide what it is they are going to do with their bodies.  I don't think anyone who is pro-choice necessarily thinks having an abortion is "right" per say, but they believe that people should have control over their own bodies and dealing with whatever consequences they may face.
> 
> I guess it's all up to your own interpretation.




i am pro-choice and that is exactly how i see it. i also consider myself a christian and do not see the two views conflicting. God himself did not force belief on Man; we were imbued with free will. So i also do not feel it is correct for anyone to tell another person what to do with their body, and i fel it is especially wrong to make it a matter of policy and law. making laws aginst abortion is especially useless: look at the prohibition period. That didnt work against alcohol. and even before when abortion was illegal, people still did them except that they were using far more dangerous methods that left a lot of women dead, with infections, and/or barren for life.


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2005)

Even though the Bible does not straight out say "Thou shall not commit abortion"... I feel like this... In order to kill someone, they have to be alive first.  The Bible does say we should not kill/murder.  That baby that's inside that pregnant mother is living.  Using an instrument to abort it's life is killing in my opinion.  Even though God did not force belief on man, that doesn't mean He left His Word with us to be ignored and do whatever we want to do.


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2005)

Chivara said:
			
		

> I can't really answer your question based on what the bible says b/c I don't know, but in my opinion, pro-choice does not mean that you actually support abortion. To me it simply means that you support women having a "choice" to decide what it is they are going to do with their bodies. I don't think anyone who is pro-choice necessarily thinks having an abortion is "right" per say, but they believe that people should have control over their own bodies and dealing with whatever consequences they may face.
> 
> I guess it's all up to your own interpretation.


Yeah, this is true too because the issue of abortion isn't always seen from a moral standpoint.


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 11, 2005)

I don't force anything on anyone but my political beliefs are intertwined with my religious beliefs and for me to even think it's okay for murdering an innocent baby to be an "option" is in conflict with my heart and mind. But with that said this world is going to get a lot worse before He comes so I do brace myself for things to come full circle back to the days of Noah. 

For example back in biblical days a father could stand before his wife after the baby was born and when the midwife showed him the baby he could choose to accept it or not. If he saw fault with the baby such as deformity or even abnormally low weight he could decide not to keep the child. The baby would then be sold usually to someone who would use them for labor and sell them as sex slaves.  I see today we have these baby drop off sites where you can abandon your baby with NO NAME, NO SHAME. Which I think is wrong but there is still some redeeming quality in knowing that there is shame in abandoning a child in the first place. Back then there was no shame. We seem to be moving closer to the days of Noah. Which is when the bible says God will come back.


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## model_chick717 (Mar 11, 2005)

*I'm a Christian and I am pro-CHOICE.....*


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## Tai (Mar 11, 2005)

I am another pro-choice Christian.  I don't feel that I have the right to tell anyone else what to do with their bodies.  The choices they make are between them and God.


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## toinette (Mar 11, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I see today we have these baby drop off sites where you can abandon your baby with NO NAME, NO SHAME. Which I think is wrong but there is still some redeeming quality in knowing that there is shame in abandoning a child in the first place.



ann i see your point but look at it this way. the baby drop-offs are specifically intended for people who owuld otherwise throw their baby in the trash, sewer, toilet, murder the child, or straight up abandon them in the street. i definitely understand why baby drop-offs dont sit well with a lot of people but i think the alternative is endlessly more tragic.


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## toinette (Mar 11, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Even though God did not force belief on man, that doesn't mean He left His Word with us to be ignored and do whatever we want to do.



i definitely hear where you'e comign from pooh, but i see it like this. if God him/herself does not see fit to impose his will on you, what man has that right? i hope that makes sense


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2005)

toinette said:
			
		

> i definitely hear where you'e comign from pooh, but i see it like this. if God him/herself does not see fit to impose his will on you, *what man has that right?* i hope that makes sense


the right to do what? lil confused about what u mean...


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2005)

Tai said:
			
		

> I am another pro-choice Christian. *I don't feel that I have the right to tell anyone else what to do with their bodies.* The choices they make are between them and God.


I'm Pro-life and I agree with you that no one should have a say in the choice you make either. Not all people that are Pro-life are going around telling everyone what they should do with their bodies.


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## model_chick717 (Mar 11, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> the right to do what? lil confused about what u mean...


 
*The right to impose their beliefs on another....that's what she meant...*


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 11, 2005)

imposing my beliefs on others and me following God gets arguments like these into a sticky place for me. I'm a voter and I vote according to my beliefs. And I don't vote to condone and allow what I think God would not have me be in favor of.

I totally understand about the baby drop offs but it just irks me that they are really pushing it as something you shouldn't be ashamed of. Just irks me that's all. And it seems like it's the world answer to us not wanting to take responsibilities for our actions and that just seems to breed more irresponsibility in society. Yes, some who are already irresponsible are going to be that way but it's now legalized and supported and their telling us we shouldn't even feel bad about it.


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2005)

model_chick717 said:
			
		

> *The right to impose their beliefs on another....that's what she meant...*


*Ohhh Okayyy.  When I made that statement, I was not saying man should have a right to impose their beliefs on others. I certainly don't believe that.   *


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## toinette (Mar 11, 2005)

model_chick717 said:
			
		

> *The right to impose their beliefs on another....that's what she meant...*



thats exactly what i meant...thanx hun!


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## TJD3 (Mar 11, 2005)

I am pro-life. I think once a woman becomes pregnant, it is no longer just her body. I think that child should have a right to life as well. Like someone said earlier, in laments terms, it is murder. The laws are written so that the murder of a child is ok, because the medical community says it is just "cells" or if the baby is still within the womb than it is still "not alive"erplexed  . Kickin sucking thumbs and all (ie. partial birth abortion), claiming that they do not feel pain to me is absurd  .

I wont go tell a person that they are wrong for getting an abortion, however, when it comes time to vote yay oon nay, Im voting nay, because the child should have a right to their life too. To me, it is another form of mass killings, but just legal.


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2005)

toinette said:
			
		

> thats exactly what i meant...thanx hun!


*When I made that statement, I was not saying man should have a right to impose their beliefs on others. I certainly don't believe that. *


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## toinette (Mar 11, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> *When I made that statement, I was not saying man should have a right to impose their beliefs on others. I certainly don't believe that. *



i understood that pooh  no worries.


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## Tai (Mar 11, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> I'm Pro-life and I agree with you that no one should have a say in the choice you make either. Not all people that are Pro-life are going around telling everyone what they should do with their bodies.


 
I didn't say that *all* pro-life people are going around telling everyone what they should do with their bodies.


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## Chichi (Mar 12, 2005)

TJD3 said:
			
		

> I am pro-life. I think once a woman becomes pregnant, it is no longer just her body. I think that child should have a right to life as well. Like someone said earlier, in laments terms, it is murder. The laws are written so that the murder of a child is ok, because the medical community says it is just "cells" or if the baby is still within the womb than it is still "not alive"erplexed . Kickin sucking thumbs and all (ie. partial birth abortion), claiming that they do not feel pain to me is absurd  .
> 
> I wont go tell a person that they are wrong for getting an abortion, however, when it comes time to vote yay oon nay, Im voting nay, because the child should have a right to their life too. To me, it is another form of mass killings, but just legal.


 ITA. The pope calls the culture we live now a "culture of death." We should not be surprised that senseless killings are occurring daily in our socities for if we permit the killing of innocents at the most basic level then our society could permit killing at any level.

Chichi


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## Poohbear (Mar 12, 2005)

Tai said:
			
		

> I didn't say that *all* pro-life people are going around telling everyone what they should do with their bodies.


Oh okay.   When you said you felt like you didnt have the right to tell anyone else what to do with their bodies, I thought you were using that as a reason why you were pro-choice.


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## shinyblackhair (Mar 12, 2005)

I am pro-life. Though God has given us a free will and choice, I do believe there is a right choice and a wrong choice. He allows us to make the call. Further I don't feel that my telling someone that the child that they conceived has a right to live is imposing my beliefs. Innocent unborn children need an advocate, just as much as children who are already born. IMO killing is wrong in or out of the womb. Choice is kind of irrelevant.

PS: I am NOT talking about rape or incest. I am talking about consenting people here who know the consequences of their actions.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 12, 2005)

I'm Pro-Life.  In Revelations, I think, John describes souls small and great around the throne of God.  *Each conception in the womb was a conception in God's mind first.* 

Yes, it's hard to say in cases of rape/incest, but if ppl are having sex without any consideration that pregnancy is a possibility, a baby should not be discarded because of the parents' choices.  

That being said, all of us have to make our own choice.  And I am not the one to judge anyone.  I guess we'll all have to answer for our actions on Judgement day.


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## stcsweet (Mar 12, 2005)

I'm a Pro-lifer, too.

*Whether you are Pro-life or Pro-choice, you don't have the right to impose your beliefs on another...and I don't condone the actions of those who do.*

Where I support my beliefs is in the support of charities, organizations, and public officers (in politics) that support the Pro-life platform.

I can't force someone to do what they don't want to do, but I can inform them and participate in the organizations that help to inform them of my position.


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## Phoenix (Mar 14, 2005)

Chichi said:
			
		

> ITA. The pope calls the culture we live now a "culture of death." We should not be surprised that senseless killings are occurring daily in our socities for if we permit the killing of innocents at the most basic level then our society could permit killing at any level.
> 
> Chichi



I agree.  Until recently I was pro-choice and in favor of the death penalty.  But, as I grow in spiritual maturity, I'm starting to think that it is not man's place to decide who is worthy of life and who is not.  That is a decision that should be left totally up to God.  Until we as a society respect all life (whether the person is a fetus, a criminal, a murderer, or whatever) we will continue to have the "life is cheap" mentality that defines our culture and leads to senseless killings.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 14, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Even though the Bible does not straight out say "Thou shall not commit abortion"... I feel like this... In order to kill someone, they have to be alive first. The Bible does say we should not kill/murder. That baby that's inside that pregnant mother is living. Using an instrument to abort it's life is killing in my opinion. Even though God did not force belief on man, *that doesn't mean He left His Word with us to be ignored and do whatever we want to do*.


 I disagree.  I think that even though people choose not to believe in God or follow his law does not mean that his word does not still stand. So people can ignore it all they want, it doesn't negate who he is.  I think it was his desire that everyone would be saved, but he knew not everyone would be b/c of their own choices  

I'm pro life for me, although I don't know what I would have done if I was 16 and could sneak off and have one , or if I had 1 and didn't want anymore.  I'm glad I never had to make the decision.  I am confident that now, at this stage in my life I would keep it. 

 But I am prochoice for other people.  I do know there are right and wrong choices.  People have to be allowed to make their own.

I also don't think baby drop offs should be something that you should be ashamed of.  The shame should not be placed on not being able to take care of a child but, if we are talking about from a moral standpoint, the shame should come from having premarrital sex.  Maybe I have a double standard b/c I have a serious problem with men who have babies and don't take care of them.


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## MomofThreeBoys (Mar 14, 2005)

I posted this in another thread my position hasn't changed....





> I am pro-choice.
> I am a Christian (yes, I live it daily!).
> Yes, I believe abortion is a sin. I would not encourage anyone to get an abortion. In fact, I would probably help them seek alternatives.
> 
> IMHO It is not the government's job to legislate all morality. As stated in my previous post, a society has to make decisions on which moral issues it would like to takle i.e. suicide. Adultery, withholding tithe, and saying the Lord's name in vain are considered sin according to the Word of God yet I don't want the government to prohibit or punish for these acts. Why should abortion be any different? Some sins are only answerable to God. As Christians, we should not force the government to enforce God's laws and reign judgement. This is what the Sadduccees and Pharisees tried to do in Jesus' day.






> I absoluletely believe God's knows us at conception as well. I don't condone abortion. I abhor it. Hypocritical would be for me to tell others I believe that it's a sin and then go out an get one for myself or tell my daugther its okay in her case.
> 
> Also, it's not hypocritical b/c we don't legislate EVERY sin. In God's eye, sin is sin. Whether it's taking the Lord's name in vain or murder or adultery. Once again, should we legislate all of those sins as well? Why not? Because we live in a secular world and have a secular government.
> 
> ...


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## Keen (Mar 14, 2005)

stcsweet said:
			
		

> I'm a Pro-lifer, too.
> 
> *Whether you are Pro-life or Pro-choice, you don't have the right to impose your beliefs on another...and I don't condone the actions of those who do.*
> 
> ...



co-signing. I am pro-life and I consider that to be my personal preference. Yes, God did give us free will and I believe that if you choose to have an abortion that is your will not God's. But I will not go around stoning people who chose to have abortions or who are pro-choice.


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## JuJuBoo (Mar 14, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Even though the Bible does not straight out say "Thou shall not commit abortion"... I feel like this... In order to kill someone, they have to be alive first.  The Bible does say we should not kill/murder.  That baby that's inside that pregnant mother is living.  Using an instrument to abort it's life is killing in my opinion.  Even though God did not force belief on man, that doesn't mean He left His Word with us to be ignored and do whatever we want to do.




*DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTO*

Adding to that, I believe abortion is a selfish choice. The focus is always on "their body" "her body" "HER choice", not realizing that it's not only a woman's body that being impacted.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 14, 2005)

Or that as a Christian our bodies do not belong to us.  





			
				JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> *DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTO*
> 
> Adding to that, I believe abortion is a selfish choice. The focus is always on "their body" "her body" "HER choice", not realizing that it's not only a woman's body that being impacted.


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## mkstar826 (Mar 14, 2005)

I feel that what a woman does with her body is between her and God. I will not judge someone for having an abortion, but I also don't condone the action and would not encourage it to anyone and would not go with anyone getting one and support that action. I do think it is wrong, but in the end, what someone else chooses to do is on them and God will deal with them.

As for ME and my body, I am pro-life. I do not care what the circumstance is, the baby is innocent in all of it and to take that baby's life is wrong. I am not God so who am I to make that choice?


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## Poohbear (Mar 14, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I disagree. I think that even though people choose not to believe in God or follow his law does not mean that his word does not still stand. So people can ignore it all they want, it doesn't negate who he is. I think it was his desire that everyone would be saved, but he knew not everyone would be b/c of their own choices


*I wasn't saying that God's word does not stand if people choose not to believe in him or follow him. I think you missed what I was saying. When I made that statement, I was saying that God didn't intend for us to ignore his word and just do whatever we want to do.  God wants us to follow his word.  Whether we follow it or not or believe it or not, God is still all powerful. I didn't say anything about that negating who He is. His word does stand no matter what happens in this world. You may have read what I said backwards or something, or you took it to something I wasnt even talking about...I dunno.  *


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## misspriss (Mar 15, 2005)

I totally agree with Natalied.  I'm a Christian and I'm pro-choice, but that doesn't mean I condone abortions.


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## NewlyNature12 (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm very pro-choice, and I am a Christian.


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 15, 2005)

mkstar826 said:
			
		

> I feel that what a woman does with her body is between her and God. *I will not judge someone for having an abortion*, but I also don't condone the action and would not encourage it to anyone and would not go with anyone getting one and support that action. I do think it is wrong, but in the end, what someone else chooses to do is on them and God will deal with them.
> 
> As for ME and my body, I am pro-life. I do not care what the circumstance is, the baby is innocent in all of it and to take that baby's life is wrong. I am not God so who am I to make that choice?


 
I don't think it's judgemental. The bible already said God knitted us together in our mothers wombs and he also knew us (and loved us) before we were born and the atrocities that we are committing in the name of "our rights" are saddening to our Lords heart and I don't think it's being judgemental to look at his word and apply it to the actions that we engage in.  I hear lots of people say that they are not going to judge people for doing this and for doing that. And that is a very noble thought and I don't mean that facetiously but God has already judged wrong and right. And either we agree with him or not. Their is no middle neutral ground. So when God says it's wrong, I in His image agree. If God says it's right, I in His image agree.


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## TJD3 (Mar 15, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I don't think it's judgemental. The bible already said God knitted us together in our mothers wombs and he also knew us (and loved us) before we were born and the atrocities that we are committing in the name of "our rights" are saddening to our Lords heart and I don't think it's being judgemental to look at his word and apply it to the actions that we engage in. I hear lots of people say that they are not going to judge people for doing this and for doing that. And that is a very noble thought and I don't mean that facetiously but God has already judged wrong and right. And either we agree with him or not. Their is no middle neutral ground. So when God says it's wrong, I in His image agree. If God says it's right, I in His image agree.


 
ITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## star (Mar 15, 2005)

I agree with what you are saying in the contents used. However, the pro-choice pro-life was birth out of abortions issues. So, if some talk about this it could be linked to the scandals the country had some years ago with people fighting against each other. So, typically speaking it assumes unless one is discussing pro-choice in different matter than the subject of where this concept was birth by the government.  


			
				Chivara said:
			
		

> I can't really answer your question based on what the bible says b/c I don't know, but in my opinion, pro-choice does not mean that you actually support abortion.  To me it simply means that you support women having a "choice" to decide what it is they are going to do with their bodies.  I don't think anyone who is pro-choice necessarily thinks having an abortion is "right" per say, but they believe that people should have control over their own bodies and dealing with whatever consequences they may face.
> 
> I guess it's all up to your own interpretation.


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## star (Mar 15, 2005)

Christians understand that there body is no longer theirs but God. If a woman is raped and taking to the hospital immeditetly her vagina is flush with medicine that kills all sperm and airborne type infections. This process works very well and most woman do not become pregnant afterwards. This is in the line with the law of nature that sperm can live in the body up to 48hours. If however, the woman still gets pregnant then I think she has to be honest with herself if she can really love the baby. She must pray to God. I myself do not believe in abortions but if I was raped I probaly(maybe) would abort the baby.  Under normal circumstances I think this would be wrong because the sex was consenus. Remeber God looks not so much as the act but the attitude. This method of cleaning woman out after being raped escalted in someone's mind to abortions. People always take something is meant for emergency or exceptional cases into way of life or new lifestyle. When a woman is scared after being raped and does nothing for a long time and becomes pregnant I think she should keep the baby.  



			
				Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> I have been battling with this for a while now. I have considered myself Pro-life,but I am learning that I can't force my beliefs on someone else. Also with some pro-lifers, they are for abortions if there has been an incidence of rape or incest-I don't agree with this. Being pro-choice doesn't mean you actually support abortion, right? I mean, if I decided to be pro-choice and someone I know decides to have an abortion, I would not be supportive in their decision and I would not be there during the process. I know the Bible discusses that 'He knew us before we were in our mother's womb,' but how can I tell some other woman what to do with her body and child? Can someone help here?


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## Zoe (Mar 15, 2005)

Sorry but you can't preach to someone about this topic.. its very touchy and unless you are in that situation yourself.. you would have no idea what that woman is going through..

Having an abortion is something that a person should really think about before they do it.  If that person confided in u as a christian you can only give her advice but you can't play God.

Just say a prayer for her and hope she does the right thing


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## EssentialGrowth (Mar 15, 2005)

Zoe said:
			
		

> Sorry but you can't preach to someone about this topic.. its very touchy and unless you are in that situation yourself.. you would have no idea what that woman is going through..
> 
> Having an abortion is something that a person should really think about before they do it.  If that person confided in u as a christian you can only give her advice but you can't play God.
> 
> Just say a prayer for her and hope she does the right thing



I too agree with your statement. However, what is "the right thing"? Is it what society views as right, what Christianity views as right, or what the woman herself views as right? Like others, I am pro-choice and believe the woman has a right to decide using her discernment on the matter. 

In relation to the subject, I pose a question to you all: When, in your opinion, is the beginning of life?


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## Honeyhips (Mar 15, 2005)

No I did understand what you meant. We agree except for one point. I think because God gave us free will that he knew people were going to live life like he didn't exist. But I also added that it doesn't mean his word doesn't still stand. I wasn't implying that you didn't know that. I was just adding my two cents. It really wasn't directed towards you personally.  Just adding to the convo already in progress. 





			
				Poohbear said:
			
		

> *I wasn't saying that God's word does not stand if people choose not to believe in him or follow him. I think you missed what I was saying. When I made that statement, I was saying that God didn't intend for us to ignore his word and just do whatever we want to do. God wants us to follow his word. Whether we follow it or not or believe it or not, God is still all powerful. I didn't say anything about that negating who He is. His word does stand no matter what happens in this world. You may have read what I said backwards or something, or you took it to something I wasnt even talking about...I dunno.  *


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## Honeyhips (Mar 15, 2005)

Are they trying to rule this out? 





			
				star said:
			
		

> Christians understand that there body is no longer theirs but God. If a woman is raped and taking to the *hospital immeditetly her vagina is flush with medicine that kills all sperm and airborne type infections*. This process works very well and most woman do not become pregnant afterwards. This is in the line with the law of nature that sperm can live in the body up to 48hours. If however, the woman still gets pregnant then I think she has to be honest with herself if she can really love the baby. She must pray to God. I myself do not believe in abortions but if I was raped I probaly(maybe) would abort the baby. Under normal circumstances I think this would be wrong because the sex was consenus. Remeber God looks not so much as the act but the attitude. *This method of cleaning woman out after being raped escalted in someone's mind to abortions.* People always take something is meant for emergency or exceptional cases into way of life or new lifestyle. When a woman is scared after being raped and does nothing for a long time and becomes pregnant I think she should keep the baby.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 15, 2005)

This is what I'd do. I would never tell someone what to do, or even what I think. I'll just pray for them, and help them if I could. 





			
				Zoe said:
			
		

> Sorry but you can't preach to someone about this topic.. its very touchy and unless you are in that situation yourself.. you would have no idea what that woman is going through..
> 
> Having an abortion is something that a person should really think about before they do it. If that person confided in u as a christian you can only give her advice but you can't play God.
> 
> *Just say a prayer for her and hope she does the right thing*





> In relation to the subject, I pose a question to you all: *When, in your opinion, is the beginning of life*?


 
To answer the other questioned posed. I think the beginning of life is at conception. I understand when people call it a mass of cells and b/c it can't survive outside of the body it is not alive. But I disagree. An Amoeba is a mass of cells, well just one, and it cannnot live out of water. Plus every single one of our organs is a mass of cells, and cannot survive alone. 

Biologists have defined life as something that has genetic material, can reproduce, respond to stimuli in its environment, metabolize,and grow. I think the baby is in the environment it can survive until is born. Just like fish are in water and we are on land, birds can fly and etc If you take anything out of it's environment, it will die. Including humans. It is also growing, has genetic material, it can't yet reproduce but neither can a new born, but it does respond to stimuli in it's environment. So to me that signfies that it is alive.


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## mkstar826 (Mar 15, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I don't think it's judgemental. The bible already said God knitted us together in our mothers wombs and he also knew us (and loved us) before we were born and the atrocities that we are committing in the name of "our rights" are saddening to our Lords heart and I don't think it's being judgemental to look at his word and apply it to the actions that we engage in.  I hear lots of people say that they are not going to judge people for doing this and for doing that. And that is a very noble thought and I don't mean that facetiously but God has already judged wrong and right. And either we agree with him or not. Their is no middle neutral ground. So when God says it's wrong, I in His image agree. If God says it's right, I in His image agree.



I'm saying I will not look at someone who has an abortion and be judgemental towards them. I won't say they are such a bad person and they should be ashamed of themselves etc etc. That is not my place. I said I believe the action of abortion is wrong, so I don't get your point.

I'm not treading on middle ground. My stance is clear.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 15, 2005)

That is what I thought you meant,and how I feel. 





			
				mkstar826 said:
			
		

> I'm saying I will not look at someone who has an abortion and be judgemental towards them. I won't say they are such a bad person and they should be ashamed of themselves etc etc. That is not my place. I said I believe the action of abortion is wrong, so I don't get your point.
> 
> I'm not treading on middle ground. My stance is clear.


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## TJD3 (Mar 15, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> This is what I'd do. I would never tell someone what to do, or even what I think. I'll just pray for them, and help them if I could.
> 
> 
> To answer the other questioned posed. I think the beginning of life is at conception. I understand when people call it a mass of cells and b/c it can't survive outside of the body it is not alive. But I disagree. An Amoeba is a mass of cells, well just one, and it cannnot live out of water. Plus every single one of our organs is a mass of cells, and cannot survive alone.
> ...


 


Well said!


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## TJD3 (Mar 15, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> This is what I'd do. I would never tell someone what to do, or even what I think. I'll just pray for them, and help them if I could.
> 
> 
> To answer the other questioned posed. I think the beginning of life is at conception. I understand when people call it a mass of cells and b/c it can't survive outside of the body it is not alive. But I disagree. An Amoeba is a mass of cells, well just one, and it cannnot live out of water. Plus every single one of our organs is a mass of cells, and cannot survive alone.
> ...


 


Well said!  That is a good explanation.


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## Poohbear (Mar 15, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> No I did understand what you meant. We agree except for one point. I think because God gave us free will that *he knew people were going to live life like he didn't exist.* But I also added that it doesn't mean his word doesn't still stand. I wasn't implying that you didn't know that. I was just adding my two cents. It really wasn't directed towards you personally. Just adding to the convo already in progress.


*oh okay! now I gotcha!  I believe what you said too (what I put in bold)!  I believe that God knew/knows that people were going to live life like He didn't exist and God knew/knows that people were going to live life like He did exist. God knows everything! *


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