# Christian Sorority



## loveschild (Sep 4, 2006)

Am I the only one that thinks there is something wrong with this... feedback please!!!


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## shiningstar84 (Sep 4, 2006)

Actually I was interested in joining one...but the church convinced me not to. Dont remember why exactly. what do think is wrong with a christian sorority?


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## sunnyjohn (Sep 5, 2006)

Subscribing.


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## loveschild (Sep 5, 2006)

Sorority
1. a local or national organization of female students, primarily for social purposes, usually with secret initiation and rites and a name composed of two or three Greek letters.  

- about forming sisterhood as well

As christians we are already brothers and sisters in Christ so we already have that. Many times sororities are about status and we know as Christians we are to be humble anyway. However, even if it is not about status there is still no need for the Christian sorority. Many times Christian sororities say it is so that they can witness and do events to spread the word of God. That is what were suppose to be doing anyway. I don't understand why we have to call it a sorority. Also sororities are exclusive and a christian secret society makes no sense to me. We should never be exclusive. I also believe it can cause separation and clicks. However, with all that said my main issue is that as Christians it seems like we are always trying to find an alternative to fit in with world. We are suppose to be trying to conform the world... instead it seems like the opposite happens. God doesn't want us to mimick the world. Basically I don't see the point of a christian sorority because the reasons that people say they are for should be happening in the first place without putting the title sorority on it. The titile should be a servant of God... why do we need greek letters, signs, and colors to do this? It seems more like trying to fit in and say hey look at us we can do this too. 

I just posted this because I was approached by a Christian Sorority and God dealt with me about it right away. So if anyone is thinking about joining one you don't have to agree with what I am saying but pray and ask God for yourself.

~Everytime I turn around God keeps blessing me... I know I don't deserve it I have to run and tell it how the Lords been good to me.~


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## PaperClip (Sep 5, 2006)

I was going to join a Black sorority in college. I was advised by my pastors not to do this.... sometimes my flesh regrets it!  Obedience is better than sacrifice!  

I think the point behind joining a sorority of any kind is the oath that comes with joining with other people...possibly people that you do not know and/or who may not subscribe to the beliefs that you do. And with a Christian sorority, it seems redundant, spiritually and naturally. Sorority (or fraternity) kind of promotes a sense of inclusion, and with inclusion comes exclusion.... 

This is just my simple speculation....


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## Shimmie (Sep 5, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I was going to join a Black sorority in college. I was advised by my pastors not to do this.... sometimes my flesh regrets it!  Obedience is better than sacrifice!
> 
> I think the point behind joining a sorority of any kind is the oath that comes with joining with other people...possibly people that you do not know and/or who may not subscribe to the beliefs that you do. And with a Christian sorority, it seems redundant, spiritually and naturally. *Sorority (or fraternity) kind of promotes a sense of inclusion, and with inclusion comes exclusion.... *
> 
> This is just my simple speculation....


 
Also, "Birds of a feather..."

Who's feathers do you want to be under?  The mindset of a Sorority's leadership.  With exclusion, it also feeds into ego and pride, which God does not approve of.  Most Sorority's have a serious pride of themselves in a negative form.


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## mkh_77 (Sep 5, 2006)

Funny stuff coming from folks who are not members of a sorority.  You all have no idea!


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## so1913 (Sep 5, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Funny stuff coming from folks who are not members of a sorority.  You all have no idea!



I know that's right 

No clue what so ever....


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## bludacious (Sep 5, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Funny stuff coming from folks who are not members of a sorority. You all have no idea!


 
Get out of my head...That's exactly what I was thinking....


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## pebbles (Sep 6, 2006)

We understand that there are many women here who are members of sororities. The OP asked a question and requested feedback. Members are expressing their personal opinions on the matter. No one particular person is being targeted. No offense is intended. 

Peace!


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## mkh_77 (Sep 6, 2006)

pebbles said:
			
		

> No offense is intended.
> 
> Peace!


 
But offense is taken when mis-information is presented.



			
				loveschild said:
			
		

> Many times sororities are about status


This is not true. 



			
				RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I think the point behind joining a sorority of any kind is the oath that comes with joining with other people...possibly people that you do not know and/or who may not subscribe to the beliefs that you do.


This is not true.



			
				ShimmieGirl said:
			
		

> Also, "Birds of a feather..."
> Who's feathers do you want to be under? The mindset of a Sorority's leadership. With exclusion, it also feeds into ego and pride, which God does not approve of. Most Sorority's have a serious pride of themselves in a negative form.


This isn't even worth addressing because it's such an outright *LIE*!


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## sunnyjohn (Sep 6, 2006)

When you join a church you come 'under the mindset' of the leadership of the church? Don't you add your 'feather' to one of the chicks in the nest (with God being mama bird and the nest being the Holy Spirit)?

If that pastor is preaching falsehood (despite the guidnace given by THE WORD), won't the entire body be influenced?


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## pebbles (Sep 6, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> But offense is taken when mis-information is presented.


 
Don't be offended by people stating their opinions, which is what this is. Folks are going to feel as they do, let them state it. So long as they are not targeting you, just let them talk. People aren't always going to agree. It's their choice to feel as they do. If you want to post why you feel this is wrong, do so, but don't let it become personal.


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## mkh_77 (Sep 6, 2006)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Don't be offended by people stating their opinions, which is what this is. Folks are going to feel as they do, let them state it. So long as they are not targeting you, just let them talk. People aren't always going to agree. It's their choice to feel as they do. If you want to post why you feel this is wrong, do so, but don't let it become personal.


 
I did post my opinon, and I stand by it and by the fact that I am offended by the mis-information presented in previous posts.


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## pebbles (Sep 6, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> I did post my opinon, and I stand by it and by the fact that I am offended by the mis-information presented in previous posts.


 
You have every right to stand by your statement. I'm not telling you not to. I'm simply saying that you shouldn't let this upset you so much. Many feel as you do. If people feel otherwise, let them.


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## GodsPromises (Sep 6, 2006)

I think that this is one of those decision where you have to do what is right for you.  One person may see it as wrong and one person may see it as right.  No one would be correct because it is an individual decison.  As for me I work at a HBCU so I am around all of them and I know what they are about and I don't see anything wrong with them.  In fact my Pastor and my youth pastor and so many others at church belongs to one or the other.  My son would love to be a Sigma and no one at church as discourged him.  

I see it as the same as belonging to any other organization.  Whatever it be.  I belong to an association for ministers wives and widows.  We truly believe that we are a sisterhood.  What is the difference?


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## so1913 (Sep 6, 2006)

LadyR said:
			
		

> I think that this is one of those decision where you have to do what is right for you.  One person may see it as wrong and one person may see it as right.  No one would be correct because it is an individual decison.  As for me I work at a HBCU so I am around all of them and I know what they are about and I don't see anything wrong with them. *In fact my Pastor and my youth pastor and so many others at church belongs to one or the other.*  My son would love to be a Sigma and no one at church as discourged him.
> 
> *I see it as the same as belonging to any other organization.  Whatever it be.  I belong to an association for ministers wives and widows.  We truly believe that we are a sisterhood.  What is the difference?*



Exactly. No different than joining any other club/group may it be community service, educational, career, or social based.  Many Pastors and active members of the church and strong faith Christians are members of these organizations, I know quite a few.  No one knows the inner workings of black sororities and fraternities unless they are members to see themselves what we do, what we stand for, and how our PURPOSE and WORK very much in favor of God.  People make MIS-judgment based on whatever misinformation they have or simply make up.  I'm sure many would be surprised that the organizations (I can speak for mine at least) are built and based on CHRISTIAN principles and are COMMUNITY SERVICE organization, and these principles as well as the Bible play a large role in some of our "ritualistic activities".  Of course with any "organization", yes, INCLUDING THE CHURCH, there is "corruption" where actions of individuals may deviate from the purpose of the organization, but that is not the fault of the organization itself, but of the individual.  Church folks just need something to talk about and want to turn one of the few positive avenues and outlets for black people into something evil and "not of God".    It's ridiculous!  I personally use my membership in my Sorority as another way outside of church to do God's work.  You say why do it through a Sorority?  I say why not?  Same reason we have clubs and organizations for EVERYTHING else under the sun.  I am offended when someone is inferring or questioning my relationship with God because of my membership in a black sorority.   I probably doing more work for my community, for the kids, being a mentor, promoting success and achievement amoung black youth as well as adults, helping the underpriviledged, providing programs in the black community, etc. than the people running their mouths.  The church is VERY important and is necessary in building a relationship with Jesus Christ and doing the work of God, I would NEVER debate that,  but God did not limit the vehicles in which we can do his work to just the church.


I don't think people realize how 'hurtful" this is.  When you know that you are sacraficing your time and efforts to do something positive to be put down by your "sisters" and "brothers" in faith.  I take this to heart for many reasons and EXPERIENCES especially when we try to work with the church to do good, because we are an organization based in Christian faith, yet some churches refuses to work with us to help better our communities.  Example, we organized this huge community arts event/festival to expose children in low income neighborhoods to the various arts, music, writing, painting, etc, free event, workshops and activities, we just wanted the children to come out in numbers to  have a good time and maybe spark some interest in an artistic hobby to maybe give them something in life to look forward to other than hanging out in the streets and playing video games.  Some churches were very open to exposing their children to our event, but the the most HURTFUL feeling was a church saying "We'd definitely participate IF you were another type of organizaiton.  We won't support you."

So yes, I will also say I take offense (I'm not saying people shouldn't voice their opinions and beliefs, they should, but I think certain reactions are warranted and being offended should not be considered unacceptable), because when you say these negative things about these organizations especially regarding faith, you are saying them about me.  And I'm sure we ALL can agree that we would be offended if someone questioned our faith.


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## PaperClip (Sep 6, 2006)

My apologies for any offenses to which I may have contributed. My post here: 

_I think the point behind joining a sorority of any kind is the oath that comes with joining with other people...possibly people that you do not know and/or who may not subscribe to the beliefs that you do._

was deemed untrue and I'm not sure what was untruthful. I welcome understanding.

All of the community service work aside, which is commendable, my perspective about pledging a sorority was influenced by my instruction from my church pastors (my spiritual parents). Their ONLY concern was the significance of the OATH at the time of "crossing over". It was the act of taking the oath that, from a spiritual/religious standpoint, was not permissible. One of my best girlfriends and my dissertation chair are members of the same sorority (the one that I had wanted to pledge). I had plenty of conversations with one of my best girlfriends about pledging, because we would have pledged at the same time. When I explained my reasons for not pledging because of the spiritual conflict regarding the oath, we did not try to pull each other in either direction. I should add that we are both lifelong Christians and church members of Pentecostal/Charismatic churches (not the same church, but of similar beliefs within this denomination). It has been explained to me that the oath has biblical scriptures (and maybe they are different depending on the sorority).

It was my understanding that the principle of taking the oath is pledging yourself to your sands and your sorors across the entire sorority. And there may be some sorors who are not Christian, so would it be acceptable to pledge yourself to a non-Christian...in ANY situation? That's why I said what I said in my earlier post about the oath.

I agree with the point that it has to be a personal decision. I also advocate that it be an spiritually and naturally informed decision.


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## so1913 (Sep 6, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> My apologies for any offenses to which I may have contributed. My post here:
> 
> _I think the point behind joining a sorority of any kind is the oath that comes with joining with other people...possibly people that you do not know and/or who may not subscribe to the beliefs that you do._
> 
> ...



To clarify, at least with my Sorority, in essence, you are pledging yourself to a life long commitment to service, upliftment and working with your "sisters" to achieve this goal. That's the oath in a nutshell.  I think too many people take the "oath"  part waaay out of context and make it into more of something it isn't.  We are not selling our souls  .  Most members of these organizations are Christians because of the strong Christian influence, which can deter people of other religious backgrounds.  There are members who are not Christians as that is not a requirement (I don't know any personally in my organization) and I question their motives for joining being that they are exposed to these Christian influences, and would not be opposed to that becoming an requirement, however, the main purpose and goal of the organization is to gather strong, educated women together to work to better the community on a Christian foundation.

I am just curious how many of these "spiritual advisors" have actually been through the process to actually know first hand what they are speaking about rather than hear say and assumptions.  Like I said, there are quite a few church leaders who are/were members, my family church pastor, my BF brother in law, even including well known leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr. and Jessie Jackson, so did they all just miss the memo??? (yes, there may be some "un-Godly" activities in their past, but those activities would have been there whether they pledged a Frat or not, and there are PLENTY of "non greek" church leaders with dirt under their belts).  These are people who have GONE through the process, proudly state their membership, and yet, continue to do the work of God. 

And my frustration isn't directed towards you, but towards this whole "idea".  You know we are cool


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## mkh_77 (Sep 6, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> My apologies for any offenses to which I may have contributed. My post here:
> 
> _I think the point behind joining a sorority of any kind is the oath that comes with joining with other people...possibly people that you do not know and/or who may not subscribe to the beliefs that you do._
> 
> was deemed untrue and I'm not sure what was untruthful. I welcome understanding.


 
As So1913 mentioned, and as is true in my case, many, but not all (and I don't even know who these non-Christians are, if there are any), of the women are Christians.  As a matter of fact, there were 2 ministers who crossed with me, and each time before we did/so something as a group, there is ALWAYS a prayer.  ALWAYS!  There is no getting around the Christianity that is expressed because it is a part of most everything we do.  My mother is also my Soror, and she is a deacon at our church.  So, your comment about joining a group who "may not subscribe to the beliefs that you do" is way off.  I primarily joined this group because we do share the same beliefs.


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## so1913 (Sep 6, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> As So1913 mentioned, and as is true in my case, many, but not all (and I don't even know who these non-Christians are, if there are any), of the women are Christians.  As a matter of fact, there were 2 ministers who crossed with me, and *each time before we did/so something as a group, there is ALWAYS a prayer.  ALWAYS!  There is no getting around the Christianity that is expressed because it is a part of most everything we do.*  My mother is also my Soror, and she is a deacon at our church.  So, your comment about joining a group who doesn't who "may not subscribe to the beliefs that you do" is way off.  I primarily joined this group because we do share the same beliefs.



Same here.  I mean the executive board includes a chaplin to facilitate prayer, scripture readings, etc.  because it is an IMPORTANT part of the sorority, God is who guides us to do and accomplish what we do.  The misconception based on lack of knowledge that people have of black frats and sororities simply amazes me.


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## PaperClip (Sep 6, 2006)

so1913 said:
			
		

> To clarify, at least with my Sorority, in essence, you are pledging yourself to a life long commitment to service, upliftment and working with your "sisters" to achieve this goal. That's the oath in a nutshell. I think too many people take the "oath" part waaay out of context and make it into more of something it isn't. We are not selling our souls  . Most members of these organizations are Christians because of the strong Christian influence, which can deter people of other religious backgrounds. There are members who are not Christians as that is not a requirement (I don't know any personally in my organization) and I question their motives for joining being that they are exposed to these Christian influences, and would not be opposed to that becoming an requirement, however, the main purpose and goal of the organization is to gather strong, educated women together to work to better the community on a Christian foundation.
> 
> I am just curious how many of these "spiritual advisors" have actually been through the process to actually know first hand what they are speaking about rather than hear say and assumptions. Like I said, there are quite a few church leaders who are/were members, my family church pastor, my BF brother in law, even including well known leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr. and Jessie Jackson, so did they all just miss the memo??? (yes, there may be some "un-Godly" activities in their past, but those activities would have been there whether they pledged a Frat or not, and there are PLENTY of "non greek" church leaders with dirt under their belts). These are people who have GONE through the process, proudly state their membership, and yet, continue to do the work of God.
> 
> And my frustration isn't directed towards you, but towards this whole "idea". You know we are cool


 
Yes, we're cool.... And thanks for your explanation....


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## PaperClip (Sep 6, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> As So1913 mentioned, and as is true in my case, many, but not all (and I don't even know who these non-Christians are, if there are any), of the women are Christians. As a matter of fact, there were 2 ministers who crossed with me, and each time before we did/so something as a group, there is ALWAYS a prayer. ALWAYS! There is no getting around the Christianity that is expressed because it is a part of most everything we do. My mother is also my Soror, and she is a deacon at our church. So, your comment about joining a group who doesn't who "may not subscribe to the beliefs that you do" is way off. I primarily joined this group because we do share the same beliefs.


 
Mkh_77: I respect your strong feelings for your organization. Like I said before, I meant no offense in my speculation or my subsequent inquiries regarding the oath. I must say that your passion is making any continued dialogue about this topic with you somewhat challenging, esp. when my remarks are described as "way off". But it's ok. I can handle it. And thankfully, I have encountered other representatives from your particular sorority who have similar passions and yet are well able to share information and make clarifications in a gentle, kind, respectful tone. 

So I'll just leave it at this. Peace to you.


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## Shimmie (Sep 6, 2006)

so1913 said:
			
		

> Exactly.
> I don't think people realize how 'hurtful" this is. When you know that you are sacraficing your time and efforts to do something positive to be put down by your "sisters" and "brothers" in faith. I take this to heart for many reasons and EXPERIENCES especially when we try to work with the church to do good, because we are an organization based in Christian faith, yet some churches refuses to work with us to help better our communities.
> 
> Example, we organized this huge community arts event/festival to expose children in low income neighborhoods to the various arts, music, writing, painting, etc, free event, workshops and activities, we just wanted the children to come out in numbers to have a good time and maybe spark some interest in an artistic hobby to maybe give them something in life to look forward to other than hanging out in the streets and playing video games. Some churches were very open to exposing their children to our event, but the the most HURTFUL feeling was a church saying "We'd definitely participate IF you were another type of organizaiton. We won't support you."


 
What you share makes sense and shows care.   I think what has given this a negative image in the church is what is termed on many college campuses and the term Sorority is just connected to a secular origin.   

I'm not saying yours, (I believe you about your Sorority), but today, everybody uses a Christian label and it's not Christian.  I see where you have made it the foundation that even those 'outside' of our faith have to respect and abide by Christian ethics.  

Bear in mind that this has not been made aware to the majority of churches who do not see a Sorority as a good thing.   You know what?  Sometimes we take for granted that what we do is so obvious that all should see and understand.   I believe you and I too apologize for offending you.  

There are many good things that we do that go misunderstood or placed into a sterotype.  Yours is not deserving of such.  Again, I apologize. 

Only a question:  What does the term 'crossing over' mean in initiation terms?  Again, it's only a question.   

Thanks, Angel.


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## so1913 (Sep 6, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> What you share makes sense and shows care.   I think what has given this a negative image in the church is what is termed on many college campuses and the term Sorority is just connected to a secular origin.
> 
> I'm not saying yours, (I believe you about your Sorority), *but today, everybody uses a Christian label and it's not Christian.*  I see where you have made it the foundation that even those 'outside' of our faith have to respect and abide by Christian ethics.
> 
> ...



This fear is understandable.  I don't think people realize that these organizations, the the nine historically black fraternities and sororities, were founded in the early 1900's, with one being founded in the early 1960's when black people were struggling with and fighting against racism, segregation, discrimination in schools, woman not having voting rights, etc. when the church played a HUGE role in the black community and family, as all we heavily depended on our faith in God, the church and each other to fight against the odds.  Black Frats and Sororities were created with with these ideas in mind. Unfortunately, today, we  don't rely on our faith as much as we used to, and that is clearly evident in the current state of our community.  Everything today is so "generalized" and Christianity has been removed from a lot to include all and make everyone "comfortable" as not to "offend" anyone.  I can only speak for mine factually, but I'm sure this goes for most of my fellow NPC organizations, that till this day, our foundation has not changed since it's inception.

"crossing over"  without getting into unecessary detail, simply means you've completed all the educational (learing history, foundation, purpose, facts, structure, etc.) and "ritualistic" requirements of the Sorority to become an official member.  In the end you pledge to dedicate time to uplift the ideals of the organization (ideals founded on Christian principles) and to work with your fellow sorority members by making a commitement to serve and uplifting the community for the better.  For analogy purposes only, it's like when you join a church, some require that you complete new membership classes and be baptized (if you have not already) in order to receive the right hand of fellowship.  

Outside of the church, being a member has allowed God to place some very positive, strong in faith, successfull, intelligent, and caring  Christian woman in my life.  These woman who have actually encouraged me to become stronger in my walk with Christ.


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## mkh_77 (Sep 6, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Mkh_77: I respect your strong feelings for your organization. Like I said before, I meant no offense in my speculation or my subsequent inquiries regarding the oath. I must say that your passion is making any continued dialogue about this topic with you somewhat challenging, esp. when my remarks are described as "way off". But it's ok. I can handle it. So I'll just leave it at this. Peace to you.


 
What?!  I was never rude or disrespectful to you--I simply called you on your mis-information.  If you can't handle that, then so be it.

ETA:  This, is not respectful in the least.  Nice jab, though. 



			
				RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> And thankfully, I have encountered other representatives from your particular sorority who have similar passions and yet are well able to share information and make clarifications in a gentle, kind, respectful tone.


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## PaperClip (Sep 6, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> What?! I was never rude or disrespectful to you--I simply called you on your mis-information. If you can't handle that, then so be it.
> 
> ETA: This, is not respectful in the least. Nice jab, though.


 
I gave my personal opinion my speculation based on the information and observations that I had witnessed. Instead of just saying that I was wrong, offer a balanced response by pointing out what is accurate, since I openly disclosed that I am not affiliated with any of such organizations. And I was not trying to "jab" you at all. I am speaking directly to you, face to face, post to post. What I said was out of my own experience and it remains true to me.


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## so1913 (Sep 6, 2006)

I'd also like to share as another example of leaders in the Christian faith that are members of these organizations is Bishop Vashti Murphy McKenzie, who is the first woman to be elected Bishop in the African American Episcopal (AME) Church (a Christian Denomination) is a member and National Chaplin of my Sorority,  and the granddaughter of one of the Sororities founding members.

Final comments (lol), I just would like to urge everyone not to be so quick to judge and to take some time to research and ask questions of these organizations, or at least find someone with these views who has once belonged to a Greek organization and has based their views on experience before condemning black fraternaties and sororities and our purpose and goals.  There are many people making negative claims on our organizations and the so called "evil" that goes on behind closed doors without having been behind them themselves to really know what we stand for.  If in the end, you feel the same way, at least you know you are basing your views and feelings on information you took time to seek and time spent with God to evaluate,  rather than taking someones word for it simply because they hold a particular "status" in the Christian Community, but take time and take that extra step to become more informed.


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## mkh_77 (Sep 6, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I gave my personal opinion my speculation based on the information and observations that I had witnessed. Instead of just saying that I was wrong, offer a balanced response by pointing out what is accurate, since I openly disclosed that I am not affiliated with any of such organizations. And I was not trying to "jab" you at all. I am speaking directly to you, face to face, post to post. What I said was out of my own experience and it remains true to me.


 
I will PM you regarding this.


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## Shimmie (Sep 6, 2006)

so1913 said:
			
		

> This fear is understandable. I don't think people realize that these organizations, the the nine historically black fraternities and sororities, were founded in the early 1900's, with one being founded in the early 1960's when black people were struggling with and fighting against racism, segregation, discrimination in schools, woman not having voting rights, etc. when the church played a HUGE role in the black community and family, as all we heavily depended on our faith in God, the church and each other to fight against the odds. Black Frats and Sororities were created with with these ideas in mind. Unfortunately, today, we don't rely on our faith as much as we used to, and that is clearly evident in the current state of our community. Everything today is so "generalized" and Christianity has been removed from a lot to include all and make everyone "comfortable" as not to "offend" anyone. I can only speak for mine factually, but I'm sure this goes for most of my fellow NPC organizations, that till this day, our foundation has not changed since it's inception.
> 
> "crossing over" without getting into unecessary detail, simply means you've completed all the educational (learing history, foundation, purpose, facts, structure, etc.) and "ritualistic" requirements of the Sorority to become an official member. In the end you pledge to dedicate time to uplift the ideals of the organization (ideals founded on Christian principles) and to work with your fellow sorority members by making a commitement to serve and uplifting the community for the better. For analogy purposes only, it's like when you join a church, some require that you complete new membership classes and be baptized (if you have not already) in order to receive the right hand of fellowship.
> 
> Outside of the church, being a member has allowed God to place some very positive, strong in faith, successfull, intelligent, and caring Christian woman in my life. These woman who have actually encouraged me to become stronger in my walk with Christ.


 
"SO", I'm glad you shared this.  I'll tell you why.  Even when our faith doesn't agree to something, or if we lack understanding, the pureness of your heart in this shines through every word you have shared.  I believe you.  No matter what my perceptions were of Sorority's and Fraternity's, I believe the heart of you.   

That's what I feel badly about.  I'm a hard one when it comes to what I've learned in the faith of being a Christian.  I will not budge and God uses this part of me in spiritual warfare.  In prayer, I battle to win (through God),  and I will not come down from my stand, until I see a heart such as yours. 

In my stand and in my lack of knowledge (of your personal experience and witness), my original comments hurt you and I'm not happy that I did.  No one in this thread deserves to be mis-judged, because of what I said.   

I will not pretend that I 'trust' what occurs in all Sorority's and Fraternity's; and that's only because I have been witness to the contrary of what you've shared about yours.  

As I shared, so many use the Christian label and do not live it.  There are some 'chapters' (am I using the right term?), where I've witnessed the lifestyles are the total opposite (they live as the world).   And "SO", I have witnessed those who lack humility and they wear being in a Sorority or Fraternity as to boast of themselves.  I simply retained that image.

Can you forgive me for thinking that of yours?  Even if no one else in your membership measures up, I know that you do.  That's not to say that your members are in question.  I clearly see that you stand out as God's handmaiden to the communities to heal others lives and his daughter whom He loves.

I believe you.  I will not lie to you for while I do still have some reservations, about the organizations (only as a concept to some I've seen, not yours),  *'S'*weet *'O'*ne, I believe you.  I can see your heart.   

BTW:  Aren't you glad that the Holy Spirit has me in check? 
Awwww, don't answer that one. He's still working on me...big time.

ETA:  I'm not playing with your name.  I just didn't want to call you "SO1913" with such a serious reply.  Hope it's okay and that I'm making some kind of sense.  If not, blame it on the Raw Food Diet... 

{{{{ Hugs }}}}


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## so1913 (Sep 6, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> What you share makes sense and shows care.   I think what has given this a negative image in the church is what is termed on many college campuses and the term Sorority is just connected to a secular origin.
> 
> I'm not saying yours, (I believe you about your Sorority), but today, everybody uses a Christian label and it's not Christian.  I see where you have made it the foundation that even those 'outside' of our faith have to respect and abide by Christian ethics.
> 
> ...



I am soooo sorry, I rushed home (because it's been on my mind since leaving the office and class) to get back on here to acknowledge, accept and thank you for your apology as I know you had no intention on offending me or anyone else on this board. I know that is not the intentions of anyone who has commented in this thread.  I'm glad you are open minded enough to at least listen and consider another view.


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## so1913 (Sep 6, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> "SO", I'm glad you shared this.  I'll tell you why.  Even when our faith doesn't agree to something, or if we lack understanding, the pureness of your heart in this shines through every word you have shared.  I believe you.  No matter what my perceptions were of Sorority's and Fraternity's, I believe the heart of you.
> 
> That's what I feel badly about.  I'm a hard one when it comes to what I've learned in the faith of being a Christian.  I will not budge and God uses this part of me in spiritual warfare.  In prayer, I battle to win (through God),  and I will not come down from my stand, until I see a heart such as yours.
> 
> ...




I truly appreciate and find comfort in your words.  Your reservations are well justified based on your experience and encounters.  You are right, there are definitely "bad" apples in the bunch, as with any group, and the individual chapters (you are correct in your reference) of the larger organization do differ from chapter to chapter, There is always a problem and battle of a subset not living up to the ideals of the main organization and it can give the wrong impression.  In today's time, we have more of an ego issue of the more recent generations (including my own), I can admittedly say I had my stint of "ego trippin' " in my early years, lol.  But God willing, these egos will diminish and humbling will set in as people who choose to join these organization mature in their membership, do the work and dedicate themselves to it's TRUE purpose.  I think this ego comes with not having to face the same things that those who came before us had to face, at least not as "in your face" as it use to be, so we take things for granted tend to "forget" our purpose, and that is not good.   I almost equate this to certain people in the church.  You have some people so involved they think they are more highly favored in God's eyes, so much more than the average person who may not worship in the same manner that they do.  They get so wrapped up in themselves and what makes them a better worshipper than the next, that they look down on those who may not be in at the same point in their relationship with God as they are, those who probably need just need someone to show them the way rather tear them down and make them feel less worthy of God's love.  These people can give other's the wrong idea of Christianity and the church's purpose and scare them away from the church.  This is not God's purpose for us as Christians, God wants us to bring people to the church and towards Him, not to judge or not scare them away. But there are always those few, and you pray that they will realize where they need to "adjust" their ways in order to fulfill God's purpose more effective and efficiently.  Back to frats and sororities, it's kind of the same thing.  Reality, if not before exiting college, definitely sets in post undergrad when you are out in the real world and you realize that membership in any of these organizations means absolutely NOTHING to your "status" in this world.  Those bad apples are weeded out, and you see who's membership is not in vain, those that continue to work and fulfill their promise to a lifetime commitment to serve and uplift, and protect the community, and do the work God set out for us to do (although there are those who go through times in their lives that don't allow them to actively participate as much as they would like to).  

It's about sacrafice, serving, and uplifting those who need it most, and there is no way for us to accomplish this WITHOUT GOD'S guidance, which is why Christianity plays such a large role in our existance.  

I'm just really happy that I could give another perspective on this, coming from someone who is an active member of a greek letter organization even after my college years.  I appreciate the discussion and I thank you Shimmie for your inspirational words, you are definitely a blessing to this board.


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## Shimmie (Sep 6, 2006)

> so1913 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mango387 (Sep 6, 2006)

I went to an HBCU too, and I was actually interested in joining a sorority *until* I realized that I did not have a chance in earth to gain acceptance, because the majority (meaning all except for maybe two) looked a certain way (2a-3b/c hair, BSL, or really light complexions).  The two who did not look like that were, I believe, legacies.  I do not think sororities are "un-Christian" or "evil," because chapters of this and other sororities or fraternities were more service oriented/less appearance driven.  While I admit that there are even churches that appear to care more about vanity, I think that some chapters of sororities/fraternities focus on it more.

Please, current members of sororities or someone, prove me wrong! LOL  I am still struggling w/ this.


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## so1913 (Sep 6, 2006)

mango387 said:
			
		

> I went to an HBCU too, and I was actually interested in joining a sorority *until* I realized that I did not have a chance in earth to gain acceptance, because the majority (meaning all accept for maybe two) looked a certain way (2a-3b/c hair, BSL, or really light complexions).  The two who did not look like that were, I believe, legacies.  I do not think sororities are "un-Christian" or "evil," because chapters of this and other sororities or fraternities were more service oriented/less appearance driven.  While I admit that there are even churches that appear to care more about vanity, I think that some chapters of sororities/fraternities focus on it more.
> 
> Please, current members of sororities or someone, prove me wrong! LOL  I am still struggling w/ this.



Based on one specific term that you used, I do not believe you are referring to my Sorority, however, if you are, please feel free to PM me if my previous posts in this thread do not give you perspective.  I can speak "generally" for the other organizations based on association and self study on the National Pan Hellenic Council organizations, however, I can only factually on my own organization and the exact basis of it's creation, and requirements for membership.  Also, please  refer to my last post as I touched on individuals and individual chapters often times  as subsets of a larger group can lose focus as to it's purpose in the big picture which can be unfortunate.  I also urge you to read and research all you can on all the various organizations and it's history.  It's important that you share the same ideals, and goals and they support your own beliefs.  Always go to God for answers, he will not stir you in the wrong direction in your decision about whether or not joining is right for *you*, if you decide to join, which one is right for you, and when the time is right for you.   In the end, all the organizations have a similar common goal to serve,  however as there are with the various denominations in the Christian faith, there are those "factors" that set us apart from each other.  Hopefully your concerns can be addressed and clarified.


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## mango387 (Sep 7, 2006)

So1913, if you get my pm's, please ignore them.  (I am still relatively ignorant about the pm process).  Thank you for your advice and I shall use it.


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## MrsQueeny (Sep 7, 2006)

I was able to witness the good and bad sides of sororities.  One bad experience was with a young lady who had just crossed over and she used that to bully and intimidate people.  Me being the smart mouth that I am stood up to her to which she replied "you will never be a (sorority name here)".  I said good "because I wasn't going to pledge (sorority name here) anyway, and even if I did I wouldn't want to be associated with anything that would let you in".  She was shocked and shut up.  

Then I had the pleasure of being around the most wonderful group of young ladies that took me in, would talk with me, and let me hang out although I was a freshman and not really into it at that time.  I think that if you decide to pledge, you should get as much info as you can about the types of activities they are involved in and how the chapter is run.  You will find that a good number are in line with GOD and His word.  I think the reservation some have is just from seeing those who are strictly focused on the letters, parties, and putting their responsibility to the chapter before GOD.  Thankfully there are those who are in these organizations and allow their steps to be ordered by GOD.  Take care Q


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## live2bgr8 (Nov 2, 2006)

I see this discussion as similar to Christian Hip-hop...  or other music that sounds "too" secular...

But the real point is to listen to the content. What are the people talking about the most? What is their focus?

What they're talking about is what they're caring about...

Not all sororities are the same... And in some instances, they can provide a GREAT opportunity to witness to others...

See:
http://www.alocs.org/index.html

OR

http://www.deltapsiepsilon.com/

I feel these young women are truly inspirational. And I will not question their dedication to God, the Christian faith, the Holy Spirit, or their values. 

This statement is coming from a non Greek.


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## asubeauty (Nov 2, 2006)

Wow, I'm impressed by this thread!  As a member of a sorority, I definitely wouldn't want some one to think that I was a part of something that would be detrimental to my spiritual growth (although I do know that's not true).

I'm in an undergrad chapter of a sorority, and I honestly don't think that one should base her opinion of greeks on undergrads because joining the org is a lifelong committment, and some undergrads are not at the point where they see that the most valuable part of our sisterhood are those values that the organizations are based on.  

I do think that joining a sorority made me a better person; others have told me that as well.  If anything, my sorors have helped me remain spiritual and selfless.  If I want to go to church, I call my LS.  If I want to go to Bible Study, I'll call my LS.  If I need prayer or somebody to read and discuss the Bible with, most likely I will call a soror.  

Keep in mind that I won't just call ANY soror, but I think that my membership is valuable because now I have someone to call that is concerned with my spiritual growth. 

Just my $0.02


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## Supergirl (Nov 3, 2006)

so1913 said:
			
		

> To clarify, at least with my Sorority, in essence, you are pledging yourself to a life long commitment to service, upliftment and working with your "sisters" to achieve this goal. That's the oath in a nutshell.  I think too many people take the "oath"  part waaay out of context and make it into more of something it isn't.  We are not selling our souls  .  Most members of these organizations are Christians because of the strong Christian influence, which can deter people of other religious backgrounds.  There are members who are not Christians as that is not a requirement (I don't know any personally in my organization) and I question their motives for joining being that they are exposed to these Christian influences, and would not be opposed to that becoming an requirement, however, the main purpose and goal of the organization is to gather strong, educated women together to work to better the community on a Christian foundation.
> 
> I am just curious how many of these "spiritual advisors" have actually been through the process to actually know first hand what they are speaking about rather than hear say and assumptions.  Like I said, there are quite a few church leaders who are/were members, my family church pastor, my BF brother in law, even including well known leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr. and Jessie Jackson, so did they all just miss the memo??? (yes, there may be some "un-Godly" activities in their past, but those activities would have been there whether they pledged a Frat or not, and there are PLENTY of "non greek" church leaders with dirt under their belts).  These are people who have GONE through the process, proudly state their membership, and yet, continue to do the work of God.
> 
> And my frustration isn't directed towards you, but towards this whole "idea".  You know we are cool



I've not read through this thread, but I thought this was good.  I too am a member of a sorority that I joined back in my college days.  While my role in the sorority is much different now, I still keep in touch with all of my linesisters and we've had the blessing and opportunity to see each other grow in the Lord over the years even though our sorority was not a Christian sorority per say.  We've also gotten to see many life changes and blessings happen with each other.  It's really neat to continually enter and witness good friends in the progressive stages of life.

Now, there was a predominantly black Christian sorority on our campus and I fell in love with these ladies in my last couple of years in college and I think I hung out with them as much as I did my own sorority.  Their camraderie (sp?) and ministry was just a wonderful thing.  I see nothing wrong with a Christian sorority.  These ladies as individuals were great, but a whole group of them--I can't even begin to explain the power there.

My pastor, as much as I love him, is so against greek organizations and I just don't agree with him.  I really kind of think he is bitter because of his experience with greek orgs. in his college days.  He's never said it, but the way he dogs greek orgs, it sounds like perhaps he was rejected or mistreated by one.  His bitterness on that issue comes across the pulpit in a non-subtle way.


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## live2bgr8 (Nov 3, 2006)

Supergirl said:
			
		

> ...*Now, there was a predominantly black Christian sorority on our campus* and I fell in love with these ladies in my last couple of years in college and I think I hung out with them as much as I did my own sorority. Their camraderie (sp?) and ministry was just a wonderful thing. I see nothing wrong with a Christian sorority. These ladies as individuals were great, but a whole group of them--I can't even begin to explain the power there....


 
Hi Supergirl:  Which one? Just curious... I have been thinking/praying about pledging as a graduate, but still not sure... neither of the one's that I'm leaning towards are in this area (that I know of). But I hope that I could get with some other like minded women and charter one.  :scratchch


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## Supergirl (Nov 4, 2006)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> Hi Supergirl:  Which one? Just curious... I have been thinking/praying about pledging as a graduate, but still not sure... neither of the one's that I'm leaning towards are in this area (that I know of). But I hope that I could get with some other like minded women and charter one.  :scratchch



It was ALO


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