# Is hair texture the new paper bag test???



## Cali*Rocks (Dec 8, 2009)

I have noticed lately a lot of people focusing extensively on hair type. To me it isn't that serious and never will be. However for many others it's something that makes them better than everybody else. When my mother was in Jack and Jill the paper bag test was something VERY real and in order to be apart of the group you should pass it  Do you feel some people will place extra emphasis on letting you know that their is a "3a or 3b or the elusive 3c" when you haven't even asked for that information? Or even lie about the TRUE textures of their hair to fit into a certain "Club" How do you feel about the issue?? Thoughts?


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## maxineshaw (Dec 8, 2009)

Well, I wouldn't call it "new".  My only opinion on the matter.


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## SEMO (Dec 8, 2009)

Interesting topic.  Definitely merits some thought, and I think there is a lot of truth in your supposition.


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## Neith (Dec 8, 2009)

The good hair/bad hair thing has been around for AGES! 

It's unfortunate, but let's hope that things continue to get better as time goes on.


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## Whimsy (Dec 8, 2009)

New?
Not really, IMO.
Hair typing (and the loose curl / tight curl issue), has been goin on for ever


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## BeetleBug (Dec 8, 2009)

I  noticed the lying.


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## CurlTalk (Dec 8, 2009)

My thoughts on the issue: insecurity is a huge thing for AA women, especially b/c of the years and years and years of being told by the media's portrayal (look at black dolls' hair and skin, and even the new Disney princess' hair) of 'beautiful' that certain things about us just aren't desirable (hair texture and skin color being the most prevalent).  
Nearly all (if not all) women want to feel pretty, and loved, and it's only in human nature to assert the qualities we have that we feel will make us more accepted by others. That said, I don't find it surprising when people assert their looser hair texture, even when uncalled for, and frankly it doesn't bother me. We all want to be accepted and loved and wanted, and we all go about becoming so through whatever means we feel necessary/fit.


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## Skiggle (Dec 8, 2009)

The higher you on the hair hierarchy
the better the ..........

Let's just say obvious curls
gets you alot of love.


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## Supervixen (Dec 8, 2009)

I posted a picture here, and I was asked several times if I was TEXTLAXED even though I CLEARLY said I was NATURAL in the body of the post, and my siggy denotes my BC dates.  

I'm darker, so it was a little weird, and made me wonder...but I'd never mentioned it; thanks for letting me vent.  LOL.


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## nikki2229 (Dec 8, 2009)

This is really nothing new. I think we may be more aware of it because we are on a hair forum.
I really don't pay attention to it anymore because I am more focused on maintaining and learning about keeping my own hair healthy.

I think things may be changing on here. When I first came here, most of the highly praised threads were the 3c's and higher.  Now, there has been a whole lot of BC's and the majority of the women have 3c/4a, 4a, or 4a/b combos. I think the rash of BC's, transitioners, and women growing their hair to wonderful lengths has allowed us to see the beauty in all of the different hair types.

In defense of the 3b's and higher, I have seen threads where it has been stated that those types of hair are boring, limp, etc. And while I am happy that people are becoming more appreciative and accepting of highly textured hair, I do think that those comments can be hurtful too.


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## locabouthair (Dec 8, 2009)

I dont notice people lying about being a 3 something. But I do notice people claiming 4b and then I see a pic and they are clearly in the 3's. I think a lot of people calling themselves type 4 are really type 3's. It's not a big deal just something I notice a lot.


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## Cali*Rocks (Dec 8, 2009)

MondoDismo said:


> Well, I wouldn't call it "new".  My only opinion on the matter.





Neith said:


> The good hair/bad hair thing has been around for AGES!
> 
> It's unfortunate, but let's hope that things continue to get better as time goes on.





Whimsy said:


> New?
> Not really, IMO.
> Hair typing (and the loose curl / tight curl issue), has been goin on for ever



Yea, I know hair type isn't really new but it has come to attention on numerous occasions recently and I just wanted some feedback.



SEMO said:


> Interesting topic.  Definitely merits some thought, and I think there is a lot of truth in your supposition.



I want to write a sociology paper about the subject and see what research I can find. 



BeetleBug said:


> I  noticed the lying.



I have too, which makes me wonder WHY? especially if you have a picture of your hair in your siggie and I can clearly see that it's not 3c then WHY LIE? 



CurlTalk said:


> My thoughts on the issue: insecurity is a huge thing for AA women, especially b/c of the years and years and years of being told by the media's portrayal (look at black dolls' hair and skin, and even the new Disney princess' hair) of 'beautiful' that certain things about us just aren't desirable (hair texture and skin color being the most prevalent).
> Nearly all (if not all) women want to feel pretty, and loved, and it's only in human nature to assert the qualities we have that we feel will make us more accepted by others. That said, I don't find it surprising when people assert their looser hair texture, even when uncalled for, and frankly it doesn't bother me. We all want to be accepted and loved and wanted, and we all go about becoming so through whatever means we feel necessary/fit.



Great post!! I guess my awareness of the issue has been heightened because I belong to a hair forum, but the I have been thinking about the subject for days on end.



Skiggle said:


> The higher you on the hair hierarchy
> the better the ..........
> 
> Let's just say obvious curls
> gets you alot of love.



I have noticed that as well, which made me hesitant to post my BC pics because of the obvious 300+ responses for 3's and highers versus those in the 4s. I actually find it disgusting. 



Cyd Chicago said:


> *I posted a picture here, and I was asked several times if I was TEXTLAXED even though I CLEARLY said I was NATURAL in the body of the post, *and my siggy denotes my BC dates.
> 
> I'm darker, so it was a little weird, and made me wonder...but I'd never mentioned it; thanks for letting me vent.  LOL.



Wow and just Wow that makes me 



nikki2229 said:


> This is really nothing new. I think we may be more aware of it because we are on a hair forum.
> I really don't pay attention to it anymore because I am more focused on maintaining and learning about keeping my own hair healthy.
> 
> I think things may be changing on here. When I first came here, most of the highly praised threads were the 3c's and higher.  Now, there has been a whole lot of BC's and the majority of the women have 3c/4a, 4a, or 4a/b combos. I think the rash of BC's, transitioners, and women growing their hair to wonderful lengths has allowed us to see the beauty in all of the different hair types.
> ...


I agree, I remember a thread where a member said that because someone had 3b hair, then they couldn't tell her about hair because "Her hair was easy to deal with"


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## poookie (Dec 8, 2009)

i agree with Neith; it's been going on for a while, and i hope it does get better over time.

it's got to have some truth to it:  why else do people in the 3s get 100s more "thanks" in their BC threads than type 4s??  it's almost as if a 4a/4b'er has to have long hair before her hair can be recognized by all as beautiful.

the change has to come from within, & i think subconsciously for a portion of posters here, they're still under all the good hair / bad hair beliefs they were taught before finding LHCF.


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## Cali*Rocks (Dec 8, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> I dont notice people lying about being a 3 something. But I do notice people claiming 4b and then I see a pic and they are clearly in the 3's. I think a lot of people calling themselves type 4 are really type 3's. It's not a big deal just something I notice a lot.



Usually I notice it being the other way around. It doesn't really bother me because you can call your hair 2a if that makes you happy. I just wonder the mentality of a person who clearly has 4b hair saying their 3b.


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Dec 8, 2009)

in puerto rico they used to do a fan test.  the paper bag or feature test didnt work cause you can have some one dark with very european features and some one light with very black features.  so they would have a fan set up in certain establishments and if your hair blew in the wind then you have enough european in you to get in, if you hair didnt move, you were too black...

so yeah, its been around for a minute...


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## Cali*Rocks (Dec 8, 2009)

poookie said:


> i agree with Neith; it's been going on for a while, and i hope it does get better over time.
> 
> *it's got to have some truth to it:  why else do people in the 3s get 100s more "thanks" in their BC threads than type 4s??
> *
> the change has to come from within, & i think subconsciously for a portion of posters here, they're still under all the good hair / bad hair beliefs they were taught before finding LHCF.




I agree 100% it does need to come from within . And to the bolded it makes me feel erplexed a certain way about the forum.


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## locabouthair (Dec 8, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> Usually I notice it being the other way around. It doesn't really bother me because you can call your hair 2a if that makes you happy. *I just wonder the mentality of a person who clearly has 4b hair saying their 3b. *



I never notice this but I dont understand people who want to pretent their another type than what they are. I know I'm 4z aint no denying that


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## Pretty Star (Dec 8, 2009)

MondoDismo said:


> Well, I wouldn't call it "new".


 

Exactly. There's nothing new about it. At the same time they were doing paper bag tests, they were also doing comb tests. They'd leave a comb on your door step, if you couldn't get it through your hair in 1 pass, you didn't make the cut. Hair texture has _always _been an issue in the black community. It's nothing new.


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Dec 8, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> Usually I notice it being the other way around. It doesn't really bother me because you can call your hair 2a if that makes you happy. I just wonder the mentality of a person who clearly has 4b hair saying their 3b.



maybe they're confused...  i say i'm a 3b not cause that's what i want to be but because i think that's the best group i fit into.  some one told me i was a 3a and i was like "what?! shut you're face!"

i personally love 4a hair and wish i had that texture.  i think it looks better to me.  but then i dont know if its a solid 4a that i love so much.  some 4a's look too loose and some 4a's look tighter... in fact this whole system confuses me cause my hair never looks like the 3bs listed lol


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## Transformer (Dec 8, 2009)

Hair texture has always been part of the "paper bag test."  Actually the-comb test was preferential to the bag---if you had "good hair" that meant that you were obviously mixed.

 Today...I'm seeing more and more YOUNG men desiring fairer skin women.  I guess relaxers have taken hair textures down a peg.  If you have long hair regardless of texture...men tend to notice.

With women...I think they do give a bow to women with straighter textures.  So I think the texture test applies more to women.


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## Esq.2B (Dec 8, 2009)

Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> in puerto rico they used to do a fan test. the paper bag or feature test didnt work cause you can have some one dark with very european features and some one light with very black features. so they would have a fan set up in certain establishments and if your hair blew in the wind then you have enough european in you to get in, if you hair didnt move, you were too black...
> 
> so yeah, its been around for a minute...


 
  Oh SNAP!


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## CurlTalk (Dec 8, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> I have noticed that as well, which made me hesitant to post my BC pics because of the obvious 300+ responses for 3's and highers versus those in the 4s. I actually find it disgusting.



I've noticed this too, and it is kinda sad that this pattern of oohing and ahing at looser textures happens in 2009. like i remember being in elementary school, when the prettiest girl in class never had type-4 hair...things haven't changed, and thats sad. 
the good thing is: we can teach our daughters and nieces to love themselves, and to appreciate the diversity of beauty, and, in time, trust that the situation will get better, and ALL types of hair will be admired.


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## locabouthair (Dec 8, 2009)

poookie said:


> i agree with Neith; it's been going on for a while, and i hope it does get better over time.
> 
> it's got to have some truth to it:  why else do people in the 3s get 100s more "thanks" in their BC threads than type 4s??  it's almost as if a 4a/4b'er has to have long hair before her hair can be recognized by all as beautiful.
> 
> the change has to come from within, & i think subconsciously for a portion of posters here, *they're still under all the good hair / bad hair beliefs they were taught before finding LHCF.*



Yep. I remember a member saying "4z hair ain't cute". Some naturals on this board still practice the good hair/bad hair thing.  

I dont mean to be negative. But the good/bad hair thing will always exist. I think it will get better because I have seen more women rocking fros and embracing their natural texture but it seems like most people have a disdain for type 4 hair. I still remember the comments I got when I was natural. 

This reminds of when I was in the elevator today and there was girl with 4b hair. It was a TWA and it was colored. It looked so nice on her.


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## chrisanddonniesmommy (Dec 8, 2009)

I do notice the obsession on here and other sites, especially from ladies out of the grouping.


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## Almaz (Dec 8, 2009)

When will it ever end


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Dec 8, 2009)

chrisanddonniesmommy said:


> I do notice the obsession on here and other sites, especially from ladies out of the grouping.



what do you mean by out of the grouping?  (seriously, i dunno)


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## ceebee3 (Dec 8, 2009)

BeetleBug said:


> I noticed the lying.


 



That was funny!  I don't think people are lying all the time though.  The hair typing thing is too confusing and we all need to back away from it.

No one on this planet has Ceebee3 hair but me, so I'm going to learn how to best care for my hair  while sharing and enjoying everyone else's progress at the same time.


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## CurlTalk (Dec 8, 2009)

Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> what do you mean by out of the grouping?  (seriously, i dunno)



i think she was referring to posters without type3 hair


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## LadyRaider (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm just asking. Could the same be said for people with long hair vs. us short haired people? I see more oooh and ahhh over long hair than hair texture. Hair texture-- who cares? If you don't like yours relax it. 

I don't have a dog in the hunt. People tell me I can't tell my hair texture until I cut off my relaxed ends which I'm not doing for a while, so I have no idea what mine is. My momma said I had good hair though.  ETA: And if everyone's momma had told them the same thing, we'd all be better off.


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## brownbean96 (Dec 8, 2009)

wow, are you serious.  that's crazy. 


Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> in puerto rico they used to do a fan test. the paper bag or feature test didnt work cause you can have some one dark with very european features and some one light with very black features. so they would have a fan set up in certain establishments and if your hair blew in the wind then you have enough european in you to get in, if you hair didnt move, you were too black...
> 
> so yeah, its been around for a minute...


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## BeetleBug (Dec 8, 2009)

ceebee3 said:


> That was funny!*  I don't think people are lying all the time though*.  The hair typing thing is too confusing and we all need to back away from it.
> 
> No one on this planet has Ceebee3 hair but me, so I'm going to learn how to best care for my hair  while sharing and enjoying everyone else's progress at the same time.



Shoot, it might even be denial. You have no curls or even coils and you're claiming type 3. I guess whatever makes you sleep better at night.


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## LadyRaider (Dec 8, 2009)

Actually it'd be cool if someone had an example/link of someone with 4 whatever hair getting less attention than someone with 3 something hair on the forum. Because I am a newbie and can't really tell the difference in textures. All y'all look pretty cute to me.


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Dec 8, 2009)

brownbean96 said:


> wow, are you serious.  that's crazy.



yes ma'am, very much so.  my great grandma told me and my cousins about it 1st cause they was teasing me for being so dark (i was extra black that summer lol playing hard!).  i'm the darkest one on my moms side, but the main bully that day who is about j.lo's complexion (when doing movies, not videos.  cause you no j.lo sprays on the tan when she wants us bopping to her music), hazel eyes but 4b hair she kept in braids. grams pointed out that i would be allowed places she couldnt.  asked her if she would have liked that and proceeded to pop them for being mean. then i got popped for being a baby cry.

but then as adults that same cousin took a course in school about puerto ricos african background and it mentioned that along with the paper bag (that bag crossed waters yall) and felt the need to call me way out in az to remind me about it.  so grams wasnt making it up.


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## dynamic1 (Dec 8, 2009)

How does one know someone is "lying" about their texture and not just "mistaken" about their texture.  The hair typing system is arbitrary and confusing...people randomly adding categories, cross categories, wide ranges, etc.  As another person indicated, I see more type 3's (by Andre's definition) claiming type 4.  

Additionally, the only person that has to like your hair is you.  No amount of praise and positive feedback on earth will matter, if you do not like it.  I have yet to notice the disparity mentioned regarding big choppers.  Maybe I am not looking for it.  People have preferences, why take it personally?  I prefer thick hair; does that bother people as much as texture preference does? What about hair color preference or length preference?


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## CurlTalk (Dec 8, 2009)

LadyRaider said:


> I'm just asking. Could the same be said for people with long hair vs. us short haired people? I see more oooh and ahhh over long hair than hair texture. Hair texture-- who cares? If you don't like yours relax it.
> 
> I don't have a dog in the hunt. People tell me I can't tell my hair texture until I cut off my relaxed ends which I'm not doing for a while, so I have no idea what mine is. My momma said I had good hair though.  ETA: And if everyone's momma had told them the same thing, we'd all be better off.




IMO, hair length has more to do with care and dedication than anything else. We admire longer hair because we know what it took to get there. 
Hair texture on the other hand is something that no matter how much time, dedication, or care put into it cannot be changed. It's more a part of someone than hair length, and so is a touchier thing when one person's is lauded over another's.


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## poookie (Dec 8, 2009)

dynamic1 said:


> How does one know someone is "lying" about their texture and not just "mistaken" about their texture.  The hair typing system is arbitrary and confusing...people randomly adding categories, cross categories, wide ranges, etc.  As another person indicated, I see more type 3's (by Andre's definition) claiming type 4.
> 
> Additionally, the only person that has to like your hair is you.  No amount of praise and positive feedback on earth will matter, if you do not like it.  I have yet to notice the disparity mentioned regarding big choppers.  Maybe I am not looking for it.  People have preferences, why take it personally?  *I prefer thick hair; does that bother people as much as texture preference does? *What about hair color preference or length preference?



thick hair is another thing i noticed on this board.  the general consensus is to immediately chop hair off where it's thin, so it'll grow in thick.  but some people naturally have sparse or thin hair, & if they chop it, it'll just grow back thin.  

that was my case, & the main reason why i never posted my length shots when i was APL.  my relaxed hair was thin & see-through due mostly to my fine hair & not poor hair care practices, & i remember reading a post about "how ugly thin hair is"   it was hurtful.

i also notice ladies with long thick hair get much more "thanks" than long thin haired ladies when they meet their goals.

every length goal met deserves congratulations


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## LadyRaider (Dec 8, 2009)

CurlTalk said:


> IMO, hair length has more to do with care and dedication than anything else. We admire longer hair because we know what it took to get there.
> Hair texture on the other hand is something that no matter how much time, dedication, or care put into it cannot be changed. It's more a part of someone than hair length, and so is a touchier thing when one person's is lauded over another's.



I understand, CurlTalk. And I see that. But there are newbies that come in here with APL hair and talking about how they were just learning to do their hair... I think some people DO just luck out with hair that gets longer too. Makes me more jealous than hair texture.


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## locabouthair (Dec 8, 2009)

poookie said:


> thick hair is another thing i noticed on this board.  the general consensus is to immediately chop hair off where it's thin, so it'll grow in thick.  but some people naturally have sparse or thin hair, & if they chop it, it'll just grow back thin.
> 
> *that was my case, & the main reason why i never posted my length shots when i was APL.  my relaxed hair was thin & see-through due mostly to my fine hair & not poor hair care practices, & i remember reading a post about "how ugly thin hair is"   it was hurtful.*
> i also notice ladies with long thick hair get much more "thanks" than long thin haired ladies when they meet their goals.
> ...



I remember looking at your album picks and your hair looked pretty thick to me.


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## yeswecan (Dec 8, 2009)

I mention my hair type to get feedback from ppl who have a similar hair experience, sometime ppl who dont have my degree of kink/coil/napp just don't have a clue what I'm going through, other than that, drama is not my thing, I only have time and energy for positivity and improvement


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## ceebee3 (Dec 8, 2009)

poookie said:


> thick hair is another thing i noticed on this board. the general consensus is to immediately chop hair off where it's thin, so it'll grow in thick. but some people naturally have sparse or thin hair, & if they chop it, it'll just grow back thin.
> 
> that was my case, & the main reason why i never posted my length shots when i was APL. my relaxed hair was thin & see-through due mostly to my fine hair & not poor hair care practices, & i remember reading a post about "how ugly thin hair is"  it was hurtful.
> 
> ...


 
I can't believe people listen to that. People are seriously cutting their hair to make it thicker when your hair does not all grow in at the same length at the same time.

That does not make sense.  Yall better put those scissors down!!!!


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## locabouthair (Dec 8, 2009)

ceebee3 said:


> I can't believe people listen to that. People are seriously cutting their hair to make it thicker *when your hair does not all grow in at the same length at the same time.
> *
> That does not make sense.  Yall better put those scissors down!!!!



I agree. 

But honestly, sometimes it needs to be cut. I'm not talking about anyone on the board. But when my hair broke off badly and people kept constantly asking me what happened to it, I knew those ends had to go.


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## Cali*Rocks (Dec 8, 2009)

CurlTalk said:


> IMO, hair length has more to do with care and dedication than anything else. We admire longer hair because we know what it took to get there.
> Hair texture on the other hand is something that no matter how much time, dedication, or care put into it cannot be changed. It's more a part of someone than hair length, and so is a touchier thing when one person's is lauded over another's.




Exactly!!! I don;t like when people are praised for something they had nothing to do with. When I posted my bc pics I was applauded for having hair that looked really healthy. 3 Hair has more of a shine to it, not by something "I" personally did


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## sylver2 (Dec 8, 2009)

nothing to add to that paper bag topic but
i never see anyone saying they are a type 3 when they are a type 4.  I do however see many type 3s saying they are type 4's.
for me personally hair type plays a big role.  When i was natural i could not understand why my hair would not mimic Jasmine Guy's, Chilli, Michael Michelle, Rae Dawn Ching, etc no matter how hard i followed their regimens and products.  Never realized my hair was more like Oprahs, angela bassetts,aaliyah etc.  had i known might of stayed natural and able to find what was right for my hair.  now as a relaxed type 4 , type still plays big role.  it still won't do what type 3s relaxed or natural do.  this is for me personally.  my own opinion.


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## MrsAriannaAmbers (Dec 8, 2009)

*I can't begin to figure out what my hair type is to save my life..So when ya'll be talking hair types...I'm always lost...I think for one I have been relaxing my hair for so long I never got to know my natural hair or what it is...I just did a mini BC on the relaxed ends so I can start figuring out what type it is...since I am transitioning...At this time I just look at ya'lls pics and try to pick the one closest to mine...

If hair typing is serious to someone...where they call someone out or they are lying about their own...maybe it might just be the person's overall attitude/persona and its probably not just limited to hair.  I believe true hair lovers as myself think all hair is beautiful...I don't care about the type

***walks away feeling some kind of ways...feeling like I can marry ya'lls fotikis and hair siggys****


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## ceebee3 (Dec 8, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> I agree.
> 
> But honestly, sometimes it needs to be cut. I'm not talking about anyone on the board. But when my hair broke off badly and people kept constantly asking me what happened to it, I knew those ends had to go.


 
I totally understand getting rid of damaged hair but to cut your healthy hair because it's longer and appears thinner than the restof your hair is crazy.

The only time I would consider that is to maintain my goal length, not while I'm trying to get there.


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## ChristmasCarol (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm always on the lookout for hairporn, so when I see a reveal/progress/BC thread with 600 views - I'm in there. Not because I think the person has a certain type hair, I'm just tryin' to see what's goin' on up in there. I know the ladies of LHCF, so I know the hair must be on point (or a gif.gate is occuring). Of course, I'll leave thanks if I go into the thread to see the pics.

It's like if you go to the mall and one store has hundreds of customers, you're gonna go see what the hype is about. Numbers attract more numbers. If another store only has the clerk and one customer, you probably won't feel the need to rush in. That said, I think the higher views and posts count attract even more members and then they in turn leave even more "Thanks"...maybe.


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## Skiggle (Dec 8, 2009)

This is another reason why I suspect
alot of people with 4b, c, z hair textures won't
go natural or show pics.
Hell, I'm one of them. *I'm learning to accept my texture now*
I read in another thread when a poster
wrote how she hated coily hair and prefers 
noticeable coils/curls. My stomach immediately felt .
There is a inner
dislike/hatred for this texture and thus there will always be a battle of
"good hair".
Have you ever seen a thread like "WOULD YOU CHANGE YOUR  3 a b c TEXTURE TO A KINKIER TEXTURE".. I know DEEP DOWN that most people *WILL NOT want hair that is lower than 4a.*
Look at tv commercials, newspaper/magzaines ad...
and notice the black women...curls, curls....
the truth lies everywhere..

*Sorry for this long post, but I'm just telling
it like it is*


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## happylife (Dec 8, 2009)

Can't brow beat people from lusting over something they personally deem beautiful by making them feel guilty about it. Ever. Its like trying to make a gay person not gay. You just like what you like. No explanation should be needed.

Not one word can fall from your mouth or type with your fingers will ever make a hill of beans difference.  It is what it is.


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## glamazon386 (Dec 8, 2009)

Hair texture has always gone hand in hand with the paper bag test.


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## claudia05 (Dec 8, 2009)

Skiggle said:


> Have you ever seen a thread like "WOULD YOU CHANGE YOUR 3 a b c TEXTURE TO A KINKIER TEXTURE".. I know DEEP DOWN that most people WILL NOT want hair that is lower than 4a.


Higher than 4a . It bothers me when people refer to type 3 as _higher_ than type 4...


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## ChristmasCarol (Dec 8, 2009)

claudia05 said:


> Higher than 4a . It bothers me when people refer to type 3 as _higher_ than type 4...


 
I see this statement alot too...I thought the number 4 was _higher_ than the number 3.


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## claudia05 (Dec 8, 2009)

sipp100 said:


> *I see this statement alot too*...I thought the number 4 was _higher_ than the number 3.


Says a lot sadly...


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## Pompous Blue (Dec 8, 2009)

claudia05 said:


> Higher than 4a . It bothers me when people refer to type 3 as _higher_ than type 4...





sipp100 said:


> I see this statement alot too...I thought the number 4 was _higher_ than the number 3.


My "thanks" wasn't enough.

Thank you for saying this. I was confused. Maybe they think 3 is a better hair texture than 4 by saying 4 is lower than 3.

Just an observation.


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## claudia05 (Dec 8, 2009)

Pompous Blue said:


> My "thanks" wasn't enough.
> 
> Thank you for saying this. I was confused.* Maybe they think 3 is a better hair texture than 4 by saying 4 is lower than 3.
> *
> Just an observation.


Bingo. Freudian slip...


----------



## yeswecan (Dec 8, 2009)

love your hair love yourself do your best with what you have I think I'm a 4c/z? I have dryness issues I'm 1mnth in at this site and I love my natural hair so happy for the love support and info to help me be the best that I can. When I say texturize to hairdressers they bonestraight my crowning glory and I always have to grow it out so this time with product knowledge I wont have to give up or give in to what does not work for me hair type is just info based thats why everyone is on this site all types natural texlaxed and relaxed dont be mad at each other just get what you need


----------



## ChristmasCarol (Dec 8, 2009)

I don't want to be quick to infer anything about anyone, but if you made a list like this:

1.
2.
3.
4.

Then, yeah, type 1 is higher (on the list)

I guess we can ALL find something to be offended (or simply perplexed) by, if we look hard enough.


----------



## SVT (Dec 8, 2009)

sipp100 said:


> I don't want to be quick to infer anything about anyone, but if you made a list like this:
> 
> 1.
> 2.
> ...



I didn't look hard at all but neither am I offended.


----------



## claudia05 (Dec 8, 2009)

sipp100 said:


> I don't want to be quick to infer anything about anyone, but if you made a list like this:
> 
> 1.
> 2.
> ...


Andre's system measures degree/tightness of texture, not place. 4 is highest.


----------



## chrisanddonniesmommy (Dec 8, 2009)

CurlTalk said:


> i think she was referring to posters without type3 hair



Yeah, that's what I meant. Thanks!! 

If they don't have it, they want it or somehow convince themselves they have it. It's strange.


----------



## ChristmasCarol (Dec 8, 2009)

SVT said:


> I didn't look hard at all but neither am I offended.


 
I was only trying to see BOTH sides of the whole higher/lower 3/4 thing. But I guess it didn't come out right.


----------



## Bene (Dec 8, 2009)

sipp100 said:


> I don't want to be quick to infer anything about anyone, but if you made a list like this:
> 
> 1.
> 2.
> ...




Thank you, this is how I visualize the list. Well, ALL lists. I shouldn't even be in this thread. I might get stoned to death for being a 3


----------



## happylife (Dec 8, 2009)

sipp100 said:


> I don't want to be quick to infer anything about anyone, but if you made a list like this:
> 
> 1.
> 2.
> ...



Yep and that's a fine art that's hard to do without looking too sensitive or nuckin futs.


----------



## ChristmasCarol (Dec 8, 2009)

claudia05 said:


> Adrea's system measures degree/tightness of texture, not place. 4 is highest.


 
Yes, that's true. But even members are not familiar with the intricacies of hairtyping and most people think of things with the #s 1-10 as a "list" of sorts.  Just tryin' to give everyone the benefit of the doubt...


----------



## Taina (Dec 8, 2009)

LadyRaider said:


> *I'm just asking. Could the same be said for people with long hair vs. us short haired people? I see more oooh and ahhh over long hair than hair texture. Hair texture-- who cares? If you don't like yours relax it.
> *
> I don't have a dog in the hunt. People tell me I can't tell my hair texture until I cut off my relaxed ends which I'm not doing for a while, so I have no idea what mine is. My momma said I had good hair though.  ETA: And if everyone's momma had told them the same thing, we'd all be better off.


Totally agree with the bold. I've seen ppl that have beautiful, but yet short hair showing her beautiful hair in pictures and just a few pays attention to them, it does not matter hair type, and lots of TY to ppl with not that breath-taking hair, but longer ....

So, i have to say we do ALWAYS do the same, some with the hair type, some with the lenght.


----------



## Pompous Blue (Dec 8, 2009)

No matter which way you write it, 3 is always lower than 4.

No sensitivity. Just reality.


----------



## Rain20 (Dec 8, 2009)

I've seen all hair types get love on this board. People have their preferences but overall long healthy hair wins on this board. It doesnt have to be about not accepting your roots. Mwedzi has beautiful hair and so does CelinaStarr. I think we can admire more than one hair type.


----------



## Pretty Star (Dec 9, 2009)

dynamic1 said:


> How does one know someone is "lying" about their texture and not just "mistaken" about their texture.


 

You can't know for sure if the person is lying or mistaken. However, I can tell you that I see a very visible difference in the curl pattern of say a type 3A vs. a type 4B. I would think the mistaken person can see that difference as well.


----------



## ChristmasCarol (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> Thank you, this is how I visualize the list. Well, ALL lists. I shouldn't even be in this thread. I might get stoned to death for being a 3


 
Girl, stop your lyin', you know you ain't no "3".


----------



## claudia05 (Dec 9, 2009)

Rain20 said:


> I've seen all hair types get love on this board. People have their preferences but overall long healthy hair wins on this board. It doesnt have to be about not accepting your roots. Mwedzi has beautiful hair and so does CelinaStarr. I think we can admire more than one hair type.


Yeah we do a pretty good job. Better than IRL certainly...


----------



## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

sipp100 said:


> Girl, stop your lyin', you know you ain't no "3".




I knew that would happen


----------



## PerplexingComplex (Dec 9, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> Do you feel some people will place extra emphasis on letting you know that their is a "3a or 3b or the elusive 3c" when you haven't even asked for that information?
> 
> Never had anyone do that.  I probably wouldn't care anyway.  Maybe they were saying something about their hair care regime and felt saying their hair type was necessary.
> 
> Or even lie about the TRUE textures of their hair to fit into a certain "Club" How do you feel about the issue?? Thoughts?



I honestly do not notice that on this board.  I see 3s claiming 4, but that's probably because they maybe confused and don't want to be considered a liar.  A higher texture is a safer bet.

I really don't care.  Everyone has a hair preference.  My favorite hair type is thick 3C, but I know that's not my hair type.  Not even close.


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

Rain20 said:


> I've seen all hair types get love on this board. People have their preferences but overall long healthy hair wins on this board. It doesnt have to be about not accepting your roots. Mwedzi has beautiful hair and so does CelinaStarr. I think we can admire more than one hair type.



I agree, lots of times long healthy hair is what gets many drooling. Imo its only fitting as this is not the short hair care forum....however,  many of the tips you gather here can be slanted either to long or short hair.


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

*This is the OLD ruler test actually.* Frankly, OP your question was a loaded one. It assumes that it's the "Andre 3" people who are so fixated on hair texture and that they are the ones who volunteer this info more readily than "Andre 4 people". I don't see this at all on *this* site. If anything, people are *ASKED* what their hair type is, frequently...much too frequently. Then when they answer, folks spend precious time debating whether or not they're telling the truth . *If you are an "Andre 3", should you lie to make others feel comfortable?* I'm starting to think you really must if you want some peace! 

Much of this emphasis on texture is coming from the fact that it seems half our board is suddenly going natural. *Given that so many BW have no real practical knowledge of their hair and its texture, I suspect many secretly hope they will have a hair type that they end up not having. *Once they have their hopes dashed and fears confirmed, many simply get very passive-aggressive about the matter. Either they LOUDLY tout their texture over others or they spend too much time worrying about other folks' textures....both of these camps spend inordinate amount of time/money/thought trying to change THEIR texture or being in denial about it. This isn't about anyone else, it's about them. I understand people have their insecurities, but that doesn't give them the right to inflict or project them on to other people. They need to accept themselves before demanding that others do.

Of late, I'm starting to wonder if people w/ looser textures, relaxed heads, and even mixed race people of any sort are welcome here? The level of bigotry and angry tone (both overt and covert) is just stunning to watch. I've been a member here too long and I'm too observant to not have noticed it and have a good idea of why it's happening. I don't have a hair texture bias either...y'all don't know mine because I'm not telling. I don't buy into Andre's system anyhow. The Andre system is too flawed to take seriously as a accurate way to describe hair for any useful purposes IMHO, but mostly people are talking about aesthetics anyway.

Rulers work both ways folks.  People sit up and openly dismiss people w/ a texture different than their own, so hurt feels go in all directions, not just one.

As for there being a long vs short hair bias, well this is The *LONG HAIR* Care Forum...you knew that when you signed on.  That dog don't hunt. Some folks will find anything to get a badditude about.


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 9, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> I dont notice people lying about being a 3 something. *But I do notice people claiming 4b and then I see a pic and they are clearly in the 3's*. I think a lot of people calling themselves type 4 are really type 3's. It's not a big deal just something I notice a lot.


 I never understood this, but it`s out of control. I wonder what the reason is. People say they don't get the hair typing thing, but I mean, it's pretty straight forward.


----------



## Skiggle (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> *Of late, I'm starting to wonder if people w/ looser textures, relaxed heads, and even mixed race people of any sort are welcome here? *The level of bigotry and angry tone (both overt and covert) is just stunning to watch. I've been a member here too long and I'm too observant to not have noticed it and have a good idea of why it's happening. I don't have a hair texture bias either...y'all don't know mine because I'm not telling. I don't buy into Andre's system anyhow. The Andre system is too flawed to take seriously as a accurate way to describe hair for any useful purposes IMHO, but mostly people are talking about aesthetics anyway.



That in the bold stood out to me.
I *honestly* believe everyone is welcome here.
I just think that outside the world of LHCF,
people wouldn't embrace the whole tighter curl
pattern. Its a different world *once I log off.
I just wish I can get the same love/appreciation*
that the looser texture does.  That is the only
thing I'm envious about.. *sigh*


----------



## yeswecan (Dec 9, 2009)

hey ppl look at the pictures in the LHCF banner at the top of every page there are four at a time and they change to acknowledge variety.


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> *This is the OLD ruler test actually.* Frankly, OP your question was a loaded one. It assumes that it's the "Andre 3" people who are so fixated on hair texture and that they are the ones who volunteer this info more readily than "Andre 4 people". I don't see this at all on *this* site. If anything, people are *ASKED* what their hair type is, frequently...much too frequently. Then when they answer, folks spend precious time debating whether or not they're telling the truth . *If you are an "Andre 3", should you lie to make others feel comfortable?* I'm starting to think you really must if you want some peace!
> 
> Much of this emphasis on texture is coming from the fact that it seems half our board is suddenly going natural. *Given that so many BW have no real practical knowledge of their hair and its texture, I suspect many secretly hope they will have a hair type that they end up not having. *Once they have their hopes dashed and fears confirmed, many simply get very passive-aggressive about the matter. Either they LOUDLY tout their texture over others or they spend too much time worrying about other folks' textures....both of these camps spend inordinate amount of time/money/thought trying to change THEIR texture or being in denial about it. This isn't about anyone else, it's about them. I understand people have their insecurities, but that doesn't give them the right to inflict or project them on to other people. They need to accept themselves before demanding that others do.
> 
> ...



Spoken poetry. Dead on it.


----------



## Almaz (Dec 9, 2009)

Wow that is all I have to say





happylife said:


> jamaraa said:
> 
> 
> > *This is the OLD ruler test actually.* Frankly, OP your question was a loaded one. It assumes that it's the "Andre 3" people who are so fixated on hair texture and that they are the ones who volunteer this info more readily than "Andre 4 people". I don't see this at all on *this* site. If anything, people are *ASKED* what their hair type is, frequently...much too frequently. Then when they answer, folks spend precious time debating whether or not they're telling the truth . *If you are an "Andre 3", should you lie to make others feel comfortable?* I'm starting to think you really must if you want some peace!
> ...


----------



## dynamic1 (Dec 9, 2009)

Pretty Star said:


> You can't know for sure if the person is lying or mistaken. However, I can tell you that I see a very visible difference in the curl pattern of say a type 3A vs. a type 4B. I would think the mistaken person can see that difference as well.


 
I have never seen someone with no visible curl pattern (coils or ringlets) or with a z pattern proclaim their "hair is very loosely curled like Julia Roberts or Susan Sarandon..very shiny with big curls"

Feel free to PM me with an example (eta: I have never seen a 4b claim 3a, send me a link, post, etc.).  I have been on these boards for a long time.


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Skiggle said:


> That in the bold stood out to me.
> I *honestly* believe everyone is welcome here.
> I just think that outside the world of LHCF,
> people wouldn't embrace the whole tighter curl
> ...


 
Based on some incidents I've seen of late, it's increasingly becoming clear that not all are welcome or at least as welcome as they may have been in the past.

Being envious of others will not help you. You need to love yourself 1st and foremost. I'm saying this because people have their biases and preferances, but you can't let that bother you because they will not change. I rarely see anyone w/ a texture like mine here or on the interwebz, but that's cool. I dig my hair and take good care of it. That's really all you can do.


----------



## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

dynamic1 said:


> I have never seen someone with no visible curl pattern (coils or ringlets) or with a z pattern proclaim their "hair is very loosely curled like Julia Roberts or Susan Sarandon..very shiny with big curls"
> 
> Feel free to PM me with an example.  I have been on these boards for a long time.







*sends pm*


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 9, 2009)

ceebee3 said:


> I totally understand getting rid of damaged hair but to cut your healthy hair because it's longer and appears thinner than the restof your hair is crazy.
> 
> The only time I would consider that is to maintain my goal length, not while I'm trying to get there.


----------



## coconow2007 (Dec 9, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> I have noticed lately a lot of people focusing extensively on hair type. To me it isn't that serious and never will be. However for many others it's something that makes them better than everybody else. When my mother was in Jack and Jill the paper bag test was something VERY real and in order to be apart of the group you should pass it  Do you feel some people will place extra emphasis on letting you know that their is a "3a or 3b or the elusive 3c" when you haven't even asked for that information? Or even lie about the TRUE textures of their hair to fit into a certain "Club" How do you feel about the issue?? Thoughts?


 
I would like to think that all of us on LHCF are beyond that.  I think we all seek similar goals and those are to grow healthy hair to a length that makes us satisfied whether its relaxed, natural, or somewhere in between - regardless of texture.


----------



## MA2010 (Dec 9, 2009)

yeswecan said:


> hey ppl look at the pictures in the LHCF banner at the top of every page there are four at a time and they change to acknowledge variety.



 Every time I look up there I see the same four women?


----------



## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

MA2010 said:


> Every time I look up there I see the same four women?




Sometimes the one on the far right has the a fro with a headband, other times it's one with 2 high ponytail buns on either side of her head.


----------



## Almaz (Dec 9, 2009)

I thought we should be happy we all have hair to begin with no matter what texture. We all talk about our busted sisters we see on the bus train plane with chewed up hair and family members with jacked up hair practises saying that you have GOOD hair and that is why it is growing long. When in fact hair is good when it is healthy. We can't help with what we were born with hair wise but with proper care and not believing all the negative hype about Blacks womens hair it can be beautiful and healthy

That should be the main thing. Thank G-d you got some hair and being on here knowing what to do and what not to do 

In the words of Rodney King

Can't we all just get along


----------



## Pompous Blue (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> Sometimes the one on the far right has the a fro with a headband, other times it's one with 2 high ponytail buns on either side of her head.


Thanks! You're right!

I never noticed that before. Gotta pay closer attention!


----------



## BlackMasterPiece (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm a classic type 4a and when I started my first thread Making My LHCF Debut here this summer I was warmly welcomed and embraced and thanked 258 times it was really nice.

I think irl people will probably try to claim looser textures but I feel that on LHCF there is generally  more of a consciousness and the reverse happens. Very often I'll see people put 4a/b in their siggy when they obviously have loose curls you can see from five feet away. I asked a looser textured poster once why so many ladies intentionally do this and she said its because many of them associate type 4 with being black and want to identify themselves as such. So despite the obvious curls they claim 4. 

I came away with a better understanding but I still feel people should claim their _true _hair type and if they dont know specifically just use a general number like 3 or 4. I feel this is important because there are newbies who are starting from scratch in their knowledge of healthy hair care and are probably just being introduced to the typing system, when their hair cant make huge shiney curls and lay down with just some gel and a brush, then they're going to feel bad about their texture and feel it doesnt have as much potential, so I say to avoid confusion of someone that may be taking notes from you just claim your real type......... as Kurlee said, its really not that complex its really straightforward especially if you go by naturallycurly.com's typing page.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Dec 9, 2009)

Skiggle said:


> *I just wish I can get the same love/appreciation*
> that the looser texture does.



i have a looser curl pattern, yet i grew up with the whole "you have bad hair" complex as well...  the grass is always greener.  i used to wish at one point my hair was more straight to fit in with my family.  once i went to school i wished i had a tighter texture so that all the black girls would accept me.

i will say though, i've never felt discriminated against OR put on a pedestal here because of my hair type...  i dont have a eleventy-million thank yous or comments on my page or on my pictures...  half the time i'm rarely noticed in a thread (not in a bad way lol) 

IRL i get mixed reviews about my hair too.  yeah, i get the douche bags who talk to me cause "you got that good hair" :gag:  but i also have the jerks that feel the need to make rude side ways comments because of my hair.

i guess what i'm saying is that its human nature to point out the "different" and that will include the positive and the negative


----------



## Mizz Diamonds (Dec 9, 2009)

back in slavery times there was a fine toothed comb test to go with the brown paper bag test


----------



## claudia05 (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> *Of late, I'm starting to wonder if people w/ looser textures, relaxed heads, and even mixed race people of any sort are welcome here? The level of bigotry and angry tone (both overt and covert) is just stunning to watch.* I've been a member here too long and I'm too observant to not have noticed it and have a good idea of why it's happening. I don't have a hair texture bias either...y'all don't know mine because I'm not telling. I don't buy into Andre's system anyhow. The Andre system is too flawed to take seriously as a accurate way to describe hair for any useful purposes IMHO, but mostly people are talking about aesthetics anyway.


Yes, I think there is a love/ hate relationship with type 3 here. But most if not all of the most offensive comments are towards type 4s from other type 4s...


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

Yeah, I know we can all get along. Cali asked a fair but heck of a loaded question that's gonna get some polarized views/positions.

Still learning everyday from this board, and this question was good food for thought.


----------



## Taina (Dec 9, 2009)

Now i want to know what is the paper bag test? sorry for the ignorance ._.


----------



## Pompous Blue (Dec 9, 2009)

Taina said:


> Now i want to know what is the paper bag test? sorry for the ignorance ._.


Your skin color is compared to the color of a brown paper bag. If your skin is darker than the paper bag, then you don't "pass the test" and, therefore, is not accepted in that social setting or group.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Dec 9, 2009)

Taina said:


> Now i want to know what is the paper bag test? sorry for the ignorance ._.



people would put a brown paper bag up to you, if you're the same shade or lighter than you were better.  if darker you were lesser than


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Dec 9, 2009)

dag!!! i type too slow lol


----------



## pookaloo83 (Dec 9, 2009)

What's the brown paper bag test?


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

All this hair typing is for the birds anyway. Just cuz your hair fits some number on a chart doesn't mean that you can simply follow the chart and get good results (or someone's reggie, for that matter). Most BW/black biracials know fully well they have African textured hair w/o the alphabet soup krapola, so much of this really is about fine tuning artificial separations. How many people here have tried what a "hair twin" does w/ disasterous results on their own heads? *Folks need to start thinking for themselves and quit being lazy about doing what's best for you. Why hand Andre walker or someone else all that power anyway?* 

Sometimes the reason a member doesn't "get love" isn't about their hair texture at all, but what they do (or don't do) w/ their hair. *How many folks post pics they really shouldn't if they want a positive response? If your hair looks busted, it's not a texture issue but a busted issue. A little self-awareness could do folks a world of good. *

Folks here will jump on a YTer or a celeb in a sec for having jacked hair, but suddenly get silent when a member rolls up looking a HAM? Well, why be "honest" sometimes and not others? That too is another common hypocrisy. Maybe if people were a bit more honest w/ members some of this hair texture mess would drop.


----------



## MA2010 (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> Sometimes the one on the far right has the a fro with a headband, other times it's one with 2 high ponytail buns on either side of her head.



Oh snap....lol.


----------



## Precious_1 (Dec 9, 2009)

poookie said:


> thick hair is another thing i noticed on this board. the general consensus is to immediately chop hair off where it's thin, so it'll grow in thick. but some people naturally have sparse or thin hair, & if they chop it, it'll just grow back thin.
> 
> that was my case, & the main reason why i never posted my length shots when i was APL.* my relaxed hair was thin & see-through due mostly to my fine hair & not poor hair care practices, & i remember reading a post about "how ugly thin hair is"  it was hurtful.*
> 
> ...


 
The above is why it took me three years to post a picture of the back of my head bc, of the hurtful comments on thin hair, my hair is naturally thin/fine. I have noticed the thanks "phenomenon" as well  oh well, i may never get that many thanks


----------



## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> All this hair typing is for the birds anyway. Just cuz your hair fits some number on a chart doesn't mean that you can simply follow the chart and get good results (or someone's reggie, for that matter). Most BW/black biracials know fully well they have African textured hair w/o the alphabet soup krapola, so much of this really is about time tuining artificial separations. How many people here have tried what a "hair twin" does w/ disasterous results on their own heads? Folks need to start thinking for themselves and quit being lazy about doing what's best for you. Why hand Andre walker or someone else all that power anyway?
> 
> Sometimes the reason a member doesn't "get love" isn't about their hair texture at all, but what they do (or don't do) w/ their hair. How many folks post pics they really shouldn't if they want a positive response? If your hair looks busted, it's not a texture issue but a busted issue. A little self-awareness could do folks a world of good.
> 
> *Folks here will jump on a YTer or a celeb in a sec for having jacked hair, but suddenly get silent when a member rolls up looking a HAM? Well, why be "honest" sometimes and not others? That too is another common hypocrisy. Maybe if people were a bit more honest w/ members some of this hair texture mess would drop.*



No one wants to be that person who to tell someone "Your hair looks stupid". Especially here? People come back here on a regular basis and no one wants to be branded as that person who tries to make other people feel bad about their own hair. 

On the other hand, the YouTube person isn't here. It's like how we'll criticize a celebrity vs. someone we see every day. I may make fun of Tammy Faye Baker's make-up, but I wouldn't say those things to someone I have to interact with every day. 

Maybe it's cowardice? I don't know. I'm certainly guilty of it. I know for a fact that if I showed up one day and told someone "Dang, that twist out looks busted" I'll get attacked for that. It's best to just keep quiet on certain things.


----------



## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

MA2010 said:


> Oh snap....lol.




Also, the second one from the left, either she had a big chop, or she installed a really nice weave?


Yes, I sit around thinking about these things


----------



## ChristmasCarol (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> Also, the second one from the left, either she had a big chop, or she installed a really nice weave?
> 
> 
> Yes, I sit around thinking about these things


 
I thought her hair was pinned back...no, you're not the only one who thinks about stuff like that.


----------



## MA2010 (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> *Also, the second one from the left, either she had a big chop, or she installed a really nice weave?*
> 
> Yes, I sit around thinking about these things



That's an install girl......


----------



## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

MA2010 said:


> That's an install girl......





Pfft, I can't tell the difference. You sure it's not a really nice lace-front? 


The other day, I had to look up what a half-wig was, just so I could know what everyone was talking about.


----------



## BayAreaDream (Dec 9, 2009)

When reading a thread or post i pay more attention to the ones who have a similar hair texture than me (type 4). I know i'll be able to learn or take some thing new from that post. The others (type 3) i read through but don't pay too much attention to them. So i prefer to know and don't mind when woman list hair type.


----------



## claudia05 (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> No one wants to be that person who to tell someone "Your hair looks stupid". Especially here? People come back here on a regular basis and no one wants to be branded as that person who tries to make other people feel bad about their own hair.
> 
> On the other hand, the YouTube person isn't here. It's like how we'll criticize a celebrity vs. someone we see every day. I may make fun of Tammy Faye Baker's make-up, but I wouldn't say those things to someone I have to interact with every day.
> 
> *Maybe it's cowardice? I don't know. I'm certainly guilty of it.* I know for a fact that if I showed up one day and told someone "Dang, that twist out looks busted" I'll get attacked for that. It's best to just keep quiet on certain things.


I think of it as having tact. If the poster asks for brutal honesty that's one thing, but I don't want to unintentionally hurt someone's feelings ...


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> No one wants to be that person who to tell someone "Your hair looks stupid". Especially here? People come back here on a regular basis and no one wants to be branded as that person who tries to make other people feel bad about their own hair.
> 
> On the other hand, the YouTube person isn't here. It's like how we'll criticize a celebrity vs. someone we see every day. I may make fun of Tammy Faye Baker's make-up, but I wouldn't say those things to someone I have to interact with every day.
> 
> Maybe it's cowardice? I don't know. I'm certainly guilty of it. I know for a fact that if I showed up one day and told someone "Dang, that twist out looks busted" I'll get attacked for that. It's best to just keep quiet on certain things.


 
It's *both* cowardly and hypocritical. You don't know who's reading this stuff. *This site is on the open interwebz for any and all to see. *Just cuz they don't post doesn't mean they don't see it. If people are unwilling to say something to a member (ie to her "face") and will do so about a non member "behind their back".....why should the member assume you're telling the truth at all when you compliment them?  People sometimes forget that you have an "audience" that's watching. If the open media got ahold of this site and put it on the Oprah show, for example, just how would much of this stuff look when exposed to the light of day? If people felt bad about Chris Rock, they'd dig a hole and hide if some of this stuff went wide! 

Non members are people too, we shouldn't forget. If you wouldn't say a thing to their face or on their YT channel, one shouldn't fool themselves that those people don't find out anyway. The target hit home even if they weren't here! 

IMHO that's where *some* of the insecurities about texture are coming from. Think other members don't notice stuff?  How much of the compliments are real and how much of the silence is real? Since every site has it's "political correctness" how much fawning is just conforming to the tone of the site? This all helps keep people in an insecure lather....if they let it!


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

Precious_1 said:


> The above is why it took me three years to post a picture of the back of my head bc, of the hurtful comments on thin hair, my hair is naturally thin/fine. I have noticed the thanks "phenomenon" as well  oh well, i may never get that many thanks


 
that's reading kinda deep into it imo. But my hair is thin and I never thought twice about posting pics......I'm gonna use every penny of my 6 fiddy and get as much help with my hair as I can so I can reach my goals.  

Very sorry to hear about you feeling hurt behind other posts.


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## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

claudia05 said:


> I think of it as having tact. If the poster asks for brutal honesty that's one thing, but I don't want to unintentionally hurt someone's feelings ...


 
 Tact is the exercise of discretion. You don't just turn it on and off....after all, we are all strangers to each other, right? You're either tactful the vast majority of the time or not, IMHO. Hey, we're all human!  

 If you are indiscreet in 59 posts and then decide to be tactful in 2 posts, well....people are not so unobservant, let's just say.


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## MrsAriannaAmbers (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> Based on some incidents I've seen of late, it's increasingly becoming clear that not all are welcome or at least as welcome as they may have been in the past.
> 
> *Being envious of others will not help you. You need to love yourself 1st and foremost. I'm saying this because people have their biases and preferances, but you can't let that bother you because they will not change. *I rarely see anyone w/ a texture like mine here or on the interwebz, but that's cool. I dig my hair and take good care of it. That's really all you can do.



*Can I get an AMEN on the Bolded from Jamarra because its so true...*


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## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> It's *both* cowardly and hypocritical. You don't know who's reading this stuff. *This site is on the open interwebz for any and all to see. *Just cuz they don't post doesn't mean they don't see it. If people are unwilling to say something to a member (ie to her "face") and will do so about a non member "behind their back".....why should the member assume you're telling the truth at all when you compliment them?  People sometimes forget that you have an "audience" that's watching. If the open media got ahold of this site and ut it on the Oprah show, for example, just how would much of this stuff look when exposed to the light of day? If people felt bad about Chris Rock, they'd dig a hole and hide if some of this stuff went wide!
> 
> Non members are people too, we shouldn't forget. If you wouldn't say a thing to their face or on their YT channel, one shouldn't fool themselves that those people don't find out anyway. The target hit home even if they weren't here!
> 
> IMHO that's where *some* of the insecurities about texture are coming from. Think other members don't notice stuff?  How much of the compliments are real and how much of the silence is real? Since every site has it's "political correctness" how much fawning is just conforming to the tone of the site? This all helps keep people in an insecure lather....if they let it!




You're right, but isn't that how people are in general? I mean, look at the news. Someone is always saying something about someone who isn't there, and yes it's behind their backs. I'm not saying it's right or ok to do just because it's a common practice.


I was guilty of joining in on that thread where that girl was showing how to straighten hair (normally, I don't, especially in cases where someone's hair practice doesn't apply to me). I did my best to not insult *her*, but I was incredibly critical of her practices (it kind of did get out of line with the contact lens fiasco ). It never occurred to me to go to her youtube page and tell her that her hair is damaged, because the conversation about it was here, not there. This site is about healthy hair care, I would've been a complete d*ckhead to go to her page and start spouting off about healthy hair practices, especially if she's not very concerned about it. I also know that people with that hair type lurk here, and if I could save one person that amount of damage, I was going to take the opportunity to point it out. And in general, I keep my mouth shut on lots of people's heads. But really, I took offense to someone trying to teach something, only to lead people down the wrong path.

Anyway, there's a time and a place for all sorts of discussions. Here is the healthy hair place. It's kind of tactless to go to someone's own page, and criticize them in front of their audience. I think that would've been the "hater" thing to do.


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## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

*Bene* I'm not concerned w/ "people in general". I'm talking specifics and specificaly this site. People at this site always wanna use "society' to justify some things and then the same "society' to blame for others. Responsibility is always in someone else's court 

Lemme make it plain and simple. Many BW seem to be concerned (overly, IMHO) w/ what "others" think. "Others" include everybody from White folks and "other races", to Black men, to other Black women. People constantly complain of being stereotyped. Am I wrong? I see this everyday that I'm here and I wonder why folks care so much about what they can't control and ignore what they can control? 

If this is a concern of yours (English "you" understood), then be aware of adding fuel to the fire and don't do it. *If you don't want people to think BW are jealous, spiteful, etc over "others" about hair and skin issues, then DON'T behave like you are. One can't cry foul when others say it cuz they have proof was given them.* Folks seem to think they can DEMAND love and respect from the general masses, let not give it to themselves and others. 

In short, all this hypocrisy and jealousy is making the problems worse both on site and even off it. It's needlessly feeding insecurities. *I've been at the rodeo too long to say otherwise.*


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## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> It's *both* cowardly and hypocritical. You don't know who's reading this stuff. *This site is on the open interwebz for any and all to see. *Just cuz they don't post doesn't mean they don't see it. If people are unwilling to say something to a member (ie to her "face") and will do so about a non member "behind their back".....why should the member assume you're telling the truth at all when you compliment them?  People sometimes forget that you have an "audience" that's watching. If the open media got ahold of this site and put it on the Oprah show, for example, just how would much of this stuff look when exposed to the light of day? If people felt bad about Chris Rock, they'd dig a hole and hide if some of this stuff went wide!
> 
> Non members are people too, we shouldn't forget. If you wouldn't say a thing to their face or on their YT channel, one shouldn't fool themselves that those people don't find out anyway. The target hit home even if they weren't here!
> 
> IMHO that's where *some* of the insecurities about texture are coming from. Think other members don't notice stuff?  How much of the compliments are real and how much of the silence is real? Since every site has it's "political correctness" how much fawning is just conforming to the tone of the site? This all helps keep people in an insecure lather....if they let it!


I'm so sick of the bullsheeet thats been going on here .....*Emotional Response* I know......but I am!!!!!

we have lost so many long hairs, and long term members,  and many more are signing up to bone out, all that will be left is a bunch of knuckle head know it all's tripped up on stupid ish! and that will be the forum


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## MrsHdrLe (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> *No one wants to be that person who to tell someone "Your hair looks stupid". Especially here? People come back here on a regular basis and no one wants to be branded as that person who tries to make other people feel bad about their own hair. *
> 
> On the other hand, the YouTube person isn't here. It's like how we'll criticize a celebrity vs. someone we see every day. I may make fun of Tammy Faye Baker's make-up, but I wouldn't say those things to someone I have to interact with every day.
> 
> Maybe it's cowardice? I don't know. I'm certainly guilty of it. I know for a fact that if I showed up one day and told someone "Dang, that twist out looks busted" I'll get attacked for that. *It's best to just keep quiet on certain things.*


I just figure if I get 500 looks and 3 thanks/replies my hair wasn't as cute as *I *thought.


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## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

angiet1985 said:


> [/B]I just figure if I get 500 looks and 3 thanks/replies my hair wasn't as cute as *I *thought.



Well, *I* think your hair is cute. And that's all that matters


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## MizzBrit (Dec 9, 2009)

honestly, i don't care what people think of my hair ..and i wont let society bring my self esteem down due to my hair type not fitting their standards.
i love my hair.i have alot more confidence when i wear it out.and at the end of the day, thats all that matters...is what *i think* of my own.


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## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> I'm so sick of the bullsheeet thats been going on here .....*Emotional Response* I know......but I am!!!!!
> 
> *we have lost so many long hairs, and long term members, and many more are signing up to bone out,* all that will be left is a bunch of knuckle head know it all's tripped up on stupid ish! and that will be the forum


 
*Bang on right.* I personally know several members who have BEAUTIFUL hair and tons of advice that simply refuse to engage anymore. They can't take the drama and perpetually offended vibe. What sort of info is being lost, well that's anyone's guess?! It's not just "oldheads" either, but newbs too.  Now open season on YTers.

This forum was and is a great resource to learn to take care of your long hair, but the "well of long hair info" is actually drying up. I've seen threads seeking "roll calls" of folks and people simply don't say anything. I know there are tons of relaxed super longhaired members, tons of natural so called Andre 2s- 4s, brothers up in here, and the list goes on...stone silence tho they are still members/lurking. It's a shame.

The irony is that many members who folks think "moved on" are actually still members and active readers.  I really wish folks knew how much they're cutting off their nose to spite their faces w/ all this melodrama. Nobody wants to be picked apart because they have the "wrong UnPC" texture, for their skin color, etc. If they see that happening frequently to others, why should they assume it won't happen to them? *Few sane people want to put out a hand and pull back a nub!*


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## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> *This is the OLD ruler test actually.* Frankly, OP your question was a loaded one. It assumes that it's the "Andre 3" people who are so fixated on hair texture and that they are the ones who volunteer this info more readily than "Andre 4 people". I don't see this at all on *this* site. If anything, people are *ASKED* what their hair type is, frequently...much too frequently. Then when they answer, folks spend precious time debating whether or not they're telling the truth . *If you are an "Andre 3", should you lie to make others feel comfortable?* I'm starting to think you really must if you want some peace!
> 
> Much of this emphasis on texture is coming from the fact that it seems half our board is suddenly going natural. *Given that so many BW have no real practical knowledge of their hair and its texture, I suspect many secretly hope they will have a hair type that they end up not having. *Once they have their hopes dashed and fears confirmed, many simply get very passive-aggressive about the matter. Either they LOUDLY tout their texture over others or they spend too much time worrying about other folks' textures....both of these camps spend inordinate amount of time/money/thought trying to change THEIR texture or being in denial about it. This isn't about anyone else, it's about them. I understand people have their insecurities, but that doesn't give them the right to inflict or project them on to other people. They need to accept themselves before demanding that others do.
> 
> ...


WEEELLLLLLL!!!!!


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## Cali*Rocks (Dec 9, 2009)

Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it.


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## werenumber2 (Dec 9, 2009)

Mizz Diamonds said:


> back in slavery times there was a fine toothed comb test to go with the brown paper bag test


 

I don't know what they thought they were pulling with that one, given all the "straight off the Mayflower" white people who can't even get a fine tooth comb through their hair.

SLAVERY FAIL


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## whitedaisez (Dec 9, 2009)

well honestly, i think many loose textured haired pple here lie and claim a tighter texture to be accepted. here in dis forum pple also buy into de good/bad hair thing where if ur hair texture is loose but long and healthy, dey think oh u av dat good hair u prolly dint av 2 wrk too hard to achieve results. 

But  if u av long healthy hair with a tight texture, pple think it must have been more of a challenge for u to achieve good results since u av bad/ difficult hair; so they say BRAVO BRAVO u wrked so hard u deserve it, u've broken de 'black women cant grow hair' stereotype. 

since those with loose textures are now left out, they seek more praise and glory for their hardwrk by claiming type 4 when dey r clearly a 3a! dis way pple will recognize their efforts since their hair would now be 'categorized' as bad/difficult. but dats my opinion anyways, dont stone me PLEASE


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## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

*werenumber2* Actually "the comb test" and others like it (see Blue Vein Society and Brown Men groups) came more from certain secret societies and groups based in  Free Colored communities and their descendants. It really dates from the *end of slavery* as a way to distinguish between Blacks and Colored, if you will, once freedome came to everyone. It was a way to work past the "eyeball test".


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## Newlife2011 (Dec 9, 2009)

IA with those who say people with looser textures seem to be unwelcomed. I cant tell you how many predominately white,indian,hispanic websites I have seen reference longhaircareforum.com for hair care tips. Why dont I see any of them POSTING here? Please ask yourselves.


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## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

whitedaisez said:


> well honestly, i think many loose textured haired pple here lie and claim a tighter texture to be accepted. here in dis forum pple also buy into de good/bad hair thing where if ur hair texture is loose but long and healthy, dey think oh u av dat good hair u prolly dint av 2 wrk too hard to achieve results.
> 
> But  if u av long healthy hair with a tight texture, pple think it must have been more of a challenge for u to achieve good results since u av bad/ difficult hair; so they say BRAVO BRAVO u wrked so hard u deserve it, u've broken de 'black women cant grow hair' stereotype.
> 
> since those with loose textures are now left out, they seek more praise and glory for their hardwrk by *claiming type 4 when dey r clearly a 3a*! dis way pple will recognize their efforts since their hair would now be 'categorized' as bad/difficult. but dats my opinion anyways, dont stone me PLEASE




I've never seen this, but I have seen the exact opposite. I've seen some people who are clearly 4a talking about "I've got some 3b-3c in my nape/edges when it's wet..." I just kind of sit here like 


I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt though, because we all use different hair typing systems.


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## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> I've never seen this, but I have seen the exact opposite. I've seen some people who are clearly 4a talking about "I've got some 3b-3c in my nape/edges when it's wet..." I just kind of sit here like
> 
> 
> I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt though, because we all use different hair typing systems.


It's not like it's impossible to have a different hair type on any place in your head.  If you dont see pics of their napes up close and feel it and see how it behaves then how do you know they are lying? 

All this worrying about what anothers hair type is and what they claim it is or even what they do with their hair , analyzing it , obsessing over it , is just wild to me

worry about your own hair


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## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> It's not like it's impossible to have a different hair type on any place in your head.  If you dont see pics of their napes up close and feel it and see how it behaves then how do you know they are lying?
> 
> All this worrying about what anothers hair type is and what they claim it is or even what they do with their hair , analyzing it , obsessing over it , is just wild to me
> 
> worry about your own hair




True. I'm talking about up close pics of napes and edges. It just doesn't look like what they claim. Of course, since there are a million hair typing systems out there, I'm not worrying about someone else's hair.


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## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> True. I'm talking about up close pics of napes and edges. It just doesn't look like what they claim. Of course, since there are a million hair typing systems out there, *I'm not worrying about someone else's hair. *


well if you say so Bene

I beg to differ from a recent experience, but whatever

who cares what their real hair type is, it doesnt change yours or what you got to deal with with your own hair

I mean really,  who cares?


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## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Newlife2011 said:


> IA with those who say people with looser textures seem to be unwelcomed. I cant tell you how many predominately white,indian,hispanic websites I have seen reference longhaircareforum.com for hair care tips. Why dont I see any of them POSTING here? Please ask yourselves.


 
 This forum is known far and wide...it is on the open net and comes up 1st many times on searches hair related. We have a HUGE audience folks!  

We've had WW and Asian women w/ mixed kids here in the past, but well.... that was then, this is now.  Black newbs come and constantly say "please don't shoot me" so what chance does a WW or anyone else have to NOT get completely LIT UP?!


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## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> well if you say so Bene
> 
> I beg to differ from a recent experience, but whatever
> 
> ...




You're right, it doesn't change anything. But it's sort of like someone who's a size 16, claiming they wear a size 10. It doesn't change anything, but somewhere in the back of my head, I'm like . There's what is real, and there's what the person is in denial about. I would never say anything about it, but the gut reaction is still there, and I would be a liar if I said it weren't.


If you're speaking about my participation in a particular video thread, I thought I'd made it clear that I was criticizing unhealthy hair practices that were being spread under the guise of preventing/fixing damage; as well as the APL to WL in 2 months. It's unethical to make certain claims that will lead people down the wrong path. If that's what you're referring to, then yes, I do care because I wasn't criticizing her *hair type*, especially since it's my own. Aside from that, I haven't spoken negatively about anyone's hair type or practices, anywhere on this board.


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## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> You're right, it doesn't change anything. But it's sort of like someone who's a size 16, claiming they wear a size 10. It doesn't change anything, but somewhere in the back of my head, I'm like . There's what is real, and there's what the person is in denial about. I would never say anything about it, but the gut reaction is still there, and I would be a liar if I said it weren't.
> 
> 
> If you're speaking about my participation in a particular video thread, I thought I'd made it clear that I was criticizing unhealthy hair practices that were being spread under the guise of preventing/fixing damage; as well as the APL to WL in 2 months. It's unethical to make certain claims that will lead people down the wrong path. If that's what you're referring to, then yes, I do care because I wasn't criticizing her *hair type*, especially since it's my own. Aside from that, I haven't spoken negatively about anyone's hair type or practices, anywhere on this board.


yeah I KNOW we heard it already , how wrong she was over and over and how it pissed you off and disturbed you over and over again, no need to repeat again


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## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> yeah I KNOW we heard it already , how wrong she was over and over and how it pissed you off and disturbed you over and over again, no need to repeat again




You brought it up as if I did something I didn't. When people stop accusing me of something I haven't done, then I will be more than happy to stop talking about it 




Irresistible said:


> well if you say so Bene
> 
> *I beg to differ from a recent experience, but whatever*



^^^^

By this comment, if you're speaking about some *other* thing I've said, I'd be more than happy if you would show me where so that I may apologize profusely, both privately and publicly, to whoever I've insulted and make a note to not do it again. But since I can't think of anything else, I'll be forced to assume you're talking of that one incident.


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## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Here's we go again ...y'all are arguing about other people's hair. :crazy: What use is it...what good does it do? You're judging by *PICS* anyway. Andre sho jacked us hard w/ his "system".  

Nobody OWES anybody jack....you don't HAVE to tell your texture or anything and even if you do, you may live to regret it. Folks  and  over something you can't even verify for yourself. Well, there's something amiss here, seriously. 

Well I guess a serious discussion just went adlock:....


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## Vintageglam (Dec 9, 2009)

This texture thing along with the paper bag test has been going on forever and a day. I am sure this has been mentioned before but it all goes back to slavery (house v field Negro distinction).  The sad thing is though that we as a community continue to perpetuate this slave mentality.

Unfortunately LHCF is not immune to this phenomenon and sadly yes there are women here who aim to "upgrade" their texture so to speak.  When this happens I just leave that post because it truly is very sad.  And yes the all illusive 3C's do get more love when they show their hair porn.  Don't get me wrong I am not hating but we all sat here and criticise the "Good hair" film by Chris Rock and then do the same thing ourselves (not even subconsciously I might add).

Me personally I have never wished to be anything else but the beautiful 4a/ 4b that I am.  In any case I was born and bred in Africa (before moving to Europe) so it would be both stupid and irrational of me to claim anything else. Never wanted to be lighter or curly hair (trust me the other Nigerian girls and school would have cussed that crap out of you).  

Its funny because as you get older you develop a greater appreciation and love for yourself.  I am now very proud of my naps and kinks.  I think instead of aspiring to what we can never be we should inspire our selves with the best we can be.  I started "stalking" Fotki's and have recently fallen in love with Sera et al's Fotki.  I just love the way that their hair is the best it can be, thick and strong in all its glory.  I think it is more healthy to aspire to a realistic role model. Ok so my hair may not get that thick but I know now that it can be that beautiful hence why I have recently decided to transition.    My reason for this (which I recently discussed with my fully supportive hubbie) was that I want to be an example to my daughter one day so that she can realise that whatever her hair texture it will be beautiful.

Just my two cents anyway.


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## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> You brought it up as if I did something I didn't. When people stop accusing me of something I haven't done, then I will be more than happy to stop talking about it


yeah I brought it up,  we all know you went all out the way to find her 'damaged' hair , in a lil spot , and how it bothered you so much.......

well the 'damage' is done now

don't matter 

btw you brought it up already yourself in this thread


----------



## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> yeah I brought it up,  we all know you went all out the way to find her 'damaged' hair , in a lil spot , and how it bothered you so much.......
> 
> well the 'damage' is done now
> 
> ...




But you brought it up again after we've moved on. I'm not allowed to defend my actions when they have been misinterpreted or have been taken out of context? 

You have every right to criticize me, just as I have the same right to disagree with your criticisms. It's only fair.


----------



## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

So, anyway.... 





stellagirl76 said:


> This texture thing along with the paper bag test has been going on forever and a day. I am sure this has been mentioned before but it all goes back to slavery (house v field Negro distinction).  The sad thing is though that we as a community continue to perpetuate this slave mentality.
> 
> Unfortunately LHCF is not immune to this phenomenon and sadly yes there are women here who aim to "upgrade" their texture so to speak.  When this happens I just leave that post because it truly is very sad.  And yes the all illusive 3C's do get more love when they show their hair porn.  Don't get me wrong I am not hating but we all sat here and criticise the "Good hair" film by Chris Rock and then do the same thing ourselves (not even subconsciously I might add).
> 
> ...




That's so true. I think as we get older, we become more concerned with our own comfort and what works for us. How many old ladies do you see in a moomoo and flipflops walking around, just as happy as they please? They care about how they feel in their own skin and not worry if it's "fashionable" I aspire to that


----------



## PearlyCurly (Dec 9, 2009)

Newlife2011 said:


> IA with those who say people with looser textures seem to be unwelcomed. I cant tell you how many predominately white,indian,hispanic websites I have seen reference longhaircareforum.com for hair care tips. Why dont I see any of them POSTING here? Please ask yourselves.




IA too, its like if anyone gives an compliment or attention to an type 3 hair, they are accused of not liking their own hair or not liking type 4 hair, and usually the ones who are complaining are the ones w/o type 3 hair

Every time i come on here i always see a thread(or someone in a thread) complaining of one hair type getting more attention then the other! But i just dont see it All i see is women with longer hair getting the attention(which i dont mind at all). If theres no complaints about someones texture it is about race, or someone not being black enough.

I may have only been on here for less then a year but i have yet to see a person with type 3 hair(or less) complain about someone with a tighter curl


----------



## AsianAfricanPrincess (Dec 9, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> I have noticed lately a lot of people focusing extensively on hair type. *To me it isn't that serious and never will be. However for many others it's something that makes them better than everybody else*. When my mother was in Jack and Jill the paper bag test was something VERY real and in order to be apart of the group you should pass it  Do you feel some people will place extra emphasis on letting you know that their is a "3a or 3b or the elusive 3c" when you haven't even asked for that information? Or even lie about the TRUE textures of their hair to fit into a certain "Club" How do you feel about the issue?? Thoughts?





I think that a lot of the wariness regarding "hair type" is mostly due to the *insecurity of those who fall outside of what THEY THEMSELVES feel are the "coveted hairtypes"*. A lot of this is projection.  

When I was natural, it would really tick me off that people were so determined to dissuade others from exchanging information based on their "hairtype".  Because if someone did not have my same hairtype, nine times out of ten her product information was pretty much useless to me and I wasted a lot of time and money taking a "we are the world" approach to my hair when I should have been exchanging information with women, in particular, who possessed the same hair type and hair behavior as myself.  

I've noticed that a lot of Black Americans take a lot of positions on pan-Africanism/Blackness *based on a fear of repeating the past* more so than being "pan-African/Blackness".  However, *I'd discourage folks from projecting their own fears and insecurities onto others*.  

I personally don't care what people think about any particular hairtype.  We could beat the subject to death (and we do...insecurities and wounds are repeatedly exposed on these hair forums to no avail).  I don't care if anyone thinks a hairtype is "prettier" or more "coveted" than others.  I seriously don't give a damn.  

Because when it comes down to it, my own sense of self is what's important.  And the world is an imperfect one.  Nothing in human behavior/thought surprises me (especially after reading many of the comments on forums, even this one).  

I feel women have every right (and SHOULD) exchange information regarding their hairtypes.  Why not??  Because some fear they won't feel "included"?  (What are we, school children...wait, some of us may be but I'm not.)  Because some may feel their hairtype is not as "highly regarded" as others?  Because, essentially, some wear their insecurities/sense of inferiority on their sleeves?  That's what it essentially comes down to.  

And I seriously haven't the time for anyone else's insecurities.  Black women spend more than anyone on hair products.  I've wasted a lot of money taking the advice of someone who doesn't have hair even close to mine because her hair reacts nothing like mine given the same product.  (Disclaimer: I understand this can even happen within identical hairtypes, too...however, the likelihood is heightened when there are two completely different hairtypes.)  It was infuriating.  

Exchanging info regarding hairtypes isn't about "being that serious".  It's about saving money (for me), time, and being empowered.  I still remember what it was like to go to the drugstore and have no options for my hairtype as a Black woman.  I felt powerless as if I had no options.  Now, not only do we have products for Black women, but we can even find products based on hairtype.  I love it.  

People would rather we *not* put any emphasis on hairtypes *so they can feel better about THEIR OWN, because THEY THEMSELVES feel insecure/inferior and project that onto others.*  And I don't agree with encouraging ignorance (e.g. a blind eye to the differences in hair textures/types) *to accommodate anyone's sense of inferiority.* 

And I'm saying this as a proud, diva, overwhelmingly 4'ish hairtype.


----------



## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

PearlyCurly said:


> IA too, its like if anyone gives an compliment or attention to an type 3 hair, they are accused of not liking their own hair or not liking type 4 hair, and usually the ones who are complaining are the ones w/o type 3 hair
> 
> Every time i come on here i always see a thread(or someone in a thread) complaining of one hair type getting more attention then the other! But i just dont see it All i see is women with longer hair getting the attention(which i dont mind at all). If theres no complaints about someones texture it is about race, or someone not being black enough.
> 
> I may have only been on here for less then a year but i have yet to see a person with type 3 hair(or less) complain about someone with a tighter curl


Thank you!!!


----------



## Maa Maa omo mti (Dec 9, 2009)

But isn't this really an issue about classifying one's hair. The current system is broken and confusing. Til we some how come up with a acceptable system we can't see eye to eye.


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## Bene (Dec 9, 2009)

Maa Maa omo mti said:


> But isn't this really an issue about classifying one's hair. The current system is broken and confusing. Til we some how come up with a acceptable system we can't see eye to eye.




I think the current systems are inherently flawed. A lot of it stems from *who* is making up the classifications. What I find that they tend to focus on one end of the spectrum, and lump all the types on the opposite end into one tiny category, ignoring the varieties and subtle distinctions.

It also depends on who is looking. One person's soft, silky, moisturized hair is another person's mushy mess. 


Obviously there are different textures and types, but I think someone needs to look carefully at ALL hair and then come up with a system that encompasses them all, instead of favoring one sort over another.




Preventing people from making value judgments about type is a whole other story though


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## sillygirl82 (Dec 9, 2009)

I really don't get the andre system so I stopped trying to guess. I think a lot of other people are confused by it too. At this point, I'm just trying to keep it healthy.  

Yes, I do feel some people value hair texture.  These are probably the same people that are colorstruck.  I wouldn't worry about it.  Take care of your hair and let people think what they want.


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## destine2grow (Dec 9, 2009)

This has been going on forever in the AA community. My mom always talks about who has good hair. Now that I am more educated. I have realized that all hair is good hair. I use to hate that after my kids were born she would  say who had a better texture of hair. I use to tell her then that all of my kids have good hair b/c I didn't want any of my kids to feel that something was wrong with them if they have a certain hair texture b/c hair does not define who we are!


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## supermodelsonya (Dec 9, 2009)

^^That's something a lot of people from older generations don't really understand. That was pretty much ingrained.


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## LaToya28 (Dec 9, 2009)

CurlTalk said:


> My thoughts on the issue: insecurity is a huge thing for AA women, especially b/c of the years and years and years of being told by the media's portrayal (look at black dolls' hair and skin, and even the new Disney princess' hair) of 'beautiful' that certain things about us just aren't desirable (hair texture and skin color being the most prevalent).
> Nearly all (if not all) women want to feel pretty, and loved, and it's only in human nature to assert the qualities we have that we feel will make us more accepted by others. That said, I don't find it surprising when people assert their looser hair texture, even when uncalled for, and frankly it doesn't bother me. We all want to be accepted and loved and wanted, and we all go about becoming so through whatever means we feel necessary/fit.


 
Excellent answer! In my own personal experience, and I'm going to be totally honest with you ladies, I am thinking of transitioning, but there are times when I see pictures of certain ladies with super kinky hair, and I'll think to myself "I don't want to be natural if my hair looks like that." Some of you may think it's ignorant or shallow of me, but I'm sorry it's the truth. I think that what CurlTalk said was right on point...my mom's hair is a 3 something and growing up I always wished that I had hair like hers and when I told her that I was thinking of going natural she disapproved because my hair would be "nappy." So perhaps that has influenced the way I feel. erplexed I'm trying to get over this and accept the way that God made me...I hate the terms "good" hair or "pretty" hair. I know that good hair is healthy hair, but old habits die hard I guess...


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## Anew (Dec 9, 2009)

BeetleBug said:


> I noticed the lying.


 This kinda caught me off guard, lol...

But I don't think its "new" either.


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## Ediese (Dec 9, 2009)

BeetleBug said:


> I noticed the lying.


 
I've noticed this too. I know a lot of people have different textures, and I'm not all up in their head checking it out. My thing is why do people claim 3c if they have a very small patch of it? It was very hard for me to find a regular 4a natural because everywhere I look people are 3c/4a..even if they might have four 3c strands. If the majority of your hair is 4a, why even mention 3c?..serious question.


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## Eritreladiee (Dec 9, 2009)

Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> i have a looser curl pattern, yet i grew up with the whole "you have bad hair" complex as well...  the grass is always greener.  i used to wish at one point my hair was more straight to fit in with my family.  once i went to school i wished i had a tighter texture so that all the black girls would accept me.
> 
> i will say though, i've never felt discriminated against OR put on a pedestal here because of my hair type...  i dont have a eleventy-million thank yous or comments on my page or on my pictures...  half the time i'm rarely noticed in a thread (not in a bad way lol)
> 
> ...



Thanks, you pretty much summed it up!


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## LadyRaider (Dec 9, 2009)

LaToya28 said:


> Excellent answer! In my own personal experience, and I'm going to be totally honest with you ladies, I am thinking of transitioning, but there are times when I see pictures of certain ladies with super kinky hair, and I'll think to myself "I don't want to be natural if my hair looks like that." Some of you may think it's ignorant or shallow of me, but I'm sorry it's the truth. I think that what CurlTalk said was right on point...my mom's hair is a 3 something and growing up I always wished that I had hair like hers and when I told her that I was thinking of going natural she disapproved because my hair would be "nappy." So perhaps that has influenced the way I feel. erplexed I'm trying to get over this and accept the way that God made me...I hate the terms "good" hair or "pretty" hair. I know that good hair is healthy hair, but old habits die hard I guess...



My situation is similar, LaToya. My mom had 2-something hair. I do not know how tell the difference between 3s and 4s but I definitely know my mom had silky, wavy hair.  It's hard to be a little girl and want to look like your mom. I'm with you. It kinda is tough NOT to desire the same hair and skin tone as your mom. 

She never told me I had anything but beautiful hair though, so I didn't have to worry about anyone in my family saying I'm "too nappy." In my family the only problem with my hair is that I "let those people do stuff to it." (salons, relaxers, etc.)

As for transitioning, I'm not worried about texture. I am worried about manageability. My mother DID talk about "can'tchadon'tcha" hair... Hair that is really hard to comb. If my hair becomes hard too hard for me to manage, I'm relaxing. 

I think we know enough about texture and how to bring out the best that I have seen people with all textures looking fabulous.


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## ceebee3 (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> *Bene* I'm not concerned w/ "people in general". I'm talking specifics and specificaly this site. People at this site always wanna use "society' to justify some things and then the same "society' to blame for others. Responsibility is always in someone else's court
> 
> Lemme make it plain and simple. Many BW seem to be concerned (overly, IMHO) w/ what "others" think. "Others" include everybody from White folks and "other races", to Black men, to other Black women. People constantly complain of being stereotyped. Am I wrong? I see this everyday that I'm here and I wonder why folks care so much about what they can't control and ignore what they can control?
> 
> ...


 



MizzBrit said:


> honestly, i don't care what people think of my hair ..and i wont let society bring my self esteem down due to my hair type not fitting their standards.
> i love my hair.i have alot more confidence when i wear it out.and at the end of the day, thats all that matters...is what *i think* of my own.


 

So on point!  Too many of you care way too much about what others think of YOUR hair. 

Stop worrying about what others think, you don't know these people and even if you did, who cares?


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## knt1229 (Dec 9, 2009)

PearlyCurly said:


> IA too, its like if anyone gives an compliment or attention to an type 3 hair, they are accused of not liking their own hair or not liking type 4 hair, and usually the ones who are complaining are the ones w/o type 3 hair
> 
> Every time i come on here i always see a thread(or someone in a thread) complaining of one hair type getting more attention then the other! But i just dont see it All i see is women with longer hair getting the attention(which i dont mind at all). If theres no complaints about someones texture it is about race, or someone not being black enough.
> 
> I may have only been on here for less then a year but i have yet to see a person with type 3 hair(or less) complain about someone with a tighter curl


 
But over in the thread for Type 2-3 hairstyles you said you were bored with looking at Type 4's and had a whole rant on Type 4's. http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=420240&page=31

Not trying to start drama but you are guilty of fanning the flames.


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## LadyRaider (Dec 9, 2009)

Who the heck is Andre for starting this stuff? Good grief.


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## I *Am* Not* My* Hair (Dec 9, 2009)

Yes, it is!!!  I think I go over board to make sure my hair gives the impression that it is super kinky, just because so many people are obsessed with being 3 something or another!  

Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder and can't nobody tell me my 4 D or F ain't platinum!!!


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## Neith (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> I've never seen this, but I have seen the exact opposite. I've seen some people who are clearly 4a talking about "I've got some 3b-3c in my nape/edges when it's wet..." I just kind of sit here like
> 
> 
> I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt though, because we all use different hair typing systems.




I have a few sprigs of looser and more fine hair in my nape, while most of my hair is by far a very coarse 4a.  I never claim 3c/4a... 95% of my hair is 4a.  

I just find those curls back there and most of my nape to be different from the rest of my hair and I do talk about it sometimes.

I don't see what's unbelievable about that.    Do you only have one texture?  Many people have way more pronounced texture differences in their hair.

It makes my hair "better" because I have a little smidge of a looser texture in the nape?  

I'm sorry that people think that way 

I run around here oblivious to all this junk until someone brings it up. 

I guess I won't bring it up anymore if it's offensive.  I wasn't even aware.


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## LiberianGirl (Dec 9, 2009)

Neith said:


> I have a few sprigs of looser and more fine hair in my nape, while most of my hair is by far a very coarse 4a. I never claim 3c/4a... 95% of my hair is 4a.
> 
> I just find those curls back there and most of my nape to be different from the rest of my hair and I do talk about it sometimes.
> 
> ...


 

There you go again Neith making too much sense. I wanted to comment on this but decided to leave it alone. A lot of people have multiple textures on their head. I have not seen an overabundance of people with only a patch of 3c hair claim to be 3c/4a. Most of the people I see who claim 3c/4a have a mixture of curl dimensions (corkscrew and coils) throughout their hair, as well as their hair behaves differently than people who strictly fall under a 3 or 4 category. 

I think these types of statements are more telling of the mentality of the person making the accusation rather than the person whom is trying to "pass their hair off" as something that it is not.


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## ClassicBeauty (Dec 9, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> I posted a picture here, and I was asked several times if I was TEXTLAXED even though I CLEARLY said I was NATURAL in the body of the post, and my siggy denotes my BC dates.
> 
> I'm darker, so it was a little weird, and made me wonder...but I'd never mentioned it; thanks for letting me vent. LOL.


 
I'm very light, and I've been asked the same question.erplexed At first I was slightly offended, but I let it go. My siggly CLEARLY said all natural.

That's probably why I don't post hair pictures anymore... I'm starting a challenge, so I'll have to post soon.


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## MekyakaKinkerbelle (Dec 9, 2009)

Very interesting topic.  I don't type my hair because it doesn't fall into any of the narrow categories (at least not to me).  People ask my hair type, and I always say 'kinky, curly, cottony, wavy".  The hair typing thing is just so subjective to me.

I always thought maybe people "shouted out their types" because they wanted to find people to identify with as far as routines and possibilities.  And I think that still may be the case...

But then again, I do see some folks claiming something that it clearly a fallacy and I see it as a grab for "the good stuff".  In that case, it really is sad.


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## AvaSpeaks (Dec 9, 2009)

I would like to say something that I have noticed about natural hair 

I have noticed that if your natural hair is a looser curl or a straighter texture, then more people like the brothers and even some sistas are more inclined to like your hair or you get more compliments on your natural hair. 

However, if you have the more Afro-Textured natural hair, the hair that is considered "kinky" or nappy or tightly coiled or whatever people call it, then you don't get as many compliments from as many people. 

Again, this is something that I have noticed both with brothas and sistas. So yes, I do think that for some reason, hair texture is the new paper bag test, to a certain extent


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## vkb247 (Dec 9, 2009)

Plenty of ladies claim 3c because of small spots of finer, silkier hair. This is not necessarily 3c though. 

I think people get so confused by Andre's system because it is just talking about curl size that's it. That couldn't be easier to understand because it gives you every day objects to compare too. But people need to claim their silky, coarse, dense, cottony hair because those factors often really determine how well products will work, etc. There is so me overlap here but the majority of the time we are talking about more than hair curl size and trying to make Andre's system encompass it all and it is not made for that.

I mention silkier parts around my edges because I know that these areas are prominent when I have my hair slicked back or up and I want others who are going for my specific look to understand that is one of the reasons it looks the way it does. I use to call this 3c until I realized the curls really aren't that big. I also used to claim 4b because of a coarser, wavier spot than the rest of my hair. But now I realize that I am just 4a with hair that behaves differently in some spots.


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## lux10023 (Dec 9, 2009)

i am a 4A and have no qualms about that---lol

for some reason all ppl think blk ppl r ooohing and awwwing over 3c hair or 2c or whateva---

i actually like type 4 hair because of the texture--it can withstand alotta craziness and you will still have hair on your head--and the way a stylelook son type 4 hair i so fly to me--plus the frizziness i see withother hair textures is not something i would like to constantly combat all the time---in general im impressed with healthy hair--short or long---

but just like my skin--im very comfortable being blk--and im even more comforatble with my type 4 blk hair--i hate when ppl speak for a mass group---smdh


tis all.


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## charmtreese (Dec 9, 2009)

Andre's system is only a point of reference for hair typing.  It is NOT the "holy grail" of hair typing!  If you put all your eggs into one basket with Andre's system, then you're bound to be frustrated and confused and you'll have no one to blame but yourself for that confusion.  If people took the same amount of time and energy to get to know their own hair as they do in trying to figure out others and trying to fit it into a hair typing box, then they would see that Andre's system is only addressing one element of hair.  

I understand that I have 4b hair, however, I also understand that I have a thin density, with fine strands, that tend to lack elasticity.  I have never had to ask anyone what my hair type/texture is, because I am my best resource in determining that factor.


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## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

LiberianGirl said:


> There you go again Neith making too much sense. I wanted to comment on this but decided to leave it alone. A lot of people have multiple textures on their head. I have not seen an overabundance of people with only a patch of 3c hair claim to be 3c/4a. Most of the people I see who claim 3c/4a have a mixture of curl dimensions (corkscrew and coils) throughout their hair, as well as their hair behaves differently than people who strictly fall under a 3 or 4 category.
> 
> I think these types of statements are more telling of the mentality of the person making the accusation rather than the person whom is trying to "pass their hair off" as something that it is not.


This is all so ridamdiculous


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## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

If you have a head w/ multitextures and claim that, how are you lying? It's actually quite common. People have many colors of hair on their head...hair color is rarely uniform on individual strands, so why should hair texture be? Some heads would be a real riddle up in here! 

*Consider this, if you have multitextures happening on your noggin  and you treat your head as only 1 texture, what of those other areas you're neglecting? I suspect that's where people get breakage/problems often complained of.*


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## AvaSpeaks (Dec 9, 2009)

whitedaisez said:


> well honestly, i think many loose textured haired pple here lie and claim a tighter texture to be accepted. here in dis forum pple also buy into de good/bad hair thing where if ur hair texture is loose but long and healthy, dey think oh u av dat good hair u prolly dint av 2 wrk too hard to achieve results.
> 
> But if u av long healthy hair with a tight texture, pple think it must have been more of a challenge for u to achieve good results since u av bad/ difficult hair; so they say BRAVO BRAVO u wrked so hard u deserve it, u've broken de 'black women cant grow hair' stereotype.
> 
> since those with loose textures are now left out, they seek more praise and glory for their hardwrk by claiming type 4 when dey r clearly a 3a! dis way pple will recognize their efforts since their hair would now be 'categorized' as bad/difficult. but dats my opinion anyways, dont stone me PLEASE


 
When did all of this happen? I have been reading this site for a long time now, when this start to happen 

Also, to all those members with valuable hair care advice that are lurking, please speak up!!! I need and want your hair advice. I will admit it, I want long hair. Hell, that's why I joined the board!! So please, your advice is much welcomed to me. I don't give a damn what your hair type is, I just want the advice. We all know it's a hair board for people of African descent so the hair type shouldn't matter that much. We should all be able to gleem something from the info no matter what our hair type is. 

I don't see what the problem is?


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## Leesh (Dec 9, 2009)

Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> in puerto rico they used to do a fan test. the paper bag or feature test didnt work cause you can have some one dark with very european features and some one light with very black features. so they would have a fan set up in certain establishments and if your hair blew in the wind then you have enough european in you to get in, if you hair didnt move, you were too black...
> 
> so yeah, its been around for a minute...


 
I didn't want to ask this question from the previous post that mentioned it cause I felt, lets say "Stupid", but may I ask, what is the paper bag test, is it what I think it is, comparison to skin color?


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## Supervixen (Dec 9, 2009)

vkb247 said:


> Plenty of ladies claim 3c because of small spots of finer, silkier hair. This is not necessarily 3c though.
> 
> I think people get so confused by Andre's system because it is just talking about curl size that's it. That couldn't be easier to understand because it gives you every day objects to compare too. But people need to claim their silky, coarse, dense, cottony hair because those factors often really determine how well products will work, etc. There is so me overlap here but the majority of the time we are talking about more than hair curl size and trying to make Andre's system encompass it all and it is not made for that.
> 
> I mention silkier parts around my edges because I know that these areas are prominent when I have my hair slicked back or up and I want others who are going for my specific look to understand that is one of the reasons it looks the way it does. I use to call this 3c until I realized the curls really aren't that big. I also used to claim 4b because of a coarser, wavier spot than the rest of my hair. But now I realize that I am just 4a with hair that behaves differently in some spots.


 

If Andre is strictly about curl size, that is a lot simplier than what it seems like LHCF tries to do.  I really think people try to add texture to it, which makes it confusing.  Granted it's just curl size and not texture, I think this board has a wide variety of types 2-4.


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## wavezncurlz (Dec 9, 2009)

@ this thread. Topic is old as the hills. Unless we reprogram, it won't go away.

BTW: as a 3something, I've noticed fewer comments when I post (and a whole lot of views). Could it be that perception clouds our judgement about what is desireable. I've mentioned in other posts that when I first joined the boards, I wanted tighter curls and coils. Seemed to me that the 4s had the lock on twistouts and braided styles as they failed on me...(think Blackmasterpiece)...Grass is always greener...


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## Jaegermany (Dec 9, 2009)

IMO I think when we see how much "knowledge" we have here about hair and just in general we expect certain mentalities to be different and are caught off guard when we see certain mindsets. But honestly LHCF is just a microcosm of society....

There have been many jewels dropped in here...I picked them up and put them in my pocket

For every side eye that someone has given towards a hair texture or length Ive seen negative tones in general. Some people just feel entitled.....and for those I steer clear. I am not trying to change the world....


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## AvaSpeaks (Dec 9, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> If Andre is strictly about curl size, that is a lot simplier than what it seems like LHCF tries to do. I really think people try to add texture to it, which makes it confusing. Granted it's just curl size and not texture, I think this board has a wide variety of types 2-4.


 
That's because people don't really know what they are talking about. There is a difference between type and texture. And yes, our hair is different from other races, and yes I do believe that with all my heart. 

Personally, I don't give a damn what anybody thinks of my hair texture or type. All I know is that I got short hair and I want longer hair, my hair "texture" doesn't fit any of the categories here and despite that I still think I got the best hair texture/type or whatever it's called on the planet, and all haters can got to Hades  very much!


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## ceebee3 (Dec 9, 2009)

Leesh said:


> I didn't want to ask this question from the previous post that mentioned it cause I felt, lets say "Stupid", but may I ask, what is the paper bag test, is it what I think it is, comparison to skin color?


 
Yes, it's what you think it is.  They put the bag up to your face and if you are the same complexion or lighter than the bag, you are  A OK, if your darker, well .............


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## skegeesmb (Dec 9, 2009)

There has always been a good hair bad hair mentality.  Honestly I've been a member when 99 percent of the people on this board were relaxed the word texlaxed or whatever the heck that word is wasn't even a word yet.

I had taken a vacation from this board and a lot of older members are still here, but they don't post.  I mean why would they?  Posters are SO offended by stuff that no one wants to post, and frankly it's much more entertaining to read this stuff.

Sorry to go off topic.


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## dicapr (Dec 9, 2009)

I think the whole typing system should just be let go.  When I first got here I mistakenly thought that similar hair types=those products will work for me also.  I actually find that density of the hair is a better determines whether products and techniques will work for me.  I'd rather know if you have find strands than 1234abc typing. Typing on here has become a way for others to project their personal insecurities on others.  Just let it go!
I am a fan of versitile and thick hair.  I wish I had my niece's hair-she is 3a-3c but I also wish I had a co-workers hair and she is 4a/4b. But I guess I have a problem becasue I have naturally thin hair.


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## Leesh (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> *This is the OLD ruler test actually.* Frankly, OP your question was a loaded one. It assumes that it's the "Andre 3" people who are so fixated on hair texture and that they are the ones who volunteer this info more readily than "Andre 4 people". I don't see this at all on *this* site. If anything, people are *ASKED* what their hair type is, frequently...much too frequently. Then when they answer, folks spend precious time debating whether or not they're telling the truth . *If you are an "Andre 3", should you lie to make others feel comfortable?* I'm starting to think you really must if you want some peace!
> 
> Much of this emphasis on texture is coming from the fact that it seems half our board is suddenly going natural. *Given that so many BW have no real practical knowledge of their hair and its texture, I suspect many secretly hope they will have a hair type that they end up not having. *Once they have their hopes dashed and fears confirmed, many simply get very passive-aggressive about the matter. Either they LOUDLY tout their texture over others or they spend too much time worrying about other folks' textures....both of these camps spend inordinate amount of time/money/thought trying to change THEIR texture or being in denial about it. This isn't about anyone else, it's about them. I understand people have their insecurities, but that doesn't give them the right to inflict or project them on to other people. They need to accept themselves before demanding that others do.
> 
> ...


 


I Love You Jamaraa! Thats all I have to say!


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## AvaSpeaks (Dec 9, 2009)

skegeesmb said:


> There has always been a good hair bad hair mentality. Honestly I've been a member when 99 percent of the people on this board were relaxed the word texlaxed or whatever the heck that word is wasn't even a word yet.
> 
> I had taken a vacation from this board and a lot of older members are still here, but they don't post. I mean why would they? Posters are SO offended by stuff that no one wants to post, and frankly it's much more entertaining to read this stuff.
> 
> Sorry to go off topic.


 
Or not only older members not posting because of people so "offended" but also what about people not posting pics anymore because they have to "prove" what their hair texture is  I mean why is it that if somebody says they have 1a/3c/4b hair texture, then they got to post a pic to prove it? SMH

Please again to those old lurkers, please start posting again. I really like LHCF but I do feel that lately (within the past year) I feel that real substantial info and threads have been lacking and now we are reading a bunch of "stuff". Let's get back to the original purpose of the board, to grow our hair long!


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## Cali*Rocks (Dec 9, 2009)

Ediese said:


> I've noticed this too. I know a lot of people have different textures, and I'm not all up in their head checking it out. My thing is why do people claim 3c if they have a very small patch of it? It was very hard for me to find a regular 4a natural because everywhere I look people are 3c/4a..even if they might have four 3c strands. If the majority of your hair is 4a, why even mention 3c?..serious question.


  I think those are the same people who will be like oh my great-great grandma was Indian


----------



## AsianAfricanPrincess (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> If you have a head w/ multitextures and claim that, how are you lying?




Honey, it's called "insecurity" and some of these folks are revealing a lot more about *THEMSELVES* and *THEIR OWN INSECURITY* than they are about other folks...  

And who the heck is up in someone's scalp to be able to accuse anyone on the boards of "lying"??


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## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> I think those are the same people who will be like oh my great-great grandma was Indian


 
Umm...what if they WERE Indian?! Why such bigotry? This statement is pure bigotry, sorry.


----------



## AsianAfricanPrincess (Dec 9, 2009)

LiberianGirl said:


> *I think these types of statements are more telling of the mentality of the person making the accusation rather than the person whom is trying to "pass their hair off" as something that it is not.*




Girl, tell it!  See, this is why I come to LHCF...  Keen, observant sisters, for real...


----------



## Cali*Rocks (Dec 9, 2009)

wavezncurlz said:


> *@ this thread. Topic is old as the hills. Unless we reprogram, it won't go away.
> *
> BTW: as a 3something, I've noticed fewer comments when I post (and a whole lot of views). Could it be that perception clouds our judgement about what is desireable. I've mentioned in other posts that when I first joined the boards, I wanted tighter curls and coils. Seemed to me that the 4s had the lock on twistouts and braided styles as they failed on me...(think Blackmasterpiece)...Grass is always greener...



Yes I understand that. I wanted some input and I got some, so thanks for answering


----------



## Cali*Rocks (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> Umm...what if they WERE Indian. Why such bigotry?



Yes there are some who are and there are some who say that to make themselves feel better than everyone else. Not bigotry just an observation. Thanks for your input


----------



## Leesh (Dec 9, 2009)

Bene said:


> No one wants to be that person who to tell someone "Your hair looks stupid". Especially here? People come back here on a regular basis and no one wants to be branded as that person who tries to make other people feel bad about their own hair.
> 
> On the other hand, the YouTube person isn't here. It's like how we'll criticize a celebrity vs. someone we see every day. I may make fun of Tammy Faye Baker's make-up, but I wouldn't say those things to someone I have to interact with every day.
> 
> Maybe it's cowardice? I don't know. I'm certainly guilty of it. I know for a fact that if I showed up one day and told someone "Dang, that twist out looks busted" I'll get attacked for that. It's best to just keep quiet on certain things.


 
I must say that I disagree, I feel like, in order to learn or move forward with Your Healthy Hair Practices, You need Constructive Criticism, If your answers to questions are always Sugar-Coated then how will You ever know if what Your doing is working, I understand a Person may not want to be the "Meanie" here, but there is a way to say things without coming off as mean, but I do know, when I am looking for true answers, I Hope and Pray that You Ladies are being honest, or really there is no reason to even be a member here, what would be the purpose. I could look in the mirror and lie to Myself.


----------



## LiberianGirl (Dec 9, 2009)

This is my last post in here b/c I can see where this is going (accusing people of lying about their hair type). I just want to say that you (in general) can't claim that the good hair/bad hair myth needs to change and then continue behaviors that perpetuate it.


----------



## LadyRaider (Dec 9, 2009)

BlackMasterPiece sure has some purty hair. What is her "type?" 

And the paperbag test just means whether you are lighter or darker than a paperbag.


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Dec 9, 2009)

wavezncurlz said:


> @ this thread. Topic is old as the hills.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Neith (Dec 9, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> I think those are the same people who will be like oh my great-great grandma was Indian



I don't get how admitting you have a small bit of a different texture means that you are trying to claim that you have "good" hair.  If I claim type 4, very coarse type 4 at that... what am I trying to prove?

*Wow, I REALLY got that "good" "mixed" hair because a little bit of the hair in my nape is looser and finer.  
*
WTH?   

It's funny to me that anyone would believe in or accuse people of believing in that FOOLISHNESS.

Wow, just wow.


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> Yes there are some who are and there are some who say that to make themselves feel better than everyone else. Not bigotry just an observation. Thanks for your input


 
You're welcome, but you can get answers w/o going down *that* road. Frankly, it's unworthy of us. Do you realize how freaking bizarre, not to mention dysfunctional, it is to argue w/ a complete stranger about THEIR ancestry? Are Black folks really THIS insecure? Seriously?


----------



## anon123 (Dec 9, 2009)

happylife said:


> Can't brow beat people from lusting over something they personally deem beautiful by making them feel guilty about it. Ever. Its like trying to make a gay person not gay. You just like what you like. No explanation should be needed.
> 
> Not one word can fall from your mouth or type with your fingers will ever make a hill of beans difference.  It is what it is.




I know what you mean, but I do want to emphasize the positive effect standing up to this type hierarchy can have.

Before the hair boards, I never thought of my hair as beautiful.  I didn't think it was ugly, though I knew I didn't know how to style it. I just didn't think much of it. After much praise here, I now feel my hair is beautiful.  Outside affirmation is important to me and to most others, and it does effect how you view yourself.  I think it can change our perceptions, not quite as hard as trying to make a straight person gay or anything like that.

Admittedly my hair is thick and not very short, so I know this is part of the reason I get so much positive feedback.  But still, I've even had people complement my texture.  That was a new one for me.


----------



## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

Neith said:


> I don't get how admitting you have a small bit of a different texture means that you are trying to claim that you have "good" hair.  If I claim type 4, very coarse type 4 at that... what am I trying to prove?
> 
> *Wow, I REALLY got that "good" "mixed" hair because a little bit of the hair in my nape is looser and finer.
> *
> ...


All this hair type Paranoia and others obsessing over what another does with their hair is mind blowing

it breeds hate and division

why is anyone all up in someone else's head anyway?

never understood it! never will!


----------



## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> You're welcome, but you can get answers w/o going down *that* road. Frankly, it's unworthy of us. Do you realize how freaking bizarre, not to mention dysfunctional, it is to argue w/ a complete stranger about THEIR ancestry? Are Black folks really THIS insecure? Seriously?


YEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't we all just shoot each other now, that's basically what we do all day long anyway

this is sick, sad and sick

petty and pathetic


----------



## ceebee3 (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> You're welcome, but you can get answers w/o going down *that* road. Frankly, it's unworthy of us. Do you realize how freaking bizarre, not to mention dysfunctional, it is to argue w/ a complete stranger about THEIR ancestry? Are Black folks really THIS insecure? Seriously?


 

Yes they are.


----------



## Supervixen (Dec 9, 2009)

ceebee3 said:


> Yes they are.


 

I think it's insecurity from both aspects.  It also seems insecure that you have to go back 5 generations to point out one relative that wasn't black, and THAT'S why you have one "desirable" trait.  

It's definitely NOT worth arguing with a stranger though, I do agree.


----------



## AsianAfricanPrincess (Dec 9, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> I think it's insecurity from both aspects.  It also seems insecure that you have to go back 5 generations to point out one relative that wasn't black, and THAT'S why you have one desirable trait.
> 
> It's definitely NOT worth arguing though, I do agree.




Who said it's "desirable", though?  And "desirable" to whom?

EDIT:  Also, a little off-topic, but why not say it's "desirable" or "pretty" anyway?  It's like out of guilt, people with non-4 textures shouldn't be regarded as having "pretty" or "cute" hair?  Why is it okay to say that to a 4 texture, but if you say it to a 3 or 2 texture, it's demonized?  

I guess I'm just thinking out loud here...the answers are obvious to me.


----------



## Supervixen (Dec 9, 2009)

AsianAfricanPrincess said:


> Who said it's "desirable", though? And "desirable" to whom?


 

Thus I edited to put desirable in quotes.


----------



## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

Telling people they can't claim who and what they are, the very blood running through their veins is not a far cry from putting them through a paper bag test! 

Same principle ......really


----------



## LaToya28 (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> You're welcome, but you can get answers w/o going down *that* road. Frankly, it's unworthy of us. Do you realize how freaking bizarre, not to mention dysfunctional, it is to argue w/ a complete stranger about THEIR ancestry? Are Black folks really THIS insecure? Seriously?


 
Unfortunately, we are! And I'm not sure if we'll ever "get over it" as they tell us.


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

If that's the case, it's too bad cuz folks are many who are no longer so willing to pretend to be what they aren't to make others feel good about themselves. *Desparation is ugly.* There's used to be a saying for folks who chose Black over their more obvious ancestries.."voluntary Negroes". People like WEB Dubois, John Hope, Walter White and the like proudly claimed to be so, but have we now stooped so low as INvoluntary Negrohood? That's a regression way more serious that I expected even on so sticky and unpleasant a topic as this one. Dag man...


----------



## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

AsianAfricanPrincess said:


> Who said it's "desirable", though?  And "desirable" to whom?
> 
> EDIT:  Also, a little off-topic, but why not say it's "desirable" or "pretty" anyway?  It's like out of guilt, people with non-4 textures shouldn't be regarded as having "pretty" or "cute" hair?  Why is it okay to say that to a 4 texture, but if you say it to a 3 or 2 texture, it's demonized?
> 
> I guess I'm just thinking out loud here...the answers are obvious to me.


Hair type paranoia

geesh this is getting old

and it's plain ugly


----------



## Cali*Rocks (Dec 9, 2009)

First of all, I'm not trying to argue with anyone about what texture they have on their head. I asked a valid question and got SOME valid answers. All the baiting into an argument is not for me, so take that elsewhere.


----------



## LadyRaider (Dec 9, 2009)

This seems to be a pointless issue. No one on this board who is showing off pictures should be ashamed of their texture of hair. 

In this day and age, there are enough relaxers, extensions, wigs, etc. that if you feel insecure about your hair, then you can do something about it. 

I don't think anyone here is THAT insecure about their hair. I think people here are PROUD of their hair. Otherwise they wouldn't show it off.


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> I think it's insecurity from both aspects. It also seems insecure that you have to go back 5 generations to point out one relative that wasn't black, and THAT'S why you have one "desirable" trait.
> 
> It's definitely NOT worth arguing with a stranger though, I do agree.


 
What if it's the truth? If people INSIST that to know where you got your trait and you tell them the truth, why is this considered a fault? If they didn't ask, I hear ya, but people ask and often. I've literally seen people insist here that someone IS mixed even when they say they aren't...so what's the solution? 

BTW, genetics isn't as selective about where it asserts itself as the one drop rule!  One gen or 5...genetics can throw curve balls whether society can deal or not!


----------



## Supervixen (Dec 9, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Telling people they can't claim who and what they are, the very blood running through their veins is not a far cry from putting them through a paper bag test!
> 
> Same principle ......really


 

Someone along in the family tree a century ago was white and another was native american, you think I should go on with saying I'm CauBlaNativeAmerican?

People can claim WHATEVER they want, others don't have to believe it!  However, it IS pointless to argue, and it DOES seem insecure to reach back centuries and generations to self-describe.  But, if you want, that's you.


----------



## AsianAfricanPrincess (Dec 9, 2009)

This topic smacks with insecurity to me...some interesting insights, but mostly insecurity and wild accusations and the same old, tired "accusing someone else of my own insecurities".  


*
YAWN*


Peace sisters...on to more interesting LHCF fare...


----------



## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> Someone along in the family tree a century ago was white and another was native american, you think I should go on with saying I'm CauBlaNativeAmerican?
> 
> People can claim WHATEVER they want, others don't have to believe it!  However, it IS pointless to argue, and it DOES seem insecure to reach back centuries and generations to self-describe.  But, if you want, that's you.


Don't apply to me cause I'm first generation everything I claim

but like you said , I come solely from the camp, people can do what they want

I aint too much worried about what others do


----------



## Supervixen (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> What if it's the truth? If people INSIST that to know where you got your trait and you tell them the truth, why is this considered a fault? If they didn't ask, I hear ya, but people ask and often. I've literally seen people insist here that someone IS mixed even when they say they aren't...so what's the solution?
> 
> BTW, genetics isn't as selective about where it asserts itself as the one drop rule!  One gen or 5...genetics can throw curve balls whether society can deal or not!


 
How do we know that that trait is from them?  We just had a discussion on this here LHCF about how for years, so many black people thought they had high cheek bones from their Native American ancestors.  However, genetics proved that it was actually from Massa 'nem.  Some posters even went on to say many Africans have high cheek bones, so it could just genetics from our African ancestors.  

Genes DO throw curve balls.


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> Someone along in the family tree a century ago was white and another was native american, you think I should go on with saying I'm CauBlaNativeAmerican?
> 
> People can claim WHATEVER they want, others don't have to believe it! However, it IS pointless to argue, and it DOES seem insecure to reach back centuries and generations to self-describe. But, if you want, that's you.


 
Some people don't believe in gravity either....doesn't change the *FACT* that it exists! 

OK so how will ethos this apply to the changing Black Community? The BC ain't what it used to be. More and more Blacks are NOT of 1st generation American ancestry at all. So are we still in disbelief that there are actually Blacks in England?  I'm just curious to know if this sort of "disbelief" only applies to Blacks in general, Black Americans, or all people who don't conform to the "one drop rule" or American ancestry. This really fascinates me because the days of "you don't wanna be Black" are getting far more difficult to call given how complex the BC is becoming. What exactly IS Black anymore?


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 9, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> How do we know that that trait is from them? We just had a discussion on this here LHCF about how for years, so many black people thought they had high cheek bones from their Native American ancestors. However, genetics proved that it was actually from Massa 'nem. Some posters even went on to say many Africans have high cheek bones, so it could just genetics from our African ancestors.
> 
> Genes DO throw curve balls.


 

If you're talking about another's ancestry, there's a better chance THEY know where it comes from that you would, right?  Nobody knows anything fo sho...mama's baby...papa's *MAYBE*!


----------



## aegis (Dec 9, 2009)

At the end of the day you must learn to validate YOURSELF. I don't notice different textures being lauded over others because LHCF is NOT my fullyime job. It simply isn't. I am here to draw inspiration from other women,  mainly 4bs. 

Do I have my own biases? Most certainly. But some women need to stop getting hurt over what nameless women on a forum think about your hair texture. How do you possibly live constructive lives if you're so sensitive?


----------



## Leesh (Dec 9, 2009)

I have read thtough this entire Thread and have come to the conclusion that, The Texture thing is absolutely irrelevant to Me, I have never known My Hair Texture, could care less about knowing, and have never really thought about it, all I know is I want one Texture and thats the "HEALTHY" Texture. erplexed


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

whew! didnt know there were so many strong feelings over this subject or that there was a silent/quiet storm brewing over hair types til now.

is there a happy medium we can all reach ? can we all agree that:

a. we are all beautiful !!!

b. for the sake of culture, all are welcome

c. no one is perfect

d. to make mistakes goes with the  territory of being human

e. a lack of others clicking thanks to your post does not mean your input has a lesser value  or was not appreciated.

f. we all have something wonderful to offer. 

g. your hair does not define how awesome of a person you are.


----------



## Supervixen (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> If you're talking about another's ancestry, there's a better chance THEY know where it comes from that you would, right?  Nobody knows anything fo sho...mama's baby...papa's *MAYBE*!


 

I gotta be honest, If you take me back to 1850 and how Massa Willie was your great great great great g'ma's daddy, I'm kinda NOT LISTENING.


----------



## Irresistible (Dec 9, 2009)

happylife said:


> whew! didnt know there were so many strong feelings over this subject or that there was a silent/quiet storm brewing over hair types til now.
> 
> is there a happy medium we can all reach ? can we all agree that:
> 
> ...


we can dream


----------



## Almaz (Dec 9, 2009)

I don't get it cause Rosa Parks for sure could have passed for something and even SHE had to sit on the back of the bus. Light skinned darked skinned light bright almost like white to Ebony Black didn't Black folks no matter what colour they are go through hell in America anyway. So what is the difference it Mr. Charlie was swinging you up on a tree he did not give a damn as to how light or how dark you are and the white ancestors in your family

Why should we.  Are we ever going to move on from that mess. Black people did not make those rules but it is time for those rules to be squashed


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> we can dream


 
true, true....or commit


----------



## LadyRaider (Dec 9, 2009)

OT: Happy Life: I like your Siggy.


----------



## Neith (Dec 9, 2009)

happylife said:


> or commit.......



I hate to say it, but to me it seems hopeless.  

Maybe it's just a part of human nature to divide, exclude and have prejudices.  No matter what group of people you look at, it's always present.


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

LadyRaider said:


> OT: Happy Life: I like your Siggy.


 

ot: roll tide!


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

Neith said:


> I hate to say it, but to me it seems hopeless.
> 
> Maybe it's just a part of human nature to divide, exclude and have prejudices. No matter what group of people you look at, it's always present.


 

i dunno. just thought it might be something to chew on


----------



## dynamic1 (Dec 9, 2009)

LiberianGirl said:


> This is my last post in here b/c I can see where this is going (accusing people of lying about their hair type). I just want to say that you (in general) can't claim that the good hair/bad hair myth needs to change and then continue behaviors that perpetuate it.


 
People cannot see how their own value judgments are equivalent to the accusations they make…projection indeed.  I _try_ to give others the benefit of the doubt and _try_ not to guess intentions but jeez Louise.
I doubt people would complain if a 4a claimed his or her 4b patch, calling themselves 4a/4b. Would they be “liars” as well? 

Offtopic : Everyone's "other" ancestry did not originate during slavery and was not the result of a liaison with the massa or rape.  Some people coexisted with their great great grandparent(s).  Stating ancestry does not necessarily indicate the individual thinks they are somehow "better".  I hope my great great grandbabies don't count me out.


----------



## Rain20 (Dec 9, 2009)

I vote to abolish hair typing on LHCF. Instead describe hair in terms of dry, cottony, porous, breaking. Lets make 2010 hair type free on the board. This thread really is disturbing.


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

What has hair typing done good for us?

If its only divided us ,then yeah let it kick rocks


----------



## Neith (Dec 9, 2009)

It's not the hair typing that is fueling this though.  It adds another layer, but this mentality still going to be there.  

Like many others have said... this issue has been around way longer than Andre.

I dunno... it just sucks. lol


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> What if it's the truth? If people INSIST that to know where you got your trait and you tell them the truth, why is this considered a fault? If they didn't ask, I hear ya, but people ask and often. I've literally seen people insist here that someone IS mixed even when they say they aren't...so what's the solution?
> 
> BTW, genetics isn't as selective about where it asserts itself as the one drop rule!  One gen or 5...genetics can throw curve balls whether society can deal or not!


 
I think the problem is that sometimes when people pinpoint a trait that society or they themselves would consider "desirable", then it's usually traced back to some ancestor that is not Black. 

But what if that trait came from a Black ancestor? I mean African genes had so much diversity just by itself way before colonialism enter into the picture. Maybe we have beautiful hair because of them and not necessarily because of a European, Asian or Native influence. 

I mean at least that's how some people would see it


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

Neith said:


> It's not the hair typing that is fueling this though.  It adds another layer, but this mentality still going to be there.
> 
> Like many others have said... this issue has been around way longer than Andre.
> 
> I dunno... it just sucks. lol



I think I understand what you are saying. But as long as hair types  can be misread then what use could they serve other than to divide?


----------



## LadyRaider (Dec 9, 2009)

Interesting, Ava Speaks. 

African Americans ARE a mixed raced. I would bet that 99.4 percent of us are not pure African. How come we can't be proud that we are mixed like the other African-descendants in the Americas?

I know, I know. We were beat down for being African in the first place, so to now be proud of our mixed heritage would seem somehow like forsaking the struggle of our forefathers. But then again, because of our past mistreatment, we not can't accept who we are?

But we ARE different than Africans. I can tell the difference immediately from an African and an African American... just by looking at them. We come from the same place but we are not the same. 

I read some research once that traced the genetic lineage of African American males and the majority could be traced to European ancestry.


----------



## ceebee3 (Dec 9, 2009)

LadyRaider said:


> Interesting, Ava Speaks.
> 
> African Americans ARE a mixed raced. I would bet that 99.4 percent of us are not pure African. How come we can't be proud that we are mixed like the other African-descendants in the Americas?
> 
> ...


 
All the racial mixing in the world is still not going to change who we are.  It doesnt matter how many other races you descended from, African-Americans are not that different from Africans.

We are far more equal than we are seperate.


----------



## Foxglove (Dec 9, 2009)

happylife said:


> What has hair typing done good for us?
> 
> If its only divided us ,then yeah let it kick rocks



Hair typing isn't all bad. I used to wonder why my hair didn't do the things other members mention like straighten at 300-anything degrees or laying down the edges with just water/moisturizer, stuff like that
I also use it as a rough (I said rough) guideline to products
I wouldn't use it to say my hair is better/worse than somebody else's
It just helps me as far as ruling out methods of detangling, styling, etc that other types do that isn't possible with my hair


----------



## LunadeMiel (Dec 9, 2009)




----------



## BeetleBug (Dec 9, 2009)

this thread is still here? i thought it would have died down already.


----------



## LadyRaider (Dec 9, 2009)

Ceebee,

Mexicans rightly claim a heritage that is Spanish and Native American. But I think being proud of that part of us is denied to us because of how it happened. I identify with Africa because that is my obvious heritage. But the struggle... the struggle that we inherit is purely an _African American_ one. If you tried to drop me off in the middle of the most western-like city in Africa, I'd probably die of culture shock. 

Just speculating. I don't know.


----------



## HeChangedMyName (Dec 9, 2009)

Great thread topic.  and I feel that yes it is.  we don't say "good hair" anymore because it is not pc, but we say speak all about our types and which ones are better and easier to manage and so on and so forth.  So, yep.


----------



## ceebee3 (Dec 9, 2009)

LadyRaider said:


> Ceebee,
> 
> Mexicans rightly claim a heritage that is Spanish and Native American. But I think being proud of that part of us is denied to us because of how it happened. I identify with Africa because that is my obvious heritage. But the struggle... the struggle that we inherit is purely an _African American_ one. If you tried to drop me off in the middle of the most western-like city in Africa, I'd probably die of culture shock.
> 
> Just speculating. I don't know.


 
I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging who you are or where your ancestors came from.

African Americans do have a different struggle, but to say they are a different race from Africans does not make sense.

I really can't concern myself on which groups anyone chooses to identify with, that's an individual thing but I'm not going to agree that African Americans are so different from other blacks across the globe.


----------



## Liege4421 (Dec 9, 2009)

I think the intentions of the hair typing were good (to help people determine how to take care of their hair, or what types of products would work best on their hair).  However, just like any tool, if used in a negative way, the results will be devisive, which some people have noticed on this forum.  

As an aside (a little off topic), I have noticed some threads have become more and more combative.  I'm not sure where this animosity is coming from; I know it is difficult to keep emotions in check when discussing a topic that one cares about, but sometimes I feel like people are responding to each other as if their livelihood were at stake. This is a forum and it only works when people feel like they can state their opinion, however controversial, without being attacked.  Otherwise, it will just be a board of people saying the same stuff to the same people over and over again.  

That being said, we have to remember that free speech doesn't offer carte blanche to say whatever we want in any fashion we want; as an example, it's not the hair typing system itself that is divisive, it is how it is employed by some people that is devisive.  In much the same way, EVERY MESSAGE can be conveyed in a non-combative, mutually respecting way and EVERY MESSAGE can be conveyed in an aggressive, hurtful way.  I tend to lurk, and I must add it's not as fun reading comments where we are being nasty to one another.  

Finally, I know I'm not perfect myself, so I don't mean this to be a judgemental rant.  I hope it is not taken in that way, and I apologize in advance if my comment causes any offense.


----------



## almond eyes (Dec 9, 2009)

I keep saying........curly, wavy, coily, springy, spongey, cottony or wool and combination hair. Andre didn't realise all the confusion he has caused years later unintentionally. The typing system is too confined. This is why I wrote a thread many months ago that I didn't like the hair typing system. I only typed my own hair in past posts when asked so that others who thought they had my own particular issue might be able to learn something from me. 

Other than that, I'm not saying aything else. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


----------



## LadyRaider (Dec 9, 2009)

ceebee3 said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging who you are or where your ancestors came from.
> 
> African Americans do have a different struggle, but to say they are a different race from Africans does not make sense.
> 
> I really can't concern myself on which groups anyone chooses to identify with, that's an individual thing but I'm not going to agree that African Americans are so different from other blacks across the globe.



Ah... well I'm the one that is always posting this link:

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm

So I wasn't really talking about race per se. I think I was talking more about ethnicity... because that is a geographical, social thing. We can agree to disagree. I think we are very different than African blacks. 400+ years and several generations different. And you are right to say race/ethnicity depends about 90 percent on how you choose to identify.

What made me think about all of this is Latinos. Are all Latinos the same "race?" Are the Mexicans and Brazillians and Pueto Ricans the same? It's the Latinos that really blew the lid of the idea of "race" for me.

Iraqis and Swedes are both "white." Are they the same "race?"


----------



## ceebee3 (Dec 9, 2009)

Of course there are distinguishing factors regarding ethnicity, that's within every race.  

A Latino is simply someone from Latin America, just like an American is simply someone from North America.  

How would you know what race they identify with?


----------



## chrisanddonniesmommy (Dec 9, 2009)

A Latino is one that identifies with the Latin Diaspora. They can from the Caribbean, Latin America, Central America, etc. It's an ethnicity, not a race. You have Asian Latinos, Black Latinos, White Latinos, and so on.


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 9, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> If Andre is strictly about curl size, that is a lot simplier than what it seems like LHCF tries to do.  I really think people try to add texture to it, which makes it confusing.  Granted it's just curl size and not texture, I think this board has a wide variety of types 2-4.



I was just about to post this. It's not that hard. 1 is straight, 2 is wavy, 3 is curly, 4a = tightest curls, 4b = fuzzy, underfined, z pattern. 3-4a are curls getting progressively smaller. Choose which one is CLOSEST to urs and keep it moving. It is not hard.  How fine, coarse, medium, silky, your hair is, is irrelevant..... curl size from biggest to smallest to non existent.


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 9, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> Umm...what if they WERE Indian?! Why such bigotry? This statement is pure bigotry, sorry.



it doesn't count unless u "look" the part


----------



## Supervixen (Dec 9, 2009)

LadyRaider said:


> Ah... well I'm the one that is always posting this link:
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm
> 
> ...


 
RACES:  Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid

To my understanding everything else is culture or ethnicity.


----------



## LunadeMiel (Dec 9, 2009)

Kurlee said:


> I was just about to post this. It's not that hard. 1 is straight, 2 is wavy, 3 is curly, 4a = tightest curls, 4b = fuzzy, underfined, z pattern. 3-4a are curls getting progressively smaller. Choose which one is CLOSEST to urs and keep it moving. It is not hard. How fine, coarse, medium, silky, your hair is, is irrelevant..... curl size from biggest to smallest to non existent.


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 9, 2009)

AvaSpeaks said:


> I think the problem is that sometimes when people pinpoint a trait that society or they themselves would consider "desirable", then it's usually traced back to some ancestor that is not Black.
> 
> *But what if that trait came from a Black ancestor? I mean African genes had so much diversity just by itself way before colonialism enter into the picture. Maybe we have beautiful hair because of them* and not necessarily because of a European, Asian or Native influence.
> 
> I mean at least that's how some people would see it


----------



## Diva_Esq (Dec 9, 2009)

Sometimes, I hate the hair-typing system and the divisiveness that accompanies it.


----------



## LunadeMiel (Dec 9, 2009)

Diva_Esq said:


> Sometimes, I hate the hair-typing system and the divisiveness that accompanies it.


 
See it really doesn't have to be. The issues start when people start to project their insecurities...

Team Hair typing


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## Supervixen (Dec 9, 2009)

Kurlee said:


> I was just about to post this. It's not that hard. 1 is straight, 2 is wavy, 3 is curly, 4a = tightest curls, 4b = fuzzy, underfined, z pattern. 3-4a are curls getting progressively smaller. Choose which one is CLOSEST to urs and keep it moving. It is not hard. How fine, coarse, medium, silky, your hair is, is irrelevant..... curl size from biggest to smallest to non existent.


 

I actually believe more LHCF ladies 2's and 3's than most are willing to admit.


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 9, 2009)

Diva_Esq said:


> Sometimes, I hate the hair-typing system and the divisiveness that accompanies it.



it only becomes divisive when people take it and run with it, overcomplicate it


----------



## happylife (Dec 9, 2009)

On paper hair typing sounds like it would be helpful .

But on the other side of the coin, it seems only as accurate as the the person doing the assessment. is there a more concrete failsafe way we can gather the information we need for our hair? Only ask out  curiousity.


----------



## purplepeace79 (Dec 9, 2009)

Yeah I'm sorry. Rosa chose to sit where she sat as part of a calculated plot to garner an arrest so the protest/boycott could begin. Others tried but werent arrested. just randomly contributing to this thread lol



Almaz said:


> I don't get it cause Rosa Parks for sure could have passed for something and even SHE had to sit on the back of the bus. Light skinned darked skinned light bright almost like white to Ebony Black didn't Black folks no matter what colour they are go through hell in America anyway. So what is the difference it Mr. Charlie was swinging you up on a tree he did not give a damn as to how light or how dark you are and the white ancestors in your family
> 
> Why should we.  Are we ever going to move on from that mess. Black people did not make those rules but it is time for those rules to be squashed


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 9, 2009)

i like hair typing, because when done right, I get to see other people who have hair similar to mine and some of their techniques and products.  I have found so many staples that way.


----------



## AsianAfricanPrincess (Dec 9, 2009)

LadyRaider said:


> Ah... well I'm the one that is always posting this link:
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm
> 
> ...




Thank you for making this point.  This is something that I would argue most African-Americans in this day and age are unwilling to accept because we see ourselves through a lens of chroma and shame.  

Regarding your comment about Iraqis and Swedes, I'm glad you pointed this out.  This is something that most people don't realize, but according to US Census Bureau's standards on "race" (which are completely racist and archaic), an Iranian, an East Indian, and a German are considered the exact same "thing".  It's hilarious and unbelievable all at once.  

The sad thing is that someone on here mentioned there being "three races".  See, this is craziness.     The concept of "race" is outdated, archaic, and racist in and of itself.  But AAs have latched on to that sh!t.  And since we're usually the last to jump on the bandwagon, I assume it will take another few decades before we get it through our own thick skulls.  

And you're right, what you mentioned about 400 years of difference in ancestry.  My SO is Cameroonian and even he and his folks recognize this.  My Igbo friends recognize this.  However, we're so caught up in our own denials and attempts at pan-Africanism that we ourselves fail to realize it.  

Few people would tell a Dominican or a Puerto Rican that they should call themselves "African".  However, African Americans seem to think that sort of ignorance/blanket grouping masquerading as pan-Africanism is okay.  For me, it's indicative of the lack of respect and appreciation we have for ourselves as a people.  

The African diaspora is made up of many, MANY nations.  Strong, proud nations who have overcome so much.  I recognize all of my peeps throughout the diaspora, and I respect the differences that make each diasporic nation so awesome and unique.  I enjoy recognizing our differences and our shared heritage, at the same time.  

I've got to get back out of this thread because a lot of merde is being slung to and fro.  I just needed to show some support for what you mentioned here.  

NOTE:  Even the term "ethnic" or "ethnic group" are used in confusing ways in the US...I've seen all sorts of excuses and justifications slung about for this in the past on forums, but imho, it all comes down to our ignorance as Americans.  We seriously live in a freaking bubble.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Dec 9, 2009)

LaToya28 said:


> Excellent answer! In my own personal experience, and I'm going to be totally honest with you ladies, I am thinking of transitioning, but there are times when I see pictures of certain ladies with super kinky hair, and I'll think to myself "I don't want to be natural if my hair looks like that." Some of you may think it's ignorant or shallow of me, but I'm sorry it's the truth. I think that what CurlTalk said was right on point...my mom's hair is a 3 something and growing up I always wished that I had hair like hers and when I told her that I was thinking of going natural she disapproved because my hair would be "nappy." So perhaps that has influenced the way I feel. erplexed I'm trying to get over this and accept the way that God made me...I hate the terms "good" hair or "pretty" hair. I know that good hair is healthy hair, but old habits die hard I guess...



ok, i'm gonna be honest too... this worries me!  growing up, i wanted hair like my mom (2 something) and it was discouraging being the "darkie" and the "nappy" one in the fam.  luckily as i got older (and after transitioning) i learned to love my hair as well as my skin.

as i've stated before, i love 4a hair, like a lot lol.  i also find darker women to be more attractive than lighter woman (i just think darker women have flawless skin, like butter.  i love it!).  because of all of this, i think i've purposely dated darker men with a kinkier hair patter.

i'm now in the works of getting married and we're talking kids and i'm like so excited to see what kind of coils we produce (dont know if that's weird or not lol).  but i figure what ever happens, i probably wont pop out a 3b.

my concern is, my mother loved my hair (except on detangling days) but i still hated it cause it wasnt like hers.

i dont want my daughter thinking something is wrong with her cause she's not like me.  especially when i'll be jealous of her fro lol

its horrible how this is soooo terribly engraved in all of us...  look at all of us bickering like some old ninnies when on any other thread (to my experience) we get along.

i will admit this thread has been a fabulous read.  there are so many educated women on here that can really write in a manner that i just sit there pondering and really digging deep.

but on the same note i kinda want the thread locked cause i think it has potential to go to far...  i dunno, i dont write as well as some so i cant really explain what i mean.  i'm taking my but back to school lol


----------



## LadyRaider (Dec 9, 2009)

nm nmnmnm nm


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 10, 2009)

Liege4421 said:


> I think the intentions of the hair typing were good (to help people determine how to take care of their hair, or what types of products would work best on their hair).  However, just like any tool, if used in a negative way, the results will be devisive, which some people have noticed on this forum.
> 
> As an aside (a little off topic), I have noticed some threads have become more and more combative.  I'm not sure where this animosity is coming from; I know it is difficult to keep emotions in check when discussing a topic that one cares about, but sometimes I feel like people are responding to each other as if their livelihood were at stake. This is a forum and it only works when people feel like they can state their opinion, however controversial, without being attacked.  Otherwise, it will just be a board of people saying the same stuff to the same people over and over again.
> 
> ...


ur muscles are michelle obama-esque! workout reggie plz


----------



## Liege4421 (Dec 10, 2009)

^^^^To build up, try doing sets of pull-ups twice a week...5-6 sets of 5-6...i mean real boy-pull-ups (palms facing away from you).  Have a friend help you with your form because that's where most people's mistakes are.  If you can't do pull ups, then try lateral pull-downs on a machine; 4-5 sets of 12-15.  I also did close and wide grip lateral pull downs, and single bent over rows (all for 4-5 sets of 12-15).  Be careful when working your back that you don't build it too much and don't start with too much too soon.  The real reason my back muscles show is due to being lean: eat a good diet and frequent cardiovascular exercise will help back and ab muscles show a good deal more.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, OP.


----------



## MrsAriannaAmbers (Dec 10, 2009)

*I never realized hair is much deeper than whats on your head...I hear all the time...Arianna you have good hair...and I'm like what? Its soft, fine, breaking and thin...how can that be good hair?  When I see them with gorgeous, thick, luscious afros, buns, and wraps....

So now that I have sat and thought about it I think it goes beyond the hair typing system and its more so what's been instilled in us as what is considered to be "good hair".  The hair typing seems to be used a cover-up for folks who just want a way to be better than others and have mixed themselves in within folks who use the system genuinely to assist them with determining what products/services to use.  

I think that hair typing for me personally is not going to help my HHJ as much as knowing what ingredients are in my products and what my hair does/doesn't respond to...and really I have gotten the best advice on here thus far from the archived threads....sad but true...Newbies don't want to be stoned/accused/belittled which is why we really don't ask ?'s in the open which leads back to how some people are successfully creating their own HHJ following off of LHCF...*


----------



## gymfreak336 (Dec 10, 2009)

Leesh said:


> I must say that I disagree, I feel like, in order to learn or move forward with Your Healthy Hair Practices, You need Constructive Criticism, If your answers to questions are always Sugar-Coated then how will You ever know if what Your doing is working, I understand a Person may not want to be the "Meanie" here, but there is a way to say things without coming off as mean, but I do know, when I am looking for true answers, I Hope and Pray that You Ladies are being honest, or really there is no reason to even be a member here, what would be the purpose. I could look in the mirror and lie to Myself.



We can't be honest here. Start digging into some old threads and you will see that.


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 10, 2009)

MrsAriannaAmbers said:


> *I never realized hair is much deeper than whats on your head...I hear all the time...Arianna you have good hair...and I'm like what? Its soft, fine, breaking and thin...how can that be good hair? When I see them with gorgeous, thick, luscious afros, buns, and wraps....*
> 
> *So now that I have sat and thought about it I think it goes beyond the hair typing system and its more so what's been instilled in us as what is considered to be "good hair". The hair typing seems to be used a cover-up for folks who just want a way to be better than others and have mixed themselves in within folks who use the system genuinely to assist them with determining what products/services to use. *
> 
> *I think that hair typing for me personally is not going to help my HHJ as much as knowing what ingredients are in my products and what my hair does/doesn't respond to...and really I have gotten the best advice on here thus far from the archived threads....sad but true...Newbies don't want to be stoned/accused/belittled which is why we really don't ask ?'s in the open which leads back to how some people are successfully creating their own HHJ following off of LHCF...*


 
This is quite true about newbs. Many will hit you up in PM if they see you seem like you may know something and aren't mean! It can be overwheleming/confusing for a newb here and many times they're simply afraid to ask questions. The fact they folks are so clearly afraid to being lit up is a bad thing...very bad. Some YTers like *Leobody* patiently answer questions, so any wonder they get followings? 

Of course this can be overwhemling to receive such requests because they can want such detailed and precise info. 

The whole alleged point of hair typing it to make these things fairly self-explanatory but clearly it doesn't for many. If I judged the system by this alone, I'd say it was a failure. This is precisely why I'm not convinced of the usefulness of this stuff for practical and not descriptive purposes....it should be user friendly, but it clearly ain't. That too is another source of conflict.


----------



## jamaraa (Dec 10, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> We can't be honest here. Start digging into some old threads and you will see that.


 
 How will people ever improve if they never get any constructive criticism? Sometimes you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet. If you get 50-11 views and 2 responses, you know something's wrong, but not necessaily what it is. The permanently wounded and hurt stance is not helpful in aquiring useful feedback. I've said something to a poster who asked for help and got jammed by a 3rd party outta the blue, so even if it's NOT the person who asked that gets upset, some random person might meltdown on ya. I don't want nobody melting down in my face, esp if I'm trynna help someone...who would?

The problem is that you always gotta walk on eggshells cuz people get their knickers in a twist about something, even if it doesn't concern them. Some women simply think everything is about them and can't mind their own biz. You don't have the right to lose it on someone...NOPE! This is not a good thing folks, it's clogging up the works for good longhair info to get thru!


----------



## gymfreak336 (Dec 10, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> How will people ever improve if they never get any constructive criticism? Sometimes you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet. If you get 50-11 views and 2 responses, you know something's wrong, but not necessaily what it is. The permanently wounded and hurt stance is not helpful in aquiring useful feedback. I've said something to a poster who asked for help and got jammed by a 3rd party outta the blue, so even if it's NOT the person who asked that gets upset, some random person might meltdown on ya. I don't want nobody melting down in my face, esp if I'm trynna help someone...who would?
> 
> The problem is that you always gotta walk on eggshells cuz people get their knickers in a twist about something, even if it doesn't concern them. Some women simply think everything is about them and can't mind their own biz. You don't have the right to lose it on someone...NOPE! This is not a good thing folks, it's clogging up the works for good longhair info to get thru!



I remember a thread here about making waist length and well  people who know what I thread I am talking about already know how that went down  Constructive criticism is essential in any process. I wish I would have got more of it earlier on this hair thing.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Dec 10, 2009)

Just my personal opinions...

Hair typing has been helpful for me in trouble shooting my issues. Hair typing to me can be helpful if you take it for what it is. It's like body types...each one is different and has its advantages and disadvantages and you have to learn how to work within that framework to maximize what you have. When I look at this board and admire all of the lovely heads of hair, the women that become my hair idols are ones that have similar hair types to mine. I use people that are working with a similar baseline and have developed ways to reach their full potential. We tend to have similar issues so in that regard it has been nice. 

In regards to hair types as a whole, I am not going to act like every hair type is viewed in the same light. It's not, I know that, and it isn't anything personal. Some characteristics are going to be placed at a higher value by society in general...happens in every culture. In this case, I don't have the hair type that gets these benefits....it is what it is. The best I can do is work with what I have and that is all I can control.


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## jamaraa (Dec 10, 2009)

Kurlee said:


> it doesn't count unless u "look" the part


 
That's the kicker. Only in America is so vast a grouping of phenotype listed as one "race".  In most of the world, many of the people who "look Black" (whatever that means for the purposes of this discussion) nobody would say that they are. People's views of what Blacks look like is very much obscured by the one drop rule which grouped all people of any known African descent as "Black". The racial categories in the US are unique to the US. If what constitutes "race" is so absolute, how can so many people have different preceptions of it...why is it not a universal thing? *How can you be Black in Georgia and not Black in Bahia?*  

*One more thing folks....if you have blonde or red hair chances are you DIDN'T get this from a West African ancestor of yours. Sorry! To suggest this as a very probable explanation of where you got said trait is incredibly odd if not laughable.* Sometimes the obvious answer IS the answer....denial is a mutha!


----------



## AfroKink (Dec 10, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> That's the kicker. Only in America is so vast a grouping of phenotype listed as one "race".  In most of the world, many of the people who "look Black" (whatever that means for the purposes of this discussion) nobody would say that they are. People's views of what Blacks look like is very much obscured by the one drop rule which grouped all people of any known African descent as "Black". The racial categories in the US are unique to the US. If what constitutes "race" is so absolute, how can so many people have different preceptions of it...why is it not a universal thing? *How can you be Black in Georgia and not Black in Bahia?*
> 
> *One more thing folks....if you have blonde or red hair chances are you DIDN'T get this from a West African ancestor of yours. Sorry! To suggest this as a very probable explanation of where you got said trait is incredibly odd if not laughable.* Sometimes the obvious answer IS the answer....denial is a mutha!



I didn't understand this until moving to the states. I didn't understand how someone like Halle Berry, who is more white than black, can be considered 'the most beautiful black woman'. I think I've even made posts on here about it. I've sense had time to think and speak to people about it. Along these lines, I understand how people here can consider themselves to be 'black' and not like being called 'African American' let alone just 'African'. If you're only 8 tablespoon African and the whole rest of your ancestry is non-African, you are 'black' but are you 'African American'? (maybe?) 'African'? (maybe not?)

It's interesting. Learning a lot in this country


----------



## Computer Blue (Dec 10, 2009)

claudia05 said:


> Higher than 4a . It bothers me when people refer to type 3 as _higher_ than type 4...



_OMG_ had to thank you twice. I always think that and *sigh* and  at anything else said after that.


1<2<3<4

For anyone to refer to 3,2,1 as 
"higher" than 4 shows that they themselves buy into the madness as far as I am concerned. And it's a damned shame.

*exits*


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 10, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> We can't be honest here. Start digging into some old threads and you will see that.



Yup! i agree, but at the same time, many have demonstrated that they are not mature enough to be honest without being insulting or disrespectful.


----------



## Kurlee (Dec 10, 2009)

MrsAriannaAmbers said:


> *I never realized hair is much deeper than whats on your head...I hear all the time...Arianna you have good hair...and I'm like what? Its soft, fine, breaking and thin...how can that be good hair?  When I see them with gorgeous, thick, luscious afros, buns, and wraps....
> 
> So now that I have sat and thought about it I think it goes beyond the hair typing system and its more so what's been instilled in us as what is considered to be "good hair".  The hair typing seems to be used a cover-up for folks who just want a way to be better than others and have mixed themselves in within folks who use the system genuinely to assist them with determining what products/services to use.
> 
> I think that hair typing for me personally is not going to help my HHJ as much as knowing what ingredients are in my products and what my hair does/doesn't respond to...and really I have gotten the best advice on here thus far from the archived threads....sad but true...Newbies don't want to be stoned/accused/belittled which is why we really don't ask ?'s in the open which leads back to how some people are successfully creating their own HHJ following off of LHCF...*


good post!!


----------



## SherylsTresses (Dec 10, 2009)

I was beginning to wonder about this. erplexed


----------



## bludaydreamr (Dec 10, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> Yep. I remember a member saying "4z hair ain't cute". *Some naturals on this board still practice the good hair/bad hair thing. *


 
I just wanted to point out, it is not just naturals. Some or even most (relaxed and natural) of us grew up with a Good/Bad hair complex. I think it was unfair to just say naturals.  When the movie came out there were several threads that had good hair/ bad hair undertones, and they all weren't started by naturals. 



Irresistible said:


> I'm so sick of the bullsheeet thats been going on here .....*Emotional Response* I know......but I am!!!!!
> 
> we have lost so many long hairs, and long term members, and many more are signing up to bone out, all that will be *left is a bunch of knuckle head know it all's tripped up on stupid ish*! and that will be the forum


 
ITA. and I know I won't be here any more.



LaToya28 said:


> Excellent answer! In my own personal experience, and I'm going to be totally honest with you ladies, I am thinking of transitioning, but there are times when I see pictures of certain ladies with super kinky hair, and I'll think to myself *"I don't want to be natural if my hair looks like that."*


 
In so many words my best friend and mother said the same thing and recently.  I am so glad that I didn't allow my fears, or those of other to deter me from transitioning. Reconditioning yourself is not easy, but that is why I tell people try to transition because you also go through a mental transition.  HHJ




aegis said:


> Do I have my own biases? Most certainly. *But some women need to stop getting hurt over what nameless women on a forum think about your hair texture.* How do you possibly live constructive lives if you're so sensitive?


 
In the time I have been here about 3 years I have noticed it but more so in the past year.  This is a board that we should be able to draw inspiration and encouragment, but it is hard if only certain types are being encouraged or praised.  




Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> *i will admit this thread has been a fabulous read. there are so many educated women on here that can really write in a manner that i just sit there pondering and really digging deep.*
> 
> but on the same note i kinda want the thread locked cause i think it has potential to go to far... i dunno, i dont write as well as some so i cant really explain what i mean. i'm taking my but back to school lol


 
I say the same thing everyday, and appreciate the thoughts and opinions that are expressed.  As one posters said there has been a lot of animosity here latey.

OP to answer your question; NO, the two have always went hand in hand. According to my Aunt, when I was little because we were darker and had kinkier hair than her children SL was my terminal length.  She was a cosomotologist, so I believed her for years.


----------



## robot. (Dec 10, 2009)

OT: Why do some keep asking why people are concerned with others' hair? Aren't we on a HAIR board? What - are we supposed to specifically AVOID discussing their hair?


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## Leesh (Dec 10, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> We can't be honest here. Start digging into some old threads and you will see that.


 
So tell Me, What is the Point of this Forum thing, For converstaion? I tell you Ladies this much, I don't need to get on a board to lollygag with folks, I truly came here for Help with My hair, and if I can't get Real Help with My hair then, Please tell Me, "What is the Point"! People just need to be conscience of the way they deliver their replies, as IRL, Your delivery makes a World of difference, depending on how You say it, Period, Yes some are blatently mean, purposely, cause I have seen it, but If I ask, believe Me I want to know!


----------



## goodmorningruby (Dec 10, 2009)




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## gymfreak336 (Dec 10, 2009)

Leesh said:


> So tell Me, What is the Point of this Forum thing, For converstaion? I tell you Ladies this much, I don't need to get on a board to lollygag with folks, I truly came here for Help with My hair, and if I can't get Real Help with My hair then, Please tell Me, "What is the Point"! People just need to be conscience of the way they deliver their replies, as IRL, Your delivery makes a World of difference, depending on how You say it, Period, Yes some are blatently mean, purposely, cause I have seen it, but If I ask, believe Me I want to know!



Not everyone is like you. You would be suprised at how many people say they want an honest opinion and then when they get it, ignore it, or get sensitive and run away. This forum has changed a lot. You would really be surprised.


----------



## sylver2 (Dec 10, 2009)

^^there was a thread i think where people tried to be honest and very nice.  someone posted pics saying she made bsl i think.  she was barely apl..but many responded that while her hair was indeed beautiful and awesome progress, she hadn't quite made bsl yet and will hit bsl maybe in a few months.  she went off! she was pissed and would not believe it and called people haters.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Dec 10, 2009)

sylver2 said:


> ^^there was a thread i think where people tried to be honest and very nice.  someone posted pics saying she made bsl i think.  she was barely apl..but many responded that while her hair was indeed beautiful and awesome progress, she hadn't quite made bsl yet and will hit bsl maybe in a few months.  she went off! she was pissed and would not believe it and called people haters.



oh wow, really?  that's just silly... the internet has really become THAT serious! i remember when i 1st started my hair journey i posted a pic saying i made mbl...  i was advised otherwise by SEVERAL people lol... know what i did?  came back a month or 2 later saying i made mbl lol its not like we get trophies! ~though trophies would be nice


----------



## Leesh (Dec 10, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> Not everyone is like you. You would be suprised at how many people say they want an honest opinion and then when they get it, ignore it, or get sensitive and run away. This forum has changed a lot. You would really be surprised.


 
I am aware that everyone is not like Me, but that still doesn't negate the fact that, a Forum is based on opinions and criticism of some sort, the way I see it don't ask if You don't want the truth.


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## Aviah (Dec 10, 2009)

I think thin hair is connected to the idea we have of damaged hair, it tends to be thin. We also don't applaud shorter hair goals being met, because for a lot of us, short hair is the "norm" that we are coming to the forums to exceed. However NL for someone may be a big milestone not passed before. But its like joy, only you know the extent of something you are joyful about.
I think type 4b hair is beautiful in its own right. Do I want it? Sometimes. Could I handle it? I don't think so. I also think 3b is beautiful. Do I want it? Sometimes. Could I handle it? I really can't be bothered to learn a new head of hair TBH. To think hair is beautiful is one thing, to want it is another. To me, hair typing should only be used for two things: describing hair, or looking for those with similar textures to help with regimens. Even still, with a pinch of salt. Whatever you want to call it doesn't change what it is. 
Whatever you like, whatever you want, whatever you do, keep it healthy. Grow it long should you wish to do so. Loving all of you is important. But just as some will not like their bunions for the rest of their lives, some will never like their hair texture. Its the reasons why that are more important, and more telling than the preferences themselves.


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## Bene (Dec 10, 2009)

Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> oh wow, really?  that's just silly... the internet has really become THAT serious! i remember when i 1st started my hair journey i posted a pic saying i made mbl...  i was advised otherwise by SEVERAL people lol... know what i did?  came back a month or 2 later saying i made mbl lol its not like we get trophies! ~though *trophies would be nice*




They really would. Although, I can't imagine how I'd explain that to people when they come over.

Friend: What's that?
Me: That's my hair trophy


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## Leesh (Dec 10, 2009)

Bene said:


> They really would. Although, I can't imagine how I'd explain that to people when they come over.
> 
> Friend: What's that?
> Me: That's my hair trophy


 
LOL! Its hard enough explaining this HH journey were partaking in, could You imagine! erplexed


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## jamaraa (Dec 10, 2009)

ROBOTxcore said:


> OT: Why do some keep asking why people are concerned with others' hair? Aren't we on a HAIR board? What - are we supposed to specifically AVOID discussing their hair?


 
 Umm no. There's such a thing as nuance...the literal-mindedness is like . What *I* mean is why are people SO concerned about trying to pick someone's hair apart, specifically their declared texture? Even if they're wrong or lying, you're merely looking at a pic, so what makes you think you're any more accurate? *It looks desparate and silly to argue w/  someone about hair you've not seen or touched in real life*. 

Nothing wrong w/ talking about hair, but acting like you're an expert on someone else's head based on a pic is .

There are times when something is obvious...if they say they're waistlength and they are actually shoulder length, OK....but hair type and texture isn't so obvious. People bring their own issues to this tho, those who declare and those who argue w/ them.


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## robot. (Dec 10, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> Umm no. There's such a thing as nuance...the literal-mindedness is like . What *I* mean is why are people SO concerned about trying to pick someone's hair apart, specifically their declared texture? Even if they're wrong or lying, you're merely looking at a pic, so what makes you think you're any more accurate? *It looks desparate and silly to argue w/  someone about hair you've not seen or touched in real life*.
> 
> Nothing wrong w/ talking about hair, but acting like you're an expert on someone else's head based on a pic is .
> 
> There are times when something is obvious...if they say they're waistlength and they are actually shoulder length, OK....but hair type and texture isn't so obvious. People bring their own issues to this tho, those who declare and those who argue w/ them.



So, if it doesn't matter in the long run, why not just let people have their discussions, be it relevant or completely pointless? If people want to talk about things that seem superfluous, and even if they want to be "experts" based of a picture, why not let them? After all, it doesn't really matter, so it shouldn't be hurting anyone or anything.

And I meant in general, not just focusing on picking apart hair type (like what you were talking about).


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## jamaraa (Dec 11, 2009)

*Robot* come on...nobody's stopping anyone from having discussions about this issue (If only we could?! ) However, when folks get into petty arguments w/ others about this and take up the whole darned board w/ it, it gets old and boring. People been going on about this for years now, so we're hardly hearing anything new or enlightening. The tone of these discussion has a tendency to get ugly anyway and doesn't further the knowledge of hair care, IMHO. 

It's the petty squabbles and perpetually hurt feelings that's running off good people w/ useful info. *My policy is I NEVER argue w/ a woman about her hair...ever!* It's not that important...it's HER hair. Don't you understand that..it's not your hair. You have the freedom to do what you want, so why can't others w/o getting alot of nonsense thrown their way? Some folks use this 4absy3bats stuff to try and dictate how others should feel about their hair and care for it, not my bag at all. What you aren't seeming to understand is that there's an issue of degrees here. If it's not your hair, what's the issue? She can take your advice or not. 

The OP's question was "is the new paper bag test?"....nah, *it's the old ruler test. Slice it how you want, but dems the facts. * I think we know full well there's tons of stuff lurking under the emphamism of "hair typing" that some folks aren't being honest about.


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## Bene (Dec 11, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> [
> 
> *The OP's question was "is the new paper bag test?"....nah,* *it's the old ruler test. *




After seeing what I've seen here, I'm going to say yes. It's not as blatant as the paper bag test, but in the ways that _some_ people use it, it does become a way of determining a value. 


I think comparing it to the ruler test isn't exactly how it works though. The ruler test was to hold a ruler up to the strands to see if they were as straight, right? If yes, it's hard to compare. I mean, the hair-typing thing goes both ways. If someone's hair isn't coily enough, isn't the validity of their advice (and ethnicity) automatically questioned as well?  

Maybe the modern day version of the ruler test should be called the slinky/spiral test?


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## jamaraa (Dec 11, 2009)

The "ruler test" is metaphorical,* Bene*. (I sometimes forget folks are incredibly literal-minded around here ) My point in using that phrase was that hair as well as skin was qualified by certain known externals things (ie a paper bag or a ruler). IOW, when you said "paper bag" than meant light...you didn't need to literally hold a bag up to someone to get your point across. The new hair typing system is far more subtle, yet serves the same purposes in a less politically incorrect way. It's "code" for determing many things about a person w/o directly asking them. Since most women don't show their faces, this code tells you more than you can see if such info interests you. In short, it CAN be used as a measuring stick and/or a way to find out about things about folks that isn't ascertainable just by reading their words.

The system as it was intended to be used (a way for people to find out what products are techniques would likely work best for them) is not ONLY how it's being used.  Sure there are those who are using it as intended, but many more aren't? If they were, why so many meltdowns about it? How come people are asking "how come MY TYPE never gets praise" and the like? What does *that* have to do w/ products and techniques? Nothing. There are also those using this stuff to gratify their own ego and "gud huah" issues. I just wish folks would stop falling for the traps of the unspoken.


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## jamaraa (Dec 11, 2009)

*Bene* I'll tell you about an incident on the boards to illustrate my point. A new poster shows up w/ pics of her Afro. She's immediately asked "are you natural"? (Umm...how many relaxed heads are wearing 'fros? ) Her pics were clearly that of a natural who has a much looser texture than most folks who choose to wear Afros. OK..so what did I get from that? The code was asking if she was on the natural or relaxed "team" AND if she wasn't relaxed WHY is her hair so much straighter (mixed, etc..?) than most naturals here. Nobody had to come right out and ask it when they could do so in a more acceptable manner. That was a clear case of trying to size her up. 

Tell me, what did that have to do w/ products or tips?


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## Irresistible (Dec 11, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> *Bene* I'll tell you about an incident on the boards to illustrate my point. A new poster shows up w/ pics of her Afro. She's immediately asked "are you natural"? (Umm...how many relaxed heads are wearing 'fros? ) Her pics were clearly that of a natural who has a much looser texture than most folks who choose to wear Afros. OK..so what did I get from that? The code was asking if she was on the natural or relaxed "team" AND if she wasn't relaxed WHY is her hair so much straighter (mixed, etc..?) than most naturals here. Nobody had to come right out and ask it when they could do so in a more acceptable manner. That was a clear case of trying to size her up.
> 
> Tell me, what did that have to do w/ products or tips?


u and the giggle icon has me giggling now


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## Bene (Dec 11, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> The "ruler test" is metaphorical,* Bene*. (*I sometimes forget folks are incredibly literal-minded around here *) My point in using that phrase was that hair as well as skin was qualified by certain known externals things (ie a paper bag or a ruler). IOW, when you said "paper bag" than meant light...you didn't need to literally hold a bag up to someone to get your point across. The new hair typing system is far more subtle, yet serves the same purposes in a less politically incorrect way. It's "code" for determing many things about a person w/o directly asking them. Since most women don't show their faces, this code tells you more than you can see if such info interests you. In short, it CAN be used as a measuring stick and/or a way to find out about things about folks that isn't ascertainable just by reading their words.
> 
> The system as it was intended to be used (a way for people to find out what products are techniques would likely work best for them) is not ONLY how it's being used.  Sure there are those who are using it as intended, but many more aren't? If they were, why so many meltdowns about it? How come people are asking "how come MY TYPE never gets praise" and the like? What does *that* have to do w/ products and techniques? Nothing. There are also those using this stuff to gratify their own ego and "gud huah" issues. I just wish folks would stop falling for the traps of the unspoken.



Duuuuude, you have no idea. I'm about as literal minded as they come!!! Drives people absolutely batsh*t crazy


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## jamaraa (Dec 11, 2009)

*Bene* Being literal-minded isn't going to help you understand these issues you seem to want to understand. It's far more subtle than not. I'd suggest you read some Black American and Black/Colored history on the matter. It's not really disputed that these issues were very real w/ very real consequences.


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## Nya33 (Dec 11, 2009)

Mmm ive only paid mind to it for the purpose of finding what my hair can thrive with.


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## Supervixen (Dec 11, 2009)

jamaraa said:


> *Bene* I'll tell you about an incident on the boards to illustrate my point. A new poster shows up w/ pics of her Afro. She's immediately asked "are you natural"? (Umm...how many relaxed heads are wearing 'fros? ) Her pics were clearly that of a natural who has a much looser texture than most folks who choose to wear Afros. OK..so what did I get from that? The code was asking if she was on the natural or relaxed "team" AND if she wasn't *relaxed* WHY is her hair so much straighter (mixed, etc..?) than most naturals here. Nobody had to come right out and ask it when they could do so in a more acceptable manner. That was a clear case of trying to size her up.
> 
> Tell me, what did that have to do w/ products or tips?


 
Great explanation.

Does this happen frequently though?  

I've seen, textlaxed and heat damaged are used also.


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## MrsAriannaAmbers (Dec 11, 2009)

*
IMHO, lets call it what it is at this point LHCF High School...Its every bit of stepping back in high school.  When you walk in through the PAID doors your sized up and then thrown into a group...whether it be by hair type, length, # of posts/threads and etc...if your threads don't include pics of your hair...your attacked.  If you disagree/don't believe with someones about their ideals/beliefs/practices...someone has a smart a** remark.  If your hair isn't up to someone's par...someone will def point it out and put you in PM land.  If your not a certain hair type/length...you may/may not get any recognition/looks/responses.  Its all juvenile and I had definitely not expected it when I joined but I don't think it will ever just go completely away either, nothing is 100%. 

My expectations were when you get on LHCF whether you have pics, knowledge of haircare/products or you just want to let you short/long/natural/relaxed/texlaxed hair down that you are comfortable to do just that and have a great time.  This shouldn't be a place that your panties are twisted up because you didn't meet someone's expectations.  Don't we get enough of that in real life? With work, the kids, SO's and everything else life has to throw at us?  Whether new, old or in the middle, we all come here for laughs, encouragement, support, advice and criticism (when done right).  

The ideal would be can't we all get along at least in the haircare section!?! However I am definitely dreaming because as this is sholl called the internet...people are going to be people.  That's why I have always said that a person's persona comes out every bit through the computer because they can hide behind a screen name and say/act every bit of who they are in real life.  I can sit at my computer look at posts and let you know who has a life/friends, who's happy/miserable/vainglory, informational/helpful/insightful or who is just being petty/messy...It doesn't take much.  Its not rocket science to know how you been acting on this forum...I say do you but I will definitely hit the ignore button on that a** when it comes to me...

I came to this forum so that I can agree, disagree and/or be enlightened.  I don't really ever disagree in the HairCare area as handling my own hair is all foreign to me and I am learning at this point...Now when I grow my hair from my BC length to APL/MBL length then I can really discuss hair care practice with some knowledge...other than that I will keep it cute... and soak in all the haircare advice I can get on here...So if everyone has a little tact about what they say/how they respond to someone this should definitely be a pleasant experience for all.

Now to give ya'll a laugh cause yes, I had to go to work with it just like this (thank GOD I work in a call center and hoods can be worn)...I called myself doing a BC but ended up giving myself a mullet...DO NOT LAUGH...naw just kidding...enjoy  P.S. Yea I was watching that Black Visa Card Video because she made it to World Star Hip Hop Videos where I watch my gossip/funny videos...





*


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## jamaraa (Dec 11, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> Great explanation.
> 
> Does this happen frequently though?
> 
> I've seen, textlaxed and heat damaged are used also.


 
The last sentence I don't understand. 

Yes, to the rest of it. It happens quite frequently I find.


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## Supervixen (Dec 11, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> Great explanation.
> 
> Does this happen frequently though?
> 
> I've seen, textlaxed and heat damaged are used also.


 
@ *jamaraa* 

Instead of "Are you relaxed?" I've seen ladies say, 

"Are you textlaxed?"  
"You have heat damage."

to explain away why one's texture is looser than the viewer thinks it should be.  Heck, it happened to me, even though I clearly stated I was NATURAL.  Now that it's out there that it happens frequently, the OP is on to something.  

I get that it's an old phenomenom, but it is being applied on this board regularly.


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## jamaraa (Dec 11, 2009)

*Cyd* *Otay as Buckwheat would say*, I get ya!  Yes, I've seen that one too.


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## Embyra (Dec 11, 2009)

MissAlyssa said:


> I didn't understand this until moving to the states. I didn't understand how someone like Halle Berry, who is more white than black, can be considered 'the most beautiful black woman'. I think I've even made posts on here about it. I've sense had time to think and speak to people about it. Along these lines, I understand how people here can consider themselves to be 'black' and not like being called 'African American' let alone just 'African'. If you're only 8 tablespoon African and the whole rest of your ancestry is non-African, you are 'black' but are you 'African American'? (maybe?) 'African'? (maybe not?)
> 
> It's interesting. Learning a lot in this country




im not american but i do find the obsession with hair texture and embracing your texture something that i CANNOT relate to african americans seem to deal with a lot or hold on to a lot of baggage and deep rooted insecruities  when it comes to natural hair texture that black women like myself from other countries have never experienced before 




one thing i have noticed on this forum in particular is that SOME of the natural haired  black women on here all seem to assume we all have the same ''hair history'' and by that i mean that by going natural is the only way to except yourself not every black woman has been told her hair is nappy not every black woman cannot get a black man with her natural hair or runs into black men that do have ''issues'' with natural hair not every black woman has never seen there hair texture as they have always had a relaxer since day dot and not everyone black women self acceptance is wrapped up in there hair texture etc etc i know for some this will be hard to believe but it really is true when i was natural and now im relaxed i never felt ugly in either stage 

EVERYONE in my family is natural ....except moi  i have seen locs dreads old fashioned presses twist french pleats etc etc and in all of that our hair texture is all different and not once was a certain type classed as ''better'' 

people really give this hair typing more energy than it is needed the andre book was a guide not set in stone why cant people see it as JUST THAT??

the obsession with what other people think about your hair texture the amount of threads on here my co worker tod me my hair was nappy my boyfriend doesnt want me to go natural etc etc while i understand this is a place to vent etc until black people get a TRUE inner confidence only then will people understand what it means to DO YOU


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## Embyra (Dec 11, 2009)

ROBOTxcore said:


> OT: Why do some keep asking why people are concerned with others' hair? Aren't we on a HAIR board? What - are we supposed to specifically AVOID discussing their hair?



obviously we are concerned with hair which is why we all paid the money to join lol but when i say people are obsessed with hair im meaning hair texture not hair in general


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## lovenharmony (Dec 11, 2009)

Rain20 said:


> I've seen all hair types get love on this board. People have their preferences but overall long healthy hair wins on this board. It doesnt have to be about not accepting your roots. Mwedzi has beautiful hair and so does CelinaStarr. I think we can admire more than one hair type.


 

I just had to quote this!  I can only speak for myself, but I joined this forum to grow my hair long, so the hair typing thing never really was of much importance. I commend the ladies who BC no matter what! To this day I can't fully tell what my hair type is (combo of everything under the sun). All I know is that it's all mine and I couldn't be happier!  There will always be the "good hair" mentality amongst women of color, but hopefully there will be more ladies that will come fully to accept their hair for what it is and be thankful that they can grow it at all cause in reality it truly is a vanity thing.


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## katblack (Dec 13, 2009)

Cali*Rocks said:


> I have noticed lately a lot of people focusing extensively on hair type. To me it isn't that serious and never will be. However for many others it's something that makes them better than everybody else. When my mother was in Jack and Jill the paper bag test was something VERY real and in order to be apart of the group you should pass it  Do you feel some people will place extra emphasis on letting you know that their is a "3a or 3b or the elusive 3c" when you haven't even asked for that information? Or even lie about the TRUE textures of their hair to fit into a certain "Club" How do you feel about the issue?? Thoughts?


 SOO TRUE! The saddest part is, according to, Andre talks hair's book there *IS* no 3c.....


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## Janet' (Mar 24, 2010)

Hmm...After going back and reading through this thread...I can see different peoples' perspectives on this issue. I have mentioned a couple of times my "type", but mostly because the discussion called for such...I avoid using hair types because of the confusion. However, unfortunately, our "world" is made up of typing: race, gender, socioeconomic status, etc...I do think that at the end of the day, most (if not all) of us come here to feel empowered and gain knowledge...but, just like anywhere else (job, church, etc), a microcosm of the world (reality) can develop and all that comes along with that...very interesting thread, OP and great food for though IMHO.


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## vainღ♥♡jane (Mar 24, 2010)

i don't think there is anything new about it. ♥


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## NaturalBoss (Mar 24, 2010)

This is an interesting thread.  I haven't read every post because I'm at work.  I have no idea what my hair type is and I don't really care because I have yet to see any value (for me).  I've been told it was a 4a, but heck it might be 4z or 3b....I don't know.  My mom, sister and myself all have very different hair from each other but we use the same products and get the same results.  So I don't need to know my hair type from a product perspective.

All I do know is that I can rock an afro puff and on the other side my hair can get silky straight with one pass of a hot comb or flat iron.  After being straightened, my hair will revert back to nappy, kinky, curly, whatever, just the way I want it....so I love my hair no matter what the type is.

It's too bad that people find it necessary to lie about their hair type.


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## aquajoyice (Mar 24, 2010)

I always thought it rather odd that the Feature of the Month hasn't displayed a member with natural 4 Type hair. It's either straight or curly, that was my own observation the last few times i've checked it out. And not to lessen those featured but there is definitely a trend. I think all hair types are beautiful and should be on display to give motivation to all with varied hair types. IMO


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## ChristmasCarol (Mar 24, 2010)

aquajoyice said:


> I always thought it rather odd that the *Feature of the Month hasn't displayed a member with natural 4 Type hair*. It's either straight or curly, that was my own observation the last few times i've checked it out. And not to lessen those featured but there is definitely a trend. I think all hair types are beautiful and should be on display to give motivation to all with varied hair types. IMO


 
Wow, I can't believe it! 

After looking (ogling) at CelinaStar's update, I would think there'd be lots of ladies with gorgeous type 4 featured. That's truly disturbing.


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## BonBon (Mar 24, 2010)

aquajoyice said:


> I always thought it rather odd that the Feature of the Month hasn't displayed a member with natural 4 Type hair. It's either straight or curly, that was my own observation the last few times i've checked it out. And not to lessen those featured but there is definitely a trend. I think all hair types are beautiful and should be on display to give motivation to all with varied hair types. IMO



 I didn't notice this, will check it out.


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## ChristmasCarol (Mar 24, 2010)

Just checked and saw various ladies with 4a and 4a/3c mixes. Pinkskates was FOM not too long ago and she's 4a. I saw many type 4s going back several years.

I didn't see any 4b ladies, and I don't know what long 4b hair looks like. Can somebody direct me to a MBL or longer 4b fotki?


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## aquajoyice (Mar 25, 2010)

sipp100 said:


> Just checked and saw various ladies with 4a and 4a/3c mixes. Pinkskates was FOM not too long ago and she's 4a. I saw many type 4s going back several years.
> 
> I didn't see any 4b ladies, and I don't know what long 4b hair looks like. Can somebody direct me to a MBL or longer 4b fotki?



It hit me when checking out some post here and there are ladies with pics of natural 4 hair that is long and gorgeous. and it occurred to me that they aren't in the Feature of the Month. Now mind you I haven't been consistent enough to look through every single feature but it was clearly a trend after going back 7 months that they just weren't there. It's one of those little things that you wouldn't notice unless you're looking for it.


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## aquajoyice (Mar 25, 2010)

sipp100 said:


> Just checked and saw various ladies with 4a and 4a/3c mixes. Pinkskates was FOM not too long ago and she's 4a. I saw many type 4s going back several years.
> 
> I didn't see any 4b ladies, and I don't know what long 4b hair looks like. Can somebody direct me to a MBL or longer 4b fotki?



Oh and to answer your question  Here's a member that has 4b BSL length gorgeous hair. Here name is MWEDZI, she has info about her fotki in her profile. She was one of the members I was originally looking for in FOTM  I love her hair and her profile pic is gorgeous


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## L.Brown1114 (Mar 25, 2010)

i personally want to know my hair type due to products and how they react to certain ones and how my hair is going to look when it grows out. as far as people wanting looser curls who cares?? everyone has their opinion on whats beautiful let them. my opinion on whats beautiful is not all society. theirs my mom and the women who raised me and the women around me so its not all society/media mumbo jumbo you have to remember how complicated is the average human mind for us not like the same things. no matter how unique some1 is somebody had already been there done that ALWAYS. so let them lie to themselves about their hair because every1 lies to themselves about something whether its about a bad relationship or whatever you dont want to face reality on, cut them a little slack. sorry about the rant but im in a talkative mood


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