# 6 Year Old Arrested For Having Tantrum At School



## Black Ambrosia (Sep 22, 2019)

*'A literal mug shot of a 6-year-old girl:' Grandmother outraged over child's arrest*
*Tantrum led to girl being arrested at school*
*
ORLANDO, Fla.* - A local woman is speaking out after her 6-year-old granddaughter was handcuffed and arrested as a result of an in-school tantrum.

Meralyn Kirkland said she was shocked Thursday when she got a call saying a school resource officer at Lucious and Emma Nixon Academy, an Orlando charter school, arrested 6-year-old Kaia Rolle.

Kirkland said Rolle was acting out in class, a side effect of a lack of sleep from a medical condition, so she was sent to the office. While Rolle was there, a staff member grabbed her wrists in order to calm her down and that's when she lashed out and kicked, according to Kirkland.

She said Officer Dennis Turner didn't understand when she tried to explain Rolle's behavior.

"She has a medical condition that we are working on getting resolved, and he says, ''What medical condition?' 'She has a sleep disorder, sleep apnea,' and he says, 'Well, I have sleep apnea, and I don't behave like that,'" Kirkland said.

Rolle was taken to the Juvenile Assessment Center on a battery charge. 

"How do you do that to a 6-year-old child and because she kicked somebody?" Kirkland asked.

Speaking about the arrest Friday, Kirkland struggled to hold back tears.

"A literal mug shot of a 6-year-old girl," she said in disbelief.

Rolle tried to stay strong for her grandmother as she recalled the incident.

"I felt sad that my grandma was sad, and I really missed her," she said.

Orlando Police Department officials said Rolle was one of two children Turner arrested that day, the other was 8 years old. Per department policy, officers are required to seek approval from their watch commander before arresting anyone under 12, but according to Sgt. David Baker, Turner didn't do that.

An internal investigation into the arrests is ongoing.

While Kirkland now has to deal with the repercussions of the arrest, including an upcoming court date, she hopes no child has to experience what her granddaughter went through.

"No 6-year-old child should be able to tell somebody that they had handcuffs on them and they were riding in the back of a police car and taken to a juvenile center to be fingerprinted, mug shot," Kirkland said.


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 22, 2019)

I want the resource officer fired and I want this thrown out.


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 22, 2019)

*Florida school resource officer who arrested two kids, ages 6 and 8, is under investigation*

Authorities are investigating after an Orlando school resource officer arrested two elementary school students ages 6 and 8 on misdemeanor charges.

Officer Dennis Turner is facing an internal investigation because he failed to follow department policy that requires officers to obtain approval from a watch commander before arresting minors  younger than 12, Chief Orlando Rolon said in a statement.  Turner's duties have been suspended pending the outcome of the investigation.

"The Orlando Police Department has a policy that addresses the arrest of a minor and our initial finding shows the policy was not followed," Rolon said. "As a grandparent of three children less than 11 years old this is very concerning to me."

The 8-year-old was transported to and processed in a juvenile jail by an officer who was unaware the Thursday arrest hadn't been approved by a superior, Rolon said. The child was released to family members shortly after. 

Rolon said the officer transporting the 6-year-old, who was arrested in a separate incident, realized approval hadn't been obtained and stopped the process "immediately." The child was released back to the school before being processed at the Juvenile Assessment Center.

Police did not name the children because of child privacy laws, but Meralyn Kirkland told WKMG-TV that her granddaughter was one of the students arrested. She said the 6-year-old was arrested because she was acting out in class at Lucious and Emma Nixon Academy.

The school did not immediately return a request for comment.

Kirkland said her granddaughter kicked a staff member who grabbed her wrists in an attempt to calm her down, the station reported. Kirkland said she tried to explain to Turner that the behavior was the result of lack of sleep because of a medical condition that they are working on treating.

"He says, 'What medical condition?' 'She has a sleep disorder, sleep apnea,' and he says, 'Well, I have sleep apnea, and I don't behave like that,' " Kirkland told the station.

Kirkland said the first-grade student was taken to a juvenile detention center on a battery charge and has an upcoming court date as a result of the arrest.

"No 6-year-old child should be able to tell somebody that they had handcuffs on them and they were riding in the back of a police car and taken to a juvenile center to be fingerprinted, mug shot," Kirkland told WKMG-TV.


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## jasmatazz (Sep 23, 2019)

> "She has a medical condition that we are working on getting resolved, and he says, ''What medical condition?' 'She has a sleep disorder, sleep apnea,' and he says, '*Well, I have sleep apnea, and I don't behave like that*,'" Kirkland said.



No this fool did not compare his behavior as a grown man to that of a child. Smh.


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## Anacaona (Sep 23, 2019)

Not that this is acceptable either way but was this some scare tactic to ‘scare her straight’ or are they serious about these court dates and putting this on this little girls’ record?


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## Mitzi (Sep 23, 2019)

I'm assuming this family is Black?  The role of this SRO is to supply the school to jail pipeline for profit.  We need to be asking why they need them at the schools  because minorities are 3 times more likely to be arrested than White kids.   School shootings and other dangers?  Surely, we have them but, that is not the primary reason these schools employ SRO's  and I'm sure of it. This slipped in under our radar and now we view it as normal just as we now view surveillance of all our public activities as normal.


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## CarefreeinChicago (Sep 23, 2019)

This makes me so mad! Who doesn’t know how to control a 6 year old?


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## meka72 (Sep 23, 2019)




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## meka72 (Sep 23, 2019)




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## Ms. Tarabotti (Sep 23, 2019)

What's the charge for this 'vicious' criminal?  

It's not procedure to call, I don't know, the child's parents or grandparents or contact on record if the child has a problem in school? Are people not trained in how to respond to a child who might be having a meltdown? There was no need to grab her wrists.

And why does a cop with priors for child abuse and assault still allowed to be on the force and allowed contact with minors?


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## dicapr (Sep 23, 2019)

Ms. Tarabotti said:


> What's the charge for this 'vicious' criminal?
> 
> It's not procedure to call, I don't know, the child's parents or grandparents or contact on record if the child has a problem in school? Are people not trained in how to respond to a child who might be having a meltdown? There was no need to grab her wrists.
> 
> And why does a cop with priors for child abuse and assault still allowed to be on the force and allowed contact with minors?



There was no need to arrest the child. If the child has known behavior issues that can cause them to be a danger to themselves or others trained staff can restrain them. However grabbing someone by the wrist seems more like a self defense mode than anything else which I don’t blame the teacher for.


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## Laela (Sep 23, 2019)

Here's the vicious criminal with her grandma...



The cop sounds callous .. I'd think the effect of sleep-apnea is different on a full-grown adult than on a child.. why is he even allowed to work around children if he's been charged with aggravated abuse of a child?


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## PopLife (Sep 23, 2019)

Laela said:


> Here's the vicious criminal with her grandma...
> View attachment 451653
> 
> 
> The cop sounds callous ..* I'd think the effect of sleep-apnea is different on a full-grown adult than on a child.*. why is he even allowed to work around children if he's been charged with aggravated abuse of a child?



  My son recently had his adenoids and tonsils removed due to sleep-apnea. He was falling asleep during class and having a lot of behavioral issues in school. Since the surgery (not even six months ago) we have seen a huge improvement in his behavior. This story hurts my heart because people do not understand how serious sleep deprivation is.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Sep 23, 2019)

CarefreeinChicago said:


> This makes me so mad! Who doesn’t know how to control a 6 year old?




Not all kids can be controlled, prime example of the video of the little aa girl a few months back tearing up a class room while her teacher calming recorded her, she was definitely uncontrollable.


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## dicapr (Sep 23, 2019)

Laela said:


> Here's the vicious criminal with her grandma...
> View attachment 451653
> 
> 
> The cop sounds callous .. I'd think the effect of sleep-apnea is different on a full-grown adult than on a child.. why is he even allowed to work around children if he's been charged with aggravated abuse of a child?



who knows why he is allowed to work. But the fact that he has sleep apnea and his rage issues may go hand and hand. But as an adult he should be able to control himself. Children cannot.


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## Laela (Sep 23, 2019)

All the more reason for him to be more empathetic concerning the child and be more understanding toward the grandmom.. if he cannot control himself, he should not be a police officer




dicapr said:


> who knows why he is allowed to work. *But the fact that he has sleep apnea and his rage issues may go hand and hand.* But as an adult he should be able to control himself. Children cannot.


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## Theresamonet (Sep 23, 2019)

The first article says the 6 year old was arrested, taken to a juvenile center, mug shot and fingerprinted. And there’s a pending court case.

The second article says that the transporting officer realized there was no approval to arrest the 6 year old, and immediately released the child back to the school. And never took the child to the juvenile center.

Which is it?


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## Shula (Sep 23, 2019)




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## dicapr (Sep 23, 2019)

Laela said:


> All the more reason for him to be more empathetic concerning the child and be more understanding toward the grandmom.. if he cannot control himself, he should not be a police officer



Being chronically sleep deprived does not yield reasonable responses or empathy. As a raging insomniac when you are going through a no sleep phase you have zero patience. You are impaired. And you tend to be over emotional and over react.

But as an adult you need to recognize the situation and take appropriate action. Adults can not get mad and throw temper tantrums and arrest 6 year olds.

I have had to explain my situation to my supervisor before and take unplanned vacation days until I was able to get myself together. At no time did I think it was ok to take it out on others.


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## dancinstallion (Sep 24, 2019)

I didn't know the officer is black. 

He didn't have to arrest her.

Let me ask ya'll 
If the little girl is kicking people and tearing up the place, How should the staff have handled it?


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## LavenderMint (Sep 24, 2019)

Theresamonet said:


> The first article says the 6 year old was arrested, taken to a juvenile center, mug shot and fingerprinted. And there’s a pending court case.
> 
> The second article says that the transporting officer realized there was no approval to arrest the 6 year old, and immediately released the child back to the school. And never took the child to the juvenile center.
> 
> Which is it?


I thought they meant two different children, the 6 year old & an 8 year old, and the 8 year olds transporting officer realized the lack of approval.


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## Theresamonet (Sep 24, 2019)

LavenderMint said:


> I thought they meant two different children, the 6 year old & an 8 year old, and the 8 year olds transporting officer realized the lack of approval.



It says the 6 year olds transporting officer.



> *Rolon said the officer transporting the 6-year-old*, who was arrested in a separate incident, realized approval hadn't been obtained and stopped the process "immediately." The child was released back to the school before being processed at the Juvenile Assessment Center.


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## LavenderMint (Sep 24, 2019)

Theresamonet said:


> It says the 6 year olds transporting officer.


Oh, yikes!! I read that completely backwards... likely because you’re right and it doesn’t make sense.



dancinstallion said:


> I didn't know the officer is black.
> 
> He didn't have to arrest her.
> 
> ...


At my school, this wouldn’t even be considered behavior worthy of calling school police- not for a six year old child. In the time I’ve been teaching, I’ve been hit, kicked, punched, etc by normally developing 4-6 year old children. Acceptable, no, not by a long shot. But we knew these children had underlying issues effecting them and that they needed care & compassion more than punishment. If the student is in crisis, the mental health support team is called- school therapist, social worker, school psychologist, etc.
 The only time we’ve called the police has been in cases for older children in the midst of crisis, where self-harm has been imminent.


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## LavenderMint (Sep 24, 2019)

@dancinstallion your question and my response made me go back & look up the school. They seem to be a very small charter school that is growing with their students. It is highly possible that they do not have the resources, staff or training to deal with possibly “problematic” students.


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## HappilyLiberal (Sep 24, 2019)

Theresamonet said:


> The first article says the 6 year old was arrested, taken to a juvenile center, mug shot and fingerprinted. And there’s a pending court case.
> 
> The second article says that the transporting officer realized there was no approval to arrest the 6 year old, and immediately released the child back to the school. And never took the child to the juvenile center.
> 
> Which is it?



There were two kids.  Baby girl was arrested and taken downtown.  They ordered rent-a-cop to take the second child back.


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## HappilyLiberal (Sep 24, 2019)

Theresamonet said:


> It says the 6 year olds transporting officer.



That's because they got the age of the 8 year-old wrong.  It turns out that kid was six too!


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## Theresamonet (Sep 24, 2019)

HappilyLiberal said:


> That's because they got the age of the 8 year-old wrong.  It turns out that kid was six too!



That explains it. Thanks!


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## Shula (Sep 25, 2019)

I think character comes into play here. I have been a raging insomniac since the age of 17. I sleep 2-4 hours a night on average lately. When my baby was sick with liver failure, I went DAYS without a wink at times because I'm told that patients with serious liver disease have vicious sleep disturbance and I had to be on deck for caregiving. All this to say, I don't care how much sleep a person is not getting, if you are a decent human being, it would never occur to you to harm a child. If it does occur to you to hurt people because you're sleepy and tired, become a hermit. All sorts of people in many situations the world over go without sleep for whatever reason and don't use it as an excuse to hurt or lash out at others.

As noted by this dude's history, he is simply a bad egg.


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## Evolving78 (Sep 25, 2019)

Mitzi said:


> I'm assuming this family is Black?  The role of this SRO is to supply the school to jail pipeline for profit.  We need to be asking why they need them at the schools  because minorities are 3 times more likely to be arrested than White kids.   School shootings and other dangers?  Surely, we have them but, that is not the primary reason these schools employ SRO's  and I'm sure of it. This slipped in under our radar and now we view it as normal just as we now view surveillance of all our public activities as normal.


This has been going on for the last 30 years in predominately black public schools. I know of this because I speak from experience. I have attended predominately white and black and have definitely seen the difference. And I see an office come to the school and pull up children’s registration records and pull children out of class all of the time.


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## Evolving78 (Sep 25, 2019)

LavenderMint said:


> @dancinstallion your question and my response made me go back & look up the school. They seem to be a very small charter school that is growing with their students. It is highly possible that they do not have the resources, staff or training to deal with possibly “problematic” students.


Nah. That’s standard..


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## Evolving78 (Sep 25, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> I didn't know the officer is black.
> 
> He didn't have to arrest her.
> 
> ...


Call the parents, get the dean,  school social worker, resource teacher, and or school psychologist.  Also the girl may need to be evaluated due to her medical condition.


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## LivingInPeace (Sep 25, 2019)

dicapr said:


> who knows why he





Evolving78 said:


> Call the parents, get the dean,  school social worker, resource teacher, and or school psychologist.  Also the girl may need to be evaluated due to her medical condition.


But during the time that you’re calling and waiting for the parents, what do you do with the child? I’ve never worked in a school and this isn’t something that I ever witnessed as a student. So I’m genuinely curious. I don’t know what you do when children get physical.


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## HappilyLiberal (Sep 25, 2019)

LivingInPeace said:


> But during the time that you’re calling and waiting for the parents, what do you do with the child? I’ve never worked in a school and this isn’t something that I ever witnessed as a student. So I’m genuinely curious. I don’t know what you do when children get physical.



You remove the child from the classroom until those other resources can arrive.  There's the nurse's office and the school counselor's office.  And, removing the child from the stimulant (classroom) will likely result in her starting to calm down which would make police intervention unnecessary in the first place!


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## Evolving78 (Sep 25, 2019)

LivingInPeace said:


> But during the time that you’re calling and waiting for the parents, what do you do with the child? I’ve never worked in a school and this isn’t something that I ever witnessed as a student. So I’m genuinely curious. I don’t know what you do when children get physical.


That’s why you get trained professionals involved. Those people should be in the building to assist such matters.  I have been through those types of experiences. And that’s why it is best to have an emergency contact that is nearby. I’m very close, within 5-7 mins because of my children’s conditions. That’s something parents with children with such conditions need to consider. And it is best to have a behavioral plan in place for things of that nature. That’s where getting the child evaluated for an IEP, or 504 plan is a perfect start. Children with asthma, allergies, autoimmune conditions have those in place, especially when they can’t verbally communicate properly at the time of a crisis. Those plans are not just for children with special needs.


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## dancinstallion (Sep 25, 2019)

Evolving78 said:


> Call the parents, get the dean,  school social worker, resource teacher, and or school psychologist.  Also the girl may need to be evaluated due to her medical condition.



It is an elementary school so no psychologists, no dean, no counselor, and no social worker.
My kids had none of those things at their high performing highly rated elementary school.



Evolving78 said:


> Nah. That’s standard..



No it's not.


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## dancinstallion (Sep 25, 2019)

HappilyLiberal said:


> You remove the child from the classroom until those other resources can arrive.  There's the nurse's office and the school counselor's office.  And, removing the child from the stimulant (classroom) will likely result in her starting the calm down which would make police intervention unnecessary in the first place!



I am a nurse and what exactly do you want me to do with a kicking and screaming child while the parents aren't answering the phone or haven't made it up there yet to get their kid? 
Please enlighten me because we aren't trained to deal with tantrums.

In real life parents don't answer the phone because they know you are calling about their bad behaving child.


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## Evolving78 (Sep 25, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> It is an elementary school so no psychologists, no dean, no counselor, and no social worker.
> My kids had none of those things at their high performing highly rated elementary school.


Then if a school doesn’t provide those things, a child would need to be pulled out and put into a school that can, or even get into a homeschool program with a small number of students.  And I’m sorry I’m unaware of a school not providing those things unless it is a private school that doesn’t use their private funding to provide support and resources for children with such issues.  A school district  that accepts funding from the government has to provide the most least restricted environment for children with such issues, so what happens to the children that perform well academically, but may have other conditions or issues? You pull them out, or you pay for a paraprofessional for your children.


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## Reinventing21 (Sep 25, 2019)

In public schools there are staff members, who have been specifically and formally trained on how to legally restrain a child.  These may include teachers, security and other staff.

If a young child is physically out of control, one or more of those trained staff is called to restrain the child.   Public schools also have part time or full time psychologist and social worker who are usually there to help deescalate along with Special Ed. teachers who are also trained (and very good at it) to deescalate.The parents are informed and if necessary the parents may decide to take them home.  It is not always necessary, and the goal is usually to keep the child in school except in cases where a child harms another child.

That said, I don't know about charter and private schools as their rules and regulations are different.

Arresting a child for a tantrum is deplorable.  I do hope however, that the child with insomnia issues gets more help as that is not healthy for the developing brain. If her health issues were not documented with clear instructions in the school system, then her family needs to do that ASAP while she works with the little girl.

Some people can handle insomnia well and never seem to have ill side effects. Others, though, can become potentially violent.  Just like with other mental health disorders, some people can have hallucinations and never hurt a fly, while others...


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## Evolving78 (Sep 25, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> I am a nurse and what exactly do you want me to do with a kicking and screaming child while the parents aren't answering the phone or haven't made it up there yet to get their kid?
> Please enlighten me because we aren't trained to deal with tantrums.
> 
> In real life parents don't answer the phone because they know you are calling about their bad behaving child.


Wow. See the nursing staff at my children’s schools have been wonderful and established a great relationship with mine and the other students. The nurses were part of my children’s intervention plans. I do understand that there are parents that don’t answer the phone.  My children are in elementary school and middle school. I empathize with staff members about dealing with children with troubling issues.


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## dancinstallion (Sep 25, 2019)

Evolving78 said:


> Then if a school doesn’t provide those things, a child would need to be pulled out in a school that can, or even get into a homeschool program with a small number of students.  And I’m sorry I’m unaware of a school not providing those things unless it is a private school that doesn’t use their private funding to provide support and resources for children with such issues.  A school distreict that accepts funding from the government has to provide the most least restricted environment for children with such issues, so what happens to the children that perform well academically, but may have other conditions or issues? You pull them out right, or you pay for a paraprofessional for your children.



Houston elementary magnets schools do not provide those services. There are special education teachers and a speech pathologist and that about it.


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## dancinstallion (Sep 25, 2019)

Reinventing21 said:


> In public schools there are staff members, who have been specifically and formally trained on how to legally restrain a child.  These may include teachers, security and other staff.
> 
> If a young child is physically out of control, one or more of those trained staff are called to restrain the child.   Public schools also have part time or full time psychologist and social worker who are usually there to help deescalate along with Special Ed. teachers who are also trained (and very good at it) to deescalate.The parents are informed and if necessary the parents may decide to take them home.  It is not always necessary, and the goal is usually to keep the child in school except in cases where a child harms another child.
> 
> ...



Also not true about staff being trained to properly restrain kids.
At my kids school a black and white kid both had tantrums and tore the class room up. Principal tried to restrain the black kid and was kicked. Black kid was expelled. New rule implemented that staff can't touch the kids. White kid tears class room up the next year and no one touched him. Everyone exited the room and he pulled down a book shelf.  He got to stay because he had an IEP.


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## LivingInPeace (Sep 25, 2019)

I don’t know how people manage to teach/work in schools now. I feel like too much is being demanded of teachers. You’re supposed to accept being hit by students who are often larger than you. From what I’ve heard from teachers, you’re supposed to pass students who have never done their homework. 
What is the solution?


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## Mitzi (Sep 25, 2019)

[QUOTE="Evolving78, post: 25323437, member: 2496] And I see an office come to the school and pull up children’s registration records and pull children out of class all of the time.[/QUOTE]

Did they return to class?  I'm also wondering if those kids were in the govt. system receiving some type of aid.  And any type of problems with behavior at any schools would certainly flag them.  There was a judge in PA who ended up in jail for supplying poor White kids and minorities to the juvenile jails.  I'm disgusted.


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## Evolving78 (Sep 25, 2019)

Mitzi said:


> [QUOTE="Evolving78, post: 25323437, member: 2496] And I see an office come to the school and pull up children’s registration records and pull children out of class all of the time.



Did they return to class?  I'm also wondering if those kids were in the govt. system receiving some type of aid.  And any type of problems with behavior at any schools would certainly flag them.  There was a judge in PA who ended up in jail for supplying poor White kids and minorities to the juvenile jails.  I'm disgusted.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and yes. But you are on to something.


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## Evolving78 (Sep 25, 2019)

LivingInPeace said:


> I don’t know how people manage to teach/work in schools now. I feel like too much is being demanded of teachers. You’re supposed to accept being hit by students who are often larger than you. From what I’ve heard from teachers, you’re supposed to pass students who have never done their homework.
> What is the solution?


It’s a funding issue. It all comes down to funding. If the child test well and shows the ability to do the work, as long as there are not failing 5 or more of the common core classes, the school passes them. Holding a child back for homework isn’t a big enough reason these days.


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## LivingInPeace (Sep 25, 2019)

Evolving78 said:


> It’s a funding issue. It all comes down to funding. If the child test well and shows the ability to do the work, as long as there are not failing 5 or more of the common core classes, the school passes them. Holding a child back for homework isn’t a big enough reason these days.


Lord, have mercy. I’m speechless every time I talk to a teacher.


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## prettyinpurple (Sep 25, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> It is an elementary school so no psychologists, no dean, no counselor, and no social worker.
> My kids had none of those things at their high performing highly rated elementary school.
> No it's not.


Your kids' school doesn't have a counselor? Even a part-time one? That seems outrageous.

Little kids throw tantrums.  It can't be the first that someone who works at an elementary school has seen a kid throw a fit or have a meltdown.  I'd be surprised if teachers weren't given any instructions on how to deal with students in that state (or in general with kids of any age).  I can imagine that the training could be lackluster due to funding though.

I wonder if elementary education majors discuss this in their classes?  I assume people in Pre-K education classes must get that info since small kids can't verbalize their feelings well.



dancinstallion said:


> Also not true about staff being trained to properly restrain kids.
> At my kids school a black and white kid both had tantrums and tore the class room up. Principal tried to restrain the black kid and was kicked. Black kid was expelled. New rule implemented that staff can't touch the kids. White kid tears class room up the next year and no one touched him. Everyone exited the room and he pulled down a book shelf.  He got to stay because he had an IEP.


I don't think this means that staff weren't trained on how to restrain kids though, just means that the kid got a kick in which is not surprising.

I hope the black kid's family fought the school district over that suspension.


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## dicapr (Sep 25, 2019)

prettyinpurple said:


> Your kids' school doesn't have a counselor? Even a part-time one? That seems outrageous.
> 
> Little kids throw tantrums.  It can't be the first that someone who works at an elementary school has seen a kid throw a fit or have a meltdown.  I'd be surprised if teachers weren't given any instructions on how to deal with students in that state (or in general with kids of any age).  I can imagine that the training could be lackluster due to funding though.
> 
> ...




Little kids throw tantrums but most have outgrown that behavior by the time they get to school.  A 6 year old throwing a temper tantrum to the point of hitting and kicking usually has some underlying issues like this little girl. So no it isn’t normal for a 6 year old to be hitting and kicking.


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## LivingInPeace (Sep 25, 2019)

What I want to know is why are there so many children with special needs? Is it the chemicals in the food?


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## prettyinpurple (Sep 25, 2019)

dicapr said:


> Little kids throw tantrums but most have outgrown that behavior by the time they get to school.  A 6 year old throwing a temper tantrum to the point of hitting and kicking usually has some underlying issues like this little girl. So no it isn’t normal for a 6 year old to be hitting and kicking.


I know that every kid doesn't do it, but it certainly isn't rare.  I've seen plenty of kids that age having tantrums in public lol.  Elementary school staff should be prepared for a young kid having a meltdown or tantrum.


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## Alta Angel (Sep 25, 2019)

This.  An autistic student with an IEP flew into a rage a knocked over a bookshelf in my room.  I calmly escorted the students out of the room and had an administrator called.  Fortunately he didn't completely tear the room up.  I am not about to restrain a 14 year old boy that is completely agitated.  



dancinstallion said:


> Also not true about staff being trained to properly restrain kids.
> At my kids school a black and white kid both had tantrums and tore the class room up. Principal tried to restrain the black kid and was kicked. Black kid was expelled. New rule implemented that staff can't touch the kids. White kid tears class room up the next year and no one touched him. Everyone exited the room and he pulled down a book shelf.  He got to stay because he had an IEP.


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## LavenderMint (Sep 25, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> It is an elementary school so no psychologists, no dean, no counselor, and no social worker.
> My kids had none of those things at their high performing highly rated elementary school.
> 
> 
> ...


Basically every school district is different and even within the districts, every school is different. And charter schools are a whole different animal altogether. (The antics of our local charters have soured them for me in a BIG way)

My PK-5 school has a school psychologist (misnomer because most of what they do is testing & interpreting tests), a social worker, a mental health clinician, & a partnership with a free mental health program that provides counseling and wrap-around services (home & school mental health counseling). We have a nurse but she is for medical emergencies. 

When I had a pk kid who threw massive tantrums (last year & 2years before), of the chair throwing & I’m going to punch you lady- sort, I _INSISTED_ on solutions being made for the safety of myself and the other students. I am NOT trained to restrain or deescalate a child who has reached that point of crisis. We are not that kind of school (it would be considered a more restrictive environment). So I trained my kids that when he reached for that first chair, I said the cue & my class would evacuate the room. It was easier than trying to deal with him. My philosophy was “this is above my pay grade” and I texted all the above mentioned people to deal with him. 
But we also knew this was a very young child dealing with trauma & treated him as such. 

With children that young, getting IEPs or 504s are almost impossible unless they were previously identified by their daycare (like Head Start), identified by pediatrician, or born with a diagnosable condition. In the 11 years I’ve been teaching, I have yet to see a child I *KNEW* and documented a need for an IEP get one before 1st grade. 

My initial thought when I saw it was a charter was to wonder just how interested they were in actually helping this child to begin with. The charters in my area will typically enroll anyone they can get- even when warned by parents that their child is “tough”, keep them long enough to secure the state funds and then boot them at the slightest infraction because they can. Then the public schools see an influx of “problem” children in October-November because the count occurs at the end of September in my district and those funds do not follow the child.


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## dicapr (Sep 25, 2019)

prettyinpurple said:


> I know that every kid doesn't do it, but it certainly isn't rare.  I've seen plenty of kids that age having tantrums in public lol.  Elementary school staff should be prepared for a young kid having a meltdown or tantrum.



It might not be rare but it is not developmentally appropriate. Either the parents never corrected the behavior or there is something else going on  with the child. It’s not normal developmental behavior for that age group.  If a six year old is still having meltdowns and tantrums it is cause for concern or the parents need to seek new strategies for controlling  that behavior.


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## quirkydimples (Sep 25, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> *In real life parents don't answer the phone because they know you are calling about their bad behaving child.*


This. I’m at a HS campus, but we have an elementary AP walking around with a serious bite mark on her leg (among other injuries) because of a kindergartner whose parents refuse to have the child evaluated.

At the HS level, at a certain point the kid is going to be arrested because they’re putting other people’s safety at risk. At the elementary school
level, it’s much trickier, but can usually be controlled because of their size.

At the HS level, I have dealt with many parents who just stop answering my calls because they don’t want to deal with their kid’s behavior.


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## prettyinpurple (Sep 26, 2019)

dicapr said:


> It might not be rare but it is not developmentally appropriate. Either the parents never corrected the behavior or there is something else going on  with the child. It’s not normal developmental behavior for that age group.  If a six year old is still having meltdowns and tantrums it is cause for concern or the parents need to seek new strategies for controlling  that behavior.


We can agree to disagree.  Either way, it's not so rare as to be unexpected in an elementary school environment.

A 6 year old can still get worked up and be unable to express her feelings verbally in a meaningful way, which can lead to a tantrum or meltdown especially if there's an underlying medical condition.  I know the after school meltdown is a real thing with early elementary age kids. Or a meltdown when they're tired, or had a long day with lots of activity. I don't think a tantrum or two is cause for concern.

From the American Academy of Pediatrics: https://www.healthychildren.org/Eng...ication-discipline/Pages/Temper-Tantrums.aspx
"*Choose your battles and accommodate when you can*. Sometimes you have to give in a little to settle yourself; that’s OK. However, your consistency from day to day is key in reducing the level and frequency of tantrums. So is time. Although most tantrums happen in 1- to 3-year-old children, many children continue to throw tantrums into the school years."

That link also mentions a zero tolerance policy for hitting, kicking, etc.

Whew it's hard being a parent. Once my friends started having kids and I started hanging out with the kids more, I had more sympathy for the times when kids have tantrums and meltdowns.  Sometimes you just gonna let it run its course (if there's no danger to the child or anyone of course).  I definitely don't judge strangers when I see it in public.



quirkydimples said:


> This. I’m at a HS campus, but we have an elementary AP walking around with a serious bite mark on her leg (among other injuries) because of a kindergartner whose parents refuse to have the child evaluated.
> 
> At the HS level, at a certain point the kid is going to be arrested because they’re putting other people’s safety at risk. At the elementary school
> level, it’s much trickier, but can usually be controlled because of their size.
> ...


I can't imagine working in a high school when kids get violent.  I'd just call security and get out of the way.


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## dicapr (Sep 26, 2019)

prettyinpurple said:


> We can agree to disagree.  Either way, it's not so rare as to be unexpected in an elementary school environment.
> 
> A 6 year old can still get worked up and be unable to express her feelings verbally in a meaningful way, which can lead to a tantrum or meltdown especially if there's an underlying medical condition.  I know the after school meltdown is a real thing with early elementary age kids. Or a meltdown when they're tired, or had a long day with lots of activity. I don't think a tantrum or two is cause for concern.
> 
> ...




Yes we can agree to disagree. A 6 year old without underlying issues should not be kicking and hitting. Yes they get frustrated and cry ect but hitting kicking biting isn’t ok. Most kids get kicked out of preschool after the toddler room for that behavior.


This desire for control often shows up as saying "no" often and having *tantrums*. *Tantrums* are worsened by the fact that the child may not have the vocabulary to express his or her feelings. *Tantrums*usually begin in children 12 to 18 months old. They get worse between *age* 2 to 3, then decrease until *age* 4.May 17, 2019
MedlinePlus (.gov) › ency › article
*Temper*


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## prettyinpurple (Sep 26, 2019)

dicapr said:


> Yes we can agree to disagree. A 6 year old without underlying issues should not be kicking and hitting. Yes they get frustrated and cry ect but hitting kicking biting isn’t ok. Most kids get kicked out of preschool after the toddler room for that behavior.
> 
> 
> This desire for control often shows up as saying "no" often and having *tantrums*. *Tantrums* are worsened by the fact that the child may not have the vocabulary to express his or her feelings. *Tantrums*usually begin in children 12 to 18 months old. They get worse between *age* 2 to 3, then decrease until *age* 4.May 17, 2019
> ...


Yes I'm familiar with this article and yes you forgot the rest of the paragraph that says "After age 4, they rarely occur. Being tired, hungry, or sick, can make tantrums worse or more frequent" lol.  My point is that it can occur in elementary school and it is not something that should surprise staff. I'd be surprised if a kindergarten or first grade teacher went an entire year without seeing a kid have a meltdown or tantrum.  Yes, frequent tantrums and violent ones do need to be addressed by parents and the appropriate doctors, therapists, psychologists, counselors, etc.  

In an ideal world, staff would have the appropriate training and backup help for these situations.  It's sad when they do not have it.

Suspending kids from pre-school is a whole 'nother issue that bothers me and disproportionately affects black kids.


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## HappilyLiberal (Sep 26, 2019)

LivingInPeace said:


> What I want to know is why are there so many children with special needs? Is it the chemicals in the food?



In a word...  yes...  also, back-in-the-day...  We just called those monsters bad and beat them!


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## Reinventing21 (Sep 26, 2019)

I am not sure how you interpreted my meaning of staff, but to clarify I did not mean ALL staff. I mean that there are staff members in the  building who have been formally trained for these situations. It is usually just a couple or handful of people that get the training as it is done by way of volunteers.

This was encouraged to avoid legal issues with adults trying to control.students. You are right that teachers and other staff are told not to engage in restraining or physically controlling students. Only certified staff with proper training are allowed to avoid improper handling of children as well as to protect staff from injuries as well.

Regarding your school, it is frustrating and messed up that kids with chronic violent behaviors are permitted to remain in the class due to an IEP. That sends the wrong message as everyone knows that the law in the real world will not care about IEPs.

It is a lose-lose situation if no one in the building is trained. If the child hurts himself in a room by himself, there is a problem and the child obviously should not be around other children either.



dancinstallion said:


> Also not true about staff being trained to properly restrain kids.
> At my kids school a black and white kid both had tantrums and tore the class room up. Principal tried to restrain the black kid and was kicked. Black kid was expelled. New rule implemented that staff can't touch the kids. White kid tears class room up the next year and no one touched him. Everyone exited the room and he pulled down a book shelf.  He got to stay because he had an IEP.


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## LivingInPeace (Sep 26, 2019)

HappilyLiberal said:


> In a word...  yes...  also, back-in-the-day...  We just called those monsters bad and beat them!


I didn’t want to say it but it’s true. You could cut up if you wanted to. But it would be dealt with swiftly. Ain’t nobody care if you had a “condition “. Then your parents would be advised and they would be invited to help “adjust “ your attitude as well.


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## quirkydimples (Sep 26, 2019)

prettyinpurple said:


> I can't imagine working in a high school when kids get violent.  I'd just call security and get out of the way.


It can be tough. I’m 5’3”. I’m not about to get pummeled by a man-sized kid. 

Part of the problem is training teachers not to get into power struggles with ED kids (really...with _any_ kid, but that’s a whole ‘nother post).


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## Reinventing21 (Sep 26, 2019)

quirkydimples said:


> It can be tough. I’m 5’3”. I’m not about to get pummeled by a man-sized kid.
> 
> Part of the problem is training teachers not to get into power struggles with ED kids (really...with _any_ kid, but that’s a whole ‘nother post).


^^^^YES, this!!!!

Too many teachers start arguing with kids like they're a kid. I have seen some deliberately provoke students so they can get written up and the teacher can throw up her hands like well those kids are bad.

It is infuriating.


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## Evolving78 (Sep 27, 2019)

HappilyLiberal said:


> In a word...  yes...  also, back-in-the-day...  We just called those monsters bad and beat them!


And they all got thrown in one classroom together. They weren’t mainstreamed. It’s still not a lot of children that have special needs.


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## Everything Zen (Sep 29, 2019)

LivingInPeace said:


> What I want to know is why are there so many children with special needs? Is it the chemicals in the food?



I think it’s also the lack of exercise that’s causing these kids to act out. They’re over stimulated with sugar and all the video games and TV but they don’t get physically worn out enough to balance it out.


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## momi (Sep 30, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> Also not true about staff being trained to properly restrain kids.
> At my kids school a black and white kid both had tantrums and tore the class room up. Principal tried to restrain the black kid and was kicked. Black kid was expelled. New rule implemented that staff can't touch the kids. White kid tears class room up the next year and no one touched him. Everyone exited the room and he pulled down a book shelf.  He got to stay because he had an IEP.



What in the world.  smh    I'm sorry but teachers should not have to put up with this nonsense. 

There needs to be a total revamping of the educational system.


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## Evolving78 (Sep 30, 2019)

Everything Zen said:


> I think it’s also the lack of exercise that’s causing these kids to act out. They’re over stimulated with sugar and all the video games and TV but they don’t get physically worn out enough to balance it out.


I don’t think that has anything to do with special needs, but I do believe that has a lot to do with attitude and behavior in general. These kids are in more structured activities than ever before too. But too many parents are working now, so going outside during the week isn’t much of an option. Aftercare, before care, daycare, gotta stay in until mom or dad gets home. Too much helicopter parenting and it doesn’t seem safe to just let your kids go outside anymore.


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## SoopremeBeing (Oct 3, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> I didn't know the officer is black.
> 
> He didn't have to arrest her.
> 
> ...



I threw a tantrum was I was in Kindergarden. They called my mom, and I went home for the rest of the day *shrug*


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