# Haiti gang wants $17M ransom for kidnapped American and Canadian missionaries, report says



## Leeda.the.Paladin (Oct 19, 2021)

> The kidnapped missionaries are affiliated with the Ohio-based Christian Aid Ministries, which confirmed the kidnapping on Sunday in a statement, saying the abducted group was made up of five men, seven women and five children.
> Quitel told the WSJ that the five children abducted included an 8-month-old baby and minors ages 3, 6, 14 and 15.











						Haiti gang wants $17M ransom for kidnapped American and Canadian missionaries | CNN
					

The gang that kidnapped a group of 17 American and Canadian missionaries in Haiti has asked for $1 million each for their release, a top Haitian official told CNN Tuesday.




					www.cnn.com


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## Kanky (Oct 19, 2021)

Kind of crazy to take your kids over there to do missionary work. Everyone knows that it is a dangerous place.


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## Keen (Oct 19, 2021)

Kanky said:


> Kind of crazy to take your kids over there to do missionary work. Everyone knows that it is a dangerous place.


I think these people thoght they were safe because crime is rarely committed against foreigners (especially American citizens).

I hope the US don't pay and just go in there gun blazing.  Yes, US troops on the ground. If we want the US to stay out of our business, we need to handle our own business.


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## january noir (Oct 19, 2021)

Oh boy.  Just what we need.  Sigh.
I don't think I would have taken my children, but I'm sure they thought they were doing good to help people.


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## awhyley (Oct 19, 2021)

Keen said:


> I think these people thoght they were safe because crime is rarely committed against foreigners (especially American citizens).
> 
> *I hope the US don't pay and just go in there gun blazing. * Yes, US troops on the ground. If we want the US to stay out of our business, we need to handle our own business.



I hope not.  This is the worst scenario right now with all the political instability, not to mention Covid outbreaks.  They (kidnappers) know they're not getting $17m, hopefully, they'll settle for a couple of thousand.  (Which hopefully won't incite other kidnappers to follow suit).


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## Black Ambrosia (Oct 19, 2021)

I'm really perplexed by all those children being on the trip. Maybe I could see taking the teenagers if I was led to believe it was relatively safe but why take an 8 month old in the middle of a pandemic? Same for the 3 and 6 year olds but an infant is completely dependent on you for everything. I wouldn't take all those kids with me to a resort because I wouldn't enjoy the vacation so there's no way I'd take them on a missionary excursion.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Oct 19, 2021)

Y’all must not know many missionaries.

Haiti has been a popular spot for the missions lately. I know quite a few who’ve taken their kids. They consider the presence of their families just as important as their own presence. One daddy told me that the call to be a missionary was for his whole family not just for him.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, just saying it’s not unusual and kind of expected to bring children with you.


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## Keen (Oct 19, 2021)

awhyley said:


> I hope not.  This is the worst scenario right now with all the political instability, not to mention Covid outbreaks.  They (kidnappers) know they're not getting $17m, hopefully, they'll settle for a couple of thousand.  (Which hopefully won't incite other kidnappers to follow suit).


From what I’ve heard most payment is a settlement.  These kidnapping are worst then the political instability. Regular folks who ignore politics can’t leave their house.


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## Black Ambrosia (Oct 19, 2021)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> Y’all must not know many missionaries.
> 
> Haiti has been a popular spot for the missions lately. I know quite a few who’ve taken their kids. They consider the presence of their families just as important as their own presence. One daddy told me that the call to be a missionary was for his whole family not just for him.
> 
> Not saying it’s right or wrong, just saying it’s not unusual and kind of expected to bring children with you.


I don't know any missionaries but a friend and her Haitian husband went years ago with their church and she was adamant about not feeling safe as a woman without her husband. She also told me that as a lighter complexioned woman (still brown) I might be targeted for unwanted sexual advances. Maybe her experience was different since she was there with someone from the island? Or maybe it was different because of the timing. That was easily 10 year ago. It might've been safer then but I don't recall her wanting to take her kids though they definitely talked about going back and doing more work there.


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## Kanky (Oct 19, 2021)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> Y’all must not know many missionaries.
> 
> Haiti has been a popular spot for the missions lately. I know quite a few who’ve taken their kids. They consider the presence of their families just as important as their own presence. One daddy told me that the call to be a missionary was for his whole family not just for him.
> 
> Not saying it’s right or wrong, just saying it’s not unusual and kind of expected to bring children with you.


I’ve known a few who took kids, but they weren’t in a pandemic traveling to places where kidnapping is normal thing. I know Haitian-Americans who won’t go to Haiti, and these folks went over there with babies.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Oct 19, 2021)

Kanky said:


> I’ve known a few who took kids, but they weren’t in a pandemic traveling to places where kidnapping is normal thing. I know Haitian-Americans who won’t go to Haiti, and these folks went over there with babies.


Again, not saying it makes sense. Just saying I wasn’t at all surprised that some of hostages were kids.


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## Black Ambrosia (Oct 19, 2021)

Kanky said:


> I’ve known a few who took kids, but they weren’t in a pandemic traveling to places where kidnapping is normal thing. I know Haitian-Americans who won’t go to Haiti, and these folks went over there with babies.


If I were a parent and something happened to my child in this setting, I'd never forgive myself. Doing the Lord's work shouldn't cause you to lose good judgement.


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## vevster (Oct 19, 2021)

My cousin was kidnapped years ago was never the same after.


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## Keen (Oct 19, 2021)

vevster said:


> My cousin was kidnapped years ago was never the same after.


I remember you posted about that. I can’t begin to imagine the trauma she still experiencing


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## KenyafromCT (Oct 20, 2021)

They always want to go somewhere and do their so called work. I don’t trust them and their benevolent hearts.


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## yamilee21 (Oct 20, 2021)

I overheard a Haitian guy talking to someone about this today… he said, ‘Who are these fools going to negotiate with? They’re negotiating with FBI, CIA, and they don’t even speak real English! They think it’s going to be like the movies they’ve seen, forgetting that they are in the bad guy role, and the CIA always wins.’ I don’t know about all that, but his take did give me a chuckle.

In the Duvalier era, there was no kidnapping for ransom*** - the paramilitary Tonton Macoutes disappeared you… if you were lucky, you were forced onto a plane into exile with just the clothes on your back. Otherwise, sometimes your body turned up, and sometimes it didn’t. We’re still waiting to find out what happened to some of my relatives, after 58 years.

The kidnapping phenomenon took hold starting in the late 1990s; from then up until about 2015, it was especially about destroying small businesses and destroying the middle and aspiring-middle class. I sincerely feel that those monopolistic families were behind it, in their sick, avaricious effort to control every single thing in the country, and destroy whatever they cannot control. The same families were targeted over and over… among my relatives, I think we’ve had about 10 (including me). Sometimes kidnappers or would-be-kidnappers called relatives in the diaspora directly; my ex-stepfather-in-law got into a dispute with some people, and somehow they found my cell phone number and called me making threats. (I despise him anyway, plus he might have committed some crimes himself, so I told them they would have to call someone else who would actually care. #sorrynotsorry)

In recent years, it has become a free-for-all… so many of the people being kidnapped are already very poor, with no way to come up with the absurd ransoms being demanded. It would be comical, if the kidnappers weren’t so well-armed and so willing to kill. When they got the European priests and nuns a few months ago, they must have gotten extremely emboldened.

Kidnappers in Haiti have been targeting U.S. citizens for years; the difference is that the ones they went after before were of Haitian ancestry. The American Embassy, FBI and CIA never gave a hoot when it was one of us. So it’s really aggravating to hear it reported that “Americans” are rarely targeted - *white* U.S. citizens haven’t previously been targeted much, and those are the only ones the white media cares about.

I have only contempt for so-called missionaries in Haiti, spreading their racist ideology and backwards thinking. Almost all Haitians are at least nominally Christian already; why are they there? So honestly, I don’t really care that these missionaries were kidnapped, because they had no business being there in the first place. Mennonite missionaries in Haiti are especially racist and ignorant; they act offended that there are Haitians who are educated/running businesses/not waiting around for charity/etc. … like their dumb 8th grade education rumps are superior just because they lack melanin. And these fake orphanages need to be shut down; the overwhelming majority of children in Haitian orphanages have living parents and families, but these so-called missionaries convince them to place the kids there “to be educated” or even trick them into thinking that it will be a pathway for the whole family to immigrate to the U.S.; meanwhile, they have racist evangelical white families adopting these kids into their all-white communities.



*** There was one spectacular kidnapping during the Duvalier era; some activists managed to kidnap the U.S. ambassador. It was for a good cause though - to put pressure on the government to release some political prisoners, and grant them all safe passage to Cuba.


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## Theresamonet (Oct 20, 2021)

I kinda hate missionaries, so I feel pretty meh about this kidnapping… 

I hope the US doesn’t give the kidnappers anything besides bullets in their asses, though.


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## demlew (Oct 20, 2021)

I read a couple of articles that said only the director's family and one other person weren't kidnapped. That's suspicious to me.


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## vevster (Oct 20, 2021)

demlew said:


> I read a couple of articles that said only the director's family and one other person weren't kidnapped. That's suspicious to me.


Hmmmm well they can’t kidnap everyone.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 20, 2021)

I could see if they were demanding some kind of help for the Haitian people or good cause for black people.

Nah, they want money. 

And yes, most of the people they used to kidnap were black missionaries before. Oftentimes people who were born in Haiti and living stateside with the desire to want to help their fellow Haitians left behind, or 2nd generation American born folk with Haitian parents.....Now they got dewhites and everybody looking.

Its all a mess. The kidnappers are trash, the missionaries should have stayed home. 

People go back and forth feeling absolute anger for whats going on with the people of Haiti and then that anger or sorrow is greatly tempered by this kind of stuff. But at least its not like the Mexican Cartel kidnappings. I can't even call those kidnappings.


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## nysister (Oct 20, 2021)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> Y’all must not know many missionaries.
> 
> Haiti has been a popular spot for the missions lately. I know quite a few who’ve taken their kids. They consider the presence of their families just as important as their own presence. One daddy told me that the call to be a missionary was for his whole family not just for him.
> 
> Not saying it’s right or wrong, just saying it’s not unusual and kind of expected to bring children with you.


And it really smacks of victim blaming.

Maybe it wasn't a great idea, but the kind of people who would hold babies hostage, deserve what they get, it doesn't matter if they're Black.


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## larry3344 (Oct 21, 2021)

Black Majority countries need to stray away from religious fanaticism. All this missionary work needs to end. People need work and feed their families not waste their time praying 24/7.


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## Keen (Oct 21, 2021)

larry3344 said:


> Black. Majority countries need to stray away from religion fanaticism. All this missionary work needs to end. People need work and feed their families not waste their time praying 24/7.


Missionary work is an industry within itself in Haiti.


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## vevster (Oct 21, 2021)

Keen said:


> Missionary work is an industry within itself in Haiti.


They have been known to traffic kids too.


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## larry3344 (Oct 21, 2021)

Keen said:


> Missionary work is an industry within itself in Haiti.


Same problem all over Africa including the countries of where my parents are from Togo and Congo.
Far too many African descendants  run to religion as a form of escapism, and many have made a business off the church it is disgusting and preying on people’s desperation.
If black majority countries had industry and work opportunities similar to the west religious attendance would drop spectacularly many people don’t believe, they just go for gossip, social pressure, or to show off. I have recently turned agnostic largely because of this nonsense.

ETA- I am not pushing my views on anyone about my beliefs I am just sharing my personal spiritual journey. We should all be free to practice our faith with respect. I have just come to terms that I am areligious


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## Black Ambrosia (Oct 21, 2021)

I don't have experience with missionary work but my assumption is that along with prayer they're bringing resources. I can't fault people for taking advantage of the resources offered when options are limited.


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## Black Ambrosia (Oct 21, 2021)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> People go back and forth feeling absolute anger for whats going on with the people of Haiti and then that anger or sorrow is greatly tempered by this kind of stuff. But at least its not like the Mexican Cartel kidnappings. I can't even call those kidnappings.


Forgive my ignorance but why don't you call those kidnappings?


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## Keen (Oct 21, 2021)

vevster said:


> They have been known to traffic kids too.


They have made adoption in Haiti so difficult and expensive


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## Keen (Oct 21, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> I don't have experience with missionary work but my assumption is that along with prayer they're bringing resources. I can't fault people for taking advantage of the resources offered when options are limited.


Mission work in Haiti is deemed a “necessary evil”


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## vevster (Oct 22, 2021)

Any news?


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Oct 22, 2021)

Looks like the missionaries are Amish?









						Gang leader threatens to kill captive missionaries in Haiti if he doesn't get what he wants | CNN
					

The leader of the gang that kidnapped 17 US and Canadian missionaries in Haiti has threatened to kill them if he doesn't get what he wants, according to a video released Thursday.




					www.cnn.com
				




Gang leader says he’ll kill them.


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## yamilee21 (Oct 22, 2021)

They are Mennonites; a related sect that uses technology. Actual Amish wouldn’t travel by plane. But they’re still mostly uneducated racists. And there are other “American citizens” still being held captive, but they are of Haitian ancestry, so no one cares.

I doubt the missionaries will be killed. I would really like to know what the actual long-term plan was for whoever started arming these guys - is this part of the script to provoke a greater international reaction, or have the overlords completely lost control of the gangs?


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## Keen (Oct 22, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> I would really like to know what the actual long-term plan was for whoever started arming these guys - is this part of the script to provoke a greater international reaction, or have the overlords completely lost control of the gangs?


This did not happen overnight.  From my understanding, politicians and upper class citizens who control the economy had been arming them for decades to do their dirty work.  The gangs don’t need the politicians to supply them with guns and money anymore.  

My theory: Haiti is not getting much cash foreign aid anymore. There’s no money to steal. People who used to fund theses gangs don’t have the same capacity to control the gangs.  Now they are operating solo with no law enforcement with the manpower to stop them.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 22, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> Forgive my ignorance but why don't you call those kidnappings?


They are kidnappings by definition but majority end in murder. Most people kidnap for ransom but they are whole organizations just taking people for the purpose of slavery then disposing them. They make no demands for ransom at all.


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## yamilee21 (Oct 22, 2021)

Keen said:


> This did not happen overnight.  From my understanding, politicians and upper class citizens who control the economy had been arming them for decades to do their dirty work.  The gangs don’t need the politicians to supply them with guns and money anymore.
> 
> My theory: Haiti is not getting much cash foreign aid anymore. There’s no money to steal. People who used to fund theses gangs don’t have the same capacity to control the gangs.  Now they are operating solo with no law enforcement with the manpower to stop them.


But in terms of targeting white foreigners, who were previously “off-limits” before… I really wonder whether the gang, having been “successful” in kidnapping a few European priests and nuns in the previous group kidnapping in May, deliberately went after these white missionaries in the hopes of getting even more money, all on their own; or whether this idea came from some oligarch overlord, whose ultimate goal is provoking a new international occupying force, which would likely mean contract$ and other benefit$ for them. Clearly these people at the top really didn’t think things through, because at some point, with enough guns and money, the gangs are going to turn on them too. As high as the walls are around the oligarchs’ homes, none of them have managed to cover their properties with an impenetrable dome.


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## Crackers Phinn (Oct 24, 2021)

What a complete Pooh show.


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## Kanky (Oct 28, 2021)

Group defends work in Haiti of 17 abducted missionaries
					

A religious organization whose 17 missionaries were kidnapped in Haiti almost a week ago is defending its work in dangerous places




					abcnews.go.com
				




They still haven’t rescued these people. Apparently gangs have also blocked fuel distribution stations.


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## Kanky (Oct 28, 2021)

This is one of the craziest things that I have ever read. Political candidates collaborating with gang members, extortion taxes on goat herding and beauty shops, snatching up folks off the street and people just paying the ransom.









						“These Gangs Are Better Armed Than the Police”
					

How kidnapping became normal in Haiti.




					slate.com


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## yamilee21 (Oct 28, 2021)

Kanky said:


> This is one of the craziest things that I have ever read. Political candidates collaborating with gang members, extortion taxes on goat herding and beauty shops, snatching up folks off the street and people just paying the ransom.


Two things would have to happen for the kidnapping to end, without a functioning government/police force: (1) the people in the gang controlled areas would have to stop collaborating with the gangs and stand up to them… which would get many of them killed, so that won’t happen - no matter how miserable people’s lives are, they still want to live; and (2) people would have to be willing to allow their kidnapped loved ones to die… which not only won’t happen, but would lead to entire families of the original victims also being kidnapped and killed.

Maybe 10, 15 years ago, it could have been stopped by people working together to stand against it, but at this point, any knucklehead with a gun can become a kidnapper. Some people with weapons have tried to fight back, but they are often outnumbered and killed anyway, since the kidnappers work in teams, and have much better guns.

Just as an aside though… “extortion taxes” aren’t unusual in the U.S. either. A relative who always had a couple of small businesses in Haiti immigrated to NYC, and set up a similar small business in the Bronx in the late 1960s. He lasted about 2 years before giving up, since he would not pay the local police for protection; he was shocked that this kind of thing happened here. During the crack epidemic, in my neighborhood it was easy to tell which businesses were “being protected” by the drug dealers - the other businesses would close down within less than 6 months.


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## Kanky (Oct 28, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> Two things would have to happen for the kidnapping to end, without a functioning government/police force: (1) the people in the gang controlled areas would have to stop collaborating with the gangs and stand up to them… which would get many of them killed, so that won’t happen - no matter how miserable people’s lives are, they still want to live; and (2) people would have to be willing to allow their kidnapped loved ones to die… which not only won’t happen, but would lead to entire families of the original victims also being kidnapped and killed.
> 
> Maybe 10, 15 years ago, it could have been stopped by people working together to stand against it, but at this point, any knucklehead with a gun can become a kidnapper. Some people with weapons have tried to fight back, but they are often outnumbered and killed anyway, since the kidnappers work in teams, and have much better guns.
> 
> Just as an aside though… “extortion taxes” aren’t unusual in the U.S. either. A relative who always had a couple of small businesses in Haiti immigrated to NYC, and set up a similar small business in the Bronx in the late 1960s. He lasted about 2 years before giving up, since he would not pay the local police for protection; he was shocked that this kind of thing happened here. During the crack epidemic, in my neighborhood it was easy to tell which businesses were “being protected” by the drug dealers - the other businesses would close down within less than 6 months.


The article says that the gang has passed around a price list with how much each type of business must pay and the charge per goat.  I’m sorry, but this is not the same thing.

ETA: It doesn’t seem like this problem is going to be solved. I think that after the US gets these missionaries back they need to let it be known that you are on your own if you go there and get kidnapped or whatever. I keep reading articles about people who want to put troops on ground. It would be a waste of time and money and end up like Afghanistan. The people who live there have to decide to fix the problem on their own. If they can’t or won’t fix it then it can’t be fixed.


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## Keen (Oct 28, 2021)

Kanky said:


> The article says that the gang has passed around a price list with how much each type of business must pay and the charge per goat.


This price list doesn’t sound real.  Getting paid in goat is not common in Haiti, especially where gangs operate.


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## yamilee21 (Oct 28, 2021)

Kanky said:


> The article says that the gang has passed around a price list with how much each type of business must pay and the charge per goat.  I’m sorry, but this is not the same thing.


I am not speaking in defense of these monstrous gang members, who have victimized family members, friends and me, however, if goats (livestock) are one’s business, and they are imposing “taxes” on businesses, then it makes sense to tax per goat. Since it does sound rather ridiculous though, I looked this topic up, in various languages so I would get results from different locations. Turns out paying taxes per livestock head is a real thing in some developed countries, including some states within the U.S.,… which makes the situation in Haiti even crazier, because the government has barely been able to collect any taxes in recent years, but these criminals are able to figure out a formula to “tax” livestock.

But who knows what the truth is; if the reporters are using translators, they may be getting told sarcasm or exaggerations that they misunderstand… or even if they understand, they may be edited for a “better story,” lacking in nuance.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Nov 18, 2021)

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/haiti/article255847071.html
		


Its been a month.


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## NaturalEnigma (Nov 18, 2021)

Wow, they still didn’t capture these kidnappers and set the captive free. This is crazy. Are they still even alive?


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## Black Ambrosia (Nov 18, 2021)

Are any of these people black? No one deserves this but their lack of melanin (my assumption) and the poor decision making that led them to take young kids is tempering my sympathy.


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## Theresamonet (Nov 18, 2021)

Kanky said:


> This is one of the craziest things that I have ever read. Political candidates collaborating with gang members, extortion taxes on goat herding and beauty shops, snatching up folks off the street and people just paying the ransom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Terrible… Haiti needs a Don Corleone to take out their Don Fanucci.


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## yamilee21 (Nov 18, 2021)

There are people saying that it is a hoax; it’s such a large group to be held so long, which is unusual for Haitian kidnappers. But more importantly, people are wondering why haven’t we learned their names, why aren’t their family members on media pleading for their release, why isn’t social media bombarded with their pictures? 

Honestly, I have thought the same. For the group that was kidnapped on the way to a priest’s installation mass, the names were known and publicized, etc. Same kidnappers, so this looks more suspicious.


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## vevster (Nov 22, 2021)

Two missionaries released in Haiti after group kidnapping
					

Two of the missionaries kidnapped in Haiti over a month ago have been released, according to a statement by the US-based Christian Aid Ministries. CNN has not been able to independently confirm their release.




					www.google.com


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