# Going Modest- Anyone thinking Modest?



## blazingthru (Dec 15, 2014)

I have been and Adventist for years now and never had the modesty message. I found it quite by accident. I had always been curious about a deeper study in the way we are to wear our hair and make up and jewelry but never really got into it. Reason is because once I accepted the message of not adorning myself that was it. I was convicted from the start. I haven't worn jewelry for almost 7 years. No make up either, though for events I wear lashes and eyeliner only because my eyes seem to disappear in pictures. 

As for my hair I am natural and never wanted to change, I never liked bright colors or blond for my hair, I can't in my own mind find a reason for being blond other then I want others to admire me and to admire myself.  For me that was the one thing I want to avoid. drawing attention to myself, especially because I lived in the city and I use to take public transportation and I witness violence and robbery on one to many occasions. 

Many other religions practice modesty (perhaps in dress and not mouth) but nonetheless it is practiced. Its been on my heart. I imagine it would take deeper study as to how to go about it and the concrete reasons for it. I spoke to my daughters and they said no.  Which I am not judging anyone. but it is for those who seek to draw closer to God, words for thought and consideration.  Many in my faith do not practice modesty perhaps this is a reason why it bothered me so much.  the shoes that are worn in service are very sexual in nature, very true. I think they are cute but then I think sexy too and I can't see where that can be right in the house of God. the skirts and dress or way to short. I just feel so uncomfortable and I never really cared before. So it was a shock and yet not a shock to see there is a message, there is a teaching in the bible of how woman are to dress. 

As more clothes come off unsaved, more clothes should come on the Christian woman.  

I found some interesting websites for modest clothing. Of course more research is needed but I welcome others thoughts on this for or against, though against isn't going to change my mind. it will help me to reaffirm why I want to take this step in my life.  I will be facing some serious ridicule from my family and want to start preparing and preparing those who want to go this direction with me. 

it clearly is step out on faith. I haven't posted my bases for this decision because I have not mapped it out yet. I just know that once again I was convicted from the very start that I needed to change my style of dress and stop wearing pants. 

www.koshercasual.com
Some skirt idea and tights to wear underneath


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## dicapr (Dec 15, 2014)

Good luck and continue to let the Lord lead you. I've always admired women who practice "modesty" and continue to look fashionable, attractive and modern while remaining covered. I am not lead to that lifestyle but I wish you success in that endeavor.


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## YaniraNaturally (Dec 16, 2014)

Welcome! A modest lifestyle is not always easy (in terms of finding clothing) but it's the only way for me.


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## YaniraNaturally (Dec 17, 2014)

I'm back now that I have time! I just had to post BC I was so excited to see a topic about modesty. My backstory: I switched churches in May, repented in June, vacationed for all of July , got baptized in August and was saved in September. As a young adult one of my goals with dressing modestly is not to look dowdy. 

My Personal Standards:
-Nothing that needs to sit "just so" in order to be modest
-No tops that are too low cut
-Nothing sleeveless
-Skirts to the knee
-The only makeup I wear is tinted lip balm
-No colored nail polish. My struggle! 

Online shopping and a tape measure have been a lifesaver for me. My ideal skirt length is between 21.5 and 23 inches. Unless it's a midi/maxi. It sounds restricting but I zip through online shopping now. 

I usually get my fashion inspiration from IG or Pente bloggers. 

The clothing change hasn't been hard for me because I've always been modest (but I rarely wore skirts/dresses), my Mom supports me 100% and I've made an effort to befriend people at my new church. The women at my church are very modest. I've had a handful of people try to rudely discourage me but I just ignore them. 

This is the longest post I've ever written and this just scratches the surface. I'll shut up now


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## Sheriberi (Dec 17, 2014)

I've always chosen my clothing with care. I wear dresses, skirts and pants, but nothing tight and nothing short. I do wear shorts in the summer, but they are not tight and are Bermuda length.


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## FemmeFatale (Dec 17, 2014)

Interesting topic. To be very honest I find that some super modest clothing fall into the homely category. I think a look like this is fine.

What is the issue with makeup and nail polish?


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## YaniraNaturally (Dec 17, 2014)

^I totally agree about the homely part! My Mom is almost quicker than me about vetoing anything frumpy. My attachment is something I'd wear on a casual day. But I'd wear a thicker skirt so that it wouldn't cling. That dress would make me feel very self-conscious! 

Re: Makeup. There are women at my church who wear a little powder and there are others who are barefaced. The goal is not to be flashy. You wouldn't see someone there with a smokey eye and red lipstick etc. 

Makeup is a total distraction for me! It had me sitting in service focusing on not crying because I didn't want to look like a raccoon  Plus once I stopped wearing MU I realized it was the sole cause of my breakouts!


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## Poohbear (Dec 17, 2014)

This is the verse in the bible that reminds me of modesty:

1 Timothy 2:9, "in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing..."


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## Divine. (Dec 17, 2014)

Yeah, I don't think I'm called to this  I like to look nice, and those clothes...During the week I got the whole modesty thing down (loose clothes, no makeup, etc.) but that's honestly out of laziness and not caring. Idk if I could do that though the weekend though. That's really the only time I'm "made up" or look presentable.


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## dicapr (Dec 17, 2014)

I don't know where the modest line is. I do have standards on what I feel is appropriate to wear but I don't think showing arms and legs or wearing pants makes me immodest. I don't do tight unless I'm wearing leggings and then my shirt or sweater is almost mid thigh.  I also wear light makeup when I dress up but I never do anything but a natural look.  

 I've seen some women practice modesty but they don't particularly look like they are doing anything but dressing nicely. Other women tend to embrace frumpy as an equivalent to modesty.


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## CoilyFields (Dec 17, 2014)

I am sensing that "going modest" may be a tradition that is embraced by Seventh day Adventists? Like, there is a formula for it? 

I dress modestly, as should all Christians. Its important that we not ignore the Holy Spirit telling us that we may be doing too much for the location/occassion etc. 

Modesty, in my understanding of it, is not an absence of adornment but a regulation of presentation. 

When I teach the teens we talk a lot about it. Especially the girls, becuase they feel picked on as regards their clothing (not a lot is restricted for boys besides sagging pants). We mostly talk about God wanting us to spend more time adorning our character rather than solely focusing on our bodies. We also talk about them being in tune to the Holy Spirit as regarding their clothing choices. 

Though our definitions may be different I would never discourage another sister from following her conscience or what the Holy Spirit has lead her to do...so happy shopping sis!


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## felic1 (Dec 17, 2014)

FemmeFatale  I think the dress is too clingy. Our clothes should not attract looks to our figure. I like makeup. I like lipstick. Many are offended by lipstick. I wear shorts when it is hot. I do not own " daisy dukes". I wear tank tops but nothing sleeveless in church. I go to waterparks with my son and go swimming in a " modest bathing suit". I do not own halters, tube tops or strapless garments.

Last summer at church, choir members showed up for rehersal in halters, tube tops and strapless garments. I was really in shock. I spoke about it to someone and was told, " Oh felic1, things have changed". I do not belong to that club. How are you singing to the glory of God with all your beautiful skin exposed? I have been troubled ever since. I am looking at some patterns to sew up a few pieces. I have ideas to make them acceptable for church. For instance, one summer dress pattern is going to get a matching underskirt (petticoat). Others?


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## JaneBond007 (Dec 17, 2014)

I see no one discouraging modesty, it's required biblically.  How that is to look is largely up to culture and personal taste.  Just so that no one looks down upon those with makeup, exposed legs and arms, even a certain amount of cleavage, pants, the tightness of dresses and slacks or height of shoe heels...to avoid becoming judgmental and legalistic.  Do what you're led to for yourself.  I think that's key.


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## Holla (Dec 17, 2014)

felic1 said:


> Last summer at church, choir members showed up for rehersal in halters, tube tops and strapless garments. I was really in shock. I spoke about it to someone and was told, " Oh felic1, things have changed". I do not belong to that club. *How are you singing to the glory of God with all your beautiful skin exposed?* I have been troubled ever since. I am looking at some patterns to sew up a few pieces. I have ideas to make them acceptable for church. For instance, one summer dress pattern is going to get a matching underskirt (petticoat). Others?


 

felic1 ..When I read *that*, I immediately thought of 2 Samuel 6, when David danced and Michal was upset that he was dancing and doing so improperly attired in his wife's mind.  Something to think about. 




> Wearing a linen ephod, David was dancing before the Lord with all his might, while he and all Israel were bringing up the ark of the Lord with shouts and the sound of trumpets.
> 
> 16 As the ark of the Lord was entering the City of David, Michal daughter of Saul watched from a window. And when she saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord, she despised him in her heart.
> 
> ...


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## Holla (Dec 17, 2014)

FemmeFatale said:


> Interesting topic. To be very honest I find that some super modest clothing fall into the homely category. I think a look like this is fine.
> 
> What is the issue with makeup and nail polish?


 
That picture reminded me of Mary Mary's look....well one of the sisters anyway.  She took a LOT of heat for this dress. Interestingly enough, I don't recall reading one critique of her weave, nails, or makeup.....just about the dress.


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## felic1 (Dec 17, 2014)

Holla said:


> felic1 ..When I read *that*, I immediately thought of 2 Samuel 6, when David danced and Michal was upset that he was dancing and doing so improperly attired in his wife's mind.  Something to think about.



Holla  Hi Holla! I remember David dancing and his wife said he was dancing in front of the ladies. David picked up a new wife or concubine at every opportunity. While that timeframe practiced polygamy we are called to one spouse. As the former king's daughter, she may have felt that she should be his primary partner and he was spread about. When David was dying, they went to get a Shunamite sp woman to heat him up. These women were very beautiful and desirable. When the king could not rise to the occasion, his attendants said that he was dying for sure. I see that when we discuss modest apparel braided hair is mentioned. We wear our hair in braids sometimes. It is beautiful and simple. Modesty does not draw a lot of attention to ourselves and does not portray an image of very sexy. What do other ladies believe is a chaste expression of modesty?


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## felic1 (Dec 17, 2014)

Holla said:


> felic1 ..When I read *that*, I immediately thought of 2 Samuel 6, when David danced and Michal was upset that he was dancing and doing so improperly attired in his wife's mind.  Something to think about.



Holla  Hi Holla! I remember David dancing and his wife said he was dancing in front of the ladies. David picked up a new wife or concubine at every opportunity. While that timeframe practiced polygamy we are called to one spouse. As the former king's daughter, she may have felt that she should be his primary partner and he was spread about. When David was dying, they went to get a Shunamite sp woman to heat him up. These women were very beautiful and desirable. When the king could not rise to the occasion, his attendants said that he was dying for sure. I see that when we discuss modest apparel braided hair is mentioned. We wear our hair in braids sometimes. It is beautiful and simple. Modesty does not draw a lot of attention to ourselves and does not portray an image of very sexy. What do other ladies believe is a chaste expression of modesty?


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## felic1 (Dec 17, 2014)

Holla said:


> felic1 ..When I read *that*, I immediately thought of 2 Samuel 6, when David danced and Michal was upset that he was dancing and doing so improperly attired in his wife's mind.  Something to think about.



Holla  Hi Holla! I remember David dancing and his wife said he was dancing in front of the ladies. David picked up a new wife or concubine at every opportunity. While that timeframe practiced polygamy we are called to one spouse. As the former king's daughter, she may have felt that she should be his primary partner and he was spread about. When David was dying, they went to get a Shunamite (sp) woman to heat him up. These women were very beautiful and desirable. When the king could not rise to the occasion, his attendants said that he was dying for sure. I see that when we discuss modest apparel braided hair is mentioned. We wear our hair in braids sometimes. It is beautiful and simple. Modesty does not draw a lot of attention to ourselves and does not portray an image of very sexy. What do other ladies believe is a chaste expression of modesty?


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## Holla (Dec 17, 2014)

felic1 said:


> @Holla Hi Holla! I remember David dancing and his wife said he was dancing in front of the ladies. David picked up a new wife or concubine at every opportunity. While that timeframe practiced polygamy we are called to one spouse. As the former king's daughter, she may have felt that she should be his primary partner and he was spread about. When David was dying, they went to get a Shunamite (sp) woman to heat him up. These women were very beautiful and desirable. When the king could not rise to the occasion, his attendants said that he was dying for sure. I see that when we discuss modest apparel braided hair is mentioned. We wear our hair in braids sometimes. It is beautiful and simple. Modesty does not draw a lot of attention to ourselves and does not portray an image of very sexy. What do other ladies believe is a chaste expression of modesty?


 

Polygamy, etc. has nothing to do with dancing before the Lord in certain attire. But if that is what you drew from that passage ......ok.


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## Haddasah (Dec 17, 2014)

Personally I wear skirts and dresses except when I'm exercising. I don't wear anything above my knees, but most are ankle length dresses/skirts. My clothing are not clingy or loose but fitted. One can still be fashionable and dress modestly, nothing wrong with dressing up. I do "doctor up" some of the "trendy" items however needed.

I know a lot of women who dress modestly, a lot. Wearing layers upon layers of clothing in the heat with hats (because your head is to be covered in their belief of modesty) and keeping little ice pouches under their arms to stay cool. Where I live its hot 90% of the time, no seasons here really. It draws attention...if the point is to not draw attention by dress, they have failed (IMO) because they draw a lot of attention dressing like that in this weather 

I used to be like that, and Im not anymore. 
I was concerned with how people saw me...I wanted to portray an image of holiness, so I dressed like that (wrong motives). Did nothing for my heart,  still drew attention, and was uncomfortable. It's like I took modesty to mean to look as painfully hideous as possible. 
Also I  started to disdain my femininity, like it was a curse that must be hidden at all cost. And it will be my life punishment to minimize and abhor my natural curves. Being full figured, it was a drag attempting to hide every curve, I wanted to achieve a ruler look....impossible for me, it was frustrating.

Now

I dress tastefully for the weather and occasion, fitted (not loose or tight) clothing, with minimum skin showing, I wear colors that complement my complexion and undertone, I do not wear jewelry. Yes I wear makeup,  sometimes do my nails (pinks,nudes,plums), and do my hair. 

God loves beauty( look at nature), and I see nothing wrong with being creative in the ways that I adorn my body and celebrating my femininity.


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## Haddasah (Dec 17, 2014)

FemmeFatale said:


> Interesting topic. To be very honest I find that some super modest clothing fall into the homely category. I think a look like this is fine.
> 
> What is the issue with makeup and nail polish?



Personally, I would wear this dress a little looser, minus the shoes (I can't wear high heels over 3 inches-wear a black flatter shoe), and keep the jacket (black insides compliment the black shoes plus to cover up), I don't find her full face makeup flashy but enhancing/natural. Nice style.


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## Shimmie (Dec 17, 2014)

YaniraNaturally said:


> I'm back now that I have time! I just had to post BC I was so excited to see a topic about modesty. My backstory: I switched churches in May, repented in June, vacationed for all of July , got baptized in August and was saved in September. As a young adult one of my goals with dressing modestly is not to look dowdy.
> 
> My Personal Standards:
> -Nothing that needs to sit "just so" in order to be modest
> ...


 
YaniraNaturally

:welcome3:

And I am very blessed by your post.


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## Shimmie (Dec 17, 2014)

Holla said:


> That picture reminded me of Mary Mary's look....well one of the sisters anyway. She took a LOT of heat for this dress. Interestingly enough, I don't recall reading one critique of her weave, nails, or makeup.....just about the dress.


 
I remember that thread.   I was one of the 'trouble makers'   

This dress truly is too clingy.  It shows ever curve of her body.   Now if this is for her husband in a private setting, fine.   But all eyes of men will looking at her body.    

Her hair is gorgeous though


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## YaniraNaturally (Dec 17, 2014)

Shimmie said:


> YaniraNaturally
> 
> :welcome3:
> 
> And I am very blessed by your post.



Thank you Shimmie! I love your posts!


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## blazingthru (Dec 18, 2014)

CoilyFields said:


> I am sensing that "going modest" may be a tradition that is embraced by Seventh day Adventists? Like, there is a formula for it?
> 
> I dress modestly, as should all Christians. Its important that we not ignore the Holy Spirit telling us that we may be doing too much for the location/occassion etc.
> 
> ...



I wanted to comment quickly before I forget, (Thank you for your post) I've been a SDA member for 6 years and never ever heard the modesty message, also LDS, Catholic, Latter Day Saints and it just goes on and on practice modesty.   I did my own study on jewelry and its rarely spoken of, but when I visited (for the first time) it was the first thing I notice, no one wore it at all, I was covered in it and I felt uncomfortable. I asked a member on here LHCF whats the deal and she explained it and I did my own research and was convicted right away. 

Right now its the men who have convicted me. They spoke of their lust for woman and the one thing that are *most* attractive to them, this is young men and older men from different walks of life, Legs, they  all said its sometimes hard to not notice but its a struggle for them every single day and  one thing I never notice is that when woman bend over men can see your bra and your belly and today my sister bent over facing me and I could see all the way down to the start of her pants I was shocked. Shocked and she is very thin.  So I decided okay no shirts that are cut low in the front and low is beyond two fingers from your collarbone. I would also not wear a dress or skirt that rises above my ankle. I would wear tights or some form of pants under my skirt in the winter.

Modesty is for men as well, on youtube there is so many discussions about going modest and what each individual felt about their journey, but not really I guess it doesn't really matter, it a decision for God atleast those were their bases for doing it as is mine. But to hear young men and young woman making the decision it really a blessing and explaining why your arms and legs should be covered. I'm still researching but getting excited about it everyday. Still wearing pants though, I wish I could change right now but can't but I cover up completely, I am waiting to go shopping to get some clothes thrift shop by the way.


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## Shimmie (Dec 18, 2014)

YaniraNaturally said:


> Thank you Shimmie! I love your posts!


 
YaniraNaturally

Thank you.   You've truly shared some great advice here.   

And to all of the Ladies who've posted here, you have each shared great posts in this thread.  

Thanks blazingthru for sharing this.   It's always a great topic to discuss and learn from one another. 

God bless you.


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## Laela (Dec 18, 2014)

Thank you, Blazin'!





blazingthru said:


> *Modesty is for men as well*, on youtube there is so many discussions about going modest and what each individual felt about their journey, but not really I guess it doesn't really matter, it a decision for God atleast those were their bases for doing it as is mine. But to hear young men and young woman making the decision it really a blessing ....


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 18, 2014)

as to men and women who are having problems with lust ....we need to also make a covenant with our eyes so that we don't sin, it seems like no matter which part of the body is exposed it can be a problem for most men.   So it's not always the lack of modesty it could be the individual that needs to bring that area of their lives under  subjection to Holy Spirit.


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## blazingthru (Dec 19, 2014)

I been doing my studies,

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. ~2 Timothy 3:16

1 Timothy 2:9 - In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
* I would consider this as plain with no adornments such as jewels, costly designs. *


1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?   (Read More...)


Proverbs 31:30 - Favour [is] deceitful, and beauty [is] vain: [but] a woman [that] feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.

*Something to consider when deciding what to wear.* Beauty if Vain.

1 Peter 3:3-4 - Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;  

Proverbs 11:22 - [As] a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, [so is] a fair woman which is without discretion.

1 Peter 3:1-4 - Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;   (Read More...)

1 Timothy 2:8-10 - I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.   (Read More...)

1 Samuel 16:7 - But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Matthew 5:28 - But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

1 John 2:16 - For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 Peter 5:5-6 - Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.   (Read More...)

Matthew 5:27-28 - Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:   (Read More...)

Deuteronomy 22:5 - The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.

1 Corinthians 10:31 - Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

1 Peter 3:3 - Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

John 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Matthew 6:1 - Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 6:19 - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Proverbs 7:10 - And, behold, there met him a woman [with] the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.

Matthew 18:6-7 - But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.   (Read More...)

James 1:15 - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Leviticus 19:28 - Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I [am] the LORD.

1 Corinthians 12:23 - And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness.

1 Corinthians 7:3-5 - Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.   (Read More...)

Galatians 3:23-25 - But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.   (Read More...)

Ephesians 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Modesty is an attitude
While Paul does not speak to specific guidelines when it comes to dress, he does call women to be modest and to have self control. The New Testament church, hearing this for the first time, would not have been confused on what Paul meant by modest dress. Many in the church that Paul wrote to were copying the fashion of the Roman ladies, which was provocative and extravagant. They dressed to seduce. In contrast, the woman of the church were expected to wear modest clothing that did not draw sexual attention to themselves.

Essentially, modesty is putting on an attitude of humility. Humility in dress, in speech and in life. A humble woman does not draw unnecessary attention to herself, but rather serves her brothers and sisters in humility.

Part of our modest and humble heart is serving those around us. The Bible commands us to not be stumbling blocks to one another. You may feel comfortable wearing a mini skirt, but chances are, it is causing a brother around you to stumble.

But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?  And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. 1 Corinthians 8:9-13

http://www.sovereigngracestore.com/Product/A1170-06-59/Modesty_Heart_Check_-_Checklist.aspx

above is a help going in that direction. My agreement is not to expose my legs at all,or my arms. but that is my conviction, I am doing more research to find out why its important not to show any part of your limbs. Right now I don't' know but its a feeling that no part should be shown.

http://youtu.be/KBzScBezaEg


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## JaneBond007 (Dec 20, 2014)

Edit.........................................................................


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## Maracujá (Dec 21, 2014)

This thread is very timely. I've been studying this topic myself as I love fashion and found an interesting blog on it, here is the link: http://homeliving.blogspot.be/search?q=modesty+matters. Be sure to read the one on 'The deconstruction of women's clothing', it was an eye opener. Like someone mentioned here, I've always been selective regarding my clothing, I just need to be even more selective considering the fact that I occasionally let a cleavage pass by. A good sermon on this is Voddie Baucham's sermon on Biblical Womanhood, it can be found on youtube.


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## dicapr (Dec 21, 2014)

I have been meditating and asking for guidance on modesty. I believe the Lord has revealed some things to me about modesty, what it is, and how he wants me to practice it. For me modesty is about my attitude, being humble, and putting my need to be heard secondary to what he has put in my path. For me it isn't about how long my skirt is or how covered I need to be. It is about the state of my heart. If ones heart, mind, and attitude are not focused on service to God first and mankind second you cannot achieve modesty no matter how much you cover your skin. I've seen first hand how someone who practiced outward modesty can have all the drapings of modesty torn away by a sour and self serving attitude. What is in our heart will eventually outshine whatever we have on the outside and become our adornment. Now I'm not saying that we should not have any standards of dress as Christian women. But I do believe that until we adopt the humble and meek attitude that Christians should possess what we do on the outside does not matter.


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## felic1 (Dec 21, 2014)

dicapr  I think your post made a good statement. I have encountered many women that tend to project that they are holier than others. Their outfits are extravagant looking as well as expensive. They make a habit at turning up their nose at others. They collude to not speak to others. While we do need a meek and quiet spirit, I believe that we can look feminine without revealing too much skin to worship. I have some modern dresses. These dresses have a rounded band that encircles the neck. Because it does not cover all of the shoulder, I wear dresses like this with a shrug. Anything sleeveless that I might consider for church has to have a jacket or it won't be worn or purchased. It seems that many christian ladies wear what looks good but it too revealing to be appropriate for worship. Thanks for reading! I think this thread is a great idea!!


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## FemmeFatale (Dec 23, 2014)

Shimmie said:


> I remember that thread.   I was one of the 'trouble makers'    This dress truly is too clingy.  It shows ever curve of her body.   Now if this is for her husband in a private setting, fine.   But all eyes of men will looking at her body.  Her hair is gorgeous though



See now I wouldn't wear that to church but to dinner or the like with my honey absolutely


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## Galadriel (Dec 24, 2014)

I've been wanting to share my thoughts on this.

I believe in modesty, and I think it's a great thing. My clothing choices have changed along with my lifestyle. What I wore as a single girl in her 20's (and super skinny) isn't the same thing I'm wearing now as a married mom, who has to eat healthy and pay my dues at the gym 

I don't wear low-cut tops, short-shorts, mini skirts, tube tops, bikinis, or revealing clothing.

With that said, I do believe God made our bodies beautiful, and part of feminine appeal is the lovely shape and form of a woman. I think dresses that accentuate curves are very pretty and feminine, as well as colors and cuts that compliment our skin tones and body shapes.

I wear makeup for outings, date nights, special occasions, but in day-to-day life as a busy mom, I'm lucky to brush my hair  I don't think wearing makeup is immodest, but I do think it can be tacky when applied in an over-exaggerated manner.

I wear jewelry when I remember to, or when dressing up for a date/special occasion. Sometimes I forget to put on my wedding ring on a regular day (I do a lot of dishes and diaper changing). I like wearing jewelry, and don't see it as detracting from modesty *unless* I'm trying to wear/use jewelry as a form of boasting or flashiness.

I understand that for some women, makeup and jewelry could be seen as immodest, and I respect that. However, *for me,* I believe that in moderation, these are common and normal adornments.

I am a hair chameleon. I own 4-5 wigs of different styles and lengths, and I go between natural styles and flat ironing. I love wearing my hair in different styles. If and when I attend a traditional Catholic church that does the old Latin Mass, I will wear a veil (aka mantilla) and dress according to the dress code.

I do believe the time, place, body shape, and age play roles in modesty. Something a skinny girl with small boobs can get away with wearing, just won't work with a curvy, full-chested woman. What I wear to church isn't what I'd wear to a date, what I wear to a picnic isn't what I'd wear to a business meeting, and what I'd wear alone with my husband is something I would NOT wear in public  I believe these should be taken into consideration when judging modesty.

I also believe modesty is a frame of mind and behavior. So this means I don't indulge in dirty jokes or suggestive language with friends and associates (esp. male ones). I don't watch pornography--and this, by the way, is a HUGE problem with a lot of Christian guys. They complain about modesty and that your skirt isn't to the floor, but then will sit and watch porn. Hypocritical.


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## blazingthru (Dec 28, 2014)

I agree with all of the post to some degree, I am not judging anyone, I believe that everyone is on different levels in their walk with God and some will come to certain conviction at different stages in their lives. 

But I also believe we each should examine for ourselves what is the message that God is speaking to us regarding our bodies and why he is was so specific about what articles certain characters in the bible were to wear and why.  Evidently, it is important to him what we wear. 

I don't think the "ME" should have the stronger say because a christian woman puts 'me' in the back and puts God first and foremost.  I strongly think that everything special about our bodies, legs, arms, belly etc., should only be for our husbands review and no one else. I will say this, when I was first with my husband I was thin and beautiful because we are all beautiful and so didn't worry about my body but I did when certain woman, who had larger breast and were more curvy then me, spoke with my husband let alone want to dance with him that irked me badly, but that is normal life, but I hated it. I hated when woman would walk by with their business hanging out and he struggle not to look at them.  Its not like i didn't look at those fine men with the muscle shirts and tight pants and not tight but tight in the crotch. I'm a married woman why would I want to see someone else s husband stuff let alone looking when I am already taken. Of course then I didn't see much wrong with it, except when my husband did it. 

When I am covered men treat me differently, they are more wiling to hold the door, pick up and just simply go out of their way to help me. I am going to test this out more thoroughly and get back.  Still don't have what I need to fully jump in yet, but moving in that direction.


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## JaneBond007 (Dec 28, 2014)

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## dicapr (Dec 28, 2014)

JaneBond007 said:


> I don't think that showing too much and tempting men is the issue of confusion (most of us agree) but it's in determining that the use of adornment possibly means that one might be on a lesser level in their walk with G-d.  It shouldn't be implied.  Each one do what she feels is right but it's certainly not indicative of deeper spirituality.  Like several others have mentioned, it depends upon intent.


    I've been studying modesty due to this thread. It's interesting that it is often presented as a way to prevent lust but most verses mentioning modesty deal with the spirit and the mindset of a modest person. I'm beginning to think modest dress is more for the individual to focus on develop the qualities of a modest spirit and less about preventing temptation. People use all types of physical distractors to camouflage  what they are lacking internally. By taking the focus off what we use visually to distract from our short comings we are forced to deal with the internal struggle.


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## Laela (Dec 28, 2014)

Just wanted to share my 2-cents on this topic. The Word of God is a double-edged sword... 
God said whom He sets Free is Free indeed (John 8:36). What does that  mean to you?  
For a Child of God, if anything we do displeases Our Father, He will let us know through Conviction of the Heart
by the Holy Spirit. 
Only that person and God knows when that happens, and repentance takes care of that. (Acts 2:37-39)

Of course modesty covers everything, not just clothing. Food, drink, etc.

Wanted to share this breakdown from GotQuestions 
- because it underscores what many in this thread have said: it's a matter of the heart. 
That said, from the abundance of the Heart, the mouth always speaks.
_______________________________________________

*Question:* "What does it mean to dress modestly?"

*Answer:* In describing the mode of dress appropriate for women in church, the apostle Paul 
exhorts them to dress “modestly” with “decency and propriety” then goes on to contrast immodest
dress with the good deeds which are appropriate for those who profess to be true worshipers of God
*(1 Timothy 2:9–10*).  While the Bible only specifically addresses the need
for women to dress modestly, the same teaching would apply to men in principle. 
Both men and women should bring glory to God in their manner of dress.

Modesty in the way we dress is not just for church; it is to be the standard for all Christians at all times. 
The key to understanding what constitutes modesty in dress is to examine the _attitudes _and _intents _of the heart. 
Those whose hearts are inclined toward God will make every effort to dress modestly, decently, and appropriately. 
Those whose hearts are inclined toward self will dress in a manner designed to draw attention to themselves with
little or no regard for the consequences to themselves or others.

A godly woman endeavors to do everything with a “God-ward” perspective. She knows that God wants His people
to be concerned for His glory and the spiritual state of their brothers and sisters in Christ. 
If a woman professes to be a Christian yet she dresses in a way that will unduly draw attention to her body, 
she is a poor witness of the One who bought her soul by dying for her on the cross. She is forgetting that her body 
has been redeemed by Christ and is now the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19–20). 
She is telling the world that she determines her own worth on a purely physical basis and that her attractiveness 
depends on how much of her body she reveals to them. Further, by dressing in an immodest fashion, displaying
her body for men to lust after, she causes her brothers in Christ to sin, something condemned by God (Matthew 5:27–29). 
Proverbs 7:10 mentions a woman “dressed like a prostitute and with crafty intent”— 
here, the woman’s heart condition is displayed by her manner of dress.

The Scripture says that we are to dress modestly, but what exactly does that mean in modern society?
Does a woman have to be covered from head to toe? There are cults and religions in the world that demand this of women. 
But is that the biblical meaning of modesty? Again, we have to go back to the matter of the attitudes of the heart.
If a woman’s heart is inclined toward godliness, she will wear clothing that is neither provocative nor revealing in public, 
clothing that does not reflect negatively upon her personal testimony as a child of God. Everyone else in her circle may be dressing immodestly, but she resists the temptation to go along with the crowd. She avoids clothing designed to draw attention to her body and cause men to lust, for she is wise enough to know that type of attention only cheapens her. The idea of causing men to sin against God because of her dress is abhorrent to her because she seeks to love and honor God and wants others to do the same.

Modesty in dress reveals a modesty and godliness of the heart, attitudes that should be the desire of all women
(and men) who live to please and honor God.

_______________
I speak to myself, as I speak to you.


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## dicapr (Dec 28, 2014)

Interesting. But the bible does not support that women who are immodest cause men to commit sin. The bible is quite clear that sins come from within us. No one forces us to commit sin. The bible teaches us that a man must look at a woman TO lust to commit adultery in his heart. That means the intent to lust was a forgone conclusion. There is a difference in man or woman finding themselves in a situation where they are privy to an attractive person in a state of immodesty and  willingly going to the strip club or viewing pornography. The intent to lust must be present. That doesn't mean we shouldn't mindful of the effect our clothing choices have on the opposite sex- but the idea that our clothing choices cause someone to sin isn't biblical.


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## JaneBond007 (Dec 28, 2014)

dicapr said:


> Interesting. But the bible does not support that women who are immodest cause men to commit sin. The bible is quite clear that sins come from within us. No one forces us to commit sin. The bible teaches us that a man must look at a woman TO lust to commit adultery in his heart. That means the intent to lust was a forgone conclusion. There is a difference in man or woman finding themselves in a situation where they are privy to an attractive person in a state of immodesty and  willingly going to the strip club or viewing pornography. The intent to lust must be present. That doesn't mean we shouldn't mindful of the effect our clothing choices have on the opposite sex- but the idea that our clothing choices cause someone to sin isn't biblical.




It does in the catholic bible in the way of temptation to sin.  The admonition is on all humans with the understanding that, according to human nature and design, lust operates a certain way from male to female.  I can't tell protestants what is in their bibles, but I do know what is in the catholic bible and teaching, directly from the apostles, given directly by Jesus, backed by 4,000 years of Hebraic teachings.  I don't want to give anyone the impression that our Church does not see the dangers in immodest dress and will only post on this in the Catholic Random Thoughts.  This is to avoid confusion.


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## Belle Du Jour (Dec 28, 2014)

dicapr said:


> Interesting. But the bible does not support that women who are immodest cause men to commit sin. The bible is quite clear that sins come from within us. No one forces us to commit sin. The bible teaches us that a man must look at a woman TO lust to commit adultery in his heart. That means the intent to lust was a forgone conclusion. There is a difference in man or woman finding themselves in a situation where they are privy to an attractive person in a state of immodesty and  willingly going to the strip club or viewing pornography. The intent to lust must be present. That doesn't mean we shouldn't mindful of the effect our clothing choices have on the opposite sex- but the idea that our clothing choices cause someone to sin isn't biblical.



"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea." Mark 9:42

"...but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." Matt 18:6

"Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way." Rom 14:13

Here is a link to several other Bible verses on one person causing another to stumble: http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Causing-Others-To-Stumble

Let's not be coy that wearing something revealing and tight can invoke a certain "feeling" in a man.  Men are wired differently than we are.  Yes, ultimately the man has to stop the thought from bearing the fruit of lust, but if he never saw the image in the first place, he wouldn't have had to fight against the temptation to lust.  The Bible is clear that one person can cause another to stumble.  IMO, that includes wearing provocative clothing that induces lust.


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## dicapr (Dec 28, 2014)

JaneBond007 I think you got the wrong impression and I apologize if I offended you. Your view points are valid and fruit for thought.  That being said my response was actually to Laela.  I do believe that it is our duty to not try and be a stumbling block for our brothers in Christ. So while someone can willingly or unwillingly cause temptation they do not cause sin as I understand the bible. We should not dress in a way to cause temptation, but lust, like all other sins is something the individual is responsible to resist.


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## Belle Du Jour (Dec 28, 2014)

dicapr said:


> JaneBond007 I think you got the wrong impression and I apologize if I offended you. Your view points are valid and fruit for thought.  That being said my response was actually to Laela.  I do believe that it is our duty to not try and be a stumbling block for our brothers in Christ. So while someone can willingly or unwillingly cause temptation they do not cause sin as I understand the bible. *We should not dress in a way to cause temptation, but lust, like all other sins is something the individual is responsible to resist.*



I agree that it is up to the individual to resist, but the person dressing inappropriately is also committing a sin.


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## dicapr (Dec 28, 2014)

Belle Du Jour said:


> "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea." Mark 9:42
> 
> "...but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." Matt 18:6
> 
> ...


 
But we again are talking intent. Of course if I dress in a way to try cause a man to lust I will be judged on my intentions.  But I would not have caused him to sin.  My sin would be remain whether the man feel into lust or not. It is impossible for me dress in a manner that would never cause any man to lust after me.  So for me to be held to a standard to not causing a man to lust by my dress is unreasonable-I would be guilty of sin no matter what I did.  There is even a group of men who like to fanaticize about covered women and what is underneath their clothes.  We as Christian women should dress not to entice, but if lust does come it isn't our fault. We are judged on our intentions not others reactions.


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## Laela (Dec 28, 2014)

That is a very valid point, and thanks for making a note of it. The Holy Spirit does the convicting, no human can.



Belle Du Jour said:


> I agree that it is up to the individual to resist, but the person dressing inappropriately is also committing a sin.


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## JaneBond007 (Dec 28, 2014)

dicapr said:


> @JaneBond007 I think you got the wrong impression and I apologize if I offended you. Your view points are valid and fruit for thought.  That being said my response was actually to @Laela.  I do believe that it is our duty to not try and be a stumbling block for our brothers in Christ. So while someone can willingly or unwillingly cause temptation they do not cause sin as I understand the bible. We should not dress in a way to cause temptation, but lust, like all other sins is something the individual is responsible to resist.



I'm not offended.  It's just that this is one of those situations in which I won't cross the religious lines when  I see there is a theological difference.  I can only attest to the Catholic Church and do not wish to paint a different picture of our faith.  So, I'll just withdraw comments.


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## dicapr (Dec 28, 2014)

I'll have to continue with my research and come back with the scriptures to support this.  But what comes to mind is the fact that the Bible states that God blinks in our ignorance.  When we sin and we are unaware that our actions are sin to God we are not held accountable for that sin.  It is only after we know we are made aware that it is sin that it is charged to us.  I have no idea what causes lust in each individual man or even if I am the type of woman he would be attracted to.  All I can do is dress in a way in which I believe is not promoting myself in an overtly sexual manner.  However, if a man still finds it in his heart to lust after me there is nothing I can do to prevent or control the sin that he has let rule his life.  Because lets be truthful, men do not automatically lust because they see a body part.  

If I truly believed that I was sinning simply because a man saw a part of my body and lusted after me I would go into a deep depression. During me youth I had to deal with men who objectified my body even though I did my best to dress in a modest manner. I had a complex and felt shame for the simple fact that I had a very feminine body shape. It wasn't until I understood that the sin and shame belonged to those older men lusting after a teenage girl that I had peace. Now some of the ideas in this thread would once again place the shame and burden of men's lust on women even though she may be doing her best to present herself as a modest women. I would hate for another young woman to be ashamed of her natural curvy body or spend time and energy trying to erase her God given figure.


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## blazingthru (Dec 28, 2014)

*I thought this was a great article*

*6 Marks of Biblical Modesty: *
*How God Brings Sexy Back*

 Friday, August 16, 2013 | Written by Luke Gilkerson
Modesty is a controversial topic, especially when you throw God into the mix. For some, they simply cannot fathom, amidst all the great injustices in the world, that God actually cares if a girl wears skin-tight pants with the word “Juicy” written on them.

But in the end, it is the Word of God that should drive our discussions about modesty. What has God revealed about it?

First and foremost, a biblical definition of modesty must focus on the heart. Modesty is primarily about our motivations. In addition, modest dress is also about discernment, having an awareness of others and our environment.
*
6 Marks of Biblical Modesty*

Modern Modesty Controversies
In a recent conversation, a woman I spoke with seemed deeply offended when I suggested a woman’s manner of dress could tempt a man to lust. She wasn’t denying the claim that men lust after women, but she was emphatic that women are not to blame for a man’s lustful thoughts and actions.

She’s right, of course. A person is never guilty of another person’s sin.

This woman’s protest is, in part, motivated by a desire to fight various rape myths in our culture. When a girl dresses scantily, goes to a college party, gets drunk, makes out with a dozen guys, and then is raped, for some there is a tendency to say, “Well, she was just asking for it.” This kind of victim blaming, sadly, leads some to temper any compassion for such women when they are abused.

Let’s be clear: victims of rape are not guilty of their rape. The girl who walks across campus at 2 a.m. and gets assaulted is not to blame for the crime committed against her. Similarly, victims of another’s lust do not thereby mean a woman is guilty of lust. She should never be made to account for another person’s sin.

Where then does modesty fit into the Christian ethic?

Paul on Modesty: 1 Timothy 2:8-10
“I desire…that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.“

Christian women should concern themselves with modesty because the Bible does. This text is a primary example.

For the purposes of this article, I am writing about women because Paul is writing about women in these verses. I recognize that men should also embrace modesty.

1. Modesty is not anti-pretty
At the outset, we should take note that Paul is not anti-adornment. The force of his statement is positive: “women should adorn themselves.” These are not the words of an anti-fashion prude. The same word “adorn” is used to speak of a bride beautifying herself for her husband (Revelation 21:2). It is a term that expresses being ornamented, well-kempt, and put in order.

The question for Paul isn’t about whether a woman should ornament her body, but how.

2. Modesty is about who you worship
In the context, Paul is talking about how women should prepare themselves for gathering at church. Women are commanded to adorn themselves in a way that is fitting for worship. If they “profess godliness”—that is, they desire to show God honor and reverence—how should they dress?

Paul puts his finger on the trigger of the problem. In Ephesus, the original destination of this letter, the cultural elite were known for their gaudy and extravagant wardrobes, their elaborate hair styles, and their expensive clothing that communicated extraordinary wealth. Paul paints a picture of this for the Ephesians Christians and says, “Don’t mimic that. When you come to church, come dressed in a way that shows you desire to the attention to be on God, not yourself.”

A person’s manner of dress, or even their preoccupation with clothing itself (Matthew 6:28-30), is often indicative of a heart that loves self more than God.

3. Modesty is about behavior and attitude, not just clothing
When Paul says that women should wear “respectable apparel,” the term “apparel” is probably translated too narrowly: it is a term that encompasses not just clothing, but one’s whole demeanor, attitude, and actions.

Ultimately, what should adorn a woman is not just clothing but “good works.” As Christians, we are being remade by God for good works (Ephesians 2:10). Christ died so that we might be zealous for good works (Titus 2:14). Women should seek to dress their lives in works that do good to others, marked with godly love.

This means modesty is not simply about what we wear, but how we act, how we communicate, and how relate to others.

4. Modesty shows sensitivity to sin
In this text Paul says a woman’s apparel should be worn with “modesty.” Other translation opt for the word “decency.” The King James Version translates this “shamefacedness,” which gets more to the heart of the word.

It is talking about a demeanor of reverence, showing respect to oneself and a regard for others. It even carries the connotation of “bashful.” Connected to the term “shame,” the word implies the idea of grief over sin that is in the world—that a woman would be so sensitive to sin, knowing that sin is offensive to God, that she would never come close to trying to provoke it in others.

No, a woman is not guilty of a man’s lust if she dresses with the intention to allure him. Let him account for his sins. But she is guilty of a lack of shamefacedness, for treating sin lightly. A heart of modesty is motivated by a love for one’s fellow man.

5. Modesty involves cultural discretion
Paul didn’t just paint broad strokes when talking about modesty; he gave specifics. He said braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire were out of place for a truly modest woman.

Some knowledge of Roman culture is helpful for understanding what Paul is saying. In Paul’s day, Greek hairstyles for women were fairly simple: hair was parted in the middle and pinned in the back. But a culture change was sweeping the region. Women in the imperial household were wearing their hair with elaborate curls and braids, covered in expensive ornaments. The elite throughout the empire copied this style.

For Paul, the appearance of braids and ornaments was more about what the fashion communicated. They carried connotations of imperial luxury and conjured up images of notoriously immoral Empresses like Valeria Messalina and Poppeaea Sabina, ancient equivalents of Cosmopolitan cover girls.

The poet Juvenal, a contemporary of Paul, gives a vivid description of this cultural trend:

“There is nothing that a woman will not permit herself to do. Nothing that she deems shameful. And when she encircles her neck with green emeralds and fastens huge pearls to her elongated ears, so important is the business of beautification. So numerous are the tiers and stories piled one another on her head that she pays no attention to her own husband.”

Similarly, the philosopher Philo gives a description of a prostitute in his writing called “The Sacrifices of Cain and Abel”:

“A prostitute is often described as having hair dressed in elaborate braids, her eyes with pencil lines, her eyebrows smothered in paint and her expensive clothes embroidered lavishly with flowers and bracelets and necklaces of gold and jewels hanging all over her.”

Paul’s description of immodest dress conjured a picture of someone preoccupied with appearance, fashion, luxury, and sexual prowess. Similarly, modern modesty standards are not about arbitrary rules of how much skin is shown or how low-cut something is, but about the messages and values our clothing communicates.

6. Modesty is about true freedom, not repression
More often than not, modesty standards are seen as repressive, arbitrary rules that restrict a woman’s creativity and freedom. But when modesty is motivated from the heart, the exact opposite is true.

Paul says women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel with “self-control.” This might be better understood as “self-mastery,” being of sound mind or sober, being in control of one’s impulses and appetites. In extra-biblical literature, this word has sexual nuances: being able to totally control your romantic and erotic desires.

Immodesty is often, though not always, a kind of slavery. A woman may be enslaved by her desire to attract a man. She might define her worth by her fashion sense, her sex appeal, her image, her bust size, her weight, or the brand names she wears. This kind of slavery is widespread because sin impacts us all, and in today’s sexually charged, media-saturated culture, many women fall prey to this kind of slavery.

But as Christians we are free from the slavery of sin because we are united to Christ. Paul exhorts us to live out this freedom: “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions” (Romans 6:12). When it comes to modest dress, we can follow Paul’s next statement quite literally: Do not present the members of your body to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present your members to God as instruments for righteousness (v.13). Paul wants Christian woman to have self-mastery in their wardrobe choices, to be totally free from worldly ways of defining worth, beauty, and sexiness.


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## blazingthru (Dec 28, 2014)

Ironically, it is not just those who are scantily dressed that are enslaved, but even those who pride themselves on their modesty. “Modest is hottest,” they say, unaware that in their own hearts, they are still enslaved to a preoccupation with their physical image, still defining their worth by their outward adornment.

Defining Modesty
Taken together, these aspects of modesty help to give us a working definition. Modesty is a respectable manner of adorning one’s body and carrying oneself, born out of a freedom from a worldly definition of beauty and worth, and motivated by a hatred of sin and a desire to draw attention to God.  

*When it comes to the subject of modest clothing, the first question we should ask ourselves is: What am I trying to accomplish by what I wear?*


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## felic1 (Dec 28, 2014)

blazingthru These points are good. I think my clothes are modest. Perhaps what I believe are modest and convenient for me may be a stumbling block to others. I own and wear jogging suits because they are easy and comfortable. I can run errands in them with walking shoes with ease. I have a lot of responsibilities as a divorced parent and need to be comfortable so I can get done. I also have some arthritis and do not wear heels a lot. It is just preposterous to worry that someone is grumbling about your shoes and outfits. I cannot imagine that men in the church are even checking me out. This is because I certainly am not checking them out. I have a bust and wear supportive foundation. I spend money on these to hold myself up well. I cant be troubled that someone is going to be looking at my chest. I do not have the side or circumference of my breasts exposed to anyone. I do have hot flashes and cannot wear turtlenecks. I try to cover up.


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## Shimmie (Dec 28, 2014)

felic1 said:


> @blazingthru These points are good. I think my clothes are modest. Perhaps what I believe are modest and convenient for me may be a stumbling block to others. I own and wear jogging suits because they are easy and comfortable. I can run errands in them with walking shoes with ease. I have a lot of responsibilities as a divorced parent and need to be comfortable so I can get done. I also have some arthritis and do not wear heels a lot. It is just preposterous to worry that someone is grumbling about your shoes and outfits. I cannot imagine that men in the church are even checking me out. This is because I certainly am not checking them out. I have a bust and wear supportive foundation. I spend money on these to hold myself up well. I cant be troubled that someone is going to be looking at my chest. I do not have the side or circumference of my breasts exposed to anyone.
> 
> I do have hot flashes and *cannot wear turtlenecks*. I try to cover up.


 
felic1 

I smiled when I read the bolded regarding turtlenecks (but not about the hot flashes - that's has to be very challenging).  

I smiled because I cannot wear turtlenecks either; however for me it's because I have a round face and turtlenecks draw attention to it making me look all the more rounder with chipmunk apple cheeks.    

I fair better with a mock-turtle or a regular (still modest) neckline in a blouse, shirt, sweater or dress.


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## blazingthru (Dec 30, 2014)

felic1 said:


> blazingthru These points are good. I think my clothes are modest. Perhaps what I believe are modest and convenient for me may be a stumbling block to others. I own and wear jogging suits because they are easy and comfortable. I can run errands in them with walking shoes with ease. I have a lot of responsibilities as a divorced parent and need to be comfortable so I can get done. I also have some arthritis and do not wear heels a lot. It is just preposterous to worry that someone is grumbling about your shoes and outfits. I cannot imagine that men in the church are even checking me out. This is because I certainly am not checking them out. I have a bust and wear supportive foundation. I spend money on these to hold myself up well. I cant be troubled that someone is going to be looking at my chest. I do not have the side or circumference of my breasts exposed to anyone. I do have hot flashes and cannot wear turtlenecks. I try to cover up.



Hi felic1, I don't think you have to wear turtle necks at all if you don't want too, when you put your blouse, shirt or whatever on look in the mirror bend over if you can see your breast your belly all the way down its to low. I have tee shirts, I got them  at AC made by jockey they have a high front so I can wear them under certain clothes.  

I was talking to my friend and she said now that you mention it I notice a man was trying to look down my shirt when I bend over and I never notice it before she said she started wearing camies. We had a great conversation but not as long as I would have like.  *Her question was if I am going to wear all that covering up how am I going to attract a man, ha there in lines where her heart was in terms of dressing. *

I yelled ha there in lies the problem, that is the one thing I want to avoid, I really want a man to get to know me for me. I can't be anyone else and I tried that before and I wouldn't want a man to be interested in me for my body because as soon as some woman walks by revealing all that she has his mind will be focused on that and he'll be moving along. where as as he gets to know and love me other woman may seem trashy to him revealing all their business, I don't know, I know that if I got him showing sexy I will lose him for the same reason.


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## ToyToy (Dec 30, 2014)

This will be an unpopular post.

I don't believe that dressing 'modestly' will get me any closer to holiness. That starts in my heart. I also don't believe that God is interested in how I dress as much as He is interested in whether or not I will fulfil the purpose He has set for me in life. The way I dress I check with my spirit. If within my spirit I have a conviction that the item of clothing I'm about to buy or wear is inappropriate, I won't buy or wear it. But that's down to my personal conviction. I don't impose that on other people, neither am I interested in how others dress themselves. I also don't assume that, because a woman (or man) isn't dressed in what some might call a 'modest manner', they don't have a personal and active relationship with God. 

I'm not saying, let it all hang out, but I will not actively seek out clothing that does not suit me and makes me feel uncomfortable. 

Modesty is very subjective. I once asked my mum why she wore ill-fitting bras, and she said the other bras (i.e. the right sized bras) made her breasts 'stand up too much'. To her, they made her look immodest. And my mother is quite large breasted. I am a 32G myself, and I spend good money on good bras that keep my breasts exactly where they should be. 

To some a pair of skinny jeans might be ok. To others they are immodest. To some, a sleeveless shirt (however lose fitting) is immodest. To others, it's not. It's subject to a person's background (usually culturally as well).

To some denominations wearing jewellery is immodest. I don't wear jewellery myself, but that's because I don't like or get it. However my modestly dressing mother *loves* jewellery and wouldn't leave the house without at least a pair of earrings and a watch. Does this make her any less modest?

To some wearing makeup is an abomination. Why try alter the way the good God made you? But that just opens another can of worms. Shall I stop doing my hair, because the good Lord gave me kinky hair, and therefore I'm just going to leave it as is? And what about the 'modestly dressed' women with weaves and wigs? Are they still modest, since their skirts are the 'right' length? Or are they leading men to sin with their long flowing (fake) hair?

I don't wear jewellery but I love my make up. I'm a makeup and skincare junkie. No, I don't look like a parrot. Neither do I look like I just jumped out of a YouTube video. I simply look (and feel) nice. 

I also wanted to address the issue about leading men to sin. First - everyone is responsible for their own salvation and therefore responsible for their own sin. (That's been addressed already.) 
I could wear a sack for a top, and with my boobs, someone might still find me attractive and sin in his heart. That's not my problem. That's the guy's problem. 

The other thing is about attracting a partner. I've had this discussion with many men (of all walks of life), and they have all said the same thing. Men are visual (as are women). I wouldn't find a guy in an oversized suit attractive, even if that's what he thinks is modest. I don't need them wearing tight t-shirts and jeans - just dress for your shape and feel confident in that. 

Finally, what I'm really trying to say is to let your conviction lead you. I'll repeat what I said earlier - God is much more interested in whether I fulfil my purpose in life than whether or not I decide to wear skinny jeans. 

That said, if dressing in whatever you decide is modest is what will give you peace, then go for it. As long as you don't judge others that don't. Salvation is personal, and each is responsible for their own.


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## felic1 (Dec 30, 2014)

ToyToy I think that your post is nice and true. It is important to follow your convictions. I buy things that are not too revealing and I think are appropriate to wear outside of the home and to service. People with lustful thoughts have a problem. The people being lusted after are not the ones in sin. Also, lust starts in the heart. I occasionally wear makeup and jewelry. I wear more makeup when it is cold. I think that your post was well written


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## blazingthru (Jan 3, 2015)

Catholic and Modesty

http://www.catholicmodesty.com/MarylikeStandardsofModestyinDress.html
http://www.catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/the-blessed-virgins-guide-to-catholic-modesty
http://saintsworks.net/Modesty and Purity.htm
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/A005_Fashion.htm

Baptist
http://www.bpnews.net/14406/christian-women-have-obligation-to-dress-modestly-mary-mohler-says
http://thebaptistvoice.com/categories/student-ministry/does-god-care-what-we-wear
http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life/current-events/op-ed-blog/26523-is-modest-really-hottest

http://www.theapostolicwayupcff.com/page/holiness_12744

SDA 

www.sistersinskirts.com

www.RemnantRaiment.com

http://www.MovingTowardModesty.com

http://www.CoveredWithChrist.com

http://www.TheConsecratedCloset.com (for those just beginning to study modesty)


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## CoilyFields (Jan 3, 2015)

ToyToy

I agree with your whole post. 
Modesty begins in the heart and extends outward. What may be modest to one is immodest to another. Everyone's at different levels of maturity in Christ as well and so will learn how to listen to the holy spirit concerning their clothing. 

I've recently had to alter my clothing at church because I am now doing praise and worship. What I think appropriate to wear if I'm going to be before the people and moving a lot is different for me then when I'm just in the pews. For example now I have to think about what's my clothing will look like if I lift my hands all the way up to the sky. Or if I would normally wear a pair of skinny jeans a long-ish shirt and heels, I wouldn't wear that leading praise and worship. 

For the ladies who are married have you and your husband ever disagreed on what modest is? What happens if you disagree?


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## dicapr (Jan 3, 2015)

I definitely think that what is modest can change depending on the environment and activity and even the fabric of the outfit. I will wear a dress made of a heavier fabric shorter than and dress of a flimsy more "feminine" fabric because for me the lighter fabrics tend to ride up more than the heavier fabric.   

Besides covering the 3 "b"s-butt, boobs, and belly I don't have any hard and fast rules about what should be covered because there are none in the bible. While I can see where wearing long skirts and long sleeves are modest I can't say I believe wearing short sleeves is immodest. I've never heard of sexy elbows before so I feel showing those are ok.


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## blazingthru (Jan 5, 2015)

*Dressing Up or Down: the Testimony of an Ex-Model*

by Gwen Shorter
*
What happens when high fashion meets the High King of Heaven?*


The streets of New York City, with their hustle, bustle, bright lights, and millions of people, were the place to be! "How exciting!", I thought to myself, as I hurried from one appointment to another, swinging my portfolio. I was a model in the fashion capital of the world, and dressing up or down was highly competitive.

Models set the standards for what most women call beauty. On television, in the magazines, newspapers, shows, etc., there used to be set styles. Anyone can put clothes on, but models must put it all together to attract and alarm the senses. They must sell clothes and themselves. And there I was, right in the middle of it all. I knew the power of a fashionable, well-dressed woman, and I wanted to use that power to help me climb the show business ladder.

In those days I wore micro mini skirts, pants and form-fitting sweaters, shorts, and anything else I wanted to help draw attention. "You can look, but don't touch!"--that was my motto.

And I loved my shoes! Every time I bought a new dress I had to buy a new pair of shoes. My heart would actually speed up with the excitement of just looking at a pair of fancy shoes. I just knew they were made for me--just my style! I would deny myself food, if necessary, to buy what I wanted to dress up or down.

My manicure and pedicure were always polished to perfection in order to keep up with my "beauty." I had jars, bottles, and tubes of all sorts of concoctions. Between facial masques, moisterizers, toners, foundations, eye shadow, pencil liner and brush, lipstick and lip gloss, body powder and face powder, perfume, polish for the nails, polish remover, files, expensive hairdos, false eye lashes, leg shaving paraphernalia, etc., etc., I spent hundreds of dollars just to keep myself "together."

Dressing up was not complete without my jewelry. To my eyes, those precious trinkets and ornaments of gold and silver made any outfit look exquisite. My jewelry box overflowed with all kinds of earrings, necklaces, bracelets, brooches, and rings. To be honest, I worshiped jewelry! I felt naked without it--and besides, it made me look good whether I dressed up or down!

rule

Perfect?

Always in the mirror I was checking this and checking that--everything had to be just perfect. My everyday ritual of pampering and primping took about two hours of time before I was ready to face the public. When I emerged to meet the public eye, I would get those whistles, cat calls, and turn-around looks from men. I would appear not to hear or even see them. My motto was "Look, but don't touch."

To be honest, I worshiped jewelry! I felt naked without it.

The first argument I had with my husband, Rick (before we were married), was over the mini skirts and low cuts I wore. I flatly told him if he didn't like it, "find someone else," and I meant it. I had no intention of changing, and he never brought up the subject again. Nobody was changing me! And besides--change to what? I only knew one way--my way of dressing up or down.

As a model in the early 1970s with one of the top black modeling agencies in New York City, my fee was $60 an hour, $30 an hour to try on the clothes and have them fitted. There is hardly anything in the world that fosters pride and vanity more than being in front of a camera!

rule

The "Max" Factor

Make-up was just about the most important factor in my so-called beauty. It was not unusual for me to spend $40 to $50 for make-up regularly. Most of the make-up focused on the eyes. A determined effort goes into making the eyes as seductive and glamorous as possible. Much skill and precision is employed to make the result appear "natural," but everyone knows the naked truth. The idea is to make it appear that your eyes are big, your cheek bones high, your nose thin, your lips thin, your cheeks aglow with rosiness (a false look of health), your eyebrows thin and haughty-looking. This fosters vanity, pride and self-deception. And the Bible says that those who love or make a lie will be outside the gates of the city (Rev 22:15).

Make-up is meant to attract. And just what it attracts is not always desirable. Many times in my career as a model, actress, and nightclub singer, I would not take off my make-up for days at a time. I dreaded facing the truth of what I really looked like. So I know from experience that make-up subtly builds up a feeling of insecurity or makes a bad case of insecurity worse. However, it is supposed to do just the opposite: make you feel good about yourself. It doesn't work, but you pretend it does anyway. I saw the phony it had made of me. I was already out on that limb--and didn't know how to get back. Will I be accepted without my make-up? This was a big question in my mind.

rule

Clear Lives

As Christians, our lives should be as clear as crystal. We have nothing to hide or be ashamed of. Our appearance--hair, face, style of dress and shoes--should speak of plainness and natural simplicity in beauty. After becoming a Christian and stripping myself of all jewelry (a ring on almost every finger, pins, pierced earrings, bracelets, necklaces) and arched eyebrows, nail polish, make-up, I literally had to get used to the "new" me all over again.

It was a battle with self all the way. Only through Christ was I able to overcome this obsession for worldly things. Ellen G. White was right: "The life of nine tenths of those who are devotees of fashion is a living lie. Deception, fraud, is their daily practice; for they wish to appear that which they are not" (Messages to Young People, p. 359). The most important thing to be remembered about wearing make-up, jewelry, or anything to attract attention to self is that people do it to make "self" appear to be that which it is not! It is like an "enemy in the camp."

rule

Being a Christian

As Christians, our lives should be as clear as crystal. We have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

So you want to be a Christian? Certain things work to help you and certain things work against you. You will never, ever overcome pride and vanity unless you rid yourself absolutely of all these "enemies in the camp." Make-up is like a bad seed in good soil: it will bring forth its fruit, and you won't like the harvest. Resolutely decide by God's grace to have nothing to do with these enemies, and you'll really begin to accept yourself just as God made you! In this Christian warfare we need all the help we can get, without throwing the door wide open and inviting the enemy in!


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## blazingthru (Jan 5, 2015)

Here are twelve reasons why wearing make-up and jewelry is not in harmony with the consecrated Christian life:

It's a waste of money.
It fosters pride and vanity in the heart.
It destroys simplicity and modesty of demeanor and appearance.
It covers your natural beauty--as God made you.
It develops feelings of insecurity (you think you don't look your "best" without it).
It's a waste of time (making-up). Time (every minute) is a talent from God.
It will force you into associations which are frivolous and unChristlike.
It is unhealthful to clog the pores and risk damaging the eyes with these dangerous chemicals and dyes.
Make-up and jewelry are meant to attract, therefore you might attract--you know what.
It's a lie, and Satan is the father of lies.
It destroys love of eternal realities.
Your heavenly Father doesn't like it.
rule

Jesus Made the Difference

Meeting Jesus was like a miracle. Everything I ever wanted in life--love, acceptance, security, and peace of mind--I found in Him. I did not have to change for Jesus, but His love changed me! I did not know I could have a personal experience with my Savior. I did not know He loved me so much--as if I were the only one in the whole wide world. I did not know Jesus was soon coming back to His earth again.

When I learned these things, no one had to tell me, "take off your make-up, jewelry, and immodest clothes." When I looked in the mirror after I surrendered my life to Jesus, I didn't look the same to myself. What I had thought was so beautiful looked ugly, phony, pretentious, and proud! I was like one of the proud daughters of Zion described by the prophet Isaiah in Isa. 3:l6-26.

rule

Shedding

No one had to tell me jewelry was inappropriate for the humble follower of Jesus. When I read those Bible texts on jewelry, I began shedding all my little precious idols from head to toe. What a relief! Nothing between my Saviour and me! "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works" (1 Tim 2:9, 10).

When I looked in the mirror after I surrendered my life to Jesus, I didn't look the same to myself. What I had thought was so beautiful looked ugly, phony, pretentious, and proud!

"Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price" (1 Pet 3:3, 4).

No one had to tell me to get rid of mini skirts, pants, and low cuts. One day I packed them all up and took them to a local thrift shop. Why? Because I knew Jesus would not like them and I wanted to do everything to please the One who saved me from death and destruction. I had to ask the Lord to forgive me, because I knew I had caused many a man to sin in his heart because of the way I dressed.

And no more nakedness for me, in the name of water, sun and fun! That "colored underwear" I used to wear to the beach, all of a sudden became "strange apparel" (see Prov 7:10).

Now I know God made man with a sexual nature quite different from that of a woman. Man's sexual nature is so sensitive that it can be ignited into a fire by just the sight of a half-dressed or seductively-dressed woman. The short or tight skirt, low cut blouse, stocking legs, form fitting sweaters, pants, or jeans, all distract the minds of most men with unholy thoughts. The indulgent look, with desire, can destroy a man--and a woman! That strange apparel could mean the loss of eternal life not just to one man, but a whole host of them.

Before, I was dressing to bring attention to myself. Now, I want to hide behind Jesus. Before, I wasted hundreds of dollars and hours of precious probationary time trying to make myself beautiful by the world's standard. Now, I spend those hours in the study of God's Word and in prayer. I realize now that real beauty consists of a Christ-like character. Before, I loved dressing up or down--showing off fine clothes, forcing more and more clothes into my already overflowing closet, and trying to keep pace with the ever-changing fashions. Now, I measure my wardrobe by God's Word. Before, I was insecure. I wouldn't let anyone see me without my "make-up." Now, I am plain, placid, and pleased to be a child of the King. I feel secure because I know Jesus loves me just the way I am, and this gives me the courage to share this message of truth with all who will listen.

With my burden lifted and my idols torn down, what peace, sweet peace I enjoy! The change in me happened over 25 years ago. I still like to dress up, but only in Christ's beautiful robe of righteousness, and down with everything that displeases Him.

[Adapted from Thy Nakedness: Lord, What Shall I Wear? (Earlton, N.Y.: Homeward Publishing, 1997).]


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## Divine. (Jan 5, 2015)

^^^^I don't agree with this. I don't walk by the words of man, but by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Nothing in these "reasons" are based on biblical principles. Those are that person's convictions, not mine. Even after reading this thread, I still don't feel conviction about wearing makeup or changing my style of dress (I may be young, but I know what not to wear). Maybe in time God will give me that revelation. But I must say, if I am not living a true Christian life because I choose to wear makeup on the days I want to look nice, then I must not be hearing from the same God as everyone else. The God I have grown to love and adore surely must be a counterfeit because there is no way he would put up with my blasphemy.  

Adornments don't make me who I am. I am confident in Christ alone. My self-esteem isn't built on how I look but who I know God created me to be. I feel like this article insinuates that anyone who wears makeup or wears jewelry is less than a Christian. If that is so, I guess I am no longer welcome around these parts (not that I'm actually leaving ). I guess that my relationship with Christ isn't real enough. Is that really what we're trying to say here? 

I hope I'm not coming off as defensive, but I would to like hear if I am not a Christian because I wear makeup.


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## blazingthru (Jan 5, 2015)

Divine. said:


> Adornments don't make me who I am. I am confident in Christ alone. My self-esteem isn't built on how I look but who I know God created me to be. I feel like this article insinuates that anyone who wears makeup or wears jewelry is less than a Christian. If that is so, I guess I am no longer welcome around these parts (not that I'm actually leaving ). I guess that my relationship with Christ isn't real enough. Is that really what we're trying to say here?
> 
> I hope I'm not coming off as defensive, but I would to like hear if I am not a Christian because I wear makeup.



I don't think its anyone's right to tell you, you are not a christian your relationship with God is your relationship, he has set forth certain standards that at this age its very difficult for many to wrap their minds around. I know if I had heard this message at 20, It would have been a wash for me. I was very  much into how I looked, though I was never that girl. Many, Many woman are committing to the Modesty movement but are struggling with the change.  Its not easy, but it is doable for those wiling to make the sacrifice, because honestly that is what it would be a sacrifice. I am learning to sacrifice myself from certain foods that I love but are just not good for me at all. 

I don't wear make up or jewelry. I stopped wearing make up in my twenties. Never picked it up again. I wore it on occasions. As a result my skin doesn't look like my age. I look 20 years younger. I was convicted from the start with jewelry. I never left the house without it. you could not pay me to wear it now. its uncomfortable. Nail polish is uncomfortable to me and I have tons of it. but hate to wear it.  Now I am learning about my clothing and I'll say that for me I want my heart to be right with God, who can claim my life at this very moment.  

This message will change some lives and have no effect on others. It is not for me to judge anyone. Or browbeat and accuse. I am just posting articles as I see them to help encourage others that are interested and food for thought for passerby's.  

I believe a Christian woman does not wear make up or jewelry or wear tight revealing, see through, to short, to high dress, skirts, or shoes. I have always felt that something wasn't right with it but thought oh well this is how everyone dress, never thinking there is a better way that God wants us to dress. God has specific standards for those he calls his own. 

This message has never been preached in service that I have been apart of this is my own study that I am doing. This is my convictions. It started with College students and high school young ladies who decided to go Modesty and how their lives have changed. 

This is not hard for me, what is hard for me is giving up my potato chips.


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## dicapr (Jan 5, 2015)

@Divine. I think the point your making is wearing make-up and jewelry is not necessarily an adornment for everyone. I think the issue with many modesty arguments are the gross generalizations. While make-up and jewelry may have been a real issue for the woman who wrote the article it doesn't necessarily apply to the attitudes and feelings of all women. 

I remember when I was a teenager my grandmother loved for me to wear her full length mink coats when I dressed up. She grew up with the old Hollywood mentality and wearing a mink coat was definitely an adornment in her view. However, I grew up in the PETA generation. I was borderline horrified at wearing a coat of dead animals. Even though for her and the women in her age group wearing a mink coat was regal and elegant I definitely was not adorned.


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## Divine. (Jan 6, 2015)

dicapr That's exactly what I'm trying to say. There was a lot over generalization in that article I was referencing. As I read it, the author came off as someone who didn't have confidence growing up and relied on makeup and jewelry to make themselves feel good. Thus, when they did feel the conviction, it was because of the importance they put on those items. I can't relate to that, which is why I don't feel that me wearing makeup is a bad thing. I recognize I don't need it. However, I love how makeup gives you ability to literally create and transform. I already don't wear jewelry. Sometimes I may put a necklace on but that is rare.  

Like I said in my previous post, I don't think I'm called to this  I haven't felt (yet) convicted about my style of dress. In my walk, my "adornments" have not been a distraction. Men barely notice I exist  I mean if that's the overall premise of modesty (not being a distraction or attracting men), then I guess I'm just cloaked with a veil of righteousness lol 

Good luck with going modest blazingthru. Not everyone can or is willing to do it, so it's inspiring to see you take it on.


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## JaneBond007 (Jan 6, 2015)

The implications are still the same..."do this and if you don't, you're not good on your walk with Christ."  He doesn't expect us to dress as the Virgin Mary.  How is there a modesty movement when it's required of the faithful?  Common sense modesty.  Obviously, we are confusing what it truly is.  There's no booklet to tell you where to shop for clothing.  Modesty in some countries looks differently.  This is becoming legalistic.  People should do what they are led to but be very careful not to imply that others are not open to what G-d is telling us all because there are differences of opinion on how "modesty" appears.  True, modesty is a virtue.  Should I bare deep cleavage or bottom or stomach?  Well, it depends.  What am I doing at the time?  Swimming?  Would I wear such attire to church?  

I'm around people who dress frum all the time.  They don't judge me, I don't judge them.  They don't think lowly of me for not dressing in orthodox fashion.  Some use jewelry, makeup etc.  Others don't...on either side.  We have an understanding that we all have choices.  We all dress modestly and it looks differently.  We don't infringe upon the choices of others by implying they are not modest enough.  Yes, it's required scripturally...and it also manifests in various ways depending upon the person and the culture.  I know I said I was not going to comment...well, I had to in this case.


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## JaneBond007 (Jan 6, 2015)

dicapr

Yes, I agree totally on that.  I know of a discussion about undergarments and people are downing the VS and other lines as immodest. It's underwear.  I don't need to wear huge granny cotton whites.  I can remember when grandmothers etc. were against bikini underwear and hipsters.


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## CoilyFields (Jan 6, 2015)

We have to be careful not to call something a sin that God has not called a sin. He has called us to modesty but did not give a specific formula for that. So we cannot say make-up and jewelry or sleeveless shirts or bikini's are sin. 
What we can say is that we must allow the Holy Spirit to guide _us_. 

A lot of how we dress is just good etiquette (knowing what is appropriate for your current environment and your body). 

Modesty IS subjective. Different occasions, environments, cultures, ages, intentions, etc. all contribute to what is modest.


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## blazingthru (Jan 6, 2015)

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV 1900)

16 *All scripture* is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, *for instruction in righteousness*:

Though many woman are not brought up with the truth, as we become adults we know what is acceptable and what is not acceptable and exposing your breast is not acceptable, we all know that, so we don't expose our breast but we do when we wear revealing clothing. Its not consider as bad as being totally naked. But God says it is bad.

Jesus made it clear that men are easily led into wrong thinking. He said, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:27, 28.

And what can be said for the women who dress in such a way that they stimulate this kind of thinking? They are equally guilty before God. For this reason no true Christian woman, who understands the effect of such a course, will wear the revealing clothes which create such illicit desires. As the dress inches above the knee, the climate of sin is created. For the carnal man, who has not the power of the gospel in his life, there is no chance whatever to resist the temptation. Every miniskirt is fuel which triggers the mind to think the most debased thoughts of which the carnal nature is capable. Christian women should have no share in this kind of enticement.

Indeed, the second greatest commandment of Jesus would be violated by such a course. Christ said, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' How could a woman wear clothing that was designed to cause her neighbor's husband to commit mental adultery and not be guilty of breaking that law of love? Would she love her neighbor as herself if she willfully did something to cause her neighbor's husband to sin against his wife and against God?

We are dealing here with actions which cause others to sin. Moral issues are directly involved. 

1 Timothy 2: 9, 10,  “likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,  but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.” 

Luke 6: 46, “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”

John 14: 15, “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”

Modesty has fallen out of style because the church has married the world. Being modest in our lives and in our clothing is a commandment. Dare we tell God that we love Him if we aren't willing to obey Him in all things, including in the way we dress? We are God's people, the bride of Christ. We are to be holy–that is, set apart unto God. Let's live like it.

Ladies, men are vision driven. We have a responsibility to help our brothers to live a holy life. We must not cause them to stumble by our words, by our actions, by our deeds or by our clothing.

I've heard young women say that if they were wearing a bikini and a guy lusted after them, it was his problem and his alone. These young ladies suggested that guys should simply avert their eyes when confronted with their near-nakedness. Yes, men have to take responsibility for their actions and if they give into lust, God holds them accountable. However, if you as a woman have dressed in such a way as to cause a man to lust, God will hold you accountable, also. Luke 17: 1, 2 says, “Then he said unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than he should offend one of these little ones.” God takes our responsibilities as His children seriously. We ought to, also. As Christian women, we have got to realize what our immodesty does to guys:  we can cause our brothers in Christ to stumble; by doing so, we  mar our witness and blaspheme God's holy name.

I've seen my sons have to repeatedly advert their eyes while standing among the ladies at church. This ought not to be. Women have a responsibility to men. These men who might struggle when confronted with your improper dress, they are your brothers in Christ. God will not take it lightly if you cause them to sin. There are many, many men out there like my sons who want to go to church and be free from things that will tempt them so that they can be free to simply worship the Lord. Help them.

We do not belong to ourselves, we belong to God. It is God alone that we must please. I Corinthians 6: 20 says, “For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.” Everything about our lives should glorify our Savior. A woman's clothes ought to frame her face and not her body. Ladies, our clothing should show that we are women of God rather than suggest that we are on display for men to enjoy. It is a sin for your clothing to shout, “Look at me!”.

Immodesty is a sin. Men are looking at you and they are undressing you with their eyes. Men are feasting on you with their eyes. They are sinning because of you. You are partakers in their sin because you are setting them up for it. God will hold you responsible. If you dress in such a way that men will lust after you–it is your fault and your problem when they lust. If your clothes show off your belly, your hips, your breasts (by clinging to them or displaying them), it doesn't shout, “I'm a Christian. I'm a godly woman.” It shouts, “I'm on display. Look at me! Enjoy what you see!”

Modesty begins in the heart. A modest woman will exhibit qualities such as gentleness and humility (Colossians 3: 12). She will not strive to be “front and center” and gather attention for herself. Her clothing, like everything about her, will point to God.


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## dicapr (Jan 6, 2015)

blazingthru where do you draw the line?  What is a reasonable request for modesty and what isn't?  I think that is where the whole not causing your brother to sin argument falls apart. Is it reasonable to cover your arms, legs, hair, wear a veil so only your eyes show? Or should we not even show our eyes because a man's thoughts may go astray because he has met our gaze?       

   And yes the bible speaks on men looking on a woman to lust after and speaks of that being a sin. But "to" in the verse implies intent. For example I saw X men Days of Future past and there is a scene in which Hugh Jackman has a shot of his naked rear end. I did not into the viewing of that movie to enjoy or gaze on his nakedness.  And I wasn't expecting that much nudity-I thought it would be less revealing than it actually was. I noticed he had a great body and quickly moved on from the image. However, if I went to a all male review my intentions would be to lust-a sin. One was a surprise viewing that I quickly moved away from the other would be a premeditated decision to view someone who was not my spouse in a sexual manner.


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## CoilyFields (Jan 7, 2015)

dicapr said:


> blazingthru *where do you draw the line?  What is a reasonable request for modesty and what isn't?  *I think that is where the whole not causing your brother to sin argument falls apart. Is it reasonable to cover your arms, legs, hair, wear a veil so only your eyes show? Or should we not even show our eyes because a man's thoughts may go astray because he has met our gaze?
> 
> And yes the bible speaks on men looking on a woman to lust after and speaks of that being a sin. But "to" in the verse implies intent. For example I saw X men Days of Future past and there is a scene in which Hugh Jackman has a shot of his naked rear end. I did not into the viewing of that movie to enjoy or gaze on his nakedness.  And I wasn't expecting that much nudity-I thought it would be less revealing than it actually was. I noticed he had a great body and quickly moved on from the image. However, if I went to a all male review my intentions would be to lust-a sin. One was a surprise viewing that I quickly moved away from the other would be a premeditated decision to view someone who was not my spouse in a sexual manner.



I think the bolded is the big question. There are some things that I may think are quite ridiculous to consider immodest while there are things that I may consider immodest that someone else doesn't. Where is the line drawn and who gets to draw it? 

I believe that it is up to us (with maturity) and that is why God did not give us a formula. He knew that we would each have different things that would apply to us. For example, there are things that a slender woman can where and it look perfectly tasteful and modest, but put it on a buxom woman and it looks completely sexy. There is not a "one size fits all" to modesty due to the variables that I mentioned above.


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## JaneBond007 (Jan 7, 2015)

When everyone is at the beach, people sunbathe or swim.  You don't do that in a business suit.  There are modest bikinis etc.  This is simply legalism and is worry about others' lives and what they do/what you would have them do  rather than concern about what you feel you personally are called to.  I was with you  expressing YOUR need to dress a certain way until you started inferring that people aren't doing G-d's will.


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## blazingthru (Jan 7, 2015)

dicapr, glad you asked. What modesty now means to me and my intentions. I posted some pictures of the length of skirt and dress I think is appropriate, I don't believe any of your skin on your legs should show and if it does it should be covered with dark stockings or heavy panty-hoses, My arms should not be exposed and very little below my neck. 
I don't have to wear a veil and or hair covering, thought the jury is still out on that issue. If a man lust after me, I am in no way to blame, that is between him and God but if I have parts of my skin exposed then I will have to give an account for that reason. Since I FULLY understand the reason for being modest, not only because of men but for my own self worth, I can embrace the teaching.

 I have always been uncomfortable.  Tight jeans, tight skirts or to lose stuff, revealing shirts. I have always hated the way we have to chose to dress, never knowing things could be better. Don't get me wrong, I purchase and wore all those things. Including the beaded bras in the 90's. But I never took my jacket off. It was fashion and that is that. I wore pumps for years and my feet hurt then I switch to high heel mules same problem, nothing was comforting until  I changed my footwear and only wore heels for occasions, knowing I never have to do it again is a blessing to me. I think bunions are hideous and I never wanted one on my foot, corns was bad enough. I haven't had a corn since 1995. Sticking with fashion is embarrassing, painful and not healthy at all.  But we all have done so because that was our life but its no longer the life for me. 

As for the movies, I am surprise you even mention it.  When I became SDA no none goes to the movies or atleast confess to going. I do go but rarely. We know very well that that is probably the worst thing to do because, how many movies do not profane the name of the LORD.  Every movie I have ever seen sep for Christian movies take the name of the lord in vain and christians sit right there and watch to our own shame.  Yeah I do go to the movies but perhaps twice a year if that. I try to go with my parents now,  and we pick certain movies that are family generated and still somewhere in there there's a curse word here or there.  Nudity is a given, I can't imagine the topic of sex not coming up one way or another so there's no surprise at all. 

Dicapr this is all I can say to you. Your already convicted, I know that from your comments. Its not an easy decision to go Modest. I know it. I am struggling with the clothing because I don't have the means to get what I need I am doing the best I can with what I have. I know God will bless that, but this is not something pulled out of the air it is a command from God to make careful decisions about your choice of clothing. If its to tight its not modest, if it shows your limbs its not modest. I mean there is more to this movement then just covering our body it is our walk with God and how we have made Jesus lord of our life and we are open to his words in how we are to live our life, how we are to eat, drink and cover our-self and how we are to treat one another.  Everyone has to examine their own convictions and go from there. 

I place no judgement on anyone, but I know there are others whom do not speak who might want to learn more and I welcome those who agree and those who do not agree.  When folks do not agree it helps me explain better and better my reasons for going this route, because I can answer the questions I didn't have before or find the answer. But it really comes down how you want to present yourself before the Lord. 
Not my will but thine will, I will obey.. 

At this point in my life, I have nothing left to give up. I have given up everything and yet  I have learned there is still more. AMEN whatever it takes to keep me on my journey.


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## JaneBond007 (Jan 7, 2015)

L-rd, have mercy.  Legalism is a dangerous thing.


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## blazingthru (Jan 7, 2015)

JaneBond007 said:


> When everyone is at the beach, people sunbathe or swim.  You don't do that in a business suit.  There are modest bikinis etc.  This is simply legalism and is worry about others' lives and what they do/what you would have them do  rather than concern about what you feel you personally are called to.  I was with you  expressing YOUR need to dress a certain way until you started inferring that people aren't doing G-d's will.



I do not have a heaven or hell, I posted articles that speak on Modesty, key word was obedience and so then it becomes breaking the will of God. It is your decision whatever you chose to do. Regardless if its God's will or not. HE gives us free will to chose. However, he clearly states the difference between a fallen woman and a holy woman.  Without them speaking words we can determine which is the fallen woman and which is the holy woman. by their clothing.  

Many woman did not wear pants when I was a child nor heavy make up like they do now. If they did folks would call them whores. I did not wear pants until I was much older, you could not wear pants to school. you could when you were home but not to school and never ever in a church.  my grandmother never ever put a pair of pants on in her life and she died in the late 80's. this things we do is a new thing.  It gets worst and worst every year and more and more clothing comes off and folks stand up and say yeah thats great... Does anyone really think that God would approve of this when he says take off your ornaments oh by the way he clearly outlines the things he wants removed. 

Its in Jeremiah I have to find it. I'll get back on that issue.


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## blazingthru (Jan 7, 2015)

Modesty and the young
http://youtu.be/Gj4moN_17UM
http://youtu.be/5vORQWVFVtc
http://youtu.be/W9XhDLbDf5U
http://youtu.be/ci03ZTN46iQ
http://youtu.be/spxrmUQJrl4
http://youtu.be/7l7HlI4e8Tg


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## dicapr (Jan 7, 2015)

blazingthru I do practice modesty-but it isn't the type of modesty you are preaching. I am focused on learning to have a quiet, humble spirit-something I personally struggle with. I am learning to put myself second and allow God's plan to unfold without my "help".  The bible says that this type of adornment is the type that that wins over unbelievers.

   I do not dress in a manner that I consider sexy.  I am becoming a cami queen so that I don't accidentally expose my chest to someone out of consideration to my brothers in Christ. However, I am uncomfortable in perpetrating the belief that I am responsible for someone's sin. I also don't believe that I have to obliterate my female form with baggy covering clothing to be modest.     

Like I said in my original post I applauded  women who follow their convictions on modesty. What I take issue with is the idea that all modesty looks the same. Good luck in your transition to what you believe is a modest dress code.


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## JaneBond007 (Jan 7, 2015)

blazingthru said:


> I do not have a heaven or hell, I posted articles that speak on Modesty, key word was obedience and so then it becomes breaking the will of God. It is your decision whatever you chose to do. Regardless if its God's will or not. HE gives us free will to chose. *However, he clearly states the difference between a fallen woman and a holy woman.  Without them speaking words we can determine which is the fallen woman and which is the holy woman. by their clothing.  *
> 
> Many woman did not wear pants when I was a child nor heavy make up like they do now. If they did folks would call them whores. I did not wear pants until I was much older, you could not wear pants to school. you could when you were home but not to school and never ever in a church.  my grandmother never ever put a pair of pants on in her life and she died in the late 80's. this things we do is a new thing.  It gets worst and worst every year and more and more clothing comes off and folks stand up and say yeah thats great... Does anyone really think that God would approve of this when he says take off your ornaments oh by the way he clearly outlines the things he wants removed.
> 
> Its in Jeremiah I have to find it. I'll get back on that issue.



 I'm  a Hebrew catholic...I'm not looking for advice from a non-catholics because it often leads to people encouraging you to leave...if that makes sense.  BUT...I see some kinda danger in proclaiming that other people are disobeying G-d because they do not conform to YOUR idea of modesty.  It's pretty simple.  

What's not so simple, what do you mean you do not have a heaven nor hell?  I'm not preaching people are going to either for sins of commission/omission or holding to the 7 virtues.  

We wore pants to school when I was a kid.  It wasn't considered "dirty."  They were clothing.  And to the enboldened, I guess YOU can tell who is the fallen woman and who is not.  I don't have a crystal ball into people's private lives. And if I did see a prostitute or someone dressed showing a lot of skin, I know not to judge them.  We all have sensibilities and some things do irritate us, but there's a line not to cross.  You sure do have a lot of absolutes based upon YOUR interpretation of what you think G-d wants for everybody else.  If I were you, I'd worry about what it is that I were called to do and take your eyes off everybody else.  I'm not about to dress as a nun and I have NO regrets nor do I have ANY convictions about my clothing, makeup nor jewelry.  Sorry.  I'm responding to the inference that others aren't g-dly because YOU think they are not.  That's the whole point. Why not dress in a birqa and call it a day?


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## JaneBond007 (Jan 7, 2015)

Furthermore, and I truly mean this, the thread started off well and was interesting.  It's since spiraled to hell.  You simply cannot direct another through these legalistic means.  There is some serious exegesis that is needed and that would mean that context and history would be a part of it.

Now, I have my own preferences but I'm not going to directly judge someone's choices and I'm not going to say they are wrong.  That's where I feel you are veering off into trouble while trying to explain why you feel a certain type of modest expression is best.  You go beyond that into the realm of determining yourself who is good/bad.  There are general accepted cultural norms...this is all going well past.

Edit:  I know I sound dry and harsh...but I guarantee, it's not against YOU...it's against the implications made.  I am not angry...just getting to the point.  And I apologize if I've hurt your feelings with my bluntness.  But there is a danger zone here.  It's not that you don't have the right to see things as you do.  Please don't tell us that we aren't right with G-d because we don't follow your path.


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## CoilyFields (Jan 7, 2015)

blazingthru said:


> I do not have a heaven or hell, I posted articles that speak on Modesty, key word was obedience and so then it becomes breaking the will of God. It is your decision whatever you chose to do. Regardless if its God's will or not. HE gives us free will to chose. *However, he clearly states the difference between a fallen woman and a holy woman.  Without them speaking words we can determine which is the fallen woman and which is the holy woman. by their clothing.  *
> 
> Many woman did not wear pants when I was a child nor heavy make up like they do now. If they did folks would call them whores. I did not wear pants until I was much older, you could not wear pants to school. you could when you were home but not to school and never ever in a church.  my grandmother never ever put a pair of pants on in her life and she died in the late 80's. this things we do is a new thing.  It gets worst and worst every year and more and more clothing comes off and folks stand up and say yeah thats great... Does anyone really think that God would approve of this when he says take off your ornaments oh by the way he clearly outlines the things he wants removed.
> 
> Its in Jeremiah I have to find it. I'll get back on that issue.



blazingthru

To the bolded: are you getting this from a specific scripture? If so, which one?


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## ToyToy (Jan 9, 2015)

Again - Forcing personal convictions on others isn't the right way to go about things, and that's how this thread feels. 

I wear makeup and I look younger too. People guess my age at 25 (at the most), and I'm turning 38 this year. In contrast, I have a friend who hardly ever wears makeup (certainly no foundation, powder, mascara and the like - maybe some lipstick every now and then) and she looks every bit the 40 years that she is. 
Being younger-looking has nothing to do with not wearing makeup. It's simply to do with a) your genetic makeup (my mother also looks much younger than her age), b) good health / good living (good nutrition, exercise, etc) and c) your general outlook in life (are you a happy person?, etc). 

I wear makeup and skinny jeans, and I definitely hear God very clearly. I know this because I (and many, many others) see God's hand in my life. 

Wasn't there a thread here a while ago about jewellery where women compared  notes on who wears what kind of jewellery?? I posted in there and said I didn't wear any (simply because I don't like it and not because God told me He didn't like it) and kept it moving. I don't understand jewellery, but I won't judge women who like wearing it.

Everybody who wears makeup or jewellery does not worship it. And everybody who 'dresses nicely' is not doing it to be noticed by men (or women). Could it be that we like to look nice for ourselves (whatever our definition of 'nice' is)? 

Again - not saying, let it all hang out - but if one looks decent, then what's the problem?

I get waxed every month. Nobody sees this - only me. Am I now immodest??
I like nice underwear. Again - nobody sees this. Am I now immodest??

Paul said women should cover their heads. I'm not really seeing this in the church....... Do churches where women don't cover their heads hear God less? A lot of women preachers don't cover their heads. Does this mean that they are in sin and therefore are not hearing God?

Paul also said women should be quiet in church (paraphrasing). Should Joyce Meyer sit down and be quiet? Did God not call her and is God not using her (and so many other women)?

As someone else already asked - Where do we draw the line here? 

Let us all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling and stop imposing our convictions on other people.


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## blazingthru (Jan 9, 2015)

JaneBond007 said:


> I'm  a Hebrew catholic...I'm not looking for advice from a non-catholics because it often leads to people encouraging you to leave...if that makes sense.  BUT...I see some kinda danger in proclaiming that other people are disobeying G-d because they do not conform to YOUR idea of modesty.  It's pretty simple.
> 
> What's not so simple, what do you mean you do not have a heaven nor hell?  I'm not preaching people are going to either for sins of commission/omission or holding to the 7 virtues.
> 
> We wore pants to school when I was a kid.  It wasn't considered "dirty."  They were clothing.  And to the enboldened, I guess YOU can tell who is the fallen woman and who is not.  I don't have a crystal ball into people's private lives. And if I did see a prostitute or someone dressed showing a lot of skin, I know not to judge them.  We all have sensibilities and some things do irritate us, but there's a line not to cross.  You sure do have a lot of absolutes based upon YOUR interpretation of what you think G-d wants for everybody else.  If I were you, I'd worry about what it is that I were called to do and take your eyes off everybody else.  I'm not about to dress as a nun and I have NO regrets nor do I have ANY convictions about my clothing, makeup nor jewelry.  Sorry.  I'm responding to the inference that others aren't g-dly because YOU think they are not.  That's the whole point. Why not dress in a birqa and call it a day?




JaneBond007, um yeah this was a personal attack and your point is well taken. Again I posted articles that I read. I agree with the articles, because I agree that If I can read it in the word and if God says the word is Jesus Christ then I need to be obedient.  that is my point of view. I don't need the bible to speak everything word for word to be obedient. But thats me.   I spoke on the clothes I would wear. I spoke about what I felt about my decision to go modest.  Everyone else is free to be for or against. I like the negative because I need to support my reasons to go modest, but not to offend anyone. Whenever you make a decisions most times you need to know the answer for and against. I am learning that many are against, but deep down its a me thing.  

I've learned that a christian has to be willing to be obedient no matter the cause and that when we make a decision to become a christian we have to deny ourselves luke 9:23 and that is not taught often.  Self Denial. to be plain is not an easy decision if your use to living a certain way. I get that. In any case. I am not attacking anyone. This is a discussion about Modesty but its really about obedience. Lets face it Modesty does not fit in today s world. to be modest, God's standard of modesty, is to be different. 

In Isaiah 3:16 God does not generalize about ornaments, but gives a long list of specific articles that were being worn by the “daughters of Zion.” Now, let’s notice whether God, the same yesterday, today, and forever, was pleased with the wearing of these things. “Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet … in that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, … the chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, … the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, The rings, and nose jewels” (Isaiah 3:16-21). 

Let’s pause in the midst of this recital and ask the question, how will God take away these things? In the next chapter, verse 4, we read, “When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion … by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.” Don’t overlook the fact that God refers to all these objects of adornment as “filth.” He further describes most graphically the ones who survive the “washing away” of the ornament, “In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem” (Isaiah 4:2, 3). 

In bold, clear strokes, the prophet reveals the abhorrence of God for the manifestations of pride in wearing ornaments. After the washing away of those artificial baubles, God describes the women as being “comely,” “holy,” and “beautiful.” Apparently, He does not appraise beauty in the same way that we do. The women put on all their jewelry to make themselves beautiful, but God said it was filthy. When it was all washed away, He said they were comely and beautiful. Do not miss the extreme significance of this truth. God uses that word “comely” to describe His Bride, the Church. *“I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman” (Jeremiah 6:2)*. 

Now this is ornaments that is in the judgement, it is serious. I can imagine what God feels about our choice of clothing. I am guilty. I have said all that I will do but I haven't done any of it. I am completely covered but I still wear pants. I do not have long skirts yet. So how could I judge anyone when I am making a commitment that I can't live up to yet.  I hope the discussion continues on without me being personally attacked. but perhaps the issue instead.  As for it being in GOD's will isn't it in the bible.


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## dicapr (Jan 9, 2015)

@blazinthru I will ask you to read the entirety of those chapters. God is speaking of ill gotten riches, oppression of the rich, idolatry, and witchcraft in the first 3 chapters of Isaiah. The removal of jewels, headbands, fine clothes was because of pride. He also speaks of removing their mirrors and purses, and outer garments in the next verse-Isaiah 22:18-24. We would not argue that mirrors are inherently evil yet they were removed with the rings and bracelets.  While I agree that the removal of jewelry can be an act of modesty the entirety of the chapter reveals that their removal was punishment for their  misdeeds.    

    I believe that you must follow your convictions but here is some food for thought. We had a pastor bring in a bunch of different types of apples golden delicious, red delicious, Granny Smith, ect. Then he asked us to pick which one was perfect. However each Apple was "perfect" for the type of aple it was. He did all of this to remind us that Christian perfection isn't the same as uniformity. Your vision and practice of modesty will be different from mine. But is doesn't mean either one of us is not living up to this biblical principle. It means that we are simply different expressions of the modesty principle. So long as we let the Holy Spirit convict us we all will be fine.


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## Shimmie (Jan 9, 2015)

dicapr said:


> @blazinthru
> 
> I will ask you to read the entirety of those chapters. God is speaking of ill gotten riches, oppression of the rich, idolatry, and witchcraft in the first 3 chapters of Isaiah. The removal of jewels, headbands, fine clothes was because of pride. He also speaks of removing their mirrors and purses, and outer garments in the next verse-Isaiah 22:18-24. We would not argue that mirrors are inherently evil yet they were removed with the rings and bracelets.
> 
> ...


 
This is a wonderful post dicapr.   Thank you because it truly is beautifully expressed.


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## JaneBond007 (Jan 9, 2015)

blazingthru said:


> @JaneBond007, um yeah this was a personal attack and your point is well taken. Again I posted articles that I read. I agree with the articles, because I agree that If I can read it in the word and if God says the word is Jesus Christ then I need to be obedient.  that is my point of view. I don't need the bible to speak everything word for word to be obedient. But thats me.   I spoke on the clothes I would wear. I spoke about what I felt about my decision to go modest.  Everyone else is free to be for or against. I like the negative because I need to support my reasons to go modest, but not to offend anyone. Whenever you make a decisions most times you need to know the answer for and against. I am learning that many are against, but deep down its a me thing.
> 
> I've learned that a christian has to be willing to be obedient no matter the cause and that when we make a decision to become a christian we have to deny ourselves luke 9:23 and that is not taught often.  Self Denial. to be plain is not an easy decision if your use to living a certain way. I get that. In any case. I am not attacking anyone. This is a discussion about Modesty but its really about obedience. Lets face it Modesty does not fit in today s world. to be modest, God's standard of modesty, is to be different.
> 
> ...


 

But yet, you alluded to me and others being convicted by you as the Holy Spirit? Attack?  That's what you've done up in here against others.   Thanks.  Scripture does use metaphors.


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## Shimmie (Jan 10, 2015)

Hi Everyone:   

This thread started out well; with wonderful exchanges with everyone.  It's only being closed temporarily so I can read it through and find the needle which became a dagger and a sword.

It will be nice to start all over again.  

Back soon


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