# Should Christians Listen To Hip-Hop?



## Cinnabuns (Apr 6, 2005)

*I’ve just seen the DVD entitled “The Truth About Hip-Hip & Rap.”  The video talks about how we as Christians should stay away from the devils music such as, R & B, Hip-Hop, Rap, etc.  This video opened up my eyes to what the music industry is doing to our youth and even to us adults. He (Rev. G. Craig Lewis) talks about Snoop Dogg, DMX, Bone-Thugs & Harmony, Jill Scott, etc. I have thrown away all of my CD’s and tapes that do not edify God.  Rev. Lewis travels around the world preaching against the devils music and he is coming to my church next week and needless to say we are so overjoyed.  I highly recommend the he come to your church and present this amazing message to your congregation.  If you would like to buy the DVD and view it first then you can get it at this website.  www.exministries.com

I guarantee that this is something that you won’t forget.  *


----------



## Koffie (Apr 6, 2005)

Christian Hip-hop if any, but I can't preach that song to anybody, because I can regurgitate(sp.?) ALOT of secular music that I have listened to over the years. 

I wouldn't exactly call it "Devil's Music" because some of these secular artist are christians too.


----------



## pebbles (Apr 6, 2005)

G. Craig Lewis came to our church twice, and my kids no longer listen to hip-hop music. Yes, it was a real eye opener.


----------



## mkstar826 (Apr 6, 2005)

I think that no one should listen to or expose themselves to things that they feel conflicts with their beliefs.  i think it's a personal thing though...like i wouldn't stop listening to something just because someone else demonizes it. i would have to listen to it for myself and find out for myself why i believe it does or doesn't fall in line with what i believe.


----------



## miracle (Apr 6, 2005)

mkstar826 said:
			
		

> I think that no one should listen to or expose themselves to things that they feel conflicts with their beliefs.  i think it's a personal thing though...like i wouldn't stop listening to something just because someone else demonizes it. i would have to listen to it for myself and find out for myself why i believe it does or doesn't fall in line with what i believe.



*ITA!!!!!!!*


----------



## Blossssom (Apr 7, 2005)

I have never heard of him, but he is correct.  Christians should not engage in anything secular.


----------



## Enchantmt (Apr 7, 2005)

I didn't view the link but I personally dont have a problem with hiphop. I like the beats, I like the fact that our people and our children are so creative and talented that they can rhyme off the top of their heads.  They can tell a story and they lyrics and storyline just flow. Its amazing.

The lyrics in hip hop is something entirely different but you can find offensive lyrics in anything. We need to seperate the content from the genre. I personally don't listen to it a lot or I listen to the radio versions of songs. I tend to monitor my thoughts about things and long ago when I found myself looking at another woman and thinking in my mind "****" I knew there was a problem. I asked myself where that thought came from and I made a conscious decision to limit my exposure to lyrics after that. I personally think that listening to lyrics over and over again affect your mindset and how you relate to others and I was developing a negative attitude about my own people so I knew this had to stop.  I used to love eazy-E's voice, but I couldnt take the cussing, it was just to hard on my ears. The funny thing is, a lot of the radio verisons sound better than the explicit ones with all the cussing. 

Also you have to know that there are two hiphop elements. True hip hop followers define hip hop as black hip hop and commerical hip hop. Commercial hiphop, with artists like little jon for example, whose music have lyrics with little content or thought, and good beats to make they commercially viable and black hip hop with artists who have truly refined their craft and can spit lyrics with style, rhyme, content, intelligence. Sometimes there is cussing or offensive lyrics, sometimes not. They often complain about artists such as Jayz and Luda whom they say have dumbed down their lyrics for mass appeal and given into pressure from record companies. Record companies also only want to hear sex and violence so artists who would make good music often arent given the chance. 

As far as Christian Hip Hop, folx have problems with Hip Hop artists and artists with more modern music like Kirk Franklin which I just dont understand. You have to meet people on their level and if a catchy tune can make someone aware of Jesus or make them listen to a testimony that can change their life whats the problem folx? Jesus got ridiculed for associating with prostitutes and other common folx but he went out to meet them where they were and be with them on a level they could relate to. This debate just seems legalistic to me. When I saw the young boys on Benny Hinn rapping on stage a few years ago and he prayed over them I was in my room jumping up and down clapping. It was powerful and annointed. (Yeah I know some folx dont like Benny Hinn but lets focus people, lol!!)

http://www.angelfire.com/al2/Pray/newsletter_archive/December2001/page1.html

Christians are so quick to doom anything new. Tv. Movies. Music.Internet. All this can be used to bring glory to God and instead of embracing new things, we sit back, condemn it, and then "heathens" take it over and spread filth. THEN we want to sit back and complain and use the results as proof that we were right to begin with. *smh*. Most Christian hip hop artists, truly have a heart for God and a powerful message. They are continuing in their craft even tho Christians, the main ones that preach about being non judgemental, are against them, basically persecuting them and speaking against them on a regular basis. Unfortunately I dont have any artists to recommend. I rarely purchase ANY musics, maybe 5 cds or so in the last 2 years and those were mostly gospel. However I have heard a good sampling of the music, and viewed and read some of their testimonies. Yes I know there is a way that can seem right to a man that in the end leads to destruction, but I personally dont think this is the case here. 

As far a secular items in general, life is secular. Even the bible has a love story. That period of time had love songs and songs of celebration and songs about everyday life. God is good, God is Holy, He's also practical and I dont think I'm going to hell because I enjoy listening to will smiths "Summertime". In fact no music or anything else on this earth can make me lose my salvation. You will find some one some where to tell you why you are going to hell for doing everything from working on Sunday, wearing makeup, wearing pants, cutting your hair, and all other kinds of things that will keep you in the very bondage Christ died to free us from. We need to find balance in everything we do. Does what I do affect my quality of life? Yes. Do my actions affect my spiritual relationship with God? They can if I am sinning and out of fellowship. I'm not saying accept any and all things that come your way, we need to discern good from evil and its our responsibility to, but I think we still need to be more open minded and less legalistic and not judge someone who may very well be annointed to bring the message of Christ to the younger generations on a level they can relate to. Personally, I dont think God is powerless. Get them saved first and then God can deal with them and walk them though eliminating from their life what is not pleasing to Him - whether its music, behavior, dress, mindset, character, whatever. 

*tossing my 2cents (well ok $1.50) and wondering why Latifahs "Ladies First" and "Latifiahs Had It Up To Here" here is no longer on yahoo launch. Oh well maybe I can find my old cassette.*


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 7, 2005)

As I started growing in my Christian walk, I started to find a problem with hip-hop and rap music myself.  It just stoppped sounding good to me.  I would start paying more attention to what they're actually saying than the music and beat played behind it.  It's so sickening some of the things these artists sing about...sex, drugs, violence, being in jail, being a pimp/player, smoking, drinking, profanity...if it's bad, it's in that song!  And it's sad that it's so appealing to so many people...especially our youth.

I also heard a sermon preached about being a radical for Christ.  He talked about movies, videos, music, magazines, the whole nine yards.  He talked about how all these things can put impure thoughts in our mind and that we should avoid listening and seeing these things at all costs.  

So I'm in the process of finding some nice Christian music to listen to. I sometimes I have a bunch of burned CDs that I don't listen to anymore.  They just bring down my spirit. I sometimes listen to the radio to channel that plays hip-hop but from now on, I'm just gonna leave it on the gospel channel. 

I agree that Christians shouldn't be listening to hip-hop music if they want to be closer to God and have a pure heart and mind.  Anything that's unwholesome, filthy, degrading, leads to sin, should be avoided.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 7, 2005)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> I have never heard of him, but he is correct. *Christians should not engage in anything secular*.


If this was the case, us college women shouldn't be getting an education for a secular degree!


----------



## pebbles (Apr 7, 2005)

G. Craig Lewis exposes the history of hip-hop, and clearly, it's not for the faint at heart. There are a lot of things I NEVER knew about it's history, and then I started paying close attention to some of the lyrics of the music. . . Well, for me, I choose to guard my spirit. Music is one of the most powerful forces on earth, with the ability to influence people without them ever being aware of what is happening. When I think of how certain music by different artist have the ability to put me in different moods, I couldn't ignore it any longer. Neither could my boys, and for the enlightment, I'm eternally grateful to God.


----------



## Vet27 (Apr 7, 2005)

What did he say about Jill Scott?


----------



## Enchantmt (Apr 7, 2005)

Fred Price's son also had a segment a while ago about hip*hop and the church. In fact they sponser a Hip Hop Sunday to reach out to youth. I didnt get to see all of it but the video is avail from their online store. 

http://www.faithdome.tv/pr_details.asp?pid=1291&sid=3


Its not currently available now but if you check streaming faith regularly sometimes they have it there:

http://www.streamingfaith.com/sf_pr...__OTuR/v8Mwys=/pid__rosZHgpnJDE=/default.aspx


----------



## Cinnabuns (Apr 7, 2005)

Vet27 said:
			
		

> What did he say about Jill Scott?



* Hello Vet 27, 
Jill Scott does not believe in Jesus and believes that God is the black man. I believe it's Koran. I was shocked too until I did a research for myself and found out that she does say and believe in the things mentioned above.  These are Jill Scott's words not mine.*


----------



## Cinnabuns (Apr 7, 2005)

Enchantmt said:
			
		

> I didn't view the link but I personally dont have a problem with hiphop. I like the beats, I like the fact that our people and our children are so creative and talented that they can rhyme off the top of their heads.  They can tell a story and they lyrics and storyline just flow. Its amazing.
> 
> The lyrics in hip hop is something entirely different but you can find offensive lyrics in anything. We need to seperate the content from the genre. I personally don't listen to it a lot or I listen to the radio versions of songs. I tend to monitor my thoughts about things and long ago when I found myself looking at another woman and thinking in my mind "****" I knew there was a problem. I asked myself where that thought came from and I made a conscious decision to limit my exposure to lyrics after that. I personally think that listening to lyrics over and over again affect your mindset and how you relate to others and I was developing a negative attitude about my own people so I knew this had to stop.  I used to love eazy-E's voice, but I couldnt take the cussing, it was just to hard on my ears. The funny thing is, a lot of the radio verisons sound better than the explicit ones with all the cussing.
> 
> ...



*Interesting perception Enchantmt, I love how you pointed out that getting them saved first and then God can deal with them and walk them, this staement is very true. 

However, did you know that Africa Bumbada invented Hip-Hop? 

www.zulunation.com

KRS-One (who is apart of Zulu-Nation) speaks of putting your faith in yourself and not the holy scriptures and that you are Jesus Christ, and did you know that Hezekiah Walker and the love fellowship family are singing the background to that very song?

It was not until I did my own research and found out these things for myself, and made me think what am I really listening too?  Is this edifying God?  If you view the link it clearly is not.

What amazes me how the Hip-Hop artist get an award and thank God for it! How is this possible when majority of them sing about filth, murder, rape (yes I have heard this in a song), etc.  It behoves me.  Personally I don't find anything beautiful about rap. It encourages violence, drugs and gangs.  I know that it may seem that it is being condemned but, would you agree that teenagers should listen to this type of music?  I'm just asking.*


----------



## Cinnabuns (Apr 7, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> G. Craig Lewis exposes the history of hip-hop, and clearly, it's not for the faint at heart. There are a lot of things I NEVER knew about it's history, and then I started paying close attention to some of the lyrics of the music. . . Well, for me, I choose to guard my spirit. Music is one of the most powerful forces on earth, with the ability to influence people without them ever being aware of what is happening. When I think of how certain music by different artist have the ability to put me in different moods, I couldn't ignore it any longer. Neither could my boys, and for the enlightment, I'm eternally grateful to God.



*Oh yes ITA, it was very inspirational and I have shown this movie to allot of my Christian friends who LOVE Hip-Hop, Rap, etc.  I was thankful to God for bringing this into my life. *


----------



## redeemed516 (Apr 7, 2005)

As we all know...Satan is the ruler of the airways (tv, radio, etc) We as Christians can't completly exclude ourselves from what is going on in the world. We have to walk circumspectly and be knowledgable of the times that we live in. As far as hip hop music (and other secular forms of entertainment-ie movies that may not convey a Godly message) we have to be able to listen/watch with a Christian ear/eyes. We don't have to be affected by what we hear and see. If you like rap music for the beat or because you might actually like what a particular song is saying if it is positive/uplifting then I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that. I personally like some of it. I can't take all that sex, smack ya momma with a skillet, beat ya girl up, i smoke i drank, sex me till we die type stuff. But i do believe that you shouldn't shun/disregard the entire genre just because you may not agree with what a few of it's representatives are saying. There is that side of Hip Hop that DMX, Tupac, Biggie, Murder Inc. (the INC.), death row and other s represent but the flip side is Hip Hop gospel and CRUNK gospel rap are slowly growing with the Christian youth because they can better relate to it than maybe someone older could.


----------



## Enchantmt (Apr 7, 2005)

I'm not questioning the lyrics. I agree they are horrible, and personally I think they lead to violence against women and a mindset that is damaging. However we didnt really have this problem until things like gansta rap came on the scene, not that the lyrics were spotless before but they were no worse  than any other song. And even when gansta rap first came out, it was more or less just telling the story of what was going on. Putting their stories to music didnt change what was a reality in some of the lives of these rappers. Had their living conditions been different their experiences and what they would have known to write about would have been different. Now it has changed to glorify violence and drugs and I agree no one needs to be bombarded with those types of messages. As I said I limit my own exposure because of it and I know a child doesnt have the ability to monitor their thoughts or reactions to a song to be able to judge or address how it affects their behavior and they internalize and act out those messages. Not good at all. 

 Most of the stuff I agree shouldnt be allowed in homes, Christian or otherwise. I just dont think you should condemn a whole _entire genre _because parts of it are bad. There are raunchy country songs too, does that make country christian songs bad? There is porn or tv...is tv bad or the programming on it? Does that make the christian shows I watch a bad thing? I just think we need to seperate the content from the genre.  It was shunned by mainstream in the beginning but now it influences everything. Clothing, Tv, Food. Everything. Find someone who markets something w/o a hip hop tune now days. Hip hop is very powerful and I think folx are afraid of that power. Instead of running from its influence and power we should use it and make it work for us. I think that children and artists should be encouraged to listen to and write lyrics that are postive and uplifting with out the cursing. Change the lyrics and the message and all kinds of positive things can happen.


----------



## Sweet C (Apr 7, 2005)

I believe that as a Christian you should be very mindful about what you listen to in general, be it tv, movies, music, etc. I try to be more watchful about these areas, but I know this can be hard at times.    I threw away most of my secular CDs when I fully gave my life to Christ, and threw away the rest later on after talking to the Lord about this.  See, I had no problem with the rap and hip hop, b/c most of that which I owned was very degrading, lots of cussing, etc., but I had a HARD time with the Neo-Soul (i.e. Jill Scott, India Arie, etc.).  Then as I started to do more research, I realized that the God these people be professing in songs, is not the same God that i believe in.  Jill Scott has spit straight bars from the Koran, and India Arie is on some Buddhist/agnostic sort of vibe in her CDs.  And both of them glorify sexual relationships outside of marriage.   I don't mind certain songs that they sing like India Arie's "I'm Not the Average Girl" or even Nas "I Know I Can," because I feel like these songs are very uplifting and not degrading.  But the rest of their CDs do have questionable content, so I can't continously listen to the CD and then try to figure out why all of a sudden I have sudden urges in the flesh or I am in certain moves. 

For those who do like that sound though, I recommend Lisa McClendon's "soul music" (she is off the chain). 

I have been to the website before and I agree with him on a lot of stuff, but I don't agree with him with his stand on not using hip-hop as a means for ministering the gospel.  He states that the reason you can't use hip hop culture is b/c its origins is evil.  Well, I thought that music originated from God and Satan doesn't create, but he just perverts.  Didn't Paul use philosophy in Acts 17 to convert the Athens to believers in Christ?  I see where he is coming from, b/c some of the Christian rap artists that have made it somewhat mainstream have been in essense hurt by the church or have been pushed out too soon and they weren't ready to handle ministry.  But there have been others that preach the gospel, on fie for God, rap, live the lifestyle, and are under the covering of a church home.  From reading the article on the site pertaining to this, I am not sure if he is against using the term hip hop, or just the art form of rap itself, or the culture in which it has evolved to present day.


----------



## Vet27 (Apr 7, 2005)

I did'nt know that's what she(jill scott) was talking about when she said god in her songs. I do think that indie arie has some good songs like brown skin & jill scott's living my life like it's golden. They are positive songs. But maybe I should go home and listen a little more carefully to what they are saying.

Vet27


----------



## Sweet C (Apr 7, 2005)

Here is the excerpts from a Jill Scott listed from the exministries website:


Jill Scott 


From the album "Who is Jill Scott" 


A long walk

let’s take a long walk around the park after dark
find a spot for us to spark
conversation, verbal elation, stimulation
share our situations, temptations, education, relaxations
*elevations, maybe we can talk about surah 31:18*

*your background it ain’t squeaky clean sh_t*
sometimes we all got to swim upstream
*you ain’t no saint, we all are sinners*
*but you put your good foot down and make your soul a winner*
I respect that, man you’re so phat
and you’re all that, plus supreme
then you’re humble man i’m numb
yo with feeling, I can feel everything that you bring

exclusively - from the album who is jill scott

mmm, this morning my man exclusively introduced me
to some good extra lovin'
he was lickin' and suckin' on everything
just the way he should
this morning’s extra lovin' was good
we laid there sweaty, sex funky, happy as we want to be
lovin' exclusively, my man and me
all night all morning
so our stomachs were growlin' hungrily
so I jumped up and rushed to the store
in hopes of coming back and getting a little more of
this morning’s good extra lovin '

excerpt from an interview:

Are you still a practicing Jehovah's Witness? When I was 12, I decided that I wanted to see what else was out there. I believe that all of the religions have merit and that it's man that messes it up. I am more spiritual than religious. Sometimes I feel like a Buddhist and I need to chant; sometimes a Baptist and I need to holler and shout and sometimes I need to be a Catholic and need to purge my sins and confess. It just depends on where I am. But, I know I need to get there.


Your mother gave you freedom at 12-years old to explore your spirituality? Not necessarily. I took it on my own. It was my grandmother who wanted me to remain a Witness. 

Now u have to ask your self is this music really positive, or is it in a sly way promoting double mindness, fornication, and idolatry. Positive to me is that is doesn't formally preach the gospel, but yet it doesn't lead to compromising God's word, but her lyrics and this interview excerpt suggest otherwise.


----------



## Vet27 (Apr 8, 2005)

In positive I meant I would rather my younger couisn sing about loving her brown skin than being bootyluicus.(sp?) That's all I am saying. When I have my couisn's in the car I no longer allow them to listen to rap in my car. They know all the songs, I can't stand to here a 3 or 5 yr old sing about sex. But can't tie there own shoe. But they hear it eveywhere else, @ there friends, in someone's car, maybe on a walkman. On Jill Scott's lastest cd, she talks about talking to young women, and letting them know that they are more than just a piece of meat, they can do anything they put there minds too. Not everyone has a role model in there home, in there neighborhood, and certainly not on t.v. I did lokk at his website, he has some good things to say & I see he will be in my area in June. But, I am not sure that creating a anti-hip hop youth group is the answer. 

Just a comment.

Vet27


----------



## Cinnabuns (Apr 8, 2005)

blaxalrose said:
			
		

> People can say what they want to, but that song "Jesus Walks" by Kanye West probably touched more people last year than any other gospel song.



*Hmmm...maybe it did touch people, but I just don't agree with all the cursing in it.  I feel that is possible to sing gospel without using those words. IMHO*


----------



## dreamgurl (Apr 8, 2005)

Hmmm...I don't buy Hip-Hop, Rap or even R&B music. I buy mostly Christian, Inspirational, and Instrumental music. 

BUT...I have watched a few videos and listened to a few songs on the radio in passing.

This was something I was fighting within myself about awhile ago because I felt I was disobeying God by watching some of these music videos and listening to the music. After much communication with God and giving some time to listen to Him and His Word. It was revealed to me that we are to live in this world, but not be of the world. With that being said, the worldly people are the ones who need to be reached, but how can I effectively witness/minister to them without knowing a little something about their world? Let's not forget there are worldly people sitting right there in the pews.

Another example of God's confirmation...I used to not want to watch the news because of all the violence I would hear about around the world, but one night as I was praying for my son before his bedtime, I felt the Holy Spirit move within me and started praying for a situation in another country I knew absolutely nothing about. At first, I didn't know what to think and just didn't make too much of it, until I sat down at my computer to see in the corner where the news is announced and noticed that the very situation I was praying for had a direct link to it and was considered one of the top stories. That was God's way of letting me know that I cannot isolate myself from the things happening in the world we live in and to open my eyes and ears and take note, so I can know how to pray for people and situations.

Let me just say this, if I may, there are some "Christian" artists I might be careful of listening to, because not all people who profess at being Christian are such. Some are just there making what sounds like good music because they are talented. But there is a difference in someone being talented and annointed. Some of the music in the Church is a bit questionable to me which is why it is so important to study God's Word for thyself. Discernment is key as well, even if you don't think you have it, I would certainly start praying for it. Trust me it is a real eye-opener.


----------



## Enchantmt (Apr 8, 2005)

dreamgurl said:
			
		

> Hmmm...I don't buy Hip-Hop, Rap or even R&B music. I buy mostly Christian, Inspirational, and Instrumental music.
> 
> BUT...I have watched a few videos and listened to a few songs on the radio in passing.
> 
> ...




You make a very good points. Alot of people,especially younger people, see Christianty as just a list of rules and regulations of what you CANT do. They don't know about Gods grace, they arent being told about it.They dont know the joy of God, His peace, His message of deliverance because all they hear about is fire and brimstone.  That has its place, and many folx need to hear about it, but a lot of people feel that Christians are sitting in judgement of them, (sadly often with good reason) talking down to them, and just out to make them over into something with no joy, and none of the facets of life that make it fun. They run into people who consider drinking Koolaid a sin because its not natural and violated the temple of God. They are told that is is unGodly to care for yourself and want to be attractive, when caring for yourself and presenting yourself is what is expected of us, and there is nothing wrong unless you get on the side of vanity. Folx come to church from the world, dressed like the world, seeking God, and the people of God will look at them like they have two heads, turn up their noses, and act like they were always on top and that God didnt bring them to a better place.Get folx saved and then deal with stuff like that. SMH. 

I agree 100% on the news. Even when I'm driving and the traffic report comes on about an accident I say a prayer for those involved. And I normally say a silent prayer before I get on the road for myself and others. 

You are absolutely correct about the music as well. Unfortunately you have some folx who have realized that you can commercialize on gospel music/especially hiphop. The lyrics dont do much and the dancing is not appropriate. Vultures are trying to pervert this as well, and I have often read about Christian artists complaining of record companies trying to get them to stick to a formula instead of being led by God. Here in ohio we used to have a station that played christian hip hop early Sunday mornings. I dont know if they still do because my hours changed and I'm at work before the show starts now, but I can tell you this, I have heard songs that gave me chills they were so powerful. And it would drive me nuts because I would be on my way to work, they never announced the artist and I could never find out who it was. So to each their own, do what you are led to do, but I know that Christian hip hop has the power to positively affect the young people, because I know what little exposure I have had has done for me.


----------



## Blossssom (Apr 8, 2005)

Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> *Hmmm...maybe it did touch people, but I just don't agree with all the cursing in it.  I feel that is possible to sing gospel without using those words. IMHO*



A gospel song with CURSE words?  Oh God.  I've heard EVERYTHING!

These people have dropped to a whole new LOW!


----------



## Dutchess (Apr 8, 2005)

Look at it like this.    If you know what the scriptures say about being unclean and anything morally wrong, then wouldn't you want to give Hip-Hop music some serious thought.  Is there profanity in the lyrics?  Do the lyrics bring praise or honor to God?  Could you listen to that kind of music in your place and worship?  Do the lyrics promote Satan and his lies?  Do the lyrics glorify Satan or God?  You know that God's eyes see everything and of course his ears hear everything too, so could you be comfortable reading your Bible with Hip-Hop music playing in the background.  It's a contradiction.  The scriptures say that you cannot slave for two Masters.


----------



## Blossssom (Apr 8, 2005)

Dutchess said:
			
		

> Look at it like this.    If you know what the scriptures say about being unclean and anything morally wrong, then wouldn't you want to give Hip-Hop music some serious thought.  Is there profanity in the lyrics?  Do the lyrics bring praise or honor to God?  Could you listen to that kind of music in your place and worship?  Do the lyrics promote Satan and his lies?  Do the lyrics glorify Satan or God?  You know that God's eyes see everything and of course his ears hear everything too, so could you be comfortable reading your Bible with Hip-Hop music playing in the background.  It's a contradiction.  The scriptures say that you cannot slave for two Masters.



Thank you!  Nuff said!

And trust me, Kanye's gospel-curse song didn't touch anyone.  Not the way you would want it to.  How could it?

It's just another rap song with a funky beat; people like bumping, grinding and drinking to it, and this Negro has the nerve to use YOUR religion to promote this filth and increase his wealth!  It's a sacrilege!

If there is a hell, he and his ilk will definitely burn in it!

I agree with your post 500%, Dutchess!  Kanye and his kind are another type of anti-christ.


----------



## Dutchess (Apr 8, 2005)

Satan know how to use people, it's his specialty, his craftiness is what makes people think or reason that it's okay to listen to music that does not bring honor to God.  Is that how you show respect for the ransom sacrifice that Jesus made for you?  We should be living our lives to reflect that we are thankful for Jesus coming to the earth to die for sinners.  Satan uses the internet, music, pornography videos, pornographic magazines, television, movies in ways to turn people away from serving God.  Satan owns much of the entertainment industry.  Why do you think rappers always thank him for their awards.  They are not thanking the Almighty Creator because the Creator doesn't give people the lyrics to write and sing about filth.  God is clean and pure and holy and anything that isn't doesn't come from him.  This is why we have to be on the alert constantly and ask ourselves that if God were physically right by our sides would we do certain things.


----------



## dreamgurl (Apr 8, 2005)

redeemed516 said:
			
		

> As we all know...Satan is the ruler of the airways (tv, radio, etc) We as Christians can't completely exclude ourselves from what is going on in the world. We have to walk circumspectly and be knowledgable of the times that we live in. As far as hip hop music (and other secular forms of entertainment-ie movies that may not convey a Godly message) we have to be able to listen/watch with a Christian ear/eyes. We don't have to be affected by what we hear and see.


 
I AGREE TOTALLY.

My thing is this, I have a son and daughter who, although attend a Christian school does not mean that kids whose parents allow them to listen to such music won't come to school and try to cloud my children's minds. The difference is that I have a certain level of understading that my kids and other kids until educated do not, so I have to know what is out there in order to educate my kids and maybe even someone else's for that matter. It is simply not enough to say to kids these days, that you shouldn't listen to that stuff because it is bad, you have to educate them on why it is bad, but how can you, if you don't give it a listen yourself. Some of this music is subliminal and so are cartoons and movies and stuff that comes on on the Disney channel. 

When I was struggling with whether or not I should listen to secular music, I didn't pay any attention to the words at all in some of these songs just the beats, and since I listened to them on the radio and videos, they would not have the profanity in them. But when, God let me know that the followers are the very people who needed Him, there was no way I could approach one of them and start talking about Jesus and expect them to listen without letting them know I knew a little something about the world they were a part of. 

For example Kanye's song Jesus Walks did nothing for me spiritually and I was aware there were curse words in that song because I heard the bleeps. Now my son, who is almost an early teen, listened to the beat first, thought it was hot, and then started paying attention to the lyrics and thought at first listen, it was okay, until I had to sit and listen with him and let him know exactly what was so hot about it. But how could I let him know what was what if I had not given it a good listen myself.


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Apr 8, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> As I started growing in my Christian walk, I started to find a problem with hip-hop and rap music myself.  It just stoppped sounding good to me.  I would start paying more attention to what they're actually saying than the music and beat played behind it.  It's so sickening some of the things these artists sing about...sex, drugs, violence, being in jail, being a pimp/player, smoking, drinking, profanity...if it's bad, it's in that song!  And it's sad that it's so appealing to so many people...especially our youth.



I agree that some songs that used to be my JAM a few  years ago (yes, I said jam!) are borderline sickening to me.  That being said, I am mentally strong enough to know that the things I hear in song do not represent my reality, and my beliefs.  I like to dance and hip hop provides a good beat.  

I think kids today are much more vulnerable to do the things they hear in songs because they don't know how to differentiate between the music world and reality.


----------



## Koffie (Apr 8, 2005)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> I agree that some songs that used to be my JAM a few  years ago (yes, I said jam!) are borderline sickening to me.  That being said, I am mentally strong enough to know that the things I hear in song do not represent my reality, and my beliefs.  I like to dance and hip hop provides a good beat.
> 
> I think kids today are much more vulnerable to do the things they hear in songs because they don't know how to differentiate between the music world and reality.



Piggy backing on you and Poohbear, I USED to be a big R-Kelly fan, but now, when ever I am driving and that song "Kitchen" comes on, I turn the station.


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Apr 8, 2005)

And do y'all feel that some songs may not be appropriate for a single Christian woman but are okay when she and her hubby are getting their groove on?


----------



## Koffie (Apr 8, 2005)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> And do y'all feel that some songs may not be appropriate for a single Christian woman but are okay when she and her hubby are getting their groove on?



Well I have a good friend who couldn't listen to the "Pied Piper" (R-Kelly) while she was engaged/single because she said it "did something" to her, but I do remember her mentioning that when she got married she would be enjoying that with her husband, (the keys in the ignition and what not)

She's married now, so I guess she gets to enjoy the "Kitchen" song.


----------



## Enchantmt (Apr 8, 2005)

Is Kanye considered a Christian artist? I thought he was considered secular. Not the faith he professes, the music category. Just asking.


----------



## stcsweet (Apr 8, 2005)

Thank you so much for this thread! 

This is really ministering to me. About 98% of the time, I listen to Christian music (christian reggae, modern gospel, & etc.). Now, the other 2% (referred to as secular music) is me flipping through radio channels, listening to my India, Jill Scott, or other non-Christian reggae. I DO notice my mood when I'm listening to the secular music. The words do have an affect on you, as I have gradually started paying more attention to this. Wow! Satan has his ways. The Holy Spirit convicts me as I'm listening, because either:
a) I don't listen long, or
b) I get this deep unsatisfied, grouchy, dampened angry feeling

After reading this thread, I see no reason why I need to listen to any more secular music. It's unnecessary.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 9, 2005)

stcsweet said:
			
		

> Thank you so much for this thread!
> 
> This is really ministering to me. About 98% of the time, I listen to Christian music (christian reggae, modern gospel, & etc.). Now, the other 2% (referred to as secular music) is me flipping through radio channels, listening to my India, Jill Scott, or other non-Christian reggae. I DO notice my mood when I'm listening to the secular music. The words do have an affect on you, as I have gradually started paying more attention to this. Wow! Satan has his ways. The Holy Spirit convicts me as I'm listening, because either:
> a) I don't listen long, or
> ...


Same here! I realized this after reading this thread too.

Also the Bible says "Make a joyful noise UNTO THE LORD."  Yes, music is okay but I don't think rap, hip-hop, and some other music out there makes a joyful noise unto the Lord. 

And you know what?  Listening to gospel and Christian music can be so uplifting to the spirit. I notice when I listen to secular music, you think about so many bad things, even though you're not going to act on those thoughts.  It's just not good for a Christian spirit.

Thanks for starting this thread!


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 9, 2005)

Koffie said:
			
		

> Piggy backing on you and Poohbear, I USED to be a big R-Kelly fan, but now, when ever I am driving and that song "Kitchen" comes on, I turn the station.


Yeah, I used to be a big fan of Avant but all he talks about is sexual stuff. 
Oh yeah! Remember how I said I was gonna listen to the gospel channel on my radio? Well I have a CD player that was put in my truck and it doesnt have the AM option, it only has FM. I can't find any Christian music on FM.   You know how AM has some gospel channels.  I'm gonna just go buy some gospel CDs of some gospel singers I like to listen to.


----------



## Nyambura (Apr 9, 2005)

I've truly enjoyed reading this thread. What do you ladies think about artists like Lauryn Hill? Is the life of the artist as important, when deciding whether to listen to her/him, as the lyrics in the song/album you might be listening to? 

Pooh and stcsweet, I've experienced similar feelings listening to the radio - a lot of it is just bad musically, regardless of content, anyway. As for "Jesus Walks," I had no idea there was swearing in it!


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 9, 2005)

Dutchess said:
			
		

> Look at it like this. If you know what the scriptures say about being unclean and anything morally wrong, then wouldn't you want to give Hip-Hop music some serious thought. Is there profanity in the lyrics? Do the lyrics bring praise or honor to God? Could you listen to that kind of music in your place and worship? Do the lyrics promote Satan and his lies? Do the lyrics glorify Satan or God? You know that God's eyes see everything and of course his ears hear everything too, so could you be comfortable reading your Bible with Hip-Hop music playing in the background. It's a contradiction. The scriptures say that you cannot slave for two Masters.


Very good questions for thought!


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Apr 9, 2005)

Nyambura said:
			
		

> I've truly enjoyed reading this thread. What do you ladies think about artists like Lauryn Hill? Is the life of the artist as important, when deciding whether to listen to her/him, as the lyrics in the song/album you might be listening to?
> 
> Pooh and stcsweet, I've experienced similar feelings listening to the radio - a lot of it is just bad musically, regardless of content, anyway. As for "Jesus Walks," I had no idea there was swearing in it!



I love Lauryn 
She's a true artist.  

I don't think the life of the artist is necessarily important. . .cause that may not have anything to do with the song.  I think it would be hard to weed out music based on an artist's life 'cause do we ever really know what's going on with a celebrity?


----------



## Honeyhips (Apr 9, 2005)

For me a lot of music is another form of entertainment.  I love my old school r&B, jazz, and people like maroon 5.  But I can't listen to a lot of hip hop anymore. Nice beat or not.  I'm tired of the lyrics, and half of them really aren't talking about anything of value. Do I want to spend time listening to 50cents ideologies or learn more about God?  I am also starting to notice that I can listen to music but after awhile I need to drown myself in praise and worship to feed my soul.


----------



## Honeyhips (Apr 9, 2005)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> And do y'all feel that some songs may not be appropriate for a single Christian woman but are okay when she and her hubby are getting their groove on?


Yes. Most definitely.


----------



## Honeyhips (Apr 9, 2005)

Nyambura said:
			
		

> I've truly enjoyed reading this thread. What do you ladies think about artists like Lauryn Hill? Is the life of the artist as important, when deciding whether to listen to her/him, as the lyrics in the song/album you might be listening to?


No I don't think so. A lot of the Christian artist may not be truly living for God.  If people can sin while going to Church 3-5x a week, they can do it while creating his music.


----------



## sbg4evr (Apr 9, 2005)

This thread gives me a lot to think about.  I like the beats of hip hop but I do not listen frequently due to the nature of the lyrics.   I love Neosoul and Jazz but the lyrics conflict with my belief of  how my life should be lived.  I am shocked that I never realized what Jill Scott was saying.  I love her music but now I have second thoughts.   Sure enough my music selection in the future is changing.


----------



## sugaplum (Apr 11, 2005)

stcsweet said:
			
		

> Thank you so much for this thread!
> 
> This is really ministering to me. About 98% of the time, I listen to Christian music (christian reggae, modern gospel, & etc.). Now, the other 2% (referred to as secular music) is me flipping through radio channels, listening to my India, Jill Scott, or other non-Christian reggae. I DO notice my mood when I'm listening to the secular music. The words do have an affect on you, as I have gradually started paying more attention to this. Wow! Satan has his ways. The Holy Spirit convicts me as I'm listening, because either:
> a) I don't listen long, or
> ...



You hit it right on the nose, stcsweet. 

Cinna brought the "Truth Behind Hip Hop & R&B Music" w/ Rev. G. Craig Lewis over to my place over the weekend, and it has opened my eyes.   I never knew the truth behind the Jay-Z's "HOVA" song and I've been sining that song for God knows how long. 

I've thrown away ALL my rap, hip hop, etc. cd's and have replaced them with gospel music.  I never knew there were so many gospel artists out there.  

But after watching Rev. G. Criag Lewis's sermon, I've realized that what I listen to had a GREAT impact on what comes from out of my mouth.  In other words "TRASH IN, TRASH OUT"


----------



## SoniT (Apr 11, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> You hit it right on the nose, stcsweet.
> 
> Cinna brought the "Truth Behind Hip Hop & R&B Music" w/ Rev. G. Craig Lewis over to my place over the weekend, and it has opened my eyes.   I never knew the truth behind the Jay-Z's "HOVA" song and I've been sining that song for God knows how long.
> 
> ...



Where can I get "Truth Behind Hip Hop and R&B Music"? Is it sold in stores? What is the truth behind Jay-Z's "HOVA" song? I love Jay-Z's music and I'm curious. I am a Christian but I admit that I'm struggling in my walk. I still listen to secular music. I'm growing but I still have a lot of work to do.


----------



## Cinnabuns (Apr 11, 2005)

blaxalrose said:
			
		

> Kanye's song wasn't a gospel song....of course...my point is that I don't think everything is a profane as some folks make it out to be. I think folks like C. Delores Tucker and Rev. Calvin Butts do more than drive folks to the music they think is evil than to keep them away from them.  I don't know, I love hip-hop and I don't see anything evil with the artist I love.  I love me some Common, Talib, Mos Def, TI, Jay-Z.  The artists that I grew up listening to, I think were awesome folks. I guess everyone has a different view. There are some folks who hate Aretha Franklin , Bobby Womack, and Sam Cooke because they started out singing gospel. There are folks who hate Kirk Franklin and Vicki Winans for being too contemporary. I do think sometimes church folks are a little too self-righteous about things, yes I do think the violence and degredation of women in hip-hop is sad. That's in all music and aspects of society. But I don't think leaving the music is going to change it. That's why I support artist who are about something different in the game. I think there are people like Common, Mos, Talib, Lauren, Wyclef who have things to say.  It seems like if an artist isn't a Gospel artist, some would think they cannot love God. I don't think that's true.



*
I see you point.

But for me leaving this kind of music has given me a greater since of what is going into MY Holy Temple.  And I agree that leaving the music will not change it, but I don't have to glorify it either.  

You see, everytime I buy this music I'm glorifying this lifestyle, then I think to myself that car, bling-bling that they wear and the half-naked women in the videos, I paid for.

The Bible says in 1 Thess 5:22 to avoid every kind of evil. 

I just find it interesting how Jay-Z is calling himself Jayhova now- also known as Jahova "God."  And I did not realize this but when I was raising my hands and shouting to this song I was worshipping him as Jayhova. He is flat-out calling himself God and that just does not sit right with me.  But to each their own.*


----------



## Cinnabuns (Apr 11, 2005)

SoniT said:
			
		

> Where can I get "Truth Behind Hip Hop and R&B Music"? Is it sold in stores? What is the truth behind Jay-Z's "HOVA" song? I love Jay-Z's music and I'm curious. I am a Christian but I admit that I'm struggling in my walk. I still listen to secular music. I'm growing but I still have a lot of work to do.



*Hello SoniT 

I answered your question on my previous post, and to get the DVD you can go to www.exministries.com

The DVD that we are talking about is part one.  He will be coming to my church this weekend and I can get a copy for you if you would like. 

PM me *


----------



## SoniT (Apr 11, 2005)

Thanks! I'll check out the website.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 11, 2005)

Hey ladies, what do you all think of old school music or oldies????


----------



## Koffie (Apr 11, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Hey ladies, what do you all think of old school music or oldies????



I hope no one says anything about this, 'cause I really like it.

But the funny thing is that I was listening to Chaka Khan's "Sweet Thang"
 and I turned it 'cause something in me felt that the lyrics were more suitable for married folks.


----------



## sugaplum (Apr 11, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Hey ladies, what do you all think of old school music or oldies????



The Rev. G. Craig Lewis mentioned the same thing on the dvd I saw and I agree 100%.   I threw all of that ol'school and back-in-theday music out becuase it still spoke about sex, lust, pain, and things like that.  

What was also interesting about what he spoke on was the writing behind the songs.  For example, the song "Thank you for letting me be myself" (I'm sorry I don't know the song title), but the lead gutarist of the group testified and said  the band shot heroine for days to come up with the lyrics for the song!!  

Also George Clinton wrote the lyrics to "Stomp" which is why it is played in the clubs. 

It just a matter of doing the research on what you listen too.  And it's more then just the beats...you can put beats on a gospel song and it will be 100 times better then beats on a secular album.


----------



## Cinnabuns (Apr 11, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Hey ladies, what do you all think of old school music or oldies????



*You ask such good questions Poohbear.  I love them

As for me with the oldies I had quite a few of them but I got rid of them because they did not edify Christianity.  For me it depends on who they are singing too. *


----------



## Koffie (Apr 11, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> The Rev. G. Craig Lewis mentioned the same thing on the dvd I saw and I agree 100%.   I threw all of that ol'school and back-in-theday music out becuase it still spoke about sex, lust, pain, and things like that.
> 
> What was also interesting about what he spoke on was the writing behind the songs.  For example, the song "Thank you for letting me be myself" (I'm sorry I don't know the song title), but the lead gutarist of the group testified and said  the band shot heroine for days to come up with the lyrics for the song!!
> 
> ...



There it is.......

Gotta stop with that('ol school music) too.


----------



## Koffie (Apr 11, 2005)

Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> *You ask such good questions Poohbear.  I love them
> 
> As for me with the oldies I had quite a few of them but I got rid of them because they did not edify Christianity.  For me it depends on who they are singing too. *




this is true.

i.e.

Mrs. Jones= Adultery

Woman to Woman = I'm gon' fight you over a man that I'm shackin up with. She never said she was married to him  (I never liked this song) 

Lovin you is wrong, I don't wanna be right= Adultery

I be STROKIN= fornication


----------



## InsertCleverNameHere (Apr 11, 2005)

Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I just find it interesting how Jay-Z is calling himself Jayhova now- also known as Jahova "God."  And I did not realize this but when I was raising my hands and shouting to this song I was worshipping him as Jayhova. He is flat-out calling himself God and that just does not sit right with me.  But to each their own.*



Not arguing either which way but Jay-Z is supposedly nicknamed Jay-hova not because he is saying he is God but hat he is the God MC or God of rap. 

Not saying thats right or wrong


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 11, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> The Rev. G. Craig Lewis mentioned the same thing on the dvd I saw and I agree 100%.  I threw all of that ol'school and back-in-theday music out becuase it still spoke about sex, lust, pain, and things like that.
> 
> What was also interesting about what he spoke on was the writing behind the songs. For example, the song "Thank you for letting me be myself" (I'm sorry I don't know the song title), but the lead gutarist of the group testified and said the band shot heroine for days to come up with the lyrics for the song!!
> 
> ...


Well, I'm talking about old school songs and oldies that don't talk about sexual, painful, loneliness, etc. I can't think of any songs right off the bat but songs that are similar to Fresh Prince of Bel Air's theme song.  Those songs that sound kinda like nursery rhymes or something...I dunno how to explain it!


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 11, 2005)

Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> *You ask such good questions Poohbear.  I love them*
> 
> *As for me with the oldies I had quite a few of them but I got rid of them because they did not edify Christianity.  For me it depends on who they are singing too. *


 
Yes, there are some old school songs and oldies that do not give God glory. 

I mentioned nursery rhymes in my previous post... what about them?  What are they considered? Should children be listening to "Puff the Magic Dragon" "Three Blind Mice" "Mary Had A Little Lamb" "London Bridges Falling Down"?  

If we want to be COMPLETELY non-secular, should we let children listen to little Christian songs like "Father Abraham" "The B-I-B-L-E" "Ezekiel Saw The Wheel" "Jesus Loves Me" etc.???


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 11, 2005)

Koffie said:
			
		

> this is true.
> 
> i.e.
> 
> ...


Great examples.


----------



## EbonyEyes (Apr 12, 2005)

My roommate had mentioned a DVD where this reverend talks about subliminal messages in hip-hop and R&B.  He was talking about witches chanting in songs.  He even mentioned how Color Me Badd's "I wanna sex you up" made quite a few girls lose their virginity.

Is this the same DVD?

-Ebony


----------



## EbonyEyes (Apr 12, 2005)

I was praying about music and its influence on Christians.

And I was thinking about how church-going folk had big time problems with Ray Charles and other innovators of R&B soul.  They termed the music "sin music" or "devil music."  I used to say, "Oh, they were just being judgmental!" and not think anymore of it.

But now I have to wonder though.  Was there truth in what they were saying? 

I am aware of how certain hip-hop or R&B songs affect me.  

And I can see how hip-hop influences my Christian boyfriend.  He is a loving, sweet spirit.  But when we would see each other, I would know when he had been listening to rap because of the way he would act towards me.  It was a subtle change but it was noticable and made me uncomfortable

I really like this topic!  Keep the thoughts and ideas coming....

Ebony


----------



## Honeyhips (Apr 12, 2005)

EbonyEyes said:
			
		

> . He even mentioned how Color Me Badd's "I wanna sex you up" made quite a few girls lose their virginity.
> 
> Is this the same DVD?
> 
> -Ebony


 Really? My girlfriend told me about the ex dvd a few months ago, January actually, and I've been wanting to check this out. Now I'm really going to try and look into it.


----------



## pebbles (Apr 12, 2005)

EbonyEyes said:
			
		

> My roommate had mentioned a DVD where this reverend talks about subliminal messages in hip-hop and R&B.  He was talking about witches chanting in songs.  He even mentioned how Color Me Badd's "I wanna sex you up" made quite a few girls lose their virginity.
> 
> Is this the same DVD?
> 
> -Ebony



Yes, that's the one. He actually has two DVD's out now.


----------



## sugaplum (Apr 12, 2005)

EbonyEyes said:
			
		

> My roommate had mentioned a DVD where this reverend talks about subliminal messages in hip-hop and R&B.  He was talking about witches chanting in songs.  He even mentioned how Color Me Badd's "I wanna sex you up" made quite a few girls lose their virginity.
> 
> Is this the same DVD?
> 
> -Ebony


Yes Ebony this is the same DVD.  This is part one of the series (there is a part 2).


SPOILER*SPOLIER*SPOILER*SPOLIER*SPOILER*SPOLIER*SPOILER*SPOLIER*
_________________________________________________________________

He spoke on this becuase Kevin (the black guy with the braids in the group Color Me Bad) went to one of Rev. G. Craig's sermons on "The Truth Behind Hip Hop Music" and gave his very life to Christ that night.  

Later come to find out he was dealing with "42" demons!!   Kevin's wife called Rev. Craig hysterically stating that her husband was dealing with demons and they were causing him to crash his car while he was driving.  Rev. Craig was given an assignment by God to go to Kevin's home and drive out the demons.  It took 3 days to rid Kevin's body of the demons...Rev. Craig was also told by God to write down 3 of the demons names.  1 of them being "witchcraft".  This demon stated that they placed an incantation on the song "I Wanna Sex You Up" in the recording studio so that it would be a number 1 hit.  At that very moment, Kevin came too and confessed that the song "I Wanna Sex You Up" lead 100,000 girls to give up their virginity!! 

Kevin is now a saved and a minister spreading the Good News. 

This and soooo much more is on the DVD.  I've seen it twice already and I learn something new everytime I watch it.


----------



## Honeyhips (Apr 12, 2005)

I am really bothered about the sex you up song. I began having a problem with music after listening to behind the music specials on vh1 and watching how some of our favorites songs came out b/c of luck, someone being high, a mistake or some other very odd reasons. It pains me to know that they have also put spells on songs. It just reminds me that the devil ain't playing. 

Ok give us more spoilers ladies, I might leave music alone after this. By the way how did they come up with the number of girls wo lost their virginity to the song? Is there a survey out there?  



> Kevin is now a saved and a minister spreading the Good News.


 Good for him, but what about those 100,000 of girls.


----------



## sugaplum (Apr 12, 2005)

Hello HoneyHips, 

I forgot how Kevin (Color Me Bad member) came up with the number of girls losing their virginity, but I will find out when I see the DVD again. 

SPOLIER*SPOLIER*SPOLIER*SPOLIER*SPOLIER*SPOLIER*SPOLIER*SPOLIER*SPOLIER*

There was a part on the DVD where Rev. G. Craig Lewis spoke on DMX (which means Dark Man X) and the cover of his CD "Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Blood" where he's covered in blood (like Jesus).  But was even more cryptic was on the cover of the album the "M" in DMX is over his head like devils horns!! 

Check it out (And you can click on his cd to view a bigger picture.): 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-6978081-4759047?v=glance&s=music&n=507846

I never knew this.  Rev. G. Craig Lewis also said that DMX has a song on the album with Marylin Manson!! Not sure if anyone has ever heard this song or not, but the background is eerie.  As a matter of fact, Rev. Lewis said that he has a recording studio and this type of musical background could not have been created!!


----------



## JenJen2721 (Apr 12, 2005)

That's deep, Sugaplum.  Speaking of blood on the cover...Lenny Kravitz' latest CD bothers me because of the same reason and I have stopped listening to Lenny.  He used to be one of my favs. 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-7054904-2587359?v=glance&s=music&n=507846


----------



## Honeyhips (Apr 12, 2005)

I remember that CD and song. My boyfriend at the time and his sister would not let me listen to it. They didn't want to influence the sweet Christian girl.  

What I wonder about stuff like, the DMX cover, and the Bone Thugs and Harmony cover (this guy talked about them too right?) is if they, the artist, know what they are doing, or is it all by coincidence? I also wonder how much is it speculation on the authors part, like the Jayzz reference. How does he know what Jay's intent was? Did he interview him?


----------



## sugaplum (Apr 12, 2005)

JenJen2721 said:
			
		

> That's deep, Sugaplum.  Speaking of blood on the cover...Lenny Kravitz' latest CD bothers me because of the same reason and I have stopped listening to Lenny.  He used to be one of my favs.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-7054904-2587359?v=glance&s=music&n=507846



WOW JenJen2721!!   After looking at that, and reading the title of the album "Baptism," is exactly why I stopped listening to secular music.  But before, he was my favorite artist.


----------



## Honeyhips (Apr 12, 2005)

Maybe he wanted it to look like he was being baptised in the blood of Christ. Or not that he was Christ. Or is the former the reason why it is wrong?  Help me out y'all, I can explain away things so easily, and later it turns out my initial thought was right.


----------



## sugaplum (Apr 12, 2005)

Opps posted twice.


----------



## sugaplum (Apr 12, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I remember that CD and song. My boyfriend at the time and his sister would not let me listen to it. They didn't want to influence the sweet Christian girl.
> 
> What I wonder about stuff like, the DMX cover, and the Bone Thugs and Harmony cover (this guy talked about them too right?) is if they, the artist, know what they are doing, or is it all by coincidence? I also wonder how much is it speculation on the authors part, like the Jayzz reference. How does he know what Jay's intent was? Did he interview him?



Hey HoneyHips, 

I see what you are saying, but this can't be a coincidence.  And even if it was why would they want to play with the devil like that.   Yes, the Rev. Lewis also spoke on Bone-Thugs-N-Harmony as well. That tripped me out as well.  Becuase I always found thier music to be very luring and if they are pulling you into the music.  They also smoke weed on stage and in the recording studio. 

No, I believe they know what they are doing becuase the devil is very crafty and Satan will find sneeky ways for people to worship him.  Now say there is someone out there that does not know who Jesus is and saw the cover of Lenny Kravitz cd or the DMX cd, the person will get a mixed up messege and might think wrongly of who Jesus Crhist is what he's done.


----------



## Honeyhips (Apr 12, 2005)

I can't imagine why anyone would want to play with the devil either which is why I was wondering if the M above DMX's head was done by "accident" by the person creating the cover, but the devil knew what he was doing, or they knew exactly what they were doing.  Which if they did, why, or did they not know how sneaky, and deep playing witht he devil can be. Like people who dabble in witchcraft, and pyhsics and they think it is harmless.  I know nothing happens by "coincidence"though. You are right, the devil knows exactly what he is doing. I guess I wonder if people know what the set up is, or that they are being set up. Ok, I'm rambling now.


----------



## Jewell (Apr 12, 2005)

I can't say what Christians should and shouldn't do, because I can't judge anyone else on their actions, but I'm a Christian, and I listen to hip-hop, pop, rap, country, gospel, rock n' roll, etc.  There are some songs that I don't listen to depending on the content, (and some artists I don't listen to period base on their appearance and known actions, e.g. Marilyn Manson, Korn, Kiss, etc) but I feel like I'm frontin' by listening only to gospel (that's not the only kind of music I like) because I'm saved, because I know I love me some New Edition and Earth, Wind and Fire.   Some music is obviously satanic, though.  Satan was in charge of music (so to say) in heaven, (making the radio/air waves a prime means of temptation and corruption) so you really have to filter what you listen to (and watch for that matter).


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 12, 2005)

Jewell said:
			
		

> I can't say what Christians should and shouldn't do, because I can't judge anyone else on their actions, but I'm a Christian, and I listen to hip-hop, pop, rap, country, gospel, rock n' roll, etc. There are some songs that I don't listen to depending on the content, (and some artists I don't listen to period base on their appearance and known actions, e.g. Marilyn Manson, Korn, Kiss, etc) but I feel like I'm frontin' by listening only to gospel (that's not the only kind of music I like) because I'm saved, because I know I love me some New Edition and Earth, Wind and Fire.  Some music is obviously satanic, though. Satan was in charge of music (so to say) in heaven, (making the radio/air waves a prime means of temptation and corruption) so you really have to filter what you listen to (and watch for that matter).


Does New Edition and Earth, Wind and Fire make you think about God and the things above?  Does it give him glory to listen to music that may seem not satanic like the sexual, hateful, music?  What degree or extreme does the music have to be to be considered satanic?  Someone may like to watch tv, but that could be taking away time from reading the Bible. Someone may like to listen to all types of music, but does that music uplift the name of Jesus?  Not putting you down at all...just questions for thought.


----------



## Jewell (Apr 12, 2005)

These are good questions for thought!  But, I have to say that I have been sick throughout my life and I don't have to listen to gospel to think about what God has done for me and how blessed I am to be alive today.  I don't watch much TV, so I always have time to read and study my Bible. Poohbearm you're very concientious, and I appreciate it.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 13, 2005)

Jewell said:
			
		

> These are good questions for thought! *But, I have to say that I have been sick throughout my life and I don't have to listen to gospel to think about what God has done for me and how blessed I am to be alive today*. I don't watch much TV, so I always have time to read and study my Bible. Poohbear, you're very concientious, and I appreciate it.


This is true!  I don't have to listen to it either to show that I'm a Christian or anything of that nature.  I think most of the ladies here do not think they must listen to gospel music just to think about God, it's just that gospel or Christian music would be an alternative to listening to hip-hop, rap, r&b, etc. I can think about God and how he's blessed me without gospel and Christian music so I know what you're saying!


----------



## sugaplum (Apr 13, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> This is true!  I don't have to listen to it either to show that I'm a Christian or anything of that nature.  I think most of the ladies here do not think they must listen to gospel music just to think about God, it's just that gospel or Christian music would be an alternative to listening to hip-hop, rap, r&b, etc. I can think about God and how he's blessed me without gospel and Christian music so I know what you're saying!



I agree Poohbear.   I chose to listen to gospel over hip hop music any day.  I go by this scripture:

Psalms 100:1 - A Psalm for the thank offering. Make a joyful noise to the LORD, all the lands!   

To me, according to this, we all should glorify Him through music and thanksgiving. The only problem for me with listening to hip hop & R&B music are the lyrics.  It's hard to glorify God while I'm listening to sex, drugs, etc.  There's a conflict there.  In the past I can recall being mad and listening to heavy rock or rap and it would get me all revved up.   Music influences us. Weither positive or negative.  It's like my Pastor says, "TRASH IN TRASH OUT"

Question: If you had something to say to the entire world, what would you say?


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 13, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> Question: If you had something to say to the entire world, what would you say?


*What would Jesus do? Would He listen to hiphop, rap, r&b, pop, rock, and alternative music?*

*But it would be difficult to ask the entire world that question because the ENTIRE world either doesn't believe in Jesus or doesn't place Jesus as high as we do...so hiphop, rap, r&b, etc would be fine with SOME of them.*


----------



## SoniT (Apr 13, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Does New Edition and Earth, Wind and Fire make you think about God and the things above?  Does it give him glory to listen to music that may seem not satanic like the sexual, hateful, music?  What degree or extreme does the music have to be to be considered satanic?  Someone may like to watch tv, but that could be taking away time from reading the Bible. Someone may like to listen to all types of music, but does that music uplift the name of Jesus?  Not putting you down at all...just questions for thought.



Earth Wind and Fire has songs that make me think about God. Songs like "Keep Your Head to the Sky," "Devotion," and "Open Our Eyes." These are very spiritual songs and EWF is a very spiritual group. I wish there were more groups like Earth Wind and Fire.


----------



## sugaplum (Apr 13, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> *What would Jesus do? Would He listen to hiphop, rap, r&b, pop, rock, and alternative music?*
> 
> *But it would be difficult to ask the entire world that question because the ENTIRE world either doesn't believe in Jesus or doesn't place Jesus as high as we do...so hiphop, rap, r&b, etc would be fine with SOME of them.*



*What would Jesus do? Would He listen to hiphop, rap, r&b, pop, rock, and alternative music?*

ITA!!   I know all about free will.  I should elaborate more on the question, if you were offered a recording contract to make music, what would you sing?  What would your song be about?  What would make your music/song different from the rest?

I'm sure that all these rappers and r& b artists thought this over but decided to do what the "world" wanted to hear.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 13, 2005)

SoniT said:
			
		

> Earth Wind and Fire has songs that make me think about God. Songs like "Keep Your Head to the Sky," "Devotion," and "Open Our Eyes." These are very spiritual songs and EWF is a very spiritual group. I wish there were more groups like Earth Wind and Fire.


Oh okay.  I've never heard Earth Wind and Fire songs.  When she mentioned New Edition, I thought EW&F was similar to them.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 13, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> *What would Jesus do? Would He listen to hiphop, rap, r&b, pop, rock, and alternative music?*
> 
> ITA!!  I know all about free will. I should elaborate more on the question, if you were offered a recording contract to make music, what would you sing? What would your song be about? What would make your music/song different from the rest?
> 
> I'm sure that all these rappers and r& b artists thought this over but decided to do what the "world" wanted to hear.


*I would sing whatever makes a joyful noise unto the Lord like you and I said in a previous post! *

*That's so true that many music artists that we have today chose what the world would most likely wanna hear and sing what would make them the most money.  You sometimes wonder if some of these artists thought about singing for the Lord after saying "First, giving an honor to God Who's the Head of my life" when they receive a music award or something... *


----------



## Cinnabuns (Apr 13, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> *I would sing whatever makes a joyful noise unto the Lord like you and I said in a previous post! *
> 
> *That's so true that many music artists that we have today chose what the world would most likely wanna hear and sing what would make them the most money.  You sometimes wonder if some of these artists thought about singing for the Lord after saying "First, giving an honor to God Who's the Head of my life" when they receive a music award or something... *



*That is so true Poohbear.   Life is so full of choices and Christians should choose the one that is most pleasing in the eyes of God. *


----------



## CatSuga (Apr 14, 2005)

Simple answer: Humans period should not listen to rap.


----------



## Honeyhips (Apr 14, 2005)

too funny. 


			
				CatSuga said:
			
		

> Simple answer: Humans period should not listen to rap.


----------



## Sweet C (Apr 14, 2005)

SoniT said:
			
		

> Earth Wind and Fire has songs that make me think about God. Songs like "Keep Your Head to the Sky," "Devotion," and "Open Our Eyes." These are very spiritual songs and EWF is a very spiritual group. I wish there were more groups like Earth Wind and Fire.


 
I know about some EWF.  I was in a black high school band, and that is all they play.  After the Love has Gone, Boogie Wonderland, September, etc.  They have some pretty decent music.  To me, they fall in that category with people like India Arie, where the music is pretty good and for the most part is not degrading, but doesn't mean you don't have to watch for it. You noted that they are very spiritual, well people of many different cultures and backgrounds are.  The question you must ask yourself, is whose spirit is leading them?  Being spiritual and being lead by the Holy Spirit is two different matters. Here is an excerpt from their website:

Serpentine Fire

[size=-1]"A[/size][size=-1]lthough we were basically jazz musicians, we played soul, funk, gospel, blues, jazz, rock and dance music which somehow ended up becoming pop," Maurice recalled. "I wanted to do something that hadn’t been done before.
[/size][size=-1][/size]
[size=-1]We were coming out of a decade of experimentation, mind expansion and Cosmic awareness and I wanted our music to convey messages of universal love and harmony without force-feeding listeners spiritual[/size][size=-1] [/size][size=-1]content."[/size]

[size=-1][/size] 
[size=-1]Now after examining their website which is filled with all sort of zodiac symbols and Egyptian references (not saying anythings wrong if you have to have an appreciation for African culture ), you have to really ask who are they serving?  The reason I brought this up is b/c it is these types of music (somewhat spiritual) is that which puts us as believers in a situation where our spirit is open to things that are not of God.  And I love me some EWF, India Arie, and a variety of other artists of different genres, who for the most part, have "positive music".  Listening to such artists occasionally, hey to each his own. But you must be extremely careful in what you are constantly listening to and meditating on.  For me, I see a lot of Christian artists who make wide genres of music whether it be rap, jaz, neo-soul, etc., who utilizes the creativity of music to give glory to God, who often don't get the support of believers b/c they are not as popular as other secular or Christian artists.  And to these is where I personally choose to support, not only b/c they need it, but b/c they are spreading the gospel, and by supporting them, I am helping to spread the gospel.  [/size][size=-1]


[/size]


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 14, 2005)

Sweet C said:
			
		

> [size=-1]Now after examining their website which is filled with all sort of zodiac symbols and Egyptian references (not saying anythings wrong if you have to have an appreciation for African culture ), *you have to really ask who are they serving? The reason I brought this up is b/c it is these types of music (somewhat spiritual) is that which puts us as believers in a situation where our spirit is open to things that are not of God.* And I love me some EWF, India Arie, and a variety of other artists of different genres, who for the most part, have "positive music". Listening to such artists occasionally, hey to each his own. But you must be extremely careful in what you are constantly listening to and meditating on. For me, I see a lot of Christian artists who make wide genres of music whether it be rap, jaz, neo-soul, etc., who utilizes the creativity of music to give glory to God, who often don't get the support of believers b/c they are not as popular as other secular or Christian artists. And to these is where I personally choose to support, not only b/c they need it, but b/c they are spreading the gospel, and by supporting them, I am helping to spread the gospel. [/size][size=-1]
> 
> 
> [/size]


*Very good points you made in this paragraph! *


----------



## ClassicChic (Apr 23, 2005)

blaxalrose said:
			
		

> I'm a Christian, but I am not feeling all of the points here...I just think sometimes folks are stretching to make a point. I mean folks think Al Green's songs are evil, but he's singing about love and happiness. I see nothing wrong with listening to Aaliyah. To each his own. Every artist, whether they be secular or Christian has their struggles.
> 
> Maybe it's a matter of focus/religious doctrine in some churches, wasn't in mine. I am not a fan of degrading music by any stretch of the imagination. But I do think some folks are fanatical with their looking down on secular music. And I think folks stretch looking for evil things.
> 
> ...


 
Kudos! Another great post, Blaxalrose!


----------



## Cinnabuns (Apr 25, 2005)

blaxalrose said:
			
		

> DMX for example, I don't think his cover had anything to do with anything evil.  DMX's imagery to me had more to do with his obsession with dogs, and dogs ripping enemies apart.  He closes each of his shows with a powerful pray. If dude ever got himself on track, who knows what he could do for the kingdom.



Well to me it seems like DMX's album cover was quite disturbing.   He is drenched in blood to mimic the Savior.  And I found it interesting how the the letter M in DMX over his head on the album cover looks like horns. To me this is very wrong.  Dogs ripping enemies apart? Not a pretty picture at all!

So he closes each of his concerts with a prayer but whom is he praying to?  I've come to realize that just because someone says God in a prayer that that individual could be praying to someone else entirely.


----------



## Honeyhips (May 7, 2005)

I heard part two. Interesting.


----------



## sugaplum (May 11, 2005)

Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> Well to me it seems like DMX's album cover was quite disturbing.   He is drenched in blood to mimic the Savior.  And I found it interesting how the the letter M in DMX over his head on the album cover looks like horns. To me this is very wrong.  Dogs ripping enemies apart? Not a pretty picture at all!
> 
> So he closes each of his concerts with a prayer but whom is he praying to?  I've come to realize that just because someone says God in a prayer that that individual could be praying to someone else entirely.



Yeah, I noticed that he crys in concerts too while he's praying.


----------



## Honeyhips (May 16, 2005)

I finally saw part one tonite. part two was definitely better b/c he explained how hip hop is a religion and how it got started. I honestly have heard messages like these before (one by Paul Ankenberg, and recently within the last year one that included hard core rap and rock music), but like he said in part one it only included "their" music. The death and heavy metal stuff. Now when he was talking about Bt&H, I remember when that Cd came out and looking at the cover thinking how demonic it was. But again I thought I was immune to it b/c I was never into rap that much. I was the mellow, jazzy, r&B, house, concsious hip hop. (it has to be ok if they are talking about real life political stuff right.   ). I've been doing my own research on hip hop and I had NO idea, how deep this stuff was. I thought it was _just_ music. I still don't think these people realize the depth of the spiritual world. I am convinced they know what they are doing, but they just don't know how deep it is.
This totally explains why rap is as big as it is.


----------



## sugaplum (May 23, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I finally saw part one tonite. part two was definitely better b/c he explained how hip hop is a religion and how it got started. I honestly have heard messages like these before (one by Paul Ankenberg, and recently within the last year one that included hard core rap and rock music), but like he said in part one it only included "their" music. The death and heavy metal stuff. Now when he was talking about Bt&H, I remember when that Cd came out and looking at the cover thinking how demonic it was. But again I thought I was immune to it b/c I was never into rap that much. I was the mellow, jazzy, r&B, house, concsious hip hop. (it has to be ok if they are talking about real life political stuff right.   ). I've been doing my own research on hip hop and I had NO idea, how deep this stuff was. I thought it was _just_ music. I still don't think these people realize the depth of the spiritual world. I am convinced they know what they are doing, but they just don't know how deep it is.
> This totally explains why rap is as big as it is.



HH or anyone else, would you recommend this dvd for anyone else to watch?


----------



## sugaplum (May 25, 2005)

bumping???


----------



## Poohbear (May 25, 2005)

The other day, my dad said he was talking to a minister at our church and they were saying how people who listen to music with profanity and all types of bad things that their salvation is in question... do you ladies think that is true?  I found it kind of extreme for them to come up with that conclusion...


----------



## Koffie (May 25, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> The other day, my dad said he was talking to a minister at our church and they were saying how people who listen to music with profanity and all types of bad things that their salvation is in question... do you ladies think that is true?  I found it kind of extreme for them to come up with that conclusion...




I think that is a little off, but I do believe that when people allow the secular music to influence them and they know the truth, then yeah, they could be headed to destruction.

i.e. there is a song out right now which I really hate.  

The lyrics are something like "Girl gimme dat p***y!" 

Now when you are feeding you brain this garbage, do you honestly think one is led by the Spirit? 

I believe that if it gets severe, then yeah, I'd be scared for that person on Judgement day.


----------



## Poohbear (May 25, 2005)

Koffie said:
			
		

> I think that is a little off, but I do believe that *when people allow the secular music to influence them and they know the truth, then yeah, they could be headed to destruction.*
> 
> i.e. there is a song out right now which I really hate.
> 
> ...


That's what I think as well that if you let it influence you, it can be detrimental to you...

I heard that song before too... it bothers me as well.  I can't believe someone can have the nerve to sing something like that or even listen to something like that!


----------



## Sweet C (May 26, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> The other day, my dad said he was talking to a minister at our church and they were saying how people who listen to music with profanity and all types of bad things that their salvation is in question... do you ladies think that is true? I found it kind of extreme for them to come up with that conclusion...


 
I agree with Koffie.  I don't think its as much a question of salvation, as much as it is a question of priorities.  Some people honestly know, so you can't really fault them if they are not informed.  But others do and choose to continue to do so.  As a believer, the Holy Spirit will guide you away from such behavior, if you don't quench him.


----------



## sprungonhairboards (May 26, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> The other day, my dad said he was talking to a minister at our church and they were saying how people who listen to music with profanity and all types of bad things that their salvation is in question... do you ladies think that is true?  I found it kind of extreme for them to come up with that conclusion...



I definately think thats a little, well alot extreme. However, like some posters have previously mentioned, I definately can tell my mood change when listening to certain music. When I listen to gangsta rap I get all angry and hard, when i listen to sexual music (which is just about everything else on the radio) I start at least thinking about it. I think the influence of the music MAY open you up to sinning and doing things you shouldn't, but losing your salvation just because you're listening, that's a bit much for me. I'll be honest, I dont always wanna listen to Gospel. Sometimes I wanna hear some good R&B or rock, but the radio is so trashy nowadays, just garbage, it hurts my ears, there's really nothing safe to listen to.


----------



## sugaplum (May 26, 2005)

Ok, so I have a question for you ladies, as Christians, since we are saved, and we've excepted the Lord Jesus Christ as our saviour, can we still go out and do what we want to do and make it into heaven?  I mean as long as we ask for forgiveness afterwards & we are saved. 

I just thought I read somewhere in the Bible about "repetition in sinning" and it spoke on asking for forgiveness of sins over and over again.  Can you ladies help me out on this one? Thanks


----------



## Honeyhips (May 26, 2005)

are you saying listening to music is a sin?


----------



## Koffie (May 26, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> are you saying listening to music is a sin?




I don't think that's what she meant.

I think that if you allow it to open doors and influence your behavior then it can LEAD to sin.

i.e. Let's say I'm listening to R-Kelly "12 play" with my man who I'm not married to.

Ok, if we are sittin' there, candles lit, lights dim and all, its safe to say we are headed to sin 'cause that music is SURELY not governed by the Holy Spirit for unmarried couples. And to add insult to injury, we'd probably be following the "12 steps" HTH


----------



## Koffie (May 26, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> *Ok, so I have a question for you ladies, as Christians, since we are saved, and we've excepted the Lord Jesus Christ as our saviour, can we still go out and do what we want to do and make it into heaven? I mean as long as we ask for forgiveness afterwards & we are saved. *
> 
> I just thought I read somewhere in the Bible about "repetition in sinning" and it spoke on asking for forgiveness of sins over and over again.  Can you ladies help me out on this one? Thanks




My first question is why would you want to do what ever you wanted to do when you signed your life over to Christ? Shouldn't we do what Christ wants us to do apart from what WE want to do?

Now, the part that I have bolded is something others might not agree with me on, but this is my stance:

I can't say who is going to Hell, but if one who professess to be saved is a back-biting heathen who likes to indulge in the ways of the world, then I say his/her salvation is questioned. Here's why:

Matthew 24:42-50
Romans 6:15-18
Romans 1:32
Romans 13:14
(I'm NOT about to type these long scriptures so read for yourself)


Now if we REPENT and are sincere about our actions and God sees this, then He is faithful and just to forgive, but if somebody says "I can do A, B, and, C 'cause I'm going to heaven anyways", then they need SERIOUS prayer. 

IMHO such type of thinking is evil and not of God, and it takes advantage of God and does not acknowledge the seriousness of sin.

I have more, but I gotta go pick up my brother. See yah! 

P.S. If anyone disagrees, please respond because I could always learn something knew.


----------



## sprungonhairboards (May 26, 2005)

I agree w/ Koffie. 

And to REPENT is not just to ask for forgiveness, but to TURN AWAY from sin.


----------



## Koffie (May 26, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> I agree w/ Koffie.
> 
> And to REPENT is not just to ask for forgiveness, but to TURN AWAY from sin.




EXAAAAACTLY!!!!!!


----------



## Honeyhips (May 26, 2005)

Then why is she talking about repenatance in a music thread. 





			
				Koffie said:
			
		

> I don't think that's what she meant.
> 
> I think that if you allow it to open doors and influence your behavior then it can LEAD to sin.
> 
> ...


----------



## sugaplum (May 26, 2005)

Koffie said:
			
		

> *My first question is why would you want to do what ever you wanted to do when you signed your life over to Christ? Shouldn't we do what Christ wants us to do apart from what WE want to do?*
> 
> Now, the part that I have bolded is something others might not agree with me on, but this is my stance:
> 
> ...



Of course we should do what Chirst wants us to do.  This is my understanding as well.  My friend wanted to know about this question. Thanks much.


----------



## Koffie (May 26, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Then why is she talking about repenatance in a music thread.




I thought you were talking about  Poohbear's question, not sugaplum's . My statement was in reference to what Pooh asked.


----------



## Cinnabuns (May 28, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Then why is she talking about repenatance in a music thread.



Yeah Koffie I thought that Honeyhips was referring to Poohbear's queston also! 

Which she are you referring to? I thought that people could ask questions if they wanted to and "yes" it is very much on topic especially on a subject such as this. IMHO


----------



## melodee (May 28, 2005)

I have tried for years to continue to listen to a very popular urban radio station in my area, even though I knew the music was not uplifting in any way.


The last straw came when the DJ played a very popular gospel song (many morning show hosts will sign off with a gospel song).  It was so beautiful, but as soon as it ended, the radio Big Voice shouted "God d---, the best radio station".  I was horrified at the blasphemy.  I was going to call and complain, but then I said to myself, this isn't the kind of station I should be getting my inspiration from anyway.

After a long haitus, I flipped it on recently (I know, I shoulda known) to hear "Wait till you see my...." .  The vulgarity set off my holy spirit alarm, so back to my gospel and jazz I go.


----------



## Poohbear (May 30, 2005)

I didn't say anything about repentance  ...guess there was just a lil' confusion.


----------



## CarLiTa (May 30, 2005)

I didnt read all the replies but that is interesting. I wonder what the Catholic Church would say about American Hip-hop music. I doubt they want us to listen to it either. 
Like Poohbear, I actually listen to the words of the song first before I say I love it. Certain songs are so demeaning, I just can't get past the words! and can't listen to the crap at all. Other times, I might like the BEAT but cannot bear to listen to the words. Actually though, I'm not a fan of hip-hop or rap. I listen to R&B and all my ultimate favorite singers and stuff are women and they sing about love and stuff like that, rather than naked girls and money... so I guess I'm kinda good there.


----------



## locabouthair (May 31, 2005)

redeemed516 said:
			
		

> As we all know...Satan is the ruler of the airways (tv, radio, etc) We as Christians can't completly exclude ourselves from what is going on in the world. We have to walk circumspectly and be knowledgable of the times that we live in. As far as hip hop music (and other secular forms of entertainment-ie movies that may not convey a Godly message) we have to be able to listen/watch with a Christian ear/eyes. We don't have to be affected by what we hear and see. If you like rap music for the beat or because you might actually like what a particular song is saying if it is positive/uplifting then I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that. I personally like some of it. I can't take all that sex, smack ya momma with a skillet, beat ya girl up, i smoke i drank, sex me till we die type stuff. But i do believe that you shouldn't shun/disregard the entire genre just because you may not agree with what a few of it's representatives are saying. There is that side of Hip Hop that DMX, Tupac, Biggie, Murder Inc. (the INC.), death row and other s represent but the flip side is Hip Hop gospel and CRUNK gospel rap are slowly growing with the Christian youth because they can better relate to it than maybe someone older could.


 
This is how I feel. I like a lot of secular music because I like the beat but I don't engage in the negative things they talk about. And  there are a few rap/hip hop songs that are positive.


----------



## Honeyhips (May 31, 2005)

I didn't say that she couldn't ask questions, what are you talking about? 

Sugaplum's question on repentenance does seem out of place b/c this is a thread about music.  Listening to music is not a sin.  That is why I got confused. I was asking HER, SUGAPLUM, to exaplain herself. 



			
				Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> Yeah Koffie I thought that Honeyhips was referring to Poohbear's queston also!
> 
> Which she are you referring to? I thought that people could ask questions if they wanted to and "yes" it is very much on topic especially on a subject such as this. IMHO


----------



## sugaplum (May 31, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Then why is she talking about repenatance in a music thread.



I guess the "she" you are referring to is me.  Koffie already helped me out with this question.

Thanks Koffie I explained it to my friend as well. 

I thought I explained myself??  At least I thought I did.   And what is wrong with posting a question here about this.  I'm a Christian coming to other Christians for advice.  If so I apologize if my "question is out of place for this thread," but does it really matter where & when I post my question????  <----For real. 

Where the confusion came in was that I'm not the only "she" who spoke on repentence in this thread.


----------



## Poohbear (May 31, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> Ok, so I have a question for you ladies, as Christians, since we are saved, and we've excepted the Lord Jesus Christ as our saviour, can we still go out and do what we want to do and make it into heaven? I mean as long as we ask for forgiveness afterwards & we are saved.
> 
> *I just thought I read somewhere in the Bible about "repetition in sinning" and it spoke on asking for forgiveness of sins over and over again. Can you ladies help me out on this one? Thanks*


Hey sugaplum... this thread may help ya' out: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=58448

By the way, I didn't see anything wrong with you asking this question in this thread. 

Be blessed!


----------



## sugaplum (May 31, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Hey sugaplum... this thread may help ya' out: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=58448
> 
> By the way, I didn't see anything wrong with you asking this question in this thread.
> 
> Be blessed!


Thanks Pooh.   You are a blessing.   I will look at this thread.


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

*I DID NOT SAY IT WAS WRONG!!!!* (yes I'm shouting, cuz  y'all not hearing me) It just seemed like she SUGAPLUM thought that listening to music was a sin.  I  did not understand where she was coming from which is why *I ASKED THE QUESTION for CLARIFICATION!* She could have easily said she was asking a question and it was off topic from the main title but related to something else. *IT WAS NOT THIS SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!* Plus it is a good topic that could really use a thread on its own. 





			
				Poohbear said:
			
		

> Hey sugaplum... this thread may help ya' out: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=58448
> 
> By the way, I didn't see anything wrong with you asking this question in this thread.
> 
> Be blessed!


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

YEs I was referring to your question, I didn't quote you b/c I posted directely under you.  I don't care where you post yoru question. I GOT CONFUSED, and asked for CLARIFICATION. THAT IS ALL. I didn't realize you were veering off topic, so your question did not relate to music to me at all.  Because listening to music is not a sin. It's simple really. 





			
				sugaplum said:
			
		

> I guess the "she" you are referring to is me. Koffie already helped me out with this question.
> 
> Thanks Koffie I explained it to my friend as well.
> 
> ...


----------



## sprungonhairboards (Jun 1, 2005)

Calm down HoneyHips before you burst something    

I understood you perfectly. I was wondering the same thing (if she was saying listening to music was sinful) when I originally saw the post (Sugaplums post).


----------



## melodee (Jun 1, 2005)

locabouthair said:
			
		

> This is how I feel. I like a lot of secular music because I like the beat but I don't engage in the negative things they talk about. And there are a few rap/hip hop songs that are positive.


 
I know how you feel loca, but Eventually you will grow tired of weeding through pure stank garbage to get to anything decent. And then you will find yourself lowereing your standards as to what is decent when the decent stuff still says "MFer" or makes a refence to something unwholesome.  I mean people thought DC was safe until they put out this sexually charged and explicit album.

That's what happened to me. I finally realized that it's not worth trying to find that needle in a haystack. I will still listen to some secular stuff like jazz or contemporary, but only on CD's or station dedicated to keeping the hot garbage off the airways.


----------



## sugaplum (Jun 1, 2005)

HH, is all that really called for? I'm leaving and I just wanted to say that I love you all and I will be keeping you all in my prayers.  

Good-bye everyone & God Bless You all.


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

Now this is unneccessary. 





			
				sugaplum said:
			
		

> I'm out of here.  God Bless You all.


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

Ok...I won't. 


			
				sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> *Calm down HoneyHips before you burst something   *
> 
> I understood you perfectly. I was wondering the same thing *(if she was saying listening to music was sinful) when I originally saw the post (*Sugaplums post).


 Thank you, I was beginning to think I was crazy or stupid. I was like what did I miss? Why don't I get it?


----------



## sugaplum (Jun 1, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Now this is unneccessary.



Actually what you've done was unneccessary.  God Bless you.


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

Yes it is. Because if you are leaving b/c of a misunderstanding you don't need to do that.  This thing is so simple it is being blown way out of proportion.  Plus if you are leaving, leave, why announce it?  I never got that on message boards. On other boards we call them board suicides, it is like the people who do them are crying out for extra attn and want people to beg them to stay.  I'm not saying you are doing that. But my original reaction, was I know she is not leaving over this. I wasn't even mean or harsh. Just frustrated.  Just explain yourself. It really is that simple. 





			
				sugaplum said:
			
		

> HH, is all that really called for? I'm leaving and I just wanted to say that I love you all and I will be keeping you all in my prayers.
> 
> Good-bye everyone & God Bless You all.


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

I've done nothing but explain myself, and state my opinion. Yes I think it is uneccessary for you to leave over this. It is a misunderstanding. I don't want you to be so offended by it that you'll just walk away. If you want to fine, but it isn't necessary to do that over something as small as this.  I wasn't being mean to you or bashing you. 

You don't have to soften what you say with a kissing smiley and a God bless you. If I was offended, that wouldn't magically make it go away. 


			
				sugaplum said:
			
		

> Actually what you've done was unneccessary.  God Bless you.


----------



## Cinnabuns (Jun 1, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I didn't say that she couldn't ask questions, what are you talking about?
> 
> Sugaplum's question on repentenance does seem out of place b/c this is a thread about music.  *Listening to music is not a sin. * That is why I got confused. I was asking HER, SUGAPLUM, to exaplain herself.



Then I must ask you a question then Honeyhips,

If listening to music is not a sin...then what is it?

Is it pleasing in the site of God?  Maybe you should pray first before you answer this question.

And again this is just a question, please don't get offended by it.  We ALL here tyring to learn more about walking closer with Christ not attack or yell at one another.  The book of Ephesians says that we are to be truthful in love.  Do not take any of this the wrong way.

Oh and at Sugaplum, don't leave because of her comments, it's just not worth it.


----------



## beverly (Jun 1, 2005)

Okay - once again, negativity or shouting at members is not allowed at ALL on the any of the forums, and especially on this Christian Fellowship board.  Honeyhips if you could please try to tone it down, I created this board to be a place of fellowship and a place to uplift Jesus Christ, and it hurts me when you hurt other people by shouting at them or being negative. Beverly


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

I wasn't shouting to talk down to her or anyone. I was shouting to be heard. Nor was I being negative. 





			
				beverly said:
			
		

> Okay - once again, negativity or shouting at members is not allowed at ALL on the any of the forums, and especially on this Christian Fellowship board. Honeyhips if you could please try to tone it down, I created this board to be a place of fellowship and a place to uplift Jesus Christ, and it hurts me when you hurt other people by shouting at them or being negative. Beverly


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> Oh and at Sugaplum, don't leave because of her comments, it's just not worth it.


 



(all I want to say but you can't just post smileys).


----------



## beverly (Jun 1, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I wasn't shouting to talk down to her or anyone. I was shouting to be heard. Nor was I being negative.


 

Using bold letters and using all caps are considered shouting in the "Interent World" and is seen as being mean or negative in my opinion, especially when done after a disagreement has taken place. Bev


----------



## Cinnabuns (Jun 1, 2005)

beverly said:
			
		

> Okay - once again, negativity or shouting at members is not allowed at ALL on the any of the forums, and especially on this Christian Fellowship board.  Honeyhips if you could please try to tone it down, I created this board to be a place of fellowship and a place to uplift Jesus Christ, and it hurts me when you hurt other people by shouting at them or being negative. Beverly



I could not agree more.


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

I know it can be perceived that way which is why I explained what I meant. If you and everyone else still want it to mean that, then that's fine. I even tried to portray that, and I admit rather poorly, in the inital shouting post.

Maybe I should start using smileys so people won't think I am  _trying_ to be a rude bi&ch. 





			
				beverly said:
			
		

> Using bold letters and using all caps are considered shouting in the "Interent World" and is seen as being mean or negative in my opinion, especially when done after a disagreement has taken place. Bev


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

I guess you need to show me how if I listen to a song today, and die that I will go straight to hell. SO even though my Grandfather confessed Christ as his is savoiur, lived his life according to God's will, BUT b/c he enjoyed Ray Charles on his deathbed he went to hell the night he died.  Listening to music is not a direct sin . Oh and b/c my Uncle the Pastor played a Ray CHarles song in his church during the funeral, he is going to hell too? 


  (this seems to work). 


			
				Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> Then I must ask you a question then Honeyhips,
> 
> If listening to music is not a sin...then what is it?
> 
> ...


----------



## Cinnabuns (Jun 1, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Maybe I should start using smileys so people won't think I am  _trying_ to be a rude bi&ch.



Is cursing really necessary?


----------



## Cinnabuns (Jun 1, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I guess you need to show me how if I listen to a song today, and die that I will go straight to hell. SO even though my Grandfather confessed Christ as his is savoiur, lived his life according to God's will, BUT b/c he enjoyed Ray Charles on his deathbed he went to hell the night he died.  Listening to music is not a direct sin . Oh and b/c my Uncle the Pastor played a Ray CHarles song in his church during the funeral, he is going to hell too?
> 
> 
> (this seems to work).



 <---- Yes, it works for me.

God decides who goes to heaven or hell, it is not up to me Honeyhips.


----------



## Enchantmt (Jun 1, 2005)

I think this is just a topic we are going to have to agree to disagree on. The bible doesnt regulate every single aspect of our lives. We are freed from that kind of bondage. We have to make decisions for ourselves. 

The bible doesnt address listening to music per se, and we know that the Jewish people had their own cultural songs, love songs, war song etc. There isnt just one facet to life to celebrate. If you have a bad attitude, start fantasizing about immoral things, you backslide or your behavior changes negatively as a result of listening to music, watching certain tv shows, hanging around certain folx, visiting certain places like clubs, then be self aware and make the changes necessary to as a  mature and responsible Christian to protect your walk with God. If God is convicting you of listening to certain music, then by all means stop. The bible states that if you consider a certain act a sin, than it is sin to you. However, not everyone is at the same place in their spiritual walk, and not everyone is being convicted of the same things at the same times. I respect everyones right to refrain from engaging in behavior that negatively affects their spirit, it is the wise thing to do. Just keep in mind we all have certain strengths and weaknesses and not everyone is going to be negatively affected by what they see or hear.


----------



## sprungonhairboards (Jun 1, 2005)

I agree with you Enchantmt.

Some people may be convicted from spending so much time on hair boards because they could/should be using that time to serve the Lord or whatever and the vibe isn't always cohesive and the boards definately aren't full of saints. Does that make hairboards sinful? I dare anyone to find it in the Bible. To say definatively music, all music period is sinful is an _opinion _ to me. Not a teaching of Christ. 

I've never seen that in the Bible but I _have _ seen things to the contrary encouraging us to sing and rejoice and enjoy music.


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

Then who are you to determine if listening to music is a sin? 





			
				Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> <---- Yes, it works for me.
> 
> God decides who goes to heaven or hell, it is not up to me Honeyhips.


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

I totally agree.  





			
				Enchantmt said:
			
		

> I think this is just a topic we are going to have to agree to disagree on. The bible doesnt regulate every single aspect of our lives. We are freed from that kind of bondage. We have to make decisions for ourselves.
> 
> The bible doesnt address listening to music per se, and we know that the Jewish people had their own cultural songs, love songs, war song etc. There isnt just one facet to life to celebrate. If you have a bad attitude, start fantasizing about immoral things, you backslide or your behavior changes negatively as a result of listening to music, watching certain tv shows, hanging around certain folx, visiting certain places like clubs, then be self aware and make the changes necessary to as a mature and responsible Christian to protect your walk with God. *If God is convicting you of listening to certain music, then by all means stop. The bible states that if you consider a certain act a sin, than it is sin to you. However, not everyone is at the same place in their spiritual walk, and not everyone is being convicted of the same things at the same times*. I respect everyones right to refrain from engaging in behavior that negatively affects their spirit, it is the wise thing to do. Just keep in mind we all have certain strengths and weaknesses and not everyone is going to be negatively affected by what they see or hear.


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 1, 2005)

Yes it was. 


			
				Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> Is cursing really necessary?


----------



## sprungonhairboards (Jun 1, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Yes it was.



you are too much


----------



## Cinnabuns (Jun 1, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Yes it was.



What a shame

You are so much more than a "B" why are you calling yourself that? You are a child of God and he does not create these if you are of His.


----------



## Cinnabuns (Jun 1, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Then who are you to determine if listening to music is a sin?



Then I would have to ask you this question then: Who's to say that it isn't?

Did you pray before you answered the previous question?  You might want to do that because no matter what I say you are going to do it anyways, that's up to you and God not me and you. It looks like you are getting angry at the wrong person here.

Listen to music if you must, but for me I won't.


----------



## bludacious (Jun 1, 2005)

Oh, my God this thread has gotten so far off the chain.

I started not to post.  But, young sisters, the bible and God's will has been questionable by many.  The will of God is interpreted differently by many, also.  That's why it is so important for us to read the bible and to pray to God for understanding.  My best friend is of a different denomination than I am.  We truly have different belief.  But, I respect her belief and she respects mine.  

Basically, I would like to say that all this going back in forth is not called for.  Agree to disagree and pray for your fellow sister(s).  One thing we all can agree on is God is Good!


----------



## Cinnabuns (Jun 1, 2005)

bludacious said:
			
		

> Oh, my God this thread has gotten so far off the chain.
> 
> I started not to post.  But, young sisters, the bible and God's will has been questionable by many.  The will of God is interpreted differently by many, also.  That's why it is so important for us to read the bible and to pray to God for understanding.  My best friend is of a different denomination than I am.  We truly have different belief.  But, I respect her belief and she respects mine.
> 
> Basically, I would like to say that all this going back in forth is not called for.  Agree to disagree and pray for your fellow sister(s).  One thing we all can agree on is God is Good!



Amen, I love the way that you put this bludacious.


----------



## bludacious (Jun 1, 2005)

Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> Amen, I love the way that you put this bludacious.


 
Thanks Cinnabuns!  I can tell that you are truly a strong Christian.  But, I just would like to say to you that.  There is no need for you to defend your beliefs.  (this is one reason I don't like to take part in Christian threads)  You just pray to God to send you the wisdom to understand his will.  We have all sin and come short of the Glory.  When judgement day comes, we will all have our chance to stand before the king!  So, stay strong!


----------



## Bublnbrnsuga (Jun 1, 2005)

I am gonna be honest...I don't think that is Honey Hips posting...maybe someone got a hold to her account because this doesn't seem like her at all.


----------



## Cinnabuns (Jun 1, 2005)

bludacious said:
			
		

> Thanks Cinnabuns!  I can tell that you are truly a strong Christian.  But, I just would like to say to you that.  There is no need for you to defend your beliefs.  (this is one reason I don't like to take part in Christian threads)  You just pray to God to send you the wisdom to understand his will.  We have all sin and come short of the Glory.  When judgement day comes, we will all have our chance to stand before the king!  So, stay strong!



Thank you for the complements and for such encouraging words, I will never forget them. 

God Bless you bludacious


----------



## Honeyhips (Jun 2, 2005)

> What a shame
> 
> *You are so much more than a "B" why are you calling yourself that? You are a child of God and he does not create these if you are of His*.


 This is comical.  I know who I am, and who I belong to. I don't have to proove my Christianity to anyone, nor do I have to justify myself to you.   (Or should I make a spin off thread asking for everyone's resume, how long have you been saved, have you sinned, how long have you spoke in tongues, do you serve in your church, and then you all can vote on what a real Christian is... ).

I've been told on other boards that my writing style can be perceived as rude b/c I can be very blunt. (Something I never realized) The only reason why I explained myself was *so people* wouldn't think I was *trying *to be b*tchy and that  I was honestly confused about what sugaplum was referring to. It is not my fault she got upset that someone questioned or disagreed with her. That is life, she'll learn to cope. 
 You are coming across as holier than thou. You truly don't get it.  
Did you pray before you started to talk to me?  I seriously doubt it.  If so, the Holy Spirit would have told you what was going on, and to leave his baby alone.  




			
				Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> *Then I would have to ask you this question then: Who's to say that it isn't?*
> 
> Did you pray before you answered the previous question? You might want to do that because no matter what I say you are going to do it anyways, that's up to you and God not me and you. It looks like you are getting angry at the wrong person here.
> 
> *Listen to music if you must, but for me I won't*.


  Why are you going in circles? Why can't you answer your own question? *You brought this up.* I'm not angry about anything.  God and I have already dealt with whether or not I should listen to certain music, so for me it is a non issue.  It appears that you had no intention of answering anything, and it was a feeble attempt to call me out. That is a shame. And very sad. I never questioned whether or not someone should listen to music.  I never got into that discussion. 



> you are too much


  You must've been praying.


----------



## Lovelylocs (Jun 2, 2005)

I wouldnt say ALL hip hop, but probably a lot of it. LOL. I dont like many of those songs any way b/c they are degrading to women, blacks, and esp. black women. I find it offensive. I dont buy the cds, but sometimes I'll dance to it if it comes on at a party of smthg.
BTW My reasons have nothing to do w/religion... more w/sociology.


----------



## Enchantmt (Jun 2, 2005)

Ladies, I realize that when you are dealing with text it can be harder to communicate and even tho things are in black and white ideas and thoughts can still be misunderstood. Please lets not get to the point where we are going back and forth in personal attacks debating this issue. The Christianity forum should be the one place we can come together for enlightenment/encouragment with out added hostility and a lot of tit for tat posting. I trust y'all to keep the peace.  Thanx....


----------



## so1913 (Apr 3, 2006)

I just heard this man speak on Friday and had no idea what I was about to hear.  I went in thinking "Oh goodness is this another basic Hip Hop is negative song"  I left confused and conflicted.  Some of the stuff presented has me in shock even till now.  I am a HUGE music fan, most of my money goes to CD's, live shows, satallite radio, etc.  But there is SOOOO much out there that we really aren't aware of when we listen to a lot of this.  Prime example is the Grey Album, the Jay Z Black album mix tape released shortly after the Black Album.  I have this as well as other Black album mixes...I've shared this with other people...to find out that one of the tracks played backwards, the DJ mixed Jay Z chanting "Murder, murder, murder Jesus" has me messed up in the head.  I'm am just going to pray on it...it's crazy how the devil tries to get in our heads.  Do I feel all music is demonic, no, but how do you know you aren't missing something that's been hidden so carefully. 

Another thing that got me was the Three Six Mafia spill...I HATE this group, but never in a million years would I have thought the "three six" stood for six six six.  I have no clue what those boys are saying, but to read and see the lyrics from some of there songs.....UNBELIVEABLE and UN-GODLY!!!!  To hear the words and philosophy of one of the most respected hip hop artist KRS One on the basis of that 5 percent garbage (I knew it was craziness, but to REALLY learn about the basic beliefs)

To see a Animation from the Wu Tang Klan that showed the Wu-bird (their Wu Tang symbol of the "W" and bird together) fly and sever the head of Jesus....then see it absorbing the spirit out of the severed head of Jesus, and the Wu bird create the members of the Wu Tang Klan...Now, I'd love to find this for myself to offically see it's a Wu Tang production, but right now, knowing them, I'm going with it is and hope to be proven wrong.  Why did ODB change his name to Big Baby Jesus?   Why does Jay Z call himself Jay Hova and have everyone chanting his name and raising our hands in the air to him?

He didn't have time to get into Neo Soul, but he breifly touched on that.  I'm thinking Neo Soul???  What in the world can be wrong with that!  He mentioned Erykah Badu (who we all knew was off anyway, lol) and Andre naming their child Seven.  .  He explained that the number seven in the "5 percent" world represents the seventh letter of the alphabet, "G" which stands for God who they believe the black man and woman is.  


I'm am not ready just yet to throw everything out. I have some research to do on my own and things to work through with God to get some understanding.  At this point, I cannot ignore what I've been exposed to  (although I kinda wish I wasn't...almost like ignorance is bliss, I know that's terrible!!!) because that would, for me, would be blatant blasphemy. It was soooo much to swallow and I wasn't prepared.  This was an eye opener and I'm praying to God to find some peace in all of this because out of all my struggles in my working to become a better Christian, this one, music,  is proving to be one of the biggest.


ETA:  I didn't have a chance to read through this thread to see the turn it took.  My intentions wasn't to start anything back up, so I hope this remains positive.  I've just really been uneasy about all of this lately as I am working on strengthening my personal relationship and walk with God and needed to kinda let some stuff out.


----------



## qtgirl (Apr 4, 2006)

I have not been to this seminar, but I believe that this man is using scare tactics for people to further his own agenda.  

I would like to know what Jay-Z song he was talking about, because #1 who plays a song backwards? #2 I know most lyrics so maybe I can give some more insight.

Also, about Three Six Mafia, they have addressed this rumour about the name of the group and their lyrics before.

However, I say all that to say that if you truly want to be straight in your Christian walk then no you wouldn't listen to this music because of what it's saying pimping, violence, etc.

Lastly, I am a Christian, but just listening to music by someone who talks about their religion will not make a change in me.




> I just heard this man speak on Friday and had no idea what I was about to hear. I went in thinking "Oh goodness is this another basic Hip Hop is negative song" I left confused and conflicted. Some of the stuff presented has me in shock even till now. I am a HUGE music fan, most of my money goes to CD's, live shows, satallite radio, etc. But there is SOOOO much out there that we really aren't aware of when we listen to a lot of this. Prime example is the Grey Album, the Jay Z Black album mix tape released shortly after the Black Album. I have this as well as other Black album mixes...I've shared this with other people...to find out that one of the tracks played backwards, the DJ mixed Jay Z chanting "Murder, murder, murder Jesus" has me messed up in the head. I'm am just going to pray on it...it's crazy how the devil tries to get in our heads. Do I feel all music is demonic, no, but how do you know you aren't missing something that's been hidden so carefully.
> 
> Another thing that got me was the Three Six Mafia spill...I HATE this group, but never in a million years would I have thought the "three six" stood for six six six. I have no clue what those boys are saying, but to read and see the lyrics from some of there songs.....UNBELIVEABLE and UN-GODLY!!!! To hear the words and philosophy of one of the most respected hip hop artist KRS One on the basis of that 5 percent garbage (I knew it was craziness, but to REALLY learn about the basic beliefs)


----------



## Bublnbrnsuga (Apr 4, 2006)

qtgirl said:
			
		

> I have not been to this seminar, but I believe that this man is using scare tactics for people to further his own agenda.
> 
> I would like to know what Jay-Z song he was talking about, because #1 who plays a song backwards? #2 I know most lyrics so maybe I can give some more insight.
> 
> ...




Before Three 6 Mafia because well-known, they actually made raps surrounding devil worship and sacrificing. I know because I am from Memphis and while in junior high and high school, I used to listen to this stuff. Pure devil worship and I would like to know what they said Three-6 means because if you listened to their old stuff, it was self explanatory.


----------



## qtgirl (Apr 5, 2006)

I didn't know that, however the songs that I have heard from them are vile even w/o being devil worshipping songs.  I just did a google search on a list of their songs and by the titles alone, you would think a Christian wouldn't buy it anyway.
2-Way Freak Lyrics
44 Killers Lyrics
Act Like You Know Me Lyrics
Anyone Out There Lyrics
Ass N Titties Lyrics
Baby Mama Lyrics
Barrin' You *****es Lyrics
Big Mouth, Big Talk Lyrics
Can I Get Paid Lyrics
D-Suckin'-H Lyrics
Da First Date Lyrics
Die A Soldier Lyrics
Dis *****, Dat Hoe Lyrics
Don't Make Me Kill Lyrics
Don't Trust 'Em Lyrics
Drive By Lyrics
From Da Back Lyrics
**** Y'all Hoes Lyrics
Gangsta *****z Lyrics
Hoes Can Be Like *****s Lyrics
I'm So Hi Lyrics
Jus Like Us Lyrics
Just Anotha Crazy Click Lyrics
Land of the Lost Lyrics
Late Night Tip Lyrics
M.E.M.P.H.I.S. Lyrics
Mafia Lyrics
Mafia *****z Lyrics
Mean Mug Lyrics
O.V. Lyrics
Pass Me Lyrics
Pimpin And Robbin Lyrics
Project Hoes Lyrics
Put Ya Signs Lyrics
Ridin' On Chrome Lyrics
ridin' spinners Lyrics
Sippin' On Some Syrup Lyrics
Slob On My Knob Lyrics
Slob On My Nob Lyrics
Take A Bump Lyrics
They Don't **** Wit U Lyrics
Tongue Ring Lyrics
Touched Wit It Lyrics
U Got Da Game Wrong Lyrics
War Wit Us Lyrics
We 'Bout To Ride Lyrics
We Shootin' 1st Lyrics
Weak *** ***** Lyrics
Whatcha Know Lyrics
Where Da Cheese At Lyrics
Who Run It Lyrics
Wona Get Some, I Got Some Lyrics



			
				Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Before Three 6 Mafia because well-known, they actually made raps surrounding devil worship and sacrificing. I know because I am from Memphis and while in junior high and high school, I used to listen to this stuff. Pure devil worship and I would like to know what they said Three-6 means because if you listened to their old stuff, it was self explanatory.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 5, 2006)

Yeah, my sister was telling me about Three Six Mafia's song "Stay Fly" and in the background, this girl is saying, "Lucifer! You're my King! You're my god!" while Three Six is saying "I gotta stay fly-y-y-yyy-y-yy-y-yy-yyy."

Plus, look at their name: Three Six = 666!  That's self explanatory there.... so sad.


----------



## so1913 (Apr 5, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Before Three 6 Mafia because well-known, they actually made raps surrounding devil worship and sacrificing. I know because I am from Memphis and while in junior high and high school, I used to listen to this stuff. Pure devil worship and I would like to know what they said Three-6 means because if you listened to their old stuff, it was self explanatory.




Yes, that's what some friends have told me and the same thing that was presented at the program.  They quoted threesix mafia lyrics and it was demonic no doubt.  I wish I bought a pen and paper to look some of this stuff independently.

For the record, I've NEVER listened to this kind of crap, I've dispissed this group and music and other groups with similar styles since before I was aware of this stuff.


----------



## so1913 (Apr 5, 2006)

qtgirl said:
			
		

> I have not been to this seminar, but I believe that this man is using scare tactics for people to further his own agenda.
> 
> *I would like to know what Jay-Z song he was talking about, because #1 who plays a song backwards? #2 I know most lyrics so maybe I can give some more insight.*
> 
> ...



It's on the Grey album by DJ Dangermouse, track 11 Interlude/Lucifer.  The actual track makes no sense when played forward.  I searched on line and other people have recorded it reverse just to see what the deal was (independent of exministries or hearing of) and have discovered the messages.  I right now have my friend who gave me the album way back when have someone to record it in reverse to check it out for myself, again, independent of exministries.


My whole thing is I'm not going to defend it, nor go along with the argument before I've done research of my own. I'm convinced that * I need to pay more attention * to what I listen too because you really never know...especially if you aren't specifically looking for "it" to begin with.


----------



## so1913 (Apr 5, 2006)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Yeah, my sister was telling me about Three Six Mafia's song "Stay Fly" and in the background, this girl is saying, "Lucifer! You're my King! You're my god!" while Three Six is saying "I gotta stay fly-y-y-yyy-y-yy-y-yy-yyy."
> 
> Plus, look at their name: Three Six = 666!  That's self explanatory there.... so sad.




That's what I've heard as well....

I couldn't stand them in the first place, but now.....


----------



## princesmich (Apr 5, 2006)

As christians our lives should bring glory to God if it doesn't bring glory to him and the message is not pleasing no we should not be listening to it by the way go to this site about the truth behind hip hop www.exministries.com after you take a look let me know how you feel about the subject.


----------



## princesmich (Apr 5, 2006)

*Because of it's origin and what Hip Hop originally represented in it's earlier stages, we cannot embrace it as Christians. Their can be no Holy Hip Hoppers or no Christian Hip Hop because the culture cannot lend itself to the direction of the Holy Spirit. Yes, we do have very powerful Christian rap groups that preach the word of God through rap, but we must not get confused and call what they are doing Hip Hop. You have to understand that God does not embrace anything that has a corrupt origin. The very word "HipHop" was used by Afrikka Bambatta, the pioneer of the culture and professed Zulu Nation god, to describe the parties that he was hosting in clubs across New York in the early 70's. Since then, he has developed a religion that rested upon the Hip Hop culture. The culture is not from God, therefore, it should not be used by the people of God to describe anything that is of God!*
*People, please understand that Hip Hop is a way of governing your life. Therefore, it cannot be exploited as a Christian way of living. We understand that KRS-ONE and Afrika Bambaata have used the term Hip Hop to describe emceeing, deejaying, breakdancing, and other forms of entertainment, but Hip Hop is also, to them, a religion and a way of worshipping ourselves instead of the Lord Jesus Christ. How can we as believers hold on to this culture when it's origin is rooted in witchcraft and voodoo? How can we call ourselves Holy Hip Hoppers when this move of the enemy is influential enough to persuade Christians to protect it and defend it as a culture that should be embraced by the church even though it's founders don't embrace Jesus Christ? God forbid. My people, search the word of God for yourself.* _*2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.*_
*The positive aspects of Hip Hop are dung as far as the word of God is concerned. The negatives far out weigh the positives. Listen to the voice of the Lord on this one. God will not embrace what the world has developed as a means of glorifying that which is carnal and sin filled. Therefore, being a Holy HipHopper is the just like saying I am a Holy Pimp or a Gospel Gangsta or a Thug for Christ! God forbid. The old man is dead! Come on Christians, stop loving the things of the world and what the world has taught us. God wants to come and totally wipe away the old man, the old thought process and the old carnal identity that we obtained through poverty, sin, abandonment, fatherlessness, hurt, anger, and prejudice. Sure, we struggled, but once we are set free, we must walk in the newness of live in Jesus Christ.*
*So, we support Christian rappers that preach the unedited word of God in their music, but we will never embrace the culture of Hip Hop or any other culture of man. We will only support the set apart, sanctified lifestyle of the Kingdom of God through Jesus Christ.*
*Romans 6:6, Ephesians 4:22, Colosians 3:9  *





*What it is? Da  3:10
*
*Hip-hop is not rap! Rapping is style of conveying a message, like singing, humming, whistling, etc. Hip-hop is a culture, or way of living and governing your life. There is also a style of music that is a part of the hip-hop culture, but it’s not just represented by rap. *
*The founders and original pioneers of this culture teach that it is a religion. They teach that it is a tool to point people to the their god. Not the God of the Holy Bible. KRS-ONE teaches that the bible is irrelevant to the knowledge of his god. Hip-hop is a very effective tool for the degradation of our nations youth. KRS-ONE and the Temple of Hip Hop teaches that this culture was designed to give knowledge to self, or to show the Black man himself as god! He also teaches that we should accept Hip Hop as an organized religion and accept Hip Hop's drug of choice, marijuana!*

*What is its purpose?  2Ti 3:1
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



*
*To set the stage  for the coming of the antichrist and teach his doctrine of self-worship and  knowledge of self.
To blur the existence and reality of the true and living  God of the Holy Bible.
To lead youth into rebellion against the righteousness  of God’s word.
To steal the true “meaning” or “purpose” of existence from our  youth and lead them to early
death before they can fulfill their God given  destiny.
*
*Where did it come from?  Da 11:38
*
*The true origin of Hip Hop can be traced back as far as Africa. The Zulu Nation, a group of rebels under the leadership of Afrika Bambaata, started the music and religious aspects of hip hop in the late 70’s.



What does it produce? Ga 5:19

Youth with no fear. Youth with no purpose. Youth with no respect for authority. Youth with no parental guidance. Youth with no regards for their bodies, appearance, self-respect or futures. Hip Hop drives every aspect of our youths lives in most cases. They live it, breathe it, wear it and die for it. Hip-hop has done what no other tool of the devil has been able to do at this level. It has influenced all races, all ages, and all low-income areas in America. Hip-hop itself is a very weak demon, but has gone unattested for so long, that it has a major following.

How do you know when youth are under the  influence of Hip Hop? Isa 5:20

1. The music – This is the number one source of influence. This is the evangelical tool for spreading the spirit of hip-hop abroad. You can easily tell when youth are into gangsta rap and explicit lyrical content. They show it in the behavior and the choices they make in life.
2. The clothing – Sagging jeans, tight fitted tops and bottoms, gang related outfits, prison attire. These are the clothes that hip hop influences our teens to wear freely. What was once considered appropriate only for prostitutes and hardened criminals is now acceptable attire for our youth!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



3. The markings – Tattoos, piercing, strange hairstyles, gold teeth, vicious jewelry (dragons, dogs, snakes, etc) and the crucifix are all products of the hip hop culture. The devil wants our children marked like Cain, to show their pledge of allegiance to rebellion and self-gratification. These marking follow our youth and make it very hard to convert them back to their original identity.
4. The  mentality – Hip-hop causes youth to be rebellious. To use foul language in public. To commit very strong sexual acts with other youth. To feel they have nothing to lose. To give up on their “good” values and take on the negativity of the hip hop culture. *
*



*​ *
*​
ights Reserved ​


----------



## princesmich (Apr 5, 2006)

*In hip hop – 
a. Prison is a good place. To be arrested and beat the rap makes you a  hero.
b. Teen pregnancy is accepted as the norm.
c. Sex is good. Getting  VD is not even frowned upon. Having multiple partners okay.
d. Homosexuality  and Bi Sexuality is normal and accepted.
e. Serving God and sin together is  the norm.
f. God forgives sin, so it’s okay.
g. Foul language and physical  abuse is accepted.
h. Bad grades in school are okay.
i. Using drugs and  drinking is accepted.
j. Murder is good thing, if you deserve it.
k.  Choosing a god other than Jesus Christ is okay.
l. Love is just a word.
m.  Being a thug is cool. Looking like you just robbed a bank is the norm.
n. The  white man is not fair and holds the black man down.
o. Church, the bible,  preachers, etc. are not needed. We can learn on our own.
p. XXX behavior is  accepted and preached lyrically in the music.
q. Anything goes, as long as  you are feeling it.

How do we stop it? Ro 12:2

We as believers must fight against it. Not embrace it. It must start in the church. We must raise the standard of our churches and form anti Hip Hop youth groups. We cannot promote this culture in our churches. Many churches try to use secular music, hip-hop attitudes and customs to try to reach out to the youth. But we must not be conformed to the world. We must pray for the transformation. The renewing of the mind by the power of God. It can be done, but it must be done through us. We must educate, research, and warn parents, teachers, counselors and youth about the dangers of this culture and the consequences of sin.
*
*



*





























































































*The EX Daily Word can be  delivered to you Mon-Fri directly to your email address. *​ *Just type you email address  in the space below and press submit.*​

























​ ​ ​ 
























*THE  MINISTRY -THE VISION -THE  WATCH -THE ARGUMENTS -THE  TRUTH -THE FOUNDER -THE  RESOURCES -THE PRODUCTS -EX ENGAGEMENTS -EX DAILY  WORD -EX DOWNLOADS -GUEST BOOK -CONTACT US -MEEKSITES*​






http://www.exministries.com @2004  G. Craige Works All R


----------



## BerrySweet (Apr 5, 2006)

princesmich said:
			
		

> *In hip hop –
> a. Prison is a good place. To be arrested and beat the rap makes you a  hero.
> b. Teen pregnancy is accepted as the norm.
> c. Sex is good. Getting  VD is not even frowned upon. Having multiple partners okay.
> ...


What are all of the red X's supposed to be?


----------



## so1913 (Apr 5, 2006)

BerrySweet said:
			
		

> What are all of the red X's supposed to be?



I think she just copied and pasted from the web page and they are graphics that could not be posted.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 5, 2006)

so1913 said:
			
		

> That's what I've heard as well....
> 
> I couldn't stand them in the first place, but now.....


But I actually heard this sung straight out in the song... no playing backwards or anything... They are singing it kinda low where you can't tell what they are saying because when they are singing "I gotta stay flyyyyyy" it overpowers the ladies in the background singing about Lucifer being their king and god.


----------



## BerrySweet (Apr 5, 2006)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> But I actually heard this sung straight out in the song... no playing backwards or anything... They are singing it kinda low where you can't tell what they are saying because when they are singing "I gotta stay flyyyyyy" it overpowers the ladies in the background singing about Lucifer being their king and god.


So that's what they really are saying??? Good grief!  I saw some lyrics to another one of their songs were they were questioing Jesus being our saviour. 



> *How can you have faith in a god
> That can not even control creation
> How can he lead you to salvation
> There is no hope in chaos only
> ...


----------



## princesmich (Apr 6, 2006)

I did copy from the page sorry for those red x's


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 6, 2006)

Wow BerrySweet! Those are some horrible lyrics.  how can they sing about this crap? And make lots of money off of it too?


----------



## so1913 (Apr 6, 2006)

BerrySweet said:
			
		

> So that's what they really are saying??? Good grief!  I saw some lyrics to another one of their songs were they were questioing Jesus being our saviour.




Yep, this is the song that he used as an example.  CRAZY, isn't it???!!!???!!!!


----------



## BerrySweet (Apr 6, 2006)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Wow BerrySweet! Those are some horrible lyrics.  how can they sing about this crap? And make lots of money off of it too?


I know!!! And to think, I acutally enjoyed some of their songs!  I feel ill just thiking about it-thank the Lord I was shown this.


----------



## kit25 (Apr 6, 2006)

I am so glad that I found this thread. Since salvation I haven't had a hard time believing that secular music including hip-hop is the devil's music, but to be honest I have found myself liking a song because of the beat and passively listening along, or watching videos from time to time when I'm bored. 

This information has been a real eye opener for me and has really turned me off to secular music especially rap. I had no idea about Ja Rule & Jay Hova considering themselves gods, or just how bad the roots of hip-hop are. (Bad root, bad fruit.) This has really inspired me to take a stronger stand for righteous and holiness in terms of the things I listen to and watch.

Yesterday, I watched and listened to some of the downloads at exministries.com and I just ordered the 4 DVD set about hip-hop. I'm really looking forward to learning more about this.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 6, 2006)

BerrySweet said:
			
		

> I know!!! And to think, I acutally enjoyed some of their songs! I feel ill just thiking about it-thank the Lord I was shown this.


Yeah, I used to like listening to their songs too back when I was in high school.  I'm just glad that now we both see the light of this all.


----------



## NtheNameofJesus! (Apr 6, 2006)

i read some of these posts...not all, it's like 18 pages long now....but

the biggest thing to ME is: what does God say about all this?  does God laugh at what WE laugh at...or would He call that an abomination, or sin?  if our lives are truly no longer OUR lives, then it's not up to us to make a decision!  if we were bought by God, and we belong to Him, then my mind belongs to Him, my body, this temple, belongs to Him.  why subject the Holy Ghost to filthy music, to bad tv shows, to nasty stuff!??  We put the HG through so much....and then act like "well, God knows my heart!" indeed, He does!  but He also desires that that same heart He knows please Him in all things....did ya'll know that in the scripture, "delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart"....desire there means to find pleasure in and bring pleasure too!  God should be delighting in us!  is He delighting in me?  am i pleasing Him with my life?  

that's what it's all about.  i have heard MANY MANY arguments on this subject (and i'm a hardcore supporter of g. craige...gotta have a g. craige quote everyday! lol), but to me it all boils down to how much i really love God and want to please Him. it's not about my religiousity or my holiness, but about God's holiness and His standards.  God loves us soooooo much that He was willing to give His Son for our sins....all throughout the Bible God has shown His love for us over and over and over again.  God's love for us is abounding and ever flowing!  Isn't it only fitting that as my "reasonable service" I try my best to love the Lord back, my sacrificing my life, my thinking, MY ways, My will, to Him?  Lord, let our love for YOU increase more and more so that we desire to please You in everything, being willing to let go of things we need to let go off at anytime to glorify You even the more.  in Jesus' Name, amen!


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 6, 2006)

NtheNameofJesus! said:
			
		

> i read some of these posts...not all, it's like 18 pages long now....but
> 
> the biggest thing to ME is: what does God say about all this? does God laugh at what WE laugh at...or would He call that an abomination, or sin? if our lives are truly no longer OUR lives, then it's not up to us to make a decision! if we were bought by God, and we belong to Him, then my mind belongs to Him, my body, this temple, belongs to Him. why subject the Holy Ghost to filthy music, to bad tv shows, to nasty stuff!?? We put the HG through so much....and then act like "well, God knows my heart!" indeed, He does! but He also desires that that same heart He knows please Him in all things....did ya'll know that in the scripture, "delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart"....desire there means to find pleasure in and bring pleasure too! God should be delighting in us! is He delighting in me? am i pleasing Him with my life?
> 
> that's what it's all about. i have heard MANY MANY arguments on this subject (and i'm a hardcore supporter of g. craige...gotta have a g. craige quote everyday! lol), but to me it all boils down to how much i really love God and want to please Him. it's not about my religiousity or my holiness, but about God's holiness and His standards. God loves us soooooo much that He was willing to give His Son for our sins....all throughout the Bible God has shown His love for us over and over and over again. God's love for us is abounding and ever flowing! Isn't it only fitting that as my "reasonable service" I try my best to love the Lord back, my sacrificing my life, my thinking, MY ways, My will, to Him? Lord, let our love for YOU increase more and more so that we desire to please You in everything, being willing to let go of things we need to let go off at anytime to glorify You even the more. in Jesus' Name, amen!


You are EXACTLY right! This is so true what you have said.  It's not about us or what we think or what society thinks.  It's ALL about God.


----------



## Emotional_High (Apr 6, 2006)

Whoa!  I remember the last time i was here and the same king of thread was posted by another member who a lot of ppl were getting upset at. Now people are really talking about it like crazy.  So many pages!  Im glad to see that we can stick together and not let this music corrupt our minds.  

As i said when i was here last time, It doesn't have to necessarily be the lyrics of the songs but the rythm and beat of the song that can do much damage.  If any part of the music is not created from the source from which we eminated (love) then it is no good for our souls.

So when you hear those hip hop beat with christian lyrics that is like burning an angel in hell fire.  If anyone cares to study kinesiology you will see that even the strongest man on earth will go WEAK when exposed to hip hop beats.  But when exposes to christian beats his muscles will be even stronger than he thought they were. (don't mean to sound like dr phil)


----------



## Trini"T" (Apr 8, 2006)

Yeah Three-6 mafia are devil-worshippers.  I mean its clear by their name.  Some(edited the word "dumb" bcuz some people just don't know better...not necessarily dumb) people think Three-six has to do with a CRIP set but no they're also known as Triple-six mafia(666).  I never like that group because their name alone gave them away


----------



## mahogany (Apr 8, 2006)

iiBlackBarbieii said:
			
		

> Yeah Three-6 mafia are devil-worshippers.  I mean its clear by their name.  Dumb people think Three-six has to do with a CRIP set but no they're also known as Triple-six mafia(666).  I never like that group because their name alone gave them away




ok I have asked around about this and most people have no clue if they are devil worshippers are not. I think until you guys actually hear them say they are out of their mouth then it is very unchristian like to call them something you have no clue they are. Just like this guy claiming that Aaliyah's role as Queen of the Damned  was the reason for her death is just speculation and it really kills  me to hear Christians actually believe that mess.


----------



## BerrySweet (Apr 8, 2006)

iiiBlackBarbieiii said:
			
		

> Yeah Three-6 mafia are devil-worshippers. I mean its clear by their name. Dumb people think Three-six has to do with a CRIP set but no they're also known as Triple-six mafia(666). I never like that group because their name alone gave them away



See I never wrapped my mind around the three-sixes, I thought it was 36 or something.  Stupid me-but now I know!



			
				mahogany said:
			
		

> ok I have asked around about this and most people have no clue if they are devil worshippers are not. I think until you guys actually hear them say they are out of their mouth then it is very unchristian like to call them something you have no clue they are. Just like this guy claiming that Aaliyah's role as Queen of the Damned  was the reason for her death is just speculation and it really kills  me to hear Christians actually believe that mess.



I acutally posted their lyrics, *and it's pretty clear where they stand.*  I don't like to jump to conclusions about anything, be it music or people.  That's why I went and looked up their lyrics and saw it for myself-*please go back and read the thread*.


----------



## Emotional_High (Apr 8, 2006)

iiBlackBarbieii said:
			
		

> Yeah Three-6 mafia are devil-worshippers.  I mean its clear by their name.  Dumb people think Three-six has to do with a CRIP set but no they're also known as Triple-six mafia(666).  I never like that group because their name alone gave them away



I remember a few years ago they were doing an interview and one of them said "Devil's mafia baby!"  So when a friend i went to school with saw them and said they were called three 6 mafia i said no they are called devil's mafia.  Later i realized that she was right and then i thought maybe i was just hearing things when the guy said devil's mafia.  But now that you mention that i know that i heard correctly...lol...never thought of the three-6 part of the name.


----------



## kit25 (Apr 10, 2006)

I just received my DVD's from exministries.com and I've watched The Truth Behind Hip Hop (Part 1) and What Every Church Needs to Know about Hip Hop.  If you are on the fence about whether or not christians should listen to hip-hop, please get these DVD's. He lays out a very sound argument for why hip-hop should not be in the church.


----------



## lahennesy26 (Apr 10, 2006)

I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THAT BECAUSE MY UNCLE IS A PREACHER OF HIS OWN CHURCH AND THEY ALL LISTEN TO HIP HOP THE  ONLY TIME THEY ACT DIFFERENT IS AT CHURCH .


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 10, 2006)

mahogany said:
			
		

> ok I have asked around about this and most people have no clue if they are devil worshippers are not. I think until you guys actually hear them say they are out of their mouth then it is very unchristian like to call them something you have no clue they are. Just like this guy claiming that Aaliyah's role as Queen of the Damned was the reason for her death is just speculation and it really kills me to hear Christians actually believe that mess.


You can just see by their lyrics that Three-Six Mafia are devil-worshippers.  You're not going to have a Christ-like group singing about burning in hell, shooting & killing people and all the other crap they talk about in their songs. And like I and others have said, the name of their group (666) speaks for itself. The clues are all given.


----------



## MariposaMorena08 (May 15, 2006)

Regarding Christian lyrics to a hip-hop beat: I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but where is the line drawn? When American Black gospel music was at its genesis it was good; they used the common instruments and rhythmns of their day in in order to honor God. How can we then say, well, if it's more modern sounding than The Winans that it is of the devil? When does the devil enter the song? Once we add the modern sounding drums? Are Native American Christians being "worldly" when they use their drum? What about our African brother and sisters in Christ? In all reality the first "Christian" music probably sounded very Jewish, since the first "Christians" were actually Jews. So in that case, all of us must be headed to THE LAKE in a handbasket. We have to be careful not to allow legalism and our opinions to limit the work of God. Don't lock Him in a box, I tried...he just doesn't seem to stay in there!! LOL Keep the faith, sisters!


----------



## Poohbear (May 16, 2006)

MariposaMorena08 said:
			
		

> Regarding Christian lyrics to a hip-hop beat: I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but where is the line drawn? When American Black gospel music was at its genesis it was good; they used the common instruments and rhythmns of their day in in order to honor God. How can we then say, well, if it's more modern sounding than The Winans that it is of the devil? When does the devil enter the song? Once we add the modern sounding drums? Are Native American Christians being "worldly" when they use their drum? What about our African brother and sisters in Christ? In all reality the first "Christian" music probably sounded very Jewish, since the first "Christians" were actually Jews. So in that case, all of us must be headed to THE LAKE in a handbasket. We have to be careful not to allow legalism and our opinions to limit the work of God. Don't lock Him in a box, I tried...he just doesn't seem to stay in there!! LOL Keep the faith, sisters!


IMO, the problem isn't with the beat, the music, or the instruments being used... I believe the problem is with the lyrics and the evil things that rappers and some r&b singers sing about.


----------



## MariposaMorena08 (May 16, 2006)

ITA with Poohbear! That's why it doesn't make sense to me to say that people like Kirk Franklin or The Cross Movement (love 'em!!!) are not called by God to deliver the gospel message because the beats are different.


----------



## prettywhitty (May 17, 2006)

I have completely read this entire post and did a little research on my own. I went to the exministries site and other sites because I wanted to know for myself. Hip-Hop is no joke. I don't believe that it is from God. I know that when I listen to it,my mood changes and I want more things that feed my flesh and not my spirit. I have made the decision to put it down, even the R&B. If its not glorifying God, I don't need to hear it at this point. I think the important thing to do is to listen to the lyrics of the song and decide who its glorifying. If it is not of God, for me, I have to leave it alone. I give my God thanks for showing me the truth through this forum. God Bless.


----------



## BerrySweet (May 19, 2006)

MariposaMorena08 said:
			
		

> ITA with Poohbear! That's why it doesn't make sense to me to say that people like Kirk Franklin or The Cross Movement (love 'em!!!) are not called by God to deliver the gospel message because the beats are different.


Yea my issues isn't with the beats, it's the lyrics.  Those who get into "drums are derived from voodoo etc" are going too far.  Christian gospel can sound like anything.  People who say it's not Christian because it's not slow and filled with piano and harps are just being old fashinoned.


----------



## Trini"T" (May 24, 2006)

Miz Jackson said:
			
		

> I have completely read this entire post and did a little research on my own. I went to the exministries site and other sites because I wanted to know for myself. Hip-Hop is no joke. I don't believe that it is from God. *I know that when I listen to it,my mood changes and I want more things that feed my flesh and not my spirit.* I have made the decision to put it down, even the R&B. If its not glorifying God, I don't need to hear it at this point. I think the important thing to do is to listen to the lyrics of the song and decide who its glorifying. If it is not of God, for me, I have to leave it alone. I give my God thanks for showing me the truth through this forum. God Bless.


I noticed what you said in the bold part too.  This "I'm down for whatever" feeling comes over me.  The music never causes me to sin tho...it ain't that powerful now.  I mean really, I like to pretend I have some kind of control of my body and what I do with it All jokes aside tho, I feel like I am at a point right now where my spirit is finally I control of my body.


----------



## silverflyt (May 25, 2006)

Neither all Rap nor all Hip Hop offend my spiritual sensiblities. I decide based on the message.  I'm not going to invalidate and disregard an entire musical genre because of an unfair and inconsistant prejudice.   

BTW, believing hip hop and rap are going to suck you into hell is absurd-unless, of course you _are_ that unguarded... Perhaps you should pay your assailable mind a compliment-turn off the radio. Better still, think for yourself ...

"..resistance is futile..":assimilat


----------



## kit25 (Jun 17, 2006)

I havenâ€™t read through this post in a while, but I have watched the G. Craig Lewis DVDâ€™s more than a few times since buying them.

A couple of points I would like to hit onâ€¦1) The parallels that can be seen between rock & hip-hop music and 2) not being concerned about lyrics and only liking the â€œbeatsâ€ in a song.

On his 1st DVD, G. Craig Lewis talked about the devil not being satisfied with rock & roll music because it didnâ€™t draw in the black youth. Thus, he (the devil) came up with hip-hop. 

Iâ€™ve being doing some more research on worldly music and found some good info worth sharingâ€¦.


(For the complete article: http://www.av1611.org/cqguide.html )

1a) â€œWHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT ROCK MUSIC? 
Rock is unlike any other music. In other music, the melody is the main component, but in rock â€“ the rhythm or the beat literally takes over the music. 

"The rhythm in rock is the dominant part of the sound. The heavy emphasis on the BEAT is what distinguishes rock from every other type of music." (Frank Garlock, Music in the Balance, p. 32) 

"Perhaps the most important defining quality of rock and roll is the BEAT, . . . Rock and roll is different from other music primarily because of the BEAT." (Charles Brown, The Art of Rock and Roll, p. 42)

b)Does the Bible give us any indication to the type of music we should sing?

Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet MELODY, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Isaiah 23:16

For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; jothe d gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of MELODY. Isaiah 51:3 

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making MELODY in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:18-19

The Lord God refers to music as â€” MELODY! According to God â€” the emphasis of Christian music is the MELODY â€” not the BEAT! 

c) Rock music: no melody, just beats

The world famous composer and conductor, Dimitri Tiomkin said of rock music:

"The big beat is deliberately aimed at exciting the listener. . .There is actually very little MELODY, little sense in the lyrics, ONLY RHYTHM [beat]". (Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, Aug., 8, 1965, p. 9J) 

Lenny Seidel, a concert pianist and twenty-five year Christian music scholar, gives this definition of both godly music and rock music:

"True godly music will be composed of three elements - all in perfect balance with each other. They are: melody, harmony, and rhythm. 

Rock "music" has NO MELODY only fragments of melody endlessly repeated. Since there is no true melody, there is no real harmony. There is ONLY RHYTHM. And rhythm in and of itself is not music." (Leonard J. Seidel, Face the Music â€“ Contemporary Music On Trial, pp. 46-51)


----------



## kit25 (Jun 17, 2006)

2a) Drumming and Beats -

Little Richard, the self-professed "architect of rock â€™n roll", readily admits Satanâ€™s control and influence in his life and rock music:

"My true belief about Rock â€˜nâ€™ Roll â€” is this: I believe this kind of music is demonic . . . A lot of the BEATS in music today are taken from voodoo, from the voodoo DRUMS." (Charles White, The Life and Times of Little Richard, p. 197) 

b)The Bible lists many kinds of instruments: 

Psalms 150:3-5 says:
3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. 

With all the many references to musical instruments, there is one instrument that is NEVER mentioned! The DRUM! Why is that? The drum was a very common instrument in Egypt and the lands around Israel. And yet the DRUM is NEVER mentioned in a King James Bible. 

c) Did the Lord just forget to include the DRUM or is there another reason?

Is it because â€” drums are associated with voodoo, shamanism, paganism and magic rituals?

"[Drums] represents the beat of the heart and is played to summon up magic powers." (Miranda Bruce-Mitford, The Illustrated Book of Signs & Symbols, DK Publishing, 1996 p.80) 

"The shaman was the original 'long hair', the first rock star draped in leather, dancing POSSESSED to a rhythm banged out on A DRUM." (Danny Sugerman, Appetite for Destruction, p. 208)

In Siberia, in northern Asia, drums are used in shamanic rituals to heal people. It is believed that the shaman can communicate with the spirit world THROUGH DRUMMING. (Louise Tythacott, Musical Instruments, Thomas Learning, 1995, p. 37)

"Pagan dances and rituals are always accompanied by the incessant BEAT of DRUMS. Rhythm plays a major role in these demonic activities." (Hart, Lowell Satan's Music Exposed, Salem Kirban Inc., 1980 p.71) 

d) Robert Palmer is a contributing editor to Rolling Stone and other rock magazines. Palmer has also taught courses in music at Yale, and many other universities. Palmer was the chief advisor for the highly acclaimed "History of Rock 'n' Roll" that aired on public television. Palmer, an advocate and lover of rock music, is among the leading authorities on rock music. 

Here's what Palmer says about rock and the drum:

"Bata drums [drums used in voodoo], sacred to the Yoruba people of Nigeria and Cuba: Their push and pull provided a template for the inner rhythms of rock and roll." (Palmer, Robert Rock & Roll An Unruly History, Harmony Books, New York, 1995 p.46) 

"The idea that certain RHYTHM patterns or sequences serve as conduits for spiritual energies, linking individual human consciousness with the gods, is basic to traditional African religions, and to African-derived religions throughout the Americas. And whether we're speaking historically or musicologically, the fundamental riffs, licks, bass figures, and drum rhythms that make rock and roll can ultimately be traced back to African music of a primarily spiritual or ritual nature. In a sense, rock and roll is a kind of 'voodoo' . . . ," (Robert Palmer, Rock & Roll, An Unruly History, Harmony Books, New York, 1995 p.53) 

Palmer describes how drums are used in "voodoo" possession â€” and the same drum patterns are part of the basics of rock 'n' roll and CCM!

"Bata drummers tap out their toques, or rhythm patterns, like signals to the realm of the gods, inviting and enticing them to come on down and mount or POSSESS their horses, or devotees. . .The specific drum patterns or toques include some riffs and licks basic to the rock and roll vocabulary." (Palmer, Robert Rock & Roll An Unruly History, Harmony Books, New York, 1995 p.62) 

e) Do you know why New Orleans is the voodoo capital of the U.S, and also the birthplace of jazz? Because drumming was forbidden in the U.S. â€“ except in New Orleans!

"This was especially true in New Orleans. African-based DRUMMING, singing, and dancing, discouraged and repeatedly banned elsewhere in North America, had flourished there since the early eighteenth century. This unique heritage has informed and enlivened New Orleans music ever since, as well as distinguishing it from the rest of American musical culture, making the city an ideal incubator for a nonmainstream music as rhythmically oriented as rock and roll. (Palmer, Robert Rock & Roll An Unruly History, Harmony Books, New York, 1995 p.21)

When the first blacks from Africa were converted to Christianity they knew the power and evil influence of DRUMS. And the converted blacks strictly forbid the use of drums! They referred to the drums as "the Devil's drum". (Martha Bayles, Hole in Our Soul: The Loss of Beauty and Meaning in American Popular Music, p. 138)


----------



## kit25 (Jun 17, 2006)

THE SECOND WITNESS THAT THE "ROCK BEAT" ITSELF IS DEMONIC

â€œIn April 1990, a Christian from Zimbabwe, Africa, arrived for his first visit to the United States. He is a native missionary under the Awana Youth Association. When he turned on a Christian radio station and listened to the music, he was shocked. Here is his report:

"I am very sensitive to the beat in music, because when I was a boy, I played the drums in our village worship rituals. The beat that I played on the drum was to get the demon spirits into the people.

"When I became a Christian, I rejected this kind of beat because I realized how damaging it was.

"When I turned on a Christian radio station in the United States, I was shocked. The same beat that I used to play to call up the evil spirits is in the music I heard on the Christian station."

-- Stephen Maphosah, Zimbabwe, Africaâ€

http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/music.htm


----------



## kit25 (Jun 17, 2006)

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in America/Rock-n-Roll/rock_curse.htm 

Satanâ€™s influence on musicians -

ANGUS YOUNG, lead guitarist for AC-DC, is called the â€œguitar demonâ€; and he admitted that something takes control of the band during their concerts: â€œ...itâ€™s like Iâ€™m on automatic pilot. By the time weâ€™re halfway through the first number someone else is steering me. Iâ€™m just along for the ride. I become possessed when I get on stageâ€ (Hit Parader, July 1985, p. 60).

â€œI was directed and commanded by another power. The power of darkness ... that a lot of people donâ€™t believe exists. The power of the Devil. Satanâ€ (LITTLE RICHARD, cited by Charles White, The Life and Times of Little Richard, p. 206).

â€œYou canâ€™t describe it [playing rock music] except to say itâ€™s like a mysterious energy that comes from the metaphysical plane and into my body. Itâ€™s almost like being a medium....â€ (Marc Storace, vocalist with heavy-metal band KROKUS, Circus, January 31, 1984, p. 70).

â€œ[Of his music JOHN LENNON said] â€œItâ€™s like being possessed: like a psychic or a mediumâ€ (The Playboy Interviews, p. 203).  

Jimmy Hendrix once said, "I can explain everything better through music. YOU HYPNOTIZE PEOPLE... And when you get people at their weakest point you can preach into the subconscious what we want to say.  That's why the name "electric church' flashes in and out."

â€œItâ€™s amazing that it [the tune to â€˜In My Lifeâ€™] just came to me in a dream. Thatâ€™s why I donâ€™t profess to know anything. I think music is very mysticalâ€ (John Lennon, â€œThe Beatles Come Together,â€ Readerâ€™s Digest, March 2001). 

 â€œI felt like a hollow temple filled with many spirits, each one passing through me, each inhabiting me for a little time and then leaving to be replaced by anotherâ€ (John Lennon, People, Aug. 22, 1988, p. 70).

â€œThe music to â€˜Yesterdayâ€™ came in a dream. The tune just came complete. You have to believe in magic. I canâ€™t read or write musicâ€ (PAUL MCCARTNEY, interview on Larry King Live, CNN, June 12, 2001).

â€œRock has always been the devilâ€™s music, you canâ€™t convince me that it isnâ€™t. I honestly believe everything Iâ€™ve saidâ€”I believe rock and roll is dangerous. â€¦ I feel that weâ€™re only heralding something even darker than ourselvesâ€ (DAVID BOWIE, Rolling Stone, February 12, 1976, p. 83).

â€œIn the end you have to look at a song and not know exactly where it came fromâ€ (BRUCE SPRINGSTEIN, Dateline, Dec. 14, 1998).

â€œThat certain feeling happened to me in a big way quite often with the first King Crimson. Amazing things would happen--I mean, telepathy, qualities of energy, things that I had never experienced before with music â€¦ you canâ€™t tell whether the music is playing the musician or the musician is playing the musicâ€ (Robert Fripp, guitarist for KING CRIMSON, Down Beat, June 1985, p. 61).

John McLaughlin, leader of MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA, testified: â€œOne night we were playing and suddenly the spirit entered into me, and I was playing, but it was no longer me playingâ€ (The Rock Report, p. 58).

Glen Tipton of JUDAS PRIEST says, â€œI just go crazy when I go onstage â€¦ itâ€™s like someone else takes over my bodyâ€ (Hit Parader, Fall 1984, p. 6).

In 1974, JONI MITCHELL told the press of a male spirit who helps her write music. â€œJoni Mitchell credits her creative powers to a â€˜male museâ€™ she identifies as Art. He has taken so much control of not only her music, but her life, that she feels married to him, and often roams naked with him on her 40-acre estate. His hold over her is so strong that she will excuse herself from parties and forsake lovers whenever he â€˜callsâ€™â€ (Why Knock Rock? p. 112, citing Time magazine, Dec. 16, 1974, p. 39).

â€œI wake up from dreams and go â€˜Wow, put this down on paper,â€™ the whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. I feel that somewhere, someplace itâ€™s been done and Iâ€™m just a courier bringing it into the worldâ€ (MICHAEL JACKSON, Rolling Stone, Feb. 17, 1983).

â€œWhen I hit the stage itâ€™s all of a sudden a â€˜magicâ€™ from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you just lose control of yourselfâ€ (Michael Jackson, Teen Beat: A Tribute to Michael Jackson, Summer 1984, p. 27).


â€œThe sexuality of music is usually referred to in terms of rhythm, it is the beat that commands a directly physical response.  Music with the heavy, hard beat got the name "Rock and Roll" when a disc jockey coined the term from sex in the back seat of a car.  The rock beat is Satan's sound of lawlessness. The rock beat is musical perversion. Every knowledgeable musician knows that the term "rock" really means a shameful act of lust.  But that is not the only problem!  The beat of rock is nothing new. Pagan, animistic tribes had the "rock beat" long before it came to America.  They use the driving beat to get "high" and bring them into an altered state of consciousness.  Traditional drumming and dancing techniques are designed to achieve the Shamanic State of Consciousness.  You see, the beat is a vehicle for demon infestation.â€

http://www.goodfight.org/exposelist.htmL


----------



## kit25 (Jun 17, 2006)

Beyonce/Sasha (I figure this is relevant since r&b and pop stars collaborate with hip hop artists.)

http://www.toure.com/CONTENT/ARTICLES/beyonce.htm

â€œHer choreographer, Frank Gatson, said that when she gets onstage she gets the Holy Ghost.  â€œSheâ€™s fearless,â€ Gatson says.  â€œWhen I worked with Usher I wanted to think Usher was that, but Usher has fear sometimes.  Kelly and Michelle donâ€™t have the nerve that she has.  She has no fear.  I think when you get out there you have to give it to the audience with no inhibition.  You gotta let the spirit take you.  Something powerful takes her over and in that time onstage sheâ€™s gone.  On VH-1 Divas she threw her $250,000 earrings and later she said she didnâ€™t know why she threw them.  Thatâ€™s losing yourself.  Iâ€™ve been in shows where people booed Beyonce.  And sheâ€™d be right in their face dancin, lettin em have it like it was nothing.  Most people would panic in that, youâ€™d see them buckle down.  But Beyonce has learned to dismiss fear.â€


â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.â€œAs showtime nears her intensity grows.  She stares at herself in the mirror, eyes burning.  She becomes restless, her foot shaking with nervous energy.  She bounces around a bit to see if sheâ€™ll leap out of the dress when Sasha! arrives.  Her back still doesnâ€™t feel right.

At the edge of the stage, just before she goes out, she stands alone, eyes closed, head down as if in prayer.  Sheâ€™s introduced in French, the music leaps from the speakers, and Sasha! explodes.  If Beyonce was sick and ailing, Sasha! is a tiger who attacks the crowd.  They stand and applaud from their first glimpse to their last.  â€œThey were excited and that got me excited,â€ she says afterward.  She runs through half of â€œBaby Boy,â€ then half of â€œCrazy In Love,â€ singing and dancing full out, then struts off-stage with a smile.  The dancers look dour, upset that they missed a few moves, but Beyonce is beaming and invigorated.  Now that sheâ€™s performed thereâ€™s a new spirit inside of her.  â€œItâ€™s funny,â€ she says. â€œWhatever hurts, when you get onstage it donâ€™t hurt no more.â€


----------



## MariposaMorena08 (Jun 20, 2006)

Thanks for the posts, kit25! However, I disagree in this because Satan is the creator of nothing, he only takes God's creation and twists it to turn it into an evil thing. Even with tambourines, some have a skin on the outside of them to create a drum sound. Traditional Israeli music also uses the drum in their music. So is it a certain drum beat altogether that is wrong to use for Christian music or the usage of the drum itself? I thought that the story of the Zimbabwean was *very* interesting, but am not ready to say that certain Christian artists' (i.e. Kirk Franklin) music cannot be used to glorify God because I have worshipped to some of those songs and felt the presence of God. What are your thoughts on this?


----------



## AnnDriena_ (Jun 24, 2006)

Garbage in garbage out. "Bend over and shake it b!Tch" and every other reference in a song that aludes to a woman that de facto refers to her as a ho and this and that is GARBAGE.

Hip hop as a genre has evolved into everybody tryin' to out cris' and out rim' everybody else. So unfortunately when you listen to it, it's not something you would get up and play in the house of God you shouldn't be allowing it in the Temple of God (your body, your ears, your brain).
So much of it is like audio porn.  It is a creative genre of music so every once in a while  you can pick and choose but it's not worth it to give your money to someone who is spouting something that seems to be good but then turn around and paint images of sex, cars and violence. Fresh water and salter water can flow from the same source. 

I'm glad their are speakers who are finally opening our youths eyes to what hip hop has evolved into. It used to be a the creative voice of a generation now it's just one big advertisement for strip clubs, designer alcohol, car rims and sexual acts.  
One of the latest eye openers about what hip hop is really doing to our generation came when I saw the ad for 50 cents movie in a white neighborhood and one in a black neighborhood. In the poster for the movie that was displayed in the black neighborhood he is holding a gun behind his back. In the white neighborhood poster he's holding a microphone. 

Why because those whites would not put up as easily with that being pushed to their kids as easily as we do.  Why do you think all that racket was being made about britney spears showing some belly button and nobody blinked an eye when Destiny's Child did a song about being with somebody elses man while writhing around in the video dressed in black patent leather outfits that made britneys' getups look like nuns habits.


----------



## Denim And Leather (Jun 28, 2006)

I look at this as an "in house" debate.  I don't see anything wrong with listening to secular music as long as it doesn't glorify sin, whether it be rap music, heavy metal, etc.  I still listen secular music, but try to be more selective as to what I listen to, as to not to listen to anything that promotes fornication, drunkedness, etc.

Some Christians feel differently, they feel that all secular music is off limits, and that's ok, too.  This is something that doesn't concern the doctrine of salvation, is not something heretical, so I don't sweat it.

I think it's wonderful that there are music acts out that that praise God with rap, metal, etc.  God can use their music to reach the lost just as much as he can use CCM or traditional gospel music.


----------



## DomesticDiva (Jun 30, 2006)

Hey Ladies,

This is my first post  

I was never a huge hip-hop fan anyway, but I looooooove every type of music.  My ipod is full of everything, but my heart is in listening to praise/gospel music.  I agree with previous posters who said that the devil didn't originate anything, but he perverts everything.  I have found that for me it is important to listen to a variety of different genres expressed in Christian music.  I love the diversity of the people of Christian faith, and I'm excited by how different music will reach a different segment of the Christian people.  I'm not a big fan of old-time hymns (except a few of them!), but my husband loves them; I listen to Christian hip-hop and have a wonderful time of praise; he can't stand it!  But I tend to be more free, he is more laid-back.

I've been through too much in my faithwalk to ever think that listening to a secular song is going to send me to h*ll.  Personally, though, I do not have the tolerance for secular music stations for the same reasons one of the ladies posted, they play Kirk Franklin, then they play something vulgar.  That's just nasty.  You can't go from a moment of praise to something else.  It creates an unsettledness in my spirit. 

My husband used to listen to secular stations more than Christian stations, and he's admitted that it contributed to how him feeling spiritually distant, so he chooses not to go there these days.  What convicts one person today, may not convict another person.  It's part of our spiritual journey, in my opinion.

Look forward to talking with you all more 

Nicole


----------



## Denim And Leather (Jul 1, 2006)

DomesticDiva said:
			
		

> I love the diversity of the people of Christian faith, and I'm excited by how different music will reach a different segment of the Christian people. I'm not a big fan of old-time hymns (except a few of them!), but my husband loves them; I listen to Christian hip-hop and have a wonderful time of praise; he can't stand it! But I tend to be more free, he is more laid-back.
> 
> Nicole


 
I totally agree! Christian music would be extremely boring if there was only one type available. I love 80's Christian metal bands, but I also like some CCM, and in church, I love traditional hymns as opposed to modern worship music.

BTW, welcome to the boards!


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Jul 23, 2007)

bump!


----------



## Minx (Jul 26, 2007)

I strongly feel that Hip-Hop music is demonic, and it didn't take G.Craige to show me that.

It's just so nasty, vile, filthy, and disgusting, there is nothing apealling about it at all.

My distaste for it goes way back:

Back in 1993, I remember KRS-1 came and performed in my town.
A friend of the guy that I was dating knew KRS1 personally and so he went backstage.
He came back that night, telling us that Kris was explaining to him that the Black man is god, and was giving his list of reasons based on what Kris taught him that night.

My then boyfriend debated him for hours then we finally left it alone.
That was my first taste of the 5% nation, I just didn't know it then.
So yeah, KRS1 is a true 5%er( OT:did y'all know that his son committed suicide about 2 weeks ago?)

Back in 1998, right before I stopped listening to secular music,
I was listening to the radio and something EXTREMLYsexuall came on, unedited.
So I called the local radio station that was playing the song with the sexually explicit lyrics (it was little Kim, I believe)
I spoke with the radio station manager(a white man) about why would he be playing that.
He said that it's what his listeners want.
So I said,"Who is your target audience?"
He said, "18-24 year olds"
I asked him to be more specific.
So he finally said, "18-24 year old African-Americans."

I asked him, "What about the kids who tune in, should they be exposed to that? What about your kids? Do you have _your_ station playing for _your _kids to listen to at the breakfast table?"
He actually insulted my intelligence and said, "Yes"
I just thanked him for his time and hung up, and have never listened to that station since.

I had a good mind to start a petition to ban this station, but did not follow through with it.
To this day, I denounce it every chance I get.

I despise Hip-Hop and everything associated with it.
I see it as a plot of the enemy to keep souls away from Christ, away from God, a distraction that leads to him.
I've written papers in college about the negetive effects of this music.
I look at our black children, our black women, our black men, society as a whole, and I can see the toll that this culture has taken on us.

I DO want to start an anti-hip hop movement.
I break and burn Hip Hop CD's if I find them in the hands of any youth in my family, they all know this about me.

I want a national ban, by the people, not by the government, sorta like what's happening now with the N word.

As a Christian, I cannot stomach Hip-Hop.
I can't support what it stands for: profanity, vulgarity, drugs, sexually immorality, degredation,etc.
My spirit just won't tolerate it!

I have three children, ages 19, 14, 10 and they know why we do not listen to Hip-Hop nor participate in it's culture.

For example:
My children do not have peircings and tatoos and 
I do not clothe my children in "urban wear"
(Baby Phat, Phat Farm, Roca Wear, Applebottom,etc).

I want nothing of that culture reflected in our life and/or lifestyle.

dk

I also do not allow BET, MTV, VH1 in my home, so videos are a  no-go as well.


----------



## Monilove122 (Jul 26, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:


> bump!


 
I disagree 110% with any genre of music being Demonic.  I just don't get how music which is something that came from God (not speaking of a particular genre just in general)  is demonic.  Now, what is demonic or in my opinion goes against my beliefs (cause to me demonic is STRONG) are the messages that disrespect women, glamourize negative lifestyles, etc. but the whole genre?  No can't say that at all.  It's all in what the message is that goes along with the beats.  To me to classify a whole genre of anything as denomic is a S-T-R-E-T-C-H to say the least.  There are Christian hip-hop groups and to say they are demonic while their songs are filled with the word is INSANE!!!!

It's all about what is instilled in people and your foundation which should be GOD.   What's the difference between when Dottie Peoples proclaims "He's an On Time God" and a christian rapper says the exact same thing.   I listen to good music PERIOD no matter the genre.   But because of my beliefs I don't listen to disrespectful, immoral, crazy music that pushes a negative message.  Other than that, I don't see the problem.'

They said the same thing about Thomas Dorsey's music when music was more "traditional" in the church.  And this too shall pass....


----------



## golden bronze (Jul 27, 2007)

*Holy Ghost Filter*

I think every song should be judged through the lens of Christ. If it edifies and uplifts, or does it promote sin. What I do is use my "holy ghost filter". If I start to get a feeling that I shouldn't be listening to something I cut it off. 

In the case of groups like Bone Thugs and 3six Mafia, it is obvious that those groups are promoting the devil and not Christ. 

Others may seem to be promoting Christ, but not in his entirety. That is also dangerous. 

Some people can listen to the music and not be affected. For others it encourages sinful desires. 

Sometimes the area is gray. For example, a married person may be able to listen to love songs if they encourage or promote desire for their mate. I certianly don't think that gospel music would be the sountrack during wedding night, because the act is fleshly, though approved by God. 

I used to listen to hiphop all the time. Now I limit my consumption. The music doesn't lead me to sin anymore, but too much of it is like empty calories. It doens't fill my spirit. I listen to it so I can understand what the young people are listening to, but that's about it. 

I don't think that the church should shun those who are promoting holy hip hop--- they need guidance in their ministry to be effective. I tend to believe it is not always the song, but the spirit in the person who made it that makes the difference. I heard a "gospel" song recently that was so full of self worhship it sent chills down my spine. The spirit was all wrong.


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Jul 27, 2007)

Monilove122 said:


> I disagree 110% with any genre of music being Demonic. I just don't get how music which is something that came from God (not speaking of a particular genre just in general) is demonic. Now, what is demonic or in my opinion goes against my beliefs (cause to me demonic is STRONG) are the messages that disrespect women, glamourize negative lifestyles, etc. but the whole genre? No can't say that at all. It's all in what the message is that goes along with the beats. To me to classify a whole genre of anything as denomic is a S-T-R-E-T-C-H to say the least. There are Christian hip-hop groups and to say they are demonic while their songs are filled with the word is INSANE!!!!
> 
> It's all about what is instilled in people and your foundation which should be GOD. What's the difference between when Dottie Peoples proclaims "He's an On Time God" and a christian rapper says the exact same thing. I listen to good music PERIOD no matter the genre. But because of my beliefs I don't listen to disrespectful, immoral, crazy music that pushes a negative message. Other than that, I don't see the problem.'
> 
> They said the same thing about Thomas Dorsey's music when music was more "traditional" in the church. And this too shall pass....


Co-sign as usual!  I love you posts


----------



## gone_fishing (Aug 21, 2007)

It is a fact of life that whatever a person allows to occupy his mind will sooner or later determine his speech and his action. This is the premise behind Philippians 4:8 and Colossians 3:2,5: establishing wholesome thought patterns. 2 Corinthians 10:5 says we "take captive every thought and make it obedient to Christ." This is how we allow Jesus to be "the Lord of our lives". That gives us a pretty clear picture of the kind of music we SHOULDN'T listen to.

There is nothing inherently wrong any particular _style_ of music. It's the message you must be wary of because of the first sentence above. IF certain types of secular music leads you to think about, or get involved in something that does not glorify God – then you should avoid it.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Aug 21, 2007)

*Re: Holy Ghost Filter*



golden bronze said:


> *I think every song should be judged through the lens of Christ.* If it edifies and uplifts, or does it promote sin. *What I do is use my "holy ghost filter". If I start to get a feeling that I shouldn't be listening to something I cut it off.*
> 
> In the case of groups like Bone Thugs and 3six Mafia, it is obvious that those groups are promoting the devil and not Christ.
> 
> ...


 

This is like dynamite:woohoo:....good stuff!!!


----------



## melodee (Aug 21, 2007)

so1913 said:


> I just heard this man speak on Friday and had no idea what I was about to hear. I went in thinking "Oh goodness is this another basic Hip Hop is negative song" I left confused and conflicted. Some of the stuff presented has me in shock even till now. I am a HUGE music fan, most of my money goes to CD's, live shows, satallite radio, etc. But there is SOOOO much out there that we really aren't aware of when we listen to a lot of this. Prime example is the Grey Album, the Jay Z Black album mix tape released shortly after the Black Album. I have this as well as other Black album mixes...I've shared this with other people...to find out that one of the tracks played backwards, the DJ mixed Jay Z chanting "Murder, murder, murder Jesus" has me messed up in the head. I'm am just going to pray on it...it's crazy how the devil tries to get in our heads. Do I feel all music is demonic, no, but how do you know you aren't missing something that's been hidden so carefully.
> 
> Another thing that got me was the Three Six Mafia spill...I HATE this group, but never in a million years would I have thought the "three six" stood for six six six. I have no clue what those boys are saying, but to read and see the lyrics from some of there songs.....UNBELIVEABLE and UN-GODLY!!!! To hear the words and philosophy of one of the most respected hip hop artist KRS One on the basis of that 5 percent garbage (I knew it was craziness, but to REALLY learn about the basic beliefs)
> 
> ...


 

Very interesting post.  As far as neo-soul, many of the artists are non Christian, and in fact as into a mixture of different "faiths"or "philosophies" .  Badu constantly talks about gods and shares humanistic views.  As does Maxwell.  Take a listen to Common.  And there are many others.  

Generally, "artsy" people tend to be more humanistic/pantheistic.  
It makes for some very interesting lyrics, but sometimes you're left saying "Wow....what?"


----------



## comike (Aug 21, 2007)

...................


----------



## MrsQueeny (Aug 22, 2007)

*Re: Holy Ghost Filter*



golden bronze said:


> I think every song should be judged through the lens of Christ. If it edifies and uplifts, or does it promote sin. What I do is use my "holy ghost filter". If I start to get a feeling that I shouldn't be listening to something I cut it off.
> 
> In the case of groups like Bone Thugs and 3six Mafia, it is obvious that those groups are promoting the devil and not Christ.
> 
> ...



Took the words out of my mouth.  Also I believe KRS 1 converted to Christianity too.  I think christian hip hop is good because it allows kids to rap but at the same time glorify and uplift the Lord.  That is all my husband listens too and it blesses me when I listen.  I think people are blinded by the majority image of hip hop that is put out there and thinks all of it is bad and that is not the case.  Kids are being saved, and coming to Christ because they can still enjoy hip hop and worship the Lord.  Q


----------



## chica_canella (Sep 6, 2007)

*Ok, I have to say this, after coming off the LSA thread I have to say that most of Hollywood is corrupted. I mean, I believed Craig Lewis at first but then I didn't because this Christian man I trusted gave hard facts to dispute him.  But now, I mean it is as if there is no denying it since reading some inside facts about Hollywood. *

*And also there was this thread about them praying with Beyonce during a show and she was acting as if she wasn't there. If you all know what I mean.  Something is right about her and alot of people out there in Hollywood.*


----------



## hair_wit_favor (Sep 6, 2007)

I have to admit I try to stay away from hip hop, but when it comes to line dances, I cant resist--I'm a dancer in my heart...(Cupid shuffle, cha-cha, etc)...but other than that I dont listen to anything secular. Some of it literally makes me sick.


----------



## hair_wit_favor (Sep 6, 2007)

Also if you're looking for some good christian rap... go to 
www.myspace.com/yenrah 
www.myspace.com/ericacumbo

These are some hot artists...I know them personally.


----------



## plzgrow (Sep 23, 2008)

great thread


----------



## HeChangedMyName (Sep 23, 2008)

I agree with what has been said previously,  if the beat and delivery is hip hop sounding, but the delivery edifies God, then it is ok.  If it promotes sin, then it's wrong.  Here is some good Holy Hip Hop

This one is my FAVORITE!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6VLqZGmjz4

Oh, and this is coming up on being a favorite--it's my ringback tone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsuNds_lTt8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJZ23E-Nr84&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEtZkutZuj4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8ihM3R9afk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pra5zfjUufk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOPc3nHRGxQ

Oh how could I forget this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J26y3HpNn-8&feature=related



I have a son who absolutely loves hip-hop.  He will listen and dance to anything remotely him hop.  I try to keep his soul filled with music like this.  I can't control his likes, but I can influence him so that he likes things of God.


----------



## Crown (Sep 23, 2008)

Monilove122 said:


> I disagree 110% with any genre of music being Demonic. * I just don't get how music which is something that came from God (not speaking of a particular genre just in general)  is demonic.* *Now, what is demonic or in my opinion goes against my beliefs (cause to me demonic is STRONG) are the messages* that disrespect women, glamourize negative lifestyles, etc. but the whole genre?  No can't say that at all.  It's all in what the message is that goes along with the beats.  To me to classify a whole genre of anything as denomic is a S-T-R-E-T-C-H to say the least.  There are Christian hip-hop groups and to say they are demonic while their songs are filled with the word is INSANE!!!!
> 
> It's all about what is instilled in people and your foundation which should be GOD.   What's the difference between when Dottie Peoples proclaims "He's an On Time God" and a christian rapper says the exact same thing.   I listen to good music PERIOD no matter the genre.   *But because of my beliefs I don't listen to disrespectful, immoral, crazy music that pushes a negative message.* *Other than that, I don't see the problem.'*
> 
> They said the same thing about Thomas Dorsey's music when music was more "traditional" in the church.  And this too shall pass....



Many things, like music, came from God. The problem is the pollution of those things by satan.
Did you have a music class? All arrangements/rythms are not good (innocent, healthy) in music. Message with words or not, certain types of music lead to depression, murder, fornication... and not glorify God. For example, one classical music can bring you in the upper room, and another one can put you very down.


----------



## msa (Sep 24, 2008)

This thread has really blessed me and I haven't even finished reading the whole thing.


----------



## blazingthru (Oct 16, 2008)

I liked some hip hop, some of its still makes me want to get up and dance, but I always feel guilty about it. When I go out with friends and we dance and we are having a good time I am the only one sitting there feeling guilty and uncomfortable.  I can't even enjoy myself until I had a few drinks and I am not a drinker so you know when I drink it goes right to my head but  I drink so that I can pretend to fit in and enjoy myself.  I believe that that is God talking to me. I just keep thinking its me feeling insecure or something but I was always the one who was so relieved when it was over. I have aton of songs on my IPOD that I wanted but don't even listen to.  I only listen to the gospel and inspirational music I think I am going to delete all of the secular music off of there.  Why pretend anymore it way to much work. I am happier not listening to that type of music.  Oh and its true my mind does wonder when I listen to secular music it makes me think of different relationships that I was in or I see myself at the club trying to make so and so jealous get real who cares about that stuff, but thats what I am thinking when i am listening to secular music, even sexual situations as well. Its just to much I rather be praising God and raising my hands while I am driving then bouncing in my seat to some R&B


----------



## southernchocolate (Jun 11, 2009)

Bumpin'

This is a great thread. I'm struggling with this at the very moment. I love my Maxwell, my India Irie, my Jill Scott and so on and so on. Reading this thread has opened my eyes to a lot of things. I know that if I am to serve the Lord wholeheartedly, indulging in such listenings will have to cease.


----------



## blazingthru (Jun 11, 2009)

I've come a long way since I posted in this thread I don't listen to any R&B music or participate in any club or party situations. I do go to weddings and thank God the weddings I go to the people are saved and they do listen to secular music but only the kind that is safe no cursing or downgrading or any of that just fun.


----------



## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 14, 2009)

Every believer has their own convictions. Some people feel affected by things differently than others... Music is a really touchy subject, but then again plenty of people who "only" listen to gospel also have sex and go to the club... What about drinking? I drink a glass or 2 of wine every now and then, cuz I like it... and I'm a Christian... but I am responsible.. Follow your own personal convictions and don't give in to your weaknesses. Alcoholics don't go to bars, Ex-strippers don't need to wear revealing clothing, and myself, a recovering big girl, need to stay away from fast food... If you feel a conviction, listen to God talking to you. Don't judge others for theirs.


----------



## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 14, 2009)

southernchocolate said:


> Bumpin'
> 
> This is a great thread. I'm struggling with this at the very moment. I love my Maxwell, my India Irie, my Jill Scott and so on and so on. Reading this thread has opened my eyes to a lot of things. I know that if I am to serve the Lord wholeheartedly, indulging in such listenings will have to cease.



I feel bad for you, and I am concerned with your message because it says several things... Are you so weak that you can't listen to India Arie telling people "I am not my hair" or Maxwell talkin about loving a woman? These are all parts of living, and I know God doesn't want you to be a robot, to lack feeling. Now if hearing "I am not my hair" causes you to "stumble" then I will pray for you, cuz that really just sucks, I couldn't live like that. And sorry if I sound a bit harsh, I am typing fast... I believe that music is a God-given therapy, and in my hardest times, listening to these such artists has made me feel better, and that doesnt mean I wasnt listening to gospel at the time either...


----------



## Laela (Jun 14, 2009)

Southern,

If you're "struggling" with this, that could mean God is working on you for some reason or another. It may not necessarily mean he doesn't want you to listen to certain music but moreso your conviction about something else. ....and getting you to change the types of music you listen to could be the way he can get your full attention or focus. I pray he helps you with this struggle.

Stay blessed.





southernchocolate said:


> Bumpin'
> 
> This is a great thread. I'm struggling with this at the very moment. I love my Maxwell, my India Irie, my Jill Scott and so on and so on. Reading this thread has opened my eyes to a lot of things. I know that if I am to serve the Lord wholeheartedly, indulging in such listenings will have to cease.


----------



## southernchocolate (Jun 14, 2009)

tdennis44 said:


> I feel bad for you, and I am concerned with your message because it says several things... Are you so weak that you can't listen to India Arie telling people "I am not my hair" or Maxwell talkin about loving a woman? These are all parts of living, and I know God doesn't want you to be a robot, to lack feeling. Now if hearing "I am not my hair" causes you to "stumble" then I will pray for you, cuz that really just sucks, I couldn't live like that. And sorry if I sound a bit harsh, I am typing fast... I believe that music is a God-given therapy, and in my hardest times, listening to these such artists has made me feel better, and that doesnt mean I wasnt listening to gospel at the time either...


 

Sweetie don't feel bad for me or concerned. If anything, pray for me. I'm sure that you have read through this thread and have seen many others thoughts on this particular subject. And by reading this thread you should know that I'm not the only one who is feeling or has felt this way. We both know that India's "I am not my hair" is not her only song. She has many.

And yes, Maxwell does sing about loving a woman, but why in the world would who is trying to live wholehearted for the Lord, a woman who has chosen to abstain from sex until marriage listen to Maxwell sing about 'Til the Cops come knocking' and not feel the least bit guilty? Yes at the moment my flesh is weak because at times I do get the 'urge'. Listening to Maxwell will not help that at all. I'm sure you've heard Jill Scott's 'Crown Royal and Ice'
Nuff said.

Not listening to secular music will not stop me from living but much of the music does not glorify the Lord or anything else for that matter. Much of the music is plain ol' ridiculous.To be honest, those three artist that I pointed out plus maybe two are three more are really the only secular music I listen to on a regular basis. I'm not perfect nor will I ever be. And I would be lying to sit here and say that I will NEVER listen to another R&B song again. I ask you to please not call anyone else weak because you feel as if you are that strong of a Christian that you cannot be broken. 

God bless you.


----------



## queen928 (Jun 15, 2009)

Bobby Jones' Let Talk Church was discussing this very topic about 2 weeks ago. Sorry if that was already posted. As a Christian I still listen to some R&B music. Now songs like Birthday Sex and songs like that I just can't listen to. I listen to more of the older stuff anyway. But what about the gospel artists that sampled beats from secular songs? Do you not listen to it because of the beat? I can hardly imagine a married couple that want to be intimate listening to a Christian love song while in the midst. I wouldn't even feel right.


----------



## mrselle (Jun 15, 2009)

Sometimes it’s not just the lyrics.  A snake can make its way through the tiniest of cracks and so can the devil.  Sometimes it’s not just the lyrics in music.  The devil can come in through the beat or through the demeanor of the artist.  Karen Carpenter sang a lot of songs about love and her voice was so beautiful and clear….almost flawless and yet even in singing about love there is a sadness that comes across in her voice.  I was listening to one of her songs not too long ago and I noticed that I became a little depressed.  The sadness was getting to me.  Do you remember the song by Prince “The Most Beautiful Girl In the World”?  Beautiful song, beautiful lyrics, but his appearance in the video is frightening.  The red outfit, heavy eyeliner, weird hair (and this is coming from a big admirer of Prince and his talents).  Our local gospel radio station just started airing a program in the evenings (not sure if it’s syndicated or not).  It comes on at a time when I am getting my toddler ready for bed.  Before this program came on getting my daughter ready for bed was peaceful.  Her room felt peaceful, she and I enjoyed the music coming from the radio, she went to sleep with no problems….there were no issues around bedtime.  Since this program started airing bedtime is not as peaceful as it once was.  The first week that the program was on she would be rowdy, uncooperative and everything was a struggle.  It went beyond typical toddler behavior.  I know my child and these actions were out of the norm for her.  I know the difference between her regular temper tantrums and something else being wrong.  This was different.  The first few nights I let it go and just dealt with it.  Then I realized that it was the music that was coming from the radio.  The loud talking, the “gospel” music with a hip hop beat.  It was throwing her off and making her rowdy.


----------



## Renewed1 (Jun 15, 2009)

I love all types of music from classical to R&B.  But as my walk with Christ increase, I find that I have to stop listening to certain music because of the lyrics or the beat of the music.  Is it easy......NO, do I give in.......SOMETIMES!  I'm not at the point whereas I want to delete the songs off my IPOD.  But I'm finding that I'm slowly but surely getting a grip.


----------



## Shimmie (Jun 15, 2009)

dkbeauti said:


> I strongly feel that Hip-Hop music is demonic, and it didn't take G.Craige to show me that.
> 
> It's just so nasty, vile, filthy, and disgusting, there is nothing apealling about it at all.
> 
> ...


Sounds like I feel... 

  It gets one of these in my home and family....


----------



## Shimmie (Jun 15, 2009)

mrselle said:


> Sometimes it’s not just the lyrics. A snake can make its way through the tiniest of cracks and so can the devil. Sometimes it’s not just the lyrics in music. The devil can come in through the beat or through the demeanor of the artist.
> 
> Karen Carpenter sang a lot of songs about love and her voice was so beautiful and clear….almost flawless and yet even in singing about love there is a sadness that comes across in her voice. I was listening to one of her songs not too long ago and I noticed that I became a little depressed. The sadness was getting to me.
> 
> ...


 
Music has a spirit...   It can be good.........................or bad.


----------



## goldielocs (Jun 16, 2009)

Hello all,

This thread is right on time.  While my husband and I listen to gospel hip-hop like Cross Movement and the Ambassador, we don't allow any other media in our home other than DVD's and monitored computer time.  There are way too many negative influences in the media and we have chosen block anything that may prove to cause our chidren to struggle spiritually.

I remember being around 12 and constantly thinking about sex or boys or men and it wasn't because my mother didn't take care of me. She was very strict. It was the music.  That was the only area she didn't guard. The song that initially messed me up was "I Wanna Sex You Up." I could not get it out of my head.  Between Silk, Boyz II Men and all those over groups who sang love ballads, I was messed up. For over 10 years, things relating to sex were a struggle for me until I stopped listening to the music.

Now that I'm raising my daughter, I see she loves music as well, so we monitor and allow her to listen to gospel, and children's songs. Another poster mentioned, "Garbage In, Garbage Out."  That is the truth.


----------



## Laela (Jun 23, 2009)

*It's NOT JUST A SONG!!!!!*

Some very popular hip-hop songs...
Should Christians have their Ear/Eye/Mouth gates exposed to these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl-wBh35cio&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUhYWo7iMjM&feature=related Hebrew and Arabic messages....

...and there's this, 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J46SIa9H4Y8&feature=related


----------



## chicacanella (Jun 23, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> I feel bad for you, and I am concerned with your message because it says several things... Are you so weak that you can't listen to India Arie telling people "I am not my hair" or Maxwell talkin about loving a woman? These are all parts of living, and I know God doesn't want you to be a robot, to lack feeling. Now if hearing "I am not my hair" causes you to "stumble" then I will pray for you, cuz that really just sucks, I couldn't live like that. And sorry if I sound a bit harsh, I am typing fast... I believe that music is a God-given therapy, and in my hardest times, listening to these such artists has made me feel better, and that doesnt mean I wasnt listening to gospel at the time either...


 
If she says she has personal convictions then all we can do is pray for her. And you picked out the best of their songs, she could've been talking about these lyrics: 

Every time you come around, something magnetic pulls me and I cant get out
Disoriented, I cant tell my up from down
All I know is that I wanna lay you down

Every time I let you in, abracadabra magic happens as we swim
Higher and higher finally we reach heaven
Come back to earth and then we do it all again
Yeah:..

or Maxwell's lyrics:

If I'll spend the nite with you 
you and me what we gonna do
a temporary nite for two
don't change a lonely afternoon

I know for an unmarried woman like myself, it's difficult to hear these songs over and over again without getting a little heated. So, I'll just support her in whatever struggle she may have through prayer.


----------



## chicacanella (Jun 23, 2009)

southernchocolate said:


> Sweetie don't feel bad for me or concerned. If anything, pray for me. I'm sure that you have read through this thread and have seen many others thoughts on this particular subject. And by reading this thread you should know that I'm not the only one who is feeling or has felt this way. We both know that India's "I am not my hair" is not her only song. She has many.
> 
> And yes, Maxwell does sing about loving a woman, but why in the world would who is trying to live wholehearted for the Lord, a woman who has chosen to abstain from sex until marriage listen to Maxwell sing about 'Til the Cops come knocking' and not feel the least bit guilty? *Yes at the moment my flesh is weak because at times I do get the 'urge'.* *Listening to Maxwell will not help that at all. I'm sure you've heard Jill Scott's 'Crown Royal and Ice'*
> *Nuff said.*
> ...


 
*Girl I feel you on this! I heard Crown Royal and the whole beat, lyrics just make you want to have sex. I was driving with one of my friend's one day and heard a song and the guy keeps saying something about having sex on his birthday. I go into the bookstore and they are playing the same song and then at the gym also. All he says is "Birthday sex" and "I want to go to your hooooo-useeee." They chop the words up but you can imagine some young person hearing this over and over again sex, sex, sex makes them want to have sex.*


----------



## Duchesse (Jun 24, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> *Girl I feel you on this! I heard Crown Royal and the whole beat, lyrics just make you want to have sex. I was driving with one of my friend's one day and heard a song and the guy keeps saying something about having sex on his birthday. I go into the bookstore and they are playing the same song and then at the gym also. All he says is "Birthday sex" and "I want to go to your hooooo-useeee." They chop the words up but you can imagine some young person hearing this over and over again sex, sex, sex makes them want to have sex.*



I *hate *that Birthday Song with a paaaassion. I was in class with a bunch of seventh graders (12 years old or so), and they were singing that song non-stop, I was about ready to smack some sense into those children!..vent.

I still listen to secular music, and would be lying if I said that I haven't bounced my head a time or two to J.Foxx's "Alcohol" and the like. I know in my mind and spirit that 95% of the music played on radio stations geared towards our people is pure junk..mindless negativity inspiring junk. I'm working on it...filtering out certain madness from my life. I know that if I feel guilty after bopping my shoulders and shaking my butt after listening to something, that it needs to be turned off.

I've come to be extremely concerned after working with youth and seeing how deep the musical influence is on them...music is most definitely a great force of spiritual manipulation for the good or bad.


----------

