# This is a Serious Thread: Hurt People, Hurt People



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 24, 2012)

There was a person who lost their life today at World Changers International Church, which happens to be the church that Creflo Dollar is the Pastor of.

My heart goes out to the family.  This is terrible.  This person was going to this church for 20 years and was on the praise team.  

People come from the world, get saved, go to church and still deal with issues.  My prayer is that people get healed...this is crazy.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/man-shot-at-creflo-dollars-world-changers-church/nSmdp/

*Suspect named in fatal shooting at World Changers Church*






                          Fulton County police                         
Police have a suspect, identified as Floyd Palmer, 52.

                   By Fran Jeffries
                                      The Atlanta Journal-Constitution 

Police have released the name  of a suspect in the fatal shooting of a man Wednesday morning at World  Changers Church International in College Park.

Floyd Palmer, 52,  is wanted in connection with the fatal shooting in the church’s chapel,  according to Fulton County police Cpl. Kay Lester. He is considered  armed and dangerous, Lester said.

Lester said Palmer, a former member of the church, “walked calmly into the church and left just as calmly,” after the shooting. Police  have not identified the victim who was shot around 10:30 a.m. and later  died. Channel 2 said the victim was a member of the church’s production  crew and a facilities maintenance manager at the church.

Creflo Dollar is the pastor of the megachurch. *He was not at the church at the time of the shooting, according to Lester.*

Police  are looking for a suspect who left the scene of the church, which is  located at 2500 Burdett Road. Police are looking for a black Subaru in  connection with the shooting, which reportedly occurred in the chapel  where the church hosts a Bible study every Wednesday. Karen Webb,  who had taken her mother to the church for Bible study, told the Atlanta  Journal-Constitution that she was told the victim was shot six times.
“I  brought my mother up here to go to church — every Wednesday she attends  Bible study. As soon as we get here I’m told someone has been shot,”  Webb said. “He was one of the praise leaders.” Webb said she was told  the shooter was a 20-year member of the church.

Antonio Wills, a former member who lives near the church, said the incident sends “a shock wave through the city.” Wills said his thoughts were on the man who was killed.“Hopefully everybody will pray for the family,” he said.

Fulton  County Police asked the school district to lock down Bethune Elementary  School and McNair Middle, according to schools spokeswoman Susan Hale.  She said the lockdown was lifted around 11 a.m. There was no disruption  to the schools or testing, she told Channel 2.

Dollar started  World Changers Ministries in 1986 with eight members, holding services  in the cafeteria of a local elementary school, according to the church’s  website. Its campus now occupies 81 acres, with services held in the  8,500-seat World Dome. Dollar is a regular on the Trinity Broadcasting  Network.


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## Shimmie (Oct 24, 2012)

Oh Dear Lord... 

Sis, I'll be back later to share; I wanted to acknowledge.  In the meantime, thank you for sharing this sensitive post.   I respect the seriousness of it.   

Love...


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## pebbles (Oct 24, 2012)

Oh Lord, why so much pain and sadness?  Sometimes it's almost too much. But GOD is still good. May HIS NAME be praised!


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## Laela (Oct 24, 2012)

This is so sad to read, may God comfort this man's family and the church family as a whole.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 24, 2012)

Thank you ladies...I knew you would understand why I posted this thread.

It breaks my heart to hear about this.  I'm in church ALOT and you just never know when someone wants to shoot it up.  I'm grateful to God for His protection over me and dh and my church family.



I have to get off for awhile...I am too sad over this.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 24, 2012)

From a sandrarose commenter:


Quote:
I just found out from my sister that the person who did the shooting at C.A. Dollars church is Minister Palmer. He was a founding member there. Don’t know why it happened but he came into the old chapel during corporate prayer. The minister that was shot was in the pulpit conducting with his eyes closed and never saw the shot coming… so sad.  

*UPDATED* Shooting Suspect Was Former Minister at Creflo Dollar’s World Changers Church : Sandra Rose


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 24, 2012)

Lord have mercy, this is sad ...people need to be delivered and set free ..I'll be praying too


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## Shimmie (Oct 24, 2012)

This grieves my heart.  This dear man shot for no reason and the heartache that his family and other loved ones must endure.  

In the name of Jesus' the devil must leave the members' lives of the Church alone.  He's done too much damage trying to take folks out.  I don't care what his strategies and methods are, they are rendered null and void in the name of Jesus.

satan's strategy is to get folks so scared that they'll stop going to Church and end up staying home and rely on TV Ministries.   That's not God.  This shooting is not of God.  I pray that we allow God to lead us and admonish our Pastors to take all necessary precautions for security.  

I'm sitting thinking that the shooter may end up committing suicide (as did Judas).  This is the pattern of most crimes such as this.  I pray that he doesn't as it will not resolve the issue nor bring closure to the hurting hearts of this tragedy.   

*To each of you... *

Not a hair on your head shall perish.  The angels of the Lord are encamped around, above and beneath, in front and in back of each of you and your loved ones, in the Name of Jesus and these are NOT empty, redundant words, they are not cliche'... it's the Word of God which SHALL not return unto Him void, for He is watching over His Word and watching over each of you, to protect you.   Praise God.

I thank God for the right timing of your footsteps.  You will be at the right place at the right time, never too early, never late.  But at the appointed time with the saving Grace of God all around you.   The angels' wings surround you, tip to tip, with no gaps in between; the enemy cannot get in; he shall have no place.   No matter where you are or where you have to be, The Lord Your God is protecting you and keeping you in all your ways.  

In Jesus' Name... Amen.


Enough is Enough!


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## pebbles (Oct 24, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> *To each of you... *
> 
> Not a hair on your head shall perish. The angels of the Lord are encamped around, above and beneath, in front and in back of each of you and your loved ones, in the Name of Jesus and these are NOT empty, redundant words, they are not cliche'... it's the Word of God which SHALL not return unto Him void, for He is watching over His Word and watching over each of you, to protect you. Praise God.
> 
> ...


 
Hallelujah!! I touch and agree in the spirit! Enough Is Enough! 

Thank-you, Jesus!!


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## Laela (Oct 24, 2012)

Shimmie, God bless you for that prayer....


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## Shimmie (Oct 24, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thank you ladies...I knew you would understand why I posted this thread.
> 
> It breaks my heart to hear about this.  I'm in church ALOT and you just never know when someone wants to shoot it up.  I'm grateful to God for His protection over me and dh and my church family.
> 
> ...


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## auparavant (Oct 24, 2012)

Minister Palmer?  Grudges and whatnot?  This is not how to deal with those.  What a shame.


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## Shimmie (Oct 24, 2012)

*Update:   The man has been apprehended:*

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/19904456/church-shooting-suspect-floyd-palmer?clienttype=printable


*FULTON COUNTY, Ga. - *

Police have arrested the suspect in a deadly shooting at a south Fulton County megachurch. FOX 5's Julia Reynolds reports that Atlanta Police officers arrested Floyd Palmer, 52, at Lenox Square in Buckhead just before 4 p.m.

Palmer is accused of a shooting and killing 39-year-old Gregory McDowell as he was leading services at World Changers International Church on Wednesday morning.  Fulton County Police Cpl. Kay Lester said Palmer walked into the chapel and started firing shots. McDowell was the only person hurt. McDowell was transported to a local hospital, where he later died.
Police say Palmer is a former church maintenance man who resigned from his position earlier this year.  

Lester said Palmer calmly left the scene after the shooting, possibly in a black 2000-2003 model Subaru station wagon with black tinted windows and dark black tires.

Authorities later tracked down Palmer at a Macy's in the Lenox Square mall after an Atlanta Police officer spotted the vehicle in the parking lot. He was taken into custody without incident, police said.

Officers transported Palmer to the Fulton County Major Case division, where he will be questioned and booked in the shooting.

The Associated Press reports that in 2001, Palmer was charged with attempted murder, assault and handgun charges in Baltimore.

Palmer was committed to a psychiatric hospital in 2004 after pleading not criminally responsible to lesser charges, the AP reports. He was released the following year, according to court records. 

Police do not know if McDowell was targeted, and there's no word on any relationship between Palmer and the victim.

The megachurch in south Fulton County is pastored by the Rev. Creflo Dollar. According to its website, it has more than 30,000 members. Dollar was not present when the shooting occurred.

-------------------------------

Why?   As much as I know better than to ask, yet I still ask, "Why"?    

A man standing in worship and prayer before the Lord and a devil walks in and takes his life.    

Jesus...  The Blood of Jesus, still prevails over us all.


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## Laela (Oct 24, 2012)

There was no beef between the two men... To go into a church and calmly shoot at someone praying, and calmly walk out and go have coffee at the mall, with no remorse... says a lot about the state of someone's soul. Lord have mercy... We never know what goes on in the hearts of hurt people... 

This young man was praying, with his eyes closed, when he was shot. He represented the church to that angry man. Trust God, always... I always believe nothing happens that God won't allow. He knows the reason. *Trust God !*


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## Shimmie (Oct 24, 2012)

Laela said:


> There was no beef between the two men... To go into a church and calmly shoot at someone praying, and calmly walk out and go have coffee at the mall, with no remorse... says a lot about the state of someone's soul. Lord have mercy... We never know what goes on in the hearts of hurt people...
> 
> This young man was praying, with his eyes closed, when he was shot. *He represented the church to that angry man. *
> 
> *Trust God, always... *I always believe nothing happens that God won't allow. He knows the reason. *Trust God !*



At the bolded...

This is how satan feels about prayer and the Church.   

However this man of God who was 'wounded' in his flesh, but not in his spirit,  was another Stephen, who while he was in prayer and worship, looked up and saw the Glory of God in the Heavens. 

The enemy is out to invoke fear in the Body of Worshippers, but he will not prevail, as the Church will only worship God all the more. 

This is another attack against Creflo Dollar's ministry.

This is also a call to the Church to put on our armour and continue in our faith all the more, for Jesus will not be defeated.    devils are commanded to run from us, not us from them; and they will indeed retreat in the name of Jesus.


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## Blackpearl1993 (Oct 25, 2012)

@ Shimmie & @ Laela...

Ladies, your words are wise and timely. This news deeply saddens me and I was thinking about how this is a second attack on this Creflo Dollar's ministry, but we cannot let this change our plan of action. We must pray even harder and attend our churches even more fervently. Satan wants us to stay home in fear on the Sabbath. 

Shimmie, thank you for the prayer for everyone's safety and the protection from God and His angels. God's word will not return to him void. I touch and agree for the safety of  everyone and every House of God.


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## Successfulmiss (Oct 25, 2012)

I went before the Lord in prayer last night and this morning. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the Lord brought it to my remembrance the story of Stephen and how he was stoned to death during a prayer:

Martyrdom of Stephen:
*Such arguing and directness as Stephen's could have but one result. Prejudiced and enraged as they were, the unanswerable arguments of Stephen, based on their own Scriptures, made them mad with fury, and doubtless through their demonstrations they stopped the speech. But Stephen, ansported with enthusiasm and inspiration, was vouchsafed a vision of the "glory of God," which he had mentioned in the beginning of his speech (Acts 7:2), and of Jesus, whose cause he had so gallantly defended (Acts 7:55). Stephen standing there, his gaze piercing into heaven, while time and human limitations seemed effaced for him, marks one of the most historic moments in the history of Israel, as his words constitute the most memorable testimony ever uttered in behalf of Christ: "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man"--the only place where this title is uttered by any other person than Jesus--"standing on the right hand of God" (Acts 7:56). Now the audience could restrain its rage no longer, and the catastrophe followed immediately. Contrary to Roman law and order they took Stephen, and without awaiting sentence against him, amid a tumultuous scene, stoned him to death, the punishment prescribed in Mosaic Law for a blasphemer (Dt 17:7; Lev 24:14-16). This recourse to lynch law may have been connived at by the Roman authorities, since the act was without political significance. It is noteworthy, however, that the Jewish legal forms were observed, as if to give to the violence the appearance of legality. Accordingly, Stephen was taken outside the city (Lev 24:14; compare Lk 4:29); the witnesses threw the first stone at him (compare Dt 17:7) after taking off their upper garments and laying them at the feet of a "young man named Saul" (Acts 7:58)--afterward Paul, now about 30 years old--who evidently had charge of the whole proceedings.*

http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/S/STEPHEN/

While this story is truly sad and I am deeply grieved, this story gave me comfort. It also reminded me that God is always with us and that He is still on the throne, that He is still faithful. That man that passed on was truly a great man of God and he passed with honor, dignity and in a spirit of martyrdom. I feel he passed on because of his faith in Christ after rereading this bible story. _I pray for God's continued protection, provision and Balm of Gilead to cover all of the Body of Christ. _Especially Pastor Creflo. He has had a trying year. God bless you all.


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## MrsHaseeb (Oct 25, 2012)

I truly have no words, this is sad. I will remember to cover all the believers everywhere in prayer today.

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


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## Laela (Oct 25, 2012)

Successfulmiss, beautiful post.. I'm in tears reading that....


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## Successfulmiss (Oct 25, 2012)

@Laela

God bless you! Although it is a tragedy, thank God for His word that comforts us and helps us to see that His plans for us are of good and not evil. 

I praise you Lord God for an outpouring of Your spirit like never before and I thank you Lord God for a revival in the land! I praise you Lord that people will not retreat from church and "worship at home"(which we should do anyway and go to church). But I thank You Father that You will indeed pour out Your spirit on all flesh in Jesus name! _We thank you Lord for Your word that says forsake NOT the assembling of ourselves(believers) together and we thank You Lord God that your word does not and will not come back void but that it will set out to do ALL that you have written into the universe and into the very fabric of time to accomplish!_ Lord God I thank you that what the enemy has tried to make for evil that You Father God in Heaven will turn it around for he God of those that love the Lord and are called according to Your divine purpose in Jesus name! We praise you for victory and an outpouring of Your Spirit like never before in these ends times! In Jesus name we thank You and we also thank you that You said the gates of Hades will not prevail against Your church! We stand united with the family of the victim and WCH because we are all one body. We even pray for the shooters family in Jesus name and that You mighty God would have mercy! We count it all done and we rejoice in true victory through Christ. In jesus name AMEN&AMEN!


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

Shimmie said:


>


Thank you for the love, Shimmie.  I needed it yesterday as I was feeling really bad about what happened to that minister.



Successfulmiss said:


> @Laela
> 
> God bless you! Although it is a tragedy, thank God for His word that comforts us and helps us to see that His plans for us are of good and not evil.
> 
> I praise you Lord God for an outpouring of Your spirit like never before and I thank you Lord God for a revival in the land! I praise you Lord that people will not retreat from church and "worship at home"(which we should do anyway and go to church). But I thank You Father that You will indeed pour out Your spirit on all flesh in Jesus name! _We thank you Lord for Your word that says forsake NOT the assembling of ourselves(believers) together and we thank You Lord God that your word does not and will not come back void but that it will set out to do ALL that you have written into the universe and into the very fabric of time to accomplish!_ Lord God I thank you that what the enemy has tried to make for evil that You Father God in Heaven will turn it around for he God of those that love the Lord and are called according to Your divine purpose in Jesus name! We praise you for victory and an outpouring of Your Spirit like never before in these ends times! In Jesus name we thank You and we also thank you that You said the gates of Hades will not prevail against Your church! We stand united with the family of the victim and WCH because we are all one body. We even pray for the shooters family in Jesus name and that You mighty God would have mercy! We count it all done and we rejoice in true victory through Christ. In jesus name AMEN&AMEN!


Thank you for this prayer, sis! God bless you!


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## Successfulmiss (Oct 25, 2012)

Amen Nice & Wavy

*I am so grateful for this forum. *It gives me a chance to fellowship even more when I am not at church .


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

Successfulmiss said:


> Amen @Nice & Wavy
> 
> *I am so grateful for this forum. *It gives me a chance to fellowship even more when I am not at church .


And I'm glad you are here 

I love the little girl in your siggy!  She looks like she is saying "Yesssss, Lord!"


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## SummerSolstice (Oct 25, 2012)

I want an explanation. I don't understand 
And I think its time Creflo stepped down. There is something VERY wrong going on in that church. I don't care how large it is, there is a spirit there that does not belong.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 25, 2012)

Update:!!!

Posted: 8:32 p.m. Wednesday, Oct. 24, 2012




John Spink, [email protected] 
Clayton County police officers, P. Malautea and J. Williams (right) monitor the apartment of murder suspect, Floyd Palmer Thursday, Oct. 25, 2012 at The Reserve at Garden Lake apartments in Riverdale after police searched the premises overnight.
View Larger 

John Spink, [email protected] 
Residents leave the apartment building at The Reserve at Garden Lake apartments in Riverdale where police monitored the apartment of murder suspect, Floyd Palmer, 52, after searching the premises Thursday, Oct. 25, 2012.
View Larger 

Fulton County Sheriff's Office 
Police say Floyd Palmer, 52, walked into a prayer service Oct. 24, 2012, at the College Park megachurch founded by the Rev. Creflo Dollar and opened fire, killing Greg McDowell, 39.

Arrest made in shooting at Creflo Dollar's megachurchSponsored LinksBy Fran Jeffries

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution 

The suspect in a fatal shooting at World Changers Church International waived his first court appearance Thursday.

Floyd Palmer, 52, had been scheduled to appear in magistrate court at 11 a.m. at the Fulton County jail to hear the charges against him and make a formal request for bond, but he declined to appear.

Meanwhile, police worked into the early morning hours Thursday, combing through Palmer’s apartment in Clayton County.

Palmer was arrested Wednesday afternoon and charged with the fatal shooting of 39-year-old Greg McDowell at the College Park church founded by televangelist Creflo Dollar. It was the second time Palmer had been charged with shooting a man in a church; he pleaded guilty to shooting a man a decade ago in Baltimore and was committed to a mental health facility there.

Police searched Palmer’s apartment at the Reserve at Garden Lake apartment complex in Riverdale Wednesday night and Thursday morning. They removed several items from the apartment, but it was not immediately clear what they took out.

Resident Hoover Sirmans told the Journal-Constitution he arrived home from his job as an EMT in Coweta County around 11 p.m. Wednesday to find the complex locked down by police. He said he went to a resident’s house to sleep and was able to go back home Thursday morning.

Sirmans said he knew Palmer only slightly, “just a hey-how-ya-doing basis … He seemed like a regular old guy.”

When he found out Palmer had been arrested in connection with the shooting, he said, “‘Wow’ is the only word I could say.”

Palmer calmly walked into a prayer service Wednesday morning and opened fire as 20 to 25 people watched in horror. McDowell fell mortally wounded and Palmer, a former church employee, “left just as calmly” as he entered, Fulton County police spokeswoman Cpl. Kay Lester said.

The suspect left in a black Subaru station wagon and was in the vortex of a massive police search until he was arrested without incident at Lenox Square in Buckhead just before 4 p.m.

Palmer, who resigned from the church in August for personal reasons, had been charged previously with attempted murder. In 2004 he pleaded guilty to assault charges and was deemed “not criminally responsible” and was committed, according to Maryland court records. Other records indicate that shooting occurred in 2001.

Christine Singleterry, Palmer’s former mother-in-law, said Palmer shot a man following an argument at a Baltimore mosque. “He got him to go outside and then shot him in the parking lot,” said Singleterry. She said he served about 18 months in the mental facility and was released. She said the victim remains paralyzed.

Singleterry said her daughter, who is now deceased, divorced Palmer in the 1990s because he was abusive. They had two daughters who are now grown.

“He was mixed up and argumentative,” she said. Family members said he moved to Atlanta several years ago.

Mack Simpson, who is married to Palmer’s sister, was shocked to hear the news. “That’s a shame,” he said. “This is the second time.”

McDowell, a father of two young children, was a member of the church’s production crew and a facilities maintenance manager there, police said.

Karen Webb, who had taken her mother to the church for Bible study, said she was told the victim was shot six times.

“I brought my mother up here to go to church — every Wednesday she attends Bible study. As soon as we get here I’m told someone has been shot,” Webb said. “He was one of the praise leaders.”

Dollar, a popular televangelist, started World Changers Ministries in 1986 with eight members, holding services in the cafeteria of a local elementary school, according to the church’s website. Its campus now occupies 81 acres, with services held in the 8,500-seat World Dome. Dollar is a regular on the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

Attempts to reach Dollar were unsuccessful. Ken Terry, a pastor at the church, called McDowell a “tremendous leader, role model and father.”

He said McDowell had been a longtime member of the church. “He was faithful for a number of years. We have known him for years. Since he was a little kid.” Terry spoke of McDowell’s two sons. “He spent a tremendous amount of time with them. He was the model dad.”

Throughout the afternoon, mourners streamed into McDowell’s home, many carrying food. Marlene Guice, a neighbor, said she saw the victim Wednesday morning while she was in her yard and he was on his way to church. “I waved at him like I always do,” she said.

Guice, who has lived two doors from the McDowells for two years, said she met him while walking her dogs in the neighborhood. “They stayed to themselves, but were very nice.”

McDowell was described as an uplifting man, as evidenced by postings on his Facebook site.

In 2010, McDowell wrote, “One of the most valuable assets we can possess is a positive attitude towards our lives. Your attitude is one of the first things people notice when they come in contact with you. Make it good.”

Another time, he wrote, “Life’s too short not to enjoy it.”


http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/suspect-in-killing-at-world-changers-church-has-cr/nSnBM/


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 25, 2012)

this wasn't the first time that he shot some at church, he is unstable ...


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> I want an explanation. I don't understand
> *And I think its time Creflo stepped down*. There is something VERY wrong going on in that church. I don't care how large it is, there is a spirit there that does not belong.


You should write him and share how you feel with him.


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 25, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> I want an explanation. I don't understand
> And I think its time Creflo stepped down. There is something VERY wrong going on in that church. I don't care how large it is, there is a spirit there that does not belong.


 

Why do u think it would be Creflo's fault?
I am not a fan of his, but I don't want to go pointing fingers either

SummerSolstice


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 25, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> *It was the second time Palmer had been charged with shooting a man in a church;* he pleaded guilty to shooting a man a decade ago in Baltimore and was committed to a mental health facility there.


 

. Yea. This man had issues. I know that this man has done wrong, but I do have some compassion for him because it is something deeper going on. God help him...


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> this wasn't the first time that he shot some at church, he is unstable ...


So sad....sad indeed.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 25, 2012)

I pray that we learn to be merciful as God is merciful...we have done all manner of things and have received forgiveness, we actually expect it and so we must learn to extend the hand have mercy...


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 25, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> I pray that we learn to be merciful as God is merciful...we have done all manner of things and have received forgiveness, we actually expect it and so we must learn to extend the hand have mercy...


 
Yes . The bible says we wrestle not with flesh and blood. This warfare is spiritual and people have just yielded themselves over to evil spirits. Thats why only the blood of Jesus can make us free...


2 Timothy 2:26
 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, *who are taken captive by him at his will.*


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## SummerSolstice (Oct 25, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> Why do u think it would be Creflo's fault?
> I am not a fan of his, but I don't want to go pointing fingers either



I'm not blaming him LucieLoo12.
This is a shepherd of a flock. He must be held accountable for his leadership. All of the strange financial issues, the gay stuff with the young boys, and now a shooting? Too much is happening under his watch, and he was directly involved with most of the foolishness.
Its just like when a business has so many issues... the problem is management most of the time. Something here is not right and I think leadership has much to do with it.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> I pray that we learn to be merciful as God is merciful...we have done all manner of things and have received forgiveness, we actually expect it and so we must learn to extend the hand have mercy...


Love the wisdom and your heart!


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## SummerSolstice (Oct 25, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> You should write him and share how you feel with him.



I really thought about this... I'm not sure if that would do anything. Who am I, ya kno? I'm nobody.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> I'm not blaming him @LucieLoo12.
> This is a shepherd of a flock. He must be held accountable for his leadership. All of the strange financial issues, the gay stuff with the young boys, and now a shooting? Too much is happening under his watch, and he was directly involved with most of the foolishness.
> Its just like when a business has so many issues... *the problem is management most of the time. Something here is not right and I think leadership has much to do with it*.


Are you actually blaming this on the leadership of this church?

I can't.......

I feel this way, IF he is doing something, its up to the LORD to take him out of his position.  This thread is not for this here....not now, please.


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 25, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> I'm not blaming him @LucieLoo12.
> This is a shepherd of a flock. He must be held accountable for his leadership. All of the strange financial issues, the gay stuff with the young boys, and now a shooting? Too much is happening under his watch, and he was directly involved with most of the foolishness.
> Its just like when a business has so many issues... the problem is management most of the time. Something here is not right and I think leadership has much to do with it.


 

Oh ok. I apologize because of the content of the thread and your post, I thought you was saying it was his fault the shooting happened. Sorry the assumption..


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> I really thought about this... I'm not sure if that would do anything. Who am I, ya kno? I'm nobody.


Well, then I wouldn't say what you said unless you are ready to tell him from your mouth to his ears.

There are times I HAVE to tell someone something whether they like it or not, or whether I feel like it may or may not do something.


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 25, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Are you actually blaming this on the leadership of this church?
> 
> I can't.......
> 
> I feel this way, IF he is doing something, its up to the LORD to take him out of his position. This thread is not for this here....not now, please.


 

I THINK she was just making a generalization of the issues of the church. I don't believe she was blaming Creflo for the ACTUAL shooting...I don't think


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> I THINK she was just making a generalization of the issues of the church. I don't believe she was blaming Creflo for the ACTUAL shooting...I don't think


Doesn't matter. This thread is about the shooting, not what Creflo or his leadership or the church is doing or not doing.

ETA: We must as CHRISTIANS learn to walk in compassion and mercy...always being reminded that it could be us at anytime!


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 25, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Doesn't matter. This thread is about the shooting, not what Creflo or his leadership or the church is doing or not doing.
> 
> ETA: We must as CHRISTIANS learn to walk in compassion and mercy...always being reminded that it could be us at anytime!


 

ok....


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## SummerSolstice (Oct 25, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Are you actually blaming this on the leadership of this church?
> 
> I can't.......
> 
> I feel this way, IF he is doing something, its up to the LORD to take him out of his position.  This thread is not for this here....not now, please.



I'm not blaming it on him. I just think where there is a smoke there is a fire. 



LucieLoo12 said:


> I THINK she was just making a generalization of the issues of the church. I don't believe she was blaming Creflo for the ACTUAL shooting...I don't think



Right, he didn't do it. But I really think when you open certain doors anything can walk in. Thats all I'm saying. There's too much going on with this church to not point it out. 
I think the shooting is just an unfortunate symptom of the illness.


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## SummerSolstice (Oct 25, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Doesn't matter. This thread is about the shooting, not what Creflo or his leadership or the church is doing or not doing.
> 
> ETA: We must as CHRISTIANS learn to walk in compassion and mercy...always being reminded that it could be us at anytime!



I am certain Christ has forgiven the shooter for this whole incident. I am certain Christ has already forgiven Creflo for everything just as He has forgiven the rest of us.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> I'm not blaming it on him. I just think where there is a smoke there is a fire.
> 
> Right, he didn't do it. But I really think when you open certain doors anything can walk in. Thats all I'm saying. There's too much going on with this church to not point it out.
> I think the shooting is just an unfortunate symptom of the illness.



sigh, ok.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> I am certain Christ has forgiven the shooter for this whole incident. I am certain Christ has already forgiven Creflo for everything just as He has forgiven the rest of us.


Um hmm...ok.


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## Successfulmiss (Oct 25, 2012)

SummerSolstice

I think your referring to Eddie Long. Creflo never had media coverage about him and some little boys, unless I'm mistaken. Yes, he is the head of the ministry but the Bible also said we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Phil 2:12 That shooter stands alone before Christ not with Creflo. He is a mere human. To be honest all of the body of Christ needs to be on alert. Look at Pastor Tims(RIP) old church, Eddie Long, Paula White and many others. The Church as a whole is in conflict and we have to search ourselves and repent wholeheartedly.


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## SummerSolstice (Oct 25, 2012)

Successfulmiss said:


> @SummerSolstice
> 
> *I think your referring to Eddie Long. Creflo never had media coverage about him and some little boys, unless I'm mistaken. *Yes, he is the head of the ministry but the Bible also said we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Phil 2:12 That shooter stands alone before Christ not with Creflo. He is a mere human. *To be honest all of the body of Christ needs to be on alert. Look at Pastor Tims(RIP) old church, Eddie Long, Paula White and many others. *The Church as a whole is in conflict and we have to search ourselves and repent wholeheartedly.



Girl! I swore they were the same person! I don't keep up with all this mess 

I agree with everything you just said.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

Thank you, Successfulmiss.


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## Successfulmiss (Oct 25, 2012)

SummerSolstice

I was confused at first too! Then I just look back at everything that has been going on in the "megachurches" and body of Christ as a whole and we all need to be on our face on the floor repenting before the Father. Even if we didn't do anything! We are all one body and we must ask the Lord for mercy. I am loving this thread! It feels good to get this off my spirit!


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 25, 2012)

yep. We may not be shooting up people. But we definitely have some things in our lives we need to get right too.


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## Laela (Oct 25, 2012)

^^ Certainly is true LucieLoo... but I don't see the need for that comment. It goes without saying we all need to be right with God.  

To address what N&W mentioned earlier....

It's my understanding that church leaders asked this minister to remove himself from an leadership role, so can get his stuff together, take care of his personal issues first and get better. That is the responsible thing for leadership to do.  Not everyone is *capable of handling any type of rejection *and are walking time-bombs.  

Two families, a church and an entire community are affected. Where is the compassion?  When other Christians hurt, we as members of the Body of Christ, hurt. It's not ever THAT serious until it happens in our back yard or at our own church. We're not supposed to be "outside, looking in" if other brothers and sisters are attacked.  God forbid...  

*ALL churches *have demons and wrong spirits walking into them at any given time. The devil goes to church, too. If you don't believe that, then I can't help you understand.

We don't ever know what someone sitting in the pew right next to us in church is going through. We all have our burdens to bear; but mental illness is not something to play with.   



Nice & Wavy said:


> Well, then I wouldn't say what you said unless you are ready to tell him from your mouth to his ears.
> 
> 
> 
> As a minister, there are times I HAVE to tell someone something whether they like it or not, or whether I feel like it may or may not do something.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

Laela said:


> ^^ Certainly is true LucieLoo... but I don't see the need for that comment. It goes without saying we all need to be right with God.
> 
> To address what N&W mentioned earlier....
> 
> ...


Lord, thank you for the Body of Christ!

Thank you, Laela


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 25, 2012)

Laela said:


> ^^ Certainly is true LucieLoo... but I don't see the need for that comment. It goes without saying we all need to be right with God.
> 
> To address what N&W mentioned earlier....
> 
> ...


 
True, first devil Jesus cast out was in the church...


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## Laela (Oct 25, 2012)

Amen..and that man was delivered when Jesus told _him_ to leave... even impure spirits obey Him when He speaks. 



LucieLoo12 said:


> True, first devil Jesus cast out was in the church...


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

Here is some additional info:



> *Creflo Dollar addresses congregation over shooting*
> 
> Pastor Creflo Dollar addressed his congregation Wednesday night over the shooting that took place in his church.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Oct 25, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Here is some additional info:



This is so painful, just reading the words that it was not God's will for a man to be taken from his wife and family.   This hurts so much.  I'm praying for his wife's strength.    Here she has a man of God for a husband who not only loves her and loves their children but the man loved God and lived it.   

Forgiveness comes hard; I have to be honest about my feelings.  I'll say why:

How many women are struggling for their husbands to be right with God, be they Black or White or Mixed, it's the same all over the world, that women of God are praying for their husbands to be spiritual leader in their household, and yet we have one who has been taken out.   

I'm so 'mad' right now.      I'll get it straight, I promise and I apologize to you Precious Wavy and to my sisters and brothers in Christ Jesus. 

At the same time, God allows me to see the heart of this man who died, with his eyes closed in reverence, in prayer unto the Lord, speaking  _"Hallowed be thy Name"... _this dear man was in love with Jesus.


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## PinkPebbles (Oct 25, 2012)

My prayers are with the families and the body of Christ. And I truly hope the shooter receives psychological help.

Ladies, my spirit is unsettled about this tragedy. I truly feel like there is a missing link or maybe I'm just in shock....


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 25, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> This is so painful, just reading the words that it was not God's will for a man to be taken from his wife and family.   This hurts so much.  I'm praying for his wife's strength.    Here she has a man of God for a husband who not only loves her and loves their children but the man loved God and lived it.
> 
> Forgiveness comes hard; I have to be honest about my feelings.  I'll say why:
> 
> ...


  



PinkPebbles said:


> My prayers are with *the families and the body of Christ.* And I truly hope the shooter receives psychological help.
> 
> Ladies, my spirit is unsettled about this tragedy. I truly feel like there is a missing link or maybe I'm just in shock....


I appreciate you saying that because it does affect the whole body.


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## Laela (Oct 30, 2012)

Please keep in your prayers congregants of this church in N Texas, who lost their pastor to church violence yesterday.. 


*Police: Pastor of North Texas Church Killed* 
By ANGELA K. BROWN Associated Press 
FOREST HILL, Texas October 29, 2012 (AP)

A North Texas pastor was killed Monday by an attacker who rammed a car into a church wall, chased the pastor and beat him with an electric guitar, police said.

Police in Forest Hill, a suburb of Fort Worth, did not say why the unidentified suspect attacked the Rev. Danny Kirk Sr., the founding pastor of Greater Sweethome Missionary Baptist Church.

The suspect also died a short time after being taken into custody.

Forest Hill Police Chief Dan Dennis said the suspect drove his car into a church wall before noon Monday, apparently on purpose. The suspect got out of the car and began to attack the pastor in the parking lot before chasing him into the church, Dennis said. The church secretary hid and called 911, Dennis said.

Police arrived to find the suspect assaulting Kirk with an electric guitar that they believe was already inside the church, Dennis said. An officer used a Taser on the suspect, handcuffed him and put him in the back of a patrol car.

By then, Kirk had died, Dennis said. A maintenance worker who tried to help Kirk was injured and taken to an area hospital. His condition was unknown.

Dennis said the suspect was found unresponsive shortly after being detained and was pronounced dead at a local hospital.

Dennis said he didn't know if the suspect knew Kirk, attended the church or why he might have attacked the pastor.

Hours after the incident, hundreds of people remained outside the church, where crime-scene tape was wrapped around a small statue of Jesus near the wrecked car. Some hugged each other and cried, while others recalled Kirk as a dedicated minister who also had a bubbly personality and knew the all names of the several-hundred church members.

"He really was concerned about our souls," Montoya McNeil, a member for eight years, said as she wiped away tears. "You looked forward to being here. ... I'm not asking God why, because I know where he (Kirk) is, but we won't get those big bear hugs and those great sermons anymore."

According to former Forest Hill mayor James Gosey, Kirk started the church years ago in a strip mall before building the red-brick church.

Kirk was also an unofficial volunteer chaplain who occasionally counseled members of a local high school football team, Fort Worth school district spokesman Clint Bond said.

"Our hearts are heavy right now," said Reginald Wilson, an associate minister at the church.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 30, 2012)

^^I'm praying for his family and congregation ...


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## Blackpearl1993 (Oct 30, 2012)

I am still praying for both of the churches that have suffered such violent attacks recently. My heart is deeply saddended and I feel angry that people have so little respect for the house of the Lord and those who choose to serve the Lord. I think I was still in shock about what happened at Pastor Dollar's church and then to see the news about the attack in Texas.....I just feel nauseous. No one deserves this!


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 30, 2012)

Blackpearl1993 said:


> I am still praying for both of the churches that have suffered such violent attacks recently. My heart is deeply saddended and I feel angry that people have so little respect for the house of the Lord and those who choose to serve the Lord. I think I was still in shock about what happened at Pastor Dollar's church and then to see the news about the attack in Texas.....I just feel nauseous. *No one deserves this!*


Amen!  Thank you for this post.


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## Laela (Oct 30, 2012)

These are the times I am thankful to know God's ways are not our ways...
Amen to that!



Blackpearl1993 said:


> I am still praying for both of the churches that have suffered such violent attacks recently. My heart is deeply saddended and I feel angry that people have so little respect for the house of the Lord and those who choose to serve the Lord. I think I was still in shock about what happened at Pastor Dollar's church and then to see the news about the attack in Texas.....I just feel nauseous. No one deserves this!


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