# Rick Warren Squashes Rumors;



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Mar 5, 2014)

*Says He Strongly Opposes Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Law*









(Photo: The Nines Conference screen grab)
Pastor Rick Warren
*By Anugrah Kumar, Christian Post Contributor*

March 3, 2014|8:33 am
Pastor Rick Warren on Sunday strongly condemned rumors that he supported a controversial law passed in Uganda last week that allows those convicted of homosexuality to be imprisoned for life. The pastor of California's Saddleback Church underscored that he is against the law today just as he was in 2009 when it was first proposed.

"Only fools believe everything they hear!" Warren wrote, quoting Proverbs 14:15.

The rumor started four years ago when Rachel Maddow of MSNBC "falsely accused me of supporting the law – without ever bothering to check with me if it was true," he explained on his Facebook page.

Last week, when the "bad law" passed, the rumors popped up again, he noted. Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni signed the anti-homosexuality bill into law, stating, "No study has shown you can be homosexual by nature. That's why I have agreed to sign the bill."

While homosexuality was already illegal in the country, the newly passed law expands the criminalization of same-sex relations – "aggravated homosexuality" is punishable by life imprisonment and the "promotion" of homosexuality is also criminalized. It also requires citizens to report to the police anyone suspected of being gay.


"Outsiders cannot dictate to us. This is our country. I advise friends from the west not to make this an issue, because if they make it an issue the more they will lose," Museveni added. 

Pastor Warren re-released a video he had sent to Uganda's pastors when the law was proposed in 2009.

In it, he states, "While we can never deny or water down what God's Word clearly teaches about sexuality, at the same time the church must stand to protect the dignity of all individuals – as Jesus did and commanded all of us to do."

"Jesus reaffirmed what Moses wrote that marriage is intended to be between one man and one woman committed to each other for life," the megachurch pastor says, and then adds, "Jesus also taught us that the greatest commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves."
Warren says there are five reasons why he is speaking about the law in Uganda.

"First, the potential law is unjust, extreme and un-Christian toward homosexuals, requiring the death penalty (the provision that was in the original draft of the bill) in some cases … Second, the law would force pastors to report their pastoral conversations with homosexuals to authorities … Third, it would have a chilling effect on your ministry to the hurting … Fourth, all life, no matter how humble or broken, whether unborn or dying, is precious to God … Finally, the freedom to make moral choices and our right to free expression are gifts endowed by God."

Warren stresses that his role is always pastoral, not political. His ministry's PEACE Plan is an effort "to mobilize Christians around the world to address … the "five global giants" of spiritual emptiness, corrupt leadership, poverty, disease, and illiteracy by promoting reconciliation, equipping servant leaders, assisting the poor, caring for the sick, and educating the next generation."

Responding to rumors that he was behind the law in Uganda, Warren says he's never met or spoken to the president of Uganda.
Warren adds that when he heard about the proposed law, he wrote to the most influential leader in that country, the Anglican archbishop of Uganda, and shared his opposition and concern. "He wrote me back, saying that he, too, was opposed to the death penalty for homosexuals."

The Saddleback pastor also says he opposes the criminalization of homosexuality. "The freedom to make moral choices is endowed by God. Since God gives us that freedom, we must protect it for all, even when we disagree with their choices. All life, no matter how humble or broken, whether unborn or dying, is precious to God."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/r...pposes-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-law-115483/


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## Shimmie (Mar 5, 2014)

The measures in Uganda are drastic towards gays; extremely drastic. I have to say that they are inhuman. I saw a documentary and the fright that this gay man lived there was beyond any fear I've ever known. No one deserves to live with that type of fear even if they are gay. 

What bothers me about Rick Warren is that he appears 'fearful' of media backlash and he is not taking a full stand upon God's Word when he says _"we must protect it for all"._ I understand having 'free will' to choose, but when Warren speaks of protection, is he projecting that he believes in the protection of 'gay rights'? Where this group sets out to teach innocent children in public schools that gay is normal when clearly it is not. Or that it's okay to sue Christians who have legitimate businesses who stand on their principals to not support gay marriage. 

Warren needs to be more definitive with this. And Rachel Maddox needs to keep her mouth shut. She's showing her stupidity. She's showing her lack of credibility by falsely accusing Warren of a very serious offense without obtaining not only factual proof of it, but to even give him the courtesy of an interview. Oh' but she's gay which gives her rights to lie on Christians just to stir up mess farting from her behind. Yeah, that's just about what she's stirring up. Like her father the devil, the truth is far from her.


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## Blackpearl1993 (Mar 6, 2014)

Shimmie said:


> The measures in Uganda are drastic towards gays; extremely drastic. I have to say that they are inhuman. I saw a documentary and the fright that this gay man lived there was beyond any fear I've ever known. No one deserves to live with that type of fear even if they are gay.
> 
> *What bothers me about Rick Warren is that he appears 'fearful' of media backlash and he is not taking a full stand upon God's Word when he says "we must protect it for all". I understand having 'free will' to choose, but when Warren speaks of protection, is he projecting that he believes in the protection of 'gay rights'? Where this group sets out to teach innocent children in public schools that gay is normal when clearly it is not. Or that it's okay to sue Christians who have legitimate businesses who stand on their principals to not support gay marriage. *
> 
> Warren needs to be more definitive with this. And Rachel Maddox needs to keep her mouth shut. She's showing her stupidity. She's showing her lack of credibility by falsely accusing Warren of a very serious offense without obtaining not only factual proof of it, but to even give him the courtesy of an interview. Oh' but she's gay which gives her rights to lie on Christians just to stir up mess farting from her behind. Yeah, that's just about what she's stirring up. Like her father the devil, the truth is far from her.



Thjis is exactly what I thought when I read that. In all honesty, this isn't the first time I have questioned Warren's stance on God's word. I'm simply not sure about him. 

As for Rachel Maddow (sp?), she has always had an agenda. If you don't agree with her liberal stance, you are simply wrong. She is a troubled woman who needs to come to Jesus.


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## Shimmie (Mar 6, 2014)

Blackpearl1993 said:


> Thjis is exactly what I thought when I read that. In all honesty, this isn't the first time I have questioned Warren's stance on God's word. I'm simply not sure about him.
> 
> As for Rachel Maddow (sp?), she has always had an agenda. If you don't agree with her liberal stance, you are simply wrong. She is a troubled woman who needs to come to Jesus.


 
I spelled her name wrong...  

Question:  Isn't it a liability for a reporter/journalist to falsely accuse someone without evidence to substantiate it?   Rachel actually broke a law for this is very serious accusation.   She is willfully calling Pastor Warren a murderer and causing misconceptions about him in criminal manner.   I would think that she would have been fired by MSNBC for telling such a lie.     

Other journalists / correspondents have been fired for less such as opposition to gay marriage on their facebook/twitter pages.   Who was it, Roland Martin who was fired a year or so ago for opposing gay marriage? 

If nothing else, gays are the most discriminating groups of people that I have ever witnessed and that is not an exaggeration or a lie.


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## FreeIndeed (Mar 7, 2014)

I can understand that Rick Warren felt it necessary to refute false rumors that he supported unjust and brutal laws against homosexuality. However, considering the tenure of his work -- I truly wonder if a part of the reason why he came forward to take a strong stance against these laws, is because he's a prominent proponent of interfaith unity and inclusionism, and therefore, he doesn't want to offend homosexuals and their powerful allies in the media and government. He wants to win them over -- not to salvation in Jesus Christ -- but to his global P.E.A.C.E. plan.

Interfaith leaders believe that everyone (including sexual deviants) should unite and work together as 'one big happy family.' So, in an attempt to make homosexuals feel comfortable and acceptable before God -- they either take a soft compromising position on homosexuality (like Warren or Joel Osteen) or they blatantly support it with pro-homosexual theology and vilify those who consider it a sin (like Carlton Pearson, Shelby Spong, or Desmond Tutu). 

I do believe that ministers of Jesus Christ should take a strong stance against any sort of barbaric inhumane laws. But more importantly, they should take a strong uncompromising stance on the word of God and not compromise for the sake of "global peace" and "unity" with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. Warren consistently dilutes the Gospel, denies John 14:6, and ignores the Scriptural prohibition not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.


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## Galadriel (Mar 7, 2014)

FreeIndeed said:


> Roman Catholicism...





Really? 

I see you only have a few posts here, but you are aware that several of us posting here in CF are Catholics?


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## MrsHaseeb (Mar 7, 2014)

FreeIndeed said:


> I can understand that Rick Warren felt it necessary to refute false rumors that he supported unjust and brutal laws against homosexuality. However, considering the tenure of his work -- I truly wonder if a part of the reason why he came forward to take a strong stance against these laws, is because he's a prominent proponent of interfaith unity and inclusionism, and therefore, he doesn't want to offend homosexuals and their powerful allies in the media and government. He wants to win them over -- not to salvation in Jesus Christ -- but to his global P.E.A.C.E. plan.
> 
> Interfaith leaders believe that everyone (including sexual deviants) should unite and work together as 'one big happy family.' So, in an attempt to make homosexuals feel comfortable and acceptable before God -- they either take a soft compromising position on homosexuality (like Warren or Joel Osteen) or they blatantly support it with pro-homosexual theology and vilify those who consider it a sin (like Carlton Pearson, Shelby Spong, or Desmond Tutu).
> 
> I do believe that ministers of Jesus Christ should take a strong stance against any sort of barbaric inhumane laws. But more importantly, they should take a strong uncompromising stance on the word of God and not compromise for the sake of "global peace" and "unity" with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. Warren consistently dilutes the Gospel, denies John 14:6, and ignores the Scriptural prohibition not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.



Amen FreeIndeed. Rick Warren is certainly not speaking out against the inhumane violence toward homosexuals because he cares about violence. He is doing it to gain their support. After all, if he was concerned about inhumane acts committed against humans he would speak out against all the brutal acts of violence towards the saints in other countries. Not one of these "leaders" have done that, nor have they tried to bring awareness to the people they lead about such things.


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## FreeIndeed (Mar 7, 2014)

Galadriel said:


> Really?
> 
> I see you only have a few posts here, but you are aware that several of us posting here in CF are Catholics?



Hello Galadriel,

Yes, I'm aware that there are Catholics here. Why do you ask?


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## JaneBond007 (Mar 7, 2014)

FreeIndeed said:


> *I do believe that ministers of Jesus Christ should take a strong stance *againstany sort of barbaric inhumane laws. But more importantly, they should take a strong uncompromising stance* on the word of God and not compromise for the sake of "global peace" and "unity" with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, etc.* Warren consistently dilutes the Gospel, denies John 14:6, and ignores the Scriptural prohibition not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.



FreeIndeed

Recently, I was reading an article on witchcraft and the catholic apologist's  response to family members in it.  In general, the catholic approach is to genuinely look at someone's faith from a perspective of truth and not speculation and disdain.  Afterall, we know that there are universal truths and the prefigurement of Christ in times long before His incarnation (ex., g-ddess and child figures, Hindu personalities and names of the g-ds, virgin births etc.) and that these truths are revealed to differing people and expressed through their understanding of the cosmos.  

Well, in the article, the question was raised as to what a catholic should say/believe about someone in witchcraft if sharing the gospel (implied) - not forcibly, but within an equal conversation - and it was said that we should know the _*truths*_ based upon that other perspective or in this particular case, no assumption (that wiccans do not believe in Satan).  So, charging them with worshipping Satan would be a falsehood:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Link
_If someone you know is dabbling in witchcraft, here are five things you should know before starting a conversation with him. [excerpted]

*Witches do not believe in Satan.*_
_*Witchcraft and Wicca are not synonyms.*_
_*Witches question authority.*_...

*(Thus, the perfect response is to be prepared and to examine self first because, )*
_***Not all are called to be apologists.* If you are not  intellectually and spiritually prepared to answer the claims of  witchcraft, leave such work to others. Search out knowledgeable  Catholics with whom your loved one can speak._

_...
***Prepare oneself*
...
***Pray*
..._
-------------------------------------------

In other words, know what you're talking about and by all mean, recognize all humans are His.  We catholics pride ourselves on that and are reminded over and over again to make sure we know the truth by staying true to the teachings of the Magisterium, which is basically the authority to teach the universal church the truth of Christ and to bring us all in union with one another.  I do hope this analogy might be of value to you.


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## Shimmie (Mar 7, 2014)

FreeIndeed said:


> Hello Galadriel,
> 
> Yes, I'm aware that there are Catholics here. Why do you ask?


 
Hi FreeIndeed...

First I welcome you to our Christian Forum which is filled with many, many, hearts of women (and men) who truly love the Lord.   This includes our Catholic Sisters and Brothers who put their hearts into loving, praying and supporting the Faith and Foundation of the Lord Jesus Christ. 

We also have Sisters of Seventh Day Adventists and there are a few Mormons here, who may be 'silent', but they are here and they love God. 

I agree that we are not to compromise God's Word and to stand upon John 14:6 (that no man comes unto the Father except through Jesus Christ).    If no one else, I think that I am the hardest rebel of all who are in this Forum, meaning that I've come hard on just about everyone who did not believe as I believe.    

The Sisters here who are Catholic, SDA and some Mormon, I've come to know them and even more, I've come to know their hearts outside of their denomination.   My girls, Galadriel, Lady Belle, and Jane Bond, KtyKaty, I wouldn't trade their hearts for the world.   They keep me straight and on my toes.   

Not too long ago, ktykaty was loving enough to remind me of a scripture reference that I had omitted.   I thank God for her doing so, otherwise many people would have been mislead by something I said in error.  

Galadriel has so much wisdom and knowledge and knows God's Word and will continue to stand against any political challenge that comes our direction.   She has bailed me out of many a controversial battle regarding social errors against Christianity.   

Belle Du Jour, has such beautiful insight regarding Marriage and it's not surface insight, it's God's insight and His wisdom.  

JaneBond007, will take you into history accounts that were once hidden and she has no shame nor fear in posting the Truth regarding issues that many will not talk about.   These are our Catholic Sisters and there are several others who do not fall onto what others may view negative about the Catholic Faith.   These women give life to knowing God for who He is.

It's because of them, that I see more of God than what I see in just me.  They truly love God and they love everyone here.  They do not force their faith upon anyone, but they will love you no matter what.  Therefore, I do my best not to hurt them.  They don't deserve it.   The bottom line is that we all share and love Jesus.   We will love you too.


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## MrsHaseeb (Mar 7, 2014)

JaneBond007 said:


> Recently, I was reading an article on witchcraft and the catholic apologist's  response to family members in it.  In general, the catholic approach is to genuinely look at someone's faith from a perspective of truth and not speculation and disdain.  Afterall, we know that there are universal truths and the prefigurement of Christ in times long before His incarnation (ex., g-ddess and child figures, Hindu personalities and names of the g-ds, virgin births etc.) and that these truths are revealed to differing people and expressed through their understanding of the cosmos.
> 
> Well, in the article, the question was raised as to what a catholic should say/believe about someone in witchcraft if sharing the gospel (implied) - not forcibly, but within an equal conversation - and it was said that we should know the truths based upon that other perspective or in this particular case, that wiccans do not believe in Satan.  So, charging them with worshipping Satan would be a falsehood:
> Link
> ...



JaneBond, Christ made very exclusive claims. He alone is Truth, which makes every religion that denies him false. Where do we see the apostles uniting with other religions? We don't. They preached Christ without compromise. And any true believer does the same.


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## JaneBond007 (Mar 7, 2014)

MrsHaseeb said:


> JaneBond, Christ made very exclusive claims. He alone is Truth, which makes every religion that denies him false. Where do we see the apostles uniting with other religions? We don't. They preached Christ without compromise. And any true believer does the same.





My walking hand-in-hand with someone of another faith for the good of protecting this land and its people is not an offense to Jesus.  He talked to Samaritans - those who challenged and changed the Hebraic law and became outcasts.  My walking hand-in-hand against human rights abuses is not an offense to Jesus if we are approaching Nazi WWII socially and politically as homosexuals are openly discriminated against.  Jesus is the Truth.  But remember, He never shoved it down anyone's throat.  All come freely.  It's a different manner when one is talking of human rights.  Actually, how a christian behaves regarding all human rights is the best indicator of the veracity of his faith.  We are not within justice to advocate harm against another, gay or not.  If we look to history and place ourselves into the place of whites trying to stand up for emancipation, it's not much different.

* Isaiah 1:17                                              ESV / 544 helpful votes                                     *

                                      Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.                

* Zechariah 7:9-10                                              ESV / 313 helpful votes                                     *

                                      “Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true  judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, do not oppress the  widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you  devise evil against another in your heart.”                


* Jeremiah 22:3                                              ESV / 252 helpful votes                                     *

                                      Thus says the Lord: Do justice and  righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has  been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the resident alien, the  fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place.


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## PinkPebbles (Mar 7, 2014)

Shimmie said:


> Hi @FreeIndeed...
> 
> First I welcome you to our Christian Forum which is filled with many, many, hearts of women (and men) who truly love the Lord. This includes our Catholic Sisters and Brothers who put their hearts into loving, praying and supporting the Faith and Foundation of the Lord Jesus Christ.
> 
> ...


 
Shimmie this is a beautiful post and I'm in total agreement.

One thing I can say about my Catholic sisters in this forum and outside of this forum is that they know how to LOVE. And that is the greatest commandment in the bible.

One can prophesize, speak in tongues, preach, judge, etc but if they never learned how to love like Christ all those things means absolutely nothing. 

Catholics are part of the body of Christ. I visited a Catholic church and the presence of God was there. And I will continue to occasionally visit a Catholic church .

I will now exit this thread and go back to work....


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## MrsHaseeb (Mar 7, 2014)

JaneBond007 said:


> My walking hand-in-hand with someone of another faith for the good of protecting this land and its people is not an offense to Jesus.  He talked to Samaritans - those who challenged and changed the Hebraic law and became outcasts.  My walking hand-in-hand against human rights abuses is not an offense to Jesus if we are approaching Nazi WWII socially and politically as homosexuals are openly discriminated against.  Jesus is the Truth.  But remember, He never shoved it down anyone's throat.  All come freely.  It's a different manner when one is talking of human rights.  Actually, how a christian behaves regarding all human rights is the best indicator of the veracity of his faith.



Excuse me? Christ demanded that they repent and come to him as Lord. Walking hand in hand with anybody who does not believe the Gospel is not something a believer does, even when it seems good. That's secular humanism, not Christianity. It's apostasy at its best. The best indicator of the veracity of disciple of Christ is conformity to His character and His nature, not joining a secular humanist movement with enemies of the Gospel of Christ. Jesus didn't do that. 
Luke 13:1-5 KJV
There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. [2] And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? [3] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. [4] Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? [5] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

^^^That's not the secular humanist jesus being preached in apostate Christianity today.


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## Galadriel (Mar 7, 2014)

MrsHaseeb said:


> JaneBond, Christ made very exclusive claims. He alone is Truth, which makes every religion that denies him false. Where do we see the apostles uniting with other religions? We don't. They preached Christ without compromise. And any true believer does the same.



JB is saying in order to preach Christ and the Truth, you have to understand other people and where they're coming from, so that you can help introduce them to the Gospel.

Remember when Paul spoke near the altar dedicated to the "unknown God" that had been erected? He challenged the people's pre-held beliefs/assumptions and introduced them to God, to the idea that He is very knowable, and has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ (who is True God and True Man). This is the approach JaneBond is speaking of--where you look at others' beliefs and say, "Okay, I see you believe in this...*but now, let me introduce you to The Gospel that Jesus Christ handed to us*." I think that's very powerful testimony, and a great way to evangelize.

Hurling inaccurate and ignorant statements at people will only make you look foolish. But preaching the Gospel fearlessly, and with a fiery passion and love, will never make one look foolish.

I don't believe in watering down the Gospel. I am not very familiar with Pastor Warren, so I can't comment on his record, and I *hope* he is able to minister to people without putting morality, or sexual morality to the side for the sake of feelings. More than ever we need men and women to fearlessly stand up for truth.

And guess what? We can stand up for truth without being jerks about it. I'm sure you've seen me debate in Off Topic--I don't have to call names, condemn people to hell, insult or degrade them, or e-fight. Okay, I admit I do get sarcastic sometimes, but that's just a personality quirk of mine. Some of the people I debate with are very smart and I like them . I believe they're WRONG  but I can still communicate my beliefs without stomping on others.


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## FreeIndeed (Mar 7, 2014)

Shimmie said:


> Hi FreeIndeed...
> 
> First I welcome you to our Christian Forum which is filled with many, many, hearts of women (and men) who truly love the Lord.   This includes our Catholic Sisters and Brothers who put their hearts into loving, praying and supporting the Faith and Foundation of the Lord Jesus Christ.
> 
> ...



Hello Shimmie,

Thank you for the welcome 

In any Christian forum, I generally assume that there is a smorgasbord of religious beliefs and religions present. Some are Ecumenical (in the sense of fostering unity with Roman Catholicism), and some are not. Some are Interfaith (in the sense of fostering unity with all religions), and some are not. But I would hope that no matter where we stand, we're able to discuss spiritual matters in a civil manner and remain true to our convictions even when there are essential or minor differences. I pray that this is not one of those Christian forums where Believers who are not Ecumenical, Interfaith, or inclusionist are deemed "unloving" and "divisive" among other religious pejoratives. Hopefully the women here will see that although we may disagree, even in key areas, I do care for my neighbor (including people that I interact with online) and I will always aim to communicate graciously. 

Jesus bless you


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## JaneBond007 (Mar 7, 2014)

ETA:  Monies are exchanged for political support and the linings of pockets as well as religious support/ideologies.  It's a long read, if you care to...I've included an excerpt.  See the links for the full articles.


http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v24n4/us-christian-right-attack-on-gays-in-africa.html


"To reach Africans, U.S. evangelicals now broadcast their Christian  Broadcasting Network (CBN) and Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN)  throughout sub-Saharan Africa. Although generally disinterested in  helping poor Blacks in their own backyard, in Africa U.S. White  conservatives driven to convert the continent dominate social services,  run orphanages, schools and universities, and provide loans.[12]  These  conservatives and evangelical charities like World Vision, Solar Light  for Africa, and the IRD-founded Five Talents use their presence in  Africa to address the question of homosexuality from a conservative  albeit misleading position. In this way, almost all U.S. conservative  Christians working in Africa are responsible for exporting homophobia to  Africa.           Indeed, Africans do not distinguish between moderate  evangelicals in World Vision and Hard Right figures like Scott Lively.  For them, the term "evangelical" conveys the notion of Protestant  Christianity as a whole, without the substantive distinctions made by  U.S. religious groups. And U.S. conservative evangelicals support  diverse Anglican, Presbyterian and Pentecostal church leadership in  Africa with which they share no denominational tie.  
*For instance, the  Providence Christian Reformed Church in Holland,  Michigan is not an  Episcopal congregation yet it provides funding to  the Anglican Church of  Uganda.[13]* Some U.S. support goes directly to salaries, and has since  1998, as  Reverend Aaron Mwesigyi of the Ugandan archibishop's office   explained.[14]

...* A Kenyan professor noted, "American  conservatives have been in my office several times requesting that we  cut ties with The Episcopal Church USA and other progressive funders in  exchange for their funds. *They have succeeded in getting small colleges  into their camp but we have refused."[15]
*The apparent plan is to encourage African church leaders to  swap their relationships with mainline churches for U.S. conservative  organizations and individuals.*
           While it is largely U.S. evangelical money displacing  mainline funds supporting African churches, renewal movements within  mainline U.S. churches reap the rewards by securing the alliance of  Africans in fighting their battles over gay ordination and other issues  at home and in international venues. This effort started as early as  1999, when members of the IRD-affiliated renewal movement in The  Episcopal Church USA went to Africa to ask African bishops to support  suspending the American church from the worldwide Anglican Communion for  being too gay friendly and socially liberal.
           More recently, IRD and United Methodist Church renewal  groups organized African delegates to prevent the United Methodist  Church from lifting its ban on the ordination of LGBT clergy during its  global General Conference in 2008. Jerald Walz of IRD put it this way,  "Wherever there is theological agreement, Americans are making ways of  helping their brothers and sisters both financially and theologically…In  the UMC, Americans reached out to the African delegates by helping them  navigate the system... Americans are also reaching out to their African  friends by giving them a voice at international gatherings."[16]
           Africa's attacks on U.S. mainline churches intensified when  The Episcopal Church USA consecrated an openly gay person, Gene  Robinson, as a bishop in 2004. On the surface, Bishop Robinson's  consecration was an Episcopal issue. However, renewal movements in the  Episcopal, United Methodist, and Presbyterian churches, and other U.S.  conservatives used it as an organizing tool to preach hatred against  LGBT people. In addition to citing Robinson as an example of Western  corruption, they partnered with African religious leaders to demand that  the Episcopal Church USA be excommunicated from the worldwide Anglican  Communion and replaced with conservative leadership.
            The churches then used their "principled" rejection of  mainline money as a fundraising opportunity. In appeals to U.S.  conservatives, Canon Allison Barfoot said the Anglican church of Uganda  in Kampala lacked working phones because it had rejected money from the  Episcopal Church USA.[17]  *Two years after the Anglican Church of Kenya  cut ties with the Episcopal Church USA in 2004, the Reverend Canon  Rosemary Mbogo, its Provincial Mission coordinator, appealed for tithing  from U.S. evangelical churches "to help the Kenyan province."[18] Their  requests to U.S. conservatives appear to have been answered, since both  churches confirmed that U.S. conservatives provide regular funding to  churches in both countries.*
*U.S. evangelical money is attractive because it does not  come with the demands for strict accountability made by mainline  churches.[19]  Bishops can spend it as they like. Ironically, U.S.  conservatives have always campaigned against "unrestricted" giving in  U.S. mainline churches. But in Africa, they prefer unrestricted giving  as another way of undermining progressives.
           Local fears that this lack of accountability breeds  corruption appear well grounded. Canon Alison Barfoot, an American  conservative, administers American funding at the Anglican Church of  Uganda headquarters without giving African accountants any access to  U.S.-related financial information or books, we learned.[20]   Furthermore, dissident U.S. Episcopal Bishop John Guernsey of  Woodbridge, Virginia, vets all U.S. donations and mission partnerships  with Uganda to ensure they come from "friendly" churches, and other U.S.  conservatives play that role for other countries, bypassing usual  safeguards.[21]  Their safeguards are loose enough that Bishop Samuel  Sekadde, the retired Bishop of Namirembe, is under suspicion for alleged  misuse of church funds.[22]  The independent Uganda Monitor observed  that the bishop's estates and private home suggest that "the good bishop  was either living beyond his means or helping himself to church  property."[23]*
--------------------------------------------------------------------

It's not straight support of biblical values and using the U.S. evangelical churches and it's speakers of seminars is a way for the host country to influence it's politics for favors, etc.


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## MrsHaseeb (Mar 7, 2014)

FreeIndeed said:


> Hello Shimmie,
> 
> Thank you for the welcome
> 
> ...



Amen FreeIndeed.


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## MrsHaseeb (Mar 7, 2014)

Galadriel said:


> JB is saying in order to preach Christ and the Truth, you have to understand other people and where they're coming from, so that you can help introduce them to the Gospel.
> 
> Remember when Paul spoke near the altar dedicated to the "unknown God" that had been erected? He challenged the people's pre-held beliefs/assumptions and introduced them to God, to the idea that He is very knowable, and has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ (who is True God and True Man). This is the approach JaneBond is speaking of--where you look at others' beliefs and say, "Okay, I see you believe in this...but now, let me introduce you to The Gospel that Jesus Christ handed to us." I think that's very powerful testimony, and a great way to evangelize.
> 
> ...



Galadriel, that is not what she said. In order to avoid deterring the thread I'll make this short... Paul preached the Gospel of Christ and told them God demands repentance. Steering someone in the right direction is done by preaching truth, period. All who deny Christ are in error. Denial of Christ may be by worshipping false gods after hearing the truth, believing a lie, promoting a false Gospel and anything else of the sort.


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## Shimmie (Mar 7, 2014)

PinkPebbles said:


> @Shimmie this is a beautiful post and I'm in total agreement.
> 
> One thing I can say about my Catholic sisters in this forum and outside of this forum is that they know how to LOVE. And that is the greatest commandment in the bible.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you PinkPebbles .. Amen to what you've shared.  

I'll be honest, our Catholic  Sisters show a lot more love than I do.  Whenever I'm in the middle of one of these  , They'll to me with this:     And set me straight regarding the issues at hand. 

JaneBond007, has pulled me from many a battle on this forum, asking me to pray for someone here who was in trouble.   Instead on joining in on the battle field with my 'attackers'  

Jane chose to Trust Me to come into another thread and pray for someone, and knowing full well that I was just  someone in another thread out.     No lecture, no judgment on what I may had said in a heated thread, Jane would come and ask me to pray for someone in trouble in another part of the forum.    She must think a whole lot of me to even think about asking me to do so.  

You've seen me in action   Yet all of you still loved me anyway.  

    We're 'Family' over here.   Family.


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## JaneBond007 (Mar 7, 2014)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Galadriel, that is not what she said. In order to avoid deterring the thread I'll make this short... Paul preached the Gospel of Christ and told them God demands repentance. Steering someone in the right direction is done by preaching truth, period. All who deny Christ are in error. Denial of Christ may be by worshipping false gods after hearing the truth, believing a lie, promoting a false Gospel and anything else of the sort.


.

That's absolutely what the analogy means.  But I hope that people read my previous post with the articles because I think it sheds light on how much of this happened.  It's not kosher, imho.


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## JaneBond007 (Mar 7, 2014)

Shimmie said:


> Jane chose to Trust Me to come into another thread and pray for someone, and knowing full well that I was just  someone in another thread out.     No lecture, no judgment on what I may had said in a heated thread, Jane would come and ask me to pray for someone in trouble in another part of the forum.    She must think a whole lot of me to even think about asking me to do so.
> 
> You've seen me in action   Yet all of you still loved me anyway.
> 
> We're 'Family' over here.   Family.




Oh dear, I don't deserve it...I'm so VERY flawed and you know it.    But I'm afraid of this whole Uganda thing because if all in those articles are true, then it's pointing to corruption beginning with the seasoning from U.S. churches/missions.  erplexed  I mean, this thing is HUGE.    Now I wonder if those govt. and church officials in Uganda realize that they just cut off a lot of $$lifeline, unless clandestine.  Lawd.


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## Shimmie (Mar 7, 2014)

JaneBond007 said:


> Oh dear, I don't deserve it...I'm so VERY flawed and you know it.  But I'm afraid of this whole Uganda thing because if all in those articles are true, then it's pointing to corruption beginning with the seasoning from U.S. churches/missions. erplexed I mean, this thing is HUGE.  Now I wonder if those govt. and church officials in Uganda realize that they just cut off a lot of $$lifeline, unless clandestine. Lawd.


 
No more than I am... Sis.  

And Uganda is very frightful.   Especially making it law to report known gays to the police.   What is someone is being vengeful and makes a false report purposely to get back at someone.    That's horribly frightful.  I wouldn't out a gay person for anything like this.


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## PinkPebbles (Mar 7, 2014)

Shimmie said:


> Thank you @PinkPebbles .. Amen to what you've shared.
> 
> I'll be honest, our Catholic Sisters show a lot more love than I do. Whenever I'm in the middle of one of these , They'll to me with this:  And set me straight regarding the issues at hand.
> 
> ...


 
Shimmie that's wonderful 

I can relate b/c God used a Catholic sister to teach me more about godly love, forgiveness, and healing. God used that moment to truly free my soul. I will be forever grateful  

And yes we are 'family' over here...always learning from one another and encouraging each other in the Lord.


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## Galadriel (Mar 7, 2014)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Galadriel, that is not what she said. In order to avoid deterring the thread I'll make this short... Paul preached the Gospel of Christ and told them God demands repentance. Steering someone in the right direction is done by preaching truth, period. All who deny Christ are in error. Denial of Christ may be by worshipping false gods after hearing the truth, believing a lie, promoting a false Gospel and anything else of the sort.



JaneBond007 disagrees with the Ugandan law, and said she would join with others to protest that law because it is extreme and unjust. She said nothing of compromising her beliefs or ignoring them.

For the record, I also disagree with the law. 

You know, there are actually secular/humanist pro-lifers who protest abortion--and I would totally protest abortion along with them. JB sees an injustice, and she's willing to protest it with anyone willing to join her, who have that same goal in mind.


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## MrsHaseeb (Mar 7, 2014)

Galadriel said:


> JaneBond007 disagrees with the Ugandan law, and said she would join with others to protest that law because it is extreme and unjust. She said nothing of compromising her beliefs or ignoring them.
> 
> For the record, I also disagree with the law.
> 
> You know, there are actually secular/humanist pro-lifers who protest abortion--and I would totally protest abortion along with them. JB sees an injustice, and she's willing to protest it with anyone willing to join her, who have that same goal in mind.



Oh. OK....


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## Galadriel (Mar 7, 2014)

Shimmie said:


> Thank you @PinkPebbles .. Amen to what you've shared.
> 
> I'll be honest, our Catholic  Sisters show a lot more love than I do.  Whenever I'm in the middle of one of these  , They'll to me with this:     And set me straight regarding the issues at hand.



Aww, you're a sweetheart, Shimmie  We all have to watch out for each other and correct each other from time to time.


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## Shimmie (Mar 7, 2014)

Galadriel said:


> Aww, you're a sweetheart, @Shimmie  We all have to watch out for each other and correct each other from time to time.


 
 

Plus my Dad and his parents were Catholic.   He and my Mom were married in a Catholic Church.    Now my Mom was raised Baptist.  

I rebelled and became a non-denominational with a Pentecostal platform, but grew up as an SDA at Sunset on Friday and all day on Saturday and Catholic Baptist services on Sunday.

I'm sooooo confused....


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## Galadriel (Mar 8, 2014)

Shimmie said:


> Plus my Dad and his parents were Catholic.   He and my Mom were married in a Catholic Church.    Now my Mom was raised Baptist.
> 
> I rebelled and became a non-denominational with a Pentecostal platform, but grew up as an SDA at Sunset on Friday and all day on Saturday and Catholic Baptist services on Sunday.
> 
> I'm sooooo confused....




Does that make you multi-denominational?


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2014)

Galadriel said:


> Does that make you multi-denominational?


 
  

Ahhhhhhhhhhh  YUP!


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## JaneBond007 (Mar 8, 2014)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Excuse me? Christ demanded that they repent and come to him as Lord. Walking hand in hand with anybody who does not believe the Gospel is not something a believer does, even when it seems good. That's secular humanism, not Christianity. It's apostasy at its best. The best indicator of the veracity of disciple of Christ is conformity to His character and His nature, not joining a secular humanist movement with enemies of the Gospel of Christ. Jesus didn't do that.
> Luke 13:1-5 KJV
> There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. [2] And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? [3] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. [4] Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? [5] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
> 
> ^^^That's not the secular humanist jesus being preached in apostate Christianity today.




I think you believe Jesus went about with turned-up nose like something stank and a whip in case they dared not follow Him.  You have presented apples where oranges were requested.  If your version of christianity is looking down upon Hindus and anyone else of any other faith, then that's you.  I wouldn't want to walk in your shoes, ever.  Sorry.  This world is horrid enough without christians condoning separatism and oppression of those who "dare not follow Jesus."  Hmmm.  Yes, He is the truth.  Are non-christians going to hell?  I dare say, "Nay."  He knows the heart and has the final decision.  I'll go out on another limb (not to catholics, though), you aren't saved...yet.  Still in the flesh.  Persevere until the very end, eh?  

Hmmm, we're talking about love and stuff and my post is harsh.  It's the false theology/misinterpretation that I'm attacking, not you personally.  We should learn the truth and He established it 2,000 years ago.

As for Warren, he's not seeking support from the gay community, he's built a lifetime going against homosexuality and attempting to "cure" people of it.  What he's actually doing is distancing himself from the corruption of the Ugandan govt. officials that invited and sustained those evangelical preachers and others for over a decade to say that he had nothing to do with the monies being exchanged for injection of ideology in that society, support of their very insane ideas about humanity and patriotism, support of the anti-gay movement and organizations of American churches to where they supported colleges, churches and officials by way of the pocketbook and any such other corruption that is going to hit the fan and very soon.    He's involved in a scandal, simply so.


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## Farida (Mar 9, 2014)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Amen FreeIndeed. Rick Warren is certainly not speaking out against the inhumane violence toward homosexuals because he cares about violence. He is doing it to gain their support. After all, if he was concerned about inhumane acts committed against humans he would speak out against all the brutal acts of violence towards the saints in other countries. Not one of these "leaders" have done that, nor have they tried to bring awareness to the people they lead about such things.



But isn't he choosing to speak against this because his name has been cited as a proponent? I have not seen his name used as a proponent of other acts of brutality so that's why he didn't address those here.

I have been to Rick Warren's church and he will come out and say something is plain wrong. During the elections he had meetings with some democrats and abortion came up and he did not mince his words. The same with gay marriage and I believe it was on CNN. 

The fact is the current atmosphere is quick to label anti gay marriage as homophobic and even supporting the lines of Uganda. People know the church does not support homosexuality so there's no surprise there. I think it is important what he has done here which is confirm the stance and reiterate the love of God for all. Especially in the context of what's going on in Uganda. This was not a general conversation. He clearly stated God has told us what sexuality is and then about free will. Even Paul said all things are permissible but not all things are beneficial. I see the same here.


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## Shimmie (Mar 9, 2014)

Farida said:


> But isn't he choosing to speak against this because his name has been cited as a proponent? I have not seen his name used as a proponent of other acts of brutality so that's why he didn't address those here.
> 
> I have been to Rick Warren's church and he will come out and say something is plain wrong. During the elections he had meetings with some democrats and abortion came up and he did not mince his words. The same with gay marriage and I believe it was on CNN.
> 
> ...


 
Farida... at the bolded.    Thank you for posting this.   It is most definitely the Truth, every word of it.   

And you are right, it is important / imperative to confirm the love of God (without compromise) in light of what is going on in Uganda. 

The gay agenda is so 'extra' / way too extreme and too quick and in total error I may add, to connect any Christian to Uganda.   They are expending their ammo and will soon no longer be able maintain the support and the attention for their battle.     The Truth always wills, lies always fail which is what their agenda is based upon, hyperbole and lies; it was all they could muster up to support their cause.


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