# It's possible!  0" to SL in 1 year!  (pic heavy)



## Charla (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm soooo excited that I had to share!

This is all my growth from my last relaxer of Oct 22, 2010 (minus a trim in March of 0.25"-0.5").  I took my cornrows out today and did an impromtu LC and low and behold I'm SL!



Piki shows March and August
Attachments
1. 1/2/11 -- My relaxed hair that's broken at the nape from wig combs.
2. Today -- reaches collarbone!
3. Today -- Still have about 1/2 inch under Dh's large finger!
4. Today -- stretches about 1.5-2" above fro! 
5. Mar-Aug


----------



## Stormy (Oct 20, 2011)

Yes, it's definitely possible! Congratulations!


----------



## MzSwift (Oct 20, 2011)

Congrats!  Looks very healthy as well.


----------



## hairaboutit (Oct 20, 2011)

Looks great! Congrats!


----------



## keepithealthy (Oct 20, 2011)

Good growth and retention! It looks very healthy as well.


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 20, 2011)

Congrats on the growth. Your hair looks very thick. But I regret to inform you that you are not shoulder length yet. You are getting there though.


----------



## Lucie (Oct 20, 2011)

Your hair is really thick.


----------



## Charla (Oct 20, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> Congrats on the growth. Your hair looks very thick. But I regret to inform you that you are not shoulder length yet. You are getting there though.



?...


----------



## MissKey (Oct 21, 2011)

Congrats your hair looks great


----------



## lesedi (Oct 21, 2011)

wicked progress OP!


----------



## Austro-Afrikana (Oct 21, 2011)

Your hair looks sooo much healthier. Great progress.


----------



## Lila25 (Oct 21, 2011)

Nice!!! Looks thick and healthy!!


----------



## AHeadOfCoils (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> Congrats on the growth. Your hair looks very thick. But I regret to inform you that you are not shoulder length yet. You are getting there though.



Not to play Captain Save an OP, but technically she's not even one year yet, so in Janurary of of 2012 she will more than likely be SL.  I do see that she claimed SL, but it doesn't matter though.  She has some growth to be proud of and if claiming SL makes her feel better then  so be it....

 Have a good day y'all.


----------



## AnjelLuvs (Oct 21, 2011)

*great job, hair has made lovely progress... looking nice and healthy*


----------



## AfroDoll (Oct 21, 2011)

Great progress! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## indarican (Oct 21, 2011)

You have some awesome growth!!!


----------



## Natty_Virgo (Oct 21, 2011)

Great progress, I hope I can follow your footsteps.


----------



## Bnster (Oct 21, 2011)

A lot of new growth, congratulations! What was your regimen like?  TIA!


----------



## Garner (Oct 21, 2011)

Congratulations!!!  Looks very healthy!!!    KUTGW


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 21, 2011)

So wait, you grew out your relaxer? And you are transitioning?


----------



## NappyNelle (Oct 21, 2011)

Charla, your hair looks awesome! So healthy and lush! Conditioning and oiling is worth it! Lol


----------



## pookaloo83 (Oct 21, 2011)

Nice progress, but I don't think you started from 0. I was looking for baldie pics. You started out with relaxed hair. Correct me if I'm wrong.I'm confused dammit!


----------



## *closer*2*my*dreams* (Oct 21, 2011)

_*Congrats!!!  Can I get the reggie too?! I'm trying to be like you!!*_​


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 21, 2011)

AHeadOfCoils said:


> Not to play Captain Save an OP, but technically she's not even one year yet, so in Janurary of of 2012 she will more than likely be SL.  I do see that she claimed SL, but it doesn't matter though.  She has some growth to be proud of and if claiming SL makes her feel better then  so be it....
> 
> Have a good day y'all.



I know it came off mean. I don't believe in lying to people or being hypocritical. If its not shoulder I will say it. She made great progress. I know soon she will be there and I'm very happy for her. To me shoulder is when your hair touches your actual shoulders. Falling a bit short of that is nothing to feel bad about. I BCed I'm 1 year and 4 months post BC myself.


----------



## Charla (Oct 21, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> So wait, you grew out your relaxer? And you are transitioning?



I'm all natural.  I cut off all the relaxed hair in March (see pikistrip.)



pookaloo83 said:


> Nice progress, but I don't think you started from 0. I was looking for baldie pics. You started out with relaxed hair. Correct me if I'm wrong.I'm confused dammit!



For me this is starting from 0 because this is all my growth since my relaxer 12 months ago.  So I had 0" of ng and this is my progress thru now.



Tamrin said:


> I know it came off mean. I don't believe in lying to people or being hypocritical. If its not shoulder I will say it. She made great progress. I know soon she will be there and I'm very happy for her. To me shoulder is when your hair touches your actual shoulders. Falling a bit short of that is nothing to feel bad about. I BCed I'm 1 year and 4 months post BC myself.



Anyone who's been on LHCF for a minute knows what to expect when they post their progress.  But if having my hair come to my collarbone in the front and 2.5" past my shoulders in the back is still not considered SL in some people's eyes, then so be it.  


Thanks for the encouragement ladies.  My ultimate goal of MBL seems like more of a reality now that I've accomplished SL as a natural.  Deciding to become natural and starting  my HHJ at the same time as resulted in the healthiest, strongest hair I've ever had as an adult!

As far those asking about my reggie, I try to keep it super simple.
Cowash 1x per week my strands, sulfate free shampoo on my scalp.
Sulfur oil and scalp massages every other day.
Protective styling nearly 100%
Moisturize and seal as needed, usually every 2-3 days.
Satin scarf to bed.
1x month chelate with Quantum, immediately followed by med protein treatment of ORS+egg.


----------



## greenandchic (Oct 21, 2011)

Beautiful hair and great progress - thanks for sharing!


----------



## pookaloo83 (Oct 21, 2011)

Charla said:


> For me this is starting from 0 because this is all my growth since my relaxer 12 months ago.  So I had 0" of ng and this is my progress thru now.
> 
> 
> 
> .



I gotcha! Now I see what you mean Charla


----------



## kandake (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> I know it came off mean. I don't believe in lying to people or being hypocritical. If its not shoulder I will say it. She made great progress. I know soon she will be there and I'm very happy for her. To me shoulder is when your hair touches your actual shoulders. Falling a bit short of that is nothing to feel bad about. I BCed I'm 1 year and 4 months post BC myself.




But the third picture shows her hair stretched below her shoulders.  Are you looking at the last pic?  That was in Aug.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 21, 2011)

Congrats Charla. I too measured my one year growth starting from 1 inch of new growth and then checking a year later and I had 5-6 inches of natural hair. So I got what you were talking about.



Charla said:


> As far those asking about my reggie, I try to keep it super simple.
> Cowash 1x per week my strands, sulfate free shampoo on my scalp.
> Sulfur oil and scalp massages every other day.
> Protective styling nearly 100%
> ...


 
@Charla, what are your protective styles? Some of us act like being asked to PS is being asked to eat spinach when you're 4 and prefer ice cream.  (Yeah, I'm talmbout myself. Plus I give the excuse that if I had Mwedzi's hair, I'd be PSing coz it's long and easy to do.  ) So do you mean you low mani or are you keeping ends completely hidden, and if so what styles do you rock?

After SL then PS becomes essential if you really want to reach goals fast (clearly I'm on a stroll myself  ) so if you already have some you like, then you will probably have the same steady progress from now on.

So yeah, do tell your PSing methods.


TIA


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> Congrats on the growth. Your hair looks very thick. But I regret to inform you that you are not shoulder length yet. You are getting there though.



Ummm... How u figure? Now I'm confused because if your hair can touch your actual shoulder, it can also touch your [edited:arm pit ] collarbone. In that case, there's no difference btw the two.

To each her own, but according to the charts, that's SL. 

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## Nonie (Oct 21, 2011)

JeterCrazed said:


> Ummm... How u figure? *Now I'm confused because if you hair can touch your actual shoulder*, *it can also touch you arm pit.* In that case, there's no difference btw the two.
> 
> To each her own, but according to the charts, that's SL.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Inspire™


 
JeterCrazed, I don't know about the bold or did you mean to say collarbone? The distance between shoulder and armpit for most people is rather large so I'm guessing that's a typo?

But Charla is at SL. On LHCF we do go by where the nape false. Some people who have a blunt cut and whose hair hangs down may call it shoulder only when even the hair on the sides reaches shoulders but for us LHCFers, the back will have made it further down the back by then so we'd go with that. That is unless we keep cutting the back to have all hair fall to the same length.


----------



## Charla (Oct 21, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Congrats Charla. I too measured my one year growth starting from 1 inch of new growth and then checking a year later and I had 5-6 inches of natural hair. So I got what you were talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nonie  Thx!  I truly hardcore protect my hair!  I might wear my natural hair out 1x in a month!  All this time I've been using half wigs, and I don't even leave hair out in the front.  I tuck it all in and use a stretchy headband to cover the wig line.  After I moisturize and seal my entire strand, I go back and do one more layer of castor oil on my ends, very gently twirl them and tuck them away in my satin bonnet.  Oh, and I wear a satin bonnet under my wigs, not wig caps.

This month I ventured into cornrows and even with these cornrows, I hardcore protected my strands by spraying my hair daily with a mix of African Pride braid spray, Infusium 23, avj, water, castor and evco.  After that soaked in for about 30 mins, I went back over the entire length of each cornrow with a small applicator tip bottle of 50/50 evco and castor and then for good measure, I coated the ends (where my natural hair ended) of each cornrow with a light shield of Vaseline. (The castor/evco sealing and vaseline was done 1x weekly, not every day.)

As a result of all that when I took my braids down, they were super soft, supple and mosturized!  I had never achieved that before in all my years of wearing braids!  They always turned out dry and brittle when I took them down, so all that extra work was sooo worth it!

All this paid off, so I'm going to continue as I head to my next milestone!


----------



## Charla (Oct 21, 2011)

JeterCrazed said:


> Ummm... How u figure? Now I'm confused because if you hair can touch your actual shoulder, it can also touch you arm pit. In that case, there's no difference btw the two.
> 
> To each her own, but according to the charts, that's SL.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Inspire™



thx, JeterCrazed, prolly meant collarbone.  Appreciate it, lady!


----------



## Lucie (Oct 21, 2011)

I am confused. I see progress but I don't even consider myself SL. And I BCed to about 1/4". Granted, we BCed at two different dates. I do consider myself a fast grower. 

Can someone tell me what SL is and is not. TIA.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 21, 2011)

Charla said:


> thx, JeterCrazed, prolly meant collarbone.  Appreciate it, lady!



Yes. Thank you 

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 21, 2011)

Lucie said:


> I am confused. I see progress but I don't even consider myself SL. And I BCed to about 1/4". Granted, we BCed at two different dates. I do consider myself a fast grower.
> 
> Can someone tell me what SL is and is not. TIA.



I guess I'm confused. Shoulder means shoulder to me. I guess I understand different. 

This is me at 1 year 4 months. I don't consider this shoulder and its twisted unstretched. I guess I have a different definition. When I touch my shoulders I will claim it. Until then I nape length. 

But hey I'm not trying to rain your progress.


----------



## lesedi (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> I guess I'm confused. Shoulder means shoulder to me. I guess I understand different.
> 
> This me at 1 year 4 months. I don't consider this shoulder and its twisted unstretched. I guess have a different definition. When I touch my shoulders I will claim it. Until then I nape length.
> 
> But hey I'm not trying to rain your progress.



What is the stretched length?


----------



## Misseyl (Oct 21, 2011)

Your hair looks thick and healthy but I don't think it's shoulder length, maybe neck length.


----------



## faithVA (Oct 21, 2011)

Based on the chart she is SL and very close if not already there Full SL or CBL. SL starts where the neck meets the shoulder.

So girl you are free to celebrate your new length per the chart.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 21, 2011)

Lucie said:


> I am confused. I see progress but I don't even consider myself SL. And I BCed to about 1/4". Granted, we BCed at two different dates. I do consider myself a fast grower.
> 
> Can someone tell me what SL is and is not. TIA.


 
 @Lucie, it depends on who you ask. On LHCF, when people show where their hair reaches, they usually will straighten it and stand with their back to you and all the hair brushed back so you can see it from the back. You do not see where the ends of the hair in the front stop because they blend into the rest of the hair. What you do see is where the hair in the back falls. And that is what we use to call a length. 

Sometimes people will stretch the hair if natural at the nape to simulate how long it might be if straightened, and if it reaches bra, they call it BSL, never mind where the hair on the sides stops or that on the crowns reaches. So as long as I've been on LHCF, where the hair in the back reaches is what people go by. 

So SL starts from the point NL ends up to the point there your hair is touching CBL. Most people will not call a length when just a few strands can be stretched to it, but rather will wait to do so when many can reach it and especially if the hair passes slightly so there's no chance of a head tilt being the cause for inaccurate results (or do we now call it the Lean-Back Phenomenon).

So if you look at the image below, shoulders slant from the point they join your neck to where your arms are attached, which is around CBL level. So many of us agree that you are at SL from the point you leave NL (see line where that ends and SL starts) and will still be at SL when you are CBL, only we call CBL Full SL. 





In other parts of the world outside of LHCF, SL is when your hair falls on the shoulders easily as shown in these images. 

When Charla turned her head, she was making use of the fact that we usually stretch hair downward (vertically) to see where it falls. Since the collarbone is in front, if she pulled her hair forward, she'd be getting an inaccurate "read", as I tried to show with this image:





By turning her head to the side, she's able to pull her hair straight down just like she can do in the back. To help show this, consider the person in the image to the left below to have his body facing us, but he turns head to the side. Notice by pulling hair straight down in the front with head turned, it falls to the same level it would if he had is side to us and was facing forward were pulling it straight down in the back. (Image to the right).


----------



## faithVA (Oct 21, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Lucie, it depends on who you ask. On LHCF, when people show where their hair reaches, they usually will straighten it and stand with their back to you and all the hair brushed back so you can see it from the back. You do not see where the ends of the hair in the front stop because they blend into the rest of the hair. What you do see is where the hair in the back falls. And that is what we use to call a length.


 
Nonie, If I had known you were going to post I wouldn't have bothered  . What took you so long?


----------



## lesedi (Oct 21, 2011)

Nonie damn son!


----------



## Lucie (Oct 21, 2011)

WOW Nonie!

No questions now, LOL!


----------



## Nonie (Oct 21, 2011)

faithVA said:


> @Nonie, If I had known you were going to post I wouldn't have bothered  . What took you so long?


 


lesedi said:


> @Nonie damn son!


 


Lucie said:


> WOW @Nonie!
> 
> No questions now, LOL!


 
Y'all are foo-els! 

ETA faithVA, I just realized you'd posted the chart while I was rambling. Now I'm the one who shouldn't have bothered with my redundant butt. And I guess I don't think to tell you what took so long.


----------



## faithVA (Oct 21, 2011)

@[URL="http://www.longhaircareforum.com/member.php?u=1333" said:
			
		

> Nonie[/URL];14472883]Y'all are foo-els!


 
We need to make your post a sticky so I don't have to go hunting for that thing every time. shoot 

ETA: That weren't paying attention to my post. They wanted that professor Nonie post.


----------



## faithVA (Oct 21, 2011)

OT: I'm not going to lie though when I measure for APL I will be pulling the hair to the front. People will have to just call me out. Cuz my arms aren't bendy and don't rinch around my back like that. And my mirror shots always have that big light burst in the middle. So just sayin.

sorry for going OT in your thread OP


----------



## Embyra (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> I guess I'm confused. *Shoulder means shoulder to me. I guess I understand different.
> *
> This is me at 1 year 4 months. I don't consider this shoulder and its twisted unstretched. I guess I have a different definition. When I touch my shoulders I will claim it. Until then I nape length.
> 
> But hey I'm not trying to rain your progress.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 21, 2011)

faithVA said:


> OT: I'm not going to lie though when I measure for APL I will be pulling the hair to the front. People will have to just call me out. Cuz my arms aren't bendy and don't rinch around my back like that. And my mirror shots always have that big light burst in the middle. So just sayin.
> 
> sorry for going OT in your thread OP


 
faithVA, there's no one who'll have a problem with you pulling hair to the front especially because you'll be the one getting cheated out of it unless you turn your head. 

If you don't turn your head to the side when you pull in front, your hair will actually appear shorter than it really is (based on this diagram):






Those two strands are exactly the same length. *a* appears to be approaching APL while *b *is just at collarbone or so.  The only way you will be able to get an accurate measurment (LHCF standards) is to turn your head so that you bring the edge of you nape forward so you can pull it down like B. Then you'll see APL. 

When I claimed APL, that's what I did. But just so I could be sure I was at APL I did it in an angle too (which really would give a shorter length). Had I done it straight down, it'd be a touch past APL, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. (Pic)


----------



## Charla (Oct 21, 2011)

Love the graphics, Nonie !


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 21, 2011)

I GUESS I'm collar bone ( not claiming nothing just guessing) lesedi. Honestly I do not follow charts. I take the length literally. Not "around", "near"  and "touching". I take things literally.


----------



## Charla (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> I GUESS I'm collar bone ( not claiming nothing just guessing) lesedi. Honestly I do not follow charts. I take the length literally. Not "around", "near"  and "touching". I take things literally.



Tamrin If "touching" isn't literal, then what is?  Btw, I'm "past" not touching.


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 21, 2011)

Charla said:


> Tamrin If "touching" isn't literal, then what is?  Btw, I'm "past" not touching.



Ok Charla. Whatever makes you happy. You are now "Past" shoulder. I agree with you. You are. 

Now let me go claim APL. Good I gotta go. I will be back.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> I GUESS I'm collar bone ( not claiming nothing just guessing) @lesedi. Honestly I do not follow charts. I take the length literally. Not "around", "near" and "touching". I take things literally.


 
Tamrin, was that your photo you attached with the plaits? And are you talking about the hair when straightened or in its curly state? Also do you determined a length on hair that all falls to the same length or if hair is all the same length (not longer at the crown) is it when the perimeter reaches that part?

For many people, their hair doesn't fall to the same length but every strand is the same length as the next, so there will never be a time when all the hair falls to one level, the perimeter will always reach further down the body than the crown. So how do YOU determine what's what? And for someoen who's hair shrinks up to a compact mass, how would you determine their length literally? Is it when hair is straight, and which part would you look at to decide?

Like how would you _literally_ call this length?


----------



## greenandchic (Oct 21, 2011)

(Hoping this thread don't dash my hopes of being able to claim BSL!)


----------



## Embyra (Oct 21, 2011)




----------



## naturalnikki (Oct 21, 2011)

Lovely!!!!


----------



## Stormy (Oct 21, 2011)

Yep Nonie and everyone, I measure from the back. Mainly because my hair grows in layers of different lengths. In my lower pic, the back was CBL/start of SL length after nine months of being natural in 2009 (that was my first time going natural and I started with about an inch of new growth). In this pic it was also a little frizzy on the ends so about a 1/2 inch of shrinkage. About two to three months after that I was a full SL according to your chart Nonie. That's why I thanked you before for that chart!!! My sides were neck length. 

Not trying to hi-jack the thread OP, I just feel you that's all.

Anyway, from the looks of it with all that thick hair OP I'll bet if you straightened it back it back in August it would have definitely been a little past SL then too.


----------



## bride91501 (Oct 21, 2011)

Nonie said:


> And for someoen who's hair shrinks up to a compact mass, how would you determine their length literally? Is it when hair is straight, and which part would you look at to decide?


 
*Exactly* this.  Using the "literal" definition, I might as well ask for my $6.50 back b/c my 4b hair _still_ shrinks back up to a TWA, even at almost APL.  Girl bye.

Charla - congrats girlie on reaching SL! Now brush your hair off ya shoulders (or pin it up, as it were ) and scoot on down to the APL challenge


----------



## lilyofthenile (Oct 21, 2011)

Well done! Your hair looks great =) I need some advice on my nape!


----------



## Charla (Oct 21, 2011)

bride91501 said:


> *Exactly* this.  Using the "literal" definition, I might as well ask for my $6.50 back b/c my 4b hair _still_ shrinks back up to a TWA, even at almost APL.  Girl bye.
> 
> Charla - congrats girlie on reaching SL! Now brush your hair off ya shoulders (or pin it up, as it were ) and scoot on down to the APL challenge



bride91501  Thanks!  You were my first hair inspiration when I joined this forum, and with all the info I learned from about simplicity in reggies and PS'ng I made sure to listen and do!  And now I'm here and on the road to APL!  YAY!


----------



## Charla (Oct 21, 2011)

Stormy said:


> Yep Nonie and everyone, I measure from the back. Mainly because my hair grows in layers of different lengths. In my lower pic, the back was CBL/start of SL length after nine months of being natural in 2009 (that was my first time going natural and I started with about an inch of new growth). In this pic it was also a little frizzy on the ends so about a 1/2 inch of shrinkage. About two to three months after that I was a full SL according to your chart Nonie. That's why I thanked you before for that chart!!! My sides were neck length.
> 
> Not trying to hi-jack the thread OP, I just feel you that's all.
> 
> Anyway, from the looks of it with all that thick hair OP I'll bet if you straightened it back it back in August it would have definitely been a little past SL then too.



Thank you!  You've experienced it and know it's a reality!

And wouldn't that have been cool! Making SL at my 1 year mark is great satisfaction! 





> Anyway, from the looks of it with all that thick hair OP I'll bet if you straightened it back it back in August it would have definitely been a little past SL then too


----------



## Charla (Oct 21, 2011)

KumakoXsd said:


> Well done! Your hair looks great =) I need some advice on my nape!



Thanks, KumakoXsd  What I learned about my nape that might help is that it's fine textured whereas the rest of my hair is med and coarse.  So since it's fine, I feel like it's prone to damage easier, so I try to do stuff that won't harm it like I no longer wear combs in my wigs, I don't cornrow my nape (I leave about the bottom 1" out), I seal it a little heavier than the rest of my hair, and when I do wear the occasional puff and putting on my long goody band, I made sure I don't let it rub against my nape as I'm inching it higher to form the puff.  Doing all these things has preserved my nape.  HTH!


----------



## pookaloo83 (Oct 21, 2011)

Well she very well may be shoulder length now. That pic was from August and we are now rolling into november. But I agree that the pic was in between shoulder and nape.


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 21, 2011)

Lordy be. Congrats on the great progress. This thread got me all wonky.


----------



## DearJohn (Oct 21, 2011)

OP I am pretty sure if you had straighten it it would have been sl so yes you can make it in one year.  good job.


----------



## Ms_CoCo37 (Oct 21, 2011)

Congratulations on your progress!  Keep it up, and you'll be APL in no time.


----------



## Solitude (Oct 21, 2011)

Congrats on your progress, OP. 

I agree with Tamrin. Your hair looks neck/nape-length to me. I just wasn't going to say anything at first, but that was my initial thought when I first looked at your pictures a day or so ago. SL to me is hair resting on one's shoulders. I mean...you put it in the title of the thread, so I feel like it's worth commenting on. 

Good luck to you.


----------



## Janet' (Oct 21, 2011)

on your awesome progress!!


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin (Oct 21, 2011)

I am so confused by this thread, but I am wishing the OP congrats on your progress! Your hair also looks very healthy!


----------



## whiteoleander91 (Oct 21, 2011)

lol seriously

anyway! congrats on reaching full shoulder/collarbone length!!! you are really working hard to keep your hair healthy. Keep up the great work Charla and don't let others steal your joy  can't wait to hear when you reach apl


----------



## NikkiQ (Oct 21, 2011)

Charla congrats on your progress lady. So happy for you. I see that people are looking at the pic you clearly have labeled with an August date and taking that as your current length and trying to throw you off your game. This is LHCF. Everyone is gonna have something to say. But you don't have to please anyone but yourself. We're gonna cheer you on no matter how salty and bitter broads are on here. 

I'll catch you in APL 2012 mama


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 21, 2011)

This is why I love Math people. Logic, people. Logic Nonie get's an A+ every time.


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 21, 2011)

Solitude said:


> Congrats on your progress, OP.
> 
> I agree with Tamrin. Your hair looks neck/nape-length to me. I just wasn't going to say anything at first, but that was my initial thought when I first looked at your pictures a day or so ago. SL to me is hair resting on one's shoulders. I mean...you put it in the title of the thread, so I feel like it's worth commenting on.
> 
> Good luck to you.



Solitude. I agree with you. I was trying not to be a hypocrite but I guess I'm wrong for telling the truth. I have learned today people like to be lied to. Sorry I was trying to steal someone's joy. I did not know a difference of opinion was stealing anything.

How is this forum helpful when its ok to lie? Progress is made when people are honest.


----------



## Charla (Oct 21, 2011)

NikkiQ said:


> Charla congrats on your progress lady. So happy for you. *I see that people are looking at the pic you clearly have labeled with an August date and taking that as your current length and trying to throw you off your game.* This is LHCF. Everyone is gonna have something to say. But you don't have to please anyone but yourself. We're gonna cheer you on no matter how salty and bitter broads are on here.
> 
> I'll catch you in APL 2012 mama



Yes, thank you!  _Reading is fundamental!_


----------



## aishasoleil (Oct 21, 2011)

Congrats on your progress! You look to be full shoulder length to me. No confusion here!  LOL!


----------



## Beautytalk69 (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm so lost. So r u ladies saying that u claim a length as long as your nape reaches? What about other 90% of your head? Let me go look at those diagrams one mo gen, bc that doesnt make sense.


----------



## Anakinsmomma (Oct 21, 2011)

Great growth OP!


----------



## NikkiQ (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> @Solitude. I agree with you. I was trying not to be a hypocrite but I guess I'm wrong for telling the truth. I have learned today people like to be lied to. Sorry I was trying to steal someone's joy. I did not know a difference of opinion was stealing anything.
> 
> How is this forum helpful when its ok to lie? Progress is made when people are honest.


 
But no one is lying to her nor is she lying to herself. You can see in the stretched picture that her hair passes her shoulders. The nape picture is from August. She created this thread out of joy over her progress and the negativity and attitude has taken this thread to a totally different place. It's not like she doesn't have pictures to back up what she's said.


----------



## Dragone (Oct 21, 2011)

Her hair grew, it grew a lot. Say congrats and move on, or just don't click. Y'all acting like improper labeling is going to make the hair fall out *your *head.


----------



## pookaloo83 (Oct 21, 2011)

NikkiQ said:


> @Charla congrats on your progress lady. So happy for you. I see that people are looking at the pic you clearly have labeled with an August date and taking that as your current length and trying to throw you off your game. This is LHCF. Everyone is gonna have something to say. But you don't have to please anyone but yourself. We're gonna cheer you on no matter how salty and bitter broads are on here.
> 
> I'll catch you in APL 2012 mama




Then why didn't she post a picture of Today? October 21st? That way people won't be so confused. How are people salty and bitter for congratulating her and telling her a lil bit more and you'll be shoulder length. Damn! Some of ya'll are too damn dramatic.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 21, 2011)

Claude Hammercy!!!


----------



## NikkiQ (Oct 21, 2011)

pookaloo83 said:


> Then why didn't she post a picture of Today? October 21st? That way people won't be so confused. How are people salty and bitter for congratulating her and telling her a lil bit more and you'll be shoulder length. Damn! Some of ya'll are too damn dramatic.


 
Umm...she did post a picture and she said it was from "today" unless I read it wrong. Sorry if you thought I was being "dramatic" but I was far from it.


----------



## fiyahwerks (Oct 21, 2011)

Congrats on your progress! Thanks for the motivation.

Regardless to length (and I know it's important), beautiful job babying that hair.  It's looks full and healthy. I'm in the same spot as you, so see you on the APL/BSL threads!


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 21, 2011)

NikkiQ said:


> But no one is lying to her nor is she lying to herself. You can see in the stretched picture that her hair passes her shoulders. The nape picture is from August. She created this thread out of joy over her progress and the negativity and attitude has taken this thread to a totally different place. It's not like she doesn't have pictures to back up what she's said.



I never got the pictures wrong.  They are clearly marked ( not in order) but clearly marked. However I still do not believe that length specifically the middle that looks about 2.5 inches long is shoulder? If you cannot for a bun it is not shoulder to me. Like I said before Shoulder length. ( SL)means being on  the ACTUAL shoulders. 

It was not said to be negative since I complimented her. I said it to be honest. She made progress but she is not there yet. Does not mean she will not. However to me, it is nape length. If you post on the forum you should be willing to welcome all opinions and consider them before you take offence. Not everyone will agree with you.


----------



## pookaloo83 (Oct 21, 2011)

NikkiQ said:


> Umm...she did post a picture and she said it was from "today" unless I read it wrong. Sorry if you thought I was being "dramatic" but I was far from it.




Okay I see the pic from today. Yes I do think you're being a bit dramatic , but if yo say you were far from it, I'll take your word. 

OP I didn't see the pic labeled as Today. Looks like you're collar bone length. Either way you made great progress so...whatever.


----------



## Carmelella (Oct 21, 2011)

bride91501 said:


> *Exactly* this. Using the "literal" definition, I might as well ask for my $6.50 back b/c my 4b hair _still_ shrinks back up to a TWA, even at almost APL. *Girl bye*.
> 
> @Charla - congrats girlie on reaching SL! Now brush your hair off ya shoulders (or pin it up, as it were ) and scoot on down to the APL challenge


 

lmao.  I didn't think it was that serious either.  And what could be more literal than your hair literally touching your shoulders.  I think that whole manipulation-extrapulation-guesstification of shrinkage-braids-coils-and-cross sections has to go.  If you have to say "My hair is nape length...under these conditions..." then you're not being "literal".

To the OP...nice growth.  You'r looks fluffy and healthy.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 21, 2011)

Beautytalk69 said:


> I'm so lost. So r u ladies saying that u claim a length as long as your nape reaches? What about other 90% of your head? Let me go look at those diagrams one mo gen, bc that doesnt make sense.


 
 Welcome to LHCF!  Beautytalk69

How do you see people showing length? Isn't it the hair in the back being pulled down? I mean, many of us don't have our hair cut like this:






whereby the back is so short so that the crown falls to the same level as the back. Most people have all their hair the same length, so that hair at the top of their head may only reach their ears while that lower back reaches further down. Like if this hair were to be straightened, the back may be at BSL but not the front. But if you looked at her from behind, it's where the straight hair falls that would have you calling her length...or I should say LHCF. LOL






Every photo you have seen on the forum showing progress shows the view from the back. And it is the hair that is lowest on our head ie nape that will reaches farthest down.


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> I never got the pictures wrong. They are clearly marked ( not in order) but clearly marked. However I still do not believe that length specifically the middle that looks about 2.5 inches long is shoulder? If you cannot for a bun it is not shoulder to me. Like I said before Shoulder length. ( SL)means being on the ACTUAL shoulders.
> 
> *It was not said to be negative since I complimented her. I said it to be honest. She made progress but she is not there yet. Does not mean she will not. However to me, it is nape length. If you post on the forum you should be willing to welcome all opinions and consider them before you take offence. Not everyone will agree with you*.


 
This.

Everyone here isn't apart of the getalong gang.  We don't always agree because as expected we experience things differently and have alternate pov's.  Tamrin was never disrespectful.  She said how she felt and that was it.  I don't see how she was throwing shade but that's just MY opinion.  Things posted on the LHCF do get magnified and disected.  Errythang   Where i'm confused is to how this is being blown up way out of proportion.  Are we robots here to where we have to agree with every poster, every thread, every opinion?


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 21, 2011)

pookaloo83 said:


> Okay I see the pic from today. Yes I do think you're being a bit dramatic , but if yo say you were far from it, I'll take your word.
> 
> OP I didn't see the pic labeled as Today. Looks like you're collar bone length. *Either way you made great progress so...whatever.*


 You make me sick sometimes I swear


----------



## Nonie (Oct 21, 2011)

Carmelella said:


> lmao. I didn't think it was that serious either. And what could be more literal than your hair literally touching your shoulders. I think that whole manipulation-extrapulation-guesstification of shrinkage-braids-coils-and-cross sections has to go.  If you have to say "My hair is nape length...under these conditions..." then you're not being "literal".
> 
> To the OP...nice growth. You'r looks fluffy and healthy.


 
Carmelella, none of you are answering my question. What if hair doesn't "literally" touch shoulders without being stretched coz it coils? Or what if hair is all the same length like an afro, what length would you call it, if you wanted to use the chart? What part of it would you consider the correct length on your body?


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 21, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Welcome to LHCF!  @Beautytalk69
> 
> How do you see people showing length? Isn't it the hair in the back being pulled down? I mean, many of us don't have our hair cut like this:
> 
> ...


 
That mannequin scares me.  Looks like a serial killer


----------



## NikkiQ (Oct 21, 2011)

Je Ne Sais Quoi said:


> That mannequin scares me. Looks like a serial killer


 
She wants to steal your Tangle Teaser


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 21, 2011)

NikkiQ said:


> She wants to steal your Tangle Teaser


 *shivers* i'm going to have nightmares tonight erplexed


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 21, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> If you cannot for a bun it is not shoulder to me.



I can bun MY hair... Still doesn't fall much lower than @Charla


----------



## LilMissSunshine5 (Oct 21, 2011)

Congrats OP! Folks MUST be looking at the wrong picture or else we are in the Twilight Zone  But hey, if the chart says it is there, then go on head and claim it! Achieving full SL/CBL must feel good


----------



## Embyra (Oct 22, 2011)

JeterCrazed said:


> I can bun MY hair... Still doesn't fall much lower than @Charla




this is what i imagine the op hair to look like straightened going off of the 4th pic that looks blowdried? which isnt shoulder length to me 

The op has the right to claim whatever she wants just as people have the right to disagree it has nothing to do with hate or stealing the op shine so now we cant disagree without people thinking there's malice involved??

I thanked the op original post as she made great progress and her hair looks healthy doesnt mean i then have to agree she is shoulder length or im somehow bitter about it sigh


----------



## DrC (Oct 22, 2011)

Eeew Nonie   she looks like a tranny from the 80's   She reminds me of that woman in George Michaels video  "Father Figure"



Nonie said:


> Welcome to LHCF!  Beautytalk69


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

These are shoulders:





This is a neck:





The two are connected.  Where NL ends, SL begins. 

I think some of you are looking at the length of the hair instead of looking at the place on her body it falls. It's not her fault that some of us have giraffe necks so our hair would not be at SL at that length. Hers is. 






If her hair were straightened, it'd probably be touching her shoulders kinda like this:


----------



## FoxxyLocs (Oct 22, 2011)

I have to say, I've seen quite a few questionable length checks on lhcf, along with questionable responses to said length checks, but I would never go in and tell that person their hair is actually xyz length. I just don't see the point and I think it comes off rude and catty, even if it isn't meant that way. 

In this case though, I do see SL. I don't know if it's full SL because it isn't straight, but it is definitely SL, so congrats OP! I love accurate length checks, lol.

Sent from my HTC Evo


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

JeterCrazed said:


> I can bun MY hair... Still doesn't fall much lower than Charla


 
Exactly! Being able to create styles does not a length determine. Size of head matters ( and LadyRaider can tell you that absence of neck doesn't disqualify either.  ). 

My big head couldn't form a bun when my hair was just SL. I could just about make it to a ponytail. Trying to make a bun was a joke, unless I was going for a "Where's the bun?" look. So if I were going by that, I'd only now be calling my hair SL.


----------



## LilMissSunshine5 (Oct 22, 2011)

The thing that I just cannot seem to understand is how can we re-define anatomy? Even in the example pics JeterCrazed posted, her hair is literally laying on her shoulders...yet she is not SL either? I am really not trying to be funny, but how is that not SL? Something can't lay on something if it hasn't reached it  If folks believe that you must have hair from your crown (not nape) reach the shoulders before you can claim it or it must reach there unstretched if your hair is curly, then I can understand why they don't believe the OP has reached SL yet. But no one has stated that when saying it wasn't achieved, hence the confusion. Maybe if ppl posted their criteria, the discussion would be more constructive...no one has addressed Nonie's questions either, which could also help clarify things. I don't think people want everyone to agree, but they want to know concrete reasons why they don't. Just my thoughts


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

Embyra said:


> this is what i imagine the op hair to look like straightened going off of the 4th pic that looks blowdried? which isnt shoulder length to me
> 
> The op has the right to claim whatever she wants just as people have the right to disagree it has nothing to do with hate or stealing the op shine so now we cant disagree without people thinking there's malice involved??
> 
> I thanked the op original post as she made great progress and her hair looks healthy doesnt mean i then have to agree she is shoulder length or im somehow bitter about it sigh


 
Embyra, if you're talking about the photo that was taken in August, do you realize she could've grown a full inch since then with her anal PSing? Already that hair has her entire neck covered meaning it's reached that line where NL ends and SL begins. What's more, when her hair appears to have a slight wave which would be ironed out with straightening. I don't know how y'all can question her being SL. Like Foxxylocs, I've seen questionable lengths get a pass and kudos, so not sure why this which is so obvious to me gets the side-eye. At first I thought it was coz people were expecting it to look like that tranny mannequin's cut, but if not, then I am lost like everyone else.  

Where's LadyRaider when I need her?


----------



## SmileyNY (Oct 22, 2011)

Claud! We can turn any thread into a great debate 'round these parts. 

Great progress OP! 


Sent from my iPhone.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

@SmileyNY, let's debate yours now. Are you at APL or BSL? Do you go by the front or the back? 

J/K  Sorry coudln't resist.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> These are shoulders:
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Nonie said:


> Trying to make a bun was a joke, unless I was going for a "Where's the bun?" look.


----------



## SmileyNY (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @SmileyNY, let's debate yours now. Are you at APL or BSL? Do you go by the front or the back?
> 
> J/K  Sorry coudln't resist.



I claim healthy & texlaxed  Let the debate begin... but without me  


Sent from my iPhone.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

SmileyNY said:


> I claim healthy & texlaxed  Let the debate begin... but without me
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone.


 
 back atcha. Has every bloody person lost their sense of humor today? 

'sup JeterCrazed!  At least you and I aren't seeing why folks have their panties in a bunch. I's tryna shed some light, others be squinting and tilting heads and seeing paralax or somep'n.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> back atcha. Has every bloody person lost their sense of humor today?
> 
> 'sup @JeterCrazed!  At least you and I aren't seeing why folks have their panties in a bunch. I's tryna shed some light, others be squinting and tilting heads and seeing paralax or somep'n.



Hey, gourl!! I just wanna see the logic, is all. Since it's a forum about long hair, and length is a number which should  not be subject to opinion, I am truly interested in ALL responses. All this sounds like asymptotes and imaginary numbers to me.


----------



## RarityFluttershy (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> These are shoulders:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*I.DIED.*


----------



## LadyRaider (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie 
I can't really follow what the argument is about here. But no one in any of the pictures in this thread seems to have a fat head and no neck... at least to the degree I have. So...

I'm glad I'm a failure at taking photos. There are advantages...


----------



## LovelyNaps26 (Oct 22, 2011)

LHCF. 

GO HARD OR GO HOME.


----------



## Embyra (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Embyra, if you're talking about the photo that was taken in August, do you realize she could've grown a full inch since then with her anal PSing? Already that hair has her entire neck covered meaning it's reached that line where NL ends and SL begins. What's more, when her hair appears to have a slight wave which would be ironed out with straightening. I don't know how y'all can question her being SL. Like Foxxylocs, I've seen questionable lengths get a pass and kudos, so not sure why this which is so obvious to me gets the side-eye. At first I thought it was coz people were expecting it to look like that tranny mannequin's cut, but if not, then I am lost like everyone else.
> 
> Where's LadyRaider when I need her?





If you have a few ends of your hair touching waist length doesnt mean your waist length TO ME if you want to claim those 10 pieces of hair by all means do so 

I dont class the op as shoulder length length in the pics im seeing and quite frankly all the back and forth pictures not changing that 

Im entitled to not agree to someone's personal definition of what makes them think xyz its just that my opinion 
If the op thinks its rude of me then sorry but i didnt think people would think someone not agreeing with hair length is rude/hating/ shine stealing etc 

If that was me i would have told them im claiming and what? i just wouldnt care


----------



## yorkpatties (Oct 22, 2011)

OP congrats on your length on your HHJ. I can see why others may have thought you were nape length. When I first viewed the photos it appeared to me that you were nape length too, possibly because you can't see your actual shoulders in the pic but if you really look, you CAN see where your shoulder blades would be. I believe if the photo were further back like the august photo, it would be more easily noticed. But after reading this controversial thread I just HAD to go back and examine the photographic evidence for myself. I've enjoyed this episode of CSI: Curl Stretching Investigation.


----------



## RarityFluttershy (Oct 22, 2011)

> I've enjoyed this episode of CSI: Curl Stretching Investigation.


 
*Y'all Are Cuttin Up To Night.*

*OPOn Your Thick Hair. Happy Hair Growin.*:creatures


----------



## Embyra (Oct 22, 2011)

Good grief


----------



## Solitude (Oct 22, 2011)

NikkiQ said:


> Charla congrats on your progress lady. So happy for you. I see that people are looking at the pic you clearly have labeled with an August date and taking that as your current length and trying to throw you off your game. This is LHCF. Everyone is gonna have something to say. But you don't have to please anyone but yourself. We're gonna cheer you on no matter how salty and bitter broads are on here.
> 
> I'll catch you in APL 2012 mama



Why would someone be bitter and salty over SL-hair? There are women here with WL & hip-length hair...why would a person need to throw shade at collarbone or nape-length? -__-

My hair is APL, not long by LHCF stsndards...but I passed SL a long time ago and have cut and grown my hair back twice, so it matters naught to me what the literal definition is. I originally was not going to comment, but I did to make it clear that I agreed with those who don't see SL.

OP wrote that dramatic title, which was bound to spark a reaction.

Nonie I would like to respond to your question about what others think SL is, but I am on my phone. In short, resting on shoulders is not the same as touching shoulders.


----------



## LongLeggedLife (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


>


 

OT, but is this chart showing MBL as being where I thought BSL was??  
I fasten my bra the same place that bikini string is, so is that MBL??
I need to hike my bra up so I can claim some addtl length!


----------



## ms-gg (Oct 22, 2011)

*MID *Back Length=*halfway* between your shoulder blades and booty (the *middle *of your back).

 BSL is wherever you fasten your bra at.  If it is the middle of your back then so be it.


----------



## divachyk (Oct 22, 2011)

OP, congrats--great progress.
Nonie - giraffe necks.  I'll take the bait, what length am I? 
Note to self, don't start a length thread without military grade body armor. j/k


----------



## Carmelella (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Carmelella, none of you are answering my question. What if hair doesn't "literally" touch shoulders without being stretched coz it coils? Or what if hair is all the same length like an afro, what length would you call it, if you wanted to use the chart? What part of it would you consider the correct length on your body?


 

I say that to my knowledge we don't have any "Win a Million Dollar Hair Challenges" nor is anyone selling a product so whatever, and whichever way the OP would like to measure should be satisfactory.  As long as they are fair and don't make ridiculous claims and have comparison pics.  

Some people here are against straightening so if they would like respectable/encouraging comments as long as they use the same general comparison (puff growth, fro width, stretched length, flat ironed straight, etc) then it should be acceptable. 

 I don't see the sense in using braided hair or densely shrunken hair as a comparison unless you are showing HUGE changes.  It would be a tad suspect otherwise because in the same day I could braid the same chunk of hair and have it look different lengths.

I really liked the diagrams that you put up and felt like the general lines are pretty accurate and agreeable.  And again, its all about the comparison.  I mean there are some heavier and shorter people here who don't appear to have much of a neck.  We can't get on them for not having clearly defined landmarks.

I personally stretch the front of my hair (bangs) and the neck area.  However, now that I BC'ed my hand can't stretch like that so i'll be using side pics to check growth.


----------



## Carmelella (Oct 22, 2011)

divachyk said:


> OP, congrats--great progress.
> @Nonie - giraffe necks.  I'll take the bait, what length am I?
> Note to self, don't start a length thread without military grade body armor. j/k


 

lol.  I posted my BC a few days ago and quickly changed my title of my before pic to "armpit-like".  I was afraid of being jumped on for being a cm off.  My length shirt also had jacked up lines   I know almost everyone probably thought I was trying to "cheat".


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

LongLeggedLife said:


> OT, but is this chart showing MBL as being where I thought BSL was??
> I fasten my bra the same place that bikini string is, so is that MBL??
> I need to hike my bra up so I can claim some addtl length!


 
LongLeggedLife, that's why we don't use BSL anymore. Some people wear their bras at their armpits some mid-back. MBL is middle of the back and the back starts from the end of the neck to the tailbone. So halfway there is MBL. Where you wear your bra has no effect on parts of the body which is why we use body parts as those remain constant. If you had a bra with a thick strap, BSL would be higher than if you wore one with a thin strap, so again inconsistency.

Embyra, the entire bottom of OP's hair that is blow dried is touching the base of her neck, not one hair, but the majority of her hair. And that was 2 months ago! So not sure where you're getting the one hair or two.


----------



## Embyra (Oct 22, 2011)

I can see pics 2-4 that she took today i never said the op had one or two hairs reaching 

I stated waist length that is what i was talking about and was a example of when i think people are reaching with their claims which is why i stated claim whatever you want to claim doesn't mean im going to agree 

Im so over his topic you and everyone else can post the pics and go into detail of why im wrong and why your right the op is indeed shoulder length yes claim that and enjoy it

no need for any more mentions


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 22, 2011)

Embyra said:


> I can see pics 2-4 that she took today i never said the op had one or two hairs reaching
> 
> I stated waist length that is what i was talking about and was a example of when i think people are reaching with their claims which is why i stated claim whatever you want to claim doesn't mean im going to agree
> 
> ...



Embyra, you and I see the same thing. Many including the OP are never going to agree. It is perfectly ok. OP's hair to me is my hair 4 months post BC. She made GREAT progress. I just wanted her to be realistic. No graphics are going to change my mind. I saw the pictures right and to me they do not say shoulder. I figured the point of LHCF was to get honest help and  honest opinions and not to be told what I wanted to hear. From jump OP took offence to what I said. I'm not hating nor taking anything away from op. I just don't agree and will never be convinced and there are many other members here who will not be either. However I'm going to let OP be great. Congrats on your SL hair.


----------



## bebezazueta (Oct 22, 2011)

Charla congrats on your beautiful SL hair!  I understood what you meant. A good quote I recently read stated "NEVER EXPLAIN, your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe you anyway!"

Keep up the good work!


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


----------



## Mathewmn (Oct 22, 2011)

Congrats on your progress 

Sent from my SGH-T849 using SGH-T849


----------



## SmileyNY (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> back atcha. Has every bloody person lost their sense of humor today?



It's not that I don't have a sense of humor, I just didn't want to hijack the thread any further. It's obviously a little too late for that, so since you insist, I claim Hip Length! My hair is curled in my siggie, so you can't see it. Don't make me break out a diagram  


Back on topic.... Charla I think you are indeed grazing shoulder length  Awesome growth for just a year! Have you flat ironed your hair since your BC? If not, when do you plan to flat iron for the first time? The 1st flat iron is always fun & it makes it easier to clearly see your growth. And of course there's the swang! Yaaass! I love a good hair swang after a flat iron! *day dreams about my next flat iron in February* 




Sent from my iPhone.


----------



## reeko43 (Oct 22, 2011)

Well OP, it looks like the majority view you as sl. I view you as sl because I was always taught that the shoulder started where your neck ended. Since that is the general concensus, hair board or not, I am not about to reinvent the wheel. Unstraightened you can stretch your hair past shoulder so we all know longer length can actually be claimed after straightening. If we were to use the term "resting" for natural hair, then people like Mdwezi could only claim full shoulder length which we all know is absurd.

Majority of us do not have a bowl cut so we cannot always go by sides, top and back. If my hair is layered to rest on my shoulders yet the back of my hair reaches past midback, am I only allowed to claim sl?

Since these length checks are so subjective, I am going to exercise my right to post my opinion which supports op. I see hair when stretched goes past the technical start of shoulder. Congrats OP on reaching a healthy SL and I pray for many more healthy inches for you in the future


----------



## Charla (Oct 22, 2011)

Thanks for such kind words and encouragement and support! I'm looking forward to APL since I've never had hair that long!

SmileyNY  I'm planning my first flatiron in Dec.


----------



## Mis007 (Oct 22, 2011)

pookaloo83 said:


> Then why didn't she post a picture of Today? October 21st? That way people won't be so confused. How are people salty and bitter for congratulating her and telling her a lil bit more and you'll be shoulder length. Damn! *Some of ya'll are too damn dramatic*.


----------



## gforceroy (Oct 22, 2011)

This probably isn't the right thread but.. I'm confused (kinda) let's say if my hair in the front is a bit past my chin, the back reaches the collarbone, and the sides are where the bottom of neck ends(start of shoulder). What length would that be since all ends are not the same?

To the OP: nice growth! It looks like what your claiming to me...


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 22, 2011)

What I miss? Conversation so long Charla prolly MBL by now. 

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## Lucie (Oct 22, 2011)

No wonder why I don't come to the particular forum too often. Ain't no enemies up in this thread. Just posters that do not agree, me being one of them. I have more months post-BC than the OP and I STILL am NOT claiming SL/APL. How can the middle of your hair be 2.5" and be claiming that? This thread reminds me of shopping at Victoria's Secrets? Too much damn vanity sizing. In this case vanity-length claiming.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

To be sl,. From the front your hair should rest here (see pic below)  and then from the back it should rest past your neck and touch the back to be SL, right??? 







*^^^^Isn't that the shoulder? And isn't OP's hair touching that??? *


I'm confused. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 22, 2011)

Lucie said:


> No wonder why I don't come to the particular forum too often. Ain't no enemies up in this thread. Just posters that do not agree, me being one of them. I have more months post-BC than the OP and I STILL am NOT claiming SL/APL. How can the middle of your hair be 2.5" and be claiming that? This thread reminds me of shopping at Victoria's Secrets? Too much damn vanity sizing. In this case vanity-length claiming.



Erruh, how are you not shoulder yet?  You have to be Lucie. There ain't no way you aren't.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

OP, I just wanted to add that I think you're doing wonderful job!!!   I was just asking in another thread if it's possible to go from BC to SL in one year and you prove that it is very possible. 

Thanks for sharing!!!!


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 22, 2011)

Lucie said:


> No wonder why I don't come to the particular forum too often. Ain't no enemies up in this thread. Just posters that do not agree, me being one of them. I have more months post-BC than the OP and I STILL am NOT claiming SL/APL. How can the middle of your hair be 2.5" and be claiming that? This thread reminds me of shopping at Victoria's Secrets? Too much damn vanity sizing. In this case vanity-length claiming.



I believe she said 2.5 in above her fro. But you're right. We will not all agree and I don't think any of you who don't agree with Charla are being mean at all. I don't think you're hatin' either. It's just that no one who has disagreed has been able to give us a clear explanation of their view of SL. If it has to lay on your shoulders unstreatched, I'm afraid that no fro will ever be able to claim WL and then I'll be forced to play the race card on you. 

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

SmileyNY said:


> It's not that I don't have a sense of humor, I just didn't want to hijack the thread any further. It's obviously a little too late for that, so since you insist, I claim Hip Length! My hair is curled in my siggie, so you can't see it. Don't make me break out a diagram
> 
> Sent from my iPhone.


 
Oh boy! Smileny, I wasn't asking you to derail or even respond. I expected you to realize I asked the  question as a joke that didn't even need any response. My adding "J/K" = just kidding was my way of saying, "I'm only pulling your leg" (in other words, don't even take me seriously and respond). Your response implied you didn't take it as a joke, hence my wondering what's with the humor around these parts.

If someone said to me, "Just kiddin'!" I'd know immediately that I'm to disregard what they said because they didn't mean for me to take it seriously.  

Charla, maybe you shoulda just measured your hair and given a number. Oh but no, that'd not be enough. You'd have to show us with a tape measure coz people be fronting.  I've seen an inch be called 2 inches so yeah, give us the number, show us the stretche hair against a ruler, then show us a close of the calibration so we can see for ourselves. Forget that chart coz it only is accurate for blunt cuts.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> To be sl,. From the front your hair should rest here (see pic below) and then from the back it should rest past your neck and touch the back to be SL, right???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Ladybelle, that line represents what LHCF calls CBL or Full SL. 

IMO any where from the point where the neck ends to line you drew is called SHOULDER so hair that passes the neck up to that line is at SL. At that line, it's at the max length that SL can be, hence the term Full SL. At Full SL it is touching the Collarbone hence it is also at CBL.

And to answer your question in bold, yes, OP's nape hair is long enough to fall to that level.


----------



## Lucie (Oct 22, 2011)

JeterCrazed said:


> I believe she said 2.5 in above her fro. But you're right. We will not all agree and I don't think any of you who don't agree with @Charla are being mean at all. I don't think you're hatin' either. It's just that no one who has disagreed has been able to give us a clear explanation of their view of SL. If it has to lay on your shoulders unstreatched, I'm afraid that no fro will ever be able to claim WL and then I'll be forced to play the race card on you.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Inspire™


 
SL is sitting on the left and right shoulder blades. There's no neck involved in SL. This is why I do not claim SL. Last night I told Tamrin that a girl in my HS had SL hair. She was a 2c/3a. She had a blow out done and she was PAST WAIST-LENGTH. We were floored at how much shrinkage she had. 

I don't think afro-textured hair will ever accurately showcase true length without being straightened or stretched. However, more or less, we can still determine what length they are. I did twists last night. My longest twist is about a foot long. When I finished twisting they shriveled to 5". 

I can't wait to have SL - BSL twists. That's my own personal goal.


----------



## Lucie (Oct 22, 2011)

Je Ne Sais Quoi said:


> Erruh, how are you not shoulder yet? You have to be Lucie. There ain't no way you aren't.


 
I have no way of knowing as I don't foresee straightening my hair any time soon.  It'll be almost 2 years post-BC and I still have not checked my length yet.


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 22, 2011)

My question has nothing to do w/ op.  Just curious.  How is the first line indicative of where sl starts??  Your shoulders are not attached to your neck like that.  I believe that shoulder length is the 2nd line.  What am i missing?


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Ladybelle, that line represents what LHCF calls CBL or Full SL.
> 
> IMO any where from the point where the neck ends to line you drew is called SHOULDER so hair that passes the neck up to that line is at SL. At that line, it's at the max length that SL can be, hence the term Full SL. At Full SL it is touching the Collarbone hence it is also at CBL.
> 
> And to answer your question in bold, yes, OP's nape hair is long enough to fall to that level.


 

Thanks Nonie!! I did not know it was that technical around here, but obviously it is.  So, if I'm understanding it correctly, OP is SL but not full SL yet?  And some are arguing that she's not SL because her hair isn't touching the line? 


Not that my opinion makes the difference but her hair is touching her shoulder so that would be SL.


----------



## NikkiQ (Oct 22, 2011)

Lucie from your siggy,your hair looks amazing and very lush. I think if you did a stretch test you'll be pleasently surprised 

Sent from my SPH-D700 using SPH-D700


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 22, 2011)

Lucie said:


> I have no way of knowing as I don't foresee straightening my hair any time soon.  It'll be almost 2 years post-BC and I still have not checked my length yet.


 

*loudly whispers to Lucie* pppssssssttt!!!!  you know you are likely pushing apl, right?   All that thickness, ain't no way


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

But, then again - if we are going by actual human anatomy then what @Lucie said would be accurate, because the actual shoulder blades are at the top of our backs a few inches below our necks. And the collarbone is the pic I showed up thread. Although a lot of people call those the shoulders, they aren't  - that's if we are going by the human body diagram (see below.) 












Another diagram, so if we are going by the actual correct human anatomy, the OP isn't SL, she's collarbone/clavicle length. Because although her hair is past her neck, it isn't touching her shoulders/scapula??? 


Very,very interesting & now I know.  So, if we are being technical - I have to recant my original opinion. In spite of OP's absolutely gorgeous progress and hair growth, she isn't SL yet. She's CL.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

Lucie said:


> No wonder why I don't come to the particular forum too often. Ain't no enemies up in this thread. Just posters that do not agree, me being one of them. I have more months post-BC than the OP and I STILL am NOT claiming SL/APL. *How can the middle of your hair be 2.5" and be claiming that?* This thread reminds me of shopping at Victoria's Secrets? Too much damn vanity sizing. In this case vanity-length claiming.


 

Lucie, you ask that question because you forget that we're using a chart that was made for white people and people with relaxed hair that hangs who expect to have their hair falling to a point. They cut the hair at the perimeter way shorter than the at the crown so that the hair at the point at which the hair at the crown falls to is the same one that the hair at the perimeter falls to. For someone like me, a natural 4B, to have that, I'd have to be sporting a hi-top or Don King do when wearing an afro since the sides would have to be shorter than the crown so that when I straighten, the crown can reach the same spot that the perimeter reaches.

But that isn't the case. Many people have hair all the same length so that it'd fall as if it were cut in layers. So to say that we have to wait till the crown reaches the shoulders to claim shoulders, is to creat a new rule because by the time that happens, the back will be approaching MBL for shorties like me. And if I were to brush all my hair back, my hair'd be reaching MBL (if I use that chart) and if I am not allowed to use that chart, then y'all have to come up with something else besides giving strand measurement. 

I was teasing SmileyNY asking what length she claims just to be funny because unless you're going for a blunt cut, you will have hair falling at different levels. Her front/sides fall to APL but her back is past BSB. 

Since someone decided long ago that we'd determine length by looking at where hair falls when viewed from the back, then we have no choice but to accept that--and for most people, that'll be where the hair that is lowest on their head falls. All this concern about where the crown falls would only apply if we were all going for the look of the tranny/mannequin I posted. 

In fact, where the nape hair falls IMO seems to be a fair way to assess length because it will be a uniform criterion for all no matter what the rest of the hair does. If your nape hair is at SL today, and at APL tomorrow, you've made progress. The chart isn't supposed to be a determinant of who wins a prize so that we have to be so nitpicky about every strand. The chart is supposed to help us gauge our progress. OP was at a neck length away from shoulder some months ago. Then her hair grew long and that back finally made it to shoulder. She didn't start off talking about her crown and then suddenly switch up and point to nape. It's the same point she's been monitoring, so for the sake of tracking progress, can we just keep an eye on what the nape is doing? Of course you have every right to call YOUR length what you want. Before I got to APL I had a few strands touching it and people felt I should call it. I didn't, so I didn't. (No I didn't stammer  )


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> But, then again - if we are going by actual human anatomy then what @Lucie said would be accurate, because the actual shoulder blades are at the top of our backs a few inches below our necks. And the collarbone is the pic I showed up thread. Although a lot of people call those the shoulders, they aren't - that's if we are going by the human body diagram (see below.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@Ladybelle, and this is what makes English interesting. Shoulder blades are not at the top of our backs but they are about halfway between MBL and shoulders. They are nowhere near shoulders. Similarly hipbones are close to the waist and nowhere near hips. The bone names have nothing to do with the parts of the body they are named after. Just like collarbone is not up near the neck where a collar sits.

So the names given to the bones of the human skeleton have nothing to do with the names given to the parts of the human body aka the skeleton when dressed with flesh and skin.

These diagrams were for different discussions but show you what I was talking about. 

The shoulder blade is that traingular bone that sticks out in the back, which is why BSB means below shoulder blade:






And this shows the hips and hipbone:


----------



## Mrsblessed (Oct 22, 2011)

Lol Was skeletons and graphs really apart of this convo. Didn't read the thread but lol and Smh


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Ladybelle, and this is what makes English interesting. Shoulder blades are not at the top of our backs but they are about halfway between MBL and shoulders. They are nowhere near shoulders. Similarly hipbones are close to the waist and nowhere near hips. The bone names have nothing to do with the parts of the body they are named after. Just like collarbone is not up near the neck where a collar sits.
> 
> So the names given to the bones of the human skeleton have nothing to do with the names given to the parts of it when dressed with flesh and skin.


 


I'm still confused then.How does the location of the bones change? When they are covered in skin, aren't they still the same bone? Even if we call it something different, that doesn't make it accurate does it? What people often call shoulders aren't technically the shoulders, it's the collarbone, right? And, I promise I'm not trying to be smart or sarcastic, I genuinely want to know just for my own personal knowledge base.



ETA:NEVERMIND! I see now. Nonie, thanks!


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

Mrsblessed said:


> Lol Was skeletons and graphs really apart of this convo. Didn't read the thread but lol and Smh


 


That's just me trying to learn the proper hair measurements, nothing to do with OP.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Ladybelle, and this is what makes English interesting. Shoulder blades are not at the top of our backs but they are about halfway between MBL and shoulders. They are nowhere near shoulders. Similarly hipbones are close to the waist and nowhere near hips. The bone names have nothing to do with the parts of the body they are named after. Just like collarbone is not up near the neck where a collar sits.
> 
> So the names given to the bones of the human skeleton have nothing to do with the names given to the parts of the human body aka the skeleton when dressed with flesh and skin.
> 
> ...


 

Ohhhhhh....... I see now. I had to go back and look at that again.  Thanks for clearing that up for me!!!! 

You're good. 


I take it back again, OP is SL.


----------



## SmileyNY (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Oh boy! Smileny, I wasn't asking you to derail or even respond. I expected you to realize I asked the  question as a joke that didn't even need any response. My adding "J/K" = just kidding was my way of saying, "I'm only pulling your leg" (in other words, don't even take me seriously and respond). Your response implied you didn't take it as a joke, hence my wondering what's with the humor around these parts.
> 
> If someone said to me, "Just kiddin'!" I'd know immediately that I'm to disregard what they said because they didn't mean for me to take it seriously.



*face palm*  ok Nonie 

Trust me.. I wasn't taking you seriously. 


Sent from my iPhone.


----------



## BostonMaria (Oct 22, 2011)

I come in here and I am bombarded with scientific charts, skeletons, rulers, etc WTF is going on 


Sent from my fancy iPhone using LHCF


----------



## Raine054 (Oct 22, 2011)

Interesting thread. The OP has great growth but I think it's best if we measure hair in inches on our hair growth journey. It allows us to to accurately track our hair growth/retention. 

There is so much variance in hair measurements depending on an individual's body type and proportions. My hair is just at tailbone length/full hip length but I know that I have 23 inches of hair from scalp to tip.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

Je Ne Sais Quoi said:


> My question has nothing to do w/ op. Just curious. How is the first line indicative of where sl starts?? Your shoulders are not attached to your neck like that. I believe that shoulder length is the 2nd line. What am i missing?


 
 What do you call the part where your body stops the downward descend that is called neck and starts the horizontal shape? The part this lady has her hand?





Je Ne Sais Quoi That whole horizontal part of the body is called shoulder. So I don't know why folks are ignoring such a wide part of the body and only labeling the end just before it starts a downward descent into arms. 

This is called a shoulder massage because it is the shoulder's being massaged, ie the horizontal part of the body right below the head that forms the top of the torso:






This is a neck and shoulder massage because the neck and shoulder are connected and the massage is being done right at the point they join:





So indeed where NL ends is where SL starts because when you travel down the body, the minute the part called neck ends, you find yourself at shoulders.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

@Nonie 
You are so funny, but accurate indeed!  How did the guy say it in Love Jones, "_let me go ahead and break this down so it can forever and consistently be broken_." That's what you did.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> For someone like me, a natural 4B, to have that, I'd have to be sporting a hi-top or Don King do
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


    
   

Whooo.....
*wipes tears*

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

gforceroy said:


> This probably isn't the right thread but.. I'm confused (kinda) let's say if my hair in the front is a bit past my chin, the back reaches the collarbone, and the sides are where the bottom of neck ends(start of shoulder). What length would that be since all ends are not the same?
> 
> To the OP: nice growth! It looks like what your claiming to me...


 
gforceroy, I think I answered your question here.


----------



## thaidreams (Oct 22, 2011)

Congratulations on all your growth!!!


----------



## HauteHippie (Oct 22, 2011)

I still consider shoulder length hair hair that reaches at least the top of the scapula-- the majority of it, not the last 2 inches. Above that (but under neck) or less than that and it's almost shoulder. About shoulder length. Close to shoulder length. But to each his/her own.

ETA: like, when you get a massage and the therapist bends your elbow and rests the back of your hand on your back, therefore exposing the scapula... the top of that (flat part with indention) is shoulder length for hair.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2


----------



## coyacoy (Oct 22, 2011)

Lucie said:


> I am confused. I see progress but I don't even consider myself SL. And I BCed to about 1/4". Granted, we BCed at two different dates. I do consider myself a fast grower.
> 
> Can someone tell me what SL is and is not. TIA.


Lucie - i love ur hair color!!!


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

Raine054 said:


> Interesting thread. The OP has great growth but I think it's best if we measure hair in inches on our hair growth journey. It allows us to to accurately track our hair growth/retention.
> 
> There is so much variance in hair measurements depending on an individual's body type and proportions. My hair is just at tailbone length/full hip length but I know that I have 23 inches of hair from scalp to tip.


 
Raine054 I agree with the inches being more accurate, but I think that'd be only relevant or necessary if we were comparing progress, or if that's what one prefers. I think most people use their bodies because we are visual creatures and we consider long hair not by squinting and estimating the length in inches on someone's head but by seeing where it falls on their body or how big the afro relative to their head. Now if we are discussing how much growth one got in a set time, I do agree that inches would be more useful in painting a clear picture of what the average growth is that can be achieved. All the talk of "I made butt length in two years" is a bit misleading when one's a little person. 

But in the case where we're just tracking our own growth, I think it woudn't even matter what we called it. The point is just to be able to show that previously my hair could only reach here, but now can reach this lower point here. It's more about being able to see a change in length that is visible than being able to be correct about that length to the 4th decimal point.


----------



## LittleLuxe (Oct 22, 2011)

I'm choosing to stay out of this particular topic cause...yeah, scary though contests to OP! I may not know what length you are but you're not bald so thats an accomishment right there! 

Nonie where do you GET all your diagrams and pictures??? It seems like you have 1 for EVERY topic! I swear...I could see some ladies arguing about a dihydron collider and you popping into the thread like "Ladies observe portion B of the first picture..." what I'm saying is it's always very amusing and informative.


----------



## LadyRaider (Oct 22, 2011)

I think there is a designation of "full shoulder length" that people sometimes use. I like that one, as now I am full shoulder length and that does separate you from that time when you were just getting there.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

LittleLuxe said:


> Nonie where do you GET all your diagrams and pictures??? It seems like you have 1 for EVERY topic! I swear...I* could see some ladies arguing about a dihydron collider and you popping into the thread like "Ladies observe portion B of the first picture..."* what I'm saying is it's always very amusing and informative.


 
LittleLuxe, you made me howl!   

I don't even know what that is but boy you have me in tears!  You're so silly!


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

EtherealEnigma said:


> I still consider shoulder length hair hair that reaches at least the top of the scapula-- the majority of it, not the last 2 inches. Above that (but under neck) or less than that and it's almost shoulder. About shoulder length. Close to shoulder length. But to each his/her own.
> 
> ETA: like, when you get a massage and the therapist bends your elbow and rests the back of your hand on your back, therefore exposing the scapula... the top of that (flat part with indention) is shoulder length for hair.
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2


 
EtherealEnigma why you gotta rain on our parade? Don't you know how good it feels to be at SL even if just barely? Why you gotta be a party pooper? 

I'm kidding! I hear you. I too felt most confident claiming SL when my hair was at CBL simply because I don't live on the forum (even though it may seem like I do.  Believe it or not, I actually live out there on Planet Earth where no one would know what I was talmbout if I didn't wait to get to CBL to call it SL. So I only talked about SL here behind closed doors. Of course I screamed off the rooftops when I got to CBL that I was at SL. (Yes, that CBL word is also a secret among us. I don't tell it to people in my world. They no speak LHCF, you see?) 

Anyway, what you call SL is fondly known around these parts as "Full SL or CBL" as LadyRaider pointed out.


----------



## nzeee (Oct 22, 2011)

uhm... wow.

we posted diagrams of the human skeleton. in a length thread.

my mind is officially blown.

IMO if diagrams and graphs and whatever else is being pulled out then there must be some kind of ish. not putting anything on OP here... it's just LHCF culture i suppose. i'm afraid to disagree on anything now lest the diagrams come out.

anyhoo, OP i find that as much as it's nice to claim a length (progress is progress right?) it's more effective (for me) to wait a bit before claiming. it somehow makes time at each length seem to pass faster. claiming SL now might mean a whole lotta waiting until you can claim APL... OTOH there is no approval process here so you're free to claim what you wanna. but if you post about it... anybody is free to disagree... 

but perhaps next time those who may disagree won't be bludgeoned with charts and such. or be called out for disagreeing. sheesh... it's a forum. many opinions. in this case pulling out a chart doesn't make your opinion any more factua. we're using woefully inadequate measures that are not universal/changes by person & method of measurement and method of documentation. until we're all measuring the same way and using inches rather than subjective bodyparts it just can't be this serious erplexed


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 22, 2011)

LittleLuxe said:


> I'm choosing to stay out of this particular topic cause...yeah, scary though contests to OP! I may not know what length you are but you're not bald so thats an accomishment right there!
> 
> Nonie where do you GET all your diagrams and pictures??? It seems like you have 1 for EVERY topic! I swear...I could see some ladies arguing about a dihydron collider and you popping into the thread like "Ladies observe portion B of the first picture..." what I'm saying is it's always very amusing and informative.






DEAD.....

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## HauteHippie (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie

Lol Okay, you're right. This isn't the thread for being a party pooper
, this is a thread for kudos and the OP has done a great job of retaining length.

More of the community should speak LHCF, though. It's such a great language.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2


----------



## HauteHippie (Oct 22, 2011)

LittleLuxe said:


> Nonie where do you GET all your diagrams and pictures??? It seems like you have 1 for EVERY topic! I swear...I could see some ladies arguing about a dihydron collider and you popping into the thread like "Ladies observe portion B of the first picture..." what I'm saying is it's always very amusing and informative.



Lol! That is so true!

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2


----------



## Solitude (Oct 22, 2011)

I don't get the confusion about where shoulders are. If a person places his hand "on your shoulders" they are not going to touch you on the back of your neck!!! If the bulk of your hair only reaches the bottom of your neck, you're neck-length. The space below your neck is your upper back, not your shoulders. Only on LHCF will folks act like a person's neck and shoulders are the same thing, but okay!!! 

It has nothing to do with shrinkage because the length measurements are based on where the hair would be if straightened. If your hair can touch, but not rest on your shoulders when straightened or stretched, you are either still neck length or just barely grazing SL.


----------



## ms-gg (Oct 22, 2011)

This is the most EPIC shoulder length thread ever! That is all.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

nzeee said:


> uhm... wow.
> 
> we posted diagrams of the human skeleton. in a length thread.
> 
> ...


 
 I really wanted to know how length is determined and maybe this thread wasn't the appropriate place for that, so I'm sorry OP.  


I posted the skeleton chart because I was thoroughly confused on what parts of the body people were basing length designations off of. 


I didn't realize it was so technical or is it subjective?  idk.



Solitude said:


> I don't get the confusion about where shoulders are. If a person places his hand "on your shoulders" they are not going to touch you on the back of your neck!!! If the bulk of your hair only reaches the bottom of your neck, you're neck-length. The space below your neck is your upper back, not your shoulders. Only on LHCF will folks act like a person's neck and shoulders are the same thing, but okay!!!
> 
> It has nothing to do with shrinkage because the length measurements are based on where the hair would be if straightened. If your hair can touch, but not rest on your shoulders when straightened or stretched, you are either still neck length or just barely grazing SL.


 

But, if you're hair touches the spot where you say  if someone touches you on the shoulder, isn't that SL?   I think the debate started in people saying you're not SL until you're hair is past that point, which doesn't seem to be a fair designation to me. 


It's really not that serious to me, I was just very curious as to how the length designations were being determined. At the end of the day, it is still just hair. 


I do know that when I get to SL again, I will NOT be posting a thread about it for some heifer to tell me I'm not based on some technicality that I can't even understand.  That would make me erplexed.


----------



## reeko43 (Oct 22, 2011)

All of this reminds me of when a coworker asked me how long my hair was a couple of months ago.  I told her truthfully I don't know but that it is at least at the bottome of my shoulder blades.  Coworker then corrected me telling me my hair wasn't that long.  She told me that when I wear my hair wavy (tight braidout) that it only goes to my shoulders and couldn't possibly stretch to bsb (of course she didn't use that term) .  My coworkers have never seen my hair straight.  I didn't even bother to argue.

Couple of weeks ago same coworker and I started going to a dance class.  We wait at my house till time for class.  I decided to wear a wig so she offered to do a few corn rows for me.  As she started combing through it she started saying "wow!"  She then stretched my hair out and stated, "your hair is where your bra ends, almost to the middle of your back!  It never looked like it could be that long!".

Moral of the story, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks as long as you know


----------



## RarityFluttershy (Oct 22, 2011)

*This Has Gots To Be The Funniest Thread Of The Year.

Some Of Y'all Even Posted Pictures Of The Skeletal System.
*Its Rough Out Here In These Streets**


----------



## lesedi (Oct 22, 2011)

RarityFluttershy said:


> *
> *Its Rough Out Here In These Streets**



INNIT?!!!!!!!


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

RarityFluttershy said:


> *This Has Gots To Be The Funniest Thread Of The Year.*
> 
> *Some Of Y'all Even Posted Pictures Of The Skeletal System.*
> **Its Rough Out Here In These Streets**


 

 

I was just curious. I keep telling ya'll that.


----------



## faithVA (Oct 22, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> I really wanted to know how length is determined and maybe this thread wasn't the appropriate place for that, so I'm sorry OP.
> 
> 
> I posted the skeleton chart because I was thoroughly confused on what parts of the body people were basing length designations off of.
> ...


 
You are not the cause of this thread going in the direction it did. I could have told you from the title and the first post how it was going to go. Anyone who has watched this board for a while knows where a thread is going to go. It is just the way it is. 

I actually posted the chart before you did. So blame me  

The chart has been around for a while and it is used in many of the length challenges. It is not a new thing and it is used just as a reference.

I am with you though, I leave my hair progress updates to length challenge thread. 

But nothing wrong with a little discussion.


----------



## reeko43 (Oct 22, 2011)

faithVA said:


> I am with you though, I leave my hair progress updates to length challenge thread.
> 
> But nothing wrong with a little discussion.


 
Agreed. That is why I will not be posting too many specifics when I am finally completely natural.  But then again, I might for the shoots and giggles  I wonder what diagram would be used to determine what constitutes a big chop?  

But seriously though, I think it is so great that OP's hair is where she never imagined it would be.  I will be so excited for when she meets her next hair goals


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

faithVA said:


> You are not the cause of this thread going in the direction it did. I could have told you from the title and the first post how it was going to go. Anyone who has watched this board for a while knows where a thread is going to go. It is just the way it is.
> 
> I actually posted the chart before you did. So blame me
> 
> ...


 

IKR?   Nothing wrong with a little discussion. I feel like I just got out of a philosophy class where much is debated & discussed but nothing really resolved.   It's fun at least.



reeko43 said:


> Agreed. That is why I will not be posting too many specifics when I am finally completely natural. But then again, I might for the shoots and giggles I wonder what diagram would be used to determine what constitutes a big chop?
> 
> But seriously though,* I think it is so great that OP's hair is where she never imagined it would be. I will be so excited for when she meets her next hair goals*


 

ITA with the bolded.


----------



## Solitude (Oct 22, 2011)

Ladybelle

I just answered your question in my previous post. If OP's hair was just barely touching her shoulders - what normal people call shoulders - it would be grazing SL. If the bulk of her hair rested on her shoulders when straightened/stretched, it would be SL or full SL without the need for a debate.

Touching the bottom of your neck or just barely below it is neck length. Again, people are giving examples of 10-inch+ shrinkage (which type 3s and 4s have) but the OP does (edit- I meant does not) have 10 inches of hair (judging from the pictures), so the examples referencing 6-10 inches of shrinkage are irrelevant to this discussion.


----------



## allmundjoi (Oct 22, 2011)

Should I jump in and say the shoulder (girdle)=clavicle [collar bone] + scapula [shoulder blade] so saying SL is clavicle level is actually correct, anatomically speaking of course. Lol, ijs.


----------



## LadyRaider (Oct 22, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> This is the most EPIC shoulder length thread ever! That is all.



No way. The thread where the crowd said some poor woman could not claim shoulder length because she had no neck (fat head) is the most EPIC shoulder length thread ever.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 22, 2011)

LadyRaider said:


> No way. The thread where the crowd said some poor woman could not claim shoulder length because she had no neck (fat head) is the most EPIC shoulder length thread ever.


 

say what now??  I bet that was a mess.


and O/t at your siggie: congrats on your weight loss, that's the bomb.com!!


----------



## Meemee6223 (Oct 22, 2011)

I guess if I ever post my progress I'll just leave out what length I'm claiming.... Congrats on your growth Charla! I hope this doesn't discourage u from posting in the future. I loooove progress pics! 

Sent from my T-Mobile G2


----------



## HauteHippie (Oct 22, 2011)

LadyRaider said:


> No way. The thread where the crowd said some poor woman could not claim shoulder length because she had no neck (fat head) is the most EPIC shoulder length thread ever.



Lol, you're absolutely right! I can't believe it went there like that.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2


----------



## reeko43 (Oct 22, 2011)

LadyRaider said:


> No way. The thread where the crowd said some poor woman could not claim shoulder length because she had no neck (fat head) is the most EPIC shoulder length thread ever.


 
Ok, that is ignorant.  However, I understand after a year on LHCF how a thread can turn into a hot steaming cow pie


----------



## yorkpatties (Oct 22, 2011)

LadyRaider said:


> No way. The thread where the crowd said some poor woman could not claim shoulder length because she had no neck (fat head) is the most EPIC shoulder length thread ever.



Okay now someone needs to post a link to THAT discussion. This kind of entertainment and some of us might pay for a monthly subscription! LOL :creatures


Can you imagine if some chicks said that about your progress pics?  LOL


----------



## Charla (Oct 22, 2011)

Charla said:


> Thanks for such kind words and encouragement and support! I'm looking forward to APL since I've never had hair that long!



When I left this comment this morning about (60+ posts ago!), I really thought that would be the end of this thread.  Wow, was I wrong.

I attended a funeral today of a 93-year-old man, and my DH and I were discussing the societal changes he must have experienced in his lifetime.  It was really a sobering discussion and quite a reality check in that things we think are important today aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things.

Reaching SL as a natural is a huge accomplishment for me, and I know others felt the same way before.  No one knows the patience and care, trial and error and daily dedication it took for me to achieve that.  My hair is healthy, strong and thick.  I wanted to share this HUGE accomplishment for me with people who have as great an interest in hair health as I do.  I especially wanted to share it with the ladies who aren’t there yet and wondering if there hair will ever grow because that’s EXACTLY how I felt for about the first 6 months of my HHJ, which began the day I got my last relaxer and viscerally knew relaxers weren’t for me anymore.

With all that being said, none of this matter in the grand scheme of things.  My obituary won’t say “She made SL in October 2011.”  _And it won’t matter to any of you next in a day or two._

Nonetheless, this thread only inspires me further to keep up what I’ve been doing, share my successes and new thresholds whenever I choose, and as always expect the expected on this forum.

And once again, thanks for all the encouragement, support and kind words.


----------



## bride91501 (Oct 22, 2011)

Charla - HUNNNNEEEEEE I LIVE!! 

My only regret is that there isn't enough space under my siggy to quote your post for all of eternity 

Keep doing you honey, cuz it's clearly working :wink2:


----------



## Theresamonet (Oct 22, 2011)

My issue with the op claiming SL is not that that portion of her hair is not technically SL, but that I thought on this forum we claimed a length when the majority or at least a good portion of our hair reached that point. It seems to me from the op's pics that the part of her hair she is pulling down is probably the only portion of her hair resting on her shoulders. 

If the op straightened her hair I assume it would look similar to this: 












IMO, to publicly claim SL one should have more than just the nape layer resting on their shoulders.














I guess that is why the term "full SL" was adopted, because it really doesn't makes sense to claim it before that time. A person with 3 inches of hair all around can not be shoulder length *imo*. 

*I'm not hating on the op, nor am I bitter. I've already made APL-- _full_...I hate on BSB or longer ladies only now.  j/k.


----------



## Carmelella (Oct 22, 2011)

Raine054 said:


> Interesting thread. The OP has great growth but I think it's best if we measure hair in inches on our hair growth journey. It allows us to to accurately track our hair growth/retention.


 
Although technically that would be the most accurate if we were trying to prove something (ex: Can 1 month of minoval  2x/day increase my growth rate significantly), i don't think this site should be focusing at proving something.  I think requiring a measurement for someone to post their progress is a lill too much.  And i know that after i take down weave/braids, wash, deep condition,.. i'm tired and even taking pics is a task much less finding out how i'm gonna measure it and hold the ruler down and take pic all by myself.

I know that you didn't suggest that this be a requirement , but i'm just saying, just in case someone else does.  

In all, this should be for fun, and as long as OP doesn't make ridiculous claims or starts comparing bang lenth as start pic and nape length as end pic then we should all accept the "small" nuances of these definitions.

The world is relative,.. maybe instead of calling it "length" check, we should call it "distance check"   That way we would all be scientifically correct if we maintain constant variables


----------



## reeko43 (Oct 22, 2011)

Theresamonet said:


> I guess that is why the term "full SL" was adopted, because it really doesn't makes sense to claim it before that time. A person with 3 inches of hair all around can not be shoulder length *imo*.
> 
> *I'm not hating on the op, nor am I bitter. I've already made APL-- _full_...I hate on BSB or longer ladies only now.  j/k.


 
Good point. Actually, sl and full sl are two different lines on those charts.  I never saw OP refer to being full SL.   I have also seen people claim APL and then state full APL as their next goal.  I would say the majority of length checks I see here are from the back and the poster declares their lenghth by the longest portion of their hair "in the back".  I see very few threads where people actually say to a person who has made MBL or beyond with a portion of their hair that they can't claim it because the majority of their hair is not that length.  I guess that is why I don't see why that is necessary in this thread.  But

The great thing is OP will be full SL full APL and definitely one of the long hair idols soon because her reggie is on point!


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 22, 2011)

reeko43 ^^^^^ i quoted for you where she said "PAST".



Charla said:


> Tamrin If "touching" isn't literal, then what is?  Btw, I'm "past" not touching.


----------



## Lucie (Oct 22, 2011)

coyacoy said:


> Lucie - i love ur hair color!!!



coyacoy, it's my camera's flash. It changes my color without the harsh chemicals. Hahahaha!


----------



## LovelyNaps26 (Oct 22, 2011)

NOTE TO ALL NEWBIES OR UNINITIATED LHCFERS: 

Be at leas 2 inches PAST the stated goal so that you won't get the side eye. 

 i started here at SL and was so excited that i claimed APL several months later even though my hair was layered. i just put it in my siggy at the time. if i had posted a thread it probably would've been like this thread. Some ladies may be 'haters' but i think LHCF has just made many of us attentive to details.


----------



## reeko43 (Oct 22, 2011)

LovelyNaps26 said:


> NOTE TO ALL NEWBIES OR UNINITIATED LHCFERS:
> 
> *Be at leas 2 inches PAST the stated goal so that you won't get the side eye.*


 


That was cute


----------



## ksly4ever (Oct 22, 2011)

Congratulations on reaching your first goal. Your hair looks lovely and healthy


----------



## Nonie (Oct 22, 2011)

Charla can you include yo' shoulders in the pics so I don't have to go borrowing some for you.






Also since folks can't see that your hair was at the end of neck length 2 months ago, I've gone and made you a progress pic that's comparable to the August one, showing you at an inch later. 





So when you get it really straight and you feel a bug walking on the top of your back, don't panic. It's just that swang tickling your back. Takes some getting used to.


----------



## likewtr4chklit (Oct 22, 2011)

ONLY on a hair board


----------



## blueberryd (Oct 22, 2011)

Ithink the problem w SL is there is a "top of shoulder"--like riiiight after the neck and then there is a "tip of shoulder"--like where you arm begins. Ithink collerbone length and armpit length are both bettr descriptors--w the Op being collarbone.
Great progress btw!


----------



## blueberryd (Oct 22, 2011)

LadyRaider said:


> No way. The thread where the crowd said some poor woman could not claim shoulder length because she had no neck (fat head) is the most EPIC shoulder length thread ever.



LMFAOoooo!!! Omg did that really happen??? #shame! Lol


----------



## Solitude (Oct 22, 2011)

Since the OP says the thread she started about her own hair is suddenly "unimportant" there is no use in me wasting my precious time typing about it anymore...but...



blueberryd said:


> LMFAOoooo!!! Omg did that really happen??? #shame! Lol




Since ppl keep asking about the epic SL thread, here's the LANK!!!

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=454518


----------



## pookaloo83 (Oct 22, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Charla can you include yo' shoulders in the pics so I don't have to go borrowing some for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I can't take it!


----------



## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 22, 2011)

Obviously the most recent pic, if you were to stretch it, it would indeed be SL anyways. I knew that without lookin too hard. But y'all had to go in there and nitpick, and Y'all done conjured Nonie out her corner knowing she was gonna come and set y'all straight...

Someone earlier said, she didn't want to lie to her--well, no one is lying to OP to make her feel better.... And everyone disagreeing with her claim didn't help no one by "coming to her rescue" by informing her that she is not quite SL (cause u like to keep it REAL)....Are you trying to call us fake???? (rolls eyes) UGH....

Good growth OP!


----------



## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 22, 2011)

pookaloo83 said:


> I can't take it!



Me neither girl!!!


----------



## faithVA (Oct 22, 2011)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> *Y'all done conjured Nonie out her corner knowing she was gonna come*


 
conjuring Nonie - I love it. I'm going to use that phrase next time I need her to appear.


----------



## Lucie (Oct 22, 2011)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Obviously the most recent pic, if you were to stretch it, it would indeed be SL anyways. I knew that without lookin too hard. But y'all had to go in there and nitpick, and Y'all done conjured Nonie out her corner knowing she was gonna come and set y'all straight...
> 
> Someone earlier said, she didn't want to lie to her--well, no one is lying to OP to make her feel better.... And everyone disagreeing with her claim didn't help no one by "coming to her rescue" by informing her that she is not quite SL (cause u like to keep it REAL)....*Are you trying to call us fake???? (rolls eyes) UGH....*
> 
> Good growth OP!


 
I wasn't the one that said it but to interject, yes some posters are fake. How many times do some of them come into this forum and THANK others to their hearts delight, making comments they KNOW they don't mean? Yet they make snarky remarks in other sections tombout they can't stand when posters raise up their bra straps, position their necks in certain ways or whatever other methods they use to create fraudulent length? So you're going to front like you've never seen this? Let there have been a Random Thought thread in Off Topic and someone would have alluded to the delusional poster as subtly as they could without Making Da Banned. 

Thanks and agreement mean ish! And not for nothing, some posters are notorious for starting ish. The one who disagreed if you pay attention to her font is not that sorta person. 

People can post all the diagrams they want. I can create one too and call SL the NEW BSL! Does that make it correct? What part of SHOULDER length does not indicate the hair should be COMFORTABLY touching the shoulder? Let me go and twist into a pretzel and force my poor strands to touch my bra-strap and claim BSL! Of course, I will use a diagram to indicate the truth.


----------



## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 22, 2011)

Lucie said:


> I wasn't the one that said it but to interject, yes some posters are fake. How many times do some of them come into this forum and THANK others to their hearts delight, making comments they KNOW they don't mean? Yet they make snarky remarks in other sections tombout they can't stand when posters raise up their bra straps, position their necks in certain ways or whatever other methods they use to create fraudulent length? So you're going to front like you've never seen this? Let there have been a Random Thought thread in Off Topic and someone would have alluded to the delusional poster as subtly as they could without Making Da Banned.
> 
> Thanks and agreement mean ish! And not for nothing, some posters are notorious for starting ish. The one who disagreed if you pay attention to her font is not that sorta person.
> 
> People can post all the diagrams they want. I can create one too and call SL the NEW BSL! Does that make it correct? What part of SHOULDER length does not indicate the hair should be COMFORTABLY touching the shoulder? Let me go and twist into a pretzel and force my poor strands to touch my bra-strap and claim BSL! Of course, I will use a diagram to indicate the truth.



I hear you (many people are fake about the thanks they give), but I don't like when people paint every1 trying to be encouraging as fake. For many it comes from a genuine place. I will agree that some people make fraudulent claims but that's not the case here... And if it is fraudulent, what is it to every1 else what she claims? There is no Hair Length Police on LHCF!!!! When I see some1 make a claim that I think is not quite there yet, I either move on, or say "good growth"---as many did here....what purpose does it serve to "check" somebody on their growth? All that dialogue about "twisting into a pretzel", is just yada yada to me----makes no point or any sense. I am just saying all the arguing serves no purpose. We are supposed to be encouraging each other. In an environment such as this, where so many people are struggling to get through their journey, the last thing we need is the Length Police checking for the right spot for the hair to land.....let people see the charts, examine themselves and claim what they want to claim. The rest is just negativity making the things people hear about this site true indeed. JMHO... No shade to you Lucie....just a lil rant....


----------



## BrownieBrie (Oct 22, 2011)

Folks acting like she has a TWA and is claiming tailbone. She *may* be an inch or so from shoulder length depending on how you define the milestone.  6 pages of debate over relative anatomy and an inch of hair.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 23, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Charla can you include yo' shoulders in the pics so I don't have to go borrowing some for you.


 I can't do any situps tonight....


----------



## loved (Oct 23, 2011)

*Inspiration*

Nice progress, OP. I'm considering letting go of the relaxer & I'd be happy to have your progress by this time next year.


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 23, 2011)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> I hear you (many people are fake about the thanks they give), but I don't like when people paint every1 trying to be encouraging as fake. For many it comes from a genuine place. I will agree that some people make fraudulent claims but that's not the case here... And if it is fraudulent, what is it to every1 else what she claims? There is no Hair Length Police on LHCF!!!! When I see some1 make a claim that I think is not quite there yet, I either move on, or say "good growth"---as many did here....what purpose does it serve to "check" somebody on their growth? All that dialogue about "twisting into a pretzel", is just yada yada to me----makes no point or any sense. I am just saying all the arguing serves no purpose. We are supposed to be encouraging each other. In an environment such as this, where so many people are struggling to get through their journey, the last thing we need is the Length Police checking for the right spot for the hair to land.....let people see the charts, examine themselves and claim what they want to claim. The rest is just negativity making the things people hear about this site true indeed. JMHO... No shade to you Lucie....just a lil rant....




No one is being length police and no one is throwing shade and "Keeping it real" is a joke.  You don't even know me like that so don't go there. Yes people are struggling with their journey. However, I refuse to lie to another person because it is the "polite" thing to do. I would rather someone be honest and upfront with me then lie and compliment me on something they KNOW is not true. If a person tells me the truth, at least I would know better how to proceed with my journey. It was a simple statement and it is funny to me how people took it to a whole different level. "Hating, keeping it real, etc." All of that is still not going to change my mind. She is still not there yet. She is making progress but she is still NOT there yet. So call it what you will.

This thread reminds me of this. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM


----------



## SmileyNY (Oct 23, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Charla can you include yo' shoulders in the pics so I don't have to go borrowing some for you.



lmao!!!! This is just... I'm dead. 

  






Sent from my iPhone.


----------



## BillsBackerz67 (Oct 23, 2011)

I know for myself and my goals I would not consider her length as SL. I have to be "full" (insert length here) in order to claim it. Im anal like that. According to this thread people would argue now that I am SL but until I get to the length Tyra Banks is in my attached pic I aint there yet. Tomato Tomoto.


----------



## FearfullyMade (Oct 23, 2011)

Good  for you


----------



## Nonie (Oct 23, 2011)

@BillsBackerz67 how are you not at the same length as Tyra if your avi is the length you're talking about? 







Your hair in your avi isn't even bone straight but has a wave in it and it's touching your body where Tyra's bone-straight hair is. So not sure why you think her hair is longer than yours in that pic. I am beginning to think hair-norexia is a real condition.

I am like you, Billsbackerz, in that I wait until there can be no doubt I am where I claim to be. But when we keep posting photos of people who wear their hair straight (like Tyra), we forget she's going for a blunt cut and it's necessary for her style for all the hair to fall to one length. This would not work for people with kinky hair who do not plan to wear it straight all the time or who want to keep all the strands the same length. And so the images that @Theresamonet posted earlier showing layers where the crown was at ear length and the nape at shoulder and said that they were not shoulder-length would be a good poster child for what not to call SL if we were all planning to wear hanging straight hair all falling to the same point. I'm not, and neither is OP. And because there will never be a time when all my hair falls to the same length, and without there being another way to measure length but the one that shows where falls at the back, we can't keep changing up the script and showing people's frontal view when the chart has always focused on where the hair falls at the back.

If Charla had done what most people do and just had her hair flat-ironed straight and smoothed back it'd have looked like the SL hair in this thread. Oh and before you all start saying that this link shows hair that reaches further down her back, I'd like to point out that when you raise your arms up, your shoulders and back move up a bit too, so of course the hair will appear to fall farther down your back. The hair at the crown of the OP whose thread I just linked to isn't reaching shoulders but no one questions her SL claim because all that LHCF has ever cared about is what we can see when we look at the hair from the back, when it is straight. The rest of the hair just blends in with the rest and we only pay attention to where the hair reaches when viewed from the back.


----------



## reeko43 (Oct 23, 2011)

I have seen several different descriptions for sl in this thread alone. Nothing seems consistent! How confusing   I guess it is just best to do one of the following:

1. heed the one poster's advice and wait till you are 2 inches beyond a certain point to claim the length.

2. NEVER EVER post a picture on the forum claiming a specific length.

3. Just post your progress in your siggy but make no statement about it.

4. Post your picture and ask the forum in a poll to tell you what the length is.

5. Add photo convincing extensions and become one of the newest hair idols here


----------



## BillsBackerz67 (Oct 23, 2011)

Nonie I cut 10" of my hair off in June into a blunt above SL bob  That avi is not how I currently wear my hair. I attached a pic (1st pic). And trust me I am far from having hair-norexiaWhen OP posted her pics even before Tamrin commented I didnt agree that she was shoulder length by my standards. However she's close. But my standards dont count and shouldnt matter anyway. Its not that serious. Her hair is still gorge none the less.

Oh and speaking of flat ironing. I think Charla's hair straightened would be about or close to the length of the second pic in the orange shirt which is about 1 year of growth for myself. yes the nape touches my shoulders but the front not so much. When I was that length I personally didnt consider myself SL.


----------



## mizspecialk (Oct 23, 2011)

Lucie said:


> I wasn't the one that said it but to interject, yes some posters are fake. *How many times do some of them come into this forum and THANK others to their hearts delight, making comments they KNOW they don't mean? Yet they make snarky remarks in other sections tombout they can't stand when posters raise up their bra straps, position their necks in certain ways or whatever other methods they use to create fraudulent length?* *So you're going to front like you've never seen this? Let there have been a Random Thought thread in Off Topic and someone would have alluded to the delusional poster as subtly as they could without Making Da Banned*.
> 
> Thanks and agreement mean ish! And not for nothing, some posters are notorious for starting ish. The one who disagreed if you pay attention to her font is not that sorta person.
> 
> People can post all the diagrams they want. I can create one too and call SL the NEW BSL! Does that make it correct? What part of SHOULDER length does not indicate the hair should be COMFORTABLY touching the shoulder? Let me go and twist into a pretzel and force my poor strands to touch my bra-strap and claim BSL! Of course, I will use a diagram to indicate the truth.


 
CHURCH!!! I'm relatively new here and I noticed the insincere, passive agressive behavior almost immediately. There is A LOT of that on this forum. I call it being ''fakey nice''. 

There are also a lot of posters on here who seriously overestimate the length of their hair. Maybe some members think they are helping these women out by cosigning on their delusional posts and telling them that their obviously neck or nape length hair is shoulder or collarbone length? Y'all are just setting them up for frustration and confusion later on. Folks are always complaining about how it is taking them soooo long to get from shoulder to armpit length. It's probably taking forever because their ''shoulder length'' hair was actually neck length.


----------



## lilyofthenile (Oct 23, 2011)

Charla said:


> Thanks, @KumakoXsd  What I learned about my nape that might help is that it's fine textured whereas the rest of my hair is med and coarse.  So since it's fine, I feel like it's prone to damage easier, so I try to do stuff that won't harm it like I no longer wear combs in my wigs, I don't cornrow my nape (I leave about the bottom 1" out), I seal it a little heavier than the rest of my hair, and when I do wear the occasional puff and putting on my long goody band, I made sure I don't let it rub against my nape as I'm inching it higher to form the puff.  Doing all these things has preserved my nape.  HTH!



Wow our hairs sound very similar! 

The hair on my nape is very fine. I will follow the advice of sealing it heavier. I'm currently having it in braids and I find that to be quite helpful because I'm manipulating the hair a whole lot less. Thanks again =) Happy growing =)


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 23, 2011)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> I know for myself and my goals I would not consider her length as SL. I have to be "full" (insert length here) in order to claim it. Im anal like that. According to this thread people would argue now that I am SL but until I get to the length Tyra Banks is in my attached pic I aint there yet. Tomato Tomoto.



So what's collarbone length?


----------



## DDTexlaxed (Oct 23, 2011)

Great job on retaining most of your growth!   Keep up the great work! I think we can get side tracked on the length thing sometimes and forget the more important things. Your regimen is working great for you. You're inspiring others with your progress!


----------



## chelleypie810 (Oct 23, 2011)

Charla you shoulda stayed in the shoulder length challenge thread


----------



## Platinum (Oct 23, 2011)

This thread is a hot mess.

Charla, congratulations on your progress!


----------



## RarityFluttershy (Oct 23, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Charla can you include yo' shoulders in the pics so I don't have to go borrowing some for you.


*Please Stop. Please Stop.*


----------



## Solitude (Oct 23, 2011)

JeterCrazed said:


> So what's collarbone length?



JeterCrazed

This question was not directed at me, but the collarbone, or clavicle, is below the neck and above the shoulders blades. This is why I have never understood people saying bottom of neck, collar bone, and SL are the same. The difference may be several inches or only a couple, depending on your body. 

It doesn't matter how many charts people make up, or how many shoulders a person draws onto someone's else's body. Your shoulders are below your collar. Your collar is below your neck.


----------



## Beautytalk69 (Oct 23, 2011)

Okay i have looked at all these diagrams..and I just can't! Like I said, if my nape is going to dictate if I'm whatever length..well I have been shoulder length for a long a$$ time. I'm not going to walk around saying I'm shoulder length when the crown of my head doesn't even reach the bottom of my ear. That's just me..carry on.


----------



## LaidBak (Oct 23, 2011)

Oh. My. F-ing. God.  Utterly ridiculous. 6 pages of arguing over SL?  Diagrams?  Charts? Photoshopping body parts onto the OP???   Wow...

Like I said before when somebody tried to check me on a length definition  "Longer then it was last time I checked" is all that matters.

ETA: Great growth OP!  Congrats on your progress.


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 23, 2011)

I can't believe I woke up to a thread of Charlas head attached to a different body. Somedays I REALLY love the lhcf lol.


----------



## HanaKuroi (Oct 23, 2011)

I am just wondering why we don't just use a tape measure? This is how everything else in the world is measured. We use scales and rulers. IMHO it is much simpler to say I grew 5 inches and have a picture of your hair and a ruler. No more arguing.


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


----------



## Nonie (Oct 23, 2011)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> @Nonie I cut 10" of my hair off in June into a blunt above SL bob That avi is not how I currently wear my hair. I attached a pic (1st pic). And trust me I am far from having hair-norexiaWhen OP posted her pics even before Tamrin commented I didnt agree that she was shoulder length by my standards. However she's close. But my standards dont count and shouldnt matter anyway. Its not that serious. Her hair is still gorge none the less.
> 
> Oh and speaking of flat ironing. I think Charla's hair straightened would be about or close to the length of the second pic in the orange shirt which is about 1 year of growth for myself. yes the nape touches my shoulders but the front not so much. When I was that length I personally didnt consider myself SL.


 
Aah... I'm with you now. Gotcha! And you may be right about her hair looking like the bob in the second pic. I also concur on everyone having different standards for themselves. My thinking about my own hair is like yours. However, if someone with a bob like you posted in the second photo were to stretch it out (not curl it under like that) and then turn her back so that we have no idea what the sides are doing and only saw the back and she called it SL, clearly by the chart's standards (not ours) it would be correct. 

The idea of covering the shoulders is a new one or a personal one because first of all, to cover shoulders, the sides need to be the ones reaching down there, since the shoulders are to the side and not the back. Otherwise, the hair has to be long in the back so we can sweep it forward to "cover the shoulders".

Bottom line being, if someone announces that she's at SL, it should just matter if she's reached THE LINE. What *I* or anyone uses for own determination has no bearing on what is before us. Does the back reach the line has always been the way we all agreed that length should be. Some people with straight relaxed hair will even pull it down, and we don't hear anyone saying anything about that, when that is what can be viewed as reaching, esp if hair isn't wavy.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 23, 2011)

HanaKuroi said:


> I am just wondering why we don't just use a tape measure? This is how everything else in the world is measured. We use scales and rulers. IMHO it is much simpler to say I grew 5 inches and have a picture of your hair and a ruler. No more arguing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


 
HanaKuroi LOL I agree if we are just sharing how much length we acquired in a certain time, then inches would be best. But in the past, the inches have been exaggerated too.  I once showed 4-5 inches of growth and some were not convinced so I took a photo of my forehead and a tape measure against it so it could be used a reference to confirm that indeed I am holding out 5 inches.

I think @LaidBak's suggestion just to show before and after with the photos making sure to keep the heads the same size or having the same reference (be it same shirt or sitting on same chair) w/o any mention of what that is called is best. Because all people are doing is showing their progress. Not trying to fool people or impress or mislead. And if someone posts their pic with a lean back and you don't disagree, just KIM. Unless she asks "What length am I?" I think we can just give kudos and KIM. This is not a jab at those who didn't agree with OP, but a suggestion that I think would keep the peace.


----------



## formysanity (Oct 23, 2011)

I won't comment on whether the OP is SL or not, but to me, these pics below are SL hair. I outside of LHCF, these pics would be considered SL. To be honest, I've never heard the term APL outside of LHCF. The white people I know, consider APL to be SL



Theresamonet said:


> IMO, to publicly claim SL one should have more than just the nape layer resting on their shoulders.


----------



## nzeee (Oct 23, 2011)

Nonie said:


> I think @LaidBak's suggestion just to show before and after with the photos making sure to keep the heads the same size or having the same reference (be it same shirt or sitting on same chair) w/o any mention of what that is called is best. Because all people are doing is showing their progress. Not trying to fool people or impress or mislead. And if someone posts their pic with a lean back and you don't disagree, just KIM. Unless she asks "What length am I?" I think we can just give kudos and KIM. This is not a jab at those who didn't agree with OP, but a suggestion that I think would keep the peace.



^^ ITA: this thread is exactly that and brings so much awesomeness: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=239977

no length claims or arguments. just people showing their progress with before & (current) after pics in chronological order. eazy peazy.

not saying people can't claim whatever they want or need to bow down to dissenters; just agreeing that showing pics w/out making a claim appears to be a much less contentious way of showing progress. i know when i finally get comfortable w/ my length if i do start a thread that's the way it's going down. don't need you heffer's pulling out the charts and virtual tape measures 

J/K don't stone me


----------



## LaidBak (Oct 23, 2011)

nzeee said:


> ^^ ITA: this thread is exactly that and brings so much awesomeness: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=239977
> 
> no length claims or arguments. just people showing their progress with before & (current) after pics in chronological order. eazy peazy.
> 
> ...




LOVE THAT!!


----------



## Nonie (Oct 23, 2011)

YaaAsantewaa said:


> I won't comment on whether the OP is SL or not, but to me, these pics below are SL hair. I outside of LHCF, these pics would be considered SL. To be honest, I've never heard the term APL outside of LHCF. The white people I know, consider APL to be SL


 
@YaaAsantewaa, indeed this photo does show what the world at large calls SL. But what this photo doesn't do is follow what has been the norm on hair forums like LHCF, which is VIEW LENGTH FROM THE BACK against set milestones along the back. Granted the chart falls short because it doesn't address layers and it doesn't address hair that doesn't hang like straight hair does or hair that isn't cut blunt to fall to one length. But it's what we've used for years. So while out in the world, we can speak the tongue of the masses, as long as we're on LHCF, people can claim their lengths based on what the back does because that's how it has always been. 

Of course anyone posting their length does so at his or her own risk and yes newbies or outsiders will give you the side-eye for even mentioning you are at omega length when your front is at alpha length. But that's because they don't speak or haven't learned LHCF-speak. I have been here since 2003 so I think I have some authority to translate the tongue of the land.


----------



## formysanity (Oct 23, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @YaaAsantewaa, indeed this photo does show what the world at large calls SL. But what this photo doesn't do is follow what has been the norm on hair forums like LHCF, which is VIEW LENGTH FROM THE BACK against set milestones along the back. Granted the chart falls short because it doesn't address layers and it doesn't address hair that doesn't hang like straight hair does or hair that isn't cut blunt to fall to one length. But it's what we've used for years. So while out in the world, we can speak the tongue of the masses, as long as we're on LHCF, people can claim their lengths based on what the back does because that's how it has always been.
> 
> Of course anyone posting their length does so at his or her own risk and yes newbies or outsiders will give you the side-eye for even mentioning you are at omega length when your front is at alpha length. But that's because they don't speak or haven't learned LHCF-speak. I have been here since 2003 so I think I have some authority to translate the tongue of the land.



Nonie, I've lurked for long enough to see you dropping knowledge on peeps so I bow to you. I totally get that on LHCF OP would be considered SL but I think people who disagree with the OPs claim to SL are doing so because they are using real life terminology to describe SL hair rather than LHCF terminology. In fact my own hair is of that length, but to me, my hair is bottom of my neck length even though the nape stretches to my collar bone.


----------



## allmundjoi (Oct 23, 2011)

Fyi the clavicle and scapula are at approx the same level/height, in fact the superior portion of the scapula (acromion) is higher than the clavicle. Ijs. Lol.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 23, 2011)

Solitude said:


> @JeterCrazed
> 
> This question was not directed at me, but the collarbone, or clavicle, is below the neck and above the shoulders blades. This is why I have never understood people saying bottom of neck, collar bone, and SL are the same. The difference may be several inches or only a couple, depending on your body.
> 
> It doesn't matter how many charts people make up, or how many shoulders a person draws onto someone's else's body. Your shoulders are below your collar. Your collar is below your neck.


 
@JeterCrazed, @Solitude not in English: Collarbone is not above SHOULDERS. The names of bones have little to do with the names of body parts. As I posted previously, what in English we call shoulders is not where the bone with a similar name is located, and the same applies to hips and hipbone. 

Also the image you selected is misleading because if you know anatomy, what's being shown here is the top of the shoulder blade (scapula) as viewed from anterior (front). The shoulder blade is a triangular bone that sticks out in the back on most people and it is its position on the back that led us to select it in lieu of BSL to determine the next level after APL because it is going to remain constant in everyone (unlike bras) and it is a good milestone between APL and MBL. The position of the bone does not mean shoulders now fall below APL because bones and body parts do not necessarily go hand in hand. 

Here's an image showing the side view of a human skeleton:






Source of image: http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/aplab/Practical Two/Appendicular/Pectoralgirdle.htm

So what your image is pointing at where it says "scapula/shoulder girdle" is the arm of the scapula (shoulder-blade) known as the acromion that joins the clavicle (collarbone). But the bones themselves regardless of what name they are given have nothing to do with body parts. 

When we refer to our shoulders, we are talking about the top part of our torso that is covered by flesh and skin and that we can see. No one is talking about bones when they refer to their shoulders. The noun refers to the body part shown below:




So if hair reaches that part, then it has reached shoulders. That the shoulders are wide and slant down so that the lowest part is at the level of the clavicle is the only reason many of use wait to get to the clavicle to claim SL because that is the final point at which one can be at shoulder length. It is for this reason we call it FULL SL, because beyond that, you are no longer at SL. From the point you leave NL until you reach your collarbone, you are indeed at your shoulders. Not at your SHOULDER BLADE but at your SHOULDERS.

ETA: These images show how the shoulder bone appears when viewed over flesh:





For our purposes here on LHCF, the next length after APL is when hair gets to and passes the lowest point of the shoulder blade, hence the BSB (below shoulder blade) mark that I show below--this image below BTW wasn't created for this discussion so ignore all the other stuff about MBL; I am using it just to show the area we now use in lieu of BSL:


----------



## allmundjoi (Oct 23, 2011)

Lol Nonie and the anatomy lesson.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 23, 2011)

YaaAsantewaa said:


> @Nonie, I've lurked for long enough to see you dropping knowledge on peeps so I bow to you. I totally get that on LHCF OP would be considered SL but I think people who disagree with the OPs claim to SL are doing so because they are using real life terminology to describe SL hair rather than LHCF terminology. In fact my own hair is of that length, but to me, my hair is bottom of my neck length even though the nape stretches to my collar bone.


 
@YaaAsantewaa, I totally hear you and even I have stated over and over again that on Google SL is not what we deem SL to be on LHCF. And I do also understand you not wanting to claim it for yourself--heck I didn't either. 

But what I don't agree with is us using OUR own standards to judge what _until_ this thread has so far been LHCF's way of determining length. It was always where/which line straight hair touched when viewed from the back, not where it fell or in the case of SL, if it covered shoulders. Heck when people claim MBL and WL etc, most stretch the hair to show it _touches_ the line that goes through that point. So all I'm saying is, if one sees a claim they do not agree with, just KIM and do you. You don't have to claim it when you get there if that's not your truth. Instead when it comes to you, post what you feel comfortable calling whatever. But let's not change up the script now when since 2003 when I first joined, thiings were always done the way I've been trying to explain in this thread: that is, length determined by the line on the chart that the back of one's hair touched when straight or stretched if natural.


----------



## blueberryd (Oct 23, 2011)

When you sing the song, "Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes", people/kids generally don't touch the base of their neck, they usually will touch the tip of their shoulders--which is what SL should be IMO....not directed toward OP--lol jus jumpin in the SL debate


----------



## danniegirl (Oct 23, 2011)

blueberryd said:


> When you sing the song, "Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes", people/kids generally don't touch the base of their neck, they usually will touch the tip of their shoulders--which is what SL should be IMO....not directed toward OP--lol jus jumpin in the SL debate



I want to jump in too 

We touch the tip of our shoulders in that song but when we are rubbing our shoulders we don't just rub the tip. 

So dont just rub the tip lmao ladies embrace the whole thing it so much more then just the tip.  


Sent from my iPod touch using LHCF


----------



## Nonie (Oct 23, 2011)

blueberryd said:


> When you sing the song, "Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes", people/kids generally don't touch the base of their neck, they usually will touch the tip of their shoulders--which is what SL should be IMO....not directed toward OP--lol jus jumpin in the SL debate


 


danniegirl said:


> I want to jump in too
> 
> We touch the tip of our shoulders in that song but when we are rubbing our shoulders we don't just rub the tip.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you @danniegirl; I particularly love your last line^^ (in bold). 

@blueberryd LOL @ bringing out the song. But I think that's just because we're moving fast and usually whip our hands outwards before bringing them knees. I have always just tapped the center of my shoulder not just the tip. English is my third language and even back when I learned that song in nursery school, I never understood it to just mean that the tip is the shoulder. I clearly understood it as shown in this diagram from www.judyanddavid.com:






So let's embrace the whole thing, as danniegirl suggests.


----------



## Theresamonet (Oct 23, 2011)

This debate kind of made me think back to the thread where we were asked "what is long hair to you" and so many people were arguing that SL hair was long hair. Now this thread makes me wonder what those posters had in mind when they were saying that Sl was long hair. I can't imagine that they mean't that someone with a 3 inch neck with 3.5 inches of nape hair has long hair. I think in our minds we imagine SL hair to be longer than where our shoulders actually start.

I think what a poster above said about APL being SL hair in real life, is true. We have convoluted that area in an effort to have a milestone at every turn. We have NL, CBL, SL, FSL, and APL all in a relatively small area. There is bound to be confusion.


----------



## DrC (Oct 23, 2011)

Nonie said:


> I agree with you @danniegirl; I particularly love your last line^^ (in bold).
> 
> @blueberryd LOL @ bringing out the song. But I think that's just because we're moving fast and usually whip our hands outwards before bringing them knees. I have always just tapped the center of my shoulder not just the tip. English is my third language and even back when I learned that song in nursery school, I never understood it to just mean that the tip is the shoulder. I clearly understood it as shown in this diagram from www.judyanddavid.com:
> 
> ...


----------



## pookaloo83 (Oct 23, 2011)

Nonie you got me in stitches!


----------



## Amerie123 (Oct 23, 2011)

CONGRATS on your progress OP !!!!!!!!! Your hair looks very healthy!!!


----------



## blueberryd (Oct 23, 2011)

LMAO! Ahhhh touche' @danniegirl and @Nonie 

How about we invent a new length--TRAPEZIUS length! LMAO jk! 
Have a good night ladies


----------



## Nonie (Oct 23, 2011)

blueberryd said:


> LMAO! touche' @danniegirl and @Nonie
> 
> How about we invent a new length--TRAPEZIUS length! LMAO jk!
> Have a good night ladies


 
blueberryd, you're so silly! So how are we going to know where the muscle ends when covered with skin? 

Girl, we already have enough probs so shshshsh... Don't give us ideas to start skinning folks.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 24, 2011)

blueberryd said:


> LMAO! Ahhhh touche' @danniegirl and @Nonie
> 
> How about we invent a new length--TRAPEZIUS length! LMAO jk!
> Have a good night ladies





Sent from my PC36100 using PC36100


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 24, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @JeterCrazed, @Solitude not in English: Collarbone is not above SHOULDERS. The names of bones have little to do with the names of body parts. As I posted previously, what in English we call shoulders is not where the bone with a similar name is located, and the same applies to hips and hipbone.
> 
> Also the image you selected is misleading because if you know anatomy, what's being shown here is the top of the shoulder blade (scapula) as viewed from anterior (front). The shoulder blade is a triangular bone that sticks out in the back on most people and it is its position on the back that led us to select it in lieu of BSL to determine the next level after APL because it is going to remain constant in everyone (unlike bras) and it is a good milestone between APL and MBL. The position of the bone does not mean shoulders now fall below APL because bones and body parts do not necessarily go hand in hand.
> 
> ...


 
And this is what I was getting at earlier in the thread, the actual shoulders sit well below what we call SL, I know this b/c I took anatomy & even though we call a certain part the shoulders, its not accurate - we just call it that. No other body part is as misnamed as the shoulder, every other part is at the same place, skin or no skin - a tibia is a tibia is a tibia, why not the shoulder then too? I dont get it, but I play along to keep confusion down. Also why I was thrown off b/c it seems some were basing SL on the actual shoulder & I dont think its because of the English language, its because most people donf really know accurate anatomy. What we call SL isnt really. what we call SL is really upper back, below the neck, collar bone, clavice- but not SL. 

I mean, dont we have some nurses or Dr's on here we know the truth? 

@Nonie?
Sent from my PC36100 using PC36100


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 24, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> And this is what I was getting at earlier in the thread, the actual shoulders sit well below what we call SL, I know this b/c I took anatomy & even though we call a certain part the shoulders, its not accurate - we just call it that.  No other body part is as misnamed as the shoulder, every other part is at the same place, skin or no skin - a tibia is a tibia is a tibia, why not the shoulder then too? I dont get it, but I play along to keep confusion down. Also why I was thrown off b/c it seems some were basing SL on the actual shoulder & I dont think its because of the English language, its because most people don't really know accurate anatomy. What we call SL isnt really, not if we're being technical.  The area we call SL is really clavicle, collar bone, neck bone, stermum maybe & a bit of the top back bone, not the shoulder though..... Nope.
> 
> I mean, dont we have some nurses or Dr's on here we know the truth?
> 
> ...



Double post

Sent from my PC36100 using PC36100


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 24, 2011)

I think this pic is the most accurate in correctly showing how the shoulders sit in the human body. The red, purple and blue arrows show where the shoulders actually are - and technically SL is much lower on the body that what we claim. The shoulders are not and have never been that high on the body and, unless you've got too much cushion/flesh, you can reach around your body & feel your shoulder. At the very least you can see them in  the mirror.







And, the clavicle does indeed rest above the scapula. They connect, but the clavicle is on top. That's really what people touch when we say they are touching our shoulders.  I don't need a chart to tell me that either, because I remember being in anatomy class holding the bones & the professor illustrating where the shoulders/clavicle actually is and all that time I had it wrong. 


Not to turn this into an anatomy lesson or nothing, but it is what it is.


----------



## NaturalPath (Oct 24, 2011)

So I have taken anatomy and physiology since I am at a chiropractic college (chiros really know their bones lol) so because their seems to be a lot of confusion of where exactly the hair length landmarks are. The most accurate way of depicting this IMO is to go by vertebrae levels (which I am sure everyone has someone they can ask to help define these points). *






End of neck length*: C7 (most prominent bump on your cervical spine); since anatomically the cervical (neck) vertebrae is from C1-C7.

*Shoulder length*: 

1. *Anatomically*: At the beginning of T3 this is where the horizontal plane of the root of the scapular spine is located.
2. *Physically:* T1 represents the beginning of the thoracic area which would represents where you see the physical shoulders of a person.

**Honestly, I think either locations are fairly accurate, if you go to the doctor and complain of shoulder pain then they will understand that you mean from the T1 aspect or where the trapezius kind of begins. 

**As has already been mentioned the clavicle sits superiority to the scapula and therefore is not represented as being on the same level as the scapula nor what is determined as being SL

*Arm pit length:* Easy to define, no real cause for controversy

*Below Shoulder Blade*: Horizontal plane of the Inferior angle of the scapula in relation to the human spine is located at T8 (previously located at T7)
***No longer using Bra Strap Length since everyone's bra straps are variable and not consistent with daily use*

*(natural)Waist length* : Variable, easy to distinguish no real cause for controversy

*MBL:* At T12 represents the halfway point between the inferior angle of the scapula (T7/T8) ---> superior margin of the iliac crests

*Hip length*:L4/ L5 where your hands are placed sitting on top of superior margin of the iliac crests



**** Oh and you can not use the Trapezius as it is such a *LARGE* spanding muscle extending from C7-T12


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 24, 2011)

Mane_Attraxion said:


> So I have taken anatomy and physiology since I am at a chiropractic college (chiros really know their bones lol) so because their seems to be a lot of confusion of where exactly the hair length landmarks are. The most accurate way of depicting this IMO is to go by vertebrae levels (which I am sure everyone has someone they can ask to help define these points).
> 
> *
> 
> ...


 




(((HUGS))) Thank you for clarifying that!


----------



## wavezncurlz (Oct 24, 2011)

OMG. 
THIS IS WHY I DON'T TRY TO SAY HOW LONG MY HAIR IS.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Oct 24, 2011)

Nonie said:


> I agree with you @danniegirl; I particularly love your last line^^ (in bold).
> 
> @blueberryd LOL @ bringing out the song. But I think that's just because we're moving fast and usually whip our hands outwards before bringing them knees. I have always just tapped the center of my shoulder not just the tip. English is my third language and even back when I learned that song in nursery school, I never understood it to just mean that the tip is the shoulder. I clearly understood it as shown in this diagram from www.judyanddavid.com:
> 
> ...






Whooooo!!!!!!!


----------



## Nonie (Oct 24, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> *And this is what I was getting at earlier in the thread, the actual shoulders sit well below what we call SL, I know this b/c I took anatomy & even though we call a certain part the shoulders, its not accurate* - we just call it that.


 
Sorry, I call this BS. Bone names have never had anything to do with body parts. So no, what we calls shoulders is what shoulders are. Who said that bone names determined body parts? Where on earth did you get this lie from? 

The word "shoulder" came into the English language before the 12th century. It referred and has always referred to the top part of the torso that starts from the bottom of the neck to the part where the arm joins the torso. So what do you mean it's inaccurate?  The word scapula aka shoulder blade came into the English language in 1578 and refers to the trianglular bone in the back. The shoulder girdle is covered with flesh and skin and is that top surface after you've added flesh and skin that is SHOULDER. Not the bones. 



> No other body part is as misnamed as the shoulder, every other part is at the same place, skin or no skin - a tibia is a tibia is a tibia, why not the shoulder then too? I dont get it, but I play along to keep confusion down. Also why I was thrown off b/c it seems some were basing SL on the actual shoulder & I dont think its because of the English language, its because most people donf really know accurate anatomy. What we call SL isnt really. what we call SL is really upper back, below the neck, collar bone, clavice- but not SL.


 
I don't understand how come you are not able to separate science from everyday language. I mean, no one speaking in layman terms talks about tibia, femur etc. And you are wrong about there not being any other part of the body that has names that don't correspond with the bones. I just talked about hips and hipbone earlier. One's way higher than the other. I mean, if you're going to be so literal, then what's the funny bone? Is it near the funny? And is the collar bone up by the neck where the collar sits? And why do we have one breast bone when we have two breast and why isn't it inside the breasts? (Oh dear, it's in the wrong place!).  



> I mean, dont we have some nurses or Dr's on here we know the truth?


'
I'm neither, but I also did anatomy and physiology and also took English and I know enough to know that the two fields should not be confused with each other. The only time a bone becomes important in this hair chart is when it's a bone that sticks out (like the collarbone which happens to be at the lowest level of shoulder so works as a check for "final point of SL"; and the shoulder blade because it too sticks out in the back at the point where BSL would be so works better since its position is constant; and the hipbone, because it too sticks out right after the waist) so you can feel it outside the skin. The other parts are obvious: waist goes in, hips go out, tailbone is at the top of butt crack, middle of back is halfway down the back, etc.


----------



## pookaloo83 (Oct 24, 2011)

Nonie go hard in the paint!


----------



## yorkpatties (Oct 24, 2011)

Nonie said:


> And you are wrong about there not being any other part of the body that has names that don't correspond with the bones. I just talked about hips and hipbone earlier. One's way higher than the other. *I mean, if you're going to be so literal, then what's the funny bone? Is it near the funny?*



*EPIC WIN!!!*


----------



## kittenz (Oct 24, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Sorry, I call this BS. Bone names have never had anything to do with body parts. So no, what we calls shoulders is what shoulders are. Who said that bone names determined body parts? Where on earth did you get this lie from?
> 
> The word "shoulder" came into the English language before the 12th century. It referred and has always referred to the top part of the torso that starts from the bottom of the neck to the part where the arm joins the torso. So what do you mean it's inaccurate?  The word scapula aka shoulder blade came into the English language in 1578 and refers to the trianglular bone in the back. The shoulder girdle is covered with flesh and skin and is that top surface after you've added flesh and skin that is SHOULDER. Not the bones.
> 
> ...


 I LOVE ALL OF THIS!!  Extra points for the bolded.


----------



## lesedi (Oct 24, 2011)

I agree with the poster who said OP is probably WSL now after all this back and forth


----------



## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 24, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> No one is being length police and no one is throwing shade and "Keeping it real" is a joke. You don't even know me like that so don't go there. Yes people are struggling with their journey. However, I refuse to lie to another person because it is the "polite" thing to do. I would rather someone be honest and upfront with me then lie and compliment me on something they KNOW is not true. If a person tells me the truth, at least I would know better how to proceed with my journey. It was a simple statement and it is funny to me how people took it to a whole different level. "Hating, keeping it real, etc." All of that is still not going to change my mind. She is still not there yet. She is making progress but she is still NOT there yet. So call it what you will.
> 
> This thread reminds me of this.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM


 

No I don't know you and I am not trying to start anything with you. I didn't even realize YOU were the one who made a comment, or were the person Lucie was thinking of (I guess). Not only that but I don't even remember me or Lucie even mentioning your name!!!! So why the hell are u even addressing me? Now--- I noticed a few ppl did make comments of that nature but since you stepped up then fine. 

All I am saying is sometimes we go out of our way to point something out to someone in the name of "not lying to people" which is fine, but people don't realize how negative it can be. You choose to go out of your way correcting what you think is a mistake, and I choose to let them feel the way they want to. So that does make u the Police! I mean really---if you chose NOT to correct her that would've been just fine. But noooo, some ppl can't sleep unless they set someone straight bc they don't some1 to be walkin around thinking something else....furthermore  if he feels SL is a certain spot on her shoulders then damn let it be!!! All this is just semantics. Its not about hating its just some daggone tomfoolery at this point....

 I just thought this site was supposed to be about positivity. At the same time, you still seem to be painting all others who choose not to "correct her mistake" as a bunch of fakers or liars and that's not cool. I can understand the desire not to lie, but don't paint every1 with the same brush.....You have your opinion, I have mine...Oh well.


----------



## Tamster (Oct 24, 2011)

This thread is so damn extra!!!!!


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 24, 2011)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> No I don't know you and I am not trying to start anything with you. I didn't even realize YOU were the one who made a comment, or were the person Lucie was thinking of (I guess). I noticed many did make comments of that nature but since you stepped up then fine. All I am saying is sometimes we go out of our way to point something out to someone in the name of "not lying to people" which is fine, but people don't realize how negative it can be. You choose to go out of your way correcting what you think is a mistake, and I choose to let them feel the way they want to. I just thought this site was supposed to be about positivity. At the same time, you still seem to be painting all others who choose not to "correct her mistake" as a bunch of fakers or liars and that's not cool. I can understand the desire not to lie, but don't paint every1 with the same brush.....You have your opinion, I have mine...Oh well.



I also have my opinion but please show me where I SAID everyone here are liars. Or better yet show me where I discouraged OP. We all have opinions and I don't have to change mine to make you or OP happy. Be happy with your opinion as I'am with mine. It is hilarious how this thread got this far due to the fact I said I don't agree with the OP's opinion of what SL is. What was the all " keeping it real" about? If I was, I choose to be real with myself. I honestly don't give a hoot what someone else thinks. It is my opinion and I intend to keep it so until I see different. All the extras are totally unnecessary. There is no hating, no keeping it real, no taking away shine, no nothing. OP is not SL to ME that is all that matters to ME. I can say it in this thread just like you are free to disagree. All the extra that is not there other people are seeing is funny. Let OP be great with her opinion of SL.

I have been been at  APL, chopped off it to 1.5 inches, I'm waay past where OP is now at 14 months and I'm not going to claim SL, cause to me it is not. That is MY opinion like it or not I don't need anyone to agree. Just like OP don't need to agree with me. To me paying attention to the opinions that does not agree is a way to look at yourself more objectively. 

The whole this forum is a positive place to me. Being positive does not mean you have to be false about your views. When I started a thread about being natural and not doing the extras everyone else is doing, I'm sure people probably ( not sure) commented on me needing to take batter care of my hair and I would see even more result if I did. I was not going to argue with them. They most offered an objective opinion and I took it as that and never got offended. It is life no one is going to agree with you all the time. If you think they should?  Opinions are like A-holes everyone has one. ((Kanye Shrug))


----------



## Nonie (Oct 24, 2011)

Mane_Attraxion said:


> So I have taken anatomy and physiology since I am at a chiropractic college (chiros really know their bones lol) so because their seems to be a lot of confusion of where exactly the hair length landmarks are. The most accurate way of depicting this IMO is to go by vertebrae levels (which I am sure everyone has someone they can ask to help define these points).
> 
> *
> 
> ...


 
Disagree. Too complicated for our purposes. I know I don't want to be feeling bones to determine length when I can just ID my neck, see where my neck ends and know the end.






 This is what I call neck. It starts from the bottom of what I call head and stops at what I call shoulders. Really easy for me to ID w/o all o' dat.



> *Shoulder length:*
> 
> 1. Anatomically: At the beginning of T3 this is where the horizontal plane of the root of the scapular spine is located.
> 2. Physically: T1 represents the beginning of the thoracic area which would represents where you see the physical shoulders of a person.
> ...


 
Again, not sure what doctor's understanding of location of bones of the body have to do with the figuring out what a shoulder is and where it is. LOL Y'all like to complicate matters. Not everyone is fascinated with science to be busy studying location of bones. So what are fat people who cannot feel their bones to do?




Just skip the shoulder bidness altogether because the bones are hard to feel, or shall we just use our eyes and look at the shoulder say "Oh look, your hair can reach shoulders so you must be at shoulder length!




> *Arm pit length:*Easy to define, no real cause for controversy


 
Just like the shoulder. No controversy for me and OP and a few others who agree with OP w/r/t shoulders. That top part of the body that goes from neck to arm is called shoulder. Easy to define...unless you're of course a mad scientist who cannot get your head out of science and views humans as bones and muscles and nerves and blood vessels so that even calling a neck a neck is hard coz you just see veins/arteries, bones, muscles with their names screaming in your head.  



> *Below Shoulder Blade:* Horizontal plane of the Inferior angle of the scapula in relation to the human spine is located at T8 (previously located at T7)
> ***No longer using Bra Strap Length since everyone's bra straps are variable and not consistent with daily use*


 
In layman's terms, BSB is the area immediately below that bone that sticks out in the back about the level of your boobs but in the back when you place your hand behind your back like the black and white lady. That^^ description would give me a mental block if I wasn't into science and just wanted to ID on the body the next marker. Scientists need to learn to speak human.  (This reminds me of why I think people are turned off Math or just decide in advance that they'll never get it. It's when Mathematicians explain things in highfalutin language when the audience isn't made of like-minded folk. Not saying there are no scientists reading this, but c'mon nah! How did we come to labeling vertebra to ID positions of the body that hair reaches? Someone would think we're discussing back pain and slipped discs.


*[*QUOTE] 
*(natural)Waist length :* Variable, easy to distinguish no real cause for controversy[/QUOTE]

OK



> *MBL:* At T12 represents the halfway point between the inferior angle of the scapula (T7/T8) ---> superior margin of the iliac crests


 
 How about just MBL = middle of the back (when you consider the back as being from the base of the neck to a little above your butt crack/below the small of the back and then taking the point halfway between those two points). That scientific explanation seems to assume people know what the ilium is and so will be able to figure out where the crest's curve is so as to locate the top part of it. I mean is anyone who isn't interested in human anatomy really concerned about these details? 



> *Hip length:*L4/ L5 where your hands are placed sitting on top of superior margin of the iliac crests


 
You mean *hipbone length*, right? In other words, hipbone is that bone that you rest your hands on if you placed your hand a little below the waist or even on your waist--when you hold your hands akimbo. It's the only bone you feel on the side immediately below your waist. IMO hip length is different from hipbone length and it is when your hair is about halfway down your butt ie reaching the part of your body where your hips are. But again, that bone can be referred to in simple terms HBL=hair reaching your hipbone. 



> **** Oh and you can not use the Trapezius as it is such a *LARGE* spanding muscle extending from C7-T12


 
LOL I think @blueberryd knew that. She was trying to be as sarcastic as possible and I think she was trying to say we need to use the horizontal plane of the inferior fibers of the trapezius muscle where they emerge from spinous process of the T12 vertebra. 

I think I need to lie down.


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 24, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Disagree. Too complicated for our purposes. I know I don't want to be feeling bones to determine length when I can just ID my neck, see where my neck ends and know the end.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 @ Nonie girl yes go lay down. You done pulled out the whole medical dictionary. You got me looking back at my bio degree in this mug.  Lumbar and cervical spine? Girl stop  Just please do not use ICD9 and CPT coding along with it. 

But before you go lay down, can you explain this to me what length this is? I was thinking tailbone. 






BTW I'm stealing the lil neck dude. that is my new AV.


----------



## lesedi (Oct 24, 2011)

[/QUOTE]

icantwithyou


----------



## Nonie (Oct 24, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> @ Nonie girl yes go lay down. You done pulled out the whole medical dictionary. You got me looking back at my bio degree in this mug. Lumbar and cervical spine? Girl stop  Just please do not use ICD9 and CPT coding along with it.
> 
> But before you go lay down, can you explain this to me what length this is? I was thinking tailbone.


 
Correction @Tamrin, that was Mane_Attraction pulling out the medical dictionary terms. I was just wondering why we had to go that far to just explain where hair falls on the exterior body. No one is looking at bones when looking a dressed human so why do we need to know the position of various vertebra to ID the location of a part of the body when simple English terms like "middle of the back" and "below shoulder blade" and "shoulder" suffice. *shrug*

For your hairy dude, looks like he's marking BSB (top white mark on the right), the second mark (on the left could be MBL), the third white mark is a little higher than WSL IMO. See, and I did that w/o knowing what his bones are called or where they are. Easy peasy!

ETA Tamrin, you're a foo-el!  I just noticed your avatar.


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 24, 2011)

lesedi said:


>



icantwithyou[/QUOTE]

You know you needed the laugh. lesedi


----------



## Tamrin (Oct 24, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Correction @Tamrin, that was Mane_Attraction pulling out the medical dictionary terms. I was just wondering why we had to go that far to just explain where hair falls on the exterior body. No one is looking at bones when looking a dressed human so why do we need to know the position of various vertebra to ID the location of a part of the body when simple English terms like "middle of the back" and "below shoulder blade" and "shoulder" suffice. *shrug*
> 
> *For your hairy dude, looks like he's marking BSB (top white mark on the right), the second mark (on the left could be MBL), the third white mark is a little higher than WSL IMO. See, and I did that w/o knowing what his bones are called or where they are. Easy peasy!
> *
> ETA Tamrin, you're a foo-el!  I just noticed your avatar.




 for that I'm sending you to bed.  You are too much today.






@ the Avatar, i'm keeping this ***** I earned it.


----------



## DrC (Oct 24, 2011)

Okay, I literally need this thread to die down.  Its getting me in trouble at school


----------



## LaFemmeNaturelle (Oct 24, 2011)

So I'm supposed to be studying for my anatomy exam but now I don't feel guilty about being on lhcf because I just got a review up in here! lol


----------



## DDTexlaxed (Oct 24, 2011)

Who took the back shot of a werewolf? This thread was a celebration of someone's retention, not a seminar!   I'm never ever posting a length shot.


----------



## SimJam (Oct 24, 2011)

wow this thread.

congrats OP on reaching an important milestone in your journey


----------



## RarityFluttershy (Oct 24, 2011)

*Y'all Is Doing The Most Up In Here.
These Pictures. Lawd Help Me.*


----------



## Embyra (Oct 24, 2011)

*opens up window draws open curtain* 

raided the LHCF debate cabinet heres some snacks i know you hungry 





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## SmileyNY (Oct 24, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> But before you go lay down, can you explain this to me what length this is? I was thinking tailbone.








  

  

Sent from my iPhone.


----------



## NaturalPath (Oct 24, 2011)

Lol Nonie, it really isnt all that complicated at all (or maybe im just used to palpation and estimating vertebrae levels myself). As for fat people chiros, do deal with a lot of obese patients but we just have to do a good estimation of where the levels are. The purpose of my explanation was for everyone to see precisely where these levels are. You can easily look at someones back and figure out where T3 or T8 may be at (or at least I thought so).

Who doesnt know what an ilium is Its the human body & I think everyone should be able to understand and know a few simple facts about their own selves.

Thing is, there are just so many inconsistencies with determining length, that I just believe using the dang skeleton is a more precise way since many people on this board are always arguing about exactly where the location is (since these topics come up a few times each year). I say this because the skeleton majority of the time is consistent to everyone regardless of how tall or fat one is. AND because you can not dispute the skeleton.

Besides yall was bringing up pictures of skeletons and talking about clavicles and stuff so I figured it _may_ help someone out. I guess it didnt, oh well my bad I just really love anatomy since its apart of my field of learning


----------



## Do_Si_Dos (Oct 24, 2011)

What does this hairy back monster have to do with anything...... 

Nevamind I see.... I hope his hair does not go all down to his behind..... Sorry.....carry on.......

Sent from my HTC Glacier using HTC Glacier


----------



## LadyRaider (Oct 24, 2011)

Nonie said:


> D



This child has no neck. He will never be able to achieve anything other than ear length. 


Serious questions for the medical types... What happened to his neck? Did his fat head gobble it up (my theory) or did his shoulders do the deed?

I'll hang up and listen.


----------



## ericajoy (Oct 24, 2011)




----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 24, 2011)

Mane_Attraxion said:


> Lol Nonie, it really isnt all that complicated at all (or maybe im just used to palpation and estimating vertebrae levels myself). As for fat people chiros, do deal with a lot of obese patients but we just have to do a good estimation of where the levels are. The purpose of my explanation was for everyone to see precisely where these levels are. You can easily look at someones back and figure out where T3 or T8 may be at (or at least I thought so).
> 
> Who doesnt know what an ilium is Its the human body & I think everyone should be able to understand and know a few simple facts about their own selves.
> 
> ...


 
It helped me and I agree with what you said. Some are too busy worrying about nouns & adverbs to focus on reality though. *shrugs* 



Nonie said:


> Sorry, I call this BS. Bone names have never had anything to do with body parts. So no, what we calls shoulders is what shoulders are. Who said that bone names determined body parts? Where on earth did you get this lie from?
> 
> The word "shoulder" came into the English language before the 12th century. It referred and has always referred to the top part of the torso that starts from the bottom of the neck to the part where the arm joins the torso. So what do you mean it's inaccurate?  The word scapula aka shoulder blade came into the English language in 1578 and refers to the trianglular bone in the back. The shoulder girdle is covered with flesh and skin and is that top surface after you've added flesh and skin that is SHOULDER. Not the bones.
> 
> ...


 


ummmm... no matter how you try to rearrange it for the sake of arguing, you can not relocate the shoulders on the body. I love a good debate, but when we start getting all sarcastic and stuff with each other, that's where it ends for me because you are obviously taking it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy too personal. 


And, yes the SHOULDER is often misnamed because a lot of people don't know where it really is. So, if we are indeed being technical - shoulder length ain't where the majority of LHCF says it is. No matter how right you try to make yourself. But, you say you studied anatomy & english so what I'm explaining shouldn't be all that difficult for you to grasp. 

the tibia & fibula (leg bones) are right there where you touch your leg. 
the funny bone - no such thing.  I'll laugh on that one just for the sake of lightening the mood. 

the hips are where the hip bone is - or should I say the pelvis? I mean if you wanna stay technical.

the breast bone is behind the breast (both breasts) and it connects with your sternum.

So i said all of that too say, whatever. 

Let Nonie be right, obviously she shall not rest until she is. Where's the wand so you can wave your know it all fairy dust over LHCF land and be deemed the goddess of hair length?? 

You keep bringing up this "english language" mess, what the heck does have to do with human anatomy? No matter what language you use, you cannot alter it based on your own personal designations of a where it is in English versus where it really is in anatomy. Hunh? I mean, where they do dat at?? 

:reddancer:


I have no problems with you whatsover, but you cannot expect to cop this mocking/condescending attitude towards me and not expect to get it back.

wrong is wrong is wrong. I don't care how long you been on this board or how much you think you know or how many posters worship you because of your ability to post a chart. 

Lawd, chile please. I try to be right with folks but please don't play me to the left. 

A simple discussion is about to get this thread locked. I mean really, how much sense does that make? I'm saying my neck but I really meant my ankle. Or, I'm saying foot in English but I really mean my butt. That's about the dumbest thang I ever heard. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I say my ear, I really mean my ear - In English, in Anatomy, sign language or any other method I communicate in. I don't say one part and mean something else cuz in English it's one thing and in science it's another. erplexed But, maybe that's just me, so I'll leave it at that. No matter how you say it - it is what it is and you cannot change what it is just because your communication, comprehension, understanding or whatever is off.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 24, 2011)

** cues gifs*


----------



## HauteHippie (Oct 24, 2011)

Oh my goodness! You girls are killing me! 

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2


----------



## bajandoc86 (Oct 24, 2011)

Ridiculous. Utterly utterly ridiculous.


----------



## Sugar (Oct 24, 2011)

o...m...geezus...this thread has me in tears


----------



## nzeee (Oct 24, 2011)

at first reading this thread i was like this:


----------



## nzeee (Oct 24, 2011)

but then after the charts and anatomy education i was all:


----------



## nzeee (Oct 24, 2011)

and now with all the feelings surfacing i'm just:


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 24, 2011)

Where is azul with a "god bless you all'?  This thread has been killed and resurrected about 16 times now.  LMAO!!!!!!!!


----------



## nzeee (Oct 24, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> ** cues gifs*



Ladybelle ^^ you asked for it


----------



## RarityFluttershy (Oct 25, 2011)

Je Ne Sais Quoi said:


> Where is azul with a "god bless you all'? This thread has been killed and resurrected about 16 times now. LMAO!!!!!!!!


 
*She Is Killing Me Softly With That "God Bless You All".*


----------



## danniegirl (Oct 25, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


> And, yes the SHOULDER is often misnamed because a lot of people don't know where it really is. So, if we are indeed being technical - shoulder length ain't where the majority of LHCF says it is. .



So where is IT and I'm not talking about no hair or no length check




Where the fork is my shoulder 

Omg I'm having a panic attack now I done miss-located my shoulder 

I've had enough of this board you heffers done made my shoulder disappear 

Where the heck is my shoulder 

Give my back my shoulderrrrrrrr 

It's been right here all my life why did you move it whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy



Eta: I'm so distort I need a shoulder to lean on 

Oh no no one can help me cause y'all don't know where your shoulders are at


Sent from my iPod touch using LHCF


----------



## Lucie (Oct 25, 2011)

Between this thread and the damn LHCF header telling me how to prevent/kill lice, I don't know which is more a P.I.T.A.! We had science lessons, children songs, werewolf lookin' pics, .gifs and whatever else I forgot to mention. I officially hate SL! Ihatechu dammit and wished you never existed. People should just go from neck length to APL! DAMN YOU SHOULDER LENGTH!


----------



## bajandoc86 (Oct 25, 2011)

^^^^^


----------



## Nonie (Oct 25, 2011)

Ladybelle, you must be the first human I have met who is about to educate the world on a new location of the shoulder. I can take everything else in this thread, even the scientific talk, but this is taking it to a whole new level of GTFOOHWTBS.

Senior man blowing bubbles, girl leaning on shoulder

Mid-adult woman sitting at desk stretching, and hands on shoulder

Man receiving shoulder massage, eyes closed

English definition:



> *shoul‧der*1
> body part
> [countable] one of the two parts of the body at each side of the neck where the arm is connected:





> *shoulder* _noun _( BODY PART )/ˈʃəʊl.dər//ˈʃoʊl.dɚ/ n
> Definition
> • one of the two parts of the body at each side of the neck which join the arms to the rest of the body
> _I rested my head on her shoulder.
> ...



Nowhere will you see shoulder referring to bones coz no one but you scientists give a rat's arse what bones are called or what they are doing. Some of us may never discuss any of these bones if we never have any need for medical attention referring to them. My grandma hasn't got a clue what the scapula is but she can show you shoulder and she can show you her hip bone. When she hurt her hip, she said she hurt her hip-joint and it wasn't around the hipbone but near her hip. Coz "normal" people don't think about bones that they cannot see unless the bones need some attention. Why should we when we have names for the parts we CAN see?. So only you refer to a bone when you say "shoulder". The rest of the world does not. God forbid you ever need to refer to your earlobe or abs. You'll be so lost coz there's no bone.  

Mane_Attraction, I had no idea what ilium was till I took Anatomy and Physiology, but you can bet your bottom dollar I knew what a hipbone was. Not everyone is fascinated or interested in learning about the human body like that. That's why you're in that field and many of us are not, and to those of us not in that field, you're speaking Greek.


----------



## Solitude (Oct 25, 2011)

I was one of the people in the "how long is long" thread who stated that SL is long. I now completely understand why other posters were saying it is not. My understanding of SL is based on the actual shoulders, not the neck. Just because we "say" something is one way, it does not change what it actually is. I'm not at all surprised that people not only do not know where shoulders are located, they also do not want to let go of incorrect notions.  It's human nature. We look for evidence to support what we already believe to be true, sometimes making it up as we go. 

Nonie, I see that you mentioned me on the English lesson post. I have a BA English; however, etymology has nothing to do with where the shoulders are. The "plain meaning" supports the scientic definition. Plain language is not something I made up. It's a movement in writing and legal doctrines. I think the science ladies have already backed up everything I said. 

As a sidenote, I don't get why people come into a thread just to say it's "a mess" or "extra." I have these types of analytical discussions every day, all of the time. I never really see what is so extra about them, as long as people aren't being insulted. 

To the comments about "just congratulating progress," there are dozens of threads where people post progress pictures and the threads just fall off of the first page and die because other posters do not want to tell the OP that her hair is damaged with see-thru ends, etc. Here, the OP made a claim in the thread title that was sensational. That is why it sparked both a discussion... and a spin-off thread.


----------



## Tiye (Oct 25, 2011)

blueberryd said:


> When you sing the song, "Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes", people/kids generally don't touch the base of their neck, they usually will touch the tip of their shoulders--which is what SL should be IMO....not directed toward OP--lol jus jumpin in the SL debate




That's because they have teachers who aren't fortunate enough to be LHCFers. 

Anyway apparently I've been missing all the fun because I only looked at "the other thread".

OP should have posted this on youtube that way she could have got paid and we could still talk about it here.


----------



## LaidBak (Oct 25, 2011)

^^ Its extra because at the end of the day none of it matters.  No one is gonna be deemed 'right' or 'wrong'.  No anatomy textbooks are gonna be changed.  And very few LHCF minds are gonna be changed as to what they think SL is.  
Its a mess because the point of this thread was for Charla to share what she felt was a noteworthy achievment, some of y'all have now turned that completely upside down.


----------



## LadyRaider (Oct 25, 2011)

Damaged and see-through ends should only be a problem if the person wears their hair straight or is relaxed. Doesn't matter if the person wears their hair curly. Most curly people straighten to see/show length. And damaged and see-through ends do count as length. Criticizing someone for damaged and see-through ends in a length shot would be "extra," imho.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 25, 2011)

:nothingfunny:


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 25, 2011)

Solitude said:


> *I was one of the people in the "how long is long" thread who stated that SL is long. I now completely understand why other posters were saying it is not. My understanding of SL is based on the actual shoulders, not the neck. Just because we "say" something is one way, it does not change what it actually is. I'm not at all surprised that people not only do not know where shoulders are located, they also do not want to let go of incorrect notions. It's human nature. We look for evidence to support what we already believe to be true, sometimes making it up as we go. *
> 
> @Nonie, I see that you mentioned me on the English lesson post. I have a BA English; however, etymology has nothing to do with where the shoulders are. The "plain meaning" supports the scientic definition. Plain language is not something I made up. It's a movement in writing and legal doctrines. I think the science ladies have already backed up everything I said.
> 
> ...


 
The bolded is what I've been trying to say from jump. That doesn't mean I don't understand what LHCF deems as SL and that's fine with me and just as soon as my hair creeps past my neck again, I'll be claiming SL with everybody else like I did the first time, still doesn't change where the shoulders are though.  I call my youngest dd "honeybun" but no matter how many times I call her "honeybun" it does not change her legal name or what's written on her birth certificate. What I call her versus what her name really is are two different things. I'm not too remissed to be cognizant of that fact. I sideeye anyone who says her name must be "honeybun" just because I call her that, they would indeed be wrong as hayle no matter how they tried to convince me they were right.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Ladybelle, you must be the first human I have met who is about to educate the world on a new location of the shoulder. I can take everything else in this thread, even the scientific talk, but this is taking it to a whole new level of GTFOOHWTBS.
> 
> Senior man blowing bubbles, girl leaning on shoulder
> 
> ...


 

You cool as a polar bears toenails Nonie, but you are still wrong. I'm tired of reading through all the mumbo jumbo because at the end of the day it still does not change the correct & actual location of the shoulders.    And, at this point we can respectfully disagree and call it a day.  There have been a few others come into this thread & explain the very same thing to you & you have your mind made up to believe what you believe, so be it.  You can lead a horse to water but ... I'm sure you know the rest. 

Lastly, for the sake of LHCF I do understand what SL is. I'm ok with that as it makes it easier for me to reach "SL" again.  I also know where the shoulders actually are in real life.  It's a win-win situation for me. 


Godspeed.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 25, 2011)

danniegirl said:


> So where is IT and I'm not talking about no hair or no length check
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Girl, you got my stomach hurting over here. For real! You ain't seen all these dayum charts in here?? 



Lucie said:


> Between this thread and the damn LHCF header telling me how to prevent/kill lice, I don't know which is more a P.I.T.A.! We had science lessons, children songs, werewolf lookin' pics, .gifs and whatever else I forgot to mention. I officially hate SL! Ihatechu dammit and wished you never existed. People should just go from neck length to APL! DAMN YOU SHOULDER LENGTH!


 
I'm with you! 



nzeee said:


> @Ladybelle ^^ you asked for it


 

Thanks @nzeee, you sho' know how to make a girl feel special. 


I am officially never coming back to this thread, one of my customers got into an accident and injured his shoulder, he keeps saying his neck is hurting though. It's gonna be a looooooooonng day!


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 25, 2011)

I want to thank each and every one of you for the lulz   this thread proves that we all belong together in an insane asylum left with nothing but hair products, steamers and bone tooth combs. It's Tuesday y'all. Be great!


----------



## LunadeMiel (Oct 25, 2011)

I know I'm late but I don't see the big deal with what Tamrin said. OP looks neck length to me. Yes, she has made great progress and has very thick hair but the fact still remains that she is neck length.

Man ya'll will debate anything


----------



## Tiye (Oct 25, 2011)

Je Ne Sais Quoi said:


> I want to thank each and every one of you for the lulz   this thread proves that we all belong together in an insane asylum left with nothing but hair products, steamers and bone tooth combs. It's Tuesday y'all. Be great!



 Hair's supposed to b fun, so if people are just playing around up in here then that's all good. If not, it's time to dig up that song about "I am not my hair ...."


----------



## Nonie (Oct 25, 2011)

OK, Ladybelle, you are right and everyone who speaks English is wrong. Wait, even kids, ask any kid to touch his shoulder and s/he will place hand on the surface that goes from neck to arm. Ask anyone taught my ladybelle and you'll see them feel for a bone and call it shoulder. OOOOOOOKKKK!

Solitude, then if you're an English major you know the difference between hips and hipbone and how they are in different positions; difference between shoulder and shoulder girdle; difference between a monkey and a monkey wrench. Just because the terms share similar words doesn't meant they represent the same thing or can be used interchangeably. (And this is why I will homeschool my kids coz it seems there are a bunch of confused educated folk out there.) If someone talks about having a strained shoulder, that has nothing to do with the bones. That has to do with the muscle in the shoulder. The shoulder is not the bone; the shoulder is the surface made of muscle and skin that sits on the shoulder girdle. Very soon y'all be telling us all we have tails coz we all have a tailbone.   This discussion reminds me of the one where we discussing a simple Math problem and people in that field were spewing some crazy ish.  Goes to show that just because someone wears a certain hat doesn't make them an expert in that field. Yeah, I said it.


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> OK, @Ladybelle, you are right and everyone who speaks English is wrong. Wait, even kids, ask any kid to touch his shoulder and s/he will place hand on the surface that goes from neck to arm. Ask anyone taught my ladybelle and you'll see them feel for a bone and call it shoulder. OOOOOOOKKKK!
> 
> @Solitude, then if you're an English major you know the difference between hips and hipbone and how they are in different positions; difference between shoulder and shoulder girdle; difference between a monkey and a monkey wrench. Just because the terms share similar words doesn't meant they represent the same thing or can be used interchangeably. (And this is why I will homeschool my kids coz it seems there are a bunch of confused educated folk out there.) If someone talks about having a strained shoulder, that has nothing to do with the bones. That has to do with the muscle in the shoulder. The shoulder is not the bone; the shoulder is the surface made of muscle and skin that sits on the shoulder girdle. Very soon y'all be telling us all we have tails coz we all have a tailbone.   This discussion reminds me of the one where we discussing a simple Math problem and people in that field were spewing some crazy ish. Goes to show that just because someone wears a certain hat doesn't make them an expert in that field. Yeah, I said it.


 
  Are we still talking about this??  We can let it go, really.


----------



## Tamster (Oct 25, 2011)

Solitude it has nothing to do with having analytical arguments... its that it has gone on for 8 pages (40 posts/page).. about shoulder length. That is too damn much. It's extra because we have 50-11 diagrams and pictures and people are arguing back and forth with the same point. That's extra. Doing too much.

ETA: i love a good debate too.


----------



## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 26, 2011)

tamz412 said:


> @Solitude it has nothing to do with having analytical arguments... its that it has gone on for 8 pages (40 posts/page).. about shoulder length. That is too damn much. It's extra because we have 50-11 diagrams and pictures and people are arguing back and forth with the same point. That's extra. Doing too much.
> 
> ETA: i love a good debate too.


 
50-11! 
I love that term!


----------



## HauteHippie (Oct 26, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Not everyone is fascinated or interested in learning about the human body like that. That's why you're in that field and many of us are not, and to those of us not in that field, you're speaking Greek.[/QUOTE]
> 
> ...or Latin! Sorry, just a little A&P/Med Term humor!
> 
> ...


----------



## RarityFluttershy (Oct 26, 2011)

Ladybelle said:


>


*Y'all See What This White Girl Is Movin. Now Thats Some Shoulders.*


----------



## Solitude (Oct 27, 2011)

tamz412 said:


> @Solitude it has nothing to do with having analytical arguments... its that it has gone on for 8 pages (40 posts/page).. about shoulder length. That is too damn much. It's extra because we have 50-11 diagrams and pictures and people are arguing back and forth with the same point. That's extra. Doing too much.
> 
> ETA: i love a good debate too.



@tamz412 at this point I have to agree with you completely. I didn't log in for a day and I come back to see my professionalism, education, and intelligence insulted over shoulder-length hair . I thought it was a simple discussion, but some people are doing the absolute most .

In regards to the other poster in this thread who made several rather rude personal attacks about others who disagree with her opinion...those comments aren't even worth a response. It's one thing to express an opinion; it's another to try to dominate a discussion with insults simply because others disagree.


----------



## Lucie (Oct 27, 2011)

I need to contact *Head and Shoulders *and see what their definition of SHOULDERS is. I never saw them patting the dandruff in the middle of their neck, LOL.


----------



## Nonie (Oct 27, 2011)

Lucie said:


> I need to contact *Head and Shoulders *and see what their definition of SHOULDERS is. *I never saw them patting the dandruff in the middle of their neck, LOL*.


 

@Lucie Did someone say shoulder was middle of the neck? I missed that one. Just wanted to add no one pats themselves on a bone on their back either. 

ETA This website seems to agree with me that shoulder is that surface that extends from neck to arm...hence this "Dandruff on Shoulder" image shown on that page:


----------



## DrC (Oct 27, 2011)

This thread needs to Die!! Die!! Diiiiiiiiieeee!!!!


----------



## allmundjoi (Oct 27, 2011)

Wow.......


----------



## Raspberry (Oct 27, 2011)




----------



## Solitude (Oct 27, 2011)

adlock2:


----------



## Lucie (Oct 27, 2011)

I've repeatedly called upon Jesus to take the wheel and he is not taking my call. WHY? WHY? WHY???????????? *slams head softly on laptop screen*


----------



## greenandchic (Oct 27, 2011)

adlock:adlock2:


----------



## bride91501 (Oct 27, 2011)

I would *love* to meet some of y'all in person. Cuz AIN'T NO WAY folks can be this damn extra in real life .....


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 27, 2011)

God bless you all


----------



## Nonie (Oct 27, 2011)

bride91501 you seriously would love to meet "extra" people? Why?


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 27, 2011)

Lucie said:


> I need to contact *Head and Shoulders *and see what their definition of SHOULDERS is. I never saw them patting the dandruff in the middle of their neck, LOL.


----------



## HauteHippie (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh, dear! I can't believe this thread is still going! "When Threads Go Bad"

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 27, 2011)

I heart this thread.  It's like the gift that keeps on giving but even better. This is one that we will definitely remember when someone starts another "what's your favorite thread" post. Just about everyone in this thread will be able to look back and laugh.


----------



## nzeee (Oct 27, 2011)

Je Ne Sais Quoi said:


> I heart this thread.  It's like the gift that keeps on giving but even better. This is one that we will definitely remember when someone starts another "what's your favorite thread" post. Just about everyone in this thread will be able to look back and laugh.



yeh... 'cept i'm not laughing anymore... slightly disturbed and a little sad.

and in the last straw files we have:





Nonie said:


> @Lucie Did someone say shoulder was middle of the neck? I missed that one. Just wanted to add no one pats themselves on a bone on their back either.
> 
> ETA This website seems to agree with me that shoulder is that surface that extends from neck to arm...hence this "Dandruff on Shoulder" image shown on that page:



but why Nonie? didn't you know you were my hero? *sniff


----------



## DrC (Oct 27, 2011)

Lucie





  okay I'm done.




Lucie said:


> I've repeatedly called upon Jesus to take the wheel and he is not taking my call. WHY? WHY? WHY???????????? *slams head softly on laptop screen*


----------



## thaidreams (Oct 27, 2011)

Congratulations!


----------



## LadyRaider (Oct 27, 2011)

So I've been minding my own business watching Star Trek: Voyager on Netflix.

Then I see these two standing together and I suddenly wonder: Are they shoulder length or neck length?

This thread is pervasive and a threat to the molecular structure of the universe!


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 27, 2011)

LadyRaider said:


> So I've been minding my own business watching Star Trek: Voyager on Netflix.
> 
> Then I see these two standing together and I suddenly wonder: Are they shoulder length or neck length?
> 
> This thread is pervasive and a threat to the molecular structure of the universe!


 Shoulder/left
neck/right


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 28, 2011)

Ya'll is crazy!! Can't help but laugh at this thread...4 real. I wonder what Dr.OZ would say?  All I know is when I reach SL again per LHCF standards, don't nobody better say ****. Hmph!


----------



## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 28, 2011)

Tamrin said:


> *I also have my opinion but please show me where I SAID everyone here are liars (You jumped in me & Lucie's convo...your name didn't even come up...don't know where you came from)*. Or better yet show me where I discouraged OP. We all have opinions and I don't have to change mine to make you or OP happy. Be happy with your opinion as I'am with mine. It is hilarious how this thread got this far due to the fact I said I don't agree with the OP's opinion of what SL is. *What was the all " keeping it real" about? If I was, I choose to be real with myself (Good for you).* I honestly don't give a hoot what someone else thinks. It is my opinion and I intend to keep it so until I see different. All the extras are totally unnecessary. There is no hating, no keeping it real, no taking away shine, no nothing. OP is not SL to ME that is all that matters to ME. I can say it in this thread just like you are free to disagree. All the extra that is not there other people are seeing is funny. Let OP be great with her opinion of SL.
> 
> I have been been at APL, chopped off it to 1.5 inches, I'm waay past where OP is now at 14 months and I'm not going to claim SL, cause to me it is not. That is MY opinion like it or not I don't need anyone to agree. Just like OP don't need to agree with me. To me paying attention to the opinions that does not agree is a way to look at yourself more objectively.
> 
> The whole this forum is a positive place to me. *Being positive does not mean you have to be false about your views.* *(And no one asked anyone to do that....ppl agreed with her...its doesn't mean THEY are being false about their views, since they genuinely believe she was SL and are happy about that......like you said, a difference in opinion...that is all)* When I started a thread about being natural and not doing the extras everyone else is doing, I'm sure people probably ( not sure) commented on me needing to take batter care of my hair and I would see even more result if I did. I was not going to argue with them. They most offered an objective opinion and I took it as that and never got offended. It is life no one is going to agree with you all the time. If you think they should?  *Opinions are like A-holes everyone has one (Unnecessary & "extra"...but okay....)*. ((Kanye Shrug))


 
Responses to your bolded points in red.


----------



## DrC (Oct 28, 2011)

le sigh...........


----------



## RarityFluttershy (Oct 28, 2011)

:gotroasted:
*It Just Won't Stop.*


----------



## Do_Si_Dos (Oct 28, 2011)

Well dude, there you have...............................


----------



## Ladybelle (Oct 28, 2011)

^^ This is how I feel about this thread now.


----------



## rainbowknots (Oct 28, 2011)

It's still going...heyyyy!!!


----------



## Rei (Oct 28, 2011)

commenting in a neverending thread


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 28, 2011)

Hey y'all!   it's Friday. Who else is at shoulder length today?


----------



## LadyRaider (Oct 28, 2011)

Je Ne Sais Quoi said:


> Hey y'all!   it's Friday. Who else is at shoulder length today?



ME ME ME ME ME. Full Shoulder length dadblast it and I DARE someone to tell me different!


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Oct 28, 2011)

LadyRaider said:


> ME ME ME ME ME. Full Shoulder length dadblast it and I DARE someone to tell me different!


 Now Now LadyRaider, you know we need some pitchas!!!!  I think a birdseye view, back shot, front shot, 90 degree angle, left shot, right shot and a shot with you standing on your head in a room with blue painted walls with the 11am sun shining into a 3' wide window with green drapes should suffice.  Until then, you still at neck length booboo


----------



## SmileyNY (Oct 28, 2011)

Je Ne Sais Quoi said:


> Now Now LadyRaider, you know we need some pitchas!!!!  I think a birdseye view, back shot, front shot, 90 degree angle, left shot, right shot and a shot with you standing on your head in a room with blue painted walls with the 11am sun shining into a 3' wide window with green drapes should suffice.  Until then, you still at neck length booboo



   


Sent from my iPhone.


----------

