# Tired of these Abstinate Christians...



## momi (Jul 13, 2013)

Figured that thread title would get ya'll in there.  

This was written by one of my online friends: LiveBigDieEmpty




Tired of all the abstinent Christians! I really am.

Explain to me how it makes sense to be battling your body and your flesh for decades (trying to maintain abstinence) as a Believer instead of working on your issues and diligently seeking healthy relationships!? I don't think you were designed to spend the better part of your most fertile years in solitude - your very physiology fights against it.

Some folks are going to be single until their sperm dries up and the last egg passes and then will look around wondering what went wrong. The church is preaching singleness and abstinence TOO MUCH! I'm not saying go sex it up like a porn star. I'm saying get healed, go out and date, learn how to have sustained relationships and GET OVER YOURSELF!!

We've got people writing books and selling seminars boasting about not having had sex in decades like they deserve a badge and a brownie. I am growing increasing uncomfortable with those who boast "I've been a virgin all my life!" and they are in their 30's and even 40's. We should start looking for dysfunction at some point and calling it what it is: often a character flaw!

We need to spend more time celebrating those who are trusting, brave and bold enough to get into the ring, get a ring and try and fight for a relationship (even if it fails) over those who are often scared, timid and racking up Netflix frequent customer points. The perpetually single aren't more holy - even though some try to convince us they are. Often, they are less so because they aren't involved in relationships to refine them. When it gets tough or when they think someone doesn't measure up or when THEY don't measure up, they bail - and blame it on God's timing, God's will or boast about how high their standards are.

1. Abstaining is not the greatest Christian ethic. 

2. We celebrate singles who abstain. We give them badges, books, TV shows. That is good. However we don't celebrate marrieds/marriage nearly enough. That is bad. 

3. Staying out of a woman's pants isn't the longest yard for a man of God. It's a lot more challenging to be the spiritual leader of a home and steward over the souls of your children. I want to see more men take that challenge. I want to see more women challenge themselves, too. 

I honor failure more than no effort. And, no, living together is not "effort" in my mind. Go down the aisle. Drive to the courthouse. That's effort.


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## stephluv (Jul 13, 2013)

Shoot I'm getting tired of being one! I want to celebrate not just other ppls marriages but my own as well one day so I understand


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## sweetvi (Jul 13, 2013)

LOL! Im ready to stop "abstaining" 

















with my husband


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## momi (Jul 13, 2013)

sweetvi said:


> LOL! Im ready to stop "abstaining"
> 
> 
> 
> ...






LOL   Amen Sis - Let it be so!

Every now and then he will go on a rant with the men and call them on the carpet for not actively pursuing a wife... although ironically he is single himself. 

Then the guys will chime in bellyaching about how they can't find any Godly women.  <<<insert head scratch here>>>


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## aribell (Jul 14, 2013)

lol.  That was really on point though, and I was just (like *just*) thinking about something similar.

I was going to post this article from HuffPost Religion where this Christian woman (married) is basically telling believers to stop waiting for a soulmate from God, put on your big girl and big boy pants, and make the choice to marry someone.  I think the "waiting on God" concept has been twisted up and has confused many.


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## BEAUTYU2U (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm not sure of what I just read.


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## MrsHaseeb (Jul 14, 2013)

I thought the article was amusing and rather funny. I totally understand. Totally... But is the article condoning fornication? Ill read it again.


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## aribell (Jul 14, 2013)

^^^I think he's just saying stop holding up abstinence like it's the gold standard when it's not.  Successfully getting married is the point, not being abstinent.  Or living a purposefully celibate life in the grace God has given you.


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## MrsHaseeb (Jul 14, 2013)

nicola.kirwan said:


> ^^^I think he's just saying stop holding up abstinence like it's the gold standard when it's not.  Successfully getting married is the point, not being abstinent.  Or living a purposefully celibate life in the grace God has given you.



Now that I do agree with. Churches should NOT be teaching abstinence forcing people to try to attain to something most people cannot attain to. The Bible is quite clear that that is a gift (which most people, myself included, don't have).. Forced and pressured abstinence is a set up for failure and contradicts the Bible.


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## Phoenix14 (Jul 14, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Now that I do agree with. Churches should NOT be teaching abstinence forcing people to try to attain to something most people cannot attain to. The Bible is quite clear that that is a gift (which most people, myself included, don't have).. Forced and pressured abstinence is a set up for failure and contradicts the Bible.



How does it contradict the Bible?


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## momi (Jul 14, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> I thought the article was amusing and rather funny. I totally understand. Totally... But is the article condoning fornication? Ill read it again.



I had to read through it a few times as well. I think his point is that more Christians just need to "get in the game".. and stop sitting on the bench polishing your gold abstinence star proud of your chastity. Lol 

Maintain your virtue by all means - but accept the coffee invitation, meet for brunch...  ask her for her number. IDK

I can see how this would be easier for men though since I believe they are meant to be the pursuer.


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## Galadriel (Jul 14, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Now that I do agree with. Churches should NOT be teaching abstinence forcing people to try to attain to something most people cannot attain to. The Bible is quite clear that that is a gift (which most people, myself included, don't have).. Forced and pressured abstinence is a set up for failure and contradicts the Bible.



I'm a little confused by his wording. I'm not sure if he's advocating fornication or if he is merely critiquing some abstinent people who don't date and don't pursue a spouse.

If a person is not drawn toward marriage, then he or she is within rights to remain abstinent. Some people are given the gift of celibacy, and God bless them, because not everyone has that gift.

If the person does want to be married, I agree, he/she can't sit around waiting for their future spouse to miraculously show up on their doorstep. They should date or "court."

I think what churches should be teaching is chastity.

Chastity can be practiced whether you're single, engaged, or married. Chastity is meant to engage the full person, integrating one's sexuality with his body, mind, and spirit, according to his state in life and according to God's will. Chastity doesn't reject or run away from sexuality, but moreso it acknowledges its dignity and purpose. While our sexuality is a part of us, and plays an important role, it is not the sum of who we are. We are more than just our body parts, and we should never objectify one another or reduce another person to merely an instrument of pleasure.

Singles and dating/engaged couples ought to practice chastity, where they can show affection toward one another and make romantic overtures, without objectifying each other or misusing their sexual faculties.

Married couples ought to practice marital chastity, where their hearts are guarded and the love and intimacy they share are only for each other and no one else.


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## MrsHaseeb (Jul 14, 2013)

Phoenix14 said:


> How does it contradict the Bible?



Hi. I feel it contradicts the Bible because Jesus made it clear that it was a gift not everyone has. He never forced it on anyone so no church has that right. Also, in both Timothy and Titus, Paul encourages them to encourage the younger women to marry so the enemy cannot cause people to speak reproachfully. That hasn't changed. People who profess Christ, both men and women are fornicating like its going out of style, having babies and abortions rather than marrying. That's a huge problem. I actually read that 18% of women who have abortions consider themselves born again Christians (not sure where the article is but it can probably be Googled). I'm sorry but that's a huge problem and churches need to start encouraging marriage again and talking about these issues. You don't even hear about marriage anymore nowadays in most churches. Its difficult to mortify the desire for the companionship of marriage as well as even the sexual desires if we're being honest with ourselves. Imagine someone who desires marriage doing that for 20 or 30 years. Most people would barely make it if they made it at all. These are simply my observations and what I see being clearly presented in Scripture. Anyone is free to disagree.

REFERENCE VERSES: Matt. 19:1-12; Titus 2:3-5; 1 Tim 5:14


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## Galadriel (Jul 14, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Hi. I feel it contradicts the Bible because Jesus made it clear that it was a gift not everyone has. He never forced it on anyone so no church has that right. Also, in both Timothy and Titus, Paul encourages them to encourage the younger women to marry so the enemy cannot cause people to speak reproachfully. That hasn't changed. People who profess Christ, both men and women are fornicating like its going out of style, having babies and abortions rather than marrying. That's a huge problem. I actually read that 18% of women who have abortions consider themselves born again Christians (not sure where the article is but it can probably be Googled). I'm sorry but that's a huge problem and churches need to start encouraging marriage again and talking about these issues. You don't even hear about marriage anymore nowadays in most churches. Its difficult to mortify the desire for the companionship of marriage as well as even the sexual desires if we're being honest with ourselves. Imagine someone who desires marriage doing that for 20 or 30 years. Most people would barely make it if they made it at all. These are simply my observations and what I see being clearly presented in Scripture. Anyone is free to disagree.
> 
> REFERENCE VERSES: Matt. 19:1-12; Titus 2:3-5; 1 Tim 5:14



I see what you're saying. We can't just throw "Be abstinent" out there and then wipe our hands clean and walk away. We need to actively advocate marriage and healthy dating/courtship practices, and build a supportive framework to actually help carry them through.


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## MrsHaseeb (Jul 14, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> I see what you're saying. We can't just throw "Be abstinent" out there and then wipe our hands clean and walk away. We need to actively advocate marriage and healthy dating/courtship practices, and build a supportive framework to actually help carry them through.



Yes. And being unmarried I don't see that happening a lot. You may not notice much because you're blessed to be married. Its not be talked about. They barely discuss sexual sin in *most* churches and that needs to be address in such an over sexed society. Its everywhere. Thank God I have had grace to mostly overcome in that area through prayer and fasting and praise and worship when necessary but it hasn't been easy. I'm just being honest here ...


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## sweetvi (Jul 14, 2013)

I have seen IME that many young couples who choose to marry are mocked and ridiculed.  According to some people, that they only did it to have sex with each other! This is coming from Christians.  In society, it is encouraged to pursue an education first and then marriage, and someone with several children in a healthy marriage is looked down upon. What if God has a different plan for you and sends a spouse early? There are so many single ministries compared to marriage, and not enough support given for married people IMO. There should be bootcamps, seminars, counseling, get togethers, etc. This has always been the enemy's tactic to dissuade marriage and/or stop it. The results from this are STDs, abortions, soul ties, and bitterness.

If I would of known better, I would of been more serious about a spouse than to have boyfriends and dating experience. I even hear Christians encouraging young people to forgo marriage until after an Education and to date instead. Why not do both?


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## MrsHaseeb (Jul 14, 2013)

DISCLAIMER: THE ARTICLE BELOW PRESENTS AN UGLY TRUTH IF ITS TRUE. IT IS NOT MEANT TO TARGET ANYONE BUT TO SHOW THE STAGGERING NUMBER OF PROFESSING CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE ABORTIONS... IT'S WORSE THAN I THOUGHT. READ AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION.


http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/03/prweb357377.htm


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## Galadriel (Jul 14, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Yes. And being unmarried I don't see that happening a lot. You may not notice much because you're blessed to be married. Its not be talked about. They barely discuss sexual sin in *most* churches and that needs to be address in such an over sexed society. Its everywhere. Thank God I have had grace to mostly overcome in that area through prayer and fasting and praise and worship when necessary but it hasn't been easy. I'm just being honest here ...



I totally get what you're saying, MrsHaseeb

I agree with you, we need our pastors and church communities to step up and address this. This is why many people in the young adult age group fall away from attending church and only return when they are getting married or want their kids baptized.

I know there's been recent critique of the so-called "purity culture," where basically you're told to abstain and if we don't, it'll ruin you for your future spouse.

What we need is to first communicate the proper understanding of sex and sexuality within God's plan, and create healthy boundaries as well as healthy relationships.

We need to practice *chastity* at all levels of life (whether married or unmarried).

We need more ministries/programs geared toward Christian young adults where they can have a network and environment of encouragement, interaction, and accountability.


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## MrsHaseeb (Jul 14, 2013)

sweetvi said:


> I have seen IME that many young couples who choose to marry are mocked and ridicules. That they only did it to have sex with each other! This is coming from Christians. In society, it is normal to pursue an education first and then marriage, and someone with several children in a healthy marriage is looked down upon. There are so many single ministries compared to marriage, and not enough support given for marriage IMO.  This has always been the enemy's tactic to dissuade marriage and/or stop it. The results from this are STDs, abortions, soul ties, and bitterness.
> 
> If I would of known better, I would of been more serious about a spouse than to have boyfriends and dating experience. I even hear Christians encouraging young people to forgo marriage until after an Education and to date instead. Why not do both?



This is the truth. That's exactly what's being said about young people who marry. I know because I've heard it.... We need to go back to Biblical principles.


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## Galadriel (Jul 14, 2013)

sweetvi said:


> I have seen IME that many young couples who choose to marry are mocked and ridicules. That they only did it to have sex with each other! This is coming from Christians.



I've seen this as well. In general, we do tend to crinkle our noses at seeing people get married young or while still in school. I think this is mostly because we feel that the financial responsibilities that come along with marriage are much easier for a couple that has finished school and  established careers. We also see young people as less experienced and still evolving/developing personality and confidence wise, which can affect their relationship.

I think a marriage between young people can work, but it's going to be tough in some areas, and they have to understand what they're getting into and that it's for life. I have college friends who married at 20, 21, and they're doing just fine. I think the most important components of a marriage are you, your spouse, and God. And of course it goes without saying that you need qualities such as faithfulness, patience, forgiveness, compatibility, etc. I think it's a good idea for engaged couples to do pre-marital counseling.


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## momi (Jul 14, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Yes. And being unmarried I don't see that happening a lot. You may not notice much because you're blessed to be married. Its not be talked about. They barely discuss sexual sin in *most* churches and that needs to be address in such an over sexed society. Its everywhere. Thank God I have had grace to mostly overcome in that area through prayer and fasting and praise and worship when necessary but it hasn't been easy. I'm just being honest here ...




^^^ This is true.  The author actually has a blog about healthy Christian relationships  and marriage... his biggest gripe seems to be with the church who by and large refuse to discuss "sexual sin" and fail to provide non-threatening opportunities for singles to fellowship. 

The comment that I posted was just a snapshot of his position.  

https://www.facebook.com/BeWorthFinding


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## momi (Jul 14, 2013)

nicola.kirwan said:


> lol.  That was really on point though, and I was just (like *just*) thinking about something similar.
> 
> I was going to post this article from HuffPost Religion where this Christian woman (married) is basically telling believers to stop waiting for a soulmate from God, put on your big girl and big boy pants, and make the choice to marry someone.  I think the "waiting on God" concept has been twisted up and has confused many.




That's what I am saying nicola.kirwan.  I think we have taken this concept to a level that was never intended.  A few years ago I did a bit of research on the "soul mate" concept  and came to the conclusion that is in un-biblical and can be a stumbling block.

This is going to sound cynical but this is the way I see it:  A guy who loves God finds a girl who loves God.  They get married, have children, and continue to love God - while raising their children to honor and serve God.  Yes we should marry someone that - suits us" with the understanding that marriage is a covenant that should be entered into without much prayer and counsel... HOWEVER - we should not over complicate things thinking that we are waiting on our :soul mates:.


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## sweetvi (Jul 14, 2013)

I  too was a victim of the "soul mate" concept. I always thought that the one God has chosen for us will be nearly perfect. No arguments, white picket fence, happy family, etc. As I'm studying more, I am grasping the concept of being committed to marriage and not the person per say. For me it means, it means I will dedicate myself to the ministry of marriage through sickness, health, poverty, arguments, faded looks, etc. I understand the importance of marrying the one who God specifies for you. It is a representation of how Christ loves the church. He loves us even when we  fornicate, lie, steal, reject him, etc. and has never abandon us. This is similar to marriage, in the end, it glorifies Christ.

I hope I'm making sense...


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## momi (Jul 14, 2013)

Agreed Galadriel


It wasn't my intention to make light of such a serious subject - I posted because I appreciate his light hearted approach to this subject and frankly I agree. Especially when I consider the many women I've come in contact with that are convinced that they don't need a man because they are married to Jesus. Don't get me wrong ... I get that. However there is nothing wrong with admitting that you'd like to be married if its in The Lords will. 

Generally he is a very thoughtful writer ... This statement was snatched from his FB comments - which is probably why it sounds random.


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## Shimmie (Jul 14, 2013)

momi said:


> Figured that thread title would get ya'll in there.
> 
> This was written by one of my online friends: LiveBigDieEmpty
> 
> ...



 momi... I thought your title said 'alternate'


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## BEAUTYU2U (Jul 14, 2013)

When did virginity and chastity cone in conflict with marriage? I don't understand why it's either or...


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## Galadriel (Jul 14, 2013)

BEAUTYU2U said:


> When did virginity and chastity cone in conflict with marriage? I don't understand why it's either or...



I think the gist of the article is that God isn't going to hand-deliver your spouse to you, and sitting in the corner wearing your abstinence badge while not even taking any action to find your spouse isn't going to help. 

It seems to be directed at people who are interested in marriage but don't do anything to actually make it a reality.

momi correct me if I'm wrong


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## BEAUTYU2U (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks, I was too confused


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## momi (Jul 14, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> I think the gist of the article is that God isn't going to hand-deliver your spouse to you, and sitting in the corner wearing your abstinence badge while not even taking any action to find your spouse isn't going to help.
> 
> It seems to be directed at people who are interested in marriage but don't do anything to actually make it a reality.
> 
> momi correct me if I'm wrong



Thanks for the summation - I think I was adding to the confusion. Lol


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## CoilyFields (Jul 16, 2013)

Yeah the article was confusing for me...

IRL I know barely any Christians who are virgins or abstaining over the age of 17! So I'm not seeing this abstinent badge being flashed.

And the problem is that in todays society...even among Christians...sex is an expected part of a relationship. It is difficult to date the Godly way when so many adhere to the popular culture. 

I guess I just didn't like the message of the article. It left too much unsaid that could be assumed to be promoting sexual immorality rather than abstinence.

I just have all kinds of problems with the current dating structure. I dont agree with the idea of getting into numerous relationships. That causes emotional damage. Intentional courtship with the express purpose of marriage is the way to go. Now how that can happen in todays time is the difficulty. I wish we could have a Christian courting website  that promotes dating the Godly way. EHarmony was a step in the right direction but I would like to see something more intentional.


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## Maracujá (Jul 16, 2013)

Thanks for posting this article, I like it especially because it coincides with what my train of thought has been about this subject as of late. I am that Christian, I felt like I had one up on everybody else because it's been almost 8 years since I've been in a relationship. I sometimes had this feeling that I had found the formula to ware off heartbreak & co: saying no to every.single.guyLately I've come to realize that it simply does not work that way. What I mean is that there's nothing wrong with dating. As a famous writer likes to say: dating is for collecting data, not for mating.


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## Shimmie (Jul 16, 2013)

CoilyFields said:


> Yeah the article was confusing for me...
> 
> IRL I know barely any Christians who are virgins or abstaining over the age of 17! So I'm not seeing this abstinent badge being flashed.
> 
> ...



The problem with eharmony is that he compromised and has a gay site.


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## stephluv (Jul 17, 2013)

sweetvi said:


> I have seen IME that many young couples who choose to marry are mocked and ridiculed. According to some people, that they only did it to have sex with each other! This is coming from Christians. In society, it is encouraged to pursue an education first and then marriage, and someone with several children in a healthy marriage is looked down upon. What if God has a different plan for you and sends a spouse early? There are so many single ministries compared to marriage, and not enough support given for married people IMO. There should be bootcamps, seminars, counseling, get togethers, etc. This has always been the enemy's tactic to dissuade marriage and/or stop it. The results from this are STDs, abortions, soul ties, and bitterness.
> 
> *If I would of known better, I would of been more serious about a spouse than to have boyfriends and dating experience. I even hear Christians encouraging young people to forgo marriage until after an Education and to date instead. Why not do both?*


 


sweetvi said:


> I too was a victim of the "soul mate" concept. I always thought that the one God has chosen for us will be nearly perfect. No arguments, white picket fence, happy family, etc. As I'm studying more, I am grasping the concept of being committed to marriage and not the person per say.* For me it means, it means I will dedicate myself to the ministry of marriage through sickness, health, poverty, arguments, faded looks, etc. I understand the importance of marrying the one who God specifies for you. It is a representation of how Christ loves the church. He loves us even when we fornicate, lie, steal, reject him, etc. and has never abandon us. This is similar to marriage, in the end, it glorifies Christ.*


 
ITA to both of these statements sweetvi

Now that i'm older I am realizing how much work marriage will be and how the enemy finds ways to destroy marriages Though I do not want to be single anymore  I am loving how much I am learning and how I am slowly being prepared for marriage


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## momi (Jul 17, 2013)

Shimmie said:


> The problem with eharmony is that he compromised and has a gay site.



I remember when the lawsuit was brought against them ... 

I was surprised that they caved.


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## menina (Aug 2, 2013)

Bumping....... Reading the 'soulmate' stuff


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Aug 2, 2013)

Shimmie said:


> The problem with eharmony is that he compromised and has a gay site.


 


Oh my....


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