# Divine Mercy Sunday and a promise fulfilled



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

Hi everyone,

I was initially saddened by the death of our holy father. Watching and keeping vigil with the polish and those at the vatican, I witnessed it all, his last statement for us the youth to take Christ out to the world and the videos of him that aired which confused me for a while because I thought he made it through only for me to realize from the outfit of the audience that it was the video of the beginning of his papacy and finally the news of his death and the announcement that Cardinal Sordano(sp?) would say the Mass in his honor today. 

While listening to EWTN's roundtable discussion, a cardinal made mention that his death took place on a saturday which is the first saturday of the month and the eve of the divine mercy sunday. Was it a mere coincidence or divine providence?

It is interesting to note that our holy father consecrated himself to our Lady several times. One of them before he joined the seminary and he did this following De Montfort's total consecration to Mary. It rang a bell in my mind and I quickly went in search of the promise of the first saturday devotion. I found the text in bold below: 

*On Dec. 10, 1925, The Child Jesus and the Most Blessed Virgin Mary came to Lucy of Fatima, who was now a religious sister in her convent cell in Pontevedra, Spain, to make of us this special request:

"Look, My daughter, at My Heart, surrounded with thorns, with which ungrateful men pierce Me at every moment by their blasphemies and ingratitude.  
You at least try to console Me, and announce in My name that I promise to assist at the hour of death, with the graces necessary for the salvation, all those who, on the First Saturday of five consecutive months, shall confess, receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary, and keep Me company for 15 minutes while meditating on the 15 mysteries of the Rosary, with the intention of making reparation to Me."

On a subsequent occasion, Sister Lucy placed before Jesus the difficulty that some people had about confessing on Saturday, and asked if it might be valid to go to Confession within eight days.  Jesus answered, "Yes, and it could be longer still, provided that, when they receive Me, they are in the state of grace and have the intention of making reparation to the Immaculate Heart of Mary."*

Isn't it amazing that our lady's promise to assist devotees of the first saturday devotion at the hour of death was today fulfilled in the passing away of the Holy Father. He preached to us even in his death directing us to also say Totus tous Maria; entirely yours Maria.

The second interesting aspect of his death is that he who championed the cause of the beatification of St. Faustina with her message of the divine mercy to us has gone to celebrate that Feast which promises us the following in the bold text below: 

*The Lord said to St. Faustina (1905-1938): 
"Encourage souls to say the Chaplet which I have given you.... 
Whoever will recite it will receive great mercy at the hour of death.... 


When they say this chaplet in the presence of the dying, 
I will stand between My Father and the dying person, 
not as the just Judge but as the Merciful Savior..... 


Priests will recommend it to sinners as their last hope of salvation. 
Even if there were a sinner most hardened, 
if he were to recite this chaplet only once, 
he would receive grace from My infinite mercy. 
I desire to grant unimaginable graces 
to those souls who trust in My mercy.... 


Through the Chaplet you will obtain everything, 
if what you ask for is compatible with My will." 

 " I promise that the soul that will venerate this image will not perish. I also promise victory over [its] enemies already here on earth, especially at the hour of death. I Myself will defend it as My own glory "(Diary, 47, 48). " I am offering people a vessel with which they are to keep coming for graces to the fountain of mercy. That vessel is this image with the signature: Jesus I trust in You" (Diary, 327). "I desire that this image be venerated, first in your chapel, and [then] throughout the world" (Diary, 47).


- Imprimatur: John A. Marshall, Bishop of Springfield, Mass. (February 22, 1993)*

I have no doubt that our holy father has joined the rank of the holy communion of saints to celebrate the feast of divine mercy which promises help at the hour of death and he is now in the arms of our mother who promised her unparalled help to us if we console her. 

My sadness is replaced with so much thrill. I'm besides myself thinking about these things which seem like coincidences but by the mercy and wisdom of God are definitely not. His Mama (our Lady) came for him and I pray that she will someday come for us too.

Sorry that this is so long! I'm besides myself with joy and I think we all ought to be dancing at Mass today but most of all, I implore everyone especially Catholics who read this to avail themselves of our Lord and Lady's promise.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 3, 2005)

Not to be mean or anything, but God is my Holy Father.


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

Hey Poohbear, 

*Was that ( referring to your "Not to be mean or anything") a Fraudian slip you just let escape you?*

You no doubt refer to your earthly father as father, well we affectionately refer to the vicar of Christ as our holy father and since we are secure in our belief and where God the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit stand in the scheme of things, we are not afraid that the pope is usurping the position. 

Even Paul in 1 vs 18 called Timothy a fellow presbyter his child and John in 1 John 2 vs 1 called the receivers of his letter his children.

It is only logical to think that those called children replied 'father' to Paul, John and Peter. 

God is "our Father" as Jesus, the visible form of the invisible God told us. The same Jesus is our Father because he is the same as God but he asked Peter (our first holy father) in John 21 vs. 15 to feed his lamb (the church). 

In Luke 22 vs. 31 - 32, Jesus, entrusted Peter  with the duty of strengthening the faith of those in his keeping. The apostles of that time understood what he meant and in the first council of ephesus, Peter presided over the question of circumcision, eventually gave his life for the faith but took his office seriously as depicted in his exhaultation of his brothers as seen below:

1 Peter 5 vs. 1-4
So I exhort the presbyters 2 among you, as a fellow presbyter and witness to the sufferings of Christ and one who has a share in the glory to be revealed. 
2 
Tend the flock of God in your midst, (overseeing) not by constraint but willingly, as God would have it, not for shameful profit but eagerly. 
3 
Do not lord it over those assigned to you, but be examples to the flock. 
4 
And when the chief Shepherd is revealed, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.







			
				Poohbear said:
			
		

> Not to be mean or anything, but God is my Holy Father.


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Not to be mean or anything, but God is my Holy Father.



I'm off to the divine mercy sunday feast Mass. When I return I shall attend to any questions or sarcasms.


----------



## SVT (Apr 3, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Not to be mean or anything, but God is my Holy Father.



And the purpose of your sarcasm is?


----------



## Tai (Apr 3, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Not to be mean or anything, but God is my Holy Father.


 
If you weren't trying to be mean, what was your intention?   It doesn't sound as if you're trying to be nice.


----------



## EssentialGrowth (Apr 3, 2005)

With fine_beauty starting off her post with "Hey everyone, I was initially saddened by the death of OUR holy father" she is addressing everyone as if we are all Catholics. We are not, and POOHBEAR rightfully took the stance to state who she believed to be her Father.

The fault is not with Poohbear, but with the poster who should have been more considerate in HOW she addressed her audience. This is a CHRISTIANITY forum which encompasses all denominations who place faith in Jesus Christ and posters addressing other members of this forum should be considerate of such. I digress.


----------



## SVT (Apr 3, 2005)

EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> With fine_beauty starting off her post with "Hey everyone, I was initially saddened by the death of OUR holy father" she is addressing everyone as if we are all Catholics. We are not, and POOHBEAR rightfully took the stance to state who she believed to be her Father.
> 
> The fault is not with Poohbear, but with the poster who should have been more considerate in HOW she addressed her audience. This is a CHRISTIANITY forum which encompasses all denominations who place faith in Jesus Christ and posters addressing other members of this forum should be considerate of such. I digress.



This was originally posted in the OT forum.


----------



## EssentialGrowth (Apr 3, 2005)

SVT said:
			
		

> This was originally posted in the OT forum.



Your point being?



The location of the post has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The poster would have been MORE at fault if it was originally posted in the OT forum since she would have disregarded not only non- Catholic Christians, but a slew of other members who shared different faiths/beliefs, including atheists and agnostics. Case closed.


----------



## Nice (Apr 3, 2005)

My thing is if you are not Catholic, why respond to the thread?  Obviously Poohbear can't relate to what the people of the Catholic faith must be feeling right now. It wasn't a thread asking for opinions of who you consider to be your holy father.   I just personally just don't see the point of a person adding their .02 that had nothing to do with the original post.


----------



## LondonDiva (Apr 3, 2005)

Why is everyone jumping on Poohbear?  I know she never meant any harm, and I personally refer to my 'father' as dad.  ITA with her my only father is the Lord.  IMHO I think the reason she said not to be mean is because many times she's been 'cut down' on other sections of this board and misunderstood.  I was actually going to post another topic regarding this actually, but it might get quite heated, plus I'm a lil tired about does anyone else find it offensive that in the media they keep referring to him as the holy father.  I thought it was just me, but as I was chatting online with my friend in NYC last night she had to turn the TV off as she was mad they kept referring to him as that also.  In the Bible I'm sure it says that you are to refer to no one else as Father other than the Lord himself.  Where it states this I don't know.


----------



## Selene (Apr 3, 2005)

I do think the sarcasm is unnecessary, many of the religious faith looked at the Pope as a spiritual Father on earth, not as God the Holy father. I am not Catholic (I'm Baptist, but I have studied the faith). And for millions of people without fathers, the Pope was a powerful father figure. Just reading/hearing of all this Pope did to encourage world peace, how he stood for his beliefs and values in the face of criticism from the world, is moving to me. I don't think we should "bash" other folks religions, all denominations of Christianity have different tenents, but we all believe in God and Jesus as His son, and in the Holy Spirit.

I don't think people are "jumping" on poohbear, it just seemed as the post was sort of out of place..especially with the preface.  

The word Pope is derived from the Greek word for "father"; Catholics worldwide consider each pope to be successor of Saint Peter who was first bishop of Rome and thus first Pope. I am sure most Christians have read the writings of Peter, but do they know he is considered the first Pope.

More information on the word Pope:

The word "Pope" is derived from the Greek word _pappas_ ("father") and was originally used in an affectionate sense of any priest or bishop (in the exact same way that modern priests are addressed as "Father"). In the fourth and fifth centuries, _pappas_ (Latinized as _papa_, a form still preserved in Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, and Serbian) was still frequently used of any bishop in the West, although it gradually came to be increasingly restricted to its modern, exclusive use by the Bishop of Rome. In the East, especially in Greece and Russia, priests are still referred to as _pappas_.


Religious History is fascinating. And I think all Chrisitians benefit from studying the early Church.


----------



## LondonDiva (Apr 3, 2005)

fine_beauty said:
			
		

> I'm off to the divine mercy sunday feast Mass. When I return I shall attend to any questions or sarcasms.


 
That's NOT nice at all.  Between her first post and this one the girl hadn't even given herself a moment to explain or redeem herself.  You just assume she's being sarcastic.


----------



## SVT (Apr 3, 2005)

EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> Your point being?



My point being that you stated the original poster should have been more considerate in how she addressed her audience because this is a Christianity forum but Fine_beauty posted this on the OT forum. It was later moved by a mod or admin.


----------



## EssentialGrowth (Apr 3, 2005)

Nice said:
			
		

> My thing is if you are not Catholic, why respond to the thread?  Obviously Poohbear can't relate to what the people of the Catholic faith must be feeling right now. It wasn't a thread asking for opinions of who you consider to be your holy father.   I just personally just don't see the point of a person adding their .02 that had nothing to do with the original post.



If there was a disclaimer stating the post was to address fellow believers of the Catholic faith, then yes, I agree, non-Catholics do not have a right responding to the thread. However, there was no disclaimer, and with the post starting off with "hey, everyone" its welcoming anyone, thus opening up the floor to all Christians to respond to the post. Poohbear, like myself, was offended and had the right to speak up, and I'm certainly glad that she did.


----------



## Selene (Apr 3, 2005)

No one is censoring (yet) the right of people to disagree, I just think that the use of the term "father" by Catholics isn't the way that Poohbear and others take it mean, they aren't saying the Pope is God the Father, they are referring to the Pope with an affectionate term, much as you call your dad, dad or father, its a title of affection.


----------



## EssentialGrowth (Apr 3, 2005)

SVT said:
			
		

> My point being that you stated the original poster should have been more considerate in how she addressed her audience because this is a Christianity forum but Fine_beauty posted this on the OT forum. It was later moved by a mod or admin.



That was in the past. It is here now and her post should be revised out of respect for other Christian members.


----------



## Nice (Apr 3, 2005)

EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> If there was a disclaimer stating the post was to address fellow believers of the Catholic faith, then yes, I agree, non-Catholics do not have a right responding to the thread. However, there was no disclaimer, and with the post starting off with "hey, everyone" its welcoming anyone, thus opening up the floor to all Christians to respond to the post. Poohbear, like myself, was offended and had the right to speak up, and I'm certainly glad that she did.


 
Well, I guess that I am just the type of person that skip over religious threads that don't apply to me  .  I am not Catholic and I was not offended by her post.  I had nothing encouraging to add in this time of mourning so I just kept it moving  .


----------



## SVT (Apr 3, 2005)

EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> SVT said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pebbles has already stated on another thread that Catholics are Christians. That means Catholics are welcome to post in LHCF's Christianity Forum and should be regarded with the same respect given to other Christian denominations.

I did not move the thread. I will not revise it nor do I believe it should be revised.


----------



## pebbles (Apr 3, 2005)

There are many people not of the Catholic faith that do not know that the Pope is referred to as the holy father by Catholics. It's not that the Pope takes the place of The Holy Father, that's just a name bestowed on the Pope out of respect for his position in the church. I urge people not to get so upset. Not everyone is aware of all these things.


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

Hey EssentialGrowth, 

I'm so delighted to be intimated of your psychic tendencies. So you are aware of the intricacies of this mortal's mind, Eh?

I was joyful and my post did not call you or Poohbear out. It is an open invitation to anyone to take advantage of the divine mercy of Jesus Christ.
If you don't like it, keep stepping!!



			
				EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> With fine_beauty starting off her post with "Hey everyone, I was initially saddened by the death of OUR holy father" she is addressing everyone as if we are all Catholics. We are not, and POOHBEAR rightfully took the stance to state who she believed to be her Father.
> 
> The fault is not with Poohbear, but with the poster who should have been more considerate in HOW she addressed her audience. This is a CHRISTIANITY forum which encompasses all denominations who place faith in Jesus Christ and posters addressing other members of this forum should be considerate of such. I digress.


----------



## pebbles (Apr 3, 2005)

SVT said:
			
		

> Pebbles has already stated on another thread that Catholics are Christians. That means Catholics are welcome to post in LHCF's Christianity Forum and should be regarded with the same respect given to other Christian denominations.
> 
> I did not move the thread. I will not revise it nor do I believe it should be revised.



I agree. It doesn't need to be revised. Surely by now people understand what was meant. It shouldn't cause such a fuss anymore.


----------



## Selene (Apr 3, 2005)

Pebbs, you hit the nail on the head...its a title of respect of and affection

Father is used as a term of affection in some fraternities, i.e., my pledge father...

We use the term father as term of affection for our family members...

I think people need to relax and not assume things....a quick google search of the word Pope will tell you what I posted earlier....

Tolerance is something that is sorely needed...


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

Should I proffer my password to you to 'edit' the post as you deem fit?



			
				EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> That was in the past. It is here now and her post should be revised out of respect for other Christian members.


----------



## Nyambura (Apr 3, 2005)

SVT said:
			
		

> Pebbles has already stated on another thread that Catholics are Christians. That means Catholics are welcome to post in LHCF's Christianity Forum and should be regarded with the same respect given to other Christian denominations.
> 
> I did not move the thread. I will not revise it nor do I believe it should be revised.





			
				pebbles said:
			
		

> There are many people not of the Catholic faith that do not know that the Pope is referred to as the holy father by Catholics. It's not that the Pope takes the place of The Holy Father, that's just a name bestowed on the Pope out of respect for his position in the church. I urge people not to get so upset. Not everyone is aware of all these things.


 
Thank you, ladies. Thank you, also, Blaxalrose. I feel no animosity, suspicion, or disrespect towards my non-Catholic sisters (and brothers)-in-Christ and I am glad to see that there are those who feel this way about Catholics. This can definitely be an opportunity to learn about other Christians (in this case, Catholics), if we let it.


----------



## SVT (Apr 3, 2005)

fine_beauty said:
			
		

> EssentialGrowth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The editing issue is dead. No need to perpetuate the divisiveness that issue causes.


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

Thanks Svt, 

Sorry, I was insulted by the audacity of the command cum suggestion.



			
				SVT said:
			
		

> The editing issue is dead. No need to perpetuate the divisiveness that issue causes.


----------



## sbg4evr (Apr 3, 2005)

Like Poohbear, the first thing that came to my mind was that God is my holy father.  I do not believe that Poohbear was being sarcastic as the same thought came to me.    As I continued reading,  I understood the jist of the post. I respect Catholics and their beliefs even though I am considered by Catholics as a heretic.  Catholic dogma is not my dogma.  The recent deceased Pope was a very progressive Pope, hopefully his successor would have the same qualities that consist of embracing Christians other than Roman Catholics, urge world nations to embrace families and marriage and to outlaw actions that go against that.


----------



## zora (Apr 3, 2005)

I don't think Poohbear was intentionally being rude.  I do think she kind of hijacked the thread with that comment, but again, I don't think any of it was intentional.

But, the notion that the initial post should be edited is crazy.  If it doesn't apply to you, then don't post.  It's simple.


----------



## EssentialGrowth (Apr 3, 2005)

fine_beauty said:
			
		

> Hey EssentialGrowth,
> 
> I'm so delighted to be intimated of your psychic tendencies. So you are aware of the intricacies of this mortal's mind, Eh?
> 
> ...




Personally,
            I would rather not be aware or intimate with your mind, especially after revealing yourself through these posts.

             Thank you for opening up that invitation for me. I learned quite a few things today.


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

You started the personal attacks, dear, by ordering me to edit my post. I retort and you're crying wolf. Please don't start the fire if you can't take the heat. You can't expect to defecate in public and not have people turn up their noses.

A joyful post that you didn't agree with. If I had something good happen to me and you have no positive input, civility dictates that you just walk away from the thread as other ladies have stated but in your stubbornness you refuse to see reason.

Well, its so great to know I aided you and hopefully, you'll stop vilifying what you don't understand. This Catholic does not bow to bashing and does not bash other members of the body of Christ. I suggest you do the same henceforth!



			
				EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> Personally,
> I would rather not be aware or intimate with your mind, especially after revealing yourself through these posts.
> 
> Thank you for opening up that invitation for me. I learned quite a few things today.


----------



## Laginappe (Apr 3, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> Why is everyone jumping on Poohbear? I know she never meant any harm, and I personally refer to my 'father' as dad. ITA with her my only father is the Lord. IMHO I think the reason she said not to be mean is because many times she's been 'cut down' on other sections of this board and misunderstood. I was actually going to post another topic regarding this actually, but it might get quite heated, plus I'm a lil tired about * does anyone else find it offensive that in the media they keep referring to him as the holy father. I thought it was just me, but as I was chatting online with my friend in NYC last night she had to turn the TV off as she was mad they kept referring to him as that also.* In the Bible I'm sure it says that you are to refer to no one else as Father other than the Lord himself. Where it states this I don't know.


 
Holy Father is just one of his titles. Just like your country's leader's title is Queen. Now when she's referred to in the media as Queen - should everyone else get upset becuase she's not our Queen?


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

High Five, Sister!





			
				Laginappe said:
			
		

> Holy Father is just one of his titles. Just like your country's leader's title is Queen. Now when she's referred to in the media as Queen - should everyone else get upset becuase she's not our Queen?


----------



## EssentialGrowth (Apr 3, 2005)

fine_beauty said:
			
		

> So grateful to know that you don't have the powers you professed *** mopping sweat off brows***
> 
> Its so great to know I aided you and hopefully, you'll stop vilifying what you don't understand. This Catholic does not bow to bashing and does not bash other members of the body of Christ. I suggest you do the same henceforth!



I guess you didn't sense my sarcasm.

In like manner, this Christian does not bow to bashing , and does not believe she was "vilifying what she didn't understand". 

Now really, I digress.


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> I guess you didn't sense my sarcasm.
> 
> In like manner, this Christian does not bow to bashing , and does not believe she was "vilifying what she didn't understand".
> 
> Now really, I digress.



I sure didn't, Sister and it's all good in this house. Oh by the way, its  good to know that statements like that were not meant to vilify. If those weren't I wonder what in your book stands up as vilification.

You stated that you don't bow to bashing but never stated that you don't bash. Is that an omission or are you consenting by being silent on that one?


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> I guess you didn't sense my sarcasm.
> 
> In like manner, this Christian does not bow to bashing , and does not believe she was "vilifying what she didn't understand".
> 
> Now really, I digress.



I respond because my faith is important to me and I don't like it belittled. Anyway, in the light of our Lord's prayer that we be one, I'm offering you the olive branch for truce. EssentialGrowth, you're my sister in Christ. If it's important to our Lord, it's important to me. 
God bless


----------



## LondonDiva (Apr 3, 2005)

Laginappe said:
			
		

> Holy Father is just one of his titles. Just like your country's leader's title is Queen. Now when she's referred to in the media as Queen - should everyone else get upset becuase she's not our Queen?


 


No. Our country's leader is called Tony Blair.  The Queen has hardly any power in this country as some might think (but that's a whole other thread in another board)

What does that have to do with anything, by you giving the Queen as an example?  Forget analogies, talk about the 'Holy Father' in question.  I personally do not like the fact that the Pope is referred to as the Holy Father as I believe that there is only one who should be referred to as such.  I'm not going to be swayed because he was a very Holy man who lived a Christ like life.  I'm entitled to have that view and opinion.  Just as others feel that it's ok for him to be referred to as the Holy Father.  What gets me a little ticked off is that there's an explanation as to why he's referred to as the Holy Father and we're just supposed to accept it because it's been explained.  Sorry but no.  Some agree and some don't.  Simple as that.


----------



## Laginappe (Apr 3, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> No. Our country's leader is called Tony Blair. The Queen has hardly any power in this country as some might think (but that's a whole other thread in another board)
> 
> What does that have to do with anything, by you giving the Queen as an example? Forget analogies, talk about the 'Holy Father' in question. I personally do not like the fact that the Pope is referred to as the Holy Father as I believe that there is only one who should be referred to as such. I'm not going to be swayed because he was a very Holy man who lived a Christ like life. I'm entitled to have that view and opinion. Just as others feel that it's ok for him to be referred to as the Holy Father. What gets me a little ticked off is that there's an explanation as to why he's referred to as the Holy Father and we're just supposed to accept it because it's been explained. Sorry but no. Some agree and some don't. Simple as that.


 
Ok. If it bothers you that a man that you don't know, of a faith that you don't follow, is referred to by a title that means nothing to you...then that's your issue.  Tony Blair is your country's leader. Ok so he's referred to as Prime Minister then correct?  Whenever he's discussed over here, his title is used. It's how he's addressed.  I don't have a Prime Minister and frankly whenever the term is put to me, I think of Tony Blair but that's neither here nor there. 

If it bother's you that much that the Pope is referred to as Holy Father, then by all means take action. Write letters to your news media. Make your outrage known. Change only comes via action.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 3, 2005)

SVT said:
			
		

> And the purpose of your sarcasm is?


 
*fine_beauty, SVT, and Tai... no I was not being sarcastic.  I said "not trying to be mean or anything" so no one would take it offensive.  I guess I used the wrong words.  I was just making the point that God is my holy father and no man can be my holy father.  That's all. *


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 3, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> Why is everyone jumping on Poohbear? I know she never meant any harm, and I personally refer to my 'father' as dad. ITA with her my only father is the Lord. IMHO I think the reason she said not to be mean is because many times she's been 'cut down' on other sections of this board and misunderstood. I was actually going to post another topic regarding this actually, but it might get quite heated, plus I'm a lil tired about does anyone else find it offensive that in the media they keep referring to him as the holy father. I thought it was just me, but as I was chatting online with my friend in NYC last night she had to turn the TV off as she was mad they kept referring to him as that also. In the Bible I'm sure it says that you are to refer to no one else as Father other than the Lord himself. Where it states this I don't know.


*Thanks LondonDiva! *


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 3, 2005)

Nice said:
			
		

> My thing is if you are not Catholic, why respond to the thread? Obviously Poohbear can't relate to what the people of the Catholic faith must be feeling right now. It wasn't a thread asking for opinions of who you consider to be your holy father. I just personally just don't see the point of a person adding their .02 that had nothing to do with the original post.


 


			
				Nice said:
			
		

> Well, I guess that I am just the type of person that skip over religious threads that don't apply to me  . I am not Catholic and I was not offended by her post. I had nothing encouraging to add in this time of mourning so I just kept it moving  .


 
*So... why did u post in this thread??? *


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 3, 2005)

blaxalrose said:
			
		

> No one is censoring (yet) the right of people to disagree, I just think that the use of the term "father" by Catholics isn't the way that Poohbear and others take it mean, they aren't saying the Pope is God the Father, they are referring to the Pope with an affectionate term, much as you call your dad, dad or father, its a title of affection.


*Oh okay! Thanks for your explanation! Now I understand what was meant when fine_beauty said "holy father" in reference to the Pope.  I just see God as the only "Holy Father" because no man on this earth is holy and perfect.  I associate holiness with perfection. *


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 3, 2005)

EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> With fine_beauty starting off her post with "Hey everyone, I was initially saddened by the death of OUR holy father" she is addressing everyone as if we are all Catholics. We are not, and POOHBEAR rightfully took the stance to state who she believed to be her Father.


 *You hit it right on the nose!!!   This statement made by fine_beauty stuck out to me for some reason.  That's why I posted what I posted.  I wasn't being funny or sarcastic... just stating my belief...even though it was somewhat off subject.*


----------



## fine_beauty (Apr 3, 2005)

I'm sorry for misunderstanding you, Poohbear!

A lot of Catholic bashing has taken place before today and today and your statement just seemed like one of them. If you go through the entire thread you'd notice that some did take your statement as an avenue to do 'the bash'.

My apologies again and do please, ask in the line of "Catholics here enlighten me on why x,y,z is done by Catholics". It would be easier to understand and less likely to cause rancor.

Thanks!



			
				Poohbear said:
			
		

> *fine_beauty, SVT, and Tai... no I was not being sarcastic.  I said "not trying to be mean or anything" so no one would take it offensive.  I guess I used the wrong words.  I was just making the point that God is my holy father and no man can be my holy father.  That's all. *


----------



## Nice (Apr 3, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> *So... why did u post in this thread??? *


 
Because I feel that you should think about what you are saying and how it may come across to other people. These are very sensitive times. As a christian woman, I would think that you would be more sensitive to these things even if you don't agree.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 3, 2005)

fine_beauty said:
			
		

> I'm sorry for misunderstanding you, Poohbear!
> 
> A lot of Catholic bashing has taken place before today and today and your statement just seemed like one of them. If you go through the entire thread you'd notice that some did take your statement as an avenue to do 'the bash'.
> 
> ...


*Yeah, I saw the thread about Catholics not being Christians... I thought it was cruel and so untrue.  If they studied history, Catholicism was the very first Christian denomination. I think it's okay to have disagreements about certain beliefs (since that's what's gonna happen anyway when you have different Christian denominations coming together).  But that thread that Options created was terrible and insulting to Catholics.  Don't take that thread out on all Non-Catholics. Thanks for understanding. Take care!!!!  *


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 3, 2005)

Nice said:
			
		

> Because I feel that you should think about what you are saying and how it may come across to other people. These are very sensitive times. As a christian woman, I would think that you would be more sensitive to these things even if you don't agree.


Like I said in an earlier post..."holy father" stuck out to me in fine_beauty's post... now I understand that her audience was Catholics... As a Christian woman, I stand for my God...And about what you said about watching how I come across to other people...Same for you and everyone else!


----------

