# Her 4b is not MY 4b ....hair type



## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

Ok.


So I see plenty of sistas on here saying that they are 4b. In my mind, IMO, 4b hair is very coarse hair. To ME, coarse hair does not have a defined curl or wave pattern. TO ME, 4b hair is very cottony like in that you cannot deterimine any kind of pattern to it when looking at how the hairs loop around.  It is not like small pen springs or loose roller waves. AT LEAST MY 4B HAIR DOES NOT! 

Am I wrong? 

I am asking because I have a patch of 4b in the back of my head that makes it hella hard to stretch.  All the CW and pooing, oooing and ahhing over it will not allow me to get a comb through it come 8 weeks without MAJOR breakage.  That section does not wave up. It does not curl up. Nada. It is HELLA DRY and those bad boys are THE driest hairs on my entire body especially as I stretch. 

I am *venting* because several sistas on here will say that they are 4b. Cool.   I am then reading all their advice about what products to use when stretching that never work for me, and how to best comb through, and how to stretch, yada, yada. 

Fast forward. 

Eight months later when they decide to BC because they had the best time stretching with no breakage and then you see their natural hair. 

All nicely coiled and wavy, etc. All the while, I'm thinking...no she didn't!   This chick had me thinking I could strecth 50+ weeks just by using a dime size amount of conditioner every two weeks and her hair is NATURALLY curly (and not coarse!). 

So....am I beyond 4b then? Who on here is a TRUE 4b hair type if I am right? Does anyone understand what I am trying to say?!?!??!


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## Radianthealth (Sep 24, 2007)

Funny

I assure you that I am a 4B

This is an example of what I consider to be 4B hair:







http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=goodscentsperfume


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

^^^ Yeah another true 4b!

 That's me. My hair is JUST like that.


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## wheezy807 (Sep 24, 2007)

Is 4a coarser than 4b?


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## Lady Esquire (Sep 24, 2007)

I have thought the same thing.  I look at a lot of people who claim 4b and their hair seems to be way more looser than my kinks.  I have hair that is very very coarse.  So maybe my hair is 4c, a category that I am claiming.


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## Radianthealth (Sep 24, 2007)

That isn't my hair, but it is how my hair looked when it was natural


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## FAMUDva (Sep 24, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> So I see plenty of sistas on here saying that they are 4b. In my mind, IMO, 4b hair is very coarse hair. To ME, coarse hair does not have a defined curl or wave pattern. TO ME, 4b hair is very cottony like in that you cannot deterimine any kind of pattern to it when looking at how the hairs loop around. It is not like small pen springs or loose roller waves. AT LEAST MY 4B HAIR DOES NOT!
> ...


 
I got what you're saying! I'm not a 4b, but I AM 4a mostly... And I feel ya though.


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## klb120475 (Sep 24, 2007)

wheezy807 said:


> Is 4a coarser than 4b?


 

Other way around, 4b is coarser than 4a.


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## *KP* (Sep 24, 2007)

Where is the definitive list of hair types?  I really don't know if I am 4A, 4B or 4Q.

Is there one?


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## Twisties (Sep 24, 2007)

Well your post was funny as heck I know that!  

I will never forget the lightbulb that went off for me when people started talking about just wet it and put gel and it will get really curly.  I would look at the pic and go that is not 4a or 4b hair.   So THAT's why I didn't get the results following that particular tip.


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## natieya (Sep 24, 2007)

Me too! Yup! That's my hair type! 



trimbride said:


> Funny
> 
> I assure you that I am a 4B
> 
> ...


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## Legend (Sep 24, 2007)

Interesting thread. I’ve thought about the same thing, too. 

There are gradations of many hair types, which are pretty generalized. My 4B hair is anything but cottony, but sharp and wiry, each strand about the thickness of sewing thread. Ido have a wave pattern, but it’s a sharp “Z” not an “S” and very irregular. It doesn’t kink or coil (though I’ve discovered a new coily patch recently ), but just sort of shoots straight up from my head. (I have my father’s hair  ) I texlax it because it cannot be too straight.

I attached a fair digital representation of my hair strands. The Natural version is on the top, the texlaxed version is on the bottom.


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## SweetCaramel1 (Sep 24, 2007)

too funny  i have a combination head of 4b, 4a and a few strands of 3c around my temples and in the back. 


this is after 6 months no relaxer. i believe this is 4b........ correct me if i'm wrong


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

That's why a sista needs pics. I don't mind people confusing 4a with 3b. or 3a with 3b. 

But I'm thinking if I'm at the end of the spectrum of hair types (as in my hair is very very coarse) so there should be no confusion as to what 4b is unless there needs to be another type added on for people like me.... like 4c or 5a.


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## klb120475 (Sep 24, 2007)

special_k said:


> Where is the definitive list of hair types? I really don't know if I am 4A, 4B or 4Q.
> 
> Is there one?


 


Go to the home page of LHCF and click on hair types.


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetCaramel1 said:


> too funny  i have a combination head of 4b, 4a and a few strands of 3c around my temples and in the back.
> 
> 
> this is after 6 months no relaxer. i believe this is 4b........ correct me if i'm wrong


 

pic is too blurry for me to tell if we share 4b roots...


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## TLC1020 (Sep 24, 2007)

Although one say they are a 4b I think it vary on many different factors.
I believe you can see it best on natural hair textures b/c although you see the newgrowth the chemicals and product we use alters our hair texture as well as our genetic makeup. Although my hair is a 4b my texture it is not spongy, its coarse and thick and without a relaxer my newgrowth begin to dred at the roots in a z pattern.


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## Country gal (Sep 24, 2007)

The hair typing and skin coloring is not an exact science. Just like folks have difference opinions on skin color the same is true on hair typing. I got in the habit of saying 4a/4b because I was told that's how my hair looked. I believe I am more of a 4a. My hair coils, curls up into a S without product. 

I learned to do what is best for me. I take a little advice here and there but have found a really good routine for me.


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

Don't get me wrong....

Most Black people have a mixture of 4b, 4a, 3 whatever on their heads. I know I do...but that 4b section that is the entire back of my big ole head..... there is no confusion as to what it is....and I am reminded of it everytime I try to go beyond 8 weeks and have major breakage NO MATTER WHAT I DO.

I'm also thinking if I can barely stretch NOW, then how would I ever transition without a BC...


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## glamazon386 (Sep 24, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> So I see plenty of sistas on here saying that they are 4b. In my mind, IMO, 4b hair is very coarse hair. To ME, coarse hair does not have a defined curl or wave pattern. TO ME, 4b hair is very cottony like in that you cannot deterimine any kind of pattern to it when looking at how the hairs loop around.  It is not like small pen springs or loose roller waves. AT LEAST MY 4B HAIR DOES NOT!
> ...




To my understanding, your idea of 4b is correct. 4b hair does not curl. However, we have to remember that there is variety within each hair type too. All 4a's don't look like my hair, but my hair is still 4a with some 3c. I don't have any 4b hair at all. All people's thickness and density play a factor too. My hair is fine. If it was thicker, I'm sure it would look different.

Sometimes when people have other types mixed in, it will make their hair look different. Like people with both 4a and 4b. The 4a pieces being mixed in can make the hair look different.

And also, for people who are relaxed and stretching, their relaxed hair may be weighing down the natural hair so their pattern looks looser.


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## Twisties (Sep 24, 2007)

Country gal said:


> The hair typing and skin coloring is not an exact science. Just like folks have difference opinions on skin color the same is true on hair typing. I got in the habit of saying 4a/4b because I was told that's how my hair looked. I believe I am more of a 4a. My hair coils, curls up into a S without product.
> 
> I learned to do what is best for me. I take a little advice here and there but have found a really good routine for me.


 
Good post and summary.  I agree with this totally!


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## scorpian (Sep 24, 2007)

My natural hair is 4b....I get what the op is sayin'..I see people who have 4b under their hair type and I'm like  most of them look more like a 3c or looser.. not that that's good or bad but it's not the same thing as 4b


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## SweetCaramel1 (Sep 24, 2007)

here's another one. look toward the front of my hair line.  this is 4 months no relaxer.  




-vi.jpg?1175291675[/IMG]


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## HoneyA (Sep 24, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> So I see plenty of sistas on here saying that they are 4b. In my mind, IMO, 4b hair is very coarse hair. To ME, coarse hair does not have a defined curl or wave pattern. TO ME, 4b hair is very cottony like in that you cannot deterimine any kind of pattern to it when looking at how the hairs loop around. It is not like small pen springs or loose roller waves. AT LEAST MY 4B HAIR DOES NOT!
> ...


 

I so get what you are trying to say. Sometimes I look at pics of 4a 4b hair and I'm like...my hair does not look like that...all wavy and curly. My hair (NG) at the front does not go all wavy even with all the S-curl in the world and after tying my head so tight with a satin scarf that it cuts off circulation. It's flatter and softer but not with defined waves. I believe I've got mostly 4a/4b at the crown and front with some 3c at the back.


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## brownsugarflyygirl (Sep 24, 2007)

This post is funny 

Thats all I had to contribute.


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## NYAmicas (Sep 24, 2007)

lol at your indignation

I still think I'm trying to find my hair type too but I consider it 4b and I definetly sympathize with your stretching pains.


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## InnerSoul (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetCaramel1 said:


> too funny  i have a combination head of 4b, 4a and a few strands of 3c around my temples and in the back.
> 
> 
> this is after 6 months no relaxer. i believe this is 4b........ correct me if i'm wrong


 
same here. I have 4b in the crown(thick coils like that of a telephone cord),4a on sides and front, and 3c in the very back(looser waves). This is very frustrating to me b/c a product will work on one type of my hair and not the other type. My mom knew when I was little that I had different textures all throughout my head..she is the one that had to take care of it then...but now that I am it's like!


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## rdm (Sep 24, 2007)

All this time, I thought I was 4a/4b combo.  I now realize that I am a 3c/4a combo.


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetCaramel1 said:


> here's another one. look toward the front of my hair line. this is 4 months no relaxer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I see it.......4b...........squinting really hard though..... 


My hair is like Scorpian's (?) daughter's hair (I hope she doesn't mind).  My natural hair looks just like her daughter's hair in her siggy.  My pics growing up looked like that.  To me, there is no confusion as to 4b hair.  I see pics of other people's hair on here and I'm like .....fine or thick...that is EXACTLY how my 4b hair looks too....


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## SweetCaramel1 (Sep 24, 2007)

InnerSoul said:


> same here. I have 4b in the crown(thick coils like that of a telephone cord),4a on sides and front, and 3c in the very back(looser waves). This is very frustrating to me b/c a product will work on one type of my hair and not the other type. My mom knew when I was little that I had different textures all throughout my head..she is the one that had to take care of it then...but now that I am it's like!


 
yeah it's very fustrating and hard to relax.  if you leave it on the wrong part for too long it breaks off while the other part doesn't get straight   i've decided to do 15 minutes regardless.  if it gets straight great, if it doesn't oh well


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## janeemat (Sep 24, 2007)

Girl I feel ya!  I've wondered the same thing.  My hair would look just like the pic Trimbride posted if I did not relax.  I am 4b all the way and have the beady beads to show it.  My hair is just thinner.


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

rdm said:


> All this time, I thought I was 4a/4b combo. I now realize that I am a 3c/4a combo.


 

My job here is done....as long as this thread enlightened one lost soul.


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## scorpian (Sep 24, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> I see it.......4b...........squinting really hard though.....
> 
> 
> My hair is like Scorpian's (?) daughter's hair (I hope she doesn't mind).  My natural hair looks just like her daughter's hair in her siggy.  My pics growing up looked like that.  To me, there is no confusion as to 4b hair.  I see pics of other people's hair on here and I'm like .....fine or thick...that is EXACTLY how my 4b hair looks too....



Of course I don't mind


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## Determined22 (Sep 24, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> Don't get me wrong....
> 
> Most Black people have a mixture of 4b, 4a, 3 whatever on their heads. I know I do...*but that 4b section that is the entire back of my big ole head.....* there is no confusion as to what it is....and I am reminded of it everytime I try to go beyond 8 weeks and have major breakage NO MATTER WHAT I DO.
> 
> I'm also thinking if I can barely stretch NOW, then how would I ever transition without a BC...


 
The entire back of my head is 4b as well, or as I affectionally call it, "back to Africa"....If I were to cut off all my relaxed hair, I'd have a very cute tight 'fro.  I said to hell with it and stretching and just got some braids...and I'm thinking about a BC once I get out of the braids...


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## scorpian (Sep 24, 2007)

delete double post...........


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## Whisper (Sep 24, 2007)

bmoreflyygirl said:


> To my understanding, your idea of 4b is correct. 4b hair does not curl. However, we have to remember that there is variety within each hair type too. All 4a's don't look like my hair, but my hair is still 4a with some 3c. I don't have any 4b hair at all. All people's thickness and density play a factor too. My hair is fine. If it was thicker, I'm sure it would look different.
> 
> Sometimes when people have other types mixed in, it will make their hair look different. Like people with both 4a and 4b. The 4a pieces being mixed in can make the hair look different.
> 
> And also, for people who are relaxed and stretching, their relaxed hair may be weighing down the natural hair so their pattern looks looser.




good point!


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

scorpian said:


> Of course I don't mind


 
Whew! Thanks for not minding.

I was scurred for a minute.


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## nycutiepie (Sep 24, 2007)

janeemat said:


> Girl I feel ya! I've wondered the same thing. My hair would look just like the pic Trimbride posted if I did not relax. I am 4b all the way and have the beady beads to show it. My hair is just thinner.


 
We must be hair twins.  I am JUST like that picture except thinner.

OP - This is a great post and thanks for starting it!!


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## *Happily Me* (Sep 24, 2007)

I am definitely 4b with a little 4a thrown in  (it's time for me to review that double chin tightener thread )


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## itismehmmkay (Sep 24, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> I see it.......4b...........*squinting really hard though**..... *
> 
> 
> My hair is like Scorpian's (?) daughter's hair (I hope she doesn't mind).  My natural hair looks just like her daughter's hair in her siggy.  My pics growing up looked like that.  To me, there is no confusion as to 4b hair.  I see pics of other people's hair on here and I'm like .....fine or thick...that is EXACTLY how my 4b hair looks too....





  The whole thread is too much.

Now, my strands do make an "S" curl, but I still consider myself 4b 

I think there is a 4a/b category that includes those that are in between.


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

DSylla said:


> I am definitely 4b with a little 4a thrown in (it's time for me to review that double chin tightener thread )


 

Okkkkkkkkkkkkk................now I have hope!  I need to stalk your posts to find your routine and to see if you stretch long (past 8 weeks or not). We are so >>>>here<<<<<<< on being 4b.

4b sistas united...i feel the love!


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## mscocoface (Sep 24, 2007)

4b signing in.  Can we say BLACK COTTON!!!!!!!!! Please see siggy and avatar for review.

That is exactly what my hair looks like.  When anyone tells me their regimen and I know there hair type is different I am ALWAYS prepared to change the amount of product. 

When I had a relaxer I would use ALL of the product and kept it in as long as possible in order to get in bone straight.  My hair would promptly pay me back by breaking off just as quickly.

It holds water, heat (when I did use it) and takes forever to rinse out. Remember can'tcha don'tcha knots, well I am the poster chile.   We won't even discuss SHRINKAGE!!!!! (see siggy below)

I know exactly what you are saying, I have had to really learn to accept this as the hair I was born with because it will take you to the frustration zone, quick fast and in a hurry.

Now on the other hand I have never had a problem with my hair being thin, stringy or laying flat to my head.  It has always been thick, full and a lot of it. It grows out not down.  Don't know if that will ever change but looking forward to seeing if it does or NOT! 

I guess there are pros and cons to every hair texture!

Here is a lady that has 4B textured hair and I just love it.  When my hair grows up I hope it is like hers one day.

http://public.fotki.com/Kemi21/hair/june-2007/


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## curlycraze (Sep 24, 2007)

The truth is...There are over 100 different black hair textures, trust.


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## *Happily Me* (Sep 24, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> Okkkkkkkkkkkkk................now I have hope!  I need to stalk your posts to find your routine and to see if you stretch long (past 8 weeks or not). We are so >>>>here<<<<<<< on being 4b.
> 
> 4b sistas united...i feel the love!



i'm trying to stretch past 8 weeks but it's getting ridiculously harder.  My hair tangles soooo easily and if I don't comb it EVERDAY, it starts to dread.  I had to cut a knot out of my hair a few days ago 

In the beginning, i would stretch for up to 13 weeks but i can't do that anymore.   My hair in this pic is around 3 1/2 weeks post.  My texlaxed hair texture is very similar to straight up natural hair.


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 24, 2007)

I claim 4H


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## Katt73 (Sep 24, 2007)

cocoberry10 said:


> I claim 4H


 
Me too!  My hair is like DSylla's but a teensy bit "tighter".  Stretching beyond six weeks is like .


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 24, 2007)

This is why I can’t wait to grow my relaxer out entirely, so I will really know what type of hair I have!


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

Okkkk....I am SOOOOOOOOOO happy to hear other 4b sistas chiming in!

4b is not easy to deal with but it is what it is.  With everyone posting pics of how THEIR 4b hair makes nice waves and curls, etc. I'm like..I wish my 4b hair would....shoot......

I love my hair but it is not like OTHER 4bs showing up in this piece...


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 24, 2007)

DSylla said:


> i'm trying to stretch past 8 weeks but it's getting ridiculously harder.  My hair tangles soooo easily and if I don't comb it EVERDAY, it starts to dread.  I had to cut a knot out of my hair a few days ago
> 
> In the beginning, i would stretch for up to 13 weeks but i can't do that anymore.   My hair in this pic is around 3 1/2 weeks post.  My texlaxed hair texture is very similar to straight up natural hair.



I thought you had natural hair, but your hair looks good.  I know what you mean about the combing.  My hair always tangles and knots w/o combing!


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## hothair (Sep 24, 2007)

Country gal said:


> The hair typing and skin coloring is not an exact science. Just like folks have difference opinions on skin color the same is true on hair typing. I got in the habit of saying 4a/4b because I was told that's how my hair looked. I believe I am more of a 4a. My hair coils, curls up into a S without product.
> 
> *I learned to do what is best for me*. I take a little advice here and there but have found a really good routine for me.



 I just say 4a/b cause although my hair is coily (not curly) its dry and coarse, ok not anymore but when I started it was, and the ladies saying 4a seemed to have some silky hair I can hardly believe this new soft hair is mine, the more protein (my hair loves protein like an addict on crack) and moisture treatments i do the coilier my hair is getting, now I don't even have to wet it to see coilserplexed I'm still going to texlax though I want some silky rollersets


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## caligirl (Sep 24, 2007)

HoneyA said:


> My hair (NG) at the front does not go all wavy even with all the S-curl in the world and after tying my head so tight with a satin scarf that it cuts off circulation.



lol, lol!  ditto to everything you said.  i give up!  my hair is naturally nappy.


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

caligirl said:


> lol, lol! ditto to everything you said. i give up! my hair is *naturally nappy*.


 

Nothing wrong with that! Claim it! 

In one thread (long, long ago) a sista posted about how coarse and nappy her hair was and how she hated to deal with the tangles, dryness, etc. Well, don't you know...another sista....jumped on her. Why she gotta use such demeaning terms to describe OUR hair, and that it is not THAT bad to deal with, etc. 

I was huffing and puffing! The opined sista has CURLY hair (not a nappy knot anywhere in the mix) that has very well defined and soft curls that on a roller set, her strands would dry straight.  The nerve.  I was like....she doesn't understand what it takes to deal with 4b hair. Let the sista vent. 4b hair takes work!


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## meaganita (Sep 24, 2007)

DSylla said:


> I am definitely 4b with a little 4a thrown in (it's time for me to review that double chin tightener thread )


Yeah baby!  This is what I'm talking about.  I'm pretty sure I'm a 4a, but I definitely have some of this exact 4b sprinkled in there.  My 4b patches don't even respond to product.  It doesn't even matter what or how much I apply, the 4b just.  

OP, I sure am glad you posted this.  I was just nodding and laughing the whole time because I know EXACTLY what you're talking about.  I truly believe some women are just down right confused about their hair type.


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## Katt73 (Sep 24, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> Nothing wrong with that! Claim it!
> 
> In one thread (long, long ago) a sista posted about how coarse and nappy her hair was and how she hated to deal with the tangles, dryness, etc. Well, don't you know...another sista....jumped on her. Why she gotta use such demeaning terms to describe OUR hair, and that it is not THAT bad to deal with, etc.
> 
> I was huffing and puffing! The opined sista has CURLY hair (not a nappy knot anywhere in the mix) that has very well defined and soft curls that on a roller set, her strands would dry straight. The nerve. I was like....she doesn't understand what it takes to deal with 4b hair. Let the sista vent. 4b hair takes work!


 
Amen!  Preach!


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## localhost (Sep 24, 2007)

4z checking in. Yeah, that's right. 4z. This should be our new catagory on the real.

You know you're a 4z when:

You beg your hair to pleazzzzzzze cooperate if only for a minute!
You hear "snap, crackle, pop" when you try to run a comb through that new growth 
You flatiron your NG and workout, and it's like you never flatironed at all
There is no such thing as a wash n' go and never will be such a thing
There also isn't a such thing as laying down those roots with shea butter and a scarf and getting waves 
If you stretch for longer than 8 weeks, it brings on clinical depression . You get depressed because there just ain't no way in h*ll that your stylist (if you use one) will be able to sort through all of those naps without "snap, crackle, pop" ; and if you self relax, at least one area is guaranteed to come out underprocessed.
You can go swimming and the middle of your hair will still be DRY (just kidding on this one; D.L. Hugheley mentioned this in one of his stand-ups)
Feel free to add to the list.


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## FeelinIt (Sep 24, 2007)

I'm still not sure what texture I am but it is in the middle of 4a-b.  Snap Crackly and pop is my middle name.  I've been trying to keep my hair soft and moisturized for at least two days in a row.  Never happens.  I still have to wet my hair daily to keep it moist and soft.  No amount of butter, oils, sprays, spritzing, praying, sacrificing goats to the gods will keep my hair soft beyond a couple of hours.  

That's just the way it is.

Now I can do a wash and go but not the kind that curls up and lays down.  It's usually a wash and puff.  Still easier styling but come wash time it's a nightmare.

The biggest prob for me is I always have to keep my hair styled or in check.  No bed head style for me.  I can't just wake up and go because my hair gets smushed.  No waking up to a guy with beautiful hair all in place.  Usually I end up looking like GUMBY DAMMIT!  depending on which side I sleep.  

I'm getting braids in the near future because the washing and spritzing and detangling is a *****!

4b's I definitely feel you.


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## Twisties (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> 4z checking in. Yeah, that's right. 4z. This should be our new catagory on the real.
> 
> You know you're a 4z when:
> 
> ...


at this list.  I am not relaxed, but this thread is cracking me up.  

How about pressing your entire head, rolling up with 50-11 (HARD rollers) and going to bed and THINKING you will have a nice roller set in the am.   You wake up to a complete afro puff as if you never applied ANY heat to straighten it.  I did this and my hair was like

_ " Uhm, What you trying to do"?_


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## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> 4z checking in. Yeah, that's right. 4z. This should be our new catagory on the real.
> 
> You know you're a 4z when:
> 
> ...


 

Ohhhhhhhhhh.....my 4b sista....I so wanted to start a list like this. Thanks for setting it off.


The wash and go is classic. There is no such thing on 4b hair..relaxed or natural!  Somebody show me a pic to prove otherwise!


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## mscocoface (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> 4z checking in. Yeah, that's right. 4z. This should be our new catagory on the real.
> 
> You know you're a 4z when:
> You beg your hair to pleazzzzzzze cooperate if only for a minute!
> ...



Can I get a A to the Men!

When you blow dry, press, flat iron and use curling irons ALL on the highest setting because otherwise you will not get it straight.

When you look in the back to see how much growth you gained and all you see is a big ole mess of cotton because it does not lay down when it is nappy.

Putting your fingers through your naps it is like putting your fingers through a ball a loose yarn!If you can get them through there.

When you go up to a stylist and show her your naps and she says to you Oh' Lawd look at this chile's hair!

You are right ladies this hair type can build some serious character because it does not act like any other hair on earth.

I usually call my hair type 4bcdefgh because I don't believe Andre's typing system is inclusive enough.


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## HoneyA (Sep 24, 2007)

Twisties said:


> at this list. I am not relaxed, but this thread is cracking me up.
> 
> *How about pressing your entire head, rolling up with 50-11 (HARD rollers) and going to bed and THINKING you will have a nice roller set in the am. You wake up to a complete afro puff as if you never applied ANY heat to straighten it. I did this and my hair was like*
> 
> *" Uhm, What you trying to do"?*





too much!!!!!!


----------



## africa (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> 4z checking in. Yeah, that's right. 4z. This should be our new catagory on the real.
> 
> You know you're a 4z when:
> You beg your hair to pleazzzzzzze cooperate if only for a minute!
> ...



Okay...This thread brought me out of lurkdom and has me rolling on the floor laughing.  I'm a fellow 4zzzz and I FEEEELLL all of you.

Lol at the bolded... You can wash and go, but if your hair is over 4 inches  it will be matted and dreaded for days no  matter what product you use! Lol


----------



## BonBon (Sep 24, 2007)

I consider my hair 4b but it is curly/coily and fine.

 Maybe Im just confused


----------



## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

africa said:


> Okay...This thread brought me out of lurkdom and has me rolling on the floor laughing. I'm a fellow 4zzzz and I FEEEELLL all of you.
> 
> Lol at the bolded... You can wash and go, but if your hair is over 4 inches it will be matted and dreaded for days no matter what product you use! Lol


 
Welcome.  

We need more 4bs on here telling it like it is.....


----------



## Katt73 (Sep 24, 2007)

Ha ha!  

You know you're 4b when you cornrow your afro and folks keep asking you, "Did you get extensions?".  You wanna just slap 'em because you realize that they have no idea what we deal with with shrinkage.


----------



## meaganita (Sep 24, 2007)

Autumnluv said:


> I consider my hair 4b but it is curly/coily and fine.
> 
> *Maybe Im just confused*


Yeah girl.  Curly + Coily = 4a


----------



## loved (Sep 24, 2007)

U know u're 4z when: 

u're a LHCF newbie & really believe that you can do an 18 week stretch & when you take the cornrows out from your weave YOUR NG ACTUALLY SPEAKS  2 U & ASKS . . . DID U FORGET HOW I ROLL???

So you have a TWA w/ some relaxed strands sprouting in the air from it & u cancel all social engagements, until your scalp calms down enough 4 a relaxer. . .

In the interim, there is absolutely nothing u can do w/ the beast u created by not respecting that u ain't getting no  waves w/ a water bottle and a scarf, so u run & buy a wig hoping that this will get u through a few days of work

Then u spend the whole day pulling the wig down as it rises like yeast above the bush underneath.

That my friends is a day in the life of a 4zzzzzzzzer & that day is TODAY.


----------



## glamazon386 (Sep 24, 2007)

loved said:


> U know u're 4z when:
> 
> u're a LHCF newbie & really believe that you can do an 18 week stretch & when you take the cornrows out from your weave YOUR NG ACTUALLY SPEAKS  2 U & ASKS . . . DID U FORGET HOW I ROLL???
> 
> ...




 @ this whole post....


----------



## Twisties (Sep 24, 2007)

loved said:


> U know u're 4z when:
> 
> u're a LHCF newbie & really believe that you can do an 18 week stretch & when you take the cornrows out *from your weave YOUR NG ACTUALLY SPEAKS 2 U & ASKS . . . DID U FORGET HOW I ROLL???*
> 
> ...


 
tears are streaming down my face 

especially 'bout that wig. girl, one time the 'fro up under my wig was so thick that the wig was UP in the air on my head basically and i had the audacity to clip it down with hair pins and -- i went to work looking like a cone head and didn't care either.

ETA:  i had to put the wig on in the first place because i tried to do a wash and go (as someone said - iturned out to be *wash and no*) and that was not working out that morning.  so i grabbed my handing dandy wig and forced on top of the bush.  oh sweet jesus, mercy - i have somany funny stories.


----------



## KhandiB (Sep 24, 2007)

I used to think I was a 4b 

then they told me I was a 4a

http://public.fotki.com/Khandi/2006_progress/hair_styles/underprocessed.html

My bad


----------



## Ms Kraft (Sep 24, 2007)

loved said:


> U know u're 4z when:
> 
> u're a LHCF newbie & really believe that you can do an 18 week stretch & when you take the cornrows out from your weave YOUR NG ACTUALLY SPEAKS  2 U & ASKS . . . DID U FORGET HOW I ROLL???
> 
> ...



Okay, Loved!!  You got me!


----------



## localhost (Sep 24, 2007)

loved said:


> U know u're 4z when:
> 
> u're a LHCF newbie & really believe that you can do an 18 week stretch & when you take the cornrows out from your weave YOUR NG ACTUALLY SPEAKS  2 U & ASKS . . . DID U FORGET HOW I ROLL???
> 
> ...



 That's real talk right there.  I'm to the point if ONE more person studies my hairline while talking to me, I'm going to snap!


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Sep 24, 2007)

This is a great thread!  I'm not a 4B but I'm close (i'm 4A) and I can relate!!!


----------



## localhost (Sep 24, 2007)

mscocoface said:


> Can I get a A to the Men!
> 
> * When you blow dry, press, flat iron and use curling irons ALL on the highest setting because otherwise you will not get it straight.
> *
> ...



I've burned my forehead and ears so many times using tools from hell, it's not even funny.   And my hair still wasn't completely straight


----------



## localhost (Sep 24, 2007)

Twisties said:


> at this list.  I am not relaxed, but this thread is cracking me up.
> 
> How about pressing your entire head, rolling up with 50-11 (HARD rollers) and going to bed and THINKING you will have a nice roller set in the am.   You wake up to a complete afro puff as if you never applied ANY heat to straighten it.  I did this and my hair was like
> 
> _ " Uhm, What you trying to do"?_



 YESSS!  Talk about going into panic mode.


----------



## nycutiepie (Sep 24, 2007)

I foolishly try to stretch (5 mos+) but this post has inspired me so much that I am coming out of denial and will no longer fight the jungle and follow the advice of those that I thought were 4zs and really are not.

I share all of your pain and I have a trick for the wig wearers if anyone is interested.  I wear half-wigs because in addition to major naps, I have a thin bedebee hairline and there is no way that I can look decent without covering this stuff up.  In order to prevent the "rising wig/yeast like syndrome" previously alluded to, I use a headband that has an elastic-like band in the back and I anchor the wig under the elastic so it holds it in place.  I also use a scarf and tie the scarf over the wig at the nape.  Hope this helps somebody and thanks again to the OP for letting me know that I am not alone!


----------



## Twisties (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> YESSS! Talk about going into panic mode.


 
Girl, yes! During my disaster days, I would say forget it and wear a puff.  I would get so many compliments on the puff too.  All this stuff we talking 'bout is how I became TWISTIES.  Two-strand twists saved my hair. 

This thread has been comic relief --- not even sure if the OP intended that, but it's all good.


----------



## Twisties (Sep 24, 2007)

nycutiepie said:


> I foolishly try to stretch (5 mos+) but this post has inspired me so much that I am coming out of denial and will no longer fight the jungle and follow the advice of those that I thought were 4zs and really are not.
> 
> I share all of your pain and I have a trick for the wig wearers if anyone is interested. I wear half-wigs because in addition to major naps, I have a thin bedebee hairline and there is no way that I can look decent without covering this stuff up. In order to prevent the "rising wig/yeast like syndrome" previously alluded to, I use a headband that has an elastic-like band in the back and I anchor the wig under the elastic so it holds it in place. I also use a scarf and tie the scarf over the wig at the nape. Hope this helps somebody and thanks again to the OP for letting me know that I am not alone!


 
We all understand This is good tip too.

Another one for flattening the bush under a half wig is to put in some basic cornrows going straight back (about 6-10 depending on the amount of hair you have), while leaviing a very thin part out at the front that you can press and then smooth down with gel. I do this when I know I am going be wearing my wigs. I think Tyra Banks has done this when wearing her lace fronts too.


----------



## BeetleBug (Sep 24, 2007)

curlycraze said:


> The truth is...There are over 100 different black hair textures, trust.


 
I do believe this.


----------



## harrison (Sep 24, 2007)

mscocoface said:


> 4b signing in. Can we say BLACK COTTON!!!!!!!!! Please see siggy and avatar for review.
> 
> That is exactly what my hair looks like. When anyone tells me their regimen and I know there hair type is different I am ALWAYS prepared to change the amount of product.
> 
> ...


 
MSCOCO.. I am in your boat too... 
I have learned so much about my hair over the last year. Since I have actively tried to maintain it without chemicals, locs, or braids. All were quick fixes to dealing with thick course hair. At least for me it was. 

When my hair was relaxed bone straight it was still thick. People always thought it was a weave or wig or something.

But now I have found some products and methods to help me maintain it naturally!!!

It definitely takes time and patience.


----------



## hothair (Sep 24, 2007)

KhandiB said:


> I used to think I was a 4b
> 
> then they told me I was a 4a
> 
> ...



Hey! You my hair twin? That's what my hair looks like but all natural, cool ok so I AM 4a hmm...


----------



## harrison (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> 4z checking in. Yeah, that's right. 4z. This should be our new catagory on the real.
> 
> You know you're a 4z when:
> 
> ...


 
These are funny...
I do wash n go anyway.. and puff puff away!!!


----------



## sunshinelady (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> That's real talk right there.  I'm to the point if ONE more person studies my hairline while talking to me, I'm going to snap!



Dang, this happens to me too!  I hate that!


----------



## SleepyJean (Sep 24, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> So I see plenty of sistas on here saying that they are 4b. In my mind, IMO, 4b hair is very coarse hair. To ME, coarse hair does not have a defined curl or wave pattern. TO ME, 4b hair is very cottony like in that you cannot deterimine any kind of pattern to it when looking at how the hairs loop around. It is not like small pen springs or loose roller waves. AT LEAST MY 4B HAIR DOES NOT!
> ...


 
Finally, someone who understand what I am saying. Some people are just lying. They have no idea with 4B hair really is. My hair has NO CURL DEFINITION WHAT SO EVER! I am 4b.


----------



## sunshinelady (Sep 24, 2007)

The few times that I have tried to flat iron/press my hair, I go outside on a beautiful 0% humidity day and my hair slowly starts to stand up.  I end up looking like some crazy banshee!


----------



## SleepyJean (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetCaramel1 said:


> too funny  i have a combination head of 4b, 4a and a few strands of 3c around my temples and in the back.
> 
> 
> this is after 6 months no relaxer. i believe this is 4b........ correct me if i'm wrong


 
Honestly, it looks more like 3c/4a


----------



## harrison (Sep 24, 2007)

loved said:


> U know u're 4z when:
> 
> In the interim, there is absolutely nothing u can do w/ the beast u created by not respecting that u ain't getting no waves w/ a water bottle and a scarf, *so u run & buy a wig hoping that this will get u through a few days of work*
> 
> ...


 
THAT'S WHY I'VE STOPPED WEARING MY ONE WIG... IT KEPT RISING TO THE TOP!!! GIVING ME A CONE HEAD!!!!!


----------



## secretdiamond (Sep 24, 2007)

shorthairforever said:


> Honestly, it looks more like 3c/4a


 
Agreed. 

I'm so glad this thread was started!   I've noticed the same thing!  There are hair idols on here who say they are 4b, but then, I'll look at their albums and be like, no wonder they can stretch for 5 years & I can't!  I'm alllll 4b and I've figured my hair out.  The dreads and breakage were no longer working for me so I stopped.  My hair and I are happy together again. lol....


----------



## nativequeen (Sep 24, 2007)

meaganita said:


> Yeah baby! This is what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure I'm a 4a, but I definitely have some of this exact 4b sprinkled in there. My 4b patches don't even respond to product. It doesn't even matter what or how much I apply, the 4b just.
> 
> *OP, I sure am glad you posted this. I was just nodding and laughing the whole time because I know EXACTLY what you're talking about.* I truly believe some women are just down right confused about their hair type.


 

Ditto to the bolded. it takes one to know one


----------



## natieya (Sep 24, 2007)

DSylla said:


> I am definitely 4b with a little 4a thrown in  (it's time for me to review that double chin tightener thread )




Hi DSylla!  This is exactly how my hair looked as a young girl!   You have gorgeous skin by the way!


----------



## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

nycutiepie said:


> I foolishly try to stretch (5 mos+) but this post has inspired me so much that I am coming out of denial and will no longer fight the jungle and follow the advice of those that I thought were 4zs and really are not.
> 
> I share all of your pain and I have a trick for the wig wearers if anyone is interested. I wear half-wigs because in addition to major naps, I have a thin bedebee hairline and there is no way that I can look decent without covering this stuff up. In order to prevent the "rising wig/yeast like syndrome" previously alluded to, I use a headband that has an elastic-like band in the back and I anchor the wig under the elastic so it holds it in place. I also use a scarf and tie the scarf over the wig at the nape. Hope this helps somebody and *thanks again to the OP for letting me know that I am not alone*!


 

Gurl, *I* needed to know I was not alone..... thanks for chiming in!


----------



## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

Twisties said:


> Girl, yes! During my disaster days, I would say forget it and wear a puff. I would get so many compliments on the puff too. All this stuff we talking 'bout is how I became TWISTIES. Two-strand twists saved my hair.
> 
> *This thread has been comic relief --- not even sure if the OP intended that, but it's all good*.


 

Not a problem.  I laugh everytime I read on here about someone stretching for eons with no breakage and claiming to be 4b.


----------



## ChanelNo5 (Sep 24, 2007)

Don't mean to hijack the thread but since yall nappy-headed heffas  didn't respond to my thread on softening super course 4b hair and we all in the same spot right now.... any tips?


----------



## sunshinelady (Sep 24, 2007)

ChanelNo5 said:


> Don't mean to hijack the thread but since yall nappy-headed heffas  didn't respond to my thread on softening super course 4b hair and we all in the same spot right now.... any tips?



Umm did you just say the N-word?  :hardslap:

Don Imus is that you????  I'll sue.


----------



## natieya (Sep 24, 2007)

loved said:


> U know u're 4z when:
> 
> u're a LHCF newbie & really believe that you can do an 18 week stretch & when you take the cornrows out from your weave YOUR NG ACTUALLY SPEAKS  2 U & ASKS . . . DID U FORGET HOW I ROLL???
> 
> ...





I love this!  This is my life! I am always saying that I have a mini afro underneath my ponytail.


----------



## ChanelNo5 (Sep 24, 2007)

quote..Umm did you just say the N-word? :hardslap:

Don Imus is that you???? I'll sue. quote


I apologize, I didn't mean to offend anyone.  I say the "n" word proudly.


----------



## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

ChanelNo5 said:


> Don't mean to hijack the thread but since yall nappy-headed heffas  didn't respond to my thread on softening super course 4b hair and we all in the same spot right now.... any tips?


 

I have no clue. When you find out, please jump back in here and let a sista know. 

i have tried sooo many things, including adding honey to conditioners. No.


----------



## sunshinelady (Sep 24, 2007)

ChanelNo5 said:


> quote..Umm did you just say the N-word? :hardslap:
> 
> Don Imus is that you???? I'll sue. quote
> 
> ...



No biggie, I poking fun at the phrase.


----------



## facets (Sep 24, 2007)

meaganita said:


> Yeah girl.  Curly + Coily = 4a



ok, now i'm confused too...what if they're small coils that only come up when the hair is wet and/or in conditioner... A or B?

Does this make a difference in care/regimen?

are there old threads abt this?  

That's what i get for yakking over in OT and ENT 'steada learning.


----------



## Twisties (Sep 24, 2007)

ChanelNo5 said:


> quote..Umm did you just say the N-word? :hardslap:
> 
> Don Imus is that you???? I'll sue. quote
> 
> ...


 

I do too! I thought the problem was with the H word he used (H-o), not the word nappy. I am never offended at the word nappy. I guess some people might be though, hmmmm.


Lets see on softening the hair. Deep moisturizing treatments help a lot. I mentioned in an earlier thread today that I use GPB by Audrey Organics as a deep conditioner 2x's a month. I also alternate with Nixon Hydrating Mask on the remaining washes during the month. I wash either once or 2x's a week. I am probably considered bad on this (so do what is best for you), but I use grease. When I tried not to use grease during one of my all natural products tips when I first discovered haircare forums, my hair got really hard and popped and broke off when it dried. So what I do, is after I do my wash and deep condition, while my hair is still very wet, I coat it with grease, YEP grease (I use either vaseline or old fashion Blue Magic Coconut Grease). This MIGHT work for some and it might not for others, but you really have to play around with all of the suggestions you have seen through out the boards. I think the damage with grease in the past came because if you are old school, you would only wash your hair every two-three weeks (some of us remember those dayserplexed). BUT if you *wash at least once or twice a week,* you will probably be ok. If you have tried everything else like I did, try grease on your wet hair only (not scalp) and see if that gives a bit of relief. 

Also, since I mainly wear twists or plaits I, very, very lightly dampen my hair in the am and put on a shower cap and keep it on until fully dressed-this helps soften and moisturize it daily. Once I hop out and have gotten dressed (I keep the cap on till the very last minute), I put in a bit of ORS Olive Lotion and that's it. My hair stay soft this way and I have TRUE 4A/B NAPPY Hair. *I will state that I am NOT trying to resist shrinkage, so if you are, this might not work for you. *

*Good luck with finding something that works for you.*


----------



## envybeauty (Sep 24, 2007)

facets said:


> ok, now i'm confused too...what if they're small coils that only come up when the hair is wet and/or in conditioner... A or B?
> 
> Does this make a difference in care/regimen?
> 
> ...


 

:buttkick:

 we want "no child left behind"


----------



## chicacanella (Sep 24, 2007)

Well, don't worry I've thought the same thing when I see people say there hair is 3c/4a like mine and it looks nothing like mine.

Most of the time it's newbies that don't understand the hair chart.


----------



## frochoice (Sep 24, 2007)

Tenny said:


> ^^^ she was only joshing you
> 
> my hair is 4#$^&)
> 
> ...


 
All I have to say is THANK GOD FOR THIS POST. As a recovering lurker I've had this problem a lot. It may seem trivial but it is especially important when it comes to product reviews. Amen to the poster who said 4B HAS NO CURL. Yet time and time again there is a new post of a 4b hair with curl definition with product X. Pseudo-4b'ers have cost me a lot of money dangit! (Sorry need someone to blame for my PJismgrin.

Some of this comes from the fact that we have all been called 'nappy' or kinky so some assume that we all must have the same coarse, wiry 90% shrinking 4b mat. I've also seen websites describing hair types being very misleading so that it appears their product works for all hair types.

I especially love how some sites define 4b hair with Erykah Badu rocking a Large curly fro-weave!!! Or better yet a picture of Beyonce. Has anyone EVER seen her real hair???

Anyway my 2 cents. I work hard with my hair. And unless its braided or twisted there is no 2nd day hair. Wash and go to me means tight AFRO. If that don't apply - YOU AINT 4B!!!

Dont get me wrong I love my hair texture...just want to vent a common frustration (and pet peeve) regarding mislabeling of textures. 

PS Tenny, we might be hair twins.


----------



## facets (Sep 24, 2007)

FeelinIt said:


> I'm still not sure what texture I am but it is in the middle of 4a-b.  Snap Crackly and pop is my middle name.  I've been trying to keep my hair soft and moisturized for at least two days in a row.  Never happens.  I still have to wet my hair daily to keep it moist and soft.  No amount of butter, oils, sprays, spritzing, praying, sacrificing goats to the gods will keep my hair soft beyond a couple of hours.
> 
> That's just the way it is.
> 
> ...


----------



## SweetCaramel1 (Sep 24, 2007)

shorthairforever said:


> Honestly, it looks more like 3c/4a


 
i would have never thought 3c could be that course.


----------



## sowhut (Sep 24, 2007)

i say im 4a/4b because i just *think* that i am. i really have no clue. and i went natural briefly a couple of years ago and still have no clue. Both of my parents are definitely in the 3 family but my hair does NOT look like theirs IMO.


----------



## mscocoface (Sep 24, 2007)

harrison said:


> MSCOCO.. I am in your boat too...
> I have learned so much about my hair over the last year. Since I have actively tried to maintain it without chemicals, locs, or braids. All were quick fixes to dealing with thick course hair. At least for me it was.
> 
> When my hair was relaxed bone straight it was still thick. People always thought it was a weave or wig or something.
> ...



*Ain't that the truth!  This texture ain't no joke, it will turn on you in a hot minute and give mad attitude like you stole money from it!***
*
Bless all of you in the 4B category and hang in there! 

This thread has made my day I am over here crying!***


----------



## chicacanella (Sep 24, 2007)

frochoice said:


> All I have to say is THANK GOD FOR THIS POST. As a recovering lurker I've had this problem a lot. It may seem trivial but it is especially important when it comes to product reviews. Amen to the poster who said 4B HAS NO CURL. Yet time and time again there is a new post of a 4b hair with curl definition with product X. Pseudo-4b'ers have cost me a lot of money dangit! (Sorry need someone to blame for my PJismgrin.
> 
> Some of this comes from the fact that we have all been called 'nappy' or kinky so some assume that we all must have the same coarse, wiry 90% shrinking 4b mat. I've also seen websites describing hair types being very misleading so that it appears their product works for all hair types.
> 
> ...


 

*I believe I saw Erykah's hair before and she is somewhere a 4a/3c. Beyonce is definitely a 3c.*

*I think there are probably some 4bs that can do wash and gos with the right products. You wouldn't believe how far this goes, having a moisturizing regimine when let all your curls fall out of place or rather not be as tight.*


----------



## Proudpiscean (Sep 24, 2007)

Okay, this thread has been pure comedy!


----------



## cmw45 (Sep 24, 2007)

Girl, I have been thinking the SAME thing. I'm mostly 4a with some 4b in my opinion at the top and 3c around the edges. I am always seeing LHCFers claim 4a/4b and I am like, there is now damn way!...some of these ladies (with beautiful hair mind you) are 3b/3c/4a at the most. I mean I see some ladies claim 4a and I'm like, really? Hey, to each his own...I personally think that people claim higher hair #s because a greater number of people tend to listen to them.


----------



## localhost (Sep 24, 2007)

cmw45 said:


> Girl, I have been thinking the SAME thing. I'm mostly 4a with some 4b in my opinion at the top and 3c around the edges. I am always seeing LHCFers claim 4a/4b and I am like, there is now damn way!...some of these ladies (with beautiful hair mind you) are 3b/3c/4a at the most. I mean I see some ladies claim 4a and I'm like, really? Hey, to each his own...I personally think that people claim higher hair #s because a greater number of people tend to listen to them.



I know, right!  I get all excited when I see progress pics in the thread, a 4a/4b with nice length, shine, thickness, etc.  Get to the Fotki album and I'm like, "hold up!  hold up!  She has mango butter waves.  I ain't neva eva eva had mango butter waves, and lawd knows I've tried."    

I guess some folks think their 3c/4a stuff is unruly.  They have no clue...


----------



## cmw45 (Sep 24, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> I know, right! I get all excited when I see progress pics in the thread, a 4a/4b with nice length, shine, thickness, etc. Get to the Fotki album and I'm like, "hold up! hold up! She has mango butter waves. I ain't neva eva eva had mango butter waves, and lawd knows I've tried."
> 
> I guess some folks think their 3c/4a stuff is unruly. They have no clue...


 
DITTO to the whole thing. I know I look at siggys and get excited when I see a 4a/4b APL or longer and then I get to fotki.com and I'm like, naw man, naw...but it's still beautiful hair so I still check it out.


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 24, 2007)

Hi all! Words from the Newbie 

This is what I think. I agree with the above poster, there is ALOT of mislabeling of textures of hair on this board. And there may also be a lack of necessary categories as well. I really believe that alot of us don't really know what our hair texture is. We are just trying to fit our hair in the available catagories. 

I'll just put it out there; 4b and 4a, to a certain extent, is the hair that most people would called back in the day; nappy or "bad" hair. But now today we call it; kinky, coily, wooly or whatever new PC term you want to call it. But here's the deal. If you have to have a relaxer, hot comb, or perm to get your hair straight, then you have the courser hair or the 4 Group texture. Now some people have combo hair. If you do, that's fine. I have combo hair to, but it's a weird combo and I won't put it on this board because you wouldn't believe me if I told you  But if you have the combo hair, that's fine.

But if you have hair that doesn't need a relaxer, or have looser waves, looser curls, etc. Then chances are you might not be in the 4 Group as you think. Or maybe you have some combo textures going on.

But yeah that's an interesting "peeve" of mine on this board as well. And I've been lurking and reading this board for a good 2 years so I know it when I see it


----------



## seraphinelle (Sep 24, 2007)

Wow, this thread is hilarious.

I thought this too!! I have spent bare money after asking what people use in their hair to get that supposed 4B shine!!

Man.

I'm a proper 4B

Y'all ain't seen a 4B until you've seen MY hair.


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

seraphinelle said:


> Wow, this thread is hilarious.
> 
> I thought this too!! I have spent bare money after asking what people use in their hair to get that supposed 4B shine!!
> 
> ...


 
I think I'm gonna make up my own group 

Because my hair don't fall into any of the categories that is on this board. And these categories are based off of that Andre guy. Forget his last name


----------



## frochoice (Sep 25, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> I know, right! I get all excited when I see progress pics in the thread, a 4a/4b with nice length, shine, thickness, etc. Get to the Fotki album and I'm like, "hold up! hold up! She has *mango butter waves*. I ain't neva eva eva had mango butter waves, and lawd knows I've tried."
> 
> I guess some folks think their 3c/4a stuff is unruly. They have no clue...


 
mango butter waves!ROFL on that one.

hmm...making me hungry...


----------



## *Happily Me* (Sep 25, 2007)

natieya said:


> Hi DSylla!  This is exactly how my hair looked as a young girl!  You have gorgeous skin by the way!


 
Thanks Natieya and Cocoberry


----------



## facets (Sep 25, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> :buttkick:
> 
> we want "no child left behind"



 too late for me I guess. Rats, I've failed Hairboards 101.

I know I'm a 4 *something* tho'.


----------



## Mortons (Sep 25, 2007)

SweetPea said:


> I know, right!  I get all excited when I see progress pics in the thread, a 4a/4b with nice length, shine, thickness, etc.  Get to the Fotki album and I'm like, "hold up!  hold up!  She has mango butter waves.  I ain't neva eva eva had mango butter waves, and lawd knows I've tried."
> 
> I guess some folks think their 3c/4a stuff is unruly.  They have no clue...



I keep laughing over this up in the computer lab 

I need to go to bed...


----------



## Kookie (Sep 25, 2007)

AvaSpeaks said:


> I think I'm gonna make up my own group
> 
> Because my hair don't fall into any of the categories that is on this board. And these categories are based off of that Andre guy. Forget his last name


 
Shucks!  I don't know what my hair type is either???? 
It coils and all....but at the same time, I can soooooo relate to all the stories on here about 4b hair as well.  I CANNOT get my hair to lay down with some mango butter.....  Shoot--I can't even get my hair to lay down with gel!  (still working on it tho).  My hair rises and grows out---just like the best of them.....

Water can hit my hair and take forever for it to actually soak into my hair.....

Someone even told me that by the looks of it, my hair resembled possibly 3C hair---but was probably 4a/4b to the heart.  WTF!!!???? erplexed


----------



## jade998 (Sep 25, 2007)

Damn Ladies you are feeling me 100%. I was natural and my hair couldn't hold a curl for it's life. I have wasted lots of money on products that I thought would work for me. I shingled till I couldn't shingle no more, just had product overload. I could only do twist outs and once humidity hit, it was over, it went straight into a fro.

I am now texlaxed and I am still yet to experience slip, and unless I overprocess my hair I cant just wash and go and expect my hair to stay straight, there is still a very long process after washing and conditioning. Nowadays, I wash, put in one big braid and airdry and put up in a bun. I know that slick hair can only come with loads of heat and I dont want to use all that heat. 

Here is my natural hair - Needed to band it so I could detangle when it dried






And here it is texlaxed *WET*. My hair does not dry like this





And when it is dry - Notice the shrinkage and straight up cottony look - No shine and no soft coils





No waves in sight, No matter how much gel, mango butter, smooth and shine, aloe vera gel etc I put, nothing is ever going to happen. But I am cool with my hair. I now have a new hair idol in Dsylla. That is the lenght I am looking for.


----------



## Bublin (Sep 25, 2007)

Mmmm - you guys have me thinking.

When i apply products to my hair whilst wet i have very defined (and lots of) spirals but the shrinkage is crazy and so is the tangles. It looks like 3c.

When i comb, brush and then blow dry is looks like a 4a hair type.

After a simple towel dry, where i just wrap my hair in a towel it still has clear but stretched waves.

I have very thin strands but so so much hair strands that make my hair appear thick.

Looking at my avatar can anyone tell me what my hair type is? This may help in the way i care for it.


----------



## jade998 (Sep 25, 2007)

I think you are what you siggy says -  3c/4a


----------



## Kawaii1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Yeah for a minute I was thinking everyone was girls with that curly stuff. I am a "4c" . Ladies if you don't know, they are talking about afro hair. Like the 60 &70's afro's. That is "4b" not the hair like Joan from girlfriends or Halle Berry.


----------



## kally (Sep 25, 2007)

I am glad to come across this thread. I too am a 4a/b who tryid to live the life of a 3a/b and wondering what I was doing wrong. 

This thread had lighten my day.


----------



## localhost (Sep 25, 2007)

jade998 said:


> I think you are what you siggy says - 3c/4a


 
I agree; Looks like 3c/4a to me


----------



## frochoice (Sep 25, 2007)

Kookie said:


> Shucks! I don't know what my hair type is either????
> It coils and all....but at the same time, I can soooooo relate to all the stories on here about 4b hair as well. I CANNOT get my hair to lay down with some mango butter..... Shoot--I can't even get my hair to lay down with gel! (still working on it tho). My hair rises and grows out---just like the best of them.....
> 
> Water can hit my hair and take forever for it to actually soak into my hair.....
> ...


 
I agree - your hair looks like 3C

like your pictures though


----------



## dicapr (Sep 25, 2007)

I am 4a/4b, but I have fine hair.  Actually, my 4b sections are easier to comb thru than my tightly coiled 4a sections.  To me, many 4b issues are attributed to thickness, not texture. I was also able to stretch 8-12 weeks without too much trouble.  My hair was big (which I like) but it could still be cute. After I learned about spraying my roots with a thin conditioner before combing, I also had little to no  breakage.  I am also able to blow dry my hair on medium and flat iron on 300 and get my hair straight, and I am natural.  Thickness has just as much to do with unruley hair as texture.  Some of you ladies have the thickest hair I have ever seen, which I wish I had. But I guess thin hair has spared me some other issues.


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

Kawaii1 said:


> Yeah for a minute I was thinking everyone was girls with that curly stuff. I am a "4c" . Ladies if you don't know, they are talking about afro hair. Like the 60 &70's afro's. That is "4b" not the hair like Joan from girlfriends or Halle Berry.


 
Exactly! Hair that is in the 4 Group is Afro hair. It's the kind of hair that you can make Afros with and it needed chemicals or intense heat like a pressing comb to make it straight.

If you have 4b or 4c hair, most likely (unless you want to be natural), you got it relaxed or something. 4a hair may be a little more softer, but it's still Afro-textured.

That's why I think that there needs to be more categories, at least for Afro hair because of lot of us come in a range of textures and some of us think we got 3b or 3c hair mixed in with some 4a and there may need to be a 3d maybe have true Afro hair in the 5 range. Because the 3 group hair usually requires no relaxers or anything chemical to straighten their hair. Maybe just a blow dryer or a flat-iron, that's it.


----------



## glamazon386 (Sep 25, 2007)

Bublin said:


> Mmmm - you guys have me thinking.
> 
> When i apply products to my hair whilst wet i have very defined (and lots of) spirals but the shrinkage is crazy and so is the tangles. It looks like 3c.
> 
> ...



Your hair looks like mines. I'd say 3c/4a. You have to type on airdried unmanipulated hair with no products.


----------



## glamazon386 (Sep 25, 2007)

AvaSpeaks said:


> *Because the 3 group hair usually requires no relaxers or anything chemical to straighten their hair. Maybe just a blow dryer or a flat-iron, that's it*.



While that is true for the most part, there are still some type 3's who were relaxed. There have been plenty on this board, like SilverGirl for instance. The majority of the women in my mom's family are in the 3 range with relaxers mainly to thin the bulk of the hair out. And I can blowdry my hair straight and flat iron it with no problem but my mama still put a relaxer on these naps.

Also as far as the 3d goes, we have to remember that 3c was in fact added for that very reason as a go between. There was only 3b and 4a before so I think that's why there's a lot of confusion and overlap in that section of the hair types.


----------



## maleucia (Sep 25, 2007)

I think she means that type 3 people can get a "fresh relaxer" look without needing to use a relaxer by just blow-drying or flat-ironing. With type 4 that may look good only right after if it's even achievable.

I've also read on here that people get better results flat-ironing with little to no product. I try that and I get a texlaxed look

Back to grease for my next press. Thank you for letting me know grease is not such a bad word around these parts!


----------



## Energee (Sep 25, 2007)

This has confused me in the past also and still does.  I always have said that I am a 4b because that's just what I thought most AA people were....lol..but I've been told by different stylist and people that I am not a 4b and am more of a 4a and in some places a 3c. Like most stylist will only use a 'mild' relaxer in my hair because they will say that my hair doesn't need a 'strong' relaxer . However, the mild relaxer only gives me 'texlaxed' hair (WHICH IS WHAT AI PREFER actually).  It just loosens up my curls and waves and doesn't give my bone straight hair. My hair isn't difficult to relax (the relaxer doesn't have to sit in my hair long for it to take). I do have a definite curl, wave pattern to my natural hair and my ng gets thick but it's never really too tough to deal with but I still always thought I was a 4b.  I now say I am 4a but I still don't really know....LOL.


----------



## beana (Sep 25, 2007)

loving this thread!!! I'm a straight up 4a, a small patch of 4b at the crown and a small 3b patch (family birthmark) at the nape... 

My hair is definitely 4a tho. If i was natural i could probably get a  bit of curl definition with a wash n go, but not much.


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

maleucia said:


> I think she means that type 3 people can get a "fresh relaxer" look without needing to use a relaxer by just blow-drying or flat-ironing. With type 4 that may look good only right after if it's even achievable.
> 
> I've also read on here that people get better results flat-ironing with little to no product. I try that and I get a texlaxed look
> 
> Back to grease for my next press. Thank you for letting me know grease is not such a bad word around these parts!


 
This is exactly what I mean. True 3 Group hair, you don't need a relaxer to straighten it out. Regardless of how thick it is. Because they hair may be thick but the type of hair is "fine". Fine hair doesn't need to be straighten chemically. Fine hair will straighten out on it's own.

Now you can hair straight hair, but the hair can be thick. That's where the confusion is coming in, some of us have "medium" texture hair. And it's also thick, but not course, hence some of us saying we are in the 3 Group. 

Think of it this way. We know how fine and straight hair looks. And then there is fine and curly hair. Usually this is with White people. But then some people can have fine and medium hair, like Asians. And then some of us can have thick hair and course hair. That's what people would call the "bad" hair or nappy hair. 

That's why I said that there needs to be either more categories in the 3 group or add the 5 Group for Afro-textured hair and then maybe the 4 Group can be the combo group


----------



## KhandiB (Sep 25, 2007)

Thats what they told me 



hothair said:


> Hey! You my hair twin? That's what my hair looks like but all natural, cool ok so I AM 4a hmm...


----------



## SweetCaramel1 (Sep 25, 2007)

cmw45 said:


> Girl, I have been thinking the SAME thing. I'm mostly 4a with some 4b in my opinion at the top and 3c around the edges. I am always seeing LHCFers claim 4a/4b and I am like, there is now damn way!...some of these ladies (with beautiful hair mind you) are 3b/3c/4a at the most. *I mean I see some ladies claim 4a and I'm like, really? Hey, to each his own...I personally think that people claim higher hair #s because a greater number of people tend to listen to them*.


 
i think it's totally opposite. in the past there were numerous threads were people would get "told" for claiming type 3 anything hair. a thread was started about one member who claimed 3 something and everyone thought she was a 4, and accused her of stating her relaxed hair was her new growth. so i don't people are quick to claim 3 anything. personally, i believed loose curls were 3 and tight coils were 4 and 4b is cotton. 

i see the same thing were people claim 3c and it looks 4b to me. bottom line is you have to find products that work for you.  having the same hair type does not guarantee your satisfaction or the same results


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

Personally, I'm making up my own hair category, because I really don't fit in with any of the hair groups and my hair is so not 1a. So I "declare" my hair 6a/6b


----------



## HoneyA (Sep 25, 2007)

After reading some of the comments on this great thread and seeing the pics, I think I may have been slightly wrong about my hair type tooerplexed. I think its 3c/4a. hmmm...


----------



## Twisties (Sep 25, 2007)

Tenny said:


> I have 4 hair (4B for argument sake) but it's thin, it appears thick if I comb it out but ME comb out,
> 
> Having thin 4b hair adds a whole nother problem to the equation because it's already delicate and breaks at the drop of a hat. But when it's fine, it's even more delicate.
> 
> ...


 
It's a process to learn this about grease!  When I first started in on proper haircare, all I could read and hear was no grease, no grease and I think I preached it myself at one point.  But my hair said, *Girl you better grease me down and I will act right.  I did it and been happy ever since.  *

*We have to merge the old school info. with the new school info. to get it right.*

My hair looks just like yours in your siggy.  

I love this thread.


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

HoneyA said:


> After reading some of the comments on this great thread and seeing the pics, I think I may have been slightly wrong about my hair type tooerplexed. I think its 3c/4a. hmmm...


 
Maybe. Go to a hair salon and see what they tell you. Or maybe an Aveda client.

Go to a White one and a Black one. Betcha they give you two different answers.


----------



## cocoberry10 (Sep 25, 2007)

AvaSpeaks said:


> Exactly! Hair that is in the 4 Group is Afro hair. It's the kind of hair that you can make Afros with and it needed chemicals or intense heat like a pressing comb to make it straight.
> 
> If you have 4b or 4c hair, most likely (unless you want to be natural), you got it relaxed or something. 4a hair may be a little more softer, but it's still Afro-textured.
> 
> That's why I think that there needs to be more categories, at least for Afro hair because of lot of us come in a range of textures and some of us think we got 3b or 3c hair mixed in with some 4a and there may need to be a 3d maybe have true Afro hair in the 5 range. Because the 3 group hair usually requires no relaxers or anything chemical to straighten their hair. Maybe just a blow dryer or a flat-iron, that's it.



I totally agree with this, and I look forward to a revised hair typing system.  I think this would help a lot of true 4b’s find products that actually work for them.  I even find some 4a’s can use the same products that type 3’s can use and achieve hair goals, whereas a true 4b cannot often really find produts that work as well.


----------



## secretdiamond (Sep 25, 2007)

Just came back again to say THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD!

I thought for so long I was the only one with true 4b hair and the difference btwn the way my hair responds and everyone else on this board. I'd start a thread from frustration, but once again, it'll seem like I was doing something so wrong and no one else could relate.

I hate having to spend hours washing and detangling and hearing snaps and pops no matter how slowly I go.  But I still love my hair... it's just a part of me.

4B UNITE!!!!


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

cocoberry10 said:


> I totally agree with this, and I look forward to a revised hair typing system. I think this would help a lot of true 4b’s find products that actually work for them. I even find some 4a’s can use the same products that type 3’s can use and achieve hair goals, whereas a true 4b cannot often really find produts that work as well.


 
Exactly! I mean I really think there should be more extended categories or again, put the Afro-textured hair in a 5 Group. And then those "3c/4a" can be pushed in the first category for a new 4 Group.

Because I am not trying to hate but if we really had all these 3b/4a and 3c/4a types, then why do most Black women have relaxers then? My natural hair is thick too, but I don't need a relaxer.

So I think that some us need another category. Because if your hair is straight on the sides and back, the most problems areas that make sistas get a relaxer or pressed hair, regardless of how thick it is, what would you need the relaxer for?


----------



## mscocoface (Sep 25, 2007)

Well, not that I want to add anymore confusion about the hair typing, but there is a newer system called LOIS here is the site.  

http://www.ourhair.net/content/view/29/40/

It gives a more defined meaning of your hair type particularly if you have multiple textures.  I placed this on another thread but felt the need to add it here.

Based on the definitions I am considered small amount of L with mainly O with cottony and spongy hair strands.

*WARNING:  Reading this article could take some of you over the edge with complete and total confusion!*


----------



## facets (Sep 25, 2007)

mscocoface said:


> Well, not that I want to add anymore confusion about the hair typing, but there is a newer system called LOIS here is the site.
> 
> http://www.ourhair.net/content/view/29/40/
> 
> ...



so i'd be 'daughter O'?

wow, what about spongy coils?..lol.

after reading some old threads and links i guess i'm a dense 4a? i have a lot of hairs(re: sq footage...ok, my heads not quite that big) but the individual hairs coil.

How does this change products/regimen? So 4b's can use heavier oils, grease? Anything else?


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

I think my hair texture is either:

1a/2a/3a/4a 

1a/2a/4a 

or 

1a/3a/4a 

All this is so confusing


----------



## ccd (Sep 25, 2007)

This thread is hilarious!


----------



## glamazon386 (Sep 25, 2007)

AvaSpeaks said:


> This is exactly what I mean. True 3 Group hair, you don't need a relaxer to straighten it out. Regardless of how thick it is. Because they hair may be thick but the type of hair is "fine". Fine hair doesn't need to be straighten chemically. Fine hair will straighten out on it's own.
> 
> Now you can hair straight hair, but the hair can be thick. That's where the confusion is coming in, some of us have "medium" texture hair. And it's also thick, but not course, hence some of us saying we are in the 3 Group.
> 
> ...



For the record my hair gets relaxer straight with a blowdrier and a flat iron. I think it's more the technique and not somebody's texture/thickness/etc. I don't even think it's the products. But all hair types can be coarse. There are plenty of white people or Asian people with coarse hair.  If there weren't then there wouldn't be the need for things like Japanese straightening systems to thin them out. They can have fine, medium, and thick hair just like we can. They all don't fit into one category. I am a type 4 but my hair is not coarse at all. And coarse and thick are not the same thing. One is texture, the other is not. You also have to take into account density.


----------



## Kayluv (Sep 25, 2007)

I don't know what my hair type is...I've never know what my hair type is...and at this point I am not too interested.  Just to damn confusing.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it!


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

bmoreflyygirl said:


> For the record my hair gets relaxer straight with a blowdrier and a flat iron. I think it's more the technique and not somebody's texture/thickness/etc. I don't even think it's the products. But all hair types can be coarse. There are plenty of white people or Asian people with coarse hair. If there weren't then there wouldn't be the need for things like Japanese straightening systems to thin them out. They can have fine, medium, and thick hair just like we can. They all don't fit into one category. I am a type 4 but my hair is not coarse at all. And coarse and thick are not the same thing. One is texture, the other is not. You also have to take into account density.


 
When I say coarse, I mean the coarse hair that Afro texture hair has. The type of coarse hair that some Asians or Whites have is not the same coarse hair that most black people have. If it was, then Black women would not get relaxers. 

Plus Asians, some Asians straighten their hair to get a bone-straight look but their hair is still straight. They just want it straighter or flat. 

I also mention that. Your hair could be coarse and thick or coarse and medium. Again that's why I said that we need more categories. If you can get your hair straight with a blow-dryer, but it's still considered a type 4? Then we need some new categories. I won't say people are mislabeling their hair but I mean if we want to go by what the guide says then Type 4 hair would not get relaxer-straight without a relaxer, but Type 3 hair would. There are just certain properties that make 4 Type hair what it is. Just like Type 1 hair will not be coarse at all. Or it won't be curly.


----------



## Leshia (Sep 25, 2007)

Twisties said:


> ETA: i had to put the wig on in the first place because i tried to do a wash and go (as someone said - iturned out to be *wash and no*) .


 
Ahahahahahahahahahaahahaha *snort* *CHOKECHOKE* that was good...I picture you saying that like Austin Powers and screaming "No"! really loud...*walks away still laughing*


----------



## facets (Sep 25, 2007)

Leshia said:


> Ahahahahahahahahahaahahaha *snort* *CHOKECHOKE* that was good...I picture you *saying that like Austin Powers and screaming "No"!* really loud...*walks away still laughing*


----------



## glamazon386 (Sep 25, 2007)

AvaSpeaks said:


> When I say coarse, I mean the coarse hair that Afro texture hair has. The type of coarse hair that some Asians or Whites have is not the same coarse hair that most black people have. *If it was, then Black women would not get relaxers. *
> 
> Plus Asians, some Asians straighten their hair to get a bone-straight look but their hair is still straight. They just want it straighter or flat.
> 
> I also mention that. Your hair could be coarse and thick or coarse and medium. Again that's why I said that we need more categories. If you can get your hair straight with a blow-dryer, but it's still considered a type 4? Then we need some new categories. I won't say people are mislabeling their hair but I mean if we want to go by what the guide says then Type 4 hair would not get relaxer-straight without a relaxer, but Type 3 hair would. There are just certain properties that make 4 Type hair what it is. Just like Type 1 hair will not be coarse at all. Or it won't be curly.




So how do you explain people with natural hair who get their hair pressed with a hot comb? People were doing that before relaxers. Hard Presse with a hot comb can get hair as straight as a relaxer if the person knows that they're doing. Are you saying type 4 hair can never look relaxer straight without a relaxer? Because that's what it sounds like to me and that is not true. I've seen it done before on the nappiest of naps. I mean a true 4b. It's all about skills and techniques. Not so much the texture. I've seen it done by my hairdresser with a blowdrier and a flat iron. By the Dominicans with rollers and a blowdrier and roundbrush and by other stylist with a marcel stove and a flat iron. It can be done.

And to the bolded, nobody absolutely NEEDS a relaxer. It is a CHOICE. Now sometimes it may have been your mama's choice and not yours when you were a child, but still a choice nonetheless. I also think that a lot of times people relax their hair (or their childrens) because they don't know what else to do with it. That and because that was all they knew. It was the norm for black women's hair. Everybody straightened their hair, so that's what they did. That's why many of us who are just getting acquainted with our natural hair as adults have to go through a whole learning process. We don't know what to do or may not even remember what our natural hair looked like as a child.


----------



## maleucia (Sep 25, 2007)

mscocoface said:


> Well, not that I want to add anymore confusion about the hair typing, but there is a newer system called LOIS here is the site.
> 
> http://www.ourhair.net/content/view/29/40/



I like this system much better. I can simply *look *at an individual strand of shed hair and see what it does. I'm a mixture of mostly O and some S.


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

bmoreflyygirl said:


> So how do you explain people with natural hair who get their hair pressed with a hot comb? People were doing that before relaxers. Hard Presse with a hot comb can get hair as straight as a relaxer if the person knows that they're doing. Are you saying type 4 hair can never look relaxer straight without a relaxer? Because that's what it sounds like to me and that is not true. I've seen it done before on the nappiest of naps. I mean a true 4b. It's all about skills and techniques. Not so much the texture. I've seen it done by my hairdresser with a blowdrier and a flat iron. By the Dominicans with rollers and a blowdrier and roundbrush and by other stylist with a marcel stove and a flat iron. It can be done.
> 
> And to the bolded, nobody absolutely NEEDS a relaxer. It is a CHOICE. Now sometimes it may have been your mama's choice and not yours when you were a child, but still a choice nonetheless. I also think that a lot of times people relax their hair (or their childrens) because they don't know what else to do with it. That and because that was all they knew. It was the norm for black women's hair. Everybody straightened their hair, so that's what they did.


 
I don't want to start a debate. So this is the last I will say on this. 

I did say in my original post or maybe the post after it, or another thread, that Type 4 hair gets straight with either relaxers or by intense heat, like a pressing comb. The blow-dryer on true type 4 hair would not be enough heat to get the hair straight or bone-straight. As far as the pressing comb, yes it can get hair straight but after awhile the hair goes back to it's original state. But 3 Type can get straight with just blow-drying or flat-iron alone, hair that's in the 3 Group and above.

As far as the relaxers and Black women. Regardless of who started it, if our hair was naturally straight then we would not continue to get them, overall I mean. Yes, some women go natural but for the most part, AA women still get relaxers, which makes their hair straight. If you have a Type 3 hair texture, your wouldn't need that chemical to straighten your hair, you could just blow dry it out.

Again, again, again. That's why I said that there needs to be more categories in both the 3 Group and 4 Group. If you have 4 hair, then you do. Looking at your hair, in the pic, I wouldn't say your hair is Type 4. I would say your in the 3 Group but maybe a 3d or 3e if there was such a category, but since there isn't, then the closest I would say would be 3c/4a? I don't know, that's just with working with the choices I have.

Again, I don't want a debate. I was just merely saying there needs to be more categories.


----------



## Twisties (Sep 25, 2007)

Leshia said:


> Ahahahahahahahahahaahahaha *snort* *CHOKECHOKE* that was good...I picture you saying that like Austin Powers and screaming "No"! really loud...*walks away still laughing*


 
LOL, i have said many things while working all of this out on my journey. 

i wanna know if any 4b has successfully (TRUTHFULLY) *plopped* if you recall that term.  there was this plopping craze going on a while back where you wet the hair, put gel in it and then u put a towel or t-shirt on it to get the curls to pop.  anyoneerplexed?  my attempt turned into another cone head wig day.


----------



## Twisties (Sep 25, 2007)

Tenny said:


> that was by far my best twist out EVAH  I need to check out some albums
> Cause on I'm on, GREASE ME DOWN
> 
> It's grease I say, I says it's grease.
> ...


 
No you didn't put it to a tune - Wipe me down!

Yes your twist out is so cute.  I agree too about the moisture sealing and protectiving styling.  I am learning so much too.  Like Sareca's oil wash thread.  Back in the day, I used to do that as a hot oil treatment on dry hair and it didn't work, but I have tried her version 2x's so far on wet hair and then conditioner and I think I like the resutls.  We are learning all the time!


----------



## localhost (Sep 25, 2007)

Twisties said:


> LOL, i have said many things while working all of this out on my journey.
> 
> i wanna know if any 4b has successfully (TRUTHFULLY) *plopped* if you recall that term. there was this plopping craze going on a while back where you wet the hair, put gel in it and then u put a towel or t-shirt on it to get the curls to pop. anyoneerplexed? my attempt turned into another cone head wig day.


 
 LOL!


----------



## glamazon386 (Sep 25, 2007)

AvaSpeaks said:


> I don't want to start a debate. So this is the last I will say on this.
> 
> I did say in my original post or maybe the post after it, or another thread, that Type 4 hair gets straight with either relaxers or by intense heat, like a pressing comb. The blow-dryer on true type 4 hair would not be enough heat to get the hair straight or bone-straight. As far as the pressing comb, yes it can get hair straight but after awhile the hair goes back to it's original state. But 3 Type can get straight with just blow-drying or flat-iron alone, hair that's in the 3 Group and above.
> 
> ...




So how do you explain Type 3's with relaxers? And does their hair not go back to it original state after blowdrying and flat ironing? My whole point wasn't that you were wrong, it's just what you're saying is not true for every type 4 or type 3 or type whatever for that matter. That's all. Everything does not work for everybody or does not hold true for everybody. That's just like all of the products and regimens here on this board. Just because somebody has the same hair type as I do on this board, doesn't mean that all the products they use will work on my hair. Or vice versa. I found that out the hard way with the MJ Curly Pudding. My hair did not like it. Same thing with techniques and methods. I don't baggy, seal, pre-poo, etc or do any of that other stuff. Didn't work for me.

I still think for a lot of people relax because they don't know how to deal with highly textured hair whether it is kinks or curls. So the fix all for a lot of people is a relaxer no matter what the hair type or texture. Also, if you are going to wear your hair straight most of the time, why go through the trouble of blow drying in flat ironing when you can relax and just wash it and go on about your business. Also you won't have to worry about possible heat damage everytime you go to straighten. That was some of my relatives reason for relaxing outside of thinning out the bulk. My grandmother said it was a pain because the waves would come back in if you stayed in the shower too long, got caught outside, etc. They would mess up your hairstyle so a relaxer was easier.

I think people just need to take the typing system with a grain of salt. We all agree that it sucks, and have agreed upon that since it first popped up years ago. I don't think more categories would fix it, I think it would just lead to more confusion. People should use the types as a guideline and that's it. Also a lot of people are trying to type new growth with relaxed hair which can make it hard to tell. My new growth looked like waves until I got about 3 or 4 inches of it but I knew my hair certainly wasn't a type 2.


----------



## pattycake0701 (Sep 25, 2007)

For what it's worth...I consider myself 4a.  My hair is very thick and coarse.  I have a ton of strands on my head and the actual strand is thick.  My hair grows in a corkscrew pattern, a very tight corkscrew pattern.  The corkscrews are about the size of pensprings...coffee stirrers...toothpicks...whatever.  I'd rather be a 4b as I don't see a Z pattern tangling up like a corkscrew...I could be wrong though

When reading product reviews and whatnot, I am more interested in the poster's strand width than pattern or tightness.  I feel as it takes more to penetrate my thick strands than would someone with fine hair.  Same with straightening techniques.


----------



## Energee (Sep 25, 2007)

Black people with true 4 hair can get a relaxed look without a relaxer...Hot combs, blowouts, etc.  I've seen it done. The only thing is that there will be a lot of damage from this type of manipulation on a regular basis.  Of course, we know the hair will likely revert with humidity, sweat or any type of dampness (rain..etc) but it can be done and has been done.

Most people don't want to deal with hot combs or blowouts on a regular basis and want something more permanent...hence, the relaxer.

Also, I know many 3's with relaxers and their hair reverts too. If their hair was so easily straightened and was able to stay straight they would not relax. Just like others with naturally curly hair will revert when they try to straighten their hair with blowouts etc....


----------



## SweetCaramel1 (Sep 25, 2007)

bmoreflyygirl said:


> I think people just need to take the typing system with a grain of salt. We all agree that it sucks, and have agreed upon that since it first popped up years ago. *I don't think more categories would fix it, I think it would just lead to more confusion. *People should use the types as a guideline and that's it. Also a lot of people are trying to type new growth with relaxed hair which can make it hard to tell. My new growth looked like waves until I got about 3 or 4 inches of it but I knew my hair certainly wasn't a type 2.


 
i agree.  it's all subjective.  to me your hair is 4a, to another member 3c, another 4b.  it's just another way to divide us


----------



## meaganita (Sep 25, 2007)

facets said:


> ok, now i'm confused too...*what if they're small coils that only come up when the hair is wet and/or in conditioner... A or B?*
> 
> Does this make a difference in care/regimen?
> 
> ...


In that case I'd say that's 4a. In my experience, 4b does not form defined curls with water or product. The 4b curl pattern isn't uniform or consistent enough to submit to water or product as to produce clearly defined curls/coils.


----------



## facets (Sep 25, 2007)

meaganita said:


> In that case I'd say that's 4a. In my experience, 4b does not form defined curls with water or product. The 4b curl pattern isn't uniform or consistent enough to submit to water or product as to produce clearly defined curls/coils.



Thanks for answering Meaganita...So, do 4As need to do anything different as far as regimen, product compared to 4Bs?


----------



## meaganita (Sep 25, 2007)

facets said:


> Thanks for answering Meaganita...So, do 4As need to do anything different as far as regimen, product compared to 4Bs?


No problem Facets!  Mmmmm....I listen to advice of 4b's because I do have some 4b patches in my head.  But on top of that I figure what works for them might work for me too since our textures are generally the most delicate of all the others.  Of course there are other factors that go into it, such as strand diameter, overall density, condition of the hair, relaxed, natural, etc.  Even hair twins can have completely different results with identical products.  So in the end, I think it still boils down to finding out what does/doesn't work for your hair through trial and error.  But I primarily seek advice and product inspiration from ladies with 4 texture...whether a or b.  ---HTH


----------



## caligirl (Sep 25, 2007)

AvaSpeaks said:


> Because the 3 group hair usually requires no relaxers or anything chemical to straighten their hair. Maybe just a blow dryer or a flat-iron, that's it.



My hair gets straight straight with just a blowdrier and flat iron (see my avatar) and my hair is coarse and nappy.


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

Ladies, ladies. I didn't mean that ALL Type 3 and ALL Type 4's fit into this category. If your a Type 3 and you need relaxers, then fine.

If your a Type 4 and you can get your hair straight without a relaxer then that's fine too. 

I wasn't saying this holds true for all of us. I was really just saying a different viewpoint. 

Back to lurking


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 25, 2007)

Energee said:


> Black people with true 4 hair can get a relaxed look without a relaxer...Hot combs, blowouts, etc. I've seen it done. The only thing is that there will be a lot of damage from this type of manipulation on a regular basis. Of course, we know the hair will likely revert with humidity, sweat or any type of dampness (rain..etc) but it can be done and has been done.
> 
> Most people don't want to deal with hot combs or blowouts on a regular basis and want something more permanent...hence, the relaxer.
> 
> Also, I know many 3's with relaxers and their hair reverts too. If their hair was so easily straightened and was able to stay straight they would not relax. Just like others with naturally curly hair will revert when they try to straighten their hair with blowouts etc....


 
Yes and most of this is what I was trying to say. But I guess it came out totally wrong


----------



## cmw45 (Sep 26, 2007)

pattycake0701 said:


> For what it's worth...I consider myself 4a. My hair is very thick and coarse. I have a ton of strands on my head and the actual strand is thick. My hair grows in a corkscrew pattern, a very tight corkscrew pattern. The corkscrews are about the size of pensprings...coffee stirrers...toothpicks...whatever. *I'd rather be a 4b as I don't see a Z pattern tangling up like a corkscrew...I could be wrong though*
> 
> When reading product reviews and whatnot, I am more interested in the poster's strand width than pattern or tightness. I feel as it takes more to penetrate my thick strands than would someone with fine hair. Same with straightening techniques.


 
I'm a real 4a and I have often thought the same thing...I'm worried that my hair is going to break off from all the tangling.


----------



## *Happily Me* (Sep 26, 2007)

Most of the strands of my hair are very thin and quite fragile.  But I have a whole lot of them


----------



## glamazon386 (Sep 26, 2007)

AvaSpeaks said:


> Ladies, ladies. I didn't mean that ALL Type 3 and ALL Type 4's fit into this category. *If your a Type 3 and you need relaxers, then fine.*
> 
> If your a Type 4 and you can get your hair straight without a relaxer then that's fine too.
> 
> ...



Nobody *needs* a relaxer hun. I'm natural and I'm offended by that comment.


----------



## jade998 (Sep 26, 2007)

bmoreflyygirl said:


> Nobody *needs* a relaxer hun. I'm natural and I'm offended by that comment.



I don't think she meant it in that way. 

Please don't get offended. She think she was trying to clarify that no hair type needs a relaxer more over the other. I think her original comment was taken out of context and I kinda know what she was trying to say but maybe it did not come out the way she meant for it to come out.

The relaxer issue on LHCF is very subjective and I think consensus on the board is about growing healthy hair regardless of how you chose to wear it

P.S you hair is beautiful


----------



## glamazon386 (Sep 26, 2007)

jade998 said:


> I don't think she meant it in that way.
> 
> Please don't get offended. She think she was trying to clarify that no hair type needs a relaxer more over the other. I think her original comment was taken out of context and I kinda know what she was trying to say but maybe it did not come out the way she meant for it to come out.
> 
> ...



Thanks hun!  But I'm still offended for various reasons. As much as we want to think everybody on this board is all for healthy hair regardless of whether it is natural or not, that's simply not always the case and it comes through with the language people use in their posts.


----------



## dany06 (Sep 26, 2007)

Okay I guess that Im apart of the 4b crowd although some strands I guess are 4a. I really dont think any of my hair makes z for real but I dont have define curls or coils. When I first bc'ed I had some coils form after washing but as soon as it dried it turned to frizz. No matter what gel or anything that I use turn my wet coil/curl to dry coils. Now its almost 5 months later and it seems that I have even less of any curl that I had before. I have used a denman brush and that too gives me coils/ curls when wet but as soon as it dries then Im back to my frizzy hair. So I assume that I must be 4b if i average out what type of hair that I have. Do you agree that I would be 4b because I dont have silky hair that forms a head full of massive defined curls?


----------



## est.April1983 (Sep 26, 2007)

I am a true 4b as well. My hair is very coarse when the NG is herere I can bearly part it! my NG looks like a baby fro when I stretch for a long time. The dominican shop that I go to want to relax my hair every four weeks bc of how coarse my hair is but I tell them this is the texture of my hair and constant relaxing wont make it different. They get mad when I show up 10 weeks or 11 weeks postbut oh well. Is it me or is type 4 hair the hardest to hold moisture?


----------



## envybeauty (Sep 26, 2007)

Future MD said:


> I am a true 4b as well. My hair is very coarse when the NG is herere I can bearly part it! my NG looks like a baby fro when I stretch for a long time. The dominican shop that I go to want to relax my hair every four weeks bc of how coarse my hair is but I tell them this is the texture of my hair and constant relaxing wont make it different. They get mad when I show up 10 weeks or 11 weeks postbut oh well. Is it me or *is type 4 hair the hardest to hold moisture*?


 

I think so too!! My 4b is sooooooooooo darn dry!  Eveyone keeps talking about just moisturizing when stretching and everything will be alright.  I'm like are they using water from the River Jordan?  My ish NEVER wants to retain moisture when natural.  Even when wet!


----------



## scarcity21 (Sep 26, 2007)

posting to subscribe...im a true 4B...check out my fotki


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## natieya (Sep 26, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> I think so too!! My 4b is sooooooooooo darn dry! Eveyone keeps talking about just moisturizing when stretching and everything will be alright. I'm like are *they using water from the River Jordan*? My ish NEVER wants to retain moisture when natural. Even when wet!


 
at the bolded statement above!

P.S.--I feel ya. I really do.


----------



## BklynHeart (Sep 26, 2007)

nvybeauty said:


> I think so too!! My 4b is sooooooooooo darn dry! Eveyone keeps talking about just moisturizing when stretching and everything will be alright. *I'm like are they using water from the River Jordan?* My ish NEVER wants to retain moisture when natural. Even when wet!


 
HA!!!!  

Yess, I know exactly what you mean!! I have 4Z hair, and have been wearing braids for most of the transition, because me trying to do braidouts or just leaving it out is a horror show in itself.  It's dry and no matter what I put on it the hair just laughs.  So far, I broke down and put some Always Natural grease on it after washing and taking out most of the water.  That's been helping until I braid it back up.


----------



## pattycake0701 (Sep 26, 2007)

scarcity21 said:


> posting to subscribe...im a true 4B...check out my fotki


 

You know what...I checked out your album and I would consider you a 4a/4b mix.  It looks like you have a z pattern in the front, but a coily texture everywhere else.  Nevertheless (like any of this matters anyways) your hair looks very healthy


----------



## rabs77 (Sep 26, 2007)

bmoreflyygirl said:


> Thanks hun!  But I'm still offended for various reasons. As much as we want to think everybody on this board is all for healthy hair regardless of whether it is natural or not, that's simply not always the case and it comes through with the language people use in their posts.



I doubt AvaSpeaks intended to offend. She is new to the board, not even a month old, a newbie. I know being on this board awhile changes our perceptions on black hair immensely. We learn a lot from this board. I am sure prior to joining LHCF, a lot of people on this board may have believed,* I know I did*, that 4a,b ...etc hair NEEDED a relaxer to look straight. I have a lot of friends who are not members of this board who still believe this. Through exposure to each other we now know what our hair is capable of without a relaxer.We have developed a "culture" on this board where we know what to say, what not to say, etc. She is new and has not yet learnt the LHCF "language". I hope you are still not offended.

*AvaSpeaks...Please don't go back to lurking....You are welcome here*


----------



## ccd (Sep 26, 2007)

rabs77 said:


> I doubt AvaSpeaks intended to offend. She is new to the board, not even a month old, a newbie. I know being on this board awhile changes our perceptions on black hair immensely. We learn a lot from this board. I am sure prior to joining LHCF, a lot of people on this board may have believed,* I know I did*, that 4a,b ...etc hair NEEDED a relaxer to look straight. I have a lot of friends who are not members of this board who still believe this. Through exposure to each other we now know what our hair is capable of without a relaxer.We have developed a "culture" on this board where we know what to say, what not to say, etc. She is new and has not yet learnt the LHCF "language". I hope you are still not offended.
> 
> *AvaSpeaks...Please don't go back to lurking....You are welcome here*


 
RABs......I just wanted to say.....THANKS FOR DOING THIS!!!! I dislike conflict myself and I go from participating and then lurking because it can get "hot" sometimes......Thank for being so thoughtful and trying to bring folks together!!!


----------



## rabs77 (Sep 26, 2007)

ccd said:


> RABs......I just wanted to say.....THANKS FOR DOING THIS!!!! I dislike conflict myself and I go from participating and then lurking because it can get "hot" sometimes......Thank for being so thoughtful and trying to bring folks together!!!



No biggy! It's obvious she's a newbie and meant no harm.


Errrr CCD....:wow: at your hair. All that shine....please share ...what did you do..cos I'm about to do the same!!


----------



## kbfluff (Sep 26, 2007)

I luv this post. I thought I was the only one who felt this way. I consider myself a 4-something. I'm relaxed, however my 12 week stretched NG laughed at my flatiron. I couldn't even attempt to comb thru this stuff without perming the NG first. 
I have to admit that my nape is like a 3 something...all baby hair? Go figure. Isn't it strange how we (black folk) can have a multitude of textures on one head of hair??!!


----------



## ccd (Sep 26, 2007)

rabs77 said:


> No biggy! It's obvious she's a newbie and meant no harm.
> 
> 
> Errrr CCD....:wow: at your hair. All that shine....please share ...what did you do..cos I'm about to do the same!!


 

Ohh thank you!!! I haven't changed my routine much since 05 but this picture was after  washed after a prepoo of Macadamia Nut oil left for about 30 mins)  I roller set and I use Lacio Lacio ( the last bit of it I have) mixed with Pantene Smooth and Silky Milk (my new favorite)  and I added some light oil on top (Easy Look-Whale Sperm /yes it's not a typo) ...this is what made the difference I think. My hair really likes oils but I'm usually lazy to use them regularly...prolly should right.  If you want more info you can PM me or look up my FOM  2005

THANKS AGAIN !!!!


----------



## Energee (Sep 26, 2007)

AvaSpeaks said:


> Yes and most of this is what I was trying to say. But I guess it came out totally wrong



I understood you. It's no biggie.Sometimes it's difficult for someone to fully grasp what you are trying to say on a forum.


----------



## Dearlove (Sep 26, 2007)

AMEN to this thread!!  I don't post often, but had been thinking about making a long post about my experience as a 4z natural who was at a low point in her hair journey, but this thread showed me I am alone.

Why did I buy the Thermasmooth system, dry with a roller set under the hot a$$ dryer, and flat iron at 410 degrees (yes, I know you fry chicken at 350) on a no humidity day and have the lower back revert before I could pass the iron on the last piece up front?  My hair just wasn't having it!!

I have made peace with my hair.  I know I can't use all the advice that is posted (wash n go, my big toe!), but I take inspiration from everyone's quest for healthy hair.


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Sep 27, 2007)

Okay let me clear up something here about my post or posts.

First, thanks to those who wlecome me here, thanks alot. Like I said, I have been reading this site for about 2 years and taking the advice from it. Just last week I decided to join. I've been lurking and reading the posts and using the advice from this board for the past 2 years. I JOINED so I could post. But again, didn't mean to offend anyone about their hair texture or type and my words did come out wrong.

I am all for healthy hair and healthy hair growth, so please don't think that I not. But I did notice that a spin-off thread was made that had various extended ranges of hair types, the same point I was trying to make. So I know that I am not alone in thinking that there needs to be more inclusive categories than the ones that we have. 

So because of that, I will stay and post  

And *bemorefly*, I didn't mean to offend you. But don't think I'm not on here to promote healthy hair just because you didn't understand what I was trying to say in my post. If I said it wrong, then that's on me but don't hold that against me and judge my presence on the boards by that. 

I mean, I haven't even been here a week and I'm already in trouble


----------



## caligirl (Sep 27, 2007)

Dearlove said:


> flat iron at 410 degrees (yes, I know you fry chicken at 350) on a no humidity day and have the lower back revert before I could pass the iron on the last piece up front?



tell it!  tell it! (I use my flat iron at 370!)


----------



## scarcity21 (Sep 27, 2007)

Tenny said:


> hair twin is that YOU???!!!!! after all this time


 

Yes twin ....yay!!!!!


----------



## scarcity21 (Sep 27, 2007)

pattycake0701 said:


> You know what...I checked out your album and I would consider you a 4a/4b mix. It looks like you have a z pattern in the front, but a coily texture everywhere else. Nevertheless (like any of this matters anyways) your hair looks very healthy


 

Oh no patty...i have a quartersize patch in the nape area that looks like 4a but best believe its  z pattern everywhere else
Thanks for the compliment though


----------



## Twisties (Sep 27, 2007)

Dearlove said:


> AMEN to this thread!! I don't post often, but had been thinking about making a long post about my experience as a 4z natural who was at a low point in her hair journey, but this thread showed me I am alone.
> 
> Why did I buy the Thermasmooth system, dry with a roller set under the hot a$$ dryer, and flat iron at 410 degrees (yes, I know you fry chicken at 350) on a no humidity day and have the lower back revert before I could pass the iron on the last piece up front? My hair just wasn't having it!!
> 
> *I have made peace with my hair.* I know I can't use all the advice that is posted (wash n go, my big toe!), but I take inspiration from everyone's quest for healthy hair.


 
we all still cutting up on here. this was hilarious.  i am at peace too.


----------



## cocoberry10 (Sep 27, 2007)

Dearlove said:


> AMEN to this thread!!  I don't post often, but had been thinking about making a long post about my experience as a 4z natural who was at a low point in her hair journey, but this thread showed me I am alone.
> 
> Why did I buy the Thermasmooth system, dry with a roller set under the hot a$$ dryer, and flat iron at 410 degrees (yes, I know you fry chicken at 350) on a no humidity day and have the lower back revert before I could pass the iron on the last piece up front?  My hair just wasn't having it!!
> 
> *I have made peace with my hair.  I know I can't use all the advice that is posted (wash n go, my big toe!), but I take inspiration from everyone's quest for healthy hair*.



:thatsall: I agree


----------



## Lia200805 (Aug 26, 2008)

SweetPea said:


> 4z checking in. Yeah, that's right. 4z. This should be our new catagory on the real.
> 
> 
> You know you're a 4z when:
> ...


 
Oh, I'm crying with laughter - middle of your hair will still be dry...
I don't even have a clue what kind of hair I've got.  All I know is that I have it on my head, it keeps my head warm and it will play ball if I desperately need it to. It's just hair at the end of the day and I'm not sure that I even want to fit into a 'type'. As long as I can get rid of the relaxed ends I've been carrying around for the last 13 months and be able to get curls/kinks without the need of a curling tong, I'll be happy.


----------



## envybeauty (Aug 26, 2008)

i can't believe this thread was bumped....

i still feel the say way today.


----------



## Lia200805 (Aug 26, 2008)

Yeah...I guess I'm a tad bit late and yep, I'm a newbie!


----------



## natural2008 (Aug 26, 2008)

Gilr I hear you.  I am a 4b-z all the way and my hair is dry and cottony, etc.  I also wondered about the women on here who say that their hair is a 4b and they have curls and use this and that product and when I bought the product it did absolutely nothing for my hair.


----------



## Lia200805 (Aug 26, 2008)

I have wondered on occasion if some ladies were purposely claiming a 'type' that was kinkier than theirs (thus confusing the hell out of other ladies what actually thought they WERE a particular hair type) - dunno why a person would do that, but I'm a cynic so I think about this kinda stuff.  Whether or not you are a 3c or a 4b/c with s's, zeds, kinks, coils (I could go on...) it doesn't matter.  I feel quite strongly about this because my aunt is currently battling with cancer and the last of her hair is gone.  I know she doesn't give a hoot about 'types', she just wants to be able to survive it.  If I came to her with foolishness about hair type she'd probably knock me out.  Seriously though, who cares, I know I don't!


----------



## PapillionRouge (Aug 26, 2008)

glamazon386 said:


> Nobody *needs* a relaxer hun. I'm natural and I'm offended by that comment.



I donthink she meant it that way Glam, maybe u're reading way too much into it....


----------



## sylver2 (Aug 26, 2008)

glamazon386 said:


> To my understanding, your idea of 4b is correct. 4b hair does not curl. However, we have to remember that there is variety within each hair type too. All 4a's don't look like my hair, but my hair is still 4a with some 3c. I don't have any 4b hair at all. All people's thickness and density play a factor too. My hair is fine. If it was thicker, I'm sure it would look different.
> 
> Sometimes when people have other types mixed in, it will make their hair look different. Like people with both 4a and 4b. The 4a pieces being mixed in can make the hair look different.
> 
> And also, for people who are relaxed and stretching, their relaxed hair may be weighing down the natural hair so their pattern looks looser.



Great post
hey I never saw this thread.
I am definately a combination of 4a/b.  No curls here.  I remember whn I was natural and bought Black Hair Sophisticate with Michael Michelle on cover.  Inside she had her regimen and how she got her curls.  She said she washed hair, conditioned then took some gel and scrunched and viola!!
ummm welll why did I try this  thinking thats all I needed to do.  gelled buckwheat afro.
didn't learn my lesson when I tried again with Chilli from TLC's hair regimen..took me a minute to realize I um had nappy hair no curls, no waves, not even the little coils some 4a's get.


----------



## sydney100 (Aug 26, 2008)

OMG! I'm late but your hair type definitely describes  mine.  I always roll my eyes at the people who claim to be 4B.  It takes a super strenght relaxer and tons of moisturizer just to put a comb in my hair.  Every time I stretch, I break a comb!!! I have no defined curls unless freshly relaxed.  It's nice to meet other true 4b's.


----------



## Nonpareil (Aug 26, 2008)

I have three textures going on, as do many people.  I'm mostly 4a with some 3c in the nape.  My crown is 100% 4b.


----------



## Kurlee (Aug 26, 2008)

I think people just have a hard time understanding what 4b is. Its a matter of perception. If you have curly hair then you are not 4b. 2-4a are curly hair types and 1abc and 4b are not. I never understood the confusion.


----------



## metro_qt (Aug 26, 2008)

Kurlee said:


> I think people just have a hard time understanding what 4b is. Its a matter of perception. If you have curly hair then you are not 4b. *2-4a are curly hair types and 1abc and 4b are not.* I never understood the confusion.



LOOOOOL...
you just broke it down in one concise sentence.


----------



## YummyC (Aug 27, 2008)

DSylla said:


> I am definitely 4b with a little 4a thrown in  (it's time for me to review that double chin tightener thread )



!!!This is what my hair looks like!!


----------



## hairedity (Aug 27, 2008)

loved said:


> U know u're 4z when:
> 
> u're a LHCF newbie & really believe that you can do an 18 week stretch & when you take the cornrows out from your weave YOUR NG ACTUALLY SPEAKS 2 U & ASKS . . . DID U FORGET HOW I ROLL???
> 
> ...


 

O my gosh, been a member here for a few months and this is absolutely the funniest thread I've read ever!  EVER!


----------



## Blessed_Angel (Aug 27, 2008)

envybeauty said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> So I see plenty of sistas on here saying that they are 4b. In my mind, IMO, 4b hair is very coarse hair. To ME, coarse hair does not have a defined curl or wave pattern. TO ME, 4b hair is very cottony like in that you cannot deterimine any kind of pattern to it when looking at how the hairs loop around. It is not like small pen springs or loose roller waves. AT LEAST MY 4B HAIR DOES NOT!
> ...


 
I understand what you're saying...and I totally understand your frustrations.


----------



## Kurlee (Aug 27, 2008)

metro_qt said:


> LOOOOOL...
> you just broke it down in one concise sentence.


Cha, its so annoying, like its not hard. I see people with hair like kelis talking bout they're 4b, lawd


----------



## kbfluff (Aug 27, 2008)

Kurlee said:


> I think people just have a hard time understanding what 4b is. Its a matter of perception. *If you have curly hair then you are not 4b*. 2-4a are curly hair types and 1abc and 4b are not. I never understood the confusion.


 

EXACTLY!!!!!! Especially the bold! Case Closed.
(Im 4a & b)


----------



## Br*nzeb*mbsh~ll (Aug 27, 2008)

*You know, this thread is a revelation, because, as much as i don't care about hair typing, i throught my hair was somewhere in the 4 range, now i'm re thinking to maybe 3C/4A or such....my hair does wave and curl...i did not mean to mislead anyone, i  just really did not know.  erplexed*

*this thread is hilarious, but it does get ya ta thinking...especially when it comes to product reviews...my sister always tells me that what works for me does not work for her, and yes, our hair types are TOTALLY different...I am transitioning and it hasn't been much of a problem...i'm 9 months post...I'll keep that in mind when someone is referring a product and vice versa....*

*Sorry Sistas!    I didn't mean to throw you off!*


----------



## Nonie (Aug 27, 2008)

Haven't read the whole thread but my 4B is like other 4Bs I've seen. However, contrary to popular opinion, my 4B does have a curl pattern, only it's one that is rarely seen because of how I manipulate my hair to style. Also, because the curls/coils are so tiny, en masse it looks like wool. 

There was a time I swore that my hair was no different from steel wool, but in the few years I've been on this site, I have seen its many faces (Oh the versatility of our hair!) and discovered that it really is very soft, even when it doesn't have the shine or appearance of a newborn's hair. So now when I describe it as resembling wool, I now mean sheep's wool and not the steel wool I used to think it was.

I undid a few of my extension braids and took a pic with my cell phone of my 4B hair. I hope I can get someone to take a better one another time, but for now, here goes:






Doesn't look curly, does it? Yet I swear up and down that my hair is made of tiny little curls. And yes it is 4B. Why the absence of curls? That hair's been in braids so it's been bent and twisted this way and that way so that its true shape isn't obvious.

Rather than concern oneself with type, I think one would do well to just figure out what one's hair likes, instead of getting worked up because another's definition differs from one's own. What if our hair types were like of a spectrum of light, so that there are not distinct types, but rather a continuous trend from coarse to soft, or straight to curly...so that depending on where you head falls, you're that texture and someone a nanometer next to you has hair that looks like yours but that behaves a little different coz of that minimal difference in position on the spectrum?

I mean, really, why do we spend so much time worrying or fussing about types?


----------



## ebonylocs (Aug 27, 2008)

AvaSpeaks said:


> Think of it this way. We know how fine and straight hair looks. And then there is fine and curly hair. Usually this is with White people. But then some people can have fine and medium hair, like Asians. And then some of us can have thick hair and coarse hair. That's what people would call the "bad" hair or nappy hair


I don't know if I agree. I mean there are three things going on here: Texture, the thickness of each individual strand, and the density of the hair (how many strands you have per square inch).

I think most people of African descent have *relatively* thin strands - less cuticle layers to allow the hair to bend, as opposed to say Asian people, who have straight, thick strands. My hair is as dense as hell, and it's quite kinky and tangly and can be rough to the touch, but the strands are thin, which makes the hair feel soft when it's well moisturised. But I still have 4B hair. I know it's not 4A because it doesn't have that touch of smoothness / moistness that you see say at the front of *rabs77 hair *or at *sylver's* roots at the front. My hair dreads like mad.

The size of the strands makes a difference. There are some people with 4B hair whose regimen I can't follow because my *strands* are super-thin, while theirs are thick. E.g. my hair could not survive heat usage, daily combing, and the strands are wrecked when it's relaxed super straight.



DSylla said:


> Most of the strands of my hair are very thin and quite fragile.  But I have a whole lot of them


Yeah, me too. DSylla, I was just about to post that you're my hair (and chin) twin, but my strands are thinner and more fragile than yours. And despite my thin strands, I can NOT get a comb through my hair on *most* days, esp. when I was texlaxed, and now that I have a lot of new growth. Actually, having dense hair with thin strands probably makes it worse, because the contrast between my wooly natural hair at the roots, and the straightened hair is that much greater.


----------



## glamazon386 (Aug 27, 2008)

I agree with the if your hair has curls it's not 4b statement. It's really not that hard. And people should go by what the majority of their hair is. Another thing I think factors in is that a lot of people are assuming that because their hair is coarse it must be 4b. My hair has never been coarse my whole life but that doesn't mean I'm not a 4.


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## santwon (Aug 27, 2008)

Then...what are the tiny spirally people?


----------



## destiny616 (Aug 27, 2008)

santwon said:


> Then...what are the tiny spirally people?



4A  

.......................


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## santwon (Aug 27, 2008)

Thanks! I guess I have to join the 3 textures club then.

All those protective styles man... I haven't washed my hair loose, airdried and inspected it with no products in...heck, EVER I don't think.

ETA: 3 textures as in three types of textures, not type 3. Though, I have some of that too apparently. Lawd hammercy. Hair typing is CIRRUS!!


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## Kay.Dee (Aug 27, 2008)

Nonie
Your hair sounds exactly like mine, except my hair is coarse.  Absolutely tiny springs everywhere if you look closely, but from a normal distance you wouldn't know. And my shrinkage is crazy. 
As soon as I add product to my hair they are gone, but come back later with basically little or no manipulation (even though I don't want them to) That's why I hesitate to say 4a because I really can't define these coils no matter what, and seeing other 4a pics  and taking advice I think my haircare practices fit better with someone who has 4b hair.
Most 4as can define their curls, and I can't.
I do agree about not being too concerned with hair types, but sometimes it helps me decide what I can do to avoid any possible disasters!

even though these were taken at diff times, you get the idea
close up


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## AtlantaJJ (Aug 27, 2008)

Kurlee said:


> I think people just have a hard time understanding what 4b is. Its a matter of perception. If you have curly hair then you are not 4b. 2-4a are curly hair types and 1abc and 4b are not. I never understood the confusion.


That clears it up for me! Thanks


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## Kurlee (Aug 27, 2008)

AtlantaJJ said:


> That clears it up for me! Thanks


no prob


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## Nonie (Aug 28, 2008)

santwon said:


> Then...what are the tiny spirally people?



Santwon, that TO ME is 4B; those are the "curls" I was referring to when I said my 4B has coils/curls. You see the hair I just posted above? That is the same hair all w/o products seen below. I might add that I don't have varying textures. My hair is the same texture all through:

Wet but finger-combed:





Completely airdried:





Now I can't do WNGs coz I'm terrified of the detangling I'd have to do later. But for the sake of experimenting, I CW'd then applied a curl product. Hated how it felt so washed it off and CW'd again. Not sure how many time I repeated the CWs.  This time I didn't finger comb :crazy: but just let my hair do its thang. And just as I expected, I got this:





Here's another picture of the above section:





If I plait my hair and airdry (same area of my hair as above), this is what it looks like (and really this is how it mostly looks like coz I never let my hair get wet or airdry unless it's braided):





I apologize for the poor quality of the picture but that was taken when I made that vid showing how easy 4B hair is to comb when drenched w/ conditioner and I didn't have a good camera then. But below is a photo of the back of my hair that I undid earlier and finger-combed so the strands are together the way they would have been if I had made one single plait as in the case above. That's generally the appearance  of my hair when airdried in plaits.





Another view of my dry hair after it's been plaited:





Why the difference? Because when I braid my hair, or brush it, I force the little circles to be stretched and this braiding action causes the circular curls to be bent different ways as well. Hence the shapeless look of strands I get that look like they have no form.





Now if I do two strand twists where the two strands are small enough that their curving/wrapping around each other has a circumference about as small as the spirals of my own hair, then the ends take on the spiral shape after a few washes and no manipulation (WNG?) I don't use leave-in products so all the photos you are seeing here are of hair completely rinsed then ACV rinsed and left bare.





Another view of twist ends:





When I wear my hair out, I use S Curl to make it easy to comb and I prefer my hair combed out into a fluffy afro, rather than left to its own devices. And whenever I next wear my hair in an afro puff, I will try to take a clearer pic with my recently acquired better cam so you can see how beautiful and perfectly circular my tiny 4B spirals are.

This pic doesn't do the spirals any justice thanks to a lousy cam:


----------



## Nonie (Aug 28, 2008)

Kay.Dee said:


> Nonie
> Your hair sounds exactly like mine, *except my hair is coarse.  Absolutely tiny springs everywhere if you look closely, but from a normal distance you wouldn't know. And my shrinkage is crazy.
> As soon as I add product to my hair they are gone, but come back later with basically little or no manipulation (even though I don't want them to) That's why I hesitate to say 4a because I really can't define these coils no matter what, and seeing other 4a pics  and taking advice I think my haircare practices fit better with someone who has 4b hair.*
> Most 4as can define their curls, and I can't.
> ...



My hair felt coarse when I used products that make hair soft for other folks. Shea butter, aloe, oils...big no-no  for me. Hair felt good immediately on application but would turn into a hard coarse mass that felt crunchy. Since I started to focus more on moisturizing the hair strands on the inside (DCing) and less on the outside (baggying for that), my hair took on a whole new softness I never knew.

I took the picture below in 2004. I'd washed my hair, conditioned and ACV'd. I think at this time I might've been spritzing my hair with a solution of EOs, glycerin, jojoba, ACV and distilled water. I also loved serums to seal in the spritz. But later took the serum out coz I couldn't baggy with them or my scalp would itch something awful. Anyway, the reason I love this picture is because it was one of the first times I saw my hair in a different light. The softness... The cute spirals... It might be the day I fell madly in love w/ my hair.





Also the shrinkage you mention is the story of my life. I just don't let my hair get that way, or I'd never be able to deal with it. I keep it braided when wetting it and only undo it when dry. I also never sleep without braiding my hair for the night, even when I wear it out. And that helps lessen the shrinkage even though I usually have S Curl on it. And combing it is always so easy if I baggy in braids and S Curl. 





Oh and another thing I learned only recently was what you all mean by "definition". To me definition just means having a definite pattern that is uniform. So when I would say 4B hair has definition, I would be referring to the fact that it has a uniform pattern of circular spirals that are too light to hang like type 3 curls do so instead fluff out, but nonetheless, each strand has a uniform coil pattern that looks exactly like the one next to it. The size of the spirals makes it really hard for the strands to intertwine when we comb, but rather they just separate so that the outsides of each coil touches the next one causing them to spread out (Behold the afro!). Type 3 hair curls are big and the strands probably thicker or heavier (?) and so even when you comb, the strands' big C shapes make it easy for the hairs to cup each other in a way that stands out. So just because out hair doesn't fall into obvious tubular shapes that are visible to the naked eye, doesn't mean that the shape isn't there.


----------



## janet (Aug 28, 2008)

Nonie your hair is so pretty!


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## Kay.Dee (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks nonie, hopefully I'll have some success with my hair after take out braids, hopefully I can get mine to stop revolting against me .  Your hair is awesome and I _think_ we may have similar hair types, do you have an album?


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## classi123 (Aug 28, 2008)

envybeauty said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> So I see plenty of sistas on here saying that they are 4b. In my mind, IMO, 4b hair is very coarse hair. To ME, coarse hair does not have a defined curl or wave pattern. TO ME, 4b hair is very cottony like in that you cannot deterimine any kind of pattern to it when looking at how the hairs loop around. It is not like small pen springs or loose roller waves. AT LEAST MY 4B HAIR DOES NOT!
> ...


 

I feel the same exact way!!! Thanks for this post!!


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## Nonie (Aug 28, 2008)

Kurlee said:


> I think people just have a hard time understanding what 4b is. Its a matter of perception. If you have curly hair then you are not 4b. 2-4a are curly hair types and 1abc and 4b are not. I never understood the confusion.



  It is because 4B has so many faces that there's confusion.

I am 100% 4B. My hair usually looks like it has no curl to it because if I allowed my hair to do its thang and manifest its true structure, I'd not be able to deal with it. The tiny spirals would wrap around each other and shrinkage would mean I'd have a heck of a time trying to separate the strands. So the MO is to keep my hair somewhat in a stretched state so the strands can stay separate and parallel instead of curled up into a compact structure resembling a doormat. And it is the existence of tiny curls that would make it behave the way I describe. I mean, no one would call me a 2 or 3 or even 4A, could they? 






But even in this small section you can see what a braid-out on 4B hair looks like. The base just looks like what most people believe 4B to be: woolly, no clear definition. But look at the part that was the actual braid in the big plait I posted earlier. Check out the waves of the braided-out section! (This is the versatility of 4B hair that I keep raving about.) This is the very same section that looked like the pic below last night before I put it in a big braid for the night:




BTW my hair is completely dry and bare in both these pictures. I last washed it on Sunday (EGADS! Time to wash again  ) and no product (moisturizer or styling agent) was applied to it after the wash.

Now if I were to wet it and let it airdry--I'm not even talking about conditioning or shampooing. Just wet it and of course finger comb and leave well alone, you would see it turn into these tiny little circular curls/spirals:





Behold the curls of 4B hair!


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## Neith (Aug 28, 2008)

I don't agree that 4b has NO curl.

Hair only really comes from straight to curly.  Wavy hair is just very loosely curled hair.  Kinky is hair is VERY curly hair.

If it's not curly, then what is it?  It sure isn't straight or wavy.  "Frizz" is not a curl pattern.  Kinkyness is a question of the actual texture (level of coarseness) and not JUST curl pattern.  which is why you can have a highly defined 4a and a less "perfectly" defined 4a like mine for example.

Now 4b is not just devoid of any type of curl pattern.  It just doesn't "clump" like 4a does.  It also tends to be very coarse.​


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## Nonie (Aug 28, 2008)

I think what makes hair coarse isn't its curl pattern so that the tight curls of 4B would mean it's coarse. What makes hair coarse is the size of the strands. My hair is very fine (thin strands) and it is very soft indeed, even though it doesn't look it. I don't put anything on it and yet people who have been curious and reached out to touch it remark on how soft it is. Now I know it feels even softer when I apply something to it like S Curl. 

My hubby has 3C/4A hair and it feels coarser than my hair.  His strands are very thick though and very dark.

ETA: hubby's hair


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## dcprdiva (Aug 28, 2008)

Hmm... this post has me rethinking my hair type.  I know i'm 4B in the middle - which is why i can't stretch too long. Hair is tooooo coarse in the middle and is the driest part of my hair.  The edges are 4a.


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## ManeVixen (Aug 28, 2008)

DSylla said:


> I am definitely 4b with a little 4a thrown in (it's time for me to review that double chin tightener thread )


 


mscocoface said:


> 4b signing in. Can we say BLACK COTTON!!!!!!!!! Please see siggy and avatar for review.
> 
> That is exactly what my hair looks like. When anyone tells me their regimen and I know there hair type is different I am ALWAYS prepared to change the amount of product.
> 
> ...


 


rdm said:


> All this time, I thought I was 4a/4b combo. I now realize that I am a 3c/4a combo.


 
Me too...i just knew i was 4B however my hair texture isnt like the ladies above Great thread tho


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## Fine 4s (Aug 28, 2008)

klb120475 said:


> Other way around, 4b is coarser than 4a.


 
I define "coarse" as a strand of hair as strong as a rope. The diameter of the hair strand is bigger than it is for fine hair (coarse vs. fine). Asian hair is defined as coarse quite a bit.

So, based on my understanding, one can have coarse 4a or 4b etc.


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## anon123 (Aug 28, 2008)

mscocoface said:


> 4b signing in.  Can we say BLACK COTTON!!!!!!!!! Please see siggy and avatar for review.
> 
> Here is a lady that has 4B textured hair and I just love it.  When my hair grows up I hope it is like hers one day.
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/Kemi21/hair/june-2007/



Interestingly enough, Kemi defines her hair as 4a with a bit of 3c.

Lots of people's 4bs will not be other people's 4bs.  I think it's going to happen with all the hair type categories because people's hair didn't come about to fit into one of a few boxes.  Also because 4b is the last category in that system, it's like anything that looks distinctly afro textured but couldn't fit squarely into 4a all gets dumped into 4b.


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## glamazon386 (Aug 28, 2008)

Fine 4s said:


> I define "coarse" as a strand of hair as strong as a rope. The diameter of the hair strand is bigger than it is for fine hair (coarse vs. fine). Asian hair is defined as coarse quite a bit.
> 
> So, based on my understanding, one can have coarse 4a or 4b etc.



That's true. Any hair type from 1 through 4 can be coarse. Not just 4b. That also doesn't meant that 4a can't be coarse. I know some coarse 3's.


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## Cheleigh (Aug 28, 2008)

Neith said:


> I don't agree that 4b has NO curl.
> 
> Hair only really comes from straight to curly.  Wavy hair is just very loosely curled hair.  Kinky is hair is VERY curly hair.
> 
> ...



This tends to be my thinking about 4b too. I think 4b hair can take different shapes: 4b "can" be kinky straight (irregular hills and valleys that don't form an "S" or "O" shaped strand), or it "can" be super curly strands ("O" shaped) that won't clump together into curls or coils. A lot of people seem to have a combo of 4a/4b, but I do think that 4b hair has more diversity within the "hair type" than Andre, or most people, give it credit for.


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## santwon (Aug 28, 2008)

Nonie, thanks for all of that. I hadn't seen that yet. That looks like my hair. And I'd agreed that 4b has no curl but it DOES have a curl they are just tiny. I really wish you'd send those photos to some of those book publishers. I get SOOOO upset when I see hair typing photos and they show all of the textures from 1a to 4a with long hair but the the 4b/4c girl has a short crop. I'm like are you SERIOUS??!! How am I supposed to tell what the texture is when she has NO HAIR compared to all the other pictures? or it's a picture of Erykah Badu's weave like what was mentioned earlier. Seeing a photo of Beyonce there is...just not a fair comparison.

My hair looks like Nonie's too. So, what now? Do I retract myself from the 3 texture group? There aren't enough categories. This doesn't make any sense. And it kinda makes a difference but it kinda doesn't. I think I'll just try to make it work for me and see what my hair needs instead of trying to find a checkbox for it.


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## sunnieb (Sep 25, 2009)

Bumping....

This thread was a good read.


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## HarlemHottie (Sep 26, 2009)

Radianthealth said:


> Funny
> 
> I assure you that I am a 4B
> 
> ...



You guys have me second guessing my typing now...


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## locabouthair (Sep 26, 2009)

I always felt like most people claiming 4b really weren't especially those who are relaxed. 

I honestly think few people have "my type" of 4b hair.


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## MizzBrit (Sep 26, 2009)

this thread looks interesting..im going back to read
but yea..4b checking in!


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## CurlyMoo (Sep 26, 2009)

Legend said:


> Interesting thread. I’ve thought about the same thing, too.
> 
> There are gradations of many hair types, which are pretty generalized. My 4B hair is anything but cottony, but sharp and wiry, each strand about the thickness of sewing thread. Ido have a wave pattern, but it’s a sharp “Z” not an “S” and very irregular. It doesn’t kink or coil (though I’ve discovered a new coily patch recently ), but just sort of shoots straight up from my head. (I have my father’s hair  ) I texlax it because it cannot be too straight.
> 
> I attached a fair digital representation of my hair strands. The Natural version is on the top, the texlaxed version is on the bottom.


 





I call those micro-waves.


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## HarlemHottie (Sep 26, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> I always felt like most people claiming 4b really weren't especially those who are relaxed.
> 
> I honestly think few people have "my type" of 4b hair.




You might be right, I mean I went off my 4b relaxed hair Idols Traycee & Kami... 
During the year I was natural (and didn't know how to take care of my hair) I would slap some B&B grease on my hair with some water and tie it down and it always produced waves... I thought that was the natural order of things if you applied grease and water  .... But now I'm reading ALL over the board that if you're natural hair does that it's not 4b (sigh) look at this late in the game I'm not about to change anything... The products that are being use on 4b hair make my hair thrive and grow so if it ain't broke then you know the rest...  

I have the same issue when I claim the "DARK SKIN" tittle I'm told I don't fit that mold either when I think I do and  LOVE IT (Dark chocolate hear me roar lol )... Well let me hush because i'm getting all of topic now. erplexed


----------



## Honey Bee (Sep 26, 2009)

HarlemHottie said:


> now I'm reading ALL over the board that if you're natural hair does that it's not 4b (sigh)


omg, is that true?!  Damn, now I'm all confused...



> I have the same issue when I claim the "DARK SKIN" tittle


I know that's right, I do that same thing, but imo, if you aint 'light skinded"... let me stop.


----------



## locabouthair (Sep 26, 2009)

MizzBrit said:


> this thread looks interesting..im going back to read
> but yea..4b checking in!



And my 4b doesn't look like yours. It's much kinkier.

I think I need a whole another category for myself 

I really wish I took pics when I was natural.


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## robot. (Sep 26, 2009)

My hair is NOTHING like 4b. Now I'm hearing that 4b and 4a are also NOTHING like. I figured that since they were in the same category, they'd be at least similar. I thought I was a 3c/4a, but maybe now I'm only in the 3's?

Oh, I don't know what to believe anymore.


----------



## Nonie (Sep 26, 2009)

ROBOTxcore said:


> My hair is NOTHING like 4b. Now I'm hearing that 4b and 4a are also NOTHING like. I figured that since they were in the same category, they'd be at least similar. I thought I was a 3c/4a, but maybe now I'm only in the 3's?
> 
> Oh, I don't know what to believe anymore.



 Believe me.   4B and 4A are similar. Both are made of tiny curls. Differences: 4A curls bigger than 4A curls, clump easily so that they can WNG and get bouncy curls that show and resemble 3's. 4B curls do not clump easily and WNGs do not look like bouncy curls but rather the hair shrinks back on itself and may only appear to clump at the ends forming what looks like a chunky afro. 4A curls may still be visible when you rake a comb through the hair and look like the phony puff I am wearing below. 4B curls disappear when you rake a comb through the hair and it looks like a cloud or wool as seen below. Usually 4B hair will look like it has no form coz it's usually brushed/combed/stretched into a style. To see the curls of 4B hair it has to be wet and well-conditioned and allowed to dry unmanipulated. I'm not talking about having products, I'm talking about DC'd hair that isn't dry. Even then, you'd have to be close up and separate the strands from each other to see the texture. Otherwise you'd just see darkness without form...cotton puff.

4A WNG hair:





4B WNG hair:





4A combed out afro puff (phony puff):





4B combed out afro puff (mine stretched and non-wet moisturizer used):





4B combed out afro puff (mine combed wet after a wash and glycerin moisturizer used):





Close up afro unstretched:


----------



## HarlemHottie (Sep 26, 2009)

Nonie said:


> Believe me.   4B and 4A are similar. Both are made of tiny curls. Differences: 4A curls bigger than 4A curls, clump easily so that they can WNG and get bouncy curls that show and resemble 3's. 4B curls do not clump easily and WNGs do not look like bouncy curls but rather the hair shrinks back on itself and may only appear to clump at the ends forming what looks like a chunky afro. 4A curls may still be visible when you rake a comb through the hair and look like the phony puff I am wearing below. 4B curls disappear when you rake a comb through the hair and it looks like a cloud or wool as seen below. Usually 4B hair will look like it has no form coz it's usually brushed/combed/stretched into a style. To see the curls of 4B hair it has to be wet and well-conditioned and allowed to dry unmanipulated. I'm not talking about having products, I'm talking about DC'd hair that isn't dry. Even then, you'd have to be close up and separate the strands from each other to see the texture. Otherwise you'd just see darkness without form...cotton puff.
> 
> 4A WNG hair:
> 
> ...




THANK YOU....


----------



## robot. (Sep 26, 2009)

Nonie, your answers are so thorough! Thank you!

From what you posted, I may not be a 4 at all. I'll just have to wait and see. I have some tiny, tiny curls that like to stick close to my scalp, but I don't have a lot of them. They are silky and not kinky at all. They just make little 'o's. And some of my "curls" are more like kinky waves. They make a very big 'S,' but instead of having the curves of an 's', they almost form angles!  I wish I could take a picture to show.


----------



## loulou82 (Sep 26, 2009)

ROBOTxcore said:


> Nonie, your answers are so thorough! Thank you!
> 
> From what you posted, I may not be a 4 at all. I'll just have to wait and see. I have some tiny, tiny curls that like to stick close to my scalp, but I don't have a lot of them. They are silky and not kinky at all. They just make little 'o's. And some of my "curls" are more like kinky waves. They make a very big 'S,' but instead of having the curves of an 's', they almost form angles!  I wish I could take a picture to show.



Your hair reminds me of Kittykat:

http://public.fotki.com/kittykat1374/going-into-my-3rd-y/from-big-cut-till-a/two-weeks-after-bc.html

Her hair has grown into a definite "S" pattern:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc3MvyCB3y8&feature=channel_page


----------



## Nonie (Sep 26, 2009)

ROBOTxcore said:


> Nonie, your answers are so thorough! Thank you!
> 
> From what you posted, I may not be a 4 at all. I'll just have to wait and see. I have some tiny, tiny curls that like to stick close to my scalp, but I don't have a lot of them. They are silky and not kinky at all. They just make little 'o's. And some of my "curls" are more like kinky waves. They make a very big 'S,' but instead of having the curves of an 's', they almost form angles!  I wish I could take a picture to show.



I think you'll know your true type when it's longer and then you try different styles with it, especially WNG, and see how it behaves. You may fall in the middle, 4A/B.

If I look at a few strands of my 4B hair (like I undid a couple of braids here) after washing and without product this is how they look wet:





Then if I don't touch it and let it dry w/o products, it still looks like this:





And then I smoothed S Curl from base to ends and this is how it looked:





To get perspective of how small the curls are, here's another pic:





It doesn't look like those few strands when it's all out. You can get an idea of how those spirals disappear when it's all out when you look at the part on the right where the strands are tightly packed. In this pic, the strands are dry and bare as in the pic before the S Curl one:





And then below is how all the hair looks when it is all S Curled. Again, you can't see the coils as you could in that pic when only a few strands are S Curled. The hair curls back into fluffy cotton-y puffs:


----------



## MizzBrit (Sep 26, 2009)

wow when my hair is wet..i dnt see small curls like that at all


----------



## Nonie (Sep 26, 2009)

loulou82 said:


> Your hair reminds me of Kittykat:
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/kittykat1374/going-into-my-3rd-y/from-big-cut-till-a/two-weeks-after-bc.html
> 
> ...



Her hair looks to me like it is in the 3 family.


----------



## HarlemHottie (Sep 26, 2009)

Nonie said:


> I think you'll know your true type when it's longer and then you try different styles with it, especially WNG, and see how it behaves. You may fall in the middle, 4A/B.
> 
> If I look at a few strands of my 4B hair (like I undid a couple of braids here) after washing and without product this is how they look wet:
> 
> ...




SEE HERE'S THE THING FOR ME IN THIS PHOTO THE HAIR HAS JUST BEEN REMOVED FROM A BRAID WHICH TO ME IS GIVING IT IT'S FORM... IT'S LIKE WHEN I SPRAY MY BRAID OUTS WITH WATER IT GIVE THE "APPEARANCE" OF WASH AND GO HAIR BUT MY HAIR IS FAR FROM IT... LOL


----------



## shunemite (Sep 26, 2009)

Radianthealth said:


> Funny
> 
> I assure you that I am a 4B
> 
> ...



This is my hair too! Except your is thicker and darker. It appears strong, but bring a fine toothed comb near it and snap snap snap!


----------



## Nonie (Sep 26, 2009)

MizzBrit said:


> wow when my hair is wet..i dnt see small curls like that at all



I don't think 4B's who actually want to keep their hair would see that when they wash all their hair. Notice I took a very small part to do this "no manipulation exercise". Also I don't use combs and can go a whole year w/o using a comb or brush nor do I stretch it in a pony often. I bet you if you were to take a small section of your hair the next time you DC as narrow a section as I did, and instead of combing it like you do the rest of your hair or whatever it is you do when you DC to keep it from tangling, just use your fingers to separate the strands. You may need to stretch as you detangle (make sure you have shampoo or conditioner for slip) but let it boing back into place. The same when you condition. All your finger are doing is trying to keep strands separate. When you rinse, use your fingers to detangle (no brush no comb). I bet you you will start to see waves. Do this again--that is keep hair unmanipulated except for preventing tangling, and the same coils you see in your puff will appear. You just don't see them coz you comb/brush and style your hair often. That's why it appears straight coz that's how you wear it, pulled back straight.


----------



## Nonie (Sep 26, 2009)

HarlemHottie said:


> SEE HERE'S THE THING FOR ME IN THIS PHOTO THE HAIR HAS JUST BEEN REMOVED FROM A BRAID WHICH TO ME IS GIVING IT IT'S FORM... IT'S LIKE WHEN I SPRAY MY BRAID OUTS WITH WATER IT GIVE THE "APPEARANCE" OF WASH AND GO HAIR BUT MY HAIR IS FAR FROM IT... LOL



The Lisa Simpson puff was after I had been out of braids for 3 months. 

My hair immediately out of a braids looks more like this:








And like this when that is detangled:





And this is more of my hair out of braids:





I usually braid it in bigger braids after removing the extensions to keep it from shrinking and being unbearable until I have washed it and conditioned and applied S Curl so a comb can glide. So these are big braids of hair that's just been taken out of extensions:





I do not put a comb through my hair until it is wet and drenched in conditioner so that the comb is slippery as seen in this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCcoXph8tF4

BTW, I keep telling you all that 4B hair doesn't look curly because of manipulation, right? Well the hair you just saw going boing in that vid was braided after it had been combed through--as I do when washing my hair if I wash it out and not in tiny braids/twists--with conditioner still on:





And then when I started rinsing, I undid the braid and combed with water running through it to fully rinse, and then braided it wet so it'd not shrink back into an unmanageable state as it dried. And how did the hair look when I undid it? Like this:





BTW, that is the same section which when a few strands were wet, conditioned and finger-combed ie not raked with a comb looked like this:





In both cases, no products were used on the hair after conditioner was rinsed out.


----------



## robot. (Sep 26, 2009)

loulou82 said:


> Your hair reminds me of Kittykat:
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/kittykat1374/going-into-my-3rd-y/from-big-cut-till-a/two-weeks-after-bc.html
> 
> ...



Her hair is gorgeous! I see a little bit of my hair in her BC.  Thank you for posting.

Nonie, would you says she's just a 3? Or has a bit of a mix?

ETA: Nvm, I see your answer!


----------



## MizzBrit (Sep 26, 2009)

ahh i see!
very detailed!


----------



## JollyGal (Sep 26, 2009)

curlycraze said:


> The truth is...There are over 100 different black hair textures, trust.



This is so true.

What you described OP is how a section of my hair behaves but that section doesn't look like the pictures posted.

I'm really confused and think I may have 4 different types to my hair.

Can 4B hair hold styles such as twist outs without heat/manipulation?


----------



## bedazzled (Sep 26, 2009)

IMO, there is no way to mistake the infamous 4B. I've heard some (via web) say that my hair is a "soft looking 4a"...But IMO this is the criteria that is needed to distinguish a 4B.

• Your new growth looks like a puffball made out of carpet.
• After moisturizing, 10 minutes later it looks dry again.
• When it's wet it doesn't LOOK WET.

My 4B hair when wet, it'll look like dry with water droplets on it. My 4a/3C areas in the crown actual looks like wet hair. Think of it this way a wet cotton ball vs. a wet barbie doll.

Here are my 4B pics.

Notice below in my upclose shots of a piece of my nape pulled out. There is NO curl pattern. Just a whole bunch of zig zagged X, Y and Z's. 











&

moisturized & looks dry but if you stretch these naps out & rub along it, it feels really soft. :/ 





So yer, I agree. Alot of 4b's dont look like my 4B. 

I am glad this thread was done so now i can look through all the 4b's that replied & stalk their fotki's & view their reggies.


----------



## Nonie (Sep 26, 2009)

sunhun said:


> This is so true.
> 
> What you described OP is how a section of my hair behaves but that section doesn't look like the pictures posted.
> 
> ...



Absolutely. I think if any hair can do that it's 4B hair. 

This is braid out on my 4B hair. Hair was washed many times in small braids and then unbraided after it was dry. No heat used but hair took the shape of the braid waves:





This is a twist-out also after hair had been washed in twists and allowed to dry in twists. My twists aren't fluffy because of my twisting method. I first twirl each strand on its axis before wrapping the two strands around each other. So you can see 4B's ability to maintain the shape you set it in. Again, no heat used so twist-out turned out like this:








Another twist-out (bangs) with a bit of fluffing out:





Now I have done a braid out on straightened hair although that wasn't the plan. I'd been wearing my hair in small plaits and I forgot my comb and didn't realize I had not carried it till I'd undone my braids so just let them be and this was the braid out:





To see how easy it is to set 4B into a braid out w/o heat, look at the wave on my hair when I undid one of these braids:





I hadn't even washed my hair or wet the braid here. I had undone tiny braids and braided my hair as seen above to keep from detangling. Then when I undid it the next day, I had waves imitating the pattern of braiding:





The section at the base that wasn't in the rope part of the braid didn't have the wave. If I had brushed the base before braiding or pulled it tight, I might've had straight smooth base. Now it's textured like dry 4B stretched-not-brushed hair.


----------



## Nonie (Sep 26, 2009)

bedazzled said:


> IMO, there is no way to mistake the infamous 4B. I've heard some (via web) say that my hair is a "soft looking 4a"...But IMO this is the criteria that is needed to distinguish a 4B.
> 
> • Your new growth looks like a puffball made out of carpet.
> • After moisturizing, 10 minutes later it looks dry again.
> ...



Your hair reminds me a lot of my hair. Like I said earlier in this thread or the other one, my new growth felt rough and hard. It also felt that way when I used products like butters. It's not been like that since I went natural and cut back on products to only use S Curl. In fact when I have no products on my hair, while it may feel dry to one used to feeling moist hair, it is very soft. It is particularly this softness that makes me forever afflicted with HIH. Remember I have NO products in my braided hair. I also think my hair "became soft" after I started DCing so learned how to have moisturized hair even if not coated in moisture. 

Also my hair never looks wet when wet unless I take a few strands so you can see water glistening on them. This hair is dripping wet:





I do not see zigzags. I see curls. The curls I enclose in the red rectangle of your attached pic are no different from those I see at the base of my hair here:


----------



## Junebug D (Sep 26, 2009)

^^ What Nonie said. mine looked like that too! May i ask what state your hair was in when you took the pulled nape pics, bedazzled?  When mine had been manipulated in some way, it would look like that.  Even just the bottom of my scarf pressed against the nape for 30 minutes or so would cause it to take that shape.  And when wet & post-conditioned it looked like the coilies Nonie has been posting. 

(So odd having to refer to my natural hair in the past tense now, heh...)


----------



## bedazzled (Sep 26, 2009)

Nonie said:


> Your hair reminds me a lot of my hair. Like I said earlier in this thread or the other one, my new growth felt rough and hard. It also felt that way when I used products like butters. It's not been like that since I went natural and cut back on products to only use S Curl. In fact when I have no products on my hair, while it may feel dry to one used to feeling moist hair, it is very soft. It is particularly this softness that makes me forever afflicted with HIH. Remember I have NO products in my braided hair. I also think my hair "became soft" after I started DCing so learned how to have moisturized hair even if not coated in moisture.
> 
> Also my hair never looks wet when wet unless I take a few strands so you can see water glistening on them. This hair is dripping wet:
> 
> ...



I don't have not ONE curl like yours in my head. Not one defined curl except in the middle of my hair but my curls are alot bigger cause the middle of my hair has some 4a/3c. IMO yours seems like more of an actual curl pattern to me but MAYBE the difference is sense I relax, I have scab hair or I just need to wait until my hair grows out more because my hair looks like your hair at your hairline (as far as similarities go). If thats how my 4B hair will look if I go natural, I think I might actually want to go natural 



shan_2001 said:


> ^^ What Nonie said. mine looked like that too! May i ask what state your hair was in when you took the pulled nape pics, bedazzled? When mine had been manipulated in some way, it would look like that. Even just the bottom of my scarf pressed against the nape for 30 minutes or so would cause it to take that shape. And when wet & post-conditioned it looked like the coilies Nonie has been posting.
> 
> (So odd having to refer to my natural hair in the past tense now, heh...)



Well my hair was washed & dc'd last night but thats about it...  But thats how it looks after conditioning. I never have coilies like Nonie. Not at all. This is the closest thing I have to what my natural hair looks like & this is when my nape fell out a a year ago. But even then as it grew out it never looked like nonie's curls. It grew out as a bush post-conditioned and everything. Nonie's curls looks 4a to me. *I even asked my mother if my hair looked like nonie's and she said no her texture is looser than mine.*


----------



## Chevelure618 (Sep 26, 2009)

Envy I am so glad you came out on this point.  I noticed the same thing.  I see people saying they are 4b when they are probably more like in the 3b to 4a range.  And then their hair seems non-porous or less dense.  4b to me means wiry, coarse, no curl pattern hair that if left to dry on its own in its natural state would be a tight TWA. 

 I remember back in the day when everyone wore a 'fro, most people could wear one, but the girls with the big, Angela Davis type fros usually had looser hair types. Today I would characterize their hair as 3b/4a.  The girls who would have to use "Blow-Out" on their hair, (this was a mild relaxer that would loosen the hair just enough to give you a bigger fro) usually had the wiry truly type 4b hair.

My hair is 4b coarse through the midback and sides.  It is 4a on the top and edges and maybe 2b at the nape.  But darned if the 4b, which breaks and is resistant to relaxers doesn't get all my attention and it happens to be the hair that has to be long to make my hair look long all over.  That is why I would say I am 4b.  The other softer hair doesn't even matter on my head.

Now don't blast me for this but I've said it before.  MaCherieamour does NOT have 4b hair.  I saw her roots when she did a 17 weeks stretch.  She uses a Super Relaxer strength...well no wonder why her hair gets so dern straight.  Sylver2's hair is not 4b.  Her hair to me looks like 4a but it is thick and dense.  I think she says she is 4a/4b.  My hair is similar to hers, but only in some sections.  What I'm trying to say is that you are right.  True 4b DOES NOT HAVE a curl or wave pattern unless you stretch it out and then you will see a very tight S or Z.


----------



## Nonie (Sep 26, 2009)

bedazzled said:


> Well my hair was washed & dc'd last night but thats about it...  But thats how it looks after conditioning. I never have coilies like Nonie. Not at all. This is the closest thing I have to what my natural hair looks like & this is when my nape fell out a a year ago. But even then as it grew out it never looked like nonie's curls. It grew out as a bush post-conditioned and everything. Nonie's curls looks 4a to me. *I even asked my mother if my hair looked like nonie's and she said no her texture is looser than mine.*



Your hair is relaxed though right? As I mentioned somewhere, my new growth looked and like yours and was rough as a brush when I was relaxed. Like I said, my hair looked like yours when I was relaxed. I guess like Kurlee says, it's all in perception coz I swear I'm looking at your hair and it looks like mine. Your hair may be coarser than mine (thicker strands) but my hair would never be defined as having a looser texture to any hair. Nothing in my nappy head is loose. 

I asked my hubby whether my hair is looser than yours in that pic, he looked at me like I'm smoking crack.


----------



## bedazzled (Sep 26, 2009)

Nonie said:


> Your hair is relaxed though right? As I mentioned somewhere, my new growth looked and like yours and was rough as a brush when I was relaxed. Like I said, my hair looked like yours when I was relaxed. I guess like Kurlee says, it's all in perception coz I swear I'm looking at your hair and it looks like mine. Your hair may be coarser than mine (thicker strands) but my hair would never be defined as having a looser texture to any hair. Nothing in my nappy head is loose.
> 
> *I asked my hubby whether my hair is looser than yours in that pic, he looked at me like I'm smoking crack.*




LMAO. Amen. 4B's unite. I think its definitely because I am relaxed. Gosh this makes me want to go natural!!!!! Pass me that fotki so I can stalk you! I thought my hair was going to feel rough as a brush as a natural! :/ ...going might be an option after all. TY! You are motivation!!!


----------



## virtuenow (Sep 27, 2009)

bedazzled said:


> LMAO. Amen. 4B's unite. I think its definitely because I am relaxed. Gosh this makes me want to go natural!!!!! Pass me that fotki so I can stalk you! I thought my hair was going to feel rough as a brush as a natural! :/ ...going might be an option after all. TY! You are motivation!!!


 
Well, just so you know, Nonie is not the only true 4b who is working the natural look.  My texture is very similar (if not identical).  Let this be more encouragement to you b/c I have been where you are.  

The only thing consistent  and predictable about my relaxer was that it would chew off all of the hair in the back of my head without warning.  Just like your hair.  I could get get to a good length and become confident w/my hair all swinging- go on a stretch and everything; once I pop a relaxer in, all of hair in the back, poof, gone!  That is when I decided to do this (click to enlarge TWA pics- before I ever heard of LHCF or a "twistout)):


----------



## bedazzled (Oct 4, 2009)

virtuenow said:


> Well, just so you know, Nonie is not the only true 4b who is working the natural look.  My texture is very similar (if not identical).  Let this be more encouragement to you b/c I have been where you are.
> 
> The only thing consistent  and predictable about my relaxer was that it would chew off all of the hair in the back of my head without warning.  Just like your hair.  I could get get to a good length and become confident w/my hair all swinging- go on a stretch and everything; once I pop a relaxer in, all of hair in the back, poof, gone!  That is when I decided to do this (click to enlarge TWA pics- before I ever heard of LHCF or a "twistout)):



DROPS JAW. WOW Your hair is beautiful. This is so motivational. I am going to PM you back because i want to ask you some questions.


----------



## Choirgirl (Oct 4, 2009)

rdm said:


> All this time, I thought I was 4a/4b combo. I now realize that I am a 3c/4a combo.


 

I think I'm right there with you...


----------



## trynagrow (Jun 8, 2010)

Seriously, this is one of the best threads I've read and I think anyone trying to learn their hair type should read it. Especially anyone who is a type 4 period.

Some people might not care about typing their hair but it seems important for true 4bers so they don't go chasing products/styles/results they see other people with.  Love, love, love this thread!


----------



## SignatureBeauty (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks Nonie! For the Clarification I had!

 I am a 4a/4b!


----------



## SimJam (Jun 8, 2010)

4b chekkin in 

as my hair grw longer has seemed to get less  "defined"  and more cottony


----------



## Chameleonchick (Jun 8, 2010)

Okay why am I so confused now? I always thought my hair was 4b but I do have some curlage going on when wet. I have some spring sproings in my hair too but for the most part when it dries it clumps like cotton. Heres a pic from my fotki what do you think?

Dry pic
http://public.fotki.com/MokahDeeLyte/naturalness-1/jan-mar10/dsc00336-jpg.html

Wet Pic
http://public.fotki.com/MokahDeeLyte/naturalness-1/jan-mar10/dsc00527-jpg.html


----------



## naturalgyrl5199 (Jun 8, 2010)

I remember transitioning...and even when my hair was permed people were always like you have this thick course hair..... BUT...When you become 100% natural its easier to see your true hair type after the perm is cut off.....I learned my hair is actually FINE...but it covers almost EVERY SQUARE INCH OF MY HEAD so it LOOKS thick! Which for years had me fooled....In 2 years after the BC I have flat ironed my hair 6-8 times and even with that my coils are more loose.......I got a PM the other day and someone thought I was playing about being a 4B...But my hair in my siggy is soaking wet!


Honestly I tire of the hair typing...it hasn't made much of an influence on my regimen, the type of hair products I buy....I do what my hair needs.....thats all that matters to me....

Looking at my BC pic and based on the hair typing website I found..I am naturally a 4A in the front, 4B on middle and sides...and 3C in the nape area.......


----------



## naturalgyrl5199 (Jun 8, 2010)

Chevelure618 said:


> Envy I am so glad you came out on this point. I noticed the same thing. I see people saying they are 4b when they are probably more like in the 3b to 4a range. And then their hair seems non-porous or less dense. *4b to me means wiry, coarse, no curl pattern hair that if left to dry on its own in its natural state would be a tight TWA. *
> 
> I remember back in the day when everyone wore a 'fro, most people could wear one, but the girls with the big, Angela Davis type fros usually had looser hair types. Today I would characterize their hair as 3b/4a. The girls who would have to use "Blow-Out" on their hair, (this was a mild relaxer that would loosen the hair just enough to give you a bigger fro) usually had the wiry truly type 4b hair.
> 
> ...


 
What I bolded is me ALL DAY....!


----------



## SignatureBeauty (Jun 8, 2010)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> I remember transitioning...and even when my hair was permed people were always like you have this thick course hair..... BUT...When you become 100% natural its easier to see your true hair type after the perm is cut off.....I learned my hair is actually FINE...but it covers almost EVERY SQUARE INCH OF MY HEAD so it LOOKS thick! Which for years had me fooled....In 2 years after the BC I have flat ironed my hair 6-8 times and even with that my coils are more loose.......I got a PM the other day and someone thought I was playing about being a 4B...But my hair in my siggy is soaking wet!
> 
> 
> *Honestly I tire of the hair typing...it hasn't made much of an influence on my regimen, the type of hair products I buy....I do what my hair needs.....thats all that matters to me....*
> ...




I agree with the Bolded, I also have 3c/in the back, 4a on the Front and  sides and 4b in the Middle/Crown area.


----------



## Nonie (Jun 8, 2010)

Chameleonchick said:


> Okay why am I so confused now? I always thought my hair was 4b but I do have some curlage going on when wet. I have some spring sproings in my hair too but for the most part when it dries it clumps like cotton. Heres a pic from my fotki what do you think?
> 
> Dry pic
> http://public.fotki.com/MokahDeeLyte/naturalness-1/jan-mar10/dsc00336-jpg.html
> ...




 I'd say you're 4B. All hair comes in one of 3 forms: straight, wavy or curly (coily). There is a range of diameter size in those with curly/coil hair, with 3A being the biggest coils and 4B the smallest.


----------



## Kurlee (Jun 8, 2010)

Chameleonchick said:


> Okay why am I so confused now? I always thought my hair was 4b but I do have some curlage going on when wet. I have some spring sproings in my hair too but for the most part when it dries it clumps like cotton. Heres a pic from my fotki what do you think?
> 
> Dry pic
> http://public.fotki.com/MokahDeeLyte/naturalness-1/jan-mar10/dsc00336-jpg.html
> ...


judging from the wet pics, 4a.


----------



## NIN4eva (Jun 8, 2010)

trynagrow said:


> Seriously, this is one of the best threads I've read and I think anyone trying to learn their hair type should read it. Especially anyone who is a type 4 period.
> 
> Some people might not care about typing their hair but it seems important for true 4bers so they don't go chasing products/styles/results they see other people with.  Love, love, love this thread!



I wholeheartedly agree. I will admit to immediately leaving a thread that's full of 3b's and c's...


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## detroitdiva (Jun 8, 2010)

I totally feel ya sister girl! I am a true 4b, with no wave or curl pattern definition. My hair is kinky and very course. It is also very fragile and breaks easily especially if it is dry. I love my 4b hair, and I have learned to embrace it more on my natural journey. Many girls may claim to be a 4a/4b mix but have smooth and curly natural hair. That is not 4b!! It is just as you pointed out. Great post!


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## yaya24 (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm *90%* 4B
*10%* 4A


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## dender (Jun 8, 2010)

Great post. I know you always hear lots of people say they tire of the hair typing system but truth is I don't know where i'd be without it. Of course if you are a type 3 the hair typing system doesn't matter as much because most products and techniques you stumble upon will work for you within some degree but as a 4b this is not the case. Attempting to use a type three or even 4a method or product has ended in many a tangled dry shrunken tearfull mess. I think Mwedzi is right though, about "others" just getting lumped as 4b, there are defo differences within the category. My hair is 4b but the sides are more 4b than the rest, does that make sense?


----------



## equestrian (Jun 8, 2010)

Mine is a combo. I remember asking on black hair media and got crickets for a while. 4b at the roots, and starts to look 3c/b towards the end.


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## purplepeace79 (Jun 8, 2010)

*** it, I'm rolling with the 4Bs... Best. Hair. Ever!!!

I'm claiming 4B like I'm claiming MBL.

Word to ya moms.


----------



## NIN4eva (Jun 8, 2010)




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## DaDragonPrincess (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm 4B, check my fotki


----------



## loshed (Jun 9, 2010)

What do you guys think about my hair? 4b or 4a/b? I mostly say I have type 4 hair because I honestly don't know what I should claim. Back when people would say 4bs had zero curl definition I'd think, "okay, 4a/b it is." but now that 4bs can have coils I'm back to being lost. I have 4b because the whole crown of my head doesn't clump at all without product. It's just a cloud. But what is this other stuff? Since it's frizzy, tiny coils is it 4b also?


----------



## Imani (Jun 10, 2010)

SimJam said:


> 4b chekkin in
> 
> as my hair grw longer has seemed to get less  "defined" and more cottony


 
I'ma have to peep at your fotki! This looks really close to my hair. I am 10 months transitioning, and my hair is almost all natural now (due to several trims/cuts)

I really want to get a look at my "naked texture", but I  never just let my hair dry to see what it does. Its always immediately manipulated/product added after washing.


----------



## Hairsofab (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm a 4b all around. I do think the 4 category really is bigger than just 4a 4b. Its pretty rare for me to see someone who has my exact texture. The only one I found here was Shani and there was another poster who was from ghana who lived in the uk  (I really can't remember her name)? I know Nonie is the keeper of all things 4b,but honestly even her pictures don't look like my texture. So I think the 4b category is too broad. Andre's system is good generally but not an absolute system of hairtyping. One 4b may in fact look different than another.


----------



## Tiye (Jun 10, 2010)

loshed said:


> What do you guys think about my hair? 4b or 4a/b? I mostly say I have type 4 hair because I honestly don't know what I should claim. Back when people would say 4bs had zero curl definition I'd think, "okay, 4a/b it is." but now that 4bs can have coils I'm back to being lost. I have 4b because the whole crown of my head doesn't clump at all without product. It's just a cloud. But what is this other stuff? Since it's frizzy, tiny coils is it 4b also?



The original definition of 4b is no regular curl pattern this was to distinguish it from the other type of 4 that is naturally curly. This classification system is incomplete coz obviously there are more than two types of 4 hair. These days a bunch of people are claiming 4b who technically are a better fit for 4a in my opinion coz they have a regular pattern the coils are just smaller and sometimes not even visible to the naked eye but the point is that the regular pattern is there. Anyone remember the line from Pirates of the Caribbean about something that were guidelines rather than regulations - that's the Andre derived hair typing system. It's a guideline to help people know how to care for or match up hair not statutory law.


----------



## Imani (Jun 10, 2010)

Bosinse said:


> I'm a 4b all around. I do think the 4 category really is bigger than just 4a 4b. Its pretty rare for me to see someone who has my exact texture. The only one I found here was Shani and there was another poster who was from ghana who lived in the uk  (I really can't remember her name)? I know Nonie is the keeper of all things 4b*,but honestly even her pictures don't look like my texture*. So I think the 4b category is too broad. Andre's system is good generally but not an absolute system of hairtyping. One 4b may in fact look different than another.



Neither does mine. U would not be able to see my coils in a picture unless I had some super high def resolution camera.  Thats how small some of them are. Its like, I can feel they are there, but if I took a pic, you wouldn't be able to see them.


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## SimJam (Jun 10, 2010)

Imani said:


> I'ma have to peep at your fotki! This looks really close to my hair. I am 10 months transitioning, and my hair is almost all natural now (due to several trims/cuts)
> 
> I really want to get a look at my "naked texture", but I never just let my hair dry to see what it does. Its always immediately manipulated/product added after washing.


 
I just peeped ur fotki and it does seem like our texture is very similar 

hope my hair pics help 
I didnt transition but I think I have some NG pics


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## IWantCurlyHair (Jun 11, 2010)

loshed said:


> What do you guys think about my hair? 4b or 4a/b? I mostly say I have type 4 hair because I honestly don't know what I should claim. Back when people would say 4bs had zero curl definition I'd think, "okay, 4a/b it is." but now that 4bs can have coils I'm back to being lost. I have 4b because the whole crown of my head doesn't clump at all without product. It's just a cloud. But what is this other stuff? Since it's frizzy, tiny coils is it 4b also?


 
your hair is somewhat like mine. It's a bunch of fuzz with tiny coils mixed in. The coils are extra tiny in the back and then they begin to get bigger as 
they go up until the very front of my head where they disapper. It's funny because the coils are only on the left side of my head


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## kizzylonghair (Jun 11, 2010)

I have really enjoyed this thread
There are folks on here claiming to be a 4 (whatever!!) and they are obviously 3(whatever!!) 

Don't want to sound mean but do some people do it out of confusion or because of the wider admiration a 4b gets for growing long hair.

I am DEF 4b and it does feel a little more difficult sometimes and scientifally because of the curl pattern it usual is.
I am not not staying that 3 type dont have thier difficulties to....

I enjoy seeing progress on any type of head, nat or relax or type 
I just LOVE seeing the great progress on a 4B head as I can totally relate it to mine.


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## girlcherokee (Jun 11, 2010)

ok - the more i read this thread the more confused i am.   i'm out - i'm done with hair types.


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## loshed (Jun 12, 2010)

IWantCurlyHair said:


> your hair is somewhat like mine. It's a bunch of fuzz with tiny coils mixed in. The coils are extra tiny in the back and then they begin to get bigger as
> they go up until the very front of my head where they disapper. It's funny because the coils are only on the left side of my head



Yep, "a bunch of fuzz with tiny coils mixed in." perfectly describes my hair except my loosest coils are in the back they get tighter as you go up until you get to the very front which is still coily but will not stay stretched like the back.


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## godzooki (Jun 12, 2010)

Threads like this just get me all confused...I've just been saying I'm a 4a.


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## CocoGlow (Jun 12, 2010)

I'm 4B but my hair does not look exactly like *Nonie's *hair when wet either which tells me *there is no ONE "true" or "pure" example of 4B hair or any other hair type for that matter. *Her coils are very tiny but appear to be visibly clumped from *root to ends* in the pics below .. 

The difference between her texture and what I usually see in 4a hair is the diameter of the coils (4A coils are usually bigger) ... it looks as if maybe 2-4 fine strands are clumping in her hair as opposed to a 4A with possible 5-10 fine strands clumping together forming a larger clumped coil. 

*MY * 4B hair might clump one the very ends in certain sections of my hair but never from root to tip. With *MY *hair, even if I wet a small section but keep it un-maniplated/un-combed/un-stretched, it does not look like this:


Nonie said:


> If I look at a few strands of my 4B hair (like I undid a couple of braids here) after washing and without product this is how they look wet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Nonie said:


> BTW, that is the same section which when a few strands were wet, conditioned and finger-combed ie not raked with a comb looked like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*This is MY 4B hair after after I rinsed a twist-out, hence the appearance of some clumped coils on the ends:*
















*See small clumped coils on the ENDS of my Wash n Go in certain sections*:












* Shrunken Puff:*








*Chunky Fro:*








So while MY 4B hair may not look exactly like *Nonie's* ( I personally think my hair looks more like *Mwedzi's*, but not exactly of course!) the many similarities of our hair outweigh the differences so we can all claim 4B. We have the same size coils but varying densities (amount of hairs on the head) amongst other things. And like Nonie and other 4B's with a little manipulation those tiny coils can easily disappear  into an afro cloud


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## CocoGlow (Jun 12, 2010)

Oh and about the issue of people claiming 4B when they CLEARLY appear to be another hair type may be a little irritating at first b/c you click on their album expecting to see something that looks like your hair OR you click on their regimen video and see that they can do things w/ their that you can't do with your hair, etc....

BUT you can't really blame THEM for getting it wrong - the hair typing systems are confusing for some people and they are not all inclusive to be honest....so since we are ALL left to assign a number + letter to ourselves based on a blurry example photo and a short description paragraph, it's only natural for some to get it wrong, especially in the beginning! 

If someone is ASKING others to tell them their hair type and they think they have a texture other than what they appear to have in the pics, then it's OK to tactfully correct them  - but I don't think it's respectful to put someone on BLAST b/c YOU think they put the wrong hair type in their siggy/avatar! Who are we to do that? The hair typing police? And how do you know you're not wrong about your OWN hair type


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## loved (Aug 21, 2012)

Interesting. Bumping. I think I am a Florida Evans 4z. I had to end that transition thing quickly & go with the BC after 4 months.




βεℓℓα said:


> 4z checking in. Yeah, that's right. 4z. This should be our new catagory on the real.
> 
> You know you're a 4z when:
> 
> ...


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## palindrome (Aug 21, 2012)

I think my hairtype is most akin to naima's on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoM3byK681Y&list=UUJuxOUme2WmuvyCKDKNXeaw&index=9&feature=plcp

it's not the same but it's similar, and she rocks hers so well


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## mahogany_horizons (Feb 18, 2014)

I resurrected this thread from the dead, because I have so many textures in my hair and I'm trying to deal with them all.

It seems that just my edges are 4 B.  But the rest of the hair on my head seems to be a 3c/4a mix (maybe a little 3 b in my kitchen area).

This thread has got me better able to type my hair, and I am still coming to the same conclusion that I came to prior to reading this thread.

I guess what I want to know is, is there a coarse 3c hair type?  Because my hair does wave up with water and I can tie it down.  But, unless I put water in my hair daily, it doesn't look slick or shiny like other folks hair.  It actually resembles 4b hair, because it doesn't have luster.  It looks dryer if that makes sense.  Dry and curly.

But it isn't cottony either.  But, it wouldn't have any gloss or shine if I didn't put products in it, just the dry waves.  Does that make sense?

But the 3c folks that I see on this board seem to have glossiness to their curls that I do not have.

This is also confusing for me because my hair is fine.  But it's not shiny either.  Maybe I just need to find the right products.  I'm wondering if those 4b edges of mine need a whole separate regimen apart from the one I use on the rest of my hair.

I'm asking this for the sake of learning products to use as I transition, I'm not hung up on hair type.

And, gelling down my edges is working, but I wish so badly that my hair was one consistent type!


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## Holla (Feb 18, 2014)

mahogany_horizons said:


> I resurrected this thread from the dead, because I have so many textures in my hair and I'm trying to deal with them all.
> 
> It seems that just my edges are 4 B. But the rest of the hair on my head seems to be a 3c/4a mix (maybe a little 3 b in my kitchen area).
> 
> ...


 

Is your hair high porosity? When the hair cuticle is flat and sealed, the hair looks shiny. I think I am low porosity (still trying to figure this porosity stuff out myself).


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## mahogany_horizons (Feb 18, 2014)

Nonie said:


> Your hair reminds me a lot of my hair. Like I said earlier in this thread or the other one, my new growth felt rough and hard. It also felt that way when I used products like butters. It's not been like that since I went natural and cut back on products to only use S Curl. In fact when I have no products on my hair, while it may feel dry to one used to feeling moist hair, it is very soft. It is particularly this softness that makes me forever afflicted with HIH. Remember I have NO products in my braided hair. I also think my hair "became soft" after I started DCing so learned how to have moisturized hair even if not coated in moisture.
> 
> Also my hair never looks wet when wet unless I take a few strands so you can see water glistening on them. This hair is dripping wet:
> 
> ...




I know this is old, but thank you for your post.  Your nape looks a lot like my edges, and one very stray patch of curls I have that grow a little longer right below my "kitchen".  It's helpful to know.


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## mahogany_horizons (Feb 18, 2014)

Holla said:


> Is your hair high porosity? When the hair cuticle is flat and sealed, the hair looks shiny. I think I am low porosity (still trying to figure this porosity stuff out myself).



How would I know this?  Is it that strand test?  

If so I'm going to try to do that today.

I will look up porosity on this board, I'm sure there are some threads.

Thanks Holla.


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## PinkSunshine77 (Feb 18, 2014)

It's funny because all this time before going natural, I was claiming 4B and now that i can actually see my hair strands minus the relaxed ends, my hair is clearly 4A.


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## Holla (Feb 19, 2014)

mahogany_horizons said:


> How would I know this? Is it that strand test?
> 
> If so I'm going to try to do that today.
> 
> ...


 
mahogany_horizons -- yes.  you are supposed to take several strands and put them in a cup of water. If it floats, you are low porosity. If they sink immediately, you are high porosity.  Do search on here as well as google it.  There are some threads dedicated to each hair type.


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## BonBon (Feb 19, 2014)

Tis funny when I sent my hair off to hair analysis they typed me as 3c with some 4a LOL.

 I'm still claiming 4a/b.

 When I collected my hair I did see that quite a lot of my hairs were S shaped rather than coiled, but they are so ridiculously small  compared to most 3Cs that I don't feel claiming that would help me in any way.

 I look for fine haired type 4s for tips specifically.


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