# Rick Ross on Lift Every Voice (BET)



## hair_rehab (May 24, 2009)

Did anyone catch that show this morning? I saw the previews yesterday and I was curious and confused about why he would be on a gospel program??


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## chicacanella (May 25, 2009)

Girl I have no idea! I don't have cable but you know, it is BET. SMH.


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## PaperClip (May 25, 2009)

I saw Fantasia on Bobby Jones Gospel recently and she sang w/more passion (versus production) than some of the so-called "gospel" artists

So what's the question?


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## ILYandY (May 25, 2009)

Here you go 

http://globalgrind.com/source/www.h...-ross-says-he-is-able-to-forgive-50-cent-and/


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## Highly Favored8 (May 25, 2009)

I was going to post about this. Interesting. Very Interesting.


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## Highly Favored8 (May 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I saw Fantasia on Bobby Jones Gospel recently and she sang w/more passion (versus production) than some of the so-called "gospel" artists
> 
> So what's the question?


 

I think the question the OP was asking was Did any one see the show with Rick Ross? If I am wrong forgive me.


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## PaperClip (May 25, 2009)

Highly Favored8 said:


> I think the question the OP was asking was Did any one see the show with Rick Ross? If I am wrong forgive me.


 
Maybe so... probably so... but the inclusion of "curious and confused about why he would be on a gospel program??" is what prompted my response.


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## meka (May 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Maybe so... probably so... but the inclusion of "curious and confused about why he would be on a gospel program??" is what prompted my response.


 

Foxy girl, I love you...you be on IT!!!

But yeah, I read it like "what in the heck is HE doing on there, he is NOT saved".......


I don't listen to his music so I don't know what he raps about but, hey that's between him and God.


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## PaperClip (May 25, 2009)

meka said:


> Foxy girl, I love you...you be on IT!!!
> 
> But yeah, I read it like "what in the heck is HE doing on there, he is NOT saved".......
> 
> ...


 
I don't listen to his music, either... don't know who he is or what his hook is about that gives him any noteriety....

It's sort of the Mary Mary thread in reverse.... People getting boxed into categories that they may not have volunteered to be in.... or, in this case, Rick Ross may be having a spiritual change and this appearance is the start of his spiritual makeover...but he keeps getting pulled and/or pushed back into the old ways...if that is his story....

Dave Hollister is one recent example: he used to sing with Backstreet.... He got saved or came back to the Lord and now he sings gospel.... Maybe his appearances on gospel shows got the same kind of questions....


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## Highly Favored8 (May 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Maybe so... probably so... but the inclusion of "curious and confused about why he would be on a gospel program??" is what prompted my response.


 

IDK I mean so much drama between him and 50 cent. Rick Ross is prob.trying to stop the drama and reach out to him.


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## Highly Favored8 (May 25, 2009)

meka said:


> Foxy girl, I love you...you be on IT!!!
> 
> But yeah, I read it like "what in the heck is HE doing on there, he is NOT saved".......
> 
> ...


 

I did not know he is not saved? I mean do you know if he is saved?


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## Highly Favored8 (May 25, 2009)

I am not even going to speculate about if Rick Ross is saved or not b/c IDK. However, I am happy that he is trying to reach out to 50 cent. I liked the fact he spoke about forgivness.


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## meka (May 25, 2009)

Highly Favored8 said:


> I did not know he is not saved? I mean do you know if he is saved?


 

I dont know if he is or not. I said, based on the first few responses in this thread, most people felt he had no business being on the show b/c he is not saved or does not "fit" or look like he is.


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## PaperClip (May 25, 2009)

Does Fiddy watch "Lift Every Voice"?


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## Highly Favored8 (May 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Does Fiddy watch "Lift Every Voice"?


 

IDK what 50 cent watches. However, where Rick Ross is concerned then prob. so. However, I do not like to make assumptions.


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## Country gal (May 25, 2009)

Thanks for letting me know.


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## momi (May 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I saw Fantasia on Bobby Jones Gospel recently and she sang w/more passion (versus production) than some of the so-called "gospel" artists
> 
> So what's the question?


 
Maybe because he is not a gospel singer???  I think it is a legit question.


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## PaperClip (May 25, 2009)

momi said:


> Maybe because he is not a gospel singer??? I think it is a legit question.


 
And what defines a gospel singer? The kinds of songs included on a CD? The person who says they are a gospel singer? A person who has not said they are a gospel singer but have put out gospel albums? And exactly what is a gospel album? Is that based on the record company? The kinds of songs on a CD? 

Who has the right/authority to say that Rick Ross is or is not a gospel singer?


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## Hotmommak (May 25, 2009)

Dang!!!  She just asked why a RAPPER, who does not rap about god, or too many positive/good things, was on a gospel program.  She didn't say the show needed to be canceled or that anyone was going to hell b/c he was on there!  Lighten up a little, peeps!

Also, I find the question as to whether or not 50 watches the show to be legit b/c why would rick ross be on there to make amends with 50????  Anywhoo...I hope that it is something like what Foxy said, and he is reaching out to God...that would be good.


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## momi (May 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Does Fiddy watch "Lift Every Voice"?


 

I doubt it - but you never know!


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## momi (May 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> And what defines a gospel singer? The kinds of songs included on a CD? The person who says they are a gospel singer? A person who has not said they are a gospel singer but have put out gospel albums? And exactly what is a gospel album? Is that based on the record company? The kinds of songs on a CD?
> 
> *Who has the right/authority to say that Rick Ross is or is not a gospel singer?[/*quote]
> 
> ...


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## PaperClip (May 25, 2009)

momi said:


> FoxyScholar said:
> 
> 
> > And what defines a gospel singer? The kinds of songs included on a CD? The person who says they are a gospel singer? A person who has not said they are a gospel singer but have put out gospel albums? And exactly what is a gospel album? Is that based on the record company? The kinds of songs on a CD?
> ...


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## momi (May 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> momi said:
> 
> 
> > One song defines a music artist's entire portfolio? One song defines a music artist's spirituality?
> ...


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## Laela (May 25, 2009)

I dare not say Rick Ross isn't saved or that he's not a Christian, because I don't know that. That's between him and God. I dare not say Mary, Mary isn't saved and they are not Christians. But there's a powerful chapter in Matthew that helps guide us. It also can address what I think this thread is probably concerning:

*
Matthew 7* 
Verses 17-18: _ A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit.  _

Just the same, not everyone who is saved or lives a Christian life is guaranteed a place in Heaven:

Verse 21:
_Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter."  _

This entire chapter in Matthew is a good read; but I don't think the OP's question was ill-intentioned. God isn't one to be mocked, you either serve him or you don't. What's on the inside always works its way outward, if God truly is in control of a person's life.  I don't like to see "artists" use God's name only when it's convenient -- in this case, to quell a beef -- then continue (or go right back back to) singing songs that don't edify God. 

I had a similar argument with a friend about "categories" and, I agree with you that music (though there are genres) shouldn't be so easily categorized. Music is universal.

Still we should praise him in all things, not just in some, or when it is convenient for us. I just saw the clip and I know who Rick Ross is and I've heard his music before. I was surprised to see him on the show, too. 





FoxyScholar said:


> One song defines a music artist's entire portfolio? One song defines a music artist's spirituality?
> 
> It's the Mary Mary thread in reverse.
> 
> I'm not defending Rick Ross. As I said upthread: I don't know this entertainer or what makes him notable. But the presumptions around labeling has to stop. It's misleading and intrusive.


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## Laela (May 25, 2009)

Momi, I guess I was writing/editing my response around the time you were. 

Very good Scriptures!


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## PaperClip (May 25, 2009)

momi said:


> FoxyScholar said:
> 
> 
> > What is misleading and intrusive is having an artist that is living a life contrary to what God has called us to. It sends the wrong signal to a new convert or immature Christian who may tune in:
> ...


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## pearlygurl (May 25, 2009)

To answer your question OP...here is the synopsis of the show from bet.com

The all new *LIFT EVERY VOICE* is a half-hour program featuring insightful testimonies from some of *mainstream *and Gospel’s biggest and brightest stars. The show focuses on the guests' journeys with the Lord in their everyday life. The show also provides an opportunity for our guests to advise others who are living similar experiences on how they can use faith to overcome adversities. 

http://www.bet.com/OnTV/BETShows/liftvoice/default.htm

According to this description, finding someone like Rick Ross on this show wouldn't be out the norm.


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## PaperClip (May 26, 2009)

pearlygurl said:


> To answer your question OP...here is the synopsis of the show from bet.com
> 
> The all new *LIFT EVERY VOICE* is a half-hour program featuring insightful testimonies from some of *mainstream *and Gospel’s biggest and brightest stars. The show focuses on the guests' journeys with the Lord in their everyday life. The show also provides an opportunity for our guests to advise others who are living similar experiences on how they can use faith to overcome adversities.
> 
> ...


 
Well... this information addresses several points in this thread....

It's interesting though.... this show blurs the line between the secular and sacred.... which could be a good or bad thing.... So if a new or weak Christian sees their favorite MAINSTREAM artist on this show "advising others who are living similar experiences on how they can use faith to overcome adversities", where's the line between living a sacred versus a secular life? Is it a mixed message when one's favorite MAINSTREAM artist has a song with the lyrics "Cock cock ya legs Let me hitcha from the back" but yet they are on this show advising others about how to apply faith to a situation.... Mainstream artists have faith, too? Hmmmm....

Interesting....


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## Laela (May 26, 2009)

pearlygurl said:


> To answer your question OP...here is the synopsis of the show from bet.com
> 
> The all new *LIFT EVERY VOICE* is a half-hour program featuring insightful testimonies from some of *mainstream *and Gospel’s biggest and brightest stars. The show focuses on the guests' journeys with the Lord in their everyday life. The show also provides an opportunity for our guests to advise others who are living similar experiences on how they can use faith to overcome adversities.
> 
> ...



Therein lies the danger to shows like that. Not everything we watch on TV is good for our spiritual lives. A young child not living in a Christian environment would watch that show and think that we can live a secular life and still please God, so long as we acknowledge him in some way...._ 'I'd like to thank God, my mother and my family for this award'...._


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## inthepink (May 26, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Well... this information addresses several points in this thread....
> 
> It's interesting though.... this show blurs the line between the secular and sacred.... which could be a good or bad thing.... So if a new or weak Christian sees their favorite MAINSTREAM artist on this show "advising others who are living similar experiences on how they can use faith to overcome adversities", where's the line between living a sacred versus a secular life? Is it a mixed message when one's favorite MAINSTREAM artist has a song with the lyrics "Cock cock ya legs Let me hitcha from the back" but yet they are on this show advising others about how to apply faith to a situation.... Mainstream artists have faith, too? Hmmmm....
> 
> Interesting....



See, this is where I'd have an issue with it.  It kind of sends a mixed message of what it means to be a Christian.  Be a Christian and don't make any changes.  Some things are just obviously not glorifying God.


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## inthepink (May 26, 2009)

Laela said:


> Therein lies the danger to shows like that. Not everything we watch on TV is good for our spiritual lives. A young child not living in a Christian environment would watch that show and think that we can live a secular life and still please God, so long as we acknowledge him in some way...._ 'I'd like to thank God, my mother and my family for this award'...._



You should be able to do double Thanks!


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## PaperClip (May 26, 2009)

Laela said:


> Therein lies the danger to shows like that. Not everything we watch on TV is good for our spiritual lives. A young child not living in a Christian environment would watch that show and think that we can live a secular life and still please God, so long as we acknowledge him in some way...._ 'I'd like to thank God, my mother and my family for this award'...._


 


hairlove said:


> See, this is where I'd have an issue with it. It kind of sends a mixed message of what it means to be a Christian. Be a Christian and don't make any changes. Some things are just obviously not glorifying God.



There are several errors around this issue. Here are two:

1. the expectation of a CABLE TV SHOW on a QUESTIONABLE NETWORK (such as BET... their track record leaves much to be desired) to present an "authentic" platform for the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

2. the unrealistic/unprovoked expectation of musical artists to be the total representative of saved Christians. That's like you (general use of the term) being the only person of color on your job and the White folk think you represent the totality of the African American disapora. That's not a label you asked for...just like some of these gospel artists are not embracing the label of "gospel artist" because of the connotations and expectations around that label.


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## Laela (May 26, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> There are several errors around this issue. Here are two:
> 
> 1. the expectation of a CABLE TV SHOW on a QUESTIONABLE NETWORK (such as BET... their track record leaves much to be desired) to present an "authentic" platform for the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
> 
> 2. the unrealistic/unprovoked expectation of musical artists to be the total representative of saved Christians. That's like you (general use of the term) being the only person of color on your job and the White folk think you represent the totality of the African American disapora. That's not a label you asked for...just like some of these gospel artists are not embracing the label of "gospel artist" because of the connotations and expectations around that label.




Those are two good points. But just like Jesus showed his righteous indignation toward those who used his father's temple as a marketplace, we as Christians should never think some things are just OK or do or say nothing about it.

I don't expect any one person to represent all saved Christians, but I do expect anyone who profess to live for God to represent him. 

Should Christians demand that the show not air because of a false platform? Perhaps. I feel that for some people watching, this show could be the closest they'll get to going to church.


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## PaperClip (May 26, 2009)

Laela said:


> Those are two good points. But just like Jesus showed his righteous indignation toward those who used his father's temple as a marketplace, we as Christians should never think some things are just OK or do or say nothing about it.
> 
> I don't expect any one person to represent all saved Christians, but I do expect anyone who profess to live for God to represent him.
> 
> Should Christians demand that the show not air because of a false platform? Perhaps. I feel that for some people watching, this show could be the closest they'll get to going to church.


 
Please let's not misapply principles from the Word. Righteous indignation against a PRACTICE of preventing others from worship is different from pointing fingers/accusations (judgement?) against ONE PERSON with whom we have no place/evidence to question their spirituality.

As I said upthread, these criticisms are misdirected. But, it appears that Rick and this show are being true to what they say they are. The show says they book both mainstream and gospel artists. True to what they said. Rick Ross has not labeled himself as a gospel artist so why/how should he be questioned about his faith when maybe we don't know what his faith is?

And say Rick has professed Christ but still sings his lyrics "Cock cock ya legs Let me hitcha from the back".... Wow... where's the wisdom to minister in the midst of that? He who winneth souls is wise.

You ask if Christians should demand the show not air.... Now wouldn't that be perfect.... I think time is better spent ministering DIRECTLY to souls.... and it's condescending to assume that people aren't discerning enough to recognize that there's more than this show as a source for church.


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## divya (May 26, 2009)

Well, _entertainment_ is the goal of BET, and even the synopsis of this show reflects that. The mixed messages are likely not problematic for those who run this program. Not surprised at all...


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## Evolving78 (May 26, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> And what defines a gospel singer? The kinds of songs included on a CD? The person who says they are a gospel singer? A person who has not said they are a gospel singer but have put out gospel albums? And exactly what is a gospel album? Is that based on the record company? The kinds of songs on a CD?
> 
> Who has the right/authority to say that Rick Ross is or is not a gospel singer?



that man is not a singer/rapper of "The Good News"! lol!  he is a secular rapper who talks about sex, selling drugs, violence, and living the good street life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDnw_SPfMxM


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## TrustMeLove (May 26, 2009)

Wow! 

Now we can't even try to identify our borthers and sisters in Christ. Amazing.

Stop the maddness. Now, I don't know Rick Ross's personal relationship with Christ. I do know that I don't consider him a brother. I do know that I wouldn't seek his advice on spiritual matters. 

I am sure we all have a checklist that pops up immeditately for recognizing and identifying those who are Christians. Some of those folks who we identify may turn out to be wovles in sheep clothing....but we are forever watchful and ready to receive something new about the person at a moments notice. I've had friends who identified as Christian and who I felt were Christian who no longer are...they stopped identifying themselves that way.. 

I'm not going to front or try to sound all spiritual. It's just a fact. Not everyone who says Lord Lord..do I believe is a Christian. I am looking at your actions..I am looking at the fruit you bear. If it doesn't line up with the word I don't identify with you as a brother or sister in Christ.

Now, will I go as far to make a judgement about your salvation. NO NO NO! My mind does't even go that far, but I don't recognize you as my brother or my sister PERIOD. 

Rick can believe Jesus is the Christ...I don't know...but his actions and his music say differently.


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## momi (May 26, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> Wow!
> 
> Now we can't even try to identify our borthers and sisters in Christ. Amazing.
> 
> ...


 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Some things just make sense.  Good grief.


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## Laela (May 27, 2009)

When it comes to standing up for what's right, the principles of the Word can never be misapplied, IMHO.  It's not my intention to judge nor point fingers..again, I don't know the man's spirituality. But he is using a certain platform...and that was the basis of my observation.  



FoxyScholar said:


> Please let's not misapply principles from the Word. Righteous indignation against a PRACTICE of preventing others from worship is different from pointing fingers/accusations (judgement?) against ONE PERSON with whom we have no place/evidence to question their spirituality.
> 
> As I said upthread, these criticisms are misdirected. But, it appears that Rick and this show are being true to what they say they are. The show says they book both mainstream and gospel artists. True to what they said. Rick Ross has not labeled himself as a gospel artist so why/how should he be questioned about his faith when maybe we don't know what his faith is?


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

Laela said:


> When it comes to standing up for what's right, the principles of the Word can never be misapplied, IMHO. It's not my intention to judge nor point fingers..again, I don't know the man's spirituality. But he is using a certain platform...and that was the basis of my observation.


 
Since humans can misinterpret the Word of God, misinterpretation leads to misapplication.

Again, based on this show's platform (booking both mainstream and gospel artists), and what he is said to have done (talk about forgiveness, a major biblical principle), where's the error? Why the criticism?


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## momi (May 27, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Since humans can misinterpret the Word of God, misinterpretation leads to misapplication.
> 
> Again, based on this show's platform (booking both mainstream and gospel artists), and what he is said to have done (talk about forgiveness, a major biblical principle), where's the error? Why the criticism?


 

I was not aware of the shows platform, however even if that is the case CocoBrother was asking him questions about forgiveness and how it relates to his faith.  This is where I find a problem - Rick Ross should not be responding to questions about the Christian Faith like he is some sort of leader or great example for that matter.  The bible speaks against making a place at the head of the table for someone just because of their status - which I am assuming is why he was even asked to be on the show.  I think most of us can agree that it was not because of his Christian character.


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## momi (May 27, 2009)

Laela said:


> *When it comes to standing up for what's right, the principles of the Word can never be misapplied, IMHO*. It's not my intention to judge nor point fingers..again, I don't know the man's spirituality. But he is using a certain platform...and that was the basis of my observation.


 
I agree - it is not that complicated.

Also - The bible says that we are to judge those who are within the faith and leave God to judge those who are not of the faith.  Rick Ross is claiming to be within the faith so we are to look at his life (ie fruit) after we are certain that the beam has been removed from our eyes to see clearly...


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## Laela (May 27, 2009)

Hmmmm... OK, well, I'll revisit the show's platform again:

"The all new LIFT EVERY VOICE is a half-hour program featuring insightful testimonies from some of mainstream and Gospel’s biggest and brightest stars. *The show focuses on the guests' journeys with the Lord in their everyday life.* The show also provides an opportunity _for our guests to advise others who are living similar experiences on how they can use faith to overcome adversities. _"  

That sounds like a show for Believers to me. I don't know where we got that "mainstream" equals unsaved; so it's condescending for us to assume because an artist is mainstream they are not saved. However, we can only go by what a person opens their mouth to say or profess, whether they are a mainstream or gospel artist.  

And why not rebuke or reprove? If anyone says he/'she is a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, they've identified themselves as members of the Body of Christ, and, as such, are opened to being rebuked by his/her brothers and sisters in Christ should their actions not line up with what they say/profess. It's that simple. Momi hit the nail right dead on the head with this. We as Christians have the right to speak up.

Rebuking isn't necessarily a bad thing. For one who is discerning and accepts rebuke is wise. Rebuking also is *not *the same thing as judging, criticizing or condemning. 

If it quacks like a duck.... that's all we're saying.









FoxyScholar said:


> Again, based on this show's platform (booking both mainstream and gospel artists), and what he is said to have done (talk about forgiveness, a major biblical principle), where's the error? Why the criticism?


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

Laela said:


> Hmmmm... OK, well, I'll revisit the show's platform again:
> 
> "The all new LIFT EVERY VOICE is a half-hour program featuring insightful testimonies from some of mainstream and Gospel’s biggest and brightest stars. *The show focuses on the guests' journeys with the Lord in their everyday life.* The show also provides an opportunity _for our guests to advise others who are living similar experiences on how they can use faith to overcome adversities. _"
> 
> ...


 
Believers? This show sounds like it is for believers? Ok.... Well, I suppose that could make sense. A person can believe that Jesus Christ exists but that doesn't mean that Jesus Christ is Lord of their life.

Again, the expectations for this show to be some kind of evangelistic tool are unrealistic and in error because the show's description says nothing of the kind. If anything, it's an ENTERTAINMENT show that invites ENTERTAINERS to talk about their "journey" with the Lord.... their journey, I'm speculating, means their experiences, encounters, etc.

The fact that the show's description distinguishes "gospel" from "mainstream" is an indication that there is a difference, separate from gospel...worldly...secular...non-gospel. Gospel as a (music) genre is NOT considered mainstream.

The Bible is very clear that the saints are to DEFEND the faith. These criticisms aren't defensive but OFFENSIVE because of INCONSISTENCY. 

Like I said before, it's the Mary Mary thread in reverse.

Anybody can sing a song with gospel lyrics. Because Mary Mary sings gospel, it is presumed that they are saved and therefore they must be rebuked because of what they wear and who they are associated with.

Rick Ross appears on a so-called "gospel" program but because he has explicit song lyrics, it is presumed that he's not saved and therefore he must be rebuked for perpetrating a fraud for appearing on a gospel show talking about forgiveness.`

In both cases, this spiritual "policing" veiled as "righteous rebuking" is underhanded and unproductive.


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## Highly Favored8 (May 27, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Believers? This show sounds like it is for believers? Ok.... Well, I suppose that could make sense. A person can believe that Jesus Christ exists but that doesn't mean that Jesus Christ is Lord of their life.
> 
> Again, the expectations for this show to be some kind of evangelistic tool are unrealistic and in error because the show's description says nothing of the kind. If anything, it's an ENTERTAINMENT show that invites ENTERTAINERS to talk about their "journey" with the Lord.... their journey, I'm speculating, means their experiences, encounters, etc.
> 
> ...


 
ITA with you on this. I wish I could hit the Thanks button.


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## Browndilocks (May 27, 2009)

Thank you Laela and Moni for not acting naive or indifferent for argument's sake... it is NOT that complicated.  Doesn't matter what he truly believes. Just gotta look at the fruit... 

*Fudge* a *Ninja*... Money make me Come... 

We got grams in this *Sheet*girl, come and get u some
Money make me come, money money make me come


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## Laela (May 27, 2009)

God -- or anyone or anything that uses God as a platform -- is NOT entertainment and should never been seen as such. 

I feel sad that anyone would even think that. And why can't this show be used as an evangelical tool? God reaches us through all avenues, even this show that is thought so lightly of.  Like I said before, you never know what person is trying to reach to God and this show just might be the avenue to get their attention.  Sure, they can go to church. Sure there are Christians they run into every day. God deals with each of us differently. It's unfortunate you discount this show as a possible way for God to reach people.

I don't know Mary Mary... I don't know Rick Ross. But if their fruit doesn't line up with the Word of God, they have to deal with whatever comes their way -- from Christians or non-Christians alike. Call me silly, but if someone says they're "walking with the Lord"...it's very clear they more than just believe he exists. 



FoxyScholar said:


> Believers? This show sounds like it is for believers? Ok.... Well, I suppose that could make sense. A person can believe that Jesus Christ exists but that doesn't mean that Jesus Christ is Lord of their life.
> 
> Again, the expectations for this show to be some kind of evangelistic tool are unrealistic and in error because the show's description says nothing of the kind. If anything, it's an ENTERTAINMENT show that invites ENTERTAINERS to talk about their "journey" with the Lord.... their journey, I'm speculating, means their experiences, encounters, etc.
> 
> The fact that the show's description distinguishes "gospel" from "mainstream" is an indication that there is a difference, separate from gospel...worldly...secular...non-gospel. Gospel as a (music) genre is NOT considered mainstream.





I agree.  
And I saw quite a few in the MaryMary thread and in this one defend it well.


FoxyScholar said:


> The Bible is very clear that the saints are to DEFEND the faith.






This is just your opinion and you're entitled to it. I've tried to explain my position the best I could. In our brief exchanges you've accused me of being "condescending" "offense" "inconsistent" "underhanded" and "unproductive". I'm not sure what to think at this point, but I'm not so easily offended. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.  God Bless.


FoxyScholar said:


> These criticisms aren't defensive but OFFENSIVE because of INCONSISTENCY.
> 
> In both cases, this spiritual "policing" veiled as "righteous rebuking" is underhanded and unproductive.


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## divya (May 27, 2009)

Laela said:


> God -- or anyone or anything that uses God as a platform -- is NOT entertainment and should never been seen as such.



*EXACTLY*...and since BET clearly states that it is an entertainment network, it is no surprise that this kind of thing is going on. Just because the network slaps "God" on a program does not make it so. These programs can lead to people falsely believing that one can be "worldly" and "Godly" at the same time. It is up to us as Christians to decide whether we are going to support these types of programs that do not live up to Biblical instruction. 

*1 John 2:15-17* (KJV) -_ Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever._


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

Laela said:


> God -- or anyone or anything that uses God as a platform -- is NOT entertainment and should never been seen as such.
> 
> What's the name of this "god" you speak of? Has BET clarified which "god" they are talking about?
> 
> ...


 
I called those sentiments condescending. I offered context for the inconsistencies of those criticisms offensive, underhanded, and unproductive. It's not "just" my opinion. I've not called you or anyone else outside of your/their name, nature, or character.


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## divya (May 27, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> What's the name of this "god" you speak of? Has BET clarified which "god" they are talking about?
> 
> Aha! Actually, according to the description: (The show also provides an opportunity for our guests to advise others who are living similar experiences on how they can use faith to overcome adversities. ") What "FAITH" are they talking about? Faith in whom/what? Is it a given that they are referring to Jesus Christ? Or is that an assumption (on everyone's part)?



It seems clear _which_ God they are speaking of when this program airs on Sunday when the majority of Christians attend church services and so many of the guests are gospel artists. Not to mention the church announcement segments by a well-known Christian reverend. It's highly unlikely that Muslims or Hindus etc. would be confused.



FoxyScholar said:


> Then you need to take that message and concerns to BET and other TV/cable networks and every record company who records gospel music or sings/buys tickets to gospel (music) concerts and gospel music websites. They seem to be unashamed and unapologetic about the purposes of their work. Evangelism may be their ultimate goal, but the entertainment factor, which is very present in gospel music, is part of the draw.... I understand that some of those gospel music artists would not want to admit/confess to that.



It is absolutely fine for her and other LHCF members to discuss the issue here in the Christian forum. Why must she_ "take that message and concerns to BET and other TV/cable networks and every record company who records gospel music or sings/buys tickets to gospel (music) concerts and gospel music websites"_? Maybe the Lord has other ways in which He would like to use her time.  





FoxyScholar said:


> It's the SOVEREIGNTY of the LORD JESUS CHRIST that does the work and gives the increase. Not a TV show. Why? Because no one avenue is perfect or reliable. But as the Lord sees fit to make that divine connection occur to bring someone into a place of peace, deliverance, freedom, salvation, etc. Amen. I do not discount the show, but I don't depend on the show, either. And WOW!!! LOL! (Shocked laugh!) That's exactly it! I don't depend on this show at all mainly because this show, according to the description) is not trying to be an evangelistic tool! What I'm saying is that regardless of who appears on the show, I don't determine a person's salvation/spirituality by their appearance on the show. Let's please stay focused on the issue at hand that was designated in the first post of this thread, which was this: WHY IS RICK ROSS ON THIS SHOW? My response was this: what's the problem/issue with him being on this show?



What does asking why Rick Ross is on the show have to do with determining a person's salvation/spirituality?


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

divya said:


> It seems clear _which_ God they are speaking of when this program airs on Sunday when the majority of Christians attend church services and so many of the guests are gospel artists. Not to mention the church announcement segments by a well-known Christian reverend. It's highly unlikely that Muslims or Hindus etc. would be confused.
> 
> There seems to be a conflict: this TV show is not required to be explict but Rick Ross is expected to be very explicit about his faith/spirituality?
> 
> ...


 
I graciously suggest a perusal of the thread to inform your inquiry, particularly the posts around the expectations of this particular BET program. One poster kindly noted the show's description as a show that books both mainstream and gospel artists, which seemed to conflict with the notion that every guest that's booked on this show should be a Christian/saved, etc.


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## divya (May 27, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> There seems to be a conflict: this TV show is not required to be explict but Rick Ross is expected to be very explicit about his faith/spirituality?
> 
> I graciously suggest a perusal of the thread to inform your inquiry, particularly the posts around the expectations of this particular BET program. One poster kindly noted the show's description as a show that books both mainstream and gospel artists, which seemed to conflict with the notion that every guest that's booked on this show should be a Christian/saved, etc.



I have already read enough of the thread, thanks. Please see my first post if you have any questions as to my understanding of the show's description. My questions and comments are the same.


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

divya said:


> I have already read enough of the thread, thanks. Please see my first post if you have any questions as to my understanding of the show's description. My questions and comments are the same.


 
So noted and likewise.


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## divya (May 27, 2009)

Another verse that comes to mind regarding the show in general...

*Matthew 6:24* - _No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon._


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## divya (May 27, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> There seems to be a conflict: this TV show is not required to be explict but Rick Ross is expected to be very explicit about his faith/spirituality?



That was your question. In your previous post, you asked whether or not BET has specified which God is being discussed.

My response is that which God seems clear, for reasons mentioned. However, as mentioned earlier, the show sends out a mixed message. As for Rick Ross, the Scriptures tell us "ye shall know them by their fruits." (Matt 7). There is no conflict.



FoxyScholar said:


> Sigh.... I have to be mindful of the loss in translation that is the internet/message forums. My statement was not a command but a way to emphasize where energies might be better directed in terms of the criticisms that have been put forth around this issue. I sincerely hope that my statements do not cultivate an ultrasensitivity.



Can you clarify what exactly was the purpose of stating that _"then you need to take that message and concerns to BET and other TV/cable networks and every record company who records gospel music or sings/buys tickets to gospel (music) concerts and gospel music websites"?_

The question was regarding this particular show.


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## Laela (May 27, 2009)

Since you asked, I'll answer: I had used an upper case "G" when I mentioned God...so it's obvious whom I speak of. Your attempt to be facetious doesn't bode well here.

Coco Brother has declared himself a Child of God.. Saved. I listen to his radio show occasionally and he is doing his part in drawing others -- mainly young people -- to Christ. Since he's on this show, it carries some weight IMO. 


FoxyScholar said:


> What's the name of this "god" you speak of? Has BET clarified which "god" they are talking about?
> 
> Aha! Actually, according to the description: (The show also provides an opportunity for our guests to advise others who are living similar experiences on how they can use faith to overcome adversities. ") What "FAITH" are they talking about? Faith in whom/what? Is it a given that they are referring to Jesus Christ? Or is that an assumption (on everyone's part)?




Now .. this is a condescending sentiment. This is a Christian forum. I am a Christian and I feel I should be able to freely express my beliefs, statements about anything dealing with Christianity in this forum, without being told by any member where to go do that.  




FoxyScholar said:


> Then you need to take that message and concerns to BET and other TV/cable networks and every record company who records gospel music or sings/buys tickets to gospel (music) concerts and gospel music websites. They seem to be unashamed and unapologetic about the purposes of their work. Evangelism may be their ultimate goal, but the entertainment factor, which is very present in gospel music,* is part of the draw....* I understand that some of those gospel music artists would not want to admit/confess to that.



I've never watched the show... I saw the clip. And we have been focused on the issue at hand the whole time. The OP asked why is he on the show. You asked what the problem/issue with him being on the show it. Some of us explained what we think the issue is, from a Believer's standpoint, and you decided it was criticism/judgment. Rick and the Show are the two common denominators. So no, we're not evading the issue at hand. It had been addressed a long time. We're just going in circles now.  



FoxyScholar said:


> It's the SOVEREIGNTY of the LORD JESUS CHRIST that does the work and gives the increase. Not a TV show. Why? Because no one avenue is perfect or reliable. But as the Lord sees fit to make that divine connection occur to bring someone into a place of peace, deliverance, freedom, salvation, etc. Amen. I do not discount the show, but I don't depend on the show, either. And WOW!!! LOL! (Shocked laugh!) That's exactly it! I don't depend on this show at all mainly because this show, according to the description) is not trying to be an evangelistic tool! What I'm saying is that regardless of who appears on the show, I don't determine a person's salvation/spirituality by their appearance on the show. Let's please stay focused on the issue at hand that was designated in the first post of this thread, which was this: WHY IS RICK ROSS ON THIS SHOW? My response was this: what's the problem/issue with him being on this show?



He who have ears to hear, let him hear.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God..... I am to assume those are cliche's as well. One can't praise God too many times, no matter how "tired or cliche'd it sounds"



FoxyScholar said:


> LOL! "Walking with the Lord"? What does that mean? Another Christian cliche! LOL! There's a million of 'em and anybody who's been in the (Black) church for any amount of time can learn those cliches. "When I think of the goodness of Jesus, and ALLLLLL He's done for me, my soul cries out "Hallelujah!" Thank God for saving me!" Another cliche!!!! And sure, a person who says that may be so sincere and truly embrace that sentiment but I've also seen such cliches overused as a hook to get the folk excited.... Ok....
> 
> As was said upthread: where's the fruit? Rick Ross on this BET gospel program talking about forgiveness... that could be fruit....



And so you're making an observation of his life, based on this one action? Hmmmmm.... How ironic.


FoxyScholar said:


> As was said upthread: where's the fruit? Rick Ross on this BET gospel program talking about forgiveness... that could be fruit....


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## Laela (May 27, 2009)

Yes, a lot can be lost in translation on the Internet/message. No ultrasensitivity here, but I do hope you see and understand that well-intentioned efforts to "emphasize" where anyone directs their energies or suggestions that people "stop" doing/saying certain things could all get lost in translation.



FoxyScholar said:


> Sigh.... I have to be mindful of the loss in translation that is the internet/message forums. My statement was not a command but a way to emphasize where energies might be better directed in terms of the criticisms that have been put forth around this issue. I sincerely hope that my statements do not cultivate an ultrasensitivity.


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

Laela said:


> Since you asked, I'll answer: I had used an upper case "G" when I mentioned God...so it's obvious whom I speak of. Your attempt to be facetious doesn't bode well here.
> 
> Coco Brother has declared himself a Child of God.. Saved. I listen to his radio show occasionally and he is doing his part in drawing others -- mainly young people -- to Christ. Since he's on this show, it carries some weight IMO.
> 
> ...


 
Today 08:30 PM
I'm not sure what to think at this point, but I'm not so easily offended. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. God Bless.


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## divya (May 27, 2009)

Where's the THANKS button when you need it? LOL. 

Anyway, well said Laela...especially regarding Coco Brother. I just learned who Coco Brother was earlier this week, and your statements make a lot of sense to me.


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## Laela (May 27, 2009)

This is true... some prosperous/wealthy Christians don't fall in this category.



divya said:


> Another verse that comes to mind regarding the show in general...
> 
> *Matthew 6:24* - _No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. *Ye cannot serve God and mammon.*_


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## Laela (May 27, 2009)

LOL.. I sure did say that... and you didn't agree to disagree. I *had *to address some points you made after that. God Bless you indeed. It's all good... 



FoxyScholar said:


> Today 08:30 PM
> I'm not sure what to think at this point, but I'm not so easily offended. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. God Bless.


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## Laela (May 27, 2009)

Divya, if you get a chance to hear his radio show, please do. He's very anointed and takes prayer and his prayer dedications very seriously... he not only plays hip hop but gospel and I even heard some Christian rock once (Hillsong).

as the show goes..'_It's the Co-co Brother, Jesus, Baybay... Coo-cooooo._."  lol

Seriously, he's anointed!

God Bless


divya said:


> Where's the THANKS button when you need it? LOL.
> 
> Anyway, well said Laela...especially regarding Coco Brother. I just learned who Coco Brother was earlier this week, and your statements make a lot of sense to me.


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## divya (May 28, 2009)

Laela said:


> Divya, if you get a chance to hear his radio show, please do. He's very anointed and takes prayer and his prayer dedications very seriously... he not only plays hip hop but gospel and I even heard some Christian rock once (Hillsong).
> 
> as the show goes..'_It's the Co-co Brother, Jesus, Baybay... Coo-cooooo._."  lol
> 
> ...



Thanks I will. 

Bless.


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## chicacanella (Jun 3, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I saw Fantasia on Bobby Jones Gospel recently and she sang w/more passion (versus production) than some of the so-called "gospel" artists
> 
> So what's the question?


 
*Faith without works is dead. Someone can scream, cry and boohoo every church service and keep on living the same lifestyle year after year after year.  The devil can show out to ya'  know? So, it isn't just about having the faith or passion but showing it through the way you live.  Good trees bear good fruit...*


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