# Does the Black Church Keep Black Women Single?  (Please Share Your Heart on This)



## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

:heart2: Precious Ladies: I miss all of you so much. Before I print this article I want each of you to know that I thank God for each and everyone of you here. You are in my heart as my sisters, my friends, my family...beyond words. 

There is not a 'cyber' one among you, as you are very real to me beyond the walls and divisions of technology. I'm still very much involved with 'family' matters, but I'll be here as often as I can. Please forgive me for the delays in responding to your PM's and loving messages. I receive them all with love and prayers for each of you. 

This article below has me thinking... Hmmmmmmmm ? ? ? 

If you can, please read, then pick it apart and share your heart about this. No one's thoughts about this can be considered as wrong... only honest. 

I'll try to come back later to respond, but keep your thoughts and hearts flowing, because I think we have an answer here that's been hidden behind the 'pews'. 

Maybe....   Hmmmmm.... _"Maybe" ... al little maybe? _

Here's the article precious loves and Oh... Let there be none among you without your heart's desire to be happily and joyfully married, be unknown in this life.; you SHALL have your dreams fulfilled, 

In Jesus' Name, Amen and Amen. 

"We' are not _statistics_, we are 'Daughters of the Most High God'.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

Okay.... NOW here it 'tis'. .. (but it is not 'tis all') 

*(CNN)* -- Legs covered in skin-toned stockings, her skirt crisp to the knee, Patty Davis slips on the black heels she has shined for the day.
"Got to look good in the Lord's house," she says as she spritzes her neck with White Diamonds perfume and exits her black Lincoln Town Car.

Davis, 46, of Union City, Georgia, has attended African Methodist Episcopal churches since before she could crawl. She sits proudly in the pew every Sunday for service and is among the first to arrive for bible study each Wednesday.

She moves swiftly, with confidence, a weathered Bible clutched in her right hand, the day's passages dog-eared and highlighted. She's the type of woman who can recite scriptures with ease, her love of faith evident in her speech.

"Every day is a blessed day for me," she says. "Jesus is the No. 1 man in my life and any man who wants me must seek me through Him."

The unmarried Georgia native is a committed follower of the Christian faith, striving to live and breathe the gospel in her daily life. Yet, according to relationship advice columnist Deborrah Cooper, it is this devout style of belief and attachment to the black church that is keeping black women like Davis -- single and lonely.

*Clinging to the gospel*

Cooper, a writer for the San Francisco Examiner, recently made claims on her blog SurvivingDating.com that predominantly black protestant churches, such as African Methodists, Pentecostal, and certain denominations of Evangelical and Baptist churches are the main reason black women are single. Cooper, who is black and says she is not strictly religious, argues that rigid beliefs constructed by the black church are blinding black women in their search for love.

In raising the issue, Cooper ignited a public conversation about a topic that is increasingly getting attention in the black community and beyond. Oprah Winfrey, among others, recently hosted a show about single black women and relationships after a Yale University study found that 42 percent of African-American women in the United States were unmarried.

Big Miller Grove Missionary Baptist Church, a predominately African-American Baptist church in Atlanta, is holding a seminar on the question of faith's role in marital status on August 20.

"Black women are interpreting the scriptures too literally. They want a man to which they are 'equally yoked' -- a man that goes to church five times a week and every Sunday just like they do," Cooper said in a recent interview.

"If they meet a black man that is not in church, they are automatically eliminated as a potential suitor. This is just limiting their dating pool."

The traditional structure and dynamics of black churches, mostly led by black men, convey submissive attitudes to women, Cooper says, encouraging them to be patient -- instead of getting up and going after what they want.

Nearly ninety percent of African-Americans express "certain belief in God" and 55 percent say they "interpret scripture literally," according to the 2009 Pew Research Center study "A Religious Portrait of African-Americans."

Dr. Boyce Watkins, a professor at Syracuse University and advocate for African-American issues, responded to Cooper's article online. Though he applauded Cooper's courage to voice her opinion , he agreed -- and disagreed -- with her.

"I don't think the church keeps black women single," Watkins says. "But I do agree that some black churches teach women that they must only date a man that goes to church regularly."

Watkins, who is African-American and whose father is a Southern Baptist minister, described his interactions with southern women who are devout churchgoers. "I am a male and I know that I will treat a woman well, but I have been rejected many times because I don't thump a bible with me everywhere that I go."

*All in the numbers*

One of biggest reasons black women are single, Cooper says, is because of a lack of black men in the church. According to the PEW study, "African-American men are significantly more likely than women to be unaffiliated with any religion (16 percent vs. 9 percent). Nearly one-in-five men say they have no formal religious affiliation."

Watkins believes the social structure of the church keeps black men from attending. "Those appealing, high-testosterone guys have a hard time getting into the 'Follow the leader, give me your money, and listen to what I have to say' attitude."

"Many of us have a difficult time submitting to the pastor who is just another man."

The male pastor, Cooper says, is the "alpha male" for many black women. Over-reverence for the pastor - or any religious figure for that matter - creates barriers for the black man, she says, because he feels like he must compete for the No. 1 spot in a black woman's heart.

"It doesn't make you more attractive if your life is filled with these 'other' men," Cooper says. "If they feel like they have to compete, you are not going to be interesting because you're not feeding his ego in the way it needs to be fed."

Mark K. Forston, son of a black preacher in Forest Park, Georgia, says some black women "put their pastor on this pedestal and have a large amount of faith in him because he is a living source of salvation."

Sometimes women even focus their romantic feelings on the pastor, says Forston. "Regardless if he's married or not, sometimes human desires will transcend beyond certain parameters and that's dangerous territory. Pastors are humans just like anybody else."

The Rev. Renita J. Weems, a bible scholar who holds a degree in theology from Princeton, strongly disagrees with Cooper about why many black women remain single and says she is reinforcing one message: "It's the black woman's fault."

"To claim that women are sitting in their chair getting heated about watching their preacher strut across the pulpit is illogical," Weems says. "The black church is not a Sunday morning sex drama."

Weems, who is African-American and has written several books on women's spirituality, has her own criticisms of the black church. The literal interpretation of certain scriptures can lead to subjugating women, Weems says. However, positive scripture messages, about love and justice, do exist and can be used to empower women rather than keep them "single and lonely."

Weems says Cooper fails to examine deeper threads. "What the black church does and what religion does is helps you create core values for your life and allows you to see what you appreciate in others.

"The reason why black women who go to black churches are not married is because they are looking for certain values in a man," Weems says. "It is not the church that keeps them single, but the simple fact that good values are lacking in some of our men."

*Choose or lose the church*

Cooper says her goal is to empower black women. If their strategy for meeting men is failing, Cooper offers two suggestions: Find another church or leave-and go where the boys go: tailgates, bars and clubs.

"Black women need to open their eyes. You want to know the reason why the black man isn't in church? Because he left church to go to the Sunday football game," Cooper says. "Going to these sites is discouraged in the black church because these places are seen as places where 'sin dwells.' But if women are compassionate, as the bible preaches they should be, then they need to be more open about the men they choose to date and where they might meet them."

"I'm not against religion, or against the church, I'm against women limiting their choices and putting themselves in a box because they do what their church tells them to do," Cooper says.

Weems disagrees. "Telling black women that they should spend their two hours on Sunday elsewhere and drive them away to go to the bar to find a date is not helpful to our communities."

"Black women are the backbones of their community and without them a lot of charitable work would not get done, social justice on the ground would be diminished and outreach to poor people would be severed."

Patty Davis, the long time churchgoer in Georgia, says all the arguments over what the church preaches miss the point. What truly matters, she says, are women's motives.

"The real question is: What are you coming to church for?" she says. "To feed your spirit? Or your carnal desires?"

The church's effect on the romantic lives of black women cannot be gleaned from a mathematical equation or a select bible passage, Davis says.

"It is a woman's own actions and decisions that will determine the outcome of her love life, not the church's," Davis says. "Because the last time I checked, the church ain't no dating service."

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Shimmie has about 10 thoughts in my head about now.... :scratchch: Cause in some kinda'... Kinda', I think some of this is true. 

So, Angels, pick this apart, pray, and speak your heart about this. And remember, no one is wrong by speaking their heart about this.  

I just don't like that it's coming from CNN ...  

Ooooops.... Need a link? 

Oh well, okay, if I have to ...   
Here it tis'.... 

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/08/10/black.church.women.single/index.html?hpt=C2

I'll be back as soon as I can. 

Once again, "I love you.... all of you."


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## LovingLady (Aug 10, 2010)

PRAISE THE LORD, THANK YOU JESUS, SHIMMIE IS BACK!!! :Rose:


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## LovelyNaps26 (Aug 10, 2010)

funny. i just saw this and was just about to post this.


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## Do_Si_Dos (Aug 10, 2010)

I am kind of torn on this one...


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

Abdijz said:


> PRAISE THE LORD, THANK YOU JESUS, SHIMMIE IS BACK!!! :Rose:


Almost ... 

  You're such a sweetheart.   

I'm hiding from my sisters.      Don't tell them I'm here.     It's just between us.       Okay?


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

LovelyNaps26 said:


> funny. i just saw this and was just about to post this.



  Same heart, same thoughts.


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## LovingLady (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> "Every day is a blessed day for me," she says. *"Jesus is the No. 1 man in my life and any man who wants me must seek me through Him."*



I feel the same way. 



Shimmie said:


> Cooper, a writer for the San Francisco Examiner, recently made claims on her blog SurvivingDating.com that predominantly black protestant churches, such as African Methodists, Pentecostal, and certain denominations of Evangelical and Baptist churches are the main reason black women are single. *Cooper, who is black and says she is not strictly religious*, argues that rigid beliefs constructed by the black church are blinding black women in their search for love.



People who usually say that are the ones that like to pick and choose which laws to follow; if they should or should not obey God. 



Shimmie said:


> "Black women are interpreting the scriptures too literally. They want a man to which they are 'equally yoked' -- a man that goes to church five times a week and every Sunday just like they do," Cooper said in a recent interview.
> 
> "If they meet a black man that is not in church, they are automatically eliminated as a potential suitor. This is just limiting their dating pool."



We are suppose to only date people who we are equally yoked with. This is not a "strictly religious" thing, it is a Christian. How can we say that we are of God but we are not obeying His words. For me, if I meet a man that doesn't have a relationship with the Most High, then he is out of my dating pool. I think she is forgetting (or doesn't know) that the devil goes to church too. Just because a man is in church that doesn't make him a Christian. 



Shimmie said:


> The traditional structure and dynamics of black churches, mostly led by black men, convey submissive attitudes to women, Cooper says, encouraging them to be patient -- instead of getting up and going after what they want.



I read a Christian article that says it is ok for women to purse guys. I don't see anything wrong with this, just as long as he is a man of God. I personally like men to approach me. 



Shimmie said:


> "I don't think the church keeps black women single," Watkins says. "But I do agree that some black churches teach women that they must only date a man that goes to church regularly."
> 
> Watkins, who is African-American and whose father is a Southern Baptist minister, described his interactions with southern women who are devout churchgoers. "I am a male and I know that I will treat a woman well, but I have been rejected many times because I don't thump a bible with me everywhere that I go."



I don't know what to make of this. 



Shimmie said:


> *All in the numbers*
> 
> One of biggest reasons black women are single, Cooper says, is because of a lack of black men in the church.



Speaking in general I have noticed this is the black community. I don't understand why some parents would make their daughters go to church but if their sons don't want to go they don't have to. Things like this hurts me so much. I rather have my child hate me because I want to him succeed in life and be a great man of God, than for me to be his best friend and watch him self-destruct in front of my eyes.    



Shimmie said:


> *The male pastor, Cooper says, is the "alpha male" for many black women. Over-reverence for the pastor - or any religious figure for that matter - creates barriers for the black man, she says, because he feels like he must compete for the No. 1 spot in a black woman's heart.
> 
> "It doesn't make you more attractive if your life is filled with these 'other' men," Cooper says. "If they feel like they have to compete, you are not going to be interesting because you're not feeding his ego in the way it needs to be fed."* *
> 
> Mark K. Forston, son of a black preacher in Forest Park, Georgia, says some black women "put their pastor on this pedestal and have a large amount of faith in him because he is a living source of salvation."*



First of all Jesus is the ONLY source of salvation. A man shouldn't have to compete for the number 1 position because that position is not open to competition (at least for me). That spot belongs to God and if anyone is placed before Him they are considered to be idols. 

If a man needs me to worship the ground he walks on in order to feel like a man than he is not the one for me, this just displays selfish behavior. I have no problem making a man feel like a man, but he is not my god. 



Shimmie said:


> "The reason why black women who go to black churches are not married is because they are looking for certain values in a man," Weems says. "It is not the church that keeps them single, but the simple fact that good values are lacking in some of our men."



Thank you


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## LovingLady (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> Almost ...
> 
> You're such a sweetheart.
> 
> I'm hiding from my sisters.      Don't tell them I'm here.     It's just between us.       Okay?



Okay


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## Laela (Aug 10, 2010)

*WELCOME BACK, Shimmie!!!​*
I'm on the fence on this issue. I'll be back to comment. This should be good..


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

Do_Si_Dos said:


> I am kind of torn on this one...



    I'm 'torn' as well, Precious "Do-Si-Dos'. 

You know what?   When I saw this title, it hit me so strongly.   I have a strong conviction in my heart, because I know that a lot of what wasn't written in this article, yet still related to the subject, is true.  

My daughter's Pastor has been teaching a message series entitled, _"Losing Your Religion".   _Losing the weights of religiousness, which is of man and not of the heart of God our Father.   The Pharisees, Scribes who opposed Jesus are some of our examples.  Their religious 'closed' mindset and rigidness blocked the flow of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide them into all Truth and mostly into compassion and in love.

This message is breaking me.  God tells us in His word to not be so spiritually minded that we are no earthly good.    We are God's women, yet we are still women.  How many men are 'afraid' to come near to one so high?   

I am so convicted, because I know that I've hurt someone; someone who was only reaching out because he felt the presence of God's peace in me.  Yet, I sent him away, because he wasn't 'strong' enough ------ according to my perception which stemmed from religion; religion which is so alienated from the nurturing relationship with Jesus. 

There's so much more of this subject of which there is conviction for not yielding to the loving presence of God's wisdom to open our hearts and minds to the truth and to not be entrapped within the walls of "don't come near me, unless you have a throne and a cross.    

You know, it's not about the article; its more about knowing when it's God and not we ourselves... not religion, but Jesus. 

How do we measure a man?   With religion, it's like measuring a mountain with a 12 inch tape measure, it cannot stand up to the task.    A man is measured by the heart of God which lives within him and no other standard matters.  

It's not about the Black Church; it's about religion not of God's character.

Spiritual Balance Seals the Broken Paths to Love and Marriage.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

Abdijz said:


> Okay


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

Laela said:


> *WELCOME BACK, Shimmie!!!​*
> 
> I'm on the fence on this issue. I'll be back to comment. This should be good..


 Hey Precious "Night Beauty'     Hearts and Blessings to you and hubbie.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

We love you sis, take all the time you need, we carry you in our hearts.  





As far as the article.  I dunno.  I don't think the church is keeping women from marriage.  I think that a person keeps themselves from marriage IF they don't EVER EVER EVER open themselves up to it.

It's one thing to say you want to get married BUT you spend 6 days a week in the church working with women ministries or ministries that only involve married people(men of which you are HANDS OFF)

Just like with all aspects of life, there needs to be a balance in the spiritual life as well.  Christians have fun too and I think if anything, its the stereotype that we can't have fun that is keeping these women from marriage.

Christian women can go out together in groups and have lunch, dinner, movies, concerts, etc. and those are places that you meet men.  All the good men aren't just at church.  You know why?  Because they know they are good men and that they don't have to feel chained to the church in a desperate search for a wife.  

God doesn't only hook folk up in church.  The ONE  who says he WILL make me his wife was working outside my house when we met.  I wasn't at church, it was a weekday early in the afternoon.  lol

When I hear stories like this, it makes me joyful for where God has placed me during this season.  My church is very much pro-marriage.  My pastor is married and is one of those who speaks honestly.  He'll tell you quick that you don't need to be coming to church trying to tempt anyone, BUT that you don't HAVE to come to church looking like you just rolled out of bed.  There have been several inter-church marriages since I've been a member.

As far as the argument on being equally yoked, I do think people get it twisted.  When I use to read that I though it meant that you needed someone on the same spiritual level as yourself.  That, for me, is partially correct.  After praying on it, it was revealed to ME that it is intended to say that your mate should be yoked to Jesus just as you are.  EQUALLY
No one is perfect, we all fall, and if I overlook a man who is a Christian, but who doesn't attend both services on Sunday or who doesn't follow the pastor around or what have you, then does that mean he isn't good enough?  NOPE!  We are all works in progress.

My ONE was going through some things when I met him, BUT he was still Christian, off the path a bit, but still a Christian.  We parted ways and you  know what.  When I called one day out of the blue, He was still waiting for me.  He said God showed me I was His wife and that He would wait as long as it takes for me to do what I need to do until I am ready(not that I would wait forever just to test him out, cuz sometimes we fail tests.  lol)


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

Not all churches.  My current church promotes marriage a great deal.  There's actually a huge emphasis on it and a _very_ active marriage ministry.  My home church on the other hand, encourages the singles to be "wed to God" sort to speak and really doesn't do anything to promote marriage.  Most of my home church is wed, however.  There are a few singles but they have been single, _practically forever_.  Marriage is a good thing and should always be encouraged by the church.  When ever I visit though, there is always atleast three women trying to hook me up with their son, nephew though lol so I know atleast the women are on top of things!   I don't really agree with the position my home church takes on it, but I understand the need for individuals to know that one can be fulfilled without marriage, i mean....it's not the end of the world if you don't get married.   As for your question, I don't think the church is intentionally trying to keep singles unwed, but there seems to be an inability to navigate the issue well, so they resolve to merely tell people to be "wed to God" if it doesn't happen by a certain point.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

Abdijz said:


> I feel the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  Good message 'Ab'


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> We love you sis, take all the time you need, we carry you in our hearts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Precious Lady... 


And ummmm, "You" speaking the truth up in here.    

What a precious heart your 'Special One' is.   I praise God for both of you to be happily as "One", eternally.   :Rose:


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> Not all churches, my current church promotes marriage a great deal.  There's actually a huge emphasis on it and an _very_ active marriage ministry.  My home church on the other hand, encourages the singles to be "wed to God" sort to speak and really doesn't do anything to promote marriage.  Most of my home church is wed, however and there are a few singles who have been single, _practically forever_.  Marriage is a good thing and should always be encouraged by the church.  When ever I visit though, there is always atleast three women trying to hook me up with their son, nephew though LOL!  I don't really agree with the position my home church takes on it, but I understand the need for individuals to know that one can be fulfilled without marriage, i mean....it's not the end of the world if you don't get married.   As for your question, I don't think the church is intentionally trying to keep singles unwed, but there seems to be an inability to navigate the issue well, so they resolve to merely tell people to be "wed to God" if it doesn't happen by a certain point.



True, people can be fulfilled singly.  But each person knows in their heart of hearts whether they are called to marriage or not.  Just like those of us that are saved know the call of salvation, teachers know the call of teaching, people meant to be married, know the call for marriage.  

I love the married people in my church, they might not be perfect and I don't know everyone's business but it says something to me that all the  married couples don't sit together paired up.  They come to church together, to worship and often don't sit together.  The ladies sit with their friends, the men are very active in the church and have duties.  There are some familes who sit coupled up with their children.  It's like, for me, when I see that, THAT is how it is suppose to be.  Marriage's most important aspect imho is worshipping together.


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## luthiengirlie (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> :heart2: Precious Ladies: I miss all of you so much. Before I print this article I want each of you to know that I thank God for each and everyone of you here. You are in my heart as my sisters, my friends, my family...beyond words.
> 
> There is not a 'cyber' one among you, as you are very real to me beyond the walls and divisions of technology. I'm still very much involved with 'family' matters, but I'll be here as often as I can. Please forgive me for the delays in responding to your PM's and loving messages. I receive them all with love and prayers for each of you.
> 
> ...



-forgive my fowardnesss Shimmie, but I screamed in Joy for your return. I realize you don't know me from Eve but I feel like I am seeing a long lost sister again. Welcome home Shimmie,welcome home


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

SN:  know what the sermon was about Valentines day?  lol  It wasn't even about married couples,  it was from Ruth I think, and the message related to how a man is a visual creature.  How if he doesn't see you as attractive, he may overlook you all together.  There was a special shoutout to all the single ladies in the house.  We were _advised_ by our pastor to STOP going to walmart with flip flops, pajamas and ashy feet with a doo rag on our head talking about "I'm gonna find Mr. Right"  lol
tehehehehehe.  He said Mr. Right wants his women to look like something just like we want a man to look like something.

He spoke about how Ruth was to annoint herself in preperation for lying at Boaz feet.  He also made reference to Esther's preperation before going to the king.

The modern day church would have women walking around cloaked head to toe, washed in ivory soap and modest to the point of looking downright homely.  

There is a difference between trying to look sexy, and trying to look like a woman


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> *True, people can be fulfilled singly. But each person knows in their heart of hearts whether they are called to marriage or not. Just like those of us that are saved know the call of salvation, teachers know the call of teaching, people meant to be married, know the call for marriage. *
> 
> I love the married people in my church, they might not be perfect and I don't know everyone's business but it says something to me that all the married couples don't sit together paired up. They come to church together, to worship and often don't sit together. The ladies sit with their friends, the men are very active in the church and have duties. There are some familes who sit coupled up with their children. It's like, for me, when I see that, THAT is how it is suppose to be. Marriage's most important aspect imho is worshipping together.


 
That is so true, so the church should not encourage people to be single if these individuals know they have a desire to marry.  All great posts HCMN, I enjoyed both posts.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> Not all churches, my current church promotes marriage a great deal.  There's actually a huge emphasis on it and an _very_ active marriage ministry.  My home church on the other hand, encourages the singles to be "wed to God" sort to speak and really doesn't do anything to promote marriage.  Most of my home church is wed, however and there are a few singles who have been single, _practically forever_.
> 
> Marriage is a good thing and should always be encouraged by the church.  When ever I visit though, there is always atleast three women trying to hook me up with their son, nephew though LOL!  I don't really agree with the position my home church takes on it, but I understand the need for individuals to know that one can be fulfilled without marriage, i mean....it's not the end of the world if you don't get married.   As for your question, I don't think the church is intentionally trying to keep singles unwed, but there seems to be an inability to navigate the issue well, so they resolve to merely tell people to be "wed to God" if it doesn't happen by a certain point.


  This is good Sidney and I agree that most Churches encourage marriage.      

As for the women trying to 'hook you up' with their son, nephew, etc..... 

Wow!  What a compliment for how well they think of you.   :Rose:  They love you enough to embrace you as a part of them; to bring more of you into their lives with their son (or nephew) and the children who will share the same bloodline.   They know good when they see it and they see the good in you.  :Rose:

Cause if they were anything like me, no woman was ever good enough for my son.     I was always chasing them away... Well, I was... for a 'minute'.   I wore Galatians 4:30 out.  It always worked too.    

Blessings Sweet Sidney...


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## WAVES4DAYS (Aug 10, 2010)

:reddancer:  Just wanted to say hi & welcome back!!!
Off to read post...


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> SN:  know what the sermon was about Valentines day?  lol  It wasn't even about married couples,  it was from Ruth I think, and the message related to how a man is a visual creature.  How if he doesn't see you as attractive, he may overlook you all together.  There was a special shoutout to all the single ladies in the house.  We were _advised_ by our pastor to STOP going to walmart with flip flops, pajamas and ashy feet with a doo rag on our head talking about "I'm gonna find Mr. Right"  lol
> tehehehehehe.  He said Mr. Right wants his women to look like something just like we want a man to look like something.
> 
> He spoke about how Ruth was to annoint herself in preperation for lying at Boaz feet.  He also made reference to Esther's preperation before going to the king.
> ...



AMEN!  

The roof is on fire!  Cause you sure are heating it up with the Truth in your posts.   PREACH It!      

All of you, Angels in here are speaking some GOOD WORD up in here.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

*VIP* said:


> :reddancer:  Just wanted to say hi & welcome back!!!
> Off to read post...



  Love to you sweet lady.   

I'm hiding from my sisters...  

Well I am.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> -forgive my fowardnesss Shimmie, but I screamed in Joy for your return. I realize you don't know me from Eve but I feel like I am seeing a long lost sister again. Welcome home Shimmie,welcome home



  Well Hello Lovely One.   Thank you and God bless you.  I mean it with all of my heart.  :Rose:


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

Great discussion and Sidney. . . .honey, I was praying for someone to WANT to hook me up with somebody.  LOLLLLLL  I guess the desperation seeped through my well groomed look.  I had to fallll wayyyy back.  And get it together.  I was severely desperate for a boo at one point.  I mean it pained me sometimes to not be married.  And that is when God told me that I couldn't get married until I could handle being a wife to a man AND being his wife too.  

talk about my heart dropped, the tears fell and I threw a serious hissy fit.  But God knew best.  If I had gotten married any time in the past. . .ain't no telling where I'd be now.  It wouldn't be good.


----------



## luthiengirlie (Aug 10, 2010)

Thank you Shimmie  

My contribution is this: Yes I strongly desire marriage. To have it as a ministry. To love . However as G-d has been working on me I realize I need to go of a worldly view of relationships. Do I feel Ill find My Mr Godly Chocolate in church?  Only God knows. Outside? Only God knows. I'm open, but I do have standards. Many people say they have a hard timing finding men in church.  But what if people are bringing ALLL the wrong men?  I admit I dream of him often so I wonder WHEN. Forgive me if I veered wayyy off


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## LifeafterLHCF (Aug 10, 2010)

I may be wrong in my assumption but I don't believe the church is holding anyone back.I think to a degree there isn't any encouragement however the church isn't changing therefore men will not be there..when I say men those who are firm in the word and that aren't whores or gays.

Black women are holding ourselves back by not stepping out and going forward.I'm speaking about me in this instance that at times we use God as a hindrance.When your really in God your not scared of stepping out boldly in places you know men of God will be.For if I can ever lose weight,get a good job and get my persona to be more likable I would start going out to places men will be and ask the hard questions.

The church is a building to me since the body of Christ has lost it's power.So many go to church and are going through the motions.Now there are some churches that pimp the young saved and holy and make them give all their time and money to the church so it can grow.Without the black woman in the church there would be no church.We pay the bills while the over glorified pastors get the glory from them. rant over..


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## LovingLady (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> Great discussion and Sidney. . . .honey, I was praying for someone to WANT to hook me up with somebody.  LOLLLLLL  I guess the desperation seeped through my well groomed look.  I had to fallll wayyyy back.  And get it together.  I was severely desperate for a boo at one point.  I mean it pained me sometimes to not be married.  And that is when God told me that I couldn't get married until I could handle being a wife to a man AND being his wife too.
> 
> talk about my heart dropped, the tears fell and I threw a serious hissy fit.  But God knew best.  If I had gotten married any time in the past. . .ain't no telling where I'd be now.  It wouldn't be good.



That is why God is so great. He knows all things. 

I agree with your post. With everything we do there must be a balance. I like the idea of meeting someone when you are out and handling your life. It just shows that great Christian guys (or people) can be anywhere.


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> This is good Sidney and I agree that most Churches encourage marriage.
> 
> As for the women trying to 'hook you up' with their son, nephew, etc.....
> 
> ...


 
LOL,  I love the bolded Shimmie!   I would probably be the same way.  I'm not sure, ...I think they just might like playing matchmaker...i don't know.  You know how women in the church can be. 


 "Are you married yet?" 

_"No, not yet"_

"Well you should come over for dinner, oh and so and so will home."  


Oh and then there's the awkward instances when they actually call some guy over and I'm just standing there like  umn.....


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> Thank you Shimmie
> 
> My contribution is this: Yes I strongly desire marriage. To have it as a ministry. To love . However as G-d has been working on me I realize I need to go of a worldly view of relationships. Do I feel Ill find My Mr Godly Chocolate in church?  Only God knows. Outside? Only God knows. I'm open, but I do have standards. Many people say they have a hard timing finding men in church.  But what if people are bringing ALLL the wrong men?  I admit I dream of him often so I wonder WHEN. Forgive me if I veered wayyy off



You're sharing a wonderful message.   Always remember this, we will always be striving for 'perfection' and in so doing, God will bring your 'Boaz' as He did Ruth.  Her husband came as she was doing what God called her to do; being herself.   

Ready or not; perfect or not, Always Precious are you.  :Rose:


----------



## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> Thank you Shimmie
> 
> My contribution is this: Yes I strongly desire marriage. *To have it as a ministry*. To love . However as G-d has been working on me *I realize I need to go of a worldly view of relationships.* Do I feel Ill find My Mr Godly Chocolate in church?  Only God knows. Outside? Only God knows. *I'm open, but I do have standards.* Many people say they have a hard timing finding men in church.  But what if people are bringing ALLL the wrong men?  I admit I dream of him often so I wonder WHEN. Forgive me if I veered wayyy off



at the bolded.  is there a shout icon?    That's what I'm talking about, marriage as a ministry to demonstrate the relationship between God and his people.  uhm uhm uhm.  and that wordly view of relationships is something aweful.  and standards.  . . .yess, old time church folk will having you believing that you marry the first man on his knees with a ring.  nahhh playa.  



GoddessMaker said:


> I may be wrong in my assumption but I don't believe the church is holding anyone back.I think to a degree there isn't any encouragement however the church isn't changing therefore men will not be there..*when I say men those who are firm in the word and that aren't whores or gays.*
> 
> Black women are holding ourselves back by not stepping out and going forward.I'm speaking about me in this instance that at times we use God as a hindrance.*When your really in God your not scared of stepping out boldly in places you know men of God will be*.For if I can ever lose weight,get a good job and get my persona to be more likable I would start going out to places men will be and ask the hard questions.
> 
> The church is a building to me since the body of Christ has lost it's power.So many go to church and are going through the motions.Now there are some churches that pimp the young saved and holy and make them give all their time and money to the church so it can grow.Without the black woman in the church there would be no church.We pay the bills while the over glorified pastors get the glory from them. rant over..



on the first bold.  Yessss.  Tell the truth and shame the devil.  So many men in the church  are not the Godly men they were created to be.  

On the second.  Be encouraged.  There is NO fear in God.  Don't put off happiness until after you lose weight, get a good job, etc.  Go out now,  you may meet a workout buddy.   or meet a single job headhunter  while on your job search..  God knows when you are ready and so long as you keep talking yourself out of it. . . .you're not ready.  Get ready my sister.  get ready.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

Abdijz said:


> That is why God is so great. He knows all things.
> 
> I agree with your post. With everything we do there must be a balance. I like the idea of meeting someone when you are out and handling your life. It just shows that great Christian guys (or people) can be anywhere.



yes, anywhere.  I'm not saying one shouldn't be at church often, BUT if you spend all your time physically in the church and not because you have a full time job there then. . . . .what Good are you to the world?  We are to be a light unto the world. . . .not unto ourselves.




BTW:  Ruth was working when God placed her  in Boaz's eyesight.  And Boaz was working too.  
THEY WERE NOT IN THE TEMPLE/CHURCH/CAMPMEETING/ETC  lol


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> Great discussion and Sidney. . . .honey, I was praying for someone to WANT to hook me up with somebody. LOLLLLLL I guess the desperation seeped through my well groomed look. I had to fallll wayyyy back. And get it together. I was severely desperate for a boo at one point. I mean it pained me sometimes to not be married. And that is when God told me that I couldn't get married until I could handle being a wife to a man AND being his wife too.
> 
> talk about my heart dropped, the tears fell and I threw a serious hissy fit. But God knew best. If I had gotten married any time in the past. . .ain't no telling where I'd be now. It wouldn't be good.


 
I know what you mean HCMN, I have eyes, I can see .  There are some fine men in the church.  But if I am not able to view your character over an _extended_ period of time, I'm not going to go out with you.  The good thing about church hook ups though is that the other's involved may know the guy's character and can give you more insight on the person.   Which is why I think church involvement can be a good thing.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> LOL,  I love the bolded Shimmie!   I would probably be the same way.  I'm not sure, ...I think they just might like playing matchmaker...i don't know.  You know how women in the church can be.
> 
> 
> "Are you married yet?"
> ...



Girl, you gonna get me in trouble with Jesus with my bold statement.  But it's the TRUTH.     I was tired of all the girls he was bringing to my house for me to meet.     

Anyhoo..... 

Sidney I can see it all too clear how you have been literally 'bombarded' by women seeking to match you up with their son (or friend or family member).   I used to run, because I thought *sumpin'* was wrong with him.  I mean, Golly Geepers, why can't he speak for himself?    .  Was he missing any 'parts' unknown.   

I'm getting a little too playful here.... :blush3:     Pray for me.  

But Sid, I'm being real, I used to run.  , cause I thought he was unable to get a girl on his own.    However, I'm sensible NOW enough to realize that it's not always the case.  Except for this one guy, right?  Well he just wasn't the one.  And that's ALL I'm sayin'.   I mean, I'm just sayin'.  

I think I'll quit while I'm ahead.   However, my compliment to you still stands and it stands upon the Rock... our Jesus.   These women do see the 'good' in you, they really do.   :Rose:


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## luthiengirlie (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> You're sharing a wonderful message. Always remember this, we will always be striving for 'perfection' and in so doing, God will bring your 'Boaz' as He did Ruth. Her husband came as she was doing what God called her to do; being herself.
> 
> Ready or not; perfect or not, Always Precious are you. :Rose:


 

ABSOLUTLY POWERFUL! BEING MYSELF BEING A CHILD OF YHWH being a person who is choosing to grow.

Im always telling a friend
that BEING ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS is attractive like CHEESECAKE to a manseriously!!!!


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## luthiengirlie (Aug 10, 2010)

I just thought of something.... there is this bible story..someone check me out if i'm in error

but Abraham's sone was about to get married. He sent His servant to  find his son a wife.
THe servant prayed ASKED YHWH  to show him who she was by her willi8ng to draw water for the servant AND his horses...a woman did and they got married and fell in love

this SHOWS me YHWH ASSIGNS soulmates!


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> yes, anywhere.  I'm not saying one shouldn't be at church often, BUT if you spend all your time physically in the church and not because you have a full time job there then. . . . .what Good are you to the world?  We are to be a light unto the world. . . .not unto ourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



HEY!  Stop telling the Truth!   

You are dripping with pearls.  (Pearls of Wisdom and Truth)  You are TRULY speaking a good Word up in here.   

I hate to say this, but most happily married folks have NOT met in Church.  Many of the men ain't there.   But then, we ALL KNOW that.  Get em' from the football games.  

God will lead and they will follow ... So I see a Tailgate wedding for many in the future.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> I just thought of something.... there is this bible story..someone check me out if i'm in error
> 
> but Abraham's sone was about to get married. He sent His servant to  find his son a wife.
> THe servant prayed ASKED YHWH  to show him who she was by her willi8ng to draw water for the servant AND his horses...a woman did and they got married and fell in love
> ...


You are absolutely right,    You are speaking of Abraham who sent his servant to find a wife for his son Issac.   And in so doing, he found Rebekkah >>> (spelling ?) who proved herself by going the extra mile, watering his horses one by one.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> ABSOLUTLY POWERFUL! BEING MYSELF BEING A CHILD OF YHWH being a person who is choosing to grow.
> 
> Im always telling a friend
> that BEING ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS is attractive like CHEESECAKE to a manseriously!!!!



Oooooo!   Adding Cheesecake Factory as a meeting place.   Uh-huh. 

Okay.... Next!


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## luthiengirlie (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> You are absolutely right,  You are speaking of Abraham who sent his servant to find a wife for his son Issac. And in so doing, he found Rebekkah >>> (spelling ?) who proved herself by going the extra mile, watering his horses one by one.


 

and guess where she* WASN'T*? in church


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> HEY!  Stop telling the Truth!
> 
> You are dripping with pearls.  (Pearls of Wisdom and Truth)  You are TRULY speaking a good Word up in here.
> 
> ...




hey now!  football season is blossoming.  Ain't nothing wrong with some Christian sisters partaking in some cola and wangs(yep I said wangs) at the local venue while watching the bigscreen football games, while being peeped by boaz.  im just sayin'   boys like girls that like sports.


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> Girl, you gonna get me in trouble with Jesus with my bold statement. But it's the TRUTH.  I was tired of all the girls he was bringing to my house for me to meet.
> 
> Anyhoo.....
> 
> ...


 
Oh my, I can't breath lol !   The other thing is, if the mother is this involved in the hook up, you practically be married to her too lol.  Then I'd be posting in that "Who comes first: mom or wife"  thread lol!

Thank you for the compliment, who knows.....the next introduction may be the one.  But honestly I think part of it is that I just prefer to observe character first but I woun't rule anyone out if I feel the spirit is leading.  Thanks Shimmie.


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## luthiengirlie (Aug 10, 2010)

Abdijz said:


> I feel the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


*enlarged bolded and COLORFIED I LOVE THIS..SPEAK THE TRUTH HOMIE! ROTFL*


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> I know what you mean HCMN, I have eyes, I can see .  There are some fine men in the church.  But if I am not able to view your character over an _extended_ period of time, I'm not going to go out with you.
> 
> *The good thing about church hook ups though is that the other's involved may know the guy's character and can give you more insight on the person.   Which is why I think church involvement can be a good thing*.



Amen Sidney.   In all truth and my kidding aside, no matter where we have met our future husbands, Church is the place to bring him for the covering of prayer and God's wisdom and His presence to prevail over the relationship.    

No matter when or where a couple meets, God has to prevail and the House of God and the prayers and fellowship of those of like precious faith, has to be forefront; it's either God or the enemy.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

look at the proverbs 31 wife. . . . .

She was ABOUT HER BUSINESS.  ON THE GRIND.  PROBABLY TITHING  A 10TH  *AND  *GIVING OFFERINGS, HELPING THE HOMELESS, FEEDING THE SICK AND SHUT IN.  ETC.


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## LovingLady (Aug 10, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> ABSOLUTLY POWERFUL! BEING MYSELF BEING A CHILD OF YHWH being a person who is choosing to grow.
> 
> Im always telling a friend
> that *BEING ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS is attractive like CHEESECAKE to a man*seriously!!!!







HeChangedMyName said:


> look at the proverbs 31 wife. . . . .
> 
> She was ABOUT HER BUSINESS.  ON THE GRIND.  PROBABLY TITHING  A 10TH  *AND  *GIVING OFFERINGS, HELPING THE HOMELESS, FEEDING THE SICK AND SHUT IN.  ETC.



I love that scripture.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> Amen Sidney.   In all truth and my kidding aside, no matter where we have met our future husbands, *Church is the place to bring him for the covering of prayer and God's wisdom and His presence to prevail over the relationship.    *
> 
> No matter when or where a couple meets, God has to prevail and the House of God and the prayers and fellowship of those of like precious faith, has to be forefront; it's either God or the enemy.



yesss, now that is the truth!  Church is where you get spiritual fed and covered, you may or may not meet your mate there, BUT it is not the end all be all to meeting your husband.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> and guess where she* WASN'T*? in church



 Tou' che!   

She didn't have on makeup either !    It was sweated off watering them horses.   

I hope she was able to save some water for a nice hot bath.  

I'm so glad Abraham's servant didn't ask her to share her Mega Tek with the horses.    Now that would have done it for me.  I have my 'standards' and I don't give up my hair goods to horses, instead, I take theirs.


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> yesss, now that is the truth! Church is where you get spiritual fed and covered, you may or may not meet your mate there, BUT it is not the end all be all to meeting your husband.


 
Yes, I agree with all you ladies.  I've been surprised to  encounter many christian men randomly outside of church.  There are christian men out there in the world.   So, before you leave the house, unwrap you hair.....lol!  I'm just saying.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> Yes, I agree with all you ladies.  I've been surprised to  encounter many christian men randomly outside of church.  There are christian men out there in the world.   So, before you leave the house, unwrap you hair.....lol!  I'm just saying.




  you know "we" can be notorius for wearing the hair wrapped to preserve it for what we feel are important events.  

unwrap the hair AND lotion the ankles and elbows.


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## WAVES4DAYS (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> Tou' che!
> 
> She didn't have on makeup either !    It was sweated off watering them horses.
> 
> ...




@ the bold:


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> yesss, now that is the truth!  Church is where you get spiritual fed and covered, you may or may not meet your mate there, BUT it is not the end all be all to meeting your husband.



Amen Sis... Amen.   You're still preaching fire and Truth.  

This is where it gets messed up, by leaving God out of the union.  There is and will ALWAYS be a spiritual tie in our relationships here on earth and that spiritual connection and / or influence will be either God or the enemy.   

As humans we are spirit, soul and body.  We still need the Church for the right spirit to feed our souls and to KEEP our souls from perishing.   No marriage, let alone any relationship can survive without the Breath of Life which is God alone and none other.  

So from the field goal ("Touch Down") to the House of God and the fullness thereof.   For God is our Father, Our righteous judge, our Master, Our Saviour, Our Lord God forever and without Him, there is no life in love, no matter how it comes.    

When we come into a relationship, we need God all the more.  As you said,  HCMN, it is not the end all.   

I learned the hard way in my first marriage, and God knows I learned a hard lesson, that without God's presence in my life and marriage, there was no marriage. 

With God... all things are not only possible, but with God all things are alive.   And there isn't a thing that the devil can do about it.  

Praise Jesus!


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

*VIP* said:


> @ the bold:



I have my standards!  And that's just final !  

Mega Tek is $25 a bottle at Amazon.  

What they think this is ?  

However, if Jesus changed water into wine, then surely .....


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> you know "we" can be notorius for wearing the hair wrapped to preserve it for what we feel are important events.
> 
> unwrap the hair AND lotion the ankles and elbows.


 

Uhmn humn, my hair is waiting on Friday as we speak lol!  We have gotten completely off subject. SMH.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> you know "we" can be notorius for wearing the hair wrapped to preserve it for what we feel are important events.
> 
> unwrap the hair AND lotion the ankles and elbows.



Take a note from the Prophets.... 

They always carried OIL.   

He annointeth thy elbows and knees with Oil.  

And please don't be rancid.  Keep some FRESH Oil in thy purses.  

OH and don't get caught in the Church ladies room rubbing ash off your knees and heels.   

The women's Will TALK about you.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

back on topic.  LOL!!!

I think we all can sort of agree that the church ain't done nothing to a women except hold her focus, but if a woman wants to give more of her attention to the church than to making sure she is presentable for Boaz, then its her choice and she can't blame the church for her personal choice.


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> Take a note from the Prophets....
> 
> They always carried OIL.
> 
> ...


 

Surely Lubriderm shall follow me all the days of my life.  

And I will dwell in a house with oil forever, amen.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> Uhmn humn, my hair is waiting on Friday as we speak lol!
> 
> *We have gotten completely off subject. SMH*.



No we haven't.   Sidney, we're getting to the TRUTH of the matter.  

These are all of the Church things that have been holding women back.  

NO JOKE !   We didn't behave this way before Church.  

So, We are totally* ON *Subject.  We're getting the root of the matter.  

Each of your posts are so on target and they are much 'Food for Thought'. 

This is why .... 

I'm sorry....

I'm just gonna say it.  

This is why men are at the football games.    

Keep it coming.   This is what's been hiding behind the 'Pews'.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> Surely Lubriderm shall follow me all the days of my life.
> 
> And I will dwell in a house with oil forever, amen.



If push comes to shove, break out the Crisco oil.  We ALL know how to disguise it with Essential Oils.   We're the Essential Guru's around here. 

We are 'Essentially Annointed'.     

We can make anything smell good.    We rocked the MTG.


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

Oh Shimmie is telling y'all the word now, it's right there in the new testament lol!  This is serious bitness!


*Matthew 25
Then the foolish ones said to the wise ones, 'Let us have some of your oil....."' 'No, indeed,' the wise ones answered, 'there is not enough for you and us. Go to the shop and buy some for yourselves.' So the foolish women went off to buy some oil; and while they were gone, the bridegroom arrived*.


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## GodsPromises (Aug 10, 2010)

Welcome Back Big Sis,  you were missed.

As for the article I too am struggling with this right now.  My last two relationship, one I was married too with men how I thought was equally yoked and neither one of them worked out so now I'm looking at the entire picture and not just the spiritual aspect.  I am also prayerfully that God will direct my path and right now I am context with my decision with my SO.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> Oh Shimmie is telling y'all the word now, it's right there in the new testament lol!  This is serious bitness!
> 
> 
> *Matthew 25
> Then the foolish ones said to the wise ones, 'Let us have some of your oil....."' 'No, indeed,' the wise ones answered, 'there is not enough for you and us. Go to the shop and buy some for yourselves.' So the foolish women went off to buy some oil; and while they were gone, the bridegroom arrived*.




and let the church say AMEN and AMEN!


BTW:  my sister went to the holy land experience and brought me back an alabaster container with spikenard in it.  uhmmm hmmmm yes.  I got my oils.  

y'all got urs?


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> back on topic.  LOL!!!
> 
> I think we all can sort of agree that the church ain't done nothing to a women except hold her focus, but if a woman wants to give more of her attention to the church than to making sure she is presentable for Boaz, then its her choice and she can't blame the church for her personal choice.



This is so true.  So, So true.    

Ladies, I'll be honest, I was really 'stuck up'.  I was.  I was very staunch and HOLY and untouchable.   I was a Godly Woman who could not be touched.   I still have my standards and they are strong, however, God has brought me down a few notches.  

My son used to tell me, "Mom, you need to land, you won't come down."  He was telling me the truth.   I WILL say this, though.   My toughness cast out many a devil and I have to admit, that I was 'high' on that which is why I couldn't land.    Jesus has shown me that I can still 'land' as He did and still have the power to cast out devils, and to give God the glory all the way.  

Note:  By casting out devils, it was done in the power of intercession; the ability to stand and stay in prayer unceasingly.   

I'm not trying to be 'spooky',


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> Oh Shimmie is telling y'all the word now, it's right there in the new testament lol!  This is serious bitness!
> 
> 
> *Matthew 25
> Then the foolish ones said to the wise ones, 'Let us have some of your oil....."' 'No, indeed,' the wise ones answered, 'there is not enough for you and us. Go to the shop and buy some for yourselves.' So the foolish women went off to buy some oil; and while they were gone, the bridegroom arrived*.



WHOA ! ! !  :woohoo2: :woohoo2:  :woohoo2: 

What a Word!   SIDNEY ! ! !  What a Word ! ! !  

Praise God.   

That article has truly missed the mark.  There ain't nothing wrong with the Black Church and Women, married or single.    

CNN missed it!  AGAIN!   They need to be in here in the midst of the truth.


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> back on topic. LOL!!!
> 
> I think we all can sort of agree that the church ain't done nothing to a women except hold her focus, but if a woman wants to give more of her attention to the church than to making sure she is presentable for Boaz, then its her choice and she can't blame the church for her personal choice.


 
You speak the truth.  We are to be married to the bridegroom, not the church.  Commitment to Christ doesn't mean you don't make time to present yourself well for a relationship.  I am familiar with women like this, and they really do a lot for the church.  Service to the body should just flow, we shouldn't feel like we are running here and there or feel bound up.

ETA:  I do believe that ministry should be a priority when you are single, when you are married it's your marriage.  However, ministry is what you are being led by God to do.  Make sure your service is unto God and not unto man.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

This right here has been a much needed discussion.  The truth is married Christians don't spend every waking moment of their lives together in church, reading the Bible or discussing church ministry business. 

If you don't have a life that is full, then you are not appealing to anyone.  No one, man or woman, wants a mate who is one dimensional.

I enjoy other things. . . Imma put it out there,  I enjoy cooking, sewing, teaching my kids, going out with my girls, going to amusement parks, etc.  and HE appreciates that I have a life that doesn't have to revolve around him constantly and while we routinely discuss what each has learned on Sunday at our respective churches.  . .we do not constantly talk about our involvment in ministry.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> and let the church say AMEN and AMEN!
> 
> 
> BTW:  my sister went to the holy land experience and brought me back an alabaster container with spikenard in it.  uhmmm hmmmm yes.  I got my oils.
> ...



Amen, I keep oil.   Baby oil, Olive oil, Coconut Oil, Emu oil, Jojoba, I annoint them all, dedicating them to the Lord; especially my Indian Oils.  

Whatever we bring into our homes, we should dedicate them to the Lord for His presence to prevail.   Especially items that come from other countries and cultures.   

The prophets in the Bible always acknowledged the presence of God when they used their oils.  

In the same manner as we say 'Grace' over the foods we eat, I simply pray over anything that I place on my body (and my children); especially my hair (my head), I pray the annointing of God to prevail and that which is placed upon my body be used for the sole purpose of God. 

Don't pay me no mind, I've been in Church like ... 'Forever'.  I still have 'issues'.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> This right here has been a much needed discussion.  The truth is married Christians don't spend every waking moment of their lives together in church, reading the Bible or discussing church ministry business.
> 
> If you don't have a life that is full, then you are not appealing to anyone.  No one, man or woman, wants a mate who is one dimensional.
> 
> I enjoy other things. . . Imma put it out there,  I enjoy cooking, sewing, teaching my kids, going out with my girls, going to amusement parks, etc.  and HE appreciates that I have a life that doesn't have to revolve around him constantly and while we routinely discuss what each has learned on Sunday at our respective churches.  . .we do not constantly talk about our involvment in ministry.



Good word.  Very good word.   A good marriage is well rounded to bring it full circle and in the midst of the circle is God... Our Father God whom God hath joined this man and woman together, as 'One'.   

And wives don't be stressed about your size, complexion, etc.   A perfect wife is 'Round and Brown'.   (Just ask Moses, King Solomon and Boaz).


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

GodsPromises said:


> Welcome Back Big Sis,  you were missed.
> 
> As for the article I too am struggling with this right now.  My last two relationship, one I was married too with men how I thought was equally yoked and neither one of them worked out so now I'm looking at the entire picture and not just the spiritual aspect.  I am also prayerfully that God will direct my path and right now I am context with my decision with my SO.



Hello Beautiful One...    I've missed you too.  

I wish you every joy and happiness with the love of your life and with God as your healer for all that has every hurt you.  It's your time to be happy and it is not afar.   God bless you.  :Rose:


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## Laela (Aug 10, 2010)

My church has a marriage ministry as well as a singles ministry... I believe many "churches" (organizations) are doing their part to promote the Word effectively. Every Church is different, but we must be aware that the media has its agenda. I take articles like these with a grain of salt, because they're always so slanted.

I'm biased... from my journalism days, so bear with me. The article starts off bad... _a successful single woman spritzing perfume, coming out of a Lincoln_.. already painting a picture that she's on "the hunt" for a man, ad nauseum. Um, OK...that's what I don't like about the media... how it twists things. It's as bad as when 'they' say Black folks come in their "Sunday best"... no, we are not statistics and we should be tired of being seen as such. There's perception and then, there's the truth.

I agree with you ladies that the CHURCH isn't the place to LOOK but I believe it is the place to BE. To attend church with the goal of marrying will keep a woman single, I believe that, because she's attending church for the wrong reason. Yet what is so wrong with wanted to be close to God?

I find that people who have a problem with those who seek God's face in earnest tend to view them as holier-than-thou, when in actuality they're expressing their own sense of inadequacy with their relationship with God. Their perception is twisted, much like a woman with low self-esteem perceives one with self-confidence. The former perceives the latter as conceited. 

Well, no different with the Media's obsession with Black Women.

...where was I going with this?

oh, yes.... lol

Earlier today I'd mentioned Satan's attack on Marriage (including those who are married and those who desire to be) and this Scriptures speaks to what we're discussing now: 

*1 Timothy 4* says:

_1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth._

The devil's goal is to break up marriages, keep singles from marrying and discourage those who desire marriage. But we all know Our Father is who really is in control. 

While articles like these are good for discourse, they do the "churches" more harm than good and we really need to pray about that. Most times than not, it's the effects of what's written and reverberates throughout the communities by the media that keeps Black women, esp Single Christian women discouraged.  

There is life outside of "church" of course! I see nothing wrong with online dating, or just going about one's business in the Faith and trusting God will help one find a mate. We're earthly vessels, to receive....


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

Ladies, thank you for being here.  I've enjoyed spending time with you, very much and as you can see, I'm still 'Shimmie' as ever.  

Just as an FYI, shortly after my mom's passing and her service in February, in April my sister was hit by a car and it rendered her entire left side 'non- weight bearing'.  The accident required extensive surgery on her left arm and left leg.  For the past few months she was from bed to wheelchair and from wheelchair to bed.   She needed 24 hour care.  

She's still in a Nursing Rehab Center as an inpatient, but the Good News is that she is now able to walk with a cane, but only for a few moments.  

If I'm not here, this is one of the reasons why.  There are legal issues as well with my mom's estate, however, Jesus is Lord. 

I wish each of you Sweet Sleep   and that all of your cares will keep for God has each of you and your dreams deeply embraced within His heart and they each SHALL come to pass for each of you.   It's God's great pleasure to bless you.  He says so.  Not Shimmie, God says so. 

Keep the threads going, for I shall return.   I love each of you.  Please know this and do not ever doubt neither forget it.   One by one I will respond to your messages and PM's.  Please forgive my delay.  

I Love You!  All !    

Now get ready for those Husbands.  They're looking for you.  :Rose: 

Back soon... sweethearts.   

And as for CNN... they just shoulda' asked us ''first".     You Ladies are awesome.  Just awesome.  

Night Night, Precious Lambs.


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## Laela (Aug 10, 2010)

at some of the comments... too funny!

I've not seen this many Smilies in one thread in a minute. 

~~ fresh air ~~


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

Laela said:


> My church has a marriage ministry as well as a singles ministry... I believe many "churches" (organizations) are doing their part to promote the Word effectively. Every Church is different, but we must be aware that the media has its agenda. I take articles like these with a grain of salt, because they're always so slanted.
> 
> I'm biased... from my journalism days, so bear with me. The article starts off bad... _a successful single woman spritzing perfume, coming out of a Lincoln_.. already painting a picture that she's on "the hunt" for a man, ad nauseum. Um, OK...that's what I don't like about the media... how it twists things. It's as bad as when 'they' say Black folks come in their "Sunday best"... no, we are not statistics and we should be tired of being seen as such. There's perception and then, there's the truth.
> 
> ...



  This is a beautiful message Laela.  It's speaks so much love and God's heart.   I totally agree with you regarding the articles such as this one.   You are totally on point.  

God bless you and Hubbie "Night Beauty".  :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2010)

Laela said:


> at some of the comments... too funny!
> 
> I've not seen this many Smilies in one thread in a minute.
> 
> ~~ fresh air ~~



I'm innocent.  I've been in 'Church' the entire time.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 10, 2010)

sidney said:


> You speak the truth.  We are to be married to the bridegroom, not the church.  Commitment to Christ doesn't mean you don't make time to present yourself well for a relationship.  I am familiar with women like this, and they really do a lot for the church.  Service to the body should just flow, we shouldn't feel like we are running here and there or feel bound up.
> 
> ETA:*  I do believe that ministry should be a priority when you are single, when you are married it's your marriage.  However, ministry is what you are being led by God to do.  Make sure your service is unto God and not unto man*.




I believe that while we don't have to Bible thump, everything we do can serve as a ministry.  I have children and God showed me that right  now, my first ministry is to my children,  to teach them about Him and make sure they understand their place in the world according to the Word.  That doesn't mean I am constantly quoting the Bible to them(remember in the movie Carrie, her mother was a CRAZY Bible thumper)  In much the same way I think a marriage in itself becomes a ministry.  You are there with and for one another to demonstrate your roles as God created you two for one another and to nurture one another and edify one another according to the Word of God.  

When God showed me all this about life and ministry I was at a point where I had decided that I wanted to fill my life with ministry involvement and I resented being a single mother because it prevented me from just up and participating in everything.  I felt like I messed up and was being punished for having kids out of wedlock and thus I felt like God was making me sit out on ministry.  The truth is I do deal with consequences, BUT nothing happens without God's foreknowledge so He know what my situation would be, even before I did and he wants me to cater to these kids in the meantime.  As they've gotten older, I've gotten more involved in church activities, and so have they.  

I would hope that my husband would participate in church ministry activities as well.  My church is very family oriented and nurtures the whole person so I'm sure that wont be a problem.  

We have a superbowl party every year.  We tailgate in the parking lot once a year, married coupled go on retreats, young people go places and do things.  I can't wait until I am in a position to be doing all those things with my Boaz.


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## LifeafterLHCF (Aug 10, 2010)

This is my last little input Im not some super holy person or some lady but I was thinking while cooking a second ago and thought marriage is only good when your in love with the person I mean my mother and stepfather are in a loveless marriage.She is always sad and depressed.I feel it's why she is on meds.A single person can only be happy in that if they are happy and don't desire marriage or companionship as the be all end all.Im a single person that is miserable because I desire marriage and just unhappy because I have no love in my self relationship..I hope the ladies out there who are married are in a loved filled marriage.Love will make you cook for someone after a long day at work while been on your feet for 12 hour day.Love for your singleness will be taking care of yourself if you have old wounds that need to heal.

Just my 2 cents for someone who wants joy since I will be single for life.


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## sidney (Aug 10, 2010)

Laela said:


> My church has a marriage ministry as well as a singles ministry... I believe many "churches" (organizations) are doing their part to promote the Word effectively. Every Church is different, but we must be aware that the media has its agenda. I take articles like these with a grain of salt, because they're always so slanted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautifully written Laela.  Just wanted to add I think there may be a distinction being discussed here, between  those who want to be close to God and those who are bound up in service.  I think those who are being referenced here as being exploited by the church is the latter group--too dedicated to the church activites to do make time to do anything else, including seeking personal relationships.   At my home church, I noticed that it was the few single women essentially were the most "extended."  Always serving....running this or that program.  Then there is also the occassional married woman who often serve church at the expense of their own families.  Of course this is much to the benefit of the church, as single women can dedicate more time to serving the church than the married woman can (remember majority of the church consists of women).  At my home church, I don't think they are trying to keep the singles, single but they do benefit from their service.


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## phynestone (Aug 11, 2010)

We have to look at personal choices. Do we have lead every prayer meeting, committee and group? Do we have to dress homely and never step out and try anything new b/c we're afraid of offending people? No. We can go to church and give our tithes. We can indulge in the arts, sports and go on trips. We can participate in events and go places where men hang out. And look good while we're at it. I love the Lord. I love going to church. But I will not let some church member make me believe that I'm going to hell b/c I can't participate in everything or give everything I own. We have to take responsibility for our own choices.


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## luthiengirlie (Aug 11, 2010)

GoddessMaker said:


> This is my last little input Im not some super holy person or some lady but I was thinking while cooking a second ago and thought marriage is only good when your in love with the person I mean my mother and stepfather are in a loveless marriage.She is always sad and depressed.I feel it's why she is on meds.A single person can only be happy in that if they are happy and don't desire marriage or companionship as the be all end all.Im a single person that is miserable because I desire marriage and just unhappy because I have no love in my self relationship..I hope the ladies out there who are married are in a loved filled marriage.Love will make you cook for someone after a long day at work while been on your feet for 12 hour day.Love for your singleness will be taking care of yourself if you have old wounds that need to heal.
> 
> Just my 2 cents for someone who wants joy since I will be single for life.


 *actually sis you WONT. I've learned this the hard,fun interesting,strange way: YHWH reserves the right to suprise you and shake up your life lol. He's done that to me 50-leven times so I don't excatly SET THANGS IN STONE anymore. Folly are the plans in a man's heart! ha*


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 11, 2010)

Just read this beautiful story online. . .hope you all enjoy it.  For those of us who are married, seeking to be married, or afraid to be married.  WOW.  



> MARRIAGE
> 
> When I got home that night as my wife served dinner, I  held her hand and said, I've got something to tell you. She sat down and  ate quietly. Again I observed the hurt in her eyes.
> 
> ...


http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=119146528132839&id=512244889


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## delitefulmane (Aug 11, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> *"The reason why black women who go to black churches are not married is because they are looking for certain values in a man," Weems says.*
> 
> *"The real question is: What are you coming* *to church for?" she says. "To feed your spirit? Or your carnal desires?"*



YAYY!! Welcome HOME Shimmie!!  
Great article!! Its something to definitely ponder about. I can't say that I agree with everything stated in this article but I do agree with some of it. Particularly the bolded.

It seems Black Christian woman are looking for "certain values in a man," like the article states, so the church acts as this common ground. For those who find love in an academic setting, this is a common ground. For those who find it in a professional setting, this is also common ground. 

However, when love is not found in either of those settings, it makes being _found_ a daunting task. I think we find it easier to go to church with the intention of finding love because it seems easier to weed out the worldly men from the  'good church men' IN CHURCH than it would be to find a Christian-hearted man in other worldly settings.


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## Laela (Aug 11, 2010)

Sidney,

That's a good point..and those who are TOO wrapped up in church activities will tend to neglect other aspect of their lives. That's a sin, too, and the Bible warns against that.

God wants us to live balanced lives.  That's why I believe it's important to know when to say NO, even to the church. Those being exploited, can't say NO. Great point and thanks for pointing that out



sidney said:


> Beautifully written Laela.  Just wanted to add I think there may be a distinction being discussed here, between  those who want to be close to God and those who are bound up in service.  I think those who are being referenced here as bei*ng exploited by the church is the latter group--too dedicated to the church activites to do make time to do anything else, including seeking personal relationships. *  At my home church, I noticed that it was the few single women essentially were the most "extended."  Always serving....running this or that program.  Then there is also the occassional married woman who often serve church at the expense of their own families.  Of course this is much to the benefit of the church, as single women can dedicate more time to serving the church than the married woman can (remember majority of the church consists of women).  At my home church, I don't think they are trying to keep the singles, single but they do benefit from their service.


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## Laela (Aug 11, 2010)

I told him you'd returned to the Forum last night...he laughed, then said to tell you hello !  




Shimmie said:


> This is a beautiful message Laela.  It's speaks so much love and God's heart.   I totally agree with you regarding the articles such as this one.   You are totally on point.
> 
> God bless you and Hubbie "Night Beauty".  :Rose:


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 11, 2010)

Well ladies, I guess whether Boaz finds you in church or not, its your prayer life that matters when it comes to keeping your marriage together.  found this article just now.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/11/AR2010081101961.html?wprss=rss_metro

Here is a snippet


> African American couples are more likely than other groups to share core religious beliefs and pray together in the home -- factors that have been linked to greater happiness in marriages and relationships, according to a study released Tuesday.
> In what was described as the first major look at relationship quality and religion across racial and ethnic lines, researchers reported a significant link overall between relationship satisfaction and religious factors for whites, Hispanics and African Americans. The study appears in the August issue of the Journal of Marriage and Family.
> True to the old aphorism, couples that pray together stay together, said study co-author W. Bradford Wilcox, director of the National Marriage Project, based at University of Virginia, and "African American couples are more likely to have a shared spiritual identity as a couple."
> The study found that 40 percent of blacks in marriages and live-in relationships attended religious services regularly and had a partner who did the same, compared with 29 percent of non-Hispanic whites and 29 percent of Hispanics.
> ...


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## Guitarhero (Aug 11, 2010)

Laela said:


> Sidney,
> 
> That's a good point..and those who are TOO wrapped up in church activities will tend to neglect other aspect of their lives. That's a sin, too, and the Bible warns against that.
> 
> God wants us to live balanced lives.  That's why I believe it's important to know when to say NO, even to the church. Those being exploited, can't say NO. Great point and thanks for pointing that out




Amen to that...I've seen people ruin their marriages by playing church all day long.


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## CoilyFields (Aug 11, 2010)

Hey ladies!
Welcome welcome Shimmie!!! You know we missed you sis.

Few points:

1. The Church is a House of Prayer

2. For real? Like for real for real? Even the world subscribes to being equally yoked with a person...they just prioritize race and socioeconomic status over religion.

3. I think the article is extremely far-fetched...assuming that single women that go to church are single because they go to church...we dont assume married people that go to church are married because they go to church. 

6. How bout we look at the real statistics that lead to singleness in the black community period? (Cuz there are most likely just as many single non-church-going black women as single church-going ones) The real issue is:
          a. a huge amount of the male population of marriageable age 18-35 are incarcerated
          b. black women are generally high educated than black men and have difficulty finding someone that matches their socioeconomic level
          c.  we live in a society the celebrates promiscuity...why buy the cow when you got the milk for free?
          d. There is a distinct lack of fathers with shotguns protecting daughters from wolves and ensuring marriage. 

And the list goes on...

This is just another attack on the church because if a woman who was single was dedicating her time to orphanages and the cancer foundation she would be lauded for her good works rather than told to stop them and go to a club instead so she can find a man.


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## Do_Si_Dos (Aug 11, 2010)

Wow Shimmie, I don't even know you, but I can feel your heart over the internet. I just thank God for allowing me the opportunity to experience him through you.

After some carefully thought, I am leaning toward this is an individual issue versus a church issue. Yes, our Pastors are there to guide and counsel us, but I think as individuals we are held accountable for our own growth in Christ.  Jesus died on the cross; to take away the veil separated us, so now through him we can freely go to the father about anything. 

So if marriage is God's will for your life, you have to trust his plan for you.  I am learning that in all things we have to surrender him.  We sometime get impatient, because his timing is not our timing.  We then, settle or give up, which to blame others (the church or God) for our misfortune. If you are obedient to God's will for your life, regardless of what your pastor is preaching, God's promises will manifest in your life. 

We have to take focus off the religion, and focus on the vertical (toward heaven) relationship, so that we can be Christ like in our horizontal relationship.


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## joy2day (Aug 11, 2010)

Yay Shimmie, so glad to see you!

To the point regarding single [women] service to the church as a whole... this is one of the issues that makes me kinda feel like the church (in some instances) does (at times) keep women single. Sure, we have minds to make our own choices, but what happens when pastors and single's ministers decide that the choice in a particular congregation is continuous service for singles, because the singles aren't married and don't have so called "wordly" obligations outside of day jobs and/or school.

I don't know ladies. The whole thing about singles serving and needing to serve more than the marrieds because "they have the time" to do so has always bothered me. I do not like anyone obligating me, or making assumptions about what I have time to do or not do based on my single status. And, if sisters get caught up in this ideology, believing that they have to be obligated to the pastor's/minitry's wishes, simply because the woman is single with no husband and children, isn't that a failure of the church to acknowledge monopolizing a woman's life and keeping her from getting out and being a well-rounded individual? As someone stated earlier, some churches do not even acknowledge that single people have a desire to be married, they just tell single's to "live for the Lord." What does that mean? And since when does desiring marriage mean that I am not living for the Lord?

Personally, I've been a victim of this mentality, and I had to acknowledge where I missed it. Now, I feel like we need to hear more pastors acknowledge where the church has been wrong as well. I am not agreeing with the article whole-heartedly, but I think there is a flaw in the Body of Christ surrounding this issue.


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## mrselle (Aug 11, 2010)

I haven't read the article, but I wanted to pop in and say how much I've missed you, Shimmie.  Glad to *see* you back in here.

....off to read the article....


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## Sashaa08 (Aug 11, 2010)

Shimmie!!! How I missed you!


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## CoilyFields (Aug 11, 2010)

joy2day said:


> Yay Shimmie, so glad to see you!
> 
> To the point regarding single [women] service to the church as a whole... this is one of the issues that makes me kinda feel like the church (in some instances) does (at times) keep women single. Sure, we have minds to make our own choices, but what happens when pastors and single's ministers decide that the choice in a particular congregation is continuous service for singles, because the singles aren't married and don't have so called "wordly" obligations outside of day jobs and/or school.
> 
> ...


 
I see your point about singles being over-extended sometimes but the only thing is that I think the responsiblity should not be on the Church to tell you what you can or cannot handle. 

For example...if this were _any other organization_ it would be fully and wholly the responsibility of that person to decide their limits...not the organization. If my sorority is piling duties on me that I cant  handle then its not up to them to tell me to go expand my activities...its up to me to create boundaries and stick to them...regardless of disappointments or guilt trips (which should not ever be used).

And I think the purpose behind telling singles to live for the Lord (which we should all be doing) is for them to know that whether they marry or not the Lord is thier keeper and central to their lives. He is the one to turn to until your spouse comes along to fulfill that part in your natural life. Cause lets face it...there are plenty of us women who have been so anxious for a boyfriend/man/husband that we've gone out making hasty and wrong decisions about men. Build yourself up in Christ and you will make better decisions about everything, including men.


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## joy2day (Aug 11, 2010)

CF I hear what you are saying, and as I stated, I think it should be on us as individuals to say "enough" when we are overloaded in service. I guess the only point I am trying to make is that in some congregations, people are endoctrinated into a chruch culture of being over-extended, and if we acknowledge that the church is mostly female attended, then that would mean that some sisters are being stretched way to far. And hey, let's face it, some pastors and ministers are extremely manipulative, and there are a lot of well meaning sisters in churches right now that are being manipulated for the love of the Gospel. 

I guess I am not agreeing with the analogy of comparing church as an organization with sororities/fraternities and the like, only because I am expecting a greater discernment and wisdom from the leadership in church (not that these other orgs are not governed in wisdom, but I think some may see my point). So then if wisdom is employed, more pastors should be accountable for the total well-being and development of their congregants. 

That's all I am saying, and I don't think that is too much to seek. After all, isn't that what a shepherd is supposed to do?


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## aribell (Aug 11, 2010)

Shimmie, I agree with your post way upthread that the issue essentially comes down to being one of religiosity.  I'm not even in "black church" as it were, but I think for anyone really involved in church activities, it is still very tempting to allow all the "churchy" things that we do to become like concrete structures in our lives that are inflexible and immovable, and unless someone can fit _exactly_ into the mold that we have created with our activities, they just won't fit into our lives.

So simple were Jesus' words:  Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength and love your neighbor as yourself.  He told us to do good to those in need and to not allow sin to reign in our lives.  Pure and undefiled religion is this:  to visit widows and orphans in their distress, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.  

Honestly, I know _lots _of young, single white women whose common denominator is that they are strong Christians.  Dateless and single for years.  So I can't really blame the black church for what black women are experiencing.  I think that in part it's just a temptation that we face to become Christian eggheads, able to relate only to that which coincides with our particular take on faith.  And then add in denominational commitments (i.e, he's not really a believer unless he regularly speaks in tongues) and we've drawn the line way too narrowly to be realistic.



CoilyFields said:


> *This is just another attack on the church because if a woman who was single was dedicating her time to orphanages and the cancer foundation she would be lauded for her good works rather than told to stop them and go to a club instead so she can find a man.*


 
I also agree with you CoilyFields.   There are so many other factors at play for black women.  And to the bold, that is very true.  People are taking issue with the fact that the "cause" is church, which is a cause they don't support.

Given all of this, though, I really don't see myself doing much differently.  It's a Wednesday evening, and I suppose I could be out and about, but I'm sitting here in the church office waiting for the other ladies to show up so we can have Wednesday prayer.  I think that in everything we do, we have to seek first the Kingdom and use our gifts for the benefit of the Body.  If God has gifted someone as a musician, or teacher, or pastor, then they'll be devoting a lot of their energy to church activities.  As long as the activity is coming from a place of genuine service to the Body, the Lord honors that.  

And it's been my experience (and I can only speak for myself) that godly men don't pop up everyday--whether in church or out of church.  I've met many "Christian" men, but outside of church, rarely do I encounter one who simply seeks to live his life in complete obedience to God's word.  So I don't know how fruitful it's going to be to give up a prayer service to try and go out and meet men.  I mean I've never met any lay person not employed by the church who was there _every single_ night of the week.  I think that if a woman is intentional about getting out there and doing different things, she can probably still keep her church involvement.  _The trick is going to be not to judge the man who comes along who follows God's word, but only goes on Sundays._


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## aribell (Aug 11, 2010)

Wednesday prayer is over, and I wanted to come back with a word of encouragement for you all.  Whatever you all do, give the Lord the first fruits of your life.  Are you single, attractive, and could probably be doing other things with your time?  Of course, but give the Lord the first fruits of your time and of your energy.  As Scripture says, "Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil _to the house _of the LORD your God." "_Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it."_

Okay, so recently, I have been having conversations with people that later on seem to be things that the Spirit wanted me to hear to tell other believers.  This is another such thing.  There is an older lady that I made friends with at work, older being in her mid-60s.  Very interesting and fun to talk to.  She shared a lot with me.  Two stories kept repeating themselves, though, to the point that I finally took notice.  1) She told a story of how when she was in her 20s [so this is like, 40 years ago] the choir director kept asking her to come to sing in the church choir.  For whatever reason, they practiced on Saturday nights.  She told the choir director,  "No, I have to be out on a Saturday night; I need to get myself a husband."  The choir director told her that maybe the husband was in the choir.  She said she didn't think that was the case and went about her business.  

The next thing she would mention is that she is a good matchmaker, but she's never successfully matched herself.  She would say things referencing never having had children or being single.  Not that she seemed bitter, but at one point when she told the story about turning down the choir director again (with a somewhat indignant attitude), I just thought "Hmm...maybe that's what Jesus meant when He said 'Seek ye first the Kingdom.'"  I'm not saying that I know what the Lord was or was not doing in her situation.  I'm only saying that our service to the Lord does come first.  Does everyone need to be in the choir?  No.  But we should have attitudes that place love of God first in our lives.  And if we _do_ have a gift that the Body needs, then we are called upon to exercise it.

When our ministry is done out of genuine _love_, it will nourish us and won't be just another empty thing to fill our schedules.  I Corinthians says that we could give everything that we owned, and become martyrs, but if it's not done in love, then it will be in vain.  So I say to keep serving, but just make sure that what's being done is being done in genuine love for the believers around you.


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## sidney (Aug 11, 2010)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Wednesday prayer is over, and I wanted to come back with a word of encouragement for you all. Whatever you all do, give the Lord the first fruits of your life. Are you single, attractive, and could probably be doing other things with your time? Of course, but give the Lord the first fruits of your time and of your energy. As Scripture says, "Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God." "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it."
> 
> 
> 
> ...





So I had a change of heart on this topic somewhat and I feel God basically confirmed what you typed here in my heart right before I logged on, so we are definitely on one accord.  But just to add, God hasn't forgotten about anyone.  We have to remember that this is the same God who tells us to continually lay down our lives, to keep our eyes on things above and not things on earth.  I know this isn't the popular answer, but it's a biblical one.  For many of you, it's the waiting that will bring God the most glory.  There's something to the waiting process, I can't put my finger on it but there is so much to it.  When you lay your desires down to God he will be glorified.  For some people, waiting on God is to suffer with and you will be glorified with him.  It's the waiting that will enhance your faith and bring you that much closer to him, knowing that he is able to do it.  And believe me, many will not want to do it's God way so there will be opposition, but we follow God not man. So keep serving God with all that he deserves, for he alone is worthy.  We are not here on earth to get married, we are here on earth to bring Glory to God.  Many if not all of you will be blessed with marriages that will bring glory to God so follow God's leading.....keep his kingdom first, and all these other things will be added.   Just use wisdom, and like Shimmie said, don't be spooky.


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## Raspberry (Aug 12, 2010)

You all might find this interesting:

Blogger Alisha has commentary on Deborah Cooper's assertions here:
http://far-above-rubies-and-pearls.blogspot.com/2010/06/author-claims-black-women-have-church.html

In the article comments Deborah Cooper responds: 


> Deborrah Cooper said...
> 
> Thanks for the review of my article. You got quite a few things wrong and jumped to a lot of conclusions - the top one being that I recommend that people seek answers from my book. That was YOUR assumption, not mentioned or suggested anywhere in the article.
> 
> ...



Here is Alisha's response:



> Alisha De Freitas said...
> 
> Ms. Cooper,
> 
> ...



And Deborah's final answer:


> Deborrah Cooper said...
> 
> I am not referring to ONE church in particular. I am referring to thousands of them with men in charge that fit this description. If yours doesn't, then you are in good stead. BUt think of all the women for whom this DOES apply. I did a show on this article in great depth just last night. Find it on www.blogtalkradio.com/askheartbeat. I discussed the criticisms and questions people had and answered them one by one. Might be helpful for those confused about what I really meant or what I was trying to say.
> July 11, 2010 12:48 PM


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## Laela (Aug 12, 2010)

Always consider the source ...  *_sigh_*


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## Raspberry (Aug 12, 2010)

Laela said:


> Always consider the source ...  *_sigh_*



Ms. Cooper brings up _some_ interesting points but her agenda of denouncing Christianity and churchgoing black men/women as a whole clouds them and she doesn't offer viable solutions for most single Christian women. If you read the comments on the original article and the subsequent follow-up article on her blog you get a better picture of where she's coming from.  She's really not the one to lead these discussions in a healthy way. 

http://survivingdating.com/black-ch...-keep-african-american-women-single-and-alone

http://survivingdating.com/black-church-and-single-black-women

She uses a lot of harsh and belittling language when talking about this subject and debating with people who disagree with her. I wouldn't take advice on nearly anything related to love and relationships from a woman with her attitude. I also don't agree with her general worldview or particular interpretations of feminism - she has nothing I can use.


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## Laela (Aug 12, 2010)

Diva,

I had to come back to your post because of all what has been said in this thread, this post hit my spirit the most. I'll tell you why... it all comes down to LOVE. You hit the nail right on the head. 

WHO is Love? GOD.

From my understanding, Love is an action word. We can say we "love" folks all day til we're blue in the face but if that "intention" isn't propelled to action, was it really love? I firmly believe that a marriage without God in it will have two unhappy people in it. God created marriage for man. For it to operate and function properly, LOVE must exist. Eros and Phileo love are there, too,  but it's the AGAPE Love that is the glue that keeps me and my husband together. 

Same with the "Church"...Jesus Christ is Husband, the Church the bride. His relationship with an individual is only as good as His involvement in their life.

The article is pointing fingers left and right and overlooking one thing: PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY

God bless you for that post, I'd received it in the Spirit you delivered it. Pure Agape Love. Amen





GoddessMaker said:


> This is my last little input Im not some super holy person or some lady but I was thinking while cooking a second ago and thought marriage is only good when your in love with the person I mean my mother and stepfather are in a loveless marriage.She is always sad and depressed.I feel it's why she is on meds.A single person can only be happy in that if they are happy and don't desire marriage or companionship as the be all end all.Im a single person that is miserable because I desire marriage and just unhappy because I have no love in my self relationship..I hope the ladies out there who are married are in a loved filled marriage.Love will make you cook for someone after a long day at work while been on your feet for 12 hour day.Love for your singleness will be taking care of yourself if you have old wounds that need to heal.
> 
> Just my 2 cents for someone who wants joy since I will be single for life.


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## Laela (Aug 12, 2010)

And I appreciate you lifting that rock and posting this....



Raspberry said:


> Ms. Cooper brings up _some_ interesting points but her agenda of denouncing Christianity and churchgoing black men/women as a whole clouds them and she doesn't offer viable solutions for most single Christian women. If you read the comments on the original article and the subsequent follow-up article on her blog you get a better picture of where she's coming from.  She's really not the one to lead these discussions in a healthy way.
> 
> http://survivingdating.com/black-ch...-keep-african-american-women-single-and-alone
> 
> ...


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## michc (Aug 12, 2010)

I haven't read the article yet - but  just wanted to post because SHIMMIE IS BACK :blowkiss:

Can you tell that I'm glad? 

Ok..going to read the article now


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## nathansgirl1908 (Aug 12, 2010)

The minute I read that Cooper declared that she is not "strictly religious," I didn't give credit to anything else she had to say. I felt that her tone in the article was one of criticism of devout churchgoers.  I honestly don't even see a correlation. 

The issue for marriage concerning Black women is Black men.  THAT is where the blame lies.  They are slow to commit. They want to get everything in a wife without actually making her a wife.  

But I will say that many single women in the church WILL decide to set their stakes on the minister and actively set out to "get him." But other than that I don't think the church is keeping Black women single.


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## Do_Si_Dos (Aug 12, 2010)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> The minute I read that Cooper declared that she is not "strictly religious," I didn't give credit to anything else she had to say. I felt that her tone in the article was one of criticism of devout churchgoers. I honestly don't even see a correlation.
> 
> The issue for marriage concerning Black women is Black men. THAT is where the blame lies. They are slow to commit. They want to get everything in a wife without actually making her a wife.
> 
> *But I will say that many single women in the church WILL decide to set their stakes on the minister and actively set out to "get him."* But other than that I don't think the church is keeping Black women single.


 

And we all know that can be pure foolishness.


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## nathansgirl1908 (Aug 12, 2010)

Do_Si_Dos said:


> And we all know that can be pure foolishness.



And then they start volunteering more in the church.  But once he gets married, they suddenly lose interest in helping out.  I've even seen them leave the church.


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## Vonnieluvs08 (Aug 15, 2010)

The more everyone posts about this issue the more I feel sorry for and empathy for Ms. Cooper (the writer, right?)  She obviously has been hurt by a particular local church and this is her way of lashing out.  She may have been one of those ladies trying to get the pastor or some other prominent leader of the church but it didn't work out.  All of her articles and comments seem to come from a women scorned by a "man of God" and now she has severe loathing of the "church", God, and "men of God" to a point that she wants other women to follow in her footsteps.  I would pray that God would call on her life and reveal himself to her once again and start a healing process that only He can accomplish.

I do agree that there are probably some church leaders that take advantage of single women esp those that give off that desperate vibe of wanting to be seen and put them in every ministry in the church (women's, infants, children, singles, choir, hospitality, etc).

I do agree that women who look for men in church seem to be in of one of two categories.  1.  They only (using this loosely) come to church looking for a man. 2.  They haven't met Christian men in other circles/events/functions and hope he is at church.  I believe the women in #2 are already Christian and attend a local church and this is just one more desire of where they attend.  Honestly I started going to my church in hopes of finding a man since the other church I was visiting only had older couples (40 and above) or children.  But God in his sovereignty put me in my church to be fed the Word well, to serve, and to find good Christian role models (both female and male, married and single) and friendships.

I also agree that there must be balance in our lives in all aspects of our lives.  I believe in order to be a good wife you must demonstrate a love for Christ that penetrates all aspects of your life which will lead to a healthy balance.  

Shimmie---I am glad you are back.  Your loving spirit was missed.  Praying for you and your family.


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## Spring (Aug 16, 2010)

I think she was using the video of the man saying that the man should be the "only" one to pursue a relationship, to base her opinion of the message sent to women.

The man in the video would have huge problems with Naomi's advice to Ruth to sleep at the foot of Boaz


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## Spring (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi again ladies  

just to clarify, I don't suggest women place themselves in a place of temptation because of Ruth...


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## Bubblingbrownshuga (Aug 26, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> I'm 'torn' as well, Precious "Do-Si-Dos'.
> 
> You know what? When I saw this title, it hit me so strongly. I have a strong conviction in my heart, because I know that a lot of what wasn't written in this article, yet still related to the subject, is true.
> 
> ...


 

Ummm, are you going to write a book? Deep.


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 28, 2011)

Had to bump this oldie but goodie


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## Guitarhero (Sep 1, 2011)

Bumping because of the other thread.   Is the Black traditional christian family becoming obsolete?  There must be something more to it regarding AA women and singlehood in the church than just lack of leadership to provide the opportunities for matchmaking of superior individuals.  *What is happening here?  Is it just choices or have women become disillusioned with the prospects of marriage? *  Be truthful, is it the desire to become a martyr for Christ in the sense you are working 24 hrs. a day in a ministry or is it actually because you are disillusioned of marriage (failed examples in the community) and want full freedoms from male dominance?    For example, not solely divorce, but the super mom complex or super wife who is high professional at work and reverts to subservient at home?  I don't believe it's any big fault of the Black church trying to keep them single and stuffing the collection plate.  I think it's a conscious decision of many women for the reasons stated.


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## Love Always (Sep 1, 2011)

This is a good bump. Has anyone experienced this, their pastor telling them who they shouldn't date? I asked this because many Pastors literally tell the single women at their churches this and many of these women really take what their pastor has to say to heart and further more many of these women stay single .

As a whole I wanted to know if you know of anyone where their pastor is really involved in the lives of single Christian women? Can we discuss this?


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## Rainbow Dash (Sep 1, 2011)

Love Always said:


> This is a good bump. Has anyone experienced this, their pastor telling them who they shouldn't date? I asked this because many Pastors literally tell the single women at their churches this and many of these women really take what their pastor has to say to heart and further more many of these women stay single .
> 
> As a whole I wanted to know if you know of anyone where their pastor is really involved in the lives of single Christian women? Can we discuss this?



I know a single lady where the pastor and his wife are really involved in her life. She desires a husband but it has to be someone that is approved by the pastor and his wife.
She met a man, it did not go far because she wants a man just like her pastor.  She wants marriage just like the pastor. Her life revolves around the physical church. She also expects her husband to join her church. Sometimes it sad to see her when she gets down, she really wants to be married.

Sent from my LS670 using LS670


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## Guitarhero (Sep 2, 2011)

My church has single support groups and they plan activities but it seems that it's rather geared towards finding mates.  Divorce groups are also opportunities for dating or just plain healing and living single and successful.  Maybe it's that the culture where I worship is very heavily pro-marriage...I'm surprised tho with the Black Church, I'd have guessed that most women were moving towards marriage.  It's not just that it's hard to find a good Black man, but that maybe it's truly a multi-faceted problem where many are disillusioned and don't want that path.  I can't blame 'em looking at the stats and types of relationships around.


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## aribell (Sep 3, 2011)

Love Always said:


> This is a good bump. Has anyone experienced this, their pastor telling them who they shouldn't date? I asked this because many Pastors literally tell the single women at their churches this and many of these women really take what their pastor has to say to heart and further more many of these women stay single .
> 
> As a whole I wanted to know* if you know of anyone where their pastor is really involved in the lives of single Christian women?* Can we discuss this?



erplexed Maybe we should pause and consider what might be going on in such a scenario... (seriously, though, no sarcasm intended.)

People cannot foist responsibility for their lives onto anyone else, including the church.  Neither a pastor nor his wife have the right to control the choices of women in the congregation.  Now, the pastor can hold women accountable for sin in their life, but beyond issues of sin, if a pastor is trying to call the shots in a woman's life it is an indication of control/manipulation.

Many people, and more specifically, women, are more into the religious system of church than they are into the living God--Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Everything they do revolves around an institutional structure rather than simple obedience to God's word.  That is a dangerous place to be in because while the Lord will be faithful to those who follow Him (and Him alone), there's no guarantee what will happen to you if you start following after man.  That's how people end up on a street corner proclaiming the end of the world, with no money and nowhere to live because they gave it to some guy who claimed contrary to Scripture that he knew when the world would end.

If you walk with the Lord, you will receive your answer from the Lord.  But if you find yourself feeling like an institution or group of people are dominating your life and the choices you make and the outcome of your life, then they probably are being given too much influence.


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## Guitarhero (Sep 3, 2011)

I think the expectations and desires of many are the result of some cultural shift where the church WAS the place where singles came together with the matchmaking of family and acquaintances.  I have a feeling that people are standing there wondering what has changed.  That.  In many cultures, your spiritual walk is very much tied into your family.  These days with great assimilation into western white culture, you're expected to go all of it alone.


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## Love Always (Sep 4, 2011)

nicola.kirwan, totally agree with everything you stated. What I quoted was what I was trying to get at but I did pose the question because I've seen this happened and wanted to know if anyone else has seen this happen as well. I too agree that it's control.

I seen it where these women put their Pastors to a high degree and literally adhere to everything they say to these women . By saying that I believed it ties into the topic at hand but these women are allowing it to happen because they don't have a mind of their own. 



> People cannot foist responsibility for their lives onto anyone else, including the church.  Neither a pastor nor his wife have the right to control the choices of women in the congregation.  Now, the pastor can hold women accountable for sin in their life, but beyond issues of sin, if a pastor is trying to call the shots in a woman's life it is an indication of control/manipulation.


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