# UK School to Put Witchcraft & Druids on Religious Education Syllabus



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 17, 2012)

*London, Apr 15 : Schools in Britain are set to include paganism in their official religious education syllabus for the first time.*

Cornwall Council has told its schools that pagan beliefs, which include witchcraft, druidism and the worship of ancient gods such as Thor, should be taught alongside Christianity, Islam and Judaism, the Daily Mail reported.

The requirements are spelled out in an agreed syllabus drawn up by Cornwall's RE advisory group.

It says that from the age of five, children should begin learning about standing stones, such as Stonehenge. At the age of 11, pupils can begin exploring "modern paganism and its importance for many in Cornwall."

The syllabus adds that areas of study should include "the importance of pre-Christian sites for modern pagans."

An accompanying guide says that pupils should "understand the basic beliefs" of paganism and suggests children could discuss the difficulties a practising pagan pupil might face in school.

But the council's initiative has dismayed some Christian campaigners, who are alarmed that a religion once regarded as a fringe eccentricity is increasingly gaining official recognition.

Critics point out that according to the council's own estimates there are only between 600 and 750 pagans in Cornwall out of a total population of 537,400.

"Religious education is squeezed already – there's barely enough time to cover Christianity and the other major religions," Mike Judge, Christian Institute spokesman, said.

"Introducing paganism is just faddish and has more to do with the political correctness of teachers than the educational needs of children," he said.

However, Neil Burden, the council's cabinet member for children's services, said that the move would give children "access to the broad spectrum of religious beliefs."

Cornwall Council's initiative follows the 2010 decision by the Charity Commission to recognise druidism as a religion. (ANI)

http://www.newkerala.com/news/newsplus/worldnews-6393.html


----------



## Laela (Apr 17, 2012)

Really?? erplexed this should be good... be back...


----------



## Blairx0 (Apr 17, 2012)

Sounds good to me. In a public setting it seems all relgions should ne treated equally. I think it will help create an informed world view.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2012)

In Jesus' Naaaahhhhmmm '*mah' ! ! ! * ... In Jesus' Name...

*In Jesus' Holy and Matchless Name*

The Name at which ALL devil's tremble and know their place in HELL which is REAL !

I see some 'millstones' lined up; for it's better than to mislead and bring harm to a child, especially their precious little souls.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2012)

Blairx0 said:


> Sounds good to me. In a public setting it seems all relgions should ne treated equally.
> 
> *I think it will help create an informed world view.*



No it won't...


----------



## smwrigh3 (Apr 17, 2012)

Not my child....


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2012)

Laela said:


> Really?? erplexed this should be good... be back...



Laela and Iwanthealthyhair67 .....

I'm being good and I'm going to bed...  

When I come back ...


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2012)

smwrigh3 said:


> Not my child....





Nor my babies as well.   I'm in no mood for foolishness.


----------



## Blairx0 (Apr 17, 2012)

It's a public school right? If so, they should devote equal time to all influencial systems of belifs and parents should fill in the rest. I think knowing more about other faiths has enhanced my understanding of Christian principles and other people I encounter. I don't think think learning about it is equally to influencing their choice. Good for those well-rounded students. And if you don't want to expose your child to that for whatever reason there are likely area private schools or home school opitions that cater more to a more selective set of educational desires


----------



## auparavant (Apr 18, 2012)

Eh, but it comes from the British Isles traditionally.  I remember when folks were up in arms against kids learning about Islam.  As long as your kid knows who he is...it's like sex ed.  They are teaching your kids it's ok.  But if it's not ok within the confines of your home and you teach your children well, then you've done your duty.


----------



## Laela (Apr 18, 2012)

It is a public school, yes.. not sure how the laws are in UK now but from my understanding of public schools is we all contribute our taxes to the education of our children and as such, also have a right to express what they shouldn't be taught. Not everyone can afford private school or homeschool. So what are those parents to do? Here in the US children in PS can exempt themselves from the Pledge of Allegiance due to religious beliefs...so if a Christian wants to exclude their child from those "courses" they should be afforded the right to do so. Besides, paganism, the Druids are a part of history courses already, and have been taught in schools for years; so why the shift to just the religion. 

@ the bolded, that you are right.. for children they are influential systems of beliefs...and if they are taught one thing at home and another at school, that would cause conflict and confusion. Being well-rounded doesn't mean being exposed to all types of doctrines, without a leg to stand on. Parents always have an inalienable right to protect their own children how they see fit.




Blairx0 said:


> It's a public school right? If so, they should devote equal time to all *influencial systems of belifs* and parents should fill in the rest. I think knowing more about other faiths has enhanced my understanding of Christian principles and other people I encounter. I don't think think learning about it is equally to influencing their choice. Good for those well-rounded students. And if you don't want to expose your child to that for whatever reason there are likely area private schools or home school opitions that cater more to a more selective set of educational desires


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Apr 18, 2012)

What? 

I hope this foolishness stays in the UK.

They better not come over in the US with this. They take prayer out of school but want to condone this mess

Parents educate your children on the teachings of the gospel because they have a spiritual warfare going on in those schools!!!


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 18, 2012)

Blairx0 said:


> It's a public school right? If so, they should devote equal time to all influencial systems of belifs and parents should fill in the rest. I think knowing more about other faiths has enhanced my understanding of Christian principles and other people I encounter. I don't think think learning about it is equally to influencing their choice. Good for those well-rounded students. And if you don't want to expose your child to that for whatever reason there are likely area private schools or home school opitions that cater more to a more selective set of educational desires



Do you realize what the Word of God has to say about witchcraft.  God isn't in approval of this, not one bit.   

Being a public school doesn't validate teaching witchcraft to innocent children; especially teaching it to them as a viable 'option' and addressing witchcraft as harmless and without dire consequences. 

*The penality for witchcraft is death! *  Is this what you call 'well rounded'?  witchcraft also entails drug use, mind control, sexual impropriety ... sexual sin.   Is this what children should be taught?    The spirit of witchcraft is rebellion against God and it is totally guaranteed that the instructors will use their negative and deadly influence to convince the innococent minds of children that it is okay to mix witchcraft with any other faith they have.  

I don't give a rat's tail or a witch's broom about the foolish conception that this is well rounded teaching.   Well rounded for what?    That's a lie straight from hell and total deception of anyone who believes it.   

And I am just getting started.  I come against the spirit of deception in Jesus' name!


----------



## auparavant (Apr 18, 2012)

Be fair, folx.  I don't think anyone is against opting out.  You can opt your kids out of sex education.  But if you give preference to one religious group, you gotta give chance to all in a democratic society.  These people are exercising their rights, just like christians.  Ultimately, it's what you teach your kids.  One day, they will work at a job with wicca people etc.  Gonna tell them to run from it?  No, you stand on your own beliefs but that doesn't mean discrimination is appropriate.  Well, this is the society that's been created.


----------



## Blairx0 (Apr 18, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Do you realize what the Word of God has to say about witchcraft.  God isn't in approval of this, not one bit.
> 
> Being a public school doesn't validate teaching witchcraft to innocent children; especially teaching it to them as a viable 'option' and addressing witchcraft as harmless and without dire consequences.
> 
> ...



Yes i do realize God calls to have no others before him, but simply informing children others have different views doesnt diminish what you teach in your house. I think it is a schools' obligation to teach children facts. One of those facts are difference of beliefs. it is a parents job to teach kids how to use and interpret said facts. If you think the teacher is trying to push an agenda you can do something from sitting in the classroom during the leason, keeping your child home, send your child to a different school or just teaching your children how to best interpret the information. The article doesn't sound like thwy are prompting any faith more so than the others but simply stating the facts as they are recorded. I don't think mentioning something is the same as persuading, manipulating, or convincing.


----------



## sweetvi (Apr 18, 2012)

Well they will be sitting in class being fed this nonsense with their peers....then eventually what happens?   If their friends start showing interest and gets involved in this... Peer pressure majority of the time trumps any values or principles taught by parents.


----------



## Laela (Apr 18, 2012)

What is there to be fair about?  We're in a Christian forum.. Wicca has been around since the start of the century..the Druids been around eons and are known to oppose Christianity. Where were the schools concerning these two all this time? Why now? hmmm....









auparavant said:


> Be fair, folx.  I don't think anyone is against opting out.  You can opt your kids out of sex education.  But if you give preference to one religious group, you gotta give chance to all in a democratic society.  These people are exercising their rights, just like christians.  Ultimately, it's what you teach your kids.  One day, they will work at a job with wicca people etc.  Gonna tell them to run from it?  No, you stand on your own beliefs but that doesn't mean discrimination is appropriate.  Well, this is the society that's been created.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 18, 2012)

Blairx0 said:


> Yes i do realize God calls to have no others before him, but simply informing children others have different views doesnt diminish what you teach in your house. I think it is a schools' obligation to teach children facts. One of those facts are difference of beliefs. it is a parents job to teach kids how to use and interpret said facts. If you think the teacher is trying to push an agenda you can do something from sitting in the classroom during the leason, keeping your child home, send your child to a different school or just teaching your children how to best interpret the information. The article doesn't sound like thwy are prompting any faith more so than the others but simply stating the facts as they are recorded. I don't think mentioning something is the same as persuading, manipulating, or convincing.



You're defending satanism.   It's guaranteed that these schools will present witchcraft as an option.   

And yes, while at home we DO teach our children the difference, however they are still innocent souls; their spirits are open and they are still quite impressionable.   

Your 'options' still do not validate what God forbids being taught to children.   YOU may agree to it but God does not and He's not changing.  

So guess who's wrong and needs to fall in line with His Word?    Just because you don't have nor see a problem with it lines it up *against* the the Will of God.   Why be in opposition to God's Word on purpose?   He said No!  No matter what man thinks is right about it, God still says, No!   Obviously God has a reason which far outweighs what anyone else thinks is right about it. 

What you and others think to support this issue doesn't matter; it never will.   It's the Will of God that takes authority not witchcraft.


----------



## Blairx0 (Apr 18, 2012)

So does that just describe wiccab information or all religions? I see your point and you have every right to be upset. Parents attempting to rasie their children in other faiths may share your feelings in regards to schools teaching only or predominately Christian things. I just think if you open the door for one faith in a public school you can not be selective. One means all in the public sector. Which is why despite my beliefs I would have to respect others with the same respect I demand. If it got to the point were I felt attention was not being divided equally or my children were being sold a product I would opt out of participation or find a school more aligned with my interest.

I don't think it is a matter of supporting any other belief system, but recognizing just as schools are to accomdate different learning styles in an effort to promote equality so they must with faiths--regardless if I believe my faith is superior to others. Sighs. Some may not, understandably, like it , but if toy become selective with faith teaching you must also in teaching of other things


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 18, 2012)

Blairx0 said:


> So does that just describe wiccab information or all religions? I see your point and you have every right to be upset. Parents attempting to rasie their children in other faiths may share your feelings in regards to schools teaching only or predominately Christian things. I just think if you open the door for one faith in a public school you can not be selective. One means all in the public sector. Which is why despite my beliefs I would have to respect others with the same respect I demand. If it got to the point were I felt attention was not being divided equally or my children were being sold a product I would opt out of participation or find a school more aligned with my interest.
> 
> I don't think it is a matter of supporting any other belief system, but recognizing just as schools are to accomdate different learning styles in an effort to promote equality so they must with faiths--regardless if I believe my faith is superior to others. Sighs. Some may not, understandably, like it , but if toy become selective with faith teaching you must also in teaching of other things



How long will you halt between two opinions?   If God be God honour (serve) Him, if baal be god serve him.    You can't honour both.    There is no in between.    There is no acceptance of both; no man can serve two masters, he (she) will love one and hate the other.  

It's God or witchcraft.   God didn't call us to 'respect' it.    We're called to respect Him and for one who 'calls' themselves a Christian there should be no acceptance of witchcraft which is not a religion.   

There's no multiple choice with God.  It's God or nothing... period.   

Your heart is not with God.  It's divided.  You're giving credence to what God calls evil.   You cannot say you love God and yet leave an open door to what He has clearly commanded 'we' who truly honour Him, to steer clear of.  

Sooner or later, you're going to have to stop making up excuses and choose one or the other.   You cannot have it both ways.   You're either hot or cold.  For God totally or against Him.    The choice is yours.    No exceptions.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 18, 2012)

Laela said:


> What is there to be fair about?  We're in a Christian forum.. Wicca has been around since the start of the century..the Druids been around eons and are known to oppose Christianity.
> 
> *
> Where were the schools concerning these two all this time? Why now? hmmm....*



Up until now, folks had the guts to take a stand for what was right, just and honourable with God.

Now...    

I've had it with unnecessary weakness.   Folks who know better and yet they're yielded to every wind and doctrine, knowing it's wrong.  PC'ing their souls into darkness and misleading others with them.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 19, 2012)

Laela said:


> What is there to be fair about?  We're in a Christian forum.. Wicca has been around since the start of the century..the Druids been around eons and are known to oppose Christianity. Where were the schools concerning these two all this time? Why now? hmmm....



To know that people are not (reiterating) against christians being able to opt out...I've stated it.  The reasoning they are doing it now?  Cuz it's popular and this is their time.  It's all over television.  I have kids...believe me, I'm not naive.  But this is the environment they are growing up in with opposing morals surrounding them against what I teach them, as well as opposing religious views.  I have to remain in prayer and positive action to teach them.  Ultimately, it's their own choice how they end up in life.  But if I have done my job, I cannot run inside and lock all the doors, hoping they will remain cloistered.  They will eventually _have_ to live with such people in society, get out there and get the stink off 'em.  It's truly no different than us being christians now.  Look at the world.  

We know the truth, what G-d is requiring and so we live it to the best of our abilities.  But it doesn't give me the right to discriminate against another, especially if it is the law (we are to obey the law unless it is anti-life). That's why I made sure to state that this is the type of society that has been created in a democratic environment.  It's simply the breaks.  Does it feel dangerous?  Absolutely.  But I didn't bring myself into this world...even not my kids...it was ordained by G-d...and we all have to live through it all.  He is with us until the very end and we should not live in fear.  I do know the sentiment of horror, though.  But unless it's something like genocide etc., I don't know how we are going to be able to justify denying them their religious expression.  Remember the constitution.  It was an open gate.


ETA:  Remaining calm and rational and looking into the legal aspects  does not equate with leading people to hell.  It likewise doesn't equate with one yielding to every wind and doctrine.  Like I said before, homebase is where it's at.  We are responsible for teaching our children first.  I can't help the drug addicts, immoral people and fase doctrine out there in the schools, even private religious schools who attend alongside my kids.  It WWMD?  "Mom"  She will teach her children first, but discrimination is not a value.


----------



## Kurlee (Apr 19, 2012)

oh hell no!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Crown (Apr 19, 2012)

auparavant said:


> ETA:  Remaining calm and rational and looking into the legal aspects  does not equate with leading people to hell.  It likewise doesn't equate with one yielding to every wind and doctrine.






Let’s be real:

1-Public school is what it is: public school.

2-Who are ruling the nations? (I am not talking about the sovereignty of God)

  3-What are the beliefs of the majority?


We can pray: Father, if it is possible, may this teaching stay away from my country or my area.
Years ago, Christians could fight for their rights and win.
But, nowadays, the reality is different.

We can talk about it all day long, complain and mourn. We can stand for the truth.

But human rights are for all, Christians or not (although we know the consequences of some rights).

If you(general) are living in today’s societies, you have to make compromises, not in your house (the Scriptures clearly say: come out of her, my people), but in the public area whose is for ALL.
That’s the reality of our time.

Those events are announcing that the deliverance is near.

Maranatha!
Come LORD!


----------



## gn1g (Apr 19, 2012)

::shouts::  *J E S U S!*


----------



## Laela (Apr 19, 2012)

*Proverbs 29:2*
_When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn._





Crown said:


> Let’s be real:
> 
> 1-Public school is what it is: public school.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crown (Apr 19, 2012)

Laela said:


> *Proverbs 29:2*
> _When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn._


It's time for mourning.


----------



## Detroit2Dallas (Apr 19, 2012)

Harry Potter made it seem harmless, they can keep that out of the US, home schooling is an option I'm open to consider


----------



## auparavant (Apr 19, 2012)

For some of us, the "wicked" ruling began long before the public school systems in the West giving general religious history studies.  It's a subjective matter and I don't intend to be afraid of it.  Again, it doesn't mean that people here in this thread are misleading others.  Some people just like to take a calm approach to these types of issues.


----------



## Laela (Apr 20, 2012)

auparavant, nice try but God has not given us a Spirit of fear, so there is no need to intimate that anyone here is being fearful because they are rejecting something that clearly opposes Almighty God. Passivity has adverse effects....

I'd bet Kurlee was calm when she  said "hell no"


----------



## CoilyFields (Apr 20, 2012)

Ok bear with me...this is my "stream of consciousness" type reply lol

This is a greater question of tolerance. Though I will not "persecute" someone of another faith/belief system, do I not extend to them the same *rights *that I have? If I want my religion taught in school...do I say *yes to all *or risk saying no to some (which may result in mine being banned also?)

And I do see this as being an *all or nothing* argument. If they teach about no religions it may also be depriving a child of their first introduction to Christianity...but then again,as taught in school, do I believe that the teachers will teach Christianity correctly or will it just be lumped in with others as "mythology" and discarded? (hurting more than helping)

 Witchcraft has such a harsh connotation...but then...what about the other religions that we are silent about? is Judaism or Islam not as much of a threat? What about Hinduism? Is there an uproar about these being taught in school? I went to a private school so I can't speak about the public sector but we learned about all of the "major world religions". It was taught from a historical viewpoint and was informative (it sparked my interest in Christian apologetics) giving me my first and only knowledge about how other religions operate. (its not something we learn about in Sunday School lol). I grouped it with a lot of the other information that I learned that I dont live by but would be helpful to know about at some point in life.

But then...hearing this Wicca...I was just reminded about Homosexual marriage. I believe it is wrong according to the Word of God and I do not want to extend the "same rights" to them as I enjoy.  I will freely "descriminate" in the arena of marriage. We as Christians are called to establish Gods word in the earth. I definately dont want them to add Wicca to the curriculum but if I had to choose between accepting ALL being taught or none...ok Im still not sure! lol Im leaning toward banning them all...because once again...this will eventually come down to "teach all or teach none."


----------



## Crown (Apr 20, 2012)

Laela said:


> @auparavant, nice try but God has not given us a Spirit of fear, so there is no need to intimate that anyone here is being fearful because they are rejecting something that clearly opposes Almighty God. Passivity has adverse effects....
> 
> I'd bet Kurlee was calm when she  said "hell no"


Laela, I thing she is saying someone can be bold on this subject and someone else can choose to have a calm approach with the same spirit of no fear. A calm approach does not mean being not with God 

For example, I know the Word of God about witchcraft. I am against those sorts of beliefs.
But, we are talking about public school, right?

I can stand for the truth.
But, what about the majority?

Public school - human rights!

My question, as in CoilyFields post, the reality being what it is:
Do I prefer a public area with no religious aspect at all?
Or do I prefer a public area with all religious aspects?
perplexederplexed


----------



## auparavant (Apr 20, 2012)

Laela said:


> @auparavant, nice try but God has not given us a Spirit of fear, so there is no need to intimate that anyone here is being fearful because they are rejecting something that clearly opposes Almighty God. Passivity has adverse effects....
> 
> I'd bet Kurlee was calm when she said "hell no"


 

Nice try of what? There was no need for anyone to imply that those who look into this rationally are leading others to hell. Step back and look at the thread and take the emotion out of your eyes...it's not hard to see. 



Crown said:


> @Laela, I thing she is saying someone can be bold on this subject and *someone else can choose to have a calm approach with the same spirit of no fear. A calm approach does not mean being not with God *
> 
> For example, I know the Word of God about witchcraft. I am against those sorts of beliefs.
> But, we are talking about public school, right?
> ...


 
Thank you. I'm simply saying that this is the type of society we have and it'll be difficult to push one side and not allow the other given the fact that this who we have become today.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 20, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> Ok bear with me...this is my "stream of consciousness" type reply lol
> 
> This is a greater question of tolerance. Though I will not "persecute" someone of another faith/belief system, do I not extend to them the same *rights *that I have? If I want my religion taught in school...do I say *yes to all *or risk saying no to some (which may result in mine being banned also?)
> 
> ...


 

This certainly taps into some thoughts I have about evangelization. I don't want anybody beating me over the head with their sacred texts nor yelling in my face and accosting me with their viewpoints anymore than they would want me to do the same to them. However, there's a fine point of evangelization of the good news. I want to find the right place in that. BTW, I get evangelized daily by well-meaning folks who are a pain in the tuchis cuz I'm not converting to their faith...ever. But I'm nice to them. If the tables were turned, they'd not like it if I became them but on a different theological point of view. I guess the thing for _me_ to do is to live it in my own life and make right daily with my G-d, not worrying about imperfections. Stuff like that can render a person religious crazy, sweating over every little thing lol. Doesn't mean we don't take a stand in something but I've been around enough witches/wicca to smell them out, even former ones...even those who are now christians but still hold onto the "spirit of manipulation" as they've not dealt with that part of the soul yet and they don't scare me. I used to think they would but they don't. Shrugs. I've seen a lot of evil things in this life but He was always there to preserve, bless and protect. Abhorred about this? Yes, a bit, but I realize that, well, it's a republic and I'm not the only citizen. So, I'm glad you asked the question. Lots of people are wondering about these types of issues and where we should stand. It seems that it differs depending upon the personality, life experiences, expectations and fears. Mind you, everyone has fear in their life. This just doesn't happen to be one of mine (no casting shade on anyone, just my own personality).


----------



## auparavant (Apr 20, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> What you and others think *to support this issue* doesn't matter; it never will. It's the Will of God that takes authority not witchcraft.


 

I don't think that's what people are doing....stating the obvious is not supporting wicca and its teaching in schools. I pay school taxes and there are many things I'd rather they not have in the school curricula. Maybe you missed the part that people will train their children the way to go in their own homes? When they step outside the door, am I to protest the society creation of hippety-hoppity and poor values allowed in general?  But it's all around them? Extortion, rape, violence, stealing etc. We're still in the same world.

This is rather linked to the private school/pregnant teacher issue...when it's a private institution because you can write the rules in group. As a public one, there's only so far anyone can go to bring everyone on the same page as it is the nature of the public realm to be neutral. 

See, when I think of the founding of this country and the so-called "christian" values when these people were murdering my people, makes me wonder why most consider this founding a "christian" nation...but then issues such as these come up in centuries later and we're up in arms. It doesn't seem right. I don't think this has EVER been a "christian" nation. I know what you mean and sense how you feel but how is it going to be viable today aside from rallying against it in a christian minority that would oppose it? What if a minority of people protest it in your own school district and get no results? What to do then? Would you care to expand this discussion and include pragmatic solutions???  I remember you saying previously that you worked with an org. that presented to congress/representatives.


----------



## Maayen (Apr 20, 2012)

Witchcraft is being taught in the UK bc it is part of the history, culture and religious traditions of the UK .

The end.

As a Christian myself I do not even see this as an issue.  If I went to live in the middle east or Asia I would not be up in arms that they were teaching my kids about Mohammed or Buddha.  In fact they even teach about Islam, Judaism and other organised religions as part of a lot of UK religious education Syllabi.

Wether we like it or not paganism is an organised and recognised religion within the UK which ironically derives 'some' of its roots in Christianity (although not directly).

Paganism was part of my syllabus when I went to school (a Catholic School with Jesuit Priests and Nuns wearing habits no less) and I can testify that I did not turn into a blood vial wearing devil worshipper.  If the truth be told it enriched my view of life and encouraged me to study theology later on and thereby develop a deeper view of my own religious beliefs.

Most societies are organised around religious beliefs and the UK in the middle ages was no different.  The choice of religion was paganism.  

Also I do not see why it is an issue to the US ladies here given that  this is a issue which applies squarely to the UK.

Finally I will just state that I detest 'The Daily Tory Rag' AKA the Daily Mail.  This is probably one of the most racist and sensationalist newspapers in the UK so please take everything they print with a pinch of salt.  Please read a more credible source such as the Times, Independent, or guardian for a more balanced view of this story.  They are making it sound like these things are already not on the syllabus when indeed they are.  They forget that we had to learn about Bodicea and Joan D'Arc.

ETA:  This thread demonstrates that this subject needs to be on the syllabus.  The interchangeable use of the words "wicca" and paganism is alarming.  Wicca is a modern movement whilst paganism relates to the original non-christian people who did not respond to the medieval Catholic inquisitions in England in the 1100's and later the inquisitions of Henry VIII when he formed the church of England.  Because they held on to the last outposts of their beliefs (as in every developing society) i.e. superstition etc they were called pagans.  Withcraft is something completely different.  And there lies the HUGE danger in citing the Daily Tory Rag as a valid and credible source.  

I have seen similar headlines with "Schools to teach Black History as part of the syllabus expressing equal disgust that "English" History is being pushed off the syllabus and vexation that we "get a whole month to ourselves" i.e. Black History month.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2012)

auparavant said:


> I don't think that's what people are doing....stating the obvious is not supporting wicca and its teaching in schools. I pay school taxes and there are many things I'd rather they not have in the school curricula. Maybe you missed the part that people will train their children the way to go in their own homes? When they step outside the door, am I to protest the society creation of hippety-hoppity and poor values allowed in general?  But it's all around them? Extortion, rape, violence, stealing etc. We're still in the same world.
> 
> This is rather linked to the private school/pregnant teacher issue...when it's a private institution because you can write the rules in group. As a public one, there's only so far anyone can go to bring everyone on the same page as it is the nature of the public realm to be neutral.
> 
> See, when I think of the founding of this country and the so-called "christian" values when these people were murdering my people, makes me wonder why most consider this founding a "christian" nation...but then issues such as these come up in centuries later and we're up in arms. It doesn't seem right. I don't think this has EVER been a "christian" nation. I know what you mean and sense how you feel but how is it going to be viable today aside from rallying against it in a christian minority that would oppose it? What if a minority of people protest it in your own school district and get no results? What to do then? Would you care to expand this discussion and include pragmatic solutions???  I remember you saying previously that you worked with an org. that presented to congress/representatives.



Bottomline:

Why would a Christian support/advocate/defend teaching witchcraft to young impressionable children KNOWING that it is against the order let alone the love of God?     

Why?

When a person becomes a Christian, a change of heart takes place.    One no longer advocates nor supports the sins and evils of the world.   They fall in love with God who loves them beyond any measure.   In this love, they want to do only those things which please and honour God.    

Do sincere Christians fail?  Of course they do.  However, it is purposed in their hearts not stay where God is not; it is purposed in their hearts to do what brings honour to God and not to the god of this world who is satan.

witchcraft is straight up satanic, it and all of it's demonic riturals which have lead people to total destruction.    Why would anyone who says they are Christian even dare to cross that line... KNOWING how demonic and wrong it is and to call it being well-rounded.  

God has made it clear to everyone, what children are to be taught; witchcraft is not in the lesson plan; it is not an option, there is no class syllibus for it in the Word of God,* except *have nothing to do with it.       

There's no middle ground here; there is no room for excuses.    It's God or baal, life or death.   God says, choose life.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 20, 2012)

Maayen said:


> Paganism was part of my syllabus when I went to school (a Catholic School with *Jesuit Priests and Nuns wearing habits no less*) and I can testify that I did not turn into a blood vial wearing devil worshipper. If the truth be told it enriched my view of life and encouraged me to study theology later on and thereby develop a deeper view of my own religious beliefs.
> 
> Wicca is a modern movement whilst paganism relates to the original non-christian people who did not respond *to the medieval Catholic inquisitions in England in the 1100's and later the inquisitions of Henry VIII when he formed the church of England. Because they held on to the last outposts of their beliefs (as in every developing society) i.e. superstition etc they were called pagans.* Withcraft is something completely different. And there lies the HUGE danger in citing the Daily Tory Rag as a valid and credible source.
> 
> .


 

For my kids in catholic school as well, they had to know about every major religious organization/beliefset.  It makes one more informed in general and it edifies one's own faith because it is a choice.

Pagans:  I'd partly descend from some of 'em.  Anybody who rejected the catholic or lutherans...pagans and perfidious Jews.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 20, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Bottomline:
> 
> Why would a Christian support/advocate/defend teaching witchcraft to young impressionable children KNOWING that it is against the order let alone the love of God?
> 
> ...


 

It's not so simple as declaring one supporting teaching their own kids to FOLLOW another religion. It's about the constitution of this country and this present formation of society. I cannot cram my version of judeo-christian beliefs down the throat of anybody. Shrugs. If the penalty is death, where are the stakes? There aren't any. Every man will answer for himself at the judgement. I don't see how it can be justified and sounds like Jamestown 1620 to me.  Are there other issues like abortion?  Surely, people are being killed.  Human trafficking?  Surely.  Drugs etc.?  Absolutely.  Religious expression?  That's a gray area.  

Surely, followers of our faith need to follow its tenets but I don't see G-d is saying what you are saying. To the bolded, can you honestly say G-d is in America? From its inception til now? With cold, hard fact and evidence? I can't say that. I can say He is here in iindividuals, but not as a nation of people. So, if there's no evidence that Americans are truly christian and Christ-like as a group, maybe we should leave since He's not truly here? I'm trying to follow the logic presented. I mean, you know I see things in a little broader perspective concerning what is mainstream and what is not on our side of this story of "America."  I sense what you mean but I cannot see it justified.  If that's the case, then all religions such as Hinduism should be banned...more than one g-d.  Right?


----------



## auparavant (Apr 20, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Bottomline:
> 
> Why would a Christian support/advocate/defend teaching witchcraft to young impressionable children KNOWING that it is against the order let alone the love of God?
> 
> ...


 

Sorry about the double post...wanted to address these separately. But I don't intend to question someone else's relationship with G-d to that extent. Of course, when society reprimands someone for committing a grave offense, they are basically calling someone towards morality, I know. But as far as wondering why another views the issue from another point, that's rather off-limits for me. 

As for satanism, surely, not something a christian should do. But, every man deserves freedom. G-d even gives freedom to worship as we desire. If one picks on paganism and wicca, then everything other than judeo-christianity should be banned. And even then, one would delve into denominations and sects. Sounds like Europe before Enlightment? That's why the Pilgrims came over here (eh, I'd rather they had stayed back but alas...).  Why stop at wicca?  Why are people so against gays when they should equally be protesting adultery, if not more?


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2012)

auparavant said:


> Sorry about the double post...wanted to address these separately. But I don't intend to question someone else's relationship with G-d to that extent. Of course, when society reprimands someone for committing a grave offense, they are basically calling someone towards morality, I know. But as far as wondering why another views the issue from another point, that's rather off-limits for me.
> 
> As for satanism, surely, not something a christian should do. But, every man deserves freedom. G-d even gives freedom to worship as we desire. If one picks on paganism and wicca, then everything other than judeo-christianity should be banned. And even then, one would delve into denominations and sects. Sounds like Europe before Enlightment? That's why the Pilgrims came over here (eh, I'd rather they had stayed back but alas...).  Why stop at wicca?  Why are people so against gays when they should equally be protesting adultery, if not more?



You still don't get it.    Didn't God destroy other cultures who were in oppostion to him, including witches?   It's in the Word.      

As a Christian, one who truly follows God, one who loves God why support what God does not?   God is clear, if we love Him, we keep His commandments.   We dislike what He dislikes and love what He loves.  Period.

Regarding gays, they and supporters of this lifestyle have legislation calling this lifestyle normal.    NO one anywhere is making adultery legal.   Even politics men are falling from grace because of it.  gay is also a deadly evil which has become paramount in society as the 'new' acceptable culture.  

No other sin is being heralded and accepted, as that as homosexuality, which also stems from witchcraft, where homosexuality is part of it's ritual.    I didn't know about this ritual of theirs until it was brought up by a wiccan who shared that most of them practice bisexuality; it's known as their liberty.  A lot of these women are married with children and this is part of what they do.  This is out of their own discussion... nothing made up.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2012)

Kurlee said:


> oh hell no!!!!!!!!!



   That's right ... No to hell!  Put the devil and his religion which is witchcraft in its place....straight to hades.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2012)

Maayen said:
			
		

> *Paganism was part of my syllabus when I went to school (a Catholic School with Jesuit Priests and Nuns wearing habits no less)
> 
> and I can testify that I did not turn into a blood vial wearing devil worshipper.
> 
> ...



    You've definitely spoken *'the end'*.   You've thrown up your palm, telling God to _talk to the hand_, His Word is void to you.  God does not defend any realm of witchcraft, be it wicca, or whatever.

You're not a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ   Your defence is clear of whose side you're more supportive of.   It's not in support of God's Word / His teachings.    

Anyone can 'say' they are a Christian, however it's their fruit that says otherwise.   What you've shared is not flowing from the fruit of His vine.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2012)

Laela said:


> *Proverbs 29:2*
> _When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn._





Choose you this day whom you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord....


I call before Heaven and earth; choose life or death, blessing or cursing....

Choose Life!   

I'm just gettin' started...


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2012)

_I am afraid that your minds will be corrupted and that *you will abandon your full and pure devotion to Christ*---in the same way that Eve was deceived by the snake's clever lies._

(2 Corinthians 11:3 )

Full and pure devotion to God's Word / The Lord Jesus Christ / The Word who became 'flesh' and dwelt among us... has been abandoned.


----------



## TheNDofUO (Apr 21, 2012)

Shimmie I'm sorry but I have to say it. You're annoying. Really annoying

Anyway, i feel for all we Christians talk about this and that we are all incredibly selfish. We want things our way and our way only. I don't even get the feeling you're thinking about God - I think its about what YOU like, what YOU'RE comfortable.

The lessons will more like history lessons than anything else and as someone said above would you prefer no religion in school?

Due to the chronic selfishness that most Christians feel completely comfortable with no one asks the question. How would I feel if it was me? If you lived in a country that was Pagan majority and Christian minority and they taught many religions in school but specifically left out Christianity. You would be upset. Same thing. Yes, these people are wrong and messed up but so are you and so am I. As long as I believe I have rights I will take them from no one. None of us were born saved so we shouldn't act like it.

Also you speak a lot of Baal but don't forget that Jesus lived when Romans were reigning. And they had their own gods and system and he spoke nothing of bringing them down and punishing them for their evil. Instead, he saw them as the ones he came to save. Why should we act differently?

There's a lot of outrage against other religions being taught but I have honestly never heard anyone say "How about we improve the way Christianity is being taught?" Because that is the real issue. That is ehy we're losing kids. Stop hiding from the real issues because they're difficult. Kids arent leaving Christianity to become Muslims or pagans. theyre simply losing faith. That's what we have to deal with. Stop obsessing about punishment and try and save people

I'm not saying that teaching kids paganism is a good thing and to be honest I think it should be in the history section but you need to teach your kids that religious education is not church. Its the place where you learn wbout other peoples beliefs. Thst will set a good foundation for your children.


----------



## TheNDofUO (Apr 21, 2012)

Shimmie I regret calling you annoying. It wasn't needed. Sorry.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 22, 2012)

TheNDofUO said:


> Shimmie I regret calling you annoying. It wasn't needed. Sorry.



   Sweet Sleep, Precious One.  

I've been called worse and at least you didn't cuss. 

No hard feelings.  None at all.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 22, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> You still don't get it. Didn't God destroy other cultures who were in oppostion to him, including witches? It's in the Word.
> 
> As a Christian, one who truly follows God, one who loves God why support what God does not? God is clear, if we love Him, we keep His commandments. We dislike what He dislikes and love what He loves. Period.
> 
> ...


 

Noooo, I definitely got it the first time around, I just don't agree. Well, I'm not a bisexual, and I've got children. Neither am I gay. I feel for the LGBT community because of what they go through in a "christian" world and I realize that many people have actually had "gay" experiences as chidlren to adults and will never admit it. That doesn't actually make you gay.  It makes you someone who either played doctor or made a bad, unwise decision.  I did the former as a child.    I know how to guard myself.  Thing is, so do people who learn about other religions.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 22, 2012)

auparavant said:


> Noooo, I definitely got it the first time around, I just don't agree. Well, I'm not a bisexual, and I've got children. Neither am I gay. I feel for the LGBT community because of what they go through in a "christian" world and I realize that many people have actually had "gay" experiences as chidlren to adults and will never admit it. That doesn't actually make you gay.  It makes you someone who either played doctor or made a bad, unwise decision.  I did the former as a child.    I know how to guard myself.  Thing is, so do people who learn about other religions.



You're not wicca either...  

I feel badly for gays as well; they are entwined with deception regarding sexuality; the consequences of it are disasterous spiritually, mentally and physically.  gay men and aids still ranks number one with this tragic disease.    

Christians are not their enemy; their true enemy is their lifestyle.   In addtion there are non Christians, other religions, other cultures, even athiests who do not support homosexuality.   So why are Christians labeled as the 'heavies'.    It's just another 'attack' strategy to discredit Christianity.    To be totally honest, gays are actually blaming 'Blacks' for their misery.  They are blaming the Black Churches for not supporting them.  

Why is okay for gays to support what they believe which is an immoral lifestyle which they are forcing people to accept, and wrong for Christians to stand by their beliefs which are indeed moral and scriptural?

gays are insulted because they do not wish to be faced with the truth that their lifestyle is indeed wrong.   There is nothing that will ever support it as right other than the deceptions of their own concepts.   

As for guarding ones self... to see this world's view compared to God's, there's very little 'guarding' taking place.   Society's is a mess and getting messier by the minute.    

When it comes to children being taught on any subject matter, the teacher cannot build the 'wrong' to be right or as a viable option.   If they teach other religions, God's word still has to prevail in it.   It's not about appeasing what's wrong, it's about pleasing God, at least for Christians who say they are Christians.   There's no such thing as 'allowing' another religion to be presented as parallel to scripture.    

When God speaks of witchcraft, He speaks the truth about it; He says it's wrong, it's evil, it's forbidden and we who serve Him are to be separate from it. Hence this very truth should be supported by Christians and should be taught the truth about it in public schools.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 22, 2012)

Never wicca...I'm catholic. But you should see my new thread...I've come to terms with some of this subject. I'm glad that is completed and full-circle.

Parallel to scripture....well, in general religious studies, they do that....comparing the differences. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's done in seminaries. As far as what one personally believes and adheres to, that's totally different. I tend to agree with the UK poster in that paganism is older than "wicca" which is probably the true "witchcraft." Paganism is a very broad description and has included many people who were anti-church, even when they were judeo/andor-christian and persecuted by the followers of Christ, supposedly. But how are we today going to push our religion down the throats of others in a secular society? That's my question. We don't have prayer in schools...so, it would seem to me that it's just another "secular" study of a religious belief-set. 

Now, what other people do with it, well, that's not for me. Like I said, I'm catholic lol. How would you stop it?  As long as parents can opt-out, maybe that is the better solution?


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 22, 2012)

auparavant said:


> Never wicca...I'm catholic. But you should see my new thread...I've come to terms with some of this subject. I'm glad that is completed and full-circle.
> 
> Parallel to scripture....well, in general religious studies, they do that....comparing the differences. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's done in seminaries. As far as what one personally believes and adheres to, that's totally different. I tend to agree with the UK poster in that paganism is older than "wicca" which is probably the true "witchcraft." Paganism is a very broad description and has included many people who were anti-church, even when they were judeo/andor-christian and persecuted by the followers of Christ, supposedly. But how are we today going to push our religion down the throats of others in a secular society? That's my question. We don't have prayer in schools...so, it would seem to me that it's just another "secular" study of a religious belief-set.
> 
> Now, what other people do with it, well, that's not for me. Like I said, I'm catholic lol. *How would you stop it?*  As long as parents can opt-out, maybe that is the better solution?



Opting out is one step.  The other is getting rid of those who are making these foolish decisions for the schools' curriculums.    They need to be replaced by those whose decisions are wiser.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 22, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Opting out is one step. The other is getting rid of those who are making these foolish decisions for the schools' curriculums. They need to be replaced by *those whose decisions are wiser*.


 

There are none.  The common sense folks have long-since left the building.  Some of the curricula is ridiculous in public schools.  For example, here,  they put so much darned emphasis on sports, trying to make a future Steeler, and they put much less emphasis on AP and academic coursework or even free SAT prep for those families who cannot afford to pay for it.  Wicca is not even on the map in importance, imho.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 22, 2012)

auparavant said:


> There are none.  The common sense folks have long-since left the building.  Some of the curricula is ridiculous in public schools.  For example, here,  they put so much darned emphasis on sports, trying to make a future Steeler, and they put much less emphasis on AP and academic coursework or even free SAT prep for those families who cannot afford to pay for it.  Wicca is not even on the map in importance, imho.



I have to agree, the public school system is huge mess; a little leaven leavens the whole lump, meaning wicca only makes it worse.  

As a matter of fact, relating to the wicca / sports; earlier this year it was the wicca's who got together with their 'charms' for their team to win (the Patriots team (?)....   It happened and what this does is dangerously teach children that they don't need prayer, even more dangerous, that they do not need to have / develop a personal relationship with Jesus and prayer.   

Not good...


----------



## Laela (Apr 23, 2012)

Yeah, that's what I was intimating.. I don't see why one has to be  'emotional'  just because we're in opposition. Not that what we say matters concerning UK schools.. Actually, this thread reminds me of Daniel...and his openly going against the grain and worshipping His God. He remained faithful. We may like to think it's over the top..but when we're on God side, it's quick to reject anything that doesn't Glorify Him and for me, that includes studying other religions or even validating them. That was my point. In my youth, I'd personally learned about other religions, including Rastafarianism and the experience did help me realize something was missing...so I understand it can be beneficial to helping us sort things out. But we're talking about young impressionable minds, subjected to learning and studying religions all day long in school.   





auparavant said:


> Nice try of what? There was no need for anyone to imply that those who look into this rationally are leading others to hell. Step back and look at the thread and *take the emotion out of your eyes...*it's not hard to see.


----------



## Crown (Apr 23, 2012)

Laela said:


> Yeah, that's what I was intimating.. I don't see why one has to be  'emotional'  *just because we're in opposition*. Not that what we say matters concerning UK schools.. Actually, this thread reminds me of Daniel...and his openly going against the grain and worshipping His God. He remained faithful. We may like to think it's over the top..but when we're on God side, it's quick to reject anything that doesn't Glorify Him and for me, that includes studying other religions or even validating them. That was my point. In my youth, I'd personally learned about other religions, including Rastafarianism and the experience did help me realize something was missing...so I understand it can be beneficial to helping us sort things out. But we're talking about young impressionable minds, subjected to learning and studying religions all day long in school.


 I don't see opposition!
We are not looking at those events from the same point of view, but there is no opposition.

All Christians should condemn witchcraft.
As a Christian, I don’t want this sort of teaching for my child.

But we are not in eretz Israel (even in Israel there were/are some weird things), we are talking about public school.

It’s not the first time that Israel (natural or spiritual) is between other nations which not living on God’s principles.

Yes, Daniel was openly going against the grain and worshiping His God.
No one is telling to do differently.
Daniel did it for himself. He did not force others, the pagans, to act like him. He did what he had to do. 

We have to understand at what time we are living.
Someone mentioned home schooling, it's a good alternative if possible.

The reality is what it is.
Better look at the events from a spiritual point of view and be prepared.

Children of God have to stand on and by the truth, but the public area is for all, Christians or not. Let's take example on Daniel.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

Laela said:


> Yeah, that's what I was intimating.. I don't see why one has to be  'emotional'  just because we're in opposition. Not that what we say matters concerning UK schools.. Actually, this thread reminds me of Daniel...and his openly going against the grain and worshipping His God. He remained faithful. We may like to think it's over the top..but when we're on God side, it's quick to reject anything that doesn't Glorify Him and for me, that includes studying other religions or even validating them. That was my point.
> 
> In my youth, I'd personally learned about other religions, including Rastafarianism and the experience did help me realize something was missing...so I understand it can be beneficial to helping us sort things out.
> 
> *But we're talking about young impressionable minds, subjected to learning and studying religions all day long in school.*



This has been my 'annoying'  point all along.   The minds of innocent children.    

The devil is such a sneak and a coward.  Children have no defense of their own.  They are conditioned to 'obey' their teachers.  Sit still, pay attention and learn.  witchcraft is glamourized today with Harry Potter, Twilight, Charmed, Tabitha the teenaged witch, and so on.   Here in the US they are teaching witchcraft in public schools, giving the children the Harry Potter books to read for assignments, with the parents (even Christian parents) justifying it with:  "_At least they are reading..._."  

One of biggest fantasies we fell for is 'Disney'.   Not knowing, we were all a captive audience for the spirit of sorcery and witchcraft, mesmerized by the technicolor, the adventure and the music.   

And of all things when Disney finally creates a Black Princess... it's in witchcraft... knee deep.  

Regarding the topic of this being in UK, it's been happening here in the US all along.  All one has to do is turn on the TV... it's right there, the family room, living room is the classroom.   Even Poppa Smurf is a witch...  stirring his pot, making up his blue brew.  

I don't have a problem exposing the devil and his mess.  We need to know.  It's not just happening elsewhere, it's all right here.


----------



## Kurlee (Apr 23, 2012)

children are very impressionable.  This should not be happening.


----------



## Crown (Apr 23, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> This has been my 'annoying'  point all along.   The minds of innocent children.
> 
> The devil is such a sneak and a coward.  Children have no defense of their own.  They are conditioned to 'obey' their teachers.  Sit still, pay attention and learn.  *witchcraft is glamourized today with Harry Potter, Twilight, Charmed, Tabitha the teenaged witch, and so on.   Here in the US they are teaching witchcraft in public schools, giving the children the Harry Potter books to read for assignments, with the parents (even Christian parents) justifying it with:  "At least they are reading...."
> 
> ...


for this!

Yes, it becomes very difficult to control public school, but as parent we have the power to control what's going on in our home.

UK or elsewhere, how many Christian parents let their children be influenced by witchcraft (through Disney and others) right in their living room? 

You know what : I think that I might still have some old dvds (Disney) in a closet to get rid of.

It is not just happening elsewhere, it's all right here, wherever we are living. Let's wake up and go out of her in our home and family.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> I have to agree, the public school system is huge mess; a little leaven leavens the whole lump, meaning wicca only makes it worse.
> 
> As a matter of fact, relating to the wicca / sports; earlier this year it was the wicca's who got together with their 'charms' for their team to win (the Patriots team (?)....   It happened and what this does is dangerously teach children that they don't need prayer, even more dangerous, that they do not need to have / develop a personal relationship with Jesus and prayer.
> 
> Not good...



I dunno where you get your sports facts. They get together ever Patriots game. The Giants won the Superbowl. The Patriots got massacred.


ETA: ...and Twilight is NOT about witchcraft OR magic. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> I dunno where you get your sports facts. They get together ever Patriots game. The Giants won the Superbowl. The Patriots got massacred.
> 
> 
> ETA: ...and Twilight is NOT about witchcraft OR magic.
> ...



Vampires and witches are one in the same... 'demonic'! 

Here's the sports article:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/01/13/salem-witches-attempt-to-neutralize-tim-tebow/

SALEM (CBS) – Even the witches in Salem are getting in on “Tebowmania.”

WBZ NewsRadio 1030′s Doug Cope reports

A group of them formed a circle Friday the 13th at high noon to “neutralize” Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow and, in their words, “heighten Tom Brady’s amazing energy and positive ‘mojo’” for Saturday’s Patriots-Broncos playoff game in Foxboro.

“Tebow is praying to the Gods, and we, the Witches of Salem will pray for the entire New England Patriots team and raise the energy in their honor to maximize an outstanding performance,” Salem Witch Lorelei said.

Lorelei owns the Crow Haven Corner Witch Shop in town.

She has been a psychic reader and Salem Witch for 30 years.

According to her website, she specializes in Tarot cards, clairvoyance, palmistry, mediumship, and spellcastings, if you need one.
------------------------------------------------------------
*Patriots beat Broncos 45-10, advance in playoffs*

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...triots-divisional-playoff-game/1#.T5Wvo7MV39w

It's foolsihness like this which encourages the use of witchcraft.  However, folks need to be aware that it's playing with their lives, even worse, their souls.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Vampires and witches are one in the same... 'demonic'!
> 
> Here's the sports article:
> 
> ...



Vampires are demonic. You should watch the film (if you haven't) to see how the movie supports the Christian agenda. 

Are you leaning on ONE GAME? They do this for every game and the Patriots lose.  You're giving them power that they don't have. I don't understand 

ETA: ...and Tebow is a devout Christian. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

Crown said:


> for this!
> 
> Yes, it becomes very difficult to control public school, but as parent we have the power to control what's going on in our home.
> 
> ...



Crown, we don't even go to Disney anymore and we're only 90 minutes away, driving.   We take the children to Orlando and have family time in other areas.     The issue is that Disney's nephew who is now the CEO of Disney supports the gay agenda, it's reported that he is also gay.   We're not funding this agenda, knowingly.    

The only positive spin that 'we' give to Disney is that because of Disney's revenue, there is no state income tax for Florida residents.


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Apr 23, 2012)

Shimmie

I want to thank you for your posts in this thread. You have stood firm...and nobody mad but the devil!! 


But I agree with you on this! Witchcraft is everywhere. But my thing is, if someone wants to study witchcraft, fine thats them, but dont make it seem like God is ok with this and don't mind.  AND dont try and make this a school agenda. If my child's school was forcing them to study pagan religion, I would snatch my child so quick out of that school.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Vampires are demonic. You should watch the film (if you haven't) to see how the movie supports the Christian agenda.
> 
> Are you leaning on ONE GAME? They do this for every game and the Patriots lose.  You're giving them power that they don't have. I don't understand
> 
> ...



Jeter...  What are you talking about?   Twilight does NOT support the Christian agenda.     Christians do not need a vampire for moral / spiritual guidance.  We have the Holy Spirit for that.  God is not going to use a vampire to represent Christianity.    

It is clear that Tebow is a devout Christian, who said he wasn't?   In addition, he does not participate in witchcraft.  So you're not making any sense with your comment.  

I'm not *leaning* on any game, period.  In my original post I was relating an incident which involved sports and an incident with witchcraft; and how _in one particular_ incident witchcraft is used to draw in the innocent.   It was a conversation that I was having with someone else. 

YOU asked where I got my information from and I gave you the source, the article.  

Now... stop creating debates where there are none.  Behave yourself and stop looking for someone to contend with.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 23, 2012)

how does the movie support the christian agenda? 




JeterCrazed said:


> Vampires are demonic. You should watch the film (if you haven't) *to see how the movie supports the Christian agenda. *
> 
> Are you leaning on ONE GAME? They do this for every game and the Patriots lose.  You're giving them power that they don't have. I don't understand
> 
> ...


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Shimmie
> 
> I want to thank you for your posts in this thread. You have stood firm...and nobody mad but the devil!!
> 
> ...



Thanks Alicia... 

The devil is putting too many Christians asleep .   They're not 'seeing' what's in front of them, deceiving them and snatching their children's souls into darkness.     The devil has folks so 'busy' with the cares of this life', the carnal cares, that they are being spiritually robbed of discerning what's seeking to devour them.  

The only person who should be teaching a child about witchcraft, sexuality, and any spiritual aspects of life are the child's parents where it is taught in it's right perspective.   

Too many teachers, even ones who are Christians (*not all*), are fearful of losing their jobs, or of being sued, so they succomb to the world's system, it's pressures and teach the wrongs of this world as if they were an option and not an offense or sin against God.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> how does the movie support the christian agenda?



Thanks Healthy Hair...

That's what I want to know?   All I ever hear about it is 'Team Edward' and he's the one with the hidden bloody fangs.  In order to survive, he's eating/drinking somebody's blood.  It's the vampire's bloody nature.  

If this is a form of Christ.....I think not !


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Jeter...  What are you talking about?   Twilight does NOT support the Christian agenda.     Christians do not need a vampire for moral / spiritual guidance.  We have the Holy Spirit for that.  God is not going to use a vampire to represent Christianity.
> 
> It is clear that Tebow is a devout Christian, who said he wasn't?   In addition, he does not participate in witchcraft.  So you're not making any sense with your comment.
> 
> ...



So you haven't seen the movies, I guess. If I was looking for someone to contend with, I would've spoken up way up thread where there was plenty of nonsense. I asked the question because I think YOU'RE not making sense. These wiccan rituals have been going on and on and because of ONE publicized game win-witch circle combination, it became an example. You're glorifying wicca by even suggesting that Tebow lost this ONE game because of it. Of course Christianity teaches to recognize demons, but it struck me that you gave it that much power. I was trying to figure out if you lacked sports knowledge because that's the only way it would make sense.

And since I'm out of lurkdom, I might as well say that Paganism and Christianity are so intertwined that it make no sense to teach one without the other (in the educational sense, of course). I don't see how Christians are practicing Pagan rituals (gifts under the tree, Easter eggs, Yule logs, Marti Gras), but don't want children to know where they came from. It's bait and switch! "Look at all the fun Pagan stuff we do. Isn't it nice to be a Christian?" You can't know Christianity without knowing Paganism- educationally and religiously. When the bible speaks of witchcraft and you aren't learned in the subject, how do you recognize it. If you aren't familiar with "Convert or Die," how can you move on to the Benedictine Rule? It's okay for them to skip the Pagans, Druids and Shamans, but not okay for Americans to skip black history and slavery.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> how does the movie support the christian agenda?



Before I start from the beginning of the whole series,  Have you seen the movie?


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Thanks Healthy Hair...
> 
> That's what I want to know?   All I ever hear about it is 'Team Edward' and he's the one with the hidden bloody fangs.  In order to survive, *he's eating/drinking somebody's blood*.  It's the vampire's bloody nature.
> 
> If this is a form of Christ.....I think not !



No, he doesn't 
That's why everybody's #TeamEdward Christians are so fast to pass judgement. It's fascinating.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 23, 2012)

yes at least parts one and two ...or one I'm not sure




JeterCrazed said:


> Before I start from the beginning of the whole series,  Have you seen the movie?


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 23, 2012)

sorry I didn't noticed Shimmie's thread above my own asking the same question ...


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Apr 23, 2012)

I think some say Twlight is Christian based because they wait until they married to have sex.....


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 23, 2012)

^^^Errhh???


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 23, 2012)

um, morals are not limited to christians...


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> yes at least parts one and two ...or one I'm not sure




The movie, and I'm not going too far down the tangent line, is about Vampires and Werewolves. They are this way by chance, not by choice. Edward's "family" (again, not too deep) believe killing another human being and taking their blood is barbaric. Therefore, they fight their demons and eat only animal flesh (Deer, Cows, etc...) The werewolves also do not kill others. They fight their demons. There are vampires who take in flesh without regard. They are the enemy. The role of the werewolves and Edward's "family" is to destroy those who cannot fight their demons.

*WATCH THE MOVIE*, THEN judge.

ETA: The sex thing is one reason. The main reason is Edward's family fights on the side of Gabriel. Watch Van Helsing while you're at it.

See... this is why they need to put Druids in the curriculum. A few of y'all are failing, so far.


----------



## Crown (Apr 23, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> I don't see how Christians are practicing Pagan rituals (gifts under the tree, Easter eggs, Yule logs, Marti Gras), but don't want children to know where they came from.


This is a good point.
I don't understand why Christians keep celabrating those pagan rituals and they believe they are celebrating Christ who did not command those feasts.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 23, 2012)

What am I judging, I just asked a question ...and even with your explanation I don't see the corralation (sp) between chrisitian beliefs (I have no agenda) and the movie...

Vampirism is demonic, a movie like that can not be used to describe Christianity ...

Evil no matter how dressed up or under the guise of 'good' is still evil...





JeterCrazed said:


> The movie, and I'm not going too far down the tangent line, is about Vampires and Werewolves. They are this way by chance, not by choice. Edward's "family" (again, not too deep) believe killing another human being and taking their blood is barbaric. Therefore, they fight their demons and eat only animal flesh (Deer, Cows, etc...) The werewolves also do not kill others. They fight their demons. There are vampires who take in flesh without regard. They are the enemy. The role of the werewolves and Edward's "family" is to destroy those who cannot fight their demons.
> 
> *WATCH THE MOVIE, THEN judge.*
> 
> ...


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> *What am I judging*, I just asked a question ...and even with your explanation I don't see the corralation (sp) between chrisitian beliefs (I have no agenda) and the movie...
> 
> Vampirism is demonic, a movie like that can not be used to describe Christianity ...
> 
> Evil no matter how dressed up or under the guise of 'good' is still evil...


Excuse me. That was directed at Shimmie's statement, not yours. Should've multiquoted.

If you don't get the message that we're all sinners, but don't have to act on our demonic impulses, then I can't help you.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Crown said:


> This is a good point.
> I don't understand why Christians keep celabrating those pagan rituals and they believe they are celebrating Christ who did not command those feasts.



There was another thread saying some preacher gave this whole sermon about how atheists and wiccans have claimed Christmas to be a pagan ritual, but the can't prove it. I was just like 
I have to find that thread. I was appalled.


----------



## Kurlee (Apr 23, 2012)

so poking holes in some of the choices that SOME Christians make is the only way to argue that this stuff should be taught in schools?! Wow.   Just weak.  Because some Christians may be immature in their faith or flawed or may simply just interpret the Word in unconventional ways, somehow means that this is a good idea to teach to children?

 Focus people. Focus.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Kurlee said:
			
		

> so poking holes in some of the choices that SOME Christians make is the only way to argue that this stuff should be taught in schools?! Wow.   Just weak.  Because some Christians may be immature in their faith or flawed or may simply just interpret the Word in unconventional ways, somehow means that this is a good idea to teach to children?
> 
> Focus people. Focus.



Absolutely not. You can discuss the various rituals of Pagan origin in the Bible. The word, "Amen," burying the dead, the 42 vudum laws.... Plenty of reasons.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Crown (Apr 23, 2012)

Kurlee said:


> so poking holes in some of the choices that SOME Christians make is the only way to argue that this stuff should be taught in schools?! Wow.   Just weak.  Because some Christians may be immature in their faith or flawed or may simply just interpret the Word in unconventional ways, *somehow means that this is a good idea to teach to children?*
> 
> Focus people. Focus.


NO, this is not!
Why teach to children something for what God clearly said : have no part at all with this?

But we, as adults, have to be aware of what was added to Christianity and get rid off.


----------



## Crown (Apr 23, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> There was another thread saying some preacher gave this whole sermon about how atheists and wiccans have claimed Christmas to be a pagan ritual, but the can't prove it. I was just like
> I have to find that thread. I was appalled.


Thank you. I understand what you are saying.
On Youtube, search for Jim Brown Christmas, Halloween, Mardi gras 
But I don't agree with teaching witchcraft at school.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Crown said:
			
		

> Thank you. I understand what you are saying.
> On Youtube, search for Jim Brown Christmas, Halloween, Mardi gras
> But I don't agree with teaching witchcraft at school.



That's fine. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. The same way you may want to teach your child about paganism at home instead is the same way I would want my child to learn about Christianity at home instead. 
People cannot hope to understand the religion of Christianity without Paganism. That is the only fact I intend to bring to light. 


...oh, and the Giants won the superbowl. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Laela (Apr 23, 2012)

I heard the brakes... 




Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> ^^^Errhh???


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> So you haven't seen the movies, I guess. If I was looking for someone to contend with, I would've spoken up way up thread where there was plenty of nonsense. I asked the question because I think YOU'RE not making sense. These wiccan rituals have been going on and on and because of ONE publicized game win-witch circle combination, it became an example. You're glorifying wicca by even suggesting that Tebow lost this ONE game because of it. Of course Christianity teaches to recognize demons, but it struck me that you gave it that much power. I was trying to figure out if you lacked sports knowledge because that's the only way it would make sense.
> 
> And since I'm out of lurkdom, I might as well say that Paganism and Christianity are so intertwined that it make no sense to teach one without the other (in the educational sense, of course).
> 
> ...



Hey Jeter... I made it clear that I didn't use that example to glorify wicca nor any witch.  If you choose to see it that way, it's because you're being contentious... period.

In addition, if you want to put paganism and Christianity in the same pot than that's on you.   

As for me and my family, my Church, the great number of women on this forum who love and honour God... it doesn't apply.    It's the Word of God that prevails in and over our lives and within our hearts and we strive from day to day to honour God and to live as He has called us to do so.  

It's a sad day when someone wants to give glory to a demonic movie such as 'Twilight', as opposed to the living Word of God.    The very 'fruit' of that movie resulted in worship of vampires rather than the love of God.   

Who got saved as a result of Twilight?   The only fruit which resulted were little girls, teens, tweens and preteens with Twilight hystyeria, mesmerized with Edward, the new god of their lives.   Little girls, with quotes which said 'bite me', team Edward, and every aspect of darkness pertaining to demonic attractions.    So where was Jesus gloried in any of this?   No where.   Where are the folks who came to the Lord as a result of Twilight?  There are none nor will there be.   This is not God's leading nor His draw to nor by the Holy Spirit.  

Only someone who is not in communication with the Holy Spirit would give props to this movie as Christian based.   

See... satan will use anything to distract people from the true Word of God; and indeed distract them from the Holy Spirit.   This is where God is, not some demonic movie filled with darkness and vampires.   

Anyone with the Holy Spirit of God can see right through this and they do not need to see the movie to know that God is not in it.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Hey Jeter... I made it clear that I didn't use that example to glorify wicca nor any witch.  If you choose to see it that way, it's because you're being contentious... period.
> 
> In addition, if you want to put paganism and Christianity in the same pot than that's on you.
> 
> ...



So you didn't see the movie AND still making assumptions. I see...

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> What am I judging, I just asked a question ...and even with your explanation I don't see the corralation (sp) between chrisitian beliefs (I have no agenda) and the movie...
> 
> Vampirism is demonic, a movie like that can not be used to describe Christianity ...
> 
> Evil no matter how dressed up or under the guise of 'good' is still evil...



Thank you... cause right now, I'm so .........  

I can't even comment.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> So you didn't see the movie AND still making assumptions. I see...
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF



Jeter, baby you can't possibly be putting any kind of Godly glory to this movie.   Please.... stop playing games.   

In the same manner that I've never taken street drugs to know how dangerous they are, I don't waste my time or money to see a demonic movie to know that it has absolutely no value to growth of my spirit in the things of the Lord.

Please tell me that you are not giving credence to a vampire who has bewitched you into thinking he / she / they have God's principles.    Sweetheart, satan is a master deceiver.  he comes as an angel of light to deceive .. to steal, kill and to destroy.   And little one... this is surely on of his vehicles.    You have become entranced by his deception. 

You may think I'm being judgmental however, I'm in tears right now, because I see a precious soul in jeopardy.    Had you chosen a movie such as 'Fireproof', Courageous, or even Men of Honour, your point would be well taken.   But a vampire movie?   

Jeter, don't do this to your soul.  There are far too many lovely souls being deceived and are also deceiving others.    You are not going to find the right priniples in life outside of God's Word.   

I can't believe what I've read ... you really have placed a lot of stock in that movie.   Especially when God has warned us to have no part in the occult.  

A vampire movie?


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

Laela said:


> I heard the brakes...



My airbag inflated...


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 23, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Excuse me. That was directed at Shimmie's statement, not yours. Should've multiquoted.
> 
> If you don't get the message that we're all sinners, but don't have to act on our demonic impulses, then I can't help you.



You are right, you can't help me that's what HS is for.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Jeter, baby you can't possibly be putting any kind of Godly glory to this movie.   Please.... stop playing games.
> 
> In the same manner that I've never taken street drugs to know how dangerous they are, I don't waste my time or money to see a demonic movie to know that it has absolutely no value to growth of my spirit in the things of the Lord.
> 
> ...



Are you watching the movie right now? Or....

ETA: The movie is not about witchcraft or magic. It supports the Christian agenda like I said. All the other assumptions are frivolous yet effective means to invoke mob psychology. Keep going. It's entertaining. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 23, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Are you watching the movie right now? Or....
> 
> ETA: The movie is not about witchcraft or magic. It supports the Christian agenda like I said. All the other assumptions are frivolous yet effective means to invoke mob psychology. Keep going. It's entertaining.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF



Okay... no contention here.      No judgement...  This is coming from Ministry.   

Baby, satan cannot cast out satan.... vampires do not represent redemption; for there is no redemption for demons.    

This is a misrepresentation to draw people away from the truth, from the holiness of God.    Jeter, this is a counterfeit of the Truth which is solely obtained from the Holy Spirit and none other who leads and guides us into all truth.   

_Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?" -----  Galatians 3:1 _

You know what movies do?   They transend our minds into another dimension.   The scenes, the actors, the music are strategic to capture the very emotion that the producers are after to gain a captive audience.  It's not always about telling a story.   

If you will notice, the most pivotal point of any movie, the music is programmed to incite the desired emotion from the audience.   The love scenes have the most alluring melodies, the violent scenes, have the adrenaline rush of rhythms, the actors have to have the right appeal for the desired draw to seduce the audience to give yield to his/her appeal.  

Twilight is one of the most seducing movies of this era... it's not God's vehicle.  It's of satan, pure and simple.  For those who cannot see it, they've been seduced by the wrong spirit... not by the Holy Spirit who would never move by any manner of darkness to represent God.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 23, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Okay... no contention here.      No judgement...  This is coming from Ministry.
> 
> Baby, satan cannot cast out satan.... vampires do not represent redemption; for there is no redemption for demons.
> 
> ...



What time are you gonna watch the movie? I know all about cinematics and in the "almost" sex scene between Edward and Bella, there was no music at all. 

How many assumptions can one person make on a single thread? 

ETA: the vampires are not demons. Watch the movie and stop sinking deeper and deeper. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Crown (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Are you watching the movie right now? Or....
> 
> ETA: The movie is not about witchcraft or magic. *It supports the Christian agenda like I said*. All the other assumptions are frivolous yet effective means to invoke mob psychology. Keep going. It's entertaining.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


Precisely, what Christian agenda are you talking about?

How can vampires be related with *true* Christianity?


----------



## Laela (Apr 24, 2012)

Deception, at its finest.... nevermind that one of the characters is an exiled  Nebucchadnezzar running through the forest ..  we're 'posed to look past that and see the supposed point of the movie -- that it is a *love *story. 
For those refuting that the movie is evil, that is what makes it a "good" movie ....that it's a romance. 






Shimmie said:


> It's a sad day when someone wants to give glory to a demonic movie such as 'Twilight', as opposed to the living Word of God.    The very 'fruit' of that movie resulted in worship of vampires rather than the love of God.
> 
> Who got saved as a result of Twilight?   The only fruit which resulted were little girls, teens, tweens and preteens with Twilight hystyeria, mesmerized with Edward, the new god of their lives.   Little girls, with quotes which said 'bite me', team Edward, and every aspect of darkness pertaining to demonic attractions.    So where was Jesus gloried in any of this?   No where.   Where are the folks who came to the Lord as a result of Twilight?  There are none nor will there be.   This is not God's leading nor His draw to nor by the Holy Spirit.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 24, 2012)

Laela said:


> Deception, at its finest.... nevermind that one of the characters is an exiled  Nebucchadnezzar running through the forest ..  we're 'posed to look past that and see the supposed point of the movie -- that it is a *love *story.
> For those refuting that the movie is evil, that is what makes it a "good" movie ....that it's a romance.



I'm just 'done'...    The gospel of Twilight is saving souls...    

Yeah....   Okay....    

I never thought I'd see the day, when I'd say.... "I never thought I'd see the day".    Now I said it, cause I've seen it.     

Even the demons tremble at such hickory... even 'they' know better.  

Here the demons are saying, 

_Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. _   Mark 1:24


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> I'm just 'done'...    The gospel of Twilight is saving souls...
> 
> Yeah....   Okay....
> 
> ...



How about saying, "You know what, I haven't seen the movie and I thought Twilight was about witchcraft and magic and Edward drinking people's blood" instead of putting words in my mouth about Twilight saving souls. 

This is supposed to be a religious forum yet it's the same drama coated with a scripture here and there. You're diverting attention to an imaginary opinion that you made up and pinned on me to proceed with an empty argument for a thanks. It's tacky. 

Start by saying, "Oh. I was wrong." Then by asking "What is the movie about?" Instead of trying to find a single element (which you were still wrong about) and hang off that to defend your position. 

Twilight is not an argument to keep witchcraft out of schools because the movie is not about Witchcraft or Druids. Period. The End.

ETA:Since you never jumped on Christmas or Easter, maybe I should start some assumptions that you partake in these pagan rituals, but didn't mention it because it wouldn't a) support your argument or b) earn you a thanks. I should also assume that you didn't know that Amen is of pagan origin or that no one needs to know where the word came from. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

[USER=13708]Crown[/USER] said:
			
		

> Precisely, what Christian agenda are you talking about?
> 
> How can vampires be related with true Christianity?



I mentioned it upthread. Vampires have always had connection to Christianity. How do you kill a vampire? What was the church's role in Dracula?

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> How about saying, "You know what, I haven't seen the movie and I thought Twilight was about witchcraft and magic and Edward drinking people's blood" instead of putting words in my mouth about Twilight saving souls.
> 
> This is supposed to be a religious forum yet it's the same drama coated with a scripture here and there. You're diverting attention to an imaginary opinion that you made up and pinned on me to proceed with an empty argument for a thanks. It's tacky.
> 
> ...



Jeter, calm down...

The occult entails, witchcraft, vampires, werewolves, poltergeist, all the works of darkness.   These Twilight vampires still eat blood, whether it's from a cow or a horse, they still eat blood.  This is what satanists do... they eat/drink blood from animals during their rituals.  They also imitate and worship vampires.    

Regarding Christmas and Easter... how does that validate your support of vampires?    

The birth of Jesus was indeed celebrated in the Bible; so was His Resurrection.    We have a Saviour who came to earth, lived and died for our sins, so indeed there are Christians who celebrate the life of Jesus.  I will never deny nor be ashamed of it.   Jesus is indeed Lord and I honour Him with all of my heart.      Do I commercialize it, no...   There are no easter bunnies, eggs, baskets, nor the like in our home.    

In all of your arguments and frustrations, there is absolutely no way to validate this movie Twilight.   None.    It's satanic and nothing about the Lord Jesus Christ is mentioned in this movie.  Nothing about Christ's redemption; nothing about being saved by the blood of Jesus as He died on the Cross.   

At the very least Easter is all about the Cross and saving the loss.  At least in the way I celebrate it.   

Jeter, go for the real Jesus, not some dark romance movie which is so far off into the darkness of the occult, that it has literally taken the souls of far too many into the darkness with it.  So far, that the people who are caught up in it are unable to see through the darkness and into God's pure light.   

Only God is true... not Twilight ...  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENGtXsRS2fs&feature=player_embedded


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> How about saying, "You know what, I haven't seen the movie and I thought Twilight was about witchcraft and magic and Edward drinking people's blood" instead of putting words in my mouth about Twilight saving souls.
> 
> This is supposed to be a religious forum yet it's the same drama coated with a scripture here and there. You're diverting attention to an imaginary opinion that you made up and pinned on me to proceed with an empty argument for a thanks. It's tacky.
> 
> ...


 

Amen is actually in the bible, from God Himself. It means to agree with what is truth, to be sure, truly, verily, so be it.


These are the instructions that God gave on how they were to answer to His word and commands. So Amen is not of pagan origin. 

*Deuteronomy 27:14-15* 

"And the Levites shall speak, and say unto all the men of Israel with a loud voice,
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. *And all the people shall answer and say, Amen."*
*Deuteronomy 27:20-23* 

"Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. *And all the people shall say, Amen.*
Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. *And all the people shall say, Amen.*
Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. *And all the people shall say, Amen.*
Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law. *And all the people shall say, Amen."*
 
*Revelation 3:14* 

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; *These things saith the Amen,* the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;"
*Romans 11:36* 

"For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. *Amen."*
This Hebrew amen is derived from the root [_aman_], which means to be firm or solid in the sense of permanency or faithfulness. Thus by implication, it means to be sure or true. So whenever we see this word Amen used in scripture, it is affirming what is truth, or illustrating something said that is of absolute certainty. 
source
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/amen.html


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> Amen is actually in the bible, from God Himself. It means to agree with what is truth, to be sure, truly, verily, so be it.
> 
> These are the instructions that God gave on how they were to answer to His word and commands. So Amen is not of pagan origin.
> 
> ...



It is in the bible. That's what I said. The word existed before the Hebrews. That's not the origin. The origin is pagan.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> I mentioned it upthread. Vampires have always had connection to Christianity. How do you kill a vampire? What was the church's role in Dracula?
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF



Jeter, this stuff is only in the movies.... killing vampires with a 'silver bullet' or making the sign of the cross.  In real life, Dracula does not exist....


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> It is in the bible. That's what I said. The word existed before the Hebrews. That's not the origin. The origin is pagan.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 

No ma'am, *God instructed His people to answer Him..Amen*. It simply means to agree. God does not borrow from anyone as *He IS THE SOURCE OF ALL THAT IS TRUE AND TRUTH. HE IS THE ORIGINATOR*.  God is the source of all truth and where is proof that it is a pagan word. The word ‘Amen’ occurs 78 times in scripture; a very serious word. It is to agree with what God says. The Last scriputure in the Book of Revelation ends with _*AMEN*._

God would never instruct His people to participate in anything pagan. He disciplined them harshly when they began to get caught up in serving false gods and pagan activity.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Jeter, this stuff is only in the movies.... killing vampires with a 'silver bullet' or making the sign of the cross.  In real life, Dracula does not exist....



Again.... Implying that I'm taking a certain position. Has no one given you your thanks? Lemme go look..

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> No ma'am, God instructed His people to answer Him..Amen. It simply means to agree. God does not borrow from anyone as He IS THE SOURCE OF ALL THAT IS TRUE AND TRUTH. HE IS THE ORIGINATOR. It is not of pagan origin. God is the source of all truth and where is proof that it is a pagan word.  The word ‘Amen’ occurs 78 times in scripture; a very serious word. It is to agree with what God says. The Last scriputure in the Book of Revelation ends with AMEN.



The word Amen is also the end of wiccan spells. It means, "let it be so."

ETA: The God Amun/Amen was worshipped before Moses, before Christ. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> The word Amen is also the end of wiccan spells. It means, "let it be so."
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 
Why does that matter?

The enemy will try to pervert anything that is of God. God is not moved. They will have to answer to God for witchcraft. God is not moved by that. He knows that their day is coming. Those who agree with and participate in witchcraft will answer.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> The word Amen is also the end of wiccan spells. It means, "let it be so."
> 
> ETA: The God Amun/Amen was worshipped before Moses, before Christ.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 

Once again God would not even allow His people to have anything to do with paganism. So what does this have to do with God and His word. Surely, he was not telling them to worship a false god.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> Why does that matter?
> 
> The enemy will try to pervert anything that is of God. God is not moved. They will have to answer to God for witchcraft. God is not moved by that. He knows that their day is coming. Those who agree with and participate in witchcraft will answer.



What are you on about? The word existed in Old English before the bible. Period.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> Once again God would not even allow His people to have anything to do with paganism. So what does this have to do with God and His word. Surely, he was not telling them to worship a false god.



It's because we're in this thread. The importance of paganism- my point that Christianity and Paganism are intertwined. Can't know Christianity without it's pagan roots.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> What are you on about? The word existed in Old English before the bible. Period.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 

*God was here when He was here.*

* He is the GREAT I AM.*

*Remember He is the Creator. *


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> It's because we're in this thread. The importance of paganism- my point that Christianity and Paganism are intertwined. Can't know Christianity without it's pagan roots.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 

NOT TRUE. GOD IS GOD. *HE SAID SERVE HIM AND HIM ONLY AND HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE HIM.*


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> God was here when He was here.
> 
> He is the GREAT I AM.
> 
> Remember He is the Creator.



Ok. So you've taken the bible and Jesus out of the equation. Are you not left with heathens and pagans. Yeah. Like I said...

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Again.... Implying that I'm taking a certain position. Has no one given you your thanks? Lemme go look..
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> NOT TRUE. GOD IS GOD. HE SAID SERVE HIM AND HIM ONLY AND HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE HIM.



Old English should also be taught along side Paganism as a second language. You're clearly not fit to teach it at home.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 24, 2012)

um, I see where this is going that counterfeit Horace ...


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> um, I see where this is going that counterfeit Horace ...



Horace was a different God.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Ok. So you've taken the bible and Jesus out of the equation. Ate you not left with heathens and pagans. Yeah. Like I said...
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 

What?  

That was from the bible. I did not make that up.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Old English should also be taught along side Paganism as a second language. You're clearly not fit to teach it at home.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 

What? 

What I posted is from the scriptures.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> What?
> 
> That was from the bible. I did not make that up.



 Ok.  I didn't say you made it up. 

Lemme go back. When there was no Jesus, no bible, all souls were what?

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

I can't take the post editing. I can't. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 24, 2012)

Jesus is 'the' Amen and there is nothing pagan about Him, we are obviously not in agreement here, so be it...no pun intended.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> Jesus is 'the' Amen and there is nothing pagan about Him, we are obviously not in agreement here, so be it...no pun intended.



 at the pun that was not intended. I couldn't help it. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 24, 2012)

Horace was a false god.




JeterCrazed said:


> Horace was a different God.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

Jeter, 

Why agree with darkness? 

Praying that the eyes of your understanding be enlightened, and that the scales be removed and that you will come to know the only True and Living God through Jesus Christ. Amen.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> Horace was a false god.



Ok.... You brought him up. I'm waiting for you to elaborate on your point. 
You said you knew where this was going and I don't know how Horace has anything to do with Amen, so help me out and fill me in.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 24, 2012)

If it's not Horace then it's some other false god...




JeterCrazed said:


> Ok.... You brought him up. I'm waiting for you to elaborate on your point.
> You said you knew where this was going and I don't know how Horace has anything to do with Amen, so help me out and fill me in.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> If it's not Horace then it's some other false god...



Oh, so you assumed and you don't know.  Mmmkay...

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## auparavant (Apr 24, 2012)

Christ is pre-figured in many of the worlds religions, from long before christianity.  Interesting to note, many rituals were once condemned by the church and forbidden as paganism until later removed because the focus of the pagan worship was removed and it was no longer commonly held as anti-christian.  For example, sausage-making/eating.  Yep.  It was once forbidden and considered a mortal sin because of it's origins.  Now, it's ok.  You have to look at what is.  Perhaps easter to some is bunny rabbits and eggs but in my Church, it begins with the Mass...well, it begins with the sacrifice of Jesus.  That is not worshipping anything anti-church.  In fact, it's a required holy day of obligational worship and you should receive the eucharist in thanksgiving.  Every mass is eucharistic worship - thanksgiving.  

There's symbolism everywhere and G-d allowed the pre-figured expressions of man all over the world and at one specific time, the revelation directly from G-d was made.  There is a truth in all religions but there is the revelation of truth at Sinai and of the second covenant, the completion.  Christmas trees today are not pagan idolatry but have christian meaning.  If we were to chuck everything natural on earth as origin in idolatry, then christians would be wrong today to consume veal  and even a cheeseburger.  Fence laws would have made that impossible to avoid paganism.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

auparavant said:
			
		

> Christ is pre-figured in many of the worlds religions, from long before christianity.  Interesting to note, many rituals were once condemned by the church and forbidden as paganism until later removed because the focus of the pagan worship was removed and it was no longer commonly held as anti-christian.  For example, sausage-making/eating.  Yep.  It was once forbidden and considered a mortal sin because of it's origins.  Now, it's ok.  You have to look at what is.  Perhaps easter to some is bunny rabbits and eggs but in my Church, it begins with the Mass...well, it begins with the sacrifice of Jesus.  That is not worshipping anything anti-church.  In fact, it's a required holy day of obligational worship and you should receive the eucharist in thanksgiving.  Every mass is eucharistic worship - thanksgiving.
> 
> There's symbolism everywhere and G-d allowed the pre-figured expressions of man all over the world and at one specific time, the revelation directly from G-d was made.  There is a truth in all religions but there is the revelation of truth at Sinai and of the second covenant, the completion.  Christmas trees today are not pagan idolatry but have christian meaning.  If we were to chuck everything natural on earth as origin in idolatry, then christians would be wrong today to consume veal  and even a cheeseburger.  Fence laws would have made that impossible to avoid paganism.



The above is what I would like to call "the point."

ETA: Colombians still make blood sausage. I believe the Germans (correct me if I'm wrong) make a sausage made from human blood. Both pagan origin 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 24, 2012)

auparavant said:


> Christ is pre-figured in many of the worlds religions, from long before christianity.  Interesting to note, many rituals were once condemned by the church and forbidden as paganism until later removed because the focus of the pagan worship was removed and it was no longer commonly held as anti-christian.  For example, sausage-making/eating.  Yep.  It was once forbidden and considered a mortal sin because of it's origins.  Now, it's ok.  You have to look at what is.
> 
> Perhaps easter to some is bunny rabbits and eggs
> 
> ...



Thank you for the bolded...  very much.    Honouring the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ makes Easter (Resurrection Sunday) a day of worship and honour unto God for fulfilling His promise to give us a Saviour.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Thank you for the bolded...  very much.    Honouring the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ makes Easter (Resurrection Sunday) a day of worship and honour unto God for fulfilling His promise to give us a Saviour.



Which does NOT change the pagan origin.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## auparavant (Apr 24, 2012)

Circumcision has a non-HaShem/Christian G-d origin.  That's why He used it, it was in existence for 2,000 prior or something like that?  He used what was familiar and reformed it to mean total adherence to His revealed laws.  But even Abraham was circumcized...and he was from Ur as the first Hebrew "E-ver (from beyond)" and was told to circumcize his son.  So, is circumcision wrong now?  No.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> The above is what I would like to call "the point."
> 
> ETA: Colombians still make blood sausage. I believe the Germans (correct me if I'm wrong) make a sausage made from human blood. Both pagan origin
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 
Kinda missing the point from ??? whoever posted about Christmas/Easter as non-mandated holidays.  Well, whatever is bound on earth is bound in heaven since the keys to the kingdom were given to the Church - the first pope, St. Peter, the apostle.  So, whatever they rule is the rule in heaven.  It's not pagan now.  Doesn't matter if "pagan" origin.  And what does pagan mean?  There's my point.  We all start somewhere.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

auparavant said:
			
		

> Kinda missing the point from ??? whoever posted about Christmas/Easter as non-mandated holidays.  Well, whatever is bound on earth is bound in heaven since the keys to the kingdom were given to the Church - the first pope, St. Peter, the apostle.  So, whatever they rule is the rule in heaven.  It's not pagan now.  Doesn't matter if "pagan" origin.  And what does pagan mean?  There's my point.  We all start somewhere.


All your points are valid 100%, but...
Did you look at the sign on the door? 
Did you read the whole thread?
My point was that Christianity started somewhere so it's origins, which happen to be pagan, SHOULD be taught in the class. Others are denying that Christianity has anything to do with paganism, which is NOT true.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

auparavant said:
			
		

> Circumcision has a non-HaShem/Christian G-d origin.  That's why He used it, it was in existence for 2,000 prior or something like that?  He used what was familiar and reformed it to mean total adherence to His revealed laws.  But even Abraham was circumcized...and he was from Ur as the first Hebrew "E-ver (from beyond)" and was told to circumcize his son.  So, is circumcision wrong now?  No.



I'm not going to argue right or wrong. That is one place I do not tread. Other than that,


PREACH!!!!

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

One thing is sure. God does not borrow anything from mankind. 

He is the Creator. 

The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it. Psalm 24:1

for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it." 1 Corinthians 10:26

*Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. Job 41:11*

Man chose to follow his own way and hold his own truth in unrighteousness.

Romans 1:18-21


18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 

19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

*Christ was always here. *

*John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”*

*Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.*


*Remember in Genesis...God said "Let Us make man in Our image and in our likeness.*

_Col 1:16 For by him [Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: __Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. _


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> *Christ was always here. *
> 
> *John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”*
> 
> ...




Christ and Christianity are NOT the same. Period.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Christ and Christianity are NOT the same. Period.


 

NOT TRUE...Christian means follower of CHRIST.

Christians are those who have asked Christ to become Lord and Savior and made a decision to live for Him. Period.

*We can only become Christians (saved by His grace) through CHRIST. Period*

*There is no other way.*


----------



## Crown (Apr 24, 2012)

Confusion!


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> NOT TRUE...Christian means follower of CHRIST.
> 
> Christians are those who have asked Christ to become Lord and Savior and made a decision to live for Him. Period.
> 
> ...



So people knew Christ BEFORE the Bible's existence and before the prophesy? 

ETA: Knew him as in knew his teachings (to be clear)


----------



## Crown (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> I mentioned it upthread. Vampires have always had connection to Christianity. How do you kill a vampire? What was the church's role in Dracula?
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


Sorry, but I still don't understand the relation between Twilight and Christian agenda that you are referring.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Twilight is about exorcism or casting out so called demons.

Is not Twilight about the world of vampires and werewolves?

Where is the Christian part in Twilight?


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> So people knew Christ BEFORE the Bible's existence and before the prophesy?
> 
> ETA: Knew him as in knew his teachings (to be clear)


 

For *since the creation of the world* His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Rom 1:20


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Crown said:


> Sorry, but I still don't understand the relation between Twilight and Christian agenda that you are referring.
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Twilight is about exorcism or casting out so called demons.
> 
> ...



There IS casting out demons in the movie. Yes. They prevent vampires from demonizing others.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 24, 2012)

Crown said:


> Sorry, but I still don't understand the relation between Twilight and Christian agenda that you are referring.
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Twilight is about exorcism or casting out so called demons.
> 
> ...



It's totally non-existant...     

Part of me just wants to cry about this extreme theology.   I just don't know what / how these vampire concepts and paganistic roots to Christianity can be so real to someone.   I..I... I ...


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> It's totally non-existant...
> 
> Part of me just wants to cry about this extreme theology.   I just don't know what / how these vampire concepts and paganistic roots to Christianity can be so real to someone.   I..I... I ...



So you finally watched the movie...


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> For *since the creation of the world* His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Rom 1:20



That was a "yes"/ "no" question. Did people know the Teachings of Christ before Christ's existence?


----------



## Crown (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> *There IS casting out demons in the movie*. Yes. They prevent vampires from demonizing others.


I don't think so!
I did not see the movie. No interest. But, since this thread, I have asked questions.
No zest of Christianity at all.
Just because they present _good_ vampires and bad vampires and werewolves that does not mean it is Christianity.

From a Christian point of view, casting out demons on a vampire or a werewolf would mean no more vampire or werewolf. This is not the case in this movie.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:
			
		

> That was a "yes"/ "no" question. Did people know the Teachings of Christ before Christ's existence?



Christ always existed, there were teachings of God before Christ was born of woman.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> That was a "yes"/ "no" question. Did people know the Teachings of Christ before Christ's existence?


 
 He always existed. 

 All the prophecies of old spoke of Christ. When mankind fell in the garden, the plan of redemption was already spoken/announced in Genesis 3:15, The coming Messiah that would redeem mankind back to God. 

Genesis 3:14-15
14 The LORD God said to the serpent, 
“Because you have done this, 
Cursed are you more than all cattle, 
And more than every beast of the field; 
On your belly you will go, 
And dust you will eat 
All the days of your life; 
*15 And I will put enmity *
*Between you and the woman, *
*And between your seed and her seed; *
*He shall bruise you on the head, *
*And you shall bruise him on the heel.” *

*The He is Christ, the coming One that would destroy the works of the devil and redeem mankind back to God. *

Once again.....No excuses.

For *since the creation of the world* His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Rom 1:20


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Crown said:
			
		

> I don't think so!
> I did not see the movie. No interest. But, since this thread, I have asked questions.
> No zest of Christianity at all.
> Just because they present good vampires and bad vampires and werewolves that does not mean it is Christianity.
> ...



That was the case in the movie in many scenes. Watch the movie and then we can talk about the movie. When someone who has seen the movie has something of substance to say, I will discuss it. Period. 

Study the origins of Vampires. Their existence is not for me to debate as previously implied by Shimmie. There are Christians who believe in them. If you asked a devout Christian from Haiti if they believed in Zombies, they may affirm. I know a few who do.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> He always existed.
> 
> All the prophecies of old spoke of Christ. When mankind fell in the garden, the plan of redemption was already spoken/announced in Genesis 3:15, The coming Messiah that would redeem mankind back to God.
> 
> ...



One question, no answer. The question was about teachings. Is English your first language? Maybe there's a language barrier?

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Crown (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> That was the case in the movie in many scenes. Watch the movie and then we can talk about the movie. When someone who has seen the movie has something of substance to say, I will discuss it. Period.
> 
> Study the origins of Vampires. Their existence is not for me to debate as previously implied by Shimmie. There are Christians who believe in them. If you asked a devout Christian from Haiti if they believed in Zombies, they may affirm. I know a few who do.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


Vampires and Zombies are not the same.

We are not talking about their existence, but how the movie is related to Christianity.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:
			
		

> One question, no answer. The question was about teachings. Is English your first language? Maybe there's a language barrier?
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF



Jeter,

I agree with you here there seems to be language barrier, you seem to be speaking a language that we don't understand.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Crown said:
			
		

> Vampires and Zombies are not the same.
> 
> We are not talking about their existence, but how the movie is related to Christianity.



Absolutely not the same. Some people believe in one or the other who proclaim to be Christian. 

I explained how the movie relates. How there's resistance about my statement from people who haven't seen the movie, I dunno.

ETA: There are a dozen blogs from Christians who support the movie....who actually watched it and have a valid opinion. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> Jeter,
> 
> I agree with you here there seems to be language barrier, you seem to be speaking a language that we don't understand.



English is the official language of the United States of America.

ETA: And there you go with "we". You'll get a "thanks" soon. Don't worry. 
Where's Horace?

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 24, 2012)

you said that the origin of the word amen is pagan, God is the Amen, so basically you are saying that He is pagan...

If you are not saying (and I really hope you are not) that Almighty God, the Amen is pagan what are you saying exactly?


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> One question, no answer. The question was about teachings. Is English your first language? Maybe there's a language barrier?
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 
Why you gotta act like that? You hear me...


Christ's teachings are not separate from God. He is God. God is not divided. 

The answer is Yes, Christ is God in flesh. God among Us. Emmanuel..They are one. 

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

The first prophecy about the coming of Christ was spoken to the only 2 humans around at the time. Adam and Eve


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 24, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:
			
		

> English is the official language of the United States of America.
> 
> ETA: And there you go with "we". You'll get a "thanks" soon. Don't worry.
> Where's Horace?
> ...



Thanks? Thanks be to Almighty God even in school I was not popular.   As far as English speaking my country was ruled by England for many years, we only recently gained our independence, english is the official language here also.  

As for Horace, he is where all false gods are.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> you said that the origin of the word amen is pagan, God is the Amen, so basically you are saying that He is pagan...
> 
> If you are not saying (and I really hope you are not) that Almighty God, the Amen is pagan what are you saying exactly?



Ahhhh... Jumping to conclusions. At least now you're asking questions. The word Amen is of origins that have nothing to do with Christianity. Tutankhamen was called so because he had "devine right." Amen-let it be so. This is not a word exclusive to Christianity. It did not become so at the time the bible was written. History is history. This is not about theology.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 24, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> Why you gotta act like that? You hear me...
> 
> Christ's teachings are not separate from God. He is God. God is not divided.
> 
> ...



What teachings did people already know? What practices did they observe before Christ ever spoke?

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> What teachings did people already know? What practices did they observe before Christ ever spoke?
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 

*That God is God and there are no others. Period.*


_For *since the creation of the world* His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Rom 1:20
_


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> That God is God and there are no others. Period.
> 
> For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Rom 1:20



Ok. I'm done with you. You can't answer questions directly for whatever reason.  Your responses aren't conducive to intelligent conversation.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:
			
		

> Ahhhh... Jumping to conclusions. At least now you're asking questions. The word Amen is of origins that have nothing to do with Christianity. Tutankhamen was called so because he had "devine right." Amen-let it be so. This is not a word exclusive to Christianity. It did not become so at the time the bible was written. History is history. This is not about theology.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF



Tutankhamen, Amen-rah dribble. God is and always was.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> Tutankhamen, Amen-rah dribble. God is and always was.



Tutankhamen is not dribble. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Ok. I'm done with you. You can't answer questions directly for whatever reason. Your responses aren't conducive to intelligent conversation.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 

So now you want to insult my intelligence....when we are all trying to understand yours. You are the one that's not making sense. 

Christ's teachings all lead to God!!

*You want to separate Christ from God and you can't. Scripture speaks the TRUTH and you want to have an  excuse to stay in darkness. That's all. *


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:
			
		

> So now you want to insult my intelligence....when we are all trying to understand yours. You are the one that's not making sense.
> 
> Christ's teachings all lead to God!!
> 
> You want to separate Christ from God and you can't. Scripture speaks the TRUTH and you want to have an  excuse to stay in darkness. That's all.





Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 

I know, it's too much...huh? The word of God is powerful...huh? 

Have a good night.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:
			
		

> Tutankhamen is not dribble.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF



Okay, just a false god.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> Okay, just a false god.


 
Tutenkhamen was not a God. He was a king. This is elementary school education. What a shame.

ETA: This is why this needs to be taught in school. Children cannot be left to the ignorance of parents. Tutenkhamen a God....  Turrble. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## CoilyFields (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed

Lemme see if I understand your point

Are you saying Christianity has pagan roots or involves pagan derived rituals? (which one? or both?)

And because of this (one/both of the above statements) Paganism should be taught in schools.

If the above are your correct views, how do you see this being taught? Would pagansim be taught in relation to Christianity (and possibly other religions)? or as its own religion but no connections made between it and others?  

And your personal thought...do you believe that the pagan "roots etc." detract from the legitimacy of Christianity?

Sidenote: LIL GURL!!! lol!  Why do I have the feeling that your comments are filtering through a dry-witted slick mouth that comes off as inciteful (especially over the internet) but that just might be the way you express yourself? Be nice and behave when you reply Jeter!


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 25, 2012)

um didn't Tut changed his name from 'haten' to  'hamen', which translates to and egyptian god, that's equivalent to a false god in my opinion. 



JeterCrazed said:


> Tutenkhamen was not a God. He was a king. This is elementary school education. What a shame.
> 
> ETA: This is why this needs to be taught in school. Children cannot be left to the ignorance of parents. Tutenkhamen a God....  Turrble.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Apr 25, 2012)

*Titus 3:10-11*

New International Version (NIV)

Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 25, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> *Titus 3:10-11*
> 
> New International Version (NIV)
> 
> Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.


 

Wisdom 

This scripture came to mind last night. Also being careful not to respond out of the flesh, like I did last night. 

You live, learn and thank God for the correction.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 25, 2012)

lol, out of the mouth of witnesses God confirms his word, Amen!!!!!


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 25, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> *Titus 3:10-11*
> 
> New International Version (NIV)
> 
> Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.



Last night I placed the comments on 'ignore'.   I had to...  and then just pray for understanding.


----------



## MissMasala5 (Apr 25, 2012)

Coming out of lurk mode to say that this conversation can be had without insults. It is an interesting topic regardless of one's beliefs, or lack of. That said, I think that the movie Twilight isn't the best example here. A better one is the show Being Human. The entire premise is based around these monsters, through no fault of their own (each was attacked and got their "curse", "virus" or whatever) have to come to grips with the fact that they are monsters, all the while trying to preserve their sense of humanity. At some point, they feel as if God has abandoned them and they feel that they shouldn't fight their natures, and simply give up trying to "be human" and march to the devil, willingly. But that small spark of their humanities always seems to trump that. 

This story, while fiction, makes me think about the very human struggle that all people have in their day-to-day existences. For some, the monsters are all to real. They come in the form of rapists, molesters, child abusers, cheating or abusive partners and murderers. Some of these criminals actually worship God, are Christians themselves. How did they get to the point where they abandoned the Divine within them to do the most heinous acts against innocents? I hardly doubt it was because they learned about pagans and druids, or watched Harry Potter or Twilight. Evil in humans has always existed. Fiction based on humans will always exercise the fight between good and evil. Some may feel their children need protection from such stories and that is a parent's right to make that call. But they must also be aware the evil in the world exists whether or not there ever was a Jk Rowling, Stephanie Meyer or even Shakespeare, for that matter. A peek at the evening news will attest to this.

It is a fact that pagan beliefs preexisted Judism, Islam and Christianity. An excellent film about how pagans, Jews and Christians once got on together then began to fight against each other is Agora. The fights are sort of a subplot, the main story is about the female philosopher Hypatia and her being the first to put forth the theory that the planets orbit the sun in an elliptical path versus a circular one. She was labled a witch and put to death. Thousands of years later, a man named Kepler took credit for Hypatia's theory. 

Factoid about vampires: The only thing close to an actual vampire in real life was the Transylvanian countess Bathory. She was in her late thirties and fell in love with a man in his early twenties. He was betrothed to another, so Bathory had her maid, a witch, make up spells and charms to keep her beloved, as well as to help her keep a youthful appearance. One day, another maid was brushing Bathory's hair and hit a snag, hurting the Countess. She struck the maid and drew blood. Some of that blood landed on the Countess's face. In a deluded state, she swore that the young maid's blood restored her youthful beauty. With the help of accomplices, Bathory killed a reputed 650 people, mostly young women, even children, and bathed in their blood. An investigation into the murders and disappearances led to Bathory's castle were bodies were found. She wasn't executed, but locked in a room without windows and mirrors. It was said that her obsession with her own vanity and not being able to see her own reflection drove her mad, and her madness ultimately killed her. It is said that this woman's bloody obsession  was the one to spark the story of fictionalized vampires.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 25, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Last night I placed the comments on 'ignore'. I had to... and *then just pray for understanding*.


 

I'll settle for just civility.  One can ask and argue a point without stooping to calling people stupid and ignorant where beliefs diverge.  At that point, I'd say that someone didn't truly have the information to argue the point or that the person became too emotional, resorting to insults.  Either way, it's not necessary.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 25, 2012)

auparavant said:


> I'll settle for just civility.  One can ask and argue a point without stooping to calling people stupid and ignorant where beliefs diverge.
> 
> At that point, I'd say that someone didn't truly have the information to argue the point or that the person became too emotional, resorting to insults.  Either way, it's not necessary.



Clarify... please.


----------



## Crown (Apr 25, 2012)

> *Titus 3:10-11*
> 
> New International Version (NIV)
> 
> Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.



It's a forum, not an assembly.

I don't like the way she is conversing.
 But, I had so many beliefs that were not scriptural that I like trying to understand what others are trying to say rather than assuming I'm right, she/he is wrong.


----------



## Crown (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Absolutely not the same. Some people believe in one or the other who proclaim to be Christian.
> 
> I explained how the movie relates. *How there's resistance about my statement from people who haven't seen the movie, I dunno*.
> 
> ...


Just because plenty of Christians support the movie that does not mean it's related to Christianity.
Ok, you think it's Christian because there is casting out demons, right?
On what name?
Christ?
And it's clearly said in the movie?


----------



## auparavant (Apr 25, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Clarify... please.


 

That we can talk about an issue without stooping to calling somebody else stupid because they disagree. I hope she gets the memo. There's a way to talk to someone about something they disagree with and then there's a way you don't ever talk to a person you disagree with because it's insulting. Emotion is behind the posts and that's where those insults came from.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 25, 2012)

auparavant said:


> That we can talk about an issue without stooping to calling somebody else stupid because they disagree. I hope she gets the memo. There's a way to talk to someone about something they disagree with and then there's a way you don't ever talk to a person you disagree with because it's insulting. Emotion is behind the posts and that's where those insults came from.



Thanks....


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 25, 2012)

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." 

Hebrews 13:8


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

CoilyFields said:
			
		

> JeterCrazed
> 
> Lemme see if I understand your point
> 
> ...



Lil girl? Are we throwing insults? Let me know.
Being ignorant is a fact. If you're(read:anybody) insulted, then pick up a book and read.


Christianity has a pagan culture. It has a Druidian culture. The Catholic church brought Christmas, Marti Gras, Fat Tuesday, Tarot, Easter, Lent and all sorts of other pagan traditions into the church. 
Christians were an extremely small number compared to paganism. "Christianity" is an organized religion. Before Jesus, it was not. Period. People practiced witchcraft and prayed to Sun gods. Jesus is also a Sun god. Like it or not. When they say "he is risen," they're talking about Jesus- The sun/son...why the bible says you can't look at Him. 

Was everyone not damned before the found/accepted Jesus? Who were they? They weren't nameless. They were Pagans, Druids, Witches, Warlocks. They worshipped the Sun. They worshipped Amen-Ra. They burried the dead. I don't care if you believe God was here or Jesus was here or both. These people were pagans. Period. This is written in the bible (Amen, circumcision, animal sacrifices,Vudum Laws/Commandments, etc) and after the bible (Christmas, Fasts, Feasts, etc).
The Hebrews who made a cow to worship were celebrating the Taurus. Pagan. Period. 

In short, I'm saying both. 




Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

Crown said:
			
		

> Just because plenty of Christians support the movie that does not mean it's related to Christianity.
> Ok, you think it's Christian because there is casting out demons, right?
> On what name?
> Christ?
> And it's clearly said in the movie?



Quote me where I said the movie was Christian.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Crown (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> Are you watching the movie right now? Or....
> 
> ETA: The movie is not about witchcraft or magic. It supports the Christian agenda like I said. All the other assumptions are frivolous yet effective means to invoke mob psychology. Keep going. It's entertaining.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF





JeterCrazed said:


> Quote me where I said the movie was Christian.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


Please, you know what I mean, you said the movie supports the Christian agenda.
*This movie has nothing about Christ.*


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> um didn't Tut changed his name from 'haten' to  'hamen', which translates to and egyptian god, that's equivalent to a false god in my opinion.



No. He was King. This is where divine right came from. God made him King and he was recognizing that. Notice all kings of England have Biblical names. Same tradition. So if you name your son Jesus, that makes him a false God? It's called thanksgiving. God was doing his work through him. 

Listen to what you're saying.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

Crown said:
			
		

> Please, you know what I mean, you said the movie supports the Christian agenda.
> This movie has nothing about Christ.



There is no "you know what I mean." You can't switch back and forth between implications and declarations and think we can have an intelligent conversation. Be consistent. 
Do you know what it means to support an agenda? I think that's where you're confused.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

[USER=34773]MissMasala5[/USER] said:
			
		

> Coming out of lurk mode to say that this conversation can be had without insults. It is an interesting topic regardless of one's beliefs, or lack of. That said, I think that the movie Twilight isn't the best example here. A better one is the show Being Human. The entire premise is based around these monsters, through no fault of their own (each was attacked and got their "curse", "virus" or whatever) have to come to grips with the fact that they are monsters, all the while trying to preserve their sense of humanity. At some point, they feel as if God has abandoned them and they feel that they shouldn't fight their natures, and simply give up trying to "be human" and march to the devil, willingly. But that small spark of their humanities always seems to trump that.
> 
> This story, while fiction, makes me think about the very human struggle that all people have in their day-to-day existences. For some, the monsters are all to real. They come in the form of rapists, molesters, child abusers, cheating or abusive partners and murderers. Some of these criminals actually worship God, are Christians themselves. How did they get to the point where they abandoned the Divine within them to do the most heinous acts against innocents? I hardly doubt it was because they learned about pagans and druids, or watched Harry Potter or Twilight. Evil in humans has always existed. Fiction based on humans will always exercise the fight between good and evil. Some may feel their children need protection from such stories and that is a parent's right to make that call. But they must also be aware the evil in the world exists whether or not there ever was a Jk Rowling, Stephanie Meyer or even Shakespeare, for that matter. A peek at the evening news will attest to this.
> 
> ...



+1  Twilight isn't the best example. It just stuck out like a sore thumb between Harry Potter and the Smurfs.  both understandably contrary to Christian beliefs. 
May I ask if you are Catholic?

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

Crown said:
			
		

> It's a forum, not an assembly.
> 
> I don't like the way she is conversing.
> But, I had so many beliefs that were not scriptural that I like trying to understand what others are trying to say rather than assuming I'm right, she/he is wrong.



You can't understand what a person is saying by not asking questions and waiting to come to a conclusion. I dont like the way you're (more than just you) are conversing by making assumptions, inferences and answering your own question in the same post before I answer. If you feel like you already know and would not accept my answer before I answer, then why are you asking me accept to argue?

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Crown (Apr 25, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> It's totally non-existant...
> 
> Part of me just wants to cry about *this extreme theology*.   I just don't know what / how these vampire concepts and paganistic roots to Christianity can be so real to someone.   I..I... I ...


Sorry @Shimmie, I am late for an answer.
 
Is it so popular?

I know about Zombi, but no relation between Zombi and Christianity.
Christians help those victims to be delivered.


----------



## MissMasala5 (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:
			
		

> +1  Twilight isn't the best example. It just stuck out like a sore thumb between Harry Potter and the Smurfs.  both understandably contrary to Christian beliefs.
> May I ask if you are Catholic?
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF



No, I'm not Catholic. LOL at the Smurfs! 

Regarding what you posted about Christians learning about the roots of religion, I used to think one should have a natural curiousity about that when choosing to embrace a religion. But I learned that they do, albeit mainly Christian scholars who go on to teach and publish books on the topic. Their treatment of the topic is for their peers and students and not necessarily the practictioners or laypeople of the faith, you know? I know a few Christians who are aware of pagan presence in their religion and couldn't care less about that. They are most concerned with their own personal journeys and salvation rather than which came first-- the grove or the church? 

As for what the UK schools are doing, I agree with the fact that this is a part of their history and it should be taught. I also agree that parents have the right to opt out as they see fit for their children. I wonder how things would be if US schools proposed the same thing with say, the beliefs of Native Americans? Somehow I don't think the uproar would be the same since NA beliefs aren't as maligned as the practices of druids, even though those beliefs share the same pagan components-- nature reverence, multiple gods, ancestor reverence, magic/"medicine", etc.


----------



## libertysince05 (Apr 25, 2012)

I applaud this decision.
Children have a right to knowledge, and its right that they're being given it.
Learning of about other religions made my faith stronger, so i doubt that learning of the existence of other religions will harm these children.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 25, 2012)

Crown said:


> Sorry @Shimmie, *I am late for an answer.*
> 
> Is it so popular?
> 
> ...



No problem...Angel.  :Rose:  :Rose:  :Rose:


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

MissMasala5 said:
			
		

> No, I'm not Catholic. LOL at the Smurfs!
> 
> Regarding what you posted about Christians learning about the roots of religion, I used to think one should have a natural curiousity about that when choosing to embrace a religion. But I learned that they do, albeit mainly Christian scholars who go on to teach and publish books on the topic. Their treatment of the topic is for their peers and students and not necessarily the practictioners or laypeople of the faith, you know? I know a few Christians who are aware of pagan presence in their religion and couldn't care less about that. They are most concerned with their own personal journeys and salvation rather than which came first-- the grove or the church?
> 
> As for what the UK schools are doing, I agree with the fact that this is a part of their history and it should be taught. I also agree that parents have the right to opt out as they see fit for their children. I wonder how things would be if US schools proposed the same thing with say, the beliefs of Native Americans? Somehow I don't think the uproar would be the same since NA beliefs aren't as maligned as the practices of druids, even though those beliefs share the same pagan components-- nature reverence, multiple gods, ancestor reverence, magic/"medicine", etc.



*leaning on the thanks button*
I understand your view on learning the pagan ways for personal interest, but I don't think it should be reserved for clergymen and the like. I don't think surface knowledge is enough when you're practicing a lifestyle. That isn't to say that you're practicing correctly or incorrectly by knowing or not knowing (which I think was your point, right?), but I do think it becomes a problem retroactively. Making up stories or excuses to fill in the blanks and defend your faith leaves room for doubt or mistakes. Besides the fact that parents always think they know best, people resist and fear what they don't know. To say that it didn't exist is ignorance. 
I never had a class on Native American beliefs, but took Latin in junior high school-7th grade. We learned the language and some history on paganism and the teacher was devout Catholic. I begin to wonder how many people in ministry deny this history or are oblivious to it.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## chicacanella (Apr 25, 2012)

auparavant said:


> I'll settle for just civility. One can ask and argue a point without stooping to calling people stupid and ignorant where beliefs diverge. At that point, I'd say that someone didn't truly have the information to argue the point or that the person became too emotional, resorting to insults. Either way, it's not necessary.


 

I disagree about calling another ignorant; sometimes people are ignorant. And even other times, people are foolish. That's the truth.


----------



## CoilyFields (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:
			
		

> Lil girl? Are we throwing insults? Let me know.
> Being ignorant is a fact. If you're(read:anybody) insulted, then pick up a book and read.
> 
> Christianity has a pagan culture. It has a Druidian culture. The Catholic church brought Christmas, Marti Gras, Fat Tuesday, Tarot, Easter, Lent and all sorts of other pagan traditions into the church.
> ...



Maybe I should have prefaced my sidenote with a disclaimer that I call folks lil girl and meant no insult.

As to your answer : so how would u answer my other questions? How would it be taught and do you think it detracts from the authenticity of christianity? (Do u believe Jesus is the only way to salvation )


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

CoilyFields said:
			
		

> Maybe I should have prefaced my sidenote with a disclaimer that I call folks lil girl and meant no insult.
> 
> As to your answer : so how would u answer my other questions? How would it be taught and do you think it detracts from the authenticity of christianity? (Do u believe Jesus is the only way to salvation )



It's not a distraction at all! In the way they're trying to teach is in an educational setting, they should visit languages like Latin, Old English, Middle English...visit medicine as there would be no medicine without magic...visit the continued fascination with the sun...family values and matriarchy...Christians and the Crusades...Charlemagne...Thesalonian code...Beowulf...Maybe they can skip the orgies that became Christmas and Ishtar/Easter, because they're 11 and 12, but this book could be a great reference for a high school class. 



ETA: Oops forgot the last. The better question is "Do I believe in salvation?" I don't get into beliefs. The answer to THAT is a loaded "no." 
Also, it enhances authenticity. These beliefs didn't just come out of thin air-even with the ergot poisoning. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Apr 25, 2012)

chicacanella said:


> I disagree about calling another ignorant; sometimes people are ignorant. And even other times, people are foolish. That's the truth.


 

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1

The fear of the LORD _is_ the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy _is_ understanding. Proverbs 9:10


----------



## auparavant (Apr 25, 2012)

chicacanella said:


> I disagree about calling another ignorant; sometimes people are ignorant. And even other times, people are foolish. That's the truth.


 

When we stoop to calling them such, we become wrong by insulting them to harm them. That was basically my point. We can communicate without inferring or directly charging people with being ignorant and dumb. The 5th commandment is against killing. If I look into a deeper Jewish teaching on this or catholic, I will find that insults are against this commandment. Am I guilty? Yes. I've broken it a number of times but I also realize it is wrong. If someone doesn't regard the decalogue, they still know right from wrong in their hearts. We are all intelligent women and some of us know things that others do not yet know but no one here is "stupid."

I am actually against telling another his spiritual prescription, for the most part. I also know that ignorance is relative and subjective.  One's foolishness is another's gold and vice-versa.  It all depends upon one's perspective.


----------



## auparavant (Apr 25, 2012)

There are several of us who understand very different viewpoints.  Even with the exegeses  given, there's still room for deeper studies that might disprove or support a particular counter point of view.  Few people actually look to the oldest writings themselves for guidance.  Maybe if we all put down our bows and arrows and come to the table to talk WITH each other rather than AT each other, all points will them be respected?  I dunno, I think it's possible.


----------



## CoilyFields (Apr 25, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:
			
		

> It's not a distraction at all! In the way they're trying to teach is in an educational setting, they should visit languages like Latin, Old English, Middle English...visit medicine as there would be no medicine without magic...visit the continued fascination with the sun...family values and matriarchy...Christians and the Crusades...Charlemagne...Thesalonian code...Beowulf...Maybe they can skip the orgies that became Christmas and Ishtar/Easter, because they're 11 and 12, but this book could be a great reference for a high school class.
> 
> ETA: Oops forgot the last. The better question is "Do I believe in salvation?" I don't get into beliefs. The answer to THAT is a loaded "no."
> Also, it enhances authenticity. These beliefs didn't just come out of thin air-even with the ergot poisoning.
> ...



Thank you. I now understand where you're coming from.

My response is this: 
Though it may be arguable that paganism should be taught from a historical point of view in england, I do not agree that it should be taught in conjunction with christianity because christianity does not have its roots in paganism. 
 Before there was any organized religion there was God (father son and holy ghost ). After adam sinned  the bible, in genesis, speaks about man seeking after other gods. Witchcraft,  paganism etc would fall into this category.  God chose when he wanted to come "back on the scene" again and establish himself as God almighty and attach himself to a group of people and the first legitimate religion,  Judaism. The plan of God was from the beginning, not patched together from pieces of witchcraft from early cultures. So it is paganism that is counterfeit.  They wrongly worshiped the creations instead of the creator (the sun instead of the son-who did not just hop on the scene at his human birth but had been with God  from the beginning). 
But, if you have not accepted Jesus as saviour then I do not expect that you would see or necessarily agree with this.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 25, 2012)

auparavant said:


> We are all intelligent women and some of us know things that others do not yet know but no one here is "stupid."



  I agree no one is 'stupid', but I have to say many comments are 'unwise', especially those with absurdities regarding Christianity.  

It amazes me that non Christians have so much to say about their Christians knowledge... yet it's not scriptually supported...


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 25, 2012)

CoilyFields said:
			
		

> Thank you. I now understand where you're coming from.
> 
> My response is this:
> Though it may be arguable that paganism should be taught from a historical point of view in england, I do not agree that it should be taught in conjunction with christianity because christianity does not have its roots in paganism.
> ...



There is fact. There is opinion. Pagan roots of Christianity is fact. What is counterfeit is opinion. No one said paganism or witchcraft was true and this is not how it's taught in school. Since Adam did not write Genesis, it's irrelevant to civilization in between creation and scripture. This is not a matter of opinion. This is fact.

ETA: There were religions before Judaism. Hint: the world is round. 

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 25, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> Thank you. I now understand where you're coming from.
> 
> My response is this:
> 
> ...



I just have to say thank you for your entire post.   Without malice, or condemnation, you simply spoke the truth... plain and simple and gentle.  

A blessing...


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 25, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1
> 
> *The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Proverbs 9:10 *



This blesses me, as it wasn't until I surrendered my life to God, that life fell into place.  His wisdom prevailed, not me, but Him and each day, I am learning more and more about His grace and His holy understanding.   There's no other way, than God's way.  For His way is 'perfect'.


----------



## aribell (Apr 26, 2012)

Had to come in and see what 200+ posts could be about... 



JeterCrazed said:


> English is the official language of the United States of America.



The U.S. has no official language, but on to more important things.




JeterCrazed said:


> Christianity has a pagan culture. It has a Druidian culture. *The Catholic church brought Christmas, Marti Gras, Fat Tuesday, Tarot, Easter, Lent and all sorts of other pagan traditions into the church. *



Yes, the Church brought many pagan elements into its worship.  But think about the structure of that sentence:  "brought _into_".  The fellowship of believers in Christ was alive, well, and flourishing before any of those traditions became _incorporated_ into the Church.  A group of people's faith in Christ is not about the days one celebrates Jesus' resurrection or birth or anything like that.  You could take away all the things you mentioned and faith in and devotion to Jesus Christ would still exist.  The pagan elements you mentioned didn't show up until at least 300 years after Christians had been living and worshiping together.  



> Christians were an extremely small number compared to paganism. "Christianity" is an organized religion. Before Jesus, it was not. Period. People practiced witchcraft and prayed to Sun gods. Jesus is also a Sun god. Like it or not. When they say "he is risen," they're talking about Jesus- The sun/son...why the bible says you can't look at Him.



"Before Jesus, it was not."  What does this mean?  Before Jesus, there was no Christianity, as people were called "Christians" who followed Christ.  Hence, such a thing as "Christianity" could not exist before Jesus, organized or not.  Jesus of Nazareth is a historical person.  This is attested to by even secular scholars.  Those who believe that Jesus of Nazareth is God and rose from the dead are Christians.  The life and worship of those called Christians is Christianity.  Maybe you know this, but the above quote sounds like maybe not...

Jesus is a sun god...according to whom?  Your "sun"/"son" connection would hold more weight if it weren't completely reliant upon English pronunciation.  Those two words have no such connection in the original biblical languages.  In Aramaic, Jesus' native tongue, "son" is "bar" and "sun" is "kham".  In Hebrew, "son" is "ben" and "sun" is shemesh/chammah.  In ancient Greek, the word for "son" is "huios" and the word for "sun" is helios.  Closer than the others, but nothing like "son" and "sun".  

And again, the Gospel texts were composed very much before the traditions you mentioned were brought into Christian worship.



> Was everyone not damned before the found/accepted Jesus? Who were they? They weren't nameless. They were Pagans, Druids, Witches, Warlocks. They worshipped the Sun. They worshipped Amen-Ra. They burried the dead. I don't care if you believe God was here or Jesus was here or both. These people were pagans. Period. This is written in the bible (Amen, circumcision, animal sacrifices,Vudum Laws/Commandments, etc) and after the bible (Christmas, Fasts, Feasts, etc).
> The Hebrews who made a cow to worship were celebrating the Taurus. Pagan. Period.



Yes, the Hebrews who made a cow to worship were worshiping pagan gods.  And the worship of false pagan gods is also what made the Lord angry with them.  The bible never pretends that false gods were not worshipped.  The point is that people are to turn from the false gods to the true and living God, ultimately fully revealed in Jesus.  So, I think to point out that Hebrews were worshiping a pagan God completely overlooks the fact that the point of that story was that what they were doing was completely contrary to the Lord's commandments for them.  So even then there was a distinction made between pagan Gods and the Lord.  The prophets of the Old Testament repeatedly make the distinction between how other peoples served their gods, and how the Lord God was to be served.  There was always the call to separation...and explicitly so.  So I think you'd have to come up with more than "pagans existed at the time" to say that somehow Judaism and then Christianity are themselves pagan in origin.


You've said repeatedly "this is fact."  But a lot of what you've said is very confused.  Not confus_ing_, but confused.  There are many elements wrapped up together that need to be taken apart.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 26, 2012)

nicola.kirwan said:
			
		

> Had to come in and see what 200+ posts could be about...
> 
> The U.S. has no official language, but on to more important things.
> 
> ...



The defacto language of the United States is English. Just because it's defacto, doesn't make it any less official. Black people having separate water fountains was defacto, but yes. More important things. 

"Before Jesus, there was no Christianity, as people were called "Christians" who followed Christ.  Hence, such a thing as "Christianity" could not exist before Jesus, organized or not. "
That was the very point I was making. 

"Yes, the Hebrews who made a cow to worship were worshiping pagan gods.  And the worship of false pagan gods is also what made the Lord angry with them.  The bible never pretends that false gods were not worshipped."

I'm trying to find out where I'm supposed to disagree with you. 

"So I think you'd have to come up with more than "pagans existed at the time" to say that somehow Judaism and then Christianity are themselves pagan in origin"

I said much more than what you DECIDED to quote. Don't skip over and then declare that's all I said. However, what you said and agreed with is more than enough reason for Paganism to be taught in school.
I mentioned more than traditions. Selective quoting. It's written up thread.

ETA: Oh and about the sun. That was not a phonetic correlation (eta:not between sun and son, anyway).  Look up Solar Yahweh. The Israelites worshipped Yahweh as the sun. 

 Malachi 4:1-2 KJV

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 


Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## CoilyFields (Apr 26, 2012)

JeterCrazed said:


> There is fact. There is opinion. Pagan roots of Christianity is fact. What is counterfeit is opinion. No one said paganism or witchcraft was true and this is not how it's taught in school. Since Adam did not write Genesis, it's irrelevant to civilization in between creation and scripture. This is not a matter of opinion. This is fact.
> 
> ETA: There were religions before Judaism. Hint: the world is round.
> 
> Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


 
I think nicola.kirwan gave a thorogh explanation so I will not repeat. But Pagan roots is not a fact. Root is a life source or origin. To say that Christianity originated from paganism is not true. It was the extention/completion of Judaism (the coming of the foretold Messiah). 

And as i mentioned before, Judaism as an organized religion was not the first religion...but was the first _legitimate_ religion...meaning the first organized set of practices and beliefs that served the One True God. And before the organization of Judaism some people did serve the True God. For example, the Bible talks about Cain and Abels offerings to God, it talks about Noahs interaction with God, about Malchizadek being a priest of God...all of this serving of the one true God before Judaism was officially established (and before and during the time the paganism was being practiced).


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 26, 2012)

CoilyFields said:
			
		

> I think nicola.kirwan gave a thorogh explanation so I will not repeat. But Pagan roots is not a fact. Root is a life source or origin. To say that Christianity originated from paganism is not true. It was the extention/completion of Judaism (the coming of the foretold Messiah).
> 
> And as i mentioned before, Judaism as an organized religion was not the first religion...but was the first legitimate religion...meaning the first organized set of practices and beliefs that served the One True God. And before the organization of Judaism some people did serve the True God. For example, the Bible talks about Cain and Abels offerings to God, it talks about Noahs interaction with God, about Malchizadek being a priest of God...all of this serving of the one true God before Judaism was officially established (and before and during the time the paganism was being practiced).



Israelites were before Judaism as was Judahites and others. They are before Abraham and therefore pagan. Fact. Not opinion.

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 26, 2012)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Had to come in and see what 200+ posts could be about...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





CoilyFields said:


> I think nicola.kirwan gave a thorogh explanation so I will not repeat. But Pagan roots is not a fact. Root is a life source or origin. To say that Christianity originated from paganism is not true. It was the extention/completion of Judaism (the coming of the foretold Messiah).
> 
> And as i mentioned before, Judaism as an organized religion was not the first religion...but was the first _legitimate_ religion...meaning the first organized set of practices and beliefs that served the One True God. And before the organization of Judaism some people did serve the True God. For example, the Bible talks about Cain and Abels offerings to God, it talks about Noahs interaction with God, about Malchizadek being a priest of God...all of this serving of the one true God before Judaism was officially established (and before and during the time the paganism was being practiced).



nicola.kirwan and CoilyFields

Thank you for your Ministeries.   

For some odd reason, many outside of Christianity have the notion that Christians are without historical knowledge and facts regarding our Christian faith.  

The two of your have disspelled this erroneous concept with not only the truth but you done so as Jesus would... full of wisdom.  

This wisdom applies also to Iwanthealthyhair67 , Health&hair28 ,  Crown, Alicialynn86, and auparavant ...  whose posts I've been reading recently.  I have to go back and read more in this thread.   

Just sayin'....


----------



## Crown (Apr 26, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> I agree no one is 'stupid', but I have to say many comments are 'unwise', especially those with absurdities regarding Christianity.
> 
> It amazes me that non Christians have so much to say about their Christians knowledge... yet it's not scriptually supported...


 You know, God uses even the fools to accomplish His plan. All that was said in this thread can help someone to become a Christian or can help a Christian to get rid of pagan rituals that were brought in Christianity.

Luke 18: 8 … However, when the Son of Man comes, *will he find faith on the earth?*”

Why, Lord, with all those Christians?

Rev. 3: 14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 
 These are the words of the Amen, *the faithful and true witness*, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are *lukewarm*—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But *you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked*. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.


We can all become lukewarm if we don’t abide in The Word of God.
These two passages are profound and can help us stay or be awake like the 5 wise virgins.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 26, 2012)

Crown said:


> You know, God uses even the fools to accomplish His plan. All that was said in this thread can help someone to become a Christian or can help a Christian to get rid of pagan rituals that were brought in Christianity.
> 
> Luke 18: 8 … However, when the Son of Man comes, *will he find faith on the earth?*”
> 
> ...



Thanks Crown.   Thank you for being in here sharing your heart and wisdom ...  :Rose:


----------



## JeterCrazed (Apr 26, 2012)

Crown said:
			
		

> You know, God uses even the fools to accomplish His plan. All that was said in this thread can help someone to become a Christian or can help a Christian to get rid of pagan rituals that were brought in Christianity.



Yeah. Like the Easter Shimmie celebrates, right?

Sent from my Inspire HD using LHCF


----------

