# The Four Last Things: Death, Judgment, Hell, Heaven



## Galadriel (Aug 23, 2012)

I recently listened to a mission talk given by a priest concerning the Four Last Things. It was amazing.

The Four Last Things are:



Death
Judgment
Heaven
Hell
These are the things which should concern us most, and sadly in this day and age many people center their lives on money, material things, attachment to sin, etc. rather than on that which will determine our eternal home. The following is paraphrasing from The Catechism of The Four Last Things.






*DEATH*


*What is Death?*
Death is the separation of soul and body. The body will decay and return to dust (Genesis 3:19) but the immortal soul will exist in eternity.


*Why must we die?*
We must all die because death is the consequence of Original Sin. _It is appointed for men to die once.._.(Hebrews 9:27)


*Do we know when where, and how we will die?*
No. This is why it is important to love God, serve Him and obey His commands, and to pray. We must persevere in a state of grace until death.


*Is it charitable to tell the dying person to prepare for death?*
Yes, in fact it's of the utmost importance because eternal happiness or eternal misery is at stake.


*Can a person merit or demerit (spiritual reward/punishment) after death?*
While a person is alive (body and soul), he has the opportunity up until the moment of death to either turn to God and receive His grace, or turn away from God and remain in a state of mortal sin. When a person dies, he is a separated soul, and therefore cannot merit, demerit, or repent.


*What happens after death?*
When a person dies, his soul is immediately judged by Jesus Christ and is either taken to Heaven (even via Purgatory) or descends to Hell for eternity.




*JUDGMENT *



*What is this judgment (of the individual soul after death) called?
*
This is called the Particular Judgment. (Hebrews 9:27) It is appointed for men to die once, but then after comes the judgment.


*Who is the judge at the Particular Judgment?*
Jesus Christ is the Judge (John 5:22)



*On what will each person be judged after death?*
Every intention, desire, thought, word, deed and omission committed during one's temporal life. (Matthew 12:36)


*Who will be present, where will it take place, and how long will it take?*
Only God and the separated soul will be present, and it will take place where the person has died--the judgment will be instantaneous.


*When and what sentence will be pronounced after death?*
At the moment of the soul's separation it is enlightened by God, seeing without error all it had done, said, and thought, both good and evil. Freed from the body, the soul will by Divine Power have its spiritual eyes opened to see clearly its destiny, the infinite Being of God, what eternity is, how abominable sin is, how beautiful virtue and grace are, and that it was created for God. The enlightened soul will fully understand how Jesus Christ is judging it and that Christ has passed a true judgment: Heaven or Hell.


*When does the Last Judgment (aka General Judgment) take place?*
At the end of the world, after the resurrection of the dead. It is called the Last Judgment because no further judgment will ever take place again; it is also called General Judgment because all peoples of all ages will be judged.


*When will the world end?*
No one but God the Father knows (Matt. 24:36)


*Who will come to judge at the Last Judgment?*
Jesus Christ will come in His Humanity and judge in the order and power of God.


*Who will be present at the Last Judgment?*
All people from all ages and the angels and demons, but only men will be judged.



*If one has been already judged at death (Particular Judgment), why will there be a General Judgment?*


to vindicate God's providence in the governing of the world: to clear the Holy Name of God, and in the presence of all creatures to glorify His mercy, justice, goodness, and sovereignty. In the presence of all men and all angels and demons, all the good and evil deeds will be revealed, and on the other hand all the salvific deeds, graces, helps, admonitions and warnings, and countless other gifts of God will also be revealed to show how many men rejected them and chose the false wisdom of the world which led to their own damnation. The wicked who seemed to have prospered on earth and "gotten away with it" will have their just punishment revealed, and the oppressed and suffering will be publicly vindicated.
to have the world give to Jesus Christ the honor denied Him at His first coming, and to acknowledge Him as Lord, God, and Redeemer
to give to just men the public honor due to them, and to publicly confuse and shame the wicked
to have both body and soul participate in the person's eternal reward
*Although we do not know the day or hour of the General (Last) Judgment, are there any signs to look for to let us know it is near?*
Yes:



The Gospel will be preached throughout the whole world
There will be a Great Apostasy
The reign of the Anti-Christ
There will be the return of Enoch and Elijah
There will be the conversion of the Jews
Extraordinary perturbations of nature will occur
Consummation of the world by fire
The trumpet will sound and the dead will rise
The Sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heavens
*What is the Resurrection of the Dead?*
All men will rise, both good and bad, and their souls united to their bodies forever. The just will rise in glorified bodies while the wicked in the damned bodies.

*What characteristics will all the resurrected bodies have?*
Identity, Entirety, Immortality. However, ONLY the bodies of the just will be glorified. The bodies of the damned will be hideous and repulsive.

*What will be the characteristics of the glorified bodies?*


Impassibility- the body will no longer be subject to pain, suffering, disease or death
Brightness (Glory)- the body will shine and carry its own light
Agility- the body will move with the utmost quickness, wherever the soul wishes
Subtlety- the body will be able to penetrate material substances




*To be continued: Hell and Heaven*


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## Galadriel (Aug 23, 2012)

*HELL*

*What is Hell?*
Hell is the place and state of eternal punishment for the fallen angels and the souls of men who die in mortal sin.

*Is Hell and punishment in Hell eternal?*
Yes. 

*
What is the teaching on Hell based on?*
- Divine Revelation through Holy Scripture
- The authentic doctrinal decisions of the Church Councils (i.e., the Athanasian Creed)
- The teachings of the Fathers of the Church 

*In what way does Holy Scripture teach about eternal punishment in Hell?*
Our Lord Jesus Christ spoke of Hell 15 times (more than anyone else in the entire Bible), referring to existence, the types of torments, and its unending nature.
"The torment of the damned shall last forever and ever." (Rev. 14:11)
"Their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be extinguished" (Isaiah 66:24, Mark 9:43) and the fire of Hell is repeatedly called never-ending and unquenchable (Matt. 18:7-9, 25:4)

*Is it proper and necessary to teach about eternal Hell?*
Yes it is.
1) It is a divinely revealed truth which must be taught like all the other divinely revealed truths
2) If preaching and teaching on Hell is neglected or omitted, people will forget its importance, may develop a distorted view of sin and the afterlife, and be less vigilant against wickedness.
3) It helps us better appreciate the value of redemption and salvation offered to us through Our Lord Jesus Christ

*
What are the Church's main teachings regarding Hell?*
1) Hell exists
2)Hell is eternal, thus no soul or demon in hell can ever be converted and released from Hell
3) Hell was created for the Devil and his angels, but also destined for the souls of men who die in mortal sin
4) unrepented mortal sins at the moment of death leaves the soul in a habitual and unchangeable state of rebellion against God. The damned soul is alienated from God and lacks sanctifying grace (and can never repent or obtain grace)
5) The chief punishments of Hell are: Pain of Loss and Pain of Senses
6) Punishments in hell vary in degree according to each soul's sins


*To be continued...*


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## Galadriel (Aug 23, 2012)

*HELL (continued)...*


*What is Divine Mercy?*
Divine Mercy is not a sadness, weakness, or sensible feeling of a pity that arises from the fear of or grief over some evil, or a feeling of sympathy. On the contrary, Divine Mercy is a virtue, an absolute perfection of God's benevolent and beneficent will, a most glorious manifestation of His omnipotence and goodness. It comes from God's love of the Supreme Good and from His unbounded generosity, which triumphs over evil by drawing good from it and saving souls from the moral evil of sin.

*What are the two objects of Divine Mercy?*
To manifest the Glory of God and the misery of sinful man. Because of God's omnipotence and goodness, we can confidently appeal to His Divine Mercy.

*How can we reconcile the eternal punishment of Hell with God's boundless Mercy?*
God offers His boundless mercy to all sinners, and throughout their lives offers the chances of warnings, admonishments, repentance and grace. The sinner cannot both reject and receive God's mercy, thus he condemns himself to Hell by rejecting God's mercy and offer of salvation.

*What is justice?*
Justice is a moral virtue which inclines our will to give to God what is due to Him, as well as what is due to our neighbor and ourselves. Therefore, by the help of justice we always recognize one's right, under any circumstance, and give what is due to others and ourselves.

*What does Divine Distributive Justice consist in?*
The distribution of natural and supernatural (graces) goods, distribution of rewards, and the infliction of punishment on the wicked (aka vindictive justice)

*What does God's vindictive justice mean?*
God's vindictive justice, which is a virtue and His absolute perfection, means the punishment for the violators of the Divine order, the order of things and the special order for the purpose of upholding and restoring the very principles by which we are governed.

*Some people say they cannot believe in Hell because Jesus Christ, being so kind and gentle, did not come to condemn anyone.*
Jesus Christ indeed came to redeem us; and He also came to restore us back to friendship with God which is lost through sin--He came to die for our sins and save us from Hell.

*What is most terrible about Hell?*
It is forever, without any remedy.

*If the damned see that they are in Hell forever, why do they not ask pardon?*
The souls of the damned lack both the will and sanctifying grace to repent and turn to God. Their souls exist in an unchangeable state of hatred toward God.

*What are the two chief torments of Hell?*
The Pain of Loss and the Pain of Sense.

*What is the Pain of Loss?*
The loss of the Beatific Vision (seeing God Himself), loss of the possession of God, total separation of the soul from God. The pain of loss is most severe because it creates an immense void, utter despair, perpetual remorse without repentance, and hatred of God and neighbor. The soul is deprived of happiness and the friendship of God, the holy angels, and of the saints in Heaven.

*What is the Pain of Sense?*
The physical punishment of Hell, first of the soul, then of soul & body after the Resurrection. The pain of sense includes:


pain of touch (the fires of Hell)
pain to the eyes (the sight of the fire, the Devil and his demons, and otherwise darkness)
pain to the ears (the shrieks, wailing, and blasphemies of the demons and souls of the damned)
pain to the tongue (to taste sulfur and burning thirst and hunger)
pain to the nose (to smell the stench of the devils and the damned)


*What are the basic characteristics of the pain in Hell?*


the pains in Hell (pain of sense and loss) differ in degree according to one's demerits
the pains in Hell are immutable
the pains in Hell are eternal


*Next, HEAVEN...*


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## Galadriel (Aug 23, 2012)

*HEAVEN*

*Do all souls enter Heaven directly?*
Some do, and others enter Heaven via Purgatory.

*What is Purgatory?*
The place and state of existence where the souls of the just (after death) are purified of any remaining stains of venial sins before entering Heaven.

*Why must there be a Purgatory?*
Because we know that God is all good and perfect, and He detests sin and corruption. Nothing unclean can enter Heaven. Our sanctification must be complete upon entering Heaven, therefore we must be completely cleansed or purified of the inclination to sin, as well as venial sins, and the temporal expiation due to forgiven mortal sins.

*Is Purgatory in Scripture?*
Yes. Scripture mentions an intermediate state of purification, from the Latin "purgare" which means to make clean. An example from the Old Testament is Judas Maccabees who led Israel:

(2 Maccabees 12:42-44)
 42 and  they begged him that this sin might be completely blotted out. Then,  Judas, that great man, urged the people to keep away from sin, because  they had seen for themselves what had happened to those men who had  sinned. 43 He  also took up a collection from all his men, totaling about four pounds  of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. Judas  did this noble thing because he believed in the resurrection of the  dead. 44 If he had not believed that the dead would be raised, it would have been foolish and useless to pray for them.


In the New Testament Our Lord says,_ "__And  whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be  forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall  not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come."_ (Matthew 12:32)

St. Paul says, _"__For we are God's coadjutors: you are God's husbandry; you are God's building. According  to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have  laid the foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let every man  take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus._ _Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: Every  man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it,  because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every  man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.__If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." _(1 Cor. 3:9-15)


Saints Cyril, Basil, Ambrose, Augustine, Gregory the Great, Jerome, and others have constantly testified to and handed down this interpretation of Scripture concerning Purgatory.


*What is Heaven?*
The state and place of everlasting life with perfect supernatural bliss arising out of the immediate vision of God and the perfect love of God associated with it.


*Who can enter Heaven?*
The souls in the state of grace who in the moment of death (or after purgatory) are free from the guilt of sin and the punishment of sin.


*What is the true and perfect happiness for man?*
The vision of the Divine Essence, the knowledge and contemplation of God, and conception of His intellect.


*What is required for the completion of man's perfect happiness?*


vision (perfect knowledge of the intelligible end, of the Divine Essence)
comprehension (the holding of something already present and possessed, of God Himself)
delight (enjoyment of the object of possession, God Himself)
rectitude of the will (being duly ordered to the last end, God Himself)
*What is the Beatific Vision?*
The Beatific Vision is the direct vision of God without any medium (face to face) clearly, as He is.


*Do all saints in Heaven see God to the same degree?*
No, they will see Him differently in proportion to their merits they earned on earth. Thus, some may see Him and comprehend Him with more perfection and depth than others. Thus, when Our Lord said "In My Father's house there are many mansions..." Saint Thomas Aquinas tells us that this means there are varying degrees of beatitudes among the blessed in Heaven.


*What are the objects of the Beatific Vision?*
1. The Vision of God Himself as He is in His Essence, of the Holy Trinity, of God's perfections and attributes
2. God's creatures which are external to Him but are seen in Him such as the Humanity of Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the other Saints.
3. The mysteries the blessed have believed (e.g., the Holy Trinity understood and enlightened by God's grace and the Beatific Vision)


*Upon entering Heaven, do the blessed receive adornments?*
Yes, the blessed upon entering Heaven receive certain gifts as adornments.

*What are these gifts or adornments called?*
Dowries, and they are the everlasting adornment of the soul and body, adequate to life everlasting in eternal bliss


*Why are these gifts called a dowry?*
Christ is the Bridegroom, and our souls (as well as collectively as the Church) are His Bride.


*How many gifts or dowries are bestowed upon the saints in Heaven by Christ?*
Seven.


Vision
Comprehension
Enjoyment
Impassibility
Agility
Subtility
Clarity
*Is the Beatific Vision everlasting?*
Yes.


*Can the Saints, who enjoy the Beatific Vision in Heaven, ever sin?*
No, they have been confirmed in grace. Also, by the very nature of experiencing the Beatific Vision, they will not turn away from God.

*If there are different degrees of beatitude and glory among the saints in Heaven, wouldn't there arise envy or less joy among some ?*
No, since the unity of love of God reigns supreme in all the saints and holy angels. Each soul enjoys and possesses the vision and knowledge of God to his own fullest capacity and finds complete and perfect happiness in God; by seeing the glory (even the greater glory) of other saints in Heaven, he rejoices and loves them as God loves them.


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## Shimmie (Aug 23, 2012)

Wow, "Gala"... just Wow... 

Captive Audience here....  You have my attention. 

You know how 'we' know things because we were 'taught'?  Yet somehow, what we were 'taught' gets lost the midst, of what we do... and then God in all of His love, brings it back and we stop and 'be still' and listen and know that He is indeed Still God. 

Thank you for allowing God to use you; sharing this is more than paramount.  It's 'time out', sit down and 'listen'.   For no matter what happens in this life, these 4 shall always remain.   

Good Word, Galadriel  Good Word.   ....



ETA:  Galadriel... I mispelled your name.  I've been making a lot of typos lately, I apologize.  :Rose:


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## Belle Du Jour (Aug 24, 2012)

May God have mercy on us.


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## Galadriel (Aug 24, 2012)

Belle Du Jour said:


> May God have mercy on us.




O my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are in most need of Your Mercy.

Amen.


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## MrsHaseeb (Aug 25, 2012)

Galadriel


Thank you for this post. I never understood purgatory but it makes great sense now. You're a very knowledgeable woman.

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


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## Galadriel (Aug 25, 2012)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Galadriel
> 
> 
> Thank you for this post. I never understood purgatory but it makes great sense now. You're a very knowledgeable woman.
> ...



It also makes sense when we have the question "So a person who lived however he wanted his whole life and decides to convert on his deathbed just goes straight to Heaven? Like that?" 

Such a person goes to Heaven, since the offer of Christ's grace and redemption are not earned but a gift--but death-bed-converters are going to Heaven via Purgatory.


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## loveafterwar (Aug 28, 2012)

After reading and re-reading I'm still not understanding the whole purgatory thing. I'm not exactly understanding how those scriptures state that there is such a thing. Could I get a little more direction please? I use the New Jerusulem Bible which contains Maccabees so I'll be able to follow along. Thanks in advance!


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## Galadriel (Aug 29, 2012)

loveafterwar said:


> After reading and re-reading I'm still not understanding the whole purgatory thing. I'm not exactly understanding how those scriptures state that there is such a thing. Could I get a little more direction please? I use the New Jerusulem Bible which contains Maccabees so I'll be able to follow along. Thanks in advance!



@loveafterwar

In the book of Maccabees, Judas Maccabee is part of a dissident army that revolted against the Roman Emperor Antiochus. 

Antiochus had outlawed circumcision (any women found circumcising their children were killed along with their entire families) as well as forbade Jewish religious practice and worship. The worst offense was sacrificing swine and other unclean animals on the altar at the temple.

Judas Maccabee led an uprising that won back the temple, and the miracle of the menorah candle lasting 8 days is what the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah is based on .

First, it must be made clear that the Church has just two *official* teachings on purgatory:


it exists
our prayers help the souls in purgatory.


To understand Purgatory, first we must understand that God is perfect holiness, that nothing unclean is in Heaven, and that all those in heaven are perfectly holy.


*God is revealed as perfect interior holiness. *

*Is 6:3* "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts!" they (the Seraphim) cried one to the other. We are called to that same holiness. 
*Lv 19:2* "Speak to the whole Israelite community and tell them: Be holy, for I, the Lord your God, am holy."
*1 Pet 1:15-16 *As  he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your  conduct, for it is written, "Be holy because I (am) holy." *

Who can stand in the face of the holiness of God? *

*Ps 15:1* Lord, who may abide in your tent? Who may dwell on your holy mountain?
*Ps 66:18* Had I cherished evil in my heart, the Lord would not have heard.
*Heb 12:14* Strive for peace with everyone, and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
*Eph 5:3* Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones.
*Ex 33:18-20 *Then  Moses said, "Do let me see your glory!" He (Yahweh) answered, "I will  make all my beauty pass before you, and in your presence I will  pronounce my name, 'Lord'; I who show favors to whom I will, I who grant  mercy to whom I will. But my face you cannot see, for no man sees me  and still lives."

*Rev 21:27...* but nothing unclean will  enter it (the City of God), nor any (one) who does abominable things or  tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb's  book of life.
*Eph 5:25-27* Christ loved the church and  handed himself over for her (the Church) to sanctify her, cleansing her  by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the  church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she  might be holy and without blemish. 

*We are deprived of the vision of God because of our sinfulness. But there is a divine purging fire which can heal us. *

*Heb 12:29* For our God is a consuming fire.
*Heb 12:6,10* For  whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he  acknowledges. ... but he does so for our benefit, in order that we may  share his holiness.
*Is 6:5-7* Then I (Isaiah) said, "Woe  is me, I am doomed! For I am a man of unclean lips, living among a  people of unclean lips; yet my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of  hosts!" Then one of the seraphim flew to me, holding an ember which he  had taken with tongs from the altar. He touched my mouth with it. "See,"  he said, "now that this has touched your lips, your wickedness is  removed, your sin purged."

*1 Cor 3:11-15* For no one can  lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ.  If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones,  wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day  will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself)  will test the quality of each one's work. If the work stands that  someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But  if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person  will be saved, but only as through fire.
*1 Pet 1:7*  The genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that is  perishable even though tested by fire, may prove to be for praise,  glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 

*Jesus implies that our sins can be forgiven in the next world.* 

Mt 12:32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man  will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be  forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. *

Scripture from the Greek Septuagint, the Old Testament of Christ, the  Evangelists and Paul, and of the councils of Hippo and Carthage, affirm  purgatory. *

*Here is the Maccabees passage earlier referred to:
*
2 Maccabees 12:42-46 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the  sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the  soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their  own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.  He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two  thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an  expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and  noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; *for  if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been  useless and foolish to pray for them in death.* But if he did this with a  view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in  godliness, *it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for  the dead that they might be freed from this sin.* The Maccabees passage is the most explicit Biblical passage that establishes offering expiatory prayer for those who have died so that their sanctification or purging may be completed.


Note, this only applies to those who die with *venial sins*. Those who die in mortal sin go straight to Hell.


Experience teaches us that there are people who die so suddenly, they  have not had the opportunity to confess their sins, but are not guilty  of serious "death dealing" sin (aka mortal sin) and separation from God. 


The constant faith of the Church affirms the belief in purgatory. 
From the earliest of times, the Fathers of the Church taught the  existence of purgatory: Tertullian (Rome, 160 - 220?), Origen  (Alexandria, 185 - 254?), Cyprian (Carthage, 200 - 258), Ambrose (Tier,  340 - 397), Augustine (Numidia, 354 - 430), Basil (Caesarea, 329 - 379),  Gregory of Nazianzus (in Cappadocia, 329 - 389), John Chrysostom  (Antioch, 349 - 407), Gregory the Great (Rome, 540 - 604), and many  others. 

The teaching Magisterium of the Church also affirms the belief in purgatory. 

Council of Lyons II (1274) We believe ... that the souls, by the purifying compensation are purged after death.

Council of Florence Repeated the Council of Lyons II.

Council of Trent (1545-1563) We  constantly hold that purgatory exists, and that the souls of the  faithful there detained are helped by the prayers of the faithful.

HTH!


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## loveafterwar (Aug 29, 2012)

Galadriel said:


> @loveafterwar
> 
> *Here is the Maccabees passage earlier referred to:*
> 
> ...


 
So basically in a sense he made an offering on behalf of the individual assumed to be in Purgatory so that hopefully they'd be admitted into Heaven? How would one know if an individual is in Purgatory? Would you just pray for them just in case to be on the safe side? Also, how would you know which state of sin a person died in? This is my first time hearing of venial and mortal sins. I did some research and it's just a big headache to have to try to decide what sin is considered what, BUT I now understand how some people rank one sin worse than the other. You'll have to pardon my ignorance on this since I'm not Catholic, but I'm sure you could give me the Catholicism for Dummies rundown


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## Galadriel (Aug 29, 2012)

loveafterwar said:


> So basically in a sense he made an offering on behalf of the individual assumed to be in Purgatory so that hopefully they'd be admitted into Heaven? How would one know if an individual is in Purgatory?



From the human perspective on earth, we don't know if an individual is in Purgatory, but as an act of piety and charity we do pray for those who've died . 

There are only two sets of people we do not pray for: the damned in Hell (their state is unchangeable and eternal), and canonized Saints who we know are in Heaven because miracles have been performed through the Saints' intercessory prayers.



loveafterwar said:


> Also, how would you know which state of sin a person died in?



We don't know, but as an act of love, mercy and faith, we offer up prayers for them. Usually family and friends of a deceased person request this prayer intention to be added to our prayers during church service (Mass). You can also do it on your own, in your own prayers. This can even be done for non-Catholics, and the Catholic Church will bury any Christian of any denomination if the family wishes it.



loveafterwar said:


> This is my first time hearing of venial and mortal sins. I did some research and it's just a big headache to have to try to decide what sin is considered what, BUT I now understand how some people rank one sin worse than the other. You'll have to pardon my ignorance on this since I'm not Catholic, but I'm sure you could give me the Catholicism for Dummies rundown



 But of course, my dear. 

All sin is an offense against God, however some sins are more grave and "death-dealing" to the soul than others. The Decalogue (Ten Commandments) is our guide.

A mortal sin is a grave offense against God and His Laws, and is done with (1) Full knowledge and/or reflection, and (2) With our full consent (free will). A mortal sin deprives your soul of sanctifying grace, makes you inclined to sin again, and can darken your intellect and harden your heart.

When a sin lacks one or more of the above mentioned elements, then it is a venial sin. 

While venial sin doesn't deprive you of sanctifying grace and separate you from God, it can weaken the love of God in your heart and weaken your resistance against mortal sin.


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## loveafterwar (Sep 3, 2012)

Galadriel 
 Thanks for that. It cleared up everything and I understand it now.


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## Galadriel (Mar 13, 2014)

Bumping as part of my Lenten reflection.

We know not the time or hour when we will pass from this life into the next. We will die, and then be judged.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 13, 2014)

I was thinking the other day: how can any of us face God at Judgement??? I mean even if you feel you have lived the proverbial "good life" all of us can admit how much we fail in big and small ways daily.  The thought saddens me but I know God's grace is sufficient...


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## GodivaChocolate (Mar 13, 2014)

Thank you for this. What a blessing you are! 
But I still do not see where purgatory is biblical nor do I believe in that.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 13, 2014)

GodivaChocolate said:


> Thank you for this. What a blessing you are!
> But I still do not see where purgatory is biblical nor do I believe in that.



Purgatory is absolutely Biblical. God as a refining fire is mentioned several times. Nothing impure can ever enter the Kingdom. 

And as Galadriel posted, our Jewish ancestors and early Christians believed in such a place (which I believe was Sheol).  I'll stick with what they believed rather than teachings from a man who removed books from the Bible because they taught exactly what he was against.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 13, 2014)

Also purgatory is not a get out of jail free card. It is a place of purging or purgation. It is not a delightful place. God's justice demands that we pay for our sins, as every sin has consequences. We would all agree that a murderer, no matter how repentant, must go to jail.

ETA: The word "purgatory" isn't in the Bible but neither is the word "Trinity" yet we believe. Peace.


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## blazingthru (Mar 14, 2014)

GodivaChocolate said:


> But I still do not see where purgatory is biblical nor do I believe in that.



It is not biblical its a man made tradition based on misinterpretation or misunderstanding of the scriptures.

most of the world believes this as fact, This is Prophecy, makes the bible come alive.  Once you die you take your record with you. People are not rewarded based on how others are praying for them once they die. Is that even okay to pray for the dead?   People take their record with them to their grave, your fate is sealed with you in death.  

*Hebrews 3:15*
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
*Hebrews 4:7*
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For in the grave there is no talking, no praising, no singing.
*Psalm 6:5*
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: *in the grave who shall give thee thanks?*

*Psalm 31:17*
Let me not be ashamed, O Lord; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.

*Ecclesiastes 9:10*
*Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.*

*Isaiah 38:18*
For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

*24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.*  This is starting now. Folks that were part of the Elect are leaving they are following the Love message, Unity Message and believing it will all be sorted out in heaven, but that is not the message that God has given us.  
Folks got to wake up and study the prophecy its coming alive the world is uniting under one faith, there are only two sides, God's side and Satan side but Satan's side is very wide. Satan's side is the Beast side, God's side is narrow. *Few Find it. *


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 14, 2014)

blazingthru said:


> It is not biblical its a man made tradition based on misinterpretation or misunderstanding of the scriptures.



Actually the belief against praying for the dead and against Purgatory is very much a "modern" Christian teaching that didn't come until the 15th-16th century or so.  

Orthodox Jews recite a *Mourner's Kaddish * for eleven months, after the loss of a loved one to accrue merit for the Departed Soul.  As we know, Christianity branched from Judaism.  If that's not a crystal clear indication that such beliefs and practices are scriptural, I don't know what is.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 14, 2014)

There is even a museum about the Holy Souls in Purgatory: http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/museum-holy-souls-purgatory

Scary stuff.


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## blazingthru (Mar 14, 2014)

Belle Du Jour said:


> Actually the belief against praying for the dead and against Purgatory is very much a "modern" Christian teaching that didn't come until the 15th-16th century or so.
> 
> Orthodox Jews recite a *Mourner's Kaddish * for eleven months, after the loss of a loved one to accrue merit for the Departed Soul.  As we know, Christianity branched from Judaism.  If that's not a crystal clear indication that such beliefs and practices are scriptural, I don't know what is.



Key word is Orthodox Jews, which did not follow the bible, they followed traditions, Remember the Sabbath was a burden and still is for them, they cannot even turn on a light.  Really?  The bible does not limit your life so strictly on the Sabbath. But in biblical days after the Hebrews returned from Babylon, they were afraid to be in captivity again and so more laws were created regarding the Sabbath. Burdensome Laws but those were not the commands or God, his Commands were simple and we are to do good on the Sabbath.  Jesus magnified the Sabbath when he came. He showed us the correct way we are to worship on the Sabbath. He healed and he visited the sick and he worshiped on the Sabbath.  

But Christian are Jews branched onto the tree and yes it came out of Judaism.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 14, 2014)

blazingthru said:


> Key word is Orthodox Jews, which did not follow the bible, they followed traditions, Remember the Sabbath was a burden and still is for them, they cannot even turn on a light.  Really?  The bible does not limit your life so strictly on the Sabbath. But in biblical days after the Hebrews returned from Babylon, they were afraid to be in captivity again and so more laws were created regarding the Sabbath. Burdensome Laws but those were not the commands or God, his Commands were simple and we are to do good on the Sabbath.  Jesus magnified the Sabbath when he came. He showed us the correct way we are to worship on the Sabbath. He healed and he visited the sick and he worshiped on the Sabbath.
> 
> But Christian are Jews branched onto the tree and yes it came out of Judaism.



I understand but I dont think this negates anything I posted before. The doctrine about purgatory and praying for the dead have nothing to do with legalism. My primary point was that it is older than protestant theology which denies it.  Therefore I find it to be legitimate. I was not raised to believe in it but from a logical perspective, it makes sense.


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