# Mormons.....



## determine3 (Mar 23, 2010)

Today after I pulled up in my driveway from picking up my daughters from school, three young white males were walking on my street and when they saw me pull up they started heading my way.  I am very protective of my children so I hovered in my car for a bit and noticed they were not moving so I wound down my window (partially) and asked if I could help them?  They were very cordial but I said to them, I don't feel comfortable the way the rolled up on my with their black hoods and the "leader" showed me his name badge and told me they were Mormons all the way from Utah spreading the word.  I relaxed and then they said they wanted to give me a Mormon book to which I had absolutely no idea...I figured they were another type of Christian and can they come in to discusserplexed?

I said no, my Husband has a strict rule about that type of thing (which is not true but in this case it is...)  and they said they would come back tomorrow when he is home.

Long story short, I start looking at the books(titles) of their book and it kind of threw me off.  I don't feel comfortable with this book or them and I am going to kindly let them know that tomorrow.  I told them I was saved and baptized and they were sure to tell me they were spreading the word and it doesn't matter what color you are, race etc.??

Anyways, I truly believe "NO PEACE-NO GOD" so i'm not even going to invite them into my home.  I believe we have to be careful of such things in today's world.

I am not saying they are bad or anything but I will stick to the bible i know (Holy Bible) and if I get the "memo" from God about anything else, i will be obedient but until then

What are your thoughts?  Also, if anyone here is Mormon, no disrespect intended.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Mar 23, 2010)

I think this would be helpful in your understanding of what they believe.  This information is coming from an EX-Mormon.  ETA: Make sure to click on the links in his site...they give additional information!

***************
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/mormonism.html

Is Mormonism Christian? 
The question above actually can be phrased in several ways:


'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' *NO*.  Mormonism is not Christian because it *denies some of the essential  doctrines* of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2)  salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ.  Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of  monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.  The evidence for these statements is documented in section 3 below.
'Are Mormons Christians?' *LIKELY NOT*, if they  believe the major doctrines of their church.
'Can a Mormon be a Christian?'. *POSSIBLY*. Only  God knows what each person believes (and why) regarding His Son, Jesus  Christ. But as a person stays in the Mormon church, absorbs and accepts  Mormon teaching, doctrine and 'latter-day revelation', the chances of  answering the question in the affirmative approach zero. The key  question Mormons must answer is '*WHO is the Jesus they believe in*'?
 		In the New Testament book of 2 Corinthians, the apostle Paul warns  of "*another Jesus* whom we have not preached... a *different  spirit* which you have not received... a *different gospel*  which you have not accepted" (2 Cor. 11:4).
 		In the New Testament book of Galatians, Paul again warns: "But even  if we or *an angel from heaven should preach a gospel* other than  the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" (Gal. 1:8).
 		Ironically, this latter warning is a nearly *exact description of  how the Mormon church was founded*:


In 1820, Joseph Smith Jr., age 14, went into the woods near  Palmyra, New York to pray concerning the different denominations of  Christianity. Allegedly, God the Father and Jesus appeared to him and  told him not to join any of those churches. Three years later *an  angel named Moroni*, the son of the leader of a people called the  Nephites who had lived in the Americas around 400 AD, appeared to Smith  and told him that Smith had been chosen to translate a book written on  golden plates by Moroni's father. Smith claimed to receive the plates  along with instructions to begin the translation, which was published in  1830 as the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is supposedly the  account of an ancient people who came from the Middle-East to the  Americas. Smith claimed that during the translation process, John the  Baptist appeared to him and ordained him to accomplish the divine *work  of restoring the true church by preaching the true gospel *which,  allegedly, had been lost from the earth. From 1833-1835, a collection of  additional 'revelations from God' to Joseph Smith were published by the  LDS church as the 'Doctrine  and Covenants'. In 1880 another work, the 'Pearl  of Great Price', was also added to the Mormon body of 'scripture'.
The Mormon view of the Bible is summed up in a statement by  the most famous Mormon apologist: "The Bible of the Old World has come  to us from the manuscripts of antiquity - manuscripts which passed  through the hands of *uninspired* men who *changed* many parts  to suit their own doctrinal ideas. *Deletions* were common, and,  as it now stands, many plain and precious portions and many covenants of  the Lord have been *lost*. As a consequence, *those who rely  upon it alone *[the Bible]* stumble and are confused*" (Bruce  McConkie, in The Ensign, December 1985, p 55).
 	In the material below, I examine the major doctrines of the Mormon  church and compare them to those taught by orthodox Christianity. The  reader can judge whether or not Mormon teachings describe a "different  Jesus" and a "different gospel".
*1. A *Word*  to Mormons*. If you are a Mormon, please read the material in  section 1 before you proceed.
*2. Claims Made by the Mormon Church.* Section 2 gives  background information on the LDS (Mormon) church, their statements  regarding other churches, and their claims about what constitutes  'scripture'.


claims to be Christian
claims to be the only  true Church
the truth of the Mormon church should be confirmed by an inner  feeling
only Mormon  scriptures are considered reliable, not the Bible
claims to receive modern-day  revelation that supercedes Biblical teaching
 *3. Mormon Doctrine Compared to Biblical Doctrine.* Section 3  is the largest section of the material (>50 pages). It is intended to  focus on Mormon teaching about 4 essential subjects. The approach taken  throughout is to simply quote original sources, both Biblical and  Mormon, with minimal commentary. The reader can decide if there is a  conflict between the two and is encouraged to look up the original  materials. Each of the four sections is indexed to a summary table  comparing Mormon with Biblical beliefs.


Mormon teachings about God
Mormon teachings about Jesus
Mormon teachings about salvation
Mormon teachings about man
 *4. Mormon *Literature  and Leaders. This reference section gives more information on  source materials plus brief descriptions of the people and books quoted  in sections 2 and 3. It is important to know the background because many  of the Mormon authors spoke in an official capacity or claimed to have  direct revelation from God. If Mormons argue that their prophets weren't  speaking authoritatively, they haven't read the original  quotations of their leaders.


*5. Unique Mormon *Definitions.  Mormons, especially LDS missionaries, use many of the same Biblical  terms familiar to Christians. Yet most of these terms carry different  meanings, making it critically important to define those terms.

*6. Other *Serious  Problems* with Mormonism.* Major doctrinal issues are covered  above, but there are many other difficulties and inconsistencies with  Mormonism. In this section, I've made a partial list of these and given  some useful starting points for further investigation. The serious  truth-seeker should examine each of these topics.

*7. Topical *Index*  to this site. *A different way to access most of this material.

 	 		[FONT=arial,helvetica][ Michael  Davis' Virtual Office | Michael  Davis' Mormonism Homepage | Mormonism  Topical Index ][/FONT]

 [SIZE=-1]  copyright © 1995-2010  *Leadership U*.  All rights reserved. [/SIZE]


----------



## Guitarhero (Mar 24, 2010)

The reason they mentioned race was that they recently changed their doctrine to include that Blacks are equal and can achieve higher status in their hierarchy.


----------



## LongTimeComing (Mar 24, 2010)

CreoleNat said:


> The reason they mentioned race was that they recently changed their doctrine to include that Blacks are equal and can achieve higher status in their hierarchy.



I had a Mormon guy approach me in 2003. I asked him flat why was he talking to me if I would not be accepted by this belief system. He pulled out his wallet and showed me a picture of his beautiful girlfriend, who was black. ( He was white by the way.) He said that all people were 'accepted', but hinted that some people may be stuck in their ways and not be so welcoming.

To answer the original question op, I am not Mormon. I don't agree with some of their beliefs. Just as with all other denominations/ variations of Christianity I feel like if that is what they believe, that is between them and God. 

Get Him, however you decide for you is right, just get Him.


----------



## maxineshaw (Mar 24, 2010)

CreoleNat said:


> The reason they mentioned race was that they recently changed their doctrine to include that Blacks are equal and can achieve higher status in their hierarchy.



Banned Mormon Cartoon

2:20 is when they mention the "black" issue


----------



## arosieworld (Mar 24, 2010)

Even though I am not Morman and don't agree with the religion I have to say that they ARE Christian. To be Christian you have only to believe in Christ and that Jesus is your savior. While they may not meet the qualifications of a specific domination, to say the are not Christian or unchristian is something many would find very offensive. They believe in the Bible but have additional books including the book of Morman. I have read it and it is......interesting to say the least. The only thing that struck me as a valid point is their dislike of crosses because they believe you should celebrate Jesus's life and not his death.


----------



## Bunny77 (Mar 24, 2010)

msdr said:


> I had a Mormon guy approach me in 2003. I asked him flat why was he talking to me if I would not be accepted by this belief system. He pulled out his wallet and showed me a picture of his beautiful girlfriend, who was black. ( He was white by the way.) He said that all people were 'accepted', but hinted that some people may be stuck in their ways and not be so welcoming.
> 
> To answer the original question op, I am not Mormon. I don't agree with some of their beliefs. Just as with all other denominations/ variations of Christianity I feel like if that is what they believe, that is between them and God.
> 
> Get Him, however you decide for you is right, just get Him.



This is funny because a Mormon dude tried to date me for a minute. He was divorced and his ex-wife was black. 


Anyway, young Mormon men (and some women) always complete a two-year mission in which they are sent to a particular place. They are supposed to work to help improve that community through service and spread the word about Mormonism. They are generally very friendly and not intrusive. If you aren't interested in hearing them, you can say no, and they'll go on about their way. 

So I wouldn't worry OP. When they come back, just thank them, and tell them that you are happy with who you are and then they should move on.

I don't have any particular thoughts one way or the other about Mormons. They had backwards thoughts about race for a long time, for sure, but most Christian denominations have not exactly been wonderful in this realm either. I also won't take it upon myself to say that they aren't Christian. That's not my place. If they believe in Jesus Christ as their savior, that's Christian enough for me.

I do admire their commitment to marriage, family and building community. (And no, not the extreme polygamist ones). In that area, I think that a lot of mainline Christians could learn a lot from the way Mormons promote family, personal responsibility and community service.


----------



## hopeful (Mar 24, 2010)

Religion aside, I would not let three dudes (white or black) that I did not know into my home even if my husband was there.  Too dangerous.  They need to give you their pamphlet and keep it moving.


----------



## RUBY (Mar 24, 2010)

I've just finished reading the book _The 19th wife _by David Ebershoff so this thread is right on time. The book included some historical info about the founding of the mormon church and the breakaway sect the Firsts LDS who still practice polygamy. 

I didn't know that they had a 'special' doctrine against blacks as the book didn't mention it and I assumed it was an all white church because of its establishment with the immigrant dutch/scandanavian people who lived quite isolated. 

Does anyone know what they believe/d about black people? I'll try and poke around and get some more info myself as well.


----------



## JustKiya (Mar 24, 2010)

RUBY said:


> I've just finished reading the book _The 19th wife _by David Ebershoff so this thread is right on time. The book included some historical info about the founding of the mormon church and the breakaway sect the Firsts LDS who still practice polygamy.
> 
> I didn't know that they had a 'special' doctrine against blacks as the book didn't mention it and I assumed it was an all white church because of its establishment with the immigrant dutch/scandanavian people who lived quite isolated.
> 
> *Does anyone know what they believe/d about black people? I'll try and poke around and get some more info myself as well.*



*tiptoes in* 

I've read the Book Of Mormon, and it specifically states that ones skin color is a symbol of one's purity - the darker you are, the closer you are to evil. 
That is why black people couldn't 'reach' higher levels in the hierarchy, as they weren't outwardly pure enough to do so. 

It's interesting that they changed their standing on that - I wonder if they will add a concordance to the BoM as well, stating that darker skin isn't out and out a sign of impurity/sin. 

*tiptoes back out*


----------



## Bunny77 (Mar 24, 2010)

JustKiya said:


> *tiptoes in*
> 
> I've read the Book Of Mormon, and it specifically states that ones skin color is a symbol of one's purity - the darker you are, the closer you are to evil.
> That is why black people couldn't 'reach' higher levels in the hierarchy, as they weren't outwardly pure enough to do so.
> ...



I've studied this a little (admittedly for selfish reasons... the aforementioned dude I was talking about who preferred dating black women). 

Joseph Smith, the man who received the revelation, was believed to be an abolitionist, and he welcomed blacks into Mormonism. Blacks became Mormon priests (the highest level of the hierarchy) when Smith led the group. Brigham Young, who took over when Smith was killed, was the one who moved Mormons from the Midwest to Utah and he established the racial policy that blacks could not reach priesthood. 

(There's some speculation that Young did this because one of the black members began taking multiple white women as wives... and cheating, etc., etc.) 

This lasted until 1978, when the statement was dropped. Today, some of the fastest growing Mormon churches are in South America and Africa (Ghana and Nigeria of all places). I know Gladys Knight converted and is an outspoken advocate. 

What Kiya said fits with what I read as well. I'm not sure if Smith initially placed that line in the Book of Mormon, or if Young added it later on.

I'll also tiptoe out, because I admit I am far from an expert on this topic...


----------



## Keen (Mar 24, 2010)

^^^ Their book seem to go through many updates. So they can add or delete whatever they want...


----------



## determine3 (Mar 24, 2010)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I think this would be helpful in your understanding of what they believe. This information is coming from an EX-Mormon. ETA: Make sure to click on the links in his site...they give additional information!
> 
> ***************
> http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/mormonism.html
> ...


 
Thanks for this wealth of information!!!!


----------



## determine3 (Mar 24, 2010)

Thanks for all your replies!  

They came back today and I told them that I was satisfied studying the Holy Bible and that I'm comfortable with my walk with God so I was going to pass on their meeting.  They were a bit offended and wanted to know why and what came up and so on and I told them I was not comfortable but thanks for coming.  I gave them back their book (bc if not, it was going into the trash which is unfair) and they were insisting that I keep it.  Long story short, I gave back the book and they left.  

I feel better and wish them all the best


----------



## RUBY (Apr 2, 2010)

Bunny77 said:


> I've studied this a little (admittedly for selfish reasons... the aforementioned dude I was talking about who preferred dating black women).
> 
> Joseph Smith, the man who received the revelation, was believed to be an abolitionist, and he welcomed blacks into Mormonism. Blacks became Mormon priests (the highest level of the hierarchy) when Smith led the group. Brigham Young, who took over when Smith was killed, was the one who moved Mormons from the Midwest to Utah and he established the racial policy that blacks could not reach priesthood.
> 
> ...


 
I found this article after reading your post. 
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004035176_mormon26.html


----------



## Coffee (Apr 4, 2010)

While I don't believe in their way of thinking, they are doing what we all should be doing as Christians. They go out and spread their "word". I live in a large Morman neighborhood and they are some of the best neighbors you can have. When I had my knee replacement surgery, it was the Morman families who cooked dinner and brought it over. One neighbor who lived down the street and we didn't know, stopped when she saw me walking with my walker and asked what happened and did I need anything. Later that evening, she dropped off a loaf of warm homemade wheat bread!! For Easter, the lady across the street made fruit dishes for the entire development, 33 homes! What they believe is between them and their God. I am the only one I can get into heaven .


----------



## mz tracy 25 (Apr 4, 2010)

I remember hearing that they believed blacks were originally fallen angels/demons that chose to follow Lucifer when he was kicked out of heaven. Don't quote me.


----------



## Sharpened (Apr 4, 2010)

Why does it seem like different groups have a little bit right and so much wrong? This is why I am done with religion, sects, denominations, labels, what have you. I want my Father and to do His will (Philippians 2:12). Nothing or no one will get in my way; I can do that just fine all by self.


----------



## Prudent1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Nymphe said:


> *Why does it seem like different groups have a* *little bit right and so much wrong?* This is why I am done with religion, sects, denominations, labels, what have you. I want my Father and to do His will (Philippians 2:12). Nothing or no one will get in my way; I can do that just fine all by self.


Because they do! Divide and conquer. That's an old but effective military strategy. Cause dissention and chaos within the ranks so that they turn on each other. That is exactly why there are so many religions out there. A little lie is still a lie. A little sin is still sin. A ship or plane a little off course is still going to end up at the wrong destination. A little pregnant is still pregnant. A little cancer or AIDS is still deadly. You get the picture. Coffee and others are correct. If Christians were consistently doing good for the right reasons this whole world would be vastly different. Many are not. This is why we all must have a personal relationship with Christ. So that he can personally reveal some things to you. Those things will not deviate from what is already in the bible but will be clarified aned magnified not added, subtracted, or amended. A simple test I would give my kids when they were little to tell the difference between a Christian outreach effort versus another religion is whether the ACLU gets all uptight and begins to protest. Case in point, we've all seen the warm, fuzzy, feeling LDS TV ads about family etc etc. What if let's say T D Jakes wanted to air a national TV ad in the same way. We know it would almost be impossible in most areas of the country. Why aren't other religions (and I pretty much loathe that word) treated the same way? Matt 12:26- _*26*If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? _
JMHO


----------



## Guitarhero (Apr 5, 2010)

Coffee said:


> While I don't believe in their way of thinking, they are doing what we all should be doing as Christians. They go out and spread their "word". I live in a large Morman neighborhood and they are some of the best neighbors you can have. When I had my knee replacement surgery, it was the Morman families who cooked dinner and brought it over. One neighbor who lived down the street and we didn't know, stopped when she saw me walking with my walker and asked what happened and did I need anything. Later that evening, she dropped off a loaf of warm homemade wheat bread!! For Easter, the lady across the street made fruit dishes for the entire development, 33 homes! What they believe is between them and their God. *I am the only one I can get into heaven* .



That's true and although I know they and others are good samaritans, I still have to follow christian orthodoxy to get into heaven.  There's nothing wrong with guarding  it and doing so doesn't necessarily equate with judging them through hypocrisy.


----------



## Coffee (Apr 6, 2010)

CreoleNat said:


> That's true and although I know they and others are good samaritans, I still have to follow christian orthodoxy to get into heaven. There's nothing wrong with guarding it and doing so doesn't necessarily equate with judging them through hypocrisy.


 
I'm not sure what you mean in your post. As long as I am secure in my faith, which I am, I don't have a problem with what others believe. My neighbors haven't ever talked religion with us, so your statment leaves me a bit confused .


----------



## Keen (Apr 6, 2010)

I have to say the mormons I know are some of the nicest people I've met. They seemed to be so genuine and honest. I went to school with one, he was so humble. We ran into a few in Sao Paulo, Brazil. At first we didn't want to talk to them because we thought they were going to start preaching but instead we just talked about their travels and what they have been doing. I think they were just glad to see Americans.


----------



## CoilyFields (Apr 7, 2010)

We have to be careful who we include in the blanket of "christianity".

Mormons are not Christian. 

Three central beliefs of christianity are Jesus as the only son of God, His resurrection from the dead to save us from sin (messiah), and the Bible as the authoritative word of God.

believing that Jesus existed does not equal Christianity. Other religions believe in Jesus also, some call him a prophet, a good teacher, others even call him the sibling of their other gods. But He says that you MUST believe him to be THE ONLY WAY to God. If you dont believe that then you are not adhering to the tenants of Christian doctrine...hence not christian. (Please do not mistake Mormon variations to be similar to those between catholic and protestant, baptist, mehtodist, and luthren. The differences in these are based on interpretation of the SAME scripture and they all still come together concerning the central principles in Christianity).

For example, Muslims and Jews also believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as Christians do...but that doesnt make them Christian because they diverge on the central topic of Jesus.

Mormons also believe that God was once human like us and that we too will one day become gods like him. They also believe that Jesus was the brother of Lucifer, .

Its important to study to show ourselves approved because the Bible says that the path to destruction is wide but the right way is narrow. We also need to be able to minister to them (not argue...minister!) when they approach us.

DISCLAIMER: This does NOT mean that mormons or members of any other religion are bad people!


----------



## Keshieshimmer (Apr 19, 2011)

Mormons are not Christian. The reason why Smith 'created' this sect was because he said God was unhappy with the Christian sects at that time. They are here to separate themselves from these other sects. 

They also don't have crosses as their symbol. They believe that they will become gods with God in their celestial kingdom. They baptize people who have passed to give them a chance at salvation. They have holy temples that only good standing Mormons can enter. They must be interviewed by two elders to enter.

It is quite convenient that they now want to be linked with these so called Christian groups.

Having said that I am working hard to not be angry about that because in the end it has nothing to do with me. I am also good friends with a LDS girl. They are some of the most welcoming people I have met. I am also touring the temple before they bless it in Atlanta, this weekend.

whoops this is old. lol


----------



## Prudent1 (Apr 20, 2011)

Not meaning to stir up controversy or offense but do we all know there will be a lot of good, nice, friendly people in hell? Niceness as warm as it feels does not equate to truth.

*True and False Disciples* Matt. 7
    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ 

Isa 64:6-
6 *All of us *have become like one who is unclean, 
   and all _our righteous _acts are like filthy rags; 
we all shrivel up like a leaf, 
   and like the wind our sins sweep us away. 

John 14:6-
 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

They have the niceness down pat but not the faith. We are faith ppl. Works (being nice) do not save us.


----------



## Guitarhero (Apr 20, 2011)

determine3 said:


> Today after I pulled up in my driveway from picking up my daughters from school, three young white males were walking on my street and when they saw me pull up they started heading my way.  I am very protective of my children so I hovered in my car for a bit and noticed they were not moving so I wound down my window (partially) and asked if I could help them?  They were very cordial but I said to them, I don't feel comfortable the way the rolled up on my with their black hoods and the "leader" showed me his name badge and told me they were Mormons all the way from Utah spreading the word.  I relaxed and then they said they wanted to give me a Mormon book to which I had absolutely no idea...I figured they were another type of Christian and can they come in to discusserplexed?
> 
> I said no, my Husband has a strict rule about that type of thing (which is not true but in this case it is...)  and they said they would come back tomorrow when he is home.
> 
> ...




I agree with you and with Nice &Wavy as well.  Knowledge of another is power and sets your own beliefs more strongly.  Thing is, they, pentecostals and JW's come to our home all the time seeking to enlighten us.  Last weekend, a JW lady made her 3rd round, while we were home, and she left a note for my daughter.  I think what happened was that the 2nd time, I wasn't home and she opened up the door.  Yes, I had a serious talk with them chillins...oh goodness...however, it's a lady and her daughter.  I have a cousin who converted JW, Jews, Muslims and baptists, traditionals etc. in our family and most of them think our family is wrong for being catholics lol!  I respect them and we do talk religion and politics during family get-togethers, but we are respectful and there is no overt swaying of religion.  That's what I'd expect others to do, not attempt to convert me nor my children.  So, no, I also do not like when I'm being proselytized.  It's my choice to be whatever I wish to be.  I'd tell them up front you are not interested and don't back down, they will come back again and again.  As for typecasting them, I don't.  I'm simply not interested in them except for their genealogy libraries.  I wouldn't say they aren't christians because they believe in Jesus as the Christ.


----------

