# Definition of "Deep Condition"



## anon123 (Sep 16, 2008)

Inspired by the "definition of protective style" thread, I'm curious to see what people mean when they say "deep conditioning".  Is it just any conditioner left on for a long period of time?  Any conditioner + heat? Or conditioner + your favorite goodies like honey, yogurt, etc.  A special conditioner that specifically says for "deep conditioning" (and if you choose this option, can you please let me know exactly what ingredients make something a deep conditioner)?


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## Fine 4s (Sep 16, 2008)

Mwedzi,

Thank you for asking this question.
I haven't got a good response to this yet! 
I think for some, applying heat with the DC simply helps the DC penetrate better. I've heard someone mention on this list that they shed more if they do not use heat to DC. In other words heat alone does not make it a DC.

Here's what I saved on this topic....

(never read it all :S)

​*http://healthytextures.typepad.com/m...ou_h.html#more*

*Beginning your Hair Journey V - Conditioners 101*

Conditioning is extremely important for highly textured hair. Conditioning helps prevent damage from heat styling tools and replaces moisture and vital proteins into the hair shaft. It is particularly important for those with damaged or chemically treated hair. While you can not repair damaged hair, you can restore luster, shine and strength while the damaged hair grows long enough to be replaced.


*
How Conditioners Work
*
Our hair is comprised of three layers: the medulla, the cortex and the cuticle. The medulla is the innermost layer of the hair shaft and is merely a hollow canal of protein. All of the other layers are formed around the medulla. The cortex is the second layer. The color forming pigments that determine your hair color as well as the bonds that determine the shape of your hair are located in this layer. The cuticle, or outermost layer, shields the cortex by forming a protective barrier of overlapping scales, sort of like shingles on a house. When the cuticles lay flat, they reflect light and make the hair appear shiny and healthy. Conditioners try to artificially re-create the appearance of healthy hair by using special chemical agents to penetrate the cortex and seal the cuticle.

*
Instant Conditioners
*
There are three main conditioners; instant, deep penetrating and leave-in. Instant Conditioners are applied to the hair and then rinsed out after a few minutes. They attempt to smooth the cuticles and coat the hair shaft to make the hair look shiny and healthy. They work by coating the cuticle with a microfilm coating, usually a wax, that fills in or lays down the cuticle to make it shine and/or easier to detangle. 

However, artificially laying down the cuticle will only provide a temporary fix. If you really want results, you need to deep condition with a penetrating conditioner. Deep conditioners use natural body heat or artificial heat from a hood dryer to lift the cuticle and penetrate the cortex. 

*
Deep Penetrating Conditioners
*
There are two main types of deep or penetrating conditioners; moisture and protein.

Protein based conditioners are designed to increase the diameter of the hair with a coating action. This will strengthen the hair and add body. 
Hair that is severely damaged will need a concentrated protein conditioner. These conditioners are designed to pass through the cuticle, penetrate the cortex and replace keratin lost during chemical services. They are designed to equalize porosity, increase elasticity and improve overall appearance. Because the hair is filled with new keratin, it will feel hard after use and should be followed with a moisturizing conditioner to soften and lubricate the hair shaft. Concentrated protein are NOT recommended for use after a chemical treatment like a relaxer, color or perm. These conditioners will disrupt the desired rearrangement of protein bonds formed by these chemical services.

In addition, to protein based conditioners, there are moisturizing deep penetrating conditioners. These conditioners contain humectants that attract moisture and are absorbed into the hair cortex. *The difference between instant and deep moisturizing conditioner is that deep treatments contain a **quaternary ammonium component included in the chemical formulation of moisturizers so they are able to attach themselves to the hair fiber and provide longer lasting moisture.*

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Which Conditioner to Use
*
An excellent deep conditioning treatment will be a little bit of both. High quality deep conditioners usually contain a concentrated protein in a heavy cream based moisturizer. This will provide deposit moisture and strength into the hair shaft. When used consistently, this deep conditioning treatment will reduce cuticle roughness, strengthen the strands and make the hair more manageable and shiny. This is why it is important to deep condition once a week every week.

As a general rule of thumb, deep penetrating conditioners will instruct you (on the back of the bottle) to leave the product on for 10-20 minutes.

*
Leave-In Conditioners
*
Leave-in conditioners are designed to protect the hair from styling and day to day handling. Leave-in conditioners work by placing a positive buildup on the hair shaft which will add elasticity and act as a band-aid on damaged parts of the hair strands.


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## Vshanell (Sep 16, 2008)

I only deep condition using a conditioner specifically made for deep conditioning.  Instant conditioners won't penetrate the hair shaft no matter how long you leave them on so imo they are a no no for deep conditioning.  They might feel good but they aren't getting the job done.


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## anon123 (Sep 16, 2008)

Fine 4s said:


> Mwedzi,
> 
> These conditioners contain humectants that attract moisture and are absorbed into the hair cortex. *The difference between instant and deep moisturizing conditioner is that deep treatments contain a **quaternary ammonium component included in the chemical formulation of moisturizers so they are able to attach themselves to the hair fiber and provide longer lasting moisture.*



Thanks for this.  So a deep conditioner must have this quaternary ammonium component and then if it's a protein deep conditioner it must have protein and if it's a moisturizing deep conditioner it must have a humectant.    I don't quite understand what this quaternary ammonium thing is or how to recognize it by reading an ingredients label. I wonder if this means that there are no all natural deep conditioners?  

And as to the labeling, well, I had this KBB hair mask that said it can be used for deep conditioning if you use heat but all the ingredients were just oils and butters and probably a humectant like panthenol but I don't know if there was anything in there that could be classified as a "quaternary ammonium".  I wonder if some conditioners follow the definition of deep conditioning that just means "leave on longer, apply heat".  Same thing for my Aubrey Organics.

I also wonder what the average LHCFer means when they say they deep conditioned their hair.  The definition seems to be really variable.


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## gorgeoushair (Sep 16, 2008)

I used to think that a "deep conditioner" was a conditioner that had a mixture of protein and moisture like Motions CPR, ORS Hair Mayo, etc but that's not always the case b/c some really good moisturizing conditioners don't have any protein

So deep conditioning is using a good penetrating conditioner w/a plastic cap w/ heat for at least 10-15 min.  This is how I deep condition along w/ others on here

Some also use a plastic cap w/ no heat for 30 min-1hr or more.

I would never use an instant conditioner for a DC.  Most DC says "deep conditioner on the bottle.


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## TaraDyan (Sep 16, 2008)

Pokahontas said:


> I only deep condition using a conditioner specifically made for deep conditioning. Instant conditioners won't penetrate the hair shaft no matter how long you leave them on so imo they are a no no for deep conditioning. They might feel good but they aren't getting the job done.


 
*ITA with this post.  I always felt that when I tried to make instant conditioners behave like deep conditioners by using heat, it still didn't get the job done like my deep conditioners do.*


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## Irresistible (Sep 16, 2008)

Could you guys also name your Deep Conditioners


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## Fine 4s (Sep 16, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> Thanks for this. So a deep conditioner must have this quaternary ammonium component and then if it's a protein deep conditioner it must have protein and if it's a moisturizing deep conditioner it must have a humectant. I don't quite understand what this quaternary ammonium thing is or how to recognize it by reading an ingredients label. I wonder if this means that there are no all natural deep conditioners?
> 
> VERY good question. Which is why when folks make their own DC's with natural ingredients like honey, avocadoes, shea butter, eggs etc. I wonder how far do those molecules penetrate the hair strand?  Last year, I found a list of ingredients commonly found in beauty/hair products (I think the site was advocated against these chemicals) and teased out the ones that contained the quat term...
> 
> ...


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## gorgeoushair (Sep 16, 2008)

Irresistible said:


> Could you guys also name your Deep Conditioners


 

Do you really want a list?

Some I have used or using:
Motions CPR Conditioning Treatment
Motions Silk Protein
Motions Moisture Plus
Keracare Humecto
Kenra MC
Kenra CMC
ORS Hair Mayo
Aphogee 2 min Reconstructor
Aubrey GPB
Pantene R&N Mask
Profectiv Growth Masque
Profectiv Growth Conditioner
Silicon Mix

that's all i can think of


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## felicia (Sep 16, 2008)

So, natural conditioners can't be deep conditioners?


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## Irresistible (Sep 16, 2008)

gorgeoushair said:


> Do you really want a list?
> 
> Some I have used or using:
> Motions CPR Conditioning Treatment
> ...



Thank you girl, thats just what I wanted


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## Jade Feria (Sep 16, 2008)

*I usually use:
NTM Mask
ORS Mayo
ApHogee Treatment for damaged hair
ApHogee 2 min reconstructor*


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## wheezy807 (Sep 16, 2008)

Pokahontas said:


> I only deep condition using a conditioner specifically made for deep conditioning. Instant conditioners won't penetrate the hair shaft no matter how long you leave them on so imo they are a no no for deep conditioning. They might feel good but they aren't getting the job done.


 ITA. A deep conditioner is a conditioner specifically made for deep conditioning.

Mwedzi this is an excellent thread. I hope this can clear up some things for some of the ladies. NO deep conditioning with CHEAPIES (VO5, suave, etc.)!


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## MizAvalon (Sep 16, 2008)

wheezy807 said:


> ITA. A deep conditioner is a conditioner specifically made for deep conditioning.
> 
> Mwedzi this is an excellent thread. I hope this can clear up some things for some of the ladies. NO deep conditioning with CHEAPIES (VO5, suave, etc.)!


 
Agreed. I see this sometimes and I'm like...erplexed.

Leaving an instant conditioner on for a long time doesn't magically make it a deep conditioner. This needs to be repeated over and over and over again.


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## anon123 (Sep 16, 2008)

MizAvalon said:


> Agreed. I see this sometimes and I'm like...erplexed.
> 
> Leaving an instant conditioner on for a long time doesn't magically make it a deep conditioner. This needs to be repeated over and over and over again.



I can see this.  But then this leads to the question, what about pricier conditioners?  If the key component is this quaternary ammonium that makes something a deep conditioner, then many expensive conditioners don't meet this requirement, either.  Aubrey Organics GPB, for example.  What would make AO GPB more of a deep conditioner than V05?

Actually what I wanted most to see is just how people were using the term, not the "right" answer.  Just because when I read threads talking about deep conditioning, I can't tell what the person is saying. Like the thread on how many times a week are you DCing?  I don't know how to answer that question.  Or what people's answers to that question even mean.


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## gymfreak336 (Sep 16, 2008)

To me Deep Condition means 

1. The product advises to be used for longer than 5 or so minutes. More like 10-20. 

2. Products that usually have a mix of protein and moisture tend to be more deep conditioning too me, atleast based on experience and trends in labels

or Protein Products that pentrate quickly because of the molecular weight. These "deep condition" but I refer to them as reconstructors because they still need additional conditioning afterwards. 

Examples....

Pantene Relaxed and Natural Mask
ORS Mayo
ORS replenishing conditioner
Motions Silk Protein
Kenra Mask
Kenra MC
Redken Buttertreat


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## gymfreak336 (Sep 16, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> I can see this.  But then this leads to the question, what about pricier conditioners?  If the key component is this quaternary ammonium that makes something a deep conditioner, then many expensive conditioners don't meet this requirement, either.  Aubrey Organics GPB, for example.  What would make AO GPB more of a deep conditioner than V05?
> 
> Actually what I wanted most to see is just how people were using the term, not the "right" answer.  Just because when I read threads talking about deep conditioning, I can't tell what the person is saying. Like the thread on how many times a week are you DCing?  I don't know how to answer that question.  Or what people's answers to that question even mean.




But quaternary ammonium isn't the only thing that helps pentration in a product. The molecular weight of the molecules, especially the protein molecules is a factor in penetration for example.


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## ajargon02 (Sep 16, 2008)

Very interesting ladies! I will have to keep reading. I hope more respond!


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## JustKiya (Sep 16, 2008)

I consider any conditioner that states 'for more impact/for extra dry hair leave on for 7+ minutes' a deep conditioner. 
I consider SOME of my homemade 'treats' - mainly the caramel - as a deep conditioner. 
I consider almost anything with honey and or molasses in it a DC - esp if it's 'base' is one of the above.  

Usually, when I use the term DC, I really do mean deep conditioning, because 90% of my conditioners meet the above requirements. 

I don't consider the cheapie conditioners DC's, no matter how long I leave them on - and even with honey mixed in - meh, it's not the same, and my hair can tell it.


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## anon123 (Sep 16, 2008)

gymfreak336 said:


> But quaternary ammonium isn't the only thing that helps pentration in a product. The molecular weight of the molecules, especially the protein molecules is a factor in penetration for example.



thanks for the reply.  so is there any particular type of protein molecule that i'm looking for. that is, when i read the ingredients label is there anything i can recognize?  because, for example, most of the cheap v05 conditioners have both humectants and protein in them, so i don't understand what about them wouldn't be a deep conditioner.

am i the only one who can't really tell any difference between deep conditioners and regular conditioners?  actually, i can't tell the difference between any conditioner once it's been rinsed off my hair, whether i've used heat or not or whether it's called "deep conditioner" or not.  i can tell the difference a little between -cone and non-cone conditioners and a difference in scent, but that's about all.


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## Violets-are-blue (Sep 16, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> am i the only one who can't really tell any difference between deep conditioners and regular conditioners?  actually, i can't tell the difference between any conditioner once it's been rinsed off my hair, whether i've used heat or not or whether it's called "deep conditioner" or not.  i can tell the difference a little between -cone and non-cone conditioners and a difference in scent, but that's about all.



I'd like to think that overtime deep conditioners benefit the health of your hair. I also agree with JustKiya's definition of a deep conditioner usually telling users that it should be left of for more than 7 minutes, etc for deeper conditioning. I think instant conditioners might be good for the after-detangling I have to do, maybe even more than my deep conditioner. When I use AO honeysuckle rose to deep condition, the slip's not that great, but overtime I notice my hair being more and more stretchable. But, when I deep conditioned with HSR then used Silicon Mix in the shower, that helped with detangling. SM has a few useful ingredients, but the instructions say to leave it on for 2 to 3 minutes, so I have trouble thinking of it as a deep conditioner. To me, it just makes detangling easier and makes my hair shinier. But I don't necesarrily think by itself it'll greatly increase the health of my hair. As for things mixed in with home ingredients, I think those can turn a cheapie into more of a deep conditioner because the molecules of many home ingredients can improve the health of the hair. Before I could afford deep conditioners, I took some tresemme and mixed honey and other random things into it and I could feel an improvement in my hair overtime. 

So basically, in my mind anyway, Deep Conditioners are for the health of the hair and Instant Conditioners for detangling/laying down the cuticles but not necessarily for increasing the health of m hair.


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## Prettypsych (Sep 16, 2008)

Cathy Howse  suggests that heat has to be used in order to swell/open the hair shaft so that the DC can penetrate. I have seen a few ladies indicate that they don't use a dryer, but will cover their heads with plastic caps and  towels (sometimes a hot towels) in order to use their own body heat. I have no idea if this works as well as a dryer, but the  idea is that heat is needed. Also, she recommends at least a 15-min treatment time.

To add to the list, Cathy Howse also has her own DC called Ultra Black Hair.


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## gorgeoushair (Sep 16, 2008)

Deep Conditioners are more concentrated and usually contains most of the agents and ingredients that are in instant conditioners.  Deep conditioners are of greater intensity than instant conditioners.


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## gorgeoushair (Sep 16, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> thanks for the reply. so is there any particular type of protein molecule that i'm looking for. that is, when i read the ingredients label is there anything i can recognize? because, for example, most of the cheap v05 conditioners have both humectants and protein in them, so i don't understand what about them wouldn't be a deep conditioner.
> 
> am i the only one who can't really tell any difference between deep conditioners and regular conditioners? actually, i can't tell the difference between any conditioner once it's been rinsed off my hair, whether i've used heat or not or whether it's called "deep conditioner" or not. i can tell the difference a little between -cone and non-cone conditioners and a difference in scent, but that's about all.


 
Really?  How are you applying your deep conditioner?


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## Wishin4BSL (Sep 16, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> thanks for the reply. so is there any particular type of protein molecule that i'm looking for. that is, when i read the ingredients label is there anything i can recognize? because, for example, most of the cheap v05 conditioners have both humectants and protein in them, so i don't understand what about them wouldn't be a deep conditioner.
> 
> am i the only one who can't really tell any difference between deep conditioners and regular conditioners? actually, i can't tell the difference between any conditioner once it's been rinsed off my hair, whether i've used heat or not or whether it's called "deep conditioner" or not. i can tell the difference a little between -cone and non-cone conditioners and a difference in scent, but that's about all.


 
I completely agree with this ENTIRE reply! I have NEVER been able to tell the difference except for with ONE product, and it went out of business right after I found it 3 years ago. It gave my hair amazing moisture and elasticity! I STILL can't remember the name of it either!


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## A_Christian (Sep 16, 2008)

My favorite deep conditioners are Decca Plus Satin Deep Conditioner and Affirm 5 in 1. I've always considered deep conditioners to be those that contain some protein, but that may not be accurate. If Humecto, which does not contain protein if I'm remembering the ingredient list correctly, is considered a deep conditioner then that's my all time favorite.


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## anon123 (Sep 16, 2008)

gorgeoushair said:


> Really?  How are you applying your deep conditioner?



i've tried AO HSR and GPB, KBB's hair mask that's marketed as a deep conditioner, and NTM silk touch mask, don't know how that one's marketed.  the first two i've also used as rinse out conditioners.  all of them i've tried before by applying to wet hair, putting on a shower cap, and putting on my micro heat cap and letting it sit for however long, at least 20 min.  Once I've rinsed my hair, I can't tell any difference.

wishin4bsl, i'm glad i'm not alone! the only thing i've found that i noticed an improvement in my hair in afterwards was Aveda's Damage Remedy treatment.  it really did make my hair stronger.  oh, and repeated use of actual mayonnaise or eggs + conditioner (i did this as a detangler) made my hair softer, too soft, and more prone to stretching and breaking, just the opposite of what protein is supposed to do.  go figure.


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## santwon (Sep 16, 2008)

I don't get the difference either, mwedzi. I feel kinda slow too, I've read all these books and thought I had some fundamental understanding...but now after read this I feel kinda lost. I thought it was more a function of heat making the conditioner penetrate and that it didn't really matter what kind of conditioner it was. But I now see that some people's hair is smarter than mine.


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## gymfreak336 (Sep 16, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> thanks for the reply.  so is there any particular type of protein molecule that i'm looking for. that is, when i read the ingredients label is there anything i can recognize?  because, for example, most of the cheap v05 conditioners have both humectants and protein in them, so i don't understand what about them wouldn't be a deep conditioner.
> 
> am i the only one who can't really tell any difference between deep conditioners and regular conditioners?  actually, i can't tell the difference between any conditioner once it's been rinsed off my hair, whether i've used heat or not or whether it's called "deep conditioner" or not.  i can tell the difference a little between -cone and non-cone conditioners and a difference in scent, but that's about all.




You can't really tell just by the label since it depends on how the lab cut and sliced the protein. Generally though, any deep pentrating product has proteins of a smaller molecular size to help get through. Then there are lines like joico that make small molecular size one of their selling points. 

To me, the real way I tell the difference in deep and regular conditioners is my hairs health over time. When I use deep conditioners on a regular basis, my hair help shows visble improvement. Regular conditioners imo just maintain things. This is why some people slack off with deep conditioning and don't really see any major harm done. They have built their baseline up and at that point, they are just maintaining it.


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## Casarela (Sep 16, 2008)

This is a really good thread because I didnt expect to see so many different definitions. I still wonder if when you make your own deep conditioner (eggs, avocado , honey or whatever ) if it penetrates the hair shaft as much....mmmm *thinking*


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## anon123 (Sep 17, 2008)

gymfreak336 said:


> You can't really tell just by the label since it depends on how the lab cut and sliced the protein. Generally though, any deep pentrating product has proteins of a smaller molecular size to help get through. Then there are lines like joico that make small molecular size one of their selling points.
> 
> To me, the real way I tell the difference in deep and regular conditioners is my hairs health over time. When I use deep conditioners on a regular basis, my hair help shows visble improvement. Regular conditioners imo just maintain things. This is why some people slack off with deep conditioning and don't really see any major harm done. They have built their baseline up and at that point, they are just maintaining it.



Okay, thanks.  Hmm, maybe I will try this joico and see if it makes a difference.  I'll try it several weeks in a row and see if I can notice any difference.  thanks.


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## jerseygurl (Sep 17, 2008)

For me, I use conditioners that say to leave for 15 to 20 mins under the dryer. That way the molecules can penetrate the cuticles. ITA instant conditioners only give slip and may or may not have added benefits when jazzed up. So I tend to use them after I deep condition just for the slip.
It's really difficult to know what a good conditioner is what with all the products out there but now I know to look out for QUATS.
I choose my products on how my hair feels over time so for me it's:

UBH conditioner (use moisturizing conditioner right after)
ORS replenishing 
(the mayonnaise does nothing for me)

Keep it coning ladies


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## vkb247 (Sep 17, 2008)




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## The Girl (Sep 17, 2008)

See I use DFina D and Silicon Mix they don't say 10 minutes but I do leave them on that long or longer...hmm and I use heat sometimes.  i don't know if I like the way it feels after heat though.  I will be watching this thread, school me ladies.


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## gymfreak336 (Sep 17, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> Okay, thanks.  Hmm, maybe I will try this joico and see if it makes a difference.  I'll try it several weeks in a row and see if I can notice any difference.  thanks.



You might like their moisture recovery balm. Buy it from some place where you can return it if you don't like it. Joico seems to be take it or leave it for most people. You either love it or you dont.


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## SparklingFlame (Sep 17, 2008)

_**disclaimer**_

*This is just my opinion based on what works for me so take it with a grain of salt.*


A deep conditioner is any conditioner that you put on your hair that is water based that is used in conjunction with heat.

I get the same results using my el cheapo V05 and Suave cond. that I do when I use the more expensive "deep conditioners" when I add heat for 10-20 min.


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## Qetesh (Sep 17, 2008)

i personally don't think just any conditioner can be used as a deep conditioner. 

I tried it and there was not a noticeable change in my hair. but when i use a good deep conditioner i see a noticeable change in my hair. i usually sit under the drier for 20-30 minutes heat also helps it penetrate my strands. after i notice my hair is smoother and softer, also it has a healthy sheen to it. 
i feel like hot oil treatments can help depending on your particular hair likes. 

For me personally deep conditioning with an actual deep conditioner works best. oil does a great job sealing my hair but it doesn't penetrate it even with a hot oil treatment like a deep conditioner does.


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## disgtgyal (Sep 17, 2008)

ahh man so by definition that means my biolage conditioning balm isn't a deep conditioner, and i've been using just that for 3wks omg  i guess i have to go back to humecto gosh and i was so loving the soft silky results of the condtioning balm


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## JustKiya (Sep 17, 2008)

I think, as, always, your individual head - and it's reactions to a product - should be your final guide. If the cheapies leave your hair feeling as fabulous as the Joico - rock on V05, rock on! First and foremost, use what works for *you*, and say bump it to what doesn't. 

But. If at some point - you notice something - off with your hair, something that might indicate it's a bit dry  -  try a more commonly defined 'DC', and see if that helps, ya know?


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## AlkalineSteam (Sep 17, 2008)

I'm so sad. My beloved ORS Replenishing Pak/Conditioner has a quat!!



> *Ingredients*
> 
> Water Aqua 					 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Soybean Oil Glycine Soja 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Glycerine  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Olive Oil Olea Europaea 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Hydrolyzed Collagen  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Quaternium-80  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, DMDM  Hydantoin  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Amino Silk Acid  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Dimethicone Copolyol  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Orange Oil Citrus Aupantium Dulcis 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, D'Limonene  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Panthenol Vitamin B5 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Dimethicone  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, EDTA  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Chamomile Extract Anthemis Nobilis 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Sage Extract Salvia Officinalis 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Nettle Extract Urtica Dioica 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Rosemary Extract Rosmarinus Officinalis 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Aloe Vera Gel Aloe Barbedensis 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Yarrow Extract Achilea Millefolium 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Kiwi Extract Actinidia Chinensis 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Polyquaternium-37  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Trideceth-7  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Triethanolamine  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Hydrolyzed Glycosaminoglycans  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Methylchlorosothiazolinone  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Methylchlorothiazolinone  					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Yellow No. 6 CI 15985 					 				 			 	    				 		 		 		     	 		 		 			 			 	 			 			 				  					 					 				  					 					 	, Yellow No. 5 CI 19140



What do I do now?


----------



## vkb247 (Sep 18, 2008)

^^^^Doesn't that just mean that it is a deep conditioner? If it works for you I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## shae101s (Sep 18, 2008)

I say deep conditioners are whatever we use on our hair to get it revitalized..that is, if we use a product be it natural or chemically indulgent, it is supposed to assist the hair in gaining strength, and also help condition, keep it moisturized and so forth,

For me I use mayo with olive oil, and when I need protein I use eggs, other times I use castor oil or coconut oil when I feel my hair needs a lot more moisture.


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## sunshinne368 (Sep 18, 2008)

I usually add irish moss, evoo, and coconut oil to Trader Joes Spa mositure Conditoner, but now I am wondering if this is truely a DEEP conditioner....my hair likes it, but I don't want to miss out on the good deep stuff! Can anyone tell me something?


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## ajoyfuljoy (Sep 18, 2008)

AlkalineSteam said:


> I'm so sad. My beloved ORS Replenishing Pak/Conditioner has a quat!!
> 
> 
> 
> What do I do now?


 
That means it is good. According to this thread, quats are what separate DCs from the rest.

And the quat is high up on the ingredients list...that probably explains why it is the best DC that has worked on my hair so far.


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## AlkalineSteam (Sep 18, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> That means it is good. According to this thread, quats are what separate DCs from the rest.
> 
> And the quat is high up on the ingredients list...that probably explains why it is the best DC that has worked on my hair so far.




*whew* that's what i get for skimming this thread. LOL 
BTW, i bought the bottle and I just don't feel like it works as well as the pak. no clue why.


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## Vshanell (Sep 19, 2008)

Check out this link that may help explain deep conditioners and there's also a list of common conditioners that can be used for deep conditioning.  http://motowngirl.com/content/Hair-Articles-Info/Deep-Conditioners-vs.-Reconstructors.html


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## baddison (Sep 19, 2008)

Pokahontas said:


> Check out this link that may help explain deep conditioners and there's also a list of common conditioners that can be used for deep conditioning. http://motowngirl.com/content/Hair-Articles-Info/Deep-Conditioners-vs.-Reconstructors.html


 
nice article!  it sure does help....


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## Barbara (Sep 19, 2008)

Deep conditioners are as follows: Motions Moisture Plus, :superbanana: Verifen Complex Advanced Conditioning Treatment, KeraCare Humecto, Elucence Moisture Balance, Nexxus Humectress, NTM Daily Deep Conditioner or their Hair Mask, Kenra, Paul Mitchell, Biolage, Elasta IQ, Dudley, Decca, etc.

Hair should be saturated and covered with a plastic conditioning cap for 30 minutes or more (even an hour) to allow the heat from the head to warm the product.  If hair is covered less than 30 minutes, then it's necessary to use a dryer or heat cap for at least 15 minutes.  My stylist keeps me under the dryer for 20 to 30 minutes at a warm setting (even longer if he's working on someone else's hair).


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## disgtgyal (Sep 19, 2008)

So the instructions dictate whether its a deep condish or not as oppose to looking for QUATS because cathy howse condish doesn't have quats but it does say to leave on for 15-30 mins


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## me-T (Sep 19, 2008)

um... i got a question. would usin a thick leave in w/ heat (say, qhemet amla & olive heavy cream) count as dc'ing? if not, where could i buy some quat to make my own dc concoction?


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## disgtgyal (Sep 21, 2008)

according to wat posters are saying if its not made for dc-ing then no matter how long you leave it in or even if u have add heat would make it penetrait your hair... as far as quats im not sure if you'll be able to purchase that by itself. I don't think a dc has to have quats in order to be considered a dc. HTH


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## ShiShiPooPoo (Sep 23, 2008)

Irresistible said:


> Could you guys also name your Deep Conditioners


 

Yes.  If we could compile a list of DC's that would help me sooooo much!


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## Mis007 (Sep 23, 2008)

Violets-are-blue said:


> I'd like to think that overtime deep conditioners benefit the health of your hair. I also agree with JustKiya's definition of a deep conditioner usually telling users that it should be left of for more than 7 minutes, etc for deeper conditioning. I think instant conditioners might be good for the after-detangling I have to do, maybe even more than my deep conditioner. When I use AO honeysuckle rose to deep condition, the slip's not that great, but overtime I notice my hair being more and more stretchable. But, when I deep conditioned with HSR then used* Silicon Mix in the shower, that helped with detangling. SM has a few useful ingredients, but the instructions say to leave it on for 2 to 3 minutes, so I have trouble thinking of it as a deep conditioner.* To me, it just makes detangling easier and makes my hair shinier. But I don't necesarrily think by itself it'll greatly increase the health of my hair. As for things mixed in with home ingredients, I think those can turn a cheapie into more of a deep conditioner because the molecules of many home ingredients can improve the health of the hair. Before I could afford deep conditioners, I took some tresemme and mixed honey and other random things into it and I could feel an improvement in my hair overtime.
> 
> So basically, in my mind anyway, Deep Conditioners are for the health of the hair and Instant Conditioners for detangling/laying down the cuticles but not necessarily for increasing the health of m hair.


 
I would not classify the silicon Mix as a DC...more of an instant....read this on this forum...


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## Mis007 (Sep 23, 2008)

Double post...​


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## Esq.2B (Sep 28, 2008)

AlkalineSteam said:


> I'm so sad. My beloved ORS Replenishing Pak/Conditioner has a quat!!
> 
> 
> 
> What do I do now?


 
ORS Replenishing is definitely a Deep Conditioner.


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## SparklingFlame (Sep 28, 2008)

I used QB Amla and Heavy Cream as a DC and my hair was soft like butta.


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## shunta (Nov 18, 2008)

Barbara said:


> Deep conditioners are as follows: Motions Moisture Plus, :superbanana: Verifen Complex Advanced Conditioning Treatment, KeraCare Humecto, *Elucence Moisture Balance*, Nexxus Humectress, NTM Daily Deep Conditioner or their Hair Mask, Kenra, Paul Mitchell, Biolage, Elasta IQ, Dudley, Decca, etc.
> 
> Hair should be saturated and covered with a plastic conditioning cap for 30 minutes or more (even an hour) to allow the heat from the head to warm the product. If hair is covered less than 30 minutes, then it's necessary to use a dryer or heat cap for at least 15 minutes. My stylist keeps me under the dryer for 20 to 30 minutes at a warm setting (even longer if he's working on someone else's hair).


 
Yay!! My Elucence MB made the list!


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## The Princess (Nov 18, 2008)

I use ORS Replenish Pak and Shescentit Banana Brulee. Which both states Deep Conditioner and use with heat more than 10 minutes.

Very informative post.


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## The Princess (Nov 18, 2008)

So Deep Conditioners is where you get all your nuterients and the instant conditioners keep our hair in tact until the next deep conditioners? 

Sorry just trying to get it right.


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## Dymondz7 (Nov 18, 2008)

Here's the link to an thread that does a phenominal job of describing the difference between instant and deep conditioners. Apprantly there is a difference - at least according to this thread. Take a look:

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=108700


quote=mwedzi;5630889]Inspired by the "definition of protective style" thread, I'm curious to see what people mean when they say "deep conditioning". Is it just any conditioner left on for a long period of time? Any conditioner + heat? Or conditioner + your favorite goodies like honey, yogurt, etc. A special conditioner that specifically says for "deep conditioning" (and if you choose this option, can you please let me know exactly what ingredients make something a deep conditioner)?[/quote]


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## HoneyDew (Nov 18, 2008)

For me, it depends on the ingredients.

I know which ingredients are deep conditioning for my hair, and those that I like to exclude from my deep conditioners.

I use Matrix Biolage Conditioning Balm as my deep conditioner and it is so wonderful.  It is not labeled as a deep conditioner at all.  

I mean, we all know that product directions and suggested use is not the end all.  Look at Emergencee used the same way as Aphogee 2-step.  Look at how people can use food items for conditioning.  Look at all the products marketed for "white" hair - we use them like crazy.

I think sometimes we put too much in the hands of the manufacturer's of products.


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## me-T (Nov 18, 2008)

well, dang. i've been steaming w/ leave ins, so maybe if i get a real dc, it'll be better. *Qhemet! Make Me a DC!*


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## Noir (Nov 18, 2008)

HoneyDew said:


> I use Matrix Biolage Conditioning Balm as my deep conditioner and it is so wonderful.  It is not labeled as a deep conditioner at all.


The regular size 16oz tub doesn't state that it is a DC but the big tub (for $44 at Ulta) states that is is a DC


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## HoneyDew (Nov 18, 2008)

Noir said:


> The regular size 16oz tub doesn't state that it is a DC but the big tub (for $44 at Ulta) states that is is a DC



I did not know that.  I think that one is the 37 oz tub.  They are the same thing. See.  

So I guess I have been using a "deep" conditioner, after all.

And the fact that one container says deep and the other doesn't, shows exactly what I am talking about.  Sometimes we cannot take what tthe directions and claims too seriously on these conditioners - more attention needs to be placed on the ingredients. (just my opinion)


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## Artemis (Nov 28, 2008)

^^Exactly. Case in point: Paul Mitchell Super-Charged. The package use to suggest that you leave on for 15 min for deep conditioning, but now it doesn't (in the new packaging). However, it does say to use for weekly treatment. Anyway, it revitalized my hair, period. In hardly no time.

You really need to have an understanding of ingredients and which ones are capable of penetrating your hair for long-term use. My thoughts are that some of you are getting some results from instant conditioners, but if you used an actual dc, you'd see much quicker results 

If there was a sticky with just a a database of products under the appropriate categories, it would simple things up so much. Of course under the assumption that not everything works for every body, but a general _something_ to get people started so they are able to determine what's best for themselves.

Sistaslick's articles are really good for this, but not everyone on the board are familiar with her (newbies, etc).


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## gymfreak336 (Nov 28, 2008)

Artemis said:


> ^^Exactly. *Case in point: Paul Mitchell Super-Charged. The package use to suggest that you leave on for 15 min for deep conditioning, but now it doesn't (in the new packaging). *However, it does say to use for weekly treatment. Anyway, it revitalized my hair, period. In hardly no time.
> 
> You really need to have an understanding of ingredients and which ones are capable of penetrating your hair for long-term use. My thoughts are that some of you are getting some results from instant conditioners, but if you used an actual dc, you'd see much quicker results
> 
> ...




Kenra MC did that as did Nexxus Emergencee too.


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## Cichelle (Nov 28, 2008)

Don't stone me but...

I don't believe in deep conditioners. Okay, it's true I don't believe most of the claims manufacturers make about their hair products. But speaking of deep conditioners in particular, I've never derived any benefit from them that was much different than a "regular" conditioner. In some cases, I recall reading the ingredients of some supposed "deep" conditioners that looked suspiciously like the ingredient's of that same brand's "instant" conditioners. (Case in point: One of the conditioners mentioned in the article linked by Pokahontas mentions HE Replenishing Conditioner as a deep conditioner. I believe this is the one that used to be in the pink bottle...not sure they sell it anymore. But I know specifically about this one that the ingredients in it were VERY much like the other HE conditioners out at the time, with what I consider insignificant differences.) With very few exceptions, I have ended up spending a lot of money for sub par results. I'm seriously wondering, at this point, whether the benefits I used to see when I deep conditioned might have been more due to a placebo effect than anything else. 

Now, I have derived some benefit from things like henna, honey, yogurt, hot oil and etc. But I don't know if these things are considered "deep conditioners".

Listen, this is just *my* personal experience with *my* hair. I haven't tried every deep conditioner out there, so maybe I never got the right one. I don't deep condition at all at this point and haven't for a while now.


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## SparklingFlame (Nov 28, 2008)

Cichelle said:


> Don't stone me but...
> 
> I don't believe in deep conditioners. Okay, it's true I don't believe most of the claims manufacturers make about their hair products. But speaking of deep conditioners in particular, I've never derived any benefit from them that was much different than a "regular" conditioner. In some cases, I recall reading the ingredients of some supposed "deep" conditioners that looked suspiciously like the ingredient's of that same brand's "instant" conditioners. (Case in point: One of the conditioners mentioned in the article linked by Pokahontas mentions HE Replenishing Conditioner as a deep conditioner. I believe this is the one that used to be in the pink bottle...not sure they sell it anymore. But I know specifically about this one that the ingredients in it were VERY much like the other HE conditioners out at the time, with what I consider insignificant differences.) With very few exceptions, I have ended up spending a lot of money for sub par results. I'm seriously wondering, at this point, whether the benefits I used to see when I deep conditioned might have been more due to a placebo effect than anything else.
> 
> ...


I kind of agree with you.

Before I knew much about proper haircare I NEVER EVER EVER deep conditioned. NEVER. I cant recall my hair being brittle, hard, or breaking off either.


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## Artemis (Nov 28, 2008)

Ingredient lists can be tricky because you don't know how much of whatever ingredient is added to the product. I read somewhere (by Sistaslick) that just because the list is posted on the bottle in a certain order, doesn't mean the ingredients are concentrated in that same order. Look at Kenra MC, the ingredients are so simple...but that is a moisturizing DC that is a HG product for a lot of folks on this board.  There are products that simply formulated to last longer on the strands than others, and some that do so even better with heat. Because of this they provide a better benefit. To me, that is what a deep conditioner is. I'm not too worried about it, b/c I've found that ones that work for me, and I ain't switching . But in the end, trial and error for what is and isn't a deep conditioner is subjective (much like 99% of everything out there).


----------



## Artemis (Nov 28, 2008)

~StillALady~ said:


> I kind of agree with you.
> 
> Before I knew much about proper haircare I NEVER EVER EVER deep conditioned. NEVER. I cant recall my hair being brittle, hard, or breaking off either.



Consider yourself lucky! Not everyone is fortunate to have your hair type--and I sincerely mean that, considering all the experimentation you've done with your hair. Your hair is singing "I'm still here!" like Ashanti Mine would've been gone


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## ~CurlyNikki~ (Nov 28, 2008)

I think a DT is any conditioner (or conditioner ingredient combo, with honey, oils, etc.) left on for an extended period of time (30 minutes- overnight) used with or without heat.  

However, I believe that heat helps to open the shaft...and if I don't use my micro heat cap, I'll work out to generate some body heat.


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## jamaicalovely (Nov 29, 2008)

Great thread


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## lwilliams1922 (Nov 29, 2008)

ok, I'm scratching my head now??

Is Aubreys HSR a (good) DC?

I've never really had the time to DC and now that I'm about to start I want to make sure I use something that can help.

I'm looking for something without cones if anyone has any more suggestions.

thanks!


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## SparklingFlame (Nov 29, 2008)

Artemis said:


> Consider yourself lucky! Not everyone is fortunate to have your hair type--and I sincerely mean that, considering all the experimentation you've done with your hair. Your hair is singing "I'm still here!" like Ashanti Mine would've been gone




Youre right!!


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## baddison (Dec 1, 2008)

lwilliams1922 said:


> ok, I'm scratching my head now??
> 
> Is Aubreys HSR a (good) DC?
> 
> ...


 
ARE YOU KIDDING!!!!

Aubrey Orgaincs Honey Suckle Rose is DA BOM!!!!  I add jojoba oil, evcoconut oil, and sweet almond oil.  This conditioner is a MUST HAVE.  If I DC wit ANYTHING at all, this is it.  Even if I plan on using another conditioner, AO-HSR absolutely must be the starting base....all else gets mixed in.  I have found nothing so far that compares to the butter feeling I get once I rinse out HSR.

But as always....what's "gold" for one, my just be "tarnished brass" for someone else.  Give it a try and let us know your experience.


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## anniev2 (Dec 25, 2008)

so, im wondering....i have some lustrasilk shea butter cholesterol plus  on my hair now and i'm not sitting under the dryer.  your opinion, am i deep conditioning or not?


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## Cleve_gryl (Dec 26, 2008)

anniev2 said:


> so, im wondering....i have some lustrasilk shea butter cholesterol plus  on my hair now and i'm not sitting under the dryer.  your opinion, am i deep conditioning or not?


I'm doing this right now with AOHSR and coconut oil...I'm going to leave it on overnight.  I'm excited at how wonderful my hair will be in the morning


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## gissellr78 (Dec 26, 2008)

Pokahontas said:


> Check out this link that may help explain deep conditioners and there's also a list of common conditioners that can be used for deep conditioning.  http://motowngirl.com/content/Hair-Articles-Info/Deep-Conditioners-vs.-Reconstructors.html




Thanks for this link....My NTM is on the list....  I keep my conditioner for 15 mins or more....as long as it says deep penetrating or 15min or more i use it as a deep


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## gissellr78 (Dec 26, 2008)

Mis007 said:


> I would not classify the silicon Mix as a DC...more of an instant....read this on this forum...



I agree it says leave on 3 mins


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## SmilingElephant (Dec 26, 2008)

I use ORS Replenishing Deep Conditioner.......it is SO good!!


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## GoldenBreeze (Dec 27, 2008)

I voted "_A conditioner specifically formulated for "deep conditioning", and for me that means that the directions state, to use at least 15 mins with or w/o heat.  My hair seems to get the most benefit from these types of conditioners.  
_


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## blasianbeauty (Dec 28, 2008)

For me, deep conditioning is when it's left on my hair with a plastic cap for at least an hour or overnight.


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## Jaxhair (Dec 28, 2008)

I also voted, '_A conditioner specifically formulated for "deep conditioning'' '. _My understanding is purely simple_. _Moisture or protein. I almost always make my own, so my protein DC will have an egg in it, or it'll be henna. I always follow  up with a moisture DC which almost always has coconut milk/oil, honey, etc. 

Great thread - I'll go look for the PS version and learn a thing or two...


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## Patricia (Dec 28, 2008)

good thread


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## Jaxhair (Jan 30, 2009)

Subscribing as I didn't first time - D'oh! Love coming back to this sort of discussion for reference...


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## SLondonlady (Apr 10, 2009)

Hi ladies, 

This is a brilliant thread - subscribing!

x


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## ThePerfectScore (Apr 10, 2009)

isn't it the particle size i.e. the molecules size of the ingredients. Idk but when I researched I just heard if the bottle says leave on for 5 mins or more its a DC... I use Queen Helene Cholesterol with heat and it says 30 mins or so with a cap and heat....


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## IDareT'sHair (Apr 18, 2009)

I agree as well.  A Deep Conditioner is a product especially formulated in some way to penetrate the Hair Shaft and most of the time is recommended to use with "Heat"  I have found the AO Products as well as Jason's, Alter Ego, Banana Brulee (and others) can all be used as a Deep Penetrating Conditioner.  IMO, an Instant Conditioner and/or Oil left on hours or overnight, will give you the same benefits as one designed for deep penetration with heat.


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## 1Aleeesha (Apr 19, 2009)

This is a nice thread I'm too sleepy to "study it" tonight though... Somehow or another I "Just Know" which are deep conditioners and which are not.  I really don't know the book smarts behind it as to how I know... I just do.  If I'm trying a new deep conditioner I can just skim the label and decide on if I think it's a deep conditioner or not.  I'll name a few Deep conditioners for now...

Queen Helene's Cholesterol...Ex, If I left this on for less than an hour without heat it would penetrate nothing...  But when I leave it on overnight it softens my hair while it's still in it... And it's my favorite.  If going under the dryer with it naturally it would take less time... The results for me are the same when I leave a deep conditioner in over night as they would be when under the dryer for 20 mins or so... Stands the same for the Deep conditioners below...

So...Any Cholesterol conditioner... Ex. Lustrasilk With Olive oil

Any Mayonaise Conditioner... Ex. Vitale Hair Mayo...Even if you have to follow up with a moisturizing conditioner. With some you do some you don't because they act as a Protein and Moisturizing combo... Just depends on the brand with that one

Any Reconstructor... Ex. Joico K-Pak _Reconstructor..._Even if you have to follow up with a moisturizing conditioner. With some you do some you don't because they act as a Protein and Moisturizing combo... Just depends on the brand with that one... 

Other examples:

Motions CPR (Critical Protection & Repair)
Wella In-Depth _Deep Treatment
Silk Elements Mega Silk Olive Moisturizing Treatment
Profective Mega growth Deep Strengthening
Ion Moisturizing Treatment
Smooth N Shine Critical Treatment X-Treme Repair

Most of these can be found at Sally's... Without my knowing the book smarts behind it...I can say what they all have in common...

They mention common "fix-it" words as I will call them Ex. Treatment, Protection, Repair, Streghtening

They are all thick... And if not thick, they are not "Runny"







_


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## Aggie (Apr 19, 2009)

Subscribing to read fully later...


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## [email protected]@ (Apr 19, 2009)

What about the Aphogee 2 min keratin stuff? It says 2-5 mins but seems to penetrate deep. What do we consider this one?


----------



## Oasis (Apr 19, 2009)

Instant, deep, regular, whatever, it's all the same to my hair.

The first time I used ORS Replenishing Pak I was wowed but I guess that was fluke. That was the first and only time a DC actually worked for me.


----------



## Patricia (Apr 20, 2009)

keyawarren said:


> What about the Aphogee 2 min keratin stuff? It says 2-5 mins but seems to penetrate deep. What do we consider this one?


 Good question


----------



## bedazzled (Apr 25, 2009)

Here is my opinion.

You can turn an instant conditioner into a deep conditioner if you had some sort of humectant like honey or glycerin to it, and if you apply some sort of heat. No matter if you leave it on for 30 minutes or 10 hours..if theres nothing in the conditioner that is going to penetrate the hair shaft..the conditioner is just going to coat the hair. To me the whole deep conditioner argument is the same as Olive Oil Vs. Coconut Oil. Olive Oil can only penetrate up to 25% of the hair shaft, and Coconut Oil can penetrate up to 90% of the hair shaft. Olive oil will never penetrate up to even 50% of the hair shaft unless something else is added to it which can aid in penetration.



keyawarren said:


> What about the Aphogee 2 min keratin stuff? It says 2-5 mins but seems to penetrate deep. What do we consider this one?



I don't think protein needs long penetration times. Isn't it only binding to the hair shaft? All I know is if I left that Aphogee 2 min keratin stuff on my hair for more then 10 minutes I'm sure my hair would be jackeddddddd up!


----------



## vkb247 (Apr 27, 2009)

ThePerfectScore said:


> isn't it the particle size i.e. the molecules size of the ingredients. Idk but when I researched I just heard if the bottle says leave on for 5 mins or more its a DC... I use Queen Helene Cholesterol with heat and it says 30 mins or so with a cap and heat....


 


IDareT'sHair said:


> I agree as well. A Deep Conditioner is a product especially formulated in some way to penetrate the Hair Shaft and most of the time is recommended to use with "Heat" I have found the AO Products as well as Jason's, Alter Ego, Banana Brulee (and others) can all be used as a Deep Penetrating Conditioner. IMO, an Instant Conditioner and/or Oil left on hours or overnight, will give you the same benefits as one designed for deep penetration with heat.


 
I think that you ladies are exactly right. This thread was started a while ago and my views have definitely changed. As far as quats are concerned, setting lotion is almost only quats and it is definitely not a dc. Also in an articly by the curly hair scientist at NC she states that some quats can create build up like silicones do and that definitely doesn't sound like dcing. 

The more I learn about the science of hair I am more inclined to believe that there isn't a such thing as dcing or at least that it isn't anything like we think it is.


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## vkb247 (Apr 27, 2009)

*First step, what really happens when you condition your hair? If you use shampoo, then what you first do is remove excess oils and grease from your hair leaving you with a clean shaft. What DOES NOT happen is 'opening of the cuticle'. I thought I should draw some of this out, just incase people's eyes start glazing over.







What can open up the cuticle? Commonly, chemical processing of hair such as relaxing or colour rely on alkaline products and these CAN open up the cuticle. Your average shampoo does not have the ability to do this. They are mostly mildly acidic to neutral (around pH 6-7 though 8 is considered ok) because cosmetic scientists need to consider that the shampoo can end up in your eyes, face and mouth, so it is safer to be close to neutral. See this site for some pH ranges of shampoo. Lisa Akbari also advertises a shampoo at pH 5. The pH of hair and skin is a range between 4.5 to 5.5.

Therefore, if your hair is natural, you most likely have a closed cuticle as has been seen scientifically (Khumalo et al, Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology, 2000, pp 814-820). 

This leads to the question, if the cuticle is closed then what can really get in? Well two things can, water and some oils.






What kind of oil can get into the hair cortex? The complex answer is many different oils to varying degrees. The simple answer is coconut oil and olive oil have been shown to penetrate hair quite well (Hornby et al, Int Journal of cosmetic science 2005 pg299-300). 


This now leaves the question, what exactly is the purpose of conditioner? Well most conditioners do just work on the outside. They soften the hair, help smooth the cuticle, minimize static, sometimes help the water stay in the cortex. When rinsed off they do leave some conditioning agents behind which keep the hair feeling soft.  






So why do so many people say that deep conditioning is good? Well maybe they just have a better procedure and can get more out of it. 

1. Make sure you have sufficient water, make sure you wet your hair properly and make sure your chosen conditioner has coconut oil or olive oil. If it doesn't, consider adding a teaspoon or so to it (portion out the part you are going to use and add the oil to that, do not put it into the main container). 

2. Concentrate on applying the conditioner very well so as to cover your all your hair. Don't plop the conditioner onto the middle of your head, back and sides. Take your time, part the hair and apply to small sections. 

3. Do you need heat? It takes 15 min for hair to get saturated in pure water while steam takes 18 hours or more (Robbins, Chemical and Physical Behaviour of Human Hair, Springer). Water directly on your hair through wetting is probably more useful than steam or vapour. 

4. Should you leave it on for longer? Well you can do so if you want to, but if you leave it just for the stipulated time, then you don't need to worry too much. 

So is deep conditioning a myth, what do you think? *

http://thenaturalhaven.blogspot.com/2009/03/monday-myths-can-you-really-deep.html - great blog if you haven't checked it out already


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## Patricia (Apr 27, 2009)

vkb247 said:


> *First step, what really happens when you condition your hair? If you use shampoo, then what you first do is remove excess oils and grease from your hair leaving you with a clean shaft. What DOES NOT happen is 'opening of the cuticle'. I thought I should draw some of this out, just incase people's eyes start glazing over.*
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Glad I subscribed! Thanks for this


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## Skent (May 4, 2009)

This was an interesting and informative thread. I've been DCing my hair since I've started my hair journey and I definitely notice a difference. I usually pre-poo with Ovation cell therapy and wash with giovanni smooth as silk moisturizing shampoo and conditioner. I leave the conditioner on and sometimes get under the dryer or just put a towel on. My hair has never felt so moisturized, healthy and fabulous. As I was reading this post I thought I might try some of the deep conditioners that were recommended but I think that's the band wagon PJ coming out in me. I think what works for your hair doesn't mean it will works for others, and if something is working, why change it?


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## Chevelure618 (May 21, 2009)

It has to have some type of protein in order to bond to the internal structure of the hair since hair is made up of almost 100% keratin protein


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## Melissa-jane (Jul 3, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> To me Deep Condition means
> 
> 1. The product advises to be used for longer than 5 or so minutes. More like 10-20.
> 
> ...



I have been wondering about this for a while....some sites say a dc is an hour but I don't see that instruction on the back of the bottle. I don't always use heat either as my baby hates the noise.


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## *Muffin* (Jul 3, 2009)

My definition of a deep conditioner is something that enhances your hair's ability to keep moisturized and stay elastic, helps repair damage that may have been inflicted to the strand, increases manageability, and strengthens hair so it's less prone to being damage and breaking.  It has to restore, repair, protect, and strengthen.  Wouldn't kill it to be nutrient-rich either so that it can encourage healthy hair growth..   I know, I'm very demanding .


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## msa (Jul 3, 2009)

IMO, in order to deep condition a product has to have ingredients that penetrate the hair strand and provide long lasting benefits (ie moisture or strengthening). In my case, the moisture should last for at least a couple of days.


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## msa (Aug 16, 2009)

Since this thread talks a lot about quats in conditioning, here is a great article from the Curl Chemist on which polyquat is the best for conditioning. The article says polyquat-44 is the best because it will give the conditioning you need without the buildup of other polyquats. Here's a quote:


> The take-home message of this article is that products containing polyquat-44 will give you the best results compared to those formulated with other types of cationic polymers. It provides fantastic detangling and moisturizing benefits and detaches from the surface of the hair easily.



CurlChemistolyquats as Conditioning Agents


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## anon123 (Aug 17, 2009)

msa said:


> Since this thread talks a lot about quats in conditioning, here is a great article from the Curl Chemist on which polyquat is the best for conditioning. The article says polyquat-44 is the best because it will give the conditioning you need without the buildup of other polyquats. Here's a quote:
> 
> 
> CurlChemistolyquats as Conditioning Agents



My Aveda DR is the only deep conditioner I have that has a polyquat in it.  It's polyquaternium-10.  Maybe that's why I notice a difference between it and the others.  Now I can look for deep conditioners that have polyquats that don't cost $26/bottle.

I'm not that worried about build-up because, from the article, the worry is greatest for people who don't use sulfates.  I generally use a sulfate shampoo once a month or so.


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## SouthernStunner (Sep 19, 2009)

I wish this could become a sticky.  I am so tired of some of the ladies saying they dc with Vo5 or Suave or some nonsense like that.  Those are instant condistioners no matter how long you leave it in it still isnt a dc.

Lawd I am so tired of saying this but I am afraid that when I correct someone they will take it the wrong way.  You know some of the ladies here can not take critisim.

Now back to your orginally broadcasted station.


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## msa (Sep 21, 2009)

Some extra information about conditioning from Dr. Ali Syed's blog. He explains conditioning from a chemists point of view.

The right way to condition:

part 1

part 2

part 3

part 4


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## KhandiB (Sep 28, 2009)

I can tell the difference between DC's and Instants.  
Just noticed in the past week.

I put Organics Hair mayo on my head with a cap for like 45 minutes with heat, super slip, soft supple moisturized hair.

Had a Concoction of some EVOO and some Instants, and tried the same thing.  Nope, lol. No slip, just felt , well, not conditioned.  LOL

my fave DC's are Motions Moisture Plus, Organics Hair Mayo ...


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## Daughter (Oct 11, 2009)

Dang dang dang.

Can I say just how ignorant I've been about deep conditioning? I used to leave the stuff on my hair under a plastic bag for 10 mins rinse it out and call it a day  But I did read the label on another jar which said 30 mins and I stuck to that 

Now I'm off to check the label on my ORS Mayo... I used to use LeKair Cholesterol back in the day, is that a deep conditioner, I can't remember?


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## Hysi (Oct 13, 2009)

this is an interesting thread! so what i wanna know is which is better, heat under the dryer or under the steamer? i use my steamer for deep condish. should i be under my pibbs??? i know the heat sources are different so would the steamer allow the dc to penetrate better than dry heat?


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## DaDragonPrincess (Oct 13, 2009)

How I DC- I may use Nairobi or Motions to DC, ounce a month I use Paul Mitchell Tea Tree Special shampoo and conditioner.  I seal my conditioner with a oil such as coconut oil,olive oil,or whatever I grab. Pop on a plastic cap,and let sit for 1 to 3 hours. Treatments such as Motions CPR or Aphogee I get under the dryer,sometimes I do that with my DC's too.
​


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## Stacy TheLady (Oct 13, 2009)

Personally, once for my DC, whether dry or wet hair DC, i add my moisturizer double up my shower cap and wrap a towel over that. Keep it in for no less than an hour. I usually add pure coconut cream and/or EVOO and EVCO. thats it for me.


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## Curlyt78 (Oct 13, 2009)

For deep conditioning I think of phrase as getting whatever you need "deep" within the hair shaft by using heat.  
Some people may need to just deep condition with protien others may need a combination of protein and moisture.  Deep conditioning should be based on what your hair needs at that time and getting that products or treatment deep into the hair shaft.


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## Kimiche (Nov 16, 2009)

Does anyone use Elucence Moisture Balance as a deep conditioner? :scratchch


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## lydc (Nov 16, 2009)

Kimiche said:


> Does anyone use Elucence Moisture Balance as a deep conditioner? :scratchch


 
I do. I mix it with honey and an oil but I'm thinking of substituting the oil for a butter. It works well for me.


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## 3akay3 (Nov 19, 2009)

I was wondering why I wasn't getting slip from my dc's.  I read this thread and realized I'm using cheapie conditioners.  Hit up WalMart today and grabbed a bottle of ORS replenishing conditioner (love that it's in a bottle now) and dc'ed my hair.  SLIP!!! I get it now


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## Americka (Nov 29, 2009)

Bumping for those in need...


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## LadyRaider (Nov 29, 2009)

The Girl said:


> See I use DFina D and Silicon Mix they don't say 10 minutes but I do leave them on that long or longer...hmm and I use heat sometimes.  i don't know if I like the way it feels after heat though.  I will be watching this thread, school me ladies.



I read on the beauty brains that few actual ingredients can indeed penetrate the hair shaft. One of the exceptions was cetrimonium chloride. It's an ingredient in Silicon Mix. According to the beauty brains site, that ingredient, when used with heat can actually penetrate the hair shaft and make it stronger.

So as of right now, I know that Silicon Mix works as a deep conditioner when used with heat. I am not certain of any others.


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## Ms Kain (Dec 1, 2009)

disgtgyal said:


> ahh man so by definition that means my biolage conditioning balm isn't a deep conditioner, and i've been using just that for 3wks omg  i guess i have to go back to humecto gosh and i was so loving the soft silky results of the condtioning balm


 
erplexed But wait....how does your hair feel after say....2 days? Does it feel good like it's moisturized or at least balanced or is it rough? Is there any shedding or can you run your comb through it with very little hair loss?

I've never used Biolage Conditioning balm as a deep conditioner but I would think that if you've been using it as a deep conditioner for 3 wks and you don't have any complaints then why not stick with it? It just means that it works for _you_, you know? 

On the other hand if you were already getting the shedding, the lackluster sheen, the hard feel to it or you just have a bad feeling about it then it makes sense to change......

I unno.....I hope you don't take it like I'm getting on my soapbox but what one person does with their hair may not work but if you've been fortunate to find that it works for you, then I'd run with it! sometimes I think that old folks have it right when they say," If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


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## Esq.2B (Dec 1, 2009)

This response was in the comments section of that article MSA posted. The Dr. stated that Keracare Humecto isn't a deep conditioner.  Really?

 Dr. Ali Syed replied to comment from Artemis | June 12, 2009 1:08 AM | Reply 
_*You mentioned that your hair is fine and it becomes limp/unmanageable upon over- moisturization. The KeraCare Humecto is not a deep penetrating moisturization product; it should be be used more as a frequent-use conditioning product. 

For deep penetration, we recommend KC Intensive Restorative Masque and/or the KC Super Reconstructor for damaged hair.*_
It is still good to use the KC Humecto Cream Conditioner as a regular conditioner for your fine hair, and if your hair is damaged, then you can use KC Intensive Restorative Masque every 2 to 4 weeks.

Let me know if you need more information.


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## Lucia (Dec 1, 2009)

gorgeoushair said:


> Do you really want a list?
> 
> Some I have used or using:
> Motions CPR Conditioning Treatment
> ...



thanks, any more DC's?


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## betty-boo (Dec 2, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> You can't really tell just by the label since it depends on how the lab cut and sliced the protein. Generally though, any deep pentrating product has proteins of a smaller molecular size to help get through. Then there are lines like joico that make small molecular size one of their selling points.
> 
> To me, the real way I tell the difference in deep and regular conditioners is my hairs health over time. When I use deep conditioners on a regular basis, my hair help shows visble improvement. Regular conditioners imo just maintain things. This is why some people slack off with deep conditioning and don't really see any major harm done. They have built their baseline up and at that point, they are just maintaining it.


 
This is really good to know. Gymfreak, I was thinking that I had to use heat with Joico in order to deep condition.
From what you said above, it seems as though you may not need to use heat with Joico to deep condition, as it would penetrate your hair because of the small molecular protein size.

I'm finding using Joico with heat, too intense and my hair feels almost 'over-proteined'. But I don't know - I'm going to feel strange, not using heat to deep condition - as if I'm not giving my hair an adequate DC - am I ready for this new concept????
Especially as I wash only once a week. What do you think?
That completely changes my idea of what it means to DC.

I'm loving this thread! Thanks OP!


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## TheCoilWhisperer (Dec 2, 2009)

AWESOME THREAD!!!


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## amwcah (Dec 16, 2009)

I finally got my answer after being on this board for 3 years!  Great thread!!!


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## vainღ♥♡jane (Dec 17, 2009)

great thread. i just spent 40 minutes reading it .hopefully this will help me find a good dc. ♥


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## maxineshaw (Dec 17, 2009)

I don't even know if I believe that deep conditioning is real.


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## My Friend (Mar 16, 2010)

*Subscribing*


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## esi.adokowa (Mar 17, 2010)

great thread.
& my dc is actually on the list


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## browneyes32 (Mar 17, 2010)

Hysi said:


> this is an interesting thread! so what i wanna know is which is better, heat under the dryer or under the steamer? i use my steamer for deep condish. should i be under my pibbs??? i know the heat sources are different so would the steamer allow the dc to penetrate better than dry heat?


 
I also would like to know the answer to this question please.  Steamer or dryer for best deep conditioning?


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## drappedup (Mar 18, 2010)

I voted for option 4. That's what I try to go by until I feel I can fully know by reading ingredients and such.


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## g.lo (Mar 18, 2010)

hi all, this is a fantastic thread, but i have to admit that in a way i am now a bit confused
can someone help me with this please!

i use joico moisture recovery balm to deep condition ( just about to finish) and yesterday i did order aubrey organics J.A.Y (conditioner) and GPB to replace my joico.
can somebody let me know if those 3 are deep conditioner or just normal conditioner? and also can they be used to cowash as well?

thanks for helping


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## JudithO (Jan 30, 2012)

~~Bumping~~ 

Over a year later... has our impression of DC's changed? I have never found anything to work for me.. I was just about to invest in some Jessicurl WDT but reading this thread... maybe not... Are any more actual DC's working for people?


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## Cherokee-n-Black (Jan 30, 2012)

judy4all said:


> ~~Bumping~~
> 
> Over a year later... has our impression of DC's changed? I have never found anything to work for me.. I was just about to invest in some Jessicurl WDT but reading this thread... maybe not... Are any more actual DC's working for people?




I've been having trouble finding a DC for my natural hair.  I'm going to try Curls Hair Tea.  It did a fantastic job when I was transitioning, but I don't know about now. This thread is gon' have me combing the interwebz once again.


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## JessieLeleB (Jan 30, 2012)

I could never really tell if any deep conditioner worked better, it was all about the leave in moisturizer for the softness and non-breakage. I'm newly natural and it's hard to tell at this point. I cowash once a week with cheapie and deep condition once a week with conditioner labeled DC and honestly if feels the same I must do some more research on this.


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## Vshanell (Jan 31, 2012)

JessieLeleB said:
			
		

> I could never really tell if any deep conditioner worked better, it was all about the leave in moisturizer for the softness and non-breakage. I'm newly natural and it's hard to tell at this point. I cowash once a week with cheapie and deep condition once a week with conditioner labeled DC and honestly if feels the same I must do some more research on this.



It feels the same to me too, no matter the dc. I'm just banking on the fact that the dc penetrates the hair strand so our hair is getting moisture on the inside and we can't really notice a difference on the outside. 

Leave ins and moisturizers make the outside of our hair feel good and dc's benefits are on the inside. This is just my theory.

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## JudithO (Jan 31, 2012)

Im just going to go with whatver feels best on my hair. DC or not. There seems to be some benefit to leaving a water based conditioner in the hair for extended periods of time (1 hr +)  so i'll just take any conditioner I like, leave it for a while and call it a day.


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