# Sex and the Christian Single



## ebonylocs (Jul 30, 2009)

As a non-Christian, some of the recent posts by Christians in OT and this forum have piqued my interest. 

Maybe because I grew up in a country that tends to view and enact Christianity very conservatively, my image is that anyone professing to be a "Christian" would be expected to remain chaste in thought, word and deed until marriage. So thinking of or calling someone as "sexy" would be out of the question, so would any kind of sexual interaction (words, touching) with someone not your husband.

So what exactly is allowed? Where are the lines drawn? What makes the forbidden forbidden? Is it the absence of sanctification by God?   Is it the element of lust / objectification - (and if so, would that mean that some types of sexual behaviour are prohibited even after marriage)? 

Please respond to the poll, and your thoughtful, honest answers would be appreciated.


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## Shimmie (Jul 30, 2009)

_"Promise me, O women of Jerusalem, not to awaken love until the time is right."    Song of Solomon 8:4...._

 Whatever 'awakens' one's love is where they should draw the line. 

Meaning that whatever opens them up to seaxual desires or evven sexual fantasies (thoughts) which lead to desire, should be avoided.   

Some may say that holding hands is innocent...Is it really?   

Some may say, light 'kissing' is harmless.     Not for most men and women take it to fantasy land. 

Some may say, a light embrace is just that, an embrace.     Not for a man.   Almost always, he'll want to 'pull you in' closer.     

And almost always, we'll let him if we're in love with him and we are 'alone'.   

I'm telling you straight up there are no 'easy' answers to this.    It's not easy, especially when a man and woman are truly in love with each other.  As long as we are in this flesh and blood body, we have to avoid that which makes us tempted. 

Men are extremely hard to resist; especially if it's a man that you are in love with.   Wanting to be with him is as natural as breathing.   So no matter how 'innocent' something may seem (such as holding hands or light embraces), we have to guard ourselves if it will lead into going all the way, let alone thinking about it.  

Therefore, 

_"Promise me, O women of Jerusalem, not to awaken love until the time is right."_


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## Shimmie (Jul 30, 2009)

I was looking at your poll questions and I honestly could not 'vote' for any of them.   I dunno.... the first two seem quite innocent and I have to admit I've 'been there' but, one still has to 'proceed with caution', because depending on the 'mood' one may be in......... Well, no explanation needed.  

Here's your poll:

*An unmarried Christian couple is allowed to (please choose all options that apply):*

Hold hands and hug chastely
Kiss chastely (brush of lips)

*Definitely none of this listed below!* 


*Definite No's*

Flirt sexually (in face-to-face, phone, text, and email conversations)

French kiss (with tongue)

Lie on a horizontal surface together, intertwined, and CLOTHED

Make out" or fondle each others' private parts

Lie on a horizontal surface, intertwined and UNCLOTHED

Have oral sex    

Have penetrative sex    

-----------------
Even a non-Christian such as yourself should not be doing so.  Why allow someone else other than your husband, handle the merchandise?    

Even when I buy new clothing, I wash before I wear them.  Why?  Because they've been handled by numerous other shoppers with dirty hands while on the rack.

Question:   Are you asking these questions out of sincerity, or are you just sincerely trying to make 'mockery' of those who choose to live a modest life.   

In this day and age, I would not dare 'brag' about being 'free' to have sex or have a thought that those who abstain are living a life in bondage. 

Abstinence means 'smart'.   The disease rates are astronomically alarming and spreading like the floods of Katrina.    And why is that?  Because of fools who didn't and still do not respect the gift of Virtue.  

They are fools who do not respect their own bodies or their lives.   There's no cherished protection over the beauty and true meaning of sex and the reaon that it is imperitive to be exclusive and in a committed marriage relationship.     

Christians  and non-Christians who abstain from pre-marital sex and are also faithful in their marriage, are those that we should be learning from, which is to value life and the quality of it.  

It's nothing to mock about.


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## BeautifulFlower (Jul 30, 2009)

The bible says it is good for a man not to touch a woman and oh how right they are....

"Love" is awakened very easily, its best not to touch each other at all. Especially, if your really attracted to the person. Caring for someone makes it feel impossible not to want to love them up. 

Sigh...I need to go pray.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 30, 2009)

lol i love u


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 30, 2009)

this poll is a bit personal??? lol be careful with ur answers ladies I'm nervous for EVERYONE lol 
subscribing... can't wait... 
Christian forum is like... Jerry Springer lol


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## BeautifulFlower (Jul 30, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> this poll is a bit personal??? lol be careful with ur answers ladies I'm nervous for EVERYONE lol
> subscribing... can't wait...
> *Christian forum is like... Jerry Springer* lol


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## BeautifulFlower (Jul 30, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> lol i love u


 

I've been good. Lord, knows my struggle.


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## Shimmie (Jul 30, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> this poll is a bit personal??? lol be careful with ur answers ladies I'm nervous for EVERYONE lol
> subscribing... can't wait...
> *Christian forum is like... Jerry Springer* lol


 You need to 'retract' this statement.  It's out of order.


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## BeautifulFlower (Jul 30, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> You need to 'retract' this statement. It's out of order.


 
You're right, Shimmie. 

There may be drama here but no where near JS. Nisha...I dont think its that hardcore.


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## jasmineleann (Jul 30, 2009)

There's a great book that I am reading right now titled "Single, Saved, and Having Sex" by Ty Adams. As a Christian, I myself am stuck with unaswered questions sometimes because in this age and time, having pre-marital sex and being a Christian is very common. This book anwers all questions, and I am left with no more doubts.


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## Poohbear (Jul 30, 2009)

jasmineleann said:


> There's a great book that I am reading right now titled "Single, Saved, and Having Sex" by Ty Adams. As a Christian, I myself am stuck with unaswered questions sometimes because in this age and time, having pre-marital sex and being a Christian is very common. This book anwers all questions, and I am left with no more doubts.


 Can you share with us some of the answers you have received from reading this book?


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## ebonylocs (Jul 30, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I was looking at your poll questions and I honestly could not 'vote' for any of them.   I dunno.... the first two seem quite innocent and I have to admit I've 'been there' but, one still has to 'proceed with caution', because depending on the 'mood' one may be in......... Well, no explanation needed.


Yes, I know. When I started to review the poll results, I thought "Doggone it! I forgot to put "None of the above". It's always like that with polls - always forget something.




> Question:   Are you asking these questions out of sincerity, or are you just sincerely trying to make 'mockery' of those who choose to live a modest life:


Sigh. I was hoping to avoid this kind of thing, that's why I put "your honest, thoughtful, answers would be appreciated". 

I'm really not interested in the popcorn eating,  drama seeking, "hardy-har-haring." I just want people to say what they believe, and why - whether it's scriptural authority, church teachings, personal discretion, etc. So your first response was really appreciated.

I put all options there just to cover all bases, and because, Who knows?, there might be some people who think that Christian morality does not circumscribe sex at all. But really, what confuses me is the grey areas - talking about men, touching, kissing, flirting, hugging, pressing up against each other, etc.

BTW: I've been celibate for 4 years, and don't make free with anything of mine. But even if I did make free, it is definitely not in my nature to mock *anyone's* choice to live by a strict moral code.


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## ebonylocs (Jul 30, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> this poll is a bit personal??? lol be careful with ur answers ladies I'm nervous for EVERYONE lol
> subscribing... can't wait...


The poll choices are private.


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## ♥Lamaravilla♥ (Jul 30, 2009)

jasmineleann said:


> There's a great book that I am reading right now titled "Single, Saved, and Having Sex" by Ty Adams. As a Christian, I myself am stuck with unaswered questions sometimes because in this age and time, having pre-marital sex and being a Christian is very common. This book anwers all questions, and I am left with no more doubts.




Another really good one (at least in my opinion) is 'No More Sheets: The Truth About Sex' by Juanita Bynum  I highly recommend this book.


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## Poohbear (Jul 30, 2009)

ebonylocs said:


> Yes, I know. When I started to review the poll results, I was thought "Doggone it! I forgot to put "None of the above". It's always like that with polls - always forget something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I feel you ebonylocs.  I believe that sexual intercourse (genital penetration and oral sex) outside of marriage is a sin against God, but I often wonder about the grey areas of touching, kissing, hugging, and flirting among unmarried couples as well.  I believe these "grey areas" would be considered lust (craving for sexual intercourse) which is a sin as well. So like Shimmie said, none of these would be considered "okay" when it comes to living a Christian life to glorify God as an unmarried person.


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## ebonylocs (Jul 30, 2009)

jasmineleann said:


> There's a great book that I am reading right now titled "Single, Saved, and Having Sex" by Ty Adams. As a Christian, I myself am stuck with unaswered questions sometimes because in this age and time, having pre-marital sex and being a Christian is very common. This book anwers all questions, and I am left with no more doubts.





Poohbear said:


> Can you share with us some of the answers you have received from reading this book?


I would like to know too.



lamaravilla said:


> Another really good one (at least in my opinion) is 'No More Sheets: The Truth About Sex' by Juanita Bynum  I highly recommend this book.


Care to summarise it's teachings?


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## jasmineleann (Jul 30, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> Can you share with us some of the answers you have received from reading this book?


 
Ty Adams explains how anything other than holding hands and a peck is wrong when you are engaging in these activities before marriage. Even thinking about lustful acts, and not phycially acting out on them is wrong. In scripture it says;

Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)
28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 

Also she was explaining how even when married oral and anal sex, even fondling each other, and masturbation is not to be allowed because you are un-fruitful. Yes, God gave us sex to enjoy with our partners in marriage, but also to have children. 

The book gets way deeper than this, and I am still reading it. Now, some of the things I was reading, I was shocked to find out too, and Lord knows that temptation is always out there lurking, but I do agree with most of the things she is writing about.


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## Shimmie (Jul 30, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> You're right, Shimmie.
> 
> There may be drama here but no where near JS. Nisha...I dont think its that hardcore.


 
I'm this close.... this close to saying something that's been long overdue to this girl's comments about this Forum and the sincerity of the people on it.   

This close ! ! !


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## BeautifulFlower (Jul 30, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm this close.... this close to saying something that's been long overdue to this girl's comments about this Forum and the sincerity of the people on it.
> 
> This close ! ! !


 
I understand your passion for the forum. She's new here and I've known her for many years. Her sense of humor is quite eccentric but she doesnt mean to offend.

Jerry Springer is more than drama. It has no limits. We may have a fair share of cat fights but not Jerry status. I dont even believe that show anymore. They MUST stage that stuff.


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## aribell (Jul 30, 2009)

As far as individuals posting about their experiences goes, I think we have to remember that even if a person is celibate now, that doesn't mean they always were.  So if someone writes in OT as if they know what sex is like, it doesn't necessarily mean that they approve of sex outside of marriage, just that they've been there before.  

Personally, I think that until marriage anything sexual is out of order, sexual as in pertaining to and leading up to sex.  I don't think that all physical affection is foreplay, though.  Kissing is ok with me.  Tongue, probably not.


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## ebonylocs (Jul 30, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> _"Promise me, O women of Jerusalem, not to awaken love until the time is right."    Song of Solomon 8:4...._
> 
> Whatever 'awakens' one's love is where they should draw the line.
> 
> ...


OK, Shimmie. To go back to your initial response. (And those women who have already courted and married can pls chip in as well):

How do you (referring to the man as well) make your interest in someone known, without it being somehow "sexual"? (Because after all, sex is what occurs between a man and a woman once they are united). Without *any* form of sexual interaction, how do you get to the stage of loving someone "like that", or does that come after marriage? If flirting or physical closeness is not allowed, where does the "tingle" and the spark come from that says "This is the one"? Or is that purely a rational, spirtual decision? I would think that to marry someone, you'd have to feel bonded to them emotionally, spiritually, and physically as well. Or do you take care of the emotional and spiritual pre-marriage, and then feel secure that the physical will take care of itself after marriage?

I'm trying to articulate my question here, don't know if I'm succeeding. But if you understand, pls answer.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 30, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm this close.... this close to saying something that's been long overdue to this girl's comments about this Forum and the sincerity of the people on it.
> 
> This close ! ! !



What u gotta say boo let me know...
u paid $6.50 too so if u wanna talk u should
If I don't believe/ conduct myself similarly to what you guys do or think thats my right... even in a "Christian forum"
and if I feel like makin a joke thats my right too...
honestly, I have been really helped and encouraged by a lot of responses in here... including yours about the herbs that one time
and people have written me and said that my questions help as well as my sense of humor...
i don't take things very seriously, I'm not gonna tell you what to do or whatever, cuz this isn't work and you're not one of my employees...
for the sake of online peace, please speak your mind if u want cuz you are entitled to your opinion, and I wont be hurt...
in fact send me a pm if you really wanna destroy me... 
I'm not gonna change the way I post and ask questions though, thats my right... Sorry.
And this isn't to be rude either... I just kinda cut to the chase, my sistas
like she said... im a bit eccentric, but Jesus loves me thats whats important...


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 30, 2009)

lamaravilla said:


> Another really good one (at least in my opinion) is 'No More Sheets: The Truth About Sex' by Juanita Bynum  I highly recommend this book.



i wouldn't read anything by her after that craziness with her husband... I think I may look that book up since u suggested it to see whats going on in that head of hers cuz her sermons seem a bit money hungry...  I prefer Michelle McKinney Hammond I have heard her live like 4 times and read 2 of her books she is amazing on sex n stuff... i cry all the time from her lol


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## Shimmie (Jul 30, 2009)

ebonylocs said:


> OK, Shimmie. To go back to your initial response. (And those women who have already courted and married can pls chip in as well):
> 
> How do you (referring to the man as well) make your interest in someone known, without it being somehow "sexual"? (Because after all, sex is what occurs between a man and a woman once they are united).
> 
> ...



My Sweetheart and I don't need to touch each other for that tingle and spark....   Trust me, he sparks and tingles just hearing my voice or just thinking about me.   The most treasured gift we have is being able to 'KNOW' that we truly love each other without mixing up the emotions that go with making love.    

It's there and when it's there --- it's just there and it's not invisable.  We 'allowed' it to be there by focusing on who we as individuals, our faith and by sharing so many other aspects of our lives which only continue to draw us closer to one another.  He 'KNOWS' without touching me (sexually) that he is fully attracted to me as a woman.  And I too 'KNOW' this about him as a man; and we both leave right there!  

Having sex isn't the proof of having loving feelings for someone.  It's not 'Rocket Science' to be aware of your feelings for someone without having sex with them.  Being Christian doesn't mean we are robots.  If nothing more, we as Christians love all the more and we cherish all the more every aspect of love, spirit, soul and body.  I'd rather have these elements of a relationship in tack before committing to marriage and making love.  

Do you know what it means to man and woman who have 'chosen' to wait until marriage?  To know that there has been no other person who has meant that much to each other.  'We' choose not to have sex before marriage and therefore cherish each moment of living with that decision. 

A lot of folks these days (in all walks of life) are touching and leaving.  It's a 'Touch Phone' mentality with people, touching (scrolling) through one menu after another who can't figure what they really want.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 30, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> I feel you ebonylocs.  I believe that sexual intercourse (genital penetration and oral sex) outside of marriage is a sin against God, but I often wonder about the grey areas of touching, kissing, hugging, and flirting among unmarried couples as well.  I believe these "grey areas" would be considered lust (craving for sexual intercourse) which is a sin as well. So like Shimmie said, none of these would be considered "okay" when it comes to living a Christian life to glorify God as an unmarried person.




Isn't it the truth, not only for christians but for Muslims, Hindus, Ba'hais and Traditional Jews etc.  I like to think of it this way, when in the company of the one you want to marry, imagine this alive and standing right beside you looking on.....















"Now, you know better!!!"


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 30, 2009)

sex before marriage is lame and overrated...
i forgot to post my opinion cuz I was too busy defending myself... agh
but anyways, everyone I know who is a Christian and lost the V card before and then got married says Married sex is way better
I can't wait...
I'm not gonna lie though I love to cuddle... and if you've made a commitment not to have sex then I think it is fine to be intimate... I think that this even makes it easier to abstain
i realized at the end of the day this is really what I look for from SO... and when ur dating if a guy can't hug you without gettin a boner for an extended amount of time you guys either have an intense attraction or he has a problem LOL
no just kidding but I really think its up to the couple... different ppl have different weaknesses...
ps... Jerry Springer joke was funny... I'm still laughing lol I think God wants us to smile every now and then


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 30, 2009)

ebonylocs said:


> OK, Shimmie. To go back to your initial response. (And those women who have already courted and married can pls chip in as well):
> 
> *How do you (referring to the man as well) make your interest in someone known, without it being somehow "sexual"? *(Because after all, sex is what occurs between a man and a woman once they are united). Without *any* form of sexual interaction, how do you get to the stage of loving someone "like that", or does that come after marriage? If flirting or physical closeness is not allowed, *where does the "tingle" and the spark come from that says "This is the one"? Or is that purely a rational, spirtual decision?* I would think that to marry someone, you'd have to feel bonded to them emotionally, spiritually, and physically as well. Or do you take care of the emotional and spiritual pre-marriage, and then feel secure that the physical will take care of itself after marriage?
> 
> I'm trying to articulate my question here, don't know if I'm succeeding. But if you understand, pls answer.



I'm not Shimmie but I'll take a shot at this.  Through the mind.  Even in marriage, the best sex starts in the mind.  There's nothing more "sexy" than a spiritual man who loves G-d first and loves and respects you second (his mother 3rd lol) and is intelligent and well-balanced.  Physical sex is important but connecting through the mind and heart is worth much more.  The key is communication.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 30, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> "Now, you know better!!!"



Lol i love your posts that was really funny I'm gonna start imagining that pic next to me all the time now LOL


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 30, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I'm not Shimmie but I'll take a shot at this.  Through the mind.  Even in marriage, the best sex starts in the mind.  There's nothing more "sexy" than a spiritual man who loves G-d first and loves and respects you second (his mother 3rd lol) and is intelligent and well-balanced.  Physical sex is important but connecting through the mind and heart is worth much more.  The key is communication.



I love this... sex feels so good but that mental connect is amazing... I think thats part of God's gift too... cuz it feels AMAZING when you have that


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 31, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I'm not Shimmie but I'll take a shot at this.



just wanted comment, you're not that lovely lady, but you're a human on earth just like she is... and I love your responses... Nobody is perfect either keep that in mind... You're very insightful, she is as well... Thank you!


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## Aviah (Jul 31, 2009)

As you get closer to God, the less likely you are to ignore what the scripture says on sex before marriage, the more you spend time with God the more you understand and start to see things his way, and become more sensitive to things that may lead the wrong may IMO. I don't know about kissing being a sin or anything, but it does have something to do with personal boundaries. A lot of books and generalized advice tell everyone not to kiss or hold too long, but for some people it really "doesn't do anything for them" different things get to different people, some may find a peck on the lips or a hand on the back too hot and heavy and some will find may not find anything enticing about it. Things like being naked intertwined, fondling, all that I really do not agree with, like Shimmie said, but I do understand in some areas its about being sensitive to the Spirit and being real with yourself about "what gets the car started for either party" I know some couples who do not even peck piss and others  who tongue kiss and see nothing wrong. While I personally would not say tongue kissing is fine, it is about your conviction, sensitivity to God, and obeying reasonable limits (I am really not trying to say that you can so anything as long as you don't feel "guilty").
HTH

ETA: I really do not understand why some people would vote for the bottom four in all seriousness, especially the last one, but hey, its between them and God...


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## Poohbear (Jul 31, 2009)

Nevermind...


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## Shimmie (Jul 31, 2009)

Aviah said:


> As you get closer to God, the less likely you are to ignore what the scripture says on sex before marriage, the more you spend time with God the more you understand and start to see things his way, and become more sensitive to things that may lead the wrong may IMO. I don't know about kissing being a sin or anything, but it does have something to do with personal boundaries. A lot of books and generalized advice tell everyone not to kiss or hold too long, but for some people it really "doesn't do anything for them" different things get to different people, some may find a peck on the lips or a hand on the back too hot and heavy and some will find may not find anything enticing about it.
> 
> Things like being naked intertwined, fondling, all that I really do not agree with, like Shimmie said, but I do understand in some areas its about being sensitive to the Spirit and being real with yourself about "what gets the car started for either party" I know some couples who do not even peck piss and others  who tongue kiss and see nothing wrong. While I personally would not say tongue kissing is fine, it is about your conviction, sensitivity to God, and obeying reasonable limits (I am really not trying to say that you can so anything as long as you don't feel "guilty").
> HTH
> ...



I don't think that it was a Christian who did it.   

"We" know right from wrong.   And I can't get past the feeling that this topic is a 'set-up' .    Please forgive me if I'm wrong.   But 'think' about it.    Why such a big deal about a Christian's sex life?    Why are we under a microscope as weird specimens?    

Christians are human beings created and designed by God as are all other humans beings.  Same features, same needs for food, air and water and sleep and vacations in Hawaii.     

The difference in us is the Lord Jesus Christ.   We purpose to live by the Word of God and not that of man.   Choosing to not have sex is not the issue.  Rather, it's those who oppose it and are getting messed up left and right and right and left.    

I can't believe the mess that's going on with folks.  Sex is a game of 'anything' with 'anyone' goes.   That's just plain crazy.   

BTW:  You have an excellent post.  I love how you expressed:  "As you get closer to God..."   beautifully said and the total Truth, Aviah.    Thank you for saying that.


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## ebonylocs (Jul 31, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> *Having sex isn't the proof of having loving feelings for someone.  *It's not 'Rocket Science' to be aware of your feelings for someone without having sex with them.  Being Christian doesn't mean we are robots.  If nothing more, we as Christians love all the more and we cherish all the more every aspect of love, spirit, soul and body.  I'd rather have these elements of a relationship in tack before committing to marriage and making love.


To the bold: DEFINITELY NOT, of course not. But that wasn't what I asked about. Like I said, the *gray area*?

Leaving the sexual act aside (which wasn't what I was focussed on) - how do you interact with each other? If he can't hold your hand, touch you, cuddle you, or look at you in any way that would "cause love to arise", does that create an emotional distance between you? Does he  have to keep watching himself and thinking: "OK, this is allowed. This isn't." "This hug is lasting too long, let me step back."

I'm not debating, I really want someone to break it down for me like I'm a 4 year old. What can be said and done, when and where are you allowed to be alone, etc. I guess I want the "rules" and there really aren't any.
From what I've seen, (including on here) some Christian ladies may have some issues with negotiating that space. And from my personal experience with guys who take Christianity seriously, they sometimes seem uncertain what to do: how to approach a female, make their interest clear, gain her affections, but still remain "proper". So they may seem jittery and standoffish / lukewarm. But maybe that's just because they were young and shy anyway.



> A lot of folks these days (in all walks of life) are touching and leaving.  It's a 'Touch Phone' mentality with people, touching (scrolling) through one menu after another who can't figure what they really want.


 Quite true. That has never been me though, which is why I've been celibate perhaps 97% of my life, and single nearly as much.


GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I'm not Shimmie but I'll take a shot at this.  Through the mind.  Even in marriage, the best sex starts in the mind.  There's nothing more "sexy" than a spiritual man who loves G-d first and loves and respects you second (his mother 3rd lol) and is intelligent and well-balanced.  Physical sex is important but connecting through the mind and heart is worth much more.  The key is communication.


Oh please do – I requested other ladies who have courted and married to answer.

I definitely agree that good sex has to start with the mind. This is something I've always said: Ironically, nothing is sexier or more attractive than a guy who can spend time with me, in close proximity, without becoming an octopus trying to grope me everywhere. The mental and emotional connection has to be there. Sadly, some guys don't seem to get that, and think that every woman wants to hear right off the bat comments about how sexy she is, compliments on her body parts, flowery words, etc etc. Very quick to jump to "dirty talk" before even taking the time to really get to know you. They think *that* is a turn on.


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## ebonylocs (Jul 31, 2009)

Aviah said:


> ETA: I really do not understand why some people would vote for the bottom four in all seriousness, especially the last one, but hey, its between them and God...


Yeah, I was wondering about that. I have a feeling someone just decided to be mischievous. For some reason, it appears that it's hard to have honest discussion about these things w/o people acting like the teenage joker snickering in the back of the classroom.



Shimmie said:


> "We" know right from wrong.   And I can't get past the feeling that this topic is a 'set-up' .    Please forgive me if I'm wrong.   But 'think' about it.    Why such a big deal about a Christian's sex life?    Why are we under a microscope as weird specimens?


You know what? I think it is problematic that someone can't ask straightforward genuine questions, and get straightforward genuine answers without all the suspicion and aside comments. I don't know who has attacked you guys in this forum, and if that is the case, then you may have grounds to be wary, so I'll attempt to understand. However, all you have to do is a search of my posts to see that I'm always interested in genuine enquiry and arriving at truth.

My reasons for asking my questions are (1) I am an intellectually curious being - I always want to figure out why? how? (2) I have been exploring Christianity recently - I'm reading a number of books like "The Case for Christ", (3) I interact with devout Christians as family members (but some things you don't ask your mom(!)), friends, potential mates, and (4) some of the posts on the forums caused me to raise my eyebrow and think, "Wow, this person's version of Christianity is a lot more permissive than the one I'm familiar with."

Re your other point about Christians knowing right from wrong? It's not as cut and dried as that. (Or there would be no need for some of the books some posters mentioned).  As you have said, Christians are human. I'm sure people have thoughts, doubts, failures and triumphs with this issue, and they are probably afraid to discuss it openly in a forum like this because it would seem like they are not one of the perfectly holy.

With that, I'm done. Anyone who wishes to actually *answer* the questions and give their experiences from here on out, may comment. I'm not interested in debate and defensiveness, just discussion and understanding. (And please, this is nothing personal against anyone, just frustration with the way everyone is so afraid of everyone else).


----------



## Shimmie (Jul 31, 2009)

ebonylocs said:


> To the bold: DEFINITELY NOT, of course not. But that wasn't what I asked about. Like I said, the *gray area*?
> 
> Leaving the sexual act aside (which wasn't what I was focussed on) - how do you interact with each other? If he can't hold your hand, touch you, cuddle you, or look at you in any way that would "cause love to arise", does that create an emotional distance between you? Does he  have to keep watching himself and thinking: "OK, this is allowed. This isn't." "This hug is lasting too long, let me step back."
> 
> ...



I'm not creating a debate, but I dunno...     I just don't see the problem or the issue.   Or the big 'interest' about this regarding Christians.    It's not making any sense.  

I simply know what I'm not supposed to be doing and I choose not to do it.     Of course there are 'moments' and challenges.   We are all created by God as 'sexual beings'.   We ARE human, not aliens from Jupiter or Mars.    

 I love being a woman and all that goes with me.   And I love that my Sweetheart is a man who is 'manly' about being a man.  Neither one of us have any doubt about one another's gender or our purpose and functions.      His deep voice, his strength, just the fact that he's a man, makes him worth being in love with, that and all of his other qualities.    

Christians are no different than any other human beings, we fall in love and we love that we do.  I'd be devastated if I didn't have these feelings or if the man I love didn't share them.    It's "Love for Love", but there's a time and a place for it to happen.  

As for these 'grey' areas.   There are none.   Gee whiz, hold hands, kiss, just don't get carried away with it.   YOU know what not to do or makes you tempted.   You also know when a man is thinking about being 'with' you without him ever saying a word.    A man will 'look' at you and you can read right through him.    Please.   You know what he's thinking and what he wants.   You know he's interested.    You KNOW.    

His eyes will 'follow' you and when he's in love, you will see his eyes melt and his face has a smile that he gives to no one else.   

If you're asking about how do you express affection for someone you care about?    Express it!   Just don't go over the line.   It doesn't matter what on the list of ABC and 123.   

We know that *French kissing* is an arousal;  it an oral penetration which simulates penal penetration.  It's foreplay.   Men especially become quite aroused when they place their tongue inside of a woman's mouth.   He's sending the message that he wants to go further.   

*Fondling:*  It's an arousal to having sex.   You cannot touch a persons anatomy without it becoming stimulated.   Fondling is preparation for penetration.   

*Lying in bed together, clothed or unclothed:    *

Just be prepared to have sex.  Be it 'Sahara' or 'Oasis'  (Dry or Wet); that's what you are preparing to do.   You are in a lying position to have sex and it will happen.   

It doesn't matter who says they do this and find nothing harmful or wrong with it.   They are 'pushing' the edge to see just how far they can go without completing the act.    But they have already done it.   In their hearts and in their minds.   

Bottomline:    The posted poll doesn't have squat to do with Christianity.   It has no purpose as a Christian inquiry as it does not pertain to us.   There are no 'gray' neither grey areas with this issue.  It's as simple as that.   Sex is still sex no matter how one thinks they are *not actually *doing it.    

Again, I don't see the problem or what the big issue is which made it necessary to even ask.      

No.... to be more truthful, I've never 'made' it a problem.   That's a better answer.   I just never made it an issue or a problem.    

Peace and blessings...


----------



## HWAY (Jul 31, 2009)

I met and was courted by husband as a thirty-something single mother with a teenage girl who had been celibate for several years.  I was threatened by mother not to get pregnant because "your daughter is watching everything you do."  A close friend told me that when you become engaged, it is more difficult to remain celibate because you are already emotionally committed to that person.  

We discussed the fact we were not vigins or kids and I knew the depth of my sexual appetite.  It is best to limit time alone. And it may be prudent to limit the length of engagement.  As was said earlier, we are human with all too human desires.  It's dangerous to kid ourselves and think we can play with temptation.


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## ebonylocs (Jul 31, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm not creating a debate, but I dunno...     I just don't see the problem or the issue.   Or the big 'interest' about this regarding Christians.    It's not making any sense.
> 
> I simply know what I'm not supposed to be doing and I choose not to do it.     Of course there are 'moments' and challenges.   We are all created by God as 'sexual beings'.   We ARE human, not aliens from Jupiter or Mars.
> 
> ...



Okay, thanks Girl. Thanks for taking the time to reply. I guess I'm a bit "clinically minded" when I start querying things - I get all detailed and anal about it and don't think in personal terms how people might react. (E.g. how explicit choices in the poll would put people off).

I will take more time to think things over when I'm in a more settled frame of mind (right now I have lots to do and am procrastinating.)


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## ♥Lamaravilla♥ (Jul 31, 2009)

It appears that some people are getting defensive and I am not really sure why. I believe it is a valid question and see nothing wrong with it being asked. As far as why it is such a big deal? Well Christians are expected to adhere to certain behavior and standards. And when others see someone who identifies them self as a Christian yet partakes in behavior that seem to be contradictory it opens the door to these questions. But beyond that this is about having an open and honest dialogue about what is acceptable and what isn't in a relationship between a man and woman who are in a relationship but not yet married. 

There are many other things that I would like to express but I don't see the point, as I will just be attacked and judged and I don't feel like having my faith questioned today nor do I feel like dealing with others opinions of me and my lifestyle as a Christian. 

It's really unnecessary to question peoples motives about such things, as Christians we are supposed to be open and expressive about our beliefs and the word of God and living the life that God says we must live. If we are so quick to make assumptions about people who ask questions of us Christians, I believe that it turns people off from accepting anything else we might have to say. I mean really if we as Christians get so defensive about such a simple question how can others take us seriously when we finally do choose to share our thoughts and feelings with them. 

Just my $0.02


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 31, 2009)

ebonylocs said:


> Yeah, I was wondering about that. I have a feeling someone just decided to be mischievous. For some reason, it appears that it's hard to have honest discussion about these things w/o people acting like the teenage joker snickering in the back of the classroom.
> 
> 
> You know what? I think it is problematic that someone can't ask straightforward genuine questions, and get straightforward genuine answers without all the suspicion and aside comments. I don't know who has attacked you guys in this forum, and if that is the case, then you may have grounds to be wary, so I'll attempt to understand. However, all you have to do is a search of my posts to see that I'm always interested in genuine enquiry and arriving at truth.
> ...



I honestly believe this is something you have to answer for yourself...
I have seen couples who sit a seat away from each other in the movies... which was laughable to me, but for them it mightve been right cuz they cranked out like 6 kids back to back so I'm guessing they were UBER horny lol for lack of a better word...
Other people I know kissed, napped together, etc... 
Its all about your own personal conviction and how God speaks to you personally... 
Go to Him and ask what He expects of you...
I wouldn't get the advice off of here... you can answer your own question better than all of the woman on LHCF, Christian or not...
God will give you all the step by step instructions you need if you listen... who knows the path or reason why anyone (including me) is telling you what to do... thats just me hope that helps...
and trust me, this is not an easy fight, ALL OF US STRUGGLE WITH THIS


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## LovelyMe24 (Jul 31, 2009)

Aviah said:


> *As you get closer to God, the less likely you are to ignore what the scripture says on sex before marriage, the more you spend time with God the more you understand and start to see things his way, and become more sensitive to things that may lead the wrong may IMO*. I don't know about kissing being a sin or anything, but it does have something to do with personal boundaries. A lot of books and generalized advice tell everyone not to kiss or hold too long, but for some people it really "doesn't do anything for them" different things get to different people, some may find a peck on the lips or a hand on the back too hot and heavy and some will find may not find anything enticing about it. Things like being naked intertwined, fondling, all that I really do not agree with, like Shimmie said, but I do understand in some areas its about being sensitive to the Spirit and being real with yourself about "what gets the car started for either party" I know some couples who do not even peck piss and others  who tongue kiss and see nothing wrong. While I personally would not say tongue kissing is fine, it is about your conviction, sensitivity to God, and obeying reasonable limits (I am really not trying to say that you can so anything as long as you don't feel "guilty").
> HTH
> 
> ETA: I really do not understand why some people would vote for the bottom four in all seriousness, especially the last one, but hey, its between them and God...



I really agree with what you've said here.

_Ephesians 5:3 states "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality...because these are improper for God's holy people."_

However, there's always going to be the debate concerning what is and isn't "allowed".  I personally don't like the word allowed in this sense, because it's almost as if one is asking "what can I get away with?"

In terms of what is acceptable, I do think it is pretty well written out in scripture.  I also definitely agree with the bolded above.  I feel as if my relationship with God has really grown this summer, and what is 'acceptable' in terms of pre marital relations has become pretty clear.

Of course, there isn't a list in the bible of what can and can not be done, but I like to go to Romans in cases such as this:

_Romans 14:22 - 23 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin._

What I take from the above is that, in some circumstances, just because something may be a sin for one, does not make it a sin for all, and vice versa.  God gave us our conscious for a reason.  However, like Aviah pointed out, just because one doesn't feel guilty about something doesn't make it alright.

To answer your question, the bible does say not to act out of lust, and not to tempt another to fall.  So I would say that anything that corresponds with one of these between an unmarried couple would be 'off limits'.  However, what causes these can definitely differ between different people.

Ultimately, I think this is a situation that really has to be between a Christian and God.  

Personally, I'm really trying hard to:

_"not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"  (Song of Solomon 8:4)_


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## Shimmie (Jul 31, 2009)

lamaravilla said:


> *
> 
> It appears that some people are getting defensive and I am not really sure why. *
> 
> ...


Let's get something clear about what I posted and I mean every single word of it.

This thread 'seems' to put Christians under a social survey, social experiment or microscope as if there's something 'wrong' or 'weird' with Christians because we choose to honor the sanctity of sex.    The interest is as OP said, was presented as too clinical which is exactly as I perceived it to be.  And why?  We're not aliens over here.  

Folks are playing games. * Note:  I'm not necessarily saying this about ebonylocs, the OP of this thread, * but the 'spirit' of it is here. I can sense it. 

There are  people here who are flesh and blood human beings with hearts and feelings and we should be respected as such.  They've been through many a trial and heartbreak and as Christians they are striving to have peace in their lives and to leave Godly and at peace with everyone _if possible._  They do not deserve to 'mocked' for their faith and strivings to live right for God.  

The 'world' and the lurkers of this thread don't care that we value sex or why we choose to place a value on our relationship with God.  They're looking for more reasons to mock and joke about 'us' and to use it as an insult rather than commend us.   

That poll is raw, way too explicit and extremely offensive to the Body of Christ.  Why even dare 'assume' that we would even 'go there' or to see if there would be a tally of those who do.   But it's there as an afront to say, "Yeah, Right".   And here's the clue:  Most of the folks who are not Christians, have been lurking here just to see how many would select the raw and explicit options on that poll.   Look at numbers of those who are viewing this thread.   90% are not Christians seeking advice.  Rather they are Lurkers seeking to accuse or to be amused.

You want to call me 'defensive', you better believe that I am.  I cherish this forum and I will defend it.   I'll stand toe to toe with anyone who opposes me and I will not back down.   I care about the needs of the people here.  They come to me for prayer everyday and I am not going to bail out on them or the Lord.    

There's a 'spirit' that has come into this Christianity forum, a spirit of 'mockery' of the Christian faith, as an 'afront' to God.  I'm watching and I'm praying.  You don't have to like it.  But it's what I'm called to do.  Watch and pray.  

Me Defensive? ... Yeah!  You better believe it!


----------



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 31, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> Lol i love your posts that was really funny I'm gonna start imagining that pic next to me all the time now LOL




LOL.  It reminded me of a movie I saw with this newly married couple and Jesus and Mary were on the wall above their bed and he couldn't get his groove on He made her cover the icons.


----------



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 31, 2009)

Aviah said:


> As you get closer to God, the less likely you are to ignore what the scripture says on sex before marriage, the more you spend time with God the more you understand and start to see things his way, and become more sensitive to things that may lead the wrong may IMO. I don't know about kissing being a sin or anything, but it does have something to do with personal boundaries. *A lot of books and generalized advice tell everyone not to kiss or hold too long, but for some people it really "doesn't do anything for them" different things get to different people, some may find a peck on the lips or a hand on the back too hot and heavy and some will find may not find anything enticing about it. Things like being naked intertwined, fondling, all that I really do not agree with, like Shimmie said, *but I do understand in some areas its about being sensitive to the Spirit and being real with yourself about "what gets the car started for either party" I know some couples who do not even peck piss and others  who tongue kiss and see nothing wrong. While I personally would not say tongue kissing is fine, it is about your conviction, sensitivity to God, and obeying reasonable limits (I am really not trying to say that you can so anything as long as you don't feel "guilty").
> HTH
> 
> ETA: I really do not understand why some people would vote for the bottom four in all seriousness, especially the last one, but hey, its between them and God...




I remember an old Real World episode that had a christian guy who had a girlfriend.  He was going on and on about his walk with the L-rd and how they set boundaries...but they had naked oral sex...in the same house as his roommates.  I was like   He was a young guy and he thought they were still virgins as long as he never penetrated her.


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## BrooklynSouth (Jul 31, 2009)

*Not there yet but once he arrives as he surely will..there will be close cuddling, deep kisses, no fondling and absolutely no penetration of any body parts beyond the kisses. I've had enough sex to last me a lifetime so if marriage brings a less than satisfactory penetration..no biggie..we'll have so many other things going on that it will be a sideline to the deeper friendship, love and sharing of life. Hey, a do right dream is worth the patience..God will bring me the right one who is on the same wavelength when it is time.*


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## Renovating (Jul 31, 2009)

ebonylocs said:


> You know what? I think it is problematic that someone can't ask straightforward genuine questions, and get straightforward genuine answers without all the suspicion and aside comments. I don't know who has attacked you guys in this forum, and if that is the case, then you may have grounds to be wary, so I'll attempt to understand. However, all you have to do is a search of my posts to see that I'm always interested in genuine enquiry and arriving at truth.
> 
> My reasons for asking my questions are (1) I am an intellectually curious being - I always want to figure out why? how? (2) I have been exploring Christianity recently - I'm reading a number of books like "The Case for Christ", (3) I interact with devout Christians as family members (but some things you don't ask your mom(!)), friends, potential mates, and (4) some of the posts on the forums *caused me to raise my eyebrow and think, "Wow, this person's version of Christianity is a lot more permissive than the one I'm familiar with."*
> 
> ...


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 31, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Bottomline:    The posted poll doesn't have squat to do with Christianity.   It has no purpose as a Christian inquiry as it does not pertain to us.   There are no 'gray' neither grey areas with this issue.  It's as simple as that.   Sex is still sex no matter how one thinks they are *not actually *doing it.
> 
> Again, I don't see the problem or w*hat the big issue is which made it necessary to even ask.      *
> 
> ...



Just like those wishing to formally convert to a form of christianity like orthodoxy or catholicism or perhaps judaism, to see if it's something they can actually live with (confessing sexual sin to another person, realizing that such sin breaks union with G-d or mortally etc. [not the case with other forms of christianity] or in ultra orthodox judaism, sex 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off and no touching in between for marrieds).  

I believe the inquiry serves as a seeking just how viable that lifestyle will be pragmatically and  if they will be happily faithful to that particular decision to convert.  For example, in the Coptic faith, dating, period, is considered a sin.  On the real!  It can land you in big trouble with Abouna (Father/priest).  I mean going to the movies, declaring somebody a "boy/girlfriend."  You are supposed to court and that means in the presence of family.  Maybe they allow courtship without anybody else present but courtship comes about as the result of a religious ceremony declaring the two on the path to marriage.  It is a blessed path by the Church.  I think it was a very valid inquiry considering the examples I provided because there are aspects of any faith that seekers want to know up front and beforehand.  No one wise will make a decision to follow a faith without delving deep into it's precepts and rules.

As for mocker of the faith?  So what?  People will mock catholics right and left.  So what?  They don't know what I know.  People will mock judaism, the start and meat of the christian faith.  They will mock pentecostals (okay, I even mock pentecostals lol) and evangelicals and snake-handlers.  So what?  They can mock all they want.  What's more important?  Living your found truth, that's all.  I don't think of this forum as some kind of privileged shelter from the real world.  L-rd knows, I get and have gotten lots of negatives myself in here...Richard Twiss and the Native Americans...will never forget the "christian" ugliness that ensued.  Nonetheless, I *choose *to come in here and relate to others.  It makes me aware of the diversity in the world and gives me an appreciation of it all.  This is not the new segregated Eden, it's a forum for discussion.  If it ever comes to the point that x-people here are mandated to share the exact same religion and experiences, then I'll exit.  Up until that time, I think we're all mature  enough to just live out our truths and allow others the dignity of inquiry.  If there are those who mock the faith, I'm sure they will be swiftly rebuked lol.  But that doesn't give any of us the right to suspect another without proof as it becomes an accusation.  I think that is unjust.  IMHO.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 31, 2009)

Omg LOL that is so funny...
a new married couple lol
when I get married I'm puttin a pic of Jesus right above the bed and I'ma stare him straight at the eye while I'm on top and say THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!
lol its a gift indeed I can't wait 



GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> LOL.  It reminded me of a movie I saw with this newly married couple and Jesus and Mary were on the wall above their bed and he couldn't get his groove on He made her cover the icons.


----------



## music-bnatural-smile (Jul 31, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Let's get something clear about what I posted and I mean every single word of it.
> 
> *This thread 'seems' to put Christians under a social survey, social experiment or microscope as if there's something 'wrong' or 'weird' with Christians because we choose to honor the sanctity of sex.*    The interest is as OP said, was presented as too clinical which is exactly as I perceived it to be.  And why?  We're not aliens over here.
> 
> ...




Yikes..
people use forums for different things, its not your place to decide what spirit is in here... blah blah blah etc.
I think when people have questions they are looking for an answer and that is their right...
While you're praying you should pray for your own discernment as well... and for the Lord to open your heart to productive discussion, as should the rest of us so that we are not bringing each other down...
And to the bolded parts, those are your opinion... which is nice... but really... demanding us and making all these outright statements like you are the end-all supervisor is kind of counter productive to all of us growing and learning... that's really and honestly not to be rude sistah...
*While I did make a joke at the beginning... I think it was a good survey because it came from her, and that was what she wanted to do... that is her right.
*​We can't decide what is demeaning to the body of Christ because I bet some people learned something from this thread... and honestly, *we have Christ in our hearts, but at the end of the day we are supposed to be like Him, we can never BE Him... *catch my drift?
The prayer threads are where we can support each other, the sharing threads really do encourage each other, and the questions can make us think... There's nothing wrong with thinking... thats why we have a brain...
erplexed


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 31, 2009)

.............hate mozilla...messed up my post...let's try again


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 31, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> Omg LOL that is so funny...
> a new married couple lol
> when I get married I'm puttin a pic of Jesus right above the bed and I'ma stare him straight at the eye while I'm on top and say THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!
> lol its a gift indeed I can't wait



You can expect either of these lol (I'm going straight to confession for that one lolol! Thank G-d it's tomorrow )



 "attaway, child!"


OR




" Oy vey! Ver's ze respect!!!"


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## Shimmie (Jul 31, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Just like those wishing to formally convert to a form of christianity like orthodoxy or catholicism or perhaps judaism, to see if it's something they can actually live with (confessing sexual sin to another person, realizing that such sin breaks union with G-d or mortally etc. [not the case with other forms of christianity] or in ultra orthodox judaism, sex 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off and no touching in between for marrieds).
> 
> I believe the inquiry serves as a seeking just how viable that lifestyle will be pragmatically and if they will be happily faithful to that particular decision to convert. For example, in the Coptic faith, dating, period, is considered a sin. On the real! It can land you in big trouble with Abouna (Father/priest). I mean going to the movies, declaring somebody a "boy/girlfriend." You are supposed to court and that means in the presence of family. Maybe they allow courtship without anybody else present but courtship comes about as the result of a religious ceremony declaring the two on the path to marriage. It is a blessed path by the Church. I think it was a very valid inquiry considering the examples I provided because there are aspects of any faith that seekers want to know up front and beforehand. No one wise will make a decision to follow a faith without delving deep into it's precepts and rules.
> 
> As for mocker of the faith? So what? People will mock catholics right and left. So what? They don't know what I know. People will mock judaism, the start and meat of the christian faith. They will mock pentecostals (okay, I even mock pentecostals lol) and evangelicals and snake-handlers. So what? They can mock all they want. What's more important? Living your found truth, that's all. I don't think of this forum as some kind of privileged shelter from the real world. L-rd knows, I get and have gotten lots of negatives myself in here...Richard Twiss and the Native Americans...will never forget the "christian" ugliness that ensued. Nonetheless, I *choose *to come in here and relate to others. It makes me aware of the diversity in the world and gives me an appreciation of it all. This is not the new segregated Eden, it's a forum for discussion. If it ever comes to the point that x-people here are mandated to share the exact same religion and experiences, then I'll exit. Up until that time, I think we're all mature enough to just live out our truths and allow others the dignity of inquiry. If there are those who mock the faith, I'm sure they will be swiftly rebuked lol. But that doesn't give any of us the right to suspect another without proof as it becomes an accusation. I think that is unjust. IMHO.


 
GV, I thanked you but what's your point?


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 31, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> GV, I thanked you but what's your point?




 I wondered about that.    I mean to say that some people ask because they sincerely wish to know.  She never mentioned the sect of christianity...might involve a full and formal 6-month to 1-year long conversion...or longer.  Rules and regulations?  Present living style?  Compatibility?  I think we can allow questions without accusations of mockery.


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## Shimmie (Jul 31, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I wondered about that.  I mean to say that some people ask because they sincerely wish to know. She never mentioned the sect of christianity...might involve a full and formal 6-month to 1-year long conversion...or longer. Rules and regulations? Present living style? Compatibility? I think we can allow questions without accusations of mockery.


Okay... You lost me with my ancestors (Native Americans).  

So, in other words, Christianity is not a revolving door or a discount shoe store.  Where some may come to try what they like and maybe come back for more.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 31, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Okay... You lost me with my ancestors (Native Americans).
> 
> So, in other words, Christianity is not a revolving door or a discount shoe store.  Where some may come to try what they like and maybe come back for more.



LOL no.  But there may be very great differences between what is allowable or considered serious sin from sect to sect...and in the way they deal with them.  Seriously, yours and mine are just that different, that they are different religions.  She may not be able now to put up with such vast changes.


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## Shimmie (Jul 31, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> *LOL no. But there may be very great differences between what is allowable or considered serious sin from sect to sect...and in the way they deal with them*.
> 
> Seriously, yours and mine are just that different, that they are different religions. She may not be able now to put up with such vast changes.


  Okay, I understand.   Thanks GV.


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## Leife (Aug 1, 2009)

I thank the author of this post.  I am a single Christian woman and I struggle with this tremendously.  It is obvious that early Christians struggled with sexual immorailty otherwise this would not have been addressed so specifically in the bible.  At the time Paul wrote his letters he was also addressing a rampant problem of incest in the lives of early Christians (and these guys had seen Jesus!!)  The specific details in your poll help those seeking counsel to determine what is meant by this broad term of sexual immorality.  How far should we go?  How far we should advise our daughters to go.  God did make us sensual human beings and instead of condemning each other we should embrace each other with love and provide good counsel.  Jesus didn't condemn the prostitute or the woman with many husbands instead he counseled them wisely.  Christians should be able to come to each other and expose their weaknesses and talk about problemssuch as sex before marriage,ponography, homosexuality, paedophilia and adultery which are as rampant in the church as they are in the world.

My best friend agreed with her now husband not to have sex before marriage and after their marriage she found out he suffers from ED.  She now has many regrets and wonders if it was the right thing to do.  She is a Christian and loves God. 

I am now on a journey to remain pure and holy before God but my view is that God judges all sin equally we are not better Christians because we are sexually pure but then hate or judge our brothers and sisters or dishonour our parents or are full of pride.

I hope God continues to provide a sense of community in this forum where I often come to lurk for advice or to be inspired by the many stories here.  God bless all.


----------



## ♥Lamaravilla♥ (Aug 1, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Let's get something clear about what I posted and I mean every single word of it.
> 
> This thread 'seems' to put Christians under a social survey, social experiment or microscope as if there's something 'wrong' or 'weird' with Christians because we choose to honor the sanctity of sex.    The interest is as OP said, was presented as too clinical which is exactly as I perceived it to be.  And why?  We're not aliens over here.
> 
> ...



You are entirely too sensitive. There is no mocking going on in this thread. And yes, quite a few people have viewed this thread but I choose to believe that it's because people would like insight on how Christian women are able to deal with any temptation they might face in their relationship. It's people like yourself that turn people off from Christianity with the holier than thou, rigid attitude. 

There is nothing raw or explicit about the poll, it's about sex, and there is nothing wrong about discussing sex and how Christians handle sex in their lives. If anything it can inspire others to follow whatever example they admire and give others the strength to persevere in an hour of temptation. And as Christians, of course we are under a microscope!!! How could we not be? Especially when there are some who insist on placing themselves on a pedestal. Anyway, I am done trying to discuss this. I am just simply appalled at the response that this thread has gotten. Go ahead and be defensive, I haven't the energy to waste on that nonsense


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## Shimmie (Aug 1, 2009)

lamaravilla said:


> You are entirely too sensitive. There is no mocking going on in this thread. And yes, quite a few people have viewed this thread but I choose to believe that it's because people would like insight on how Christian women are able to deal with any temptation they might face in their relationship.
> It's people like yourself that turn people off from Christianity with the holier than thou, rigid attitude.
> 
> There is nothing raw or explicit about the poll, it's about sex, and there is nothing wrong about discussing sex and how Christians handle sex in their lives. If anything it can inspire others to follow whatever example they admire and give others the strength to persevere in an hour of temptation. And as Christians, of course we are under a microscope!!! How could we not be? Especially when there are some who insist on placing themselves on a pedestal. Anyway, I am done trying to discuss this. I am just simply appalled at the response that this thread has gotten. Go ahead and be defensive, I haven't the energy to waste on that nonsense


What pedestal?  You just placed me there.  Obvisoulsy your issue is with me personally, not this thread.    And do you really think I care?


----------



## ♥Lamaravilla♥ (Aug 1, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> What pedestal?  You just placed me there.  Obvisoulsy your issue is with me personally, not this thread.    And do you really think I care?





Thank you for showing others what a Christian shouldn't be like.


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## Raspberry (Aug 1, 2009)

jasmineleann said:


> Also she was explaining how even when married oral and anal sex, even fondling each other, and masturbation is not to be allowed because you are un-fruitful. Yes, God gave us sex to enjoy with our partners in marriage, but also to have children.



Ok this should probably be another thread, but there really is no scripture that states exactly what married people should be doing between the sheets.  There is also no scripture that states that sex is only for procreation - the Bible is actually fairly realistic that people want to have sex because of other desires besides having children.  To me it's obvious that the author has a personal bias against certain acts.  The Song of Solomon is all about a couple enjoying each other's bodies and company for it's own sake, not just for childbearing.  Forgive my explicitness, but is touching a woman's breasts forbidden because it doesn't produce children? Wouldn't that exclude kissing too?     

If a person feels personally convicted against fondling and oral sex or whatever, that's on them .. but to come up with arbitrary rules for what married Christians should be doing in bed is unnecessary and just causes confusion. This could really cause young Christians strife in their marriage.


----------



## Raspberry (Aug 1, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> What pedestal?  You just placed me there.  Obvisoulsy your issue is with me personally, not this thread.    And do you really think I care?




Shimmie, you have a big heart and offer countless insight in this forum but in this particular thread I think you may need to relax a bit.

Sex is a big issue for many Christians, especially since a lot of us aren't virgins.  There are many Christian women having sex or having a hard time stopping, partly because their mindsets are warped because of their upbringing, lack of solid teaching in church, and past sexual experiences.  The post by authentictymanifesting was particuarly thought provoking because I do believe that since God created sex as a shadow of true intimacy between Himself and his people, it is the ideal area for the enemy to set up mental and emotional strongholds.  

Now while a lot of issues about pre-marital sexual conduct is clear to me and I don't struggle with gray areas anymore, that is a result of my mind being renewed by the Word and the Spirit over time.  All of us are in the process of being renewed and believers are supposed to be available to counsel each other in weak areas.  A lot of Christians don't have anyone in real life they can be honest with about their sexual histories or struggles.. we should keep that in mind.


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## Raspberry (Aug 1, 2009)

ebonylocs said:


> As a non-Christian, some of the recent posts by Christians in OT and this forum have piqued my interest.
> 
> Maybe because I grew up in a country that tends to view and enact Christianity very conservatively, my image is that anyone professing to be a "Christian" would be expected to remain chaste in thought, word and deed until marriage. So thinking of or calling someone as "sexy" would be out of the question, so would any kind of sexual interaction (words, touching) with someone not your husband.
> 
> ...



When it comes to acts that are not expressly forbidden in the Bible we have to learn to follow the Holy Spirit in other matters.  in John 16 Jesus tells us that God sent the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin, guide us into all truth and righteousness, and give us everything Jesus died for us to have.

We can make rules on these things but that is inferior to what God intends. The purpose of life is for us to grow in His love, grown in the knowledge of Him, and become more like Him - not just to follow a list of dos and donts.  Jesus died so that we can have that relationship with the Father and know His heart through the Spirit.  Even the law of Moses, which was a perfect law given by God himself was not enough to change the hearts of the people.  Instead, like Paul talks about in Romans 7, the law cause people to be hyper aware of sin and thus even more tempted.  Paul contrasts this compulsive and frustrating battle with sin with life lived according to the Spirit in Romans 8 where freedom from sin and continual life and peace are what define your life.

I said all of that to say that our conduct either strengthens our relationship with God or does not.  Practically speaking, living according to the Spirit means your mind is focused on spiritual things that pertain to growth and joy.  If you do not have peace in your conduct that is the Spirit telling you something is wrong.  If your conduct causes you to focus on selfish desire or your own pleasure and magnifies lust, than you know it is not godly.  As you grow in God and use the Word as a mirror into your heart and life, it becomes very clear what actions please or displease Him.  Obey the promptings of the Spirit (that nudging in your heart), they become clearer over time.


----------



## chicacanella (Aug 1, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> The bible says it is good for a man not to touch a woman and oh how right they are....
> 
> "Love" is awakened very easily, its best not to touch each other at all. Especially, if your really attracted to the person. Caring for someone makes it feel impossible not to want to love them up.
> 
> Sigh...I need to go pray.


 
*OMG...I'm glad I came in here. I was praying about something and The Holy Spirit said it was a slippery slope. I had to think about it and said, "a slippery slope?" A slope is going downward anyway and if it's slippery, then it would be very difficult to stop going down hill.*

*So, I think it had to do with french kissing. Now, the flesh in me would make excuses like, "Well, if a slope does sort of have a leveled plane at the top, then maybe we could just stay there."*

*But then, I know that these are just excuses so what I'm going to do is go in prayer and try to get another confirmation from The Holy Spirit.*

illustration below:


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## chicacanella (Aug 1, 2009)

jasmineleann said:


> Ty Adams explains how anything other than holding hands and a peck is wrong when you are engaging in these activities before marriage. Even thinking about lustful acts, and not phycially acting out on them is wrong. In scripture it says;
> 
> Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)
> 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
> ...


 
Well, I definitely have to pray on this. Okay, I just don't understand how you are actually going to be prepped for sex as a woman without fondling. So, I went and looked for definitions.

fondle: to pamper
to handle tenderly, lovingly or lingerly: caress
to show affection or desire by caressing.

Maybe I am misunderstanding, is she saying that if it isn't a precursor to sex then don't do it. I can't just see someone kissing and keeping their hands to themselves, then finally the man jumping to penetration.

I would really like to understand this because of course, it's knowlege and just cause I want something doesn't mean I'm going to ignore something that may help me get closer to God. Please write back.



nicola.kirwan said:


> As far as individuals posting about their experiences goes, I think we have to remember that even if a person is celibate now, that doesn't mean they always were. So if someone writes in OT as if they know what sex is like, it doesn't necessarily mean that they approve of sex outside of marriage, just that they've been there before.
> 
> Personally, I think that until marriage anything sexual is out of order, sexual as in pertaining to and leading up to sex. I don't think that all physical affection is foreplay, though. Kissing is ok with me. Tongue, probably not.


 
*I need to pray cause' I thought nothing was wrong with tongue, until I was praying and if The Holy Spirit said it was a slippery slope. I think I was praying about the tongue thing.*



Aviah said:


> As you get closer to God, the less likely you are to ignore what the scripture says on sex before marriage, the more you spend time with God the more you understand and start to see things his way, and become more sensitive to things that may lead the wrong may IMO. I don't know about kissing being a sin or anything, but it does have something to do with personal boundaries. A lot of books and generalized advice tell everyone not to kiss or hold too long, but for some people it really "doesn't do anything for them" different things get to different people, some may find a peck on the lips or a hand on the back too hot and heavy and some will find may not find anything enticing about it. Things like being naked intertwined, fondling, all that I really do not agree with, like Shimmie said, but I do understand in some areas its about being sensitive to the Spirit and being real with yourself about "what gets the car started for either party" I know some couples who do not even peck piss and others who tongue kiss and see nothing wrong. While I personally would not say tongue kissing is fine, it is about your conviction, sensitivity to God, and obeying reasonable limits (I am really not trying to say that you can so anything as long as you don't feel "guilty").
> HTH
> 
> ETA: I really do not understand why some people would vote for the bottom four in all seriousness, especially the last one, but hey, its between them and God...


 
*I thought that in the Songs of Solomon, they kissed before married. I'll go try and find the scripture.*


Shimmie said:


> Let's get something clear about what I posted and I mean every single word of it.
> 
> This thread 'seems' to put Christians under a social survey, social experiment or microscope as if there's something 'wrong' or 'weird' with Christians because we choose to honor the sanctity of sex. The interest is as OP said, was presented as too clinical which is exactly as I perceived it to be. And why? We're not aliens over here.
> 
> ...


 
*Shimmie, I wanted to say that I had a dream about this forum. And it something that The Holy Spirit was trying to explain to me but there is a certain spirit that comes and goes on this forum and dictates what kind of topics are brought up, what we speak about, who even comes on this forum.*


----------



## chicacanella (Aug 1, 2009)

Leife said:


> I thank the author of this post. I am a single Christian woman and I struggle with this tremendously. It is obvious that early Christians struggled with sexual immorailty otherwise this would not have been addressed so specifically in the bible. At the time Paul wrote his letters he was also addressing a rampant problem of incest in the lives of early Christians (and these guys had seen Jesus!!) The specific details in your poll help those seeking counsel to determine what is meant by this broad term of sexual immorality. How far should we go? How far we should advise our daughters to go. God did make us sensual human beings and instead of condemning each other we should embrace each other with love and provide good counsel. Jesus didn't condemn the prostitute or the woman with many husbands instead he counseled them wisely. Christians should be able to come to each other and expose their weaknesses and talk about problemssuch as sex before marriage,ponography, homosexuality, paedophilia and adultery which are as rampant in the church as they are in the world.
> 
> My best friend agreed with her now husband not to have sex before marriage and after their marriage she found out he suffers from ED. She now has many regrets and wonders if it was the right thing to do. She is a Christian and loves God.
> 
> ...


 

*When you speak about your best friend, how could having sex before marriage been right? I mean, if she tried to have sex before marriage she would've found out and probably tried to do something to help him. She's had sex now as married and is...still likely doing something to help him. I mean, the problem is still there either way so I really don't see her regrets. They have pills and all kind of stuff to help men with ED and don't forget he can be healed by the stripes of Jesus Christ.*

*I can't see someone who is in love with a man, saying, "I no longer want to love you because of this or that ailment." Granted, she could've rejected him because of this flaw but if it was ordained by God, I couldn't see her doing this. And if she was thinking about dumping him because of this, that is really harsh for her to tell someone about it. So, I'm just feeling that this wasn't the reason she wanted to know beforehand.*


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## Leife (Aug 1, 2009)

So to be clear she never said she "did not want to love him because of this ailment" and she still believes that sex before marriage is wrong.  However she would have appreciated knowing before the marriage.  Sex is important in a marriage if you want to have children, if you want to feel loved etc and men with this problem are highly embarrassed about it and tend to reject their partners which creates other problems in the marriage.  My point in bringing this up is that it was the first relationship in which she decided to remain pure and she has regrets that there is no sex in her marriage and she feels let down.  Many Christians (wrongly) believe that they should experience that part of a relationship before committing to marriage and as a result the whole spectrum of what is sexual immorality is always greatly debated. Some Christians believe it is okay to have sex in a full committed relationship many live together before marriage. 









chicacanella said:


> *When you speak about your best friend, how could having sex before marriage been right? I mean, if she tried to have sex before marriage she would've found out and probably tried to do something to help him. She's had sex now as married and is...still likely doing something to help him. I mean, the problem is still there either way so I really don't see her regrets. They have pills and all kind of stuff to help men with ED and don't forget he can be healed by the stripes of Jesus Christ.*
> 
> *I can't see someone who is in love with a man, saying, "I no longer want to love you because of this or that ailment." Granted, she could've rejected him because of this flaw but if it was ordained by God, I couldn't see her doing this. And if she was thinking about dumping him because of this, that is really harsh for her to tell someone about it. So, I'm just feeling that this wasn't the reason she wanted to know beforehand.*


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 1, 2009)

Leife said:


> *I thank the author of this post.  I am a single Christian woman and I struggle with this tremendously.  It is obvious that early Christians struggled with sexual immorailty otherwise this would not have been addressed so specifically in the bible.  At the time Paul wrote his letters he was also addressing a rampant problem* .




And this is definitely one case in which historical perspective is incredibly important.  Cases of incest were obviously different than the "dating" scene, which was non-existant.  Righteous people didn't date, they neither held hands.  Ultra-orthodox Jews today do NOT touch the opposite sex, period.  This was also then.  So, a woman and man betrothed to each other, remaining righteous, did not touch, no kisses, hand-holding...nothing.  They were also chaperoned.  

We obviously do not live in the Middle-east today and modern dating is just that, modern.  It didn't exist in the past.  There is so much for us to try and figure out...what is righteous living in this culture we live in now.  Timely topic.

About the guy with ED, I think he must have known before he got married.  Surely, a doctor would have diagnosed him.  I believe that withholding such info from a potential spouse would be grounds for a divorce or annulment as an invalid marriage.  If she wanted children...and certainly an enjoyable sexual life, he should not have kept this info from her.  He himself would have known he couldn't raise his member.  How?  Men masturbate all the time.  How incredibly selfish of him.

  Incidentally, I have friends this happened to.  The men were sterile, even possessing only 2 members, not all three.  The women wanted children.  They were lucky the women stayed with them...but they were not completely happy.  Sex is important to marriage and certainly for having children.  I would not have married someone who was incapable of having sex.  That would be my right and it wouldn't be a marriage "ordained" by G-d.  He should have loved her enough to let her go but he was scared...and selfish...and embarassed to allow a doctor to help him prior to the marriage.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 1, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> *When it comes to acts that are not expressly forbidden in the Bible we have to learn to follow the Holy Spirit in other matters.  in John 16 Jesus tells us that God sent the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin, guide us into all truth and righteousness, and give us everything Jesus died for us to have.*
> 
> We can make rules on these things but that is inferior to what God intends. The purpose of life is for us to grow in His love, grown in the knowledge of




That's actually where the Church comes in to provide the guidance, the rules and forbiddences, under the guiding of the Holy Spirit, where the Church says "no" and the members comply in faith.  Of course, I'm catholic, so it's a set and done deal for us.  We know exactly what is allowable and what is not.

But what about protestants?  Do any of your single denominations/congregations set up such guidelines? Do your pastors go through a list of do's and don'ts for the congregants in sermons or special seminars for singles or married?  If so, how do congregants take the teachings?  I truly wish to know.  I'm thinking "Paul Washer" types of pastors.

Lastly, despite the clash of personalities in this thread....this discussion is truly progressing into an intelligent one so we should not hinder that.  I hope we can continue it because  it's thought-provoking and obviously needed.  I don't think we've been quite this honest for a few months!


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 1, 2009)

lamaravilla said:


> Thank you for showing others what a Christian shouldn't be like.


I don't have that to worry about...


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## Shimmie (Aug 1, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> *Shimmie, I wanted to say that I had a dream about this forum. And it something that The Holy Spirit was trying to explain to me but there is a certain spirit that comes and goes on this forum and dictates what kind of topics are brought up, what we speak about, who even comes on this forum.*


 
I know...I've been 'aware' of it for a while.  Review your last 8 threads and the thread topics that followed them.  See what God shows you in prayer.  :Rose:


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 1, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> What pedestal? You just placed me there. Obvisoulsy your issue is with me personally, not this thread.  And do you really think I care?


 
Huh? Why? I don't understand LOL... 



Raspberry said:


> Shimmie, you have a big heart and offer countless insight in this forum but in this particular thread I think you may need to relax a bit.
> 
> Sex is a big issue for many Christians, especially since a lot of us aren't virgins. There are many Christian women having sex or having a hard time stopping, partly because their mindsets are warped because of their upbringing, lack of solid teaching in church, and past sexual experiences. The post by authentictymanifesting was particuarly thought provoking because I do believe that since God created sex as a shadow of true intimacy between Himself and his people, it is the ideal area for the enemy to set up mental and emotional strongholds.
> 
> Now while a lot of issues about pre-marital sexual conduct is clear to me and I don't struggle with gray areas anymore, that is a result of my mind being renewed by the Word and the Spirit over time. All of us are in the process of being renewed and believers are supposed to be available to counsel each other in weak areas. A lot of Christians don't have anyone in real life they can be honest with about their sexual histories or struggles.. we should keep that in mind.


 
Agreed...


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## HeShotMeBangBang (Aug 1, 2009)

it seems that when you're a christian it wards off the men anyways, so I won't be having sex for a very long time. But in the back of my head I think what guy would stick around that long and wait? We'll see cuz right now I'm not in the position to marry.
I can't see marrying an option for the next 12-15 years...


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## Renovating (Aug 1, 2009)

I guess it really isn't anything new under the sun. Ebonylocs and interested others see this thread: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=56207


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## chicacanella (Aug 1, 2009)

Leife said:


> So to be clear she never said she "did not want to love him because of this ailment" and she still believes that sex before marriage is wrong. However she would have appreciated knowing before the marriage. Sex is important in a marriage if you want to have children, if you want to feel loved etc and men with this problem are highly embarrassed about it and tend to reject their partners which creates other problems in the marriage. My point in bringing this up is that it was the first relationship in which she decided to remain pure and she has regrets that there is no sex in her marriage and she feels let down. Many Christians (wrongly) believe that they should experience that part of a relationship before committing to marriage and as a result the whole spectrum of what is sexual immorality is always greatly debated. Some Christians believe it is okay to have sex in a full committed relationship many live together before marriage.


 
Yeah, that is a problem with alot of single Christians. It is VERY rampant in some churches and a big problem that is accepted. 

But don't they have pills for that stuff? Does she believe that God can heal?


----------



## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 1, 2009)

HeShotMeBangBang said:


> it seems that when you're a christian it wards off the men anyways, so I won't be having sex for a very long time. But in the back of my head I think what guy would stick around that long and wait? We'll see cuz right now I'm not in the position to marry.
> I can't see marrying an option for the next 12-15 years...


 
Its tough but the right guy will stick around...
that doesn't really speak for all the lonely nights... argh...
but I think God proves to be comforting at all times, even though the world we are in is so difficult...


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## Netta1 (Aug 2, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> [/COLOR][/B]
> *I wanted to say that I had a dream about this forum. And it something that The Holy Spirit was trying to explain to me but there is a certain spirit that comes and goes on this forum and dictates what kind of topics are brought up, what we speak about, who even comes on this forum.*



Whats that you say? After a few post... the "spirit" here can be easily discerned...here are a few...

1. The spirit of religion
2. The spirit of witchcraft i.e. control
3. The spirit of arrogance
4. The spirit of the false prophet


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## Leife (Aug 2, 2009)

She is praying about it.  It's very difficult as they have been married for only18 months and she married at 39 years old...  God is good. 



chicacanella said:


> Yeah, that is a problem with alot of single Christians. It is VERY rampant in some churches and a big problem that is accepted.
> 
> But don't they have pills for that stuff? Does she believe that God can heal?


----------



## jwhitley6 (Aug 2, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> And this is definitely one case in which historical perspective is incredibly important. Cases of incest were obviously different than the "dating" scene, which was non-existant. Righteous people didn't date, they neither held hands. Ultra-orthodox Jews today do NOT touch the opposite sex, period. This was also then. So, a woman and man betrothed to each other, remaining righteous, did not touch, no kisses, hand-holding...nothing. They were also chaperoned.
> 
> We obviously do not live in the Middle-east today and modern dating is just that, modern. It didn't exist in the past. There is so much for us to try and figure out...what is righteous living in this culture we live in now. Timely topic.
> 
> ...


 
Hi GV...regarding the bolded, if they "remained righteous" during the courtship would make it possible for him not to know about his ED?  What if he and his fiance were abstaining nor did he masterbate?  That's a whole 'nother topic.  I'm sure there are women who may be frigid and not know if they've never "gone there".  We live in a human body that we should know and respect.  Our bodies have natural functions and sex is one them.  I know how my heart, lungs, and digestive tract work...it's not taboo to discuss these issue openly.  Why is sex so different.  I think so many couples have sexual issues in their marriages because they fail to discuss these things because it's "sinful"...Jesus delivered us from sin and shame yet we hide from each other behind our fig leafs...

To answer the OP's question, which I think is more than reasonable, I think that depending on the couple, it's okay to cuddle while clothed.  What's wrong with taking a nap together if you are both physically and spiritually mature enough to respect your boundaries?  Honestly, I would not want a man that could not resist molesting me just because we're close to each other...could he resist other women if the temptation arose??  I do believe grinding and genital contact is pushing it, though.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 2, 2009)

Spirit on the forum...why couldn't it just be attributed to preference of discussion regarding a subject?  Those other topics that get few responses...I can guarantee you...people have nothing to add but they are reading, praying, listening and learning in respect.   We're kinda acting like sex is taboo.  Sex is not dirty and to talk about the specifics in the way we have on here is not at all out of line.  But then again, that "spirit" of puritanism still remains in this culture.

I just wish that accusations alluding to deceiver, satanist, non-christian infiltrator...whatever....would not fly around here.  Just because it's a topic folks flock to doesn't mean there's some demon wreaking havoc on the saints.  Of course, according to some, I'm not even one of you...and that's okay...I'm one of Tunkashila's, Elohay, Yeowah.  Must be my horse spirit. erplexed   Thinking that one can toss remarks above the spiritual radar of a person just speaks volumes.  But silence is golden.  

Human beings are sexual and it's second nature to be attracted to anything dealing with it, even christian discussion.  I just hate the underhanded comments that somebody is "evil" because this forum is not currently being directed per the status quo.  That is a blow below the belt that cannot be justified because feelings are being ruffled up.  Then the tag-teaming on the RT thread as though no one notices.  That's an auto-conversation.  We cannot tag-team with G-d, including ME.  I'll be the first to admit it.

And private revelation should be taken up with the church elders for all to know, witness, discuss and determine  if it is in fact true.  It can be a dangerous thing and I know this from personal experience with people.

But can we get back to the subject?  If I'm with my man, I want to gallop that horse off into the distance.  But I cannot.  Do I allow any kind of fondling?  What is fondling?  How far does it go?  Is it considered petting....heavy petting?

No breast touching
No groin contact whatsoever
No tongues anywhere
Do not grab my butt
And thighs are incredibly sensual...as in "accidentally" brushing thighs while seated together...that can lead to the bedroom in my book.
Even footsies is sensual and requires either someone seated in your lap, or reclining position on a sofa...Danger Danger Will!


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## OhmyKimB (Aug 2, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> The bible says it is good for a man not to touch a woman and oh how right they are....
> 
> "Love" is awakened very easily, its best not to touch each other at all. Especially, if your really attracted to the person. Caring for someone makes it feel impossible not to want to love them up.
> 
> Sigh...I need to go pray.


 
I just have to agree with the very easily part....no I agree wholeheartedly with the whole thing....the go pray also


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## OhmyKimB (Aug 2, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I don't think that it was a Christian who did it.
> 
> "We" know right from wrong. And I can't get past the feeling that this topic is a 'set-up' . *Please forgive me if I'm wrong. But 'think' about it. Why such a big deal about a Christian's sex life? Why are we under a microscope as weird specimens? *


 
Shimmie I don't know your age or much about your personal life.

But I've just turned 23 and besides all of my friends who sometimes I feel are closer to God then I am. And even in a personal situation (where I've been told the future outcome) and I'm seperate although together, and this is a issue that is very much being dealt with...among other things. But it may feel like a set up to you but it's blessing me very much, and this whole thread is helping to be the wisdom in the foundation that God is building  in me. And it's helping to prove a couple of points I was making but felt I had no true back up in the situation. I know that maybe not for you or other members on this board...but for at least the ppl in my fam, or that I deal with...blessed or not...grew up with God or not we are all finding that being a Christian and being 20-24 is REALLY hard for us. A couple of us grew up sheltered with only God, went into the world and know we don't want to be there, but then besides scripture and God, why wouldn't he use other believers to help inspire and grant wisdom for one another?

Same as my friends who haven't grown up that way but are trying to change. Set up or not this does help raise questions and even force others to to turn to God to gain even more of his wisdom and understanding. So to you it may be weird and unneccessary but looking around at my friends at least. Especially this valley I'm in. This is helping a lot of things. Just as many other things that you and others post. To me you never really know when God is using something you feel is stupid or unneccessary to bless another person.


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## OhmyKimB (Aug 2, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I *can't believe the mess that's going on with folks. Sex is a game of 'anything' with 'anyone' goes. That's just plain crazy. *


 
But as a believer we each have our own way to God,and we each go through different stuggles. Just because one person can stay on the road doesn't mean that another doesn't have ADD and saw something shiny.

It's not always anything goes. So I just feel like that takes away from teaching anyone anything. It is statments like this that sometimes makes someone feel bad for the mistakes that they are already paying for.


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## OhmyKimB (Aug 2, 2009)

lamaravilla said:


> It appears that some people are getting defensive and I am not really sure why. I believe it is a valid question and see nothing wrong with it being asked. As far as why it is such a big deal? Well Christians are expected to adhere to certain behavior and standards. And when others see someone who identifies them self as a Christian yet partakes in behavior that seem to be contradictory it opens the door to these questions. But beyond that this is about having an open and honest dialogue about what is acceptable and what isn't in a relationship between a man and woman who are in a relationship but not yet married.
> 
> There are many other things that I would like to express but I don't see the point, as I will just be attacked and judged and I don't feel like having my faith questioned today nor do I feel like dealing with others opinions of me and my lifestyle as a Christian.
> 
> ...


 
We never know what may help someone with a struggle. And what issues what is faced with in life. At any point in life someone may come to Christ and this may be a thread that another person shows them to give them some wisdom and insight.


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## OhmyKimB (Aug 2, 2009)

I feel like this thread is a blessing because even just recently my pastor asked for all the young peoples attention and annouced. Sex is good...when you married. He talked for a mintue or two but I think that it would have been better if we had an issues forum with some of the adults and young adults in my church. To help advise and teach us different things about our actions that we don't or have not learned from our parent's. Many of us see a lot of what happens in the world, and it is a struggle at times, but even despite the arguing I do apperciate all the insight and those who have shared verses and brought understanding with those verses also. No matter how long you've been with Christ there is a new trial that you will face each day.

Growing up in God is one thing, however being with and in God is another. And to shed the world off you is sometimes a process for different people. I notice that it seems like I'm part of a why generation. We all look for a bit a knowledge in what we are doing. Especially when you are mocked. And this come from someone mocked, at church, inside a christian school, and at work. To look for understanding is not bad when the whole world and even other "christians" are laughing at you and you must fight your own human tencdancies.


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## yodie (Aug 2, 2009)

I can honestly understand why men and women in the bible got married so young.  I even understand arranged marriages.  It's hard being "grown" and trying to maintain myself, which I only do by the grace of God. Thank the Lord.

I didn't vote on any of the choices simply because one thing really does lead to another.  When and if I were to "slip" sexually, I risk losing my authority, covering, anointing and I've learned that only character can keep me where God's anointing takes me.  I've gone there and it's left me with heartache, heartbreak, etc.


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## Shimmie (Aug 2, 2009)

BeyondBlessed said:


> But as a believer we each have our own way to God,and we each go through different stuggles. Just because one person can stay on the road doesn't mean that another doesn't have ADD and saw something shiny.
> 
> It's not always anything goes. So I just feel like that takes away from teaching anyone anything. It is statments like this that sometimes makes someone feel bad for the mistakes that they are already paying for.


Don't Sweetheart, please don't take my posts in this thread out of context.  There's more going on beneath the surface and within that you are obviously not aware of.  

Let me be clear on what you quoted by me.

In the world we live in sex is not respected as God so intended.  And it IS anything goes.  Adultery, Swinging, homosexuality, beastiality, and whatever folks deem to be okay and what they feel that they can do without conscience.   

Therefore it IS crazy and it does not make sense.   

NOW I did not say that Christians should not have a discussion regarding sex.  Let me be clear.  The problem that I have with this thread is as follows:

1.  It was originated by a non Christian
2.  The poll selections are offensive and should not be applied to Christians. 
3.  It 'appeared' that the sex lives of Christians were being viewed as under a microscope; social experiment; mockery of our Christian values. (i.e. Let's see just how far their Christian ethics go with sex).  As you can see, the poll has the offensive issues checked off as Christian sexual behaviour.  To me, that's an afront to God to be in public display.

I do not have a problem discussing life's issues (which includes sex); however if anyone as a Christian is depending upon a thread to get them through their sexual struggles then they are in for a huge disappointment.   One should know that the way through a struggle is by getting closer to God and a thread is not going to take them there.  This thread is not the "Cross", Jesus is.  

As for everyone 'has his own way to God', there's only ONE way.  And tomorrow is promised to no one.   

As for people's feelings, I spend my life uplifting and encouraging people from all walks of life everyday and I do this from my heart.  Please do not ever accuse me of hurting anyone ever again, that has never been my intent and it never will be.  

There are times when the truth will hurt.    People have said hurtful things to me almost everyday in one form or another.  From a nasty cashier, to a disagreeable person on the phone and most definitely in this forum.   I get over it and get it right with God.   It's God who rules, not man.  

Please be blessed.  :Rose:


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## yodie (Aug 2, 2009)

I started thinking...

All of the choices listed in the poll are in reference to dating or trying someone out.  Dating, although I have done it, DOESN'T exist as it relates to the bible.  There's no such!! Dating, aka, testing out the possibility of a future mate, gives place to many of the choices listed in the poll.  This leads to sin and stepping out of God's will for marriage/sex.  Dating also teaches us that "try 'em and leave 'em" mentality.  I know it's part of our culture, but that's definitely not the way God designed it, which is why people were married (in God's eyes) when they became physical with one another.


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## OhmyKimB (Aug 2, 2009)

Ok I see what you mean Shimmie and by own way I don't mean like there's a back door. I mean that we each have different struggles and storms that we go through which God can and does use to wake us up and show us what we are doing. And he leads us to him so that later we can be a testimony of his goodness and he recieves the glory. Not as in there is a side entrance or a lopehole or the like.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 2, 2009)

yodie said:


> I started thinking...
> 
> All of the choices listed in the poll are in reference to dating or trying someone out.  Dating, although I have done it, DOESN'T exist as it relates to the bible.  There's no such!! Dating, aka, testing out the possibility of a future mate, gives place to many of the choices listed in the poll.  This leads to sin and stepping out of God's will for marriage/sex.  Dating also teaches us that "try 'em and leave 'em" mentality.  I know it's part of our culture, but that's definitely not the way God designed it, which is why people were married (in God's eyes) when they became physical with one another.


Excellent viewpoint!


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## pearlygurl (Aug 2, 2009)

yodie said:


> I started thinking...
> 
> All of the choices listed in the poll are in reference to dating or trying someone out. Dating, although I have done it, DOESN'T exist as it relates to the bible. There's no such!! Dating, aka, testing out the possibility of a future mate, gives place to many of the choices listed in the poll. This leads to sin and stepping out of God's will for marriage/sex. Dating also teaches us that "try 'em and leave 'em" mentality. I know it's part of our culture, but that's definitely not the way God designed it, which is why people were married (in God's eyes) when they became physical with one another.


 
IMO I think the word dating gets a bad rap.


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## Bunny77 (Aug 2, 2009)

yodie said:


> I started thinking...
> 
> All of the choices listed in the poll are in reference to dating or trying someone out.  Dating, although I have done it, DOESN'T exist as it relates to the bible.  There's no such!! Dating, aka, testing out the possibility of a future mate, gives place to many of the choices listed in the poll.  This leads to sin and stepping out of God's will for marriage/sex.  Dating also teaches us that "try 'em and leave 'em" mentality.  I know it's part of our culture, but that's definitely not the way God designed it, which is why people were married (in God's eyes) when they became physical with one another.



Which is why I believe that churches/church members need to take a more active role in facilitating the courtship process among single believers.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 2, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Which is why I believe that churches/church members need to take a more active role in facilitating the courtship process among single believers.


I do get a chance to see many churches who are taking active roles to help facilitate different groups/ministries for single believers.  Dh and I both teach married couples but also we work with those who are looking forward to being married.  It's a dynamic ministry which keeps us on our toes

I thank the Lord for the ministries that do this though.  Not too many ministries do.


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## Shimmie (Aug 2, 2009)

BeyondBlessed said:


> Ok I see what you mean Shimmie and by own way I don't mean like there's a back door. I mean that we each have different struggles and storms that we go through which God can and does use to wake us up and show us what we are doing. And he leads us to him so that later we can be a testimony of his goodness and he recieves the glory. Not as in there is a side entrance or a lopehole or the like.


 
  It's okay BeyondBlessed and I still confess that your blessings are far above and beyond you could ever ask or think.   I  apologize for any misunderstandings.  

The moment I read the post that impuned and diparaged the integrity of our Christianity Forum by stating it was like Jerry Springer, that's when I saw this thread as a 'set-up'.   My discourse is not about the discussion or the 'said' need for it, but that it wasn't being respected as a discussion among Christians, but as the degrading and low standards and impurity of sex that Jerry Springer has made millions upon.  

I realized with that comment of disrepect for our Christianity Formum, that this thread was a 'spectator vehicle' to see just who "Christian' would check off what on the poll and who would defend what Christians know to be non-permissive. 

To 'you' I apologize and only to those who have a sincere struggle with this issue.  My heart and prayers are with you and I do understand that it is a struggle, as you are human.   But I do not apologize to those whose want a free pass to continue their agenda nor to those who do not respect our Christianity Forum and for Christians and our values in the Lord Jesus Christ.  

You have the Victory in this.  We all do and I can say for a certainity, that the rewards of Virtue are without regret.   The pain to abstain have no comparison to the joy of the rewards for doing so.   We are not of this world; we 'own' it.  

To God be the Glory, forever and ever... Amen.  :Rose:


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## honeyflaava (Aug 2, 2009)

yodie said:


> I started thinking...
> 
> All of the choices listed in the poll are in reference to dating or trying someone out.  Dating, although I have done it, DOESN'T exist as it relates to the bible.  There's no such!! Dating, aka, testing out the possibility of a future mate, gives place to many of the choices listed in the poll.  This leads to sin and stepping out of God's will for marriage/sex.  Dating also teaches us that "try 'em and leave 'em" mentality.  I know it's part of our culture, but that's definitely not the way God designed it, which is why people were married (in God's eyes) when they became physical with one another.




 [FONT=&quot]Excellent post Yodie! I agree with everything that you stated. Dating is not of God, but rather of this world. In addition to the “try ‘em and leave ‘em” mentality that you mentioned, dating also teaches people to practice marriage and divorce. The same emotions that a married couple experience during a divorce, are the very same emotions that people who date experience when a relationship ends. God hates divorce, and it is not His will for us to experience the heartache and damaged emotions that are associated with relationships and break ups. Plus nowhere in the Bible do we read about people dating or even see the terms 'boyfriend/girlfriend' which are also of this world. We only see courtship and the titles of husband and wife. IMO, Christians who understand God's purpose and plan for marriage will not date, they will court. And there is a huge difference in the two…[/FONT]


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## Bunny77 (Aug 2, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I do get a chance to see many churches who are taking active roles to help facilitate different groups/ministries for single believers.  Dh and I both teach married couples but also we work with those who are looking forward to being married.  It's a dynamic ministry which keeps us on our toes
> 
> I thank the Lord for the ministries that do this though.  Not too many ministries do.



I think this is great!    I'm trying to find something like this... the ones I know do premarital counseling, which is good, but something even before you are involved in a relationship would be awesome. I'd love to see more of that.


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## Shimmie (Aug 2, 2009)

Regarding the post which said it wasn't wrong to lie down or sleep with clothes on...   

Okay!      Okay!     Yeah... Okay!   

Trust me.... He (the man) has something movin'........ due South.  Men operate like that and while lying there 'the woman' calls it cuddling.   But *HE's* having huge fireworks going off in his brain and in his testoterone.  

Men are wired like that.  And although he may sincerely and truly have the 'intent' to do nothing... he's thinking about it       Big Time!  And he will move towards it just to see if it will happen.  ESPECIALLY with clothes on.   

And for those who do this, please don't try and say different.  Because it's called 'playing the edge'.  Let's see if we can do this, since we can't do that.  But eventually, you either have or you will end up doing just 'that'.  

It's called 'normal'; that's how you were made.  You were made to be drawn to one another.  However, if you're not married ...   

"We've" been watching too many of Tyler Perry's love stories.    I know I have and I love them.   

_"Orlando, Orlando...... Ask me again.  Ask me to marry you.  Ask me again.  I love you...."    _

_:Selah:  :Rose:_


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 2, 2009)

..................


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 2, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Regarding the post which said it wasn't wrong to lie down or sleep with clothes on...
> 
> Okay!      Okay!     Yeah... Okay!
> 
> ...


I love that part of the movie too!

One thing too is that since the man is known as the "giver" and the woman as the "receiver" it causes conflict when they are locked in a kiss or intertwined in an embrace, especially if laying down.  It can happen to anyone this is why we must be wise as serpents.  Using wisdom will always keep you from making wrong decisions


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## Shimmie (Aug 3, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I love that part of the movie too!
> 
> One thing too is that since the man is known as the "giver" and the woman as the "receiver" it causes conflict when they are locked in a kiss or intertwined in an embrace, especially if laying down. It can happen to anyone this is why we must be wise as serpents. Using wisdom will always keep you from making wrong decisions


 
Ummmmm Yeah!    Key Words:  *Lying means we are intertwined with *lying to ourselves...  Intertwined.... Okay!   That's asking for it.  .    

I KNOW this game!   I played so good, I have my son as the grand prize.  

*Another excuse is this:*  "That's between them and God".    

Ummm, no it isn't.  

It's between him and her, because they're so tightly intertwined God can't get in edge-wised.   These bodies become oblivious to God and everything else.  It's flesh yielding to the flesh.  We become magnets unto one another.  It's gonna go further whether we admit it or not.  

This is why God's word says, _"It's better to 'marry' than to burn."_   It does say that, it really does.  

*Just caught another thought:* _But I'm not sure we're getting married._ 

Okay, then why intertwine with someone that one is not sure they are going to marry?   Hmmmmmm.  :scratchch:  

We have too many 'excuses'; more than 'struggles' we have excuses for what 'we' want to do.     I'll raise my hand and be the first to admit it about myself.   I also have way too many excuses than I have struggles with anything in life.  

The flesh wants what it wants...married or single.   But the closer we are to God, the further we move away from what we want in our flesh and we don't lead ourselves into temptation.    Least we 'intertwine'.    

Make the man marry you instead.  He will ...


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 3, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Ummmmm Yeah!    Key Words:  *Lying means we are intertwined with *lying to ourselves...  Intertwined.... Okay!   That's asking for it.  .
> 
> I KNOW this game!   I played so good, I have my son as the grand prize.
> 
> ...


Girl, I keep saying that I'm waiting on that book to come out.....  Pretty please?

Have a wonderful sleep, sis!


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## chicacanella (Aug 3, 2009)

Netta1 said:


> Whats that you say? After a few post... the "spirit" here can be easily discerned...here are a few...
> 
> 1. The spirit of religion
> 2. The spirit of witchcraft i.e. control
> ...


 
*Well, I'll say this first. Even if there were no posts...The Holy Spirit is able to give revelation about things even before they happen. He does this with me a lot. I don't choose the revelations but he tells me months and even years before they happen and it happens to a tee'. Sometimes, he gives me names of people and the names may even be different names, like Bonqueishabut I will meet the people and talk to them. Sometimes, I forget that he's told me many months ago but he'll remind me of the revelation. It just happened the other day as he told me not to talk to my mom about something but I didn't listen, as many of us sometimes don't take the time to hear what The Holy Spirit is saying. Well, I did that yesterday and boy did I pay for it. The exact same thing he told me not to talk about I did.*

*Okay, so this is the thing about this forum and God showed it to me in a dream. There is something, kind of like a force that drives certain people to come over and also directs the posts or the attitude of the forum. I say force but I mean something evil. As you can see in my post to Shimmie, I did not say that this was what was going on with this thread because I haven't really prayed on it and been given any revelations...if The Holy Spirit has to this specific thread...then God forgive me cause' I haven't been listening. *

*But anyhow, it's definitely something that makes this forum rise and recede.*



Leife said:


> She is praying about it. It's very difficult as they have been married for only18 months and she married at 39 years old... God is good.


 
*Well, that's good...cause' what married couple wants to miss out on sex?  *

*Okay, now what about pills? I see those ED commercials all the time.*



GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Spirit on the forum...why couldn't it just be attributed to preference of discussion regarding a subject? Those other topics that get few responses...I can guarantee you...people have nothing to add but they are reading, praying, listening and learning in respect. We're kinda acting like sex is taboo. Sex is not dirty and to talk about the specifics in the way we have on here is not at all out of line. But then again, that "spirit" of puritanism still remains in this culture.
> 
> I just wish that accusations alluding to deceiver, satanist, non-christian infiltrator...whatever....would not fly around here. Just because it's a topic folks flock to doesn't mean there's some demon wreaking havoc on the saints. Of course, according to some, I'm not even one of you...and that's okay...I'm one of Tunkashila's, Elohay, Yeowah. Must be my horse spirit. erplexed Thinking that one can toss remarks above the spiritual radar of a person just speaks volumes. But silence is golden.
> 
> ...


 
*Okay, I'm not sure if you were speaking to me but anyhow...I'm just giving a revelation of what God gave me. When I speak of spirits, I'm not talking about this thread specifically cause' I haven't prayed about this but as a forum...yes...there are definitely spirits that give a rise and fall to how many people come on the forum, what they say, etc, etc, etc.*

*Actually, after I think about it and even if The Holy Spirit hadn't shown me...it's not far fetched. Now GN, you say that people are reading and praying, listening and learning but not every person that comes to this forum wants to do that. Some people may not even know that spirits are involved as in the dream, I saw that many were sort of oblivous to what was happening.*


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## OhmyKimB (Aug 3, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> *Well, I'll say this first. Even if there were no posts...The Holy Spirit is able to give revelation about things even before they happen. He does this with me a lot. I don't choose the revelations but he tells me months and even years before they happen and it happens to a tee'. Sometimes, he gives me names of people and the names may even be different names, like Bonqueishabut I will meet the people and talk to them. Sometimes, I forget that he's told me many months ago but he'll remind me of the revelation. It just happened the other day as he told me not to talk to my mom about something but I didn't listen, as many of us sometimes don't take the time to hear what The Holy Spirit is saying. Well, I did that yesterday and boy did I pay for it. The exact same thing he told me not to talk about I did.*


 


I agree...and Chica u know...same thing happens to me. I was explaining to a friend sometimes it's better when you don't know. Especially as you get closer to the relevation.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 3, 2009)

Um... 
Its getting strange in here lol.


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## aribell (Aug 3, 2009)

I kinda want to multi-quote the whole thread, but can't really do that, lol.

I have to say that when I first read the op, it did remind me of the attitude that some people have on the forum that says "Let's see just how hypocritical these 'Christians' are."  Now I'm not at all saying that that was the op's intent, but that attitude definitely comes out a lot here.

It's a good and valid question, but a poll isn't going to provide the answer since what individual Christians choose to do doesn't matter at all.  What any individual person who says they know and follow Christ chooses to do or not do reflects only their choices and understanding of God's commands, and not "necessarily" what God has actually commanded.

Like other people have said, dating wasn't around in biblical times, and so there isn't a discussion of it (we like to forget about Song of Solomon, though), but even without clear, explicit lines drawn I think we can all find the truth about it if we're honest with ourselves about what our real motives and intentions are in doing a certain act.  There's a big difference between saying, "Oh, when we cuddle, makeout, whatever, it's just us being physically affectionate, it's nothing sexual at all."  And saying, "How mcuh can I indulge my sexual desires and desire to be with this person without going over X line?"

As long as we're asking the "How far is too far?" question, we're going to set ourselves up to fail.  We've gone "too far" when either we or the person we're with starts getting sexually aroused.

Also, the apostle Paul tells us what we are supposed to do to deal with strong sexual desire: Get married!  In the church today we're focusing so much on controlling this and that, not going here, not touching there, etc., that we're trying to set a higher sexual standard for ourselves that the Lord sets for us.  He didn't say, "Oh, you should be strong enough to deal with it."  He said get married.  

I know that plenty of people desire to be married but aren't, but I really feel that this is a cultural problem and that if the Church as a whole really wanted to take sexual immorality seriously it would be encouraging and helping young people to marry rather than being just like the world and saying that they should wait until after they've done this, that, or the other.

I was all about listening to this advice from pastors, advisors, parents, etc. until I realized that all but one had led active sexual lives up until they were married.  And the one who actually did abstain didn't say to wait, only to not be anxious about it.  As far as the others, one pastor had a 7 year relationship with a woman, then within a year of breaking up with her met his current wife whom he married quickly.  Another pastor and her husband had been engaged for years and admitted to having been sexually intimate.  A lay Christian man also said to wait, but had been married at 18, divorced and then married again.  All that to say that people in the church are encouraging people to wait or to exercise "self control" when their own lives show how difficult it is and that they didn't manage it themselves.

Unfortunately, the best answer came from a nonbeliever, a man who, when I told him I was abstaining said, "Wow, if I believed that, I would've gotten married when I was 18."  That's it.  I believe that one of the main things you can do to fight sexual immorality (_if it is that much of a struggle_) is to _actively _pursue marriage as the Lord intended.


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## Netta1 (Aug 3, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> *Okay, so this is the thing about this forum and God showed it to me in a dream. There is something, kind of like a force that drives certain people to come over and also directs the posts or the attitude of the forum. I say force but I mean something evil. As you can see in my post to Shimmie, I did not say that this was what was going on with this thread because I haven't really prayed on it and been given any revelations...if The Holy Spirit has to this specific thread...then God forgive me cause' I haven't been listening. *
> 
> *But anyhow, it's definitely something that makes this forum rise and recede.*




I understood when you orginally posted....so I would have to say that thus far you are on the money. I (my own thoughts) don't think its a specific thread either..but thats about all I can say here.  Keep up the good work, God reveals and reveals :0). 




music-bnatural-smile said:


> Um...
> Its getting strange in here lol.



LOL, music!


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## Shimmie (Aug 3, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> I kinda want to multi-quote the whole thread, but can't really do that, lol.
> 
> *I have to say that when I first read the op, it did remind me of the attitude that some people have on the forum that says "Let's see just how hypocritical these 'Christians' are." Now I'm not at all saying that that was the op's intent, but that attitude definitely comes out a lot here.*
> 
> ...


Thank you... your entire post is on point.


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## discobiscuits (Aug 7, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm this close.... this close to saying something that's been long overdue to this girl's comments about this Forum and the sincerity of the people on it.
> 
> This close ! ! !



Ditto. 

Hi Shimmie *waves*


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## topsyturvy86 (Aug 7, 2009)

Hi 1star!  Haven't seen u on here in a while ... where've u been??


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## pebbles (Aug 7, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> this poll is a bit personal??? lol be careful with ur answers ladies I'm nervous for EVERYONE lol
> subscribing... can't wait...
> *Christian forum is like... Jerry Springer lol*



My LORD!!! I can't believe what I'm seeing. 

I'm sorry, but this sort of thing is precisely why I've been so turned off by the posts in this forum lately. I just can't believe what I'm seeing!  

The Christianity forum is for *fellowship *and_* prayer*_. It's not a game, and it sure isn't supposed to be a Jerry Springer show! 

Ladies, ask yourselves; where is GOD's glory in all of this? Seriously, why are we here?

Please, review the CF rules before posting. I thought they were pretty clear as to what we want to see here and what we would prefer happens somewhere else. If the rules are ambiguous in any way, let me know, and I'll be sure to update them so that they are more clear. 

Thread closed.


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