# What REALLY Sends Someone to HELL?



## cocoberry10 (Apr 12, 2008)

Hello Ladies:

I was just thinking about this.  I know in church, they teach that admitting that you are a sinner and that Jesus Christ is Lord is necessary to "enter the narrow gates of Heaven."

My question is.......what really sends someone to Hell? (I ask this hoping that no one goes to Hell, but realizing that it is probably a real place).

Is it not living out God's will for your life?

Is it sin alone? (I figure not, b/c we are all human, therefore, we all sin)

Is it something else?  

Hope someone will have insight!


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## PaperClip (Apr 12, 2008)

If I had to narrow it down, I would say it's a toss up between DISOBEDIENCE and SERVING OTHER GODS/IDOLATRY.


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## HeChangedMyName (Apr 12, 2008)

I would say that not believing in Jesus and wanting in your heart to be in God's presence is the only way to get a one way ticket to Hell.  The reason I say that is because the most horrible person could repent and accept Jesus at the very last milli-second of their life and God would accept them.  If you die not wanting to see God and then in the second coming, you still don't believe, then you will probably go to hell.  Even the most non-believing person alive, will still have an opportunity to accept Jesus, just as it is layed out in the Book of Revelation.


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## cocoberry10 (Apr 12, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> If I had to narrow it down, I would say it's a toss up between DISOBEDIENCE and SERVING OTHER GODS/IDOLATRY.


 
Interesting, could you expound???

Looking for more answers!


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## PaperClip (Apr 12, 2008)

cocoberry10 said:


> Interesting, could you expound???
> 
> Looking for more answers!


 
Disobedience: start with the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20). That pretty much covers everything that a Christian should or should not do/conduct him/herself.
1And God spake all these words, saying,


 2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 

 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ("gods" of ANY KIND: animal, vegetable, or mineral)

 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. (IDOLATRY)

 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 

 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 

 7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. (BLASPHEMY)

 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (???? there's a modern-day principle but I'm not exactly sure what the link is)

 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 

 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 

 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 

 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. (RESPECT PARENTS/PROPER AUTHORITY)

 13Thou shalt not kill. (MURDER...shedding of INNOCENT blood)

 14Thou shalt not commit adultery. (incl. FORNICATION of any kind)

 15Thou shalt not steal. (self explanatory)

 16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. (LIE/DECEIT)
  17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (COVET/JEALOUSY/ENVY)​ 
My second point about idolatry is that before the Lord returns, the Gospel of Jesus Christ shall be preached and heard to every human thing on the planet so that they will have the opportunity to CHOOSE JESUS CHRIST as their LORD and SAVIOR (GOD) before He returns (Matthew 24:14: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."). 

So as the first commandment says: "thou shalt have no other gods before me". If you don't choose Jesus as your Lord and Savior God, then you have automatically chosen ANOTHER God. That's a form of idolatry. 

I recognize that this will not go over well with atheists and agnostics and LOA'ers and like kind.


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## cocoberry10 (Apr 12, 2008)

Thanks RR! Bumping for more responses!


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 12, 2008)

There is no way for us to know who is going to heaven and who is going to hell and it is not for us to know. We can't judge an individuals life and say he isn't going to heaven because there's no way to know his situation and it's not for us to assume (Romans 10:6-7)
  Everyone is born bound for hell (we are born in sin shaped in iniquity) separated from God forever because we are offensive to Him because of our sins ( your righteousness is but a filthy rag [used sanitary napkin] to me).Children 12 and under are not accountable for their sins and are not at risk of going to hell(13 and under for orphans) regardless of religious beliefs or lack thereof. They become accountable for their own sins at those ages (ex. Bar mitvahs and Bat mitvahs can't think of the scriptual reference right now). The Gospel has to be preached to every individual and the free gift of salvation is offered and is ours to accept or reject (He has given unto EVERY man the measure of faith to believe upon Him) If accepted salvation is guaranteed (anyone who cals on the name of the Lord shall be saved). If the gospel has not been preached to the individual they are judge differently than one who has rejected Him (All of Romans 10 and Romans 10:14-15) There are other scriptures but it's late and I can't think right now


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## metamorfhosis (Apr 13, 2008)

Here are some bible verses to keep in mind:

*Matthew 7:20-23 (New King James Version)*

20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 

*I Never Knew You*

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


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## cocoberry10 (Apr 13, 2008)

Thanks for the responses ladies. I do agree with you MS Honey. I definitely don't think we can know who is going to heaven or hell, but I wanted to get an understanding of what things seem to push someone there!


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## discobiscuits (Apr 14, 2008)

*

Read II Peter Chapter 2. 

IMO, simply put - sin is what gives us our boarding ticket to hell. (Paraphrased) 2 Peter 2 says that it was sin that caused the angels to be sent to hell and stay till judgment day. Sin, without repentance, is what does it (IMO). The bible states that in the end (saved & unsaved, human & angel), every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord and it also states that now, currently, in this age, that even some of those who live and have called Jesus' name will be turned away.  MSHONEY and metamorfhosis gave the scriptures already.

Sin is a heart condition: the state of one's heart. Is it for God and righteousness or not? Sin-repentance = death & hell

*


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 14, 2008)

I think there are so many variables that decide who goes and who doesn't I'm glad I can't know. I wish no one would ever have to go but it's a choice. We can't know who will and will not go but we can be assured of this: God is good and merciful. He understands us and knows our weaknesses. No one goes to hell without the offer of salvation. God gives us the opportunity to go to heaven instead of hell with a simple, clear offer of salvation that we are fully aware that we are receiving and have the offer to accept or reject. Some reject by resistance, "I don't want to give up this or that I rather have so and so instead of salvation", they just don't want to give up the world. He gives the offer through someone who he has sent or He offers it directly Himself like He did with Paul on the Damascus road.


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## MoonstoneBlu (Apr 14, 2008)

It's ultimately a person's sins -sin nature- that will take them to hell as the wages (penalty) of sin is (spiritual) death.  So as the bible says, we have all fallen short of the glory of God and cannot be pleasing in His sight without accepting His gift of salvation by grace through faith.  An unregenerate man cannot enter heaven, like Jesus said, you must be born again.  

It takes repentance and remission of sins to enter heaven and remission of sins is available only through Jesus Christ, whose blood continually cleanses us from all unrighteousness (summed up clearly in 1 John 1:5-9, particularly in the Amplified).


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## infojunkie (Apr 14, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> I would say that not believing in Jesus and wanting in your heart to be in God's presence is the only way to get a one way ticket to Hell. The reason I say that is because the most horrible person could repent and accept Jesus at the very last milli-second of their life and God would accept them. If you die not wanting to see God and then in the second coming, you still don't believe, then you will probably go to hell. Even the most non-believing person alive, will still have an opportunity to accept Jesus, just as it is layed out in the Book of Revelation.


 

Ditto.


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## Nice & Wavy (Apr 14, 2008)

For God desires that all come unto repentance and NO ONE to perish!

The next question should be:  _*What are you doing to lead people to Christ so that they don't find themselves separated from God for eternity?*_


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## cocoberry10 (Apr 14, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> For God desires that all come unto repentance and NO ONE to perish!
> 
> The next question should be: _*What are you doing to lead people to Christ so that they don't find themselves separated from God for eternity?*_


 
This is a very good question!


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## kweenameena (Apr 21, 2008)

bumping.............great thread


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## justsimply (Apr 22, 2008)

I don't think it's about what you can do to go to hell, but what you have to do to go to heaven. So it's more like what you DON"T do that sends you to hell. Romans 10:9 tells us what is required to get to heaven. Thank God we don't have to worry about if we're good enough. 

I think that obedience and how we live our life isn't about trying to get to get to heaven or avoid going to hell, but rather it is a manifestation of our gratefulness, reverence and love for God. We tend to want to please those we love and respect. 

IMO there is nothing that we can do that seals our fate one way or the other, other than our beliefs and confession. We could never be good enough of ourselves to avoid hell.


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## Caramela (Apr 22, 2008)

Disobedience to the will of God as outlined and detailed in the Bible.


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 23, 2008)

It is impossible for anyone to keep the commandments. That's why the bible says that WHEN we sin not IF we sin we have an advocate in Jesus. He is the only one who has been able to do it. If it were possible for us to keep the commandments then Jesus wouldn't have had to die as a sacrifice for our sins. He is our Advocate(Lawyer) and intercedes on our behalf to God our Father for the remission of our sins.


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## Evolving78 (Apr 23, 2008)

I'm going to just put this out there and I might sound silly, but I'm being open and honest.
How does one truly repent?  I mean there are things that I have asked for God to forgive me for and yet I still do them.  Everytime I go to church and they do alter call stating if you feel you are not right with God, come foward, I feel that I have to go up there.  I'm tired of going up.  I have been baptisted twice, I have confessed with my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord over and over.  How do I know that I'm truly saved?  Do I have to read my bible everyday?  Do I have to go to church every Sun and become active in a ministry?  Do I have to volunteer and give whenever possible?  Do I have to tithe every paycheck?  How many times to I have to pray?  I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm confused about my christian walk?  That whole faith without works is really getting to me.  I feel like I have to walk on eggshells in order to be right with God.  I think this is what caused me to backslide before.  It seems like someone can follow all of the commandments, but still not be right with Jesus.  How do I know if my heart is right when I have bad thoughts sometimes?  I hope someone can respond?  Also, how can you become rightous without being self-rightous and turn people away from Christ?


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 23, 2008)

shortdub78 said:


> I'm going to just put this out there and I might sound silly, but I'm being open and honest.
> How does one truly repent? I mean there are things that I have asked for God to forgive me for and yet I still do them. Everytime I go to church and they do alter call stating if you feel you are not right with God, come foward, I feel that I have to go up there. I'm tired of going up. I have been baptisted twice, I have confessed with my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord over and over. How do I know that I'm truly saved? Do I have to read my bible everyday? Do I have to go to church every Sun and become active in a ministry? Do I have to volunteer and give whenever possible? Do I have to tithe every paycheck? How many times to I have to pray? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm confused about my christian walk? That whole faith without works is really getting to me. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells in order to be right with God. I think this is what caused me to backslide before. It seems like someone can follow all of the commandments, but still not be right with Jesus. How do I know if my heart is right when I have bad thoughts sometimes? I hope someone can respond? Also, how can you become rightous without being self-rightous and turn people away from Christ?


 
 To receive salvation and go to heaven all that is required of you is to except the free gift of salvation from Jesus by asking Him to forgive you of your sins and and acknowledging and excepting Him as your Lord and Savior. You do that you are saved. In order to be a *converted *Christian you have to change your lifestyle. You can't actively sin (sin and justify your actions disregarding the Holy word of God and turning the Truth into a lie) and have made Jesus the lord of your life. There's one throne and you and He can't both sit in it at the same time. If you've done that you are in a backsliding state. You may have accepted Him as your Savior but not as you Lord. You have to submit yourself to* ALL* of His Word, you (meaning all of us) can't pick and choose what we will obey.
 The Lord says to do now what you know now to do. That means go to church, when you sin repent and ask the Lord to teach you how to not commit that sin again through the washing of the water of His Word, tithe, serve in the ministry that He has called you into, give to the poor etc.
 You know you're right with God when you hate sin and have a desire to change. You are going to have to accept the fact that you're saved. If you can't you'll always feel burdened. No one is perfect but you have to ask God to forgive you when you sin AND forgive yourself then push forward.


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## HeChangedMyName (Apr 23, 2008)

shortdub78 said:


> How do I know that I'm truly saved? Do I have to read my bible everyday? Do I have to go to church every Sun and become active in a ministry? Do I have to volunteer and give whenever possible? Do I have to tithe every paycheck? How many times to I have to pray? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm confused about my christian walk? That whole faith without works is really getting to me. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells in order to be right with God. How do I know if my heart is right when I have bad thoughts sometimes? I hope someone can respond? Also, how can you become rightous without being self-rightous and turn people away from Christ?


 

You know all those things and are saved simply because you believe.  God knows that you can't be perfect and he knows that in your own power, you are powerless against temptation, that is what the Holy Spirit is there for--to help you avoid temtation, it's that voice that says no when your flesh says yes.  The blood of Jesus is what washes away the sins that you have committed.  The world will have you to think that you have to do more in order to be saved.  Just let God work with you at the pace that he knows you can handle.  Being righteous isn't about being fake.  It is about living in and believing in the power of God and letting him take you were he wants you to be and in knowing that he wont have you in any sinful situations.  It's all about submission to his will.  You are saved.  No one on this earth can take that from you.  No amount of volunteership, Bible reading or church attendance can replace or even compare to that.  Just believe and know in your heart that you are saved, and know that God already knows your struggles and ask him specifically to step in and to help you get over those things that you can't seem to get over on your own.  Trust that when you ask him, that he will deliver.  Trust in yourself that you can do it, with the power of the Holy Spirit to back you up.

And remember that it is who you are in your heart when there is no one around that God is interested in.  You can't fool him and there is no need in trying to be more than you can be.  Just be yourself with God and that will help you to be yourself and be righteous at the same time.


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## cocoberry10 (Apr 23, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> It is impossible for anyone to keep the commandments. That's why the bible says that WHEN we sin not IF we sin we have an advocate in Jesus. He is the only one who has been able to do it. If it were possible for us to keep the commandments then Jesus wouldn't have had to die as a sacrifice for our sins. He is our Advocate(Lawyer) and intercedes on our behalf to God our Father for the remission of our sins.


 
I agree with this!


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## Evolving78 (Apr 23, 2008)

Thanks ladies for the responses.  I guess I knew the answers to my questions, but I guess I'm one of those people that feel you have to earn salvation.  I remember being told numerous of times that I need to stop being so hard on myself and that God have already forgiven me.  That is something I need to work on, but I don't know how and I always feel like I let myself and God down (more of myself) when I fall short.  I just want to do better, but feel overwhelmed.  I'm scared to death of Hell and I have had dreams about going to Hell and asking Jesus to please give me another chance.


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## PaperClip (Apr 23, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> *It is impossible for anyone to keep the commandments.* That's why the bible says that WHEN we sin not IF we sin we have an advocate in Jesus. He is the only one who has been able to do it. If it were possible for us to keep the commandments then Jesus wouldn't have had to die as a sacrifice for our sins. He is our Advocate(Lawyer) and intercedes on our behalf to God our Father for the remission of our sins.


 
This may take this thread off on a tangent (my apologies)....

How is it impossible for anyone to keep the commandments? 

The Lord wouldn't ask us to do something that was impossible for us to do, right?


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## metamorfhosis (Apr 23, 2008)

The Bible gives us a lot of information about how to live a life that is pleasing to GOD. We know some actions that will send someone to HELL from scripture but as you know the Judge is JESUS. HE has the final word.

I just wanted to add two points to this thread. The first, is that *GOD looks for a pure heart.  *

*Matthew 5:8 (New International Version)*

8 Blessed are the pure in heart, 
      for they will see God.​
Secondly, *when we repent, we should be sincere.* GOD knows our hearts. So if you are fronting, of course HE knows. I knew a lady who was a compulsive liar. She once lied to get out of working and said that her Grandmother had died. Anyway, she was going to tell another lie and said , "Well I can do it and then repent." Well eh- yeah.... Then that's not true repentance.​ 
*Matthew 4:17 (New International Version)*

17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."​


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 24, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> This may take this thread off on a tangent (my apologies)....
> 
> How is it impossible for anyone to keep the commandments?
> 
> The Lord wouldn't ask us to do something that was impossible for us to do, right?


 He didn't expect us to be able to keep the O.T. commandments. He told us to make the sacrifices for an atonement for the commandments we've broken. The commandments are a guide to show us how far our ways are from His ways. He said there is none good no not one. If we coud keep the commandments then we would be counted as good. He says our righteousness is but a filthy rag(used sanitary napkin) to Him. In the N.T. there is but one commandment to keep. That is to love our brother(1John2:3-14).
  No one but Jesus has ever kept all of the commandments. We are born in sin, shaped in iniquity. Jesus was not. The sin nature is passed from the father to the son not the mother. It is in Adam that all men sin not Eve. Jesus had no human father, therefore He had no sin nature and no desire to sin. He wasn't born in sin or shaped in iniquity. He became a human sacrifice for our sins because He is the only one unable to sin.
 1 John 1:8-10; 2:1-2 Says that if we say we have no sin we have tricked and lied to ourselves but if we confess our sins yes is our Advocate with the Father for the forgiveness of our sins.


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## Caramela (Apr 24, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> He didn't expect us to be able to keep the O.T. commandments. He told us to make the sacrifices for an atonement for the commandments we've broken. The commandments are a guide to show us how far our ways are from His ways. He said there is none good no not one. If we coud keep the commandments then we would be counted as good. He says our righteousness is but a filthy rag(used sanitary napkin) to Him. In the N.T. there is but one commandment to keep. That is to love our brother(1John2:3-14).
> No one but Jesus has ever kept all of the commandments. We are born in sin, shaped in iniquity. Jesus was not. The sin nature is passed from the father to the son not the mother. It is in Adam that all men sin not Eve. Jesus had no human father, therefore He had no sin nature and no desire to sin. He wasn't born in sin or shaped in iniquity. He became a human sacrifice for our sins because He is the only one unable to sin.
> 1 John 1:8-10; 2:1-2 Says that if we say we have no sin we have tricked and lied to ourselves but if we confess our sins yes is our Advocate with the Father for the forgiveness of our sins.



So on point! According to the scriptures the 10 commandments in the OT was our "schoolmaster" prior to the teachings of Christ in the NT Galatians 4:24-25. Annnnd in Hebrews it is said that God wanted his laws to be written in our hearts and minds, and not on stone tablet as the 10 commandments were! Hebrews 8: 10


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## Caramela (Apr 24, 2008)

However, clemency belongs to God and we need to leave it there. God offers us grace and mercy as well, and only he will have the ultimate decision.


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## PaperClip (Apr 24, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> He didn't expect us to be able to keep the O.T. commandments. He told us to make the sacrifices for an atonement for the commandments we've broken. The commandments are a guide to show us how far our ways are from His ways. He said there is none good no not one. If we coud keep the commandments then we would be counted as good. He says our righteousness is but a filthy rag(used sanitary napkin) to Him. In the N.T. there is but one commandment to keep. That is to love our brother(1John2:3-14).
> No one but Jesus has ever kept all of the commandments. We are born in sin, shaped in iniquity. Jesus was not. The sin nature is passed from the father to the son not the mother. It is in Adam that all men sin not Eve. Jesus had no human father, therefore He had no sin nature and no desire to sin. He wasn't born in sin or shaped in iniquity. He became a human sacrifice for our sins because He is the only one unable to sin.
> 1 John 1:8-10; 2:1-2 Says that if we say we have no sin we have tricked and lied to ourselves but if we confess our sins yes is our Advocate with the Father for the forgiveness of our sins.


 
I think I'm following you.... It's just that I think that the premise behind your statements are better founded on Adam and Eve's fall in the Garden,  not the establishment of the 10 Commandments.

The atonement rituals were established not because the Lord did not "expect" us to keep His commandments, but in order to position ourselves "rightfully" before Him. It's not a matter of expectation because we have free will. We can "freely choose" not to obey anything or anyone. 

And the Lord knew He had to come and complete the fullness of work that the atonement rituals could not adequately fulfill.


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## poookie (Apr 24, 2008)

what about suicide?  i've always been told that suicide = a one way ticket to Hell.


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 25, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> I think I'm following you.... It's just that I think that the premise behind your statements are better founded on Adam and Eve's fall in the Garden, not the establishment of the 10 Commandments.
> 
> The atonement rituals were established not because the Lord did not "expect" us to keep His commandments, but in order to position ourselves "rightfully" before Him. It's not a matter of expectation because we have free will. We can "freely choose" not to obey anything or anyone.
> 
> And the Lord knew He had to come and complete the fullness of work that the atonement rituals could not adequately fulfill.


 
  I wasn't saying that He didn't expect for us to obey Him. What I'm saying is that He doesn't expect us to be able to keep them all, all of the time. I expect for my children to obey me but I know that they are going to mess up also. I don't think that they are going to do everything I tell them to do all of the time and they don't. That's why I have established consequences for when they disobey me.
 Jesus also repaired the breach between us and the Father through His death, burial and resurrection so that we could have a relationship with Him.


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## Choclatcotton (Apr 26, 2008)

Sin separates from God, because he cannot fellowship a sinful spirit, so Sin is the separator that will send  to hell. _Then said Je sus again unto them," I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, YE CANNOT COME."  John 8:21 KJV_ Christs sacrifice has the power to deliver you from the hold that sin has on you and break its power.


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## Choclatcotton (Apr 26, 2008)

Sin is a WILLFUL transgression of the law. WHat law? Gods laws and boundaries set for the health and happiness of his lovely creations, you. Christ came to break the power of sin so you will not have to say sorry every night on your knees, which is what I used to do until I got real tired and sick of it and I cried out to God for help. I could not help myself to constantly cross his law.


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## AfroKink (Apr 27, 2008)

*"If you want to go to hell, find value and worth in something that God hates and wants to destroy"

You can watch the pastor explain how to go to hell in this video clip of the sermon.  Or you can listen to the full 20mins at p4cm.com.

Lys*


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## pearlygurl (Apr 27, 2008)

poookie said:


> what about suicide?  i've always been told that suicide = a one way ticket to Hell.



I grew up believing that but that's nowhere in the bible.


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## pearlygurl (Apr 27, 2008)

To answer the question I believe the only thing that sends someone to hell is UNBELIEF (not accepting Jesus as your savior).


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## metamorfhosis (Apr 27, 2008)

poookie said:


> what about suicide? i've always been told that suicide = a one way ticket to Hell.


 

I heard someone say that if you are saved and ask for GOD's forgiveness before committing suicide, there is a possibility that HE will forgive you. So since you brought this up poookie, I decided to read a little more about this subject. 

You know this reminds me of Phyllis Hyman. She seemed to be unlucky at love. She had one failed relationship after another. And from what I understand, she didn't love herself, and had low self-esteem. When she deceided to commit suicide, she called her ex-boyfriend up and told him. He said that she was at peace with her decision and was going to hang up on him if he tried to stop her. That beautiful, talented, woman took her own life and I didn't read anything about a relationship with GOD. She seemed to have it all but said that she couldn't live another 46 years like that. It just seems like if she had a relationship with GOD, she wouldn't need the love of a man to validate her; GOD would have been her validation. 




 

If someone is not saved, and commits suicide, then they never knew JESUS and they would go to the hell. However, if someone is saved and commits suicide it is considered murder and it's blasphemy against GOD. 

However, I think this is another subject in which the LORD would have the final call. 

Here is a link for more info----> What is the Christian view of suicide? What does the Bible say about suicide?


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## discobiscuits (Apr 30, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> How is it impossible for anyone to keep the commandments?
> 
> The Lord wouldn't ask us to do something that was impossible for us to do, right?



* I think Romans 7:7-13 sums it up. If people could keep the commandments, then they never would have needed sacrifices for their sins offered to God by the priests. We were all born in sin which preempts humans as a whole from keeping all of the commandments (at least in the OT). 

*


> [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 7:7-13[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." _8_ But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. _9_ Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.  _10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. _ _11_ For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. _12_ So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.  _13_ Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.[/FONT]​


*Jesus also gave instructions to people to "go and sin no more" after he forgave them. I have always believed that ALL believers could do exactly that: go and sin no more once we were born of God's spirit, walking in the newness of life (but I don't see people doing that-sinning no more). This is in the context of the New Testament under grace not the OT under the Law (AKA the 10 commandments).
*


> [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John 5:14[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.[/FONT]​[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John 8:11[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.[/FONT]​


*According to Jesus he said that the greatest commandments are to love God and to love others and they superseded the others because if you do those two, you won't commit any of the other sins the commandments tell you not to do. All of them are done against God or another person. The commandments, for the most part, are a list of SINS that we are not supposed to do. The OT takes up chapter upon chapter of specific punishments for those who are found committing said sins.

*


> [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 7[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]:14[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [/FONT]​[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Mark 12:28-34[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" _29_ "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.  _30_ Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'  _31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."_[/FONT]​


*Additionally there is no commandment on fornication, yet Paul taught on it excessively. The sin of fornication is committed vicariously against God within one's own body which belongs to the Lord through Jesus' sacrifice since he purchased us with his blood. How does that relate to love God and your neighbor? Because if we love God, then we would not sin against him. If we love our neighbors as ourselves, we won't sin against our own bodies which belong to God and we will extend that love to our neighbor, since we would not do to them what we would not do to ourselves IF we loved God and ourselves and our neighbor.
*


> [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 John [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:9[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.[/FONT]​


*So I again say, sin (without repentance) is what sends one to hell. 

If we acknowledge our individual sins (willful, deliberate acts), trespasses (unintentional and sometimes unknowing transgressions of the law) and sin nature (that which is in us through the blood of Adam), speak our confession of our sins to God, ask to be forgiven and cleansed, Jesus (our advocate) will go to the Father on our behalf and we will be cleansed.  We can then be filled with the Holy Spirit which gives us the power of Jesus and with the HS and following those two commandments we can conceivably do what Jesus said: go and sin no more.

Since, through Jesus, we are redeemed from the curse and the law; in the end, the result should be that people will know us by our fruit as children of the Most High, and God will know we are His through our works (not the things we do but our "conversation" AKA attitude in what we do and how we do it through following the commandments Jesus referred to) which we obediently do through faithing. 

My apologies in advance for any unintentional errors or if I missed anything. It is approaching 3am and I'm sleepy so I may have typos or have forgotten something. 
* *
["The ABCs of Faith." Faith is Action, based on Belief, and sustained by Confidence that God is going to do what He said. -credit: Dr. Gene Scott]

(I think this post was for me cause God showed me something as I was typing. *sigh* I need Jesus.)*


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## discobiscuits (Apr 30, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> I think I'm following you.... It's just that I think that the premise behind your statements are better founded on Adam and Eve's fall in the Garden,  not the establishment of the 10 Commandments.
> 
> The atonement rituals were established not because the Lord did not "expect" us to keep His commandments, but in order to position ourselves "rightfully" before Him. It's not a matter of expectation because we have free will. We can "freely choose" not to obey anything or anyone.
> 
> And the Lord knew He had to come and complete the fullness of work that the atonement rituals could not adequately fulfill.



IMO the establishment of the 10 commandments were because of Adam's fall in the garden (I only list Adam b/c it is written that though one man's disobedience sin came -Adam... and again written through one man's obedience -Jesus.... Additionally, Adam was instructed not to eat of that tree prior to Eve being created see Gen. 3:16-18 but Eve was aware of God's instructions). Man's wickedness was so great that God was grieved that he even created man and sent a flood. He destroyed Sodom an Gomorrah for the same reason - man's sins and wickedness. The tree that they ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowing the Law (the 10 commandments) meant knowing sin which meant no flesh was justified. Paul said that the law itself is not sin but in the law is the knowledge of sin.



> [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]*Romans 3:19-31*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] *19* Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty F14 before God.    *20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.  * *21* But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;   *22* Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: *23* For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;   [/FONT]



God could no more "expect" than not expect man to not sin or to keep his commandments because sin is in man from birth. All have sinned and fallen short. Paul even gave that awesomely confusing soliloquy about the war inside between the flesh/mind and the spirit. 

Mankind does have free will and we can choose to obey or not. Under the Law they had to have the atonement rituals, as was stated to get right before God, but that does not mean that the rituals were inadequate. They were a stop gap measure until the Messiah came. Now that He has come, we no longer need animals for blood sacrifices and priests to present the sacrifice to God in periodic rituals; but we do still need a blood sacrifice (Jesus shed his blood for us) and an advocate to bring it before God (Jesus ascended to deliver himself to God as an acceptable sacrifice which is why he said not to touch him b/c he had not ascended and had he been touched the sacrifice would have been tainted and unable to be accepted by God). 

IMO if the rituals were inadequate, God would not have instructed the people to perform them. 

Summary: I do not agree that the rituals were inadequate*. My opinion is that the commandments were created as a result of the sin in the world because of the fall of man in the garden.


Note:
If inadequate is being used in the sense of insufficient since the rituals had to be repeated vs. the one time sacrifice of Jesus then I would agree. However, if inadequate is being used in the sense of "not good enough" or unsatisfactory then that is where I disagree b/c God would not establish or accept something that he would find unsatisfactory.


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## PaperClip (Apr 30, 2008)

jenniferohjenny said:


> IMO the establishment of the 10 commandments were because of Adam's fall in the garden (I only list Adam b/c it is written that though one man's disobedience sin came -Adam... and again written through one man's obedience -Jesus.... Additionally, Adam was instructed not to eat of that tree prior to Eve being created see Gen. 3:16-18 but Eve was aware of God's instructions). Man's wickedness was so great that God was grieved that he even created man and sent a flood. He destroyed Sodom an Gomorrah for the same reason - man's sins and wickedness. The tree that they ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowing the Law (the 10 commandments) meant knowing sin which meant no flesh was justified. Paul said that the law itself is not sin but in the law is the knowledge of sin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Good, robust conversation overall....

Per the bolded: I think both suggestions you describe can apply. Certainly the first part about the one-time all-sufficient sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And then with the second part, I wouldn't (necessarily) say "not good enough", but more like "unequal", like when you have an original document and you make a copy on a copy machine. The copy (e.g., the rituals, in this case) are only a SUBSTITUTE for the original atonement (JESUS CHRIST). The Lord God ESTABLISHED and ACCEPTED the earthly rituals out of His mercy and grace and because HE knew what he was going to do re. executing His ultimate plan of redemption: the Lord God Almighty putting on an earthsuit and coming to Planet Earth through a woman and being that PERFECT (one-time) SACRIFICE for us all.


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## Luxlii (Feb 4, 2009)

The bible says blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. Right?


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## Dove56 (Feb 5, 2009)

Prettylonghair said:


> The bible says blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. Right?



Right.  Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is tantamount to rejecting Christ.  If you reject Christ then you reject the Holy Spirit that warns/convicts us of sin and leads us to Christ.  After the Holy Spirit there will not be anyone to convict of us sin and point us to Christ.


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