# Witchcraft - Now What?



## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

*Now, the topic*...witches and witchcraft

I can tell you a lot about what witchcraft is.  But in this thread, I will focus more on what it *ISN'T.* 

Notice how I spelled the words witches and witchcraft in lowercase letters. Because that is exactly what it is....*lowercase.* *It's not above God. *And that alone should really finish this post, for it is the top, middle, side and bottomline...witchcraft is *not *above God and the shed Blood of Jesus Christ. 

*So my question to you is:* Who in hell are we supposed to be afraid of? 

No Christian has any rhymne or reason to 'fear' a witch or anyone that practices any form of witchcraft. Let alone any demon of any kind. 

*Yet* we are to be aware -- as we are to be aware of anything in this life. 

"Be self controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith." _---- 1 Peter 5:8-9_

Let me share something. witches are everywhere; not only in this forum, but everywhere and they will be until Jesus comes. witchcraft is practiced in almost every area of our lives each day. No matter where you are and where you've been, I can promise you that you've encountered a witch and some form of witchcraft...*daily.* And it's not stopping or going anywhere. 

However, knowing this, I dare you to be fearful of a witch or any devil. They are only acting in the flesh realm...a realm where they themselves are also made of...flesh. Because of a law that God has put into effect, anything that a witch may try to bring upon another, especially a Christian, falls back on them; and for *them* it can be deadly. 

Anyone who thinks they have a higher power because they are involved in witchcraft, is a fool. For only a fool would step outside of God and serve the devil. 

*What about the power of a witch? *

The main source of operation of a witch is 'fear'. Period. They operate using 'fear'. *AND *Truthfully, a witch has no power upon or against you unless *you* give it to them. 

There are other methods and realms in which they operate, but I can assure you that you have no business being afraid of what a witch may or may not do to you. *For as you being a Christian*, they cannot cross the Bloodline of Jesus Christ. 

I don't care what you have been threatened with or have seen or have been afraid of... a demon, a witch, or anything outside of God, CANNOT... I repeat... *CANNOT* cross the *Bloodline of Jesus Christ.* They will be killed in their attempts to do so. Trust me...'I know.' I live the life under the Blood of the Lamb. 

Several people have either died or simply disappeared for trying to bring harm upon me and/or my family. You do not mess with a child of God. Nor do you interfere with God's plan for their life. Death will come to those who get in the way and refuse to move. *Believe it!*


*Therefore, those of you who are in Covenant with God and are truly His, have nothing to fear. God says He will reprove Kings for our sakes, and I live this each day. So will you.*


*Isaiah 43:*


1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 

2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. 

3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. 

*4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.* 

5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; 

6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; 

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. 

8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 

9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 

10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 

11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 

12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. 

13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? 

(Note: Continued in next post).


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

*Continued:*

*Now here is where we have to take heed regarding witchcraft: *


*Simply don't take part in their practices. That's it. Do not take part in what they do. Do not worship their gods. *

*What did God tell us? *


*Deuteronomy 18*


9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a *witch.* 
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. 
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. 

Let share what's going on in the body of Christ. Not just here on the forum, but all over. The only reason witchcraft is being 'noticed' here by many LHCF members is because this is where you are spending much of your time. 

*But I have news for you.* The witches have been in this forum from the start and have been doing 'what they do' all along. There is no 'all of a sudden' witches and witchcraft are showing up here at LHCF. They were always here...doing what they do.  "Nothing". 

I will say this...*again.* It's when it's *NOT* mentioned or *NOT* obvious when it's most 'active'...shall I say.  I'll tell you something else. The ones doing all the talking about witchcraft are not the ones to be aware of.... 

:scratchch: Hmmmmmmm? Real / active witches do not announce or brag about themselves. Does any devil really ever? I'll tell you something else, this forum really does not have a *real *witch on it. They may *'think'* they are. But whatever they are practicing has been 'copied' more than truly experienced in it's fullest. Those that are here haven't gone that deep and if they tried...they'd be dead. 

But 'here' is what's truly going on in the forum and it's actually happening all over the Church ... the Body of Christ, period.

The spirit of 'fear', confusion, division, and lusts of the flesh. And if left unchecked, these factors can and will be a disaster. 

Again, we are not to 'fear' witches and witchcraft....they do not have rule or control over us unless we give it to them. However, we cannot make friends with the enemy. You can't. For the enemy will learn your weaknesses, your vuneralbilities and seek to destroy you and your faith and your walk with God. And you see, this is what those who practice witchcraft look for...a spiritual weakness or they seek to cause dirision and confusion. 

witches are in EVERY church...EVERY single one of them. 

With men...in churches, witches use spirtual weakness all the time against the men of God. Sex has always been an 'easy' target for them. Power and pride is another, for witches use that weakness against them and the spirit of lust and greed, hence mis-management of ministry funds, etc. 

In our prayer lives, we have to give heed to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to show us where witchcraft is and/or has come in. 

And indeed, witchcraft has come into this Christianity forum...big time. And much of it is by 'subtle suggestions or whining suggestions to alter the pure standards of Christian living and worship. 

Although the suggestion of blending the LOA with Christianity is ONLY *one* of the devices, there are others such as those who present certain threads which invite others who are not Christians (or claim they are Christians) to defend that which is *not *Christianity. The threads on homosexuality are a prime example. 

*BTW:*  Homosexuality is a form of witchcraft.  It's rebellion of God's original order and it is a work of the flesh as well as a demonic spirit in operation.   Homosexuals are and have been in churches big time for all time.  And it is used as an 'insult' to God's natural plan and intent for His design of man and for His purpose of a man and a woman.  

*Again, those who disagree, don't waste time with it here.  Take it up with me one on one or with the Holy Ghost. *

*This thread is for exhortation and loving the saints of God who have expressed serious concerns about the presence of witchcraft.  Not arguments. *

Basically, this is how it works. witchcraft is simply here in this forum to discredit the Christianity forum and anyone who professes to be a Christian. But again, know that witchcraft is everywhere a Christian is to do the same. For its objective is to make our witness for Jesus of non-effect and to weaken our prayers and the power of God who lives within us. There are other things that witches do, but if you are a child of God, there's no point in wasting fear over it. 

Be aware of what you hold dear. Be prayerful and always allow yourselves to be lead of the Holy Spirit for it is He who leads and guides all of us into Truth. 

Peace and blessings


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## crlsweetie912 (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

Shimmie:
I didn't read your post yet but I am glad to see you back.  You were missed!


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*



			
				crlsweetie912 said:
			
		

> Shimmie:
> I didn't read your post yet but I am glad to see you back. You were missed!


 
Hey Darlin'.  My love to you too and to your precious sons.  

God bless you, dear one.


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

Yes, there is a spiritual battle going on. However we must be very careful about who and what we call witchcraft. In Matthew 9:34 and Matthew 12:24, the Pharisees call Jesus Himself a diviner and mistook His power as coming from the devil.

This is a very slippery slope. Jesus' sheep know his voice. 

Something that concerns me more than the apparent "witchcraft" on the board is the level of pride and stubborness.  (and sometimes the lack of love).

The fruit of the spirit is joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (found in Galatians 5)

Sometimes, I don't hear much of these traits coming from us.

However, pride, stubborness, lack of love are very subtle sins that can break even the most zealous Christians. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. This is something we all need to think about as we share our thoughts...

Are we speaking the truth in love OR are we saying something just to be "right"?

ETA: According to 1 Samuel 15:23 _any rebellion_ against God is considered witchcraft, not just one particular sin.  Pride is like idolotry. It means that you are setting yourself up higher than God in your mind and in your actions.  I think this will be my first and last post to this thread... not sure yet...


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

I love this scripture.  

Who would have thought God could bless me from the book of Job.  But He has and He always will.

For those who have or 'fear' witches in their midst....

*JOB 5:* 

3 I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation. 
4 His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither is there any to deliver them. 

I didn't say it.  God did.    Ain't (oops, sorry  )  "Isn't God good?" 

He simply does not want His children in fear.   Wisdom ... *Yes!*   Fear... No!   I came from a church that was full of witches, trying their best to sabatage our ministry and God always showed up...big time. 

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal.   We have His word; we have prayer; we have the Holy Ghost; we have Jesus; and we are under His Covenant Blood of protection.   

I have more word....you know I do.  

Ladies, I lived this.  And I'm sharing with you what I know.  And what I don't know, the Holy Ghost will teach you.  For He is the One who has the full handle on all of this.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

This thread is a Love Letter:

The loving word of God....Casting out fear which does not belong in the heart of a child of God.

I love this word... from Isaiah 43.  It's so  worth repeating.

10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and 

*"....understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." 
*
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 

12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. 

13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? 
____________________

Lord Jesus....Praise the name of the Lord for His powerful word.  This word alone, bears repeating.  Hang on your wall.  

*"...Understand that I am He...before me there was NO God formed and neither shall there be after me..."   (Isaiah 43:10).*
*Somebody praise Him...for His loving word.*

I'm coming back with more.  I'm going to fill this thread with love.  The love of God which casts out all fear.   For that's what perfect love does.  The perfect love of Jesus.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

More Love Angels...More love from God's word.  

I John 4: 

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 

12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 

13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 

18 There is no fear in love; but *PERFECT LOVE* casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 

19 We love him, because he first loved us. 

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.


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## StrawberryQueen (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*



			
				kelouis75 said:
			
		

> Yes, there is a spiritual battle going on. However we must be very careful about who and what we call witchcraft. In Matthew 9:34 and Matthew 12:24, the Pharisees call Jesus Himself a diviner and mistook His power as coming from the devil.
> 
> This is a very slippery slope. Jesus' sheep know his voice.
> 
> ...


You and Jcoily speak the truth as usual.

Thanks.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

For You More love from God's Heart....

Perfect Love Casting out Fear...

Lamentations 3:57 

Thou drewest near in the day that I called upon thee: thou saidst, "*FEAR NOT*."

Angels, the love of God for us as His children is so tender, that even in the very day that we feared and called upon Him, He drew near to us and said, "Fear Not." 

There is no one to fear... No one.


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## newme2003 (Feb 27, 2007)

Thank you for this Shimmie.  It has hit me recently that we really don't know who we work with these days/don't know who is around us and how important it is to make sure we are covered under Jesus' blood.  Thanks for covering this very important topic.


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## Northern_Belle (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

I'm at a quagmire.  What witchcraft are you referring to exactly?  Are you saying that those who are applying the law of attraction into their lives are witches or practing witchcraft or are you speaking of the members who practice wicca or an amalgamation of both?  I know it's been stated quite adamently that those who are participating in law of attraction work are bringing a baleful element into their lives.


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## princesslocks (Feb 27, 2007)

Thank You Shimmie for rightly dividing the word.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*



			
				Bella_Ballerina said:
			
		

> I'm at a quagmire. What witchcraft are you referring to exactly? Are you saying that those who are applying the law of attraction into their lives are witches or practing witchcraft or are you speaking of the members who practice wicca or an amalgamation of both? I know it's been stated quite adamently that those who are participating in law of attraction work are bringing a baleful element into their lives.


 
There are many, many forms of witchcraft and the practice of it.  And many, many levels.  Many of 'us' unknowingly have been and are involved in it and that's only because, it's the way of the world and how we have become engrossed in it. 

There are a series of books and teachings on this topic from several ministries.  I will gather and post them for you.  

The subject regarding the LOA is only a SMALL part of it.  witchcraft is happening around us everywhere, every single day.   Especiallly in the Church...*especially. *  The forum has nothing on the Church.  *Nothing.*  It's only mentioned because this is where the questions originated. 

*Again, it's everywhere, but especially where Christians are.   *

witchcraft is the actually the number one weapon that satan uses against Christians.  And it's main element is 'fear' and persuasive influence...the power of suggestion.  Simply messing with one's mind.  Remember how Jezebel used fear to intimidate Elijah?  He ran for days and it took an angel to awaken him from under a tree to eat.   The thing is, there was nothing that Jezebel could do to Elijah; for God's hand was upon him.  

There are other methods, but it's not worth going into at this moment.  However, the word says what happened to Jezebel. 

The whole purpose of this thread is to simply to help diminish the fears that so many Christians have of this.  Trust me the 'fear' is there.  And it would shock you to know who is and where it's been all along in your lives *outside* of this forum.   Actually, it's really not that prevelant 'here' as it is outside of this forum.  Truly.   

I hope this answers part of your question.


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## Northern_Belle (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

I suppose I don't see the rationale in this fear.  If you're convicted in your faith, believe wholeheartedly in the power of God, in His goodness and multitude of blessings which He will bestow upon you, you have no reason to fear for He is with you always.  Whom He blesses, no harm shall fall upon them.  Fear can stifle love and I know I am loved, blessed, and highly favored.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

newme2003 said:
			
		

> Thank you for this Shimmie. It has hit me recently that we really don't know who we work with these days/don't know who is around us and how important it is to make sure we are covered under Jesus' blood. Thanks for covering this very important topic.


 
Bottomline is don't ever fear.  No matter where you are, don't ever fear.  For this is not the last that this will come up.  But you will be well prepared that you have absolutely nothing and no one to fear. 

Do you know that there are Christians that actually hear the word 'witch' and run like a 'bat out of hell'...(so to speak).  And God says, we ought not fear such.   

I know this subject is sensitive, and it's not meant to harm or to hurt anyone.  But Christians are being intimidated to 'shut up' and not proclaim the power of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.  This is what happened to the prophet Elijah.  God had to take over until he came to his senses.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*

This is not about the LOA.  The LOA isn't even the tip of the iceburg.   Whatever posts were made about this subject prior, I can be certain, that God was not allowed to be fully gloried and given His honor.  

Neither was scripture allowed to be fully expressed to dispell the fears that come with this subject.   And you know what?  It's not even witchcraft that the real subject here.  It's the 'fear' of it.  And trust me, 'fear' lies within the hearts of too many Believers.   It ought not be so.  

Believers have a right to know their full authority in Jesus Christ.  They have that right.  They have been pushed around long enough.  Told to shut up and hide in a corner long enough; made to be fearful of consequences.   And it is the spirit of witchcraft...a spirit of control that is behind it. 

Yet God in His love wants it to be made loud and clear...

Romans 8:

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 

*15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again TO FEAR; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 
*
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 

A child of God is not called to fear...*and they have this right to KNOW it.*


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

princesslocks said:
			
		

> Thank You Shimmie for rightly dividing the word.


 
You are precious beyond words....


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

More Love...

Luke 10:

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven. 

19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: *and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 
*
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; *but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. 
*
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 

*I love this from God's word:*

And nothing shall by any means hurt you.    
And nothing shall by any means hurt you.  
And nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Angels, nothing shall by any means hurt you.

However, I rejoice more that our names are written in Heaven.  

Be blessed angels.  Please be blessed.  And fear not.  For God will never leave you nor forsake you...not ever.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

One day I was 'intimidated' and the Lord blessed me with this word.   I love it.  Now it's for you. 

*Isaiah 7*

4 Take heed, and be quiet; *FEAR NOT*, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah. 

5 *Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying, 
*
6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal: 

*7.* *Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. *

Angels, God has NEVER failed me.   Never.   And neither will He fail you.   Please hold on to this.   The Lord allowed to share this thread for a reason.   And with my extremely busy schedule, it was done.  

I have to close out for now.   My sincere apologies for misunderstandings but *NOT* for sharing the love of God to dispell fears of this subject.  It was truly meant to *love *the fear out of those who had such.  

Print this thread out and save it.  And most of all, know how much God loves you and has you safely in His heart and in His arms.  

Peace and blessings to you.... 

*

*


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## betteron2day (Feb 27, 2007)

The devil wants things sugar coated and is teaching that wrong is right. In a Christian forum, the unadulterated word of God should be preached to all. Then God will convict all wrong hearts and minds.

Expound the Word Ms. Shimmie. I was blessed.


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## MissYocairis (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*



			
				kelouis75 said:
			
		

> Yes, there is a spiritual battle going on. However we must be very careful about who and what we call witchcraft. In Matthew 9:34 and Matthew 12:24, the Pharisees call Jesus Himself a diviner and mistook His power as coming from the devil.
> 
> This is a very slippery slope. Jesus' sheep know his voice.
> 
> ...




(((((((KELOUIS75)))))) That was a wonderful perspective.


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## MissYocairis (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*



			
				Bella_Ballerina said:
			
		

> I suppose I don't see the rationale in this fear.  If you're convicted in your faith, believe wholeheartedly in the power of God, in His goodness and multitude of blessings which He will bestow upon you, you have no reason to fear for He is with you always.  Whom He blesses, no harm shall fall upon them.  Fear can stifle love and I know I am loved, blessed, and highly favored.



*APPLAUDING BELLA!!!!!!*


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*



			
				Shimmie said:
			
		

> "Ke", This is not about the LOA, angel. The LOA isn't even the tip of the iceburg. Whatever posts were made about this subject prior, I can be certain, that God was not allowed to be fully gloried and given His honor.
> 
> Neither was scripture allowed to be fully expressed to dispell the fears that come with this subject. And you know what? It's not even witchcraft that the real subject here. It's the 'fear' of it. And trust me, 'fear' lies within the hearts of too many Believers. It ought not be so.
> 
> ...


 
Okay,  I see. I'm glad you explained. Yes, for those who are fearful of such things, I can see how a thread about standing on the authority of God's Word and trusting the Holy Spirit would be a blessing.

I just didn't realize that there were so many people living in this type of fear... If you're in the Word, witchcraft is a moot point... So for me, it was coming out of left field...


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## song_of_serenity (Feb 27, 2007)

betteron2day said:
			
		

> *The devil wants things sugar coated* and is teaching that wrong is right. In a Christian forum, the unadulterated word of God should be preached to all. Then God will convict all wrong hearts and minds.
> 
> Expound the Word Ms. Shimmie. I was blessed.



Exactly. I appreciate this thread also, Shimmie. It's amazing that people honestly make light of certain things and people who _claim_ the name of Christ tiptoe around certain issues because they don't want to "offend." Oh PLEASE. This is holiness or hell, people. We only get one ride in life and when you die, it's over and how you live your life before God is where your soul ends up. Don't you know that these are living souls that are wrapped up in things that you, if you are supposedly proclaiming Christ, are to speak out against AND rebuke AND *pray for the person* and *against the act? *God loves the sinner and hates the sin. We are, as his followers, to do the SAME.

 Personally, witchcraft isn't an issue with me, but I know a lot of people in fear of an "Obeah woman" and those trying to do "roots" on them. So yes, a thread like this IS relevent! And it's no play thing. These people are calling upon REAL demonic spirits. Call it like it is and don't turn your back because it's "unfair to others." That's the main reason God gave us a Breast plate is because we are to stand FACE TO FACE with the enemy and not a back-plate because we are not to turn and run away. Sin is sin, yes, but we are to address *ALL sin* in *WHATEVER* form. And it is not unfair as a Christian to speak out IN THE CHRISTIAN FORUM against something that as a CHRISTIAN you know is wrong; it's unfair to others to not address it and stand up againts it for the good of *their* soul AND the edifying of those in the body already. I don't believe Jesus sugarcoated ANY sin he was calling out. He told it like it is. He did it with LOVE. And so are we.

You'd be suprised how bringing up a subject and using scripture and God's love on the subject can help even those in it. I've seen it done. 

And yes, it may not be YOUR fear, or a popular subject in Christian talk, but God recognized ALL fears, or else he wouldn't have given scripture against it. <3
~*Janelle~*


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

betteron2day said:
			
		

> The devil wants things sugar coated and is teaching that wrong is right. In a Christian forum, the unadulterated word of God should be preached to all. Then God will convict all wrong hearts and minds.
> 
> Expound the Word Ms. Shimmie. I was blessed.


 
For you  and the blessings of the Lord and a healthy, safe and prosperous long life to you and yours. 

So right you are about the sugar coating.   Our Father God makes it plain that He chastises those whom He loves.   Therefore, He doesn't sugar coat us as His children; then why should we sugar coat His word?  The truth is what it is...the Truth and in Jesus, it is the Way, the Truth and the Life. 

The Love of God shall always be upon you.  Please take care, precious one.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

song_of_serenity said:
			
		

> Exactly. I appreciate this thread also, Shimmie. It's amazing that people honestly make light of certain things and people who _claim_ the name of Christ tiptoe around certain issues because they don't want to "offend." Oh PLEASE. This is holiness or hell, people. We only get one ride in life and when you die, it's over and how you live your life before God is where your soul ends up. Don't you know that these are living souls that are wrapped up in things that you, if you are supposedly proclaiming Christ, are to speak out against AND rebuke AND *pray for the person* and *against the act? *God loves the sinner and hates the sin. We are, as his followers, to do the SAME.
> 
> Personally, witchcraft isn't an issue with me, but I know a lot of people in fear of an "Obeah woman" and those trying to do "roots" on them. So yes, a thread like this IS relevent! And it's no play thing. These people are calling upon REAL demonic spirits. Call it like it is and don't turn your back because it's "unfair to others." That's the main reason God gave us a Breast plate is because we are to stand FACE TO FACE with the enemy and not a back-plate because we are not to turn and run away. Sin is sin, yes, but we are to address *ALL sin* in *WHATEVER* form. And it is not unfair as a Christian to speak out IN THE CHRISTIAN FORUM against something that as a CHRISTIAN you know is wrong; it's unfair to others to not address it and stand up againts it for the good of *their* soul AND the edifying of those in the body already. I don't believe Jesus sugarcoated ANY sin he was calling out. He told it like it is. He did it with LOVE. And so are we.
> 
> ...


 
Even if you disagreed with this thread, how precious in the heart and in the sight of the Lord, you are.   

I wish you blessings beyond you could ever ask or pray for.  Blessings for you and yours.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

JamericanGurl said:
			
		

> Shimmie why you making me break my rule with a response. I don't recall a thread specifically speaking of hatred towards Christians. Okay, I've made a number of smart remarks about people going overboard. heck i've even taken up for you a couple of times, when you were offering kindness. I do know of some unkind remarks and I have reported them. Especially when folx have purposely come over here to raise sand! But if there is another hateful thread PM it to me and I'll say something.
> 
> See, Shimmie just because it's the Christian forum still doesn't make it right what you said. I'm not mad at you or Pebbles...You believe what you believe! Pebbs ain't gonna do nothing but tell me to hursh as for you...It's really hard to be mad at someone that always says bless you at the end of every sentence
> 
> ...


If it weren't for you, I wouldn't know what I do know about forums.  I was extremely 'green' when I came here a year ago.   You taught me well.  

The beauty is this.  We still disagree, mis-understand, yet we care about each other.   

I'll be leaving the forum again and for a while.   I need you to keep things together for me.   You and your baby and your 'friend' will always be in my heart and prayers. 

J'Girl, I have to do what God has 'raised' me up to do.  I have to be yielded and obedient to Him. There's a ministry in me that has to be fulfilled. While it appears harsh and unkind on one angle,  it's still this about me, that taught me how to 'love' you as my sister and many others here.  

I'm not changing and that's a good thing.  For if I did, there'd be no you in my heart, even during times such as this.     

See you at Trader Joe's sweet lady.


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## Enchantmt (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow. This is a very fine line to walk, but I will do my best. With most religions, their way is seen as the only way. In speaking of your faith it almost always will result in SOMEONE being offended on some level if they do not subscribe to that particular faith. As Christians, we are warned against things such as witchcraft so this is a valid topic for this forum. As such, we also need to recognize that many Christians are actually guilty of this, as manipulation is also defined as a form of witchcraft. It is not just simply people who engage in rituals, spells, potions. Some topics on this board and the way some people share the gospel could even be seen as witchcraft, as they try to motivate people in to action by invoking fear to manipulate and control them. (This is not to say there are not consequences for us to be aware of, but that message can be relayed without putting folx back in bondage.) I know in the past I have manipulated people to get what I want and my mother, a major control freak, was Queen of this. 

Here is an online resource that has very good info:

http://www.mcleanministries.com/custom.html

*The legitimate authority that we will focus on here is the authority of "free will." God has given every man the freedom to make his own choices (whether right or wrong). When a person imposes their will on someone else in such a manner as to cause them to do something against their will, then that person has rebelled against the authority of "free will" that was established by God.*

The thing we need to keep in mind is that the word of God is for Christians, and not everyone on this board is a Christian, so you cant realistically hold them to this standard. Beyond what is needed for salvation, there is very little a non christian can get out of the word.  (For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.) Instead of using the word of God to condemn others, we need to use it to examine ourselves. ("You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." - That's the other part of the 'judge not' scripture folx like to skip over, tho if someone is not in Christ they are not your Christian brother and it STILL wouldnt apply.)


From what I've read, people have expressed a fear of witchcraft and Shimmie was simply responding to that. I dont have a problem with that. I also dont have a problem with the pagan topics on the board. The word of God can stand up to ANYTHING. Seeing an opposing opinion is not going to sway me. If I cant withstand a post on a message board, what will I do when I come up against this in real life? Shimmies message to not fear is on point. As Christians we are called to be a light to others. How can we be this light if we are hiding from those who need to hear the word of God? How can we be this light if we are lashing out and condemning others because they we fear what they represent? If that is where you are in your spiritual walk, thats fine, everyone grows and goes from milk to meat, however do recognize that  "God has not given us the Spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."  "Perfect love casts out fear." We need to work on relating to folx from a place of love, not fear. Gods word has the power to convict folx if needed, and lead them to salvation. We do not need to provide them with a laundry list of what they are doing wrong. Now if you are speaking to a brother or sister in Christ who is engaging in sinful actions that could destroy them, that is a different matter, and not what is being addressed here. 

Going foward, what I dont want to see is the board divided over this sort of mess again and a bunch of "heathen vs christian" posts. God has given everyone free will to choose. It's not our place to police folx personal decisions and lifestyles. I urge everyone to look at the link I posted and use it as a tool for self examination and not one for exclusion and division. We need to show folx the love of God. He is bigger than all of this and we should be also.


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## pebbles (Feb 27, 2007)

Thank-you, Enchantmt.


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## comike (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Oh My God! witchcraft - Now What?*



			
				Shimmie said:
			
		

> *Continued:*
> 
> *Now here is where we have to take heed regarding witchcraft: *
> 
> ...


 
Interesting.  I'm not that familiar with witchcraft.  What practices are you referring to? I'm sure some delve in witchcraft without being aware.


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## Radianthealth (Feb 27, 2007)

Welcome Back Shimmie 

I know you will touch many people with your words and your passion.


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## Northern_Belle (Feb 27, 2007)

I'm sure that Shimmie only had the best of intentions in the creation of this thread but I wanted to know where the whole notion of witchcraft being something that was an overwhelming fear was coming from.  I was under the impression that as a Christian, one should not hold fear of anything or anyone in their hearts because they have faith that rules their lives and that unwavering faith irradicates any fear.  Why have fear in your heart when God is ruling over your life?  If you are faithful, why would God allow harm to come to you?


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

Bella_Ballerina said:
			
		

> I'm sure that Shimmie only had the best of intentions in the creation of this thread but I wanted to know where the whole notion of witchcraft being something that was an overwhelming fear was coming from. I was under the impression that as a Christian, one should not hold fear of anything or anyone in their hearts because they have faith that rules their lives and that unwavering faith irradicates any fear. Why have fear in your heart when God is ruling over your life? If you are faithful, why would God allow harm to come to you?


 
Hi Bella, faith is a growth process, as with anything is in life.  There's a familiar saying, "What doesn't kill a person, only makes them stronger."  

The longer we practice something the stronger it gets.  In many instances 'faiith' is like muscle training.  The more one trains it, the bigger and stronger it becomes.   But faith must also be fed, and the feeding of the Christian faith is the word of God.

Consider this.   Children are taught to fear.   Literally, a child has little fear of anything until they are taught.   As children, many have been taught to fear the boogey man, fear the wicked witch of the West, fear ghosts and to fear the devil.   And it's not until they are 'confirmed' otherwise that they no longer walk in fear.

As humans, everyone has a 'fear' of some kind.   It's normal.   But it's when God shows us in His word, that those things which we once feared are no longer in rule, that one becomes strong and are no longer fearful. 

Everyone needs encouragement with something.  I don't care who it is or what they claim to have or to be.   

I hope this helps to answer your question somewhat.  Faith as with anything in this life is a process.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

trimbride said:
			
		

> Welcome Back Shimmie
> 
> I know you will touch many people with your words and your passion.


 
Hey Sweet Angel... 

Passion... you say?  Oh well.   

Blessings to you and 'hubby'....


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## Enchantmt (Feb 27, 2007)

For clarification:

_witch  (wch)
n.
1. A woman claiming or popularly believed to possess magical powers and practice sorcery.
2. A believer or follower of Wicca; a Wiccan.
3. A hag.
4. A woman considered to be spiteful or overbearing.
5. Informal A woman or girl considered bewitching.
6. One particularly skilled or competent at one's craft: "A witch of a writer, [she] is capable of developing an intensity that verges on ferocity" Peter S. Prescott.
v. witched, witchÂ·ing, witchÂ·es 
v.tr.
1. To work or cast a spell on; bewitch.
2. To cause, bring, or effect by witchcraft.
v.intr.
To use a divining rod to find underground water or minerals; dowse.

[Middle English wicche, from Old English wicce, witch, and wicca, wizard, sorcerer; see weg- in Indo-European roots.]

witcherÂ·y (--r) n.
witchy adj._

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft has more info. 


Discussing this from a biblical perspective we need to widen the definition because, as I stated in my previous post, the biblical definition includes using any type of manipulation to control someone or take away their free will. This is the more important aspect, in my opinion, as most Christians can usually recognize a ritual or spell as witchcraft, and avoid formal practice of it,  but not the more subtle types of manipulation that we actually come into contact with on a daily basis, may have commited ourselves, and therefore are more likely to cause harm.


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## Xavier (Feb 27, 2007)

I have been there...like some of the women who probably pm'ed you privately, inquiring about certain recent topics on the forum recently. I totally understand your need to reach those who were confused and had questions and concerns. 

I think back to when I was just saved and there was a lot that I was confused about. And yes, you can be a devout Christian and have fear. Have you every casted out demons, have you heard someone who was demon possessed speak, have you ever been physically attacked by demonic spirits. Just reading this someone is probably  or  . Maybe even thinking that I am  And I'm not even talking about the non-believers, I'm talking about the Christians, because of a lack of knowledge.

 When I got really into spiritual warfare I discussed my finding with many Christians and it was not a topic many of them were prepared to handle, because of FEAR. Like many of the ladies stated before there is NO reason to fear because GOD has given us the spirit of power, love and of a sound mine (2 Timothy 1:7). And the entire army of Satan is no match for God or his children who are covered in the blood. 

But what about the ones who have not gotten that far yet? 

I wish(for lack of a better word) I had this forum when I was saved and having my friend inquire about me to her "Christian" pyschic, or when I would occasionally read horoscopes, etc. I was navie and did not know that I was tapping into Satan's world on several occassions, not intentionally of course. I honestly didn't think there was anything wrong with it. The Devil has a lot of us fooled. He is using tactics masking them in such a way that he even has Christians buying into his deceit. 

Even though some of us may not agree with the manner in which it was presented it still does not take away the information that you shared. Thanks Shimmie. 

Be Blessed Ladies.


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## upandcoming (Feb 27, 2007)

I don't feel lead to share a specific response and I'm really tired anyway, but I want to say this:

A lot of these issues are real and it's good to talk about them. I just pray that everyone can do it in a manner that is Christ-like, I'm not saying anyone has or hasn't - in fact I haven't even read the whole thread (sorry, I'm kind of sore). I just know that threads like this, LOA, soulmates, etc attract a LOT of individuals, both Christian and non-Christian, members and non-members. 

Many people are NOT saved who are reading these forums, some of them are curious about Christianity, don't have many Christians friends....others have just been saved, are very new in their walk, have fallen, have poor tastes in their mouths about Christians etc...So let's just be mindful of how we're portraying ourselves, our faith, and most improtantly, actually really the ONLY Important issue...how we're reflecting Christ. And whether we've been Christian for one year or 40 years or w/e, we're alwayssss going to be learning so let's just try to put our best teachings/opinions/words out so that we can learn from one another...

We're not perfect, we're flesh and we're sinners but by God's grace havewe been saved. We're going to argue but let's just keep it tasteful if there's any at all...I just want us to act as a body of Christ....pushing one another to get to know and love Christ more than ever. This forum is attracting a lot of people. I love this site and this forum! Hehe 

You women are great. I'm learning a lot. Again, I'm not saying anyone has made it untasteful or that it's an untasteful situation, I just felt like speaking up about my feelings - just to clarify =)


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

brownsugababe said:
			
		

> I have been there...like some of the women who probably pm'ed you privately, inquiring about certain recent topics on the forum recently. I totally understand your need to reach those who were confused and had questions and concerns.
> 
> I think back to when I was just saved and there was a lot that I was confused about. And yes, you can be a devout Christian and have fear. Have you every casted out demons, have you heard someone who was demon possessed speak, have you ever been physically attacked by demonic spirits. Just reading this someone is probably  or  . Maybe even thinking that I am  And I'm not even talking about the non-believers, I'm talking about the Christians, because of a lack of knowledge.
> 
> ...


You know...you have knowledge of this.   

When I got saved 25 years ago, I thought that horoscopes, and the like were innocent activities and yes, I practiced witchcraft.  I used to get paid to 'read' people.   All of this not knowing that I was delving into the occult.    But thank God for Jesus.

As a Christian, I grew and I learned and it wasn't easy.  You see my family was still involved in much of these activities and could not understand why I no longer wanted to be a part of it.   What happened on the forum today (the reactions) is nothing compared to what occured with me and my family members who were totally against my new life in Jesus Christ.  But Jesus had a hold onto my heart and He would not let me go.  Neither could I let Him go.  I fell in love with Jesus Christ and wanted no other god.

I learned that what I was doing was wrong and also *why*.   God taught me, through my Pastors and other men and women of God, that my gifts for 'reading' people were actually 'Gifts of the Spirit' that satan was trying to use for his glory and not God's.  

I learned about the controlling Spirits that are prevelent in the Church; one being, "The Spirit of Jezebel".   And you are so right that too many Christians are fearful of addressing these spiritual issues, for they fear unable to handle them.  

I was sharing privately with a precious friend, how we had assigned Intercessors in our church (most churches do) trained to pray throughout the church and the Altar 'before' services and during Altar calls.  We cover our Pastors, and all of the members and attendees.   Why?  Because there are assigned demonic activities to interfere with the work of God.   'Controlling Spirits.'  As an Intercessor, you learn to battle in prayer and win. Actually, the battle is already won.  Jesus already did on the Cross.

25 years and I've seen more than I care to see or even speak of.   But Jesus always shows up in a mighty way.  With each new service, it begins all over again, helping the saints, new and old, get over the fears that have been imparted into them, years prior.  And the biggest fear they have is of 'demonic activity and controlling spirits' and those who 'control'.  I've cast out many a devil...in my own home...out of my children when they had a smart mouth or attitude. .  But only because of the authority that Jesus has given us by His love and His shed Blood.   

May I share this?   If you just look at some of the thread topics, you can tell which spirits are in operation.  It's easy.  The Holy Spirit shows you and directs the right words and the right prayers to fit each one. 

Precious Sister, I wish you well beyond your deepest prayers and dreams.  For all of you and yours...your loved ones, the blessings of the Lord will cease not, for you.  They cease not, but continue forever. 

Peace and blessings....


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## ThursdayGirl (Feb 28, 2007)

I just wanted to say, that I appreciate this thread.:Rose:   I have seen and read quite a few posts on this forum, lately, that made me, as a Christian, raise my eyebrow and unsettled my spirit.  I've also seen a few posts that so clearly had elements of occult (as described by the bible), that I had to go back to the Bible and review what it said on the matter.  People have the rights to their beliefs and how they practice, so I don't say anything in those threads, but I was surprised to see them.  IF there are Christians out there who are afraid of these things, then it is good that they are reminded to not be afraid.  

Its good to see you posting Shimmie. .  Thank you for bringing the Word (as usual) and encouraging those who may not be as strong in their faith as you are in yours.  I appreciate your service/ ministry, because not everybody has the same understanding or breadth of knowledge when it comes to the Bible.  Its always good to have some help/a reminder.  Its also good to have a discussion.  Though, your posts often shake things up, I see this as only a good thing.  Its good to have a more fundamentalist view of things in this time of PC Christianity.   God gave us all freedom of choice.  If people choose to believe the info is there for them to see.  For those who read and choose a different path, when they go before God and have to make their account, they can't say they never heard these things.  

Finally, I also appreciate your thread because lately, it has been on my mind, that alot of ministries out there do not go back to the Word or they used just one scripture to try to make a sermon.  What these ministries have to say sounds good and PC, but without enough scripture to back it up, is it really right?  I guess it has been more on my mind to go back to the Word and stop putting so much faith in what people are is so.  So again, thanks for bringing the scriptures and thanks for taking a bold and unapologetic stance on what you believe and what the bible says.  You better believe that other people will be bold and unapologetic about what they believe.  


-----------

As for LOA and some positive thinking programs, I don't think they are inherently evil, but I think they are deceptive.  God tells us to seek Him and His righteousness for the things that we need (I believe this goes for wants as well) (Matt. 6:25-34).  It seems that LOA does not do that.  It tells you to seek the Universe or to use energy within oneself to manifest the things you want.  One may get everything they want that way, but they'll not get it the way God wants them to.  Who knows how many other blessings they're passing up because of how they're seeking their desires.


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## Shimmie (Feb 28, 2007)

ThursdayGirl said:
			
		

> I just wanted to say, that I appreciate this thread.:Rose: I have seen and read quite a few posts on this forum, lately, that made me, as a Christian, raise my eyebrow and unsettled my spirit. I've also seen a few posts that so clearly had elements of occult (as described by the bible), that I had to go back to the Bible and review what it said on the matter. People have the rights to their beliefs and how they practice, so I don't say anything in those threads, but I was surprised to see them. *IF there are Christians out there who are afraid of these things, then it is good that they are reminded to not be afraid.*
> 
> *Its good to see you posting Shimmie.* . Thank you for bringing the Word (as usual) and encouraging those who may not be as strong in their faith as you are in yours. I appreciate your service/ ministry, because not everybody has the same understanding or breadth of knowledge when it comes to the Bible. Its always good to have some help/a reminder. Its also good to have a discussion. Though, your posts often shake things up, I see this as only a good thing. Its good to have a more fundamentalist view of things in this time of PC Christianity. God gave us all freedom of choice. If people choose to believe the info is there for them to see. For those who read and choose a different path, when they go before God and have to make their account, they can't say they never heard these things.
> 
> ...


Thank you Thursdaygirl for such a beautiful Wednesday morning message.

Your post is honest and beautifully put.  Yes, the Lord does use me to 'shake things up', but in His 'Body' in the Church He has 'shakers and movers' to cast the devil out of where he's had rule far too long.   Chriistians have no need to be fearful of what any devil may do to them. he does not have that authority over us.  We have full authority over him.

God hears the cries of His children, whom He loves so dearly.   In the book of Psalms, you will read over and over the cries of distress and the fears that came upon many.   

King David cried out often to God and one of his most powerful prayers is in Psalm 3.  He was tormented by many who said there was no help for him in God.   

And sadly, that's how it is today for so many Believers.  They are told here and there, that there is no help for them in God.  The devil wants to break them down in fear.   And they live in fear and torment and despair.  Yet God in His love sends them the Truth to set them free.  He becomes the lifter of our head. 

Psalm 3:  

1 Lord, how are they increased that trouble me! many are they that rise up against me. 
*2 Many there be which say of my soul, There is no help for him in God.* Selah. 
3 But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head. 

4 *I CRIED UNTO THE LORD* with my voice, and he heard me out of his holy hill. Selah. 
*5 I laid me down and slept; I awaked; for the LORD sustained me.* 
6 I will not be afraid of ten thousands of people, that have set themselves against me round about. 
7 Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly. 
8 Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah. 

God's word never fails us.   And fear has no place in our walk with the Lord.  God's word displaces the enemy and his lies out of our lives.   And we become more than Conquerors through Jesus Christ who loves us. 

God bless you, Thursdaygirl...Have a day and life full of love and blessings.


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## meek&quietspirit (Feb 28, 2007)

Hey Shimmie,

As the Christian Fellowship Forum description states in the caption above, this Forum is for believers of Jesus Christ to discuss topics related to Christianity.

Shimmie, may you continue to speak the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth which comes from the only Truth which is located in the Bible, the Word of God.

*For you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free.* 
Spoken by Christ Jesus, Who is The Only Begotten Son Of God and Only Savior of the world, The Redeemer, Ruler, Deliverer, Judge, The Holy Spirit, *and coming back again*, King of heaven and earth)!!!!!

Welcome back. You were really missed. And that's the truth.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 28, 2007)

*I guess when Jesus said these things, He was out of order, huh?  I'm assuming that Jesus shouldn't have said what He said to those people, because they were going to be offended.  Well, I wonder if Jesus didn't say and do what the Father told Him, where would we (those of us who say we are christians) be today?  I'm not going to say anything else about this...I don't need too....the WORD OF GOD says it all.*

Please read:
*Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees - *

*Matthew 23*

*23:1 *Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, *2 *â€œThe scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, *3 *so practice and observe whatever they tell youâ€”but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice. *4 *They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, [1] and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. *5 *They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, *6 *and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues *7 *and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi [2] by others. *8 *But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. [3] *9 *And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. *10 *Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. *11 *The greatest among you shall be your servant. *12 *Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
*13 *â€œBut woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. [4] *15 *Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell [5] as yourselves.
*16 *â€œWoe to you, blind guides, who say, â€˜If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.â€™ *17 *You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? *18 *And you say, â€˜If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.â€™ *19 *You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? *20 *So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. *21 *And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. *22 *And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.
*23 *â€œWoe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. *24 *You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
*25 *â€œWoe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. *26 *You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
*27 *â€œWoe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. *28 *So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
*29 *â€œWoe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, *30 *saying, â€˜If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.â€™ *31 *Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. *32 *Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. *33 *You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? *34 *Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, *35 *so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, [6] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. *36 *Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

*Lament over Jerusalem*

*37 *â€œO Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! *38 *See, your house is left to you desolate. *39 *For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, â€˜Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
</H3>


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 28, 2007)

meek&quietspirit said:
			
		

> Hey Shimmie,
> 
> As the Christian Fellowship Forum description states in the caption above, this Forum is for believers of Jesus Christ to discuss topics related to Christianity.
> 
> ...


 
Can I get a AMEN?


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## Shimmie (Feb 28, 2007)

meek&quietspirit said:
			
		

> Hey Shimmie,
> 
> As the Christian Fellowship Forum description states in the caption above, this Forum is for believers of Jesus Christ to discuss topics related to Christianity.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you   I really mean it.


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## Omoge (Feb 28, 2007)

Thank you Shimmie for this message. 

God gave all of us freewill and the right to choose to serve whatever/whomever we want to serve. I have absolute respect for everyone's freewill. 
The overall tone I get on this forum is that there is a general respect for that God given free will and other people's right to choose.

However I appreciate this as biblically backed effort to remove the fear(founded or unfounded)  any Christian or even non Christian  may carry in their mind, consciously or subconsciously about things of the esoteric/mystical/ nature. 
I view it as an encouragement to other Christians or people trying to be stronger Christians.

I don't take it as witchhunt. Shimmie's message has not made me view anyone on this forum that might be a practitioner of  "esoteric" philosophies differently,  rather its cause for ME to check myself and sharpen myself accordingly.
IMO, the main focus of the message is on the individual recipient developing herself ,feeding and growing on the word of God (removing the log in your eye), not going out on a fear mongering/ witchhunting rampage (removing the log in other's eyes)
I did not send you a PM, so if you had responded privately, I'd have missed out on the benefits of your words. So, I'm glad you posted it here.


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## Radianthealth (Feb 28, 2007)

The truth is, there is freedom in allowing circumstances to be what they are and people to be who they are, whether you agree with them or not. - The Art of Allowing


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## Shimmie (Feb 28, 2007)

trimbride said:
			
		

> The truth is, there is freedom in allowing circumstances to be what they are and people to be who they are, whether you agree with them or not. - *The Art of Allowing*


 
I like this.   It's a beautiful statement.   The Art of Allowing.  And it fits life.   In my heart it is to 'Allow' Jesus Christ to be glorified.  He loves us so much. 

What price...the Cross of His love, which crossed over our sins and gave us a hope and a reason to live.  I love our Lord Jesus.  We all do.  And the love and the freedom He has given us ...is 'Allowed'.


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## MrsQueeny (Feb 28, 2007)

I have not read all the responses but I wanted to post an objective view on the subject.  As Christians we are supposed to put GOD first in all we do.  That's it and no one else.  So nothing should take the place of GOD as far as serving, worshipping etc.  When you look at it from that perspective then you can understand where we are coming from.  Posting about things that are not of GOD and clarifying does not mean we fear or are afraid.  We are supposed to be wise so as to not stray away.  Some of the things that keep us from GOD are not of themselves evil but when they take the place of GOD then we need to check ourselves.  It could be the tv, the internet, whatever that may distract us from giving GOD our all.  Please don't confuse making sure we continue put GOD first, worship Him alone, and serving HIM alone means we want to bash someone else.  We are called to help others along their path.  Yes it means that we don't follow or support someone else's beliefs and practices but we still love the person.  Q


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## beverly (Mar 4, 2007)

bump......


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## Enchantmt (Mar 4, 2007)

Due to the overwhelming request for the information contained in this thread it has been placed back into the forum for viewing purposes only. About half the responses have been deleted. If your post was deleted it was either offtopic,  referenced a post that was off topic, or was posted after the original thread had been copied for reference. 

Be Blessed!


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