# How Haitian Migrants got to the Texas



## Kanky (Sep 21, 2021)

Did y’all see these folks getting whipped by border patrol agents who were chasing them on horseback. ​





						How thousands of Haitian migrants ended up at the Texas border | Global development | The Guardian
					

Gang violence, bloody protests, food and fuel shortages plus natural disasters have spurred many to leave the west’s poorest nation




					amp.theguardian.com
				


​​How thousands of Haitian migrants ended up at the Texas border​Gang violence, bloody protests, food and fuel shortages plus natural disasters have spurred many to leave the west’s poorest nation​






Show caption

Every night Guy would fall asleep to the sound of gunfire: warring gangs in the Haitian capital, Port-au-Prince, were fighting pitched battles in the city centre.
By day, the country was roiled by bloody protests against food and fuel shortages. Roadblocks with burning tyres were commonplace, and the police responded with tear gas and billy clubs.
“Going outside was scary,” said Guy. “There was no choice but to get out of Haiti.” He started making plans to reach the US – and he was far from alone.
Guns, gangs and foreign meddling: how life in Haiti went from bad to worse
Authorities in the Texastown of Del Rio, Texas, declared a local state of emergency on Friday after some 12,000 migrants – most from Haiti – gathered under and around a bridge on the border with Mexico.
The influx has overwhelmed local officials, presented Joe Biden with a new challenge – and cast a spotlight on the growing migration crisis triggered by the multiple and overlapping calamities which have beset Haiti.
For many migrants, crossing the Rio Grande is just the last small step in a circuitous odyssey that stretches across the Caribbean and deep into South America.
Most fly from Haiti to Ecuador, which does not require a visa for Haitian visitors, before either trying to find work in Brazil or Chile, or heading north, crossing the perilous jungles of the Darién Gap and onwards to Central America and Mexico.
At every stage, they are at the mercy of a security forces and organized crime groups which target travelers, and the rickety infrastructure of the people-smuggling business.
Guy was one of thousands of migrants, again mostly Haitians, who recently became stranded in Necoclí, a Colombian beach town where local ferries to Panama are unable to meet demand.
Like many others, he had been living in Brazil, where he worked at informal construction jobs. But, with jobs drying up and a perceived welcoming attitude from the Biden administration, he set out northwards.
“We follow those that went before us,” Guy said, on a recent afternoon. “It doesn’t matter if it’s dangerous.”


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 21, 2021)

I thought about starting a thread on this. I hadn’t seen the video of them being whipped but my sister and I were questioning how so many got to Texas. This is unreal.


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## Keen (Sep 21, 2021)

I'm sure my judgement on the matter is bias. My father made it here looking for a better life. Going through the Texas border had been a good plan until so many showed up at once. 

One of my FB friend posted this and I totally agree with her: "No one would choose water over land, if they didn't feel water was safer".


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## Dposh167 (Sep 21, 2021)

There are a lot of videos on youtube that document their journey.


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## chocolat79 (Sep 21, 2021)

I haven't read this yet,  but thank you for starting this.  I was just asking my Mom about this


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## Theresamonet (Sep 21, 2021)

Can someone remind me of what the Biden admin said that would be perceived as welcoming them?


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## PatDM'T (Sep 21, 2021)

I am just catching 
up on this and
this video is how
I found out:


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## Keen (Sep 21, 2021)

Theresamonet said:


> Can someone remind me of what the Biden admin said that would be perceived as welcoming them?


It’s the perceived attitude towards immigration.  All the things the Democrats used to scold the Trump administration on. It’s not only Haitians who feel like they have better chances with Biden’s administration.  People from Central America have the same perception.  That’s why there was an influx of unoccupied minors after Biden got elected.  

Trump was not going to grant an extension on TPS (temporary protective status ) for Haitians.  After Biden got elected, he granted extension for Haitians living in the US as of May.  
Then the Haitian president got assassinated July 7th, Biden changed the extension to include anyone in the country as of a date end of July.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Sep 22, 2021)

They didn't know Biden was all cap.


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## yamilee21 (Sep 22, 2021)

The colossal waste of money really makes me so upset… it is so shortsighted. 12,000 people spending, on average, $10,000 each to arrive at the border. That is 120 million dollars! Collectively, that is an astronomical sum for Haiti. The micro-lender NGOs in Haiti give their clients loans of $100 (or less!) to start small businesses. Now the migrants are deported back with less than they had when they left the Haiti 5, 10 or 15 years ago to go to Brasil, Chile, etc. I wish there were an investigation into the WhatsApp and social media messages that were circulating to encourage people to make this insane trip - those at the origin of those messages are the cruelest criminals. Brazil and especially Chile also are fault; both were handing out visas like candy a few years back, knowing full well they had no intention of allowing Haitians immigrants to permanently settle in their countries. 

Haitians have to stop fleeing to other countries, particularly the United States and the Dominican Republic, as the solution to the country’s problems. That first generation that fled Duvalier in the 1960s and early 1970s set such a terrible precedent; later generations have focused only on the relative material stability/comfort attained elsewhere, and the reliability of remittances, while ignoring the long years of unresolved immigration status, economic hardship and deep regrets among many. But the United States has been sending a consistent message since the Reagan era - Haitians are not welcome, period. Not in the early 1980s, when Haitian bodies were washing up on the Florida coast, after overloading tiny fishing boats… not in the early-mid 1990s, when Haitians were locked up at Guantanamo… and certainly not after traversing South and Central American in 2021. Haitians en masse have always been deported back over the past four decades. In recent years (pre-Covid), even some middle/upper-middle class Haitians with no desire to settle in the U.S. have not been able to obtain or renew tourist visas to visit family. What on earth possessed this group to think the outcome would be any different this time?


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## Ivonnovi (Sep 22, 2021)

In a Year when Billionairs are spending millions for a -30min flight to Space; were we've broght immigrants fron contries we've been at War with for 20 yrs.   WE (the US) can't prove that BLM and treat these folks with dignity?    I know (to well) that they'll use the old Language Barrier as a part of the influence for what the horse back and Whip action; and TBH I am quite appalled.  * BUT I do APPLAUDE the former Border Agent in the clip that laments that she felt like a f'n Nazi!*

I am really appalled.....that's all I can express with out getting banned!


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Sep 22, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> The colossal waste of money really makes me so upset… it is so shortsighted. 12,000 people spending, on average, $10,000 each to arrive at the border. That is 120 million dollars! Collectively, that is an astronomical sum for Haiti. The micro-lender NGOs in Haiti give their clients loans of $100 (or less!) to start small businesses. Now the migrants are deported back with less than they had when they left the Haiti 5, 10 or 15 years ago to go to Brasil, Chile, etc. I wish there were an investigation into the WhatsApp and social media messages that were circulating to encourage people to make this insane trip - those at the origin of those messages are the cruelest criminals. Brazil and especially Chile also are fault; both were handing out visas like candy a few years back, knowing full well they had no intention of allowing Haitians immigrants to permanently settle in their countries.
> 
> Haitians have to stop fleeing to other countries, particularly the United States and the Dominican Republic, as the solution to the country’s problems. That first generation that fled Duvalier in the 1960s and early 1970s set such a terrible precedent; later generations have focused only on the relative material stability/comfort attained elsewhere, and the reliability of remittances, while ignoring the long years of unresolved immigration status, economic hardship and deep regrets among many. But the United States has been sending a consistent message since the Reagan era - Haitians are not welcome, period. Not in the early 1980s, when Haitian bodies were washing up on the Florida coast, after overloading tiny fishing boats… not in the early-mid 1990s, when Haitians were locked up at Guantanamo… and certainly not after traversing South and Central American in 2021. Haitians en masse have always been deported back over the past four decades. In recent years (pre-Covid), even some middle/upper-middle class Haitians with no desire to settle in the U.S. have not been able to obtain or renew tourist visas to visit family. What on earth possessed this group to think the outcome would be any different this time?


This suggests accountability on both sides. I just assumed the situation was so bad these folk were absolutely desperate. I also assumed a lot of people with the ability to migrate ANYWHERE had some money they had access to.


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## Theresamonet (Sep 22, 2021)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> They didn't know Biden was all cap.



Lmao


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## Theresamonet (Sep 22, 2021)

I’m sorry these Haitian migrants wasted their time and money. .

But I’m more concerned about getting to the bottom of who put whips on the supply order form. We don’t need white men out here exercising their whipping arms. They look too thrilled in the videos I’m seeing.


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 22, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> The colossal waste of money really makes me so upset… it is so shortsighted. 12,000 people spending, on average, $10,000 each to arrive at the border. That is 120 million dollars! Collectively, that is an astronomical sum for Haiti. The micro-lender NGOs in Haiti give their clients loans of $100 (or less!) to start small businesses. Now the migrants are deported back with less than they had when they left the Haiti 5, 10 or 15 years ago to go to Brasil, Chile, etc. I wish there were an investigation into the WhatsApp and social media messages that were circulating to encourage people to make this insane trip - those at the origin of those messages are the cruelest criminals. Brazil and especially Chile also are fault; both were handing out visas like candy a few years back, knowing full well they had no intention of allowing Haitians immigrants to permanently settle in their countries.
> 
> Haitians have to stop fleeing to other countries, particularly the United States and the Dominican Republic, as the solution to the country’s problems. That first generation that fled Duvalier in the 1960s and early 1970s set such a terrible precedent; later generations have focused only on the relative material stability/comfort attained elsewhere, and the reliability of remittances, while ignoring the long years of unresolved immigration status, economic hardship and deep regrets among many. But the United States has been sending a consistent message since the Reagan era - Haitians are not welcome, period. Not in the early 1980s, when Haitian bodies were washing up on the Florida coast, after overloading tiny fishing boats… not in the early-mid 1990s, when Haitians were locked up at Guantanamo… and certainly not after traversing South and Central American in 2021. Haitians en masse have always been deported back over the past four decades. In recent years (pre-Covid), even some middle/upper-middle class Haitians with no desire to settle in the U.S. have not been able to obtain or renew tourist visas to visit family. What on earth possessed this group to think the outcome would be any different this time?


Just curious but do you feel this way about others who come here? Everybody comes for a better life but I rarely hear people put the onus back on them to make things right back home. Is it because of how they've been treated in the past? Or a general desire to see them rebuild their home country? Or something else? I'm not discounting the history you've pointed out but I don't recall anyone coming through the southern border being treated well.

ETA: I'm not at all suggesting that poor treatment is ok or that what they're experiencing isn't worse. Just curious about the perspective that they need to focus on fixing home instead of seeking a better life for themselves and their families.


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## Kanky (Sep 22, 2021)

Theresamonet said:


> I’m sorry these Haitian migrants wasted their time and money. .
> 
> But I’m more concerned about getting to the bottom of who put whips on the supply order form. We don’t need white men out here exercising their whipping arms. They look too thrilled in the videos I’m seeing.


This right here!


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## CarefreeinChicago (Sep 22, 2021)

If they can let 95,000 Afghanistan's in they can let these people in


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## yamilee21 (Sep 22, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> Just curious but do you feel this way about others who come here? Everybody comes for a better life but I rarely hear people put the onus back on them to make things right back home. Is it because of how they've been treated in the past? Or a general desire to see them rebuild their home country? Or something else? I'm not discounting the history you've pointed out but I don't recall anyone coming through the southern border being treated well.
> 
> ETA: I'm not at all suggesting that poor treatment is ok or that what they're experiencing isn't worse. Just curious about the perspective that they need to focus on fixing home instead of seeking a better life for themselves and their families.


My perspective comes from being Haitian and watching the same thing happen over and over again. It’s so frustrating; people in Haiti who want to leave are so focused on leaving that they don’t hear anything that diaspora tell them about the realities of immigration. When the previous administration was becoming even harder on undocumented immigrants, a lot of Haitians went to Quebec, where they were processed more humanely… but the vast majority were/are still subject to deportation, even the ones deemed “heroes” for working in understaffed nursing homes during the worst of the pandemic. Every time there is a whisper of political trouble in DR, the government distracts by rousing up nationalist sentiments and deporting Haitians and Haitian descendants by the tens of thousands. The Bahamas does the same. Haiti was invited to join Caricom, but Haitians aren’t allowed to travel without visas to member nations the way citizens of all the other countries can. No country wants Haitian immigrants in the quantities Haitians wish to emigrate.
It’s too complicated to get into all the details… the situation is truly awful in most of the capital and the surrounding areas, but there is more to the country than Port-au-Prince; and there is a serious mismatch between the country’s resources and needs vs. what people are willing to do.


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## Theresamonet (Sep 22, 2021)

CarefreeinChicago said:


> If they can let 95,000 Afghanistan's in they can let these people in



I don’t understand how the two situations are comparable. The US is directly responsible for Afghan’s needing to flee the country. How are we responsible for the earthquakes in Haiti?


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 22, 2021)




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## CarefreeinChicago (Sep 23, 2021)

Theresamonet said:


> I don’t understand how the two situations are comparable. The US is directly responsible for Afghan’s needing to flee the country. How are we responsible for the earthquakes in Haiti?


If they have room for 95,000 they have room for what is it 860 something I don't know the exact number and why are they still working off of 45's policy's concerning immigrants?


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 23, 2021)

I’m honestly not sure how to feel about this. Immigration issues don’t usually interest me because the people tend not to look like me and I’ve got enough to worry about. Immigration feels like a low priority right now given everything else that’s happening but it’s legitimately everything to those people. Seeing them as refugees changes the narrative some but sadly many can make that same claim. All I know is it’s hard seeing black people seeking help and being chased away like cattle. I wish I had the answers.


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## Kanky (Sep 23, 2021)

CarefreeinChicago said:


> If they can let 95,000 Afghanistan's in they can let these people in


I think that the Haitians need to go home.  They will come here and then talk crap about AA’s like Joy Reid. No thank you and go fix your own country instead of coming to the one that we fixed. 

ETA: They should offer them the Covid-19 vaccine before they send them back since we have extra.


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## Kanky (Sep 23, 2021)

CarefreeinChicago said:


> If they have room for 95,000 they have room for what is it 860 something I don't know the exact number and why are they still working off of 45's policy's concerning immigrants?


There are 10k in Texas and 30k more trying to come here. 









						Why many thousands of Haitians converged on the US-Mexico border
					

Thousands of Haitian migrants have appeared at the US-Mexico border seeking to cross the Rio Grande and find refuge in the US.




					www.cnn.com


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## yamilee21 (Sep 23, 2021)

By the way, for the anti-Haitian/anti-immigrants among you… Haiti welcomed African-Americans in the 19th century, when the United States sought to repatriate free blacks in the waning years of slavery and after the Civil War. Throughout the most of the 19th century, any person of African ancestry coming to Haiti was automatically entitled to citizenship. Not all remained, but many did, as their anglophone surnames are still found in the country.


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## Kanky (Sep 23, 2021)

They still have to go back.  

One of the great things about social media is that a lot of black immigrants showed how they really feel about the people whose hard work let them legally immigrate to this country. Joy Reid threw AAs under the bus from the national platform that she only had because AA’s supported her. I will also never forget all of the “I can’t vote for Hilary because of what the Clintons did in Haiti” Haitians-Americans who helped Trump get into office. The nastiness of that administration will probably impact my children’s children. I’ve noticed that AAs have been a lot less supportive of immigration issues lately.

That being said I am obviously not in favor of anyone being whipped. They need to treat people with dignity and respect as they send them back where they came from. Those border patrol need to be fired along with horses they rode in on.


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## Keen (Sep 23, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> It’s so frustrating; people in Haiti who want to leave are so focused on leaving that they don’t hear anything that diaspora tell them about the realities of immigration.


Many said their family in the US encouraged them to come.  Most have a relative in the US whom they can come to. I think they only release you if you have somewhere to go. Some of these people has been in South America for over 5 years, they made the journey because they thought they had a shot. And they did. The Biden administration has been letting them in all year( I know this for sure because we've made a few airport pickups). This entire situation make it seem like the Biden administration is not an ally to Haitian immigrants. I can't buy into that narrative because I know people who didn't know what they would do if Trump got a second term. But as soon as Biden came, he renewed TPS. 

What's happening at Del Rio is outrages. The democrats will hear our rage. I can't say the same for other administration. We wouldn't even be able to find them to hold their feet to the fire. I will probably get side eyes for feeling this way but I know too many people on TPS. Those people will never get green cards from the republicans.  I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. 

@yamilee21 I'm not speaking to you directly. I just went on a rant.


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## ScorpioBeauty09 (Sep 23, 2021)

Theresamonet said:


> I don’t understand how the two situations are comparable. The US is directly responsible for Afghan’s needing to flee the country. How are we responsible for the earthquakes in Haiti?


There's a whole sick history between the US and Haiti that includes a 20-year invasion 100 years ago. We, like France have fueled the economic and political turmoil in Haiti since they kicked out the wypipo in 1804. This article gives a decent overview.


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## yamilee21 (Sep 23, 2021)

Keen said:


> Many said their family in the US encouraged them to come. Most have a relative in the US whom they can come to.


And that is another part of the problem - a lot of people here aren’t honest with their relatives, or are afraid to be, lest they be accused of wanting better for themselves than they do for their relatives. How do you encourage your own family to make such a trek? At this point, anyone in the U.S. who hasn’t heard about the way Mexican kidnapping cartels go after migrants trying to cross the border is being willfully obtuse. The Mexican kidnappers make the Haitian gang kidnappers look like Boy Scouts. And that is if they even make it to Mexico in the first place! The entire trek, from Chile to the U.S. border, is littered with corpses. 

The whole situation, from every aspect, is so infuriating. But I do feel some grudging respect for Daniel Foote, the U.S. Special Envoy to Haiti, who resigned and didn’t mince words.


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 23, 2021)

@Kanky Help me remember what Joy said about AAs. I feel like I heard it but don’t remember. All that comes to mind is her talking about how successful black immigrants are compared to AAs and it rubbing me the wrong way but I think there’s more.


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## nysister (Sep 23, 2021)

Wow...whipping people with no where to go, but trying to get as many Afghans on planes as possible. Both groups are in the same boat. #ThisIsAmerica


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## Rastafarai (Sep 23, 2021)

nysister said:


> Wow...whipping people with no where to go, but trying to get as many Afghans on planes as possible. Both groups are in the same boat. #ThisIsAmerica



Food banks, legal assistance, translators and Airbnb offered to Afghan refugees but Haitians seeking political asylum and/or humanitarian relief are whipped and turned away to live in squalor.

Where are the government agencies? Volunteers? Mega-churches? The Haitians at the border are treated this way because of the color of their skin. The only difference between us and them is the false sense of security we have by holding a US passport/permanent residency in this land of sour milk and high fructose corn syrup.


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## Rastafarai (Sep 23, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> It’s too complicated to get into all the details… the situation is truly awful in most of the capital and the surrounding areas, but there is more to the country than Port-au-Prince; and there is a serious mismatch between the country’s resources and needs vs. what people are willing to do.


I've most recently tried to research and understand the complex history of Haiti and I am convinced Haiti is paying for being the first African nation to liberate itself from colonialism. Its one of the wealthiest countries in the Western Hemisphere but Uncle Sam, France and other G10 countries continue to play their dirty games in controlling all the wealth while installing puppets to do their bidding. I don't know the solution here, but I'm curious to know why other Caribbean and African nations have not stepped up to offer asylum to those fleeing Haiti.


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## Theresamonet (Sep 23, 2021)

Kanky said:


> I think that the Haitians need to go home.  They will come here and then talk crap about AA’s like Joy Reid. No thank you and go fix your own country instead of coming to the one that we fixed.
> 
> ETA: They should offer them the Covid-19 vaccine before they send them back since we have extra.



AA’s seem to refuse to get the message that ‘all skinfolk ain’t kinfolk’.

All the AA’s on my timeline talking about “look how they do _us_ when _we_ try to come here!”, doesn’t sit right with me. Who is US??? Who is WE?? 

I don’t like that our gov. agencies continue to treat people attempting to gain access to our country like animals. Mexicans in cages, Haitians getting whipped… There has to be a way to discourage migrants without dehumanizing them. We can agree that this is poor treatment, but that doesn’t mean we need to advocate for their entrance because they have black skin.


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## silverbuttons (Sep 23, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> The colossal waste of money really makes me so upset… it is so shortsighted. 12,000 people spending, on average, $10,000 each to arrive at the border. That is 120 million dollars! Collectively, that is an astronomical sum for Haiti. The micro-lender NGOs in Haiti give their clients loans of $100 (or less!) to start small businesses. Now the migrants are deported back with less than they had when they left the Haiti 5, 10 or 15 years ago to go to Brasil, Chile, etc. I wish there were an investigation into the WhatsApp and social media messages that were circulating to encourage people to make this insane trip - those at the origin of those messages are the cruelest criminals. Brazil and especially Chile also are fault; both were handing out visas like candy a few years back, knowing full well they had no intention of allowing Haitians immigrants to permanently settle in their countries.
> 
> Haitians have to stop fleeing to other countries, particularly the United States and the Dominican Republic, as the solution to the country’s problems. That first generation that fled Duvalier in the 1960s and early 1970s set such a terrible precedent; later generations have focused only on the relative material stability/comfort attained elsewhere, and the reliability of remittances, while ignoring the long years of unresolved immigration status, economic hardship and deep regrets among many. But the United States has been sending a consistent message since the Reagan era - Haitians are not welcome, period. Not in the early 1980s, when Haitian bodies were washing up on the Florida coast, after overloading tiny fishing boats… not in the early-mid 1990s, when Haitians were locked up at Guantanamo… and certainly not after traversing South and Central American in 2021. Haitians en masse have always been deported back over the past four decades. In recent years (pre-Covid), even some middle/upper-middle class Haitians with no desire to settle in the U.S. have not been able to obtain or renew tourist visas to visit family. What on earth possessed this group to think the outcome would be any different this time?



absolute truth.


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## yamilee21 (Sep 24, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> I've most recently tried to research and understand the complex history of Haiti and I am convinced Haiti is paying for being the first African nation to liberate itself from colonialism.


Absolutely. The U.S. and Europe will never forgive us for this, and have spent the past 217 years doing everything they can to undermine that independence. Unfortunately, for the past century, they have found enough Haitians willing to collaborate in the undermining of their own country, as long as it benefited their pockets. 


Rastafarai said:


> … I don't know the solution here, but I'm curious to know why other Caribbean and African nations have not stepped up to offer asylum to those fleeing Haiti.


As I posted earlier, other Caribbean countries do not welcome Haitians, with similar kinds of deportation taking place. But these migrants don’t really want to settle in the Caribbean and Africa… these were people already resettled in Brazil and Chile and some other Latin American countries, albeit without permanent status there, as many had expired visas and could not regulate their status. What many did is the equivalent of taking all your savings and spending it on lottery tickets - there is always a chance you could win, but it is highly unlikely.


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## Kanky (Sep 24, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> @Kanky Help me remember what Joy said about AAs. I feel like I heard it but don’t remember. All that comes to mind is her talking about how successful black immigrants are compared to AAs and it rubbing me the wrong way but I think there’s more.


I wish that I could find the video. But during a news story about the protests and riots she started talking about how immigrants were harder working, more successful and committed fewer crimes than African Americans. It wasn’t the first time she’d made comments comparing immigrants to AAs in a way that undermined our struggle against racism.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Sep 24, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> My perspective comes from being Haitian and watching the same thing happen over and over again. It’s so frustrating; people in Haiti who want to leave are so focused on leaving that they don’t hear anything that diaspora tell them about the realities of immigration. When the previous administration was becoming even harder on undocumented immigrants, a lot of Haitians went to Quebec, where they were processed more humanely… but the vast majority were/are still subject to deportation, even the ones deemed “heroes” for working in understaffed nursing homes during the worst of the pandemic. Every time there is a whisper of political trouble in DR, the government distracts by rousing up nationalist sentiments and deporting Haitians and Haitian descendants by the tens of thousands. The Bahamas does the same. Haiti was invited to join Caricom, but Haitians aren’t allowed to travel without visas to member nations the way citizens of all the other countries can. No country wants Haitian immigrants in the quantities Haitians wish to emigrate.
> It’s too complicated to get into all the details… the situation is truly awful in most of the capital and the surrounding areas, but there is more to the country than Port-au-Prince; and there is a serious mismatch between the country’s resources and needs vs. what people are willing to do.


Is Haiti like Guyana? Where almost 50% or more of its citizens actually live OUTSIDE their home country? I read that like 780K live in Guyana and like 500K live abroad with more and more people leaving annually?

It feels like the people of Haiti are fine with holding down their country outside its borders. And whats happened there is very sad. It feels like the people of Haiti don't believe THEY can keep it together.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Sep 24, 2021)

Kanky said:


> I wish that I could find the video. But during a news story about the protests and riots she started talking about how immigrants were harder working, more successful and committed fewer crimes than African Americans. It wasn’t the first time she’d made comments comparing immigrants to AAs in a way that undermined our struggle against racism.


I think I remember that. Many immigrants come over and have access to way more resources (family members with money, support systems) than AA born and raised here. The average poor AA could not pick up and just leave this country on a whim. Even if desperate. I remember thinking its totally unfair to suggest that just because someone immigrated here, they started with ABSOLUTELY nothing. Its not the same. There is overlap (black immigrants being exposed to racism and discrimination--sometimes also from AA people) but its not the same. The AA experience is unique and complex in a way that's different from immigrants. I just remember thinking her comparison was unfair and mistaken


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## Keen (Sep 24, 2021)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> I think I remember that. Many immigrants come over and have access to way more resources (family members with money, support systems) than AA born and raised here. The average poor AA could not pick up and just leave this country on a whim. Even if desperate. I remember thinking its totally unfair to suggest that just because someone immigrated here, they started with ABSOLUTELY nothing. Its not the same. There is overlap (black immigrants being exposed to racism and discrimination--sometimes also from AA people) but its not the same. The AA experience is unique and complex in a way that's different from immigrants. I just remember thinking her comparison was unfair and mistaken


I agree with this.  It’s not equal comparison.  At the end of the day, we all are black and are judge by the color of our skin.


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## yamilee21 (Sep 25, 2021)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Is Haiti like Guyana? Where almost 50% or more of its citizens actually live OUTSIDE their home country? I read that like 780K live in Guyana and like 500K live abroad with more and more people leaving annually?


No, Guyana is on another level compared to Haiti. There are about 11 million in Haiti, and maybe 2-3 million abroad (more, if counting by the Dominican Republic’s 5+ generations back standard  ).


naturalgyrl5199 said:


> It feels like the people of Haiti are fine with holding down their country outside its borders. And whats happened there is very sad. It feels like the people of Haiti don't believe THEY can keep it together.


This is part of the problem; so many people are so fixated on leaving that they don’t think about what they could actually be doing that would allow them to live. There are actually some amazing initiatives happening in a variety of areas but the stupidity with the government (or lack thereof), the foreign interference and the small group of monopolistic families make development so difficult. That, and the fact that way too much is concentrated in the capital area; decentralizing the country would open up so many possibilities.


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## yamilee21 (Sep 25, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> How do you encourage your own family to make such a trek?


I heard the most heartbreaking story today, in passing, on the radio show, Latino USA. Today’s episode featured the stories of Spanish-speaking migrants - young girls and women, mothers - who are making this same trek through South and Central America, and are currently in Tapachula, Mexico, on the border with Guatemala, awaiting papers and/or an opportunity to get to the US. One of the interviews was with a young Cuban woman named Caridad, who, like many of the Haitians, had first migrated to Brazil. Caridad’s goal was always to reach the US, so when the pandemic made things difficult for migrants living in Brazil, she joined a group of Cubans, Venezuelans and Haitians making the trek north. Somewhere near the Colombian-Panamanian border when they got into the jungle, an armed gang attacked their group. Everything they had remaining was stolen, and the gang selected 3 females among the group, including Caridad and a 13 year old Haitian girl, to be raped. Caridad explained that she was “lucky” - only one of the men raped her. The Haitian child was raped repeatedly by several of the gang members. Then they were let go to continue through the Darien Gap. Caridad was again “lucky,” as she made it through; the little Haitian girl was not - she drowned as they crossed a river.


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 25, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> I heard the most heartbreaking story today, in passing, on the radio show, Latino USA. Today’s episode featured the stories of Spanish-speaking migrants - young girls and women, mothers - who are making this same trek through South and Central America, and are currently in Tapachula, Mexico, on the border with Guatemala, awaiting papers and/or an opportunity to get to the US. One of the interviews was with a young Cuban woman named Caridad, who, like many of the Haitians, had first migrated to Brazil. Caridad’s goal was always to reach the US, so when the pandemic made things difficult for migrants living in Brazil, she joined a group of Cubans, Venezuelans and Haitians making the trek north. Somewhere near the Colombian-Panamanian border when they got into the jungle, an armed gang attacked their group. Everything they had remaining was stolen, and the gang selected 3 females among the group, including Caridad and a 13 year old Haitian girl, to be raped. Caridad explained that she was “lucky” - only one of the men raped her. The Haitian child was raped repeatedly by several of the gang members. Then they were let go to continue through the Darien Gap. Caridad was again “lucky,” as she made it through; the little Haitian girl was not - she drowned as they crossed a river.


Idk what situations people are leaving but I've heard accounts like this before and the dangers of the trek are well known. Women even get on birth control to make sure no pregnancies result from the journey. If they're doing all this, I believe they're leaving worse situations.


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## JudithO (Sep 25, 2021)

Man some of y'all need to work on your empathy for other black folks... People be all excited to see you in positions of power thinking you'll look out for them ... 

All immigration situations are hard and there are often no good solutions. Nobody should be treated like an animal for seeking a better life... not sure the right way forward.


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## yamilee21 (Sep 25, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> Idk what situations people are leaving but I've heard accounts like this before and the dangers of the trek are well known. Women even get on birth control to make sure no pregnancies result from the journey. If they're doing all this, I believe they're leaving worse situations.


As bad as things may be in some parts of Haiti, I simply don’t see that there are no other options besides this trek, for Haitians. I can’t speak for other countries; the stories people tell about escaping gang violence in El Salvador and Honduras sound so much more horrific than anything in Haiti. There isn’t a war going on in Haiti, the gang situation is not in every corner of the country, and many people have ties to areas outside of the capital where they would be safe from the violence of the capital if that was their greatest fear. When life became difficult in Chile, Brazil, etc. to the point of wanting to leave, the $5000, $9000, $17000 they raised or had saved to make the trek could have easily given them a new start somewhere in Haiti outside of Port-au-Prince. Some of the people interviewed upon arrival in Haiti after being deported have admitted as much.

There are allegedly around 20,000 Haitians near the Colombian border with Panama right now, still trying to continue onto the US, despite everything that has happened. I wonder if they were offered money, a comfortable flight back to Haiti and resettlement outside of the capital, how many would take it? How much money would be enough?


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## kimpaur (Sep 25, 2021)

JudithO said:


> Man some of y'all need to work on your empathy for other black folks... People be all excited to see you in positions of power thinking you'll look out for them ...
> 
> All immigration situations are hard and there are often no good solutions. Nobody should be treated like an animal for seeking a better life... not sure the right way forward.


Amen
The main thing is these people are being turned away without even the CHANCE to apply for asylum-something Trump started and is being carried out by Biden
That doesn’t sound remotely just, but it’s not them so it’s cool right?
It’s amazing how some are able to overlook antiBlackness when it doesn’t concern them


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 26, 2021)

Kanky said:


> They still have to go back.
> 
> One of the great things about social media is that a lot of black immigrants showed how they really feel about the people whose hard work let them legally immigrate to this country. Joy Reid threw AAs under the bus from the national platform that she only had because AA’s supported her.* I will also never forget all of the “I can’t vote for Hilary because of what the Clintons did in Haiti” Haitians-Americans who helped Trump get into office. The nastiness of that administration will probably impact my children’s children. I’ve noticed that AAs have been a lot less supportive of immigration issues lately.*
> 
> That being said I am obviously not in favor of anyone being whipped. They need to treat people with dignity and respect as they send them back where they came from. Those border patrol need to be fired along with horses they rode in on.


I just finished reading some of those 2016 threads where I was told I didn't know what I was talking about for saying Trump was going to use Haitian's like toilet paper in exchange for their support.  Months later he literally called they homeland a poo hole country and ended TPS but here we are.

I'm always going to side eye black people running away from a black country for a better life in a white country and then dancing around when the topic comes up about who and what they ran from in the first place.


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## larry3344 (Sep 28, 2021)

Wow, I was totally unaware that this situation had taken place in respect to Haiti recently. Although, I am not surprised by the treatment of Haitians. Same thing had happened to Haitian migrants who tried to come to Canada through clandestine means.

I don't know...this situation is extremely humiliating and dehumanizing, I don't know fully know the situation in Haiti but this stems in part by the lack of political leadership and stability that drive people to escape. What do you do when no one wants you or wants to grant you asylum? 

Haitians need to recoup and work on developing Haiti some way and somehow. We (immigrants) can't all escape to go to the West. Regardless it's a sensitive situation.


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## Keen (Sep 28, 2021)

larry3344 said:


> Wow, I was totally unaware that this situation had taken place in respect to Haiti recently. Although, I am not surprised by the treatment of Haitians. Same thing had happened to Haitian migrants who tried to come to Canada through clandestine means.
> 
> I don't know...this situation is extremely humiliating and dehumanizing, I don't know fully know the situation in Haiti but this stems in part by the lack of political leadership and stability that drive people to escape. What do you do when no one wants you or wants to grant you asylum?
> 
> Haitians need to recoup and work on developing Haiti some way and somehow. We (immigrants) can't all escape to go to the West. Regardless it's a sensitive situation.


I was under the impression Canada treats them (Haiti Migrants) better. Is that not the case? Many flee to Canada when TPS was not being renewed during the Trump administration.


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## larry3344 (Sep 28, 2021)

Keen said:


> I was under the impression Canada treats them (Haiti Migrants) better. Is that not the case? Many flee to Canada when TPS was not being renewed during the Trump administration.


Canada is definitely more diplomatic in handling things generally than the US. We have to keep up with appearances that we are better than the states at least superficially. This was following the deportation fears during the trump administration:









						Haitians Flow Into Canada From The U.S. Amid Renewed Deportation Fears
					

Half of the 14,000 people who crossed into Canada without authorization in the first nine months of 2017 were from Haiti. The end of protected status in the U.S. for Haitians is driving a new surge.




					www.npr.org
				





So yes on one hand Canada has treated Haitians better as opposed to the US but by Canadian standards worse than any other group they have taken in large numbers. But that is par of course for us people of African descent. still I think Haiti needs to self-reflect as a nation because they are being humiliated left right and Center. At some point something’s gotta give.

Also in my humble non-Haitian opinion, I don’t find that Haitians are very united as a people. The classism and wealth inequity in Haiti is extremely bad even by third world standards.


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## yamilee21 (Sep 28, 2021)

Keen said:


> I was under the impression Canada treats them (Haiti Migrants) better. Is that not the case? Many flee to Canada when TPS was not being renewed during the Trump administration.


I posted about how many Haitians who went Canada to request asylum went Trump was going to end TPS ended up working “heroically” in the nursing homes that other health care workers basically abandoned, only to later get deportation orders. Canada isn’t as loud about deporting Haitians, but they have been doing it all along. Quebec had a “deportation crisis” with Haitians as far back as 1974! That was the catalyst for Haitians organizing together in Quebec. Canada can be worse in some ways, because they scoop up as many educated Haitians as they can from Haiti, contributing to brain drain, but make it extremely difficult for them to work in their fields.


larry3344 said:


> Also in my humble non-Haitian opinion, I don’t find that Haitians are very united as a people.


You are sadly right about this; Haitians have always been better at uniting *against* something than uniting *for* something. It was true during the revolution, when groups with initially different goals united against the French, it was true during the American occupation, and it was still true during the Duvalier years, when the diaspora was extremely united. But once the overarching problem is gone, the unity falls apart. Part of the reason traces all the way back to the disparate groups that found themselves with a country that wasn’t quite what any of them envisioned, but there are more recent divisions, including the way the Duvalier regime rewarded the Syro-Lebanese community in a way that allowed them to create monopolies and excessive wealth for themselves while pushing out the traditional intellectual and small-business owner classes; the unfettered access of often racist “missionaries” to every corner of the country, where they spread bizarre ideology and self-hatred; politicians that manipulate followers into polemical resentment and hatred, while secretly affiliating and allying with one another; and the love-hate relationship with the diaspora, with a dependence on remittances, but also resentment, for leaving, for wanting a say in the society, or for returning, especially when the return involves some disruption to the status quo, including at the familial level.


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## larry3344 (Sep 28, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> I posted about how many Haitians who went Canada to request asylum went Trump was going to end TPS ended up working “heroically” in the nursing homes that other health care workers basically abandoned, only to later get deportation orders. Canada isn’t as loud about deporting Haitians, but they have been doing it all along. Quebec had a “deportation crisis” with Haitians as far back as 1974! That was the catalyst for Haitians organizing together in Quebec. Canada can be worse in some ways, because they scoop up as many educated Haitians as they can from Haiti, contributing to brain drain, but make it extremely difficult for them to work in their fields.
> 
> You are sadly right about this; Haitians have always been better at uniting *against* something than uniting *for* something. It was true during the revolution, when groups with initially different goals united against the French, it was true during the American occupation, and it was still true during the Duvalier years, when the diaspora was extremely united. But once the overarching problem is gone, the unity falls apart. Part of the reason traces all the way back to the disparate groups that found themselves with a country that wasn’t quite what any of them envisioned, but there are more recent divisions, including the way the Duvalier regime rewarded the Syro-Lebanese community in a way that allowed them to create monopolies and excessive wealth for themselves while pushing out the traditional intellectual and small-business owner classes; the unfettered access of often racist “missionaries” to every corner of the country, where they spread bizarre ideology and self-hatred; politicians that manipulate followers into polemical resentment and hatred, while secretly affiliating and allying with one another; and the love-hate relationship with the diaspora, with a dependence on remittances, but also resentment, for leaving, for wanting a say in the society, or for returning, especially when the return involves some disruption to the status quo, including at the familial level.


I appreciate your honesty, and the only reason I know this intimately is my ex boyfriend was Haitian and would had a lot of conversations about Haiti and the African community. It truly saddens me how Haitians are treated worldwide. Haiti has a proud history that is being trampled right now.


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## Kanky (Sep 29, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> I just finished reading some of those 2016 threads where I was told I didn't know what I was talking about for saying Trump was going to use Haitian's like toilet paper in exchange for their support.  Months later he literally called they homeland a poo hole country and ended TPS but here we are.
> 
> I'm always going to side eye black people running away from a black country for a better life in a white country and then dancing around when the topic comes up about who and what they ran from in the first place.


I remember that and I was amazed that they didn’t see it coming.

 Anyway I suggest that they figure out how to fix the mess in Haiti because running isn’t going to work. Everyone can’t leave.  Also earthquake resistant buildings are a thing. Maybe when rebuilding they can put up something that isn’t just going to fall down again in couple of years.


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## yamilee21 (Sep 29, 2021)

Kanky said:


> I remember that and I was amazed that they didn’t see it coming.


A tiny but loudly annoying sub-section of the Haitian community based in Miami was pro-Trump. The majority of Haitian-Americans eligible to vote who actually voted, voted for Clinton in 2016, and Biden in 2020. That is clearly visible by the maps of voting results; there aren’t any Republican voting areas that also have large Haitian populations. As a group, the majority of Haitians knew better than to expect anything from Trump. The few who believe in him are as ridiculous as Clarence Thomas, and are rarely involved in the community.


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## Keen (Sep 29, 2021)

Kanky said:


> Also earthquake resistant buildings are a thing. Maybe when rebuilding they can put up something that isn’t just going to fall down again in couple of years.


That requires money which the people most impacted don't have. That's like saying healthy food is a thing, just eat healthy.


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 29, 2021)

I don't say this with any ill intent or shade but how do Haitians here, or anywhere outside of Haiti living in better circumstances, feel justified telling other Haitians to stay put?


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 29, 2021)

Keen said:


> That requires money which the people most impacted don't have. That's like saying healthy food is a thing, just eat healthy.


Is it that the resources to fund infrastructure don't exist or that domestic corruption prevents progress?


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## Keen (Sep 29, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Is it that the resources to fund infrastructure don't exist or that domestic corruption prevents progress?


Both


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## yamilee21 (Sep 29, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> I don't say this with any ill intent or shade but how do Haitians here, or anywhere outside of Haiti living in better circumstances, feel justified telling other Haitians to stay put?


Most don’t; that is why countless thousands of Haitians have drowned trying to reach Florida on overcrowded fishing boats, and why dozens, if not hundreds, are dying in South and Central American at this very moment. Also, not all Haitians living abroad are in better socioeconomic  circumstances than they would have been in Haiti… sometimes political exile simply ends up lasting a little too long to make return feasible. But there is also some evidence that many rural Haitians who relocated to DR are actually worse off than if they had remained home as subsistence farmers.


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## yamilee21 (Sep 29, 2021)

On the earthquake resistant rebuilding… local radio and other sources in the areas affected by the August 14th quake have been trying to get people to wait until buildings are inspected for damage before attempting any repairs, and not to reuse materials from destroyed buildings. But there aren’t enough inspectors to do this quickly enough, especially in the less accessible places, so buildings with “light” damage were already being “repaired” within a few days, and debris was already being recycled. It’s a never-ending cycle of preventable tragedy.


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## Black Ambrosia (Sep 29, 2021)

yamilee21 said:


> Most don’t; that is why countless thousands of Haitians have drowned trying to reach Florida on overcrowded fishing boats, and why dozens, if not hundreds, are dying in South and Central American at this very moment. Also, not all Haitians living abroad are in better socioeconomic  circumstances than they would have been in Haiti… sometimes political exile simply ends up lasting a little too long to make return feasible. But there is also some evidence that many rural Haitians who relocated to DR are actually worse off than if they had remained home as subsistence farmers.


Are you in the States? Does the comment about political exile lasting too long to make return feasible apply to you?


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## TrulyBlessed (Sep 30, 2021)




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