# Guidance Re Oral Sex



## upandcoming (Aug 29, 2009)

Hey LHCF,

I am asking you to please pray for some of my friends right now and even or me. Three of my friends recently entered relationships. Two of them are new to relationships. Both are Chrisitan. One is abstaining just fine, the other one recently told me that she engaged in oral ahem. She doesn't feel guilty about it and think its okay.

I know someone else who is devout who engaged in oral sex with her boyfriend. She claimed that the Biblical translations into English only meant intercourse, not oral. I'm one to think that not one hint of sexual immorality is okay. What this means specifically, I'm not sure. However, I know that based on Corinthians and various other readings, we really should keep our bodies pure for our husbands.

This does not mean that we can't repent - obviously we can. However, if at all possible just try and avoid it. My confusion here lies in her thinking it's okay to do this, and also other Christian women who think its okay. 

I think intimacy is important in a relationship. I know some people don't kiss, but I definitely have (two people - former boyfriends) and cuddled, held hands, etc. But I try to keep it to a limit because I know one thing can lead to another etc....

Sigh


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## Shimmie (Aug 29, 2009)

Cutting to the 'chase'.  "Your Friend is in sin."  Period.  

Primarily, the act of Sexual encounter involves the contact our anatomy, our sexual body parts.  To touch, feel, to 'uncover', which is to even look upon is sexual.   If it brings an arousal, it's sexual.   There's no other way to define it.

Your friend is satisfying her sexual desires, period.  She's allowed hesself to become interactive sexually and sexual interaction is sexual intercourse.  

She needs to also consider the dangers of oral STD's.  It's so previlant among teens who engage in oral sex.  In the City of Baltimore, MD, it has been reported to have the highest rate of teens in our country who have contracted  Oral gonorhea, Oral herpes virus, sypphillis, HIV... and she (your friend)  she's not safe from any of this.     

Now, she has one of two choices.  To stop and repent on her own, or endure the consequences of satan's deceptiion.  It could be a disaster to her life and her health, let alone her precious soul and her reputation.  Guys talk.  They talk alot and I have no doubt he is talking about your friend to his friends.   

When it comes to oral sex and singles, they are going through an awful lot of extra 'work' just to get around sin and still be in sin with not only the act, but by adding lying to themselves and to everyone else that it's not a sin.   It is what it is... sin.  

I will pray for you and your friends.  She needs to stop it ... now!


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## CinnaMocha (Aug 29, 2009)

upandcoming said:


> I think intimacy is important in a relationship. I know some people don't kiss, but I definitely have (two people - former boyfriends) and cuddled, held hands, etc. *But I try to keep it to a limit because I know one thing can lead to another etc....*
> Sigh



Believe me, I know, it's a daily struggle, if not hourly...I just have to keep asking the Lord for help in recent times...I've been working on it and trying to do right is a major effort...



Shimmie said:


> She needs to also consider the dangers of oral STD's.  It's so previlant among teens who engage in oral sex.  In the City of Baltimore, MD, it has been reported to have the highest rate of teens in our country who have contracted  Oral gonorhea, Oral herpes virus, sypphillis, HIV... and she (your friend)  she's not safe from any of this.



 Just the thought that you have to consider even oral STD's now is so alarming...But as you stated, Shimmie, people are doing so much more to just to say they are not engaging in the act of sex...


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## kayte (Aug 29, 2009)

LHCF..
_please pray for friends engaging in intimate relations
without marriage and without protection 
and who are in denial about what contitiutes "sex_"  

if _prayer_  and _repentance_ was your request


> engaged in oral ahem


then graphics of variety is of unimportance...OP 
God does not need a diagram..perhaps....maybe some of us don't either


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## ladykaya (Aug 29, 2009)

I was one who thought that way. I only had penetration with my husband but thought that oral was ok. Before I got married to my husband I realized that I was wrong in my acts and repented. Now that I am in a proper Christian marriage I am very happy with my husband and the fact that God does forgive us of our sins. My suggestion is to give you friends encouragement but don't judge them about their actions. If they serve God well they will learn from watching you do the right thing, encouraging them to do right, and showing them proof in the word.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 29, 2009)

upandcoming said:


> She claimed that the Biblical translations into English only meant intercourse, not oral. I'm one to think that not one hint of sexual immorality is okay.



!!! And you are right to be worried about them.  

Sex is not just penal-vaginal-anal contact...it's oral.  French kissing can be considered sex.  Hot petting can be considered sex.  Afterall, any contact and penetration into someone's body is sexual in nature, rubbing up against another's genitalia, touching breasts and buttocks and groins, becoming aroused.  

It's funny when we all get into these "translations."   Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.  What does it matter?  What is the content?  That's why I think it's incredibly important to the know the cultural context in which the bible was written.  It's a Jewish book!  It's a middle-eastern orientation.  Do you think women even held hands with men then?  NO!!!!!!!!!!!!  NOt even today for those women who value their reputations. You wouldn't dare touch a woman who wasn't your wife...and you'd never touch her in public even if she were!  They had no physical contact whatsoever with men not their husbands...only close family.  Anything of a sexual nature, well....is...simply....SEX!  

Ask your friends this.  If they masturbated and their parents walked into the room, would they be embarassed?  Therefore, if they are rubbing against each other, naked, having oral sex and in a compromising position..and *Jesus walked physically right into the room*....would they be ashamed and embarassed?  Let's be completely honest here.

Disclaimer:  My post is definitely graphic to illustrate the point.  Some kids do not comprehend verbal direction, so paddling on the behind drives the point home after repeat offenses.  People having oral sex are confused as to what constitutes sex.  Maybe graphics ARE necessary.  Our bodies are not filthy, neither is the sex act itself...it's illicit when done outside the confines of marriage because the intention is selfishness, self-gratification.


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## Shimmie (Aug 29, 2009)

ladykaya said:


> I was one who thought that way. I only had penetration with my husband but thought that oral was ok. Before I got married to my husband I realized that I was wrong in my acts and repented.
> 
> Now that I am in a proper Christian marriage I am very happy with my husband and the fact that God does forgive us of our sins.
> 
> My suggestion is to give you friends encouragement but don't judge them about their actions. If they serve God well they will learn from watching you do the right thing, encouraging them to do right, and showing them proof in the word.


 
Your testimony is a beautiful blessing and so are you.  We've all been in challenging situations and for the Grace of God, we each came through. 

I agree, we cannot be judgmental, everyone wants to be loved.  However, before this sin judges them (and it will) they have to be admonished with the facts and the dangers they are involved in regarding their health and safety.   

Oral sex unfortuately has no safety barriers, especially if they are not in a commited and exclusive realtionship, barring also that no one else has been with another person.  *They need to be 'sat' down with a firm admonition of the dangerous activity that they are involved in.*   It could actually mean their actual lives. 

My concern is that this is a new experience for these young girls and the men they are with have had previous encounters with others, which means the chances of them being infected is high.    

Being encouraging won't help here.  They need to snatched out this firey furnance before they become ashes.   It is just that serious and I literally 'fear' for them.  I truly fear for them in my heart.   I fear because this has become an addictive deception among so many people, especially our teens and even younger.   It's these women who need to set the example for our younger generation, rather than someone setting an example for them.  Others are following right behind them into disaster.

Lord, we need your mercy... :Rose:


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 29, 2009)

kayte said:


> LHCF..
> _please pray for friends engaging in intimate relations
> without marriage and without protection
> and who are in denial about what contitiutes "sex_"
> ...




Please forgive me forehandedly.  I disagree with this response because people need xyz definitions in this world.  I needed them.  There is nothing about our bodies we should be ashamed of because they were created by G-d.  If you had cancerous vaginal lesions (G-d forbid for anybody) or penile tumors, and you asked G-d to heal you...would you ask if He could heal your netherlands?  You'd be specific.  This is a very serious issue, a serious question and it was worded perfectly.  Please let's not put shame into every question asked about sex.  We are flesh and blood humans with genitalia...and sincere questions.  We are all adults here and if we feel embarassed like puritans, we need skip this thread.  You're right, G-d doesn't need a diagram..but He does often require honesty and candor.  I see nothing wrong with OP's post.


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## Shimmie (Aug 29, 2009)

Sound the Alarm...

​http://www.missthemess.com/_data/adult/resources/Oral_Sex.pdf

​*Editorial:   *_[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Adolescents and the Dangers of Oral Sex 
_[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]By Joe S. McIlhaney, Jr., M.D. 
[/FONT][/FONT] 
Some people say it isn't sex. Well then how come it’s causing the rampant spread of genital herpes among America’s young people? 

*Oral sex is very popular among teens as young as thirteen.* 

Young girls and boys participating in this kind of activity is said to be a common sight at parties of middle schoolers. 

*The saddest part is that they don’t believe they are having sex.* 

Many really think they are protected from the emotional and physical consequences of early sexual activity because, after all, "it’s just oral sex." 

But a study out of the University of Wisconsin has shown the impact of the oral sex rage. There are two basic types of herpes – one kind transmitted orally and the second transmitted through genital contact. 

In other words, orally transmitted herpes generally stays transmitted mouth to mouth and genitally transmitted herpes generally stays transmitted genital to genital. Studies conducted over the past 20 years have shown that only about 25 percent of the orally transmitted herpes shows up in the genitals. 

Now, at least according to the research out of the University Wisconsin, the ratios have reversed. Of students at that university who were newly infected with genital herpes in 2001, 78 percent had the type usually associated with oral transmission, but in the genital area. 

*Simply put, these data show that young people are suffering the consequences of their false sense of security of this form of "not" sex. *

Oral sex has become a predominant mode of transmission and spread of the most troubling form of herpes – genital herpes. While less than 10 percent of individuals who have genital herpes even know they have the virus, fully 85 percent of these individuals can still spread the virus. In addition to causing painful symptoms in some infected individuals, herpes can also increase the risk of contracting HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

*It’s time we started warning our kids about oral sex*. 

No parent can stomach picturing his or her sweet, 15-year-old daughter giving oral sex to some high school boy. But it’s happening, and these oral sex parties include the "good kids". 

There’s lots of peer pressure to do it because, after all, it’s supposedly not sex and it’s supposedly just a safe, pleasurable activity. And if you do it, girls get convinced, that boy will really like you. Parents who can’t imagine their son or daughter involved, just might be shocked. 

And we need to warn them about more than just herpes and other diseases – which are scary enough. The emotional consequences of oral sex can be just as traumatizing to a teenager as intercourse -- especially to girls. There are the same feelings of being used, of low self-esteem, of degradation.

Oral sex – it’s sex, for sure. The disease rates are proving it. And the teenagers feeling emotionally used, they are proving it as well. 

----------------------------
_[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Joe S. McIlhaney, Jr., M.D., is president and founder of The Medical Institute for Sexual Health. A non-profit medical organization based in Austin, Tex., The Medical Institute was founded in 1992 to confront the worldwide epidemics of nonmarital pregnancy and sexually transmitted infection with incisive health care data. 
_[/FONT][/FONT]


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 29, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Many really think they are protected from the emotional and physical consequences of early sexual activity because, after all, "it’s just oral sex."
> 
> But a study out of the University of Wisconsin has shown the impact of the oral sex rage. There are two basic types of herpes – one kind transmitted orally and the second transmitted through genital contact. _[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]
> [/FONT][/FONT]_




Following the commands lead to life with nice perks.  But it's a sad day when we need to warn about the health dangers of illicit behaviors and it practically becomes the only reason people abstain.  Whatever happened to "I am the L-rd your G-d.  You will have no other G-ds before Me?"  Why is that not enough for mankind?  Even though I am a failing human being....this breaks my heart, Shimmie!


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## Shimmie (Aug 29, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Please forgive me forehandedly. I disagree with this response because people need xyz definitions in this world. I needed them. There is nothing about our bodies we should be ashamed of because they were created by G-d. If you had cancerous vaginal lesions (G-d forbid for anybody) or penile tumors, and you asked G-d to heal you...would you ask if He could heal your netherlands? You'd be specific.
> 
> This is a very serious issue, a serious question and it was worded perfectly. Please let's not put shame into every question asked about sex. We are flesh and blood humans with genitalia...and sincere questions. We are all adults here and if we feel embarassed like puritans, we need skip this thread. You're right, G-d doesn't need a diagram..but He does often require honesty and candor. I see nothing wrong with OP's post.


 


Thanks GV.  Our OP,  (Screen Name:_ Upandcoming)_, needed to put this out here to get some serious help for a serious situation for the people in her life that she cares about.

This is a very scarey situation and it needed to be addressed for her and God only knows who else.  

*To:  Upandcoming: *I hope that I haven't scared you away with my replies.  I understand and care about you and your friends.  Your post is very clear and very sincere; it is a heart cry for the safety of your friends.  

I have a great deal of respect for you and what you have shared on your heart with us.  There are many members here who will love and help you through this.   Be blessed.  :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Aug 29, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Following the commands lead to life with nice perks. But it's a sad day when we need to warn about the health dangers of illicit behaviors and it practically becomes the only reason people abstain. Whatever happened to "I am the L-rd your G-d. You will have no other G-ds before Me?" Why is that not enough for mankind? Even though I am a failing human being....this breaks my heart, Shimmie!


 
:Rose:  I know GV, it breaks my heart too.  GV, the babies (young children and teens) are doing things like this.  Before they are even young adults, they will have contracted and passed on diseases that you and I and others in our generation are still just 'reading' and hearing about from others. 

In other words, they have the diseases that we were 'saved' from.  This is sad; a sad tragedy.


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## Shimmie (Aug 29, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> !!! And you are right to be worried about them.
> 
> Sex is not just penal-vaginal-anal contact...it's oral. French kissing can be considered sex. Hot petting can be considered sex. Afterall, any contact and penetration into someone's body is sexual in nature, rubbing up against another's genitalia, touching breasts and buttocks and groins, becoming aroused.
> 
> ...


 
I totally agree.    Excellent post.

These days, 'kids' know more details and graphics than we do.  It's their dialect and therefore to get to the truth of the matter, to get through to them, we have to speak the truth and not play games.   Move the hedges and get straight to the facts.  Life is serious!


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## Shimmie (Aug 29, 2009)

CinnaMocha said:


> Believe me, I know, it's a daily struggle, if not hourly...I just have to keep asking the Lord for help in recent times...I've been working on it and trying to do right is a major effort...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
You know what?  And I'm serious when I say this.  But I blame Bill Clinton's response regarding Monica Lewinsky, for this.   They were having oral sex and he clearly denied it by saying that it wasn't sex or by saying he did not have sex with 'that woman.' 

Since then, those words have taken on a life of their own.  It has everyone in sexual denial.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 29, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> :Rose:  I know GV, it breaks my heart too.  GV, the babies (young children and teens) are doing things like this.  Before they are even young adults, they will have contracted and passed on diseases that you and I and others in our generation are still just 'reading' and hearing about from others.
> 
> In other words, they have the diseases that we were 'saved' from.  This is sad; a sad tragedy.



I am so happy that OP is such a person to truly seek help for her friends...that is a true friend who loves them.  But this also leads me to have a different kind of a talk with my children.  According to what is happening these days...children 10 and even younger, having sex!...I'm going to have to delineate, fully explain what is allowable and what is not.  We have largely failed the next generation!!!

I can no longer take it for granted they comprehend according to scripture.  I'm shocked to action.  This explains so much why our youth are in such serious trouble...and I'm talking folks much less responsible than the friends mentioned.  I saw them daily in pharmacy.  I can only hope and pray as well as teach my children what G-d requires of us.  We've become so "westernized," "modernized" and "feminized" that we no longer regard the so-called outdated social structure of the past.  People, not prim(itive) tribal peoples who do cover themselves in modesty...just differently...wearing pasties in THIS society...we're half naked in public.  Even the most tribal bushmen dares cover himself in modesty, according to his tradition.  We don't care about our own social mores anymore.  

Every pendulum swings back to the opposite extreme side and in this day and age, maybe it will be a welcomed change to protect us from 1)spiritual harm and 2)physical disease.  But I'd hope that the world would console the heart of Jesus, the loneliest person in the universe!  According to everyone's understanding...follow G-d.  If we looked to G-d first, did what He asked...then through doing, we gain more spiritual understanding through time.  Written on every heart.  It makes me look at myself in every aspect and see the stripes I've put into His flesh so carelessly.  So, I'm not judging...I am moved to see His Sacred Heart and how it still bleeds for us.

Right on point about Bill Clinton!!!!!   How dare he lie to his wife and G-d that he wasn't having sex!  How dare he lie to Monica's face that they weren't engaging in sex...with "_that_ woman"  And people wonder why folks do not ease up when a man has sex.  It was adulterous sex.  He is a leader...and has inadvertenly mislead millions of young people to follow his actions and dismiss it as just a little human behavior.  Yes, it is.  But it certainly has consequences.

I know I kinda tripped out about this.  My kids are getting older and I'm frankly scared about this world....but most afraid they will lose faith in G-d.  It's around us everyday.  The body?  You can have that...but if my soul is condemned??  G-d forbid.


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## Shimmie (Aug 29, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I am so happy that OP is such a person to truly seek help for her friends...that is a true friend who loves them. But this also leads me to have a different kind of a talk with my children. According to what is happening these days...children 10 and even younger, having sex!...I'm going to have to delineate, fully explain what is allowable and what is not. We have largely failed the next generation!!!
> 
> I can no longer take it for granted they comprehend according to scripture. I'm shocked to action. This explains so much why our youth are in such serious trouble...and I'm talking folks much less responsible than the friends mentioned. I saw them daily in pharmacy. I can only hope and pray as well as teach my children what G-d requires of us. We've become so "westernized," "modernized" and "feminized" that we no longer regard the so-called outdated social structure of the past. People, not prim(itive) tribal peoples who do cover themselves in modesty...just differently...wearing pasties in THIS society...we're half naked in public. Even the most tribal bushmen dares cover himself in modesty, according to his tradition. We don't care about our own social mores anymore.
> 
> ...


I'm tripped out too, GV.  Totally tripped out.  

There's an old cliche' that says, _"It scared the 'pants' off me.'_ 

Well let me tell you, this scares the 'pants'* ON* me.  Glued, stapled, taped, but stuck on me, not off.   If that's graphic or TMI, so be it.  This matter with sex is no joke.    

I admire and support your decision to change your discussion on this matter with your children.   I'll be doing the same.   God says to instruct our children with 'wisdom', to train them up in the way that they should go.   They will not be going 'here', not with this.   

Intercessory prayer will also take on a new life.  I'll be in a new direction, by way of the Holy Spirit.  We have to intercede for our children and their friends, current and future.   The wave of the Father's hand has to be over all of us.  Even those who know Jesus, not.   :Rose:


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 29, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm tripped out too, GV.  Totally tripped out.
> 
> There's an old cliche' that says, _"It scared the 'pants' off me.'_
> 
> ...



And I'm gone need a drink just before lololol!  I can hear my teen now..."ewwwww!"  Well, I don't give a rat's behind "ewwww!"


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## upandcoming (Aug 29, 2009)

Wow, thank you for these wonderful responses. My friends and I are actually no longer teens :/ LOL, we're all actually in our 20s. We've just really tried to remain celibate and unfortunately my parents were never really open about sex, so in that regard I have a lot of catching up to do. I was also raised Catholic, so you know how that goes...

I definitely told them how I felt, and why I felt that way. One said "You're right. It's sex" and I think will no longer do it. Not sure though. I was very shocked when she told me, because up until that she was pretty innocent (no experience whatsoever in 20s). 

However, the other one still disagrees with me. She actually broke up with her boyfriend, who she was engaged to and dated him for three years before their engagement.  I worry that she'll do so with the next guy because she STILL thinks its okay.

Thanks for your prayers. It's tough out there.


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## Almaz (Aug 30, 2009)

Shimme Cousin GV and Up and coming I truly TRULY thank you from the bottom of my heart for this. Because as you know I volunteer at a Women's Center in Chicago and Lake County where I live and I see this all the time in young women and girls engaging in this behaviour and it breaks my heart because again THEY think that there is nothing wrong with this and I think that it is. The other women are so busy teaching safe sex and I am advocating NO sex but I am constantly shut down because the other (WHITE) women Yes I said it at that center are like WELL the girls are going to have sex ANYWAY so might as well teach them safe sex.

OUTSIDE of a faithful G-d loving/fearing monagamous marriage THERE IS no such thing as safe sex. What I am trying to convey to these women and girls is that you should have respect for the body that G-d gave you. It is a BEAUTIFUL vessel. A beautiful vessel that G-d has blessed you with and please have respect for it. Don't let the crazy media and the knucklehead boys and men try and tell you that there is something WRONG with you BECAUSE you are not engaging in sex. If the man really loves you and really cares he will MARRY you. NOT just use you as a sperm respeticle or a mastabatory tool because that is all you are in his eyes. 

I try to tell them think of all the conseqences of your actions from engaging in this behaviour. 

Some of you already have children and STD's as a result. Please spend your time making a better life for yourself. Please spend time on taking care of your family and trying to build a better future for you child/ren. But sometimes I feel like I am talking to deaf ears.

Sometimes I feel like giving up and letting it go. Because it seems that Oral Sex is the new good night kiss and Anal sex is NOT really considered sex because as some of the girls and women put it you can't get pregnant with this action. 

As I read this I thank you and Kayte and all of  your wholeheartedly because I am encouraged to keep going. Maybe if I can touch ONE life to make a better way for ONE young girl or women then maybe I have done something worthwhile.

I wish you were all here with me. Can I copy this and take it to the center for the next's month lecture. This is wonderful. 

Thanks


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## Shimmie (Aug 30, 2009)

Almaz said:


> Shimme Cousin GV and Up and coming I truly TRULY thank you from the bottom of my heart for this. Because as you know I volunteer at a Women's Center in Chicago and Lake County where I live and I see this all the time in young women and girls engaging in this behaviour and it breaks my heart because again THEY think that there is nothing wrong with this and I think that it is. The other women are so busy teaching safe sex and I am advocating NO sex but I am constantly shut down because the other (WHITE) women Yes I said it at that center are like WELL the girls are going to have sex ANYWAY so might as well teach them safe sex.
> 
> OUTSIDE of a faithful G-d loving/fearing monagamous marriage THERE IS no such thing as safe sex. What I am trying to convey to these women and girls is that you should have respect for the body that G-d gave you. It is a BEAUTIFUL vessel. A beautiful vessel that G-d has blessed you with and please have respect for it. Don't let the crazy media and the knucklehead boys and men try and tell you that there is something WRONG with you BECAUSE you are not engaging in sex. If the man really loves you and really cares he will MARRY you. NOT just use you as a sperm respeticle or a mastabatory tool because that is all you are in his eyes.
> 
> ...


 Almaz, please don't ever give up.  For years, I was the 'laughing stock' of my closest family member (my sister, whom I love dearly) because I chose to remain celibate until marriage.   

This is when you know that you are doing the right thing, all the more; because in spite of the opposition, you keep doing what you know to be right.   God is always with you, even when the battle is most heated.

You're fighting for a cause,_ a just cause_.  I admire you for standing against the lions that roar and mock your love for leading others out of danger.   One day, it may very be, one of the daughters or sons of those who oppose you.


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## Shimmie (Aug 30, 2009)

upandcoming said:


> Wow, thank you for these wonderful responses. My friends and I are actually no longer teens :/ LOL, we're all actually in our 20s. We've just really tried to remain celibate and unfortunately my parents were never really open about sex, so in that regard I have a lot of catching up to do. I was also raised Catholic, so you know how that goes...
> 
> I definitely told them how I felt, and why I felt that way. One said "You're right. It's sex" and I think will no longer do it. Not sure though. I was very shocked when she told me, because up until that she was pretty innocent (no experience whatsoever in 20s).
> 
> ...


 
You're a wonderful person for your friends to have as a friend.  Too many others would have looked the other way and not have taken a stand or sought for prayer and guidance.

I'm smiling now, because I knew you were in your 20's, when you shared your first post.    For what it's worth, I call my mom, Babygirl.


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## Shimmie (Aug 30, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> And I'm gone need a drink just before lololol! I can hear my teen now..."ewwwww!" Well, I don't give a rat's behind "ewwww!"


 
Save one for me, too ...    It'll be a first, but I think this calls for one.   

Dearrrrrrrrrr, Lord!


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## Almaz (Aug 30, 2009)

YOU really know the hard part about it Shimmie, GV Kayte and everyone else it really KILLS me because all the other women that volunteer are not doing it it seems because they REALLY care. Sometimes I think it is just a bunch of Rich White women who have never had a broke day in their life. Went to school to get a MRS. Degree along with the other degree that they may have gotten on their quest for their MRS. Live in the Tony Suburbs or the North Shore of Chicago. Wilmette, Kenilworth, Winnetka, Glencoe, Highland Park, Lake Forest, Lake Bluff. Where they are isolated from all that is wrong in the world. So to them it seems like that are just slumming. I mean what the hell kind of example are they setting for the women and girls especially the girls when they say OH l let my daughters boyfriend spend the night and it is okay with me because I am teaching her responsibility and safe sex since they are going to do it anywayyyyy!!!!!

SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH 

Again WHAT kind of Example are you setting? Sometimes I think they are just Slumming to do their part to say to all their girlfriends at their weekly bridge meeting about how they are helping LaQuisha Jones and Maria Lopez at the center and what great works that they are doing and to get their names in the society pages when the next fundraiser for the center comes up. Again sometimes I want to knock the mess out of these women because they have NO clue and I don't think that they are instilling morals and values. But for this I am called

A PRUDISH OLD-FASHIONED ORTHODOX JEWISH WOMAN who is out of touch with the world. 

WTH.  

When she told me this I was like REALLY Taken aback I was told this JUST before I came home today. 

Okay Prudish and old fashioned just because I dont' think that girls should be out wrangling di.k that does NOT make me old fashioned

Just because I think that marriage and family is the best way to live that does NOT make me out of touch with the world

The other lady at the center told her when I walked out of the room in disgust was like

Dont' say that about Almaz This woman has served in 2 armies Eritrea fighting against the communist and in the IDF. She is a rank below Colonel  He and her cousin Solomon Ezra were the ones that spearheaded the evacuation of Thousands of Ethiopian Jews out of Ethiopia to Israel. She has seen war and destruction of mans inhumanity to man up close. She has done humanitarian work in Afghanistan, India All over Africa and even in Iran. She has tripped all over Africa preaching against Female Genital Mutilation She has been to Dafur. So how is SHE out of touch and old fashioned. 

NOW I never but my business out of front street like that but it was the OTHER Black woman who is that OB/GYN that was there helping also who I asked her to come and lend her services on HER dime out of the goodness of her heart and as a big HUGE favour to me. The white lady was like OHHHH I did NOT KNOW that YOU was a doctor saying to the other black lady and I thought that maybe Almaz was possibly a former client. Then I snapped back hard at her. WAIT first you call me and Prudish old-fashioned Orthodox Jewish woman. When was the LAST time you seen one as a client. 

RIGGGGGHHHHHTTT you silly arse woman because WE OLD FASHIONED women make the right decisions in the first place NOT TO BE A CLIENT HERE STUPID. That was the first time that I lost my cool so now I realise I was just a persona non grata in her eyes and believe me she was in mine. NOW she is being all nice to me but her prescence on this planet was of no validity to me in the first place. REALLY if you want to go there but this is the MAIN on that is saying OH it is OKAY for my 17 year old daughter's boyfriend to come and spend the night because at LEAST I know what she is doing and where she is at and we have such a FANTASTIC relationship. 

Sorry and thank you for letting me vent but is this person such and animal that they cannot control or guide their children properly. I would never allow my teenaged child to bring a SO home and have sex under my roof at ANYTIME in life. I asked her what you do with your children is your business but please leave that at home because the Doctore and I are trying to instill something MORAL because again your daughter is a member of the lucky sperm and egg club they were born to wealthy parents what ever happens to them they can get a slide because they have a backup YOU. A lot of these girls are not in that position. They have no backup and that is why they are here. Since you seem to have all the answers can they come live with YOU. 

Are you going to take the 15 year old girl that just had a baby in January of last year and a baby in October (Irish twins) who is NOW pregnant with her THIRD child because her mother is not around Drugs and her grandmother is so burded with taking care of the other grandchildren she is tired and spent and trying to get their mother who is a crackhead off the streets. Are you going to let the 34 year old woman that just had her EIGHT child come live with you since you have all the answers. Who refuses to get her tubes tied or takeany type of birth control but every new guy she meets she SWEARS this is the one and they are going to make it. No she is not. So I told her to take her progressive arse out of my office. 

And all this is AFTER she came in with a proposal for someone from Planned Parenthood to teach about Condoms and Sexual Activity. But shut down MY proposal on teaching abstinence. If you have one you should have the other. NOW I am not saying that the PP class should NOT be taught but again what about the other class. 

When you are a teenager sex should be the LAST thing on your mind you should be in school getting some type of education. This is a very important pinnicle of your life and the decisions you make can have life changing consequences good or bad. But SINCE they are having sex anyway who cares right. Their fate has already been sealed. Right????? There is no  hope so these girls will forever be having OOW babies and constantly needing help instead of explaining why abstinance is important also. So instead of dealing with dental dams condoms and sex toys and orgasms why not say use that time instead of having sex to study for a class and get some learning under your belt. I understand that sexual and reproductive health is very important but still.

Your thanks and your thoughts


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## Shimmie (Aug 30, 2009)

Almaz said:


> YOU really know the hard part about it Shimmie, GV Kayte and everyone else it really KILLS me because all the other women that volunteer are not doing it it seems because they REALLY care. Sometimes I think it is just a bunch of Rich White women who have never had a broke day in their life. Went to school to get a MRS. Degree along with the other degree that they may have gotten on their quest for their MRS. Live in the Tony Suburbs or the North Shore of Chicago. Wilmette, Kenilworth, Winnetka, Glencoe, Highland Park, Lake Forest, Lake Bluff. Where they are isolated from all that is wrong in the world. So to them it seems like that are just slumming. I mean what the hell kind of example are they setting for the women and girls especially the girls when they say OH l let my daughters boyfriend spend the night and it is okay with me because I am teaching her responsibility and safe sex since they are going to do it anywayyyyy!!!!!
> 
> SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH
> 
> ...


 
  You have a deep passion and call upon your life.  So vent... you have every right to do just that... 'vent.'  You've earned the right to be here,  at peace.     All I can say is God needs more people named Almaz and with your courage and passion for the well being of young girls, women, and men.  

God speaks about those who are 'too rich', it dulls their senses to reality and compassion.  They can 'pay' someone else to 'deal' with the issues of life which they care not to relate to.   Being a volunteer is just as you said, for them it's 'something to do and compare notes with their collegues.  

Side Note:  I was watching the movie "The Pursuit of fHappyness"  (starring Will Smith and his adorable little son, Jaden) .   The people (the Whites in the corporations) had absolutely NO clue what this man had to do and endure, go through just to pursue his Dream and care for his young son.    Absolutely... no clue.     The $5 that his boss asked him for to pay the cab driver, was 'life' to him, but to his boss, it was less, and I mean 'less' than pocket change.   

Those women are in an altitude that escapes reality; it literally escapes life and what it takes to breathe from day to day for others .  It's not their care, it's not their concern, it's not their priority, neither their agenda.   

You Almaz, not only live the reality of life, but you 'live' the reality of others who are the injured, the diseased, the dying.   

The difference between you and those who volunteer to reamain clueless, is that you have God on your side.   And sadly they have a long fall ahead of them, and the distance from their altitude to the ground, (the place of reality), may kill them.  Meaning, they can't handle it.  But you, "Almaz", you can.  You have what it takes to 'adapt' and ground yourself and be secure.   For this we thank God with all of our hearts.  :Rose:


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## Almaz (Aug 30, 2009)

Thank you Shimmie today I was really ready to cry about this and that is something that I don't do. But today I REALLY kind of lost my cool just a tad. But you are right some people don't have a clue and to them its just comparing notes and a photo op.

Thank you so much for your encouragement you dont' know how much that means to me


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## Shimmie (Aug 30, 2009)

Almaz said:


> Thank you Shimmie today I was really ready to cry about this and that is something that I don't do. But today I REALLY kind of lost my cool just a tad. But you are right some people don't have a clue and to them its just comparing notes and a photo op.
> 
> Thank you so much for your encouragement you dont' know how much that means to me


 
Sometimes, you just have to let it vent, too much build up isn't good for our hair growth.  look

  Keep doing 'you'.  You have plenty of 'back-up'...


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## upandcoming (Oct 9, 2009)

She ultimately had sex recently. Wow.


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## Shimmie (Oct 9, 2009)

upandcoming said:


> She ultimately had sex recently. Wow.


 
Keep your focus on Jesus... 

God will take care of her.  Just keep her in prayer and love her as your sister.   It's grieiving, I can only imagine how much, but God is teaching you about life and Ministry.  As Life happens, Ministry prepares itself to heal those who have lost their way.  

Stay strong... :Rose:


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Oct 9, 2009)

Almaz is just like her name, "diamond."  She is selfless, proud, quiet, strong, unassuming, humble, simple yet fabulous, warm and kind.  She sees the depths of a person and is slow to judge.  She gives everyone a chance but she doesn't take injustice lightly.  She's an all-round warrior woman after the hearts of the people.  Her community work itself speaks  loudly but she never will.  Thanks to her, many women have turned their lives around.  She is real, she is my sister.


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## Stacy TheLady (Oct 11, 2009)

Hello All, Greetings and Blessings. I know am not Chrisitan but values and morals are the same.

Oral is sex its just not inter-vaginal (TMI) lol. Any form of sex outside of marriage is fornication. Please give the knowledge to your friend since she may not truly understand or she may be making excuses/justifications to support her behaviour. I am sure there are lots of verses in the Bible that speaks against fornication- highlight them to her gently but sternly.

But i think you should talk to her seriously and pray for her.

Hope its ok if i post. Bye All


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## Shimmie (Oct 11, 2009)

Stacy, what you have shared is truly from the 'heart' of a Chrisitian.  

I wanted to thank you, because your sharing here proves that abstaining from sex outside of marriage is not a Christian 'only' virtue.  It's for all humanity. 

Stacy, God bless you.  :Rose:



Stacy TheLady said:


> Hello All, Greetings and Blessings. I know am not Chrisitan but values and morals are the same.
> 
> Oral is sex its just not inter-vaginal (TMI) lol. Any form of sex outside of marriage is fornication. Please give the knowledge to your friend since she may not truly understand or she may be making excuses/justifications to support her behaviour. I am sure there are lots of verses in the Bible that speaks against fornication- highlight them to her gently but sternly.
> 
> ...


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## Stacy TheLady (Oct 11, 2009)

Ur most welcome..hope i can drop in more often.

Much luv sisters


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## Celestial (Oct 12, 2009)

Is tongue kissing a sin. The tongue or your mouth is not a sexual anatomy. What about kissing and licking breast or licking chest and men's belly. What about licking backs.


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## Stacy TheLady (Oct 12, 2009)

Celestial said:


> Is tongue kissing a sin. The tongue or your mouth is not a sexual anatomy. What about kissing and licking breast or licking chest and men's belly. What about licking backs.


 

Hi Celestial, Everything on a persons body is private until he/she is married, no two ways about it. 

Kissing leads to other things sister and we need to remain steadfast and focused. If we kiss before marriage and hold hands and touch each other then our minds would lose focus and our bodies, marvelously created for love, procreation and other desires, WILL start to yearn for more physical satisfaction and we humans are surely weak.

Keep your body covered and keep it to yourself. We must truly understand what fearing God means. It means that we stick to His word and hope for a reward from Him and stay away from that which disappoints Him out of fear of His wrath.

A man who knows God and truly loves HIm and fears His wrathwill NEVER expect you to show him your body or let him have you. He/she will develp feelings for each other and will want to show it physically etc but one's knowledge & fear of the Creator will prevent them from going further. 

DONt mean to be so long..am sorry, but fasting helps put aside desires and keeps us focused on prayer and worship.

Hold tight ladies. keep your head up..and on God.


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## Celestial (Oct 12, 2009)

Stacy TheLady said:


> Hi Celestial, Everything on a persons body is private until he/she is married, no two ways about it.
> 
> Kissing leads to other things sister and we need to remain steadfast and focused. If we kiss before marriage and hold hands and touch each other then our minds would lose focus and our bodies, marvelously created for love, procreation and other desires, WILL start to yearn for more physical satisfaction and we humans are surely weak.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for this spiritual information. You know, I want to know once a person is married do tongue kissing or licking body parts such as breasts, chest, abdomen are sins. Because people say that only the sexual organs are used for sexual pleasure, hence oral sex is sin. So I'm asking what about the tongue in the mouth or the tongue arousing or seducing the back, breasts, or chest areas.


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## Stacy TheLady (Oct 12, 2009)

In my religion, oral sex is permissible BUT you must not make sexual excretions enter your mouth. this is TMI but i hope thats ok.

A man can engage in oral sex once he does not put his tongue in the cervial opening of the woman. he can fondle the clitoris with his tongue. the woman can perform on her husband once he does not ejaculate in her mouth or no pre ejaculation enters her mouth.

Your spouse is a tilth for you and you can approach them how you wish once it is within these limits. AS we ALL know sex during menses, anal sex and rimming is also a huge NO NO. It is filthy since the anus is for release of waste and menses is a time of purification for women

Other than that sex is an act of charity to one's spouse..and what better way to give charity


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## Shimmie (Oct 12, 2009)

Stacy TheLady said:


> Hi Celestial, Everything on a persons body is private until he/she is married, no two ways about it.
> 
> Kissing leads to other things sister and we need to remain steadfast and focused. If we kiss before marriage and hold hands and touch each other then our minds would lose focus and our bodies, marvelously created for love, procreation and other desires, WILL start to yearn for more physical satisfaction and we humans are surely weak.
> 
> ...


 


Stacy TheLady said:


> In my religion, oral sex is permissible BUT you must not make sexual excretions enter your mouth. this is TMI but i hope thats ok.
> 
> A man can engage in oral sex once he does not put his tongue in the cervial opening of the woman. he can fondle the clitoris with his tongue. the woman can perform on her husband once he does not ejaculate in her mouth or no pre ejaculation enters her mouth.
> 
> ...


 
These are beautiful answers, Stacy.  Beautiful and Virtuous and of God. 

Thank so much for being here and I apologize for not saying this to you before, which is...

:welcome3:  



Stacy, you are indeed quite a Lady... :Rose:


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## Stacy TheLady (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks alot..it's just so nice to know there are righteous women who are trying in this life who i can keep in touch with.


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## Shimmie (Oct 12, 2009)

Stacy TheLady said:


> Thanks alot..it's just so nice to know there are righteous women who are trying in this life who i can keep in touch with.


 
Amen... Precious Sister.   _Amen and Ameen_.


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## golden bronze (Oct 13, 2009)

I think intimacy is important in a relationship. I know some people don't kiss, but I definitely have (two people - former boyfriends) and cuddled, held hands, etc. But I try to keep it to a limit because I know one thing can lead to another etc....

Sigh[/QUOTE]

I will pray for your friends. It is important for you just to pray and be there for them until God gives you an opportunity to witness to them. 

I hope this isn't too personal, but let me share something. 

I have struggled with this myself. When I was younger, and newer in my walk I got involved with a bf who was also a Christian. I allowed myself to be enticed and engage in oral sex. I felt incredibly guilty about it later on, because I knew that I was grieving the holy spirit. 

I was hoping, that I could skirt around the scripture, and have a little comfort, since after all I was a virgin and I wasn't REALLY having sex. Then one day, when I was in act, I literally felt it. My bf was taking from me, he wasn't giving to me. I could feel him taking my peace, and myself allowing it. I realized that not only what we were doing wrong, I realized why it was wrong. It was not loving at all. It was making a bond, a tie with someone that God had not approved, and therefore I was robbing myself of being truly one with him. That is why sexual sin is a sin against yourself. 

It took me years to heal from that relationship. If I had to do it over again, when he called me, and when I answered against my better judgement I would have said no, but the lesson will stay with me forever. It isn't about being a prude, it is about understanding purpose. What you give up isn't worth it.


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## Celestial (Oct 13, 2009)

Stacy TheLady said:


> In my religion, oral sex is permissible BUT you must not make sexual excretions enter your mouth. this is TMI but i hope thats ok.
> 
> A man can engage in oral sex once he does not put his tongue in the cervial opening of the woman. he can fondle the clitoris with his tongue. the woman can perform on her husband once he does not ejaculate in her mouth or no pre ejaculation enters her mouth.
> 
> ...


 
I'm just was curious about the other stuff since it was said that sex is for the sexual anatomy. So I guess kissing or licking on a neck is not sin. Thanks.


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## LovinLocks (Nov 5, 2009)

How about this . . . . I am taught that acts of oral sex are indecent, immoral, nasty, just wrong, wrong, wrong.  Sweetie doesn't agree.  He does not see where/how scripture does NOT condone it [between married folk] and I am one step from beating my head against rafters trying to figure out a way to "convince" him.    The reaaalllly messed up thing . . . I don't get it either-BETWEEN MARRIED folk, that is.  Ay yi yi, so much for me to work on re. myself; just disheartening I tell ya.

*Questions From Readers
*​● Recently in the news was a court decision ruling that oral copulation by adults is no longer punishable by law in a certain state. Would such practice therefore be solely a matter for individual conscience if engaged in by a Christian couple within the marriage arrangement?—U.S.A.

It is not the purpose of this magazine to discuss all the intimate aspects of marital relations. Nonetheless, practices like those involved in this court case have become quite common and have received considerable publicity. Even young children in certain schools are being informed of these things in sex education courses. We would therefore be remiss as regards our responsibility if we held back Scriptural counsel that could aid sincere Christians in their efforts to follow a course of purity calling forth the Creator’s blessing. Unusual sexual practices were being carried on in the apostle Paul’s day and he did not remain silent about them, as can be seen in reading Romans 1:18-27. We are therefore only following his good example in considering this question here.

In discussing sexual practices, the apostle provides us a principle that helps us to reach a right conclusion. He refers to “the natural use of the female,” which some were abandoning in favor of what is “contrary to nature,” thus satisfying “disgraceful sexual appetites” and “working what is obscene.” The apostle specifically deals with homosexual practices, condemning such. But the principle stated—that the satisfying of sexual desires can be “natural” or can be “contrary to nature”—applies just as well to the question under consideration.—See also Leviticus 18:22, 23.
The natural way for a married couple to have sexual relations is quite apparent from the very design given their respective organs by the Creator, and it should not be necessary to describe here how these organs complement each other in normal sexual copulation. We believe that, aside from those who have been indoctrinated with the view that ‘in marriage anything goes,’ the vast majority of persons would normally reject as repugnant the practice of oral copulation, as also anal copulation. If these forms of intercourse are not “contrary to nature,” then what is? That those practicing such acts do so by mutual consent as married persons would not thereby make these acts natural or not “obscene.” Are we being ‘narrow’ or ‘extreme’ in taking such position?

No, as seen by the fact that several states of the United States have for long had laws against precisely such practices, classifying them as forms of “sodomy”—even though those engaging in them are married. Because of this legal usage, Webster’s Third New International Dictionary includes in its definition of “sodomy” this: “carnal copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal or unnatural carnal copulation with a member of the opposite sex; specif: the penetration of the male organ into the mouth or anus of another.” Of course, dictionaries and state laws differ but our position is based primarily upon God’s Word the Bible. Yet such worldly evidence serves a certain purpose, one corresponding in principle to what the apostle said at 1 Corinthians 5:1. There he showed that the sexual relations of one member in the Corinthian congregation were of a kind condemned even by people of the pagan nations. So, the application of the term “sodomy” in modern times to the mentioned forms of copulation shows that we are not unreasonable in saying they are not only “unnatural” but grossly so.

However, since marriage is of divine origin, our conscientious stand on marital relations is not founded on or ruled by worldly views. Therefore the overruling of some state law and the declaring of oral copulation (or similar unnatural copulation) as ‘legal’ does not alter our Bible-based position. In a world of decaying morals we can expect that some law courts may succumb in varying degrees to the growing trend toward sexual perversion, just as some of the clergy and doctors have done.

It is not our purpose to attempt to draw a precise line as to where what is “natural” ends and what is “unnatural” begins. But we believe that, by meditating on Bible principles, a Christian should at least be able to discern what is grossly unnatural. In other areas, the Christian’s individual conscience will have to guide, and this includes questions regarding caresses and ‘love play’ prior to intercourse. (Compare Proverbs 5:18, 19.) But even here the Christian who wants to produce the fruits of God’s holy spirit will wisely avoid practices that approach, or could easily lead one to fall into, unnatural forms of copulation.

What if certain married couples in the congregation in the past or even in recent times have engaged in practices such as those just described, not appreciating till now the gravity of the wrong? Then they can seek God’s forgiveness in prayer and prove their sincere repentance by desisting from such gross unnatural acts.

It is certainly not the responsibility of elders or any others in a Christian congregation to search into the private lives of married couples. Nevertheless, if future cases of gross unnatural conduct, such as the practice of oral or anal copulation, are brought to their attention, the elders should act to try to correct the situation before further harm results, as they would do with any other serious wrong. Their concern is, of course, to try to help those who go astray and are ‘caught in the snare of the Devil.’ (2 Tim. 2:26) But if persons willfully show disrespect for Jehovah God’s marital arrangements, then it becomes necessary to remove them from the congregation as dangerous “leaven” that could contaminate others.—1 Cor. 5:6, 11-13.

What of Christian women married to unbelievers and whose mates insist on their sharing in such grossly unnatural acts? Does the apostle’s statement that “the wife does not exercise authority over her own body, but her husband does” give a wife the basis for submitting to these demands? (1 Cor. 7:4) No, for such husbandly authority is only relative. God’s authority remains always supreme. (1 Cor. 11:3; Acts 5:29) The apostle, furthermore, was speaking of normal sexual relations, as the context indicates. True, refusal to engage in unholy acts may bring hardship or even persecution on a wife, but the situation is the same as if her husband demanded that she engage in some form of idolatry, in misuse of blood, dishonesty or other such wrong.

Millions of married couples throughout the earth, both in the past and in the present, have found that unselfish love brings joy and full satisfaction, for both partners, in marital relations, without resorting to perverted methods. Realizing that a corrupt world is soon to be wiped away, we can think on the words of the apostle Peter, who wrote: “Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah.” Yes, this is not the time to be slipping into, or letting others beguile or pressure us into, unholy practices just to satisfy selfish passion. Not if we truly cherish our hope of living in the fresh, clean new order now so near. (2 Pet. 3:11, 12; Jude 7)

 So, Christian married couples can keep ‘the marriage bed without defilement,’ not only by refraining from fornication and adultery, but also by avoiding defiling, unnatural practices.—Heb. 13:4.


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## upandcoming (Nov 13, 2009)

Well, this is bugging me because she is happily engaging in sex and justifies it because she thinks they'll most likely get married. I've already told her how I felt, but it's difficult for me to much else. At this point I just hope they get married so at least it's only with one person...


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