# Messianic Hebrews/Yisra'el/Nazarenes???



## tsiporah (Dec 23, 2006)

Shabbat shalom (Sabbath peace)

I was wondering if there are any Nazarene/Messianic Hebrews on the forum?


Shalom ha shem Yahusha!!!! (Peace in the name of Yahusha)


----------



## pebbles (Dec 24, 2006)

CaramelMiss is a Messianic Jew. I don't know if there are any others besides the two of you, but I'd love to know them!


----------



## *Happily Me* (Dec 24, 2006)

Cichelle is Jewish as well.  There is another lady but her name escapes me, it  begins with a K but she doen't post as much anymore


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 24, 2006)

Thanks ladies!  Yeah there few of us, we are a small crew usually.


----------



## Bublnbrnsuga (Dec 25, 2006)

DSylla said:
			
		

> Cichelle is Jewish as well.  There is another lady but her name escapes me, it  begins with a K but she doen't post as much anymore



Messianic Jews believe Jesus is the Messiah/savior. Cichelle doesn't. I am not sure what type of Jew she calls herself.


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Dec 25, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Messianic Jews believe Jesus is the Messiah/savior. Cichelle doesn't. I am not sure what type of Jew she calls herself.


Orthodox I believe.


----------



## *Happily Me* (Dec 25, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Messianic Jews believe Jesus is the Messiah/savior. Cichelle doesn't. I am not sure what type of Jew she calls herself.



oh my bad!

i didn't know that.  thanks


----------



## PaperClip (Dec 25, 2006)

What references are available that provide insightful information about Messianiac Judaism? I'd like to know more....

Thank you in advance!


----------



## Cichelle (Dec 25, 2006)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Messianic Jews believe Jesus is the Messiah/savior. Cichelle doesn't.* I am not sure what type of Jew she calls herself.*



   

Too funny. 

BSD 

*B'H*, I'm the type of Jew who is recognized as a Jew by the State of Israel _and_ by Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews worldwide. IOW, I am Jewish according to _halacha_ *AND* I practice the religion known as Judaism, the general beliefs of which can be found here:

What Jews Believe

It is correct that I am not a messianic or any other kind of Christian/believer in JC. Such beliefs are not compatible with my _type_ of Judaism. 

*To each his or her own, blessings and find your bliss and all of that.* But I hope this clears up the mystery about what type of Jew Cichelle calls herself.


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Dec 26, 2006)

I would love to learn more about Messianic Judiasm.  I was aware that there were some who believed Christ is the Messiah.


----------



## PaperClip (Dec 26, 2006)

Cichelle said:
			
		

> Too funny.
> 
> BSD
> 
> ...


 
Cichelle: I have a couple of questions if you wouldn't mind obliging me. I did go to the "What Jews Believe" link you included in your post and these two questions immediately came to mind:

1. If Jews do not believe that one person cannot die for the sins of another person, then whom are the Jews "waiting" for in terms of a savior--if there is a need to have a savior--and, 

2. How will Jews know what this savior will look like?


----------



## gn1g (Dec 26, 2006)

good questions.


----------



## Cichelle (Dec 26, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Cichelle: I have a couple of questions if you wouldn't mind obliging me. I did go to the "What Jews Believe" link you included in your post and these two questions immediately came to mind:
> 
> 1. If Jews do not believe that one person cannot die for the sins of another person, then whom are the Jews "waiting" for in terms of a savior--if there is a need to have a savior--and,
> 
> 2. How will Jews know what this savior will look like?



I'm not sure I'm allowed to go into detail about this on the Christianity forum. I have to go out, but I will be glad to send you a pm with answers later on this evening. Fair enough?


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Dec 26, 2006)

Cichelle said:
			
		

> I'm not sure I'm allowed to go into detail about this on the Christianity forum. I have to go out, but I will be glad to send you a pm with answers later on this evening. Fair enough?


 
I'd like to know this too, Cichelle...please, do share.


----------



## PaperClip (Dec 26, 2006)

Cichelle said:
			
		

> I'm not sure I'm allowed to go into detail about this on the Christianity forum. I have to go out, but I will be glad to send you a pm with answers later on this evening. Fair enough?


 
More than enough. I thank you for taking the time!


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

I am an *Israelite* by the lineage of my fathers side...which is Scriptural,*many of us* are and if anyone wants further knowledge on that please PM me... there is history that is hidden from us.

Some Messianics may make reference to Talmud and others don't  but I personally don't since it is outside of Torah (OT)and the Messianic writings(NT).

Many of those in Traditional Judaism would not recognise me as a "Jew". And I don't seek their approval by people who don't want to recognize me. I do not need papers..
But for the most part I consider myself an Israelite, we are those who are like the Original faith of the Apostles, of the First Century.
Most of us don't rely on man to say what is what but we rely on the Scriptures to say what the definition is. 

*Light of Mashiach*  This web site will give basic understanding.  Not all Messianic hebrews are the same but this will give those who want to know an idea.

Messianic Hebraism is not much different than the *true* traditional Hebraism except that there is belief in Messiah who was crucified, died and rose on the third day--> _(the seventh day on Saturday, because He died on a Wednesday, a requirement of understanding the Feasts of Yahuah will show this and it is the sign of Jonah)_ to return.  ALL Appointed Times of Yah in Lev. 23 point to Messiah.  And many people are beginning to see this.

I will say more later....

Tsiporah


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

Hey sisters....while I am on here....

here is a PDF file  *IgboBeniYisrael*

It will take time to Download and it has pictures.  But this is only a *GLIMPSE* into our true heritage that was hidden by many(ps.38).  These are the same people who were taken and brought here.... I speak Truth.

*let no one* tell you who you are or aren't because you don't have a piece of paper. 

I have emailed them myself and discussed the whole thing with them.


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Dec 27, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> I am an *Israelite* by the lineage of my fathers side...which is Scriptural,*many of us* are and if anyone wants further knowledge on that please PM me... there is history that is hidden from us.
> 
> Some Messianics may make reference to Talmud and others don't but I personally don't since it is outside of Torah (OT)and the Messianic writings(NT).
> 
> ...


I know you said to PM you, but in the spirit of enlightening us all, can you explain what *I highlighted in red*?


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

Okie dokie Stawberry,

I will explain but I must get my scriptures together.  Generally when I want to explain things on this level--I needs my Scripts!!  I believe in using the Scriptures and letting them explain themselves.  

Will be back soon ladies.....

Tsipy


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

Introduction

First of all, let me explain that people outside of Israel were accepted simply by learning the Ways of the Messiah/Nazarenes.  There is no complicate conversion ceremony or paper work--except that your name goes in the Lambs Book of Life in Heaven. Only that one is immersed in a body of water to show that one has changed. ANYONE can become Messianic/Nazarene right in their own living room- nothing complicated.

Let me first show *Acts 15:17-23*

15:17 That the residue of men might seek after 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





,(Yahuah) and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,(Yahuah) who doeth all these things.
15:18 Known unto 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 are all his works from the beginning of the world.
15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:
*15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.*
*15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.*
15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole assembly, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

According original Hebrew thinking, this is the beginners package into Torah lifestyle.  It is currently assumed by many that these are the only things the gentiles are to obey.  But in order for the gentile to be "kosherly" accepted into a synagogue this is what they had to do.  THEN _on each Sabbath_ (Saturday) they would come in and learn bit by bit how to live by Torah and Messiah, the entire book, so to speak, was not thrown at them in one sitting. _(Nazarenes composed of both Israelites as well as gentiles being one in the same Ways.)_

_More to Come..._


----------



## PaperClip (Dec 27, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> I am an *Israelite* by the lineage of my fathers side...which is Scriptural,*many of us* are and if anyone wants further knowledge on that please PM me... there is history that is hidden from us.
> 
> Some Messianics may make reference to Talmud and others don't but I personally don't since it is outside of Torah (OT)and the Messianic writings(NT).
> 
> ...


 
Wow!  I'm browsing the website now and it is very intriguing! This sounds similar to the content of a Messianic(?) rabbi spoke when he came to my Pentacostal/Charismatic church! 

Tsiporah, I have lots of questions but I don't know where to start! Hopefully it's ok for me to ask my first question here since (I think) it's not necessarily about scripture. It's a two-parter:  

Have you always been a Messianic or did you "convert" from another religion/spiritual walk, and if so, do you now see/experience a deeper level of spiritual, how can I say reward/promise/blessing of life as a Messianic?

If you desire to PM the answer, I understand. Thank you in advance for responding!


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 27, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> Introduction
> 
> First of all, let me explain that people outside of Israel were accepted simply by learning the Ways of the Messiah/Nazarenes. There is no complicate conversion ceremony or paper work--except that your name goes in the Lambs Book of Life in Heaven. Only that one is immersed in a body of water to show that one has changed. ANYONE can become Messianic/Nazarene right in their own living room- nothing complicated.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for posting this information.  It's needed and it's long overdue.  .  Please keep sharing.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

*All those who accept Messiah and His Ways* become Israel, in other words one becomes a part of Israel in Messiah!!   
(There is scripture on this, I will find them.)

I wanted to present what I previously stated to show that ALL (black, white, asian, etc.) are accepted by those who want to live.   *Messiah is equal opportunity.*

Nextly ladies, at some point physical Israel was dispersed to the four corners of the globe by General Titus during the Jerusalem siege around AD 70'ish.  I am very much an ancient historian of sorts _with concentrated concerned_ over the ancient parts of Africa.  Many of Israel did go into Africa. (_ I will post ancient depictions later,  since many were mistaken for an Egyptian---please take a look at the computer reconstruction of RamesesII.  Paul(Sha'ul) was mistaken for an Egyptian. 
*Acts 21:38* "Art not thou *that Egyptian*, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?" Think of Moses(Moshe) too and the rest of the people. As well as Abraham.)
_ 
I posted earlier a link to the Igbo Benei Yisrael, they are* physical* descendents of Israel.  Many over the hundreds of years had become muslim and Christian(not Nazarene) and lost who they were but there were pockets who maintained who they were.

I have a friend who is American black and part Igbo- they get called "Hebrews" by non-hebrew peoples in Nigeria. The term Igbo or Ibo is a corruption of the word.. Hebrew(Ibri)

Igbos, Ashanti, and Many other WEST African tribes are also Israel. (I will get a more extensive list later) Many of your infamous West African empires including Timbuktu, were once Israelite.  The term Ashanti is _not_ a Hamitic term. It is purely Aramaic/Hebrew.  *Ashan* means _smoke_ and *ti *means _people of._
Therefore you have *People of Ashan* _(Please read Josh 15:42, you will see the town of Ashan, the Ashanti are probably from Yahudah (Judah)._


It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out once we know this, that many of us are the *same physical descendents* as the Igbo, Ashantis and others. This was prophesied before the time of Messiah to occur that we would be dispersed and our heritage forgotten.  This is why many do not accept us, as "jews".  There is an entire population of people who are currently at the bottom of the totem pole who are the same as Igbos and thus the same as Paul and Moses.  There is more than just the Ethiopian east African contingent.  There is the Central African, Southern African (black) as well as WEST African.  The Lemba people who reside in Central to southern Africa are the TRUE Priests of Aaronic lineage. (Think Aaron the brother of Moses, I sat an watched a show where the PEOPLE THEMSELVES  said, "WE are the TRUE African HEBREWS!!!!" They showed them saying that more than once. I have it on tape and they said so themselves!!!!  They are not my words.

I will be back later...this is YOUR story ladies!!!


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

King Tut to the left and Nefertiti at the bottom (computer reconstruction)


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

Here are some Elamites/Persians

The "balls" of hair are kinky hairs depictions. Be happy with your hair!!!!!


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Dec 27, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> Introduction
> 
> First of all, let me explain that people outside of Israel were accepted simply by learning the Ways of the Messiah/Nazarenes.  There is no complicate conversion ceremony or paper work--except that your name goes in the Lambs Book of Life in Heaven. Only that one is immersed in a body of water to show that one has changed. ANYONE can become Messianic/Nazarene right in their own living room- nothing complicated.
> 
> ...


What are "strangled" things?


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

Here is a picture of a Physical ISRAELITE during ROMAN TIMES!!!!! Look at the 'fro. (Let the Truth be told)



Ancient Semites, check out the fros...be proud of your hair ladies!!!

http://www.lectures.2ya.com/

Modern African Hebrews















More to come....I have one more picture...


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

Strangled means that the animal was literally strangled and not killed properly.  The animal must be killed in a way that the blood is drained out as much as possible.  When an animal is strangled certain hormones are unleashed in the body that aren't good and in turn you eat it.

Our Creator when He created the Instructions for eating is wise.  There are bio-chemical reasons as well as spiritual for eating certain foods and killing them a certain way.  It is not because He simply said so and was being a harsh diety.  There are scientific reasons that many are unaware of.


----------



## *Happily Me* (Dec 27, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> *Strangled means that the animal was literally strangled and not killed properly.  The animal must be killed in a way that the blood is drained out as much as possible.  When an animal is strangled certain hormones are unleashed in the body that aren't good and in turn you eat it.*
> 
> Our Creator when He created the Instructions for eating is wise.  There are bio-chemical reasons as well as spiritual for eating certain foods and killing them a certain way.  It is not because He simply said so and was being a harsh diety.  There are scientific reasons that many are unaware of.



interesting 

thanks for sharing... 

i'm thinking i should eat only halal or kosher meats...


----------



## PaperClip (Dec 27, 2006)

DSylla said:
			
		

> i'm thinking i should eat only halal or kosher meats...


 
I was thinking the same thing... like a New Year's resolution.... but how to begin to do this? How to ask for this in a restaurant?


----------



## alexstin (Dec 27, 2006)

I've heard of the Lemba people.  Anyone ever see "Return to Glory"? It's talks about the same kind of stuff...Egyptians, The lemba people and so on. It talks about how Napoleon shot the nose off the Great Sphinx because of it's "black" features.  The funny thing is this documentary is research done by a caucasian who wanted the truth to be known.

My DH and I actually showed it at our college ministry one night. Many of the caucasians were surprised. I remember one guy came up to DH and said It never entered his mind that the Egyptians weren't white.

http://www.returntoglory.org/


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Dec 27, 2006)

Very interesting thread.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Dec 27, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> *All those who accept Messiah and His Ways* become Israel, in other words one becomes a part of Israel in Messiah!!
> (There is scripture on this, I will find them.)
> 
> I wanted to present what I previously stated to show that ALL (black, white, asian, etc.) are accepted by those who want to live. *Messiah is equal opportunity.*
> ...


 
interesting, indeed!


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 27, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> Strangled means that the animal was literally strangled and not killed properly. The animal must be killed in a way that the blood is drained out as much as possible. When an animal is strangled certain hormones are unleashed in the body that aren't good and in turn you eat it.
> 
> Our Creator when He created the Instructions for eating is wise. There are bio-chemical reasons as well as spiritual for eating certain foods and killing them a certain way. It is not because He simply said so and was being a harsh diety. There are scientific reasons that many are unaware of.


tsiporah, please keep this coming.  I'm so humbled by this information being posted.  These pictures are breath taking and no one can dispute the truth of what you are sharing.   

Maybe this thread can become a 'sticky'.  

I thank God for you.


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Dec 27, 2006)

So...it seems like more is being said than just religion.

I know there are certain people of African that are descendants of one or more of the 12 tribes, is that what you're saying you are?

And does this have an effect on you being a Messanic Jew?  Do you know what I mean?  I don't think I'm being clear.    Sorry.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 27, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I was thinking the same thing... like a New Year's resolution.... but how to begin to do this? How to ask for this in a restaurant?


 
You can begin by reading Lev. 11 and checking to see what is clean and unclean. There are some online lists on some Messianic site that give information.  You can continue to eat meats like chicken, fish with scales, beef.  But with the read meats and chicken make sure you soak it in Kosher salt to get rid of the blood. It doesn't take much. When shopping look for the Kosher symbols. Some have a U or K or some version of it or Parve. (These foods do not contain unclean animals.)

_Take note that unclean animals clean the earth!!  Yahuah (The Father) never intended for His children to eat things that clean the earth._

Did you know that Pork is a meat that spoils from inside out??


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

RelaxerRehab,

I used to be a Methodist then Non-Denominational. Born Israelite. I had been studying Hebraism for years though, until I got the nerve to leave church and begin observing the things we were commanded to do.  I was a member of a synagogue for a while but it is so far then the gas situation occurred so I just got up with me and my boys and study on early Sat mornings and we do Scripture study.  We also do all of the Feasts.  People have no idea that this Way of life that Yah gave to us is sooooo much easier and great blessings do come to you!!!

I don't mind the questions at all....keep them coming you guys!!  I love to teach.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

alexstin said:
			
		

> I've heard of the Lemba people. Anyone ever see "Return to Glory"? It's talks about the same kind of stuff...Egyptians, The lemba people and so on. It talks about how Napoleon shot the nose off the Great Sphinx because of it's "black" features. The funny thing is this documentary is research done by a caucasian who wanted the truth to be known.
> 
> My DH and I actually showed it at our college ministry one night. Many of the caucasians were surprised. I remember one guy came up to DH and said It never entered his mind that the Egyptians weren't white.
> 
> http://www.returntoglory.org/


 
Yes girl!  I have seen the site before.  I am VERY familiar with it.  Yes, this not only prooves Egypt was "Negroid" but so was Israel since they were neighbors.  The reason why media wants Egypt white is because it then paints the other peoples around them white.  But if portrayed black (which is true) then it portrays it close neighbors the same.


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Dec 28, 2006)

Here's my question: do white jews/israelis deny that black jews exist?  What is the relationship like *between *them?


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 28, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> Yes girl! I have seen the site before. I am VERY familiar with it. Yes, this not only prooves Egypt was "Negroid" but so was Israel since they were neighbors. The reason why media wants Egypt white is because it then paints the other peoples around them white. But if portrayed black (which is true) then it portrays it close neighbors the same.


 
You are such a blessing...I'm actually speechless with all of this informaton and yet almost ashamed for not knowing.  

All I can do is thank God for you.    Please keep sharing.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> So...it seems like more is being said than just religion.
> 
> I know there are certain people of African that are descendants of one or more of the 12 tribes, is that what you're saying you are?
> 
> And does this have an effect on you being a Messanic Jew? Do you know what I mean? I don't think I'm being clear.  Sorry.


 
I understand your question 

Yes I am an physical Israelite and according to many people I have spoken with including some knwoledgable Igbos, you are too! They are _quite _aware of our position as Hebrews.  My great-great-grandfather had passed down that my family is from the twelve tribes as he put it.  My family is not the only one.

I am Messianic because that is the Original Faith of the Apostles.  It is the faith of Paul, Peter, Mary, John, James, Timothy, and so on.  The Gentiles when coming into the faith observed this too.

So there is both physical and spiritual significance, not just for me but you too!

There is a scripture that says All Matters Will Be Restored.  It is in Acts I believe.  I have so many Scripts to post but I will take my time so I have it right.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

Shimmie Todah (thanks)!

Yes,this has been hidden from all of us.  Often with an agenda.  But it was prophesied to occur.  The one that got me some years ago was the Roman picture of the Israelite.  We often see movies depicting them another way, including the movie "Prince of Egypt".

We often here of African tribes being Israelite but for whatever reason we don't connect them to us.  Funny thing is, most of the world including Arabs KNOW who you are, they are the ones who told the Portuguese about the _People of the Book_ in West Africa.

Ancient historians have ALWAYS thought that Hebrews were of the African "race" so to speak.  There are comments I will post. Give me time.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> Here's my question: do white jews/israelis deny that black jews exist? What is the relationship like *between *them?


 
That is a dangerous question  and the answer will vary.

I will say this ( and you are thinking ):

There is a reason for the State of Israel's conversion factor and Mother being Jewish factor.  It is a *modern invention* to limit who comes in.

These factors are NOT Scripture.  But it is the Father who decides what is what, not a society that is 70-75% secular!!!

There are *some* who do acknowledge black jews--albeit certain groups. There is an author who admits the Black Americans are Israel.  Unfortunately I do not have the book.

They may embrace the Ethiopian jews as Israel's 'black darlings' but when an American black comes to visit or return home----big problem.

There are some messianic black people who are Israelite aware who have relayed their experiences. I have heard them speak personally.  They say that they STARE you down and when they know you are from the US and they know that you KNOW who you are and you say that you are returning home, they drop their gaze and begin moving out of your way.  Sometimes they get an angry disgusted look as if his time were up. This guy said they expect you to move out of their way but when they realize that you know about yourself it is like parting the Red Sea in the crowd!  The children stare even the Ethiopian Jews stare. According to him, as well as others, Ethiopian jews are a "yes-man" people to the Israelis.

But there is much more to learn as many who call themselves 'jews' are  not. Yet these are the same ones who want to define others and say who can come and who can't.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 28, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> Shimmie Todah (thanks)!
> 
> Yes,this has been hidden from all of us. Often with an agenda. But it was prophesied to occur. The one that got me some years ago was the Roman picture of the Israelite. We often see movies depicting them another way, including the movie "Prince of Egypt".
> 
> ...


 
Take all the time you need.  Just don't leave us.  This is a 'grounding' experience.  In other words, we as Blacks didn't borrow Jesus.  Hope that makes sense.  

*Question:*  In church we've been taught that Adam and Eve were Black.  I believe it from the standpoint of their origin geographically.  

Some believe it because it validates having something over the white race.  Whatever you can share will be most appreciated.  

How do I say, you are a blessing?    "Todah"... I like the sound of that.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> You are such a blessing...I'm actually speechless with all of this informaton and yet almost ashamed for not knowing.
> 
> All I can do is thank God for you.  Please keep sharing.


 
Aaaww! Don't be ashamed.  All of this was prophesied to happened to our people because of our disobedience in ancient times to our Father in heaven. Soooo AD 70 happened when General Titus destroyed Jerusalem.

*Everyone MUST Read Deut. 28*  Read it all through and start paying attention when it goes into the curses--they will sound familiar. Read it through, something should ring a bell about a certain historical event in history that occurred with NO OTHER people.  This is your identifying mark of who you are.  Yah is awesome and He left it there so that we may ID ourselves when it comes time for us to wake up.  If there are questions about that particular scripture, please ask!!!  I will certainly explain.

See the shofar in my avatar?  That is something I blow--literally.

A shofar is being blown to wake up.

You are Daughters of Zion!!

We have been missing so much as a people, I  am willing wage that many of us knew there was a hole and knew that something was off key with our people but didn't know what it was. Why we were always at the bottom and other matters.  This is your answer!


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Take all the time you need. Just don't leave us. This is a 'grounding' experience. In other words, we as Blacks didn't borrow Jesus. Hope that makes sense.
> 
> *Question:* In church we've been taught that Adam and Eve were Black. I believe it from the standpoint of their origin geographically.
> 
> ...


 
Shimmie, *Todah* means *Thanks* in hebrew. *Todah Rabah* is *Thank you very much.*

About the Adam and Eve, yes they were black by geography.  I don't express them being black because it is simply something other than white.
Scientist will even say they were 'African'.

Let me add,

In *Gen. 10* you have the table of nations.

It lists the descendents of all three sons of Noah-- Ham, Shem, Japhet.

Now this is how we must think critically and carefully.

1. If Adam were black
then Eve was black because a rib was taken (DNA material) and used to form wo-man. First evidence of Genetic work being done outside of Adam.

2.Since both were black then the people in Pre-Flood times were black.
This included Noah.

3. _Now get this_: If Noah and his wife were black, then Ham is not the only black child!! Ham has two full-blooded brothers. Shem and Japhet. They were black.

Things did not change until AFTER the tower of Babel, Gen. tells you where they went. Japhet went north and became more separated from his brethren.  Japhet remained black for a while until some later period.  Meanwhile the Hamites and Shemites continued to mingle-mangle and for the most part through out history remain the same.  This is evident with the Roman pic of an Israelite(the black and white one) and that same pic could also be representative of Yahusha's(Jesus) looks.  They wore afros at that time and no kippas (the Yarmulke ).


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 28, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> Shimmie, *Todah* means *Thanks* in hebrew. *Todah Rabah* is *Thank you very much.*
> 
> About the Adam and Eve, yes they were black by geography. I don't express them being black because it is simply something other than white.
> Scientist will even say they were 'African'.
> ...


 
Oh My!  Do you know that I had questions regarding Ham?  We've all read the event when Ham 'discovered' his father Noah 'drunk and naked' and Noah in a 'drunken state' yelled out 'Cursed be Caanan'... (Genesis 9)



> 20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
> 21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
> 22 And *Ham*, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
> 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
> ...


For years, this scripture was used by racist to justify that Blacks were the lessor and the servants to all.  They expanded the 'lie' by saying Ham became Black when Noah cursed him.

tisporah, we need to have a 'tele-conference.'  This information you are sharing is too rich to be ignored.  You have scriptural history to back this up.  This statement of yours blows me away...



> This is evident with the Roman pic of an Israelite(the black and white one) and that same pic could also be representative of Yahusha's(Jesus) looks. They wore afros at that time and no kippas (the Yarmulke )


The thing is, I've had some of this taught to me when I was in college but it didn't 'stick' with me.  I was too White oriented.  

I'm being real.  I've lived in the 'White World' for a very long time; even to the point of _*considering*_ *marriage.*  But, I always felt giving a gift of myself to someone who has no right to it...my heritage.

Keep the lessons coming...I still have so many questions. 

We have a brother here who is also on point and extremely grounded in 'our' Black Heritage.  

I'm so glad you are here to 'teach' us.


----------



## alexstin (Dec 28, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> You can begin by reading Lev. 11 and checking to see what is clean and unclean. There are some online lists on some Messianic site that give information.  You can continue to eat meats like chicken, fish with scales, beef.  But with the read meats and chicken make sure you soak it in Kosher salt to get rid of the blood. It doesn't take much. When shopping look for the Kosher symbols. Some have a U or K or some version of it or Parve. (These foods do not contain unclean animals.)
> 
> _*Take note that unclean animals clean the earth!!  Yahuah (The Father) never intended for His children to eat things that clean the earth*._
> 
> Did you know that Pork is a meat that spoils from inside out??




Okay you got me with that part. I always wondered why some meats were considered unclean. That makes sense. Now I feel sick.erplexed


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 28, 2006)

alexstin said:
			
		

> Okay you got me with that part. I always wondered why some meats were considered unclean. That makes sense. Now I feel sick.erplexed


 
I know.  We're so used to 'quisine' (sp?)  

But here's something else that went through one ear and out the other with me..."Scavengers of the Earth."  I've heard this 'preached' for years.  I *don't* eat pork, but I sure will down a crab cake and I have some wonderful recipes for crab meat.  Oh well, I've learning quite a lot here...


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

Shimmie,

I will post something on the Canaan's Curse later.  It was Canaan that was curse and NOT Ham.  (OOOOPpppsss!!)

We have been taught Ham was cursed.


----------



## alexstin (Dec 28, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> I know.  We're so used to 'quisine' (sp?)
> 
> But here's something else that went through one ear and out the other with me..."Scavengers of the Earth."  I've heard this 'preached' for years.  I *don't* eat pork, but I sure will down a crab cake and I have some wonderful recipes for crab meat.  Oh well, I've learning quite a lot here...



Well, I've always known that shrimp are sea "roaches" but I have them a few times a month. DH and I can get down with Alaskan crab legs too! Don't even get me started on crab cakes. That's my staple dish at Cheesecake factory.


So I read DH the part about unclean animals cleaning the earth. He said, "Well I can do without lobster and shrimp."   He's cracking me up!!


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

Canaan's Curse

I have met the guy, in person, who wrote this booklet years ago.

http://www.clubcanaan.com/studies/Canaan.html

What Canaan forfeited was the land.

Read through, I think it is too long to post but atleast you have a link.

The main home page is: *CLUBCANAAN*


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

This is a repost of an article originally posted at Afrikan Frontline Network. Â© Frontline News Service. All Rights Reserved. 

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]*THE CURSE OF HAM*[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Fact or Fiction?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Genesis 9:20-27, popularly known as the Curse of Ham, in conjunction with the scriptures immediately following (Gen. 10 in its entirety), known as the Table of Genealogies, is most used to explain and even justify the plight of the black peoples of the world throughout history. This most decisive derogatory racial tradition stems from a collection of Jewish oral traditions in the Babylonian Talmud dating from the second to sixth century A.D. that holds that the descendants of Ham were cursed by being black.[/FONT] 

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]It is the intent of this author to discredit this ludicrous myth totally and reveal the scriptural truth behind the curse of Noah. Genesis 9:20-27 reads as follows:[/FONT] 

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]And Noah began to be a husbandman, and he planted a vineyard and he drank of the wine, and was drunken and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, cursed be Canaan. A servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, blessed be the Lord God of Shem, and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem, and Canaan shall be his servant.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]As stated above, this scripture popularly known as the curse of Ham, is used to explain the plight of the black race. However, in order to understand the truth, this scripture must be correctly interpreted by asking the three following questions.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]1. Who is actually committing this sin?[/FONT] 

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]2. What is the sin being committed?[/FONT] 

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]3. What is the punishment (or curse) for this sin?[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]In the Bible, it is customary to document genealogies from eldest to youngest and in most instances this is the case (the exception being from youngest to eldest). Therefore, Ham is the second son of Noah (Gen. 9:18), not his youngest. Ham is noted as being the father of Canaan. Canaan was the youngest son of Ham (Gen. 10:6). The lack of a word for grandson and nephew in the Hebrew dialect used in the Old Testament of the Bible adds further confusion to the interpretation of this curse. All male descendants were referred to as son whether grandson or nephew. Also, Deuteronomy 24:16 reads:[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall the children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Considering, these substantiating scriptures, it was Canaan, not Ham, who had committed the sin thus the prophetic curse of Noah, was on Canaan, and it did not apply to Ham or any of his other descendants.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]There have been many different interpretations of the sin committed. Some say Canaan looked upon Noah's naked body, or that he committed a homosexual act while Noah slept. The confusion over this sin is what keeps many from understanding the nature of the curse that followed. In order to determine what the sin was, you must understand the scriptural definition of "thy father's nakedness". Leviticus 20:11 reads:[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt not thou uncover. It is thy father's nakedness. And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]With "thy father's nakedness" so defined, the indication is that Noah and his wife, both, were asleep in the tent, thus the need for both Shem and Japheth to lay a garment over their shoulders to cover the occupants of the tent, and enter backwards so as not to see "their father's nakedness". Canaan apparently had sex with Noah's wife while they slept. The nature of the sin is further indicated by the punishment or curse for the sin.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]In reading of another person who committed this exact sin, Genesis 35:22 reads:[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]While Israel was living in that region, Ruben went in and slept with his father's concubine Bilhah, and Isreal heard of it.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The punishment or curse that Ruben (Israel's firstborn son) received for sleeping with his father's wife (concubine), was the loss of the choice land that went to the first born and therefore his descendants did not excel (Gen. 49:3-4, I Chron. 5:1-2). Thus, the penalty for this sin is the loss of your birthright, which is land. This is the exact punishment Canaan received. He lost his inheritance to his land. Thus Genesis 9:20-27 properly interpreted reads:[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]And Noah awoke from his wine, and he knew what his grandson had done unto his wife. And he said, cursed be Canaan. He will be conquered by his brethren (decsendants of Shem), who themselves will be conquered (by decsendants of Japheth). And he said, blessed be the Lord God of Shem, and Canaan's land will be conquered and possessed by Shem. God shall enlarge Japheth's territory, and he will live in the homes Shem built in the land of Canaan.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]This curse dealt exclusively with land ownership and in fact, is what later became the blessing of Abraham. The land of Canaan is the land God promised to give to the descendants of Abraham, who himself was a descendant of Shem. All of the great conquering powers that swept through the land of Canaan (once the descendants of Shem had established themselves there) were in fact descendants of Japheth and did indeed cause a dispersion of the descendants of Shem and occupied the cities they built.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Those who translated and thereby interpreted the Bible were not the ones who wrote it. They defined blacks based on misinterpretations of their translations. It is interesting to note that the people who have the worst (though not only), history of enslaving people, would interpret these verses for their own gain - that of keeping their slaves enslaved. For example, the belief that blacks are cursed originating from the *Babylonian Talmud* received even greater elaboration during the Middle Ages when Noah's curse was further explained:[/FONT] 

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]"It must be Canaan, your firstborn, whom they enslave... Canaan's children shall be born ugly and black!... Your grandchildren's hair shall be twisted into kinks... [their lips] shall swell." Men of this race are called Negroes; their forefather Canaan commanded them to love theft and fornication, to be banded together in hatred of their masters, and never to tell the truth."[/FONT] 


_(Tsiporah's comment: Now you know those who wrote the Babylonian Talmud were liars period. That is why I do not read it.)_


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]That passage includes not only a clear description of the color and physical type of the "cursed" people, it also presents the principal stereotype associated with blacks - thieves, fornicators, and liars. In actuality, blacks are enslaved if they accept any part of this misinterpretation.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The translation of a manuscript of Benjamin ben Jonah, a twelfth-century merchant and traveler from Spanish Navarre, not only supports the same theme but suggests that it was fairly widespread:[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]"There is a people who like animals, eat of the herbs that grow on the banks of the Nile, and in the fields. They go about naked and have not the intelligence of ordinary men. They cohabit with their sisters and anyone they find. These sons of Ham are black slaves."[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]To the extent that this myth was generally accepted by Europeans, to that same extent could the inferior position of blacks be explained by Noah's curse and thus rationalized biblically.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The black peoples of the world must take caution in their understanding of biblical scripture and be more responsible in their acceptance of interpretations thereof. Consideration must also be given to historical and scientific fact.[/FONT] 


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Scientists, using genetic technology to examine the races have determined that the first man and woman were black, the oldest race on Earth is African, and that the origin of every other race is of this race. Paintings on the walls of tombs in Egypt clearly show that there were at one time two distinct and seperate groups of black peoples living in Africa. One very dark race and another that was brown. The dark race in most cases was depicted as the rulers, kings, pharaohs, and priests. Further, many of the kingdoms, rivers, and land masses described in the Bible are found in Africa, which included parts of what is today called the middle east.[/FONT] 

The rest of it is here.....

http://www.clubcanaan.com/studies/Canaan2.html


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

For those interested in the Dietary Instructions check here.

There is an extensive list on what is clean and unclean.

Think of it like this, let's say Yah the Father gave us a mechanical toy to play with  a robot or something and then He said do not play with the buzz saw!  There is a reason why a Father told His child not to play with the buzz saw.

The unclean animals are earth cleaners, filters, and garbage disposals of His planet.  Live bio-mechanical machines to clean up.

Pigs clean the ground and eat dead animals- including dead humans (corn fed pig doesn't count because their systems are toxic still. It is something about how they process and excrete their waste.)

Shell fish and shrimp filter out the waters of natural as well as artificial pollutants.

Certain birds clean up (you see them in the street when driving by.) the road kill and dead animals.

Cat fish also filter out and clean.

These animals are unclean because they clean up the dirty and dead stuff.

Yahuah is wise in how to care for this earth.  These animals are good in the sense, that they function in what they are to do- and not to eat as we have been taught.  Check out some of the diseases that pop up in Asia where they eat almost anything.

Yah wants to preserve those who are His and therefore live longer to present the Truth to the world.  _In essence an expression of His love._

Keeping the Laws of Lev. 11 is *not* a salvational issue, *but* an issue of obedience to the father.

Before our ancestors were brought to this country we ate clean foods-ONLY!! Why do you think Massa threw us that pork in slave times?!?! 

http://www.clubcanaan.com/studies/bgck04.html


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 28, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> Shimmie,
> 
> I will post something on the Canaan's Curse later. It was Canaan that was curse and NOT Ham. (OOOOPpppsss!!)
> 
> We have been taught Ham was cursed.


 
Take your time.  I'm on the edge of my seat.  I even stopped shopping online at Bath and Body Works for this thread.    And I'm not making light of this by saying so.  

May I tell you what has literally *griped my heart*?   You made this statement and it will not let me go...it's Key and Revelation...



			
				tsiporah said:
			
		

> There is a scripture that says All Matters Will Be Restored.


My Lord!   "All Matters Will Be Restored".    This is profound all in itsself.  I can take this and run with it.  It applies to every area of our lives.  Can you even see what the Lord is doing here?  I know you can.  

*"All Matters Will Be Restored."  *

tsiporah, nothing can hinder *Truth.*  The truth being Jesus...our Messiah.

You said something else.  I made a statement...



			
				Shimmie said:
			
		

> This is a 'grounding' experience.  In other words, we as Blacks didn't borrow Jesus.


 
In your replies you mentioned this...



			
				tsiporah said:
			
		

> We have been missing so much as a people, I am willing wage that many of us knew there was a hole and knew that something was off key with our people but didn't know what it was. Why we were always at the bottom and other matters. This is your answer!


I can't get past this...  _"There was a 'hole' and knew that something was off key... and didn't know what it was."_    tsiporah, this is true...so very true with me personally.  I've known for a long, long time, that something about 'me' (regarding my heritage) was missing.  

As Blacks here in the US we have not been 'grounded' which is why I believe we have still not progressed as far as God intended us to.   

You have a 'captive' audience in me.  That's for sure.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 28, 2006)

alexstin said:
			
		

> Well, I've always known that shrimp are sea "roaches" but I have them a few times a month. DH and I can get down with Alaskan crab legs too! Don't even get me started on crab cakes. That's my staple dish at Cheesecake factory.
> 
> So I read DH the part about unclean animals cleaning the earth. He said, "Well I can do without lobster and shrimp." He's cracking me up!!


Girl please... "Crab Cakes" are in my _"Get a Husband'_ manual.   
You know I have a "Romance Series" for Wives and Wives to be. 
Oh well.... Menu change coming up.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 28, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> This is a repost of an article originally posted at Afrikan Frontline Network. Â© Frontline News Service. All Rights Reserved.
> 
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]*THE CURSE OF HAM*[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Fact or Fiction?[/FONT]
> ...


tsiporah, thank so much. This is really humbling me. I've had these teachings presented to me and I just did not allow them to flourish my knowledge. 

God bless you for 'bringing me back... to *Truth."*


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

Here is a forum done by a sista'.

Here she presents some of the same information I do.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=yshuaandmoshe&nav=start&prettyurl=%2Fyshuaandmoshe%2Fstart

One would have to sign into delphi forums to join it (free).  

The name is Authentic Jews, Yehudah & Binyamin.  It is a very beautiful site.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

Here is a picture of Assyrians





Look at the negro features and hair type!!


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

Israelite captives taken by Assyrians..notice the 'rolly-bally' hair and large eyes and thick features of these ancient brothers of Judah. 




*Imagine:* David, Joshua, Moses, Joseph (both of them), Paul, Yahusha( Jesus), Mariam, Mary, Ruth (Moabitess), Deborah etc. etc...


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

*Men of Lachish being skinned alive...notice the afro hair again.*​


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Dec 28, 2006)

Not sure why this thread is being rated poorly.  It is simply giving us information and not argumentative.  SMH


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> Not sure why this thread is being rated poorly. It is simply giving us information and not argumentative. SMH


 
Put it this way to you,  some people are not ready to hear the information and will therefore react in such a way, especially if it goes against principles and ways of thinking that are contrary to theirs.

But for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear- this is for them.

I am not so worried about how it is rated, only that the sheep who need Truth receive Truth.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 28, 2006)

I think what I may do is start a forum for those who are curious and want to know more.  I have just recently thought about this.  For those who are interested, let me know.  You can PM me if you'd like.


----------



## Bublnbrnsuga (Dec 28, 2006)

I just PM'ed you!! This is so good!


----------



## Lotus (Dec 28, 2006)

I PM'd you as well.  It is exciting and refreshing to read your posts.  Thank you for taking the time for sharing the truth and backing it up with the Word.


----------



## czyfaith77 (Dec 28, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> Shimmie, *Todah* means *Thanks* in hebrew. *Todah Rabah* is *Thank you very much.*
> 
> About the Adam and Eve, yes they were black by geography. I don't express them being black because it is simply something other than white.
> Scientist will even say they were 'African'.
> ...


 
My question is this though and I am just asking this because I have been thinking this for years.  If everyone is black from Adam and Eve on up, then who was there to "mix and mingle with"? God knows I have been trying to figure this thing out.  I did an experiement with the colors one day and as we know we have primary and secondary colors.  And when you mix all the colors together it is all black but what gets black to white?  (I am not asking you per se but it is just a question I have had for years at the back of my mind). I know I have some complex questions (I've been like that for years as well  .

BTW,  I wear a Messianic Jew emblem on my necklace.  I identify myself as a Christian.  But I feel as a Christian and a reader and believer of the Bible I can't deny either testaments over the other.  Believe me as an African American woman, I get alot stares on this.  Some question and some stare.  At first I thought people were staring at my chest but it turned out to be the emblem. And they just stare like they don't get it. The emblem on my necklace is a star of David (six point star and the cross). On some you will see the star and a fish.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 28, 2006)

*tsiporah*, I'm PM'ing you PUBLICLY!    I couldn't log back into the forum fast enough.  

As for the 'one-star'... you've already reached far beyond the stars, the sun and the moon with this education.   Double - Two Thumbs Up!  

While I cannot speak for all, I can say that this information is 'grounding' for many of us.  I know that it surely is for me.  I know I've shared this before, but all my life has been White oriented.  I'm okay with that for I am loved in the White world.  

But what you are sharing, the White world cannot give me.  It's not theirs to give.  It's truly a gift from God our Father.  One that I do not mind sharing with others who are 'open' to know...undisputed "Truth."  

Of course I have MORE questions....

Ismael... do we have a lineage with him?  I'm sure of Issac via Abraham, but I've often wondered about Ismael?    

*The Middle East wars: * Are they "The decendents of Jacob and Esau" fighting?  Or, the decendents of Issac and Ismael?  

I can see 2007 as the year of our Jewish awakening.  And I say this most respectfully.  I'm not here to offend anyone, with all of my heart, I mean this.  I just have a 'hunger' for knowledge.  

BTW:  My great-grandfather (maternal) was/is Jewish.  He was of the fairer skin.  I don't know much more about him.

Another reason why your information is so vital to me.

My family always leaned upon the Native American bloodline of our family on both my parents sides.  They spoke more of the Indian blood in us than they did of the African blood.   

But I see this in 'our' race quite a bit.  Many African Americans will ask are you 'Indian', or Hispanic or mixed?  Actually, the question I grew up around was "What are you 'mixed' with?   

This is my perpective: "Being Black" has too long, been something to be ashamed of.  Hey, it comes out in too many ways.  Our hair desires; our dress; where we patron; whom we support; even where we live... (I say 'we' very loosely).  However, the self-image of our race seems to be getting lower as opposed to higher as it should be.   

*Note:*  I say this from life's observation.  There is still too much low self-image within our race.  Hence the need for what you are sharing with us.  

So please if you will, accept this as my PM sent to you as high priority.


----------



## czyfaith77 (Dec 28, 2006)

Are there any other books or sites to reference.  I would like to continue to read. While some of this is not new to me much of it it is and I would like to know more.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 29, 2006)

czyfaith77 said:
			
		

> My question is this though and I am just asking this because I have been thinking this for years. If everyone is black from Adam and Eve on up, then who was there to "mix and mingle with"? *(Themselves!! LOL...they were one people the Scritpure says, It is as if for example you have the Brown family clan that grew, then grew to become populous, they mingles with each other. When nations form in remote times, it is like if Jamaican married a Ghanian or if and Ethiopian married and American Black.  Sometimes we think it too incredible to see the earth filled with---earthy looking people.)*God knows I have been trying to figure this thing out. I did an experiement with the colors one day and as we know we have primary and secondary colors. And when you mix all the colors together it is all black but what gets black to white? *(White is recessive and the geneticists will state that some..including so-called black people.. may be angry for that Truth but it is Truth.)(*I am not asking you per se but it is just a question I have had for years at the back of my mind). I know I have some complex questions (I've been like that for years as well  .
> 
> BTW, I wear a Messianic Jew emblem on my necklace. I identify myself as a Christian. But I feel as a Christian and a reader and believer of the Bible I can't deny either testaments over the other. *(That is good, neither do I  All Scripture is Profitable II Tim. 3:16)*Believe me as an African American woman, I get alot stares on this. Some question and some stare. At first I thought people were staring at my chest but it turned out to be the emblem. And they just stare like they don't get it. The emblem on my necklace is a star of David (six point star and the cross). On some you will see the star and a fish.[/quote*](Yes I have seen it.)*


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 29, 2006)

For those who are interested in continuing this discussion else where, here is the listing of the web address. 

*[email protected]*

*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RegatheringSheep/*

It is for those who are trully thirsty for knowledge and have a hunger for Truth.

It is not intended for those to come in with strife!!

This is for sheep who are seeking.

*******They MUST be a believer in the one Messiah that came 2000 years ago out of Miryam (Mary).  I call Him by His Hebrew name Yahusha and others know Him by the name of Jesus.*******

I will be continuing the dialogue there...

shalom and see you on the other side.


Tsiporah Ona Neshera Teru'ah


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 29, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> *tsiporah*, I'm PM'ing you PUBLICLY!  I couldn't log back into the forum fast enough.
> 
> As for the 'one-star'... you've already reached far beyond the stars, the sun and the moon with this education. Double - Two Thumbs Up!
> 
> ...


 
Hey sis, I will answer your questions on the forum.....Please remind me when you get there!! I will gladly anwer them.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 29, 2006)

czyfaith77 said:
			
		

> Are there any other books or sites to reference. I would like to continue to read. While some of this is not new to me much of it it is and I would like to know more.


 
This web site takes you directly to the media page where books and DVD's are sold.  *Israelite Heritage*  Happy hunting!!


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 29, 2006)

This is on the same media page:

*DOCUMENTARY ISRAELITE VIDEO


*
*HEBREWS OR THE SO CALLED NEGRO
 A DOCUMENTARY BY YAHYA BANDELE*




*The purpose of this DVD is to educate, alert, and motivate the children of Yah to see and perceive, to hear and understand, and understand and then apply His most powerful and redeeming word. * 

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"><B>I have put together a tremendous amount of information that will challenge and hopefully motivate you to seek the Almighty Yah so that He can transform you into whom you really are in Him.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 29, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> Hey sis, I will answer your questions on the forum.....Please remind me when you get there!! I will gladly anwer them.


 
Thank you.  You are a very smart woman.  Preparation and foresight.  Your website is another answer to prayer.  I didn't want this thread to become blocked or cause offense to anyone.  I am surely the ring leader with questions.   See you on the forum... 

God bless you....


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 29, 2006)

Web sites that express our culture/lifestyle:

Clubcanaan

MalakiYah.org

Authentic Jews  (and we are.)

Israelite Heritage

The Raw Gospel Uncut!

Web sites that explain lifestyle, more on Messianic Hebraism:

Yahshua's People

EliYah's Page

YahuYahweh

Restoration (I know this couple here...he is actually a brotha .)


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 29, 2006)

A list of Books

You will have to google these out.

This is my last post to this thread...to 'eat' some more, join the forum. Regathering Sheep (for the seriously hungry sheep only!!! and for those who hold the Testimony of Messiah!!)

Shalom and shalom!!

[SIZE=+3]Reading List [/SIZE]


*"Then he said unto me, son of man, these are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, our bones are dried, and our hope is lost; we are cut off from our parts. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus says the Lord GOD; Behold; O my people, I will open your graves, and
cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel." (Ezekiel 37:11-12)*

[FONT=HELVETICA, ARIAL, MS SANS SERIF, SANS SERIF]The Original African Heritage Study Bible - by James C. Winston Publishing Company
Hebrewisms of West Africa - by Joseph J. Williams
Black Athena - by Martin Bernal
The African Origins of Modern Judaism - Jose V. Malcioln
Civilizations of the Near East vol. 1& 4 - by Jack M. Sasson
The Palestine Plot - by B. Jensen
The Thirteenth Tribe - by Arthur Koestler*** (Tsipy's comment: an Important read)
From Babylon to Timbuktu - by Rudolph R. Windsor
Valley of the Dry Bones - by Rudolph R. Windsor
The History of Edom the Imposter Jew - by Nabi Moshe Y. Lewis 
A light to the Nations - by Norman K. Gottwald
The Hebrew Bible (a socio-literary introduction) - by Norman K. Gottwald
The Hebrew Heritage of Black Africa - by Steven Jacobs
The Deceiving of the Black Race - by Moses Farrar
The Truth about Black Biblic Hebrew-Israelite - by Ella J. Hughley
God, The Black Man and Truth - by Ben Ammi Ben-Israel
*Israelites and Jews, The Significant Difference - by Cohen Michael Ben-Levi (Tsipy's comment: Excellent!!!!)
*African Presence in Early Asia - by Runoko Rashidi/Ivan Van Sertima
The Passover Plot - by Hugh J. Schonfield
The Classic Slave Narratives - by Henry Louis Gates Jr. (read the narrative of the life of Olaudah Equiano)
Discovering Eve, Anicent Israelite Women in Context - Carol Meyers
The Mythmaker - by Hyam Maccoby
Wars of the Jews - by Rosenthal & Mozeson
Canaan's Curse - by Wesley B. Webster
Biblical Israelites, Black or White? - by Wesley B. Webster
100 Amazing Facts on the African Presence in the Bible - by Winston-Derek Publishers, Inc.
[/FONT]


----------



## pebbles (Dec 29, 2006)

Excellent information! I joined the group.


----------



## Cichelle (Dec 29, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> That is a dangerous question  and the answer will vary.
> 
> I will say this ( and you are thinking ):
> 
> There is a reason for the State of Israel's conversion factor and Mother being Jewish factor.  It is a *modern invention* to limit who comes in.



This is false. Please don't speak of what you don't know. What determines who is and is not a Jew is not a "modern invention". 



> These factors are NOT Scripture.  But it is the Father who decides what is what, not a society that is 70-75% secular!!!



Lineage is decided by the father. That is to say, your line of ancestors. But a person born to a Gentile mother is not Jewish unless they have a halachic conversion. Do you know the reasons for this? Yes, the reasons are directly related to "scripture". And it isn't a modern invention to control the immigrant population in the State of Israel. 



> There are *some* who do acknowledge black jews--albeit certain groups. There is an author who admits the Black Americans are Israel.  Unfortunately I do not have the book.



The color of the skin is not a part of determining who is and is not Jewish. You are not Jewish, but that is not determined by your race.



> They may embrace the Ethiopian jews as Israel's 'black darlings' but when an American black comes to visit or return home----big problem.



Who is "they" exactly? Please define. Also please define what "black darlings" are.

Americans white, black or purple cannot just go into other countries and say "hey I'm returning home". There are laws in every country regarding immigration. American blacks can visit Israel with as little or as much problem as anyone else. So what are you talking about?




> There are some messianic black people who are Israelite aware who have relayed their experiences. I have heard them speak personally.  They say that they STARE you down and when they know you are from the US and they know that you KNOW who you are and you say that you are returning home, they drop their gaze and begin moving out of your way.



How would they know these things about these "messianic black people"? Were they standing on the street corner claiming to be "returning home" or claiming that they are the real Israelis? Yes, that would explain the stares, as in general, people stare at people ranting on the street.

If they weren't making such declarations, how would the Israelis know anything about them...or care? 



> Sometimes they get an angry disgusted look as if his time were up.



What does this mean "as if his time were up". Again, was this guy shouting out on the street that he is a true Israeli and the Israelis or not? Was he trying to proselytize? What was he saying? Once we know that, it might explain the alleged angry disgusted looks he got.



> This guy said they expect you to move out of their way...



Why? Was he blocking the sidewalk or street and they told him to move? If not, how does he know what "they" expected? 



> ...but when they realize that you know about yourself it is like parting the Red Sea in the crowd!  The children stare even the Ethiopian Jews stare. According to him, as well as others, Ethiopian jews are a "yes-man" people to the Israelis.



A crowd parting like the Red Sea, figuratively or literally, for a messianic American walking down the street or ranting on the street corner is a highly unlikely scenario. (Btw, are you fluent in modern and biblical Hebrew? Are the messianic people who allegedly had these experiences in Israel fluent in the language?) The staring very well had something to do with the behavior of the individual relating this story to you. 

If you go to Israel and try to proselytize, then yes you could very well have a big problem, both legal and social. If you go to Israel and stand on the street claiming it is your home then you shouldn't be surprised when people look at you like you have a few screws lose. Try it in other countries as well. See if they stare.



> But there is much more to learn as many who call themselves 'jews' are  not. Yet these are the same ones who want to define others and say who can come and who can't.



This is anti-semetic and racist.


----------



## pebbles (Dec 29, 2006)

I think tsiporah said she wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore, so you may want to ask her your questions directly through pm.


----------



## tsiporah (Dec 29, 2006)

Cichelle said:
			
		

> This is false. Please don't speak of what you don't know. What determines who is and is not a Jew is not a "modern invention".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Says who?  Read the info again and this time without the arrongant worldly Presuppositions.  Please use *scripture *to justify your points and not what so-called Khazar Jews (Japhetic and non Israelite, aka,fake Jews---they know this themselves read The Thirteenth Tribe By ASHKENAZI JEW Author Koestler who says that 85-90% of Jews today are NOT Israelites and have no Israelite blood.) people decide.

I did this for *US*! Truth reigns.  Not to entertain those who side with Talmudism. I originally came on here to search for other Messianics (as Hebrew as one can be!!) But people had questions and I was honest with them.

_I just love the anti-semetic card._ You sound so cliche my dear. I am semetic myself, so I'm self-anti-semetic???  All through scripture one is defined by their father there is no tribe of Deborah or Dinah. i.e. Father Abraham--- and when lineage was listed it was always the father.  When Judah and others married CANAANITE women, they were Judah and other tribes by THEIR FATHER!! Read  scriptures, you see no requirement to list by mother.  Even Joseph whose wife was Egyptian- Jacob accepted them as his descendents and as Israel. Btw, there was no formal conversion ceremony.  

There is more evidence than ever before.

This is truly my last post and I will not be looking at it again.

If you want to debate any issues *please PM me* and I will get my scriptures out and give you more acheological evidence. As well as evidence that Yahusha Messiah already came. (He is the Prphet like unto Moshe.)  I am not trying to disrespect you or come across rude, but you have opened a can of worms dear heart. 


*Do not argue by your emotions.* Use facts and information.  You are angry because this is information that is quite contrary to what you may know. 

The Land of Israel is simply the State!! Most of whom are 70-75% secular.  Yahuah says, the LAND will be inhabated by those who are righteous!! The Messiah is coming back to bring a KINGDOM and *not* a STATE.

ONLY YAH decides who goes and it is those who accept Him!  Not those who just want somewhere to live and pretend to be israelites and continue receiving billions of dollars from over zealous Christians who worship so-called jewish people and televangelists with secrete society plans.


Ahava and Shalom Cichelle!!!! 
(No more posts, PM me, that's it.   Posting on here to me would be a waster of _your_ time.)


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 29, 2006)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Excellent information! I joined the group.


Pebs, I am so excited about this.  God has truly answered prayer.  

My history and 'White' experience is not a big secret here.   This information from tsiporah (who is truly sent to us of God) is so important to me on a personal level that no White person could ever give me.  This is a beautiful gift to have...knowing the Truth about our Heritage...Biblically!  Wooo Hoo!  

The interesting personal applications with me are my great grandfather...Jewish and I've lived most of my Adult life in Jewish communities as well as worked for them.  *It was always 'assumed' that Jews were all 'white.'  I needed this wake-up call...big time.  * 

I'm so glad that I didn't leave the forum when I started to...God kept me here so that I wouldn't miss this and a few other important reasons.  One of the reasons is you...my Darlin'  

I only wish peace for everyone here and the very best that God and life can give them.  I want everyone to be happy and blessed.   

Praise God! From whom ALL Truth and Blessings flow.


----------



## Zeal (Dec 29, 2006)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> I would love to learn more about Messianic Judiasm. I was aware that there were some who believed Christ is the Messiah.


 
There is a Jewish comminity about 15 minutes a way from me.  There  is a Synagogue actoss the street from the health food store. It is called *Beth Yeshua.*  I was invited there in 99 by a Rabbi.  They believe in Jesus.

Here is my story of how I met the Rabbi .  I was in Bible class.  I was saying how much  wanted to meet a Jew for Jesus.  Because it has to be awsome.  The whole history thing, they speak hebrew and they love Jesus.  An older woman (seasoned saint) said to me, well you know what to do ask your Father and she looked up!

So i did.  This was on a Tuesday night.  The following Sunday, i atteneded an annual gospel concert.  There was standing room only.  I had a seat.  I looked up towards the the end of my pew.  Oh my there was a Jewish guy standing there.  After the concert i tlked to him.  i told him my prayer.  he was like, well here I am.  When he told me he was a Rabbi I almost passsed the heck out.  When God answers, he answers.  he invited me the the service.  I have not made it there yet, but I will.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 29, 2006)

Zeal said:
			
		

> There is a Jewish comminity about 15 minutes a way from me. There is a Synagogue actoss the street from the health food store. It is called *Beth Yeshua.* I was invited there in 99 by a Rabbi. They believe in Jesus.
> 
> Here is my story of how I met the Rabbi . I was in Bible class. I was saying how much wanted to meet a Jew for Jesus. Because it has to be awsome. The whole history thing, they speak hebrew and they love Jesus. An older woman (seasoned saint) said to me, well you know what to do ask your Father and she looked up!
> 
> So i did. This was on a Tuesday night. The following Sunday, i atteneded an annual gospel concert. There was standing room only. I had a seat. I looked up towards the the end of my pew. Oh my there was a Jewish guy standing there. After the concert i tlked to him. i told him my prayer. he was like, well here I am. When he told me he was a Rabbi I almost passsed the heck out. *When God answers, he answers.* he invited me the the service. I have not made it there yet, but I will.


 
Tell me about it...God surely does answer.


----------



## gn1g (Dec 29, 2006)

I had this explained to me years ago when I was very young the man was a muslim.  He showed it to me in scriptures and he abided by the Lev 11 rules of eating.  He just absolutely hate "the man" who was hiding all of this info.  

Love the name of her yahoo group.  However I didn't join.  I heard in my spirit the scripture about being lead away (maybe it was the devil) I'll pray about it.


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Dec 29, 2006)

I always wondered if the Jews (as we know them) were the chosen people, how could the NOT know the Messiah?  It was always a mystery to me.  Maybe the real issue is the people are displaced and don't know who THEY are.  I would say that the majority of black were raised Christian and are practicing Christians.  It gives me a chill to think that God found a way to keep us believing in His Son through all the toils we have been through.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 29, 2006)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> I always wondered if the Jews (as we know them) were the chosen people, how could the NOT know the Messiah? It was always a mystery to me. Maybe the real issue is the people are displaced and don't know who THEY are. I would say that the majority of black were raised Christian and are practicing Christians. It gives me a chill to think that God found a way to keep us believing in His Son through all the toils we have been through.


 
He promised that He would never leave us nor forsake us.  God has never rescinded His word.   Not one word of His precious promises have failed and they never will.

Loving the undisputed Truth....


----------



## pebbles (Dec 29, 2006)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> No more posts, PM me, that's it.


 
Fair enough. I'll make sure your wishes are respected. This is a great thread, and I don't want to see it ruined by any disagreement that can be discussed via pm.


----------



## pebbles (Dec 29, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Pebs, I am so excited about this. God has truly answered prayer.
> 
> My history and 'White' experience is not a big secret here. This information from tsiporah (who is truly sent to us of God) is so important to me on a personal level that no White person could ever give me. This is a beautiful gift to have...knowing the Truth about our Heritage...Biblically! Wooo Hoo!
> 
> ...


 
Hey sweetie!  How's the vacation going?

I have sooooo much reading to do! But I'm glad. There's a lot I didn't know.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 29, 2006)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Hey sweetie!  How's the vacation going?
> 
> I have sooooo much reading to do! But I'm glad. There's a lot I didn't know.



My "Home" visit and vacation is wonderful.  I have a secret...don't fuss at me.  I've been shopping like C...R...A...Z...Y   But I've gotten $100's of worth of items for 25 cents on the dollar...75% off.     Hint:  CVS, Bath and Body Works, JC Penny's and a host of other stores.  I'll fill you in via PM.

On Topic... Pebs I love this history lesson.... Gee Whiz, it is so rich and *it's all TRUTH *... undisputed and scriptually based.   Ummmm, I've been reading. 

But I'm glad. There's a lot I didn't know. There are just too many gaps in our history. What a wonderful way to start the New Year... learning Truth. 

I'm getting the emails from the "Regathering Sheep" forum each time there is a post there and it comes directly to me in my 'home' email address.  This way, I won't miss anything.  This information is too rich to lose. 

FYI:  Pebs, on the yahoo group site, my screen name is 'Blessedx8...'.   I just wanted you to 'recognize' me, that's all.  I'm not trying to hide.     I've had Yahoo for quite some time.  So it was very easy for me to join Tsiporah's group.


----------



## AngelicRose07 (Dec 30, 2006)

wow, this has been a very interesting thread!


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2006)

weaveitup said:
			
		

> wow, this has been a very interesting thread!


 
*Indeed it is!*  And no one can dispute it.*  It's Truth*...


----------



## Mynappturalme (Dec 30, 2006)

Zeal said:
			
		

> There is a Jewish comminity about 15 minutes a way from me. There is a Synagogue actoss the street from the health food store. It is called *Beth Yeshua.* I was invited there in 99 by a Rabbi. They believe in Jesus.
> 
> Here is my story of how I met the Rabbi . I was in Bible class. I was saying how much wanted to meet a Jew for Jesus. Because it has to be awsome. The whole history thing, they speak hebrew and they love Jesus. An older woman (seasoned saint) said to me, well you know what to do ask your Father and she looked up!
> 
> So i did. This was on a Tuesday night. The following Sunday, i atteneded an annual gospel concert. There was standing room only. I had a seat. I looked up towards the the end of my pew. Oh my there was a Jewish guy standing there. After the concert i tlked to him. i told him my prayer. he was like, well here I am. When he told me he was a Rabbi I almost passsed the heck out. When God answers, he answers. he invited me the the service. I have not made it there yet, but I will.


 
It's funny you say that, I have been looking for a church (Jews for Jesus) so that I can see and know their teachings, I'm about to pray too .  This thread is very interesting.  Thanks Tsiporah for the information.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2006)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> Wow! Can't believe I missed this one... I just now skimmed through it but I know why someone out there rated it poorly...
> 
> I have one question for the OP... Do you believe that Yeshua, Jesus the Christ came for ALL (Black, white, yellow, brown, red) people to be saved and have eternity with God?
> 
> ...


In fairness, please post what backs this up about the KKK.  Either way, I'm not discouraged.

My question is why in the name of Jesus would the KKK support anyone or anything pertaining to Blacks or Jews.  They hate both...with them it's all about white supremacy. 

There will always be facts in question about any history...why?  None of us were there to create or to take direct part in it.   However, there is too much here to support that KKK or not, we have a rich Heritage to be proud of as a Black race.  Something that the KKK or any white man could ever give to us and neither can they take it away.  

"We' do have a rich Heritage.  And there are too many missing elements of information of our foundation which has been hidden from us.  

I'll add this, if indeed the KKK has any part in any of this, you can be sure that there are more than enough of us to kick them out on their white supremes and take it back and have the full control that we were intended to have in the first place. 

"We've' been raped enough of what is ours.  The KKK did not create us nor do they make us or define and neither can nor will they re-define who were are in our origins that God so intended.   

This is still ours, *not theirs *and I dare any of them to even think about trying to come burn a cross on my Righteous Bloodline, for this information in this thread still connects me to Jesus and all that pertains to Him.  

You see the devil is always trying to steal the credit for what God has intended.  Do you really think the KKK can take an ounce, let alone a flea of credit for what is ours by God's design and birthright.   If anything they are trying to undermine what God has called us...Kings and Priests of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Something that they can never take away.  

The issue here is obtaining information.  Information that is still Truth and is still "ours".   Have you not noticed the mess that the Black church is still in.  If anything, 'our' heritage in Jesus has been under the sole control of the white world be it the KKK or those whites who have the same 'supreme' mindset against us, though they do not wear the 'sheets' and hoods.   

Yes!  We are a heritage of the Lord and grafted into the Vine (Jesus/Jeshua/The Messiah), yet we.. DO NOT LIVE IT!  What is it still the white churches are the ones which still flourish and  yet we still have 'Store Fronts'?   What does it take to keep us out of the prayer lines for rent money, gas and electric bills, and let alone groceries and shoes for our children.  

What in the name of Jesus does it take for us as Blacks to get our men off of drugs, homosexuality, wife beating, broken homes, mixed families, meaning too many 'Daddy babies' and Baby mama's and AIDS?  What does it take for our education to flourish and to have descent homes and neighborhoods, let alone descent schools and school materials and teachers for 'our' Black children?  

Our prayers are still based upon 'basic' survival.  Things that we should have long overcome.  Why is this in comparison to the whites, be it the KKK or the K's undercover masquarading as our fellow brothers?

The difference is knowing 'who' we are and being proud of it.  And not just saying so, but literally believing so, because we have the written history to back it up.   "We' have not been grounded as a people.  Which is why we are staggering at every wind that blows our way.  When and where do we summon up the sails to guide through the waters of this life?  

Yes, it should very well be Jesus, but it's not taking the effect upon us that God has intended it to.  Anyone can get saved.  But Jesus said something to us that is Key:  "The poor you will have with you always."  Why is that?  Why are we still the minority?  Minority in and out of Jesus. 

I'll put this out there.  When it comes to the Church, we are still 'borrowing' Jesus.  The white world has made sure of it.  Anything we step out to do in the name of the Lord, you can be sure there a white man out there taking the credit for it.   In other words, 'we' as Blacks are incapable of doing it ourselves without help from 'them' in one form or another.  In their minds, they are lending us not only the funds, jobs, etc., but they are also 'lending' us Jesus.  

We don't get the credit for receiving Jesus on our own.  Why? For it was 'they' who brought us over 'here' and they had to teach us who God is.   Yet, we had Him all along and we have been 'raped' of this gift of knowledge. 

Because we don't have anything of ourselves to believe in.  Jesus is surely my Rock and upon Him I will always stand.  I've kicked the rear end of many a devil and I will continue to for I know my Spritual weapons...and I am use them well.   

Yet....as a race, I am still too far behind than God intended for me to be.  All of us are.  Look at the headlines; the altar calls, the cries for help.  Not all of this among us should be.  

You may be right, the KKK may have a hand in some of this.  But I'll tell you something *if *they do, get ready to see Blood.  For I am not about to be raped of my Black Hertiage ever again.  God gave to us...and it has been hidden from us far too long.  It's time to take it back and be the leaders in the fullness that God intended. 

All in peace....


----------



## live2bgr8 (Dec 30, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> In fairness, post what backs this up about the KKK.
> 
> My question is why in the name of Jesus would the KKK support anyone or anything pertaining to Blacks or Jews. They hate both...with them it's all about white supremacy.
> 
> ...


 
Yes-- before you replied I deleted my statement... Sorry for any confusion... I humbly apologize to the OP... She does not seem to be a part of a group called the "Black Hebrew Isrealites".. ..This is a hate group that is diametrically opposed to the Klan. Think-- a black Klan-- They hate whites and jews-- yes-- this type of hatred exists  falsely proclaiming the name of Jesus... I jumped the gun, when I thought that she was a part of this hate group...

But when I went back and saw that she said she believed that Jesus came for ALL people, I figured she was not a part of this group (Black Hebrew Isrealites) and deleted my post...


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2006)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> Yes-- before you replied I deleted my statement... Sorry for any confusion... I humbly apologize to the OP... She does not seem to be a part of a group called the "Black Hebrew Isrealites".. ..This is a hate group that is diametrically opposed to the Klan. Think-- a black Klan-- They hate whites and jews-- yes-- this type of hatred exists falsely proclaiming the name of Jesus... I jumped the gun, when I thought that she was a part of this hate group...
> 
> But when I went back and saw that she said she believed that Jesus came for ALL people, I figured she was not a part of this group (Black Hebrew Isrealites) and deleted my post...


 
I know your heart   And with so much to read here, I would have fired the gun.  

But I know your heart.  I'm still reading and relating scripture as we well should.  I'm glad you made your post.  I got to 'beat down' on the KKK.   But not you...

Loving hugs....


----------



## live2bgr8 (Dec 30, 2006)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> I know your heart  And with so much to read here, I would have fired the gun.
> 
> But I know your heart. I'm still reading and relating scripture as we well should. I'm glad you made your post. *I got to 'beat down' on the KKK.  But not you...*
> 
> Loving hugs....


 
 I hear ya! Loving hugs to you, too.   When I saw your post, I was like OH NO! I set off one of the sweetest people on this board.  

Again, I'm sorry to everyone-- especially the OP-- for any confusion...


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2006)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> I hear ya! Loving hugs to you, too.  When I saw your post, I was like OH NO! I set off one of the sweetest people on this board.
> 
> Again, I'm sorry to everyone-- especially the OP-- for any confusion...


 
Nawww, it's my hormones...  

You were right to make your post though.  Because it raises a question regarding the KKK that someone else may have brought into this thread.  Coming from you is far better.  Your heart was in your post.


----------



## pebbles (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm glad you guys cleared that up. 

Tsiporah is not going to be responding to this thread anymore, so anyone who has questions or comments for her should send them to her directly via pm. Don't post them here because she will not respond. Thanks!


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 31, 2006)

pebbles said:
			
		

> *I'm glad you guys cleared that up. *
> 
> Tsiporah is not going to be responding to this thread anymore, so anyone who has questions or comments for her should send them to her directly via pm. Don't post them here because she will not respond. Thanks!


I couldn't let you down....   I told my hormones to 'hush'...and to get thee behind me...they're not the 'boss' of me.


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Jan 1, 2007)

From wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Lost_Tribes

"The Tribe of Judah and the Tribe of Benjamin joined together to form the Kingdom of Judah and are traditionally considered the ancestors of most of today's Jews. The Tribe of Levi, was assigned hereditary religious duties and did not receive any tribal land. (Genealogical DNA tests link Aaron, a Levite who was the founder of a caste of priests (Hebrew: Kohen, pl. Kohanim), to living males who believe they are his descendants (see Y-chromosomal Aaron)). *The remaining tribes (Reuben, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Ephraim, Manasseh) are considered lost.*"

Wow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igbo_Jews


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Jan 1, 2007)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> From wikipedia:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Lost_Tribes
> 
> ...


What's the "wow" for?  I don't understand?


----------



## tsiporah (Jan 1, 2007)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> Yes-- before you replied I deleted my statement... Sorry for any confusion... I humbly apologize to the OP... She does not seem to be a part of a group called the "Black Hebrew Isrealites".. ..This is a hate group that is diametrically opposed to the Klan. Think-- a black Klan-- They hate whites and jews-- yes-- this type of hatred exists falsely proclaiming the name of Jesus... I jumped the gun, when I thought that she was a part of this hate group...
> 
> But when I went back and saw that she said she believed that Jesus came for ALL people, I figured she was not a part of this group (Black Hebrew Isrealites) and deleted my post...


 

Shalom Kelouis,
LOL!!  Love you sis!  You know something, I do understand you.
Truthfully there are some "Black Hebrew Israelite" group that are full of hate.  They got a lot of truth but have alot of hate.
That is what draggs the name "Israelite" in the mud.  There are those who accept Yahusha as messiah and accept all people and other who do believe the same and are very off key.
Sister, there are certain truths that have been hidden and has unfortunately not been beneficial to us as a people.  As a matter of fact many of our people have died throughout the generations because of many lies that were/are told.
There has been a question asked by our folk and that is why are we always at the bottom? What happened that we ended up this way? Why does everyone else have an ancient heritage they can trace but us?  What do our people act strange? Why are we so spiritual?
The answer is soooo simple and it occur in scripture but the churchs for various reasons don't teach it.  I have talked with a brother who used to be a Pastor who is now an observant Nazarene Hebrew. (I prefer this term). He says that many in the churches, KNOW this information but refuse to share it with the congregation. At most they will throw scraps.  Why do they not share info?  Because they will lose tithes and thus their career money.
The information is very deep and Truth is being revealed in these Last Days.
Another thing,  The color issue started with Europeans who thought to change the color of the paintings of Israel. Even a scientist started dividing people along colorlines.  So since color became an issue we have to address it...even though we weren't the ones to start it.

Let me show a pic:


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][FONT=georgia,times new roman,times,serif][FONT=georgia,times new roman,times,serif]Icons in the Annunciation Cathedral of the Moscow Kremlin. [/FONT]​[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT]
*




*​

This  picture is how the Russians thought of us.  This was during the 13th-15th centuries(in their eyes the Israelites looked like this in these centuries too!!). The question we must ask is: why did it change?  What agenda was taking place?

The answer is in scripture:


*Psalm 83 **83:1 Keep not thou silence, O El: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O Elohim.*
*83:2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.*
*83:3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.*
*83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.*
*83:5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:*
*83:6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;*
*83:7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;*
*83:8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.*
*83:9 Do unto them as unto the Midianites; as to Sisera, as to Jabin, at the brook of Kison:*
*83:10 Which perished at Endor: they became as dung for the earth.*
*83:11 Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna:*
*83:12 Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of Elohim in possession.*
*83:13 O my Elohim, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.*
*83:14 As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire;*
*83:15 So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.*
*83:16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(Yahuah).*
*83:17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:*
*83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(Yahuah), art the most high over all the earth.*

Even though ancient peoples were mentioned, this has occured in ancient times as well as historical times close to us.  Some still exist that began the ushing in of a most terrible exile.  Ishmael (Arabs) began it, TransAtlantic Slave Trade. Other peoples had a hand in it too. 
*They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.*
Not only did they put us out of rememberance---_WE forgot ourselves_.  The peoples who wanted us out of the land was so that they can have the land.
Some Edomites exist today and some reside within modern Judaism, the other half is Japhetic. Then you have Ishmael and so on.

So the telling of our history is the Restoration of our own people, not reverse racism.  It is placing the object back where it belongs.  It is like asking that a house be painted red and it is painted red.  But the painter decides he wants your house and has an agenda and then paints it blue.  you come along and say...NO!..I wanted it red.  This is what is happening.


So I just wanted to clear it up.  I know what you are talking about and I can't stand _them _either.  Yahusha Messiah came for all people. And any who accept Him and do His commands shall live.

Tsipy


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Jan 1, 2007)

What is the difference between an Isreali and an Isrealite?


----------



## Zeal (Jan 1, 2007)

This has been a very exciting thread.  I am in awe and can barely speak.

I know that I will be up in Beth Yeshua very soon now.  In an early post i stated that that I live 15 minutes away from a Jewish Community.

I have been invited to beth Yeshua and never made it.

This thread blew my mind.


----------



## CaramelMiSS (Jan 1, 2007)

My mother went to conversion classes (yes conversion classes but people were asking her why did she need to take conversion classes) and this lady who is from Isreal and who is Safardic (sp) says that the people over in Isreal do not take kind to the Ashkenazis(sp) for some reason.  I also met this Safardic Jew who is Spanish and many of them realize that they were once our color but because of mixing with Europe (because of Rome and Greek) they became light in complexion.


----------



## tsiporah (Jan 1, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> What is the difference between an Isreali and an Isrealite?


 
*Israeli-* A person who lives in Israel (not always a descendant of Israel, it is just like saying, one is an American but not all are Native American)

*Israelite-* a descendent of Jacob whose name changed to Israel. 
_____________________

Not all who observe 'judaism' are of the Twelve Tribes, the infamous Ashkenazi Jew today(the ones we are all familiar with) is actually from Khazaria.  Their people converted to 'judaism' in 740 A.D.

I also wanted to add concerning our people:

_Why are we in the state we are in today????  DISOBEDIENCE to the Father by not obeying the Commandments and Statutes._

Deut. 28:58-68  (Read the entire chapter....this part is our punishment below)
*28:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THY Elohim;
28:59 Then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(Yahuah) will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
28:60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law(AIDS???EBOLA???), them will 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
28:62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thy Elohim.
28:63 And it shall come to pass, that as 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
28:64 And 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other elohim, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
28:65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
28:66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
28:67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would Elohim it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would Elohim it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
*****28:68 And 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.
(This is the Slave Trade. Egypt in Hebrew is Mitsraim which means bondage.  So you can read the verse as, And Yahuah shall bring thee into BONDAGE again with ships...keep in mind you do not need ships to get to physical Egypt.  But the ONLY massive transporting of slaves in history by ships was involving the so-called Africans who were actually descendents of Israel.

"no man shall buy you" .....what does this mean?? In ancient times, one can purchase some one out of slavery. Or you can serve so many years then you are free.  In the Western form, in Brazil and in some islands, the slave was worked to death and in North America, slaves were slaves for life and bred to reproduce more.

The scripture about serving "other elohim vs. 64" PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that one can be a physical blood Israelite and be of another religion. 
*


----------



## CaramelMiSS (Jan 1, 2007)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> *Israeli-* A person who lives in Israel (not always a descendant of Israel, it is just like saying, one is an American but not all are Native American)
> 
> *Israelite-* a descendent of Jacob whose name changed to Israel.
> _____________________
> ...


 
The "scatter thee amoung all people"  is soo true, we are all different types of colors as a result to being scattered.  Oh and another thing way back in King David and Solomons day Africa was not called Africa some parts were called Egypt and some were called Ethopia but both were greater in size than they are today, and after the Europeans came and started trying to conquer everything Ethopia was reduced in size and is the small eastern country in Africa it is today not to mention it is also one of the countries to either never be conquered or was granted independence first.


----------



## tsiporah (Jan 5, 2007)

CaramelMiSS said:
			
		

> My mother went to conversion classes (yes conversion classes but people were asking her why did she need to take conversion classes) and this lady who is from Isreal and who is Safardic (sp) says that the people over in Isreal do not take kind to the Ashkenazis(sp) for some reason. I also met this Safardic Jew who is Spanish and many of them realize that they were once our color but because of mixing with Europe (because of Rome and Greek) they became light in complexion.


 
Yes you are correct.  Particularly those of Spain were under the *Moorish people* _(Those African muslims and Israelites that Europeans could not tell the difference between.)_

This is why the Ashkenazi 'jews' called some of them ******S (Cushi)!  These Sephardic people only LOOK white...lol  Think Mariah Carey. Some Sephardics are just Shemetic but not quite Israel. Some are rumored to be Edomite but observing Hebraic Ways.

But for the most part, many (Israelites) are still of color.  There is a LARGE group in the States, Carribean i.e. Haiti, Cuba, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, and South America...and you know who those are!! Then you have those in Asia. So atleast 90% of blood line Israel is of color, the remaining 10% could be of europeaness but they would have mixed.  The white contigent does exist but it very small compared to the rest of the world and those of our ancestors who existed before hand!!


But yes there is some hate between Ashkenazi and Sepharad.  We would be Sepharad also because some of our ancestors were in Spain during the BlackaMoor times and were kicked out around the Columbus time (1492).

*Authentic Jews* explains this.

The term *Moor*, don't let it fool you.  Some say it means muslim. it is false because it is a term given by Romans to black people (and Israelites were under this banner) The term *Maur*- is in Maur-etania, then you have *Mor*-occo.

Europeans did not physically know the difference between and African muslim and an Israelite. Soooo they were all called Moors.  _Think of Morgan Freeman in that Robin Hood movie with Kevin Costner._


----------



## tsiporah (Jan 5, 2007)

An added note:

I just wanted to add racism does not just stop because two people of different backgrounds hold hands and sing songs or because they are in the same day care.

Racism stops when the Truth is told.   Putting hands together is nothing more than a band aid on an injury that does not heal.  Why? Because the root cause has not been dealth with.

In order for the root cause to be dealt with it will take a very skilled surgeon to fix the problem.  And most of the time, it is a lengthy and painful process.

Truth can hurt, especially to those who want to continue using band aids. 

But healing only comes to those who want to find the root cause of an illness.  They know they will go through pain, but they look forward to the end result.


This thread originally was intended to connect with others like me, but the Father evidently had other plans. 

So to my surprise there were many people who were hungry for Truth (Emet!!) Many now know who they are in culture and are also learning _The Ways of the Apostles._

This was not to incite any form of racism what so ever, but there are those who see it in such a way because of life long _misinformation_.  Not necessarily because they are bad people, they could be the coolest folks! Misinformation could be a terrible thing and at times harmful. All of us were misinformation about ourselves.

Misinformation and lies has harmed our people as well as others for many generations i.e. Native Americans.

And if it takes delicate and careful surgery to fix it, then that is what it takes! Just be aware that surgery isn't without pain.

For those of us with mixed parentage.... And that is most of us, we have defined our selves by the parent or ancestor that is non-black but have been ignorant as to what our black parentage is. Yeah, we know "dey from Af'ica" But who are they? What is their language? Who are their parents? Well, now you know.  This information should not be taken as a disrespecting notion towards the parent or ancestor of non-black background.  Heck half Chinese and Half Italian know who they are!!! It would only be fair for those who only know the one half to have some esteem in the African half. 

Right now today, there are Caucasian people who know this Truth and accept it.  Some even teach it. 

But when Black people try to teach it, they are shunned by other black people and are often told they are 'racist'.  What?!  Hmmm....we can be backwards and it really shows the slave mentality that we possess.  Hidden cursings will not heal the root cause of illness.  Singing _Kum Bah Yah_ will not heal the root cause of color cancer.   Forced mixing and intergration won't fix it either.  You will just end up with mixed misinformation.  THE world needs to know!

Those who claim _'it don't matter'_ are REALLY misinformed....and blind as a bat to reality.

It certainly mattered to a European scientist who wanted to start dividing man by colorlines that it permeated European society, as well as American and then the world.  It is a malignant cancer that needs to be cut out and it starts with the double edged sword of Truth. And it is very sharp!

But now that we know what has been posted, what do you do now? Keep the info to yourself?  Share it? Change? Or do we return to our regularly scheduled program in our daily, "As the World Turns"? Do we continue to bippidy-bop to the latest empty minded tunes..and buy them? 

Angry or not, these are things we must meditate on for the time being.  For there are changes in the direction of wind coming and sooner than you think!

_Love you all_...even the misinformed.


----------



## Shimmie (Jan 5, 2007)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> An added note:
> 
> I just wanted to add racism does not just stop because two people of different backgrounds hold hands and sing songs or because they are in the same day care.
> 
> ...


 
I'm glad you posted this.  Beautifully shared and wonderfully needed.  

God bless you, Tsiporah...


----------



## live2bgr8 (Jan 5, 2007)

We love you, too...   I'm glad to see you came back...  Thank you for sharing your intent...

Information is powerful... misuse of information can be crippling... Abuse of information can be spiritually deadly. Adam and Eve learned the hard way. And there are many people from all corners of the globe who are going to reap a bitter harvest for twisting God's truth.

Most blacks are fully aware that racism is alive and kicking today--even in neo-America. But it's a two way street now. 

While working for the American Bible Society, I studied many essays and research articles concerning black people in the Bible. When you get the chance, you may want to check out the Jubilee Bible. It is not a translation, but contains many of these articles. 

So, there is not a single doubt in my mind that blacks share in the rich heritage of the Bible. One can read any English translation and know it.

That's why I posted the response that I did... Not out of a sense of "oh, the wool has been pulled over my eyes because I think racism is dead" On the contrary. 

Unfortunately, groups like KKK, Neo-Nazis, Black Hebrew Israelites, and others still distort the truth and breed hatred. They take one kernel of information and run with it-- just like the serpent did in the garden.

The reason many of these so called "Christian" or "Messianic" groups pop up is this: They want to say "Jesus, looks like me and therefore loves me and my people the most." 

I thought this false ideology was an undercurrent of this thread. I was concerned because it's easy to get distracted with earthly things which range the gamut from material and political to fleshly, personal and lustful.

IMO, only one thing should resound in a believers mind. It will tune out all temporal things and rise above the static:

Jesus loved us so much that he died and was resurrected for our sins. 

There is a reason Jesus came when he did-- no cameras, movies, voice recordings. God knew his physical appearance would be a stumbling block for many. It was a stumbling block then. And it still is... 

Just think about the reaction to the A&E (history channel??) special that was done a few years back. People were up in arms when forensic scientists revealed their speculations of a thick haired, short in stature, slightly rotund, darker skinned, rough looking Jesus.

According to their calculations, he didn't look anything like the Renaissance paintings. However, he didn't look like Shaka the famous Zulu Warrior king, Fredrick Douglass, W. E. B. Du Bois, Shemar Moore, Sidney Poitier, Harry Bellefonte, Denzel Washington, or Tyson Beckford either.

The Bible, which should be our final authority, has very few earthly descriptions of Jesus:

"He had no form or comeliness that we should look at Him, and no beauty that we should desire Him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces He was despised, and we esteemed Him not" (Isaiah 53:2-3 RSV)

And

"He had to be made like His brethren in every respect" (Hebrews 2:17 RSV)


We also know, he came from a line of "short and ruddy" people... See 1 Samuel 16:11-12.


In the Bible, there are other heavenly descriptions of Jesus, but he is in his spiritual body at that point.

The fact still remains, both believing Jews and believing Greeks (gentiles) have one bloodline to the Father and that is through Jesus Christ. (see Romans 1:16) No matter what he looked like, he is still our redeemer.

This information has been very entertaining... But as individuals we also have to ask ourselves. What are my motives? Do I hold on to bitterness and past wrongs or can I move beyond them? Do I use this information to elevate myself or esteem myself above others? Or do I ponder upon it and continue to keep my eyes on the eternal prize?

We can only control the way we think-- not the way others do....

*What would Y'shua Do?*




			
				tsiporah said:
			
		

> An added note:
> 
> I just wanted to add racism does not just stop because two people of different backgrounds hold hands and sing songs or because they are in the same day care.
> 
> ...


----------



## tsiporah (Jan 5, 2007)

Well the best scriptures I know of come from:

*The Scriptures*  It replaces the hebraic thinking that was taken out as well as the Hebrew names.

Let me clarify something off the bat here:


Not all those who call themselves 'Black Hebrew Israelites" are racist. Some can run with a point but not all.
According to ancient historians who saw the Israelites themselves, they were of African typing (I will have quotes later, short and ruddy can be quite nebulous and ften abused to state that they were not African looking)
This thread was not to be entertaining, but informative.
I have no personal motives.....maybe the Father does.
I am not trying to uplift myself.
I have already made the point several times, in more ways than one that yes, we are one Romans 11.  But PLEASE do not negate the fact that there is still misinformation that needs to be handled.  And if someone has the information to share then albeit, it should be done.

I did not come on here to impress or to be a know it all or to 'segregate'.

It is all part of the Restoration of ALL matters.

This may seem new to many but there are those who are benefiting.



But what we must admit is that there are things that have been taught that aren't so.  Or simply a lack of teaching.

What Would Yahusha Do?  Tell the Truth.



If there is one thing I do many years ago is that I got on my knees and prayed and asked for Truth.  We can not always assume that the ways we walk in is the path that the Father wants us on.

In the last days Yahuah is bringing up His people and this is happening.

Zec 2:11
2:11 And many nations shall be joined to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

Zec 8:22-23
8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
8:23 Thus saith 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of hosts; *In those days* it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that Elohim is with you.


----------



## tsiporah (Jan 5, 2007)

Quotes:

_Gerald Massey, English writer and author of the book, Egypt the Light of the World, wrote, *"The dignity is so ancient that the insignia of the Pharaoh evidently belonged to the time when Egyptians wore nothing but the girdle of the Negro." (p 251)*_


Sir Richard Francis Burton, a 19th century English explorer, writer and linguist in 1883 wrote to Gerald Massey, *"You are quite right about the "AFRICAN" origin of the Egyptians. I have 100 human skulls to prove it."* Scientist, R. T. Prittchett, states in his book The Natural History of Man, *"In their complex and many of the complexions and in physical peculiarities the Egyptians were an "AFRICAN" race (p 124-125).* 




The Program was called 'THE COMPLETE JESUS'. Dr. Mark Goodacre (pictured) stated, it would have been hard for Yahshuah to hide among the Egyptians, if he didnâ€™t look like the Egyptians. He was making the point that Yahshuah could not have been a man of white hue. He admitted in the program that Yahshuah was a dark /black skinned man. 

HERE IS HIS EXACT QUOTE FROM THE PROGRAM ENTITLED THE COMPLETE JESUS.
â€œNow itâ€™s very unlikely that Jesus would have been able to be HIDDEN in Egypt, if he had a very different color of SKIN from the people in Egypt.â€ He also made mention that the Israelites of the first to third centuries wore their hair in Afro's, and wore short crop black beards.   This is only the tip of the iceberg, you can't hold down the truth.


----------



## tsiporah (Jan 5, 2007)

Now for the ANCIENT historians with sense:


_*According to Tacitus, these Yahudites are rumored to be a race of Ethiopian origin. .*_ 
[*]_*According to Tacitus, it was rumored that the cities they founded were called "the Hebrew country."*_ 
[*]_* According to Tacitus, these people were "the most degraded out of other races."*_ 
------The Beginning----------
Tacitus' Comment: 

"Some say that the Israelites  were fugitives from the island of Crete, who settled on the nearest coast of Africa about the time when Saturn was driven from his throne by the power of Jupiter. 
Evidence of this is sought in the name. There is a famous mountain in Crete called Ida; the neighboring tribe, the Idaei, came to be called Judaei by a barbarous lengthening of the national name. 
Others assert that in the reign of Isis the overflowing population of Egypt, led by Hierosolymus and Judas, discharged itself into the neighboring countries. 
_*Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin, who in the time of king Cepheus were driven by fear and hatred of their neighbors to seek a new dwelling-place.*_ 
Others describe them as an Assyrian horde who, not having sufficient territory, took possession of part of Egypt, and founded cities of their own in what is called the Hebrew country, lying on the borders of Syria. Others, again, assign a very distinguished origin to the Jews, alleging that they were the Solymi, a nation celebrated in the poems of Homer, who called the city which they founded Hierosolyma after their own name. 
Most writers, however, agree in stating that once a disease, which horribly disfigured the body, broke out over Egypt; that king Bocchoris, seeking a remedy, consulted the oracle of Hammon, and was bidden to cleanse his realm, and to convey into some foreign land this race detested by the gods. 
The people, who had been collected after diligent search, finding themselves left in a desert, sat for the most part in a stupor of grief, till one of the exiles, Moyses by name, warned them not to look for any relief from God or man, forsaken as they were of both, but to trust to themselves, taking for their heaven-sent leader that man who should first help them to be quit of their present misery. 
They agreed, and in utter ignorance began to advance at random. Nothing, however, distressed them so much as the scarcity of water, and they had sunk ready to perish in all directions over the plain, when a herd of wild asses was seen to retire from their pasture to a rock to a rock shaded by trees. 
Moyses followed them, and, guided by the appearance of a grassy spot, discovered an abundant spring of water. This furnished relief. After a continuous journey for six days, on the seventh they possessed themselves of a country, from which they expelled the inhabitants, and in which they founded a city and a temple. 
Moyses, wishing to secure for the future his authority over the nation, gave them a novel form of worship, opposed to all that is practiced by other men. Things sacred with us, with them have no sanctity, while they allow what with us is forbidden. In their holy place they have consecrated an image of the animal by whose guidance they found deliverance from their long and thirsty wanderings. They slay the ram, seemingly in derision of Hammon, and they sacrifice the ox, because the Egyptians worship it as Apis. 
They abstain from swine's flesh, in consideration of what they suffered when they were infected by the leprosy to which this animal is liable. By their frequent fasts they still bear witness to the long hunger of former days, and the Jewish bread, made without leaven, is retained as a memorial of their hurried seizure of corn. 
We are told that the rest of the seventh day was adopted, because this day brought with it a termination of their toils; after a while the charm of indolence beguiled them into giving up the seventh year also to inaction. 
But others say that it is an observance in honor of Saturn, either from the primitive elements of their faith having been transmitted from the Idaei, who are said to have shared the flight of that God, and to have founded the race, or from the circumstance that of the seven stars which rule the destinies of men, Saturn moves in the highest orbit and with the mightiest power, and that many of the heavenly bodies complete their revolutions and courses in multiples of seven. 
This worship, however introduced, is upheld by its antiquity; all their other customs, which are at once perverse and disgusting, owe their strength to their very badness. The most degraded out of other races, scorning their national beliefs, brought to them their contributions and presents. 
This augmented the wealth of the Jews, as also did the fact, that among themselves they are inflexibly honest and ever ready to shew compassion, though they regard the rest of mankind with all the hatred of enemies. They sit apart at meals, they sleep apart, and though, as a nation, they are singularly prone to lust, they abstain from intercourse with foreign women; among themselves nothing is unlawful. Circumcision was adopted by them as a mark of difference from other men. Those who come over to their religion adopt the practice, and have this lesson first instilled into them, to despise all gods, to disown their country, and set at nought parents, children, and brethren."


----------



## tsiporah (Jan 5, 2007)

I think I have supplied enough evidence to say what is what.

If someone picks it up, then wonderful.  

But what people wanted to know, I wanted to be helpful enough to provide some information.

And it should not be demoted to mere 'entertainment'.  What I get from that particular comment is a sense of arrogance and non acceptance. Let me know if I am wrong because sometimes a thought can get lost when one does not hear the voice of another.  But I felt it was rather off-puttish.

If one sees it as entertainment, then hey, I can do nothing but move on to those who take it seriously.  This is not Hee-hee  funny. 

One does not have to comment.  As a matter of fact it does not have to be read by those who want to remain where they are.


But you are right Kelouis one does have to question their own agenda and motives.  

May be you can start a thread of your own for those who prefer entertainment of the sort you are looking for? But I will not be responding to any more of your particular posts.  Please PM me if you have a comment towards me or what I say.  Any posts by you I will simply skip. (If I am being too assuming, let me know. I am a fair person.  But I just simply detected an air of arrogance which I did not like coming from you and to be honest I feel very disappointed. )


I still think we need to wake up!

Tsipy


----------



## live2bgr8 (Jan 5, 2007)

I don't mean to offend. Like you, I seek truth (and wisdom). Please see my comments in red below...



			
				tsiporah said:
			
		

> Well the best scriptures I know of come from:
> 
> *The Scriptures* It replaces the hebraic thinking that was taken out as well as the Hebrew names.
> 
> ...


----------



## live2bgr8 (Jan 6, 2007)

Again I'm sorry if I offened you... There really is an organized group of people called the "Black Hebrew Israelites" Please see this article on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites


----------



## Belle Du Jour (Jan 6, 2007)

tsiporah said:
			
		

> _Why are we in the state we are in today????  DISOBEDIENCE to the Father by not obeying the Commandments and Statutes._



When you say disobedience, do you mean not practicing judaism or not living right in general?  And do you mean collectively or as individuals?


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 7, 2011)

live2bgr8 said:


> We love you, too...   I'm glad to see you came back...  Thank you for sharing your intent...
> 
> Information is powerful... misuse of information can be crippling... Abuse of information can be spiritually deadly. Adam and Eve learned the hard way. And there are many people from all corners of the globe who are going to reap a bitter harvest for twisting God's truth.
> 
> ...



Excellent Post...


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2011)

Why is there a snake in Tsipora's avitar? 

She's no longer a member here, so I'm unable to ask her.


----------



## BostonMaria (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks for bumping this.  I was just thinking last night hmm I wonder if there are any Messianic Jews on this site.  I have met Messianic Jews at my church and at first I was very confused LOL but it makes sense to me now.  I love listening to Sid Roth's podcasts and his views on the new testament.


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2011)

BostonMaria said:


> Thanks for bumping this.  I was just thinking last night hmm I wonder if there are any Messianic Jews on this site.  I have met Messianic Jews at my church and at first I was very confused LOL but it makes sense to me now.  I love listening to Sid Roth's podcasts and his views on the new testament.



Sid Roth is a blessing.   

My daughter and I also listen to Rabbi Jonathan Bernis 

http://www.jewishvoice.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_Our_Executive_Director

We learn a lot just by 'listening'.


----------



## Crown (Aug 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Why is there a snake in Tsipora's avitar?
> 
> She's no longer a member here, so I'm unable to ask her.



Not a snake. It's a SHOFAR.
An instrument most often made from a ram’s horn, though it can also be made  from the horn of a sheep or goat. It makes a trumpet-like sound and is  traditionally blown on New Moon, Rosh HaShanah...
...
There are many symbolic meanings associated with the shofar and one  of the best known has to do with the Akedah, when God asked Abraham to  sacrifice Isaac. The story is recounted in Genesis 22:1-24 and  culminates with Abraham raising the knife to slay his son only to have  God stay his hand and bring his attention to a ram caught in a nearby  thicket. Abraham sacrificed the ram instead. Because of this story some  midrashim claim that whenever the shofar is blown God will remember  Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son and will therefore forgive  those who hear the shofar’s blasts. In this way, just as the shofar  blasts remind us to turn our hearts towards repentance, they also remind  God to forgive us for our trespasses.
  The shofar is also associated with the idea of crowning God as King  on Rosh HaShanah. The breath used by the Tokea to make the sounds of the  shofar are also associated with the breathe of life, which God first  breathed into Adam upon the creation of humanity.
...

The man who blows the shofar             is required to be of blameless character             and conspicuous devotion; he must blow             blasts of different timbre, some deep,             some high, some quavering.
...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shofar
  The _shofar_ is mentioned frequently in the Hebrew Bible, ... The blast of a shofar emanating from the thick cloud on Mount Sinai made the Israelites tremble in awe (Exodus 18, 20).
  The shofar was used in to announce holidays (Ps. lxxxi. 4), and the Jubilee year (Lev. 25. 9). The first day of the seventh month is termed "a memorial of blowing" (Lev. 23. 24), or "a day of blowing" (Num. xxix. 1), the shofar. They were for signifying the start of a war (Josh. 6. 4; Judges 3. 27; 7. 16, 20; I Sam. 8. 3). Later, it was also employed in processions (II Sam. 6. 15; I Chron. 15. 28), as musical accompaniment (Ps. 98. 6; comp. ib. xlvii. 5) and eventually it was inserted into the temple orchestra by David (Ps. 150. 3). Note that the 'trumpets' described in Numbers 10 are a different instrument, described by the Hebrew word 'trumpet' not the word for shofar.







     [FONT=&quot]  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



[/FONT]


----------



## Guitarhero (Aug 8, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6iNXRVN-WE&feature=related

Wanna hear what it's supposed to sound like?


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2011)

Crown said:


> Not a snake. It's a SHOFAR.
> An instrument most often made from a ram’s horn, though it can also be made  from the horn of a sheep or goat. It makes a trumpet-like sound and is  traditionally blown on New Moon, Rosh HaShanah...
> ...
> There are many symbolic meanings associated with the shofar and one  of the best known has to do with the Akedah, when God asked Abraham to  sacrifice Isaac. The story is recounted in Genesis 22:1-24 and  culminates with Abraham raising the knife to slay his son only to have  God stay his hand and bring his attention to a ram caught in a nearby  thicket. Abraham sacrificed the ram instead. Because of this story some  midrashim claim that whenever the shofar is blown God will remember  Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son and will therefore forgive  those who hear the shofar’s blasts. In this way, just as the shofar  blasts remind us to turn our hearts towards repentance, they also remind  God to forgive us for our trespasses.
> ...





Oh Crown... what are you gonna do with me?     



And I know what a Shofar is because we have several in our Church and my daughter has one.   Each year my family celebrates both Christmas and Hanukkah.  We do the entire ceremony.  I have to show you pictures. 

But the picture looked like a 'snake' to me.   And I even have new reading glasses...with swarowski crystals on the rims... 

My point... I still didn't recgonize the Shofar in the picture ...

Pray for me.   

Thanks Crown...


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6iNXRVN-WE&feature=related
> 
> Wanna hear what it's supposed to sound like?



We have one...  

Thanks for the Youtube video of this though.  

I just can't 'see'...


----------



## Crown (Aug 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Oh Crown... what are you gonna do with me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought you were kidding, but I answered anyway thinking this can still help someone.


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2011)

Crown said:


> I thought you were kidding, but I answered anyway thinking this can still help someone.



 

Crown....   

Hey Angel, I really did 'think' it was a picture of a snake.    I was sitting at my desk and I kept staring at it and wondering, "Why does she have a picture of a snake in her Avatar?"    It reminded me of the movie "The Ten Commandments" when Moses laid down his staff and it transformed into a snake.   

I'm glad that you enlarged the picture for me.   Now the very same picture that you enlarged looks more like a Shofar.    I have to realize that reading glasses are not the same as regular glasses, as I can't see a thing with them outside of 'small print'.       To see 'regular' images and people, I have to look above the rim of the glasses; and look down to read. 

Also, Crown please keep posting your knowledge and wisdom.   It's rich and I enjoy reading what you are sharing.   Especially since you delivered me from seeing 'snakes'....  

Plus it's good use for my new reading glasses...   

Blessings and thanks for the posts.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks for bumping this thread. I got a chance to read it. This thread has some great information in it.  I need to go study.


----------



## Laela (Aug 9, 2011)

LOL   

Hilarious!




Shimmie said:


> Oh Crown... what are you gonna do with me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2011)

Laela said:


> LOL
> 
> Hilarious!



 

My reading glasses  are 'cute' though.    Can't tell me nothing when I put them on.   

I may not be able to 'see' you when I look up, but I sure look cute with them on, 'swars' crystals and all.


----------



## HoneyLove (Aug 11, 2011)

Messianic yes and I am an Israelite. Coming across this thread was a nice surprise.


----------



## Ithacagurl (Aug 11, 2011)

wow subscribing so that I can go back to read.


----------

