# Jamaal Bryant: My Reply to the Email I Received



## Shimmie (Jul 16, 2007)

I received the email about Jamaal Bryant last Friday.  Here was my reply to the Originator and the extremely long, list of forwards that were in the message that I received. 



> Thanks for sharing this.  It's putting out an alert to us that 'our' Body in Christ needs ongoing prayer.
> 
> I'm sure this story has and will continue to be 'exploited.'   Be it true or untrue this does not make him a false phophet.  We have to be careful how we label issues.   A false prophet is one who prophesies lies; and/or his own will.  Well, you know where I'm headed.
> 
> ...


 
This is where we all begin to take a stand for what and in whom we believe.  I'll tell you something else.  This is also an attack of the enemy against  the Black Church...his attempt to render our "Black Leaders" -- mainly our Black Men as worthless, and unable to lead morally and effectively.   

It's about more than a man who did/or did not succumb to temptation.  It's about taking down the most powerful gift we have in our Black heritage.  Our undying faith and trust in God and an attempt to render our witness as null and void.

HOWEVER....satan is STILL  a defeated foe and he will NOT defeat who we are and Whose we are...which is all about Jesus and always will be.


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## klb120475 (Jul 16, 2007)

Well said!


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## Monilove122 (Jul 16, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> I received the email about Jamaal Bryant last Friday. Here was my reply to the Originator and the extremely long, list of forwards that were in the message that I received.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I'm sorry Shimmie (and I just want to say you are an awesome woman of God!!!) but, I think that the Black Church is the problem with the Black Church.  It's not always the enemy (although in some cases it is) but more times than many WE are the problem.  

There is certainly a difference between someone who has fallen & repents, and someone who covers up one deceitful act with another.  Now, although we don't know all of the circumstances with this particular case we (Black Church) have always allowed too much to go on then say it's the enemy when someone calls us out on it.  I've been in church all my life and was taught by my parents early on that it's in God whom I trust not man so I'm so thankful that these types of stories and events have not shaken my faith.  But, by allowing too much to go on we have certainly turned those away that are new babes in Christ, I hear too often about folks KNOWING the Pastor is sleeping with Sis. Such and Such, that Deacon is an alcoholic, this Sis. sleeps with everyone's husband yet they are allowed to have positions of authority and power.  It's absolutely ridiculous.  

Our Black Leaders have proven themselves to be unworthy, Jesse Jackson having an affair and a child out of wedlock, this one being accused of this then that.  If they stop doing the stuff they are doing they wouldn't have these problems.  A minister who I heard speak many times gave this verse when it comes to false prophets and I had to dig a little, LOL but here it is:

"And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness. And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not. And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them." (Ezekiel 33:31-33)

What she explained is that so many preachers come with their own agendas and it appears that they are really going after the things of God cause they know how to talk the talk and it appears that they are walking the walk but in their very heart, they aren't living right.  That's what I think about Pastors, etc. such as Jamal Bryant (again, although there are court documents who knows what happened so I'm just saying those _LIKE _him) they know how to hoop, holla, shout, give you an awesome word will even have you crying and all but - because they are so far from LIVING the gospel they preach they are false.

Now, don't get me wrong, I will pray for him and those like him because as Christians that's what we do, don't condemn but show love and pray for people but to keep saying "the enemy is busy" is a disservice to those who are turned away from the church and most importantly God because of incidents like this.  NO one is saying they should be perfect and we shouldn't look to them to be God cause they are not and that would be worshipping false idols but c'mon, we've (Black Church) have gotta do better.


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## GodsPromises (Jul 16, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> I'm sorry Shimmie (and I just want to say you are an awesome woman of God!!!) but, I think that the Black Church is the problem with the Black Church.  It's not always the enemy (although in some cases it is) but more times than many WE are the problem.
> 
> There is certainly a difference between someone who has fallen & repents, and someone who covers up one deceitful act with another.  Now, although we don't know all of the circumstances with this particular case we (Black Church) have always allowed too much to go on then say it's the enemy when someone calls us out on it.  I've been in church all my life and was taught by my parents early on that it's in God whom I trust not man so I'm so thankful that these types of stories and events have not shaken my faith.  But, by allowing too much to go on we have certainly turned those away that are new babes in Christ, *I hear too often about folks KNOWING the Pastor is sleeping with Sis. Such and Such, that Deacon is an alcoholic, this Sis. sleeps with everyone's husband yet they are allowed to have positions of authority and power.  It's absolutely ridiculous*.
> 
> ...



ITA with everything that you have said especially the bolded point.


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (Jul 16, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> *I think that the Black Church is the problem with the Black Church. It's not always the enemy (although in some cases it is) but more times than many WE are the problem. *


 
This is one of the major reasons I dont attend all black churches. Folks just messy. Right now as I type, there is a rumor going around this town about me that was started by the santified folks at the Holy Tabernacle Church of God In Christ, that I am a drug dealer. The only reason I can think of that would make them say this is because I do not work outside my home, they see me home everyday, my bills are being paid, I aint got no man, nothing being turned off disconnected or evicted. They dont know how I'm making it so they just assume and make it up as they go along.


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## Blackoutzangel05 (Jul 16, 2007)

ladydee36330 said:
			
		

> *This is one of the major reasons I dont attend all black churches. Folks just messy.* Right now as I type, there is a rumor going around this town about me that was started by the santified folks at the Holy Tabernacle Church of God In Christ, that I am a drug dealer. The only reason I can think of that would make them say this is because I do not work outside my home, they see me home everyday, my bills are being paid, I aint got no man, nothing being turned off disconnected or evicted. They dont know how I'm making it so they just assume and make it up as they go along.



I believe that the church itself has been corrupted not just the black church. I know that there are good black churches out there, I have been to a few of them. White churches have their issues as well, hence the whole priests and their molestation charges. Its time that we stop accepting this and make a stand. Until we do that and stop worrying about black and white, we are going to continue to have problems. God seeks unity, not division...


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## GodsPromises (Jul 16, 2007)

All churches have issues because we as human have issues.  That is why we can't rely on man but God for our salvation and again I must say that we can't look at a few people to say that is why we don't go to church.  Prayer will answer all things and God will direct you to the church that he will use you in.  One day when I'm not falling alsleep I will post a testimony on being placed at the church God has oriented and not looking at the problems inside of the church.  It so saddens me to hear saints say that " I don' t go to church because so and so did xyz.  We are not in church to look at or please so and so but to worship and honor God.


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## Monilove122 (Jul 16, 2007)

LadyR said:
			
		

> All churches have issues because we as human have issues. That is why we can't rely on man but God for our salvation and again I must say that we can't look at a few people to say that is why we don't go to church. Prayer will answer all things and God will direct you to the church that he will use you in. One day when I'm not falling alsleep I will post a testimony on being placed at the church God has oriented and not looking at the problems inside of the church. It so saddens me to hear saints say that " I don' t go to church because so and so did xyz. We are not in church to look at or please so and so but to worship and honor God.


 
Although I agree with you, you have to be at a point spiritually to understand the difference.  And I'm sorry to say but the issue is that it's NOT a few, it's TOO MANY.  Yes, all churches, dominations, etc. have issues but, in specific since we are talking about the Black church - *we are messy*.  And I'm a church going, tithe paying, choir member who supports my church as well as others in the area, I'm on committees, give my time and energy to my church even on those days when I don't feel like it and most importantly I'm about UPLIFTING GOD'S KINGDOM.  So again, I feel you and agree but, I so worry about those people who don't know God and those who have not matured enough in their faith to not be moved by what they see.


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## dreamer26 (Jul 17, 2007)

From where I stand, Man is calling Man and not God calling man.

Before God put you out on front street he first make sure you can handle being out there.  He'll test you in private and get you ready for a public minisitry.  I tell people we are God's children and he's not going to put anybody in public that can't obey him in private.

If we stop promoting people because of their status and looks and gender and community service and let God use whom he has chosen and annointed you will see a big difference in ministry.  We keep getting what we're getting because many haven't turned from their wicked ways but they want to operate in their gift.

If we want to see change we (the church) has to turn back to God and stop modeling ourselves after the world.

IF MY PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME WOULD *HUMBLE* THEMSELVES AND *PRAY* AND *SEEK* MY FACE AND *TURN* FROM THEIR *WICKED WAYS*, *THEN* WILL I HEAR FROM HEAVEN AND WILL FORGIVE THEIR SIN AND WILL HEAL THEIR  LAND. 2 Chronicles 7:14

This is the answer to our problem.


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## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> I'm sorry Shimmie (and I just want to say you are an awesome woman of God!!!) but, I think that the Black Church is the problem with the Black Church. It's not always the enemy (although in some cases it is) but more times than many WE are the problem.
> 
> There is certainly a difference between someone who has fallen & repents, and someone who covers up one deceitful act with another. Now, although we don't know all of the circumstances with this particular case we (Black Church) have always allowed too much to go on then say it's the enemy when someone calls us out on it. I've been in church all my life and was taught by my parents early on that it's in God whom I trust not man so I'm so thankful that these types of stories and events have not shaken my faith. But, by allowing too much to go on we have certainly turned those away that are new babes in Christ, I hear too often about folks KNOWING the Pastor is sleeping with Sis. Such and Such, that Deacon is an alcoholic, this Sis. sleeps with everyone's husband yet they are allowed to have positions of authority and power. It's absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> ...


I agree with you wholeheartedly...no apology on your behalf is needed  I know indeed what you are saying.   Just yesterday the Lord had me meditating upon this scripture:

*For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. *

*They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.  2 Timothy 4:3-5 NIV*

Monilove, in regards to my statement about the Black Church, here's where the attack is....and the enemy is using it to the hilt and then some.  satan is using so many things in this life that we as Blacks have lacked for so long, as our very own weapon against ourselves.   

While God is blessing and raising us up, satan is right there using his wiles and schemes which are appealing to our life necessities, our flesh, sadly our egos, as his traps...'i.e.'_ "seeking whom he may devour" ---- "seeking even to deceive the very Elect of God." (pph)._

Monilove, there IS a satanic plot against our race iin particular.   Threre's something about us so powerful and so strong that it poses a serious threat to the enemy and to this world's system.    

Angel, whatever is 'feared' the most, will be under the most attack.  There's a reason, our weaknesses are so prominant and preyed upon.   YES indeed we bear the responsibilites for our choices in this life.  We're not robots and we do have extreme intelligence.   Yet, it's being preyed upon.  For as a race and a people, we are still struggling with a 'Struggle.'    Our dignity, our hope for better, our lives to be unsuppressed.   "We" still need to come out of the old run down neighborhoods; out of addictions, and immoral actitivies and other bondages...and heartaches.   The list of our needs and woes is not unkown to us.   And while we are so close, we are yet so far to be free.  And why?   Because once we as a Black nation have it together, there's no stopping us from crushing the enemy down whrere he truly belongs...under our feet.  

Our men of God are being 'baited' out of their leadership (look at Dr. Martin Luther King), satan used his sexual weaknesses extensively.  When a man gives up his sperm, he becomes 'weak' in the knees...rendering him unable to stand.  If a man cannot stand, hence he will fall.   Hence....Jamaal, and all of the others before him. 

Yes, God calls our men, but satan goes out to destroy them; his whole objective to render the Black church without strong male leaders ... rendering us at a standstill to claim our heritage...as a strong people.  

*Yes, my beautiful sister,* *you are right*,  *we are responsible* for our choices and that will never change.  Yet, there is stil an attack, a war raged against us a Race to tear us apart and down.   We have to be ready to rage back against this enemy and win. 

Am I making some sort of sense with this?  .


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## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

dreamer26 said:
			
		

> *From where I stand, Man is calling Man and not God calling man.*
> 
> Before God put you out on front street he first make sure you can handle being out there. He'll test you in private and get you ready for a public minisitry. I tell people we are God's children and he's not going to put anybody in public that can't obey him in private.
> 
> ...


I agree in too many cases of ministry, "Man is calling Man" and sadder satan is setting up his own churches for his own causes of entrapment.  I truly believe that satan has strategically set up his 'own' for the sole purpose of bringing down the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Where is Samuel with the horn of oil?


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## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> Although I agree with you, you have to be at a point spiritually to understand the difference. And I'm sorry to say but the issue is that it's NOT a few, it's TOO MANY. Yes, all churches, dominations, etc. have issues but, in specific since we are talking about the Black church - *we are messy*. And I'm a church going, tithe paying, choir member who supports my church as well as others in the area, I'm on committees, give my time and energy to my church even on those days when I don't feel like it and most importantly I'm about UPLIFTING GOD'S KINGDOM. So again, I feel you and agree but, I so worry about those people who don't know God and those who have not matured enough in their faith to not be moved by what they see.


 
Yes we *ARE* messy and it is a Big Mess.  A mess that many carry a stench with it.  There is no sweet fragrance of incense 'as unto the Lord...."

And here's why:   We've compromise ourselves.  We've sold out to the world.  Literally, we have sold our souls out in compromise.  We're using substitutes for God; "Cain's Offerings"; Plastic Prayers.....  Paper Hearts.  Hearts once set on fire for God are now literally ash...blown by every wind and doctrine.  

Yes, we are indeed *'messy.'*


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## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

ladydee36330 said:
			
		

> This is one of the major reasons I dont attend all black churches. Folks just messy. Right now as I type, there is a rumor going around this town about me that was started by the santified folks at the Holy Tabernacle Church of God In Christ, that I am a drug dealer. The only reason I can think of that would make them say this is because I do not work outside my home, they see me home everyday, my bills are being paid, I aint got no man, nothing being turned off disconnected or evicted. They dont know how I'm making it so they just assume and make it up as they go along.


 
I just read this and I am so sorry that this happen to you.  Yet, this word comes to mind for you from the heart of our Father in Heaven...

"I find no fault in you..."


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## Monilove122 (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> I agree with you wholeheartedly...no apology on your behalf is needed  I know indeed what you are saying. Just yesterday the Lord had me meditating upon this scripture:
> 
> *For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. *
> 
> ...


 
Yes, you are making perfect sense and I do agree with all that you have said.  My only issue is this, I think that sometimes we (in this case church in general) make others believe that all that is wrong is the work of satan and that is not true.  I believe it was TD Jakes who preached a sermon titled something like "It ain't always the devil's fault" and he got into this very issue.  We blame satan for all the wrongs to take away OUR part in the mess.  Now, I'm not saying at all that satan does not attack the body of Christ as a whole cause we KNOW he is busy, I've seen it as of late within my own church - and I hear what you are saying in regards to us having temptations these days that may weaken some but the problem lies in the fact that it's happening TOO OFTEN.  So, who is really for the things they are preaching about?  Who is really grounded in God and not easily swayed by their flesh.  I'm not comparing myself to anyone else and I know there is temptation they are faced with I couldn't even begin to understand but heck, I can say no to things and I ain't nobody's pastor, why can't they.  

This is not at all to take away from all of the Pastors who have God's agenda in their heart and not their own because there are MANY of them but, again, I was just speaking in regards to those hearing these types of stories who are not yet ready to differentiate between these stories and their walk with God.   I have family members, friends, etc. who tell me things like if I'm going to have a pastor that's a pimp I might as well stay out in the street.  Not realizing that for every Jamal Bryant (or someone like him) there are 50 AWESOME Pastors who are concerned about their souls.  

I think what would make the difference is to see more people "sat down" (LOL) or disciplined in some way for their actions. I mean if the bible says "thou shalt not commit adultery" and one of the married ministers is sleeping with a few ladies from the church why is he still presiding every Sunday or in charge of Sunday School, etc.  That's where I have the issue, yes you forgive them, you pray for them/with them, don't condemn or treat them different BUT don't stand up in church telling folks how to live if you are so far from living right it doesn't even make sense.


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 17, 2007)

dreamer26 said:
			
		

> From where I stand, Man is calling Man and not God calling man.
> 
> Before God put you out on front street he first make sure you can handle being out there. He'll test you in private and get you ready for a public minisitry. I tell people we are God's children and he's not going to put anybody in public that can't obey him in private.
> 
> ...


 
WOW! One of my favorite scriptures.  I love this.  ITA with your whole post!


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## Monilove122 (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Yes we *ARE* messy and it is a Big Mess. A mess that many carry a stench with it. There is no sweet fragrance of incense 'as unto the Lord...."
> 
> And here's why: We've compromise ourselves. We've sold out to the world. Literally, we have sold our souls out in compromise. We're using substitutes for God; "Cain's Offerings"; Plastic Prayers..... Paper Hearts. Hearts once set on fire for God are now literally ash...blown by every wind and doctrine.
> 
> Yes, we are indeed *'messy.'*


 
Shimmie, you are so right!!! We have sold out and where there used to be a clear line between church and the world it's not there anymore.  The things I see people wear, the way they act, I really saw a guy doing the cabbage patch and walking it out when he was shouting the other Sunday when we visited another church and I'm like WITW??!!!!  LOL


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 17, 2007)

Moni I totally agree with your posts!  There is no "consequence" for actions that are not Christlike.  This is a societal (not a word) problem that leaks its way in the church.  We are supposed to be a different people and out actions should reflect as such.

Matthew 5:
  13"You are the salt of the earth; but (Q)if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. 

   14"You are (R)the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 

   15(S)nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 

*16"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may (T)see your good works, and (U)glorify your Father who is in heaven. *

   17"Do not think that I came to abolish the (V)Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 

   18"For truly I say to you, (W)until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 

   19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least (X)in the kingdom of heaven; *but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. *


Luke 17

   1He said to His disciples, "(A)It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come! 

   2"(B)*It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble*. 

   3*"Be on your guard! (C)If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. *

*4"And if he sins against you (D)seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him." *

ETA:  We definitely need to pray and forgive, but the line is where we need to be careful not to condone the sin.  The sin is the problem.


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## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> Yes, you are making perfect sense and I do agree with all that you have said. My only issue is this, I think that sometimes we (in this case church in general) make others believe that all that is wrong is the work of satan and that is not true. I believe it was TD Jakes who preached a sermon titled something like "It ain't always the devil's fault" and he got into this very issue. We blame satan for all the wrongs to take away OUR part in the mess. Now, I'm not saying at all that satan does not attack the body of Christ as a whole cause we KNOW he is busy, I've seen it as of late within my own church - and I hear what you are saying in regards to us having temptations these days that may weaken some but the problem lies in the fact that it's happening TOO OFTEN. So, who is really for the things they are preaching about? Who is really grounded in God and not easily swayed by their flesh. I'm not comparing myself to anyone else and I know there is temptation they are faced with I couldn't even begin to understand but heck, I can say no to things and I ain't nobody's pastor, why can't they.
> 
> This is not at all to take away from all of the Pastors who have God's agenda in their heart and not their own because there are MANY of them but, again, I was just speaking in regards to those hearing these types of stories who are not yet ready to differentiate between these stories and their walk with God. I have family members, friends, etc. who tell me things like if I'm going to have a pastor that's a pimp I might as well stay out in the street. Not realizing that for every Jamal Bryant (or someone like him) there are 50 AWESOME Pastors who are concerned about their souls.
> 
> I think what would make the difference is to see more people "sat down" (LOL) or disciplined in some way for their actions. I mean if the bible says "thou shalt not commit adultery" and one of the married ministers is sleeping with a few ladies from the church why is he still presiding every Sunday or in charge of Sunday School, etc. That's where I have the issue, yes you forgive them, you pray for them/with them, don't condemn or treat them different BUT don't stand up in church telling folks how to live if you are so far from living right it doesn't even make sense.


Amen Monilove... Amen.   Just because satan has the influence, doesn't mean he has the power.   It's still up to us to yield or not to yield.  Even God has our back in all of this.   

"For 'He' (God) our Father in Heaven and in Earth...

Leads us not into temptation; 
He delivers us from ALL evil; 
He leadeth us into the paths of Righteousness for His namesake (He has put His name on the line for us); 
His word is a light unto our path and a lamp unto our feet; 
Our ears shall hear His word behind it saying, "This is the way, walk ye in it."
We are His sheep, therefore we know His voice and that of a stranger, we will not follow. 

And Monilove, has He not, prepared a way of escape for each of us...?  Indeed He has.   We do not have to follow satan's path of destruction.  

*Indeed you are right.*  Afterall, each of us here have made a choice on who not to follow....   It's the choice of weakness which has come into the Church compromising with the wrong influence. 

((( hugs )))


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## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

crlsweetie912 said:
			
		

> Moni I totally agree with your posts! There is no "consequence" for actions that are not Christlike. This is a societal (not a word) problem that leaks its way in the church. We are supposed to be a different people and out actions should reflect as such.
> 
> Matthew 5:
> 13"You are the salt of the earth; but (Q)if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
> ...


 
Excellent Post... .

It makes me sad, that I live so close to this area.  Of course it's sad to happen anywhere.  But he's the Pastor who purchased the former Church building that I used to worship in.... 

It's almost like that same spirit that attached itsself to my former Pastor who taught in this same building has attached itsself to Bryant.  So much tragedy occurred in that building; divorces; deaths; spiritual tragedies.   

It was only by God's grace and mercy that I and many others were protected from it all...

Too close to home...too close...


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Excellent Post... .
> 
> It makes me sad, that I live so close to this area. Of course it's sad to happen anywhere. But he's the Pastor who purchased the former Church building that I used to worship in....
> 
> ...


 
I know Shimmie:
This is Very close to me as well.  It almost hurts to hear others talking about it.  Especially since I know people who are/have been touched by this.  As well as the numerous people who are saying "see I told you" about pastors.  Thinking that this is the norm and the this is why I don't go to church comments.

But, what's done in the dark ALWAYS comes to light.  The thing that I pray for the most is the people in this congregation who are struggling with their relationship with Christ.  They need Him now more than ever.


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## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> Shimmie, you are so right!!! We have sold out and where there used to be a clear line between church and the world it's not there anymore. The things I see people wear, the way they act, I really saw a guy doing the cabbage patch and walking it out when he was shouting the other Sunday when we visited another church and I'm like *WITW??!!!!* LOL


Monilove, I 'love'  your 'WITW"...a WELCOME change to WT___    I've often wanted to us WOE ("what on earth") but it still says Woe.... like someone is in woe or despair.


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Monilove, I 'love'  your 'WITW"...a WELCOME change to WT___  I've often wanted to us WOE ("what on earth") but it still says Woe.... like someone is in woe or despair.


 
WITW=What in the World?


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## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Here is your false prophet:

False prophet is a label given to a person who is viewed as illegitimately claiming charismatic authority within a religious group.

Shim, I've always believed a false prophet to be an alleged 'man of God' who doesn't practice what he preaches.


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## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

crlsweetie912 said:
			
		

> WITW=What in the World?


I love that new acronym (WITW).  (Ummm, new to me that is... )


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## Monilove122 (Jul 17, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> Here is your false prophet:
> 
> False prophet is a label given to a person who is viewed as illegitimately claiming charismatic authority within a religious group.
> 
> Shim, I've always believed a false prophet to be an alleged 'man of God' who doesn't practice what he preaches.


 
Blossom, I agree.  It's like they are doing one thing which most times is the COMPLETE opposite of what they are preaching which in turn is the COMPLETE opposite of the word of God.


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## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> Here is your false prophet:
> 
> False prophet is a label given to a person who is viewed as illegitimately claiming charismatic authority within a religious group.
> 
> Shim, I've always believed a false prophet to be an alleged 'man of God' who doesn't practice what he preaches.


I 'hear' you.


----------



## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> Blossom, I agree. It's like they are doing one thing which most times is the COMPLETELY opposite of what they are preaching which in turn is the COMPLETE opposite of the word of God.


You can't fake MTG or Jesus....


----------



## Monilove122 (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> I love that new acronym (WITW). (Ummm, new to me that is... )


 
LOL, you are too funny.  I don't think it's that new but I use it probably too much.  I actually found myself talking to a friend on the phone and said 'Girl, WITW'.  Yes, I said the letters like I was on the danggone internet    .  The other one I use is WTH = What The Heck.


----------



## Monilove122 (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> You can't fake MTG or Jesus....


 
Amen to that!!!!


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> You can't fake MTG or Jesus....



Heehee!  NOPE!

Aren't you glad about it?  That's why I stopped both!  LOL!


----------



## FRO-EVER 21 (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> I'm sorry Shimmie (and I just want to say you are an awesome woman of God!!!) but, I think that the Black Church is the problem with the Black Church.  It's not always the enemy (although in some cases it is) but more times than many WE are the problem.
> 
> There is certainly a difference between someone who has fallen & repents, and someone who covers up one deceitful act with another.  Now, although we don't know all of the circumstances with this particular case we (Black Church) have always allowed too much to go on then say it's the enemy when someone calls us out on it.  I've been in church all my life and was taught by my parents early on that it's in God whom I trust not man so I'm so thankful that these types of stories and events have not shaken my faith.  But, by allowing too much to go on we have certainly turned those away that are new babes in Christ, I hear too often about folks KNOWING the Pastor is sleeping with Sis. Such and Such, that Deacon is an alcoholic, this Sis. sleeps with everyone's husband yet they are allowed to have positions of authority and power.  It's absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> ...




You haven't spoke anything but the truth. I agree 100%.


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

PREACH, MONI!

I just read her first post on the matter.

I couldn't agree more.

And why is the "devil so busy" in the Black church?  And what about churches that are truly sending out the gospel and living it as well?

It's unfair to them.

The Jamaals of the world cannot live a Christ-like life because they have not been saved, much less called to lead others to Christ.

I will continue to say that either these "falsifiers" don't believe in God or they believe the Bible is a falsehood.

It's either one or the other and for their sake, they better hope the Bible is a lie.


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Blackoutzangel05 said:
			
		

> I believe that the church itself has been corrupted not just the black church. I know that there are good black churches out there, I have been to a few of them. White churches have their issues as well, hence the whole priests and their molestation charges. Its time that we stop accepting this and make a stand. Until we do that and stop worrying about black and white, we are going to continue to have problems. God seeks unity, not division...



Exactly... I didn't really want to say anything, but I'm sick of this black vs. white as if whites don't have issues in the Protestant community.

Have you all forgotten Swaggert and Bakker?

WHITE PEOPLE!


----------



## dreamer26 (Jul 17, 2007)

A false prophet is someone that tries to convience you that what the word of God says is not true or someone that speaks something other than what God is speaking.

If Jamal is reaching truth is not a false prophet he is a hypocrit.

The word is the word is the word, no matter who's speaking it.

But what make his witness bad is that he's not living what he's preaching (if things are true).  HYPOCRIT.

See if the word says sleeping with someone without being married is a sin, but I try to convince you that it's not really a sin it's a minor infraction, I am a false prophet, I want you to believe something that's outside of the word of God.

But if I tell you I know the word says you're not suppose to sleep with a man without being married but I'm doing it.  I'm a hypocrit.


I hope that made sense.


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

The difference is he is in the pulpit preaching to people about what they need to be doing and he's out doing contrary.

If he wasn't in the pulpit and going out in Jesus' name as a man of God, he would be just a hypocrite.

I believe the 'man of God' should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, since we aren't upon some throne talking down at others under the sound our voice.


----------



## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> LOL, you are too funny. I don't think it's that new but I use it probably too much. I actually found myself talking to a friend on the phone and said 'Girl, WITW'. Yes, I said the letters like I was on the danggone internet    . The other one I use is WTH = What The Heck.


Growing up, our parents 'spelled' the 'bad' words lol.  Or the famous, "What on Earth?" or "What in the World?".   My mom's favorite was "Oh for Goodness Sakes".   

I can just hear you spelling 'W-I-T-W"....  And you know you're being labeled Church Lady...because of it.   But that's alright.  You're among the 'good' ones...not messy....


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> I'm sorry Shimmie (and I just want to say you are an awesome woman of God!!!) but, I think that the Black Church is the problem with the Black Church.  It's not always the enemy (although in some cases it is) but more times than many WE are the problem.
> 
> There is certainly a difference between someone who has fallen & repents, and someone who covers up one deceitful act with another.  Now, although we don't know all of the circumstances with this particular case we (Black Church) have always allowed too much to go on then say it's the enemy when someone calls us out on it.  I've been in church all my life and was taught by my parents early on that it's in God whom I trust not man so I'm so thankful that these types of stories and events have not shaken my faith.  But, by allowing too much to go on we have certainly turned those away that are new babes in Christ, I hear too often about folks KNOWING the Pastor is sleeping with Sis. Such and Such, that Deacon is an alcoholic, this Sis. sleeps with everyone's husband yet they are allowed to have positions of authority and power.  It's absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> ...


AMEN sista!


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> Although I agree with you, you have to be at a point spiritually to understand the difference.  And I'm sorry to say but the issue is that it's NOT a few, it's TOO MANY.  Yes, all churches, dominations, etc. have issues but, in specific since we are talking about the Black church - *we are messy*.  And I'm a church going, tithe paying, choir member who supports my church as well as others in the area, I'm on committees, give my time and energy to my church even on those days when I don't feel like it and most importantly I'm about UPLIFTING GOD'S KINGDOM.  So again, I feel you and agree but, I so worry about those people who don't know God and those who have not matured enough in their faith to not be moved by what they see.



Exactly.  If you have a sinner seeking out God/Christ and he comes to the church looking for guidance and direction and the first thing that smacks him in the face is a "Jamaal Bryant", how do you think that is going to affect him?

He's going to go back home and turn on a soap because it seems he didn't need to leave home if that's all that is going on in the church.

People who are new to the faith or weak in the faith are destroyed by these people.  And what does the Bible say about causing one of them to fall?

Again, the "Jamaals" of the world better hope the Bible is a complete fabrication, because if it's not, I wouldn't want to be THEM!


----------



## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> The difference is he is in the pulpit preaching to people about what they need to be doing and he's out doing contrary.
> 
> If he wasn't in the pulpit and going out in Jesus' name as a man of God, he would be just a hypocrite.
> 
> *I believe the 'man of God' should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, since we aren't upon some throne talking down at others under the sound our voice*.


Exactly Blosssom...

And angel, what hurts even more, is that it hurts one so precious as you in regaining your faith.  I mean this as a compliment to you.  You've seen enough mess in the name of the Lord...when does someone give you a descent break and see the realness of God in leadership?

Blosssom, the Real ones are truly here and out there, though.  And your heart is set for that one who truly is real and that's Jesus, Himself who loves you as His very own.  Afterall, you bring a sweet fragrance to His garden, why else would you be named, 'Blosssom'....


----------



## Whisper (Jul 17, 2007)

crlsweetie912 said:
			
		

> I know Shimmie:
> This is Very close to me as well.  It almost hurts to hear others talking about it.  Especially since I know people who are/have been touched by this.  *As well as the numerous people who are saying "see I told you" about pastors.  Thinking that this is the norm and the this is why I don't go to church comments.*
> But, what's done in the dark ALWAYS comes to light.  The thing that *I pray for the most is the people in this congregation who are struggling with their relationship with Christ.  They need Him now more than ever.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> I definitely feel what you are saying here.   I know someone who goes to that church and they were so discouraged after that had happened!  They didn't even want to attend that church any more.


----------



## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

crlsweetie912 said:
			
		

> I know Shimmie:
> This is Very close to me as well. It almost hurts to hear others talking about it. Especially since I know people who are/have been touched by this. As well as the numerous people who are saying "see I told you" about pastors. Thinking that this is the norm and the this is why I don't go to church comments.
> 
> But, what's done in the dark ALWAYS comes to light. The thing that I pray for the most is the people in this congregation who are struggling with their relationship with Christ. They need Him now more than ever.


Here in our area he's on TV each Sunday morning at 6:30 a.m.  Crlsweetie, I just feel so grieved.  AND there are several billboards around the 'city' of Baltimore with a picture of him and his wife advertising their church services.   He's also been a regular on TBN as host and guest. 

All I can do is just pray....this is just so sad.   
__________

Hey, on a happy note... hug those beautiful babies of yours for me.  AND a here's a great big hug for you too, angel.  ((( hugs )))


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Exactly Blosssom...
> 
> And angel, what hurts even more, is that it hurts one so precious as you in regaining your faith.  I mean this as a compliment to you.  You've seen enough mess in the name of the Lord...when does someone give you a descent break and see the realness of God in leadership?
> 
> Blosssom, the Real ones are truly here and out there, though.  And your heart is set for that one who truly is real and that's Jesus, Himself who loves you as His very own.  Afterall, you bring a sweet fragrance to His garden, why else would you be named, 'Blosssom'....



LOL!  My name is Marrie!  LOL!

Anyway, I hear what you're saying, chicka.

There are real ministers of God out there, but you are going to be hard-pressed to find one.

And just as the poster after you said (Indigo), someone goes to the church that Jamaal allegedly was placed at, and now their spirit is broken and they don't wish to go back.

I have a friend who attended churches regularly but OF COURSE a scandal broke out involving the preacher stealing, and she tried to find another true church and finally gave up.

She prays and reads the Scriptures with her family now.

Anyway, Christians should not despair.  God is not dead and your faith is not dead.  Just put these people out of the church and pray and ask God to send his truly anointed.


----------



## jwhitley6 (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> Blossom, I agree. It's like they are doing one thing which most times is the COMPLETE opposite of what they are preaching which in turn is the COMPLETE opposite of the word of God.


 
I believe that one should practice what he preaches...however, the fact that he is a hypocrite does not necessarily make the message null and void. 

I know the Word, but I don't always practice it.  I'm not perfect.  I "fall" into sin, but I try not to "walk" in sin.  I understand that even men of God make mistakes.  I take issue with those who perpetually and willingly make the same mistakes (ie. walking in sin).


----------



## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Indigo said:
			
		

> crlsweetie912 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

jwhitley6 said:
			
		

> I believe that one should practice what he preaches...however, the fact that he is a hypocrite *does not necessarily make the message null and void. *
> 
> I know the Word, but I don't always practice it. I'm not perfect. I "fall" into sin, but I try not to "walk" in sin. I understand that even men of God make mistakes. I take issue with those who perpetually and willingly make the same mistakes (ie. walking in sin).


"Excellent" and we all agree....  The Word of God will stand forever and ever...Amen.   (Psalm 119) "Thy word O' God is forever settled in Heaven."

God's word is settled.  No matter what man has/has not done.  The word of God still goes forth and prospers wherever it is sent.  

Ooooooooo Lord Jesus!


----------



## Shimmie (Jul 17, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> LOL! My name is Marrie! LOL!
> 
> Anyway, I hear what you're saying, chicka.
> 
> ...


Even the name "Marrie" has special meaning.... .

You're speaking the truth here Blosssom...(the bolded).


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

jwhitley6 said:
			
		

> I believe that one should practice what he preaches...however, the fact that he is a hypocrite does not necessarily make the message null and void.
> 
> I know the Word, but I don't always practice it.  I'm not perfect.  I "fall" into sin, but I try not to "walk" in sin.  I understand that even men of God make mistakes.  I take issue with those who perpetually and willingly make the same mistakes (ie. walking in sin).



It's not about being perfect, but about obedience.

I don't believe men mistakenly insert their members into a woman not his wife.

I don't believe you can mistakenly steal money from the church coffers.

These are DECISIONS.


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> "Excellent" and we all agree....  The Word of God will stand forever and ever...Amen.   (Psalm 119) "Thy word O' God is forever settled in Heaven."
> 
> God's word is settled.  No matter what man has/has not done.  The word of God still goes forth and prospers wherever it is sent.
> 
> *Ooooooooo Lord Jesus!*



My mother also agrees with Whitley's bolded.  God's word does not go out in vain, even if Satan is putting it out there 

You so funny, Shimmie


----------



## cocoberry10 (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> I'm sorry Shimmie (and I just want to say you are an awesome woman of God!!!) but, I think that the Black Church is the problem with the Black Church.  It's not always the enemy (although in some cases it is) but more times than many WE are the problem.
> 
> There is certainly a difference between someone who has fallen & repents, and someone who covers up one deceitful act with another.  Now, although we don't know all of the circumstances with this particular case we (Black Church) have always allowed too much to go on then say it's the enemy when someone calls us out on it.  I've been in church all my life and was taught by my parents early on that it's in God whom I trust not man so I'm so thankful that these types of stories and events have not shaken my faith.  But, by allowing too much to go on we have certainly turned those away that are new babes in Christ, I hear too often about folks KNOWING the Pastor is sleeping with Sis. Such and Such, that Deacon is an alcoholic, this Sis. sleeps with everyone's husband yet they are allowed to have positions of authority and power.  It's absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> ...



Oooooooooh, you betta preach.


----------



## cocoberry10 (Jul 17, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> It's not about being perfect, but about obedience.
> 
> I don't believe men mistakenly insert their members into a woman not his wife.
> 
> ...



I agree with this Blossssom.  And I donâ€™t think that we have to condemn someone to make them accountable for their actions.  These are the same preachers that hold us church folks â€œaccountableâ€ for not tithing, not having faith in God, not praying enough, living in sin, fornication, homosexuality, etc.  They hold us Godâ€™s lambs accountable during their sermons, so they too must be held accountable.  And if you truly have faith and believe in God, you know that He is the ultimate restorer of all things.  So, no matter what you do, no matter how you are â€œbrought downâ€ â€œshown out,â€ etc.  IF YOU TRULY TRUST GOD, you know that YOU CAN OVERCOME ALL THINGS BECAUSE OF THE LORD (NOT IN SPITE OF HIM).

And thatâ€™s what is missing from todayâ€™s ministers.  Theyâ€™ve become â€œcelebritiesâ€ and â€œpimpstersâ€ instead of preachers.  They are â€œfamousâ€ b/c they are on television, and their â€œimageâ€ becomes more important to them than the truth.  Honestly, I would be satisfied with a pastor that just said â€œsorry, Iâ€™m human.â€  But far too few of them on Bryantâ€™s level will do this.  No, they hire lawyers to help them â€œwin their cases,â€ and â€œcover their tracks.â€  *Matthew 5:25 says â€œWhen you are on the way to court with your adversary, settle your differences quickly. Otherwise, your accuser may hand you over to the judge, who will hand you over to an officer, and you will be thrown into prison. 26 And if that happens, you surely wonâ€™t be free again until you have paid the last pennyâ€  *

*Matthew 5:11 says â€œGod blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers. 12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted in the same way.â€*

And we as the body of Christ have the responsibility to lovingly uphold our ministers to a higher standard.  Not because they will not fall, for they are human, but because we know (and God knows) they can do better.  When a minister falls, he needs to step down and allow God to work on him until he can come back.  Maybe God will show him that he can no longer minister in the way he once did, or maybe when heâ€™s strong enough, he can.  Only God can make this decision.  But too many of these preachers become â€œpulpit pimpsâ€ because they cannot humble themselves in the sight of the Lord.  According to these court records, this is not the first person Bryant has impregnated or had an affair with.  And this speaks volumes to me, not b/c I expect any pastor to be perfect.  Only GOD IS PERFECT.  But it speaks to me, b/c I know in my walk and probably in everyoneâ€™s walks, we make mistakes and God gives us a chance to â€œshape up or ship out.â€  I believe God spoke to Bryant (and other preachers) about their wrongdoing.  And Godâ€™s way of communicating is different from ours.  Thatâ€™s b/c itâ€™s all about love, not accusation (like Satan). But God cannot continue to prosper us (not financially but in all areas) if we cannot become higher and more like Him.  It just goes against all we know about Him.  And this is where God has to bring us to our knees.  Because God canâ€™t be mocked, and allowing the Bryantâ€™s of the world to continue preaching Godâ€™s message while living this way, is mocking God and itâ€™s false prophetism (even if the message is biblical).  Because you are deceiving innocent people.  And this is why these scandals continue to happen.  I believe God is doing some HEAVENLY HOUSECLEANING.  I donâ€™t think this is just Satan, although we know heâ€™s always out to kill, steal, and destroy.  But God also has to make some sweeps in His house, because dust and dirt will destroy.  Again, maybe Bryant needs to go through Godâ€™s dishwasher and be made anew.  But stories like this will not stop until the world ends, b/c God just canâ€™t have it any other way.



			
				Shimmie said:
			
		

> "Excellent" and we all agree.... *The Word of God will stand forever and ever...Amen.   (Psalm 119) "Thy word O' God is forever settled in Heaven."
> *God's word is settled.  No matter what man has/has not done.  The word of God still goes forth and prospers wherever it is sent.
> 
> Ooooooooo Lord Jesus!



Yes it will!


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Amen!  Thread closed, Coco!

Nothing more needs to be preached here today!

Go'on, girl!

Every word of that is the truth!


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Yes we *ARE* messy and it is a Big Mess.  A mess that many carry a stench with it.  There is no sweet fragrance of incense 'as unto the Lord...."
> 
> And here's why:   We've compromise ourselves.  We've sold out to the world.  Literally, we have sold our souls out in compromise.  We're using substitutes for God; "Cain's Offerings"; Plastic Prayers.....  Paper Hearts.  Hearts once set on fire for God are now literally ash...blown by every wind and doctrine.
> 
> Yes, we are indeed *'messy.'*



Miracle spring water... yea, this one guy was selling it on Sunday after The Jamaal Show went off.


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

crlsweetie912 said:
			
		

> I know Shimmie:
> This is Very close to me as well.  It almost hurts to hear others talking about it.  Especially since I know people who are/have been touched by this.  As well as the numerous people who are saying "see I told you" about pastors.  Thinking that this is the norm and the this is why I don't go to church comments.
> 
> But, what's done in the dark ALWAYS comes to light.  *The thing that I pray for the most is the people in this congregation who are struggling with their relationship with Christ. * They need Him now more than ever.



These people are weak in the faith and they need to ask God to strengthen them.

Don't let a mere mortal lead you to hell.


----------



## klb120475 (Jul 17, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Indigo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Monilove122 (Jul 17, 2007)

jwhitley6 said:
			
		

> I believe that one should practice what he preaches...however, the fact that he is a hypocrite does not necessarily make the message null and void.
> 
> *I know the Word, but I don't always practice it. I'm not perfect. I "fall" into sin, but I try not to "walk" in sin. I understand that even men of God make mistakes. I take issue with those who perpetually and willingly make the same mistakes (ie. walking in sin).*


 
I couldn't agree with you more.  I also take issue with those who continually do things over, and over, and over again yet they talk something else.   I *KNOW* I don't always do what I'm supposed to do but I repent and with God do my best to not go there again.  And when I repent if I do attempt to do what it was in which I asked forgiveness I'm telling y'all I am so convicted.  

I'm one of those shoot straight from the hip type people, if you don't want to know what I REALLY think than PLEASE don't ask, LOL.  Well, I had to learn the lesson of using tact (this is when I was like 19 y'all) after unintentionally hurting someone's feelings.  I asked God to help me with it and after that whenever someone would ask my opinion (which funny enough people do often cause they know it will be honest on my part), I had to stop and think about what I said because God would convict me to consider the feelings of others.  I would feel SO bad if I just shot off at the mouth that it really became 2nd nature to be more thoughtful in my responses.

I say all that to say that like you when I see people "walking in sin" it bothers me especially when those people say they have been appointed by God to be a leader in the Body of Christ.  There seems to be no direct connection with God to convict them in their ungodly actions.  No, you should not look to man because no one is perfect but they should be positive representatives of God.  You know everywhere I go, I'm gonna let it shine...


----------



## Monilove122 (Jul 17, 2007)

cocoberry10 said:
			
		

> *And thatâ€™s what is missing from todayâ€™s ministers. Theyâ€™ve become â€œcelebritiesâ€ and â€œpimpstersâ€ instead of preachers. They are â€œfamousâ€ b/c they are on television, and their â€œimageâ€ becomes more important to them than the truth. Honestly, I would be satisfied with a pastor that just said â€œsorry, Iâ€™m human.â€ But far too few of them on Bryantâ€™s level will do this. No, they hire lawyers to help them â€œwin their cases,â€ and â€œcover their tracks.â€ Matthew 5:25 says â€œWhen you are on the way to court with your adversary, settle your differences quickly. Otherwise, your accuser may hand you over to the judge, who will hand you over to an officer, and you will be thrown into prison. 26 And if that happens, you surely wonâ€™t be free again until you have paid the last pennyâ€ *
> 
> *Matthew 5:11 says â€œGod blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers. 12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted in the same way.â€*
> 
> *And we as the body of Christ have the responsibility to lovingly uphold our ministers to a higher standard. Not because they will not fall, for they are human, but because we know (and God knows) they can do better. When a minister falls, he needs to step down and allow God to work on him until he can come back. Maybe God will show him that he can no longer minister in the way he once did, or maybe when heâ€™s strong enough, he can. Only God can make this decision. But too many of these preachers become â€œpulpit pimpsâ€ because they cannot humble themselves in the sight of the Lord. According to these court records, this is not the first person Bryant has impregnated or had an affair with. And this speaks volumes to me, not b/c I expect any pastor to be perfect. Only GOD IS PERFECT. But it speaks to me, b/c I know in my walk and probably in everyoneâ€™s walks, we make mistakes and God gives us a chance to â€œshape up or ship out.â€ I believe God spoke to Bryant (and other preachers) about their wrongdoing. And Godâ€™s way of communicating is different from ours. Thatâ€™s b/c itâ€™s all about love, not accusation (like Satan). But God cannot continue to prosper us (not financially but in all areas) if we cannot become higher and more like Him. It just goes against all we know about Him. And this is where God has to bring us to our knees. Because God canâ€™t be mocked, and allowing the Bryantâ€™s of the world to continue preaching Godâ€™s message while living this way, is mocking God and itâ€™s false prophetism (even if the message is biblical). Because you are deceiving innocent people. And this is why these scandals continue to happen. I believe God is doing some HEAVENLY HOUSECLEANING. I donâ€™t think this is just Satan, although we know heâ€™s always out to kill, steal, and destroy. But God also has to make some sweeps in His house, because dust and dirt will destroy. Again, maybe Bryant needs to go through Godâ€™s dishwasher and be made anew. But stories like this will not stop until the world ends, b/c God just canâ€™t have it any other way.*


 
Girl, you BETTA PREACH UP IN HERE, UP IN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Yea, Coco dropped it, huh?


----------



## jwhitley6 (Jul 17, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> It's not about being perfect, but about obedience.
> 
> I don't believe men mistakenly insert their members into a woman not his wife.
> 
> ...


 
I hear what you're saying.  Everything we do is a decision (except true reflexes).  I do believe that your judgment can be temporarily clouded...note the word "temporarily".  You should snap out of it at some point and realize the error of your ways...You should feel convicted when you're wrong.  Some folks put a lot of energy into justifying their mistakes and not taking responsibility...the mind is powerful thing and you can convince yourself that what you're doing is okay...and end up with a "reprobate mind".


----------



## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

jwhitley6 said:
			
		

> I hear what you're saying.  Everything we do is a decision (except true reflexes).  *I do believe that your judgment can be temporarily clouded...note the word "temporarily*".  You should snap out of it at some point and realize the error of your ways...You should feel convicted when you're wrong.  Some folks put a lot of energy into justifying their mistakes and not taking responsibility...the mind is powerful thing and you can convince yourself that what you're doing is okay...and end up with a "reprobate mind".



He needs to keep his mind on Jesus!


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## jwhitley6 (Jul 17, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> He needs to keep his mind on Jesus!


 
LOL...we all do!


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## Monilove122 (Jul 17, 2007)

jwhitley6 said:
			
		

> I hear what you're saying. Everything we do is a decision (except true reflexes). I do believe that your judgment can be temporarily clouded...note the word "temporarily". You should snap out of it at some point and realize the error of your ways...You should feel convicted when you're wrong. Some folks put a lot of energy into justifying their mistakes and not taking responsibility...the mind is powerful thing and you can convince yourself that what you're doing is okay...and end up with a "reprobate mind".


 
Well said, you are SO RIGHT!!!!


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## Monilove122 (Jul 17, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> Yea, Coco dropped it, huh?


 
Yes girl, she dropped THE PLOW as they say here in the south, LOL.

But what she said was AWESOME!!!!!!


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## PaperClip (Jul 17, 2007)

I've browsed through this thread and lots of good, real, talk going on....

One part that kinda raises an eyebrow for me is this idea of pastors being held to a "higher" standard than the layfolk.... As defenders of the faith, sure these pastors are to do that: defend the word in their preaching and lifestyle. 

All Bible-believing, Jesus Christ professing Christians are supposed to defend the faith as well. 

I think the ONLY DISTINCTION between the laymembers and the clergy is the PUBLICITY in which the clergy's lifestyle (and ergo, their mistakes) gets.... 

Does that make sense at all? What might I not be considering here....


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## Southernbella. (Jul 17, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I've browsed through this thread and lots of good, real, talk going on....
> 
> One part that kinda raises an eyebrow for me is this idea of pastors being held to a "higher" standard than the layfolk.... As defenders of the faith, sure these pastors are to do that: defend the word in their preaching and lifestyle.
> 
> ...


 
I can understand your stance, but it's not Biblical. The Bible clearly states that there are certain requirements and standards for leaders in the church.

*1 Timothy 3*

*Qualifications of Overseers*

_1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,[b] but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. _
*Qualifications of Deacons*


_8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus._

In the same vein, believers are held to a higher standard than non-believers.

It may not seem fair, but it is what it is.


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## PaperClip (Jul 17, 2007)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> I can understand your stance, but it's not Biblical. The Bible clearly states that there are certain requirements and standards for leaders in the church.
> 
> *1 Timothy 3*
> 
> ...


 
I understand those qualifications for SERVICE, to be eligible for those specific roles. In a sense, Pastor Bryant has not operated out of those qualifications stated above, what it has been said to have done (adultery, fornication, etc.) applies to ALL BELIEVERS, yes?

Using your point about believers and non believers, it's almost the same thing: either there is a standard or there is not. There are not degrees or levels within the standard. Either one is a believer or not. Either one is an adulterer or not. Either one is a fornicator or not. There is no in-between. A laymember gets the same judgement for fornication as a clergymember, yes?

I think this scripture answers my question, either if it is pertaining specifically to the teaching ministry or if this scripture also includes all members of the clergy, e.g., pastors, etc.?

James 3:1-2 (NIV)
1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.

(Amplified)
1NOT MANY [of you] should become teachers ([a]self-constituted censors and reprovers of others), my brethren, for you know that we [teachers] will be judged by a higher standard and with greater severity [than other people; thus we assume the greater accountability and the more condemnation]. 
2For we all often stumble and fall and offend in many things. And if anyone does not offend in speech [never says the wrong things], he is a fully developed character and a perfect man, able to control his whole body and to curb his entire nature.

(The Message)
1-2Don't be in any rush to become a teacher, my friends. Teaching is highly responsible work. Teachers are held to the strictest standards. And none of us is perfectly qualified. We get it wrong nearly every time we open our mouths. If you could find someone whose speech was perfectly true, you'd have a perfect person, in perfect control of life. 


But again, the LORD is merciful... so merciful....


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## Blossssom (Jul 17, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> Yes girl, she dropped THE PLOW as they say here in the south, LOL.
> 
> But what she said was AWESOME!!!!!!



You and Coco could both start churches


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## Southernbella. (Jul 17, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I understand those qualifications for SERVICE, to be eligible for those specific roles. In a sense, Pastor Bryant has not operated out of those qualifications stated above, what it has been said to have done (adultery, fornication, etc.) applies to ALL BELIEVERS, yes?
> 
> Using your point about believers and non believers, it's almost the same thing: either there is a standard or there is not. There are not degrees or levels within the standard. Either one is a believer or not. Either one is an adulterer or not. Either one is a fornicator or not. There is no in-between. A laymember gets the same judgement for fornication as a clergymember, yes?
> 
> ...


 
I would think those scriptures apply to pastors. Don't pastors teach? All the ones I've ever known have.

As to this:



> I understand those qualifications for SERVICE, to be eligible for those specific roles. In a sense, Pastor Bryant has not operated out of those qualifications stated above, what it has been said to have done (adultery, fornication, etc.) applies to ALL BELIEVERS, yes?


 
I disagree. The Bible specifically states certain qualifications for leadership. If leaders aren't held to a higher standard, they wouldn't have been singled out in the Bible, no? Just like there are specific standards/instructions for women, men, and children, even though we are all believers.

Regardless, since Jamal _has_ operated outside of what the Bible outlines for leaders, (he's not of good behavior, not sober-minded, he's greedy for money, he is covetous, he's not holy, and he clearly doesn't have self-control), he should not be one any longer. I don't think anyone is condemning him to hell, as only God can do that, but we are (rightfully) calling for him to stop leading people.


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## PaperClip (Jul 17, 2007)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> I would think those scriptures apply to pastors. Don't pastors teach? All the ones I've ever known have.
> 
> As to this:
> 
> ...


 
I understand what you're saying here....

I still don't know if "standards" is the right word, though.... Maybe "instructions" is a better word because to me, that's more clear in terms of the expected/acceptable behaviors...and either you follow those instructions or behaviors or you don't...there's no room for interpretation or subjective judgement as what comes with "standards". And then also, as you said, EVERY BELIEVER, at every station of life, has instructions to follow: children, adults, marrieds, singles, widows, elders, bishops, deacons, etc.

And I have never advocated that he ought to remain in his position if these allegations are as they have been stated. Hopefully the proper protocols are in place for such things to be handled decently and in order without causing (more) harm to the congregation/church.


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## Monilove122 (Jul 18, 2007)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> I would think those scriptures apply to pastors. Don't pastors teach? All the ones I've ever known have.
> 
> As to this:
> 
> ...


 
ITA with everything you said because as you stated it is biblical that Pastors/leaders be held to a higher standard.  We discussed this in bible study earlier this year.  And, I think the idea that they shouldn't be held to a higher standard is exactly the problem.  They are allowed to get away with too much then the "well, he's only human" response is given for their actions.  I'm always like yes, he's human but he is SUPPOSED to be held to a higher standard and no one does that these days.  Pastors are allowed to do whatever they want and people don't question them even though they have The Bible as their authority.  It doesn't even have to be debated, just go to the word!!!


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## Monilove122 (Jul 18, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> You and Coco could both start churches


 
Girl, you are too much


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## cocoberry10 (Jul 18, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I understand those qualifications for SERVICE, to be eligible for those specific roles. In a sense, Pastor Bryant has not operated out of those qualifications stated above, what it has been said to have done (adultery, fornication, etc.) applies to ALL BELIEVERS, yes?
> 
> Using your point about believers and non believers, it's almost the same thing: either there is a standard or there is not. There are not degrees or levels within the standard. Either one is a believer or not. Either one is an adulterer or not. Either one is a fornicator or not. There is no in-between. A laymember gets the same judgement for fornication as a clergymember, yes?
> 
> ...



RR, I fully understand what you are saying about all of us being held to a higher standard as believers, and I agree.  However, I definitely think a minister is held in a different realm than other believers, and not because he is â€œbetterâ€ than other believers or â€œcloserâ€ to God than other believers.  However, you have to look at the fundamental role of a minister.  Their fundamental role is to spread the Lordâ€™s message.  And the message is pure and good and perfect.  Obviously, the messenger is not.  And as I said above, I donâ€™t think most (in fact I donâ€™t think anyone) on this thread is celebrating this situation or situations like it.  Because when the Bryantâ€™s of the world fall, we all fall.  Because we are all one body (the Body of Christ, the Body of the Lord) and as a body, we will all suffer when one of itâ€™s â€œpartsâ€ fails.  If your heart fails, your â€œbodyâ€ can die b/c without this vital working â€œpart,â€ other parts will fail.  However, if your arm stops working, you can still live.  Your body wonâ€™t work exactly the same, but you will not die.  In a way, this is how I see pastors.  We are all ministers, b/c we are all called to spread the gospel, but pastors are influencing many people.  Esepcially those who oversee a mega-church, like Bryant.  Especially those who are on television (where people all over the world can see). And for this reason, it definitely places you in a higher position.  Luke 12:48 says, â€œto whom much is given, much is required.â€  This does not mean that God will EVER expect us to be PERFECT.  No one but Jesus was perfect, thatâ€™s why HE died for us.

In the other thread, I mentioned that when someone is no longer â€œqualifiedâ€ to do their job, they are usually fired or they resign.  This is an example of something Bryant may have done on his own.  This does not mean that God cannot or will not use him in another vein, or use his respite from ministry to cleanse him and make him anew so he can return to ministry. However, God also cannot be mocked.  And someone who is living a lifestyle such as Bryantâ€™s or Ted Haggardâ€™s goes against Godâ€™s ways, not just manâ€™s.  These men are preaching to live one way, but living another entirely.  We all sin, however, we are not all reaching millions of people weekly and instructing them to live a certain way.  

Also, I do believe pastors will be judged more firmly, not just in how they lived their lives, but in how they delivered the Lordâ€™s message to their parishoners.  For example, if I preached only about the Lordâ€™s prosperity, but I never told my parishoners about loving their neighbor, this would be a faulty teaching.  I will look for some bible verses to validate this.


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## cocoberry10 (Jul 18, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> You and Coco could both start churches



Uh, uh.  I ainâ€™t gonna have you all starting threads about me and my corrupted self in 20 years .  I wish I could start a church hospital though for all those that need the Lordâ€™s healing to just come as you are and let God work on and through you.  Thatâ€™s what a church is supposed to be IMO.  Everyone needs God, even the ministers.


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 18, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I've browsed through this thread and lots of good, real, talk going on....
> 
> One part that kinda raises an eyebrow for me is this idea of pastors being held to a "higher" standard than the layfolk.... As defenders of the faith, sure these pastors are to do that: defend the word in their preaching and lifestyle.
> 
> ...


 
I hear what you are saying to a degree.  But the difference is that the pastor has a responsibility not only to God, but to the church and the body of belivers to whom he/she has been assigned.  My pastor often calls is a "burden".  If a pastor falls into sin, then he has to deal with the consequence that however wrong it may be, his sin may cause another believer to turn away from God.  His actions, even though we should not base our walk with God on what someone else does/does not do, have an affect on other believers. This is where we have to be careful and prayerful to not put our faith in man but in God.  I don't go to church to see whether my pastor is doing right or wrong, I go to hear a word from the Lord and to grow in Him and to fellowship with people of the same mind, and to work in my assigned place in the kingdom.


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## Blossssom (Jul 18, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I've browsed through this thread and lots of good, real, talk going on....
> 
> One part that kinda raises an eyebrow for me is this idea of pastors being held to a "higher" standard than the layfolk.... As defenders of the faith, sure these pastors are to do that: defend the word in their preaching and lifestyle.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but you don't need to defend the faith.  The faith stands on its own!

Just LIVE the faith while you're busy PROCLAIMING the faith (ministers and laypersons).

Ha!  Well, what you do in the dark will come to the light (in reference to the bolded) 

THE MEDIA!


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## cocoberry10 (Jul 18, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> Sorry, but you don't need to defend the faith.  The faith stands on its own!
> 
> Just LIVE the faith while you're busy PROCLAIMING the faith (ministers and laypersons).
> 
> ...



This is very true and biblical. Hey, maybe you should start a church!  I would attend.  At least I know you wouldnâ€™t lie!


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## Blossssom (Jul 18, 2007)

Naw, there ain't no lie in me!  Heehee!

No GREED either


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## PaperClip (Jul 18, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> Sorry, but you don't need to defend the faith. The faith stands on its own!
> 
> Just LIVE the faith while you're busy PROCLAIMING the faith (ministers and laypersons).
> 
> ...


 
I humbly offer this scripture to clarify my use of the phrase "defend the faith":

1 Peter 3:15
15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (KJV)

Be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you're living the way you are, and always with the utmost courtesy. (The Message)

15But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy [and acknowledge Him] as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully. (Amplified)

Also, I came across this: http://www.gotquestions.org/defend-faith.html
*Question: "Does the Bible call Christians to defend the faith / argue for the faith?"

Answer: *The classic verse promoting apologetics (the defense of the Christian faith) is 1 Peter 3:15, which basically says that believers are to make a defense "for the hope that you have." The only way to do this effectively is to study the reasons for why we believe what we believe. This will prepare us to "demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christâ€ as Paul said we should (2 Corinthians 10:5). Paul practiced what he preached, in fact doing apologetics was his regular activity (Philippians 1:7). He refers to apologetics as an aspect of his mission in the same passage (v.16). He also made apologetics a requirement for church leadership in Titus 1:9. Jude, an apostle of Jesus, wrote that "although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saintsâ€ (v.3).

Where did the apostles get these ideas? From the Master Himself. Jesus was His own apologetic as He stated time and again that we should believe in Him because of the evidence He provided for what He taught (John 2:23; 10:25; 10:38; 14:29). In fact, the whole Bible is full of miracles specifically being done by God to confirm what He wanted us to believe (Exodus 4:1-8; 1Kings 18:36-39; Acts 2:22/43; Hebrews 2:3-4; 2Corinthians 12:12). People rightly refuse to believe something without evidence. Since God created humans as rational beings, we should not be surprised when He expects us to live rationally. As Norman Geisler says, â€œThis does not mean there is no room for faith. But God wants us to take a step of faith in the light of evidence, rather than to leap in the dark.â€

Those who oppose these clear biblical teachings and examples may say things like, â€œThe Word of God does not need to be defended!â€ But which of the worldâ€™s writings are the word of God? As soon as someone answers that, they are doing apologetics. (How well they do it might be another story!) Some claim that human reason cannot tell us anything about God â€“ but isnâ€™t that a "reasonable" statement about God? If not then there is no reason to believe it, and if so then they have contradicted themselves. One of my favorites is, â€œIf someone can talk you into Christianity then someone else can talk you out.â€ Why is this a problem? Did not Paul himself give a criterion by which Christianity should be accepted or rejected in 1 Corinthians 15? It is only misplaced piety that answers in the negative.

Now none of this is to say that bare apologetics, free from the influence of the Holy Spirit, can bring someone to saving faith. This creates a false dilemma in the minds of many. But it does not have to be â€œSprit vs. Logicâ€ â€“ why not both? We must not confuse the fact that the Holy Spirit is required to move one into a position of belief with how He accomplishes this feat. With some people God uses trials, in others it is an emotional experience, in others it is through reason. God can use whatever means He wants. We, however, are commanded to use apologetics in as many or more places as we are told to preach the gospel. How is it then that all churches affirm the latter but so many ignore the former?


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## Blossssom (Jul 18, 2007)

I hear you now, RR... I misunderstood the way in which you said it... it happens.  Of course, the Scriptures are correct and so are you.


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## Shimmie (Jul 18, 2007)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> Sorry, but you don't need to defend the faith. The faith stands on its own!
> 
> Just LIVE the faith while you're busy PROCLAIMING the faith (ministers and laypersons).
> 
> ...


Ha!  Blosssom, that's why I keep 'nightlights' all around my home in every single room. I really do.   Trying my best not to stumble in the dark.   

But you're right angel, ' even in the dark, nothing is hidden.


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## Shimmie (Jul 18, 2007)

This is an excellent conversation Angels....EXCELLENT!  I'm pulling much from each of you and this is also healing and building each of us up in yet another 'Media Mania' of our precious Gospel.   

Notice how the Media NEVER focuses on the GOOD news of our faith which does trump the failures.   Once again the Media, like sharks smell the 'scent' of blood in the waters and here they come to prey upon the fallen.

BUT yet, we are here of like precious faith 'getting past this' and we will rule and reign and continue on in and with our love and faith in each other and in our TRUE LEADER...Jesus Christ.  

*Lauren and Relaxer Rehab...*I applaude both of your posts for you are both correct and you have presented accurate scripture to sustain what you have shared.   

YES! Leaders *are* to walk circumspect before the Lord and those they lead...and *so are we* *all *who follow who call ourselves Christians.  For we are ALL 'Walking Epistles'...we are all a "Gazing Stock"... even in the dark.  

As for me, I'm coming to* Pastor Blosssom's church.*  Girl, you ain't fooling nobody here.  You're full of God's word and His wisdom.  AND you love Him.  AND we love you too.  

Let's get through this angels...Bryant and the rest.  The devil thought he was taking down God's best...but I've got news for him...we're here still standing and holding up one another in spite of the mess and the press (Media).   

*Jesus is still on the throne!*


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## Monilove122 (Jul 18, 2007)

Am I the only one ABSOLUTELY loving this thread?  I keep coming in here cause all of you ladies are so insightful, knowledgable and sincere.  Y'all betta go 'head!!!!!  I know it won't be one that is fiftylevenmillion pages long but that's okay, it's fine just the way it is


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## Shimmie (Jul 18, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> Am I the only one ABSOLUTELY loving this thread? I keep coming in here cause all of you ladies are so insightful, knowledgable and sincere. Y'all betta go 'head!!!!! I know it won't be one that is fiftylevenmillion pages long but that's okay, it's fine just the way it is


It's it a beautiful blessing though?    The Word is coming forth and with open hearts and forthright Spirits.   The Holy Spirit is here with us.  It's a very hard 'issue' for us to face in the Body 'again', but we're pulling together.   We have to 'vent' and it's being done so beautifullly.  

We may have different interpretations, but we're still speaking as one.  

Monilove, I can't thank God enough for your boldness and wisdom.  Don't ever shut your mouth girl...You better Preach!   

((( hugs )))


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## Monilove122 (Jul 18, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> This is an excellent conversation Angels....EXCELLENT! I'm pulling much from each of you and this is also healing and building each of us up in yet another 'Media Mania' of our precious Gospel.
> 
> Notice how the Media NEVER focuses on the GOOD news of our faith which does trump the failures. Once again the Media, like sharks smell the 'scent' of blood in the waters and here they come to prey upon the fallen.
> 
> ...


 
AMEN!!  I wish those that wouldn't ordinarily come in the Christian forum would read this thread cause it's awesome.  There is so much confusion within the body of Christ even from those who say they know the Lord.  

I know this is OT but a friend called me two weeks ago cause the Associate Pastor at her church was caught stealing money from the church (he was forging the books and everything).  She is a faithful tither and said she would not tithe anymore and was just disgusted.  After we prayed (cause I believe we should *STOP, DROP, AND PRAY* whenever and whereever) I explained to her that tithing has nothing to do with whether or not someone else steals, she is following the word of God and will be blessed IN SPITE OF because she was obedient.  She still said no, not gonna do it and I was about to go to the bible to find some verses (I won't dare claim to know where every verse is but I do think I know the gist of the bible then go to it for exact verses to support or correct what I'm saying) but then she said you know what you are right.   She agreed that she would not miss out on her blessings by being moved by the actions of this corrupt man and continued to tithe.  Do you know she called me yesterday saying that she got a letter from the gov't that she did not cash a check they sent her (it was a GOOD amount) from 2006 and they would resend the check once she filled out some form.    She was floored but I told her that was confirmation that God will take care of His people no matter what.  I just rejoiced with her cause she needed this money right now (Isn't God awesome how He always knows what we need WHEN we need it)!!!  

Again, I know that was OT but it's just a testament to the point that we CANNOT BE MOVED BY THE UNGODLY ACTIONS OF OTHERS.  If we stay on His path he has laid out for us we'll be fine.  God has and will always stand right by our side.  Man, I'm about to make myself shout


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## Monilove122 (Jul 18, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> It's it a beautiful blessing though?  The Word is coming forth and with open hearts and forthright Spirits. The Holy Spirit is here with us. It's a very hard 'issue' for us to face in the Body 'again', but we're pulling together. We have to 'vent' and it's being done so beautifullly.
> 
> We may have different interpretations, but we're still speaking as one.
> 
> ...


 
It really is beautiful.  

One thing I have is a big mouth and I'm certainly not afraid to use it to uplift the name of Jesus!!!


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## PaperClip (Jul 18, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> AMEN!! I wish those that wouldn't ordinarily come in the Christian forum would read this thread cause it's awesome. There is so much confusion within the body of Christ even from those who say they know the Lord.
> 
> I know this is OT but a friend called me two weeks ago cause the Associate Pastor at her church was caught stealing money from the church (he was forging the books and everything). She is a faithful tither and said she would not tithe anymore and was just disgusted. After we prayed (cause I believe we should *STOP, DROP, AND PRAY* whenever and whereever) I explained to her that tithing has nothing to do with whether or not someone else steals, she is following the word of God and will be blessed IN SPITE OF because she was obedient. She still said no, not gonna do it and I was about to go to the bible to find some verses (I won't dare claim to know where every verse is but I do think I know the gist of the bible then go to it for exact verses to support or correct what I'm saying) but then she said you know what you are right. She agreed that she would not miss out on her blessings by being moved by the actions of this corrupt man and continued to tithe. Do you know she called me yesterday saying that she got a letter from the gov't that she did not cash a check they sent her (it was a GOOD amount) from 2006 and they would resend the check once she filled out some form. She was floored but I told her that was confirmation that God will take care of His people no matter what. I just rejoiced with her cause she needed this money right now (Isn't God awesome how He always knows what we need WHEN we need it)!!!
> 
> Again, I know that was OT but it's just a testament to the point that we CANNOT BE MOVED BY THE UNGODLY ACTIONS OF OTHERS. If we stay on His path he has laid out for us we'll be fine. God has and will always stand right by our side. Man, I'm about to make myself shout


 
I'm gonna do a praise run off of your friend's testimony! Whewwwww!!!! Look at God!!!!! God honored your friend's OBEDIENCE, regardless of what the pastor, the associate pastor, or whoevaaahhh!!!!! Love it! (laughs of joy and praise!)


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## Shimmie (Jul 19, 2007)

Monilove122 said:
			
		

> AMEN!! I wish those that wouldn't ordinarily come in the Christian forum would read this thread cause it's awesome. There is so much confusion within the body of Christ even from those who say they know the Lord.
> 
> I know this is OT but a friend called me two weeks ago cause the Associate Pastor at her church was caught stealing money from the church (he was forging the books and everything). She is a faithful tither and said she would not tithe anymore and was just disgusted. After we prayed (cause I believe we should *STOP, DROP, AND PRAY* whenever and whereever) I explained to her that tithing has nothing to do with whether or not someone else steals, she is following the word of God and will be blessed IN SPITE OF because she was obedient. She still said no, not gonna do it and I was about to go to the bible to find some verses (I won't dare claim to know where every verse is but I do think I know the gist of the bible then go to it for exact verses to support or correct what I'm saying) but then she said you know what you are right. She agreed that she would not miss out on her blessings by being moved by the actions of this corrupt man and continued to tithe. Do you know she called me yesterday saying that she got a letter from the gov't that she did not cash a check they sent her (it was a GOOD amount) from 2006 and they would resend the check once she filled out some form. She was floored but I told her that was confirmation that God will take care of His people no matter what. I just rejoiced with her cause she needed this money right now (Isn't God awesome how He always knows what we need WHEN we need it)!!!
> 
> Again, I know that was OT but it's just a testament to the point that we CANNOT BE MOVED BY THE UNGODLY ACTIONS OF OTHERS. If we stay on His path he has laid out for us we'll be fine. God has and will always stand right by our side. Man, I'm about to make myself shout


This is an awesome testimony!  The enemy tries to use 'mishaps' to stumble our witness and our faith in Jesus Christ.   God's word says that we will reap if we 'faint not.'   We can't let up on our faith and the works of our faith because of one who betrays or stumbles.  We must continue with what we know to do right. 

Also...I love 'Stop - Drop - and Pray'.   I'm telling you Monilove...Girl, you have a list of good ones.  I'm still loving, "W-I-T-W".... 

So *"WITH"* that in mind...let's go *"WITH"* Jesus, ATW (all the way). Amen


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## Favor2000 (Jul 23, 2007)

THis person always seems to know how to provide an answer people want to hear. I am so glad the truth about him finally came out. He does not lots of prayer but must of this he brought on himself. He has planted alot of bad seeds. The women he married is not spiritual at all and is not trying to get there she is more concern about materialistic things but does not try to grow spiritually. I really feel sorry for him but so glad the truth finally came out.


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