# Teacher loses job at Christian school because she's pregnant OOW



## Lucia (Apr 11, 2012)

source: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highs...stian-school-wedlock-pregnancy-145601399.html


In an incredibly bizarre situation that appears headed for a legal challenge, a Dallas-area volleyball coach and science teacher was fired by the Christian school at which she worked for becoming pregnant before being married.


As first reported by Dallas Fort Worth network WFAA, Rockwall (Texas) Heritage Christian Academy volleyball coach and science teacher Cathy Samford was fired during the fall semester after she became pregnant out of wedlock. Samford had led the volleyball program for three years and had been named the school's coach of the year once during that span.
Still, that couldn't help save her job when she first admitted her pregnancy during the fall semester, with the school terminating her based on a  violation of her contract's morals clause because it was determined her pregnancy meant she could not serve as "a Christian role model."
"I looked it up and thought, 'They can't do this,'" the 29-year-old Samford told WFAA. "We all have different views and interpretations. It's not necessarily the Christian thing to do to throw somebody aside because of those."
While Samford and her lawyer, Colin Walsh, are working toward filing a discrimination suit against the school, their case may be complicated by the fact that Heritage Christian Academy is a private school, and recent Supreme Court decisions have defended the right of Christian schools to exert more influence on their hirings and firings because they consider teachers to be "ministers in the classroom."
"The Supreme Court, as a matter of fact in the last month, has ruled 9-to-0 that a Christian school does have that right, because this is a ministry, so we have the right to have standards of conduct," Heritage Christian Academy headmaster Dr. Ron Taylor, who acknowledged that the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission had contacted the school, told WFAA. "How's it going to look to a little fourth-grade girl that sees she's pregnant and she's not married?"
While the two parties attempted mediation, those efforts failed quickly because the school refused to consider a settlement for the case.
That has left Samford uninsured and in financial distress as she heads towards giving birth, a situation she never considered possible when she was a proud member of Heritage Christian Academy's faculty.

~~~~~~~~~~~

She's up stinky creek without a paddle, I don't think she can win any case, they might pay her to make her go away and be quiet.  Then again they're standing on Christian morality clause and she signed the contract that she should have read thoroughly.  But I think contract or not she still can't win, it's a religiously based school, so they have the right to hold her as a teacher/minister to a higher standard. I mean what would be her answer in a Christian setting too one of her students regarding her pregnancy?
I think even in public schools this would pose a "problem" on the moral role model issue as well because they make pregnant girls leave public school and take GED night classes, so a teacher pregnant OOW they would probably hide her, or fire her too. It's harsh to do this to her but I guess she thought they would be OK with it-oops.  Well if she thinks these Christians are tough wait until Santorum is running the country-but that's for another forum. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What do you think about it?


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## diadall (Apr 11, 2012)

It's a private school so they can do what they want... I wouldn't want to fire her.

My friend subbed at a private school and had to sign a morality agreement. She signed and understood the agreement.


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## Shimmie (Apr 11, 2012)

Without condemnation...

It's not setting the right standard or example for the children.   

This is why we have so many young teens and 'tweens' having sex, of which they are not ready for and are having babies far too young.  They are following the grownups bad decisions in life.  

As badly as I feel for the woman, she is being selfish.   She needs to allow God to lead her from this issue, have her baby and focus on getting her life back on track with God and to live without sin.  

I'm truly fed up with those who seek to sue Churches, Ministries and Christian Schools, for standing upon God's principals.   If it's not gays whining and crying and suing, now it's a woman who is clearly in the wrong.   

God will take care of her; suing the Church is not a healthy course of action.  She needs to move on with life and prepare to take care of her baby.


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## Cheleigh (Apr 11, 2012)

I think she's out of luck. The fact is that she signed a morality agreement. At a private Christian school that gets no government funding. Then she got pregnant OOW. What she should have done was to seek other employment during her first trimester and left for another position without said clause and avoided all the commotion. 

And this is a little different that the hospital/birth control issue.


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## aribell (Apr 11, 2012)

I would be sympathetic if she seemed remorseful, but the "They can't do this" attitude and lawsuit makes it seem like she didn't take seriously their requirement that she set an example.


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## Crackers Phinn (Apr 11, 2012)

She shouldn't sue the school.  The morality clause that she signed is what it is.

However, it does not seem like a very pro life thing to do on the school's behalf.  Woman gets pregnant and you take away her access to prenatal healthcare.  The average unemployed person cannot afford COBRA.  

I don't know what the 'right' remedy for this situation, but the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


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## HeChangedMyName (Apr 11, 2012)

hmmm, Christian School... premarital sex....being an example to the students.  uhmmm yeah.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 12, 2012)

We have to be responsible for our actions. When you are in a position of influence you are morally (and in this case contractually) bound to uphold standards. If she was a Sunday School teacher at my church I would definately not want her maintaining that position while pregnant oow. And since this is a private Christian school they SHOULD uphold the principles of God's Word.

A church I know of in the area just sat down one of its musicians because he got his girlfriend pregnant. I was so happy to hear that because often it is only the girl who gets the "punishment".

It does suck about the insurance but if she worked for any other private company and had violated her contract, perhaps violated confidentiality or something, we would probebly say its her own fault and she should have thought about that before she breached her contract. But she can get medicaid and WIC so she can have a healthy pregnancy.

If morals and standards should be upheld ANYWHERE it should be at places that proclaims the name of God as their foundation.


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## LucieLoo12 (Apr 12, 2012)

Because thanks wasnt enough for this post! 

So true!

When you work for a company you are a represenative for them. If they didn't take action it would look like they was in agreement with it. So I agree with their actions.




CoilyFields said:


> We have to be responsible for our actions. When you are in a position of influence you are morally (and in this case contractually) bound to uphold standards. If she was a Sunday School teacher at my church I would definately not want her maintaining that position while pregnant oow. And since this is a private Christian school they SHOULD uphold the principles of God's Word.
> 
> A church I know of in the area just sat down one of its musicians because he got his girlfriend pregnant. I was so happy to hear that because often it is only the girl who gets the "punishment".
> 
> ...


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## diadall (Apr 12, 2012)

OOW + Morality Clause = SOL


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## Laela (Apr 12, 2012)

Exactly...




nicola.kirwan said:


> I would be sympathetic if she seemed remorseful, but the "*They can't do this" attitude and lawsuit makes it seem like she didn't take seriously their requirement that she set an example*.


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## Crackers Phinn (Apr 12, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> If morals and standards should be upheld ANYWHERE it should be at places that proclaims the name of God as their foundation.



But what about her unborn child?


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> But what about her unborn child?



I know it seems 'callous', no one is intentionally uncaring about this innocent life she is carrying.     It is 'she', this woman... she's the one not thinking about the consequences upon which she 'herself' has brought upon her child, it's not the Christian school. 

This woman made a choice to have sex outside of marriage.  This was 'her' choice.   She also made this choice knowing the standards of the School.  

When a baby suffers, it's *almost always *the fault of the parent(s) not those in the nuclear surroundings of these lives.   

It's as if she is trying to fault the school for her choice of sin and the consequences of it, when she's the one who created this situation in her life.  If nothing more, the school its self gave her an option to avoid getting herself into a situation like this, by sharing their morals, standards and expectations of each of their employees. 

It was this woman's choice to get caught up in the heat of the moment and to engage in unprotected sex.  Her choice to exercise her rights with her own body and to exercise her right to participate in an overrated '_two consenting adults'_ interaction.   

Okay... so folks make mistakes.   We all get that, for each of us sin and we each fall short of the glory of God.    However, God's Word says that He chastises those whom He loves.    When my parents warned me not to play with matches, they meant no harm, only good.  Yet when I 'chose' to challenge their warnings, I received a huge consequence on my 'bottom' by my mother.    I was spanked for being disobedient.  I knew better, yet I rebelled and disobeyed. 

This woman is really reaching.  This comment of hers is really out of order...

_"We all have different views and interpretations. It's not necessarily the Christian thing to do to throw somebody aside because of those."_

What she's saying is that this School has to think 'her' way and only her way.  She's saying that this School has to drop the morals of God's order and  God's standards and appease her choice of sin.   

This school is not being cruel, neither to her nor her baby.  She has options and one of them should most definitely be *'THE FATHER'* of her baby.   The man that she slept with.    

Where is he?   Sue him, instead if he's an unsupportive sperm donor.   

People are just so quick to try and make a mockery out of living right for God.  Leave the Churches and Christian Schools alone.   If folks want to live in a lifestyle differently than do so and leave the Church and Christian Schools alone.   This is nothing short of the enemy's plan to take away the rights of Ministries who strive to live a life of order... God's order.  

She needs to sue her _Baby Daddy_...


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Apr 12, 2012)

Ugh I am just soooo angry when I hear these things. I just want to scream. Losing your job because you got pregnant really sucks. BUUUUT she doesn't have a case since she signed an agreement. So she is kinda up a creek without a paddle. She can't argue her beliefs against a signed agreement. A "Morality Clause" has so much berth. You can call anything "immoral" these days.... You don't need scripture quotes and a reminder of the commandments to see she is out of gas....
It just really really sucks.

Hmmmm....too bad they didn't fire those priests back in the day when they were molesting those kids....Surely this too is immoral......even back then they were still firing women who got pregnant out of wedlock...that's nothing new....They were able to keep their jobs without worry. I guess they are not going to sweep her under a rug like they did those priests....JMHO.


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## StarScream35 (Apr 12, 2012)

I don't like her "they violated me attititude"...............what about how she violated them?? I mean when are people going to take responsibility for their actions and see their own faults? I really hope she doesn't win this case and I hate to say that since she's expecting a baby but she should have used her brain!


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## priceless2608 (Apr 12, 2012)

Rightfully so. I see no problem with the school firing her.


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## Laela (Apr 12, 2012)

Churches and their schools have a different standard from the rest of the world... I've heard of single folks working at a church losing their jobs having premarital sex with each other. People do LOSE their jobs over fraternizing..some secular organizations have "no fraternization" policies. So, why go hard on the school? Morality aside, she violated a CONTRACT with the school. If a contractor has a Standard of Work signed, they agree to adhere to the terms or they lose work. If we borrow from the bank and fail to pay, there are repercussions. *We all make mistakes..* but there are consequences that come with them, even when we are forgiven. Christians of all people should know that. 


I'm wondering it the school also had alternative repurcussions in the contract, like demotion or suspension... and she's angry because they choose to release her instead? Because I can't understand her anger otherwise.... 




Shimmie said:


> People are just so quick to try and make a mockery out of living right for God.  Leave the Churches and Christian Schools alone.   If folks want to live in a lifestyle differently than do so and leave the Church and Christian Schools alone.   This is nothing short of the enemy's plan to take away the rights of Ministries who strive to live a life of order... God's order.
> 
> She needs to sue her _Baby Daddy_...


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## JayAnn0513 (Apr 12, 2012)

The Supreme court says that teachers at religious schools are ministers. Since that is the case she is going to lose very quickly in court. She should focus on siging up for emergency medicaid and looking for a new job.


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

Laela said:


> Churches and their schools have a different standard from the rest of the world... I've heard of single folks working at a church losing their jobs having premarital sex with each other. People do LOSE their jobs over fraternizing..some secular organizations have "no fraternization" policies. So, why go hard on the school? Morality aside, she violated a CONTRACT with the school. If a contractor has a Standard of Work signed, they agree to adhere to the terms or they lose work. If we borrow from the bank and fail to pay, there are repercussions. *We all make mistakes..* but there are consequences that come with them, even when we are forgiven. Christians of all people should know that.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering it the school also had alternative repurcussions in the contract, like demotion or suspension... and she's angry because they choose to release her instead? Because I can't understand her anger otherwise....



 I agree.  

Her anger is misappropriated.   Again I have to ask:  Where's the Father of her baby?  Why hasn't he stepped up to the plate, for he sure indeed ate what she was serving him from it.   Homeboy needs to be a man and take care of his child and the mother.   

She should have made 'him' sign a contract before becoming sexually active with him.   

She needs to have a strict motto: 

No wed, No bed.... No contract, No contact... Fool you done heard what I said.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 12, 2012)

Crackers Phinn



			
				 @[URL="http://www.longhaircareforum.com/member.php?u=8092" said:
			
		

> Crackers Phinn[/URL];15701637]But what about her unborn child?


 

This responsibility cannot be shifted to the school. 

Her unborn child is first and foremost her and the fathers responsibility. 

It may seem crass (because often times people expect the church to embrace everything but not to judge good and bad-accepting Gods favor but not his wrath) but this happens everyday in the real world. Folks with families and bills are fired due to their own mistakes and it is not the jobs responsibility to try to figure out how they are gonna make ends meet. And in the US its not like shes kicked out on the streets with nowhere to turn. she will get uneployment, have access to Cobra, medicaid and WIC, and probebly many Christian based resources for pregnant women in her area etc.

This reminds me of Eli and his sons. God struck them dead and punished Eli and all of his descendants for allowing them to sin in his temple (they took advantage of their position as priests, dishonored Gods sacrifices, and had sex with women in the temple). God punished the sons for doing the actual sin, and Eli for not sitting them down when he was made aware of their sins. When you have been given charge over someone God will hold _you_ respsonsible for what you _allow_ them to be exposed to. You may not be able to protect them from every evil influence but you must not invite sin in. The schools responsibility is to God first, then the children that are placed in their care.


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Hmmmm....too bad they didn't fire those priests back in the day when they were molesting those kids....Surely this too is immoral......even back then they were still firing women who got pregnant out of wedlock...that's nothing new....They were able to keep their jobs without worry. I guess they are not going to sweep her under a rug like they did those priests....JMHO.



Was this the same Ministry who allowed those priests to 'slide' without reprimand   and penalty?   I totally agree that was a grave injustice, those priests should be under the jail, not in it.   No one has a right to molest a child and they deserve the most severe of punishments.  

However, was it this very same Ministry who allowed that to occur?  Is this specific Ministry practicing an immoral double standard?   

This woman is out of order with her demands and lawsuit.  If Ministries begin to succomb to the pressures of yielding to the whims and demands of those who are opposed, then how do we represent the Kingdom of God?  

This woman is using manipulation to gain sympathy by falsely representing the school as callous, uncaring and adding a burning cross to the media's perspective and image of Christianity.

Let's see what 'Oprah' does / has to say about this ... 


Note:  I hope my post doesn't 'sound' harsh or that it's directed towards you personally.   I promise you that it's not.   :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> Crackers Phinn
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you...  Coily 

God has instructed us clearly,  

*Isaiah 54:13 * 

_Your children shall be taught of the Lord and great shall be their peace.  _

* Proverbs 22:6: *

_Train up a child in the way that he should go and when he is old, he shall not depart from it. 
_

*Deuteronomy 11:18-19 *

_Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.

Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up._

Our children are to be raised in the fear of the Lord... Case Closed.


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## gn1g (Apr 12, 2012)

I agree with the school, because it is a christian school. Parents send their children to *Christian* schools so that morals can be instilled in them.

*Somebody needs to stand up and say something *!

SLIGhTLY OFF TOPIC:  have you all noticed how many student teacher sexual relationship news stories are reported weekly? This stuff is out of hand.   When I was in school, we never heard of such.


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## Blairx0 (Apr 12, 2012)

I agree, though against my own liking, she is doomed by the fine print. Though I never post here, I can't resit asking does that mean they will not hire women who have child/children out of wedlock? 

Thankfully I work at a public school!


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## CoilyFields (Apr 12, 2012)

Blairx0 said:


> I agree, though against my own liking, she is doomed by the fine print. Though I never post here, I can't resit asking does that mean they will not hire women who have child/children out of wedlock?
> 
> Thankfully I work at a public school!


 
I, of course, dont know the answer...but since this teacher signed a contract i assume that they discussed the schools expectations and whether or not she could adhere to those standards. I would like to think that past sins/mistakes are not held against potential employees as long as they agree to the contract (which would probebly mean the employee has repented for that sin and has no intention of having more oow kids).


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## Blairx0 (Apr 12, 2012)

Seems they would treat all evidence of sexual-type sin equally, but I guess there is just no way to know. Sigh.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Apr 12, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Was this the same Ministry who allowed those priests to 'slide' without reprimand   and penalty?   I totally agree that was a grave injustice, those priests should be under the jail, not in it.   No one has a right to molest a child and they deserve the most severe of punishments.
> 
> However, was it this very same Ministry who allowed that to occur?  Is this specific Ministry practicing an immoral double standard?
> 
> ...



Shimmie, nope! I know your passion. We're good

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 12, 2012)

lol ...(clears my throat) Amen!



Shimmie said:


> She should have made 'him' sign a contract before becoming sexually active with him.
> 
> She needs to have a strict motto:
> 
> No wed, No bed.... No contract, No contact... Fool you done heard what I said.


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Shimmie, nope! I know your passion. We're good
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using LHCF



  @ passion.     Yall' know me all too well.  

Thanks Love


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> lol ...(clears my throat) Amen!



   You know me too... 

But 'Healthy Hair', I'm just sayin'.... By now 'every' woman walking the face of this earth, aouttta' know Sumpin'...  

Ah' well...   I miss you, girl.


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

Blairx0 said:


> Seems they would treat all evidence of sexual-type sin equally, but I guess there is just no way to know. Sigh.



But how do you know that they don't.  This Ministry being sued.   How do you know that they don't treat 'all' sexual sins equally.  

Come on... 


No controversy, Just making a point.   It's not all Ministries that are biased.  Either way this woman is wrong.  She had a choice not to get layed... or pregnant.    There's no excuse for her situation.   It's 2012, I've never in my life seen more condom commercials and styles, shapes and Sizes.... and men lie.  They ask for jumbos when they know they're petites...  Maybe he lost it or something.   Bottomline, it's still her mistake not anyone else's...  

She knew what the risk was...


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## Blairx0 (Apr 12, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> But how do you know that they don't.  This Ministry being sued.   How do you know that they don't treat 'all' sexual sins equally.
> 
> Come on...
> 
> ...



No disagreement. She made her choice--such is the life. I was just wondering if the school took all evidence equally. I was more so interested in the evidence as in a child or pregnancy. I'm just nosy and though I have my own objections know she got what she signed up for; plain and simple.


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## Lucia (Apr 12, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> I agree.
> 
> Her anger is misappropriated.   Again I have to ask:  Where's the Father of her baby?  Why hasn't he stepped up to the plate, for he sure indeed ate what she was serving him from it.   Homeboy needs to be a man and take care of his child and the mother.
> 
> ...




TRUTH! SAY IT AGAIN!!


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## Lucia (Apr 12, 2012)

Blairx0 said:


> I agree, though against my own liking, she is doomed by the fine print. Though I never post here, I can't resit asking does that mean they will not hire women who have child/children out of wedlock?
> 
> Thankfully I work at a public school!



IMO the policy would stand because it would be common knowledge that they have kids, and then of course the topic of them being married or not would come up.  Again it would violate the minister/morality clause.  Now if the OOW thing was in their past and they are now married, they would just keep that past OOW part quiet or apply for a job that doesn't hold them to such "strict" standards of moral conduct.


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## frida1980 (Apr 12, 2012)

You guys are missing parts of the story. Her "baby daddy" is actually her fiancé. They were going to get married but after a series of unfortunate events they postponed it. She offered to get married but they fired her anyway. She's not some sleeze that up and got pregnant. Furthermore, if her fiancé doesn't have health insurance then she may as well not get married. All they've done is make us front a huge medical bill and force her child to be born out of wedlock. 

I hop she can find a job soon, but pregnant women can't find jobs in this economy. I think the Christian thing to do would have been to keep her health insurance so the child could be born safely.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 12, 2012)

frida1980 said:
			
		

> You guys are missing parts of the story. Her "baby daddy" is actually her fiancé. They were going to get married but after a series of unfortunate events they postponed it. She offered to get married but they fired her anyway. She's not some sleeze that up and got pregnant. Furthermore, if her fiancé doesn't have health insurance then she may as well not get married. All they've done is make us front a huge medical bill and force her child to be born out of wedlock.
> 
> I hop she can find a job soon, but pregnant women can't find jobs in this economy. I think the Christian thing to do would have been to keep her health insurance so the child could be born safely.



Fiance does not equal husband. Sex was supposed to come after marriage so how close they were to getting married doesn't make it not a sin. 
And the job should not be held responsible for her health insurance any more than cobra already makes provision for. They aren't responsible for her sin nor the consequences that ensue due to her own decision.  
Would you hold any other business responsible to that extent or is it because its a religious based org?


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## Lucia (Apr 12, 2012)

frida1980 said:


> You guys are missing parts of the story. Her "baby daddy" is actually her fiancé. They were going to get married but after a series of unfortunate events they postponed it. She offered to get married but they fired her anyway. She's not some sleeze that up and got pregnant. Furthermore, if her fiancé doesn't have health insurance then she may as well not get married. All they've done is make us front a huge medical bill and force her child to be born out of wedlock.
> 
> I hop she can find a job soon, but pregnant women can't find jobs in this economy. I think the Christian thing to do would have been to keep her health insurance so the child could be born safely.



Nobody here called her a sleeze or anything like that, but being engaged is not married, period. So it doesn't make her pregnancy legitimate she's still a baby mama OOW until they make that commitment step. I'm so tired of people trying to excuse their behavior by pointing the finger blaming someone or something else flipping the script manipulating sympathy for their problems that they caused and not owning up to their own mistakes and bad decisions.

We live in a day and age where someone can get wasted on alcohol and drugs, crash their car beat their mate half to death, mistreat their children, shave their head, curse out their boss publicly and turn around and say hey it's not my fault it's the drugs, it's the situation, my childhood I'm going to counseling rehab, feel sorry for me, yada yada. Do you hear violins, I do. (ahem:Britney, Lindsay, Charlie, Chris B) When they should own up and say hey* I *took that stuff, *I* did that nobody forced me and everything that happened was manifested from a series of bad decisions  *THAT I MADE.* and stop being punks about it. 

Now have you ever heard the saying don't do things that make you look bad. She made herself appear to be a person of loose morals why? because even if she didn't act like a spring break freak, she has the same outcome which makes her look like that's what she is, so that's what she will be treated as. 

Well if she was engaged that makes it worse that they postponed it cause the damage is done mostly to her as we are seeing.  She's the one to show and she's the one to brunt all of this not him, we all know that's the way it is and her fiancé should have stepped up and married her ASAP since that's what they were going to do anyways.  Her attitude that they should keep her on is not going to work because this is not what they want their school to represent to the children or to the world.  

They should have gone to the courthouse or just the 2 of them or their parents to the church and done it before she started to show.  Knowing that she's in that predicament they should have forgoed the big wedding plans and such and just gotten it taken care of. 

I hope she finds a job, and that so called fiancé steps up and acts like a man by taking care of his responsibilities by that I mean marry her, take care of her and his yet to be born child and protect her from taking on more of the blame that he should have taken on with her from the start instead of hiding like a wimp behind her skirt. They both made a mistake and now they are suffering the consequences, they're adults and they should have thought this through.


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

frida1980 said:


> You guys are missing parts of the story. Her "baby daddy" is actually her fiancé. They were going to get married but after a series of unfortunate events they postponed it. She offered to get married but they fired her anyway. She's not some sleeze that up and got pregnant. Furthermore, if her fiancé doesn't have health insurance then she may as well not get married. All they've done is make us front a huge medical bill and force her child to be born out of wedlock.
> 
> I hop she can find a job soon, but pregnant women can't find jobs in this economy. I think the Christian thing to do would have been to keep her health insurance so the child could be born safely.



I don't believe anyone is calling her a sleeze.      It's simply not the School's responsibility to take the blame for what she and her fiance' chose to do, which they both had no business doing in the first place, which is having premarital sex.   

All of this  'we were gonna get married, but now we can't.... is a pail of hooey dooey.   The unfortunate events haven't stopped them from living together.  Get Married in Chambers (the private Chambers of their Pastor or that of a Judge) and move on in life.     

This man ain't cripple; as a matter of fact as long as he's *above six feet * (not buried underground) and breathing, he can work and obtain insurance for him, and his family.  The same body that got her pregnant can work to take care of her and their baby.   

Instead of taking responsibility for their own actions, they are blaming folks who had absolutely nothing to do with their actions which lead to her pregnancy.  

That school did not lead them into temptation; that school did not push them into sexual sin.   There is absolutely nothing stopping this man from taking care of his responsibility.   As the saying goes, _"handle your business".  _

I met my first husband when I was 15 years old.  And yeah... I got pregnant.  The first thing my mother told me was _"You made your bed, now sleep in it." _ For years prior, both she and my father gave me the 'talk'.   To guard and protect my virtue.  Did I listen?   Obviously I didn't.   

I was a young teen and we got married.  Both of our parents had to 'sign' for us to get married for he was not of age.   The rest is history.   Was I suppose to sue my mother when she gave me fair warning to keep myself chaste before marriage?    No!  I was a kid but I still knew better. 

These people in this case are FULL GROWN and they are not babies or teens.  They know better.   They are going to have to sleep in the bed they have made and get over it.    

Their complaints against the school are not valid.   I don't want to hear it.  Folks need to step up and account for their irresponsibilities.   Who wants a man who's not man enough to say,  "Baby, we WILL make this work.   We were careless and now I have to be man enough to take responsibility for our family which we have made.    We have no right to sue someone for what we did against ourselves.   

My former husband (God rest his soul), he was a teen but he still stepped up and chose to marry me and did his best to make it work.   We were never hungry... I still have full healthy skin to prove it.  

All I'm trying to say is that it's still the responsibility of both of these adults to take care of themselves, not this school who has nothing to do with their life choices.   That's all.    

No controversy towards you... :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

Lucia said:


> Nobody here called her a sleeze or anything like that, but being engaged is not married, period. So it doesn't make her pregnancy legitimate she's still a baby mama OOW until they make that commitment step. I'm so tired of people trying to excuse their behavior by pointing the finger blaming someone or something else flipping the script manipulating sympathy for their problems that they caused and not owning up to their own mistakes and bad decisions.
> 
> We live in a day and age where someone can get wasted on alcohol and drugs, crash their car beat their mate half to death, mistreat their children, shave their head, curse out their boss publicly and turn around and say hey it's not my fault it's the drugs, it's the situation, my childhood I'm going to counseling rehab, feel sorry for me, yada yada. Do you hear violins, I do. (ahem:Britney, Lindsay, Charlie, Chris B) When they should own up and say hey* I *took that stuff, *I* did that nobody forced me and everything that happened was manifested from a series of bad decisions  *THAT I MADE.* and stop being punks about it.
> Now have you ever heard the saying don't do things that make you look bad. She made herself appear to be a person of loose morals why? because even if she didn't act like a spring break freak, she has the same outcome which makes her look like that's what she is, so that's what she will be treated as.
> ...



I just read your post... thank you for saying it first...


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## dicapr (Apr 12, 2012)

The school is within its legal rights. But this is the type of "christian" behavior that makes non-believers scratch their head.  I don't know how a organization thinks that firing a woman leaving her in a situation where she has difficulty taking care of her child is the right course of action.  Plus the teacher offered a biblical solution-get married.  But still, they felt the need to throw stones and make an example of her.  They could have easily suspended her without pay until she married. While the teacher's actions were not good for a role model, neither was the administration's action.  Both parties are WRONG !!!


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

Lucia said:


> TRUTH! SAY IT AGAIN!!





Girl, I only wear diamonds.


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## Lucia (Apr 12, 2012)

dicapr said:


> The school is within its legal rights. But this is the type of "christian" behavior that makes non-believers scratch their head.  I don't know how a organization thinks that firing a woman leaving her in a situation where she has difficulty taking care of her child is the right course of action.  Plus the teacher offered a biblical solution-get married.  But still, they felt the need to throw stones and make an example of her.  They could have easily suspended her without pay until she married. While the teacher's actions were not good for a role model, neither was the administration's action.  Both parties are WRONG !!!



I don't think the school was wrong, they clearly put in writing what was expected of her and she choose to ignore it. (pun intended) By letting the situation get ahead of her.  She choose to wait and show then expected no one to say anything about it. 
You have a point, they could have suspended her without pay, true, it would have made her not visible to children and curiosity and solved part of the problem.  Only if they had not had the morality clause as part of the hiring contract but only a set of employee rules. She signed the contract and the morality clause was in there and she should have read it, and taken it seriously. For the record employers can fire you if they feel the problem is too big to "suspend" so they don't have to deal with you anymore it's their right it's called at will employment/termination.  It can be done without a contract clause, the company employee handbook rules, policy, procedures is enough to base it on even if it's not in a contract.


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## Galadriel (Apr 12, 2012)

dicapr said:


> The school is within its legal rights. But this is the type of "christian" behavior that makes non-believers scratch their head.  I don't know how a organization thinks that firing a woman leaving her in a situation where she has difficulty taking care of her child is the right course of action.  Plus the teacher offered a biblical solution-get married.  But still, they felt the need to throw stones and make an example of her.  They could have easily suspended her without pay until she married. While the teacher's actions were not good for a role model, neither was the administration's action.  Both parties are WRONG !!!



If she signed a morality clause and violated it, then it's within the school's rights to discipline or fire as it sees fit. There are also religious colleges and universities that have not only employees sign morality clauses, but also the students who attend.

I attended a religious private university. Dude, I had to sign a morality clause (that included no dancing ). If the woman didn't agree or didn't take it seriously, she should've thought about it before signing the contract.


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## BostonMaria (Apr 12, 2012)

I think this is a very sad situation. Its going to be hard for her to seek employment while being pregnant. I don't condone what she did but as a mom and Christian I can't help but feel sorry for her.


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## Galadriel (Apr 12, 2012)

BostonMaria said:


> I think this is a very sad situation. Its going to be hard for her to seek employment while being pregnant. I don't condone what she did but as a mom and Christian I can't help but feel sorry for her.



I feel badly about the situation as well (especially with this crappy economy, who wants to see anyone lose a job?), but she signed that contract knowing it would be enforced. Her and her fiance could've gone down to the courthouse to make it legal and waited later for a big wedding/church wedding. If she had actually been living according to the contract and (I'm assuming) her Christian principles, she wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.

The school is not responsible for her child, her and her fiance are.


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## FlyyBohemian (Apr 12, 2012)

It was her choice to teach there so she should have acted according to standard. I've turned down a position in church before because I knew I wasn't ready. People should have enough integrity to do the same.


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## FlyyBohemian (Apr 12, 2012)

Ignore this post


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## FlyyBohemian (Apr 12, 2012)

A part of me sympathizes with her and her fiance because there are so many people having sex in the church. Unfortunately she got caught in a bad situation. Remember ladies, getting pregnant ain't a sin. It's just proof that you've been sinning...and admit it. A lot of us in the church have been sinning. My thing is the school has a duty to God and the parents paying that extra tuition to adhere to standard. I wish that woman and her fiancé the best. I repeat. There are some jobs that you can turn down. If it was so important for her to teach at a Christian school then she should have adhered to the rules.


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

Blairx0 said:


> I agree, though against my own liking, she is doomed by the fine print. Though I never post here, I can't resit asking does that mean they will not hire women who have child/children out of wedlock?
> 
> Thankfully I work at a public school!



If these women are no longer having premarital sex, or living with someone as if they were married, but they are not.... then they would be able to qualify.  It's the life we live that speaks representation.     I'll tell you, being in public school is no saving grace for anything goes and it's dangerous.  No restraint is the god that's ruling the public school system.   

The problem is that God has a standard and it's not to harm us but to protect us.   Even the married employees have to live up to the morality clause.  They cannot be in sexual sin; no adultery, pornography, etc.   It's not acceptable.   So it's not just this woman.  It's anyone who fails to live up to the moral standards God has called us to.   In the book of Timothy, God's Word is clear on how we are to live, those of us who represent the Ministry.


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## Shimmie (Apr 12, 2012)

FlyyBohemian said:


> A part of me sympathizes with her and her fiance because there are so many people having sex in the church. Unfortunately she got caught in a bad situation. Remember ladies, getting pregnant ain't a sin. It's just proof that you've been sinning...and admit it. A lot of us in the church have been sinning. My thing is the school has a duty to God and the parents paying that extra tuition to adhere to standard. I wish that woman and her fiancé the best. I repeat. There are some jobs that you can turn down. If it was so important for her to teach at a Christian school then she should have adhered to the rules.



Truth and compassion is flowing from your post...  

Thank you.


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## dicapr (Apr 13, 2012)

Galadriel said:


> If she signed a morality clause and violated it, then it's within the school's rights to discipline or fire as it sees fit. There are also religious colleges and universities that have not only employees sign morality clauses, but also the students who attend.
> 
> I attended a religious private university. Dude, I had to sign a morality clause (that included no dancing ). If the woman didn't agree or didn't take it seriously, she should've thought about it before signing the contract.



I agree that the school is with their legal rights. But the higher morality that we as Christians are held to is what is at issue here.  Yes it is legally right but is it morally right?  Somehow I have trouble envisioning Christ throw out a woman and her child because she made a mistake even though she admitted fault.  As someone pointed out earlier she could have secretly wed and covered up her sin but yet she chose to come clean.  I just can't say I feel right morally about their decision.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 13, 2012)

^^^I would say the higher morality clause would be the word of God. I gave the example earlier of Eli and his sons. God straight killed them for their violation of the priestly position He had given them. Then we have the example of Jesus stopping the crowd from stoning the woman caught in adultery. Some situations call for mercy and others call for immediate punishment. The school thought it was within their (and the childrens) best interest to cut her completely off and there is nothing morally wrong with that. From her reaction in the article it didnt seem like she was completely repentant and taking responsibility for her actions...otherwise she wouldnt be suing nor saying that there could be a different interpretation of morality (forreal?).

Christ isnt throwing this woman and her child out...her sin is putting her in a position of uncomfortability (which is the purpose of chestizement-along with reconciliation). This isn't a case of a callous unfeeling Christian school kicking out a destitute woman with nowhere to turn living on the streets 9 months pregnant. Lets not paint that picture. This woman will have all of the standard benefits extended to people who are fired in america (unemployment, free prenatal health care, food stamps, WIC, rental/mortgage assistance, utitlity assistance, employment assistance etc.) many of which are founded by Christian organizations. And there is the childs father...


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## FlyyBohemian (Apr 13, 2012)

CoilyFields said:
			
		

> ^^^I would say the higher morality clause would be the word of God. I gave the example earlier of Eli and his sons. God straight killed them for their violation of the priestly position He had given them. Then we have the example of Jesus stopping the crowd from stoning the woman caught in adultery. Some situations call for mercy and others call for immediate punishment. The school thought it was within their (and the childrens) best interest to cut her completely off and there is nothing morally wrong with that. From her reaction in the article it didnt seem like she was completely repentant and taking responsibility for her actions...otherwise she wouldnt be suing nor saying that there could be a different interpretation of morality (forreal?).
> 
> Christ isnt throwing this woman and her child out...her sin is putting her in a position of uncomfortability (which is the purpose of chestizement-along with reconciliation). This isn't a case of a callous unfeeling Christian school kicking out a destitute woman with nowhere to turn living on the streets 9 months pregnant. Lets not paint that picture. This woman will have all of the standard benefits extended to people who are fired in america (unemployment, free prenatal health care, food stamps, WIC, rental/mortgage assistance, utitlity assistance, employment assistance etc.) many of which are founded by Christian organizations. And there is the childs father...



She could also try getting a job at an inner city school district.


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## Shimmie (Apr 13, 2012)

dicapr said:


> I agree that the school is with their legal rights. But the higher morality that we as Christians are held to is what is at issue here.  Yes it is legally right but is it morally right?  Somehow I have trouble envisioning Christ throw out a woman and her child because she made a mistake even though she admitted fault.
> 
> *As someone pointed out earlier she could have secretly wed and covered up her sin but yet she chose to come clean.  I just can't say I feel right morally about their decision*.



She didn't come 'clean' until she began to show.   

As for getting married 'secretly'... that's just a lie; just plain deception to try and cover up what was already done.  God's not fooled.  

The moral thing to do would have been for 'her' to come clean the very moment she and her fiance were having premarital sex.   God's word is clear, "Your sin will find you out.".   You cannot cover sin.   This woman has violated the morality clause in several counts by her own choosing.  

Since when are we as Christians supposed to drop to the world's lax attitude with morals?   What has occurred is HER doing, not the school's.  Instead of taking the school for a fool, thinking she could live the way she wanted to knowing it was inappropriate, is her doing.   Being pregnant is not the sin, it's her choice of living outside of what she signed to live up to.   

I want to know who does the world think they are to judge morals?  This earth is falling by wayside more rapidly each day.  God is not hating on this woman and neither is the school.   They have to maintain a standard of living and I truly do not appreciate this innocent baby being used as a pawn for her to have her way and to also blaze a trail for others who oppose moral standards to start suing Ministries for doing what God has called them to do. 

Her choice was clear, it was hidden.  If she chose to live a different lifestyle, then she should have resigned a long time ago and sought employment elsewhere.   She's learning a lesson here.  God is not changing just to accommodate those who chose to live against His set order.   Who does she think she is to sue God for what she knows is wrong in the first place.   

She needs to hammer down on the man she's pregnant by and make him pay for his responsibility.   How dare they put this on someone else who had nothing to do with their choice.   

I hope this man is not a kang... depending upon HER to provide when it should be HIM.   If he's joined her in this case, he's a straight up Kang and that is just shameful.  He should be out taking care of his family and not wasting time blaming someone else for what he and she chose to do.  

Put the blame where it belongs which is not upon this Christian Ministry.


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## LucieLoo12 (Apr 13, 2012)

Shimmie

If I could hit the thanks button a 1,000 times I would!!

This was her job, not her church. She knew the agreement clause she signed. Now if she was raped and got preggie, then thats different. But she laid down knowing the consquences of her actions. So when she was doing the "do" her job wasn't on her mind, so the school should break their policies because she feels wronged?? 

No, if the school lets down, you gone see more preggie teachers and maybe even students. If I was a parent, PAYING tution for my child and this was going on in the school, I would be upset. Parents pay for private school to get what the public school can't offer, especially a Christian school at that.

Now I am not saying she is rejected of God. Hopefully she turns away from her fornication...but as for as the job 



Shimmie said:


> *Put the blame where it belongs which is not upon this Christian Ministry. *


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## Laela (Apr 13, 2012)

------ @ Shimmie, just read your posts....

This really is about personal accountability and consequences of one's own choices... we all go through this.


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## Shimmie (Apr 13, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Shimmie
> 
> If I could hit the thanks button a 1,000 times I would!!
> 
> ...



That's the point, Christian parents want Christian education for their children.   The public school system is a mess and it's the right of Christian schools and parents to guard our children from it.   Why should any parent pay for the sins of the world?    There has to be a marked distinction.   

Where I live there are separate buses taking the Jewish children to their separate schools.  They have their separate holidays and separate instruction which is Biblically based (Isaiah 54:13).  They have a separate mandate and curriculum for their instructors and it better be followed.   Would she sue them?   I don't think so... yet folks want to single out Christians as the bad guys.  

Jesus said, go and sin no more.  She's still with her boyfriend... unmarried.  That finance' title doesn't hold water or juice.  They should be married and taking responsibility for their baby.


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## Shimmie (Apr 13, 2012)

Laela said:


> ------ @ Shimmie, just read your posts....
> 
> This really is about personal accountability and consequences of one's own choices... we all go through this.



Yes mamm,   It is most definitely about accountability and we all go through it.   

I taught in two Christian schools and was leader of our Sunday School for 12 years in my first Church.   Everyone there had to be oriented to the standards of living.  

This included the Ministry of Helps (volunteers); Deacons, Associate Pastors, everyone who was a part of the Ministry had to take the class which explained accountability and we each signed the Morality agreement.   It was listed and clear what we were held accountable to for we were ambassadors and Ministers and people looked to us as leaders. 

I feel badly for this woman, not because she's pregnant...    Because she doesn't believe she violated her contract; that she did nothing wrong.  And that she's with a man who is not taking care of her and their baby.


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## Laela (Apr 13, 2012)

That's the root of the matter right there...and I guess what has been bothering me. She is angry with _their _decision and hasn't even accepted any of her footprint in all this. It's ALL the school's fault..them and that "morality clause" of theirs.. 









Shimmie said:


> I feel badly for this woman, not because she's pregnant...    Because she doesn't believe she violated her contract; that she did nothing wrong.  And that she's with a man who is not taking care of her and their baby.


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## Shimmie (Apr 13, 2012)

Laela said:


> That's the root of the matter right there...and I guess what has been bothering me. She is angry with _their _decision and hasn't even accepted any of her footprint in all this. It's ALL the school's fault..them and that "morality clause" of theirs..



It bothers me also that folks are trying to put a negative smear on Christians.  It's the same old retort over and over depicting Christians as villians.  

_ Is this how Christians treat folks?  Is this what Jesus would do? _ 

And THAT's what I call truly wrong.  She's 'playing' with this as if she's been kicked out in the cold, barefoot, helpless and pregnant...  _how cruel of Christians to do so.  _

Really?   

I can guarantee that Christians are supporting her; just not as a leader in the school.  None of them feel good about this.  It's a very sad situation.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 13, 2012)

Miss you too...




Shimmie said:


> You know me too...
> 
> But 'Healthy Hair', I'm just sayin'.... By now 'every' woman walking the face of this earth, aouttta' know Sumpin'...
> 
> Ah' well... I miss you, girl.


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## FlyyBohemian (Apr 13, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> That's the point, Christian parents want Christian education for their children.   The public school system is a mess and it's the right of Christian schools and parents to guard our children from it.   Why should any parent pay for the sins of the world?    There has to be a marked distinction.
> 
> Where I live there are separate buses taking the Jewish children to their separate schools.  They have their separate holidays and separate instruction which is Biblically based (Isaiah 54:13).  They have a separate mandate and curriculum for their instructors and it better be followed.   Would she sue them?   I don't think so... yet folks want to single out Christians as the bad guys.
> 
> Jesus said, go and sin no more.  She's still with her boyfriend... unmarried.  That finance' title doesn't hold water or juice.  They should be married and taking responsibility for their baby.



I agree. Moslems, Hindus, and other religions up hold standard and are not criticized. Christianity has become so commercialized that people have forgotten what true Christianity is.


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## Shimmie (Apr 13, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> Miss you too...



You know I need you to keep me in check... :blush3:  

 

I pray all is well and you are always in my heart and prayers.  I love your Ministry... it's real...so are you.


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## dicapr (Apr 13, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> She didn't come 'clean' until she began to show.
> 
> As for getting married 'secretly'... that's just a lie; just plain deception to try and cover up what was already done.  God's not fooled.
> 
> ...



I think you have completely missed my point.  I am not arguing that our standards should be lowered.  I am merely stating that grace and restoration is the good news of Christianity.  Yes, God has a standard. He has always dealt with sin with both standard and grace. Extending grace doesn't mean accepting the sin.  That is where my statements are being misunderstood.  The idea that grace and sin cannot abound together in Christianity ignores the gospel of Christ.  If God were to give us what we deserved according to his law we would all be in trouble.  If God extends grace that cost him his Son, why are Christians so quick to want to exact justice while ignoring grace?  The woman could and should have been extended Grace.  There is no grace and charity to be found in putting a woman and her unborn child in the unemployment line.  She will not be able to find a job if she is indeed showing and now she is without prenatal care.  Does that really sound like something Jesus would condone.  The woman caught in adultry should have been stoned according to the law yet Jesus demonstrated grace.  Was he not sent to show us the intention of the Law and his character?


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## Shimmie (Apr 13, 2012)

dicapr said:


> I think you have completely missed my point.  I am not arguing that our standards should be lowered.  I am merely stating that grace and restoration is the good news of Christianity.  Yes, God has a standard. He has always dealt with sin with both standard and grace. Extending grace doesn't mean accepting the sin.  That is where my statements are being misunderstood.
> 
> The idea that grace and sin cannot abound together in Christianity ignores the gospel of Christ.  If God were to give us what we deserved according to his law we would all be in trouble.  If God extends grace that cost him his Son, why are Christians so quick to want to exact justice while ignoring grace?  The woman could and should have been extended Grace.
> 
> ...



dicapr...  don't confuse grace with chastening.   This woman was given MUCH grace.  Each time she undressed to have premarital sex with the man she's involved with... GRACE was with her and on that job.   She's not without options and you cannot blame this school justly when they are taking heed to what had to be done.     

Jesus told the woman to 'go and sin no more'.    This is not the case with the woman in this situation.  

Get it through your head that as Christians we are going to 'walk this walk' and it will not be all talk.   If we say we are Christian, we are going to live it.   God has not forsaken this woman, neither has the school who had to terminate her position with them.   

To be totally honest it was not the school who terminated her,  it was SHE who terminated herself from that job.   She did so by not adherreiing to the requirements expected of her.   

Let's get something straight.   There is a spirit behind those who willfully and purposely choose to indulge in sin, especially sexual sin.   And it is a spirit that imparts itsself into others.  This woman is/was around children who are very impressionable.   Children look up to their teachers; their teachers become their icons/idols.   They want to grow up and be like Ms ........ or Mr............  

Now when an adult is living in sexual sin, this spirit has a way of trickling down upon those under it.   This woman admitted that she had a 'different' perspective than that of the school... A different perspective that would no doubt be passed onto some of the children there, breaking their boundaries of morality and virtue.    

While you're looking on the 'outside' of this situation, God is looking at the very depth and breath of the heart of this woman's character.  She is not God focused; if she was, she would be thinking more of the good for the children she teaches rather than herself.   

When this woman took this position, she made a promise to God... not just to man, but to God to uphold the morality of the school's Ministry.   She did not respect this, neither did she uphold it.   God has to remove her to avoid further rebellion which would no doubt spill over into the children.  

This woman had a chance to live right and she did not.  The school is not set upon punishing her.   She did not make an unintentional mistake.  She made a concious decision to live and sleep with a man, to have unprotected sex and to get pregnant and then expect it to exceptable.

There is absolutely NO reason why the man she is with cannot take care of her and their baby.  No reason whatsoever.  This is what God is conveying.   

Something else, if the school let's her slide... then who's next?  Who's next who will expect and demand the same treatment... to not terminate their employment.   Where does it end?    The school has then lost it's accountability to the Word of God.      

God is not mean; He is a loving Father.  However we need to behave ourselves or suffer the consequences.   And you know this.  

This woman has been given much grace...much.  She was allowed to be employed for God only knows how long while still having sex outside of marriage.    She wouldn't listen...now she has to.   So does the man whom she's pregnant by.


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## dicapr (Apr 13, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> dicapr...  don't confuse grace with chastening.   This woman was given MUCH grace.  Each time she undressed to have premarital sex with the man she's involved with... GRACE was with her and on that job.   She's not without options and you cannot blame this school justly when they are taking heed to what had to be done.
> 
> Jesus told the woman to 'go and sin no more'.    This is not the case with the woman in this situation.
> 
> ...



You can live by that philosophy if you want to.  Since neither one of us are privy to her bedroom we have no idea about how many times she had sex with her FH, whether they prayed for forgiveness, ect.  We are just speculating. 

As a Christian, I know that God has repeatedly forgiven me and extended grace with less consequence than I deserve.  My thankfulness extends to my fellow man.  Because God has given me much grace and forgiveness and I tend to extend that to others.  I guess some Christians are unaware of how much God has forgiven then and allowed them to continue on with their lives free from the consequences they deserve.  I say this because so many Christians are quick to demand someone get what they deserve. Many feel because someone has fallen they should receive what is coming to them.  If God truly adhered to that line of thinking all would be lost.  The bible says that by the same meter we measure our brothers and sisters in Christ he will judge us.  I'm guessing from the responses the majority of Christians want what's coming to them.  If they sin their punishment will be justified. Do you really want the only grace extended to you by the Father to be your life.  While it is more than any of us deserve  I would like even more of his abundant GRACE!  I really do not want God, being just, to mete out the justice I deserve.  Every time I fall I do not want to lose my job, house, and the ability to take care of myself. 

 You can have justice while I accept the gift of Grace. This great gift makes me want to spread it to my fellow man.  I have been forgiven and restored in so many areas of my life.  I cannot deny what God has freely given to me to my fellow sister in Christ.


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## menina (Apr 13, 2012)

dicapr said:


> You can live by that philosophy if you want to.  Since neither one of us are privy to her bedroom we have no idea about how many times she had sex with her FH, whether they prayed for forgiveness, ect.  We are just speculating.
> 
> As a Christian, I know that God has repeatedly forgiven me and extended grace with less consequence than I deserve.  My thankfulness extends to my fellow man.  Because God has given me much grace and forgiveness and I tend to extend that to others.  I guess some Christians are unaware of how much God has forgiven then and allowed them to continue on with their lives free from the consequences they deserve.  I say this because so many Christians are quick to demand someone get what they deserve. Many feel because someone has fallen they should receive what is coming to them.  If God truly adhered to that line of thinking all would be lost.  The bible says that by the same meter we measure our brothers and sisters in Christ he will judge us.  I'm guessing from the responses the majority of Christians want what's coming to them.  If they sin their punishment will be justified. Do you really want the only grace extended to you by the Father to be your life.  While it is more than any of us deserve  I would like even more of his abundant GRACE!  I really do not want God, being just, to mete out the justice I deserve.  Every time I fall I do not want to lose my job, house, and the ability to take care of myself.
> 
> You can have justice while I accept the gift of Grace. This great gift makes me want to spread it to my fellow man.  I have been forgiven and restored in so many areas of my life.  I cannot deny what God has freely given to me to my fellow sister in Christ.



i understand what you're saying.

even though we receive grace and mercy from God, there are still consequences for our actions while we live on this earth.

her fiance can still work and i'm sure people will be charitable to her for the sake of the child.


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## aribell (Apr 14, 2012)

FlyyBohemian said:


> I agree. Moslems, Hindus, and other religions up hold standard and are not criticized. Christianity has become so commercialized that people have forgotten what true Christianity is.



I think many people also feel like its so close and familiar that they have a right to redefine it.  It can also be an identity that people don't want to leave behind.  I studied with a group of people once who were clearly no longer committed to the Christian faith, but instead of simply saying, "Ok, I don't really believe this anymore/don't adhere to it anymore" they wanted to change it, wanted everyone else to accept a new and different version of it.


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2012)

nicola.kirwan said:


> I think many people also feel like its so close and familiar that they have a right to redefine it.  It can also be an identity that people don't want to leave behind.
> 
> *I studied with a group of people once who were clearly no longer committed to the Christian faith, but instead of simply saying, "Ok, I don't really believe this anymore/don't adhere to it anymore" they wanted to change it, wanted everyone else to accept a new and different version of it.*



  The group _The Christian Left_... for example.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2012)

dicapr said:


> You can live by that philosophy if you want to.  Since neither one of us are privy to her bedroom we have no idea about how many times she had sex with her FH, whether they prayed for forgiveness, ect.  We are just speculating.
> 
> As a Christian, I know that God has repeatedly forgiven me and extended grace with less consequence than I deserve.  My thankfulness extends to my fellow man.  Because God has given me much grace and forgiveness and I tend to extend that to others.  I guess some Christians are unaware of how much God has forgiven then and allowed them to continue on with their lives free from the consequences they deserve.  I say this because so many Christians are quick to demand someone get what they deserve. Many feel because someone has fallen they should receive what is coming to them.  If God truly adhered to that line of thinking all would be lost.  The bible says that by the same meter we measure our brothers and sisters in Christ he will judge us.  I'm guessing from the responses the majority of Christians want what's coming to them.  If they sin their punishment will be justified. Do you really want the only grace extended to you by the Father to be your life.  While it is more than any of us deserve  I would like even more of his abundant GRACE!  I really do not want God, being just, to mete out the justice I deserve.  Every time I fall I do not want to lose my job, house, and the ability to take care of myself.
> 
> You can have justice while I accept the gift of Grace. This great gift makes me want to spread it to my fellow man.  I have been forgiven and restored in so many areas of my life.  I cannot deny what God has freely given to me to my fellow sister in Christ.



It's not a philosophy, it's 'Life'...  

The beauty of this is that the most gracious form of Grace is with this woman and for her baby.   

She is now being given the Grace of growing in God; growing in God and knowing Him in a way beyond she's ever known Him.    If this doesn't bring her closer to depending upon the Lord, than something else in this life surely will. 

There's a time in each of our lives when 'something' has to get our attention and bring us to knees and allow God and only God to bring us through.   The very fact that she's suing this Ministry is telling where her relationship with God is.  She hasn't taken the blame for her own actions, she blaming them instead.   She has admitted both verbally and by her actions that she does not share their same views on morality.  This is 'telling' where she is spiritually. 

Let this woman grow; let her grow in God in a way that she will know who her God and who her true Redeemer is.   God will use the most likely and the most unlikely situations to get our attention.   Jonah, Job, Joseph (in Genesis), were thrown into the most unlikely circumstances and they each came through the fire and grew closer to God as a result.   

Adam and Eve for they too were cast out from the Garden and had to learn from what they did.  Adam was commanded to toil and survive by the sweat of his brow; Eve to bear children in pain.   Yet they grew...babies and all. 

None of this has any link to any lack of Christian charity or lack of God's love and compassion.    It's Grace being poured upon her to grow.  

Jesus is right there waiting for her to surrender and submit herself into His care and His will for her life.   

Let this woman grow and be set free from what got her 'where she is now' in the first place.   Otherwise, she'll always think someone owes her something and she will always resort to bitterness and strife when she feels she's been dealt wrong.

Let her grow.  It's the most precious of Grace's that one can ever receive. 

I've been there and back...so have many, many MANY others.  This is her time to know who God really is in her life... God isn't going to forsake her or drop her... He's right there to uphold her.  Let her grow.


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## dicapr (Apr 14, 2012)

menina said:


> i understand what you're saying.
> 
> even though we receive grace and mercy from God, there are still consequences for our actions while we live on this earth.
> 
> her fiance can still work and i'm sure people will be charitable to her for the sake of the child.



That is not what I am talking about.  I have no doubt that God has extended her grace and mercy. I am asking about her brothers and sisters in Christ.  Where is the grace and mercy extended to her. They have kicked her out on her behind expecting some other Christian to extend mercy and kindness to her as if it is not their duty.  No one is saying there is no consequence, but is it necessary to always prosecute to the full extent of the law? It reminds me of the parable where the man owed his king a lot of money and begged for forgiveness. The king forgave the servant a large debt of money.  The man then went and harassed his fellow servant for a small sum of money.  In the end the servant who was forgiven was stripped of everything because he failed to pass on the mercy and grace extended to him.  I think some Christians forget that.  They are so worried about enforcing right and wrong they forget they have another duty.  We are not to ignore or condone wrong but justice should be handed out with mercy.  Not by someone else, not by another church member, but by each and everyone of us.  If not we are that servant forgiven much who forgets to pass along that gift.  I do not intend to be stripped of my gracious gifts from the Father because I fail to extend grace to others.

Many of you in this thread are fully persuaded in your minds that justice is first and only God is responsible for giving grace.  There is nothing I can do.  I just know it is required of me to pass along the Grace given to me.  I cannot be that servant.  I do not believe that their are not consequences for our actions.  What I do not believe is that justice cannot tempered with justice. 

 I would have personally liked to see the teacher suspended without pay until she was married.  She should have also had a formal letter of discipline placed in her records and placed on probation.  She should not be allowed to coach any after school social clubs.  All of these actions would show that here action was unacceptable while extending mercy and grace.  We do not always have to bring someone to their knees in order to discipline.  

As for her FH, didn't the article say that he was unemployed and unable to find a job and that is why they had put the wedding on hold?  If he couldn't find a job in all of this time why do we expect him to find employment now?  Or are we once again expecting God to extend mercy where her fellow man would not?


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## dicapr (Apr 14, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> It's not a philosophy, it's 'Life'...
> 
> The beauty of this is that the most gracious form of Grace is with this woman and for her baby.
> 
> ...




Shimmie, your examples prove my point about grace and mercy.  Adam and Eve were indeed kicked out of the garden and made to toil.  However, their sentence was death!  Mercy and Grace began and was extended when the first sin was committed.  Adam and Eve should have been struck down after eating from the tree.  Instead, God came in the cool of the evening to talk with them and sentence them to a less harsh sentence.  Although their bodies began to die in that very day he did not end their life or the race of mankind for their transgression-which was justified in his word.  Instead, he opted for hard labor instead of the death penalty.  Where you see justice I see grace.  

And as I said before, you are projecting so much into this woman's situation and her spiritual state.  You have no idea about whether she has prayed, gone to her pastor, is repentant ect.  She may have vowed to stop sleeping with FH only to find out she was pregnant the next month. We just don't know. You assume that her being fired will lead her to these places that she may have already been.  A unwed Christian mother can hide her pregnancy even when her job is not at risk.  I had a friend do the same and her job was not at risk.  It was pure shame at the fact that she had fallen.


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## Sweet C (Apr 14, 2012)

I guess I am trying to understand this discrepancy between grace and justice.  This woman based on the article is not showing any signs of repentance.  her first thought is they cant do this to me.  its illegal.  She is trying to sue the school instead of being honest about the fact that she made decisions that caused her position to be terminated.  i honestly believe the school did show her grace by even offering to go through mediation, which they did not have to do, but according to the article mediation fell apart due to the fact that she wanted a settlement.  So to sum it up, I want money from you to pay for my decision to sin.   Im sorry how is that biblical?

God shows us grace everyday.  I thank him for it.  I pray that this woman and her fiance truly repent, marry, and continue on with their lives instead of trying to drag a christian school in the mud for their decision.  As believers, we must understand that even though God is forgiving and loving, our choice sometimes don't fully remove all the consequences from our sin.   Moses' consequence for being disobedient to God was that he couldn't enter the promise land.  Instead of being upset and bitter at God for that decision, he kept on being a standard for the children of Israel in spite of the consequences and fulfilled his purpose by leading them to the promise land.


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## Galadriel (Apr 14, 2012)

dicapr said:


> I agree that the school is with their legal rights. But the higher morality that we as Christians are held to is what is at issue here.  Yes it is legally right but is it morally right?  Somehow I have trouble envisioning Christ throw out a woman and her child because she made a mistake even though she admitted fault.  As someone pointed out earlier she could have secretly wed and covered up her sin but yet she chose to come clean.  I just can't say I feel right morally about their decision.



I don't think the school is at moral fault for actually adhering to the contract and standard that it required its teachers to adhere to. Say for instance she began teaching her students that God doesn't exist, etc. and the school fired her--would we be talking about a "higher morality" to keep her employed? 

She broke contract, of her own choice and doing, and now she must accept the consequences that come with that. The higher morality should go with her fiance who should step up and be a REAL man and marry her, and who should've actually respected her and waited until she was his wife. We often talk about in the single parent/mother threads how the guy goes free--well let's put daddy on the hook...let him be responsible for his fiancee and child and stop trying to make a school or institution the daddy.


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2012)

Galadriel said:


> I don't think the school is at moral fault for actually adhering to the contract and standard that it required its teachers to adhere to. Say for instance she began teaching her students that God doesn't exist, etc. and the school fired her--would we be talking about a "higher morality" to keep her employed?
> 
> She broke contract, of her own choice and doing, and now she must accept the consequences that come with that.
> 
> ...



*WARNING....​*
*Serious Sincere Compliment Ahead*​
Lemme tell you something and I have a reason for saying this because it's extremely important to put it out there as such.   

You speak a lot of Wisdom in your posts/threads.   A whole lot.  I read and I do indeed take heed.   It has nothing to do with *one's denomination*, it's the Godly wisdom that prevails and this you have not failed to display when it comes to God's principles.   

There are times when we have to peel back the surface and see / hear what God is saying / doing underneath.

I pray that I have not offended anyone.  If so, I apologize and do so with my heart.


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2012)

dicapr said:


> Shimmie, your examples prove my point about grace and mercy.  Adam and Eve were indeed kicked out of the garden and made to toil.  However, their sentence was death!  Mercy and Grace began and was extended when the first sin was committed.  Adam and Eve should have been struck down after eating from the tree.  Instead, God came in the cool of the evening to talk with them and sentence them to a less harsh sentence.  Although their bodies began to die in that very day he did not end their life or the race of mankind for their transgression-which was justified in his word.  Instead, he opted for hard labor instead of the death penalty.  Where you see justice I see grace.
> 
> And as I said before, you are projecting so much into this woman's situation and her spiritual state.  You have no idea about whether she has prayed, gone to her pastor, is repentant ect.  She may have vowed to stop sleeping with FH only to find out she was pregnant the next month. We just don't know. You assume that her being fired will lead her to these places that she may have already been.  A unwed Christian mother can hide her pregnancy even when her job is not at risk.  I had a friend do the same and her job was not at risk.  It was pure shame at the fact that she had fallen.



God walked with Adam in the cool of the day, 'before' the fall, which truly made it questionable why Adam who was that close to God would not have known better to take of the fruit offered to him by Eve.....  

Hmmmmmmm....   One who Knows better...... yet yields to 'free will'... like this woman ? ? ?  

Oh and like this woman, Adam blames God for Eve... ('the woman that you gave me...') just like this woman is blaming the school for her own free will and the consequences which followed.   

Like the Garden dismissal... the School, has to dismiss the woman because of her free will sin, of which she knew better 'beforehand' and chose otherwise. 

Anyway,

The school didn't drop her as a hot potato or as an outcast.  They extended much grace 'afterwards', to her which she refused.  

When do you get it?   Where's the 'father's' responsibility?  If this woman was repentent,  it would show in her actions, which is showing that she has not taken responsibilty for her consequences and neither is the father of her child.  

The word of God is clear that a man who does not take care of his own is worse than an infidel.  

The school although NOT responsible DID offer GRACE to her... she refused it.  

It's quite understandable that you feel badly for this woman's situation.  We ALL do and without a shadow of a doubt, I truly believe the school does as well.  But she is not who they have to answer to.   She is not their obligation.  She has other options but chooses, once again, to make a bad decision which is placing the blame of her actions on those who are not the blame.    

Sooner or later she has to wake up and see who's really the blame and act upon it.  The man is whom she should be putting the pressure upon... the man whose seed she bears in her belly.  The man she gave her virtue to.  The man she chose to put above God AND her job... knowing the risks that were ahead.   

God is her Provider, not the school.  Once she gets this...she'll never lack in any area of her life that God won't provide for her.  

For the record I'm not at odds with you.   You feel the way you feel.  So from this point we agree to disagree and move on in peace.


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## Galadriel (Apr 14, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> *WARNING....​*
> 
> *Serious Sincere Compliment Ahead*​
> Lemme tell you something and I have a reason for saying this because it's extremely important to put it out there as such.
> ...




You know I love you!


----------



## dicapr (Apr 14, 2012)

Your right Shimmie.  We will have to agree to disagree.  I don't think I understand Christianity sometimes.  I think it is time once again for me to remove myself from the Christian forums I frequent and spend time in my bible.  We are all sincere and looking to live how God wants us to.  However, I increasingly find myself at odds with how other Christians believe our faith should be practiced.  It is time for me to once again go to God and ask for his direction.  Maybe it is just my gift that I have a soft heart and I am quick to forgive.  All I know is that my spirit is troubled by many things being applied to being a "Christian" lately-not just this thread.  I believe that the enemy is trying to discourage me with things being said on this and other Christian forums.  Through no fault of anyone I am taking a break.  I may read but I will not be commenting anymore.


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2012)

dicapr said:


> Your right Shimmie.  We will have to agree to disagree.  I don't think I understand Christianity sometimes.  I think it is time once again for me to remove myself from the Christian forums I frequent and spend time in my bible.  We are all sincere and looking to live how God wants us to.  However, I increasingly find myself at odds with how other Christians believe our faith should be practiced.  It is time for me to once again go to God and ask for his direction.  Maybe it is just my gift that I have a soft heart and I am quick to forgive.  All I know is that my spirit is troubled by many things being applied to being a "Christian" lately-not just this thread.  I believe that the enemy is trying to discourage me with things being said on this and other Christian forums.  Through no fault of anyone I am taking a break.  I may read but I will not be commenting anymore.



I understand.   Maybe we as the Body will be able come to understand what each of us mean, when we share our hearts about something and truly understand where each are trying to convey without  discord or misunderstanding. 

I mean it when I say I have no odds against you.  I wish only the best for you, spirit, soul and body.   :Rose:


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## MzRhonda (Apr 15, 2012)

Laela said:


> That's the root of the matter right there...and I guess what has been bothering me. She is angry with _their _decision and hasn't even accepted any of her footprint in all this. *It's ALL the school's fault*..them and that "morality clause" of theirs..



That is a problem we have - it is always someone else's fault...we look to blame others and sue them never accepting and taking responsibility for our own actions. I see it in the public schools with students behavior,lack of respect and not following rules - never any real consequences for their actions so they feel they can continue in life not following the rules.

How old is this teacher?


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2012)

MzRhonda said:


> That is a problem we have - it is always someone else's fault...we look to blame others and sue them never accepting and taking responsibility for our own actions. I see it in the public schools with students behavior,lack of respect and not following rules - never any real consequences for their actions so they feel they can continue in life not following the rules.
> 
> How old is this teacher?



She's 29.   I hope the man (the baby's father) isn't a 'brother'...


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## LuvlyLife (Apr 15, 2012)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Ugh I am just soooo angry when I hear these things. I just want to scream. Losing your job because you got pregnant really sucks. BUUUUT she doesn't have a case since she signed an agreement. So she is kinda up a creek without a paddle. She can't argue her beliefs against a signed agreement. A "Morality Clause" has so much berth. You can call anything "immoral" these days.... You don't need scripture quotes and a reminder of the commandments to see she is out of gas....
> It just really really sucks.
> 
> Hmmmm....too bad they didn't fire those priests back in the day when they were molesting those kids....Surely this too is immoral......even back then they were still firing women who got pregnant out of wedlock...that's nothing new....They were able to keep their jobs without worry. I guess they are not going to sweep her under a rug like they did those priests....JMHO.


Exactly, they are super hard on the women but the men get a pass. So sad!


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2012)

Onivana said:


> Exactly, they are super hard on the women but the men get a pass. So sad!



In too many cases, it's the woman's fault, namely this one where the woman doesn't place the responsibility where it truly belongs.  

Disclaimer:  I'm not speaking of 'all' women. 

In this case, she needs to put pressure on the man who got her pregnant instead of someone else who's not responsible.     No man should be able to 'slide', yet it's too many of the women who have allowed 'them' to do so.

It looks like the 'men' are getting by from both sides... a weak society and the women they've taken advantage of.     It's a mess.


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## MonPetite (Apr 15, 2012)

.....................


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2012)

LittleGoldenLamb said:


> I'm a little confused here, by your post.
> 
> Are you saying it's a woman's job to make a man be a man...or a woman's job to not lay with a man-boy?
> 
> ...



Let's be real and I'm not going to 'sugar-coat' it.   Women need to make men step-up and not take the crumbs or empty excuses which are handed to them.

Yes, the men are supposed to teach the men, but how many of them are growing up with men to do just that.   

It's a woman's place to not allow a man to use her or to not step up to his responsibility.  Whatever a woman 'allows' a man to do, he will do it and continue to do it unless she puts a stop to it.  

Women are not that weak and have no reason to be.  I'm as feminine and as girly girl as they come, yet I will not be disrespected or dogged over.    

Too many women put up with foolishness because of 'fear' of not having a man in their lives or they've been conditioned to think that they have to put up with whatever a man does.  

In the case with this woman in this thread article, why is she not putting the pressure upon her 'man' as opposed to suing a Ministry.   More than likely she's allowing him to slide rather than step up and provide.   Time and again I've witnessed this syndrome with women and the father or fathers of their children.  Let the 'state' take care of what he won't.  

I'm not arguing with you, so what I've said is not contention.  It's a reality.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 16, 2012)

dicapr said:


> Your right Shimmie. We will have to agree to disagree. I don't think I understand Christianity sometimes. I think it is time once again for me to remove myself from the Christian forums I frequent and spend time in my bible. We are all sincere and looking to live how God wants us to. However, I increasingly find myself at odds with how other Christians believe our faith should be practiced. It is time for me to once again go to God and ask for his direction. Maybe it is just my gift that I have a soft heart and I am quick to forgive. All I know is that my spirit is troubled by many things being applied to being a "Christian" lately-not just this thread. I believe that the enemy is trying to discourage me with things being said on this and other Christian forums. Through no fault of anyone I am taking a break. I may read but I will not be commenting anymore.


@dicapr
I know you're not commenting but I did want to point to one thing...maybe two lol

Gods grace and mercy are selective. The Bible says that He shows mercy to whom he chooses to show mercy. So one person may commit fornication and get pregnant and get AIDS and another may do the same and get neither. But we trust that God is fair, just and good and so His choices to extend mercy/grace are based on his goodness. The same goes for us. We also choose who we extend mercy and grace to and who we dont. Thats called being mature in Christ...being able to discern good and evil, what to do and what not to do. Every criminal in jail should not be extended the mercy of freedom, every homeless person you meet will not be the beneficiary of every extra cent in your bank account etc., your children (if you have them) will not always escape punishment when they disobey.

I believe that just as you pointed out that we do not know the state of repentance etc. of this woman we also have to say that we do not know the process the school went through. 

Its possible that others have been fired for solid proof of fornication and they want to uphold the fairness of having equal consequences. 

Also, in similar situations there will be consequences with other employees that they are not responsible for either. For example, if a teacher is caught in adultery with another teacher...should they both be fired? If the woman is pregnant then should she not be fired? What if the man has children at home and this will cause them to lose their health insurance? Don't fire him either? Does the state of repentance matter? If the prgnant woman caught in adultery is vocal about nothing being wrong with it...then should she be fired? If a woman is pregnant and switches religions, should she be fired? (Im assuming that there is somehting in the contract about being Christian lol). These are all questions that the school board may have discussed again and again. (I know HR is always makig sure they have policies and explanations etc.) They may have prayed about this situation and made a decision. Im just saying that we cant accuse them of not being merciful because they upheld the full consequences of the contract rather than suspension as some may feel is more called for.

I guess what many are saying is that when you sin...you should expect consequences and should not expect for people to automatically extend mercy to you (though you can pray for that). And you cannot fault someone for applying full consequences to your actions.


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## SummerSolstice (Apr 16, 2012)

this happened at the school I worked at. She agreed with them.


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## FlyyBohemian (Apr 16, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:
			
		

> this happened at the school I worked at. She agreed with them.



That's a real woman.


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## MonPetite (Apr 16, 2012)

....................................


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## Supergirl (Apr 16, 2012)

This bothers me, because she could have easily gotten out of this situation with an abortion, which is the coward way out (I speak from experience just fyi). Instead, she chose the courageous thing and to literally "bare her sin" in front of the world.


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2012)

LittleGoldenLamb said:


> I hear you, but the truth is a woman can't really "make a man step up" or put "pressure" on him to do something he truly wants to do. That's reality also.
> 
> We blame her for the actions of another individual. Society and the church, it seems, loves to blame women for the actions of other adult individuals.
> 
> ...



I came in only to give you this... 



Cause I have way too many posts in this thread....    

If I haven't made my point by now....    

I love you, Precious Lamb...  

I will say this and I want to close my view.

I've had it with so many attacks against the Church.  This is where I stand.  If one looks behind this woman's actions, what she's saying is that Christians have no right to stand for what's right.   That we have to bend like wet noodles and bow to the ground to the world.     

Daniel, and the three Hebrew children were the perfect examples who refused to bow and worship the idols and the gods of the world.    This is where I stand.   I refuse to bow to weaken standards; if we don't take a stand, then we only weaken ourselves against further attacks which are sure to come.  

I think......... I'm done in this thread.       I hear cheers in the background....


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2012)

Supergirl said:


> This bothers me, because she could have easily gotten out of this situation with an abortion, which is the coward way out (I speak from experience just fyi). Instead, she chose the courageous thing and to literally "bare her sin" in front of the world.


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## Kindheart (Apr 17, 2012)

Supergirl said:


> This bothers me, because she could have easily gotten out of this situation with an abortion, which is the coward way out (I speak from experience just fyi). Instead, she chose the courageous thing and to literally "bare her sin" in front of the world.


Wouldn't that be against the Word too ?
The HUGE contraddiction to me is this :If God is the one who give us the gift of life,how can being pregnant be a Sin at any point? Is carrying a child a "punishment" if so doesn't that condraddict ,life being a gift of God ?
If He doesn't have power over our decision then He can't decide our future choices .


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## CoilyFields (Apr 17, 2012)

Kindheart said:


> Wouldn't that be against the Word too ?
> The HUGE contraddiction to me is this :If God is the one who give us the gift of life,how can being pregnant be a Sin at any point? Is carrying a child a "punishment" if so doesn't that condraddict ,life being a gift of God ?
> If He doesn't have power over our decision then He can't decide our future choices .


 
Being pregnant isnt a sin. Having sex before marriage is the sin. Abortion is a sin.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 17, 2012)

Supergirl said:


> This bothers me, because she could have easily gotten out of this situation with an abortion, which is the coward way out (I speak from experience just fyi). Instead, she chose the courageous thing and to literally "bare her sin" in front of the world.


 
I doubt that she chose to have the child as a sort of "punishment" to herself. I _only_ say this because in the article she is defending her "right" to do what is morally wrong as opposed to coming from a stance of repentance and wanting to be restored based off of that.


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## Kindheart (Apr 17, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> Being pregnant isnt a sin. Having sex before marriage is the sin. Abortion is a sin.


 
If it's a sin why God allow women to get pregnant OOW and reward them with a blessing (baby)?


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## CoilyFields (Apr 17, 2012)

Kindheart said:


> If it's a sin why God allow women to get pregnant OOW and reward them with a blessing (baby)?


 

I wont pretend to have an explanation on how God chooses who will become pregnant etc. But the Bible says that He shows grace and mercy on whom _he_ chooses and it will rain on the just as well as the unjust. Sinners/Unebelivers/Athiests are all the recipients of good things as well as believers (health, success in business, children, money etc.). 

Some babies are even born that are products or rape...that doesnt make the baby bad or sinful...it was the conditions under which conception happened that constituted the sin. God has His own purposes for what He does and what He allows.


When Job questioned God, God _straight went off_ on him for like *4* chapters lol! 
Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm. He said: 
 Job 38:*2* “Who is this that obscures my plans 
   with words without knowledge? 


Job 40:1 “Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? 
   Let him who accuses God answer him!” 

These verses just show that God has his own plans and He may reveal parts to us but we dont have the _right_ to know.


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## Lucia (Apr 17, 2012)

Kindheart said:


> Wouldn't that be against the Word too ?
> The HUGE contraddiction to me is this :If God is the one who give us the gift of life,how can being pregnant be a Sin at any point? Is carrying a child a "punishment" if so doesn't that condraddict ,life being a gift of God ?
> If He doesn't have power over our decision then He can't decide our future choices .




It's called free will and no one can touch or change it not even God 
God could have created us to flollow him blindly wihout question and obey but he loved us so much he wanted us to choose Him  or not walk righteously or sin and serve demons and Satan. So great is his love that he loves us the way we are sins and all. 
So people can choose to follow the word or their own. Just like a teen can either choose to follow the rules and obey heir parents or rebel. 
Now that's free will you have the chance to do whatever you want whenever you want Even if it leads you into sin. but you will suffer the consequences regardless of whether you repented or not that's just the law of nature. 
Every action causes an effect or Newtons 1st law 
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction 
This woman did choose to have premarital sex while in a Christian school she's an educator minister and should understand the damage that can do to youn minds and Think of the effect a pregnant teacher without a husband has. It says to a the girls hey it's ok give into some guy even if he's not fully committed or will ever commit. 
it also tells the boys hey you can get yours and don't have to step up and take care of your responsibilities as a christian man. 
She didn't do this alone as they say it takes 2 to tango so he's as much to blame and I say more cause a cristian man who is preparing to be a husband IS the leader and thus bears more blame for leading his wife family astray.
ETA
We're talking Christian school but any religious school
Would have bounced her out even a non religious private prep school would have fired her on the same principal of being a bad influence role model.


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## Laela (Apr 17, 2012)

Having an abortion (murder) is no better... it's also a sin that carries its own consequences.... she could've risk losing her life with the procedure or develop complications that could keep her from having children later or even suffer mental distraught in the after math. Either way, there are consequences for either choice. We're trying to disassociate the consequence of a sin from the sin itself and we don't have the power to do that. In this case, a lost job.

It's unfortunate some believe there is judgement against this person...but it is she who is letting everyone know she doesn't agree with the consequences of her own sin. I'm sure she'll get the love and support she needs concerning the baby.. the pregnancy itself is not a sin, the fornication was. God's Grace and Mercy could be in His allowing the baby to be conceived, for whatever that child's purpose is!

How are we to determine if her unborn child fares better if she keeps her job? What does one have to do with the other. True, we don't know the full story and we certainly don't know if she's out on the street, unemployed..she may already have a job lined up or is in a good position anyway. It just sounds to me like she is being defiant.





Supergirl said:


> This bothers me, because she could have easily gotten out of this situation with an abortion, which is the coward way out (I speak from experience just fyi). Instead, she chose the courageous thing and to literally "bare her sin" in front of the world.


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## Laela (Apr 17, 2012)

Free will... God won't interfere or make a choice for us....the pregancy is not a sin. Children are a heritage from the Lord... I believe God's Grace and Mercy can apply in a pregnancy, regardless of how the child was conceived. He knows whom to give children to and for what reason...no so much it was a "reward" in some cases, as it is to benefit the parents.  I have seen children turn a person's life around or make them more loving, better people 







Kindheart said:


> If it's a sin why God allow women to get pregnant OOW and reward them with a blessing (baby)?


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## SummerSolstice (Apr 17, 2012)

Kindheart said:


> If it's a sin why God allow women to get pregnant OOW and reward them with a blessing (baby)?



The circumstance around the child (the blessing) is often filled with consequences...


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## auparavant (Apr 17, 2012)

Kindheart said:


> Wouldn't that be against the Word too ?
> The HUGE contraddiction to me is this :If God is the one who give us the gift of life,how can being pregnant be a Sin at any point? Is carrying a child a "punishment" if so doesn't that condraddict ,life being a gift of God ?
> If He doesn't have power over our decision then He can't decide our future choices .



Pregnancy isn't the sin, it's misuse of sex outside the marital relationship that is sin.  Sex isn't a sin, it's the misuse, mis-timing of it.  That's the sinful act.  Pregnancy is the result of sex.  Temporal punishments etc. are the result of sex outside marriage.  Having a baby is biology.  She signed a morality agreement with the religious school promising to uphold those values and she didn't.  The negative effects of her and his action resulting in pregnancy weigh against the impressionable minds she is teaching.  A religious school is an extension of the family environment and it's acceptance of that moral code.  If the teacher is not in line with the moral code, the community is broken and opposite values are being demonstrated and taught, even inadvertently.  BAbies are precious as they are life.  That is never the sin.


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## DDTexlaxed (Apr 17, 2012)

She knew the penalty yet failed to listen. Sometimes you have to live with the consequences of your actions. How could this woman teach about the morality of living as a Christian when she didn't apply God's Word to herself?


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## Supergirl (Apr 17, 2012)

Kindheart said:


> Wouldn't that be against the Word too ?
> The HUGE contraddiction to me is this :If God is the one who give us the gift of life,how can being pregnant be a Sin at any point? Is carrying a child a "punishment" if so doesn't that condraddict ,life being a gift of God ?
> If He doesn't have power over our decision then He can't decide our future choices .





CoilyFields said:


> I doubt that she chose to have the child as a sort of "punishment" to herself. I _only_ say this because in the article she is defending her "right" to do what is morally wrong as opposed to coming from a stance of repentance and wanting to be restored based off of that.





Laela said:


> Having an abortion (murder) is no better... it's also a sin that carries its own consequences.... she could've risk losing her life with the procedure or develop complications that could keep her from having children later or even suffer mental distraught in the after math. Either way, there are consequences for either choice. We're trying to disassociate the consequence of a sin from the sin itself and we don't have the power to do that. In this case, a lost job.
> 
> It's unfortunate some believe there is judgement against this person...but it is she who is letting everyone know she doesn't agree with the consequences of her own sin. I'm sure she'll get the love and support she needs concerning the baby.. the pregnancy itself is not a sin, the fornication was. God's Grace and Mercy could be in His allowing the baby to be conceived, for whatever that child's purpose is!
> 
> How are we to determine if her unborn child fares better if she keeps her job? What does one have to do with the other. True, we don't know the full story and we certainly don't know if she's out on the street, unemployed..she may already have a job lined up or is in a good position anyway. It just sounds to me like she is being defiant.



Right ladies! That's what I'm saying--an abortion would have been worse. So the perspective I'm taking is that doing a worse thing (abortion) would have totally gotten her off the hook with her job. So women in the future that work for organizations that will fire them for OOW pregnancies might feel that abortion is the better option. I think that companies that fire women for OOW pregnancies are indirectly encouraging abortions. 

By the way (this may have been discussed), I wonder how organizations like this handle it when a male employee impregnates someone OOW.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 18, 2012)

Supergirl said:


> Right ladies! That's what I'm saying--an abortion would have been worse. So the perspective I'm taking is that doing a worse thing (abortion) would have totally gotten her off the hook with her job. So women in the future that work for organizations that will fire them for OOW pregnancies might feel that abortion is the better option. I think that companies that fire women for OOW pregnancies are indirectly encouraging abortions.
> 
> By the way (this may have been discussed), I wonder how organizations like this handle it when a male employee impregnates someone OOW.


 
I dont think this would encourage abortion. You don't "excuse" one sin because it's not as bad as another. You dont lower the standard out of fear that people will not adhere to it (to whatever extreme).  We sin when we are tempted and drawn away by our own lusts...so I can't say a right and moral law (Gods law) _caused_ me to sin. I did it cause thats what I wanted to do. 

And if what you say is the case...then what should the school do? Allow sin to settle in the camp because at least it might prevent someone from doing a "bigger" sin?

 Also, the sin was fornication...pregnancy was a sign of the unquestionable presence of that sin.  So even if she had had an abortion the school should have fired her (because erasing the proof doesn't erase the sin). 

I would expect that organizations like this would do the same thing to a man who impregnates someone oow. I gave the earlier example of a church I know where (recently) one of the paid musicians was sat down because he got his girlfriend pregnant. They are planning to get married soon but that does not eradicate the sin of fornication and I dont know how long he will be suspended (or maybe its permanant).


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## LucieLoo12 (Apr 18, 2012)

People pick what they want to "feel sorry"...If this lady was fired over drug use, or something of that nature, people would be like "She deserves it". But what they dont see is her act of fornication is just as injurious as any other crime, because of the message and effects it has on the students. This isn't about what we feel is right , its about the word of God, its about how this effects the children and what message it sends to them.


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## MonPetite (Apr 19, 2012)

.........................


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## Shimmie (Apr 19, 2012)

LittleGoldenLamb said:


> I'd still like to know what some morality-clause schools do to men who work there and get  a woman pregnant OOW.
> 
> Do they get fired as often? Does anyone have links or articles about this?



As of the last several years... the news is full of politicians, pastors, and the like who have been 'dropped' from high places due to their sexual exploits.   And yes *including Eddie Long * who has not gotten off scott free.  Although he is self appointed, his status has plommented and his supporters are falling in numbers.   Men aren't getting away with anything.   

I applaude the men who are upright without scandal and those who have admitted their wrong BEFORE public and private awareness and have stepped down on their own to get things right.


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## MonPetite (Apr 20, 2012)

..................


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## Laela (Apr 20, 2012)

It boggles my mind... Christians who say they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ... should already have a moral compass -- He is the Holy Spirit. We are supposed to be ONE in the Spirit.

We shouldn't have to depend on a piece of paper or contract to live a certain way...that should already be a way of life, according to the Word of God. Granted we make mistakes and we may offend the Father unknowingly, but the Word of God should trump any Morality Clause.


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## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2012)

Laela said:


> It boggles my mind... Christians who say they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ... should already have a moral compass -- He is the Holy Spirit. We are supposed to be ONE in the Spirit.
> 
> We shouldn't have to depend on a piece of paper or contract to live a certain way...that should already be a way of life, according to the Word of God. Granted we make mistakes and we may offend the Father unknowingly, but the Word of God should trump any Morality Clause.



Laela I agree and take this to heart.   Why has it come to making this necessary?   Whatever happen to doing right because it's simply the right thing to do?    

The problem is that folks are not committed to living right for God; they take His Grace and mercies for granted.   This is what morality has come to... signing a contract to keep folks on track


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