# Colorado Family Struggled With Debt Before Husband's Arrest In Wife And Daughters' Killing



## Leeda.the.Paladin

Chris and Shanann Watts detailed their life on social media. They shared photos of beach vacations to San Diego and screengrabs of lovey-dovey text messages. They gushed about their daughters, Bella and Celeste, and posted photos of the little girls' gap-toothed grins and funny dances.

"Happy Husband Appreciation Day! I couldn't imagine a better man for us," Shanann Watts wrote next to their photo in April. 
"You spoil us with love an(d) attention! You put up with 3 impatient, demanding women in the house," she continued. "You work so hard everyday to provide for us. I love you so much."
Four months after Shanann Watts posted that photo, her husband sits in a jail in Colorado, suspected of killing her, along with Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3.


The mother, who was pregnant, and daughters vanished Monday from their suburban Denver home. Their bodies were found Thursday at the site of the petroleum company where Chris Watts once worked, authorities said.
Chris Watts, 33, was arrested in connection with their deaths but has not been formally charged. He's next due in court Tuesday.
Authorities have not suggested a motive in the killing.






Shanann Watts is pictured with her two daughters, Bella and Celeste.
*Couple files for bankruptcy in 2015*
As stunned friends and neighbors ask how the story of a couple that seemed so picture perfect could end so tragically, bankruptcy filings reveal a family that had struggled financially.
Chris and Shanann Watts filed for bankruptcy in June 2015, according to documents in the court record. That was after they bought their house, an asset valued at $400,000, records show.
The year prior to the bankruptcy filing, the couple had a combined income of $91,000 -- most of it earned by Chris Watts, who made about $63,000 from his job at Anadarko Petroleum, records show. The rest was earned by Shanann Watts, who worked in 2014 at Children's Hospital Colorado.










*[paste:font size="5"]*
*
Video shows CO mom tell husband about pregnancy 01:52
Still, they were about $70,000 in debt, most of it from student loans and credit card purchases, according to the filings. The couple reported two savings accounts with a total of $9.51 and a joint checking account with $864.
By all accounts, they appeared to have moved past that, with Shanann Watts posting numerous times this year about her new job at a lifestyle company. She was also 15 weeks pregnant with a son the couple planned to name Niko, her brother, Frankie Rzucek, posted on Facebook. 
"Little peanut!! Lover her/him already!!" her husband texted back in June when she sent him a photo of her ultrasound picture, according to a screengrab she posted on Facebook.*
*Some victims may have been strangled[/paste:font]
Documents filed Friday in Chris Watts' arrest reveal some of the victims may have been strangled, along with other grim details.
Shanann Watts and her daughters appear to have been killed at their house in Frederick, Colorado, a town of about 8,600 people some 30 miles north of Denver, prosecutors have said.





Chris Watts
Chris Watts' attorneys asked a court Friday to require pathologists conducting autopsies to swab the little girls' necks and hands for DNA, court filings show.
In a second motion, obtained by CNN affiliate KDVR, defense attorneys asked the court to compel the coroner's office to look for DNA under the mother's fingernails and on her hands.
Defense attorneys did not say why they made those requests. They also asked the court to allow defense expert Richard Eikelenboom to take swabs from the bodies.
It's not clear whether a judge ordered the coroner's officer to swab for DNA. The first motion was filed 20 minutes before the autopsies were scheduled to begin, documents show.
The cause of death for each family member is still pending while medical investigators wait on test results, the Frederick Police Department said.
Little girls found in an oil well




Some members of Colorado family may have been strangled, court documents reveal
Shanann Watts' body was found on the property of Anadarko Petroleum, authorities said. And the girls' bodies were in an "oil well filled with crude oil for several days," Chris Watts' attorneys indicated in a court filing. 
A company spokeswoman confirmed that Chris Watts used to work there but declined to say when his employment ended or what role he served.
Watts was arrested on three counts of first-degree murder and three counts of tampering with a human body, a Weld County District Court judge said Thursday. He is being held at a county jail north of Denver, and prosecutors have until Monday to formally charge him.
A judge sealed the arrest affidavit, which might have provided information about a possible motive or other details.
Chris Watts describes 'emotional conversation'
In an interview Tuesday -- after his family disappeared but before his arrest -- Chris Watts said his wife got home from a business trip about 2 a.m. Monday.




Hours before his arrest, Chris Watts pleaded for his family's return
"We had an emotional conversation, I'll leave it at that," Watts told a reporter who asked whether they'd argued. "I just want them back. I just want them to come back."
Watts said he left for work about 5:15 a.m. that day and wasn't concerned when his wife didn't respond to his texts and phone calls, since she'd just returned from out of town.
But he grew worried, he said, when one of her friends contacted him around noon and said she wasn't responding to messages.
"I walked in the house and -- nothing," Chris Watts told KMGH. "She wasn't here. The kids weren't here."*


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## Leeda.the.Paladin

Another example of how you cant get “in your feelings” about what you see on social media. People are sometimes hiding some very dark lives.  How very sad that this husband and father did such a heinous thing to his family.


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## Theresamonet

He looked so guilty in that interview he did. May as well have just confessed right then. 

So tired of people on social media going on about how shocking this is because he looks so “normal”.  These “normal” looking white men have been butchering, strangling, stabbing, poisoning folks to death since forever. When will people get a clue? He fits the description of the average wife and child killer.

Also, I don’t understand people’s need to make the world think they are living a perfect life via social media. If what her friends say is true, and she was gearing up to leave her husband, why make and post all those videos about how he is the worlds greatest husband? I don’t get it. People close to her must have known the truth. Her friend reported her missing the same day she dropped her off, after she stopped responding to calls and texts.


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## lesedi

I think people get caught up trying to tick 'life boxes' that they don't stop to think whether these are choices that fulfil them and truly make them happy.


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## nysister

Well said! I don't know if it was noted above but she told a friend she thought he might be unfaithful.

Let's see a nice looking man with a mortgage he can't pay for, two little girls and a wife carrying their third child involved in what seems to be an MLM.

That's a Lifetime movie waiting to happen, he was trying to find a way to start a new life with a younger, cuter woman without children and not have to make child support or mortgage payments. I could have seen that coming a mile away.

What an evil man. It's horrible enough to kill your wife, but your 3 kids too? Vile.

eta. He became too used to that bachelor life when she was away with the kids for 5/6 weeks.



Theresamonet said:


> He looked so guilty in that interview he did. May as well have just confessed right then.
> 
> So tired of people on social media going on about how shocking this is because he looks so “normal”.  These “normal” looking white men have been butchering, strangling, stabbing, poisoning folks to death since forever. When will people get a clue? He fits the description of the average wife and child killer.
> 
> Also, I don’t understand people’s need to make the world think they are living a perfect life via social media. If what her friends say is true, and she was gearing up to leave her husband, why make and post all those videos about how he is the worlds greatest husband? I don’t get it. People close to her must have known the truth. Her friend reported her missing the same day she dropped her off, after she stopped responding to calls and texts.


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## nysister

I'm always wary of people that post the "I love them so much" posts on SM. In many cases I've seen it be just the opposite in their lives.

In more than just this case, I find that 'those that do, have no need to say'.


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## OhTall1

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> Another example of how you cant get “in your feelings” about what you see on social media. People are sometimes hiding some very dark lives.  How very sad that this husband and father did such a heinous thing to his family.


I guess I'm just a pessimist because I always assume that social media accounts reflect a carefully curated version of the life you want people to think you have.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin

OhTall1 said:


> I guess I'm just a pessimist because I always assume that social media accounts reflect a carefully curated version of the life you want people to think you have.


I wish I could get my friend to understand this. She goes into a deep depression when she logs onto facebook because she feels like everyone’s life is better than hers. :/


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## Kindheart

nysister said:


> Well said! I don't know if it was noted above but she told a friend she thought he might be unfaithful.
> 
> Let's see a nice looking man with a mortgage he can't pay for, two little girls and a wife carrying their third child involved in what seems to be an MLM.
> 
> That's a Lifetime movie waiting to happen, he was trying to find a way to start a new life with a younger, cuter woman without children and not have to make child support or mortgage payments. I could have seen that coming a mile away.
> 
> What an evil man. It's horrible enough to kill your wife, but your 3 kids too? Vile.
> 
> eta. He became too used to that bachelor life when she was away with the kids for 5/6 weeks.


Yup wouldn’t be the first time it happened . 
Now he confessed he had an active affair and that he killed his wife because he caught her strangling one of the girls ,the kind of lies he comes up with is unbelievable. Sociopath . So he sees his wife killing his children on the baby monitor and not only he didn’t stop her but also disposed of their bodies in oil tanks what loving father does that ? He’s a straight sociopath . If you guys seen his interviews he can’t hold himself from smiling while he’s talking about their disappearance


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## natural2008

I heard on news radio he told his wife he wanted a divorce, she went nuts, strangled her babies, he saw and got enraged then killed her.  He's a mess.


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## nysister

Kindheart said:


> Yup wouldn’t be the first time it happened .
> Now he confessed he had an active affair and that he killed his wife because he caught her strangling one of the girls ,the kind of lies he comes up with is unbelievable. Sociopath . So he sees his wife killing his children on the baby monitor and not only he didn’t stop her but also disposed of their bodies in oil tanks what loving father does that ? He’s a straight sociopath . If you guys seen his interviews he can’t hold himself from smiling while he’s talking about their disappearance



Yes a total Sociopath! Just when I thought it couldn't be worse he tries to get off on manslaughter by lying and saying she killed the girls. A portrait of evil like the Menendez brothers and Scott Peterson.


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## LivingInPeace

How do you have a $400,000 house and an income of $91,000?


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## TCatt86

LivingInPeace said:


> How do you have a $400,000 house and an income of $91,000?


whiteness. I'll never forget this episode of house hunters where this couple straight out of couple. Fresh out of college making $50k combined buying a $250k house


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## TCatt86

I read about this earlier. it was so obvious he was involved. just crazy


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## Kanky

TCatt86 said:


> whiteness. I'll never forget this episode of house hunters where this couple straight out of couple. Fresh out of college making $50k combined buying a $250k house


A lot of people get downpayment money from family which goes a long way towards making the mortgage affordable.


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## LadyChe

Kanky said:


> A lot of people get downpayment money from family which goes a long way towards making the mortgage affordable.




With $9.51 in checking? I’m still dumbfounded.


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## Transformer

natural2008 said:


> I heard on news radio he told his wife he wanted a divorce, she went nuts, strangled her babies, he saw and got enraged then killed her.  He's a mess.




It could have happened that way.  He has asked for dna from parts of their body.

However, his moving the bodies to a filled oil drum doesn’t help his case.


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## Ivonnovi

I would not be surprised if He put the suspicious DNA on kids & mom posthumously to solidify his excuse; afterall he was already moving bodies around. 
  Same mindset as those who try to make a Homicide look like a Suicide


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## TCatt86

Transformer said:


> It could have happened that way.  He has asked for dna from parts of their body.
> 
> However, his moving the bodies to a filled oil drum doesn’t help his case.


The fact that he hid their bodies then went on tv trying to force out tears leads me to believe he killed them all.


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## Farida

LivingInPeace said:


> How do you have a $400,000 house and an income of $91,000?


Right? As soon as I saw that I was like no wonder they are bad with money. I bet he felt the stress of the new baby would make life even worse...then he met his side boo. He wanted it to end. 

And friends knew. Why would you call the cops if your friend did not answer the phone? Because she had reason to fear.


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## Maracujá

nysister said:


> I'm always wary of people that post the "I love them so much" posts on SM. In many cases I've seen it be just the opposite in their lives.
> 
> In more than just this case, I find that 'those that do, have no need to say'.



Because thanks wasn't enough.


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## Maracujá

My 0.2cents: will never understand why people feel the need to lie about their personal lives. My cousin wanted to make me feel bad, over the fact that I have not set foot outside of Europe in 10 years...she grew tired of it. I made it clear to her that traveling, though it may be her passion, is not a priority for me. Staycations are my thing, it's also what I can afford, so that's what I do *shrug*.


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## Kindheart

Transformer said:


> It could have happened that way.  He has asked for dna from parts of their body.
> 
> However, his moving the bodies to a filled oil drum doesn’t help his case.


I highly doubt it ,his first reaction would be to call 911 and not chuck their bodies in crude oil to conceal the odour ,that’s a sign of gross lack of respect and empathy . Also he pretended to be looking for them in tv interviews showing no emotions and smiling all throughout it as if he was talking about something trivial . It’s called “dupe delight”. An innocent man wouldn’t do this


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## Kindheart

TCatt86 said:


> The fact that he hid their bodies then went on tv trying to force out tears leads me to believe he killed them all.


He was holding laughing several times .  awful actor.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Watts-killed-family-start-new-life-lover.html


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## TCatt86

Kindheart said:


> He was holding laughing several times .  awful actor.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Watts-killed-family-start-new-life-lover.html


There's a part of the interview where he says "I just want to see thrm again" he closes his eyes and kind of smirks. I think he was picturing them as he last saw them and that was dead


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## werenumber2

Ooh man, they’re going to have a field day with this guy in prison. He might as well kill himself now because he sure will wish he were dead


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## intellectualuva

I haven't seen the interviews, but from what I heard he's clearly a sociopath. I do wonder if she ever saw anything in him that gave her pause or was he simply a good actor?


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## TCatt86

intellectualuva said:


> I haven't seen the interviews, but from what I heard he's clearly a sociopath. I do wonder if she ever saw anything in him that gave her pause or was he simply a good actor?


Sociopaths unlike psychopaths are particularly charming and really good as masking their crazy. She may not havr truly know he was crazy until recently. It's telling when her friend couldn't get in touch with her for just a couple of hours she immediately called the police..


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## nyeredzi

LivingInPeace said:


> How do you have a $400,000 house and an income of $91,000?


I know a coworker who just bought a house, these figures are almost the same. She didn't even have a big downpayment. Just good credit and no other debt. These lending companies will do it.

We are in Maryland. But given what I know of my home state California, this scenario must be common. Having a home worth 4x your annual income, that is.


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## MzRhonda

appears she was in a MLM company called Level-Thrive and there was a fundraiser started for her prior to finding out she had been murdered.


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## LivingInPeace

nyeredzi said:


> I know a coworker who just bought a house, these figures are almost the same. She didn't even have a big downpayment. Just good credit and no other debt. These lending companies will do it.
> 
> We are in Maryland. But given what I know of my home state California, this scenario must be common. Having a home worth 4x your annual income, that is.


But how do people survive? When can you buy clothes? Put gas in the car? Eat?


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## nyeredzi

LivingInPeace said:


> But how do people survive? When can you buy clothes? Put gas in the car? Eat?


From what I can tell, the mortgage payment will take up half of after tax income. They keep all other expenses low. Rarely get new clothes, lots of second hand stuff, make all their own meals, no big vacations, just modest living, and no debt. That income should leave you with at least $2000 after the mortgage is paid, so you can make it if you live modestly. And this is a family of four!


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## Theresamonet

intellectualuva said:


> I haven't seen the interviews, but from what I heard he's clearly a sociopath. I do wonder if she ever saw anything in him that gave her pause or was he simply a good actor?



I saw a clip of one of her “I love my husband” posts. In it she mentioned how he pursued her, and she kept turning him down. She finally gave in to his persistence, and the rest is history. I know that it’s not uncommon for a woman to end up with a man she previously blew off, but in this case I wondered what red flags or bad vibes did he give off that made her repeatedly rebuff him.


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## TCatt86

Theresamonet said:


> I saw a clip of one of her “I love my husband” posts. In it she mentioned how he pursued her, and she kept turning him down. She finally gave in to his persistence, and the rest is history. I know that it’s not uncommon for a woman to end up with a man she previously blew off, but in this case I wondered what red flags or bad vibes did he give off that made her repeatedly rebuff him.


this may not have been the case but he was likely love bombing her. There's a reason that it freaks women out and that's because a normal rational human isn't doing that  

I also read that he convinced her to have baby #3


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## Leeda.the.Paladin




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## Leeda.the.Paladin

MzRhonda said:


> appears she was in a MLM company called Level-Thrive and there was a fundraiser started for her prior to finding out she had been murdered.


Thrive is a mess. 

A lot of the moms in this area are just like this woman.  They sell thrive, live beyond their means, post constantly on social media about how great their lives are. But there’s also a lot of that cheating, financial ruin, etc going on. DH and I feel so out of place here. Anyway I think these women are so upset because it hits so close to home.


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## MzRhonda

It looks like they hadn't been married long and that when they filed for bankruptcy they only had the 1 child.

I think the fundraiser has made almost $100k.

She also had lupus.


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## Reinventing21

I have always wanted a mainstream media that posted stuff like this over and over till people understood the deliberate, malicious, racist intent of mainstream coverage.



Leeda.the.Paladin said:


>


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## Kindheart

This pic is eerie


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## moneychaser

nyeredzi said:


> I know a coworker who just bought a house, these figures are almost the same. She didn't even have a big downpayment. Just good credit and no other debt. These lending companies will do it.
> 
> We are in Maryland. But given what I know of my home state California, this scenario must be common. Having a home worth 4x your annual income, that is.



Same.  I have a coworker making around 75k this having a 360k townhouse built.


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## intellectualuva

I dont know how people sleep at night. Lol


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## Evolving78

MzRhonda said:


> appears she was in a MLM company called Level-Thrive and there was a fundraiser started for her prior to finding out she had been murdered.


She was gearing up to leave? Was this getaway money?


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## Evolving78

Theresamonet said:


> I saw a clip of one of her “I love my husband” posts. In it she mentioned how he pursued her, and she kept turning him down. She finally gave in to his persistence, and the rest is history. I know that it’s not uncommon for a woman to end up with a man she previously blew off, but in this case I wondered what red flags or bad vibes did he give off that made her repeatedly rebuff him.


He sounds like a straight up covert narc, or sociopath. Boy he did a number on her.. emotionally, mentally, and physically..


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## MzRhonda

Evolving78 said:


> She was gearing up to leave? Was this getaway money?


No, lol, it was a gofundme set up after she went missing...now it is to help her family attend the hearings and trial etc since they live in New Jersey.


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## Evolving78

MzRhonda said:


> No, lol, it was a gofundme set up after she went missing...now it is to help her family attend the hearings and trial etc since they live in New Jersey.


Oh....


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## Kindheart

So now a gay dude came forward (to the news )saying they were lovers


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## Leeda.the.Paladin

A man is claiming he had a 10-month-long affair with the Colorado dad accused of slaying his pregnant wife and their two toddler daughters.

The anonymous man from Loveland, Colorado, claimed Tuesday that he met Chris Watts, 33, on an app called “MeetMe” and that the pair began a sexual relationship when they saw each other in person for the first time in June 2017.

“It was clear that he was interested in me and attracted to me,” the man said on HLN’s “Crime & Justice” show. But Watts allegedly told him he was “not out and not ready to be out as far as his sexuality.”

“I had asked him if he’s sure he’s not bisexual because obviously, he had two children, but he told me he didn’t know, and at that moment he was attracted to me and me as a man.”

The man said Watts never told him he was married — but that he found out in late January or early February when they were driving around with Watts’ daughters Celeste, 3, and Bella 4.

“Bella made a comment and asked him if she could sleep with him and mommy tonight and that’s when I found out,” he said.

But Watts reportedly assured him that he and his wife, Shanann Watts, 34, weren’t happy at home, and were no longer sleeping together.

*SEE ALSO*

*Dad accused of killing wife, kids made video about saving relationships*
“He told me his wife was verbally and emotionally abusive, that he didn’t love her and that it was clear she didn’t love him.”

He added: “I knew something was wrong at home because obviously if nothing was wrong, he wouldn’t have pursued me.”

Eventually, the man said he broke it off when Watts kept telling him lies. He said he felt “ill” when he found out that Watts was arrested this month in the slayings of his wife and two daughters.

According to court documents, Watts had been having an affair with a co-worker. The anonymous man said that he imagined the co-worker could be either a man or a woman.

Friends of Shanann Watts also claimed she had told them she suspected her husband was having an affair.

The mom was 15 weeks pregnant when she was found dead Aug. 16., along with her two girls.

HLN’s host Ashleigh Banfield said the show sought the man to speak out but that it couldn’t independently confirm his story.


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## OhTall1

LivingInPeace said:


> How do you have a $400,000 house and an income of $91,000?


Because that's what the bank approved them to take out.
Before I started looking at homes, I'd already done the math to determine the max I could take out to cover the monthly payment -- mortgage, taxes, insurance, condo fees -- and not have to downgrade my life.   I was approved for WAY more than that amount. I looked at the lending company's maximum  number and was like







Ain't nobody trying to eat oodles of noodles for a decade!  I purchased based on my maximum, not their.


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## LivingInPeace

OhTall1 said:


> Because that's what the bank approved them to take out.
> Before I started looking at homes, I'd already done the math to determine the max I could take out to cover the monthly payment -- mortgage, taxes, insurance, condo fees -- and not have to downgrade my life.   I was approved for WAY more than that amount. I looked at the lending company's maximum  number and was like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't nobody trying to eat oodles of noodles for a decade!  I purchased based on my maximum, not their.


Which is what you’re supposed to do. You aren’t supposed to buy a house and then have to alternate which family member gets to eat that day.


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## TCatt86

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> A man is claiming he had a 10-month-long affair with the Colorado dad accused of slaying his pregnant wife and their two toddler daughters.
> 
> The anonymous man from Loveland, Colorado, claimed Tuesday that he met Chris Watts, 33, on an app called “MeetMe” and that the pair began a sexual relationship when they saw each other in person for the first time in June 2017.
> 
> “It was clear that he was interested in me and attracted to me,” the man said on HLN’s “Crime & Justice” show. But Watts allegedly told him he was “not out and not ready to be out as far as his sexuality.”
> 
> “I had asked him if he’s sure he’s not bisexual because obviously, he had two children, but he told me he didn’t know, and at that moment he was attracted to me and me as a man.”
> 
> The man said Watts never told him he was married — but that he found out in late January or early February when they were driving around with Watts’ daughters Celeste, 3, and Bella 4.
> 
> “Bella made a comment and asked him if she could sleep with him and mommy tonight and that’s when I found out,” he said.
> 
> But Watts reportedly assured him that he and his wife, Shanann Watts, 34, weren’t happy at home, and were no longer sleeping together.
> 
> *SEE ALSO*
> View attachment 434537
> *Dad accused of killing wife, kids made video about saving relationships*
> “He told me his wife was verbally and emotionally abusive, that he didn’t love her and that it was clear she didn’t love him.”
> 
> He added: “I knew something was wrong at home because obviously if nothing was wrong, he wouldn’t have pursued me.”
> 
> Eventually, the man said he broke it off when Watts kept telling him lies. He said he felt “ill” when he found out that Watts was arrested this month in the slayings of his wife and two daughters.
> 
> According to court documents, Watts had been having an affair with a co-worker. The anonymous man said that he imagined the co-worker could be either a man or a woman.
> 
> Friends of Shanann Watts also claimed she had told them she suspected her husband was having an affair.
> 
> The mom was 15 weeks pregnant when she was found dead Aug. 16., along with her two girls.
> 
> HLN’s host Ashleigh Banfield said the show sought the man to speak out but that it couldn’t independently confirm his story.


Wow. He was bringing the kids around his male lover. I wonder if the wife found out he was having a gay affair and she had to go because of it.


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## intellectualuva

LivingInPeace said:


> Which is what you’re supposed to do. *You aren’t supposed to buy a house and then have to alternate which family member gets to eat that day.*



This made me laugh way harder than it should.


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## Evolving78

TCatt86 said:


> Wow. He was bringing the kids around his male lover. I wonder if the wife found out he was having a gay affair and she had to go because of it.


I think he was getting ready to leave her and her being pregnant (ruining his plans) was the reason.  I think that man was being anybody he needed to be to get whatever he wanted (energy) out of people. Just a straight up vampire.


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## Farida

LivingInPeace said:


> Which is what you’re supposed to do. You aren’t supposed to buy a house and then have to alternate which family member gets to eat that day.



True story. Here in CA the bank was willing to approve me for a mortgage 48% of my income BEFORE taxes or any other deductions. Not including property taxes, HOA... So by the time I would pay state, federal, retirement, health care premiums I would have some money for ramen.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin

*Chris Watts murder case becomes obsession on Facebook*

*FREDERICK, Colo. -- The murders of Shanann Watts and her two girls, Celeste and Bella, in Frederick, Colo. continues to make national headlines nearly a month after they were first reported missing.

As the world waits for any new information in the case, as well as Christopher Watts' next court date, people have become obsessed with the life Shanann meticulously documented on Facebook.

READ: Everything we know so far about the Chris Watts case

Dozens of public and private groups are now dedicated to the murders. A public group called Prayers for Shanann, Bella Celeste, and Nico has more than 30,000 members. Another has nearly 14,000 members.  

Thousands of strangers are now playing detective, posting theories and speculation on what happened after watching and analyzing the very public life Shanann left behind on Facebook.

Shanann painted a portrait of the perfect family on social media. Homemade videos and photos she posted show what seemed to be a doting father and happily-married couple.

"Eight years later, we have two kids, we live in Colorado and he's the best thing that's ever happened to me," Shanann said in one of her Facebook live videos promoting her business.

Other videos show Chris playing with Celeste and Bella while Shanann can be heard from behind the camera laughing and playing along.

But that picture-perfect image was shattered when Frederick police along with Weld County prosecutors arrested Chris Watts for killing his own family and unborn child and then allegedly hiding their bodies at a Weld County oil and gas site where he worked.

People from around the world are now combing through Shanann's Facebook videos for answers or any clue to help them understand how a family who seemed so happy could end this tragically.

Chris Watts' is due back in court on Nov. 19, where prosecutors and his defense will likely have to share more details about what they allege happened behind closed doors.

*


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## Leeda.the.Paladin

I know this is me doing this too, but it’s kind of crazy/weird/sad/interesting that people are focusing on this murder and trying to figure it out, etc. I mean, I avidly watched the Keepers and The Staircase on Netflix, but the fact that a) she basically chronicled her whole life and b) it’s still such a fresh murder that involves small children makes it feel different.


----------



## momi

I was not expecting this twist.  My guess is the wife found out and planned to out him and leave.  Now I wonder if the rumored co-worker affair was with a man too.

What kind of demented person could actually kill their own children????


----------



## Kindheart

momi said:


> I was not expecting this twist.  My guess is the wife found out and planned to out him and leave.  Now I wonder if the rumored co-worker affair was with a man too.
> 
> What kind of demented person could actually kill their own children????


It has been confirmed the coworker is a woman. I dont believenthe man lover story ,he didn’t have Chris number how are you going to be lovers and never have a personal number


----------



## RossBoss

This reminds me of the Makeva Jenkins murder but of course that case did not get even 1/20th of the media attention.


----------



## naturalgyrl5199

OhTall1 said:


> Because that's what the bank approved them to take out.
> Before I started looking at homes, I'd already done the math to determine the max I could take out to cover the monthly payment -- mortgage, taxes, insurance, condo fees -- and not have to downgrade my life.   I was approved for WAY more than that amount. I looked at the lending company's maximum  number and was like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't nobody trying to eat oodles of noodles for a decade!  I purchased based on my maximum, not their.


same here. We had A1 credit and they threw a little extra money at us with our middle of the road income at the time. Smartly, we took out what we wanted to spend monthly and its been great. So now that we make more money, the mortgage is cheaper against our monthly income. I wouldn't be surprised if they have one of those mortgages that balloon. They are not given out all the time, but builders and investors get those easier than non-investors. But with these people...who knows how people get into that much house with so little money. They MAY have gotten help from a relative. And HGTV is to blame for that. People get help with a larger downpayment or a gift of a 10-20K cash infusion....and rather than increase the downpayment to lower the mortgage, I have seen people on HGTV put it towards MORE HOUSE than their income would have allowed them to afford. Which means more mortgage. And I can't see 50% of my monthly income going towards my mortgage. For us when we initially purchased it was 17% of our income. Right now, especially since we pay a little more towards the principal...our mortgage is roughly 11.5% of our income...including the extra we put in towards the principal after the PMI drop. Its a sellers market right now. But I'm staying put. For a WHILE.


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

*Chris Watts sentenced to life for 'inhumane' killings of two daughters and pregnant wife*
















*[paste:font size="5"]*
*








*
*Bus driver, student recall escape from fire*

*Officials: Missing teacher killed in Mexico*

*Flake: Protecting Mueller has to be priority*

*'Hero' security guard shot, killed by police*

*Trump knocks admiral who led bin Laden raid*

*Florida's manual recount completed*

*Trump: A good time for government shutdown*

*Trump tours fire-ravaged California towns*

*Gillum concedes Florida race for governor*

*Chris Watts gets life in prison for killing pregnant wife, kids*
*Family auctions off child bride on Faceboo*
*Federal Air Marshals accused of gun mishaps*

*Chicago PD: 4 dead from Mercy Hospital shooting*

*WaPo: Ivanka used personal email for government business*

*Families react to Chris Watts killing family*

*WH backs down, fully restores Acosta's pass*

*Bloomberg makes massive donation for education*

*Bus driver, student recall escape from fire*

*Officials: Missing teacher killed in Mexico*

*Flake: Protecting Mueller has to be priority*

*'Hero' security guard shot, killed by police*

*Trump knocks admiral who led bin Laden raid*

*Florida's *
*



*
*Chris Watts gets life in prison for killing pregnant wife, kids*
*pleaded guilty this month to first-degree murder and other charges in the killings of his wife, Shanann, 34, and their daughters, Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3, before crudely disposing of them at a secluded site where he worked. With approval of his wife's family, prosecutors dropped the possibility of the death penalty. *

*In court, Shanann Watts' mother, Sandy Rzucek, explained, "I didn't want death for you because that's not my right. Your life is between you and God, and I pray he has mercy for you."*

*Watts' hands were shackled at his waist and he wore an orange jumpsuit. He rarely looked up during the proceeding -- not even when his mother turned around to face him and tearfully said, "We have loved you from the beginning and we still love you now. ... We forgive you, son."*
*Two families devastated*
*Watts' parents, who had previously defended their son and questioned his plea deal during an interview with CNN affiliate KMGH, recanted those remarks and told the court in a prepared statement that the family would not ask for leniency. *

*"This should never have happened. This is not condonable. This is something that we will never get over," a family representative said, reading a statement as the parents looked on.*

*Frank Rzucek Sr., Shanann Watts' father, questioned how Chris Watts could have killed people he was charged with protecting before disposing of them like bags of rubbish.*
*



*



*"My kids are my life," Watts said, standing on the front porch of their home in Frederick, about 30 miles north of Denver. "Those smiles light up my life."*

*Watts told the station his wife came home from the airport about 2 a.m., and he left for work about 5:15 a.m. He said the two had an emotional but civil conversation before he left, but he didn't elaborate.*
*



*


*Chris Watts claimed he had called and texted his wife about three times that morning with no reply, he told KMGH. He said he realized something was wrong when Shanann Watts' friend arrived at the couple's home around noon.

"She just got back from Arizona, and I figured she was just busy, but when her friend showed up, that's when it just registered -- like all right, this isn't right," Watts said.*
*Story didn't add up*
*Three days later, the body of Shanann Watts,15 weeks pregnant, was found in a shallow grave. The bodies of Bella and Celeste were found in commercial oil tanks at a company where Watts had worked.*
*



*

*Chris Watts' mugshot*
*Rourke said Watts became a suspect "very, very early on."*
*"Many of the things that he was saying just weren't quite adding up," Rourke said Monday.*

*One key piece of evidence was sheets from the bed in the Watts' master bedroom that were found at the crime scene, prosecutors said.*

*After authorities found the bodies, Chris Watts changed his story, telling police he had strangled Shanann Watts in a fit of rage after seeing his wife choking Celeste.*

*On November 6, Watts pleaded guilty to nine charges, including three counts of first-degree murder and unlawful termination of a pregnancy.*

*Shanann Watts had gender reveal party planned*
*Other woman tells her side of story*
*According to an unsealed Weld County arrest affidavit, investigators say they discovered Watts was "actively involved" in an affair with a co-worker. *

*It's not clear if that was Nichol Kessinger, 30, who told The Denver Post she met him while working for the environmental department of a petroleum contractor.*
*"We had just met," Kessinger told the newspaper. "I barely knew him."*
*



*


*Man pleads guilty to killing wife, kids 02:33*

*He wasn't wearing a wedding ring when they were introduced, and she thought he was attractive, soft-spoken and a good listener, she said. When they first met outside of work in late June, he told her he was in the final stages of a divorce. She never met any of his relatives or friends, Kessinger told The Post. *

*Watts sent her a text August 13 to say his family had disappeared, and she was confused about why the media was at his house.*

*"When I read the news, I found out he was still married and his wife was 15 weeks pregnant," Kessinger told the newspaper.*

*She peppered him with questions via phone calls and text, she said, and he changed his story about the divorce, showed little emotion about his family's disappearance, and tried to change the subject. *

*"It got to a point that he was telling me so many lies that I eventually told him that I did not want to speak to him again until his family was found," she told the paper, explaining that she called police on August 15 to report Watts' lies. *
*Rourke said she "was absolutely instrumental" in the investigation.*


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

He should’ve been put to death. His own family knows he’s guilty.


----------



## MzRhonda

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> He should’ve been put to death. His own family knows he’s guilty.


He’s yt and got yt justice


----------



## Pat Mahurr

Does anyone know what is wrong with this man?  I want someone to put a name to it.


----------



## msbettyboop

TCatt86 said:


> Sociopaths unlike psychopaths are particularly charming and really good as masking their crazy. She may not havr truly know he was crazy until recently. It's telling when her friend couldn't get in touch with her for just a couple of hours she immediately called the police..



You are correct. I have dated a sociopath before, in college. During the course of the relationship, I saw his crazy twice. It was subtle and then the crazy went back in just as fast. Later on in life, when I told friends that knew us back then about it, they always went, " What? Him? Come on. You gotta be making that up. Are you serious?" He was that charming and a master chameleon. 

He's the reason I've read dozens of books on sociopaths and psychopaths. Nowadays, I can smell the crazy from the first few conversations and head off quickly in the opposite direction.


----------



## ElegantPearl17

msbettyboop said:


> You are correct. I have dated a sociopath before, in college. During the course of the relationship, I saw his crazy twice. It was subtle and then the crazy went back in just as fast. Later on in life, when I told friends that knew us back then about it, they always went, " What? Him? Come on. You gotta be making that up. Are you serious?" He was that charming and a master chameleon.
> 
> He's the reason I've read dozens of books on sociopaths and psychopaths. Nowadays, I can smell the crazy from the first few conversations and head off quickly in the opposite direction.



What were the specific signs he had in college?


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

Pat Mahurr said:


> Does anyone know what is wrong with this man?  I want someone to put a name to it.


Sociopath?


----------



## nysister

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> He should’ve been put to death. His own family knows he’s guilty.



Her family didn't want to seek the death penalty.


----------



## msbettyboop

https://wgntv.com/2018/11/24/he-has...s-watts-and-wife-before-he-killed-his-family/

The texts are chilling...


----------



## prettywhitty

msbettyboop said:


> https://wgntv.com/2018/11/24/he-has...s-watts-and-wife-before-he-killed-his-family/
> 
> The texts are chilling...


That’s horrifying.


----------



## nubiangoddess3

Pat Mahurr said:


> *Does anyone know what is wrong with this man*?  I want someone to put a name to it.




His white. Problem solved


----------



## momi

msbettyboop said:


> https://wgntv.com/2018/11/24/he-has...s-watts-and-wife-before-he-killed-his-family/
> 
> The texts are chilling...



To think he was texting his wife all while planning on killing her and his children.

He is an evil monster and should have gotten the death penalty.


----------



## Kindheart

He s a sociopath he completely lacks empathy and also gender fluid


----------



## Theresamonet

The death penalty would have been too good for him. He deserves to live that prison life, watching his back constantly due to the nature of his crimes. I’m sure one of his fellow inmates will take him out much more violently and less humane than the department of corrections would.


----------



## msbettyboop

There's even more information out now with the discovery documents including pictures of him and the woman he was cheating with. He began the affair when they were apart for 5 weeks when she was with her parents.

Is it really that easy to fall out of love with someone fast enough to plot how to slaughter them and your kids that wrote a poem called, "Daddy, you're my hero." within 5 weeks. WTF.


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

Theresamonet said:


> The death penalty would have been too good for him. He deserves to live that prison life, watching his back constantly due to the nature of his crimes. I’m sure one of his fellow inmates will take him out much more violently and less humane than the department of corrections would.


But you know he will be in protective custody as highly publicized as this case was. He probably already has groupies who just know he’s innocent or misunderstood who want to marry him. He will write out his memoir 
, eat pretty well and maybe get a degree online.


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

msbettyboop said:


> There's even more information out now with the discovery documents including pictures of him and the woman he was cheating with. He began the affair when they were apart for 5 weeks when she was with her parents.
> 
> Is it really that easy to fall out of love with someone fast enough to plot how to slaughter them and your kids that wrote a poem called, "Daddy, you're my hero." within 5 weeks. WTF.


He was never really in love with her. Someone who does something like this probably doesn’t have a capacity for loving other people.


----------



## Ivonnovi

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> *He was never really in love with her*. Someone who does something like this probably doesn’t have a capacity for loving other people.



This!!!   The Bolded.    His wife was a Tool he used to make children.   The proof?   In her text when she went off about how he [*JUST GOT her pregnant to try for a BOY*].    (Read the "chilling texts" mentioned upthread)   This nut just tried to Alt-Ctrl-Delete his family to start anew.  

This kind of personality is incapable of "love" though they are very good at going through the motions.  Instead they are very good at using folks; and when the "folks' no longer serve their purpose, the folks are Discarded.   

My ex too was more interested in Fatherhood; and I was too young/dumb to see it back then.


----------



## ScorpioBeauty09

Future 'Fatal Vows' episode. 

This story is chilling. Taking out the murders, the breakdown of this marriage reminds me of a former classmate that just finalized her divorce from her husband. They have 4 small children and struggled paying bills but weren't in debt like this family. The text messages were too familiar. Only he just left my old classmate and asked for a divorce.


----------



## Bette Davis Eyes

They are out for him.  He was moved to an undisclosed prison for safety.


----------



## Keen

Very interesting. Similar case with my former classmate (except he didn't kill the kids). I always wonder how the mistress feels after these things happen.


----------



## Theresamonet

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> But you know he will be in protective custody as highly publicized as this case was. He probably already has groupies who just know he’s innocent or misunderstood who want to marry him. He will write out his memoir
> , eat pretty well and maybe get a degree online.



Ad seg is not a comfortable vacation away from the general prison population. Inmates in segregation are 9/10 miserable. They don’t have the same freedoms and privileges as gen pop. And they still aren’t 100% safe, because usually everyone in protective custody for a variety of reasons are all together. Meaning, for instance, someone who is cutting ties with his gang will end up in the same PC unit as the child rapist. There are not enough resources to separate everyone by their specific crime. So being in PC is not a guarantee that they’ll remain unscathed the entire time. Inmates are attacked for their crimes or killed in PC all the time. Death row, on the other hand, is usually the most protected place in prison. And over a quarter of death row inmate in the US die of old age/natural causes waiting to be executed. And a good portion of the  75% left over are put to death at an old age, having spent 30-40 years on death row. 

Also, I personally don’t feel like death is a true punishment. This life can be torturous. I think he should get to experience the worst of it. Death is probably sweet relief.


----------



## Ms. Tarabotti

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> But you know he will be in protective custody as highly publicized as this case was. He probably already has groupies who just know he’s innocent or misunderstood who want to marry him. He will write out his memoir
> , eat pretty well and maybe get a degree online.





shawnyblazes said:


> They are out for him.  He was moved to an undisclosed prison for safety.



Being in prison for killing your wife might be acceptable (in jailhouse culture) but he also killed young children. People who commit crimes against children aren't especially liked in prison. With this being a high profile case as well, he is a target for some inmate seeking to make a name for themselves.


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

This is interesting. It’s a break down of body language . A lot of the video shown is from the first cop called the scene after Shannon’s friend reported her missing


----------



## Chicoro

He's visibly frustrated and angry about the bank accounts. He says she won't let him do anything with the accounts, she does it all, she controls it all.  Money conflicts are a huge problem in too many marriages.

That friend of the wife, her son and the neighbor all straight up said the husband was a liar and suspected him right away. That police officer was very professional as well. They spotted the inconsistencies immediately. But unfortunately, the wife and children already had been  slaughtered.

What I want to know is how do you spot a murdering psychopath BEFORE you marry and have kids with him or her?


----------



## Evolving78

Chicoro said:


> He's visibly frustrated and angry about the bank accounts. He says she won't let him do anything with the accounts, she does it all, she controls it all.  Money conflicts are a huge problem in too many marriages.
> 
> That friend of the wife, her son and the neighbor all straight up said the husband was a liar and suspected him right away. That police officer was very professional as well. They spotted the inconsistencies immediately. But unfortunately, the wife and children already had been  slaughtered.
> 
> What I want to know is how do you spot a murdering psychopath BEFORE you marry and have kids with him or her?


They show their hands pretty early in the relationship and a lot of minor inappropriate behavior gets shrugged off.  They usually create an emotional fog.


----------



## Chicoro

Evolving78 said:


> They show their hands pretty early in the relationship and a lot of minor inappropriate behavior gets shrugged off.  They usually create an emotional fog.



Please share! Do have specific examples?


----------



## Evolving78

Chicoro said:


> Please share! Do have specific examples?


Look up ambient abuse in relationships.
Things are always so urge with them, and they keep the relationship at a high speed pace.  They also like to consume a lot of your time and energy. You have to be worn down first before the next level abuse takes place.   I call that an emotional fog, but it is what is called Love Bombing. Also, people who are jerks will be jerks no matter what, but because they are so generous with their time, money, and energy, people do not pick up on the cues, or like I said they shrug it off.
His wife seemed like a piece of work too. They seemed like a one in the same type of person. That’s just my opinion.


----------



## Ivonnovi

@Chicoro   What is confusing is that some of us have been conditioned to identify some Narc traits as "Love" or "Caring"; and example is seeing Control as Love, Snarky jabs as someone just being themselves-but they do it out of Love.   When you see the traits, it is Imperative that you resist the urge to re-brand the behavior as something more _reasonable.     _
_I myself at 50+ still have a hard time with this. 
After all I grew up [subconsciously] doing this to tolerate my parents behavior so until recently I was unaware of how this problem was ...the cause of my almost magnetic attractiveness to Narcs; Hell, I was classic Narc Bait_​I had a realllly good video in my arsenal a while back but can't find it right now.   I'll update this post when I do.   Since you asked about how to identify these traits B4 you're [all in]  Search for info on the  "Narcisistic Smile or Smirk"....it's very telling.







I have had to learn to look out for the Narc Smile; Especially when it shows up at what to you is inappropriate times (dog, got hit by a car....or the pic of the ref   

 This lady (below) provides good explanations of what to look for in the Narc Smile/facial expressions.  Her depiction of them may not be as clear; but once your radar is set to pick-up on the gestures they are hard to ignore.   Most of us know what an arrogant smirk looks like.


Angie here, is very descriptive in how you may react when you 1st notice the traits; (we try to blow them off  or )


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

Ivonnovi said:


> have had to learn to look out for the Narc Smile; Especially when it shows up at what to you is inappropriate times (dog, got hit by a car....or the pic of the ref This lady provides good explanations of what to look for in the Narc Smile/facial expressions.


Did you watch the interview the husband did with the news station? Chris watts kept smiling or biting his lip like he was gonna smile. That’s crazy


----------



## Ivonnovi

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> Did you watch the interview the husband did with the news station? Chris watts kept smiling or biting his lip like he was gonna smile. That’s crazy



I just watched this one: Two things stand out.
1.  His eyes are pretty much dead throughout the interview; his eyes don't look worried, or remorseful; no sign of emotions.
2.  He says the he "can't stay in the house" ... "it's not the same"....  He plans to stay at a friends house that evening.​
Which took me back to #1; DUDE your family is missing so you're going to leave the house too?  Shouldn't your friends come by and stay with you to offer support and help keep a look out should your family return?
IJS

*ETA:  * @Leeda.the.Paladin   (post # 92       )   *Thanks for the reminder!* Also note that the discussion of the Shirt was the only time he felt comfortable enough to unfold his arms (he did not have to give a _guarded_ response  to the the shirt question).  BUT, as soon as the  _[very next] _questions returned to his family, 'dem arms folded again real quick!


----------



## Chicoro

Evolving78 said:


> Look up ambient abuse in relationships.
> Things are always so urge with them, and they keep the relationship at a high speed pace.  They also like to consume a lot of your time and energy. You have to be worn down first before the next level abuse takes place.   I call that an emotional fog, but it is what is called Love Bombing. Also, people who are jerks will be jerks no matter what, but because they are so generous with their time, money, and energy, people do not pick up on the cues, or like I said they shrug it off.
> His wife seemed like a piece of work too. They seemed like a one in the same type of person. That’s just my opinion.



Thank you for taking the time out to provide this detailed information. It is very much appreciated!


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

Ivonnovi said:


> I just watched this one:     Two things stand out.
> 1.  His eyes are pretty much dead throughout the interview; his eyes don't look worried, or remorseful; no sign of emotions.
> 2.  He says the he "can't stay in the house" ... "it's not the same"....  He plans to stay at a friends house that evening.​
> Which took me back to #1; DUDE your family is missing so you're going to leave the house too?  Shouldn't your friends come by and stay with you to offer support and help keep a look out should your family return?
> IJS


Girl! When he took the time out at the end of the interview to talk about his sports shirt? :/


----------



## 1QTPie

msbettyboop said:


> https://wgntv.com/2018/11/24/he-has...s-watts-and-wife-before-he-killed-his-family/
> 
> The texts are chilling...



I guarantee that he was texting his girlfriend while the police were in his house questioning him. He was on his phone the entire time.


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

Ivonnovi said:


> *Thanks for the reminder!* Also note that the discussion of the Shirt was the only time he felt comfortable enough to unfold his arms (he did not have to give a _guarded_ response the the shirt question). BUT, as soon as the _[very next] _questions returned to his family, 'dem arms folded again real quick!


Whoa did not notice the arms. You are right.


----------



## Sally.

1QTPie said:


> I guarantee that he was texting his girlfriend while the police were in his house questioning him. He was on his phone the entire time.




have you seen this video of the first cop's bodycam? the husband acted so unconcerned about the fact that his wife was missing. while her friend is freaking out going from room to room trying to think about places the wife could've been, he is just standing silently, not offering any solutions, barely answering the officer's questions, and texting on his phone like his wife and children aren't even missing (the wife's car was still in the garage). what got me was the look of horror on his face when he thought the officer called for backup and was going to arrest him.


----------



## Evolving78

I wonder what is the fascination with this tragic story?


----------



## Evolving78

Evolving78 said:


> I wonder what is the fascination with this tragic story?


I think I can answer my own question.  This is a reality, and it a reality for a lot of people. It is probably a reality for a lot of women on this board. Trying to figure him out, and learn all of the signs is somewhat helpful, but it is more helpful to understand why somebody doesn’t see and acknowledge what is right there in front of them is the key. Why are they ignoring the signs  and not trusting their own judgement? The wife would be more fascinating to analyze than the murdering husband.


----------



## Southernbella.

So I watched the body can analysis and fell down a rabbit hole. Two things:

1) their mortgage was mentioned upthread. There was a Reddit thread on this and it seems they did not have a large down payment. If they had one at all, it was probably only like 5-10%:







2) there is a narrative about Shannan and her attitude. Apparently some folks feel she was controlling/overbearing/emasculating and they're using some of her YouTube streams/videos to prove it. I shouldn't be surprised but like...how do you victim blame a murdered pregnant woman?


----------



## Southernbella.

Also: the mistress knew good and well that Chris was married. They found Google searches on her phone about Amber Frey's net worth, if Amber Frey got a book deal, and if people hate Amber Frey.


----------



## Everything Zen

Evolving78 said:


> I think I can answer my own question.  This is a reality, and it a reality for a lot of people. It is probably a reality for a lot of women on this board. Trying to figure him out, and learn all of the signs is somewhat helpful, but it is more helpful to understand why somebody doesn’t see and acknowledge what is right there in front of them is the key. Why are they ignoring the signs  and not trusting their own judgement? The wife would be more fascinating to analyze than the murdering husband.



Agreed It’s very much a sign of the times. There is a very popular show called “Dirty John” right now that has captivated millions of people because you wonder why/how an intelligent wealthy business savvy woman fell for and continued to stay with a to psychopath at the expense of her family who had red flags at every turn. I think it makes you do an internal assessment to make sure that you’re not overlooking things in your own life. 

Around the same time that this story broke, we had a very handsome, tall, family-oriented oncologist start in our department and he spoke so lovingly about his wife and kids. He went to church regularly and was so excited about his son’s communion, etc. I thought about this and jaded EZ was like- What’s wrong with him?  My church going mom agreed


----------



## Transformer

Southernbella. said:


> Also: the mistress knew good and well that Chris was married. They found Google searches on her phone about Amber Frey's net worth, if Amber Frey got a book deal, and if people hate Amber Frey.



Them white women all about profit, opportunity, and victimhood.

He already has about 80 women writing him in prison....they are turned on by him.


----------



## OhTall1

Evolving78 said:


> I wonder what is the fascination with this tragic story?


I think it's the combination of dead pregnant woman and kids killed by side chick having husband, all while putting on the SM front of being the all American family.  Similar to the Lacy Peterson story.


----------



## Transformer

OhTall1 said:


> I think it's the combination of dead pregnant woman and kids killed by side chick having husband, all while putting on the SM front of being the all American family.  Similar to the Lacy Peterson story.



Don’t forget the gay lover part.


----------



## Evolving78

OhTall1 said:


> I think it's the combination of dead pregnant woman and kids killed by side chick having husband, all while putting on the SM front of being the all American family.  Similar to the Lacy Peterson story.


We all know pregnancy is a dangerous and vulnerable time for a woman. Folks don’t think about that.


----------



## Transformer

Evolving78 said:


> We all know pregnancy is a dangerous and vulnerable time for a woman. Folks don’t think about that.



Yep,

 It there is also the Lifetime Movie genre (I hate that channel).  She presented the Norman Rockwell image to the world and it wasn’t like that.  He was sleeping with men, other women, and they were broke.


----------



## Leeda.the.Paladin

Southernbella. said:


> So I watched the body can analysis and fell down a rabbit hole. Two things:
> 
> 1) their mortgage was mentioned upthread. There was a Reddit thread on this and it seems they did not have a large down payment. If they had one at all, it was probably only like 5-10%:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) there is a narrative about Shannan and her attitude. Apparently some folks feel she was controlling/overbearing/emasculating and they're using some of her YouTube streams/videos to prove it. I shouldn't be surprised but like...how do you victim blame a murdered pregnant woman?


Even if that’s true and she had a bad attitude... just leave! And don’t kill your poor innocent babies! I can’t get with anyone trying to justify this psychos actions


----------



## Ivonnovi

Transformer said:


> Don’t forget the gay lover part.



WAIT WHATTTT???


----------



## Transformer

Ivonnovi said:


> WAIT WHATTTT???



Yes, he had a young male lover. They went to the lover’s family cabin for sex.


----------



## Sally.

OhTall1 said:


> I think it's the combination of dead pregnant woman and kids killed by side chick having husband, all while putting on the SM front of being the all American family.  Similar to the Lacy Peterson story.


Not for me. I don't care about none of this. What fascinates me is how this seemingly decent guy became so bold enough to kill his entire family and think he would get away with it in this day and age. He had no strong alibi and yet he did multiple televised interviews. It's like he didn't fully think this through yet still didn't try to flee. I am fascinated (meaning, horrified) by how patriarchy emboldens men, especially white men to the point of murder/violence/abuse against women. How could he have thought people were going to believe that his wife and kids just up and vanished and that he would be able to carry on with his life? I'm still trying to figure that out, but all I keep coming up with is patriarchy.


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## Sally.

Transformer said:


> Yes, he had a young male lover. They went to the lover’s family cabin for sex.


but how true is this? doesn't seem like it's been confirmed as the guy didn't reveal his identity.


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## Transformer

Sally. said:


> but how true is this? doesn't seem like it's been confirmed as the guy didn't reveal his identity.



Not sure.  The gay lover's mother think it is possible for her son to have made up the allegation.  Let's just say there are no pictures.


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## Southernbella.

They released more of his confession and it's awful.



Spoiler



one of the girls saw him dragging his wife's body down the stairs and both girls saw her dead on the floor of the truck and they saw him dig her grave. He killed the girls one at a time so one saw the other die.


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## intellectualuva




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## 1QTPie

Southernbella. said:


> Also: the mistress knew good and well that Chris was married. They found Google searches on her phone about Amber Frey's net worth, if Amber Frey got a book deal, and if people hate Amber Frey.



Out of all of the people to google, she looks up the woman whose boyfriend killed his wife??  So that was the plan all along then?


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## IslandMummy

Southernbella. said:


> They released more of his confession and it's awful.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> one of the girls saw him dragging his wife's body down the stairs and both girls saw her dead on the floor of the truck and they saw him dig her grave. He killed the girls one at a time so one saw the other die.


I don’t know whether he needs to die ASAP or be tortured slowly. He’s a demon.


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## intellectualuva

IslandMummy said:


> I don’t know whether he needs to die ASAP or be tortured slowly. He’s a demon.



Slowly. Very slowly. And if the family want a piece figuratively or literally they should be given the first shot.


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## Southernbella.

1QTPie said:


> Out of all of the people to google, she looks up the woman whose boyfriend killed his wife??  So that was the plan all along then?



That's what I'm wondering.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin

Ivonnovi said:


> @Chicoro   What is confusing is that some of us have been conditioned to identify some Narc traits as "Love" or "Caring"; and example is seeing Control as Love, Snarky jabs as someone just being themselves-but they do it out of Love.   When you see the traits, it is Imperative that you resist the urge to re-brand the behavior as something more _reasonable.     _
> _I myself at 50+ still have a hard time with this.
> After all I grew up [subconsciously] doing this to tolerate my parents behavior so until recently I was unaware of how this problem was ...the cause of my almost magnetic attractiveness to Narcs; Hell, I was classic Narc Bait_​I had a realllly good video in my arsenal a while back but can't find it right now.   I'll update this post when I do.   Since you asked about how to identify these traits B4 you're [all in]  Search for info on the  "Narcisistic Smile or Smirk"....it's very telling.
> View attachment 440133
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have had to learn to look out for the Narc Smile; Especially when it shows up at what to you is inappropriate times (dog, got hit by a car....or the pic of the ref
> 
> This lady (below) provides good explanations of what to look for in the Narc Smile/facial expressions.  Her depiction of them may not be as clear; but once your radar is set to pick-up on the gestures they are hard to ignore.   Most of us know what an arrogant smirk looks like.
> 
> 
> Angie here, is very descriptive in how you may react when you 1st notice the traits; (we try to blow them off  or )


A little off topic but on of my daughter’s friends moms married a narcissist/bipolar individual. She is right now on FB blasting everything that she’s been going through the last 2 years. It’s crazy. Shes also posting what the therapist said about him and his narcissistic behavior where their family is concerned. 

BUt looking back through her pictures of him, he has that Narc Smile you are describing when comforting the kids while they are crying.  I am just floored that I missed it. He has a financial hold over her but she’s basically said *** it and is taking the hit to get out from under his control. They signed a prenup so hopefully will be ok. :/


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## Ivonnovi

Kudo's to your friend for realizing it't time to say "when" and move on.    I totally understand having to "take the hit" in order to gain peace.  I wish her well.   

Thank you for the mention.   Regarding the "Narc Smile"....when you know what it is, and you See It...It  becomes hard to ignore.   Very Hard to Ignore.    

Should she start dating again, share the pictures you mentioned with her, and explain the smile.   
OR just show her the video.      SHE NEEDS the KNOWLEDGE TOO!​


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## Kindheart

MzRhonda said:


> He’s yt and got yt justice


They were going to . Shanann family didn’t want to so they made a plea deal confession for life in prison

I ve listened to all the 4 plus hours long confession and it’s horrific . The fbi done an amazing job stroking is ego and pretend to be his friend, the way he comes across like a nice guy and then goes to describe he drove 45 minutes with Shanann s body wrapped in a sheet ,how the girls said it smells in the car because the mother defecated after passing,how he smothered little Cece with her favorite blanket and Bella the oldest girl ,witnessed everything and begged her dad not to do that to her . It’s horrifying. 
This is a covert narcissist with
Sociopathic traits or malignant narcissist the most dangerous one . He seemed passive and kind all his life ,almost whimsy,his wife thought he would never harm her or the girls ,she was bossy,a go getter ,strong personality,when he dropped the mask she was so confused she didn’t know him at all . Her idea of him is completely opposite of who he really is


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## Ivonnovi

@Kindheart

PREACH....PREACH...Preach!!!!

Your analysis of him and those personality types are so spot on.  *That mask is hella confusing if you ain't "woke" to the game.

*


Kindheart said:


> ......... . The fbi done an amazing job stroking is ego and pretend to be his friend, the way he comes across like a nice guy and then goes to describe he drove 45 minutes with Shanann s body wrapped in a sheet ,how the girls said it smells in the car because the mother defecated after passing,how he smothered little Cece with her favorite blanket and Bella the oldest girl ,witnessed everything and begged her dad not to do that to her . It’s horrifying.
> *This is a covert narcissist with
> Sociopathic traits or malignant narcissist the most dangerous one . He seemed passive and kind all his life ,almost whimsy,his wife thought he would never harm her or the girls ,she was bossy,a go getter ,strong personality,when he dropped the mask she was so confused she didn’t know him at all . Her idea of him is completely opposite of who he really is*


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## Leeda.the.Paladin

Ivonnovi said:


> Kudo's to your friend for realizing it't time to say "when" and move on.    I totally understand having to "take the hit" in order to gain peace.  I wish her well.
> 
> Thank you for the mention.   Regarding the "Narc Smile"....when you know what it is, and you See It...It  becomes hard to ignore.   Very Hard to Ignore.
> 
> Should she start dating again, share the pictures you mentioned with her, and explain the smile.
> OR just show her the video.      SHE NEEDS the KNOWLEDGE TOO!​


Well based on the ongoing drama, I have to wonder if she’s going to stay away from him. She’s been begging him on various posts to contact her, as he’s cut off communication with her. 

She says she’s almost out of money and she wants him to still be a daddy to her children. I don’t know. I was thinking about sending her some grocery gift cards but I fear she might have her own issues....I honestly only know her cuz outlet kids are friends. ... he in the meantime has sent personal messages to all of her fb friebds, myself included , to let them know she’s a liar . What a mess


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## msbettyboop

Did anyone watch the Netflix doc on this? That nosy neighbor like solved the case within an hour. Was very shocking to see it all again and see more of the texts. His daughter's last words really broke my heart...


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## fluffyforever

msbettyboop said:


> Did anyone watch the Netflix doc on this? That nosy neighbor like solved the case within an hour. Was very shocking to see it all again and see more of the texts. His daughter's last words really broke my heart...


Yes I watched. I followed it on the radio During my commute, so seeing the documentary was even more heartbreaking. Especially since there was so many personal videos and texts shared in the movie. He is such a monster.


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## fluffyforever

And the format of the documentary! There’s no narrator or host. The entire film is from actual footage, phone calls, and texts. I was surprised there was so much footage and such to make this film. The case was all laid out from the family’s own words.


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## MizAvalon

msbettyboop said:


> Did anyone watch the Netflix doc on this? That nosy neighbor like solved the case within an hour. Was very shocking to see it all again and see more of the texts. His daughter's last words really broke my heart...



I watched it a couple of weeks ago and wow, so heartbreaking. I had never heard of the case before so it was all new to me. Her friend that came to check on her and the neighbor with the videotape who told the cops he was behaving strangely basically solved the crime.

I can’t even comprehend how absolutely deranged a person must be to kill their own children like that.


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## msbettyboop

MizAvalon said:


> I watched it a couple of weeks ago and wow, so heartbreaking. I had never heard of the case before so it was all new to me. Her friend that came to check on her and the neighbor with the videotape who told the cops he was behaving strangely basically solved the crime.
> 
> I can’t even comprehend how absolutely deranged a person must be to kill their own children like that.



It's insane. He was basically like, "I don't like how this life turned out. Imma erase it and start over." He threw his whole family away like garbage. Literally. 

I also hated the way he emotionally stonewalled that poor woman. She knew something was wrong and tried so hard to reach him and he just kept stonewalling and saying everything was fine. He completely withdrew his emotions from the partnership. HORRIBLE.

Every woman needs a friend like Nicole.


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## msbettyboop

fluffyforever said:


> And the format of the documentary! There’s no narrator or host. The entire film is from actual footage, phone calls, and texts. I was surprised there was so much footage and such to make this film. The case was all laid out from the family’s own words.



A lot of people didn't like the format but I did. It was great to see without the dramatic interference from narrators, actors, and people being interviewed after the trial. I wouldn't have minded a criminal psychologist to break down WTF was wrong with that sick freak but I got that on YouTube.


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## Lylddlebit

msbettyboop said:


> Did anyone watch the Netflix doc on this? That nosy neighbor like solved the case within an hour. Was very shocking to see it all again and see more of the texts. His daughter's last words really broke my heart...


I did watch this and follow the case when it happened.  He's evil.  What also scares me is how many people didn't want to accept that until he literally admitted it.  When he said he didn't do it people *wanted *to believe him. When he said she killed the kids people *wanted *to believe that when he admitted it many were in disbelief. I do understand not wanting to prejudge for the worst but man it scares me how unaware many are of danger that's disarming.  Old boy killed his entire household including his daughter who often sang "my daddy is my hero" like it was nothing and  only cried when he got caught.


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## MizAvalon

If he truly wanted a new life, why didn’t he just walk away and never see her or the kids again? Men do it all the time. He would have had to pay child support yes, but he could have gone off with his mistress or any other woman and just acted like his first family never existed. Men do this every single day!

He didn’t have to do what he did to get what he wanted. He’s a straight up psycho.


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## msbettyboop

Lylddlebit said:


> I did watch this and follow the case when it happened.  He's evil.  What also scares me is how many people didn't want to accept that until he literally admitted it.  When he said he didn't do it people *wanted *to believe him. When he said she killed the kids people *wanted *to believe that when he admitted it many were in disbelief. I do understand not wanting to prejudge for the worst but man it scares me how unaware many are of danger that's disarming.  Old boy killed his entire household including his daughter who often sang "my daddy is my hero" like it was nothing and  only cried when he got caught.



Yeah, when the video panned to Bella singing "Daddy, you're my hero," I just burst into tears. How can you hurt a little angel like that? Those kids were so stinking cute. Why? He could have basically disappeared and become a dead beat dad like millions of men....


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## msbettyboop

Another thing that really got me was he drove for one hour with those girls in the back of his car. Even if he killed Shannan in a fit of passion or whatever, the rage or whatever should have disseminated over a 1-hour drive giving room for reassessment and making a different decision YET he still went ahead and killed his kids. And didn't shed any tears until he was caught in the interrogation. Premium grade psychopath...


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## OhTall1

My question was: did he really think he was going to pass the lie detector test?  When the technician was like "You know it would be stupid to take this test if you did it", I couldn't believe he just sat there and let them question him when he knew he did it.

And according to this, regular degular lying gets you a score of -4.  He got a -18!


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## msbettyboop

OhTall1 said:


> My question was: did he really think he was going to pass the lie detector test?  When the technician was like "You know it would be stupid to take this test if you did it", I couldn't believe he just sat there and let them question him when he knew he did it.
> 
> And according to this, regular degular lying gets you a score of -4.  He got a -18!



That one got me too. I was like, so you just gon sit there and go through with it KNOWING you did it, uhn? 

Thank God for dumb ass criminals and master interrogators. 

How he ever thought he could get away with it is beyond me. Even if Nicole hadn't shown up and the neighbour hadn't snitched, he still couldn't have gotten away with it. Her persona and lifestyle do not have room to support the theory that she would just take the kids and leave without a word. 

I also think the trifling heaux bag he was messing with was involved in some way. Not pushing him to murder his family exactly but her behavior is highly suspect.....


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## MizAvalon

OhTall1 said:


> My question was: did he really think he was going to pass the lie detector test?  When the technician was like "You know it would be stupid to take this test if you did it", I couldn't believe he just sat there and let them question him when he knew he did it.
> 
> And according to this, regular degular lying gets you a score of -4.  He got a -18!



I think he most likely wanted to be caught. His story was ridiculous, he voluntarily took the test knowing he would fail it, even the place he dumped the bodies was his old job! Scooby and Shaggy could have figured it out.


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## Lylddlebit

OhTall1 said:


> My question was: did he really think he was going to pass the lie detector test?  When the technician was like "You know it would be stupid to take this test if you did it", I couldn't believe he just sat there and let them question him when he knew he did it.
> 
> And according to this, regular degular lying gets you a score of -4.  He got a -18!




Some people are so used to getting away with lying  and crap in general that getting caught and finally being held accountable is the surprise.


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## Ganjababy

I think something was off with his family also. I would have loved to have delved into his family dynamics growing up. I think he is a product of nature and nurture. His mother knowingly giving her grandchild food she knew she was allergic to and his father seemed too quick to forgive him for those terrible crimes. Something was off with his parents.


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## msbettyboop

Ganjababy said:


> I think something was off with his family also. I would have loved to have delved into his family dynamics growing up. I think he is a product of nature and nurture. His mother knowingly giving her grandchild food she knew she was allergic to and his father seemed too quick to forgive him for those terrible crimes. Something was off with his parents.



I went into the family dynamics when I went down the rabbit hole of this case in 2018. Basically, his mother and sister are very controlling and dominating and more or less emasculated him. They also did not go to his wedding and his mother never stopped saying Shannan isn't good enough. If you look at all the information, you will see that this fool just goes with the flow to please even when he doesn't like it and never speaks up when it's needed. He also does everything to avoid confrontation. 

He went from that to Shannan who is also controlling and dominating in her own way. My thing is but she was that way when they were courting. It wasn't some new thing that just showed up out of the blue. 

Additionally, his crazy mother almost poisoned his kid by giving her food she was allergic to and he never handled his mother despite Shannan pushing him.

Instead of dealing with all that, he just chose to erase the family. His new Miss Thang was likely another controlling and dominating woman. That is who he is because of how he was brought up. His entire family is completely off. 

Whatever Shannan was, she definitely didn't deserve to be strangled.


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## msbettyboop

ElegantPearl17 said:


> What were the specific signs he had in college?



Somehow missed this. I don't want to go into too much detail but I will recount one specific incident. We were on the way to study hall and started an argument on the stairs. This was a very long set of stairs. We were about 80% up the stairs when the argument started. I don't remember what it was about. Anyhoo, I said I didn't agree and he suddenly stopped on the stairs, turned to face me and gnarled, "Who do you think you're raising your voice to?" I responded, "Excuse me?"

His eyes went blank and he moved towards me and grabbed my hand. "I said who do you think you're yelling at?" Then he looked over my shoulder down the stairs. In that instant, I knew he wanted to push me down the stairs for challenging him. It was 11 pm and the area was quiet. I felt very afraid and tried to step back but he squeezed my hand even harder then started moving closer. I had on a backpack full of heavy books so one little push was all it would take. Suddenly, I heard a string of voices from down the stairs. Some students were coming up.

The glazed look in his eyes disappeared and he stepped back and said, "Baby, come on, let's go and study. Let's not fight." And everything was back to normal. When I brought it up later, he said my imagination was getting away from me.

I will come back to that look again. I'm not sure how to describe it beyond his eyes went blank. I am 100% certain if those group of students hadn't turned up, he would have pushed me down the stairs and said it was an accident.


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## naturalgyrl5199

msbettyboop said:


> Somehow missed this. I don't want to go into too much detail but I will recount one specific incident. We were on the way to study hall and started an argument on the stairs. This was a very long set of stairs. We were about 80% up the stairs when the argument started. I don't remember what it was about. Anyhoo, I said I didn't agree and he suddenly stopped on the stairs, turned to face me and gnarled, "Who do you think you're raising your voice to?" I responded, "Excuse me?"
> 
> His eyes went blank and he moved towards me and grabbed my hand. "I said who do you think you're yelling at?" Then he looked over my shoulder down the stairs. In that instant, I knew he wanted to push me down the stairs for challenging him. It was 11 pm and the area was quiet. I felt very afraid and tried to step back but he squeezed my hand even harder then started moving closer. I had on a backpack full of heavy books so one little push was all it would take. Suddenly, I heard a string of voices from down the stairs. Some students were coming up.
> 
> The glazed look in his eyes disappeared and he stepped back and said, "Baby, come on, let's go and study. Let's not fight." And everything was back to normal. When I brought it up later, he said my imagination was getting away from me.
> 
> I will come back to that look again. I'm not sure how to describe it beyond his eyes went blank. I am 100% certain if those group of students hadn't turned up, he would have pushed me down the stairs and said it was an accident.


Lord have mercy.
He would have killed you. I'm certain.


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## Chicoro

msbettyboop said:


> Somehow missed this. I don't want to go into too much detail but I will recount one specific incident. We were on the way to study hall and started an argument on the stairs. This was a very long set of stairs. We were about 80% up the stairs when the argument started. I don't remember what it was about. Anyhoo, I said I didn't agree and he suddenly stopped on the stairs, turned to face me and gnarled, "Who do you think you're raising your voice to?" I responded, "Excuse me?"
> 
> His eyes went blank and he moved towards me and grabbed my hand. "I said who do you think you're yelling at?" Then he looked over my shoulder down the stairs. In that instant, I knew he wanted to push me down the stairs for challenging him. It was 11 pm and the area was quiet. I felt very afraid and tried to step back but he squeezed my hand even harder then started moving closer. I had on a backpack full of heavy books so one little push was all it would take. Suddenly, I heard a string of voices from down the stairs. Some students were coming up.
> 
> The glazed look in his eyes disappeared and he stepped back and said, "Baby, come on, let's go and study. Let's not fight." And everything was back to normal. When I brought it up later, he said my imagination was getting away from me.
> 
> I will come back to that look again. I'm not sure how to describe it beyond his eyes went blank. I am 100% certain if those group of students hadn't turned up, he would have pushed me down the stairs and said it was an accident.




This, I am familiar with. When people are evil and crazy, it is as if their face falls away, as if it were a mask. Then the ugliness of their soul shines clear and bright. Then they catch themselves and adjust the mask that is the face they show to the world. It happens so quick, the view of that real ugliness, you are not quite sure you saw what you saw. 

I believe when you get that glimpse, you are not seeing them with your physical eyes. I believe you are seeing them with your Spiritual eyes. Their souls are so foul that they may have a stench. You may not be able to smell it, but you can sense it.  

I just recently had an experience with someone this week. It was with a woman. That 'mask ' drop is common. Trust what you see, ladies. Protect yourselves accordingly.


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