# Do you celebrate Easter and/or Christmas?



## tffy2004 (Sep 30, 2007)

*The poll is for Christmas only!!!!!*​Just want to know how many celebrate them. And I would also like to know if anyone has researched the origins of Christmas and Easter (_not passover but Easter the one that has to do with eggs, and chocolate bunnies_)?


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## sexyaqr (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, I have done extensive research on both celebrations and their origins are far from 'Christian'. It is rooted in pagan customs. It was just dressed up to make it seem 'Christian'. So in answer, I do not celebrate either


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## sexyaqr (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, I have done extensive research on both celebrations and their origins are far from 'Christian'. It is rooted in pagan customs. It was just dressed up to make it seem 'Christian'. So in answer, I do not celebrate either


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## tffy2004 (Sep 30, 2007)

I too have been researching the origins of many holidays and later this week I plan on going to the library to do more. But I found a very enlightening article. Here is the link to it: The Origin of Christmas

When you go to it have your Bible handy so you can read the scriptures for yourself and see that they are really in the Bible.


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## KnottyGurl (Sep 30, 2007)

What Sexyaqr said  Even if I did celebrate it, I would not have a consumer christmas. When Christ was born, they didn't exchange gifts, they gave gifts to Him to celebrate His birth. I think we have something like today already...yeah, birthdays. If the day is about Him, it should be about Him only. Gifts only dilute your intentions. JMO Anyway, I give and share year-round.



sexyaqr said:


> Yes, I have done extensive research on both celebrations and their origins are far from 'Christian'. It is rooted in pagan customs. It was just dressed up to make it seem 'Christian'. So in answer, I do not celebrate either


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## alexstin (Sep 30, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> *The poll is for Christmas only!!!!!*​Just want to know how many celebrate them. And I would also like to know if anyone has researched the origins of Christmas and Easter (_not passover but Easter the one that has to do with eggs, and chocolate bunnies_)?




Yes, I celebrate but I don't do easter bunnies, eggs and the kids know who gives them gifts and it isn't santa. I do know the origins. I don't believe it's about the origins but moreso the meaning you give to it. 

Have you ever checked the origins of alot of things the church does? Baptism, which as we know, Jesus participated in and commanded us to do has pagan origins. He used it for His own purposes. Sometimes it's not about the history but what it is used for now.


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## StrawberryQueen (Sep 30, 2007)

alexstin said:


> Yes, I celebrate but I don't do easter bunnies, eggs and the kids know who gives them gifts and it isn't santa. I do know the origins. I don't believe it's about the origins but moreso the meaning you give to it.
> 
> Have you ever checked the origins of alot of things the church does? Baptism, which as we know, Jesus participated in and commanded us to do has pagan origins. He used it for His own purposes. Sometimes it's not about the history but what it is used for now.


I agree.    And I celebrate both, you're still giving glory to God, right?


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## ShaniKeys (Sep 30, 2007)

I do celebrate it, but not as 'Jesus' birthday', to me it's more of a time to spend with the family.


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## tffy2004 (Sep 30, 2007)

alexstin said:


> Yes, I celebrate but I don't do easter bunnies, eggs and the kids know who gives them gifts and it isn't santa. I do know the origins. I don't believe it's about the origins but moreso the meaning you give to it.
> 
> Have you ever checked the origins of alot of things the church does? Baptism, which as we know, Jesus participated in and commanded us to do has pagan origins. He used it for His own purposes. Sometimes it's not about the history but what it is used for now.



I am actually in the process of checking the origins of things churches and pastors do. I never thought to check on the origins of Baptism, thanks for mentioning it.


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## tffy2004 (Sep 30, 2007)

Did anyone read the article from that site I linked? If not I will just paste it here, it may look like a lot to read but it really isn't. If you don't want to read then watch this on youtube 26 minute 3 part video over the Origins of Christmas

*There is a second part I had to put in the next post cause it was too long.......*

*********************************************************
*THE ORIGIN OF CHRISTMAS* 
On December 25 of every year the majority of the Christian world (Christendom) celebrate the birth of Christ through many handed down traditions including, setting up a decorated tree, exchanging gifts, spreading folk tales about Santa Claus, festivities, and lighting decorations, just to name a few. Where does the annual celebration of Christmas come from? You might be amazed at what can be found in the Bible regarding the origin of Christmas and finding out the actual season of Christ's birth. It is a *LITTLE KNOWN FACT OF THE BIBLE.* 

*The Historical Background of Christmas: * 
 Christmas is believed by most to be the celebration of the birthday of Jesus Christ. The majority of so-called Christian religions accept Christmas as an essential part of their traditions, and few ever question when or how the whole celebration actually started. All of the usual gift-giving, festivity and decorations are supposedly in honor of the nativity of the Son of God, but a look at some historical information, coupled with Biblical facts, proves otherwise. Although it is considered to be a religious observance, this holiday originated from an ancient pagan festival and is contrary to the teachings of the Bible. 


 The time and place of the first Christmas celebration is not known; although history seems to indicate a date after the last great persecution of Christians as late as the third century.1 The observance of Christmas is not of "divine appointment", nor is it of New Testament origin.2 It is definite that the earliest followers of Christ did not observe Christmas: They did not even observe their own birthdays.3 It is believed that Pope Julius I declared Christ's birth to be celebrated on December 25th around 350A.D. The first time December 25th was referred to in any document as being Christmas Day, was 354A.D.4 By the fourth century, Christmas became an official holiday in Rome and most other parts of the so-called Christian world. 


 There are many speculations as to why the celebration of the birth of Christ does not appear earlier. Perhaps the most obvious is the fact that there is no record in history, scriptural or otherwise, from which the date of Christ's birth can be determined.5 It was not until several centuries after Jesus Christ lived and died on the earth that December 25 came to be recognized as his birthday. This date, in view of astronomers, historians, and Bible scholars, is decidedly not the correct date of his birth, nor does it rest on historical findings more than any other.6 The selection of December 25 as Jesus' birthday was due simply to the fact that it coincided with the winter solstice.7 


 The date of December 25th was originally known as the feast of Natalis Invicti Solis, or the "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun".8 The celebration, also known as the Roman Saturnalia (in honor of their god of agriculture, Saturn), was an annual feast long before the birth of Christ. The Saturnalia was actually a week-long celebration, with the final day being the Brumalia, or the first day of winter. According to the Julian calendar, that day fell on December 25. 


 The celebration of Saturnalia was the greatest of all pagan festivals. It was a once-a-year time to indulge in feasting, drinking, the exchanging of gifts, and merrymaking in general. Although Saturnalia is more attributed to be of Roman origin, the ancient Babylonians celebrated the feast of the son of Isis (goddess of nature) on December 25. Boisterous celebration, with gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast as well.10 


 The pagan tribes of northern Europe also celebrated their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the birth of the pagan sun god, Mithras, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. They believed as the sun god grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras--and the sun--to reappear the following year. Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun as well. The word Yule itself means "wheel", the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun.11 When pagan Germanic tribes (the Franks and the Alemans) found the Romans celebrating solstice during their early invasions, they, liking the custom, incorporated it into their own type of religion.12 Even the early Egyptians celebrated a mid-winter festival. They claimed their god Horus, the son of Isis, was born near the end of December.


By the time Christianity took root in Rome, the Saturnalia was a popular and well-known festival among the pagan people. Consequently, the clergy of the day found this fact rather hard to deal with in converting the pagans to their religion. The religious leaders (predominately those of the outset of the Catholic church) realized they could not stop the Saturnalia from being celebrated, so they converted it--as well as the Romans themselves--to their beliefs.14 Authorities of the Roman Catholic church felt it was a wise idea to give a "sacred" meaning to pagan observances, rather than to discourage possible converts by eliminating their celebrations entirely. When the Emperor Constantine decreed Christianity as the "new faith" of the Roman Empire, the Saturnalia then became known as "The Mass of Christ", and was changed to honor the birth of Christ rather than the sun.15 Constantine could see no conflict between what he viewed as "Christianity" and the predominant Roman sun-worship. The result was an accommodation of the beliefs and practices of the two. 


 With the celebration of Christmas set in place of the Saturnalia, religious authorities felt the holiday should be observed as a strictly religious one, instructing the people to celebrate it "after a heavenly manner, not an earthly manner."17 Although many people refused to celebrate the "new" holiday altogether, because it reminded them of the old pagan festival, the Christmas celebration closely resembled the Saturnalia for many centuries, with much feasting, drinking, and merrymaking. 


 As Christmas progressed through the years, many customs of the Saturnalia continued to persist. Finding they could not entirely abolish certain rituals, religious leaders expelled the worst features and changed them to seem "religious". Consequently, many of the customs observed even today at the Christmas season evolved from practices used long before that holiday ever began. Customs have become a mixture of pagan, religious, and cultural practices, as well as legend, superstition, and tradition.18 
Christmas greenery and the Christmas tree are two such "adopted" customs, which originated directly from the Saturnalia. At the winter solstice, the Romans decorated their homes with boughs of laurel, evergreen trees and others. The Germanic observance of the solstice used holly, ivy and bay for both decoration and in their religious rites. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods. In northern Europe, evergreen branches were used as a "devil-defying" means, and mistletoe was offered as a sacrifice to idols and was also linked to legends of their so-called gods. The use of the Christmas tree dates back to the early Druidic practice of tree worship. Later, when Christmas came to be celebrated, the tree supposedly became a tribute to baby Jesus, replacing the sacrifices offered to the trees. The sacrifices made to the fir and oak by the pagan religions were often human ones. 


 Many people associate gift-giving with the wise men and their presents to the young Christ, but that practice is also of pagan origin. The Romans exchanged "good luck" presents during the Saturnalia. During that festival, the wealthy gave gifts to the poor in honor of the "golden age of liberty when the god Saturn ruled the known world".20 Other customs such as candles, the yule log, and the baking of small cakes and cookies began as pagan customs that were changed to supposedly honor the birth of Jesus Christ.


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## tffy2004 (Sep 30, 2007)

Part 2: 


*The Biblical Perspective: * 
 The Bible provides some evidence, which shows that December 25 is the incorrect date for Jesus' birth. From the Biblical description, many historians believe that his birth probably occurred in the Fall.21 In Luke 2:8 it is written: "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." Meteorologists have found December in Bethlehem to be quite cold, with the average temperature ranging near freezing to slightly above. December and January is also the time of year Bethlehem receives its greatest amount of precipitation. The climate has not changed to any great extent over the last 2,000 years, so it is highly unlikely the shepherds would be camped in the fields if it were so cold. To add to this, the Talmud (the body of Jewish law) states the flocks were put out to grass in March and were brought in at the beginning of November. In present Palestine, both animals and shepherds are under cover at the Christmas season.22 


 There is another clue in the Bible book of Daniel, which explains how Christ's earthly ministry was only to last for 3-1/2 years. He began that ministry when he turned 30 years old (Luke 3:21-23). The scriptures also show he was killed at the Jewish Passover (John 18:39), which occurred in the Spring, so it stands to reason that he would have to have been born in the Fall of the year. 


 Another Christmas belief disproved by the scriptures is that of the Magi, or wise men, arriving at the manger the night of Jesus' birth. The account in Luke 2:8-17 tells how the shepherds, not the wise men, found the baby lying in a manger after receiving word from an angel. This was the "sign" the angel told them to look for. The wise men, at a later time, traveled from another country, observing and following a star. When they arrived to offer their gifts to Jesus, they found the young child, not a baby, with Mary his mother in a house. (Matthew 2:9-11) There is a difference between the shepherds finding a "babe in a manger" and the wise men who found Jesus as a "young child in a house". It is also unclear how many wise men there actually were. Matthew 2:11 mentions three gifts presented to Jesus by them, but does not list the number of wise men who were there. 


 Another point in Matthew 2:16 explains what happened when King Herod of Judea discovered that the wise men had not returned to tell him where Jesus was: Herod became very angry and sent out a decree that all children, two years old and under, in Bethlehem and the surrounding coasts were to be killed. If Jesus were but an infant at the time, it seems unlikely that Herod would have deemed it necessary to kill the children up to the age of two years old. It appears he made this determination "...according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men." 


 There are other scriptures in opposition to the celebration of Christmas. There is no passage in the Bible that instructs people to celebrate Christ's birthday, or to celebrate any birthday for that matter. Ecclesiastes 7:1 says that the day of death is better than the day of one's birth, and Ecclesiastes 7:8 states that, "Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof..." 


 There are only two birthday "celebrations" mentioned in the Bible. One was that of Pharaoh and the other of King Herod, both wicked men whose birthdays were each commemorated with a feast--and an execution. The account of Pharaoh's birthday in Genesis 40:20-22 tells how he hanged his chief baker. On Herod's birthday, John the Baptist was beheaded: "But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod. Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask. And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger. And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison." (Matthew 14:6-8, 10) This same account is given in Mark 6:21-28. 


 Some people argue that celebrating Christmas is just "innocent fun" that has nothing to do with observing pagan customs. But Christ did not tell his followers to celebrate his birthday or to commemorate his birth with a feast or pagan customs. Through God's true ministers in the Bible, who include the prophets and apostles, our Creator has warned of learning pagan customs. The prophet Jeremiah was instructed to write: "Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (Jeremiah 10:2-4) 


 The apostle Paul gave this warning: "Previously, however, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to gods that essentially are not gods. But now, when you know God, or better yet, are known by God, how is it that you are turning back again to those weak and beggarly rudiments to which you want to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months, festivals and years. You make me fear that perhaps I wasted my efforts on you." (Galatians 4:8-11, Revised Berkeley Version) 


 God commanded His people not to learn the ways of the heathen nations, knowing if they did, it could turn them away from following what was right. In Deuteronomy 18:9, God warned: "When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations." See verse 14 also. Psalm 106:34-43 explains what happened when His people disobeyed Him by learning the ways of the heathen. 


 Can Christmas be right when it is founded on the pagan customs God warned us about? The celebration has remained much the same for centuries, retaining many pagan traditions which clearly have no scriptural association and which God opposes. Study of God's true word in the Bible teaches a person to question what things are right or wrong, what ways to follow, and what to avoid. The Bible is the guidebook Jehovah God has provided so an individual can make those distinctions. His instructions are to be taken seriously and followed. The apostle Paul wrote: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16) He also wrote: "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." (Ephesians 5:11) 


 Many people do not consider the reason that Jesus Christ, God's Son, was born as a man on the earth. It was not to give an excuse for festivity, but to fulfill the ministry his Father sent him to do. Christ came preaching about the good news of the new kingdom (government) which he and his heavenly Father would one day establish, and he taught how individuals could become a part of it. At the end of his earthly ministry, he was killed to become the sacrifice for those who wanted to be partakers of that offering. In John 9:4, Christ said, "I must do the works of him that sent me..." In Luke 4:43 he said, "...I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent." Another quote of Jesus Christ in Mark 10:45 says, "For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."
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## tffy2004 (Oct 1, 2007)

alexstin said:


> Yes, I celebrate but I don't do easter bunnies, eggs and the kids know who gives them gifts and it isn't santa. I do know the origins. I don't believe it's about the origins but moreso the meaning you give to it.
> 
> Have you ever checked the origins of alot of things the church does? Baptism, which as we know, Jesus participated in and commanded us to do has pagan origins. He used it for His own purposes. Sometimes it's not about the history but what it is used for now.



As for Baptism Jesus commanded us to do this and its in the bible and he did this himself. I disagree with the underlined statement above 
A Christmas-like celebration is only mentioned once in the Bible and it states:

Jeremiah 10:2-5
_2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. __   3*For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. *_
_*   4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.* _
_   5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; *for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.*_


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I would call it a duck.


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## dicapr (Oct 2, 2007)

I celebrate Xmas, not as the birthday of Jesus, but as a celebration of family.  My dad canceled Christmas in our house when I was 8 years old with the promise that we would have our own family holiday.  But when he canceled Christmas, he canceled a special time of the year when we focused on family.  There was no special season for reminicing, spending time, thinking of each other, or anticipation of a special time together.  We tried to have so called "Family Day".  I was supposed to be a few days where we would have a small vacation, presents and fun.  It never happened.  Unfortunately without commercialism, my dad was less than motivated to have scheduled family time.  In highschool I announced that I would be celebrating Xmas.  I told my family that I would be buying them gifts, and that I did not expect anthing in return.  That started Xmas in my family again.  The return of family time was amazing.  Anytime someone talks about not having alot of money for Xmas, other members remind them that cookies are always welcome.  We just want to know that they are thinking of us.  I can not think of a reason to not celebrate a holiday in which people are expressing Christ-like behaviors such as self-lessness, kindness, and celebrating family.  I decorated for along time without a tree because of its pegan history.  I now have a small one.  I am not worshiping the tree like the pegans in the bible did.  Many customs are based in peganism.  Actually, even wearing clothes has its orgin in sin.  We all must do as we are led.  I know that Christmas isn't Jesus' birthday.  There is no Santa in our house for my niece and nephew.  It is just a time of food, fun, and yes, presents.


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## Shimmie (Oct 2, 2007)

We celebrate both and love it...

Yes, I go all out with Christmas decor to the max, yet Jesus is the focus of it all and my babies know it and live it.  We know and teach our children that Christmas is not the actual time of birth of Jesus, yet it is when the entire world takes off a day to remember God's gift to us.  His gift of Eternal Life...Jesus Christ, our Messiah. 

For as long as we can remember, Christmas has been acknowledged worldwide.  Not necessarily celebrated by all, but still acknowledged worldwide and remembered....for even wars have declared a 'cease-fire' on this day and it was respected as such.  I wish it were still so. 

For us, Easter, is the celebration of Jesus Christ and His Ressurection; it's the time of year that we acknowledge His life and blood which He gave for us to live again with Him eternally.  

And yes, we allow the children (my babies) to have eggs and decorate them, it's a fun activity for them.  But the focus is that from the egg is life and that it's not about the Easter bunny.  The only thing hopping is praising Jesus... :heart2:

*Just for the record*...as Christians, we do not celebrate neither participate in Halloween.   It is a satanic ritual which we do not put into practice in our family or our homes or our Church.


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## tffy2004 (Oct 2, 2007)

dicapr said:


> Actually, even wearing clothes has its orgin in sin.



What do you mean by this?


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 2, 2007)

The Bible says this in Colossians 2: 16 & 17

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by  what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon  celebration or a Sabbath day. 

These are a shadow of the things that were to come; *the  reality, however, is found in Christ.*

I love the Word of God.  If we really look deep into what the Word says by His Holy Spirit, He reveals so much to us and helps us to understand.

The key words here are in the bolded.  That's what I focus on and that is what will remain in my heart.

Blessings!


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## tffy2004 (Oct 2, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> The Bible says this in Colossians 2: 16 & 17
> 
> Therefore do not let anyone judge you by  what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon  celebration or a Sabbath day.
> 
> ...



I don't know if I over looked your post or what, but do you celebrate christmas?

What are you referring to with Colossians 2:16-17? Are you saying that Christmas is a religious holiday? It's not clear to me what you are saying.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 2, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> I don't know if I over looked your post or what, but do you celebrate christmas?
> 
> What are you referring to with Colossians 2:16-17? Are you saying that Christmas is a religious holiday? It's not clear to me what you are saying.



To answer your first question, yes I do.

To answer your second question, the scripture speaks for itself.  Even if people choose to celebrate Christmas as a holiday and honor Jesus with it, no one should be judge because they do.  The importance should be Jesus Christ.

For those who don't celebrate Christmas, I for one don't say they are wrong or right...that's not my place to do so.  That is why I shared the scripture in Colossians.  

As believers, sometimes we can begin to put stumbling blocks before others because we feel this is right or that is wrong.  We must always be mindful of what we are doing/saying.

The whole point of us being who we are is to glorify God.  If we turn that into we shouldn't do this or that, what does it become then?

To each his own.  We all will have to answer to God.  I just have to do my part in the way He desires of me to do.

Hope that helped explain what I said!

Blessings.


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## gradygirl (Oct 2, 2007)

I celebrate Christmas and I love to decorate my Christmas tree however I do not believe in telling the Santa Clause thing because I work to hard for my money and no imaginary dude is getting the credit for it. I also celebrate Easter as resurrection day and I dont have a problem with coloring easter eggs and easter baskets. I dont try to get to serious about things like this because children should be allowed to be children and have fun with these holidays as I did when I was a child. I just try to be careful when it comes to religion and children because you can turn a child away from the things of God by being too strict about certain things. I remember a boy that I started school with and his family did not believe in celebrating any holiday. I remember he could not participate with us when we would have Christmas parties or hunt easter eggs. I used to feel so sorry for him because he was always so sad when he would see us do these things. Maybe remembering the hurt I saw in that little boy is the reason why I am so careful. His parents would not even let him play with us I dont know why maybe we were not sanctified enough. Well I have never seen him in church since we have been grown and the last I heard of him we was on crack cocaine. I mean all the rules and regulations sanctioned on that kid by his parents and he still has to deal with some bad things just like some of the other heathen children that were not appropriate for him to be around. I just pray that he finds his way to the Lord. Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving day were the best times in my life especially as a child. To each his own when it comes to things like this but I thank God my parents let us experience those things because we sure had fun.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 2, 2007)

gradygirl said:


> I celebrate Christmas and I love to decorate my Christmas tree however *I do not believe in telling the Santa Clause thing because I work to hard for my money and no imaginary dude is getting the credit for it*. I also celebrate Easter as resurrection day and I dont have a problem with coloring easter eggs and easter baskets. I dont try to get to serious about things like this because children should be allowed to be children and have fun with these holidays as I did when I was a child. I just try to be careful when it comes to religion and children because you can turn a child away from the things of God by being too strict about certain things. I remember a boy that I started school with and his family did not believe in celebrating any holiday. I remember he could not participate with us when we would have Christmas parties or hunt easter eggs. I used to feel so sorry for him because he was always so sad when he would see us do these things. Maybe remembering the hurt I saw in that little boy is the reason why I am so careful. His parents would not even let him play with us I dont know why maybe we were not sanctified enough. Well I have never seen him in church since we have been grown and the last I heard of him we was on crack cocaine. I just pray that he finds his way to the Lord. Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving day were the best times in my life especially as a child. To each his own when it comes to things like this but I thank God my parents let us experience those things because we sure had fun.


 
...I'm sorry, but the bolded had me giggle.


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## tffy2004 (Oct 2, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> To answer your first question, yes I do.
> 
> To answer your second question, the scripture speaks for itself.  Even if people choose to celebrate Christmas as a holiday and honor Jesus with it, no one should be judge because they do.  The importance should be Jesus Christ.
> 
> ...



Yes it did clear it up alot, thank you for explaining it.
One last question. Do you regard Christmas as a "religious festival" or "holyday"?


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 2, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> Yes it did clear it up alot, thank you for explaining it.
> One last question. Do you regard Christmas as a "religious festival" or "holyday"?


 
You're welcome, sis.

I do consider my celebration of Christmas as a Holy Day for me.  

Blessings


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## dicapr (Oct 3, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> What do you mean by this?


 

Originally, humans were naked.  Clothing was introduced as a result of the original  sin, therefore it is a product of sin.  God's original plan was for mankind to be naked.  Without sinful lust and thoughts, the human body was free to be displayed.  Sin is the reason we need to cover up.


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## Shimmie (Oct 3, 2007)

dicapr said:


> Originally, humans were naked. Clothing was introduced as a result of the original sin, therefore it is a product of sin. God's original plan was for mankind to be naked. Without sinful lust and thoughts, the human body was free to be displayed. Sin is the reason we need to cover up.


Now, it is a sin NOT to cover up... 

"Do not uncover her nakedness...."


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## alexstin (Oct 3, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> *Now, it is a sin NOT to cover up... *



That just sounds so funny.


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## Shimmie (Oct 3, 2007)

alexstin said:


> That just sounds so funny.


 
I know and I've got a lot of nerve too.... My neckline is showing today.  Shame on me.


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## tffy2004 (Oct 3, 2007)

Deleted so I wouldn't make anyone feel bad, Sorry, that was not my intention, AT ALL.


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## Shimmie (Oct 3, 2007)

Life itsself is one big celebration worth celebrating.   In the Old Testiment the Jews had many, many feasts, sabbaths, and celebrations and are still carried out to this day.  The festival of Lights (Channakah), and many, many more.  I live in a Jewish community and there's always a celebration going on.  Always...and it's wonderful for Life is wonderful. 

Weddings, the birth of a child, circumcisions, *all of life* has something to celebrate.  Jesus said to 'occupy until I come' and we have also been given by God the gift to enjoy the fruit of our labor (Eccl 3 and 5).  

Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands.  Praise God for giving us eternal life through Jesus.  Praise God for giving us joy and a way to express it.   Yes, though the world has taken what God has given and have made mockery and minimal of it's meaning, yet we who love God place the true love and meaning into these occasions, and allow God to be glorified for all that He has done.  

When Christmas comes, make it ours and keep so.  When Easter comes, indeed celebrate the ressurection of Life given to us so freely.  Celebrate however gives God glory.   For if we keep silent, about our faith and the celebration of it, the world will surely take over what we call ours and feed it to the dogs as it were any other day. 

Each day is a celebration of Life and God's love and mercies, yet to pronounce a selected day is even greater for it is a declaration which shows satan that he is not the one celebrated...God is and always will be.  :heart2:  

Blessings to all, those who do and / or don't, you are loved and blessed.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

You know, it's so interesting to me how a member would start a thread, ask questions, we all answer in what we may know that is right for us, and then come in and leave a post that would make other members feel as though we are wrong for feeling this way and then, say this is the last time they are going to come into the thread and then leave it at that.

Personally, I think its wrong for believers to do this.  It's trickery as far as I'm concerned.  Yeah, there may be others that will come in with their "well....blah, blah" but you know what, anything I say I say out of love for the believers and non-believers on this board and I wouldn't do this to them...its just not right.

From now on, if anyone comes in with these types of questions, I'm going to not answer them.  I don't like being put out like this at all.

So, yes this post is in love, and I could have done it in a PM, but what I'm referring to wasn't done in a PM, but for all to see, therefore, I shared the love.

Thanks.


----------



## Mocha5 (Oct 3, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> To answer your first question, yes I do.
> 
> To answer your second question, the scripture speaks for itself. Even if people choose to celebrate Christmas as a holiday and honor Jesus with it, no one should be judge because they do. The importance should be Jesus Christ.
> 
> ...


 
Well said.  I'm one of those who celebrate Christmas too...actually all of the holidays.  I'm guilty as charged.  But as for the ones you asked about in addition to bringing my kids so much joy, they provide yet another opportunity to share our love for Chirst together, with our church family, and with others who may not know Him.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> Life itsself is one big celebration worth celebrating. In the Old Testiment the Jews had many, many feasts, sabbaths, and celebrations and are still carried out to this day. The festival of Lights (Channakah), and many, many more. I live in a Jewish community and there's always a celebration going on. Always...and it's wonderful for Life is wonderful.
> 
> Weddings, the birth of a child, circumcisions, *all of life* has something to celebrate. Jesus said to 'occupy until I come' and we have also been given by God the gift to enjoy the fruit of our labor (Eccl 3 and 5).
> 
> ...


 
Thank you, Shimmie.  This was a post from your heart and it speaks volumes to us who love to celebrate life in the areas that God allows us too.  

You are always a blessing to this forum.  Keep on keeping on!

Luv ya!


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

Mocha5 said:


> Well said. I'm one of those who celebrate Christmas too...actually all of the holidays. I'm guilty as charged. But as for the ones you asked about in addition to bringing my kids so much joy, they provide yet another opportunity to share our love for Chirst together, with our church family, and with others who may not know Him.


 
Thanks, Mocha for your honesty and sincerity.  You are a blessing in this forum.

Blessings.


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## springbreeze (Oct 3, 2007)

yes i do, and enjoy that season of the year very much.
our family and friends come together, some we haven't seen in a while
cooking; laughing;sharing;giving;receiving; 

enjoying the kids anticipation and surprise and some of the adults as they open their gifts

may i humbly say, as long as we KNOW who we serve; worship ;celebrate
which is the Lord Jesus Christ, celebrating christmas will not taint us.

just my humble opinion


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

springbreeze said:


> yes i do, and enjoy that season of the year very much.
> our family and friends come together, some we haven't seen in a while
> cooking; laughing;sharing;giving;receiving;
> 
> ...


 
Thank you so much for saying this.


----------



## tffy2004 (Oct 3, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> You know, it's so interesting to me how a member would start a thread, ask questions, we all answer in what we may know that is right for us, and then come in and leave a post that would make other members feel as though we are wrong for feeling this way and then, say this is the last time they are going to come into the thread and then leave it at that.
> 
> Personally, I think its wrong for believers to do this.  It's trickery as far as I'm concerned.  Yeah, there may be others that will come in with their "well....blah, blah" but you know what, anything I say I say out of love for the believers and non-believers on this board and I wouldn't do this to them...its just not right.
> 
> ...



My last post is not supposed to make anyone feel any certain way, and it really is sad that you had to post this. And if you notice I went back and took out the first paragraph of my response. Just so I could post again.

Don't make me out to be a villain in this situation. I came, asked a question, referenced the Bible, got the general consensus of the board and there really was no other reason for me to post in the thread anymore until I read your post which is quoted above.

And if you haven't noticed YES I am offended and Pissed off, and YES you should have PMed me about this. And exactly what is it that I am doing? My intention for this thread was to see what everyone position was on this. It in no form is "trickery". And am not putting anyone out, if you don't like my post or it bothered you then you need to take that up with God, Don't shot the messenger

This is a Christian Fellowship Forum if I can't come here and ask "these type" of questions then where do I post them?


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## Mocha5 (Oct 3, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> My last post is not supposed to make anyone feel any certain way, and it really is sad that you had to post this. And if you notice I went back and took out the first paragraph of my response. Just so I could post again.
> 
> *You didn't have to delete it to post again.  Girl, the only time I delete is when I've been convicted by the Holy Spirit. *
> 
> ...


 
*Don't be offended.  Of course you're not a villian.  We can all learn from one another.  *


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## tffy2004 (Oct 3, 2007)

Mocha5 said:


> *Don't be offended.  Of course you're not a villian.  We can all learn from one another.  *



I know I'm not a villian but thats what it seems she is saying. Sending you a PM about the context of the scriptures.

After I got my consensus there really is no reason for me to post again, whether I like the result or not shouldn't matter, I asked, got my answers, and I was supposed to be done but


----------



## Mocha5 (Oct 3, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> I know I'm not a villian but thats what it seems she is saying. Sending you a PM about the context of the scriptures.
> 
> After I got my consensus there really is no reason for me to post again, whether I like the result or not shouldn't matter, I asked, got my answers, and I was supposed to be done but


 
Don't be done.  Let's resolve it, ok?


----------



## gradygirl (Oct 3, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> You know, it's so interesting to me how a member would start a thread, ask questions, we all answer in what we may know that is right for us, and then come in and leave a post that would make other members feel as though we are wrong for feeling this way and then, say this is the last time they are going to come into the thread and then leave it at that.
> 
> Personally, I think its wrong for believers to do this. It's trickery as far as I'm concerned.* Yeah, there may be others that will come in with their "well....blah, blah" but you know what, anything I say I say out of love for the believers and non-believers on this board* and I wouldn't do this to them...its just not right.
> 
> ...


 
I'm sorry but I take offense to this. I know I answered Tiffs question earlier and this makes it sound like some of us are just saying stuff to be saying it. Every one has different ways of expressing themselves but I'm sure that whatever others have posted was meant out of love as well. It just seems like you are judging Tiffs intent as well as judging others comment as being not as important as yours because yours is supposed to be said out of love. I'm sorry but I dont feel the love in this. If you had a problem with the way she conducted herself in this thread then you should have pm'ed her because God is not the author of confusion. Tiff askes a simple question; she said what she had to say, we either agreed or disagreed. I dont understand; its wrong to judge Juanita Bynum but its okay to judge Tiff. Something is very wrong with this picture.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

Well, alrighty now.

I just logged on a little while ago and what did I see first?  A PM from Tiff.  I read it, answered it and then I came into the thread and what did I see?  The same thing she wrote to me in a PM, she shared it with you all in the thread.  Wow, that speaks volumes to me!

Ummmm...is that something we should be doing on the forum, sharing our PM's with 500 people who viewed the board or to the person its addressed to?

I don't think so.  That's why they are called PM - private message.

Now, I see that there is a statement that said that I should have done a PM about what I said where actually, I never called any names in that post, that was a general statement that I felt needed to be said.  I didn't hide behind the bushes and behind the trees, I said what I needed to say and that was it.

But now, I see that I should have shared that on in PM land...but it not supposed to be the same with the other person.  Ya'll crack me up.

Now, I answered her in a PM.  If Tiff feels that she wants to share my reply to her PM with everyone, be my guest.  I guess it would only be right that they see that too, since they already saw the PM that was sent to me.

What does this have to do with Juanita Bynum?  Nothing right?

Oh, well.  Sometimes I wonder...but, yet and still, I pray for everyone on this forum, Christianity forum and the others.

I don't have time to play games.  The message we should be sharing is the message of Jesus Christ....well, at least that's what I feel.

Blessings to all!


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

gradygirl said:


> *I'm sorry but I take offense to this*. I know I answered Tiffs question earlier and this makes it sound like some of us are just saying stuff to be saying it. Every one has different ways of expressing themselves but I'm sure that whatever others have posted was meant out of love as well. It just seems like you are judging Tiffs intent as well as judging others comment as being not as important as yours because yours is supposed to be said out of love. I'm sorry but I dont feel the love in this. *If you had a problem with the way she conducted herself in this thread then you should have pm'ed her because God is not the author of confusion*. Tiff askes a simple question; she said what she had to say, we either agreed or disagreed. I dont understand; its wrong to judge Juanita Bynum but its okay to judge Tiff. Something is very wrong with this picture.


 
Don't be sorry, if you are offended then you aren't alone.  There were others that were offended by what Tiff said in her post as well.  It happens to the best of us.

If you read my reply, you will see how she truly conducted herself with the PM way of doing things ....Yes, God is not the author of confusion.

Anyway, its all good.  God loves us still, right?


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## gradygirl (Oct 3, 2007)

Like I said God is not the author of confusion. In my best Forrest Gump voice "Thats all I have to say about that"


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

gradygirl said:


> Like I said God is not the author of confusion. In my best Forrest Gump voice "Thats all I have to say about that"


 
Yep....you sounded just like him!


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## KnottyGurl (Oct 3, 2007)

This thread has me ->

And here I am 'fasting' from the OT/ENT forums...

:angeldeviCan't get away from it.

Quoting that famous negro chant, *"Can't we all just get along?"*


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

GeechyGurl said:


> This thread has me ->
> 
> And here I am 'fasting' from the OT/ENT forums...
> 
> ...


 
...you are not alone! I have been spittin' out my crushed ice each and er' time!

Girl, fasting brings out the best subjects...to say the least!

Thanks for the laughter...it's good for the brethren to dwell together in unity!

ETA: I still love your siggy....unique!


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## KnottyGurl (Oct 3, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> ...you are not alone! I have been spittin' out my crushed ice each and er' time!
> 
> Girl, fasting brings out the best subjects...to say the least!
> 
> ...


 
Thank you. I paraphrased a great set of rules created by a well-known Author, so I can't take ALL the credit. 

I'll just take 1% (I hope that's not too much).


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

GeechyGurl said:


> Thank you. I paraphrased a great set of rules created by a well-known Author, so I can't take ALL the credit.
> 
> I'll just take 1% (I hope that's not too much).


 
Well, you can take some of it, cause it sure is perfect for LHCF.

And, ummm.....only 1%...He is gracious...how bout 2%?


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## MrsHouston (Oct 3, 2007)

I choose not to celebrate Easter or Christmas...however I don't push it upon anyone else...I don't celebrate either one b/c Christ never ask us too.  I feel it's man made and with man made things I have free will not to do them.  My family celebrates these days, but understand my feelings on the subject.  It's enough for me to just do the things Christ "has" asked of me...that in itself is a journey and battle.  When some of my friends and family celebrate I respect it.


I hope we all can continue to share stuff here w/o fear of being persecuted for our beliefs.  *This is the suppose to be the "Christian" section, but it seems members get along better in the "Off Topic and Entertainment Section" than here.*  I personally love the dialogs that go on here...I just don't understand why some get upset b/c others don't share their views...

Be Blessed EVERYONE


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

MrsHouston said:


> I choose not to celebrate Easter or Christmas...however I don't push it upon anyone else...I don't celebrate either one b/c Christ never ask us too. I feel it's man made and with man made things I have free will not to do them. My family celebrates these days, but understand my feelings on the subject. It's enough for me to just do the things Christ "has" asked of me...that in itself is a journey and battle. When some of my friends and family celebrate I respect it.
> 
> 
> I hope we all can continue to share stuff here w/o fear of being persecuted for our beliefs. *This is the suppose to be the "Christian" section, but it seems members get along better in the "Off Topic and Entertainment Section" than here.* I personally love the dialogs that go on here...I just don't understand why some get upset b/c others don't share their views...
> ...


 
I agree.  I hope we all can continue as well without the persecution.  

As far as members getting along better in the OT and EF, I think its due to the fact that satan doesn't like anyone to speak the truth in the CF, no matter who's stating what and what their position is.  You can always tell when his hands are in it because the believers fight amongst one another, where we should be unified together.

It happens here, and it happens over at the other areas as well.  Its just hyped over here because this is the place where others should be able to come and dwell in peaceful land.  Unfortunately, we are in a war and the war is for souls, so yes, I can see it happening more and more.

I appreciate you saying this though.  It gives me hope that there are people who want to see PEACE here. I for one would love to have it here all the time.

I notice on other Christian Forums that I go to at times, that they have it there as well and I just read there, don't particpate in anything.  Jesus did say..."If they persecute me, they will persecute you too."  

So, we must learn to reason with each other and when we do, we will see good results....and others will too!

Thanks again!


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## Mocha5 (Oct 3, 2007)

Actually...the issues were resolved (rather quickly might I add) in PM land amongst sistas in Christ who love one another regardless of our opinions about celebrations or scripture.  We can't lose with Jesus as our mediator!!


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 3, 2007)

Mocha5 said:


> Actually...*the issues were resolved (rather quickly might I add) in PM land* amongst sistas in Christ who love one another regardless of our opinions about celebrations or scripture. We can't lose with Jesus as our mediator!!


 


Guess not...


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## tffy2004 (Oct 4, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Well, alrighty now.
> 
> I just logged on a little while ago and what did I see first?  A PM from Tiff.  I read it, answered it and then I came into the thread and what did I see?  The same thing she wrote to me in a PM, she shared it with you all in the thread.  Wow, that speaks volumes to me!
> 
> ...



The only thing I will say about this post is notice the time I posted in the forum 3:18pm and I sent the post to you in a PM at what time? 3:22pm, The reason I did that was to then leave it up to you whether or not you wanted to settle the issue in the thread or in Private Message. You didn't have to name names in your other post to know who you were talking about.

So this is a done matter and will be taken care of through PM. I have been busy and I am just now logging in at 1am to read my PM messages. So, Be Blessed Y'all.


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## StrawberryQueen (Oct 4, 2007)

For those who celebrate Christmas and Easter, do you also celebrate Halloween?


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## alexstin (Oct 4, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:


> For those who celebrate Christmas and Easter, do you also celebrate Halloween?



No. I don't like the message of fear that surrounds Halloween. Yes, the kids can have fun with candy and goodies but I take issue with the horror movies, spooky decorations and the like. 

I celebrated as a kid and I had fun but I also remember the movies like Halloween playing that night and being scared to death and neighborhood homes I was too scared to go to because of the decorations. 

I like Harvest or Fall festivals. All of the fun, for my kids, without the scare tactics.


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## Shimmie (Oct 4, 2007)

A perfect ending and a new beginning for oneness...

Romans 14...

1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

2 One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

3 Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him.

4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

*5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind.*

6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;

8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
___________

No one is wrong whether they choose to celebrate Christmas and Easter or not.  No one is wrong.  The pure focus is Jesus Christ and His love for us.  For each us celebrate just by being one in Him and no other God.

As for Halloween, it's not an occasion of for Christians... (Nor for anyone for that matter .   It's a satanic ritual of death and evil in which those who participate are inviting the devil into their homes and into the lives and spirits of their children.  Who wants that mess?  

Not an opinion...

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=101081


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## StrawberryQueen (Oct 4, 2007)

alexstin said:


> No. I don't like the message of fear that surrounds Halloween. Yes, the kids can have fun with candy and goodies but I take issue with the horror movies, spooky decorations and the like.
> 
> I celebrated as a kid and I had fun but I also remember the movies like Halloween playing that night and being scared to death and neighborhood homes I was too scared to go to because of the decorations.
> 
> I like Harvest or Fall festivals. All of the fun, for my kids, without the scare tactics.


I understand this POV.  But Shimmie I don't understand where you're coming from.   How is Halloween satanic, or more evil that Christmas or Easter?


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## Shimmie (Oct 4, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:


> I understand this POV. But Shimmie I don't understand where you're coming from.  How is Halloween satanic, or more evil that Christmas or Easter?


*There's a major difference Angel.*  MAJOR.

Just for a moment, let's be focused and real here. Right now I have to take a strong stand upon this subject. It's just that serious. It's not a game. Okay? 

*There is absolutely no reverence of God in Halloween*, only satanic rituals, witchcraft and demonic behaviours. Are you aware what goes on on Halloween? There are literally human blood sacrifices taking place; cats are killed for such as well and there are many graves that are dug up and vandelled for the purposes of satanic rituals on this day. Do you know that there are plans right now, by satanists, witches, and the like, in effect right now for this day of horror. 

I'm not making this up. You'd be surprised at the absolute obcurity of this one day and the practices of those who honor it.

Now, is that something for a Christian to celebrate? I don't think so. I KNOW so and so should you and anyone else. God is not in this! It's insane, let alone full of horror and hell itsself. 

The focus in Halloween is death, and rituals which God forewarns and admonishes us not to partake of all through His word. 

Basically common sense shows anyone what Halloween exalts and it's obviously and definitely NOT God. 

Christians who celebrate Christmas and Easter, place a total and complete and pure reverence upon Jesus Christ and none other. The Easter bunnie, and the elves have no place in our celebration of these two occasions which to us are indeed holy and accepted by God as such. For whatever we do to honor and rever Him, He honors. He dwells within our praises to Him.

In answer to you question...The big difference is Jesus who is honored in Christmas and Easter.   Period!


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## alexstin (Oct 4, 2007)

Shimmie,

You used to practice witchcraft, right? Did you take part in any of the things you listed below on Halloween?



Shimmie said:


> *There's a major difference Angel.*  MAJOR.
> 
> Just for a moment, let's be focused and real here. Right now I have to take a strong stand upon this subject. It's just that serious. It's not a game. Okay?
> 
> ...


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## tffy2004 (Oct 4, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Guess not...



Yes it is, turn that frown up side down check your PM's


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## Shimmie (Oct 4, 2007)

alexstin said:


> Shimmie,
> 
> You used to practice witchcraft, right? Did you take part in any of the things you listed below on Halloween?


No, I never got that far and here's why.  No matter how much I read or was curious about regarding the darkness of witchcraft (which is total darkness), there was always a 'hand' in front of me and a pull in back of me that would never allow me to delve but so far.   A literal hand that always blocked my path at several points in that direction.

I learned later it was because of my grandparents who had dedicated me to the Lord when I was a baby.  And that it was the hand of God who was keeping me from going too far.   I'm His and no one esle's.  

I used to sleep with my grandmoms all the time when I was a little girl.  And we always knelt and prayed before going to bed.  I remember how my (Mom' mom) grandmom would always pray longer and her ongoing words were 'Bless you child, bless you."   She imparted a gift into me that God had given her for love and compassion and prayer.  She knew God and all she did was sing about Jesus.  Soft, quiet songs.  A soft voice that never left me. 

The gifts are many, but satan tried to use them for his glory and to steer me away from the Lord.  The type of witchcraft I was involved in was the spirit of 'control'.

Hurt and anger, unforgiveness was the catalyst of my quest to learn about witchcraft, for it gave me a power (so I thought) to have control over my biggest target of unforgiveness and the desire for revenge...who was my ex-husband.  It gave me a false sense of 'not needing anyone', for I had discovered 'powers' that made me feel above all hurt and in total control of everything and everyone.   

Well, God had other plans for my life and all that I thought was my control, was His control all along.  The 'gifts' were His and always will be His and each thing I do is under His control and direction, not mine.

His using what I've learned to minister to others the dangers and the falsehood of witchcraft, for it is not a place for anyone to be.  The experince is nothing to brag about for it dishonors God, yet by His loving grace and by the Holy Spirit, I can tell when it's operating in a person or if one is being influence by the spirit of witchcraft which operates in many forms. Very easy to spot. 

That's when Job 5 takes place...

*12 He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.* 

19 He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven *there shall no evil touch thee. *

20 In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword. 

*21 Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh. *

22 At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth. 

23 For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee. 

24 And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin. 

25 Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thine offspring as the grass of the earth. 

26 Thou shalt come to thy grave in a full age, like as a shock of corn cometh in in his season. 

27 Lo this, we have searched it, so it is; hear it, and know thou it for thy good. 
--------------------

witches frequently come to Church for that's where satan sends them to create spirits of confusion.  They bring spirits with them that 'scatter' and out of no where (it seems ), all hell breaks loose and no one knows why.   Arguments between those who were at peace; confusion in the pulpit (a Pastor literally forgets his message, or parts of it; or he acts out of character).  

This spirit acts upon the 'flesh' and it's important to know this, because the flesh is surface, it cannot penetrate to one's soul.  witches cannot possess one's soul.    Influence, but not possess it.  

This is where they are able to influence with the spirits of lust.  A person who'd never consider sexual mis-conduct, will have thoughts of such cross their mind and if thought upon long enough, they will act upon it.    Now of course people have free will and can choose, however, if these thoughts are not put in check the flesh will rule and the person influenced will succomb to the sin.

How does this happen?  I won't say.   Just keep prayerful and you will never in life have to worry about being influenced or yielded to such.  

Be blessed angel...there's no better life for anyone than the life of loving Jesus Christ and being honored to be called His.  For as His, we will never be lead astray.  We're covered in His Covenant Blood which cannot be penetrated nor crossed over by any devil of any form at anytime.

Praise the name of Jesus...Amen  :heart2:


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## alexstin (Oct 4, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> No, I never got that far and here's why.  No matter how much I read or was curious about regarding the darkness of witchcraft (which is total darkness), there was always a 'hand' in front of me and a pull in back of me that would never allow me to delve but so far.   A literal hand that always blocked my path at several points in that direction.
> 
> I learned later it was because of my grandparents who had dedicated me to the Lord when I was a baby.  And that it was the hand of God who was keeping me from going too far.   I'm His and no one esle's.
> 
> ...




Amen!


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 4, 2007)

Shimmie, you are an awesome Christian.  God uses you mightly.  

Bless you, always!


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## Shimmie (Oct 4, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Shimmie, you are an awesome Christian. God uses you mightly.
> 
> Bless you, always!


It's the Lord you see; anyting good in me is Jesus and none other.

Precious Wavy and Alexstin, both of you are ministers and Pastor's wives. You both have been exposed to much, so what I shared above is really no surprise to you. 

There is such a sweet difference in my life with Jesus that all else can never matter to me. I have a heart that God controls and no other. I can be in my 'flesh' and act like a fool and often  quite foolish. But I love God too much to get caught up with it. 

In my life with Jesus, I've been broke and still happy, for the joy of the Lord is my strength. Ive been cold and still warm...for He covers me with His feathers and under His wings do I trust. I've had days when I've gone to work without a dime in my purse, yet I never hungered nor suffered, nor was I stranded nor forsaken. 

I've seen loved ones sick and brought to healing because of Jesus and His power within me. I've seen my dad come to life several times when he could have died, all because I chose to believe in Jesus and no other, for there is no other like Him. 

To both of you as Pastors, remember this and don't you ever forget it. Nothing and no one has rule over you. Nothing and no one except Jesus. Remember that. For this is where the spirit of witchcraft tries to undercut in ministries...the wife of God's man. If that spirit can get to the wife, the husband has no cover. She's been distracted or pushed off track of prayer. 

*I'm speaking to every wife,* for all wives are ministers to their husbands and his support spiritually. Yes, he's the head, but you--his wife, are his neck, his support. So, relax in prayer...relax *in it*. For then you will always be there before the Lord. You'll never be caught off guard for in relaxed prayer you're always there.

Nothing and no one has rule over you. Ever! In Jesus's name, Amen.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 5, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> It's the Lord you see; anyting good in me is Jesus and none other.
> 
> Precious Wavy and Alexstin, both of you are ministers and Pastor's wives. You both have been exposed to much, so what I shared above is really no surprise to you.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for this, sis.  I will remember that, always.


----------



## Mocha5 (Oct 5, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> It's the Lord you see; anyting good in me is Jesus and none other.
> 
> Precious Wavy and Alexstin, both of you are ministers and Pastor's wives. You both have been exposed to much, so what I shared above is really no surprise to you.
> 
> ...


 

Wow!  That's poetic.  Thanks, Shimmie.  You're such a blessing!


----------



## KatKronicles (Oct 5, 2007)

No to both.

I do not myself participate in the ancient holiday not to be confused with holy day of Estar or Ishtar or Esotar or Easter. However you like to spell it is fine by me. That day is the day of Sexual gratification be it fertility verility beastiality homosexuality orgie and eons more.

Christmas is also a holiday which if you have 80% reading comprehension you would know it is impossible at the time and the signs given in the bible that Jesus was born or Cruxified or Carrying a cross on or near the month of December. Jesus was born in or around the month of September.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 5, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> No to both.
> 
> I do not myself participate in the ancient holiday not to be confused with holy day of Estar or Ishtar or Esotar or Easter. However you like to spell it is fine by me. That day is the day of Sexual gratification be it fertility verility beastiality homosexuality orgie and eons more.
> 
> Christmas is also a holiday which if you have 80% reading comprehension you would know it is impossible at the time and the signs given in the bible that Jesus was born or Cruxified or Carrying a cross on or near the month of December. Jesus was born in or around the month of September.


 
What?????erplexed

Ok, in my best Sha-nay-nay voice...."oh my goodness"!


----------



## KatKronicles (Oct 5, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> What?????erplexed
> 
> Ok, in my best Sha-nay-nay voice...."oh my goodness"!


The problem with your post is there is nothing there but a quote from a syndicated television show.

Discussion and Dissection is a beautiful thing.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 5, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> The problem with your post is there is nothing there but a quote from a syndicated television show.
> 
> Discussion and Dissection is a beautiful thing.


 
It's ok girl....its ok


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 5, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> No to both.
> 
> I do not myself participate in the ancient holiday not to be confused with holy day of Estar or Ishtar or Esotar or Easter. However you like to spell it is fine by me. *That day is the day of Sexual gratification be it fertility verility beastiality homosexuality orgie and eons more.*
> 
> Christmas is also a holiday which if you have 80% reading comprehension you would know it is impossible at the time and the signs given in the bible that Jesus was born or Cruxified or Carrying a cross on or near the month of December. Jesus was born in or around the month of September.


Too extreme....

As Christians we are acknowledging and giving honor to the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ and nothing other. What's bolded above has no inkling nor thought given in such behaviours. It may be what those of a perverted nature practice, but not those of God. 

When you study the the Bible, the death and resurrection of Jesus is the exact fulfillment of the Jewish Passover. The pure Lamb of sacrifice was slain; its Blood was the atonement for all sins, presented and accepted at the Altar, sprinkled upon the Mercy Seat of God. 

Jesus rose again, proving God's promise that we too rise with Him forgiven of all of our transgressions. 

And this we celebrate, *not* the paganism and perversions of darkness. 

Christmas is acknowledging that Jesus Christ indeed was born. We celebrate His birth and his life, the Gift which God has so freely given to us, with a love beyond any measure we could ever conceive or understand, or even be worthy of. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son..."

The Son of God, who left His throne of magesty and greatness, and allowed Himself to be dressed in 'Flesh' and dwell among us and endure the heartache and pains of life that He did not deserve. 

He allowed Himself to be spit upon. He allowed Himself to be ridicued, falsely accused, beaten beyond recognition, had His beard pulled out with His skin still attached, whipped with leather embedded with glass, which cut His entire flesh from His bones; the stripes upon His back were two score, minus one...39 stripes, the blood and flesh embedded marks, upon His back. 

Hammered into His hands and feet were nails as wide as three of His fingers and heavier than a half pound...hung naked upon a tree shaped as a cross, given bitter vinegar when he weakly uttered, "I thirst". They stabbed Him in his side with a sword and mocked Him as He hung. 

There He hung, knowing that at any time He had at His disposal, 10,000 angels to come to His rescue. Yet, he endured the pain for He saw more of us, yet to gain and the fulfillment of our redemption was still yet to be paid...in full.  (A true test of His loyalty and love for us). 

He died and literally decended into hell for us, so that we would not have to. He went through every path, pebble, rock and grit, of hell and its torture, just so we would not have to endure such torture for an eternity, where there would be no escape, once entered.

With His death, the chastisement of our peace, He took upon Himself. He paid the price for us to have everlasting joy...His peace, for He is our peace. He paid in full, the price for our healing, for by His stripes, we were healed. No sickness or disease has license to rule in our bodies. Jesus paid the price. 

And now, He sits upon His throne on the right hand side of God, still on our behalf, interceding for us, our advocate with God the Father, who has given us free access to Heaven, by speaking His Holy name...

His name is JESUS! The Son of the Living God! Our Saviour forever! Amen.

Now this gives me a reason to celebrate! Anything in this life that we treasure and honor, we celebrate. 

If we can celebrate having long hair growth, we can surely celebrate Jesus, His Birth, His Life, His Death and Resurrection. After all, it is He who has enabled our hair to grow. If we can cheer a legal battle won, a good health report, a new home, a new job, a new car, praise a good cook and a good recipe, a good movie, a good TV show, a good sermon, a wedding, an engagement, an anniversary, what not a day or two out of the year for Jesus. How else do we proclaim to the world just how important He is to us and what it means to be a Christian. 

Taking one day out of the year, no matter what day it is, is an honor and a priviledge to show to the world we do have a Savior whom we deem worth of celebrating. That's what life is, a celebration...a gift to be cherished. And to celebrate the one who gave us life is something God deserves. 

We're not being pagans nor participating in pagan practices. Pagans do not celebrate Jesus...We do, however. 

Two for the record....

I am not speaking against those who chose not to celebrate either holiday. I honestly respect ones choice and decision.  I know that you do not love God any less. You're still wonderful in His heart and mine. Here's the love I feel for you  You're special.

However, this is for those who *do* celebrate and they should not feel guilty for such.

We know Jesus wasn't born in the winter, and it doesn't take rocket science nor ridicule to be aware of this.  We also know that Jesus did not die on a Friday and neither did He rise on Sunday. 

Reading the Bible makes it plain. It was the first day of the week (after the Sabbath) when Mary went to the grave and saw Him. It was Saturday, at the end of the Sabbath when He truly arose, this fulfills prophesy. He was crucified at the onset of Passover (The day of Nissan, the onset of Passover, which was a Wednesday, in accordance to the Jewish calendar). 

From Wednesday evening (onset of Passover Sabbath) to Saturday evening, (end of the Sabbath) you get 72 hours...3 days/3 nights.  As Jesus said, "as Jonah was in the belly of the "Whale", 3 days/3 nights, so shall the son of man be in the ground."

The error that men made by saying Jesus died on a Friday, is the mis-interpretation of Sabbath. They took it to mean the weekly Friday Sabbath and not that of the Passover Sabbath.

Bottomline...we're celebrating Jesus and His total meaning of Holiness...not man's errors. We've telling God we love Him and the world has to respect it and give us our holidays to enjoy ths celebration of life and it does, for
"Jesus is a National Holiday." :heart2:


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 5, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> Too extreme....
> 
> As Christians we are acknowledging and giving honor to the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ and nothing other. What's bolded above has no inkling nor thought given in such behaviours. It may be what those of a perverted nature practice, but not those of God.
> 
> ...


 
I'm glad you explained it, because these painkillers are making me silly!!!

I wonder if it will be received well....well, at least I hope so.


----------



## Mocha5 (Oct 5, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> We've telling God we love Him and the world has to respect it and give us our holidays to enjoy ths celebration of life and it does, *Jesus is a National Holiday*. :heart2:


 
Loves it!   Perfect for a message on a t-shirt!


----------



## alexstin (Oct 5, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> It's the Lord you see; anyting good in me is Jesus and none other.
> 
> Precious Wavy and Alexstin, both of you are ministers and Pastor's wives. You both have been exposed to much, so what I shared above is really no surprise to you.
> 
> ...



Thank you, Shimmie.


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 5, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I'm glad you explained it, because these painkillers are making me silly!!!
> 
> I wonder if it will be received well....well, at least I hope so.


This is for those of us who do celebrate, to assure them that they are not in sin.  None of us are pagans, nor in a pagan practice.  

Yet, I respect those who don't and their reasons not to. It's all good, it really is... 

Paul says it so well which puts the differences of opinion on this topic to an end...

*Romans 14....*

2 One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

*3 Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him.
*
4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

*5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike.   Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind.*

6 *He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord,* and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

*7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;*

8 *for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.*
*___________________*

*If one doesn't celebrate, it's okay.     It one does celebrate, it's okay.  *

*Both choices are exceptable for we are ALL the Lords.   :heart2: 
* 
    :heart2:


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 5, 2007)

Mocha5 said:


> Loves it!  Perfect for a message on a t-shirt!


"Jesus is a National Holiday" :heart2:

Christmas ... the Mass (a Holy gathering) of Christ, hence the word "Christmas".

Celebrations bring people closer. Look at the Jews, they are still knit with one another in their own communities, and they always have something to celebrate. 

The Chinese celebrate Budda, the year of the dragon, year of the monkey, year of the 'whatever'....


Jesus said...

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 

19 To preach the acceptable *Year of the Lord.* 

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

_______________

Each year, we celebrate the acceptable "Year of the Lord"

 :heart2:


----------



## KatKronicles (Oct 5, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> Too extreme....
> 
> As Christians we are acknowledging and giving honor to the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ and nothing other. What's bolded above has no inkling nor thought given in such behaviours. It may be what those of a perverted nature practice, but not those of God.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your dissertation, however, what you've written sideesteps logic and the topic at hand. The usage of scripture has no bearing or validation on the pagan holidays many who think are christian celebrations.  And like a previous poster said, " its okay".

The "facts" you wrote however, still have nothing to do with the facts. Easter is in fact a pagan god holiday. Christmas is in fact a pagan god holiday.

Unfortunately I have studied the bible to the 33rd degree, and I unlike many who profess to be enlightened or rather studied of the bible forgets or totaly ignorant to the promise that Satan purposely has always had himself a holiday that coincides with holydays. And Easter and Christmas are one of them.

I emplore you to seek wisdom and do some research on the subject of both holidays. And to also see how his ( satans) holidays, always mimic the holydays of God and or Jesus.


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 5, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> I appreciate your dissertation, however, what you've written sideesteps logic and the topic at hand. The usage of scripture has no bearing or validation on the pagan holidays many who think are christian celebrations. And like a previous poster said, " its okay".
> 
> The "facts" you wrote however, still have nothing to do with the facts. Easter is in fact a pagan god holiday. Christmas is in fact a pagan god holiday.
> 
> ...


Kittenxx, you have every right to believe as you will for that is your God-given right and I respect that as well as I respect you as my sister in Christ. 

Although you mean well, you are missing the very vital point and truth here. When those of us here celebrate Christmas and Easter, we are celebrating Jesus Christ and no other God. 

The pagans did not ... WE DO. 

Each of us here on earth, Christians, pagans, Jews, and any culture you can name, share the same 24 hours, 7 days a week, 12 months, and 365 days (plus Leap Year). And what we do with these days makes a major distinction of who rules and reigns as our God. 

Each culture, each segment on these days we all share, either worship God or they don't. On my birthday, there is a Christian (me) and a sinner who shares it; the same with yours. Yet there is a vital difference. And the difference is Jesus! 

Therefore, with Jesus in it, Christmas and Easter are no longer pagan. pagan didn't pay for it, Jesus did, therefore it is ours to claim and to proclaim the love we have for Him.

Here's the thing, the pagans don't own the days, we do and we're just taking back what God has given us, which is everyday, His day no matter what anyone says or does. And we have full freedom and license to proclaim a special day of celebration. 

Why let the world have it and proclaim homage to their own false gods? No... we have it and it's ours and it's going to remain such, no matter who objects to it. 

Bottomline, if you don't want to celebrate, that's okay.  Really it is. But please don't accuse those of us who do, of being pagans for we are not and we never will be. We're celebrating someone we love, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Therefore, these are our days, we've taken authority over the world and give God all the glory. 

Christmas and Easter have been redefined; no longer pagan. These days belong to Jesus and those who love Him. 

"This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it. For the Lord is good and worthy to be praised." 

Peace and blessings....


----------



## divya (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes, I celebrate Christmas with the focus on Christ. Being aware of the pagan origins, certain things are included or excluded from the season for me.  

I would not say that I celebrate Easter.  I recognize and appreciate the sacrifice that Christ made for us and the resurrection. However, that is something I believe in doing all the time.


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## Shimmie (Oct 5, 2007)

divya said:


> Yes, I celebrate Christmas with the focus on Christ.  Being aware of the pagan origins, certain things are included or excluded from the season for me.
> 
> I would not say that I celebrate Easter. I recognize and appreciate the sacrifice that Christ made for us and the resurrection. However, that is something I believe in doing all the time.


   I respect all of this.


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## divya (Oct 6, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> No to both.
> 
> I do not myself participate in the ancient holiday not to be confused with holy day of Estar or Ishtar or Esotar or Easter. However you like to spell it is fine by me. That day is the day of Sexual gratification be it fertility verility beastiality homosexuality orgie and eons more.
> 
> Christmas is also a holiday which if you have 80% reading comprehension you would know it is impossible at the time and the signs given in the bible that Jesus was born or Cruxified or Carrying a cross on or near the month of December. Jesus was born in or around the month of September.



There are people who celebrate Christmas as a season - from October to January - and as a time to celebrate the fact that Christ was born on earth with a mission to save us.  NOT because we believe that He was actually born on December 25th and anytime near it. 

Random question: so what day does your 80% reading comprehension tell you is the day of rest?


----------



## tffy2004 (Oct 6, 2007)

> Random question: so what day does your 80% reading comprehension tell you is the day of rest?



I know this wasn't addressed to me but its something that I have thought about starting a thread on. Anyway, since I follow the seven day calender that I have on my wall, with Sunday being day one of the week, in my household we observe Saturday as the day of rest, we sit around and do crafts, paint, we may go for a walk, or play outside with the kids, but my husband doesn't work on Saturdays anymore. We just enjoy each other on that day and don't worry about work and the hustle and bustle of the week.


----------



## divya (Oct 6, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> I know this wasn't addressed to me but its something that I have thought about starting a thread on. Anyway, since I follow the seven day calender that I have on my wall, with Sunday being day one of the week, in my household we observe Saturday as the day of rest, we sit around and do crafts, paint, we may go for a walk, or play outside with the kids, but my husband doesn't work on Saturdays anymore. We just enjoy each other on that day and don't worry about work and the hustle and bustle of the week.



That's wonderful to hear. I also observe the 7th day Sabbath. Is that something you and your husband chose to do on your own, without any other influences?


----------



## dicapr (Oct 6, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> Now, it is a sin NOT to cover up...
> 
> "Do not uncover her nakedness...."


 
I am not avocating nakedness!  I think sin has done a number on the beautiful bodies God gave us and should be covered up!  I was just pointing out that most things that humans do out of tradition can be in some way, shape, or form be traced back to a sin or a sinful event.


----------



## KatKronicles (Oct 6, 2007)

divya said:


> There are people who celebrate Christmas as a season - from October to January - and as a time to celebrate the fact that Christ was born on earth with a mission to save us. NOT because we believe that He was actually born on December 25th and anytime near it.
> 
> Random question: so what day does your 80% reading comprehension tell you is the day of rest?


 
My reading comprehension is 99%. not 80. And I find malice in your heart by way of your keystroke and I will leave you at it. Surely and truly you meant this in a negative way. 

But depending on region, culture, and your own interpreted religious beliefs. Sabbath is Saturday if I go by the calender we use today in america.And also the calender used in aramaic which the bible is based on.


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 6, 2007)

dicapr said:


> I am not avocating nakedness! I think sin has done a number on the beautiful bodies God gave us and should be covered up! I was just pointing out that most things that humans do out of tradition can be in some way, shape, or form be traced back to a sin or a sinful event.


I agree and I understand what you meant earlier. Excellent point.  

I was just sharing how far we've come from 'Eden', where then (before sin), we (Adam and Eve) were covered with God's glory and now we're covered with remnents of the earth (man made textiles). 

For you...


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 6, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> My reading comprehension is 99%. not 80. And I find malice in your heart by way of your keystroke and I will leave you at it. Surely and truly you meant this in a negative way.
> 
> But depending on region, culture, and your own interpreted religious beliefs. Sabbath is Saturday if I go by the calender we use today in america.And also the calender used in aramaic which the bible is based on.


 
There's no malice in her heart   By way of her keystoke, she's just referring to the _80% reading comprehension_ that you presented in your original post.   Your 99% missed that. 

Hey, it's all good.  No one here is against you.  It's just that your original comments come off as insulting our intelligence.  If I'm wrong, I apologize.  We all have different views and that's expected, that's life and it always will be.  But none of us lack intelligence just because we share different views.  

For you...  We're all still sisters in Christ Jesus.  That's more important than anything else.   

Kittenxx, you have a beautiful heart and so do we.


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 6, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> I know this wasn't addressed to me but its something that I have thought about starting a thread on. Anyway, since I follow the seven day calender that I have on my wall, with Sunday being day one of the week,* in my household we observe Saturday as the day of rest, we sit around and do crafts, paint, we may go for a walk, or play outside with the kids, but my husband doesn't work on Saturdays anymore.* *We just enjoy each other on that day and don't worry about work and the hustle and bustle of the week*.


This is good Tffy. I find your post very encouraging. 

I'm making a concious effort to get all of my business, chores, and errands done during the week (Monday-Friday) so that Saturday can become a day of 'rest'.   

It's a challenge, because many events and errands, I'm committed to occur on Saturdays, but I'm still focused on making this a day of rest.


----------



## KatKronicles (Oct 6, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> There's no malice in her heart  By way of her keystoke, she's just referring to the _80% reading comprehension_ that you presented in your original post.  Your 99% missed that.
> 
> Hey, it's all good. No one here is against you. It's just that your original comments come off as insulting our intelligence. If I'm wrong, I apologize. We all have different views and that's expected, that's life and it always will be. But none of us lack intelligence just because we share different views.
> 
> ...


Im not concerned nor did I ever imply or elude to the premise of anyone being against me. Spare me the theatrics.

You are indeed wrong, perhaps you should go back and take some time and cogitation on my post that referenced if people had at least 80% reading comprehension alot of these issues when dealing with the bible wouldnt arise. I read hers yours and my post correctly. And responded accordingly.


----------



## alexstin (Oct 6, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> Im not concerned nor did I ever imply or elude to the premise of anyone being against me. Spare me the theatrics.
> 
> You are indeed wrong, perhaps you should go back and take some time and cogitation on my post that referenced if people had at least 80% reading comprehension alot of these issues when dealing with the bible wouldnt arise. I read hers yours and my post correctly. And responded accordingly.




 None of these topics are new. They've been rehashed a dozen times so there's really no need for you to speak to others the way you have as if they need schooling.  Many of us are quite knowledgeable about the scriptures.


----------



## KatKronicles (Oct 6, 2007)

alexstin said:


> None of these topics are new. They've been rehashed a dozen times so there's really no need for you to speak to others the way you have as if they need schooling. Many of us are quite knowledgeable about the scriptures.


 
Yes i may come off condescending. However It doesnt take away from the conversation. Nice of you to edit your post by the way.

Schooling ? I love being schooled, it means im still capable of learning. So thats not a bad thing in principle or practice. I never said that anyone lacked knowledge. I challenged a fellow sister to wisdom and seeking it.

But for the sake of the congregation, I digress.


----------



## alexstin (Oct 6, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> Yes i may come off condescending. However It doesnt take away from the conversation. Nice of you to edit your post by the way.
> 
> Schooling ? I love being schooled, it means im still capable of learning. So thats not a bad thing in principle or practice. I never said that anyone lacked knowledge. I challenged a fellow sister to wisdom and seeking it.
> 
> But for the sake of the congregation, I digress.



Well, I do think you were condescending but so as not to be inflammatory I edited. I definitely am not ashamed that I typed that you have a condescending attitude.

So you really think that someone wants to converse with someone that's being condescending?erplexed

The point is, we all have a lot of knowledge to share but you seem more interested in telling others why they are wrong  rather then having others understand why you do what you do. To each his own.


----------



## Mocha5 (Oct 6, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> *Yes i may come off condescending. However It doesnt take away from the conversation.* Nice of you to edit your post by the way.
> 
> Schooling ? I love being schooled, it means im still capable of learning. So thats not a bad thing in principle or practice. I never said that anyone lacked knowledge. I challenged a fellow sister to wisdom and seeking it.
> 
> But for the sake of the congregation, I digress.


 
Oh, you DO come off condescending.  No if's ands or buts about it.  And it DOES take away from the conversation because it's obvious that you are unable to speak to people in love or accept it based on your posts.  The manner in which you deliver your messages wouldn't be well received by anyone, regardless of her reading comprehension level.


----------



## divya (Oct 6, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> My reading comprehension is 99%. not 80. And I find malice in your heart by way of your keystroke and I will leave you at it. Surely and truly you meant this in a negative way.
> 
> But depending on region, culture, and your own interpreted religious beliefs. Sabbath is Saturday if I go by the calender we use today in america.And also the calender used in aramaic which the bible is based on.



As has already been mentioned, I simply used the words you directed at someone else.  I asked you what your "80% reading comprehension" told you, since that what you claimed was necessary in order to understand certain Biblical truths.

That you find malice in my heart and are sure that my post is meant in a negative, that is nothing short of a judgmental attitude. What else do you know about me? LOL. Actually, I thought nothing much of it. I only asked just what you direct to another poster, so maybe you should ask yourself where your comment came from.

It seems like you assumed what people should know from their Biblical studying. My response to that is that Lord convicts people at different times.  Just because He has impressed upon your heart that you should not observe Easter or Christmas, does not means everyone else should know. 

I follow the Seventh-day Sabbath as that is exactly what God's Word tells us to do.  But do I feel like everybody who has "80% reading comprehension" should know right at this point should have already been convicted at this point and should be doing the same? Absolutely not.  God reveals truths to us in time, when He knows we are ready.  Whenever the time comes, it is then up to us to believe and live by what we learn is right.


----------



## tffy2004 (Oct 6, 2007)

divya said:


> That's wonderful to hear. I also observe the 7th day Sabbath. Is that something you and your husband chose to do on your own, without any other influences?



Decided to go ahead and answer it here.

I will be honest with you, there was outside influence. There was a thread started not too long ago with a link to youtube. The video was of Paul Washer, speaking to youth and it made us re-examine whether or not we, at the ages of 22 and 24, were truly Christians. Here is the link, there are 6 parts that total about an hour long message, but is is soooooo worth watching. Stirring Message from Paul Washer

After we watched this message we re-dedicated our lives to God and the mission of leading people to Christ. We started reading the bible, but this time, no matter how long it takes we will read the entire Bible beginning to end, even if it takes til the Savior comes back.

We printed out the 10 Commandments framed them and hung them on the wall as a daily reminder that God is with us and we have a purpose. In framing the Commandments we went through each and found as much as we could in the Bible about each one. With us both being full time college students and him working outside the home, the Sabbath is truly a day of rest for us and time to really BE a family and talk and love on one another without rushing to do something else, or watching the clock the whole day trying to get things done.


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## Shimmie (Oct 6, 2007)

kittenxx said:


> Im not concerned nor did I ever imply or elude to the premise of anyone being against me. Spare me the theatrics.
> 
> You are indeed wrong, perhaps you should go back and take some time and cogitation on my post that referenced if people had at least 80% reading comprehension alot of these issues when dealing with the bible wouldnt arise. I read hers yours and my post correctly. And responded accordingly.


Oh, I understood you perfectly.  Yet as an adult and as a Christian, I choose to look beyond that. My reading comprehension has comprehensive skills which are fully utilized beyond black and white text. 

And there's one thing that our comprehension and cannot ignore. You are a 'hurting' individual. And you cannot hide behind your pretense of knowledge nor is there any escape from this truth. 

The hurt in your heart is exposing itsself more and more in how you communicate. In order to hide from your feelings, you use knowledge as a wall and a cover-up to what's going on inside of you. It's also your weapon of defense, but you are 'attacking' the wrong persons. We are not your enemy here... 

Your words reveal a shell, a hardness of heart and to fight back for who/whatever has hurt you or what you are hiding from you 'attack' others with what you feel makes you superiour to others. Every seed produces after its own kind, therefore 'Hurt renders hurt" and you are acting this out.

No matter how you reply, your words will deny what I've shared here. But your words will do something else, show more hardness of heart and defense. For like a battery leak, and a slowly evolving earthquake, the abundance of your heart will always 'spill' out what's in it. 

I'll tell you why. Because it doesn't belong there. It directly conflicts with the Holy Spirit and it is being pushed out into the open to be exposed, for someone who cares to pray for you. And Kittenxx, someone cares. They care deeply. Someone to whom 80 to 1,000,000% doesn't matter regarding intellectual comprehension. Someone...'Jesus" 

Jesus isn't concerned about our intelligence, more so He is concerned about our hearts, and hurts, and our precious souls which He died for. 

He doesn't care which day of the week, we celebrate or not celebrate and why we choose or not choose. He cares about our hearts and souls and embracing all that there is about us. He cares about who hurt you and how it has overcome you to the point of inner conflict, which spills over into how you relate to others. 

Again, no one here is against you. Your demeanor has a sting to it, yes. But allow love to pull the 'stinger' out and let you be healed. Save the 'stinging' remarks for satan who is our real enemy. 

You are loved, dear one. You are loved with an everlasting love. And whoever hurt you has also hurt themselves. God has taken full care of it, just for you.


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## StrawberryQueen (Oct 6, 2007)

Mocha5 said:


> Oh, you DO come off condescending. No if's ands or buts about it. And it DOES take away from the conversation because it's obvious that you are unable to speak to people in love or accept it based on your posts. The manner in which you deliver your messages wouldn't be well received by anyone, regardless of her reading comprehension level.


You know what?  Let's be honest here, most of the people in this forum come off as condescending.  Don't jump all over her-she's just responding to others in the manner they are responding to her.  People are making wild accusations, telling each other they're wrong-*what is going on*?    

This is so ridiculous that people are acting like this.


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## Shimmie (Oct 6, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:


> You know what? Let's be honest here, most of the people in this forum come off as condescending. Don't jump all over her-she's just responding to others in the manner they are responding to her. People are making wild accusations, telling each other they're wrong-
> 
> *what is going on?*
> 
> This is so ridiculous that people are acting like this.


You came in late...


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## divya (Oct 6, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> Decided to go ahead and answer it here.
> 
> I will be honest with you, there was outside influence. There was a thread started not too long ago with a link to youtube. The video was of Paul Washer, speaking to youth and it made us re-examine whether or not we, at the ages of 22 and 24, were truly Christians. Here is the link, there are 6 parts that total about an hour long message, but is is soooooo worth watching. Stirring Message from Paul Washer
> 
> ...



Wonderful!  What a testimony of true dedication to God. Thank you for sharing.


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## divya (Oct 6, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:


> You know what?  Let's be honest here, most of the people in this forum come off as condescending.  Don't jump all over her-she's just responding to others in the manner they are responding to her.  People are making wild accusations, telling each other they're wrong-*what is going on*?
> 
> This is so ridiculous that people are acting like this.



I feel like most of the people in this thread responded fine, just a few seemed to be a bit condescending.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 6, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:


> You know what?  Let's be honest here, most of the people in this forum come off as condescending.  Don't jump all over her-she's just responding to others in the manner they are responding to her.  People are making wild accusations, telling each other they're wrong-*what is going on*?
> 
> This is so ridiculous that people are acting like this.



For the sake of the saints.....forget it!


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## Shimmie (Oct 6, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> For the sake of the saints.....forget it!


 I agree....


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## StrawberryQueen (Oct 6, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> For the sake of the saints.....forget it!


Thank you for this-I'll keep it in mind and use it the next time you try to express yourself. 

Have a blessed day.


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## KatKronicles (Oct 7, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> Oh, I understood you perfectly.  Yet as an adult and as a Christian, I choose to look beyond that. My reading comprehension has comprehensive skills which are fully utilized beyond black and white text.
> 
> And there's one thing that our comprehension and cannot ignore. You are a 'hurting' individual. And you cannot hide behind your pretense of knowledge nor is there any escape from this truth.
> 
> ...


This made me laugh out loud litteraly. Thanks.


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## Shimmie (Oct 7, 2007)

StrawberryQueen and Kittenxx, you're our sisters and we love you. 
Disagreements and personalities can never change that.  

Put it all to rest...


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## melodee (Oct 7, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> Too extreme....
> 
> As Christians we are acknowledging and giving honor to the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ and nothing other. What's bolded above has no inkling nor thought given in such behaviours. It may be what those of a perverted nature practice, but not those of God.
> 
> ...


 

Whoohooo, my sentiments exactly...and so well written/said.  Love you, Shim.


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## tffy2004 (Oct 21, 2007)

I thought I could leave this alone but I just can't it's still tugging at my heart and I have been praying about it and I still get this sick feeling inside, when I think of all the wonderful and powerful people out there who are taking part in something God instructed us not to take part of.

Most of not all of what I am about to post is from *The Restored Church of God* where the Bible is the Bible all by itself.

Where does God tell us not to do these things, Jeremiah 10 2-5. “_*Thus says the Lord*, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good._”

These verses illustrate an idol made out of wood. More specifically, it speaks of Christmas tree-making, even as it is still done today. A reference to the _signs of heaven _in verse 2 is better translated today as the winter solstice. Most people are unaware of the connection between Christmas and the winter solstice. They observe it because of the customs in our society. We need to be aware of what some of the customs signify. In fact, we read in verse 2 above, “_learn not the way of the heathen_.” God commands us not to follow that way.

Although the scripture above undoubtedly reflects the ancient practices during Jeremiah’s time, we know that the book is also prophetic. Therefore, we ought to take it as an instruction for our day and age as well.

The use of such a tree amounts to idolatry. This is a transgression of God’s law, stated in Exodus 20:4-6. Although God looks on the heart, we are still not to follow the way of the heathen.

The most common justification that one will hear regarding Christmas is that people have replaced old pagan customs and intents by asserting that they are now “focusing on Christ.” I have heard many say that they are “honoring Christ” in their Christmas-keeping. The problem is that God _does not say this is acceptable to Him! Actually, He plainly commands against it!_ Keeping Christmas _dishonors_ Christ! He considers everything about it to be an abomination! We will soon see why.

 Christ said, “But in _vain_ they do _worship_ Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matt. 15:9). Christmas is not a command of God—it is a tradition of men. Christ continued, “Full well you _reject_ the commandment of God, that you may keep your own _tradition_” (Mark 7:9). Every year, throughout the world, on December 25th, hundreds of millions do just that!

 We will see that God plainly commands, “Follow not the way of the heathen.” But most people do not fear God, and He allows them to make their own decisions. Human beings are free moral agents—free to obey or disobey God! But woe to those who ignore the plain Word of God!


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## Shimmie (Oct 21, 2007)

Tffy, I know your heart means well. And indeed the 'world' does not celebrate Jesus at Christmas, but the name of this holiday is well able to stand upon its own. 'Christ' mas, the 'Mass of Christ'. 

The scripture and the article you shared above is not new and I can tell you with certainity that the writer(s) -- ministry use of the scripture is not the Bible's meaning. God is speaking about IDOLS. Idols were created from the wood of trees and graved into an image whom they called god; and then coated with silver and gold....to 'preserve the wooden - graven image' and to give it prominence, worthy of worship. 

This scripture is not speaking about a Christmas tree, nor the lights nor any other ornament placed upon it. Tffy, I've never 'bowed' and given homage to a Christmas tree, nor has any Christian. We're not stupid...we know the reason and whom we celebrate....Jesus and no one else.

I need to start a new thread, for what I have to share needs to be out in the open and not hidden in a previous thread. 

In the meantime, Tffy, your decision and your feelings are respected and not judged. There are many Christians who feel as you do. However, those of us who celebrate are not in sin. We are not worshipping a Christmas tree, neither are we of a pagan spirit, we are worshipping Jesus, who is worthy to be praised and worthy of being celebrated everyday and given at least one day of high celebration all over the world.

*Every Faith has a "Holy Day of Celebration"* for their gods who are false gods. The Budda's, Muslim's, Jews, and so on. 

There's Kwanza, Channakuh, Year of the Monkey, Cow, etc., and yet, *there's always an issue when Christians celebrate Jesus Christ.* 

He's been dismissed from the schools, the court houses, and our so-called government which is a mess. 

And check this out, the words, _"In God We Trust"_ has actually been removed from dollar coins. Little by little, the world is moving to silence the existance of God.

*Now why is that?* 

It's no small wonder *because* satan wants to shut us up about Jesus and who He is, what He did, and that He is indeed our Lord worthy of all praise and celebration.

What better way for satan to do such, than to use a Christian, or a ministry to justify such 'Hush" and mis-use scripture to back it up. 

Hell does not want us to make a big deal about Jesus.  Hell is in a fury that God is still on the throne and still the one who dismantled satan and his beauty as an angel.  God is praised and satan is not.  Hell is once again humilitated each time we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ before all the world...God's promise for all mankind.

God says that He is holy and worthy to be praised. A high day of praise is the very least we can do to show the world that we indeed do have a God who IS God and whom is ALL God and none other. Pagans and heathens do not do such and never will. 

Tffy, it's okay that we disagree on this. It doesn't stop the care in my heart for you. You're one of the most precious ones that I can call both friend and sister here on this forum and I always will.  

Peace and hugs to you precious one....


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## tffy2004 (Oct 21, 2007)

*To Shimmie and no one else:*

The word christmas to me means Christianized paganism and has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Whats in a name if its not Jesus Christ or God. NOTHING

The article not being new has nothing to do with anything, if that were a valid point then everyone against Christianity can say that the Bible is old. And Christmas Trees do fall under the category of Idols. Bowing and giving homage to a christmas tree isn't a requirement of something being classified as an idol. You may know the reason and who you celebrate but its still contrary to God Word.

*There's Kwanza, Channakuh, Year of the Monkey, Cow, etc., and yet, there's always an issue when Christians celebrate Jesus Christ.*
I don't practice the religions that observe those holidays so I am not concerned with them. I'm more concerned with fellow Christians, cause if we can't get it right then how are we to show people to Christ and who he is, if we can't follow the instructions given in the bible.

There is little that the true Believers of Christ can do about God being removed from the above establishments. Although most of America claims to be Christian it's been sadly disproven in the way America works.

I don't think the scriptures were misused at all in the article. Christians can make a big deal about Jesus without joining in pegan tradition, which is what christmas is, pegan tradition.

Yes its ok to disagree but when it comes to God Word we must agree, and live accordingly. Because this isn't about Tiffany or Shimmie or Kittenxxx, its about God and what his word says. When we stand before God he will not question our intent when he already said in his word don't follow or do as the heathens.


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## Shimmie (Oct 21, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> *To Shimmie and no one else:*
> 
> The word christmas to me means Christianized paganism and has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Whats in a name if its not Jesus Christ or God. NOTHING
> 
> ...


Tffy, I'm speaking this in softness and love, that this is your personal conviction and it is totally respected.  

Believe me, it is respected and so are you.    

Yet again, those of us who celebrate Christmas are not in sin.  

Again, we are giving full honor of this day to the Lord Jesus Christ.   

And it is satan who wants to stop it; shut us up.  he wants to still the message that Jesus Christ was indeed come as promised; indeed born of a Virgin, indeed walked this earth in human form, indeed lived and died and rose again and is yet still to return for His church.

And these are the days, both Christmas and Easter that this message is proclaimed and 'Holiday-ed' - 'Holy Day' - for all the world to be put in rememberance of.  It's televised, on the radio, the world-wide-web and written about all over the world and every one has to hear it..everyone.  There's no escaping it, for these days are the only days of any holiday celebrated world-wide and it honors just one God...Jesus Christ. 

It has absolutely nothing to do with pagans for our message is in obedience to God's word, "Go into all the world and proclaim the message of Jesus Christ our Lord." 

We celebrate and proclaim, who we love and / or treasure.  

If we can celebrate our hair, than surely we can celebrate the one who gave it to us.  

For example, it's stated in your avatar that _your hair is your treasure._   I'm not judging, not at all,  yet it states something you treasure...your hair.  This is also a pagan practice..._vanity._  The word tells us plainly that it not in the braiding or adorning of the hair, but in the spirit of a woman that lies within her treasure.  

I'm making a very important point here.  We can't say that we are holy and blameless if we yield to one aspect of what we believe and not yield to the other aspects in whole.   

On one hand you want to be blameless for not celebrating Christmas, yet you treasure your hair, yet an idol.  And trust me, our hair *is* our idol here on this forum, be it short or long...it's an idol.   Oh yes it is.  

The time, money, care, and despair, products, questions and more queries, we spend regarding our hair speaks for itsself.  Why?  Because we're not happy with the course of hair that we were born with.  Our idol.  Were it not, we'd leave it alone; we would not be here at LHCF or a BSS, or Salon, or in the mirror trying to fix it.  And nothing about it, celebrates Jesus nor even mentions His name.  

Nothing in the Bible tells us which hair product to try, let alone join a forum to be hair informed. 

Everyone of us on this forum has an idol of one form or another and we always will.  Does it excuse us, or give us license for such?  No... 

Celebrating our hair in comparison to celebrating Christmas and our love for Jesus Christ, and standing blameless, which is the true idol?  

If you want to stand before God blameless, go all the way.  But don't say it's because you don't celebrate Christmas.  Because that's not going cut it when you stand before God.  

He's going to pull up your record and and ask you about your other idols.  Then what will you have?   His mercy and nothing else.   For it's not of works of which we can boast...it's only by the Blood and mercy of Jesus Christ that we are saved and rendered blameless...and only that.

If we can celebrate the birth of our own children (who are yet born in sin) than surely we can celebrate the One who was born not in sin.

If we can take a vacation, stay home on ANY holiday, than surely we can celebrate Jesus for all the world to see.  

Rather than stay home that day and do nothing, I'd rather do something far more important.  Thank God for His gift of life and share His message of Love with the world.   A far greater treasure than hair.

It's okay for those who do not celebrate.  It really is.  

But it's not okay to condemn those who do and call us pagans.   Whom and how we celebrate is not a pagan practice...from the carols we sing, songs that honor Jesus, songs of worship for God's gift of Life.

pagans have their own god...satan.    

Our God is Jesus Christ who trumps the pagan way and always will...

Again I respect your choice.


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## MrsHouston (Oct 23, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> *To Shimmie and no one else:*
> 
> The word christmas to me means Christianized paganism and has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Whats in a name if its not Jesus Christ or God. NOTHING
> 
> ...



We MUST have a love for the TRUTH, until that happens man will continue to follow what SEEMS right to him.

_2 Thess. 2:10
10* and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved._

_John 4:23
23* "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24* "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."_

_2 Tim. 2:5
5* Also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.

John 8:31-32
31* So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; _

When seeking the TRUTH we must forget our own motives and PERSONAL desires.

_Luke 8:15
15* "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

Matt. 13:23
23* "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

Mk. 4:20
20* "And those are the ones on whom seed was sown on the good soil; and they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold." _


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## MrsHouston (Oct 23, 2007)

*The Bible doesn't teach we are to celebrate either Christmas or Easter.*

Christmas is never mentioned in Biblical text, but is a fabricated story derived from the birth of Christ based on some truth, some imagination, a dash of license of facts and what is true is often exaggerated. It is a priestly contrivance and fixed at December 25th since it is not mentioned in scripture and therefore is not tied to any dated Biblical historical event in time.

It is true Christ was born, but his birth date has been attributed to practically every month of the year and most likely is akin to the early fall based on the events of the story.

There were no three wise men, Christ was not born in a manger, and he was close to two years old and living in a house by the time the Magi (Wise men) arrived.

"Easter" is a mistranslation by the King James Version translators. All other reputable versions employ the proper title of "Passover" in Acts 12:4.

_The title "Easter" is a variation of several pagan celebrations in honor of Goddesses of fertility, which is why it probably occurs in the spring and is associated with the new life in the animal (bunnies and eggs) and plant world.
_
Passover and Easter often do occur at the same time of each other, but may be as much as a month a part.

Their observance is entirely different.

Passover was for the Jews to celebrate the "passing over" of the death angel just before the Exodus to persuade Pharaoh to let the Jewish people leave Egypt after 400 years of slavery.

Easter, as it is called, is supposed to be celebrated on the first day of the week, following His death 3 days before.

It is observed with variations of date due to different calendars on the the first Sunday after the full moon on, or next after March 21, or one week later if the full moon falls on a Sunday. (Webster)

However, Easter was not even heard of until the 2nd century making it foreign to the scripture’s writers of the first century.

So the question is: Do we as Christians celebrate Christmas *religiously*? Do we as Christians celebrate Easter *religiously*? * The short answer is "no" to both questions.*

Some New Testament blood covenant Christians celebrate the holiday season with a tree and lights and presents --- mostly for the kids --- because they have hard time differentiating "why not to". Some feel awkward if they don't mimic their neighbors.

*But since these festivities are not in the Bible, most blood covenant Christians do not celebrate religious holidays where none exist.
*

Paul commented on people who observe such days.

In one scripture he said:

"You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain. Gal 4:10-11

*But then his kindly heart told us this in Romans 14:
*
1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
2 One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
3 Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him.
4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind.
*6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.*
7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.

The death burial and resurrection of Christ is to be celebrated by covenant Christians every first day of the week by partaking of the Lord's Supper. When we do that, the Lord's Supper becomes a covenant renewal ceremony. Each time, we renew our original blood covenant agreement we made with Him in baptism.

Every covenant back to Adam and Eve was ratified by blood. Our covenant with Christ’s blood was ratified when we died and were resurrected with Him in baptism. At that instant, we had all sin removed and it placed us in a saved condition.

*I personally don't celebrate Religious Holidays, but I believe Paul wants us to be gentle and kind to those who do choose to observe these days, as their hearts are on the Lord in doing so.*


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## Shimmie (Oct 23, 2007)

As Christians, no matter who celebrates Christmas or not, doesn't make us better than the other. 

It's just a decision one has made in their walk with Jesus Christ to do or not to do. 

No one better than the other...no one weaker than the other. 

No one less loved, no one less spiritual or more. 

No one more knowledgeable of Truth; or less knowledgeable.

Neither is it a pass to Heaven for those who don't or those who do...

Nor does it make one more righteous than the other. 

Nor does it make one more kinder than the other.

Nor less sinful...

For there are many acts in the Christian walk that those oppose and refrain from doing such, yet still are guilty of another. 

As there are many acts in such 'our' walk that we do in honor, yet dishonor still in another...

It's no longer a matter of Christmas or Easter, neither scripture which speaks of traditions. 

Rather it's a matter of the heart and what "we" do apart from what "we" don't do, traditions or otherwise. 

It's not about Christmas or Easter celebrations, regarding those who don't versus those who do.... it's about one's total heart in ALL they do or do not do. 

:blowkiss:


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## klb120475 (Oct 23, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> As Christians, no matter who celebrates Christmas or not, doesn't make us better than the other.
> 
> It's just a decision one has made in their walk with Jesus Christ to do or not to do.
> 
> ...


 

That was absolutely beautiful!!!


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 23, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> As Christians, no matter who celebrates Christmas or not, doesn't make us better than the other.
> 
> It's just a decision one has made in their walk with Jesus Christ to do or not to do.
> 
> ...


 
Absolutely, wonderful......!

:blowkiss:Right back at cha!


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## Shimmie (Oct 23, 2007)

Precious klb and Precious Wavy... maybe you two can relate.

Each time I figure I have it 'down' with being righteous, I find out that I'm not.   For instance...

I don't 'associate' my life with the world (or so I thought).

Such as...

I don't fornicate; celibate for 25 years and I love it. (but I love romance movies and "Grey's Anatomy")

I don't go to clubs nor hang out in bars (but I love music and Dancing)

I don't smoke, drink alcohol (but I've attended functions that serve it such as weddings and office parties where there is an open bar).

I don't dress in hoochie clothes - I'm extremely modest (but I have a closet full of beautiful gowns, Dance costumes, and I love lingerie and beautiful underwear)

I love Gods' word and I can pull up a scripture with full application and not blink or think twice to find it (but I still need to read my Bible more and be on this forum less; but I'm too nosey to stay away).  

I do not associate myself with the occult, neither do I allow movies/shows of such, no matter how 'seemingly' innocent; I am adamant regarding Halloween and my family is strict with our children not to particpate.  

However, I love Michael's Jackson's 'Thriller Dance Scene'... it rocks!

There are those who do not celebrate Christmas or Easter and imply that those who do are in pagan practice, yet they can be located on the ENT forum.... 

Ummmm, -- I'm just saying   

Paul said this, "Our righteousness is as filthy rags.."

And he's speaking the total truth, because for every righteous thing we say we do and wear as a badge of honor, there's yet an unrighteous thing in the other corner of our 'righteousness'.  We have no righteousness of our own.

I'm making this a point because I just feel that there is an implication in this thread, that ..... that.... that... well *'that".* 

Like I said, no one here is better than the other just because one does and another doesn't.  No one. 

And Paul said it here... (Romans 14)

2 One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

3 Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him.

4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. *Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind.*

*None of us are better than the other...*

*_____________*


*Precious Wavy, I'm tired of this....  *

*klb, I need some ice....


*


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## HWAY (Oct 24, 2007)

I was an active member of a controlling religious group for many years.

Shimmie,

I felt what you said about no one has the right to judge others.

It took me a long time to realize my only master is Jesus and by trying to please people, I harmed myself.  Since I've only recently left this religion, I'm in the process of unlearning many concepts.  I haven't celebtated holidays in years but I know it's dangerous to judge others who do celbrate.  Does celebrating or not not celebrating holidays make one more spritual than her neighbor?  I still don't know.  I allow only the bible as my guide and pray for the Holy Spirit to guide me in all I do.  This forum has helped me and others in growing spiritually.  Please continue our conversations in love and respect for others.


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## Shimmie (Oct 24, 2007)

HWAY said:


> I was an active member of a controlling religious group for many years.
> 
> Shimmie,
> 
> ...


  HWAY, your post is beautiful and I also can identify with much of your experience.

When I was first saved, there wasn't anything that I wanted to do unpleasing to God and I still feel this way with all of my heart.  

But Sister HWAY, I was so rigid that I was scaring people away from Christ Jesus.   I'd like to share an experience that I will never forget. And it's a very sad one. 

I met a woman at a local mall; we were both 'babysitting' our grandbabies and while sitting and chatting we became good friends.  We shared much in common and this woman was as precious as can be. 

I invited her to our annual Woman's Luncheon at our summer campmeeting.  She met me there and she was so excited about attending.  For you see, I had gotten her all hyped up about Jesus and the Church that I attended.   

We sat at our table enjoying tea and conversation and she began to share 'innocently' some of her activities for entertainment.   And in my rigid mindset, I responded to each of her comments with a scripture and the reasons why I did not participant.  (Geesh!  Big mistake!)

Mind you, none of what she was doing was 'wrong', it just wasn't (in my mindset) of God.   How wrong I was.   How very wrong I was.  For after a little while, this precious woman looked at her watch and said, 
_"Oh, I forgot about an appointment that I have today, and I have to leave.  Thank you so much for inviting me.  I'm so sorry that I have to leave now." _

Sister HWAY, I never felt so convicted in all my life.   I felt 'bad' and I mean 'bad'.  I was so grieved for I knew that I had gone overboard...way overboard with my self-righteousness.   Ummmm, my choice of activities versus hers and anothers.  The thing is, I had no activities in my life.     

This precious woman was a 'victim' of my rigid personality and it was not Jesus.   Sadder, is that this woman missed a very important message from that woman's conference that my Pastor's wife ministered to the women for their marriages.   And in our prior conversations, this woman shared she was married and loved her husband.  They just needed ministry and prayer.  And my Pastor's message was just the one she needed.

I not only lost a dear friend, but I lost a soul.  And I will always regret this for as long as I live. 

Ever since then, I had to realize that my rigid mindset was not Bible.  It simply wasn't.  It was too far overboard and I realized why people were not open to what I had to share about Jesus.  

*Mind you, we are to adhere to God's word,* to be yielded and obedient.  That's a given and it will always be so.   

But somethings we have taken to extremes.  We have called people sinners when they were not.   We have called people disobedient to God's word, when in actuality, they were more obedient to the Lord than we were.   Hey, I know I'm speaking the truth here.  Many of us are very much like the 'Scribes, the Pharisees, and the Sadducees (sp?) that Jesus had to offend rebuke for their rigidness. They still had other sins, yet 'lorded' themselves over those who did not yield to the law as they felt others should.   They rebuked Jesus for healing a man on the Sabbath, yet Jesus had to rebuke them for being 'blind and rigid' to the fact that Jesus was still doing the work of God. 

This is not about a Christmas tree, or an Easter celebration and ones reasons or decisions to celebrate or not to celebrate.  It's about giving God the full Glory in all that we say and do. 

I had to realize that each day I could not afford to lose another person, because I was so 'perfect.'   I'm not saying that we are to compromise our righteousness...far be it from that.  We are strive for it and to be in right standing with God each moment we live.  

And I can also attest that for each 'perfect' thing we aspire to, there will always be an imperfect area as well.   Therefore, we cannot 'Lord' over each other our 'righteous' choices over anothers and call them less Godly.  Neither can we be condesending in our attitudes towards one another with comments which suggest one is weaker than the other or better. That's in itsself cancels out the good works that one boasts of him/herself.  

HWAY, *there is* indeed an importance for being rigid in our Faith, for we can't just do any and everything we want.  We are to rebuke, take authority over and control our flesh.  Our rigid stance is powerful against satan and especially when we're in intercessory prayer, fasting and just plain living for Christ....blocking out distractions, etc. 

But when it comes to minor things such as Christimas, Easter, even Paul says not to waste time arguing over such for this is not the issue that really matters...what truly matters is winning souls to Jesus Christ and allowing the Holy Spirit to rule, not man.

There will always be something that we do or don't do for the sake of righteousness.   Yet, we cannot call ourselves higher than another spiritually, that's pride of one's self. 

I don't wear make-up on a daily basis, yet does that make me more spiritual and Christ-like over one who does?   No...

I don't go to movies, does that make me more or better?  No 

In love, I can only say that so what if one chooses not to do a certain thing, yet in love it doesn't make one better and it never will. 

HWAY, I thank God for you.  I thank you for reminding me to keep my perspectives in love.  Because Shimmie can get rigid...but there's a time and a place for it.  

HWAY, I pray God's loving peace over you, for you do have a heart for God and His holiness.  I believe that the Holy Spirit has lead you out as God did Abraham to establish His Covenant with you, in liberty and in righteousness.   You will know the boundaries God has given you. 

Love and blessings to you and to everyone... :blowkiss:


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 24, 2007)

HWAY said:


> I was an active member of a controlling religious group for many years.
> 
> Shimmie,
> 
> ...


 
I know you directed this post to Shimmie, but I just have to say something about the bolded: * THANK YOU FOR THIS*!

Blessings!


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 24, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> Precious klb and Precious Wavy... maybe you two can relate.
> 
> Each time I figure I have it 'down' with being righteous, I find out that I'm not. For instance...
> 
> ...


 
I can relate, Shimmie.  I just want to say that I am no better than anyone here on this forum.  I have my share of things in my life that God is working out in me.  

I was reading what HWY said about keeping the converstions in love.  I believe what she said was so on time.  There are so many people who read these threads/posts everyday, as you know, and I want to always be an example of Jesus Christ here on this forum, as I try to do in my everyday life outside of this forum.  Now, that doesn't always mean we must allow foolishness to abound here either.  We must, as Jesus did, not allow satan to have his way in here or in our everyday life.  satan is under our feet.

Luv you!


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## Shimmie (Oct 24, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I can relate, Shimmie. I just want to say that I am no better than anyone here on this forum. I have my share of things in my life that God is working out in me.
> 
> I was reading what HWY said about keeping the converstions in love. I believe what she said was so on time. There are so many people who read these threads/posts everyday, as you know, and I want to always be an example of Jesus Christ here on this forum, as I try to do in my everyday life outside of this forum. Now, that doesn't always mean we must allow foolishness to abound here either. We must, as Jesus did, not allow satan to have his way in here or in our everyday life. satan is under our feet.
> 
> Luv you!


Amen, Precious Wavy...

I have to stand firm, but to do so in love. It makes a whole lot a difference.  A lot.  I'm not out to hurt anyone.  I'm sorry for whomever I have hurt.


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## cheetarah1980 (Oct 24, 2007)

Shimmie said:


> HWAY, your post is beautiful and I also can identify with much of your experience.
> 
> When I was first saved, there wasn't anything that I wanted to do unpleasing to God and I still feel this way with all of my heart.
> 
> ...


I was going to respond to this thread, but after reading this I'm not going to.  Sometimes we get so bogged down in being right that the love is lost.  It's hard for me not to participate in spirited theological debate, but at the end of the day it usually does no one any good, not because both sides don't make valid points.  But moreso because both sides are so busy making points that they rarely pay any attention to the other side.  It's difficult not to be dogmatic in our beliefs.  I'm learning that the real meaning of submission is giving up the right to be right.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 24, 2007)

cheetarah1980 said:


> I was going to respond to this thread, but after reading this I'm not going to. Sometimes we get so bogged down in being right that the love is lost. It's hard for me not to participate in spirited theological debate, but at the end of the day it usually does no one any good, not because both sides don't make valid points. But moreso because both sides are so busy making points that they rarely pay any attention to the other side. It's difficult not to be dogmatic in our beliefs. I'm learning that the real meaning of submission is giving up the right to be right.


 
I think that at this point...this thread is a done deal!

We all are going to believe what we feel is right...and that's ok, as long as we are not putting the others down about what they believe.  That's when it becomes heavy and weighed down.

Blessings to you and to all who posted in this thread!

May the Lord bless us with His love and with His wisdom!


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## Shimmie (Oct 24, 2007)

cheetarah1980 said:


> I was going to respond to this thread, but after reading this I'm not going to. Sometimes we get so bogged down in being right that the love is lost. It's hard for me not to participate in spirited theological debate, but at the end of the day it usually does no one any good, not because both sides don't make valid points. But moreso because both sides are so busy making points that they rarely pay any attention to the other side. *It's difficult not to be dogmatic in our beliefs.* I'm learning that the real meaning of submission is giving up the right to be right.


I'm guilty as charged.  

You said the right word, *dogmatic*. As a matter of fact call me, Shimmie,  'pit-bull' because there are too often times when my grip won't slip. 

This is so true what you said here and I too need to take this to heart..

"....the real meaning of submission is giving up the right to be right"...

Well said, Cheetarah...very well said.  

God bless you...

Before closing, I sincerely apologize for anyone that I've hurt and have not expressed love to.  I mean this with all my heart.  I'm very sorry.


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## Mocha5 (Mar 3, 2008)

The "infamous" Easter/Christmas thread.


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## Shimmie (Mar 3, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> The "infamous" Easter/Christmas thread.


I know.........  

How did it get 'bumped' up.  I saw it earlier this morning, but it only had my 'last' (key word -- 'Last')   post in it from way back.  But it didn't show how / who it got bumped up.  Let alone 'Resurrected'.....  

This is a Ping pong, boomerrang, bouncy ball :bounce: thread.  

Hugs Sweet Mocha...


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## discobiscuits (Mar 3, 2008)

sexyaqr said:


> Yes, I have done extensive research on both celebrations and their origins are far from 'Christian'. It is rooted in pagan customs. It was just dressed up to make it seem 'Christian'. So in answer, I do not celebrate either


 same


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 4, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> I know.........
> 
> How did it get 'bumped' up. I saw it earlier this morning, but it only had my 'last' (key word -- 'Last')  post in it from way back. But it didn't show how / who it got bumped up. Let alone 'Resurrected'.....
> 
> ...


 
Unbelievable, right Shimmie?


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## Shimmie (Mar 4, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Unbelievable, right Shimmie?


I know, Precious Wavy....

Let God have His way....  

Hey.....Easter is just a few weeks away.   Okay...  But still, who 'bumped' the thread?


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 4, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> I know, Precious Wavy....
> 
> Let God have His way....
> 
> Hey.....Easter is just a few weeks away. Okay... But still, who 'bumped' the thread?


 
I have no idea who bumped it...but, I'm sure we will find out soon


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## Shimmie (Mar 27, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I have no idea who bumped it...but, I'm sure we will find out soon


:scratchch: Hmmmmmm..... it bumped it's self again.  This thread must be made of rubber...It keeps bouncing back all on it's own.


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