# Pastor Carl Lentz will not preach on...



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 20, 2013)

*Pastor Carl Lentz Will Not Preach on Sexuality From Pulpit; Refuses to 'Ostracize People'*

*Hillsong NYC Lead Pastor on Homosexuality: Not His Job to Be People's 'Judge and Jury'*

By Nicola Menzie , Christian Post Reporter

December 20, 2013|12:18 pm


Hillsong NYC Pastor Carl Lentz has made it clear that he will not take a public stance on social issues like homosexuality because, as he said during media appearances this week, that is not the example Jesus Christ models in the Bible.

When asked during an interview with Katie Couric on her self-titled daytime show if he felt that he had a moral imperative to speak publicly about "some of these more controversial issues," Lentz said, "No, because we try to be like Jesus."

He explained, "Very rarely did Jesus ever talk about morality or social issues. He was about the deeper things of the heart. Often people want to talk about behavior modification, and our church isn't about that. … We're about soul transformation. You start talking about some of the symptomatic stuff, that's not what we're about. We're about talking to people about their heart and the condition of their soul, and some of that stuff out-works itself. But we're not trying to change anybody because we can't."

Lentz's pre-recorded appearance on "Katie" aired Thursday, the same day the Hillsong NYC pastor visited HuffPost Live and was asked similar questions about the same issue.

Host Ahmed Shihab-Eldin asked Lentz, 35, if same-sex couples were welcomed to attend the popular megachurch, which prompted the Pentecostal pastor to speak out against critics who insist that he needs to make a public stance on homosexuality and other social issues.

"Some media wants us to use our pulpit to have a soapbox for social issues," said Lentz. "I don't believe that's our job." 
http://www.christianpost.com/news/p...m-pulpit-refuses-to-ostracize-people-111211/# 

Pointing to Jesus as his example for ministry, Lentz added, "You go look at what Jesus did, he was always talking about the heart of an individual and the soul of a person, not these symptomatic societal problems. People hate that, because a lot of churches are about what they're against. We're about what we're for.

"When it comes to people's sexuality, I don't want to use a public forum to talk about private things. Because how in the world could you have a dialogue? How in the world can I hear your story? How in the world can someone have a question?"

If he stood in the pulpit at Irving Plaza, the Manhattan concert venue that serves as a sanctuary on Sundays for Hillsong's six worship services, and "just start(ed) railing at something or (made) a statement in a newspaper about something, I believe it's insensitive to the journey that people are walking on, and our church is going to protect people."
He added, "No matter where you're from, no matter what you carry, no matter what orientation you feel is your lane of life to run in, I want to have a conversation about it. We have a stance on love, and we have a conversation on everything else."

Asked if he was "in a position to support homosexual couples," the married father said, it was not his job to be a judge and jury for others.
"If I sat down with a homosexual couple and they ask me what I thought about their relationship, I would tell them, and it would be at their table and it would be our business. But their situation is different than the next situation," Lentz explained.

"Often people get these two words mixed up: acceptance and approval. If someone comes to my church, I don't have to approve of every single thing in their life, because that's not my job. I'm not God. My job is to accept you as I have been accepted. With everything in my life, God accepted me. So acceptance and approval, we draw a really cool line in there…"

Lentz, who leads with Hillsong United frontman Joel Houston, son of church founder Pastor Brian C. Houston, said there were plenty of people who have visited the church and did not find it to their liking.
"There are a lot of people who will come into our church, leave and go, 'No thanks. I don't want to change. I don't want to believe that.' And I say, 'Good for you, that's your job. You have to answer to God for your life, not me.' So why is this on me?" said Lentz.

The Christian minister said that he had gay friends and people whom he loves who are "right in the thick of that debate," which he will not be participating in publicly, at least not from the Hillsong NYC pulpit.
"I refuse to ostracize people any longer, I hate it. I think that there's been so much hate, and so much bigotry and so much insensitivity, I'm done with that," said Lentz.

Before The Huffington Post Live interview came to a close, the preacher made sure to add the two things he believes Jesus said to do.
"He said love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind." explained Lentz. "He said, number two, love your neighbor — with the inference being, if you love your neighbor, there's so much room to talk about stuff. But people want to yell with no love."

Hillsong NYC, founded in late 2010, welcomes more than 5,000 worshippers every Sunday and is the first U.S. plant of the main Hillsong Church in Sydney, Australia.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/p...om-pulpit-refuses-to-ostracize-people-111211/


----------



## sweetvi (Dec 20, 2013)

SMH........


----------



## Blackpearl1993 (Dec 20, 2013)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> *Pastor Carl Lentz Will Not Preach on Sexuality From Pulpit; Refuses to 'Ostracize People'*
> 
> *Hillsong NYC Lead Pastor on Homosexuality: Not His Job to Be People's 'Judge and Jury'*
> 
> ...



So wrong. While I agree that we need to love others, I have never understood why people fail to realize that you can speak the truth in love. Telling someone God's truths IS showing love. Since he's a pastor, it makes me sad that he doesn't seem to recognize that while Jesus cared about the condition of the heart, that he was also very clear about instructions given to live a holy life that was pleasing to God. God commands repeatedly that we obey Him. The bible is very clear about homosexuality. Truth is truth is truth. I simply refuse to believe anything else. God's word does not need defending and there's nothing to debate. It is very black and white--one meaning but many applications. 

Shimmie...where you at?????


----------



## cutiebe2 (Dec 20, 2013)

I used to go to this church. The lines were so long that I got tired of waiting that long to go to church. Many of the church members/attendees are very new to the church. I think he has strong opinions but he needs more time to really reel people in and hook them. Since I've been to the church I understand his strategy. I stopped going because I felt as someone still growing in faith myself there were too many new people not enough members to really guide you. About 95% of the church is under the age of 30, new to NYC, etc. 
I think he knows that if he really tells his opinion he can lose people. While some might say he is bending, he has the potential to bring thousands of young people into the faith which many can't do. Although I do remember he had a strong sermon about relationships and pre-marital sex so he has the ability to talk about un-popular topics


----------



## Blackpearl1993 (Dec 20, 2013)

cutiebe2 said:


> I used to go to this church. The lines were so long that I got tired of waiting that long to go to church. Many of the church members/attendees are very new to the church. I think he has strong opinions but he needs more time to really reel people in and hook them. Since I've been to the church I understand his strategy. I stopped going because I felt as someone still growing in faith myself there were too many new people not enough members to really guide you. About 95% of the church is under the age of 30, new to NYC, etc.
> *I think he knows that if he really tells his opinion he can lose people.* While some might say he is bending, he has the potential to bring thousands of young people into the faith which many can't do. Although I do remember he had a strong sermon about relationships and pre-marital sex so he has the ability to talk about un-popular topics



I thank you for sharing your perspective as someone who attended this pastor's church. However, as to the part I bolded above...I believe you are probably right that he feels that way. However, he doesn't need to share his opinion...just the facts of God's Word. He needs to share the truth. God is the one who will handle the growth of this church. All the pastor needs to do is stand on God's inerrant Word.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 21, 2013)

cutiebe2 said:


> I used to go to this church. The lines were so long that I got tired of waiting that long to go to church. Many of the church members/attendees are very new to the church. I think he has strong opinions but he needs more time to really reel people in and hook them. Since I've been to the church I understand his strategy. I stopped going because I felt as someone still growing in faith myself there were too many new people not enough members to really guide you. About 95% of the church is under the age of 30, new to NYC, etc.
> 
> I think he knows that if he really tells his opinion he can lose people. While some might say he is bending, he has the potential to bring thousands of young people into the faith which many can't do. Although I do remember he had a strong sermon about relationships and pre-marital sex so he has the ability to talk about un-popular topics



He's back peddling.. and fearful of losing numbers rather than souls.   He needs to stop the foolishness; as he cannot serve two masters.      Souls are going to hell because he's 'not stepping up to the truth.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 21, 2013)

Blackpearl1993 said:


> So wrong. While I agree that we need to love others, I have never understood why people fail to realize that you can speak the truth in love. Telling someone God's truths IS showing love. Since he's a pastor, it makes me sad that he doesn't seem to recognize that while Jesus cared about the condition of the heart, that he was also very clear about instructions given to live a holy life that was pleasing to God. God commands repeatedly that we obey Him. The bible is very clear about homosexuality. Truth is truth is truth. I simply refuse to believe anything else. God's word does not need defending and there's nothing to debate. It is very black and white--one meaning but many applications.
> 
> [B][/B]Shimmie...where you at?????



Blackpearl1993


----------



## cutiebe2 (Dec 21, 2013)

Shimmie said:


> He's back peddling.. and fearful of losing numbers rather than souls.   He needs to stop the foolishness; as he cannot serve two masters.      Souls are going to hell because he's 'not stepping up to the truth.



It doesn't sound like he is not stepping up. He never said yay or nay about the subject. It just said that he won't discuss it on national TV, rather in the confines of his church and directly to the people who he is supposed to guide.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 21, 2013)

cutiebe2 said:


> It doesn't sound like he is not stepping up. He never said yay or nay about the subject. It just said that he won't discuss it on national TV, rather in the confines of his church and directly to the people who he is supposed to guide.



I've just watched the video.  He's lukewarm.  He's not stepping up.  He literally 'skirted' around the entire issue of homosexuality.   He avoided saying it was sin.  Even more dangerous he quoted what every gay church proclaims and lies about Jesus....  Jesus indeed spoke on society AND sin.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Dec 21, 2013)

Blackpearl1993 said:


> So wrong. While I agree that we need to love others, I have never understood why people fail to realize that you can speak the truth in love. Telling someone God's truths IS showing love. Since he's a pastor, it makes me sad that he doesn't seem to recognize that while Jesus cared about the condition of the heart, that he was also very clear about instructions given to live a holy life that was pleasing to God. God commands repeatedly that we obey Him. The bible is very clear about homosexuality. Truth is truth is truth. I simply refuse to believe anything else. God's word does not need defending and there's nothing to debate. It is very black and white--one meaning but many applications.
> 
> Shimmie...where you at?????



You better tell it!!!!


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Dec 21, 2013)

What you compromise to keep, you will lose.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 21, 2013)

Nice & Wavy said:


> What you compromise to keep, you will lose.



You better tell it.... 

His compromise is gaining 'numbers', yet once he gets the 'numbers' he is still responsible to minister the Truth to their souls.  

When I gave my heart to the Lord, there was a whole lot of 'Shimmie' that had to be surrendered.   A LOT!   And my Pastors did not hesitate to put the Truth out there for me to either accept it or reject it.    I accepted the Truth and got right with God.   

This man isn't teaching the Truth of deliverance to these gays.  He's teaching that the lifestyle is accepted.   It sounds very much as if he is saying that if one is gay it's acceptable to stay that way.   

Ministry is not a popularity contest.  

Jesus said it clearly in Matthew 10:34:   

_Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword._

The purpose of the 'sword' (which is His Word) is to 'sever' the ties to sin and bondages, i.e. homosexuality.

I fully realize that love is imminent for people to 'come in'... I fully get that.  However the Truth still has to come forth, like it or not.


----------



## theAlist (Dec 21, 2013)

I use to go to this church.  I stopped because I felt he was lukewarm.  The praise and worship was great...his preaching...not so much.  There was one time he didn't even open the bible.  That was the last time I went.  He is a really cool and down to earth guy and has the ability to connect with people of all races and cultures...I feel he may be scared of losing people by not staying lukewarm.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 21, 2013)

theAlist said:


> I use to go to this church.  I stopped because I felt he was lukewarm.  The praise and worship was great...his preaching...not so much.  There was one time he didn't even open the bible.  That was the last time I went.  He is a really cool and down to earth guy and has the ability to connect with people of all races and cultures...I feel he may be scared of losing people by not staying lukewarm.



I feel sorry for Churches and Ministers like this.  They're afraid of the 'backlash', being called 'haters', homophobes, intolerant, rather than be called righteous.   They're straddling the fence, however that's not where God is... 


_Who is on the LORD'S side? Let him come unto me._

Exodus 32:26


----------



## Blackpearl1993 (Dec 21, 2013)

Blackpearl1993 said:


> So wrong. While I agree that we need to love others, I have never understood why people fail to realize that you can speak the truth in love. Telling someone God's truths IS showing love. Since he's a pastor, it makes me sad that he doesn't seem to recognize that while Jesus cared about the condition of the heart, that he was also very clear about instructions given to live a holy life that was pleasing to God. God commands repeatedly that we obey Him. The bible is very clear about homosexuality. Truth is truth is truth. I simply refuse to believe anything else. God's word does not need defending and there's nothing to debate. It is very black and white--one meaning but many applications.
> 
> Shimmie...where you at?????





Shimmie said:


> I've just watched the video.  He's lukewarm.  He's not stepping up.  He literally 'skirted' around the entire issue of homosexuality.   He avoided saying it was sin.  Even more dangerous he quoted what every gay church proclaims and lies about Jesus....  Jesus indeed spoke on society AND sin.


Yes, ma'am! You took the words right out of my mouth. We are commanded to speak God's truth no matter what forum we are in....public, private, church, home, etc. , etc.


----------



## topsyturvy86 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ok here again with my unpopular views.. I don't think he's being lukewarm, I think he's applying wisdom here

Our Senior Pastor preached a powerful message some weeks ago and something he said really stood out was that 'we as Christians are not called to be God's rule enforcers but to be His grace dispensers'. This is much much easier said than done. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts; we're called to love and not judge. God died for the gays and us alike, we are all sinners in our own way. He washed our feet so we can wash the feet of others not judge their feet. The bible says that it is God's kindness and not His judgement that brings us to repentance. Likewise it is our kindness that will bring people to the feet of Jesus where they will find repentance and life and not our judgement

Back to topic, there is a place for taking strong views about homosexuality where it would be received in the Spirit that it was said or the way that it was intended and with love and I don't believe that place is on national television. I think it's high time Christians started being known more for what they stand for and not what they stand against; it's not just telling the world that we love them but showing them, even if that means not saying things that could be hurtful or marginalise. I'm not saying it should never be said all I'm saying is that there is a time and a place for it as this determines how the message will be received

All sinners including gays should know that they are welcome in God's Church because that is where they will encounter Jesus whose job it actually is to transform the heart


----------



## MrsHaseeb (Dec 23, 2013)

topsyturvy86 said:


> Ok here again with my unpopular views.. I don't think he's being lukewarm, I think he's applying wisdom here
> 
> Our Senior Pastor preached a powerful message some weeks ago and something he said really stood out was that 'we as Christians are not called to be God's rule enforcers but to be His grace dispensers'. This is much much easier said than done. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts; we're called to love and not judge. God died for the gays and us alike, we are all sinners in our own way. He washed our feet so we can wash the feet of others not judge their feet. The bible says that it is God's kindness and not His judgement that brings us to repentance. Likewise it is our kindness that will bring people to the feet of Jesus where they will find repentance and life and not our judgement
> 
> ...



Hmmmm.... Can you show me this in the Bible? Or did the apostles simply preach the message of the Gospel and let the chips fall where they may? There is a level of being Spirit led, even when telling the truth. However, the idea of showing love today means playing patty cake with people and never mentioning their sin and constantly talking about grace. The grace of the modern church is a false grace. The grace of God, which is in Christ, teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lust. God's grace is there for homosexuals and all sinners to see that they are sinners and give them power to resist sin once they repent. Making grace into an attribute of God that overlooks sin is feeding a false Gospel to people and will end up producing false converts, people who never repent and start doing church. Sinners are not welcomed in God's church because God's church, his Ekklesia, consists of a body of Spirit filled believers. God's Church is not a building..


----------



## disgtgyal (Dec 23, 2013)

topsyturvy86 said:


> Ok here again with my unpopular views.. I don't think he's being lukewarm, I think he's applying wisdom here
> 
> Our Senior Pastor preached a powerful message some weeks ago and something he said really stood out was that 'we as Christians are not called to be God's rule enforcers but to be His grace dispensers'. This is much much easier said than done. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts; we're called to love and not judge. God died for the gays and us alike, we are all sinners in our own way. He washed our feet so we can wash the feet of others not judge their feet. The bible says that it is God's kindness and not His judgement that brings us to repentance. Likewise it is our kindness that will bring people to the feet of Jesus where they will find repentance and life and not our judgement
> 
> ...



Because thanks was not enough!! I totally agree with everything you said. I always say its the holy spirit's job to convict not other believers. I feel like some believers want him to "take a stand" so he can prove he stands for Christ and I feel like other pastors do it partly for that reason and to be controversial. I think about the many times the Pharisee tried to get Jesus to "take a stand" but when he replied to them it was never the way he was "supposed to". I think this pastor very much used wisdom.


----------



## MrsHaseeb (Dec 23, 2013)

disgtgyal said:


> Because thanks was not enough!! I totally agree with everything you said. I always say its the holy spirit's job to convict not other believers. I feel like some believers want him to "take a stand" so he can prove he stands for Christ and I feel like other pastors do it partly for that reason and to be controversial. I think about the many times the Pharisee tried to get Jesus to "take a stand" but when he replied to them it was never the way he was "supposed to". I think this pastor very much used wisdom.



The Pharisees tried to bait Jesus to have an excuse to crucify him. This man is cowering to the homosexual spirit and refusing to say what needs to plainly be said for the souls that are at stake. Huge difference. He is looking for a following and a platform, Christ was not. There is no comparison between Christ and what this man is doing. Yes, people can and do say things to be controversial (I.e. Fred Phelps) but the Gospel is controversial and divisive even when preached with love. Why? Because everyone will not accept it.  We are to speak the truth and only God knows whose heart will be the fertile soil.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 24, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> *The Pharisees tried to bait Jesus to have an excuse to crucify him. This man is cowering to the homosexual spirit and refusing to say what needs to plainly be said for the souls that are at stake. *
> 
> Huge difference. He is looking for a following and a platform, Christ was not.
> 
> ...




MrsHaseeb....

Thank you so much for sharing the difference, for there is no comparison here.   Jesus didn't 'conform' to society, He came to change their hearts from sin.   Jesus excepted all yet He made it plain and simple, 'Go and sin no more'.

This man is afraid of the public 'backlash' so therefore he avoids public pronouncements that gay is sin.   I agree that he doesn't have to be cruel nor to beat people over the head with it... I get that.   Yet, he still has to call it what it is... sin; and to say it publicly.  

There's a way to say this and not be crude with it.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 24, 2013)

topsyturvy86 said:


> Ok here again with my unpopular views.. I don't think he's being lukewarm, I think he's applying wisdom here
> 
> Our Senior Pastor preached a powerful message some weeks ago and something he said really stood out was that 'we as Christians are not called to be God's rule enforcers but to be His grace dispensers'. This is much much easier said than done. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts; we're called to love and not judge. God died for the gays and us alike, we are all sinners in our own way. He washed our feet so we can wash the feet of others not judge their feet. The bible says that it is God's kindness and not His judgement that brings us to repentance. Likewise it is our kindness that will bring people to the feet of Jesus where they will find repentance and life and not our judgement
> 
> ...



This is how the enemy deceives... twisting the truth to protect the sin.  

And it also proves what Jesus said about denying Him in public.   These 'ministers' who will not speak up are fearful of man rather than 'fearful' (reverent) towards God.    

How many gays are attending these publically silenced churches are being delivered?   They're being pacified into their sin, rather than set free from it. They come into these churches never being told the truth and go out as spiritually dead as when they came in.  

God does indeed love gays, so much so that He does not want them to perish.  Hence His 'Word', "God chastises those whom He loves."  

These 'silent' churches cannot allow these precious souls to sit there and not tell them that their souls are in danger and that God wants to set them free.  These silent ministers are ducking and dodging  being targeted by gays who want to stay that way.


----------



## MrsHaseeb (Dec 24, 2013)

Shimmie said:


> How many gays are attending these publically silenced churches are being delivered?   They're being pacified into their sin, rather than set free from it. They come into these churches never being told the truth and go out as spiritually dead as when they came in.



This portion... Heart breaking. Because some of them really are seeking freedom and they are left in bondage under the guise of love. That is not love.


----------



## Blackpearl1993 (Dec 24, 2013)

Shimmie said:


> This is how the enemy deceives... twisting the truth to protect the sin.
> 
> And it also proves what Jesus said about denying Him in public.   These 'ministers' who will not speak up are fearful of man rather than 'fearful' (reverent) towards God.
> 
> ...



Amen, amen all day long! I am so very tired of lukewarm Christianity which distorts God's truth and does not make true disciples of anyone. God wants us to go and make disciples of all nations. We have got to tell people the WHOLE truth about God and His Word, and stop making excuses for sin. Allowing our fellow man to remain broken and spiritually dead when we know better is a tragedy ......we've got walking dead among us and Christians are acting like this is actually okay. It's tragic with eternal consequences for those who haven't come to Christ as well as for those who could have preached the truth and chose not to do so. We are in the end times......we really have no time for this foolishness. Souls are at stake.


----------



## topsyturvy86 (Dec 24, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Hmmmm.... Can you show me this in the Bible? Or did the apostles simply preach the message of the Gospel and let the chips fall where they may? There is a level of being Spirit led, even when telling the truth. However, the idea of showing love today means playing patty cake with people and never mentioning their sin and constantly talking about grace. The grace of the modern church is a false grace. The grace of God, which is in Christ, teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lust. God's grace is there for homosexuals and all sinners to see that they are sinners and give them power to resist sin once they repent. Making grace into an attribute of God that overlooks sin is feeding a false Gospel to people and will end up producing false converts, people who never repent and start doing church. Sinners are not welcomed in God's church because God's church, his Ekklesia, consists of a body of Spirit filled believers. God's Church is not a building..



Where in the bible -> Romans 2

"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgement on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 *Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?*

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed."

Back up to chapter 1 and it's talking about all types of sin not just homosexuality; we call others out n their sin when we have sin (and *everyone* has sinned and fallen short of God's glory). It is the kindness and the love of God that brought and continues to bring to bring me to repentance

_"However, the idea of showing love today means playing patty cake with people and never mentioning their sin and constantly talking about grace."_ 

This is not what I said; I expressly said that i'm not saying don't talk about it but there is a time and place when the message would be received as intended. For example your husband does something stupid when you're both out with your friends; do you tell him off there and then even though it's the truth that you're saying or is there a better time and place to bring up whatever it is? I can tell you that bringing it up in public might come across as disrespectful to him and lose the spirit with which you intended and might cause more harm than good. Bringing it up at a better time and place probably in the privacy of your home would have a greater impact. You can bring it up in public because you want to make a point or other reasons or you can bring it up at a better time and place out of love and consideration for how he might feel. 

It is the Holy Spirit whose job it is to convict a person of their sin and not ours. We can bring up their sin in love and not with the purpose to shame or condemn or prove a point. It is our job to love our neighbour as ourselves; not just our saved neighbour, but our neighbour, full stop.

John 16 

"7 However, I am telling you nothing but the truth when I say it is profitable (good, expedient, advantageous) for you that I go away. Because if I do not go away, the Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Advocate, Intercessor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you [into close fellowship with you]; but if I go away, I will send Him to you [to be in close fellowship with you].
8 *And when He comes, He will convict and convince the world and bring demonstration to it about sin and about righteousness (uprightness of heart and right standing with God) and about judgment:*
9 *About sin, because they do not believe in Me [trust in, rely on, and adhere to Me];*
10 About righteousness (uprightness of heart and right standing with God), because I go to My Father, and you will see Me no longer;"

I most strongly disagree with this comment _'Sinners are not welcomed in God's church because God's church, his Ekklesia, consists of a body of Spirit filled believers'_

If this is true, I shouldn't bring my unbelieving friends to Church to potentially meet with Jesus because they would not be welcome. If this is true I most certainly should never have been welcome to church and I should never have been saved because I never had to right to be saved because I was not ready or spirit filled when I came to church. This is how I always felt in church and one of the reasons I would say why I never got saved until I was 21; I never felt welcome in church and so automatically denied the opportunity to meet Jesus and develop a personal relationship with him. When I came as I was (as Jesus said we should) to a place I felt welcome and felt the genuine love of God through His people regardless of me or my background, my heart softened to receive my saviour. God IS love. His Kingdom is not an exclusive club for people that have it all together, it is an inclusive family where all can come and find the answer to life and grow into all that God has called them to be


----------



## topsyturvy86 (Dec 24, 2013)

Shimmie said:


> This is how the enemy deceives... twisting the truth to protect the sin.
> 
> And it also proves what Jesus said about denying Him in public.   These 'ministers' who will not speak up are fearful of man rather than 'fearful' (reverent) towards God.
> 
> ...



I don't think Carl has ever denied Jesus in public. Choosing not to discuss homosexuality overtly on national television for whatever reason and making statements that could be received wrong in public is not denying Christ in any way shape or form.

_How many gays are attending these publically silenced churches are being delivered?   They're being pacified into their sin, rather than set free from it. They come into these churches never being told the truth and go out as spiritually dead as when they came in.  _

Because he refused to make overt statements on national television doesn't make it a church where the truth is not and cannot be told/ taught/ preached; hence I think the above statement is with all due respect under informed and to a great degree quite false. I know of 2 or 3 people that were gay prior to meeting Jesus and surrendered that part of their life to God and through His Spirit their lives stand as an amazing testimony to the goodness of God! Of those all of them were attracted to God's house & God's people chose to love them and place value on them and lead them to the One who has the ability to change and convict of sin. And through His Spirit their lives have been completely transformed. 

A fairly popular speaker actually - Sy Rogers has had a similar experience. How did he find Christ? Some Christians loved on him and showed him grace; when he told them he was gay he expected to be unwelcome in their presence but he wasn't; he found salvation and has a family now and teaches and preaches the Word of God. 

No one is saying pander to sin but love in spite of; discuss sin by all means but with wisdom. Jesus ate with the tax collectors - the bad people of the day, that everyone wanted to stay well away from, does it mean he agreed with everything he did, no but at the end of the encounter with Nicodemus Nicodemus had a change of heart

I think love is where for Christians the gospel is controversial; it's easy to love vulnerable people or people 'deserving' of love but how about people that we deem as not deserving of? 

... and I exit the thread here


----------



## disgtgyal (Dec 24, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> The Pharisees tried to bait Jesus to have an excuse to crucify him. This man is cowering to the homosexual spirit and refusing to say what needs to plainly be said for the souls that are at stake. Huge difference. He is looking for a following and a platform, Christ was not. There is no comparison between Christ and what this man is doing. Yes, people can and do say things to be controversial (I.e. Fred Phelps) but the Gospel is controversial and divisive even when preached with love. Why? Because everyone will not accept it.  We are to speak the truth and only God knows whose heart will be the fertile soil.



I do not believe he was cowering to anyone and let's  be real I don't know any person living in this country who doesn't know homosexuality is against  Christian beliefs or rather is forbidden based on the bible, so again what was the agenda of the reporter, it was to get him to state an obvious to create controversy which the enemy loves because instead of talking about God's love we are now being redirected to speak about what we can't do which was same tactic used in the garden, and this pastor is smart enough not to fall for it. I have no doubt if a homosexual person came to him for guidance he would lead him in the right direction. Believers love to choose certain sins to highlight when in God's eyes homosexuality is no different from lying or stealing.


----------



## MrsHaseeb (Dec 24, 2013)

disgtgyal said:


> I do not believe he was cowering to anyone and let's  be real I don't know any person living in this country who doesn't know homosexuality is against  Christian beliefs or rather is forbidden based on the bible, so again what was the agenda of the reporter, it was to get him to state an obvious to create controversy which the enemy loves because instead of talking about God's love we are now being redirected to speak about what we can't do which was same tactic used in the garden, and this pastor is smart enough not to fall for it. I have no doubt if a homosexual person came to him for guidance he would lead him in the right direction. Believers love to choose certain sins to highlight when in God's eyes homosexuality is no different from lying or stealing.



You're right. Homosexuality is not different in God's eyes from lying or stealing. Its the world and those who support the homosexual agenda that wants us to shut our mouths and make homosexuality normal. We don't see entire movements to make stealing and lying normal. If it's the same, then why is homosexuality being shoved down our throats at every turn? Refusing to see this means you're missing the fact that a demonic principality is behind the entire homosexual movement and it's meant to shut the Christian up and keep people in bondage to this sin. By his refusal to speak against it, he has agreed with it. If you can't speak the truth then you don't need to be a pastor. It's obvious by his holding hands with many secular artists that this man is trying to be friends with the world, which makes him an enemy of God. I'm not making excuses for him. I know by his fruit that he's not a follower of Christ.


----------



## cutiebe2 (Dec 24, 2013)

Those are some bold statement to make without having ever met the man based on an article/interview which he did not have direction over, which was not edited by him, and in which we are basing this entire thread off of one question. 

As I said before I have been to this church a couple of times. It's not my favorite church but I could never say he is not a follower of Christ.


----------



## MrsHaseeb (Dec 25, 2013)

cutiebe2 said:


> Those are some bold statement to make without having ever met the man based on an article/interview which he did not have direction over, which was not edited by him, and in which we are basing this entire thread off of one question.
> 
> As I said before I have been to this church a couple of times. It's not my favorite church but I could never say he is not a follower of Christ.



Hi. His actions say he is not a follower of Christ. Jesus said we'd know them by their fruit. This man, in order to keep his popularity, will not tell homosexuals that they are in sin. He loves the praise of men and wants to be friends with the world. He has photos with JayZ, who blasphemes Christ in his music and all kinds of immoral people who attend his church because it suits their lifestyle. That is another Jesus and another gospel, one that will not save, but only give a form of godliness while denying Christ, the true power.


----------



## HWAY (Dec 26, 2013)

Ezekiel 3:17 (KJV)

17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.


----------



## momi (Dec 28, 2013)

Blackpearl1993 said:


> Amen, amen all day long!* I am so very tired of lukewarm Christianity which distorts God's truth and does not make true disciples of anyone.* God wants us to go and make disciples of all nations. We have got to tell people the WHOLE truth about God and His Word, and stop making excuses for sin. Allowing our fellow man to remain broken and spiritually dead when we know better is a tragedy ......we've got walking dead among us and Christians are acting like this is actually okay. It's tragic with eternal consequences for those who haven't come to Christ as well as for those who could have preached the truth and chose not to do so. We are in the end times......we really have no time for this foolishness. Souls are at stake.




Well said.  

..................


----------

