# porosity - the forgotten step



## newflowers (Feb 23, 2009)

I was doing my hair yesterday, and, of course, used my Porosity Control, as one of the steps after using clarifying shampoo and a little protein. For those who use this product, you know what great results happen when you lower the pH, the cuticles lie down, and the conditioners you apply work even better. So I was in the hair zone where I feel my hair is so strong and silky, and I'm really happy with my progress. It occurred to me that there are a number of new members who have dryness, strength, products, breakage, tangling issues, and perhaps what they have is lifted cuticle issues - which can be fixed by acidifying the hair, thus the need for Porosity Control, a properly prepared acv rinse, or being aware of the pH of your hair products. 

For a time, there were a number of posts about porosity but not so many lately that I've noticed. What do you ladies think - how are you hardening the hair shaft after treating it? Are you using products to ensure the cuticle lie flat? For the newer ladies, are you in the know (and I'm late as usual) about the need to lower the pH of your hair? Do you know the pH of your water and hair products and the difference between/importance of alkaline or acid levels in your hair products? 

I'm going to try to include a poll, something I've never done before.


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## Denise11 (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm not sure but I think it was Supergirl that has a thread on Porosity and how to treat it with protein. 

I just read it a couple of days ago. My new hair care products took care of my chronic dryness, so I guess the shortage of protein was my problem.

No. It wasn't Supergirl. I read in through a link that a LHCF member Neith gave.


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## smitmarv (Feb 23, 2009)

newflowers said:


> Do you know the pH of your water and hair products and the difference between/importance of alkaline or acid levels in your hair products?



Please educate us, that would be great!  Also what is the perfect acv rinse?


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## PreciousPearl (Feb 23, 2009)

I have been using Porosity Control mixed in with my DC. Should I continue to use it this way or use it before I DC?


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## supermodelsonya (Feb 23, 2009)

I have a thread about it on my blog. I've learned this the hard way. Once I incorporated the porosity control, my hair has never felt better. My hair has "slip" now.


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## Denise11 (Feb 23, 2009)

I want to know too. Was that link correct. I want to make sure my porosity is balanced but I don't need more products, I already have way too many.


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## frizzy (Feb 23, 2009)

I don't understand using PC types of products before conditioning, wouldn't that lock out the conditioner?  Can somebody 'splain?


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## Stepiphanie (Feb 23, 2009)

I also need some clarification on exactly how to use PC? and How often? I bought the product used it maybe 2xs and it just sits there..


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## newflowers (Feb 23, 2009)

Porosity is the measure of the hair's ability to absorb moisture. This is determined by the condition of the hair's cuticle layer (the overlapping scales of the hair shaft), and is rated as low, normal, and high. In normal, healthy hair, the cuticle is compact and inhibits the penetration of the hair shaft by moisture - both moisture going in, and moisture coming out. When the cuticle is overly compact and prevents the penetration of the hair by moisture it has low porosity. Hair with low porosity is harder to process, and is resistant to haircolor and perms. Low porosity hair must usually be softened prior to other chemical services. Hair with high porosity is hair whose cuticle layer is open and the hair too-readily absorbs moisture. Overly-porous hair also releases moisture easily and becomes dry and is easily damaged. Acid-balanced conditioning treatments are used to contract the cuticle layer and lock-in moisture on overly-porous hair. (hairfinder.com)

Also of interest is this website (http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_toc.htm) which has tons of information about hair - some of the attached pictures come from this site.

picture 1 - smooth cuticle/normal cuticle/ lifted cuticle (porous hair). 
picture 2 - a healthy hair shaft with flat cuticles
picture 3 - hair shaft with cuticles lifted (porous hair)
picture 4 - hair shaft with cuticles lift - note how hair rub/twist around each other 
picture 5 - just a gross picture of a split end

The use of a product that lowers the hair's pH causes the cuticles to lie flat which results in smooth hair with the moisture locked in. The hair retains moisture and is less likely to tangle and break.


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## guyanesesista (Feb 23, 2009)

I've been thinking about PC lately. My hair been hard to style for a while now and doesn't seen to hold moisture that well. I plan on buying some PC. Please tell us when we're supposed to use it. Before or after DC?


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## Patricia (Feb 23, 2009)

supermodelsonya said:


> I have a thread about it on my blog. I've learned this the hard way. Once I incorporated the porosity control, my hair has never felt better. My hair has "slip" now.


 Blog.  can you pm me the web address Thanks supermodelsonya

good thread


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## newflowers (Feb 23, 2009)

smitmarv said:


> Please educate us, that would be great! Also what is the perfect acv rinse?


 
I included some pictures, a bit more information, and a link to get yet more information. And the "perfect" acv rinse would be one in which the proportions of acid (vinegar) and water have a pH which closes the cuticles. I use 1/2 cup of Braggs in 2 quarts of water - my hair is smooth afterwards. This is perfect for me- we already know that each of us my find perfect for her own hair. I think if you use an acv rinse and your hair feels rough, the proportions should be adjusted to met your hair's needs.




> I also need some clarification on exactly how to use PC? and How often? I bought the product used it maybe 2xs and it just sits there..


 
My hair products have a low pH, so I use Porosity Control on the days when I use a chelating or clarifying shampoo or after a protein treatment - which for me is every three weeks or so. How often you use PC would depend on your hair and the products you use. If you're experiencing dryness, I would suggest you give PC a try more often with your deep conditioning and protein treatments - maybe once a week until you get the dryness issue under control. 



> I have been using Porosity Control mixed in with my DC. Should I continue to use it this way or use it before I DC?


 
I don't mix products in that way, so I cannot say. Ultimately, if the mix is working for you, then you don't have a problem. I dc with heat which lifts the cuticles and then use PC which closes them. Using a clarifying or chelating shampoo also lifts the cuticles, so I use PC then as well. 




> I have a thread about it on my blog. I've learned this the hard way. Once I incorporated the porosity control, my hair has never felt better. My hair has "slip" now.


 
So, so true - it's a simple step that I knew nothing about before I came here to LHCF, but it's a step that makes all of the difference. I'm hoping this post and the responses by more experienced members will help some of the newer members.


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## rainbowknots (Feb 23, 2009)

This may be the answer to my problem, my hair still breaks no matter what I do to it. I'll subscribe for more information


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## newflowers (Feb 23, 2009)

guyanesesista said:


> I've been thinking about PC lately. My hair been hard to style for a while now and doesn't seen to hold moisture that well. I plan on buying some PC. Please tell us when we're supposed to use it. Before or after DC?


 
I use PC after the dc because the heat of the dryer lifts the cuticles allowing the conditioner to penetrate the hair shaft.  I also use during my relaxer process.


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 23, 2009)

I have recently included Roux Porosity Control into my regimen, especially for before I heat style my hair. It makes a big difference in my hair.


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## Golden75 (Feb 23, 2009)

frizzy said:


> I don't understand using PC types of products before conditioning, wouldn't that lock out the conditioner? Can somebody 'splain?


 
I thought the same so I would do my ACV rinse after DC, especailly when using heat.  Hope someone can help clarify


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## taz007 (Feb 23, 2009)

newflowers said:


> I use PC after the dc because the heat of the dryer lifts the cuticles allowing the conditioner to penetrate the hair shaft. * I also use during my relaxer process.*




How do you use it DURING the relaxer process???


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## deusa80 (Feb 23, 2009)

newflowers said:


> Porosity is the measure of the hair's ability to absorb moisture. This is determined by the condition of the hair's cuticle layer (the overlapping scales of the hair shaft), and is rated as low, normal, and high. In normal, healthy hair, the cuticle is compact and inhibits the penetration of the hair shaft by moisture - both moisture going in, and moisture coming out. When the cuticle is overly compact and prevents the penetration of the hair by moisture it has low porosity. Hair with low porosity is harder to process, and is resistant to haircolor and perms. Low porosity hair must usually be softened prior to other chemical services. Hair with high porosity is hair whose cuticle layer is open and the hair too-readily absorbs moisture. Overly-porous hair also releases moisture easily and becomes dry and is easily damaged. Acid-balanced conditioning treatments are used to contract the cuticle layer and lock-in moisture on overly-porous hair. (hairfinder.com)
> 
> Also of interest is this website (http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_toc.htm) which has tons of information about hair - some of the attached pictures come from this site.
> 
> ...


 

Thanks for this!! This is very timely. I just posted a thread yesterday about my hair and it seems I have a porosity issue...so this is good to know!


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## newflowers (Feb 23, 2009)

Golden75 said:


> I thought the same so I would do my ACV rinse after DC, especailly when using heat. Hope someone can help clarify


 
I use PC after I deep condition my hair and after I use a chelating or clarifying shampoo because the heat lifts the cuticle, and the PC lowers it to make the hair shaft smooth again. I use both an acv rinse and PC during my relaxer process which makes a significant positive difference in my hair. 

My point is writing this post is not to tell others how to do their hair; I would not presume to know which products or processes work best for someone else's hair. In my home, my hair and each of my daughters hair all require different methods and products - everyone's hair is different. My point is to inform some of the newer members about the need to seal the cuticle with a product that has a low pH which some may or may not need.  For instance, if you are using Keracare products, the pH is low, so you may not need this step. I don't use that product line, but I have read about it, and it advertises the pH level on the bottle. I use Phyto - same thing - lower pH. I am certain there are a number of other products that have low pH. 

Do you know the pH of your products? Of your water? For those who seem to be doing everything right but still have problems with dryness and breakage, lowering the pH could well be the missing step in their hair care regimes. Some may use a pH lowering product at various times in the hair care process. Other may use products that have a low pH and not need to make any changes. I think having the necessary information to properly care for our hair in the single most important step in doing so.


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## newflowers (Feb 23, 2009)

taz007 said:


> How do you use it DURING the relaxer process???


 
After I prepare my hair for the relaxer, I apply the relaxer, Next I rinse, use a protein/reconstructor concoction, rinse, neutralize, rinse, acv rinse, neutralize a few more time, use a chelating shampoo, rinse, use the remainder of the concoction, rinse, deep condition usually with heat, rinse, use PC, rinse - that's my relaxer process. 

I did not mean to be unclear - I do not use the product in the relaxer.


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## taz007 (Feb 23, 2009)

newflowers said:


> After I prepare my hair for the relaxer, I apply the relaxer, Next I rinse, use a protein/reconstructor concoction, rinse, neutralize, rinse, acv rinse, neutralize a few more time, use a chelating shampoo, rinse, use the remainder of the concoction, rinse, deep condition usually with heat, rinse, use PC, rinse - that's my relaxer process.
> 
> I did not mean to be unclear - I do not use the product in the relaxer.




Thank you so much for replying!  Your relaxer "process" sounds just like the one that I employ.


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## butterfly3582 (Feb 23, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I have recently included Roux Porosity Control into my regimen, especially for before I heat style my hair. It makes a big difference in my hair.


 
I swear by this stuff.  I usually add it to my DC at least once or twice a month.  Love it. A staple for me.


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## Pam Pam (Feb 23, 2009)

ladylends said:


> This may be the answer to my problem, my hair still breaks no matter what I do to it. I'll subscribe for more information


 
My daughter's hair is the same way.  I think this may be the answer for her hair.


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## **WonderWoman** (Feb 23, 2009)

*Interesting...this may be the answer to my prayers. I'll do an ACV rinse this weekend and report back. Thanks OT!*


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## Denise11 (Feb 23, 2009)

I think I'm gonna get the Porosity Control Conditioner. I just found a 32oz bottle for $10 at a BSS near me. I think I can try it for that price.


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## newflowers (Feb 23, 2009)

That's a good price. After you've used it, please come back and post a review.


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## Denise11 (Feb 23, 2009)

Yes, I will.


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## Patricia (Feb 23, 2009)

good thread.  I love some Porosity control mixed with my DC


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## deusa80 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ok, can I do an acv rinse and use PC the same day? If so, which one would I use first?

I was thinking Co-wash, DC w/heat, PC and then finally avc rinse... might this work? And if I wanted to add a quick protein treatment(like 2-5 mins), would this go inbetween the cowash and DC?

Sorry for all the questions...I just wanna make sure I do this correctly!


TIA


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## newflowers (Feb 23, 2009)

deusa80 said:


> Ok, can I do an acv rinse and use PC the same day? If so, which one would I use first?
> 
> I was thinking Co-wash, DC w/heat, PC and then finally avc rinse... might this work? And if I wanted to add a quick protein treatment(like 2-5 mins), would this go inbetween the cowash and DC?
> 
> ...


 
I think that the acv rinse and the porosity control do the same thing - you only need to do one.


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## Denise11 (Feb 24, 2009)

newflowers said:


> After I prepare my hair for the relaxer, I apply the relaxer, Next I rinse, use a protein/reconstructor concoction, rinse, neutralize, rinse, acv rinse, neutralize a few more time, use a chelating shampoo, rinse, use the remainder of the concoction, rinse, deep condition usually with heat, rinse, use PC, rinse - that's my relaxer process.
> 
> I did not mean to be unclear - I do not use the product in the relaxer.



Why do you do both, when you just told someone that they only need to do one?  I'm not clear on this.


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## newflowers (Feb 24, 2009)

Denise11 said:


> Why do you do both, when you just told someone that they only need to do one? I'm not clear on this.


 
During the relaxer process I do both for different reasons. The acv is for getting to the white suds because that is sometimes time consuming with phytospecific. the pc during the relaxer process is after the dc to close the cuticle as one of the final steps. using both only happens for me during relaxing; otherwise, i use only pc after deep conditioning with heat. both acv and oc lower the pH of the hair and close the cuticle. 

the question i answered for which i wrote it's the same thing was in reference to a regular wash day not a relaxer day.


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## frizzy (Feb 24, 2009)

I'd like to add that _I don't think_ this needs to be done everyday....


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## newflowers (Feb 24, 2009)

frizzy said:


> I'd like to add that _I don't think_ this needs to be done everyday....


 
very true!


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## Fine 4s (Feb 24, 2009)

newflowers said:


> After I prepare my hair for the relaxer, I apply the relaxer, Next I rinse, use a protein/reconstructor concoction, rinse, neutralize, rinse, acv rinse, neutralize a few more time, use a chelating shampoo, rinse, use the remainder of the concoction, rinse, deep condition usually with heat, rinse, use PC, rinse - that's my relaxer process.
> 
> I did not mean to be unclear - I do not use the product in the relaxer.


 
When I use to perm my hair, the stylist would use a neutralizing 'poo after she applied the relaxer. If u apply the relaxer, rinse and then use a protein/reconstructor how do you know u got all the perm out for SURE? Is rinsing enough? Also, I thought folks weren't suppose to use a protein treatment after applying a relaxer? Are we talking hard core Aphogee treatments?


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## Fine 4s (Feb 24, 2009)

Newflowers,

How long do you leave the PC on after the DC with heat and do/can I sit under a dryer with this product on or no?


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## Denise11 (Feb 24, 2009)

newflowers said:


> During the relaxer process I do both for different reasons. The acv is for getting to the white suds because that is sometimes time consuming with phytospecific. the pc during the relaxer process is after the dc to close the cuticle as one of the final steps. using both only happens for me during relaxing; otherwise, i use only pc after deep conditioning with heat. both acv and oc lower the pH of the hair and close the cuticle.
> 
> the question i answered for which i wrote it's the same thing was in reference to a regular wash day not a relaxer day.



Thanks. I understand now.


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## deusa80 (Feb 24, 2009)

newflowers said:


> I think that the acv rinse and the porosity control do the same thing - you only need to do one.


 
Ok, thanks! I'm going to try the acv rinse tomorrow.


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## Luscious Locks (Feb 24, 2009)

newflowers said:


> After I prepare my hair for the relaxer, I apply the relaxer, Next I rinse, use a protein/reconstructor concoction, rinse, neutralize, rinse, acv rinse, neutralize a few more time, use a chelating shampoo, rinse, use the remainder of the concoction, rinse, deep condition usually with heat, rinse, use PC, rinse - that's my relaxer process.
> 
> I did not mean to be unclear - I do not use the product in the relaxer.


 

WoooooooW! 1. What do you use as your protein reconstructor 2. Do you use Roux Porosity Control or just some other low ph product. I used Joico K-pak Intense Hydrator (ph 3.5) back in the day once after a relaxer and my cuticles layed the hell down and shu-up. I swear to God. Is Porosity Control better than Joico Intense Hydrator? What pH is Porosity Control?

Sorry for all the questions.


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## Luscious Locks (Feb 24, 2009)

oh, i just found it. Porosity Control is 4.5 pH


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## Ms. Analeise (Feb 24, 2009)

Do you think using Beyond the Zone Acid Shock would be a good alternative to use to PC?

I have it in my stash and don't want to buy anything else.  

On the front of the bottle, it says it's a conditioning booster.  It locks down cuticle and locks in color and shine.  It has a 3.8 acid ph balancer level. You mix equal parts in with your conditioner.

I see the ph is not as high as the PC, but I am a natural 4a/b with no color and rarely uses heat. But, when I do blow dry or flat iron, I want my hair to be properly prepped.


Thanks


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## bklyncurly (Feb 24, 2009)

Should naturals use Porosity Control or something similar? I've never used this product or any type of ACV Rinse. My hair is 4a and very curly. It is also very tempermental, so I'm a little nervous putting this in my hair. My hair only likes protein every few months. Otherwise, it takes over and has a mind of its own!  erplexed 

However . . . .
I am experiencing a lot of dryness, which I figured was due to the cold weather. But, it might be an issue with my hair's porosity (did I say that right?). Just a little nervous that I'll wind up looking like Cousin It or worse!


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## peppers01 (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks for this! I have some ACV that's dying for me to use it.


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## newflowers (Feb 24, 2009)

Fine 4s said:


> When I use to perm my hair, the stylist would use a neutralizing 'poo after she applied the relaxer. If u apply the relaxer, rinse and then use a protein/reconstructor how do you know u got all the perm out for SURE? Is rinsing enough? Also, I thought folks weren't suppose to use a protein treatment after applying a relaxer? Are we talking hard core Aphogee treatments?


 
By the time I have rinsed my hair, neutralized it three or four times, used the acv rinse, and the chelating shampoo, trust me, there is no trace of relaxer left. Using the reconstrutor mix immediately after rinsing the relaxer is another great tip I learned here. Because the relaxer has such a high pH, the cuticles are lifted. By applying protein at this time, the ingredients enter the hair shaft where they can do their best work. I don't use a hard core protein like Aphogee; I don't use that product at all. I use the reconstructor that comes with the relaxer kit and to it I add silk amino acids, hydrolyzed wheat protein, and panthenol making enough to use twice - once when I first rinse the relaxer and once after the shampooing. 



> Should naturals use Porosity Control or something similar? I've never used this product or any type of ACV Rinse. My hair is 4a and very curly. It is also very tempermental, so I'm a little nervous putting this in my hair. My hair only likes protein every few months. Otherwise, it takes over and has a mind of its own! erplexed
> 
> However . . . .
> I am experiencing a lot of dryness, which I figured was due to the cold weather. But, it might be an issue with my hair's porosity (did I say that right?). Just a little nervous that I'll wind up looking like Cousin It or worse!


 
I do not know about caring for natural hair because I've been relaxed for a couple of decades or more. I think that it would benefit your hair because products that have a higher pH, and sometimes even just the water, can cause the cuticle to lift. Porosity Control is not a harsh product. Sally's sells little sample bottles for a couple of bucks - maybe you can give it a try and see. I know from reading the boards that other natural haired ladies use far less protein than relaxed ladies, and they use this or do acv rinses, so I think you'd be safe. 




> Do you think using Beyond the Zone Acid Shock would be a good alternative to use to PC?
> 
> I have it in my stash and don't want to buy anything else.
> 
> ...


 
Wow - that sound slike a good product to use as an alternative to PC. It has a lower pH than PC which means it's more acid. How do you like it?




> 1. What do you use as your protein reconstructor 2. Do you use Roux Porosity Control or just some other low ph product. I used Joico K-pak Intense Hydrator (ph 3.5) back in the day once after a relaxer and my cuticles layed the hell down and shu-up. I swear to God. Is Porosity Control better than Joico Intense Hydrator? What pH is Porosity Control?


 
The reconstructor from the kit with added silk amino acids, hydrolyzed wheat protein, and panthenol - makes a GREAT after relaxer strengthening treatment that does not revert my hair. I do use Porosity Control. Joico makes great products; I'll just bet your hair obeyed.  I have not used the Joico, but in addition to the low pH, I think it also has ceramides which are excellent for hair care. Hmmm... maybe I'll give that one a try after I use my bottle of PC - how do you like it? Does it make you hair feel really silky after you use it? PC is 4.5 pH.



> How long do you leave the PC on after the DC with heat and do/can I sit under a dryer with this product on or no?


 
The bottle says to leave on for 30 seconds; I leave it on for a couple of minutes - not long.  I don't sit under the dryer as I'm using it after the dc/rinse in the shower.


I hope I've answered everyone's questions. I am by no means an expert as there are ladies here with far more years of hair experience than I have. I'm very interested in a sample of Beyond the Zone Acid Shock and especially the Joico - both of these sound like very good products.


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## Leesh (Feb 24, 2009)

How do you determine the ph level on products, would all products list the ph balance?


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## newflowers (Feb 24, 2009)

Some products do list the pH. If you really want to know, you can buy litmus paper and test it yourself.


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## Amerie123 (Feb 24, 2009)

so, the lower the pH number, the better for porosity?


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## misstobz (Feb 24, 2009)

Where can you buy litmus paper. I tried a pharmacy, and they said they didnt have any and I should try a pet store (something about fish) erplexed




newflowers said:


> Some products do list the pH. If you really want to know, you can buy litmus paper and test it yourself.


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## bklyncurly (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks! I think I'm going to give this a try this weekend. I'll post an update with the final results. 




newflowers said:


> By the time I have rinsed my hair, neutralized it three or four times, used the acv rinse, and the chelating shampoo, trust me, there is no trace of relaxer left. Using the reconstrutor mix immediately after rinsing the relaxer is another great tip I learned here. Because the relaxer has such a high pH, the cuticles are lifted. By applying protein at this time, the ingredients enter the hair shaft where they can do their best work. I don't use a hard core protein like Aphogee; I don't use that product at all. I use the reconstructor that comes with the relaxer kit and to it I add silk amino acids, hydrolyzed wheat protein, and panthenol making enough to use twice - once when I first rinse the relaxer and once after the shampooing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## newflowers (Feb 25, 2009)

misstobz said:


> Where can you buy litmus paper. I tried a pharmacy, and they said they didnt have any and I should try a pet store (something about fish) erplexed


 

I have a daughter who is a biochem major - she purchased it for me at the uni bookstore. I can understand needing it for aquariums, because one must test the water to ensure a healthy environment for the fish. 

Sorry - I'm not really much help.


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## newflowers (Feb 25, 2009)

amazing said:


> so, the lower the pH number, the better for porosity?


 
As I understand the science of it - and please keep in mind I'm an English teacher and as a general rule don't do science or math (ewww), hair and the scalp are acidic (skin in genreal), and to close the cuticle, an acidic product (PC, acv, or some of the others dicussed here) lowers the pH of the hair and scalp which creates a better growing environment for growing hair and hardens the hair shaft by closing the cuticles. Hair is then better able to maintain a proper moisture level. With the cuticles open, moisture evaporates from the shaft and that causes dryness and subsequent breakage.  

If you check out the link I included on the first page, there is a much better and far more concise (coherent) explanation than mine. You can also check out skinbio.com - also a very good explanation about how hair grows.


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## Kiki82 (Feb 25, 2009)

thanks for the information great post!


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## Ms. Analeise (Feb 25, 2009)

"Wow - that sound slike a good product to use as an alternative to PC. It has a lower pH than PC which means it's more acid. How do you like it?"



newflowers-
I haven't used BTZ yet, it has been in my cabinet since last summer. I may try it sooner than later, though.  If I do, I'll report back to you.


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## MuslimahTresses (Feb 26, 2009)

Thank OP, this is the best thread I read here all week! My hair needs some PC right about now.


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## VirGoViXxEn (Feb 26, 2009)

are u ladies using PC shampoo or conditioner?


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## Aggie (Feb 26, 2009)

Here are a couple of links by Sistaslick that could help answer a few questions for you ladies:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/367189/hair_porosity_help_for_dry_damaged.html?cat=69

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/375435/hair_porosity_help_for_dry_damaged.html?cat=69.

As for the ACV rinse, I have a recipe in my fotki. I sometimes substitute the citric acid rinse (also in my fotki but without the ACV smell) for accomplishing some of the same purposes. Good luck ladies.


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## Aggie (Feb 26, 2009)

VirGoViXxEn said:


> are u ladies using PC shampoo or conditioner?


 
I use both the shampoo and conditioner.


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## Serenity_Peace (Feb 26, 2009)

I like the idea of clarifying first. Once you clarify, I'm not sure it's necessary to follow up with a moisturizing shampoo. I think just clarifying (which also cleanses) and then Porosity Control, followed by the Deep Conditioner seems to work just as well.


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## Serenity_Peace (Feb 26, 2009)

ETA...

Or, you could:

1. Chealate or ACV rinse.
2. Protein
3. Porosity Control
4. Deep Condition

So, in other words, for those who protein but still have problems getting that moisture balance AFTER the protein, perhaps the Porosity Control BEFORE the Deep Conditioning treatment could solve the problem.

I'mma try it this weekend, as I need to perform another protein treatment. I also need to chealate.


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## Serenity_Peace (Feb 26, 2009)

Aggie said:


> I use both the shampoo and conditioner.


 
I have the Roux MENDEX treatment, the Roux Shampoo and the Roux Porosity Control Conditioner! 

LOVE ALL OF THEM!!


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## deusa80 (Feb 26, 2009)

Serenity_Peace said:


> ETA...
> 
> Or, you could:
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for this, I think I'm also going to try this.. I used PC for the first time this week and did it as my last step, but I didn't like how my hair felt afterwards. 

Is the mendex used as some sort of conditioner?


----------



## Sunshyn3 (Feb 26, 2009)

Great topic! I use PCC from the Creme of Nature line about once a week after I shampoo before I DC.  On odd occassions I will add 2-3 tp of it in my DC and go under heat. Works wonders for my hair.

A good way to tell if a product is pH balanced is by looking at the ingredients and see if 1. citric acid 2. malic acid 3. lactic aicd is listed. These all help to lower the pH of the product making it more gentle on your hair.

For more Info, check out my blog --> Roux Porosity Control Conditioner


----------



## SuchMagnificent (Feb 26, 2009)

This is an awesome thread. I recently was having some issues and I will try an ACV rinse later on...


----------



## HairHustla (Feb 26, 2009)

OP,

Thank you for this thread, you are definitely on to something because I have bee spending so much time and money trying to find something or even make something to soften my hair.  My hair would be reasonably soft after washing but as it dried it would go right back to being kind of hard and crunchy so I tried the acv rinse this evening after my co-wash and after reading this thread and I did notice a stark difference.  Thank you for this vital information, you are helping me out sistergirl!


----------



## Serenity_Peace (Feb 26, 2009)

deusa80 said:


> Is the mendex used as some sort of conditioner?


 
The Mendex is a reconstructor. You use that BEFORE any moisturizing treatment or conditioner. I think it's a moderate protein.


----------



## Amelia456 (Feb 26, 2009)

I have been doing an acv rinse after my wash and dc.  I think that is sufficient


----------



## peppers01 (Feb 26, 2009)

I just got my PC today and can't wait to try it when I relax tomorrow. Thanks newflowers!


----------



## melodies815 (Feb 26, 2009)

Not to cause any confusion...

...but wouldn't you protein and condish and THEN use Porosity control as the final step since it locks down the cuticle? 

I read that someone used protein, then PC, then DC'd and did not like the way her hair felt.  That might be because the cuticle was already closed and the moisture could not get in.

I've had PC used on me since I was about 7-8 years old by my mom's beautician.  He's not my beautician now because we are overseas, but he always did all treatments FIRST and finished with PC.  He said it sealed in all his work, and my hair never broke, shed, or anything prior to 2007 when I left the US for hubby's new military duty station.  It also never grew because I knew nothing and protective styling and flat ironed my hair, wore it down all the time and did not sleep with a satin cap.

Anyway...I love this thread.  Thanks, OP!!!  I can't find PC over here and have asked my mom to send it to me.

I hope we find the best way to use it.  What do you think about treatments first and then using PC to "seal them in" (for lack of a better description)?

cj


----------



## newflowers (Feb 26, 2009)

ladies - thanks so much for contributing additional information and links; the more opinions and information we have, the better to grow our shiny locks. 

Depending on what conditioner one uses, PC as the last step is an excellent idea. My last step moisturizing conditioner has a low pH, so I know I'm good on that score, and I like the smell of it better. This weekend, I;m going to try changing my process a bit and use the PC as the very last step to see how I like it. I think if one is unsure about the pH of conditioners used, then PC last is definitely the way to go. 

For the person who said she did not like the way her hair felt after PC, I;m really curious to know your products and steps. To my knowledge (limited though it may be), after PC, or other acidifying step, your hair should feel really silky. Ladies, please correct me if I'm wrong, but even when I think my hair feels silky, PC gives it that extra little something to make it more so.


----------



## deusa80 (Feb 26, 2009)

newflowers said:


> ladies - thanks so much for contributing additional information and links; the more opinions and information we have, the better to grow our shiny locks.
> 
> Depending on what conditioner one uses, PC as the last step is an excellent idea. My last step moisturizing conditioner has a low pH, so I know I'm good on that score, and I like the smell of it better. This weekend, I;m going to try changing my process a bit and use the PC as the very last step to see how I like it. I think if one is unsure about the pH of conditioners used, then PC last is definitely the way to go.
> 
> For the person who said she did not like the way her hair felt after PC, I;m really curious to know your products and steps. To my knowledge (limited though it may be), after PC, or other acidifying step, your hair should feel really silky. Ladies, please correct me if I'm wrong, but even when I think my hair feels silky, PC gives it that extra little something to make it more so.


 

I mentioned that I didn't like how my hair felt after using PC, the best way I can describe it is it felt kinda rough.
I posted it on the my thread about having dry hair even when it's wet:http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=341547&page=4
Not sure if that will work, but there are pics there showing how it looked after I used PC. My hair looked better but didn't feel better.
I also mentioned it in the thread, but I co-washed with Sauve vanilla conditioner, used silicon mix and left on for about 10 mins(no heat) then used Yes To Carrots moisture mask and left on for about 40 mins w/heat, then used PC. 
Do you think any of those products would interfere with how the PC worked?
Maybe I will have to use PC a few times to notice a difference, my hair has a long way to go.


----------



## melodies815 (Feb 26, 2009)

deusa80 said:


> I mentioned that I didn't like how my hair felt after using PC, the best way I can describe it is it felt kinda rough.
> I posted it on the my thread about having dry hair even when it's wet:http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=341547&page=4
> Not sure if that will work, but there are pics there showing how it looked after I used PC. My hair looked better but didn't feel better.
> I also mentioned it in the thread, but I co-washed with Sauve vanilla conditioner, used silicon mix and left on for about 10 mins(no heat) then used Yes To Carrots moisture mask and left on for about 40 mins w/heat, then used PC.
> ...




Hey there!  Sorry for being too lazy to go back to see who posted that she didn't like how her hair felt.

Now that I read your steps, I wonder if you might have done better by starting off with a clarifying shampoo.  Do you usually co-wash?  If so, you probably had build-up and needed to get it off to get the benefit of the PC.  

Also...I am not sure about using the silicon mix after co-washing.  Is that cone-heavy? If so...it definitely would have interfered and kept the cuticle from lying down the way it is supposed to do. The cone coats the hair, thus the reason why is looked good and didn't feel the same.

Anyone else want to chime in on this?  PC is just one of those products that cannot go wrong.  If it does it's usually because of something we did...(hope that doesn't come across the wrong way.  I mean no harm.)

Man, I wish I had had some tonight when I did my hair...

Bless you!
cj


----------



## deusa80 (Feb 26, 2009)

melodies815 said:


> Hey there! Sorry for being too lazy to go back to see who posted that she didn't like how her hair felt.
> 
> Now that I read your steps, I wonder if you might have done better by starting off with a clarifying shampoo. Do you usually co-wash? If so, you probably had build-up and needed to get it off to get the benefit of the PC.
> 
> ...


 


Thanks for responding. I usually do co-wash, but I clarified last week(maybe I need to clarify more often...I don't know yeterplexed). But neither the silicon mix or other conditioner are heavy on cones, they only have 1 each.
I'm washing my hair again this weekend, maybe I'll try clarifying first and skipping the protein and then try the PC. There are a lot of options to try I guess, I have a whole bottle to use, so hopefully I'll find the best way that works for my hair!

On another note, I bought Roux Fermodyl(Formulas 619 and 233) leave in today, they were BOGO at Sally's and I just couldn't resist buying them! Not sure when I'm going to try them...but maybe they will also help.


----------



## LaidBak (Feb 26, 2009)

I bought some PC (and Mendex) about a week ago.  I've used the PC twice so far.  The second time was after my relaxer.  Its too soon for me to make a reliable recommendation.  But the way I use it is to wash, DC with heat, then mix PC with a moisturizing conditioner (Kenra) and apply for only 2 min.  I've gotten good slip both times.  I am hoping this will conquer my dryness and breakage issues and allow me to stretch w/o breakage.  The PC I will use at every wash.  The Mendex may be a once a month thing.


----------



## newflowers (Feb 26, 2009)

deusa80 said:


> I mentioned that I didn't like how my hair felt after using PC, the best way I can describe it is it felt kinda rough.
> I posted it on the my thread about having dry hair even when it's wet:http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=341547&page=4
> Not sure if that will work, but there are pics there showing how it looked after I used PC. My hair looked better but didn't feel better.
> I also mentioned it in the thread, but I co-washed with Sauve vanilla conditioner, used silicon mix and left on for about 10 mins(no heat) then used Yes To Carrots moisture mask and left on for about 40 mins w/heat, then used PC.
> ...


 
I see in a later post that you recently clarified. Since you're using conditioners that have cones, I have a suggestion: clarify again, use the pc, then use the conditioners. If you do that, the cuticles will be flat, and then the cones that coat the hair will still be smooth. 

I also know from personal experience that it takes a little time to whip your hair into shape. First it will begin to look better, then it will begin to feel better, and then it will be better, and then it will get longer and feel better and look better - it takes time.


----------



## CoffeeBean (Feb 27, 2009)

I used to use PC.  I currently use products that have a geat ph balance.  I miss my PC.  I always had amazing slip after using!


----------



## rainbowknots (Feb 27, 2009)

I wanna try this out this weekend, I read a thread where one lady suggested using straight acv for 2 minutes before shampooing, then using the diluted rinse after DCing, what I'm curious about is once you do that final acv rinse and seal the cuticles can you still use a leave in and moisturise, because if your cuticles are sealed, won't that keep out the other stuff?


----------



## Serenity_Peace (Feb 27, 2009)

^^^^ That's a good question.

Bumping for the experts...


----------



## msa (Feb 28, 2009)

melodies815 said:


> I've had PC used on me since I was about 7-8 years old by my mom's beautician.  He's not my beautician now because we are overseas, but he always did all treatments FIRST and finished with PC.  He said it sealed in all his work, and my hair* never *broke, *shed*, or anything prior to 2007 when I left the US for hubby's new military duty station.  It also *never grew* because I knew nothing and protective styling and flat ironed my hair, wore it down all the time and did not sleep with a satin cap.
> 
> cj



Not to dispute your experience but shedding happens regardless of products. It's a natural part of a strand's life cycle so at some point hair is going to shed. Saying that it never did is inaccurate. Maybe you only had a bit that you didn't notice, but it was definitely there.

Also, hair is always growing, unless you're dead. But protective styling, less heat, and covering your hair definitely aid in retention, and that's how we accumulate length.

I hope I'm not being annoying.




ladylends said:


> I wanna try this out this weekend, I read a thread where *one lady suggested using straight acv* for 2 minutes before shampooing, then using the diluted rinse after DCing, what I'm curious about is once you do that final acv rinse and seal the cuticles can you still use a leave in and moisturise, because if your cuticles are sealed, won't that keep out the other stuff?



DO NOT put straight ACV on your hair. You MUST dilute it if you are going to use it. You are asking for a tangled, rough, knotted mess if you use it straight or it's not diluted enough.

They may have suggested acv first because it can remove build up, which will help your DC work better. Acv does help to make the cuticle lie flat and close it, but it's obviously not going to close every little particle out. 

Also, the act of washing and DCing your hair (especially if you use warm water or heat for DCing) lifts up your cuticle again anyway, so that's why you'd use the acv rinse afterward as well.


----------



## deusa80 (Feb 28, 2009)

newflowers said:


> I see in a later post that you recently clarified. Since you're using conditioners that have cones, I have a suggestion: clarify again, use the pc, then use the conditioners. If you do that, the cuticles will be flat, and then the cones that coat the hair will still be smooth.
> 
> I also know from personal experience that it takes a little time to whip your hair into shape. First it will begin to look better, then it will begin to feel better, and then it will be better, and then it will get longer and feel better and look better - it takes time.


 


Thanks for the suggestion. I tried this today, clarified then used the PC, followed by the conditioners and my hair didn't feel rough like it did the first time. It still needs a lot of work though...

Just so I understand correctly, the PC doesn't seal the cuticle, it just allows the cuticle to lay flat and be smooth, is that correct?

I know I will have to do this for a while and try some different methods to see which works best for my hair, but I think I'm on the right track.


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Feb 28, 2009)

Great thread!!

The Joico 17 minute miracle has the PC type product as the second step in the 4 step process.  The first is chealating shampoo, the second the cuticle sealer, third protein, fourth moisture.


----------



## newflowers (Mar 1, 2009)

deusa80 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I tried this today, clarified then used the PC, followed by the conditioners and my hair didn't feel rough like it did the first time. It still needs a lot of work though...
> 
> *Just so I understand correctly, the PC doesn't seal the cuticle, it just allows the cuticle to lay flat and be smooth, is that correct?*
> 
> I know I will have to do this for a while and try some different methods to see which works best for my hair, but I think I'm on the right track.


 
Yes, as I understand it, that is correct. By no means do I have all of the answers, but I highly recommend that anyone interested in more information check out Sistaslick's fotki - she has a wealth of information about this topic and many others.

here is the link: http://public.fotki.com/sistaslick/sistaslicks-healthy/


----------



## ellebelle88 (Mar 1, 2009)

Ok, so I'm confused. What is the difference between sealing the cuticle and having it lie flat? And what effect should we be shooting for?


----------



## newflowers (Mar 1, 2009)

If you refer back to the pictures I posted earlier,, this will make sense. You want the cuticle to be flat/smooth against the hair shaft for all of the reasons discussed. You also want to seal the hair shaft if you tend to have dry hair which means a layer of product to hold in the moisture (think prevent evaporation) to protect your hair when you go out in the elements. 

So the answer is you want both.


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Mar 1, 2009)

This is worth understanding because if you get this down you will have smooth, shinny, moisturized non-tangling hair no matter if you are a 1a hair type or a 4z. This is important.  I'm following the Joicio model and doing my PC right after shampooing and again at final rinse after DCing in some cases.  I also make sure to buy products that are pH balanced for hair.


----------



## morehairplease (Mar 1, 2009)

egan26 said:


> Do you think using Beyond the Zone Acid Shock would be a good alternative to use to PC?
> 
> I have it in my stash and don't want to buy anything else.
> 
> ...



Hi there,

Where did you purchased your acid shock from? I tried sally's and didn't see it?

thanks in advance


----------



## darlingdiva (Mar 1, 2009)

Would PC be okay to use on natural, fine hair?


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Mar 1, 2009)

darlingdiva said:


> Would PC be okay to use on natural, fine hair?


I would dare say it's most important for our types. I'm a fine natural. There are other products other than PC, some ladies use natural methods such as Apple Cider vinegar rinses.  You can use tea rinses too, like green team, they tend to be acidic which helps close the cuticles.


----------



## Buttercreme (Mar 1, 2009)

morehairplease said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Where did you purchased your acid shock from? I tried sally's and didn't see it?
> 
> thanks in advance


 

While in Sally's yesterday, I happen to glance down and I saw the Beyond the Zone-Acid Shock, but it was on the clearance shelf,

I wanted to buy it, but the clerk said it was being discontinued. I didn't want to buy it only to have it work so well and then not be able to find it.


----------



## deusa80 (Mar 1, 2009)

newflowers said:


> Yes, as I understand it, that is correct. By no means do I have all of the answers, but I highly recommend that anyone interested in more information check out Sistaslick's fotki - she has a wealth of information about this topic and many others.
> 
> here is the link: http://public.fotki.com/sistaslick/sistaslicks-healthy/


 

I will take a look, Thank you!


----------



## ellebelle88 (Mar 1, 2009)

newflowers said:


> If you refer back to the pictures I posted earlier,, this will make sense. You want the cuticle to be flat/smooth against the hair shaft for all of the reasons discussed. You also want to seal the hair shaft if you tend to have dry hair which means a layer of product to hold in the moisture (think prevent evaporation) to protect your hair when you go out in the elements.
> 
> So the answer is you want both.



Thank you newflowers, I reread some of the posts on the thread, however what can be done to "seal the cuticle"? I dont think I saw an answer for this one because all I saw was discussion on PC and ACV. I could have missed it, so can you lead me in the right direction? I'm off to read sistaslicks threads!


----------



## newflowers (Mar 1, 2009)

I consider Sistaslick the expert; her articles are educational in the extreme.

If you've got the lower pH to smooth the cuticle so it lies lies flat, then sealing is the next step. 

After I apply my leaveins, I take a few drops of camellia oil, and smooth through my hair. The oil seals in the moisture - think of it as preventing evaporation - so when you go out and about, the elements are not in immediate contact with your hair.


----------



## ellebelle88 (Mar 1, 2009)

Thank you newflowers!


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Mar 1, 2009)

I just got back from TJ Maxx and to my pleasant surprise they had Joico K-Pak Cuticle Sealer!! One bottle for $7.99. I snatched that bad boy up so fast and got outta there!    That's some good stuff. This can be used after relaxers or coloring. Or in my case since I'm natural I'll use it after I do my clarifying shampoos, before my DC.  My new understanding that it's okay to DC after you seal the cuticle you will still get the benefit of the conditioner and I tend to think you seal in more moisture that way....that's just my crazy theory  :scratchch


----------



## newflowers (Mar 1, 2009)

I tell you what AtlantaJJ - between you and a few others, I'm going to have to give Joico products a try - sounds like they have some seriously great products!


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Mar 1, 2009)

newflowers said:


> I tell you what AtlantaJJ - between you and a few others, I'm going to have to give Joico products a try - sounds like they have some seriously great products!


Fine hair loves keratin. K-Pak products are loaded with keratin. I have not had a single problem with protein over load using K-pak or Millcreek proteins.  Not one time, not one problem only thicker, stronger, shinny healthy hair!


----------



## pink gator (Mar 1, 2009)

BIG thanks to the OP!

I'm so happy I stumbled upon this thread! 

I have fine, permanently colored hair, and I've been following the Color Bootcamp to the 
T, but wondered why my color was brassy and my hair had zero swing. 

So the next day I went to Sally's and bought the small bottle of PC (apparently it's awesome because the bigger bottle was out of stock).

I clarified, then did a Sebastian Cellophane/Laminates in Clear, rinsed and shampooed with Aveda Damage Remedy shampoo, DC'd with the DR Treatment, followed by the PC. 

GREAT results! My orange hue is gone, revealing the honey blonde I intended to get. My ends are smoother and the flyaways are gone. Plus my jaw-length hair got that swing, so I'm definitely pleased! 

I'm incorporating it from now on. 

Thank you SO much y'all!


----------



## ellebelle88 (Mar 2, 2009)

pink gator said:


> BIG thanks to the OP!
> 
> I'm so happy I stumbled upon this thread!
> 
> ...



Wow! Good job. Quick question tho: where did you get the Sebastian Cellophane from? I have been looking for it forever, but I heard it had been discontinued.


----------



## RODI (Mar 2, 2009)

Great info Newflowers & AtlantaJJ,

I have 2 questions.

1) Just so that I clearly understand. I should _Wash_----_Deep Condition w/ heat_---_PC_(so that my cuticles lie flat so that my DC efforts do not evaporate "in thin air"---_apply leave ins_----_seal_ the moisture in _with oil_. *Am I on the right track here????*
2) I have read that rinsing my hair with cool/cold water in my final step helps my cuticles to lay flat or close the.  *Something to that effect Is this a cheaper version of PC??? It is the same thing??*


----------



## pink gator (Mar 2, 2009)

ljbee said:


> Wow! Good job. Quick question tho: where did you get the Sebastian Cellophane from? I have been looking for it forever, but I heard it had been discontinued.


 
I actually bought it from a local BSS for $30. 

Online, I found it here:

http://www.beautyofnewyork.com/shopping/product_view.php?itemCode=CEQ9270808KL1041&base


----------



## Miamori (Mar 2, 2009)

I've been having issues with tangling, breakage and splits since October, when I got my hair dyed. 

I troubleshooted for months, including ACV rinses, and buying low pH Joico products. It always felt better after the ACV for a time (hours or days), but would always go back to being unruly.

Last week somewhting dawned on me (really, it was an article on Hairology - very good article; hadn't seen this thread yet) and I decided to try Roux Porosity Control. I spent my LAST (expendable) dime ordering it, and LOW AND BEHOLD, my hair is back to normal.

I rinsed with it before shampooing, before my normal condish, massaging and coming it through, and after, combing it through again and letting it sit like a deep conditioner. Miraculously, NO MORE TANGLES... 5 months of tangles gone, like POOF, seriously, and my hair is back to normal. I say 2 broken pieces yesterday, and that's it in the past 7 days. 

I'll do it again maybe next wash and hopefully go back to seeing no broken hairs and splits, which is what I was used to before. I've been dusting now just to get rid of the splits (most formed from my hair sticking together and me pulling it apart) and I am getting a good trim for the rest in a week or two.

It's nice to feel like I'm not constantly creating new splits every time I do something to my hair.

I'm sure multiple ACV rinses (or stronger ones - I dilute mine well) would have worked too, but I didn't have any ACV around and wanted to just buy the conditioner to know it would do the right thing by my pH levels and I wouldn't have to worry about my ratio of ACV to water.

Anyway, the conditioner will def be a keeper for me for when I encounter this problem in the future. I was also skeptical about not having the shampoo, but it turns out I didn't need it.


----------



## RODI (Mar 2, 2009)

Miamori said:


> I've been having issues with tangling, breakage and splits since October, when I got my hair dyed.
> 
> I troubleshooted for months, including ACV rinses, and buying low pH Joico products. It always felt better after the ACV for a time (hours or days), but would always go back to being unruly.
> 
> ...


 

_Ok Ok ok, after work I will stop and get my PC. I was at the BSS on saturday and put it in my cart. After going over my budget I returned it because of the price tag._
_Now I feel foolish for putting back the most important item in my cart._


----------



## RODI (Mar 2, 2009)

LADI said:


> Great info Newflowers & AtlantaJJ,
> 
> I have 2 questions.
> 
> ...


 

Bumping for answers


----------



## ellebelle88 (Mar 4, 2009)

Miamori said:


> I've been having issues with tangling, breakage and splits since October, when I got my hair dyed.
> 
> I troubleshooted for months, including ACV rinses, and buying low pH Joico products. It always felt better after the ACV for a time (hours or days), but would always go back to being unruly.
> 
> ...



Did you buy just the conditioner or the whole set (shampoo, conditioner, and treatment)?


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Mar 4, 2009)

LADI said:


> Great info Newflowers & AtlantaJJ,
> 
> I have 2 questions.
> 
> ...


I am a little renegade here but I follow the Joico 17 minute miracle method and I use the PC equivalent Cuticle sealer after my shampoo, then I do my protein and moisture DC, etc.  I have also done one final PC like rinse before my cream rinse.  I have read that closing the cuticles before your DC does not stop your hair from reaping benefits of your DC, it helps lock the conditioner in regardless because your cuticles are never completely shut. I want to keep my cuticles as flat as possible as often as possible. That's just my therory, and it's working like a champ for me....

Someone please remind me, what's a tangle? :scratchch


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Mar 4, 2009)

Miamori said:


> I've been having issues with tangling, breakage and splits since October, when I got my hair dyed.
> 
> I troubleshooted for months, including ACV rinses, and buying* low pH Joico *products. It always felt better after the ACV for a time (hours or days), but would always go back to being unruly.
> 
> ...


I agree with your method, the Joico cuticle sealer will work as well as the PC. I also put the Low pH product on my hair and smooth it down my hair in the direction that the cuticles should lay, then I twist that section up (I'm natural) then I continue to the next section until I cover my entire head.  Then I let it sit for a bit. Then I DC or do my cream rinse, and I have smooth, shinny, tangle free, knot free hair!! :superbanana:

I'm going to do this after my next Cellophane, perhaps it will help lock the color in....


----------



## mahogany_horizons (Mar 4, 2009)

Wow, this is a useful thread.  I have issues with dryness, oh around week 6 or 7 after my relaxer, and I always wondered if using roux porisity control may fix the problem.  How would one know if their hair products had a high ph or not?  For example, the silk elements line which I am a disciple of


----------



## pureebony (Mar 4, 2009)

This is very interesting, ok I have a few questions of my own this is going to be my regime, could anyone critique it for me please?

- co wash 3 times a week
- apply MTG and mega tek hair growth mix on scalp everyday
- moisturize every day and seal with hawaiin silky 14 in 1, 6 oil and Vaseline
- pre poo over night before mild shampoo wash on the weekend, then APhogee re constructor treatment, then deep condition with heat, moisturize then seal

Now where would i use the pc in my routine? And what are the pc that I can buy?

Thanks so much.


----------



## pureebony (Mar 4, 2009)

bumping...


----------



## jerseyjill (Mar 4, 2009)

OMG, OMG, I did a hard protein tx, followed by a DC, followed by Porosity control ( I bought the little 1.7 oz bottle for $2) and can you say silky?!! I'm going back for the full bottle.
My hair air dried overnight with only Hawaiin Silky 14 in 1 and it as if i ran a flat iron over my hair. 
I am so souped - I am going to get a trim and wear my hair out for a change. I have been wigging it since December. I ijust touched up last week after 4 months. 
I am converted !!!


----------



## newflowers (Mar 4, 2009)

LADI said:


> Great info Newflowers & AtlantaJJ,
> 
> I have 2 questions.
> 
> ...


 
I sometimes, usually in the summer, rinse with cold water; however, I have hard water in my city and the PC has a lower pH. I don't rely on cold water rinses and get excellent results with PC.


----------



## newflowers (Mar 4, 2009)

AtlantaJJ said:


> I am a little renegade here but I follow the Joico 17 minute miracle method and I use the PC equivalent Cuticle sealer after my shampoo, then I do my protein and moisture DC, etc. I have also done one final PC like rinse before my cream rinse. I have read that closing the cuticles before your DC does not stop your hair from reaping benefits of your DC, it helps lock the conditioner in regardless because your cuticles are never completely shut. I want to keep my cuticles as flat as possible as often as possible. That's just my therory, and it's working like a champ for me....
> 
> Someone please remind me, what's a tangle? :scratchch


 
Tangles - I read about those. 

AtlantaJJ - Spill the beans about this 17 minute method.


----------



## newflowers (Mar 4, 2009)

pureebony said:


> This is very interesting, ok I have a few questions of my own this is going to be my regime, could anyone critique it for me please?
> 
> - co wash 3 times a week
> - apply MTG and mega tek hair growth mix on scalp everyday
> ...


 
If you want to add PC to your regime, you can add it after the cowash. 

I don't use use MTG, megatek, and other protein-based growth aids and am hesitant to make ant recommendation on that. 

When you do the overnight and dc part of your regime,  after the reconstructor, after the deep condition - either would be a great time to add PC. Anytime before the final rinse - let PC be your last step before the final rinse - you'll love it.


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Mar 4, 2009)

newflowers said:


> Tangles - I read about those.
> 
> AtlantaJJ - Spill the beans about this 17 minute method.


Okay so I'm lazy right?... this lady describes the system so well so I will just include her description from her site. I would also like to add that this treatment works great on fine haired naturals like myself.  I do this instead of the hard protein.

*The major point here is that the Cuticle Sealer is used in this system as the second step, before the protein and moisture DC treatments.*

From: A PJ on a Budget.com


> There’s the Chelating Shampoo, its not to harsh and it really gets the job done. After a lot of silicone products or all my buildup of butters, co-wash conditioners, and Megatek, this gets me back to where I started and helps make my conditioners work like the first time again. I get a little tingle and the bottle says it can go even deeper if I leave it on longer. This is the *First Step *in the process.
> _Next up is the Cuticle Sealer, I think this is probably when things start getting a little miraculous, because this product tightens up you hair cuticle so it lays down smooth and doesn’t look so dull and frizzy. This is especially great for overly porous hair that just cant get moisturized because your strands just let all of your goodness right back out. Since relaxed hair usually needs something acidic to seal the cuticle this is definitely a must get. It was a little harder to find than the other elements in the kit by itself but I found a good deal on the internet. *Step Two *down._
> 
> Okay now here is the part you’ve probably heard about, the K-Pak Deep Constructor. For relaxed and color-treated hair the deep reconstructor is a no-brainer. It restores strength to weekend bonds which allows hair to get to longer and stronger lengths. On natural heads like myself we get that too, plus the curl definition this gives me is like no other. Can we say curls poppin like popcorn! Its not too harsh, and it really gets the job done. The added bonus is it will make using heat on your hair a little less dangerous. *Step 3* down, now for moisture.
> ...



I agree with her, I do the Cuticle Sealer the protein and the moisture DC's longer than the bottle recommends. I leave the CS on for about 10 minutes, the protein 15 and the moisture DC until I get tired....

The funny thing about her post is that I use the TJ NS at the end too.  I call that my cream rinse step!


----------



## newflowers (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks. I am a phyto girl from way back and can't imagine giving up my crme bath routine, but this looks like a nice change of pace from time to time.


----------



## melodies815 (Mar 4, 2009)

msa said:


> Not to dispute your experience but shedding happens regardless of products. It's a natural part of a strand's life cycle so at some point hair is going to shed. Saying that it never did is inaccurate. Maybe you only had a bit that you didn't notice, but it was definitely there.
> 
> Also, hair is always growing, unless you're dead. But protective styling, less heat, and covering your hair definitely aid in retention, and that's how we accumulate length.
> 
> I hope I'm not being annoying.



No...you are not being annoying at all!!!  Thanks for the comment.  I think what I was trying to convey in an exaggerated manner is that, even with normal shedding, I cannot recall hair in the tub, in the sink, on the floor AT ALL while using PC.  I am sure it happened, but my hair was so healthy then.  I would change up on stylists and I never needed a trim - even when I checked my own self...which was rare.  The first time in my life that I recall breaking and shedding is here in Britain in the year and a half prior to finding LHCF.  It's been miserable.  I miss my soft water....

In the US, my hair just remained a healthy, happy, full, no-broken-off just barely neck length.    Now, because if healthy hair practices, it IS retaining some length...but it breaks and sheds nearly as quickly.  YUCK!!

I already know when I get back to the US in June, with everything I have learned here, I will be able to grow it longer, especially considering I have gain a tiny bit of length even with all the setbacks and challenges.

I cannot WAIT to get my PC!!

cj

T


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## melodies815 (Mar 4, 2009)

deusa80 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I tried this today, clarified then used the PC, followed by the conditioners and my hair didn't feel rough like it did the first time. It still needs a lot of work though...
> 
> Just so I understand correctly, the PC doesn't *seal the cuticle, it just allows the cuticle to lay flat and be smooth*, is that correct?
> 
> I know I will have to do this for a while and try some different methods to see which works best for my hair, but I think I'm on the right track.




I'm still new enough to think sealing and making the cuticle lie flat are the same thing.  Can any veterans help me understand the difference between what PC does and "sealing" the cuticle means?

Thanks so much, and thanks for this question, *DEUSA80*!


cj


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## pureebony (Mar 5, 2009)

newflowers said:


> If you want to add PC to your regime, you can add it after the cowash.
> 
> I don't use use MTG, megatek, and other protein-based growth aids and am hesitant to make ant recommendation on that.
> 
> When you do the overnight and dc part of your regime,  after the reconstructor, after the deep condition - either would be a great time to add PC. Anytime before the final rinse - let PC be your last step before the final rinse - you'll love it.



So does that mean I can do as many times as i like? Like after every wash i.e. co or shampoo?


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## RODI (Mar 5, 2009)

Hi All,

What about Stabilizer Plus. PH 2.5. How and when do we incorporate this in our PC regimen.


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## pureebony (Mar 5, 2009)

Could anyone please list the pc products that are good?

Thanks.


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## melodies815 (Mar 5, 2009)

pureebony said:


> Could anyone please list the pc products that are good?
> 
> Thanks.




This thread started out talking about Roux Porosity Control.  As far as I know, that's the original product and it's exceptionally good.  I personally do not know of others whose entire remit is to control porosity.  You can get it at Sally's Beauty Supply.

Hope this Helps....

cj


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## Mo96 (Mar 5, 2009)

I just wanted to add that this was such a helpful thread. I really do think that RC is what's missing from my regimen! Thanks, ladies!!!


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## jeabai (Mar 5, 2009)

AtlantaJJ said:


> This is worth understanding because if you get this down you will have smooth, shinny, moisturized non-tangling hair no matter if you are a 1a hair type or a 4z. This is important. I'm following the Joicio model and doing my PC right after shampooing and again at final rinse after DCing in some cases. I also make sure to buy products that are pH balanced for hair.


 

How often do you do this?


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## pureebony (Mar 5, 2009)

melodies815 said:


> This thread started out talking about Roux Porosity Control.  As far as I know, that's the original product and it's exceptionally good.  I personally do not know of others whose entire remit is to control porosity.  You can get it at Sally's Beauty Supply.
> 
> Hope this Helps....
> 
> cj



Thanks hon, only want to know if there are any other good ones out there that do the whole pc thing.


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## deusa80 (Mar 5, 2009)

melodies815 said:


> I'm still new enough to think sealing and making the cuticle lie flat are the same thing. *Can any veterans help me understand the difference between what PC does and "sealing" the cuticle means?*
> 
> Thanks so much, and thanks for this question, *DEUSA80*!
> 
> ...


 

That's a good question! I'm still trying to get this down... 
I just checked out sallys.com description and this is what it says about PC. I assume closing and sealing the cuticle are the same thing :


Leaves hair natural looking, vibrant, manageable
Moisturizes, detangles, lusterizes
Helps create more uniform color, perm and relaxer results
Makes hair feel smooth and closes the cuticle
Obtain even coloring results and maintain healthy hair. Your hair will look naturally vibrant and tangle-free. Great to use before and after chemical treatments and will close the cuticle and ensure healthier, shinier hair.


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## AtlantaJJ (Mar 5, 2009)

jbailey said:


> How often do you do this?


Only after I shampoo, which is usually once every 3 - 4 weeks.  I do tea rinses on my co-wash days, which is another way of lowering your hair's pH Tea is acidic.


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## ACEA (Mar 7, 2009)

I really appreciate it this post.  I've been told my hair is "porous" by stylists, but never really knew what was meant by it.  This thread defined the term for me.  Now, I plan on taking steps towards preserving my hair's porosity.


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## newflowers (Mar 7, 2009)

The difference between closing and sealing - remember the pics on the first page? Closing is using an acidifying product to make the cuticles lie flat; sealing is using an oil based product to prevent/slow evaporation of the moisture in the hair shaft.


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## Fhrizzball (Mar 7, 2009)

Can you use this with a protein treatment? I'm only asking this because when my braids comes out I'll like to try this. I figured I would 'poo, do my protein treatment, do the PC, and then do a moisture dc. Would that work?


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## newflowers (Mar 7, 2009)

It should work very well.


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## MysteryMe (Mar 8, 2009)

I tried Roux Porosity Control poo and conditioner this week and I was very satisfied with the products.


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## newflowers (Mar 8, 2009)

MysteryMe said:


> I tried Roux Porosity Control poo and conditioner this week and I was very satisfied with the products.


 
Yea! I'm glad you are pleased.


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## rainbowknots (Mar 8, 2009)

ok, I was supposed to try the ACV rinse yesterday but I was too lazy to go to the grocery store. Soooo, I'm definitely going to do is this weekend, but my only problem is I'm trying Hairveda Methi Sativa this weekend also (I heard it's not a good idea to do more than 1 experiment in 1 wash). I guess my question is, does anyone know if using an ACV rinse after a protein treatment will have any adverse effects. Stupid question I know...sorry. Or should I just wait until my next wash to attempt the ACV rinse? I definitely can't hold off on the protein because I'm getting relaxed in 2 weeks.


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## Jaxhair (Mar 11, 2009)

Subscribing. Fab thread! Thanks to OP for this - I've learnt LOADS!!!


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## tgrowe (Mar 17, 2009)

I definitely love the Roux porosity control. It has made a difference in my hair. At first I was applying it AFTER my DC and my hair felt like, "UGH!!" I started to put it in my graveyard.Then Sqzbly1908 suggested I apply it before my DC and it made all the world of a difference. I wonder how my dd's hair would respond to it? Hmm....


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## AtlantaJJ (Mar 17, 2009)

tgrowe said:


> I definitely love the Roux porosity control. It has made a difference in my hair. At first I was applying it AFTER my DC and my hair felt like, "UGH!!" I started to put it in my graveyard.Then Sqzbly1908 suggested I apply it before my DC and it made all the world of a difference. I wonder how my dd's hair would respond to it? Hmm....


This is the same method as Joico's 17 Minute Miracle, you do the PC step right before the DC treatments  That's the method I will follow when I use it from now on.


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## Nkiru (Mar 17, 2009)

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to thanks for this post. It has made all the difference in my hair. This was the step I was missing and I had no clue about porosity. Thanks again...


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## newflowers (Mar 17, 2009)

Someone asked about the difference between closing and sealing - words that can be synonyms. Closing the cuticle happens when you lower the pH of the hair strands which results is smoother, shinier hair that can hold on to the goodies you supply because those goodies are "locked" inside the strand. Sealing is using an oil based product to prevent evaporation of moisture, lubricate the strands, and is essentially a measure of protect against the elements.

ETA - You have no idea how happy I am that this thread has been able to help so many of you, especially after all of the help I've recevied over the last few years.


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## Vonnieluvs08 (Mar 18, 2009)

I love this thread!!

It has helped me immensely in the last 2 weeks.  I started doing ACV rinses every other wash day and that was okay.  I've since learned you are supposed to leave the ACV in (I was rinsing it out).

I started using the Porosity Control and I find it to be fabulous!!!  I'm going to start using it before my DC.

How often should you use ACV or PC? Is using it 1x a week too much?
I put my hair in braids (my own hair no xtra) should I still use ACV or PC?
 TIA
Keep the info coming ladies...


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## MuslimahTresses (Mar 18, 2009)

I have the poo and conditoner but I dont know when to use the shampoo. Am I supose to use it in place of my normal shampoo or just use it whan I relax?


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## Ivy Santolina (Mar 18, 2009)

I just recently implemented ACV rinses (3 weeks) as my final rinse and my hair loves it.  The effect has been cumulative.  Because it's so cold I only wash, DC then ACV rinse once a week.  The first time my hair was less frizzy.   The second time a little frizzy.  And this last time, no frizz at all.  Also, this last week, my hair responded the best to my moisturizing DC then ever before.  I'm going to continue to ACV rinse after each time I clean my hair.

I have a porosity control conditioner but I only use it when I texlax my hair.  I'm always impressed about the good ideas I see on this forum.  Thanks AtlantaJJ.  It never occurred to me to use a PC before a DC.  I'm going to try it next Sunday.


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## pureebony (Mar 18, 2009)

Ok ladies used the roux p control after my deep condition and my hair was.... not like i expected it to be, should i apply itin my hair and then rinse then apply my d conditioner?


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## robot. (Mar 18, 2009)

pureebony said:


> Ok ladies used the roux p control after my deep condition and my hair was.... not like i expected it to be, should i apply itin my hair and then rinse then apply my d conditioner?




i think you do it before the DC.


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## newflowers (Mar 18, 2009)

ROBOTxcore said:


> i think you do it before the DC.


 
apply, give it a minute, rinse, and then dc.


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## Vonnieluvs08 (Mar 19, 2009)

Vonnieluvs08 said:


> How often should you use ACV or PC? Is using it 1x a week too much?
> I put my hair in braids (my own hair no xtra) should I still use ACV or PC?
> TIA
> Keep the info coming ladies...


 
bumping for answers


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## newflowers (Mar 20, 2009)

I use PC once a week with excwllent results.


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## Xavier (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm relaxing this weekend. I have some Roux porosity control. What step of the relaxing process should I be using this conditioner.  Before neutralizing? After neutralizing but before deep conditioning? HELP PLEASE...


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## CHECKMATE! (Mar 20, 2009)

^^I say after the neutralizing shampoo  this is how i use mine in order: realxer,rince,Aphogee 2min reconstr.,rinse,neutralizing shampoo,rinse,PC shampoo,rinse,CON shampoo,rinse,then DC


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## Prose Princess (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm so glad I finally looked in this thread because I've been having the problems you speak of--my hair will be so soft and moisturized as soon as I take off my rollers, but within about 6 hours or so it's dry as a bone.  I already have the PC conditioner, but I was wondering if it is necessary to use shampoo with PC to reap the benefits? My hair hates shampoo.


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## newflowers (Mar 29, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> I'm so glad I finally looked in this thread because I've been having the problems you speak of--my hair will be so soft and moisturized as soon as I take off my rollers, but within about 6 hours or so it's dry as a bone. I already have the PC conditioner, but I was wondering if it is necessary to use shampoo with PC to reap the benefits? My hair hates shampoo.


 
While I imagine that using both the shampoo and conditioner would be beneficial, but I've only used the conditioner to great benefit. So my answer is no, you don't need to use both.


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## tgrowe (Apr 4, 2009)

Hey guys, wanted to add that I applied to Roux porosity control conditioner (just enough to dampen but not over-wet my hair) to my hair before applying my SE Mild Lye Relaxer mixed with oil and my results were fantastic.


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## deusa80 (Apr 6, 2009)

tgrowe said:


> Hey guys, wanted to add that I applied to Roux porosity control conditioner (just enough to dampen but not over-wet my hair) to my hair before applying my SE Mild Lye Relaxer mixed with oil and my results were fantastic.


 

Interesting! I hope this doesn't sound like a silly question but did you apply it to your hair _including_ your NG or just the rest of your hair?


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## achangedlife (Apr 6, 2009)

I swear by porosity control shampoo and conditioners. I alternate them with the alpha 5 in 1 corrective shampoo and mendex. My hair is silky, strong and shiny. Best of all I don't even have to moisturize on a regular basis.


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## sqzbly1908 (Apr 6, 2009)

I used my PC after neutralizing and right before my color showers - I will NEVER leave this step out...This has really made the color adhere - not that I had any issues with colorshowers but I can really tell the difference


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## newflowers (Apr 6, 2009)

I don't know if you saw it, but recently there was another porosity thread in which Gymfreak responded that in addition to the cuticle lying flat, the dc after helps to fill the gaps and stregthen the hair. I love the scientist on this board - women who know. 

Anyway - I looked and can't find it, but if you have a chance, check it out - she has the complete explanation.


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## Odd One (Apr 6, 2009)

*ATTENTION!!!*

Crazy experimental question coming in....

Since i cannot find the Roux PC and i always forget to mix my acv before washing and stuff... could i just drop some ACV in a cheapie conditioner and use this as my cuticule sealer??


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## newflowers (Apr 6, 2009)

That's a good question, but I have no answer for you. Is there no Sally's or other beauty supply near you?


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## Odd One (Apr 6, 2009)

newflowers said:


> That's a good question, but I have no answer for you. Is there no Sally's or other beauty supply near you?



I dont have Sally's here and the bss are limited. i always have to run all over my city to keep up with you guys


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## Aggie (Apr 7, 2009)

Kitten45 said:


> *ATTENTION!!!*
> 
> Crazy experimental question coming in....
> 
> Since i cannot find the Roux PC and i always forget to mix my acv before washing and stuff... could i just drop some ACV in a cheapie conditioner and use this as my cuticule sealer??


 
You know, I have never even thought of this and don't know if it will work but since we have tried so many unconventional things on this board that worked, maybe you should give it a try and see what happens and then let us know your results, okay?


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## Odd One (Apr 7, 2009)

Aggie said:


> You know, I have never even thought of this and don't know if it will work but since we have tried so many unconventional things on this board that worked, *maybe you should give it a try and see what happens and then let us know your results, okay?*



Sounds like your saying ''jump in the water, let us know how it is, then we MIGHT jump in''

So i'm looking at my full bottle of aussi moist conditioner and my bottle of ACV and i have no idea on what to do with the ratios and all


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## Jhuidah (Apr 13, 2009)

Kitten45 said:


> *ATTENTION!!!*
> 
> Crazy experimental question coming in....
> 
> Since i cannot find the Roux PC and i always forget to mix my acv before washing and stuff... could i just drop some ACV in a cheapie conditioner and use this as my cuticule sealer??



This is an interesting question...this makes me think of the Caramel recipe listed on this site that includes ACV as one of the primary ingredients. I remember thinking that it was a LOT of ACV, but then when I tried the Caramel in my hair my ends felt amaaaazing. So there might be something to adding ACV to conditioner.


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## ladytee2 (Apr 13, 2009)

Jhuidah said:


> This is an interesting question...this makes me think of the Caramel recipe listed on this site that includes ACV as one of the primary ingredients. I remember thinking that it was a LOT of ACV, but then when I tried the Caramel in my hair my ends felt amaaaazing. So there might be something to adding ACV to conditioner.


 
Excellent point.  I would start off with maybe  1tsp to a 1/2 cup or so and work from there.


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## Sweet Charm (Apr 21, 2009)

I read that you can do the ACV rinse before or after the conditioning, But i dont want to seal out my conditioners effects so can I do a ACV rinse before and after condtioning? Or just one or the other?

Is that a dumb question?


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## newflowers (Apr 21, 2009)

I think you'll find the acv rinse before the conditioner makes the conditioner works better -give it a try.


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## IDareT'sHair (Apr 21, 2009)

I have been using Newflowers method, and applying the PC as a final rinse after my DC and before I apply my Leave-In.  I have been doing this on a weekly basis as part of my DC process.  I was wondering if the French Perm Stablizer can also be used the same way, since it has a 2.5 PH Balance?  Does anyone know?  Thanks..........


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## newflowers (Apr 25, 2009)

I've never heard of that product - can you post a pic or more info?


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## loveable37 (May 8, 2009)

never used any 
never thought to buy any
never thought to use any


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## newflowers (May 8, 2009)

IDareT'sHair said:


> I have been using Newflowers method, and applying the PC as a final rinse after my DC and before I apply my Leave-In. I have been doing this on a weekly basis as part of my DC process. I was wondering if the French Perm Stablizer can also be used the same way, since it has a 2.5 PH Balance? Does anyone know? Thanks..........


 

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=224541

here's a thread by people who use this product - maybe you can find answers here.


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## tiffers (May 8, 2009)

This is a great thread!

I always use PC as a final rinse and lurve the end results. I'll have to try it before a dc! Ya'll are makin me wanna wash my hair and I just washed it last night!


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## blackpearl81 (May 9, 2009)

hmmmm, this is what I'm missing...


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## IDareT'sHair (May 9, 2009)

blackpearl81 said:


> hmmmm, this is what I'm missing...


 
You are missing some 'invaluable' information.  As you can see 78 people thanked Newflowers for this Post.  It totally took my Entire Hair Care Regimen to the Next Level by incorporating this product into my routine.  I think it is worth going through and reading.  You'll learn alot.  I did.


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## Lucky's Mom (May 9, 2009)

Help!!!

So - Do I acv - then DC???
Or do I ACV at the final rinse?????????????????

This is confusing.
TIA


----------



## NaniDiamond (May 10, 2009)

I had used Porosity for years and then forgot about it...as I've been using mega tek, I've noticed a rough/dry feeling to my hair and I bought PC and wallah!...matter solved...even got a coupon from Sally's for 15% off, so I'm about to go and the big bottle right now.

my daughter is all natural and I've mixed it with her DC ...  I'm back on my PC kick!!!


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## newflowers (May 10, 2009)

Lucky's Mom said:


> Help!!!
> 
> So - Do I acv - then DC???
> Or do I ACV at the final rinse?????????????????
> ...


 
You can do either. The advantage of doing it before the dc is to lay flat those cuticles and then the condition fills in the gaps and coats the hair. If you do it the other way, you lay the cuticles flat after the dc. Both work well in my experience, though I only use acv rinse after relaxing.


----------



## beans4reezy (May 10, 2009)

I used it for the first time yesterday. I let it sit for 5 mins after my DC. I noticed that my rollerset came out a lot bouncier.  This is a keeper for me as well


----------



## tgrowe (May 10, 2009)

deusa80 said:


> Interesting! I hope this doesn't sound like a silly question but did you apply it to your hair _including_ your NG or just the rest of your hair?


 First, I am sorry for being so late in checking in. I don't log on like I use to. Second, it is not a silly question. I applied te PC to all of my hair. The purpose I guess it to reduce the "shock" your hair can receive from chemical services such as colors and relaxers and to produce better results from the chemical services. Well that it did. I tried it and loved the results. Will try this again on my next relaxer date.


----------



## deusa80 (May 10, 2009)

tgrowe said:


> First, I am sorry for being so late in checking in. I don't log on like I use to. Second, it is not a silly question. I applied te PC to all of my hair. The purpose I guess it to reduce the "shock" your hair can receive from chemical services such as colors and relaxers and to produce better results from the chemical services. Well that it did. I tried it and loved the results. Will try this again on my next relaxer date.


 

Thanks! I'm hoping to try this with my next relaxer.


----------



## newflowers (May 11, 2009)

I would like to have more explicit directions of how you did this. you used the pc on your hair before you relaxed. how long did you wait afterwards? details, details - tell all.


----------



## Aggie (May 11, 2009)

Lucky's Mom said:


> Help!!!
> 
> So - Do I acv - then DC???
> Or do I ACV at the final rinse?????????????????
> ...


 
ACV with the final rinse is recommended but if you don't like the lingering smell of acv in your hair then I'd recommend a very light conditioner after the rinse to get the smell out.


----------



## blackpearl81 (May 14, 2009)

OMG...I did my first ACV rinse today as the final step after my relaxer, neutralizer, and dc....I love, love, love it!!   My hair is so soft and it got that swang honey!!! I'll definitely be doing the rinse at least once a week..

BTW: I used one tbls of acv to two cups of water and didn't rinse out.


----------



## fe6968 (May 14, 2009)

i'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but does porosity control contain any protein?
______________________


----------



## afiya27 (May 15, 2009)

Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this but...

If I understand this porosity thing correctly, it involves the degree to which your hair absorbs and releases moisture.  This is apparently related to the degree of openness of the cuticles (more open = more absorption/loss).  The degree of cuticle opening depends upon pH (acidic = closed cuticle, basic = opened cuticle) ...

Presuming that that is all correct, would it be useful/logical to do some variation of the following every week?

1) Wash hair (diluted shampoo = to get out built up product)
2) Baking soda wash (high pH/basic = pore/cuticle opening in order to absorb DC)
3) Apply DC (let it seep into the wide open pores/cuticles = deep penetration)
4) ACV rinse (low pH/acidic = pore/cuticle closing/sealing in order to seal in the benefits of the DC)

**Note: I basically am presuming that ACV is acidic.  But a Google search didn't really give a clear answer.  Any insight on that would be appreciated too.

Thanks.


----------



## Missi (May 15, 2009)

*AHHHHHHHH To many post to read.... I think I'm missing this step. I know when I used Keracare: my hair was more softer & smoother....but since switching to Ayurvedic products: i think I need to add in PC.*


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## Missi (May 15, 2009)

Okay I'm a lil confused: maybe someone can pm me.

PC & ACV are different?

PC - Shampoo, PC, DC, rollerset 
ACV - Relaxer, Reconstructer, Neutralizer, ACV,


----------



## Aggie (May 15, 2009)

Missi said:


> Okay I'm a lil confused: maybe someone can pm me.
> 
> PC & ACV are different?
> 
> ...


 
Yeah it could get a bit confusing., but PC and ACV do the same thing and that is correct the porosity of your hair. If moisture isn't staying in your strands then you'd need to correct the porosity of them. Hope this helps a little.


----------



## Aggie (May 15, 2009)

Missi said:


> *AHHHHHHHH To many post to read.... I think I'm missing this step. I know when I used Keracare: my hair was more softer & smoother....but since switching to Ayurvedic products: i think I need to add in PC.*


 
I find that I had to do the same thing after starting my ayurveda regimen as well. I try to stick to using the ACV rinse more than the PC conditioner because it's a more natural choice.


----------



## boldblackbeauty (May 15, 2009)

do you all think it would be a problem to use these methods in conjunction with an ayurvedic regimen?


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## Aggie (May 16, 2009)

boldblackbeauty said:


> do you all think it would be a problem to use these methods in conjunction with an ayurvedic regimen?


 
I'm giving myself a henna treatment right now and I will be following this up with a quick porosity control conditioner then Dcing. My hair is usally so dry after a henna treatment that I found the PC has been allowing my hair to hold the moisture from the DC much better. So in answer to your question, for me it would be no it would not be a problem.


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## newflowers (May 16, 2009)

There are a number of products that you can use to correct the porosity of your hair, so you should use whichever one you like that works best for you. If you're using all natural products, then acv rinse should work just as well.


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## *Muffin* (May 31, 2009)

I pay attention to porosity.  It wasn't something I always did, though.  Citric Acid and ACV are natural Sequestrants (chelators), which mean they bind metal ions to themselves and rid them from hair.  They also can help restore hair's natural acidity.  So I make sure I do an ACV or Citric acid treatment every week.  I usually alternate between using equal parts ACV or Citric acid with conditioner and clarifying my hair with it and just doing regular ACV or Citric acid rinses.  I noticed my hair feels a lot softer and looks shinier because of it.


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## lovepeacesoul (Jun 1, 2009)

You guys, PC is noooo joke!  After using Sunsilk Hydrating Curls for only 2 weeks, my ends staring breaking off in clumps.  I cried.  After discovering that there was in evil cone in it (it was the second ingredient!!!) I decided to get Roux Porosity Control. I figured it was worth a try and my 4a/b hair is porous.  

Tonight, I did a banking soda treatment followed by the RPC which I left on for about two mins and I'm happy to have my old hair back.


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## tgrowe (Jun 3, 2009)

Hey Newflowers,
The best way I can explain it is if you have ever used/applied a relaxer in the box-kit, some of those kits contain a pre-relaxer cream or treatment that you put on your hair before applying the relaxer. Not the petroleum or whatever goop you would use to base your scalp and outer edges. I use the PC the same way. The directions state to apply the PC, rinse your hair and then do the chemical service such as a relaxer or color. Well I sure in h*ll wouldn't apply the PC, rinse and THEN relax so I thought one day, "What if I just use it on my hair as pre-treatment?"  I applied it to my whole head and then relaxed. Again the first time I did it I hadn't had a bone straight relaxer in 4 months so I just knew my hair wouldn't take the relaxer well. I was wrong and surprised. I know it sounds peculiar but it worked for my poor head. Plus I use it with nearly every wash. Love that stuff. HTH


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## newflowers (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks. I haven't relaxed since March - it's a jungle in there - and I just placed my order with Polly, s I'll be touching up this weekend. I'm going to try it. L'oreal used to have a pretreatment that was great; since it was discontinued, I've not found a replacement. Maybe this will be what I've been looking for.


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## jumpingjax1906 (Jun 4, 2009)

I just started using Roux Porosity Control.  I used it for the first time yesterday, and my hair has never felt or looked better.  It is very soft and silky and has "slip".  I did a rollerset and didn't have "big hair" when I finished.  No fly a ways, just smooth soft curls. i will continue to use to see what the results will be in the long term.


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## tgrowe (Jun 4, 2009)

newflowers said:


> Thanks. I haven't relaxed since March - it's a jungle in there - and I just placed my order with Polly, s I'll be touching up this weekend. I'm going to try it. L'oreal used to have a pretreatment that was great; since it was discontinued, I've not found a replacement. Maybe this will be what I've been looking for.


 If you try it, let us know how is turns out.


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## IDareT'sHair (Jun 4, 2009)

tgrowe said:


> Hey Newflowers,
> The best way I can explain it is if you have ever used/applied a relaxer in the box-kit, some of those kits contain a pre-relaxer cream or treatment that you put on your hair before applying the relaxer. Not the petroleum or whatever goop you would use to base your scalp and outer edges. I use the PC the same way. The directions state to apply the PC, rinse your hair and then do the chemical service such as a relaxer or color. Well I sure in h*ll wouldn't apply the PC, rinse and THEN relax so I thought one day, "What if I just use it on my hair as pre-treatment?" I applied it to my whole head and then relaxed. Again the first time I did it I hadn't had a bone straight relaxer in 4 months so I just knew my hair wouldn't take the relaxer well. I was wrong and surprised. I know it sounds peculiar but it worked for my poor head. Plus I use it with nearly every wash. Love that stuff. HTH


 
Thanks TGrowe !  I am going to try this the Next Time I Self-Relax. Great Tip.


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## SpiritJunkie (Jun 6, 2009)

This is a great post!!!  Thanks so much.  I've been complaining about some dryness although I do everythng I should.  I will include this step and see the results.   I had this product for a while but never really used it.


I'm trying to get past SL with healthy hair come hell or high water!


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## LaidBak (Jun 6, 2009)

tgrowe said:


> Hey Newflowers,
> The best way I can explain it is if you have ever used/applied a relaxer in the box-kit, some of those kits contain a pre-relaxer cream or treatment that you put on your hair before applying the relaxer. Not the petroleum or whatever goop you would use to base your scalp and outer edges. I use the PC the same way. The directions state to apply the PC, rinse your hair and then do the chemical service such as a relaxer or color. Well I sure in h*ll wouldn't apply the PC, rinse and THEN relax so I thought one day, "What if I just use it on my hair as pre-treatment?"  I applied it to my whole head and then relaxed. Again the first time I did it I hadn't had a bone straight relaxer in 4 months so I just knew my hair wouldn't take the relaxer well. I was wrong and surprised. I know it sounds peculiar but it worked for my poor head. Plus I use it with nearly every wash. Love that stuff. HTH




Just to clarify ('cause I might try this), you are applying the PC to your NG as well right?  Are you letting it dry a bit afterward or are you just applying the relaxer straight away?


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## Kimdionneca (Jun 10, 2009)

I went and bought the Roux Porosity yesterday at Sally's. It cost me about $14.00. I went home last night and I tried it. This is what I did.

1. I clarifyed my hair with the hydra thermal nutrients clarifying shampoo
2. I conditioned with the hydra thermal nutrients protien conditioner and sat under the dryer for about 30 min's and then rinsed
3. I sprayed ginger juice and water on my scalp and sat around with a bag on my head for about 25 min's then rinsed- I just like the heat the ginger gives - I read about doing that on another thread.
4 Then I put some of the hydra thermal nutrients mosturizing conditioner on for about 10 min's then rinsed
5. Then I did the Roux Porosity Conditioner

I could tell that while I had it on it definately defined my curls and weighed down my hair but afterward I still got some shedding or breakage I didn't seem like less shedding. 

What did I do wrong?   What would you suggest? I did the porosity test before I bought the product and my hair did sink in the bowl of water. Should I just keep trying this product, how long before it will help. Some girls seem to report immediate results. Help please.


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## newflowers (Jun 10, 2009)

I would suggest you continue to use the product, but please keep in mind that when your hair is porous, it may take a bit to correct the problem. Shedding is a result of the hair cycle - PC will not change that.


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## Kimdionneca (Jun 10, 2009)

newflowers said:


> I would suggest you continue to use the product, but please keep in mind that when your hair is porous, it may take a bit to correct the problem. Shedding is a result of the hair cycle - PC will not change that.


 

Thanks newflowers I will continue it, do you think I should do it again soon? Is tomorrow too soon or should I wait till next week? I will try to be patient but it's hard when you see hair coming out.


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## jrae (Jun 10, 2009)

Aggie said:


> I'm giving myself a henna treatment right now and I will be following this up with a quick porosity control conditioner then Dcing. My hair is so dry after a henna treatment that I found the PC has been allowing my hair to hold the moisture from the DC much better. So in answer to your question, for me it would be no it would not be a problem.



Aggie, do you think it would be better to apply PC before the Henna treatment so the henna will absorb better?  I'm doing Henna this weekend.  Just wondering...


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## Bachelorette (Jun 12, 2009)

jrae said:


> Aggie, do you think it would be better to apply PC before the Henna treatment so the henna will absorb better?  I'm doing Henna this weekend.  Just wondering...



I say

-henna
-moisturizing dc
-PC

cos the PC will make the moisture from the DC last since henna can be quite drying


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## Aggie (Jun 12, 2009)

jrae said:


> Aggie, do you think it would be better to apply PC before the Henna treatment so the henna will absorb better? I'm doing Henna this weekend. Just wondering...


 


Bachelorette said:


> I say
> 
> -henna
> -moisturizing dc
> ...


 
Sorry I was not available to answer this question jrae. I was flying home from Nebraska and got in quite late in the evening and was really too tired to do anything but sleep. I agree with Bachelorette in the method. 

Henna, DC, then PC although if I was going to do this, I would use PC before and after henna. Before because it would help the henna to work better and after because you'll need to restore the moisture balance to your hair. HTH.


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## newflowers (Jun 16, 2009)

Kimdionneca said:


> Thanks newflowers I will continue it, do you think I should do it again soon? Is tomorrow too soon or should I wait till next week? I will try to be patient but it's hard when you see hair coming out.


 
I've used PC twice a week to my hair's benefit. What are you using for your protein and moisturizing deep conditioners? Any styling issues that might contribute to breakage?


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## Kimdionneca (Jun 19, 2009)

newflowers said:


> I've used PC twice a week to my hair's benefit. What are you using for your protein and moisturizing deep conditioners? Any styling issues that might contribute to breakage?


 
Newflowers, I have been using the hydra thermal nutrients. It has a clarifying shampoo and a moisture shampoo and then a protein conditioner and a moisture conditioner that you are suppose to alternate with. I have been using their whole line. Just this past week though I went to by some of those cheepie conditioners that everyone talks about for co-washing. I bought the Ausie Moist and the JASON sea kelp oh and I bought the Conditioner by Paul Mitchell for leave in. 

I used the Sea Kelp and the paul mitchell leave in yesterday for the first time, the jury is still out. I felt like after co-washing I had to really replace all the oils I had just washed out.

I have been wearing my hair in a puff, because I still need a little more length before I can get a decent bun. Cuase right now my bun is like tiny about the size of a nickel. lol But I have been using different gels to define my curls like the twist and lock gel by the roots and the Eco style brown gel. Today I used lilly of the valley 99 % aloe vera gel hoping that since its closer to a natural product, it won't be as drying but my hair still feels dry. It may be though because I did that co-wash last night ( although I don't even know if I did it right) and it just needs a couple of days to let the daily oils and moisture build up. 

Ok hope this wasn't too long but I appreciate any help you can give.


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## senznme (Jun 19, 2009)

I started using PC and loovvveeed it.  My hair felt wonderful afterwards. Recently, I colored my hair. I used PC before the color and after the dc. I used it after using a clarifying shampoo, and my hair loved it. My hair looked and felt great. I am going to be using it weekly after my dc and see how it works out for me.  I believe it will work well, I shall see.  I am so glad that I found this forum.  I am loving learning about my hair. So sad it took so long.  But better late then sorry.


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## cookie1 (Jun 21, 2009)

I've been doing ACV rinses (before I DC) and each time I get better results.  I'm adding more ACV to the dilution each time unitl I find something that works for me.  About 2 days ago I did the rinse (after my k pak trmt) before I used my Joico Moisture Recovery Balm and blow dried my hair.  I moisturized my hair w/ HS 14 n 1  and pulled my hair in a ponytail and the middle of my head (driest) wasn't brittle but moisturized.  I think it's needs a little more tweeking but, I'm almost there and will stick w/ the ACV for a while. Before I thought the cowashing wasn't doing anything for my hair and now I think it was more of a porosity problem.  I'll continue cowashing every 3 days and see what happens with my hair.

Question: *Should I be doing an ACV rinse before a relaxer for better results?  If so, since water on my scalp irritates, shouldn't I do it like 2 days before my relaxer- when I do my protein treatment?*

OP, 
I think this thread is the buzness and if I would've known how important porosity control was a year ago (when I joined forum) I'd saved on alot of products.


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## newflowers (Jun 21, 2009)

Kimdionneca said:


> Newflowers, I have been using the hydra thermal nutrients. It has a clarifying shampoo and a moisture shampoo and then a protein conditioner and a moisture conditioner that you are suppose to alternate with. I have been using their whole line. Just this past week though I went to by some of those cheepie conditioners that everyone talks about for co-washing. I bought the Ausie Moist and the JASON sea kelp oh and I bought the Conditioner by Paul Mitchell for leave in.
> 
> I used the Sea Kelp and the paul mitchell leave in yesterday for the first time, the jury is still out. I felt like after co-washing I had to really replace all the oils I had just washed out.
> 
> ...


 
How was your hair when you were using only the Hydrothermal products? I don't use any of the products your list here, but I have tried the JASON - it didn't do much for my hair, but one of my daughters really loved it, the other found it very drying for her hair; they're both natural. I co-wash with my same phyto conditioners because it's what works for me. And I think that's really important - you have to use what works for you. 

When I first began my hair journey, my hair was a mess - damaged, dry, breaking, dull, rough - you name any bad thing, and I had it going on - my hair was terrible. I left the salon, returned to doing my own hair, finally returned to using phyto products exclusively after a brief stint of pj-ism. It took about a year for me to get over trying everything thing that was discussed on the boards. After that, another sixish months of consistent care, and my hair was much improved; sixish more months, and my hair was pretty perfect (for me). 

I really think using products that work for your hair - with full awareness that what works for others, no matter how wonderful the raves, may not work for you. If hydrathernal naturals is doing what you need, then just use that one - is one of the most important things you can do for your hair. I would beware of clarifying too often - that will dry your hair. If you've got the moisture/protein balance correct, keep doing what you're doing, and the condition of your hair will improve. It's not likely your hair was damaged overnight, so you should not expect your hair to return to tip top shape overnight either. Make sure you check the pH of the hydrathermal naturals products - I'm sure the vendor knows if it's not listed on the bottles. 

With the exception of AOHSR which I use for the scent on date nights (dh loves it), silk peptide powder, porosity control, and camellia oil, I stick with phyto for my daily hair care because I know this line of products works for me. If you know the Hydrathermal works for you, then ditch the cheapie conditoners and give your hair time to get better. A product/method to control the porosity of your hair - be it the roux, joico, or a simple acv - is important because your hair will be stronger and shinier and less likely to break because it holds mositure better when the cuticles are flat.

All of these words to say use products that work for YOU, be consistent, and give it time.


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## newflowers (Jun 21, 2009)

cookie1 said:


> I've been doing ACV rinses (before I DC) and each time I get better results. I'm adding more ACV to the dilution each time unitl I find something that works for me. About 2 days ago I did the rinse (after my k pak trmt) before I used my Joico Moisture Recovery Balm and blow dried my hair. I moisturized my hair w/ HS 14 n 1 and pulled my hair in a ponytail and the middle of my head (driest) wasn't brittle but moisturized. I think it's needs a little more tweeking but, I'm almost there and will stick w/ the ACV for a while. Before I thought the cowashing wasn't doing anything for my hair and now I think it was more of a porosity problem. I'll continue cowashing every 3 days and see what happens with my hair.
> 
> Question: *Should I be doing an ACV rinse before a relaxer for better results? If so, since water on my scalp irritates, shouldn't I do it like 2 days before my relaxer- when I do my protein treatment?*
> 
> ...


 
I do my last porosity control three days before relaxing - the same time as the last big protein treatment, but you have to be careful. If your scalp is sensitive, you could burn, so use caution and base well. 

The last time I relaxed, I used someone's recommendation to apply the pc to the hair strands before relaxing - man oh man was I nervous. I based, sectioned, and applied the pc which I let dry before I relaxed, and the results were stellar, so I really think lowering the pH, closing the cuticle makes a positive difference in the relaxer process.


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## IDareT'sHair (Jun 21, 2009)

newflowers;8086099The last time I relaxed said:
			
		

> I am going to try this.


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## newflowers (Jun 21, 2009)

^^^ you are going to love it i think. be careful your hair is dry first. i had one little spot that wasn't dry, and i haven't gotten any breakage in the spot nor did i burn, but the area felt a little sensitive after i was finished. 

porosity control is like the cherry on top - you can have a sundae without it, but the little refinement makes just the right difference.


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## Bachelorette (Jun 23, 2009)

is this the entire head or just the new growth?


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## Kimdionneca (Jun 30, 2009)

newflowers said:


> How was your hair when you were using only the Hydrothermal products? I don't use any of the products your list here, but I have tried the JASON - it didn't do much for my hair, but one of my daughters really loved it, the other found it very drying for her hair; they're both natural. I co-wash with my same phyto conditioners because it's what works for me. And I think that's really important - you have to use what works for you.
> 
> When I first began my hair journey, my hair was a mess - damaged, dry, breaking, dull, rough - you name any bad thing, and I had it going on - my hair was terrible. I left the salon, returned to doing my own hair, finally returned to using phyto products exclusively after a brief stint of pj-ism. It took about a year for me to get over trying everything thing that was discussed on the boards. After that, another sixish months of consistent care, and my hair was much improved; sixish more months, and my hair was pretty perfect (for me).
> 
> ...


 
Hi Newflowers,
I appreciate your feedback, sorry I went on vacation and just got around to posting today. My hair with the hydra thermal naturals is ok. It's hard to tell though cause when I started using it I was still blow drying and flat ironing it alot. Terrible I know, but I am sure I used the flat Iron and curling Iron every day. I have really only recently started to take care of my hair, since April. Although I haven't actually had a perm in probably 8 months to a year. 

I will definitely take your advice though and try to find something that works and sticking to it. I just have to find it without becoming a pj...although I think I might be too late. I have used the roux three times or so now and will continue to use it. I will let you know how it goes and thanks again for giving me some of your knowlege.


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## newflowers (Jun 30, 2009)

Bachelorette said:


> is this the entire head or just the new growth?


 
I did the entire hair - not the scalp, just the hair.  I was so scared - I figured it was going to work wonders or I'd be completely bald - fortunately, it worked well.


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## newflowers (Jun 30, 2009)

Kimdionneca said:


> Hi Newflowers,
> I appreciate your feedback, sorry I went on vacation and just got around to posting today. My hair with the hydra thermal naturals is ok. It's hard to tell though cause when I started using it I was still blow drying and flat ironing it alot. Terrible I know, but I am sure I used the flat Iron and curling Iron every day. I have really only recently started to take care of my hair, since April. Although I haven't actually had a perm in probably 8 months to a year.
> 
> I will definitely take your advice though and try to find something that works and sticking to it. I just have to find it without becoming a pj...although I think I might be too late. I have used the roux three times or so now and will continue to use it. I will let you know how it goes and thanks again for giving me some of your knowlege.


 
No worries. 

While I am most assuredly a phyto girl, I am also a big fan of trying new conditioners - fortunately, my daughters will take all of the ones I don't like. I think you'll have to try various brands and products until you find what you like, but you have to give the product a bit of time to see if it's going to work. If it works, keep it; if not, to the teenagers bathroom it goes. 

When I first started using phyto, at first, I thought I didn't like it because I didn't get that immediate slick/slipperiness like other products. But I'd spent so much money on it, I had to keep using it for a few weeks until I could get something else. After a couple of weeks, I was shopping with a friend, and she asked what I'd done to my hair - other than wash, conditon, and set, the answer was nothing. She pulled out a mirror; I was shocked: my hair was more than shiney; it was glistening in the sunlight. It was amazing. Since then, it's been phyto for me. If I'd gone with my initial impression instead giving the product a minute to do its thing, I'd have tossed it without learning the great improvement and benefits to my hair. 

I still love trying new products, but when you're first starting out and trying to build a regime, give the products a couple of weeks before you move on to something new.


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## Kimdionneca (Jul 9, 2009)

newflowers said:


> No worries.
> 
> I still love trying new products, but when you're first starting out and trying to build a regime, give the products a couple of weeks before you move on to something new.


 
Thanks again, for the help and thanks for turning me onto the Roux. I will let you know how it's going after I have used it for a while.


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## FluffyRed (Aug 20, 2009)

Susscribing!2


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## BronxMyth (Aug 21, 2009)

I tried PC once and it felt great, nice and smooth. The next time I tried it, it left my hair so tangled. This was after DC'ing, both times. What's up with that?


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## WantNatural (Aug 23, 2009)

BronxMyth said:


> I tried PC once and it felt great, nice and smooth. The next time I tried it, it left my hair so tangled. This was after DC'ing, both times. What's up with that?



Maybe try using the PC before you DC. Many women in this thread found that this order worked really well for them.

I'm so glad I found this thread again.  I first saw it a couple of months ago and for some reason only read the first few posts.  I've just read the entire thread and I'm so inspired!  I know that PC will be at least one of the answers to my dryness, increased breakage, dull hair, and the fact that none of my conditioners seem to really be working for me anymore.  No slip, all tangles, tons of hair lost.  My only dilemma is whether to use the ACV rinse or the Roux PC.  I tried the ACV last week to clarify and my hair was a hard, tangled mess. I only diluted it 50/50
Which I am sure was the problem.  I might start off with the PC first and maybe alternate with the ACV until I find the ratio that works best for me.  I believe Sistalock's article stated trying 1/4 cup ACV to 2 cups water. Someone else used 1 tbl to 2 cups water, so I'm going to have to experiment to see what works for me.  I'm going to try it today to see how it works.


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## Vonnieluvs08 (Aug 28, 2009)

WantNatural said:


> Maybe try using the PC before you DC. Many women in this thread found that this order worked really well for them.
> 
> I'm so glad I found this thread again. I first saw it a couple of months ago and for some reason only read the first few posts. I've just read the entire thread and I'm so inspired! I know that PC will be at least one of the answers to my dryness, increased breakage, dull hair, and the fact that none of my conditioners seem to really be working for me anymore. No slip, all tangles, tons of hair lost. My only dilemma is whether to use the ACV rinse or the Roux PC. I tried the ACV last week to clarify and my hair was a hard, tangled mess. *I only diluted it 50/50*
> Which I am sure was the problem. I might start off with the PC first and maybe alternate with the ACV until I find the ratio that works best for me. I believe Sistalock's article stated trying *1/4 cup ACV to 2 cups water. Someone else used 1 tbl to 2 cups water*, so I'm going to have to experiment to see what works for me. I'm going to try it today to see how it works.


 
I found that starting out with a really weak mixture in an application bottle is a good way to judge how you hair responds.  This way you aren't wasting much product if you don't like the proportions.  Then you can add more ACV or water and have an accurate amount for your hair.  Plus I like to apply to scalp first then apply or smoosh thru the length of my hair.

I don't let my ACV mixes sit longer than a week unless I put them in the fridge.  Also if you are using this a final rinse make sure you use a really go leave-in to help with moisture retention.  HTH. HHG!


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## divinerae (Aug 29, 2009)

I was really impressed with how soft my hair felt after using Roux Mendex so I decided to order the PC and the shampoo from sally's today.  I will probably be doing a lot more flat ironing or rollersets in the fall/winter so I think this is a good addition to my regimen.


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## WantNatural (Aug 29, 2009)

Vonnieluvs08 said:


> I found that starting out with a really weak mixture in an application bottle is a good way to judge how you hair responds.  This way you aren't wasting much product if you don't like the proportions.  Then you can add more ACV or water and have an accurate amount for your hair.  Plus I like to apply to scalp first then apply or smoosh thru the length of my hair.
> 
> I don't let my ACV mixes sit longer than a week unless I put them in the fridge.  Also if you are using this a final rinse make sure you use a really go leave-in to help with moisture retention.  HTH. HHG!





That is great advice, thank you!


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## CleverGypsy (Aug 29, 2009)

divinerae said:


> I was really impressed with how soft my hair felt after using Roux Mendex so I decided to order the PC and the shampoo from sally's today. I will probably be doing a lot more flat ironing or rollersets in the fall/winter so I think this is a good addition to my regimen.


 I already use Roux PC regularly (amazing stuff) and I just picked up the shampoo and Mendex from sallys. My hair needs a little protein. divinerae- how did you use Mendex?


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## mstar (Aug 31, 2009)

This was one of the very first threads I read when I joined LHCF, and I've been tying to balance my porosity for the past five months. Porosity Control just didn't work for me, and the ACV rinses left my hair feeling rough and straw-like. 

Just last week, I hit upon my perfect ACV mix...it turns out that I had been using too much vinegar. The first time I tried my perfect mix, the tangles melted out of my hair as I poured the rinse over it. After my hair dried, it was smooth, soft, and silky, with loads of shine. And over the next few days, it remained soft and touchable. The dry, crispy hair is finally gone!

My mix is 3/4 teaspoon ACV in 2 cups of distilled water. I think I can finally start retaining length now that my hair isn't so dry.


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## BlackMasterPiece (Aug 31, 2009)

This was incredibly informative thanks newflowers!! I definitely think this is the missing step in my regimen and could be just the thing to turn my chronic dryness around!!

I shall be buying Porosity control when I come back home for labor day weekend


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## Msmia (Sep 1, 2009)

I have been doing clear rinses and using my Roux Porosity Control and I have notice a great difference in my hair


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## temfash (Sep 8, 2009)

I used porosity control for the first time this week, my hair has never felt so moisturised but it takes so much longer to dry.


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## Lovestyr (Sep 8, 2009)

Im taKING NOTES...I will be going by sallys on the way from class tomorrow...


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## twinkletoes17 (Sep 9, 2009)

temfash said:


> I used porosity control for the first time this week, my hair has never felt so moisturised but it takes so much longer to dry.


 
Because your cuticles are closed 

Porosity control is the best hair purchase I could've made. I was DC more, moisturing more, stretching, not stretching, protective styling, the whole shenanigans, and my hair was STILL breaking.

I used PC once and it has drastically decreased, it's nearly all gone  I hate to sound like a commercial but PC is truly worth it, especially for those who continue to scratch their head because of their breakage problem lol.


----------



## isabella09 (Sep 11, 2009)

Excellent thread, thank you Newflowers.  an ACV rinse as my final step after a steam DC was definitely the missing link in my regimen. After incorporating this as my final step, honestly, my hair was soo soft, smooth, locked-in more moisture and was virtually tangle free  This is amongst some of the most important steps in my regimen that I've learned on this forum.


----------



## Angel of the North (Sep 14, 2009)

For a long time I've been unable to work out why my ends are so dry even after oiling them. I think I've found that missing step to complete my reggie now I'll be able to at those dry ends. 

Thank you to OP and all of you who have contributed to this super dupa thread 

I'll let you know how I get on


----------



## Taleah2009 (Sep 28, 2009)

mstar said:


> This was one of the very first threads I read when I joined LHCF, and I've been tying to balance my porosity for the past five months. Porosity Control just didn't work for me, and the ACV rinses left my hair feeling rough and straw-like.
> 
> Just last week, I hit upon my perfect ACV mix...it turns out that I had been using too much vinegar. The first time I tried my perfect mix, the tangles melted out of my hair as I poured the rinse over it. After my hair dried, it was smooth, soft, and silky, with loads of shine. And over the next few days, it remained soft and touchable. The dry, crispy hair is finally gone!
> 
> My mix is 3/4 teaspoon ACV in 2 cups of distilled water. I think I can finally start retaining length now that my hair isn't so dry.


 
I was wondering if this every happened to anyone before.  I tried an ACV rinse the other day.  and WHOA! My hair did not respond.  It knotted so quick (first time that every happened).  But I need something to help my dry ends, so I will play around with my measurements.  Less vinegar.  I used 1 tablespoon of vinegar and 1 cup of tap water.  Does the water have to be distilled?


----------



## isabella09 (Oct 1, 2009)

I just wondered if any of you ladies store your ACV rinse in the refrigerator (as mine has started to ferment)? And if so, how long does the rinse last in it’s refrigerated state? Thanks very much.


----------



## mstar (Oct 2, 2009)

isabella09 said:


> I just wondered if any of you ladies store your ACV rinse in the refrigerator (as mine has started to ferment)? And if so, how long does the rinse last in it’s refrigerated state? Thanks very much.


I make mine fresh each time. I use 2 cups of water, pour it over my head, and I'm done.


----------



## melodies815 (Oct 26, 2009)

This may be really silly, but I love the way Roux PC feels between my fingers as I apply it to my hair.  It's all slippery and slidey (made-up word).  I like.


----------



## Ms_Twana (Oct 26, 2009)

newflowers said:


> It occurred to me that there are a number of new members who have dryness, strength, products, breakage, tangling issues, and perhaps what they have is lifted cuticle issues - which can be fixed by acidifying the hair, thus the need for Porosity Control, a properly prepared acv rinse, or being aware of the pH of your hair products.
> 
> For a time, there were a number of posts about porosity but not so many lately that I've noticed. What do you ladies think - how are you hardening the hair shaft after treating it? Are you using products to ensure the cuticle lie flat? For the newer ladies, are you in the know (and I'm late as usual) about the need to lower the pH of your hair? Do you know the pH of your water and hair products and the difference between/importance of alkaline or acid levels in your hair products?



What cha talkin bout, Willis???

Heck, I ain't a newbie and I still didn't know anything about laying the cuticle flat and acid levels in hair products. I did read that long thread on porous hair and it was like reading French. I had no idea what they were talking about. But, I'm assuming that this is the reason my ends keep getting frizzy. They're not dry or damaged like I originally thought. And I almost cut my hair after reading some threads of ladies with dry/frizzy ends wanting advice, and a million and one ladies told them to cut their hair. Some of ya'll are scissor happy!!  Anyway, I asked a stylist in Trade Secret to look at my ends, and she said they weren't damaged at all. Then a SA at Sally's did a strand test and confirmed as well that my hair is healthy. So ACV rinse is what I need, not scissors!!! 


ETA: So does AVC rinse have a different affect than Porosity Control??


----------



## LoveCraze (Oct 26, 2009)

afiya27 said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this but...
> 
> If I understand this porosity thing correctly, it involves the degree to which your hair absorbs and releases moisture. This is apparently related to the degree of openness of the cuticles (more open = more absorption/loss). The degree of cuticle opening depends upon pH (acidic = closed cuticle, basic = opened cuticle) ...
> 
> ...


 
I saw this post and I thought it made perfect sense to use both baking soda first to open the cuticle and then ACV to close the cuticle.  But I'm really surprised that noone responded to this comment. Perhaps someone who is a porosity guru can give more insight on this train of thought. This is also not the first time I have heard that if you use baking soda in your hair care, that you should also use ACV to follow.


----------



## Supervixen (Oct 26, 2009)

So, are most of you all using the PC shampoo or conditioner?  Friday I bought the shampoo, and I noticed a couple of things...

#1.  My hair didn't really get many suds.  Is this normal?  I felt like I needed to use another shampoo to clean my scalp; is this true?

#2.  The ends of my driest parts are feeling slightly better.  Is this something I need to repeat often to get my hair to absorb more moisture?


----------



## mstar (Oct 26, 2009)

StephElise said:


> I saw this post and I thought it made perfect sense to use both baking soda first to open the cuticle and then ACV to close the cuticle. But I'm really surprised that noone responded to this comment. Perhaps someone who is a porosity guru can give more insight on this train of thought. This is also not the first time I have heard that if you use baking soda in your hair care, that you should also use ACV to follow.


Afiya started a new thread asking her question about baking soda & ACV, and Gymfreak gave some VERY thorough and detailed answers: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=365431&highlight=

Basically, it's not a good idea to try and open the cuticles w/baking soda, then close them with ACV.


----------



## Supervixen (Oct 29, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> So, are most of you all using the PC shampoo or conditioner? Friday I bought the shampoo, and I noticed a couple of things...
> 
> #1. My hair didn't really get many suds. Is this normal? I felt like I needed to use another shampoo to clean my scalp; is this true?
> 
> #2. The ends of my driest parts are feeling slightly better. Is this something I need to repeat often to get my hair to absorb more moisture?


 

I tried again last night, with marvelous results!!!!

First, I did a dry protein pre-poo with ORS Hair Mayo. I let it set for about an hour with heat.

Then, I shampoo'd with NTM 2x. I did a final 2 poo'ings with Porosity Control. 

I did my moisture DC with NTM Daily Deep Masque and let it set for an hour with heat.

Then I used NTM Leave in and sealed with Shea Butter. I rolled my hair for a wet set with Black 'n' Sassy Wrap Creme (I <3 this stuff).

I dried on the cool setting and did a Silk Wrap. My hair feels like butter. Even the spots that were notoriously dry before feel as soft, smooth, and moisturized as the rest of my hair. I didn't even have to hit my roots with the flat iron!

*Ladies, is Porosity a step that should be taken with each wash or is that overkill?*


----------



## scotchbonnet (Nov 11, 2009)

This was such an inspiring thread. I am having dry hair and breakage issues. I tried the ACV rinse and my hair DOES feel softer. I'm natural and since I am having SEVERE breakage - this is what I am going to try: 

 - Redken chelating shampoo (I have VERY hard water where I live)
 - Aphogee shampoo for damaged hair
 - PC conditioner 
 - Aphogee 2 step treatment
 - DC with AOHSR
 - ACV rinse - **Do I need to do this step?


Does this make sense? I would really appreciate any suggestions. 

TIA


----------



## scotchbonnet (Nov 11, 2009)

bump.......anyone?


----------



## ladybuddafly (Nov 11, 2009)

scotchbonnet said:


> bump.......anyone?


 
I wish I had a definitive answer for you, but since I am still new here and still learning myself I can't say.  However, I can say that I don't think it will hurt to try and see what results you get.

I, too, am experiencing breakage and will add this ACV rinse to regimen.  Can't hurt right?


----------



## ladybuddafly (Nov 11, 2009)

Cyd Chicago said:


> I tried again last night, with marvelous results!!!!
> 
> First, I did a dry protein pre-poo with ORS Hair Mayo. I let it set for about an hour with heat.
> 
> ...


 

This is a great question!  I guess I'll have to search another month or so before I find the answer.  LOL!


----------



## dcprdiva (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm wondering about that too - is there anyone who uses Porosity Control Shampoo for each wash?  If not, how often?


----------



## mstar (Nov 11, 2009)

scotchbonnet said:


> This was such an inspiring thread. I am having dry hair and breakage issues. I tried the ACV rinse and my hair DOES feel softer. I'm natural and since I am having SEVERE breakage - this is what I am going to try:
> 
> - Redken chelating shampoo (I have VERY hard water where I live)
> - Aphogee shampoo for damaged hair
> ...


I really don't think that you need to use both PC and ACV during the same wash. They do the same thing, so that sounds like overkill. I know some people use it twice while they're relaxing, but I don't see any reason why a natural would need to. 

I do my ACV rinses once a week. I'm natural, too, and the ACV rinses stopped my breakage in its tracks. I hope it works for you, too...

ETA: I co-wash every 3 days, so I do NOT use ACV with every wash. I use it with maybe every 3rd wash, so about once a week. HTH


----------



## goodmorningruby (Nov 11, 2009)

Subscribing to read the rest of the thread later...


----------



## Supervixen (Nov 11, 2009)

ladybuddafly said:


> This is a great question! I guess I'll have to search another month or so before I find the answer. LOL!


 

A lot of ladies are using Porosity weekly.  Here's the thread:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?p=9302838&highlight=porosity+weekly#post9302838


----------



## scotchbonnet (Nov 12, 2009)

ladybuddafly said:


> I, too, am experiencing breakage and will add this ACV rinse to regimen. Can't hurt right?


 
Okay - I tried something today: 

I washed with Aphogee shampoo for damaged hair, used baking soda rinse to open up my cuticles (I have low porosity), then I deep conditioned with heat, then I did an ACV rinse. 

My hair feels so soft!!! BUTTTTT - I dont want to jump the gun and say the ACV worked - I have to wait until tomorrow morning to see how my hair feels. 

I have ordered the Porosity Control from Roux - I will use this instead of the ACV when I get it to see if there is a difference. I've decided that since I have low porosity - I will leave the PC for my finishing step- after I've opened my cuticles and deep conditioned with heat. Any comments or advice welcomed! 



This board is really informative!!


----------



## scotchbonnet (Nov 12, 2009)

mstar said:


> I really don't think that you need to use both PC and ACV during the same wash. They do the same thing, so that sounds like overkill. I know some people use it twice while they're relaxing, but I don't see any reason why a natural would need to.
> 
> I do my ACV rinses once a week. I'm natural, too, and the ACV rinses stopped my breakage in its tracks. I hope it works for you, too...
> 
> ETA: I co-wash every 3 days, so I do NOT use ACV with every wash. I use it with maybe every 3rd wash, so about once a week. HTH


 
Thank you for your feedback. 

What is your water/ACV mix proportion? TIA


----------



## Ms_Twana (Nov 13, 2009)

newflowers said:


> ...being aware of the pH of your hair products.
> 
> ...how are you hardening the hair shaft after treating it? Are you using products to ensure the cuticle lie flat? Do you know the pH of your water and hair products and the difference between/importance of alkaline or acid levels in your hair products?


 
Bump. 

Okay, so HOW do you do these things?? How do I know the pH level of my hair products? What products ensure the cuticle lay flat? How do I know the alkaline/acid levels in my products?

I'm pretty certain this is the reason for my frizzy ends. I just don't know how to make my products keep my levels balanced.


----------



## Ms_Twana (Nov 13, 2009)

scotchbonnet said:


> My hair feels so soft!!! BUTTTTT - I dont want to jump the gun and say the ACV worked - I have to wait until tomorrow morning to see how my hair feels.


 
Well.............


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Nov 13, 2009)

????  erplexed


----------



## scotchbonnet (Nov 13, 2009)

Ms_Twana said:


> Well.............


 
 Well - I think something worked!! 
Since the thread helped me to figure out I have low porosity - I decided to do a baking soda rinse after my shampoo and before my DC with heat. I did the ACV rinse after I washed the DC out to help close back my cuticles. MY hair DEFINITELY feels better and stayed looking softer than it ever had!! I have real COARSE hair - SEVERELY COARSE even. 

The next morning I did not have a matted mess with my natural TWA as was usually the case. In fact all I did to today was lightly spray with a moisturiser and then add a little oil. So it could be BOTH the fact that I opened up my usually flat cuticle to allow the moisture of the DC and then closed it with the ACV rinse. 

To answer your previous question - make sure you figure out if you are low or high porosity. At the absolute end of your wash routine - use the Porosity Control or the ACV to lay your cuticles flat. 

I'm going to deep condition tomorrow again with heat - I'm not sure if I shoudl do a baking soda rinse again so soon - but my hair is real resistant and needs help to open the cuticle so my treatments can penetrate....I'll update if I notice further improvements.   

The baking soda rinse I use is 1tbs baking soda to 2 cups water.


----------



## sheba1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Disclaimerlease.forgive.the.periods.as.my.keyboard.is.on.the.fritz...but.I.really.wanted.
to.respond.to.your.post



Ms_Twana said:


> Bump.
> 
> Okay, so HOW do you do these things?? How do I know the pH level of my hair products? What products ensure the cuticle lay flat? How do I know the alkaline/acid levels in my products?
> 
> I'm pretty certain this is the reason for my frizzy ends. I just don't know how to make my products keep my levels balanced.



Well...I.don't.know.all.the.ins.and.outs.but.I.feel.certain.of.the.following:

-cheapie.cons.are.lower.pH.and.tend.to.help.to.close.the.cuticle
-porosity.control,joico's.cuticle.sealer,etc.are.of.the.lower.ones.and.are.good.to.use
immediately.after.shampoo
-if.you.suspect.porosity.is.your.problem...no.need.to.know.the.pH.of.all.your.products
just.of.the.ones.that.will.help.you.to.seal.the.cuticle.
-Try.the.17.minute.miracle.joico.steps.ASAP!!..like.on.your.next.wash...You.can.sub
products.really.easily..just.follow.the.steps...They.are:
--shampoo
--seal.cuticle..(I.like.porosity.control)
--reconstruct..(I.like.aphogee.2.minute)
--deep.condition..(I.usually.use.Sally's.GVP.conditioning.balm.if.I'm.not.going.to.leave.the.shower)
--leave-in,style,etc

If.porosity.is.the.problem...the.joico.17.minute.miracle.steps.are.the.solution...my.hair.will.
do.whatever.I.ask.after.them


----------



## scotchbonnet (Nov 13, 2009)

sheba1 said:


> If.porosity.is.the.problem...the.joico.17.minute.miracle.steps.are.the.solution...my.hair.will.
> do.whatever.I.ask.after.them


 
Your keyboard is doing the disco girl! 

But doesn't it depend on whether you are high or low porosity - to decide on whether to seal your cuticle before you DC or after?

For me - moisture wages a real kung fu battle to get in my strands - so I really need to open them before I DC and I definitely must DC with heat.....


----------



## LoveCraze (Nov 13, 2009)

Ms_Twana said:


> Bump.
> 
> Okay, so HOW do you do these things?? How do I know the pH level of my hair products? What products ensure the cuticle lay flat? How do I know the alkaline/acid levels in my products?
> 
> I'm pretty certain this is the reason for my frizzy ends. I just don't know how to make my products keep my levels balanced.


 
I believe that if your products don't specifically state their pH levels, then you should invest in some pH paper so that you can test your products yourself.  You can usually find them near the pool/spa products section at your local Walmart, Target, what have you. Products that have a lower pH close the cuticle.
HTH.


----------



## sheba1 (Nov 13, 2009)

scotchbonnet said:


> Your keyboard is doing the disco girl!
> 
> But doesn't it depend on whether you are high or low porosity - to decide on whether to seal your cuticle before you DC or after?
> 
> For me - moisture wages a real kung fu battle to get in my strands - so I really need to open them before I DC and I definitely must DC with heat.....



Tell.me.about.it!!..The.disco.and.doin.the.bump,too!...blasted.thing.

I.think.the.steps.will.work.either.way!...I.think.if.you.are.someone.that.has.very
tight.cuticles.(like.most.naturals)...you.might.want.to.consider.DCing.with
heat.every.so.often.to.really.get.in.there...but.I.believe.the.power.in.the.steps.are.as
follows:
--cleanse
--seal
--reconstruct.to.reinforce.the.sealed.cuticle
--deep.condition...sealed.cuticle.is.like.scales.so.conditioner.should.penetrate...but.the.seal
helps.to.keep.the.conditioner.that.gets.in.to.stay.in
--rinse.(I.usually.rinse.with.cool.water.and.a.cheapie.con)
--leave-in.style,etc.;enjoy.moisturized.strong.hair.that.has.never.heard.of
a.tangle.or.knot


----------



## scotchbonnet (Nov 13, 2009)

StephElise said:


> Products that have a lower pH close the cuticle.
> HTH.


 
NOW THAT THERE!!!! THAT IS A LIGHT BULB MOMENT FOR ME! 

Which means co-washing with cheapie conditoners are a no-no for me because I have low porosity! So - then it means if I do co-wash I have to use something (e.g. baking soda rinse first) to allow mositure in my hair......BINGO!



sheba1 said:


> --cleanse
> --seal
> --reconstruct.to.reinforce.the.sealed.cuticle
> --deep.condition...sealed.cuticle.is.like.scales.so.conditioner.should.penetrate...but.the.seal
> ...


 
I'm going try this when I get my Porosity Control next week and see which method works best for me - either the baking soda rinse as I did yesterday or your method. Will let you know!

Thanks ladies - I feel like doing the happy dance! Can you say on the way to a breakthrough - lol.


----------



## Ms_Twana (Nov 13, 2009)

scotchbonnet said:


> To answer your previous question - make sure you figure out if you are low or high porosity.


 
I think that's the problem right there. I have NO IDEA!! All of the tests that I've done (hair floating in water, pulling the strand) indicate that my hair is fine. But SOMETHING is causing my frizzy ends. When I air dry in a bun, my ends look a mess. When I rollerset, my ends look GREAT. So, I'm pretty sure it's a cuticle issue. 



sheba1 said:


> -cheapie.cons.are.lower.pH.and.tend.to.help.to.close.the.cuticle
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> ...


 
 See above.



scotchbonnet said:


> NOW THAT THERE!!!! THAT IS A LIGHT BULB MOMENT FOR ME!
> 
> Which means co-washing with cheapie conditoners are a no-no for me because I have low porosity! So - then it means if I do co-wash I have to use something (e.g. baking soda rinse first) to allow mositure in my hair......BINGO!


 
 

See ya'll gotta take it slow with me. I think I have a learning disability when it comes to understand hair porosity.


----------



## laurend085 (Nov 13, 2009)

*porosity?*

Do I have LOW porosity?  I'm basing it on the fact that when I color my hair it doesn't come out the color I choose but instead a shade or two darker.  Also I thin I read you use baking soda before i you do have low porosity.  I also heard that this can be very bad for your hair if you don't use it right.   Can someone help?


----------



## Ms_Twana (Nov 13, 2009)

scotchbonnet said:


> NOW THAT THERE!!!! THAT IS A LIGHT BULB MOMENT FOR ME!
> 
> Which means co-washing with cheapie conditoners are a no-no for me because I have low porosity! So - then it means if I do co-wash I have to use something (e.g. baking soda rinse first) to allow mositure in my hair......BINGO!


 
Okay, I think I've got it now. I just googled hair porosity and read a couple of sites. Some of them confused me even more. But I think my hair may have a low porosity. I say that because when I wash, it seems like it takes forever for my hair to get wet. Also, when I used to go to stylists for a relaxer, they would let it sit on my hair for forever in order to get it straight, if they didn't, it wouldn't take. Which would explain why my hair strands float in water. So, in order to fix this, I need products to raise the cuticle and let moisture in, right??

Scotch, how do you know your hair has low porosity??


----------



## scotchbonnet (Nov 14, 2009)

Ms_Twana said:


> I say that because when I wash, it seems like it takes forever for my hair to get wet. Also, when I used to go to stylists for a relaxer, they would let it sit on my hair for forever in order to get it straight, if they didn't, it wouldn't take. Which would explain why my hair strands float in water. So, in order to fix this, I need products to raise the cuticle and let moisture in, right??
> 
> Scotch, how do you know your hair has low porosity??


 
I know for the exact same reason you stated! When I did the strand test, my finger slides no problem, when I do the bowl with water test - that hair is almost doing the long jump over the water! When I used to relax - no matter which EXTRA strength relaxer I used and in those days we talking like Jeffries (!!!!!) LOL, that ish NEVER burnt and the hair refused to be straight! I have never been able to get a bone straight relaxer. 

One thread on the Naturally Curly forum helped to put it together. This was another helpful thread for me. 

Yes, if you have low porosity, you need a product which raise the cuticle first to let the moisture in before you DC and DC-ing with heat is best. The baking soda rinse helps to raise the cuticle and DC-ing with heat helps the moisture treatment to penetrate more into low porosity hair - (from what I have undertsood so far). I just bought a Mastex heating cap because clearly I am going to need to DC with heat regularly and a steamer just ain't in my budget at the mo! 

Re the baking soda rinse - yes it can go wrong if the right mix is not used. The right mix is 1 tbs  baking soda to 2cups water. I think I found this on one of the two threads above too. 

I would love to find a product which can substitute for the baking soda rinse though - or even a shampoo which does the same. So if anyone knows such a product - HOLLA!!!

HTH.


----------



## mstar (Nov 16, 2009)

scotchbonnet said:


> Thank you for your feedback.
> 
> What is your water/ACV mix proportion? TIA


Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. I use three-quarters of a _tea_spoon ACV in 2 cups of distilled water.

I would say to beware of all of the ACV recipes floating around this forum...some people are using 2-4 _table_spoons in 2 cups of water. That's an incredibly acidic solution, and it can really wreak havoc on natural hair. HTH


----------



## IDareT'sHair (Mar 7, 2010)

Bumping For those of You who are Still Confused and Struggling with:

How to Use Porosity Control
What is Porosity
When to use It

All those Unanswered Questions, this is a Fantastic Thread that helped me when I first started on my HHJ

Enjoy!


----------



## darlingdiva (Apr 18, 2010)

Bumping this thread again for newbies & for anyone who's doing all the right things & still having hair trouble.

Thanks to Newflowers for starting this thread, and thanks to mstar for providing that ACV mixture.  I think I may have been using too much, but my hair does feel better with Roux PC.


----------



## NJoy (Apr 19, 2010)

This is an awesome thread!  My hair is silk today!


----------



## IDareT'sHair (Apr 19, 2010)

This is One of those Threads, you can't read Enough Times.............


----------



## trinigul (Apr 29, 2010)

Finished reading this entire thread.  Great info. RPC (and protein) have DEFINITELY upped my moisture and retention.


----------



## Vintageglam (Apr 29, 2010)

Great thread and well worth a read !!!


----------



## BonBon (Apr 29, 2010)

mstar said:


> Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. I use three-quarters of a _tea_spoon ACV in 2 cups of distilled water.
> 
> I would say to beware of all of the ACV recipes floating around this forum...some people are using 2-4 _table_spoons in 2 cups of water. That's an incredibly acidic solution, and it can really wreak havoc on natural hair. HTH



 Aww god I didn't even read the recipe as I didn't think it could be harmful. I used maybe 4 table spoons in 1 cup. Its gone dryish, not sure what I should do now if it is harmful DCing at the moment. My avc is 4% acid


----------



## Sharpened (Apr 29, 2010)

tickledpinkies09 said:


> Aww god I didn't even read the recipe as I didn't think it could be harmful. I used maybe 4 table spoons in 1 cup. Its gone dryish, not sure what I should do now if it is harmful DCing at the moment. My avc is 4% acid


Your DC should take care of any dryness. Just use less vinegar (like one teaspoon per cup of water) and gradually increase it until you get the ratio you like. I need to get back to doing it mixed in a tea once I get this shedding under control.

Here is a great thread about it: ACV rinses are strengthening my hair....


----------



## Ese88 (Jan 22, 2011)

what a great thread!


----------



## cocoagirl (Jan 23, 2011)

great thread, just got through reading the whole thing!


----------



## cocoagirl (Jan 26, 2011)

So if you use PC after wash and before protein and moisturizing conditioners, should you NOT use heat with the conditioners?  Should one only use heat with their conditioner if they use PC as the very last step?  I'z confused...


----------



## missyanne (Dec 28, 2011)

Wish I found this website before I cut my hair I got tired of fighting the dryness and thought it was damaged hair and just shaved it off.


----------



## adamseve (Jan 12, 2012)

Posters, thank so much for this information.  I'm thoroughly confused, but I think I may have found the reason why my hair is breaking even with all the TLC I give it.  I'm also thinking I may have figured out why my ends feel rough, but the roots don't.  I also think I know why my hair won't stay detangled even when I've detangled it under running water and put it in twists.

I want to make sure I got this so please bear with me:

1.  Shampoo hair weekly with a moisturizing shampoo w pH balance of 7.

2.  DC with JessiCurl, Mixed Chicks, Darcy's Botanical, or homemade DC.  All have pH balance of 5-6.

3.  Rinse with tap water that has pH of 7.4.    Final rinse with ACV that has pH of 3-4.  

5.  Apply LIC that has pH balance of 3.

As I'm styling my hair dries a bit and shrinks with tangles even after detangling.  So, I'll wet with tap water in my spray bottle that has a pH of 7.    From my understanding of the pH balance it will make the hair bushy instead of curling.  Also, the water doesn't seem to help when I try to detangle again even though it's wet & I use a wide tooth comb; thus I'm seeing breakage.

So, here's what I've concluded:

1.  I have normal porosity hair since it didn't take much to relax my hair in the past, less than 15-20 minutes, if that long.  However, the high pH balance in the water is making it overly porous, and thus not retaining moisture, breaking, and rough ends.  

If that's not correct, then it seems that my natural hair may be highly porous.

2.  Apply the ACV rinse BEFORE the DC to retain more moisture.

Am I headed in the right direction?  Keep in mind that I already baggy/ GHE at least 3x week and M&S every 3 days w/ my LIC & combo oil (hemp, EVCO, EVOO, castor oil, jojoba).

Thank you in advance for your help!


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