# So sad to hear the news...



## neenzmj (Dec 31, 2009)

I know I'm late, but I am so sad to hear the news about Pastor Paul Shepphard.


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## discobiscuits (Dec 31, 2009)

ETA: Giiiiiirrrrrll. You had me scared. He's one of my favorites.

Okay. I see. "Moral Failure" the universal code for affair or DL.


http://www.mv-voice.com/news/show_story.php?id=2311


> Local megachurch's charismatic leader resigns
> Abundant Life pastor Paul Sheppard steps down for unspecified 'moral failure'
> 
> by Daniel DeBolt
> ...


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## neenzmj (Dec 31, 2009)

Sorry, 1star, didn't mean to alarm you.  I figured I was late so I didn't want to post old news.  

He was one of my favorites, too.  His teaching was always so practical and right on point.



1star said:


> ETA: Giiiiiirrrrrll. You had me scared. He's one of my favorites.
> 
> Okay. I see. "Moral Failure" the universal code for affair or DL.


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## Ms Lala (Dec 31, 2009)

I will pray for him and his family.  I hope they work through this.  It sounds like he handled it right by stepping down for the time being and being honest w/his spouse.  God is able to restore and I will be praying for him, his family, and the congregation.  I know that I have gained greatly from listening to his show.


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## Scasey (Jan 1, 2010)

Now this explains why he is no longer on Oneplace.com.  I was truly blessed by his messages.


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## discobiscuits (Jan 1, 2010)

re above ^^^^ so was i. i'm DL-ing the free podcasts while they are still available. i'm gonna miss him. he didn't need to step down. the bible does not require that of him. i guess that is what he thought was best for him, his family & the congregation. i was so blesses by him i was tempted to move just to join that church. LOL


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## lalah (Jan 1, 2010)

Can you post the link for the free podcasts? I tried locating them with no luck. Thanks!


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## kbragg (Jan 1, 2010)

*Another said it was unfortunate that pastors are put on pedestals when really they are just as "fallible" as anyone else.*

I wholeheartedly agree with this. No MAN or WOMAN deserves to be put on that pedestal save Christ and Christ alone. People seem to think that just because someone is called to lead it means they are somehow Spiritually 'higher' or 'closer' to God than the 'laity' and that could not be further from the truth. They are still men and women who have personality flaws, weaknesses, hindrances, trials, etc. just like the rest of us. The only difference between this Pastor and any other man in his congregation is the level of condemnation that will come upon him.

This is why I stay in the Word and focus on my personal relationship with Christ and look to clergy for a different perspective and guidance.

If anything I think it would do nothing but bless the church if we could get away from this idolic practice of making preachers and teachers out to be mini Christs and let them be real and open with their struggles. If there was transparency in the Church on all levels the devil wouldn't be able to get a foot hold and bind people in condemnation. Not only that, but how much of a blessing to a man struggling with pornography to know his pastor struggles too? How much more could he relate and feel safe being open about his issues if he knew his Pastor wasn't some halo wearing perfect mini Christ but a man just like him?

How much of a blessing for us ladies if we knew our pastor's wives, deaconesses, and female co pastors snap out at their husbands, struggle with submitting to his authority and GASP! might slip and drop a cuss word or two when they're very angry Maybe we wouldn't feel so lowly and inadequate, so much like "bad Christians" and be able to fully walk in the Liberty that Christ provides. Maybe we could be free to be real....which is truly the best place to be because that's where God can really get in there and work on us.

It's a scary thought isn't it? Because through the bondage of religion the devil has sold the church on the lie that you have to "Be good" to be saved. We can never be good enough. As long as we're striving to "be good" we will always hide (both consciously and subconsciously) our short comings in the darkness where satan can have a field day with us rather than letting it be in the light, where God's transforming work takes place.

I think the church is too scared to tell the truth on this though. They're afraid that overnight the church will turn into Sodom or something But that's a lie from the pit of hell. When people are FREE and able to be truly honest and authentic, God works at rapid speed! I really think we need to come to a place where we are totally open and honest about our sin. Tell the truth. Admit that we know it's wrong but we are too weak to change it. Because when we do, God will work miracles in us.


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## Dove56 (Jan 1, 2010)

I love this man I even went to hear him speak in Irving, TX in April 2008. I got the letter in the mail from his ministry dated Dec 22. stating he was resigning.  I sure do hate it.


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## Sharpened (Jan 1, 2010)

1star said:


> . he didn't need to step down. the bible does not require that of him.


*Titus 1:6* - An elder must be *blameless*. He must be the husband of one wife and have children who are believers and who are not accused of having wild lifestyles or of being rebellious.

If he is no longer blameless, he cannot remain an elder. He is doing the right thing because he is true to the Word.


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## SND411 (Jan 1, 2010)

kbragg said:


> *Another said it was unfortunate that pastors are put on pedestals when really they are just as "fallible" as anyone else.*
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree with this. No MAN or WOMAN deserves to be put on that pedestal save Christ and Christ alone. People seem to think that just because someone is called to lead it means they are somehow Spiritually 'higher' or 'closer' to God than the 'laity' and that could not be further from the truth. They are still men and women who have personality flaws, weaknesses, hindrances, trials, etc. just like the rest of us. The only difference between this Pastor and any other man in his congregation is the level of condemnation that will come upon him.
> 
> ...



Actually, the Bible says something different:

James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly


I agree with the bolded


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## momi (Jan 2, 2010)

Nymphe said:


> *Titus 1:6* - An elder must be *blameless*. He must be the husband of one wife and have children who are believers and who are not accused of having wild lifestyles or of being rebellious.
> 
> If he is no longer blameless, he cannot remain an elder. He is doing the right thing because he is true to the Word.


 
Exactly.  There are responsibilities that go along with the title of an elder/leader.  I am truly sorry this has happened, but I believe he has made the right decision.  

As an aside, I am completely shocked and had no idea.


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## jwhitley6 (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm so disappointed about this.  I've been to this church a few times and considered joining but the distance wasn't ideal for me.  His messages were always straight forward, poignant and truly a blessing to me.  I will continue to pray for him and the ministry.  I know several people who attend ALCF....I pray this doesn't shake their faith.


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## Marhia (Jan 3, 2010)

momi said:


> Exactly.  There are responsibilities that go along with the title of an elder/leader.  I am truly sorry this has happened, but I believe he has made the right decision.
> 
> As an aside, I am completely shocked and had no idea.


I agree while we are all shocked this is the best decision for him to step down. I pray for him and his family and I pray that they get through this.


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## divya (Jan 3, 2010)

Very sad to hear. The devil is truly busy in the church. I pray that this pastor, his family and the congregation find comfort and healing in the Lord.


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## discobiscuits (Jan 3, 2010)

*



lalah said:



			Can you post the link for the free podcasts? I tried locating them with no luck. Thanks!
		
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http://www.podfeed.net/episodes.asp?id=15167&ct=1




Marhia said:



			I agree while we are all shocked this is the best decision for him to step down.
		
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I disagree about the best decision. I think it is a good one for the moment if it helps the congregation be at rest but I doubt it. I think his stepping down may cause more harm than good. I think the members who are also going through moral failures would have been blessed to have an open, living example to see go through and overcome the same. Just my opinion.​


AfriPrincess411 said:



			James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly
		
Click to expand...

So true which is why I never accepted my calling into ministry. I did not want the responsibility on that level. I do not want to be forced to live my life at a level judged by other humans who are sinners like me and not God or Jesus only as another human with sin can't judge or condemn another. John 8:7​


momi said:



			Exactly.  There are responsibilities that go along with the title of an elder/leader.  I am truly sorry this has happened, but I believe he has made the right decision.
		
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ITA. The responsibilities are enormous and, IMO he can still carry them out while being ministered to by the Holy Spirit and corrected by God.​


Nymphe said:



Titus 1:6 - An elder must be blameless. He must be the husband of one wife and have children who are believers and who are not accused of having wild lifestyles or of being rebellious.

If he is no longer blameless, he cannot remain an elder. He is doing the right thing because he is true to the Word. 

Click to expand...



Pastor Paul is a pastor, not an elder/bishop. A bishop/elder presides over more than one church, a pastor presides over one church. This passage, when read/quoted in context, refers to bishops and he is not a bishop. This scripture also is discussing the qualifications of a bishop/elder before he (not she) is chosen, not his qualifications while he holds that office (aka position). 

Finally, this passage does not instruct said bishop/elder to leave his position if he backslides. No one has to step down if they are found no longer blameless.

If Pastor Paul should step down so should Bishop T.D. Jakes based on the scripture you quoted.




			From Strong's
presbyteros (meaning elder in age)
use of word among the Christians: those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
		
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That said, his "moral failure" may or may not preclude him from administering the functions of his office of Pastor. That is determined by God. Since Pastor Paul stepped down of his own accord, I think that it was a decision he made with God's help and permission. 

God grants mercy and forgiveness and He restores. All of these can be accomplished whether or not a man steps down from his position of leadership due to a "moral failure".

All pastors are humans and all humans are sinners making no one blameless or without fault. ​
*


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## Sharpened (Jan 3, 2010)

1star said:


> <b>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the Apostles' day, a bishop was an overseer to make sure food and money were distributed fairly; a deacon was a server during the worship. A pastor has to be both spiritually when dealing with His sheep, so the same rules apply to him. *We must stop compromising! *Compromise is weakening the affect of the Word, manifesting in the world at large. I have seen with my own eyes the corrupting effect the pastors who don't step down have. His forgiveness is between God and Sheppard, not us. Sheppard did the right thing and that takes courage. May Our Father hold him up as an example to others.


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## LaToya28 (Jan 3, 2010)

Wow, this is my first time hearing this! I loved listening to Pastor Paul's teaching on the radio. He always preached the truth while keeping it real at the same time. I pray that he and his wife make it through this difficult time.


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## discobiscuits (Jan 3, 2010)

Nymphe said:


> *In the Apostles' day, a bishop was an overseer to make sure food and money were distributed fairly; a deacon was a server during the worship*. A pastor has to be both spiritually when dealing with His sheep, so the same rules apply to him. *We must stop compromising! *Compromise is weakening the affect of the Word, manifesting in the world at large. I have seen with my own eyes the corrupting effect the pastors who don't step down have. His forgiveness is between God and Sheppard, not us. Sheppard did the right thing and that takes courage. May Our Father hold him up as an example to others.


that's not what Strong's reads but okay. However, we are not discussing deacons. A pastor is not a bishop and that passage refers to bishops/elders and these "rules" do not apply to pastors. 

The "Apostle" Paul does not instruct the person to leave his office. He just says one cannot be considered for that office if the qualifications don't exist. Even if we conclude that once one is disqualified while holding that position and therefore should be removed, it still does not apply to pastors, only bishops/elders.

i totally agree with not compromising. but which one of us is without sin?

imo, it is not compromise for a pastor to not step down if he has a moral failure. many congregants and church leaders in other positions have MFs and they stay where they are. i don't see bishops or presiding elders or priests, popes, nuns, prelates, stewards/esses, choir directors, children's church leaders, all kinds of church offices/postions stepping down. 

why is this "standard" only held for pastors? if it is held for one it should be held for all.


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## discobiscuits (Jan 3, 2010)

divya said:


> Very sad to hear. The devil is truly busy in the church. I pray that this pastor, his family and the congregation find comfort and healing in the Lord.



 hey divya.  Is it the devil or the lust of the flesh/lust of the eye? some times we are so quick to say it is the devil when it is really us.


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## Sharpened (Jan 3, 2010)

1star said:


> that's not what Strong's reads but okay. However, we are not discussing deacons. A pastor is not a bishop and that passage refers to bishops/elders and these "rules" do not apply to pastors.
> 
> The "Apostle" Paul does not instruct the person to leave his office. He just says one cannot be considered for that office if the qualifications don't exist. Even if we conclude that once one is disqualified while holding that position and therefore should be removed, it still does not apply to pastors, only bishops/elders.
> 
> ...


Strong is OK, but independent research with the Lord guiding us is best.

Why is the world at large screwed-up? It is because the ones in the pulpit are and those who not holding them accountable. Sin is seen as a trivial thing that repentance can cover up but not the true pollution that it is. Why is this so difficult to see?

Many of those "leaders" you mentioned are lay people and not mentioned once in the Bible.


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## Mariaat40 (Jan 3, 2010)

1star said:


> imo, it is not compromise for a pastor to not step down if he has a moral failure. many congregants and church leaders in other positions have MFs and they stay where they are. i don't see bishops or presiding elders or priests, popes, nuns, prelates, stewards/esses, choir directors, children's church leaders, all kinds of church offices/postions stepping down.
> 
> why is this "standard" only held for pastors? if it is held for one it should be held for all.



I agree with your last sentence. The standard should be the same for all of those in leadership. I certainly would not, for example, want my children's pastor to be in a position of leadership under similar circumstances. Rev. Shepherd did the right thing in stepping down. I asked my seminary-trained husband about bishops and their role was very similar to that of today's pastors. No one is saying that he should step down permanently. But he certainly should step away from his duties for a time of repentance and to attend to his home life.


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## divya (Jan 3, 2010)

1star said:


> hey divya.  Is it *the devil or the lust of the flesh/lust of the eye*? some times we are so quick to say it is the devil when it is really us.



The two are not separate. The devil tempts...and people often fall.


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## discobiscuits (Jan 3, 2010)

divya said:


> The two are not separate. The devil tempts...and people often fall.



see, I disagree. They are separate IMO. We are tempted from our own lusts. The devil just gets the credit if we fall. Satan is not all knowing and all seeing. We can fall w/ or w/o help from the devil.


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## divya (Jan 3, 2010)

1star said:


> see, I disagree. They are separate IMO. We are tempted from our own lusts. The devil just gets the credit if we fall. Satan is not all knowing and all seeing. We can fall w/ or w/o help from the devil.




Interesting...but as the devil tempted Jesus, I believe he also tempts us.  He is not all knowing or all seeing but he has observed humanity for ages.


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## discobiscuits (Jan 4, 2010)

divya said:


> Interesting...but as the devil tempted Jesus, I believe he also tempts us.  He is not all knowing or all seeing but he has observed humanity for ages.



i agree he or his demons do tempt us. but not all the time. sometimes they are no where around and it is all our own doing. I say this based on:


> James 1:14
> But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.


 I don't see the devil in there anywhere. Just my opinion.     ★


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## CoilyFields (Jan 4, 2010)

I pray for him and his family. I do believe that he did the right thing by stepping down. When you are in a position of leadership you must be blameless. Though the scripture says bishop, I do believe it applies to all church leaders. Yes we all sin, but a leader should be at a maturity level in Christ where s/he is eating meat and not drinking milk anymore. Much like there would be something wrong if a 40 year old man is just as unstable as a 18 year old boy. 

You can cause a whole church to stumble by your actions. Most pastors that I hear talking about their sins talk about what they have overcome...which is helpful. But I do not think its in the Churchs best interest for the pastor to tell the congregation that he still struggles with adultery or stealing. The drug counselor should not still be an addict.

Because you must apply more of yourself to this higher calling of shepherding, i believe that all pastors should have a pastor to whom they are held accountable.

I appreciate that he did this tastefully and resigned before something was splashed all over the news/media. Now he has given himself and his family the privacy they need to reconcile and build what was torn down. He also must recieve help for this moral failure. It may be that later he is able to resume his position but I think it shows great integrity to admit you have failed and gracefully resign until those issues have been resolved. 

And this does not ONLY apply to pastors. All leaders in the church must be held accountable. There should not be a man or woman in a position in the church that is not held accountable for their actions. This doesnt mean that the church should be all up in yours but it does mean that you need to sit that sunday school teacher down who just cheated on her husband, or fire that musician who is running through the women in the choir etc.

Pastors are definately not perfect...this is the reason all pastors should have a pastor. But the bible calls us to stop drinking milk and eat meat.


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## divya (Jan 4, 2010)

1star said:


> i agree he or his demons do tempt us. but not all the time. sometimes they are no where around and it is all our own doing. I say this based on:
> I don't see the devil in there anywhere. Just my opinion.     ★



Understand your positionm but I would have to take more than one verse into consideration to draw that conclusion. Beyond that though, my statement was that the devil is busy in the church, and that is something I definitely believe to be true...


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## BeautifulFlower (Jan 4, 2010)

Nymphe said:


> *Titus 1:6* - An elder must be *blameless*. He must be the husband of one wife and have children who are believers and who are not accused of having wild lifestyles or of being rebellious.
> 
> If he is no longer blameless, he cannot remain an elder. He is doing the right thing because he is true to the Word.


 


AfriPrincess411 said:


> Actually, the Bible says something different:
> 
> James 3:1
> Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly
> ...


 


momi said:


> Exactly. There are responsibilities that go along with the title of an elder/leader. I am truly sorry this has happened, but I believe he has made the right decision.
> 
> As an aside, I am completely shocked and had no idea.



Thank you for sharing this scripture. People talk about not putting leaders on pedestals but the fact of the matter is your dealing with souls here. Your ministry in also in your lifestyle. People look to leaders for examples of integrity and learning how to walk practically with Christ. If a new believer sees their leader fall, they would think "If my pastor cant and he so close to God, how can I possibly do this?" Unfortunately this is reality.


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## Supergirl (Jan 5, 2010)

Oh gosh, I thought this thread was going to say he died. This is awful and I don't condone it at all, but I have to respect him for coming out with it open and honestly instead of shucking and jiving until "caught" like a lot of folks do.


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## discobiscuits (Jan 6, 2010)

Supergirl said:


> Oh gosh, *I thought this thread was going to say he died.* This is awful and I don't condone it at all, but I have to respect him for coming out with it open and honestly instead of shucking and jiving until "caught" like a lot of folks do.



so did it!   ita w/ him coming out before he was outed.


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