# The Most Burdened With Student Loans Are Women



## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

....especially Black women according to the article below.

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/arti...ng-women-the-most?utm_source=broadlytwitterus


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/arti...ng-women-the-most?utm_source=broadlytwitterus






WAGE GAP
*Crushing Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Women the Most*



by Gabby Bess
MAY 24 2017 7:50 PM





(LEFT) PHOTO BY B&J/(RIGHT) PHOTO BY JOVO JOVANOVIC VIA STOCKSY


Paying back tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt is a universally horrific experience, but it's worse for women.

As the price going to college has become simply unattainable, taking out student loans has become the norm. You and everyone else you know are in debt, and it sucks; sixty-eight percent of all students, nearly seven in 10, graduate with student loan debt. According to a new report by the American Association of University Women (AAUW), women are faring the worst.

The AAUW review found that women have to take out more student loans than men to pursue a degree: "44 percent of women enrolled in undergraduate programs take out loans compared to 39 percent of men." And women also graduate with more debt. On average, a woman with a bachelors degree will have $1,500 more in debt than a man.

Read more: The Wage Gap Is Real, and It's Costing Women $500,000

When race is accounted for, black students overall graduate with more debt on average than white students—and black women face the highest burden. Black women have $10,117 more in student loan debt than white men and $8,841 more in debt than white women. Black women also carry more debt than black men. "The typical black woman who graduated with a bachelor's degree in 2011-12 did so with about $29,000 in student loans while black men averaged $25,000 in student loans," according to the report.

In 2011-2012, over a third of black women who graduated with a bachelor's degree had more than $40,000 in student loans compared to 16 percent of Hispanic women, 10 percent of white women, and eight percent of Asian women. Overall, Asian students graduate with the lowest debt, according to the report, with an average of $11,000 dollars in student loans.

Women don't just face higher amounts of student loan debt because women are attending college at a higher rate than men. According to the report, 64 percent of student loan debt is held by women, which is a figure disproportionate to their enrollment level.

The report attributes this to several factors. The majority of students work while enrolled in school, and the gender pay gap could mean that women students, particularly women of color, are earning less and have to take out more loans and are less likely to make payments toward their loans while they're in school. And students of color typically have less financial support: "The typical white family has 16 times the accrued wealth of the typical black family in the United States," according to the report.

Over a third of black women who graduated with a bachelor's degree had more than $40,000 in student loans compared to 16 percent of Hispanic women, 10 percent of white women, and 8 percent of Asian women.
The report also notes that nontraditional students—like students who have children—are largely women or people of color. These students face the additional financial cost of childcare. For them, student loan debt at graduation is, on average, $26,600 versus $19,100 for students without children.

After graduation, women remain in debt longer than men, too. "This means that in addition to taking on larger initial loans, women also pay more on their loans during repayment as interest accrues," the report notes.

Black women and Latina women lag the furthest behind: "Black women and Hispanic women paid off only about 12 percent and 18 percent of their debt in that three-year period, respectively, compared to 33 percent and 60 percent of white and Asian women." 

Again, the report suggests, the gender pay gap is an obvious factor preventing women, particularly women of color, from accessing the money need it to pay off their educational debt. The study found that a four-year degree yielded a 75 percent pay increase for men, while it only boosted women's earnings by 66 percent. Fighting to close the wage gap would go a long way toward making the opportunity cost of a college degree equal—and fighting to reduce the cost of tuition, or eliminate it entirely, would do us all one better.


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 25, 2017)

well we have higher levels of education too right? This should not surprise anyone.


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## GeorginaSparks (May 25, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> well we have higher levels of education too right? This should not surprise anyone.


what i came to say


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## UniquelyDivine (May 25, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> well we have higher levels of education too right? This should not surprise anyone.



Yep! All the black women I know that are burdened with student debt have graduate or doctorate degrees.


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## Daernyris (May 25, 2017)

This is the reason why generational wealth is so important, it would help alleviate the need for debt just to achieve an education/higher standard of living.  The increased salary is sometimes negated by the monthly payments of the loans. 

Student loans are a beast and I'm speaking from first hand experience


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## Miss617 (May 25, 2017)

This doesn't surprise me. I regret taking out so much in loans, it seriously depresses me.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

Ladies don't get mad. This is a just a discussion between ourselves but I saw this article on a black male forum and many of the male posters felt that BW took out loan unnecessarily for soft programs that did not provide higher pay down the road (Social sciences, liberal sciences, etc...) instead of technical degrees/hard sciences (engineering, etc...).

In your circle, do the BW you know properly plan for college/uni, do you think their post-secondary is well thought out? Also how many apply for scholarships/grants?


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## Miss617 (May 25, 2017)

@larry3344 I actually don't disagree with that, at least speaking from my own experience. I went to school for journalism and English - not exactly high-paying fields. However, I think the greater issue here is that girls aren't generally encouraged to study STEM and are steered more towards liberal arts, teaching, etc.

I went to a college prep school, but loans and financing higher education were not really discussed. I got a scholarship through my school and appealed for more money - a measly $2,000. A drop in the bucket because I went to a private university. I would also note here that because my high school was so prestigious, we weren't really encouraged to do something like go to a community college first and transfer to a four year college after that. It was pretty much frowned upon.

I didn't really think about my post-grad plans until the last year or so... and I graduated in 2012. I am planning to go to grad school, but I plan to keep loans to a minimum, if not avoid them altogether. I'd rather pay out of pocket and bust my hump researching scholarships than add to my current debt.

I have more thoughts but I'm at work so I may have to come back to this.


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## GeorginaSparks (May 25, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> Ladies don't get mad. This is a just a discussion between ourselves but I saw this article on a black male forum and many of the male posters felt that BW took out loan unnecessarily for soft programs that did not provide higher pay down the road (Social sciences, liberal sciences, etc...) instead of technical degrees/hard sciences (engineering, etc...).
> 
> In your circle, do the BW you know properly plan for college/uni, do you think their post-secondary is well thought out? Also how many apply for scholarships/grants?


and what types of degrees do those men have if any at all? do they provide advice to their female friends and family isnt of just discussing it between themselves? Just curious. Could you ask them please?


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

@GeorginaSparks 
http://www.thecoli.com/threads/crus...k-women-with-the-highest-burden.541444/page-3


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

@GeorginaSparks

I do think that anything we can use to have BW live better lives no matter the source or if it hurts our ego is necessary or we risk being our own hypeman. I think there may be some merit to what is said...aside from the insults and berating.

I have noticed an unusual amount of BW in Nursing/Psychology programs with no plans on pursuing a masters/work in academia racking up loans just to work a dead end job. Lack of large network and internship can render these degrees useless.

I heard of the black girl program for coding. It would ne nice to have a funds to help black women/girls offset their loans and direct them to technical degrees.


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## GeorginaSparks (May 25, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> @GeorginaSparks
> http://www.thecoli.com/threads/crus...k-women-with-the-highest-burden.541444/page-3


im not clicking on the link but coli? those are the most ignorant, uneducated black men ever who follow every single word from Tommy Sotomayor.


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 25, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> @GeorginaSparks
> 
> I do think that anything we can use to have BW live better lives no matter the source or if it hurts our ego is necessary or we risk being our own hypeman. I think there may be some merit to what is said...aside from the insults and berating.
> 
> ...


Ummmm I'd have to respectfully disagree. Nursing does not lead to a dead end job nor is lack of networking and internships in the nursing field renders it useless. Who told you that? lol. IMO its the one of the best degrees you can get on the cheap for only a two year degree with room for advancement on your own time....Nursing is only useless if you cant pass the boards, you're incompetent and have no business taking care of patients, or let your license go inactive for X amount of time and try to get it reinstated. 


 The crappy pay/ dead end nursing job has allowed me to pay off almost all $85k of my loans in two years.... $65k of which was from my biology degree that is indeed useless. With just my BSN, I out earn some nurses who hold a masters degree that work in academia and/or entry level salaried General NP's .  Master's prepared RN's that teach in academia (and even some PhD nurses who arent tenured) make about $60k and still have to work a few shifts at the bedside to make up for the lost income from not being at the bedside.  

The students they teach will out earn them no sooner than they graduate and get their first bedside job.  The flip side is that they don't have to work at the bedside, usually have better hours,  and don't deal with some of the nonsense I do on a daily basis. But its your choice of what you can and cant tolerate which is why I chose this field. There's so much you can do with it, especially with entrepreneurial roles. Mane Choice CEO, and Mielle Organics CEO are both RN's. 

I will always advocate and root for those that chose to go to CRNA, NP,  Dentistry, Medical school and do the damn thing. ALWAYS! But if basic ass nursing with is all someone want's to do, I will tell them how to go about it the best way I  can. It is not all back breaking and ass wiping.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

GeorginaSparks said:


> im not clicking on the link but coli? those are the most ignorant, uneducated black men ever who follow every single word from Tommy Sotomayor.


Oh I agree... But I am more so talking about the article and what inspired this thread.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> Ummmm I'd have to respectfully disagree. Nursing does not lead to a dead end job nor is lack of networking and internships in the nursing field renders it useless. Who told you that? lol. IMO its the one of the best degrees you can get on the cheap for only a two year degree with room for advancement on your own time....Nursing is only useless if you cant pass the boards, you're incompetent and have no business taking care of patients, or let your license go inactive for X amount of time and try to get it reinstated.
> 
> 
> The crappy pay/ dead end nursing job has allowed me to pay off almost all $85k of my loans in two years.... $65k of which was from my biology degree that is indeed useless. With just my BSN, I out earn some nurses who hold a masters degree that work in academia and/or entry level salaried General NP's .  Master's prepared RN's that teach in academia (and even some PhD nurses who arent tenured) make about $60k and still have to work a few shifts at the bedside to make up for the lost income from not being at the bedside.
> ...


I meant to separate nursing from the dead end category. You are right it is a very useful degree. I just meant an overabundance of black women in nursing as opposed to other sciences.

And you made my point how can we encourage each other to mitigate the cost of pursuing education and hone in on specialized skills that sets us apart despite the discrimination that we receive in the workplace.


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 25, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> I meant to separate nursing from the dead end category. You are right it is a very useful degree. I just meant an overabundance of black women in nursing as opposed to other sciences.
> 
> And you made my point how can we encourage each other to mitigate the cost of pursuing education and hone in on specialized skills that sets us apart despite the discrimination that we receive in the workplace.


but why is that a bad thing?


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

@Femmefatal1981 can you explain?

I don't think it is a bad thing to go into nursing and become a RN. But it would be nice to see an equal ineterests in other science fields that BW may have not considered.

There is so much untapped fields out there in science/technology where we are severely underrepresented and if we are presented options how do we know that is our only calling.

I know so many who went to nursing just cause their mother was nurse, no passion of the field and they had no idea what else they can do with it.

I look at this way...we need valuable skills to set us apart...I dont think it is enough to push BW to go to school just for the sake of claiming they have a degree. And to add insult to injury rack up a crazy amount of debt just to end up severely underpaid which is limits our mobility or aspirations.

My question is how can we game the system and make it work for us instead of against us.

Highly spécialized Skills will be the wave of the future and deeper understanding of Tech/science will be mandatory. So how can we position the new generation to lessen their debt and steer them to jobs that can propel their income/career despite discrimination in the workplace and not feel tied to a job they hate because they got a noose around their neck aka Student loans not to mention living expenses.


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 25, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> but why is that a bad thing?


right? i went to a STEM honors high school and hated it! I still side eye the hell out of my gram for making me go there. The only thing i wish i would have taken advantage of there was the electrical engineering program that they had. I did the biochemical tech program which was wack AF.  I could have been a certified electrician 3 months after graduating working under Frey Electric's apprenticeship they had back in the day  . that def would have been my side hustle to this day


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 25, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> @Femmefatal1981 can you explain?
> 
> I don't think it is a bad thing to go into nursing and become a RN. But it would be nice to see an equal ineterests in other science fields that BW may have not considered.
> 
> ...


 I look it as it like this:  work life balance is a high priority for many black women. What other science career give you that? That is why many women in general avoid those types of careers. We know they exist. We just have no desire to work those types of hours.


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 25, 2017)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> right? i went to a STEM honors high school and hated it! I still side eye the hell out of my gram for making me go there. The only thing i wish i would have taken advantage of there was the electrical engineering program that they had. I did the biochemical tech program which was wack AF.  I could have been a certified electrician 3 months after graduating working under Frey Electric's apprenticeship they had back in the day  . that def would have been my side hustle to this day


My oldest daughter is an artist.  Yeah I could press STEM but I can already see that my baby is a creative who happens to love math, not a mathematician who happens to be creative. So while she will take all those advanced math classes because she is good at it when she tells me that she plans to major in Art History or English I'm not going to stop her. Degrees what you make of them and she will have the network she needs to be successful at whatever she does. And her first degree is on me...2nd one too if she gets scholarships.


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 25, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> I look it as it like this:  work life balance is a high priority for many black women. What other science career give you that? That is why many women in general avoid those types of careers. We know they exist. We just have no desire to work those types of hours.


Seriously i complain about working 3 days a week But thats a big reason why I haven't gone into administration, management, or make it a huge priority to go back to school right away. I do not want to be at work M-F 9-5 with only 2 days off. Ive never worked a schedule like that in my life and i don't ever intend to. Can not compute.  Give me my  three 12's with 6 days off in between to do whatever the hell i want.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

@Femmefatal1981 Has your daughter considered combining her creative side with a technical degree.


I.e/ UX design/ Web design development/ Corporate/media communications etc....

Also a lot of arts program are very expensive...has she considered scholarahipz/grants that can offset her tuition costs?


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 25, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> @Femmefatal1981 As your daughter considered combining her creative side with a technical degree


She's in 4th grade, lol. But we are always down to nurture any and all talents she may have. She loves tech too her favorite thing right now is using computer programs to design things to be printed on her schools 3-d printer. So tech is likely in her future too but we we won't down whatever she decides to study as long as she has a plan.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

@Femmefatal1981 oh wow you are way ahead of the game then. Lol...no i see what you are saying. 

And no i dont look down in nursing it is a great profession which pays well.


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## Miss617 (May 25, 2017)

Good for you for planning ahead @Femmefatal1981. I wish my mother had done that with us. Ah well. When you know better, you do better, right?


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 25, 2017)

Miss617 said:


> Good for you for planning ahead @Femmefatal1981. I wish my mother had done that with us. Ah well. When you know better, you do better, right?


Exactly. My mom let me do whatever and as a result I wasted a lot of time, but she thought she was doing the right thing.


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## Miss617 (May 25, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> Exactly. My mom let me do whatever and as a result I wasted a lot of time, but she thought she was doing the right thing.



Same. My mom didn't go to college, so we kind of had to figure it out on our own. I don't want my son to go through what I'm going through, so I plan to help him explore all of his options and have started saving money for his tuition.


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 25, 2017)

Miss617 said:


> Same. My mom didn't go to college, so we kind of had to figure it out on our own. I don't want my son to go through what I'm going through, so I plan to help him explore all of his options and have started saving money for his tuition.


Same. Which prob attributes to the ridiculous amount of loans women have taken out. I would assume that most of them were first gen college graduates. I know i was. My gram or mom didnt know a thing about tuition costs, loans, grants, scholarships, etc.


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## naijamerican (May 25, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> My oldest daughter is an artist.  Yeah I could press STEM but I can already see that my baby is a creative who happens to love math, not a mathematician who happens to be creative. So while she will take all those advanced math classes because she is good at it when she tells me that she plans to major in Art History or English I'm not going to stop her. Degrees what you make of them and she will have the network she needs to be successful at whatever she does. And her first degree is on me...2nd one too if she gets scholarships.


I admire your approach and wanted to say that what you said about the first degree being covered by you is the same attitude my parents adopted. I do have loans from undergrad, but my parents felt that undergrad was on them, and grad was on me. I have a lot of graduate school loans and it stresses me out. It seriously compromises my quality of life. However, I will be applying for a loan repayment program that, if I were to get in, would cover about half of my loans because of my line of work. I've made some career moves that, by the grace of God, will make me a competitive applicant.

My experience with student loans has truly changed my thinking about the importance of generational wealth. I don't want my children to be saddled by such debt. And the sad thing is that I have friends whose debt is twice, thrice that of mine. I cannot. This society does not respect the pursuit of education but that's a story for another day. -_-


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## Evolving78 (May 25, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> My oldest daughter is an artist.  Yeah I could press STEM but I can already see that my baby is a creative who happens to love math, not a mathematician who happens to be creative. So while she will take all those advanced math classes because she is good at it when she tells me that she plans to major in Art History or English I'm not going to stop her. Degrees what you make of them and she will have the network she needs to be successful at whatever she does. And her first degree is on me...2nd one too if she gets scholarships.


This is my daughter. She likes math, and she is an artist. She wants to stick to the arts as a career. She just completed a mediocre art program.  She needs something more advanced. Plus, she wants to start drawing on the computer. I need to invest in whatever software she needs. I need to see if the local college has a summer art program. She loves to draw anime, and would like to teach others when she grows up.  I don't know where, or who I can get some guidance from. 
Oh they have a STREAM program at the college. I think I can swing it. It's a week program and $138. But I need to make sure it would be a waste of our time again... I have her in gymnastics too.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

http://college.usatoday.com/2017/03/28/student-loan-debt-women/


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## Miss617 (May 25, 2017)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> Same. Which prob attributes to the ridiculous amount of loans women have taken out. I would assume that most of them were first gen college graduates. I know i was. My gram or mom didnt know a thing about tuition costs, loans, grants, scholarships, etc.



I completely agree. I don't know much about my grandmother, but if she had gone to college, it would have been a completely different time, and in the South at that. My mom literally told me, "I didn't help your sister, so I won't be helping you." She cosigned my loans and took out a parent loan, but guess who's paying that back on top of her own federal and private loans? My loans by themselves I could handle, but the parent loan is the killer.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-...n-3-years-2017-3?international=true&r=US&IR=T


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 25, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> http://college.usatoday.com/2017/03/28/student-loan-debt-women/


27-28k is nothing in student loans...


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

https://www.google.ca/amp/fox4kc.co...-two-thirds-of-nations-student-loan-debt/amp/


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 25, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> http://www.businessinsider.com/how-...n-3-years-2017-3?international=true&r=US&IR=T


where the heck did she go to school!!!!


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> 27-28k is nothing in student loans...


Ya but have you seen some of these degrees? Theatre and french? What did she expect to do with that?


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.timei.../24/women-student-loan-debt-study/?source=dam


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## Evolving78 (May 25, 2017)

Miss617 said:


> I completely agree. I don't know much about my grandmother, but if she had gone to college, it would have been a completely different time, and in the South at that. My mom literally told me, "I didn't help your sister, so I won't be helping you." She cosigned my loans and took out a parent loan, but guess who's paying that back on top of her own federal and private loans? My loans by themselves I could handle, but the parent loan is the killer.


I will be paying forever... I don't understand how black folks push their kids to go to college, but nobody wants to pay for it! Then wanna have the nerve to brag that your kid is going, or they graduated...


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## Covagirlm (May 25, 2017)

shortdub78 said:


> I will be paying forever... I don't understand how black folks push their kids to go to college, but nobody wants to pay for it! Then wanna have the nerve to brag that your kid is going, or they graduated...



A lot of black folks do not have parents that could afford to pay for college.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

@shortdub78 which is why I am saying BW are being pushed to get degrees but many are BS degrees that they cannot translate into the workplace or they dont know how to leverage into a career.

You should not be racking an inordinate amount of debt for a liberal science degree. You want an arts degree get a diploma that you can pay off quicly and get technical certs. 

Get your company to fund your graduate program/post graduate. People need to know what their options before the drink the koolaid of higher education. 

And what a waste if you dont even end up using what you went to school for in the first place.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

We are already an extremely disenfranchised group we need to pick more wisely. We are taking a debt load that is suffocating us.


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## Miss617 (May 25, 2017)

shortdub78 said:


> I will be paying forever... I don't understand how black folks push their kids to go to college, but nobody wants to pay for it! Then wanna have the nerve to brag that your kid is going, or they graduated...



I'm trying to have my federal and private loans paid off within the next three years. The parent loan, IDK. Just the thought of it makes me hyperventilate. 

It's been talked about here before, but we need to let our kids know that there are other options. As I mentioned in a PP, do CC first and transfer. Go to a vocational school, learn a trade, something. If parents are unwilling/unable to help pay for school, they (and I'm speaking for myself as a mom as well) need to help the children think of alternatives. We aren't doing them any favors by not having a real discussion about the cost of college and how it can impact your future if you have to decide between rent and a loan payment.


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## Evolving78 (May 25, 2017)

Covagirlm said:


> A lot of black folks do not have parents that could afford to pay for college.


Very true. That's why we gotta learn how to operate from a different angle. They were discussing this on News One this morning concerning HBCU alumni not donating enough. I think someone that is knowledgeable would be a great asset to the community, to teach parents about savings, grants, and scholarships. And deciding if a certificate is better, than a degree. 
My parents didn't save for me, but I couldn't stay at home and work either. I had to be in school. We didn't really have a discussion about college. I just knew I had to go! lol that's terrible! And both of my parents are college educated.


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 25, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> Ya but have you seen some of these degrees? Theatre and french? What did she expect to do with that?


I was just having a convo with @Covagirlm about this. Unless you come from an extremely well to do family, #dontdothis lol. My friend that used to cheerlead with me majored in Dance Therapy but guess what? Her dad is beyond disgustingly loaded and she can do that. She went to school to pursue a damn hobby. Regular folks like myself?...i wouldnt recommend it unless you have a well thought out plan with connects flowing from every oriface of your body lol.


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## larry3344 (May 25, 2017)

@BillsBackerz67 Exactly my point. Black children should be getting technical degrees more so than anyone but we do the extreme opposite.

I am a creative as well but a good middleroad compromise would be to combine a creative major with a technical skill that is highly in demand in the current marketplace.


This is also why I cringe at these minority geared bootcamps because it is hald ass solution. Many of these hard science/technically inclined programs require financial/emotional support which many black children dont get sufficiently if at all.


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## naijamerican (May 25, 2017)

@larry3344 and @BillsBackerz67, you ladies are dropping knowledge all up and through this thread! I hope that LHCF members who are in college heed what you're saying. I love the arts and respect those who have the talent and persistence to pursue it as a profession, but I also believe that if that's the road you decide to go down, please consider the short and long term consequences of acquiring student loan debt for what is frequently a low-paying career. The only reason I am able to reconcile myself to the realities of my debt is that my income will rise with time and I have opportunities that can repay them for me.


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## DarkJoy (May 25, 2017)

I believe this article only notes these debts for undergrad. grad school debt is astronomical.

as far as what we choose to study  that's a toughie. depending on several factors including,  SES, 1st gen college student status (we still have huge numbers where no one in the fam was exposed to college) and whether or not they knew of or even had resources that exposed the student to the same old same old determines everything.

Sadly, in most of our school systems where blacks dominate population-wise none of these things exist... however, lets see what doors the millenial's children find when they come of age since they will be exposed to so much more via any connected device.



larry3344 said:


> @shortdub78 which is why I am saying BW are being pushed to get degrees but many are BS degrees that they cannot translate into the workplace or they dont know how to leverage into a career.
> 
> You should not be racking an inordinate amount of debt for a liberal science degree. You want an arts degree get a diploma that you can pay off quicly and get technical certs.
> 
> ...


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 26, 2017)

DarkJoy said:


> I believe this article only notes these debts for undergrad. *grad school debt is astronomical.*
> 
> as far as what we choose to study  that's a toughie. depending on several factors including,  SES, 1st gen college student status (we still have huge numbers where no one in the fam was exposed to college) and whether or not they knew of or even had resources that exposed the student to the same old same old determines everything.
> 
> Sadly, in most of our school systems where blacks dominate population-wise none of these things exist... however, lets see what doors the millenial's children find when they come of age since they will be exposed to so much more via any connected device.



Yep I know people say that tuition costs shouldn't defer you from pursuing your dreams but Im really at a loss as to what to what I want to do. I really want to go to CRNA school but Im looking at $130,000-$175,000 in grad school debt after its all said and done.  Its not the tuition costs thats the problem its the 3 years of not working full time that really puts you in the hole. even the bare minimum of living on $25k will result in taking out a $75k loan just for COL. Ive even thought about a side hustle but the program is so demanding that its hard to even factor in time for that. 

I really do not want to go through this BS AGAIN lol. At this point my best option is to save up and go to school when Im 40. There are hospitals that do pay loans back but i also dont want to be stuck somewhere for years because of an obligation i owe them. Decisions, decisions.


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## larry3344 (May 26, 2017)

@BillsBackerz67 i am going through tne same thing. Check to see how long you have to work for a company. It might not be as long as you think and end up being just enough time to finush your degree. Try to see if you can start by doing online classes as well instead of jumping into in class studies.

There are options just need to seek it out.


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## FelaShrine (May 26, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> @GeorginaSparks
> 
> I do think that anything we can use to have BW live better lives no matter the source or if it hurts our ego is necessary or we risk being our own hypeman. I think there may be some merit to what is said...aside from the insults and berating.
> 
> I have noticed an unusual amount of BW in Nursing/Psychology programs with no plans on pursuing a masters/work in academia racking up loans just to work a dead end job..



BSN usually leads to great positions in hospital. Hardly a dead end job and shouldn't be compared to Psych imo which most def requires more education to be useful


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 26, 2017)

130-175k...I think if I were 21-23 it would be a no brainer. I would live at home, drive a paid off car, etc. But I am almost 40 and adding that much debt to my life knowing that I have to send a kid to college in 7-8 yrs would require a foolproof repayment plan. Like I would have to be able to get like 1/4-1/2 forgiven or paid for by my employer + we would have to live on dh's salary for 2 yrs while I put every dime I made on the remainder. I want a PhD but only if it is darn near free.


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## DarkJoy (May 26, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> 130-175k...I think if I were 21-23 it would be a no brainer. I would live at home, drive a paid off car, etc. But I am almost 40 and *adding that much debt to my life knowing that I have to send a kid to college in 7-8 yrs *would require a foolproof repayment plan. Like I would have to be able to get like 1/4-1/2 forgiven or paid for by my employer + we would have to live on dh's salary for 2 yrs while I put every dime I made on the remainder. I want a PhD but only if it is darn near free.


im in the same age group and same with the kiddo. plus add the extreme need to save or ramp up retirement on top of kids tuition, plus the possible loan debt? nah.... i wont be doing it unless i can get some type of scholarship or fellowship thing going.


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 26, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> @BillsBackerz67 i am going through tne same thing. Check to see how long you have to work for a company. It might not be as long as you think and end up being just enough time to finush your degree. Try to see if you can start by doing online classes as well instead of jumping into in class studies.
> 
> There are options just need to seek it out.


CRNA DNP programs are extremely rigorous, there is no part time or taking online courses leading up to school to knock credits off. Its a terminal degree program. You're either a FT student or ur not in the program. There is no in between.

My best bet is to email the schools that im interested in to see what types of offers were allotted to the students post grad. I know Baylor Hospital system does pay back some of all of  loans and recruits CRNA's but not sure what the stipulations are surrounding it.


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 26, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> 130-175k...I think if I were 21-23 it would be a no brainer. I would live at home, drive a paid off car, etc. But I am almost 40 and adding that much debt to my life knowing that I have to send a kid to college in 7-8 yrs would require a foolproof repayment plan. Like I would have to be able to get like 1/4-1/2 forgiven or paid for by my employer + we would have to live on dh's salary for 2 yrs while I put every dime I made on the remainder. I want a PhD but only if it is darn near free.


The good news is kids wont be a factor so i dont have to worry about that aspect...and my car is paid for.  I even considered moving back to Buffalo and staying with my mom for free but i did the math and id actually be out $50,000 more because UB's Tuition is higher 

Im better off going to school in Texas and living on my own  I love school so regardless if I went next year vs when Im 40 doesnt factor in my decision making at all.  But if this was medical school? Nope not going unless i get a free ride down to my rent and car being paid for! Otherwise would not see any return on my investment until im 50+ years old. No thank you. 

As of now, I can live pretty comfortably on the salary im currently making or even working part time. It's a huge relief  knowing that I dont have to rush going back to school in hopes of a larger salary. If not school maybe real estate license, a small business, or a different masters program thats cheaper? We'll see.


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 26, 2017)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> The good news is kids wont be a factor so i dont have to worry about that aspect...and my car is paid for.  I even considered moving back to Buffalo and staying with my mom for free but i did the math and id actually be out $50,000 more because UB's Tuition is higher
> 
> Im better off going to school in Texas and living on my own  I love school so regardless if I went next year vs when Im 40 doesnt factor in my decision making at all.  But if this was medical school? Nope not going unless i get a free ride down to my rent and car being paid for! Otherwise would not see any return on my investment until im 50+ years old. No thank you.
> 
> As of now, I can live pretty comfortably on the salary im currently making or even working part time. It's a huge relief  knowing that I dont have to rush going back to school in hopes of a larger salary. If not school maybe real estate license, a small business, or a different masters program thats cheaper? We'll see.


True you could always go into administration even though I know you don't want to do 9-5. With this aging population nursing is going to open so many doors that are not so obvious today.


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 26, 2017)

DarkJoy said:


> im in the same age group and same with the kiddo. plus add the extreme need to save or ramp up retirement on top of kids tuition, plus the possible loan debt? nah.... i wont be doing it unless i can get some type of scholarship or fellowship thing going.


Yeah my masters program is cheap, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.


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## FemmeCreole (May 26, 2017)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> well we have higher levels of education too right? This should not surprise anyone.


Yep. That's what I was about to post.


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## FemmeCreole (May 26, 2017)

I had a full free ride for undergrad but now?... just finished year one and I'm almost 40k deep in loans now and I'm have 2 more years to go. And that's after paying 11k out of pocket. (That figure includes the summer session in starting next week).

I'm going to start something for my DD in a couple weeks. Maybe a 529 plan or... still researching. I want her to be set. I'm not really worried about repaying the loans but it's like a cloud over my head.


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## gimbap (May 26, 2017)

I don't know too many people without student loans. I do wish I had more guidance at 17/18 when it came to financial aid/finances in general. My mom apologizes for this all the time, but she didn't know any better either. At this point all I can do is make my payments and make sure my future kids don't have loans


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## Daernyris (May 26, 2017)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> Yep I know people say that tuition costs shouldn't defer you from pursuing your dreams but Im really at a loss as to what to what I want to do. I really want to go to CRNA school but Im looking at $130,000-$175,000 in grad school debt after its all said and done.  Its not the tuition costs thats the problem its the 3 years of not working full time that really puts you in the hole. even the bare minimum of living on $25k will result in taking out a $75k loan just for COL. Ive even thought about a side hustle but the program is so demanding that its hard to even factor in time for that.
> 
> I really do not want to go through this BS AGAIN lol. At this point my best option is to save up and go to school when Im 40. There are hospitals that do pay loans back but i also dont want to be stuck somewhere for years because of an obligation i owe them. Decisions, decisions.


This is where I am currently, I want to be a pharmacist.  I don't; however, want to incur $100,000+ in student debt.  I also know that if I don't do it I will regret not making moves in that direction.  I'm 42 and the rigors of working at a 1,000 bed hospital is killing my body.  I like working two days a week having 5 off, unless I sign up for extra which is rare, I like my salary.  But the repeated wear and tear on my body  ain't bueno.  I'm just going to have to figure it out and also work it out to get myself in the best spot going forward into my golden years.


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## FelaShrine (May 26, 2017)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> The good news is kids wont be a factor so i dont have to worry about that aspect...and my car is paid for.  *I even considered moving back to Buffalo and staying with my mom for free but i did the math and id actually be out $50,000 more because UB's Tuition is higher *
> .



State schools and city colleges in NY are supposed to be free this coming Sept. You might wanna consider it


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## FelaShrine (May 26, 2017)

Daernyris said:


> This is where I am currently, I want to be a pharmacist.  I don't; however, want to incur $100,000+ in student debt.  I also know that if I don't do it I will regret not making moves in that direction.  I'm 42 and the rigors of working at a 1,000 bed hospital is killing my body.  I like working two days a week having 5 off, unless I sign up for extra which is rare, I like my salary.  But the repeated wear and teat on my body  ain't bueno.  I'm just going to have to figure it out and also work it out to get myself in the best spot going forward into my golden years.



Have you thought of NP?


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## Christina Dior (May 26, 2017)

Lawd folks still think cna and rn's are the same


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## Daernyris (May 26, 2017)

FelaShrine said:


> Have you thought of NP?


No, I'm not a nurse I work in MRI.  I meant to include that in my original post


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## PJaye (May 26, 2017)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> Yep I know people say that tuition costs shouldn't defer you from pursuing your dreams but Im really at a loss as to what to what I want to do. I really want to go to CRNA school but Im looking at $130,000-$175,000 in grad school debt after its all said and done.  Its not the tuition costs thats the problem its the 3 years of not working full time that really puts you in the hole. even the bare minimum of living on $25k will result in taking out a $75k loan just for COL. Ive even thought about a side hustle but the program is so demanding that its hard to even factor in time for that.
> 
> I really do not want to go through this BS AGAIN lol. *At this point my best option is to save up and go to school when Im 40. *There are hospitals that do pay loans back but i also dont want to be stuck somewhere for years because of an obligation i owe them. Decisions, decisions.



Question:  Are older people welcomed into nursing programs?  I ask because I was thinking of pursuing nursing as a third career now that my sons are grown and settled.  I'm old, very old, and assumed that I would finish a program only to need a nurse of my own.  Given your experience and expertise, do you think nursing would be a viable option of this ol' hag?


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## Froreal3 (May 26, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> We are already an extremely disenfranchised group we need to pick more wisely. We are taking a debt load that is suffocating us.


I 100% agree. Luckily I had a 100% tuition scholarship for my graduate degree. With my undergrad, I wasn't so lucky. I didn't understand much about taking out student loans etc. I did go to my city university system at first which was very inexpensive, but for personal reasons, I had to leave. By the time I wen back to school, I had a family, so I went online and the first online program I went to was for profit and not that inexpensive. I wised up afterward, but not before I racked up a lot of debt. I also was living off loans (which was a bad idea that no one counseled me on). Now I counsel younger college aged people on what to do and what not to do. Luckily my job can support my student loans without sacrificing my quality of life. Also due to my job, I will have a large sum of my loan forgiven after a few years, which is part of why I chose it.  If I had graduate loans though, I'd be jacked up.


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## Froreal3 (May 26, 2017)

naijamerican said:


> @larry3344 and @BillsBackerz67, you ladies are dropping knowledge all up and through this thread! I hope that LHCF members who are in college heed what you're saying. I love the arts and respect those who have the talent and persistence to pursue it as a profession, but I also believe that if that's the road you decide to go down, please consider the short and long term consequences of acquiring student loan debt for what is frequently a low-paying career. *The only reason I am able to reconcile myself to the realities of my debt is that my income will rise with time and I have opportunities that can repay them for me.*



Exactly why I didn't mind getting my degree(s).


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 26, 2017)

FelaShrine said:


> State schools and city colleges in NY are supposed to be free this coming Sept. You might wanna consider it


Thanks but Im not eligible. Its only for undergraduate students. Not for those who already graduated from a SUNY school which i did.


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 26, 2017)

PJaye said:


> Question:  Are older people welcomed into nursing programs?  I ask because I was thinking of pursuing nursing as a third career now that my sons are grown and settled.  I'm old, very old, and assumed that I would finish a program only to need a nurse of my own.  Given your experience and expertise, do you think nursing would be a viable option of this ol' hag?


yes there are always older students in nursing programs! Since you are older i would look into specialities that wont take a toll on your body. Icu, subacute rehab, and stepdown patients are HEAVY. For that reason after after i turn 40 you will not catch me at the bedside full time or even part time unless im literally out of options.


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## bubbles12345 (May 26, 2017)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> yes there are always older students in nursing programs! Since you are older i would look into specialities that wont take a toll on your body. Icu, subacute rehab, and stepdown patients are HEAVY. For that reason after after i turn 40 you will not catch me at the bedside full time or even part time unless im literally out of options.




This is slightly oT, but what exactly is it about nursing that takes a toll on your body overtime?


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## FelaShrine (May 26, 2017)

PJaye said:


> Question:  Are older people welcomed into nursing programs?  I ask because I was thinking of pursuing nursing as a third career now that my sons are grown and settled.  I'm old, very old, and assumed that I would finish a program only to need a nurse of my own.  Given your experience and expertise, do you think nursing would be a viable option of this ol' hag?




 Making yourself sound like Methuselah like we didnt see your arse when you were Hair of the month. Go away


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## PJaye (May 26, 2017)

BillsBackerz67 said:


> yes there are always older students in nursing programs! Since you are older i would look into specialities that wont take a toll on your body. Icu, subacute rehab, and stepdown patients are HEAVY. For that reason after after i turn 40 you will not catch me at the bedside full time or even part time unless im literally out of options.



Thank you for your input and advice, I will definitely keep them in mind.  I really appreciate you. 



FelaShrine said:


> Making yourself sound like Methuselah like we didnt see your arse when you were Hair of the month. Go away



You just had to spoil things for me with your elephant memory.  You're just like my eldest sister: "If you're an old hag, then what am I?"  Spoil sports, the both of youse.


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## BillsBackerz67 (May 26, 2017)

bubbles12345 said:


> This is slightly oT, but what exactly is it about nursing that takes a toll on your body overtime?


Constant turning and positioning, holding people on one side, boosting, pushing beds, restraining crazy folks, incontinence...notice i didnt say lifting. Most patients are morbidly obese and cant move anything. Its a lot.


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## LostInAdream (May 26, 2017)

Daernyris said:


> This is where I am currently, I want to be a pharmacist.  I don't; however, want to incur $100,000+ in student debt.  I also know that if I don't do it I will regret not making moves in that direction.  I'm 42 and the rigors of working at a 1,000 bed hospital is killing my body.  I like working two days a week having 5 off, unless I sign up for extra which is rare, I like my salary.  But the repeated wear and tear on my body  ain't bueno.  I'm just going to have to figure it out and also work it out to get myself in the best spot going forward into my golden years.


Look into Walgreens. I know you're older so maybe a manager position or corporate job. They pay for employees to go to pharmacy school. It's a program you have to apply for and or by recommendation.

I was recommended by my store manager when I graduated high school. I was a photo tech/ costmetic/ pharmacy tech.


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## BEAUTYU2U (May 26, 2017)

Hold up....while we're dissing certain degrees. Let's dig a little deeper. A lot of students have the burden of helping back home....not home helping them, hence, taking out extra loans. And we all know BW are expected to shoulder such burdens moreso than BM, even as young adults.


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## tigereyes83 (May 27, 2017)

I graduated undergrad with about 23k in loans and my job paid 100% for my MBA  which is why I choose to work there over higher paying jobs when I first graduated. Took me about 2 1/2 years to pay off undergrad but I hustled my butt off. I worked side gigs every weekend and weekdays to get that loan down. Every extra penny was thrown at that loan. I compared myself to my cousin who has/had 60 k in debt. We went to the same school but she made choices to need more money.. Live on campus, meal plan etc.. When we both graduated she didn't want to do no side hustles but enjoy her off time which I get but she is now super stressed about the loans and it has hindered her in starting a family. 


We need to make better choices. If I would have known what I know now I would have went to community college first, know the difference between certain loan, repaid interest in school but I did not know better. Hopefully we can guide the next generation better if we are not burden and stressed out by our own loans.


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## BEAUTYU2U (May 27, 2017)

^ I think that's another huge factor. BW are more likely to be first generation college students than other groups. My parents couldn't understand my challenges or how to help. My older cousins mostly went on athletic scholarships. I figured it out as I went along. I did community college and came out with less than average debt.


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## larry3344 (May 27, 2017)

That is another point. Many people should consider community college over private unis/colleges. But prestige and.external pushes people down the rabbbit hole of debt.


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## gimbap (May 27, 2017)

larry3344 said:


> That is another point. Many people should consider community college over private unis/colleges. But prestige and.external pushes people down the rabbbit hole of debt.



Yeah. The need to get the "real college experience", going off to college freshman year and staying in the dorm, football games, etc


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## larry3344 (May 27, 2017)

gimbap said:


> Yeah. The need to get the "real college experience", going off to college freshman year and staying in the dorm, football games, etc


Unfortunately that is not experience that poor black families can afford. And perhaps needs to be gained some other way through more cost effective means.


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## DarkJoy (May 27, 2017)

we are expected to help moreso than black males? girl please.  you understated! the help really isnt expected from black men at all from what i see!

many of us go in debt muling for everybody 



BEAUTYU2U said:


> Hold up....while we're dissing certain degrees. Let's dig a little deeper. A lot of students have the burden of helping back home....not home helping them, hence, taking out extra loans. And we all know BW are expected to shoulder such burdens moreso than BM, even as young adults.


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## DarkJoy (May 27, 2017)

yea no..  everybody cant afford that full experience and just need to accept it. or accept 20 years of debt. if dorm life is really the goal then the poor student needs to apply for and receive 12343 scholarships for that experience.

and anyway, if the black kid is going to a PWI, idk how much of a great experience having them live 24/7 in a maybe only 1 bp for every 30 wp situation is gonna be.





larry3344 said:


> Unfortunately that is not experience that poor black families can afford. And perhaps needs to be gained some other way through more cost effective means.


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## BEAUTYU2U (May 27, 2017)

DarkJoy said:


> yea no..  everybody cant afford that full experience and just need to accept it. or accept 20 years of debt. if dorm life is really the goal then the poor student needs to apply for and receive 12343 scholarships for that experience.
> 
> and anyway, if the black kid is going to a PWI, idk how much of a great experience having them live 24/7 in a maybe only 1 bp for every 30 wp situation is gonna be.



Even at PWI, we segregate ourselves. There's always a "black" dorm or floor. I barely even interacted with WP at mine. It was awesome.


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## Daernyris (May 27, 2017)

DarkJoy said:


> we are expected to help moreso than black males? girl please.  you understated! the help really isnt expected from black men at all from what i see!
> 
> many of us go in debt muling for everybody


Which is one of the many/main reasons why I find myself in the predicament I'm in now.  I was in my mid thirties before I truly understood that I better start *MULING *and *CAPING *for self.  

I think its ingrained in us early that it's selfish to think about yourself first. Which is why so many of us are running on empty the vast majority of time.  I gave to and did for family, friends, men and was always arse out when it came for self.

The eight years I have left in my forties won't catch me slipping like I was in my twenties to mid thirties . 

 I've spent the past eight years building for self and don't feel bad not even a little bit.


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## DarkJoy (May 27, 2017)

BEAUTYU2U said:


> Even at PWI, we segregate ourselves. There's always a "black" dorm or floor. I barely even interacted with WP at mine. It was awesome.


thats an option but, at least for my kid, not going to be worth 20 years saddled to debt that cant be discharged unless death comes first.


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## dancinstallion (May 27, 2017)

gimbap said:


> Yeah. The need to get the "real college experience", going off to college freshman year and staying in the dorm, football games, etc





larry3344 said:


> Unfortunately that is not experience that poor black families can afford. And perhaps needs to be gained some other way through more cost effective means.



My niece just went to college and lives down the street from the university but she didnt want to go there because she says it is ghetto. she and her mother wanted her to have the college experience so they let her go to a university an hour away to live on campus. 

I told them about accumulating debt so early just to stay on campus. I also told them that in their state the first two years of college is free if she went to a community college, or free if she went to the university down the street and picked a certain major(she can always change majors). they said No and made every excuse for her to go to the other school. They dont even know how much she had to borrow to pay for everything. 
My niece said she doesnt care how much it costs even if it is 30k a year she just wants to live on campus.  and she wants to be an md.


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## BEAUTYU2U (May 27, 2017)

DarkJoy said:


> thats an option but, at least for my kid, not going to be worth 20 years saddled to debt that cant be discharged unless death comes first.



Oh I totally understand that part. I was just trying to dispell any myths that black students don't get that "community" at a PWI.


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## Royalq (May 27, 2017)

GeorginaSparks said:


> im not clicking on the link but coli? those are the most ignorant, uneducated black men ever who follow every single word from Tommy Sotomayor.


I used to frequent that site. Coli ain't ish. A bunch of ugly short nerdy bums who are terrified of approaching women yet want the baddest IG girls. More than 3/4 are a bunch of virgins giving advice on how to be HOH (hard on hoes) and how to treat every woman like a whore. Lamest site of black men ever.


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## Royalq (May 27, 2017)

This is why I'm trying to get out of adn nursing school with the least amount  of debt possible. It's not a degree we're you should be leaving with 40k in debt. I plan to purse a Masters in nursing which for that I will incur some debt but I refuse for a adn. A lot of black women around me are pursuing nursing and are willing to sign off on absurd amounts of loans. One school I visited that offers a BSN wanted 63k￼￼. Helll to the naw naw. And plenty were willing to go to that school. So not only are black women having to pull out larger loans because we lack finicky aid, some are pulling out loans for jobs that don't lead anywhere, and also some are signing off on schools with exorbitant tuition.


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## GeorginaSparks (May 27, 2017)

Royalq said:


> I used to frequent that site. Coli ain't ish. A bunch of ugly short nerdy bums who are terrified of approaching women yet want the baddest IG girls. More than 3/4 are a bunch of virgins giving advice on how to be HOH (hard on hoes) and how to treat every woman like a whore. Lamest site of black men ever.


accurate


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## Femmefatal1981 (May 28, 2017)

Royalq said:


> I used to frequent that site. Coli ain't ish. A bunch of ugly short nerdy bums who are terrified of approaching women yet want the baddest IG girls. More than 3/4 are a bunch of virgins giving advice on how to be HOH (hard on hoes) and how to treat every woman like a whore. Lamest site of black men ever.


Yep and when you post links from sites like that it affects your credibility. The only good reason to post a link from The Coli is so we can get a good laugh.


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## afrofaithful (May 28, 2017)

I think black women should consider the military. I initially went to a state university when I graduated HS. At first, all my tuition was paid for, but my mom got a part time job that year and the next, I literally got $60. I looked up how much it would be to continue and pretty much dropped out lol. I am VERY debt averse. Neither of my parents went to college but I will say my mother made sure I was at least slightly financially savvy. I did take out a few loans, but I saw myself getting sucked into the debt hole and I really didn't know what I wanted to do, was getting bad grades and wasting time. I decided to join the military. One of the best choices I could have made. 

I have zero student loan debt, two associate degrees (I know not that impressive lol), and am only 4 classes away from a psych bachelors, 2 of those classes I will take excelsior exams to test out of, another thing I'll touch on later. The psych bachelors is just from all the classes I was taking while not knowing what I wanted to do lol. I actually just found out I was so close, and can use it for getting accepted into an accelerated BSN program, or to go to dental school. All free. One of my AA's is through the Air Force and it's for a medical lab tech. It's a trade I learned while in. It's a decent job, I've lived off the money since I've been out while going to school. I also haven't touched my gi bill (which pays 100% tuition at a state school and provides a living allowance). I'm using the guard to pay for my undergrad (100% paid state tuition) and the gi for grad school. I also came out of the guard with IT cyber training and an IT cert plus my security clearance. It's another back up job I can have. 

Not only did the Air Force allow me a free education, I also got a trade I can either build on, side hustle or just relax and still survive! I've traveled to over 15 countries, met some decent people, and have great benefits. I'm under 30. While I don't have my bachelors yet and am a bit behind (completely my fault, not because of the military), I am still doing better than some of my degreed friends saddled with debt. I know some people don't want to send their kids and I'd prefer not to have to, but if my kids don't get scholarships and I feel they need the discipline, that's where they're headed. At least to the guard. I don't know why more kids don't do it! It's one weekend a month, depending on your state they pay 100% tuition, you get a trade, benefits, and you get all the intangible perks of being military. It also really helped me become a little more focused. I wish I would have known more about the guard before going active duty. 

I think one of the main things the military gave me was options. I'm pursuing a nursing degree, but I would never forgive myself if I didn't at least try to get into dental school. Since I have both tuition programs I am working on my dental school prerequisites (I don't have that many left! ), and don't even have to worry about the money aspect. I'm just taking the classes even if they're useless lol. If I get into dental school, it will all be paid for if I go to a state school. I will only have to take out a few loans because it only covers 36 mos. If I do nursing, I'll have at least more than half of the 36 mos leftover if I do an accelerated BSN program which I will use to pursue an advanced practice nursing degree. 

I know it all depends on the administration though. I would not send my kid to the military with Trump in office. Luckily I have less than a year left. I served under president Obama. I know some people don't care either way lol...

So for those of you that don't know and have kids in school CLEP, DSST, and excelsior exams have allowed me to test out of more than 60 credit hours worth of classes. Most schools take the tests as well. With the military these tests are free, but they are very reasonable otherwise especially when considering paying for the actual classes. Look into them if you haven't heard of them! They have saved me SOOO much time! They are mostly for gen eds, but they have a few upper level credit tests. They're super easy, I feel like it's not even fair . I just study for a few days. There's a website I use that has practice tests. I print out all the questions, it's tedious, then take the tests over and over. Some of the questions will be on the actual exam verbatim the same. Info I don't know, I'll read up on or at least try and famialiarize myself with the concepts. I've only failed two, and I didn't study for them. 

Anyhoo!!! Those of you with degrees already, the military offers tuition reimbursement and you can go in as an officer and make decent money. I knew a girl with a finance masters in the Air Force so they could pay off her loans. Depending on your field you can also get experience. They also have the military colleges which are free. I know a guy who has had the military pay for ALL of his stuff while active to become an NP. 

Just thought I'd share that with you all. I know it's extreme to some but it's always another option. Please excuse any typos/grammar, I'm on my phone.


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## Christina Dior (May 28, 2017)

afrofaithful said:


> I think black women should consider the military. I initially went to a state university when I graduated HS. At first, all my tuition was paid for, but my mom got a part time job that year and the next, I literally got $60. I looked up how much it would be to continue and pretty much dropped out lol. I am VERY debt averse. Neither of my parents went to college but I will say my mother made sure I was at least slightly financially savvy. I did take out a few loans, but I saw myself getting sucked into the debt hole and I really didn't know what I wanted to do, was getting bad grades and wasting time. I decided to join the military. One of the best choices I could have made.
> 
> I have zero student loan debt, two associate degrees (I know not that impressive lol), and am only 4 classes away from a psych bachelors, 2 of those classes I will take excelsior exams to test out of, another thing I'll touch on later. The psych bachelors is just from all the classes I was taking while not knowing what I wanted to do lol. I actually just found out I was so close, and can use it for getting accepted into an accelerated BSN program, or to go to dental school. All free. One of my AA's is through the Air Force and it's for a medical lab tech. It's a trade I learned while in. It's a decent job, I've lived off the money since I've been out while going to school. I also haven't touched my gi bill (which pays 100% tuition at a state school and provides a living allowance). I'm using the guard to pay for my undergrad (100% paid state tuition) and the gi for grad school. I also came out of the guard with IT cyber training and an IT cert plus my security clearance. It's another back up job I can have.
> 
> ...


The Air Force did me good ! I cannot lie ! But no .... I don't think MORE black women need to sign up for the military. That's not a future I envision for my black daughters and sisters. We need more options than "go to the military" for black women. But....I suppose it's a temporary solution. No offense but I see a lot of people suggest the military to people like it's a decision that isn't serious. Student loan debt is serious but the military is simply not viable for everyone for sooooo many reasons.


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## afrofaithful (May 28, 2017)

Christina Dior said:


> The Air Force did me good ! I cannot lie ! But no .... I don't think MORE black women need to sign up for the military. That's not a future I envision for my black daughters and sisters. We need more options than "go to the military" for black women. But....I suppose it's a temporary solution. No offense but I see a lot of people suggest the military to people like it's a decision that isn't serious. Student loan debt is serious but the military is simply not viable for everyone for sooooo many reasons.



I can agree with that. I just look at myself and my peers and know I made the right decision. I think the guard is a no brainer though. It's a joke really lol. I guess do your research! My unit hasn't deployed in over 10 years. I'll be gone by the time their bucket is up. They said everyone volunteers to go anyway. Of course you can't count on that though...


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## dancinstallion (May 28, 2017)

Royalq said:


> This is why I'm trying to get out of adn nursing school with the least amount  of debt possible. It's not a degree we're you should be leaving with 40k in debt. I plan to purse a Masters in nursing which for that I will incur some debt but I refuse for a adn. A lot of black women around me are pursuing nursing and are willing to sign off on absurd amounts of loans. One school I visited that offers a BSN wanted 63k￼￼. Helll to the naw naw. And plenty were willing to go to that school. So not only are black women having to pull out larger loans because we lack finicky aid, some are pulling out loans for jobs that don't lead anywhere, and also some are signing off on schools with exorbitant tuition.



Yes i know a LVN that signed to a for profit adn for 37k and it was 18 months. I told her you could get a bsn for half of that,


afrofaithful said:


> I think black women should consider the military. I initially went to a state university when I graduated HS. At first, all my tuition was paid for, but my mom got a part time job that year and the next, I literally got $60. I looked up how much it would be to continue and pretty much dropped out lol. I am VERY debt averse. Neither of my parents went to college but I will say my mother made sure I was at least slightly financially savvy. I did take out a few loans, but I saw myself getting sucked into the debt hole and I really didn't know what I wanted to do, was getting bad grades and wasting time. I decided to join the military. One of the best choices I could have made.
> 
> I have zero student loan debt, two associate degrees (I know not that impressive lol), and am only 4 classes away from a psych bachelors, 2 of those classes I will take excelsior exams to test out of, another thing I'll touch on later. The psych bachelors is just from all the classes I was taking while not knowing what I wanted to do lol. I actually just found out I was so close, and can use it for getting accepted into an accelerated BSN program, or to go to dental school. All free. One of my AA's is through the Air Force and it's for a medical lab tech. It's a trade I learned while in. It's a decent job, I've lived off the money since I've been out while going to school. I also haven't touched my gi bill (which pays 100% tuition at a state school and provides a living allowance). I'm using the guard to pay for my undergrad (100% paid state tuition) and the gi for grad school. I also came out of the guard with IT cyber training and an IT cert plus my security clearance. It's another back up job I can have.
> 
> ...





afrofaithful said:


> I think black women should consider the military. I initially went to a state university when I graduated HS. At first, all my tuition was paid for, but my mom got a part time job that year and the next, I literally got $60. I looked up how much it would be to continue and pretty much dropped out lol. I am VERY debt averse. Neither of my parents went to college but I will say my mother made sure I was at least slightly financially savvy. I did take out a few loans, but I saw myself getting sucked into the debt hole and I really didn't know what I wanted to do, was getting bad grades and wasting time. I decided to join the military. One of the best choices I could have made.
> 
> I have zero student loan debt, two associate degrees (I know not that impressive lol), and am only 4 classes away from a psych bachelors, 2 of those classes I will take excelsior exams to test out of, another thing I'll touch on later. The psych bachelors is just from all the classes I was taking while not knowing what I wanted to do lol. I actually just found out I was so close, and can use it for getting accepted into an accelerated BSN program, or to go to dental school. All free. One of my AA's is through the Air Force and it's for a medical lab tech. It's a trade I learned while in. It's a decent job, I've lived off the money since I've been out while going to school. I also haven't touched my gi bill (which pays 100% tuition at a state school and provides a living allowance). I'm using the guard to pay for my undergrad (100% paid state tuition) and the gi for grad school. I also came out of the guard with IT cyber training and an IT cert plus my security clearance. It's another back up job I can have.
> 
> ...



Which website do you use to practice for the tests?


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## Maracujá (May 28, 2017)

Didn't read the entire thread but could studying overseas be a viable option? Attending college is dirt cheap here in Belgium and the quality is good. Most graduate and post-graduate studies are taught in English as well.


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## BEAUTYU2U (May 28, 2017)

Hell nah to the military. They feed on low-income and minority students. You never see them recruiting to rich white kids. Plus, we've shed enough of our black blood for this country.

/rant

But if it's the only viable option for financial freedom, I suppose.


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## Christina Dior (May 28, 2017)

As far as the military, the only non low income, non minority folks that aren't being preyed on BUT are being recruited are CERTAIN jobs in the military like fighter pilots for the Air Force. Almost all of them are white, male, and come from parents who were not low income earners. Most of their siblings are super successful and their children go on to be doctors, lawyers etc not the normal enlisted background.

I have seen a lot of young kids come in the military because their family was desperate for them to get out their house or the neighborhood, and simply flounder at their first base and eventually get kicked out because they are not built for it. At certain bases, mentorship and patience for young, inexperienced, especially minority troops, is at a low or basically non existent. It sucks.


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## Livingmylifetothefullest (May 29, 2017)

@afrofaithful 

I didn't want to quote your whole post LOL but I agree with you 100%. One of our nursing directors is a black woman and she had joined the AF. Did her 20, got her nursing degree and she is sailing through life. I normally don't have anyone I look up to but she is definitely one. 

Man, I wish you ladies could meet her


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## afrofaithful (May 29, 2017)

dancinstallion said:


> Yes i know a LVN that signed to a for profit adn for 37k and it was 18 months. I told her you could get a bsn for half of that,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



https://www.nelnetsolutions.com/dodlibrary/

You don't have to be military to use it, just set up an account.


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## dancinstallion (Jul 5, 2020)

dancinstallion said:


> My niece just went to college and lives down the street from the university but she didnt want to go there because she says it is ghetto. she and her mother wanted her to have the college experience so they let her go to a university an hour away to live on campus.
> 
> I told them about accumulating debt so early just to stay on campus. I also told them that in their state the first two years of college is free if she went to a community college, or free if she went to the university down the street and picked a certain major(she can always change majors). they said No and made every excuse for her to go to the other school. They dont even know how much she had to borrow to pay for everything.
> My niece said she doesnt care how much it costs even if it is 30k a year she just wants to live on campus.  and she wants to be an md.



Welp my niece dropped out second semester of sophomore year. All that debt for nothing.


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## luckiestdestiny (Jul 5, 2020)

removed because I saw another post that clarified some military stuff anyways...


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## luckiestdestiny (Jul 5, 2020)

removed again as it was already touched upon later in the thread.


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## Kanky (Jul 6, 2020)

Parents should encourage their kids to get an associates degree in high school with a dual enrollment program. This can save time and money later.


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## Evolving78 (Jul 6, 2020)

Kanky said:


> Parents should encourage their kids to get an associates degree in high school with a dual enrollment program. This can save time and money later.


My child was registered to take the SAT but that has been suspended due to Covid-19. Hopefully I can persuade him to take college credit courses during the summer or winter break. He is entering 9th grade this year.


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## classychic1908 (Jul 6, 2020)

Evolving78 said:


> My child was registered to take the SAT but that has been suspended due to Covid-19. Hopefully I can persuade him to take college credit courses during the summer or winter break. He is entering 9th grade this year.



I know this is common for high school juniors and seniors, but how does this work for rising 9th graders?  Do they not need to complete high school coursework before college?


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## Evolving78 (Jul 6, 2020)

classychic1908 said:


> I know this is common for high school juniors and seniors, but how does this work for rising 9th graders?  Do they not need to complete high school coursework before college?


He is in a gifted/college accelerated  program, paid for and he sponsored by his school district.


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## naijamerican (Jul 7, 2020)

naijamerican said:


> I admire your approach and wanted to say that what you said about the first degree being covered by you is the same attitude my parents adopted. I do have loans from undergrad, but my parents felt that undergrad was on them, and grad was on me. I have a lot of graduate school loans and it stresses me out. It seriously compromises my quality of life. However, I will be applying for a loan repayment program that, if I were to get in, would cover about half of my loans because of my line of work. I've made some career moves that, by the grace of God, will make me a competitive applicant.
> 
> My experience with student loans has truly changed my thinking about the importance of generational wealth. I don't want my children to be saddled by such debt. And the sad thing is that I have friends whose debt is twice, thrice that of mine. I cannot. This society does not respect the pursuit of education but that's a story for another day. -_-


I keep seeing notifications for this post so I thought I would update. 

I did indeed get into the program I referred to, which paid off a significant portion of my student loans. I applied for a renewal and am waiting to hear back (please pray that it gets renewed!!). But the relief I feel is palpable!!

My stance has not changed one bit. In fact, I'm all the more determined to tell people to be careful how you approach formal education in this country, including the merits of taking on student loans without tapping into resources to help alleviate their burden.


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## tigereyes83 (Jul 7, 2020)

Mini rant.. A lot of people are waiting for student forgiveness from the government to save them. I honestly don’t think that it’s going to happen.


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## SoopremeBeing (Jul 8, 2020)

tigereyes83 said:


> Mini rant.. A lot of people are waiting for student forgiveness from the government to save them. I honestly don’t think that it’s going to happen.



One of the schools I have sent with was abruptly shut down for fraud. That portion still haven’t been forgiven.


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## Kanky (Jul 8, 2020)

tigereyes83 said:


> Mini rant.. A lot of people are waiting for student forgiveness from the government to save them. I honestly don’t think that it’s going to happen.



It should happen but people without college educations and people who already paid are too resentful to support it. I have no student loan debt between the scholarships and my parents but I still think that it would be great for the economy to forgive student loans. People would suddenly have a lot more money to spend on homes and other stuff.


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## tigereyes83 (Jul 9, 2020)

Kanky said:


> It should happen but people without college educations and people who already paid are too resentful to support it. I have no student loan debt between the scholarships and my parents but I still think that it would be great for the economy to forgive student loans. People would suddenly have a lot more money to spend on homes and other stuff.



Your right. A lot of people will not support it. I rather have reparations honestly. All black slave descendants  go to school for free or forgive loans. I worked my behind off with every type of hurdle possible. Just to think of future generations of black people didn’t have these hurdles. I honestly don’t care if the whites struggle with debt.


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## tigereyes83 (Jul 9, 2020)

SoopremeBeing said:


> One of the schools I have sent with was abruptly shut down for fraud. That portion still haven’t been forgiven.



I could of swore there was some type of follow up process. I don’t think it’s automatic. Forgive me if you already tried following up. Next step would be contact your local state rep.


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