# Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?



## Laela (Mar 13, 2012)

What is the difference between rap and hip hop? One Christian says that rap is an art form and is not to be confused with Hip Hop, which is its own religion and a form of spirituality. I'm inclined to believe that. Yet they both seem synonymous and used interchangeably. Shouldn't, then, Christian rap artists make the distiction clear? It doesn't help if they're dressed like hip-hop artists (i.e., earrings in the ears, graffiti wear, baseball cap). We can argue "render your heart, not your garment"... but is the message being scrambled because of the "hip hop" culture?  


We know about G Craig Lewis and his "Truth Behind Hip Hop". But there are Christian artists, like LaCrae, who speak truth.

I'm just musing.... if you have any thoughts..would love to hear it!


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## Shimmie (Mar 13, 2012)

Now I'm 'musing'.   I thought they were all one in the same.  The same rhythm, beat, and words on non-distinction, I never know what they're saying...   

..

Hey, I'm from the UE bunch.  What more can one expect from me?  I can't even sing, but I'm alla' dis here...


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## BrandNew (Mar 13, 2012)

Laela said:


> Hip Hop, *which is its own religion and a form of spirituality*.


 
I'm not sure I understand what this means....


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## aribell (Mar 13, 2012)

Hmm...I'm not sure I understand either.   As far as I can tell, hip hop is a genre that barely exists anymore.  It seems that hardcore rap has eclipsed most of it.

Perhaps they're trying to distinguish rap as an art form from the broader culture of mainstream rap, and they're labelling that broader culture hip hop?  I guess then that you make a good point about how some Christian rappers hold on to the outward mannerisms of mainstream rappers.

I wasn't aware that hip hop had any spiritual connotatiins other than with resepect to Illuminati-type stuff.

Idk...


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## silenttullip (Mar 13, 2012)

Hip hop is tupac, run d mc, mc lite, even lacrae its the clothes, the life, the rules, the lyrics with actual meaning. It's expressing truth and empowering... It's a culture

Rap is... Well... Turn on ya radio you'll hear it... Its just spitting some lyrics now a days its more about the beat and sounding computerized forget if the bars make sense and if the hook only consists of 3 words and sounds 

As for how christian rap artists dress... There's nothing in the bible about baseball caps or graffiti wear. I mean there's preachers who get up in 3 piece suits and have 3 women pregnant for them in the same church lol so it's like I hope we as people especially christians aren't going to "make someone sit on place for having a baseball cap and make someone else sit another place for having a polo or suit".

I get the ear ring thing but besides that... They're people just like us all. If I'm hot I'm going to wear a tank top regardless of what title I hold and if someone wants to tr stripping me of the title I hold or being a christian because of what I have on that's between God and them...

I use to love LaCrae haven't heard him lately but he use to bring some realness.

But yeah to me hiphop and rap aren't the same rap is about putting bars and a hook together to make a song. With hiphop you live, breathe, and eat it and sadly without a certain *look* its not hiphop.

I guess they feel like *Christians need street cred too* lol


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## Shimmie (Mar 14, 2012)

silenttullip said:


> Hip hop is tupac, run d mc, mc lite, even lacrae its the clothes, the life, the rules, the lyrics with actual meaning. It's expressing truth and empowering... It's a culture
> 
> Rap is... Well... Turn on ya radio you'll hear it... Its just spitting some lyrics now a days its more about the beat and sounding computerized forget if the bars make sense and if the hook only consists of 3 words and sounds
> 
> ...



WELL ! ! !  

You have some serious knowledge going on here.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 14, 2012)

Hip Hop is a music genre that came from rap.. ..... a culture.

I agree alot of the Christian rap artist do look like the wordly ones. The crowds do the same dance to the Christian rap artists as they do the wordly ones. It's like the same tone and spirit behind them both...but thats another thread .......

Christians dont need "street cred", we need holiness and righteousness..We've been called from the world to be seperate.

I myself dont agree with the whole Christian Hip Hop because Hip Hop orginally came from rap, beatboxing, freestyling, that has nothing to do with God. And then someone came and stuck Christian on it.

This is MY opinion, please dont stone me...


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## Shimmie (Mar 14, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Hip Hop is a music genre that came from rap.. ..... a culture.
> 
> I agree alot of the Christian rap artist do look like the wordly ones. The crowds do the same dance to the Christian rap artists as they do the wordly ones. It's like the same tone and spirit behind them both...but thats another thread .......
> 
> ...



I agree... 'they' can't stick a label on it to make it right.   

The problem is there's truly 'no change' being brought about in the Ministries who have this 'noise' going on.    As stated above, the same moves as the world are being danced.    So where is the 'change' that honours God our Father?     

And this is why we have so much dis-tachment in the Church; no commitment to the Word.  Folks claiming to be Christians, yet the behaviours and the mindset say different.

There's just no 'Holiness' coming forth from the rap culture in Christian music. 



As for stones, all stones will bounce back...


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 14, 2012)

Preach Shimmie

I know people say the "message" is good, but its hard to hear the message when it sounds like Im listening to Jay-Z or Tupac..
 These artists try to hard to 'draw people', especially the "draw the youth", with wordly means. The word of God drew me, it wasn't a pizza party, rap concert, singles night, it was THE WORD OF GOD. The bible says the sheep know His voice and they will follow. People are trying too hard and doing too much. Throw seeds, sow the word Of God and the sheep will come.

I get tired of people keep saying "the youth not serving God anymore" "We got to get the youth back in church"..Well preach the TRUE word and they will come. Jesus never preached a different gospel or a different message to draw the youth or even had a different method. The youth had to get saved like everyone else did.They heard the same truth.
Sometimes we have one foot in the world and one foot in God. It dont work that way. We are called to be pecuilar people, royal priesthood. We shouldn't be fitting in with the world.and Hip Hop is of the world.





Shimmie said:


> I agree... 'they' can't stick a label on it to make it right.
> 
> The problem is there's truly 'no change' being brought about in the Ministries who have this 'noise' going on. As stated above, the same moves as the world are being danced. So where is the 'change' that honours God our Father?
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Mar 14, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Preach Shimmie
> 
> I know people say the "message" is good, but its hard to hear the message when it sounds like Im listening to Jay-Z or Tupac..
> 
> ...



All this type and hype of 'noise' does is tell folks 'make your own' Jesus.  

I'm serious, Alicia.   The message being conveyed is, They don't have to 'change', just 'change' God to conform to their rhythm, be it crunk, punk, or junk.   

It didn't take the world to bring my heart to the Lord.   I was 'drawn' by the Holy Spirit... His gentle tug at my heart and His 'still small voice' which is 'still' the strongest voice ever and without 'confusion' or intrusion.   It was simply the pureness of God's Holiness.  

How can one enter into the presence of God with the foolishness of the flesh.   I don't care who sings rap or whatever, none of it is 'worship'.  It's all flesh, bouncing and jumpin' flesh.    Just because one adds 'Jesus' to it, don't make it holy.  

And you know what Alicialynn86 ?   THIS IS WHAT's MISSING?  Worship!  Instead of bringing folks in through worship, carnality, lavciviousnes, hollow hearts, have been brought into the Church and THIS is why the Church has 'weakened' pillars and degrading structures.   

Can you imagine how many yokes and bondages would be literally destroyed simply by the pure presence of worship?

Alicia... in the presence of worship, sin and flesh can't overrule.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 14, 2012)

This is it!! In the flesh we can not please God. They trying to give God worship out of their own minds and understanding, when it has to be done through the Holy Ghost.



Shimmie said:


> All this type and hype of 'noise' does is tell folks 'make your own' Jesus.
> 
> I'm serious, Alicia. They don't have to 'change', just 'change' God to conform to their rhythm, be it crunk, punk, or junk.
> 
> ...


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## 3jsmom (Mar 14, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Preach @Shimmie
> 
> I know people say the "message" is good, but its hard to hear the message when it sounds like Im listening to Jay-Z or Tupac..
> These artists try to hard to 'draw people', especially the "draw the youth", with wordly means. The word of God drew me, it wasn't a pizza party, rap concert, singles night, it was THE WORD OF GOD. The bible says the sheep know His voice and they will follow. People are trying too hard and doing too much. Throw seeds, sow the word Of God and the sheep will come.
> ...


 
I just got my shout on b/c of the bolded part!!!! If you teach anyone the True Word of God they will follow it. I think most kids need to hear the TRUE Word, be able to understand it and then they will get it. Most of the youth are just like a lot of adults searching for the real thing but can't find it. We have to take it to them and make sure they understand it for themselves. 

My daughter and I was watching Gospel Music channel a couple of years ago and they had a "Holy Hip-Hop" night. My daughter and I were shocked at what we were listening to because one we could not understand it and two it sounded like the regular hip hop.  My daughter said we could've put on MTV2 and been just as entertained


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## dicapr (Mar 14, 2012)

I think the real issue is whether or not chrisitan rap/ hip hop is worship music for church. I tend to use christian hip/hop for my everyday music-the beat is great for cleaning the house. Worship music is reserved for bible study time and Sabbath. I don't think either one is wrong but the question is appropriateness.

As far as the youth not being able to understand the message or the words it is quite individual.  I can understand most rap, regge, ect.  I just have that ear.  So does my nephew.  He can sing along with christian rap using the correct words and he understands what he is saying.  Some traditional songs are so over-sung that I can't make out their message easily.  I would not be so bold to claim that they are no longer an appropriate form of praise because they seem to be focusing of vocal gymnastics rather than clarity. Because in all honesty, most gospel performers are so busy trying to SANG that much of the message behind the song is lost.


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## Shimmie (Mar 14, 2012)

3jsmom said:


> I just got my shout on b/c of the bolded part!!!! If you teach anyone the True Word of God they will follow it. I think most kids need to hear the TRUE Word, be able to understand it and then they will get it. Most of the youth are just like a lot of adults searching for the real thing but can't find it. We have to take it to them and make sure they understand it for themselves.
> 
> My daughter and I was watching Gospel Music channel a couple of years ago and they had a "Holy Hip-Hop" night. My daughter and I were shocked at what we were listening to because one we could not understand it and two it sounded like the regular hip hop.  My daughter said we could've put on MTV2 and been just as entertained



My daughter is the same.   My children grew up on the Word of God... 'straight... no chaser'.  There were no gimmicks or disguises.  We didn't 'rock' the music to obtain the Word, we were upon the Rock and upon which we now and continue to stand.  

How do we ever expect to know God's voice if it's camophlaged in the sounds of the world?   Why cover it up?  Just give it to them straight.  If the kids can cuss straight, then all the more they can take the Word of God straight.  Just bring out Jesus and show these kids who God is straight up, no undercover.   

It's an insult to the Holy Spirit that He has to be disguised in order to have a fragment, the stale crumbs of one's attention.    

This rap confusion is giving kids permission to be ADHD (Attention Deficeit Hyperactivity Disorder) when it comes to an attention span for Jesus.    In other words, they're not giving the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ any of their attention unless they can 'rock' or drop it like it's hot....

This is just sad...  

It's no small wonder why they are tossed to/fro with every wind and doctrine, not knowing the truth, not being infilled with righteousness, not being convicted or lead of the Holy Spirit.   

Spiritual Dyslexia....


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## LoveisYou (Mar 14, 2012)

I think like in all things we would have to test the spirit behind these songs before drawing a conclusion.
For example, I really do believe Lecrae loves the Lord. His lyrics and video are anything like the foolishness they show and play on the T.V. and radio. I don't see any dropping like it's hot.

These are lyrics from one of my fav Lecrae song, Just Like You. I don't see anything wrong with them

*I remember the first created being
And how he shifted the blame on his dame
On fruit he should’t have eaten
And now look at us all out of Eden
And now look at us all that are eating
Wearing designer fig leaves by Louis Vuitton
Make believe it
But God sees through my foolish pride
And I’m weak life Adam another victim of Lucifer’s foolish lies
But then in steps Jesus
All men were created to lead but we need somebody to lead us
More than a teacher
But somebody who buy us back from the darkness
Say He redeemed us
Taught us that real leaders follow God
Finish the work ‘cuz we on our job
Taught us not to rob
But give life love a wife like He loved the Church
Not seeing how many hearts we can break first
I wanna be like you in every way
So if I gotta die everyday
Unworthy sacrifice
But the least I can do is give the most to me
Because being just like you is what I’m ‘spose to be
You said you came for the lame
I’m the lamest
I made a mess you say you’ll erase it
I’ll take it
You said you came for the lame
I’m the lamest
I broke my life, but you say you’ll replace it
I’ll take it*


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## dicapr (Mar 14, 2012)

I see nothing wrong with that song.


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## Shimmie (Mar 14, 2012)

LoveisYou said:


> I think like in all things we would have to test the spirit behind these songs before drawing a conclusion.
> For example, I really do believe Lecrae loves the Lord. His lyrics and video are anything like the foolishness they show and play on the T.V. and radio. I don't see any dropping like it's hot.
> 
> These are lyrics from one of my fav Lecrae song, Just Like You. I don't see anything wrong with them
> ...



Absolutely beautiful... the words and his heart that flows within the lines.  

Can he just 'sing' it?   No 'runs'........ no 'rap'........ just sing, with the words flowing from his spirit, giving God the glory.  

Rap... has the sounds of the 'appearance of evil'.    In no way am I saying that he is.   Not at all.   However, rap is sharp, and it's tone and rhythm sounds too much like like the harshness of the world.  

LoveisYou...  Thank you for sharing the lyrics,  they are truly beautiful, just like the heart of you.


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## sidney (Mar 15, 2012)

I thought christian hip hop was fine until I dreamed about it last night for anyone open to hear about it.  I was at an outdoor event with Alicialynn and there was a young boy rapping christian lyrics.  He was innocent enough and so were the lyrics. Buy his clothing were diabolical and i was aware that it was halloween  So i mention that how he presented himself is an abomination a nd the ladies with me echoed the same phrase: abomination 
 Luke 16:15
What is highly valued among men is an abomination in Gods sight.  I think that although the intentions of christian rappers culture is diabolical because it is ruled by the enemy.  The spirit of rap is to woshp the orator.  He is exalted.  I heard Micah Stampley say that the job of the worship leader is to draw christs bride into his chambers.  If you draw them into your own this is spiritual idolatry.  The songs he gives the psalmists are his love letters to the church. Thus spritual idolatry is an abomination. Ephesians 5:16 says sing spiritual songs in your heart as unto the Lord.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 15, 2012)

I agree. Nothing are really wrong with the words, its just the wordly delievery of it all.   

I can be singing "Jesus, you are my Lord and Savior", but if I am grinding my body when singing, doesn't that change the tone of it?you would be so focused on what I am doing with my body, than what I am saying.

Thats what happening, we see so much bling bling, pants hanging down...head banging,beats booming that its taking away from whats really being said. It's not the message, its the delievery.

The "yo,yo, yo, yo, check it one two three. Its ya lil boy Z, giving a shout out to my homeboy Jesus on the mic"...come on now...first all Jesus is not your homeboy and you better come to Him with honor and reverance. 


You let me start singing " Lord I love you today"..to the beat of Al Green or Jagged Edge or Rhianna song...yall gone be like . So the "beats" and "instrumentals" affect the song too...

I am not saying this people are not sincere, alot of them probably are, but good intentions dont make it right...


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## fifi134 (Mar 15, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> I agree. Nothing are really wrong with the words, its just the wordly delievery of it all.
> 
> I can be singing "Jesus, you are my Lord and Savior", but if I am grinding my body when singing, doesn't that change the tone of it?you would be so focused on what I am doing with my body, than what I am saying.
> 
> ...



Can you name specific artists? I never see Reach Records artists dressed like that, but correct me if I'm wrong.

The lyrics these artists rap adhere to Scripture. That is what is important. I think it's really sad that they're being dismissed because of the way they supposedly dress. I've never heard a song from a legitimate Christian rapper who's referred to Jesus as his homeboy.

Heads banging to a beat is no different to me than one clapping their hands or stomping their feet to a song. Beats booming is no different from cymbals being clashed. Just because something is attached to a culture doesn't mean it itself is inherently evil. The message is not being heard because too many are focusing on what they look like, or are trying to compare them to worldly artists. This isn't fair at all. Christian rock and contemporary artists (I listen to them too) don't get scrutinized like this but it's no different. God can use any vessel as He sees fit.

As far as the Christian rap artists I know, they don't dance inappropriately, they just rap. I went to a Trip Lee concert and he literally just stood there on the stage reciting. It's just a poem with beats. The beat is not what's evil, the message being preached can be. That's why we must search all things and see how it matches up with Scripture. 

Rap may not be one's choice for Christian music, but that doesn't mean one should dismiss it as invalid. Not everyone wants to be listening to Mahalia Jackson. 

1 Samuel 16:7:

*"But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”*


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## Laela (Mar 15, 2012)

I appreciate everyone's comments... you know, we always say we are the ones who limit God..... 

From looking at not just rap but other musical genres, I've come to the conclusion music is music. God created music, the devil perverted it. With Lucifer being the band leader and now fallen, Satan does indeed have a foothold on music on earth. STILL, he didn't create music.

I asked this question about rap/hip hop, simply because there was discussion among other Christians about the distinction. Hip Hop is a worldly culture, but it's not limited to music and clothes ..(it includes and promotes attitudes, such as love of money, greed, lusts, lasciviousness, all kinds of idolatry, etc.)  If an artist who is saved and is gifted to rap, are they really caught up in the _culture_ if they dress a certain way, was my question.  

We are to avoid every appearance of evil, that includes  avoiding evil or anything even seems to be wrong. Since when is a song dedicated to God evil or wrong? *scratching head* And black folk are always most critical of black folk. We'll reject rap but embrace Rock. Both genres have Christian artists.. 

Here is Jeremy Camp, a contemporary Christian Rock artist:






Here is LeCrae, a rap Christian artist:





What do you see? Anyone listens to their music?  

I do listen to all types of Christian music...music that moves stirs my soul, set me to look inward or to God. *sidney, you're right and God has spoken to you through that dream to make this point clear*: whenever an artist is being glorified -- it can cause soulish idolatry. That's with any musical genre.  

So I agree, we have to be careful that we are not worshiping these artists as gods. To presuppose that is their intentions without knowing, is in fact, evil.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 15, 2012)

It's not about the dress, but the persona they display.

Our dressing isn't the a complete part of our Christianity, but it is important. If it wasn't important to God, then there wouldn't be scriptures that reference how we should dress.

You have to realize that God never intended anything about Him or for Him to be mixed with with these of the wrong. Did not rap music start as a thing of the world? Did we not bring these custom from the world into our churches?


And for the scripture you referenced you have to use that scripture in its right context. He told Samuel this because Samuel was looking at the outward appearances of David brothers to see who would be King. David was impressed by the build of the men and figured since they big and strong that they would be the one who should be picked. But David was small in stature, probably didnt seem qualified for the position. But God said He looked at the heart of David because He knew what was in him and what he called Him to be. That does not mean God dont care about what we wear. If thats the case, then why does God prohibit tattoos? It's on the outside? So God shouldn't care right? Why does the bible speak about a man having long hair or a woman cutting her hair? God don't care about our hair and clothes right? Well why in 1st Timothy, it tells you we as women should dress modest? So there is some emphasis on what we should wear.

I am not judging the gospel rappers just on apperance alone. If you read my posts before, I am talking about how SIMILAR and alike they are to worldly rappers. God never wanted us to take ways of the world. We are always to remain seperate.


I will be back some examples


fifi134 said:


> Can you name specific artists? I never see Reach Records artists dressed like that, but correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> The lyrics these artists rap adhere to Scripture. That is what is important. I think it's really sad that they're being dismissed because of the way they supposedly dress. I've never heard a song from a legitimate Christian rapper who's referred to Jesus as his homeboy.
> 
> ...


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## LoveisYou (Mar 15, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Absolutely beautiful... the words and his heart that flows within the lines.
> 
> Can he just 'sing' it?   No 'runs'........ no 'rap'........ just sing, with the words flowing from his spirit, giving God the glory.
> 
> ...



I completely understand where you are coming from, but then I read quotes (like the below) by Lecrae in response to criticism of Christian rap and they cause me to pause:

_*"Imagine a butcher knife. Society says it’s a murder weapon, but I use it to cut meat off a bone and serve food to the homeless. I am bringing life. It’s all in how you use it."*_

ESSNCE.COM: *Why is it so hard for Christian Hip Hop to be accepted in the Gospel industry?*
LECRAE: *Hip Hop culture has been portrayed as sinful, evil, and unclean. When truthfully, every culture has aspects that are messed up. But when something is redeemed or given new direction, it can still maintain its substance. It just functions differently.  Cocaine is portrayed as an addictive illegal drug, but doctors use it as a topical anesthetic. The drug isn't the problem, people's intention and desire is the problem. Hip Hop isn't the problem. Art, rhythm, expression, and rhyme are not the problem. The motivation, heart, and use of them are. We call it sin. That's the real problem.*

Then I listen to his songs like Don't Waste Your Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbQyQavqqMI), and I can't help but wonder if he's not just merely using a means of expression, rap, to bring glory to God. In the same way ppl use art, poetry, music, drums, and dance.....you know.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 15, 2012)

These are only TWO examples of christian artists you have provided. So to say they all are alike is really pushing it. So lets not put everything on just Lacrae and Jeremy Camp.They are many more out there.The reason why no other music genre was talked about is because the name of your thread is Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"? , so of course Hip hop is being discussed.

I said in posts before that alot of them may be sincere, but good intentions dont make things right.

We we start thinking on how WE feel, we error. We have to stick to scripture. You said music is just music and then you said, music can be perverted, so that means music can be defiled. All music is not pure music. All music is not approved of God. If thats the case we can listen to all sex, drug, murder filled music then? NO.


You said it yourself that Hip hop is a culture. A culture is the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization. So it goes waaaayyyyyy beyond how they dress. The way they dress was ONE variable that was used to relate to wordliness not the only one.

And you said "Black folk is the most critical of black folk? So when is hip hop just about black people? There are whites who are in the hip hop movement, asians, mexicans, etc  Remember now, its not about race, its about culture, way of life, its about beliefs and attitudes.

The was a man in the bible (Cant remember his name) . But they was carrying around the Ark of the convenant and God said only the priest was suppose to touch the ark. This particular man was not a priest. Well he seen the Ark falling and he reached out and grabbed the ark. God killed him. Some may say...oh no! How could God kill the man, he was only trying to help!! Well God said, Dont do it and he did it anyway.Therefore judgement had fallen. So its not about what we feel is right. Its about what does God say. And God said, "Be not conformed to the world,", and rap AND rock was originated from the world. So alot of them may be sincere. (So was the man who grabbed the ark)....but are they right?




Laela said:


> I appreciate everyone's comments... you know, we always say we are the ones who limit God.....
> 
> From looking at not just rap but other musical genres, I've come to the conclusion music is music. God created music, the devil perverted it. With Lucifer being the band leader and now fallen, Satan does indeed have a foothold on music on earth. STILL, he didn't create music.
> 
> ...


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## Laela (Mar 15, 2012)

@ Tupac

Yet the Gospel is for everyone... the message has to get through; everyone can't listen to the same kinds of songs. God made us all unique and different. Those same folks may not want to hear Shirley Caesar belt out a tune. They might even tune her out... because they chose to tune her out, doesn't mean the message isn't there. 





Alicialynn86 said:


> Preach Shimmie
> 
> I know people say the "message" is good, but its hard to hear the message when it sounds like Im listening to Jay-Z or Tupac..


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 15, 2012)

So would God take something thats filthy and condone it? 





LoveisYou said:


> I completely understand where you are coming from, but then I read quotes (like the below) by Lecrae in response to criticism of Christian rap and they cause me to pause:
> 
> _*"Imagine a butcher knife. Society says it’s a murder weapon, but I use it to cut meat off a bone and serve food to the homeless. I am bringing life. It’s all in how you use it."*_
> 
> ...


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 15, 2012)

@Lela 

I was trying to give something that the older folks could relate too as well 

And by no means am I personally attacking you. This is a healthy discussion 
I know I can get "excited" in my discussions....


ETA: I dont really like Shirely Cesar that much..too much hollering...


Laela said:


> @ Tupac
> 
> Yet the Gospel is for everyone... the message has to get through; everyone can't listen to the same kinds of songs. God made us all unique and different. Those same folks may not want to hear Shirley Caesar belt out a tune. They might even tune her out... because they chose to tune her out, doesn't mean the message isn't there.


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## LoveisYou (Mar 15, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> So would God take something thats filthy and condone it?



 He said it was portrayed as such, he didn't say it was filthy. Real Hip Hop is NOT filthy it has been perverted by some rap artists unfortunately. The history of Hip Hop is not based on filth. But to answer your question, yes! All of us were filthy in our sin until Jesus redeemed us! He is the redeemer! Lecrae actually made that point after the sentence you bolded.

*"But when something is redeemed or given new direction, it can still maintain its substance. It just functions differently."*

In fact, all forms of expression have been perverted by the world. Art, music of all genre, motion picture, poetry, do we stop expressing because the world have perverted those means? Or do we glorify God anyhow? Let's take ourselves out of the picture for now? You may not understand/like rap, but what bout the other people it has the potential to reach? What about the seeds he could plant with his music? What about them?


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## Laela (Mar 15, 2012)

That gave me pause as well, I don't agree with Lecrae on this..the hip hop culture is a sinful one. But I beleive he's trying to make it a good thing because his music can classify as that and he is glorifying God with his music. But it doesn't work that way.





LoveisYou said:


> I completely understand where you are coming from, but then I read quotes (like the below) by Lecrae in response to criticism of Christian rap and they cause me to pause:
> 
> _*"Imagine a butcher knife. Society says it’s a murder weapon, but I use it to cut meat off a bone and serve food to the homeless. I am bringing life. It’s all in how you use it."*_
> 
> ...


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## Laela (Mar 15, 2012)

ALICIALYNN, you've got me  over here. Don't mean to make it a racial thing thing.. I'll try to stick to hip hop/rap.. LOL ..ahh...zeal can cause error.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 15, 2012)

Well Christ came so WE can be redeemed and cleansed by the blood, not hip hop. Jesus didn't die for Hip Hop, he died for us. So we have the oppurtunity to be redeemed.


But my point is, would God use something that is seen or potrayed as evil to glorify Himself with it?
Remember, the bible says To flee all appearance of evil. So if God says to flee things that even look like it may be evil, would he use something that is seen as evil..........that would contradict His word.



LoveisYou said:


> He said it was portrayed as such, he didn't say it was filthy. Real Hip Hop is NOT filthy it has been perverted by some rap artists unfortunately. The history of Hip Hop is not based on filth. But to answer your question, yes! All of us were filthy in our sin until Jesus redeemed us! He is the redeemer! Lecrae actually made that point after the sentence you bolded.


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## LoveisYou (Mar 15, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Well Christ came so WE can be redeemed and cleansed by the blood, not hip hop. Jesus didn't die for Hip Hop, he died for us. So we have the oppurtunity to be redeemed.
> 
> 
> But my point is, would God use something that is seen or protrayed as evil to glorify Himself with it?
> Remember, the bible says To flee all appearance of evil. So if God says to flee things that even look like it may be evil, would he use something that is seen as evil..........that would contradict His word.



...and we have been redeemed so we can glorify Him, isn't that what Lecrae is doing?  What the devil meant for evil God can make for good right? Is it possible for God to use hip hop through people to reach certain communities/listeners?


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## LoveisYou (Mar 15, 2012)

Laela said:


> That gave me pause as well, I don't agree with Lecrae on this..the hip hop culture is a sinful one. But I beleive he's trying to make it a good thing because his music can classify as that and he is glorifying God with his music. But it doesn't work that way.



Nearly all forms of expression have been perverted, do we not use those either? I think we are limiting God.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 15, 2012)

Well the word is the word. So if you don't agree...thats fine, you are entitled to not agreeing, but it still dont change the word. We are to have nothing to do with worldy traditions..


Is lecrae glorfying God how God wants to be glorfied or he is doing it  how he THINKS God wants to be glorified???




LoveisYou said:


> I don't agree at all, but to address your point, what the devil meant for evil God can make for good right? Is it possible for God to use hip hop through people to reach certain communities/listeners?


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## LoveisYou (Mar 15, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Well the word is the word. So if you don't agree...thats fine, you are entitled to not agreeing, but it still dont change the word. We are to have nothing to do with worldy traditions..
> 
> 
> Is lecrae glorfying God how God wants to be glorfied or he is doing it  how he THINKS God wants to be glorified???



What word are you talking about? I honor God's word so please don't do that, where in the Bible does it say musical expression (Hip Hop) is wrong? where? If you can honestly show me, then His Truth Stands Always! I don't argue with truth. So please tell me where.

...and are you saying Lecrae isn't glorifying God because his form of expression is not your personal taste OR is there a Biblical basis for that?


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 15, 2012)

Ok. Please dont get upset about this. this is a discussion. I dont know your personal life, I am not talking about your agreement with the word in you overall life, just in relation to this topic. So if I offended you, I do apologize.

The word I am talking about , which has been repeated in like 3 of my posts...

Be not conformed to the world.(Romans 12V2).. Is not taking rap from the world, being conformed to it?

When he said to flee the appreance of evil (1 Thessalonian 5) ...would God take something evil, when he said to flee all things that look evil, to bring glory to Himself


And before I got saved, I liked rap music. So it used to be a personal choice of mine, but when I got saved, I left worldiness behind me......So it nothing about personal taste..




LoveisYou said:


> What word are you talking about? I honor God's word so please don't do that, where in the Bible does it say musical expression (Hip Hop) is wrong? where? If you can honestly show me, then His Truth Stands Always! I don't argue with truth. So please tell me where.
> 
> ...and are you saying Lecrae isn't glorifying God because his form of expression is not your personal taste OR is there a Biblical basis for that?


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## Shimmie (Mar 15, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> @Lela
> 
> I was trying to give something that the older folks could relate too as well
> 
> ...



Who you callin'  'older folk'.....


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## Laela (Mar 15, 2012)

I'm not espousing that Lacrae's music is perverted or defiled, because I believe he is glorifying God with his music. He is a married father and a known radical for Christ. People get saved at his concerts. I've listened to his music and he definitely has an anointing, so I don't agree that his music is perverted. Folks who just don't like rap won't agree. There is no Scripture to support that his rapping is wrong.

What I'm saying is Lacrae is attempting to qualify the *hip hop  culture* (which includes everyone else, like JayZ, all dem other "conscious" folks like KRS One - who have their own "bible") as Godly -- simply because of the few people like him who ARE Godly and happen to rap. Oil and water... He seems to desire to change that _culture_, but  that is what we are all charged with as believers in the Great Commission... to change the world and be set apart, not blend in. God bless him, because he is doing his part.  What sets him apart is Jesus Christ, but there should be no compromise. That was my point. 





LoveisYou said:


> Nearly all forms of expression have been perverted, do we not use those either? I think we are limiting God.


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## LoveisYou (Mar 15, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Ok. Please dont get upset about this. this is a discussion. I dont know your personal life, I am not talking about your agreement with the word in you overall life, just in relation to this topic. So if I offended you, I do apologize.
> 
> The word I am talking about , which has been repeated in like 3 of my posts...
> 
> ...



Those scriptures do not support that rapping to glorify our Heavenly father is wrong. So again, I disagree.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 15, 2012)

Well then we will agree to disagree 




LoveisYou said:


> Those scriptures do not support that rapping to glorify our Heavenly father is wrong. So again, I disagree.


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## LoveisYou (Mar 15, 2012)

Laela said:


> I'm not espousing that Lacrae's music is perverted or defiled, because I believe he is glorifying God with his music. He is a married father and a known radical for Christ. People get saved at his concerts. I've listened to his music and he definitely has an anointing, so I don't agree that his music is perverted. Folks who just don't like rap won't agree. There is no Scripture to support that his rapping is wrong.
> 
> What I'm saying is Lacrae is attempting to qualify the *hip hop  culture* (which includes everyone else, like JayZ, all dem other "conscious" folks like KRS One - who have their own "bible") as Godly -- simply because of the few people like him who ARE Godly and happen to rap. Oil and water... He seems to desire to change that _culture_, but  that is what we are all charged with as believers in the Great Commission... to change the world and be set apart, not blend in. God bless him, because he is doing his part.  What sets him apart is Jesus Christ, but there should be no compromise. That was my point.



Ok, Gotcha! Great point indeed!


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## Shimmie (Mar 15, 2012)

Laela...  LoveisYou   ...  Alicialynn86 

'Sisters'... Can I tell you something? 

I won't praise dance.    I am a skilled, gifted Dancer, yet I will not praise dance.   

To me, a Praise Dancer is set apart and when she's Dancing upon the Altar of God, it has to be worship of God and not the Dance.   

I'm not a 'sultry' Dancer, not by any means (but I 'could' be  ).  I know better.  

It's just that I've been Dancing for so long by a certain 'training', that I'd never be able to effectively Dance in a Church setting.   Dancers have to be very careful when they are in a Praise Dance.  It's not about showing skills and rhythms.  You have to literally 'erase' yourself, spirit, soul and body, so that the gift comes from the annointing and not the dance its self.

I'm not against Praise Dancing, not at all.  But not everyone is 'called' nor should they do it.     It's not about the Dance, it's about delivering a message through music and dance, a message that is of the Lord. 

Hope I'm making sense.


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## dicapr (Mar 15, 2012)

Rap is simply spoken word.  If the same gospel expression was done in a spoken word format how many of us would have any objection to the lyrics or delivery?  It is just because it is called "rap" that there is an objection.  Many R&B artist have their foundation in the church and often this type of delivery bleeds through to secular music.  Should we remove the "soul" out of gospel because it has been polluted by the world?  Where do we draw the line.  Who are we to judge how someone should praise the Lord-remember David's wife?  I would not be so bold as to judge someone's praise.  It may not be for me for various reasons but only God can judge the heart.  If dancing half naked in public is an acceptable form of praise I think rap can get a pass.


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## sidney (Mar 15, 2012)

LoveisYou said:


> ...and we have been redeemed so we can glorify Him, isn't that what Lecrae is doing? What the devil meant for evil God can make for good right? Is it possible for God to use hip hop through people to reach certain communities/listeners?


 
The way I understand it, it's like taking something of the enemies origin, (ie. like halloween) and trying to glorify God with a halloween celebration. There is a spirit associated with hip-hop, it's satan's venue to promote idolatry, pride, and a number of other things. I think what makes music important in particular is that it is used to worship God. It's not a good idea to take what the world uses to worship God. For example, I went to a Diwali performance once and almost jumped in...until I remembered that it's probably associated with Hindu religion. I can't use the Diwali dance as an expression to worship God or as a mean to promote Christ. I do think clothes are important in the bible, but not just about clothes. But the clothes come along with something greater, it's a pakaged with the greater spiritual problem here...rock and roll, hip hop are the enemies domain. I think there is a real spirit over rock and roll and hip hop. I heard lecrae say it once in one of his interviews but I can't find it now, but now I remember him saying that people are always glorifying him when he meets them at his concerts and he finds himself constantly deflecting the attention to Jesus. I know many artitists have this problem, but particularly wordly aritists. Logically, in my mind it would seem there is nothing wrong with it. But from a spiritual POV, there is mucg more involved hear. I think its important not to lean on our own understanding and realize the implications of using something unclean as a means to fascilate something as intimate as worshipping the father.


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## sidney (Mar 15, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Well the word is the word. So if you don't agree...thats fine, you are entitled to not agreeing, but it still dont change the word. We are to have nothing to do with worldy traditions..
> 
> 
> *Is lecrae glorfying God how God wants to be glorfied or he is doing it how he THINKS God wants to be glorified???[/*QUOTE]
> ...


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## Laela (Mar 15, 2012)

All right now... this takes me back to the original question... is there a difference between RAP and HIP HOP..... apparently there is much confusion as they seem synonymous... the hip hop culture _came from_ rap, as I understand it. Even with it's beginnings (thought to originate from W Africa) as being a "worldly tradition", are we saying Christians should not rap or use any form of music that sounds "worldly"? Dicapr mentioned the real question being "worship" and I now understand. Are we saying rap doesn't qualify as worship music?

Can one of you define _worldly _in terms of music.. not trying to be a "smart elect" (thanks to Poohbear for the term.. lol)... but seriously, what is "worldly music"? 

My understanding of worship is that it's adoration and faithfulness (obedience) to a diety. It can come in any form, including music... praise, prayer, sacrifice (money, time, fasting), etc. Therefore we WORSHIP God simply by being obedient to His Word -- not only when we sing a song.


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## Laela (Mar 15, 2012)

I understand, Shimmie... thanks for being so open and honest about this. I do see praise dance as a form of _*warship*_ in the sanctuary....them being more like praise leaders, and not performers.... so the bolded is soooo true...

(Sorry I'm in a good mood  TD Jakes pronounces it "warship")...

Anyway, yes, with all the kicking and spinning and splits and such, it's something that could easily distract church members or visitors who aren't um, as "focused" on God at the moment... lol So I can understand that this Gift is serious business and should be respected as such -- like with any role in church.. ushers, praise and worship leaders, Sunday school teachers, prayer leaders, choir members, etc. Whatever our role in the Kingdom, whatever our Gifts, that same seriousness should apply so that what we do for the Lord is not a burden but a joy! 



Shimmie said:


> @Laela...  @LoveisYou  ... @Alicialynn86
> 
> 'Sisters'... Can I tell you something?
> 
> ...


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Mar 16, 2012)

yes he does say that 'warship' doesn't he, I wonder if he got a revelation or maybe thats just how he pronounces it...


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