# Bill Nye the Science Guy: Parents--don't teach your kids "Creationism"



## Galadriel (Sep 5, 2012)

Bill Nye The Science Guy has created a two-minute You Tube video  for online knowledge group Big Think in which he defends evolution and  ask parents not to raise creationist kids. Nye hosted a popular kids  science show in the 1990s. From NBC News via Channel 11’s website:
“Denial of evolution is unique to the United States,” Nye  says in the video. After praising the U.S. as the world’s most advanced  technological society, he credits that ranking to “intellectual capital  we have, the general understanding of science. When you have a portion  of the population that doesn’t believe in that, it holds everybody back,  really.”
 Nye goes on to say that he asks those who don’t believe in evolution  to explain to him why they feel that way, and that “your world just  becomes fantastically complicated when you don’t believe in evolution…”
 “And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in  your world, in your world that’s completely inconsistent with  everything we observe in the universe, that’s fine,” Nye says. “But  don’t make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically  literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need people that can –  we need engineers that can build stuff, solve problems.”


source: HERE

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What say you?
​


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 5, 2012)

-------- sorry, wrong thread.


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## Shimmie (Sep 5, 2012)

Galadriel said:


> Bill Nye The Science Guy has created a two-minute You Tube video  for online knowledge group Big Think in which he defends evolution and  ask parents not to raise creationist kids. Nye hosted a popular kids  science show in the 1990s. From NBC News via Channel 11’s website:
> “Denial of evolution is unique to the United States,” Nye  says in the video. After praising the U.S. as the world’s most advanced  technological society, he credits that ranking to “intellectual capital  we have, the general understanding of science. When you have a portion  of the population that doesn’t believe in that, it holds everybody back,  really.”
> Nye goes on to say that he asks those who don’t believe in evolution  to explain to him why they feel that way, and that “your world just  becomes fantastically complicated when you don’t believe in evolution…”
> “And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in  your world, in your world that’s completely inconsistent with  everything we observe in the universe, that’s fine,” Nye says. “But  don’t make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically  literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need people that can –  we need engineers that can build stuff, solve problems.”
> ...



Why... ? ? ?  Why Nye, Why?   

Ahhhhhh no small wonder, you're a science guy; you don't believe in God.

satan obviously primed this man to win the hearts and trust of many only as a set up, a trap to add this garbage into their spirits.


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## Galadriel (Sep 5, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Why... ? ? ?  Why Nye, Why?
> 
> Ahhhhhh no small wonder, you're a science guy; you don't believe in God.
> 
> satan obviously primed this man to win the hearts and trust of many only as a set up, a trap to add this garbage into their spirits.




My first reaction is why do the two have to even be at odds (science and religion)? Science is a discipline that allows me to learn and understand the natural world. It cannot answer for me whether or not there's a God, or what truth or goodness are--nor is it meant to.

Gregor Mendel, a Catholic priest, is the father of genetics 

35 craters on the moon are named after Jesuit astronomers and mathematicians.

Georges Lemaitre, also a priest, was the first scientist to propose what we now call "The Big Bang Theory."

Christianity has a rich and foundational contribution and formation of Western Civilization. One can be a very good engineer, astronomer, or biologist and be a Christian.


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## Shimmie (Sep 5, 2012)

Galadriel said:


> My first reaction is why do the two have to even be at odds (science and religion)? Science is a discipline that allows me to learn and understand the natural world. It cannot answer for me whether or not there's a God, or what truth or goodness are--nor is it meant to.
> 
> Gregor Mendel, a Catholic priest, is the father of genetics
> 
> ...



Amen to all of your post and I do mean 'ALL'   

Galadriel... don't they realize that without God, there would be NO science.   It's because of God that these scientists have things to discover.    All they are doing is discovering what God already knows for after all it is God who created it ALL.  

The experiments that we did in science class (remember the water that didn't spill if you turned the glass upside down while holding a sheet of paper to it?),  Ummmm, don't these people remember it was God who parted the waters of the Red Sea?   AND he parted the waters of the Jordon river when Elijah slapped the waters with his cape?    

Why are people so bent on leaving God out of the equations when God created the very process of equation?    

Jesus said that those who deny Him, that He would also deny them, before God His Father.   

Mr. Nye better get it right before his _water_ runs out.    I'm just sayin'.


I thank God day and night and in between and in between that for all that He had done for me.   Why is it so hard for everyone else to give God a simple thank you, especially for science, which is God's in the first place.    I can see God looking down from Heaven, just shaking His head, at the limitations of man's empty imaginations.     

I'm tired Precious Gala...I tired of people being so ungrateful and so blind, especially when they do not have to be.   Folks know better, 'Gala', they know better.   God is not giving them any more stretches with this foolishness.    People has stretched God's patience beyond Grace.  The bungee cords are dry rotted for many and there is no bouncing back.  


Lord Jesus...  How we praise and honour and worship you and all that you are.  You are God and none other.   Only You.... Only You.... Only You.


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## TracyNicole (Sep 6, 2012)

I actually get what he is saying though.  Some people take the Bible in the most literal sense and if you do, Creationism and evolution are simply incompatible.  It is still possible to be Christian and a good scientist.  

While I don't think we need to ban the story of creation from Sunday school, parents definitely need to keep it to themselves if they believe in Creationism to the exclusion of evolution because it does create an intellectual conundrum that I believe you have to find an understanding within yourself to get past.  I spent a ton of time in prayer during my first year in teaching because I did not want to impress my beliefs on others.


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## Galadriel (Sep 6, 2012)

TracyNicole said:


> I actually get what he is saying though.  Some people take the Bible in the most literal sense and if you do, Creationism and evolution are simply incompatible.  It is still possible to be Christian and a good scientist.
> 
> While I don't think we need to ban the story of creation from Sunday school, parents definitely need to keep it to themselves if they believe in Creationism to the exclusion of evolution because it does create an intellectual conundrum that I believe you have to find an understanding within yourself to get past.  I spent a ton of time in prayer during my first year in teaching because I did not want to impress my beliefs on others.



Parents are the rightful and primary teachers of their children. If a parent wishes to teach his child about God, and that God is the Creator of the Universe, then so be it. 

The two are only incompatible when atheist materialist ideology jumps in and declares that because of evolution, that there is no God or God did not create the universe.

Macro-evolution has holes and inconsistencies it needs to resolve, I think. Neither can evolution answer or demonstrate anything about God, because that's not its function.


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## Laela (Sep 6, 2012)

No truer words spoken...thanks button not enough!



Galadriel said:


> Parents are the rightful and primary teachers of their children. If a parent wishes to teach his child about God, and that God is the Creator of the Universe, then so be it.


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## Nice Lady (Sep 6, 2012)

Bill Nye can promote whatever theory that he wants to. We know that he is off-based in his view. 

_*But as it was mentioned parents reserve the right to regulate what their kids are fed. Plus, this "creationism" theory will be an epic fail if the parents live out the true thing at home. Children soak up what their parents do and emulate their behaviors. If their parents live the right thing at home and make it an active duty to practice Christianity beyond the church walls, the children will be fine. *_

Also, if we have praying women like Shimmie and other women who experience some form of results, then these children will never be successful overtaken by the adversary. Eventually, these children will embrace God-like views only.


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## Shimmie (Sep 6, 2012)

TracyNicole said:


> I actually get what he is saying though.  Some people take the Bible in the most literal sense and if you do, Creationism and evolution are simply incompatible.  It is still possible to be Christian and a good scientist.
> 
> While I don't think we need to ban the story of creation from Sunday school, parents definitely need to keep it to themselves if they believe in Creationism to the exclusion of evolution because it does create an intellectual conundrum that I believe you have to find an understanding within yourself to get past.
> 
> I spent a ton of time in prayer during my first year in teaching because I did not want to impress my beliefs on others.



*  *Nye and those like him...*

*The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.*  Psalm 53:1

_In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God  .... Psalm 10:4 _

_You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay!  
*Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "He did not make me"? Can the pot say of the potter, "He knows nothing"?*.....  Isaiah 29:16_



*  *What they fail to acknowledge is this: *

_The earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein;

For He hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods .... Psalm 24:1  _.

These nonbelieving scientists are USING God's creations without the common courtesy of giving God thanks for it.    


* * * *Public Schools are a dangerous place for children and their precious souls.   They need God back in the school system and with Daily Prayer....*

_Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint; but one who keeps the law is blessed.....  Proverbs 29:18_ 

In one translation it says the people run wild --- no restraint. 

Schools today are a literal war zone.  Children KILLING children and With GUNS and ARSENALS of weapontry.   Where is this coming from?   A school system that has kicked God out of it's curriculum.    One day these fools who have made and enforce these rules are going to end up the victims of their own foolish decisions.    It's inevitable, for they are not listening to God's warnings.  


:Rose:  *God has commanded unto to us to PROTECT Our Children with HIS Word : *

_And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord and great shall be their peace.  .............  Isaiah 54:13_

*Now indeed: *

There are several Christians who are scientists yet they do not allow it to discount God, they see science as what PROVES God and all that He has created in this earth upon which we live.   They don't have a problem giving God due honour and glory and credit for what HE has created.   


:Rose:  *Witnessing for Christ: *

It's one thing to force one's beliefs on others, but to share it is what we are commanded to do.  

FEAR is what satan has always used to keep Christians from sharing Jesus with others.   

_For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.     Romans 1:16_

God is being left out when He should not have to be.


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## Shimmie (Sep 6, 2012)

Nice Lady said:


> Bill Nye can promote whatever theory that he wants to. We know that he is off-based in his view.
> 
> _*But as it was mentioned parents reserve the right to regulate what their kids are fed. Plus, this "creationism" theory will be an epic fail if the parents live out the true thing at home. Children soak up what their parents do and emulate their behaviors. If their parents live the right thing at home and make it an active duty to practice Christianity beyond the church walls, the children will be fine. *_
> 
> ...



I'm laughing at the bolded above;  "experience some form of results"  

Seriously though....

My children... my son and my daughter.   I fought 'hell' for them and refused to give up.  And it paid off.   Yes, I caught all kinds of opposition and criticism , but it didn't and couldn't stop me.     My babies lives and their souls were at stake... literally.     The devil was out to kill my son with drugs and all kinds of mess.   

But God...  God and His unfailing love and His unfailing promises and His unfailing Word....  God saved my children. 


*If any parents are reading this,* 

You MUST not allow this world to steal your children.   It doesn't matter what the laws try to dictate to you.   It doesn't matter if other people criticise you... this is about saving your child's / children's lives.    Ignore the Job's criticizers and keep fighting for your children with the Word of God.   Keep feeding your children God's word and let your children know that they have God's permission and yours to refuse to believe the lies that people say otherwise.    

Get in your child's school and demand to know what and how they are being taught.   If it ain't of God, file a complaint.  Get other parents to join you.  Form a group and write letters to everyone involved in your child's education letting them know what your expectations are.  

Listen... if that Madelyn O'Hare woman, if the gays, if Roe vs Wade can make such drastic changes in our system, why not you?    There's power in you that you never thought existed and you do not have to spend your tax dollars where you are not being accomodated.    This is what the gays are using as their entitlement, you can do it as well and succeed.    

Don't let anyone tell you that you cannot protect your child from being taught the wrong theologies.   AND you do not have to hide behind closed doors and windows as a prisoner in your own home, keeping the Lord out of the public view.   If sin can be so publicly displayed, your faith can just as boldly come out from the shade.   

Fight for your babies... God will allow you to win every battle.


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## CoilyFields (Sep 7, 2012)

Galadriel said:


> Parents are the rightful and primary teachers of their children. If a parent wishes to teach his child about God, and that God is the Creator of the Universe, then so be it.
> 
> The two are only incompatible when atheist materialist ideology jumps in and declares that because of evolution, that there is no God or God did not create the universe.
> 
> Macro-evolution has holes and inconsistencies it needs to resolve, I think. Neither can evolution answer or demonstrate anything about God, because that's not its function.


 
Galadriel

Thanks was NOT enough! 

It really boggles the mind how folks act like macro-evolution is a proven fact! I mean, have people really STUDIED it? Half of true scientists dont even believe it anymore (believers and unbelievers)...but somehow it persists in our schools masquerading as truth...

De-NYED! Man get outta here Billy! It's my JOB as a christian parent to raise Christian children! How dare you tell me to keep my beliefs to myself? I mean I get enough of people trying to tell my that I should keep my religion out of politics but now I'm supposed to kick them outta my own home! The nerve!!!

As far as Im concerned science and CHristianity are not incompatible because God created science...we're just studying what he did trying to figure out how and why. I don't have to deny the bible and creation to respect good science. And as far as I'm concerned macro-evolution can _/ because it's still struggling for a firm foundation! 

Ugh! Yes, this has obviously gotten under my skin...


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## TracyNicole (Sep 7, 2012)

Galadriel said:
			
		

> Parents are the rightful and primary teachers of their children. If a parent wishes to teach his child about God, and that God is the Creator of the Universe, then so be it.
> 
> The two are only incompatible when atheist materialist ideology jumps in and declares that because of evolution, that there is no God or God did not create the universe.
> 
> Macro-evolution has holes and inconsistencies it needs to resolve, I think. Neither can evolution answer or demonstrate anything about God, because that's not its function.



This is exactly what I mean. No one said parents shouldn't teach their children about God. Please re-read what I said. The pervasive attitude that "my parents told me evolution is wrong" is what I have an issue with that. Your religious beliefs ate no excuse to be ignorant to what's going on around you.


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## Kalani (Sep 7, 2012)

Recently saw a video that relates to this discussion. The speaker is Louie Giglio (to those who might be familiar with him) and it's about science and God and how He is revealed through His creation. Very cool video but long so watch at your leisure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAzCP8SEKwc


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> Galadriel
> 
> Thanks was NOT enough!
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2012)

TracyNicole said:


> This is exactly what I mean. No one said parents shouldn't teach their children about God. Please re-read what I said. The pervasive attitude that "my parents told me evolution is wrong" is what I have an issue with that. Your religious beliefs ate no excuse to be ignorant to what's going on around you.



God and Creation have nothing to do with religion.     And a child should be on guard for the lies that are attacking his/her faith.   

No teacher has a right to take issue with any child who refuses to accept a lie.  If anything teachers are the ones who are 'forcing' the world's beliefs upon innocent children who have no defense.     That's just wrong and it has no validation.    

What's happening in schools is that children who have been taught the truth from their parents/grandparents/older siblings are now being 'bullied'  (that's right, they are being bullied) and made to feel as outcasts simply because they aren't of the same beliefs.   

I'm not contending with you TracyNicole, as Christians we cannot allow the world to violate the existance of God which we must teach our children to PROTECT them.    We are to put on the full armour of God each day and to teach our children how to do the very same.    

Tracy, there was yet another shooting in a school today, actually TWO school shootings.   

One:

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local/illinois&id=8802413

Two: 

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/sep/07/kpd-investigates-shooting-across-from-austin/

This is because *God* has been 'kicked' out of school... You think not ? ??  It is BEYOND OBVIOUS ... BEYOND.  

Teaching Evolution is a work of satan to distract children from protecting themselves and trust me, the Word of God does indeed protect and fulfill its self, for God is watching over His Word to perform it.  

God does not lie, but evolution does.  Evolution says there is no God which is indeed a lie.   What these scientists are so blind about is that IF evolution did take place, it still needed God's force to evolve.   It didn't happen all by it's self.    

Baby, we cannot be fearful of standing upon who we are, whose we are and what we know to be true which is God Himself.     If a gunman is running crazy in the school (which is what is happening on a regular basis now), what can evolution do to save folks?    Not a an 'evolution' thing.   However, calling on the name of Jesus will immediately dispatch the power and the presence of God and His angels to move and act on behalf of those in danger.  

I don't like what I'm seeing in the Body of Christ.  Christians are just accepting anything the world hands them and then we end up with folks in deep trouble not knowing how to get out from under.   And why is this?  They put God on the dusty shelf when they enter the enemy's camp, the public school system, and wherever else God is not allowed... and they are afraid to let their lights shine.   Shining your light isn't forcing your faith down someone's throat, it's leading them out of darkness.   Now if a person doesn't want to hear it, fine, keep it moving.   However we cannot sit and allow ourselves to be doormats for satan and his cohorts.   We're not called to do that.   God's Word is very clear about this.     

Love and blessings to you...


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 7, 2012)

If you haven't seen "The Truth Project", you need to see it.  It points people to a Biblical Worldview, which also shares information from both Christian and non-Christian.

It's so good that it will make you see that what you thought you knew, was somewhat wrong.  Powerful, thought-provoking and it will help you to be able to share the Gospel in a whole different way!

Here is a trailer from the Truth Project:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ8ikrDisDU


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## TracyNicole (Sep 7, 2012)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> God and Creation have nothing to do with religion.     And a child should be on guard for the lies that are attacking his/her faith.
> 
> No teacher has a right to take issue with any child who refuses to accept a lie.  If anything teachers are the ones who are 'forcing' the world's beliefs upon innocent children who have no defense.     That's just wrong and it has no validation.
> 
> ...



I'm going to leave this at you are entitled to your opinion. I happen to have the view that Christianity and belief in God are not incompatible. 

Furthermore, taking God out of the equation is not the only problem in our schools. if this is your belief to each his own. I'm not fearful of my faith. Funny how it's a parents right to protect and instruct their children and not a teacher's place when I would say the great majority of children aren't raised by their parents. In my opinion, that's the real problem in this country.

I wasn't there when they wrote the Bible and honestly we can cling to the belief that every word in there is the literal truth but I will say this, corruption and evil have been spreading through this world since the fall. Who is to say how He literally fashioned this Earth and our being. That a day consists of 24 hours when in fact time is a man made concept? I pray and ask for the correct path forward to be revealed. In my most humble opinion that gives me far more comfort sleeping at night, than getting caught up fighting over the words of man.


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2012)

TracyNicole said:


> I'm going to leave this at you are entitled to your opinion. I happen to have the view that Christianity and belief in God are not incompatible.
> 
> Furthermore, taking God out of the equation is not the only problem in our schools. if this is your belief to each his own. I'm not fearful of my faith. Funny how it's a parents right to protect and instruct their children and not a teacher's place when I would say the great majority of children aren't raised by their parents. In my opinion, that's the real problem in this country.
> 
> ...



But aren't you doing the same by taking the words of man regarding evolution?    Again, I'm not contending with you.   Not at all.    You say you weren't there when the Bible was written.   Are you saying you were there when the man-made theory of evolution evolved? 

Nevertheless, I'm not going to deride Galadriel's thread; you disagree with the Word of God and that's your choice which I will leave alone.    

Take care.


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 7, 2012)

TracyNicole said:


> I'm going to leave this at you are entitled to your opinion. I happen to have the view that Christianity and belief in God are not incompatible.
> 
> Furthermore, taking God out of the equation is not the only problem in our schools. if this is your belief to each his own. I'm not fearful of my faith. Funny how it's a parents right to protect and instruct their children and not a teacher's place when I would say the great majority of children aren't raised by their parents. In my opinion, that's the real problem in this country.
> 
> ...


If you don't believe the Bible, which IS God's Word, then there is only one thing I can say....I hope you come to know that God loves you and desires for you to be with Him for eternity.  

Praying for you.


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## TracyNicole (Sep 7, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> If you don't believe the Bible, which IS God's Word, then there is only one thing I can say....I hope you come to know that God loves you and desires for you to be with Him for eternity.
> 
> Praying for you.



I'll always accept prayer.  Don't get what I said confused though.  There is a difference between having faith in God and absolute faith that a book you read is a true and complete representation of the word of God.  My gaurd is always up.  There have been many edits to the book we have modern day and I believe you must be guided by the Lord moving in your spirit and use the gift of discernment, which we have received through his grace.  Now that's that for me.  God bless!


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2012)

Galadriel... I want share this with you and how on time the Lord has used you to post this thread.  

My babygirl (she's my baby grand and a pre-teen   ) she loves reading the book of Job.   I mean of all of the books in the Bible, she put off TV and started reading the book of Job this summer.   And she's in Florida where she could have gone anywhere to have fun.   But she chose, to study her Bible.   Gala, my baby's LOVE God's Word and you should hear them pray... they ain't playin' games.  They truly love the Lord and have no shame in sharing the love of God with others.  

Guess where she is right now in the chapters of Job? :   Guess...  

Job 38... *The Creation Chapter...  *  The chapter when God stepped in and started speaking to Job.

May I post it?   I mean this is just too awesome.


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 7, 2012)

TracyNicole said:


> I'll always accept prayer.  Don't get what I said confused though.  There is a difference between having faith in God and absolute faith that a book you read is a true and complete representation of the word of God.  My gaurd is always up.  There have been many edits to the book we have modern day and I believe you must be guided by the Lord moving in your spirit and use the gift of discernment, which we have received through his grace.  Now that's that for me.  God bless!


Prayer is a great thing to do!

No, I'm not confused by what you said...I completely understood.  If you have a guard that is always up, you will not be able to receive the Word in its fullness.

If you read any book, and believe what it says because it was written by someone that may share your worldviews, than surely you can believe the Word of God, the Bible, because it was written with you in mind

Will continue to pray for you...be blessed!


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> If you don't believe the Bible, which IS God's Word, then there is only one thing I can say....I hope you come to know that God loves you and desires for you to be with Him for eternity.
> 
> Praying for you.



I had to leave that comment alone.  I just couldn't believe if I was seeing what it looked like.   

Sis, my babygirl is reading the book of Job and I was too through when she told me she was not playing until she finished.   She loves reading her Bible.  

I'm so glad our children know God (yours, mine and many of our sisters here on this forum.)   And it's not forced upon them.   Our children know the truth and the truth reigns in their hearts and has set them free.   

Praise God.


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## DDTexlaxed (Sep 7, 2012)

Most worldly wisdom will deny Creation because it is contrary to their nature. The Bible says a physical man can't understand things of a spiritual nature. Also, worldy wisdom is foolishness with God. Satan, the god of this world, promotes the opposite of truth. This is why it is up to parents to teach their children the truth about God. They also need to watch things their children read and learn in school. Evolution is taught as a doctrine in schools. It is preached about in wild life shows and is accepted as fact in the world. This doctrine has made the world more demonic. They feel like they are accountable to no one but themselves.   In fact, if you don't believe in evolution, most in higher eduction give you the side eye.


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2012)

DDTexlaxed said:


> Most worldly wisdom will deny Creation because it is contrary to their nature. The Bible says a physical man can't understand things of a spiritual nature. Also, worldy wisdom is foolishness with God. Satan, the god of this world, promotes the opposite of truth. This is why it is up to parents to teach their children the truth about God. They also need to watch things their children read and learn in school. Evolution is taught as a doctrine in schools. It is preached about in wild life shows and is accepted as fact in the world. This doctrine has made the world more demonic. They feel like they are accountable to no one but themselves.   ..
> 
> *In fact, if you don't believe in evolution, most in higher eduction give you the side eye.   *


...

DDTexlaxed

The bolded.... this is sooooooo true.   

I am soooo serious.   I go to Whole Foods and other health food stores and I'm telling you, many of the folks who shop in these stores are 'evolutionists' and they dress weird and talk weird.   Everything is about the 'Universe'.   What the Universe has to say ... what the Universe has to offer.   I mean these people are straight up granola and nuts and raisins with this Universe craziness.     I have to ask them, where is God who created the Universe?  

That's when they look at you (I need Nice & Wavy's Samuel Jackson gif) with a major side eye and they walk away real fast in a scurry (scared and hurry).


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 7, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> I had to leave that comment alone.  I just couldn't believe if I was seeing what it looked like.
> 
> Sis, my babygirl is reading the book of Job and I was too through when she told me she was not playing until she finished.   She loves reading her Bible.
> 
> ...





Shimmie said:


> ...
> 
> @DDTexlaxed
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


>





That's the one....  

He cracks me up...  


But that's the look they give me  ....


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 7, 2012)

TracyNicole said:


> I actually get what he is saying though.  Some people take the Bible in the most literal sense and if you do, Creationism and evolution are simply incompatible.  It is still possible to be Christian and a good scientist.
> 
> *While I don't think we need to ban the story of creation from Sunday school, *parents definitely need to keep it to themselves if they believe in Creationism to the exclusion of evolution because it does create an intellectual conundrum that I believe you have to find an understanding within yourself to get past.  I spent a ton of time in prayer during my first year in teaching because I did not want to impress my beliefs on others.



Creationism is great when it's taught in Sunday school or parochial school where it belongs. The problem is people trying to crowbar Creationism into science curriculums in secular schools. Creationism is not science, it's religion.  These two fields of discipline have no reason to cross streams.


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## Galadriel (Sep 7, 2012)

TracyNicole said:


> This is exactly what I mean. No one said parents shouldn't teach their children about God. Please re-read what I said. The pervasive attitude that "my parents told me evolution is wrong" is what I have an issue with that. Your religious beliefs ate no excuse to be ignorant to what's going on around you.



That God is the First Cause, the Intelligent Designer and Creator is a fundamental belief of Christianity. So to tell someone not to teach their child that God is Creator, is to tell that person not to teach about God.

As for your comment regarding religious belief and ignorance, this is exactly the type of bigoted mentality that I disagree with. Many scientists throughout history have been deeply religious, and some of them were priests or clerics. 

Because God created a stable, natural world endowed with goodness, we believe in studying, examining, and understanding it.


----------



## Galadriel (Sep 7, 2012)

TracyNicole said:


> I'll always accept prayer.  Don't get what I said confused though.  There is a difference between having faith in God and absolute faith that a book you read is a true and complete representation of the word of God.  My gaurd is always up.  There have been many edits to the book we have modern day and I believe you must be guided by the Lord moving in your spirit and use the gift of discernment, which we have received through his grace.  Now that's that for me.  God bless!



This isn't meant as an attack TracyNicole, but if the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God, then why believe anything the Bible says? If you can't trust what the Bible teaches us about creation, then why trust what it says about Christ? Or good and evil? Or the resurrection and eternal life?


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Creationism is great when it's taught in Sunday school or parochial school where it belongs. The problem is people trying to crowbar Creationism into science curriculums in secular schools. Creationism is not science, it's religion.  These two fields of discipline have no reason to cross streams.



What ? ? ? 








What about public schools crowbaring evolution into the minds of children who are unable to defend themselves.    These schools are actually telling the children that their parents are lying regarding Creation... which is wrong!  

See, I know what's going on.      The devil is bent on separating this generation from God.


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## Galadriel (Sep 7, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Creationism is great when it's taught in Sunday school or parochial school where it belongs. The problem is people trying to crowbar Creationism into science curriculums in secular schools. Creationism is not science, it's religion.  These two fields of discipline have no reason to cross streams.



I think Intelligent Design should be taught in schools, because much in this world and in the universe are intelligently designed, in addition to organisms with irreducible complexity (which cannot be biochemically explained by natural selection/macroevolution).


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## aribell (Sep 8, 2012)

Galadriel said:
			
		

> I think Intelligent Design should be taught in schools, because much in this world and in the universe are intelligently designed, in addition to organisms with irreducible complexity (which cannot be biochemically explained by natural selection/macroevolution).



Ita.  ID is based on the anthropoc principle, which is 100% based on scientific fact.  ID is often assumed to be reading from Genesi and it is not.  William Dembski has written a lot about this.  William Lane Craig is another source who writes of the logical fallacies in the reasoning often used to discount intelligent design.

The problem with science as it is often taught today is that students are taught to assume that anything other tgan the mainstream thought is not credible.  Many people defend scientific schools of thought that they honestly could not explain tye first principles of with accuracy.  Not that we all need to be a science wiz to be informed; but I think it's both interesting and concerning that people defend so strongly what they can't really verify/test themselves, which just seems like conditioning.  Macro evolution is defended and ID mocked not because most have drawn that conclusion themselves but because they have been continuously taught that such is what reasonable people believe.

So much thought control in this society.

Eta:  sorry for all the phone typos!


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## TracyNicole (Sep 8, 2012)

Galadriel said:


> That God is the First Cause, the Intelligent Designer and Creator is a fundamental belief of Christianity. So to tell someone not to teach their child that God is Creator, is to tell that person not to teach about God.
> 
> As for your comment regarding religious belief and ignorance, this is exactly the type of bigoted mentality that I disagree with. Many scientists throughout history have been deeply religious, and some of them were priests or clerics.
> 
> Because God created a stable, natural world endowed with goodness, we believe in studying, examining, and understanding it.



*Excuse you!* My statements were not bigoted at all.  You know I was going to type out this long response but it's just not worth it.  You are entitled to your opinion.  You have no facts to support your position and are unwilling to have intelligent discussion so I'll leave it at have a nice day.


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## Shimmie (Sep 8, 2012)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Ita.  ID is based on the anthropoc principle, which is 100% based on scientific fact.  ID is often assumed to be reading from Genesi and it is not.  William Dembski has written a lot about this.  William Lane Craig is another source who writes of the logical fallacies in the reasoning often used to discount intelligent design.
> 
> The problem with science as it is often taught today is that students are taught to assume that anything other tgan the mainstream thought is not credible.  Many people defend scientific schools of thought that they honestly could not explain tye first principles of with accuracy.  Not that we all need to be a science wiz to be informed; but I think it's both interesting and concerning that people defend so strongly what they can't really verify/test themselves, which just seems like conditioning.  Macro evolution is defended and ID mocked not because most have drawn that conclusion themselves but because they have been continuously taught that such is what reasonable people believe.
> 
> ...



  Sure is.   The mind is the 'soil' where the thoughts are planted and cultivated.    The fertilizer is hell's dung, and the water is polluted it's raw sewage.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (Sep 8, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> What ? ? ?



Step away from confused Sam Jackson and embrace focused Sam Jackson. Here he go.







Shimmie said:


> What about public schools crowbaring evolution into the minds of children who are unable to defend themselves.



1. The average underfunded, overcrowded, public school sysem in this country can barely crowbar reading, writing and arithmetic into children.  

2. There is no crowbarring scientific theory into science.  Evolution is part of science, to take it out is like drawing a face without eyes and trying to pass it off as complete.   



Shimmie said:


> These schools are actually telling the children that their parents are lying regarding Creation... which is wrong!



A teacher who said that to a child would be fired.  What I know of the first court case challenging evolution is that the child was taught about Darwins theory and the parents demanded that the school include Creationism.  That's a big difference from a teacher calling parents a lie. 



Shimmie said:


> See, I know what's going on.      The devil is bent on separating this generation from God.





> In 1610, Galileo Galilei used a a telescope he built to observe the solar system, and deduced that the planets orbit the sun, not the earth.
> 
> This contradicted Church teachings, and some of the clergy accused and convicted Galileo of heresy.
> 
> It took 300 years after his years spent in house arrest and eventual death for the Church to acknowledge that Galileo was right.



I bet these folks thought the devil was bent on separating their generation from G-d as well.  

Just sayin


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 8, 2012)

Galadriel said:


> I think Intelligent Design should be taught in schools, because much in this world and in the universe are intelligently designed, in addition to organisms with irreducible complexity (which cannot be biochemically explained by natural selection/macroevolution).



Philosophy and organic chemistry have these subjects covered.  

Intelligent Design or Creationism or all the other euphemisms for Theology should be taught in church or through parochial education.


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## DDTexlaxed (Sep 9, 2012)

Evolution teaches how we came from apes and everything supposedly started from organisms in the water. If that is so, why is there so many "natural" laws? Why is it there still monkeys on the earth, if we came from them and replaced them as the dominant species? Scientists can't explain why or how come animals we supposedly came from can't talk or recognize their reflection in the mirror. They have recognized that the tonsils, a body part they once thought was of minor value, is the first defense against colds. In fact, they still can't explain why our brain is able to store more information than a super computer or why most use  very small percentage of it. It is amazing on how they go to great extents to disprove the existence of God, yet claim how evolution somehow through blind chance made things come about. It is too much order in the world for blind chance to make things just right.


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## CoilyFields (Sep 9, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:
			
		

> Philosophy and organic chemistry have these subjects covered.
> 
> Intelligent Design or Creationism or all the other euphemisms for Theology should be taught in church or through parochial education.



Neither good scientist nor a good science class would discount an extremely credible theory because of personal bias. People are against intelligent design because it would lead to religion of some sort and (in America at least ) we have an obsession with keeping religion in its respective temples. Intelligent design is only feared/blackballed because proving the existence of the creator would  also lead to morality and the accompanying implications.
 Basically what I am saying is that the absence is not an objective decision. No other explanations have so much evidence and yet have been so disregarded as a viable respected theory.


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 9, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> No other explanations have so much evidence and yet have been so disregarded as a viable respected theory.



Physical evidence derived from fossil research supports Evolutionary Theory. What physical evidence is there for Intelligent Design?


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 9, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Step away from confused Sam Jackson and embrace focused Sam Jackson. Here he go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're speaking from the heart of an 'unbeliever'.    

Those who know and love God do not deny His presence nor existance in any aspect of life.   In the beginning was God and He Still is and He will always be, and He will always love, even those who choose to exclude Him.


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 9, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> You're speaking from the heart of an 'unbeliever'.



Well, if a persons heart condition needs to have a certain status to embrace Creationism or Intelligent Design, then it's best left to be taught in church.


----------



## CoilyFields (Sep 9, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:
			
		

> Physical evidence derived from fossil research supports Evolutionary Theory. What physical evidence is there for Intelligent Design?



The exact and perfect measurements, proportions, and intricate workings of a simple cell. The building blocks of life are waaaaaay more complex than our most advanced super computer and works in such harmony with the world around it that it points way more toward a designer than millions of random mutations. Also the fact that mutations cannot explain purpose. Everything we have has a purpose. In evolution everything (all these separate living organisms and ecosystems) are lead by random chance (or if you wanna go there then a desire to survive which would still leave the question of where that desire came from but anyways..
). From that standpoint evolution is simply illogical when weighing the probability of millions of factors coming together to form us and the world we live in...by chance. We would never apply this kind of "logic " to anything else. When I see a car I know that it is waaaaaay to complex to have randomly made itself or rather evolved from a pile of steel etc. Even if I found a wagon,  a carriage,  a model T Ford and a Hummer I would never assume that it had morphed itself into something purposeful. I would look for its creator.


----------



## CoilyFields (Sep 9, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:
			
		

> Well, if a persons heart condition needs to have a certain status to embrace Creationism or Intelligent Design, then it's best left to be taught in church.



 I know this wasnt addressed to me but it kinda speaks to what I was saying before that many who are not believers will out of hand reject intelligent design without having done any research into whether it is a credible theory or not. They reject a religion rather than intelligent design.
 Also there are tons of Sciences believers and non believers who to believe in intelligent design. But this is always left out of any discussion in school and society for reasons that I stated above.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (Sep 9, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> I know this wasnt addressed to me but it kinda speaks to what I was saying before that many who are not believers will out of hand reject intelligent design without having done any research into whether it is a credible theory or not. They reject a religion rather than intelligent design.
> Also there are tons of Sciences believers and non believers who to believe in intelligent design. But this is always left out of any discussion in school and society for reasons that I stated above.



I am a practicing Jew. I belive in G-d and I also believe in science. 

I reject Creationism or Intelligent Design because it is Theology marketed as science.  I have read Sean McDonald's "Understanding Creative Design" and  "Intelligent Design" by William Dembski along with countless articles on the subject.   So I did not pull my assertion out of the air.

I take what goes into the public school curriculum very seriously.  If we are going to teach children about science then teach them science.  Trying to sneak religion into science does a disservice to the children and does not make the 'sneakers' smell so fresh either.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (Sep 9, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> The exact and perfect measurements, proportions, and intricate workings of a simple cell. The building blocks of life are waaaaaay more complex than our most advanced super computer and works in such harmony with the world around it that it points way more toward a designer than millions of random mutations. Also the fact that mutations cannot explain purpose. Everything we have has a purpose. In evolution everything (all these separate living organisms and ecosystems) are lead by random chance (or if you wanna go there then a desire to survive which would still leave the question of where that desire came from but anyways..
> ). From that standpoint evolution is simply illogical when weighing the probability of millions of factors coming together to form us and the world we live in...by chance. We would never apply this kind of "logic " to anything else. When I see a car I know that it is waaaaaay to complex to have randomly made itself or rather evolved from a pile of steel etc. Even if I found a wagon,  a carriage,  a model T Ford and a Hummer I would never assume that it had morphed itself into something purposeful. I would look for its creator.



What you have described is philosophy which is exactly the curriculum that Theology falls into not Science.


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## Shimmie (Sep 9, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> I am a practicing Jew. I belive in G-d and I also believe in science.
> 
> I reject Creationism or Intelligent Design because it is Theology marketed as science.  I have read Sean McDonald's "Understanding Creative Design" and  "Intelligent Design" by William Dembski along with countless articles on the subject.   So I did not pull my assertion out of the air.
> 
> I take what goes into the public school curriculum very seriously.  If we are going to teach children about science then teach them science.  Trying to sneak religion into science does a disservice to the children and does not make the 'sneakers' smell so fresh either.



sneaking religion?   It's actually the other way around.  Evolution is used to 'sneak' atheism into the minds of innocent children.    If anything it should not be taught at all, simply because it's all based upon a lie, in an attempt to exclude God who is indeed real.   In truth evolution is where the sneakers exist...and the smell is indeed polluted.     

In the presence of God and respect for Him is the sweet fragrance which this entire world needs.   It's the absence of God that is the cause for so much evil  that is in our schools.   The children and teachers have no hope; evolution is unable to give hope or life.  People are dying because the true life has been shut out and kept away from them. 

It's sad that we live in a world where the ONE solution to the ills of this world is so widely rejected and refused and instead of being called 'God', He's called a sneak.   God doesn't deserve that... He doesn't.   What has He done to deserve it?   Nothing, except encournter the hardness of people's hearts who will use any reason / excuse not to accept Him, but to reject all that He is.

Phinn, sooner or later none of us can continue to "Practice" God, we have to drop the falacies of rejection and either accept all that God is or leave Him alone all together.   However there is no middle ground, for anyone.    The raffle ticket for blaming others for not accepting Christ, has no winners, the event has expired, there was never a prize; only a path into darkness, losing one's soul. 

This 'thing' evolution is a lost cause.  What has it done to benefit the children?  What has it done to reduce school crimes, chilren killing children; teachers with so many odds against them that they've been rendered incapable of being effective and a positive influence upon their students.  

With God, these children would be safer and their needs would be met; the teachers would have the walls of resistance changed into walls of protection. 

God was never meant to be eliminated from any school, public or private.


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 9, 2012)

G-d is in all things, including evolution.

Prove me wrong.


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## Shimmie (Sep 9, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> G-d is in all things, including evolution.
> 
> Prove me wrong.



Phinn, there's nothing to prove.   Without God there would be no Heaven and Earth and all of creation; it's the scientists who are leaving God out, and calling evolution 'god', not giving God credit for all that exists.   

What non-believers, the this government and the school system has done was remove God from the 'equation' and making it seem as if all of creation simply 'evolved' without any existance of God.   

It ironic, because they speak of this 'force' which caused things to evolve, which indeed proves that God does exist.  Yet these folks do all they can to dismiss His existance.    It's messed up and the 'mess' is spreading more and more causing more mess in our schools and in society.   It's a mess and only God can fix it, however He's been pushed out.


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 10, 2012)

Just thought I'd interject...a little

````````````````
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/quotes.html#.UE1mx1Q3zEM

*Quotes from Scientists Regarding Design of the Universe
by Rich Deem

*

*Introduction *

  Does science lead us down a road that ends in the naturalistic explanation of everything we see? In the nineteenth century, it certainly looked as though science was going in that direction. The "God of the gaps" was finding himself in a narrower and narrower niche. However, 20th century and now 21st century science is leading us back down the road of design - not from a _lack_ of scientific explanation, but from scientific explanation that requires an appeal to the extremely unlikely - something that science does not deal well with. As a result of the recent evidence in support of design, many scientists now believe in God. According to a recent article:"I was reminded of this a few months ago when I saw a survey in the   journal _Nature_. It revealed that 40% of American physicists, biologists   and mathematicians believe in God--and not just some metaphysical abstraction,   but a deity who takes an active interest in our affairs and hears our prayers:   the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."(1)​The degree to which the constants of physics must match a precise criteria is such that a number of agnostic scientists have concluded that there is some sort of "supernatural plan" or "Agency" behind it. Here is what they say:
*
The quotes* 

_Fred Hoyle__ (British astrophysicist)_: "A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." (2)

_George Ellis__ (British astrophysicist)_: "Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word." (3)

_Paul Davies__ (British astrophysicist)_: "There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming". (4)

_Paul Davies_: "The laws [of physics] ... seem to be the product of exceedingly ingenious design... The universe must have a purpose". (5)

_Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy)_: "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing." (6)

_John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA)_: "We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)

_George Greenstein__ (astronomer)_: "As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)

_Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist)_: "The idea of a universal mind or Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present state of scientific theory." (9)

_Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics)_: "Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say 'supernatural') plan." (10)

_Roger Penrose (mathematician and author)_: "I would say the universe has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)

_Tony Rothman (physicist)_: "When confronted with the order and beauty of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)

_Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist)_: "The exquisite order displayed by our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the divine." (13)

_Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic)_: "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." (14)

_Stephen Hawking__ (British astrophysicist)_: "Then we shall… be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God." (15)

_Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics)_: "When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) 

Note: Tipler since has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest  book,  _The Physics Of  Christianity_.

_Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician)_: "We know that nature is described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created it."(17)

_Ed Harrison (cosmologist)_: "Here is the cosmological proof of the existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one.... Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the teleological or design argument." (18)

_Edward Milne (British cosmologist)_: "As to the cause of the Universe, in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)

_Barry Parker (cosmologist)_: "Who created these laws? There is no question but that a God will always be needed." (20)


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Sep 10, 2012)

_Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists)_: "This type of universe,  however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial  conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)

_Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981 Nobel Prize in physics)_:  "It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the  universe, one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers  are religious. . . . I find a need for God in the universe and in my own  life." (22)

_Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and  director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the  University of Georgia)_: "The significance and joy in my science  comes in those occasional moments of discovering something new and  saying to myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a  little corner of God's plan." (23)

_Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer)_ "I find it as  difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the  presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe  as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of  science." (24)

_Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois)_  "Life in Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street.  One day I can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the  100 billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed  and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would contain  microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that the  anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out of an  uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to that aspect  of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may extend to  chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be entirely  unique." (25)






Antony Flew (_Professor of Philosophy, former atheist, author, and debater_) "It now seems to me that the findings of more than fifty years of  DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design." (26)

_Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics)_: "From the       perspective of the latest physical theories, Christianity is not a  mere      religion, but an experimentally testable science." (27)


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 10, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Just thought I'd interject...a little
> 
> ````````````````
> http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/quotes.html#.UE1mx1Q3zEM
> ...



The smile on God's face...soft and rejoicing to have won the hearts of men who once did not believe.    

"The Beauty of the Cross"

Thank you, N&W ...  for making God's heart smile.


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 10, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Phinn, there's nothing to prove.




Actually, the statement as I expressed it is a tenant that proponents of Intelligent Design use to support their arguement.  Quite frankly someone with more than superficial knowledge of the subject would have identified it as support for I.D.  

Yet, you dismissed it outright.

Do you even know what it is that you are supporting?


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 10, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Actually, the statement as I expressed it is a tenant that proponents of Intelligent Design use to support their arguement.  Quite frankly someone with more than superficial knowledge of the subject would have identified it as support for I.D.
> 
> Yet, you dismissed it outright.
> 
> Do you even know what it is that you are supporting?



You've been contradicting yourself up post, so the question actually applies to you.   

I'm solid on my support, God's Word, nothing about Him should be eliminated in any aspect of life and pertaining to the topic of this thread, God should not eliminated from public schools.  

If you haven't figured that out by now... 



You disagree with it, which is what you've never failed to convey.


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 10, 2012)

So your answer is that you don't know anything about Intelligent Design, but this topic that you don't know anything about should be inserted into the school system? 

Got it.


----------



## aribell (Sep 10, 2012)

I think an important question is what the purpose of education is in the first place.  It is impossible to speak of isolated scientific facts without drawing together a broader interpretation of their significance, which is exactly why so many believe that science has "disproven" faith...because the interpretation of facts that was presented to them was hostile to a religious p.o.v. or presented in such a way as to suggest that religious faith is either irrelevant or something only for individuals on a personal level, as if it has no bearing on the world in general.

Education is formation of the mind, will, and emotions (soul) to become a person who values certain things and has the knowledge to accomplish certain tasks.  I do not believe that it is possible to sequester faith away from education overall, since one's worldview (religious or secular) will determine what the purpose of being educated is in the first place.  Being considered "educated" is very much relative to the cultural milieu in which one lives.

Public schooling is not the ideal scenario to speak of.  It's an imperfect solution to a need that can't be filled elsewhere at the moment, but the concept overall generates many issues.  Many don't seem to bat an eye at the idea of the government deciding how children should be formed (or, as one parent shared, what their child can eat--parents were prohibited from packing their kids' lunches).  The one doing the educating shapes pupils in ways _they_ see fit and for _their_ overall purposes.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Sep 10, 2012)

Shimmie

I'm reminded of this

Colossians 1:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 
 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 




Shimmie said:


> Phinn, there's nothing to prove. Without God there would be no Heaven and Earth and all of creation; it's the scientists who are leaving God out, and calling evolution 'god', not giving God credit for all that exists.
> 
> What non-believers, the this government and the school system has done was remove God from the 'equation' and making it seem as if all of creation simply 'evolved' without any existance of God.
> 
> It ironic, because they speak of this 'force' which caused things to evolve, which indeed proves that God does exist. Yet these folks do all they can to dismiss His existance. It's messed up and the 'mess' is spreading more and more causing more mess in our schools and in society. It's a mess and only God can fix it, however He's been pushed out.


----------



## CoilyFields (Sep 10, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> I am a practicing Jew. I belive in G-d and I also believe in science.
> 
> I reject Creationism or Intelligent Design because it is Theology marketed as science. I have read Sean McDonald's "Understanding Creative Design" and "Intelligent Design" by William Dembski along with countless articles on the subject. So I did not pull my assertion out of the air.
> 
> I take what goes into the public school curriculum very seriously. If we are going to teach children about science then teach them science. Trying to sneak religion into science does a disservice to the children and does not make the 'sneakers' smell so fresh either.


 
Crackers Phinn

Ok. Im a little confused. 
Can you please answer the following questions so that I understand your viewpoint better:

1. How are you a practicing Jew but reject intelligent design? (FYI I am not trying to be facetious at all but am genuinely curious). Are you a theistic evolutionist? 

2. Do you think that the way that evolution is taught in school is objective? 

3. How do you reconcile natural selection with the Mosaic interpretation of the begining and purpose for life?

4. Do you believe that Evolution is a fact or a probable theory? 

5. Do you believe that since the majority of peoples in the world (especially america) believes in some sort of diety that it would be fair to offer an alternative theory in a science class (along with whatever pros/cons, holes etc. exists-as long as they do the same for evolution)? I say science and not philosophy because if we went that route then natural selection should not be taught either due to the fact that it attaches motives that it can't really support.

Thank you in advance...


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## Crackers Phinn (Sep 10, 2012)

1. How are you a practicing Jew but reject intelligent design? (FYI I am not trying to be facetious at all but am genuinely curious). Are you a theistic evolutionist? 

*I reject Intelligent Design as Science.  I accept it as Theology.  

I will take a Doctor who has studied biology (i.e. science) over one that has studied Intelligent Design all day every day.  I know there are people who believe in praying sickness away and they are free to do that.  I'ma ride this Doctor thing out till the wheels fall off.*

2. Do you think that the way that evolution is taught in school is objective? 
*Just as objectively as english, math, social studies, etc. *

3. How do you reconcile natural selection with the *Mosaic interpretation of the begining and purpose for life*?

*I don't understand the question specifically the bolded.   *

4. Do you believe that Evolution is a fact or a probable theory? 

*Probable based on physical evidence that supports most if not all of the theory.*

5. Do you believe that since the majority of peoples in the world (especially america) believes in some sort of diety that it would be fair to offer an alternative theory in a science class (along with whatever pros/cons, holes etc. exists-as long as they do the same for evolution)? I say science and not philosophy because if we went that route then natural selection should not be taught either due to the fact that it attaches motives that it can't really support.

*What you are saying is to put religion in the classroom wherever it can fit and if that just happens to be science, then oh well.   

Trying to stuff a square peg into a round hole does not change the shape of the peg or the hole. 

No.  All things deity related is Theology and should be studied within the confines of parochial private education or Church study. *


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## auparavant (Sep 10, 2012)

I believe in the creation story as partly narrative of Genesis.  I believe that people probably evolved or that there were beings similar to humans.  I also believe that the world has taken millions of years to develop.  Science and creationism can merge if Genesis is taken as a narrative and not as strictly chronological.


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## RegaLady (Sep 10, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> G-d is in all things, including evolution.
> 
> Prove me wrong.


 
 ITA!


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## RegaLady (Sep 10, 2012)

auparavant said:


> I believe in the creation story as partly narrative of Genesis. I believe that people probably evolved or that there were beings similar to humans. I also believe that the world has taken millions of years to develop. Science and creationism can merge if Genesis is taken as a narrative and not as strictly chronological.


 
Interesting.

I have taken mythology courses and many cultures had their own version of creation, some inspired by Christianity others not. No one was there when the world was made and what we know today in creation stories was man's way of trying to conceptualize how the world began. I tend to go with science considering there are logical studies put into the work, however I think this forming of things was brought forth by a force in which we call "God". I think the two can coexist but on a personal level considering all religions have their own form of creationism. Not everyone believes in a Christian God so it would be unfair to teach it in public schools.


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## auparavant (Sep 10, 2012)

Remember Big Bang theory...I've thought of it in terms of Genesis...."And G-d said, 'Let there be light.'"  Voila', Big Bang.  It just didn't happen by itself but was guided...but it surely took a long time for all this to have formed imho.


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## loveafterwar (Sep 11, 2012)

Crackers Phinn said:


> *Philosophy* and organic chemistry have these subjects covered.
> 
> Intelligent Design or Creationism or all the other euphemisms for Theology should be taught in church or through parochial education.


 
I took Philosophy of Religion last year in school....that was a deeeeeeeeppppppp class.


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## loveafterwar (Sep 11, 2012)

DDTexlaxed said:


> Evolution teaches how we came from apes and everything supposedly started from organisms in the water.


 
Very common misconception actually. Evolution doesn't explain how life started. It seeks to explain how life has changed.  In Darwin's (a minister) _Origin of Species_ he didn't say anything about where humans came from. They say humans and apes share a common ancestor.  I personally don't believe that, but seeing as I'm a science major I understand evolution perfectly. I think that evolution and creationism can co-exist and don't believe that they have to be pitted against each other. Science and religion get along just fine with me so I don't get why people think you have to completely embrace one and deny the other.


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## auparavant (Sep 12, 2012)

If a thousand years are like one day, then what are years?  Perhaps millions?  Genesis is narrative.  Does not mean it's not true, but that it's not exactly chronological in the sense that we know the exact times.


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## Blackpearl1993 (Sep 13, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> I'm laughing at the bolded above;  "experience some form of results"
> 
> Seriously though....
> 
> ...



Amen, amen! Each of us needs to be and raise our children to be justice keepers in the gate. We must be willing to give up ALL in order to please God. Don't be afraid to be "different". Hubby and I are criticized often for the choices we make regarding our children. I don't care. We are the ones who will answer directly to God for how we stewarded the children HE gave to us.


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## Blackpearl1993 (Sep 13, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> ...
> 
> DDTexlaxed
> 
> ...



Okay.... I read this and laughed so loud I almost woke up everyone in the house (it's currently 3:00 a.m.). Thank a lot, Shimmie


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## Shimmie (Sep 14, 2012)

Blackpearl1993 said:


> Okay.... I read this and laughed so loud I almost woke up everyone in the house (it's currently 3:00 a.m.). Thank a lot, Shimmie



  You're so welcome my love...   

But it's true....   

AND Blessings to you and Hubby for standing without waivering;  we have to protect our children and guard their hearts with the knowledge, the love and armour of God.    Good for you.     Your children have champions for parents.


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## Shimmie (Sep 14, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> Shimmie
> 
> I'm reminded of this
> 
> ...



Iwanthealthyhair67 ....  

Awesome word, which cannot be refuted.  And it's so simple to understand.


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