# Protein in The Ingredients Does Not Necessarily Mean It's A Protein Conditioner



## Supergirl (Jul 10, 2006)

I think some are misunderstanding what a protein treatment is and are incorrectly "labeling" certain conditioners as protein treatments.  (example:  someone referred to ORS Replenishing as a protein conditioner--it isn't)  A protein treatment is usually specifically called such or it may be called a reconstructor.  There are a few other terms that are synonymous with "protein treatment." 

Many of your moisturizing conditioners will contain protein.  This is a GOOD thing.  For the hair cannot hold the moisture in without sufficient protein. 

I hope this will provide some clarity if anyone has been confused and I hope this will make choosing conditioners an easy and stress free task.


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## HoneyDew (Jul 10, 2006)

Thanks for posting this Supergirl.  I agree with you.

I started a thread a while back asking if there are ladies that DON'T use the harcore proteins. Some of the ladies were naming their protein treatments and some were just regular conditioners that had protein in them.  I just could not compare them to Emergencee or Apohgee or other concentrated protein conditioners/treaments.


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## 1QTPie (Jul 10, 2006)

Thanks for this.


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## Healthb4Length (Jul 10, 2006)

Oh thanks for this info! I didn't know, here I was thinking that all my "protein" conditioners were the deal. I've been noticing that my hair has been breaking despite doing all my weekly "protein" treatments, thanks for clarifying this. Now I may have to up the usage of my "hardcore" proteins to stop the breakage.


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## sweetascocoa (Jul 10, 2006)

yeah i saw that post about ORS. it didnt feel like a protein conditioner on my hair so i was like uhhh...


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## Sistaslick (Jul 10, 2006)

I agree!  Just about everything marketed for ethnic/textured hair contains some amount of protein.  SG is right.  The hair needs protein to accept moisture.  Protein shores up the holes and weak spots along the cuticle-  so if your hair is properly "proteinated" (is that even a word? ), it will be able to hold onto the moisture you give it much better.  Patching up the "holes" is very important for moisture retention.  To me, ORS replenishing pak is a light protein-based conditioner, not a treatment.

This is way I've always understood the conditioners vs. treatments/reconstructors thing-

There are conditioners with protein in them, with such low concentrations of proteins relative to moisturizers and humectants, that they give an overall moisturizing effect.  Humecto and CON Nourishing conditioner are both conditioners that contain protein, but yield an overall moisturizing benefit.  So, though they contain protein-- they are still considered _moisturizing conditioners. _

The next level would be _protein-based or "protein rich" conditioners_.  These are regular conditioners that contain higher amounts of protein, relative to their moisturizing and humectant-like agents.  These conditioners are generally more "surface-acting", contain larger protein molecules, and yield less dramatic results than â€œreconstructors. â€  Protein-based conditioners rinse away/wear off easily in a few days/washes because they do not penetrate the cuticle layers deeply.  LeKair Cholesterol, ORS Replenishing pak, and Mane N Tail come to mind for examples.  Because their formulas do contain moisturizing/conditioning agents, a moisturizing conditioner may not need to be used afterward.

The final level would be the _treatments/reconstructors_.  These contain the highest amounts of protein compared to moisturizing agents, and offer very little actual conditioning.  The results of reconstructors are usually more dramatic and longer lasting than protein-based conditioners, because they tend to contain concentrated, smaller hydrolized proteins that can penetrate and bind to the cuticle layers a little more deeply.   These also vary in protein concentration compared to one another, but as a whole tend to contain more protein than everyday protein-based conditioners.   Aphogee 2 Min Keratin reconstructor is an example of a light end reconstructor, and of course the Treatment for Damaged hair is on the heavy end.  Because their sole job is to "repair" and/or "reconstuct" these treatments don't offer much in the way of conditioning, and usually have to be followed by moisturizing conditioner. 

The protein concentrations, size, and type are what separate the â€œtreatments/reconstructorsâ€ from the regular protein-based conditioners, and other conditioners that contain protein but arenâ€™t necessarily protein conditioners.  Thats what I think anyway.


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## secretdiamond (Jul 10, 2006)

THANK YOU!!!!


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## kitchen_tician (Jul 10, 2006)

Thanks for posting this Supergirl, because I also noticed that some seemed confused.  I was just to lazy to comment and explain,  but I'm glad you shed the light. Thanks Supergirl! You've done it again! Supergirl to the rescue!!!


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## Synthia (Jul 10, 2006)

I see protein conditioners and protein treatments as two different things (and Supergirl ...do you see them as equivalents? You seem to use the terms interchangeably...) 

To me, anything with an influence of protein over moisture, I consider a protein conditioner. I consider eggs a protein conditioner and would consider Ors a protein conditioner. I consider any soft protein a conditioner.


If it's  med/heavy penetrating protein, I consider it a reconstructor/protein treatment. 

So, to me people have been using the terms pretty correctly.


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## firecracker (Jul 10, 2006)

There is a such thing as too much protein.  If you add frequent heat application and inadequate moisture you can end up with thin breaking burned yellow ends.


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## Angelicus (Jul 10, 2006)

Thank you supergirl. I mention this to people all the time.


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## MizaniMami (Jul 10, 2006)

I think a lot of people here are sort of afraid of protein/protein overload. So they are kinda leary of conditioners with protein.


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## mahogany66 (Jul 10, 2006)

THIS IS VERY INFORMATIVE.. THANKS


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## Sistaslick (Jul 10, 2006)

Synthia said:
			
		

> *I see protein conditioners and protein treatments as two different things* (and Supergirl ...do you see them as equivalents? You seem to use the terms interchangeably...)
> 
> *To me, anything with an influence of protein over moisture, I consider a protein conditioner. I consider eggs a protein conditioner and would consider Ors a protein conditioner. I consider any soft protein a conditioner.
> 
> ...



this is what I was thinking too.  You said it alot shorter though.


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## MissFallon (Jul 10, 2006)

Is Motions CPR a protein treatment? I've been saying it is and using it as one...am I wrong?


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## TwistNMx (Jul 10, 2006)

MissFallon said:
			
		

> Is Motions CPR a protein treatment? I've been saying it is and using it as one...am I wrong?


Good question.  I saw this product in Sallys yesterday.


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## Supergirl (Jul 11, 2006)

Synthia said:
			
		

> I see protein conditioners and protein treatments as two different things (and Supergirl ...do you see them as equivalents? You seem to use the terms interchangeably...)
> 
> To me, anything with an influence of protein over moisture, I consider a protein conditioner. I consider eggs a protein conditioner and would consider Ors a protein conditioner. I consider any soft protein a conditioner.
> 
> ...



Hmmm... never really thought about it.  I usually use the term "protein treatment."  I guess I would mean the same thing if I used the term "protein conditioner."


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## Supergirl (Jul 11, 2006)

MissFallon said:
			
		

> Is Motions CPR a protein treatment? I've been saying it is and using it as one...am I wrong?



For more clarity:

Is it a protein treatment?

Motions CPR--YES
Motions Moisture Silk Protein--YES
ORS Olive Oil--NO
Kenra Intensive Emollient--NO
Cholesterol Conditioners--NO
Elucence Extended Moisture Repair--YES (though the name says moisture)
Aphogee Treatment for Damaged Hair--YES*
Aphogee 2 Minute Keratin Reconstructor--YES
Joico K-Pak--YES (not starred, but I'd consider this semi-hardcore)
ORS Mayo--NO
Dudley DRC--YES*
Ultra Sheen Duotex--YES*
Nexxus Keraphix--YES
Nexxus Emergencee--YES*
Dudley Cream Protein--YES

*=hardcore, though there are different levels of hardcority (like my word?)  For example, a hardcore with keratin or animal protein is going to be stronger than one with collagen.  

Notice that the one with the stars are all products that come in liquid form.  They are so potent because they are straight protein (a few stabilizers and preservatives) with no creams and emollients to get in the way.  The protein goes straight on your hair strand unobstructed by other ingredients. 

Now, let's talk about what's really sad--I've used all of the above except 3!


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## Mestiza (Jul 11, 2006)

This is an outstanding thread that can help all of us!


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## alexstin (Jul 11, 2006)

Excellent info!!!


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## jasmin (Jul 11, 2006)

Supergirl said:
			
		

> For more clarity:
> 
> Is it a protein treatment?
> 
> ...



Silicon Mix has Keratin...is that a protein treatment?  How about the Dumb Blonde Reconstructor?


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## Supergirl (Jul 11, 2006)

jasmin said:
			
		

> Silicon Mix has Keratin...is that a protein treatment?  How about the Dumb Blonde Reconstructor?



Dumb Blonde=YES (I need to get some of this, I really like this product!)

Silicon Mix, I'm not very familiar with it.  If I had to guess, I'd say no.  But tell me more about the product.  If you can list the ingredients, that would be helpful.


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## jasmin (Jul 11, 2006)

Okay when I get home I'll post the ingredients...unless someone else has them.


Love Dumb Blonde.


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## mstasha (Jul 11, 2006)

Sistaslick said:
			
		

> I agree!  Just about everything marketed for ethnic/textured hair contains some amount of protein. SG is right. The hair needs protein to accept moisture. Protein shores up the holes and weak spots along the cuticle- so if your hair is properly "proteinated" (is that even a word? ), it will be able to hold onto the moisture you give it much better. Patching up the "holes" is very important for moisture retention.  To me, ORS replenishing pak is a light protein-based conditioner, not a treatment.
> 
> This is way I've always understood the conditioners vs. treatments/reconstructors thing-
> 
> ...


 
Your information was very informative. I have been having a lot bad luck with protein's period. And I am learning that some don't mix. I stopped using everything but the treatments all together. This has convinced me to ease them back in.

Thanks


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## karezone (Jul 12, 2006)

Motions Silk Protein is more moisturizing than a protein.  Silk protein simply adds moisture.  It doesn't really add strength to the hair.


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## Supergirl (Jul 12, 2006)

karezone said:
			
		

> Motions Silk Protein is more moisturizing than a protein.  Silk protein simply adds moisture.  It doesn't really add strength to the hair.



This conditioner also contains collagen and silk protein is actually very strengthening.  Silk fibers are known as one of the strongest fibers that exist.  Luckily, silk protein doesn't make the hair brittle as some other strengthening proteins can.


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## J 3 a n i O u s (Jul 12, 2006)

Very informative and useful. Thank You.


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## PinkAngel (Jul 12, 2006)

So, even though ORS Mayo says protein on the label (i think), it's not a protein cond/trmnt....does it only become protein when an egg is added to it?  TIA


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## barbie22 (Jul 12, 2006)

is phytospecific's vital force creme bath a protien?


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## Faith (Jul 17, 2006)

Supergirl said:
			
		

> I think some are misunderstanding what a protein treatment is and are incorrectly "labeling" certain conditioners as protein treatments.  (example:  someone referred to ORS Replenishing as a protein conditioner--it isn't)  A protein treatment is usually specifically called such or it may be called a reconstructor.  There are a few other terms that are synonymous with "protein treatment."
> 
> Many of your moisturizing conditioners will contain protein.  This is a GOOD thing.  For the hair cannot hold the moisture in without sufficient protein.
> 
> I hope this will provide some clarity if anyone has been confused and I hope this will make choosing conditioners an easy and stress free task.


Good to know.  So ORS RP is not a protein conditioner....nice.

So are GPB and QP Breakage Control Serum protein based conditioners or treatments?  Thanks for the info ladies


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## Supergirl (Jul 17, 2006)

Faith said:
			
		

> Good to know.  So ORS RP is not a protein conditioner....nice.
> 
> So are GPB and QP Breakage Control Serum protein based conditioners or treatments?  Thanks for the info ladies



The last 2, I would categorize as protein treatments.  

Barbie, I'm sorry--I'm not familiar with that one at all.

Mschic/Faith--I would not categorize ORS Mayo as a protein, but I wouldn't necessarily categorize it as a moisturizing treatment either.  --maybe a good balance of both.


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## CoCoRica (Jul 17, 2006)

Supergirl,

Where does Jherring Redding Protein fall? Hardcore/light? Anyone use this and if so what are your results?


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## Faith (Jul 20, 2006)

Supergirl said:
			
		

> The last 2, I would categorize as protein treatments.
> 
> Barbie, I'm sorry--I'm not familiar with that one at all.
> 
> Mschic/Faith--I would not categorize ORS Mayo as a protein, but I wouldn't necessarily categorize it as a moisturizing treatment either.  --maybe a good balance of both.


I didn't ask about ORS Mayo...lol.  I was wondering about GPB and QP BCS??  Thanks


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## punchinella (Aug 8, 2006)

Okay *Supergirl or SistaSlick*:
I just posted this question on another thread, Is this considered a protein conditioner?

*MOTIONS After Shampoo Moisture Plus Conditioner with Silicone & Panthenol *







*Description:*
Restores hairs normal acid pH. Makes hair easier to comb and manage. Evens hair porosity and smoothes its exterior. Softens and supports hairs integrity. 

For Professional Use Only. 
*Directions*
After Relaxing: Rinse relaxer thoroughly and towel dry hair. Apply Moisture Plus Conditioner for ten minutes. Shampoo, reapply for ten minutes and rinse. 

After Shampooing: Apply an ample amount, cover with a shower cap and rinse after fifteen minutes. 
*Ingredients*
Water (Aqua), Mineral Oil (Paraffin Liquidum), Polyquaternium 32, Glycerin, Quaternium 80, Dimethicone PEG 8 Isostearate, Dimethicone, Panthenol, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance (Parfum).


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## Supergirl (Aug 8, 2006)

Faith said:
			
		

> I didn't ask about ORS Mayo...lol.  I was wondering about GPB and QP BCS??  Thanks



Yes, I would consider these 2 to be in the protein family.


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## sassyhair (Aug 8, 2006)

bumping to subscribe


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## Supergirl (Aug 8, 2006)

punchinella said:
			
		

> Okay *Supergirl or SistaSlick*:
> I just posted this question on another thread, Is this considered a protein conditioner?
> 
> *MOTIONS After Shampoo Moisture Plus Conditioner with Silicone & Panthenol *
> ...




No, if you don't see protein _anywhee_ in the ingredients, then it is *absolutely NOT* a protein.


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## punchinella (Aug 8, 2006)

So the panthenol is not protein? They say it restores the hair's natural PH. What in the conditioner would cause that?

Oh yes and thax for responding so soon.


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## CreoleBelle (Aug 8, 2006)

I have the Duotex protein treatment. How often should/could the treatment be used? I'm currently 11 weeks post relaxer.


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## rocky (Aug 16, 2006)

This is a great thread about protein.  Now would someone please explain to me when you would need to put on a reconstructor protein?


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## pink_n_green_iz_me (Aug 16, 2006)

What about the Affirm 5 in 1, is that heavy or light protein?


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## Supergirl (Aug 16, 2006)

CreoleBelle said:
			
		

> I have the Duotex protein treatment. How often should/could the treatment be used if? I'm currently 11 weeks post relaxer.



I would say once every 3-4 weeks.


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## Supergirl (Aug 16, 2006)

rocky said:
			
		

> This is a great thread about protein.  Now would someone please explain to me when you would need to put on a reconstructor protein?



*to combat breakage
*as preventative care
*when your hair will not hold moisture


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## Supergirl (Aug 16, 2006)

pink_n_green_iz_me said:
			
		

> What about the Affirm 5 in 1, is that heavy or light protein?



I'd say medium.


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## Tee (Sep 8, 2006)

bumping this up.


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## madamone (Aug 19, 2007)

Bump Bump Bump

This helped me alot..I'm seeing some of the same questions I had. Hopefully this will help.


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## morehairplease (Aug 19, 2007)

ladies  , SO SO much for this thread!


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## LaReyna756 (Aug 19, 2007)

msshic said:


> So, even though ORS Mayo says protein on the label (i think), it's not a protein cond/trmnt....does it only become protein when an egg is added to it? TIA


 
It's definitely a protein conditioner with our without the egg.


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## tschizum (Aug 19, 2007)

Thanks for posting I think I have been a little confused myself thinks for clarifying!


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## LABETT (Aug 19, 2007)

I am glad to see this thread again I need to rearrange some of conditioners in my regimen that I thought was protein like ORS Hair Mayo.


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## gorgeoushair (Aug 19, 2007)

I think Motions CPR and Motions Silk Protein would be  a good combo of both but Motions CPR is stronger.


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## turnergirl (Aug 22, 2007)

Has anyone used the new formula of Aphogee 2 Minute Keratin Reconstructor? People were upset about the mineral oil and glycerin. How does it work?


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## natdream (Aug 22, 2007)

Thanks for the info. I realize that I have a lot of protein conditioners or is that treatments?     So me being a product junkie gives me a reason to pick up more  conditioner.


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## DivaRox (Aug 22, 2007)

LABETT said:


> I am glad to see this thread again I need to rearrange some of conditioners in my regimen that I thought was protein like ORS Hair Mayo.


 
Yup me too. Plus, I had to recheck my warehouse before I bought more products-I forgot I already have the Aphoghee 2 minute reconstructor. However, I just did a CON reconstructor treatment so I should be good on protein.


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## queenbee8687 (Aug 23, 2007)

Do you need to use hardcore protein even if your hair isn't breaking?  Or is it enough to just use lesser protein treatments weekly?

Thanks in advance


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## Supergirl (Aug 23, 2007)

queenbee8687 said:


> Do you need to use hardcore protein even if your hair isn't breaking?  Or is it enough to just use lesser protein treatments weekly?
> 
> Thanks in advance



I would agree with you.   No hardcore treatment would be necessary if the hair is not breaking, unless perhaps you are anticipating breakage or your hair is just recovering from a period of breakage.


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## The Girl (Oct 26, 2007)

bump for Classisme


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## Artemis (Jan 1, 2008)

Just because...


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## Undefeated Queen (Jan 1, 2008)

Supergirl said:


> For more clarity:
> 
> Is it a protein treatment?
> 
> ...


 
Excellent. Thank you!


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## Lucky's Mom (May 13, 2008)

Whata great post!


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## beauty (May 14, 2008)

love the info in this thread! Excellent !


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## mahogany_horizons (May 14, 2008)

YESSSS THANK YOU SO KINDLY FOR THE INFORMATION!!


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## LABETT (May 14, 2008)

I noticed a lot of people consider Silcon Mix a protein treatment I use it as a moisturing conditioner.
Silicon Mix has made a new Conditioner which is labeled Protein Treatment and I cant wait to try it.


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## blackmaven (May 14, 2008)

Supergirl said:


> For more clarity:
> 
> Is it a protein treatment?
> 
> ...


 
Bump so I can subsribe


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## baddison (May 14, 2008)

Why is ORS Mayonnaise NOT a protein treatment....that's what the jar says doesn't it?


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## Mimi22 (May 14, 2008)

is whey protein a good ingredient in a protein treatment? What sort of ingredients should I be looking for generally? 

I have access to different sorts of protein treatments and it's a bit difficult to decipher a good one for my natural hair!


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## blackmaven (May 14, 2008)

Posted by Supergirl previous post in 8-11-2003 7:58pm

All proteins are strengthening proteins to some degree but here are the more specific characteristics of these proteins--

Collagen Protein--known for increasing elasticity in the hair

Silk Protein--known for softening the hair

Wheat Protein--a moisturizing and strengthening protein. known for increasing the hair's ability to maintain &amp; receive moisture also.

Keratin Protein--responsible for keeping the hair strong and pliable. This is the strongest of the(hair product) proteins and is actually the one that hair is made from. This one re-structures hair that has been damaged or broken down by chemicals. It helps to replace the amino acid cysteine which is the main one lost during chemical processing. This is the heavy duty protein. If you see the following as an ingredient

*Keratin protein--this will re-structure and strengthen the hair cuticle (the outer layer only &amp; the most important layer)

*Hydrolyzed Keratin Protein or Keratin Amino Acids--this means that the Keratin molecules have been broken down and are small enough to go beyond the cuticle and penetrate the hair shaft. It will strengthen all 3 layers of the hair. That is why the term "deep conditioning" technically only refers to this kind of treatment using penetrating proteins. 

*Hydrolyzed Human Hair Keratin--This is an exact match for the keratin your hair has (or has lot due to chemical processing). This is the highest quality and most potent keratin that can be used in hair products. 

*Posted by plzgrow 4-28-2006*

*Here is a handy guide for understanding the different types of protein products.*

All proteins are strengthening proteins to some degree but here are the more specific characteristics of these proteins:

*Collagen Protein*--known for increasing elasticity in the hair 

*Silk Protein*--known for softening the hair 

*Wheat Protein*--a moisturizing and strengthening protein. known for increasing the hair's ability to maintain & receive moisture also. 

*Keratin Protein*--responsible for keeping the hair strong and pliable. This is the strongest of the(hair product) proteins and is actually the one that hair is made from. This one re-structures hair that has been damaged or broken down by chemicals. It helps to replace the amino acid cysteine which is the main one lost during chemical processing. This is the heavy duty protein. If you see the following as an ingredient 

**Vegetable protein* -- Vegetable protein absorbs more easily into the hair shaft [than animal protein] and does not create build-up, leaves the hair very shiny, radiant, luxuriant, and healthy.

**Animal protein* -- Animal protein breaks down into fatty acids, which coat the hair and create residual build-up.

*Silk Amino Acids/Protein*--Natural silk is the strongest, natural fiber known to mankind. Discovered in Japan and has been used for centuries in all kinds of products that require durability. Silk has a tiny molecule that can penetrate the entire hair shaft deeper than all other proteins without adding any weight leaving the hair feeling clean and non-greasy

*Keratin protein More Indept:*

**a) Keratin protein*--this will re-structure and strengthen the hair cuticle (the outer layer only & the most important layer) 

The keratin in some reconstructors should not leave your hair hard like the Aphogee Treatment for damaged hair (which contains hydrolyzed animal protein). This treatment hardens on your hair for a reason and is used with mild heat. A moisturizing conditioner is a must with this in order to soften like Keracare's humecto.

Reconstructors that contain keratin and other proteins are supposed to have enough moisture to soften the hair therefore leaving your hair with a nice protein/moisture balance." 


** Hydrolyzed Keratin Protein or Keratin Amino Acids--*this means that the Keratin molecules have been broken down and are small enough to go beyond the cuticle and penetrate the hair shaft. It will strengthen all 3 layers of the hair. That is why the term "deep conditioning" technically only refers to this kind of treatment using penetrating proteins. 

**c) Hydrolyzed Human Hair Keratin*--This is an exact match for the keratin your hair has (or has lot due to chemical processing). This is the highest quality and most potent keratin that can be used in hair products.

**All of this information was provided by previous members above


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## DaRealist (May 14, 2008)

Great information.
Thanks


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## Mimi22 (May 15, 2008)

Thanksx blackmaven!


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## LongHairDreams (Jul 31, 2008)

bumping...


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## moonglowdiva (Aug 1, 2008)

This is very good valuable information.


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## Irresistible (Aug 1, 2008)

baddison said:


> Why is ORS Mayonnaise NOT a protein treatment....that's what the jar says doesn't it?



I do agree that ORS mayo and ORS OORP are both protein conditioners , and they behaved as such in my hair

I even got massive protein overload from the ORS OORP, by leaving it in


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## half.cadence (Dec 19, 2008)

awesome thread. bump


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## Artemis (Dec 19, 2008)

Thanks so much for bumping this. Based on the threads I've been seeing lately, it is definitely needed right now...


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## Napp (Dec 19, 2008)

Artemis said:


> Thanks so much for bumping this. Based on the threads I've been seeing lately, it is definitely needed right now...



ITA


people are avoiding protein like the plague


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## SmartyPants (Dec 19, 2008)

I know it has been stated that the ORS Pak is not a protein conditioner.  However, I recently advised someone not to use it after using the Aphogee 2-step protein.  I stand by what I said.  After the Aphogee 2-step protein, the ORS pak *does* have too much protein to use as a moisturizer!

I think we also need to consider what else we are using when talking about protein content.


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## Lanea87 (Dec 19, 2008)

I love protein I try to use a light one every week on wash day which is my Aphogee 2 mins, mmmm smells so good.
I did the 2 step yesterday and so far so good.


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## Lucky's Mom (Dec 19, 2008)

SmartyPants said:


> I know it has been stated that the ORS Pak is not a protein conditioner. However, I recently advised someone not to use it after using the Aphogee 2-step protein. I stand by what I said. After the Aphogee 2-step protein, the ORS pak *does* have too much protein to use as a moisturizer!
> 
> I think we also need to consider what else we are using when talking about protein content.


 

I agree... ORS Pak contains Collagen - High on the ingredient listing.....


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## Artemis (Dec 19, 2008)

SmartyPants said:


> I know it has been stated that the ORS Pak is not a protein conditioner.  However, I recently advised someone not to use it after using the Aphogee 2-step protein.  I stand by what I said.  After the Aphogee 2-step protein, the ORS pak *does* have too much protein to use as a moisturizer!
> 
> I think we also need to consider what else we are using when talking about protein content.




That really is going to depend on the individual head of hair and how much moisture and protein they need. There are ppl on here who can use ORS pak after Aphogee 2step and their hair benefits...And there are others who cannot, but there are other factors involved.

Also, not only does the type of protein matter but the concentration and molecular weight of the ingredients in the list (which we can't know unless we call the chemist of the company and ask) play a role in how a product works on a head of hair.

Bottom line: As w/everything, you won't really know until you try


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## JDandBeyond (Dec 19, 2008)

I used ORS pak after Aphogee and had no problems.  It left my hair silky and smooth and the breakage was still stopped in its tracks.  And I have thin AND fine hair so I would think that if that combo were to have a negative impact it would have happened to me!  As the previous poster stated, I think it all depends on your hair, maintenance, and level of damage.


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## Eisani (Dec 19, 2008)

Been trying to find this again since last year. Subscribing.


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## kami11213 (Dec 19, 2008)

I'm definitely subscribing...very informative


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## Patricia (Dec 19, 2008)

I love this thread! Thanks supergirl and the other ladies with all your good advice


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## Shadiyah (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes like me who just had to chop all my hair off and I mean clipper chop.



Artemis said:


> Thanks so much for bumping this. Based on the threads I've been seeing lately, it is definitely needed right now...


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## tgrowe (Dec 21, 2008)

Napp said:


> ITA
> 
> 
> people are avoiding protein like the plague


 
You said a mouth full for I, too, was avoiding protein since I didn't like my hair feeling hard and like straw. My first experience with a hard core protein treatment was UBH's Deep Condish. My hair was super hard because I knew nothing about doing a moisturizing deep condish afterwards. So I assumed that my hair hated hard proteins when that is really what my hair needed in order to correct the shedding and breakage problems. I stop using any type of hard protein since then and man, have I had so many problems with shedding, breakage, retaining moisture. I was about to break down. Glad I saw this thread and pleased to see that my decision to use a protein treatment was a good one.


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## Patricia (Dec 22, 2008)

bumping for others


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## lwilliams1922 (Dec 22, 2008)

tgrowe said:


> You said a mouth full for I, too, was avoiding protein since I didn't like my hair feeling hard and like straw. My first experience with a hard core protein treatment was UBH's Deep Condish. My hair was super hard because I knew nothing about doing a moisturizing deep condish afterwards. So I assumed that my hair hated hard proteins when that is really what my hair needed in order to correct the shedding and breakage problems. I stop using any type of hard protein since then and man, have I had so many problems with shedding, breakage, retaining moisture. I was about to break down. Glad I saw this thread and pleased to see that my decision to use a protein treatment was a good one.




Do you ever feel like just when you might have something figured out, you read something that takes you back 10 steps?

So now I guess my avoiding protein may be what's contributing to my dryness or inablity to hold moisture?    

Can you give me a suggestion for a potein conditioner/treatment to help hold in moisture that I should use BEFORE my deep (for moisture)?

I'm 4a natural and my hair isn't breaking just thin and doesnt hold moisture.
t

thanks!


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## Solitude (Dec 22, 2008)

I've been wondering about this with the ORS. I use it sometimes & it seems so super-moisturizing, but then I saw some referring to it as protein. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## Bronxcutie (Dec 22, 2008)

How is ORS Mayo NOT a protein conditioner?


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## Artemis (Dec 22, 2008)

blackmaven said:


> *Keratin protein More Indept:*
> 
> **a) Keratin protein*--this will re-structure and strengthen the hair cuticle (the outer layer only & the most important layer)
> 
> ...


 
I just want to point out the section in red, because it's an important issue that I have recently discovered for _my own hair regimen_. I have fine, relaxed hair; for this reason, for _my hair_, I have separated my conditioning products as such:

Deep conditioners- balanced with moisture and protein; these are typically referred to as "creme reconstructors" or mild-to-medium "protein treatments". I don't find that these need to be followed with a moisture dc b/c the moisture is mixed in, and can be used weekly or every other week, with regular conditioning in between to supplement. (ex: Keraphix, Aphogee 2 min)

Moisture deep treatments - moisture based deep conditioner (minimal protein content) for special circumstances, or to follow a protein treatment (ex: PMSC, Kenra MC)

Protein treatments - hardcore proteins that can only be used in an emergency or every 6-8 wks (like Aphogee 2-step or Dudley DRC 28)

I find I am often in the minority with my regimen/habits because it seems like everyone often is trying to find the most moisturizing product in the world, but doing so has stifled my progress. My hair has no problem retaining moisture. I found that rather a more balanced approach easier to handle consistently


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## ShaniKeys (Dec 22, 2008)

I consider the Damage Remedy IRT to be a protein conditioner, am I right?


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## ShaniKeys (Dec 23, 2008)




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## Naturelle (Dec 23, 2008)

So for naturals avoiding proteins....which ones whould we be using in order to hold in moisture?

Bump


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## Patricia (Dec 25, 2008)

bumpity bump


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## SweetMarshCrystal (Jan 5, 2009)

love this thread, thanks! SO currently I'm using aphogee 2min on Mondays and deep conditioning with keracare humecto on Thursdays. Is this a good balance?


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## Poodlepizzared (Jan 5, 2009)

Bumping!!! I use ORS hair mayo.


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## baddison (Mar 26, 2009)

blackmaven said:


> Posted by Supergirl previous post in 8-11-2003 7:58pm
> 
> All proteins are strengthening proteins to some degree but here are the more specific characteristics of these proteins--
> 
> ...


 

Every time I read this particular post....I learn something new about types of proteins.

Here's a BUMP for our recent newbies!!!


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## MsChelle (Mar 26, 2009)

Supergirl said:


> I think some are misunderstanding what a protein treatment is and are incorrectly "labeling" certain conditioners as protein treatments. (example: someone referred to ORS Replenishing as a protein conditioner--it isn't) A protein treatment is usually specifically called such or it may be called a reconstructor. There are a few other terms that are synonymous with "protein treatment."
> 
> Many of your moisturizing conditioners will contain protein. This is a GOOD thing. For the hair cannot hold the moisture in without sufficient protein.
> 
> I hope this will provide some clarity if anyone has been confused and I hope this will make choosing conditioners an easy and stress free task.


 

Thanks for this info! You just addressed the very thing I have been researching this week as I stock up on my conditioners.......


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## LongiLox (Mar 26, 2009)

Sistaslick said:


> I agree!  Just about everything marketed for ethnic/textured hair contains some amount of protein. SG is right. The hair needs protein to accept moisture. Protein shores up the holes and weak spots along the cuticle- so if your hair is properly "proteinated" (is that even a word? ), it will be able to hold onto the moisture you give it much better. Patching up the "holes" is very important for moisture retention.  To me, ORS replenishing pak is a light protein-based conditioner, not a treatment.
> 
> This is way I've always understood the conditioners vs. treatments/reconstructors thing-
> 
> ...


 
Can you please recommend other good protein reconstructors besides Aphogee? And here I thought I was doing a protein treatment evertime I used my mane n tail and motions cpr.


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## baddison (Mar 26, 2009)

LongiLox said:


> Can you please recommend other good protein reconstructors besides Aphogee? And here I thought I was doing a protein treatment evertime I used my mane n tail and motions cpr.


 

This thread lists some great protein DC's and protein reconstructors:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=327763


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## Ronnieaj (Jun 22, 2009)

I think this is good information to have.

Also, a previous post asked about doing hardcore protein treatments sans having actual breakage.  I'm fully natural, and I do an aphogee treatment every six weeks.  My hair thrives on both, and I find that it works as a preventive step for me.  My breakage level has drastically decreased since I started doing it.  I know that it's too strong for some, but it's just right for me.


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## msa (Jul 24, 2009)

Bump so others can see this great info.


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## Cherokee-n-Black (Jul 24, 2009)

I do the aphogee treatment also.  Makes a world of difference on my hair.  It's just finding the time to do it. Soooo time consuming!


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## ms.blue (Mar 20, 2010)

bumping this thread


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## leigh.hill (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for the information ladies!

Where does AO GPB fall into all of these? It contains glycoprotein but it is WAY down on the ingredient list. I have been using it weekly as my protein treatment. I am scared of the hardcore treatments.

INGREDIENTS: Coconut fatty acid cream base, organic aloe vera, wheat germ oil, milk protein, organic rosemary oil, organic sage oil, horsetail extract, coltsfoot extract, nettle extract, *glycoprotein*, balsam oil, Aubrey's Preservative (citrus seed extract, vitamins A, C and E).


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## sqzbly1908 (Mar 21, 2010)

leigh.hill said:


> Thanks for the information ladies!
> 
> Where does AO GPB fall into all of these? It contains glycoprotein but it is WAY down on the ingredient list. I have been using it weekly as my protein treatment. I am scared of the hardcore treatments.
> 
> INGREDIENTS: Coconut fatty acid cream base, organic aloe vera, wheat germ oil, milk protein, organic rosemary oil, organic sage oil, horsetail extract, coltsfoot extract, nettle extract, *glycoprotein*, balsam oil, Aubrey's Preservative (citrus seed extract, vitamins A, C and E).




It is a very light protein conditioner that feels moisturizing


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## leigh.hill (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks. So...do I need a protein *treatment *or is this *conditioner* okay?


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## Sade (Mar 21, 2010)

Is Mizani kerafuse intensive protein treatment a good protein treatment to have and if so is it a major, medium, or mild treatment? Thanks


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## Aggie (Mar 21, 2010)

This post is so true. Thanks for sharing Supergirl


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## JJamiah (Aug 29, 2010)

bumping for anyone who hasen't seen this


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## JJamiah (Aug 29, 2010)

Supergirl said:


> For more clarity:
> 
> Is it a protein treatment?
> 
> ...


 


LongiLox said:


> Can you please recommend other good protein reconstructors besides Aphogee? And here I thought I was doing a protein treatment evertime I used my mane n tail and motions cpr.




Your Motions CPR checks out as a Protein treatment, MnT is not on the list is mostl likely a conditioner


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## TruMe (Aug 30, 2010)

2 Questions:

1 - Is the Olive Oil Hair Mayo a good protein treatment?  And is it a light/medium/hard protein treatment?  How often should this be done?

2 - Who needs these protein treatments more, natural heads or relaxed heads?  Where do transitioners fit in this?

Thanks so much!!  I have just about got my regimen down.  This is the only thing that I have not been incorporating and wanted to.

Oh, and what do you guys think about the Miss Jessie's Rapid Recovery?


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## Myjourney2009 (Aug 30, 2010)

I would consider this a light protein conditioner because it has egg protein that IMO I would use every other week. It would build up on the hair if used every week. If you are talking about the Vitale Hair mayo, Sunshine did a review on her blog:http://www.hairliciousinc.com/2009/05/vital-olive-oil-hair-mayonnaise.html

Everyone's hair is different when it comes to using protein. As a natural I used protein every other week and I do the same now as a relaxed head. 

Yesterday I added a T of collagen conditioner to my DC because I have some bone straight hair that needs the extra protection. My hair does not like collagen on its own but added to something else it works fine. This weekend I will be doing a reconstructing protein conditioner (it is veggie protein) that I add 1 T of my Millscreek conditioner to (it has collagen and hydrolyzed keratin). When I used the millscreek on its own I always added an egg yolk to it. I dont do this anymore because i like to eat my eggs and not wear them on my head. I also wanted to simplify my routine.

Never used any of Mrs Jessies stuff because I no longer use products with pertroleum or cones


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## TruMe (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks MyJourney2009.


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## Rae81 (Aug 30, 2010)

this is a great thread with alot of good information. i have never done a protein treatment and when i joined the board and was reading about protein , i just started looking for stuff that says it has protein. so i was using ors replenishing pack and thought i was really doing something . so for somebody like me who has never done a protein treatment, what would be a good one to start out with?


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## Supergirl (Aug 30, 2010)

^^cheap and readily available (can find at Sally's), I recommend:

Motions Moisture Silk Protein Conditioner

OR

Ultra-Sheen Duo Tex

The Motions is mild enough to use weekly (not that you have to use it that often). Duo-Tex is stronger, something I'd only use monthly or maybe even every other month or just on an "as needed" basis.


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## southerncitygirl (Aug 30, 2010)

Not true about ao gbp being lightweight protein, if you look closely milk protein is after the wheat germ oil so wouldn't gbp technically be a mid-weight protein treatment?


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## Prayin4FullWL2012 (Aug 31, 2010)

Subscribing


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## Yoshi3329 (Aug 31, 2010)

Subbing!!!


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## Tiye (Aug 31, 2010)

What about kitchen products like ... mayo and yogurt? Anyone use these every few weeks and feel that they're getting the same conditioning effect as commercial protein conditioners for hair? I don't feel like going on a quest to find the right protein conditioner but if it's something I have in my kitchen already I'm down for it. (didn't read the entire thread so I apologize if this point was already answered).


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## Supergirl (Aug 31, 2010)

southerncitygirl said:


> Not true about ao gbp being lightweight protein, if you look closely milk protein is after the wheat germ oil so wouldn't gbp technically be a mid-weight protein treatment?


 
No, I would still say light. The moisture benefits of this conditioner outweigh any restructuring, especially since milk protein is a moisturizing protein more so than a restructuring protein. 

I would classify a product as a "midweight" if the moisture and protein benefits were about equal.


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## Rae81 (Sep 1, 2010)

is there a way i can save this as a favorite thread or something?


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## baglady215 (Feb 1, 2011)

because this thread is awesome


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## divachyk (Feb 1, 2011)

What category of product is Smooth n Shine Silk Fusion? It's packaged as "Xtreme Leave-In Protein Treatment."





Smooth 'N Shine - Smooth N Shine Repair Xtreme Leave-In Protein Treatment

Ingredients:
Aqua (Water), Cyclopentasiloxane, Polyquaternium-37, Dimethicone, Amodimethicone, Silk Amino Acids, Pearl Powder, Biotin, Panthenol, Polyquaternium-55, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Cetrimonium Chloride, Glycerin, Maris Sal (Sea Salt), Phenyl Trimethicone, Propylene Glycol, Propylene Glycol Dicaprylate/Dicaprate, PPG-1 Trideceth-6, PEG/PPG-18/18 Demithicone, Disodium EDTA, DMDM Hydantoin, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Parfum (Fragrance), Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool, Citronellol, Limonene, Geraniol.


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## LuvlyRain3 (Feb 1, 2011)

I use this. I would considered this a protein at least for the way it acts with my hair. I need to put this back in rotation.


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## mzteaze (Feb 1, 2011)

divachyk said:


> What category of product is Smooth n Shine Silk Fusion? It's packaged as "Xtreme Leave-In Protein Treatment."
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Between the cones and the SAA, it should make your hair feel nice - but its not a heavy protein.


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## divachyk (Feb 1, 2011)

mzteaze said:


> Between the cones and the SAA, it should make your hair feel nice - but its not a heavy protein.


Supergirl recommended this to me once but I wasn't sure of its product purpose. If I recall correctly, she suggested I mix some into my DC and of course it gets rinsed out with the DC.


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## mzteaze (Feb 1, 2011)

divachyk said:


> Supergirl recommended this to me once but I wasn't sure of its product purpose. If I recall correctly, she suggested I mix some into my DC and of course it gets rinsed out with the DC.



SAAs are GREAT!  I read about it in a few older threads.  its light enough to add to all sorts of products.  My hair feels silky and strong with them.


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## CrownCola (Feb 1, 2011)

Great thread!


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## divachyk (Feb 1, 2011)

mzteaze said:


> SAAs are GREAT!  I read about it in a few older threads.  its light enough to add to all sorts of products.  My hair feels silky and strong with them.


Every use as leave-ins or within your day-to-day prods? Or you mix it within DCs only?


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## mzteaze (Feb 1, 2011)

divachyk said:


> Every use as leave-ins or within your day-to-day prods? Or you mix it within DCs only?



A lot of girls mix into everything from shampoo to mascara.  I mix it with nearly everything as well.  Just a few drops is good - so you don't need a lot to add.


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## divachyk (Feb 1, 2011)

Were these mentioned and what are their classification?
Hydrolyzed Oat Protein
Hydrolyzed Soy Protein

Here's a link that discusses them but I still need a little help on classification.
INCI Dictionary

I glimpsed these ingredients in the Vital Olive Oil. 
Hairlicious Inc.: Vital Olive Oil Hair Mayonnaise

Hydrolyzed soy protein — Water-soluble protein naturally derived from soy via the enzymatic hydrolysis process. Applied topically, it is an excellent hydrator that improves the texture and resiliency of the skin. In hair care formulas, it coats porous and damaged areas to strengthen and mend hair fiber. 

Hydrolyzed oat protein — Natural humectant clinically proven to increase hydration. Used in skin care products to smooth fine lines and wrinkles.


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## Anne26 (Feb 1, 2011)

My hair hates protein, even the little bit in normal conditioner, so I avoid. In the rare cases I need some protein, that normal conditioner/DC with protein is just enough.


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## LuvlyRain3 (Feb 2, 2011)

Hydrolyzed oat protein bring moisture into the hair and scalp

Hydrolyzed soy protein contains cystine which strengthens hair. Its suppose to make the hair more manageable. Hth.


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## NappyNelle (Jul 23, 2011)

BUMP

What are some natural product alternatives for heavy-weight protein treatments? I currently use AO GPB.


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## keepithealthy (Jul 23, 2011)

bumping for others ...great thread


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## HauteHippie (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks for clarifying this! I've been wondering about it lately since I've been reading other's hair routine and seeing what some deem to be a protein conditioner.


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## NYDee (Jul 23, 2011)

What kind of conditioner are Emergencia and Queen Helene Cholesterol?


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## Ogoma (Oct 1, 2012)




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## melissa-bee (Oct 1, 2012)

NappyNelle said:


> BUMP
> 
> What are some natural product alternatives for heavy-weight protein treatments? I currently use AO GPB.


 
NappyNelle
Have you tried coconut milk?


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## melissa-bee (Oct 1, 2012)

This is what I was trying to say in another thread when someone was insisting that the ORS replenishing conditioner was a medium protein. I got straight up ignored. That conditioner does nothing but provide moisture for me.


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## JJamiah (Oct 1, 2012)

melissa-bee said:


> This is what I was trying to say in another thread when someone was insisting that the ORS replenishing conditioner was a medium protein. I got straight up ignored. That conditioner does nothing but provide moisture for me.



I totally agree, my hair had gotten so over moisturized, it was gummy. I had to use Aphogee right after to get my balance. I don't care what anyone says, I know what I does to mine. So I treat it as so, and so should they. Ingredients is only half the battle.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using LHCF


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## divachyk (Oct 1, 2012)

Supergirl said:


> *to combat breakage
> *as preventative care
> *when your hair will not hold moisture


Supergirl, way upthread you suggested the above for when protein may be required. I can never figure out why I get breakage. The wet strand assessment never suggests my hair is gummy/limp and overmoisturized. It always snaps easily suggesting I need more moisture. My hair breaks with or without protein usage. Matter fact, it seems the more protein I use, the more my hair breaks which over time has led me to believe I'm protein sensitive. I've used a range of proteins with the same end result - breakage. If I can figure out my breakage issues that shows up periodically, I'll be set. This aspect of my hhj is by far the hardest for me to understand.


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## halee_J (Oct 1, 2012)

;melissa-bee16947383 said:
			
		

> This is what I was trying to say in another thread when someone was insisting that the ORS replenishing conditioner was a medium protein. I got straight up ignored. *That conditioner does nothing but provide moisture for me.*



melissa-bee ITA  I've been saying that for the longest on here, my staple moisture DC for years. I use it to soften my hair after reconstructors and henna.


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## NappyNelle (Oct 1, 2012)

melissa-bee said:


> NappyNelle
> Have you tried coconut milk?



melissa-bee Yes. It's so runny and annoying to use.  I think it worked like a moisturizing conditioner for me. (This was a long time ago, though.)

I may try the Mill Creek protein conditioners that Nix08 has recommended.


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## leiah (Oct 1, 2012)

What do we know about hydrolized wheat protein?  This says it's moisturizing.  

http://www.theherbarie.com/Hydrolyzed-Wheat-Protein-pr-78.html

Does it have any strengthening properties?  
I think making our decisions about products based on their ingredients can do us more harm than good sometimes.  If you decide your hair is protein sensitive and won't use a moisturizing conditioner with hydrolized wheat protein you could be missing out on something good.

I need protein treatments with keratin or collagen in order to strengthen my hair.


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## Supergirl (Oct 1, 2012)

divachyk said:


> Supergirl, way upthread you suggested the above for when protein may be required. I can never figure out why I get breakage. The wet strand assessment never suggests my hair is gummy/limp and overmoisturized. It always snaps easily suggesting I need more moisture. My hair breaks with or without protein usage. Matter fact, it seems the more protein I use, the more my hair breaks which over time has led me to believe I'm protein sensitive. I've used a range of proteins with the same end result - breakage. If I can figure out my breakage issues that shows up periodically, I'll be set. This aspect of my hhj is by far the hardest for me to understand.



divachyk

So, have you ever tried a no protein regimen to see how your hair does? How about something like Aubrey HSR for a few weeks? 

Other things to think about:

Are you using any heat at all?

Are you seeing a stylist? Is she gentle with your hair? Is she over-manipulating, over-processing, or over-heating your hair when you're there? It only takes a few seconds for a stylist to cause long-term damage.

How long ago did you start your HHJ? Could you still have hair on your head from _before_ you began your HHJ, hair that may still be manifesting previous hair practices (before your HHJ started)? 

Are you using any products on your hair that are causing build-up? If so, consider a no cones, no shea regimen. 

What shampoo are you using before you condition? Your shampoo choice is important to how well your conditioner performs. 

Are you using any extremely acidic or extremely basic products in your regimen (ACV or Baking Soda)? If so, cut those out for a few months and see how your hair does. I find that these are _really_ unnecessary and can cause more harm than good, especially baking soda. I did the baking soda thing once and thought it was the bomb-diggity only to find out a few days later that the hairs on my head were dropping like flies. Putting baking soda in your hair is akin to putting a relaxer in it (chemically speaking). Not that anything is wrong with relaxer, but they should only be used for the purpose of straightening the texture and then removed as soon as that's done. A baking soda rinse is  . That would be like doing a relaxer rinse.  

That's all I can think of at the moment. If I think of something else, I'll come back and add it to this thread.


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## Vshanell (Oct 2, 2012)

Supergirl Very informative thread. Would your conditioner Mocha Silk Infusion be classified as a protein treatment?

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Supergirl (Oct 2, 2012)

Pokahontas

Yes, definitely, but on the milder end of the protein treatment spectrum. I recommend it for minor breakage or to reinforce hair. For serious problems, a liquid protein treatment is best.


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## SunySydeofLyfe (Feb 10, 2013)

Bumping for LexiDior


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## LexiDior (Feb 10, 2013)

SunySydeofLyfe looks like i have homework to do when I wake up in the AM lol. Ill read through this.


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## DaiseeDay (Feb 10, 2013)

You should only avoid protein if you think you're protein sensitive. Most people are not. A lot of naturals especially type 4s have fine strands which will probably need or at least like protein and relaxed hair needs protein. Coarse hair *may* be sensitive, but will often still tolerate it in small doses. Hair can also get too much protein from an unnecessary protein treatment, but that doesn't mean you should avoid it for life. 

Hair is made of protein and it's very helpful in retaining moisture.

I harp on protein so much because my hair is coarse and I think I overdid protein treatments a while ago so I need to avoid it for awhile.


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## MileHighDiva (Feb 20, 2013)

Great thread!


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## Evolving78 (Mar 11, 2013)

bumping this!  very good info


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## spellinto (Mar 11, 2013)

OOOOH okay! Thanks for clarifying  (no pun intended)


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