# Amber Guyger Trial Begins



## Jmartjrmd

Anyone following?
She is the cop that claims she went  into the wrong apartment thinking it was hers and shot and killed Bothom Jean.
The opening statements are on YouTube.  I hope they show the whole trial.


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## Shula

They are already playing games and I sincerely hope "they got the wrong one"!

Look at how mad sis got.


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## Kanky

The cop will get off. They have overcharged her.


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## Jmartjrmd

The trial is streaming live on YouTube so I'll continue to watch
Day 1 had a lot of pretrial stuff.   One channel I'm watching has a former judge breaking stuff down so that was helpful.

States opening tidbits
*Bothom was chillin at home minding his business eating some icecream.
*His door was ajar
*The trajectory of the bullet suggests he was crouching down in a defensive stance rather than in an aggressive I'm coming after you stance
*They brought up he smoked marijuana because the defense is going to
*Amber worked an OT shift that day from 8am to 930pm
2) A lot was pointed out as to why a reasonable person would realize they were on the wrong floor
a) she parked on 4th floor
b) the sign on the door indication she was on 4t floor
c) she aalked past 16 apartments with 14XX on the door and never realized she was on 4th floor before getting to hers
d)missed some familiar "landmarks" from her neighbor.. some kind of plant she had outside her door that was always there
e) a red mat in front of Bothams door... she had no mat in front of her door
f) his place smelled like marijuana and was cluttered and there her place was tidgz) a table she had in line of sight once in her place was not in his
g] the door was not locked so they suggested she would remember is locked her door when leaving that morning

Other points they made:
Upon leaving the PD and driving home she and the boyfriend were making plans to get together through texts and a 16 minute phone call.  At one point while on the call she pulled over to talk to him before making it to garage.  she parked on 4th floor of garage which is open air while 3rd floor isnt
*She texted her boyfriend twice (officer as well) while she was supposed to be attending to victim ( so during 911 call)then later deleted those texts but they were recovered

Her 911 call..... he said you might feel sorry for her listening to it until you hear evidence of how she tried to cover her @@@.  I'll post link to her 911 call.  she says "I thought it was my apartment" like 20 times.  And at one point says "I'm so tired"

I fell asleep on defences opening but I will go back and watch but they are going to use sleep deprivation and self defense for her.  She 0leaded not guilty


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## Jmartjrmd

911 call starts at 2:00 in this video


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## Jmartjrmd

The jury is sequestered for the trial.


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## Transformer

Kanky said:


> The cop will get off. They have overcharged her.



Yep.  The DA is actually trying to get a mistrial in this case.  But they know what they are doing when they overcharge cops.


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## Laela

@Jmartjrmd - no offense, but would it be OK with you if we dedicate the thread title to Botham Jean instead? I'm all for not giving notoriety or  even acknowledging the suspect in a crime and instead focusing on the victim. It's up to you..but when I first read the thread I looked up her name and realized it was the trial for his murder... she's not the victim.


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## Reinventing21

I don't know...I listened. The woman sounds like she is having a genuine full blown panic attack. It fits her version of events.

When the case first broke there were so many conflicting stories including that they had dated or something.Then add in the race factor, I was sure it was premeditated.

Now, not sure. She could have been distracted by boyfriend to not notice she was on wrong floor, she was tired/fatigued, it was dark etc. It is plausible that the truth is that simple.

But there are questions like about the music. They need to set the record straight about the facts.


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## Jmartjrmd

Ok the defense opening
* Amber chose where she wanted to train based on the diversity of the area (due to racial tension in the case)
* Amber was not in a relationship with the officer she texted
* Amber was tired.  She worked a long shift.  She had trouble sleeping.  went to bed at midnight got up 530am
* amber requested next day off because she was so tired.  She texted her friend that she was sleepy
* The apartment complex was confusion with no clear markings as to the floor you are on unless you go look at the number on the rvator
* Amber was on autopilot
* 90+ other tenants have reported during interviews that they at some point also got 
off on wrong floor
* ABothomems door had a flaw to it that made it not latch properly when closed
* Amber shot in self defense as he was yelling and coming towards her
* Amber was panicked during her 911 call
* because Amber was on autopilot she didnt notice any of the clues as to her being at wrong apartment t
* Amber is not evil
* Amber feared for her life because she believed an intruder was about to hurt or kill her
* Amber did not have time to realize she wasnt I her place..it was dark and she needed to protect herself quickly

*The state did mention she didnt rely on her training so defense countered with her training g didnt apply to this situation


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## Jmartjrmd

Laela said:


> @Jmartjrmd - no offense, but would it be OK with you if we dedicate the thread title to Botham Jean instead? I'm all for not giving notoriety or  even acknowledging the suspect in a crime and instead focusing on the victim. It's up to you..but when I first read the thread I looked up her name and realized it was the trial for his murder... she's not the victim.



Yes that's why I said in first post who she is...I didnt want to put Bothem Jean murder trial because to me it sounded like he is on trial which the defense is trying to do.
But if someone wants to change the title that's fine by me.


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## Jmartjrmd

Reinventing21 said:


> I don't know...I listened. The woman sounds like she is having a genuine full blown panic attack. It fits her version of events.
> 
> When the case first broke there were so many conflicting stories including that they had dated or something.Then add in the race factor, I was sure it was premeditated.
> 
> Now, not sure. She could have been distracted by boyfriend to not notice she was on wrong floor, she was tired/fatigued, it was dark etc. It is plausible that the truth is that simple.
> 
> But there are questions like about the music. They need to set the record straight about the facts.


Yeah I'm not sure either.  I will listen to rest of the case but I think she'll walk.


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## Jmartjrmd

Live feed


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## Laela

I'm watching off/on... I 'm not going to be swayed by her performance... too many facts that contradict her account of what happened. Of concern to me:

1) The Red door mat - who can miss that?
2) Her defense says _he was coming at her_... how can Botham Jean do that if HE's the one answering the door? He'd likely be on defense/not offense. So did he step out his apartment, toward her?
3) The deleted text messages between her and her police partner, who she called to the scene
4) The angle at which the projectile hits Botham's body would not be that of someone rushing toward anyone...but instead crunching down

She's gonna act all innocent, like Jodi... I'll wait for the physical transformation, including librarian glasses. 




Reinventing21 said:


> I don't know...I listened. The woman sounds like she is having a genuine full blown panic attack. It fits her version of events.
> 
> When the case first broke there were so many conflicting stories including that they had dated or something.Then add in the race factor, I was sure it was premeditated.
> 
> Now, not sure. She could have been distracted by boyfriend to not notice she was on wrong floor, she was tired/fatigued, it was dark etc. It is plausible that the truth is that simple.
> 
> But there are questions like about the music. They need to set the record straight about the facts.


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## Kanky

Reinventing21 said:


> I don't know...I listened. The woman sounds like she is having a genuine full blown panic attack. It fits her version of events.
> 
> When the case first broke there were so many conflicting stories including that they had dated or something.Then add in the race factor, I was sure it was premeditated.
> 
> Now, not sure. She could have been distracted by boyfriend to not notice she was on wrong floor, she was tired/fatigued, it was dark etc. It is plausible that the truth is that simple.
> 
> But there are questions like about the music. They need to set the record straight about the facts.


I believe her story about not noticing that she was in the wrong apartment. I just don’t care. She belongs in prison. I don’t know if TX has voluntary manslaughter laws but that’s what came to mind when I read the circumstances of this killing.


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## Jmartjrmd

Day 1 link

State and defense openings
Bothem Jean's sister
Police office
Police officer
Officer Riveta ( her partner/love interest)


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## 1QTPie

Jmartjrmd said:


> 911 call starts at 2:00 in this video




Soooo... did the 9-1-1 operator forget that SHE WAS NOT THE VICTIM?  She didn't ask about Botham at any point. WOW.


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## NijaG

Her story is suspect. I’ve been so tired in many instances, I don’t even remember the route I drove to get home.

Most people subconscious brain takes over when really tired. Unless she just moved into that apartment, she should have found her way to her own unit.


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## Jmartjrmd

The bodycam footage shows Mr. Jean during his final minutes as the police are tending to him so if that kind of thing bothers you don't watch.  It comes from Officer Lee's testimony.


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## Jmartjrmd

Today  Texas Ranger was on the stand.  There was some issue with his testimony  so he was questioned outside the presence of the jury.

He stated his opinion was that he didn't think she committed a crime and it was reasonable for her to think she was in her apartment.

Interesting enough this shooting happened on 9/6.  On 9/9 this very ranger presented to the magistrate a warrant for Amber's arrest on manslaughter charges.

Ultimately  the judge ruled she would not allow his testimony as to his opinion of Amber's reasonableness, the position Mr. Jean was in prior to being shot and I think whether or not she should be charged.

They are at lunch now..I'll be back later with more notes I took.


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## Jmartjrmd

1QTPie said:


> Soooo... did the 9-1-1 operator forget that SHE WAS NOT THE VICTIM?  She didn't ask about Botham at any point. WOW.


I thought the same thing
  Didnt even try to assist her  . rendering aid.

Interesting though Amber was out in hall when the first few officers arrived.  So did she even try to help him?  The state will bring that up later.  I'll see if I can post video.


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## Jmartjrmd

The other officers get to her at about the 4:45 mark.
This is testimony and body cam from officer Lee


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## Jmartjrmd

The rest of today was more neighbors.  Most of them just said they heard yelling and two shots but couldnt make out what was being said. 

Amber in her statement said she gave verbal commands so the state is trying to say no one heard any although his immediate neighbor said she couldnt hear through the walls.

Defense keeps asking every witness if they mistakenly ever went to wrong apt.  They said they interview 200+ tenants and had this occur frequently.  

Medical examiner was on today.  Mr. Jean was 6'1 247 lbs..  
amber is 5'3.  120s for reference. 
He was shot just above left nipple.  Bullet went into left ventricle then traveled to left lung, hit 5th rib then went through his diaphragm, tore through his intestines before resting in a muscle 3 inches from his spine.

ME said he can only say "consistent with" as far as if Mr. Jean was sitting or crouching when he was shot based on the trajectory of the bullet.

Will write more after court tomorrow.


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## Farida

The whole time I couldn’t help but think the apartment complex has probably worked it’s counsel ragged since this whole thing went down. Because they will very likely be named as co-defendants or cross-complained in a wrongful death suit. Due to the malfunctioning door.


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## Farida

Jmartjrmd said:


> Today  Texas Ranger was on the stand.  There was some issue with his testimony  so he was questioned outside the presence of the jury.
> 
> He stated his opinion was that he didn't think she committed a crime and it was reasonable for her to think she was in her apartment.
> 
> Interesting enough this shooting happened on 9/6.  On 9/9 this very ranger presented to the magistrate a warrant for Amber's arrest on manslaughter charges.
> 
> Ultimately  the judge ruled she would not allow his testimony as to his opinion of Amber's reasonableness, the position Mr. Jean was in prior to being shot and I think whether or not she should be charged.
> 
> They are at lunch now..I'll be back later with more notes I took.


I was so shocked that the ranger straight jo said there was no crime here. Glad the juru wasn’t there for that. But it does make me feel like this trial is like the Zimmerman one - they don’t believe there’s a case but they want to put one on to placate the public.


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## Jmartjrmd

Farida said:


> The whole time I couldn’t help but think the apartment complex has probably worked it’s counsel ragged since this whole thing went down. Because they will very likely be named as co-defendants or cross-complained in a wrongful death suit. Due to the malfunctioning door.


Yeah I read the civil suit is already in the works.  The counsel for the civil case is present at the trial.


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## Jmartjrmd

Farida said:


> I was so shocked that the ranger straight jo said there was no crime here. Glad the juru wasn’t there for that. But it does make me feel like this trial is like the Zimmerman one - they don’t believe there’s a case but they want to put one on to placate the public.


Me too.  I was like really dude
Here is a snippet of him


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## NijaG

^^^
There is always one. SMDH


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## michelle81

Supposedly the jury is 5 blacks, 5 that are Asian or Hispanic and 2 white.
Alternates are mix of black and white.

I think those odds are the best it can get for this type of case. I'm. hoping for a manslaughter conviction and about 10 years in prison based on being so reckless.

Forgot that Judge Kemp is also black. Thankfully she seems to be keeping some of the craziness from the defense out and so that the jurors can't hear it.


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## Sosoothing

Kanky said:


> I believe her story about not noticing that she was in the wrong apartment. I just don’t care. She belongs in prison. I don’t know if TX has voluntary manslaughter laws but that’s what came to mind when I read the circumstances of this killing.



I'm with you. I work nights and you wouldn't believe the mistakes I have made from being sleep deprived. It would sound made up to many people. But she still needs to face consequences for killing that poor man.


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## Jmartjrmd

After hearing more evidence and seeing photos I can understand her mistake but I also believe there were multiple chances for her to come to realize them.  I believe she was very reckless in her actions.

There were 2 women who said they heard her banging on the door.  They took some video of her pacing in the hall after the shooting.  wonder what happened to them or if they will be called

Also it bothers me Amber couldnt remain professional.    She freaked all the way out.  She had no business being a cop.  She left that man dying on the floor but she had time to text her partner.  How about stay with him and try to render aid.  

She may take the stand today.  Will be interesting to hear her side.


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## Jmartjrmd

State rests their case
Alot of states case focused on the ice cream and the red mat outside his door.  That's much of what we heard this morning


Interesting they showed her medical gloves that didnt look used at all.  She says she rendered aid.  Not sure when as she was out pacing the hall and texting her partner.  Completely in a panic and never asked the 9¹w.c dispatcher what could she do until help arrived.


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## Reinventing21

How long was this woman a cop?


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## Reinventing21

Also, does anyone have any opinions on what her motive would be?


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## ThirdEyeBeauty

Some people are just sick antisocials!


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## Theresamonet

So Botham was sitting in a pitch black apartment eating ice cream? With the door ajar. Okay...

Even if she — by sheer fate, accidentally stumbled into the apartment that happened to have a malfunctioning door, and the occupant enjoys total darkness while they snack, she still is responsible for his death and needs to suffer the consequences. 

I personally think there is more to it, but even if it’s not: You don’t get to deprive YOURSELF of sleep, and then zombie walk your ass to my apartment and kill me cause you’re tired.  They should have charged her appropriately with manslaughter.


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## Jmartjrmd

Apparently her lover is a killer too


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## Jmartjrmd

The defense needs to stop with the he was an intruder in her apartment.  No sh was the intruder in his apartment.

She wasnt too tired to be sending her partner naked pictures asking him "wanna touch" and saying how super horny and wet she was.  She paid attention to that.


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## Sharpened

This prosecution was piss-poor, IMO.


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## Jmartjrmd

Defense out the gate trying to get ranger Armstrong's testimony in...denied


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## Jmartjrmd

Amber's up first for defense case


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## Laela

Yeah I'm not supporting that sleep depravity angle... that's an excuse for the defense.

I know professionals who work long hours and are always sleepy/tired.... you can't can't be THAT sleep-deprived that you can drive yourself  home and then consciously pull out a weapon and shoot someone...
So is shooting a person considered an on-the-job mistake for a police officer?

I can see writing down the wrong lab results or logging wrong info in the computer for other professions, like scientists or nurses..and the results could lead to a fatal error if someone dies as a result.

I take it for those in professions that cause them to be sleep-deprived, this shooting is the equivalent to a lab error...?


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## ThirdEyeBeauty

Theresamonet said:


> So Botham was sitting in a pitch black apartment eating ice cream? With the door ajar. Okay...
> 
> Even if she — by sheer fate, accidentally stumbled into the apartment that happened to have a malfunctioning door, and the occupant enjoys total darkness while they snack, she still is responsible for his death and needs to suffer the consequences.
> 
> I personally think there is more to it, but even if it’s not: You don’t get to deprive YOURSELF of sleep, and then zombie walk your ass to my apartment and kill me cause you’re tired.  They should have charged her appropriately with manslaughter.


Plus she's a police officer who despite being tired she should not conduct herself in the matter she did. 

Let one of us do and say half of what she did.  Crazy how people want to get off because they consider this a mistake.  They even said many times people have gone to the wrong floor. So! And then they turned around when they realized that simple mistake.  Not make increasingly worse mistakes after another.


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## ThirdEyeBeauty

Jmartjrmd said:


> Apparently her lover is a killer too


See I think the motive is they are sick sociopaths who thought it would be fun and if they act dramatic and remorseful, they can get away with it.  I know that is a long shot so I am okay with her being punished for making several grave mistakes as an officer.


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## Jmartjrmd

About to get in the thick of it...Amber had dramatic breakdown. now in 10 minute break so she can compose herself


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## OneShinyface

This whole case has had my pressure up since it happened last year. She had several noise complaints about him because she would hear him singing while she was in his apartment. So there was a prior relationship, albeit a contentious one. 

The red door mat is a super obvious miss on her part. She was sexting with her married partner before she arrived and had a conversation with him for 15 minutes prior to her arrival home. She wasn't that tired. The door was ajar and she went in anyway (that is against DPD protocol anyway) then he is sitting and eating ice cream and she says she felt threatened after issuing commands and shoots downward at him?

She's lying, but my fear is that all the missteps and tainted evidence and the fact that Botham is no longer here will allow her to get off.


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## Reinventing21

Wow, thanks everyone for sharing more details.  Does anyone know how long she has been a cop?  Just curious.

So @OneShinyface the part about the  noise complaints is fact?  I remember reading that when it first came out, but this go round, the media makes it seem that they didn't know each other or of each other at all. SMH.  That's why I wanted to know what motive she could possibly have.

I still agree that a trained cop missing so many details prior to entering the apartment is highly suspect.

Also, I am so confused about the reports.  He was eating ice cream in total darkness with the door open??  I mean I suppose that is in realm of possible...but....?

And her boyfriend is a killer cop?  I can't see the video yet. I wish I could see her having the breakdown in the court room. If she faked a full blown panic attack on the phone, I am speechless.

There has to be more to this bizarre story.


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## Reinventing21

I am still angry they overcharged her.  If she walks....


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## OneShinyface

Here's the live testimony. She is on the stand and she has confirmed that she was going to go workout after she got home, yet her whole story has been that she was so tired she didn't realize that she was at the wrong apartment.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Watch-Live-Amber-Guyger-Murder-Trial-Day-5-561148641.html


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## Jmartjrmd

Reinventing21 said:


> Wow, thanks everyone for sharing more details.  Does anyone know how long she has been a cop?  Just curious.
> 
> So @OneShinyface the part about the  noise complaints is fact?  I remember reading that when it first came out, but this go round, the media makes it seem that they didn't know each other or of each other at all. SMH.  That's why I wanted to know what motive she could possibly have.
> 
> I still agree that a trained cop missing so many details prior to entering the apartment is highly suspect.
> 
> Also, I am so confused about the reports.  He was eating ice cream in total darkness with the door open??  I mean I suppose that is in realm of possible...but....?
> 
> And her boyfriend is a killer cop?  I can't see the video yet. I wish I could see her having the breakdown in the court room. If she faked a full blown panic attack on the phone, I am speechless.
> 
> There has to be more to this bizarre story.


She's been an officer 4 years.

He was home watching football.  he has a huge 50 inch TV that was on.  also his laptop was on so there was some light.
He had just had his wisdom teeth pulled and that day was given permission to eat ice cream.  So he was chillin in his apartment watching tv.
He had gone out a little prior to being murdered to get icecream.  The door kept track of time people went in so that's how they know that.
There was a defect in his door so it difnt close all the way.

She said prior to entering she could hear someone in the apartment.  She had the opportunity to back out and protect herself by calling for help and taking cover but decided to go in.
She shot from the doorway

she said she gave him verbal commands to show his hands and that she thought he was armed and coming at her


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## Theresamonet

Laela said:


> Yeah I'm not supporting that sleep depravity angle... that's an excuse for the defense.
> 
> I know professionals who work long hours and are always sleepy/tired.... you can't can't be THAT sleep-deprived that you can drive yourself  home and then consciously pull out a weapon and shoot someone...  I'd even accept that she just pulled out her weapon in fear and ask him to leave what she thinks is her apartment and not shoot..but that's a hole in the story that just makes no sense!



I’m not buying this sleep deprivation bs at all. She was sooo sleepy, that apparently she went into some trancelike, autopilot mode, ignoring every detail of her surroundings (a police officer), yet she was sexting her boo at the same time. How sway?


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## Jmartjrmd

Interedting that she said she broke it off sexually with her partner because she felt it was morally wrong yet they still sending naked pictures and sexually suggestive messages to each other knowing he was married with kids.  plus had nicknames for his penis.

And 3 days after the shooting she texting him the same stuff again after saying she deleted the messages because she felt bad.  ok girl


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## Jmartjrmd




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## Farida

This is why it's most often a bad idea to testify as a defendant. The state's case was pretty weak. But her testimony makes her behavior seem so unreasonable. I could buy being so tired that she got off the wrong floor and blah blah. But her testimony to me shows such clarity in her actions. Let's see what cross and redirect reveal.

Her testimony introduces things that may not have been documented by the state's case.


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## Jmartjrmd

Ok girl...you're a trained police office but you say you didnt know how to do cpr....why not ask the 911 operator for help

but you had time to text Martin while talking to 911


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## luthiengirlie

Dude is lying.. wow.. and is coached


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## Jmartjrmd

Ranger Armstrong can't keep his opinions straight.


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## Theresamonet

Damn, did the defense even try to prep her? Short of having a Sam Jackson, “yes they deserve to die!” moment, I don’t think she could have done a worse job. 



Jmartjrmd said:


> Ok the defense opening
> * Amber chose where she wanted to train based on the diversity of the area (due to racial tension in the case)



They tried. But in her testimony she said that she wanted that area because it has the most crime and things to do.


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## michelle81

I think I read somewhere that she worked almost a double shift, but that most of it was desk duty. 
Did anyone else catch that?
I know it can be tiring sitting all day, but I’m sure she could walk around at her leisure. Also sitting all day is a totally different kind of tired than driving a squad car and being “on guard” the entire time.


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## michelle81

Anyone have any idea why there’s a murder charge instead of manslaughter?
I’m guessing Texas laws are very different, but this seems like a clear cut manslaughter case to me.

I think I read somewhere that the jury can convict on a lesser charge if they want to.

One more question to anyone that may know. Is sentencing automatic based on conviction, done by jury recommendations or in the hands of the judge based on the state’s guidelines?


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## Farida

michelle81 said:


> Anyone have any idea why there’s a murder charge instead of manslaughter?
> I’m guessing Texas laws are very different, but this seems like a clear cut manslaughter case to me.
> 
> I think I read somewhere that the jury can convict on a lesser charge if they want to.
> 
> One more question to anyone that may know. Is sentencing automatic based on conviction, done by jury recommendations or in the hands of the judge based on the state’s guidelines?



Her charges include lesser charges. So she could face manslaughter or negligent homicide. From what I have seen so far premeditated murder is a stretch. Reckless (known as murder two) is also possible

As for sentencing it is usually done by the judge based on state guidelines. Usually juries determine whether or not the person gets the death penalty if it's on the table. But sentencing really varies by state.


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## Jmartjrmd

michelle81 said:


> Anyone have any idea why there’s a murder charge instead of manslaughter?
> I’m guessing Texas laws are very different, but this seems like a clear cut manslaughter case to me.
> 
> I think I read somewhere that the jury can convict on a lesser charge if they want to.
> 
> One more question to anyone that may know. Is sentencing automatic based on conviction, done by jury recommendations or in the hands of the judge based on the state’s guidelines?


They originally charged her with manslaughter.   There were a few in the DA's office that wanted murder and they got a grand jury indictment for murder so they went with that.  As mentioned the lesser charges are included.


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## Jmartjrmd

michelle81 said:


> I think I read somewhere that she worked almost a double shift, but that most of it was desk duty.
> Did anyone else catch that?
> I know it can be tiring sitting all day, but I’m sure she could walk around at her leisure. Also sitting all day is a totally different kind of tired than driving a squad car and being “on guard” the entire time.


She worked from 8am to 930pm.  Her normal routine was to go to bed at midnight..get up by 530a to get ready for work.    That day there was OT available to assist with a swat operation.  She had downtime after that was over to "sit on" (watch) the 3 suspects that they had arrested.


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## Reinventing21

The more I read, the more I smh.  Are we sure she did not know Botham prior? Cuz she definitely  seems guilty of intentional homicide so why did she do it? Is she just crazy? Or was she trying to cover something up?


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## Jmartjrmd

Reinventing21 said:


> The more I read, the more I smh.  Are we sure she did not know Botham prior? Cuz she definitely  seems guilty of intentional homicide so why did she do it? Is she just crazy? Or was she trying to cover something up?



They did not know each other.  The earlier reports of hearing her banging on the door were not true.  There was a witness in the hallway that testified as well as his immediate neighbor and other people that were home at the time.
I think and I could be wrong as I'm not a lawyer, the intent came from her saying she heard a noise inside "her" apartment and instead of backing out she went in to eliminate the threat.


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## Jmartjrmd

What we learned from Amber's testimony

*Her dog wasn't home that week because the building was checking the apartments for moisture isdues.  So maintenance would be in her home at some point she didn't want him to esca0e.  Although unlikely that late the state produced a notice to residents that said they'd be coming in at some point,  He also got her to say that at any time
maintenance could enter the home to take care of issues

* Amber always carried her gear in her left hand to keep her shoot hand free
* Anber always made sure her door was locked when she left
* Amber was on the phone with Martin when she got home and backed into a space
*Amber got to "her" door and noticed it was ajar.  She put her key in and it pushed open although she said she pushed it open with her left side
* Prior to entering she heard shuffling
She pulls her weapon and enters...she said this all happened within seconds
* shes standing at the door and sees a figure moving side to side at back of the room
* she tells him " let me see your hands, let me see your hands"
* He starts moving towards her yelling  "Hey, hey hey"
,* She shoots twice
* She was holding the door open the entire time with her left arm still holding her gear
* Mr.Jean was about at the end of the arm of his couch when she shot
* she shot because  she was scared and thought he was going to kill her.  She believed he had a weapon
* she didnt know it wasn't her apartment until after she shot and moved towards him
* she called 911.  she attempted to do CPR with 1 hand but didnt know how to do it
* only other help she offered was a eternal rub
* during 911 call she texted Martin because she was alone and afraid and wanted help
* she went into hallway because she had no idea where she was
* she went back inside
* she heard officers in hall so went back outside so they could see her
* she deleted all texts between her and Martin because she was embarrassed about the affair
* she dramatically expressed she was sorry and didnt deserve to be with her family and friends
* despite being embarrassed about her affair with a married man she texted him days after the shooting about going out to get drunk
* when asked about her training as an office she said she can't remember everything that was taught in those classes


court starts at 9am today


----------



## Jmartjrmd

So far this morning they had some hearings about expert testimony
They tried again (yesterday) to get Armstrong's opinion about Amber's reasonableness and his opinion that she felt threatened  and he didnt think she committed a crime in.    Also he wanted to give his opinion on how Mr. Jean was positioned when shot.
That was denied because she testified to her own state of mind and if she was reasonable or not is up to the jury to decide.  She testified that Mr. Jean was standing.
He will be allowed to testify in general to tunnel vision and other physical changes a person may experience in a high stress situation
 Today a use of force expert wanted to testify he believed she was reasonable and he believed that she believed she was I her apartment therefore her actions were reasonable.  he also wanted to testify he believed Mr. Jean was ducking at the time he was shot.
Also about unintentional blindness in that ones focus would just be on the treat and not the environment namely the atm's or hands of the perceived threat.  
He wanted to use his personal experience and training to say she was reasonable.
Judge is not allowing anyone to testify to her reasonableness or her state if mind
hes permitted to testify to unintentional blindness in general


----------



## Reinventing21

If he said "hey hey" in a voice that did not sound white american...her fear was further enhanced by stereotyping, racial profiling, and by what all white women are taught to believe about Black men.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Court is over for today.  Will resume Monday at 930.
Defense only called Ranger Armstrong and since his testimony was limited by the judge he only said people may experience tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, rapid heartrate and short term memory loss that may return.
They didnt call their use of force expert since he was also very limited in what he could say.
Defense seems very frustrated with Judge Kemp.


----------



## Reinventing21

^^^^The thing is...I believe it is normal for people to experience those physical reactions while in a terrorized state BUT I thought that cops, soldiers, anyone whose JOB it is to carry a gun were TRAINED to control these reactions so as to not just start shooting all over the place.

Everything she did seems to defy police training. She acted like a regular civilian with a gun.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Oh the state asked one question to Ranger Armstrong about if Mr. Jean's shorts had pockets which they did not.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Reinventing21 said:


> ^^^^The thing is...I believe it is normal for people to experience those physical reactions while in a terrorized state BUT I thought that cops, soldiers, anyone whose JOB it is to carry a gun were TRAINED to control these reactions so as to not just start shooting all over the place.
> 
> Everything she did seems to defy police training. She acted like a regular civilian with a gun.


Right as an Rn dealing with life and death situations I get it.  My own personality is not to freak out and handle the situation as best I can.  Other nurses in the same situation freak out and panic.  I tend to internally panic but remain calm at work.  
After hearing her account my thing is why did you go in.  Those apartment s were tiny and she had no clue how many people she could be encountering or where they were inside.  How would she know someone wasnt right by the door as a lookout.  To me the reasonable thing to do upon seeing a door ajar and hearing noise inside wouldnt be to go in.
In fact that recently happened to me.  I made a post about it.  Came home and my front door was completely open.  I was fairly certain I didn't  leave it unlocked or open.    I sure as heck didnt go in the house..  Went to my neighbor and we called the police to clear the house first.  
She pulled her weapon knowing the probability that someone was inside was high.  
She didnt know who
She didn't know how many
Didnt know if they were armed
Didnt know where they were positioned
She could of entered and got her head blown off instantly

Given the information she had just prior to going in I feel she needs to suffer consequences for her actions


----------



## Farida

I can believe she got off the wrong floor and all, but I believe she was probably on snapchat with Rivera and was distracted with her phone which is why she was so lost.

I believe she probably walked in all the way, still on her phone which is why she was completely clueless about her surroundings. Everything she says is pretty much filtered because she was the only witness. 

No way she would have missed the light and sound from the tv. And if you say “hands up” and someone says “hey hey” you don’t just start shooting. That’s her story.

She probably looked up from her phone and saw Botham and started shooting because she was so distracted. Very reckless behavior IMO.

But we will never hear the full story because he died. Smh


----------



## rabs77

Unless she has the same exact tv placed in the same location she should have known way before pulling that trigger that she was in the wrong place. In a dark room your eyes would instinctively go towards the source of light, which is the tv.  Let’s not forget that if I find my door ajar, I would pause for a while at the door, and that should give me enough time to notice a BRIGHT RED MAT that isn’t mine. I’m sure many people here have worked 13 + hr shifts.. I have on occasion, and I know how tiring it is... but not to the point of being a totally oblivious of my surroundings-especially if I’m on alert because door is ajar/unusual noise from room etc..This is some BS


----------



## momi

She was really working my nerves with those manufactured tears.  Please.


----------



## momi

Jmartjrmd said:


> Ok girl...you're a trained police office but you say you didnt know how to do cpr....why not ask the 911 operator for help
> 
> but you had time to text Martin while talking to 911



I find it hard to believe that she is not CPR trained.  Even when I worked dispatch we had to keep current CPR certification, and so did our officers.


----------



## intellectualuva

momi said:


> I find it hard to believe that she is not CPR trained.  Even when I worked dispatch we had to keep current CPR certification, and so did our officers.



Security guards are CPR trained. She is full of it.


----------



## chocolat79

intellectualuva said:


> Security guards are CPR trained. She is full of it.


She was trained but probably never really learned it.  Sounds like she doesn't/ didn't take her job very seriously.


----------



## Kanky

Reinventing21 said:


> ^^^^The thing is...I believe it is normal for people to experience those physical reactions while in a terrorized state BUT I thought that cops, soldiers, anyone whose JOB it is to carry a gun were TRAINED to control these reactions so as to not just start shooting all over the place.
> 
> Everything she did seems to defy police training. She acted like a regular civilian with a gun.


A poorly trained cop is worse than a civilian. Most people don’t want to shoot someone, burglars and included and will retreat if there’s an opportunity to do so. If I came home to someone having broken in, armed or not I am backing off and calling for help and only using the gun if the person actually chases me. People who break in when you aren’t home aren’t there for you, and it is crazy to kill someone over some stuff that is insured. She went in because she is an overconfident, poorly trained cop who doesn’t value human life.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Court has started.  They went over jury instruction objections.  All of states arguments were overruled.
They re on a break and then will begin closing arguments.  Each side estimated an hour for closings.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

chocolat79 said:


> She was trained but probably never really learned it.  Sounds like she doesn't/ didn't take her job very seriously.


Right during her testimony she herself said she didnt remember what was taught in several of her police courses.  She probably blew off first aid day like she'd never have to use it or figured EMS would handle that.
But those other officers were able to do it especially that last lady officer who was doing compressions.  She paid attention!
I hope they convict on something.  I"m nervous.
The victim has no rights it seems.


----------



## Reinventing21

Kanky said:


> *A poorly trained cop is worse than a civilian*. Most people don’t want to shoot someone, burglars and included and will retreat if there’s an opportunity to do so. If I came home to someone having broken in, armed or not I am backing off and calling for help and only using the gun if the person actually chases me. *People who break in when you aren’t home aren’t there for you, and it is crazy to kill someone over some stuff that is insured. She went in because she is an overconfident, poorly trained cop who doesn’t value human life.[/QUOTE*]
> 
> Nailed it!  I hope people on the jury are seeing this as well.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Jury is going to lunch before they begin deliberations.

Officially on verdict watch!


----------



## Farida

I heard the jury instructions. Sounds like their only options are murder or manslaughter


----------



## Farida

michelle81 said:


> Anyone have any idea why there’s a murder charge instead of manslaughter?
> I’m guessing Texas laws are very different, but this seems like a clear cut manslaughter case to me.
> 
> I think I read somewhere that the jury can convict on a lesser charge if they want to.
> 
> One more question to anyone that may know. Is sentencing automatic based on conviction, done by jury recommendations or in the hands of the judge based on the state’s guidelines?


I heard the jury instructions today. Sounds like their only options are murder or manslaughter. Which makes sense because she has clearly stated intent. So I that’s why negligence is off the table.


----------



## Farida

rabs77 said:


> Unless she has the same exact tv placed in the same location she should have known way before pulling that trigger that she was in the wrong place. In a dark room your eyes would instinctively go towards the source of light, which is the tv.  Let’s not forget that if I find my door ajar, I would pause for a while at the door, and that should give me enough time to notice a BRIGHT RED MAT that isn’t mine. I’m sure many people here have worked 13 + hr shifts.. I have on occasion, and I know how tiring it is... but not to the point of being a totally oblivious of my surroundings-especially if I’m on alert because door is ajar/unusual noise from room etc..This is some BS


That’s why if she truly didn’t know where she was I think she was busy on her phone, not tired. Plus she said she was planning to go workout. So tired you don’t even know you’re lost...but you’re going to workout?


----------



## metro_qt

Jmartjrmd said:


> My own personality is not to freak out...  Other nurses in the same situation freak out and panic.  I tend to internally panic but remain calm at work.
> A*fter hearing her account my thing is why did you go in.  Those apartment s were tiny and she had no clue how many people she could be encountering or where they were inside*.  How would she know someone wasnt right by the door as a lookout.  To me the reasonable thing to do upon seeing a door ajar and hearing noise inside wouldnt be to go in.
> s


You seem to be asking questions based on your personality, and your world view.

Why did she go in? Because she has a flight or fight response (her hyperarousal response) kicked in and said FIGHT!!!! (Not run away) like it would for many of us.

She also seems to be reactionary and offensive, not defensive, which means she's quick to reach for her gun, and ask questions later....which in this case didn't work out too well for her.

Also, she seemed to have done the 'typical white people thing'  that they do in horror movies, where other cultures would move away from the threat (back away from the door, call 911 for help)...but white people always always want to go and 'investigate' ... all scoobie-doo like...


----------



## Shula

Did y'all see this mess? Castle Doctrine on somebody else's home?!!! Wooooowwwwww!


----------



## Laela

Castle Doctrine?? never heard of that... _**off to Googling**_


----------



## Reinventing21

Shula said:


> Did y'all see this mess? Castle Doctrine on somebody else's home?!!! Wooooowwwwww!


 


If a wreckless cop gets off for killing someone based on some kind of stand your ground when she wasn't at her own home and was not even aware as a COP, people will be in a world of trouble...


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Shula said:


> Did y'all see this mess? Castle Doctrine on somebody else's home?!!! Wooooowwwwww!


Yeah but I thought the state did a good job explaining to the jury why it doesnt apply.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Courts done for today...back at it 830am


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

Shula said:


> Did y'all see this mess? Castle Doctrine on somebody else's home?!!! Wooooowwwwww!


Nah no Castle Doctrine in this case. That jury would be a fool to consider it.  That would mean the victim had a right to kill her, and rightly so.

Let's just have a thug with nothing to lose take one for the team and be done with this idiot cop.


----------



## michelle81

Jmartjrmd said:


> Right during her testimony she herself said she didnt remember what was taught in several of her police courses.  She probably blew off first aid day like she'd never have to use it or figured EMS would handle that.
> But those other officers were able to do it especially that last lady officer who was doing compressions.  She paid attention!
> I hope they convict on something.  I"m nervous.
> The victim has no rights it seems.



I'm more than positive that she knew first aid and CPR, I think most people have seen enough movies to know to hold pressure on a spot that's bleeding.

She just had better things to do instead of trying to save a black man in her apartment. She instead wanted to explain to 911 why she shot him and she wanted to text her lover instead. She never asked 911 "what can I do to save him, I think he's dying". She was just selfish and only concerned about how this was going to affect her.

I think she's racist and touching a black man's blood would be something she can't even fathom doing even though I'm sure she had to have gloves in her bag as well.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Jury asked 2 questions
One about clear definition of manslaughter 
One about castle doctrine


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Waiting to see  as they pushed red button again...no word on if it's another question or verdict


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Jmartjrmd said:


> Waiting to see  as they pushed red button again...no word on if it's another question or verdict


It was another question.  4 hours 45 minutes into deliberations.  no verdict yet

They asked to see an exhibit then not long after judge was reading the verdict.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Guilty of murder!!!!!


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Court will resume at 1pm central time for penalty phase.


----------



## Rsgal

Jmartjrmd said:


> Guilty of murder!!!!!


----------



## GreenEyedJen

YUSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got worried when the judge instructed the jury they could consider the castle doctrine---I figured he'd been observing them and was worried that they weren't buying her story, so he tried a Hail Mary. TOO BAD, SO SAD!


----------



## Crackers Phinn

Well look at that.  I didn't think they would get the murder charge to stick but maybe enough brown people were on the jury to make a difference.

Now let's see what that sentencing do.


----------



## TrulyBlessed




----------



## [email protected]@

So, does this mean shes definitely going to be sentenced accordingly? Or is there a chance this can be overturned?


----------



## Ms. Tarabotti

TrulyBlessed said:


> View attachment 451811




Oh my, those white tears are flowing........


----------



## HappilyLiberal

[email protected]@ said:


> So, does this mean shes definitely going to be sentenced accordingly? Or is there a chance this can be overturned?


She can always try to appeal...  but verdicts rarely get overturned.  She's going to prison.  I want to see how much time they give her.  The Hail Mary they threw was charging her with murder instead of manslaughter.  That decision bit her in the butt!  Too bad, so sad!


----------



## Shula

TrulyBlessed said:


> View attachment 451811




I hope this face lives on in meme infamy as the represention of white woman tears/shenanigans *BLOCKEDT! *

Didn't realize how much tension I was holding anticipating them screwing this up. I am pleased.


----------



## Farida

I agreed with the judge that castle doctrine should have been allowed. If you are going to argue that she mistakenly thought she was in her own home then you can apply mistake of fact to the other elements of the defense. It’s abhorrent but that’s the law. 

And be glad she allowed it because that’s one less appeal ground. Because trust if the judge had excluded it she would have argued on appeal for a new trial. It is almost impossible to get a new trial based on a theory that the jury ruled wrong on the facts. But if you argue a misapplication of the law appellate court eat that up. And the defense introduced a new appellate decision during jury instructions. So I stand with the judge.


----------



## intellectualuva

I am surprised. I figured she was good as gold and may even be back to work as a cop after a few months.


----------



## Farida

[email protected]@ said:


> So, does this mean shes definitely going to be sentenced accordingly? Or is there a chance this can be overturned?



They shall sentence her but I guarantee she will appeal. The appeal shall challenge the jury instructions, the exclusion of negligent homicide, the exclusion of some of her expert testimony. Probably challenge that manslaughter was more appropriate. Possibly challenge the prosecution argument about her actions AFTER he was shot. Typically not rendering aid would not be considered as proof of murder. State of mind but not to support the murder.

But I think she is going to serve time. I highly doubt the entire conviction would be overturned or reduced unless the appeals court finds reversible error.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

I thought she would get off until I heard her testimony.  I believe had she not said she heard someone in there prior to going in it would  have helped her some.
Hope a few jurors speak but I know they were very concerned about their identity getting out so judge wouldn't allow their voices to be heard individually.

Anyone know why she wadnt taken into custody right away or is this normal until after sentence.

Also heard she could be out on bond awaiting the appeal  if the sentence is 10 years or less.  Is that common?

I learned a lot watching  every second of this case.

I will wear some red today to honor Mr. Jean.  Red was his favorite color and that's why his family and sometimes the state wore red..in his honor.


----------



## Bette Davis Eyes

Well look at this! 


 Im at work with the YTs that dont understand and Im just sitting here looking at them like


----------



## Laela

GOODT.



TrulyBlessed said:


> View attachment 451811


----------



## Farida

Jmartjrmd said:


> I thought she would get off until I heard her testimony.  I believe had she not said she heard someone in there prior to going in it would  have helped her some.
> Hope a few jurors speak but I know they were very concerned about their identity getting out so judge wouldn't allow their voices to be heard individually.
> 
> Anyone know why she wadnt taken into custody right away or is this normal until after sentence.
> 
> Also heard she could be out on bond awaiting the appeal  if the sentence is 10 years or less.  Is that common?
> 
> I learned a lot watching  every second of this case.
> 
> I will wear some red today to honor Mr. Jean.  Red was his favorite color and that's why his family and sometimes the state wore red..in his honor.



They will probably wait for sentencing. Also remember if she gets 10 years or fewer she can request to be out on bond while her appeal is pending. So that’s probably why they are waiting.


----------



## NijaG

I’m glad she was found guilty. Hopefully her sentence reflects her crime.

Basically because she had a gun and was also a cop, she deliberately chose not to follow any common sense protocol. 

The little of her personal life shows lack of integrity and reckless thoughts and behavior.


----------



## awhyley

#JusticeforBo


----------



## prettyinpurple

Yes!

I saw the verdict and ran to this thread.



Jmartjrmd said:


> I thought she would get off until I heard her testimony.  I believe had she not said she heard someone in there prior to going in it would  have helped her some.
> Hope a few jurors speak but I know they were very concerned about their identity getting out so judge wouldn't allow their voices to be heard individually.
> 
> Anyone know why she wadnt taken into custody right away or is this normal until after sentence.
> 
> Also heard she could be out on bond awaiting the appeal  if the sentence is 10 years or less.  Is that common?
> 
> I learned a lot watching  every second of this case.
> 
> I will wear some red today to honor Mr. Jean.  Red was his favorite color and that's why his family and sometimes the state wore red..in his honor.


Yep if she had shown remorse at the time and tried to actually help him, she might have gotten off or not been charged in the first place. But she stood there and let him die.

If he had shot her, I bet her supporters would argue that the castle doctrine doesn't apply.


----------



## luthiengirlie

I dont  understand  why theyre talking about Marijuana  and applications? Whats that have to do with anything


----------



## Transformer

How much do you think that blonde dye job cost.....just for the trial.  Tears cued to appear at the right time and it still didn’t help.

Well the police union need to raise dues to pay for her appeal.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

this is some small relief for his family


----------



## OneShinyface

Watching the judge read Amber's text messages. She is shaking her head in disbelief. The comments on the live feed though are wild. People calling her Auntie Tammy and talking about how she so stressed she has sweated out her edge control.


----------



## rabs77

Link to the text messages? Or video?


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

Hearing how the mother is trying to cope was very sad to hear.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

rabs77 said:


> Link to the text messages? Or video?


They will be read at some point during penalty phase..  They were not let in during the trial.  Something yo do with an MLK parade she worked.
Her social media posts are out there though.


----------



## alanaturelle

Gosh, that poor mother. I hope her testimony helps with the sentencing because I just couldn't do it. She is so poised, so well spoken and so wise. My heart breaks for her.


----------



## Kiowa

Those racist texts


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

She is getting decades.  Too late to defend yourself.  She doesn't think highly of her black colleagues (black police officers).


----------



## Farida

Jmartjrmd said:


> I thought she would get off until I heard her testimony.  I believe had she not said she heard someone in there prior to going in it would  have helped her some.
> Hope a few jurors speak but I know they were very concerned about their identity getting out so judge wouldn't allow their voices to be heard individually.
> 
> Anyone know why she wadnt taken into custody right away or is this normal until after sentence.
> 
> Also heard she could be out on bond awaiting the appeal  if the sentence is 10 years or less.  Is that common?
> 
> I learned a lot watching  every second of this case.
> 
> I will wear some red today to honor Mr. Jean.  Red was his favorite color and that's why his family and sometimes the state wore red..in his honor.



So turns out the law was changed in 2017. The 10-year appeal bond. Let’s see what happens


----------



## Crackers Phinn

I love that all them folks phone numbers is on there for the world to spam.  Martin Rivera go have some 'splainin to do. 



Kiowa said:


> Those racist texts


----------



## Kiowa

adjourned for today


----------



## Jmartjrmd

OneShinyface said:


> Watching the judge read Amber's text messages. She is shaking her head in disbelief. The comments on the live feed though are wild. People calling her Auntie Tammy and talking about how she so stressed she has sweated out her edge control.


They better leave Judge Tammy alone .  I thought she was likeable.


----------



## Farida

I was just talking to someone I know who was a police officer for more than 10 years. He was also military police before joining the cops. I am always curious to hear from LE since we don’t know what it’s like.

Dude is republican and white.

He said he had he hadn’t watched the trial but when he first heard the story he knew her explanation was BS. 

He said when you are military or LE you could be dog tired, fall asleep dead. He has worked shifts or been up 24/7 working while in the military. He said he and his pals would sometimes fall asleep from exhaustion but as soon as the ish hits the fan and you are in fear for your life you get this insane adrenaline rush. You go from dead asleep, zero to 100%. You become extremely aware of your surroundings and alert to what is going on. So he doesn’t buy Amber’s story. In fact, in his opinion her police training would make her react the opposite of a civilian. They are trained for that.

He said “good” when I told him she was convicted. I was surprised.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

Farida said:


> I was just talking to someone I know who was a police officer for more than 10 years. He was also military police before joining the cops. I am always curious to hear from LE since we don’t know what it’s like.
> 
> Dude is republican and white.
> 
> He said he had he hadn’t watched the trial but when he first heard the story he knew her explanation was BS.
> 
> He said when you are military or LE you could be dog tired, fall asleep dead. He has worked shifts or been up 24/7 working while in the military. He said he and his pals would sometimes fall asleep from exhaustion but as soon as the ish hits the fan and you are in fear for your life you get this insane adrenaline rush. You go from dead asleep, zero to 100%. You become extremely aware of your surroundings and alert to what is going on. So he doesn’t buy Amber’s story. In fact, in his opinion her police training would make her react the opposite of a civilian. They are trained for that.
> 
> He said “good” when I told him she was convicted. I was surprised.


Meh.  They tend not to want women in the military or the police force anyway tho.  But, enemy of my enemy is my friend today.


----------



## alanaturelle

Kiowa said:


> Those racist texts



It makes so much more sense that the defense was objecting to showing these during the trial and two why the judge was shaking her head while reviewing them! I'm so glad that the jury despite not seeing this still found her guilty of murder.


----------



## Shula

I really hope they come through on her sentencing. This is repugnant.


----------



## TrulyBlessed




----------



## Laela

^^^ SMH... there's always one.
ETA: Some are saying it's a contraband check, directed by the guy sitting behind the murderer.. I doubt it


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Poor Alexis and poor daddy.  I cant handle it.  
What a great young man.  I'm so sad.


----------



## TrulyBlessed

Laela said:


> ^^^ SMH... there's always one.
> ETA: Some are saying it's a contraband check, directed by the guy sitting behind the murderer.. I doubt it



I sure hope so because all I see is this


----------



## Crackers Phinn

TrulyBlessed said:


>


I literally watched this with my mouth open the same way I watched that black woman hop her  over the fence into the lions den. 

If I see a video today of a black woman eating mayonnaise directly out the container, I'm  renouncing my black woman citizenship and from hence forth declaring myself a Glitter Mermaid American.


----------



## rabs77

Crackers Phinn said:


> I literally watched this with my mouth open the same way I watched that black woman hop her  over the fence into the lions den.
> 
> If I see a video today of a black woman eating mayonnaise directly out the container, I'm  renouncing my black woman citizenship and from hence forth declaring myself a Glitter Mermaid American.


Right  behind you..re-woman in the lion’s den.. I was squinting so hard for proof she wasn’t black


----------



## Laela

Yep... aftereffects of slavery.. poor ting..



TrulyBlessed said:


> I sure hope so because all I see is this


----------



## alanaturelle

Alexis's testimonial was brutal to watch. Waking up to an "LOL" text from him and a phone call letting you know of his death!! Gosh, that's brutal. I can't imagine what she must be going through. It seemed that they had a great friendship.


----------



## TrulyBlessed

Looking like Chucky.


----------



## Anacaona

10 years......

And with time served, good behavior/parole, etc she’ll be out before we inaugurate the next President


----------



## luthiengirlie

Anacaona said:


> 10 years......


Not nearly enough


----------



## Jmartjrmd

What heck was that...


----------



## Farida

I try not to harbor ill-will towards those who have hurt me because that can consume you...

But that right there. Couldn’t be I....and honestly if my son had died and a family member did that I probably would be upset.


----------



## Bette Davis Eyes

10 years ??


----------



## Anacaona

Sooooooo,

Victim’s brother is hugging the murderer, says he forgives her, loves her, doesn’t want her to go to jail.

Judge also hugging the murder, gifts her with a bible, offers words of encouragement and scriptures (assuming since I can’t make her words out well)

I can’t believe what I’m seeing but given the elements can’t be too surprised. Officially done with this and the kumbaya, everythang is gonna be alright-ness


----------



## FriscoGirl

I don’t understand the verdict of murder ONLY carrying 10years, but I guess this is where each state is different. I assumed that murder came with at least 20 to life. 

The family can sue her civilly for wrongful death and bankrupt her for life.


----------



## awhyley

Anacaona said:


> Sooooooo,
> 
> *Victim’s brother is hugging the murderer, says he forgives her, loves her, doesn’t want her to go to jail.*
> 
> Judge also hugging the murder, gifts her with a bible, offers words of encouragement and scriptures (assuming since I can’t make her words out well)
> 
> I can’t believe what I’m seeing but given the elements can’t be too surprised. Officially done with this and the kumbaya, everythang is gonna be alright-ness



Girl, I was like   (hugging and mess starts at around 1.50)


----------



## Jmartjrmd

awhyley said:


> Girl, I was like   (hugging and mess starts at around 1.50)


This has to be part of the script already written for the Hollywood movie cause this can't be real.


----------



## Farida

FriscoGirl said:


> I don’t understand the verdict of murder ONLY carrying 10years, but I guess this is where each state is different. I assumed that murder came with at least 20 to life.
> 
> The family can sue her civilly for wrongful death and bankrupt her for life.


There’s different classifications of murder. Most people think of premeditated murders when they think of murder. That’s the type of murder that carries life sentences, death sentences.

Each state is different with how they classify the different types of murder and the sentencing.

The family is going to want to sue the PD but they cannot do that without naming her as a defendant so she’ll be named.


----------



## Laela

Like you, I can forgive and move on...but begging to hug a murderer is just asinine..what is he trying to prove?



Farida said:


> I try not to harbor ill-will towards those who have hurt me because that can consume you...
> 
> But that right there. Couldn’t be I....and honestly if my son had died and a family member did that I probably would be upset.


----------



## luthiengirlie

I'd forgive.. behind the scenes..
But I'd rip into..

Lemme be good


----------



## TrulyBlessed

...


----------



## alanaturelle

WOW!!! I need to compose myself!


----------



## Alta Angel

Why do we love the "Forgiveness Narrative" so much?  When Dylann Roof murdered the SC church members, the sun hadn't set before some Black people were talking about forgiving him.  Can we be mad for a dam* minute?  Ugh...



awhyley said:


> Girl, I was like   (hugging and mess starts at around 1.50)


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Alta Angel said:


> Why do we love the "Forgiveness Narrative" so much?  When Dylann Roof murdered the SC church members, the sun hadn't set before some Black people were talking about forgiving him.  Can we be mad for a dam* minute?  Ugh...


I'm mad.  Feels like a win for the defense


----------



## Alta Angel

Welp, now I see that the judge actually stepped down from the bench to hug Amber and give her a bible.  I am officially done.


----------



## Theresamonet

These types of displays from black people really make me sick to my stomach. It’s the only time I ever want to unzip and remove my black skin.


----------



## oneastrocurlie

Alta Angel said:


> Welp, now I see that the judge actually stepped down from the bench to hug Amber and give her a bible.  I am officially done.



Is it white privilege? Cause I can't see a black defendant getting the same treatment. Or only 10 years.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

I was thinking about how much time she deserved and I kinda think a 10 year sentence is reasonable cuz she ain't go do all 10 years.  Ole girl is an a-hole but I do think she made a mistake that she can sit in jail and think about for probably 4-6 years and then try  live out her days trying to earn a living with a murder conviction in her background search.  

People have to pay for  their mistakes especially the kinds of mistakes that leave people irrevocably damaged.  A lot of crime that gets called mistakes was the mistake was getting caught.   I got no love and definitely no forgiveness for ole girl and would say almost the same  thing if it was a black woman cop.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

Alta Angel said:


> *Why do we love the "Forgiveness Narrative" so much?*  When Dylann Roof murdered the SC church members, the sun hadn't set before some Black people were talking about forgiving him.  Can we be mad for a dam* minute?  Ugh...


I have far more controversial theories on the bolded but I'll leave it at black folks expect every other race to return the "forgiveness favor" when "we" are on the needing forgiveness side.  They don't, haven't and won't tho.


----------



## Alta Angel

Yes!  And in my opinion, misplaced application of Christian principles and a deeply rooted belief in white superiority.  


oneastrocurlie said:


> Is it white privilege? Cause I can't see a black defendant getting the same treatment. Or only 10 years.


----------



## dancinstallion

Dh was so mad when he saw the brother hug the murderer. He called me and said I don't understand.

I have never understood and I don't want to. She shot that man in cold blood and is already forgiven? Naw.  I always said forgiveness is overrated.

I really hope the brother was paid for that hug because people will do anything for money.


----------



## discodumpling

These black folks doing too much.I wish she is handled expeditiously on arrival. I hope she gets shanked as soon as she steps in the yard. I hope even the y/t gangs are mad at her and wont let her sit with them. I hope she becomes the girlfriend of the greasiest y/t girl. I hope they make her a pet.


----------



## GreenEyedJen

I haven’t watched a second of this trial and I now take back the “YUUSSSSSS” I posted earlier. A dang hug?! A dang bible from the arbiter? 

A mess.


----------



## Brwnbeauti

These folks get on my nerves with these outward expressions of forgiveness and "sympathy" 
Guess I'm Old Testament in that area.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

dancinstallion said:


> Dh was so mad when he saw the brother hug the murderer. He called me and said I don't understand.
> 
> I never understood and I don't want to. She shot that man in cold blood and is already forgiven? Naw.  I always said forgiveness is overrated.
> 
> I really hope the brother was paid for that hug because people will do anything for money.


I only take comfort in this was just the 18 year old brothers  view.   I think mom was disappointed and her speech after was good. 
Ain't no way I'd be talking about all that.
My toddler daughter was killed in a preventable accident and if my family had said they forgive her killer I'd flip out.  I just cant phantom fixing my lips to say I forgive you AND a beg to hug...no sir!


----------



## sheanu

Jmartjrmd said:


> I only take comfort in this was just the 18 year old brothers  view.   I think mom was disappointed and her speech after was good.
> Ain't no way I'd be talking about all that.
> My toddler daughter was killed in a preventable accident and if my family had said they forgive her killer I'd flip out.  I just cant phantom fixing my lips to say I forgive you AND a beg to hug...no sir!


I'm so sorry about your daughter.


----------



## Theresamonet

Crackers Phinn said:


> I was thinking about how much time she deserved and I kinda think a 10 year sentence is reasonable cuz she ain't go do all 10 years.  Ole girl is an a-hole but I do think she made a mistake that she can sit in jail and think about for probably 4-6 years and then try  live out her days trying to earn a living with a murder conviction in her background search.
> 
> People have to pay for  their mistakes especially the kinds of mistakes that leave people irrevocably damaged.  A lot of crime that gets called mistakes was the mistake was getting caught.   I got no love and definitely no forgiveness for ole girl and would say almost the same  thing if it was a black woman cop.



I think her showing up at that apartment was a mistake to begin with, but everything after that was a combo of recklessness, negligence, and disregard for black lives...  But I thought she was going to walk. It’s almost a miracle she was found guilty of murder, so I’ll take the 10 year sentence.


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

Did you all enjoyed the miniseries?


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

oneastrocurlie said:


> Is it white privilege? Cause I can't see a black defendant getting the same treatment. Or only 10 years.


*


Alta Angel said:



			Yes!  And in my opinion, misplaced application of Christian principles and a deeply rooted belief in white superiority.
		
Click to expand...

Quoted for emphasis!*


----------



## Bklynqueen

awhyley said:


> Girl, I was like   (hugging and mess starts at around 1.50)


I was LIVID when I saw this.  WHY DO BLACK PEOPLE DO THIS ****??!!!  This has got to be some kind of residual brainwashing from slavery.  Why the hell would he hug the person who MURDERED his sibling?  Why would he cry over her?  Does his mother's tears mean nothing?!!!  Does his brother life mean nothing - yet he feels pity for this racist witch?  What if she got off- would she even give him a hug??? What is it about a crying YT woman that sends out a *Negro distress call* to go and comfort said Yts?  Same blasted thing with the Charleston church killings- Black people talking about forgive- *** THAT!  I notice it be the real religious folks too- do they want to get to heaven that damn bad?

I know one thing, if he was my son, he would need to find another place to sleep tonight- I wouldn't want him near my presence after that BS.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

GreenEyedJen said:


> I haven’t watched a second of this trial and I now take back the “YUUSSSSSS” I posted earlier. A dang hug?! A dang bible from the arbiter?
> 
> A mess.


I watched the whole thing  all day everyday took notes and everything because it gave me something to focus on other than my current issues.
I want my week back.
Folks getting more time for selling drugs.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Bklynqueen said:


> I was LIVID when I saw this.  WHY DO BLACK PEOPLE DO THIS ****??!!!  This has got to be some kind of residual brainwashing from slavery.  Why the hell would he hug the person who MURDERED his sibling?  Why would you he cry over her?  Does his mother's tears mean nothing?!!!  Does his brother life mean nothing yet he feels pity for this racist witch?  What if she got off- would she even give him a hug??? What is it about a crying YT woman that sends out a *Negro distress call* to go and comfort said Yts?  Same blasted thing with the Charleston church killings- Black people talking about forgive- *** THAT!  I notice it be the real religious folks too- do they want to get to heaven that damn bad?
> 
> I know one thing, if he was my son, he would need to find another place to sleep tonight- I wouldn't want him near my presence after that BS.


Yes!  All this spot on!  Especially him needing to sleep in the car tonight.  GTH out my hotel room.


----------



## Laela

!!



ThirdEyeBeauty said:


> Did you all enjoyed the miniseries?


----------



## Theresamonet

awhyley said:


> Girl, I was like   (hugging and mess starts at around 1.50)



The comments.


----------



## luthiengirlie

Allowing myself  to look at this difftentlu
I dont personally know Mr. Jean and his family  have no right to tell  them  how to  conduct  themselves.  THIS IS THIER PAIN.
Yes I have strong feelings  about it
Yes they didnt do what I would.
But this  is.. THIER PAIN.
They did what  THEY needed to do.
 It ain't ABOUT US  in that sense.

Now that JUDGE  THO


----------



## Kanky

I haven’t watched the videos, because watching that kind of thing makes me nauseous, but did the murderer even ask for forgiveness? It seems to me that she plead not guilty, tried to blame the  victim for his death and lied about the fact that he died alone on the floor in his apartment without so much as an attempt to save him or an apology from the woman who shot him. She was more worried about her job than about the confused, dying man bleeding out on the floor.

I have read the Bible and forgiveness is for people who repent and are willing to make restitution and accept punishment. I’m betting that she could’ve gotten a plea bargain manslaughter deal for 10 years and spared everyone this trial. She’s not sorry. Maybe after a few years in jail she will be, but I doubt it. She’s a horrible person. The racist jokes, the married boyfriend, the reckless disregard for others  and lack of compassion.  I don’t feel the least bit sorry for her.


----------



## TrulyBlessed




----------



## Laela

^^ wow...now that hug makes sense. Disgusting.


----------



## oneastrocurlie

luthiengirlie said:


> Allowing myself  to look at this difftentlu
> I dont personally know Mr. Jean and his family  have no right to tell  them  how to  conduct  themselves.  THIS IS THIER PAIN.
> Yes I have strong feelings  about it
> Yes they didnt do what I would.
> But this  is.. THIER PAIN.
> They did what  THEY needed to do.
> It ain't ABOUT US  in that sense.
> 
> Now that JUDGE  THO



I can agree with this. Being close to someone who lost a loved one in a mass shooting, not even going to question how his family is trying to make it make sense. He may regret that gesture later on. Didn't realize his age before. Still kind of bothers me. 

What bothers me more is the judge and bailiff. I don't understand why they felt the need to do that.


----------



## SoniT

I won't judge the brother but I am absolutely disgusted by the judge.


----------



## michelle81

oneastrocurlie said:


> I can agree with this. Being close to someone who lost a loved one in a mass shooting, not even going to question how his family is trying to make it make sense. He may regret that gesture later on. Didn't realize his age before. Still kind of bothers me.
> 
> What bothers me more is the judge and bailiff. I don't understand why they felt the need to do that.



Same with me. He's an 18 year old kid. I can't tell him how to grieve. I think he did what he felt was in his heart, despite him knowing everyone else didn't agree. No judgment on the kid at all from me.

Now the grown lady stroking Amber's hair? Seriously, now she needs a talking to and I hope her family and friends laid into her about that.

The judge? I think it was all for show. I don't care about her hugging and giving the Bible, but why not wait and go visit her in jail if you're that moved and want to preach a word to her. She was still in her robe and should have kept impartial or only act with compassion towards Botham's family.


----------



## michelle81

Crackers Phinn said:


> I was thinking about how much time she deserved and I kinda think a 10 year sentence is reasonable cuz she ain't go do all 10 years.  Ole girl is an a-hole but I do think she made a mistake that she can sit in jail and think about for probably 4-6 years and then try  live out her days trying to earn a living with a murder conviction in her background search.
> 
> People have to pay for  their mistakes especially the kinds of mistakes that leave people irrevocably damaged.  A lot of crime that gets called mistakes was the mistake was getting caught.   I got no love and definitely no forgiveness for ole girl and would say almost the same  thing if it was a black woman cop.



If she was to serve out all ten, then sure. She will be eligible for parole after 5 and I'm positive she will get it. That's not enough for admittedly taking someone's life when she had options to call for backup, texting her lover instead of doing CPR, and outright stating that she's a racist in her texts.

I think some of those celebrities are getting in the 5 year range for cheating on the SAT. People get 5 years for tax evasion and food stamp fraud. Very rare to get 5 years for intentionally shooting someone and not following her training to call for backup. I think I can guarantee that it would have been more than 5 if she had killed a white woman.

Yes I know she got 10, but it's up to the parole board for her to get out after only 5 years. She's a cop and a half-blonde white woman. She will only serve 5 and be out at the age of 36 in the prime of her life. Meanwhile in 5 years, Botham's family will still be in the thick of grieving.


----------



## Shula

Shula said:


> I really hope they come through on her sentencing. This is repugnant.




NARRATOR: They didn't come through.


----------



## awhyley

Off topic, but sweet.  
This portrait will hang on the 20th floor at PwC in Dallas in memory of Bo.



Link:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/201...am-jeans-former-dallas-coworkers-hold-memory/


----------



## Jmartjrmd

michelle81 said:


> If she was to serve out all ten, then sure. She will be eligible for parole after 5 and I'm positive she will get it. That's not enough for admittedly taking someone's life when she had options to call for backup, texting her lover instead of doing CPR, and outright stating that she's a racist in her texts.
> 
> I think some of those celebrities are getting in the 5 year range for cheating on the SAT. People get 5 years for tax evasion and food stamp fraud. Very rare to get 5 years for intentionally shooting someone and not following her training to call for backup. I think I can guarantee that it would have been more than 5 if she had killed a white woman.
> 
> Yes I know she got 10, but it's up to the parole board for her to get out after only 5 years. She's a cop and a half-blonde white woman. She will only serve 5 and be out at the age of 36 in the prime of her life. Meanwhile in 5 years, Botham's family will still be in the thick of grieving.


Yes! I agree with all this. 
After watching everything..pretrial interviews etc, I think the brothers gesture doesn't reflect the whole family's position.  They CLEARLY wanted a conviction and jail time for Amber. 
For me 10 years is another slap on the wrist for a cop.  They aren't treated the same.  They can kill us and either don't get charged or get BS sentences.  Like the cop that shot that kid 16 times getting a 6 year sentence.  Really? 
Us not getting angry and forgiving our murderers is why things will never change.  The next one will be the same And there will be a next one.  This didn't set any type of example.
Amber lied about what happened and we know she did.  She failed her first polygraph, she couldn't explain how he was coming at her from the window but ended up dead by the couch, how the shot that hit the wall ended up in the path it did and landed in the wall by his couch.  Both she and Martin tried to destroy evidence, she never once said she identified herself as a police officer, didn't render aid,  she was racist and on and on.
We can't expect change if we don't  demand change.
My first child died from liver failure.  My 2nd child was killed by a teen texting and driving who lost control  of his car and ran over her.  He was never charged.
I've spent so much time trying to get distracted driver laws changed in our state.  I won't ever be able to forgive but I can concede that's an individual thing.  His parents got to take him home to a warm bed.  I got to send my daughter to a cold morgue in a body bag.  Nope, unforgivable.


----------



## gn1g

I'm christian and I AM PSST!  Sorry I am not there yet.

I don't believe she thought it was her apartment - not for one minute . . .but if she did, if I lock my door and eave home, when I return and the door is ajar-ed, there's no way I am going in.side.  

All of those racist text messages and comments should've been allowed in the court - It could've been tried as a hate crime.

Now the brother, he gets a pass because he is not american and probably don't understand out race relation.  so if that is how he deals with his grief, God bless him.  God help him to heal.

BUT THE JUDGE and balif, hold your position and stay in your place!  WTH!  You don't need to be running up on* murderers* and stroking their hair, consoling them and hugging their necks.  That crap set us as a people back 40 years!  They don't do that when blacks murder other blacks.  

*10 years for murdering an almost picture perfect citizen!  I am appalled.*

I LOVED the mother Jean's speech and elegance.  I loved the father's speech too, they are in my prayers.

Amber's mother on the other hand, how old is she? 

Dallas needs to terminate Officer Riviera immediately, before quick can get ready.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

michelle81 said:


> If she was to serve out all ten, then sure. She will be eligible for parole after 5 and I'm positive she will get it. That's not enough for admittedly taking someone's life when she had options to call for backup, texting her lover instead of doing CPR, and outright stating that she's a racist in her texts.
> 
> I think some of those celebrities are getting in the 5 year range for cheating on the SAT. People get 5 years for tax evasion and food stamp fraud. Very rare to get 5 years for intentionally shooting someone and not following her training to call for backup. I think I can guarantee that it would have been more than 5 if she had killed a white woman.
> 
> Yes I know she got 10, but it's up to the parole board for her to get out after only 5 years. She's a cop and a half-blonde white woman. She will only serve 5 and be out at the age of 36 in the prime of her life. Meanwhile in 5 years, Botham's family will still be in the thick of grieving.


Of course she's not going to do all 10 years that's why I said she'd sit in jail 4-6 years on a 10 year sentence.   It doesn't matter what time she would have got for shooting a white woman cuz odds are she wouldn't have shot a white woman eating ice cream in what she thought was her apartment.   She shot a black man and because she's white and a cop so her white woman punishment is 10 years and a hug from the judge.  She's also going to go to a low security white collar prison where the guards who are also cops will take care of her for those 4-6 years of time she does. 

Life is only fair in this country if you are white and male or have the support of white males.


----------



## Farida

The boy is a son to immigrants. I will say for myself as an immigrant I don’t quite understand race relations in this country and experience it in a different way. I will attribute his behavior to his youth and being the son of immigrants. I know it’s not the same for all immigrants but that’s generally what I see.

I don’t begrudge him for dealing with it the way he sees fit. It is his loss.

However, the unfortunate fallout of his actions is that instead of the media focusing on his mother’s outrage and how she demanded change and justice from the PD....the brother’s actions have become the highlight.

It is the focus of all the media and is being widely shared in social media. It is also being co-opted as hey, “the family isn’t upset so why are the rest of you?” It basically settles the matter as “handled.”

The brother’s testimony will also absolutely be cited during her parole...he may even show up on her behalf. It shall be interesting to see what he feels like after being out in the adult world.

As for Christianity grace doesn’t absolve accountability in this world.


----------



## MilkChocolateOne

shawnyblazes said:


> 10 years ??



She's going to have a multi-million dollar book/movie deal after she's released early for good behavior.


----------



## Bette Davis Eyes

Farida said:


> The boy is a son to immigrants. I will say for myself as an immigrant I don’t quite understand race relations in this country and experience it in a different way. I will attribute his behavior to his youth and being the son of immigrants. I know it’s not the same for all immigrants but that’s generally what I see.
> 
> I don’t begrudge him for dealing with it the way he sees fit. It is his loss.
> 
> However, the unfortunate fallout of his actions is that instead of the media focusing on his mother’s outrage and how she demanded change and justice from the PD....the brother’s actions have become the highlight.
> 
> It is the focus of all the media and is being widely shared in social media. It is also being co-opted as hey, “the family isn’t upset so why are the rest of you?” It basically settles the matter as “handled.”
> 
> The brother’s testimony will also absolutely be cited during her parole...he may even show up on her behalf. It shall be interesting to see what he feels like after being out in the adult world.
> *
> As for Christianity grace doesn’t absolve accountability in this world*.


----------



## MilkChocolateOne

TrulyBlessed said:


>



welp


----------



## Southernbella.

Between the BW bailiff stroking her hair, the brother hugging her, the Daddy wanting to be her friend, and the judge coming off the bench to console her, I am utterly mystified.

The only silver lining, for me, is that I don't feel sad anymore and therefore I'm back to being carefree.


----------



## Southernbella.




----------



## gn1g

MilkChocolateOne said:


> She's going to have a multi-million dollar book/movie deal after she's released early for good behavior.


  girl funds are going to pour into her account, she will walk out with BIG BUCKS.

There is a such thing as conditional parole = 2.5 years on a 10 year sentence
and  does she qualify for bail while appealing her sentence?


----------



## SoniT

I missed the Daddy saying that he wanted to be her friend. Why?? I don't get it at all.


----------



## gn1g

Southernbella. said:


>



WTH!  surely this is not true. . .  I mean I was already thinking that maybe Brandt had a thing for YT women.


----------



## Farida

Southernbella. said:


>



I read the quote and I wonder if it was taken out of context. Maybe it’s my mind not being able to comprehend this when his mom is still hurting.

He said: 

“I’m not really surprised because we know how we raised him… The Holy Spirit was working,” Bertram said. “I’d like to become your friend at some point… I think I have the ability to do it and I would like to be a friend despite my loss. That’s why we are Christians.”

Was he commenting on what his son said/ did or actually saying he wanted to befriend Amber?

I guess I just cannot wrap my mind around this. Especially it happening so soon after the trial ended.


----------



## Zuleika

"I forgive you" "Can I give her a hug?"  

This is reminiscent of that woman from 'Dirty John'. Not only did she forgive the man who killed her daughter, she took the stand and testified on his behalf. What's wrong with these people?!


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Southernbella. said:


>


Dis tew much.
I got too emotionally invested in this case.  Hopefully the circus that has followed will die down.  They're overselling now
At least mom said if she forgives or not is between her and God.  At least she's speaking out over the issues surrounding her son's death.
If they wanted to make friends and have babies with Amber why the civil cases and outrage and calls for justice.  Just a mindset I don't have I guess.
People out here marching and protesting for you and you talking about making friends with a murderer.  Smh... puzzled


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

Theresamonet said:


> *I think her showing up at that apartment was a mistake to begin wit*h, but everything after that was a combo of recklessness, negligence, and disregard for black lives...  But I thought she was going to walk. It’s almost a miracle she was found guilty of murder, so I’ll take the 10 year sentence.



I agree, I think it may have started off as a mistake but once she got in that apartment and saw a black man she did what she always wanted to do, but thought she could get away with it.


----------



## michelle81

Farida said:


> The boy is a son to immigrants. I will say for myself as an immigrant I don’t quite understand race relations in this country and experience it in a different way. I will attribute his behavior to his youth and being the son of immigrants. I know it’s not the same for all immigrants but that’s generally what I see.
> 
> I don’t begrudge him for dealing with it the way he sees fit. It is his loss.
> 
> However, the unfortunate fallout of his actions is that instead of the media focusing on his mother’s outrage and how she demanded change and justice from the PD....the brother’s actions have become the highlight.
> 
> It is the focus of all the media and is being widely shared in social media. It is also being co-opted as hey, “the family isn’t upset so why are the rest of you?” It basically settles the matter as “handled.”
> 
> The brother’s testimony will also absolutely be cited during her parole...he may even show up on her behalf. It shall be interesting to see what he feels like after being out in the adult world.
> 
> As for Christianity grace doesn’t absolve accountability in this world.



I agree. I'd say about half of my immigrant friends (Indian, Nigerian, Ghanian, Caribbean) do not see race in America the same as I do an never will. I haven't figured out if that's to their advantage or not. Sometimes they don't pick up on the subtle things that I do and I guess that kind of keeps their life a bit simpler and carefree somewhat? On the other hand, they can get caught up in some circumstances quickly due to thinking that some people are their friends when they're probably not.

I will say I found it a little odd that Botham's best friend was a white woman. I know Harding is a PWI, but all of his pics from Harding shown on yesterday only included white friends.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

Farida said:


> The boy is a son to immigrants. I will say for myself as an immigrant I don’t quite understand race relations in this country and experience it in a different way. I will attribute his behavior to his youth and being the son of immigrants. I know it’s not the same for all immigrants but that’s generally what I see.
> 
> I don’t begrudge him for dealing with it the way he sees fit. It is his loss.
> 
> However, the unfortunate fallout of his actions is that instead of the media focusing on his mother’s outrage and how she demanded change and justice from the PD....the brother’s actions have become the highlight.
> 
> It is the focus of all the media and is being widely shared in social media. It is also being co-opted as hey, “the family isn’t upset so why are the rest of you?” It basically settles the matter as “handled.”
> 
> The brother’s testimony will also absolutely be cited during her parole...he may even show up on her behalf. It shall be interesting to see what he feels like after being out in the adult world.
> 
> As for Christianity grace doesn’t absolve accountability in this world.


I can concede the race component but the immigrant thing doesn't account for hugging somebody who killed your brother.  Not a cousin or uncle, aunt but the person you grew up in a house with.  I don't even like two out of three of my brothers and I just can't picture myself at any point in my life hugging somebody who harmed them let alone killed one of them.

My little brother who I love....somebody woulda got hugged with a 2 piece no biscuits.


----------



## Laela

I was listening to NPR today, and heard a man talk about this and was flabbergasted...

He basically says .. the boy is from St. Lucia, that was a "St Lucian hug"... (Whet's a St. Lucian hug?  ) .... and that blacks from the Caribbean don't  see things the same way due to racism in this country. So that was a cultural thing now? What that boy did was no different from Charleston worshipers.

 Well, he had to be a YT dude because Caribbean folks have also experienced slavery and racism and can relate, esp. if they've lived in the US long enough. He needs to have several seats...!


----------



## TrulyBlessed




----------



## Anacaona

Jmartjrmd said:


> Dis tew much.
> I got too emotionally invested in this case.  Hopefully the circus that has followed will die down.  They're overselling now
> At least mom said if she forgives or not is between her and God.  At least she's speaking out over the issues surrounding her son's death.
> If they wanted to make friends and have babies with Amber why the civil cases and outrage and calls for justice.  Just a mindset I don't have I guess.
> People out here marching and protesting for you and you talking about making friends with a murderer.  Smh... puzzled



ITA with this whole post x10000 and definitely peeped that as usual while the black men are trying their hardest to appeal to murderous Becks and the masses, the black women in the family (mom and sister) are focused on the real and uncomfortable that ended his life in the first place.


----------



## Theresamonet

Anacaona said:


> ITA with this whole post x10000 and definitely peeped that as usual while the black men are trying their hardest to appeal to murderous Becks and the masses, *the black women in the family (mom and sister) are focused on the real and uncomfortable that ended his life in the first place.*



Exactly. That’s why, IMO, this has nothing to do with age, grief or being an immigrant. This is a show of black men’s love and idolatry of white women. It apparently knows no bounds.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

TrulyBlessed said:


>


This video is out of pocket.
The verdict was guilty so the black jurors did what they were supposed to do.  I'm in the minority on the 10 year sentencing but I think the judge did what she was supposed to do in that regard.   If Amber Guyger had a white judge and jury, she would not have been found guilty and she definitely wouldn't have gotten 10 years.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Crackers Phinn said:


> This video is out of pocket.
> The verdict was guilty so the black jurors did what they were supposed to do.  I'm in the minority on the 10 year sentencing but I think the judge did what she was supposed to do in that regard.   If Amber Guyger had a white judge and jury, she would not have been found guilty and she definitely wouldn't have gotten 10 years.


In Texas the jury decides the sentence or do you mean the judge as far as presiding over the whole case?


----------



## Alta Angel

Thank you for saying everything I wanted to say.  I am literally flabbergasted.  Has it really come to this?  Is the siren call of Becky that powerful that Black men want to hug and be "friends" with their killers?  As another poster said, I was too invested in this.  I'm done.



Theresamonet said:


> Exactly. That’s why, IMO, this has nothing to do with age, grief or being an immigrant. This is a show of black men’s love and idolatry of white women. It apparently knows no bounds.


----------



## Brwnbeauti

Jmartjrmd said:


> Yes! I agree with all this.
> After watching everything..pretrial interviews etc, I think the brothers gesture doesn't reflect the whole family's position.  They CLEARLY wanted a conviction and jail time for Amber.
> For me 10 years is another slap on the wrist for a cop.  They aren't treated the same.  They can kill us and either don't get charged or get BS sentences.  Like the cop that shot that kid 16 times getting a 6 year sentence.  Really?
> Us not getting angry and forgiving our murderers is why things will never change.  The next one will be the same And there will be a next one.  This didn't set any type of example.
> Amber lied about what happened and we know she did.  She failed her first polygraph, she couldn't explain how he was coming at her from the window but ended up dead by the couch, how the shot that hit the wall ended up in the path it did and landed in the wall by his couch.  Both she and Martin tried to destroy evidence, she never once said she identified herself as a police officer, didn't render aid,  she was racist and on and on.
> We can't expect change if we don't  demand change.
> My first child died from liver failure.  My 2nd child was killed by a teen texting and driving who lost control  of his car and ran over her.  He was never charged.
> I've spent so much time trying to get distracted driver laws changed in our state.  I won't ever be able to forgive but I can concede that's an individual thing.  His parents got to take him home to a warm bed.  I got to send my daughter to a cold morgue in a body bag.  Nope, unforgivable.


So sorry you had to go through this.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Brwnbeauti said:


> So sorry you had to go through this.


Thank you.


----------



## Southernbella.

Theresamonet said:


> Exactly. That’s why, IMO, this has nothing to do with age, grief or being an immigrant. This is a show of black men’s love and idolatry of white women. It apparently knows no bounds.



I don't disagree with this but how are we explaining the judge and the bailiff? Was that love or something else?


----------



## FelaShrine

Southernbella. said:


> I don't disagree with this but how are we explaining the judge and the bailiff? Was that love or something else?



The judge is the worst one imo


----------



## Crackers Phinn

Jmartjrmd said:


> In Texas the jury decides the sentence or do you mean the judge as far as presiding over the whole case?


 My mistake I thought the judge did sentencing. I didn’t hear any complaints about the judge until the hug so I still disagree with the video.


----------



## Laela




----------



## Laela

Something else...

Judges are supposed to uphold the integrity of the bench by avoiding impropriety or appearance of it, be IMPARTIAL and not engage in politics...IMHO she did all of this




Southernbella. said:


> I don't disagree with this but how are we explaining the judge and the bailiff? Was that love or something else?


----------



## Jmartjrmd




----------



## Bklynqueen

Laela said:


> I was listening to NPR today, and heard a man talk about this and was flabbergasted...
> 
> He basically says .. the boy is from St. Lucia, that was a "St Lucian hug"... (Whet's a St. Lucian hug?  ) .... and that blacks from the Caribbean don't  see things the same way due to racism in this country. So that was a cultural thing now? What that boy did was no different from Charleston worshipers.
> 
> Well, he had to be a YT dude because Caribbean folks have also experienced slavery and racism and can relate, esp. if they've lived in the US long enough. He needs to have several seats...!


Yeah, I agree- that was some BS answer.  I promise you, if they were Jamaican, Guyanese,etc..., they would have hauled her mudda c**t all over the courtroom.  Black Caribbeans are fully aware of racism but because there are barely any YTs in their country, they don't really FEEL it until they leave and come to the U.S, Canada, the UK, etc.  As a first gen American with West Indian background, my parents fully equipped and prepped my sister and myself in the ways of YT folks, especially when we went from our very Black elementary school to a very YT middle school.  So Bothom's parents and brother were on their religious zealot BS.  Also doesn't excuse the American judge & court officer's from their mammying behavior.


----------



## chocolat79

Zuleika said:


> "I forgive you" "Can I give her a hug?"
> 
> This is reminiscent of that woman from 'Dirty John'. Not only did she forgive the man who killed her daughter, she took the stand and testified on his behalf. What's wrong with these people?!


This is exactly who I thought of when I read this


----------



## TrulyBlessed




----------



## SoniT

I guess God still needs to work on me because I don't get it.


----------



## HappilyLiberal

SoniT said:


> I guess God still needs to work on me because I don't get it.



 Throw the judge and the whole family away!


----------



## gn1g

haha


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Little brother is supposed to be so traumatized that he's just a shell of himself.  That's what mom and sis told us.  I think he's just fine.  He waited a whole year for her tearless apology.  Great!  Let's forget her disdain for black people that's probably just a mistake.  
His private words were, " Me and dad can't wait for you to get out.  We will see you soon.  I promise first chance I get I'll be right by your side.  Don't you worry.  Me, daddy and Judge Tammy gonna get you out of there.  Because my brother, having had a hole RIP through his heart, hit a lung, tear through his diaphragm and his intestines and no doubt suffer a painful death as he struggled to get air while she lovingly provided a sternal rub, he would want this.   Had he survived he'd be so eager to speak at our wedding".

He's about to get paid for his "extraordinary " act of forgiveness.  TV appearances, someone:s going to have the book written and the Hollywood movie to follow.


----------



## Jmartjrmd




----------



## intellectualuva

Zuleika said:


> "I forgive you" "Can I give her a hug?"
> 
> This is reminiscent of that woman from 'Dirty John'. Not only did she forgive the man who killed her daughter, she took the stand and testified on his behalf. What's wrong with these people?!



Don't forget that she did tours/ speaking  engagements talking about forgiving him. 

I'm ok with not being nice or good or whatever this is called.


----------



## guyaneseyankee

Alta Angel said:


> Thank you for saying everything I wanted to say.  I am literally flabbergasted.  Has it really come to this?  Is the siren call of Becky that powerful that Black men want to hug and be "friends" with their killers?  As another poster said, I was too invested in this.  I'm done.



I had the worst day ever yesterday.  Nauseating.  And truly unbelievable.


----------



## Dposh167

Well...they're on their own now.
That boy didnt even wait a few years to forgive. The chic literally got sentenced and the care bear hug was ready for her. I'll be dammmned


----------



## Reinventing21

@Jmartjrmd  I have NEVER forgotten this case, it enraged me so.  This side by side comparison needs to literally flood the media.

I could not bring myself to click on the video of the judge, bailiff and Botham's brother as I knew I would implode.  White controlled media LOVE this to justify and perpetuate the concept that everyone loves and adores whites' self-assigned  'superiority' so whites can literally do whatever, and it will 'be alright'.

This psychological grip that holds so many captive under such blatant racism needs to be destroyed.

I know there are many of all 'minorities' who are immune to this racist narrative that has been shoved down everyone's throats for hundreds of years, but the ones who consciously and subconsciously believe this racist stupidity, are obstacles to progress.  And whites count on that.




Jmartjrmd said:


> View attachment 451881


----------



## Theresamonet

Southernbella. said:


> I don't disagree with this but how are we explaining the judge and the bailiff? Was that love or something else?



Something else... or maybe both? There’s a host of issues at play here. None having to do with age, grief, or immigrant status, imo. All having something to do with loving the white woman. 

I personally find the bro and dad most offensive. It’s their loved one that’s dead.


----------



## Laela

Reinventing21 said:


> @Jmartjrmd  I have NEVER forgotten this case, it enraged me so.  This side by side comparison needs to literally flood the media.
> 
> I could not bring myself to click on the video of the judge, bailiff and Botham's brother as I knew I would implode.  White controlled media LOVE this to justify and perpetuate the concept that everyone loves and adores whites' self-assigned  'superiority' so whites can literally do whatever, and it will 'be alright'.
> 
> This psychological grip that holds so many captive under such blatant racism needs to be destroyed.
> 
> I know there are many of all 'minorities' who are immune to this racist narrative that has been shoved down everyone's throats for hundreds of years, *but the ones who consciously and subconsciously believe this racist stupidity, are obstacles to progress.  And whites count on that*.


----------



## luthiengirlie

From the sister


----------



## Farida

Crackers Phinn said:


> I can concede the race component but the immigrant thing doesn't account for hugging somebody who killed your brother.  Not a cousin or uncle, aunt but the person you grew up in a house with.  I don't even like two out of three of my brothers and I just can't picture myself at any point in my life hugging somebody who harmed them let alone killed one of them.
> 
> My little brother who I love....somebody woulda got hugged with a 2 piece no biscuits.



True. I meant the immigrant part to apply to the fact that he didn’t consider the impact it would have on race and social justice issues.

As for the hugging I don’t get it but I have some super Christian friends who do stuff that makes really feel like God must working through them because their actions defy logic or emotion...


----------



## Southernbella.

Theresamonet said:


> Something else... or maybe both? There’s a host of issues at play here. None having to do with age, grief, or immigrant status, imo. All having something to do with loving the white woman.
> 
> I personally find the bro and dad most offensive. It’s their loved one that’s dead.



Of course but I'm never shocked when bm act like this. I'm shocked that this rat-faced murderer was somehow able to get these bw under her spell, too. One of the BW jurors did an interview this morning taking about how the prosecutors wanted 28 years but "I just couldn't do it. Amber Guyger will never be the same. She showed remorse and now she has to deal with this for the rest of her life."

I've never seen anything like it.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

The problem with the how much time person a vs person b got memes is they are not comparing apples to apples. 

 First of all, Florida is involved in the second case.  The black lady, Marissa Alexander fired a "warning shot" that she said went into the ceiling but was found in the wall behind where her husband was  while* her son* *was standing next to him*.  She was offered a 3 year plea from jump, but decided to roll the dice at trial where what she was charged with had a 20 year minimum sentence.  The problem was that where the police found the bullet didn't match her story.  The judge/jury couldn't have given her less time if they wanted to so she got 20 years.   The system actually worked with her to get that original 3 year plea and she's out of jail.  There are  a lot of days where I completely understand shooting your husband but you can't lie about ballistics under oath. 

Amber Guyger wasn't going into a trial with a mandatory 20 year sentence.  The minimum was 5 and she got 10.


----------



## Farida

michelle81 said:


> I agree. I'd say about half of my immigrant friends (Indian, Nigerian, Ghanian, Caribbean) do not see race in America the same as I do an never will. I haven't figured out if that's to their advantage or not. Sometimes they don't pick up on the subtle things that I do and I guess that kind of keeps their life a bit simpler and carefree somewhat? On the other hand, they can get caught up in some circumstances quickly due to thinking that some people are their friends when they're probably not.
> 
> I will say I found it a little odd that Botham's best friend was a white woman. I know Harding is a PWI, but all of his pics from Harding shown on yesterday only included white friends.



I cannot speak for everyone of course. But in my circle I have seen it.
At least for where I am from we grew up with the privilege of not being minorities. So we didn’t really think about race. I was just who I was, not a black person. Chimamanda Ngozi A gave a good speech talking about she became black when she came to America. White people don’t think about being white. They just are...they consider themselves the standard.

It is a privilege because I don’t carry the weight of race and identity. It takes me longer to conclude or even suspect I am being treated a certain way because of my race. It is not built into my character and experience.

It’s only after living here for years that I have understood more.
And now when I talk to my friends back home we are on a different page. They hardly ever see color when we discuss American issues. They can understand things on a theoretical or academic level but not the nuances. They would easily account for all issues before considering race as an issue.

Even with understanding things more it’s still not something I constantly think about and carry. Because it is not built into my life compared to my relatives who moved here when they were kids or were born here.

I hung out with a lot of white people because my schools and where I lived were mostly white and I didn’t think twice about it. But as I have understood more and started to feel the weight of race in this country my ideas and feelings are shifting. So I can only imagine how I would feel if I had been born here to parents who were born here as well.

Yes it does lead to dangerous situations not so much for me but I see it more with younger kids. My friend is Ugandan and being in a pretty white school and neighborhood her kids never considered themselves different. So they started doing stuff with white kids - trespassing, smoking weed, being out past curfew (the city also has a curfew for minors). She gets so angry and tries to explain to her kids that they won’t get the same pass as their white friends but they don’t get it.

Her older one is actually starting to understand it because he has gotten pulled over multiple times at night by cops. They assume he doesn’t live in the area or that his car isn’t his. It doesn’t help that he chose to pierce his ears and have dreadlocks. In these white areas you need to be clean cut like Botham. They will still stereotype you but not as much as with dreads and piercings.


----------



## TrulyBlessed




----------



## luthiengirlie

I'm torn. I'm like halfway righteous indignation and halfway..  this is not MY pain and I have no right to dictate how others should act about  Thier loss.. what his sister said well He did what HE needed to do..  keep the negativity out of your mouth.. i feel like i have to respct atht


----------



## Southernbella.

I didn't want to but I laughed.


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

Were there no decent Christian Universities with better diversity than the below average for ethnicity at Harding University that is even less diverse than the city it sits in that has a black population of 7%?

Why all the show for the tv?  The sister made it sounds like her little brother is healed because of his actions.  Forgiveness is more than a show for _us_ to see.


----------



## PhonyBaloney500

Chrissie has a great video on it. 
Talks of course about puny sentence and pathetic hugs and forgiveness from his male family and the black Woman judge. 

Also points out if a black Woman was the victim (especially one with mostly white boyfriends and platonic friends like John) she wouldn’t get the support from black men or black Women.


----------



## prettyinpurple

Southernbella. said:


> Of course but I'm never shocked when bm act like this. I'm shocked that this rat-faced murderer was somehow able to get these bw under her spell, too. One of the BW jurors did an interview this morning taking about how the prosecutors wanted 28 years but "I just couldn't do it. Amber Guyger will never be the same. She showed remorse and now she has to deal with this for the rest of her life."
> 
> I've never seen anything like it.


That interview angered me so much.

Also, they show the white guy who speaks well then put that black woman who does not next to him.  We know that was purposely done (unless she was the only black juror dumb enough to do the interview).

I'm mad that the white guy explained things better and gave us an an actual idea of what happened during deliberations.  He was pretty emotional.  Then the black woman comes along talking about some non-existent remorse was shown.  Nope.



ThirdEyeBeauty said:


> Were there no decent Christian Universities with better diversity than the below average for ethnicity at Harding University that is even less diverse than the city it sits in that has a black population of 7%?
> 
> Why all the show for the tv?  The sister made it sounds like her little brother is healed because of his actions.  Forgiveness is more than a show for _us_ to see.


It seems like these Christian school recruit immigrants pretty heavily :/


----------



## almond eyes

The family is on Dr. Phil.  I enjoy the interview, the mother and sister outraged by the entire thing and the lawyers are on point. They just seem like a family in a lot of shock and pain they are not in denial even the mother mentioned the issue of white privilege.  But yes, the younger son is processing everything from the interview and you can see that on his face.  I would not want to judge his actions because grief is a crazy thing. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Now little brother says he didn't know the cameras were on.  He thought his hug heard around the world was a private moment.

After sleeping on it I do agree he has to do what he feels is right for him to have peace.  Not for me to understand why.

I'm glad mom and sis clarified that they thought the sentence was too light but can't fault them for standing behind lil bro as I did yesterday.

Its been a good distraction discussing this case with you ladies.  

Wonder what yhe next big one will be.  whatever it is I'll be here lol.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

almond eyes said:


> The family is on Dr. Phil.  I enjoy the interview, the mother and sister outraged by the entire thing and the lawyers are on point. They just seem like a family in a lot of shock and pain they are not in denial even the mother mentioned the issue of white privilege.  But yes, the younger son is processing everything from the interview and you can see that on his face.  I would not want to judge his actions because grief is a crazy thing.
> 
> Best,
> Almond Eyes


Thanks for posting this.  Not a fan of Dr. Phil but i'd like to see the interview.  Off to find it.


----------



## FelaShrine

Southernbella. said:


> Of course but I'm never shocked when bm act like this. I'm shocked that this rat-faced murderer was somehow able to get these bw under her spell, too. *One of the BW jurors did an interview this morning taking about how the prosecutors wanted 28 years but "I just couldn't do it. Amber Guyger will never be the same. She showed remorse and now she has to deal with this for the rest of her life."*
> 
> I've never seen anything like it.



Gross. This really has been an irritating week with this mess.

Did any judge hug Treyvon's prents when Zimmerman was let go? whole thing is beyond disgusting.


----------



## FelaShrine

Farida said:


> I
> 
> Her older one is actually starting to understand it because he has gotten pulled over multiple times at night by cops. They assume he doesn’t live in the area or that his car isn’t his. It doesn’t help that he chose to pierce his ears and have dreadlocks. In these white areas you need to be clean cut like Botham. They will still stereotype you but not as much as with dreads and piercings.



Botham and his cleancutness is dead and his killer only got 10 years and getting a hugging tour so..


----------



## spacetygrss

luthiengirlie said:


> I'm torn. I'm like halfway righteous indignation and halfway..  this is not MY pain and I have no right to dictate how others should act about  Thier loss.. what his sister said well He did what HE needed to do..  keep the negativity out of your mouth.. i feel like i have to respct atht



The family has the right to  feel how they want to feel, but what they DON'T have the right to do is tell other people how to feel. They had NO PROBLEM with people sharing in their grief, so they are going to have to deal with how people react to the verdict and the brother and judge's actions after the trial. This trial gripped this city and the nation. It's a package deal.


----------



## luthiengirlie

spacetygrss said:


> The family has the right to  feel how they want to feel, but what they DON'T have the right to do is tell other people how to feel. They had NO PROBLEM with people sharing in their grief, so they are going to have to deal with how people react to the verdict and the brother and judge's actions after the trial. This trial gripped this city and the nation. It's a package deal.



Understood... man
. This is a mess


----------



## Southernbella.

Coincidence?


----------



## Anacaona




----------



## michelle81

Wow. 
His testimony was really powerful against Amber.

Obviously I don't know him, but that hurts me after just watching him tell his story last week.


----------



## Laela

WOAH...this is getting weird. My heart hurts for his mother!


----------



## Southernbella.




----------



## michelle81

Well, I think we all know just how hard Dallas PD will be investigating to find his murderer. Not at all.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Omg not Joshua.  How crazy.  That's just nuts.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Shot in the mouth? They didn’t exactly try to be subtle


----------



## FelaShrine

michelle81 said:


> Well, I think we all know just how hard Dallas PD will be investigating to find his murderer. Not at all.



FBI should deal with this, this was a hit by Dallas PD


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

Didn't Joshua Brown move?  Any cameras in his area?


----------



## discodumpling

Joshua Brown's murder is no coincidence. With all the obvious wrongs in this case his murder was highly unnecessary! Just another savage move to show they have the power.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

discodumpling said:


> Joshua Brown's murder is no coincidence. With all the obvious wrongs in this case his murder was highly unnecessary! Just another savage move to show they have the power.



Right?  They were extremely brazen with it.


----------



## Reinventing21

That is so messed up!

I am wondering about those other cops named in those racist texts.


----------



## BellaRose

Oh geez.  I just read an article where it is said the witness got murdered on Friday night. RIP Joshua Brown. This was a message.  Don't talk against the police.


----------



## Farida

This is why I was 


FelaShrine said:


> Botham and his cleancutness is dead and his killer only got 10 years and getting a hugging tour so..


Not saying that people won’t go after black people no matter what...but we all know a huge reason we had the outcome is because they tried their darnedest and could only find weed about Botham. 

Anyway, I only told that story to illustrate how my friend’s kids don’t have fear and don’t seem to understand what it means to black in this country.


----------



## Farida

Things like this make me wish I had chosen a different line of work. I feel like I need to leave the country. I am tired of these stories.


----------



## Jmartjrmd

#justiceforJoshuaBrown

I hope the streets start talking soon to solve this murder. 

Lots of conflicting information being passed around right now.

I'm still sad over this.


----------



## TrulyBlessed




----------



## HappilyLiberal

FelaShrine said:


> FBI should deal with this, this was a hit by Dallas PD




Unfortunately, with 5.625 in office, I am not holding my breath on a FBI investigation!


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Could have been a retaliation killing as more info comes to light.........
_
*Brown had been shot before*


Brown had survived a shooting nearly a year before his death, Merritt said.

He was shot near a strip club in Dallas in November 2018, Merritt said. Another person 
was killed in the shooting, Merritt told CNN by phone Sunday.

Both Brown and his family believed he was targeted in that shooting by someone he knew and had grown up with.

"And he was concerned that that person might try to come back and finish the job," Merritt 
said, adding that the shooter in that case hasn't been caught.

Relatives of the person who was killed, Nicholas Shaquan Diggs, blamed Brown for his death, according to Merritt. He said they "promised retribution," but he did not say who told him so.
Brown moved out of South Side Flats about three months after Jean was killed in September 2018, according to Merritt. He tried to keep a "low profile intentionally until some of the heat from the shooting in November passed over," Merritt added.
*He was subpoenaed to testify*


Yet, he was thrust into the spotlight of a major trial.

"He did not want to testify in that trial," Merritt said. "He made it clear he had no interest in testifying in open court in that trial."
Despite his protestations, Brown was subpoenaed to testify, according to Merritt, who is also an attorney for Jean's family.

The attention that came with being a part of a high profile trial didn't sit well with Brown, who was bothered by the attention, Merritt said.

"(Brown's mother) knows that her son was really bothered by the fact that he was given a lot of exposure from the trial, a lot of unwanted attention," he said.

Although Merritt said the family wasn't aware of specific threats against Brown for testifying, they did know about comments online calling him a "snitch" and saying he was cooperating with the state.



*No suspect*


The Dallas Police Department hasn't identified a suspect publicly in Brown's death and does not yet have a motive, according to a statement released Sunday by police chief Renee Hall.

Witnesses told police they saw a silver, four-door sedan leaving the parking lot at a high rate of speed following the shooting and police have asked the public to come forward with information on the case.

Mayor Eric Johnson said in a tweet Sunday that the department would "conduct a thorough investigation into the death of Joshua Brown," and urged people to not speculate about the case before the investigation is completed.

Other officials shared his sentiment Sunday. Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins, who is not a court judge, but is head of the county commissioners said in a tweet Saturday that he shared "the community's profound sense of shock and anger over this evil murder." He said the county and city would "work to ensure a transparent and thorough investigation," adding that career professionals were hard at work on the case and should be extended "grace."_


----------



## Crackers Phinn

I’ve been holding my tongue about Joshua Brown but I strongly suspected somebody who been looking for him caught up after seeing him on tv.  

Is it possible that the police pointed that person in the right direction? Yes.  But cops didn’t do a drive by on a witness days after a controversial court case.


----------



## Laela

We can only speculate until the truth cones out. But I wouldn't  rule out the Po- Po being involved in this shooting in some way, with a young black male set to take the fall for doing their dirty work..wouldn't surprise me one bit.


----------



## Reinventing21

@Crackers Phinn 
Unfortunately,  I too held back and was hoping it would not turn into this kind of case as I was hoping for the best for his family. Although I did not watch him in the trial, I did notice in the picture of him in court that he had a lot of tats.  I did not want to jump to the conclusion of gang related violence.... but...I did wonder that if it was not a police related retaliation, then who else?


----------



## Jmartjrmd

Crackers Phinn said:


> I’ve been holding my tongue about Joshua Brown but I strongly suspected somebody who been looking for him caught up after seeing him on tv.
> 
> Is it possible that the police pointed that person in the right direction? Yes.  But cops didn’t do a drive by on a witness days after a controversial court case.


Right..

there has been no reliable info coming out in this case yet.  Family always says they have no known enemies.

There is even conflicting info as to where he was shot.  Attorney Merritt should stop making some many factual statements when he doesnt yet know himself.

Still I hate it for this young man.  by all accounts from his old teammates and friends he seemed like a good person who didn't need to succumb to this type of violence.


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## Crackers Phinn

Reinventing21 said:


> @Crackers Phinn
> Unfortunately,  I too held back and was hoping it would not turn into this kind of case as I was hoping for the best for his family. Although I did not watch him in the trial, I did notice in the picture of him in court that he had a lot of tats.  I did not want to jump to the conclusion of gang related violence.... but...I* did wonder that if it was not a police related retaliation, then who else*?





Jmartjrmd said:


> Right..
> 
> there has been no reliable info coming out in this case yet.  *Family always says they have no known enemies.*
> 
> There is even conflicting info as to where he was shot.  Attorney Merritt should stop making some many factual statements when he doesnt yet know himself.
> 
> Still I hate it for this young man.  by all accounts from his old teammates and friends he seemed like a good person who didn't need to succumb to this type of violence.


The "no known enemies" statement is what set off bells in my head.  That statement is straight out the "no snitching but we know/suspect who did it" handbook.    Considering that dude was injured in a shooting a year ago, that's a pretty good indication that somebody out there might not like him just a little bit.

Again, I'm not saying the police are above doing dirt.  They obviously do dirt. But they don't usually do dirt this sloppily when there's a spot light on them.


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## Laela

Do you think the Dallas PD isn't aware of the first shooting of Joshua?


Jmartjrmd said:


> Right..
> 
> there has been no reliable info coming out in this case yet.  Family always says they have no known enemies.
> 
> There is even conflicting info as to where he was shot.  Attorney Merritt should stop making some many factual statements when he doesnt yet know himself.
> 
> Still I hate it for this young man.  by all accounts from his old teammates and friends he seemed like a good person who didn't need to succumb to this type of violence.


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## Reinventing21

Why couldn't he have been a protected witness? Did he ever say let anyone know why he did not want to testify?


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## TrulyBlessed

Reinventing21 said:


> Why couldn't he have been a protected witness? Did he ever say let anyone know why he did not want to testify?



Well according to Judge Tammy even she’s surprised he showed up. Now why is that?Everything about this is pure evil!


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## ScorpioBeauty09

I've stayed away from this story because I don't have anything positive to say and it's not for me to tell someone else how to grieve, despite my opinions. This story just reeks of tragedy and shows how toxic this country is for black people.


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## Jmartjrmd

Judge Tammy regarding the hug


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## ThirdEyeBeauty

Poor Mr. Brown.  He did not want to show up to testify.   I wonder if there will be any _display_ of compassion for this man and his family.  

He must have an interesting criminal record for the judge to react the way she did about him showing up.  He burned some bridges somewhere or owed something for someone. 

I'm looking forward to the comparisons.


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## Dposh167

my blood is still boiling over these hugs. I watched all these news videos on it and now Youtube keeps suggesting more. Everytime I login there's a new thumbnail video of the hug and I get mad all over again lol


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## TrulyBlessed

*Joshua Brown, the slain Amber Guyger trial witness, was killed in a drug deal gone wrong, police say*

*(CNN) — *Joshua Brown, a key witness in the murder trial of a former Dallas police officer convicted of the shooting their neighbor in his own apartment, was shot and killed during a drug deal gone wrong, Assistant Chief Avery Moore said.
Brown was killed after an argument with one of three men from Louisiana who had met him in Dallas for a drug purchase, Moore told reporters.

A conversation between Brown and Thaddeus Green, 22, escalated into a physical altercation in which Brown allegedly shot and wounded Jacquerious Mitchell, 20, according to Moore. Green then shot Brown twice, police said. Green took a backpack from Brown as well as the gun used to wound Mitchell.

After receiving tips, police obtained a search warrant and recovered 12 pounds of marijuana, 143 grams of THC cartridges, and $4,000 in cash from Brown's apartment.

"As you know, there's been speculation and rumors that have been shared by community leaders claiming that Mr. Brown's death was related to the Amber Guyger trial, and somehow the Dallas Police Department was responsible," Moore said.

"As you know, there's been speculation and rumors that have been shared by community leaders claiming that Mr. Brown's death was related to the Amber Guyger trial, and somehow the Dallas Police Department was responsible," Moore said.

"I assure you that is simply not true. And I encourage those leaders to be mindful of their actions moving forward because their words have jeopardized the integrity of the city of Dallas as well as the Dallas Police Department."

Police have obtained arrests warrants for the three men, including Michael Diaz Mitchell, 32, who was driving the car, Moore said. Only Mitchell is in custody. He's expected to be charged with capital murder.

Brown, 28, was fatally shot Friday at his home in the Atera Apartments, about five miles from his former complex where he, former officer Amber Guyger and their neighbor Botham Jean lived.

Brown teared up as he testified last month in Guyger's murder trial.
After Brown was killed Friday, witnesses told police they saw a silver, four-door sedan speed from the parking lot after the shooting, and police had asked the public to come forward with information on the case.

Almost a year before he testified at Guyger's trial, Brown was wounded in a shooting at a Dallas strip club that left another man dead, police said.

Brown believed he was the target in that November 23 shooting and felt there were "still people out there who wanted to do him harm," said attorney S. Lee Merritt, who represents Brown's family.

Merritt on Tuesday called for Dallas police to recuse themselves from the investigation into Brown's shooting.

Several presidential hopefuls have urged authorities to solve the case. Merritt has called for an independent investigation into the killing, acknowledging that speculation has begun to spread. He said it "doesn't mean there's evidence" of police involvement or connection to the Guyger case.

The NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Inc. (LDF) also requested an investigation into Brown's death.

Jean was shot and killed by Guyger on September 6, 2018. On November 23, Brown was shot at a strip club, Dallas Cabaret South, according to a police blotter item. A full police report on that shooting was not immediately available.

Citing an affidavit, the Dallas Morning News reported that a man had waited for Brown outside the club and the two fought. The man started shooting when Brown tried to leave, wounding his foot, the newspaper reported. Nicholas Shaq'uan Diggs, 26, was killed.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/us/joshua-brown-shooting-tuesday/index.html


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## Crackers Phinn

Yeah, as much as I believe a drug deal gone wrong is possible, I still want an independent law enforcement office to have a looksy cuz I don't trust Dallas PD.

What this story is telling me is that Joshua Brown was a drug dealer who actually gave the police a statement about a murder.   What's odd about that is that drug dealers usually don't like talking to the police for any reason.


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## naturalgyrl5199

I don't believe it. Sorry. This is damage control.


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## ScorpioBeauty09

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> I don't believe it. Sorry. This is damage control.


Exactly my thoughts. It's infuriating too because this man will not get the same sympathy Amber Guyer did--a convicted murderer. This country is really sick sometimes.


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## Reinventing21

Can someone please share what Judge Tammy said about the hug, please? I think my blood pressure may go through the roof if I watch the video, lol, not lol.


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## TrulyBlessed




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## Kanky

TrulyBlessed said:


> "I assure you that is simply not true. And I encourage those leaders to be mindful of their actions moving forward because their words have jeopardized the integrity of the city of Dallas as well as the Dallas Police Department."


 Cops murdering people in their own apartments and having other cops testify that it was justified “jeopardized the integrity of the Dallas Police Department”.

As far as I am concerned they are all murderers. And the weed thing is just lazy. They could’ve at least sprinkled some crack on him.


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## Kanky

I wonder how the witness’s death will effect any appeals.


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## Jmartjrmd

I don't trust the PD either however all we knew about Joshua was the brief moments he was on the stand.  He did not want to testify but was threatened with arrest had he not.  I mean we know he smoked weed...he admitted he and Bothom smoked together the day Bothom was murdered.  So him having weed isn't far fetched.  

I hope his family finds peace that those responsible are identified and hopefully all will be in custody soon.


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## FelaShrine

Driving from Louisana to Dallas over some weed, only a moron would fall for that bs. They would have been better off sprinkling crack rocks on his body. Pathetic. where is the FBI for all this


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## FelaShrine

Jmartjrmd said:


> I don't trust the PD either however all we knew about Joshua was the brief moments he was on the stand.  He did not want to testify but was threatened with arrest had he not.  I mean we know he smoked weed...he admitted he and Bothom smoked together the day Bothom was murdered.  So him having weed isn't far fetched.
> 
> I hope his family finds peace that those responsible are identified and hopefully all will be in custody soon.



smoking weed doesnt suddenly make you a weed dealer.  No bg time dealer is going to put themsleves on the stand exposing their lives especially when speaking against a cop. They tried that whole weed bs with Bothom as well so..


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## discodumpling

Theory: Josh Brown was an unwilling sacrifice. All the buffoonery in the courtroom is beginning to make sense. Bothams Mamas speech makes sense. The hugging of the murderer makes sense. They knew what was coming and possibly what is to come. They were trying to get a head of it. 
I am concerned that the violence and get back will reach St. Lucia. There is no telling the limits of the corruption!


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## Evolving78

Amber was messing with Jean? Just putting a conspiracy theory out there.. maybe Brown was going to testify that Amber and Jean had sex and he played her after that.. that’s why that stupid story of her going to the wrong apartment doesn’t make sense.


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## Jmartjrmd

FelaShrine said:


> smoking weed doesnt suddenly make you a weed dealer.  No bg time dealer is going to put themsleves on the stand exposing their lives especially when speaking against a cop. They tried that whole weed bs with Bothom as well so..


I didnt say dealing I said having.  His smoling weed is a known fact.  Also known he didn't want to testify.

But I digress.

My point is all we knew of Joshua was how he came across on the stand.  I didn't know he was shot before, I didn't know he was set to testify in another murder trial.  

I guess I'm  in the minority in that I just do not believe he was murdered by the Dallas PD over his testimony.

What he said was important but  a few other witnesses had the same testimony.   Amber hung herself with her own words.

Doesn't mean I don't feel bad over his murder.

It's getting to wild now.
  Now people making videos asking if black women will stop supporting him because his wife was white.


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## Jmartjrmd

Evolving78 said:


> Amber was messing with Jean? Just putting a conspiracy theory out there.. maybe Brown was going to testify that Amber and Jean had sex and he played her after that.. that’s why that stupid story of her going to the wrong apartment doesn’t make sense.


Joshua said he only met Jean that morning.  His only other encounters with him were hearing him singing in the hallway.


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## Farida

Kanky said:


> I wonder how the witness’s death will effect any appeals.



It won’t.


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## ladysaraii

FelaShrine said:


> Driving from Louisana to Dallas over some weed, only a moron would fall for that bs. They would have been better off sprinkling crack rocks on his body. Pathetic. where is the FBI for all this



Girl!  Like....can y'all at least come up with a plausible story?


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## TrulyBlessed




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## FelaShrine

The fact that this twat couldnt just do her 10 years (5 years tbh) in peace. Hope that coontastic judge is happy with herself.

I also wonder if the father and brother would be willing to hug her now. I know the mother is beside herself smh


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## FelaShrine

and notice how thsi comes out after the key witness is killed


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## Kanky

And this is why I don’t think that anyone should be forgiving her. She hasn’t asked for forgiveness and is fighting back against even admitting guilt and serving a little bit of time. I hope that the next judge gives her more prison time.


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## Farida

FelaShrine said:


> and notice how thsi comes out after the key witness is killed



Actually pretty much everyone files an appeal of a murder conviction. They have deadlines to meet.


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## FelaShrine

If that demon was remorseful she wouldnt file anything. Period.


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## Anacaona

FelaShrine said:


> The fact that this twat couldnt just do her 10 years (5 years tbh) in peace. Hope that coontastic judge is happy with herself.
> 
> I also wonder if the father and brother would be willing to hug her now. I know the mother is beside herself smh



Welp, the brother will get what he hoped for (no jail time for her), so will the judge (redemption), and Botham's dad will get his chance to befriend her.


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## Jmartjrmd

Farida said:


> Actually pretty much everyone files an appeal of a murder conviction. They have deadlines to meet.


Exactly.  She was going to file this appeal regardless.
The key witness for her conviction was her own self.
If Joshua was all they had she'd be walking free anyways.  His testimony was important but there was another few witnesses who essentially said the same thing that he did.


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## FelaShrine

Anacaona said:


> Welp, the brother will get what he hoped for (no jail time for her), so will the judge (redemption), and Botham's dad will get his chance to befriend her.



Happily ever after


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## Farida

Welp...huge blow for their civil suit:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/dallas-dismissed-lawsuit-over-police-011224880.html


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## Everything Zen

^^^ I would think the city wouldn’t be liable bc she was off duty right?


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## Transformer

Everything Zen said:


> ^^^ I would think the city wouldn’t be liable bc she was off duty right?



I agree with this opinion.
“Appeal that decision. Had she intervened in a robbery or some other crime I'm sure the Dallas police department would have taken credit for her actions. She was in full uniform, clearly recognizable as a Dallas police officer.”


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## Farida

Everything Zen said:


> ^^^ I would think the city wouldn’t be liable bc she was off duty right?


I haven’t had a chance to read the actual legal opinion but that’s my guess that’s what the city is arguing. My guess was they probably also argued that her actions weren’t even in line with what her training said to do a situation like that so she was acting as a civilian.

My guess is the family will counter with saying she was still wearing her uniform, used her service weapon and her whole testimony was saying that she used her police training to respond to the situation.


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## TrulyBlessed




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## BonBon

Wouldnt be surprised if the victim's fam volunteers to support her appeal in some way.


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