# Have You Ever Spoken In Tongues?



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 18, 2009)

This issue has come up several times in this forum.  There are those who believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of "saved" status ....evidence of being a christian.  There are those who believe it's essential to the christian walk and even those who believe that it's evidence that the person has entered into a relationship with Jesus.  What are your thoughts on this?  Have you ever spoken in tongues and do you believe that those who have never spoken in tongues are hell-bound?


Disclaimer and Posting Etiquette:
These threads have generally become very heated...ahem, I was guilty of such before.  I do not wish for flaming in this one.  Just honest opinion and OPEN discussion.  Bare your thoughts on this and please provide scripture for those of us scripturally impaired.


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## Ramya (Jun 18, 2009)

I began to speak with other tongues when I was baptized with the Holy Spirit. I believe that it's essential to the believer. I do not believe that it gets you into heaven or hell. I pray in tongues daily.


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## TrustMeLove (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm deleting my post. This forum isn't really welcoming to this type of subject...IMO. Usually turns out all bad. I rather not be a part of it...it can flourish w/o my input.


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## varaneka (Jun 18, 2009)

I think that speaking in tongues is a special gift that God alone chooses to give. I also believe that not every Christian necessarily is going to be given that gift. I haven't spoken in tongues, but I've been baptised. I believe that that is one of the requirements because it says that we are to be reborn of water and spirit, but I don't think that the baptism is solely water rebirth. I believe that baptism is both spiritual and water rebirth!


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## varaneka (Jun 18, 2009)

btw I'm non-denominational Christian!


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 18, 2009)

Ramya said:


> I began to speak with other tongues when I was baptized with the Holy Spirit. I believe that it's essential to the believer. I do not believe that it gets you into heaven or hell. I pray in tongues daily.




As edification of the believer or to make the person validly a believer?


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## Ramya (Jun 18, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> As edification of the believer or to make the person validly a believer?



*sigh* nevermind.


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## BeautifulFlower (Jun 18, 2009)

*Love is the evidence of salvation. *

Not tongue or anything else. Tongues is a manifestation of the holy spirit but it is only one of many.... prophesy, teaching, giving, service, etc....

No where in the bible does it say tongues is essential to being a believer.

Walking out now.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

Yikes, can't wait to see what people say about this... 
In the bible God's servants and prophets spoke in tongues... like different languages...
Tongues didn't mean saying gibberish in the bible, it meant they could understand different languages...
They also said it was a gift, just like those leaders of the UN are gifted because they can speak 10 languages
I personally know I'm going to heaven regardless of if I stand up in church and start shouting things that don't make sense...
I am scared when people speak in tongues... I think it should be done in the house where nobody can see you... I understand wanting to open your mouth and "cry out" to Jesus and not knowing what to say, but all that really causes a spectacle
And I dare someone to tell me I'm not saved because I don't garble and let my eyes roll back in my head... LOL.
Being saved is not something for us to decide, its only for Christ to determine, which makes me really happy cuz we would all be doomed if some people I know picked who got into heaven LOL
But its not my business to tell you what to do in your own home... I just think all that acting out is showing off sometimes, kinda like when you yell at your spouse at a company dinner... but thats just me, do you...
just don't be mad when I run in the other direction LOL


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## TrustMeLove (Jun 18, 2009)

OOo lawd!


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

um ayannah thats creepy i didnt even know u posted right before me... text me back ho


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## TrustMeLove (Jun 18, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> um ayannah thats creepy i didnt even know u posted right before me... text me back ho



HUH?


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## Ramya (Jun 18, 2009)

Nevermind. I'm done. I hope it gets cleared up for those who would like it to be.


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## BeautifulFlower (Jun 18, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> um ayannah thats creepy i didnt even know u posted right before me... text me back ho


 

I did already...you didnt get it yet???


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 18, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> OOo lawd!



Your post was good...I just wish you hadn't backed out.  Surprisingly, only 4 have taken the poll.  That's why I put in the disclaimer.  I think that with rules established, nothing bad will happen.  I just want people to talk about it...to each other rather than 'at' each other.  It's important to know and discuss....but, oh well.  But know, your post was nicely put.

Oh, and btw y'all, it's anonymous.  Opinions are king...so let everyone wear their crown.


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## msa (Jun 18, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> This issue has come up several times in this forum.  There are those who believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of "saved" status ....evidence of being a christian.  There are those who believe it's essential to the christian walk and even those who believe that it's evidence that the person has entered into a relationship with Jesus.  What are your thoughts on this?




My church believes that:
1. Speaking in tongues is evidence of the Holy Spirit and is part of being saved. You must be baptized in the name and you must also speak in tongues and you must also live according to the Bible.

2. Everyone who has the Holy Spirit is able to speak in tongues and has their own personal "Spirit" (for lack of a better term) language. 

3. There is a difference between regular speaking in tongues and speaking/interpreting tongues that is one of the "Gifts of the Spirit".



GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Have you ever spoken in tongues and do you believe that those who have never spoken in tongues are hell-bound?



I have spoken in tongues. But, I have read way too much about the ability of the human mind to convince themselves of things and how that manifests in our actions. So, until I'm absolutely 1000% sure that speaking in tongues is coming from the Holy Spirit and not *my mind *I choose not to do it.

My church does believe that without baptism and being filled with the holy spirit a person is not "saved" and is therefore not meeting the minimum requirements for entrance into heaven so to speak. My personal view on that is it's between the individual and God whether they are saved or not and therefore I don't believe that if everything else is in order and the person hasn't spoken in tongues then they'll go to hell.


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## Raspberry (Jun 18, 2009)

I started speaking in tongues about a year ago.  No, I don't believe it's required for salvation.  Speaking in tongues builds up your spirit in a unique way and declares the will of God when we don't know what to say.  



TrustMeLove said:


> I'm deleting my post. This forum isn't really welcoming to this type of subject...IMO. Usually turns out all bad. I rather not be a part of it...it can flourish w/o my input.



I agree.. I would love to be able to talk about the stronger moves of the spirit but people can get very sensitive.

I understand somewhat because I grew up in a Pentecostal church that didnt' always use the gifts according to the biblical model.  As a teenager I often felt intimidated and sad because I felt like something was wrong with me for not acting out like others in my church did.  I also got turned off from people touching me and expecting some kind of emotional performance... 

However, over the past couple years I've been under very sound biblical teaching and strong balanced Christians who have helped me change my mind and embrace, not fear moves of the spirit.  I don't care anymore how some church folk have twisted things, I want everything God has for me.


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## msa (Jun 18, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> Yikes, can't wait to see what people say about this...
> In the bible God's servants and prophets spoke in tongues... like different languages...
> *Tongues didn't mean saying gibberish* in the bible, it meant they could understand different languages...
> They also said it was a gift, just like those leaders of the UN are gifted because they can speak 10 languages
> ...




The red really jumped out at me. 

I think your characterization of speaking in tongues comes from a place of fear and a lack of understanding. And, when people are fearful of something they usually regard it and speak about it negatively, just as you have here.

I really think that you should take some time and research it or ask members of your congregation and your pastor about speaking in tongues if it is done there. You shouldn't be fearful of anything that your church supports.

Also, when posting in the Christianity Forum it is really important to think about your tone. I know I'm like the last person to say this but in order for us to have a dialogue where everyone can learn and grow it takes love and a sincere effort if avoid offensive statements/speech/attitudes. Please be careful of how you say things and what you say because I can see how many people would take offense to your statements and it would really sidetrack the discussion.


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## Raspberry (Jun 18, 2009)

msa said:


> I have spoken in tongues. But, I have read way too much about the ability of the human mind to convince themselves of things and how that manifests in our actions. So, until I'm absolutely 1000% sure that speaking in tongues is coming from the Holy Spirit and not *my mind *I choose not to do it.



I understand what you're saying but I would still encourage you to speak what you hear in your spirit by faith...  We must remember that without faith it is impossible to please God.   You cannot rely on your mind to convince you of spiritual things - they are only known through your inner man (spirit).  Your mind wants to hold on to what it can see and understand through human logic - speaking in tongues is not logical.  

God speaks to many people in obvious ways who end up doubting goodness or his very presence. The children of Isreal had God smacking them in the face with miracles but they still doubted His goodness and provision.  There have been times God has spoken to me and given me visions and I have later doubted his love or agency in my life.  The He stopped speaking to me (in obvious ways) altogether and I realized that I was always expecting Him to prove himself  but His word states that the just will live by faith.  He expects us to draw near first before he will draw near to us.  

Just know that God will reward your faith and manifest himself more to you - but you have to take that leap.


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## cherepikr (Jun 18, 2009)

I have never spoken in tongues.  As a child, I did belong to a church that believed speaking in tongues was necessary.  

I believe it is a gift that I just don't possess, but I know that I have salvation.


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## Nonie (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm with PrettyfaceANB. Speaking in tongues is a gift and gifts are given according to the will of the Giver. Not everyone will receive the gift of speaking in tongues but that doesn't make their salvation any less than the other.



> We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? *This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.*


Hebrews 2:3-4



> 4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
> 
> 7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues 11*All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines*.


1 Corinthians 12:7-11


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 18, 2009)

msa said:


> The red really jumped out at me.
> 
> I think your characterization of speaking in tongues comes from a place of fear and a lack of understanding. And, when people are fearful of something they usually regard it and speak about it negatively, just as you have here.
> 
> ...



I personally am very frightened in the company of people speaking in tongues and dancing around... in the spirit .  Emotional experiences where they weep and cry out, dancing.  I dunno, it kinda freaks me out.  They seem edified and at peace though, which is kewl and important...no one being harmed.  I just don't prefer to have anything to do with it because I do not comprehend it.  I have to think that they are probably just as freaked out about my religious/spiritual experiences of another genre.  

It could have something to do with the stare-factor.  I remember one pentecostal one where people were shouting and glossalia was occuring.  I looked at some of the people (probably with this face cuz it was getting hot  lol) ...looked around and saw some folks spying me like, "poor girl, she ain't saved yet."  LOL.  Well, they _were_ entitled to their opinions and I certainly was a guest at _their_ church.  Maybe that's  what she's talking about, the looking around at those who aren't joined in?  Eh, but that was my own personal experience.


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## Raspberry (Jun 18, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I personally am very frightened in the company of people speaking in tongues and dancing around... in the spirit .  Emotional experiences where they weep and cry out, dancing.  I dunno, it kinda freaks me out.  They seem edified and at peace though, which is kewl and important...no one being harmed.  I just don't prefer to have anything to do with it because I do not comprehend it.  I have to think that they are probably just as freaked out about my religious/spiritual experiences of another genre.
> 
> It could have something to do with the stare-factor.  I remember one pentecostal one where people were shouting and glossalia was occuring.  I looked at some of the people (probably with this face cuz it was getting hot  lol) ...looked around and saw some folks spying me like, "poor girl, she ain't saved yet."  LOL.  Well, they _were_ entitled to their opinions and I certainly was a guest at _their_ church.  Maybe that's  what she's talking about, the looking around at those who aren't joined in?  Eh, but that was my own personal experience.



Paul taught in the Bible that the gifts being used in a congregation setting should be done decently and in order.  He stated that folks shouldn't speak loudly in tongues in a group setting if an interpretation is not given because people don't understand what you're saying and the interpretation is a sign to unbelievers.  I do think of his teachings sometimes because it's true that some churches seem to let anything go down during a service - I believe that early church services probably operated a lot differently in the gifts than what goes on today.  

*1 Corinthians 14:26-28*
_ 26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God._

Everything done in church should be for the edifying of the body as a whole.. so I can see where some folks see extreme emotionalism as self-serving, because it doesn't minister to anyone but that person.  I try not to judge tho because it also serves no purpose for me to focus on how someone else worships.


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## msa (Jun 18, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I personally am very frightened in the company of people speaking in tongues and dancing around... in the spirit .  Emotional experiences where they weep and cry out, dancing.  I dunno, it kinda freaks me out.  They seem edified and at peace though, which is kewl and important...no one being harmed.  I just don't prefer to have anything to do with it because I do not comprehend it.  I have to think that they are probably just as freaked out about my religious/spiritual experiences of another genre.
> 
> It could have something to do with the stare-factor.  I remember one pentecostal one where people were shouting and glossalia was occuring.  I looked at some of the people (probably with this face cuz it was getting hot  lol) ...looked around and saw some folks spying me like, "poor girl, she ain't saved yet."  LOL.  Well, they _were_ entitled to their opinions and I certainly was a guest at _their_ church.  Maybe that's  what she's talking about, the looking around at those who aren't joined in?  Eh, but that was my own personal experience.




I can totally understand being freaked out or scared by it. Especially if it's your first time seeing it.

I began attending my church when I was 13 and before then had never attended a church that was spirit filled. Believe me, I was definitely uncomfortable to say the least. And nobody at my church "shows out"...very rarely do you have someone falling out or running around or being extra loud. 

I also understand that all the utterances I may hear are not necessarily from the Holy Spirit. Just like with everything else, there are a lot of church folk frontin' about being spirit filled. At my church I don't think it happens as often because my Pastor is very very serious about that he'd rather you be silent or just sing/pray in English than pretend to be speaking in tongues. But I've definitely seen it elsewhere.

Anyway, if you don't understand and are fearful because of that, then get understanding. IMO, it's nothing to be fearful of. The study of glossolalia is really interesting to me personally. I found this quote at this website.




> Newberg gave the Pentecostals an intravenous injection of a radioactive      tracer that allowed him to measure blood flow and "see" which brain areas      were most active during the behaviors. Newberg and his associates published      their findings in the November 2006 issue of _Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging_.      During glossolalia, the part of the brain than normally makes a person feel      in control was essentially shut down. The findings make sense, says Newberg,*      because speaking in tongues involves giving up control and feeling a "very      intense experience of how the self relates to God*."*




The bold really resonates with me and what you said about people seeming to be at peace. When the Holy Spirit moves around me and in me, it is a very serene feeling. Other people speak in tongues as, but that's not my reaction to it. I'm more of a crier and a singer. To me it is just a part of how I relate to God.​


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## Nonie (Jun 18, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I, your experience is precisely what Paul was talking about. That speaking in tongues doesn't help anyone except the one that is speaking in tongues and it useful to others only if others can interpret and share what is being said. (_"5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

 6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church."_ 1 Cor 14:4-12)

It's sad you felt judged and looked down upon coz you were not speaking in tongues. I think that's why Paul interjected the chapter about love in the middle of this talk about gifts coz love protects and isn't proud and it's greater than all. We are told that salvation is a gift so no one should boast, and so by the same token, so is speaking in tongue. Not that anyone here is boasting but those who would look down on one who doesn't speak in tongues as if they are more worthy because they do obviously does not understand the concept of gifts.

Incidentally, do you know Satan can speak in tongues? Not to scare anyone but I attended a rally where a former satanist shared the story of her life as a member of the coven and one of the things they did was go to charismatic churches and start cursing God in tongues beside someone praying in tongues. Because the one praying didn't know what they were saying, they'd confuse them and have them chanting the same thing. Not sure how true that is or how possible it is to do that, but if some churches actually push you to do it, by telling you to start mumbling things (as someone shared) what would stop Satan from taking over and giving you the things to say--after all, you do not know what you're saying.

Anyway, there is a lot of stuff about speaking in tongues on the Internet. I just found one which I will read later prayerfully. I think people should do the same. If it were God's will for all to speak in tongues, I don't think there'd be any question about it or any confusion about it. As far as I am concerned it is as clear as can be that not everyone is supposed to.


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## mamaore (Jun 18, 2009)

I am new here, so havent been privy to other threads on this subject.

First of all, I encourage us all to always pray the pauline prayers in Ehpesians 1:17-20 3:14-19. There is another one in Colossians.
When I dont understand something, I always pray this prayers for myself and I as I read the bible, study and research other materials, my spirit becomes enlightened to receive more rhema from his word on the given subject. 

Always remember we know in part, God has so much for us, that our spirit has not grasped yet, scriptures says the carnal mind cannot understand the things of the spirit as they are foolishness to him. 
We can never understand tongues or the gift of tongues with our minds, only with our spirit.

The spirit of a man knows what are his thoughts, so the spirit of God knows the fullness of God for us.
Salvation: Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and God raised him from the dead. For further clarification Read Romans chapter 10. espcially verses 9-11.

When we are saved we have a measure of the holy spirit. How ever the infilling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is an overflowing in abundance.

Tongues is an added bonus to salvation, just like healing or prosperity, or other gifts of the spirits is an added bonus.

There are many advantages to speaking in tongues - First is prayer; we do not always know how we ought to pray or what we ought to pray for, but the spirit helps us in our infirmities with groanings wihich cannot be uttered (dont remember where that is). 

Paul said I will pray with my understanding and I will pray in the spirit. When we pray in tongues, you are always praying the will of God for your life, stuff your mind has not yet fanthomed or cannot yet bear. 

The gift of tongues is another level and is a gift of the spirit like prophecy.

I hope I have helped someone with this.


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## mamaore (Jun 18, 2009)

Nonie said:


> * As far as I am concerned it is as clear as can be that not everyone is supposed to*.


 
Based on this premise, then not everyone is supposed to be saved. However, God said he desires that all come to repentance and be saved.

On the issue of not knowing what you are saying, If you have the gift of interpretation you will know. However, Abraham did not consider his body but believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

Without Faith is impossible to please God cause, we are moved by the word, not what we hear or see.

This is the same with salvation, I dont feel saved all the time, but I know in my knower that I am saved no matter what I feel. That's the only way to relate with God.
Jesus could note do anything in that village(cant rememebr the village, its somewhere in the gospels) because of their unbelief.

The only reason why there is confusion about so many stuff, like tongues, revelation & power gifts, vision, healing is because the devil wants to rob people of their all rounded victory in Christ. A lot of times we have victory in an area of our lives and are still defeated in another.

There is a power at work in us, the same power that raised Christ from the dead.. oh my one day I am going to fully grasp the meaning of that. And I am going to run that old bugger off in every arena of my life.

I want all that God has for me, even when my head finds it difficult to believe, but I am working on it.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

msa said:


> The red really jumped out at me.
> 
> I think your characterization of speaking in tongues comes from a place of fear and a lack of understanding. And, when people are fearful of something they usually regard it and speak about it negatively, just as you have here.
> 
> ...



I understand completely what it means, and I have seen it several times...
People make a spectacle of themselves trying to make others believe that they are more saved than the others...
And at my church, my pastor speaks the word. We walk in, sing, hear announcement, he preaches, he holds invitation for people to accept Christ in their life, and then he leaves. 
I believe that he spoke once about tongues but I won't say what I think he says because I don't want to misquote him...
But I know for a fact, as do many of the other believers, from the bible, that God gave people the gift for a reason... Today... What for? God listens to prayers in english, spanish, german, patois, whatever you want lol. So why do the gibberish in public? And how could that be a higher level if His death and resurrection ripped the temple curtains and took away the veil? We can come to the throne on the same level as everyone else, nowhere in the bible does it say another believer can reach God on a higher level than another... and please correct me and show me the verse if I'm wrong, because I have been before...
I have studied this over and over again, many discussions, etc.
I have never come across someone that can say with confidence, that speaking in tongues in public makes sense... imagine how the visitors feel when they see it?
And I work at my church I know what it takes to make sure that the word and service are presented in a manner that represents Christ in a way that will keep people open to the word, and keep them coming back.
*SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS SCARY!!!!! COME ON!!! WHATS NORMAL ABOUT IT!!!!*
*I'm not saying its wrong but you can't tell me that if you saw it today for the first time as an adult and you would think that it was just regular... or a gift LOL.* NOT A CHANCE... If anyone can say that you're not bein real LOL  At least I am honest and I say what it is LOL
 Trust me, I've talked to some people that saw it for the first time, 2 of which were believers. And they all said it was scary. And the believers knew the reason too. I don't think its about fear and misunderstanding, I think its about it being scary LOL.
And about my tone... we're in cyberspace... its ok to laugh if its sarcastic...
I hope nobody is offended because... we're in cyberspace
The only way that you can be offended is if you choose to be offended, you can only respond to your perception, which is why I keep letting some of these ladies say whatever they want to me without gettin smart.
Theres no point in getting offended, just look at the words and take it with a grain of salt
you can't see facial expressions, hand motions, anything... so why not think the person just has a sense of humor, or maybe just talk about it... I mean we are in the Christian forum...


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> It could have something to do with the stare-factor.  I remember one pentecostal one where people were shouting and glossalia was occuring.  I looked at some of the people (probably with this face cuz it was getting hot  lol) ...looked around and saw some folks spying me like, "poor girl, she ain't saved yet."  LOL.



Thats what I like to see, a little transparency... its just scary! Imagine if she wasn't a Christian lol. She might never go back to church... I wouldn't! (not tryin to speak for you just sayin might never... maybe you would...)


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## Nonie (Jun 18, 2009)

mamaore said:


> *Based on this premise, then not everyone is supposed to be saved. However, God said he desires that all come to repentance and be saved.*



Actually, that's not at all related. My statement that not all must speak in tongues is taken from Paul's message to the Corinthians. He clearly explained that speaking in tongues is one of the gifts of the Spirit and because the Body of Christ is made of many parts, different parts are given different gifts...so that not one gift should be emphasized above the rest. That has nothing to do with salvation. Nowhere in the bible does it say that being saved and speaking in tongues are one and the same thing. So my saying not everyone is supposed to speak in tongues is in accordance to the scripture I have quoted which talks about gifts and doesn't at all mention salvation or have anything to do with it. Hebrews even talks of gifts being given as God chooses. So how can speaking in tongues be for all when it isn't the only gift?


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## blazingthru (Jun 18, 2009)

When I read the bible I understood speaking in tongues is just speaking spanish or french or chinese or so on.  *Its not *speaking some language that no one knows but you and the holy spirit. The gifts of tongues is being able to master different languages.  This is not my gift. I cannot learn languages quickly but there are many on this board who can speak two or three or more languages thats speaking in tongues.  Tongues is just another word for language. Also your not to speak in this language in front of the church or groups of people if no one is there to interpret its pointless and serves no one. You can pray in whatever language you want when your alone speaking to God.  No offense to anyone on this board, no condemnation but we really need to examine what we read and make sure we completely understand it. When I read in Acts at Pentacost when the disciples recieved the holy spirit they began speaking in tongues but all the people from all over outside of the building---- each heard in their own language. it served a purpose but there is no other time it happen as such but the disciples had their own gifts some could actually speak another language as their gifts after receiving the holy spirit, some had healing and various other gifts.


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## msa (Jun 18, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> I understand completely what it means, and I have seen it several times...
> *People make a spectacle of themselves trying to make others believe that they are more saved than the others..*.
> And at my church, my pastor speaks the word. We walk in, sing, hear announcement, he preaches, he holds invitation for people to accept Christ in their life, and then he leaves.
> I believe that he spoke once about tongues but I won't say what I think he says because I don't want to misquote him...
> But I know for a fact, as do many of the other believers, from the bible, that God gave people the gift for a reason... Today... What for? God listens to prayers in english, spanish, german, patois, whatever you want lol.* So why do the gibberish in public?*



1. While you may assume that people are making "a spectacle of themselves trying to make others believe they are more saved than others" it does not make it true. Some people believe that it is a requirement for being saved in the first place. Everyone is not speaking in tongues to look better than someone else, you are just assuming so. 

2. I think it's unfair to refer to it as gibberish but if that's how you feel so be it. You obviously have a different belief than others do about speaking in tongues. Since you don't believe it serves a purpose or is necessary for a believer, that's fine, but try not to speak about it so condescendingly. We are all here trying to learn from one another and we're all Christians. At the very least we should be tolerant towards each other, if no one else.



music-bnatural-smile said:


> *And how could that be a higher level if His death and resurrection ripped the temple curtains and took away the veil?* We can come to the throne on the same level as everyone else, nowhere in the bible does it say another believer can reach God on a higher level than another... and please correct me and show me the verse if I'm wrong, because I have been before...
> I have studied this over and over again, many discussions, etc.
> *I have never come across someone that can say with confidence, that speaking in tongues in public makes sense*



1. I don't recall anyone saying anything about it being a "higher level". There are no levels in Christianity, either you are saved or you're not. We don't all agree on how to be saved though. But, it's the humans that add the hierarchy to the religion, not God. Speaking in tongues does not put anyone on a "higher level" than anyone else.

2. That's fine if you don't believe the arguments for speaking in tongues. You have your own beliefs. All I'm saying is try to be respectful of others.




music-bnatural-smile said:


> And I work at my church I know what it takes to make sure that the word and service are presented in a manner that represents Christ in a way that will keep people open to the word, and keep them coming back.
> *SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS SCARY!!!!! COME ON!!! WHATS NORMAL ABOUT IT!!!!*
> *I'm not saying its wrong but you can't tell me that if you saw it today for the first time as an adult and you would think that it was just regular... or a gift LOL.* NOT A CHANCE... If anyone can say that you're not bein real LOL  At least I am honest and I say what it is LOL
> Trust me, I've talked to some people that saw it for the first time, 2 of which were believers. And they all said it was scary. And the believers knew the reason too. I don't think its about fear and misunderstanding, I think its about it being scary LOL.




I agree that seeing it for the *first time* could be scary, uncomfortable, weird, and a whole host of other things. I was just pointing out that if you are *still* scared of it then there's a reason why and perhaps that reason is because you don't fully understand its purpose. 

I also get the feeling that you may have been around some of the more expressive type people. I know in my church, speaking in tongues is done as part of peoples praise and worship, it's an individual thing. It's just like all the other singing, praying, and praising that's going on. And none of that is scary. Granted, we don't have a lot of the screaming, convulsing on the floor, fainting, falling out type stuff going on so maybe that's why it's not scary.


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## BeautifulFlower (Jun 18, 2009)

Nonie said:


> I'm with PrettyfaceANB. Speaking in tongues is a gift and gifts are given according to the will of the Giver. Not everyone will receive the gift of speaking in tongues but that doesn't make their salvation any less than the other.
> 
> Hebrews 2:3-4
> 
> 1 Corinthians 12:7-11


 

Thank you for this post. Tongues is a gift and not everyone gifts it. Just like prophesy, teaching, giving, serving, administration, etc...


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

Msa... my *****...
I would love for everyone to speak their tongues if they like... 
I just don't wanna see it LOL.
At least people that do it aren't killing people or robbing banks... 
I just don't wanna see it LOL.
I am not saying that people that do it aren't preaching the gospel, or that these people aren't saved, or that I'm better or know more than they do... I'm not better than ANYONE... I've done some stupid things in my life...
But when it comes to tongues...
I JUST DONT WANNA SEE IT 
if that aint funny I don't know what is...
i'm just imagining myself fleeing from all of the tongues churches lol
go ahead and smile, its ok


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## blazingthru (Jun 18, 2009)

I did not vote there wasn't an option for me. Oh here is the scripture
The Holy Spirit Comes
 1 On the day of Pentecost[a] all the believers were meeting together in one place. 2 Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting. 3 Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them. 4 And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages,* as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability.
 5 At that time there were devout Jews from every nation living in Jerusalem. 6 When they heard the loud noise, everyone came running, and they were bewildered to hear their own languages being spoken by the believers.

 7 They were completely amazed. “How can this be?” they exclaimed. “These people are all from Galilee, 8 and yet we hear them speaking in our own native languages! 9 Here we are—Parthians, Medes, Elamites, people from Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, the province of Asia, 10 Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, and the areas of Libya around Cyrene, visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism), Cretans, and Arabs. And we all hear these people speaking in our own languages about the wonderful things God has done!” 

This never happens again in the bible where all the disciples are together. We always have to be careful of Satan and his many many lies and tricks. You  must carefully search the scriptures for real truth and not words given by others.  It doesn't matter if your church is doing it or not we have to stand before God on our own convictions and we have no excuse because we have the word of God to read for ourselves.*


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## msa (Jun 18, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> Msa... my *****...
> I would love for everyone to speak their tongues if they like...
> I just don't wanna see it LOL.
> At least people that do it aren't killing people or robbing banks...
> ...



And you shouldn't see it if you don't want to.



blazingthru said:


> You  must carefully search the scriptures for real truth and not words given by others.  It doesn't matter if your church is doing it or not we have to stand before God on our own convictions and we have no excuse because we have the word of God to read for ourselves.



Yup, and everyone has different convictions based on their interpretation of the word. I think that's why the question was asked in the first place because speaking in tongues is one of the things that is debated over and over again and there still isn't one uniform conclusion.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> I understand what you're saying but I would still encourage you to speak what you hear in your spirit by faith...  We must remember that without faith it is impossible to please God.   You cannot rely on your mind to convince you of spiritual things - they are only known through your inner man (spirit).  Your mind wants to hold on to what it can see and understand through human logic - speaking in tongues is not logical.
> 
> God speaks to many people in obvious ways who end up doubting goodness or his very presence. The children of Isreal had God smacking them in the face with miracles but they still doubted His goodness and provision.  There have been times God has spoken to me and given me visions and I have later doubted his love or agency in my life.  The He stopped speaking to me (in obvious ways) altogether and I realized that I was always expecting Him to prove himself  but His word states that the just will live by faith.  He expects us to draw near first before he will draw near to us.
> 
> Just know that God will reward your faith and manifest himself more to you - but you have to take that leap.



God will manifest himself just fine without the tongues LOL
Sike that is a nice post lady, cuz for real, if you wanna talk about visions, I am so sure that he gives us those... That's real...
Has someone ever told yall something in your dreams that helps you within your life?
Or... have you seen something you think nobody else saw? I think that stuff has meaning for real. I mean sometimes minds can play tricks, but sometimes I think that some visions are really sent from God! 
I can't wait to ask him what the truth is when I get to heaven...
about those tongues though... 
sike I'm done messin I know patience for my jokes are wearing thin LOL


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## trenise (Jun 18, 2009)

I do believe in speaking in tongues, and I do from time to time. Not because I just want to, but there is a certain place I get in prayer sometimes where it just happens and sometimes prophecy comes with it. I usually do this in private, just me and God. One time I did with other people present and it was in a language that someone else understood and they translated for me. I don't even remember what it was now, but it did them some good.

I do not believe that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation because I have seen so many people speak in tongues and I was like "I know they aint saved". Yes I guess that was being judgemental. But if you know someone is stepping out on their wife then jumping, and dancing, and speaking in tongues in church, don't you think it must be fake? IDK, I just think too many people fake it for me to say it's evidence of salvation. It's a church requirement for salvation at many churches. I really love the services in those churches, too, but that's not the evidence.


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## SvelteVelvet (Jun 18, 2009)

Yes, I've had a conversation with God in tongues before. And get this...it wasn't in church. I actually question the validity of tongues spoken in church. Most especially when preachers do it in the pulpit. I've never heard my pastor speak in tongues, but I have seen a few people in my church do it to 'prove' their spirituality, I won't say I hate it, but it's a pet peeve of mine since being authentically baptized by the Holy Spirit. I can't even begin to try and repeat the tongues I spoke in, but there are some that seemed to have a 'practiced' tongue. Most especially "Eekadabobo" There was a time when I was in church feeling high in the Spirit and this speaker started with that "Eekadabobo" and the Spirit spoke through me in two syllables and that speaker stopped.


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## Dove56 (Jun 18, 2009)

Of course you don't need to speak in tongues to be saved.  The Bible says if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Christ is Lord then you are saved. So confession and belief are prerequisites for salvation.  A person can't be "filled with Spirit" and  speak in tongues if they haven't confessed. 

The Bible says the Holy Spirit gives different gifts to everyone.  Where is a scripture that explictly states you have to speak in tongues to be saved? It doesn't exist.  Plus tongues are only beneficial when there's an interpreter present. Common sense and READING the Bible are essential.


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## trenise (Jun 18, 2009)

I just thought about this lady who came from a church where tongues was considered evidence of salvation. Her mother had never spoken in tongues but had the fruit of the spirit in abundance. She was so full of love for God and people, but had never spoken in tongues. Her daughter was telling me "How can they tell me my mother isn't saved?" when she lived out the Christian life style.


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## Dove56 (Jun 18, 2009)

trenise said:


> I just thought about this lady who came from a church where tongues was considered evidence of salvation. Her mother had never spoken in tongues but had the fruit of the spirit in abundance. She was so full of love for God and people, but had never spoken in tongues. Her daughter was telling me "How can they tell me my mother isn'y saved?" when she lived out the Christian life style.





People are something else.  Tongues or NO tongues there's no one on earth that could tell me I don't know Jesus because of some tongues.  That's a very judgemental position for a finite human to assume.


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## msa (Jun 18, 2009)

Veejee said:


> Common sense and READING the Bible are essential.




Loads of people with common sense have read the bible and still come to a different conclusion/interpretation that you or others may have.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

Veejee said:


> Of course you don't need to speak in tongues to be saved.  The Bible says if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Christ is Lord then you are saved. So confession and belief are prerequisites for salvation.  A person can't be "filled with Spirit" and  speak in tongues if they haven't confessed.
> 
> The Bible says the Holy Spirit gives different gifts to everyone.  Where is a scripture that explictly states you have to speak in tongues to be saved? It doesn't exist.  Plus tongues are only beneficial when there's an interpreter present. Common sense and READING the Bible are essential.



well said woman... it never says that tongues=saved...
i bet it is fun though


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## SvelteVelvet (Jun 18, 2009)

Edification means to build up. It build up your spiritual relationship with God. Depending on how edified your spirit is, God will actually communicate with you through sparks and that feeling in your ear that feels like someone has waved their hand back and forth to create 'wind'. It is in this way that he gives knowledge and understanding. He will confirm things for you.

This is a spiritual growth thing and I don't believe it measures a persons salvation.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

Veejee said:


> People are something else.  Tongues or NO tongues there's no one on earth that could tell me I don't know Jesus because of some tongues.  That's a very judgemental position for a finite human to assume.



double well said.. i agree 100%


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## aribell (Jun 18, 2009)

No, I have never spoken in tongues.  I do believe in the gift, though.  Could name multiple other profound spiritual experiences and gifts in my life, though.

While I do believe it is a gift and by no means necessary for salvation, I do think my spirit is closed to the phenomenon because of all the different ways I've seen it abused in churches, especially the fact that Paul says that tongues aren't supposed to be spoken in the congregation without an interpreter, which I've never seen happen and only heard of happening once from a friend of mine who also only saw it once. 

This leads me to suspect that the genuine Spirit-led gift of tongues is probably as rare as the gift of interpretation, as people of wholly other faiths also experience "tongues" (glossolalia) as a spiritual experience.  Though I'm sure there are many corners of the Church where such genuine charismatic gifts abound.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

trenise said:


> I do believe in speaking in tongues, and I do from time to time. Not because I just want to, but there is a certain place I get in prayer sometimes where it just happens and sometimes prophecy comes with it. I usually do this in private, just me and God. One time I did with other people present and it was in a language that someone else understood and they translated for me. I don't even remember what it was now, but it did them some good.
> 
> I do not believe that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation because I have seen so many people speak in tongues and I was like "I know they aint saved". Yes I guess that was being judgemental. But if you know someone is stepping out on their wife then jumping, and dancing, and speaking in tongues in church, don't you think it must be fake? IDK, I just think too many people fake it for me to say it's evidence of salvation. It's a church requirement for salvation at many churches. I really love the services in those churches, too, but that's not the evidence.



i feel you on the fake ones... i surely think its fakin about 99% of the time... i don't know what the truth is but the evidence of faking is all over the place LOL. it does suck when good churches have that one weird thing about them. I love mine but everyone there is sooooo perfect... takes away from my wonderful educated pastor speakin the word


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> No, I have never spoken in tongues.  I do believe in the gift, though.  Could name multiple other profound spiritual experiences and gifts in my life, though.
> 
> While I do believe it is a gift and by no means necessary for salvation, I do think my spirit is closed to the phenomenon because of all the different ways I've seen it abused in churches, especially the fact that Paul says that tongues aren't supposed to be spoken in the congregation without an interpreter, which I've never seen happen and only heard of happening once from a friend of mine who also only saw it once.
> 
> This leads me to suspect that the genuine Spirit-led gift of tongues is probably as rare as the gift of interpretation, as people of wholly other faiths also experience "tongues" (glossolalia) as a spiritual experience.  Though I'm sure there are many corners of the Church where such genuine charismatic gifts abound.



I am so glad you said this because I was looking for a gentle way to say this for these ladies to understand, and I really and truly couldnt find it... I'm feeling way too playful right now


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## trenise (Jun 18, 2009)

msa said:


> Loads of people with common sense have read the bible and still come to a different conclusion/interpretation that you or others may have.


 

It's strange but true, that I have never encountered a church whose doctrine believes all the same things I do. I believe in baptizing in Jesus name, but not that tongues is evidence of salvation~but tongues are available to believers as are other gifts. Every church I've seen that baptizes in Jesus name, says you have to speak in tongues to be saved.


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## Dove56 (Jun 18, 2009)

msa said:


> Loads of people with common sense have read the bible and still come to a different conclusion/interpretation that you or others may have.



True, but some scriptures aren't "open to interpretation" like "Thou shalt not steal".  It says what it says. 

•1 Cor. 12:7-11, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another different kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues.  11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." 
•1 Cor. 12:29-30, "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"


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## msa (Jun 18, 2009)

trenise said:


> It's strange but true, that *I have never encountered a church whose doctrine believes all the same things I do.* I believe in baptizing in Jesus name, but not that tongues is evidence of salvation~but tongues are available to believers as are other gifts. Every church I've seen that baptizes in Jesus name, says you have to speak in tongues to be saved.



As far as the bold, neither have I. I don't expect to find a church that believes all the same things I do. I attend my church because it's the best fit for me but I don't agree with everything.



Veejee said:


> True, but some scriptures aren't "open to interpretation" like "Thou shalt not steal".  It says what it says.
> 
> •1 Cor. 12:7-11, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another different kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues.  11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
> •1 Cor. 12:29-30, "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"



And still, there are some who would say based on the original writings  of those scriptures and others that pertain to speaking in tongues that their meanings are different. 

I guess it's not necessarily interpreting the scripture differently that I'm thinking of. It's really that everyone uses different texts and therefore their conclusions are different.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

dang, that was tight veejee


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## Raspberry (Jun 18, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> 7 They were completely amazed. “How can this be?” they exclaimed. “These people are all from Galilee, 8 and yet we hear them speaking in our own native languages! 9 Here we are—Parthians, Medes, Elamites, people from Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, the province of Asia, 10 Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, and the areas of Libya around Cyrene, visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism), Cretans, and Arabs. And we all hear these people speaking in our own languages about the wonderful things God has done!”
> 
> *This never happens again in the bible where all the disciples are together. *We always have to be careful of Satan and his many many lies and tricks. You  must carefully search the scriptures for real truth and not words given by others.  It doesn't matter if your church is doing it or not we have to stand before God on our own convictions and we have no excuse because we have the word of God to read for ourselves.



This is actually not true - tho the disciples meeting in the upper room was by special instruction to wait for the Holy Spirit to come.  But disciples definitely speak in tongues later on...

*Acts 4:31*
_ 31After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly._

The above happened during a meeting of believers.

*Acts 10:46-48*
_*44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.* 45*The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] *and praising God.    Then Peter said, 47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days_

In the passage above Peter had been preaching a sermon and Gentiles who heard it began to speak in tongues and the believers were surprised.  Notice also that receiving the "gift of the Holy Spirit" mentioned in this passage is directly connected to speaking in tongues. 

*Acts 19:1-4*
_ 1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”    
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”    
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”    
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” 
5 When they heard  he said to them, *“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”* this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6*7 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. * Now the men were about twelve in all.    _


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## lilvudufly (Jun 18, 2009)

You have to believe first in order to recieve and do the acts of Jesus (John 14:12). That is the truth in accepting God as your Lord and Savior, health, prosperity, and yes tongues. In (Luke 16: 15-20) Talks about new tongues as a sign of belief it also speaks about healing. In Acts 8 Acts 10 and Acts 11. These chapter talk about how you can believe and receive God but how some also receive the Holy Spirit. With the Holy spirit comes tongues but more importantly comes the power to heal and do acts of goodness.


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## lilvudufly (Jun 18, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> This is actually not true - tho the disciples meeting in the upper room was by special instruction to wait for the Holy Spirit to come. But disciples definitely speak in tongues later on...
> 
> *Acts 4:31*
> _31After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly._
> ...


 
Johns baptized with water for the repentence of sins but in Acts 11: 16 ye shall be babtized with the Holy Spirit (not just belief and repentence of sins).


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## Raspberry (Jun 18, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> No, I have never spoken in tongues.  I do believe in the gift, though.  Could name multiple other profound spiritual experiences and gifts in my life, though.
> 
> While I do believe it is a gift and by no means necessary for salvation, I do think my spirit is closed to the phenomenon because of all the different ways I've seen it abused in churches, especially the fact that Paul says that tongues aren't supposed to be spoken in the congregation without an interpreter, which I've never seen happen and only heard of happening once from a friend of mine who also only saw it once.
> 
> This leads me to suspect that the genuine *Spirit-led gift of tongues is probably as rare as the gift of interpretation*, as people of wholly other faiths also experience "tongues" (glossolalia) as a spiritual experience.  Though I'm sure there are many corners of the Church where such genuine charismatic gifts abound.



I did not know that the gift of interpretation was considered rare - I have witnessed it many many times in different churches but of course all of our church experiences can be drastically different.  

I also had supernatural touches from God before I spoke in tongues - so I don't believe that one needs to speak in tongues to have other spiritual experiences..  

The one key thing that I see in scripture is that a special boldness and power to perform the work of the Lord often accompanied being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking tongues.  One has to walk in this power and boldness of course, we have to remember that God doesn't give of Himself just to stay to ourselves.. the gifts are given primarily for us to minister to and edify other believers.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> This is actually not true - tho the disciples meeting in the upper room was by special instruction to wait for the Holy Spirit to come.  But disciples definitely speak in tongues later on...
> 
> *Acts 4:31*
> _ 31After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly._
> ...



hey man, you don't know what happened, you weren't there...
that is an interpretation, not saying its wrong, but to some of us (like me) tongues is really farfetched, you gotta come a little harder than that if ur gonna convince me homegirl...
I'm saved and I have one tongue that speaks English


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 18, 2009)

Plus it says SPOKE THE WORD OF GODLY...
not: Spoke in tongues...
these don't really make sense to me... just to me though, not saying for everyone else


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## Raspberry (Jun 18, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> hey man, you don't know what happened, you weren't there...
> that is an interpretation, not saying its wrong, but to some of us (like me) tongues is really farfetched, you gotta come a little harder than that if ur gonna convince me homegirl...
> I'm saved and I have one tongue that speaks English



Girl Imma need you to stop - I just busted out laughing for real 

I really got nothin more for ya if you doubt Paul or Peter is telling the truth.  You don't have to believe in tongues if you don't want to, but I do encourage you to pray to God for wisdom to read and understand His word.


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## lilvudufly (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm concerned about that post refering to calling out in the name of Lord. In the event of a miracle or a breakthrough it is perfectly normal to shout. People shout at sports or music why not cry unto the Lord. I do think there is a time and place for that i.e. praise and worship oppose to the middle of a sermon. Tongues are the evidence of the Holy Spirit, not baptism with water (the repentence of sins) as John did. Tongues or evidence really should not be the focus. The Power to heal, lay hands, do goodness etc. talked about in ACTS should be main focus. What difference does it make if you have tongue evidence but no evidence of God in your life. No show of his power in your affairs or relationships. That is the power or evidence I want, the good thing is that tongues accompany that. For me I have to really be filled up with the Word of God (bible, service, tapes, music, fellowship) continuously and be really in tune spiritually to feel the presence of tongues in my prayer life. In other word my spiritual tank has to be full in order to utter Gods words. That usually comes with time, persistence and consistency.


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## Laela (Jun 18, 2009)

I speak in tongues, but _only _as the Holy Ghost gives utterance when I submit to the Spirit in prayer or otherwise. I believe that not everyone will speak or pray in tongues, but anyone can. It is a gift from the Holy Spirit, and not speaking in tongues doesn't mean a person isn't saved or won't keep anyone from going to heaven.   

The Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues are two different things.

The Bible clearly says that all saved persons have received the Holy Ghost (I Corin 12:13) _For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body_. Not all saved people speak in tongues.

I do, however, believe that for the Believer who constantly seek to always be in God's presence, the Holy Ghost will start revealing more to them. They will be on another level.

Also, a saved person CAN feel the Holy Spirit move and not fall out or do somersaults or scream, hoop and holla. The very presence of God's Spirit is intense, and sometimes our flesh cannot handle it well, thus some will experience these physical manifestations. I also believe it's very much possible that people can overdo it or "act up" long after the Spirit has moved -- that's when the emotions take over. But we can't adeptly serve God only on emotions.

God Bless you for approaching this topic with such grace....



GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> This issue has come up several times in this forum.  There are those who believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of "saved" status ....evidence of being a christian.  There are those who believe it's essential to the christian walk and even those who believe that it's evidence that the person has entered into a relationship with Jesus.  What are your thoughts on this?  Have you ever spoken in tongues and do you believe that those who have never spoken in tongues are hell-bound?
> .


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## Raspberry (Jun 18, 2009)

lilvudufly said:


> I'm concerned about that post refering to calling out in the name of Lord. In the event of a miracle or a breakthrough it is perfectly normal to shout. People shout at sports or music why not cry unto the Lord. I do think there is a time and place for that i.e. praise and worship oppose to the middle of a sermon. Tongues are the evidence of the Holy Spirit, not baptism with water (the repentence of sins) as John did. *Tongues or evidence really should not be the focus. The Power to heal, lay hands, do goodness etc. talked about in ACTS should be main focus. What difference does it make if you have tongue evidence but no evidence of God in your life. No show of his power in your affairs or relationships.* That is the power or evidence I want, the good thing is that tongues accompany that. For me I have to really be filled up with the Word of God (bible, service, tapes, music, fellowship) continuously and be really in tune spiritually to feel the presence of tongues in my prayer life. In other word my spiritual tank has to be full in order to utter Gods words. That usually comes with time, persistence and consistency.



I absolutely agree   It's all well and good to talk about how folks act in church but the true evidence of the power of the Holy Spirit at work is a changed heart and life.  We all have to exercise faith and self-control we all have to make multiple decisions a day to follow the path of righteousness when we don't feel spiritual at all and would rather do what feels good.  

We can't experience all that God has for us if we're not walking according to His word  - and in fact we can quench the power of the Spirit through our actions.  That's why you'll see some powerful ministers of God who prophecy, heal, and all that fall into serious sin.  Their gifts don't replace their daily faith walk and renewing of the mind through the word.  

It is only embracing God's love that changes us, and by His love that we receive gifts from the Spirit.


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## Laela (Jun 18, 2009)

This is true..and explains why when the Holy Ghost moves only some people receive and praise and/or speak in tongues while others stare or are not moved at all. 

Not everyone attending a baseball game is a fan of baseball.  



lilvudufly said:


> You have to believe first in order to recieve and do the acts of Jesus (John 14:12). That is the truth in accepting God as your Lord and Savior, health, prosperity, and yes tongues. In (Luke 16: 15-20) Talks about new tongues as a sign of belief it also speaks about healing. In Acts 8 Acts 10 and Acts 11. These chapter talk about how you can believe and receive God but how some also receive the Holy Spirit. With the Holy spirit comes tongues but more importantly comes the power to heal and do acts of goodness.


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## Laela (Jun 18, 2009)

------------- Preach!





lilvudufly said:


> *I do think there is a time and place for that i.e. praise and worship oppose to the middle of a sermon.* Tongues are the evidence of the Holy Spirit, not baptism with water (the repentence of sins) as John did. Tongues or evidence really should not be the focus. The Power to heal, lay hands, do goodness etc. talked about in ACTS should be main focus. *What difference does it make if you have tongue evidence but no evidence of God in your life. No show of his power in your affairs or relationships.* That is the power or evidence I want, the good thing is that tongues accompany that. For me I have to really be filled up with the Word of God (bible, service, tapes, music, fellowship) continuously and be really in tune spiritually to feel the presence of tongues in my prayer life. In other word my spiritual tank has to be full in order to utter Gods words. That usually comes with time, persistence and consistency.


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## Laela (Jun 18, 2009)

I agree that it is important to read the Bible for ourselves.... the Day of Pentecost is what you're referring to (book of Acts ). It occurred shortly after Christ was resurrected and returned to heaven. Before he left, Jesus told his disciples in John 14 that God will send the Holy Ghost, the Comforter, to earth in his stead: 

_".. I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you._"

*The Day of Pentecost is the evidence of the Holy Ghost's arrival.* There could not be another day of Pentecost, of course, because he is now here. But people always have been speaking in tongues... which does mean language...another language not native to THAT speaker. It's like with the *infilling *of the Holy Ghost. This also occurs only once.  Subsequently, that saved person always will be "filled with  the Spirit" when he moves but they can only be infilled once. 



blazingthru said:


> When I read in Acts at Pentacost when the disciples recieved the holy spirit they began speaking in tongues but all the people from all over outside of the building---- each heard in their own language.* it served a purpose but there is no other time it happen as such* but the disciples had their own gifts some could actually speak another language as their gifts after receiving the holy spirit, some had healing and various other gifts.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 18, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> *This never happens again in the bible where all the disciples are togethe*r. We always have to be careful of Satan and his many many lies and tricks. You  must carefully search the scriptures for real truth and not words given by others.  It doesn't matter if your church is doing it or not we have to stand before God on our own convictions and we have no excuse because we have the word of God to read for ourselves.




You've actually got a point there because I read another interpretation of this and it's an orthodox perspective.  They said essentially that it was something that happened once.  Subsequent speaking in tongues is different.  If I find that article, I will cite it here.  I'm not knowledgeable about the charismatic movement but there is someone I can ask.  I was wondering about the various sects and their version of what tongues is and when it is appropriate.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 18, 2009)

SvelteVelvet said:


> Yes, I've had a conversation with God in tongues before. And get this...it wasn't in church. I actually question the validity of tongues spoken in church. Most especially when preachers do it in the pulpit. I've never heard my pastor speak in tongues, but I have seen a few people in my church do it to 'prove' their spirituality, I won't say I hate it, but it's a pet peeve of mine since being authentically baptized by the Holy Spirit. I can't even begin to try and repeat the tongues I spoke in, but there are some that seemed to have a 'practiced' tongue. Most especially "Eekadabobo" There was a time when I was in church feeling high in the Spirit and this speaker started with that "Eekadabobo" and the Spirit spoke through me in two syllables and that speaker stopped.



Forgive me y'all...but a relative of mine always quotes the folks who utter the same...."hababashembashonda...."  And she says, "I didn't think that Jesus came in a Honda!"  LOLOL!  I've seen a best friend that I know was a good and holy person speak in tongues....and then I've witnessed those who speak "hababashemdahonda"   Robert Tilton is one of them ahahahahahaha.  The "farting" preacher who I think that it's quite obvious he is a fake one.


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## MuseofTroy (Jun 19, 2009)

Speaking in Tongues is a gift of the spirit. It is not a requirement for salvation. 

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God (John 1:12). Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him (John 3:36). I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, he has crossed over from death to life (John 5:24). For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

The requirements for salvation to believe that Jesus died for our sins and only through him can we get to heaven. So anyone who says otherwise is INCORRECT.

As an individual grows in their relationship with Christ, there are gifts of the spirit that are given to followers.

1 Corinthians 12- discusses gifts that are given to the body of the church: 1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.  2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.  3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.  5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.  6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.  7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;  9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:  11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.  12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.  13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.  14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?  16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?  17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?  18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.  19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body.  21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 

Some of the gifts given to the body of Christ include
•	word of wisdom / message of wisdom, 1Cor 12:8 
•	word of knowledge / message of knowledge, 1 Cor 12:8 
•	faith, 1 Cor 12:9 
•	gifts of healing, 1 Cor 12:9, 12:28 
•	miracles / miraculous powers, 1 Cor 12:10, 12:28 
•	prophecy / prophesying / prophets, 1 Cor 12:10, 1 Cor 12:28, Rom 12:6, Eph 4:11 
•	discernment of spirits / distinguishing of spirits, 1 Cor 12:10 
•	speaking in tongues / varieties of tongues / speaking in different kinds of tongues, 1 Cor 12:10 
•	interpretation of tongues, 1 Cor 12:10 


Gifts of the Spirit is also mentioned in Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12,13 & 14, Ephesians 4

Apostle: One sent by God with a holy mission to fulfill; and the supernatural power and spiritual gifts to fulfill the mission. Known by the fruit of the spirit overflowing. Apostolic ministry involves laying foundation. In the case of Paul and Barnabas, we see this expressed in 'church planting' by preaching the Gospel in new areas. Apostles in scripture worked in teams. An apostolic team shared a 'measure of rule' in churches started through their ministry in regions where they are the first to proclaim the Gospel of Christ. (II Corinthians 10.)

Prophet: One who speaks, or communicates a message, authoritatively, as moved by the Holy Ghost. Known by their good fruit.

Evangelist: Someone who desires that all should come to know the truth that God loves everyone so much that He sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for their redemption, or someone who is gifted to proclaim this message.

Pastor: A word that means 'shepherd.' Pastors are gifted to lead, guide, and set an example for other Christians.

Teacher: Someone able to understand the more difficult things of God and explain them in a way that is easy to understand and live by in daily life.

Service: Supernatural ability to do for others whatever needs to be done. Divine ability to carry another burden or task without notice or earthly reward.

Exhortation: the ability to motivate Christians to do the works of Christ.

Giving: being blessed by God with resources or time and being able to give them where and when they are needed with a cheerful heart.

Leadership: God-given insight into when something needs to be done, who can do it, how it can be completed, and how to lead those people to get it accomplished.

Mercy: A heart to care for and encourage those who are not able to care for themselves and whom no one else would care for. Knowing who to help and when to help.

Word of wisdom: A message, concept, or bit of wisdom that God reveals supernaturally to the recipient. It may or may not be shared with others.

Word of knowledge: A message, concept, or bit of knowledge that God reveals supernaturally to the recipient. It may or may not be shared with others.

Tongues: First use is a supernatural ability to speak another language not known by the believer speaking it. Second use is a supernatural ability to speak another language not known by the believer speaking it; to build up the body of Christ when the message is interpreted. It is the language of the Holy Spirit.

Interpretation of tongues: Supernatural ability to make tongues a clear message to all that are present to edify, exhort and comfort the body of Christ.

Prophecy: Supernatural ability to receive a message from God to edify, exhort and comfort the body of Christ or a believer. To speak as moved by the Holy Spirit. Not all prophecies contain predictions about the future.

Working of miracles: The ability to perform supernatural acts by the Spirit of God.

Gifts of healing: Supernatural ability to bring or release healing to a person in their body or soul.

Ability to distinguish between spirits: Supernatural ability to know what is from God and what is not from God. Divine ability to reveal a demonic spirit or influence and bring God's power (Jesus' blood) and God's love (Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection) in its place.

Faith: Knowing what you hope for, having a conviction about things you cannot see, trusting God, believing God’s Word, and obeying God. (See Hebrews 11)

So ladies, as an individual grows with their relationship with Christ, they may receive certain spiritual gifts to serve the purpose of God. There is nothing to be afraid of when someone is speaking in tongues. In fact I was one of those people who use to be turned off by the sight, but I was coming from a place of ignorance. So my advice is that before we give our “opinions” about certain biblical issues, do your research. So many people read this board and the last thing any Christian should want is to give wrong information.

Here VERY good article on wikipedia on gits of the holy spirit which is where I took some of the examples. Usually Wikipedia's sources are questionable but this time the information is very useful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifts_of_the_Holy_Spirit


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## MuseofTroy (Jun 19, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> hey man, you don't know what happened, you weren't there...
> that is an interpretation, not saying its wrong, but to some of us (like me) tongues is really farfetched, you gotta come a little harder than that if ur gonna convince me homegirl...
> I'm saved and I have one tongue that speaks English


 
You know Music I'm slightly concerned about some of your comments on the Christian board. If you are genuinely interested in learning about the bible and the different aspects of Christianity, why don't you contact a pastor or a friend who is knowledgeable to explain some of the concepts that you haven't grasped? Correct me if I'm wrong but are you interested in learning or just challenging certain beliefs? What's your purpose?

The reason I'm asking is because how you are coming off is going to turn people away from engaging you in conversation, at least in the Christian board.  I think most of the ladies really do like to share and learn more about being a Christian and the different aspects of God. I think before you post anything else you should ask yourself  "what purpose am I serving? Will I make a valuable contribution to the discussion. Will this be an opprotunity for someone to learn?" If you can't answer your own question or the answer is no, then perhaps you should observe until you have something meaningful to add to the discussion.


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## Laela (Jun 19, 2009)

Well, David was a man after God's own heart yet he had a man killed to take his wife... 

God commanded us to not forsake the gathering of ourselves, so the purpose of meeting with other believers to worship helps keep us on track and refresh our spirits - despite what's going on in our lives.  Worship is a personal thing and who is to say what someone's state of mind is during a service? They could be hell on wheels outside but when they're in the sanctuary/dome/church, God could be dealing with them. 
Bu I do understand what you mean about faking..that is possible as well. 




trenise said:


> I do not believe that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation because I have seen so many people speak in tongues and I was like "I know they aint saved". Yes I guess that was being judgemental. *But if you know someone is stepping out on their wife then jumping, and dancing, and speaking in tongues in church, don't you think it must be fake? *IDK, I just think too many people fake it for me to say it's evidence of salvation. It's a church requirement for salvation at many churches. I really love the services in those churches, too, but that's not the evidence.


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## Blaque*Angel (Jun 19, 2009)

i always said i never believed in it unless it happened to my mother. 

it happened at church last week!! she describes a feeling of extreme thirst, wanting to cry, and feeling so overwhelmed with positivity and love 

i am now a believer


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## blazingthru (Jun 19, 2009)

msa said:


> Yup, and everyone has different convictions based on their interpretation of the word. I think that's why the question was asked in the first place because speaking in tongues is one of the things that is debated over and over again and there still isn't one uniform conclusion.


 
I understand what your saying but our convictions must be based on the word of God that we have studied and researched and prayed about.  Not something a person read and thats it. The bible is designed for study and researched. God is not a God of disorder.  I thought it was strange that people spoke this way and waited for it to happen to me and it never did so I researched it and found that it doesn't happen again in the bible. This served a purpose for the apostles at that time that they all spoke in different languages. It was for the glorification of our Father, those people were amazed to hear the disciples praising God in their own Tongues anything more is something else entirely. 

*Proverbs 14:6*
A scoffer *seek*s *wisdom* and does not find it,But knowledge is easy to him who understands.
Proverbs 14:5-7 (in Context) Proverbs 14 (Whole Chapter) 
*Ecclesiastes 1:13*
And I set my heart to *seek* and search out by *wisdom* concerning all that is done under heaven; this burdensome task God has given to the sons of man, by which they may be exercised.
Ecclesiastes 1:12-14 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 1 (Whole Chapter) 
*Ecclesiastes 7:25*
I applied my heart to know, To search and *seek* out *wisdom* and the reason of things,To know the wickedness of folly, Even of foolishness and madness.
Ecclesiastes 7:24-26 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 7 (Whole Chapter) 
*Acts 6:3*
Therefore, brethren, *seek* out from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and *wisdom*, whom we may appoint over this business;
Acts 6:2-4 (in Context) Acts 6 (Whole Chapter) 
*1 Corinthians 1:22*
For Jews request a sign, and Greeks *seek* after *wisdom*;
1 Corinthians 1:21-23 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter)


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## mamaore (Jun 19, 2009)

Now I understand, why this is a touchy topic. So this is my final contribution.

On any topic/issue in Christianity...never, never, ever, ever have a closed mind/spirit.

Be always teachable, and keep praying for revelation of the rhema of Gods word and you will know all things. Remember you can never understand God with your mind or common sense, you can't reason God out except with your spirit. God is a spirit.

Ask any pastor, or your spiritual mentor(if you have one), their knowledge of God is progressive. You know more by and by if your heart is open.

Father, I ask in Jesus Name that everyone who has contributed to this thread in one form or the other have their eyes of their understanding enlightened continually in the whole truth of the word. I pray that you will continually help us to understand fully your whole counsel, that we may rightly didvide the word of truth.

Lord, let us know you more, let us fully comprehend with all the saints the mighty power that is at work in us and who we are in Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen!.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 19, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> *We can't experience all that God has for us if we're not walking according to His word  - and in fact we can quench the power of the Spirit through our actions. * That's why you'll see some _powerful ministers of God who prophecy, heal, and all that fall into serious sin.  Their gifts don't replace their daily faith walk and renewing of the mind through the word_.
> 
> It is only embracing God's love that changes us, and by His love that we receive gifts from the Spirit.




I do not comprehend this.  If walking closer with G-d would open one up to these types of spiritual gifts, then why would they even have these gifts of prophecy, healing and such when they are living in sin?


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## Nice & Wavy (Jun 19, 2009)

mamaore said:


> I am new here, so havent been privy to other threads on this subject.
> 
> First of all, I encourage us all to always pray the pauline prayers in Ehpesians 1:17-20 3:14-19. There is another one in Colossians.
> When I dont understand something, I always pray this prayers for myself and I as I read the bible, study and research other materials, my spirit becomes enlightened to receive more rhema from his word on the given subject.
> ...


 


mamaore said:


> Now I understand, why this is a touchy topic. So this is my final contribution.
> 
> On any topic/issue in Christianity...never, never, ever, ever have a closed mind/spirit.
> 
> ...


 
Welcome!


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 19, 2009)

Everyone is welcome to post their opinion in this thread.  Personalities will clash...but all I see are valid questionings, answers and grey area.


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## aribell (Jun 19, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> I did not know that the gift of interpretation was considered rare - I have witnessed it many many times in different churches but of course all of our church experiences can be drastically different.


 
No, I don't think interpretation was considered rare.  I was just trying to say that in the NT, Paul specifically says that tongues shouldn't be spoken in church without an interpreter.  But today, many more churches and ministers, prayers, etc. go off in "tongues" with no one coming forward to interpret.  

I don't think that this is only because people aren't paying attention to Paul's instruction.  I also think it's because for a lot of people, speaking in tongues is a learned thing and also because it is a spiritual phenomenon experienced in non-Christian faiths (like Hindus) as well and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the Spirit...so there probably isn't an interpretation to be given at all.  I believe that there are tongues that are Spirit-based and those that have to do with our own emotions and mental state while in an intense prayer posture.

What other faiths don't experience, however, is someone coming forward to interpret what the tongues say, or someone from another part of the world who actually speaks that language coming forward and saying that they understood the tongues because it was actually in their native language.  

Anyway! JMO, I don't question the gift.  I don't think, though that it's presence has much to do with spiritual maturity, as brand new Christians in the NT spoke in tongues and experienced other miraculous events.  Plus, Galatians tells us what the fruits of the Spirit are: love, joy, peace, etc.  And Jesus said that those who do the will of God are the true followers.  Tongues may be _an_ evidence of the presence of the Spirit, but is by no means the only or even primary one.


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## Laela (Jun 19, 2009)

What you seem to be confusing is the Day of Pentecost (when God's Holy Ghost was sent) with all instances of speaking in tongues since that day. God only needed to send the Spirit of the Godhead to us from Heaven one time.  

If you research your Bible some more, you'll see in the books of Peter and Jude references to the Holy Spirit after he was sent from heaven. 

There is a clear reference in Jude where we are encouraged to pray in the Holy Spirit (tongues) in order to build up our faith:

*"But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit." 
Jude 1:20*

God is a spiritual diety... applying logic and reasoning to his Word will leave even the most intelligent person baffled and confused. Our hearts must be open to receive God and his Word, becuase he won't force himself on us otherwise. Wisdom comes from God. Intellect is of man.




blazingthru said:


> I understand what your saying but our convictions must be based on the word of God that we have studied and researched and prayed about.  Not something a person read and thats it. *The bible is designed for study and researched*. God is not a God of disorder.  I* thought it was strange that people spoke this way and waited for it to happen to me and it never did so I researched it and found that it doesn't happen again in the bible. *This served a purpose for the apostles at that time that they all spoke in different languages. It was for the glorification of our Father, those people were amazed to hear the disciples praising God in their own Tongues anything more is something else entirely.


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## msa (Jun 19, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I understand what your saying *but our convictions must be based on the word of God that we have studied and researched and prayed about.*  Not something a person read and thats it. The bible is designed for study and researched.




Having researched, studied, and prayed about the word, I've come to a different conclusion.

That was my point. Everyone can read, research, study, and pray about the same scripture and still have different conclusions. That's why there are so many different sects of Christianity. Now I'm not saying you, or Veejee, or anyone else is "wrong", I'm just saying we have a different understanding.


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## aribell (Jun 19, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I understand what your saying but our convictions must be based on the word of God that we have studied and researched and prayed about. Not something a person read and thats it. The bible is designed for study and researched. God is not a God of disorder.


 


Laela said:


> What you seem to be confusing is the Day of Pentecost (when God's Holy Ghost was sent) with all instances of speaking in tongues since that day. God only needed to send the Spirit of the Godhead to us from Heaven one time.
> 
> If you research your Bible some more, you'll see in the books of Peter and Jude references to the Holy Spirit after he was sent from heaven.
> 
> ...


 
I don't understand the distinction being made between reasoning and faith.  Blazingthru said she read the Bible and came to a particular conclusion based on what she believed it said.  That's what we're supposed to do.  God said, "Come, let us reason together."  We are also told to study to show ourselves approved unto God.

The Bible never condemns intellect as being merely human.  Rather it is the "wisdom of the world" spoken of in Corinthians that we are to guard against.  And the wisdom of the world isn't about not using our reasoning skills but about the world's values and ways of thinking.  No, we'll never come to the truth if we think the way the world thinks, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't think critically about our spiritual experiences or our interpretation of the Bible.  We grow in having "the mind of Christ" as we continually learn what the Bible says and understand what it is requiring of us.  You can't do that without reason and intellect.

Also, Jude doesn't say that praying in the Spirit means praying with tongues.  Is there somewhere else where that connection is made?


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 19, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> Girl Imma need you to stop - I just busted out laughing for real
> 
> I really got nothin more for ya if you doubt Paul or Peter is telling the truth.  You don't have to believe in tongues if you don't want to, but I do encourage you to pray to God for wisdom to read and understand His word.



True that lol glad I could give you a laugh tho


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 19, 2009)

MuseofTroy said:


> You know Music I'm slightly concerned about some of your comments on the Christian board. If you are genuinely interested in learning about the bible and the different aspects of Christianity, why don't you contact a pastor or a friend who is knowledgeable to explain some of the concepts that you haven't grasped? Correct me if I'm wrong but are you interested in learning or just challenging certain beliefs? What's your purpose?
> 
> The reason I'm asking is because how you are coming off is going to turn people away from engaging you in conversation, at least in the Christian board.  I think most of the ladies really do like to share and learn more about being a Christian and the different aspects of God. I think before you post anything else you should ask yourself  "what purpose am I serving? Will I make a valuable contribution to the discussion. Will this be an opprotunity for someone to learn?" If you can't answer your own question or the answer is no, then perhaps you should observe until you have something meaningful to add to the discussion.



I say this in the most loving way possible... Whom are you to challenge the relevance or "meaningfulness" (that might not be a word oops in a rush) about what I say? If I post something you don't agree with it is simply that... If you take it as a challenge then I guess it is, however I am learning about other people's point of view while you are getting mad at mine... Which one of us is getting what their $6.50 paid for? I know I am, because this is interesting and fun to me. If you don't like it just don't read my posts. Or you can say stuff like you just did... That's cool too... This is an online forum, not a tea party... Your perceptions and your thoughts are your right just as mine are... Last time I checked forums were for discussion... And I am discussing. So please don't spend your time being offended because my posts are not going to change, and I hope that you wouldn't change for another person either. I don't see why you would take the time to address me about this... But since you did I will gladly reply... Just skip over mine if I bother u... That will keep everyone happy and it won't bother me... 
At the end of the day does any of this even matter? No... So have some fun... I am


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## MuseofTroy (Jun 19, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> I say this in the most loving way possible... Whom are you to challenge the relevance or "meaningfulness" (that might not be a word oops in a rush) about what I say? If I post something you don't agree with it is simply that... If you take it as a challenge then I guess it is, however I am learning about other people's point of view while you are getting mad at mine... Which one of us is getting what their $6.50 paid for? I know I am, because this is interesting and fun to me. If you don't like it just don't read my posts. Or you can say stuff like you just did... That's cool too... This is an online forum, not a tea party... Your perceptions and your thoughts are your right just as mine are... Last time I checked forums were for discussion... And I am discussing. So please don't spend your time being offended because my posts are not going to change, and I hope that you wouldn't change for another person either. I don't see why you would take the time to address me about this... But since you did I will gladly reply... Just skip over mine if I bother u... That will keep everyone happy and it won't bother me...
> At the end of the day does any of this even matter? No... So have some fun... I am


 
You are an educator correct? As an educator you encourage your students to read thoroughly and have critical thinking skills correct? I admire educators because without them, we wouldn't have doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers etc. With that being said, can you clarify for me where in my post did I suggest that I was mad? I'm very direct and clear in my presentation so I'm not sure why you are putting words and feelings into my post. I challenged you to look within yourself to see if your words make a meaningful contribution to the thread. I didn't say you weren't insightful. In fact your posts have proven to be an excellent learning opportunity for some individuals. Sometimes when a question is asked, I'm forced to think about the issue on a deeper level. Nevertheless, I would highly encourage you that you read my post and others very carefully before you reply back and make assumptions.


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## aribell (Jun 19, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I personally am very frightened in the company of people speaking in tongues and dancing around... in the spirit . Emotional experiences where they weep and cry out, dancing. I dunno, it kinda freaks me out. They seem edified and at peace though, which is kewl and important...no one being harmed. I just don't prefer to have anything to do with it because I do not comprehend it. I have to think that they are probably just as freaked out about my religious/spiritual experiences of another genre.


 
I can't really tolerate it either.  Walked out of a church service with a woman pastor who I geninely believed had a gift of prophecy and had personally experienced it.  And yet once they got started I just up and left, which I'm sure was noticeable as there were only like 15 people in the service, if that.  I haven't been back since.  I think there ends up being a lot of spiritual confusion in situations like that.  Some people in the Spirit, others in their own psychological trance-like states, others emotionally frenzied, and some perhaps demonically influenced, as others have posted about.  I couldn't speak to that, but in that particular situation and others my spirit was screaming out that there was unholiness present.



> You have to believe first in order to recieve and do the acts of Jesus (John 14:12). That is the truth in accepting God as your Lord and Savior, health, prosperity, and yes tongues. In (Luke 16: 15-20) Talks about new tongues as a sign of belief it also speaks about healing. In Acts 8 Acts 10 and Acts 11. These chapter talk about how you can believe and receive God but how some also receive the Holy Spirit. With the Holy spirit comes tongues but more importantly comes the power to heal and do acts of goodness.


 
In general, I think people agree that you have to believe and if you do genuinely believe, then the Holy Spirit will be manifested in your life and with power.  But we can't elevate tongues over everything else or any other manifestation of the Spirit.  

In Romans, Paul is countering exactly this idea, that one spiritual gift is better than another:  "Fory by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly...For as in one body we have many members and the members _do not all have the same function."_

And the manifestation of God's power isn't all wrapped up in one package for the individual believer, but is poured out on _the Body as a whole, _God's church as a whole.  So, yes, all spiritual gifts are a manifestation of the presence of the Spirit, but they are apportioned to every believer differently.  Some speak tongues, some heal, some interpret, etc.  1 Cor. 13.

It's odd that in our churches we focus on these supernatural experiences to be evidence that the Holy Spirit is with us and that we are truly God's own, and yet Jesus gave His story where people at the last day will be saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't we do x, y, or z in your name?  Didn't we prophesy?  Didn't we do other mighty works?"  And He is going to tell them not that they didn't do those things, but that they were not obedient to God's commands.  (Matthew 7:21)  Those He names as actually doing the will of the Father are those who feed the sick, clothe the poor, visit the imprisoned, welcome the stranger, etc.  (Matthew 25)  

Yes, Jesus definitely tells the apostles--the founders of the Christian church as a whole--that they will do great works, but at the end of the day, those experiences reflect nothing about us, only _God's_ power, which can be manifested at any time, in any place, and through _whomever_ He chooses.  So to say "Oh, I healed this person here, I was given a prophetic word there, I spoke in tongues or interpreted, etc. and that shows how close I am to God," is deceptive.  We are specifically told, and _repeatedly _in the Bible, that those who _do_ the _will_ of God are His true children.  Those who _obey_ His commandments.  That's not how we are saved, but it's those things, not tongues or any other spiritual gift, that God tells us to look at to see if we are really walking with Him.

Gifts versus fruits.  _Gifts_ are those things that are freely given, without anything having to be done by the recipient.  _Fruits_ are the *evidence* of the content of one's heart.  All of the spiritual experiences talked about in the Bible and manifestation of the Spirit's power are considered _gifts_.  But we are taught that the way we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith is to see our _fruit_...not the _gifts_ that we have.  And the fruit of the Spirit is:  love, joy, peace, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, patience, and self-control.  As Jesus said, "You will know them by their _fruit_."

I personally feel that talking about this is important because like others mentioned before, people can be living in sin and then go to church, have x, y, or z experiences, and base their confidence in their relationship with God on these things.  Or believe that they are more spiritual because they had z, y, or x experience. (see purple below)  We can't do that.  _We _keep talking about whether tongues is the evidence of salvation, and yet the Lord gives us explicit instructions multiple times as to how we are to examine our spiritual state:  first by simply believing in Christ for our salvation and then obeying Him as Lord--looking at the fruit (not the gifts) that is produced in our lives, looking at our lives and seeing if we are obeying His commands.  Focusing on what gifts we do or do not have (or our "health and prosperity") is a distraction from that.

(Btw, contrary to the idea that tongues is a sign of spiritual maturity, Christian authors throughout the centuries have consistently said that oftentimes God gives such supernatural experiences to new Christians, but begins to wean more mature Christians off of them so that they learn to have faith without being dependent on God manifesting Himself in a particular way in order to continue to believe.  Check out John of the Cross' Dark Night of the Soul.  Just putting that out there as something different to think about.)


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 19, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> It's odd that in our churches we focus on these supernatural experiences to be evidence that the Holy Spirit is with us and that we are truly God's own, and yet Jesus gave His story where people at the last day will be saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't we do x, y, or z in your name?  Didn't we prophesy?  Didn't we do other mighty works?"  And He is going to tell them not that they didn't do those things, but that they were not obedient to God's commands.  (Matthew 7:21)  *Those He names as actually doing the will of the Father are those who feed the sick, clothe the poor, visit the imprisoned, welcome the stranger, etc.  (Matthew 25)  *
> 
> Yes, Jesus definitely tells the apostles--the founders of the Christian church as a whole--that they will do great works, but at the end of the day, those experiences reflect nothing about us, only _God's_ power, which can be manifested at any time, in any place, and through _whomever_ He chooses.  So to say "Oh, I healed this person here, I was given a prophetic word there, I spoke in tongues or interpreted, etc. and that shows how close I am to God," is deceptive.  We are specifically told, and _repeatedly _in the Bible, that those who _do_ the _will_ of God are His true children.  Those who _obey_ His commandments.  That's not how we are saved, but it's those things, not tongues or any other spiritual gift, that God tells us to look at to see if we are really walking with Him.
> 
> ...




I'm sorry y'all, this kid is brilliant!!! I just have to say it.  Did you say you studied theology?  Springfield?  You sound just like so many I know of who studied there and they are so well-balanced, it's incredible.  Mini shout-out to Show-me.


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## Laela (Jun 20, 2009)

Nicola,

Man reasons, that's a fact. God doesn't.  When Jesus was here, he was a student of the law and he did reason because he was made man. There's nothing wrong with studying the Word and being critical, but not to the point of disbelief. This is what I had issue with.

*My comments were specific to the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues*

Our goal as Believers or Christians, or whatever we choose to call ourselves, is to be more like God and less like man. When I said what I said, I wasn't condeming or saying that God condemns intellect. If you feel I was being haughty, that's not the case. But IMHO, applying *pure *logic to understand the Holy Ghost (or God himself, rather) is counterproductive, as he is a spiritual diety. 

I personally know people who read the Bible and are atheists or not saved and say so. Studying it and applying its principles are two separate things. I'm not implicating anything about anyone in this forum, because I don't know anyone here. I'm just saying the Bible is for ANYONE to read/study. 

To specifically address speaking in tongues: Someone said that they "waited" to speak in tongues and nothing happens. Well, * Faith without works is dead..* IOW, there has to be corresponding actions if anyone is to exercise their faith. Like I said, God won't force himself on anyone; We have to be open to receive him for him to be a part of our lives.

There are a lot of things I cannot articulate or explain for it to make any "sense" and until you experience something yourself, a person will have a hard time explaining it to you or convincing you to believe. This is where FAITH comes in. God isn't to be questioned or figured out. He is to be embraced and welcomed into our lives BY FAITH. 

The last time I wrote a post like this, it was censored (deleted)... 

So I hope you get to read it... lol



nicola.kirwan said:


> I don't understand the distinction being made between reasoning and faith.  Blazingthru said she read the Bible and came to a particular conclusion based on what she believed it said.  That's what we're supposed to do.  God said, "Come, let us reason together."  We are also told to study to show ourselves approved unto God.
> 
> The Bible never condemns intellect as being merely human.  Rather it is the "wisdom of the world" spoken of in Corinthians that we are to guard against.  And the wisdom of the world isn't about not using our reasoning skills but about the world's values and ways of thinking.  No, we'll never come to the truth if we think the way the world thinks, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't think critically about our spiritual experiences or our interpretation of the Bible.  We grow in having "the mind of Christ" as we continually learn what the Bible says and understand what it is requiring of us.  You can't do that without reason and intellect.


I stand corrected on this, and I'm glad you pointed that out. I had a discussion earlier today with a brother and he did say I was not quite right.. He said speaking in the Spirit and tongues are sometime interchangeable in error. But when a person who can speak in tongues prays in the Spirit, they _will _speak in tongues. I hope I'm better at articulating this.



nicola.kirwan said:


> Also, Jude doesn't say that praying in the Spirit means praying with tongues.  Is there somewhere else where that connection is made?


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## Laela (Jun 20, 2009)

It's evident that this is more a clash of faith and reason, than a clash of personalities. The former is more intolerable for some than the latter. But it's an interesting discussion indeed.






GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Everyone is welcome to post their opinion in this thread.  Personalities will clash...but all I see are valid questionings, answers and grey area.


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## Laela (Jun 20, 2009)

Well said!! And I tell you we ought to know why this will happen. Many people will SAY they love but not actually have any love in their hearts. *This is how God knows us, through our hearts.* We can do great things without having the heart to do it.

All God knows and is is LOVE. If we love God, we will keep his commandments. To not do his will is to not love God.  To not love God is to reject him - that's what makes a person condemn themselves to hell.

So it is very possible to go through the rituals of a Christian life and not make it to heaven. 

Still, there are those who do his will and yield to the Holy Spirit and also do great works and cast out demons and heal with a touch.  

ITA with you on the importance of talking about this. 




nicola.kirwan said:


> It's odd that in our churches we focus on these supernatural experiences to be evidence that the Holy Spirit is with us and that we are truly God's own, *and yet Jesus gave His story where people at the last day will be saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't we do x, y, or z in your name?  Didn't we prophesy?  Didn't we do other mighty works?"  And He is going to tell them not that they didn't do those things, but that they were not obedient to God's commands.  *(Matthew 7:21)  Those He names as actually doing the will of the Father are those who feed the sick, clothe the poor, visit the imprisoned, welcome the stranger, etc.  (Matthew 25)
> 
> Yes, Jesus definitely tells the apostles--the founders of the Christian church as a whole--that they will do great works, but at the end of the day, those experiences reflect nothing about us, only _God's_ power, which can be manifested at any time, in any place, and through _whomever_ He chooses.  So to say "Oh, I healed this person here, I was given a prophetic word there, I spoke in tongues or interpreted, etc. and that shows how close I am to God," is deceptive.  We are specifically told, and _repeatedly _in the Bible, that those who _do_ the _will_ of God are His true children.  Those who _obey_ His commandments.  That's not how we are saved, but it's those things, not tongues or any other spiritual gift, that God tells us to look at to see if we are really walking with Him.
> 
> ...


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## aribell (Jun 20, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I'm sorry y'all, this kid is brilliant!!! I just have to say it. Did you say you studied theology? Springfield? You sound just like so many I know of who studied there and they are so well-balanced, it's incredible. Mini shout-out to Show-me.


 
  Well, I'm glad you found it useful.  I didn't go to Springfield, but I had some truly terrific, brilliant, and godly professors at the Christian university I attended (btw, anyone with teenagers looking for a Christian college, check out www.eastern.edu).  Learned an immense amount from those folks.  Anyway, I am from the show-me state, though, so double shout-out! 



Laela said:


> Nicola,
> 
> Man reasons, that's a fact. God doesn't. When Jesus was here, he was a student of the law and he did reason because he was made man. There's nothing wrong with studying the Word and being critical, but not to the point of disbelief. This is what I had issue with.
> 
> ...


 
I get what you're saying.


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## Blossssom (Jun 20, 2009)

I spoke in tongue last night:  AT THE BAR!


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## divya (Jun 20, 2009)

I believe speaking in tongues refers to the ability to speak understandable _languages_, so that people will hear the Word of God in their native/familiar languages. As told in Acts, on the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit bestowed this gift so that the gospel message would spread to the scores of different peoples present.

There is no statement in the Scriptures that a person must speak in tongues in order to prove the presence of the Holy Spirit.  In fact, the Scriptures tell us that the myriad of gifts are bestowed to us as the Lord sees fit (see 1 Corinthians 12). Some receive certain gifts while some receive others. The fruits of the Spirit are given in Galatians 14. 

In 1 Corinthians 14, the Scriptures clarify that tongues must be understandable to others. If someone is speaking in an unknown tongue, then there must be an interpreter. Others must understand in order to be edified. 

Just to expound further, tongues does not refer to unintelligible, undecipherable speech. The Scriptures speak against such things. In fact, Jesus taught us how to pray and gave instruction on these matters.

*Matthew 6:7* _But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. _ The Greek word for “repetitions” here is _battalogeo_, which translates to _babbling, stammering, or chattering_.  Here is in interesting explanation: 

_In Matthew 6:7 Jesus said, "But when ye pray, use not vain [or `meaningless'] repetitions, as the pagans do...." The phrase "vain repititions" is the Greek word battalogeo. The verb logeo means "to speak," and the prefix batta is not even a word. It is a figure of speech that in English we call an onomatopoeia--the naming of something by a vocal imitation of the sound it makes. For example, we say that a bee goes buzz, or a zipper goes zip, or a plane goes whish. Those aren't words, they're onomatopoetic figures of speech. Well, batta isn't a word either. What Jesus is literally saying in Matthew 6:7 is, "When you pray, don't say batta, batta, batta--the sound of the stammering, stuttering gibberish that the pagans offer to their gods. The Father isn't interested in that kind of communication." So, we are to pray intelligibly and "with the understanding" (1 Cor. 14:15). http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg1871.htm_

This makes much sense. If anyone has ever heard the babbling and stammering of individuals who claim to catch the spirits of  certain non-Christians gods and goddesses, it is strikingly similar to the babbling and stammering of those who claim have caught the Holy Spirit. This should not be the case. The presence of the Holy Spirit is always different from that which is not of God. The fruits of the Spirit include temperance (self-control). One must be able to control speech and as noted earlier, to interpret and understand for it to be the Spirit of God. 

Whenever God creates something good and pure, Satan - the master of deceit - comes up with a counterfeit to defeat the purposes of God. Here it is important to recognize that speaking in tongues refers to languages that others can understand for the spreading of the gospel and edification of others. Anything else is a counterfeit...

God bless.


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## varaneka (Jun 20, 2009)

http://noblather.blogspot.com/2008/05/i-wrote-tongues-as-evidence-of.html

http://noblather.blogspot.com/2007/11/tongues-as-evidence-of-salvation.html

those two blogs, while I don't believe EVERY LAST WORD, argue why speaking in tongues is not required of every believer to be saved.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 20, 2009)

last post (for now) in this thread...
all of us were raised different
all of us are different ages
all of us are from different areas
all of us are weird for even caring about this LOL
(btw, for everyone who has never texted, LOL is put somewhere to insinuate a joke, to lighten the mood, like... don't take the previous statement seriously)
but anyways, I know this is absolutely correct:

Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,* neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If anybody can really say that this means that speaking in tongues are a requirement, then I'll send you some cookies...
And I don't think that people that speak in tongues are more "spiritually grown" than I am. And I teach at a private school. And I will gladly tell my kids that every day for the rest of my career.
My God does not separate. My God is one of equality. He says to draw near to Him, not nearer to Him than everyone around you...
Maybe that is an assumption as well though...
Maybe all of my beliefs are assumptions...
The "Christian" Forum is very frustrating to me, and somehow enjoyable at the same time...
daps n hugs.*


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 20, 2009)

Blossssom said:


> I spoke in tongue last night:  AT THE BAR!



I am laughing... hard...
Disappointed, but honestly the comedic timing is difficult to ignore


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## Blossssom (Jun 20, 2009)

LOLOL!  Oh God...


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 20, 2009)

u know someone's looking at this planning their attack on you... its hot in here LOL
and u got that naked skinny heifer as your avatar lol its coming soon
who is that anyways she has a good body i wanna look like that in a bathing suit... geeez =/


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## Blossssom (Jun 20, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> u know someone's looking at this planning their attack on you... its hot in here LOL
> and u got that naked skinny heifer as your avatar lol its coming soon
> who is that anyways she has a good body i wanna look like that in a bathing suit... geeez =/



That's my "wife":  Aria Giovanni!

Her body is 100% AMAZING!

Check out this website.  If the link doesn't work, go to Yahoo.com and type in her name 

Hottest woman on the PLANET!  

http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...&sigr=11hoshdf1&sigi=120g4r552&sigb=11nfla9tm

Yea, I had no idea that the Christian Forum rolled like this!

Forget the Soap Opera and Relationship Forums!

JER-RY!  JER-RY!  JER-RY!


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## hurricane (Jun 20, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> This issue has come up several times in this forum. There are those who believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of "saved" status ....evidence of being a christian. There are those who believe it's essential to the christian walk and even those who believe that it's evidence that the person has entered into a relationship with Jesus. What are your thoughts on this? Have you ever spoken in tongues and do you believe that those who have never spoken in tongues are hell-bound?
> 
> 
> Disclaimer and Posting Etiquette:
> These threads have generally become very heated...ahem, I was guilty of such before. I do not wish for flaming in this one. Just honest opinion and OPEN discussion. Bare your thoughts on this and please provide scripture for those of us scripturally impaired.


____________________________________________________________

*I think this would be a time to ask those people who believe this or that to lead you to a scripture which supports their beliefs. That would be very beneficial in proving what is true and what is false.*


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## kawista9 (Jun 21, 2009)

YES YES YES!!


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 21, 2009)

Ramya said:


> *sigh* nevermind.




I was asking you to explain how it's essential to the believer if not required of him.  That's what I meant by it being edifying.  I haven't read the new posts yet....so if this is a repeat, please disregard...I'll get to the posts tonight.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 21, 2009)

Blossssom said:


> I spoke in tongue last night:  AT THE BAR!




I don't think French is a holy language


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 21, 2009)

LOL right lol


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## Laela (Jun 21, 2009)

I agree.

 It's been addressed in this thread there is a distinction between speaking in tongues and being moved by the Holy Ghost to utter. A lot of Believers, like myself, mistakenly make see the two as interchangeable. I am not ashamed to say I was not quite right.


divya said:


> I believe speaking in tongues refers to the ability to speak understandable _languages_, so that people will hear the Word of God in their native/familiar languages. As told in Acts, on the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit bestowed this gift so that the gospel message would spread to the scores of different peoples present.
> 
> There is no statement in the Scriptures that a person must speak in tongues in order to prove the presence of the Holy Spirit.  In fact, the Scriptures tell us that the myriad of gifts are bestowed to us as the Lord sees fit (see 1 Corinthians 12). Some receive certain gifts while some receive others. The fruits of the Spirit are given in Galatians 14.
> 
> In 1 Corinthians 14, the Scriptures clarify that tongues must be understandable to others. If someone is speaking in an unknown tongue, then there must be an interpreter. Others must understand in order to be edified.







 Which Scriptures are those?


divya said:


> Just to expound further,* tongues does not refer to unintelligible, undecipherable speech. The Scriptures speak against such things.*









I find it interesting that no one here is acknowledging the Day of Pentecost for what it really is: The day the Holy Ghost was sent down. 

Have you ever seen a _drunken _person in full control of themselves?

If the men moved by the Holy Ghost were in control of themselves, the witnesses there wouldn't have been amazed or in doubt of what they just saw. Those who witnessed wouldn't have mocked, saying "These men are full of new wine." (Acts 2:13) and Peter wouldn't have stood up to them to reply "be this known unto you, and harken to my words: for these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day." (Acts 2:14).

In Matthew 6, God is asking us to not repeat prayers as a ritual.  I take it that you mean when someone yields to the Spirit of God and utters, they are being repetitious? That is not the case, for every time God moves it is different. In this situation, the Holy Ghost is in the role of Intercessor and communicating to God through us, thus the "babble" that you are referring to. 


divya said:


> In fact, Jesus taught us how to pray and gave instruction on these matters.
> 
> *Matthew 6:7* _But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. _ The Greek word for “repetitions” here is _battalogeo_, which translates to _babbling, stammering, or chattering_.  Here is in interesting explanation:
> 
> _In Matthew 6:7 Jesus said, "But when ye pray, use not vain [or `meaningless'] repetitions, as the pagans do...." The phrase "vain repititions" is the Greek word battalogeo. The verb logeo means "to speak," and the prefix batta is not even a word. It is a figure of speech that in English we call an onomatopoeia--the naming of something by a vocal imitation of the sound it makes. For example, we say that a bee goes buzz, or a zipper goes zip, or a plane goes whish. Those aren't words, they're onomatopoetic figures of speech. Well, batta isn't a word either. What Jesus is literally saying in Matthew 6:7 is, "When you pray, don't say batta, batta, batta--the sound of the stammering, stuttering gibberish that the pagans offer to their gods. The Father isn't interested in that kind of communication." So, we are to pray intelligibly and "with the understanding" (1 Cor. 14:15). http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg1871.htm_





Here, you are referring to the 9 Fruits of the Spirits vs works of the Flesh. The Fruits of the Spirt are the qualities someone who has God living in them, through the Holy Spirit, _should have_ according to Galations 5.  *This is different from when the Holy Ghost is moving and we yield to the Holy Ghost*  Someone who has God living in them shouldn't yield to the Flesh but to the Spirit, which makes their walk a spiritual one.

At the same token, when someone is moved by the Holy Ghost and reacts, that's the Spirit's effect on the Flesh. Now I will say some people will overreact, but that doesn't mean they didn't feel the intensity of God.


divya said:


> This makes much sense. If anyone has ever heard the babbling and stammering of individuals who claim to catch the spirits of  certain non-Christians gods and goddesses, it is strikingly similar to the babbling and stammering of those who claim have caught the Holy Spirit. This should not be the case. *The presence of the Holy Spirit is always different from that which is not of God. The fruits of the Spirit include temperance (self-control)*. One must be able to control speech and as noted earlier, to interpret and understand for it to be the Spirit of God.



I agree! I always am challenged by your posts, but I sincerely hope you are not implying anyone here is being deceitful.  

God Bless you, too. 



divya said:


> Whenever God creates something good and pure, Satan - the master of deceit - comes up with a counterfeit to defeat the purposes of God. *Here it is important to recognize that speaking in tongues refers to languages that others can understand for the spreading of the gospel and edification of others. Anything else is a counterfeit.*..
> 
> God bless.


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## divya (Jun 21, 2009)

Laela said:


> I agree.
> 
> * It's been addressed in this thread there is a distinction between speaking in tongues and being moved by the Holy Ghost to utter.* A lot of Believers, like myself, mistakenly make see the two as interchangeable. I am not ashamed to say I was not quite right.



Interesting.  I believe in speaking in tongues (languages), but not in what some Christians call utterances that don't have any understandable meaning. 




> Which Scriptures are those?



The verses in the chapters listed. I believe a number of them were listed earlier, so I didn't want to post them again. I don't mind though, if you would like...




> I find it interesting that no one here is acknowledging the Day of Pentecost for what it really is: The day the Holy Ghost was sent down.
> 
> Have you ever seen a _drunken _person in full control of themselves?
> 
> If the men moved by the Holy Ghost were in control of themselves, the witnesses there wouldn't have been amazed or in doubt of what they just saw. Those who witnessed wouldn't have mocked, saying "These men are full of new wine." (Acts 2:13) and Peter wouldn't have stood up to them to reply "be this known unto you, and harken to my words: for these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day." (Acts 2:14).



Yes, those who were _mocking_ tried to claim that they were drunken simply because they gain the ability to speak other _languages_ so quickly. However, nothing here mentions anything about people falling all over the ground and uttering things that others could not understand. Others were in shock because of the sudden linguistic abilities...



> In Matthew 6, God is asking us to not repeat prayers as a ritual.  I take it that you mean when someone yields to the Spirit of God and utters, they are being repetitious? That is not the case, for every time God moves it is different. In this situation, the Holy Ghost is in the role of Intercessor and communicating to God through us, thus the "babble" that you are referring to.



I agree with you to a certain extent but it does seem like the verse goes beyond ritualistic prayers when one reads the Greek. The term does not just deal with repetition but also meaningless, unintelligible speech. Since "batta" isn't a work in Greek, it does seem like it refer to undecipherable speech. It also may derive from the Aramaic word "battal" meaning "useless, idle," particularly since Aramaic was Jesus' language.



> Here, you are referring to the 9 Fruits of the Spirits vs works of the Flesh. The Fruits of the Spirt are the qualities someone who has God living in them, through the Holy Spirit, _should have_ according to Galations 5.  *This is different from when the Holy Ghost is moving and we yield to the Holy Ghost*  Someone who has God living in them shouldn't yield to the Flesh but to the Spirit, which makes their walk a spiritual one.
> 
> At the same token, when someone is moved by the Holy Ghost and reacts, that's the Spirit's effect on the Flesh. Now I will say some people will overreact, but that doesn't mean they didn't feel the intensity of God.



Why would the Source of the Fruits of the Spirit create in an individual, expressions that are not what He claims are the express of His presence? 



> I agree! I always am challenged by your posts, but I sincerely hope you are not implying anyone here is being deceitful.



No. I don't mean that people here are being deceitful - not at all. But only that the Devil is the master of deceit and that he attempts to create counterfeits of all the good that God does. Sometimes we can be sincerely deceived into believing that certain things are good and true, when they are not. It's because of the Devil, but God reaches us in His own time.

This is a touchy topic that I have generally left alone until now, because I know that people are sincere. However, much of what can be seen of the "catching of the Holy Spirit" so similarly mirrors possession by other spirits. This is in no way an attack an any individuals either. I simply believe that the Holy Spirit is distinct based on my understanding of the Scriptures.






> God Bless you, too.


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## Ramya (Jun 21, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I was asking you to explain how it's essential to the believer if not required of him.  That's what I meant by it being edifying.  I haven't read the new posts yet....so if this is a repeat, please disregard...I'll get to the posts tonight.



It wasn't toward you. I changed my mind because I was reminded where I was posting.


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## Laela (Jun 21, 2009)

ITA



divya said:


> This is a touchy topic.


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## chicacanella (Jun 21, 2009)

*Take this quiz and then you will know if you need to pray to God for baptism of The Holy Spirit and the gift to speak in heavenly tongues?*



** Are you a human being and have you ever sinned?*
** Have you ever faced a trial or tribulation?*
**If you have faced a trial or tribulation, then this means that there was some type of conflict that could not be easily solved?*
**If the situation could not be easily solved, then that means you lacked the power or strength to make it "go away?*

*If you have answered yes to any of the above questions, then you are a candidate for baptism of The Holy spirit and should seek the gift of tongues.*

*There have been points or times in my life as many, where even though I know how to pray, I may not know exactly what to say. These are the points in time that every human being is faced with BUT in my case, The Holy Spirit prays for me in the perfect will of God. When you pray in the perfect will of God, then your prayers have more power and you know for sure God is listening.  EVERYONE should seek baptism of The Holy Spirit and the gift to speak in heavenly tongues.*


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jun 22, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> *Take this quiz and then you will know if you need to pray to God for baptism of The Holy Spirit and the gift to speak in heavenly tongues?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is actually very interesting because you're giving a reason to seek this out.  In my stream of worship, people strive to live holy lives (I certainly fall short of that) and seek to give as a means to rising to a higher level of spirituality.  You're saying that this is also a way to attain this higher level and be edified and helped through this walk on earth.  I'd like folks to elaborate on their feelings/knowledge about this.  Thanks for this post...this is the second wind of it.


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## aribell (Jun 22, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> This is actually very interesting because you're giving a reason to seek this out. In my stream of worship, people strive to live holy lives (I certainly fall short of that) and seek to give as a means to rising to a higher level of spirituality. You're saying that this is also a way to attain this higher level and be edified and helped through this walk on earth. I'd like folks to elaborate on their feelings/knowledge about this. Thanks for this post...this is the second wind of it.


 
This is where I tend to believe that our experience of God is subjective, meaning that He strengthens us and makes Himself present to us all in different ways, according to the gifts that He's given us.  I think that everyone truly exercising the spiritual gifts God has put in them experiences the power of the Holy Spirit and closeness to God, whatever that gift may be.

_But_, Paul did say, "earnestly desire the best gifts, _but especially that you may prophesy_" (1 Cor. 12)  So I do agree that if there is a gift that we don't currently have that would benefit us spiritually that we can and should ask for it, though I don't believe that any gift can outdo the power of a holy life.  Or love, which Paul says is "the more excellent way."


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## chicacanella (Jun 22, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> This is actually very interesting because you're giving a reason to seek this out. In my stream of worship, people strive to live holy lives (I certainly fall short of that) and seek to give as a means to rising to a higher level of spirituality. You're saying that this is also a way to attain this higher level and be edified and helped through this walk on earth. I'd like folks to elaborate on their feelings/knowledge about this. Thanks for this post...this is the second wind of it.


 
*Yes, there is a reason to seek out having the ability to speak in tongues! *

*You've got it buddy! If you are human, you can strive to live holy lives only through submitting yourself to the spirit of God. You know the scripture, "not by strength, nor by power but my spirit." *

*In your human strength, there are going to be times when you don't even know what to pray for or who to pray for BUT when you pray in the perfect will of God, you are praying for exactly what needs to be prayed for. Actually, it's The Holy Spirit saying what needs to be said in the most perfect way that will never fall short.*


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## chicacanella (Jun 22, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> This is where I tend to believe that our experience of God is subjective, meaning that He strengthens us and makes Himself present to us all in different ways, according to the gifts that He's given us. I think that everyone truly exercising the spiritual gifts God has put in them experiences the power of the Holy Spirit and closeness to God, whatever that gift may be.
> 
> _But_, Paul did say, "earnestly desire the best gifts, _but especially that you may prophesy_" (1 Cor. 12) So I do agree that if there is a gift that we don't currently have that would benefit us spiritually that we can and should ask for it, though I don't believe that any gift can outdo the power of a holy life. Or love, which Paul says is "the more excellent way."


 
*I understand what you are saying but I would also like to add that what if like many Christians, they aren't to the point where there spiritual gifts are fully manifest. How would they even know what to pray for after they've prayed for 3 hours and would like to pray more but can think of nothing else? This is when  The Holy Spirit comes in and prays for those things you  as a human would not even know to pray of.*

*And as you quote Paul, he says earnestly desire the best gifts especially that you may prophesy. Besides the gift of prophecy, one of the best gifts is to be able to have The Holy Spirit speak to through you in Heavenly tongues. *

*Have any of you members suspected that something was going on with one of your loved ones but didn't know what to ask God for? Or how about there being some huge event about to take place that would devestate hundreds of lives-God can use The Holy Spirit to speak through you in pray in His perfect will. Or how about you just have exhausted yourself speaking in English and coming up with things to pray for but inside you know more could be said, you just can't think of it? That's where The Holy Spirit comes in.  *

*At one point, I didn't understand the importance but now after going through so much, I'm so glad I have this gift. If you seek it, you will be glad cause' trust me, life will throw you for a loop sometimes, but never The Holy Spirit.*


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 22, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> *Take this quiz and then you will know if you need to pray to God for baptism of The Holy Spirit and the gift to speak in heavenly tongues?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you are not wrong for your opinion... I'm not saying that... 
But in my opinion
this is completely lacking in truth (woah)

God listens to everyone's prayers... you should know before your prayer that he is listening... When did God every walk away? When did He ever not listen? 
I am not trying to clown you or anything, but this adds so much complexity to the simplicity of the unconditional love of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior. And when I hear people talk like this, I feel like it is slanderous to His name and His message... He doesn't want acts, He just wants your heart...
His yoke is easy, His burden is light...
stop trying to make it so heavy...


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 22, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> *In your human strength, there are going to be times when you don't even know what to pray for or who to pray for BUT when you pray in the perfect will of God, you are praying for exactly what needs to be prayed for. Actually, it's The Holy Spirit saying what needs to be said in the most perfect way that will never fall short.*



This makes sense... but the rest... I don't really think so...
I believe God has given me words to pray... in English... that were effective... and he knew those before I even opened my mouth... Why even bring in the rest? This whole thread is wrapped up in a human practice, a facade, a show... Why not just speak about Him being greater than us, because we fall short, even when we pray... Lets make it about Him, not about us and our acts.
I think sometimes since He is so big, we want to be big too, when really we are so little... precious to Him, but so little.


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## Laela (Jun 23, 2009)

YES.

I pray others can also experience this power.



chicacanella said:


> *]Have any of you members suspected that something was going on with one of your loved ones but didn't know what to ask God for? Or how about there being some huge event about to take place that would devestate hundreds of lives-God can use The Holy Spirit to speak through you in pray in His perfect will. Or how about you just have exhausted yourself speaking in English and coming up with things to pray for but inside you know more could be said, you just can't think of it? That's where The Holy Spirit comes in.  *


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## LatterGlory (Jun 23, 2009)

*The answers are in the bible!*

*My suggestion pray and ask God for understanding before you read,and don't limit yourself to just a verse read the context of the verse.*

(Mar 16:17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

(Act 2:4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act 10:46-48
(46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
(47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

(1Co 12:10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another _divers_ kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

1Co 14:39-40
(39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
(40) Let all things be done decently and in order.


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## chicacanella (Jun 23, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> you are not wrong for your opinion... I'm not saying that...
> But in my opinion
> this is completely lacking in truth (woah)
> 
> ...


 
I don't believe this is lacking in truth at all. I will find some scriptures to post for you.

But truthfully, the bible says that God does not listen to all prayers. I think this is hard for some to digest but it's true.  

"*For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses*" Matthew 6:14-15

"*God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble*" (James 4:6)

 31Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. John 9:31

Isaiah 59:1-2: Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Proverbs 15:29: The Lord is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.” 
We are to forgive as we have been forgiven.

Psalms 66: 17-19: For I cried to him for help, with praises ready on my tongue. He would not have listened if I had not confessed my sins. But he listened! He heard my prayer! He paid attention to it!

1 John 5:14 –15. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Also, in Psalms King David says, "Let my prayer be set before you as incense and in the evening I will lift my hands as a sacrafice." 

We actually had a good discussion on this but I will let you look at these scriptures before I go any further. Bnatural, you are so right. God loves us so much and so does Jesus Christ. It's clearly evident, this does not however mean that everyone's prayers are heard. Sin that is not willing to be dealt with can seperate a person's prayer's from being heard. Check out this scripture in Daniel.

Daniel 10:12(NLT) - Then he said, "Don't be afraid, Daniel. *Since the first day you began to pray for understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your request has been heard in heaven.* I have come in answer to your prayer. 

And yes, you are totally right BNatural He does want your heart but what is in your heart will come and show through your actions. He is with those who are lowly and contrite and I'm not sure how my post offended you or caught you off guard. The reason I am saying it is edifying for every believer to be able to pray in The Holy Spirit is because there will be times in every human being's life that you don't know what to say or what is actually going on: it's just part of being human. BUT when you are able to pray in The Holy Spirit, you are praying in the perfect will of God and know for sure your words are heard.

"And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints *according to the will of God."* Romans 8:26

I hope you can better understand what I am saying based on scriptures.


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## chicacanella (Jun 23, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> This makes sense... but the rest... I don't really think so...
> I believe God has given me words to pray... in English... that were effective... and he knew those before I even opened my mouth... Why even bring in the rest? This whole thread is wrapped up in a human practice, a facade, a show... Why not just speak about Him being greater than us, because we fall short, even when we pray... Lets make it about Him, not about us and our acts.
> I think sometimes since He is so big, we want to be big too, when really we are so little... precious to Him, but so little.


 
*BNatural, please take this to God in deep prayer.*

*You are already crying out to Him and asking Him to change you and for a deeper relationship. That's you seeking Him, His will, His face. Paul has said that we should also seek the good gifts God has to give; whether it be gifts of prophecy or tongues. When you speak in tongues you are building up yourself, which is good. At this moment, I have the gift of prophecy that is not developed but I pray in tongues and I know that as I do so, I am being built up/edified. As I am being edified, this gift that God has given me will help me to help others. So, yes I desire both the gift of tongues and the gift of prophecy in order to build up those in the church BUT God is using the tongues to build me up and bring out stir up those gifts. When I fast for a day or more days, when I travail in prayer all alone in my home, when I am obedient to the calling of The Holy Spirit and wake up at odd hours like 1 a.m. 4:15 a.m. or early in the morning to pray, this is not a facade. It's not so humans can clap or say, "Look at CC, praying in tongues." It's not about that and you so concisely pointed out why we need the gift of tongues: "because we fall short, even when we pray." So, even you yourself see that we fall short in our humanity, but God's spirit never fails.* 

*Lets make it about Him, not about us and our acts. When you pray in tongues, you are making it about him because let's face it, in our own humanity we are apt to seek things that aren't in God's will and are really just about us. Praying in God's will and letting The Holy Spirit speak through you makes it more about Him than what is usual said when we speak in our own tongue. It's not an act for me; it's about trying to become closer and built up and I know when The Holy Spirit speaks He is speaking in God's will.* 

*1*Follow the way of love and *eagerly desire spiritual gifts*, especially the gift of prophecy. *2*For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.[b] *3*But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. *4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself*, but he who prophesies edifies the church. *5*I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[c] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[d] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.


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## chicacanella (Jun 23, 2009)

Mrs G said:


> *The answers are in the bible!*
> 
> *My suggestion pray and ask God for understanding before you read,and don't limit yourself to just a verse read the context of the verse.*
> 
> ...


 
Thanks!
1Co 14:39-40
(39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, *and forbid not to speak with tongues.*


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## aribell (Jun 23, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> *I understand what you are saying but I would also like to add that what if like many Christians, they aren't to the point where there spiritual gifts are fully manifest. How would they even know what to pray for after they've prayed for 3 hours and would like to pray more but can think of nothing else? This is when The Holy Spirit comes in and prays for those things you as a human would not even know to pray of.*
> 
> *And as you quote Paul, he says earnestly desire the best gifts especially that you may prophesy. Besides the gift of prophecy, one of the best gifts is to be able to have The Holy Spirit speak to through you in Heavenly tongues. *
> 
> ...


 
Oh, I don't disagree with anything you said.  Sometimes it just seems like tongues is seen as the exclusive way to have more power in prayer, but I don't think that's true.  

_This is just from my experience_, but for instance, I have never received the gift of tongues, but I do have the gift of intercession.  This means that when I am praying for something, _the Spirit gives me insight into what to pray for.  I don't run out of things to pray because a part of that gift is the Spirit showing me what God would have done in that situation._  This is also praying "in the Spirit."

So, where someone with the gift of tongues might be at the end of him or herself and then begin praying in tongues, when I get to that point, the Lord gives me further insight into what to pray.  I know that it's not my own insight, but is part of that gift.  And I see Him move in the situations I've prayed for.

Because of my experience with the gift of intercession as well as other spiritual gifts and the scripture passages talking about the variety of gifts, I tend to believe that there are many ways the Lord chooses to give greater power to different believers in prayer and learning and growth and edification of the Body.  But I still believe, according to Paul's admonition, it's good to pray to receive other gifts as well, I just don't think believers should believe they are lacking something they need spiritually if they don't have a particular gift since Paul says mastering _love_ is even better than prophesying or speaking in tongues.


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## aribell (Jun 23, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> you are not wrong for your opinion... I'm not saying that...
> But in my opinion
> this is completely lacking in truth (woah)
> 
> ...


 


music-bnatural-smile said:


> This makes sense... but the rest... I don't really think so...
> *I believe God has given me words to pray... in English... that were effective... and he knew those before I even opened my mouth... Why even bring in the rest?* This whole thread is wrapped up in a human practice, a facade, a show... Why not just speak about Him being greater than us, because we fall short, even when we pray... Lets make it about Him, not about us and our acts.
> I think sometimes since He is so big, we want to be big too, when really we are so little... precious to Him, but so little.


 
Your comments remind me of this verse from James:  "Is anyone among you suffering?  Let him pray...And *the prayer of faith* will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up...*The prayer of a righteous person has great power* as it is working."  

It seems like you are saying that genuine faith is most important and that's what God hears.  I wholeheartedly agree.  The only thing about people seeking different spiritual gifts that can make me concerned sometimes is that I wouldn't want anyone to feel like because they don't currently have a particular gift that God doesn't hear them as well as He hears someone with a particular gift.  

I think a part of this is humility, being able to know and accept that even if God doesn't use me in the "showy" ways He might use other people, that that in no way means that my prayers are hindered in any way or that I am not as useful in His Kingdom.  

I speak of this because I have a friend who clearly has the gifts of administration and helps--you know, those gifts that no one goes "ooh and ahh" over.  But she felt she wanted something more "charismatic" and couldn't appreciate the depth of faith, obedience, and gifts that the Lord _did_ put in her.  Like Paul also says, "...the parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor."


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 23, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> I don't believe this is lacking in truth at all. I will find some scriptures to post for you.
> 
> But truthfully, the bible says that God does not listen to all prayers. I think this is hard for some to digest but it's true.
> 
> ...



Thanks, but... God hears everyone's prayers... He doesn't answer all of them the way we want, but he hears them all... He hears everything... I already know that he hears me, especially since I am saved and I believe he is my Lord and savior... Sin separates people from Christ. With His death and resurrection he closed the gap. He has always heard everyone's prayers. I could never bring myself to tell the kids that I teach at private school, or my own children when have them (Lord-willing) that God doesn't listen to them when they pray. If anyone listens, God does. I refuse to believe that when the woman that is being raped or when the child that goes hungry or that the man that loses his job... when they cry out, that God does not hear them. Yes he may allow certain things to happen, or he may say no, or wait, but he still hears your prayers...

*Jeremiah 33:3 “Call to Me and I will  answer you, and I will tell you great and mighty things, which you do not know.” *
* Zechariah 13:9 “. . . They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say . . . They are My people, And they will say . . . The LORD is my God.
*
I believe that He is my Lord and he will satisfy my needs, regardless of deeds or the things that I do or accomplish. This means that the Lord will hear my prayers just the same as the deacons or the pastor's wife, as long as my heart is in the right place.

*No matter what anyone else may have told you, salvation is not by works. Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly declares: “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Further, Titus 3:5 tells us: “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.”

John 5:24, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”*


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 23, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Your comments remind me of this verse from James:  "Is anyone among you suffering?  Let him pray...And *the prayer of faith* will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up...*The prayer of a righteous person has great power* as it is working."
> 
> It seems like you are saying that genuine faith is most important and that's what God hears.  I wholeheartedly agree.  The only thing about people seeking different spiritual gifts that can make me concerned sometimes is that I wouldn't want anyone to feel like because they don't currently have a particular gift that God doesn't hear them as well as He hears someone with a particular gift.
> 
> ...



Thanks i couldnt have said it better


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## Shanh30 (Jul 3, 2009)

"Then they said unto Him, What shall we do that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." --John 6:28, 29


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## Ladybelle (Jul 3, 2009)

I think that this is one of those topics that no one will ever agree on. Universal agreement does not neccessitate right or wrong, right is right and wrong is wrong. Spiritual maturity varies from person to person and a certain understanding of the word will yield different responses based on the person you are speaking with.

Hence, i don't try to "prove" what I know is true to those who don't neccessarily know or agree. If a man or woman seeks my opinion/knowledge - I give it. 

You do have to be saved to speak in tongues just like you have to be saved to be a Christian, not speaking in tongues does not make one unsaved- the only way to be saved is to confess Jesus is Lord, etc and so on and so forth. Nor do you have to be the "perfect" Christian to speak in tongues as there is no such thing.

Some people can get sick & believe God to be healed and have a wonderful testimony while others do not have the level of faith to rely on God for healing, they rely on western medicine. It doesn't make the one believing for a healing a believer and the person going to the Dr. a nonbeliever- it just different levels of faith. Some of us never move past the "I am saved" level of faith:

*1 Corinthians 3:2* I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able _to bear it_, neither yet now are ye able.

*Hebrews 5:13* For everyone who partakes _only_ of milk _is_ unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe

Suffice it to say, some believers will never exercise spiritual gifts, nor live up to the potential God gave us as believers.  They'll get to heaven and realize how much they missed the marked and how much more they could have done.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 3, 2009)

Sometimes G-d utilizes the gifts and talents he gave to man to give healing to man.  Some may receive supernatural healing through prayer and miracles whereas, others may receive healing through the gifts of medicine G-d gave the earthly doctor.  It is not always a matter of faith but of G-d's will.  

There will be some who have extra supernatural gifts and there will be those who develop the gifts of charity etc.  There are some who will have great earthly blessing materially and there will be those who will exhibit great love through their many sufferings.  All benefit this world if lived for G-d.  We have what G-d gives us.  We make up a body, a full body, not just all eyes, teeth, feet...but every little bit makes up the entire body.

The greatest is....

*<< 1 Corinthians 13 >> 
New American Standard Bible ©* *The Excellence of Love*

*1* If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. *2* If I have _the gift of_ prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. *3* And if I give all my possessions to feed _the poor,_ and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. 
*4* Love is patient, love is kind _and_ is not jealous; love does not brag _and_ is not arrogant, *5* does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong _suffered,_ *6* does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; *7* bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 
*8* Love never fails; but if _there are gifts of_ prophecy, they will be done away; if _there are_ tongues, they will cease; if _there is_ knowledge, it will be done away.[/URL] *9* [URL="http://biblebrowser.com/1_corinthians/13-9.htm"]For we know in part and we prophesy in part; *10* but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. *11* When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. *12* For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. *13* But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.


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## moonglowdiva (Jul 4, 2009)

*No, the Gift of Speaking in tongue is not my Spiritual Gift. I can't interpret either. I hope it doesn't make me any less of a christian. However, I do have a spiritual gift.*


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 4, 2009)

In thinking about this, I come back to this thread this morning.  What occurs to me is that this particular gift edifies the individual (mostly).  Although a personal relationship to G-d is essential, in my congregation, it's always been stressed that "We" are the congregation.  Our prayers are "Our Father," "We Believe," etc.  The stress is the entire Church as the community and individualism doesn't supercede as it does in protestant circles (for history's sake, no longer a magesterium and united 1 Church...other interp. develop on a regular basis).  I think *this is the crux of the misunderstanding with this type of issue*.  It would be important to protestants, very important.

Protestant churches emphasize the individual relationship to the extent that personal revelation, personal intepretation and understanding of the scripture is highly prized.   In my congregation, we arrive at those conclusions together, under a Magesterium, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  It's a slow, long process that makes interpretations over time and holds believers accountable to those interpretations and tenets of belief.

  It's in the approach to the faith between the various denominations that causes us either to seek out these gifts or not to seek out these gifts as an essential part of living it out.  For me, communion with G-d occurs with the eucharist and we receive the actual body and blood, consuming it.  Although there is a charismatic movement, most do not participate in any way in it.  If you don't have the actual eucharist, what would you seek?  Another manifestation or personal contact with G-d.  I guess the eucharist would be that personal connection....and speaking in tongues another.  

I never expected this thread to last so long.  It's been a great discussion and I thank all who participated.


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