# My Boss Tells Me NO MORE BUNS! How Can I Look My Best & Keep Hair Healthy?



## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

so i got ripped a NEW one after a work meeting today. my boss tells me she wants to put me up for a promotion but tells that my hair is "unprofessional" and that it "doesn't make me look my best with my hair slicked back" and that she needs me looking a certain way and "feeling confident" before she "moves forward with the (promotion) process." she went onto tell me how beautiful my hair looked when i wore it down at a company MLB event and "why don't i wear it like that all the time??" we have a corporate dinner tomorrow night and they (parents + boss) are mad that i'm not going to "press my hair" instead choosing to wear a bun. 

so, i run home to mommy and daddy and what happened? my parents co-signed: "that crunchy bun doesn't flatter your face..." "your roots stick up"  "...you used to wear your hair down more often do that." blah, blah, blah...

another co-worker: "....well, it looks okay to me, but..."

right now i'm SO FRUSTRATED i could cry. am i making too much of all of this? am i not seeing something? i know i look better with my hair down and straightened but i'm not sure how to keep my hair healthy, keep my body healthy and keep myself and my hair looking its best at the same time! right now i'm just mad.


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## Reecie (Feb 3, 2010)

WHAT????  Wow girl.  I feel your pain and frustration. Now before I go off the deep end, please tell me....are you a model, hostess, actress, dancer... basically something where you get paid for your "look"? If so, I can understand your boss' request because your pay is based on your appearance....and what appearance the company wants represented.

HOWEVER (BRIEF PAUSE).............. if you are doing your thang at your job (not appearance related), she has NO damn business telling you want to do with your hair. Let's say..for argument purposes...that you are the best marketing director for a company... what the hell does your *job performance* have to do with your bun (as long as it is neat and professional?).

Please tell us more details about your industry...cause waiting is making me heated! Oh, do you have a picture of your alleged "unprofessional bun"? :mob:


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## yardyspice (Feb 3, 2010)

This is too much of an infringement, isn't it? A bun is the epitome of staid and business like to me. It just seems as if there is no decision that your job thinks you can make on your own.


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## Aisling~Siahbon (Feb 3, 2010)

I know I'm dealing with a similar situation... "If you wanna move up.. change your hair"... It's so frustrating.. and then for your boss to come right out and say it .. That's like a slap in the face. They don't understand that they are trying to get in the way of your personal goals and although career and financial gain is important so is personal growth.
Don't get frustrated treat it as an opportunity for creative problem solving. How will you apease them.. Get that promotion AND continue acheiving your goals for healthy hair? I will not tell you what to do with your hair b/c there are so many ladies on hear who are waay more knowledgeable than I am. But, for me I'm trying to get into tv reporting and I'm natural. I have been researching the looks of other reporters who are my role models... and getting great advice from LHCF
 I am going to invest in a half wig and make it look as seamless as possible.. and I might do sew ins b/c I know I can retain legnth that way I'm also changing my regimen to balance what I'm doing to have to look a certain way.. hope this kind of helps... If nothing else at least you can vent hear.. and the ladies here understand.


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## WesternEyes (Feb 3, 2010)

what does your hair have to do with your job??


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## halee_J (Feb 3, 2010)

Aisling~Siahbon said:


> I know I'm dealing with a similar situation... "If you wanna move up.. change your hair"... It's so frustrating.. and then for your boss to come right out and say it .. That's like a slap in the face. They don't understand that they are trying to get in the way of your personal goals and although career and financial gain is important so is personal growth.
> Don't get frustrated treat it as an opportunity for creative problem solving. How will you apease them.. Get that promotion AND continue acheiving your goals for healthy hair? I will not tell you what to do with your hair b/c there are so many ladies on hear who are waay more knowledgeable than I am. But, for me I'm trying to get into tv reporting and I'm natural. I have been researching the looks of other reporters who are my role models... and getting great advice from LHCF
> *I am going to invest in a half wig and make it look as seamless as possible.. and I might do sew ins* b/c I know I can retain legnth that way I'm also changing my regimen to balance what I'm doing to have to look a certain way.. hope this kind of helps... If nothing else at least you can vent hear.. and the ladies here understand.


 
Your hair has nothing to do with promotion,I thought that a bun was the corporate gold standard, its not like you're rockin' a rainbow colored mohawk. But IA with Aisling.There must be a solution to satisfy both sides.Half wigs are a great idea and they can be a protective style. So are sew-ins


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## aurora3140 (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't get it.  As yardyspice said, the bun is one of, if not the most professional hairstyle.  

Also, is your boss white?  Someone of color would understand some of the trouble that goes with achieving and maintaining a straight style in a healthy way.  

As has been suggested, you could always go for a weave or a wig.  If your boss doesn't like those options, I would explain why it would be so inconvenient to wear your real hair out daily.

This is so bizarre.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

Reecie said:


> WHAT????  Wow girl.  I feel your pain and frustration. Now before I go off the deep end, please tell me....are you a model, hostess, actress, dancer... basically something where you get paid for your "look"? If so, I can understand your boss' request because your pay is based on your appearance....and what appearance the company wants represented.
> 
> HOWEVER (BRIEF PAUSE).............. if you are doing your thang at your job (not appearance related), she has NO damn business telling you want to do with your hair. Let's say..for argument purposes...that you are the best marketing director for a company... what the hell does your *job performance* have to do with your bun (as long as it is neat and professional?).
> 
> Please tell us more details about your industry...cause waiting is making me heated! Oh, do you have a picture of your alleged "unprofessional bun"? :mob:



No, i don't have a "sexy" job, i'm in corporate america, basic daily wardrobe is black suits and pointy toe heels or its business casual. (however, i AM the ONLY black female in my company in the West region (CA, AZ, NV, WA, MT, ID, NM, WY, CO, UT, OR) *AND* the women in my industry tend to be attractive/fashionable/put a lot of time and work into their looks. (Our quartely meetings are like small scale fashion shows.)

I don't have a picture of my buns and I will say that i suck at making buns (i'm no DLewis.) *BUT* this pressure to wear my hair down is getting to me. *Even worse* when my parents agreed with my boss. my mom has ALWAYS hated my buns - she also thinks they're "unprofessional" on me because they "don't look good on me." then my dad compares me to the 3 or 4 black women he sees while out and about over the course of a week. he then brings up 2 acquaintances of mine who "always look good" in his opinion (1 has the thinnest most unhealthy hair that's constantly slicked back into a phony pony, the other has bleached, relaxed and hot combed her hair to the point where its broken off her head and is barely eye ball length - which is fine for them, just not my thing.) i love my parents and i know they just want me to put my best foot forward, but, i refuse to do that at the risk of damaging my hair.

a trusted friend/co-worker told me that i need to "step it up, especially at meetings." so now, i'm reeeally feeling the pressure *being the only black person*, competing with all these hair flowing done up women.

i'd love to be able to wear my hair down more often but it doesn't look good down & curly, i workout 2hrs/day 4 days a week and i'm trying to get to full MBL. i really have no idea what i can do to my hair to make it look good, other than bun it...and now i find out what people "really" think of my buns.


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## Crackers Phinn (Feb 3, 2010)

Wear your hair down until you get the promotion and stay on top of moisturizing your ends.  In the mean time, find some youtube updo tutorials so that you can start doing some protective styles that vary from your slicked back style.

You can be indignant after you can start spending that promotion money.


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## SexySin985 (Feb 3, 2010)

Reecie said:


> WHAT????  Wow girl.  I feel your pain and frustration. Now before I go off the deep end, please tell me....are you a model, hostess, actress, dancer... basically something where you get paid for your "look"? If so, I can understand your boss' request because your pay is based on your appearance....and what appearance the company wants represented.
> 
> HOWEVER (BRIEF PAUSE).............. if you are doing your thang at your job (not appearance related), she has NO damn business telling you want to do with your hair. Let's say..for argument purposes...that you are the best marketing director for a company... what the hell does your *job performance* have to do with your bun (as long as it is neat and professional?).
> 
> Please tell us more details about your industry...cause waiting is making me heated! Oh, do you have a picture of your alleged "unprofessional bun"? :mob:



ITA 110% with your entire post.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

aurora3140 said:


> I don't get it.  As yardyspice said, the bun is one of, if not the most professional hairstyle.
> 
> *Also, is your boss white? * Someone of color would understand some of the trouble that goes with achieving and maintaining a straight style in a healthy way.
> 
> ...



my boss is korean. i did the weave thing as a protective style/way to make my hair look great daily - however, my hair didn't seem to love it. my hair got significantly thinner and that's 1 of the reasons why i'm simply washing and bunning now. (plus i'm on a personal 6 month, no heat challenge which was supposed to end march 6th, but now....) i really don't know. i'm mad, i'm sad...all these opinions make me feel like i look ugly when i bun.


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## chavascandy (Feb 3, 2010)

I think it sucks that your boss is requiring you to wear your hair down and you're not in the entertainment industry. 
In the meanwhile invest in a half wig or roller set your own hair and wrap it at night or pincurl it.


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## yardyspice (Feb 3, 2010)

What state are you in? Check the laws to see if you can record someone without their permission because this sounds "lawsuity" to me. The best analogy is telling an Asian person that their hair looks too blah and it needs to be colored and textured. Isn't telling you to be another race?


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## arosieworld (Feb 3, 2010)

What if you just got a fake bun or a phony pony and bun it. A lot of people like buns if they are full and substantial. My mother hates my RL bun but I have a phony pony I wrap into a big bun and she loves it and says I look like a ballerina. See if they like it and then you can compromise.


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## Urban (Feb 3, 2010)

Can we see a picture of your bun? If you do post one, please post what it *regularly looks like.* Maybe the professional bunning ladies here can give you pointers on how to make your bun better without it being "crunchy" or your "roots sticking up."

IA with Cracker's Phinn on wearing your hair out untill you get the promotion.

Another option is to start another thread asking for professional non-bunning styles that still protect your hair. The ladies here have all sorts up their sleeves!

Good luck to you! I really hope you get that promotion!!


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

yardyspice said:


> This is too much of an infringement, isn't it? *A bun is the epitome of staid and business like to me. *It just seems as if there is no decision that your job thinks you can make on your own.


i thought so too. guess we're wrong.



Crackers Phinn said:


> Wear your hair down until you get the promotion and stay on top of moisturizing your ends.  In the mean time, find some youtube updo tutorials so that you can start doing some protective styles that vary from your slicked back style.
> 
> You can be indignant after you can start spending that promotion money.



Lol! Good idea Crackers Phinn! I'm going to have to find a way to wear it down a lot more often. And apparently *they don't like my hair in any form of updo *minus a curly ponytail.



chavascandy said:


> I think it sucks that your boss is requiring you to wear your hair down and you're not in the entertainment industry.
> In the meanwhile invest in a half wig or *roller set your own hair and wrap it at night or pincurl it.*



*i think i'm going to have to learn how to roller set.* i think that's probably going to be my best option. good thing i just bought macherieamour's rollersetting dvd. i know nothing about half-wigs...

a big part of my job is to entertain clients - i guess that means being eye candy for them, so maybe that's where the full court press comes from? also, as i mentioned before, most of the girls in my industry are the LV/Chloe bag carrying, trendy, full hair & makeup everyday type of girls (and none of them are black.) even though part of what i do requires entertaining clients an even bigger part of my job is meeting with my clients daily, running reports and surpassing my quartely goals - that's why i've never felt bad about wearing buns. does it feel awkward when all the other girls are so done up? a little, but *i just didn't know it was causing...a problem. or that my parents thought i looked bad. *


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## Vintageglam (Feb 3, 2010)

I have soooooo much to say on this subject.  This is a recycled issue again and again and again.  I do not think the bun is the issue.  One particular thing is never the issue.  You boss just aint straight talking.  Your hair is what it is and there are many ways to get around this situation.

Play the game - get promoted and then do what you want.

Btw I do believe that as black women we are partially to blame for this issue.  The fact that your parents are co-signing to me says it ALL.

ETA:  This is gonna be a HAWT topic so get ready OP.


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## Polyesterdiva (Feb 3, 2010)

Can you post a pic of the bun please?!?! LoL I'm dying to see it because I cannot imagine how a bun could look UnProfessional on anyone!!


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## melissa-bee (Feb 3, 2010)

This is so upsetting.  You're just going to have to play the game.


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## bluediamond0829 (Feb 3, 2010)

ITA with the other ladies.  I truly don't think your bun is the issue and that is really unprofessional of her to say that to you with her being a manager and someone that is supposed to lead and be a example to the department.  

Its just like if she was to telling you she doesnt like when you wear your hair in braids or dreads or a natural do.  It has nothing to do with your job performance and how you perform. 

If the real issue is that you need to step up then that has nothing to do with your hair holding you back.  She better be glad you do not report her behind to HR for discrimmination and for her being Asian of all things.  

I'm all for playing the game until it gets you promoted---but i dont believe this has anything to do with your hair.  

Unless the bun is not neat and nice like im thinking---but i still say this shouldnt keep you from getting promoted.  

A little off topic:
This kind of sounds like the Devil Wears Prada(not sure if you work in a fashion magazine industry and remember how the one lead actress changed her total look just to be able to get recognition at work by her manager).


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## Vintageglam (Feb 3, 2010)

OP do you work in PR, Advertising or Media?

Those are usually the careers where you appearance does have a lot to do with your job as you are selling a particular image.

The way I see its is this,  I agree with Crackerphinn - just do what you need for now and then do what the *** you want thereafter.  That said if you want to stay on top of the game what you must consider is that ultimately your clients/ customers will indirectly dictate their expectations which is something you can't really get around.  

Even legal careers are a bit like this.....


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

stellagirl76 said:


> I have soooooo much to say on this subject.  This is a recycled issue again and again and again.  I do not think the bun is the issue.  One particular thing is never the issue.  You boss just aint straight talking.  Your hair is what it is and there are many ways to get around this situation.
> 
> Play the game - get promoted and then do what you want.
> 
> ...



its definitely a multi-faceted issue. i think my boss wants me to look more like the other girls. my parents think i play down my looks when i'm at work because they incessantly bring up the fact that when i'm out with friends or on a date (when i had a boyfriend) that i do my hair and look great.

i suck at playing the game and i'm really struggling to figure out how to play it within this issue. 

please elaborate on why do you believe black women are partially to blame for this issue? i think that's an interesting take. 

one thing i'm sure of is that its interesting when you're the only black girl in a company where you've already witnessed "the old black tax in full effect" now add this on top of it. while i'm not trying to make it a black/non-black issue, the fact of the matter is I have curly hair and its not as easy to get it straight and done up as it is for some of my straighter haired peers. 

...or maybe i simply don't know how to style my hair because i do see a lot of siggy and profile pix here with straight, lush, gorgeous hair.

i'll work on a bun pic this weekend - tomorrow is the big event with my bosses boss. for which i'll be...bunned. no time to straighten - especially now that i'm frustrated and up late, venting on lhcf.


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## Vintageglam (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't think that BIG BAD BOSS is the problem.  I think that the system is the problem and the example that we have been setting as black women is the problem.

I think boss is just telling it as it is and trying to get her staff promoted.  Its not in Boss lady's interest not to have her staff progress as she also will not progress.  My guess is that Boss lady knows she is or soon will be up for promotion but usually one of the pre-requisites for that is that your own staff are also progressing.

We can attack boss all we like in this thread, but the facts remain that until society changes we gotta suck it up and play the system until we are in the positions of power to break it down.

OP I think you should listen to Boss lady, selectively filter what does not contradict your principles (within reason) and play the game accordingly.

Lets not get things out of context now.  You paid a LOT of money for your education and to get where you are so guess what you already made a few sacrifices so do not get hysterical and emotional now and sabotage yourself.  

There are so may Fotki's you can stalk for Inspiration until those promotion papers are signed.

If it were me I would have the hottest and hair health focus stylist on the case for the next few weeks and go out shopping for a few new bits.  

And for all those who don;t like the suggestions - this is the game - just like in high school - just like in the jungle.  The toughest survive and the rest get left behind.








bluediamond0829 said:


> ITA with the other ladies.  I truly don't think your bun is the issue and that is really unprofessional of her to say that to you with her being a manager and someone that is supposed to lead and be a example to the department.
> 
> Its just like if she was to telling you she doesnt like when you wear your hair in braids or dreads or a natural do.  It has nothing to do with your job performance and how you perform.
> 
> ...


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

stellagirl76 said:


> OP do you work in PR, Advertising or Media?
> 
> Those are usually the careers where you appearance does have a lot to do with your job as you are selling a particular image.
> 
> ...



my clients really like me. i'm one of the most recognized and well liked people in my geography and i think i'm respected because my clients don't look at me like "we'll listen to her because she's hawt, but we like her" ....and i think they think i bring something valuable to the table, professionally. 

my boss also really likes me, so i'm glad that she was "honest" with me. she wants me to shine in every way possible because she witnessed me being passed over for a promotion even though i "do three times more work then the others in my geography who ended up getting the promotion" (her words, not mine.) 

but, it comes back to hair. my clothes and shoes are fine, although i'm not in a dress everyday or in Theory suits, Marc Jacobs tops and Manolos, i still look nice. so the only area of difference is hair. most of the women in my company wear their hair down everyday - i'm the only one i've seen out here who doesn't.


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## Vintageglam (Feb 3, 2010)

And there we have it.  OP why do you make an effort outside work and not at work?  You boss wants you to look like the other girls (unfortunately) BC its called BRANDING.  You are repping your companmy so there are unwritten and unspoken conventions as to how to do that.  The ones that do so accordingly get promoted.  Look at the successful people and mirror them within your own boundaries and personal style.

Black women are partially to blame because we are the weave wearing, relaxer straightening etc etc ones who have completely conformed to the European ideal of beauty thus far.  Now that some are consciously making a move towards healthier hair practices we are being penalized for it in the same way that white women who do not want to starve themselves to look like Kate Moss are penalized.  This issue is Universal.  The trick is how to work within the constraints of the Politics.

OP I also think that if you don;t feel so confident styling your hair don;t sweat it.  I am there too, but I would advise getting help with it instead of burying your head in the sand.  

If the promotion is what you want then go get it.






wyldcurlz said:


> its definitely a multi-faceted issue. *i think my boss wants me to look more like the other girls. my parents think i play down my looks when i'm at work because they incessantly bring up the fact that when i'm out with friends or on a date (when i had a boyfriend) that i do my hair and look great.*
> *i suck at playing the game and i'm really struggling to figure out how to play it within this issue. *
> 
> please elaborate on why do you believe black women are partially to blame for this issue? i think that's an interesting take.
> ...


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## Vintageglam (Feb 3, 2010)

Op you do not wear your hair down everyday to look nice. There are other styling options. I would just advise you switch it up a little.

Also my advice.  Aim to look good everyday.  People always like to remember the days you are not on point.

Also as you say, you are great at your job but are being passed over for promotion.  Stop accepting second best and just play the game.




wyldcurlz said:


> my clients really like me. i'm one of the most recognized and well liked people in my geography and i think i'm respected because my clients don't look at me like "we'll listen to her because she's hawt, but we like her" ....and i think they think i bring something valuable to the table, professionally.
> 
> my boss also really likes me, so i'm glad that she was "honest" with me. she wants me to shine in every way possible because she witnessed me being passed over for a promotion even though i "do three times more work then the others in my geography who ended up getting the promotion" (her words, not mine.)
> 
> but, it comes back to hair. my clothes and shoes are fine, although i'm not in a dress everyday or in Theory suits, Marc Jacobs tops and Manolos, i still look nice. so the only area of difference is hair. most of the women in my company wear their hair down everyday - i'm the only one i've seen out here who doesn't.


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## Polyesterdiva (Feb 3, 2010)

I never did get a chance to give my opinion on this. 

Honestly. I'm not a big fan of buns. Yes they're professional, but they can look severe, homely, and unattractive (not always, but if they're slicked straight back then yes, to me!). You say your work enviroment is full of fashionistas, and it makes sense. Studies and life experience have proven again and again that more attractive men AND women have an easier time at work (though for women attractive/too sexy to be taken serious is a fine line). I also think society (even in a work enviroment) encourages a woman to look feminine and appealing always, though not overly sexy (not saying I agree, it's just what I've perceived). 

Another thing is that people often associate unattractive or unappealing looks with laziness, (i.e. those who are overweight, wont put on makeup, or wear that ultra crisp suit need to "try harder" or "invest in themselves more"). 

I dunno. These are just my thoughts and speculations. When I've worn my hair down at work in the past (at plain old Best Buy Computers) and did my makeup my bosses treated me better. It was like I was doing a better job even when I wasn't. 

So play the game. Rollerset, and enjoy your flowing hair. Like I said though, I'm biased against buns. 

Just...look your best.


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## MRJ1972 (Feb 3, 2010)

I agree with some of the other ladies...I would play their game....

Are you able to wear a wash n go?  If so, that may also be an option for tomorrow's meeting.


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## Polyesterdiva (Feb 3, 2010)

stellagirl76 said:


> Black women are partially to blame because we are the weave wearing, relaxer straightening etc etc ones who have completely conformed to the European ideal of beauty thus far.  Now that some are consciously making a move towards healthier hair practices we are being penalized for it in the same way that white women who do not want to starve themselves to look like Kate Moss are penalized.  This issue is Universal.  The trick is how to work within the constraints of the Politics..



Word on this! Attractive does usually mean "attractive by white european standards of beauty" in our society. It's a shame it's so rigid, but we're all forced to work in those constrains. 

I also had friend who hand to have 100 dollar singles removed for a job because braids were written in the companies policy to unprofessional.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

you hit the nail on the head stellagirl. its not that my boss is the bad guy here. nor are my parents. and unfortunately, as a black woman and a corporate minority, again, we have to stand out. sometimes that standing out means fighting stereotypes that we've never been, seen, looked or sounded like, but still. 

excuse the tangent above, anyway, my main problem is figuring out what to do wtih my hair right now. worse yet, there's little to nothing i can do for this big event tomorrow (make that, tonight!) i'm really wondering though, how to style natural hair that gets workout sweaty 3-4 days/week. even if i rearranged my workouts.

hypothetically, let's just say i stopped working out altogether...i'm STILL not sure how to style my hair in a manner that keeps it healthy, retains length and looks good monday thru friday (if not longer) - post wash.

like many of you have suggested, i'm going to have to do some lhcf, fotki and youtube research. and most likely, LEARN HOW TO ROLLERSET my hair straight. 

i was always told as a black woman i had to be at least 2 times better than my non-black counterparts to get the same recognition. i hate to see how this applies more and more, everyday to more and more segments of my life.



stellagirl76 said:


> I don't think that BIG BAD BOSS is the problem.  I think that the system is the problem and the example that we have been setting as black women is the problem.
> 
> I think boss is just telling it as it is and trying to get her staff promoted.  Its not in Boss lady's interest not to have her staff progress as she also will not progress.  My guess is that Boss lady knows she is or soon will be up for promotion but usually one of the pre-requisites for that is that your own staff are also progressing.
> 
> ...


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## Nice Lady (Feb 3, 2010)

yardyspice said:


> What state are you in? Check the laws to see if you can record someone without their permission because this sounds "lawsuity" to me. The best analogy is telling an Asian person that their hair looks too blah and it needs to be colored and textured. Isn't telling you to be another race?


 
The law shouldn't be brought into everything especially with the economy and having to gain a new job with advent of a suit(i.e., the business world is small and word may get over to another employer preventing you from moving forward). So, I would listen to her and get halfwigs like everyone is saying so that you maintain your daytime job--don't wear your hair down as soon as you get your hair wigs.


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## chavascandy (Feb 3, 2010)

*i think i'm going to have to learn how to roller set.* i think that's probably going to be my best option. good thing i just bought macherieamour's rollersetting dvd. i know nothing about half-wigs...

a big part of my job is to entertain clients - i guess that means being eye candy for them, so maybe that's where the full court press comes from? also, as i mentioned before, most of the girls in my industry are the LV/Chloe bag carrying, trendy, full hair & makeup everyday type of girls (and none of them are black.) even though part of what i do requires entertaining clients an even bigger part of my job is meeting with my clients daily, running reports and surpassing my quartely goals - that's why i've never felt bad about wearing buns. does it feel awkward when all the other girls are so done up? a little, but *i just didn't know it was causing...a problem. or that my parents thought i looked bad. * [/QUOTE]

I truely understand you Wyldcurlz. I used to work at Ulta and we had to come to work looking like a beauty queen. Showing up other wise wasn't an option. All I can say is fake it till you make it. That dvd that you bought should help you a lot. Who know after you learn how to roller set, maybe you can find a sassy updo to wear.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

Polyesterdiva said:


> I never did get a chance to give my opinion on this.
> 
> Honestly. I'm not a big fan of buns. Yes they're professional, but they *can look severe, homely, and unattractive *(not always, but if they're slicked straight back then yes, to me!). You say your work enviroment is full of fashionistas, and it makes sense. Studies and life experience have proven again and again that more attractive men AND women have an easier time at work (though for women attractive/too sexy to be taken serious is a fine line). I also think society (even in a work enviroment) encourages a woman to look feminine and appealing always, though not overly sexy (not saying I agree, it's just what I've perceived).



Yup, i heard those words today from my Mom - add Matronly to that list and you've got her verbatim. And I understand, i'm not a fan of the bun either. its just easier for me to slick it back with some condish and pull it into a bun.



Polyesterdiva said:


> Another thing is that people often associate unattractive or unappealing looks with laziness, (i.e. those who are overweight, wont put on makeup, or wear that ultra crisp suit need to "try harder" or "invest in themselves more").



good points, i have a friend who doesn't wear makeup at all and a co-worker told her she should put a little more effort in. what you're saying makes sense.



Polyesterdiva said:


> I dunno. These are just my thoughts and speculations. *When I've worn my hair down at work in the past *(at plain old Best Buy Computers) *and did my makeup my bosses treated me better. It was like I was doing a better job even when I wasn't.*
> 
> So play the game. Rollerset, and enjoy your flowing hair. Like I said though, I'm biased against buns.
> 
> Just...look your best.



very interesting observation. its like some sort of psychological experiment. hmm, i really wonder how i would/will be treated if i wore my hair not in a bun and just did it up the way the other girls do. hmm, something to think about. thanks, Polyesterdiva!


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## coolsista-paris (Feb 3, 2010)

I understand you and this is something that us black women go through all the time.This is to me a certain discrimination!!!! Where i work we have to look really good. Professional suits, hair tied back if its long, if its short we may wear in down,all that stuff+. and they ask us to make a bun if its attached BUT i sometimes wear twists i need growth, thickness for that: PROTECTIVE STYLES.  so dont do this, this doesnt look good,and this and that...FED UP. our hair has nothing to do with caucasiens hair so cant they understand us?????? do we have to take it up to international news as discrimination.


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## Mizz Diamonds (Feb 3, 2010)

This reminds me of that glamour magazine incident. Or that episode of Living Single when Kyle was told to cut his hair if he wanted to be promoted or something like that.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

Mizz Diamonds said:


> This reminds me of that glamour magazine incident. Or that episode of Living Single when Kyle was told to cut his hair if he wanted to be promoted or something like that.



which glamour magazine incident? i'm not familiar with it. sidenote: i loved living single!

yah, it just stinks that non-black people don't understand that (generally) textured hair is not quickly nor easily straightened and stylized. for instance, when my boss told me "you're hair looked sooo pretty at the baseball game, do it like that." i replied - well that took hours. i don't think it registers with them.


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## LoveLiLi (Feb 3, 2010)

OP, I would wear my hair down for certain events and meetings to appease her. A bun can look either elegant or frumpy - you have to be sure you're making it look presentable.

However, I would also outline the straightening process to her so she understands it's not as simple as she may think and your hair can be messed up very easily (perspiration, humidity etc).

I'll never forget a girl in college who had natural hair. A friend of hers (a white guy) poured water on her head as a joke; it may have been after a track meet. She made him come to her room and do her hair from start to finish so he would understand to_ never_ do that again. 

If only you could get your boss to do that so she would shut up, lol. But since you can't, see if you can come to a compromise.


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## ajoyfuljoy (Feb 3, 2010)

I think you should go to HR about this. How can she tell you how to wear your hair?..bunch of mess!


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## ♥Lamaravilla♥ (Feb 3, 2010)

I wish a ho would tell me how to wear my hair. If it fits within the dress code policies then why the deuce is she getting on your case about it? Do what's best for you OP, but I for damn sure would be wearing *MY* hair how *I* want to wear it.


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## BostonMaria (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm confused but here's my dos centavos 
leave your hair down, get promoted, put your hair back up

I'd love to know where you work


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## Aspire (Feb 3, 2010)

I am so sorry this happened to you.  I can tell you that I experience a similar issue young in my career.

How you handle this is going to be based on your experience in the workplace.  Here are some options you might consider . . .

Option 1 - Thank her for her feedback, then tactfully remind your boss that her statements are illegal and discriminatory. Let her know that your hard work, diligence, and commitment to your job are what qualifies you for a promotion - not your hair.   Then explain to her that if she considers you a strong enough employee to promote, she should know that your excellent record will only benefit her in the long run. After all, why would she want to promote someone of less talent, just because she liked their hair?

Option 2 - Thank her fer her feedback.  Change your hair, get the promotion, and then go back to wearing you hair the way you always do (or not).

Option 3 - Make an appointment with HR and do number 1 in the HR offices.

If your hair does not prohibit you from doing your job in a safe, sanitary, and productive way then she has no right to make those statements.  She sounds incredibly immature with little work experience behind her. She probably thinks she is helping you. If I am wrong in that statement and she is an experienced women making those comments, then option 3 would be _my_ choice.  

Whatever you decide to do, you must do the right thing for YOU - not her and not a job.  Jobs come and go, but our esteem stays with us.  You have to step back from the situation, assess, and decide based on you.


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## Renewed1 (Feb 3, 2010)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Wear your hair down until you get the promotion and stay on top of moisturizing your ends. In the mean time, find some youtube updo tutorials so that you can start doing some protective styles that vary from your slicked back style.
> 
> You can be indignant after you can start spending that promotion money.


 

Totally agree!  Although, she shouldn't be approaching you about your hair; but I digress yt ppl are like that!! ! 

But wear your hair down until you get the promotion.  Heck! you can even invest in some Lacefront wigs (the good kind); to protect your REAL hair.


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## hair4romheaven (Feb 3, 2010)

are wigs out of the question?


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## Sasha299 (Feb 3, 2010)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I think you should go to HR about this. How can she tell you how to wear your hair?..bunch of mess!





lamaravilla said:


> I wish a ho would tell me how to wear my hair. If it fits within the dress code policies then why the deuce is she getting on your case about it? Do what's best for you OP, but I for damn sure would be wearing *MY* hair how *I* want to wear it.



In Corporate America going to HR with minor (to them issues) gets you labeled as a problem and if there is something more serious you will be the one to go. Honestly what they'll do is tell her manager that her appearance does not violate the dress code and leave it at that. THEN do you think that her manager will go to bat for her? 
Also, if your manager is acting as a mentor they will tell you something like this because it is a fairytale that hard work gets you there. In Corporate America its hard work AND playing the game that gets you where you want to be. I have seen hard working people passed over for positions because of minor things and people who just work get promoted because they play the game. If you are looking at this like a career where you want to get ahead then you need to play the game and not get put on the sidelines.


PS Can you do a wash n Go for tonight?


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## Jazzmommy (Feb 3, 2010)

Huh? Wow.. hugs to you... I know of a lot of corporate women who wear buns.. but then again, every Company has its' own culture.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 3, 2010)

Wow...I am just shocked that a *bun* in a corporate, business enviornment would be a problem.


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## beans4reezy (Feb 3, 2010)

Number one, her request for you to change your appearance in order to get a promotion doesn't sound legal.  Number two: since when are buns unprofessional? On the contrary, the corporate environment calls for you to wear your hair pulled back, not loose.

Sounds like this is a personal request from her and she gets her jollies off of seeing your hair out.  It sounds like she is more concerned about being able to run her hands through your hair if anything.  I can bet my botton dollar that this is not a request from HR. In fact, I'd report her.


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## AfroKink (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm going to put it out there since you alluded to it yourself. Maybe it's not that you wear buns, maybe it's how your buns look. It's also possible that it's not just your look, but how you present yourself in general and hair is what she used as an example.

I would meet with boss lady and tell her that I spent some time thinking about what she said and analyzing how I present myself.  I would tell her that I want to work on this issue. I would explain to her that since I have naturally curly hair, it's difficult to wear it straight everyday, without damaging it and this is the reason I wear buns.  I would tell her that I found these pictures of other buns and up-dos online [insert pictures of beautiful LHCF buns] and say I was wondering which of these she thinks would be most appropriate.  I would tell her that I would try to intersperse 'down' styles more often*.  I would ask if there are other aspects of my appearance or job performance that I can work on. I would finish by thanking her for her time and help.

*I might not actually wear my hair straight, but I would invest in some quality half wigs or lacefronts that are the same length as my hair.


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## Kayluv (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm sorry..I might have missed it, but what industry are you in?


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## bravenewgirl87 (Feb 3, 2010)

*Is your boss white?
My SO is a regional manager at a Fortune-500 company and I KNOW the first thing he would tell you to do is contact an HR attorney... stat. Buns are very professional hairstyles. They have been for years. For her to hold a hairstyle over your head is ignorance at best and she needs to be fired. I personally would not waste my time with the company. I would continue to wear my hair the same way, report her to HR, and start looking for a new job and a lawyer. 

If there's any reason I don't want to work with women... this one is it.
*


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## Mizz Diamonds (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> which glamour magazine incident? i'm not familiar with it. sidenote: i loved living single!
> 
> yah, it just stinks that non-black people don't understand that (generally) textured hair is not quickly nor easily straightened and stylized. for instance, when my boss told me "you're hair looked sooo pretty at the baseball game, do it like that." i replied - well that took hours. i don't think it registers with them.


 
A white Glamour magazine editor said to a room of people how natural black hairstyles were a don't she said how afros were a nono and dreadlocks were dreadful and it was shocking that people think its acceptable, and how those* "political hairtyles"* had to go 

http://www.racialicious.com/2008/03/04/glamour-magazine-on-women-race-and-beauty/

http://jezebel.com/289268/glamour-editor-to-lady-lawyers-being-black-is-kinda-a-corporate-dont


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## Kayluv (Feb 3, 2010)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *Is your boss white?*
> 
> *If there's any reason I don't want to work with women... this one is it.*


 

I am glad that I am not the only one who prefers to work with with men.  I really hate saying that, but so many women bring their insecurities and cattiness into the work place.   However, I am unsure if this is really the case with this women.  Because I don't know what industry you are in, it is hard to make a judgement call.  Unfortunately, some industries place a higher priority on appearance vs. others.


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## bravenewgirl87 (Feb 3, 2010)

Kayluv said:


> I am glad that I am not the only one who prefers to work with with men.  I really hate saying that, but so many women bring their insecurities and cattiness into the work place.   However, I am unsure if this is really the case with this women.  Because I don't know what industry you are in, it is hard to make a judgement call.  Unfortunately, some industries place a higher priority on appearance vs. others.


*
I actually prefer working with women (more specifically, black). I don't like working with men. BUT! If there was ever a reason to NOT want to work with women, this would be it.*


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## Chevelure618 (Feb 3, 2010)

Hey Wyld, *listen to this* because I often think of it reading these PS posts but never say anything.

  Those of us who are career women of course want to "look our best".  Here's the thing about Protective Styles.  We are at work say about 10 hours per day right?  Maybe a little more, maybe a little less.  When we go home we are home not working 14 hours maybe a little more orless.  So why do we all trip about doing PS during the day.  I think it makes more sense to wear PS when we get home then wear the hair out during the day.  We're home more than at work.  

Or, you could do the style where it's half up and half down.  Think about it.  During the day isn't it also a good idea to let the scalp breathe?  PS all the time is no good.  It's not psychologically good either.  I think if the ends are moisturized and DC'd regularly that should be enough. 

 Comments please.


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## Supervixen (Feb 3, 2010)

Although I think it's dubious, changing your hair is a small thing to do to make more $$$ and get a (much deserved) promotion at work.  PLUS, I appreciate a straight shooter, so can you wear a weave?  Or could you put it in a clip, so that your hair still shows, but it's off your neck.  Then in your fashion show meetings, could you take it down?

Again, I think it's dubious, but I wanted my response to be solution focused.


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## JJamiah (Feb 3, 2010)

Personally I think the situation is truly a violation of ones personal choices.
If I have been with this company for a while and want to go further I'd half wig it and Lace front it all the way to the top!

My SO is going through a similiar situation. Yet his is his front tooth which got damaged in a car accident. He too is the only AA at his Job. I told him he has to put his best foot and mouth (including his teeth) forward. Keep shaven and appropriate looking.

I do believe it is such a small change for that promotion and the extra $$$$  won't hurt and while I know your principles should never be compromised, at the end of the day you can always have a bun under your Half wig or lace front I do!!! LOL

You show them what your made of! And forgive their ignorance if that is what it is.


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## Rastafarai (Feb 3, 2010)

Bravenewgirl, her boss is Korean. 

OP, it sounds like you work for a "Devils Wears Prada" type of boss/firm/company. If you intend on growing with this company/firm then do what you must to "fit in" until you can call your own shots. Even if you obtain the promotion you will still be required to maintain that image. Unfortunately you're going to have to adapt to the company/firm culture if you wish to get ahead there. If it compromises a part of you then its time to look for a new job. Just being real.


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## Lola Laughs (Feb 3, 2010)

stellagirl76 said:


> *Play the game - get promoted and then do what you want*.


 
ITA.  Normally I'd get indignant about stuff like this and start fuming about all kinds of laws and ethics being violated, etc. etc.  But you know what--it really is just one part of the big corporate game--and half the battle is just finding out where folks stand.  After that it's just a matter of strategy---and you sound like you're smart and clever enough to find a solution that doesn't entirely compromise yourself.  

Hang in there and laugh all the way to the bank.


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## LuvLiLocks (Feb 3, 2010)

Ok, my 2 cents?, I think your boss is dead wrong for trying to tell you how to wear your hair, it shouldn't matter as long as you are doing your job, which you obviously are. 

However, if there is a certain image that she is going for, and you are interested in the promotion, and don;t feel like going into battle, how about getting a nice weave?


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## Lady S (Feb 3, 2010)

There's this saying, "dress for the position that you want."  Having said that, it's hard to comment without seeing your bun.  


Here's what I would do.  Get some of those fake bun pieces.  Not the overly elaborate ones, just a simple dome piece.  But I'd also wear my hair out as well.  3 to 4 days a week wear it out, then maybe once or twice give your hair a break and wear it up in a bun.  Or you could do the half wig thing as well.  

Whatever you do, make sure your keeping your performance up as well.

ETA: Also make she's not just blowing smoke up your butt.  The managers at my work are notorious for this.  They make up some random excuse but it's really because they decided to promote their favorite instead.


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## Maynard (Feb 3, 2010)

Play the game.

Get paid.


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## schipperchow1 (Feb 3, 2010)

Although it may be unfair, the fact is that people do respond to our physical appearance.  I know that if I have a presentation or anything where I need to be around clients & other key stakeholders, I make sure to turn everything up a notch.  If my hair isn't cooperating for me to wear it out or half up, I  will wear a bun with my jeweled hairsticks & a few strands strategic placed around my face.  Also, is it possible that you act more confident when your hair is out?  I know for me, psychologically, bun means sit down & focused work.  But when my hair is out, the game is on!
However, having worked in HR, the appearance issue is a fine line.  As a previous poster mentioned, the culture seems to promote thus prefer fashionista women.  Is this a battle you want to fight?  Other corporate cultures want the women looking as de-sexed as possible.  Consider researching the fashion cultures of other companies and try practicing other bun styles.  Good luck!


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## Kurlee (Feb 3, 2010)

i cant believe that in 2010, hair is standing in the way of a promotion.  Gender wise and "race" wise, I find that appalling.


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## butterfly_wings (Feb 3, 2010)

I haven't read the whole thread but is there not a way that you can come to a middle ground buy still vearing your bun but slicking back your hair with some natural aloe vera gel, or canerow your hair back and leave the ponytail free?

A protion would be great, you have to decide what means more to you, your hair or your job?

Good luck though


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## RedVelvet310 (Feb 3, 2010)

I say instead of wearing your hair down, start practicing on doing nicer buns. Do your buns look like you threw it on your head first thing in the morning? Maybe your boss just wants your hair to look "done"...done doesn't necessarily mean wearing your hair down, but like you spent extra time on it.  Maybe the only time your boss saw your hair look "done" was when it was down, so show her that hair can be "done" (possible done BETTER) if it's in a nice bun, braid it, add barrettes, etc etc... get your promotion, stay on your HHJ and improve your styling skills


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## newbiemom (Feb 3, 2010)

The truth of the matter is as a woman we have more required of us in the workplace. We normally have to project a certain image. They maybe want you to project a more youthful appearance.  I think you should  bend a little to get your promotion and then see if you can incorporate some different buns to your look, But I would mention it to HR once my promotion  was secured thta they should either inform you of what thier grooming requirements prior to hire or be quiet about [


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## Highly Favored8 (Feb 3, 2010)

WOW are you serious? Your boss said that to you. Sad. IDK what advice to give, just disturbed over the fact the boss said "no more buns". What nerve.


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## Chameleonchick (Feb 3, 2010)

HUH??? I don't understand this one at all. What does a hair have to do with work, and I think the bun is one of the most professional hairstyles.


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## Ang! (Feb 3, 2010)

I feel for you and I am sorry that you are in this predicament - not fun:-(!

My two cents:  we may say this is race related - but I ran across a similar incident in 2000. . .  I started out as a Personal Shopper with a upscale department store.  A high end hotel General Manager approached me about his new General Manager for their fine dining restaurant.  She was a 5'11 red headed white woman.  He gave me a budget of $1500 and asked if I could whip her into a shape - he wanted a complete make over - her hair especially - it was huge and teased!  
Being naive and not realizing that he had not had a thorough discussion with her at the time - I jumped at the chance to do this . . . well she was not aware of all the requirements and flipped when she found out.  She thought the $1500 was a wardrobe stipend - not a makeover.
The hotel felt she was the right person for the job - but she needed a new look.  
I don't have any answers for you - but I would like to say that this may not be as personal as one might think. You enjoy your job - you are successful in your industry - hair should not stop you from accomplishing your goals.
Wishing you the best!


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## Spiffy (Feb 3, 2010)

I say put a wig on it!


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## BlkOnyx488 (Feb 3, 2010)

Is this a "Job" or a "career"  either way they have no right to tell you what to do with your hair.  would your hair matter if you were a bald headed white man?

What exactly do THEY want to do with your hair so bad?
Get her on tape saying that bs and sue the company for harrassment!
then you won't need a "job" or a "career"

Also find out what is company policy concerning hair


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## Lucky's Mom (Feb 3, 2010)

Grrr...... I won't comment on more than what the other ladies have shared... but - the Eurocentric corporate standard is so opressive to Black women. I hate it!! it actually makes me physically ill..... 

I left Corporate America for this very reason. "Be as White as you can, then when you are the "only one" - be whiter...."
ugh...... I amm sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately - your parents would co -sign because they love you and they want great things for you.... 

A wig might be the way to go. If you are "the only", they won't be able to tell. Cornrow your hair, buy a great wig, move on.


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## Lucky's Mom (Feb 3, 2010)

Are there ANY pics of your hair????


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## hot_pepper96 (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't think this is fair. I see plenty of white women wearing buns where I work and I'm quite sure they don't get this lecture!


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## topnotch1010 (Feb 3, 2010)

I know your feelings are probably hurt op but your boss is propably right, especially if your parents agree. 

We're all judged by our looks. There's nothing new about that. I don't think buns everyday is professional, I think it's lazy. As a matter of fact, you should be looking your best to meet with clients. I think it's unprofessional to meet with clients with your hair like that, especially if you have edges sticking out everywhere. 

I know you can think of something more creative than buns op. Good luck girly.


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## WyrdWay (Feb 3, 2010)

Most of what I would say has been said already but.

Have you tried a sock bun? Or a phony pony?  Those ways you can keep your bun  I just got forced to step down from my position so I kinda feel your pain.


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> so i got ripped a NEW one after a work meeting today. my boss tells me she wants to put me up for a promotion but tells that my hair is "unprofessional" and that it "doesn't make me look my best with my hair slicked back" and that she needs me looking a certain way and "feeling confident" before she "moves forward with the (promotion) process." she went onto tell me how beautiful my hair looked when i wore it down at a company MLB event and "why don't i wear it like that all the time??" we have a corporate dinner tomorrow night and they (parents + boss) are mad that i'm not going to "press my hair" instead choosing to wear a bun.
> 
> so, i run home to mommy and daddy and what happened? my parents co-signed: "that crunchy bun doesn't flatter your face..." "your roots stick up"  "...you used to wear your hair down more often do that." blah, blah, blah...
> 
> ...



Just out of your curiosity is your boss black?

In all honesty, buns are the most conservative and professional style there is.  Since when are you forced to wear your hair straight if you're not working in a "lookism" type industry?  

I would take the advice of the posters that say to invest in a half wig or something.  Then I would consult with an attorney on if what they've said to you is even legal.


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## OrangeMoon (Feb 3, 2010)

I've been wearing half wigs, the only reason my hair is out today is because we have a meeting and my hair is long than the stupid half wig...I was told stop with the braids and buns.  I'm just playing the game until I move on smh


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## Lucky's Mom (Feb 3, 2010)

jada1111 said:


> Just out of your curiosity is your boss black?
> 
> In all honesty, buns are the most conservative and professional style there is. Since when are you forced to wear your hair straight if you're not working in a "lookism" type industry?
> 
> I would take the advice of the posters that say to invest in a half wig or something. Then I would consult with an attorney on if what they've said to you is even legal.


 

she said earlier - her boss is Korean.


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## BlondeByDesire (Feb 3, 2010)

Wow, I'm sorry this is happening to you.  My hair is in a frizzy bun as we speak.  I work in the legal field.  Since I've been transitioning, I've gotten nothing but compliments even on this freezy bun of my - from clear people.  

What about roller-sets - twists-outs?  Would any of these styles work for you.


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

topnotch1010 said:


> I know your feelings are probably hurt op but your boss is propably right, especially if your parents agree.
> 
> We're all judged by our looks. There's nothing new about that. *I don't think buns everyday is professional, I think it's lazy.* As a matter of fact, you should be looking your best to meet with clients. I think it's unprofessional to meet with clients with your hair like that, especially if you have edges sticking out everywhere.
> 
> I know you can think of something more creative than buns op. Good luck girly.




Okay, I'm lost.  Maybe I'm not up to date on the latest bun look here, but the buns that I remember or see folks wearing is slicked back and neat.  The back is rolled up pretty like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2xkdkg
PW: nappyhair

This to me is as professional as you can get.  It's a style that looks great on anyone.

Is there some other bun style I'm not aware of that looks like crap?


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## JayAnn0513 (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't have any advise OP, but I feel your pain. I just big chopped and went straight into braids because I didn't feel like my wash and go was professional. I'll likely be weaving or braiding until I get to APL and can roller set/flexi rod set weekly. I'm hoping to be promoted aain by the end of this year and I'm taking action before anyone says anything. honestly be glad she was up front with you some bosses ( like my white male bosses) would be to afraid to give me that answer even if it was the truth.


ETA: only a super straight slicked back bun would fly at my job once you're past an entry level position.


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## Kurlee (Feb 3, 2010)

OrangeMoon said:


> I've been wearing half wigs, the only reason my hair is out today is because we have a meeting and my hair is long than the stupid half wig...I was told stop with the braids and buns.  I'm just playing the game until I move on smh


wow. These reasons are exactly why I shifted my career away from business.  I could tell while I was studying and when I did a few internships that as a black woman, I would have to put up with so much bs and compromise way too much. I understand that it's the "way it is", but "the way it is", is wrong, eurocentric and highly discriminatory.  I just couldn't see myself going through all that, especially with natural hair. What a hassle. As long as I am clean and my hair is combed, and I am good employee, no one should fix their mouth to tell me that I HAVE TO rearrange everything for my hair. YIKES!


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## Rastafarai (Feb 3, 2010)

topnotch1010 said:


> I know your feelings are probably hurt op but your boss is propably right, especially if your parents agree.
> 
> We're all judged by our looks. There's nothing new about that. I don't think buns everyday is professional, I think it's lazy. As a matter of fact, you should be looking your best to meet with clients. I think it's unprofessional to meet with clients with your hair like that, especially if you have edges sticking out everywhere.
> 
> I know you can think of something more creative than buns op. Good luck girly.


 
Oh boy. You done open a can of worms with this comment.


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## jazii (Feb 3, 2010)

uh oh. that sucks. I wouldn't want to be told how to wear my hair. ugh but the job is more important! do what you gotta do =)!!!


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## serendipity (Feb 3, 2010)

I must say I'm very intrigued by all this especially as I will be interviewing shortly myself. I tend to protective style so ponies, buns, wigs are what I often sport. 
I don't think the OP should compromise her career/livelihood for hair it's just not that serious imo. Surely there's got to be a happy medium.
It would be helpful if folks could post pics of the hairstyles that they consider professional, particularly protective ones.


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## KnitChick (Feb 3, 2010)

*I know it sucks that you even have to deal with this but, it's a sad reality that we have to deal with. You are only going to screw yourself over and out of a promotion, so I would wear my hear down UNTIL I get that promotion and the go RIGHT BACK to bunning after! You can still do neat stylish buns w swoop bangs etc. 

For meetings etc. you can change your style up a bit but that's a choice that you will have to make. You should look your best when meeting clients anyway!  There are TONS of ways to look good w/o compromising your hair!...However, play the game the way THEY want you to play it until YOU get what you need from them $$$$$$$$ Then go back to doing you! *


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## lux10023 (Feb 3, 2010)

wow if your boss had to say something it must be serious

i would never let a hairstyle come btwn me and my success----

will it kill you to wear your hair down--no

so whats the problem..?

its a hairtsyle


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## Rastafarai (Feb 3, 2010)

serendipity said:


> I must say I'm very intrigued by all this especially as I will be interviewing shortly myself. I tend to protective style so ponies, buns, wigs are what I often sport.
> I don't think the OP should compromise her career/livelihood for hair it's just not that serious imo. Surely there's got to be a happy medium.
> It would be helpful if folks could post pics of the hairstyles that they consider professional, particularly protective ones.


 
Depending on your work environment, its very difficult for a napptural to blend in without tucking, hiding or protecting her hair strands. Now it appears even buns in its natural state are not acceptable in some work environments! There is no middle ground or happy medium if you're trying to move up the corporate ladder. It's either blend in or be stunted/demoted or fired. 

Depending on her length, I'd recommend the the OP go for a rollerset/soft curl/bob look more often, something like this:







Or play up her buns/chignons like this:


----------



## lushlady (Feb 3, 2010)

This is illegal.  I am amazed that people still say these kinds of things.


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## MekyakaKinkerbelle (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> so, i run home to mommy and daddy and what happened? my parents co-signed: *"that crunchy bun doesn't flatter your face..." "your roots stick up"*  "...you used to wear your hair down more often do that." blah, blah, blah...
> 
> another co-worker: *"....well, it looks okay to me, but..."*



Perhaps it's not the idea of the protective style, but rather the way it's being done??  I've seen a lot of protective styles that don't flatter the wearer.  Is the bun as polished as you can possibly make it?  The idea that your roots are sticking up makes me think of the frizzies.  What are you using to put your hair back?  You yourself hinted in another post that "you're no DLewis"...maybe you need a little more practice and a little change up...

I think that maybe people are trying to tell you there is something amiss with the way you're doing it.  Just my thoughts.

ETA: while I agree that no one can tell you to comply to a narrow, Eurocentric standard, corporations _do_ have the right to promote (or not) based on "fitting into the culture" (that's how they justify their craziness these days)...it totally sucks, but as someone else stated, you have to decide if it's a job, or a career; if it's a holding pattern or a place where you see yourself sitting on top one day.  You have to figure out where you are willing to compromise.  Another poster stated basically do what you need to do to get the promotion and then slide back to your buns.  But you either have to stay and change up the style to get the promotion, stay and keep your current position with your current style, or use the door.


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## MonPetite (Feb 3, 2010)

OP, could we see pictures of your bun? 

You mentioned you just slick it back with conditioner. Perhaps it's not the bun; but, as other posters have noted, the style/look of the bun?

A snappy part, mirror smooth, glossy chignons and french rolls (with or withouth embellishment) can be absolutely DECADENT. But they do require styling products as opposed to conditioner. They can still contribute to you HHJ and make you look fantastic in the meantime.

You can use a scarf and glossing serum at night, given your texture to look like you've flat ironed. I did it for years while texlaxed. You avoid heat, have pin-straight, shiny hair and can wash as often as you like, as your style will set while you sleep.

Pictures of your hair in its usual bun and down and styled would be very helpful. That way we could give you really solid, specific suggestions.

I'm rooting for you, dear heart!


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## MekyakaKinkerbelle (Feb 3, 2010)

^^^  Very good point.  Bunning only with conditioner is a hot frizzy mess for me.  If I want to wear a bun to work, I HAVE to use a styler or pomade.


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## CenteredGirl (Feb 3, 2010)

IMHO that's sexual harrassment.  Unless you are stinky, unkempt and slovenly with poor performance there is no cause for his comment on your hair.  I'm shocked.


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## Miss*Tress (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> I don't have a picture of my buns and I will say that i suck at making buns (i'm no DLewis.) *BUT* this pressure to wear my hair down is getting to me. *Even worse* when my parents agreed with my boss. my mom has ALWAYS hated my buns - she also thinks they're "unprofessional" on me because they "don't look good on me."


I have to admit I can't get indignant on your behalf, as I haven't seen the bun and by your own admission you say you don't do buns very well. You'll have to look at yourself objectively and see how or if you can do better with your protective styles.

Playing devil's advocate: step up your bun game - practice makes perfect. DLewis has tons of tutorials and there are even more on youtube. Try changing the position of your bun to a more flattering angle, for example, higher buns can look more elegant. Also liven up your look with impeccable makeup and dressier earrings.

Whatever you decide, good luck with your promotion. I'm sure you'll know what the best course of action is.


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## LadyPaniolo (Feb 3, 2010)

bluediamond0829 said:


> A little off topic:
> This kind of sounds like the Devil Wears Prada(not sure if you work in a fashion magazine industry and remember how the one lead actress changed her total look just to be able to get recognition at work by her manager).



Her job sounds JUST like The Devil Wears Prada... all the clears and others are in there with hair down and flowing, bouncing around. They are all dressed to the nines. Remember in the book, her friend at Runway pulls her aside and says she'll be fired if she doesn't change her look? This happens to everyone, black white or otherwise. Let's not try to make it more than it is. 



stellagirl76 said:


> I don't think that BIG BAD BOSS is the problem.  I think that the system is the problem and the example that we have been setting as black women is the problem.
> 
> I think boss is just telling it as it is and trying to get her staff promoted.  Its not in Boss lady's interest not to have her staff progress as she also will not progress.  *My guess is that Boss lady knows she is or soon will be up for promotion but usually one of the pre-requisites for that is that your own staff are also progressing.*
> 
> ...



YES, stellagirl, you are 100% on point here. The game is what it is... there are white girls in teh office who would like to come in wearing a granola-crunchy hippie outfit 5x per week but they don't, because they have to play the game. There are white guys who might want to skip the shaving and let a huge mountain man beard hang down to their belt buckle, but they don't... because they have to play the game. Everyone has to do it, or suffer the consequences. 

Others don't KNOW what we have to do in order to get that flowing bouncy style... how could they? So let's not get our panties in a wad about it. The boss has SEEN the OP looking a certain way with her hair down, so she knows it's possible. She's not asking her to be white, she's asking her to look like she did at the baseball game: polished and flyyyy!!! 





LoveLiLi said:


> OP, I would wear my hair down for certain events and meetings to appease her. A bun can look either elegant or frumpy - you have to be sure you're making it look presentable.
> 
> However, I would also outline the straightening process to her so she understands it's not as simple as she may think and your hair can be messed up very easily (perspiration, humidity etc).
> 
> ...



Exactly my point... a Korean woman has no basis of knowledge to draw from here... she doesn't KNOW she's asking the OP to risk damage that could result in chewed up broken off hair. We can't be too mad at her for not knowing that. Yes, there is basis to be angry at the OP being asked to change her physical appearance for a promotion, but Becky or Min Cho has to do the same thing... let's not take it too personal, shall we? 

Practical advice: get yourself an Omega part wig. You would have a leave-out of only a few inches that you could easily rollerset and pin curl throughout the week, while the rest of your hair is cornrowed... maybe leave out your edges as well. You can remove it to DC and dry your hair, without the potential mildew/takedown/hairloss risks that a weave brings. You can have that fly, bouncy flowing hair that the office values and get promoted. You can have confidence knowing you look glam AND have your work skills on point. You can be happy knowing that you real hair is healthy, happy and thriving. And once you get to a super high up position, you can wear your real hair out in some cute buns when you want to, without anyone saying anything about it. 

GET THAT MONEY, GIRL!!!!!


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## Firefly (Feb 3, 2010)

I know how you feel and have faced being under this microscope myself.  Here's my little 2 cents:  It is what it is.  You have worked hard to get where you are...don't let anything break your stride.  Get yourself a lace front wig, braid your hair underneath.  You can still get your workouts in, have your protective style and they'll have no idea that it's a wig.  Play the game until you are in the position to make the rules.  Don't cut off your own foot by making waves over this unless you have weighed the consequences of the worst that can happen and desided that it's worth the price.  It's easy for us to give advice but you are the only one living your life....think carefully because you are the one to live with the outcome.


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## Firefly (Feb 3, 2010)

LadyPaniolo said:


> Practical advice: get yourself an Omega part wig. You would have a leave-out of only a few inches that you could easily rollerset and pin curl throughout the week, while the rest of your hair is cornrowed... maybe leave out your edges as well. You can remove it to DC and dry your hair, without the potential mildew/takedown/hairloss risks that a weave brings. *You can have that fly, bouncy flowing hair that the office values and get promoted. You can have confidence knowing you look glam AND have your work skills on point. You can be happy knowing that you real hair is healthy, happy and thriving. And once you get to a super high up position, you can wear your real hair out in some cute buns when you want to, without anyone saying anything about it. *
> 
> *GET THAT MONEY, GIRL!!!!!*


 
This is sound advice!!!


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

MekyakaKinkerbelle said:


> ^^^  Very good point.  Bunning only with conditioner is a hot frizzy mess for me.  If I want to wear a bun to work, I HAVE to use a styler or pomade.



I have to agree with this.  Any slick down style I do requires the above.


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## almond eyes (Feb 3, 2010)

My opinion, this is just a ploy by your boss!!!!!!!!!!!Good luck.

And your parents, a different generation. Like my parents hair styled means curled. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## mscocoface (Feb 3, 2010)

Wyldcurls - have you made any decisions as to what you are going to do?


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## LadyPaniolo (Feb 3, 2010)

I'd like to hear your decision as well. So far the suggestions in this thread I've seen have been:

- go hard and file a federal complaint 

- wear your hair down (as you did at the game)

- practice some fancier updo's

- learn to rollerset (this is easier than it sounds  rollersetting is HARD) and wear your hair down during the work week

- keep rocking those dusty buns and dare anyone to speak up erplexed 

- get a half wig, lacefront or Omega Part wig


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## caribeandiva (Feb 3, 2010)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Wear your hair down until you get the promotion and stay on top of moisturizing your ends. In the mean time, find some youtube updo tutorials so that you can start doing some protective styles that vary from your slicked back style.
> 
> *You can be indignant after you can start spending that promotion money*.


 Exactly. I agree with this entire post. There are other protective styles besides buns and they allow you to wear your hair down. Half wigs are a great option.


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## imaccami (Feb 3, 2010)

LadyPaniolo said:


> Her job sounds JUST like The Devil Wears Prada... all the clears and others are in there with hair down and flowing, bouncing around. They are all dressed to the nines. Remember in the book, her friend at Runway pulls her aside and says she'll be fired if she doesn't change her look? This happens to everyone, black white or otherwise. Let's not try to make it more than it is.
> 
> 
> 
> YES, stellagirl, you are 100% on point here. The game is what it is... *there are white girls in teh office who would like to come in wearing a granola-crunchy hippie outfit 5x per week but they don't, because they have to play the game. There are white guys who might want to skip the shaving and let a huge mountain man beard hang down to their belt buckle, but they don't... because they have to play the game. Everyone has to do it, or suffer the consequences*.


 
I agree. Everyone has to change their look for work. What's wrong with a wig? You can work out, avoid heat, and protective style all in one. 

It says a lot to me that even your parents agree with her.

You say that a lot of clients like you because of your personality despite the fact that you're not fixed up as nicely as everyone else, well why not go all the way? Have your personality _and_ your attire working on your side and go as far as you can.

White women don't wake up instantly glam either, they put a lot of work into that straight hair.


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## Shananyganz (Feb 3, 2010)

My feelings/opinions on the topic range. While I personally think that no one can tell you how to wear your hair, I am aware that is not always an everyday professional reality. I'm not certain if I discovered this during college or if it was something I was always aware of, but the bottom-line is that we, as women, more so as black women are held to a certain standard when it comes to the way we look. It DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT...but speaking to this case, there is a way to be militant (for lack of a better word) in your beliefs, while also doing what is best for your career and subsequently your livelihood. 

What the boss is "requesting"...it will take work...end of story. The pictures posted by Rastafari are PRIME examples of how I'd do my hair for work. A piece added here...some curls added there and I was good to go. I rarely wore my hair down, it was ALWAYS in some kind of pony tail, bun, updo; but I kept it ever changing. One week it was this style, the next it was that. This took more time in the morning, but it was necessary. If you are MBL, I think you know what practices helped you get to and retain that length, enough so that you can step out the box a little. Sure it means more manipulation, but that just means you kick it up a notch when at home. If you choose to wear your hair down one week because that is the week all regions come together, then the following week, go back to your upgraded bun. If you don't mind my saying, I would step out on a limb and say it may not necessarily be that you bun...but that it is the same thing day in and day out. Those other women, they wear their hair down, but are they constantly changing? Some just may, but I doubt that all come in one day straight hair, the next day crinkled, the next day curled and so on.

I can not recall the poster, but you have to decide what is important. Is this a job or a career, was all the schooling (required or not) time and training just because you could. 

It sucks and feelings of outrage are warranted, but after all that is said and done, what is the bigger picture? Speaking for myself, I am not suggesting you lay there and take it, but if you sincerely feel that your boss was coming from a good place, make the change in YOUR WAY. You can STILL protective style and look fly. Accessories work miracles at times, some fly make-up (if you into it) to play up facial features, your options really are endless. There are SO many  simple things that you can do with your hair and STILL maintain your personal goals.


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## Br*nzeb*mbsh~ll (Feb 3, 2010)

Two words.
*
Law*
*Suit*


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## topnotch1010 (Feb 3, 2010)

Rastafarai said:


> Oh boy. You done open a can of worms with this comment.


 
Really? I don't think so. *What's wrong with being creative?* You don't have to wear your hair in a bun everyday to retain length, we all know that. There are plenty of other ways to protect your hair without recycling the exact same hairstyle day after day. Step your game up a bit, especially if your livelihood depends on it. There's nothing wrong with telling someone to step their game up.

If you are the face of your company, you should look your best. Sleek buns occationally are ok, but everyday....I don't think so and it seems her employer feels the same way. Since when did crunchy edges become ok for a client meeting? Client meeting are a presentation and I don't know about anyone else but if I'm presenting something, you better believe I won't be half-stepping.


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## almond eyes (Feb 3, 2010)

I would really do an thorough self-examination of your relationship with your boss. And I am not telling you to play militant, however what I am saying is that you might do all of that and still not get what you want or you might do all of that and end up having to compromise yourself more. How do the other women present in the office (hair wise), why has this issue come up?How did you used to wear your hair? Is your boss new?How do you dress?Have you ever had issues with your boss before?How do other black women carry themselves in your office?Has your job performance ever been questioned?Are there any lay offs being planned?

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## Liege4421 (Feb 3, 2010)

WesternEyes said:


> what does your hair have to do with your job??


 
People are probably going to disagree with me...but hair has a lot to do with your job, especially if you work in the business industry.  Unfortunately, people use your hair to make judgements about you (WRONG OR RIGHT), just as they use your clothing, your speech, etc. to make similar judgements.

With that being said, I do not see how a BUN could be so offensive, especially because the bun is the hairstyle of choice for military ladies like myself; however, that depends on how you finish it.  It is possible to have a bun that looks unkempt, but you really have to "work" to achieve that effect.

My bottom line...I disagree that people have the "right" to wear their hair in any style they want and then be upset that their supervisor addresses it.  Hair/dress/appearance all tie in to the corporate culture of your organization.  If you want to wear flip-flops to work, you have the "right" to do it, but your supervisor also has a right to state that dress is not part of the corporate culture.  However, if your hair is in a nice, neat bun, which is probably one of the least offensive hairstyles possible, and your supervisor just thinks you look "better" with your hair down, (and you don't work in an industry where having "sexy" hair counts) then it may be time for you to speak with your company's HR manager.


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## topnotch1010 (Feb 3, 2010)

jada1111 said:


> Okay, I'm lost. Maybe I'm not up to date on the latest bun look here, but the buns that I remember or see folks wearing is slicked back and neat. The back is rolled up pretty like this:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/2xkdkg
> PW: nappyhair
> ...


 
I was talking about her edges that her parents were commenting on. Of course all buns don't look like crap. As a matter of fact I'm rocking one today with a hellified swoop.

I believe in creativity. Buns every single day for months on end is neither creative nor do I think it's professional and/or polished. I think it shows a lack of effort.


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## almond eyes (Feb 3, 2010)

What constitutes unkempt? I mean if hair is dirty then I get that but if your hair is natural and you don't use heat to wear your bun then your hair will never have that smooth slicked back look. My natural hair is fine with fly aways and no amount is slicking is going to make it have that perfect neat look so when I want to impress then I just use a beautiful head band (does the trick every time) and use a bit of heat at the front of the roots.

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 3, 2010)

I read your siggy and see that you're 3b/c which means you most likely can achieve a smooth sleek straight look with minimal direct heat and harm to your hair if you do it right. I think you should really master rollersetting then wrapping or pincurling to get the sleek straight look, if you havent before start getting religious with the moisture DCs step things up in the fashion dept if thats an issue as well, get that money continue to move up in the firm then three promotions later you do whateva the heck you wanna do with your hair to reach your goals get that money girl. 

Hair is not that deep to compromise a promotion in a profession you're clearly happy to be in and excelling in, make the compromise for now, if you continue on this trajectory you'll be in her position in no time and you'll be in the position to do whatever.

When I got licensed to sell real estate I was 19 and when I joined my firm I was one of the youngest amung my peers. Initially my hair was pressed and in a low bun (I NEVER wear buns normally and find them severe and boring but please believe in that interview and in the beginning my hair was in one) eventually my capabilities spoke for itself and I became one of the highest grossing amung my colleagues....little by little I busted out my fro, straw set, twists, twist-outs you name the style I rocked it with my clients and strolled right into those luxury buildings and lofts.

Make a little comprimises in the beginning at the rate you're going you're gonna be in your boss's position in a few years anyway.


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## Rastafarai (Feb 3, 2010)

topnotch1010 said:


> Really? I don't think so. *What's wrong with being creative?* You don't have to wear your hair in a bun everyday to retain length, we all know that. There are plenty of other ways to protect your hair without recycling the exact same hairstyle day after day. Step your game up a bit, especially if your livelihood depends on it. There's nothing wrong with telling someone to step their game up.
> 
> If you are the face of your company, you should look your best. Sleek buns occationally are ok, but everyday....I don't think so and it seems her employer feels the same way. Since when did crunchy edges become ok for a client meeting? Client meeting are a presentation and I don't know about anyone else but if I'm presenting something, you better believe I won't be half-stepping.


 
It's the implication you made that it's "unprofessional to meet with clients with your hair like that" (hair buns) that is opening a can of worms. You're suggesting its unprofessional and lazy, which is not always the case. 

The OP can still be creative with buns and be professional wearing them. I think her colleagues saw her in another look outside the bun and preferred she wore it that way...all the time. And it was at a baseball game where the OP decided to let her hair down, not in a conference room.

While I agree she will have to consider changing her daily styling, she can also do that while wearing buns. Her boss should not be deciding for her what is best for her hair. I'm sure folks would have less to say if the OP decided to step it up a notch with her buns.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 3, 2010)

BostonMaria said:


> I'm confused but here's my dos centavos
> leave your hair down, get promoted, put your hair back up
> 
> I'd love to know where you work



i'm all for leaving my hair down. i just get nervous about giving my hair constant attention (styling it) and trying to retain length/grow it longer. its a little past bottom of bra strap now. i had a major set back a year ago that i'm trying to recover from. 

i want to know the best way to style my hair so i can wear it down/make it look great everyday WHILE continuing to nuture and protect it.


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## Rastafarai (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> i want to know the best way to style my hair so i can wear it down/make it look great everyday WHILE continuing to nuture and protect it.


 
So no more buns, OP?


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

LadyPaniolo said:


> I'd like to hear your decision as well. So far the suggestions in this thread I've seen have been:
> 
> - go hard and file a federal complaint
> 
> ...




This would be MY choice.  I'm not about to damage my hair for NOBODY!

I would also invest in some cute wigs that could be cut by a stylist to fit my look as well.  This would all be done until I got my promotion and could be left the hell alone.

Also, again the OP's buns "might" be on the sloppy side, so this could be the gripe of the boss.


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## bravenewgirl87 (Feb 3, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> *My opinion, this is just a ploy by your boss!!!!!!!!!!!Good luck.*
> 
> And your parents, a different generation. Like my parents hair styled means curled.
> 
> ...



*That's what I am thinking. Keeping her jumping through hoops. I've seen it many times before.*


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## Traycee (Feb 3, 2010)

Don't cry...There are so many options of no heat or no direct heat styling....You just need to do some research...Off hand I would suggest rollersets ( alot of the ladies do the rollersets and retain so so much growth) bantu knot done right looks great...So you can even make a braid out look nice for work..

Cheer up...I think you will have lots of fun experimenting finding new healthy styles


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

Rastafarai said:


> It's the implication you made that it's "unprofessional to meet with clients with your hair like that" (hair buns) that is opening a can of worms. You're suggesting its unprofessional and lazy, which is not always the case.
> 
> The OP can still be creative with buns and be professional wearing them. I think her colleagues saw her in another look outside the bun and preferred she wore it that way...all the time. And it was at a baseball game where the OP decided to let her hair down, not in a conference room.
> 
> *While I agree she will have to consider changing her daily styling, she can also do that while wearing buns. Her boss should not be deciding for her what is best for her hair. I'm sure folks would have less to say if the OP decided to step it up a notch with her buns.*



Agree with your entire post, especially the bolded.  I have a problem with folks of another race (especially one that worships pale skin and super straight hair) giving me "hair advice".


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> i'm all for leaving my hair down. i just get nervous about giving my hair constant attention (styling it) and trying to retain length/grow it longer. its a little past bottom of bra strap now. i had a major set back a year ago that i'm trying to recover from.
> 
> i want to know the best way to style my hair so i can wear it down/make it look great everyday WHILE continuing to nuture and protect it.



You're a 3b/c, you should have no problem finding wigs or half wigs that match your texture.  This is what I would do if I was in your shoes.  Then once you get your promotion you can do what you damn well please.  I would also consult with a labor attorney as well.


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## la mosca (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> i'm all for leaving my hair down. i just get nervous about giving my hair constant attention (styling it) and trying to retain length/grow it longer. its a little past bottom of bra strap now. i had a major set back a year ago that i'm trying to recover from.
> 
> *i want to know the best way to style my hair so i can wear it down/make it look great everyday WHILE continuing to nuture and protect it*.


 
I'd go with a half-wig or a professionally styled wig.  What a pain to have to go through this, but I've worked in a very competitive corporate environment for many years now (and I often have to deal with clients and make public appearances), so I know how it is.


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## bravenewgirl87 (Feb 3, 2010)

*I hope you get that promotion, though. Seriously, keep us updated.
*


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## topnotch1010 (Feb 3, 2010)

Rastafarai said:


> It's the implication you made that it's "unprofessional to meet with clients with your hair like that" (hair buns) that is opening a can of worms. You're suggesting its unprofessional and lazy, which is not always the case.
> 
> The OP can still be creative with buns and be professional wearing them. I think her colleagues saw her in another look outside the bun and preferred she wore it that way...all the time. And it was at a baseball game where the OP decided to let her hair down, not in a conference room.
> 
> While I agree she will have to consider changing her daily styling, she can also do that while wearing buns. Her boss should not be deciding for her what is best for her hair. I'm sure folks would have less to say if the OP decided to step it up a notch with her buns.



And I stand by my comments. Anything else?


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## Firefly (Feb 3, 2010)

I was just looking at one of Ateya's YT vids and I thought that you might get some ideas...check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ateyaaa


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## lovelyone80 (Feb 3, 2010)

this is so ironic. when I applied for my job, my current boss loved my wild micros but asked me to put them in a bun which I did. And I understood why, my hair was very big and curly. Even now, when we have meetings, I put in a bun to look professional.

it's interesting what some see as professional and others dont.


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## Diva_Esq (Feb 3, 2010)

BlackMasterPiece said:


> *I read your siggy and see that you're 3b/c which means you most likely can achieve a smooth sleek straight look with minimal direct heat *and harm to your hair if you do it right. I think you should really master rollersetting then wrapping or pincurling to get the sleek straight look, if you havent before start getting religious with the moisture DCs step things up in the fashion dept if thats an issue as well, get that money continue to move up in the firm then three promotions later you do whateva the heck you wanna do with your hair to reach your goals get that money girl.
> 
> Hair is not that deep to compromise a promotion in a profession you're clearly happy to be in and excelling in, make the compromise for now, if you continue on this trajectory you'll be in her position in no time and you'll be in the position to do whatever.
> 
> ...


 
*See bold portion*

I agree...I wet bun about 75-90% of the time, and I work in a conservative law firm with no other people of color besides myself, and I don't use any heat to bun.  Wet with conditioner, Garnier Fructis wax for my edges and Eco Styler Gel to smooth back and I have no fly aways and a neat bun.  

Good luck!  Hair is a big deal, unfortunately, in the workplace.


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## LushLox (Feb 3, 2010)

I see little point in seeking legal advice or even going to HR. Unless you have what your manager said in written form or there are witnesses who will confirm what was said, if the woman is sensible all she'll do is deny it or she'll claim that you misinterpreted her. I work in HR, I know how these things work.


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## JinaRicci (Feb 3, 2010)

It's not about whether her buns are professional, neat or attractive.  The fact is buns for some reason are not part of her work culture.  If buns were THE accepted hairstyle she could be wearing her hair down looking fly & professional but still not fitting in.  Some places of business think buns are hairstyles worn when you didn't wash your hair i.e. haven't taken enough effort.  It doesn't make it a universal fact- it's just that particular culture. 

Bosses look at how well their employees embrace their environment & represent them.  If someone isn't fitting in, then they question how long they will last & whether they should invest in & promote that person.   OP's boss is doing her a favor to make sure she's not passed over since other people higher up probably also get a say in her promotion.

Good luck OP!


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## R4L (Feb 3, 2010)

*warning -unpopular opinion*

Perhaps you just need to suck it up and take your bosses' advice.  

You are NOT running things.  You are young and new.  If MULTIPLE people are telling you that you don't look professional - trust them.  Change it up.  If you're doing buns with scrunchies that change to match the colors of your outfits, it does NOT look professional.  From your posts, appearance is important at your job.  You mentioned that some of the meetings look like fashion shows.  This is the corporate culture that you have chosen to work within.  Here are your choices:

1.  ignore what your boss told you and make your hair more important than your job - you risk not getting advanced.
2.  follow your boss' advice and change your hair and gain advancement.
3.  look for a new job where they are less visually aware.

Whatever you choose good luck.

The harsh reality is that people care what you look like.  Tall people make more money than short people.  Good looking people have an easier life.  People will judge you based on your hair.  No one meets someone and thinks - ohhh what a sexy brain!


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## blue_flower (Feb 3, 2010)

How the heezy are they going to tell you what to do with YOUR hair? If my boss said that to me, I would've said, "What about you?"


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## cocoaluv (Feb 3, 2010)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *That's what I am thinking. Keeping her jumping through hoops. I've seen it many times before.*


 
Thats the first thing that came to my mind. What will she ask for next? Your not thin enough, pretty enough, wear enough makeup/the right clothes.......etc. I see nothing wrong with wearing different hair styles but I'd be too pissed if next time she has another "reason" as to why I cant be promoted.


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## djkforeal (Feb 3, 2010)

Wow, this thread is getting really long and I don't think it has been 24 hours.  I can't read through all the pages because I have read enough!  I cannot believe the corporate world is really this way and I have heard this before so it is not new but it is still shocking!  My sister is in a similar situation I think but she has not shared this side of it with us, she works for a major TV network and her boss is Asian and she is the only black girl in her department and she catches slight hints of blatant racisism!  These people better know about EEO and government programs that work for people who are discriminated against because of age, race, religon, disability etc.  I am a government employee and I happen to be a union representative and I would be damn if any manager would say things like that to our employees! Get my drift...bad publicity, a lot of money involved in a lawsuit etc.  I would do like the others have said and try a half wig or a full lace wig so that they would not even know it was your hair or not unless you tell them.  Also half wigs are very easy, all you do is place the combs in the front and back sort of like a banana clip and blend your hair over the front of it or wear the front of your hair slicked back, put the half wig about 2-3 inches back from your front hairline and throw on a headband.  They have so many different headbands to match any wardrobe or print out there.  This has me so frustrated and I don't want to dwell on this any longer.  I hope this helps, much love.


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## Vintageglam (Feb 3, 2010)

Ang! said:


> I don't have any answers for you - but I would like to say that this may not be as personal as one might think. You enjoy your job - you are successful in your industry - hair should not stop you from accomplishing your goals.
> Wishing you the best!



ITA    I also think that Op you should maybe contact a personal stylist.  You say that you don't feel comfortable sometimes styling yourself.  I got a personal stylist when I knew I was moving to the next step in my career and I never looked back.  Also you can divert some attention away from your hair.



Rastafarai said:


> Depending on your work environment, its very difficult for a napptural to blend in without tucking, hiding or protecting her hair strands. Now it appears even buns in its natural state are not acceptable in some work environments! There is no middle ground or happy medium if you're trying to move up the corporate ladder. It's either blend in or be stunted/demoted or fired.
> 
> Depending on her length, I'd recommend the the OP go for a rollerset/soft curl/bob look more often, something like this:
> 
> ...




Love Rasta's Post.  I really think there is some FANTASTIC inspiration here.  As I said in my initial post, I do not think it's the hair itself.  I think it's the overall effect in conjunction with the way the hair is styled.



BlackMasterPiece said:


> *I read your siggy and see that you're 3b/c which means you most likely can achieve a smooth sleek straight look with minimal direct heat and harm to your hair if you do it right.*
> 
> *Hair is not that deep to compromise a promotion in a profession you're clearly happy to be in and excelling in, make the compromise for now, if you continue on this trajectory you'll be in her position in no time and you'll be in the position to do whatever.*
> *
> Make a little comprimises in the beginning at the rate you're going you're gonna be in your boss's position in a few years anyway.*



ITA 



Traycee said:


> Don't cry...*There are so many options of no heat or no direct heat styling....You just need to do some research...Off hand I would suggest rollersets ( alot of the ladies do the rollersets and retain so so much growth) bantu knot done right looks great...So you can even make a braid out look nice for work..*



ITA again 



Diva_Esq said:


> *See bold portion*
> 
> I agree...I wet bun about 75-90% of the time, and I work in a conservative law firm with no other people of color besides myself, and I don't use any heat to bun.  Wet with conditioner, Garnier Fructis wax for my edges and Eco Styler Gel to smooth back and I have no fly aways and a neat bun.
> 
> Good luck!  Hair is a big deal, unfortunately, in the workplace.



Great info here....



Cream Tee said:


> I see little point in seeking legal advice or even going to HR. Unless you have what your manager said in written form or there are witnesses who will confirm what was said, if the woman is sensible all she'll do is deny it or she'll claim that you misinterpreted her. I work in HR, I know how these things work.



ITA - Nothing more to say.  Go to "Human Remains" and you might as well kiss that promo goodbye and any mentoring or confidences from your Boss in the future. 




R4L said:


> *warning -unpopular opinion*
> 
> Perhaps you just need to suck it up and take your bosses' advice.
> 
> ...



Everything she said was the truth.  Its your choice OP.  And notice the emphasis on the word *CHOICE*.  You don;t have to do anything you don't want to and neither do your employers.  So it's all a reciprocal you scratch my back and I will scratch yours relationship.


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## PeanutButterandHoney (Feb 3, 2010)

Hmmm..

My opinions aren't popular, but without seeing your bun, I will reserve my opinions, but, IMO
Wigs=no no. I have never seen a wig that looks real. Half wig MAYBE.
Weave=no no.
Lacefront= no no
"wash n go"- no no
braidouts/twistouts/braids/coil outs= no no. It is evident that textured is not what your boss is looking for.

If it were me, I perfect rollersetting and saran wrapping.


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## lux10023 (Feb 3, 2010)

we live in a very shallow visual world..its actually nice that your boss kept it honest with you and told you what is holding you back from a promotion...versus having you sitting there for yrs not getting promoted

there r ppl that dont have a job..and its a debate over whether or not you should bun or no bun for a promotion---smh
and if a bun is keeping you from a promotion----i would have my hair blown out sraight until i get the promotion---isnt that what we work for--to move up....

honey--do what you wanna do..im just sayn...
a hairstyle could neveeeeeeeeer keep me from making more benjamins..lol...
if they asked you to shave your hair now that would be something to be shocked over--a bun

a bun


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## R4L (Feb 3, 2010)

Aspire said:


> I am so sorry this happened to you.  I can tell you that I experience a similar issue young in my career.
> 
> How you handle this is going to be based on your experience in the workplace.  Here are some options you might consider . . .
> 
> ...




In this economy, going to HR over some hair will get you branded as not being a team player.  Fair or not, that's reality.  Figure out if standing up for your right to wear your hair how you want is more important, or getting ahead is more important.

Plenty of white chicks have curly hair and blow dry it and flat iron it every morning.  SUCK. IT. UP.


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## CherryCherryBoomBoom (Feb 3, 2010)

How strange, I thought buns were professional?


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## Crackers Phinn (Feb 3, 2010)

JinaRicci said:


> *It's not about whether her buns are professional, neat or attractive.  The fact is buns for some reason are not part of her work culture.  If buns were THE accepted hairstyle she could be wearing her hair down looking fly & professional but still not fitting in. * Some places of business think buns are hairstyles worn when you didn't wash your hair i.e. haven't taken enough effort.  It doesn't make it a universal fact- it's just that particular culture.
> 
> Bosses look at how well their employees embrace their environment & represent them.  If someone isn't fitting in, then they question how long they will last & whether they should invest in & promote that person.   *OP's boss is doing her a favor to make sure she's not passed over since other people higher up probably also get a say in her promotion.*
> Good luck OP!



I don't think that folks are 'getting' that this is the point.

Buns being a professional hairstyle is not a universal truth when your professional enviornment is anti-buns.


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

CherryCherryBoomBoom said:


> How strange, I thought buns were professional?



I did too.  Who knew they were considered "unkempt", "unprofessional", "messy" and all around ugly.  There fotkis and youtube videos to disprove this - THANKFULLY.

I don't know if the OP is doing this, but just because you're NATURAL doesn't mean you do NOTHING to your hair.  You still need to use styling products and put the same type of care into it that you would do if you were relaxed.

Nothing's changed.  Neatness, proper moisture and sheen is STILL necessary no matter WHAT style you do.


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## sharifeh (Feb 3, 2010)

Kurlee said:


> i cant believe that in 2010, hair is standing in the way of a promotion.  Gender wise and "race" wise, I find that appalling.



I find it appaling too. I'm so sorry OP. You are in a ridiculous position, you really are, 

But I agree with the rollersetting, if you are a type 3, then that can straighten your hair and make it look really nice. le sigh


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## cutenss (Feb 3, 2010)

This thread is so ironic because I work at a hospital, and I just had a patient tell me last night that I had "pretty" hair.  She told me that not everyone can pull all their hair back of there face like me.  And yes my hair was in a bun.  And to me, not one of my best buns.  And all of this while I was drawing her blood.  Hang in there OP, and do what is best for you. 

It is so  when people are determined to force their beliefs on you.  Can't everybody just do them, and accepts others for it?


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## yods (Feb 3, 2010)

Honestly op, it sounds to me like your boss just wants you to look a bit more fashion forward. 

Have you looked at the ponytail rollersetting threads around here?  Or ever tried braid/twist outs?  Look on youtube and perfect the style that most appeals to you while stepping up the DC and moisturising rather than using direct heat daily since you are uncomfortable with this.  A twist out for example can last a few days down then maybe you can have a day or two of messy buns, see curly nikki's site for some ideas.  I don't really think it is all or nothing type scenario.    

Now if she had a problem with curly styles as well then it is a whole diff issue nothing to do with your hair


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## AfroKink (Feb 3, 2010)

I can't keep up with this thread. Has the OP posted pics of her bun yet?


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## ctosha (Feb 3, 2010)

I have not read through all 15 pages but as long as your hair is in a professional manner which I would think a bun is then there is nothing wrong with that. That is as professional as it gets. It is not hindering your job performance in any way maybe there is some underlying reason why she is requesting this of you. Have you asked her to expand on the fact that your hair is supposedly impacting your performance? Also you might want to take this to HR


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## Rastafarai (Feb 3, 2010)

jada1111 said:


> I did too. Who knew they were considered "unkempt", "unprofessional", "messy" and all around ugly. There fotkis and youtube videos to disprove this - THANKFULLY.
> 
> I don't know if the OP is doing this, but just because you're NATURAL doesn't mean you do NOTHING to your hair. You still need to use styling products and put the same type of care into it that you would do if you were relaxed.
> 
> Nothing's changed. Neatness, proper moisture and sheen is STILL necessary no matter WHAT style you do.


 
Mmmhmmm. I'm sure OP's bun wasn't all that hideous. But you know how natural hair can be. For some naturals, flyaways are unavoidable no matter how much products you use to slick it in place. 

And a little flyaway here and there can appear as "unkempt" or "wild" (ie militant ) by an outsider looking in.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 3, 2010)

i really need to see your hair in this bun of yours. but based on your op, it seems like everyone is telling you that _your_ bun simply does not look good on you. 

as for "unprofessional" i disagree i wear buns or cornrows daily and i interact with local and us gubmint officials from the WH on down to plain ol city council. i feel that a neat, pretty bun is practical, easy to maintain and obviously professional.

school marms been doing it for yeeeeeeeears.

it may be _your_ bun is unkempt or unflattering to your face or something. 

my 2c: play her hair game till u get the promotion and then go back to bunning.

if u r natural or transitioning, bun your hair. slick down the top/front, cover tightly with a satin scarf till it dries and you have no fly-aways or roots, just neat waves.


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

Rastafarai said:


> Mmmhmmm. I'm sure OP's bun wasn't all that hideous. But you know how natural hair can be. For some naturals, flyaways are unavoidable no matter how much products you use to slick it in place.
> 
> And a little flyaway here and there can appear as "unkempt" or "wild" (ie militant ) by an outsider looking in.



I don't believe it's that bad either Rasta.  

There is a distate for natural and curly caucasian hair by many people period. 

I've never seen a "messy" bun.  Like just how messed up could a bun be??  You throw it back, brush it down with some water, gel, wax, whatever, secure the end, tie it down with a scarf for a few minutes, then your good to go!

But like you said, a coupla flyaways is enough for "some" people to get into a tizzy (especially when it comes to afro-textured hair).


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## thehairmaverick (Feb 3, 2010)

imaccami said:


> I agree. Everyone has to change their look for work. What's wrong with a wig? You can work out, avoid heat, and protective style all in one.
> 
> It says a lot to me that even your parents agree with her.
> 
> ...




This is true. I had three white rommates: one with curly hair(I could tell she hated it), one with straight hair(she had a pink flat-iron which she used everyday...I never knew why until she spelled it out FRIZZ) and the last one that used a curling iron everyday. Although we may have different textures than yts, trust me, they can't wake up and go either! And some can't wash and go! 

btw, I did have a korean roommate once...she never did anything to her hair and it looked nice, wash and gos and when she woke up she brushed for half a sec and left for class  (i'm sure this doesn't help w/ your boss being Korean...sorry)


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## imaccami (Feb 3, 2010)

thehairmaverick said:


> This is true. I had three white rommates: one with curly hair(I could tell she hated it), one with straight hair(she had a pink flat-iron which she used everyday...I never knew why until she spelled it out FRIZZ) and the last one that used a curling iron everyday. Although we may have different textures than yts, trust me, they can wake up and go either! And some can't wash and go!
> 
> btw, I did have a korean roommate once...she never did anything to her hair and it looked nice, wash and gos and when she woke up she brushed for half a sec and left for class  (i'm sure this doesn't help w/ your boss being Korean...sorry)


 
Yep. Every white woman I know washes her hair every morning, blow dries/air dries, flat irons, and then either curls it or uses hot rollers on it. If they want to get any kind of lift or volume they have to add all kinds of additional steps.

On youtube you can search "morning routine" and you can see all the things that white women do to their hair before they leave the house. They don't just wake up, toss their heads, and go.


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## guudhair (Feb 3, 2010)

In response to your question, I would suggest roller sets, flexirods, and/or french rolls...there are may yt tutorials to learn how to do these styles...there are plenty ladies on this board who wear these styles and other styles with thier hair out on a regular basis and still maintain healthy tresses...the key is low manipulation and moisture, regardless of style.

I would like to know why is it that you spend more time on your hair/appearance when you go out with friends and not as much or the same amount of time when going to work?...if ALL of the women you work with are bringing their A-game on appearances, why aren't you?...I don't think it matters that you are the only black person there...and I don't think I would have been offened by my boss tellling me that (depending on the setting) or my family...at least they told you...it's called constructive criticism.

Every bun is not created equal and just like many other things, it's not "one size fits all"...someone telling us they wear a "bun" to work does not automatically equate to a "professional" look...I've seen plenty jacked up buns...and plenty of professional buns...I'll see if I can find some later tonight.

Are you gonna post a pic of your normal everyday work bun?


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## wannabelong (Feb 3, 2010)

Don't let a bun be the cause of you not getting a promotion.  I think it was nice of your boss to be honest with you and let you know what the "issue" is.  Get some wigs and practice rollersetting.  Make your money girl.


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## almond eyes (Feb 3, 2010)

Put my head on the chopping block, wear the hair down and conform to get the promo but I think there is more to this story than meets the eye and you will come to find out eventually. I don't think your boss is trying to help you be fashion forward. I think she is being condescending. You are fortunate that you have a hair texture that can do a wash and set easily. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## Shananyganz (Feb 3, 2010)

IF this is indeed a ploy, I would hope that the OP has enough wisdom and discernment to recognize it as such, but in the off chance that it isn't, I think she has a responsibility to self to advance. After putting in the schooling, the time, the training (blank stare) Skip the BS... I'm sure this isn't the first off color situation encountered if OP is the only woman of color in her region. Once again, none of this is RIGHT. In looking at the comments made by the original poster, she has yet to say, "I don't see what the issue is, my buns look great"...not once. She admitted that her buns could use an upgrade and sited several reasons (workout routine being one) as to why they are convenient. I will not argue the point that no one has the right to tell you what is and is not acceptable for your hair; however, as I previously stated, the professional reality is that it will happen. It is your job as an employee to gage what is a battle and what is a war. Unless there were blatant racial slurs or heavy innuendo, buns are not the enemy and they are not a cause for protest. 

If Boss Lady came and said, 'I think a short bob or the Rhianna cut would suit you better than BSL', then maybe we can call out ploy and whatnot. I can only go by the information provided, but I stick with the notion that maybe it is not the bun itself, but the presentation thereof. I loves me a bun...I lived by them when I was relaxed and I have worked in Corporate America the past 6 years. Sometimes we have to disregard what is actually said, look at the core of what was intended and and in the corporate world, there are some things that just have to roll off your back, the key is knowing what to and when to pay attention or incite action.


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## Lola Laughs (Feb 3, 2010)

Shananyganz;10062820[B said:
			
		

> ]...in the corporate world, there are some things that just have to roll off your back, the key is knowing what to and when to pay attention or incite action[/B].


 
^^That advice is worth its weight in gold!  Well put!


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## Lola Laughs (Feb 3, 2010)

Shananyganz said:


> *If Boss Lady came and said, 'I think a short bob or the Rhianna cut would suit you better than BSL', then maybe we can call out ploy and whatnot..[/*QUOTE]
> 
> LMAO!


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## Ivonnovi (Feb 3, 2010)

SOS_Different day!    Back in the 80's this "mentality" was expressed via the term "Front Office Appearance".   i.e.  "the desired person must have a "front office appearance".   WOW. 

Now that I've stated that, I must say this.  If you chose to work in this industry, you will have to choose whether to conform to their standards/expectations or whether to "educate" them on the "ignorance" of their standards.    
If you choose the latter: 
1.  Look in the mirror and do a fair and impartial assessment _(I highly recommend this, based on the reaction of the others you mentioned)_ 
2.   "choose" your battles wisely and 
3.  be prepared to compromise.  

(by #1, be honest, IMHO, if your hair is not neat/very uneven/ and looks as the "military" calls it "unkempt"; be honest and make adjustments BEFORE any thing else.   Yes, naturals can be neatly groomed but sometimes they still need extra tweaking too; hell even a "good" makeup job can make up for a not so purrty hair style; still it's all about attitude. )

#4.  ...If you can sit down with this Supervisor one-on-one; explain your perspective, get and listen to hers, (while implementing #2, & #3 and educating her on "your hair choices) then see where there's room for #3. 

I am military, and was so back in the day when by Regulation we could have no more than 2 (yes count'm  two, t-w-o braids).  I've seen policies come & go; I've seen them accepted and challenged.   
Sometimes you have to push the envelope to make a point; *sometimes  you may have to wait until you are in a position of authority to do it and for that point "to stick". *
*(I'm not telling you what I heard, I'm telling you what I know!)*



wyldcurlz said:


> so i got ripped a NEW one after a work meeting today. my boss tells me she wants to put me up for a promotion but tells that my *hair is "unprofessional" and that it "doesn't make me look my best with my hair slicked back" and that she needs me looking a certain way and "feeling confident" before she "moves forward with the (promotion) process."* she went onto tell me how beautiful my hair looked when i wore it down at a company MLB event and "why don't i wear it like that all the time??" we have a corporate dinner tomorrow night and they (parents + boss) are mad that i'm not going to "press my hair" instead choosing to wear a bun.
> 
> so, i run home to mommy and daddy and what happened? my parents co-signed: "that crunchy bun doesn't flatter your face..." "your roots stick up" "...you used to wear your hair down more often do that." blah, blah, blah...
> 
> ...


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## southerncitygirl (Feb 3, 2010)

sounds like a HR issue to me...document this and be on the lookout for a new job. most jobs don't have issues with the way hair is (out or up in a bun) unless its a healthcode violation like dealing with food or even the military. Some places even prefer women wear their hair up as it can be a distraction.sorry this was said to you...how mean.


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## DrC (Feb 3, 2010)

WTF??? YOU CANT BE SERIOUS?? AND YOU STILL WORK FOR THIS COMPANY??


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## almond eyes (Feb 3, 2010)

I agree with Ivonnovi set up a quiet tete a tete with the boss to know where she is coming from. Then you will be more at peace with your decision. I would not want to say something bad about your boss especially if she is really trying to help you out, she might also not understand why the issue bothers you. A discussion would help you both be on the same page. I hope your boss is not trying to pimp you.

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## cocomadmoiselle (Feb 3, 2010)

IMO job security is more important especially right now. I may be paranoid but I sometimes feel like I'm being tested when these kinds of issues arise and all of a sudden your annual review has a note that says "Not a team player"  "Doesn't respond well to contructive criticism" "Argumentative" etc. I hate to say it but you should do your best to blend in especially if you're the only AA female...they're always looking for a reason. 

As for the event tomorrow...ask your mother to help you do something about it...sounds like she will be more than happy.


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## Esq.2B (Feb 3, 2010)

THEDONROSSCOLLECTION said:


> WTF??? YOU CANT BE SERIOUS?? AND YOU STILL WORK FOR THIS COMPANY??


 
Should she quit over a hairstyle?


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## naijamerican (Feb 3, 2010)

OP, I'm really sorry that this has happened to you, but I think you've been offered some wonderful advice in this thread and I hope it helps you.  I don't think that your boss was acting out of malintent. She seems to care about your career and appears to have a vested interest in your success. Is it ignorant that a bun can still hold up one's promotion? Yes, it is, but not when you consider what another poster stated, which is that if the cultural milieu of your company is anti-bun, then you're going to have to be consistent with what they deem be acceptable or, unfortunately, find a new job. 

My thing is, I do agree that you should play the game. I also agree with the advice that perhaps it's not the bun itself, but that the bun is a proxy or encapsulates other aspects of your appearance that might be hindering your progress. Yeah, maybe you do need to get new styles and to wear your hair down more often. From that standpoint, by all means, do what you need to do.

But the thing that really bothers me is, after you wear your hair down, then what? What else are you, or anyone else, going to be asked to change to conform to a company's ideals? Are they going to ask you to lose weight? Gain weight? See a dermatologist because your skin looks jacked up? Wear less makeup? When does the intrusion end? It's not just the issue of navigating the corporate world as a woman of color; it's navigating it as a woman, period, in a society that cares more about how we look than what we do.

Sorry for the vent; this situation is so bothersome to me. And I feel that it happens more to "us" than to other people.  

ETA: By saying what I said, it doesn't mean that I think you should continue wearing a bun if it happens at the expense of your progress at this company. I'm just musing/venting because it just doesn't seem fair. All in all, just get that money, so that when you make it to the top, you'll exercise greater sensitivity for other people trying to make it. Get to the top so that women to come won't have to grapple with the issues that are worrying you today.  That's one of the things I tell myself when I feel discouraged with school.


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## LadyRaider (Feb 3, 2010)

Get a wig.


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 3, 2010)

OP it would be tremendously helpful if you posted a pic of your typical bun and maybe make it a head to toe shot of an outfit you'd typically wear.

I think if not only she but your family tell you the bun isn't flattering then maybe they're right. Just because a style is cute on the next lady doesn't mean it'll compliment your features.

To me switching up a style to ascend in a company is no biggie, just research healthy ways to achieve it. 

The corporate culture at your particular company is chic professional, to compete you would do well to satisfy the corporate culture especially untill you get much higher up in the firm.

I definitely wouldn't compromise a promotion over a style...I mean seriously.


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## Lola Laughs (Feb 3, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> I agree with Ivonnovi set up a quiet tete a tete with the boss to know where she is coming from. Then you will be more at peace with your decision. I would not want to say something bad about your boss especially if she is really trying to help you out, she might also not understand why the issue bothers you. A discussion would help you both be on the same page. I hope your boss is not trying to pimp you.
> 
> Best,
> Almond Eyes


 
I'd think hard before setting up another meeting with the boss.  She has already been very clear about her expectations.  Unfortunately this may cause her to question your priorities if you can't take direction on a seemingly small issue (to her) like hair ---it may even irritate her.  Don't count on her being sensitive to the issue.


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## Rastafarai (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:
			
		

> i'm all for leaving my hair down. i just get nervous about giving my hair constant attention (styling it) and trying to retain length/grow it longer. its a little past bottom of bra strap now. i had a major set back a year ago that i'm trying to recover from.
> 
> *i want to know the best way to style my hair so i can wear it down/make it look great everyday WHILE continuing to nuture and protect it*.



Looks like OP made her decision and I couldn't agree more. Play the game, girl. We all have to, not only as women but as black women. 

I suggest pin curls, soft curls, half wigs and phony ponies. And if you are ever tempted to wear the bun again, dress it up with accesories or be really creative, maybe even using fake buns to create styles like this:


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## Rastafarai (Feb 3, 2010)

Here's another style suggestion from one of our own members:

http://public.fotki.com/1QTPie/2009/100-1110.html


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## hillytmj (Feb 3, 2010)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Wear your hair down until you get the promotion and stay on top of moisturizing your ends. In the mean time, find some youtube updo tutorials so that you can start doing some protective styles that vary from your slicked back style.
> 
> You can be indignant after you can start spending that promotion money.


 
ITA...I wouldn't lose my promotion over my hair.


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## MissLawyerLady (Feb 3, 2010)

Rastafarai said:


> Play the game, girl. We all have to, not only as women but as black women.


 
This is so true!  Do what you need to do to get where you want to be; once you're the boss you can do what you want to with your hair.

The ladies have given you great suggestions and pretty examples of buns.  I hope everything works out well for you.


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## werenumber2 (Feb 3, 2010)

The last office I worked at, I wore my hair in a bun every day. EVERY DAY. Why? Because I didn't consider it to be a career job, I worked with all women, and I wasn't attracted to any of our customers. Basically, I kept my hair in a bun because I didn't feel as if there was anyone there worth impressing or worth looking "cute" for. Now at the previous office before that? I was way more invested in how I looked. I dressed nicer, would wear my contacts from time to time and...I wore my hair down more often.

The point is, I'm sure no one else in your office knows there is a "deeper" reason for you to wear a bun every day. They're wondering why you're wearing the same "old and tired" style day in and day out. It's obvious the OP works in an office environment where fashion and style are highly regarded. Your boss is trying to tell in so many words - try harder.


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## Mook's hair (Feb 3, 2010)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Wear your hair down until you get the promotion and stay on top of moisturizing your ends.  In the mean time, find some youtube updo tutorials so that you can start doing some protective styles that vary from your slicked back style.
> 
> You can be indignant after you can start spending that promotion money.



I agree with the above!

That story you told OP is some straight Bulldunk!!! 
But, I'd like to know more about why you don't think you do a good job making buns.


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## Chromia (Feb 3, 2010)

My advice is to wear an updo or to style your bun differently. The pictures posted in this thread are great suggestions.

Here's some helpful info:
Naturals that Flat Iron...Please Advise 
Naturals who STAY straightened? Why? 
Straight Hair Naturals Support Thread
Congratulations to February 2009 Feature of the month - Pinkskates

Unless and until you start your own business or find a job at a different company it's best to wear your hair in a way that will help you get promoted and make more money at this company. It shouldn't be that way but unfortunately that's the way it is.


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## hairaboutit (Feb 3, 2010)

I didn't read all the comments but here's my 2 cents.  I work in corp. america and to be honest "image" is apart of the game.  I wore my hair in braids and got passed up for 2 promotions (I am 100% sure it I was the best candidate, w/ reviews to prove it.) On the 3rd go-round I took my braids out and got the job. 

I don't respect that you have to do that for the promotion but at least you got a heads-up from ur boss... I say don't risk career advancement for a hairstyle.  Try rollersets or another style (even a sew-in weave) to protect ur tresses and a month or so after ur in that new position, go back to bunning. 

Good Luck and I hope u get the promotion.


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## hairaboutit (Feb 3, 2010)

stellagirl76 said:


> I don't think that BIG BAD BOSS is the problem. I think that the system is the problem and the example that we have been setting as black women is the problem.
> 
> *I think boss is just telling it as it is and trying to get her staff promoted.* Its not in Boss lady's interest not to have her staff progress as she also will not progress. My guess is that Boss lady knows she is or soon will be up for promotion but usually one of the pre-requisites for that is that your own staff are also progressing.
> 
> ...


 

Well Said, Stellagirl76!!!


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## almond eyes (Feb 3, 2010)

You don't set up a meeting to discuss hair, you have a meeting to tell her thank you for the advice about the promotion and that you would like to talk more about what she feels are other issues you should work on and then with that pretext you can hear where she is coming from about the bun issue.

I work in a high powered environment too (I am on break at the moment) and I have mostly always worn natural hair or braid extensions and I have always done well. I am also exposed to international people on a high level as well as Europeans and Asians. I am fortunate that I have never had to make these compromises or feel that I needed to. There have been some days when my hair is not on point (hair looks poofy or shrunken) but it has never stopped me from moving in my career. 
Buns are seen as super professional and not about whether one looks good in it or not so that is truly surprising. Does your boss want you to have a sexier image?if so I would be highly concerned about that. In most work places, wearing hair out is not the norm or seen as professional especially if hair is longer than SL; especially for women professionals. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## Lola Laughs (Feb 3, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> *You don't set up a meeting to discuss hair*, you have a meeting to tell her thank you for the advice about the promotion and that you would like to talk more about what she feels are other issues you should work on and then with that pretext you can hear where she is coming from about the bun issue.


 
Thanks for clarifying Almond.


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## Eritreladiee (Feb 3, 2010)

Yes, i definitely think you could wear your hair out and still keep your hair healthy and retain length. 

I think so long as you're doing weekly oil treatments and dc's your hair should be in good shape. If you're going to wear your 3b/c curls out 5x's/week, then be sure to stay away from heat altogether, as well as gels, mousse, cones, etc. Also, cowashing on a daily basis will really help with ensuring you hair gets enough moisture. 

you could cowash in the morning, or if you're concerned about time or the winter weather, you could do your hair at night. Cowash, apply a good quality thick creamy leave-in, brush upside down, and put your hair in a very high loose bun, wrap, go to bed and in the morning, take down, refresh with water and seal with some oil, focusing on the ends. trust me, if you're really taking care and listening to your hair, you could retain length without protective styling-- and of course you can protective style in the evenings and weekends if you want

and as people already mentioned, roller sets are a really good idea. now would be a good time to start practicing. i don't know how many days a week you workout, but i'm sure you could work it out.   

i know it's upsetting, but just try to stay positive and creative about it and i'm sure you'll figure out methods and styles that suit you and work with your lifestyle. just take this whole ordeal as a blessing in disguise, cuz i bet in the end you'll still have healthy hair, be retaining length and just look better doing it. Plus, you have a promotion to look forward to . Good luck!


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## almond eyes (Feb 3, 2010)

While I am all for black female empowerment, I don't want anyone losing jobs or promotions. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## Mizani_Mrs (Feb 3, 2010)

I agree with the phony bun thing.  I used to do this also and i always got sooo many compliments.  instead of using a phony pony, I'd just buy a cheap weft of long body-waved hair.  then i'd wrap it around my real ponytail, like a long pony, then i'd wrap the long hair around the bun. it was always so big, full and pretty.  

your situation does sound offensive.  BUT to be honest...being that all of your peers look the part, then i would automatically assume that i would need to look the part in order to play their game and move up.  I'd be more offended if everyone came to the office busted and her comment was random.  





arosieworld said:


> What if you just got a fake bun or a phony pony and bun it. A lot of people like buns if they are full and substantial. My mother hates my RL bun but I have a phony pony I wrap into a big bun and she loves it and says I look like a ballerina. See if they like it and then you can compromise.


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## january noir (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> my boss is korean. i did the weave thing as a protective style/way to make my hair look great daily - however, my hair didn't seem to love it. my hair got significantly thinner and that's 1 of the reasons why i'm simply washing and bunning now. (plus i'm on a personal 6 month, no heat challenge which was supposed to end march 6th, but now....) i really don't know. i'm mad, i'm sad...all these opinions make me feel like i look ugly when i bun.




It would help us figure this out if you let us see a picture of you wearing your bun and when it's down.

I wear my hair in creative updos everyday. I use clips or hair pins - no ponytail holders or bobby pins sticking out either.   My hair doesn't look good down to me so I wear it up and no one has ever said anything like that to me.  I would be upset too, but try not to let that get you down.   That's your bosses OPINION, not necessarily the TRUTH.


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 3, 2010)

Oh and just to give you some hope, I'm a 4a/b natural tightly coily with a tendency to be dry and I have worn my hair straightened for years on end in certain periods and still successfully retained length and maintained the health of my strands. So as a 3b/c sista and the fact that you can just rollerset and wrap I think you can definitely do this and still reach all your goals

I'm a hair fanatic, but no way is it anywhere near as important as achieving success in your career. Aint nothing more empowering then a promotion and raise lol.


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## TeeWhyAre (Feb 3, 2010)

Lucky's Mom said:


> Are there ANY pics of your hair????




i NEED to see the pic of this bun that is being called unprofessional. I go to work every day with my bun and have never been told I was unprofessional. I can't imagine it. Imma need some pitchas. Maybe they are on the pages I haven't read yet.


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## SistaSista (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm sorry that you are going through this.  I think that buns are appropriate for the workplace if done neatly and creatively.  I myself was in a rut for a while trying to protect my hair with my daily bun.  But this bun does nothing for my appearance.  My mother HATES it.  She calls is my "go to hell ponytail".  

So I started wearing halfwigs and wearing makeup everyday.  You wouldn't believe the amount of compliments I've been receiving. I'm having so much fun picking out the different wigs to wear to work.  I try to switch it up every week to avoid getting in another rut. I believe it's very important for you to look your best especially if you are meeting clients on a regular basis.  

I hope you can find something that works for you.



wyldcurlz said:


> i thought so too. guess we're wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## *CherryPie* (Feb 3, 2010)

Wear your hair down and get your promotion. It is not that serious. This is not a time to fight.


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## Jewell (Feb 3, 2010)

WTF?  Unless your career centers around appearance, i.e. dancer, model, performer, entertainer, etc.  What the hell is wrong with a bun?  In my opinion, a bun is the epitome of a professional hair do.  I was actually TOLD TO WEAR MY HAIR IN A BUN for an interview with an ultra conservative phone co-op company years back. I did, with the black skirt suit, button earrings, pumps, and got the job.  Same for a job as a teller with a national bank.  But, while working, though I had "face time" with customers daily, I was never reprimanded about my hair!!  IDK about the super and the parents, but I would be mad as hell about it.

I would not pass up the promo for my hair style, but I WOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHETHER I WANT TO STAY WITH THIS COMPANY.  Basically, I'd take the promo, work it out for a while, then secretly plot my transition to another company.  After not so long, they'd have my 2 wk notice.  It ain't that serious for her to possibly deny you a promo over a goddang bun!!!! {FUMES}  And, the parents need to understand that you care more about health of your hair than what style THEY like on you.

You can rock your hair down and out and still keep it healthy, just look at the oodles of ladies on here who don't always PS, and keep the hair NICE.  Example: Sylver2

Also, I think there is some underlying issue the boss may have with you.  That hair style may be the only reason she could legitimately come up with as to how to possibly pass you up for a promo.  You said you're the only Afram lady there.  So, I hope the issue isn't, "Well, let me tell this little black girl bout her hair, cuz she obviously has no clue." (<--possible underlying sentiment from the supervisor).  I definitely wouldn't put it past her.  It seems very trivial to consult you over your bun.


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> Put my head on the chopping block, wear the hair down and conform to get the promo but I think there is more to this story than meets the eye and you will come to find out eventually. I don't think your boss is trying to help you be fashion forward. I think she is being condescending. You are fortunate that you have a hair texture that can do a wash and set easily.
> 
> Best,
> Almond Eyes



I agree about the "fashion forward" being nonsense.  There's more to this story.


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## TeeWhyAre (Feb 3, 2010)

Rastafarai said:


> Looks like OP made her decision and I couldn't agree more. Play the game, girl. We all have to, not only as women but as black women.
> 
> I suggest pin curls, soft curls, half wigs and phony ponies. And if you are ever tempted to wear the bun again, dress it up with accesories or be really creative, maybe even using fake buns to create styles like this:




i really like that one.it looks very polished.


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

Esq.2B said:


> Should she quit over a hairstyle?



Yes, yes she should.

I know I'm in the minority and it's a recession and all, but I have deep reservations about this woman's "advice".  What next?  Your skins too dark how about this bleaching cream?  Could you wear more form fitting clothes?  How about a blouse that shows more cleavage when you're meeting with our male clients?

Oh, in addition to the daily straight hair can you lighten it up a few shades and add some blonde streaks?

The supervisor only brought this hair issue up "after" she saw her at a weekend company outing.  She knows she can't legally demand she wear her hair in a style, but she can passive/aggressive threaten her with being denied a "promotion " over it.  Witch!

Funny thing is, what if the op does all of this and this "promotion" never materializes?

What if she does the half/full wig/phoney pony thing and the supervisor STILL has a freakin problem?  Then what?

Sometimes you need to take a stand on some things.


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## Glamorous_chic (Feb 3, 2010)

while most of the time buns are the epitome of professional looks, they can look sloppy. when i started my job, i was trying to protective style.  i have a professional career in healthcare, but i didnt really feel like i needed to look good for anyone. so i would wet bun my hair slicked back. i'd wash my hair, slick it back in a ponytail and wear it in a bun. i didnt wear make up (what for?? lol) no one said anything to me about it. but i knew i looked bad. lol. when i looked in the mirror i knew.  so, i know for a fact, not all buns look good for those that don't understand.

my bangs were cut short the previous summer and im transitioning. so when i'd leave the house, my hair would be slicked down and sleek, but by the end of the day, my roots had puffed up, and i'd have this puffy hump. well, after getting my hair blown out for a random length check, everyone went crazy over my hair. i got soo many compliments. i noticed how i got soo many more friendly smiles, hi's, how you doing, how's your day. it was crazy.   after talking to my friends about it, they agreed, i dont look good with my hair pulled all the way back. i look better with bangs or a swoop. i took that advice to heart, b/c i knew it was the truth. long story short, sometimes we do just have to face the facts that not all hair styles look nice on everyone, and you do have to be honest with yourself.


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## jada1111 (Feb 3, 2010)

Glamorous_chic said:


> while most of the time buns are the epitome of professional looks, they can look sloppy. when i started my job, i was trying to protective style.  i have a professional career in healthcare, but i didnt really feel like i needed to look good for anyone. so i would wet bun my hair slicked back. i'd wash my hair, slick it back in a ponytail and wear it in a bun. i didnt wear make up (what for?? lol) no one said anything to me about it. but i knew i looked bad. lol. when i looked in the mirror i knew.  so, i know for a fact, not all buns look good for those that don't understand.
> 
> *well, after getting my hair blown out for a random length check, everyone went crazy over my hair. i got soo many compliments. i noticed how i got soo many more friendly smiles, hi's, how you doing, how's your day. it was crazy. *  after talking to my friends about it, they agreed, i dont look good with my hair pulled all the way back. i look better with bangs or a swoop. i took that advice to heart, b/c i knew it was the truth. long story short, sometimes we do just have to face the facts that not all hair styles look nice on everyone, and you do have to be honest with yourself.



Not to negate your experience but straight hair will ALWAYS be loved by people, because it's what we have been CONDITIONED to believe for YEARS.  If I wore my hair straight, I'm quite sure folks would be all 'googoo gaga" over it, because it's rare that I do it and it's the PREFERRED look.  I know for a fact I would get "you should wear your hair like that more often", which is why I will NEVER wear it like that on job.  If I ever do decide to straighten (which probably won't ever happen anyway, because I don't dig the look anymore for MYSELF) it will be on the weekends where I can change up by Monday.


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## hola_lo2002 (Feb 3, 2010)

Your job should be based on your skills and not your appearance. But sonce we live in a superficial world,i guess you'll have to find a way to keep your hair healthy while changing your hairdo. I heard of keratin treatment on the forum. I don't know if it's a chemical, but I think it protects hair from heat. So if you're planning on rollersetting with heat, it might be a good option. Good luck


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## Glamorous_chic (Feb 3, 2010)

i do understand that people will always prefer straight hairstyles. and while that is true, i've accepted that i dont always look as attractive to certain people with my hair straight back. when i wear bangs or a swoop, it doesn't seem to be as bad. maybe b/c i have a huge forehead. lol. and also that sometiems buns aren't always sleek put together hair styles. sometimes they can look like crap. b/c i finally had to realize mine looked like crap , specifically when i did wet buns. they looked fine if i blowdried my hair first though. but wet bunning was a nono.


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## JayAnn0513 (Feb 3, 2010)

TeeWhyAre said:


> i NEED to see the pic of this bun that is being called unprofessional. I go to work every day with my bun and have never been told I was unprofessional. I can't imagine it. Imma need some pitchas. Maybe they are on the pages I haven't read yet.




Honestly most people don't care enough about your professional advancement to tell you your hairstyle, dress, makeup are holding you back.  I have white coworker who wear a messy nasty ratty fake pony on the top of her head every day. She good at her job, but I've seen the way people look at her hair when she's not looking. She's not getting a promotion with that hair don't on top of her head. When i first met her I would stare at the back of her head trying to figure out WTF she was thinking when she left the house in the morning. I wish I could get a pic and post it. It's that bad. No cares enough to tell her she looks like a darn fool.


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## naturalmanenyc (Feb 3, 2010)

A bun is the epitome of a professional hairstyle. What in the world is she talking about - a bun NOT professional?!?!

Without knowing what field you are in and without seeing your bun, I cannot comment on going to HR. I do agree that your hairstyle should have no bearing on your promotion but that is just not the case in American society. Hair does play a role in employment decisions as some styles are just viewed as "unprofessional" or "back office" looks.erplexed

I am not sure if you and your boss are "friends" but if so, then maybe your bun does need some work given that your parents also made comments about your bun.

It took me years of relaxing & weaving to "fit in" at my old law firm. A job change is the only reason that I finally felt comfortable enough to wear my natural hair. I have worn cornrows (in a bun in fact) to work at my current company with no problem. I happened to attend a company sponsored event for African Americans and out of the 400 company employees at that event, I was the only one in cornrows. It was no problem at all. 

My boss recently did my year end review and she raised the issue of a promotion as well as potential international work. If my boss or anyone in the office for that matter made a similar statement to me, I'd be on the phone with the EEOC that day right after documenting my complaint with HR in writing with a few copies saved on a thumb drive to keep at home. Then again, my boss is a Black woman and everyone in the office is intrigued by my many changing hairstyles. Not to mention, they probably think that I'd sue the company - which I would

Depending on if your bun skills honestly need work, I would go with option 2 below and work on my bunning skills. Youtube has some great bun tutorials.



Aspire said:


> I am so sorry this happened to you. I can tell you that I experience a similar issue young in my career.
> 
> How you handle this is going to be based on your experience in the workplace. Here are some options you might consider . . .
> 
> ...


 


wyldcurlz said:


> so i got ripped a NEW one after a work meeting today. my boss tells me she wants to put me up for a promotion but tells that my hair is "unprofessional" and that it "doesn't make me look my best with my hair slicked back" and that she needs me looking a certain way and "feeling confident" before she "moves forward with the (promotion) process." she went onto tell me how beautiful my hair looked when i wore it down at a company MLB event and "why don't i wear it like that all the time??" we have a corporate dinner tomorrow night and they (parents + boss) are mad that i'm not going to "press my hair" instead choosing to wear a bun.
> 
> so, i run home to mommy and daddy and what happened? my parents co-signed: "that crunchy bun doesn't flatter your face..." "your roots stick up" "...you used to wear your hair down more often do that." blah, blah, blah...
> 
> ...


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 3, 2010)

jada1111 said:


> Yes, yes she should.
> 
> I know I'm in the minority and it's a recession and all, but I have deep reservations about this woman's "advice".  What next?  Your skins too dark how about this bleaching cream?  Could you wear more form fitting clothes?  How about a blouse that shows more cleavage when you're meeting with our male clients?
> 
> ...


Its important to recognize that there is a time and place for everything and one must pick their battles. Otherwise all you'll have to show for yourself at the end of the day is your pride and a negative balance on your bank account.

Its also important to see events within the context of degrees you can't just have reflex attitudes and assumptions in reaction to every request that is made of you from your superiors and automatically jump to rascism. , she made *no *mention of the woman being regularly mean-spirited toward her. Other races simply don't have the awareness of what it takes for us to get our hair straight so she probably assumes she's making a minor request that will allow her to ascend in the company more seamlessly.

You also have to keep in mind what your bargaining position is, when you're working your way up, you have to make reasonable compromises and do your best to fit into the culture of your firm, by the time you get a pretigious position, your repertoire will speak for itself and you'll be in a better position to stray from the norm.

Its not that serious to just wear your hair down more now....she can still reach her goals with rollersetting and satisfy the cultural expectations of her firm a the same time.


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## Vashti (Feb 3, 2010)

It depends on what's important to you and what the particular situation is. I've been on crappy jobs where people paid me chump change with no benefits and had the nerve to have a problem with me when I wore my hair natural. I have the tendency to tell people to go to "You Know Where" but that's just me. I'm not a corporate, company girl type.

Depending on the type of job it is, how you feel about the people you work with and the benefits you receive it might be best to make a compromise (a good quality wig or hair piece maybe?) and get that cash. If the promotion never materializes though, it's time to look for another job. Don't just jump to conclusions about what your boss is thinking but don't let them jerk you around on a chain either. I hope your situation gets resolved in a way that is advantageous to you wyldcurlz!


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## imaccami (Feb 3, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> excuse the tangent above, anyway, my main problem is figuring out what to do wtih my hair right now. worse yet, *there's little to nothing i can do for this big event tomorrow (make that, tonight!)* i'm really wondering though, how to style natural hair that gets workout sweaty 3-4 days/week. even if i rearranged my workouts.


 


> *a big part of my job is to entertain clients - i guess that means being eye candy for them*, so maybe that's where the full court press comes from? also, as i mentioned before, *most of the girls in my industry are the LV/Chloe bag carrying, trendy, full hair & makeup everyday type of girls*


 
Are these events at night? Hmmm, I would really like to see a picture of your bun, I'm not sure a "conditioner bun" will cut it at night when everyone else is in full hair and make-up.



> And I understand, i'm not a fan of the bun either. *its just easier for me to slick it back with some condish and pull it into a bun.*


 
I don't want to sound mean, but it would be easier for everyone. Every one of your co-workers would like to do the easy thing and look ok but not great for these big events but they don't. You don't get to be the exception. If everyone else has to take the time and make the effort so do you.

Your hair is BSL? can you put in a ponytail on top of your head so that it won't touch your shoulders?


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## kami02 (Feb 3, 2010)

I think you should treat this promotion opportunity as a job interview - a 24/7 interview. How did you look on that interview to get the job in the first place? Now that you want a "new" job with the company, you need to treat it the same way and give it your all. 

Use your judgment on how to wear your hair. I personally don't like wearing buns because it tends to look like I put no effort into my appearance. One of my best friends, however, looks like a runway model when she wears a bun. So take an honest assessment of your current style. Maybe you don't need to straighten it, but take a more stylish approach to your bun. And even if you do need to wear it out, you don't necessarily need to straighten it and even if you do, you can decide when its most important to look your "best." (Not to say straight hair is best, but you know...)


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## angellike (Feb 3, 2010)

um maybe wear a braid


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## jada1111 (Feb 4, 2010)

BlackMasterPiece said:


> Its important to recognize that there is a time and place for everything and one must pick their battles. Otherwise all you'll have to show for yourself at the end of the day is your pride and a negative balance on your bank account.
> 
> Its also important to see events within the context of degrees you can't just have reflex attitudes and assumptions in reaction to every request that is made of you from your superiors and automatically jump to rascism. , she made *no *mention of the woman being regularly mean-spirited toward her. Other races simply don't have the awareness of what it takes for us to get our hair straight so she probably assumes she's making a minor request that will allow her to ascend in the company more seamlessly.
> 
> ...



I get what you're saying BMP, really I do, but... 

I don't know how "messy" and "unkempt" the OP's bun is (I'm still trying to figure out how the simplest and most conservative style in the universe can be called "unprofessional" or "messy", but I'll save that for another thread).

I'm just thinking about being in the OP's shoes.  Say, I straighten my hair on the day in question for a company outing not thinking anything of it, but just seeking a change.  Up until that time, no word has been said or mentioned regarding my hair.  Nothing.  All of a sudden I get back to work to hear I'm up for a "promotion", but I need to keep my hair like how I wore it over the weekend for some bullcrap reason to keep the "clients" happy.  Yeah, right.  

It's like I'm being blackmailed into damaging my hair on a daily, weekly basis to get some "future" promotion that may or may not exist.  Again, what if the OP wears nice, professionally styled weaves, wigs, etc. (which wouldn't be a problem in matching her 3ish hair texture) and there's STILL a freakin' issue?  It starts off with things like this, then it escalates.  I feel she needs to document this conversation and speak to someone at the EEOC.  I don't trust company HRs, because they're usually on the side of the MANAGER not the employee.  I've heard not to pleasant stories of "set ups".

It's not just "hair" to me.  I've spent seven years growing out my natural hair and there's no way I would straighten it to appease someone who hired me with it in its natural state.

Anyway, the OP's decided to change so there's nothing left to be said and I seriously hope she gets this promised "promotion" at the expense of potentially damaging her hair.  

I see things differently, but I respect yours and everyone else's opinion that she should conform.  I understand the reasons why, but there are still principals involved here.  Most black women have afro-textured hair that is different from all the other races.  We need to learn to work with what we have naturally.  There are beautiful professional natural hairstyles in fotkis and on youtube.

I wear my hair out 99% of the time, because that's how I like it and I make sure that it always looks neat, moisturized and healthy.  If it takes two or three products to get it that way, then two or three products it is.  My hair will NEVER look busted when I leave the house.  I don't just "wash n go".  I wash, distribute styling product on sectioned wet hair, style the way I want, diffuse for a few minutes, fluff some more for fullness THEN go.  45 minute routine every THREE DAYS.


----------



## Dak (Feb 4, 2010)

OP, roller setting could give you a style for a week to a week and a half.  PM me if you'd like some help learning how to do it.


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## werenumber2 (Feb 4, 2010)

OP - You mentioned that you wore your hair "down" for an event. Is your boss expecting you to wear your hair out of the bun and STRAIGHTENED or just out of the bun? Those are two very different things.


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## aquajoyice (Feb 4, 2010)

This sounds like a potential lawsuit if you ask me. I wish someone would tell me not to wear my bun.


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## luckiestdestiny (Feb 4, 2010)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Wear your hair down until you get the promotion and stay on top of moisturizing your ends.  In the mean time, find some youtube updo tutorials so that you can start doing some protective styles that vary from your slicked back style.
> 
> You can be indignant after you can start spending that promotion money.



Side note: It's awful that you're put in this position.


I think you can also think about ways to wear your hair up (half the time.) Maybe three days out of the week it's up. Like Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays, or pick a day but yo get the point. Then for four days out of the week it's down.   The last day it's down you exercise, and also your other up days (sorry it's in a row, but hey you want the promotion, then worry about the rest later, especially if  you area willing to adjust your hair which you seem.
Make bun day instantly stylish with head bands, and youtube practice. Even witg h curly hair (I'm natural too and need options, these headbands can add style to your look and make you hip, but sophisticated. They can also help when your hair is going everywhere and you want it to look sleeker for work, by just smoothing out the silhouette. So even if it's curly, it'll look work appropriate in the manner she's thinking of. Do it right, and you might can manage two-three bun days a week and then on weekends.

Fake it, if you don't know how to make cute buns w/ accessories: headbands















silk like material of course^^^ not cotton










also one thing I've done in  the  past, a quick cornrow of sides (divide bang from deep part, and divide all he way over past ear, start braiding) and then back into a bun or high ponytail. The braids make the hairstyle more streamlined. It's fast to do and you just whip the rest into a bun or  high pony. Great when my hair is straightened  or curly. It's easy to do:












and curly  pony with headband. You can do higher go it doesn't brush your clothes(ends)  




With styles like these, your boss will be happy and so will you, plus it's not hard to do.At the very least adding a cute headband here and there will help, and make your bun look mores stylish. Depending on how "hip" your office will determine the look, but these are more pics to show how buns can  change their look w/ different accessories. Your work environment will of course determine the ones you choose.  But I'm willing to bet that your boss'  problem is with lack of style  over bun.Maybe dressed up you could  get away with them more and stay on track to your goals.


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## luckiestdestiny (Feb 4, 2010)

^^^^Suggestions above are only if you aren't heading straight to hr for a fight.  I realize that we all must pick our battles, and you might think this is one you need to fight. IF not, I hope the suggestions above help.


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## dicapr (Feb 4, 2010)

A bun can be unprofessional.  I wore a bun yesterday that was sooo bad!  I did look half done and if I worked in a professional office I could see it being a problem.  I also cannot wet bun and have my hair look good. I need to do a light blowdry or else my bun is lumpy which = unkept.  OP may just need to practice her bunning skills or switch to a more flattering protective style.


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## Vintageglam (Feb 4, 2010)

jada1111 said:


> *Yes, yes she should.*




Jada1111 do you really think this is a good idea?  I mean it's not like we are not disadvantaged enough as black women ?

I hope you are willing to pay OP's bills when the shyte hits the fan.  I think this sort of advice is a bit irresponsible.

See the thing I don't get is this.  There are a few here in this post saying "Oh I would go to HR"  "Raise  a Law Suit" etc etc.

If you work in a partiulcar field you live and die on your reputation. Get yourself labelled as a problem and you can kiss your career goodbye.  Bosses of corps talk.  I have seen it with my own eyes.  They will ring each other up for a "quick chat" to circumvent employment laws on bad references.  And if they really hate your arse and wants to *** you they will schedule lunch and wine and dine your future employer and lay all your ish out to bare.  In  this day of company risk management and avoiding law suits black people already suffer a disadvantage so really do you think kicking up a stink is the best way to resolve this.

Ultimately if OP is not happy in this environment it is for her to make those decisions.  But over your hair????  This is not the way to loose a bright a promising career for which you can one day shape the future and change the things you didn't like for the future generations.

Our mothers and the black women before us suffered so that we could even step into the workplace.  Is this how we will pay them?



BlackMasterPiece said:


> Its important to recognize that there is a time and place for everything and one must pick their battles. Otherwise all you'll have to show for yourself at the end of the day is your pride and a negative balance on your bank account.
> 
> Its also important to see events within the context of degrees you can't just have reflex attitudes and assumptions in reaction to every request that is made of you from your superiors and automatically jump to rascism. , she made *no *mention of the woman being regularly mean-spirited toward her. Other races simply don't have the awareness of what it takes for us to get our hair straight so she probably assumes she's making a minor request that will allow her to ascend in the company more seamlessly.
> 
> ...



Thankyou


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## DeepBluSea (Feb 4, 2010)

Wow.  It is very disheartening when I read threads like this.   It just goes to show it's not "just hair."


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## OhmyKimB (Feb 4, 2010)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Wear your hair down until you get the promotion and stay on top of moisturizing your ends. In the mean time, find some youtube updo tutorials so that you can start doing some protective styles that vary from your slicked back style.
> 
> You can be indignant after you can start spending that promotion money.


 


I'm sorry. I agree with this though. Normally I really want to just tell you that you should go ahead and do your thing. But wear it down probably won't be so bad, just keep it really moisturized and switch back and forth between buns and other styles.


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## OhmyKimB (Feb 4, 2010)

stellagirl76 said:


> Jada1111 do you really think this is a good idea? I mean it's not like we are not disadvantaged enough as black women ?
> 
> I hope you are willing to pay OP's bills when the shyte hits the fan. I think this sort of advice is a bit irresponsible.
> 
> ...


 

I agree. I WAS transitioning, and I was all in to it as well. However my old boss and my mom made it clear that until I have CPA behind my name I need to look however I need to look. Once I have some type of credentials that prove something else. But I work right now in a small office I'm the youngest black female here and the other two have thin over processed hair. I'm going to try to find a balance to my hair health. I was wearing buns but as soon as I took them out it's like the air changed.



ETA: My old boss is AA and has long beautiful hair down her back. Her hair is not over processed and although I don't agree with her practices there is nothing I can say. She does look after me like a niece so listening to her and my mother helped me just decide that right now I should be happy that my internship even hired me, and that I do need to watch my apperance.  I did wear buns a lot and right now I'm trying to just keep it styled. It does change things, whether I believe it should or not is not the point. My apperance makes a difference in the way people respond to me. I can't change anything as a little accounting assistant trying to finish degrees, but as a CPA running things I can. My hair has been growing for 23 years so at any time I can stop stick white creamy crack in it. Right now I don't need anything that stops me from my career.


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## topnotch1010 (Feb 4, 2010)

ITA with the whole post. OP don't let some of these responses gas you up. Blackballing is real. Don't lose your career over some "hur"!




stellagirl76 said:


> Jada1111 do you really think this is a good idea?  I mean it's not like we are not disadvantaged enough as black women ?
> 
> I hope you are willing to pay OP's bills when the shyte hits the fan.  I think this sort of advice is a bit irresponsible.
> 
> ...


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## Maynard (Feb 4, 2010)

I wonder how many of the ladies who are yelling "Call HR", "Uh uh Girl, No he didn't"

*actually work *in corporate America and which ones are college students/burger flippers/entry level etc?

Just curious.


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## jada1111 (Feb 4, 2010)

stellagirl76 said:


> J*ada1111 do you really think this is a good idea?  I mean it's not like we are not disadvantaged enough as black women ?*



And that right there is the problem Stella.  We will always be at a disadvantage for one thing or another.  

Anyway, the OP said she wants to stay on work on her hair "problem" and I support her decision.  I just hope the so-called "promotion" materializes.

I'm not like the rest of you.  I understand COMPLETELY why you believe the way you do, but I don't agree with it.


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## Junebug D (Feb 4, 2010)

Gin said:


> I wonder how many of the ladies who are yelling "Call HR", "Uh uh Girl, No he didn't"
> 
> *actually work *in corporate America and which ones are college students/burger flippers/entry level etc?
> 
> Just curious.


 
That reminds me of the thread where people were telling this lady to leave her husband because he didn't like her natural hair styles.


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## luckiestdestiny (Feb 4, 2010)

I don't agree with it but that still doesn't change what I think she should do since she already seems like she knows what she wants.  If I were in her shoe  and willing to address the issue
 I'd find a way to keep to my plan but style it up a little. Just a note that  in this type of job, HR
 could cause problems, though I support whatever OtP decides, because a reputation is important.  It's important to choose battles wisely. This doesn't seem like something she wants to get  ruffled about 
from her post. I do believe that people talk, and so do companies. I do believe it may make her life more "difficult" by complaining, then just making minor adjustments.  This to me doesn't seem like a fight if she's not wiling. 

As for this being racism:
IMO boss could have said this to another office member (of another race) whose hair wasn't up to par in her opinion. IS it right? No. But fact is scientifically we are judged by our appearance within seconds. The boss said what others only dare to think. Even OP said her buns aren't the greatest.  That's why I suggested ways to make them more stylish with headband accessories, and also wearing her hair down more as well.  In an ideal  world people should just look at our work ethic, but this isn't heaven. We will be judged on appearance, work ethic, and even sociable skills. There are many work horses who are brilliant but left behind for promotions (I know plenty in corporate america as well as more creative endeavors) because of other things which they refuse to acknowledge (appearance, and social skills necessary).  This applies in corporate but also creative jobs too.  We have to always put our best foot forward.  That means those "not the greatest buns" should be updated anyways.

  I don't think that she should compromise her beliefs so to speak which is why I posted options that can dress up her hair in my previous post while maintaining her bun. I think she just needs to make it more fashionably work appropriate and then her superior won't have a problem.  I think her boss pointed to her hair when it was down because it was on point on that day.


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## Lola Laughs (Feb 4, 2010)

OP, I truly hope you get the promotion.  Clearly your boss sees your potential and is trying to groom (no pun intended) you for advancement.  Months from now (I hope) you won't even remember what all the fuss was about.

Just know that as you advance in your career, the "request" to conform doesn't go away, sometimes is gets worse.  You may someday find yourself in a similar situation as your boss and needing to ask one of your reports to make changes.  The people who work for you are seen as a reflection of you and how you are able to manage them. 

Good luck


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## LaidBak (Feb 4, 2010)

*I really wish she would post a picture of her bun.  How can we help her fix it if we can't even see it?*

Anyway, I had sympathy toward the begining of the thread.  But I am in a career where* I have sacrificed my hair for the last 14 years*.  I'm in the military and my hair has suffered all kinds of abuse because of situations I've been in.  And to top it off I have to wear my hair in a way that meets the regulations instead of in a way that is healty for my hair.  I would have been a damn fool to quit my career (as one foolish poster suggested) over my hair.  So I say to the OP suck it up change your hair; and if need be, go for MBL once you own the company or you retire.


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## Country gal (Feb 4, 2010)

Gin said:


> I wonder how many of the ladies who are yelling "Call HR", "Uh uh Girl, No he didn't"
> 
> *actually work *in corporate America and which ones are college students/burger flippers/entry level etc?
> 
> Just curious.



I worked in Corporate America. At the time when I went natural I worked for "Fortune magazine Top 10 Lobbyists". I was told by the Company's Attorney General that legally they can not tell me what to do with my hair. I understand that the economy is rough and we have to do what we have to do to succeed. I am so tired of folks always telling us how we should look and dress. I barely read the OP but judging from the title, to me a bun is a very professional look.


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## Rastafarai (Feb 4, 2010)

jada1111 said:


> And that right there is the problem Stella. We will always be at a disadvantage for one thing or another.


 
Not always, Jada. Nothing lasts forever. It usually takes a token black man or token black woman to change that dynamic and best believe the first black man or woman at anything corporate America had to play by the rules and kiss a** while doing it. Sometimes kissing bums require changing your physical appearance. 

Outside of the black tax (working 2x, 3x, 4x harder than your white counterpart), people will judge by your appearance. You become not only a reflection of yourself but more importantly a reflection of the firm/company. It's never about you. It's about the client and selling the company name. If that company has a certain image you're going to have to fall in line and represent that image, especially if meeting with clients. 

But there is strength in numbers. That token black woman or man helps open doors and dreams for other black men and women who thought it impossible to be VP or CFO or Partner or Executive at X company. The more of us on top, the better our chances of calling our own shots and playing by our own rules. 

Until then...."yes ma'am/sir".


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## PeanutButterandHoney (Feb 4, 2010)

LaidBak said:


> *I really wish she would post a picture of her bun. How can we help her fix it if we can't even see it?*
> 
> Anyway, I had sympathy toward the begining of the thread. But I am in a career where* I have sacrificed my hair for the last 14 years*. I'm in the military and my hair has suffered all kinds of abuse because of situations I've been in. And to top it off I have to wear my hair in a way that meets the regulations instead of in a way that is healty for my hair. I would have been a damn fool to quit my career (as one foolish poster suggested) over my hair. So I say to the OP suck it up change your hair; and if need be, go for MBL once you own the company or you retire.


 I honestly and truly think it's the OP's bun (and I don't mean to be mean or snarky)
I've seen some VERY neat looking buns and then I have seen some buns that are not so professional for the following reasons:
-have one of those teenage ouchless bands (look like big rubber bands) around the head. these just aren't for coporate
-are tied with a visible scrunchy. IMO, that is sooo tacky
-unruly edges (this isn't a natural vs. relaxed thang, it is VERY possible to get those edges right even with 4a/b hurr. trust me, I know)
-a serious kitchen. just don't look good with hair gorwin down your neck. if you cant get it to grow long enough to fit in your pony or get it smooth, you should edge it up.
-done with eave that does not match the natural hair type.
- thining edges
- the hair looks dirty and dull
-the surrounding hair is secured with "clips", not invisible-liek bobby pins, but those clips.not a polished look IMO


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## antisocial (Feb 4, 2010)

Gin said:


> I wonder how many of the ladies who are yelling "Call HR", "Uh uh Girl, No he didn't"
> 
> *actually work *in corporate America and which ones are college students/burger flippers/entry level etc?
> 
> Just curious.


 

Exactly because "calling HR" for situations like this might resolve the issue of them saying something about your hair but in a lot of cases it will be the beginning of the end of your career.


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## Charz (Feb 4, 2010)

Gin said:


> I wonder how many of the ladies who are yelling "Call HR", "Uh uh Girl, No he didn't"
> 
> *actually work *in corporate America and which ones are college students/burger flippers/entry level etc?
> 
> Just curious.


 

I am curious too.


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## Rocky91 (Feb 4, 2010)

i have nothing beneficial to add....pretty much all sides/bases have been covered....and my opinion can be gleaned from the posts i thanked. 
good luck, OP! keep us updated!


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## almond eyes (Feb 4, 2010)

The only thing that I gathered from this thread was that as a black woman in America you have to fit into the standard to get ahead and appearances are everything. And I do understand that it is important to look neat at one's job, however, I think many black women can get extremely obsessed with fitting in and therefore believe that the right hairstyle, pricey clothes and jewelry are the keys to happiness and will guarantee the right opportunities. And I don't think so. Brains are extremely important unless one is working in the beauty industry. I am not at all saying that we as black women need to be mouthy and not listen to concerns of supervisors, but what I am saying is that we also need to understand that we end up with severe complexes about what it takes to get ahead and in the end sometimes even the right hairstyles and clothes do not get the promotions or the guy. 

I am African and most of my cousins and many of my African friends in the States are extremely well educated and the majority of them wear natural hair (my sister is bald and is a conference manager at a white firm) and they have been extremely successful in their professions including me and I do analyst international work. I have a good friend who used to work at a white law firm and was the only black woman there and she had the fly relaxer and she was constantly beating herself up about fitting in and using paychecks to buy the imitation LV bags and suits. And yes, she had the successful job but she wasn't that happy. Because she needed to lose a few pounds and had to wear buns most of the time, she would get paranoid about how others were perceiving her hair. And I was like why are you stressing you are one of the best lawyers. I think it's very interesting about how people allow others to treat them, by brains or by the looks. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## Rastafarai (Feb 4, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> The only thing that I gathered from this thread was that as a black woman in America you have to fit into the standard to get ahead and appearances are everything. And I do understand that it is important to look neat at one's job, however, I think many black women can get extremely obsessed with fitting in and therefore believe that the right hairstyle, pricey clothes and jewelry are the keys to happiness and will guarantee the right opportunities. And I don't think so. Brains are extremely important unless one is working in the beauty industry. I am not at all saying that we as black women need to be mouthy and not listen to concerns of supervisors, but what I am saying is that we also need to understand that we end up with severe complexes about what it takes to get ahead and in the end sometimes even the right hairstyles and clothes do not get the promotions or the guy.
> 
> I am African and most of my cousins and many of my African friends in the States are extremely well educated and the majority of them wear natural hair (my sister is bald and is a conference manager at a white firm) and they have been extremely successful in their professions including me and I do analyst international work. I have a good friend who used to work at a white law firm and was the only black woman there and she had the fly relaxer and she was constantly beating herself up about fitting in and using paychecks to buy the imitation LV bags and suits. And yes, she had the successful job but she wasn't that happy. Because she needed to lose a few pounds and had to wear buns most of the time, she would get paranoid about how others were perceiving her hair. And I was like why are you stressing you are one of the best lawyers. I think it's very interesting about how people allow others to treat them, by brains or by the looks.
> 
> ...


 
It totally depends on the place of business. What may work at Conde Nast may not work at Harrison & Shriftman. What may work at Cravath Swaine & Moore LLP may not work at Sullivan & Cromwell LLP. 

Every firm and company has its own culture.

Can't say much on working for the government. I'm sure there are also certain unsaid requirements that one would have to learn by observation.


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## Charz (Feb 4, 2010)

^^ It's one thing to make a stand for something of substance but another thing to make a stand that will threaten your livelihood i.e. losing your job, over some hairstyle. This is deadly especially if you have mouths to feed and bills to pay.

I've been in the corporate environment and appearance and first impressions are everything. *EACH* corporate culture has it's own identity regarding this matter. The manager dude was doing you a favor by telling you. Imagine if he didn't and you got fired over politics because of some hair. 

* They are not telling you to relax your hair or to bleach your skintone. Nor they are telling you to use a separate rest room.*

It's just a hair style change.


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## almond eyes (Feb 4, 2010)

Yes, it is true every job culture is different. So, if black women feel that they need to do all that it takes to fit in then who am I to argue get the relaxers, wear the lacefronts, take out the credit to buy the bags. I don't work for the government by the way. I just find it interesting that in my circle these issues of hair rarely come up. We need to be careful that we are not being sexualised on our jobs because buns are the the epitome of professionalism. Yes, the hair can help but the brains are what counts. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## Charz (Feb 4, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> Yes, it is true every job culture is different. So, if black women feel that they need to do all that it takes to fit in then who am I to argue get the *relaxers, wear the lacefronts, take out the credit to buy the bags.* I don't work for the government by the way. I just find it interesting that in my circle these issues of hair rarely come up.
> 
> Best,
> Almond Eyes


 
You are reaching and overexaggerating. These were not even discussed in the OP.


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## Rastafarai (Feb 4, 2010)

Country gal said:


> I worked in Corporate America. At the time when I went natural I worked for "Fortune magazine Top 10 Lobbyists". I was told by the Company's Attorney General that legally they can not tell me what to do with my hair. I understand that the economy is rough and we have to do what we have to do to succeed. I am so tired of folks always telling us how we should look and dress. I barely read the OP but judging from the title, to me a bun is a very professional look.


 
Legally they can provide suggestions. Her boss was not telling her what to do with her hair. 

What _may_ provide ample reason for a labor lawsuit was if the OP was discriminated against on the basis of a race-related characteristic or condition (ie hair texture). 

Of course, to prove that one was demoted/fired or denied a promotion on the basis of their skin color or hair texture is extremely difficult.


----------



## almond eyes (Feb 4, 2010)

My opinion and I can overreach as much as I like.

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## Rastafarai (Feb 4, 2010)

Charzboss said:


> You are reaching and overexaggerating. These were not even discussed in the OP.


 
That does not make it any less relevant to the discussion at hand.


----------



## addaboutmyhair (Feb 4, 2010)

I don't know if this has been said, but get a lacefront!  Cornrow your hair underneath.  You can take it off and moisturize every night.  you can have a natural part.  You can work out.  And you can make the white people at work feel better because now you look more like them, lol


----------



## jada1111 (Feb 4, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> The only thing that I gathered from this thread was that as a black woman in America you have to fit into the standard to get ahead and appearances are everything. And I do understand that it is important to look neat at one's job, however, I think many black women can get extremely obsessed with fitting in and therefore believe that the right hairstyle, pricey clothes and jewelry are the keys to happiness and will guarantee the right opportunities. And I don't think so. Brains are extremely important unless one is working in the beauty industry. I am not at all saying that we as black women need to be mouthy and not listen to concerns of supervisors, but what I am saying is that we also need to understand that we end up with severe complexes about what it takes to get ahead and in the end sometimes even the right hairstyles and clothes do not get the promotions or the guy.
> 
> I am African and most of my cousins and many of my African friends in the States are extremely well educated and the majority of them wear natural hair (my sister is bald and is a conference manager at a white firm) and they have been extremely successful in their professions including me and I do analyst international work. I have a good friend who used to work at a white law firm and was the only black woman there and she had the fly relaxer and she was constantly beating herself up about fitting in and using paychecks to buy the imitation LV bags and suits. And yes, she had the successful job but she wasn't that happy. Because she needed to lose a few pounds and had to wear buns most of the time, she would get paranoid about how others were perceiving her hair. And I was like why are you stressing you are one of the best lawyers. I think it's very interesting about how people allow others to treat them, by brains or by the looks.
> 
> ...



Your post sums up my feelings perfectly.

Again, I do respect what others like Rasta, BlackMasterPiece, Stella, etc., have said, but after awhile that mess just gets tired.  There will ALWAYS be SOMETHING with "us".  Just saying.

Maybe the OP's buns are a "mess" (_I guess_), I don't know, I'm not around her.  I do know that there are ways of conforming to a "lookism" culture without having to make a part of you unhealthy or go broke doing it.

Almond's post PROVES that and many others I've read on the net.


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## jada1111 (Feb 4, 2010)

Charzboss said:


> ^^ It's one thing to make a stand for something of substance but another thing to make a stand that will threaten your livelihood i.e. losing your job, over some hairstyle. This is deadly especially if you have mouths to feed and bills to pay.
> 
> I've been in the corporate environment and appearance and first impressions are everything. *EACH* corporate culture has it's own identity regarding this matter. The manager dude was doing you a favor by telling you. Imagine if he didn't and you got fired over politics because of some hair.
> 
> ...



For NOW it is.


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## jada1111 (Feb 4, 2010)

addaboutmyhair said:


> I don't know if this has been said, but get a lacefront!  Cornrow your hair underneath.  You can take it off and moisturize every night.  you can have a natural part.  You can work out.  And you can make the white people at work feel better because now you look more like them, lol



Better this than damaging your real hair.

She can always take it off at night and on the weekends.


----------



## TeeWhyAre (Feb 4, 2010)

JayAnn0513 said:


> Honestly most people don't care enough about your professional advancement to tell you your hairstyle, dress, makeup are holding you back.  I have white coworker who wear a messy nasty ratty fake pony on the top of her head every day. She good at her job, but I've seen the way people look at her hair when she's not looking. She's not getting a promotion with that hair don't on top of her head. When i first met her I would stare at the back of her head trying to figure out WTF she was thinking when she left the house in the morning. I wish I could get a pic and post it. It's that bad. No cares enough to tell her she looks like a darn fool.




i think that's why i need to see it. i think bun, i think of dlewis' buns that always look nice. my buns are similar with hair slicked back then in a bun in the back. i need to see how her bun looks unprofessional. i can't fathom it.


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## *~*Afrolicious*~* (Feb 4, 2010)

Marking my place.  I can't wait to see the bun pics.  Unless you have a bad relationship with your parents, they are giving you the honest truth when they're telling you your work bun looks jacked up. Make the changes and get paid.


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## Almaz (Feb 4, 2010)

How are black women partly to blame




stellagirl76 said:


> I have soooooo much to say on this subject. This is a recycled issue again and again and again. I do not think the bun is the issue. One particular thing is never the issue. You boss just aint straight talking. Your hair is what it is and there are many ways to get around this situation.
> 
> Play the game - get promoted and then do what you want.
> 
> ...


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## Hair4Care (Feb 4, 2010)

I seriously think that there is something up with that boss and all you co-wokers who agree with her. If so be the case I would suggest to get a lace front or something of that sort where you can chage the texture, colour and length with a drop of a hat.


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## Diva_Esq (Feb 4, 2010)

OP hasn't commented on this in quite a while.  I'm not sure this is what she bargained for, but it is a controversial topic.  Enjoying reading some of the opinions.


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## *~*Afrolicious*~* (Feb 4, 2010)

Diva_Esq said:


> OP hasn't commented on this in quite a while.  I'm not sure this is what she bargained for, but it is a controversial topic.  Enjoying reading some of the opinions.




Maybe she doesnt have access to LHCF at work?


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## Eritreladiee (Feb 4, 2010)

I really don't think OP has to straighten her hair in order to achieve the image her boss is talking about. If she went to work natural with her BSL hair out, 3b/c curls defined, I don't think there'd be a problem. Some places don't want you looking uptight and probably OP's boss mentioned the straight look because that's all she's ever seen of her hair when its out(?)  

This is one of those things you just have to go with. I remember one of my first jobs teaching at the conservatory- extremely uptight environment, and I was by far the youngest person there. For the 1st little while I'd wear my hair out- it was long and curly and within a couple weeks i was told very bluntly that i had to wear my hair in buns. On top of that, I was put through these sessions to make me less friendly and more rigid in my interaction with students and parents. 

So whether you like it or not, you just have to do these things to move on. I put my hair in an updo, put on my glasses went to work and acted really uptight and everything was fine.


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## CheLala13 (Feb 4, 2010)

I'm very surprised by the comments in this thread. Feels like the entire board just took 5 steps back.


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## Ithacagurl (Feb 4, 2010)

I am in the front row in this picture. I wore traditional styles initially but after becoming established, I rocked twists and natural styles

They like those styles now but I do not think the Principal Broker would have initially.

My legs are even crossed like a nonconformist lawd.


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## Amerie123 (Feb 4, 2010)

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but while i see a bit of both sides (slightly leaning more towards the sides of those that say don't loose the job over hair), I do think that OP should maybe re-talk with the boss that made the suggestion, and see if they both can come to a happy-medium. This way she's not necessarily doing something she don't want to do, and they both win. Maybe OP's boss didn't mean that she didn't like her bun. There's many variables to this story, and maybe just talking it over with your boss can provide more possibilities that you both will be happy with. Just my


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 4, 2010)

I agree with anyone who has said something to the effect of "do what you gotta do til you get that promotion"

Personally, maybe half wigs are a good option (like a poster who is going through something similar). It looks like you're wearing your hair "down" but you're not. You can baggy underneath, braid up, whatever you want to do.

It's not fair and has nothing to do with your job or performance, but unfortunately sometimes we have play the game (or appear to play along) to get what we ultimately want out of the deal.

I will also say that if your bun is relatively small, I would suggest buying a fake bun to make it look more full. And you can baggy under the fake bun which will help.

Also, may I suggest making sure make-up, eyewear (if you wear it), and jewelry is on point.

I will also say that while your boss may be a bit insensitive, maybe she is trying to be your mentor. And mentors sometimes have to tell us things that we don't like or want to hear, but will ultimately get us where we want to get in our career. *I think the decision you need to consider is whether or not you will let something like how you wear your hair stop you from getting a well-deserved promotion.* I have a mentor who tells me who to meet, who to stay away from, who to go to lunch with, what to wear, etc. Sometimes I get upset, but I know it's for my good. And because I humbled myself and listened, I am constantly being appointed to committees and groups that allow me to catch the attention of the executive administration at my university. 

Besides, that's why there are weekends...for me to wear my hair and clothes as wild and crazy as I want.

What we sometimes forget is that we (meaning LHCFers) understand what we're doing, but others may not. We don't have to explain ourselves, but there are ways to meet them toward the middle without compromising our hair goals and ideals.

I hope you take my comments in the manner in which they are intended...just to offer you a slightly different way of thinking of this situation. You can have it all...your hair the way you want but a great job to fund your PJism (cuz I know you are either a PJ, soon-to-be or recovering PJ if you're on this board LOL).

Stay strong!


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## Lola Laughs (Feb 4, 2010)

arr1216 said:


> ....I have a mentor *who tells me who to meet, who to stay away from*, who to go to lunch with, what to wear, etc. Sometimes I get upset, but I know it's for my good. And because I humbled myself and listened, I am constantly being appointed to committees and groups that allow me to catch the attention of the executive administration at my university.
> ...


You are fortunate. I used to have one like this and it was great.  It's like Survivor and aligning yourself with the right people.  Most times that will get you further than smarts and hard work, sad but true.

Sorry to get a bit off topic there.


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## thehairmaverick (Feb 4, 2010)

Jewell said:


> WTF?  Unless your career centers around appearance, i.e. dancer, model, performer, entertainer, etc.  What the hell is wrong with a bun?  In my opinion, a bun is the epitome of a professional hair do.  I was actually TOLD TO WEAR MY HAIR IN A BUN for an interview with an ultra conservative phone co-op company years back. I did, with the black skirt suit, button earrings, pumps, and got the job.  Same for a job as a teller with a national bank.  But, while working, though I had "face time" with customers daily, I was never reprimanded about my hair!!  IDK about the super and the parents, but I would be mad as hell about it.
> 
> *I would not pass up the promo for my hair style, but I WOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHETHER I WANT TO STAY WITH THIS COMPANY.  Basically, I'd take the promo, work it out for a while, then secretly plot my transition to another company.  After not so long, they'd have my 2 wk notice.  It ain't that serious for her to possibly deny you a promo over a goddang bun!!!! *{FUMES}  And, the parents need to understand that you care more about health of your hair than what style THEY like on you.
> 
> ...



Honestly this is my advice to. Esp. if the OP has her stuff together forreal like she says she do. I know people are talking about the economy, but employers can't be to careful themselves. A good empolyee can make the difference in how business is ran. They like to think they can "easily" find someone better than you...sure. It is true that you honestly need looks and competence, but lets not pretend that everyone who is cute has the competence. I say get the promo, but watch your back and have a *plan B* because you never know. Business is real conniving. Be careful and watch out for self!


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## longnstrong (Feb 4, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> No, i don't have a "sexy" job, i'm in corporate america, basic daily wardrobe is black suits and pointy toe heels or its business casual. (however, i AM the ONLY black female in my company in the West region (CA, AZ, NV, WA, MT, ID, NM, WY, CO, UT, OR) *AND* the women in my industry tend to be attractive/fashionable/put a lot of time and work into their looks. (Our quartely meetings are like small scale fashion shows.)
> 
> I don't have a picture of my buns and I will say that i suck at making buns (i'm no DLewis.) *BUT* this pressure to wear my hair down is getting to me. *Even worse* when my parents agreed with my boss. my mom has ALWAYS hated my buns - she also thinks they're "unprofessional" on me because they "don't look good on me." then my dad compares me to the 3 or 4 black women he sees while out and about over the course of a week. he then brings up 2 acquaintances of mine who "always look good" in his opinion (1 has the thinnest most unhealthy hair that's constantly slicked back into a phony pony, the other has bleached, relaxed and hot combed her hair to the point where its broken off her head and is barely eye ball length - which is fine for them, just not my thing.) i love my parents and i know they just want me to put my best foot forward, but, i refuse to do that at the risk of damaging my hair.
> 
> ...


 
How about a french roll?  That's a hairstyle that looks professional and done, but is easy on the hair and easy to do in the morning.  Not the frozen hard type of roll, but a nice pretty natural french roll???


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## simplymyself (Feb 4, 2010)

OP, I am in a similar situation.  I need to change my natural look in for a “professional” look.  I used to work in the corporate world and I will be returning to that world part-time.  My point is, you have worked extremely hard for this job and for your promotion.  Don’t risk your job or your future over hair.  

You work in a corporate environment with people who expect you to represent them.  This is part of your job.  Don’t look at this as an insult…Turn it into a challenge and show them what you can really bring to the table.


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## JayAnn0513 (Feb 4, 2010)

You know what I want to know...how did this become a race thing. I'm willing to bet the boss would have told Becky to take that bun down months ago. 

Mistake # 79 *Wearing the wrong hairstyle*, according to the author of Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office, page 199 in the edition I have. The author quotes an article on dressing for success,*"Match your style to the vibe of your workplace, no matter what level you are at"*.


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## ~Sparklingflame~ (Feb 4, 2010)

Its a sad day in America when a hairstyle alone, a simple one at that, one that doesnt interfere with job performance, can impede a promotion.


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## luckiestdestiny (Feb 4, 2010)

This is to posts stating that we've gone backward in here, or suggesting that some posts have made choices where they have not compromised...

I wish I could make this shorter but I couldn't get out my idea without a longer post:
I agree no one should ever compromise themselves of their core values.  But saying that I believe that we live in a world of rules, and no matter what we're adhering to some of them whether we think we're these "rogue" agents or not.  It's just a matter of deciding which ones are important, and which ones we reject, and why based on what we believe.  

We are also living in a world where we decide our morals and values, but can find conflicting ones as well. We also live in a world where we have to compromise occasionally (hopefully not core values, beliefs!) and have to decide which choice is more important.  I think the point is to try to be as less hypocritical as possible, and to try to feel at peace with the decisions we make,

What of rules: You can speed through a red light, but you might get a ticket or you can roll out of bed in your pajamas, decide you like them so much, and go to a corporate job but don't be surprised if you're fired. We're all making compromises on a daily basis and as such when people say they're not willing to compromise I think to myself we all do. We're all slightly hypocritical.  We all say things like everyone should be loved for who we are, but yet we won't date the midget. Or if we do, there's some other  thing that we won't do that is hypocritical despite what we say. In an ideal world, we wouldn't.  But we'd be in heaven, not the real world.  In the real world, we have to decide the things that are important to fight for, and which things are not.  We have to come to terms with the dichotomy of our lives.

Your field determines how you dress largely.  There are exceptions but in a fashion field, you are going to look fashionable or you're not getting hired, a law firm you're going to be professional.  Even artists are not immune. I'm shy but I'm going to have to push myself out and talk.  For instance:I've just found out that I've been invited to certain big film festivals this year and I'm mortified of talking to big wigs but I will have to open my mouth despite being shy. Am I compromising my core? Not really. But I am compromising the way in  which I usually communicate.  We all have choices. I could decide they should love me the way I am, stand in a corner, when asked questions give one word answers, and turn them off. Or I could push past my shyness and just open up. But it's a choice, and I've decided to make the one that will help me secure my place in the industry.  I'm sure I can infuse my own style, but I'll have to dress in appropriate attire, or if I don't, know that I'm making a choice about that.

Or picture this:  You work at a huge law firm in NYC like one of my best friends... and you walk in the law firm in jeans and a t-shirt...how many people can get away with that?  Well you should be loved for who you are, right? It shouldn't matter! Well tough, unless you are working from home, doing independent work as a lawyer,in a unique law firm, or something similar it isn't going to happen.  Well you should be known for your brilliant mind, right? Who cares what you wear. That office needs to submit to your will.So what? Should you tell your boss off?  You love your jeans, right? Or should you find a way to adjust the environment? You knew going into this job what type of "dress" was required.  Again time to decide what you stand for, how you'd like to live, and make a decision (stay or go). I'm willing to bet even Almond Eyes (who mentioned her hairstyle fitting in) doesn't roll into work in pajamas. But why not? What if she wants to? Shouldn't she be loved for her mind?

So let's be honest, everyone does conform...it's just a matter of how much. If we were to be loved the way we are, we could just roll out of bed and into work or school. It wouldn't matter if I brushed my teeth, or styled my hair, or what type of clothes I put on. I should be able to roll in in pajamas, right? But fact is, we live in a world with rules. It's just a matter of which ones we're willing to break. And even scientific data shows that we are judged on our appearance (including dress) and it even determines how much we make over a lifetime!  
Obama knows that even if he wants to wear jeans, he should put on that suit because of the field he is in.  Imagine him addressing republicans in a baseball cap!  But why not? What about his brilliant mind? Because it's the "environment" he chose to be in. If he doesn't like it, he can choose another. But even another will still have some other type of compromise. Again it's a personal decision which compromises we can live with, and why.

I think most people realize that she SHOULD be able to do what she wants, but that in reality she will have to make a choice: listen to boss or not? How much?  Wear more fashionable buns, or not? Rave to HR or not? But really I don't believe this is a choice because she is black. I think this is a choice by a ridiculous boss with her own hypocritical rules, because she is human.


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## luckiestdestiny (Feb 4, 2010)

JayAnn0513 said:


> You know what I want to know...how did this become a race thing. I'm willing to bet the boss would have told Becky to take that bun down months ago.
> 
> Mistake # 79 *Wearing the wrong hairstyle*, according to the author of Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office, page 199 in the edition I have. The author quotes an article on dressing for success,*"Match your style to the vibe of your workplace, no matter what level you are at"*.


Thank you.

You said in one paragraph what it took me a page to say lol!


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 4, 2010)

I hate to say it but I think some of the sentiments expressed in this thread is exactly why we don't get the corner office. In order to change the game, you have to be at the table to make the rules. Otherwise you will forever have to play with the hands you are dealt (bosses telling you how to wear your hair).


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## DDTexlaxed (Feb 4, 2010)

WOW, I can't tell you what to do, but just be on guard. The fact that you are the only black woman there makes me feel as if this is racially motivated. Your hair does not have anything to do with your getting a promotion. That is just an excuse on her part.  I feel bad that your mother is not supportive of your hair.  Maybe you can try a different PS like a french braid. That is professional and it protects your hair. ITA that you should talk to your boss again. I hope things work out for you.


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## almond eyes (Feb 4, 2010)

When it comes to the black woman's hair there will never be agreement on what is sloppy, dowdy or unkempt. I believe that there are rules in a work place, but unless someone is dressed provacatively or is dirty; rules mostly apply to getting work done and regulations against sexual harassment and discrimination. Black women that get ahead in professions do so because of their brains and not because of their hair and I will state that again. 

Many years ago when I worked at a non-profit I wore my hair natural to the office (in a pulled back bun) and one day decided to straighten and everyone was telling to please please continue with my hairstyle because it looked much better than my natural bun. Even my own dad was begging to give me money to maintain the pressed look. Yes, I had to admit that my hair was so thick and that the natural bun was not the most flattering but it wasn't sloppy and I wasn't trying to be JET girl of the week. And I was smart as a whip. At the end of the day, the hoopla died down over my hair and I continued to wear it in exactly the way I felt (re: I was not going to spend 5 hours no kidding on press and curl for it to revert after one shower). And to my surprise, my work continued to thrive and I even got a coveted assignment that was meant for someone else and I ended up leaving that post for law school. When people know you are on point with your brains, they don't have time to focus on your appearance (again unless you are dirty, overly sexed up or wear terribly wrinkled clothing). 

Now, with that being said, I am entitled to my opinion and believe that the boss is trying to sexualise this woman by asking her to wear her hair down for whatever reason (to attract more clients, to have a prettier female work force, etc). As for the parents, parents of that generation believe that hair that is not curled is sloppy. A hairstyle to them does not constitute buns or natural hair. 

On another side note, if the OP were a muslim woman would we all be chiming for her to lose the hijab just for a job? Just asking..........

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## jada1111 (Feb 4, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> When it comes to the black woman's hair there will never be agreement on what is sloppy, dowdy or unkempt. I believe that there are rules in a work place, but unless someone is dressed provacatively or is dirty; rules mostly apply to getting work done and regulations against sexual harassment and discrimination. Black women that get ahead in professions do so because of their brains and not because of their hair and I will state that again.
> 
> *]Many years ago when I worked at a non-profit I wore my hair natural to the office (in a pulled back bun) and one day decided to straighten and everyone was telling to please please continue with my hairstyle because it looked much better than my natural bun. Even my own dad was begging to give me money to maintain the pressed look. Yes, I had to admit that my hair was so thick and that the natural bun was not the most flattering but it wasn't sloppy and I wasn't trying to be JET girl of the week. And I was smart as a whip. At the end of the day, the hoopla died down over my hair and I continued to wear it in exactly the way I felt (re: I was not going to spend 5 hours no kidding on press and curl for it to revert after one shower). And to my surprise, my work continued to thrive and I even got a coveted assignment that was meant for someone else and I ended up leaving that post for law school. When people know you are on point with your brains, they don't have time to focus on your appearance (again unless you are dirty, overly sexed up or wear terribly wrinkled clothing)*.



Again, total agreement here.  The above reiterates my stand on NEVER wearing my hair straight at work or a public gathering where my co-workers will be.  



> Now, with that being said, *I am entitled to my opinion and believe that the boss is trying to sexualise this woman by asking her to wear her hair down for whatever reason (to attract more clients, to have a prettier female work force, etc)*.



Me too.  



> On another side note, if the OP were a muslim woman would we all be chiming for her to lose the hijab just for a job? Just asking..........
> 
> Best,
> Almond Eyes



If she wants to "play the game" she will, then again, if she was hired wearing it, I doubt they would ask her.


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## almond eyes (Feb 4, 2010)

Even in law school (when I wore short twists that looked like locs), the black women in my year were always fascinated that I always ended up with the internships, co-chairing a debate group and on the cover of our law school's public interest magazine. I think when you are smart as a whip and carry yourself with confidence and you have a certain amount of style, I am telling you no one cares about your hair and if they do something is wrong (unless your hair smells funky of course). 

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## luckiestdestiny (Feb 4, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> When it comes to the black woman's hair there will never be agreement on what is sloppy, dowdy or unkempt. I believe that there are rules in a work place, but unless someone is dressed provacatively or is dirty; rules mostly apply to getting work done and regulations against sexual harassment and discrimination. Black women that get ahead in professions do so because of their brains and not because of their hair and I will state that again.
> 
> Many years ago when I worked at a non-profit I wore my hair natural to the office (in a pulled back bun) and one day decided to straighten and everyone was telling to please please continue with my hairstyle because it looked much better than my natural bun. Even my own dad was begging to give me money to maintain the pressed look. Yes, I had to admit that my hair was so thick and that the natural bun was not the most flattering but it wasn't sloppy *who determines that? What if you think it's not sloppy but someone else does...again it's just a choice whether you want to continue what you're doing or not.*and I wasn't trying to be JET girl of the week. And I was smart as a whip. At the end of the day, the hoopla died down over my hair and I continued to wear it in exactly the way I felt (re: I was not going to spend 5 hours no kidding on press and curl for it to revert after one shower). And to my surprise, my work continued to thrive and I even got a coveted assignment*That's cool, but your boss didn't have a talk with you. I'm always complemented when I wear my hair down and told I should more. I don't listen either. Oh well. In OP's case, her boss pulled her to the side and asked her to do something with her hair. She can make a choice or not, and there may be consequences for them. She'll have to decide what she can live with.  In your case you think wearing your hair natural is important, and dressing in a non provocative professional manner.  What if someone else thought dressing sexy and wearing jeans were important?  What if they worked with you, what would you think?  Perhaps your view about intelligence would be prejudiced because of the way they dress. Maybe they would continue but it would change how they were promoted (or maybe you'd overlook it). It would be a choice that they make. But still no matter what we all make them.*that was meant for someone else and I ended up leaving that post for law school. When people know you are on point with your brains, they don't have time to focus on your appearance (again unless you are dirty, overly sexed up or wear terribly wrinkled clothing).
> *Still making a choice. What if you dress sexy but are brilliant...should it matter?  You'd have to find an environment where it was okay, or stand up and take the consequences (or not depending on if your boss overlooked it). In a way you're thinking you're in an environment where you're accepted, while rejecting someone else who does not look in the manner you deem appropriate. THat's what I meant by dichotomy. No matter what, it's up to the environment whether we will fit in or not, or we will have to choose to make another way into it (through external independant means). Even then, there will be other types of compromises.*
> ...


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## Jewell (Feb 4, 2010)

JayAnn0513 said:


> You know what I want to know...how did this become a race thing. I'm willing to bet the boss would have told Becky to take that bun down months ago.
> 
> Mistake # 79 *Wearing the wrong hairstyle*, according to the author of Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office, page 199 in the edition I have. The author quotes an article on dressing for success,*"Match your style to the vibe of your workplace, no matter what level you are at"*.



yeah, I hate to think that this whole thing over her hair might be racially motivated deep down, but I put it out there for her to consider.  Who knows, there may have been other things and other inuendo that the boss put out related to race.   IDK.  I like the fact that you put this rule from "Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office."  OT: I read, "Nice Girls Don't Get Rich," and I really liked it.  NG Don't Get the Corner Office is on my list to read.


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## almond eyes (Feb 4, 2010)

I appreciate all of the debates and I enjoy reading all of the different sides to this debate. Even if we don't agree, it's important to see things from all angles without getting upset. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## RockCreak (Feb 4, 2010)

Sorry OP but that's corp America.  Unfortunately we have to play their game.  Until society and the rules change, we are bound by their rules.  I too, am in your same position.  There is another black woman who's already ahead of me.  She pulled me to the side and gave me the low down as to how and what she had to do to "fit in." Once she got there, she reverted back to her old self.  Not that she was raggedy or anything, but as far as her "culture" hairystyles and all, she went back to how she was.  It took some time, but it's being accepted more and more.

Unfortunately, one of the things we have to do!


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## almond eyes (Feb 4, 2010)

No that's not corporate America that is what black women are always telling themselves along with other myths. I know women who are natural in corporate America.

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 4, 2010)

^ RockCreak never said anything about being natural or relaxed

Also, you can't make blanket statements about what is and isn't appropriate in corporate america. It varies from company to company. Clearly her firm is more professional chic, some are more traditional and conservative, there are many firms here in New York where you have to have a very modern fashionable professional look *especially* if you work for one of the major magazines.

Its not like her boss insulted her character, her work ethic or the quality of her work (you know, things that actually matter) she simply requested she wear her hair in a different style. She never called her ugly or told her she's required to relax her hair or anything ridiculous, all she did was suggest she wear her hair down more to make it easier for her to succeed.

You can't be up in arms over the tiniest things, especially something as frivolous as hair.


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## 4mia (Feb 4, 2010)

i may be wrong but i thought the whole corporate look was to pin your hair up(black or white) then let your hair down or ponytail when your at home. Isnt that where the the saying "let your hair down" come from?

i know most women i see on tv, doctors, lawyers, corporate america, style their hair in buns,chigons,french twists.
or so i thought


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## Truth (Feb 4, 2010)

I say put ya poker face on.. Play the game until you get where you need to be, once you do so...continue to do you...switch it up a little.. wear it down, wear flexi sets, a bun yes accessorized, or invest in a beautiful half or sew in.. she can't complain if your hair is doing something different, just keep it neat..what's the most she can say?


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## antisocial (Feb 4, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> No that's not corporate America that is what black women are always telling themselves along with other myths. I know women who are natural in corporate America.
> 
> Best,
> Almond Eyes


 


Just because you or the people in your circle haven't experienced something does not make it a myth.


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## ~Sparklingflame~ (Feb 4, 2010)

4mia said:


> i may be wrong but i thought the whole corporate look was to pin your hair up(black or white) then let your hair down or ponytail when your at home. Isnt that where the the saying "let your hair down" come from?
> 
> i know most women i see on tv, doctors, lawyers, corporate america, style their hair in buns,chigons,french twists.
> or so i thought


Thats what I thought.

Most times you see a corporate (white) woman on TV with her reading glasses, dark colored business suit, and her hair pulled back in a neat bun. Whats wrong with that? Nothing.

I havent read anything but the OP and a few posts up, but is this racially motivated?


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## almond eyes (Feb 4, 2010)

Just because it's experienced by one person or a few doesn't make it the norm either. I also see that when people express a different opinion, it's not okay on this forum people start trying to indirectly call them frivolous or taking things out of context. And I will always express my opinion even if it goes against the norm because that is how people grow, you can't always hear what you want to hear. We don't have to all see things through one lens. That's what debates are about, people argue different sides and we are free to take what we want and don't want from the debate. If people don't like my posts, then don't read them.........but that doesn't make me frivolous.  

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## dicapr (Feb 4, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> The only thing that I gathered from this thread was that as a black woman in America you have to fit into the standard to get ahead and appearances are everything. And I do understand that it is important to look neat at one's job, however, I think many black women can get extremely obsessed with fitting in and therefore believe that the right hairstyle, pricey clothes and jewelry are the keys to happiness and will guarantee the right opportunities. And I don't think so. Brains are extremely important unless one is working in the beauty industry. I am not at all saying that we as black women need to be mouthy and not listen to concerns of supervisors, but what I am saying is that we also need to understand that we end up with severe complexes about what it takes to get ahead and in the end sometimes even the right hairstyles and clothes do not get the promotions or the guy.
> 
> I am African and most of my cousins and many of my African friends in the States are extremely well educated and the majority of them wear natural hair (my sister is bald and is a conference manager at a white firm) and they have been extremely successful in their professions including me and I do analyst international work. I have a good friend who used to work at a white law firm and was the only black woman there and she had the fly relaxer and she was constantly beating herself up about fitting in and using paychecks to buy the imitation LV bags and suits. And yes, she had the successful job but she wasn't that happy. Because she needed to lose a few pounds and had to wear buns most of the time, she would get paranoid about how others were perceiving her hair. And I was like why are you stressing you are one of the best lawyers. I think it's very interesting about how people allow others to treat them, by brains or by the looks.
> 
> ...


 

I think your experience is different than the OP because you are African.  They probably regard your natural hair as part of your "culture".  For an AA woman they would have an expectation of her adhering to the "American" culture.  The fact that the OP states that her bun is not the best leads me to believe that it is constructive criticism.  The OP has not worn her curly hair to work.  She has only showcased two styles, straight and the bun.  The boss only had one other look to use as being appropriate.  She was never told she had to straighten her hair.  She was just told to loose the bun.  

I am getting my MBA and we have been told that the bun is no longer the gold standard professional hairstyle for women. Actually, they suggest that we don't wear one.  We are told that we should wear our hair down but not  too big.  This is now the prefered look in corprate America.


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## Vintageglam (Feb 4, 2010)

Can't believe this thread is still going buy hey I did predict it would be HAWT....

Anyway we can go round and round in circles all day looooooong.

My suggestion, BMP, Rasta and all the other ladies who have chimed in.  Can we please do a spin-off thread which hopefully we can convince the powers that be to turn into a sticky.

Ladies from the board can then chime in with "work friendly" hair styles and inspirations for every different type of work environ repped on the board.

Everyone can chime in and hopefully we can finally kill this thread and provide what Op what she was looking for - solutions. 

I have a feeling that this will continue to be a re-occurring theme esp as people feel under increasing pressure to keep their jobs in this economy so we might as well address the issue practically...


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## almond eyes (Feb 4, 2010)

Maybe, I live on a different planet, please forgive me because most of my AA friends and acquaintances wear natural hair too in professional jobs and they look super chic. My BFF is the only person that I know these days that I am close too (a coincidence) that wears a relaxer (and I know we are not talking about natural hair vs. relaxers we are talking about buns vs wearing hair down) and talks to me about her challenges in her law firm setting (professional hairstyles and the need to wear that bouncing and behaving hair) and I listen to her and never make her feel bad for expressing these frustrations but I also let her know that she is a smart black woman who is more than just how she wears her hair and that a few bad hair days isn't going to ruin her career. And I have experienced some constructive criticism about my hair but it never really bothers me for some reason. 

It could be a generational thing as I am in my 30's and I am still of the mind set that buns are professional but I see that times have changed. 

Maybe I attract the experiences that I want to attract and therefore have not experienced the hair issue much. 

Again, I will reiterate I am for black female empowerment and not endorsing anyone losing a job or getting mouthy with their bosses. And it is an excellent idea for us to brainstorm on professional chic hairstyles for an office. 


Best,
Almond Eyes


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## wavezncurlz (Feb 4, 2010)

OP, I can't wait to hear how you handled this. I am also 3b/c and I have some hairstyles (both bun/updos and twistouts) that may be helpful. I've often been the only AA in a setting and have never had anyone comment on my buns/updos. Accessories are helpful in keeping the professional look without being too boring. Check out my photobucket albums and feel free to contact me if you need any help with styling.


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## Rastafarai (Feb 4, 2010)

dicapr said:


> I think your experience is different than the OP because you are African. They probably regard your natural hair as part of your "culture".For an AA woman they would have an expectation of her adhering to the "American" culture


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## Rastafarai (Feb 4, 2010)

stellagirl76 said:


> My suggestion, BMP, Rasta and all the other ladies who have chimed in. Can we please do a spin-off thread which hopefully we can convince the powers that be to turn into a sticky.
> 
> Ladies from the board can then chime in with "work friendly" hair styles and inspirations for every different type of work environ repped on the board.
> 
> ...


 
On which sub-forum Stella? I think this is a great idea!


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## dicapr (Feb 4, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> Maybe, I live on a different planet, please forgive me because most of my AA friends and acquaintances wear natural hair too in professional jobs and they look super chic. My BFF is the only person that I know these days that I am close too (a coincidence) that wears a relaxer and talks to me about her challenges in her law firm setting and I listen to her and never make her feel bad for expressing these frustrations but I also let her know that she is a smart black woman who is more than just how she wears her hair and that a few bad hair days isn't going to ruin her career.
> 
> It could be a generational thing as I am in my 30's and I am still of the mind set that buns are professional but I see that times have changed.
> 
> ...


 
I was responding to the fact that you stated in your first post that you and your friends were African. Sometimes Africans will get a cultural benefit of the doubt where AA are just considered as being contrary.  I've seen it.  Again, our views often are formed with the reality we live in.  I have seen individuals given the beneifit of the doubt because it was their culture however expect AA to live within what they consider the norm for Americans. 
 I have just returned to school.  And yes, I was surprised to see the change in what was considered "corporate" hair.  Since the discussion is about if the boss overstepped in asking the OP to change her hair I thought it was important to note that the request is in line with the new corporate hair standards.


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## dicapr (Feb 4, 2010)

Rastafarai said:


>


 

We all have different experiences and . . . nevermind.  I forgot how this board is.  Good night.


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## Rastafarai (Feb 4, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> Maybe, I live on a different planet, please forgive me because most of my AA friends and acquaintances wear natural hair too in professional jobs and they look super chic. My BFF is the only person that I know these days that I am close too (a coincidence) that wears a relaxer (and I know we are not talking about natural hair vs. relaxers we are talking about buns vs wearing hair down) and talks to me about her challenges in her law firm setting (professional hairstyles and the need to wear that bouncing and behaving hair) and I listen to her and never make her feel bad for expressing these frustrations but I also let her know that she is a smart black woman who is more than just how she wears her hair and that a few bad hair days isn't going to ruin her career. And I have experienced some constructive criticism from about my hair but it never really bothers me for some reason.
> 
> It could be a generational thing as I am in my 30's and I am still of the mind set that buns are professional but I see that times have changed.
> 
> ...


 

You're not living on a different planet, Almond Eyes.

We may be few but there are many black females at my firm (myself included) rocking natural hair, some are even in dreads. Natural hair is defnitely becoming more widely accepted.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 4, 2010)

for those of you who asked, here is a pic of my bun (at the end of the day)


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## ~Sparklingflame~ (Feb 4, 2010)

It just looks a little frizzy around the edges but a little gel can take care of that. Still looks fine to me.


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## Esq.2B (Feb 4, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> for those of you who asked, here is a pic of my bun (at the end of the day)


 

Okay, for starters, you have beautiful hair. 

I'd like to say though, I agree with your boss on this one.  It's not that it looks awful.  But it certainly doesn't say High Level Corporate America either.  To me, it looks decent, but like you plan to run to the beauty salon after work to get your hair done and you needed to get by for the day. 

As I suspected, it's not that all buns are unprofessional, this bun though might be a bit unprofessional for your office.  Maybe you could try a neater, more pulled together bun. Maybe a bun that's slicked to your head w/ a donut styled bun in the back?  If she doesn't approve, then you know what you have to do.  Get that promotion girl .


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## Rastafarai (Feb 4, 2010)

Esq.2B said:


> Okay, for starters, you have beautiful hair.
> 
> I'd like to say though, I agree with your boss on this one. It's not that it looks awful. But it certainly doesn't say High Level Corporate America either. To me, it looks decent, but like you plan to run to the beauty salon after work to get your hair done and you needed to get by for the day.
> 
> As I suspected, it's not that all buns are unprofessional, this bun though might be a bit unprofessional for your office. Maybe you could try a neater, more pulled together bun. Maybe a bun that's slicked to your head w/ a donut styled bun in the back? If she doesn't approve, then you know what you have to do. Get that promotion girl .


 

Agreed.

OP you have beautiful texture!! You just need a curling custard or gel to make it look more polished and less tangled/sloppy.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 4, 2010)

naijamerican said:


> OP, I'm really sorry that this has happened to you, but I think you've been offered some wonderful advice in this thread and I hope it helps you.  I don't think that your boss was acting out of malintent. She seems to care about your career and appears to have a vested interest in your success. Is it ignorant that a bun can still hold up one's promotion? Yes, it is, but not when you consider what another poster stated, which is that if the cultural milieu of your company is anti-bun, then you're going to have to be consistent with what they deem be acceptable or, unfortunately, find a new job.
> 
> My thing is, I do agree that you should play the game. I also agree with the advice that perhaps it's not the bun itself, but that the bun is a proxy or encapsulates other aspects of your appearance that might be hindering your progress. Yeah, maybe you do need to get new styles and to wear your hair down more often. From that standpoint, by all means, do what you need to do.
> *But the thing that really bothers me is, after you wear your hair down, then what? What else are you, or anyone else, going to be asked to change to conform to a company's ideals? Are they going to ask you to lose weight? Gain weight? See a dermatologist because your skin looks jacked up? Wear less makeup? When does the intrusion end? It's not just the issue of navigating the corporate world as a woman of color; it's navigating it as a woman, period, in a society that cares more about how we look than what we do.*
> Sorry for the vent; this situation is so bothersome to me. And I feel that it happens more to "us" than to other people.



Thanks Naijamerican! I'm lucky to finally have a boss who is supportive of me. And while her comment was ignorant (ignorant because she, like many others, don't seem to understand the difficulty of straightening curly hair), she did say it out of kindness. She's a straight shooter verbally and sometimes doesn't think before she speaks - but hey, i'm sure i've been guilty of that before.



BlackMasterPiece said:


> "]OP it would be tremendously helpful if you posted a pic of your typical bun and maybe make it a head to toe shot of an outfit you'd typically wear.
> I think if not only she but your family tell you the bun isn't flattering then maybe they're right. Just because a style is cute on the next lady doesn't mean it'll compliment your features.
> 
> To me switching up a style to ascend in a company is no biggie, just research healthy ways to achieve it.
> ...



Thanks for your input BlackMasterpiece. Its interesting because my company doesn't necessarily have a corporate fashion culture, but I would say that most of the women could be considered chic professional. I should note, I'm not in an office all day, I'm out working with clients, my boss very rarely sees me. I think working in California has a lot to do with it also. As for my family, well, my Mom is more of the old skool. She puts a curling iron in her hair 3-5 days/wk and while her hair is pretty, her ends are split and fried and she doesn't retain length. We have very different opinions on how to style and hair to keep it healthy. BUT, my mother wants me to look my very best daily too. (as do i.) As for posting an outfit, I've been at my job for 5 years and I'm very comfortable and confident in my professional appearance - which is why this bun thing threw me for a loop. 



Rastafarai said:


> Here's another style suggestion from one of our own members:
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/1QTPie/2009/100-1110.html



Umm....that's gorgeous!! - but I reeeeally don't think I can do that. That's a piece of art!


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 4, 2010)

I agree COMPLETELY with *Esq.2b* 

Try to get much more creative with the bun itself as well so it looks more intentional and full take a look at buns from posters like Dlewis.

As for wearing it down, you can get a very smooth roller-set with your texture without excessive heat, you can still reach your goals while fulfilling the firms professional expectations.Since you already have the fashion down all you need to do is find a happy balance with the hair and you're set

Glad I could help hun


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## Rastafarai (Feb 4, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> Umm....that's gorgeous!! - but I reeeeally don't think I can do that. That's a piece of art!


 
It doesn't hurt to contact 1Qtpie about this style. I think she even provides a tutorial! 


So have you decided on what you'll be doing with your hair for tonight?


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 4, 2010)

Esq.2B said:


> Okay, for starters, you have beautiful hair.
> 
> I'd like to say though, I agree with your boss on this one.  It's not that it looks awful.  But it certainly doesn't say High Level Corporate America either.  To me, it looks decent, but like you plan to run to the beauty salon after work to get your hair done and you needed to get by for the day.
> 
> As I suspected, it's not that all buns are unprofessional, this bun though might be a bit unprofessional for your office.  Maybe you could try a neater, more pulled together bun. Maybe a bun that's slicked to your head w/ a donut styled bun in the back?  If she doesn't approve, then you know what you have to do.  Get that promotion girl .



well, apparently i need bun school.     it was very slicked down at the hairline, but for some reason the picture really zooms in on the little frizzies that stick up - those baby hairs or whatever the little flyaways are called. i have no idea how to tame those - so any suggestions would be great. 

however, i would like to add that on the other girls who work for my company you see all types of hair styles. neat, not-neat, pulled back, worn down - everything! so while i understand that i need to play the game, there is a bit of wondering if this is a special rule for the curly haired black girl? 

oh - thanks for the hair compliment, it's appreciated! especially when i'm going thru so much drama.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 4, 2010)

BlackMasterPiece said:


> I agree COMPLETELY with *Esq.2b*
> 
> Try to get much more creative with the bun itself as well so it looks more intentional and full take a look at buns from posters like Dlewis.
> 
> ...



THAT is what i want to learn how to do. So i guess i'll finally buy that Pibbs and dig into Pokohontas' fotki rollersetting album! i have never rollerset my hair before and when i had it done at a salon a few months ago - it was so poufy, i looked like betty ford - or like those old white women with the 60s rollerset hair. it wasn't sleek or straight at all. it wasn't my normal salon, obviously the stylist had NO idea how to rollerset!


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 4, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> well, apparently i need bun school.     it was very slicked down at the hairline, but for some reason the picture really zooms in on the little frizzies that stick up - those baby hairs or whatever the little flyaways are called. i have no idea how to tame those - so any suggestions would be great.
> 
> however, i would like to add that on the other girls who work for my company you see all types of hair styles. neat, not-neat, pulled back, worn down - everything! so while i understand that i need to play the game, there is a bit of wondering if this is a special rule for the curly haired black girl?
> 
> oh - thanks for the hair compliment, it's appreciated! especially when i'm going thru so much drama.


Honestly I've seen white girls get told about their appearance as well. 

At the end of the day, your performance will be what really matters always keep that in mind.

As for how to tame the flyaways at your edges I would recommend a brush some gel and oil and a scarf for at least 20 minutes


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## Esq.2B (Feb 4, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> well, apparently i need bun school.  it was very slicked down at the hairline, but for some reason the picture really zooms in on the little frizzies that stick up - those baby hairs or whatever the little flyaways are called. i have no idea how to tame those - so any suggestions would be great.
> 
> however, i would like to add that *on the other girls who work for my company you see all types of hair styles. neat, not-neat, pulled back, worn down - everything! so while i understand that i need to play the game, there is a bit of wondering if this is a special rule for the curly haired black girl?*
> 
> oh - thanks for the hair compliment, it's appreciated! especially when i'm going thru so much drama.


 

And that's just fine.  We won't worry about those "other" girls and their messy hair. They won't get the promotion.  You will.


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## danysedai (Feb 4, 2010)

OP, your hair is beautiful. Hope others can chime in with advise on how to tame the frizzies. After all this, I was expecting a halo of hair sticking out, you know, like when you are little and you are playing outside and your hair is all sticking out in the front?
The style is a little plain,maybe you can experiment with a side part, and a pretty hair comb or other accesory on the bun?nothing over the top.
I also keep some hair moisturizer and a bit of gel in my drawer at work, and I carry a small boar brush in my bag so I can touch up after lunch for example or if i am called to a meeting.


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 4, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> THAT is what i want to learn how to do. So i guess i'll finally buy that Pibbs and dig into Pokohontas' fotki rollersetting album! i have never rollerset my hair before and when i had it done at a salon a few months ago - it was so poufy, i looked like betty ford - or like those old white women with the 60s rollerset hair. it wasn't sleek or straight at all. it wasn't my normal salon, obviously the stylist had NO idea how to rollerset!


You can also try curl formers and flexi-rod sets and pin them back, that would be very sleek and pretty, they're heat free too


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## naturalmanenyc (Feb 4, 2010)

Given that your boss is a straight shooter and you think she commented out of genuine concern, I would work on the bunning skills.

Some buns I have done:
http://public.fotki.com/RegsWife/a-new-protective-updo/

http://public.fotki.com/RegsWife/curly-primer-method/

To make your bun more sleek, you need some gel (I use EcoStyler olive oil), a brush and a scarf for 10 - 15 minutes before you leave for work (or while you drive to work).  I have driven to work many times with my scarf on my head to tame the fly aways.  I have an hour drive to the office and take off my scarf in the parking lot.

You can also try the SouthernTease bun with your curly hair and a chopstick to dress it up.  A video of how I do my ST bun (with blown out hair) is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvHH2z4UCPQ

If you want to wear loose hair, maybe try a half wig that matches your texture.  It's the best of both worlds, protected hair and an "out" style.
My half wigs albums are here:  
http://public.fotki.com/RegsWife/using-a-half-wig/

Full wigs are of course an option too.
My full wigs albums are here:
http://public.fotki.com/RegsWife/experimenting-with-/




wyldcurlz said:


> for those of you who asked, here is a pic of my bun (at the end of the day)


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## Whimsy (Feb 4, 2010)

I haven't read all of the responses, but just curious....can you sue over this?  Cuz to me it sounds like grounds for a financial come up for you!!!   but...what do i know...


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## likewtr4chklit (Feb 4, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> for those of you who asked, here is a pic of my bun (at the end of the day)



This bun can fixed no problem. Some clear gel and some cute hair accessories

example:


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## pookaloo83 (Feb 4, 2010)

likewtr4chklit said:


> This bun can fixed no problem. Some clear gel and some cute hair accessories
> 
> example:





This is cute.


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## Eritreladiee (Feb 4, 2010)

^^^^ those are real pretty


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## pearlygurl (Feb 4, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> well, apparently i need bun school.  it was very slicked down at the hairline, but for some reason the picture really zooms in on the little frizzies that stick up - those baby hairs or whatever the little flyaways are called. i have no idea how to tame those - so any suggestions would be great.
> 
> however, i would like to add that on the other girls who work for my company you see all types of hair styles. neat, not-neat, pulled back, worn down - everything! *so while i understand that i need to play the game, there is a bit of wondering if this is a special rule for the curly haired black girl? *
> 
> oh - thanks for the hair compliment, it's appreciated! especially when i'm going thru so much drama.


 
Or maybe your boss likes you and is just giving you some inside info that may help you get that promotion.  Anyway your hair is gorgeous...keep practicing on your buns and look into styles like pincurling where you can wear your hair down and stay away from heat.  HTH


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## chelleypie810 (Feb 4, 2010)

likewtr4chklit said:


> This bun can fixed no problem. Some clear gel and some cute hair accessories
> 
> example:



SO PRETTY! Where the he** are those accessories from. i need to know i need to know! FEEEENNNIIINNNGGG!


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## Dak (Feb 4, 2010)

I don't think the issue is the style of the bun as much as it is texture.  Those buns of 1A hair just will not look the same with natural hair.  

OP, if you want to still wear natural hair, have you tried doing two strand twists?  I wore that style for years.  In your picture of your bun, it looks like you've brushed your hair?  If you use some sort of styling cream and a scarf, you'd get some nice waves happening, then you could wear the back out in a pony tail with all it's curly goodness.


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## Rocky91 (Feb 5, 2010)

I agree with all the gel/scarf suggestions.
i'm not too sure about all the accessories, though-the scarves/flowers, etc. are more casual/girly *IMO*....i would focus more on nice earrings.
for example, i think this bun only looks decent/professional because 
1) My eyebrows are done (not my fave threading job cause i feel she didn't get them perfectly even, but you get the point)
2) it's very slick
3) i'm wearing nice (IMO) earrings
4) it looks like a very neat donut from the back, sorry that i can't provide a pic
*ignore how huge my head looks in the pic, please, and the fact that i look _tired_*





if my hair gets this sleek as a 4a/b, you'll have no problems.
why not try this out tomorrow and see what she says?


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## *~*Afrolicious*~* (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> for those of you who asked, here is a pic of my bun (at the end of the day)



Sorry if this is blunt.

The bun definitely looks unprofessional and messy for the type of office that you work in. It just looks like you rolled out of bed and didn't really brush it.  I know this was end of the day, but in the corporate world there's no excuse for your hair to look like that at the end of the day.  I think your boss was looking out for your best interested by letting you know what's up.  You may need to take a day or a night after work and play with different hairstyles in order to figure out how to try something different.  I took me some time before I mastered different styles, but practice makes perfect! I wish you the best.

**My hair is in the 3cish range and what helps laying my hair down is braiding my hair into tight plaits after I wash and letting it air dry.  This week after I let my hair air dry and unraveled the plaits, I combed my hair with a wide tooth comb and then I put a healthy glop of conditioner on my hair and brushed, made a bun and put a scarf over my head. I havent brushed my hair since this morning, so I hope it works   ***


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## likewtr4chklit (Feb 5, 2010)

chelleypie810 said:


> SO PRETTY! Where the he** are those accessories from. i need to know i need to know! FEEEENNNIIINNNGGG!



Dang now I feel bad b/c I did an image search, but it's not a site that you can actually buy them from. I'm going to go look some more.


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## Eritreladiee (Feb 5, 2010)

OP-  not everyone can pull off a bun, no matter how well put together, slicked down or intricate. You gotta be honest with yourself, are buns a flattering look for you?


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## I Am So Blessed (Feb 5, 2010)

danggggggggg, that shyt is messed up.....

i say DO YOU!!!!!  its your hair, not her's. im getting upset now, coz i wear buns all the time. she has no right to say that. wow, the nerve of her.


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## HeChangedMyName (Feb 5, 2010)

Wow.  Isn't that breaking the law?  You're gonna make me dig up my employment law books and get to researching this case. . .I mean situation.

Is there anything in your employment contract about hairstyles?  Practice those buns if there is and learn to make perfect buns.  get on youtube.

If it is not in there, then keep it neat and. . .I don't know what i'd do.  I'd cry too.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 5, 2010)

Eritreladiee said:


> OP-  not everyone can pull off a bun, no matter how well put together, slicked down or intricate. You gotta be honest with yourself, are buns a flattering look for you?



the answer to this question probably is 'not at all.' i've had a few cute side ones and such and they're okay, but the standard issue bun, i don't know that i could get it to look good on me. need another low maintenance look.


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## Bene (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> the answer to this question probably is 'not at all.' i've had a few cute side ones and such and they're okay, but the standard issue bun, i don't know that i could get it to look good on me. need another low maintenance look.




I really do think you could pull it off, because the bun part is alright, it's just the crown area that needs a little help. You just need to work on smoothing it, that's all. I think naturalmanenyc has given you the best advice. I've walked around with my hair in a similar state to the picture you've posted and I've had to admit that at times it's not the most sophisticated look. Any styling product and scarf could help you out immensely.


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## werenumber2 (Feb 5, 2010)

I know no two heads of hair are exactly alike, but we seem to have a similar texture. As far as styling goes I think all you need is gel. That's all. I don't need a scarf nor a brush...just damp hair, wet hands, and gel. At the end of the day, the front of my hair looks as slick and wavy as it did when I walked into work that morning.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 5, 2010)

Bene said:


> I really do think you could pull it off, because the bun part is alright, it's just the crown area that needs a little help. You just need to work on smoothing it, that's all. I think naturalmanenyc has given you the best advice. I've walked around with my hair in a similar state to the picture you've posted and I've had to admit that at times it's not the most sophisticated look. Any styling product and scarf could help you out immensely.



Thanks! i'll look for her advice. i want my hair like your siggy pic!! that's gorgeous!!!! i've just got to work on a few things because all i know how to do is flat-iron my hair. and, as i've mentioned here, i don't want to do that allll the time. i want to look good and retain length.


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## CocoBunny (Feb 5, 2010)

I was hoping it was a polished professional bun so I could get all worked up  on your behalf.  The bun is a tad messy. Try smoothing it down a bit and not making the bun part so tight looking.

Try  a neat  polished bun. No need to straighten I have 4Z hair and with the right leave-in and a scarf overnight, I have people complimenting me.  I love half wigs too.

I've had to have hair and wardrobe discussions with many employees, in a rainbow of races, both male and female and undecided.

Some made changes and flourished others didn't and flourished.  Some choose hair styles over employment. Some chose hair color over promotions (you and your neon blue Mohawk enjoy the mail room and find comfort in the fact that you didn't conform).

Life isn't fair and in a perfect world we wouldn't be having this discussion.

YMMV


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## luckiestdestiny (Feb 5, 2010)

CocoBunny said:


> I was hoping it was a polished professional bun so I could get all worked up  on your behalf.  The bun is a tad messy. Try smoothing it down a bit and not making the bun part so tight looking.
> 
> Try  a neat  polished bun. No need to straighten I have 4Z hair and with the right leave-in and a scarf overnight, I have people complimenting me.  I love half wigs too.
> 
> ...



 Double, Triple, quadruple thanks.  Neon blue mowhawk is an excellent example!  Wish we were in heaven...sigh


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## Barbara (Feb 5, 2010)

I didn't read the whole thread yet, because it's too long to read in one setting, but anyway . . . just wear your hair down as soon as you arrive at the office, and put it up as soon as you leave at the end of the day.  My former coworker always put her hair up at 5:00 p.m. in the ladies room before she left the building, because she took public transportation.

At least it will be protected from the air most of the time, but not the eight hours you're at the office.  Wear a silk scarf on your shoulders to keep your ends from breaking if you're shoulder length.  You will still reach your hair goal.  

I gradually stopped wearing my hair down every day and rolling it every night.  Once I stopped rolling it, my boss and other coworkers would remind me that it was growing.  I just got tired of sleeping on hard rollers; however, I would wear my hair in a bun on top of my head while sleeping at night to give it the effect that it had been rolled when I wore it out the following morning.  To my surprise, it really started retaining length, and this was before I started my hair care regimen. 

In this economy, it's a privilege to have a job; and in my opinion, a job is more important than hair.  If you don't want to wear your hair out, fine.  There are a lot of cute wigs out there that look natural (100 percent human hair).

Don't let your boss' comments bother you.  There is a solution to this scenario.


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## FlowerHair (Feb 5, 2010)

I agree with previous posters - your bun is a little _too _messy. 

You have to slick down the front no matter what, whether it be with gel or gel + water + scarf or whatever you might need.

Even if you wear your hair down and curly, it needs to be non-frizzy in a corporate setting. 

I'm sorry you're going through this. The hair doesn't have to be straightened, just _neat_. 

Now post a new non-frizzy bun 

Good luck Wyldcurlz! :Rose:


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## Vintageglam (Feb 5, 2010)

Rastafarai said:


> On which sub-forum Stella? I think this is a great idea!



That's a question as I suppose it kinda straddles both hair and career?

Maybe lets put it to the board and see where people would prefer it?


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## catgurl (Feb 5, 2010)

Co-signing on BMP's suggestions particularly the Curlformers!  Really these are a godsend for HHJ!  You don't have to use heat at all, if you don't want to and sleep in them (I do and its a bit uncomfortable but managable). Alternatively, you could sit under a bonnet dryer (a gentler heat since its not direct).

The extra-wide and long will give you soft waves and the regular long and wide ones are better for curlier styles.

There are loads of good demos on YT. IMHO, they are faster and more reliable than flexirods and I was a die-hard flexirod user for over 10 years!

Re: Buns, like you I'm not great at them but I found that using a donut really helps mine look better.  IMHO, the fuller the bun the better it looks.  Donuts are super easy to use too. (check YT again) That said, even with a donut my buns would not work in a fashionable professional setting.  I only wear my buns when I need something v. quick and easy.  For me flowers or ribbons are not appropiate daytime looks and can also look a little teenage or  "trying too hard!" without making the appearance more professional. Those can work it go for it! But that's not me on a regular basis. 

I work in the arts where the demand is to be edgy _and_ professional _and_ on point and most importantly make it _*look **effortless*_ (not necessarily be effortless!). There were times when I needed to get a sew-in because I had too many projects, events, mtgs, etc. and I needed to show that I could do it all, be it all and look good, no make that great, while doing it. 

Good luck and keep us updated.


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## DaughterOfZion1 (Feb 5, 2010)

I would never let some hair hold me back from moving up. Just moisturize.


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## Sasha299 (Feb 5, 2010)

I would say your bun does look more back office than front office IMO. Thank heavens your boss told you to step up your game. 

I usually stink at dry hair buns but I usually throw some deep conditioner in it brush it back and it stays neat the whole day. I usually keep it 2/3 days before washing it out if I'm not going to be following up with a wash and go. I agree with using ornate hair clips to emphasize that you did this intentionally.


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## LifeafterLHCF (Feb 5, 2010)

When did the bun not be professional..I mean unless your in a stripper position or something overt sexy then your hair has nothing to do with your performance..makes me want to shank her..


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## LadyRaider (Feb 5, 2010)

Girlfriend!
I'm the queen of hot mess, and I can put together a better bun that that. You have a lot more hair to make pretty buns too. Smooth your hair better into the bun, and put on a scrunchy or other accessories. 

That bun looks like one you'd wear out to swimming or for a run. 

I think you can dress up your buns and make them neater and ask your boss if they are okay. 

Sometimes I kinda part my hair to the side, and still pull it back into a bun instead of straight back. That might be more flattering for your face. 

You know what I also have been attempting? I've been doing one french braid in the back. And again, you're going to be able to pull if off much better than me because your hair is longer.

If you can't get your edges to lay down... a simple black headband might work. I see Michelle Obama in those with her buns. I don't know why, but a headband dresses up and frames your face better than just slicked back hair.


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## ♥Lamaravilla♥ (Feb 5, 2010)

The bun looks unkempt, I'm sure you can do better than that.


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## JinaRicci (Feb 5, 2010)

chelleypie810 said:


> SO PRETTY! Where the he** are those accessories from. i need to know i need to know! FEEEENNNIIINNNGGG!


 
Looks like Jennifer Behr to me. Here is a link to her bridal collection: 

http://www.jenniferbehr.com/index.php?main=gall&gall=2&thumb=7&page=1


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## genesis132 (Feb 5, 2010)

Darn, did I miss a pic of the bun????


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## Tangie (Feb 5, 2010)

I didn't want to comment until I saw the bun and now that I have, I definitely agree with your boss and your parents. I have a feeling that it doesn't look a whole lot better than that in the mornings. I had the same problem. I couldn't get a decent looking bun to save my life. They always looked a hot mess. Every morning when I got into work I could see my boss staring at my hair. I finally had to start experimenting with different gels to find the right one for me. Once I did, I went into work with a bun and my boss commented on how nice my hair looked. There are a host of fotkis and youtube videos you can go to for great hairstyle suggestions. I am sure you find a few that will work for you.


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## Kurlee (Feb 5, 2010)

almond eyes said:


> No that's not corporate America that is what black women are always telling themselves along with other myths. I know women who are natural in corporate America.
> 
> Best,
> Almond Eyes


society won't change and neither will the rules, if people are always conforming. I would never stress myself out and straighten my hair (4a natural BSL = 4-5 hours to get straight with wash, DC, detangling, blow fry, flat iron) and have to pray that one droplet of sweat won't touch it. For a job. I agree that you have to "play the game", but for me, I have one life to live and I prefer to do it, not living by everyone else's rules. Yes there are rules like the red light example, that we must follow, but for the most part, I want to be in control of my life and my time. The whole puppet thing doesn't work for me.  That is exactly why, like I said before, I chose an area that gives me the room to be myself. I could never be in a position where I am constantly being told what to do, especially with something like my hair.  The joke is, most of the time we compromise and bust our butts for these jobs and they don't even compensate you adequately ($$$) for your work. No thanks!erplexed 

A lot of people are saying just to go along with it and it's just hair, but for black people, is it ever just hair?  Our hair distinctly makes us 'different' and many people, including black people are very uncomfortable with it if it's not 'tamed'. I really think psychologically, it's not a good thing to internalize over time.


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## Kayluv (Feb 5, 2010)

OP, you have beautiful hair, but that bun is a bit messy. It looks as if you are about to run to the grocery store.  You need to talk alittle time to slick your hair and tame those frizzies.  There isn't anything really wrong with your bun, but you need to at least make it look neat.


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## SelfStyled (Feb 5, 2010)

I am thinking if your bun was a little more polished your DM might not have made that comment. You know I can relate. I think a damp bun would work for you and your workout schedule too. Spray some moisturizer on, apply a creamy moisturizer or leave in, a little non alcoholic gel to your edges, and scarf it while you are getting ready. You have beautiful waves and I think the moisture would help to bring them out. Don't forget to accentuate with some nice earrings, when I wear my hair pulled back for work, I always overcompensate with nice earrings and a nice necklace. Don't let your hair hold you back from getting that promotion. I don't even think it is necessary that you have to learn to roller set or straighten. If you want to bun, bun. But learn how to do a fierce bun.


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## Kurlee (Feb 5, 2010)

SelfStyled said:


> I am thinking if your bun was a little more polished your DM might not have made that comment. You know I can relate. I think a damp bun would work for you and your workout schedule too. Spray some moisturizer on, apply a creamy moisturizer or leave in, a little non alcoholic gel to your edges, and scarf it while you are getting ready. You have beautiful waves and I think the moisture would help to bring them out. Don't forget to accentuate with some nice earrings, when I wear my hair pulled back for work, I always overcompensate with nice earrings and a nice necklace. Don't let your hair hold you back from getting that promotion. I don't even think it is necessary that you have to learn to roller set or straighten. If you want to bun, bun. But learn how to do a fierce bun.


yea, I totally agree. I think it helps now that we have all seen the bun. I think it's a bit messy. Just slap a little fantasia IC with sparklelites on that bad boy and you'll be fine. Maybe part it on the side and have a little "swoop". Just a mild one and twist the ponytail hair into a cute bun. Put a scarf on while you're driving to work and take it off right before you go in. It will definitely give you a smooth, polished finish. Good Luck OP! I hope it works out for you


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## dlewis (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurlz, tell us how to get this look?  Maybe we can edit your hair styling process to get the look you need.


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## Ivonnovi (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> for those of you who asked, here is a pic of my bun (at the end of the day)


 
This takes me back to my original post. (tweak your look before anything else) Spend some time in the mirror this weekend and get someone to assist you in updating/tweaking your protective styles)


BTW: we all offer our advice outta love


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## Miss AJ (Feb 5, 2010)

i missed the pic but from looking at post pic responses i figured it couldnt have been the bun STYLE that was the problem, just the way it looked.  In basic training our buns had to be perfect but we had practically no time to style.  Overnight wet bunning with gel and hairspray became my best friend lol. I'm saying al this to say that you can have healthy and polished hairstyles, you just have to figure out the best way to make it work for you.


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## Eritreladiee (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> the answer to this question probably is 'not at all.' i've had a few cute side ones and such and they're okay, but the standard issue bun, i don't know that i could get it to look good on me.* need another low maintenance look.*



Then my suggestion would be to let the bun go altogether and find a style that *SUITS you*. Once you find a style, you can always figure out ways to make it lower maintenance/suit your lifestyle. But definitely suitability should be priority--- because the idea is to be low maintenance without actually looking it.


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## camilla (Feb 5, 2010)

I work for a wine/liquor tasting company part time weekends (bread and butter is in the medical field during the week) this is a job FULL of "barbies" they are all blond, they are all tanned AND uppity/borderline racicist in our company policy WE ARE REQUIRED TO WEAR HAIR DOWN* with* tasteful makeup. we are required to have "the look" i dont mind because thats how i interviewed(with "the look") i know that attractive women will attract sales from men and friendly women will get the females

you are in a field like my day job AND IT SHOULD NOT MATTER BUT... lets keep it 100% we are in the image/sex sells era there are so many people that are talented IE singers who do not do as well as the rihanna's (lord knows that chic can not sing) because they do not fit "the mold what happened to personality AND brains??????? SMDH

SO i half wig for a year (my hair is almost bsl) i can co wash evert two to three days braid up the back and srpay dailt with my elasta h two leave in seal with coconut oil and rebraid in four braids going back daily my hair has gotten thicker, longer and very healthy

check out  she has alot of old vids on walf wigs 

http://www.youtube.com/user/muffinismylovers 

right now i am in the weave challenge i work out four or more days a week so this is great *for me*

If our appearance has nothing to do with our work performance then it should NOT matter how we wear our hair !!!!!!

*ps i am wearing a half wig in my  pic and i have curly ones in my album*


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## FeelinIt (Feb 5, 2010)

DAMN....Did I miss the friggin pic?!?


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## almond eyes (Feb 5, 2010)

Hey, that's exactly what my buns look like!!!!!!!!!! I have have fine hair and fly aways and I have slicked back with toothbrushes, gels, and several brushes and done the hair scarf thing and it still looks fly away unless I use some heat so I no longer bother trying to slick back except with my hands and a head band. My colleague commented to me last year that she didn't like my bun either. So what has been my solution? Well nothing, I just wear elegant cloth head bands (though big flowers and over the top headbands are sometimes viewed as childish and unprofessional). The only way my hair will be slicked down is with heat (or a relaxer) which I refuse to do on a regular basis because my hair is too fine to withstand the heat. Also, I don't like wearing my hair down much either especially in its natural state I prefer protective styling. And it's my own personal issue that when I wear my hair down in my industry because it is male dominated it attracts too much sexual attention which I don't like. For me, because I know that I wear these protective styles that may or may not be appreciated I compensate by making sure my work is on point and that I dress professionally so that my fly aways don't stand out. 

I also realise that I am not under the same pressure as other women so I feel fortunate in that I am in an industry that is a little more forgiving (after all, one of my colleagues from Kenya came to a high level meeting with a brown short spiky tina turner wig and no one dare said a word; though we all held our laughs in and I have also seen a couple of braids literally hanging for its dear life and about to drop after several months of not getting re-done) I don't have to wear my hair down or have it slicked back perfectly, so I do emphathize because I am such a rebel and I don't know what I would do. 

Best,
Almond Eyes


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## Rastafarai (Feb 5, 2010)

Check Post #282 for the pic ladies. It was quoted by Esq.2b.


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## camilla (Feb 5, 2010)

Miss AJ said:


> i missed the pic but from looking at post pic responses i figured it couldnt have been the bun STYLE that was the problem, just the way it looked. In basic training our buns had to be perfect but we had practically no time to style. Overnight wet bunning with gel and hairspray became my best friend lol. I'm saying al this to say that you can have healthy and polished hairstyles, you just have to figure out the best way to make it work for you.


 


FeelinIt said:


> DAMN....Did I miss the friggin pic?!?


 

*PIC IS ON PAGE 31*


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## Rastafarai (Feb 5, 2010)

stellagirl76 said:


> That's a question as I suppose it kinda straddles both hair and career?
> 
> Maybe lets put it to the board and see where people would prefer it?


 
Yeah. I was thinking Off Topic but I'm certain more members visit the Hair Care forum and it would be great for all to have access to the discussion.

Not many folks visit the Career section. lol.


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## Love Always (Feb 5, 2010)

You have beautiful hair OP.  The other ladies have chimed in on your bun and I would just say use the tie down scarf method.  I wear buns everyday and my sides are always slicked down by the end of the day.  I would suggest this product to smooth down your edges:







It's a pretty thick clear pomade that's not greasy at all and it will definitely have you edges smooth all day long .


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## JJamiah (Feb 5, 2010)

I definitely think you should get something to make it a little more neatened, if you still want to wear your bun either learn to make neater buns or, what I do is I use some Eco Styler Gel, Jam or DT gel run a little in my hand put it around the edges of my hair and take a brush and brush all hair into a nice firm pony, comb pony and bun, then POP a PHONY PONY to die for on your hair Self Styled had an awesome phony pony thread a while back, toss on some pearl studs or diamond either are classy. Don't cut your nose to spite your face. You want this promotion and yes IT SUCKS what she said, but try to view her sayings as something she meant well.  


I want to see an update pic if you don't mind on what you did at the end of all of this


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 5, 2010)

i've tried the scarf tie down, using my brothers do rag and it produced the same results. maybe i didn't leave it on long enough?? i've tried to slick down my edges with heavy cream, conditioner, oil or a combination of the three, i dampen it and brush it back with a boar bristle brush and it still get the same result. so i'm not sure what to do. i do have all these little fine short hairs at my hairline and i really don't know how to get them to look sleek (when my hair is curly.) when my hair is straight, its not really a problem...i don't think. 

once i figure it out JJamiah, i will post a pic....maybe.  

thanks for all the helpful comments everyone. i really just don't know what else to do with my hair.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 5, 2010)

lamaravilla said:


> The bun looks unkempt, I'm sure you can do better than that.



i can't do better than that yet because i don't know what to do with my hair. i'm (obviously) not good at styling it. i don't know how to plait, i can't french braid very well. styling my hair has never been my strong point. i can flat iron it really well, but i'm trying to minimize heat use right now. that's why i posted, i need to figure out other styles or ways i can get my edges to lay down better and i've gotten some good suggestions - like leaving a scarf on longer so i plan to give that a try.


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## dlewis (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm going to try to do a tutorial on how I get a sleek looking bun.  My buns on the weekend looks kinda like yours, esp around the edges.  You might find it helpful.  I send it to you by pm, if you would like?


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## Dak (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> i dampen it and brush it back with a boar



Just damp won't work, I know for me, my hair has to be wet, not dripping wet, but wet enough for curls to kick in.  

Try doing it this weekend when you have more time to mess with your hair, maybe after you've washed it.


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## la mosca (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> the answer to this question probably is 'not at all.' i've had a few cute side ones and such and they're okay, but the standard issue bun, i don't know that i could get it to look good on me. need another low maintenance look.


 
I'd ditch the bun altogether for now, given that your boss specifically advised you to stop wearing them.  You've received lots of great advice regarding other low maintenance styles that won't compromise your healthy hair journey.  Please let us know what you decide!


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## LadyRaider (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> i can't do better than that yet because i don't know what to do with my hair. i'm (obviously) not good at styling it. i don't know how to plait, i can't french braid very well. styling my hair has never been my strong point. i can flat iron it really well, but i'm trying to minimize heat use right now. that's why i posted, i need to figure out other styles or ways i can get my edges to lay down better and i've gotten some good suggestions - like leaving a scarf on longer so i plan to give that a try.



Your hair is so pretty. It's time you learned how to show it off. Your hair should be your greatest asset, not something that might keep you back!

Okay.. like I said, I'm the queen of hot mess... but if I had your hair, I would be CUTE EVERYDAY.  Practice some neater buns! Practice French Braiding. Seriously. I'm almost mad at you for having all that pretty hair and you not being able to show it off correctly.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 5, 2010)

dlewis said:


> wyldcurlz, tell us how to get this look?  Maybe we can edit your hair styling process to get the look you need.



Hi DLewis - yes an edit would be great!!! Especially since you know how to make a great bun. in the mornings, i dampen my hairline slightly and apply some conditioner (herbal essences or V05 Tea Therapy) to "smooth it down" (umm, that's apparently NOT working.)  then i brush it back with a boar bristle brush into a ponytail and secure with an nylon band. then i either twist it - as i've seen on different vids or blogs or i make a few twists/braids and wrap them around the base of the ponytail. PLEEEASE if you have any ideas on what i can do to make this look better, let me know! thanks!


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## LadyRaider (Feb 5, 2010)

Guys... at her length... can't she wear a pony tail? Her hair wouldn't be brushing her shoulders because it's so long. I guess you'd still have the slicked back edges though. I just wear a headband as I can't slick back my edges either.

ETA:  here's my hair pulled back with a braid (tony tail that Ateyaaa uses.) Now remember, I'm the queen of hot mess.   I still don't have flat edges, but the headband helps a bit.


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## wyldcurlz (Feb 5, 2010)

dlewis said:


> I'm going to try to do a tutorial on how I get a sleek looking bun.  My buns on the weekend looks kinda like yours, esp around the edges.  You might find it helpful.  I send it to you by pm, if you would like?



PLEASE DO!!!!!!!   of course i want to see it. I really want to know how to do my hair...you'd think in allll these years an as LHCFer i'd have it figured out. please do a tutorial and send it to me!!!! thanks DLewis!


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## dlewis (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurlz said:


> Hi DLewis - yes an edit would be great!!! Especially since you know how to make a great bun. in the mornings, i dampen my hairline slightly and apply some conditioner (herbal essences or V05 Tea Therapy) to "smooth it down" (umm, that's apparently NOT working.)  then i brush it back with a boar bristle brush into a ponytail and secure with an nylon band. then i either twist it - as i've seen on different vids or blogs or i make a few twists/braids and wrap them around the base of the ponytail. PLEEEASE if you have any ideas on what i can do to make this look better, let me know! thanks!



I see what could be an issue.  I'll send you a pm on Sunday.  And list everything.  So you can see how my hair looks like yours (I'll bun tom so you can see that) and I'll do my regular _out of the house _bun on Sunday.


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## NessaNessa (Feb 5, 2010)

*~*Afrolicious*~* said:


> Sorry if this is blunt.
> 
> The bun definitely looks unprofessional and messy for the type of office that you work in. It just looks like you rolled out of bed and didn't really brush it. I know this was end of the day, but in the corporate world there's no excuse for your hair to look like that at the end of the day. I think your boss was looking out for your best interested by letting you know what's up. You may need to take a day or a night after work and play with different hairstyles in order to figure out how to try something different. I took me some time before I mastered different styles, but practice makes perfect! I wish you the best.
> 
> **My hair is in the 3cish range and what helps laying my hair down is braiding my hair into tight plaits after I wash and letting it air dry. This week after I let my hair air dry and unraveled the plaits, I combed my hair with a wide tooth comb and then I put a healthy glop of conditioner on my hair and brushed, made a bun and put a scarf over my head. I havent brushed my hair since this morning, so I hope it works View attachment 56958 ***


 

I agree with your post *BUT* your bun isnt corporate appropriate either.  It very similar to hers except yours is a _bit_ more flat.

Not trying to be rude, but I thought the intent was to give her ideas to improve her bunning technique.  Your bun look VERY similar to hers.  

ETA:  YOU BOTH HAVE BEAUTIFUL HAIR


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## soulfusion (Feb 5, 2010)

d that is so sweet of you.  Wyldcurlz, you do have a pretty head of hair and I do see where your parents are coming from (although I'm erplexed at your boss although she probably means well).  I don't think it's the bun, but rather the kinda messiness of it.  You've gotten a bunch of good tips, so I'm sure you'll work it out.  I don't blame you about the heat.  I definitely wouldn't start doing a lot of flatironing as a solution.  Good luck!



dlewis said:


> I'm going to try to do a tutorial on how I get a sleek looking bun.  My buns on the weekend looks kinda like yours, esp around the edges.  You might find it helpful.  I send it to you by pm, if you would like?


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 5, 2010)

wyldcurls have you tried gel on your edges?

Either way I think it might be time to retire the buns for a while since your boss was so specific and start exploring other sleek professional natural styles, start stalking some fotkis and watching some youtube vids on curly natural hair


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## LushLox (Feb 5, 2010)

The manager has told the OP to wear her hair down and get rid of the buns altogether so this all seems rather moot to me.   Unless the manager_ can _be pacified with some slick and more professional looking buns.

Hope you're not feeling too badly by this all OP.


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## JayAnn0513 (Feb 5, 2010)

Have you tried the curly girl method? Maybe consider wearing wash and go's.


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## FeelinIt (Feb 5, 2010)

Your bun could be more polished.  Your hair would be fine in my department but then I work for the police and it's not that big a deal.  I would wait for D-Lewis' tutorial on how to do your bun.  Your hair looks nice BTW....

Don't forget to post pics of your "new" bun or whatever hairdo you choose.


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## ♥Lamaravilla♥ (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't think conditioner is going to cut it for slicking your edges back. Do you not want to use gel? If you want to stay natural use aloe vera gel, if not eco styler from the BSS will make your edges smooth. 

Also instead of just twisting the hair around I think you should use one of those bun formers things, like a foam donut, to get a nice round bun.


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## LisaLisa1908 (Feb 5, 2010)

OP, I wanted SO badly not to say this, but the simple truth is, your bun IS unprofessional.  It's not neat, it's not tidy, and it doesn't look like you took more than two minutes on it.  One thing that would help if you want to stay committed to your buns is to put it higher on your head and eliminate that poofiness.  And just water and conditioner are not going to work; you are going to have to use a fixative (gel or pomade) to get it smooth).  Dlewis and others have given some great suggestions; I hope you find something that works.

One of the things I noticed is that you say you don't put a lot of effort into your hair for work.  Well, why not?  Is it because you don't feel confident about your skills?  I don't think any of us just woke up one day and magically could work wonders on our heads; it takes practice.  Give yourself some time to watch videos and get some tips on how to do different things; this IS your career we're talking about and what a bonus it would be to find hair styles that work for you personally AND professionally!  

In the meantime, since you want to PS, I think a half wig is your best option for now.  Good luck and God bless.  GET THAT MONEY!


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## sunnydaze (Feb 5, 2010)

Cream Tee said:


> The manager has told the OP to wear her hair down and get rid of the buns altogether so this all seems rather moot to me.  Unless the manager_ can _be pacified with some slick and more professional looking buns.
> 
> Hope you're not feeling too badly by this all OP.


 

Quoting for emphasis.

If boss wants her hair in other styles, a neatly styled bun will come across same as a messy one would..still a BUN.


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## ♥Lamaravilla♥ (Feb 5, 2010)

Or what about phony ponies? Then your ends will still be protected . . .


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## Vintageglam (Feb 5, 2010)

Rastafarai said:


> Yeah. I was thinking Off Topic but I'm certain more members visit the Hair Care forum and it would be great for all to have access to the discussion.
> 
> Not many folks visit the Career section. lol.




Hey Rasta I agree I think the hair section would prob be the best place for maximum exposure and input from the board.


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## locabouthair (Feb 5, 2010)

Not to be a debbie downer but I just wanted to say be careful when you're trying to get your edges sleek. I was brushing and gelling my edges everyday because I wanted it to look sleek with my half wig and the temples started to thin a little bit. 

Maybe you can make a bigger bun with some stockings. A bigger bun could make a difference.


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## LadyRaider (Feb 5, 2010)

The problem with half wigs and the like is that they often take just as much effort and talent to make look good as your real hair. If her problem is that she's having trouble styling, then that same problem will happen with any wig.


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## Miss*Tress (Feb 5, 2010)

I have type 3 hair too, Wyldcurlz, and after I go running in the morning, I do the following:
Rinse my hair.
Apply Lustrasilk Shea & Cholesterol conditioner.
Fully detangle with a large paddle brush.
Spritz all over with Motions Marula Oil.
Make a ponytail.
Twist the ponytail loosely 2-3 times.
Pin it under if the ponytail is high; pin it up if the ponytail is low.
Optional: Brush the front with a soft boar bristle brush; this usually isn't necessary for me as the the conditioner and oil keep my hair smooth.
This results in a shiny, curly textured, frizz-free, large bun. All the French girls in my office ooh and ahh over it and say "I wish my hair could do that."

I have a roller set at the moment so can't take a picture today, but will get one up online by next week just for you.


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## Miss*Tress (Feb 5, 2010)

locabouthair said:


> Not to be a debbie downer but I just wanted to say be careful when you're trying to get your edges sleek. I was brushing and gelling my edges everyday because I wanted it to look sleek with my half wig and the temples started to thin a little bit.


I agree about the potential for damage. I stopped brushing my hairline systematically and it is no frizzier than before. It would be best to let the product do the smoothing.


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## Love Always (Feb 5, 2010)

Thank you for saying this and that's why I suggested the Syntonics.  I too was using gel every day for years and my edges became brittle and started to break and I was using KeraCare by the way.  I finally had to throw in the towel with using gel because my edges were jacked up.  I would suggest the Syntonics to anyone that likes using gel because it holds throughout the day and you don't have to worry about compromising your hair line .



locabouthair said:


> Not to be a debbie downer but I just wanted to say be careful when you're trying to get your edges sleek. I was brushing and gelling my edges everyday because I wanted it to look sleek with my half wig and the temples started to thin a little bit.


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## Eritreladiee (Feb 5, 2010)

The promo depends on OP wearing her hair out-- her boss said she didn't want her hair "slicked back"



Cream Tee said:


> *The manager has told the OP to wear her hair down and get rid of the buns altogether so this all seems rather moot to me. *  Unless the manager_ can _be pacified with some slick and more professional looking buns.
> 
> Hope you're not feeling too badly by this all OP.




erplexed


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## Lexsmarie (Feb 5, 2010)

Corporate America kills me!! I have the same issue. I like wearing my buns because 1.) its easy maintenance 2.) protective style and 3.) I go to the gym during lunch so its easy to deal with. For the most part, I wear my hair in a bun for a week and straight down for a week (alternating weeks). Everytime my hair is down, I get more compliments and my boss would tell me (several times) "You're hair looks really nice, you should wear your hair like that everyday" *hint,hint*erplexed I wonder if wearing my hair in a bun is hurting me professionally to move up the ladder. Now, I'm considering a sew-in. So I too understand your fraustration. Wish I can give you some advice but I'm also trying to figure out this puzzle.


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## kblc06 (Feb 5, 2010)

My texture is very similar to yours, and in order for me to get a sleek bun, I detangle and ponytail my hair while in the shower. After I step out, I apply a dollop of Fantasia IC over my hair, focusing on the edges.  I smooth back with my hands,  and undo the ponytail. While keeping a firm grip on my hair, I take my denman brush in one hand ,  smooth any tangles from my hair, and put my hair back into a ponytail. 

To make a really elegant and protective bun, I made this tutorial:
http://public.fotki.com/kblc06/new-hair-year-3-jan/its-my-21st-birthda/004.html

I've also provided a rollerset tutorial:

http://public.fotki.com/kblc06/new-hair-year-2-jan/wet-rollerset-tutor/

Please let me know how this works for you


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## LushLox (Feb 5, 2010)

kblc06 said:


> My texture is very similar to yours, and in order for me to get a sleek bun, I detangle and ponytail my hair while in the shower. After I step out, I apply a dollop of Fantasia IC over my hair, focusing on the edges.  I smooth back with my hands,  and undo the ponytail. While keeping a firm grip on my hair, I take my denman brush in one hand ,  smooth any tangles from my hair, and put my hair back into a ponytail.
> 
> To make a really elegant and protective bun, I made this tutorial:
> http://public.fotki.com/kblc06/new-hair-year-3-jan/its-my-21st-birthda/004.html
> ...



That is a great tutorial, even as a seasoned rollersetter, you've explained it so well for people who want to give rollersetting a try. Thanks.


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## BlackMasterPiece (Feb 5, 2010)

kblc06 said:


> My texture is very similar to yours, and in order for me to get a sleek bun, I detangle and ponytail my hair while in the shower. After I step out, I apply a dollop of Fantasia IC over my hair, focusing on the edges.  I smooth back with my hands,  and undo the ponytail. While keeping a firm grip on my hair, I take my denman brush in one hand ,  smooth any tangles from my hair, and put my hair back into a ponytail.
> 
> To make a really elegant and protective bun, I made this tutorial:
> http://public.fotki.com/kblc06/new-hair-year-3-jan/its-my-21st-birthda/004.html
> ...


Wow this is everything OP needed to know in one post!!  Your bun is so sophisticated, cute, full professional and sleek

and that rollerset was flawless!!

You should really give a rollerset like kblc06 did a try wyldcurls, it was flawless!


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## lux10023 (Feb 5, 2010)

exactly it is obvious that her manager just doesnt like buns and visually maybe wants the ladies in the office to wear their hair down--so be it--either rock with the way it goes there or deuces...erplexed

i personally dont like buns--they r boring and visually bland to my eye..i dont think growing yoor hair or keeping your hair healthy has to involve a bun...

i woulda had my hair down so quick---shiddddddd...lookin at my new promotion check the next week lmaoooo




Cream Tee said:


> The manager has told the OP to wear her hair down and get rid of the buns altogether so this all seems rather moot to me.  Unless the manager_ can _be pacified with some slick and more professional looking buns.
> 
> Hope you're not feeling too badly by this all OP.


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## *~*Afrolicious*~* (Feb 5, 2010)

NessaNessa said:


> I agree with your post *BUT* your bun isnt corporate appropriate either.  It very similar to hers except yours is a _bit_ more flat.
> 
> Not trying to be rude, but I thought the intent was to give her ideas to improve her bunning technique.  Your bun look VERY similar to hers.
> 
> ETA:  YOU BOTH HAVE BEAUTIFUL HAIR




One of the reason why I found the OP's hair messy, was b/c it wasn't flat and/or neat looking. Considering I work at a university, its fine if my bun isn't considered corporate since I don't work in that environment(at least not until I receive my Masters). My focus is on  making sure my hair look neat. On another note, I definitely think that some of the other styles posted would be good alternatives.


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## cupcakes (Feb 5, 2010)

BostonMaria said:


> I'm confused but here's my dos centavos
> *leave your hair down, get promoted, put your hair back up*
> 
> I'd love to know where you work


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## jada1111 (Feb 5, 2010)

kblc06 said:


> My texture is very similar to yours, and in order for me to get a sleek bun, I detangle and ponytail my hair while in the shower. After I step out, I apply a dollop of Fantasia IC over my hair, focusing on the edges.  I smooth back with my hands,  and undo the ponytail. While keeping a firm grip on my hair, I take my denman brush in one hand ,  smooth any tangles from my hair, and put my hair back into a ponytail.
> 
> To make a really elegant and protective bun, I made this tutorial:
> http://public.fotki.com/kblc06/new-hair-year-3-jan/its-my-21st-birthda/004.html
> ...



I love this!  One of the best tutorials for creating a fuller bun I've seen.  So cute.


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## jada1111 (Feb 5, 2010)

lamaravilla said:


> I don't think conditioner is going to cut it for slicking your edges back. Do you not want to use gel? If you want to stay natural use aloe vera gel, if not eco styler from the BSS will make your edges smooth.
> 
> Also instead of just twisting the hair around I think you should use one of those bun formers things, like a foam donut, to get a nice round bun.



Or Fantasia IC Styling Gel w/Sparklites.  That's my current fav for slicking back edges.


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## LovelyRo (Feb 5, 2010)

For the most part, I am anti-bun on myself.  It's not flattering at all on me and I feel kinda homely in my BEST bun (slicked down and everything)!!!  It just isn't me.  OP you stated that buns aren't flattering on you... as many other ladies have suggested, maybe you should look into other low manipulation (braidout, twistout, rollersets etc.) styles and forgo the bun all together!

On another note, my Grandmother worked in HR for over 20 years (retired in 06) and I know that she would suggest taking your boss's advice.  She's old school though and she believes that we must play the part in order to get where we want to be!!!


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## luckiestdestiny (Feb 6, 2010)

double post...


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## luckiestdestiny (Feb 6, 2010)

Great suggestions everyone, keep em coming. I may try some of these buns...hmmm.


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## angenoir (Feb 6, 2010)

This has been an interesting thread. OP I hope you have a solution to your problem.

OT: Maybe someone can now start a seperate thread showing styles appropriate for corporate situations. 
It may give people more styling ideas. It would def help me as I am style-challenged espcially when I am out of extensions!


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## belle_reveuse28 (Feb 6, 2010)

OP, I agree with the posts about using the scarf, some product and wet hair... I wet bun my hair every morning.. But she's smooth.. like real smooth and my texture is a lot like yours.  I dont know what you feel about CO washing, but you dont actually have to do that.  You can spray your hair with water and wet it, put on some condish to leave in and castor oil on top (castor oil is kinda thick, so it's great for making the hair lay down).  Brush your hair back into the bun and then tie it down with a scarf kinda tight.  Let it stay that way til you get outside of work and take it off.  You should be fine.  I think buns ARE for you, but you could definitely perfect your technique.  It's rather easy to do this, and may I suggest you practice today and tomorrow and see what you can come up with.  IMHO, i would not advise using gel.  Most gels are drying and damage the hair.  While you want a better style, I'm sure you want to maintain the health of your hair.  Another thing I've been doing lately as well as once I put the hair in the ponytail holder (ouchless, seamless holder), I then braid the hair and then wrap it around the holder, making sure I tuck in the end.  It looks sleek adn nice, and very pretty.  I always get compliments and my edges be on point!  Bless you sis, I know it's hard to hear such harsh comments, and honestly, they could have used some diplomacy and tact, but you know--some people lack that...  We can be gentle with each other but honest...  Also, if you should decide to try this, repost another pic cause I wanna see your progress... I know for sure you can do it!  

Be encouraged, 

T

ETA:  I know some discourage against wet brushing, but using a soft brush and going slowly will help you not rip through your hair and tear up your cuticle.  Im very gentle when I do it and my hair is fine--and trust, I have very delicate hair... It likes to fall apart if you look at it too hard


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## FindingMe (Feb 6, 2010)

I don't event think you need to wear it down all the time.  Occasionally, yes, but I don't think you have to sacrifice health for style.  

My suggestions: Get a couple of phony ponies.  You can easily slick the sides and top down more (or not bc sometimes messy/undone compliments the overall style you are going for) and add additional hair AND HAIR ACCESORIES to make your look more polished.  I think your bun is too small and too tight to be "stylish."

Big messy buns at the top, back or side of the head with tasteful accessories will make all the difference.  I think with your hair texture, you could buy some generic synthetic phony pony pieces for a resonable price.  I like Tony Brattin's pieces from HSN.  <--Try one like this in dark or medium brown and you can do your bun the same way you normally do, wrap the fake hair tight for a more controlled bun, twist and clip it up and have the ends hanging for a loose messy up-do, or twist it loosely for a loose messy bun.  Add a nice headband (try forever21 for reasonable, cheap fashionable hair accessories) or accessory and your style quotient just went up 200%! 

I think it's the style and how it doesn't really compliment your overall appearance that's the issue with your boss and I can kinda see where she is coming from.

*Your main thing is that you want your hair to look "intentional" and right now it doesn't.*


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## GodMadeMePretty (Feb 7, 2010)

Just wanted to chime in and say that while the boss did say to wear your hair down more and lose the bun, she may not have meant exactly that.  The bun is messy and looks like you didn't feel like doing your hair that day.  Whereas, she knows that you took some time with the other hairstyles and you WANTED them to look good. This bun shows that you simply don't care how it looks.  At least that's the way it looks to me.  Some of the other buns with all their intricacies show that you care how your hair looks.


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## inspiration150 (Feb 7, 2010)

Like some have said before, I think she needs to let go of the buns, because even if she fixes them then it will still be a bun. Her boss told her to lose the bun. She can still practice them just don't wear them to work. I suggest a half-wig or rollerset.


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## CocoBunny (Feb 7, 2010)

I am hoping to see progress pics and an update from the OP. Did she get a half wig?  Did she master the sophisticated bun? Even tho the boss said no bun, based on the picture I think the boss meant get rid of THAT bun.


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## CocoBunny (Feb 7, 2010)

inspiration150 said:


> Like some have said before, I think she needs to let go of the buns, because even if she fixes them then it will still be a bun. Her boss told her to lose the bun. She can still practice them just don't wear them to work. I suggest a half-wig or rollerset.


 
You may be right but maybe if the boss saw her wearing a NICE, neat bun, then she'd at least know the OP was trying.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 8, 2010)

Based on your length, you may be a candidate for this style. You can do it with your curly hair, it's protective too. You can also do it on a rollerset. It's super easy. I tried to find the tutorial I used for it, but it's been removed.

















I definitely suggest wearing a phony pony or bun. I was the queen of them while relaxed LOL


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## 4hairhealth (Feb 8, 2010)

Unfortunately I have to agree with the boss on this one. I work in corporate america and I am one of 3 black women. I wear my hair in a bun 99% of the time and I received nothing but complements. Even if your hair is in a bun it needs to look polished and well manicured. I use Lustersilk pomade stick to lay my edges down and I smooth the rest with triple silk moisturizer by Neutrogena. After my hair is combed I tie a scarf on my hair and take it off when I get to work. My hair is neat, PROTECTED and PROFESSIONAL all the day long! Best of luck and I hope you don't give up bunning, just improve it!


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## andromeda (Mar 12, 2010)

Any updates, OP?


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## CocoBunny (Jul 5, 2010)

OP any updates?


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## tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT (Jul 5, 2010)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Wear your hair down until you get the promotion and stay on top of moisturizing your ends.  In the mean time, find some youtube updo tutorials so that you can start doing some protective styles that vary from your slicked back style.
> 
> You can be indignant after you can start spending that promotion money.


*
^^^^^ EXACTLY*

I WAS GOING TO SAY THE EXACT SAME DAYUUM THING!!  I WOULD HAVE STRAIGHTENED TO  APPEASE THEM UNTIL THE PROMOTION WAS SECURE..... MADE NOTES OF EVERY WORD SHE HAD MENTIONED TO YOU (AND MADE SURE IT IS ELECTRONICALLY VERIFIED) BY EMAIL TO  MOM, LAWYER IN CASE YOU REALLY HAD A LAWSUIT AHEAD OF YOU (U NEVER KNOW)

NEXT, GOTTEN THE MOST FEROCIOUS "MOISTURIZED WRAP" YOU CAN THINK OF GOING DAILY UNTIL *YOU GOT THAT JOB!!!  AND THEN BUN THAT SHYYTE (AT LUNCH) THE SAME DAY!*
AND I MEAN NEVER, EVER TAKEN THAT BUN DOWN AGAIN UNTIL YOU REACHED YOUR HAIR GOAL    OR UNTIL "YOU SAW FIT"

IF PROBLEMS AROSE  "AFTER YOU HAD BEEN PROMOTED" DUE TO YOUR BUN....... LAWYERED UP!!!!!  YOU'RE GETTING PAID


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## naturalmanenyc (Apr 18, 2013)

wyldcurlz

What ever happened with this?  I was thinking about this thread today since I am back to buns everyday.


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## Bun Mistress (Apr 18, 2013)

Pause.  I'm going to take the other side (not ther devil's advocate but another side)

I wore buns for 2 years STRAIGHT at work and got compliments white I was transitioning and grew my hair out.  Here is how:

Not the sam bun.  I had different buns accessories, no gel ever.  

I twisted of braid my hair every night (I know excessive but I tangle easily, still do). Then the next day took ther twist down and did a bun.  My buns were sort of planned.  I had ther go to fork buns. The braided buns.  But none where the same.  I had flowers, elaborate flowers or Japanese geisha ornaments.  

I actually had people teling me how great me hair looked up.  
Change up your hair, is is ther remedy I think, and yes your hair will still grow.


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## intellectualuva (Apr 18, 2013)

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