# Seeing spirits - biblical references



## phynestone (Sep 15, 2009)

My friend doesn't believe people can see demons because it's not in the Bible. I, on the other hand, believe people can see demons as well as angels. Please tell me where I can find such references in the Bible. I keep thinking about the Word saying one can 'try' spirits, but I don't know where. No, I'm not trying to be lazy, I just don't know where it is.

Nevermind, I found the scripture.


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## Child0fGod (Sep 15, 2009)

so what have you come up with? can you share with us?


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## phynestone (Sep 15, 2009)

I looked into 1 Corinthians 12:10 "...to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits,to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues."

I thought about the phrase "discerning of spirits" and thought God could be speaking of differentiating between angels and demons, good and evil spirits. Someone please come and correct me if I am wrong.


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## Child0fGod (Sep 15, 2009)

phynestone said:


> I looked into 1 Corinthians 12:10 "...to another prophecy, to another *discerning of spirits*,to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues."
> 
> I thought about the phrase "discerning of spirits" and thought God could be speaking of *differentiating between angels and demons, good and evil spirits*. Someone please come and correct me if I am wrong.



yes, that is exactly what discerning of spirits mean... also, false prophets, wolves in sheep clothing, etc. another scripture that relates to I Cor 12:10 "discerning spirits:" I John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, *but try the spirits whether they are of God*: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."



phynestone said:


> My friend doesn't believe people can see demons because it's not in the Bible. I, on the other hand, believe people can see demons...



well, it depends on what you mean by "see." i know that when demons begin to manifest, you can "see" them, as in the way they distort themselves and try to come out (or not) of the person whom they are occupying. also consider what the term "spirit" means and what a SPIRIT is .

*any other brothers and sisters* IN CHRIST *THAT CONFESS JESUS CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH*, please chime in on this matter if you will.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 16, 2009)

Just how many people in the CF can discern whether someone is demonically oppressed, possessed or influenced? Are there any here with such a gift of prophesy to discern false teachers?


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## HeChangedMyName (Sep 16, 2009)

I have the gift of discernment.  

Deuteronomy 18:
10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 

*11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer*. 

 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 

The bolded part deals with fooling around with other worldly spirits. . .i.e demons


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 16, 2009)

HeChangedMyName said:


> I have the gift of discernment.
> 
> Deuteronomy 18:
> 10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
> ...




I know what it refers to but that scripture is not telling me how one personally has the "gift."  How do you know you have it?  How does it manifest itself?  Does G-d tell you in a dream or can you see auras around a person or something like that???  For example, can you tell if someone is consulting astrologers or tarot card readers?  How??  Well obviously, if they don't start out the sentence, "I was looking at my stars today..."  LOLOL.  

I guess what I'm getting at is if people know for sure they can discern something like that in another person (I think we all can sense evil at times in others) or are they confused by the differences in religious practices of people, even christians, so that they "think" someone is not kosher?  So, how does it manifest itself?  Angels warning you, voice of G-d warning you, seeing evil spirits around a person etc.??  Were you a child when you first noticed?


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## Sharpened (Sep 16, 2009)

I have known a couple of people who could see angel and demons. They both described seeing demons as a colored (any color) shadow entering and exiting people they were talking to. It manifest itself as a abrupt change in the possessed person's personality. Have you ever been talking with someone and, all of the sudden, their mood changes drastically for the worst, catching you by surprise?

According to these two, angels never possess anyone and usually pop up randomly, starting after a traumatic childhood experience. One says they look like tiny, albino adults with wings and harps, non-descriptive faces that fade away as he grew older. The angels would come alone or in a group to deliver a message, instruction, or a warning. One swears up and down if it were for their intervention, he would have been dead many times over!

As to why they were having these experiences, neither can answer that. People have told them they were possess, evil, etc. Someone even suggested that they needed an exorcism. One actually talked to a priest who dealt with exorcisms. After the priest described what could happen and clarified to the guy that, yes, he could die, he decided to deal with it.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 16, 2009)

Nymphe said:


> I have known a couple of people who could see angel and demons. They both described seeing demons as a colored (any color) shadow entering and exiting people they were talking to. It manifest itself as a abrupt change in the possessed person's personality.* Have you ever been talking with someone and, all of the sudden, their mood changes drastically for the worst, catching you by surprise?*



Yes, but I attributed that to mental illness lol .  I think it accounts for most of those "cases."    But seriously, lots of people seeing supposed visions from heaven are really cheering themselves on and it's psychological.  That's not all cases, but certainly, some people are convincing themselves.  This is not aimed at Supernova...I'm talking about folks having shrines in their homes and the church hasn't investigated it at all or has done so and determined it false.

I can certainly understand if people do not wish to tell exactly how they have discernment.  I just never knew how it worked. Are they afraid?




Nymphe said:


> As to why they were having these experiences, neither can answer that. People have told them they were possess, evil, etc. Someone even suggested that they needed an exorcism. One actually talked to a priest who dealt with exorcisms. *After the priest described what could happen and clarified to the guy that, yes, he could die, he decided to deal with it.*



You mean the person seeing angels or both?  How did he deal with it?


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## Sharpened (Sep 16, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Yes, but I attributed that to mental illness lol .  I think it accounts for most of those "cases."    But seriously, lots of people seeing supposed visions from heaven are really cheering themselves on and it's psychological.  That's not all cases, but certainly, some people are convincing themselves.  This is not aimed at Supernova...I'm talking about folks having shrines in their homes and the church hasn't investigated it at all or has done so and determined it false.
> 
> I can certainly understand if people do not wish to tell exactly how they have discernment.  I just never knew how it worked.


We have to be careful when judging things by the world's standards; it can block us from seeing God and the enemy at work. I have heard too many stories about God speaking through crackheads to dismiss it. 

The genuine ones are usually humble about it, only revealing to a few all of the things they have experienced.



> You mean the person seeing angels or both?  How did he deal with it?


He just lets it happen and does what he is supposed to do. He tests everything that comes his way, and, so far, the angels have not led him astray. Unfortunately, when he does do the right thing, that's when the demons start messing with his life, whispering in his ear, and all that. He feels like a walking spiritual battleground some days.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 16, 2009)

Nymphe said:


> *We have to be careful when judging things by the world's standards;* it can block us from seeing God and the enemy at work. I have heard too many stories about God speaking through crackheads to dismiss it.
> 
> *The genuine ones are usually humble about it, only revealing to a few all of the things they have experienced.*
> 
> ...



LOL.  We were talking about mood-shifters and mental illness.  I believe we need to know there is the potential for evil in every situation, so I agree, but I don't think there is a demon behind each and every problem, in that sense of it.  Life is imperfect.

But I want to know *how* he tests it.  How does he apply scripture, prayer, etc.?  Which scriptures?  What is the process????  Or anyone who has discernment, for that matter.  How???  Where's HeChanged/Supernova???  My interest is piqued and I'm not getting my answers.

I'm sure he feels like a battleground, I believe that fully.


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## HeChangedMyName (Sep 16, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I know what it refers to but that scripture is not telling me how one personally has the "gift." How do you know you have it? How does it manifest itself? Does G-d tell you in a dream or can you see auras around a person or something like that??? For example, can you tell if someone is consulting astrologers or tarot card readers? How?? Well obviously, if they don't start out the sentence, "I was looking at my stars today..." LOLOL.
> 
> I guess what I'm getting at is if people know for sure they can discern something like that in another person (I think we all can sense evil at times in others) or are they confused by the differences in religious practices of people, even christians, so that they "think" someone is not kosher? So, how does it manifest itself? Angels warning you, voice of G-d warning you, seeing evil spirits around a person etc.?? Were you a child when you first noticed?


 
1 Corinthians
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another *discern*ing of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:



this is just a scripture refering to some of the gifts, in case anyone wasn't sure if discernment was an actual gift.



I have always been a child of God, although I wasn't always aware of the how God gifts us.  I have always had discernment I just didn't know what to call it.  It manifests in different ways.  More often than not, now that I know that is a gift of God, It is used based on the scripture in 
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a *discern*er of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


I have learned not to rely on "feelings" but instead to rely on how a person, their ideas, their motives, and their intentions line up with the Word of God.  And from practicing it, I have learned to recognize and discern much easier and quicker.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 16, 2009)

HeChangedMyName said:


> I have learned not to rely on "feelings" but instead to rely on how a person, their ideas, their motives, and their intentions line up with the Word of God.  And from practicing it, I have learned to recognize and discern much more easier.




That is the answer I was seeking, how it's done.  Thank you.  You look at the fruits of the spirit?  You compare things to scripture.  It's supernatural but not in the way that you see things or beings to be able to tell?  That gives me a lot of clarity in this.  

But what if something or someone is 'mis'-discerned/misjudged rather?  I know that's not a word lol.  In other words, are there times we superimpose our likes or dislikes and misunderstandings?  What comes to mind personally is Joyce Meyers and her ministry (some left her during those investigations and accusations).  I don't think she's done anything wrong...but I sure did wonder about it.  I midjudged her in my "discernment."  Joel Osteen is another....I'm still up in the air about him lol.

For example, if someone goes to a church and there is a pastor misleading the flock but quoting scriptures (wrongly to fit his own agenda and ulterior motives, i.e. fraud) and using psychology to control and mislead folks...can you tell immediately?  There is something that does not set right with you and you feel ill at ease or maybe something comes to mind regarding a scripture you've learned...??  I've actually been in a number of those situations and am glad I didn't stick it out.  But I've also misjudged according to what I thought scripture was saying, even hurting people.  I'm guilty of that, don't know about others.  But I've learned a lot since then.


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## HeChangedMyName (Sep 16, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> That is the answer I was seeking, how it's done. Thank you. You look at the fruits of the spirit? You compare things to scripture. It's supernatural but not in the way that you see things or beings to be able to tell? That gives me a lot of clarity in this.
> 
> But what if something or someone is 'mis'-discerned/misjudged rather? I know that's not a word lol. In other words, are there times we superimpose our likes or dislikes and misunderstandings? What comes to mind personally is Joyce Meyers and her ministry (some left her during those investigations and accusations). I don't think she's done anything wrong...but I sure did wonder about it. I midjudged her in my "discernment." Joel Osteen is another....I'm still up in the air about him lol.
> 
> *For example, if someone goes to a church and there is a pastor misleading the flock but quoting scriptures (wrongly to fit his own agenda and ulterior motives, i.e. fraud) and using psychology to control and mislead folks...can you tell immediately? There is something that does not set right with you and you feel ill at ease or maybe something comes to mind regarding a scripture you've learned...*??


 


Yes, I can tell and it's like they get masked by a wawawas(kinda like the teacher on Charlie Brown).  lol  I have actually experienced it before.  I think the problem comes when people who can discern, make it there problem to "fix" the person.  Prayer is needed first, and sometimes God doesn't need us to do anything but recognize and thank him for his gifting to us.  In the case that I experienced it, I just left the church, both physically---as in I got up and left.  And I stopped attending the church altogether.  I continued to pray for the church though and they did get a new leader who is teaching properly.


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## Sharpened (Sep 16, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> But I want to know *how* he tests it.



Keep in mind, most of this stuff happened to him before he was saved or even read the Bible. He evaluates whether or not the task will cause him problems down the road. When he slacks off, he feel the repercussions right away and it forces him back on the job at hand. As he learned about His Word, the incidents began to decrease, but he still can tell if someone is under demonic influence. For example, every time he sees the former Bush presidents and Dick Cheney, their eyeballs are solid black.

Right now, he and I share that same tension of our living in the last section of Revelations. I really wish he hadn't had told me that.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 16, 2009)

Nymphe said:


> Keep in mind, most of this stuff happened to him before he was saved or even read the Bible. He evaluates whether or not the task will cause him problems down the road. When he slacks off, he feel the repercussions right away and it forces him back on the job at hand. As he learned about His Word, the incidents began to decrease, but he still can tell if someone is under demonic influence. *For example, every time he sees the former Bush presidents* and Dick Cheney, their eyeballs are solid black.
> 
> Right now, he and I share that same tension of our living in the last section of Revelations. I really wish he hadn't had told me that.



I know that Bush was a man of prayer...not to bright in the uptop and well, kinda stupid...but a man of prayer to G-d, nonetheless. He actually sought divine direction.  How would someone see solid black eyes then?  

For myself, I think that in the case of your friend, I wouldn't necessarily trust his "discernment" because it doesn't seem biblically-based.  I'm not judging...it's just that I wouldn't go anywhere near it. He must feel a lot of burden.

Revelations...how do you mean?  I've come to peace with the so-called End Times.  There have been so many evil times throughout history.  Spiritual vigilance has been the key revealed to me.  I try daily.  I dunno, when it's your turn, it's your turn, regarding evil times.  That doesn't mean I don't have a back-up plan, though   I'm not crazy lol.


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## Sharpened (Sep 16, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I know that Bush was a man of prayer...not to bright in the uptop and well, kinda stupid...but a man of prayer to G-d, nonetheless. He actually sought divine direction.  How would someone see solid black eyes then?
> 
> For myself, I think that in the case of your friend, I wouldn't necessarily trust his "discernment" because it doesn't seem biblically-based.  I'm not judging...it's just that I wouldn't go anywhere near it.
> 
> Revelations...how do you mean?



But everything that happened to him lead him to seek out His Heavenly Father and His Son. Moses didn't know God either, but God singled him out anyway. My friend judged on accuracy, as God instructed us to do. 

As far as George Bush goes, the picture the media gives us is not the true one most of the time. I already knew years before he told me our last President wasn't what people on any side of the political spectrum claimed he was, but that's another topic altogether.

By Revelations, I mean the final years before Christ's reign on Earth, and again, another separate topic.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 16, 2009)

Nymphe said:


> But everything that happened to him lead him to seek out His Heavenly Father and His Son. Moses didn't know God either, but God singled him out anyway. My friend judged on accuracy, as God instructed us to do.
> 
> As far as George Bush goes, the picture the media gives us is not the true one most of the time. I already knew years before he told me our last President wasn't what people on any side of the political spectrum claimed he was, but that's another topic altogether.
> 
> By Revelations, I mean the final years before Christ's reign on Earth, and again, another separate topic.



I know what Revelations is...but why are you scared?  I don't believe the media either...but I do know Bush was a man of prayer.

I understand you about your friend.  I'm glad he's found the truth.  I just meant that what he dealt with was intense and I wouldn't wish to be around it without protection.There certainly are things we do not all comprehend.


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## Child0fGod (Sep 16, 2009)

each person here, please be aware of the others religious backgrounds. this will help us discern (no pun intended) the others intentions when asking questions.

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I is catholic and i have no clue of their perspectives on demons, etc. 

let's all be mindful of the other, that's all i'm saying.
thanks


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## discobiscuits (Sep 16, 2009)

Child0fGod said:


> GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I is catholic and i have no clue of their perspectives on demons, etc.



are you quite certain about that?

Honeysuckle, are you still learning Hebrew?


________________________________

I do not have the gift of discernment (at least I don't think so) but I am filled with the Holy spirit and He can discern for me.

I have seen demons before. Not making it up, not embellishing. 

As for scripture references in the bible, OP what scripture did you find?

I know about scriptures where people saw angels of God and fell down to worship and the angel(s) said get up do not worship me (because they knew they were the created and not the Creator Who sent them.

There are hundreds of verses of people seeing real angels that they could hear and touch.



> Num 22:31  	¶  	Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 17, 2009)

1star said:


> are you quite certain about that?
> 
> *Honeysuckle, are you still learning Hebrew*?
> 
> ...



  Yup, sure am.  It's a long story and I was not  too forth-coming previously on where I stood.  I'm Jewishly affiliated and a whole lotta catholic.  What is freeing right for me is that, even though the two do not see eye-to-eye, I have trust that one day things will be made whole and these two cousins will be under the same chuppah. There are many Hebrews who are religiously catholic.

I've both seen and heard angels before.  Well, one of them I know for sure, the others I suspected they were.  I heard St. Gabriel's voice.  I've also seen evil in the form of animals.  I swear (not really supposed to do that) that during our seder once, at Elijah's place-setting/seat, we got up from the table, opened the front door for the invitation and a man walked in and sat at that table.  I saw it in my mind's eye.  He was dressed in a long black robe, slim figure, came in and sat right down.  I turned to my kids and was like .....!!!!  Haven't figured that one out yet.

ChildofGod, thank you for your post.  Your gentle spirit is evident.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 17, 2009)

Nymphe said:


> But everything that happened to him lead him to seek out His Heavenly Father and His Son. Moses didn't know God either, but God singled him out anyway. My friend judged on accuracy, as God instructed us to do.
> 
> 
> By Revelations, I mean the final years before Christ's reign on Earth, and again, another separate topic.



I hope you know I meant no harm in telling you basically to be careful.  He actually sounds like some family of mine...and I know how that is.  They have such a heavy burden and ...whew...intense.

But anyhoo, why don't you start that topic?  There's a new Topics thread.  I'd like to hear what people are taught about Revelations as I never understood it and was later schooled that it was largely allegorical.  I usually pass over that one because it's, well, kinda scary.


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## Sharpened (Sep 17, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I hope you know I meant no harm in telling you basically to be careful.  He actually sounds like some family of mine...and I know how that is.  They have such a heavy burden and ...whew...intense.



Oh, I understand. He doesn't burden most people with it, but he felt safe revealing this to my DH and me. We three usually end up conversing about God and His Word in a deep, but most comforting way.


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