# Does it seem to you that Christians tend to get married young?



## inthepink (May 17, 2009)

Whenever I go to church, I see the youngest-looking people who are married!  Even when I hear about the pastor or anyone in ministry - I hear their story and they met while in college and got married at 23.  How and why does this happen?

In the off-topic board, there is a thread on avoiding or not avoiding relationships while in college.  It seems like many Christians go to Christian colleges in hopes of meeting their future spouse (I have read stories where some were disappointed when this didn't happen though).

So, as a Christian, sometimes I feel even less likely to meet someone near my age b/c even more Christian men around my age are already married - not just 2-3 years married but like 10 years married!!

Have you noticed this?  Why do you think it happens?  Did you get married young (and were both Christians at the time).


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## Lucie (May 17, 2009)

I think many young Christians get married young so that they can have sex. When I was going to church it seemed that many members over the age of 18 were marrying rather quickly. It always worried me because once the honeymoon phase was over, what happens next? I can appreciate wanting to follow God's laws. But marriage is something that should be done for the right reasons. While sex is great, it does not pay the bills or last all day long.


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## MizzBrown (May 17, 2009)

I also figured one of the top reasons was Sex.

The thought of marrying someone at age 18 or 19 years old?  

Wasn't even close to being ready...still wet behind the ears.


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## divya (May 18, 2009)

I believe this depends combination of things, including not only our religion but our culture, education etc. Most Christian couples in my experience - particularly in my church and our area churches - are the opposite. Most of us have concentrated on getting at least our college education and then have married.  

My fiance and I are getting married next year, and we are both in our late twenties. We focused on completing education first, which is emphasized in our families. However, we both attended secular colleges. We are excited, but it is not a rushed affair.  Marriage is for life.

Honestly I see what you are speaking of more so with people living deeper into the South. Attending a Christian college likely makes a significant difference.  An exception is the fundamental Baptist school I attended in my elementary years. A number of them are already married, have children etc. It seems to work for the majority of them though because the support system is strong.


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## topsyturvy86 (May 18, 2009)

PrettyHaitian said:


> *I think many young Christians get married young so that they can have sex.* When I was going to church it seemed that many members over the age of 18 where marrying rather quickly. It always worried me because once the honeymoon phase was over, what happens next? I can appreciate wanting to follow God's laws. But marriage is something that should be right for the wrong reasons. While sex is great, it does not pay the bills or last all day long.


 


MizzBrown said:


> *I also figured one of the top reasons was Sex.*
> 
> The thought of marrying someone at age 18 or 19 years old?
> 
> Wasn't even close to being ready...still wet behind the ears.


 
ITA. I have also noticed that even older Chrisians date for a much shorter period of time before getting married.


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## Allandra (May 18, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Whenever I go to church, I see the youngest-looking people who are married!  Even when I hear about the pastor or anyone in ministry - I hear their story and they met while in college and got married at 23.  How and why does this happen?
> 
> In the off-topic board, there is a thread on avoiding or not avoiding relationships while in college.  It seems like many Christians go to Christian colleges in hopes of meeting their future spouse (I have read stories where some were disappointed when this didn't happen though).
> 
> ...


I've seen it happen so much.  I believe a lot of young Christians are getting married so they can (freely) have sex.

IMO, people haven't even gotten to know their own selves at those young ages.

I didn't get married young, and I am so glad I waited.

Like PrettyHaitian said, once the honeymoon is over (for the young couples), what's next?


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## Allandra (May 18, 2009)

PrettyHaitian said:


> I think many young Christians get married young so that they can have sex. When I was going to church it seemed that many members over the age of 18 where marrying rather quickly. It always worried me because once the honeymoon phase was over, what happens next? I can appreciate wanting to follow God's laws. But marriage is something that should be right for the wrong reasons. *While sex is great, it does not pay the bills or last all day long.*


Thank you.


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## PaperClip (May 18, 2009)

A couple of things (in my humble opinion):

Just as the average age of people getting married has increased in society, so it has increased in the church.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-02-17-marriage-campaign_N.htm
The average age at first marriage is now almost 26 for women and 28 for men. And a growing percentage of Americans aren't marrying at all: Provisional federal statistics released Tuesday report 7.1 marriages per 1,000 people in 2008, down from 10 per 1,000 in 1986.

I think it's a generational thing. My mother got married at 20. I'm twice her age she was then and I'm still waiting to be married. Women did not have the same employment opportunities back then as they do now. So marriage was a viable option for women re. security, etc. I certainly have expanded opportunities than my mother did back in the day.

Yes, some Christians of various ages who want to do their best to honor their faith get married relatively quickly to have sex. And it would be interesting to explore the correlation between fast marriages and the higher divorce rates among Christians.

Per the point about after the sex, what's next? Here's one response to that: my pastor's wife got married at 18 and she's been married going on 28 years so do the math she's been married basically her entire adult life and she had her first child at 20 years old. And they got married like 4 months after getting together (they had known each other like five years before they actually got together). I recall saying to her at one time (when I was in my early 20s and in college and was expecting to graduate from undergrad and going on to a career) that marriage takes the fun out of life. She quickly remarked that that wasn't the case and that they have a lot of fun together and she loves her family, etc. Yes, there's a lot of life beyond the sex, so that means that the couple (whether young or old) has to have the maturity to handle everything else. Some young marrieds are prepared for that, through supportive upbringing and pre-marital counseling, etc. And some aren't nearly ready.

My pastor's wife has also said to me that it's nice that I have been able to go to school and do other things while I'm single. It's not impossible to go to school while juggling marriage and children, but it's certainly easier. On those days when I'm feeling esp. lonely and heartbroken, I remind myself of this.... sometimes it relieves the loneliness.... sometimes it doesn't.

I thank the Lord for His divine will because back then I was also real wet behind the ears and not even ready for all the responsibility that marriage brings....


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## inthepink (May 18, 2009)

Yes, I should have been more clear in my original post.  I didn't mean 18 or 19. I meant more after college at age 22/23/24 years old.



divya said:


> I believe this depends combination of things, including not only our religion but our culture, education etc. Most Christian couples in my experience - particularly in my church and our area churches - are the opposite. Most of us have concentrated on getting at least our college education and then have married.
> 
> My fiance and I are getting married next year, and we are both in our late twenties. We focused on completing education first, which is emphasized in our families. However, we both attended secular colleges. We are excited, but it is not a rushed affair.  Marriage is for life.
> 
> Honestly I see what you are speaking of more so with people living deeper into the South. Attending a Christian college likely makes a significant difference.  An exception is the fundamental Baptist school I attended in my elementary years. A number of them are already married, have children etc. It seems to work for the majority of them though because the support system is strong.


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## inthepink (May 18, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> ITA. I have also noticed that even older Chrisians date for a much shorter period of time before getting married.



Yes and for older Christians (I know a few) it's not necessarily about the sex.  It's really b/c they are at an age where they know what they want (marriage) so they don't need to play around and be engaged for 4 years.  They date for 6 months to a year.  Get engaged and are married within 6 months.


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## inthepink (May 18, 2009)

Allandra said:


> *I've seen it happen so much.  I believe a lot of young Christians are getting married so they can (freely) have sex.*
> 
> IMO, people haven't even gotten to know their own selves at those young ages.
> 
> ...



I agree with this and I definitely believe it to be true for younger Christians.  I've even heard that some churches/church leaders advocate for a couple to get married if they can't wait to have sex - b/c _*at least *_they aren't having sex outside of marriage and I totally disagree with that and probably leads to a lot of divorce in the Christian circle.  

I will say that I would bet there is a good number of Christian couples who married young for the RIGHT reasons though and just happened to be young.


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## inthepink (May 18, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> A couple of things (in my humble opinion):
> 
> Just as the average age of people getting married has increased in society, so it has increased in the church.
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-02-17-marriage-campaign_N.htm
> ...



See, I think in the secular world it is a generational thing. But it seems like in the Christian circle that even today it is pretty popular.

For the secular world, I think marriage age has increased b/c people figure well, they can get the milk without buying the cow...so to speak.


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## BeautifulFlower (May 18, 2009)

hairlove said:


> See, I think in the secular world it is a generational thing. But it seems like in the Christian circle that even today it is pretty popular.
> 
> *For the secular world, I think marriage age has increased b/c people figure well, they can get the milk without buying the cow...so to speak.*


 
Its in the church too...they just feel bad about it.

But I do see alot of young couples. One minister (forgot who) said, in older-biblical setting, biology tells you when you're ready for marriage. When you begin to have urges for sex and interest in the opposite sex, thats not your queue to start a relationship. Its your queue to start getting ready for a spouse. Of course this starts a very young age. Thats why most got married young because they were ready young. Some churches still practice this. 

From brief observation however I noticed alot of men were 30+ before they had children. I still will look at this. This would imply the age gap between husband and wife was 5 to 10 years easy; more on the 10yrs side.


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## PaperClip (May 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Its in the church too...*they just feel bad about it*.
> 
> But I do see alot of young couples. One minister (forgot who) said, in older-biblical setting, *biology tells you when you're ready for marriage. When you begin to have urges for sex and interest in the opposite sex, thats not your queue to start a relationship. Its your queue to start getting ready for a spouse. Of course this starts a very young age. Thats why most got married young because they were ready young.* Some churches still practice this.
> 
> From brief observation however I noticed alot of men were 30+ before they had children. I still will look at this. This would imply the age gap between husband and wife was 5 to 10 years easy; more on the 10yrs side.


 
First bolded: that's true! LOL!

Second bolded: this is interesting to explore. Don't know if I agree... but it's interesting.... (I think) Some of those folk who got married young were simply horny, period. Others were trying to escape from parental authority. Others had no place to go. Others found the person they wanted to commit to earlier in life.


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## BeautifulFlower (May 18, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> First bolded: that's true! LOL!
> 
> *Second bolded: this is interesting to explore. Don't know if I agree... but it's interesting.... (I think) Some of those folk who got married young were simply horny, period. Others were trying to escape from parental authority. Others had no place to go. Others found the person they wanted to commit to earlier in life*.


 
Or marriages were simply arranged but the prettiest or oldest tend to marry first.

Alot of different aspects working here.


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## inthepink (May 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> *Its in the church too...they just feel bad about it.*
> 
> But I do see alot of young couples. One minister (forgot who) said, in older-biblical setting, biology tells you when you're ready for marriage. When you begin to have urges for sex and interest in the opposite sex, thats not your queue to start a relationship. Its your queue to start getting ready for a spouse. Of course this starts a very young age. Thats why most got married young because they were ready young. Some churches still practice this.
> 
> From brief observation however I noticed alot of men were 30+ before they had children. I still will look at this. This would imply the age gap between husband and wife was 5 to 10 years easy; more on the 10yrs side.



Yep...nothing is 100% one way or the other! erplexed


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## inthepink (May 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Or marriages were simply arranged but the prettiest or oldest tend to marry first.
> 
> Alot of different aspects working here.



OT:  I remember watching part of the Ten Commandments movie.

I remember all of the women vying for Moses' attention and making fun of the oldest one.  She didn't vie for his attention at all and guess who he chose? I thought that was interesting.


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## divya (May 18, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Yes, I should have been more clear in my original post.  I didn't mean 18 or 19. I meant more after college at age 22/23/24 years old.



Oh ok! Interesting though because I see those ages as being not that young for marriage.


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## Amour (May 18, 2009)

I think that Christians do get married much younger than general society. 

This definately seems to be the case in my church.


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## inthepink (May 18, 2009)

Well, I'm 36 (and hanging on to it for dear life) so I guess I see it as young in comparison to when other people, in general, get married nowadays.  Typically seems more like 27 or later.



divya said:


> Oh ok! Interesting though because I see those ages as being not that young for marriage.


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## ChelzBoo (May 18, 2009)

hairlove said:


> See, I think in the secular world it is a generational thing. But it seems like in the Christian circle that even today it is pretty popular.
> 
> For the secular world, I think marriage age has increased b/c people figure well, they can get the milk without buying the cow...so to speak.




ITA. a lot of people already have a negative view of marriage and like to "sow their wild oats" per say without even pondering marriage. and then once they start to get a little older then they realize that they dont want to end up 60 alone and still doin the same thing they were when they were 20 or 30.

IMO marriage to secular folks is a last resort type thing (to some not all), and those of the christian faith usually see it opposite and as one of the most imporant things one could do in life.

 i think some people who marry young do it because at the end of the day...like paul said it.... its better to marry than to burn.


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## hopeful (May 19, 2009)

Hairlove, I posted in this thread yesterday but now my post has disappeared. Idk what happened. The main point of my post was that if it is meant to be God will send you a kind, loving husband, and none of the supposed "facts" will matter.  Don't worry about all of the young Christians who get married. You just need one guy who was made just for you.  Hold on and stay positive.


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## inthepink (May 19, 2009)

hopeful said:


> Hairlove, I posted in this thread yesterday but now my post has disappeared. Idk what happened. The main point of my post was that if it is meant to be God will send you a kind, loving husband, and none of the supposed "facts" will matter.  Don't worry about all of the young Christians who get married. You just need one guy who was made just for you.  Hold on and stay positive.



Thanks hopeful! You always have such sweet words of encouragement!

A little OT:  You know, I was thinking about this and I know it's not 100% tried and true type thing.  Sometimes I think I am screwed b/c I didn't become a Christian until early 30s and so I missed out on finding a Christian guy (cuz they all married young, right?).  But I have a good friend who's been a Christian since she was a child - lived a Christian life and is now 40 and has basically been a perpetual single, too.  And I think - man, I guess nothing is a given.  It's still makes me sad though b/c so many good women deserve a good man and they have just not been brought together yet.


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## PaperClip (May 19, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Thanks hopeful! You always have such sweet words of encouragement!
> 
> A little OT: You know, I was thinking about this and I know it's not 100% tried and true type thing. Sometimes I think I am screwed b/c I didn't become a Christian until early 30s and so I missed out on finding a Christian guy (cuz they all married young, right?). But *I have a good friend who's been a Christian since she was a child - lived a Christian life and is now 40 and has basically been a perpetual single, too.* And I think - man, I guess nothing is a given. It's still makes me sad though b/c so many good women deserve a good man and they have just not been brought together yet.


 
That's if you think that the epitome of success in life and happiness is marriage. I hope that your friend is fulfilled in other ways because there's no such thing as all fulfillment coming just one way. 

I'm not sure what the terms "perpetual single" means. I'm just turned 40 and don't consider myself a perpetual single by any means. In fact, I just had to be reminded about the benefits of singleness and to maximize the freedom that I have to do what I can do right now, e.g., full-time schooling. And this is after a weekend of miserable loneliness that today I can write this because of the grace and mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I can name on one hand at least three of my friends who have been married at least two times BEFORE they were 40. Now do I want that?


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## inthepink (May 19, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> *That's if you think that the epitome of success in life and happiness is marriage. I hope that your friend is fulfilled in other ways because there's no such thing as all fulfillment coming just one way. *
> 
> * I'm not sure what the terms "perpetual single" means.* I'm just turned 40 and don't consider myself a perpetual single by any means. In fact, I just had to be reminded about the benefits of singleness and to maximize the freedom that I have to do what I can do right now, e.g., full-time schooling. And this is after a weekend of miserable loneliness that today I can write this because of the grace and mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ.
> 
> I can name on one hand at least three of my friends who have been married at least two times BEFORE they were 40. Now do I want that?



*Pink* - She's a VERY happy, fulfilled person!  But she does long to be married. 

*Green* - It may mean something different to all people.  I just mean someone who rarely has a boyfriend - or has spent the majority of their life single. Not saying it 'defines' you - just a shortened description.


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## aribell (May 19, 2009)

ChelzBoo said:


> ITA. a lot of people already have a negative view of marriage and like to "sow their wild oats" per say without even pondering marriage. and then once they start to get a little older then they realize that they dont want to end up 60 alone and still doin the same thing they were when they were 20 or 30.
> 
> IMO marriage to secular folks is a last resort type thing (to some not all), and those of the christian faith usually see it opposite and as one of the most imporant things one could do in life.
> 
> i think some people who marry young do it because at the end of the day...like paul said it.... its better to marry than to burn.


 
ITA.  I wouldn't advocate anyone marrying young *just* to have sex, but it seems that what keeps a lot of people single by choice into their late 20s is the desire to live life as they want to, enjoy what they want, pursue what and whom they want, have fun, and not have to be responsible for anyone else.  Although many Christians have the same attitude, many are also taught that having a family is a blessed thing, and that God doesn't call us to live for ourselves but for others.  

The engagements are popping up weekly of all the people I went to college with, and I think that it's a values thing.  They deeply value children, marriage, family, church, and just being "settled" in general.  A lot of them are also seminary students/future pastors and missionaries looking for their wives.


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## PaperClip (May 19, 2009)

hairlove said:


> *Green* - It may mean something different to all people. I just mean someone who rarely has a boyfriend - or has spent the majority of their life single. Not saying it 'defines' you - just a shortened description.


 
Ok... but that's still a secular/societal(?) concept being applied to a Christian context.

The Christian context is no sex outside of marriage.

The Christian context is to "court" versus "date".

The Christian context is to seek and connect with someone spiritually compatible.

So when you say "rarely has a boyfriend", how many is enough? How many boyfriends move you from "rare" to "often" to "frequent"?

When does the single life begin? 16? 18? 21? 25? 30?

The term doesn't define or defend (me), it demonstrates the range of perspectives as influenced by upbringing, for example.

ETA: meant to say "The term doesn't define or OFFEND (me)....


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## ChelzBoo (May 19, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> ITA.  I wouldn't advocate anyone marrying young *just* to have sex, but it seems that what keeps a lot of people single by choice into their late 20s is the desire to live life as they want to, enjoy what they want, pursue what and whom they want, have fun, and not have to be responsible for anyone else.  Although many Christians have the same attitude, many are also taught that having a family is a blessed thing, *and that God doesn't call us to live for ourselves but for others.  *



ITA. and i think that staying single for too long can become detrimental especially if its by choice. considering the fact that usually the person is used to pleasing themselves and only themselves so its like alot of people live a looooooooooong season of selfishness in a sense.


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## PaperClip (May 19, 2009)

ChelzBoo said:


> ITA. and i think that staying single for too long can become detrimental especially if its by choice. considering the fact that usually the person is used to pleasing themselves and only themselves so its like alot of people live a looooooooooong season of selfishness in a sense.


 
Not sure if you and Nicola are saying the same thing. Apostle Paul talks about the freedoms that come with singleness to serve the Lord, and ergo, serving others, as Nicola said. Marriage and family do not make serving the Lord and serving humankind impossible, but certainly more difficult in terms of time management, for example. 

There's more than one example of a person who has a "great" ministry and their home/married life is in utter and complete hell.

Believe it or not, but there are some Christians who simple do not have the desire for marriage and that's ok. It's really not the end of the world and they are fulfilled. (I am not one of them, BTW). 

And when you say that staying single for too long can be detrimental? How so? Are people shooting up places because they're single or because they are poor, got fired from their job, got rejected? That sounds extreme but the point is that Apostle Paul said "Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." (Phil 4:11-13).

So this thing was something that Paul had to LEARN. It didn't happen automatically. And even in his learning, he noted that it is through Christ that he gets the strength to keep learning and keep going.

As do I....As we all should....


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## inthepink (May 19, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Ok... but that's still a secular/societal(?) concept being applied to a Christian context.
> 
> The Christian context is no sex outside of marriage.
> 
> ...



Sorry - I wasn't even thinking THAT deeply about it...I was just trying to describe something.


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## aribell (May 19, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Ok... but that's still a secular/societal(?) concept being applied to a Christian context.
> 
> The Christian context is no sex outside of marriage.
> 
> ...



ITA.  I think one of the main reasons Christian "singles" (I don't even think the label is necessary) struggle so much is that we're thinking about relationships and marriage in worldly terms.  Something like "She never has a man" implies that there is supposed to be a steady stream of men flowing in and out of a woman's life.  How many "men" are we supposed to have in all?  I believe that as far as the Lord is concerned, if you are unmarried, you are FINE!  If you aren't dating, you are fine.  It's all about finding yourself in _His_ will.  _He _is not the one telling singles that there must be something wrong with them if they don't have a "man"--it's the world that's saying that, and other Christians in their misunderstanding.

Now, if people are struggling finding someone, then that might be a practical or intrapersonal problem (hopping between this thread and the Perpetual Singles one) that can be addressed, but for Christians, there really shouldn't be any extra value judgements placed on being single.  It's like women like Hannah and Elizabeth in the Bible.  If society weren't basing a woman's worth solely on her ability to bear children, they may not have found themselves so distraught over the fact that they were barren.  In the church at least, we should have a different mentality. (sorry if I veered a little ot).


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## Bunny77 (May 19, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> And when you say that staying single for too long can be detrimental? How so? Are people shooting up places because they're single or because they are poor, got fired from their job, got rejected?



I think Chelz means that these people get used to a life of hanging out, partying, making lots of $$$ to spend on cars/houses/boats/electronics, etc... while not choosing to take on a wife and raise a family.

When I meet men in their mid-late 30s that say they aren't "ready" for marriage, most of them simply enjoy living perpetual bachelor lifestyles where they only focus on making themselves happy... but they still want to date and have girlfriends too... and "maybe" they'll decide to marry them eventually. 

That was how I read her post.


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## inthepink (May 19, 2009)

Sorry guys - I totally agree with you on the worldy/dating thing.  It was not my intention to bring another idea into the thread! I didn't mean that at all! I was just trying to describe my friend who is not married and yet 40 but has not had many opportunities for finding a marriage partner.  Sound better? I hope so...I didn't mean to throw the whole thread off by using a secular term!

ETA:  I wanted to come back to this and say that some Christians do still "date" and not court.

For me, I will probably have to mix the two especially if I were to meet someone on the internet.  I need to, at some point, meet him and I would consider that a date.  I'd be doing this to get to know him b/c there wouldn't really be another means since we wouldn't have similar friends or I didn't meet him in a group of people.  I hope that makes sense.


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## PaperClip (May 19, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> I think Chelz means that these people get used to a life of hanging out, partying, making lots of $$$ to spend on cars/houses/boats/electronics, etc... while not choosing to take on a wife and raise a family.
> 
> When I meet men in their mid-late 30s that say they aren't "ready" for marriage, most of them simply enjoy living perpetual bachelor lifestyles where they only focus on making themselves happy... but they still want to date and have girlfriends too... and "maybe" they'll decide to marry them eventually.
> 
> That was how I read her post.


 
Well ultimately we all have free will, so should a man (or woman) choose to remain single, that's their perrogative, that's their choice. For some, it is a conscious choice to remain single, possibly for the sake of ministry or for other, possibly selfish reasons.

I have not ever encountered a man in my life (in church or out of church), esp. of an older age, who emphatically said they did not want to marry. I believe (some) men want to DELAY marriage for as long as they can. I think some men plan to delay but they meet the right woman at the right time. I'm fully persuaded that people (men included) do what they want to do when they want to do it. I can only think of one man that I know (he attends my church) who is about 47 years old who is not married and says he wants to get married but puts no actions behind his words.

It's a double standard, though. Men can be bachelors with whirlwind lives but women past 25 are labeled as spinsters or cock-blockers (can I say that in the CF?) meaning that they get the label that they don't "need" a man and what can a man do for her? She's driving good, smelling good, living good, pulled up in that candy apple red Lexus SC Convertible and stepped out in those Christian Ls with the brand new black leather Coach on her arm and the Bulova watch on her wrist.... (yes, I have two of the three things I just listed here!)

And these remarks are within the Christian context.


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## PaperClip (May 19, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Sorry guys - I totally agree with you on the worldy/dating thing. It was not my intention to bring another idea into the thread! I didn't mean that at all! I was just trying to describe my friend who is not married and yet 40 but has not had many opportunities for finding a marriage partner. Sound better? I hope so...I didn't mean to throw the whole thread off by using a secular term!
> 
> ETA: I wanted to come back to this and say that some Christians do still "date" and not court.
> 
> For me, I will probably have to mix the two especially if I were to meet someone on the internet. I need to, at some point, meet him and I would consider that a date. I'd be doing this to get to know him b/c there wouldn't really be another means since we wouldn't have similar friends or I didn't meet him in a group of people. I hope that makes sense.


 
Do you really think you know what your friend's dating opportunities are/have been? I mean, maybe y'all are tight like that but maybe she's turning down men left and right according to her standards and not giving you the play-by-play.... 

Yes, Christians date... it's lawful but is it expedient? Is dating healthy? Or is it practice for how to separate from someone you might have entered into a soul tie with (as I have heard dating described)?

Again, in the Christian context, dating is this worldly practice being attempted to shadow courting. Beyond those "traditional" marriage ages, courting can still be healthy and beneficial. Will I go out to dinner and occasions with a man to get to know him? Yes, but there would be agreement on the PURPOSE of those interactions. Maybe that's the difference between dating and courting: PURPOSE...DEFINED PURPOSE.... Dating can be purposeful, but courting or some form of it means that the purposes of those interactions are well-defined and agreed upon... Ah... agreed upon.... maybe that's the big difference. And after a certain age, time is too precious for anybody to be guessing what and where anyone's mind/intentions are.


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## inthepink (May 19, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> *Do you really think you know what your friend's dating opportunities are/have been? I mean, maybe y'all are tight like that but maybe she's turning down men left and right according to her standards and not giving you the play-by-play.... *
> 
> * Yes, Christians date... it's lawful but is it expedient? Is dating healthy? Or is it practice for how to separate from someone you might have entered into a soul tie with (as I have heard dating described)?*
> 
> * Again, in the Christian context, dating is this worldly practice being attempted to shadow courting. Beyond those "traditional" marriage ages, courting can still be healthy and beneficial. Will I go out to dinner and occasions with a man to get to know him? Yes, but there would be agreement on the PURPOSE of those interactions. Maybe that's the difference between dating and courting: PURPOSE...DEFINED PURPOSE.... Dating can be purposeful, but courting or some form of it means that the purposes of those interactions are well-defined and agreed upon... Ah... agreed upon.... maybe that's the big difference. And after a certain age, time is too precious for anybody to be guessing what and where anyone's mind/intentions are.*



*Blue* - I've spent a great deal of time with this person as one point in time and got to know her really well so I believe what I've been told is true.  I trust she hasn't just said those things for no reason.  I was there as she did some internet dating - I mean, really, really trying.  And I was partially around when she did meet a guy who eventually became her boyfriend.  So, no, I never got the impression that she was turning down guys left and right. She was actually VERY open.  Letting people she knew know she was single and open for blind dates.  Going to things where there would be available men etc - you get my point. 
*
Green* - Yep, absolutely! I am right here with you on this one! I have no desire to "casually date" internet men.  I will go on a date since there is no other means (that I can think of) to get to know them but that does not mean they will come to my house to watch a movie or anything like that.  And this is only out of necessity.  While I'm internet dating, if I happen to meet a guy at church, I will spend time with him as a group until more purpose is established!


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## ChelzBoo (May 19, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> I think Chelz means that these people get used to a life of hanging out, partying, making lots of $$$ to spend on cars/houses/boats/electronics, etc... while not choosing to take on a wife and raise a family.
> 
> When I meet men in their mid-late 30s that say they aren't "ready" for marriage, most of them simply enjoy living perpetual bachelor lifestyles where they only focus on making themselves happy... but they still want to date and have girlfriends too... and "maybe" they'll decide to marry them eventually.
> 
> That was how I read her post.



thats exactly what i was trying to say. i apologize if i wasnt clear.


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## chicacanella (May 23, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Its in the church too...they just feel bad about it.
> 
> But I do see alot of young couples. One minister (forgot who) said, in older-biblical setting, biology tells you when you're ready for marriage. When you begin to have urges for sex and interest in the opposite sex, thats not your queue to start a relationship. Its your queue to start getting ready for a spouse. Of course this starts a very young age. Thats why most got married young because they were ready young. Some churches still practice this.
> 
> From brief observation however I noticed alot of men were 30+ before they had children. I still will look at this. This would imply the age gap between husband and wife was 5 to 10 years easy; more on the 10yrs side.


 
*I just wanted to be my $10 worth in the conversation and it feels weird to say this but I'm talking to my LHC Christian Forum sistas. My future husband is five years older than me and doesn't have any children. And he says he's only been in four relationships with the longest lasting 8 months. Now, that seems pretty short to me but I don't believe you have to go through a string of relationships to know what kind of person you like.*

*In the world, they'll frame it as: Well, your only 21...don't you want to date and have fun first? Meaning...don't you want to wait till' you are pushing 30, fornicated with 10-15 different people, got drunk and partied and then settle down. *

*I think it is important for women and men of God to learn what kind of traits they like and this can be ushered in by parental and perhaps church figures. This can be done perhaps through fellowship or just being friends without any romantic notion. *

*I also believe it is a ploy of the enemy to make people think that they have to do all these things like travel, make 100k a year, get 50 degrees and then, get married. I mean, it's just biological that at a certain age human beings begin to have sexual desire and the longer you wait to get married, the more chance you have of sinning. Of course, we have The Holy Spirit. For me personally, alot people would say I'm too young to get married but God says that I will be soon so who am I going to listen to?*

*Plus, I have a lot of passion and desire that I'm looking forward to unleashing...in God's timing though...in His timing.*


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## trenise (May 23, 2009)

Just in general, without having done a study or having stats on it, I would say yes that those getting married between ages 19 to 23 do tend to be the Christians. But this is based on my limited observation. However, being Christian does not mean marrying young. I have had several friends who are Christian and older, marrying for the first time, or are still unmarried. There also appears to be a racial difference in the young marrying age, but I am in the deep south.


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## goldielocs (May 26, 2009)

I think that as long as both people are strong Christians who are prepared emotionally, spiritually and financially for marriage then so be it. 
I got married at 25 and some of my family thought that was too young.  

While we were dating, my husband and I talked about what we were looking for and we were both seeking marriage partners.  We talked about what we thought the purpose of marriage was and we discussed our expectations from a potential mate.  Of course we were very attracted to one another, but our focus was on the ministry of marriage.  

I am glad Chirstians are getting married younger. Their commitment shows others that there is an alternative to fornication. 

My 2 cents...

-Nicole


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## PaperClip (May 26, 2009)

goldielocs said:


> I think that as long as both people are strong Christians who are prepared emotionally, spiritually and financially for marriage then so be it.
> I got married at 25 and some of my family thought that was too young.
> 
> While we were dating, my husband and I talked about what we were looking for and we were both seeking marriage partners. We talked about what we thought the purpose of marriage was and we discussed our expectations from a potential mate. Of course we were very attracted to one another, but our focus was on the ministry of marriage.
> ...


 
Just so I'm clear: you're saying marriage is an alternative to fornication?


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## inthepink (May 26, 2009)

goldielocs said:


> I think that as long as both people are strong Christians who are prepared emotionally, spiritually and financially for marriage then so be it.
> I got married at 25 and some of my family thought that was too young.
> 
> While we were dating, my husband and I talked about what we were looking for and we were both seeking marriage partners.  We talked about what we thought the purpose of marriage was and we discussed our expectations from a potential mate.  Of course we were very attracted to one another, but our focus was on the ministry of marriage.
> ...



Thanks for sharing.  I agree with you! I don't think there's anything wrong with Christians getting married young.

In fact, this past weekend at church, I met a young couple who were engaged to be married.  To see this young guy and this  young girl both committed to each other whereas on the flipside, they could be out partying and sowing their oats...it was pretty refreshing to see.

And what was so cute is that he was trying to set up his cousin with me! I think it's really neat to see marriage being something wanted as opposed to something to be afraid of.  I wish more people could see this.


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## goldielocs (May 26, 2009)

FoxyScholar,

In a way, I am.

Since a major part of marriage centers around fulfilling the desire to have sex-  then yes, marriage is one alternative to fornication. One can always abstain or become celibate.  That was not something I was able to handle so I took a serious look at what it took to build a marriage and that became my focus.

I'm new to the LHC forum and I'm still learning how to quote.


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## PaperClip (May 26, 2009)

goldielocs said:


> FoxyScholar,
> 
> In a way, I am.
> 
> ...


 
So if marriage is one alternative, what is/are other alternative(s)?

Marriage doesn't solve lust, right?


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## goldielocs (May 26, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> So if marriage is one alternative, what is/are other alternative(s)?
> 
> Marriage doesn't solve lust, right?


 

The only other alternative is to abstain from sex if one is unmarried.  And no, lust doesn't disappear once you marry.  There are times when I want to be with my husband so I do. Marriage gives people a safe place to have sex the way God intended us to- without shame.

Did you find something offensive or wrong in my statements? If so, please feel free to share your point of view.


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## PaperClip (May 26, 2009)

goldielocs said:


> The only other alternative is to abstain from sex if one is unmarried. And no, lust doesn't disappear once you marry. There are times when I want to be with my husband so I do. Marriage gives people a safe place to have sex the way God intended us to- without shame.
> 
> Did you find something offensive or wrong in my statements? If so, please feel free to share your point of view.


 
Just curious about the application of the term "alternative".... 

I would not say/place marriage as an ALTERNATIVE to fornication. That's a tall order/expectation to place on marriage.


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## goldielocs (May 26, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Just curious about the application of the term "alternative"....
> 
> I would not say/place marriage as an ALTERNATIVE to fornication. That's a tall order/expectation to place on marriage.


 
Why do you think that's too high an expectation to place on marriage?


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

goldielocs said:


> Why do you think that's too high an expectation to place on marriage?


 
Well for one, sex is but ONE aspect of marriage. It is a major part, but just one part.... and what happens, for whatever reason, when a couple cannot have sex.... what happens with the marriage? How does that couple adjust?

What's the alternative for a person who wants to have sex but cannot/has not found a suitable/willing marriage partner?

I know what the Bible says about marriage and burning.... I think that scripture gets stretched way out of proportion.... if one is burning, does he/she marry the first willing person to alleviate the burning... or was the Apostle Paul advocating marriage for a couple (regardless of age) who have discovered some levels of compatibility...agreement...in a number of areas....go ahead and marry.... but not just to appease a burst of sexual desire....


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## goldielocs (May 27, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Well for one, sex is but ONE aspect of marriage. It is a major part, but just one part.... and what happens, for whatever reason, when a couple cannot have sex.... what happens with the marriage? How does that couple adjust?
> 
> What's the alternative for a person who wants to have sex but cannot/has not found a suitable/willing marriage partner?
> 
> I know what the Bible says about marriage and burning.... I think that scripture gets stretched way out of proportion.... if one is burning, does he/she marry the first willing person to alleviate the burning... or was the Apostle Paul advocating marriage for a couple (regardless of age) who have discovered some levels of compatibility...agreement...in a number of areas....go ahead and marry.... but not just to appease a burst of sexual desire....


 
The pink part-  
      I understand sex is one part of marriage.  That's why I had to focus on and learn about marriage before I ran out and married the first guy that asked.  Those conversations I had with my husband before we got married were a result of that preparation.  I had to be assured that this man was who God had for me.  If sex stops in a marriage, that's where the spiritual and emotional maturity kicks in. Trust me- things are not always happy in the marriage bed.  If one partner can't or won't participate, the other partner has to lean on the Lord for help if lust becomes an issue. There may be physical, communication, emotional or spiritual issues.  Just like with any other issue that comes up in marriage, you have to work together to solve the problem and ask God for help.  

The purple part- From what I've read and have been taught, celibacy *is *the only alternative.  When I was single, my spiritual mother told me to focus on God's purpose in my life and continue to have faith.  It was frustrating but I didn't have any other choice.  

I hope I was some help, but I don't think I was.  I'll look up some scriptures and do some reading to see if I find out anything else. 

Be Blessed,
Nicole


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

goldielocs said:


> FoxyScholar,
> 
> In a way, I am.
> 
> ...


 


goldielocs said:


> The pink part-
> I understand sex is one part of marriage. *That's why I had to focus on and learn about marriage before I ran out and married the first guy that asked.* Those conversations I had with my husband before we got married were a result of that preparation. I had to be assured that this man was who God had for me. If sex stops in a marriage, that's where the spiritual and emotional maturity kicks in. Trust me- things are not always happy in the marriage bed. If one partner can't or won't participate, the other partner has to lean on the Lord for help if lust becomes an issue. There may be physical, communication, emotional or spiritual issues. Just like with any other issue that comes up in marriage, you have to work together to solve the problem and ask God for help.
> 
> The purple part- From what I've read and have been taught, celibacy *is *the only alternative. When I was single, my spiritual mother told me to focus on God's purpose in my life and continue to have faith. It was frustrating but I didn't have any other choice.
> ...


 
Per the bolded sentences: how did you know that you could not abstain? Did you even try? How much effort was put into abstinence? How/what part does faith and honoring the Word of God have in making the decision that you could not abstain from sex outside of marriage?

Abstinence (which is different from celibacy by definition) is not an alternative to fornication. It is the choice of holiness.

It's useful to acknowledge that a person who may have practiced fornication prior to giving their life to Christ (or who knew Christ intimately and yet engaged in fornication) may/probably has greater difficulty in abstaining from sex outside of marriage because the sex switch has been turned on, as it were.... versus a person who has not had sex at all, e.g., the sex switch has not been turned on....


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## Amour (May 27, 2009)

goldielocs said:


> The pink part-
> I understand sex is one part of marriage. That's why I had to focus on and learn about marriage before I ran out and married the first guy that asked. Those conversations I had with my husband before we got married were a result of that preparation. I had to be assured that this man was who God had for me. If sex stops in a marriage, that's where the spiritual and emotional maturity kicks in. Trust me- things are not always happy in the marriage bed. If one partner can't or won't participate, the other partner has to lean on the Lord for help if lust becomes an issue. There may be physical, communication, emotional or spiritual issues. Just like with any other issue that comes up in marriage, you have to work together to solve the problem and ask God for help.
> 
> The purple part- From what I've read and have been taught, celibacy *is *the only alternative. When I was single, my spiritual mother told me to focus on God's purpose in my life and continue to have faith. It was frustrating but I didn't have any other choice.
> ...


 

I agree with all that you have said. I dont see anything wrong with your journey towards marriage 

I dont see why some people make it harder than it has to be. If you are in a stable relationship i.e. spirtually, finacially, emotionally etc are in love and know that you will be committed to a person whats the big deal - go ahead and get married!

It was *said *in the Bible it is better to marry than to burn!

Why do you have to wait to see whether you can abstain or not? Why tempt yourself with temptation!


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

Amour said:


> I agree with all that you have said. I dont see anything wrong with your journey towards marriage
> 
> I dont see why some people make it harder than it has to be. If you are in a stable relationship i.e. spirtually, finacially, emotionally etc are in love and know that you will be committed to a person whats the big deal - go ahead and get married!
> 
> ...


 
What's really harder, burning in the flesh or being in a marriage built simply on a burn (and little else)?

The oft-quoted "burn" scripture is in the SAME CHAPTER (1 Corinthians 7) where Paul starts off saying that a man shouldn't even touch a woman (verse 1) but if they cannot avoid touching each other (because of their healthy passion), they should marry. In fact, he says it TWICE in the same chapter (verses 2 and 9). They should get married to avoid fornication, not as an option, but as a last resort(?)....

The abstinence question isn't about waiting to see if one can abstain. That is the only option unless/until one makes a conscious decision to marry. The sentiment as I had read them from the poster sounded like (to me) that one should just find somebody to marry to fulfill sexual desire VERSUS a couple who are (hopefully) in a stable, godly relationship and want to live holy before the Lord but they simply can no longer restrain themselves. In that case, go ahead and marry.


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

Food for thought....

http://www.biblebb.com/files/mac/1829.htm


*What to Do While You Wait for Marriage?*
There are several things Christians can do to control themselves sexually before marriage.

1. Channel your energy through physical work and spiritual ministry.
Idle moments do not help at all. We should avoid listening to, looking at, or being around anything that strengthens the temptation to sin sexually. Program your mind to focus only on that which is good and helpful (Phil. 4:8).

2. Don't seek to be married for the sake of being married.
You run a great risk of marrying the wrong person that way. Seek to love, and let marriage be a natural response. Seek to honor Christ in your life and in all your relationships, and let God bring about a marriage.

3. Let go of the sex-mad, adulterous world.
Be careful what you let into your senses--what you see, what you hear, and where you go. Whatever you allow in your mind is going to have a great impact on you.

4. Program your mind with the Word of God.
Your behavior is a direct result of what you put in your mind. Pray for purity and stay in the Word.

5. Count on divine enabling for you to live without sexual fulfillment.
Until God gives you the right person, He will provide strength for you to resist temptation. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:13, "God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, that you may be able to endure it" (NASB).

6. Avoid potentially tempting situations.
Stay away from them, because even though you may feel you're innocent, you may not be able to control someone else.

7. Praise and thank God in the midst of your singleness.
Be content in what God is doing in your life now, not always being concerned with what will happen in the future.

8. Be accountable to a close Christian friend of the same sex.
Don't live alone, travel alone, or go places alone where you will be vulnerable. Stay accountable to someone who is mature and who understands your needs.


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## aribell (May 27, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> 8. Be accountable to a close Christian friend of the same sex.
> *Don't live alone, travel alone*, or go places alone where you will be vulnerable. Stay accountable to someone who is mature and who understands your needs.


 
Is the bolded really necessary?  Is that to avoid temptation?


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## Bunny77 (May 27, 2009)

I didn't get the sense that Nicole married mainly to avoid fornication, but we are given a sex drive, and if the sex drive is one of the things that push humans toward marriage, then I think that is very good thing. 

25 is pretty close to the average age of marriage in the United States anyway.


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## goldielocs (May 27, 2009)

Good Morning FoxyScholar,

Just decided to post some responses to your questions.

*"That's why I had to focus on and learn about marriage before I ran out and married the first guy that asked." *He was not the first person to ask and I am very happy I was prepared enough to realize that other person was not the right one for me.

*It's useful to acknowledge that a person who may have practiced fornication prior to giving their life to Christ (or who knew Christ intimately and yet engaged in fornication) may/probably has greater difficulty in abstaining from sex outside of marriage because the sex switch has been turned on, as it were.... versus a person who has not had sex at all, e.g., the sex switch has not been turned on....* 

You could be right.  I'm not sure since I did have sex before I was married. 

*The sentiment as I had read them from the poster sounded like (to me) that one should just find somebody to marry to fulfill sexual desire VERSUS a couple who are (hopefully) in a stable, godly relationship and want to live holy before the Lord but they simply can no longer restrain themselves. In that case, go ahead and marry.* 

Apparently, we had a communication problem. Your understanding of what I wrote is not the message I intended to get across.  You're right, people should be in a godly relationship prior to deciding to get married.  Also, if a person is celibate, but they have a desire to get married, they should prepare themselves before they start dating/courting.  I read about what marriage was, my duties to a future husband, I determined what I wanted from a marriage and what I needed to give in one.  That is why I was able to have those conversations with him while we were courting.  There was a purpose in that preparation.




FoxyScholar said:


> Per the bolded sentences: *how did you know that you could not abstain? Did you even try? How much effort was put into abstinence?*
> 
> For the record, I got saved at 22 and had been celibate for a year prior so when I got married, I'd been celibate for about 4 years.  My husband and I dated/courted for 9 months before he proposed and we got married 3 months later.
> 
> ...


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Is the bolded really necessary? Is that to avoid temptation?


 
I'm reposting the bolded for clarity: *Don't live alone, travel alone*,







 Hmmm.... I live by myself and I've traveled alone before....

I think the idea behind that is an issue of accountability? If you live/travel alone, there's time and opportunity for some things to happen and no one has to know... there's not anyone you really have to answer to(?)....

Everybody's "sandwich" is different, right.... For me, living/traveling alone is not my tempting thing.... but __________________________ probably is.... Notice I'm not putting it out there so as to not give it any opening in my space right now....


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> I didn't get the sense that Nicole married mainly to avoid fornication, but we are given a sex drive, and if the sex drive is one of the things that push humans toward marriage, then I think that is very good thing.
> 
> 25 is pretty close to the average age of marriage in the United States anyway.


 
True.... no denial of a healthy sex drive or a healthy desire to marry. No disagreement on that point.

I questioned the point (the way I read/filtered it) about the seeming impossibility of abstinence. I also noted upthread that a person who may have engaged in fornication before giving their life to the Lord may have a different difficulty than a person who has not engaged in fornication.


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## Kurlee (May 27, 2009)

Seven Love said:


> I think many young Christians get married young so that they can have sex. When I was going to church it seemed that many members over the age of 18 were marrying rather quickly. It always worried me because once the honeymoon phase was over, what happens next? I can appreciate wanting to follow God's laws. But marriage is something that should be done for the right reasons. While sex is great, it does not pay the bills or last all day long.


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