# HE that findth a "WIFE" findth a good thang!



## gn1g (Feb 23, 2008)

yes THANG.  that's funny.  But I am not going there . . .



My question is how *aggressive *should the woman be?  

I have a friend that has never been married she is 54ish and she is still waiting on the Lord to send him directly to her.  She really does not go outside of her comfort zones, home, work church etc.


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## envybeauty (Feb 23, 2008)

It says he that "findeth" not she that "pursueth"....


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## kbragg (Feb 23, 2008)

gn1g said:


> yes THANG. that's funny. But I am not going there . . .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
As aggressive as she wanna be! If that's how God desgined her you can best believe there's a man who can handle it lol. Hey Martin Luther's (Not Dr. King, but Reformation Martin Luther) wife came after HIM lol! He was scurred of ole' girl, but she got that man boy!

If you haven't seen it yet, check out the movie "Luther." It is soooo good! Ole' girl did NOT play forreal! She was a perfect match for him definately!


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## tffy2004 (Feb 23, 2008)

nvybeauty said:


> It says he that "findeth" *not she that "pursueth"....*



 so true. I think this is why so many women end up in marriages that are erplexed

The friend of the Original Poster is a smart woman

*nvybesuty*, Love the statement in your siggy, I feel the same way


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## kbragg (Feb 23, 2008)

nvybeauty said:


> It says he that "findeth" not she that "pursueth"....


 
But it order to be found one must make their presence known It's like that verse "Many are called but few are chosen." Why is that? Because the ones who are chosen are the ones that step up to the plate.


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## shalom (Feb 23, 2008)

kbragg said:


> But it order to be found one must make their presence known It's like that verse "Many are called but few are chosen." Why is that? Because *the ones who are chosen are the ones that step up to the plate.*


 
I agree, but what happens if you are shy?

I'm off the check out the movie "Luther".


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## gn1g (Feb 23, 2008)

kbragg said:


> As aggressive as she wanna be! If that's how God desgined her you can best believe there's a man who can handle it lol. Hey Martin Luther's (Not Dr. King, but Reformation Martin Luther) wife came after HIM lol! He was scurred of ole' girl, but she got that man boy!
> 
> If you haven't seen it yet, check out the movie "Luther." It is soooo good! Ole' girl did NOT play forreal! She was a perfect match for him definately!


 

Love your answer! 

My thoughts is that you have to get in the way, not necessarly pursue, and yet remain a lady.  Some women do tooooooooooo much and are extremely aggressive but like KBragg said the man for the aggressive woman can handle the womans aggressiveness.


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## kbragg (Feb 23, 2008)

shalom said:


> I agree, but what happens if you are shy?
> 
> I'm off the check out the movie "Luther".


 
Well...you gotta lean on your boldness is Christ Ms. Lady Let me preface that though. I'm not talking about "chasing" a man who's no good and shows no interest in you and coming across as deparate. I'm just speaking of being proactive.

For example if you pray "Lord, I need a breakthough in my finances!" but you still watch Oprah, still run up your credit cards, still have the same spending habits, and don't become a better stewart of what you have, then if God doesn't drop manna/ombey from heaven into your lap, don't assume it's "just not God's will" for you to be free from financial bondage. He's wanting to see if you can be trusted with what you have because he knows if he gives you more, it'll ruin you, and a good Daddy doesn't do that to his kids.

So if you say "Lord send me a husband" but spend 99.9% at home in hermit mode, don't assume that "it's not God's will" for you to be married...you're just hiding and caint be found!


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## Bunny77 (Feb 23, 2008)

gn1g said:


> yes THANG.  that's funny.  But I am not going there . . .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think she needs to do more than what she's doing now if she wants a husband, and it doesn't mean she has to be aggressive.

To me, being aggressive involves pursuing a man, and I disagree with that. However, if she wants to be "found," she needs to put herself in more places in which she can be found! Expand her comfort zones and social circles so she can be exposed to more men who might be "hunting."

And no offense to anyone in this thread, but I don't think that sitting around for 30+ years "waiting on the Lord" to send you a husband is very smart at all. It's more passive than anything to me... 

(KBragg, I agree with what you're saying!)


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## kbragg (Feb 23, 2008)

gn1g said:


> Love your answer!
> 
> My thoughts is that you have to get in the way, not necessarly pursue, and yet remain a lady. Some women do tooooooooooo much and are extremely aggressive but like KBragg said the man for the aggressive woman can handle the womans aggressiveness.


 
Yes ma'am! Actually if you watch the movie, she demonstrates the perfect balance of boldness while still being a lady! That woman was on fire for God! The Lord knew what he was doing boy cuz if you look at all the Martin Luther accomplished for God, and the persecution he went through so that we could have the religious freedom we have today, you will see why the Lord sen him a woman who could handle that! He needed someone who could challenge him. She didn't play boy, she's my new shero lol


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## envybeauty (Feb 23, 2008)

tffy2004 said:


> so true. I think this is why so many women end up in marriages that are erplexed
> 
> The friend of the Original Poster is a smart woman
> 
> *nvybesuty*, Love the statement in your siggy, I feel the same way



Thanks....I guess mixed kids today don't think so..oh well.

I agree that is why marriages fail or women don't get to the point of marriage because they are the ones going after ole boy.  A man should pursue a woman...many men today say they enjoy the chase. If a woman want to pursue, that's fine. But that does not mean that she has a happy relationship.


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## PaperClip (Feb 23, 2008)

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: I have yet to meet a woman/wife who has offered a story of "positioning herself" in such a way to be found. So either A LOT of women are lying or the Word of God is true: HE that findeth, happens upon a WIFE, findeth a good thing....

I have yet to hear of a situation where there was a balance between positioning oneself and being found....


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## Bunny77 (Feb 24, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: I have yet to meet a woman/wife who has offered a story of "positioning herself" in such a way to be found. So either A LOT of women are lying or the Word of God is true: HE that findeth, happens upon a WIFE, findeth a good thing....
> 
> I have yet to hear of a situation where there was a balance between positioning oneself and being found....



Hey girl!  

I guess the question is, how are we defining "positioning?" 

I can give stories of women who met their husbands online, for example, and I consider that positioning. 

Or women who were wavering about going to a certain event, but decided to go at the last minute and then they met the men who became their husbands.

The men did find them, but they put themselves out there so the men could happen upon them. Those are the types of examples I'm referring to... do you mean something different though?


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## Keen (Feb 24, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Hey girl!
> 
> I guess the question is, how are we defining "positioning?"
> 
> ...



I have the same line of thinking. You don't have to blatenly walk up to the guy. If you only stay home and go to church, where do you expect to find that man? If you keep on getting invited to events, maybe that's God's way of putting you in the right place to be found.


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## kbragg (Feb 24, 2008)

Keen said:


> I have the same line of thinking. You don't have to blatenly walk up to the guy. If you only stay home and go to church, where do you expect to find that man? If you keep on getting invited to events, maybe that's God's way of putting you in the right place to be found.


 
This was my line of thinking as well. Now rue, with God ALL things are possible, no doubt! However, I have yet to hear of an instance where a Denzel lookalike godly single man, just knocked on a woman's door one day and said "I just 'felt led" to knock on your door....want to go out on a date?"That is unless of course you are looking to marry the UPS man, which by some previous threads I'd imagine is not the "ideal" husband anyway lol.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 24, 2008)

*As it relates to the original question of aggressiveness and the later topic of positioning; I say be a Ruth (see Ruth 3). She positioned herself to be favored  by and married to Boaz. Note: she did this at the instruction and guidance of her mother-in-law Naomi. This is an example of positioning oneself to be found. Even with the end result, this story is not a how-to-get-a-man manual, rather it is an example or "type" of how Christ is our kinsman/redeemer and honor. 
*


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## Bunny77 (Feb 24, 2008)

jenniferohjenny said:


> *As it relates to the original question of aggressiveness and the later topic of positioning; I say be a Ruth (see Ruth 3). She positioned herself to be favored  by and married to Boaz. Note: she did this at the instruction and guidance of her mother-in-law Naomi. This is an example of positioning oneself to be found. Even with the end result, this story is not a how-to-get-a-man manual, rather it is an example or "type" of how Christ is our kinsman/redeemer and honor.
> *



Great example!


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## Starr1 (Feb 24, 2008)

I had to "position" myself to be found because my poor husband was so dense in the beginning!It took him MONTHS to realize that I liked him and then he had the nerve to tell me that he would have asked me out sooner if I had only made the fact that I was interested more obvious!

We met at school (Christian college) and I just knew he was the man for me, so you better believe I made sure to just-so-happen to be at all the same school functions, events, and bible studies that he was. I invited him to sit next to me in chapel, or to go out with a group of friends to a coffee shop, or have lunch me in the courtyard. I wasn't aggressive or desperate or pushy, I didn't go chasing him down, but I was out and about so he couldn't help but see me. I kept it lady like but I made myself known and after a while he took notice. I let him pursue me: the more he knew about me, the more he wanted to know; the more he spent time with me, the more he wanted to spend time with me; and the more he saw that I was a woman of God who eventually wanted a Godly husband, the more he wanted to make sure that *he* was that husband.

If I had kept to myself and not put myself in a position to be noticed, then I seriously doubt my shy DH would have asked me out of his own accord.


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## PaperClip (Feb 24, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Hey girl!
> 
> I guess the question is, how are we defining "positioning?"
> 
> ...


 
Maybe I think I mean something different. Of course I think Ruth "positioned herself"...and she had the covering and direction of her mother-in-law. But it seems that there are some married women who did some "assertive/aggressive" positioning but portray it like the man did everything....And then these same women want to put down other women who might apply some "unconventional" forms of positioning.

My GOD, I wish things could have happened the way it happened for my mom or my pastor's wife. All that sounded so easy. I don't think those ways have changed because times have changed, but then again, maybe they have....

I just know that I've tried a lot of ways... spent some (a lot) of money to "position myself"....Sigh....


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## All_Me (Feb 25, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Well...you gotta lean on your boldness is Christ Ms. Lady Let me preface that though. I'm not talking about "chasing" a man who's no good and shows no interest in you and coming across as deparate. I'm just speaking of being proactive.
> 
> For example if you pray "Lord, I need a breakthough in my finances!" but you still watch Oprah, still run up your credit cards, still have the same spending habits, and don't become a better stewart of what you have, then if God doesn't drop manna/ombey from heaven into your lap, don't assume it's "just not God's will" for you to be free from financial bondage. He's wanting to see if you can be trusted with what you have because he knows if he gives you more, it'll ruin you, and a good Daddy doesn't do that to his kids.
> 
> *So if you say "Lord send me a husband" but spend 99.9% at home in hermit mode, don't assume that "it's not God's will" for you to be married...you're just hiding and caint be foun*d!


 
Good answer!


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## gn1g (Feb 25, 2008)

Modern Day Ruth, Boaz was a working man, that's what I'm talking about. She position herself on his property.  That's my kinda girl.


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## shalom (Feb 25, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Well...*you gotta lean on your boldness is Christ Ms. Lady* Let me preface that though. I'm not talking about "chasing" a man who's no good and shows no interest in you and coming across as deparate. I'm just speaking of being proactive.
> 
> For example if you pray "Lord, I need a breakthough in my finances!" but you still watch Oprah, still run up your credit cards, still have the same spending habits, and don't become a better stewart of what you have, then if God doesn't drop manna/ombey from heaven into your lap, don't assume it's "just not God's will" for you to be free from financial bondage. He's wanting to see if you can be trusted with what you have because he knows if he gives you more, it'll ruin you, and a good Daddy doesn't do that to his kids.
> 
> So if you say "Lord send me a husband" but spend 99.9% at home in hermit mode, don't assume that "it's not God's will" for you to be married...you're just hiding and caint be found!


 
This is true.


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## kbragg (Feb 25, 2008)

gn1g said:


> Modern Day Ruth, Boaz was a working man, that's what I'm talking about. She position herself on his property. That's my kinda girl.


 
Yep! And remember also, what stood out about Ruth in the first place was not that she was fine or available, or even that she was looking for a husband, but the fact that she was a hard worker. She was working hard as unto God, and as a result found favor with man.

Oh yeah, don't forget muh gurl Ms. Hadassah (Ester) She too positioned herself, and saved a whole nation from genocide! She was da hotness forreal

Oh side note on the Ester topic. How come everytime I read the part where the king asks Queen Vashti to come to the party, why do I always interpret her response as "Negro please! You must don't know 'bout me!"It got flipped on her though cuz it was him that said "To da left, to da left"


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## klb120475 (Feb 25, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Yep! And remember also, what stood out about Ruth in the first place was not that she was fine or available, or even that she was looking for a husband, but the fact that she was a hard worker. She was working hard as unto God, and as a result found favor with man.
> 
> Oh yeah, don't forget muh gurl Ms. Hadassah (Ester) She too positioned herself, and saved a whole nation from genocide! She was da hotness forreal
> 
> Oh side note on the Ester topic. How come everytime I read the part where the king asks Queen Vashti to come to the party, why do I always interpret her response as "*Negro please! You must don't know 'bout me!"It got flipped on her though cuz it was him that said "To da left, to da left"*


 
Kbragg......you so stoopid! You keep me laughing!!


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## gn1g (Feb 25, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Yep! And remember also, what stood out about Ruth in the first place was not that she was fine or available, or even that she was looking for a husband, but the fact that she was a hard worker. She was working hard as unto God, and as a result found favor with man.
> 
> Oh yeah, don't forget muh gurl Ms. Hadassah (Ester) She too positioned herself, and saved a whole nation from genocide! She was da hotness forreal
> 
> Oh side note on the Ester topic. How come everytime I read the part where the king asks Queen Vashti to come to the party, why do I always interpret her response as "Negro please! You must don't know 'bout me!"It got flipped on her though cuz it was him that said "To da left, to da left"


  That's funny, I hope she had a box!


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## klb120475 (Feb 25, 2008)

Just so ya'll know Boo is actively seeking me.


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## Janice (Feb 25, 2008)

I believe that most women should be "preparing " rather than "positioning". It should not be up to us to find our husbands. The Lord takes care of that  while we discover our purpose or simply walk in daily obedience to him while trusting (doing his will). Ruth and Esther were doing the Lord's will (accomplishing their purpose). There was never the idea behind the back of their heads of let me get close to this man so I can marry him. Their mates discovered them. Both men were attracted to these ladies because they saw the passion in these two women concerning the things of God. 

I believe that if you want a true godly man, just focus on doing the things of the Lord, a godly man will notice you even when you think he is not looking. If you have to "work" to get a guy before seeing your heart than that brother is not spiritually mature yet in my opinion. A godly man, whether shy or not will pursue!

Michelle Hammond puts it best in her most recent book of that in finding our purpose , we discover out mates along the path. God is the the ultimate matchmaker and his timing is best. He knows our desires and will put that one in our face when we least expect it. When we seek to put him first, then everything will be added unto us.

Its hard as single women to not cosume our thoughts on meeting the one but once you release it and truly forget about then that is when it will come. "Unless a grain of wheat fall to the ground and dies, it cannot be made alive." Our desires must die and be surrended so that it can manifest.


Now if you ask me why women are taking longer to get married and as to why there are more singles in the church then ever before, that is a whole another story. There are a lot of factors that attribute to that are a  combination of social, economic and spiritual influences.


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## chinadoll (Feb 25, 2008)

Janice said:


> I believe that most women should be "preparing " rather than "positioning". It should not be up to us to find our husbands. The Lord takes care of that while we discover our purpose or simply walk in daily obedience to him while trusting (doing his will). Ruth and Esther were doing the Lord's will (accomplishing their purpose). There was never the idea behind the back of their heads of let me get close to this man so I can marry him. Their mates discovered them. Both men were attracted to these ladies because they saw the passion in these two women concerning the things of God.
> 
> I believe that if you want a true godly man, just focus on doing the things of the Lord, a godly man will notice you even when you think he is not looking. If you have to "work" to get a guy before seeing your heart than that brother is not spiritually mature yet in my opinion. A godly man, whether shy or not will pursue!
> 
> ...


 
you read my mind, thank you! :Rose:


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## Bunny77 (Feb 25, 2008)

Janice said:


> I believe that most women should be "preparing " rather than "positioning". It should not be up to us to find our husbands. The Lord takes care of that  while we discover our purpose or simply walk in daily obedience to him while trusting (doing his will). Ruth and Esther were doing the Lord's will (accomplishing their purpose). There was never the idea behind the back of their heads of let me get close to this man so I can marry him. Their mates discovered them. Both men were attracted to these ladies because they saw the passion in these two women concerning the things of God.
> 
> I believe that if you want a true godly man, just focus on doing the things of the Lord, a godly man will notice you even when you think he is not looking. If you have to "work" to get a guy before seeing your heart than that brother is not spiritually mature yet in my opinion. A godly man, whether shy or not will pursue!
> 
> ...



Good points... one question though...

Are positioning and preparing mutually exclusive? Can't one do both?


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## chellero (Feb 25, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Well...you gotta lean on your boldness is Christ Ms. Lady Let me preface that though. I'm not talking about "chasing" a man who's no good and shows no interest in you and coming across as deparate. I'm just speaking of being proactive.
> 
> For example if you pray "Lord, I need a breakthough in my finances!" but *you still watch Oprah,* still run up your credit cards, still have the same spending habits, and don't become a better stewart of what you have, then if God doesn't drop manna/ombey from heaven into your lap, don't assume it's "just not God's will" for you to be free from financial bondage. He's wanting to see if you can be trusted with what you have because he knows if he gives you more, it'll ruin you, and a good Daddy doesn't do that to his kids.
> 
> So if you say "Lord send me a husband" but spend 99.9% at home in hermit mode, don't assume that "it's not God's will" for you to be married...you're just hiding and caint be found!



OT - What's wrong with watching Oprah?


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## Bunny77 (Feb 25, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Maybe I think I mean something different. Of course I think Ruth "positioned herself"...and she had the covering and direction of her mother-in-law. But it seems that there are some married women who did some "assertive/aggressive" positioning but portray it like the man did everything....And then these same women want to put down other women who might apply some "unconventional" forms of positioning.
> 
> My GOD, I wish things could have happened the way it happened for my mom or my pastor's wife. All that sounded so easy. I don't think those ways have changed because times have changed, but then again, maybe they have....
> 
> I just know that I've tried a lot of ways... spent some (a lot) of money to "position myself"....Sigh....


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## discobiscuits (Feb 26, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Good points... one question though...
> 
> Are positioning and preparing mutually exclusive? Can't one do both?



*i think one can and should do both. i also think that positioning can be as simple as what gn1g said: step out of your comfort zone. a woman does not have to chase men or put herself "in the way" of men to be seen. i mean take some classes (cooking, motorcycle, creative writing, whatever...). attend church social functions, not just the worship ones. if a group of peers asks you to go out after (work/church/school), then go (as long as what they are doing is in line w/ your beliefs/lifestyle). join a site like meetup and join a group that does activities you like or want to learn (fencing/bowling/hang gliding/knitting/pet care). even something simple like looking presentable when u go to the grocery store, who knows the one may be in line behind you. 

one of my pet peeves is unmarried women in church who are so obviously trying to be seen & get a date w/o looking like they are doing it.

also, my personal opinion is that since i have not seen nor have i heard/read any scripture or minister/preacher/teacher/"prophet/ess" say otherwise, i do not think it incorrect or ungodly or out of "place" for a woman to approach a man. our singles ministry had a "summit" on exactly this topic. the women were like "we want to approach you guys but we feel that it is pastor's/the church's position that it is outside of the scope of what the bible says." the guys were like "we want to approach ya'll but some of ya'll look so mean, anti-social, and unapproachable that we don't wanna be bothered." LOL 

there is no shame in my game as the saying goes. i will approach a man. if we engage in a conversation that leads to exchanging numbers and communicating further then so be it. if not we go our separate ways and i've made a new acquaintance. when i say approach i simply mean the woman initiates contact and that is all. i don't mean throwing lines or asking out on a date or fellowshipping, i simply mean initiate contact and see what happens nothing more. 

back in the "olden days"  women had to have a chaperone and if a young man wanted to meet a young lady he had to go through her "people". i was raised by a mother who grew up in that fashion and i am old fashioned too. i soooo wish the times we live in now were more like back then but since they aren't, we have to adapt. plus seeing some bad choices some folx make, i don't think i'd trust too many ppl in this age to introduce some dude to me when they can't make a good call for themselves.

side note: i chose when i was in jr hi or hs that i would prefer to remain unmarried. i still keep that option open but marriage is not my 1st choice. i use Paul as my example. he chose to remain unmarried and even opined that unmarried is better than being married. he did not teach that, it was just his personal opinion.  
*


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## SEMO (Feb 26, 2008)

Starr1 said:


> I had to "position" myself to be found because my poor husband was so dense in the beginning!It took him MONTHS to realize that I liked him and then he had the nerve to tell me that he would have asked me out sooner if I had only made the fact that I was interested more obvious!
> 
> We met at school (Christian college) and I just knew he was the man for me, so you better believe I made sure to just-so-happen to be at all the same school functions, events, and bible studies that he was. I invited him to sit next to me in chapel, or to go out with a group of friends to a coffee shop, or have lunch me in the courtyard. I wasn't aggressive or desperate or pushy, I didn't go chasing him down, but I was out and about so he couldn't help but see me. I kept it lady like but I made myself known and after a while he took notice. I let him pursue me: the more he knew about me, the more he wanted to know; the more he spent time with me, the more he wanted to spend time with me; and the more he saw that I was a woman of God who eventually wanted a Godly husband, the more he wanted to make sure that *he* was that husband.
> 
> If I had kept to myself and not put myself in a position to be noticed, then I seriously doubt my shy DH would have asked me out of his own accord.


 

I like this story . Men are pursuers, but women can do things to invite a man to pursue them. If a woman only goes to work, church and home, never lingering to chat people up or otherwise be friendly and sociable, a man might see that as off-putting. 

Women don't have to approach men but they should seem approachable. And that's where I think women need to be more realistic about their outward appearance. The Bible mentions many times how beautiful a woman is (ex. Sarah, Ruth, Esther, Rachel, etc), and that beauty often seems to be an integral part of the story. And Song of Solomon explicitly talks about the virtues of a beautiful woman . 

I think everyone in the world agrees that men are visual. And there is nothing wrong with being godly beautiful (which is a _combination_ of inner and outer beauty). I think beauty is only shallow when it's solely outward. On the flip side, a man may never get to your inner beauty if there's no outer beauty that initially catches his eye.

Also, I like Michelle McKinney Hammond (I have several of her books), but despite all the books she writes, of which there are _many_, about relationships and how to get a man to marry you, she herself is still single. I think it would be wise to solicit advice from ladies successfully married, and not just singles.

ETA:
JOJ, we are on the same wavelength about being approachable and presentable .


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## divya (Feb 26, 2008)

nvybeauty said:


> It says he that "findeth" not she that "pursueth"....



Exactly. Thank you!


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## gn1g (Feb 26, 2008)

SEMO said:


> I like this story . Men are pursuers, but women can do things to invite a man to pursue them. If a woman only goes to work, church and home, never lingering to chat people up or otherwise be friendly and sociable, a man might see that as off-putting.
> 
> Women don't have to approach men but they should seem approachable. And that's where I think women need to be more realistic about their outward appearance. The Bible mentions many times how beautiful a woman is (ex. Sarah, Ruth, Esther, Rachel, etc), and that beauty often seems to be an integral part of the story. And Song of Solomon explicitly talks about the virtues of a beautiful woman .
> 
> ...


 

ITA and wondered if Michelle was still single.  

Reading the book of Ruth this morning Ruth did approach BOAZ.  

OT: I also notice that BOAZ was already a husband in that he was protecting and providing for Ruth when he first met her.  Often times I hear my Bishop say she was already a wife when he met her.  

I also like all the advice he gave to RUTH.  The world needs more BOAZs instead of Bozos!


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## shalom (Feb 26, 2008)

Janice said:


> I believe that most women should be "preparing " rather than "positioning". It should not be up to us to find our husbands. The Lord takes care of that while we discover our purpose or simply walk in daily obedience to him while trusting (doing his will). Ruth and Esther were doing the Lord's will (accomplishing their purpose). There was never the idea behind the back of their heads of let me get close to this man so I can marry him. Their mates discovered them. Both men were attracted to these ladies because they saw the passion in these two women concerning the things of God.
> 
> I believe that if you want a true godly man, just focus on doing the things of the Lord, a godly man will notice you even when you think he is not looking. If you have to "work" to get a guy before seeing your heart than that brother is not spiritually mature yet in my opinion. A godly man, whether shy or not will pursue!
> 
> ...


 
You might have something here.

Finish preaching, I'm interested in what you have to say regarding your last paragraph.

Kbragg,  you to funny


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## Bunny77 (Feb 26, 2008)

In reference to Janice's quote and Shalom's comment....

Its hard as single women to not cosume our thoughts on meeting the one but once you release it and truly forget about then that is when it will come. "Unless a grain of wheat fall to the ground and dies, it cannot be made alive." Our desires must die and be surrended so that it can manifest.



shalom said:


> You might have something here.
> 
> Finish preaching, I'm interested in what you have to say regarding your last paragraph.
> 
> Kbragg,  you to funny



My question is... is this scriptural or is this belief a modern one spread in churches that has no Biblical basis? I think we hear comments so much like this in regards to singleness that we take it as scriptural, but I don't know of any Biblical directives that say that a desire for marriage must die so they can manifest...

Yes, we can surrender our requests to God and we should, but the idea that we must forget about our desire for marriage to make it happen is not necessarily one of God.

Here is an excerpt from Candice Watters' new book, "Get Married," in which she takes a Biblical approach to encourage single women to hope and prepare for marriage... 

*... If in the midst of these cultural realities, "just pray and wait" sentiments leave you depressed, I think you'll be encouraged by the message of this book: there's something you can do.

Whether you're wondering if you'll ever get a date, stuck in a "just-friends" relationship or worried that the guy you've been seeing forever will never move toward marriage, this book offers help. It's for all the women who long for marriage but are afraid to admit it; embarrassed by their deepest desires or concerned that maybe they want it too much. It's for the parents of single women who wonder if there's anything they can do. And it's for married friends of singles who want to help but don't want to intrude.

This is not another book about seeking fulfillment in your singleness. As beings created in God's image; we were designed for relationship — that's why extended singleness leaves so many women discontent. It's also why we should be intentional about finding fulfillment in marriage. Getting married isn't just something that's "nice if it happens." It's what most of us are called to pursue.

Pursue, but not dominate. I'm not advocating getting married at all costs. But marrying well, for God's glory, is a worthy pursuit. There's a difference between making it happen and helping it happen. I'm not going to parrot the "girl-power," feminist worldview. Men have a key role to play. And how the single women they know relate to them has everything to do with their momentum toward marriage. This isn't a book about desperation or the hyper activity of joining every dating service and singles group. You won't find a list of 100 tips for meeting a hot man or five things you can do today to help you get married tomorrow.

What you will find is a way to live like you're planning to marry. Not just having a hope chest — but cultivating a lifestyle that is consistent with the season of marriage ahead. A life that's in harmony with God's work on your behalf. A life that nurtures men and the community around you to play their role so that you don't have to carry it all. Finally, you'll find in the context of this marriage-minded lifestyle a new confidence to pray like you never have — trusting that marriage is a goal within your grasp. You can risk hoping that you will get married. You really can help it happen.*


----------



## MissNatural (Feb 26, 2008)

gn1g said:


> ITA and wondered if Michelle was still single.
> 
> Reading the book of Ruth this morning Ruth did approach BOAZ.
> 
> ...


----------



## envybeauty (Feb 26, 2008)

gn1g said:


> ITA and wondered if Michelle was still single.
> 
> Reading the book of Ruth this morning Ruth did approach BOAZ.
> 
> ...




Good point! I heard on the radio tonight a preacher talking about this very thing. He pointed out that the scripture says "he who finds a WIFE (not he who finds a woman) finds a good thing" -- as in not every woman is a good thing for a man. The pastor was addressing men because he believes men just go looking for a woman (or two ) instead of looking for a wife.

Ruth was a wife and not just a woman.


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## shalom (Feb 27, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> In reference to Janice's quote and Shalom's comment....
> 
> Its hard as single women to not cosume our thoughts on meeting the one but once you release it and truly forget about then that is when it will come. "Unless a grain of wheat fall to the ground and dies, it cannot be made alive." Our desires must die and be surrended so that it can manifest.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Bunny77,

For me the word "surrender" means to let go, give it up and yes, forget.  I can't speak for anyone else, but when I leave a situation in God's hand I forget about it, why should I worry or concern myself with something God is in control of. God said he would give us the desires of our heart, because I forget it that doesn't mean the desire is gone.  I believe God will bless based on the desires of the heart.  I hope that brings more clarity to my comment.


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## Janice (Feb 27, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Good points... one question though...
> 
> Are positioning and preparing mutually exclusive? Can't one do both?



No, "preparing" and "positioning" are very different. As women, if we want to be wives then we should be a wife in spirit first. In God's economy, in order for something to manifest in the physical realm we must first possess it in the spirit (supernatural realm). Do you want a husband, then believe God will bless you with one according to his timing and leave it there. And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”
Matthew 21:21. Fall back and let God do the rest! 

Ladies, what God has for us is for us! Gifts are unmerited, you don't have to "work" for any gift that God has for you,...... just simply believe. Only doubt and sin can delay marriage in your life if that is God's will for you.

Most ladies I have observed in real life that want a husband are putting themselves in the guys way,calling him, dressing to attract, joining the same ministry as him, etc to get close to him (this is what I mean by positioning) when they should be using that same energy into learning how to cook and change a diaper, and most importantly grow spirtually. If God has marriage in his will for you it will happen! 

This may be viewed as being "proactive" and not "positioning " per say but if the motive in doing these things is to "increase" your chances of getting a husband then you have a lot of work in store for you. Ruth and Esther were "proactive" in being out and about but their first and foremost thought was to please God. They were not double-minded as to why they did things, and hence God rewarded them with "the desires of their heart". Be proactive and dress attractively with only one person in mind...your heavenly Father, nothing more, nothing less. Everything else will come when its suppose to!


Best to be prepared for something than getting it when you are not ready for it! Quite frankly, I don't know alot of young women that can cook these days or possess most attrributes that a wife would need in order to be the helpmate to their spouses that God has called them to be. And you know what if you don't ever get a husband, well at least you can throw down in the kitchen!

Now I know that superwoman does not exist, but at least have the basics covered and then talk about being ready to get married. Marriage is just not about sex and romance but a ministry in itself. Learn how to pray so that you can cover that man when the enemy tries to come in like a flood and attack him. He will be faced with many pressures as the leader of your household, and at those times it won't be the sex that is going to get him through those tough times (might take his mind off of things, lol) but a praying wife will help him to stand when he is at his lowest!



P.S. The latter part of this post is not directed at anyone specifically,.... merely just observations that I have noticed in real life.


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## nychaelasymone (Feb 27, 2008)

good word!!! thanks for posting this



Janice said:


> No, "preparing" and "positioning" are very different. As women, if we want to be wives then we should be a wife in spirit first. In God's economy, in order for something to manifest in the physical realm we must first possess it in the spirit (supernatural realm). Do you want a husband, then believe God will bless you with one according to his timing and leave it there. And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”
> Matthew 21:21. Fall back and let God do the rest!
> 
> Ladies, what God has for us is for us! Gifts are unmerited, you don't have to "work" for any gift that God has for you,...... just simply believe. Only doubt and sin can delay marriage in your life if that is God's will for you.
> ...


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## Janice (Feb 27, 2008)

SEMO said:


> Also, I like Michelle McKinney Hammond (I have several of her books), but despite all the books she writes, of which there are _many_, about relationships and how to get a man to marry you, she herself is still single. I think it would be wise to solicit advice from ladies successfully married, and not just singles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Janice (Feb 27, 2008)

shalom said:


> Hi Bunny77,
> 
> For me the word "surrender" means to let go, give it up and yes, forget.  I can't speak for anyone else, but when I leave a situation in God's hand I forget about it, why should I worry or concern myself with something God is in control of. God said he would give us the desires of our heart, because I forget it that doesn't mean the desire is gone.  I believe God will bless based on the desires of the heart.  I hope that brings more clarity to my comment.



Co-Signing, sometimes our desires can overwhelm, worry and even preoccupy our thoughts that they become an IDOl for us and thus our God. Everything we do and how we act is dictated by this IDOL that we have not control over. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be married and I would be a big liar if I said I did not want to get married. But it is important to not let this thing control us and dictate us as to what ministries to join, how to dress, have an impressive personality to attract potential future spouse, etc. Just be yourself. God loves change (good change) but with him in mind. He is a jealous God that will not share you with other Gods.


Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Phillipians 4:6-7


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## Janice (Feb 27, 2008)

shalom said:


> You might have something here.
> 
> Finish preaching, I'm interested in what you have to say regarding your last paragraph.
> 
> Kbragg,  you to funny




Hey Kbragg, I was going to just basically stress that there are many factors as to why less marriages are taking place among christians such as high female to low male ratio in the church, people taking longer to get established in their careers thus not being ready for marriage, down-low men, lack of spirtual maturity, sin, etc. Well with that said, that leaves just about 0.01% of men in this world that are ready to get married, lol (j/k)

Hmmmmmm if you ask me, looks like the odds are more favorable with God.I know that he has the best for all of us though who wait and trust upon the Lord! Its hard waiting but I know it will be so worth it!


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## Browndilocks (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm sorry but 54 years old and single only says one thing to me:  it's her.


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## gn1g (Feb 27, 2008)

Browndilocks said:


> I'm sorry but 54 years old and single only says one thing to me: it's her.


 
I think so too.  

Actually she thinks the man for her is Bishop Noel Jones, theres at least a 1000 other women that think the same thing.


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## Browndilocks (Feb 27, 2008)

gn1g said:


> I think so too.
> 
> Actually she thinks the man for her is Bishop Noel Jones, theres at least a 1000 other women that think the same thing.




AWWWW DANGITT!!! 

 She's going to have to get through his real woman first. He does have a woman and she ain't 54. Yall ain't know?  It could be just a local known thing but I'm not saying anything more than that.


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## Janice (Feb 27, 2008)

Browndilocks said:


> I'm sorry but 54 years old and single only says one thing to me:  it's her.



Lol,  Well God can only lead you to the water...


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## PaperClip (Feb 27, 2008)

gn1g said:


> Actually she thinks the man for her is Bishop Noel Jones, theres at least a 1000 other women that think the same thing.


 
Bwahahahaahah!!!!!!!!!

Ok seriously.... a LONGTIME fellow church sister of mine USED to believe this as well....and my church sisterfriend has a DIRECT CONTACT to him so um... your 50-something sisterfriend should EXPAND her horizons...my sisterfriend already has....


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## chicacanella (Feb 27, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> I think she needs to do more than what she's doing now if she wants a husband, and it doesn't mean she has to be aggressive.
> 
> To me, being aggressive involves pursuing a man, and I disagree with that. However, if she wants to be "found," she needs to put herself in more places in which she can be found! Expand her comfort zones and social circles so she can be exposed to more men who might be "hunting."
> 
> ...


 

I agree totally with you.


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## OhmyKimB (Feb 27, 2008)

NVM...I read the rest of the thread now


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## Bunny77 (Feb 27, 2008)

shalom said:


> Hi Bunny77,
> 
> For me the word "surrender" means to let go, give it up and yes, forget.  I can't speak for anyone else, but when I leave a situation in God's hand I forget about it, why should I worry or concern myself with something God is in control of. God said he would give us the desires of our heart, because I forget it that doesn't mean the desire is gone.  I believe God will bless based on the desires of the heart.  I hope that brings more clarity to my comment.



I love this topic, if you haven't noticed.  

I like what you've said here... and I agree with your idea of surrender. For me, I won't "forget" my desires -- as that's just not natural for me to do, but I won't stress about them.

I'll just have faith that God knows the desires of my heart and that He'll work to fulfill them. And I'll no longer worry!  

So yes, I agree with you!


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## Bunny77 (Feb 27, 2008)

Janice said:


> No, "preparing" and "positioning" are very different. As women, if we want to be wives then we should be a wife in spirit first. In God's economy, in order for something to manifest in the physical realm we must first possess it in the spirit (supernatural realm). Do you want a husband, then believe God will bless you with one according to his timing and leave it there. And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”
> Matthew 21:21. Fall back and let God do the rest!
> 
> Ladies, what God has for us is for us! Gifts are unmerited, you don't have to "work" for any gift that God has for you,...... just simply believe. Only doubt and sin can delay marriage in your life if that is God's will for you.
> ...



Hi Janice!

Thanks for explaining. I think we agree on a number of things, and differ on some, but it's all good.  

Here are my thoughts. 

I COMPLETELY agree with your first two paragraphs! No debate there!

In terms of positioning... I am also in agreement that women waste too much time calling a man and "chasing" -- I don't recommend that at all. As for joining his ministry, wouldn't do that either unless it is something that truly interests you and that you'd do anyway, not just for a man. 

Dressing to attract... well it depends. I don't see a problem in emphasizing one's physical beauty, as long as it's not done to provoke lust. In other words, a little makeup is fine, a cleavage-exposing dress... not! 

My point of disagreement is the question of whether God has marriage in His will for us. I think that his basic design for his people means that marriage is in His will for ALL of us (unless one is specifically called to celibate service). Now, not all of us will get married because we live in a sinful world, etc., etc., but I think that too many women waste time and energy wondering if marriage is God's will for us when it most certainly is! 

So yes, we should be preparing to be wives because that is God's will... and like you said, sin and doubt are the things that get in the way of something that we are willed to have and should desire!


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## OhmyKimB (Feb 27, 2008)

Janice said:


> No, "preparing" and "positioning" are very different. As women, if we want to be wives then we should be a wife in spirit first. In God's economy, in order for something to manifest in the physical realm we must first possess it in the spirit (supernatural realm). Do you want a husband, then believe God will bless you with one according to his timing and leave it there. And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”
> Matthew 21:21. Fall back and let God do the rest!
> 
> Ladies, what God has for us is for us! Gifts are unmerited, you don't have to "work" for any gift that God has for you,...... just simply believe. Only doubt and sin can delay marriage in your life if that is God's will for you.
> ...


 

What are traits a wife should have??


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## Bunny77 (Feb 28, 2008)

Janice said:


> SEMO said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I like Michelle McKinney Hammond (I have several of her books), but despite all the books she writes, of which there are _many_, about relationships and how to get a man to marry you, she herself is still single. I think it would be wise to solicit advice from ladies successfully married, and not just singles.
> ...


----------



## Bunny77 (Feb 28, 2008)

Janice said:


> I believe that statement God helps those who help themselves is the biggest lie to permeate the church. When we start helping ourselves we rely in our own ways (sin = not trusting), independent of God and sadly reap many unfortunate consequences in the process.  If God needs our help in achieving somthing that he can only do through us, then he will let us know.We just need to have the intimate relashionship with him to know when it is him guiding us and not our own will/flesh. Patience is indeed a virtue!



Hmmm...

Here's the thing though. I see what you're saying, but when it comes to marriage throughout history (including Biblical history), there were always people who worked to make marriage happen for the young people in their families and communities.

It was never "only" God doing the work and folks being patient. Parents worked to bring couples together, as did churches. In some cultures, communities have matchmakers specifically designed for this purpose (it's a Jewish tradition, for example).

The concept that we cannot help ourselves and others to marry well is a modern one, and something I also consider a lie permeating the church. The marriage process has been one that's INTERdependent with God... if a community recognizes that it IS God's will for people to marry and raise children, then they are working for God's glory by ensuring that quality marriages take place.

We don't have that today. Churches are telling us (usually women only) how to prepare for marriage, but they aren't guiding us toward it because then it's seen as usurping God's will.

All the while, we're perhaps missing out on a blessing in our lives because somehow we've super-spiritualized singleness...  

I'm gonna sign off now, but I'll throw out another excerpt from one of my favorite author on this topic, Candice Watters, in which she addressed this issue in an interview. 

http://www.citizenlink.org/CLtopstories/A000006484.cfm

*4. Many Christian women have been taught to just sit back and trust God to bring the right person. Tell me what you think about that statement.

There was a time in our culture when women got married without much effort. Our social structures, as well as expectations, moved young people to early marriage. That is no longer the case. Now, few, if any, expectations to marry remain — and that’s especially harmful for men — and the social supports that used to help people marry, now keep them single. 

Yes, singles must trust God, now more than ever. But “waiting on God” is not a passive exercise. Exodus 14:13-16 is a good example of the way God calls us to be active participants in the work He does on our behalf. Getting married is no different.

5. What steps can single women take so they won't be alone for Valentine's Days to come?

The best relationship singles can pursue now is with a mentor — an older Christian who is married well. In our post-marriage culture, singles need a network. It’s essential to have the prayer and practical support of believers who are further along in life. 

It’s far easier, and less awkward, to seek the advice of peers. But older women, and couples, have a lot more to offer. Mentors are key to moving from what’s probable — 85 percent of singles eventually marry — to what’s possible — marrying well for our good and God’s glory (and in a timely manner). Mentors can be helpful allies with insights, advice, open doors and even introductions.*

My favorite thing about her? She did exactly what she mentioned above and through these efforts, she married well. THAT'S a message that inspires me about my future marriage and gives me greater faith in God about what He has in store... not someone advising me how to maximize my single life! (Hammond)


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## shalom (Feb 28, 2008)

Janice said:


> No, "preparing" and "positioning" are very different. As women, if we want to be wives then we should be a wife in spirit first. In God's economy, in order for something to manifest in the physical realm we must first possess it in the spirit (supernatural realm). Do you want a husband, then believe God will bless you with one according to his timing and leave it there. And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”
> Matthew 21:21. Fall back and let God do the rest!
> 
> Ladies, what God has for us is for us! Gifts are unmerited, you don't have to "work" for any gift that God has for you,...... just simply believe. Only doubt and sin can delay marriage in your life if that is God's will for you.
> ...


 
I'm have been guilty of the bolded.  I should be ashamed to say that, but it's true.  

Ms. Janice: What if you just can't cook.  I'm tnot alking don't cook and not liking to cook, but I'm talking about cooking and the taste is horrible, you can't even stand to eat it.  Now, I can provide a healthful meal for him to eat, but it won't be one I cooked. I'm pretty efficient in all other areas of taking care of the home cept that.  I even have him covered in prayer.


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## shalom (Feb 28, 2008)

Janice said:


> SEMO said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I like Michelle McKinney Hammond (I have several of her books), but despite all the books she writes, of which there are _many_, about relationships and how to get a man to marry you, she herself is still single. I think it would be wise to solicit advice from ladies successfully married, and not just singles.
> ...


----------



## SEMO (Feb 28, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Janice said:
> 
> 
> > Okay... I have a few thoughts on this entire post... let me see if I get them out correctly.
> ...


----------



## SEMO (Feb 28, 2008)

So far the books she written on the subject include:
 


How to Avoid the 10 Mistakes Single Women Make




Secrets of an Irresistible Woman: Smart Rules for Capturing His Heart




What to Do Until Love Finds You: The Bestselling Guide to Preparing Yourself for Your Perfect Mate (Hammond, Michelle Mckinney)




101 Ways to Get and Keep His Attention




The Unspoken Rules of Love: What Women Don't Know and Men Don't Tell You (Hammond, Michelle Mckinney) 




Ending The Search For Mr. Right: How to Be Found by the Man You've Been Looking For




How to Make Love Work: The Guide to Getting It, Keeping It, and Fixing What's Broken (Faithwords) 




The Real Deal on Overcoming Heartache: Learning to Live and Love Again 




In Search of the Proverbs 31 Man: The One God Approves and a Woman Wants 




A Sassy Girl's Guide to Loving God: Discovering the Ultimate Relationship 




Get a Love Life      by Michelle McKinney Hammond




If Men Are Like Buses, Then How Do I Catch One?: When You're Standing Between Hope and Happily Ever After      by Michelle Mckinney Hammond       




Lessons from a Girl's Best Friend: What My Dog Taught Me About Life, Love, and God      by Michelle McKinney Hammond       (Paperback - Sep 1, 2008)

[_I find this one especially sad.  Her husband isn't her bestfriend (b/c she doesn't have a husband) so now her dog is.  We're supposed to chase after this?!_]




His Love Always Finds Me      by Michelle McKinney Hammond       




Intimate Thoughts Whispered Prayers: Meditations for the Single Heart (Matters of the Heart)      by Michelle McKinney Hammond       




What Becomes of the Brokenhearted: The Path Toward Healing and Hope      by Michelle McKinney Hammond




Sassy, Single, and Satisfied: Secrets to Loving the Life You're Living      by Michelle McKinney Hammond




If Singleness Is a Gift, What's the Return Policy?      by Holly Virden and Michelle McKinney Hammond       




The Sassy Girl's Checklist for Living, Loving, and Overcoming      by Michelle McKinney Hammond       


She's written other books (most of which at some point mention her "stay single and satisfied message) but these are the ones directly related to dating and singleness. I don't know about you, but *an author writing this many books on singleness seems to just be exploiting people's pain rather than bringing true healing.*


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## shalom (Feb 28, 2008)

Janice said:


> Co-Signing, sometimes our desires can overwhelm, worry and even preoccupy our thoughts that they become an IDOl for us and thus our God. Everything we do and how we act is dictated by this IDOL that we have not control over. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be married and I would be a big liar if I said I did not want to get married. But it is important to not let this thing control us and dictate us as to what ministries to join, how to dress, have an impressive personality to attract potential future spouse, etc. Just be yourself. God loves change (good change) but with him in mind. He is a jealous God that will not share you with other Gods.
> 
> 
> *Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Phillipians 4:6-7*


 

AMEN.

Good writing.  Unfortunately for me I went through a period in my life where I was ready to get married and I had made up my mind that it was going to happen like right now.  Well, happened was I got me some (idols/mens) things went bad I'm mean nothing worked out. I have sinced  learned from my sins and am bow towards GOD.


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## shalom (Feb 28, 2008)

gn1g said:


> I think so too.
> 
> *Actually she thinks the man for her is Bishop Noel Jones*, theres at least a 1000 other women that think the same thing.


 

 That's my pastor and I laugh all the time when I hear women saying that's their husband.  He alright, but not all that?  I think pastor is going to marry a young women.


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## SEMO (Feb 28, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> Here's the thing though. I see what you're saying, but when it comes to marriage throughout history (including Biblical history), there were always people who worked to make marriage happen for the young people in their families and communities.
> 
> ...



I agree with your whole post .  I want to hear about marriage from someone who is successfully married (just getting married doesn't make you an expert), not someone who's just written 10,000 books on how to stay single and happy.


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## shalom (Feb 28, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> I love this topic, if you haven't noticed.
> 
> I like what you've said here... and I agree with your idea of surrender. *For me, I won't "forget" my desires *-- as that's just not natural for me to do, but I won't stress about them.
> 
> ...


 
I totally understand this.  I thought I never could too, I was not going to take the chance that God was going to forget about me, but I find nowadays I'm only really concerned about it when I read heartbreaking post of the young ladies who want marriage.  

I'm glad to hear this.


----------



## shalom (Feb 28, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> Here's the thing though. I see what you're saying, but when it comes to marriage throughout history (including Biblical history), there were always people who worked to make marriage happen for the young people in their families and communities.
> 
> ...


 
Bunny77, I liked reading the excerpt.  

at the bolded.  Not sure if that's her intentions.  

Duly noted: You are not playing when it comes to marriage.


----------



## SEMO (Feb 28, 2008)

One more thing:

Even though Michelle McKinney Hammond is just one person I think she does represent what can happen for people who get trapped in that same mindset (singleness is equal too and just as great as marriage, if not better).

People talk about not knowing singles who positioned themselves to be seen having things work out (though there have been examples in this very thread--biblical and modern day).  But I have seen *many examples* of women who don't think they have any part to play in their getting married still single WELL past when they thought they would be (or want to be, if they're honest) who eventually decide that it must not have been God's will for them to get married.

You can believe and have faith that God will bless you with the job of your dreams (stay at home ironing your best suits, practicing your typing skills, giving yourself pep talks in the mirror, etc.) but if you never get out of the house to go to job fairs, seek interviews with potential companies or put your resume online, how likely does it seem that your dream job will call you up at home and offer you a position?  

This is not a perfect analogy at all, but the point is that God talks a lot in the Bible about faith and works (faith without works is dead) and how the faith of the past saints was proved to God by the _actions_ they took (ex. Abraham was about to offer his son up; Rahab took in those Israelite spies).  God also says that without faith it is impossible to please Him because those that come to him must believe that He is and that _He's a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him_. (Hebrews 11)

Jesus also gave the parable of the unjust judge that granted a woman's request for justice solely based on her diligence in coming to him about the matter.  Jesus pointed out that, if the unjust judge would grant requests based on diligence how much more would God grant requests to those who come to Him? 

Matthew 7: 7-11
 7"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.


   8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


   9"Or what man is there among you whom, if his son ask for bread, will give him a stone?


   10Or if he ask for a fish, will give him a serpent?


   11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father who is in Heaven give good things to them that ask Him?

_God is not in the business of bait and switch (you earnestly desire marriage, but He gives you life-long singleness (a stone) instead)._


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## Ramya (Feb 28, 2008)

Hmmm I think one of the problems is that men and women try to "skip" or "glide through" "wait out" the single season. I honestly believe that at least half of the men and women who are wanting to be married should not even be in the market. The single season is not meant to be a miserable lonely experience. It's a proactive time! It's the time of knowing your purpose/vision, building relationships (GOD, work, friends, community, family, fellowshipping ect.), working on yourself (getting rid of baggage and becoming the person you are called to be) and then learning to be a wife or a husband. Every man is not a husband and every woman is not a wife (even at 54). No offense to anyone but people see baggage and lonliness and desperation and FLEE in the other direction. There is nothing wrong with wanting a husband/wife but we have to be ready to receive our mate. If you are at home waiting for a man to just show up on your doorstep then more power to you. Shoot if a strange man comes to my door talking about "your going to be my wife", I'm calling 911. I'm just saying get out there and live life! He will find you when you least expect it. But you got to be doing _something_ in order for him to even notice you. I mean do you even look approachable? Are you friendly, helpful noticable? This are things that we need to be aware of.

God has shown me my husband but has also told me what I got to do in order to "position" myself.  As for me, I got a man and His name is Jesus . My future DH can't even compare.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 28, 2008)

shalom said:


> Bunny77, I liked reading the excerpt.
> 
> at the bolded.  Not sure if that's her intentions.
> 
> *Duly noted: You are not playing when it comes to marriage.*



 at this part... I guess the reason I am so passionate is because I found that focusing on being single and wondering if marriage was God's will actually made me make WORSE decisions when it came to my dating life (so maybe the opposite of you, perhaps).

I'd been given the message from family (who were influenced by the church) that we didn't know if it was God's will for me or anyone to be married, so just enjoy being single and not worry. Okay, fine... however, I noticed that not thinking about marriage made me pick the wrong types of men to date... I'd date men who'd say STRAIGHT UP that they weren't ready for anything serious and weren't looking for relationships and I'd think, "Oh, that's fine... we can be friends while I continue to wait for God to send me my husband, blah blah blah."

Meanwhile, I'd find myself getting more emotionally attached to these "friends" (and no, we weren't sleeping together), and then going through all the rigamarole about why things never worked out for me with men, which made me more convinced that perhaps I wasn't meant to be married and should just focus on living this great single life, etc., etc.

Finally, when I discovered a different approach, I started to make better decisions! I cut off all the "friends," because they got in the way of me being emotionally open to my future husband. If I hear a man today saying he's not ready for anything serious, he doesn't get a chance at all. It's like, okay bye!!!

So I'm actually dating and "positioning" myself LESS now that I believe in the message that marriage is God's will for me, but when I do make such moves, it's with the feeling that I'm doing so with a quality man who is looking for a wife... because he's already made those intentions known!

I truly believe that if you live your life with the sense that your single season could last a LONG time, you act accordingly. If you live as if you are going to fulfill God's will for you to be married, then you also act accordingly... but yes, the key is that you cannot chase or pursue, but at the same time, don't put up personal roadblocks to becoming a wife in the name of so-called spirituality!

(And yes, perhaps I am misinterpreting Hammond's intentions, but as SEMO says, I always feel that the underlying theme of her works are more about singleness than marriage!)


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## Bunny77 (Feb 28, 2008)

SEMO said:


> One more thing:
> 
> Even though Michelle McKinney Hammond is just one person I think she does represent what can happen for people who get trapped in that same mindset (singleness is equal too and just as great as marriage, if not better).
> 
> People talk about not knowing singles who positioned themselves to be seen having things work out (though there have been examples in this very thread--biblical and modern day).  But I have seen *many examples* of women who don't think they have any part to play in their getting married still single WELL past when they thought they would be (or want to be, if they're honest) who eventually decide that it must not have been God's will for them to get married.



And that's exactly the woman that I was becoming!!!! 




> This is not a perfect analogy at all, but the point is that God talks a lot in the Bible about faith and works (faith without works is dead) and how the faith of the past saints was proved to God by the _actions_ they took (ex. Abraham was about to offer his son up; Rahab took in those Israelite spies).  God also says that without faith it is impossible to please Him because those that come to him must believe that He is and that _He's a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him_. (Hebrews 11)
> 
> Jesus also gave the parable of the unjust judge that granted a woman's request for justice solely based on her diligence in coming to him about the matter.  Jesus pointed out that, if the unjust judge would grant requests based on diligence how much more would God grant requests to those who come to Him?
> 
> ...



Once again, we are >>>here<<<.  

Noting the scriptures that you mentioned and even the job analogy, we aren't afraid to suggest faith and works and eager petitioning of the Lord, but when it comes to marriage, suddenly, there's concern about how we might be making it an idol or how we shouldn't be "seeking," etc.

And truth be told, at least when it comes to the black community, I wonder how much of this is really a response to the declining numbers of black men in the church or black men who are choosing to get married... how much of this singleness message is a modern response to a unique condition facing black women and not Biblically based? Would we be hearing this singleness message so much if there wasn't a marriage crisis in our community? 

I do like Michelle McKinney Hammond, I think she's helped many people and I think her message is all well and good, but like you mentioned... that's a LOT of books with the same underlying message!


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## Bunny77 (Feb 28, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Hmmm I think one of the problems is that men and women try to "skip" or "glide through" "wait out" the single season. I honestly believe that at least half of the men and women who are wanting to be married should not even be in the market. The single season is not meant to be a miserable lonely experience. It's a proactive time! It's the time of knowing your purpose/vision, building relationships (GOD, work, friends, community, family, fellowshipping ect.), working on yourself (getting rid of baggage and becoming the person you are called to be) and then learning to be a wife or a husband. Every man is not a husband and every woman is not a wife (even at 54). No offense to anyone but people see baggage and lonliness and desperation and FLEE in the other direction. There is nothing wrong with wanting a husband/wife but we have to be ready to receive our mate. If you are at home waiting for a man to just show up on your doorstep then more power to you. Shoot if a strange man comes to my door talking about "your going to be my wife", I'm calling 911. I'm just saying get out there and live life! He will find you when you least expect it. But you got to be doing _something_ in order for him to even notice you. I mean do you even look approachable? Are you friendly, helpful noticable? This are things that we need to be aware of.
> 
> God has shown me my husband but has also told me what I got to do in order to "position" myself.  As for me, I got a man and His name is Jesus . My future DH can't even compare.



Okay...  

I do think there are too many women who spend every. single. day. while they're single moaning and groaning about not having a man. There are women who jump from long-term relationship to long-term relationship because they have to have a man and are scared of being alone. They never truly learn about themselves and build relationships with God because of this.

However, there are plenty of women who are indeed maximizing their lives and their single season, but are rightfully concerned that their single season is lasting TOO long. God has put the desire for marriage and children in our hearts and women should be thinking at a certain point about when that's going to happen if it hasn't yet, and if there's something that they're doing to prevent it from taking place (i.e. bad decisions, etc.)

Again, this idea of an extended single season is a very modern one, yet we are trying to use Biblical justifications for it. The few people in the Bible to have extended single seasons were folks like Paul, Jeremiah, Jesus, Elijah and other prophets (well, Jesus wasn't a prophet, but you know) who were doing some SERIOUS work for the Lord that 99.9999999% of us aren't doing today -- and are not called to do!

God is not sending any messages saying that you must do this, that and the third in order to prepare for message and that you must build all these other relationships before you are "ready." Again, these are modern concepts that have been developed to respond to modern issues.

When you learn to drive, you can read books about driving, take driver's ed, drive on that little course at driver's ed school and go on the road with the instructor who has a control brake... but you are never going to become a good driver unless you get out there and DRIVE! It will be a learning process and one of trial and error, but you have to do it...

I see marriage the same way. Yes, you should prepare beforehand, but there is NO WAY that people will be truly prepared for it and will know what to do until they are IN IT. All this talk of improving self, self, self, does nothing since marriage is going to be a partnership and some things can't be done until you are actually with someone!

Finally... yeah, I know I'm long... I also think the "You'll find someone when you least expect it," line can also be damaging. I know that has happened for many women. There are also many women who had help in getting to marriage.

My problem with that cliche is that it takes personal responsibility out of the equation and treats God as a genie of sorts... that God will just suddenly drop a brotha from the sky when you reach this magical point of "readiness" and therefore, there's nothing that you should do in the meantime because it will "just happen." 

I think that message can be discouraging for women who are rightfully wondering when marriage will take place and are told that they should do nothing but prepare and pray.

It's NOT working for a large portion of women in our community, I'll tell you what. 

Okay, I'm shutting up now!


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## Ramya (Feb 28, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> *I see marriage the same way. Yes, you should prepare beforehand, but there is NO WAY that people will be truly prepared for it and will know what to do until they are IN IT. All this talk of improving self, self, self, does nothing since marriage is going to be a partnership and some things can't be done until you are actually with someone!*
> 
> Finally... yeah, I know I'm long... I also think the "You'll find someone when you least expect it," line can also be damaging. I know that has happened for many women. There are also many women who had help in getting to marriage.
> 
> ...


 
Oh I'm not saying that at all but people need to be whole first. Marriage comes with its own set of issues and if you have personal issues as well it can be a lot more difficult. Things like paranoia, insecurities, unecessary baggage can cause things to fail miserably. I'm saying if a person has a trail of broken relationships it's time to look at oneself and see what one's part in the failure of the relationship was. A relationship takes 2 people to work and to fail (in most situations).

I don't believe that God intends for our single season to be extended unless He told you that. It is in His will for us to be married. And no God won't necessarily wait until one is "ready" but for example if the man is ready and you are with "mr. right now" and all caught up in that mess, it's not that God don't want you to be married but you aren't doing what you are supposed to be doing in order to receive your husband. That's what I mean by positioning yourself. I think people miss their husbands and wives when they try and take things into their own hands or do things to fill time.


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## Browndilocks (Feb 28, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Janice said:
> 
> 
> > Okay... I have a few thoughts on this entire post... let me see if I get them out correctly.
> ...


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## SEMO (Feb 28, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Oh I'm not saying that at all but people need to be whole first. Marriage comes with its own set of issues and if you have personal issues as well it can be a lot more difficult. Things like paranoia, insecurities, unecessary baggage can cause things to fail miserably. I'm saying if a person has a trail of broken relationships it's time to look at oneself and see what one's part in the failure of the relationship was. A relationship takes 2 people to work and to fail (in most situations).
> 
> I don't believe that God intends for our single season to be extended unless He told you that. It is in His will for us to be married. *And no God won't necessarily wait until one is "ready" but for example if the man is ready and you are with "mr. right now" and all caught up in that mess, it's not that God don't want you to be married but you aren't doing what you are supposed to be doing in order to receive your husband.* That's what I mean by positioning yourself. *I think people miss their husbands and wives *when they try and take things into their own hands or do things to fill time.



I understand what you're saying now.  And I agree that people need to let go of baggage and issues and not expect that marriage will cure all their ills.  But in reference to the bolded, I'm not sure I believe that God has one specific person in mind for a person to marry.  Please don't think I'm picking on your post, I'm truly not .

I just think that the idea that there is one soul mate for a person can lead to discontent and questioning later on down the line.  When serious trials come in the marriage they may be tempted to think that they made a mistake and didn't really marry "the one" and now they should get a divorce so they can meet their _real_ "Mr. Right", instead of working on their marriage.  

I think it's one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high (even in the church).  People get married then meet someone they also could have been compatible with and possibly married (had they been single) and it throws them for a loop.  They then start think that this other person is their one true soul mate.


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## Ramya (Feb 28, 2008)

SEMO said:


> I understand what you're saying now. And I agree that people need to let go of baggage and issues and not expect that marriage will cure all their ills. But in reference to the bolded, I'm not sure I believe that God has one specific person in mind for a person to marry. Please don't think I'm picking on your post, I'm truly not .
> 
> I just think that the idea that there is one soul mate for a person can lead to discontent and questioning later on down the line. When serious trials come in the marriage they may be tempted to think that they made a mistake and didn't really marry "the one" and now they should get a divorce so they can meet their _real_ "Mr. Right", instead of working on their marriage.
> 
> I think it's one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high (even in the church). People get married then meet someone they also could have been compatible with and possibly married (had they been single) and it throws them for a loop. They then start think that this other person is their one true soul mate.


 
I totally agree with you! I also don't believe in soul mates but I do believe in seeking God in all of our relationships whether it be friendship or husbands. When I say Mr. Right Now, I mean dating someone who you know is not someone you could marry, or continuing to be with someone who God has told you to leave alone or even being with someone who has said that they don't want to be married. If you are looking for a husband it don't make sense to be with someone who is just looking for a live in girlfriend. 

sidebar: I got to stop assuming that people know what i'm talking about and express myself more clearly.


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## SEMO (Feb 28, 2008)

amerikan said:


> I totally agree with you! I also don't believe in soul mates but I do believe in seeking God in all of our relationships whether it be friendship or husbands. When I say Mr. Right Now, I mean dating someone who you know is not someone you could marry, or continuing to be with someone who God has told you to leave alone or even being with someone who has said that they don't want to be married. If you are looking for a husband it don't make sense to be with someone who is just looking for a live in girlfriend.
> 
> * sidebar: I got to stop assuming that people know what i'm talking about and express myself more clearly. *




Okay, I see we too are >>>here<<< .  As to the bolded, me too .  Sometimes I know what I'm trying to say, I just have to be sure it comes out like I mean it too .


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## gn1g (Feb 28, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Hmmm I think one of the problems is that men and women try to "skip" or "glide through" "wait out" the single season. I honestly believe that at least half of the men and women who are wanting to be married should not even be in the market. The single season is not meant to be a miserable lonely experience. It's a proactive time! It's the time of knowing your purpose/vision, building relationships (GOD, work, friends, community, family, fellowshipping ect.), working on yourself (getting rid of baggage and becoming the person you are called to be) and then learning to be a wife or a husband. Every man is not a husband and every woman is not a wife (even at 54). *No offense to anyone but people see baggage and lonliness and desperation and FLEE in the other direction.* There is nothing wrong with wanting a husband/wife but we have to be ready to receive our mate. If you are at home waiting for a man to just show up on your doorstep then more power to you. Shoot if a strange man comes to my door talking about "your going to be my wife", I'm calling 911. I'm just saying get out there and live life! He will find you when you least expect it. But you got to be doing _something_ in order for him to even notice you. I mean do you even look approachable? Are you friendly, helpful noticable? This are things that we need to be aware of.
> 
> *God has shown me my husband* but has also told me what I got to do in order to "position" myself.  As for me, I got a man and His name is Jesus . My future DH can't even compare.


 
I agree with the bolded and please eloborate on the red.


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## chinadoll (Feb 28, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Okay...
> 
> I do think there are too many women who spend every. single. day. while they're single moaning and groaning about not having a man. There are women who jump from long-term relationship to long-term relationship because they have to have a man and are scared of being alone. They never truly learn about themselves and build relationships with God because of this.
> 
> ...


 
ITA with the bolded parts.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 28, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Oh I'm not saying that at all but people need to be whole first. Marriage comes with its own set of issues and if you have personal issues as well it can be a lot more difficult. Things like paranoia, insecurities, unecessary baggage can cause things to fail miserably. I'm saying if a person has a trail of broken relationships it's time to look at oneself and see what one's part in the failure of the relationship was. A relationship takes 2 people to work and to fail (in most situations).
> 
> I don't believe that God intends for our single season to be extended unless He told you that. It is in His will for us to be married. And no God won't necessarily wait until one is "ready" but for example if the man is ready and you are with "mr. right now" and all caught up in that mess, it's not that God don't want you to be married but you aren't doing what you are supposed to be doing in order to receive your husband. That's what I mean by positioning yourself. I think people miss their husbands and wives when they try and take things into their own hands or do things to fill time.



I get what you're saying now, and I am in agreement!

I know for me, I took things into my own hands when I was in doubt about whether it was "God's will" for me to marry or not. Now that I know it is, and that I have expressed that desire, it's been easier for me to just let go and trust Him, while still doing the necessary work on my end to help it happen the RIGHT way!


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## Ramya (Feb 28, 2008)

gn1g said:


> I agree with the bolded and please eloborate on the red.


 
Last year I was telling God about my day and jokingly I asked Him when would I know who my husband was without a doubt and He said "July 2008" I was not expecting a response 

A few months later He gave me a quick glipse of my husband in a dream. I think I know who it is based on what I saw but I won't try and guess until July . Maybe I'll just ask for a name or something. I'm sooo impatient


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## SEMO (Feb 28, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Last year I was telling God about my day and jokingly I asked Him when would I know who my husband was without a doubt and He said "July 2008" *I was not expecting a response
> *
> A few months later He gave me a quick glipse of my husband in a dream. I think I know who it is based on what I saw but I won't try and guess until July . Maybe I'll just ask for a name or something. I'm sooo impatient



That is hilarious.  I understand exactly what you mean about not expecting a response.  Maybe I should ask God the same question  (and He could send me a dream too while He's at it ). Now, don't forget to come back here in July to make an update thread .


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 28, 2008)

Great thread.  I also believe in positioning oneself.  Some of the greatest romances happened because women were in the right place to get "chose." (as my friend says )  My favorite modern day love story is Mary and Fred of Denmark.  She was an "ordinary" working girl and he was a wealthy prince.  On the night they met, she changed her plans at the last minute and decided to meet some friends at a bar during the Olympics not knowing she would meet the man who would be her husband.  And they lived happily ever after. . .

I used to be a die hard MMH fan and read a lot of her books.  She does have a good message but the message gets old after a while.  We need more authors telling good Christian wives in training how to prepare and be seen.  I firmly believe that when a good man is looking for something and finds it, he will know and he will pursue.  I'm just trying to live my life and when he finds me, hopefully he'll be wowed by my zest for life.

I love the idea of having mentors.  I find that now, I'm attracting women into my life who are interested in my dating life.  One relatively new friend stopped me during one of our study sessions and told me she couldn't understand why I was single.  Anyway, I've gotten more proactive in my search and I hope I am found soon.


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## gn1g (Feb 29, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Last year I was telling God about my day and jokingly I asked Him when would I know who my husband was without a doubt and He said "July 2008" I was not expecting a response
> 
> A few months later He gave me a quick glipse of my husband in a dream. I think I know who it is based on what I saw but I won't try and guess until July . Maybe I'll just ask for a name or something. I'm sooo impatient


 

God is awesome!

I received a response from him like that when I was 16.  I didn't really ask the questions I was just given the answers.  I was told the year I would get married and that I would have a child when I was 27 and it all came to pass.  I love to have conversations with God.  My impatients gets in the way sometimes in that I am so busy babbling that I don't take time to listen.  I find that the more I read his word the more I hear his audible voice.  

. . . .  "Be still and know the I am God."


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## lady_brown (Mar 3, 2008)

It's funny because me and a friend of mine were just speaking on this subject last night.  He was telling me that I need to get out more, because I will never run into my "Mr. Right."  I don't do much...I'm on the ship for the most of the day, and then straight from there I go to class, and then any time in between I'm either in the gym or studying. I feel as though if it is meant for me to be in a "good" relationship it will occur with out me having to go out of my way to run into him.  From reading the forum it seems as though everyone seems to have the same opinion as my friend.


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## kbragg (Mar 4, 2008)

chellero said:


> OT - What's wrong with watching Oprah?


 
She's ungodly consel and stands for and supports everything anti-Christ: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/oprah-fool.htm And even now with her big huge push of "The Secret" and now this "A New Earth" book as well. Millions of Christians are being lead head first into the metaphysical world and don't even know it, so I choose not to watch her.

My comment though was pertaining more to business and such moreso than her moral position (i.e. why you sitting up in here watching Oprah when you could be working on making the money you need to to get out of debt...duh!:lol)


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## Bunny77 (Mar 4, 2008)

lady_brown said:


> It's funny because me and a friend of mine were just speaking on this subject last night.  He was telling me that I need to get out more, because I will never run into my "Mr. Right."  I don't do much...I'm on the ship for the most of the day, and then straight from there I go to class, and then any time in between I'm either in the gym or studying. I feel as though if it is meant for me to be in a "good" relationship it will occur with out me having to go out of my way to run into him.  From reading the forum it seems as though everyone seems to have the same opinion as my friend.



Well, he is a man... he might have a clue as to how men think.    (Not saying men are always right lachen, but they can hit it on the nose sometimes!)

I've heard a lot of other Christian men say that they like to be out and about doing activities and other things besides work/school/job/church, but they don't meet any women when they are out... and yet, the women will complain that they can't meet a good man at work/school/job/church... as if those are the only options available to them! 

GET OUT!  

P.S. I don't think there is any one way for a good relationship to occur. It could very well happen with you doing nothing, or it could happen with you exerting some effort.

I think one problem is that we think that there is one way that relationships have to develop and then we use religious reasoning to support that idea ("God's will," "Everything in His time," etc...).

When if you actually examine various marital relationships in the Bible, they developed in different ways... some were just women doing their own thing and a man happened upon them and in other cases, parents played matchmaker and brought their children together. 

Esther entered a competition to end up with King Xerxes (Ahaserus -- sp?) as her husband. Yes, he "picked" her, but she put herself in the pool to be picked. She didn't just wait around and hope some man would happen upon her and pray to God to send her a husband and then do nothing! 

Just some food for thought.


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## janiebaby (Mar 4, 2008)

Haven't been in this thread much but kbragg and Bunny.........


Yall know I love yall right????


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## Bunny77 (Mar 4, 2008)

janiebaby said:


> Haven't been in this thread much but kbragg and Bunny.........
> 
> 
> Yall know I love yall right????



I love you too!

I haven't been ignoring you... thanks for the PMs you sent... I'll get back to ya soon!


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## kbragg (Mar 4, 2008)

janiebaby said:


> Haven't been in this thread much but kbragg and Bunny.........
> 
> 
> Yall know I love yall right????


 
I love you too boo!


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## MzRhonda (Mar 4, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Well...you gotta lean on your boldness is Christ Ms. Lady Let me preface that though. I'm not talking about "chasing" a man who's no good and shows no interest in you and coming across as deparate. I'm just speaking of being proactive.
> 
> For example if you pray "Lord, I need a breakthough in my finances!" but you still watch Oprah, still run up your credit cards, still have the same spending habits, and don't become a better stewart of what you have, then if God doesn't drop manna/ombey from heaven into your lap, don't assume it's "just not God's will" for you to be free from financial bondage. He's wanting to see if you can be trusted with what you have because he knows if he gives you more, it'll ruin you, and a good Daddy doesn't do that to his kids.
> 
> *So if you say "Lord send me a husband" but spend 99.9% at home in hermit mode, don't assume that "it's not God's will" for you to be married...you're just hiding and caint be found*!


 
Shaking my head right there!


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## Crystalicequeen123 (Mar 12, 2008)

Starr1 said:
			
		

> I had to "position" myself to be found because my poor husband was so dense in the beginning!It took him MONTHS to realize that I liked him and then he had the nerve to tell me that he would have asked me out sooner if I had only made the fact that I was interested more obvious!
> 
> We met at school (Christian college) and I just knew he was the man for me, so you better believe I made sure to just-so-happen to be at all the same school functions, events, and bible studies that he was. I* invited him to sit next to me in chapel, or to go out with a group of friends to a coffee shop, or have lunch me in the courtyard.* I wasn't aggressive or desperate or pushy, I didn't go chasing him down, but I was out and about so he couldn't help but see me. *I kept it lady like but I made myself known and after a while he took notice. *I let him pursue me: the more he knew about me, the more he wanted to know; the more he spent time with me, the more he wanted to spend time with me; and the more he saw that I was a woman of God who eventually wanted a Godly husband, the more he wanted to make sure that he was that husband.
> 
> If I had kept to myself and not put myself in a position to be noticed, then I seriously doubt my shy DH would have asked me out of his own accord.



Good point!    I do believe in at least making yourself "visible" in order to attract a guy.  Not in a showy way of course, but just make sure he knows who you are type of way.  You can't just expect some guy to just drop in your lap!  

However, with the points in bold....  I'm a bit confused.  Inviting him to sit down with you, or inviting him to hang out with you and your friends...isn't that kind of like pursuing *HIM*??    I guess I don't understand the difference between getting him to notice you, and actually aggressively pursuing the guy.  

What is typically entailed when women talk about pursuing a guy or being *"aggressive"?  *Because I figured that calling a guy, texting a guy, inviting a guy to hang out with you & friends (when he hasn't invited you out), and approaching him all the time at church would be sort of like pursuing him. But maybe I'm wrong?  

I mean, some women don't do anything, and it seems like they still end up dating and getting married.  But yet others flirt and do all things to attract a guy and some of them still don't end up snagging the guy. Does it depend on the guy?  What constitutes as being "desperate" in your mind? I think I have a distorted view of this because all my life my mom always warned me about coming across as "desperate" or "needy", so it made me not even want to approach _any _guy.  It made me afraid of even using my feminine charm to even attract any guy really. To this day I still don't think I really know how to talk to guys/men without feeling self-conscious or being afraid that they think/know that I like them, etc.   My  mom was of the belief that a guy would come out of nowhere and instantly be attracted to me, and want to date me.  

So what is being "too aggressive" or "desperate" in your view? How can you "start the ball rolling" without appearing needy and coming off as a turn-off to the guy?


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## SEMO (Mar 12, 2008)

Crystalicequeen123 said:


> *I mean, some women don't do anything, and it seems like they still end up dating and getting married.  But yet others flirt and do all things to attract a guy and some of them still don't end up snagging the guy. *Does it depend on the guy?  What constitutes as being "desperate" in your mind? I think I have a distorted view of this because all my life my mom always warned me about coming across as "desperate" or "needy", so it made me not even want to approach _any _guy.  It made me afraid of even using my feminine charm to even attract any guy really. To this day I still don't think I really know how to talk to guys/men without feeling self-conscious or being afraid that they think/know that I like them, etc.   My  mom was of the belief that a guy would come out of nowhere and instantly be attracted to me, and want to date me.
> 
> So what is being "too aggressive" or "desperate" in your view? How can you "start the ball rolling" without appearing needy and coming off as a turn-off to the guy?



All of those are million dollar questions.  But seeing as how I am still dateless  I won't offer up any solutions.  But I understand the bolded completely.  Sometimes I wonder if I just seem unapproachable.


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## Sunshine_One (Mar 18, 2008)

BUMPing.......


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## Bunny77 (Mar 22, 2008)

Another bump!


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## Butterfly08 (Mar 22, 2008)

SEMO said:


> Also, I like Michelle McKinney Hammond (I have several of her books), but despite all the books she writes, of which there are _many_, about relationships and how to get a man to marry you, she herself is still single. I think it would be wise to solicit advice from ladies successfully married, and not just singles.


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## Butterfly08 (Mar 22, 2008)

gn1g said:


> I also like all the advice he gave to RUTH. The world needs more BOAZs instead of Bozos!


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## gn1g (Mar 23, 2008)

I was having this discussion with a few friends, one of which is the one that doesn't go anywhere and the other one who is a youngster and just left her live in boyfriend.  The subject came up "*about where to go and what to do*".  There is not a night life for christians??  I really don't have an answer for that.  The youngster whose late 20's says the loneliness is overwhelming at times.

Do you all have any suggestions?

My advice was too always look your best whenever you leave the house, where ever you go.  Go to all the places you have an interest in.  Join groups and organizations that peak your interest.  So I was somewhat at a lost but I did say check the weekend guide for things to do, and dallasblack.com.  However dallasblack is more geared toward the night club.  


I guess I am back peddling on this cause they need to get out more, make it easier for him to find them but at the same rate God knows how to get all paths to cross.


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## Bunny77 (Mar 23, 2008)

gn1g said:


> I was having this discussion with a few friends, one of which is the one that doesn't go anywhere and the other one who is a youngster and just left her live in boyfriend.  The subject came up "*about where to go and what to do*".  There is not a night life for christians??  I really don't have an answer for that.  The youngster whose late 20's says the loneliness is overwhelming at times.
> 
> Do you all have any suggestions?
> 
> ...



Wow, are they serious? They live in Dallas and can't find things to do?

You can go out to restaurants, coffee houses, poetry slams, book clubs, professional mixers (for one's individual career), conferences, hobby meet-ups, etc., etc. Do they not have hobbies or interests that they'd like to explore? No community education classes they might want to take? 

Your friends are really going to have to get creative here and start thinking outside of the box... since when did "going out" only mean night clubs and bars?

Um, and while I don't mean to be mean... it's funny that one Christian woman had a live-in boyfriend, but yet, she's getting hung up on the idea of going to bars and nightclubs and saying there's nothing for Christian women to do for fun. erplexed


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## chicacanella (Mar 24, 2008)

Crystalicequeen123 said:


> Good point!  I do believe in at least making yourself "visible" in order to attract a guy. Not in a showy way of course, but just make sure he knows who you are type of way. You can't just expect some guy to just drop in your lap!
> 
> However, with the points in bold.... I'm a bit confused. Inviting him to sit down with you, or inviting him to hang out with you and your friends...isn't that kind of like pursuing *HIM*??  I guess I don't understand the difference between getting him to notice you, and actually aggressively pursuing the guy.
> 
> ...


 

That is a good question. And further more, what if you see a guy in church that you are attracted to but he is on the other side of the church?  Do you make it a point to sit next to him the next Sunday? Get involved in more church activities?


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## gn1g (Mar 24, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> Um, and while I don't mean to be mean... it's funny that one Christian woman had a live-in boyfriend, but yet, she's getting hung up on the idea of going to bars and nightclubs and saying there's nothing for Christian women to do for fun. erplexed


 
that's a long story but she _was _a luke warm baptist.


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## gn1g (Mar 24, 2008)

chicacanella said:


> That is a good question. And further more, what if you see a guy in church that you are attracted to but he is on the other side of the church? Do you make it a point to sit next to him the next Sunday? Get involved in more church activities?


 

If it were me I would sit closer to him . . . make sure that when the pastor says touch, slap, hi-five, hug, testify to your neighbor that he is your neighbor.  At the end of the service extend a hug or a handshake and say it was nice having you as a neighbor etc. .

Cause I don't think men are very aggressive at church.


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## Bunny77 (Mar 24, 2008)

gn1g said:


> that's a long story but she _was _a luke warm baptist.



Okay, gotcha.      When I read your post, it just seemed like ole girl was more concerned about the "lesser" evil in this situation rather than the bigger problem... but thanks for clarifying a bit!

I'm praying that both of your friends find some success in this!


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## chicacanella (Mar 24, 2008)

gn1g said:


> If it were me I would sit closer to him . . . make sure that when the pastor says touch, slap, hi-five, hug, testify to your neighbor that he is your neighbor. At the end of the service extend a hug or a handshake and say it was nice having you as a neighbor etc. .
> 
> Cause I don't think men are very aggressive at church.


 

Okay, good idea. I will try to do that.


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## Poohbear (Mar 25, 2008)

*Janice*, I am loving your posts! You are very helpful and encouraging. I agree with everything you have said.


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## mrselle (Mar 25, 2008)

gn1g said:


> Cause I don't think men are very aggressive at church.



Some men can be very aggressive at church.  I once had this man literally run me down as I was walking to my car and say to me, “You’ve been in my spirit.”  Then he asked me for my number.


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## cheetarah1980 (Mar 25, 2008)

I've read this entire thread and I have to agree with EVERYTHING Bunny has posted.  Girl, you are on point.

Sometimes I think all of the advice geared toward Christian singles (especially women) has done more harm than good.  First the idea that one status is better than another makes people feel less than their counterparts in the opposite situation.  Lately the prevailing idea is that you have to reach a certain level of singleness before you can graduate to marriage.  The two situations are so vastly different and both come with their own sets of rewards and challenges that it isn't fair to elevate one over the other.  Plus it puts singles in a position of always trying to do more in order to get the go ahead to finally be married.  It's destructive because there really is no Biblical basis for it.

Secondly, I think some have forgotten that we as women have eyes too.  Unless you exist in a completely single sex universe, you're going to come into contact w/ men.  And men aren't the only ones who notice the opposite sex.  It seems as though the focus is on men noticing us, but what about us noticing men?  Attraction doesn't start when a man says it do.  For example, I was eating lunch with a married couple last weekend and asked how they met.  They went to college together, but didn't start dating until years later.  The wife admitted that when they were in school he didn't really appeal to her.  After graduation their paths crossed again (the husband lived in the same townhouse as a friend of hers) and this time she liked what she saw.  From there she found reasons (real and make believe) to be over at that townhouse so she could be around him.  It took him a little while, but he finally caught her vibe and asked her out.  The rest is history.  

We aren't just passive creatures thinking "pick me! pick me!"  If we're honest with ourselves, sometimes we do the picking as well.  And there's nothing wrong with that.


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## chicacanella (Mar 26, 2008)

cheetarah1980 said:


> I've read this entire thread and I have to agree with EVERYTHING Bunny has posted. Girl, you are on point.
> 
> Sometimes I think all of the advice geared toward Christian singles (especially women) has done more harm than good. First the idea that one status is better than another makes people feel less than their counterparts in the opposite situation. Lately the prevailing idea is that you have to reach a certain level of singleness before you can graduate to marriage. The two situations are so vastly different and both come with their own sets of rewards and challenges that it isn't fair to elevate one over the other. Plus it puts singles in a position of always trying to do more in order to get the go ahead to finally be married. It's destructive because there really is no Biblical basis for it.
> 
> ...


 

Your post is soooo on point and needed as encouragement and advice for alot of women in the body of Jesus.


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## Sly (Mar 26, 2008)

mrselle said:


> Some men can be very aggressive at church. I once had this man literally run me down as I was walking to my car and say to me, “You’ve been in my spirit.” Then he asked me for my number.


 
that's bold !


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## cheetarah1980 (Mar 26, 2008)

Maybe we need to change our view of what pursuing means. To me, pursuing means to try to engage someone on a romantic level. I don't see how inviting a man to coffee is doing that.

How many times have I heard Christian women say, "I would like to be friends with a man before I get involved with him," but then won't ask a man that interests her to have lunch or coffee? How are you supposed to be friends with a man that you never talk to or spend time with?

This reminds me of elementary school when thinking a boy was cute automatically meant you liked him. There are plenty of men that I find attractive, but finding someone attractive does NOT mean I'm trying to date them. It might spark a bit of curiosity or interest, but remember that interest does NOT mean feeling. What's wrong with trying to get to know someone new? If getting a date or a relationship isn't the end goal, then asking a guy to sit next to you or spend time with you is no different than asking a female friend. Maybe if we start looking at it from the perspective of making associates and friends we'd feel less like we were acting desperate or pursuing.


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## SEMO (Mar 27, 2008)

Question:

There's a thread in the relationship forum about women who met their husbands online.  Do you ladies think that using online sites to find dates falls under the realm of you pursuing him?


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## cheetarah1980 (Mar 27, 2008)

SEMO said:


> Question:
> 
> There's a thread in the relationship forum about women who met their husbands online. Do you ladies think that using online sites to find dates falls under the realm of you pursuing him?


 
Creating a profile online in and of itself does not constitute pursuing anyone.  What you do with that profile is another story.  Online communities usually gather people with similar interests into one virtual location.  Sometimes that common interest is dating.  It is very easy for most women to still be in the position of "pursuee" even in the online realm.  A man running across your profile and finding it interesting and contacting you is really no different than a man running across you IRL, finding you interesting, and making your acquaintance.

Plus, contacting a man or initiating an acquaintance does not mean you're pursuing him.  I've contacted men online, not because I wanted to date them, but because I thought something about their profile was interesting or I read what they wrote in a forum and wanted to comment on it.  IRL, I've gone up to a man and said, "I love your hair!" or "That's an awesome shirt!"  Sometimes it's led them to converse with me and maybe ask me out, but most times it's a simple statement that's taken as such.  At a certain age, I think most people are mature enough to understand that just because someone says hi or pays a compliment, it doesn't mean they're trying to be your SO.


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## SEMO (Mar 27, 2008)

cheetarah1980 said:


> Creating a profile online in and of itself does not constitute pursuing anyone.  What you do with that profile is another story.  Online communities usually gather people with similar interests into one virtual location.  Sometimes that common interest is dating.  It is very easy for most women to still be in the position of "pursuee" even in the online realm.  A man running across your profile and finding it interesting and contacting you is really no different than a man running across you IRL, finding you interesting, and making your acquaintance.
> 
> Plus, contacting a man or initiating an acquaintance does not mean you're pursuing him.  I've contacted men online, not because I wanted to date them, but because I thought something about their profile was interesting or I read what they wrote in a forum and wanted to comment on it.  IRL, I've gone up to a man and said, "I love your hair!" or "That's an awesome shirt!"  Sometimes it's led them to converse with me and maybe ask me out, but most times it's a simple statement that's taken as such.  At a certain age, I think most people are mature enough to understand that just because someone says hi or pays a compliment, it doesn't mean they're trying to be your SO.



Thanks for that breakdown.  That makes a lot of sense.  I've never attempted online dating and don't really know all the nuances about it, or the unspoken rules.


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## Crystalicequeen123 (Mar 31, 2008)

cheetarah1980 said:


> I've read this entire thread and I have to agree with EVERYTHING Bunny has posted.  Girl, you are on point.
> 
> Sometimes I think all of the advice geared toward Christian singles (especially women) has done more harm than good.  First the idea that one status is better than another makes people feel less than their counterparts in the opposite situation.  Lately the prevailing idea is that you have to reach a certain level of singleness before you can graduate to marriage.  The two situations are so vastly different and both come with their own sets of rewards and challenges that it isn't fair to elevate one over the other.  Plus it puts singles in a position of always trying to do more in order to get the go ahead to finally be married.  It's destructive because there really is no Biblical basis for it.
> 
> ...



Yes, I've heard of stories like this too.    I actually like it when the woman likes what she sees and somehow goes for it in a non-pursuing way.  

I would prefer to be attracted to my future mate not only spiritually, emotionally, and personality-wise, but also PHYSICALLY too!  Hello??   Why is it that guys think that only the MEN have the authority to pursue women strictly for looks?  Isn't looks what we usually see or know about when we first meet someone?  Why is it so wrong for a woman to want a man who also pleases her physically?? Okay...that didn't quite come out right..    What I meant was...why can't women be with a man who _THEY _find physically attractive also?  

My only fear though is that no matter how often I'm over some guy's house, he will probably eventually think I'm desperate and a fool for being over there so often.  Especially if he doesn't feel the same way.  I think that the only way a woman can feel comfortable being over some guy's house, or always subtly making known her interest is if the guy is also somewhat interested in her also, or if he has given her signs that he could be interested.  Otherwise...isn't it making a fool out of yourself if you're always hanging around a guy and he's  not interested?? And let's face it, most guys won't just come right out and tell you that they aren't interested.  Some of them just like the attention.  

So, how do you tell the difference between a guy who's genuinely interested in you (but perhaps somewhat shy or unsure of how you feel), and a guy who just likes attention from women and wants to keep you on his "reserve list".


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## gn1g (Mar 31, 2008)

Crystalicequeen123 said:


> So, how do you tell the difference between a guy who's genuinely interested in you (but perhaps somewhat shy or unsure of how you feel), and a guy who just likes attention from women and wants to keep you on his "reserve list".


 

Good question, I would say pay attention to the little things/signs.  
Does he make time for you? 
Does he make advance plans for you?  Not last minutes stuff cause #1 said no.  It's the little things.  You can always ask: What do you think about me?  And you should have some sort of a gut feeling.


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## cocoberry10 (Mar 31, 2008)

Bunny77 said:


> I think she needs to do more than what she's doing now if she wants a husband, and it doesn't mean she has to be aggressive.
> 
> To me, being aggressive involves pursuing a man, and I disagree with that. However, if she wants to be "found," she needs to put herself in more places in which she can be found! Expand her comfort zones and social circles so she can be exposed to more men who might be "hunting."
> 
> ...


 
I agree with this. I think a lot of women believe they can sit in their house and be "found". Good luck with that. On the other hand, I think that a lot of men do enjoy pursuing women (even non-Christian ones).

Although neither of these books are "Christian," I think reading them can help show your friend how to see herself as more of a prize.

*How To Marry the Man of Your Choice by Margaret Kent (I really liked this book, b/c she gave tips about conversation, etc.). Some things I didn't agree with was her tip about living together (which I am personally against as a Christian, but if that's your thing, cool).*

*Why Men Love *****es by Sherry Argov. There are a few threads about this in relationship forum.*


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## cocoberry10 (Mar 31, 2008)

Crystalicequeen123 said:


> *I would prefer to be attracted to my future mate not only spiritually, emotionally, and personality-wise, but also PHYSICALLY too! Hello??  Why is it that guys think that only the MEN have the authority to pursue women strictly for looks? *Isn't looks what we usually see or know about when we first meet someone? Why is it so wrong for a woman to want a man who also pleases her physically?? Okay...that didn't quite come out right..  What I meant was...why can't women be with a man who _THEY _find physically attractive also?
> 
> *My only fear though is that no matter how often I'm over some guy's house, he will probably eventually think I'm desperate and a fool for being over there so often.*


 
To answer your question about why guys have the authority to pursue women for looks...THEY DON'T. We do too, we just have to realize it.

To the 2nd bolded: If you aren't desperate, a guy won't think you are


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## HeChangedMyName (Apr 12, 2008)

That depends on the person I guess.  Being aggressive and going after what I want hasn't worked for me yet.  Sure I got some relationships, but they were not godly and they were full of sin.  So now, I am working on a more passive technique---Here is an article that I read that got me started on this new technique.  http://www.crosswalk.com/singles/11549260/

So now, I've put the word out to some key people that I am single and available.  And some of these people are the types who know everyone  .  I've also made it a point to become more active and visible so that I am not just someone who comes to church and goes home.  I am getting to know my fellow parishoners.  I would love to date and marry someone already in my own church, that way I wouldn't have to deal with the issue of the woman following the man to his church.


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## Avyn (Apr 12, 2008)

I agree with KBragg.  See the story of Ruth in the bible.  Naomi was a wise mother and helped Ruth put herself out there so she could be found.  I'm not saying go sleep at some man's feet, but heed the example.  Ruth's lineage led to Jesus' birth.  God was all up in that.  Be open to the leading of the Spirit.  I'm sure I missed the person God spoke to me about because I refused to make the first move.  The way God told me to move was so not aggressive, but I had been beat over the head with that He that findeth a wife quote, that even the modest move I could have made was taboo to me.  They perish for lack of knowledge (and being caught up in traditional religious thought versus being led by the Spirit).


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## missty1029 (Apr 12, 2008)

Sorry I didnt read the whole thread so I dont know if maybe this was mentioned.  We were listening to Creflos Dollar's CD Chosing a Mate. He talke about meeting his wife.  He states that she came into the office he was in and said "im interested in you."  He thought wow this woman wants me and will pursue me! But to his surprise, she never paid him any attention after that.  That sent him spinning and then pursuing her!!! I thought about that because even now there is a guy in church I may be interested in but should I just wait? After hearing that, I would say that and then yes leave it alone.  To me thats not being aggressive at all.  And also get the CD its really good!!!!


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## gn1g (Apr 13, 2008)

missty1029 said:


> Sorry I didnt read the whole thread so I dont know if maybe this was mentioned. We were listening to Creflos Dollar's CD Chosing a Mate. He talke about meeting his wife. He states that she came into the office he was in and said "im interested in you." He thought wow this woman wants me and will pursue me! But to his surprise, she never paid him any attention after that. That sent him spinning and then pursuing her!!! I thought about that because even now there is a guy in church I may be interested in but should I just wait? After hearing that, I would say that and then yes leave it alone. To me thats not being aggressive at all. And also get the CD its really good!!!!


 

I would attempt to start a friendly conversation with him.  Probably about something the pastor said or something church related.  And ask him his name.


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## HeChangedMyName (Apr 14, 2008)

jdub said:


> I agree with KBragg. See the story of Ruth in the bible. Naomi was a wise mother and helped Ruth put herself out there so she could be found. I'm not saying go sleep at some man's feet, but heed the example. Ruth's lineage led to Jesus' birth. God was all up in that. Be open to the leading of the Spirit. I'm sure I missed the person God spoke to me about because I refused to make the first move. The way God told me to move was so not aggressive, but I had been beat over the head with that He that findeth a wife quote, that even the modest move I could have made was taboo to me. They perish for lack of knowledge (and being caught up in traditional religious thought versus being led by the Spirit).


 

I have been reading ruth a lot lately.  I have learned something new each time that I read it.  Like how Naomi told Ruth to get all dolled up and fresh before she went to lay at Boaz's feet.  You can't expect to catch Boaz's attention if you're walking around looking beat up from the feet up.


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## gn1g (Apr 14, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> I have been reading ruth a lot lately. I have learned something new each time that I read it. Like how Naomi told Ruth to get all dolled up and fresh before she went to lay at Boaz's feet. You can't expect to catch Boaz's attention if you're walking around looking beat up from the feet up.


 


YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!

Bishop Jakes says wash your face = wash away your bitterness, anger and all the residual stuff from the last relationship(s).


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 14, 2011)

I dont know how I missed this thread.


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## hair_rehab (Feb 14, 2011)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I dont know how I missed this thread.


 
I know! So much good advice that I needed to read, especially on Valentine's Day.


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## makeupgirl (Feb 14, 2011)

bump..................................


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## sassy2011 (May 19, 2011)

great thread


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## makeupgirl (May 19, 2011)

You know I have a male friend that lives in CA.  I really, really like him but as of now, we're just friends.  He's in the bodyguard business.  He wants a wife.  He posted on his fb page, the same scripture in the thread title.  I cannot remember what I told him but one of the things I was thinking was "Are you out looking? or just waiting for God to drop her in your lap"  It's one thing to say, Hey I'm ready to get married but it's another to be activitely seeking by faith.  

Sometimes, men forget that they are the hunters.  I actually like this guy, but even I had to back off a bit so that he can come do the seeking and also so that my heart doesn't get broken.  I ask the Lord that if any guy I met isn't the one to just let them keep going and to draw me away.  I'll admit that I wear my heart on my sleeve and it causes me to be gulliable sometimes especially when it comes to love.  I've never been in love before so I know I only want to do it one time.  I wouldn't say that I'm consistanly in prayer for my husband but I know that he's being prepared, just like I am.  If it's my friend, ok.  It's it's not, ok.  I guess i'm just learning to go with the flow and Let God do this thing.


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## Guitarhero (May 19, 2011)

I've always thought that if a guy is not doing the seeking and he comes into some relationship, then he didn't have the upperhand.  It's not that I would want to be directed by a man, but I side-eye those who don't lead (in a good way).  Would they, at some point, think that they didn't get what they truly were looking for (not that they were actively looking, but just settled)???


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## Renewed1 (May 19, 2011)

kbragg said:


> So if you say "Lord send me a husband" but spend 99.9% at home in hermit mode, don't assume that "it's not God's will" for you to be married...you're just hiding and caint be found!



kbragg, this is so true. The bible says FAITH without WORKS is dead. You have to put forth a mustard seed effort for God to move.


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