# TOXIC Faith: Signs of Religious Addiction



## aribell (Jul 13, 2009)

When does love of the Lord become unbalanced and unhealthy?  Respected Christian author Steve Arterburn and co-author came up with the following test:

From TOXIC FAITH by Steve Arterburn and Jack Felton 
Answer Yes or No to the following questions: 

1. Has your family complained that you are always going to a church meeting rather than spending time with them? ________ 
2. Do you feel extreme guilt for being out of church just one Sunday? ________ 
3. Do you sense that God is looking at what you do, and if you don't do enough, he might turn on you or refuse to bless you? ________ 
4. Do you often tell your children what to do without explaining your reasons, since you know you are right? ________ 
5. Do you find yourself with little time for the pleasures of earlier years because you are so busy serving on committees and attending other church groups? ________ 
6. Have people complained that you use so much scripture in your conversation that it is hard to communicate with you? ________ 
7. Are you giving money to a ministry because you believe God will make you wealthy if you give? ________ 
8. Have you ever been involved sexually with a minister out of wedlock? ________ 
9. Is it hard for you to make a decision without consulting your pastor? Even over the small issues? ________ 
10. Do you see your minister as more powerful than other humans? ________ 
11. Has your faith led you to lead an isolated life, making it hard for you to relate to your family and friends? ________ 
12. Have you ever found yourself looking to your minister for quick fix to lifelong problem? ________ 
13. Do you feel extreme guilt over the slightest mistakes or inadequacies? ________ 
14. Is your most significant relationship deteriorating over your strong beliefs, compared to those of a "weaker partner"? ________ 
15. Do you ever have thoughts of God wanting you to destroy yourself or others in order to go and live with him? ________ 
16. Do you regularly believe that God is communication with you in an audible voice? ________ 
17. Do you feel that God is angry with you? ________ 
18. Do you believe you are still being punished for something you did as a child? ________ 
19. Do you feel if you work a little harder, God will forgive you? ________ 
20. Has anyone ever told you that a minister was manipulating your thoughts and feelings? ________ 

*"If you answered yes to at least 3 questions you may be a religious addict." *

What do you all think of the above?  Any that you feel shouldn't be on there?  Any missing signs?  Know any religious addicts?  Are you one?


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## Shimmie (Jul 13, 2009)

What you callin' me out, Nicola ?


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## hurricane (Jul 13, 2009)

*This is a good topic. One of my family members have been accused by other family members of reading her Bible too much. There has to be a balance, unless you where called to be a Levite or prophet of God. 

*


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Jul 13, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> 2. Do you feel extreme guilt for being out of church just one Sunday? ________
> 
> *"If you answered yes to at least 3 questions you may be a religious addict." *
> 
> What do you all think of the above?  Any that you feel shouldn't be on there?  Any missing signs?  Know any religious addicts?  Are you one?




Definitely NOT an addict...but only one applies by default...it's always a holy obligation


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## msa (Jul 13, 2009)

It seems like most of the things mentions are required by different religions. Maybe everyone has toxic faith.


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## aribell (Jul 13, 2009)

msa said:


> It seems like most of the things mentions are required by different religions. Maybe everyone has toxic faith.


 
I think it's tricky because a lot of things the Lord truely requires are too radical for those who don't believe.  I remember my mother thought I was a "fanatic" when I started listening to Gospel music and getting up in the morning to read the Bible, _ordering_ me to go back to sleep.    So, folks aren't going to understand.  

But still, I think faith becomes toxic when its _substance_ revolves around churches and committees and pastors and groups, etc.  It should be about knowing Christ and walking in His ways rather than being committed to a certain group, establishment, etc.  "God" is not "church," right?


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## GraceV2 (Jul 13, 2009)

The timing of this post is amazing.  Just last night, my father and I got into an argument because he feels that I am getting too "addicted" to Christianity.  He cited many signs that are coincidentally on the list.  I must admit I answered yes to several of them (for example 1-6).  I'm a born again Christian and want the passion I have right now for the Lord to continue to grow along with my relationship with Him.  Just like I told my father, I don't think those "signs" are addiction.  I just think they're signs of loving your Lord.  (not all of them though...case in point #8 )


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## msa (Jul 13, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> I think it's tricky because a lot of things the Lord truely requires are too radical for those who don't believe.  I remember my mother thought I was a "fanatic" when I started listening to Gospel music and getting up in the morning to read the Bible, _ordering_ me to go back to sleep.    So, folks aren't going to understand.
> 
> But still, I think faith becomes toxic when its _substance_ revolves around churches and committees and pastors and groups, etc.  It should be about knowing Christ and walking in His ways rather than being committed to a certain group, establishment, etc.  "God" is not "church," right?




I think many times it's too radical even for those who do believe.

Faith should be about knowing Christ and following him, but I think that the expression of faith here on earth does require certain things like being at church all the time because you are involved. As a believer, there's not much else you should be doing aside from working to feed yourself.

Another example would be separating yourself from the world. Well if you are truly doing that then you should be leading "an isolated life, making it hard for you to relate to your family and friends", at least the ones that are unsaved. And #14 speaks to being unequally yoked.

I feel like if I were truly following my beliefs right now, I'd have to answer yest to 13 of the questions. According to them, that would be super toxic.


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## Laela (Jul 13, 2009)

wow! what timing.. I just saw this book in the clearance section at BooksAMillion...  LOL

I think a balanced-life is beneficial for a healthy relationship with God.


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## Laela (Jul 13, 2009)

I respectfully disagree... you can live in this world and not be of it, but that doesn't equate with living under a rock; that seems to be the misunderstanding that gets us all caught up in pegging all Christians in the same hole. God gave us all intelligence and spiritual wisdom. Christians who dedicate themselves to living for God CAN also enjoy life. There's a difference between constantly hanging out with a group of unsaved people (movies, the park, events, trips, etc.) and hanging out with  group of saved people -- at those same events but for the wrong reasons... 




msa said:


> Faith should be about knowing Christ and following him, but I think that the expression of faith here on earth does require certain things like being at church all the time because you are involved. As a believer, there's not much else you should be doing aside from working to feed yourself.
> 
> *Another example would be separating yourself from the world. Well if you are truly doing that then you should be leading "an isolated life*, making it hard for you to relate to your family and friends", at least the ones that are unsaved. And #14 speaks to being unequally yoked.
> 
> I feel like if I were truly following my beliefs right now, I'd have to answer yest to 13 of the questions. According to them, that would be super toxic.


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## Ladybelle (Jul 13, 2009)

I do think that sometimes people can get caught up in religious acts rather than pure worship of God. 

I know plenty of people who can quote scriptures at the drop of a hat, in church all the time, don't drink, don't party, don't do anything except talk about the Lord, and that's all it is:talk.  

My dad put it best " one can be so heavenly bound that they are no earthly good." 

We can't put God into a box and he certainly does not require us to live in one.


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## msa (Jul 13, 2009)

Laela said:


> I respectfully disagree... you can live in this world and not be of it, but that doesn't equate with living under a rock; that seems to be the misunderstanding that gets us all caught up in pegging all Christians in the same hole. God gave us all intelligence and spiritual wisdom. Christians who dedicate themselves to living for God CAN also enjoy life.* There's a difference between constantly hanging out with a group of unsaved people (movies, the park, events, trips, etc.) and hanging out with  group of saved people -- at those same events but for the wrong reasons...*




The bold is what I took it to mean. That you would isolate yourself from unsaved people and influences as much as you can, not that you would live under a rock.


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## Laela (Jul 13, 2009)

Really?? I don't see how going out and hanging OUT among other people is "isolation" just becuase it's with other saved folks. It might seem cliquish, depending on who perceives it that way, but it's definitely not isolation. LOL 
With that concept in mind, I can easily say Boy and Girl Scouts are isolated groups.

Like any group of people, Christians tend to gravitate toward one another -- especially when they share a zeal for God and the desire to live right. Nothing wrong with that... They can go out skating, bowling, hanging out at each other houses, go out witnessing in groups, attend conventions, etc.. you name it, it can all be done, and IN JESUS' name at that... 




msa said:


> The bold is what I took it to mean. That you would isolate yourself from unsaved people and influences as much as you can, not that you would live under a rock.


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## msa (Jul 13, 2009)

Laela said:


> Really?? I don't see how going out and hanging OUT among other people is "isolation" just becuase it's with other saved folks. It might seem cliquish, depending on who perceives it that way, but it's definitely not isolation. LOL
> With that concept in mind, I can easily say Boy and Girl Scouts are isolated groups.
> 
> Like any group of people, Christians tend to gravitate toward one another -- especially when they share a zeal for God and the desire to live right. Nothing wrong with that... They can go out skating, bowling, hanging out at each other houses, go out witnessing in groups, attend conventions, etc.. you name it, it can all be done, and IN JESUS' name at that...




LOL I think we're saying the same thing. I'm saying that you *isolate yourself from unsaved people.* And instead, you surround yourself with people who are saved. 

By staying away from the unsaved you are isolating yourself from them.


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## topsyturvy86 (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't think we Christians should isolate ourselves/stay away from unsaved folks, that's a bit selfish. If we do, how're they gonna get saved? My mum always says that Christians are the 67th book of the bible. Through you and the way u live ur life, people can see the light and get to know God, and develop an interest in getting into a relationship with him. 

Funny you bring up toxic faith, in Church on Sunday the message was about taking another drink of the Holy Spirit. Being drunk/intoxicated/filled with the Holy spirit. Ephesians 5 "18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of God."

I would imaging this is what true toxic faith should be and not focussed on the physical stuff like going for every church single meeting. Of course building the Kingdom comes first but I feel there should be balance that allows us time to enjoy the life God has given us and also hang with people outside the Church leading them to Christ.


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## Shimmie (Jul 14, 2009)

Number 11 fits me to a T.  I definitely 'Isolate' myself from others and have no apologies nor regrets about it.   In this life you HAVE to.   Jesus did it.   He HAD to.   There are times when God 'calls' us away to be alone with Him, and to just 'be still' in His presence.   To just be 'still.' 

I love eating lunch 'alone'.   I love it.   It's my time during the day to be away from the hectic activities and distractions of others.   In the morning on the train enroute to work, I purposely 'isolate' myself from the crowds and from people who want to talk.   I prefer to 'be still' and enjoy those moments of 'isolation' , before I enter into the busy 'ness and the noise and distractions of the day.     

I love 'Isolation'.     I love it.  

Now am I anti-social?    Nope!    

I have a full life of people and social activities that I love and who love me back.  Family, Friends, Dance Teachers,  Classes and Class members, Social Events, Home Prayer Gatherings with my closest family and friends, Church 'Family', Church Events and Prayer Shut-ins,  frequent travel; and did I mention work?   

Ummm, yeah    I NEED to "Isolate" and I do it without hesitation.   For I need this time to 'hear' God and to allow Him to prepare me for what He's called me to do.   I 'Isolate' in order to 'flow' with the Holy Spirit, without waver, without doubt, without wrath.   

 I 'Isolate' myself and love it.    

The Peace of God...so worth the Isolation.


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## aribell (Jul 14, 2009)

msa said:


> LOL I think we're saying the same thing. I'm saying that you *isolate yourself from unsaved people.* And instead, you surround yourself with people who are saved.
> 
> By staying away from the unsaved you are isolating yourself from them.


 
I'm not sure that this is what the Lord is calling us to.  In the Gospels, the Pharisees were always criticizing Jesus for hanging out with the tax collectors and "sinners," but they were wrong for that.  And in Corinthians, Paul tells us: "I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. *10* *Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world*."  But it's the immoral _believers_ that we're supposed to isolate ourselves from.


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## msa (Jul 14, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> I don't think we Christians should isolate ourselves/stay away from unsaved folks, that's a bit selfish. If we do, how're they gonna get saved? My mum always says that Christians are the 67th book of the bible. Through you and the way u live ur life, people can see the light and get to know God, and develop an interest in getting into a relationship with him.



Obviously, you have to interact with unsaved people. But are unsaved people your best friends? does a saved person marry an unsaved person? No. Because saved people isolate themselves from the unsaved, on a personal level.



nicola.kirwan said:


> I'm not sure that this is what the Lord is calling us to.  In the Gospels, the Pharisees were always criticizing Jesus for hanging out with the tax collectors and "sinners," but they were wrong for that.  And in Corinthians, Paul tells us: "I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. *10* *Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world*."  But it's the immoral _believers_ that we're supposed to isolate ourselves from.



In order to truly isolate yourself from the unsaved, yeah you'd need "to go out of the world" or be in a cult or closed religious community. But I do think saved people isolate themselves from the unsaved.

Of course you can't help who you work with or shop at the grocery store with or who your family is, and obviously you have to witness to the unsaved (in whatever form that takes). But saved people, IMO, do not spend the bulk of their free time with unsaved people.


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## Laela (Jul 14, 2009)

oh, right... 

I see.. now. 




msa said:


> LOL I think we're saying the same thing. I'm saying that you *isolate yourself from unsaved people.* And instead, you surround yourself with people who are saved.
> 
> By staying away from the unsaved you are isolating yourself from them.


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## Laela (Jul 14, 2009)

Good points.. there's a GINORMOUS difference between being alone and being lonely. Matter of fact, there are people who don't live in "isolation" and are around people all the time and _*they still feel lonely.*_ 

I praise God for you-- that you see where some of us are coming from. People either see the Christian life as one extreme or the other. We need balance in our lives. It's good what works for you is time alone during a certain time of the day to commune with the Father. I don't see that as being anti-social nor selfish... 

No matter WHAT we do, if we're living the life God wants us to live...we will draw others, without even trying. No doubt.

 "For we are not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.."

God bless



Shimmie said:


> I love eating lunch 'alone'.   I love it.   It's my time during the day to be away from the hectic activities and distractions of others.   In the morning on the train enroute to work, I purposely 'isolate' myself from the crowds and from people who want to talk.   I prefer to 'be still' and enjoy those moments of 'isolation' , before I enter into the busy 'ness and the noise and distractions of the day.
> 
> I love 'Isolation'.     I love it.
> 
> ...


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## Laela (Jul 14, 2009)

Hi, Topsy,

That's an extreme position, IMHO. Can you please expound on the selfishness so I understand where you're coming from?


			
				topsyturvy86; said:
			
		

> *I don't think we Christians should isolate ourselves/stay away from unsaved folks, that's a bit selfish. *If we do, how're they gonna get saved? My mum always says that Christians are the 67th book of the bible. Through you and the way u live ur life, people can see the light and get to know God, and develop an interest in getting into a relationship with him.








I agree with some of what you're saying. But focusing on the spiritual instead of the physical aspect of our Christian walk is what will ultimately put us in "isolation" from unbelievers. Actually, "isolation" is being perceived only from an extreme point of view.  I was speaking of the time a Christian invests in their daily lives. We still can witness to people, as is required. But that certainly doesn't mean spending too much of our spare time with unbelievers. That's counterproductive. If I spend time with people who curse all the time or go to the clubs and they know I'm saved but aren't interested in going to church with me or just brush me off all the time, the ineffectiveness of my Christian walk is apparent. How CAN they get saved? My life has to be the example I want others to see, and half the time that means going against the grain. And, if my Christian life is weak or I'm not strong enough, staying away for a while from the influence of others is even critical.

If I choose to do/say only things that edify God and they see me happy all the time, even when things are going wrong, they'll WANT to know what's keeping me buoyant...it's a perfect way to testify and minister to others, through our lives. So yes, "isolation" is effective.

When Jesus went out among sinners, he had a mission that was bigger than just being around them: bringing them to salvation. Believers can witness anytime, anywhere and there are so many ways to do it. They can do it one-on-one at work, they can join groups and go out into the community. How they choose to live their daily personal lives outside of the Kingdom's business is really their business.

Also, the bolded part seem like an oxymoron to me... TOXIC is just not a good word at all... when talking about God, IMHO. The word itself means "_capable of causing death or debilitation...harsh, malicious or harmful_."

I think I understand what you mean..but how does "toxic" describe God or the Holy Spirit???


topsyturvy86 said:


> Funny you bring up toxic faith, in Church on Sunday the message was about taking another drink of the Holy Spirit. Being drunk/intoxicated/filled with the Holy spirit. Ephesians 5 "18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of God."
> 
> ]I would imaging this is what *true toxic faith *should be and not focussed on the physical stuff like going for every church single meeting. Of course building the Kingdom comes first but I feel there should be balance that allows us time to enjoy the life God has given us and also hang with people outside the Church leading them to Christ.


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## Shimmie (Jul 14, 2009)

Laela said:


> Good points.. there's a GINORMOUS difference between being alone and being lonely. Matter of fact, there are people who don't live in "isolation" and are around people all the time and _*they still feel lonely.*_
> 
> I praise God for you-- that you see where some of us are coming from. People either see the Christian life as one extreme or the other. We need balance in our lives. It's good what works for you is time alone during a certain time of the day to commune with the Father. I don't see that as being anti-social nor selfish...
> 
> ...


Thanks Laela....   I was serious and at the 'same time' I was being coy...  

I've been thinking about this :scratchch:

I don't believe that any of us who are Christian on this forum are 'Isolators' (per say), otherwise we wouldn't interact with one another so often and so freely.  And we each interact with the 'saved' and unsaved.   I know for sure that I 'cut up' with those in the OT, Political and Make up, forums and I'm not always, shall we say, 'well behaved'.    :blush3:

In PM Land, I have 'friends' and messages which are not all Christians.  We share commom ground with other issues (hair, makeup, dance, etc.) and of course, most of my messages exhort and share prayers.

However, you can 'attest' to this as can many others who 'Minister' and called upon to pray and intercede on behalf of others.    In that we who Minister, have to pull away and 'isolate' ourselves from distractions.   

We have to have the 'loins' of our spirit, girded, ready, dressed and prepared to bring forth a word in season, for he that is weary.   (Isaiah 50:4), Morning by morning, God awakens us and gives us the tongue of the learned, a message in season for those we encounter and whom God places in our path or places us in 'their' path.

I'm not speaking 'Jim Jones isolation and kool aid laced with cyanide poisoning, but the Isolation that Jesus took when His soul needed to be refreshed by the Holy Spirit and why?   For when He feels 'Virtue' flowing from Him per those who but touch the hem of His garment.  The Virtue that came from *Peter's Shadow and Paul's Apron *and healed all in it's path.  The Virtue that fell upon those in the 'Upper Room' at Pentacost.  

Laela, I'm just thinking out loud, that's all.  I guess I'm sorting through some of the posts and just thinking.    

Blessings Angel... :Rose:


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## topsyturvy86 (Jul 15, 2009)

> Hi, Topsy,
> 
> That's an extreme position, IMHO. Can you please expound on the selfishness so I understand where you're coming from?
> 
> ...




I said selfish because we know the good news. The answer to their lives, the solution to all of their issues, the saviour of their souls, the lover of their souls and we kep all this info to ourselves. Imaging Christians as the little bubs of light in this dark world that get bigger when they draw from God by maybe going in isolation/some other way ... if we now all isolate ourselves and restrict ourselves to  Christian folks only, there'll be too much light in certain area's just getting bigger and bigger. The rest of the world is still dark. If we go into the world that light would spread and more places will be lit up for Jesus. A refill to make ourselves/spirits bigger and bigger would still be necessarry however. That's basically my point. Nothing wrong with a periodical isolation, Jesus did it. I do it sometimes but I was speaking about living in isolation/permanent isolation. 

If Jesus could make time to eat in the houses of prostitutes and tax collectors, why can't we? Building the Kingdom of God should be one of our aims as Christians and I don't see how we can do that if we live in isolation. In 1 Corinthians 9:20 - 23, Paul said: "20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law,[a] that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God,* but under law toward Christ[c]), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as[d] weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you." I believe in this approach.








			I agree with some of what you're saying. But focusing on the spiritual instead of the physical aspect of our Christian walk is what will ultimately put us in "isolation" from unbelievers. Actually, "isolation" is being perceived only from an extreme point of view. I was speaking of the time a Christian invests in their daily lives. We still can witness to people, as is required. But that certainly doesn't mean spending too much of our spare time with unbelievers. That's counterproductive. If I spend time with people who curse all the time or go to the clubs and they know I'm saved but aren't interested in going to church with me or just brush me off all the time, the ineffectiveness of my Christian walk is apparent. How CAN they get saved? My life has to be the example I want others to see, and half the time that means going against the grain. And, if my Christian life is weak or I'm not strong enough, staying away for a while from the influence of others is even critical.

If I choose to do/say only things that edify God and they see me happy all the time, even when things are going wrong, they'll WANT to know what's keeping me buoyant...it's a perfect way to testify and minister to others, through our lives. So yes, "isolation" is effective.
		
Click to expand...


A periodic isolation is great, I was speaking about living in isolation. I explained above. Of course you wouldn't spend the great majority of ur time with unsaved people,you'll find u don't share the same values. I didn't mean that.




			When Jesus went out among sinners, he had a mission that was bigger than just being around them: bringing them to salvation. Believers can witness anytime, anywhere and there are so many ways to do it. They can do it one-on-one at work, they can join groups and go out into the community. How they choose to live their daily personal lives outside of the Kingdom's business is really their business.

Also, the bolded part seem like an oxymoron to me... TOXIC is just not a good word at all... when talking about God, IMHO. The word itself means "capable of causing death or debilitation...harsh, malicious or harmful."

I think I understand what you mean..but how does "toxic" describe God or the Holy Spirit???
		
Click to expand...


I meant intoxicated. I'm sure you can tell by the context I didn't mean it in that way! I said intoxicated in the 2nd line and then accidentally used toxic in that one.




			Quote:
Originally Posted by topsyturvy86  
Funny you bring up toxic faith, in Church on Sunday the message was about taking another drink of the Holy Spirit. Being drunk/intoxicated/filled with the Holy spirit. Ephesians 5 "18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of God."

]I would imaging this is what true toxic faith should be and not focussed on the physical stuff like going for every church single meeting. Of course building the Kingdom comes first but I feel there should be balance that allows us time to enjoy the life God has given us and also hang with people outside the Church leading them to Christ.
		
Click to expand...

*


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## Laela (Jul 15, 2009)

Are you talking about witnessing here?? Because this is what Jesus did in the Scripture you're referencing... witnessing, I do agree and believe, is an integral part of a Christian's life. I find that in this thread "restrict" and "isolate" are taken way out of context when talking about a Christian's personal life. I did suggest that Christians will always find themselves in places among sinners/unbelievers, whether it's at a convention or an amusement park, wherever, and can witness to others in those environments. If you're specifically talking about witnessing -- going out to the crackhouse, the jails, the hospitals, etc.... this is part of witnessing. Of course, Jesus told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel.

As a matter of fact, there's strength in numbers, where two and three are gathered in his name will have a tremendous impact on the world. 

In my area, there is a lady who spends a lot of time at a street corner, witnessing to the world -- waving at cars and spreading the good news. And there's a man who preaches/yells from a speaker phone to cars passing by.  They certainly aren't in isolation and they, according to you, are not being "selfish". 

I disagree with you, respectfully, that Christians who constantly surround themselves by other Christians are selfish, *because you're assuming that they are not witnessing. *NOT spreading the good news -- at all -- is what I'd call selfish. 



topsyturvy86 said:


> I said selfish because we know the good news. The answer to their lives, the solution to all of their issues, the saviour of their souls, the lover of their souls and we kep all this info to ourselves. Imaging Christians as the little bubs of light in this dark world that get bigger when they draw from God by maybe going in isolation/some other way ... if we now all isolate ourselves and restrict ourselves to  Christian folks only, there'll be too much light in certain area's just getting bigger and bigger. The rest of the world is still dark. *If we go into the world that light would spread and more places will be lit up for Jesus. *A refill to make ourselves/spirits bigger and bigger would still be necessarry however. That's basically my point. Nothing wrong with a periodical isolation, Jesus did it. I do it sometimes but I was speaking about living in isolation/permanent isolation.
> 
> If Jesus could make time to eat in the houses of prostitutes and tax collectors, why can't we? Building the Kingdom of God should be one of our aims as Christians and I don't see how we can do that if we live in isolation. In 1 Corinthians 9:20 - 23, Paul said: "20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law,[a] that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God,* but under law toward Christ[c]), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as[d] weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you." I believe in this approach.
> 
> ...


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## topsyturvy86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Laela said:


> Are you talking about witnessing here?? Because this is what Jesus did in the Scripture you're referencing... witnessing, I do agree and believe, is an integral part of a Christian's life. I find that in this thread "restrict" and "isolate" are taken way out of context when talking about a Christian's personal life. I did suggest that Christians will always find themselves in places among sinners/unbelievers, whether it's at a convention or an amusement park, wherever, and can witness to others in those environments. If you're specifically talking about witnessing -- going out to the crackhouse, the jails, the hospitals, etc.... this is part of witnessing. Of course, Jesus told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Laela, I'm not making judgements on anyone or assuming anything (most of my friends are Christians BUT they're not my only friends if they're anyone's only friends, thats fine, we're not all on the same journey, there's no right/wrong), neither am I saying A is selfish/B is selfish, and also, you do not have to agree/disagree with me. I was just giving my 2 pence and not trying to convince anyone of anything or to be agree'd or disagreed with. 



In *my personal opinion*, witnessing has more chances of success when you get to know the person u're witnessing to. Now, i'm not saying it isn't successful other ways,but this is simply from *my* life, from what i've seen and know to be true. When you befriend them and show them the unconditional love of Christ, not just tell them about it. When they know you value them, you gain their trust and are more open to whatever you have to say. 



To each his own, there's no right and wrong way of being a Christian. We're all on different journeys and have different purposes. So what works for me, might not work for you, that doesn't mean its right/wrong. An example of what i'm saying: my friends unsaved brother. Young (19/20 yrz)  black boy with gang-like issues. We be-friended and spent time with him, not preaching at him always, just be-friending him. He went through an issue and we were there for him, showing him the love of Christ and accepting him as he was. We could have told him about God's love for him but he had been told before. Showing him made more of a difference. He soon began to seek a relationship with God. He's now saved, serving in Church, and gowing daily in his walk. This unsaved guy and my unsaved 'friends' probably have nothing to offer me, but I believe I have something to offer them and so i'm going to carry on being friends with them and planting a seed that would hopefully one day be watered and grow. Just the way *I* see it.


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## kooskoos (Jul 15, 2009)

Okay kinda OT but...

...should #16 be there? I hear the Lord speak to me all the time


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## Laela (Jul 15, 2009)

I respect your opinion and understand what you're saying... 

I think part of my problem was your generalization that Christians who only have Christian friends aren't witnessing. And even though it's *your *opinion, I'm also expressing my opinion that  that was a generalization.  No, there is no wrong/right way to live a Christian life. ITA

Befriending someone is a form of witnessing, but I think a lot of its effectiveness depends on how/where we spend that time with the person. I'd befriend a stripper who is going through some things, but I sure wouldn't go to the club with her to help her through those issues or to prove that I care about her problems. This is what I'm driving at, and it seems we're both saying the same thing.. from different perspectives... 

Thanks for clarifying and listening to what I tried to articulate.. God bless




topsyturvy86 said:


> To each his own, there's no right and wrong way of being a Christian. We're all on different journeys and have different purposes. So what works for me, might not work for you, that doesn't mean its right/wrong. An example of what i'm saying: my friends unsaved brother. Young (19/20 yrz)  black boy with gang-like issues. We be-friended and spent time with him, not preaching at him always, just be-friending him. He went through an issue and we were there for him, showing him the love of Christ and accepting him as he was. We could have told him about God's love for him but he had been told before. Showing him made more of a difference.   *I* see it.


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## Shimmie (Jul 15, 2009)

Laela said:


> I respect your opinion and understand what you're saying...
> 
> I think part of my problem was your generalization that Christians who only have Christian friends aren't witnessing. And even though it's *your *opinion, I'm also expressing my opinion that that was a generalization. No, there is no wrong/right way to live a Christian life. ITA
> 
> ...


 Excellent!  Excellent example.


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## topsyturvy86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Laela said:


> I respect your opinion and understand what you're saying...
> 
> I think part of my problem was your generalization that Christians who only have Christian friends aren't witnessing. And even though it's *your *opinion, I'm also expressing my opinion that that was a generalization. No, there is no wrong/right way to live a Christian life. ITA
> 
> ...


 
I *never* said or implied any such thing as the bolded! I think it's common sense and goes without saying that you wouldn't defile yourself to prove anything to anyone/be there for anyone. Yeah, I guess we might both be saying a similar thing.


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## aribell (Aug 12, 2010)

Bumping in light of the thread on whether the black church is keeping black women single.  Questions for reflection.


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## aribell (Aug 12, 2010)

msa said:


> I think many times it's too radical even for those who do believe.
> 
> ...
> Another example would be separating yourself from the world. Well if you are truly doing that then you should be leading "an isolated life, making it hard for you to relate to your family and friends", at least the ones that are unsaved. And #14 speaks to being unequally yoked.


 
I missed this point the first time around, but it brought to mind this verse:  _"I wrote to you in my epistle not ot keep company with sexually immoral people.  Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world." _

Paul is telling the believers at Corinth that it is to be expected that they will be regularly interacting with non-believers, those seriously caught up in sin.  It's the _believers _that are living a sinful life that he says not to keep company with.  He also speaks of what one should do if invited to a dinner party by non-believers.  There's no encouragement to be isolated, but rather to be _in_ this world but not _of_ it.


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## Guitarhero (Aug 12, 2010)

nicola.kirwan said:


> 2. Do you feel extreme guilt for being out of church just one Sunday? ________



Great post.  And with the exception of the above, yes.  It's law and mortal sin to forego for other pleasures or situations outside of your control in my camp because of the command to eat and drink His body and blood.  Very informative.


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## SND411 (Aug 12, 2010)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Great post.  And with the exception of the above, yes.  It's law and mortal sin to forego for other pleasures or situations outside of your control in my camp because of the *command to eat and drink His body and blood*.  Very informative.



Do you think it is good to take communion everyday?


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## Guitarhero (Aug 12, 2010)

SND411 said:


> Do you think it is good to take communion everyday?




Absolutely, it's strength.  I don't do it, however.


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## SND411 (Aug 12, 2010)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Absolutely, it's strength.  I don't do it, however.



I am thinking of doing this when with my Christian friends when I get back to school. But sometimes I wonder; is it okay to partake communion alone at times?


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## Guitarhero (Aug 12, 2010)

SND411 said:


> I am thinking of doing this when with my Christian friends when I get back to school. But sometimes I wonder; is it okay to partake communion alone at times?



I'm trying to figure out how to respond because I'm not comprehending exactly.  I'm catholic.  We don't do that...communion alone.  It's a consecrated Host.  Maybe other churches offer communion more than monthly???  Ours is so much more than just saying a prayer and breaking bread, drinking wine.  I could be excommunicated for doing that and it'd be a very grave sin for me...not talking about for others.


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