# Elders tell DH to not take promotion..help!



## Amour (Dec 9, 2011)

Hey ladies,

I need some advise, my Husband has been working extremely hard at securing a promotion; finally it came through.. Whoohoo 

He had gone for this role a few times within his own strength and ampitude and it didn't come through. After reflection he decided to leave it to God and prayed that God would have favour on him and allow His will to be done. He went to church and gave a testimony in advance and the whole church prayed with him and asked God to bless him.

So the following day DH lands the promotion which is in a different city, the elder/pastor of our church after hearing about where the job is located has advised/ politely forced DH to reject the promotion. He's reasoning is that we have recently come to this church and he doesn't feel that God has finished with us here, he stated a blantant disapproval that we would be willing to leave for a promotion and more money. He is extremely adamant about us not going and will be consulting with fellow leaders to discuss this further with them.

I need some advise to help us to make a decision. We feel that this is where God wants us to be. Before this promotion we were talking about leaving this city as we felt we weren't finding favour here, and felt a strong urge that needed to be elsewhere. 

What would you do? We will continue praying and speaking to our elders, I just also wanted to consult with you ladies here; as I don't have many Christian women/fellows I am able to consult with about many things.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 9, 2011)

You family is YOUR family.  If he prayed for a promotion and G_D delivered, team G-d right here!  What do the elders of a church have to say about your family unit's prosperity and happiness?  Leave those people.  There's something going on behind the scenes for anybody to tell another to pass up success and stick behind in a rut.


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 9, 2011)

Listen, you and your husband pray and ask God. Do not let these control your family. I believe the elders are looking out for their best interest.

Your husband is the head of your family, not the elders. Men lead their families, not elders.

God is in your husband and yourself. You guys can hear God.

I dont know these people, but their responses remind me of controlling and manipulative leadership. If so, Run!! 

Sent from my LS670 using LS670


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## Prudent1 (Dec 9, 2011)

Amour,
I'm with GH. The traditional family comes first with God-period. If you and DH feel lead to go then go. What did they (the whole church) pray with you if they have now changederplexed? I would def continue to pray and asking God for guidance and to reveal to us quickly the hearts of all around us. 

*" He's reasoning is that we have recently come to this church and he doesn't feel that God has finished with us here, he stated a blantant disapproval that we would be willing to leave for a promotion and more money."*
Mkay, did he feel lead to supply the difference in income so you can stay where you are? 
I realize I can't speak with certainty b/c all I know is what's in your paragraph but on the outskirts something doesn't sound right. I'm not throwing shade on your pastor or elders either. We're all ppl and subject to make mistakes based on _feelings_. It would be different if he said the Lord issued a warning or something connected to the impending move.


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## creolefox (Dec 9, 2011)

why would god give him the promotion then??? 
this is one of the issues i have with the church....feeling they can control every aspect of your life


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 9, 2011)

wait a minute, they stood in agreement with you now that the job is in another location they don't think that he should take the position...lol

sounds like the spirit of manipulation in operation right here...


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

I wont speak against anyone at your church because I dont know the whole situation. But I will say this

The bible say...acknowledge Him in all your ways and HE will direct your paths..

Just a option, maybe you and your husband should sanctify a fast and seek the Lord on this..I can always hear the Lord very well on a fast.Allow God to answer you on this. And if it still some doubt ask God to confirm it for you and He will..Reminds me of Gideon, when he wanted to be sure if God was sending him, he asked God to put dew on the ground and several other things..and God did those things to confirm it to Gideon.Ask God for confirmation. He doesnt mind that.


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## MrsMe (Dec 9, 2011)

Team God here. The Elders will have to reconsider their position and reflect on what miracle just happened. You were praying for this promotion and it happened by the grace of God. Listen to Him before man. 

Sent from my PG86100


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

RUN  Ferris.... Run....  

Run and do not look back as did Lot's wife.  Too much salt is in the heart of these leaders.    

Leave with a grateful heart:   Pastor, Bishop, Elders, Deacons, _Fellow 'Americans'_,  (sorry ),  

Anyway, back to being serious, go to the Church leaders, and express how blessed you and your family have been by their love, support and ministry.    That you wish all of them God's blessings and nothing less, for always until the return of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, to retrieve His Church to Glory.  

NOW, here's my prayer for you. 

Father in the name of Jesus, I thank you for releasing Amour, her husband and children safely in the Spirit as well as physically to transition into the new Beginning which you have blessed upon them.     

Let no man say, they are without you and that you are not with them.   

Let no man say, they are 'accursed' and not blessed because of this move; 

Let no man say, that they will reap remorse and regrets for leaving.   

Father as you stopped the the cursing of your children when Baalam stood upon the hill to do such, so shall you stop the words of jealousy, from bearing fruit, coming forth from the hearts of those who oppose their move. 

Father if anyone in their current Church, or even outside of the Church, has been persuaded to speak ill will upon Amour's husband and family, let them know, that they cannot follow along with the other's, in this negative behaviour, that they cannot speak evil of your blessings on them. 

[  But God said to Balaam, _“You must not go with them; *you must not curse the people, for they are blessed”* _(Numbers 22:12) ] 


Father, people move, transfer and relocate every single day and they are indeed blessed and they prosper.   So shall Amour and her husband and children, prosper much and give you the Glory for it.    If there is anything lacking, alert them in such a way that they will take heed to your voice and your voice alone and follow your guide, for you are by their side for always.

Thank you that you are Jehovah Shammah, you are already there, at the new location, you have cleared the path for safe travel and you have prepared for them a table in the presence of their 'enemies' (naysayers).   You have annointed them for the 'change', strengthen them for the periods of adjustment, sheltered them in a peaceable habitation.   

In Jesus Name, Amen and Amen....

*Psalm 23*

   The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name' sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
*I will fear no evil: For thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies;
Thou annointest my head with oil; My cup runneth over.*

*Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.*-- KJV

Amour.... Hold on to 'Surely Goodness and Mercy" which shall follow you all the days of your life, that you and Hubbie and family will dwell in the House of the Lord, forever...  Amen.

Amour.... You and Hubbie will dwell in the House of the Lord ... forever.

Please take this passage of scripture literally.   The House of the Lord... 

New Church:  Wherever God places you, it will be the House of the Lord.

New Home:   The house and home that God has prepared for you.  

Your Hearts:  God has found a home in yours and Hubbie's hearts, and the hearts of your children forever...

Goodness and Mercy ... right there, all the time.  

 


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## Amour (Dec 9, 2011)

Prudent1 said:


> AmourIt would be different if he said the Lord issued a warning or something connected to the impending move.



This was what I said to DH. But they were praying for this for us initially but then changed their tune when realised we would have to move.

My concerns are that it 'seems' as the church is a small one and they trying to grow, they are not willing to allow us to leave for this reason. But then I think maybe we would be sacrifcing our own development for the devlopment of the church?

The biggest concern my DH has, is that the elder said sometimes God communicates to elders more easily, which we did not agree with.

We wouldn't want to go with their lack of approval but we really feel this is what God has for us for now.

Also, is it wrong to desire to be successful. There are a lot of successful people in our church, that are able to use their success to bring glory to God and still remain faithful stewards of Christ. We are a young couple and desire the same for ourselves.


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## JayAnn0513 (Dec 9, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> I wont speak against anyone at your church because I dont know the whole situation. But I will say this
> 
> The bible say...acknowledge Him in all your ways and HE will direct your paths..
> 
> Just a option, maybe you and your husband should sanctify a fast and seek the Lord on this..I can always hear the Lord very well on a fast.Allow God to answer you on this. And if it still some doubt ask God to confirm it for you and He will..Reminds me of Gideon, when he wanted to be sure if God was sending him, he asked God to put dew on the ground and several other things..and God did those things to confirm it to Gideon.Ask God for confirmation. He doesnt mind that.



There it is in a nutshell. If God didn't want your husband to get that job he wouldn't have offered it to him. God's word before Man...


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## aribell (Dec 9, 2011)

Amour said:


> The biggest concern my DH has, is that the elder said *sometimes God communicates to elders more easily*, which we did not agree with.
> 
> .....
> 
> Also, is it wrong to desire to be successful. There are a lot of successful people in our church, that are able to use their success to bring glory to God and still remain faithful stewards of Christ. We are a young couple and desire the same for ourselves.


 
What this person is doing is setting themselves up as a mouthpiece of God _over and above_ God speaking to you.  The implication is that you all need to trust him to discern what God is saying because he receives messages from God more easily than you do.  Even if you weren't going to move, I would be willing to say that alone should be enough to consider changing churches. 

Moreover, the Kingdom of God is everywhere.  Surely you and your husband can serve God just as well in another location as you can in this one, particularly if you feel called to that place.  I was reading a while ago in a Derek Prince book about geographic callings and how God's work in you can be stifled if you are in the wrong place.  It seems that you and your husband have already discerned where your place of favor is and it sounds as if the church is more concerned about its own ambitions than with the good of your family.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 9, 2011)

um, really that's not scriptural ...

Sounds like you and your DH are gonna have a probelm leaving this church..put the matter before God not only for clarity but also for strength to deal with any issues...



Amour said:


> This was what I said to DH. But they were praying for this for us initially but then changed their tune when realised we would have to move.
> 
> My concerns are that it 'seems' as the church is a small one and they trying to grow, they are not willing to allow us to leave for this reason. But then I think maybe we would be sacrifcing our own development for the devlopment of the church?
> 
> ...


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## LovelyLouboutin (Dec 9, 2011)

Sounds like your church is a cult to me.  They won't "allow" you to leave?   God should be in control of your life not the elders. How dare they tell you guys not to take a promotion just because it involves a move.  It's very self serving on their part and it's in direct opposition of what God seems to have for you and has delivered to you through not only your prayers but the prayers of your church members.


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## JeterCrazed (Dec 9, 2011)

creolefox said:


> why would god give him the promotion then???
> this is one of the issues i have with the church....feeling they can control every aspect of your life



Ruined my step-sister's marriage with the same ideology. Telling husband to do things in the best interest if the church when he should be home helping with the 5 kids they have. 

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


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## Guitarhero (Dec 9, 2011)

Amour said:


> This was what I said to DH. But they were praying for this for us initially but then changed their tune when realised we would have to move.
> 
> My concerns are that it 'seems' as the church is a small one and they trying to grow, *they are not willing to allow us to leave for this reason.* But then I think maybe we would be sacrifcing our own development for the devlopment of the church?
> 
> ...




Even David and his men plucked wheat heads on the Sabbath.  So did Jesus and the disciples.  You owe your soul to G-d first.  No organization can claim to own you.  You belong to the spiritual Church first.  You are supposed to worship in communion with other believers.  But you are not held and they cannot hold you.  

Please don't take this the wrong way, but is this a black church?  I ask because sometimes, black folks don't like to see others excel when they feel stuck.  They should be elated for your family.  $$ lost, huh?  Well, they should trust G-d to replace the members lost.  I mean, what are they going to do, tell you you are hell-bound for moving on?  Sounds a bit cultist to me.  Lack of approval....you get approval for getting baptised, for getting married (all within the law of G-d), for becoming a priest etc. ...you don't need church approval to work a job.


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## kandake (Dec 9, 2011)

Please don't let them influence your decision.  

This matter is between you all and God.  The decision is not theirs and they should be ashamed of making you all feel guilty for wanting more out of your life.  

God's word says that he comes that we might have life more abundantly.  If you all feel that God answered your prayer and this new phase in your life will allow for a more abundant life then move forward with your original plan.


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## Amour (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks ladies, I really appreciate the counsel


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## MrsHouston (Dec 10, 2011)

Amour said:


> This was what I said to DH. But they were praying for this for us initially but then changed their tune when realised we would have to move.
> 
> My concerns are that it 'seems' as the church is a small one and they trying to grow, *they are not willing to allow us to leave for this reason*. But then I think maybe we would be sacrifcing our own development for the devlopment of the church?
> 
> ...



1) They're not willing to "allow" you to leave....WHAT?  are you serious.  You have to decide for yourself, but "really" look at what you're saying here.

2) This is not true.  SMH.  This is why christians need to know what the bible says for themselves, so they won't be so easily misguided.  

Sorry this is happening to you.


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## achangedlife (Dec 10, 2011)

You guys are saved, there is no reason your husband shouldn't be able to hear God for himself. Remember since Jesus we are our own priesthood, we don't have to go through anyone to be in connection with God. Also the Bible says "I wish above all things that you prosper and be in health, " so of course God wants you to be successful. He had to move Abraham out of his home country in order to bring him to a place where he and his family can be blessed, so if you feel God is doing the same for you then you follow God. Since they helped you guys pray for the promotion I question if their reaction would be different if the promotion was in town, would they be telling him then to not take it? I love my fellow Christians but I seriously have issues with people with titles  controlling other's lives. My sister had a pastor who was telling her to leave her husband, can u get anymore unbiblical then that? That's why u test the spirits ( even Christians), and then you follow the Holy Spirit.

Sent from my LS670 using LS670


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## disgtgyal (Dec 10, 2011)

What stood out to me are a few things... the church prayed with you and your husband, they were in agreement in the beginning, but when God opened a door for you guys they're like nah that's the wrong one. Secondly you said your husband tried through his own efforts to get promoted, but hasn't until now. IMO God may have done things this way so you and your husband can see the true nature and heart of your pastor and church elders and maybe find greater peace with leaving, showing you unequivocally He wants you guys to move. I say to you and your what door God opens, no man shuts and what door God shuts, no man open... walk into your season. 

Sent from my LG-P925 using LG-P925


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## Amour (Dec 10, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> Even David and his men plucked wheat heads on the Sabbath.  So did Jesus and the disciples.  You owe your soul to G-d first.  No organization can claim to own you.  You belong to the spiritual Church first.  You are supposed to worship in communion with other believers.  But you are not held and they cannot hold you.
> 
> Please don't take this the wrong way, but is this a black church?  I ask because sometimes, black folks don't like to see others excel when they feel stuck.  They should be elated for your family.  $$ lost, huh?  Well, they should trust G-d to replace the members lost.  I mean, what are they going to do, tell you you are hell-bound for moving on?  Sounds a bit cultist to me.  Lack of approval....you get approval for getting baptised, for getting married (all within the law of G-d), for becoming a priest etc. ...you don't need church approval to work a job.



The church is a mixed, predominantly white church.


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## Amour (Dec 10, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> What stood out to me are a few things... the church prayed with you and your husband, they were in agreement in the beginning, but when God opened a door for you guys they're like nah that's the wrong one. Secondly you said your husband tried through his own efforts to get promoted, but hasn't until now. IMO God may have done things this way so you and your husband can see the true nature and heart of your pastor and church elders and maybe find greater peace with leaving, showing you unequivocally He wants you guys to move. I say to you and your what door God opens, no man shuts and what door God shuts, no man open... walk into your season.
> 
> Sent from my LG-P925 using LG-P925



Thanks for this!

We joined this church because of pressure from our previous church (the parent/sister church) to help this one grow and become established. Since our move, we have not felt inspired or equipped; to ourselves it was stifling our growth and journey.

Thanks again ladies, I think God has more for us, than where we are at now.


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## SweetNic_JA (Dec 10, 2011)

My SO said that maybe your hubby is a bank roller in the church and that's why the pastor doesn't want you to leave. He also states that God can work on you WHEREVER you go! If you restrict God's work to a single pastor or single congregation - that is idolatry. God is not confined to a congregation, a geographical region or to a pastor.


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## Amour (Dec 10, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> RUN  Ferris.... Run....
> 
> Run and do not look back as did Lot's wife.  Too much salt is in the heart of these leaders.
> 
> ...



Thanks Shimmie, this means soo much to me


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## SelahOco (Dec 10, 2011)

Prophesy is supposed to confirm what god had already laid on your heart.  I don't believe god sends new messages to people without first telling you.

Follow the peace of God.  Hearing this story really makes me mad.  The pastor is an overseer but you and your dh belong to god.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 10, 2011)

If I were you, OP, get your home set up in your new city, move all of your stuff and abruptly leave without alerting them.  Juts up and move.  No "goodbyes" or anything like that.  You've got to get control of your emotions and spirituality and pray that G-d sends you to the right Church because as it stands, you and yours are very much in danger of falling into a cult.  Please allow no one else to make your family decisions.


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## Honi (Dec 10, 2011)

Initial promptings telling you to do something comes from the Spririt. That is what you should follow. Not some pastor with a hidden agenda.

Congrats on the promotion.

Now get packin'


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## FlyyBohemian (Dec 10, 2011)

I agree with the OPs. It doesn't sound right to me.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 11, 2011)

There are certain responsibilities a pastor has to his congregants and vice versa, even if these elders are operating in a jezebel spirit I don't think that they just just up and leave without a word...

they may not get the 'release' they desire  but as members of that church they *should* say that they are leaving and why, having respect for the pastor and the office that he holds is scriptural and they should  make every effort to keep peace







Guitarhero said:


> If I were you, OP, get your home set up in your new city, move all of your stuff and abruptly leave without alerting them.  Juts up and move.  No "goodbyes" or anything like that.  You've got to get control of your emotions and spirituality and pray that G-d sends you to the right Church because as it stands, you and yours are very much in danger of falling into a cult.  Please allow no one else to make your family decisions.


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## Laela (Dec 11, 2011)

Amein...everything ought to be done decently and in order, esp when dealing with members of the Body of Christ...  

Amour, it's good that you can fellowship with other believers and ask their opinions. However, I encourage you to please be sure that you leave that church in the right spirit, as Shimmie mentioned, else it will affect you adversely. _'See ya, don't wanna be ya'_ will harm you, not anyone else. 





Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> There are certain responsibilities a pastor has to his congregants and vice versa, even if these elders are operating in a jezebel spirit I don't think that they just just up and leave without a word...
> 
> they may not get the 'release' they desire  but as members of that church they *should* say that they are leaving and why, having respect for the pastor and the office that he holds is scriptural and they should  make every effort to keep peace


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## Guitarhero (Dec 11, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> There are certain responsibilities a pastor has to his congregants and vice versa, even if these elders are operating in a jezebel spirit I don't think that they just just up and leave without a word...
> 
> they may not get the 'release' they desire  but as members of that church they *should* say that they are leaving and why, having respect for the pastor and the office that he holds is scriptural and they should  make every effort to keep peace



Why not? They sound like a cult making the OP and her husband feel they "owe" the pastorship their livelihood.  If you change, then change.  Better to leave quietly without fanfare than alert somebody WHERE you are moving and having them harass you over it.  Respect goes both ways.  Keeping peace is removing yourself from a dangerous situation.  What on earth do they "owe" this church?  Sure, be spiritual, but common sense goes a long way.


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## JayAnn0513 (Dec 11, 2011)

Amour said:


> Thanks for this!
> 
> We joined this church because of pressure from our previous church (the parent/sister church) to help this one grow and become established. Since our move, we have not felt inspired or equipped; to ourselves it was stifling our growth and journey.
> 
> Thanks again ladies, I think God has more for us, than where we are at now.




Oh yes! I remember that too. I'm sorry but that didn't set right with me either. What denomination church is this?


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## JayAnn0513 (Dec 11, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> There are certain responsibilities a pastor has to his congregants and vice versa, even if these elders are operating in a jezebel spirit I don't think that they just just up and leave without a word...
> 
> they may not get the 'release' they desire  but as members of that church they *should* say that they are leaving and why, having respect for the pastor and the office that he holds is scriptural and they should  make every effort to keep peace



In most cases I would completely agree, but remembering how they were basically forced to join this church by their previous church I believe keeping the peace would be best achieved by making a quiet exit.


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## Laela (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't see where anyone here, certainly not me, is advocating having a big old party at the church and giving out their addresses to everyone and information on their next move to the entire church.  That's not wise.

Yes, they could leave "quietly' but peaceable, with the help of the Holy Spirit. God already told us vengeance belongs to Him. That's not being spiritual, it's being wise by allowing God to be God.

If they were forced to join one church  [OP please correct me if I'm wrong. ], then they are allowing others to dictate their actions.

The* power is within each of us *to do the right thing and not allow anyone to force us to do anything we don't want to do, especially something wrong. Certainly, God won't force us.... So if they leave choose to leave the wrong way, God won't interfere with their will to do so. It's their choice.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 11, 2011)

I believe the true question is, why is leaving quietly the "wrong" way, as though doing so is against G-d?  Please provide a scripture because I'm not comprehending why anyone would think they owe them anything at all.  Shaking dust off sandals...a sign of separateness and piety.  There's something more insidious going on behind their actions (pastor).  

Mt 10:16

I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

Of course, be cunning and smart but not injurious.  In this case, self-preservation might be warranted to cut off all communication.  Only they will know, as we are all aware.  One can only provide advice.


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 11, 2011)

I think that OP and husband should go to the pastor and let him know of their decision. This is not to get permission. They are not getting permission, they are just making their leaders aware of their decision. I don't think it is necessary to just leave without saying anything. 

By going to the leaders, this may show the leaders how to respect the decisions of their congregants. The OP and husband seem like respectful people and this is a way to show respect to others, even when you don't agree on certain things.

I think that the leaders are doing these things because they are looking at the natural. They are worried about whether the church will grow, is God really in this? Members in the church can be a good sign to leaders, especially those that add to the ministry. The leaders need to trust God and not members or numbers.


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## thecurlycamshow (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm not understanding. You and your husband prayer to God for counsel so why are you now considering man (aka the elder) approval?  You both need to listen to God.  You asked Him and He answered but now you're doubting because of what someone in the church says.  The only advice I have is for you both to go back, speak to God, trust in Him, and follow His plan.  Many blessings on your decision sis.


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## Shimmie (Dec 11, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> * I think that OP and husband should go to the pastor and let him know of their decision. This is not to get permission. They are not getting permission, they are just making their leaders aware of their decision. I don't think it is necessary to just leave without saying anything. *
> 
> *By going to the leaders, this may show the leaders how to respect the decisions of their congregants. The OP and husband seem like respectful people and this is a way to show respect to others, even when you don't agree on certain things.*
> 
> I think that the leaders are doing these things because they are looking at the natural. They are worried about whether the church will grow, is God really in this? Members in the church can be a good sign to leaders, especially those that add to the ministry. The leaders need to trust God and not members or numbers.



Exactly Health&hair28 ...   Thank you so much for sharing this, for it is extremely vital.  Extremely.   You are totally on point with God's Word. 

God's Word says that we are to do things in decency and order...   (I Cor 14:40)

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints... (I Cor 14:33)

They cannot leave 'begrudgingly' or with an Elders and Church Leaders by leaving with a proper 'heart', as they would any family member.    

The only thing this Elder did was 'disagree' with their leaving and used spiritural 'Blackmail' (manipulation) to screen his true feelings.  This is something that 'All' humans do in one form or another be it with or without intent or with or without being initially aware of what they are doing.  

Even when we know God has spoken and we know that this Elder is incorrect, there's an old saying that will always ring true and bear the 'fruit' thereof, _ "Two wrongs don't make a right".  _    However, as God Word says,  _Love covers a mulititude of sins.  _

 And ........ it truly does.   Look what God's love did for all of our sins...

Now if the Elder and the Church Leaders as well as the members, reject the loving farewell of OP and Hubbie, well that's okay.   Love must stlll expressed and held fast on their part so that the blessings of God will not be hindered as they move on.   



I'm tagging Amour, just in case....Hubbie may need this.


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## Shimmie (Dec 11, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> There are certain responsibilities a pastor has to his congregants and vice versa, even if these elders are operating in a jezebel spirit I don't think that they just just up and leave without a word...
> 
> they may not get the 'release' they desire  but as members of that church they *should* say that they are leaving and why, having respect for the pastor and the office that he holds is scriptural and they should  make every effort to keep peace





Laela said:


> Amein...everything ought to be done decently and in order, esp when dealing with members of the Body of Christ...
> 
> Amour, it's good that you can fellowship with other believers and ask their opinions. However, I encourage you to please be sure that you leave that church in the right spirit, as Shimmie mentioned, else it will affect you adversely. _'See ya, don't wanna be ya'_ will harm you, not anyone else.





Laela said:


> I don't see where anyone here, certainly not me, is advocating having a big old party at the church and giving out their addresses to everyone and information on their next move to the entire church.  That's not wise.
> 
> Yes, they could leave "quietly' but peaceable, with the help of the Holy Spirit. God already told us vengeance belongs to Him. That's not being spiritual, it's being wise by allowing God to be God.
> 
> ...



Laela and Iwanthealthyhair67   I was reading the posts from the bottom up (latest to earliest).   I just saw both of your posts.   

As I shared with Health&hair28, as in her post,  so are both of you totally on point   .   We're not to hold the spirit of strife, and stife would definitely be the spirit of operation if Amour and Hubbie left the church without a proper farewell, otherwise that same spirit will follow them wherever they go and it will 'meet' them at the new destination and assert its self in their new life.

Because that 'spirit of stife' (resentment of being opposed), was a part of their 'baggage', it will in turn pop up in a ready and willing vessel who may be their neighbor, the people their deal with in obtaining a new home, and most of all, let us not forget.... the NEW JOB!   Come on!   That's the biggest arena and platform for this type of spirit to reside and have full carte' blanche' to operate.   

As long as they properly go to the Elders / Leaders and greet them farewell with love... then love will follow them with even the most difficult of people in their new journey.


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## HWAY (Dec 11, 2011)

Amour, please ask your husband to pray with you before meeting with your elders and please continue to pray for your husband so that follows God's will.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 11, 2011)

common sense it not always scriptural but having respect for authority is...

the right thing to do is pray about and if possible leave at peace, you don't have to be in agreement with someone to live peaceably...






Guitarhero said:


> Why not? They sound like a cult making the OP and her husband feel they "owe" the pastorship their livelihood.  If you change, then change.  Better to leave quietly without fanfare than alert somebody WHERE you are moving and having them harass you over it.  Respect goes both ways.  Keeping peace is removing yourself from a dangerous situation.  What on earth do they "owe" this church?  Sure, be spiritual, but common sense goes a long way.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm reminded of David and Saul, everything that Saul did to David, David still loved and respected him as well as his office as king...


as believers there is much to learn about submission, respect for authority etc.,


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## Sweet C (Dec 11, 2011)

I would definitely fast b/f making any decision.  Some red flags definitely raise in my spirit in regards to what the elders told you, but still take it to God and allow Him to order your steps in regards to this promotion and in regards to your current church home.  I don't want you to automatically assume that b/c he is finally gotten this promotion that it is of God.  Me and my husband have gotten so many offers to leave the place where we are it isnt even funny.  But we KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that though where we are may seem like a barren place, God has us here for preparation in ministry.  So that is my prayer for you OP and your spouse that you be in the place and position to where you both can be developed into who God is calling you both to be.  If this promotion is getting you to that place, then hey to God be the glory.  If not, then hey still to God be the glory.  But seek God for instruction on the promotion as well whether or not to stay in your current church home.


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## aribell (Dec 11, 2011)

What Shimmie said about leaving on bad terms releasing negative spirits into your life has been true in my experience.

A couple of years ago I left a church under bad terms.  I guess people would call it that, but essentially, the music minister deeply offended me and I saw that things were not going to work out with that church.  I wrote him a letter (not hateful), returned my things, and haven't gone back to the church since.  I left in that manner because it was clear that he would not recognize the problem with his attitude, there were other things that I found to be clearly ungodly, and honestly, there was nothing to discuss.  I had never done anything like that before, but allowed my anger and embarrassment at being disrespected drive my actions.

As it turns out, I had not one, but two temp jobs after that that I ended up having to leave on bad terms.  It was really strange because up till then I had a pretty great record with respect to my work history and relationship with employers.  Neither situation was entirely my fault (like the situation with the music minister at the church), but nevertheless, I definitely struggled for a minute after having left that church because it seemed that a force was working to tear things down in my life with respect to jobs, ministry, and even relationships. That entire next year was a year of burnt bridges.    And I knew it was spiritual because it was so uncharacteristic of my life up till that point.  I think that spirit of opposition had been attempting to have its way before then, but by giving into my anger, I opened the door.  It's taken a lot to get things back in balance.

Thanks Shimmie While I don't think people need to overthink or overspiritualize such decisions, we do have to stay mindful of the spiritual realities behind every situation.


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## FlyyBohemian (Dec 11, 2011)

nicola.kirwan said:


> What Shimmie said about leaving on bad terms releasing negative spirits into your life has been true in my experience.
> 
> A couple of years ago I left a church under bad terms.  I guess people would call it that, but essentially, the music minister deeply offended me and I saw that things were not going to work out with that church.  I wrote him a letter (not hateful), returned my things, and haven't gone back to the church since.  I left in that manner because it was clear that he would not recognize the problem with his attitude, there were other things that I found to be clearly ungodly, and honestly, there was nothing to discuss.  I had never done anything like that before, but allowed my anger and embarrassment at being disrespected drive my actions.
> 
> ...



I was offended by a minister too. It was a clique that I was no longer welcomed. He pastored a church I was raised in. I was advised to write him an e-mail and report him for the sake of my own self respect. However, I decided not to. I left it behind me and God has opened doors for me that I never thought he would. Sometimes it's just best to be still and let life play out.


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## Shimmie (Dec 11, 2011)

nicola.kirwan said:


> What Shimmie said about leaving on bad terms releasing negative spirits into your life has been true in my experience.
> 
> A couple of years ago I left a church under bad terms.  I guess people would call it that, but essentially, the music minister deeply offended me and I saw that things were not going to work out with that church.  I wrote him a letter (not hateful), returned my things, and haven't gone back to the church since.  I left in that manner because it was clear that he would not recognize the problem with his attitude, there were other things that I found to be clearly ungodly, and honestly, there was nothing to discuss.  I had never done anything like that before, but allowed my anger and embarrassment at being disrespected drive my actions.
> 
> ...



Thanks Nicola     You so right about not over spirtualizing everything.     I'm still learning that it's really not about the 'person' or the 'people' that have offended me.   Instead it's a learning tool or a 'hindering tool', something for me to allow the Holy Spirit to show me what's going on.  

"Offenses can do one of two things that we allow.  They can make us 'bitter' (vengeful) or 'better' (forgiving).    I'm striving daily towards the 'better'.   It seems that where we are 'placed' to work, becomes the biggest arena to 'test' and develop our 'forgiving virtues'.   It deals with our survival, our means for survival... our income.  The struggle is there to try and intimidate us into being passive or forcibly submissive, which easlly breeds resentment, strife, not to mention stress.   Once we shut the doors to this spirit, nothing that happens can affect us.     I'm still learning to shut the doors....


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## Guitarhero (Dec 12, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> common sense it not always scriptural but having respect for authority is...
> 
> the right thing to do is pray about and if possible leave at peace, you don't have to be in agreement with someone to live peaceably...



But I never advocated NOT having respect for authority, which you have not said, just making it clear.  The authority, btw, is Christ's, not the pastor's, which we all know.  This must be a very, very small congregation.  Red flag....cult-like manipulation.  Sometimes, you do not stick around to be nice.  Biblical is also turning the other direction when in danger of soul.  This is what I picked up on from the OP, not the little extras.  Anytime someone is so distressed at making a family decision in this type of situation, they are in some kind of emotional/spiritual danger.  It would be different if they were the music ministers, deacons, etc.  But if simply a member of the congregation, you make an exit...that's what I would do without thinking for a moment that I wouldn't be in line with G-d's word.  I think one needs to be very careful making value judgments about what is biblical and not biblical in this type of case.  G-d has equipped us with a functioning warning system and common sense guards it.  Wisdom strengthens it.  I know the rules of my own church and there are none that tell me I cannot leave in any given moment.  I'm concerned about them.

In previous threads about people leaving to find their preferred church, advice given was to pray.  Understandable.  Other advice was asking G-d if they should leave.  Understandable.  The advice I never agreed with was the one just like in this thread.  When you are uncomfortable, you do not ask any human permission.  It's not about burning bridges, it's about sanity and safety of your soul.  Sometimes, you dust off your sandals...no fanfare, no bad attitudes, you remove yourself.  As we all know, the OP's family will decide.  I only ask lurkers in similar situations to not fall into such an ordeal.  Anytime you feel bad for leaving, moving on or feel compelled to go through long hours of prayer to make a decision to leave a church where you are being coerced to stay in some way, that is the biggest  cult warning sign on the planet.  Common sense...G-d-given.  We've been conditioned to believe otherwise and if we look at the horror stories out there, the one thing people have said over and over again...."I wish I had listened to my conscience."


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind...we obviously disagree...


having respect for authority means not leaving w/o saying that you have left 'Elders' are authority figures in church.....a church is not impersonal it's also a family, being a part of the body of Christ you do not up and leave without saying that you have left regardless if you and the elders are in not in agreement...


and yes, common sense is God given however, he often asks us to do things that defy common sense


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 12, 2011)

Amen! On this!..

Let me give a testimony

The reason why I said in my first post, I wouldnt speak against the people at the church becuase I didnt know the whole situation was because this:

About 3 years ago I was looking for a job..I applied everywhere I couldnt find a one!!! The church was praying for me, my pastor was too..So i get offered a job offer, I was going to be making about 60k, a year...So i prayed about it, but sometimes when my desire is really strong, I ALWAYS get counsel because alot of times when you desire something your flesh can speak really loud lol..So i went to my pastor and he said "Something doesnt sit right in my spirit about this...I dont think you should take this job.." Man i was sooooo hurt, I cried..But I respect my pastor as a man of God, but I wanted God to show me himself..So the SAME DAY...my new "boss" sent me a very sexual text message concerning my body"..That was my sign from God! He was allowing me see the intentions of that rascal.The bible says, God maketh rich and added no sorrow! I didnt want to go to work at a place where my boss didnt respect me and looked at me like that. The fact he sent me the text showed me he had no respect for me! So i didnt take it..but wait Im not done!!

about a month later...I was offered another job, making more money!!
I got counsel again...My pastor said..."Dont take this job, its another trick."...So this time i listened!! I didnt take it..Tell me why after this happening..I read in the newspaper that guy who was going to hire me, got arrested for sexually assualting his assistant, which was the same position he offered me!!! 

My pastor was right again!

My pastor told me that God was going to bless me, but I had to be tried first. Well now I work in the Human Resource department for a Contracting company for Chemical Oil Refineries...I've been here for 2 yrs I love my job!! I get to talk to yall all day 

So im saying all this, sometimes the leaders dont be "hating"...they really hear from God...but in THIS case, i dont know...thats why we have to know God for ourselves.




Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> *common sense it not always scriptural but having respect for authority is...*
> 
> the right thing to do is pray about and if possible leave at peace, you don't have to be in agreement with someone to live peaceably...


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 12, 2011)

Can I get a praise God up in here...girl thank you !!!

Unfortuantely the majority of these pastors and church people  have not been representing God as they should we've given the body of Christ a black eye for the world to see...but we do have some true men and women God still around, who know God and aint no fake...

My pastor and a (prophet from another state) told me that I was going to get a promotion and I did, I beleive them to be true oracles of God that doesn't say that I'm always in agreement with everything that comes out of their mouths (what I don;t understand or disagree with I go straight to God) they encourage us to search the scriptures and encourage us to have our own relationship with God, that way we know the voice of God for ourselves...




Alicialynn86 said:


> Amen! On this!..
> 
> Let me give a testimony
> 
> ...


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## Laela (Dec 12, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> "Offenses can do one of two things that we allow.  They can make us 'bitter' (vengeful) or 'better' (forgiving).    I'm striving daily towards the 'better'.


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 12, 2011)

Praise God! Thank you!

I know sometimes when our leaders gives us advice or instruction we feel that they "all up in our business" but the purpose of a shephred is to lead his sheep! My pastor has stop me from hitting my head soooo many times!  I take what my pastor has to say to heart, he is like a father to me..but at the same time, I seek God and learn of God, because my salvation isnt in my pastor but in Jesus Christ. Thats why people cant be hopping up and joining church because they feel excited for a moment, but they have to seek God and where He would have them to be..because your shephred is going to be the one feeding your soul....and he is responsible for it..


**disclaimer...this post isnt for the OP just a general view...*****




Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> Can I get a praise God up in here...girl thank you !!!
> 
> Unfortuantely the majority of these pastors and church people have not been representing God as they should we've given the body of Christ a black eye for the world to see...but we do have some true men and women God still around, who know God and aint no fake...
> 
> My pastor and a (prophet from another state) told me that I was going to get a promotion and I did, I beleive them to be true oracles of God that doesn't say that I'm always in agreement with everything that comes out of their mouths (what I don;t understand or disagree with I go straight to God) they encourage us to search the scriptures and encourage us to have our own relationship with God, that way we know the voice of God for ourselves...


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 12, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Praise God! Thank you!
> 
> I know sometimes when our leaders gives us advice or instruction we feel that they "all up in our business" but the purpose of a shephred is to lead his sheep! My pastor has stop me from hitting my head soooo many times! I take what my pastor has to say to heart, he is like a father to me..but at the same time, I seek God and learn of God, because my salvation isnt in my pastor but in Jesus Christ. Thats why people cant be hopping up and joining church because they feel excited for a moment, but they have to seek God and where He would have them to be..because your shephred is going to be the one feeding your soul....and he is responsible for it..
> 
> ...


 

Good to hear that you guys, Alicialynn86 and iwanthealthyhair67 have had some good experiences with your pastors. But me on the other had I wont put another pastor or leader on a pedestal. Leaders are only to do what the bible says, and that is help mature people in Christ. People are not to stay under the thumb of the pastor or turn into little children. Pastors should be raising the body up to do what they do and that is lead others to the One True Shephard and maturity in Christ.

I have seen and suffered much at the hands of leaders, so I will not ever put another leader up too high. And I'm talking about deep hurt that took almost 2 years in the healing process. They are not the mouth of God for my life. The Holy Spirit and the Word of God are that to me and if they are speaking from that source, then it is well. If they are pushing me into *THEM* then red flags start going off because  guess what pastors, it is not about you or your church but Jesus Christ and Him being glorifed.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 12, 2011)

Sorry to hear that you've had such horrible experiences, there are 'real' men and women of God out there, I pray you find such a church...

Faith in God confidence in man, thank God that you have not lost faith, many people have been driven to that point where they don't want to see another church or pastor again and this is why my prayer continues for the body of Christ that we may walk worthy of the vocation that we are called...


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 12, 2011)

The problem is alot of "Pastors", have not been called or sent to pastor..they have made themselves into that position


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## Laela (Dec 12, 2011)

As they say "Is your spiritual leader the "went one" or the "sent one"?


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 12, 2011)

try the spirits, check the fruit and go to God in fasting prayer your soul is worth that much ...


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 12, 2011)

...

Do you know you can go online now and get minister certification?? Scary!!



Laela said:


> As they say "Is your spiritual leader the "went one" or the "sent one"?


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 12, 2011)

^^yes and your right it is plenty scary


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 12, 2011)

Thanks ladies and some of the people that experienced this stuff are back in the world. 

Also, Im in a church. The pastor is humble and wont allow himself to be put up high. He even addresses church abuse from the pulpit. Many have come to his church. He lifts up Christ and the Word. Also, a word was spoken over him that many would come that have been bruised. And that God was going to use him to bring back the integrity of the office of a pastor. So yes, there are still real leaders out there.

Sent from my LS670 using LS670


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 12, 2011)

yes and Amen a similar words was spoken over my pastors life ...sounds like they have smiliar qualities of humility ...


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## Amour (Dec 13, 2011)

Thanks ladies for all your words of advice etc, I really appreciate it.

Its hard to comment on specific points as I'm on my phone, but I've been so blessed by this thread and the comments.

We went to church on Sunday, and it was really strange as the pastor addressed the potential move in a positive way as though he didn't say the thing before which was strange and awkard. It was though maybe he had been told he had made a mistake in what he said to us, so he just bypassed it as though nothing was wrong. 

We do believe in having respect in our elders, and look to them; but to be honest he doesn't seem serious in what he is saying to us; its hard for us to rely on what he says as he doesn't come from a steady platform.

He wants to meet with us, this week or next which we may do; to express our stance; to allow us to move forward amciably.

Thanks again ladies


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 13, 2011)

brace yourself spiritually for the meeting you and DH may want to go on a short fast, go prayed up if he's unstable as you say he just might switch on you...I wish you both God's best...



Amour said:


> Thanks ladies for all your words of advice etc, I really appreciate it.
> 
> Its hard to comment on specific points as I'm on my phone, but I've been so blessed by this thread and the comments.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Dec 13, 2011)

Amour said:


> Thanks ladies for all your words of advice etc, I really appreciate it.
> 
> Its hard to comment on specific points as I'm on my phone, but I've been so blessed by this thread and the comments.
> 
> ...



Your Pastor is human and God is dealing with him in matters of his faith and the call upon his life.    Pray for your Pastor's strength and for the strength of your husband.   I have a 'feeling' that you and your husband have been a great inspiration to your current Pastor which is why he responded as he did earlier.  He wasn't ready to say 'goodbye'.    But that's all a part of life.

God's blessings are upon you.   Therefore, you and Hubbie have more than enough love and grace to extend to your current Pastor to strengthen him to release you  as you and Hubbie enter into the Destiny God has for you.


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## Amour (Dec 14, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Your Pastor is human and God is dealing with him in matters of his faith and the call upon his life.    Pray for your Pastor's strength and for the strength of your husband.   I have a 'feeling' that you and your husband have been a great inspiration to your current Pastor which is why he responded as he did earlier.  He wasn't ready to say 'goodbye'.    But that's all a part of life.
> 
> God's blessings are upon you.   Therefore, you and Hubbie have more than enough love and grace to extend to your current Pastor to strengthen him to release you  as you and Hubbie enter into the Destiny God has for you.



Thanks Shimme 

@ iwanthealthyhair67 I think we do need to have a fast about the situation and remain in constant prayer


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