# Boycotting Church



## blazingthru (Oct 29, 2011)

so our music minstry is all messed up right now, we got praise singers or whatever you call it that cannot sing but we value the heart that wants to serve and we have great wonderful choirs but................... None of them are singing because someone in the church is causing a rift.   So other members of the choirs are boycotting the church.   I haven't been to service for a while, been living here and there due to some damage to my house and so I am finally back to service regulary and I was trying to figure out what is going on and I hear some members or boycotting and I was shocked. Shocked, why would any member boycott their service. I am so confused by the hearts of these people there should be a meeting and everything should come out in the opening.  So of course I am getting ready to make some phone calls and find out whats going on and see if there can be a church wide meeting. 

What is so off is we were discussing unity in the church and here it is black and white people are not coming because of the music, for real? i had a member strut because we have two service, which I do not like, and the morning service is all hyms and nothing but hymns and she is so happy and will do her best to make sure all of services is like that and my opinion is she needs to move on. 

*As a member of service would you sit back and say nothing or do you think that this should be address, also what do you think about boycotting in the lords house*.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 30, 2011)

Why is the 'head' allowing this to happen ...


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 30, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> *As a member of service would you sit back and say nothing or do you think that this should be address, also what do you think about boycotting in the lords house*.



The Apostle Paul had to address this and he simply told them to stop the foolishness and to move on with the Lord's business.   So boycotting in the House of the Lord is not acceptable.   

We can even take this back to Moses when Miriam and Aaron wanted to rise up and cause a rift, the result was God called them aside and Miriam became leperous until she got her act together.

What happening here is a battle of the 'wills' and the play for power

Instead of this foolishness, the Pastor needs to put an end to it and set the order of the House according to God's vision that has been given to him, if indeed God has given him a vision.  

Bottomline, if people don't like what's happening then leave.   Just leave and allow God to place them where they belong.    For them to behave like this is grieving to the Holy Spirit and downright silly and unnecessary.

ETA:  Just read your post again for clarity....   This is not a Church.  It's a circus.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 30, 2011)

boycotting is a blatant act of disobedience, they need to go so that they can flourish in the courts of their God elsewhere...


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Oct 31, 2011)

Um yea thats foolishness..If a problem arises and there is a disagreement, then the church needs to call a fast and go into prayer to get answers and solutions from God. Abandoning the problem dont solve it.  only make it worse. And the Pastor needs to address his flock immediately because the bible says a house divided against itself cant stand. It sounds  like alot of "fleshiness" going on and no one is referring to the word of God.

And about the people not being able sing, thats crazy. We have some people that can't sing all that well, but the anointing be so thick on them that you cant even tell...lol..i know it sounds crazy but im serious...


People nit pick some many things it ridiculous.....


I would bring this issue to may Pastor, and if he isnt addressing it, I would began seeking God on another church ASAP!


How long has this been going on???


----------



## Laela (Oct 31, 2011)

This is what I want to know also.... 


Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> Why is the 'head' allowing this to happen ...


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Oct 31, 2011)

If i'm understand the original post correctly, this sounds like something that happened in my church.    We had a huge issue come up with the Minister of music.  He was unfairly terminated.  There was a huge church meeting and I saw a side of the deacons and pastor that left a very bad taste in my mouth.  Not to mention that in the process our choir had to go through numerous interim directors.  Even now they don't have a permanent director.  I finally left the choir because i didn't like how things were being handled.  Even now i go to that church sparingly because the things I saw bothered me.  So to answer the question, I don't see it as a boycott, but I think that if the members are unhappy it should be addressed.  I think too often we are made to feel that we should ignore unpleasant things and just suck it up and continue going to church to "defeat satan."  I get the sentiment behind that, but I also think that means too many bad things go unchecked.  And the purpose of church is to provide fellowship.  If members are feeling some kind of way, an effort should be made to work things out to bring them back into the fold.


----------



## blazingthru (Oct 31, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Um yea thats foolishness..If a problem arises and there is a disagreement, then the church needs to call a fast and go into prayer to get answers and solutions from God. Abandoning the problem dont solve it.  only make it worse. And the Pastor needs to address his flock immediately because the bible says a house divided against itself cant stand. It sounds like alot of "fleshiness" going on and no one is referring to the word of God.
> 
> And about the people not being able sing, thats crazy. We have some people that can't sing all that well, but the anointing be so thick on them that you cant even tell...lol..i know it sounds crazy but im serious...
> 
> ...


 
Well I was on vacation in August and I was coming sporidically in September and the fire was in september and so I missed about a little more then two months but I was coming here and there when I could.

This past weekend I was like this is the second week the "praise singers" was up there and it just didn't sound like it should and who were all those people and I was like oh okay what is going on around here and I overheard that the members and leaders of the choirs are boycotting and I was literally stunned. Pastor pulled me to the side to ask me what was going on with me, that I wasn't myself lately true, You'll just don't know what a sister been through, but anywhoo I was a little upset that I was looking like what I was dealing with I thought I looked fine. I guess not but I didn't get a chance to ask him what was going on up in there because I didn't have my finger on it at the time. Since we have two services now I thought that was the disconnect, but I heard otherwise and I been trying to reach people to find out the real truth and then I was bringing it to pastors attention. so I really do not know how long this has been going on. I hope they get it together.


----------



## Laela (Oct 31, 2011)

WHY is it usually the _Music Ministry_ that's at the center of discord at churches? (I'm speaking from experience here)... :scratchch:

So ... the church services suffer from praise and worship all because Brother Deacon George didn't get to sing his solo and because he didn't get to sing his solo, he took most of the instruments for the band with him to prove a point. Since it's also HIS keyboard..the 'band' is now unplugged and is one drum set with no player..only the bass guitarist and 2 singers are left (because Sister Priscilla is Brother Deacon's George's wife, Sister Rebekkah is his sister and they were the sopranos; Brother Jeremy, who is bass, is his brother-in-law and needs to get his car fixed (since Brother Deacon George is also his mechanic and he doesn't want to make him mad  ); the two little girls who ushers belong to Brother Deacon George; Sister Rudy is his accountant and an usher and empathized with Brother Deacon George about that solo...

it only takes ONE.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2011)

Ya'll know that the area of 'Worship' is where the enemy is going to attack!  

*"But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship  the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship  him." *John 4:23

Now is the time for everyone being on their faces and seek out the Father for direction.  If the members keep their eyes on the people and what they are NOT doing, it gives the enemy power to bring destruction in the church by division in the body.

My advice....keep your eyes on the One....for He is the Prize!


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2011)

Laela said:


> WHY is it usually the _Music Ministry_ that's at the center of discord at churches? (I'm speaking from experience here)... :scratchch:
> 
> So ... the church services suffer from praise and worship all because Brother Deacon George didn't get to sing his solo and because he didn't get to sing his solo, he took most of the instruments for the band with him to prove a point. Since it's also HIS keyboard..the 'band' is now unplugged and is one drum set with no player..only the bass guitarist and 2 singers are left (because Sister Priscilla is Brother Deacon's George's wife, Sister Rebekkah is his sister and they were the sopranos; Brother Jeremy, who is bass, is his brother-in-law and needs to get his car fixed (since Brother Deacon George is also his mechanic and he doesn't want to make him mad  ); the two little girls who ushers belong to Brother Deacon George; Sister Rudy is his accountant and an usher and empathized with Brother Deacon George about that solo...
> 
> it only takes ONE.



It's all about vanity; who gets seen and heard the most.  The spirit of worship is not prevalent, the flesh however is indeed the ruler here.  

It's more about 'Showtime at the Apollo' and not Worship unto Adonai, our Heavenly Father.

Let's be real, most (not ALL) but most who join the choir want to be choir superstars.   They brag about being on the 'Quar' sanging for 'Gee' sus', sanging for the Lawd.    When this spirit is not satisfied, it riles up and the spirit of envy, competition, strife occurs.    

Now what they need to be is each of them 'SAT DOWN'.   Nobody sings.   Get the strife and conflict out of their hearts and then and only then can they be reinstated in the Ministry of Worship.    

Jesus made it plain that when one has an ought with their brother (sister), that they are to take their gift and go and forgive that person and then come back to bring their gifts until the Altar in order for God to receive it. 

No one can return with their gift of singing until their hearts have been 'PROVEN' as forgiven.   And this does not happen in a day or a month.   It takes true repentence and living before God with a loving heart and then and only then can they return to sing.

All of which Nice & Wavy has shared in her post which is the truth.


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Nov 1, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> It's more about 'Showtime at the Apollo' and not Worship unto Adonai, our Heavenly Father.
> 
> Let's be real, most (not ALL) but most who join the choir want to be choir superstars.


You're ignoring that other elephant in the room about why there tends to be so much "mess" within the music ministry.  I know I'm not the only one thinking it...


----------



## Shimmie (Nov 1, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> You're ignoring that other elephant in the room about why there tends to be so much "mess" within the music ministry.  I know I'm not the only one thinking it...



Please share the other elephant with me...


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2011)

I agree Shimmie, SOME people no longer want God to get the glory but them. But God said He will not give his glory to another!! No sir..

At my church, you cant just be in the chior and or praise team or any position until leadership feels you are ready to be in that place. That you are living a life according to the word of God. We have to make sure our sacrifices our pure that we are offering up to God. Some people at their churches may wonder why there is no anointing or the power of God isnt moving there, it because the people who are offering up the sacrifices are not clean before God. I'm not saying everyone has to be perfect for God to receive the praise but it needs to be them of a willing and sincere heart.At my church it's not based on who been there the longest, who can sing the best, who has the best speech but its about who is the most dedicated to God, who is dying out to themselves, who has alliegance and devotion to God.

Yes, Sister Betty Jane sounds like yolanda Adams when she sings, but if there is blatant(she not trying to get it right) strife and envy, she needs to be sat down 

Sometimes we want to be example to the world but we got to start in our house(Churchhouse), being that example. People are only going to do what they see the Pastor let people get away with doing.


My chior director always tells us in rehearsal "I dont care if we got 10 people in this chior, I would rather have 10 with the anoniting who have wanna be here than 50 with no anointing who dont wanna be here"

The anointing comes through obedience and lifestyle.


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Nov 1, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Please share the other elephant with me...



I will send you a pm.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

Sensing is not so much a 'look ' it's a discerning by the spirit so I'm sure you looked fine, but when you are sensitive to the voice of the spirit you are more aware ...



blazingthru said:


> Well I was on vacation in August and I was coming sporidically in September and the fire was in september and so I missed about a little more then two months but I was coming here and there when I could.
> 
> This past weekend I was like this is the second week the "praise singers" was up there and it just didn't sound like it should and who were all those people and I was like oh okay what is going on around here and I overheard that the members and leaders of the choirs are boycotting and I was literally stunned. *Pastor pulled me to the side to ask me what was going on with me, that I wasn't myself lately true, You'll just don't know what a sister been through, but anywhoo I was a little upset that I was looking like what I was dealing with I thought I looked fine.* I guess not but I didn't get a chance to ask him what was going on up in there because I didn't have my finger on it at the time. Since we have two services now I thought that was the disconnect, but I heard otherwise and I been trying to reach people to find out the real truth and then I was bringing it to pastors attention. so I really do not know how long this has been going on. I hope they get it together.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

they shouldn't be deterred the word says where ever or three are gathered ...making a joyful noise does not depend on the lead singer or the piano infact it don't depend on instruments just voices and they don't have to be in key to be joyful... 




Laela said:


> WHY is it usually the _Music Ministry_ that's at the center of discord at churches? (I'm speaking from experience here)... :scratchch:
> 
> So ... the church services suffer from praise and worship all because Brother Deacon George didn't get to sing his solo and because he didn't get to sing his solo, he took most of the instruments for the band with him to prove a point. Since it's also HIS keyboard..the 'band' is now unplugged and is one drum set with no player..only the bass guitarist and 2 singers are left (because Sister Priscilla is Brother Deacon's George's wife, Sister Rebekkah is his sister and they were the sopranos; Brother Jeremy, who is bass, is his brother-in-law and needs to get his car fixed (since Brother Deacon George is also his mechanic and he doesn't want to make him mad  ); the two little girls who ushers belong to Brother Deacon George; Sister Rudy is his accountant and an usher and empathized with Brother Deacon George about that solo...
> 
> it only takes ONE.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

This still goes back to the head, sometimes we depend on people because they have certain 'talents', we allow them to have 'free rein' knowing that they may not be living up to the mark because they can do a particular thing well and at the same time these people destroying the church.

If the leader of the congregation 'senses' something it's up to him to fix it as he has to give an account at the end of the day for every soul in his care ...

At my church my pastor will stop the music if something doesn't sound right by the spirit and begin rooting up casting down bind up rebuking etc., but some leaders are too afraid to do this less they offend Deacon George, Sister Priscilla or Brother Jeremy because they don't want them to leave the church and take their drums, piano and bass guitar...

Laela I burrowed some of your people's fictious names and musical instruments, lol


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

Amen and Hallelujah...sounds like my church



Alicialynn86 said:


> I agree Shimmie, SOME people no longer want God to get the glory but them. But God said He will not give his glory to another!! No sir..
> 
> At my church, you cant just be in the chior and or praise team or any position until leadership feels you are ready to be in that place. That you are living a life according to the word of God. We have to make sure our sacrifices our pure that we are offering up to God. Some people at their churches may wonder why there is no anointing or the power of God isnt moving there, it because the people who are offering up the sacrifices are not clean before God. I'm not saying everyone has to be perfect for God to receive the praise but it needs to be them of a willing and sincere heart.At my church it's not based on who been there the longest, who can sing the best, who has the best speech but its about who is the most dedicated to God, who is dying out to themselves, who has alliegance and devotion to God.
> 
> ...


----------



## Laela (Nov 1, 2011)

That was a rhetorical question..lol.... but oh yes....
Music brings harmony... if there is no harmony, there is no balance. God is a God of balance.... those who have the abiity to discern the Enemy's attempts to sow discord in their church will do what is required of them to keep it from happening or even thriving.  



Nice & Wavy said:


> Ya'll know that the area of 'Worship' is where the enemy is going to attack!
> 
> *"But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship  the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship  him." *John 4:23
> 
> ...


----------



## Laela (Nov 1, 2011)

ITA... been there... some of us know how to sing _acapulco_  Glorrrrraaay!!!!




Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> *they shouldn't be deterred* the word says where ever or three are gathered ...making a joyful noise does not depend on the lead singer or the piano infact it don't depend on instruments just voices and they don't have to be in key to be joyful...


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Nov 1, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> If the leader of the congregation 'senses' something it's up to him to fix it as he has to give an account at the end of the day for every soul in his care ...
> 
> At my church my pastor will stop the music if something doesn't sound right by the spirit and begin rooting up casting down bind up rebuking etc., but some leaders are too afraid to do this less they offend Deacon George, Sister Priscilla or Brother Jeremy because they don't want them to leave the church and take their drums, piano and bass guitar...


The only issue with that is that I have seen it get out of hand and out of order.  Even if you are operating in discernment and the Spirit, there should still be order.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

ITA and this happens when there is no respect for authority ...however, if the person who is in authority life is out of order and he is not living up to what the word says he/she will still have my respect in my approach and my response but I will be praying for God to direct me to another church...




nathansgirl1908 said:


> The only issue with that is that I have seen it get out of hand and out of order. Even if you are operating in discernment and the Spirit, there should still be order.


----------



## Laela (Nov 1, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> This still goes back to the head, sometimes we depend on people because they have certain 'talents', we allow them to have 'free rein' knowing that they may not be living up to the mark because they can do a particular thing well and at the same time these people destroying the church.
> 
> If the leader of the congregation 'senses' something it's up to him to fix it as he has to give an account at the end of the day for every soul in his care ...





My pastor did that once.... told them they'd been _out of tune_ the whole service and I know he wasn't talking notes and clefts... 



Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> At my* church my pastor will stop the music if something doesn't sound right *by the spirit and begin rooting up casting down bind up rebuking etc., but some leaders are too afraid to do this less they offend Deacon George, Sister Priscilla or Brother Jeremy because they don't want them to leave the church and take their drums, piano and bass guitar...




 They are in every church.. lol


Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> Laela I burrowed some of your people's fictious names and musical instruments, lol


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2011)

I think Im going to post Paul Washer's "10 indictments of the church"...man its soooo powerful


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

^^please do...


----------



## JeterCrazed (Nov 1, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> so our music minstry is all messed up right now, we got praise singers or whatever you call it that cannot sing but we value the heart that wants to serve and we have great wonderful choirs but................... None of them are singing because someone in the church is causing a rift.   So other members of the choirs are boycotting the church.   I haven't been to service for a while, been living here and there due to some damage to my house and so I am finally back to service regulary and I was trying to figure out what is going on and I hear some members or boycotting and I was shocked. Shocked, why would any member boycott their service. I am so confused by the hearts of these people there should be a meeting and everything should come out in the opening.  So of course I am getting ready to make some phone calls and find out whats going on and see if there can be a church wide meeting.
> 
> What is so off is we were discussing unity in the church and here it is black and white people are not coming because of the music, for real? i had a member strut because we have two service, which I do not like, and the morning service is all hyms and nothing but hymns and she is so happy and will do her best to make sure all of services is like that and my opinion is she needs to move on.
> 
> *As a member of service would you sit back and say nothing or do you think that this should be address, also what do you think about boycotting in the lords house*.



Give a copy of the book, "Ten Stupid Things that Keep Churches from Growing" by Geoff Suratt to the pastor and take 2 steps back. You yourself can sample the book on Amazon Kindle. I tried to broach the subject to my pastor, but people sometimes like rose glasses.

ETA: See. This is y I don't go to church at all.  

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## Laela (Nov 1, 2011)

^^God's Church will always _grow_, JeterCrazed... We see growth sometimes as sheer numbers and not true development for what it is. God is still working, moving in His Church... He will finish what He has started. ITA and understand there is 'churchianity' in America. But that is not a valid excuse to choose not to fellowship with other Believers.  

ALICIALYNN, I'm listening to it now and this stands out for me:

*I will tell you what the problem is. Pastors and preachers don’t know what the Church is. I want you to know that the Church of Jesus Christ in America is beautiful. She is frail at times. She is weak. She is buffeted. She is not perfect, but I want you to know she is broken. She is humbly walking with her God. The problem with you is you don’t know what the Church is.

Today because of the lack of biblical preaching the so called Church is filled up with carnal, wicked people identified with Christianity. And then because of all the goats in the midst of the lambs, the lambs are blamed for all the things the goats are doing and then the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of us.** - PAUL WASHER *


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

Laela is this on the same link you provided perviously???


----------



## Shimmie (Nov 1, 2011)

JeterCrazed said:


> Give a copy of the book, "Ten Stupid Things that Keep Churches from Growing" by Geoff Suratt to the pastor
> 
> *and take 2 steps back. *
> 
> ...



@ the bolded...     It simply made me smile.  

Don't let one Church's mistake keep you away from the blessings of being in the presence of the House of God.  

There are so many wonderful Ministries and Churches.   Don't let one, or even two or ten, stop the blessings of the Lord's House from reaching you.


----------



## Shimmie (Nov 1, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I will send you a pm.



Thanks...


----------



## JeterCrazed (Nov 1, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> @ the bolded...     It simply made me smile.
> 
> Don't let one Church's mistake keep you away from the blessings of being in the presence of the House of God.
> 
> There are so many wonderful Ministries and Churches.   Don't let one, or even two or ten, stop the blessings of the Lord's House from reaching you.



It's been about 10  
Long looooong stories but always catty. My aunt's pastor had to break up an argument between two members happening out loud from two opposite sides of a not-so-small church. 

I just can't do it no more. I listen to the Sunday sermons on Podcast in the peace of my own apartment. 

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## blazingthru (Nov 1, 2011)

JeterCrazed said:


> Give a copy of the book, "Ten Stupid Things that Keep Churches from Growing" by Geoff Suratt to the pastor and take 2 steps back. You yourself can sample the book on Amazon Kindle. I tried to broach the subject to my pastor, but people sometimes like rose glasses.
> 
> ETA: See. This is y I don't go to church at all.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Inspire™


 \


JeterCrazed, I apologize to you because it was a question presented to help me clarify if I am in the wrong in going around trying to find out what was going on.  It was never intended for anyone to be discouraged from attending service, i would never encourage that. I will not be leaving my church, I will do whatever God leads me to do to help build my church up.  If it was not for the body, I don't think I could get through the many trials and crises that keep riding up in my life. God is the center of my life, but being with the people that love the Lord like I do well there is nothing like it really. I need the body as much as I need air.  

Yes the pastor is aware of whats going on. This is what I learned. There are so many people in the Church who think they are the end all, for real, and that the church will crumble without them.  The Church will be hurt at their leaving that is true, but the people of God will continue on. I believe that is what is happening now. I recieved an email leting me know that certian people decided to resign because other people were asked to step down, for some unknown and probably private reason. Well we have like I said, some really wonderful choirs I mean, it really hurts not to hear them anymore but we keep moving foward.  My daughter sings in these groups and she is confused as well. But we press onward. This is not the first time a situation like this has happen, we had a church meeting and members moved on.  Just like that they all left. it was so dumb too. But you know we moved on and continue to grow. I believe that is what is going to happen in this case.


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2011)

Yes it is so good...! I love it, im going to post the text on here when I get home, Im at work right now 

He states that the problem with most churches is , is that they do alot to get people to join, but when they join, they forget about them, its no discipleship involved.I looovvvve Paul Washer.. He is one of the  few mainline stream preachers I listen to.

He also said in this sermon that people just say "The Lord's prayer" and the pastor claims them as saved but he said preachers need to walk up to them later on and say "Are you still being converted, are you still changing"? wwhooooowwhooooo..



Laela said:


> @ALICIALYNN, I'm listening to it now and this stands out for me:
> 
> *I will tell you what the problem is. Pastors and preachers don’t know what the Church is. I want you to know that the Church of Jesus Christ in America is beautiful. She is frail at times. She is weak. She is buffeted. She is not perfect, but I want you to know she is broken. She is humbly walking with her God. The problem with you is you don’t know what the Church is.*
> 
> *Today because of the lack of biblical preaching the so called Church is filled up with carnal, wicked people identified with Christianity. And then because of all the goats in the midst of the lambs, the lambs are blamed for all the things the goats are doing and then the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of us. - PAUL WASHER *


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

blazingthru I feel you at the bolded ...I'm the same way I don't always agree or understand some things that they sometimes do but I take it to the Lord and I know that they truly have a heart for God and for the people of God

Sounds like your Pastor *did do *something about the situation, the Lord will send more people who will do his works not because they are 'talented' or 'gifted' but because they really love HIM..

Like I said in another thread let them go so that they could flourish elsewhere in the courts of their God, but don't wreak havocup in here...



blazingthru said:


> \
> 
> 
> JeterCrazed, I apologize to you because it was a question presented to help me clarify if I am in the wrong in going around trying to find out what was going on. It was never intended for anyone to be discouraged from attending service, i would never encourage that. I will not be leaving my church, I will do whatever God leads me to do to help build my church up. If it was not for the body, I don't think I could get through the many trials and crises that keep riding up in my life.* God is the center of my life, but being with the people that love the Lord like I do well there is nothing like it really. I need the body as much as I need air. *
> ...


----------



## Shimmie (Nov 1, 2011)

JeterCrazed said:


> It's been about 10
> Long looooong stories but always catty. My aunt's pastor had to break up an argument between two members happening out loud from two opposite sides of a not-so-small church.
> 
> I just can't do it no more. I listen to the Sunday sermons on Podcast in the peace of my own apartment.
> ...



I understand the 'Peace', truly I do.   

How about 70 times 7 ?    Where Jesus means, don't give up.


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Nov 1, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> ITA and this happens when there is no respect for authority ...however, if the person who is in authority life is out of order and he is not living up to what the word says he/she will still have my respect in my approach and my response but I will be praying for God to direct me to another church...



When I say out of order, I mean in terms of stopping the service or stopping the choir and starting to "rebuke and cast out." Is that really the correct approach?  I can be in a situation and recognize when I'm dealing with some kind of bad spirit. But I don't have to make it known in every instance and announce what I'm doing. I just immediately start praying.  Some people who do the casting out in such a public manner are putting on a show which in my opinion opens the door for even more chaos and confusion. You can boldly come against something amiss and still retain order.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

in your opinion what time would be most appropriate to correct someone ....just asking 




nathansgirl1908 said:


> When I say out of order, I mean in terms of stopping the service or stopping the choir and starting to "rebuke and cast out." Is that really the correct approach? I can be in a situation and recognize when I'm dealing with some kind of bad spirit. But I don't have to make it known in every instance and announce what I'm doing. I just immediately start praying. Some people who do the casting out in such a public manner are putting on a show which in my opinion opens the door for even more chaos and confusion. You can boldly come against something amiss and still retain order.


----------



## ClassicBeauty (Nov 1, 2011)

Who says they've been boycotting church? Maybe they have just chosen to attend another church for a while. The fact that the original OP has been gone for so long, others may think that she too has been boycotting church. 

In my area, there are churches on every corner. I don't care where you go to church, just as long as they are praching about Jesus and building people based on the word of God. People leave churches all the time for many different reasons. If there's a lot of drama, I don't blame them for wanting to spend their Sunday mornings at a more peaceful place of worship.


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Nov 1, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> in your opinion what time would be most appropriate to correct someone ....just asking


 I think when it can be done in a manner that isn't hurtful or disruptive.  When we read about Jesus, it seemed to me that He took a firm, yet loving approach.  He was about the business and He wasn't disruptive in the process.  I think we are supposed to follow that lead.  It's not about performing for others to prove how Holy we are or how much we can see and feel in the Spirit realm.   And even though people have different spiritual gifts, some people start trying to operate in a gift they don't have, but one they desire.  And that too can cause things to be out of order.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Nov 1, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> When I say out of order, I mean in terms of stopping the service or stopping the choir and starting to "rebuke and cast out." Is that really the correct approach? I can be in a situation and recognize when I'm dealing with some kind of bad spirit. But I don't have to make it known in every instance and announce what I'm doing. I just immediately start praying. Some people who do the casting out in such a public manner are putting on a show which in my opinion opens the door for even more chaos and confusion. You can boldly come against something amiss and still retain order.


 

You know, I can identify with you on praying when you encounter someone operating in an unclean spirit. Some people do not want to be free of their slimy, manipulative, and deceitful ways. They enjoy what they do because they can get their way but I will guard myself and pray.  Sometimes it is best to pull them to the side and deal with the issue privately. Our prayers have power.


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2011)

I remember a few times my pastor had to stop service to correct some things . Thats because it was needed. He is a firm believer that if you mess up before all you need to be corrected before all, because if nothing is stated about the mistake, that can make others believe it was ok what that person did. But the only time he does this is when its something severe that could be misleading..

This an a true example,
This visitor got up in front of everyone and was testifying about how his friend committed suicide and how she went to heaven. My pastor couldnt allow his congregation or anyone to believe when u committ suicide you go to heaven. So when the person was done, he took the mic and cleared it up. He wasnt mean or anything. He just stated truth, and we moved on with the song and testimony service and that same person kept coming.

Its been times when I had to be corrected before all!!   Yes it hurt my lil flesh but it made me love my pastor even more. It made me stronger and wiser! I bet you i dont make them mistakes no more.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Nov 1, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> I remember a few times my pastor had to stop service to correct some things . Thats because it was needed. He is a firm believer that if you mess up before all you need to be corrected before all, because if nothing is stated about the mistake, that can make others believe it was ok what that person did. But the only time he does this is when its something severe that could be misleading..
> 
> This an a true example,
> This visitor got up in front of everyone and was testifying about how his friend committed suicide and how she went to heaven. My pastor couldnt allow his congregation or anyone to believe when u committ suicide you go to heaven. So when the person was done, he took the mic and cleared it up. He wasnt mean or anything. He just stated truth, and we moved on with the song and testimony service and that same person kept coming.
> ...


 

Now see, yes correction needed to be made. Folks can't just stand up and speak stuff that don't line up. I've seen that happen before and I feel so embarrassed for the person but you correct in love.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

I understand exactly what you are saying but the kind of rebuke would be based on the situation ...

do you think that Peter was hurt by Jesus' rebuke of him in Mark 8 
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, *Get thee behind me, Satan*: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that are of men.









nathansgirl1908 said:


> I think when it can be done in a manner that isn't hurtful or disruptive. When we read about Jesus, it seemed to me that He took a firm, yet loving approach. He was about the business and He wasn't disruptive in the process. I think we are supposed to follow that lead. It's not about performing for others to prove how Holy we are or how much we can see and feel in the Spirit realm. And even though people have different spiritual gifts, some people start trying to operate in a gift they don't have, but one they desire. And that too can cause things to be out of order.


----------



## Laela (Nov 1, 2011)

OK then, was your pastor out of order for doing this? In this scenario I don't see the disorder. Some people just don't receive well from others, and that's their issue; but we are to subject ourselves to spiritual authority. Not saying all pastors are always right, but if we can't submit to spiritual authority, how can we say we are submitting to God? Therein lies some of the problem in a lot of churches today. 




Alicialynn86 said:


> I remember a few times *my pastor had to stop service to correct *some things . Thats because it was needed. He is a firm believer that if you mess up before all you need to be corrected before all, because if nothing is stated about the mistake, that can make others believe it was ok what that person did. But the only time he does this is when its something severe that could be misleading..
> 
> This an a true example,
> This visitor got up in front of everyone and was testifying about how his friend committed suicide and how she went to heaven. My pastor couldnt allow his congregation or anyone to believe when u committ suicide you go to heaven. So when the person was done, he took the mic and cleared it up. He wasnt mean or anything. He just stated truth, and we moved on with the song and testimony service and that same person kept coming.
> ...


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

Exactly, Exactly it's all about respect for the office held as well as the person and trust me we do NOT'want to be told that we are wrong publicly or privily...flesh always want to be appeased and always wants to be right...




Laela said:


> OK then, was your pastor out of order for doing this? In this scenario I don't see the disorder. Some people just don't receive well from others, and that's their issue; but we are to subject ourselves to spiritual authority. Not saying all pastors are always right, but if we can't submit to spiritual authority, how can we say we are submitting to God?


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

More importantly if we are disobedient to people who are in authority over us we are disobedient to God...no doubt...


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2011)

I believe he was in order.


----------



## Mis007 (Nov 1, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> *As a member of service would you sit back and say nothing or do you think that this should be address, also what do you think about boycotting in the lords house*.


 
I have learnt to "chew the hay and spit the sticks". ..in other words I take in, digest and use what I feel is useful and beneficial to me and dismiss what is not. No church is perfect and you will find flaws everywhere. Pray on it and you will be led in the right direction.


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Nov 1, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> This an a true example,
> This visitor got up in front of everyone and was testifying about how his friend committed suicide and how she went to heaven. My pastor couldnt allow his congregation or anyone to believe when u committ suicide you go to heaven. So when the person was done, he took the mic and cleared it up. He wasnt mean or anything. He just stated truth, and we moved on with the song and testimony service and that same person kept coming.
> 
> Its been times when I had to be corrected before all!!   Yes it hurt my lil flesh but it made me love my pastor even more. It made me stronger and wiser! I bet you i dont make them mistakes no more.


 That is different.  That's obviously something that needs to be corrected.


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2011)

I always say, you can tell a person's submission to God by the way people treat their bosses, pastor, husbands etc, who ever has authority over them. If you cant obey the natural person you sure wont obey someone you can't see. I may not always agree with how something is done but I never disrespect or go against my authority,I bring it to God and ask Him to either enlighten the other person or me if I'm the one who needs to be enlighten. 


Now if that authority is in down right flat out sin..thats different, but you can still show respect toward them


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2011)

Can you provide a example/senario when something isnt corrected right?



nathansgirl1908 said:


> That is different. That's obviously something that needs to be corrected.


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Nov 1, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> I understand exactly what you are saying but the kind of rebuke would be based on the situation ...
> 
> do you think that Peter was hurt by Jesus' rebuke of him in Mark 8
> But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, *Get thee behind me, Satan*: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that are of men.



 And even in that scenario, it wasn't something that was disruptive.  But making a spectacle in front of a congregation during service is different.


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Nov 1, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> I always say, you can tell a person's submission to God by the way people treat their bosses, pastor, husbands etc, who ever has authority over them. If you cant obey the natural person you sure wont obey someone you can't see. I may not always agree with how something is done but I never disrespect or go against my authority,I bring it to God and ask Him to either enlighten the other person or me if I'm the one who needs to be enlighten.
> 
> 
> Now if that authority is in down right flat out sin..thats different, but you can still show respect toward them


 For me it depends on what I see being exhibited in that person's daily life.  It's not about perfection, but is this someone that I trust enough to "submit" to their authority?  With respect to husbands, submission really goes both ways according to what I've read.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

Matthew 21
Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

certain situations will require you to be more forceful than normal...




nathansgirl1908 said:


> And even in that scenario, it wasn't something that was disruptive. But making a spectacle in front of a congregation during service is different.


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2011)

That is true, you do have to trust the person you are being submitted to. Even with God, alot of times disobedience comes from our lack of trust we have in God sometimes.And you are correct the bible says we have to be subject to another.

 But the husband does hold the ultimate authority(besides God), he is the head..rite?  (*Married sistahs help me with this one )*

I want to make sure I'm right, dont wanna give out false info.




nathansgirl1908 said:


> For me it depends on what I see being exhibited in that person's daily life. It's not about perfection, but is this someone that I trust enough to "submit" to their authority? With respect to husbands, submission really goes both ways according to what I've read.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Nov 1, 2011)

*Now I need you guys to help me out with something. *

I see you guys posting about submitting to those in authority. The pastor being the head, etc. When people start saying these things it brings back hurtful memories of when I was hurt by church leaders. I get scared because there was a time when I submitted and I got abused and I saw others get abused. It was a very hurtful experience. I got angry and wrote the leaders telling them what they did and how it hurt. I apologized for my part in the matter but they did not apologize, they justified their stuff and denied stuff that was true. 

Now I will not get close to a pastor. I will fellowship but I will not allow them access into my life like before. I sit and wait for them to show me that they are like the rest...controlling, manipulative, etc. My guards are up now. Where I'm fellowshipping now, the leader is different but it's like I'm waiting for the punch line so I can RUN. Yall pray for ME.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

Also I'd like to recommend the book of Nehemiah (not sure if you have studied before but it's worth a re-read I will be reading tonight) he was a bold no nonsense Prophet who did is share of rebuking...





nathansgirl1908 said:


> For me it depends on what I see being exhibited in that person's daily life. It's not about perfection, but is this someone that I trust enough to "submit" to their authority? With respect to husbands, submission really goes both ways according to what I've read.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear about your experience ...I pray that you will begin to trust again, and that you will know real men and women of God who are not too big or prideful to admit that are wrong and will apologize ....



Health&hair28 said:


> *Now I need you guys to help me out with something. *
> 
> I see you guys posting about submitting to those in authority. The pastor being the head, etc. When people start saying these things it brings back hurtful memories of when I was hurt by church leaders. I get scared because there was a time when I submitted and I got abused and I saw others get abused. It was a very hurtful experience. I got angry and wrote the leaders telling them what they did and how it hurt. I apologized for my part in the matter but they did not apologize, they justified their stuff and denied stuff that was true.
> 
> Now I will not get close to a pastor. I will fellowship but I will not allow them access into my life like before. I sit and wait for them to show me that they are like the rest...controlling, manipulative, etc. My guards are up now. Where I'm fellowshipping now, the leader is different but it's like I'm waiting for the punch line so I can RUN. Yall pray for ME.


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2011)

Amen, I will be praying that God does a complete healing in that area of your life.. I really will be. 
God has set shepreds over us and He wants us to be able to fully trust them and love them


----------



## JeterCrazed (Nov 1, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> \
> 
> 
> JeterCrazed, I apologize to you because it was a question presented to help me clarify if I am in the wrong in going around trying to find out what was going on.  It was never intended for anyone to be discouraged from attending service, i would never encourage that. I will not be leaving my church, I will do whatever God leads me to do to help build my church up.  If it was not for the body, I don't think I could get through the many trials and crises that keep riding up in my life. God is the center of my life, but being with the people that love the Lord like I do well there is nothing like it really. I need the body as much as I need air.
> ...





Please do not get the impression that you have influenced me negatively. Not the case. Also, read free first chapter of the book and you will see why I recommended it. Don't b fooled by the title. I see people have already assumed that the book has a certain intention again. SMH there's that feeling about church again...anyway, the book discusses very issues as these. 


Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## Guitarhero (Nov 1, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> *
> 
> Now I will not get close to a pastor. I will fellowship but I will not allow them access into my life like before. I sit and wait for them to show me that they are like the rest...controlling, manipulative, etc. My guards are up now. Where I'm fellowshipping now, the leader is different but it's like I'm waiting for the punch line so I can RUN. Yall pray for ME.*


*

How unfortunate!  I'm just learning of an incident in my former diocese...yet another.  Well, they went after both the priest and the bishop this time and charges were filed.  Good! I hate this thing, I surely do.  Just this past Sunday,  our homily was about the Pharisees and hypocrisy, in Matthew 23:

9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ.b 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.



He went on to explain what this hyperbole of Jesus meant.  Of course, we have teachers, fathers and whatnot with leaders who have the authority but His hyperbole was meant to bring attention to the hypocrisy of them.  He went on to explain that the priests of old were given the authority by G-d so that the people kept the feasts and sacrifices and obeyed the rulings as G-d had ordained and that they were to continue to do them.  We can think of it today as continuing to pray, live, fast - whichever it is your church recommends...but in doing so, keep in mind that we are not supposed to do what they do.  

Father explained about hypocrites and that they are not the worst!  How so?  Well, hypocrites also do what G-d commands of them, they just take a wrong turn every now and then.  So, they are not perfect but they try.  They were not the worst.  What was it the Pharisees were doing?  They were not even trying!!!  And unfortunately, this has hit every temple, mosque, parish and church the world over.  People do not hear, do not try and many are hurt in the most horrible of ways.  We are to keep following the Church and Christ  but not the actions of  what some of our leaders are doing - totally ignoring the fact they are in full disobedience.  I fully comprehend your story 

What a shame.  I hope you heal from that awful trauma.  Don't feel badly, either, it's to be expected and you are right to protect yourself.  Just focus on Him and what it is He has called you to do.  I'm so sorry.*


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2011)

I'm sure she just misunderstood your comments after your recommendation of the book, and wants to be certain that her post about her church 'drama' didn't help to discourage you in anyway...



JeterCrazed said:


> Please do not get the impression that you have influenced me negatively. Not the case. Also, read free first chapter of the book and you will see why I recommended it. Don't b fooled by the title. I see people have already assumed that the book has a certain intention again. *SMH there's that feeling about church again...anyway, the book discusses very issues as these. *
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## Mis007 (Nov 1, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> *Now I need you guys to help me out with something. *
> 
> I see you guys posting about submitting to those in authority. The pastor being the head, etc. When people start saying these things it brings back hurtful memories of when I was hurt by church leaders. I get scared because there was a time when I submitted and I got abused and I saw others get abused. It was a very hurtful experience. I got angry and wrote the leaders telling them what they did and how it hurt. I apologized for my part in the matter but they did not apologize, they justified their stuff and denied stuff that was true.
> 
> Now I will not get close to a pastor. I will fellowship but I will not allow them access into my life like before. I sit and wait for them to show me that they are like the rest...controlling, manipulative, etc. My guards are up now. Where I'm fellowshipping now, the leader is different but it's like I'm waiting for the punch line so I can RUN. Yall pray for ME.


 
Sorry to read of your experience, yes church hurt is one of the most hurtful things in life. Yes there are bad pastors, but there are actual men of God doing his will.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks ladies for your words of encouragement. I know that God is moving in Me and He will bring glory to His name. He is working this out, I know He is. 

@blazingthru

Please forgive me for derailing your thread with my personal issues. I don't mean to be rude. The comments just sparked something in me. 

What your church is dealing with brought back memories of the stuff I have seen and been through. It is ugly to God, when we as Christians are against one another. When they really get before God, He will show them just how ugly their fleshly ways are. I know from experience.


----------



## JeterCrazed (Nov 1, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> I'm sure she just misunderstood your comments after your recommendation of the book, and wants to be certain that her post about her church 'drama' didn't help to discourage you in anyway...



I think I'm gonna sit in bible study with the kids. 

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


----------



## blazingthru (Nov 2, 2011)

ClassicBeauty said:


> Who says they've been boycotting church? Maybe they have just chosen to attend another church for a while. The fact that the original OP has been gone for so long, others may think that she too has been boycotting church.
> 
> In my area, there are churches on every corner. I don't care where you go to church, just as long as they are praching about Jesus and building people based on the word of God. People leave churches all the time for many different reasons. If there's a lot of drama, I don't blame them for wanting to spend their Sunday mornings at a more peaceful place of worship.


 
They said they were boycotting thats the reason for the question.  something you do until a thing is done the way you want it to be done.  Thats why they gave it that title.

I also was going just not every week like I normally go, because I wasn't always able to get there. But when I was there I was there.

We are Seventh Day Adventist there are not many SDA churches every where, So I can name all the churches they might have went too and the reasons why they are not members. I won't but I am just saying.  In addition to that, I was keeping in contact with members and letting them know what was going on with me and members were calling me.  They were just not talking about what was going on with that.  Church to me is nothing like I was use too its not a building to me, this is my family. I love my family and I am concern when something is off and I sense it right away. I notice when certain people are not there are not serving at all.  Besides at some point I felt no one really would notice my absences but I was wrong. We are not benchwarmers and if some people are they need to get up. Everyone has a part to do, I serve n many different ministries and functions within my church but never realize how important my role is. But you know just your presences at service speaks volumns to someone, you just never know what your words and the things you do how it affects someone else and their life and their struggles, everyone is important in a some special way.  I think if your going to leave then leave, not say your boycotting. I think that if your set in your mind that your leaving for foolisness then thats between you and God, I would never leave behind something so foolish when you end up breaking it down its all about Pride. i will leave when the word of God changes up in the pulpit and nonsense starts streaming out then I am gone. But in the meantime, I am going to pray and ask others to pray and serve in whatever way I am needed and am able.  It really doesn't matter what kind of service you go to as long as you have human beings in there, who are sick with sin, there is going to be a problem and we just learn to get through it the best way possible.  

Be blessed everyone, I thank you for your comments they were very helpful to me.


----------

