# Celibacy



## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

A friend of mine posted a noted on celibacy, and I found it to be very thought provoking, and I agree with the author's position...what are your thoughts on the subject

I received three emails from three different women from three different places around the country on one day last week. All of the emails were concerning the same relationship topic: “Dear Steven, can I be celibate and still be in a relationship?” I have been avoiding this celibacy question for a couple of years now because I don’t want to be the cause of a person going to hell. As a Christian, I know that we are supposed to wait until we are married before having sex. Having said that, I find it necessary to keep it real at all times. All times. When keeping it real, discussion points have to be placed in perspective. 

The perspective required here is that of the Average Single Sexually Active Man. Let’s call him Sam. The question at hand is, Will Sam give up having sex for you? After careful assessment of the data collection from my previous field research, I have decided that this topic is much more complicated than it initially seems. You know what? Let’s just talk directly to Sam. 

Steven James Dixon: Sam, if you are in a relationship with a woman, does she have to have sex with you in order for you to remain faithful and stay in the relationship?” 
Sam: Steven, why would I wait and sacrifice sex when I can just get it from somewhere else? 
Steven James Dixon: You are right, you can get sex anywhere, but don’t you want more than that out of your woman? Out of your relationship? Sam: Yeah, I want more, I want those things when I get married, but not when I first meet a woman. When I first meet a woman I am thinking about one thing and one thing only. 

Steven James Dixon: But through the processing of that line of thinking you will undoubtedly miss out on some good women. 

Sam: True, I am going to miss out on some good women, but all the good women are not celibate. Many good women like sex just as much as I do. Which circles me back to the original question, why would I wait and sacrifice sex when I can just get it from somewhere else? While talking with Sam I started to think maybe we are asking Sam the wrong question. 

Steven James Dixon: Sam, you are not waiting or sacrificing sex, you are waiting on that specific woman. Because she is a phenomenal woman. Because that woman who is saving herself for you is special. She is unique. She is principled. She is obviously God fearing. She will be able to pray for you when you are down. She is going to be submissive. Sam: How do I know that she is going to be all that? 

Steven James Dixon: You have to stay longer and find out. Sam: No! She has to show me more upfront. If I am going to sacrifice, then I need to know right upfront what I am sacrificing for. If I meet a woman that has not been through your training class there is no way of me knowing if she is worthy of me making that sacrifice. 

And now we arrive at the problem identification. Celibate sister, you are not going to like what I have to say right now but it is the truth. If you want Sam, then you are going to have to show Sam your woman. Sexual women are visible to Sam on a daily basis so he will only recognize you if you stand out — If you show him your woman. Celibate sister you are going to have to step your game up. If that man takes you out and spends money on you then you need to be ready to cook him a meal. Not a snack, not dinner, you need to be able to cook him something that is going to make him sit on the couch and rub his belly in a clockwise circular motion. If you want a man, you have to show him your woman. 
If he is showing you interest then you cannot wait for him to earn the opportunity to gain more knowledge about your woman. It doesn’t have to be a candle-lit dinner. It can be a get together with friends and your place, where he gets to see how you live, how you decorate, how clean you are, how you can add value to his life. Celibate sisters, it is your responsibility to show the man what your momma taught you. A man is not staying, not sacrificing and definitely not marrying a woman that has not shown him her wife skills. Celibacy is part of your own personal, spiritual walk. No one can walk it with you. Having said all that, if you are celibate you are not supposed to want to date Sam. Sam is average. You are better than that. Disclaimer: I am not implying that a woman belongs in the kitchen and that a man does not cook. Man and woman can share household duties equally. Y’all get on my nerves with that


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## LoveisYou (Jul 5, 2011)

Oh....OK. Um, assuming we want a man like Sam. I want a man who honors God's word, not one with the mindset "I'ma fornicate unless she's willing to cook for me." Admittedly, I'm a bit perturbed....


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> * She is going to be submissive.    *Sam: How do I know that she is going to be all that?
> 
> Steven James Dixon: You have to stay longer and find out. Sam:* No! She has to show me more upfront. If I am  going to sacrifice, then I need to know right upfront what I am  sacrificing for.* If I meet a woman that has not been through your  training class there is no way of me knowing if she is worthy of me  making that sacrifice.
> 
> And now we arrive at the problem identification. Celibate sister, you  are not going to like what I have to say right now but it is the truth. * If you want Sam, then you are going to have to show Sam your woman*.  Sexual women are visible to Sam on a daily basis so he will only  recognize you if you stand out — If you show him your woman. Celibate  sister you are going to have to step your game up.




Well, seems to me that Sam is not the type of guy that I would ever want.  How is he getting his?  By openness?  No, he's a liar and that's a sin...a compulsive sinner and thus, not a great guy.  It's also apparent to me that this type of thinking puts all the pressure on women to be "clean, beautiful, dream, perfect...." ad blech!!! ...while allowing old Sam to be a rooty poot.    I could show "my woman" all day long but my virtues reflect on me solely.  You cannot change a man.  He is what he is, from the jump.  

Sounds like an old Greek and Italian saying..."the man is the head and the woman is the neck and she can turn the head in any direction she wants."  Um, in my book...what good is a neck if the head is worthless?


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

I agree, but I do feel like women should show themselves in a wifely light.  We want our husbands to provide, protect, and lead his family and if he doesn't show those qualities during courtship we (most women) would be hesitant to say "i do" so it's only fair that we show our wifely qualities as well.  A man needs something to work with...


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

^^^Something to work with...like what?  We're both educated professionals.  I handle my finances in a responsible manner, he does as well.  I am conscientious and philanthropic, so is he.  I am celibate and ....???????????????  He wants me to pretend to be his wife?  How would that happen?  What would it look like?  He's already a cheater.  Oh nooooo, I don't want a Sam.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Unfortunately a lot of Christian men have "sam's" mentality, and alot of christian women have no problem giving it up to the "right man" and because many christian women choose to compromise the ball is in the man's court, IMO it's why a lot of good christian women are still single. Without even knowing it I showed my bf my wifely qualities, whenever I'm with him I cook and clean and I take care of making sure his needs are met because he loves me unconditionally and supports in every area possible.  I know i have a very old- fashioned view of relationships and marriage, but I agree with the author to a certain extent.


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## tyrablu (Jul 5, 2011)

Considering that the author admitted that I as a celibate woman should not be dating Sam cause he is average, what was the point of the article? And I don't believe that cooking for a man is one of the only ways to show him what you are worth. And coming from a woman that doesn't cook, my *husband* will be a special man to get me in the kitchen 

Please feel free to correct me or further explain what the real point was.


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## Poohbear (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> And now we arrive at the problem identification. Celibate sister, you are not going to like what I have to say right now but it is the truth. If you want Sam, then you are going to have to show Sam your woman. Sexual women are visible to Sam on a daily basis so he will only recognize you if you stand out — If you show him your woman. Celibate sister you are going to have to step your game up. If that man takes you out and spends money on you then *you need to be ready to cook him a meal. Not a snack, not dinner, you need to be able to cook him something that is going to make him sit on the couch and rub his belly in a clockwise circular motion.* If you want a man, you have to show him your woman.
> If he is showing you interest then you cannot wait for him to earn the opportunity to gain more knowledge about your woman. It doesn’t have to be a candle-lit dinner. It can be a get together with friends and your place, where he gets to see how you live, how you decorate, how clean you are, how you can add value to his life. Celibate sisters, it is your responsibility to show the man what your momma taught you. *A man is not staying, not sacrificing and definitely not marrying a woman that has not shown him her wife skills. *Celibacy is part of your own personal, spiritual walk. No one can walk it with you. Having said all that, if you are celibate you are not supposed to want to date Sam. Sam is average. You are better than that. Disclaimer: I am not implying that a woman belongs in the kitchen and that a man does not cook. Man and woman can share household duties equally. Y’all get on my nerves with that



Isn't cooking a "wifely" skill?  

Sex isn't the only "wifely" skill.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Guitarhero when I say something to work with I mean why should you be "the one" if all you're doing during dating is allowing yourself to be catered to dinner, movies, whatever and you're not meeting any of his needs emotional or otherwise, he's going to leave.  Think of it if you were a man


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Poohbear it didn't say she does cook, it says she should be able to


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## Poohbear (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> Unfortunately a lot of Christian men have "sam's" mentality, and alot of christian women have no problem giving it up to the "right man" and because many christian women choose to compromise the ball is in the man's court, IMO it's why a lot of good christian women are still single. *Without even knowing it I showed my bf my wifely qualities, whenever I'm with him I cook and clean and I take care of making sure his needs are met because he loves me unconditionally and supports in every area possible.  I know i have a very old- fashioned view of relationships and marriage*, but I agree with the author to a certain extent.



disgtgyal - Isn't old-fashion the opposite of the bolded? Old-fashion is NOT showing your wifely duties before marriage.

I know my mother didn't do a daggone thing for my dad before they got married. Same thing for my uncles and aunts who are married.

And to top it off, is showing him your wifely duties making him want to marry you any time sooner? How long have you two been together and when do you two plan on getting married?


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## LoveisYou (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm not interested in showing a man like Sam anything, lol


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## LoveisYou (Jul 5, 2011)

So we are supposed to be trying to win men like Sam (those wallowing in sin) our wifely qualities, while he sits there and wallow in sin....? One who willingly fornicates unless a woman shows him her wifely qualities? See that's why we really have to go back to the Word....because I can't think of a scripture that supports his argument.


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## Poohbear (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> Poohbear it didn't say she does cook, it says she should be able to



Okay, I see it now. It was somewhat tricky reading it because the sentence was an "if-then" sentence. It started off with "*If* that man takes you out and spends money on you *then* you need to be ready to cook him a meal". I think of the first "If" part of that sentence as something happening currently now. Therefore, the "then" part would have to happen soon after that man takes you out and spends money on you. I don't know. Maybe I was thinking too much.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> @Guitarhero when I say something to work with I mean why should you be "the one" if all you're doing during dating is allowing yourself to be catered to dinner, movies, whatever and you're not meeting any of his needs emotional or otherwise, he's going to leave.  Think of it if you were a man




If I were a man (I took the psychological test, I am exactly 1/2), I would want a woman who could hold her own.  But when I married her, I would work my darndest to take care of her because she will be the mother of my children and I would want the best for my family.  You have 2 single people dating.  Who's to say his emotional needs and otherwise aren't being met if I don't act like a "virgin-vamp-bettycrocker-nun-marilyn monroe on stillettoes" while he acts like a little boy?   Sam is not a man and he's not a gentleman.  He's a male.  Lot's of dating couples progress in their relationship and cook for each other.  There's so much more to the relationship and marriage vetting process than catering to such a beast.  I wouldn't want his stupid type.  After awhile, folks don't even spend that much money on dates if they are serious...they just hang out.  shrugs.  In essence, Sam can't have the cookie and he can't bake the cookie elsewhere and be with me cuz I'll remove the cookie sheet, period!  I do not do rooty poot.  I'd start dating his friend 

Hey wait a minute.  His needs?  What about YOUR needs?  I'm not satisfied with eating out...I can cook gourmet.  Movies?  DVD or Netflix at home.  Where's the intellectual conversation?  What does he do in the way of philanthropy?  Is he continually educating himself?  He can't give me anything I can get on my own, including that.  There's always the hand.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

@ poohbear when I say old fashioned, I mean taking care of my man.  Your mom and aunts are of a different generation and things were very different then. 

The fact is women feel like they should have to do anything for their man until he puts a ring on it, when in reality most men even Godly ones aren't doing so without knowing you can be a good wife. We can say we don't want a man like sam but the truth is sam is the average christian man.  My question is would it kill us ladies to cater to our men as they are taking care of us.  We're not providing pre- marital sex (which i agree with) we're not cooking, cleaning, or catering to them in any fashion, what are we contributing to the relationship, allowing them to be in our presence, come on...


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## Poohbear (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> @ poohbear when I say old fashioned, I mean taking care of my man.  Your mom and aunts are of a different generation and things were very different then.
> 
> The fact is women feel like they should have to do anything for their man until he puts a ring on it, when in reality most men even Godly ones aren't doing so without knowing you can be a good wife. We can say we don't want a man like sam but the truth is sam is the average christian man.  My question is would it kill us ladies to cater to our men as they are taking care of us.  We're not providing pre- marital sex (which i agree with) we're not cooking, cleaning, or catering to them in any fashion, what are we contributing to the relationship, allowing them to be in our presence, come on...



A woman taking care of a man before marriage is not old-fashion though. erplexed

I don't think anyone feels like a woman shouldn't do anything... I can only speak for myself, but I believe that a woman shouldn't have to do wifely duties before marriage. And a man shouldn't have to do husband duties before marriage. And a man shouldn't have to dish out tons of money on food and gifts for the woman before marriage either. I feel like both man and woman should get to know each other before marriage. Simply have conversations, discuss values and desires, spend quality time together, have a good attitude around each other, encourage and enjoy each others time... not all this "wifey" and "hubby" stuff, no providing for each other, no sexing each other, none of that. That should be for marriage.

Edited to Add:
disgtgyal - you forgot to answer these questions: And to top it off, is showing him your wifely duties making him want to marry you any time sooner? How long have you two been together and when do you two plan on getting married?


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> @ poohbear when I say old fashioned, I mean taking care of my man.  Your mom and aunts are of a different generation and things were very different then.
> 
> The fact is women feel like they should have to do anything for their man until he puts a ring on it, when in reality most men even Godly ones aren't doing so without knowing you can be a good wife. We can say we don't want a man like sam but the truth is sam is the average christian man.  My question is would it kill us ladies to cater to our men as they are taking care of us.  We're not providing pre- marital sex (which i agree with) we're not cooking, cleaning, or catering to them in any fashion,* what are we contributing to the relationship, allowing them to be in our presence,* come on...




I don't think you get it...or maybe I'm not getting it?    Sam is nasty!  What's he providing for me?  LOL.  I'm not going to be able to "save" Sam.  He has to save himself.  Let me ask you, do you think that acting like a little wifey and cooking, cleaning, etc. (like, don't single males and females do that already?...not like it's rocket science), taking off his shoes, fixing his plate (we had that thread and it was a riot gurl!!!) is going to make him be CHASTE?  Not just celibate?  His goal should be chastity and waiting until he marries.  So should hers.  Do you think you can make a better christian out of Sam by  playing housewife?  He gets to have much-needed nookie but I gotta wait and he's all joined physically to others and fizzled out by the time I get him?    I dunno, OP, I'm scared of Sam.  You would date such a guy who has sex on the side while claiming Jesus on Sunday?


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

I agree there is much more to the vetting process for marriage, but my point is we need to show them what we would be like as a wife and they need to show us what we would be like as a husband.  Yes I agree that a man wants a woman who can hold her own but a godly man wants a woman who knows how to submit to him and allow him to be the head, he wants you to be able to hold your own in the event he isn't there to lead


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> I agree there is much more to the vetting process for marriage, but my point is we need to show them what we would be like as a wife and* they need to show us what we would be like as a husband.*  Yes I agree that a man wants a woman who can hold her own but a godly man wants a woman who knows how to submit to him and allow him to be the head, he wants you to be able to hold your own in the event he isn't there to lead




After this, I'mma quit...I don't want you to think I'm picking on you and I'm laughing out loud about this Sam (it's all in fun, really).  Submit to him?  Nah, son, I won't ever do that.  We can partner this relationship together or not at all.  Sam is already showing me what he'll be like - coming home late and lying he was at the office when he was sexing another, looking at everything sexy that moves in addition to me, daring to suggest I submit to his shenanigans when he's a complete moron .  He's going to be a cheater.   Then he'll start lying about the finances etc.  

I don't have to cook and clean for a guy to show him how good a wife I can be.  The virtuous woman...it's the morals first...and all the rest follows within the marriage.  As far as him showing gifts and all that, that's not what I want.  I don't need to go out every week.  You go to a movie, you have little time to talk.  If the relationships is serious, you're going to be just hanging out anyway, much like you would married.  See what I mean?


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Guitarhero no, you cannot save sam, but sam is simply asking why should i stay around for you, Sam never said he will cheat on you, he said he will leave because it addition to not having sex with him, you're not doing anything else for him.  Playing housewife isn't going to make a man stay, if he wants to go, but if wants to stay, it'll definitely help.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> After this, I'mma quit...I don't want you to think I'm picking on you and I'm laughing out loud about this Sam (it's all in fun, really).  Submit to him?  Nah, son, I won't ever do that.  We can partner this relationship together or not at all.  Sam is already showing me what he'll be like - coming home late and lying he was at the office when he was sexing another, looking at everything sexy that moves in addition to me, daring to suggest I submit to his shenanigans when he's a complete moron .  He's going to be a cheater.  I don't have to cook and clean for a guy to show him how good a wife I can be.  The virtuous woman...it's the morals first...and all the rest follows within the marriage.  As far as him showing gifts and all that, that's not what I want.  I don't need to go out every week.  You go to a movie, you have little time to talk.  If the relationships is serious, you're going to be just hanging out anyway, much like you would married.  See what I mean?



You can't say you're saving yourself because you're following God but then say I'm not gonna submit to him, you can't pick and choose which part of the bible you will obey, I'm sorry.  IMO God isn't going to give you a godly spouse if you don't believe in submission.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> @Guitarhero no, you cannot save sam, but sam is simply asking why should i stay around for you, Sam never said he will cheat on you, he said he will leave because* it addition to not having sex with him, you're not doing anything else for him.*  Playing housewife isn't going to make a man stay, if he wants to go, but if wants to stay, it'll definitely help.




Ok, I don't comprehend why he can't stop having premarital sex which is fornication.  If he can't have the goods before he buys them, then..."tooodaaaalooooooh!"  Bye.  Next!    He ain't doing nuddin' for me neither.  Yuck.  I don't want a Sam and if he's the average christian guy, I might then marry out.    Where the heck is Shimmie?  I think she's mad at me...but she could tell you better than I can about why this is all wrong.  Thou shalt not commit fornication!!!  I kinda fail at that...but well, I get back on the right road.


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## Renewed1 (Jul 5, 2011)

LoveisYou your statement is so true. 

Opster, yes there are men like Sam out there. But I will not compromise my celibacy or my walk with God (more importantly) for a man that is not God sent. Because God will send the man that will wait until our wedding night. 

The thing about relationships is that BOTH PARTIES are displaying what they bring to the table from cooking to money to whatever....it's not just one sided. I'm looking for a man that knows how to cook, clean, balance his checkbook, etc. WHY...because you can't be over the age of 21 and not know how to do these basic life surviving things. 

Now, I'm "KEEPING IT REAL" a man like Sam is not a true man of God....for me!! I *refuse *to believe the millions of Christian men in the WORLD has a Sam mentality. I do understand sex may be more of a struggle for men, for obvious reasons. But it's not impossible to wait. If he's that hot; he better go find his wife with the quickness. 

My thing for the celibate women is; you don't need a bunch of guys. You just need that ONE RIGHT GUY!! The one that is your Boaz. Therefore, men like Sam, for me, can go jump in the lake. 



LoveisYou said:


> So we are supposed to be trying to win men like Sam (those wallowing in sin) our wifely qualities, while he sits there and wallow in sin....? One who willingly fornicates unless a woman shows him her wifely qualities? See that's why we really have to go back to the Word....because I can't think of a scripture that supports his argument.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> You can't say you're saving yourself because you're following God but then say I'm not gonna submit to him, you can't pick and choose which part of the bible you will obey, I'm sorry.  IMO God isn't going to give you a godly spouse if you don't believe in submission.




Oh, yes I can.  He's not submitting to Jesus, I ain't submitting to him.  Besides, most people do not know what g-dly submission is.  We can arrive at decisions together as a couple.  I do not submit in that previous way described.  Let's just leave this G-d giving me a g-dly spouse on Him solely.  At least, I ain't sleeping with Sam.  He ain't gonna get the nookie.


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## Poohbear (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> You can't say you're saving yourself because you're following God but then say I'm not gonna submit to him, you can't pick and choose which part of the bible you will obey, I'm sorry.  IMO God isn't going to give you a godly spouse if you don't believe in submission.



Submission to a man comes AFTER he marries you.

Before getting married, a man and a woman should treat each other like brothers and sisters in Christ. That's what I meant to say earlier. I know this is a far fetched idea from today's time, but I think relationships would be much more healthier if started off this way.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

No one is saying you should compromise and sleep with "sam", in fact women compromising is why "sam" is in the position he is in.  Those who refuse to believe that many Christian men think like "sam" I suggest you ask a few of your brothers in christ who aren't virgins and who will be completely honest with you. Whether we want to accept it or not, the fact is this mentality is very prevalent among christian males; how many women in this thread are single, celibate, but ready to be in a relationship? Now i'm not saying you should cow-down to any and every christian man that comes your way, but what I'm saying is if you come across one that truly loves you, treats you well, meets your needs, but he struggles with sex, then you need to be mindful of that and show him why you are worth the wait, and meet his other needs that's my point. I don't see why or how that's wrong, and  if shimmie can enlighten me i'm open to it


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

I completely agree with you poohbear submission comes after marriage, and God knows our heart so He knows whether we would submit or not. Yes you treat each other like brothers and sisters in Christ, but there in a courting period and I'm sure if he's courting you, you don't want him to behave in the same manner to the other sisters in Christ the way he's behaving towards you


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## LoveisYou (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> No one is saying you should compromise and sleep with "sam", in fact women compromising is why "sam" is in the position he is in.  Those who refuse to believe that many Christian men think like "sam" I suggest you ask a few of your brothers in christ who aren't virgins and who will be completely honest with you. Whether we want to accept it or not, the fact is this mentality is very prevalent among christian males; how many women in this thread are single, celibate, but ready to be in a relationship? Now i'm not saying you should cow-down to any and every christian man that comes your way, but what I'm saying is if you come across one that truly loves you, treats you well, meets your needs, but he struggles with sex, then you need to be mindful of that and show him why you are worth the wait, and meet his other needs that's my point. I don't see why or how that's wrong, and  if shimmie can enlighten me i'm open to it


So basically Sam isn't personally responsible for his actions it's those compromising woman's fault? Can we really blame others for our disobedience and sin? Is that Biblical? Does the Bible support that?


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## LoveisYou (Jul 5, 2011)

Remember we are called to holiness both men and women, now we are not perfect but let's not use that as an excuse to wallow in sin. Where is Christ in all of this?


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

He is responsible for his actions, but we cant leave an open door to the enemy and get mad when he comes in a set up shop, we created the environment for this behavior to occur.  We are all part of the body of Christ and those who compromise make it difficult for those struggling with that particular sin and those who don't compromise


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## Poohbear (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> I completely agree with you poohbear submission comes after marriage, and God knows our heart so He knows whether we would submit or not. Yes you treat each other like brothers and sisters in Christ, but there in a courting period and *I'm sure if he's courting you, you don't want him to behave in the same manner to the other sisters in Christ the way he's behaving towards you*



You made a good point here that applies to why woman shouldn't let down their guards completely to a man before marriage. If you are behaving as brothers and sisters, worrying about whether he is treating other sisters in Christ in the same manner should not make the woman upset only because you two are NOT married yet.  And here's the other thing about this... you are less likely to get upset with a man courting another woman if you have not been financially or sexually invested in this man before marriage.


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## brg240 (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal
sam doesn't sound like a winner to me :/ This actually kinda rubs me the wrong way

tbh i wouldn't lose too much sleep over sam not wanting to be with me. If he's not game with celibacy clearly we won't work out. I need someone i can grow with spiritually and Sam wouldn't be it. He doesn't see what's wrong with what he's doing.

I see what you are saying about bringing wifely attributes to the table but what husbandly qualities is Sam bringing?

Sam to me is just saying that he knows he's desirable as a Christian male so he doesn't have to do anything. That's really not someone I want in my life.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> No one is saying you should compromise and sleep with "sam", in fact women compromising is why "sam" is in the position he is in.  Those who refuse to believe that many Christian men think like "sam" I suggest you ask a few of your brothers in christ who aren't virgins and who will be completely honest with you. Whether we want to accept it or not, the fact is this mentality is very prevalent among christian males; how many women in this thread are single, celibate, but ready to be in a relationship? Now i'm not saying you should cow-down to any and every christian man that comes your way, but what I'm saying is if you come across one that truly loves you, treats you well, meets your needs, but he struggles with sex, then you need to be mindful of that and show him why you are worth the wait, and meet his other needs that's my point. I don't see why or how that's wrong, and  if shimmie can enlighten me i'm open to it




I've been married before.  Many men, no matter the religion or no religion, think and behave this way.  Those simply are not for me.  I want something totally different.  I'm a little confused as to what the point is, though.  Acting all wifey and giving him some isn't a christian behavior, period.  I think we're all saying we're worth the wait.  But Sam wasn't waiting and was bringing home std's and whatnot.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Poohbear I don't know any woman christian or otherwise that wouldn't be upset if a guy who is courting you is courting other women simultaneously regardless if you've invested sexually or financially because you've invested your time.  And if in fact you wouldn't be upset then why is sam a bad guy is it because he's courting other women who will give him what one isn't, isn't he deciding who to "settle with"


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## LoveisYou (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> You can't say you're saving yourself because you're following God but then say I'm not gonna submit to him, you can't pick and choose which part of the bible you will obey, I'm sorry.  IMO God isn't going to give you a godly spouse if you don't believe in submission.



Sam is a Godly spouse?

Sam is completely unrepentant about fornication. God loves a broken and contrite spirit and a repentant heart. With his mouth and deeds Sam has basically turned toward his own lusts, with pride he says he will continue to sin unless a woman does certain things. Do you see that pride? That refusal to honor God? Do you notice the door he has left for the enemy to stand on? Do you know the potential consequences this can have for his life? If he is so unrepentant why do you think marriage will change that? What will happen the day he is not pleased with his wife? Since he's choosing to dishonor God to do his own thing now don't you think he'll do the same thing then? Unless we repent....


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> He is responsible for his actions, but we cant leave an open door to the enemy and get mad when he comes in a set up shop, we created the environment for this behavior to occur.  We are all part of the body of Christ and those who compromise make it difficult for those struggling with that particular sin and those who don't compromise




I'm back again...but I do not comprehend this right here.  How would I have set up this type of situation?  By accepting his invite to dinner and the movies?  I'm not worth 9 bucks for a movie ticket and $20 dinner-for-two special at TGIF's?  That's spoiling me once a month?  Compromise in giving it up?  Sure, difficulties.  But we're not talking about giving it up.  He ain't willing to wait and is getting it elsewhere.  Where's my sin exactly?  How did I create the environment?  If anything, it'd be first date and him trying to get to homebase...and no subsequent date.  If it came up months into the relationship and he's pressuring me for sex and I don't wish to give in, my not cooking, cleaning and being his mother isn't contributing to his behavior.  I'd have to let him go.  Women are not responsible for the Sam's in the world.  They are responsible for themselves. I thought the whole point about Sam was that he was a sleezy guy who saw women as a piece of meat.  His friend was a nice guy and was trying to get him to see that a moral women would make a better wife.  Sam is trying to convince his friend that he can't buy the cow until he butchers it and eats it up.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> @Poohbear I don't know any woman christian or otherwise that wouldn't be upset if a guy who is courting you is courting other women simultaneously regardless if you've invested sexually or financially because you've invested your time.  And if in fact you wouldn't be upset then why is sam a bad guy is it because he's courting other women who will give him what one isn't, *isn't he deciding who to "settle with*"




I'm trying to follow and I think I have most of it.  To the bolded, no, because I'm deciding with whom I will settle.  I'm not passive in this process.  I'm not sitting there hoping some dude will feel sorry enough for me to marry me and whatnot while I put on the Easybake machine and apron.  I'm interviewing them and vetting them.  I'm comparing and examining fully.  I'm an active part of this process and *nobody wifes me*...I agree to enter a marriage partnership equally...but nobody wifes me at all.  No, un uh!  I'm not Cro-Magnum at all.  No clubs and rocks to the skull and carrying me off to the cave .


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Guitarhero you misunderstood me, or rather I wasn't clear. When I said we set the environment I meant by women compromising and choosing to give it up "sam" has an alternative to you, someone not willing to give it up.  If we as christian women all held the same principles when it comes to pre- marital sex, then he would have to look outside the body of christ for a wife, and that is why I strongly believe women are partly responsible for the sams out there.  And what makes you worth dinner and a movie, is it because you're a women and he has to come out his pocket for you, if you're in fact about partnership why not split the cost of the date.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

I thought we were all on the same page in NOT giving it up.  Shrugs.  Sigh, you made mention about women being basically spoiled by dinner etc.  People spend money on each other.  I don't think a woman is spoiled by 30 bucks for a date once a month...and vice-versa.  Dutch is the norm these days.

I'll say this, though, any man who is too cheap to gift his girlfriend isn't going to be a good husband and father.    We're not talking about jewels and Laboutins...we're talking about somebody who places a person above the worth of his money.  You show that in spending, often.  And if you will, maybe women show his worth in their lives by serving him a little?


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> I'm trying to follow and I think I have most of it.  To the bolded, no, because I'm deciding with whom I will settle.  I'm not passive in this process.  I'm not sitting there hoping some dude will feel sorry enough for me to marry me and whatnot while I put on the Easybake machine and apron.  I'm interviewing them and vetting them.  I'm comparing and examining fully.  I'm an active part of this process and *nobody wifes me*...I agree to enter a marriage partnership equally...but nobody wifes me at all.  No, un uh!  I'm not Cro-Magnum at all.  No clubs and rocks to the skull and carrying me off to the cave .



Well I believe it's the man's job to find a wife the bible says he who findeth a wife findeth a good thing, its his job to seek me out and propose to me, and it is my job to seek the lord whether he is the one for me.


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## Poohbear (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> Poohbear I don't know any woman christian or otherwise that wouldn't be upset if a guy who is courting you is courting other women simultaneously regardless if you've invested sexually or financially because you've invested your time.  And if in fact you wouldn't be upset then why is sam a bad guy is it because he's courting other women who will give him what one isn't, isn't he deciding who to "settle with"



Not understanding the last part but I'm not talking about Sam who wants to have sex with all these women. I'm just talking about a man in general who is courting (no sex involved) me and other women. I wouldn't see him as a bad guy if he decides to settle with another woman he has been courting. That's just life. I might be upset since I am human if I really wanted to be with the guy, but I shouldn't be extremely unreasonably upset if I haven't given him my money, body, or whole heart to him before getting married. I'm sorry but there is a difference in breaking it off with a guy you never had sex with compared to a guy you have had sex with. It's that unhealthy tie with the guy you had sex with that attached you to him and makes you wonder, "Why doesn't he want me? We had good sex, blah blah blah"... When you haven't had sex with the guy, it's easier to move on.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> Well I believe it's the man's job to find a wife the bible says he who findeth a wife findeth a good thing, its his job to seek me out and propose to me, and it is my job to seek the lord whether he is the one for me.




I'm part of the process.  G-d isn't going to utter a command for me to marry somebody.  He can show me that said-person is a good match but I don't have to marry that person.  I'm not waiting for somebody to seek me out and proclaim me his bride.  I have to have a part in that process.  In other words, I'm not looking to Jesus while some human being determines my life story and I ignore that shmucky person he truly is..Sam.  Well, if it works for you that way, then that's great.  That's not how I ever wish to do things.  We all are to look to the L-rd, not just women.  I'm not a lady in waiting.  I believe that scripture is referring to the goodness of marriage period, not that he's supposed to find her and she stands there in the desert waiting for her turn.  When you marry, you are open to the gift of life and bring children into the world.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Poohbear What i'm saying is, why is sam a bad guy, is it because he decided not to be with the woman who isn't giving it up, but a guy who as you said is courting different women and decides not to settle with you, for lets say because you're too skinny, would he be a "bad guy," i.e. is the reason that sam is not choosing you, what makes him deplorable in your eyes


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Guitarhero yes the lord does tell who is your husband (he told me, and my bf's parents) and as in all things we are to obey Him, regardless of whether you think that person is a good match for you or not, God knows what's best for you and when it comes to something that's a lifetime commitment i think its folly to not take the backseat to God, you can't be outside the will of God and still want him to bless your marriage, because it will ultimately lead to divorce.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> @Guitarhero yes the lord does tell who is your husband (he told me, and my bf's parents) and as in all things we are to obey Him, regardless of whether you think that person is a good match for you or not, God knows what's best for you and when it comes to something that's a lifetime commitment i think its folly to not take the backseat to God, you can't be outside the will of God and still want him to bless your marriage, because it will ultimately lead to divorce.




That's you, not me.  G-d is not going to command *me* to marry anybody. I have never heard of somebody preaching that G-d commands you to marry somebody. He can show you that he would be His choice...but G-d doesn't hold you by the ear lobe and drag you down the aisle to the altar, threatening to kill you unless you don't marry him.   Now a shotgun marriage, that's a different story and of human hands.  LOL.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

I didn't say command and said tells you.  There are many marriages i know of that are ordained by God. And if God tells you to marry someone and u chose not to, you are disobeying Him, so how is that any different than sam disobeying God in regards to pre- marital sex, disobedience is a sin, just as fornication.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> @Guitarhero *yes the lord does tell who is your husband (he told me, and my bf's parents) and as in all things we are to obey Him*, *regardless of whether you think that person is a good match for you or not, God knows what's best for you and when it comes to something that's a lifetime commitment i think its folly to not take the backseat to God, you can't be outside the will of God and still want him to bless your marriage, because it will ultimately lead to divorce.*




This led me to feel you think that G-d commands someone to marry a certain revealed person.  Sorry, ain't happening with me.    BTW, I'm divorced...why?  Because I wanted to be.    And I'm so happy!  Will remarry too, cuz that's what I will do and that's what I want.    And He told me to. Go figure.



disgtgyal said:


> Well I believe it's the man's job to find a  wife the bible says he who findeth a wife findeth a good thing, *its his  job to seek me out and propose to me, and it is my job to seek the lord  whether he is the one for me.*



If he would be the one at the moment, then you have the choice to either marry him or to NOT marry him.  Not marrying him is not going to take you out of the will of G-d.  In fact, lots of people do not follow through with things because they are truly finding the path they were meant to find.  Might sound good, but they go another route and find their true peace.  Moses was a different story in leading Israel out of Egypt.  G-d gives us a choice.  Even Moses had a choice. His choice was to follow G-d in that endeavor...he was meant to and that was his destiny.  But he had a choice.

When you marry, you have to give full consent.  How is that possible unless you...give full consent?  That also means G-d.  He's giving you the choice.  Well, in my church, it's that way.  I don't understand.  Are there people here other than OP who think G-d commands you to marry and if you don't, you're out of His will?  Whatever happened to free will?




disgtgyal said:


> *I didn't say command and said tells you.   *There are many marriages i know of that are ordained by God. And *if God  tells you to marry someone and u chose not to*, you are disobeying Him,  so how is that any different than sam disobeying God in regards to pre-  marital sex, disobedience is a sin, just as fornication.




What's the difference?  At this point, screw Sam.  He's a shmuck and I don't give a rat's behind about him and his ilk.  But this thing about G-d revealing a partner He would find suitable versus Him telling you, basically commanding you to marry someone is foreign to me...and thank G-d for it.  I am not obligated to marry anybody.  Marriage is a choice.  So is the priesthood.  So is parenthood (to enter into marriage).  G-d has preferences but He has given us free will.  Op, can I ask you if you heard from G-d or if people around you told you they heard from G-d, including your potential spouse?


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## Poohbear (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal - Are you aware that Steven James Dixon (the guy you mentioned in your original post) is a real person? Here's a book he wrote:






_Dixon says. “The book is about men because the emotional stability of the ‘man’ is the key element to having a successful relationship. If we get the men right, the women will fall in line.” This book will definitively answer the following concerns for women: 1. Why your boyfriend won’t make you his wife. 2. Why you might not want your boyfriend to be your husband. 3. Why you are single while she is married. 4. How to get a man and keep a husband. 5. How to be the best wife that you can be. This book will definitively answer the following concerns for men: 1. Why you are not ready to get married. 2. Why your homeboy is cheating on his wife. 3. How you can have a happy marriage. 4. What is expected of you as a husband. 5. How to be emotional and still maintain your manhood. “My experience and research have produced a body of knowledge about relationships. This body of knowledge has helped many men and women discover truths about their own relationships and lives,” explains Dixon._

Seems like the same ol' message of Steve Harvey and all these other men who still try to put blame back on the woman for not being patient enough or good enough or whatnot. So are you recommending that women are suppose to wait around til the man is done healing by "ho-ing" around?


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## Poohbear (Jul 5, 2011)

Steven James Dixon is considered the Relationship Beast 

Here's a post he made which I feel like still gives men the upper hand in whatever they do and puts the woman down. I do agree that men change when they want to and want to be great. I just don't like how women are always made to look like the dumb ones in these situations:

_I was at the church-house and as usual, Pastor was GOING INNNNNNNNNNNNN! My Pastor said something that blew my mind. He said that, “It’s more of a thrill for women to chase men than it is for men to chase women.” I pondered on that for a second. My Pastor is 100% correct. I think about all of the women who contact me every day about their relationship or marriage. Honestly, most of the time I want to say to them, “Why are you putting up with that mess!”

In my head I am thinking. . .

It is a wrap on your relationship or marriage.

In my heart I am feeling. . .

Compassion for your feelings. Empathy. Everyone deserves happiness and to be loved.
In my memory. . .

I remember that men can change. Men can grow and evolve. Men can be great husbands and fathers. But your man has to want to be a great husband or father. You can’t want it for him. A woman’s encouragement of a man to be greater means almost nothing if that man does not want to or think that he can be great. I wanted to be great. I am great.
The Thrill of The Chase in men for women is reasonable. Let me explain. You have a man who’s eyes are impressed by the figure of a woman. Men are visual. This woman becomes his conquest. Depending on the characteristics of that man, (not quality, characteristics) that man can measure and put a percentage on his chances of completing his conquest. When I was single, 9 out of 10 women in the building any given night would be mine if I so chose. I was handsome, I had a great smile, fit, I had the gift of gab, advanced intellect, great job, made six figures, home owner and my car did not have a top. My thrill is 90% achievable. It’s not really a chase, she is standing right there waiting for me to approach her.

In contrast, The Thrill of The Chase in women for men is unreasonable. The two “Chases” are different. Men chase women that they do not have a relationship with. It is new. It is unknown. The woman that is being chased could also be curious about the man chasing her. The male chase has the potential to lead to a relationship or better yet a sexcapade. (Sexcapade = Free sex. No work, no commitment, no chance at a fullfiling relationship.) The woman is not chasing a new man or a new relationship. Too often, the woman is chasing a proven to be bad man or a proven to be failed relationship. Man’s Chase has potential. Woman’s Chase lacks potential (the relationship has already failed once if not twice or thrice). The Thrill of The Chase in women actually is a chase. He is leaving, you want him to stay. He is cheating, you want him to stop. He doesn’t want you, YOU . . . CAN’T . . . STOP . . . WANTING . . . HIM.

To Be Clear:

Man is chasing someone new. New has potential.

Woman is chasing someone old. Old has already shown that he lacks potential.

Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast although we’ve never been on date we have had sex.

Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast we got into an argument and he beat the crap out of me.

Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast my man seems to be content in collecting unemployment, hanging with the boys and smoking weed.

Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast my man is always on Facebook, Twitter, and Skype having conversations with other females.

Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast I’ve been the other woman through TWO of his marriages.

Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast my man moved back into his mama’s house. He is back smoking weed and playing video games all day. I actually caught him with another woman and left him but I always start to feel sorry for him and take him back.

Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast throughout our entire relationship he has never been capable of being faithful. Last year he started an affair and they have been intimate ever since. He has told me on several occasions that he will end the affair but he never has. So I moved out but I still sleep with him from time to time.

Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast I am dating a married man who is possessive of me. Why doesn’t he want me to date anyone else? (Is it just me or is this funny? For some reason, this is funny to me.)

Dear RelationshipBeast this married man comes over to have sex with me once or twice a week.

Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast I have been dealing with a man for the last 12 years who has also has been in a relationship with another woman for about 17 years.

The Thrill Is Gone
Dear Mr. RelationshipBeast when I met my Husband he was married. He cheated on his wife with me. Now, he is cheating on me with another woman.

I have a lot to teach men about relationships and marriage. Remember my principle is, “All relationships and marriages are either successful or they fail based solely on the leadership of men.” I am going to teach men how to be leaders in their marriages, families and communities. I am working on them. But women y’all have got to help me! Y’all have got to stop chasing the thrill of having ANY OLD MALE, not man, ANY OLD MALE in your life. Stop worrying about men chasing women and start worrying about women chasing men. If it is not you, it is your sister, it is your mother, it is your auntie or it is your friend that is on a sexcapade. STOP CHASING MEN! The thrill is not worth the pain. You cannot catch us. We will stiff arm you. I am the RelationshipBeast._


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## Shimmie (Jul 5, 2011)

Food is expensive, so I don't cook.... 

...he does.   

I know a lot of Christian ladies who bend over backwards showing off their cooking and cleaning and creativiity skills, just to compensate for not having sex in a relationship.   It gets tired; they get older and more tired and they end up with nothing.  

The wonderful key is simply being with someone that you just get along with so well, that sex doesn't matter.  Someone that you are 'free' to be with as yourself and not have to put on airs and trying to go down a list of xyz, just to hold on to him.   It is such a waste of time and so unnecessary.     

Of course, as a woman, it's only natural to fix your hair, nails, and to do all of those 'girly girl' things that women do, that's the fun part of being a woman, which is to be a girly girl     :reddancer:

But men love a woman who is comfortable with herself and who is not exhausting herself just to get him, keep him or lose who she is.   He loses respect for her or fears being with her because she appears 'desperate'.    Men can tell when a woman is desperate and they either 'run' or take advantage of her.   Men know that any human being is not up to all of that and that she will soon 'crash' from an overload of 'doing' and 'being' outside of one's normal capacity.     

The Key:  A man feels most comfortable with a woman who is comfortable with who she is and when she is around him.   This is what makes him 'stay'.   He's at home with a woman who respects her human limitations and is able to enjoy being with him as herself and nothing less.  He is able to see his future with her and no one else.   And indeed this is the kind of man God will send into a woman's life.  

No woman has to prove her worth to any man.  When she finds herself doing this, she is with a counterfeit, not the man God has placed into her life. 

Neither Ruth nor Esther had to do this... more than ever, now during this time, neither should any daughter of God such are each of you.  God still betroths His daughters.


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## LifeafterLHCF (Jul 5, 2011)

The article is funny it reminds me of the black church..we women lay it all out for this joker who is rare bc he is in the church black and not gay..If we keep our all expense paid grand prize within our rolling hills closed these jokers would have to step up..and do what is right but I know it would mean being alone longer til a virtuous man comes along but its worth it.I would never sell myself short ever again just to show a dude I can cook or clean or bounce a dang baby..dude if thats all that impresses you,your wack and I don't want you..I want the truly deeply rooted brother who loves Jesus more than he does air and would never disrespect any of Gods precious queens..but I may be alone on this matter..Im feeling way to deeply rooted in God and poetically speaking


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## Shimmie (Jul 5, 2011)

GoddessMaker said:


> The article is funny it reminds me of the black church..we women lay it all out for this joker who is rare bc he is in the church black and not gay..
> 
> *If we keep our all expense paid grand prize within our rolling hills closed these jokers would have to step up..*
> 
> ...



@the bolded....   

Kick the sam's to the curb; they do not get to have the gift of a woman's virtue.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 5, 2011)

Guitarhero yes you are going outside the will of God if he commands you to marry someone and you choose not to, you're now acting in your will and not His. God gives us free will and what that means is that you have the choice to follow Him or not, He doesn't make you do anything, but when you step outside of His will you have to deal with consequences regardless of how good you choice may seem, its the wrong one, following Christ doesn't mean following Him when you want to...

Poohbear yes i know he's a real person lol I put sam in quotes because i don't know if sam is an actual person. I don't believe in putting all the blame on the women, but as GoddessMaker said if women collectively had higher standards then there would be nothing for the sams to turn to and in that respect we are partly to blame...

As i said if a man wants to go he will go whether you give him sex or not, cater to him or not.  Yes you should show your worth, and doing so doesn't make you counterfeit, you're simply showing who you are and that dictates how you'll be treated and what value he places on you, and if you disagree with that value you can walk. I don't care if i'm the only one, but there is no way i'm marrying a man without God saying he is your husband because not only is it a lifetime committment but i'm joining my soul with that person and i need to know its the right person and despite what I may feel towards that man only God knows that, and to be honest i am quite shocked that that's a foreign concept to many of you ladies because its so common where I am, and in my church. There's a woman in my church who met a really good guy, he's on fire for God, 35+ year old virgin, great job, very financially secure and has a phD and they get along really well, they share common goals desires and outlook on life and when they both sort the lord about each other they both heard from God that's not your spouse and they both moved on regardless of how they feel for each other they chose to obey God and not go further with their relationship...


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## Guitarhero (Jul 5, 2011)

OP, G-d will never command me to marry someone.  That is not biblical.  Marriage is a choice and a gift and one can enter into it if one so desires.  He has never commanded me to marry someone and I do not believe He ever will.  Well, all I can say is that I'm in G-d's will for my life and whatever it is that He wants you to do, then do so and with thanksgiving...as we all should.  We simply part at that point.


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## aribell (Jul 5, 2011)

So, the author's perspective wasn't as terrible as I thought it would be.  His idea that you have to "show your woman" up front is flawed not because we shouldn't display our character, but because it is saying, "You need to be in a hurry to impress him so he doesn't go and have sex with someone who's willing."  C'mon now, that's hardly a worthwhile perspective to embrace.  

Men learn about a woman _over time_.  If he is not willing to invest time and energy into learning more about her, then he really isn't deeply interested in her.  If his attitude is that he needs to know _now_ everything that could possibly make him want to stay, that says that he's really just in it for what he can get and doesn't have the patience to stick it out for the long haul.

It seems that if a man is seriously and properly pursuing a woman, he will discover her strengths and weaknesses as things unfold.  But if he's sitting back like an American Idol judge saying "You got 30 seconds--Wow me," he won't be worth keeping around.


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## brg240 (Jul 5, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> Guitarhero yes the lord does tell who is your husband (he told me, and my bf's parents) and as in all things we are to obey Him, regardless of whether you think that person is a good match for you or not, God knows what's best for you and when it comes to something that's a lifetime commitment i think its folly to not take the backseat to God, you can't be outside the will of God and still want him to bless your marriage, because it will ultimately lead to divorce.



disgtgyal I know some people don't believe this and i don't think it happens for everyone but God told my mom she was going to marry my dad. She didn't even know him at the time.  I think that must be nice. /ot


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## Laela (Jul 6, 2011)

^^^ I believe in messianic visions and that God could guide someone to marry someone in particular, for a reason. I've heard stories like these, and I agree it's a rare occurrence. Still, God equips us with enough of a value system or guidance to make a decision on whom to marry and gives us that choice. Ruth 'positioned' herself to be found. Boaz had his eye on Ruth, but was an honorable man. He wasn't aware of her interest until she made an effort at the guidance of her MIL, making a way for the marriage to take place. Marriage is a lifetime commitment, just like with a Covenant with God. If more folks would take marriage as seriously as Jews do...whew. Amein...


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## LucieLoo12 (Jul 6, 2011)

Ok, Sam is carnal...(minding the things of the flesh)....He said he needs to "see it upfront", so obviously He doesnt pray or acknowledge God about choices he makes. He goes by what he sees or feels...ummmm i think I would pass on Sam. and if Sam is sleeping around like that, he obviously isnt Chrisitian, which means, I wouldnt be unequally yoked anyway. AND, im not going to prove you im a good wife but cooking you a meal...They are some christian women, who may not be the best cook, but does that mean they wont be a good wife because they r not the best cooks. I want a man that would admire my inner qualities more..IMO


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## JinaRicci (Jul 6, 2011)

Yes there are Sams in the church but they don't cause a blip on my radar and I don't do it for them either.  If we think that all men are Sams then that's all we'll ever see and ever get.  I don't see how acting like Martha Stewart is going to keep Sam b/c you're still not meeting what Sam said that he needs.  

In any event, Sam's struggle with celibacy (if he is really trying to overcome this) is between him and God.  The committment to keep your mind & body pure is a committment to God.  It doesn't have anything to do with me or other women in the church.  There will always be a woman around somewhere willing to have sex and it is up to Sam with the help of God to overcome this while he is single because he will be tested even more so once he has committed to one woman in marriage.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 6, 2011)

Laela said:


> ^^^ I believe in messianic visions and that God could guide someone to marry someone in particular, for a reason. I've heard stories like these, and I agree it's a rare occurrence. Still, God equips us with enough of a value system or guidance to make a decision on whom to marry and gives us that choice. Ruth 'positioned' herself to be found. Boaz had his eye on Ruth, but was an honorable man. He wasn't aware of her interest until she made an effort at the guidance of her MIL, making a way for the marriage to take place. Marriage is a lifetime commitment, just like with a Covenant with God. *If more folks would take marriage as seriously as Jews do...whew. Amein...
> *



\
The reality is that divorce is just as common in the Jewish community.  Nobody is immune.


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## Poohbear (Jul 6, 2011)

brg240 said:


> disgtgyal I know some people don't believe this and i don't think it happens for everyone but God told my mom she was going to marry my dad. She didn't even know him at the time.  I think that must be nice. /ot



brg240 - Did your mother elaborate on this? If so, how did she know for a fact that God told her she was going to marry your father without even knowing at the time? How did God come to her? Did she hear an audible voice? Please do tell. I really would like to know.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 9, 2011)

Poohbear i'm not brg240, but I can answer your question as well for my bf's parents God told several ppl in their church that the Lord said you are to marry, so she said one day she got mad and went to God and said how come You told everyone and You didn't tell me, then she said she heard in her spirit that's the husband I chose for you and you are to marry him, so again being upset she said that black man who nuh been to school (she's Jamaican, and they have this thing about being black/ dark means you're ugly) so then she again heard the Lord said what I join together let no man put assunder. They just celibrated their 37 year anniversary.

My personal account is I dated a guy in HS and she broke up because we were going to different colleges, and while I was away at college I drew very close to God and I was seeking Him on every area of my life and He was speaking to me constantly and one say He said (his name) is your husband, and I said what?! we not even together and I liked someone else but w/e a year later we became close again and they started dating, four years we got confirmation from two prophets and someone in our church all on different occasions; so I definitely believe in God choosing your partner.  If you find a mate for yourself and you get married then you're going to have to keep your mate and your marriage, but when God gives you a mate and joins you together, He will keep you.


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## Poohbear (Jul 11, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> Poohbear i'm not brg240, but I can answer your question as well for my bf's parents God told several ppl in their church that the Lord said you are to marry, so she said one day she got mad and went to God and said how come You told everyone and You didn't tell me, then she said she heard in her spirit that's the husband I chose for you and you are to marry him, so again being upset she said that black man who nuh been to school (she's Jamaican, and they have this thing about being black/ dark means you're ugly) so then she again heard the Lord said what I join together let no man put assunder. They just celibrated their 37 year anniversary.
> 
> My personal account is I dated a guy in HS and *she* broke up because we were going to different colleges, and while I was away at college I drew very close to God and I was seeking Him on every area of my life and He was speaking to me constantly and one say He said (his name) is your husband, and I said what?! we not even together and I liked someone else but w/e a year later we became close again and *they* started dating, four years we got confirmation from two prophets and someone in our church all on different occasions; so I definitely believe in God choosing your partner.  If you find a mate for yourself and you get married then you're going to have to keep your mate and your marriage, but when God gives you a mate and joins you together, He will keep you.



disgtgyal

Are you talking about yourself or someone else? The *bolded* words threw me off a bit.  I guess you mean "we" instead of "she" and "we" instead of "they", is that correct?

And was the voice from God audible (like you heard an actual sound) or in your mind? How do you know that what other people said was God saying it?

For example - I've had a few people tell me that my boyfriend is going to be my husband or they'll talk about inviting them to our wedding, but I don't take it seriously. Some of his friends will call me Ms. *His Last Name*. I just take it as those people see us as a good couple together. How would I know if these instances are from God or not?


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## disgtgyal (Jul 11, 2011)

@ poohbear yes your corrections are correct lol, sorry I was in a rush. As for my bf's parents, his mom heard an audible voice.  I on the other just heard it in my spirit, idk its hard to explain the voice of God or when you know its Him speaking. As for other people in the church, well the prophet and prophetess are of God and I've seen other things they've said about others as well as myself come to pass, plus at that point God had already told me, and I never told anyone so for me it was confirmation..


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## Guitarhero (Jul 11, 2011)

^^^So it was the  case with you and a very few others on this list but is not the case for everyone.     I'm glad this was clarified.


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## Shimmie (Jul 11, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> @ poohbear yes your corrections are correct lol, sorry I was in a rush. As for my bf's parents, his mom heard an audible voice.  I on the other just heard it in my spirit, idk its hard to explain the voice of God or when you know its Him speaking.
> 
> As for other people in the church, well the prophet and prophetess are of God and I've seen other things they've said about others as well as myself come to pass, plus *at that point God had already told me, and I never told anyone so for me it was confirmation*..



  @ the bolded.  I'm glad you said this.  It is essential awareness.

Prophecy should always be a confirmation of what God has spoken to 'one' prior, and (either/or) by what He has spoken in His Word.

God has to direct / 'agree' with what a prophet (or prophetess) is speaking into a person's life.  As you follow the prophet's in the Bible, God ALWAYS told them what to speak, prior, and to whom.  The same principle applies today.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 13, 2011)

Guitarhero no it's not the case for everyone but I'm glad it's the case for me because who am I to choose my life's mate only God can do that and because He chose for me I know my marriage will be solid and He will sustain us and I can rest assured it will be forever. IMHO I think such a decision should only be God's, He is the only one who knows an individual can thus can determine who us right for that person. Hey to each their own...

Shimmie Yes I know what a prophet or prophetess says must be confirmed and for me I've received many confirmations lol.


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## Guitarhero (Jul 13, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> Guitarhero no it's not the case for everyone but I'm glad it's the case for me because who am I to choose my life's mate only God can do that and because He chose for me I know my marriage will be solid and He will sustain us and I can rest assured it will be forever. IMHO I think such a decision should only be God's, He is the only one who knows an individual can thus can determine who us right for that person.* Hey to each their own...*
> 
> .


With respect, those are two separate situations we're talking about.  You had an individual prophesy.  Most devout christians seek G-d's face in the matter of marriage but do not receive an "iron clad" prophesy.  What you implied was that a person is outside G-d's will for not acting upon a prophesy.  That could be the case.  However, not all people receive prophesies as to who their mate is.  Not all people receive prophesies as to what their vocation in life is going to be either.  And it could be that He has a specific plan for your couplehood in the world with the events throughout that couplehood, for better or worse, as being the completion of His will.   Perfection is not the guarantee.  But G-d's will is the guarantee.  To each his own, surely...and to mine, I seek G-d's face.  But I do not believe He will *command me* to marry someone as He has supposedly commanded you because marriage in my church is a freely offered gift and one enters in with full will or it is invalid.  Vows are never forced, not even by G-d.  He leads us all differently.


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## aribell (Jul 13, 2011)

I believe that more Christians could experience the Lord's leading in supernatural ways if they were willing to believe that He'd give it and if they'd believe the word they were given.   I don't think we can seek "words" from the Lord to avoid having to make tough decisions.  But I do think there's definitely more room for His active leading than is generally experienced.  

Sent from my LS670 using LS670


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## Laela (Jul 13, 2011)

Interesting that you say that.... _willing vessels_ make Godly decisions purely on the basis of asking God for direction before making a move. I had receive this very Word on Sunday. Bible is full of lessons on hearing from God and choosing not to obey Him. Jonah. Amein.




nicola.kirwan said:


> I believe that more Christians could experience the Lord's leading in supernatural ways if they were willing to believe that He'd give it and if they'd believe the word they were given.   I don't think we can seek "words" from the Lord to avoid having to make tough decisions.  But I do think there's definitely more room for His active leading than is generally experienced.
> 
> Sent from my LS670 using LS670


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## Shimmie (Jul 13, 2011)

disgtgyal said:


> [Shimmie Yes I know what a prophet or prophetess says must be confirmed and for me I've received many confirmations lol.



 That's why I like your post.  

For me, your post was 'confirmation.'


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## disgtgyal (Jul 16, 2011)

Guitarhero I do believe if God gives you a prophesy which says you are to do xyz and you choose not to, which your free will enables you to do, then yes you are outside the will of God. Free will is a gift from God and you can choose to obey Him or not. Yes I believe God has a specific purpose for our couplehood, but I also believe that is the case for whomever He joins together while we enjoy many benefits of being married ultimately it's for the glory of God because as children of God we are not our own. I am well aware that marriage isn't easy especially one that's ordained by God because you will face opposition from the enemy but I must disagree with you when you said it won't be perfect, because to me perfection means you're lacking in nothing and I believe my marriage will be lacking in nothing as long as we walk in His will. You said in an earlier post that you've never heard God forcing anyone down the isle, well as far as I know God doesn't force anyone to obey Him. I do agree with you that marriage is to be entered into of your own free will or it's void whether it's ordained or not, which is why we are to accept in our hearts whom He chose for us before the vows are exchanged. I hope I haven't offended you or come off judgmental because that isn't my intent. 

Sent from my iPod touch using LHCF


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## Guitarhero (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm not offended at all.


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## Sharpened (Jul 18, 2011)

After reading this thread, the story of Hosea and Gomer struck me. Obedience is rarely convenient, pretty, logical (to the human mind), easy, etc. and what that prophet went through with his wife is a great example of it.


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## aribell (Jul 18, 2011)

I was listening to Randy Carlson's radio program earlier today.  It was "marriage monday" and as the callers talked about their best marriage memories, I was very much touched by the stories of genuine Christ-like, sacrificial love--the type of love that one only has if Christ is abiding deeply within you.  And I saw more clearly how easy it is to fret about finding "someone" but miss the fact that you want more than simply _someone_--even a "good" someone--you want a Christ-like someone.  His love flowing through a spouse is worth waiting for--it's worth passing up the men with lukewarm hearts toward God and selfish hearts toward you--even if their attitude is culturally accepted.  I think that if a woman can get to the place where she is looking to Jesus as the source of all love and good that she could ever want, then she will naturally filter out all the men who are not operating in the flow of His Spirit.


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## disgtgyal (Jul 18, 2011)

Nymphe said:


> After reading this thread, the story of Hosea and Gomer struck me. Obedience is rarely convenient, pretty, logical (to the human mind), easy, etc. and what that prophet went through with his wife is a great example of it.


SO true, I wonder how many of us women would obey God if He told us to marry a man, whom you saw as less than desirable.
nicola.kirwan I agree, women definitely need to look to Jesus and she will truly know her worth and she will be a lot less likely to compromise... Also, being around and listening to Christian couples (not your lukewarm Christians, but those who are truly dedicated and surrendered to Him) especially ones that have been married for many years, is truly a blessing. There's something different about their love for each other, it transcends lust and convenience, security and stability, its indescribable, and when you're blessed enough to be around that kind of love it inspires you to wait for, if you haven't already met your God- given mate.


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## Chrissmiss (Jul 25, 2011)

Sam is not the type of man any Christian woman should want... so the article kinda threw me for a loop. A Christian woman should not feel like she is loosing points with a man because she is not putting out... that is hogwash. If you have submitted your life to Christ and your are confident in who He has made you (personality, likes/dislikes, apperance) then you will have no trouble finding a good man of God when the time comes. If God is first in your life then you will be an excellent help meet to your future husband. And and as far as cooking, cleanind, yada yada... we all should know how to do these things (male and female), and should be willing to use these skills to serve and love on others with. Being a good wife is not about cooking and cleaning... its about loving, supporting, encouraging, correcting, etc.


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## lettieg27 (Aug 15, 2011)

I am not trying to offend anyone but I think alot of us as women have the wrong idea about this article. Disregarding that Sam is not the man you want to marry, you have to think how will I act when I do met the man I want to marry. Women we have to remember that men are not willing to commit to a women who they do not think will make a good wife, meaning that you have to show him what you would be like as a wife. I think feminism has really made it hard for us as women to understand our role in a marriage, cooking and cleaning for your man are ways to so that you appreciate him and that you will take care of him not old-fashioned ideas of oppression. Just having good conversation is not going to get you a husband. Im not saying that you should be a slave to realize that if you want your man to do traditional things for you that you must be willing to do traditional things for him.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Aug 17, 2011)

As the old saying goes; 'why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free'?

He still doesn't need to marry me if I can cook for him, wash his clothes, massage his ego etc., more than likely he'll marry the girl that he's getting some on the side with...


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Aug 17, 2011)

I once heard a pastor say he saw a woman that he knew was to be his wife, she lived in a different settlement than he did, he told her of his intentions and she laughed him off...He told her parents and five years later they were married ...

I firmly believe that a virtuous woman does not need to put herself 'out there' in anyway...she is 'sought' after and does not need to compromise her position with God...

A man of God a man a man of valor knows this he prays, seeks,admires, courts and then marries her...

Any pastor that preaches that you need to 'test' the waters before you get married is contrary to the will of God...


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## disgtgyal (Aug 22, 2011)

lettieg27 said:


> I am not trying to offend anyone but I think alot of us as women have the wrong idea about this article. Disregarding that Sam is not the man you want to marry, you have to think how will I act when I do met the man I want to marry. Women we have to remember that men are not willing to commit to a women who they do not think will make a good wife, meaning that you have to show him what you would be like as a wife. I think feminism has really made it hard for us as women to understand our role in a marriage, cooking and cleaning for your man are ways to so that you appreciate him and that you will take care of him not old-fashioned ideas of oppression. Just having good conversation is not going to get you a husband. Im not saying that you should be a slave to realize that *if you want your man to do traditional things for you that you must be willing to do traditional things for him*.



Could not have said it better, finally someone gets it, particularly the bolded part


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## lilanie (Aug 25, 2011)

I think the article makes some interesting points, and even people who have different perspectives can teach us things.

With that said, "Sam" and his cohorts will never compel me to be traditional in the sense of showing him I can properly wash whites/lights/darks or whip up a four course meal.  Because the man I do all that for will have had to made the sacrifice (if that's what he decides to call it when annoyed with me) of marrying me.  Period.  

Just because a man has all the signs of potentially being the best mate ever does not mean should be treated as such.

Because as I am learning, even in my mid-30's; not everybody deserves everything from *you*


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