# Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo Doll



## Ithacagurl (Feb 21, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NYp_il0Qzc&feature=player_embedded


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## Shimmie (Feb 21, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Ithacagurl said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NYp_il0Qzc&feature=player_embedded



I have such a hard time 'listening' to rap.   I don't understand what they are saying. 

HOWEVER... I thank you Precious Ithacagurl for sharing this message.  

Please don't pay me any mind.  I just want it in plain English. 

Blessings to you loved one...


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## Ithacagurl (Feb 21, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

I had to listen closely as well


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## loolalooh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Their message is a good one.  "Should I listen to Scripture, or should I follow you (e.g., false preachers)."

I just can't get into Christian rap, though.  I blame secular rap for stealing my ears first.


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## Rainbow Dash (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

They preached just in rap and it is true. Paul warned many times that they would come in, even from among you and preach heresy. See the enemy is subtle, he throws in a little heresy and mix it with a little truth. Just like he tried to do Jesus when He was in the wilderness.

This is why it is important to spend time studying the scriptures and study them in context. See this is why Paul said, "follow me as I follow Christ." Well in order for you to know that Paul was following Christ, you need to know Christ for yourself. Also, He said if anyone preaches a different gospel or a different Christ let him be accursed. Because a little leaven is dangerous, a little twist is dangerous. That's what the enemy does. If you don't pay attention you can miss it.


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## aribell (Feb 22, 2012)

Wow, good for him.  At at the end, he said explicitly who he was talking about and that those congregants needed to come out.

I think a song like this would only work as a rap song...or maybe country, lol.


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## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Rap gives me an 'instant' headache.   Just speak plain English.  Why be different just to feel important or that one has something over another culture?    

Maybe it's the 'teacher' in me... Naw, it's not 'maybe'... it is most definitely the teacher in me.  Speak English!  And by that I'm not saying 'speak' white; for whites do not own clear dialect.   I know many Blacks, especially Africans and Native Jamaicans, etc. who speak very clear and articulate language and far above whites. (you should hear some of the white folks I have work with and lived around ... can't speak a word of clear English.  ).  

If 'you' want my attention, speak like you have some sense.  I'll listen.  

Sorry everyone.  Whatever message these men are trying to convey has totally 'lost' me.   They seem intelligent enough.  

Sorry for the vent... I love you, Ladies.   I really do.   _Shimmie _just doesn't like rap...that's all.   It's so unnecessary!


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## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



nicola.kirwan said:


> Wow, good for him.  *At at the end, he said explicitly who he was talking about and that those congregants needed to come out.*I think a song like this would only work as a rap song...or maybe country, lol.



  Yeah, at the end, but why not at the beginning?  They wasted an entire video ...  

This is not addressed to you, Nicola... okay?  Not at all.    I just cannot tolerate rap; it just a foolish waste of intelligence.


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## Lissa0821 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

I am a BOLD, PROUD member of World Changers Church International, where Creflo Dollar is the pastor.  I have been there for the past 16 years and have no intention to leave anytime soon.  When I see post like these it grieves me, not just because it is my Pastor that is being slander. But it is yet another tool of the enemy to create division. It also shows a lack of sensitivity as I would like to believe most people who are members of their local church, think highly of their pastors, are they just as willing to post the negative things that are said about thier own pastor.  Probably not, but trust and believe something negative is said about every pastor that preaches or teaches the gospel, if there are 5 member or  50 thousand members and whether it is valid complaint or not. 

Granted, I will be the first to say, Pastor Dollar teaching style is not for everyone, that is a given but it is for those God has called to be apart of this GREAT, AWESOME, and ANOINTED ministry. (Can you tell I LOVE this ministry).  According to Ephesians 4:11, God gave us apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers for the edifying and perfecting of the body of Christ. Even God knew people receive His Word through different gifting he placed in the body of Christ.  

Now for on to the video, I completely got what he was saying and I laughed out loud as well.  These young men can claiming both churches mentioned are teaching false doctrines. He specifically stated that  Pastor Dollar only teaches about prosperity but in the upper left hand corner he has a request for a donation of $25 for his ministry in white letters.  

If teaching prosperity is wrong, he should be able to do what he is doing without the $25 donation, right??????


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## JayAnn0513 (Feb 22, 2012)

I don't see a connection between prosperity ministry ANC asking for a donation. Prosperity ministry teaches that God rewards with $$$ which we all know is not sound doctrine.

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> I am a BOLD, PROUD member of World Changers Church International, where Creflo Dollar is the pastor.  I have been there for the past 16 years and have no intention to leave anytime soon.  When I see post like these it grieves me, not just because it is my Pastor that is being slander. But it is yet another tool of the enemy to create division. It also shows a lack of sensitivity as I would like to believe most people who are members of their local church, think highly of their pastors, are they just as willing to post the negative things that are said about thier own pastor.  Probably not, but trust and believe something negative is said about every pastor that preaches or teaches the gospel, if there are 5 member or  50 thousand members and whether it is valid complaint or not.
> 
> Granted, I will be the first to say, Pastor Dollar teaching style is not for everyone, that is a given but it is for those God has called to be apart of this GREAT, AWESOME, and ANOINTED ministry. (Can you tell I LOVE this ministry).  According to Ephesians 4:11, God gave us apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers for the edifying and perfecting of the body of Christ. Even God knew people receive His Word through different gifting he placed in the body of Christ.
> 
> ...



  Hi Lissa0821...  That's the other thing that gave me a headache... $25 for a T Shirt.   I couldn't make sense of that.   

Lissa, I may not 'support' many of the mega ministries, however I have to say that I've met some of the most wonderful people who love Jesus who are members there and Lissa you are definitely one of them.  

I pray that my non-support of the big Churches does fail to show you that I truly hold you as a wonderful woman who knows and loves God that I am most happy that God has allowed me to meet and pray with.   You have my heart on this.   I also apologize for every offence that I have personally directed towards these Churches.


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## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> I am a BOLD, PROUD member of World Changers Church International, where Creflo Dollar is the pastor. I have been there for the past 16 years and have no intention to leave anytime soon. When I see post like these it grieves me, not just because it is my Pastor that is being slander. But it is yet another tool of the enemy to create division. It also shows a lack of sensitivity as I would like to believe most people who are members of their local church, think highly of their pastors, are they just as willing to post the negative things that are said about thier own pastor. Probably not, but trust and believe something negative is said about every pastor that preaches or teaches the gospel, if there are 5 member or 50 thousand members and whether it is valid complaint or not.
> 
> Granted, I will be the first to say, Pastor Dollar teaching style is not for everyone, that is a given but it is for those God has called to be apart of this GREAT, AWESOME, and ANOINTED ministry. (Can you tell I LOVE this ministry). According to Ephesians 4:11, God gave us apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers for the edifying and perfecting of the body of Christ. Even God knew people receive His Word through different gifting he placed in the body of Christ.
> 
> ...



Hello Lissa, I can definitely understand your point of view and why you are upset.  Please understand that point of view of those who are posting the message and those who created the video...which is that heretical teaching can be dangerous and lead people away from Christ and into idolatry.   know you have been a member of the ministry for 16 years, but are you are you open to discussing scriptures that teach why prosperity doctrine is not sound doctrine?

ETA: Lissa we are waiting if you want to discuss.  I have noticed somethings in the bible about true prosperity from a scriptural  point of view, and it's different than what is being taught by the word faith movement.  I hope that you are open to discuss it.


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## Laela (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

IMHO, heresy (or error) could be taught in any church... unwittingly or not.  What are ya'll thoughts on this?  

_"Another thing that God has been speaking to me about is the Christian rap movement and how some of it disses the Church of God. In my dealings with many Christian rappers or rap fans, I have seen a new spirit that is rising up through the enemy's influence. Dissing the Church is a very dangerous move to make. In your music or in your everyday conversations, we must not speak negatively about God's church. God is gonna operate through his church, no matter what we think or feel. Many have been hurt by negative experiences through churches, but that does not make the church of God a bad place. Yeah, the church has problems, but the easy way to keep the problems from being solved or dealt with is for us to only talk against each other and never work together. And God will NEVER change his order. You must submit to the authority of a Pastor before you will be effective in any ministry. A man that cannot follow, will never lead! There are so many people these days talking about what God is showing them, or what God is telling them, but they never follow the order of God. God will not tell you to do anything without confirming it through others. And God will never defy the order of his Kingdom or his church. That's why you see so many people constantly changing what they say was God's will for them. Without the protective covering of your pastor, you are dangerous to God. You are like a child holding a loaded shotgun. You are a spiritual bastard and your ministry will only give birth to bastard followers! I know that sounds harsh, but the word "bastard" means "fatherless" and if you have not submitted to your Pastor, you have no spiritual father! You are not ready to do ministry on any level if you have not submitted to leadership. The church is your home base for your ministry. So we cannot diss the church in our raps or in our conversations because God is gonna work through the church before he works through you. 

... Glorify God in your music, not the Hip Hop culture. Do not use secular music to reach the lost because it will not do the job. Only the Spirit of God can draw sinners to salvation.
_
*-G Craige Lewis*


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## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> *IMHO, heresy (or error) could be taught in any church... unwittingly or not. What are ya'll thoughts on this?*
> 
> "Another thing that God has been speaking to me about is the Christian rap movement and how some of it disses the Church of God. In my dealings with many Christian rappers or rap fans, I have seen a new spirit that is rising up through the enemy's influence. Dissing the Church is a very dangerous move to make. In your music or in your everyday conversations, we must not speak negatively about God's church. God is gonna operate through his church, no matter what we think or feel. Many have been hurt by negative experiences through churches, but that does not make the church of God a bad place. Yeah, the church has problems, but the easy way to keep the problems from being solved or dealt with is for us to only talk against each other and never work together. And God will NEVER change his order. You must submit to the authority of a Pastor before you will be effective in any ministry. A man that cannot follow, will never lead! There are so many people these days talking about what God is showing them, or what God is telling them, but they never follow the order of God. God will not tell you to do anything without confirming it through others. And God will never defy the order of his Kingdom or his church. That's why you see so many people constantly changing what they say was God's will for them. Without the protective covering of your pastor, you are dangerous to God. You are like a child holding a loaded shotgun. You are a spiritual bastard and your ministry will only give birth to bastard followers! I know that sounds harsh, but the word "bastard" means "fatherless" and if you have not submitted to your Pastor, you have no spiritual father! You are not ready to do ministry on any level if you have not submitted to leadership. The church is your home base for your ministry. So we cannot diss the church in our raps or in our conversations because God is gonna work through the church before he works through you.
> 
> ...



Yep @ the bolded.  My old pastors KNOWs the word of God, but one day I heard him say something completely contrary to the word...and none of the members agreed with him...and he has has prophetic gifting too.  No man is above reproach.  The bible says, "let God be true, and every man be a liar."  Romans 3:4, so every church is subject to error.  We have to be accountable to sticking exactly to what the word says...if we don't we will all be misled.  As far as his comments about rap, eh...I think it's opinion.  The gospel is the gospel whether its preached, sang, yelled, acted...as long as it is true to the word of God i see nothing wrong with it. Paul said to preach the gospel to the Jews, he became like the Jews, to reach the gentiles, he became like the gentiles...he had all things in common with all men to win some 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.  Christian rap is winning a lot of young men without compromise.

I agree with Pastor Lewis about the negative messages against the church in general...but I heard a lot of christian rap that just gives you verbatim the scriptures without attacking the church.  I listen to Lecrae and 116 who are becoming more and more mainstream, I never heard them dis the church in a single song.  It's all scripture.   I don't see anything wrong with calling out those who erroneously teach...that is what God commanded in Ezekiel 13:2-30, Ezekiel 34.  False teaching has eternal consequences...we can't stay quiet.  We have to tell people the truth...because if we don't their blood will be on our hands (Ezekiel 33). God will hold us accountable.

I think the main point I'm trying to say is that we must remain students of the word and stick to it.  It reminds me of this scripture in Ephesians 4:14. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming."  When remember when I  believed everything I read.  I even had some of Creflo's books among others. But now I know as  long as I can read for myself and I have the holy spirit, he will lead us to all truth.


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## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> IMHO, heresy (or error) could be taught in any church... unwittingly or not.  What are ya'll thoughts on this?
> 
> _"Another thing that God has been speaking to me about is the Christian rap movement and how some of it disses the Church of God. In my dealings with many Christian rappers or rap fans, I have seen a new spirit that is rising up through the enemy's influence. Dissing the Church is a very dangerous move to make. In your music or in your everyday conversations, we must not speak negatively about God's church. God is gonna operate through his church, no matter what we think or feel. Many have been hurt by negative experiences through churches, but that does not make the church of God a bad place. Yeah, the church has problems, but the easy way to keep the problems from being solved or dealt with is for us to only talk against each other and never work together. And God will NEVER change his order. You must submit to the authority of a Pastor before you will be effective in any ministry. A man that cannot follow, will never lead! There are so many people these days talking about what God is showing them, or what God is telling them, but they never follow the order of God. God will not tell you to do anything without confirming it through others. And God will never defy the order of his Kingdom or his church. That's why you see so many people constantly changing what they say was God's will for them. Without the protective covering of your pastor, you are dangerous to God. You are like a child holding a loaded shotgun. You are a spiritual bastard and your ministry will only give birth to bastard followers! I know that sounds harsh, but the word "bastard" means "fatherless" and if you have not submitted to your Pastor, you have no spiritual father! You are not ready to do ministry on any level if you have not submitted to leadership. The church is your home base for your ministry. So we cannot diss the church in our raps or in our conversations because God is gonna work through the church before he works through you.
> 
> ...



Why couldn't he just say 'Fatherless' in the first place.    

Lord.... Precious Craige...  

I agree with him about the rap music and being without a Church home and Pastor.  

However the Word says, 'Submit yourselves unto God ..." (James 4:7).  

And yes, I know there is scripture which says, _'Submit yourselves unto one another..." _  and there's another scripture which says, _'Submit yourselves unto Authority..."  _

What concerns me is that there are 'Strong willed' Pastors who 'insist' that their members be 'submitted' to them.   And I am very careful when I 'hear' this. 

_Pausing...   _

I'll resume later...

_'Unpaused' ..._

Up to what point do they _'want'_ their congregations submission?   I understand loyalty... 

_Pausing ..._


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## Lissa0821 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> Hi @Lissa0821...  That's the other thing that gave me a headache... $25 for a T Shirt.   I couldn't make sense of that.
> 
> Lissa, I may not 'support' many of the mega ministries, however I have to say that I've met some of the most wonderful people who love Jesus who are members there and Lissa you are definitely one of them.
> 
> I pray that my non-support of the big Churches does fail to show you that I truly hold you as a wonderful woman who knows and loves God that I am most happy that God has allowed me to meet and pray with.   You have my heart on this.   I also apologize for every offence that I have personally directed towards these Churches.



Shimmie  I love you and I am not offended by anything that has been said about my Pastor here on this board or in my personal life.  Nothing can separate me from the Love of God since He has accepted and love me, I strive to do the same with others.  

Plus, Pastor shared this statement during a service years ago and it stuck with me because I use to stay in "offense" about everything.  He said It is a dangerous thing to be offended.  It means you have taken your eyes "off of God and "ended" you ability to hear from Him, when you allow yourself to be "Offended". 

Big church, little church I really don't think it makes a difference.  I think wherever you go, when the pastor preaches or teaches you can hear the voice of the Holy Spirit ministering to your personal situation then you are where you need to be.  He is a Big God and a personal God at the same time,  whereever you are that encourages you to further your personal relationship God is the right church for you. It never ceases to amaze me that after 16 years, no matter how many people are in the dome, no matter which pastor is preaching at any given service that I hear something that directly pertains to me.  I am sure many can understand what I am saying, it feels like Pastor is all up in my "situation" but its God ministering to you through a vessel you will hear from, that is all that matters.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

God really doesn't need our help, we don't need to make him 'relevant' his word is to be reached in and out of season, I don't know why the church feels it neccessary to make God for 'appealing' to the younger generation the said I am the Lord who changeth not who is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, which means he doesn't come to our level we have to come* up* to his, his word also says that we should lift him up and HE will do the drawing ...





Laela said:


> _... Glorify God in your music, not the Hip Hop culture. Do not use secular music to reach the lost because it will not do the job. Only the Spirit of God can draw sinners to salvation._
> 
> *-G Craige Lewis*


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## Rainbow Dash (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

The issue here is not whether you think Christian rap is of God. I'm not into rap myself but the message they are preaching. Is it sound? Does it line up with scripture? Is it leading people to Christ, the Christ of the bible? 

What about SOUND DOCTRINE? and Laela you are right, error can happen in any church. If I'm teaching error then please correct me. Why are we looking just at the rappers and not looking at the spirit of error (prosperity doctrine) that is running rampant in the church. The spirit of idolatry that is being preached. The warnings that were given to us in the bible and yet we will not take a closer look. We are soo caught up in names, that we won't check the doctrine. There are numerous youtube videos that tell the truth regarding these people but do we really take a look and weigh it with the Word?


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## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> Shimmie  I love you and I am not offended by anything that has been said about my Pastor here on this board or in my personal life.  Nothing can separate me from the Love of God since He has accepted and love me, I strive to do the same with others.
> 
> Plus, Pastor shared this statement during a service years ago and it stuck with me because I use to stay in "offense" about everything.  He said It is a dangerous thing to be offended.  It means you have taken your eyes "off of God and "ended" you ability to hear from Him, when you allow yourself to be "Offended".
> 
> Big church, little church I really don't think it makes a difference.  I think wherever you go, when the pastor preaches or teaches you can hear the voice of the Holy Spirit ministering to your personal situation then you are where you need to be.  He is a Big God and a personal God at the same time,  whereever you are that encourages you to further your personal relationship God is the right church for you. It never ceases to amaze me that after 16 years, no matter how many people are in the dome, no matter which pastor is preaching at any given service that I hear something that directly pertains to me.  I am sure many can understand what I am saying, it feels like Pastor is all up in my "situation" but its God ministering to you through a vessel you will hear from, that is all that matters.



 Lissa0821 .. .

Your 'fruit' has never ceased to demonstrate the love of God, your faith in God and your trust in Him.    You have 'faith' sense.   You lean not to your own understanding.  I have personally witnessed by your testimony of your total surrender to God and allowing Him to discern through you in all of the areas of your life that you have shared. 

I never knew, nor never had a clue that you were a member of Creflo Dollar's Church.   This speaks volumes, for the only person you ever speak of is Jesus and your love for God, not man.   

So what has this taught me.  Another lesson in Christ Jesus... truly you have brought to light the scripture, 

"Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers..."  (Luke 6:44) 

Lissa, people come to you, for 'Love'... that's your 'Fruit'.   Your branches bloom of loves' softest petals and blossoms, even in the coldest of 'Winters'.


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## loolalooh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> ... Glorify God in your music, not the Hip Hop culture. *Do not use secular music to reach the lost because it will not do the job. *Only the Spirit of God can draw sinners to salvation.
> [/I]
> *-G Craige Lewis*




I particularly agree with the bolded.  I can only speak of Christian rap, since I have experience in having listened to secular rap and know the demographic of rap listeners.  Secular rap is attractive because of the secular message (i.e., money, women, lifestyle).  When you take a Christian message and dress it up in rap, it simply won't effectively reach secular rap listeners who are not Christians.  Why?  Because of the Christian message.  These rap listeners will not be fooled by the "rap" dressing.  Even in secular rap, rappers who preach "more worldly" messages are more successful than those who preach "less worldly" messages.

Then we have the issues of Christians, like myself, who like/liked secular rap and cannot remove our experiences with it in order to connect to Christian rap.  Though, I liked the message of the video, I couldn't help but laugh at times because I found myself comparing them to secular rap artists in terms of lyrical style, back beat, etc.

IMHO, dressing up a Christian song in rap will not effectively reach the lost.  The lost will laugh.  The lost proves this by idolizing rappers who preach the devil's message.  The Drakes and Lil Wayne's of the world beat out the Common's and Talib's of the world.  (NOTE: Drake and Lil Wayne are a few of the top secular rappers who also happen to be the most worldly of the bunch.)


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## Lissa0821 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> Hello Lissa, I can definitely understand your point of view and why you are upset.  Please understand that point of view of those who are posting the message and those who created the video...which is that heretical teaching can be dangerous and lead people away from Christ and into idolatry.   know you have been a member of the ministry for 16 years, but are you are you open to discussing scriptures that teach why prosperity doctrine is not sound doctrine?
> 
> ETA: Lissa we are waiting if you want to discuss.  I have noticed somethings in the bible about true prosperity from a scriptural  point of view, and it's different than what is being taught by the word faith movement.  I hope that you are open to discuss it.



sidney,  Sure I am open to discuss prosperity but I must say God started the conversation of Prosperity not Creflo Dollar, when he showed up in Genesis 12:1-3 speaking with Abram.  I am aware of the accusations that the teaching of World Changers Church International are based on financial prosperity only.  But that is so far from the truth, we are taught total life prosperity which entails, healing, wholeness, soundness of body and mind, preservation from destruction, salvation of family, enjoying the presence of the Holy Spirit, taking authority over demonic forces, list goes on and yes it includes material wealth as well.  

Prosperity is God's delight for us as believers, I know this from John 2:3, which states He wants to prosper and be in health even as my soul prospers.  This shows God is concerned about my physical, health and soul prosperity.  

Psalm 112 talks about the man that fears and delights in the commandment of God and its reward.  His kids are blessed, wealth and riches are in his house. He is gracious, shows favor and is able to lend to others.  He is not fearful as he trust in God.  He is exalted with honor. 

The list of scriptures goes on and on, prosperity is absolutely the WILL of God for me, that is a settled issue in my heart for me.


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## Rainbow Dash (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> IMHO, heresy (or error) could be taught in any church... unwittingly or not. What are ya'll thoughts on this?
> 
> _"Another thing that God has been speaking to me about is the Christian rap movement and how some of it disses the Church of God. In my dealings with many Christian rappers or rap fans, I have seen a new spirit that is rising up through the enemy's influence. *Dissing the Church is a very dangerous move to make. In your music or in your everyday conversations, we must not speak negatively about God's church.* God is gonna operate through his church, no matter what we think or feel. Many have been hurt by negative experiences through churches, but that does not make the church of God a bad place. Yeah, the church has problems, but the easy way to keep the problems from being solved or dealt with is for us to only talk against each other and never work together. And God will NEVER change his order. You must submit to the authority of a Pastor before you will be effective in any ministry. A man that cannot follow, will never lead! There are so many people these days talking about what God is showing them, or what God is telling them, but they never follow the order of God. God will not tell you to do anything without confirming it through others. And God will never defy the order of his Kingdom or his church. That's why you see so many people constantly changing what they say was God's will for them. Without the protective covering of your pastor, you are dangerous to God. You are like a child holding a loaded shotgun. You are a spiritual bastard and your ministry will only give birth to bastard followers! I know that sounds harsh, but the word "bastard" means "fatherless" and if you have not submitted to your Pastor, you have no spiritual father! You are not ready to do ministry on any level if you have not submitted to leadership. The church is your home base for your ministry. So we cannot diss the church in our raps or in our conversations because God is gonna work through the church before he works through you. _
> 
> ...


 
Calling out error is not dissing the Church, it is actually warning the Church. If warning against false teachers and teaching is wrong, then Paul should have not taught the Church concerning it. Paul actually called out some names in the scriptures too. 

*How old is this information? @Laela, if you go to G. Craige Facebook, he is continously exposing the most popular names. *

*2 Peter 2:18*
*For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.*

*Matthew 7:15*
*Beware of false prophets* which come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves. .


*2 Peter2*:
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



loolalooh said:


> I particularly agree with the bolded.  I can only speak of Christian rap, since I have experience in having listened to secular rap and know the demographic of rap listeners.  Secular rap is attractive because of the secular message (i.e., money, women, lifestyle).  When you take a Christian message and dress it up in rap, it simply won't effectively reach secular rap listeners who are not Christians.  Why?  Because of the Christian message.  These rap listeners will not be fooled by the "rap" dressing.  Even in secular rap, rappers who preach "more worldly" messages are more successful than those who preach "less worldly" messages.
> 
> Then we have the issues of Christians, like myself, who like/liked secular rap and cannot remove our experiences with it in order to connect to Christian rap.  Though, I liked the message of the video, I couldn't help but laugh at times because I found myself comparing them to secular rap artists in terms of lyrical style, back beat, etc.
> 
> IMHO, dressing up a Christian song in rap will not effectively reach the lost.  The lost will laugh.  The lost proves this by idolizing rappers who preach the devil's message.  The Drakes and Lil Wayne's of the world beat out the Common's and Talib's of the world.  (NOTE: Drake and Lil Wayne are a few of the top secular rappers who also happen to be the most worldly of the bunch.)



I appreciate your opinion Loolalooh but I have to disagree here.  I don't think it's dressing it up.  For example, when I was younger I was nauseated from listening to my grandmother's gospel selection...she played quartets all day lol!  Thank God Hezekiah Walker and others came out, or I may have never got a chance to identify with the gospel and praise!  My grandmother still won't listen to the new people.  It's all a matter of perspective.  

I also have listened to a few christian rock songs.  However people can relate to the gospel, it should be used. But I understand where you are coming from.


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Health&hair28 said:


> There are numerous youtube videos that tell the truth regarding these people but do we really take a look and weigh it with the Word?



I am posting one of these videos, just because I want to people to be "open" to the fact that this twisting does occur, and how subtly its done.  I do not make a habit of watching these videos either, some of them are ridiculous and it is not my hope that we post them here.  But I do ask the favor of everyone just looking at this one video. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRiC__Qttw


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



loolalooh said:


> I particularly agree with the bolded.  I can only speak of Christian rap, since I have experience in having listened to secular rap and know the demographic of rap listeners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



loolalooh ...

The bolded in your post...  

What  profound words of Wisdom.   Meaning 'ain't nobody fooled.  

I'm standing here giving you a 'standing ovation'...   

And these are NOT sugar coated words.   Folks need to get ahold of this.  What you just said is golden.   

'Ain't nobody fooled.'   

Loolalooh... you know what?   I used to put my 'babies' medicine in juice and they were not fooled.   They wouldn't drink it.   And the thing is, I'd put the medicine drops in their juice cups downstairs in the kitchen out of sight, and then take it upstairs... 

And they STILL knew...    They'd take the cup, look at it, look up at me with the 'side-eye' and give it back to me.     They were not fooled.

I love  your post.  It just made my day... Such wisdom.  Praise God.  

You know I thought that I knew everything.     Not this... 

God bless you sweetheart.


----------



## loolalooh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> I appreciate your opinion Loolalooh but I have to disagree here.  I don't think it's dressing it up.  For example, when I was younger I was nauseated from listening to my grandmother's gospel selection...she played quartets all day lol!  Thank God Hezekiah Walker and others came out, or I may have never got a chance to identify with the gospel and praise!  My grandmother still won't listen to the new people.  It's all a matter of perspective.
> 
> I also have listened to a few christian rock songs.  However people can relate to the gospel, it should be used. But I understand where you are coming from.



I understand what you are saying.  I listen to Christian rock songs as well, but I think the reason I can is because I don't have a previous attachment to secular rock music.  I was never that deep into secular rock music, but secular rap music really got into me.

Plus, you and I are both Christians, so we can appreciate the message in a Christian rock/rap/r&b song.  However, what about those who are not Christian?


----------



## Prudent1 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> *Big church, little church I really don't think it makes a difference. I think wherever you go, when the pastor preaches or teaches you can hear the voice of the Holy Spirit ministering to your personal situation then you are where you need to be. He is a Big God and a personal God at the same time, whereever you are that encourages you to further your personal relationship God is the right church for you.* It never ceases to amaze me that after 16 years, no matter how many people are in the dome, no matter which pastor is preaching at any given service that I hear something that directly pertains to me. I am sure many can understand what I am saying, it feels like Pastor is all up in my "situation" but its God ministering to you through a vessel you will hear from, that is all that matters.


Ok, Imma jus go ahead and say this. I do not belong to nor have I ever belonged to a "mega church". I have belonged to some small and some medium sized churches where there was stuff going on from time to time just like in any other family type situation. As a matter of fact I love my present church family yet I am dealing with some mess _R-E-T nigh_. I will walk in agape love though, yes I will **fanning self @ thoughts of current situation** 
The thing is to be _Spirit_ led. I have attended several conferences held by 'mega churches' and I know that God's spirit was present. The whole name it and claim it/ prosperity issue seems to be unbalanced somewhat-IMO. That's _all _they focus on ($$$) and most importantly _there is no fruit _of the Spirit being produced_._ As a matter of fact, they all fall down eventually and are exposed b/c as we know God is not mocked. Out of all the messages I have attended being held by Creflo Dollar, I have never heard him preach and unbalanced prosperity only type message. I have seen ppl post many excerpts online and other places where things were edited and therefore out of context. Besides, what we call 'mega church' is not. Have you read the number of converts or ppl who were following the disciples? Have you seen the number of ppl who attend the meetings in places like India, etc? [email protected] some of us if we attended an event that size. My point is all leader's teachings should be verified by the word. The word says to test the spirits by the Spirit. Prosperity is a natural by product of obedience and faithfulness to our God. Heck he blesses us even when we are not keepin it 100. Simply b/c he loves us. I _know_ I don't deserve the favor and prosperity he has allowed. JMHO

*Plus, Pastor shared this statement during a service years ago and it stuck with me because I use to stay in "offense" about everything. He said It is a dangerous thing to be offended. It means you have taken your eyes "off of God and "ended" you ability to hear from Him, when you allow yourself to be "Offended".* 
I'm going to use this^^It is so true.


----------



## loolalooh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> I am posting one of these videos, just because I want to people to be "open" to the fact that this twisting does occur, and how subtly its done.  I do not make a habit of watching these videos either, some of them are ridiculous and it is not my hope that we post them here.  But I do ask the favor of everyone just looking at this one video.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRiC__Qttw



Watching.  We'll be back in a few.


----------



## loolalooh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> loolalooh ...
> 
> The bolded in your post...
> 
> ...



LOL!  It's the truth.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> I am posting one of these videos, just because I want to people to be "open" to the fact that this twisting does occur, and how subtly its done. I do not make a habit of watching these videos either, some of them are ridiculous and it is not my hope that we post them here. But I do ask the favor of everyone just looking at this one video.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRiC__Qttw


 
sidney 

*This video you posted is exactly what I'm talking about but we as a Church will not take a closer look.*


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Health&hair28 said:


> Calling out error is not dissing the Church, it is actually warning the Church. If warning against false teachers and teaching is wrong, then Paul should have not taught the Church concerning it. Paul actually called out some names in the scriptures too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At the bolded... the thing is he's always calling people out and it ends up being the truth....  

I'm not making fun of this issue; Craige is just 'different'.  He puts it all out there.   Bless his heart.


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



loolalooh said:


> I understand what you are saying.  I listen to Christian rock songs as well, but I think the reason I can is because I don't have a previous attachment to secular rock music.  I was never that deep into secular rock music, but secular rap music really got into me.
> 
> Plus, you and I are both Christians, so we can appreciate the message in a Christian rock/rap/r&b song.  However, what about those who are not Christian?



I think rap has a lot to do with the culture that young black men grow up with.  I love soul music...I love me some Anita Baker...It's a part of who I am.  It's a part of my identity...so when I hear people like LeAndria Johnson sing...it really takes me there!  I'm gone.  I think for young black men...hip hop is the language that they speak.  It's about putting the gospel in a way they can relate to.  It's really all about the uncompromised gospel and getting them saved.  Rap is just a tool.  I think it actually helps more than hinders.  BUT, putting a christian re-write over a secular tunes...that can be a stumbling block for sure!


----------



## loolalooh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> I am posting one of these videos, just because I want to people to be "open" to the fact that this twisting does occur, and how subtly its done.  I do not make a habit of watching these videos either, some of them are ridiculous and it is not my hope that we post them here.  But I do ask the favor of everyone just looking at this one video.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRiC__Qttw



This is a good example.  I would've believed him if it weren't for the Bible sitting next to me.


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> I am posting one of these videos, just because I want to people to be "open" to the fact that this twisting does occur, and how subtly its done.  I do not make a habit of watching these videos either, some of them are ridiculous and it is not my hope that we post them here.  But I do ask the favor of everyone just looking at this one video.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRiC__Qttw



Thanks sidney...  Watching in 'spurts' at my desk.  Will finish at home.


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> I think rap has a lot to do with the culture that young black men grow up with.  I love soul music...I love me some Anita Baker...It's a part of who I am.  It's a part of my identity...so when I hear people like LeAndria Johnson sing...it really takes me there!  I'm gone.  I think for young black men...hip hop is the language that they speak.  It's about putting the gospel in a way they can relate to.  It's really all about the uncompromised gospel and getting them saved.  Rap is just a tool.  I think it actually helps more than hinders.  BUT, putting a christian re-write over a secular tunes...that can be a stumbling block for sure!



I respect how you shared this, regarding rap.     I still don't like rap, it gives me a headache; however I still respect what you are saying here.  

sidney, who's  LeAndria Johnson?


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Prudent1 said:


> Ok, Imma jus go ahead and say this. I do not belong to nor have I ever belonged to a "mega church". I have belonged to some small and some medium sized churches where there was stuff going on from time to time just like in any other family type situation. As a matter of fact I love my present church family yet I am dealing with some mess _R-E-T nigh_. I will walk in agape love though, yes I will **fanning self @ thoughts of current situation**
> The thing is to be _Spirit_ led. I have attended several conferences held by 'mega churches' and I know that God's spirit was present. The whole name it and claim it/ prosperity issue seems to be unbalanced somewhat-IMO. That's _all _they focus on ($$$) and most importantly _there is no fruit _of the Spirit being produced_._ As a matter of fact, they all fall down eventually and are exposed b/c as we know God is not mocked. Out of all the messages I have attended being held by Creflo Dollar, I have never heard him preach and unbalanced prosperity only type message. I have seen ppl post many excerpts online and other places where things were edited and therefore out of context. Besides, what we call 'mega church' is not. Have you read the number of converts or ppl who were following the disciples? Have you seen the number of ppl who attend the meetings in places like India, etc? [email protected] some of us if we attended an event that size. My point is all leader's teachings should be verified by the word. The word says to test the spirits by the Spirit. Prosperity is a natural by product of obedience and faithfulness to our God. Heck he blesses us even when we are not keepin it 100. Simply b/c he loves us. I _know_ I don't deserve the favor and prosperity he has allowed. JMHO
> 
> *Plus, Pastor shared this statement during a service years ago and it stuck with me because I use to stay in "offense" about everything. He said It is a dangerous thing to be offended. It means you have taken your eyes "off of God and "ended" you ability to hear from Him, when you allow yourself to be "Offended".*
> I'm going to use this^^It is so true.



This is what I found out... 

Many of the 'prosperity' preachers have conferences where they take 'classes' on obtaining offerings.   And when  you 'hear' the same message from different ones, using the same techniques, same manner, same words, 

_'Pause'......._

_Pushing away from my keyboard for the moment...._


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## Prudent1 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

Let me just say this in general (def not directed at anyone posting here) I am 100% confident that God's will is for his ppl to not be deceived. So, I like these discussions b/c I pray and I also know that God will reveal the truth of all things to his children. IOW, if I find out tomorrow that Pastor Dollar, my pastor, my mama, whoever is fake, it will not separate me from God. The things I share are my current understanding. I also understand that I am constantly learning and being transformed into His image.


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## SummerSolstice (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

@Lissa0821 Where'd you go? i'm curious to hear more about your church. Just because every time I look up a Creflo video I'm like HUH??? He does seem to preach about prosperity in the WORLD and not in HEAVEN where we are to build our true wealth. Just a thought please give us some insight.

This video for instance did not rub me right. I worked for my pastor and I have watched as God has provided throughout many struggles while he ministers to a LARGE congregation. What inspires me most about my pastor is that he drives a simple 2007 Jeep something or other... and his house is similar to those of most of our congregation. 

The part where he (Creflo) talks about not turning down a Leer Jet and a Rolls Royce? That part just shamed me because there are many MANY Christians who don't eat and could use that money. Why not sell these items and use the money for ministry? It doesn't make sense to me. I have been witness to the fact that true ministry is a struggle, is not easy, and is often accompanied by poverty and a lack of material things.

Please don't be offended, I just want to hear your perspective since you are actually there, and I am not. All I have to go on is what I have heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCS0YHm_58c


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> @sidney,  Sure I am open to discuss prosperity but I must say God started the conversation of Prosperity not Creflo Dollar, when he showed up in Genesis 12:1-3 speaking with Abram.  I am aware of the accusations that the teaching of World Changers Church International are based on financial prosperity only.  But that is so far from the truth, we are taught total life prosperity which entails, healing, wholeness, soundness of body and mind, preservation from destruction, salvation of family, enjoying the presence of the Holy Spirit, taking authority over demonic forces, list goes on and yes it includes material wealth as well.
> 
> Prosperity is God's delight for us as believers, I know this from John 2:3, which states He wants to prosper and be in health even as my soul prospers.  This shows God is concerned about my physical, health and soul prosperity.
> 
> ...




Thank you for sharing your understanding.  I agree with you, and what  Prudent said...God has good plans for us.  Prosperous plans!  But, the  prosperity message today actually in my opinion, paradoxically HINDERS  people from realizing a lot of these things.  Why? Because it teachers  people to seek things first!  It teaches us to use the word and God as  a means to accumulate more stuff for ourselves.  When God's word  says the opposite...he says seek me first!  And all of these things are  ADDED.  When we seek God's face and not his hands, he blesses us.  When  we delight in the Lord(1st commandment) he gives us our desires.  When  we tie love and faithfulness about our necks (second commandment), we  win favor Proverbs 3:3 with God and he causes us to be blessed.  And it's got to be  sincere, God knows our hearts.   We have to truly lay down our lives and give of our selves...God can't use God's word for personal gain.   Let me  show you where I found some real prosperity gospel.

Matthew 19:29
"And every one who has left houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father,  or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for the sake of the gospel, *shall   receive a hundredfold*, and shall inherit life eternal."

The true gospel causes us to lay down our lives and follow him.  John13:38  In fact, it says, it will cost you everything! Luke 14:25-35.  Just like that rich young ruler in that video where Creflo twisted the  scripture.  You can't just give a thousand dollars and get 100,000 like a ATM machine.  We will be turning down some real stuff.  People will lose a lot and suffer for the gospel.  We have to identify with Christ's sufferings.  He didn't die on a cross so that we can get a car.  No, he died so that we can join him in his sufferings...that we may later reign with him.  2 Timothy 2:12.  This is the gospel.  The rich young ruler had to give up everything to be Christ's disciple just like the other 12.  But  he refused. 

But there is more with the Matthew 19:29 scripture above.  As I stated before, he promises  persecutions too.  So that our hearts are not in it for gain, but  because we lay down our lives because we love him...we love his people.  And we do it because he  bought us with a price!  Here's the persecutions part.

Mark 10:30
He not will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age  (homes,  brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--*and with them,  persecutions*) and in the age to come, eternal life. 

He does not tell us what the hundredfold will be!  Is is money? Maybe  for some.  Is it homes, relationships, yes!  But regardless of what it  is...we have to die to self and give up everything to follow him and see what God has for us.  But see I know he is a show off, he has great things in store.  And he wants us to humbly ask for those things...not force them with scripture.  That  is the real gospel.  He spoke this to the disciples.They walked away  from careers to follow God.  They gave up everything.  Yet nowhere in  scripture do I see them naming and claiming wealth, health, and  promotions.  Nope, I see them suffering persecution for the sake of the  gospel.  I see Paul and Timothy with physical illness.  Paul went hungry on several occasions! That's what I see.  BUT...because God is good...he does give  us good things.  When we have a humble attitude and come to him seeking  his will...he gives us MORE than we asked for.  Look at Solomon's  attitude, he asked for wisdom to lead his people.  And what did God do?   He blessed him with wealth greater than any man who has ever lived.   It's really about our hearts.  When he is our delight and our hearts are  right...he gives to us according to his will, not ours!  The prosperity doctrine actually hinders that  by teaching us to gain more and more for self.  In fact, the bible says  that selfish ambition is the root of every evil.  James 4:13.  Instead,  of selfish ambition, he says...seek to esteem others greater than  yourselves, Phillipians 2:3. 

God tells us not to store up treasures on this earth...but prosperity  teachers teach us the opposite. Please what it says  here in I Timothy 6:

 These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 *If anyone teaches  otherwise  and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and  to godly teaching, 4 they  are conceited and understand nothing*. They have an unhealthy  interest  in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife,  malicious talk, evil suspicions 5  and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, *who have been  robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial  gain. *  6*But godliness  with contentment is great gain.* 7  For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of  it. 8 But if we have food  and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 T*hose who want to get rich fall into  temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that  plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds  of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and  pierced themselves with many griefs*. 
*Final  Charge to Timothy*

  11  *But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness,  godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. *12 Fight the good fight of the  faith. Take hold  of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good  confession in the presence of many witnesses.  
---
For some. prosperity doctrine can actually lead away from the faith.  Because people fall into selfish ambition and  idolatry.  And we don't know the spiritual state they are in...we know from scripture will depart from the faith because they were never with us. 2 John 2:19.   Selfish ambition and  Idolatry are listed in the things (Galatians 5:19-23) that will keep  people from inheriting the kingdom of heaven.  These are some of the dangers I find with prosperity teaching...Sorry for the long  post.


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



SummerSolstice said:


> @Lissa0821 Where'd you go? i'm curious to hear more about your church. Just because every time I look up a Creflo video I'm like HUH??? *He does seem to preach about prosperity in the WORLD and not in HEAVEN where we are to build our true wealth.* Just a thought please give us some insight.
> 
> This video for instance did not rub me right. I worked for my pastor and I have watched as God has provided throughout many struggles while he ministers to a LARGE congregation. What inspires me most about my pastor is that he drives a simple 2007 Jeep something or other... and his house is similar to those of most of our congregation.
> 
> ...



These are all great points, thank you for sharing.


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> I respect how you shared this, regarding rap.     I still don't like rap, it gives me a headache; however I still respect what you are saying here.
> 
> @sidney, who's  LeAndria Johnson?



You don't know about Leadria?  You're missing out.  Awesome testimony.  She is a preacher's kid, divorced, single mother who lost her house right before she came on Sunday's Best.  She won, her testimony is "I may have lost my house, but God has a mansion for me."  She really loves the Lord..and she can SAAANG!  Here's her slaying them right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztOUSP8YJ90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf1iyEQ5-tI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHFDGDaFiW4&feature=related


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

LeAndria Johnson was the winner of that sham of a show called Sunday's Best...she can really sing, I pray that she stays grounded...





Shimmie said:


> I respect how you shared this, regarding rap.  I still don't like rap, it gives me a headache; however I still respect what you are saying here.
> 
> @sidney, who's LeAndria Johnson?


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

sidney this my jam right here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVUS7QJbOlU


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## Rainbow Dash (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> LeAndria Johnson was the winner of *that sham of a show called Sunday's Best...*she can really sing, I pray that she stays grounded...


 

at the bolded..  Say What?


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## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> @sidney this my jam right here
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVUS7QJbOlU



Oh my, I'm _Slain_!  Yeeeesssssss!  Jesus!  She must know those Clarke sisters, lol!


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

Health&hair28  I said it, when you have the Pastor Kim Burrell telling a aspiring hopeful to not sing 'churchy' and sing 'sensual' ...screech full stop! something is very wrong...


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## Lissa0821 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

SummerSolstice I am still here, Pastor teaches about everything concerns our lives, and I mean everything.  I think the emphasis of scrutiny that this ministry experiences is his passion for Christians to understand  prosperity is a part of the deal.  It is more than just escaping hell but there is abundant life to be lived (John 10:10) and enjoyed as God's child.  

There is really no way to build prosperity toward Heaven and not experience every other aspect of prosperity of God here on earth.  The bible teaches to seek first the kingdom of God and these "things" shall be added to you (Matthew 6:25).  It is through your meditation of scriptures, scriptural based prayers, yielding to the leadership of God, your tithes and offerings that a believer can expect to experience prosperity here in this world and in the heaven.  Heck like someone else said, God will bless you in spite of you too. Thank God for that.  What I have been taught is prosperity is not just for you to take care you and yours but to further the message of God.  

Now about the Leer Jet and Rolls Royce, at the time of that interview which took place in 2009, I just smiled because a few details were left out.  Yes, the ministry did give Pastor a Rolls Royce as a Pastor appreciation gift.  I had only been at the ministry for a few months at this time in 1996.  The concept to give him the Rolls Royce I believe came from him sharing a teaching about Mark 11:22, which talked about saying with your mouth and believing in your heart.  From what I was told, he was sharing how he was putting this scripture into practice in his own life in believing for a Rolls Royce. I think that is something he saw as too big to have unless God did it for him.  

What is also not shared, the number of testimonies of people who experience some sort of financial increase as what they believe was a direct result of sowing into this gift at the time, from obtaining new cars, new jobs, mortgages paid off and the list goes on.  It was also not shared that there wasn't another corporate Pastor appreciation gift given to Pastor for over 10 years nor that fact there were times Pastor refused to receive a salary. 

Now there will always be poor amongst us, Christian or not.  Philippians 4:19 And my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.  That is God's final word, it is not altered based on what a Pastor chooses to drive or live.


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> @SummerSolstice I am still here, Pastor teaches about everything concerns our lives, and I mean everything.  I think the emphasis of scrutiny that this ministry experiences is his passion for Christians to understand  prosperity is a part of the deal.  It is more than just escaping hell but there is abundant life to be lived (John 10:10) and enjoyed as God's child.
> 
> There is really no way to build prosperity toward Heaven and not experience every other aspect of prosperity of God here on earth.  The bible teaches to seek first the kingdom of God and these "things" shall be added to you (Matthew 6:25).  It is through your meditation of scriptures, scriptural based prayers, yielding to the leadership of God, your tithes and offerings that a believer can expect to experience prosperity here in this world and in the heaven.  Heck like someone else said, God will bless you in spite of you too. Thank God for that.  What I have been taught is prosperity is not just for you to take care you and yours but to further the message of God.
> 
> ...



Lissa, are there parts of your pastor's teaching that you disagree with based on what has been shared here on from your own studies?  Do you see any inconsistencies?   Not so much the jet but the scriptural things.


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## aribell (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm not into rap, but I respect the message.  I used to be more of a purist about such things, including Christian pop/rock.  And then I just decided to listen to the contemporary Christian station and judge by the fruit of it.  And looking at the fruit in my life and that of people in the city who call in to share how the music impacts them spiritually, it's impossible for me to take issue with it.  Not all music may fit in a worship service or sanctuary, but it might still serve a purpose in the message that it communicates.


----------



## Prudent1 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



SummerSolstice said:


> @Lissa0821 Where'd you go? i'm curious to hear more about your church. Just because every time I look up a Creflo video I'm like HUH??? He does seem to preach about prosperity in the WORLD and not in HEAVEN where we are to build our true wealth. Just a thought please give us some insight.
> 
> This video for instance did not rub me right. I worked for my pastor and I have watched as God has provided throughout many struggles while he ministers to a LARGE congregation. What inspires me most about my pastor is that he drives a simple 2007 Jeep something or other... and his house is similar to those of most of our congregation.
> 
> ...


I know this was not directed at me and this question is not directed at you either SumSolso when I say _you_, I don't mean you personally but a general 'you' as all who have contributed to this post. See, this is what I don't understand. If someone posts something on YT as a sermon by whoever but I have in my posession the same message in it's entirety on DVD which is not taken out of context or altered in any way, why is it easier to believe the version shown on YT is accurate? I guess I'm just strange when it comes to stuff like that. I was having this convo IRL when I asked the other person if they would tell me the name of the message they were referencing so I could listen to it in it's entirety and that got me a major side eye. I treat YT, blogs, etc like I treat the evening news. Everything shown is not the unadulterated truth. I heard something about the jet and car too. From what I understand, ppl have gifted him certain things and he turned them down. This actually offended God (so to speak) b/c he uses ppl to bless us sometimes. God basically told him he wanted him to have the gift. That he was the Giver behind the giver. As for the jet, a regular small town pastor is called on all hours of the day and expected to be present in a number of situations. How can you have a world wide ministry and be placed on stand by at the airport or not have other reliable transportation? Why can Tyler Perry have a jet or a business person but not a spiritual leader? How come foul living athletes and entertainers who are awesome entertainers but dumb as a rock in every other aspect have these things but a pastor should sell, sell, sell? I'll bet if you look at the charitable donations made by many spiritual leaders and then look at the donations by entertainers and those we hold in high esteem, you'd be surprised at the % ratio to income difference. What if God blesses you abundantly? At what point would you refuse to accept anymore? Would you refuse it even if he told you it was not his will?


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Prudent1 said:


> I know this was not directed at me and this question is not directed at you either SumSolso when I say _you_, I don't mean you personally but a general 'you' as all who have contributed to this post. See, this is what I don't understand. If someone posts something on YT as a sermon by whoever but I have in my posession the same message in it's entirety on DVD which is not taken out of context or altered in any way, why is it easier to believe the version shown on YT is accurate? I guess I'm just strange when it comes to stuff like that. I was having this convo IRL when I asked the other person if they would tell me the name of the message they were referencing so I could listen to it in it's entirety and that got me a major side eye. I treat YT, blogs, etc like I treat the evening news. Everything shown is not the unadulterated truth. I heard something about the jet and car too. From what I understand, ppl have gifted him certain things and he turned them down. This actually offended God (so to speak) b/c he uses ppl to bless us sometimes. God basically told him he wanted him to have the gift. That he was the Giver behind the giver. As for the jet, a regular small town pastor is called on all hours of the day and expected to be present in a number of situations. How can you have a world wide ministry and be placed on stand by at the airport or not have other reliable transportation? Why can Tyler Perry have a jet or a business person but not a spiritual leader? How come foul living athletes and entertainers who are awesome entertainers but dumb as a rock in every other aspect have these things but a pastor should sell, sell, sell? I'll bet if you look at the charitable donations made by many spiritual leaders and then look at the donations by entertainers and those we hold in high esteem, you'd be surprised at the % ratio to income difference. What if God blesses you abundantly? At what point would you refuse to accept anymore? Would you refuse it even if he told you it was not his will?


I like your points Prudent.  I agree with you, I  don't think that everyone will be broke either.  Some people in the kingdom will make a lot of money.  I think the more we have, the greater responsibility to give.  "To whomsoever much is given, much will be required."  ETA:  Because as someone mentioned before, the word says the poor will always be with us. I saw one scripture that said, if you have two suits, and someone has none, give him one suit.  I guess that goes with treating people as yourself.  As for the videos, they can be edited and probably are.  I think in that particular video though, Creflo definitely said the man gave an inherited 100X but that is not the case.  He went away sorrowful.


----------



## BostonMaria (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

Lissa0821 I listen to Creflo Dollar's podcast every week.  I travel to Atlanta a few times a year and I would love to attend church service at the dome.

I was brought up to believe that being prosperous was bad and being poor was humble. His podcasts have shown me that being poor does NOT mean I'm humble and going to heaven LOL  Poverty is a curse.  I realized that there are spiritual gifts that God wants me to have, that Jesus died for me so I could have, and I should believe God for it.  Am I praying for a jet and a mansion? No of course not.  Nothing wrong with those things, but its ok to ask my father to bless me so I can be a blessing to others.


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

True, it does make sense they would need jets...otherwise ministry would be extremely difficult.  Unless they were willing to be very inconvenienced to help other people with what they save.  But I think having the jets have to do with the message, you have to look the part you teach or it will be hard for the people to accept the viability of the message.


----------



## Prudent1 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> I like your points Prudent. I agree with you, I don't think that everyone will be broke either. Some people in the kingdom will make a lot of money. I think the more we have, the greater responsibility to give. "To whomsoever much is given, much will be required." I saw one scripture that said, if you have two suits, and someone has none, give him one suit. I guess that goes with treating people as yourself. As for the videos, they can be edited and probably are. I think in that particular video though, Creflo definitely said the man gave an inherited 100X but that is not the case. He went away sorrowful.


sidney,
Oh yeah how could I forget to stress what someone else said up thread. *We are all blessed to be a blessing*-period. That's the main thing and should NOT be forgotten or confused at all! Yes, we will enjoy some things as well but we are not to merely be consumers. God is not pleased with that behavior at all! We will have the poor among us not because God plays fovorites but b/c some ppl do not understand giving is far _more_ important than receiving so they are tight fisted and some poor are poor b/c they make foolish choices with their resources. The problem is not one of limited resources but of flawed humanity. Both of these scenarios are the result of selfishness.


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## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



BostonMaria said:


> @Lissa0821 I listen to Creflo Dollar's podcast every week.  I travel to Atlanta a few times a year and I would love to attend church service at the dome.
> 
> I was brought up to believe that being prosperous was bad and being poor was humble. His podcasts have shown me that being poor does NOT mean I'm humble and going to heaven LOL  Poverty is a curse.  I realized that there are spiritual gifts that God wants me to have, that Jesus died for me so I could have, and I should believe God for it.  Am I praying for a jet and a mansion? No of course not.  Nothing wrong with those things, but its ok to ask my father to bless me so I can be a blessing to others.



Yeah, I don't think we have to be poor, I think what Paul was saying to I Timothy 6 was just to avoid teaching that tells you to use the gospel to become rich.  Ok, i really should be studying...


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## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Prudent1 said:


> @sidney,
> Oh yeah how could I forget to stress what someone else said up thread. *We are all blessed to be a blessing*-period. That's the main thing and should NOT be forgotten or confused at all! Yes, we will enjoy some things as well but we are not to merely be consumers. God is not pleased with that behavior at all! *We will have the poor among us not because God plays fovorites but b/c some ppl do not understand giving is far more important than receiving s*o they are tight fisted and some poor are poor b/c they make foolish choices with their resources. The problem is not one of limited resources but of flawed humanity. Both of these scenarios are the result of selfishness.



Amen!  That's good! God allows some of us to be poor to teach us this important lesson. I love it!


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## Lissa0821 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> Lissa, are there parts of your pastor's teaching that you disagree with based on what has been shared here on from your own studies?  Do you see any inconsistencies?   Not so much the jet but the scriptural things.




I have truly been called to be a part of this ministry, I am aligned with the vision of this ministry and am confident this is where I am suppose to at this point of my walk with God. No,  I do not pick and choose the parts of his teaching that will I will accept or disagree with. Its never really crossed my mind to look for inconsistency at my church or any other ministry service I have attended.  I pretty much have tunnel vision "God help me". 

I usually ask God to speak to me in this service before I enter the building,  that is what I grew up hearing my mother say when I went to church with her.  Most of the time, I usually hear something God ALREADY said to me earlier  during the service, that I may have ignored or not taken seriously.  I pretty much get more confirmation of what God has said to me.


----------



## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Prudent1 said:


> I know this was not directed at me and this question is not directed at you either SumSolso when I say _you_, I don't mean you personally but a general 'you' as all who have contributed to this post. See, this is what I don't understand. If someone posts something on YT as a sermon by whoever but I have in my posession the same message in it's entirety on DVD which is not taken out of context or altered in any way, why is it easier to believe the version shown on YT is accurate? I guess I'm just strange when it comes to stuff like that. I was having this convo IRL when I asked the other person if they would tell me the name of the message they were referencing so I could listen to it in it's entirety and that got me a major side eye. I treat YT, blogs, etc like I treat the evening news. Everything shown is not the unadulterated truth. I heard something about the jet and car too. From what I understand, ppl have gifted him certain things and he turned them down. This actually offended God (so to speak) b/c he uses ppl to bless us sometimes. God basically told him he wanted him to have the gift. That he was the Giver behind the giver. As for the jet, a regular small town pastor is called on all hours of the day and expected to be present in a number of situations. How can you have a world wide ministry and be placed on stand by at the airport or not have other reliable transportation? Why can Tyler Perry have a jet or a business person but not a spiritual leader? How come foul living athletes and entertainers who are awesome entertainers but dumb as a rock in every other aspect have these things but a pastor should sell, sell, sell? I'll bet if you look at the charitable donations made by many spiritual leaders and then look at the donations by entertainers and those we hold in high esteem, you'd be surprised at the % ratio to income difference. What if God blesses you abundantly? At what point would you refuse to accept anymore? Would you refuse it even if he told you it was not his will?



Prudent, I think I am missing a part of your message?  So to some degree the church ministries should look the part?


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## loolalooh (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> SummerSolstice I am still here, Pastor teaches about everything concerns our lives, and I mean everything.  *I think the emphasis of scrutiny that this ministry experiences is his passion for Christians to understand  prosperity is a part of the deal.*  It is more than just escaping hell but there is abundant life to be lived (John 10:10) and enjoyed as God's child.
> 
> There is really no way to build prosperity toward Heaven and not experience every other aspect of prosperity of God here on earth.  The bible teaches to seek first the kingdom of God and these "things" shall be added to you (Matthew 6:25).  It is through your meditation of scriptures, scriptural based prayers, yielding to the leadership of God, your tithes and offerings that a believer can expect to experience prosperity here in this world and in the heaven.  Heck like someone else said, God will bless you in spite of you too. Thank God for that.  *What I have been taught is prosperity is not just for you to take care you and yours but to further the message of God.  *
> 
> ...



Thank you for being so open to share.

This discussion on Prosperity Gospel is interesting.  I've been against it for some time.  However, reading your posts reveals a different, more moderate side to the doctrine.  (I used to attend Joel Osteen's church and did believe his messages were good ones; however, I needed more of the Word, so I moved to another church.  It was after leaving his church and seeing him and others in interviews, that I started questioning Prosperity Gospel.)

I need to go back through this thread and read all the related prosperity posts, and then let them marinate.


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## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> I have truly been called to be a part of this ministry, I am aligned with the vision of this ministry and am confident this is where I am suppose to at this point of my walk with God. No,  I do not pick and choose the parts of his teaching that will I will accept or disagree with. Its never really crossed my mind to look for inconsistency at my church or any other ministry service I have attended.  I pretty much have tunnel vision "God help me".
> 
> I usually ask God to speak to me in this service before I enter the building,  that is what I grew up hearing my mother say when I went to church with her.  Most of the time, I usually hear something God ALREADY said to me earlier  during the service, that I may have ignored or not taken seriously.  I pretty much get more confirmation of what God has said to me.



Still thinking about this thread.  Lissa, I'm interested in knowing why you don't double check the teaching with the word.  Do you think this undermines leadership? Or do you feel that God filters everything for you? ...I'm guessing that's what you meant by tunnel vision. Just wondering what you have been taught on this issue.


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## Lissa0821 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> Still thinking about this thread.  Lissa, I'm interested in knowing why you don't double check the teaching with the word.  Do you think this undermines leadership? Or do you feel that God filters everything for you? ...I'm guessing that's what you meant by tunnel vision. Just wondering what you have been taught on this issue.



I believe that I have shared what I have been taught at my church and I am good with it.  I have experienced the fruit in my life and in my family life,  thank God for leading me to this ministry.  My walk with God and confidence in prosperity does not start and end with what my Pastor says.  I attend service once maybe twice a week but that is not enough to get a personal revelation for God on any topic.  I read and study the bible for myself, which my Pastor encourages.  In just about every service he will say read and study the bible for yourself, don't just take my word for it (this is said verbatim).  

Pastors are accountable for sharing what God has given Him for His people during each service but it responsibilty  of the congregation to get in the Bible for themselves.  

This is really a personal relationship with God for me, being under the leadership of my Pastor is just a part of this relationship. The Holy Spirit is my teacher, He is the one that reveals the scriptures to me and there are times He will speak through my Pastor.   I just don't feel the need to search for scriptures to find ones that are contradict what was preached, that seems so counterproductive and a complete waste of time.  There is so much evidence in the bible that God is delights in the prosperity of the believer.   I am convinced.......


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## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> You don't know about Leadria?  You're missing out.  Awesome testimony.  She is a preacher's kid, divorced, single mother who lost her house right before she came on Sunday's Best.  She won, her testimony is "I may have lost my house, but God has a mansion for me."  She really loves the Lord..and she can SAAANG!  Here's her slaying them right now...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztOUSP8YJ90
> 
> ...





Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> LeAndria Johnson was the winner of that sham of a show called Sunday's Best...she can really sing, I pray that she stays grounded...



Thanks sidney and Iwanthealthyhair67 ...

I never watched the show, 'Sunday's Best'....   

Ummmmmm, 

Pausing....  before I say why...


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## SummerSolstice (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> I have truly been called to be a part of this ministry, I am aligned with the vision of this ministry and am confident this is where I am suppose to at this point of my walk with God. No,  I do not pick and choose the parts of his teaching that will I will accept or disagree with.* Its never really crossed my mind to look for inconsistency at my church or any other ministry service I have attended.  I pretty much have tunnel vision "God help me". *
> 
> I usually ask God to speak to me in this service before I enter the building,  that is what I grew up hearing my mother say when I went to church with her.  Most of the time, I usually hear something God ALREADY said to me earlier  during the service, that I may have ignored or not taken seriously.  I pretty much get more confirmation of what God has said to me.


 
Iron sharpens iron my sis


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## Laela (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Bless Creflo's heart.... I do see where he makes this error in this vid. I don't see it as intentional because if you read the entire chapter ..the hundredfold reference is there. I think members of his congregation would've caught that, just like you caught your pastor's error. Would you say your pastor was willfully trying to deceive you?
This is really good discussion and only supports further that we must study the Word of God for ourselves as to detect error when we see and hear it, no matter who speaks it. I seriously doubt Dollar is one of those ministers out to sham people out of their money but has a heart to serve God. 
Jesus IS the Gospel...to have Him at the center of our lives is to live a prosperous life, in all areas. Some preachers like him are more bold to speak on tithing and the financial areas. 



sidney said:


> I am posting one of these videos, just because I want to people to be "open" to the fact that this twisting does occur, and how subtly its done. I do not make a habit of watching these videos either, some of them are ridiculous and it is not my hope that we post them here. But I do ask the favor of everyone just looking at this one video.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRiC__Qttw


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## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> Bless Creflo's heart.... I do see where he makes this error in this vid. I don't see it as intentional because if you read the entire chapter ..the hundredfold reference is there. I think members of his congregation would've caught that, just like you caught your pastor's error. Would you say your pastor was willfully trying to deceive you?
> This is really good discussion and only supports further that we must study the Word of God for ourselves as to detect error when we see and hear it, no matter who speaks it. I seriously doubt Dollar is one of those ministers out to sham people out of their money but has a heart to serve God.
> Jesus IS the Gospel...to have Him at the center of our lives is to live a prosperous life, in all areas. Some preachers like him are more bold to speak on tithing and the financial areas.



He was 'nervous' and felt put on the spot.   

I thought it was so rude for that other reporter (the guy) to pick up that Big Gulp Paper Cup (64 oz) and take a sip of soda...  

That was soooo rude and so ghetto... I'm just saying.   There are some things that are just wrong, and that was one of them.    I mean, the man may as well have said, he wasn't taking the interview with Creflo seriously.  

To be honest, neither was the female reporter, because she was not speaking as one who KNOWS and reads the Bible, she was puppeting what she rehearsed what someone else told her to say.     

Creflo knew better than to be on tv in the first place.   It's a lions den for preachers... teeth and claws from saber tooth lions and tigers ready to scratch the life out of anyone who preaches about Jesus...


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## aribell (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

I most definitely believe that God blesses materially.  I have experienced His faithfulness in that respect too much and too often to say otherwise.  But when you look at Scripture, the people God blessed the most in that regard didn't ask for it.  Solomon's riches are often mentioned, but how often is it noted that when God asked Solomon what he wanted, Solomon _didn't_ ask for wealth and that's what impressed God--the fact that Solomon cared more about being a good king than his own personal interests. that God blessed him materially.  



			
				I Kings 3 said:
			
		

> 5 eAt Gibeon fthe Lord appeared to Solomon gin a dream by night, and God said, “Ask what I shall give you.” 6 And Solomon said...9 Give your servant therefore an understanding mind to govern your people, that I may qdiscern between good and evil, for who is able to govern this your great people?”
> 10 It pleased the Lord that Solomon had asked this. 11 And God said to him, *“Because you have asked this, and have not asked for yourself long life or riches or the life of your enemies, but have asked for yourself understanding to discern what is right, 12 behold, I now do according to your word.* Behold, I give you a wise and discerning mind, so that none like you has been before you and none like you shall arise after you. 13 *I give you also what you have not asked, both riches and honor, so that no other king shall compare with you, all your days. *14 And if you will walk in my ways, keeping my statutes and my commandments, vas your father David walked, then wI will lengthen your days.”



The heart that pleases God is not the heart that seeks to be rich.  The whole earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, so to make someone wealthy is nothing for Him.  But I think that Scripture continually repeats the principle shown in God's exchange with Solomon that God's material blessings follow righteousness and faithfulness--they don't come because we are seeking them.  I know that it's not a black and white thing--but I think at the end of the day, if we focus 100% on faithfulness to Him, whatever blessing He has for us materially will follow.  

Also, I think that we have to be careful about focusing on any particular "blessing."  With prosperity preachers, how many has it led to do some unscrupulous things in order to get offerings out of people?  I was in a service where an itinerant "prophet" (I mean no disrespect, but I am just not convinced of his authenticity) started off with the "God told me there's someone who will give $1000 and get their breakthrough; then it was "there are 13 people who have $100" to give, then it was that there are X many people who will give $50 to receive their blessing..." And then afterward it was, "Everybody line up.  If you have a $20 bill in your pocket, just come and get your breakthrough."  And the whole church lined up.  Now, I'm not against a laborer receiving his wages, but the whole thing was just off, and I figured that if he did that at every service at every church he visited, he had to be really racking up the money.  And you know what?  The people lined up not because they loved God and wanted to serve Him, but because they were promised that if they gave X, they would get Y.  It's not wrong to know that you will receive a reward and to even work for it.  But you have to ask what spirit is being sown into people when they are lining up like that.  Is it about obedience to God or covetousness?

At another church I visited, I had perceived a strong anointing in the pastor’s teachings on the internet, but when I wanted to visit in person, something in my intuition said the church was off.  When I went there, they were in line with the word of faith message and I saw the oddest thing; they had a bible study that you had to pay for.  It wasn’t just paying for the study materials, it was like hundreds of dollars per person, to be paid multiple times in order to participate in this study.   I have never seen such and couldn’t figure what could justify that amount being paid in order to simply participate in a bible study.  But you know, that pastor ended up giving me a word that was true and very encouraging.  

So, I’m not saying that because a church is off in one respect that everything else was completely wrong.   But a lot of times, little things turn into big things if the thing goes unchecked.  And besides that, it's the wrong things you have to worry about--not the right ones.  So a preacher might tell me 5 good and right things, but serious error in the 6th could be the thing that ultimately messes up my spiritual life.


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## sidney (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Omg, I just ran into a young janitor (african american) and he was walking down the lobby jamming to hip hop.  So I let him listen lecrae on my headphones..y'all he was so hype lol.  He's going to buy the album tomorrow.


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## Shimmie (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Lissa0821....

Hey Lissa... 

Just wanna say that if I know nothing else about you, you are truly your 'own' woman.  And a woman who truly loves Jesus...  

Nothing about you is materialistic.   I just want to keep you aware of this.   

Whatever I say about the mega ministries, has absolutely no bearing in what I see in you.   Your prayers, your heart, your love for God, your heart to obedience is much to admire and respect. 

God has you where you are for a reason and a season.   I'm just happy to know you.   

Love and blessings to you...


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

---------------------


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## aribell (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

^^^I'd say the Word of God is the Word of God, spoken, written, revealed in the Spirit.  If someone doesn't have it written, but it is revealed to their spirit, then that revelation will be according to what has already been written.  However we hear God's Word, it is the same.

If someone comes preaching a revelation not according to what has already been written, then it isn't the Word.  And if someone interprets what is written contrary to the Spirit of the Word, then it isn't the Word.  And if someone knows the letter of the Word, but not the Spirit of the Word and its power, then the Word remains true.  "Let God be true and every man a liar."


----------



## Laela (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Shimmie... I saw that... LOL... that's Don Lemon and he's a gay anchor, whom I suspect doesn't like Dollar much, because Dollar is very vocal against the gay lifestyle...he probably was just as nervous..slurrping on the drink like that. Unprofessional...

Sigh... we're Truthseekers and even in situations like this we should expect the truth. RINGO TV is known for "exposing" Creflo by slicing and creatively editing portions of his sermons with dramatic pauses and that infamous WHAT?!  We can't read God's Word and fall for this type of twisting what people say either. That's not exposure...that's witchcraft.




Shimmie said:


> He was 'nervous' and felt put on the spot.
> 
> I thought it was so rude for that other reporter (the guy) to pick up that Big Gulp Paper Cup (64 oz) and take a sip of soda...
> 
> ...


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



nicola.kirwan said:


> ^^^I'd say the Word of God is the Word of God, spoken, written, revealed in the Spirit. If someone doesn't have it written, but it is revealed to their spirit, then that revelation will be according to what has already been written. However we hear God's Word, it is the same.
> 
> If someone comes preaching a revelation not according to what has already been written, then it isn't the Word. And if someone interprets what is written contrary to the Spirit of the Word, then it isn't the Word. And if someone knows the letter of the Word, but not the Spirit of the Word and its power, then the Word remains true. "Let God be true and every man a liar."


 

Agree with this...The Word and Spirit are always in perfect agreement. 

John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John15:26
“When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.


----------



## sidney (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



nicola.kirwan said:


> I most definitely believe that God blesses materially.  I have experienced His faithfulness in that respect too much and too often to say otherwise.  But when you look at Scripture, the people God blessed the most in that regard didn't ask for it.  Solomon's riches are often mentioned, but how often is it noted that when God asked Solomon what he wanted, Solomon _didn't_ ask for wealth and that's what impressed God--the fact that Solomon cared more about being a good king than his own personal interests. that God blessed him materially.
> 
> The heart that pleases God is not the heart that seeks to be rich.  The whole earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, so to make someone wealthy is nothing for Him.  But I think that Scripture continually repeats the principle shown in God's exchange with Solomon that God's material blessings follow righteousness and faithfulness--they don't come because we are seeking them.  I know that it's not a black and white thing--but I think at the end of the day, if we focus 100% on faithfulness to Him, whatever blessing He has for us materially will follow.
> 
> ...



I agree with your post wholeheartedly.


----------



## Laela (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

I enjoy LeCrae... his Haiti song, _Far Away_, is so powerful!




sidney said:


> Omg, I just ran into a young janitor (african american) and he was walking down the lobby jamming to hip hop. So I let him listen lecrae on my headphones..y'all he was so hype lol. He's going to buy the album tomorrow.


----------



## sidney (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> Bless Creflo's heart.... I do see where he makes this error in this vid. I don't see it as intentional because if you read the entire chapter ..the hundredfold reference is there. I think members of his congregation would've caught that, just like you caught your pastor's error. Would you say your pastor was willfully trying to deceive you?
> This is really good discussion and only supports further that we must study the Word of God for ourselves as to detect error when we see and hear it, no matter who speaks it. I seriously doubt Dollar is one of those ministers out to sham people out of their money but has a heart to serve God.
> Jesus IS the Gospel...to have Him at the center of our lives is to live a prosperous life, in all areas. Some preachers like him are more bold to speak on tithing and the financial areas.



Thanks Laela.  Unfortunately, I have heard similar messages like these from Pastor Dollar.  Don't get me wrong, there is some good teaching mixed in with the prosperity stuff.  I also don't think that people always intentionally try to sham folks...I am willing to bet that he fully believes what he is teaching.   But that does not make it less wrong and the consequences less dire.   I Timothy 6 makes it clear, the gospel is not to be used for financial gain.  These things naturally follow obedience and God's grace as we walk in his will.


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## sidney (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> I enjoy LeCrae... his Haiti song, _Far Away_, is so powerful!



Thanks, I'm listening now *jamming*....WOW!  I like this!


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## sidney (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> Shimmie... I saw that... LOL... that's Don Lemon and he's a gay anchor, whom I suspect doesn't like Dollar much, because Dollar is very vocal against the gay lifestyle...he probably was just as nervous..slurrping on the drink like that. Unprofessional...
> 
> Sigh... we're Truthseekers and even in situations like this we should expect the truth. RINGO TV is known for "exposing" Creflo by slicing and creatively editing portions of his sermons with dramatic pauses and that infamous WHAT?!  We can't read God's Word and fall for this type of twisting what people say either. That's not exposure...that's witchcraft.



That WHAT?! is too much.  I don't doubt that he chops and edits to force his points.   I'm open to listening to the opinions here about this...but I just can't get around some scriptures...like building your treasures in heaven.  God will take care of our treasures on earth.


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## Laela (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

That's an interesting comment....

The Word of God is a witness to Himself. Let every man be a liar... God's Word is Truth. So you're saying if you're firmly rooted and grounded in the Word, someone's teachings could cause you to "mess up" spiritually?  How?
In a case like this, it seems more like depending on the Word, according to Preacher X, and not the Word, according to God. 


Hebrews 13:10
_Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein._



nicola.kirwan said:


> So, I’m not saying that because a church is off in one respect that everything else was completely wrong. But a lot of times, little things turn into big things if the thing goes unchecked. And besides that, it's the wrong things you have to worry about--not the right ones. So a preacher might tell me 5 good and right things, *but serious error in the 6th could be the thing that ultimately messes up my spiritual* life.


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## aribell (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> That's an interesting comment....
> 
> The Word of God is a witness to Himself. Let every man be a liar... God's Word is Truth. So you're saying if you're firmly rooted and grounded in the Word, someone's teachings could cause you to "mess up" spiritually?  How?
> In a case like this, it seems more like depending on the Word, according to Preacher X, and not the Word, according to God.
> ...



If I _embrace_ error, it will mess me up spiritually.  If I sow error into my spirit, then I'll reap spiritual damage.  I can start off strong and then get shaky, and then fall.  I don't think that any of us has our spiritual lives "on lock" such that we don't have to avoid error.  

(eta: isn't that what the above verse is warning against?)


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

...K, guess no one wants to answer my questions directly.

I'll go to another Christian Forum that I go to and ask there.  

Thanks!


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## sidney (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Nice & Wavy said:


> ...K, guess no one wants to answer my questions directly.
> 
> I'll go to another Christian Forum that I go to and ask there.
> 
> Thanks!





Nice & Wavy said:


> Let me ask a few questions...just  curious.
> 
> What happens to the members of the Body of Christ who don't have a  bible...they want one, but are not allowed to have one?  Because they  are not able to read a bible, do you believe that they are not apart of  the Body of Christ?  *Of course they are.*
> 
> ...


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## Laela (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Therein lies the accountability .. yours, not the teacher's.



nicola.kirwan said:


> *If I embrace error, it will mess me up spiritually.* If I sow error into my spirit, then I'll reap spiritual damage. I can start off strong and then get shaky, and then fall. I don't think that any of us has our spiritual lives "on lock" such that we don't have to avoid error. (eta: isn't that what the above verse is warning against?)


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## Laela (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

I need to pray first to answer yours....  Marking my spot. It's been a long night, but those are great questions!







Nice & Wavy said:


> ...K, guess no one wants to answer my questions directly.
> 
> I'll go to another Christian Forum that I go to and ask there.
> 
> Thanks!


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## aribell (Feb 23, 2012)

Laela said:


> Therein lies the accountability .. yours, not the teacher's.



A teacher is also accountable for teaching error...they will be judge more harshly because of their position.

I honestly have not been able to follow the implications in the last few posts (not just your's Laela) because the principle that you do not follow a teacher who preaches error seems so clear to me and something that we are constantly instructed about that I don't see an issue.


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## sidney (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> That's an interesting comment....
> 
> The Word of God is a witness to Himself. Let every man be a liar... God's Word is Truth. So you're saying if you're firmly rooted and grounded in the Word, someone's teachings could cause you to "mess up" spiritually?  How?
> In a case like this, it seems more like depending on the Word, according to Preacher X, and not the Word, according to God.
> ...



Can I answer this one.  It's mainly the Ephesians 4:14 scripture that gets me.  When we are infants in his word we are carried to and fro with every doctrine.  I know I did this.  I think the danger is when individuals are starting out and they don't know the word for themselves, and they trust someone to teach it to them...and in up down a dark winding path.  And that's where the pastor's accountability comes in...as in Ezekiel 34.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



sidney said:


> Nice & Wavy said:
> 
> 
> > Let me ask a few questions...just  curious.
> ...


----------



## sidney (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

Good thread ladies, and good night!  God bless all of you!


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## aribell (Feb 23, 2012)

sidney said:


> Can I answer this one.  It's mainly the Ephesians 4:14 scripture that gets me.  When we are infants in his word we are carried to and fro with every doctrine.  I know I did this.  I think the danger is when individuals are starting out and they don't know the word for themselves, and they trust someone to teach it to them...and in up down a dark winding path.  And that's where the pastor's accountability comes in...as in Ezekiel 34.



Is it just infancy though?  I don't think there is any spiritual age where error is something to be tolerated.  I believe in the saying that you "chew the fish and spit out the bones."  However, I think a distinction has to be made between those who preach something and might be wrong on one or two points, and those who are continuously, willfully preaching something false.  Everyone might need correction sometime, but even if I know the word backwards and forwards and upside down, why would I sit under a minister who has set his heart to preach contrary to the word?  Even if I can take some positive things from what is being said, just the fact that he (or she) will not be corrected on a certain point is enough to show that they are not trustworthy. And if I am OK with a pastor that will not fully submit to what I know to be God's word, then what does that say about me?  At a certain point, it's not even about maturity, but obedience.


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## sidney (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Nice & Wavy said:


> sidney said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you sidney, for respectfully answering my questions within my post.  I appreciate your words and your sincere heart in answering them.
> ...


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## loolalooh (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Nice & Wavy said:


> ...K, guess no one wants to answer my questions directly.
> 
> I'll go to another Christian Forum that I go to and ask there.
> 
> Thanks!



I wanted to answer, but wanted to marinate on it.  Sorry.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> I need to pray first to answer yours....  Marking my spot. It's been a long night, but those are great questions!


Thank you, Laela.  I needed them for something that I've been working on, so it's pretty important.  I did ask another Christian forum that I am on and they were really great with the answers.  I was hoping for more responses here, but I digress.

Thanks again, sis!

Love you!


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



loolalooh said:


> I wanted to answer, but wanted to marinate on it.


Thank you, sis...but, I needed the answers at that time, as I was working on something that was important.  You can still answer them if you like, that would bless me still as I would still like to hear what is on your heart.

Love you, sis!


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## loolalooh (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

These were some tough but good questions.  



Nice & Wavy said:


> Let me ask a few questions...just  curious.
> 
> What happens to the members of the Body of Christ who don't have a  bible...they want one, but are not allowed to have one?  Because they  are not able to read a bible, do you believe that they are not apart of  the Body of Christ?



They are still a part of the Body of Christ.  It is not the act of reading a bible that retains our place in the Body.  It is our sanctification, and that comes through the work of the Holy Spirit within us.  



Nice & Wavy said:


> If they don't have scripture to back up what their pastor is sharing or  to make sure that what he is saying is the truth, do you believe that  the Holy Spirit won't reveal to them the spirit of truth and the spirit  of error because of it?  Do you think that if they aren't studying (because they don't have a  bible) to show themselves approved unto God, that they will not be able  to rightly divide the word of truth?



The Holy Spirit will reveal to them the spirit of truth and the spirit of error by way of 1) seeking wisdom 2) from God 3) in faith.  (All three are crucial.)

*James 1:5-8*
_5 *If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God*, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 *But let him ask in faith, with no doubting*, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways._




Nice & Wavy said:


> Do you believe that because you read your bible daily, and can quote  scripture, that you are better equipped than those who can't read their  bible, or are not allowed to have a bible?



According to Ephesians 6, the Word is our only weapon of offense.  Together with the other five pieces of armor, those who have absorbed or have access to the Word are better equipped than those who have not.  The Word can come through the Bible or a divine revelation from God.  (However, *someone who has the Word but is lacking* in one or more of the other pieces in not necessarily better equipped than someone without the Word.  See the following answers.) 

*Ephesians 6*
_17 And take the helmet of salvation, and *the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God*;_



Nice & Wavy said:


> How is it that these same members of the Body of Christ, can operate  under the power of the Holy Spirit, and people are healed, delivered and  set free, if they don't have their bibles to read, to know what they  are suppose to do as believers?



They may have all the other pieces of their armor - *truth, righteousness, peace that comes from the Good News, faith, and salvation.*  Additionally,  God may choose to reveal the Word to them via means other than the Bible.



Nice & Wavy said:


> How is it that there are members of the  Body of Christ who do read their bibles, yet are not operating fully  under the power of the Holy Spirit?  What is the difference between the  two?  Why?



These members may be reading but not *absorbing* the Word.  Additionally, the Word is our offensive weapon, but we also need the five pieces of defense.  These members may be missing one or more of their defensive pieces - for example, *faith.*  How many of us have Scriptures quoted, yet waver in faith when the enemy attacks hard?


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## ItsMeFre (Feb 23, 2012)

Lissa0821 said:
			
		

> I am a BOLD, PROUD member of World Changers Church International, where Creflo Dollar is the pastor.  I have been there for the past 16 years and have no intention to leave anytime soon.  When I see post like these it grieves me, not just because it is my Pastor that is being slander. But it is yet another tool of the enemy to create division. It also shows a lack of sensitivity as I would like to believe most people who are members of their local church, think highly of their pastors, are they just as willing to post the negative things that are said about thier own pastor.  Probably not, but trust and believe something negative is said about every pastor that preaches or teaches the gospel, if there are 5 member or  50 thousand members and whether it is valid complaint or not.
> 
> Granted, I will be the first to say, Pastor Dollar teaching style is not for everyone, that is a given but it is for those God has called to be apart of this GREAT, AWESOME, and ANOINTED ministry. (Can you tell I LOVE this ministry).  According to Ephesians 4:11, God gave us apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers for the edifying and perfecting of the body of Christ. Even God knew people receive His Word through different gifting he placed in the body of Christ.
> 
> ...



I co sign ....


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## aribell (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Here is something that I was reading from A.W. Tozer.  I thought it was most interesting because he speaks of "itching ears" with respect to genuine Christians.  I think that "itching ears" come into play whenever we seek out teachers based on what we like rather than simply on whether the teaching lines up with the Word.  A lot of times believers simply don't know better, but other times believers stick with teachers because those teachers say what they like to hear in the way they like to hear it.



> Itching Ears
> By A.W. Tozer
> 
> 
> ...


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## LucieLoo12 (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

_In the bible there are many cases in which someone started out grounded in the word of God but then began to error in truth. Thats why the bible says those that endure to the end shall be saved. This is an enduring thing. It doesnt matter how one started out but its about how one finishes. The bible even speaks about how they wrestle with the scriptures to their own destruction._



Laela said:


> That's an interesting comment....
> 
> The Word of God is a witness to Himself. Let every man be a liar... God's Word is Truth. So you're saying if you're firmly rooted and grounded in the Word, someone's teachings could cause you to "mess up" spiritually? How?
> In a case like this, it seems more like depending on the Word, according to Preacher X, and not the Word, according to God.
> ...


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Lawd, Lawd, Lawd...

That article was right on the head. Alot of people don't want the true and living God that requires holiness and pureness of heart. They want the god that will let them do whatever they want, feel what they want, say what they want, and still be called "saved". They want that pastor thats gone say"Aw, you and Bobby been together for 6 yrs, God know yall gone get married, its ok to live with Bobby until yall finish school, then yall gone get married. God know yall heart". They want the pastor to cater to their feelings and desires and if the pastor dont he is "judgemental" and has no love.

People say "How could they kill Jesus? He was the savior of the world"? But I promise you if Jesus was walking around today, people would hate him still.

Alot of people dont want God , they want to do what they want and still go to heaven. All I got to do is say "God forgive me" I can still curse, fight, fornicate, drink, lie, cheat etc and still be called "Christian". So they run to the preachers that will agree with them.




nicola.kirwan said:


> Here is something that I was reading from A.W. Tozer. I thought it was most interesting because he speaks of "itching ears" with respect to genuine Christians. I think that "itching ears" come into play whenever we seek out teachers based on what we like rather than simply on whether the teaching lines up with the Word. A lot of times believers simply don't know better, but other times believers stick with teachers because those teachers say what they like to hear in the way they like to hear it.


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## loolalooh (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> That's an interesting comment....
> 
> The Word of God is a witness to Himself. Let every man be a liar... God's Word is Truth. *So you're saying if you're firmly rooted and grounded in the Word, someone's teachings could cause you to "mess up" spiritually?  How?*
> In a case like this, it seems more like depending on the Word, according to Preacher X, and not the Word, according to God.
> ...



I have to agree with Laela here, especially the bolded.



nicola.kirwan said:


> A teacher is also accountable for teaching error...they will be judge more harshly because of their position.
> 
> I honestly have not been able to follow the implications in the last few posts (not just your's Laela) because the principle that you do not follow a teacher who preaches error seems so clear to me and something that we are constantly instructed about that I don't see an issue.



Yes, a teacher will be held accountable, but the listener has accountability too.  We are taught to rely on the Word of God and not the word of man.  I don't think Laela is advocating that we follow pastors who err but was making the point that even sincere pastors may err unintentionally, and if we are grounded in the Word, we will be able to catch it.




Alicialynn86 said:


> _*In the bible there are many cases in which someone started out grounded in the word of God but then began to error in truth.* Thats why the bible says those that endure to the end shall be saved. This is an enduring thing. It doesnt matter how one started out but its about how one finishes. The bible even speaks about how they wrestle with the scriptures to their own destruction._



Yes, but did they err in truth on their own accord or because they relied on someone's teachings?  Can you give an example of the latter from the Bible?  I am not familiar with all the stories.  

I see the former happen today, though.  In the "Christian Thoughts" thread, we touched upon a gospel singer/preacher who was grounded in the Word of God but began to err in truth.  It was on his own accord, though.  Because his trials were too great, he came to twist the Word to accommodate his sin.


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## Sharpened (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> @SummerSolstice I am still here, Pastor teaches about everything concerns our lives, and I mean everything.  I think the emphasis of scrutiny that this ministry experiences is his passion for Christians to understand  prosperity is a part of the deal.  It is more than just escaping hell but there is abundant life to be lived (John 10:10) and enjoyed as God's child.



In the context of John 10:10, the abundance has nothing to do with material things, but with increasing our connection to the Father and experiencing His power and joy in our spirits. The thief mentioned is a false teacher who lives off the people under His care (or influence through books, radio, and other forms of media).



> There is really no way to build prosperity toward Heaven and not experience every other aspect of prosperity of God here on earth.



Prosperity in what, exactly? We are also commanded to deny self, take up our cross daily and follow Him. The more we do this under the Holy Spirit’s guidance, the less of this worldly prosperity we will want. We will crave more of Him, feel His joy and pain, receive our instructions directly from Him, desire His will over our wants etc. 



> The bible teaches to seek first the kingdom of God and these "things" shall be added to you (Matthew 6:25).


The actual passage is located in Matthew 6:33 and Luke 12:31, but they mean the same thing as the one below:



> Matthew 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?”



Jesus plainly stated that He wanted His disciples to understand that their basic needs will be taken care of. He demonstrated this when He sent them out without provisions (Matthew 10:5-14, Mark 6:7-13, Luke 9:1-6, Luke 10:1-11) and once, upon returning, asked if they lacked of anything (Luke 22:35). No where does it say we are promised beyond that in the natural, only the spiritual.



> It is through your meditation of scriptures, scriptural based prayers, yielding to the leadership of God, your tithes and offerings that a believer can expect to experience prosperity here in this world and in the heaven.


Not through our own efforts or what man says we should do, but through yielding to His will by the Holy Spirit do we grow to maturity and spread His seed (the Evangel, His Words of life-everlasting). Whatever the Holy Spirit has led me to do, I do. What about the people who cannot read? What about the ones who have a limited vocabulary? What about the ones who work just to eat? What about the people He has called to live solely on what little He provides as they do His will?



> Heck like someone else said, God will bless you in spite of you too. Thank God for that.  What I have been taught is prosperity is not just for you to take care you and yours but to further the message of God.


Yes, it is true that whatever we receive from Him is for the building of His Temple (His people), but it goes beyond the physical. We are also here to be refined and the best way is through suffering (enduring) for His sake (Matthew 5:11-12, Mark 10:29-31, Acts 5:41, Acts 9:16, Acts 14:22, Philippians 1:29-30, 1 Peter 5:9, 1 Peter 2:21). We must thank and praise Him for the good and bad that releases our attachment to this life (Job 1:21, Matthew 10:39, Matthew 16:25, Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24, Luke 17:33, John 12:25, Ephesians 5:20, 1 Thessalonians 5:18) and towards what He has for us in the next. This is when the Lord does His best work, in our weakness, so He gets the glory.



> Now about the Leer Jet and Rolls Royce, at the time of that interview which took place in 2009, I just smiled because a few details were left out.  Yes, the ministry did give Pastor a Rolls Royce as a Pastor appreciation gift.  I had only been at the ministry for a few months at this time in 1996.  The concept to give him the Rolls Royce I believe came from him sharing a teaching about Mark 11:22, which talked about saying with your mouth and believing in your heart.  From what I was told, he was sharing how he was putting this scripture into practice in his own life in believing for a Rolls Royce. I think that is something he saw as too big to have unless God did it for him.





> *Mark 11:22-24* And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.


Jesus was teaching about the fruits of the Spirit, not the material. A mountain (or hill) symbolized a kingdom or ruling entity. By destroying the fig tree (Mark11:21), He was reminding them that unfruitful works (faith) will be destroyed. The main idea was how the Lord operates through His chosen vessels, through their faith His will be done through them. The Lord inspired many to seek His Son for truth and healing for the purposes of re-enforcing this lesson.



> What is also not shared, the number of testimonies of people who experience some sort of financial increase as what they believe was a direct result of sowing into this gift at the time, from obtaining new cars, new jobs, mortgages paid off and the list goes on.


There are pagans who can claim the same thing (Matthew 5:45b). So what? Yah has blessed Israel’s enemies in order to get His will done as well. What about the testimony of the world losing its grip on our souls, or the increase of the Holy Spirit’s presence, or His word coming alive within, or the results of placing ourselves continuously on His altar, or what words the Holy Spirit put into our mouths to tell someone, or words and prophecies the Lord asked us to share etc. etc. etc. It is not because of what we give but our obedience and His delight in releasing the bonds of man we place on ourselves.



> It was also not shared that there wasn't another corporate Pastor appreciation gift given to Pastor for over 10 years nor that fact there were times Pastor refused to receive a salary.


Neither Jesus nor His disciples were well-off or lived a lavish lifestyle; they would not have stood out by the world’s standard. We are called to be different (holy) from the world, not a Christian imitation of it. This is why He came in a lowly form and station, to let His Father’s work shine and win people to the Evangel.



> Now there will always be poor amongst us, Christian or not.  Philippians 4:19 And my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.  That is God's final word, it is not altered based on what a Pastor chooses to drive or live.


All we need is more than the material, for that can vanish in an instant. It is not about finding nobility in poverty or seeing financial increase while living in a country that is geared for it. It is all about becoming like Christ, reflecting His light, and obedience to His Guide. The poor also means the ones starving spiritually, the ones we are supposed to be feeding His Unleavened Bread. From what I see, that amount has grown exponentially. 

Sorry, but from what you posted, it sounds like your pastor has become your idol, your only link to Jesus’ instruction. If you cannot find error in the man’s teachings, it is because you care not to find it. There will always be errors, for only Jesus was perfect enough to be error-free. The comments Dollar made to those seeking refuge from Eddie Long’s corruption was a big one.

We are not supposed to be sitting up under someone for decades or the rest of our lives still being fed like babies! A pastor is supposed to guard the babies from false beliefs and unfruitful practices towards Christ, the Word in flesh, the bread of life, as sheepherders did for their flocks. When we are mature in Christ, we are released to spread His seed through evangelizing and teaching; the entire NT teaches and encourages this. The assembly of believers is for corporate worship (service) to the Lord, not to tell us what to think or do. Jesus took 3.5 years to teach His disciples; why can we not do this today?


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



loolalooh said:


> Yes, but did they err in truth on their own accord or because they relied on someone's teachings? Can you give an example of the latter from the Bible? I am not familiar with all the stories.
> 
> I see the former happen today, though. In the "Christian Thoughts" thread, we touched upon a gospel singer/preacher who was grounded in the Word of God but began to err in truth. It was on his own accord, though. Because his trials were too great, he came to twist the Word to accommodate his sin.


 

What I am saying is that dont feel that because someone is "grounded" in the word that they are infalliable. Of course alot of people twist the word to fit themselves or their desires. I agree we do error on our own accord.
But it dont matter how grounded we are we still need to watch or be careful


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

who does that on national tv anyway...on another note he just came out of the closet recently ...



Shimmie said:


> He was 'nervous' and felt put on the spot.
> 
> I thought it was so rude for that other reporter (the guy) to pick up that Big Gulp Paper Cup (64 oz) and take a sip of soda...
> 
> ...


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Nice & Wavy said:


> ---------------------





Nice & Wavy said:


> ...K, guess no one wants to answer my questions directly.
> 
> I'll go to another Christian Forum that I go to and ask there.
> 
> Thanks!



Sis... I missed  your post.   I closed out of the forum earlier last night; I was tired and sleepy.  I didn't see your post.   I have to read the responses to 'catch up'... 

:hug:


----------



## Lissa0821 (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

@Sharpened.... I am not going to quote your post because you said a mouthful, just like I had the privilege to do in my previous posts about this subject.  You are entitled to have your opinion about what I have stated and come to the conclusion you have reached based on what I have shared. 

My stance will not changed at all, I am submitted to my Pastor leadership and it works for me.  What I shared does not come from a place of Pastor said that makes it truth end of the story.  What I speak and share on this board and in my personal life comes from Revelation knowledge about God and His word.  This ministry has been instrumental in showing what God has said in the bible.  But I had to go home and put God to the test through the scriptures in own my life, during all my past, present and future trails.  

God has shown him worthy to be trusted in my life. I know, that I know he is my Jehova Jireh, my Jehova Rapha, My El Shaddi, My Elohim and the list goes on.  He has healed my body, cancelled thousands of dollars of debt, given me favor, used me to minister to others, used me lead others to Christ and again the list goes on. This is a revelation in my spirit, my mind, my soul and body.  This is real to me. God has proven His love to me time and time again.  

I have seen the Hand of God for myself and yes, my Pastor had a part in that through a sermon he has preached but God will always get the Glory.  That is good enough for me........


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> who does that on national tv anyway...on another note he just came out of the closet recently ...



Iwanthealthyhair67  and Laela...

Was Don Lemon the reporter on CNN for Whitney's Homegoing Service?   

I still haven't watched the entire service.   

Why is this Don Lemon man gay?   Black people have enough issues as it is, why add this to it... ?   

Note:  For anyone just reading and wondering, 'did she seriously say that?' ..  I'm serious.


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## LucieLoo12 (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

..............





Shimmie said:


> @Iwanthealthyhair67 and @Laela...
> 
> 
> Was Don Lemon the reporter on CNN for Whitney's Homegoing Service?
> ...


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Alicialynn86 said:


> ..............



Alicialynn86 ...

Alicia, am I lying?   Being Black and gay is not a healthy combination for our race.  The 'enemy' has enough weapons against 'us' as it is.   How can a Black person have Victory in their lives being gay?   It's a adding another negative to the mix that is already out to destory our race; meaning drugs, alcohol, lack of education, welfare, highest in jail population... and adding gay to the list is just compounding the weapons against Blacks.

I found out last week that the President of the NAACP supports gay marriage and went public to announce it before legislative committee.   

What kind of foolishness is that?    

Do folks not know that the gay agenda is a white strategy to empower whites and NOT Blacks?    Black folks are not heading the gay agenda; it's a little white underground organization which has grown by way of spiritual wickedness in  high places.   

There is a heavier fight for gay rights than Black rights.  And I KNOW what I'm talking about...

I'll start another thread, later in a week or so.   You know I'm gonna tell it.  

Love you Alicia...   Your reply  made me laugh...


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Shimmie


I guess I am concerned about the gay issue whether it be about a black or a white person or whatever skin color. I am more sad that Don Lemon  is gay period , regardless of his race.


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## Ithacagurl (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



nicola.kirwan said:


> I'm not into rap, but I respect the message.  I used to be more of a purist about such things, including Christian pop/rock.  And then I just decided to listen to the contemporary Christian station and judge by the fruit of it.  And looking at the fruit in my life and that of people in the city who call in to share how the music impacts them spiritually, it's impossible for me to take issue with it.  Not all music may fit in a worship service or sanctuary, but it might still serve a purpose in the message that it communicates.



I totally agree with this. How can we decide the genre of music that pleases God??? how??? The important thing is that we worship. I have shared the word with kids from Kingston Jamaica via Mexico City to Manchester England and we were creative in reaching that generation. In the mission field you do whatever it takes to win the lost.


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## aribell (Feb 23, 2012)

loolalooh said:
			
		

> Yes, a teacher will be held accountable, but the listener has accountability too.  We are taught to rely on the Word of God and not the word of man.  I don't think Laela is advocating that we follow pastors who err but was making the point that even sincere pastors may err unintentionally, and if we are grounded in the Word, we will be able to catch it.



Definitely.  I was speaking about how we respond once we encounter error.  I think there are some things that are mistakes, and just disagrerments that we might have.  But I think that to remain somewhere that we know teaches error is not right because error isn't just a doctrine, there's also a spirit of error.  I always feel like talking about spirits can sound superstitious, but I think it's something where we can encounter something spiritually and reject it, embrace it, or tolerate it.  I think that by tolerating it we further open ourselves up to it, and the tricky thing about spiritual error is that it is possible to become genuinely convinced of something that is wrong.  Most people who end up on some "off" tangent will have their own Scriptures and interpretations.  A bad teacher can influence that insofar as a Christian decides to sit and tolerate bad interpretation.  It's a way of opening yourself up to the same error in yourself.

For instance, I mentioned the church where I saw error but also had seen truth.  If I decided to stay because of the good parts, I'd also be continually hearing what is false.  It wouldn't be a one time thing because that's the doctrinal stance of the church and how the pastor continually encourages the congregants to think and read Scripture.  And because pastors and teachers are supposed to have authority, it would be putting yourself in a difficult position to sit under someone *constantly* having to be on guard and resist aspects of what they're saying.


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## Laela (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Yes, Shimmie...he is  
I don't have an answer for the rest of your post... 




Shimmie said:


> @Iwanthealthyhair67 and @Laela...
> 
> *Was Don Lemon the reporter on CNN for Whitney's Homegoing Service? *
> 
> ...


 



Are you dropping to your knees to pray Alicia? LOL!!


Alicialynn86 said:


> ..............


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## Shimmie (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> Yes, Shimmie...he is
> I don't have an answer for the rest of your post...
> 
> 
> Are you dropping to your knees to pray Alicia? LOL!!



  He's coming out of that in Jesus' Name.   That's just a senseless waste of a good Black man, who is too good to be living for the devil.   

He's got a good job and a nice manner; he seemed pretty knowledgable of the Ministers who spoke at Whitney's Service.  

He could be supporting a lovely Black woman, in marriage and bringing up some wonderful children who know and love Jesus.


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Ithacagurl said:


> I totally agree with this. How can we decide the genre of music that pleases God??? how??? The important thing is that we worship.
> 
> *I have shared the word with kids from Kingston Jamaica via Mexico City to Manchester England and we were creative in reaching that generation. In the mission field you do whatever it takes to win the lost*.



Ithacagurl... it's wonderful that you are in the mission field.   It's not an easy 'job', but I know you treasure what you are doing.   I can 'see' you _'falling in love' _with each child that the Lord has lead you to minister to.  

I may not like 'rap', but I indeed admire what you are doing and the heart that you have for people's lives that you've touched.  

Blessings to you..


----------



## Laela (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

He's not a bad journalist..sometimes can be a bit smug with guests, but he's adept. He was a victim of sexual abuse, so when the Eddie Long story broke he shared his abuse story. 




Shimmie said:


> He's coming out of that in Jesus' Name. That's just a senseless waste of a good Black man, who is too good to be living for the devil.
> 
> He's got a good job and a nice manner; he seemed pretty knowledgable of the Ministers who spoke at Whitney's Service.
> 
> He could be supporting a lovely Black woman, in marriage and bringing up some wonderful children who know and love Jesus.


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 23, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> He's not a bad journalist..sometimes can be a bit smug with guests, but he's adept. He was a victim of sexual abuse, so when the Eddie Long story broke he shared his abuse story.



Oohhhhhhhh, now I remember him.    

Like I said above, he'd make a nice husband.   This is such a mess!


----------



## Sharpened (Feb 24, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Lissa0821 said:


> @Sharpened.... I am not going to quote your post because you said a mouthful, just like I had the privilege to do in my previous posts about this subject.  You are entitled to have your opinion about what I have stated and come to the conclusion you have reached based on what I have shared.
> 
> My stance will not changed at all, I am submitted to my Pastor leadership and it works for me.  What I shared does not come from a place of Pastor said that makes it truth end of the story.  What I speak and share on this board and in my personal life comes from Revelation knowledge about God and His word.  This ministry has been instrumental in showing what God has said in the bible.  But I had to go home and put God to the test through the scriptures in own my life, during all my past, present and future trails.
> 
> ...


  When it comes to the Lord, I do not deal in opinion. After I had addressed scripture taken out of context and erroneous teachings, these concerns were tossed into the “opinion” trashcan and dismissed with emotionalism and “it works for me.” Well, “it” can change at any time, especially when we get too comfortable.

  You got offended and had to defend your idol, but you cannot handle someone pointing out the flaws. It is not about being right, or what works, or changing someone's mind, but the love of truth. The errors of everyone I have ever learned from kept me from being dependent upon anyone and turning to Him, the Truth. The Lord will still get glory and honor in spite of the errors of puffed up men, but the truth will always come to those who seek it continuously.


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## LucieLoo12 (Feb 24, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

We just got to be lovers of truth


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## LucieLoo12 (Feb 24, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Laela 





Laela said:


> Are you dropping to your knees to pray Alicia? LOL!!


----------



## Ithacagurl (Feb 24, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Shimmie this was like 15 years ago. I need to have that mindset once again




Shimmie said:


> Ithacagurl... it's wonderful that you are in the mission field.   It's not an easy 'job', but I know you treasure what you are doing.   I can 'see' you _'falling in love' _with each child that the Lord has lead you to minister to.
> 
> I may not like 'rap', but I indeed admire what you are doing and the heart that you have for people's lives that you've touched.
> 
> Blessings to you..


----------



## SummerSolstice (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> @Alicialynn86 ...
> 
> Alicia, am I lying?   Being Black and gay is not a healthy combination for our race.  The 'enemy' has enough weapons against 'us' as it is.   How can a Black person have Victory in their lives being gay?   It's a adding another negative to the mix that is already out to destory our race; meaning drugs, alcohol, lack of education, welfare, highest in jail population... and adding gay to the list is just compounding the weapons against Blacks.
> 
> ...



REALLY REALLY GOOD RESPONSE. I can't tell you how many times I say this and people look at me like erplexed


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



SummerSolstice said:


> REALLY REALLY GOOD RESPONSE. I can't tell you how many times I say this and people look at me like erplexed



SummerSolstice ...

I get the 'side - eye' too...   or the 'Whhhaaaaaaaatt she say?' raised eyebrow reaction.  

However the gay agenda is using Blacks who support them as 'toilet paper'... literally.  

Now I usually say 'Bathroom Tissue', however, it's just that bad when I have to say 'toilet paper'. 

When the votes are against 'them', the first people that gays blame are 'Blacks' with the 'shame on you' tactic and they literally 'force' the issue that 'Blacks' should be understanding and supportive of the gay agenda due to the Black experience with slavery and racism.   

    

There is not one thing that the gays can identify nor compare their experience to that of the exploitation of African Americans.   The gay experience does not qualify to even measure up to what African Americans have endured and it never will.   

How dare they   How .... *dare*....they!   

The gay agenda is filled with wwo's... wealthy, white, organizers, whose sole objective is to have rule and submission to their 'cause' which is disorder.  Any African American who is 'with' them are simply being deceived that it is for a 'just cause', yet they join a cause which does not have benefits for the Black community.   

How many more of our strong Black men can we afford to lose?   How many more of our strong and beautiful women have to be defeminized and robbed of the beauty of their true gender as women? 

It's sad but true that a weaken community is most susceptable to negative influences.   The gay agenda is no different than the drug cartels who have taken over the Black communities; the tobacco industry; the liquor stores/bars on just about every corner in Black neighborhoods and/or the huge billboards promoting alcoholic beverages with glamorous settings.   

     

Now this... to weaken our communities all the more.  

See, this what folks who support gay 'rights' are not 'seeing'... It's giving 'permission' to the molestors as in their diseased mindset, it's legal to have gay sex.  More and more of our young innocent boys will be targets for rape/molestion.  Why?  Because in a sick mind, it is now legal to be 'anal' and frontal with the same sex...   Children need our protection even more... it's beyond sad and bad enough with men molesting little girls.  

The gay rights agenda provides for transexuals to have full access and use of women's rest rooms and dressing rooms.   A door WIDE OPEN for men to dress as women and attack them.    Because the stores and restaurants are mandated to 'allow' trannies to have full access to these areas, there will be no monitoring of one women's or teen girls safety; not even in schools.   

This government of ours has fallen off it's rocker big time ... I've never seen such stupidity and nonsense.    

Oh!  And there's more...  foolishness in these 'so called' rights.


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Ithacagurl said:


> Shimmie this was like 15 years ago. I need to have that mindset once again



It's still in your 'heart'... It shows.


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## SummerSolstice (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> @SummerSolstice ...
> 
> I get the 'side - eye' too...   or the 'Whhhaaaaaaaatt she say?' raised eyebrow reaction.
> 
> ...



Yes to all especially bolded. I was posting about a man that walked in on me here at work. He was wearing a dress suit. I didn't say anything cuz I'm a contractor here at work, and he is federal... didn't want to ruffle any feathers. But I was shocked! And then when I posted about it people were saying that I was wrong for assuming that my safety was on the line. Whateverrrr

And also sexual orientation is not visual. Color is. The "struggle" is NOTHING compared to that of blacks through history. In EVERY country not just ours. The Aborigine people, Filipinos... blacks everywhere have a struggle that is incomparable to gays wanting to marry.


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



SummerSolstice said:


> Yes to all especially bolded. I was posting about a man that walked in on me here at work. He was wearing a dress suit. I didn't say anything cuz I'm a contractor here at work, and he is federal... didn't want to ruffle any feathers. But I was shocked! And then when I posted about it people were saying that I was wrong for assuming that my safety was on the line. Whateverrrr
> 
> *And also sexual orientation is not visual. Color is. The "struggle" is NOTHING compared to that of blacks through history. In EVERY country not just ours. The Aborigine people, Filipinos... blacks everywhere have a struggle that is incomparable to gays wanting to marry.*





Then they try to use the Blacks couldn't marry Whites... strategy and that it's the same.... 

Ummmmmm, it's male and female interracial marriages which is *NOT* the same as two males and two females wanting to marry.   

When do they get it?   It is NOT the same ! ! ! ! !   

Who in the world do they think they are fooling with this hypocracy?

  

I'm shaking my head and laughing because I have a mop full of African American curls boucing on my head while I'm doing this.    nono:  .   Even my 'hair' knows the difference and says 'No'...   .


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



SummerSolstice said:


> Yes to all especially bolded.
> 
> *I was posting about a man that walked in on me here at work. He was wearing a dress suit. I didn't say anything cuz I'm a contractor here at work, and he is federal... didn't want to ruffle any feathers. But I was shocked! And then when I posted about it people were saying that I was wrong for assuming that my safety was on the line. Whateverrrr*
> 
> And also sexual orientation is not visual. Color is. The "struggle" is NOTHING compared to that of blacks through history. In EVERY country not just ours. The Aborigine people, Filipinos... blacks everywhere have a struggle that is incomparable to gays wanting to marry.



I wanted to address the bolded separately!   

First, I am relieved that you are safe and not harmed neither approached by that man.   But it's issues like this that women should not have to encounter.    When a man is in a woman's restroom, he should immediately be treated as an intruder and made to leave and not re-enter, otherwise be arrested. 

A trannie is STILL a man and is STILL totally confused about his sexuality.  Whose to say what is on his mind when he enters into a woman's restroom or dressing room.    Let alone...... the men who are pretending to be a transexual... 

    

My poor curls are taking such a 'beating' today...  As I type I keep shaking my head...


----------



## SummerSolstice (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> I'm shaking my head and laughing because I have a mop full of African American curls boucing on my head while I'm doing this.    nono:  .   Even my 'hair' knows the difference and says 'No'...   .





Shimmie said:


> My poor curls are taking such a 'beating' today...  As I type I keep shaking my head...


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



SummerSolstice said:


>



I love my curls.....

  Love and blessings to you Precious Summer


----------



## Spring (Feb 29, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

The deception that comes from accepting and embracing homosexuality isn't about empowering whites..... 

@Shimmie, I'm confused by your statement since we know they use the treatment of blacks and women to say they're also discriminated against.... however how does this empower whites?

ETA...



> Alicia, am I lying? Being Black and gay is not a healthy combination for our race. The 'enemy' has enough weapons against 'us' as it is. How can a Black person have Victory in their lives being gay? It's a adding another negative to the mix that is already out to destory our race; meaning drugs, alcohol, lack of education, welfare, highest in jail population... and adding gay to the list is just compounding the weapons against Blacks.
> 
> I found out last week that the President of the NAACP supports gay marriage and went public to announce it before legislative committee.
> 
> ...


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 29, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Spring said:


> The deception that comes from accepting and embracing homosexuality isn't about empowering whites.....
> 
> Shimmie, I'm confused by your statement since we know they use the treatment of blacks and women to say they're also discriminated against.... however how does this empower whites?



The organizers and leaders and funders of the gay agenda are white.  In addtion, the objective of the gay agenda is not about 'embracing and accepting' homosexuality... that's their method of gaining 'control'.   If folks feel sorry for them; see them as weak and bullied victims, heartbroken and suicidal...... 

These are tactics that they are *over building upon *as gays being the only humans who are under such pressures.  

So why is the gay agenda not fighting for* 'all' humans *under these pressures?  There are far more people hurting in these very same areas and a lot deeper and live in far more pain...

It is a fact, that thre are more agressive measures and rights being sought for and have been granted gays than any other minority, especially African Americans.

While part of the gay agenda includes rights given to transexuals to share the same public restrooms and dressing room areas in clothing stores, there are still African Americans who are refused being served in these same restuarants, followed and trailed in clothing stores as 'potential' thieves, still arrested by walking/driving Black; have limited access to quality education and recreation in Black neighborhoods... and are still not 'embraced and accepted' as humans... in spite of.    Yet gays [namely white] as flamboyant as they wanna' be are still afforded the best in comparison.     

Clue:  Look at their success spreading everywhere... WEN Hair Care Products / Chaz Dean; Issacc Misrahi (sp?); Nate Berkus; David Venable/QVC; ...

Look.... you know this.   Everyone does.    None of us are blind.    There has never been a shortage of success for white gays... not ever.   The gay agenda is milking the 'sympathy' and it's all about 'them' and no one else.   

Do you know that between 80 to 85% of gays have absolutely NO intention of getting married...     NOPE!   They still want to play the courts in more ways then one.   

FACT:  There are gay organizers who ON PURPOSE plan and strategically go to businesses KNOWING that they will be denied service because of the business owners personal convictions, so that they can purposely 'file law suits' against them.    They're doing the same with job positions and housing.  

We have to know what's going on otherwise be caught unawares.   

Blacks who are supporting the gay agenda are being used... it will always be about whites leading them and telling them what to do.    

I'll say this... 

Whenever I share something that sounds or looks 'off' ....   It ends up proving to be the truth.    I'm not making this up.   It's true and it's more going on than what I've shared.    Just keep your eyes and ears open.... 

Mark 4:22....


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## Spring (Feb 29, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

Shimmie we know we're not battling against flesh and blood, but you're making this about white empowerment...

The sin of homosexuality, it's consequences, the reasons and rational are not limited to race. So how are you coming to the conclusion that "they" are trying to empower whites?


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 29, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Spring said:


> Shimmie we know we're not battling against flesh and blood, but you're making this about white empowerment...
> 
> The sin of homosexuality, it's consequences, the reasons and rational are not limited to race. So how are you coming to the conclusion that "they" are trying to empower whites?



Keep your 'eyes' open in the spirit...

There's a 'spiritual battle' that has always been against Blacks... always.

If you don't see this, then there's nothing that I can say, except that you allow God to show you.  

Don't be offended.... Wake up!


----------



## Spring (Feb 29, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

To add to my last comment, imo the gay agenda is about going beyond being treated with respect, but more than that, it's about forcing their values on society, and views that differ from theirs, they want that to be considered hate. I don't see white empowerment there.

If nothing else, I think it's important for you to see the effect of the choice of words you're using to express your view... the effect of hurting people of another race. How would you feel coming into a Christian forum to hear a white individual say "the gay agenda is a black strategy for black empowerment". I think we would come away knowing this persons words and attitude are not coming from Christ. We all are growing, so I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I had to mention that this isn't right.


----------



## Spring (Feb 29, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> Keep your 'eyes' open in the spirit...
> 
> There's a 'spiritual battle' that has always been against Blacks... always.
> 
> ...


 
There is a spiritual battle worldwide against all races.  Christ will prevail.


----------



## Shimmie (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Spring said:


> To add to my last comment, imo the gay agenda is about going beyond being treated with respect, but more than that, it's about forcing their values on society, and views that differ from theirs, they want that to be considered hate. I don't see white empowerment there.
> 
> If nothing else, I think it's important for you to see the effect of the choice of words you're using to express your view... the effect of hurting people of another race. How would you feel coming into a Christian forum to hear a white individual say "the gay agenda is a black strategy for black empowerment". I think we would come away knowing this persons words and attitude are not coming from Christ. We all are growing, so I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I had to mention that this isn't right.



Spring, you can't be blinded by being offended by the truth.  homosexuality only 'weakens' the African American community.   Like it or not, that's the truth.   Whites, gay or straight will always take care of themselves, not Blacks.

Whether you agree with it or not, will not stop this from being true.   The gay agenda is about white empowerment.    There is not a shred of unity among them concerning the Black community and the gay agenda is NOT about acceptance, it is a power enforcement both spiritually and in the NATURAL realm.  

Have you seen these people?  Have you listened to them?  There's a lot you do not know about what's really going on.  And you can't  pass it off on "spiritual wickedness" and let it ride.    It's not that cut and dry.  You still have to be accountable even in that respect, meaning what are you doing spiritually?  

Are you praying?  Fasting?  Interceding?   Or just disagreeing and conceding to the principalities and rulers of darkness?   

Better have your loins girded about with Truth...Your Helmet of Salvation 'fitted' for battle.   If your feet are shod with the preparation of 'Peace', you better be ready to maintain a sound mind and not pass it off on someone else.   

This is blood and guts in addtion to spiritual warfare.    Passing it off on the principalities is hiding from taking charge and stilling the enemy's strategies.  The devil needs to know that you are not playing spiritual games.   

How many more 'attacks' can Blacks handle before they begin to fade out?  Indeed this is about white empowerment over Blacks, for the weaker Blacks become, the stronger whites are over them.  The gay agenda is white empowerment over Blacks who will suffer more than any other race in this earth.  Whites have 'their' money and doctors for the sexually transmitted diseases, while the Blacks are subject to the trials of clinics and the greed of experimentation of pharmaceuticals.    

You need to 'see' and recognize every single enemy and strategy that is out there seeking to destroy 'us'.    I could care less who's offended, there's something far more important that is at stake here than someone's feelings, let along their agenda... I'm fighting for a far greater cause.   The Black community is not going to hell in a gay basket.     Our children will not become blinded by the lure and the lies of the gay lifestyle.    

THINK about what the gay agenda truly represents.   Look at it!  What it's doing to school children, innocent 4 and 5 year olds being programmed to live this lifestyle.   And the biggest population being hit.............The African American community and their children and their schools.     

My prayer is that you 'see it' before the enemy gets to you first.   There's a whole lot going on... it's obvious that you just don't know.


----------



## Shimmie (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Spring said:


> There is a spiritual battle worldwide against all races.  Christ will prevail.



Indeed Jesus WILL prevail.  The question is, 'Will you?'

In the meantime between now and Jesus' prevailing, will you be standing?

This is a serious question.   

As Christians, many of us have a whole lot of quotes and no power behind it.  Whatever we 'say', or state we believe, we better be able to withstand the devil and back it up, because you will surely be tested on it.


----------



## Spring (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> Spring, you can't be blinded by being offended by the truth. homosexuality only 'weakens' the African American community. Like it or not, that's the truth. Whites, gay or straight will always take care of themselves, not Blacks.
> 
> Whether you agree with it or not, will not stop this from being true. The gay agenda is about white empowerment. There is not a shred of unity among them concerning the Black community and the gay agenda is NOT about acceptance, it is a power enforcement both spiritually and in the NATURAL realm.


 
Homosexuality weakens all communities, and like it or not there would have been no underground railroads, end of slavery without whites who had their houses burned or was killed simply for standing up for what is right. You are being blinded by the sin of racism in your heart and the deadly sin of pride keeps you justifying it.



> Are you praying? Fasting? Interceding? Or just disagreeing and conceding to the principalities and rulers of darkness?


 
What kind of fasting are you doing?  Is it a fast to break the bonds of wickedness..obviously not, because your racist statements are at enemity with Christ, and so is your defensiveness when someone comes to you to point it out.  

Your are not fighting against sexual immorality with racism, though you think you are.  

Yes, the "quoting" of scripture for the sake of quoting does not impress God at all.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

The spirit of homosexuality has nothing to do with race. the devil dont care what color we are, its all about souls. A soul has no color. We cant make this a race issue because its not. Jesus said if we lift Him up, He would draw ALL men unto Him.If God isnt concerned about race, we shouldnt be either. There is just as much black gays as white gays. We should be just concerned for the white man, asian, hispanic etc as the black man. I want all men to come to repentance not just black ppl. The bible says we wrestle not against flesh and blood...this isnt a fleshy battle.


I dont care what the media is fighting for but I am fighting for all men to be saved


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## Laela (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

I don't beleive there is one ounce of racism is Shimmie's body. That out the ways.

I agree with you. Homosexuality is not a sin exclusive to any race.. However, I don't believe that what Shimmie is expressing is  this. Because one is addressing a particular issue doesn't mean they are expressing a lack of concern for others. 

This issue of homosexuality vs. afrocentricsm can be a curve ball; there are scholars who are exploring that homosexuality is being used as a tool for oppression, much to the chagrin of those who vehemently disagree. Homosexuality is a sin, but so is oppressing people (witchcraft) through cunning devices and resources (i.e., passing of laws)

Enslavement is still around and we can't put our heads in the proverbial sand, bottoms up. I don't hate whites or any person of any creed or color. Anyone who loves God is on the winning side and I'm on theirs. Yet we are to have the heart of God  ..and what He hates, we will hate. I believe God gifts some to see what other  can't.  We all should be free from all sin, but this is a multi-layered issue.

Homosexuality has a great impact on the community at large, but an even more detrimental impact on blacks, keeping them "enslaved to the culture of death."  

What? Out-of-wedlock births, prison, poverty, racism, diseases and other social ills aren't enough for black folks? 
_____________________​*ETA: I posted an old article, in 2004.... compare it to what's going on today.*



Alicialynn86 said:


> The spirit of homosexuality has nothing to do with race. the devil dont care what color we are, its all about souls. A soul has no color. We cant make this a race issue because its not. Jesus said if we lift Him up, He would draw ALL men unto Him.If God isnt concerned about race, we shouldnt be either. *There is just as much black gays as white gays.* We should be just concerned for the white man, asian, hispanic etc as the black man. I want all men to come to repentance not just black ppl. The bible says we wrestle not against flesh and blood...this isnt a fleshy battle.
> 
> 
> I dont care what the media is fighting for but I am fighting for all men to be saved


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

I NEVER said Shimmie was racist.I am speaking on the gay and black issue as a WHOLE. I am saying we need to concerned for homosexuality AS A WHOLE, not just when it comes to blacks. We have to have the same burden across the board, and not feel more sensitive to it when it comes to black people. Thats all.




Laela said:


> I don't beleive there is one ounce of racism is Shimmie's body. That out the ways.
> 
> I agree with you. Homosexuality is not a sin exclusive to any race.. However, I don't believe that what Shimmie is expressing is this. Because one is addressing a particular issue doesn't mean they are expressing a lack of concern for others.
> 
> ...


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

Shimmie's comments that this is a white strategy for white empowerment are racist and are a stumblingblock for blacks. She is being deceived and motivated to point the finger and accuse instead of calling all men to repentance. Homosexuals are lured by their own desires just as any other person who falls into sexual immorality.

Poisoning a patient, dieing of a deadly disease with more deadly disease doesn't bring the cure.  This is what happens when you use the wages of sin to oppose the wages of sin.


----------



## Spring (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Alicialynn86 said:


> I NEVER said Shimmie was racist.I am speaking on the gay and black issue as a WHOLE. I am saying we need to concerned for homosexuality AS A WHOLE, not just when it comes to blacks. We have to have the same burden across the board, and not feel more sensitive to it when it comes to black people. Thats all.


 
I think she was refering to my comment.


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## Laela (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

I didn't say you did... Spring alluded to that ... I just covered it in one post, that I happened to address to you. So my apologies if you thought I'd put words in your mouth... I'm not fighting with you, but to say one is more sensitive to the plight of one's own "race"  could come off as accusation of racism, or what others know as _partiality_. Again, I don't think that is the case here. There is no partiality in Christ! 








Alicialynn86 said:


> *I NEVER said Shimmie was racist.*I am speaking on the gay and black issue as a WHOLE. I am saying we need to concerned for homosexuality AS A WHOLE, not just when it comes to blacks. We have to have the same burden across the board, and not feel more sensitive to it when it comes to black people. Thats all.


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## Laela (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Not all homosexuals started out being lured by their desires, but by the desires of others... I believe fewer were  born with the predisposition because of generational curses passed on from their parents (the ones who just don't understand why they're "born this way") than those who had been subjugated to rape and abuse by same-sex adults as children, and wouldn't otherwise have been gay.  





Spring said:


> Shimmie's comments that this is a white strategy for white empowerment are racist and are a stumblingblock for blacks. She is being deceived and motivated to point the finger and accuse instead of calling all men to repentance. *Homosexuals are lured by their own desires just as any other person who falls into sexual immorality.*
> 
> Poisoning a patient, dieing of a deadly disease with more deadly disease doesn't bring the cure.  This is what happens when you use the wages of sin to oppose the wages of sin.


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

I would agree that sexual abuse increases the chances that a person would act upon what is 'already' in the human heart (evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, *fornications*, thefts, false witness, blasphemies).  The belief that this is a strategy from whites to empower whites, is the devil's attempt to keep us from repentance... where true victory and empowerment can only be found.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

but you think its right to be more sensitive to a particular race, than be sensitive to all people?



Laela said:


> *to say one is more sensitive to the plight of one's own "race" *


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## aribell (Mar 1, 2012)

****************


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> I didn't say you did... Spring alluded to that ... I just covered it in one post, that I happened to address to you. So my apologies if you thought I'd put words in your mouth... I'm not fighting with you, but to say one is more sensitive to the plight of one's own "race" could come off as accusation of racism, or what others know as _partiality_. Again, I don't think that is the case here. There is no partiality in Christ!


 
Laela, to blame another race for the sin that's in the heart of every individual, isn't being 'sensitive' to our race. It keeps us in perpetual denial of God's truth about our condition as humans and His solution. 

I really appreciated your responses and hope you don't feel I'm being combative with you, though I disagree with you.


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## Amour (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Thanks for taking the time to post this.




sidney said:


> Thank you for sharing your understanding.  I agree with you, and what  Prudent said...God has good plans for us.  Prosperous plans!  But, the  prosperity message today actually in my opinion, paradoxically HINDERS  people from realizing a lot of these things.  Why? Because it teachers  people to seek things first!  It teaches us to use the word and God as  a means to accumulate more stuff for ourselves.  When God's word  says the opposite...he says seek me first!  And all of these things are  ADDED.  When we seek God's face and not his hands, he blesses us.  When  we delight in the Lord(1st commandment) he gives us our desires.  When  we tie love and faithfulness about our necks (second commandment), we  win favor Proverbs 3:3 with God and he causes us to be blessed.  And it's got to be  sincere, God knows our hearts.   We have to truly lay down our lives and give of our selves...God can't use God's word for personal gain.   Let me  show you where I found some real prosperity gospel.
> 
> Matthew 19:29
> "And every one who has left houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father,  or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for the sake of the gospel, *shall   receive a hundredfold*, and shall inherit life eternal."
> ...


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## Shimmie (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Spring said:


> Shimmie's comments that this is a white strategy for white empowerment are racist and are a stumblingblock for blacks.
> 
> She is being deceived and motivated to point the finger and accuse instead of calling all men to repentance. Homosexuals are lured by their own desires just as any other person who falls into sexual immorality.
> 
> Poisoning a patient, dieing of a deadly disease with more deadly disease doesn't bring the cure.  This is what happens when you use the wages of sin to oppose the wages of sin.



Spring...  I see you're using the 'standard Christian throw-around words', when something you don't agree with offends you.    

I truly wish that this is 'deception', however when all of this foolishness with gay marriage, gay tolerance, and the entrance of it started taking bold measures in our schools, neighborhoods and Churches, I made it my business to find out who is / was behind the gay activists and their agenda. 

It's not even about gay marriage; they've have used this as a 'snake oil', strategy to gain sympathy  and support for their cause.   

Do you know that they have 'training' / coaching sessions for their activists'; how to appear before the public and before legislation as 'targets' and victims.     Have you read the points in their legislation that they are putting into law?    They want the power to do what they want and the power to 'sue' and bring fear to those who oppose them.   

Our Black neighborhoods are among their targets.   They feel that they can come into the schools and 'convert' Black children as they are the most vunerable and the easiest to influence.   They have made it clear that these children don't have a home environment of a strong family unit, that the parents do not care, especially because of the numerous single mothers.  

There's a strategy behind this gay agenda that is way beyond marriage rights.  I've made it my business to educate myself; to no longer sit in utter shock clutching my pearls when I hear what's going on.   We can sit in Church all day long and pray, quote scripture and amen the Pastor... yet at the end of the day, we still have to know our enemy and to be proactive to protect and defend our rights before someone takes them away from us.  

Where you are, I've been there.  I made the very same comments only to learn that the ones I said it about were right and I was wrong.   You'll be among the first ones fleeing in terror because the enemy was able to distract you from learning what he's been up to.   

I'm not afraid of people.   I'm not afraid to learn about what's going on in the enemy's camp and then speak up.   Do you really think that I'm going to keep quiet?   You need to find out what's going on.    Otherwise the devil will whip you into a frenzy for being so 'holy', yet without knowledge.    

God's word clearly says that we 'perish for lack of knowledge'.   

I'm not afraid what people think of me when I speak of something that's controversial.  I can't be concerned as to whether they believe me or not.  I am going to speak up, no matter who likes it or disagrees, I'm going to speak up.  

Educate yourself... leave the 'Christian' puppeting where it belongs and educate yourself.   Know your enemy because he surely knows you.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

@Shimmie

I know the comment wasnt to me, but what should we be educating ourselves on?

(in reference to your last post)



Oh wait, I went back and re-read the post.


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

The gay agenda is to target all schools and all children.  You have failed to make the connection that this is empowering whites.  You have simply made railing accusation after railing accusation against people made in the image of God.  No righteous judgement being used on your part.... just slander of white empowerment.  

There are a lot of groups out there such as Focus on the Family and many others fighting against this, but you think the rest of us are just sitting back and clutching our pearls... how arrogant.


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

I believe we need to have the mind of Christ in this. Christ isnt concerned about skin color and we should'nt be either. This lady I know she a real activist about black men and she always talking about the devil taking our black men, but I'm like, the devil is taking our white men, asian men, hispanic men too. Why single out one race and concentrate on them? I can't see myself going into pray saying "God help the african americans ......." I pray for ALL mankind....Jesus prayed for those who was given Him. His mission was so that we ALL would come to know Him..


We ALL are under attack not just blacks...

Look at our brother and sisters in the foreign countries dying for their Christianity..they not black. Are they any less important? No


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## Shimmie (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Spring said:


> The gay agenda is to target all schools and all children.  You have failed to make the connection that this is empowering whites.  You have simply made railing accusation after railing accusation against people made in the image of God.  No righteous judgement being used on your part.... just slander of white empowerment.
> 
> There are a lot of groups out there such as Focus on the Family and many others fighting against this, but you think the rest of us are just sitting back and clutching our pearls... how arrogant.



Spring.... why are you so defensive of the gay agend?  Exposing them is not slander.


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> Spring.... why are you so defensive of the gay agend? Exposing them is not slander.


 
You are clearly showing your motives are not of God when you've read my comments calling ALL sexual immorality sin.

What I've tried to do is point out the hypocrisy present here in your effort to make the sin of homosexuality an agenda for white empowerment.

You can't make the connection because there is none.  There is no compatiblity with your actions and words with the Gospel of Christ.  If you continue maligning and slandering another race, you will grieve God, quench His Spirit, lose His peace and strength and will become a prey of satan... you cannot fight against God and win


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## Shimmie (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Spring said:


> You are clearly showing your motives are not of God when you've read my comments calling ALL sexual immorality sin.
> 
> What I've tried to do is point out the hypocrisy present here in your effort to make the sin of homosexuality an agenda for white empowerment.
> 
> You can't make the connection because there is none.  There is no compatiblity with your actions and words with the Gospel of Christ.  If you continue maligning and slandering another race, you will grieve God, quench His Spirit, lose His peace and strength and will become a prey of satan... you cannot fight against God and win



Spring... get it right.  My comments have strictly been towards the gay agenda... period.   An agenda which indeed was originated, is organized, lead and headed and funded by weathy white organizers .    NO WHERE in my comments have I slandered nor implied racism against* ALL *whites.  I have clearly and consistantly named the gay agenda.   

Get the facts straight.  Everything I have spoken against has been against gays who happen to be white gays who are behind the gay agenda.   I've never said one word against whites as a whole race.   However you insist on making it into such.  

The fact is you are offended that I am speaking against gays.  I get that.   gays have become the 'untouchable idols', that no one is ever to speak against let alone expose them and the truth behind their actions. 

However do not accuse me of saying something that I have not said. Do not accuse me of inciting racism.    Again, get it straight, the gay agenda was originated, is organized, lead and headed and funded by weathy white organizers which is the truth, who, they themselves admit that they are superior to Blacks and in addition take issue with Blacks, especially those who oppose their agenda.   

Don't use God as your scapegoat.  Just admit that you don't agree or like what I've said.   Don't hide behind Christian rhetoric.   It's phoney.  I've been there and done it.  I recognize it when it's played.   It's time to be real.  Speak the truth; face the reality of what's going on in our society and our communities and deal with it.   

Since when is telling the truth uncompatible with the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?   You're not going to shut this down just because you don't like it.   

As I said before... educate yourself.   Save the 'cliche's of denil and educate yourself.    Before you accuse me of anything else, educate yourself.   Get off of your 'pew' and get out there among the activists those opposed and supporters and educate yourself.   Talk to the delegates and the house representatives.   Stop being afraid to find out the truth.   Educate yourself.


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Shimmie said:


> Spring... get it right. My comments have strictly been towards the gay agenda... period. An agenda which indeed was originated, is organized, lead and headed and funded by weathy white organizers . NO WHERE in my comments have I slandered nor implied racism against* ALL *whites. I have clearly and consistantly named the gay agenda.
> 
> Get the facts straight. Everything I have spoken against has been against gays who happen to be white gays who are behind the gay agenda. I've never said one word against whites as a whole race. However you insist on making it into such.
> 
> ...


 
I've have called homosexuality a sin, and have called you on your racism.


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## Shimmie (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Laela said:


> I don't beleive there is one ounce of racism is Shimmie's body. That out the ways.
> 
> I agree with you. Homosexuality is not a sin exclusive to any race.. However, I don't believe that what Shimmie is expressing is  this. Because one is addressing a particular issue doesn't mean they are expressing a lack of concern for others.
> 
> ...



The article... a sad prophesy.     

8 years later,  

_"What about the children?" _  Who's fighting for our 'children'?


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## Shimmie (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Spring said:


> I've have called homosexuality a sin, and have called you on your racism.



Let's get something straight.   *Don't ever call me a racist ... again.  *

THAT is un- Christ like especially when it's not true.   YOU are CHOOSING to use that term against me because you are offended, not because it's true.  

We disagree and this where I will end this conversation with you.   If you say anything more, it's not coming from the heart of God, but from your heart which has been offended.   You want to 'depict' me as racist to justify what's hiding in your heart.

We're done....


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*

Your comments were racist... that is un-Christ like

The perversion of sexual immorality (ETA and it agenda) is a human problem - not a white strategy for white empowerment and when I've simply pointed that out to you, you have made nothing but condescending remarks throughout your post towards me. Somehow you believe that you are also above Christ's commands in that regard as well. *Nobody*, once tonight said anything about homosexuality being okay... this you also KNOW, but you are only interested in twisting my comments because your accusations about white empowerment are wrong and *only poison the people embracing it*. Yes, please stop talking to me...


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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 1, 2012)

Let me say this..this is a forum where we come to discuss different topics. We will have disagreements and agreements. But please lets not take this personally which each other. We are sisters in the Lord and even though we may not agree.we should never feel like there is any aught between each other. We are not going to let the enemy sow disscord or strife over here. He can go back to the OT with that. So lets just agree we disagree...


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## SummerSolstice (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo *

Come on guys yall are black women. For someone to post about being sensitive to those who are against us as a race is EXTREMELY relevent to this forum and discussions.
Its fine to be sensitive to all races, don't get me wrong.
But DO NOT deny... especially as a member of the black race... Don't deny or forget our struggle that we still live in today. 
Shimmie was acknowledging that it exists. Try to look at what you can learn from the post rather than highlighting possible negative issues. Clearly we all know that God loves us all no matter what color. That doesn't mean we need to ignore racial issues, especially when they DIRECTLY pertain to us. 
The ENEMY does not want you to see it. He wants you to be blind to his attacks on you, your community, your family. Think about our young youths! They are being told that their ancestors had the same fight as gays and that is EXTREMELY dismissive and disrespectful.
Being a Christian doesn't mean close your eyes. You must know your enemy in order to stand against him. And the ENEMY will show himself in different ways to and for each of us.


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## SummerSolstice (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Christian Rap Artists Go After Atlanta Mega-Church Pastors Eddie Long and Creflo*



Spring said:


> Your comments were racist... that is un-Christ like
> 
> The perversion of sexual immorality (ETA and it agenda) is a human problem - not a white strategy for white empowerment and when I've simply pointed that out to you, you have made nothing but condescending remarks throughout your post towards me. Somehow you believe that you are also above Christ's commands in that regard as well. *Nobody*, once tonight said anything about homosexuality being okay... this you also KNOW, but you are only interested in twisting my comments because your accusations about white empowerment are wrong and *only poison the people embracing it*. Yes, please stop talking to me...



I hope you can look past the disagreement to try to learn from her statements. It would be wise for you to do so as a black woman. Please read my above comment, and also read up on your politics.


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