# The science of preventing relaxer damage by using silk



## navsegda (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm going to give a quick summary.  Basically, silk can form a protective covering over the hair to prevent it from being damaged from alkaline materials, such as the chemicals in relaxers.  So the next time you relax, try to use something with hydrolyzed silk protein in it (such as CHI Silk Infusion) before putting the chemicals on your hair.

The short and sweet version:

http://www.jajagroup.com/HBADivision/silk_protein.shtml

"After silk protein on the hair dries, it becomes a transparent crystalline protective film. This film can directly prevent the hair being damaged by alkaline materials in hair products. This protective film can increase the hair elasticity and increase the hairâ€™s natural shine. It has a very special protective function in hair products."

But for those of you who need the hardcore science to believe and don't want to listen to me drone on and on:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7060260.html


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## janiebaby (Jan 15, 2007)

I just bought the CHI Silk Infusion stuff the other day and it smells so gooood! Just like men's cologne. I could not stop sniffing it. But back to the topic at hand, I think I will give it a try next relaxer. TIA


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## seymone (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks for the info.. I will definitely keep this in mind for the next relaxer..


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## Anancy (Jan 15, 2007)

Taking note.  Thanks for that.


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## Supergirl (Jan 15, 2007)

Okay Nav--I'm probably going to get that CHI Silk Infusion.  Your love for it has just about convinced me.  

Thanks for this thread.  As always, you have some really neat information to share.  Do you have any favorite conditioners with silk protein?


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## navsegda (Jan 15, 2007)

Supergirl said:
			
		

> Okay Nav--I'm probably going to get that CHI Silk Infusion.  Your love for it has just about convinced me.
> 
> Thanks for this thread.  As always, you have some really neat information to share.  Do you have any favorite conditioners with silk protein?



I love the Motions Lavish Conditioning Shampoo.  It contains silk protein.

Also, the CHI Infra Shampoo and CHI Infra Treatment contain silk protein.  Motions also has a Silk Protein Conditioner.


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## cat eyes (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks for the info..I will remember next time I relax.


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## AKA-Tude (Jan 15, 2007)

I have some silk protein (just straight, no chaser).

Can this be used as well?

I have a retouch session coming up & can use the silk protein then.

TIA


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## navsegda (Jan 15, 2007)

AKA-Tude said:
			
		

> I have some silk protein (just strsight, no chaser).
> 
> Can this be used as well?
> 
> ...



I'd say the straight silk protein would be even better.  Where did you get yours?


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## jrae (Jan 15, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I love the Motions Lavish Conditioning Shampoo.  It contains silk protein.
> 
> Also, the CHI Infra Shampoo and CHI Infra Treatment contain silk protein.  Motions also has a Silk Protein Conditioner.



Navsegda, I assume you use the shampoo after all neutralizing is complete?


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## navsegda (Jan 15, 2007)

jrae said:
			
		

> Navsegda, I assume you use the shampoo after all neutralizing is complete?



Oh, on relaxer days I only use Motions (I'm weird like that haha).  I neutralize with Motions, shampoo with Motions Lavish Conditioning, and deep condition with Motions lol.  I was just listing other products I could think of that had silk protein in them.  However, both the CHI Shampoo and Treatment have a pH of 4.5 which can also restore your hair's normal acidic pH.  If anyone was going to use the CHI or another shampoo with silk proteins in it right after relaxing, I'd recommend using it only after using a neutralizing shampoo.


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## ms.gafeney (Jan 15, 2007)

ok, so i could use the motions conditioner with silk as a pre relaxer treatment and get the same effect?


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## navsegda (Jan 15, 2007)

ms.gafeney said:
			
		

> ok, so i could use the motions conditioner with silk as a pre relaxer treatment and get the same effect?



I would only use a silk protein conditioner (since it's actually wet) after it has dried completely before relaxing.  Most relaxer containers tell you not to use a relaxer on wet hair.  Preferably, I'd use an oil, serum, or spray (that can dry relatively quickly) that has silk protein in it.


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## seemegrow (Jan 15, 2007)

Has anyone ever tried Smooth and Shine Silk Fusion Treatment leave in conditioning creme?


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## AKA-Tude (Jan 15, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I'd say the straight silk protein would be even better. Where did you get yours?


 

Lotioncrafter.com

They have everything - proteins, oils, all the 'cones, etc.

& reasonable prices & quick shipping too!

Thanx!


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## AmyInAtl (Jan 15, 2007)

you go girl....thx for the info....

refining my pj list


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## Catina72 (Jan 15, 2007)

I am relaxing next week, thanks for this info.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Precious_1 (Jan 15, 2007)

Nav, girl  CHI needs to give you a contract you promote that stuff so much   I have it and Janie it _DOES _smell like mens cologne. It works great. I now have a new use for it besides using it to flatiron


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## AKA-Tude (Jan 16, 2007)

Precious_1 said:
			
		

> Nav, girl they CHI needs to give you a contract you promote that stuff so much I have it and Janie it _DOES _smell like mens cologne. It works great. I now have a new use for it besides using it to flatiron


 
This is SO TRUE!! 
I was 'pursuaded' to order some CHI the other day from Ebay!


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## tnorenberg (Jan 16, 2007)

AKA-Tude said:
			
		

> I have some silk protein (just straight, no chaser).
> 
> Can this be used as well?
> 
> ...


I want to know also, where did you purchase it from? Local store or online?


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## AKA-Tude (Jan 16, 2007)

AKA-Tude said:
			
		

> *Lotioncrafter.com*
> 
> They have everything - proteins, oils, all the 'cones, etc.
> 
> ...


 
There you go. It's listed under proteins. They have all sizes & prices.
HTH


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## InnerSoul (Jan 16, 2007)

Thanx 4 posting this Navs.,

Where can u find the chi silk infusion products? do they have this at sally's??


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## navsegda (Jan 16, 2007)

InnerSoul said:
			
		

> Thanx 4 posting this Navs.,
> 
> Where can u find the chi silk infusion products? do they have this at sally's??



Hmm...I don't know if they have the CHI Silk Infusion at Sally's (they just might), but I do know they have it at Trade Secret and JCPenney Salon.

P.S.  I really like your avatar.


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## AVNchick (Jan 16, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> "After silk protein on the hair dries, it becomes a transparent crystalline protective film. *This film can directly prevent the hair being damaged by alkaline materials in hair products.* This protective film can increase the hair elasticity and increase the hairâ€™s natural shine. It has a very special protective function in hair products."
> 
> So, does this only work for No-Lye relxers?


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## navsegda (Jan 16, 2007)

AKA-Tude said:
			
		

> Lotioncrafter.com
> 
> They have everything - proteins, oils, all the 'cones, etc.
> 
> ...



Girl, these silk amino acids look REALLY good.  And to think about all the stuff I could MIX them in?  *rubs hands together excitedly*

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/Silk-Amino-Acids-pr-16295.html


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## InnerSoul (Jan 16, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Hmm...I don't know if they have the CHI Silk Infusion at Sally's (they just might), but I do know they have it at Trade Secret and JCPenney Salon.
> 
> P.S. I really like your avatar.


 
thanx !!! I will definitely hit JCPenneys this week!!! Your avatar is just as great! your hair growth is one that I hope to attain in a year


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## janiebaby (Jan 16, 2007)

I haven't used the CHI Silk Infusion yet but I would like to know if it could be used as a moisturizer?


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## e$h (Jan 16, 2007)

Awwwww man! I just relaxed.  Guess I gotta wait til June to try it.


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## navsegda (Jan 16, 2007)

janiebaby said:
			
		

> I haven't used the CHI Silk Infusion yet but I would like to know if it could be used as a moisturizer?



It makes your hair really soft and silky, but it's not a moisturizer.  Pretty much the only water in it was that used to hydrolyze the silk proteins, but other than that, water isn't listed as an ingredient.


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## Hareitiz (Jan 16, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> It makes your hair really soft and silky, but it's not a moisturizer. Pretty much the only water in it was that used to hydrolyze the silk proteins, but other than that, water isn't listed as an ingredient.


 
I used mine last weekend when I had my hair pressed and my hair was so soft and silky!  I actually used it because you raved about it so much!


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## Royal Glory (Jan 16, 2007)

Thanks, Navs for posting this great info.  I'll be trying this my next touch up!


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## amina kamal (Jan 16, 2007)

Wonderful post!! I love your "Science of hair" approach.  Very informative.  Makes me feel like I actually retained some of the Orgo  !! I will definitely be picking up some of the CHI Silk infusion.


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## LovelyLionessa (Jan 16, 2007)

These thread is giving me a little pj itch for the Motions Silk Protein Conditioner I used to use back in the day.


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## navsegda (Jan 16, 2007)

amina kamal said:
			
		

> Wonderful post!! I love your "Science of hair" approach.  Very informative.  Makes me feel like I actually retained some of the Orgo  !! I will definitely be picking up some of the CHI Silk infusion.



You guys called it Orgo, too?  SWEET.  I know at some other schools they call it "o chem" but I like "orgo" much better.


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## vfee (Jan 16, 2007)

Do you put the chi silk on the new growth too?


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## navsegda (Jan 16, 2007)

vfee said:
			
		

> Do you put the chi silk on the new growth too?



Yes, I massage it into the new growth as well as put a little bit on the rest of the hair.


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## preciousjewel76 (Jan 16, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> You guys called it Orgo, too? SWEET. I know at some other schools they call it "o chem" but I like "orgo" much better.


 
Oh lawd, now I'm having "o-chem" flashbacks!  Me and chemistry weren't very good friends.  I much preferred biology.


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## SerenityBreeze (Jan 16, 2007)

PJ Relapse, PJ Relapse, PJ Relapse

Thanks for the informaiton!! Girl You are Good!


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## lotusspecter (Jan 16, 2007)

Thanks for this.  I've been using the CHI serum for flat ironing for a while.  I googled silk protein and came across this http://www.aurorasilk.com/shop/silk_shampoo.shtml
I have to get it.  I can't stop myself.


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## NeeSee (Jan 16, 2007)

lotusspecter said:
			
		

> Thanks for this. I've been using the CHI serum for flat ironing for a while. I googled silk protein and came across this http://www.aurorasilk.com/shop/silk_shampoo.shtml
> I have to get it. I can't stop myself.


 

I saw that too. It looks pretty interesting. When you get it make sure you keep us up-to-date.


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## deontaer (Jan 16, 2007)

This is bad for me on soooo many levels.  After I was just burned by my relaxer 2 weeks ago, I swore off perms forever...now you got me rethinking this decision since this could be the answer of my relaxing nightmares...I mean dreams.. and on top of that, I swore *not to buy another product*....I'm going to have to make a todo list on wash days to keep up with all the products that have to go in my hair


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## navsegda (Jan 17, 2007)




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## Princess Pie (Jan 17, 2007)

Since the silk proteins form a barrier, does the hair get fully relaxed? Especially since you're applying the product to new growth.


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## LocksOfLuV (Jan 17, 2007)

How much should you add to the relaxer?

Also, when using a no lye relaxer, should you mix in the no lye mix FIRST then add or what?


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## chocolatesis (Jan 17, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I'm going to give a quick summary. Basically, silk can form a protective covering over the hair to prevent it from being damaged from alkaline materials, such as the chemicals in relaxers. So the next time you relax, try to use something with hydrolyzed silk protein in it (such as CHI Silk Infusion) before putting the chemicals on your hair.
> 
> The short and sweet version:
> 
> ...


 

I totally believe this. After using Praital, I'm convinced that silk protein is the best thing out there (next to henna, and together they're the bomb!) for your hair. I've been using it for a few months now, and the overall feel of my hair has changed. Even when I don't have any product on it, it feels much softer now then it used to with no product on. I'll have to try that CHI Silk Fusion the next time I relax. Thanks for the tip Navsegda.


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## navsegda (Jan 17, 2007)

Princess Pie said:
			
		

> Since the silk proteins form a barrier, does the hair get fully relaxed? Especially since you're applying the product to new growth.


Yay, I was hoping someone would ask me that!  

The silk proteins do provide a barrier.  However, HEAT from the chemicals in a relaxer is what straightens the hair, not the bare chemicals alone. Some reactions happen faster than others, but when molecules continually bump into each other during a chemical reaction, heat energy is produced.  Different bonds have different bond dissociation energies (which is the amount of heat/energy needed to break a bond).  With a silk protein barrier, the molecules are going to bump into this and still release a fraction of their energy but the silk is not going to let all the energy come through at that point.  Think about when you use a thick potholder to get a hot dish out of the oven.  You can still feel some of the heat energy come through and your hand may get a little warm, but it's not enough to be painful and burn the skin off your hand like it could be if you didn't use a potholder or you used a thin, raggedy one.

So let's say you normally leave your relaxer on about 15 minutes.  Well, it does not take all that energy released from the relaxer to straighten your hair.  You can actually change the conformation of molecules in space (which is what straightening SHOULD do) without destroying the bonds (think of dough, you can roll it into a ball or you can roll it into a rectangular, flattened strip without breaking it apart, but if you put too much force/energy into it, then you're going to break off a piece unnecessarily).  

Heat can do 3 things:  it can provide enough energy to just make the atoms of the molecule change their conformation in space around the bonds, it can provide more than enough and weaken those bonds, or it can provide way TOO MUCH (when it reaches the bond dissociation energy) and break those bonds.  If you do not use silk and leave the relaxer on for this 15 minutes, then the chemicals will produce more energy than necessary and all the energy they produced is going to get through.  That's how your bonds in the hair get broken because you've let the energy of the chemicals exceed the bond dissociation energy of the various bonds that make up the proteins in your hair (keratin contains several types of molecular bonds so there is no one dissociation energy; each of these types of bonds in keratin have their own dissociation energies).  If you do use silk and let the relaxer stay on for the same amount of time, then each time the molecules bump into the silk, only a fraction of the heat energy is going to get through instead of all of it.  So overall, less energy will get through with the silk, but it will still be enough to safely straighten your hair.

P.S.  I relaxed on Monday with Silk Infusion as a base on my hair and I still relaxed straight.    My new growth came out very smooth and silky.


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## navsegda (Jan 17, 2007)

LocksOfLuV said:
			
		

> How much should you add to the relaxer?
> 
> Also, when using a no lye relaxer, should you mix in the no lye mix FIRST then add or what?



I wouldn't add any to the relaxer.  I'd solely put it on the hair (I massaged my Silk Infusion into my hair with extra on the new growth).  So if you were using no-lye, I would just mix it like you normally would and then apply it after the silk containing product has already coated your hair.  If you are using a silk protein conditioner, since it's wet and most relaxers tell you not to apply the relaxer to wet hair, I'd let the conditioner dry first and then start applying the relaxer to the new growth.


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## Sistaslick (Jan 17, 2007)

Navs, which hair bonds exactly do the silk protein help keep intact, end bonds or side bonds? And is this bonding protection for the cuticle layers or cortical?  Both?

Also, what exactly is the difference between doing a regular protein treatment or using even petroleum based products, oil, and/or other conditioners prior to the process to block the action of the relaxer?  I guess I am asking whether or not you think the benefits of this method are silk protein specificâ€”or apply to any hydrolyzed poteins?  Thanks!


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## Guyaneek (Jan 17, 2007)

Thanks for the tip!  I am certainly sold on the Chi Silk infusion!  Can't wait to get that!!!


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## Princess Pie (Jan 17, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Yay, I was hoping someone would ask me that!
> 
> The silk proteins do provide a barrier. However, HEAT from the chemicals in a relaxer is what straightens the hair, not the bare chemicals alone. Some reactions happen faster than others, but when molecules continually bump into each other during a chemical reaction, heat energy is produced. Different bonds have different bond dissociation energies (which is the amount of heat/energy needed to break a bond). With a silk protein barrier, the molecules are going to bump into this and still release a fraction of their energy but the silk is not going to let all the energy come through at that point. Think about when you use a thick potholder to get a hot dish out of the oven. You can still feel some of the heat energy come through and your hand may get a little warm, but it's not enough to be painful and burn the skin off your hand like it could be if you didn't use a potholder or you used a thin, raggedy one.
> 
> ...


Thanks for answering my question. I have a bottle of CHI Silk Infusion sitting in my closet, but I haven't really used it since I rarely use heat. Now I can get my money's worth out of that tiny, overpriced bottle.


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## senimoni (Jan 17, 2007)

Nav, will this render the relaxer less effective? Maybe my logic is faulty in assuming less alkaline and less "damage" equates to less straigtening? If that is the case it is actually not a problem b/c I am texlaxed anyway so I don't really want my hair to process completely.


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## navsegda (Jan 17, 2007)

Sistaslick said:
			
		

> Navs, which hair bonds exactly do the silk protein help keep intact, end bonds or side bonds? And is this bonding protection for the cuticle layers or cortical?  Both?
> 
> Also, what exactly is the difference between doing a regular protein treatment or using even petroleum based products, oil, and/or other conditioners prior to the process to block the action of the relaxer?  I guess I am asking whether or not you think the benefits of this method are silk protein specificâ€”or apply to any hydrolyzed poteins?  Thanks!



If the silk protein is completely coating the entire strand of hair, then all of the keratin bonds (side chain bonds such as disulfide bonds, which cannot be broken by heat/thermal energy alone anyway, and end bonds [like some carboxyls] which hold the amino acid polypeptide chains together) are protected.  The end bonds are fragile and can break first and will benefit the most from the silk (however, there are other side bonds [that aren't disulfides] which are weak and need to be protected as well because they can easily break too).  So thus, the protection is going to benefit both the cuticle and the inner cortex (as both contain amino acids).  

A protein reconstructor doesn't really offer protection, it offers structure since you are repairing broken bonds and adding new protein molecules altogether.   If you've reconstructed a bond between two atoms that have a dissociation energy of 350 kJ/mol for instance, then that bond dissociation energy isn't going to change when a new one is made (the atoms are still the same) and if you use something that reaches or exceeds this energy, then it's still going to break yet again.  Even reconstructed bonds can be broken by enough heat or other forms of energy manipulation, so that's why you would need something that's actually a barrier (just like you use a heat protectant before flat ironing).  A barrier like silk is different because it's not just adding structure (larger silk molecules don't even have a low enough molecular weight to penetrate in the strand so all they can do is coat), but it's adding a protective layer over the structure that is already there.  Thus, if it's coating the entire strand, then first the heat would have to break those bonds in it before it can get to the hair to start becoming a "threat" so to speak.

I also don't think silk is the only thing that can do this.  Silicones are also very strong and can coat the hair to offer protection (like they do for heat protection).  As I said in another thread, Si-OH bonds can survive anneals of 1000 degrees Celsius.  I use a pre-creme base that has petroleum in it, but the bonds in it can break/melt much quicker with it than with silicone or silk (which are pretty strong); that's why even some people who do use a petroleum base still feel burning and cannot use lye relaxers.  Straight oils by themselves are also not very reliable, since many oils can combust easily when they come into contact with various forms of heat energy (of course, using a relaxer with oils in it isn't going to make your head catch on fire, lol, but the bonds in oils are going to be quickly broken down in comparison to silk or silicone is what I'm trying to say).


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## navsegda (Jan 17, 2007)

senimoni said:
			
		

> Nav, will this render the relaxer less effective? Maybe my logic is faulty in assuming less alkaline and less "damage" equates to less straigtening? If that is the case it is actually not a problem b/c I am texlaxed anyway so I don't really want my hair to process completely.


Less heat from the chemical reaction will get through, yes.  This is actually a good thing because if you let a reaction sit long enough, it will "overheat" in a sense.  It doesn't take all the energy that a relaxer builds to straighten out your hair.  And the bonds do not have to be broken to straighten the hair because atoms can shift positions around molecular bonds.  The silk is going to keep excess energy that you don't need from getting through (unless of course you sit for much longer with the silk than you would without it).  For instance, if you need say, 400 kJ/mol of energy to break a particular bond but it really only takes 150 kJ/mol to change the conformation of the atoms in space (which is what you want to happen when you straighten anyway), then the other 250 kJ/mol is entirely unnecessary and a barrier will just prevent all the 400 kJ/mol from getting through in the same amount of time.  So you can still texlax or go straight (my new growth on Monday still came out straight because I don't texlax).


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## brownsugarflyygirl (Jan 17, 2007)

First, yay for this post! I love learning the science of hair and you are definitely schooling us   Thanks Navs! I plan to texlax in about a year and I am definitely taking notes. I think that I am going to use the Elucence Silk Hyrating Elixir and add some pure silk amino acids for good measure as my pretreatment.  I do have a couple questions for you.

So navs....since protein help with the structure...Would using a reconstructor a few days before the relaxer to fortify the structure then using silk proteins the day of to provide a coating give optimal protection?  Or would you suggest using a reconstructor after as even with protection some of the bonds will be weakened and possibly broken depending on the application time? Or both before and after (even though that sounds like too much protein  )

Also, would henna also be as effective as silk proteins in creating this barrier as it coats the hair?


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## navsegda (Jan 17, 2007)

brownsugarflyygirl said:
			
		

> First, yay for this post! I love learning the science of hair and you are definitely schooling us   Thanks Navs! I plan to texlax in about a year and I am definitely taking notes. I think that I am going to use the Elucence Silk Hyrating Elixir and add some pure silk amino acids for good measure as my pretreatment.  I do have a couple questions for you.
> 
> So navs....since protein help with the structure...Would using a reconstructor a few days before the relaxer to fortify the structure then using silk proteins the day of to provide a coating give optimal protection?  Or would you suggest using a reconstructor after as even with protection some of the bonds will be weakened and possibly broken depending on the application time? Or both before and after (even though that sounds like too much protein  )
> 
> Also, would henna also be as effective as silk proteins in creating this barrier as it coats the hair?


Well, reconstructors will strengthen/add more structure to your hair if used before but they aren't going to offer protection.  The protein from a reconstructor becomes part of your hair and thus it's not actually providing a barrier against anything.  I always use a reconstructor afterwards because it's better to be safe than sorry.  I wouldn't recommend using a reconstructor both before and afterwards (unless it's a really really light protein reconstructor several days before if you wanna add a little more structure only) because the last thing you want is protein overload.  It's not gonna do any good to use silk to protect your hair bonds from being destroyed in one way (heat from chemicals) just to have the strands become too dry and brittle by protein overload, which can cause them to break in another.  If you aren't using silk and you relax your hair, then it would seem pointless to use a reconstructor beforehand because the chemicals would just break some of the new protein bonds in your hair, even though your hair is stronger.  Kinda defeats the purpose if you ask me.  

But even if you are using silk, you are absolutely right about it depending on application time.  Some people let relaxers sit in longer than others.  If you let a chemical sit on your hair for a very long time, then eventually the energy from the chemical reaction will destroy the bonds in the silk.  But everyone here who relaxes is smart enough about it and I doubt anyone leaves it on for a ridiculously long amount of time because they wouldn't be able to stand the pain.  When chemicals heat up, they will spread so even if you are 100% careful about only putting it on new growth, if you let it sit too long, it's going to start "melting" or spreading to the scalp and thus you will be getting some major burns.  Firefighters wear special protective equipment to protect them from being burned from fires, but if they stood right in the middle of a leaping fire and didn't move for several minutes, I guarantee you that all the bonds in that material will be broken and their skin will catch on fire.  So while the silk protects, it's not 100% foolproof if you leave a relaxer on for too long.

I would not use henna right before a relaxer.  Even though henna is natural and it has conditioning properties, it is also very strong and a reaction is going to go on to change your hair color...and you do not want two reactions going on at the same time (you definitely do not want the chemicals of the relaxer reacting with the henna).


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## Dee-Licious (Jan 17, 2007)

preciousjewel76 said:
			
		

> Oh lawd, now I'm having "o-chem" flashbacks! Me and chemistry weren't very good friends. I much preferred biology.


 
   I hate o-chem!! And I still have another semester of it to go... just had to vent.


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## bajanplums1 (Jan 17, 2007)

AKA-Tude said:
			
		

> Lotioncrafter.com
> 
> They have everything - proteins, oils, all the 'cones, etc.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this info, it's a fun site.


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## AKA-Tude (Jan 17, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Girl, these silk amino acids look REALLY good. And to think about all the stuff I could MIX them in? *rubs hands together excitedly*
> 
> http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/Silk-Amino-Acids-pr-16295.html


 
I know! 

I call myself intending to make my own products, or at least spruce up the ready-mades to cater to my needs, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

Now I'll have to order the bigger bottles of silk amino acids!

Thanx for the knowledge!


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## Cholet112 (Jan 18, 2007)

I have been using this with my CHI flat iron for 6 years and it truly is one of my staples. Plus one 12 oz bottle last me, no lie, 1 year!!!!!!!!!!!!! It only takes and little but it packs a big punch. But I never thought to use it before my relaxer. Im relaxing next friday and I cant wait to try it!


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## gymfreak336 (Jan 18, 2007)

Cholet112 said:
			
		

> I have been using this with my CHI flat iron for 6 years and it truly is one of my staples. Plus one 12 oz bottle last me, no lie, 1 year!!!!!!!!!!!!! It only takes and little but it packs a big punch. But I never thought to use it before my relaxer. Im relaxing next friday and I cant wait to try it!



Are you referring to the pure silk amino acids? Do you mix it with anything???


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## Cholet112 (Jan 18, 2007)

gymfreak336 said:
			
		

> Are you referring to the pure silk amino acids? Do you mix it with anything???


 
Im refering to the CHI Silk Infusion.


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## gymfreak336 (Jan 18, 2007)

Cholet112 said:
			
		

> Im refering to the CHI Silk Infusion.




Thanks Lady; Your hair looks great btw


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## toniy (Jan 18, 2007)

I love the knowledge here but I hate that I pulled out my credit card and headed to that site. I just want to try the silk because my hair is fine and I think the extra protection would be great.


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## AKA-Tude (Jan 18, 2007)

Cholet112 said:
			
		

> I have been using this with my CHI flat iron for 6 years and it truly is one of my staples. Plus one 12 oz bottle last me, no lie, 1 year!!!!!!!!!!!!! It only takes and little but it packs a big punch. But I never thought to use it before my relaxer. Im relaxing next friday and I cant wait to try it!


 
This is also good to know!:scratchch 

I went to my beloved Ebay bcuz they had the lil .5oz bottles for CHEAP! Esp. just to try.

But if ya'll really swear by it like THAT, then I must have at least a 6oz bottle!

_***calming down the PJism***  Whu-saa ** Whu-saa***_

I'll wait til the lil bottles get here first _***see Imma good gurl!**:fallenang *_


----------



## LadyJ76 (Jan 22, 2007)

Navs,
What about Lacio Lacio and Salerm 21?  They both have silk protein in the ingredients, would I be able to use these as pre-relaxer protection as well? Is Silk Protein not as drying as other forms of protein?  Would you reccommend using a leave-in conditioner or serum w/ silk protein even when not relaxing, to build a layer of protection on the hair?  I was an English major so you are really schooling me right now!


----------



## navsegda (Jan 22, 2007)

LadyJ76 said:
			
		

> Navs,
> What about Lacio Lacio and Salerm 21?  They both have silk protein in the ingredients, would I be able to use these as pre-relaxer protection as well? Is Silk Protein not as drying as other forms of protein?  Would you reccommend using a leave-in conditioner or serum w/ silk protein even when not relaxing, to build a layer of protection on the hair?  I was an English major so you are really schooling me right now!


I've never used either of those.  I assume it would be ok to use those as long as you let them dry first on the hair.  It also depends on how far down the list the silk protein is (if it's the last or second to last ingredient, I wouldn't use it haha).

I use shampoos, conditioners, and serums with silk all the time.  In comparison to other proteins, silk has a more nourishing effect.  One reason why silk proteins can offer a layer of protection unlike some other proteins is because most of those proteins are hydrolyzed enough so that they have a low enough molecular weight to penetrate into the hair strand and rebuild your hair's structure, but they don't coat.  Also, in nature, silk forms a very strong protective film that other proteins cannot.  For instance, dragline spider silk is stronger than steel when stretched to the same lengths.

http://instadv.ucsb.edu/93106/2002/October7/spider.html

"The molecules are designed to be pulled; they are elastic and very strong. The silk can be extended 30 to 50 percent of its length before it breaks. It is stronger than steel and comparable in strength to Kevlar, the artificial fabric used in bulletproof vests."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/superheroes/

"Dragline silk, which spiders use to crawl down from ceiling to floor, is the strongest of all. Weight for weight it is actually stronger than steel, holding over 280,000,000kg per square metre (400,000 pounds per square inch) without breaking."

With many products that contain silk, the silk molecules are usually too large (their molecular weight is not low enough when hydrolyzed normally) to penetrate the strand, so all they can do is coat the hair.  However, this isn't the case with all silk-containing products because some are hydrolyzed more than others.  Another reason why I like CHI Silk Infusion is because it has large, medium, and small silk protein molecules (which means some coat the hair for protection while others penetrate to gently reconstruct the strand, so you get the best of both worlds:  reconstruction and protection).  Biosilk Silk Therapy for instance only has large silk molecules.


----------



## S.O.S. (Jan 22, 2007)

Can any of the biosilk products be used?


----------



## morehairplease (Jan 22, 2007)

navsegda thanks SO SO much for this thread. I got my texturizer today and can not believe how great my hair looks/feels.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 22, 2007)

S.O.S. said:
			
		

> Can any of the biosilk products be used?


Biosilk Silk Therapy contains alcohol.  Some people said it dries your hair out over time.  Biosilk and CHI are made by the same company (Farouk), they just wanted to improve the formula (with the type of silk molecules as well as not including alcohol and parabens in the Silk Infusion).

As for the other Biosilk products, I don't know if they contain alcohol or not.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 22, 2007)

tishee said:
			
		

> navsegda thanks SO SO much for this thread. I got my texturizer today and can not believe how great my hair looks/feels.



Sweeeeeeeeeeet!!!  I also noticed that my hair came out much better after using silk when I relaxed this time.


----------



## AVNchick (Jan 22, 2007)

Navsegda,
Could a relaxer pretreatment (such as Affirm Preservo Strengthening Serum) and silk protein  be used together before relaxing the hair or would one cancel out the other.

Here Preservo's description:

*PreservoÂ® Strengthening Serum (STEP 1) *is applied to the whole head just prior to relaxing to protect and condition hair during chemical processing. â€¢ Contains Fiber Strengthening Complex (FSC), a revolutionary conditioning complex exclusive to Avlon that penetrates deep within the hair shaft while cuticles are open during relaxing. 
â€¢ Consists of special strengthening and conditioning ingredients that minimize swelling, preserve strength and restore hairâ€™s natural luster.
*Benefits*
â€¢ Retards breakage and shedding.
â€¢ Helps hair retain tensile strength and elasticity.
â€¢ Can be used prior to color services.
â€¢ Decreases hair porosity.
â€¢ Helps weak, brittle hair ends become more pliable.
â€¢ Conditions hair as it moisturizes and adds volume.
â€¢ Imparts a smooth, silky feel to hair.

I'll post ingredients as soon as I can get to my bottle.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 22, 2007)

reunitej21 said:
			
		

> Navsegda,
> Could a relaxer pretreatment (such as Affirm Preservo Strengthening Serum) and silk protein  be used together before relaxing the hair or would one cancel out the other.



I think they would be safe to use together without cancelling each other out.  Your serum sounds good; I don't think it would lessen the effects of the silk at all.


----------



## deontaer (Jan 24, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> With many products that contain silk, the silk molecules are usually too large (their molecular weight is not low enough when hydrolyzed normally) to penetrate the strand, so all they can do is coat the hair.  However, this isn't the case with all silk-containing products because some are hydrolyzed more than others.  Another reason why I like CHI Silk Infusion is because it has large, medium, and small silk protein molecules (which means some coat the hair for protection while others penetrate to gently reconstruct the strand, so you get the best of both worlds:  reconstruction and protection).  Biosilk Silk Therapy for instance only has large silk molecules.



Hi Navsegda...another question for you.

You mentioned that not all silk protein conditioners/leave-ins are molecularly made the same, so is there a way to tell which silk conditioners will penetrate the hair and which one's will just coat the hair?  Are their key words to look for - like Infusion for instance?  The Elasta QP Intense conditioner that I use has Hydorlized Silk as the fourth ingredient on the list and my hair does feel instantly soft after using it...does that mean that the silk molecules were small enough and penetrated my hair or just coated it.  After my relaxer burn scare earlier this month, IF I do decide to relax again, I definately want to use silk for protection, but I want to make sure I'm using the right molecular size to get the best protection possible.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 24, 2007)

deontaer said:
			
		

> Hi Navsegda...another question for you.
> 
> You mentioned that not all silk protein conditioners/leave-ins are molecularly made the same, so is there a way to tell which silk conditioners will penetrate the hair and which one's will just coat the hair?  Are their key words to look for - like Infusion for instance?  The Elasta QP Intense conditioner that I use has Hydorlized Silk as the fourth ingredient on the list and my hair does feel instantly soft after using it...does that mean that the silk molecules were small enough and penetrated my hair or just coated it.  After my relaxer burn scare earlier this month, IF I do decide to relax again, I definately want to use silk for protection, but I want to make sure I'm using the right molecular size to get the best protection possible.



Well, by themselves, silk molecules are very large and it takes a lot to break them down so they are hydrolyzed (which basically just means water is added to help break them down into smaller pieces).  Sometimes on the company's website they will give you details about their products.   Other times you can email someone from the company and they will answer (if they know the answer).  That's what I would do if you are unsure.  I know specifically about the molecules in CHI Silk Infusion and Biosilk because I've read the details on different websites that confirm this.  The good thing about other products with silk is that silk does form a protective film when dry.  So even if the molecules penetrate to the inner cortex for instance, they will still form a film after penetrating (unlike other proteins) over the molecules they have come into contact with.  It is usually good to assume that unless a product tells you that the silk is going to infuse or penetrate into your hair (which means it has been hydrolyzed more than just by the normal process), it's just going to coat the outside because these molecules haven't obtained a low enough molecular weight to get through the cuticle.  If the product does tell you that the silk proteins will infuse or penetrate, then the good thing about this is that even though they will go to deeper layers, they will also get the outer cuticle because that's what they will touch first, and they will form a film over everything they touch (both inside and outside).


----------



## JazzyDez (Jan 24, 2007)

ok navs,

you know you got me to buy this thing (chi silk infusion) in the first place for flat iron protection. I really do like it. Really I dont have time to read the whole thread right now so I am subscribing so I wont forget.

I wanted to see if it was applied to the roots before a relaxer would it also protect the hair or would it prevent it from being processed fully....but I will read the articles and thead later as it may already have my answer.

thanks for the great post!


----------



## chocolat79 (Jan 24, 2007)

WOW!! Thanks Nav so much for this info!! I'll be getting a touchup on Monday and will definitely try this!! Glad I came into this thread!!


----------



## sareca (Jan 24, 2007)

Cool thread.  For those that use Salerm 21 it has small silk proteins.  It's one of my staples.


----------



## jenteel (Jan 24, 2007)

wow what a great thread
*navs* u did a good job!!

i am natural but i add silk protein powder to my leave-in
i knew it was good but didn't know all the specifics 
thanks for breaking it down!
i'm a sponge and llllooooovvveee learning!!!!
this just encouraged me 2 add silk protein 2 some other products i have!!!!

also thanks 2 *aka-tude* for posting the site w/ the hydrolyzed silk protein 
it's cheaper than from nature w/ love's powder form!!!


----------



## kimbaparis (Jan 25, 2007)

Hi Navs:
I couldn't find the chi silk infusion in london. I bought Aphoghee Keratin and Green Tea Restructurizer because the 3rd ingredient is Hydrolized Silk. Will that work? And if not, can you reccommend a few other products that I might be able to find here in France that have silk protein. They seem to have all of the Motions products. Is their silk conditioner good enough? Thanks!!


----------



## navsegda (Jan 25, 2007)

kimbaparis said:
			
		

> Hi Navs:
> I couldn't find the chi silk infusion in london. I bought Aphoghee Keratin and Green Tea Restructurizer because the 3rd ingredient is Hydrolized Silk. Will that work? And if not, can you reccommend a few other products that I might be able to find here in France that have silk protein. They seem to have all of the Motions products. Is their silk conditioner good enough? Thanks!!


You can order the Silk Infusion online from folica.com.  They ship internationally.

http://www.folica.com/CHI_Silk_Infusi_d2300.html

You can also buy straight silk amino acids from this site:  http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/Silk-Amino-Acids-pr-16295.html

They ship internationally as well.

Since you're not talking about the hardcore Aphogee treatment, I think the Keratin & Green Tea Restructurizer would actually be fine, though, if you don't want to purchase the Silk Infusion or the silk amino acids.  The restructurizer is a spray, so that would be convenient at getting the new growth.


----------



## AKA-Tude (Jan 25, 2007)

jenteel said:
			
		

> also thanks 2 *aka-tude* for posting the site w/ the hydrolyzed silk protein
> it's cheaper than from nature w/ love's powder form!!!


 
YW!!!

Well, I'm off to do my retouch w/ silk pre-re-touch (is that a term?!?).
Got my Chi Silk Infusion samples in too.

Check back in later.

Well, I must say the silk is so well worth the effort! My hair is soft, shiny, & straight! No burns or overprocessing from what I can see.

Thanx NAV for the advice. 

Now off to Lotioncrafter for the big btl of SILK AMINOS!!


----------



## navsegda (Jan 25, 2007)

AKA-Tude said:
			
		

> YW!!!
> 
> Well, I'm off to do my retouch w/ silk pre-re-touch (is that a term?!?).
> Got my Chi Silk Infusion samples in too.
> ...



Sweet!  Glad it turned out great for you, too.

*runs behind you to lotioncrafter*


----------



## Candiss (Jan 25, 2007)

I don't have any silk products. But I do have 3 serums: Beyond The Zone heat spray, Silk Elements heat spray and The Fantasia Serum. Do you think I could use these instead of the CHI?


----------



## navsegda (Jan 25, 2007)

Candiss said:
			
		

> I don't have any silk products. But I do have 3 serums: Beyond The Zone heat spray, Silk Elements heat spray and The Fantasia Serum. Do you think I could use these instead of the CHI?


Those are all heat protectants.  Are you sure the Silk Elements doesn't have hydrolyzed silk as one of the ingredients?  If they don't, then they need to take the "Silk" out of their name lol.  The reason why silk is different and better than other ingredients is because it can form a protective film (it does this naturally) that others cannot.  I also posted some newfound information that said that dragline spider silk (which was the type of silk that was implemented into products from the patent research article I first posted) is stronger than steel when stretched, and even though some of those ingredients may be strong polymer chains, they are unmatched in strength to silk.

I especially wouldn't use one of those in place of the silk on virgin hair.  You need all the protection you can get.  If you can't get the Silk Infusion, I'd use some of the other things various ladies have suggested that contain silk in them.  *enter LocksofLuv's thread stage left*


----------



## Candiss (Jan 25, 2007)

Ok, I actually read the ingredients this time and it has the same Ethyl Ester of Hydrolyzed Silk as the chi does but it's cheaper of course. So I think i will use this instead. Ok one more question. I washed my a hair a couple of days ago and put some leave in and hair oil in it. Can I just apply the silk on top of that and relax or should I wash again and just add the silk elements and then relax 2-3 days later? Thanks.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 25, 2007)

Candiss said:
			
		

> Ok, I actually read the ingredients this time and it has the same Ethyl Ester of Hydrolyzed Silk as the chi does but it's cheaper of course. So I think i will use this instead. Ok one more question. I washed my a hair a couple of days ago and put some leave in and hair oil in it. Can I just apply the silk on top of that and relax or should I wash again and just add the silk elements and then relax 2-3 days later? Thanks.



Cool.  I think you will be fine just applying the silk on top of that and relaxing.  It doesn't seem like you have too much product in your hair at the time.


----------



## asiaticlily (Jan 25, 2007)

Great thread. Thanks for sharing Nav!


----------



## Cayenne0622 (Jan 25, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Cool. I think you will be fine just applying the silk on top of that and relaxing. It doesn't seem like you have too much product in your hair at the time.


 
Guru Navsegda!  

What about this product by Design Essentials.  It cost me $17.00 and lasts a very long time but has been sitting under my counter since I stopped using heat.  I don't have the ingredients on hand.
Silk Essentials



Indications:
Healthy, shiny and silky hair is an essential part of everyone? lifestyle today. DESIGN ESSENTIALS compliments this desire by providing hair with moisture binding 100% silk that improves the feel, gloss and manageability of hair instantly. Enriched with natural organic silk, Silk Essentials contains 17 simple amino acids that easily penetrates the cuticle, immediately strengthens, bonds and mends hair cross links from the inside out permanently. Silk Essentials is smooth, aromatic in fragrance and a sensory delight to touch.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 25, 2007)

Cayenne0622 said:
			
		

> Guru Navsegda!
> 
> What about this product by Design Essentials.  It cost me $17.00 and lasts a very long time but has been sitting under my counter since I stopped using heat.  I don't have the ingredients on hand.
> Silk Essentials
> ...



Oooh, that sounds good.  *drools*  I would definitely use it.  I like Design Essentials; their products are really good.


----------



## Cayenne0622 (Jan 26, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Oooh, that sounds good. *drools* I would definitely use it. I like Design Essentials; their products are really good.


 
Thanks!  I will definitely begin using it again.  I put it away when I stopped flat ironing.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 26, 2007)

Cayenne0622 said:
			
		

> Thanks!  I will definitely begin using it again.  I put it away when I stopped flat ironing.



Yeah, I'm probably gonna purchase this one day.

Silk is quickly becoming like crack for my hair...


----------



## gn1g (Jan 26, 2007)

Biosilk, can you add water to make the molecules small enough to penetrate the hair?


----------



## Tootuff (Jan 26, 2007)

Nav,

Will this work with lye relaxer or is it only for no-lye   TIA.


----------



## sareca (Jan 26, 2007)

And the second ingredient in Aphogee Green Tea Reconstructor is silk protein.


----------



## preciousjewel76 (Jan 26, 2007)

For those of you ordering the silk aminos from lotioncrafter.com: are you planning to use the aminos straight from the bottle on your hair, or do you think they should be mixed with something?


----------



## navsegda (Jan 26, 2007)

gn1g said:
			
		

> Biosilk, can you add water to make the molecules small enough to penetrate the hair?



No.  A special type of reaction with enzymes and water is done to hydrolyze molecules.  Just adding water is not enough to catalyze the reaction in a product that has already been manufactured (like Biosilk).  Once again, I made something sound too simple in my efforts to quickly give people a layman's term idea of what "hydrolyzed" means.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 26, 2007)

Tootuff said:
			
		

> Nav,
> 
> Will this work with lye relaxer or is it only for no-lye   TIA.



Any type of relaxer.  I use lye.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 26, 2007)

Wanted to add that Joico has a whole line of products with silk protien that are supposed to be nice


----------



## navsegda (Jan 26, 2007)

gymfreak336 said:
			
		

> Wanted to add that Joico has a whole line of products with silk protien that are supposed to be nice



OMG I LOVE JOICO!

*drools*

Yup, I'm gonna check this out.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 26, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> OMG I LOVE JOICO!
> 
> *drools*
> 
> Yup, I'm gonna check this out.



They look promising. I heard great things about the other day. I saw a lady with relaxed honey blond hair that was pretty long. I asked her what she used and she told me about the joico. We ended up having a conversation about silk protien and I told her about the Chi silk stuff. We were in walgreens and they had the chi stuff so she ended up buying the silk protectant. I promised her I would look into the joico stuff.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 26, 2007)

gymfreak336 said:
			
		

> They look promising. I heard great things about the other day. I saw a lady with relaxed honey blond hair that was pretty long. I asked her what she used and she told me about the joico. We ended up having a conversation about silk protien and I told her about the Chi silk stuff. We were in walgreens and they had the chi stuff so she ended up buying the silk protectant. I promised her I would look into the joico stuff.



I really like the JOICO reconstructors and the leave-in protectant (the foam).  I wanna try some of the other stuff as well.

I had no idea that Walgreens carried CHI.  Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Look, this thread has reached 100 posts!  Yay!


----------



## preciousjewel76 (Jan 26, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I really like the JOICO reconstructors and the leave-in protectant (the foam). I wanna try some of the other stuff as well.
> 
> I had no idea that Walgreens carried CHI. Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.
> 
> Look, this thread has reached 100 posts! Yay!


 
I've seen CHI products at Kroger, as well.  Not sure if they carry the Silk Infusion line, though....I know they also sell some Joico products too.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 26, 2007)

preciousjewel76 said:
			
		

> I've seen CHI products at Kroger, as well.  Not sure if they carry the Silk Infusion line, though....I know they also sell some Joico products too.




Grocery stores are going to out trade secrets out of business


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 26, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I really like the JOICO reconstructors and the leave-in protectant (the foam).  I wanna try some of the other stuff as well.
> 
> I had no idea that Walgreens carried CHI.  Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.
> 
> Look, this thread has reached 100 posts!  Yay!



I have used K-pac before. I was looking into the leave-in foam you were talking about. I also wanted to try the thermal foam for roller sets. They explain the science behind their products very well.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 26, 2007)

gymfreak336 said:
			
		

> I have used K-pac before. I was looking into the leave-in foam you were talking about. I also wanted to try the thermal foam for roller sets. *They explain the science behind their products very well.*



I know, right?  That's very hot.  Science is secksee.

Um...I mean, that's very informative.  *runs out of thread*


----------



## preciousjewel76 (Jan 26, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I know, right? That's very hot. Science is secksee.
> 
> Um...I mean, that's very informative. *runs out of thread*


 
You are too much...you know you meant what you typed the first time!


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 26, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I know, right?  That's very hot*.  Science is secksee.*
> 
> Um...I mean, that's very informative.  *runs out of thread*



Yes indeedy


----------



## AKA-Tude (Jan 26, 2007)

preciousjewel76 said:
			
		

> For those of you ordering the silk aminos from lotioncrafter.com: are you planning to use the aminos straight from the bottle on your hair, or do you think they should be mixed with something?


 
My intention was to infuse it into poos, & condishes, but I found a great Shiseido poo& con w/ tsubaki (camellia) oil & silk aminos in it already (& reasonably priced!). My hair LOVES it & it makes my hair so soft & bouncy!

So the silk aminos were just sitting around w/nothing to do! Now with this info, I put what I had in a small spray bottle to apply directly to the NG b4 my retouch- worked PERFECTLY! 

So now I will keep some around just for retouches.


----------



## Lusa (Jan 28, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I had no idea that Walgreens carried CHI. Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.


 
Yep, it looks like Farouk has diverted their CHI product line. Trade secret and JC Penney salons won't be happy!


----------



## gn1g (Jan 29, 2007)

The Alberto VO5 Silky experience Champagne Kisses poo and Con, contain  Hydrolized Silk.


----------



## Cayenne0622 (Jan 29, 2007)

Lusa said:
			
		

> Yep, it looks like Farouk has diverted their CHI product line. Trade secret and JC Penney salons won't be happy!


 
I just realized that Farouk is right here in HOUSTON!!!  Interesting...


----------



## MoMo (Jan 29, 2007)

Navs,

Thank you for the wonderful information!  This process should be exceptional for correctives right?  Sorry if this was mentioned in the thread before - I may have overlooked it.  TIA


----------



## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

MoMo said:
			
		

> Navs,
> 
> Thank you for the wonderful information!  This process should be exceptional for correctives right?  Sorry if this was mentioned in the thread before - I may have overlooked it.  TIA



Yes, especially then.    The more frequently hair is relaxed between intervals the more protection it needs.


----------



## Hareitiz (Jan 29, 2007)

I bought the silk animo acid from Lotioncrafters.com and mixed some in my conditioner on Saturday.  I could not believe how soft and silky my hair was!  This is definitely a keeper for me!


----------



## VinDieselsWifey (Feb 3, 2007)

hey nav

what about this product from Blended Beauty for a heat protectant:

"Straightening Glaze uses beantree instead of silicone to provide slip, shine and detangling with this lightweight product. 

A conditioning, setting spritz with beantree for blow-drying, ironing or roller setting. Lightweight for best results and free of silicones. Detangles and softens without an oily feelng, while making straighening easy and quick. Aloe and chamomile waters soothe the scalp while added conditioners soften each strand. 

Ingredients: Aloe Juice, Chamomile water, Beantree, Polysorbate 20, sunflower oil, BPG TMC (conditioner), BTMS-50 (conditioner), fragrance, Germall Plus (preservative) "


----------



## navsegda (Feb 3, 2007)

VinDieselsWifey said:
			
		

> hey nav
> 
> what about this product for a heat protectant:
> 
> ...



Well, nothing is going to protect the hair like silicones or silk, so I think it would be good for doing what it says (detangling and adding shine), but I don't think it would be a good heat protectant at all.


----------



## AKA-Tude (Feb 3, 2007)

Ok-

I'm not coming in here any more, but b4 I go-

this is an updated pic in my siggy after relaxing w/silk & using Chi Silk Infusion.:Flahsssss 

My hair was soft, had swing, no dryness at all ALL WEEK!!! I didn't even apply CHI SI everyday!  This combo is certainly a WINNER!!

I am so tickled!:bouncegre 

Thanx again, NAVS!!!


----------



## navsegda (Feb 4, 2007)

AKA-Tude said:
			
		

> Ok-
> 
> I'm not coming in here any more, but b4 I go-
> 
> ...



Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!  Your hair really does look great!  And I absolutely love the color!


----------



## VeryBecoming (Feb 4, 2007)

I just finished reading the whole thread...this website has not helped my insomnia.

This seems very interesting. I should be relaxing at the end of the month and I will probably purchase the straight up silk protein for the website mentioned in this thread. Although, I do really want to try the CHI stuff...who knows..

Question: How much time before relaxing do you apply it?


----------



## navsegda (Feb 4, 2007)

AlexB7 said:
			
		

> I just finished reading the whole thread...this website has not helped my insomnia.
> 
> This seems very interesting. I should be relaxing at the end of the month and I will probably purchase the straight up silk protein for the website mentioned in this thread. Although, I do really want to try the CHI stuff...who knows..
> 
> Question: How much time before relaxing do you apply it?


I still need to get the silk amino acids.  Everytime I look at the site it's like they are calling me...calling me...

Anyway...

When I used the Silk Infusion, I applied it just a few minutes before relaxing.  I didn't have to wait for it to dry since it wasn't wet like a conditioner, so that was also a plus.


----------



## MuslimahTresses (Feb 4, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Oh, on relaxer days I only use Motions (I'm weird like that haha). I neutralize with Motions, shampoo with Motions Lavish Conditioning, and deep condition with Motions lol. I was just listing other products I could think of that had silk protein in them. However, both the CHI Shampoo and Treatment have a pH of 4.5 which can also restore your hair's normal acidic pH. If anyone was going to use the CHI or another shampoo with silk proteins in it right after relaxing, I'd recommend using it only after using a neutralizing shampoo.


 

so which motions product do you deep condition with on relax days?


----------



## navsegda (Feb 4, 2007)

april shower said:
			
		

> so which motions product do you deep condition with on relax days?



Motions Moisture Plus.  If I have the CPR Treatment Conditioner, then I'll use that too.


----------



## nomoweavesfome (Feb 6, 2007)

hey Nav- question?????

 I used to use  a while back* Optimim  synthesis III post-relaxer normalizer* when I used to use Optimum lye - relaxer. I still have some and the ingredients are sadly enough listed in Alphabetical Order:

acetamide mea, aloe vera gel, d&c brown#1, deonized water, hydrolized collagen, hydrolized keratin protein, hydrolized mucoploysacharrides, collagen linoleate, anfd linoleic acid, linolenic acid, arachidonic acid, sorbitol, wheat germ oil, jojaba, tocopherol, soluble sulfer, hydroxyethylcellulose, imidazolidinyl urea, lactic acid, metylparaben, panthenol, peg 60 lanolin, polymethacrylamidopropyltrimonium chloride, quaternium -15.

I remember this used to make my hair really unusually soft and silky, but using after relaxer actually reverted my relaxer and I  ultimately stopped using optimum.  . So what do you think?


----------



## chocolat79 (Feb 6, 2007)

Navs, you are on it, girl!!! I absolutely LUUUUUVVVVVVVVV how my hair turned out after my relaxer!!  

I used the silk amino acids from lotioncrafter.com right before I got my touch-up and it turned out beautiful!! The first touch-up from Phyto, I was unimpressed, but this time, it turned out great!! So, thanks Navs!!


----------



## MoMo (Feb 6, 2007)

Navs, did you address its effects with overlapping?  Sorry might have missed it reading all those posts.  TIA.


----------



## MoMo (Feb 6, 2007)

chocolat79 said:
			
		

> Navs, you are on it, girl!!! I absolutely LUUUUUVVVVVVVVV how my hair turned out after my relaxer!!
> 
> I used the silk amino acids from lotioncrafter.com right before I got my touch-up and it turned out beautiful!! The first touch-up from Phyto, I was unimpressed, but this time, it turned out great!! So, thanks Navs!!


 
How did you use it? Did you spray or just slather it on?  I ask because my silk amino acids from lotioncrafter.com is very watery and I was thinking about using something with more substance to ensure coverage.  TIA


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## A_Christian (Feb 7, 2007)

I am becoming hooked on products with hydrolized silk and cones.  Thanks for all of the info navs.  The Chi Silk Infusion is definitely going to become a staple.  The Design Essentials product is definitely going to be on my to try list as well.


----------



## AKA-Tude (Feb 7, 2007)

MoMo said:
			
		

> How did you use it? Did you spray or just slather it on? I ask because my silk amino acids from lotioncrafter.com is very watery and I was thinking about using something with more substance to ensure coverage. TIA


 
****I said I wasn't coming back in here but...****

I put the SAA in a small, inexpensive spray bottle & as I parted my hair sprayed the SAA on the NG. I waited about an hour, then relaxed.


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## chocolat79 (Feb 7, 2007)

MoMo said:
			
		

> How did you use it? Did you spray or just slather it on?  I ask because my silk amino acids from lotioncrafter.com is very watery and I was thinking about using something with more substance to ensure coverage.  TIA




Well, unfortunately I didn't have an empty spray bottle OR time to buy one, I had just gotten my order the morning of my touch-up, so I just put it on. I didn't put so much that it was wet though. I'm sure next time I'll use a spray bottle and wait a couple of hours or maybe use it overnight if I have a morning appt. But it's definitely a keeper. HTH


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## GGD (Feb 7, 2007)

Navs,
Thanks for the info!  This is a great thread.   You are definitely walking in your gift and I think it's wonderful!!   Keep working gurl!!


----------



## jenteel (Mar 7, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Well, nothing is going to protect the hair like silicones or silk, so I think it would be good for doing what it says (detangling and adding shine), but I don't think it would be a good heat protectant at all.



in my opinion, the blended beauty straightening glaze is not a good heat protectant
hated it!!!
made my natural hair feel funny and it didn't feel protected - just very moisturized 
so i might use it as a leave in
my sis-in law who is (3a/b) relaxed didn't like it either


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## Isis (Mar 8, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I've never used either of those. I assume it would be ok to use those as long as you let them dry first on the hair. It also depends on how far down the list the silk protein is (if it's the last or second to last ingredient, I wouldn't use it haha).
> 
> I use shampoos, conditioners, and serums with silk all the time. In comparison to other proteins, silk has a more nourishing effect. One reason why silk proteins can offer a layer of protection unlike some other proteins is because most of those proteins are hydrolyzed enough so that they have a low enough molecular weight to penetrate into the hair strand and rebuild your hair's structure, but they don't coat. Also, in nature, silk forms a very strong protective film that other proteins cannot. For instance, dragline spider silk is stronger than steel when stretched to the same lengths.
> 
> ...


I'm still reading through this thread and I can't remember if I commented already or not, but you go girl with your scientific knowledge!!   I'm over here taking notes and saving this info. 
My question is, while silk protein is protecting the hair, does it allow moisture to penetrate through the hair?  Is it working exactly like silicones which can prevent moisture into the hair?  Does one need to clarify the hair after using the silk protein?


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## gn1g (Mar 23, 2007)

gn1g said:
			
		

> The Alberto VO5 Silky experience Champagne Kisses poo and Con, contain Hydrolized Silk.


 
How would you know the size of the molecues?


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## ElegantExotic (Apr 27, 2007)

WOW!! THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for this thread!!! I love to know the science behind how things work!! I will def be doing this!!!!!!


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## la flaca (Jun 18, 2007)

I LOVE THIS THREAD :bouncegre


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## la flaca (Jun 18, 2007)

Isis said:
			
		

> I'm still reading through this thread and I can't remember if I commented already or not, but you go girl with your scientific knowledge!!  I'm over here taking notes and saving this info.
> My question is, while silk protein is protecting the hair, does it allow moisture to penetrate through the hair? Is it working exactly like silicones which can prevent moisture into the hair? Does one need to clarify the hair after using the silk protein?


 
I would like to know this too


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## chiprecious (Jul 14, 2007)

la flaca said:
			
		

> I would like to know this too


 
Just adding my two cents..  
I don't think its the silk protein that has the potential to block moisture input.  However when it's mixed with silcone heavy products as the first ingredients, ala Chi Silk Infusion, do you get the moisture block as with as silicone heavy serum.  

Which is why the pure silk protein or a better option depending on your use or hair.


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## Precious_1 (Jul 14, 2007)

Anybody heard from Navs i have missed her with her smart self i always learn alot from her


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## Meli (Oct 8, 2007)

*Navsegda:*

I am natural...meaning no relaxer, no testurizer...The only thing I do apply at times is Henna. *Can I use the chi silk infusion as a leave-in or would I be better off buying the pure silk amino acid from lotioncrafters.com? *My goal is to protect my ends, they seem to be having all these splits...One strand will have 3 splits on it. I think this may have been caused from heat damage back in July '07. I have tried to cut off the bad strands, but I also want to protect the remaining. I no longer will be applying heat to my hair.


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## Soliel185 (Oct 8, 2007)

I actually remember reading something very similar in a thread about texlaxing. Some of the ladies said they got consistantly curly results by coating their hair with a protein conditioner - like the Jheri Redding Natural Protein - and allowing it to dry before applying the relaxer. They were trying to find the secret behind the salon that used to do the "shingling" I can't remember what it was called. The explanation was that the protein reinforced the hair bonds, so you could leave the relaxer on the full time and your hair would not relax straight. WHich in the end would give you consistant and frizz free curls. By full time, I think they mean longer than the 5-7 mins some ladies were doing, and longer processing made for smoother results which corrected alot of the matting and frizz that people had problems with. Silk Protien appears to work much the same way, but b/c it is a lighter protein it allows more of the heat reaction through than the heavier protein conditioner would. It makes sensse that the heavier the protein the less straight your hair would get. I think I will use SAA on my NG next time I relax ( I already use them on the daily in my mascara and conditioners ) and then coat the rest of my hair with a heavier protein to prevent damage from run-off. Threads like this make it so easy!


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## Sly (Nov 26, 2007)

Isis said:


> I'm still reading through this thread and I can't remember if I commented already or not, but you go girl with your scientific knowledge!!  I'm over here taking notes and saving this info.
> *My question is, while silk protein is protecting the hair, does it allow moisture to penetrate through the hair? Is it working exactly like silicones which can prevent moisture into the hair? Does one need to clarify the hair after using the silk protein?*


 
I know Navs is gone , (I really valued her knowledge and contribution to this board) but anyone know the answer? Sistaslick, maybe?


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## Artemis (Nov 26, 2007)

Being that silk protein is a protein, it would not prevent moisture from entering the strands, but actually help moisture adhere to the strands. Protein is for strength, and silicone is for protection, so if you use a product that has both, the silicone might create a sort of barrier for outside moisture (and seal inner moisture in), but it shouldn't be anything that cannot be washed away. In the instance of relaxing the hair, most products that are applied prior to and during the actual process, and further so when using the neutralizing shampoo. Just lathering more than 2x with that type of product should do away with any silicone residue that would remain.

Edited for clarification; I was talking to a co-worker while I typed this...


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## lilamae (Nov 26, 2007)

Awesome info thanks!


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## Sly (Nov 26, 2007)

artemis_e. said:


> Being that silk protein is a protein, it would not prevent moisture from entering the strands, but actually help moisture adhere to the strands. Protein is for strength, and silicone is for protection, so if you use a product that has both, the silicone might create a sort of barrier for outside moisture (and seal inner moisture in), but it shouldn't be anything that cannot be washed away. In the instance of relaxing the hair, most products that are applied prior to and during the actual process, and further so when using the neutralizing shampoo. Just lathering more than 2x with that type of product should do away with any silicone residue that would remain.
> 
> Edited for clarification; I was talking to a co-worker while I typed this...


 
Thank you!


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## azul11 (Dec 3, 2007)

God bless you all.


----------



## JustKiya (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm doing searches on silk protien/amino acids, and this thread is to  for! Dang it's sad Navs left!


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## bellebebe (Jan 31, 2008)

cat eyes said:


> Thanks for the info..I will remember next time I relax.


Cat eyes girl, your daughter is so beautiful!


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## Isis (Feb 1, 2008)

Isis said:


> I'm still reading through this thread and I can't remember if I commented already or not, but you go girl with your scientific knowledge!!  I'm over here taking notes and saving this info.
> My question is, while silk protein is protecting the hair, does it allow moisture to penetrate through the hair? Is it working exactly like silicones which can prevent moisture into the hair? Does one need to clarify the hair after using the silk protein?


 


Sly said:


> I know Navs is gone , (I really valued her knowledge and contribution to this board) but anyone know the answer? Sistaslick, maybe?


I did make a long post yesterday in another thread (on how we are using SAA) that I did research on silk's protein and moisturizing benefits to the hair and skin.  

I have used pure SAA for several weeks now as an experiment on the protein/moisturizing combo  and I can see first-hand how it's working on my hair (haven't tried it on skin yet).  I find it makes stretching so easy with hardly any hairs shed (I can count them on one hand) even in my 20th week post relaxer.  My newgrowth is amazing and so easy to comb through. My hair has not been dry either.  It's strong and moisturized and since this silk is as natural as my hair (actually it _is _hair), it can only enhance it.   Relaxing is going to be a breeze.

I understand and appreciate Navsegda's thread more than ever since I am experiencing benefits first-hand.  If you can see this, thank you Navsegda!


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## taytay86 (Feb 1, 2008)

Would (Dominican product) Partial Silk Worm qualify as a silk protein used before relaxing?

Are you ladies saying a silk protein is more benefical instead of an actual protein/reconstrcutor treatment before a relaxer? Or should this be used the wash after the relaxer?


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## taytay86 (Feb 1, 2008)

BUMP


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## mzhotniz86 (Feb 1, 2008)

taytay86 said:


> Would (Dominican product) Partial Silk Worm qualify as a silk protein used before relaxing?
> 
> Are you ladies saying a silk protein is more benefical instead of an actual protein/reconstrcutor treatment before a relaxer? Or should this be used the wash after the relaxer?


 


no, they mean just use it on the ends of your hair before relaxing, to keep the relaxer from stripping your previously processed ends when rinsing. the reconstructor is best used AFTER the relaxer to restore the some elasticity back to the hair


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## taytay86 (Feb 1, 2008)

mzhotniz86 said:


> no, they mean just use it on the ends of your hair before relaxing, to keep the relaxer from stripping your previously processed ends when rinsing. the reconstructor is best used AFTER the relaxer to restore the some elasticity back to the hair


 
So you mean, adding the silk protein like a hair dress and then proceeding with the relaxer? erplexed


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## Lucky's Mom (Jul 4, 2008)

bumping - wow - good info.


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## Healthb4Length (Jul 4, 2008)

taytay86 said:


> So you mean, adding the silk protein like a hair dress and then proceeding with the relaxer? erplexed


 
Yes, adding silk protein prior to relaxing is good because the silk protein slows down the chemical reaction of the relaxer and reduces incidence of overprocessing. If done correctly it should act as a protective barrier,a buffer; it won't interfare with the relaxer process, it will make your previously relaxed hair stronger and reduce damage since overlapping is inevitable. I put SAA on my previously relaxed strands every time I relax and my hair has benefited greatly.


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## hairdrama:{ (Sep 3, 2008)

Bumping this for anyone relaxing soon...., thanks OP for the good info.


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## *fabulosity* (Oct 18, 2008)

This thread rocks.. I can never read this thread enough. Where is that Navs! She is a brain! Thanks again guys... <<goes to find a spray bottle for the SAA>>.. I think I will use some spray and then coat it with Chi Silk Infusion. For once I'm not nervous about getting my relaxer from a new stylist whose never relaxed me before!!!


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## vestaluv1 (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanx alot for this!


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## ebonylocs (Dec 5, 2008)

Bump................


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## chicacanella (Dec 5, 2008)

I love this thread too! Lot of good knowledge.


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## lavenderchic (Jan 10, 2009)

bumping


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## Mai Tai (Jan 10, 2009)

OK Navs...I am so confused right now.  I love science but chemistry is not my strong point so please bear with me.  

Are you telling us that you can use pure silk amino acids, or CHI Silk Infusion on your newgrowth or on previously relaxed ends for protection from overlapping, or both?  

What are the long term effects of using silk?  If used on dry hair, does it prevent moisture from entering the strand?  Is it a good heat protectant to use before flat-ironing?  Can you mix it with your favorite conditioner?

I know I have a lot of questions but I really want to understand the benefits for my 4a/4b relaxed hair.  Thank you in advance.


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## Mai Tai (Jan 10, 2009)

Dang...I didn't know Navs left.  Any other experts please feel free to chime in.  Thanks.


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## The Princess (Jan 10, 2009)

I have so CSI thats been sitting for a couple of months now. I will be using this when I relax in a couple of weeks.


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## Mertzy (Jan 20, 2009)

Very informative post. I will be using my silk infusion for my next relaxer.


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## Lucky's Mom (Jan 20, 2009)

I wonder if this works for any type of heat treatment.... I will try this with my rollersetting.


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## tnorenberg (Jan 20, 2009)

Mai Tai said:


> OK Navs...I am so confused right now.  I love science but chemistry is not my strong point so please bear with me.
> 
> Are you telling us that you can use pure silk amino acids, or CHI Silk Infusion on your newgrowth or on previously relaxed ends for protection from overlapping, or both?
> 
> ...



Navsvega was awsome.!!!  Yes,I was around back then and that is exactly what we did. I tried both..the Chi worked but was just too expensive. I bought the raw Silk AA which was cheaper for more of it. I add it to my shampoos, conditioners and oil concoctions. Silk is a light protein and there are no long term effects that I know of but a little extra conditioning/ strengthening of the strands.


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## taj (Jan 22, 2009)

Thanks ladies I will try this~!!


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## peppers01 (Jan 22, 2009)

janiebaby said:


> I just bought the CHI Silk Infusion stuff the other day and it smells so gooood! Just like men's cologne. I could not stop sniffing it. But back to the topic at hand, I think I will give it a try next relaxer. TIA


 
*I said the same thing when I first used mine. Maybe it'l help with overprocessing breakage. Thanks OP for this helpful info, I will definitely be using this next time I retouch!*


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## Aggie (Jan 22, 2009)

I relaxed today and I added some SAA to my relaxer - about 2.5-3 Tbs of it to my mild relaxer and also 2 Tbs of grapeseed oil as well. I am trying to texlax my hair. It is just too fine to stay bone straight.


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## newflowers (Jan 22, 2009)

The use of silk when relaxing is one of the best lessons learned - ever. The specific use of silk amino acids and silk peptide powder added to conditioners is also exxcellent advice. It helps my hair stay strong and shiney without protein overload and subsequent breakage. I also add saa to my reconstructor which I use both before and after the neutralizing shampoo.


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## LaidBak (Jan 22, 2009)

newflowers said:


> The use of silk when relaxing is one of the best lessons learned - ever. The specific use of silk amino acids and silk peptide powder added to conditioners is also excellent advice. It helps my hair stay strong and shiny without protein overload and subsequent breakage. I also add saa to my reconstructor which I use both before and after the neutralizing shampoo.



Curious...are you adding the SAA to a conditioner that already has some in it (like Motions)?  Or are you supplementing your favorite conditioner with SAA?  If so, is your fav condish a protein one or a moisturizingo one?  How often do you do this?


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## PGirl (Feb 14, 2009)

Great thread.  I will be using SAA as a pre-treatment before my next relaxer.  Too bad thats 10 more weeks away!  I'm stretching 20 weeks God willing...


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## LaidBak (Feb 14, 2009)

I am touching up in 5 days and I will definitely be using CHI Silk Infusion beforehand.  If all goes well I'll be on the lotioncrafters website the next day.

ETA: I read a bunch more threads and just ended up ordering it today.  There is so much more you can do with straight silk protein.


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## SweetCaramel1 (Feb 14, 2009)

wow. i've missed this thread all these years.  great info!!!


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## unalteredone (Feb 18, 2009)

has anyone else been doing this? i'm getting a relaxer by a possible habitual under processor tomm.... do you think i should even bother trying to protect my NG if he tends to under, not over-process?


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## Aggie (Feb 19, 2009)

unalteredone said:


> has anyone else been doing this? i'm getting a relaxer by a possible habitual under processor tomm.... do you think i should even bother trying to protect my NG if he tends to under, not over-process?


 
Darn, why couln't he be living in the Bahamas. I hate over processed hair. I prefer it under-processed for the texlaxed texture. I still use the SAA in my relaxer when I'm under-processing my air for the added protection.


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## Kiki82 (Feb 19, 2009)

newflowers said:


> The use of silk when relaxing is one of the best lessons learned - ever. The specific use of silk amino acids and silk peptide powder added to conditioners is also exxcellent advice. It helps my hair stay strong and shiney without protein overload and subsequent breakage. I also add saa to my reconstructor which I use both before and after the neutralizing shampoo.


 
New flowers how much silk amino acid do you add to your reconstructor?

Kiki82


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## Momstar (May 18, 2009)

I'm late,but I'm trying this tomorrow with chi.


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## Melissa-jane (Jun 12, 2009)

I love this stuff my hair has improved since I started using it.


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## Daisimae (Jun 12, 2009)

I've never used CHI.  I do spray some ApHogee Green Tea & Keratin into my roots and let it dry before I relax.  The product also has SAAs in it.


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## LaidBak (Jun 12, 2009)

I added liquid SAA to my conditioner yesterday because I plan on relaxing this weekend.  I've used CHI on my NG the night prior to my relaxers.  I think that's why I am now texlaxed instead of bonelaxed.  Who knows, that may be a good thing.


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## Cleve_gryl (Jun 12, 2009)

This thread was awesome!!  I'm relaxing tomorrow and will be using my Chi to coat my hair prior!  Thx!!


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## Avaya (Aug 8, 2009)

Bumpity, bump, bump.


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## MrsSmitty77 (Aug 21, 2009)

My mom has some of this and her hair is so shinny.  I am in need of some shine, I will definately get some.  My mom told me Target has it for the cheapest price.


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## Honey Bee (Aug 21, 2009)

This thread is the bomb.  I think silk might be the missing ingredient in my homemade leave in.  I love smart people.  

So, I'm buying some silk amino acids from fromnaturewithlove, I think I saw upthread that they sell it, and I already buy a lot of other stuff from there.


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## msa (Sep 21, 2009)




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## Zawaj (Nov 4, 2009)

Wow! Another oldie but goodie!


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## halee_J (Nov 18, 2009)

This is one of the best tips I've come across since I started relaxing again. My hair comes out sooo much silkier. I use EQP intense, the third ingredient is hydrolyzed silk. And its cheap!!!


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## morehairplease (Nov 18, 2009)

halee_J said:


> This is one of the best tips I've come across since I started relaxing again. My hair comes out sooo much silkier. I use EQP intense, the third ingredient is hydrolyzed silk. And its cheap!!!


thanks so much for sharing this! I will pick up a bottle for my upcoming touch up in December.


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## AtlantaJJ (Nov 18, 2009)

I need to purchase some HSP stat...to put in all my stuff, conditioners, leave-ins, etc.


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## joy2day (Feb 28, 2010)

I thought I would give this thread a bump for new ladies who may not have read this... AWESOME info to be shared here...


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## Vintageglam (Feb 28, 2010)

Would this be as beneficial for other hair styles such as flat ironing and BKT???


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## mizzy247 (Feb 28, 2010)

GVP Silk Treatment: 

 Cyclomethicone, Dimethicone, SD Alcohol 40-B, Panthenol, Ethyl Ester of Hydrolyzed Silk, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Fragrance (Parfum), C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben


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## gadgetdiva (Jun 7, 2010)

I just got my order of SAA from lotioncrafters.com and I am excited about incorporating it into my hair regimen.  
Anyone still using it...how has it affected your hair growth with preventing breakage etc?


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## Misseyl (Jun 7, 2010)

navsegda said:


> I'm going to give a quick summary. Basically, silk can form a protective covering over the hair to prevent it from being damaged from alkaline materials, such as the chemicals in relaxers. So the next time you relax, try to use something with hydrolyzed silk protein in it (such as CHI Silk Infusion) before putting the chemicals on your hair.
> 
> The short and sweet version:
> 
> ...


 
I wish someone would have told me this about 8 months ago.  

OT:  I'm self-relaxed and never put anything on my ends to protect it from overlapping and if I had this information then, my left side would probably be the same length as the right side. I severely damaged my hair and had to cut it off and am now wearing box braids until it gets to a comfortable lenth for me to start wearing it out again.  I guess that it will be about 2 years before I put in another relaxer.  As a matter of fact, I'll check my new growth to see if I would consider going natural but I doubt it because I just can't take my hair being so unmanageable.


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## AlliCat (Jun 7, 2010)

I luv my CHI silk infusion  It was expensive & seems like a waste to use it as a pre-relaxer treatment


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## chasturner84 (Jun 7, 2010)

I will give this a try when I relax again. I have a huge bottle of Chi Silk Infusion and contempleted throwing it away since I don't use it anymore because I no longer flat iron my hair. It is a great heat protectant though.


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## ladylibra_30 (Jun 7, 2010)

I love this thread. OP is awesome with her knowledge/sharing of important info! I wonder where she is?


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## sonia1965 (Aug 26, 2010)

This thread needs to be bumped regularly!!! Very useful info


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## Nix08 (Sep 16, 2010)

Does anyone have the powdered version of SAA like I do, and if so how are you adding it to your roots before you relax?  I have a spray bottle with water and SAA my plan is to just spritz that in my scalp the night before so that it will be dry by the time I relax.


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## Minty (Sep 16, 2010)

that should suffice. Nix08. I haven't seen the powdered version, but if it mixes well go for it.


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## sonia1965 (Sep 16, 2010)

Nix08 said:


> Does anyone have the powdered version of SAA like I do, and if so how are you adding it to your roots before you relax? I have a spray bottle with water and SAA my plan is to just spritz that in my scalp the night before so that it will be dry by the time I relax.


 
That's how I use it - I saturate my hair, then leave to air dry HTH


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## Nix08 (Sep 16, 2010)

Ah perfect - thanks ladies HijabiFlygirl and sonia1965


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## sheba1 (Sep 16, 2010)

sonia1965 said:


> That's how I use it - I saturate my hair, then leave to air dry HTH



does the silk hinder how straight your hair gets, at all?  Do you end up with more of a texlaxed look or with the same amount of straightness, just no/less damage?


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## sonia1965 (Sep 18, 2010)

sheba1 said:


> does the silk hinder how straight your hair gets, at all?  Do you end up with more of a texlaxed look or with the same amount of straightness, just no/less damage?


 
I've used it this way twice, and I notice my hair comes out beautifully, feels soft and strong. The amount of breakage. I have found to be much more reduced. This is a definate keeper for me, love it.


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## Misseyl (Sep 18, 2010)

I'm wearing braids now but this is good to know when I resume relaxing.


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## sunnieb (Aug 3, 2011)

Interesting thread...


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## Nix08 (Aug 4, 2011)

Just realized I was in this thread almost a year ago  I still spritz my roots with SAA the day before my relaxer.


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## RoseTintedCheeks (Aug 4, 2011)

Anymore updates of success?


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## AKA-Tude (Aug 4, 2011)

Wow! 

I forgot about this thread!

Still a SAA user even though I'm natural now.

Still makes my hair soft.

Love this stuff!!!!!


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## Nix08 (Aug 4, 2011)

AKA-Tude said:


> Wow!
> 
> I forgot about this thread!
> 
> ...



Yes I agree SAA is fundamental to my regimen


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## TeeSGee (Aug 4, 2011)

Nix08 said:


> Yes I agree SAA is fundamental to my regimen


 
Nix08 Hey.. where do u purchase ur SAA?.. I'm in Tdot as well.. thnx in advance.


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## Nix08 (Aug 4, 2011)

TeeSGee I got mine from newdirectionaromatics.ca they have a brampton location you can pick up from.  It's the powdered version.  I just add some to a spray bottle of water.


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## TeeSGee (Aug 5, 2011)

Nix08 said:


> @TeeSGee I got mine from newdirectionaromatics.ca they have a brampton location you can pick up from. It's the powdered version. I just add some to a spray bottle of water.


 

Thanks Nix.. I'm actually in Brampton.. so that will work..


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## mzteaze (Aug 5, 2011)

Great thread although I am natural.


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## sunnieb (Aug 30, 2011)

Bumping......


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## jenaccess (Aug 30, 2011)

Thank you! Thank you for this great thread.


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## LaidBak (Aug 31, 2011)

I ordered some SAA a week ago.  I forgot all about using it as a pre relaxer treatment.  But I like to go pretty much bone straight, is this going to interfere with that?


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## Curlykale (Aug 31, 2011)

nice thread! I have a bottle of hydrolized silk protein that I do not use. Since my mum uses a relaxer, do you think she could spray it on her hair the way it is some hours before relaxing?


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## Giselle685 (Aug 31, 2011)

If I had known these things when I relaxed my hair 5 years ago, there is a chance that I may have never returned back to natural. I am glad with my choice to go back to natural though, but this is outstanding information!


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## bellebebe (Aug 31, 2011)

I can't believe I was on this thread so long ago... Man time flies.

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## sunnieb (Sep 7, 2011)

I really like this thread.....


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## JeterCrazed (Sep 10, 2011)

sunnieb said:


> I really like this thread.....



*following sunnieb* 

Sent from my HTC Inspire™


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## Rhetta (Sep 10, 2011)

sunnieb said:


> Bumping......



Just visited your foki. Your hair is beautiful! I really appreciated going through your pics to see your journey! It is very inspirational especially to those of us who have no patience!


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## cocoagirl (Sep 11, 2011)

So does putting Saa on roots prior to relaxing interfere with
 roots getting straight? It seems like no one has answered this question ..


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## Oceanfox (Sep 11, 2011)

Hi cocoagirl

I once spritzed my hair with SAA hours before a relaxer, allowed it to dry and then used Phyto II. My roots were really underprocessed to the extent, I relaxed again within a few weeks. I think SAA is great to protect the already-relaxed hair though.

I don't think SAA has the same effect on everyone's hair though.

HTH
Karen


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## LittleLuxe (Sep 11, 2011)

cocoagirl 

I know when I first read this thread I was left with that exact confusion. I just said *** it and put Chi Silk Infusion on my roots. I relaxed and got my hair totally bone-laxed just how I like. My hair is also resistant so in my opinion it works quite well on the roots.


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## cocoagirl (Sep 11, 2011)

^thx LL, that was my biggest confusion, I think I have pure SAA somewhere round' here so I will try it out next time


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## LaidBak (Sep 18, 2011)

I used SAA in the two DCs prior to my recent relaxer.  I also added it to the  liquid leave in I've been using.  My relaxer was yesterday; I had it done at a salon.  I can absolutely feel that my NG isn't completely straight.


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## MyCoilsGoBoing (Sep 18, 2011)

I don't have a relaxer, but this thread is the reason why I started using Chi Silk Infusion.


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## sunnieb (Nov 6, 2011)

Bump bump

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## bebezazueta (Nov 6, 2011)

sunnieb thanks for the bump I was referring to this on Napp thread. HTH!


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## sunnieb (Dec 8, 2011)

Bumping

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## sunnieb (Feb 19, 2012)

Rhetta said:


> Just visited your foki. Your hair is beautiful! I really appreciated going through your pics to see your journey! It is very inspirational especially to those of us who have no patience!



Rhetta - I just saw your post!  Thanks!


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## sunnieb (Apr 23, 2012)

Bumping

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## tapioca_pudding (Nov 19, 2013)

bumping....


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## Saludable84 (Nov 19, 2013)

It's true though. Once I started using silk one my hair prior to relaxing, I noticed a difference in thinning on the relaxed ends as well as better texlaxed results.

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## 11228 (Dec 30, 2014)

Hi, newbie here. This place is a wealth of information and inspiring. 

I have a question for PhytoSpe users. Would the experts recommend CHI Silk Infusion for PhytoSpecific users? I used index 2  for the first time after a year of new growth. I recently retouched with index 1 but was so underproccessed, I'm thinking of using index 2 on my next retouch.


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## PureSilver (Jun 16, 2015)

Bumping for the experts to chime in


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## mshoneyfly (Jun 17, 2015)

Not an expert but I did add some silk peptide powder to my texturizer last year and it came out terribly underprocessed.  But I was also taking biotin with keratin and I did the midstep protein treatment too.


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## ItsMeLilLucky (Oct 18, 2015)

Bumping. Glad I stumbled upon this thread. I need to keep this in mind when I re-do my relaxer.


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## Aggie (Oct 18, 2015)

Thanks for the bump @whosthatcurl. I will have to remember to use this with my next textlaxer again in the first quarter of next year. I hate over-processed ends mixed with curly roots. I only texlax my hair every 8-12 months now because I wear wigs a lot lately as a PS. My last texlaxer was May of this year so I have a few months to purchase another bottle of SAA or Chi Silk Infusion or both.


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## KenyafromCT (Feb 14, 2017)

Hello all! I'm new around these parts and I would love to try this product out. I have to relax every 6-8 weeks. My edges and kitchen were rough at 5 weeks but I'm trying to make it to 8 weeks, my last relaxer was on 12/30/16.


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## KenyafromCT (Feb 14, 2017)

Daisimae said:


> I've never used CHI.  I do spray some ApHogee Green Tea & Keratin into my roots and let it dry before I relax.  The product also has SAAs in it.



I've heard great things about the ApHogee Green Tea!


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## demlew (Feb 14, 2017)

Kenya Yopp said:


> Hello all! I'm new around these parts and I would love to try this product out. I have to relax every 6-8 weeks. My edges and kitchen were rough at 5 weeks but I'm trying to make it to 8 weeks, my last relaxer was on 12/30/16.



Thanks for bumping this! I can add this to my lotioncrafter order. I've been using their silk amino acid to help stretch. I usually relax every 8 weeks, but I'm at 10 now - not sure when I'll relax. I started adding half a capful of SAA to my deep conditioner and also some to my leave-in. It's helped alot.


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## KenyafromCT (Feb 14, 2017)

demlew said:


> Thanks for bumping this! I can add this to my lotioncrafter order. I've been using their silk amino acid to help stretch. I usually relax every 8 weeks, but I'm at 10 now - not sure when I'll relax. I started adding half a capful of SAA to my deep conditioner and also some to my leave-in. It's helped alot.




Hello! I visited that website and it looks like the CHI wasn't available! Tonight is my first time learning of the CHI, I've also just learned of the SAA reading this thread! How much SAA do you add? What do you use after you relax ? I'm not sure if i can stretch to 10 weeks! I wish I could! lolol


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## demlew (Feb 14, 2017)

Kenya Yopp said:


> Hello! I visited that website and it looks like the CHI wasn't available! Tonight is my first time learning of the CHI, I've also just learned of the SAA reading this thread! How much SAA do you add? What do you use after you relax ? I'm not sure if i can stretch to 10 weeks! I wish I could! lolol



Hi there! That site doesn't sell ready-made brands/products. They sell the active ingredients for people who make their own products. In this case, I searched for hydrolyzed silk protein and they don't have it, but I'm ordering their VegeKeratin because they say it "Protects hair from harsh salon processes" in addition to increasing hair strength. **ETA: I probably don't need to buy it based on re-reading the thread. Seems like my SAA is good enough, but I'm buying it out of curiosity.

As far as stretching, I've stretched up to 14 weeks before (not on purpose, I was lazy lol). I suffered breakage though, so I started setting my hair appts at exactly 8 weeks. This time, I added about 1/2 capful to my SAA and noticed my new growth was more managable.  Lately, I've been acting like that Frank's hot sauce commercial - I've been putting that **** in everything!"   It's amazing stuff. I'm going back to order the large size since the shelf life is a year and I'll keep it in the fridge.

I relax with ORS Normal lye because no-lye broke my hair pretty badly. I've been happy with ORS lye for at least 3 years. I apply Nutress protein conditioner mid-step and DC with ORS Replenishing conditioner. My leave-in is Sally's GVP Silk Remedy (their version of Chi Silk Infusion).

I'm taking stretching week by week. I know for sure it'll be at least another week because I did a henna treatment last week and I like to give it a 2 weeks gap.

Good luck in your journey.


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## KenyafromCT (Feb 14, 2017)

Ok!


demlew said:


> Hi there! That site doesn't sell ready-made brands/products. They sell the active ingredients for people who make their own products. In this case, I searched for hydrolyzed silk protein and they don't have it, but I'm ordering their VegeKeratin because they say it "Protects hair from harsh salon processes" in addition to increasing hair strength. **ETA: I probably don't need to buy it based on re-reading the thread. Seems like my SAA is good enough, but I'm buying it out of curiosity.
> 
> As far as stretching, I've stretched up to 14 weeks before (not on purpose, I was lazy lol). I suffered breakage though, so I started setting my hair appts at exactly 8 weeks. This time, I added about 1/2 capful to my SAA and noticed my new growth was more managable.  Lately, I've been acting like that Frank's hot sauce commercial - I've been putting that **** in everything!"   It's amazing stuff. I'm going back to order the large size since the shelf life is a year and I'll keep it in the fridge.
> 
> ...


 

Thanks so much! I will buy some SAA soon! so much to learn. It's a bit.overwhelming ! lolol


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## sunnieb (Jul 9, 2018)

Bump....

Very interesting read


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## lorr1e1 (Dec 9, 2020)

Bump


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