# I DUMPED DATING - Choosing God's Best...Wisdom to Lifelong Romance



## BeautifulFlower (Feb 27, 2009)

I have recently read Choosing God's Best by Dr. Don Raunikar. It's about the principles of godly courtship, the destruction that dating has caused on society, marrieges, families and God's people, and how to go about preparing your life for courtship and God's choice of a mate for you. After ending my last relationship of 4+ years and facing how much I have ignored (blatantly ignored) God's warnings, I have decided to dump dating. 

Please dont think of courting and dating as basically the same because they are totally different. What most people are taught about courting is wrong. Courting is God's way of protecting us from counterfeit oneness with men who are not his choice for you. Courting puts God fully in the center at the beginning of the relationship and not throw in after you decided that you want God to bless something He never ordained in the first place. 

This book was recommended to me by a women in my church. She has blessed me tremedously. She got me the job I currently have and she introduced this principle to me. She and her husband went through a godly courtship and are now married and very happy. They did not even kiss until their wedding day. 

I recommend this book to ALL Christian Single Women on LHCF. It will bless you and protect you while you wait for the man God has choosen for you. Remember, God is the Perfect Matchmaker. He will teach you about principles such as putting God first, being in ministry, remaining physically, emotionally, and spiritually pure, acccountability through family and others, the different stages from friendship to marriage, and sooo much more. 

Anyway else read this book? What are your thoughts.


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## moonglowdiva (Feb 27, 2009)

*I might have to get this book. I have been reading Lady in Waiting. Thanks.*


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## msa (Feb 27, 2009)

Thanks for the book recommendation! I'll have to get this...and Lady in Waiting.


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 27, 2009)

Sounds like a great book. That one may be next. However, I've been biased about reading relationship books by women....terrible I know. Women dont give you the best advice when it comes to men. Men know men so I tend to go to men. I may have to stop being so biased.



moonglowdiva said:


> *I might have to get this book. I have been reading Lady in Waiting. Thanks.*


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 27, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I have recently read Choosing God's Best by Dr. Don Raunikar. It's about the principles of godly courtship, the destruction that dating has caused on society, marrieges, families and God's people, and how to go about preparing your life for courtship and God's choice of a mate for you. After ending my last relationship of 4+ years and facing how much I have ignored (blatantly ignored) God's warnings, I have decided to dump dating.
> 
> Please do think of courting and dating as basically the same but they are totally different. What most people are taught about courting is wrong. Courting is God's way of protecting us from counterfeit oneness with men how basically are not his choice for you. Courting puts God's fully in the center at the beginning of the relationship and not throw in after you decided that you want God to bless something He never ordained in the first place.
> 
> ...


 
Amen!!!!!


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## aribell (Feb 27, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Sounds like a great. That one may be next. However, *I've been biased about reading relationship books by women*....terrible I know. Women dont give you the best advice when it comes to men. Men know men so I tend to go to men. I may have to stop being so biased.


 
I understand what you mean.  I tend to do the same thing, at least when the woman is still single herself.


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## moonglowdiva (Feb 27, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Sounds like a great. That one may be next. However, I've been biased about reading relationship books by women....terrible I know. Women dont give you the best advice when it comes to men. Men know men so I tend to go to men. I may have to stop being so biased.


*This book is not about finding the right man, but being the right woman. It focuses on ten qualities of a godly woman and it gets it foundation from the Book of Ruth. Which by the way is a very power book if you look at it from a courting point of view.*


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 27, 2009)

moonglowdiva said:


> *This book is not about finding the right man, but being the right woman. It focuses on ten qualities of a godly woman and it gets it foundation from the Book of Ruth. Which by the way is a very power book if you look at it from a courting point of view.*


 

It's not about finding the right man but then how does one find a man to court?  Can somebody explain what that entails?


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## discobiscuits (Feb 27, 2009)

Thank you for your post/thread. IMO God is not a matchmaker, He does not choose mates for people. I do agree that He will ready people to be a good husband or a good wife. Thanks again for your book suggestion, many ladies here may benefit from it.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 27, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> It's not about finding the right man but then how does one find a man to court?  Can somebody explain what that entails?


Girl, I'm STILL trying to correctly pronounce your name in my head. lol  

Women do not find men to court (well to hear tell they are not supposed to b/c they are off somewhere waiting to be found). 

I think that the book is about becoming a virtuous woman and becoming a good help-meet and if I understand correctly, the book discusses the concept of courting instead of dating. I don't think it tells women to find men to court. 


> Main Entry:       2court     Function:_verb_ Date:1567        _transitive verb_      to seek the affections of       ; _especially_ *:* to seek to win a pledge of marriage from_
> 
> intransitive verb_
> to engage in social activities leading to engagement and marriage
> ...


Generally speaking, courting does not involve physical intimacy preferably including holding hands and kissing or hugging.  It is preferred method is in groups or with chaperones. It is a method of getting to know the person on a real level w/o lust or physical or inappropriate emotional entanglements in the way. Courting is done with the specific goal of marriage. Usually, one courts the person that they desire to marry. It is not a serial behavior.

Dating is like two people go out and do things together and usually leads to physical intimacy (not necessarily sex or sexual situations) that will preclude intellectual or appropriate emotional intimacy. This method, in most cases does not lead to marriage with the person one is dating. A person usually has to date many people before finding 'the one'. Dating is a serial behavior.

I hope I did okay in trying to explain the difference.


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## Southernbella. (Feb 27, 2009)

I didn't read this one, but I did read _I Kissed Dating Goodbye_, which has the same premise. That book blessed my life! I had just gotten out of a really soul-sapping relationship, and I told God I was done. I read that book, prayed, and told God I wouldn't go on another date until he sent me my husband. 

I don't know that everyone should take that same path, but it definitely worked for me.


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 27, 2009)

So how did that work for you and how is your marriage now? Did it benefit or suffer from waiting? Did your husband appreciate it? Can you explain in more detail if you dont mind....



Southernbella. said:


> I didn't read this one, but I did read _I Kissed Dating Goodbye_, which has the same premise. That book blessed my life! I had just gotten out of a really soul-sapping relationship, and I told God I was done. I read that book, prayed, and told God I wouldn't go on another date until he sent me my husband.
> 
> I don't know that everyone should take that same path, but it definitely worked for me.


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 27, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> It's not about finding the right man but then how does one find a man to court? Can somebody explain what that entails?


 
You dont do the finding. Thats God's job. He already knows who he has in mind for you. Next to your decision to follow Christ, choosing a mate is a major decision. DO NOT leave this to chance of random dating. God does not leave this to chance for you and has a unique and specific plan for you, that includes your marriege partner. Submit your will and desires to him, let him guide you. You can have a good choice in a mate, or a God choice in a mate. I choose a God choice. Get into ministry. Develop your identity in Christ, yourself as a woman, and a spirit of servanthood. God will prepare the man of your desires.


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## Southernbella. (Feb 27, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> So how did that work for you and how is your marriage now? Did it benefit or suffer from waiting? Did your husband appreciate it? Can you explain in more detail if you dont mind....


 
Well, I was about 19 at the time, so take that into consideration. I was at a point where I knew I had to heal from a destructive relationship and I knew I needed to get closer to God. I also knew that dating romantically would be a distraction from that. 

I didn't even really want to date. I wanted to get married. My mindset was that it's a complete waste of time to have a boyfriend for a year, then break up, then have another boyfriend for a few months, then break up. It serves no purpose other than to expose you to temptation. 

So I just stopped dating. No giving out numbers, no movies, no time alone with any man who wasn't a relative. I spent my free time with my friends, praying, studying, and just getting to know God and myself. 

I met my dh when I was 22. There was another guy courting me, but I was getting ready to cut him off, because he kept pressuring me to date. (Sidenote: He just got out of jail. God knows what he's doing). My dh and I knew each other through mutual friends. We would all go out on group outings, like dinner, or going to movies or games. We also had potluck dinners. There were about 8 of us. We would sit around and talk about relationships and that's how my husband started to notice me.

He knew I didn't date, so found other ways to be around me. We eventually started talking on the phone, but we never let it get romantic. We really got to know each other and by the time he told me he wanted to marry me, I felt the same and that was it. 

To sum all that up, I think our ages were a big factor. I can't say that I'd have done the same thing at 29 or 39 that I did at 19. Also, I was coming out of a relationship that had destroyed a lot of my spirit. I didn't know who I was or what I needed, and during my non-dating years, God restored my soul and spoke to me in ways that really haven't happened since. Even though it was lonely at times, I wouldn't change it for the world.

Coincidentally, my dh wasn't really dating when he met me. He was at a crossroads in his own life. I think we were just old souls. He knew he wanted to get married (he was 19), but since he wasn't in the position to do it, he decided to wait until he was to get serious with someone.

Our marriage is a typical marriage. Ups, downs, happiness, annoyance..the usual. We are in love and we know that the way we did it was exactly the way it was supposed to go for us. We know we were destined for this, so there isn't a fear of one of us going anywhere.

ETA: My dh definitely appreciates it. He told me that he's never had to work so hard at anything in his life. When he first heard me say I didn't date, he said he just sat there thinking, "She's going to be alone for the rest of her life". He called my best friend to ask her what to do, and she wouldn't tell him anything, so he knew he had to rely on God to lead him. 

HTH!


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## momi (Feb 27, 2009)

Southernbella. said:


> Well, I was about 19 at the time, so take that into consideration. I was at a point where I knew I had to heal from a destructive relationship and I knew I needed to get closer to God. I also knew that dating romantically would be a distraction from that.
> 
> I didn't even really want to date. I wanted to get married. My mindset was that it's a complete waste of time to have a boyfriend for a year, then break up, then have another boyfriend for a few months, then break up. It serves no purpose other than to expose you to temptation.
> 
> ...


 
What a beautiful testimony!  Thanks for sharing


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## aribell (Feb 28, 2009)

Thanks Southernbella for your story!

You know, I'm really considering committing to courting only.  As much as "Christian dating" advocates criticize the approach, the stories that I hear of courting are _always_ lovely and good and true and sweet.  They seem to reflect, ultimately, a desire to be submitted to the Lord in all things, which is probably why they bear such good fruit.


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 28, 2009)

Thank you so much for sharing. I love to hear stories about successful courtships. It gives me hope and reinforces my conviction in where God is pointing my life. And this is a common thread I find in courtship couples.... Whenever there are problems, they always remember that God destined for them to be together. 


Southernbella. said:


> Well, I was about 19 at the time, so take that into consideration. I was at a point where I knew I had to heal from a destructive relationship and I knew I needed to get closer to God. I also knew that dating romantically would be a distraction from that.
> 
> I didn't even really want to date. I wanted to get married. My mindset was that it's a complete waste of time to have a boyfriend for a year, then break up, then have another boyfriend for a few months, then break up. It serves no purpose other than to expose you to temptation.
> 
> ...


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 28, 2009)

It's also funny you say you don't think you would do this at an older age because most women I hear do this Are in their late 20s n 30s. Pain of consistent failed relationships knows no age. I am 23 now and in grad school so I can hold off. I haven't been single ( or not have some man in my face) since I was 13 so I am really enjoying this time alone.


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## inthepink (Feb 28, 2009)

Yes, I read that book a few years ago and I agree with a lot of what it has to say.  But with internet dating, it is a little different.

However, I will not "hang out" with men without the intent of dating.  I had to deal with that issue last year and I tried it and realized it is not something that I feel right about.

If I'm hanging out with some guy - everyone assumes he is my boyfriend so that is blocking other potentials from getting to know me.

And typically in those situations, one or the other is truly interested in the person and it just never works out in the end.

At my age though, it is so much harder to find "groups" of single people to hang out with.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 28, 2009)

hairlove said:


> However, I will not "hang out" with men without the intent of dating.  I had to deal with that issue last year and I tried it and realized it is not something that I feel right about.



This is such an important point. I learned this as well not long ago. I had to specifically tell a good male friend of mine that we could not "hang out" anymore because he had no intentions of pursuing marriage with me. We were platonic, so it wasn't an issue of sex or anything like that, but he just enjoyed the benefits of my friendship and companionship while in turn keeping me out of circulation for men who potentially would be interested in courtship.

It has been very empowering to turn down "hanging out" offers, I must say!


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## MrsHouston (Feb 28, 2009)

I highly recommend this book to singles.  

I read this book when I was single and did in fact "kiss dating goodbye".  I also went to a seminar that was held by Dr. Ron Raunikar.  As a result, DH and I entered into a courtship before getting married and almost 6 years later we are very thankful for it.  I will definitely teach and promote courtship for my kids. 

I really don't think it's God intent for singles to enter into all these emotional dating relationships/rollercoasters before marriage.  This book provides a way out for people who want to do it God's way.  I can go on and on about how much this book blessed my life while single and changed my life.




prettyfaceANB said:


> I have recently read* Choosing God's Best by Dr. Don Raunikar.* It's about the principles of godly courtship, the destruction that dating has caused on society, marrieges, families and God's people, and how to go about preparing your life for courtship and God's choice of a mate for you. After ending my last relationship of 4+ years and facing how much I have ignored (blatantly ignored) God's warnings, I have decided to dump dating.
> 
> Please do think of courting and dating as basically the same but they are totally different. What most people are taught about courting is wrong. Courting is God's way of protecting us from counterfeit oneness with men how basically are not his choice for you. Courting puts God's fully in the center at the beginning of the relationship and not throw in after you decided that you want God to bless something He never ordained in the first place.
> 
> ...


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## Southernbella. (Feb 28, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> It's also funny you say you don't think you would do this at an older age because most women I hear do this Are in their late 20s n 30s. Pain of consistent failed relationships knows no age. I am 23 now and in grad school so I can hold off. I haven't been single ( or not have some man in my face) since I was 13 so I am really enjoying this time alone.


 
This is a good point. I guess I just always thought it was easy for me to say how well it works when I was 19 and not really at a marrying age. I'm sure I would have felt the same way about dating (not wanting to have pointless relationships), I'm just not sure if my path would have been exactly the same if I was older.


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## Highly Favored8 (Feb 28, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Sounds like a great. That one may be next. However, I've been biased about reading relationship books by women....terrible I know. Women dont give you the best advice when it comes to men. Men know men so I tend to go to men. I may have to stop being so biased.


 

What you said is so true.


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## kweenameena (Feb 28, 2009)

great thread.....I never knew that courting was done in groups


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## BeautifulFlower (Feb 28, 2009)

Well, its great you started young. I hope to inspire many young teenage girls to dump dating because it will save them alot of heartache. Its better to just wait until God sends you someone thats serious about you. 



Southernbella. said:


> This is a good point. I guess I just always thought it was easy for me to say how well it works when I was 19 and not really at a marrying age. I'm sure I would have felt the same way about dating (not wanting to have pointless relationships), I'm just not sure if my path would have been exactly the same if I was older.


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## Ramya (Feb 28, 2009)

Southernbella. said:


> I didn't read this one, but I did read _I Kissed Dating Goodbye_, which has the same premise. That book blessed my life! I had just gotten out of a really soul-sapping relationship, and I told God I was done. I read that book, prayed, and told God I wouldn't go on another date until he sent me my husband.
> 
> I don't know that everyone should take that same path, but it definitely worked for me.



I read the same book. Everything makes sense now.


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## mellowmel (Feb 28, 2009)

I've been so enthralled by the idea of courting since I started on my spiritual journey. I just ordered Choose God's Best on Amazon. Dating isn't healthy especially when you're giving your all. It takes just as long for the heart, mind, and spirit to heal from a breakup and gain your sense of self back. I'm glad to say that I've been moving forward from the past and healing me for myself and my daughter thanks to God, church, Christian reading and you ladies.


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## kayte (Feb 28, 2009)

Christian marriages can and do arise from Christian dating!   One of the loveliest couples I knew began as a dating relationship and subsequently formally entered a courship..they did not kiss until the wedding ceremony...had their beautiful son at 40 
Too many Christians date successfully..and marry....to isolate dating as a spiritual obstacle 

it's easy to absolve responsibilty and say dating is culprit..that's like saying money is evil..but it's not..  _it's the love of money... is the root of all evil_..and so it is with dating 
it is not the practice of dating per se..but the behavior, spiritual maturity, emotional balance and ethic of people who enter into it.

So...I agree wholeheartedly if  a woman or man cannot handle dating without compromsing godly values ..and putting God first ...but instead embark on emotional upheaval after the next...then one certainly ought to dump that troubling practice and  abstain from dating altogether....most definitely 

However....in all fairness and honesty...many Christians do date..lol some even kiss and are firmly rooted in the holy arena of choosing God's Best and Wisdom to Romance...  

Simply choosing not to date does not exempt everyone else who chooses to date from God's best or His blessing on that person or His miracles!!

Choosing not to date _only means it happens to be best for that particular person in their particular intimate relationship and walk with God _and that person's history and personal culture will empower them to do what the OP and others in this thread did ..seek out material  to substantiate this need...that particular walk and that's all good! 

((smiles)) Remember...many of world's Christian couples are comprised of all
different methods of coming together..not just one... 
otherwise the world would be full of singles having discussion on being married....

I also echo OP in the other thread ..no desire to make debate ..

a (one only) counterpoint from a serious committed Christian centered in her own life 
who loves the Lord..who actively happily enters into godly spiritual dating and is experiencing incredible blessings from the Lord pouring in her life..no doubt


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## Southernbella. (Mar 1, 2009)

kayte said:


> Choosing not to date _only means it happens to be best for that particular person in their particular intimate relationship and walk with God _and that person's history and personal culture will empower them to do what the OP and others in this thread did ..seek out material to substantiate this need...that particular walk and that's all good!
> 
> ((smiles)) Remember...many of world's Christian couples are comprised of all
> different methods of coming together..not just one...
> otherwise the world would be full of singles having discussion on being married....


 
ITA!


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 1, 2009)

Sounds like your friends were just friends than they courted. If you had read the book, you could get a clear understanding of the differences between the PRINCIPLES of dating and courting (most people throw these words around but its the principles that count). 

While many have successfully dated and gotten married, this is not the case for MOST without alot of pain to get there if they marry at all (do you know how many black women NEVER MARRY? its crazy). The principles in dating do not reflect the principles of Christianity therefore "Christian dating" is actually an oxymoron. 
Its not impossible to find love and marry through dating obviously because people marry everyday that have not courted. However, do you know what their marriege is like? The problems they had while dating that they now have to deal with in a marriege. The obscene divorce rate that is going up because people are marrying people for all the wrong reasons. Wives dealing with their husbands lack of self-control or insensitivity. Husbands dealing with their wives neglect, etc...the list of problems go on and on. These problems did not start overnight, they started during their dating relationship. And whats the point of getting married if you get divorced? Defeats the purpose completely. 

 I am not saying that courting releases you from problems in a marriege. However, courting does give you a security that dating simply does not. God makes sure that this person will work for you. If you two follow his commands, God will bless your union with peace and longivity. 

Most relationships come together and they fit God in there somewhere. Or you pick someone and ask God to bless it. God dont work like that. He has a plan for you and thats what he anoints. All things work together for the good but when you do follow the will of God, you're in sin, simple. You can have and do what you want, God doesnt force himself on anyone. However, if and when it doesnt work, its your fault not Gods because he never intended for you to married that person in the first place. 

Regardless of your defense of dating, I am choosing God's best. I am tired of trying to control my life and take shortcuts with God. I surrender it all to him and I will let him have his way with me. He said to stop the madness and wait on him and thats what I am going to do and that is what this thread it about. 

If ANYONE wants to date, by all means, DO IT. I judge no one. I am simple sharing my story and spreading the word God has put in my heart that it may bless someone and they too can make a change in their life if thats where they feel led. 



kayte said:


> Christian marriages can and do arise from Christian dating! One of the loveliest couples I knew began as a dating relationship and subsequently formally entered a courship..they did not kiss until the wedding ceremony...had their beautiful son at 40
> Too many Christians date successfully..and marry....to isolate dating as a spiritual obstacle
> 
> it's easy to absolve responsibilty and say dating is culprit..that's like saying money is evil..but it's not.. _it's the love of money... is the root of all evil_..and so it is with dating
> ...


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## Raspberry (Mar 1, 2009)

I do think God can bless a dating situation, because He is merciful, and understands that many of us are bound by cultural traditions and act in ignorance.  

However, I do think that that though the times we live in seem particularly taxing, we are very blessed to have so much life changing, godly teaching available on a wide variety of subjects at our fingertips.  God has given us much grace to get through these times, even in building Christ centered relationships amid moral confusion.

In the light of godly revelation I think every Christian woman should take time to examine preconceived notions about dating and marriage.  Not saying you shouldn't date at all, but examine why you are going about it in a certain way.  Is it because everyone else does and you don't know any different?  What do you think traditional dating achieves and is there a better way to reach your goal?  What is the best way to determine whether a man is marriage material?  What does God's word say about matters of the heart?  What is the best way to go about finding the one God has for you while keeping your heart from unnecessary trauma?

Outside of the obvious no-nos, there really aren't hard and fast rules with this thing, so it is most important to get in sync with what the Spirit is saying to you personally - and that starts with being willing to let go of what you've always known and expected - God is great at surprising us!


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 1, 2009)

I agree.
It is so important to consult God in every step to make sure you are doing the right thing regardless whether you call it dating or courting or nothing at all. The most important part is to make sure, especially as women we protect our hearts because we are so emotional. We want to make sure the men we allow in our lives has our best interest. Often times we get blinded by superficial things and miss God's best. We don't want to get stuck in loveless, lifeless relationships. We don't want to waste our time, energy, money, body... We just want to love and be loved truly. If you find love in dating  that's wonderful. Courting for me simply protects me from wasting energy on men that do not have long term intentions for me. Dating is a serial behavior where women are often looking and not being sought out. And we are often too disappointed that a guy we thought was nice is really a jerk. I guess I just rather wait. 





Raspberry said:


> I do think God can bless a dating situation, because He is merciful, and understands that many of us are bound by cultural traditions and act in ignorance.
> 
> However, I do think that that though the times we live in seem particularly taxing, we are very blessed to have so much life changing, godly teaching available on a wide variety of subjects at our fingertips.  God has given us much grace to get through these times, even in building Christ centered relationships amid moral confusion.
> 
> ...


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 1, 2009)

1star said:


> . I don't think it tells women to find men to court. Generally speaking, *courting does not involve physical intimacy preferably including holding hands and kissing or hu*gging. It is preferred method is in groups or with chaperones. It is a method of getting to know the person on a real level w/o lust or physical or inappropriate emotional entanglements in the way. *Courting is done with the specific goal of marriage.* Usually, one courts the person that they desire to marry. It is not a serial behavior.


 

Yes, I know these aspects already with orthodox family.  But I'm specifically asking how one courts with marriage as the intention.  Unless it's arranged by family through cousins and friends contacting parents and having them discuss your merits, how would one do it when you don't have that family setup  to avoid dudes who are looking for a good time?  Are there courting organizations and groups within people's specific religious affiliations here?  Ex., courting group like a single's group?  Pragmatically, how are you setting up your courting?  I assume it's not "lady in waiting."

BTW, dating to me didn't mean giving somebody a piece of me.  It was just going out and having fun, dinner, movie and then go home separately.  If someone is trying to court, getting past the initial contact will be difficult...

"Would you like to go out?"
"Sure, only if you know I'm interested in marrying"


That would put an end to the "courting" opportunities.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 1, 2009)

You're questions are very valid and I had the same questions. This is what you do. 

Suppose you have dumped dating, are interested in courting and waiting for your husband. 

However, you do not have the family set up to have accountability. It is then your responsibility to reach old to church members or any mature, godly individuals that are married (preferrably) to be your "accountability parents" during your courtship. Make sure they are people you can trust. If you can not think of anyone, ask your minister or leaders of the church to recommend a couple. If they do not know what that means, give them a copy of your book to read so they can understand what their role may be. 

Accountability begins at the beginning of the courtship. Once you and your potential mate through friendship believe that God may be calling you two to marry (this involve alot of  prayer and seeking God's will for your life), go to the accountability parents to "feel him out." Ask your accountability father to think of you as his daughter and he should get the rest. No father wants nothing but the best for his daughter. Your accountability parents will adopt you two as their own and prayful seek God for you on your behalf. Together you all should determine if this is the will for your life to marry each other. If all goes while, you will have peace and security that this lovee you're building will last because what God puts together no one can destroy. 

Courtship is more than just being hands off. Its about developing a relationship with someone in opposite of dating (instead of physical, emotional, spiritual, you establish spiritual, emotional, then physical once married). Its also about not establishing ANY counterfeit oneness on an emotional, spiritual, and physical level until it is time and appropriate. This is for your protection. No one wants to falsely give themselves to a man, only to find out he's not who you thought he'd be....your husband. 

Your accountability couple will facilite the courtship, give advice, and monitor the progress of you two establishing oneness together. They will make sure you are limiting your alone time together as this will increase your desire to be physical with one another. 

Not all couples wait until marriege to kiss. I am not sure I will. I like to kiss  but I havent been convicted not to. God may change my mind. I dont know. Short kisses are acceptable when courting and engaged, just be careful not to arouse temptation to jump each others bones. 



GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Yes, I know these aspects already with orthodox family. But I'm specifically asking how one courts with marriage as the intention. Unless it's arranged by family through cousins and friends contacting parents and having them discuss your merits, how would one do it when you don't have that family setup to avoid dudes who are looking for a good time? Are there courting organizations and groups within people's specific religious affiliations here? Ex., courting group like a single's group? Pragmatically, how are you setting up your courting? I assume it's not "lady in waiting."
> 
> BTW, dating to me didn't mean giving somebody a piece of me. It was just going out and having fun, dinner, movie and then go home separately. If someone is trying to court, getting past the initial contact will be difficult...
> 
> ...


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## aribell (Mar 1, 2009)

Just to add, I have seen a quite successful courting relationship happen without the overt consultation of the parents.  The families already knew one another quite well, and time was spent in community, but I'm pretty sure that my friend's now-husband didn't outright ask for permission to court her, as some courting advocates advise. (imo, that's more appropriate for younger people anyway, like pre-college).  Also, they didn't really do the "group" thing, though they were friends first.

For them, what made their relationship specifically a courtship was that they determined from the outset that the only purpose for being in a relationship was to discover whether they ought to marry one another, which meant that the time they spent together and the conversations they had were very intentional.  They also paced the physical aspects and didn't kiss until the wedding, but that was due to their own personal preference.

It would be weird to say, "Well, I'll only go on this date with you if you're interested in marrying me."  But I think it's more like, "If we decide to begin a serious, committed relationship with one another, the question governing our relationship should be whether or not we are going to get married."  I think the marriage intention should only come up when you're talking about a committed relationship--and you're not saying "I want to marry you" necessarily, but "I want to intentionally find out whether I want to marry you."
(I know that's not the official courtship "doctrine" so to speak, but I think it has to be adapted somewhat to different ages and circumstances.  I personally don't see anything wrong with a casual date as long as it is just that.)


ETA:  Yeah, I've officially decided that this is the way for me to go.  Tired of this:   And this:    And of course, this:


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## kayte (Mar 1, 2009)

> Sounds like your friends were just friends than they courted. If you had read the book, you could get a clear understanding of the differences between the PRINCIPLES of dating and courting (most people throw these words around but its the principles that count).



they dated OP! they were not sexual... is all 
I've no interest whatsoever in the book 



> _most people throw these words around _but its the principles that count).


excuse me? I disagree...and while perhaps, it's a matter of semantics..
it does not justify I'm capricious with my posts..does it?
I respect your view...can I be entitled to the same?  

three thoughts 

I maintain it is the ethic..not the practice
say...if you are an angry person...and say... a newly-dumping-dater-choosing-courtship
well....guess what's coming along with to the courtship 
don't fool yourself ..
Sin is an equal opportunity employer...
it will show up in courting as it does in dating  
humans /Christians do not magically become angelic when they court.
..if only ....



> While many have successfully dated and gotten married, this is not the case for MOST without alot of pain to get there if they marry at all (do you know how many black women NEVER MARRY? its crazy). The principles in dating do not reflect the principles of Christianity therefore "Christian dating" is actually an oxymoron.
> Its not impossible to find love and marry through dating obviously because people marry everyday that have not courted. However, do you know what their marriege is like? The problems they had while dating that they now have to deal with in a marriege. The obscene divorce rate that is going up because people are marrying people for all the wrong reasons. Wives dealing with their husbands lack of self-control or insensitivity. Husbands dealing with their wives neglect, etc...the list of problems go on and on. These problems did not start overnight, they started during their dating relationship. And whats the point of getting married if you get divorced? Defeats the purpose completely


. 

whoa nelly....
_there is no fear in perfect love_....says John
_love that is not perfect...terrorizes.. is punitive..._
AND is fear based as...wow..as well....this post {respectfully} seems 
operative out of fear anger disppointment frustration ..
_don't blame on that dating_....

imho.... in my life THAT is what I worked on....
the source of the umanageability ..not the dating  while it may have been catalyst..
but really it all comes back to *self accountablilty*
and maturity....ethics

my post validates this OP..if one cannot handle dating then one is doing
what is right by 'dumping' it ..but it's risky
to claim this as a spiritual rationale
when really it's playing three card monty
shifting the cards without rigorous honesty at what really failed

third and last thought! 

dating ... does not exclude Christian women from God's best
rather many are blessed with God's best but because as His daughters, He delights in us by Christ shedding His blood.we are reprieved daily
and _blessed anyway...._

I do wish God's best for all of us 
ultimately for me?
it is ALL about being closer to God..


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## Ramya (Mar 1, 2009)

The way I approach the courting is if a man expresses interest in me (by asking me out or telling me) I tell him that I don't date. It's pretty simple lol. If a guy is truly interested in you, he will befriend you and find ways to be near you. Eventually a friendship will naturally occur. I mean you're going to the same events, hanging with the same people ect. After you become friends, he's probably going to ask you why you don't date and really certain conversations will just come up in group discussion. What group of friends doesn't discuss relationships? lol Tell him how you feel and if he believes God is telling him that your his wife, he will again express interest. Once he does this, you go to your respective accountability couples and everyone prays and most importantly listens to God. Is a natural progression...


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## Ramya (Mar 1, 2009)

kayte said:


> they dated OP! they were not sexual... is all
> I've no interest whatsoever in the book
> 
> 
> ...



I am only addressing the underlined.

This is not an entirely true statement. There can be a spiritual rationale if the Holy Spirit is prompting one to 'ditch dating.' Personally I don't believe that dating is beneficial for anyone, Christian or not. While self accountability is indeed important, the bible constantly expresses the importance of wise counsel. 

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool _is_ right in his own eyes,    But he who heeds counsel _is_ wise.

Proverbs 19:20 Listen to counsel and receive instruction,    That you may be wise in your latter days.  

Dating is like trying on a pair of shoes, walking around the store, gaining a strong desire for the pair and realizing that you don't have enough money to purchase them. So the shoes go back on the shelf. A lot of times we get so emotionally and spiritually caught up with people that we don't hear God's voice clearly. God tells us to guard our hearts for good reason! Courting is a way to ensure that our hearts remain fixed on the most important aspect of our life--Him. It does not reflect an inability to handle dating and remain pure but a conscious choice to direct one's life in a manner that is befitting spiritually. For me there is much less temptation while courting. I learn more about the other person and I've made some of my best friends through potential courtships. It fits into my lifestyle better. No man will 'try me on' unless he is prepared to purchase.


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## aribell (Mar 1, 2009)

alabama said:


> The way I approach the courting is *if a man expresses interest in me (by asking me out or telling me) I tell him that I don't date.* It's pretty simple lol. *If a guy is truly interested in you, he will befriend you and find ways to be near you. Eventually a friendship will naturally occur. I mean you're going to the same events, hanging with the same people ect.* After you become friends, he's probably going to ask you why you don't date and really certain conversations will just come up in group discussion. What group of friends doesn't discuss relationships? lol Tell him how you feel and if he believes God is telling him that your his wife, he will again express interest. Once he does this, you go to your respective accountability couples and everyone prays and most importantly listens to God. Is a natural progression...


 
Re: the bolded, that is pretty simple and works well in certain contexts.  But depending on age and circumstance not everyone is hanging out in groups and you might meet someone that you connect with but don't necessarily run in the same circles with.  In that instance one could say "I don't date," but there would have to be some other way of getting to know one another outside of having the same friends, etc.  I only add that because some people will walk away thinking that courting can't be for them since they aren't in a stage in life where things can look like that.  But I think that you can still maintain the principle.


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## Ramya (Mar 1, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Re: the bolded, that is pretty simple and works well in certain contexts.  But depending on age and circumstance not everyone is hanging out in groups and you might meet someone that you connect with but don't necessarily run in the same circles with.  In that instance one could say "I don't date," but there would have to be some other way of getting to know one another outside of having the same friends, etc.  I only add that because some people will walk away thinking that courting can't be for them since they aren't in a stage in life where things can look like that.  But I think that you can still maintain the principle.



Even when I say that I don't date, I get invited to 'events.' of all of the guys who have expressed interest in me, i've only shared mutual friends with 1.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 1, 2009)

This is very true. For older individuals the accountability does not have to be so strict because you should be old enough and mature enough to have physical restraints on your time and body before you marry. Thank you for making this point.



nicola.kirwan said:


> Just to add, I have seen a quite successful courting relationship happen without the overt consultation of the parents. The families already knew one another quite well, and time was spent in community, but I'm pretty sure that my friend's now-husband didn't outright ask for permission to court her, as some courting advocates advise. (imo, that's more appropriate for younger people anyway, like pre-college). Also, they didn't really do the "group" thing, though they were friends first.
> 
> For them, what made their relationship specifically a courtship was that they determined from the outset that the only purpose for being in a relationship was to discover whether they ought to marry one another, which meant that the time they spent together and the conversations they had were very intentional. They also paced the physical aspects and didn't kiss until the wedding, but that was due to their own personal preference.
> 
> ...


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 1, 2009)

OK! Your thoughts are noted.



kayte said:


> they dated OP! they were not sexual... is all
> I've no interest whatsoever in the book
> 
> 
> ...


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 1, 2009)

Amen! Amen! and Amen!

ETA: To add to the having opportunities to get to know the other person, group settings are best but not mandatory if you dont have mutual friends. But it is best to do activities in group environments like the park, museum, church, family and friend gatherings, etc....No bible study at his place at 9p. That wont fly. No overnight trips to go to the beach or skiing. That wont fly either. 

Typically if you tell a man you dont date he will do one of two things: 
1. Ask why. You will explain. We'll either think you're crazy, be very intrigued, or know exactly what your talking about. If he takes to it and wants to explore, you go from there. This way there will not be any ackward, I cant date you unless you marry me. He knows where you stand from jump and he knows that if he wants to get closer to you, he better be in it for the long haul. 
2. He'll say ok and walk away. This is good because that means he's not from God and you're husband is that much closer. 




alabama said:


> I am only addressing the underlined.
> 
> This is not an entirely true statement. There can be a spiritual rationale if the Holy Spirit is prompting one to 'ditch dating.' Personally I don't believe that dating is beneficial for anyone, Christian or not. While self accountability is indeed important, the bible constantly expresses the importance of wise counsel.
> 
> ...


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## PrissyMiss (Mar 1, 2009)

PrettyfaceanB I am so glad that you posted this! I have actually been moving away from secular dating towards spirtual dating. And while I do understand the difference between courtship dating, I have to say that I disagree with the fact that dating is secular. Dating means different things to different people. But anyway that is neither here nor there.

I just wanted to let you know it works! I cannot express to you how blessed I have been since I let God direct me. ( I am actually getting a little emotional writing this) Point blank.... I don't know what I'm doing. And all advice is not good advice. I have been blessed, in this day and age, to meet a man who holds the same spirtual values as me. Were about the same age, so I'm sure you know what I'm talkng about. This is the first time since I have been "courting" that I have felt so at peace. Absolutely no worries. I just felt led to say that... I'm done.


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## Ramya (Mar 1, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Amen! Amen! and Amen!
> 
> ETA: To add to the having opportunities to get to know the other person, group settings are best but not mandatory if you dont have mutual friends. But it is best to do activities in group environments like the park, museum, church, family and friend gatherings, etc....*No bible study at his place at 9p. That wont fly. No overnight trips to go to the beach or skiing. That wont fly either. *
> 
> ...



 No it will not! And yeah public places work wonders. Show him what you're interests are and find out what his are. If he likes art, go to see an exhibit. ect. But we're not going to chill at your house and 'watch movies'


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 1, 2009)

alabama said:


> No it will not! And yeah public places work wonders. Show him what you're interests are and find out what his are. If he likes art, go to see an exhibit. ect. But we're not going to chill at your house and 'watch movies'


 
Girl negros are slick. 




qt_pie said:


> PrettyfaceanB I am so glad that you posted this! I have actually been moving away from secular dating towards spirtual dating. And while I do understand the difference between courtship dating, I have to say that I disagree with the fact that dating is secular. Dating means different things to different people. But anyway that is neither here nor there.
> 
> I just wanted to let you know it works! I cannot express to you how blessed I have been since I let God direct me. ( I am actually getting a little emotional writing this) Point blank.... I don't know what I'm doing. And all advice is not good advice. I have been blessed, in this day and age, to meet a man who holds the same spirtual values as me. Were about the same age, so I'm sure you know what I'm talkng about. This is the first time since I have been "courting" that I have felt so at peace. Absolutely no worries. I just felt led to say that... I'm done.


 

I am glad to hear that courting is working for you. I understand you completely when you saying you dont know what you're doing. I tell God that everyday. I stopped leaning to my own understanding and believing I have such will power. I dont, God knows it, and I am lost without him. 

I am currently taking a 6 month hiatus from men period. No phone conversations. No outings in singles with the opposite sex. Nothing! 
Its a very personal choice. I have been in relationships (serious and not) since I was 13. I am now 23. Thats 10 years of having some negro in my face  and neglecting God's will for my life. So I am sacrificing 6 months to dedicate solely to making Jesus Christ my foundation and God my very first love. I am excited because I look forward to discovering myself and getting to know the Lord on a very personal level. Pray that I resist all the fine men that come my way until I am ready .


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## Southernbella. (Mar 1, 2009)

alabama said:


> The way I approach the courting is if a man expresses interest in me (by asking me out or telling me) I tell him that I don't date. It's pretty simple lol. If a guy is truly interested in you, he will befriend you and find ways to be near you. Eventually a friendship will naturally occur. I mean you're going to the same events, hanging with the same people ect. After you become friends, he's probably going to ask you why you don't date and really certain conversations will just come up in group discussion. What group of friends doesn't discuss relationships? lol Tell him how you feel and if he believes God is telling him that your his wife, he will again express interest. Once he does this, you go to your respective accountability couples and everyone prays and most importantly listens to God. Is a natural progression...


 
Exactly. Only the strong survive. This is how I was able to weed out the counterfeit who came along right before my husband. Rather than step back and respect my stance, he kept trying to figure out ways to date me alone. When I invited him to a group outing, he walked in with a girl, to "test my feelings". (She was standing outside the restaurant with her friends waiting on a table, and he came in with her, then waited to see how I'd reacterplexed). 

The kicker was that he came to my birthday party and made a big show of giving me a pearl necklace. That's the kind of thing a man gives his woman. We were just friends, but it was clear to me that he was using every trick in the book to lay claim to me instead of actually taking the time to court me. I gave him back his necklace and broke off the friendship. 

Let me also add that my dh was there when all of this happened...just watching and waiting.


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## Southernbella. (Mar 1, 2009)

alabama said:


> I am only addressing the underlined.
> 
> This is not an entirely true statement. There can be a spiritual rationale if the Holy Spirit is prompting one to 'ditch dating.' Personally I don't believe that dating is beneficial for anyone, Christian or not. While self accountability is indeed important, the bible constantly expresses the importance of wise counsel.
> 
> ...


 
Ok, had to quote you again. ITA. One thing my minister once told me stuck with me for a long time. He said, "dating is basically practice for divorce".


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 2, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> You dont do the finding. Thats God's job. He already knows who he has in mind for you. .


 

Thank you for your response but I don't truly agree with this. G-d also knows who will be born but we have to have the sex to get them here. I'm not knocking those that trust this way at all. I'm talking proactive seeking of a mate. There are communities that arrange courtship and marriages. This is what I was asking about. There are some organizations and services where people interested in such sign up or are recommended in this network through religious leaders, family, friends etc. "Dates" know right off the bat that you are in a courtship status. 

I believe that religion is proactive and co-creationist...we are a part of G-d's ongoing creation and that He expects us to use our intellect as well as our faith and heart in every aspect of life. I don't live by "faith" unless there is no other option and at the end of the line. I do believe there are such cases. But IMHO, G-d imbues the individual with talent and intellect for a reason. They are to be used.

With that said, in any courtship that one is in, whether G-d indicated him/her directly or not, one should definitely measure up a potential life mate against common sense scrutiny based upon wise counsel. For example:

----------------------------
http://www.aish.com/dating/wisdom/Ten_Ways_to_Marry_the_Wrong_Person.asp 
With the divorce rate over 50 percent, too many are apparently making a serious mistake in deciding who to spend the rest of their life with. To avoid becoming a "statistic," try to internalize these 10 insights.
*#1. You pick the wrong person because you expect him/her to change after you're married.*
The classic mistake. Never marry potential. The golden rule is, if you can't be happy with the person the way he or she is now, don't get married. As a colleague of mine so wisely put it, "You actually can expect people to change after their married... for the worst!" 
So when it comes to the other person's spirituality, character, personal hygiene, communication skills, and personal habits, make sure you can live with these as they are now.
*#2. You pick the wrong person because you focus more on chemistry than on character.*
Chemistry ignites the fire, but good character keeps it burning. Beware of the "I'm in love" syndrome. "I'm in love" often means, "I'm in lust." Attraction is there, but have you carefully checked out this person's character? 
Here are four character traits to definitely check for:
Humility: Does this person believe that "doing the right thing" is more important than personal comfort?




*[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]Do I want to be more like this person? Would I like my child to turn out like him or her?[/SIZE][/FONT]*







Kindness: Does this person enjoy giving pleasure to other people? How does s/he treat people s/he doesn't have to be nice to? Does s/he do volunteer work? Give charity?
Responsibility: Can I depend on this person to do what s/he says s/he's going to do? 
Happiness: Does this person like himself? Does s/he enjoy life? Is s/he emotionally stable? 
Ask yourself: Do I want to be more like this person? Do I want to have a child with this person? Would I like my child to turn out like him or her? 
*#3. You pick the wrong person because the man doesn't understand what a woman needs most.*
Men and women have unique emotional needs, and more often than not, it is the man who just doesn't "get it." Jewish tradition places the onus on the man to understand the emotional needs of a woman and to satisfy them. 
The unique need of a woman is to be loved -- to feel that she is the most important person in her husband's life. The husband needs to give her consistent, quality attention. 
This is most apparent in Judaism's approach to intimacy. The Torah obligates the husband to meet the intimate needs of his wife. Intimacy is always on the woman's terms. Men are goal-oriented, especially when it comes this area. As a wise woman once pointed out, "Men have two speeds: on and off." Women are experience-oriented. When a man is able to switch gears and become more experience-oriented, he will discover what makes his wife very happy. When the man forgets about his own needs and focuses on giving his wife pleasure, amazing things happen. 
*#4. You choose the wrong person because you do not share a common life goals and priorities.*



There are three basic ways we connect with another person:
chemistry and compatibility
share common interests
share common life goal
Make sure you share the deeper level of connection that sharing life goals provide. After marriage, the two of you will either grow together or grow apart. To avoid growing apart, you must figure out what you're "living for," while you're single -- and then find someone who has come to the same conclusion as you. 
This is the true definition of a "soul mate." A soul mate is a goal mate -- two people who ultimately share the same understanding of life's purpose and therefore share the same priorities, values and goals.
*#5. You choose the wrong person because you get intimately involved too quickly.*
Intimacy before the commitment of marriage can be a big problem because it often precludes a fully honest exploration of important issues. Physical involvement tends to cloud one's mind. And a clouded mind is not inclined to make good decisions.
It is not necessary to take a "test drive" in order to find out if a couple is physically compatible. If you do your homework and make sure you are intellectually and emotionally compatible, you don't have to worry about it. Of all the studies done on divorce, incompatibility in the intimate arena is almost never cited as a main reason why people divorce.
*#6. You pick the wrong person because you do not have a deeper emotional connection with this person.*
To evaluate whether you have a deeper emotional connection or not, ask: "Do I respect and admire this person?" 
This does not mean, "Am I impressed by this person?" We are _impressed _by a Mercedes. We do not _respect_ someone because they own a Mercedes. You should be impressed by qualities of creativity, loyalty, determination, etc.
Also ask: "Do I trust this person?" This also means, "Is he/she emotionally stable? Do I feel I can rely on him/her?
*#7. You pick the wrong person because you choose someone with whom you don't feel emotionally safe.*
Ask yourself the following questions: Do I feel calm, peaceful and relaxed with this person? Can I fully be myself and express myself with this person? Does this person make me feel good about myself? Do you have a really close friend who does make you feel this way? Make sure the person you marry makes you feel the same way!
Are you afraid of this person in any way? You should not feel you need to monitor what you say because you are afraid of how the other person will view it. If you're afraid to express your feelings and opinions openly, there's a problem with the relationship.



*[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]Be on the look out for someone who is always trying to change you.[/SIZE][/FONT]*







Another aspect of feeling safe is that you don't feel the other person is trying to control you. Controlling behaviors are a sign of an abusive person. Be on the look out for someone who is always trying to change you. There's a big difference between "controlling" and "making suggestions." A suggestion is made for your benefit; a control statement is made for their benefit.
*#8. You pick the wrong person because you don't put everything on the table.*
Anything that bothers you about the relationship must be brought up for discussion. Bringing up the uncomfortable stuff is the only way to evaluate how well the two of you communicate, negotiate, and work together. Over the course of a lifetime, difficulties will inevitably arise. You need to know now, before making a commitment: Can you resolve your differences and find compromises that work for both of you?
Never be afraid to let the person know what bothers you. This is also a way for you to test how vulnerable you can be with this person. If you can't be vulnerable, then you can't be intimate. The two go hand in hand.
*#9. You pick the wrong person because you use the relationship to escape from personal problems and unhappiness.*



*[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]If you are unhappy and single, you'll probably be unhappy and married, too.[/SIZE][/FONT]*







*If you are unhappy and single, you'll probably be unhappy and married, too. Marriage does not fix personal, psychological and emotional problems. If anything, marriage will exacerbate them. *
*If you are not happy with yourself and your life, take responsibility to fix it now while you are single. You'll feel better, and your future spouse will thank you.*
*#10. You pick the wrong person because he/she is involved in a triangle.*
To be "triangulated" means a person is emotionally dependent on someone or something else while trying to develop another relationship. A person who hasn't separated from his or her parents is the classic example of triangulation....


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 2, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> You dont do the finding. Thats God's job. He already knows who he has in mind for you. ,.


 

The other post was so long, I couldn't get to this point.  Sorry for the length.  But another thing I'd like to mention is that my first husband was definitely someone I was destined to marry and I know it for a supernatural fact.  It didn't work out but that doesn't mean it wasn't destined.  There were 4 little beings who had to make their way into this world.  

I believe there were things G-d wished for both of us to learn from the experience.  It was a very bad marriage yet, destined by G-d.  I say this to illustrate that G-d allows both good and bad to happen to both righteous and unrighteous people.  He gives good to those who don't love Him, He allows bad things to happen to those who do.  There is no set formula for a problemless life, just the will of G-d, whether for good or for bad.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 2, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Accountability begins at the beginning of the courtship. Once you and your potential mate through friendship believe that God may be calling you two to marry (this involve alot of prayer and seeking God's will for your life), go to the accountability parents to "feel him out." Ask your accountability father to think of you as his daughter and he should get the rest. No father wants nothing but the best for his daughter. Your accountability parents will adopt you two as their own and prayful seek God for you on your behalf. Together you all should determine if this is the will for your life to marry each other. If all goes while, you will have peace and security that this lovee you're building will last because what God puts together no one can destroy.
> .


 

Yes.. I get you now.  This is what I was looking for...the pramaticism of this technique. It sounds very much like old traditional matchmaking!!! That's what I thought. You know , there are old spinsters who are still waiting for G-d to drop their husbands like the stork drops babies.  They just haven't figured it out yet.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 2, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> *Re: the bolded, that is pretty simple and works well in certain contexts. But depending on age and circumstance not everyone is hanging out in groups and you might meet someone that you connect with but don't necessarily run in the same circles with. In that instance one could say "I don't date," *but there would have to be some other way of getting to know one another outside of having the same friends, etc. I only add that because some people will walk away thinking that courting can't be for them since they aren't in a stage in life where things can look like that. But I think that you can still maintain the principle.


 

And also taking into account one's cultural heritage.  Courting in the U.S. looks quite different than courting in more traditional countries.


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## Bunny77 (Mar 2, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> But depending on age and circumstance not everyone is hanging out in groups and you might meet someone that you connect with but don't necessarily run in the same circles with.  In that instance one could say "I don't date," but there would have to be some other way of getting to know one another outside of having the same friends, etc.  I only add that because some people will walk away thinking that courting can't be for them since they aren't in a stage in life where things can look like that.  But I think that you can still maintain the principle.



This is probably where I'm at right now.

Being that I'm in my early 30s, I'm not in a position where I meet a lot of men that I could just spend time with in group settings. There's no way that I could "court" in that sense.

But, even if I "date," there are still ways that my dating relationship can be more of a courtship. So yes, I will go to dinner one-on-one with a man, but we will avoid spending time alone in each other's homes, for example.

I think that people often equate dating with sex, which is frequently a part of dating. But it doesn't have to be. If I say that I am dating multiple people, it doesn't mean that I am being intimate with all of them. I deliberately keep it as far from intimate as possible so that I am able to date/court intentionally.

I would be interested in reading the book just to see what it says. I think we all have to do what works for us in our particular age range/social settings, but we can maintain the same principles whether we call it dating or courting.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 2, 2009)

For me, I seek to trust God in all I do. That includes bringing me to my mate. Whatever means you take to go about finding a mate, its most important to pray to God for guidance and to seek the counsel of family and friends so they can help you with the blindspots we often overlook when we become smitten with someone. 

Yes God has given us common sense, he also tells us to lean not to our own understanding. Your thoughts are not his thoughts, your ways not his ways.....

There is no formula for courtship...

Courting with someone doesnt guarentee marriage...

Every courtship is different....

However there are some core principles that will not change. You build the relationship in order of spiritual, emotional, physical after marriege. You consult and acknowledge God every step of the way.  Limit where and when you two decide to spend time together. You consult others about the relationship in the beginning to allow them to help you determine making this huge next step. It also of utmost importance that you are a content, happy, emotionally healthy person before you add a mate to your life. If you're miserable before, you'll be miserable after. 

I am taking a slightly strict approach to courtship (PERSONALLY) because I have some spiritual goals want reach before my husband finds me. I am also young and may not be as "ready" to marry as others. 

As mentioned before, the courtship has to fit each persons lifestyle. I am involved in ministry and have alot of female family so going out in groups wont be an issue. But thats not to say, I will only go out in groups. It just means it will not happen often at all. I want my family to feel this guy out because they love me and want the best for me. They warned me about guys in the past and I didnt listen. This time, I'm all ears. 




GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Thank you for your response but I don't truly agree with this. *G-d also knows who will be born but we have to have the sex to get them here.* I'm not knocking those that trust this way at all. I'm talking proactive seeking of a mate. There are communities that arrange courtship and marriages. This is what I was asking about. There are some organizations and services where people interested in such sign up or are recommended in this network through religious leaders, family, friends etc. "Dates" know right off the bat that you are in a courtship status.
> 
> I believe that religion is proactive and co-creationist...we are a part of G-d's ongoing creation and that He expects us to use our intellect as well as our faith and heart in every aspect of life. I don't live by "faith" unless there is no other option and at the end of the line. I do believe there are such cases. But IMHO, G-d imbues the individual with talent and intellect for a reason. They are to be used.
> 
> *With that said, in any courtship that one is in, whether G-d indicated him/her directly or not, one should definitely measure up a potential life mate against common sense scrutiny based upon wise counsel.*


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 2, 2009)

Southernbella. said:


> Ok, had to quote you again. ITA. One thing my minister once told me stuck with me for a long time. He said, "dating is basically practice for divorce".


 
This is one of the points that sold me in this book. The dating system today says...when the going gets tough, the uncommited get going....

Traditional dating puts people into a pattern of when you arent getting along now, I am going to leave and find someone else to make me happy. Its a self-centered, self-gratifying process. 

Its also important to consider the fact that dating is less then a century old. It became popular when men started to have their own vehicles and could take girls away from the home. 
The process of finding a mate used to be a female dominated area. When a woman was of age, suitors had to go to woman's home to be observed by the father and mother...and whomever they choose...the daugther got to court with. This protected the daugthers and men were chosen based on more than looks and money. They were also chosen based on character, patience, etc. 

Out of 100 marriages, in 1960, 26 ended in divorce; in 1970, 33 ended in divorce; in 1980, 50 ended in divorce; in 1990, 48 ended in divorce.

Marriages lasted when the choice is grounded in principle and not just chemistry and superficial things. My goal is more than to just get married. I want to get married and it last forever. I am waiting for God's choice because what God puts together no man can tear apart.


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## Bunny77 (Mar 2, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Yes.. I get you now.  This is what I was looking for...the pramaticism of this technique. It sounds very much like old traditional matchmaking!!! That's what I thought. You know , there are old spinsters who are still waiting for G-d to drop their husbands like the stork drops babies.  They just haven't figured it out yet.



I am SUCH a fan of old traditional matchmaking... I really wonder why many modern Christian communities don't do this... as I've mentioned many times before, it's not coincidental that in communities where marriage is valued and where a community effort is used to help younger men and women marry, people get married.

When the community is hands off and has an "anything goes" approach, people don't get married.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 2, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> I am SUCH a fan of old traditional matchmaking... I really wonder why many modern Christian communities don't do this... as I've mentioned many times before, it's not coincidental that in communities where marriage is valued and where a community effort is used to help younger men and women marry, people get married.
> 
> *When the community is hands off and has an "anything goes" approach, people don't get married*.


 
And marriages dont survive.


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## Ramya (Mar 2, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> I am SUCH a fan of old traditional matchmaking... I really wonder why many modern Christian communities don't do this... as I've mentioned many times before, it's not coincidental that in communities where marriage is valued and where a community effort is used to help younger men and women marry, people get married.
> 
> When the community is hands off and has an "anything goes" approach, people don't get married.



I told yall my family gave me a time limit. If nothing happens before x date, they will be checking out potential suitors on my behalf.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 2, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> This is very true. *For older individuals the accountability does not have to be so strict because you should be old enough and mature enough to have physical restraints on your time and body before you marry. *Thank you for making this point.


 
That's not true hon. I know plenty of folks in their 30's-40's even 70's who are still whoring and even justifying it. It depends on your walk with Christ and the things that you've allowed Him to heal, deliver and instruct you on. Just because someone is mature in age doesn't mean that they're exempt from the lusts of the flesh. Unfortunately.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 2, 2009)

This is true. Thats why its a should. But im speaking in general terms. We dont live in a perfect world and there are no perfect Christians. 



Ms.Honey said:


> That's not true hon. I know plenty of folks in their 30's-40's even 70's who are still whoring and even justifying it. It depends on your walk with Christ and the things that you've allowed Him to heal, deliver and instruct you on. Just because someone is mature in age doesn't mean that they're exempt from the lusts of the flesh. Unfortunately.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 2, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> This is true. Thats why its a should. But im speaking in general terms. We dont live in a perfect world and there are no perfect Christians.


 
True but we should be striving to be a witness. Perfection in a non biblical sense is impossible to achieve but biblical expectation of perfection is. "Be ye perfect (perfected) as I am Perfect" says the Lord. 

We shouldn't be still drinking milk when we have been saved long enough to be on meat. Some things we may take longer to allow God to deal with us on but it shouldn't be just about EVERYTHING. He leads us and guides us into ALL truth from the beginning.

 Besides, folks get saved at different ages. We can't expect for a babe in Christ who's 45 to be virtuous as a mature Christian who's 25 is.


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## danigurl18 (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm going to get this...


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## alexstin (Mar 2, 2009)

Southernbella. said:


> Ok, had to quote you again. ITA. One thing my minister once told me stuck with me for a long time. He said, "dating is basically practice for divorce".



Yep. I truly believe that.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 3, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> I am SUCH a fan of old traditional matchmaking... I really wonder why many modern Christian communities don't do this... as I've mentioned many times before, it's not coincidental that in communities where marriage is valued and where a community effort is used to help younger men and women marry, people get married.
> 
> When the community is hands off and has an "anything goes" approach, people don't get married.


 

And when people sit back and expect G-d to drop their beloved onto their doorsteps, they don't get married either.  It's a process.


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## Northern_Belle (Mar 3, 2009)

I do believe that those who are believers in Christ should consider courtship or at least courtship like principles over traditional dating, I personally do not believe that God sends us a mate. He places people in our path when we are ready but ultimately we chose our partners. By inviting Christ into our relationships, He is able to be a guide to couples who are seeking marriage but He does not place people together.


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