# Multiple Wives?



## Aviah (Sep 18, 2008)

What if, a man with many wives comes to Christ? The bible instructs us in Corinthians to stay with the spouse (presuming they are not saved)  and let your life be an example to them to win them over (from what I understand) So does he have to keep all the wives? Likewise with a woman who is married to a man of many wives... Does he stay with the original one? Or all? I'm really curious on this, as some societies practice this and I would like to know what the impications for that marriage would be....
TIA!


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## Aviah (Sep 19, 2008)

Bump... Anybody?


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## DivaD04 (Sep 19, 2008)

Aviah said:


> What if, a man with many wives comes to Christ? The bible instructs us in Corinthians to stay with the spouse (presuming they are not saved)  and let your life be an example to them to win them over (from what I understand) So does he have to keep all the wives? Likewise with a woman who is married to a man of many wives... Does he stay with the original one? Or all? I'm really curious on this, as some societies practice this and I would like to know what the implications for that marriage would be....
> TIA!



deleted.....you may want to read this;http://www.ukapologetics.net/concubine.html ...it does puzzle me a bit. I'm sure there are many more sites on this subject. 

Concubine:
in the Bible denotes a female conjugally united to a man, but in a relation inferior to that of a wife. Among the early Jews, from various causes, the difference between a wife and a concubine was less marked than it would be amongst us. The concubine was a wife of secondary rank. There are various laws recorded providing for their protection ( Exd 21:7; Deu 21:10-14), and setting limits to the relation they sustained to the household to which they belonged ( Gen 21:14; 25:6). They had no authority in the family, nor could they share in the household government. 

  The immediate cause of concubinage might be gathered from the conjugal histories of Abraham and Jacob ( Gen 16; 30). But in process of time the custom of concubinage degenerated, and laws were made to restrain and regulate it ( Exd 21:7-9). 

  Christianity has restored the sacred institution of marriage to its original character, and concubinage is ranked with the sins of fornication and adultery ( Mat 19:5-9; 1Cr 7:2).


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## Aviah (Sep 19, 2008)

I read that article, and it doesn't seem to wash well for obvious reasons. So why is it that men are allowed to (according to the article) and women are not if "in Christ there is neither male nor female"


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## Farida (Sep 19, 2008)

Aviah said:


> What if, a man with many wives comes to Christ? The bible instructs us in Corinthians to stay with the spouse (presuming they are not saved)  and let your life be an example to them to win them over (from what I understand) So does he have to keep all the wives? Likewise with a woman who is married to a man of many wives... Does he stay with the original one? Or all? I'm really curious on this, as some societies practice this and I would like to know what the impications for that marriage would be....
> TIA!



In several cases/cultures where marriages are plural, the husband is the source of income for the women and children. If he leaves them, they are destitute. I really don't know what the right answer is.


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## SugarBaby (Sep 19, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> deleted.....you may want to read this;http://www.ukapologetics.net/concubine.html ...it does puzzle me a bit. I'm sure there are many more sites on this subject.
> 
> Concubine:
> in the Bible denotes a female conjugally united to a man, but in a relation inferior to that of a wife. Among the early Jews, from various causes, the difference between a wife and a concubine was less marked than it would be amongst us. The concubine was a wife of secondary rank. There are various laws recorded providing for their protection ( Exd 21:7; Deu 21:10-14), and setting limits to the relation they sustained to the household to which they belonged ( Gen 21:14; 25:6). They had no authority in the family, nor could they share in the household government.
> ...



Even the author made a distinction between wife and conubine. I don't think the two can be compared. 

The difficulty is that the bible does not specifically rule out plural marriage. Anything the bible does not address becomes one man's opinion vs another.


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## DivaD04 (Sep 20, 2008)

SugarBaby said:


> Even the author made a distinction between wife and conubine. I don't think the two can be compared.
> 
> The difficulty is that the bible does not specifically rule out plural marriage. Anything the bible does not address becomes one man's opinion vs another.



yes it does have plural wives....what bible are you picking up chica?  just curious to know

here's an example; read the whole thing if you like to understand this passage tho of why God said what he said...
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]*2 Samuel 12:1-14*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] *1* The Lord sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, "There were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. *2* The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle,  *3* but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him. [/FONT]*4* "Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him." *5* David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, "As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this deserves to die!  *6* He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity."  *7* Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. *8* I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. *9* Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. *10* Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.' *11 "This is what the Lord says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. * *12* You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.'"  *13* Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan replied, "The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. *14* But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die." 

I know. i was giving two references of multiple wives and concubines as well. concubines may not have the same privileges as a wife, but they are still well taken care of the same.


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## DivaD04 (Sep 20, 2008)

Man last night I had to call my father in law up about this one! When you start talking about the bible...it get's him going, he loves these types of conversations...It was hard to hear since he was on route and his cell phone was going in and out...I wish I can get you to talk to him, he'll break it all the way down...trust me you and the bible will be open for business... 
but still reaserching and reading;
 ....vivmaiko...you're on it girl...

but to add to it...since we can't call or email God and ask...we can only research and speculate why God allowed many things to happen w or w/o < consequence for any given reason...although, whether a sin or not Aviah, God sent his son to the cross, so any sin like...multiple wives....OR husbands are forgiven because of Jesus. 

here's what I got online i hth:
(1) Why did God allow polygamy in the Old Testament? The Bible does not specifically say why God allowed polygamy. The best anyone can do is “informed” speculation. There are a few key factors to consider. First, there has always been more women in the world than men. Current statistics show that approximately 50.5% of the world population are women, with men being 49.5%. Assuming the same percentages in ancient times, and multiplied by millions of people, there would be tens of thousands more women than men. Second, warfare in ancient times was especially brutal, with an incredibly high rate of fatalities. This would have resulted in an even greater percentage of women to men. Third, due to the patriarchal societies, it was nearly impossible for an unmarried woman to provide for herself. Women were often uneducated and untrained. Women relied on their fathers, brothers, and husbands for provision and protection. Unmarried women were often subjected to prostitution and slavery. Fourth, the significant difference between the number of women and men would have left many, many women in an undesirable (to say the least) situation.

 So, it seems that God allowed polygamy to protect and provide for the women who could not find a husband otherwise. A man would take multiple wives and serve as the provider and protector of all of them. While definitely not ideal, living in a polygamist household was far better than the alternatives: prostitution, slavery, starvation, etc. In addition to the protection / provision factor, polygamy enabled a much faster expansion of humanity, fulfilling God’s command to “be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth” (Genesis 9:7). Men are capable of impregnating multiple women in the same time period…causing humanity to grow much faster than if each man was only able to produce one child each year.

 (2) How does God view polygamy today? Even while allowing polygamy, the Bible presents monogamy as the plan which conforms most closely to God’s ideal for marriage. The Bible says that God’s original intention was for one man to be married to only one woman, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife (not wives); and they shall become one flesh (not multiple fleshes)” (Genesis 2:24). While Genesis 2:24 is describing what marriage is, rather than how many people are involved, the consistent use of the singular should be noted. In Deuteronomy 17:14-20, God says that the kings were not supposed to multiply wives (or horses or gold). While this cannot be interpreted as a command that the kings must be monogamous, it can be understood as declaring the having multiple wives causes problems. This can be clearly seen in the life of Solomon (1 Kings 11:3-4).

 In the New Testament, 1 Timothy 3:2, 12 and Titus 1:6 give “the husband of one wife” in a list of qualifications for spiritual leadership. There is some debate as to what specifically this qualification means. Please read - http://www.gotquestions.org/husband-one-wife.html. The phrase could literally be translated “a one-woman man.” Whether or not this phrase is referring exclusively to polygamy, in no sense can a polygamist be considered a “one-woman man.” While these qualifications are specifically for positions of spiritual leadership, they should apply equally to all Christians. Should not all Christians be “above reproach ... temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money” (1 Timothy 3:2-4)? If we are called to be holy (1 Peter 1:16), and if these standards are holy for elders and deacons, then they are holy for all.

 Ephesians 5:22-33, speaking of the relationship between husbands and wives, when referring to a husband (singular) always also refers to a wife (singular). “…for the husband is the head of the wife (singular) … He who loves his wife (singular) loves himself. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife (singular), and the two will become one flesh … each one of you also must love his wife (singular) as he loves himself, and the wife (singular) must respect her husband (singular).” While a somewhat parallel passage, Colossians 3:18-19, refers to husbands and wives in the plural, it is clear that Paul is addressing all the husbands and wives among the Colossian believers, not stating that a husband might have multiple wives. In contrast, Ephesians 5:22-33 is specifically describing the marital relationship. If polygamy is allowable, the entire illustration of Christ’s relationship with His body (the church), and the husband-wife relationship, falls apart.

 (3) Why did it change? It is not as much God disallowing something He previously allowed as it is God restoring marriage to His original intent. Even going back to Adam and Eve (not Eves), polygamy was not God’s original intent. God seems to have allowed polygamy to solve a problem, but it was God’s desire for the problem never to have occurred. In most modern societies, there is absolutely no need for polygamy. In most cultures today, women are able to provide for and protect themselves – removing the only “positive” aspect of polygamy. Further, most modern nations outlaw polygamy. According to Romans 13:1-7, we are to obey the laws that the government establishes. The only instance in which disobeying the law is permitted by Scripture is if the law contradicts God’s commands (Acts 5:29). Since God only allows for polygamy, and does not command it, a law prohibiting polygamy should be upheld.

 Are there some instances in which the allowance for polygamy would still apply today? Perhaps…but it is unfathomable that there would be no other possible solution. Due to the “one flesh” aspect of marriage, the need for oneness and harmony in marriage, and the lack of any real need for polygamy, it is our firm belief that polygamy does not honor God and is not His design for marriage.

book:
Bible Answers for Almost All Your Questions 
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?event=AFF&p=1011693&item_no=63241


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## SugarBaby (Sep 20, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> yes it does have plural wives....what bible are you picking up chica?  just curious to know
> 
> here's an example; read the whole thing if you like to understand this passage tho of why God said what he said...
> [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]*2 Samuel 12:1-14*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] *1* The Lord sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, "There were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. *2* The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle,  *3* but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him. [/FONT]*4* "Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him." *5* David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, "As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this deserves to die!  *6* He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity."  *7* Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. *8* I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. *9* Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. *10* Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.' *11 "This is what the Lord says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. * *12* You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.'"  *13* Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan replied, "The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. *14* But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die."
> ...



Perhaps you need to break it down for me, What are you trying to show? I do agree that plural wives existed.


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## SugarBaby (Sep 20, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> Man last night I had to call my father in law up about this one! When you start talking about the bible...it get's him going, he loves these types of conversations...It was hard to hear since he was on route and his cell phone was going in and out...I wish I can get you to talk to him, he'll break it all the way down...trust me you and the bible will be open for business...
> but still reaserching and reading;
> ....vivmaiko...you're on it girl...
> 
> ...



Thanks for the references, I will do some futher research and study. Thanks!


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## SugarBaby (Sep 20, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> ...what bible are you picking up chica?  just curious to know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DivaD04 (Sep 20, 2008)

SugarBaby said:


> DivaD04 said:
> 
> 
> > ...what bible are you picking up chica?  just curious to know
> ...


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## DivaD04 (Sep 20, 2008)

SugarBaby said:


> Perhaps you need to break it down for me, What are you trying to show?* I do agree that plural wives existed.*




i thought otherwise...that's all.


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## SugarBaby (Sep 20, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> SugarBaby said:
> 
> 
> > i'm sorry, not trying to come off like that...i was just asking since you said the bible does say wives...plural.
> ...


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## DivaD04 (Sep 20, 2008)

ur welcome


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## Aviah (Sep 20, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> Man last night I had to call my father in law up about this one! When you start talking about the bible...it get's him going, he loves these types of conversations...It was hard to hear since he was on route and his cell phone was going in and out...I wish I can get you to talk to him, he'll break it all the way down...trust me you and the bible will be open for business...
> but still reaserching and reading;
> ....vivmaiko...you're on it girl...
> 
> ...


 


SugarBaby said:


> Even the author made a distinction between wife and conubine. I don't think the two can be compared.
> 
> The difficulty is that the bible does not specifically rule out plural marriage. Anything the bible does not address becomes one man's opinion vs another.


 
I've noticed this, and previously thought it was just a fact of life back then and was never allowed. Then as I actually got into reading the old testament, it shocked me how David was not punished for polygamy. It only became an issue with Bathsheba, because of the way it was done...


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## Aviah (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks Diva, but I have come across that article and I found that maybe the explanation limits God, in the sense that he made it so that there were more women than men, and then allowed polygamy to "fix" it. I know this probably isn't the case, but I guess the feminist in me wants to hear it was wrong... somewhere...


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## Aviah (Sep 20, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> Man last night I had to call my father in law up about this one! When you start talking about the bible...it get's him going, he loves these types of conversations...It was hard to hear since he was on route and his cell phone was going in and out...I wish I can get you to talk to him, he'll break it all the way down...trust me you and the bible will be open for business...
> but still reaserching and reading;
> ....vivmaiko...you're on it girl...
> 
> ...


 

One last thing, I know they would be forgiven, but I'm just wondering about the practical implications of having more than one wife when coming to Christ. Even if it was allowed in the old testament, but thanks for your responses!


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## DivaD04 (Sep 20, 2008)

Aviah said:


> One last thing, I know they would be forgiven, but I'm just wondering about the practical implications of having more than one wife when coming to Christ. Even if it was allowed in the old testament, but thanks for your responses!
> 
> 
> I've noticed this, and previously thought it was just a fact of life back then and was never allowed. Then as I actually got into reading the old testament, it shocked me how David was not punished for polygamy. It only became an issue with Bathsheba, because of the way it was done...




understood 

I don't think it was common for a woman to have many husbands but because it was widely practiced for men to have wives I think God may have allowed polygamy for many reasons due to living conditions and filling of the earth. I think back then, men practiced equal love between his wives unlike today. but Girllll, only God knows this answer!  interestingly enough it does make one want to do some research...girl let us know what cha find


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## SugarBaby (Sep 21, 2008)

Aviah said:


> I've noticed this, and previously thought it was just a fact of life back then and was never allowed. Then as I actually got into reading the old testament, it shocked me how David was not punished for polygamy. It only became an issue with Bathsheba, because of the way it was done...



There are many times it is mentioned that wives were apart of biblical life. I like you have noticed that David was not punished for polygamy, but was punished for his issues with Bathsheba.   

I read the other inferences of the singularity of one wife used in scriptures given by the other poster. 

My problem is that when Jesus doesn't want you to do something he  specifically will in the scripture say "Don't". In regards to plural marriage, there really are not specific words telling us "Don't". ..So what does this mean in the end....I don't know.


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## Aviah (Sep 22, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> understood
> 
> I don't think it was common for a woman to have many husbands but because it was widely practiced for men to have wives I think God may have allowed polygamy for many reasons due to living conditions and filling of the earth. I think back then, men practiced equal love between his wives unlike today. but Girllll, only God knows this answer!  interestingly enough it does make one want to do some research...girl let us know what cha find



Solomon loved all 700 wives equally? As well as David and his wives? Really hard to imagine, I'm not sure about that, not to discredit you...




SugarBaby said:


> There are many times it is mentioned that wives were apart of biblical life. I like you have noticed that David was not punished for polygamy, but was punished for his issues with Bathsheba.
> 
> I read the other inferences of the singularity of one wife used in scriptures given by the other poster.
> 
> My problem is that when Jesus doesn't want you to do something he  specifically will in the scripture say "Don't". In regards to plural marriage, there really are not specific words telling us "Don't". ..So what does this mean in the end....I don't know.



The search goes on! lol...


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## momi (Sep 22, 2008)

The bible is very clear on the purpose of marriage.  
It is to be a representation of Christ and the church (the ultimate marriage).

Marriage is about two becoming one and this is a very clear theme throughout the bible. How can a man become one with more than "one" wife???


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## SugarBaby (Sep 22, 2008)

momi said:


> The bible is very clear on the purpose of marriage.
> It is to be a representation of Christ and the church (the ultimate marriage).
> 
> *Marriage is about two becoming one and this is a very clear theme throughout the bible. How can a man become one with more than "one" wife???*





If you believe a man can love his wives equally, then it can be done. The oneness is created by the woman and man seperately as their own unit. 

Not agreeing or disagreeing w/ the concept, I find the topic very interesting.


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## discobiscuits (Sep 22, 2008)

Will some one please answer me why it was ok with God that Solomon was a polygamist and had concubines and wive*S* and that God specifically said not to marry women from a specific tribe/group because they would turn his heart from God and Solomon disobeyed and married them anyway and .... well you know the rest.


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## DivaD04 (Sep 22, 2008)

Aviah said:


> Solomon loved all 700 wives equally? As well as David and his wives? Really hard to imagine, I'm not sure about that, not to discredit you...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i'm not worried about being discredited..i was stating a mere assumption, maybe even a justification as to why wives. since my opinion is  wrong..no problem tho you want facts, soooo as of 1 Kings 11:1-13, briefly, God gave him specific instructions on not to intermarry women from A-Z nations b/c these women will lead him to worship other gods, "Solomon" insisted his "love" and did anyway, the women led his heart to worship their gods. Solomon did all kinds of detestable stuff, like building shrines.....In the end, God took his kingdom...not while Solomon was alive but from his son who would inherit after Solomon's death.




h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> Will some one please answer me why it was ok with God that Solomon was a polygamist and had concubines and wive*S* and that God specifically said not to marry women from a specific tribe/group because they would turn his heart from God and Solomon disobeyed and married them anyway and .... well you know the rest.


read 1Kings 9:6-9 11:1-2;9-13


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## DivaD04 (Sep 22, 2008)

deleted...........


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## momi (Sep 22, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> Will some one please answer me why it was ok with God that Solomon was a polygamist and had concubines and wive*S* and that God specifically said not to marry women from a specific tribe/group because they would turn his heart from God and Solomon disobeyed and married them anyway and .... well you know the rest.


 
It was not okay with God that Solomon had so many wives. (Deuteronomy 17:17)  In fact, it was the strange women (wives) that turned his heart away from The Lord. (1 Kings 11)


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## discobiscuits (Sep 22, 2008)

momi said:


> It was not okay with God that Solomon had so many wives. (Deuteronomy 17:17)  In fact,* it was the strange women (wives) that turned his heart away from The Lord.* (1 Kings 11)



I know that (the bold) but evidently it was ok w/ God since His only restriction was not marrying the "strange" ones. The rest were ok.


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## momi (Sep 22, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> I know that (the bold) but evidently it was ok w/ God since His only restriction was not marrying the "strange" ones. The rest were ok.


 
Actually Deut 17:17 speaks against having multiple wives.


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## Aviah (Sep 23, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> i'm not worried about being discredited..i was stating a mere assumption, maybe even a justification as to why wives. *since my opinion is  wrong*..no problem tho you want facts, soooo as of 1 Kings 11:1-13, briefly, God gave him specific instructions on not to intermarry women from A-Z nations b/c these women will lead him to worship other gods, "Solomon" insisted his "love" and did anyway, the women led his heart to worship their gods. Solomon did all kinds of detestable stuff, like building shrines.....In the end, God took his kingdom...not while Solomon was alive but from his son who would inherit after Solomon's death.
> 
> 
> 
> read 1Kings 9:6-9 11:1-2;9-13



I'm not saying you're wrong. It's an open discussion sis. I just want to know how he loved all of them equally, or if its really possible...


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## Aviah (Sep 23, 2008)

momi said:


> It was not okay with God that Solomon had so many wives. (Deuteronomy 17:17)  In fact, it was the strange women (wives) that turned his heart away from The Lord. (1 Kings 11)



Wow, I've never seen that before! Wonder why God took the Kingdom from his sone, rather than Solomon himself... Another thread entirely that would be...


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## DivaD04 (Sep 23, 2008)

momi said:


> Actually Deut 17:17 speaks against having multiple wives.



girl, don't get me to lying...after reading Kings...King S was in a tangled mess


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## Aviah (Sep 23, 2008)

momi said:


> Actually Deut 17:17 speaks against having multiple wives.



I'm not sure what to take here, he wasn't allowed to have "foreign" wives, because they would lead his heart astray, but he according to the law wasn't allowed to have many wives anyway, because he was a king (Deut 17:17)?
erplexed


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## SugarBaby (Sep 23, 2008)

I just had a thought, not advocating for/against, just thinking out loud....

Jesus always tells us when he does not want us to do or have something in our lives, his voice is loud and clear, ....

On this subject, his voice does not seem loud and clear,...Could this mean that he does not have a problem with it and it "may" be some of our own hangups that may not allow the concept of multiple wives being acceptable?

Just thinking out loud....


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## Aviah (Sep 23, 2008)

SugarBaby said:


> I just had a thought, not advocating for/against, just thinking out loud....
> 
> Jesus always tells us when he does not want us to do or have something in our lives, his voice is loud and clear, ....
> 
> ...



Interesting... (thinks: Why wasn't i born a man?) lol


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## DivaD04 (Sep 24, 2008)

Aviah said:


> Interesting... (thinks: Why wasn't i born a man?) lol



as much time and effort it takes to take care of biz....i think i'm glad being a woman at least all i have to do is cook, clean, chastise:sandm:, and look cute for dh.


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## Aviah (Sep 24, 2008)

So I guess the Mormons and polygamist sects in the Midwest were on to something....  
 look:       


If its true... I still don't get WHY...


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## discobiscuits (Sep 28, 2008)

momi said:


> Actually Deut 17:17 speaks against having multiple wives.


Thanks but that still does not answer my post.


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## discobiscuits (Sep 28, 2008)

DivaD04 said:


> *
> read 1Kings 9:6-9 11:1-2;9-13*



*I noticed that you quoted my post in your reply so I am interpreting that to mean that the scripture references you posted below my quote are to answer my post. Those scriptures do not address my post. 

My post was asking anyone to address Solomon, who had 700 wives, being an alleged polygamist and yet be blessed by God. 

Solomon was never instructed by God not to have multiple wives. God instructed Solomon to keep his heart upright and to walk before Him as his father David did and if he did so his throne would be established over Israel forever (I Kings 9:4-5).  If Solomon or his sons turned from God to serve other gods (I Kings 9:6-7) then He would cut Israel off. Solomon was good until I Kings 11. He loved many foreign (strange) women from the nations that God told the children of Israel NOT to marry (Deuteronomy 7:3,4).  Solomon disobeyed that order, married the women and when he was old, they turned his heart from God and he served and worshiped other gods and God exacted His punishment for Solomon's disobedience. 

-----------------------------------------
However, my post was slightly OT as the OP wanted to know what happens when someone who has or has had multiple spouses comes to Christ, which spouse do they keep or stay with? The OP mentioned other cultures, and she posed a good question for thought. If it is accepted in your society to have more than one wife, and you accept Christ, which wife do you keep since Christians believe in one husband, one wife. 

One husband, one wife is what led me to ask my question. God would have established Solomon's throne forever had Solomon worshiped only God. There was nothing in God's promise that discussed multiple marriages, only forbidding Solomon from intermarrying with women from the forbidden tribes or groups.

David had multiple wives (2 Samuel 5:13, I Chronicles 3:1-9) and he is known as being a man after God's heart. God loved David and he Him. David's throne would have been established through Solomon had Solomon obeyed. God still had to get Jesus in the earth so He gave one tribe of Israel to Solomon's son for David's sake (I Kings 11:13). If God only allows one husband and one wife, He would not have blessed either of them as they both had multiple wives. The bible is clear that David sinned when he murdered Uriah so that he could have Bathsheba. 

Christians use Genesis and the no adultery commandment to support our belief and position that polygamy is a sin. But I have not come across one verse with specific instructions from God (specifically God, not the apostolic writings in the NT) to only have one wife.

Deuteronomy 21:15 teaches how to inherit the first born son of two wives, one wife who is loved the other is not loved. This scripture does not condemn multiple wives. Deuteronomy 17:17 teaches that the King of the people should not have many*  wives; why? because they will turn his heart to be led astray - Solomon. Didn't say anything about the people.  
*apparently there is a difference between many wives (meaning a lot) and multiple wives (meaning more than one). David had eight wives = multiple (not sure if simultaneously or consecutively) and Solomon 700 = many. 

Jesus taught against divorce in Matthew, but Jesus did not say it was wrong to have more than one wife. Jesus taught that when one marries, the two flesh become one, but not only one man marry only one wife which implies a man can become one flesh with more than one woman. Jesus also said that He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it and the OT law allowed for multiple wives. 

In Genesis, God created man and woman. Now, there is always the question who "knew" whom to populate the earth. If you take the position of one man Adam and one woman Eve, then one must postulate that they "knew" each other and their children in order to populate the earth. However, if you know that the original text Adam is not just a name for an individual man, but the name of the gender man and that Eve is not just the name of an individual woman but is the name of the gender female, then one can postulate that God created the gender male and the gender female and several individuals in each gender to populate the earth. In either case, Adam and Eve (individual or gender) were never "married" as we know it today. Meaning they did not meet, fellowship (date) get engaged and then married. The were created, and as there was no sin in the earth (yet), they knew what their role was and fulfilled it. However, Genesis does not specify one husband one wife.

Do NOT take what I've posted to be my belief or my opinion on God's will. I BELIEVE that there should only be one husband, one wife and that just because I have found no specific word from God or Jesus to the contrary that does not mean that it is not God's will. 

This thread is a good example that goes back to that thread on believing every word in the bible. Wile I trust God that everything in the bible as we know it contains everything believers need to live holy, I also know that it is quite possible that things could have been omitted in an attempt to benefit those in power politically and religiously at the time the bible was translated for the people to read. But I already said some of that in the other thread. 

As usual, please correct any errors I may have. Thanks.  *


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## Aviah (Sep 28, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> *I noticed that you quoted my post in your reply so I am interpreting that to mean that the scripture references you posted below my quote are to answer my post. Those scriptures do not address my post.
> 
> My post was asking anyone to address Solomon, who had 700 wives, being an alleged polygamist and yet be blessed by God.
> 
> ...



I completely understand and agree with a lot that is posted here,. Especially about the points that David had an excessive amount of wives and was considered upright before God. What doesn't make sense is where it says in Deuteronomy that the King of the people must not have many wives... Didn't David have more wives after that? Even if he didn't, where is the cut off point before it becomes many? And if all of these wives were form the Israelite nation, how would they have turned his heart astray?

But again, very good points...


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## discobiscuits (Sep 28, 2008)

Aviah said:


> I completely understand and agree with a lot that is posted here,. Especially about the points that David had an excessive amount of wives and was considered upright before God. *What doesn't make sense is where it says in Deuteronomy that the King of the people must not have many wives... Didn't David have more wives after that? Even if he didn't, where is the cut off point before it becomes many? *And if all of these wives were form the Israelite nation, how would they have turned his heart astray?
> 
> But again, very good points...


That's why I contrasted him with his son Solomon. David had 8 which may fall in the category of multiple but not many and Solomon had 700 which in anyone's definition can be considered many as well as multiple.

Some translations of the Deuteronomy passage read "do not multiply". Multiply and many are interchangeable between the various translations. If  one wants to analyze words, the king was not to multiply which could be interpreted 2 wives into 4 wives into 16 wives implying instead that the king could add not multiply. In that same passage, the King was told not to accumulate large amounts of silver and gold. It appears again, that the instruction is not to acquire large amounts of things including wives. David had fewer wives than Solomon. David's heart stayed true to God, Solomon's did not and it was because he had many wives and they were from the forbidden groups. 

Many is a quantity word much like the words couple, few, several. It indicates an undefined amount of some thing but we understand that many would be more than few. Example: I have many bottles of conditioner, I will give a few away. Example: I have several combs but I only use a couple of them. But one could have multiple bottles of conditioner and multiple combs and yet it is unknown if the amount is many or few, just more than one or two.

Multiple is a little more generic. It seems to indicate a variety or an amount of something indicating more than one item without implying a large amount. Example: There are multiple types of apples we can choose from in the store. Once we choose the types, we can then have as many or as few of each type or one type that we want.That amount can range from one apple to as many apples we can afford or eat or that are available to purchase. Apples are individual items that most people get more than one of but not many. If you contrast that with a bunch of grapes. There are different types of grapes and a grape is an individual item but they come in bunches. Each bunch one takes increases the amount exponentially thereby multiplying how much you have. Both examples can be multiple and that multiple can be increased. Apples could refer to more than one wife each taken individually whereas grapes could refer to a large amount of many wives.

God told the Israelites which types of "apples" they could choose from to marry and which ones to leave alone. God said that the king could not marry certain types of "apples" and not to have many "apples". I did not see where the king could only have one "apple".

The English majors and writers on this forum could do a better job than I in trying to show the distinction. But I hope that made a little sense.


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## discobiscuits (Sep 28, 2008)

Aviah said:


> And if all of these *wives were form the Israelite nation*, how would they have turned his heart astray?



The ones that turned Solomon's heart away and the ones that God instructed the Israelites not to marry were those from Deuteronomy 7:1. Those were the people in the promised land who they were to overthrow and destroy. They were not Israelites. One of the forbidden nations listed were Hittites and Solomon took Hittite wives. Deuteronomy 7:1 and I Kings 11:1 list some of the forbidden nations.

God's instruction not to marry them came with the warning that they would turn their hearts because those nations worshiped other gods and idols which was also forbidden for the Israelites to do.


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## discobiscuits (Sep 28, 2008)

Here is why I believe why one man is to have only one wife:

In my 1st post I was showing where there are examples of men with more than one wife. I also explained that the names Adam and Eve could be names of individual people as well as the name of a collective gender. However, the bible is clear that through ONE man's disobedience, sin entered the world (Adam the individual person not the gender) and through ONE man's obedience we are saved (Jesus). If one man sinned, then one man was in the garden and he had one wife named Eve who took the fruit (fruit not apple) and he was with her when she did it. 

Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall *a man* (singular) leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his *wife* (singular not plural): and they shall be one flesh.

Matthew 19:4-8 (King James Version)
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, *that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,* 5And said, *For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh*? 6Wherefore *they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.* 7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8He saith unto them, Moses *because of the hardness of your hearts* suffered (allowed) you to put away your wives: but *from the beginning it was not so*.

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving (except) for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Hebrews 13:4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. 

Now, apparantly, God allowed the people to choose certain things and He allowed it. Perhaps He did allow multiple wives. I wish I could say that it was pre-flood but David and Solomon came after the flood as did the commandments which God gave to satisfy the people - they asked for it. They asked for rulers. They asked for and got a lot of things which actually placed them in bondage. Paul wrote that it is becasue of the Law that we know what sin is, without it we would not and yet we can do by nature nothing but sin. That is why we need the Holy Spirit and that Paul taught that we can do all things through Jesus who strengthens us. 

I believe, that when Jesus came to fulfill the law, and he taught on divorce, if you read the rules of divorce and marrying a divorced woman in the OT, you see in the NT that Jesus said divorce was allowed (by man - Moses, not God) b/c the people asked for it out of the hardness of their hearts and got it but that is not what God designed in the beginning. Jesus said that what God designed was leave and cleave, two individuals become one flesh and stay one, they are not to be separated just because the law allowed it did not mean that was what God wanted. 

In the qualifications to be a bishop, he must be a man of one wife (I Timothy 3:2). An elder must be a man of one wife (Titus 1:6). 

I also want to clarify the following:
I said in my 1st post that what Jesus did not say could or may be interpreted or construed to mean that one man can become one flesh with more than one woman. That is in fact how some interpret and construe it but that is not correct and it is clear that Jesus did not mean that.

I think that multiple wives applies only to the office of the King of Israel. Job only had one wife. He was not a king. Noah only had one wife. He was not a king. 

There are so-called Christian groups and individuals who use the scriptures that I referenced in my 1st post to support their desire to have many wives. While I see the human logic in that, I do not concur that it is scriptural or spiritually or morally correct. When Jesus came He made it clear that the Law was incomplete and failed and could not save but He came to complete it and that He saves. Jesus himself only has one bride/wife and that is the church (made up of many individual believing souls) and Jesus is the King.


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