# Is it against the bible to leave an abusive marraige?



## Butterfly08 (Nov 9, 2009)

I was just reading Stormie O'Martian's book Power of a Praying Wife and she suggests that an abused wife should leave the house and continue praying for her husband from a safe place while he receives counseling. 

But what about the men who are absolutely unrepentant, won't admit what they're doing is wrong, and won't seek counseling? I know of the verses that say God hates divorce, and that a woman commits adultery if she divorces her husband and remarries while her ex is still alive. What are your thoughts on this?

It's a hard pill for me to swallow to believe that God condones abuse, and would condemn a battered woman from leaving a physically and emotionally violent situation.


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 9, 2009)

Butterfly08 said:


> I was just reading Stormie O'Martian's book Power of a Praying Wife and she suggests that an abused wife should leave the house and continue praying for her husband from a safe place while he receives counseling.
> 
> But what about the men who are absolutely unrepentant, won't admit what they're doing is wrong, and won't seek counseling? I know of the verses that say God hates divorce, and that a woman commits adultery if she divorces her husband and remarries while her ex is still alive. What are your thoughts on this?
> 
> It's a hard pill for me to swallow to believe that God condones abuse, and would condemn a battered woman from leaving a physically and emotionally violent situation.


ITA...she should leave and pray for him.  I have seen God do miracles in the lives of so many people in these situations.  If the man or woman (woman can be abusive as well) chooses not to repent...it's God's job to handle them...you are to continue to pray and stay focused on the plans that God has for your life.

In no way does the Lord condone abuse...of any kind.  We have to make wise decisions based on what the Lord desires, not what we desire.  When we gave our lives to the Lord...we made the choice to live for Him, right?  We must listen to that still, small voice that speaks to our hearts...He will always lead you on the right path.  A person shouldn't worry about their spouse and what happens...allow God to handle him/her.  We must keep our eyes upon Him in whom we have to do!

I hope I helped in some way.

Blessings to you, always!


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## daydreem2876 (Nov 10, 2009)

im my opinion, it is not of God to be an abusive husband. anything that follows after that is not of God. therefore, the relationship is not of God.


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## goldielocs (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> ITA...she should leave and pray for him. I have seen God do miracles in the lives of so many people in these situations. If the man or woman (woman can be abusive as well) chooses not to repent...it's God's job to handle them...you are to continue to pray and stay focused on the plans that God has for your life.
> 
> In no way does the Lord condone abuse...of any kind. We have to make wise decisions based on what the Lord desires, not what we desire. When we gave our lives to the Lord...we made the choice to live for Him, right? We must listen to that still, small voice that speaks to our hearts...He will always lead you on the right path. A person shouldn't worry about their spouse and what happens...allow God to handle him/her. We must keep our eyes upon Him in whom we have to do!
> 
> ...


 
I could not have said it better.


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## Mamita (Nov 10, 2009)

saying the rlp is not of God doesnt mean the vow doesnt stand in front of Him!!! It stands completely. we cant go around vowing even not in church thinking it doesnt count, God invented marriage, we're abusing it to our own advantage

I have the testimony of a woman whos husband left her, she was a very strong woman in her faith, he left got married elsewhere, but that was still her husband, she got with no other man
she prayed and prayed and kept focused NEVER GOT WITH ANOTHER MAN in 12 YEARS !
the man came back to her, she took him back even though he was broke and sick
that s her husband, she kept praying now he's making money and the doctors see no trace of his smoking for 20 years NOT ONE TRACE he's repenting now

Dont think for one second that God cannot change someone if you do right by Him and his Commandments and teachings

one of them? no divorce


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## Mamita (Nov 10, 2009)

if Nice and wavy says leave without divorcing i agree totally too


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## CoilyFields (Nov 10, 2009)

This is very interesting as I assume that physical abuse of women was more prevelant in biblical days then now and Im sure women had very little recourse but to pray for their husbands. Hmmm....


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## PinkPebbles (Nov 10, 2009)

This is a touchy subject but unfortunately verbal and physical abuse happen everyday. 

My spirit is grieving right now because something awful happened to my best friend last night. 

My response comes from my heart....If my friend, sister, cousin, aunt, mother, etc. informs me that they are being abused by their spouse. I'd tell them it's time to worry and love only yourself right now until you are emotionally, physically, and mentally healed. 

I'm going to help you pack your belongings and you are moving in with me. In the meantime, you are not going to stress or worry about your marriage. That brother needs help. Until he acknowledges his wrong doing and gets the help that he desperately needs you are not to have any interaction with him. 

A woman that is suffering from abuse is stripped from her self-worth. She needs a lot of time building her self back up and being strengthened in the Lord.


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## Prudent1 (Nov 10, 2009)

CoilyFields said:


> This is very interesting as *I assume *that physical abuse of women was more prevelant in biblical days then now and Im sure women had very little recourse but to pray for their husbands. Hmmm....


Coily, 
So glad you brought that up. There are a lot of erroneous things ppl have assumed about God and his view of women which have unfortunately lead to confusion among both sexes- this is one of them. Nowhere in the bible does God condone women being abused. Not physically, emotionally, nor spritually. Women are not second class citizens designed to be at a man's beck and call. In fact, there are instances of women who were abused sexually etc and the men (God respecting men) in their families extracted a heavy toll towards the perpetrator- death. The bible (and history) teaches us that there are no new things happening now that haven't always taken place. So, there are no more instances of abuse now versus in biblical times. Prayer is significantly more than a method of recourse for a Christian. In a situation like this it is an act of obedience towards God who has instructed us to allow him to make changes in our hearts that allow us to pray for the most vile of human actions directed towards us. Doing so allows us to go on and lead healthy lives. As others here have stated if an abuser is _truly _sorry that person _can_ be changed but only by God. That is not up to the abused to be concerned with nor should they allow themselves to continue to be in contact with the abuser. A person can only change themselves. A lot of good women are deceased now from _staying_ in abusive situations and not receiving Godly counsel + not asking/ being sure they heard from God for themselves. A real man, that is a God respecting man understands that one of his main roles as a man is to serve as a *protector* at all costs (even if he dies in the process) of the women in his life. Some abusers will not change because they don't want to. They will reap what they have sown. God loves and values women. He always has. He always will. Ignorance of his great and unending love kills. Great post!!
Prudent1

BTW OP:
A marriage is a blood binding covenant. Like all contracts/ covenants I think all parties can violate their agreements and render the contract null and void so to speak. The problem is that we have too many ppl throwing in the towel in marriages who are just plain selfish. They have not truly done all they can do. They have not sought God and received his instruction on how to conduct themselves in their individual situations. Before anyone says I don't understand. I do. I am a survivor of physical and mental abuse in my previous marriage. I am currently divorced from the offender. After a period of years, I have forgiven him.


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## Laela (Nov 10, 2009)

It takes *two *to make a marriage work. If one isn't committed, the marriage will fail. That's not to say a marriage was not of God or not.


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## JinaRicci (Nov 10, 2009)

I don't think it's an absolute- it depends on the situation and specifically what God is saying to do.  For example, we know that God hates divorce but he also said "Thou shall not kill." There are some situations where the woman's (or man's) life is under threat or where the abused ends up killing the abuser.  Will we advise someone who is going through this to stay married to that type of person no matter how long it takes for that person to change?  And what if they don't?  

I agree that God can work and will work miracles in the abuser's life but that person has also got to be willing- they still have a choice here.   And let's face it there are some marriages that God did not ordain in the first place. Yes he honors them all the same but in some cases God has a different plan. To me that is a decision that most importantly needs to be reconciled with God.


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

JinaRicci said:


> I don't think it's an absolute- it depends on the situation and specifically what God is saying to do.  For example, we know that God hates divorce but he also said "Thou shall not kill." There are some situations where the woman's (or man's) life is under threat or where the abused ends up killing the abuser.  Will we advise someone who is going through this to stay married to that type of person no matter how long it takes for that person to change?  And what if they don't?
> 
> *I agree that God can work and will work miracles in the abuser's life *but that person has also got to be willing- they still have a choice here.   And let's face it there are some marriages that God did not ordain in the first place. Yes he honors them all the same but in some cases God has a different plan. To me that is a decision that most importantly needs to be reconciled with God.


I said that I have seen God work miracles in situations like this...I wasn't specific on the 'abuser'.  WE should not tell anyone if they should or should not stay married...that's not OUR call.  It's the person who is in the situation's call to stay married or not.

As believers, we must be careful when giving advice to married couples.  That's a covenant...regardless of what is happening.  When we involve ourselves in it, we begin to own something that doesn't belong to us.  I have seen on many occasions, when the husband was abusive, and when there was an intervention...the wife, jumped on the person trying to help.  This is why it's so important to let the other person make the call if they will divorce or not.  Don't get involved with it.


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## Prudent1 (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I said that I have seen God work miracles in situations like this...I wasn't specific on the 'abuser'. WE should not tell anyone if they should or should not stay married...that's not OUR call. It's the person who is in the situation's call to stay married or not.
> 
> *As believers, we must be careful when giving advice to married couples. That's a covenant...regardless of what is happening. When we involve ourselves in it, we begin to own something that doesn't belong to us.* I have seen on many occasions, when the husband was abusive, and when there was an intervention...the wife, jumped on the person trying to help. This is why it's so important to let the other person make the call if they will divorce or not. Don't get involved with it.


 ITA,
Very careful indeed...ppl don't understand how important marriage is to God. Very careful...


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## PinkPebbles (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I said that I have seen God work miracles in situations like this...I wasn't specific on the 'abuser'. WE should not tell anyone if they should or should not stay married...that's not OUR call. It's the person who is in the situation's call to stay married or not.
> 
> *As believers, we must be careful when giving advice to married couples. That's a covenant...regardless of what is happening.* *When we involve ourselves in it, we begin to own something that doesn't belong to us.* I have seen on many occasions, when the husband was abusive, and when there was an intervention...the wife, jumped on the person trying to help. This is why it's so important to let the other person make the call if they will divorce or not. Don't get involved with it.


 
Nice&Wavy - I ask this question in all sincerity....

If your best friend or sister came to your doorstep after midnight during a weekday with a broken arm and a bruised face from her abusive husband. What would you do? How much would you involve yourself? What advice would you give this sister or best friend?


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## meka (Nov 10, 2009)

I know no marriage is perfect and there will be trials but I can't help but wonder if an abusive marriage is ordained by God. You know how the Lord has the One for us if he so chooses us to marry and when it does NOT line up with His will, things like that will happen.

Any insight?


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## Shimmie (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I said that I have seen God work miracles in situations like this...I wasn't specific on the 'abuser'. WE should not tell anyone if they should or should not stay married...that's not OUR call. It's the person who is in the situation's call to stay married or not.
> 
> *As believers, we must be careful when giving advice to married couples. That's a covenant...regardless of what is happening. When we involve ourselves in it, we begin to own something that doesn't belong to us.*
> 
> I have seen on many occasions, when the husband was abusive, and when there was an intervention...the wife, jumped on the person trying to help. This is why it's so important to let the other person make the call if they will divorce or not. Don't get involved with it.


Pastor this is so true.   

My mom would always say, _' You can never come between husband and wife." _

And in essence, my mom was teaching us about the Covenent between the two who are one.  

In situations of 'abuse' or life threatening behaviour, common sense tells anyone to 'save yourself and the children', by removing oneself from the situation.    Yet, only God can tell someone to dissolve the marriage.  

What I think about it personally, I can't advise another person.  Only God can do that and should be allowed to.  I have no idea what God's plans are with their marriage and I can't get in the way of it.


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## Shimmie (Nov 10, 2009)

meka said:


> I know no marriage is perfect and there will be trials but I can't help but wonder if an abusive marriage is ordained by God. You know how the Lord has the One for us if he so chooses us to marry and when it does NOT line up with His will, things like that will happen.
> 
> Any insight?


An abusive marriage is most definitely not ordained of God.  God commanda the husband to love his wife and to treat her with tenderness and to be her protector.    To abuse her in any form or fashion is not of God and it never will be.    

God even says in I Peter, that in order for a man's prayers to be heard, that he must be loving to his wife.


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## Laela (Nov 10, 2009)

This is true...  and extends to other scenarios outside of marriage. As believers we each also have a blood covenant with God.  




Nice & Wavy said:


> As believers, we must be careful when giving advice to married couples.  That's a covenant...regardless of what is happening.  When we involve ourselves in it, we begin to own something that doesn't belong to us..


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## JinaRicci (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I said that I have seen God work miracles in situations like this...I wasn't specific on the 'abuser'. WE should not tell anyone if they should or should not stay married...that's not OUR call. It's the person who is in the situation's call to stay married or not.
> 
> As believers, we must be careful when giving advice to married couples. That's a covenant...regardless of what is happening. When we involve ourselves in it, we begin to own something that doesn't belong to us. I have seen on many occasions, when the husband was abusive, and when there was an intervention...the wife, jumped on the person trying to help. This is why it's so important to let the other person make the call if they will divorce or not. Don't get involved with it.


 
Nice & Wavy- Actually, I wasn't referring specifically to your post. My pt was that God does work to allow these situations to end up for good but not always. We have to allow God to make that decision. ITA on not getting involved on whether to stay married- that's why I wouldn't tell someone in this situation to wait for the person to change OR to get divorced. Let God do the leading. 

I just feel that sometimes we as Christians (in general) can make those going through this feel guilty for wanting to get divorced after all that they have been through. Guilt that God is not even laying on them.


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

PinkPebbles said:


> Nice&Wavy - I ask this question in all sincerity....
> 
> If your best friend or sister came to your doorstep after midnight during a weekday with a broken arm and a bruised face from her abusive husband. What would you do? How much would you involve yourself? What advice would you give this sister or best friend?


Thanks for asking, PinkPebbles.

I deal with situations like this all the time, as both my dh and I have a marriage ministry.  As I stated in my earlier posts, this doesn't just happen with women only...there are women who abuse men as well...trust me, I know this for a fact!  This type of thing happens IN THE CHURCH!  When they do come, we talk to them, pray with them and encourage them in the Lord, but we NEVER, EVER, EVER, tell them to get a divorce.

Removing themselves from the home IS something that is encouraged because God did not create us to be doormats for anyone.  Most times, when they do separate, the person is able to think clearer and is then able to hear the Lord about what the next step would be.  We want that person to hear the Lord, and not us.  Man will fail a person every time, but God will never fail that person.


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Pastor this is so true.
> 
> My mom would always say, _' You can never come between husband and wife." _
> 
> ...


Shimmie, the bolded is something that is so true, yet...most don't follow this.  I find that most people want someone to tell them to dissolve the marriage...then I have seen them say "well, pastor/leader/teacher so and so said it was ok.


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

Laela said:


> This is true...  and extends to other scenarios outside of marriage. As believers we each also have a blood covenant with God.


Yes, it does extend outside of marriage


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

JinaRicci said:


> Nice & Wavy- Actually, I wasn't referring specifically to your post. My pt was that God does work to allow these situations to end up for good but not always. We have to allow God to make that decision. ITA on not getting involved on whether to stay married- that's why I wouldn't tell someone in this situation to wait for the person to change OR to get divorced. Let God do the leading.
> 
> I just feel that sometimes we as Christians (in general) can make those going through this feel guilty for wanting to get divorced after all that they have been through. Guilt that God is not even laying on them.


JinaRicci, the only reason why I responded to your post was because I was the one who mentioned "miracles" in the post and then you mentioned it in yours.  I totally understood what you were trying to say.  No one should be made to feel guilty about any decision that they have made in their lives, whether its about a marriage or something else.  God is a God of order!


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## PinkPebbles (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thanks for asking, PinkPebbles.
> 
> I deal with situations like this all the time, as both my dh and I have a marriage ministry. As I stated in my earlier posts, this doesn't just happen with women only...there are women who abuse men as well...trust me, I know this for a fact! This type of thing happens IN THE CHURCH! When they do come, we talk to them, pray with them and encourage them in the Lord, but we NEVER, EVER, EVER, tell them to get a divorce.
> 
> *Removing themselves from the home IS something that is encouraged because God did not create us to be doormats for anyone. Most times, when they do separate, the person is able to think clearer and is then able to hear the Lord about what the next step would be. We want that person to hear the Lord,* and not us. Man will fail a person every time, but God will never fail that person.


 
Thanks for your response. And definitely agree with the bolded.


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

meka said:


> I know no marriage is perfect and there will be trials but I can't help but wonder if an abusive marriage is ordained by God. You know how the Lord has the One for us if he so chooses us to marry and when it does NOT line up with His will, things like that will happen.
> 
> Any insight?


What we must remember is this: Marriage is of God!  When there is abuse in a marriage, then that person must make a decision whether they want to separate from their spouse, because they don't want to be in a position of abuse.  

Most of us believe that it was ordained of God when we met the person we fell in love with.  When we marry, God honors His Covenant.  Many people find themselves in these positions because they didn't want to see the signs before they got married (ie: "he/she will change once we get married." "I'll have a baby and that will change the situation.", etc.)  All of this is before they say "I DO" yet, they do it anyway after seeing all the signs and then when this type of thing happens, they blame God.

Another thing is that many people don't see the signs before hand because the person doing the abuse, is good at putting on a front...loving, nice, sweet...blah, blah...and then as soon as you say "I DO" Wham!  the real person comes forth.

We must be in a position of discernment in our lives in every area, not just marriage.  We will be saved from so much if we just use our gifts more, and use less of our emotions.


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

PinkPebbles said:


> Thanks for your response. And definitely agree with the bolded.


You are more than welcome, sis.  This is a very sensitive subject, for many.  We all have either been in these types of situations, or know someone close to us who have or are going through it.  

 to all!


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## Shimmie (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Shimmie, the bolded is something that is so true, yet...most don't follow this .
> 
> I find that most people want someone to tell them to dissolve the marriage...
> 
> *then I have seen them say "well, pastor/leader/teacher so and so said it was ok  *.


 
EXACTLY !  Pastor Wavy,  it has to be 'their' and God's decision.  All 'we' can do is be a prayer support.  

I know that by 'staying', we are teaching the abusive spouse that it's okay to 'abuse'.  So hit me once, I'm gone. 

*But that's just me, personally.*   (Plus you already know I'm a hard head,  cause I'd be in there fighting back, then I'd leave.   I'm not leaving without putting a few licks of my own on him. :hardslap:  And I'm still a lady with silk, satin, and lace.  I just don't play that mess, getting hit.  It brings out the 'Madea' in me.  

But to dissolve a marriage is not for me to tell someone else, for if this person 'the abuser' truly gets help, then I've dissolved a family's healing, even worse, I may be interfering with their Destiny or answer to prayer.   

This applies with both male and female situations, for there are some abusive women out there beating up on their husbands dreadfully.   Because of humiliation, these men will not share this to get help.  It's sad for anyone that this happens to.  

But you're right, 'we' cannot tell them to dissolve.  It's not our 'call'.


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## Irresistible (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> What we must remember is this: Marriage is of God!  When there is abuse in a marriage, then that person must make a decision whether they want to separate from their spouse, because they don't want to be in a position of abuse.
> 
> Most of us believe that it was ordained of God when we met the person we fell in love with.  When we marry, God honors His Covenant.  Many people find themselves in these positions because they didn't want to see the signs before they got married (ie: "he/she will change once we get married." "I'll have a baby and that will change the situation.", etc.)  All of this is before they say "I DO" yet, they do it anyway after seeing all the signs and then when this type of thing happens, they blame God.
> 
> ...




Ahhh my most painful lesson right here 

might as well put this in lights

cause that aint no joke! My emotions/feelings have surely taken me places I know God would not want for me

I am working on this so hard now and am standing/not being moved by emotions

used to be me , dont know what happened, but I'm getting back

cause opening doors based on my emotions and feelings, let the enemy just about kill me and severely wound my soul with abuse.  sigh


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

Shimmie, you and me both!  My mother use to say "If a man put his hands on me, I'll kill him, do my time, then marry another one that looks just like him."...my mother was extra in that area, let me tell you...she didn't play.




Shimmie said:


> EXACTLY !  Pastor Wavy,  it has to be 'their' and God's decision.  All 'we' can do is be a prayer support.
> 
> I know that by 'staying', we are teaching the abusive spouse that it's okay to 'abuse'.  So hit me once, I'm gone.
> 
> ...


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> [/B]
> 
> Ahhh my most painful lesson right here
> 
> ...


Glad to know you are working this out for your good.


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## Shimmie (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Shimmie, you and me both! My mother use to say "If a man put his hands on me, I'll kill him, do my time, then marry another one that looks just like him."...my mother was extra in that area, let me tell you...she didn't play.


"All my life, I've had to fight.  


But if Harpo hits me, I'll kill em' dead.....


 I couldn't resist.


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## joy2day (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm done now Shimmie, no you didn't!


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 10, 2009)

Prudent1 said:


> ITA,
> Very careful indeed...ppl don't understand how important marriage is to God. Very careful...


ITA...very, very careful!



Shimmie said:


> "All my life, I've had to fight.
> 
> 
> But if Harpo hits me, I'll kill em' dead.....
> ...


    



joy2day said:


> I'm done now Shimmie, no you didn't!


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## Laela (Nov 10, 2009)

Marriage is a reflection of God's relationship with his people... when the enemy wants to attack the church, marriage is one of the easiest ways to do so.


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## divya (Nov 10, 2009)

I believe that the abused individual should physically leave but not divorce unless there is infidelity. I am in complete agreement that she or he should pray for that spouse during that time. Often the abusive spouse will move on romantically, then the abused individual is free to go (divorce). Sometimes the abusive spouse heeds the voice of the Lord and changes.


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## Butterfly08 (Nov 11, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> ITA...she should leave and pray for him. I have seen God do miracles in the lives of so many people in these situations. If the man or woman (woman can be abusive as well) chooses not to repent...it's God's job to handle them...you are to continue to pray and stay focused on the plans that God has for your life.


 
Do you mean just leave the house, or divorce? To expound a bit more, I am referring to a situation where the abuse has been ongoing, and the wife has prayed for her husband for years with no lasting change. In fact, the husband refuses to even admit that he is abusing her, and consequently takes no responsibility for his behavior at all. 



Prudent1 said:


> A real man, that is a God respecting man understands that one of his main roles as a man is to serve as a *protector* at all costs (even if he dies in the process) of the women in his life. Some abusers will not change because they don't want to. They will reap what they have sown. God loves and values women. He always has. He always will. Ignorance of his great and unending love kills. Great post!!
> Prudent1
> 
> BTW OP:
> A marriage is a blood binding covenant. Like all contracts/ covenants I think all parties can violate their agreements and render the contract null and void so to speak. The problem is that we have too many ppl throwing in the towel in marriages who are just plain selfish. They have not truly done all they can do. They have not sought God and received his instruction on how to conduct themselves in their individual situations. Before anyone says I don't understand. I do. I am a survivor of physical and mental abuse in my previous marriage. I am currently divorced from the offender. After a period of years, I have forgiven him.


 
Yes - it is so painful that the person meant to protect is the one doing the wounding! And I do agree that some people throw in the towel too easily. Again, I'm referring to the wife who has sought counseling, prayed for years, and there is just no change - or perhaps less physical violence but continued emotional abuse and denial. 



JinaRicci said:


> I don't think it's an absolute- it depends on the situation and specifically what God is saying to do. For example, we know that God hates divorce but he also said "Thou shall not kill." There are some situations where the woman's (or man's) life is under threat or where the abused ends up killing the abuser. *Will we advise someone who is going through this to stay married to that type of person no matter how long it takes for that person to change? And what if they don't?*
> 
> I agree that God can work and will work miracles in the abuser's life but that person has also got to be willing- they still have a choice here.


 
And this is my point. What if the husband never changes? 10, 20 years later? Is the woman stuck for the rest of her life? Living apart for her own safety, but still "married" and unable to find true love with a man who will treat her the way God intended until her "first husband" dies? 



JinaRicci said:


> I just feel that sometimes we as Christians (in general) can make those going through this feel guilty for wanting to get divorced after all that they have been through. Guilt that God is not even laying on them.


 




Nice & Wavy said:


> Thanks for asking, PinkPebbles.
> 
> I deal with situations like this all the time, as both my dh and I have a marriage ministry. As I stated in my earlier posts, this doesn't just happen with women only...there are women who abuse men as well...trust me, I know this for a fact! This type of thing happens IN THE CHURCH! When they do come, we talk to them, pray with them and encourage them in the Lord, but we NEVER, EVER, EVER, tell them to get a divorce.
> 
> Removing themselves from the home IS something that is encouraged because God did not create us to be doormats for anyone. Most times, when they do separate, the person is able to think clearer and is then able to hear the Lord about what the next step would be. *We want that person to hear the Lord, and not us.* Man will fail a person every time, but God will never fail that person.


 
Good point! 


Nice & Wavy said:


> What we must remember is this: Marriage is of God! When there is abuse in a marriage, then that person must make a decision whether they want to separate from their spouse, because they don't want to be in a position of abuse.
> 
> Most of us believe that it was ordained of God when we met the person we fell in love with. When we marry, God honors His Covenant. Many people find themselves in these positions because they didn't want to see the signs before they got married (ie: "he/she will change once we get married." "I'll have a baby and that will change the situation.", etc.) All of this is before they say "I DO" yet, they do it anyway after seeing all the signs and then when this type of thing happens, they blame God.
> 
> ...


 
The bolded is what happened in this situation that I am referring to. There was no physical abuse prior to the marriage, during a courtship/engagement of over 2 years. But a couple weeks afterwards it started. 



Nice & Wavy said:


> You are more than welcome, sis. This is a very sensitive subject, for many. We all have either been in these types of situations, or know someone close to us who have or are going through it.
> 
> to all!


 
This is a very touching subject indeed. 



Shimmie said:


> "All my life, I've had to fight.
> 
> 
> But if Harpo hits me, I'll kill em' dead.....
> ...


 
 ROFL


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 11, 2009)

Butterfly08 said:


> Do you mean just leave the house, or divorce? To expound a bit more, I am referring to a situation where the abuse has been ongoing, and the wife has prayed for her husband for years with no lasting change. In fact, the husband refuses to even admit that he is abusing her, and consequently takes no responsibility for his behavior at all.


I mean leave the house.  As I stated before, I don't tell anyone to divorce their spouse...no matter what.  It's not my responsibility to do so.  It should be the decision of the person who is in the abusive situation.  

Marriage is a serious thing.  We tell young couples all the time, to make sure that you truly want to do this before entering into the covenant.  Remember, we make a vow before the Lord and say "for better or worse, richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, etc." those are serious words to say, yet...I believe that God will honor a person to separate themselves from someone who is being abusive.  

A husband is suppose to love his wife as Christ loves the church and gave Himself up for her.  Beating a wife is not like Christ at all, therefore a person must separate themselves from the home, so that they can hear from the Lord in what to do.  There are people who stay this way for years, until the person who is the abuser gets a divorce or dies.

It is what it is, sis....


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## Butterfly08 (Nov 11, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I mean leave the house. As I stated before, I don't tell anyone to divorce their spouse...no matter what. It's not my responsibility to do so. It should be the decision of the person who is in the abusive situation.
> 
> Marriage is a serious thing. We tell young couples all the time, to make sure that you truly want to do this before entering into the covenant. Remember, we make a vow before the Lord and say "for better or worse, richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, etc." those are serious words to say, yet...I believe that God will honor a person to separate themselves from someone who is being abusive.
> 
> ...


 
I hear you.  It's just upsetting to think that the abused woman would be chained to such a man for the rest of his life, especially if he never changes.  (Even if she lives separately - she still wouldn't be free to find someone who will live her and respect her appropriately). I just have a hard time agreeing with that.


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## Prudent1 (Nov 11, 2009)

Yes - it is so painful that the person meant to protect is the one doing the wounding! And I do agree that some people throw in the towel too easily. Again, I'm referring to the wife who has sought counseling, prayed for years, and there is just *no change - or perhaps less physical violence but continued emotional abuse and denial. *
And this is my point. What if the husband never changes? 10, 20 years later? *Is the **woman stuck for the rest of her life?* Living apart for her own safety, but still "married" and unable to find true love with a man who will treat her the way God intended until her "first husband" dies? 


What I know for sure is this...God loves us. He wants us to trust him completely. He needs us to understand that like any parent, he knows things we do not. By removing oneself from the violent situation and really seeking God answers can be found. What if it is best for her to remain alone? What if it is not? What if that person truly changed? What if they did not? We can only give basic responses b/c in the end the decision is up to the ppl in that situation. They have to get this instruction from God for themselves. Even though I am divorced and it was directly related to the abuse I suffered- at that time in my life I did not want God's input. I don't know what all he would have instructed me to do. How can a woman who is really walking with God and being obedient to him be stuck? He is able to take care of her even if that care comes in forms we did not initially see or understand. I know what you are saying . I'm just saying *faith and trust *in God kicks in big time here...Anyone in this type of situation must receive from God for themselves. God is all knowing and not stingy when it comes to giving wisdom.


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 11, 2009)

Butterfly08 said:


> I hear you.  It's just upsetting to think that the abused woman would be chained to such a man for the rest of his life, especially if he never changes.  (Even if she lives separately - she still wouldn't be free to find someone who will live her and respect her appropriately). I just have a hard time agreeing with that.


Remember, we don't know the heart of God like we think we do.  God's ways are certainly not our ways and His thoughts are unlike our thoughts.  He is perfect in every sense of the word!

That abusive thing could continue in her life, even if she divorces her husband and find someone else.  What God wants is for her to be free from the torment and it takes time spent with God, being in His presence, to be free from it.  God has a way of working out the situation with the spouse, so that she may be free.

I have a friend who found herself in this situation more than once.  Her first husband was very abusive and she got out after 6 years and divorced him.  Only to meet someone who tried to take over her home, while beating her up...she got away from him.  Married someone who she thought was a man of God and beat her to a bloody pulp for a few years.  She finally got the strength to leave him and while she was alone, hearing from the Lord...she finally was free....her husband died.  Now she is able to move on without any guilt of anything.

We are not always going to like what God has to say...but, we must learn to trust Him.

Blessings to you, sis.  I know this is troubling you, but God will give you peace!


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## aribell (Nov 11, 2009)

CoilyFields said:


> This is very interesting as I assume that physical abuse of women was more prevelant in biblical days then now and Im sure women had very little recourse but to pray for their husbands. Hmmm....


 
Yes, I also think that Jesus knew quite well the situation of women when he said that the only permissible divorce was for sexual immorality.  I would think that if abuse were a reason, that He would have said it.  Then again, "abuse" runs along a spectrum.



divya said:


> I believe that the abused individual should physically leave *but not divorce unless there is infidelity.* I am in complete agreement that she or he should pray for that spouse during that time. *Often the abusive spouse will move on romantically, then the abused individual is free to go (divorce).* Sometimes the abusive spouse heeds the voice of the Lord and changes.


 
Unfortunately, the way people act, I feel like sexual immorality in marriage is so common that the question of whether to divorce on the basis of the abuse wouldn't even have to be asked a lot of the time. 




Butterfly08 said:


> I hear you.  It's just upsetting to think that the abused woman would be chained to such a man for the rest of his life, especially if he never changes.  (Even if she lives separately - she still wouldn't be free to find someone who will live her and respect her appropriately). I just have a hard time agreeing with that.


 

I think that it's _highly_ unlikely that an abusive husband would remain faithful to his wife for years after being separated.  I don't think she would have to wait.

_However_, sometimes--maybe even a lot of times--God calls us to go above and beyond and wait for Him to do something great, by faith.  Even if there are biblical grounds for divorce, that doesn't mean that people have to leave.  I know a woman who has been waiting for years upon years now, for her husband who she has every reason to forget, because God spoke a word to her about it.  In the meantime, she's helped many divorced couples reconcile.


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## Laela (Nov 11, 2009)

interesting viewpoint...   when we marry, we become one. I'd think adultery is a form of abuse of the other spouse. 

I just remember too that not all couples will take the same, or even spiritual, vows. Those who take the vows that incorporate Biblical verses and God, will have to answer to God -- and no one else -- for violating those vows.




nicola.kirwan said:


> Yes, I also think that Jesus knew quite well the situation of women when he said that the only permissible divorce was for sexual immorality.  I would think that if abuse were a reason, that He would have said it.  Then again, "abuse" runs along a spectrum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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