# Pope Benedict XVI Resigning!



## Nice & Wavy (Feb 11, 2013)

(Photo: Vincenzo Pinto, AFP/Getty Images)


Pope Benedict XVI will step down Feb. 28
He will be the first pontiff to resign in 600 years
Diminishing strength cited as reason behind resignation
 The Vatican said on Monday in a shock announcement that  Pope Benedict XVI will resign his office on February 28.

The Italian news agency ANSA first reported the news, which it said was made in Latin during a meeting of cardinals in Rome. "After  having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the  certainty that my strengths due to an advanced age are no longer suited  to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry," he told the  cardinals. "I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential  spiritual nature, must be carried out not only by words and deeds but no  less with prayer and suffering.

However, in today's world,  subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep  relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the bark of St.  Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are  necessary — strengths which in the last few months, have deteriorated in  me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to  adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me."

*TEXT: *Pope Benedict XVI's resignation

The  pope's brother, Georg Ratzinger, said the pontiff had been advised by  his doctor not to take any more transatlantic trips and had been  considering stepping down for months. Talking from his home in  Regensburg, Germany, Georg Ratzinger said his brother was having  increasing difficulty walking and that his resignation was part of a  "natural process."

The announcement comes as a surprise to millions of Catholics around the world.

*MORE: Pope Benedict XVI first pope to resign in 600 years*

Cardinal  Joseph Ratzinger became Pope in 2005 after the death of John Paul II.  He is 85 years old and will be the first pontiff to resign in 600 years. The  last pope to resign was Pope Gregory XII, who stepped down in 1415 in a  deal to end the Great Western Schism among competing papal claimants.

Benedict called his choice "a decision of great importance for the life of the church."

http://www.usatoday.com/


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## Laela (Feb 11, 2013)

I just read that this morning... interesting....

Hope you're doing well, sis!


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 11, 2013)

Laela said:


> I just read that this morning... interesting....
> 
> Hope you're doing well, sis!


It is interesting indeed

I am doing well sis  thanks for asking!  Hope all is well with you too!


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## sweetvi (Feb 11, 2013)

Hmmmm. Why I wonder


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 11, 2013)

sweetvi said:


> Hmmmm. Why I wonder


Many of us are wondering as well.


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## auparavant (Feb 11, 2013)

He's seriously ill.


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## Galadriel (Feb 11, 2013)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Many of us are wondering as well.



N&W, Pope Benedict is 85/86 years old, and in poor health. Besides overseeing Rome (the pope is the Bishop of Rome), he also heads the universal Church, meets with visitors, dignitaries, travels, performs baptisms and administers sacraments, etc. It's a lot of work, a huge task, and I can see why he'd resign, though it does sadden me.


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 11, 2013)

God bless Pope Benedict XVI and whomever his successor will be.  Leading the Church (as our Lord commanded Peter before He ascended into Heaven) has never been an easy responsibility, especially in the modern age.  I'm sure this decision involved a lot of discernment and hopefully the next pope will continue to lead the Church.  I've seen many fallen Catholics and non-Catholics on FB talking about this is an opportunity for the Church to modernize on contraception, homosexuality, etc.  As long as God is in control, the Church will never bow to the whims of men.  I wish him many more years of life and hope he enjoys his rest.


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 11, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> N&W, Pope Benedict is 85/86 years old, and in poor health. Besides overseeing Rome (the pope is the Bishop of Rome), he also heads the universal Church, meets with visitors, dignitaries, travels, performs baptisms and administers sacraments, etc. It's a lot of work, a huge task, and I can see why he'd resign, though it does sadden me.



Basically.  There's nothing more to the story than that.


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## auparavant (Feb 11, 2013)

Belle Du Jour said:


> God bless Pope Benedict XVI and whomever his successor will be.  Leading the Church (as our Lord commanded Peter before He ascended into Heaven) has never been an easy responsibility, especially in the modern age.  I'm sure this decision involved a lot of discernment and hopefully the next pope will continue to lead the Church.  I've seen many fallen Catholics and non-Catholics on FB talking about this is an opportunity for the Church to modernize on contraception, homosexuality, etc.  As long as God is in control, the Church will never bow to the whims of men.  I wish him many more years of life and hope he enjoys his rest.




Haha...I heard a young person voicing opinion that we need a younger person to reflect our modern changes....um, child, your church is not going to ever change...maybe you should go back through CCD and actually take notes this time?    I thought that was a riot, @Belle Du Jour 

One positive "change" the church has made in regards to homosexuality is one of mercy, love and understanding. It's never changed its view that the base is inordinate origins from man's general sinful state but it does realize that being of said mind is not in itself an active sin...the actions of homosexual behavior are the sin.  


In fact, our stance on family and morality has remained consistent.  Pope Benedict XVI didn't change a thing.  It will continue.


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## momi (Feb 11, 2013)

Does anyone here know about the prophecies of Saint Malachy?  These are not Biblical prophecies, but interesting nonetheless.  In keeping with the prophesy the next Pope whom he calls "Peter the Roman" will be the last pope.  


_
"In the persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations after which the seven hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people."_


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 11, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> N&W, Pope Benedict is 85/86 years old, and in poor health. Besides overseeing Rome (the pope is the Bishop of Rome), he also heads the universal Church, meets with visitors, dignitaries, travels, performs baptisms and administers sacraments, etc. It's a lot of work, a huge task, and I can see why he'd resign, though it does sadden me.


Thank you for sharing.  I posted this thread before I knew exactly why he resigned.  I appreciate your kindness to explain it to me.


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## sweetvi (Feb 11, 2013)

Thanks for the explanation.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 11, 2013)

momi said:


> Does anyone here know about the prophecies of Saint Malachy?  These are not Biblical prophecies, but interesting nonetheless.  In keeping with the prophesy the next Pope whom he calls "Peter the Roman" will be the last pope.
> 
> 
> _
> "In the persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations after which the seven hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people."_


Wow, interesting!


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## auparavant (Feb 11, 2013)

momi said:


> Does anyone here know about the prophecies of Saint Malachy?  These are not Biblical prophecies, but interesting nonetheless.  In keeping with the prophesy the next Pope whom he calls "Peter the Roman" will be the last pope.
> 
> 
> _
> "In the persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations after which the seven hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people."_




Yes, and Our Lady has also given us a glimpse of future events.


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## HeChangedMyName (Feb 11, 2013)

momi said:


> Does anyone here know about the prophecies of Saint Malachy?  These are not Biblical prophecies, but interesting nonetheless.  In keeping with the prophesy the next Pope whom he calls "Peter the Roman" will be the last pope.
> 
> 
> _
> "In the persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations after which the seven hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people."_




I watched this youtube last week and immediately upon hearing of his resignation, I was like    This video states that He would only be Pope for a short time. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOQ2s5CEPaw&list=UU79naBVmUyEFWNl7LA_VQDg&index=2

I know no one knows the day or time, but I believe we are very close.  he still has until  the 28th and a lot can transpire between now and then.

This video series  talks about the seven trumpets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdjyIoyP3Xo


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## HeChangedMyName (Feb 11, 2013)

what I don't want to see is the next pope claiming to be a resurrection or kindred spirit or channeling or connected to ANY person.


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## auparavant (Feb 11, 2013)

^^^Could you further explain that?  I'm not following.


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## HeChangedMyName (Feb 11, 2013)

auparavant said:


> ^^^Could you further explain that?  I'm not following.



According to the video, the next pope will be one of the last seven(all of whom are deceased).  We already know that the antichrist will come and fool people into thinking he is the resurrected Christ.


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 11, 2013)

HeChangedMyName said:


> According to the video, the next pope will be one of the last seven(all of whom are deceased).  We already know that the antichrist will come and fool people into thinking he is the resurrected Christ.



Let me free your mind right now: the pope is the vicar of Christ on earth and can therefore never be the antichrist


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## HeChangedMyName (Feb 11, 2013)

Belle Du Jour said:


> Let me free your mind right now: the pope is the vicar of Christ on earth and can therefore never be the antichrist




How do we know that for sure?  I'm not saying the pope is the anti-christ.  Anyone beside Christ himself could be the antichrist.


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## auparavant (Feb 11, 2013)

I do remember something about there being 2 left that Jesus and Our Lady picked.  I'm not sure if that was a revelation that has been condemned or not.


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## HeChangedMyName (Feb 11, 2013)

auparavant said:


> I do remember something about there being 2 left that Jesus and Our Lady picked.  I'm not sure if that was a revelation that has been condemned or not.


Who are you referring to as "Our Lady"  I'm not Catholic and am not familiar.


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## auparavant (Feb 11, 2013)

HeChangedMyName said:


> Who are you referring to as "Our Lady"  I'm not Catholic and am not familiar.




Jesus' Mother, Mary.  I meant that for Belle Du Jour , sorry.


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## Foxglove (Feb 11, 2013)

HeChangedMyName said:


> Who are you referring to as "Our Lady"  I'm not Catholic and am not familiar.



The virgin Mary


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## auparavant (Feb 11, 2013)

Source

Is the Next Pope the Last Pope?
By Father Dwight Longenecker
February 11, 2013 11:44 A.M.

In the year 1140, an Irish bishop named Malachy visited Rome with a group of monks. They climbed the Janiculum Hill to thank God for the safe completion of their journey. While there (so the story goes), Malachy had a vision in which he “saw” 111 Popes to the end of time. Each Pope was chronicled with by a short, cryptic epigram in Latin. And with the resignation of Benedict XVI, the last Pope on Saint Malachy’s list is about to be elected.

The prophecy for the last Pope contained a alarming vision: “During the last persecution of the Holy Roman church there shall sit Peter of Rome, who shall feed the sheep amidst the many great tribulations, and when these have passed, the City of the Seven Hills shall be utterly destroyed and the awful Judge will judge the people.”

Conspiracy theorists and Nostradamus nuts love poring over the prophecies of Saint Malachy, straining to make sense of his cryptic messages. The epigram for Benedict XVI was “the glory of the olive,” so after his election the prophecy hounds pointed out that there is a famous Benedictine monastery called Monte Oliveto. He chose his papal name after Saint Benedict. Saint Benedict is the glory of Monte Oliveto. It’s totally clear right?

It’s all very exciting to think that the last Pope is about to be elected, so the second coming and the end of the world is nigh.

The problems, however, are manifold. First of all, the prognosticators behave like all conspiracy theorists and prophecy lovers: Begin with the theory or prophecy and make the facts fit.

The second problem is something called documentary evidence. Although Saint Malachy was a historic figure from the twelfth century, there is no mention of his prophecies before 1590, and, surprise, surprise, the prophetic mottos for the Popes are quite accurate up to the late 1500s. Then they become obscure and inaccurate. In addition, the seer Nostradamus lived in the late 1500s, a time when there was a fashionable fascination with prophecies expressed in cryptic language. Scholars have judged the prophecies of the twelfth-century St Malachy to be a rather poor 16th-century forgery — probably produced to influence a papal election at the time.

So you can probably sleep peacefully tonight. The end of the world is probably not nigh.

On the other hand . . . why not prepare your soul, just to be on the safe side?

— Father Dwight Longenecker is the author of the Screwtape Letters-type Lent book The Gargoyle Code.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 11, 2013)

HeChangedMyName as I read your posts, this came to my mind:

John 14: 16-18  proclaims,_*“But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my  name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have  said to you.” *_ _*“And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another  Counselor to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot  accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know  Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as  orphans; I will come to you.”*_ 

The Holy Spirit is the only One who we need to look to for these answers we seek, as He is our Teacher and Counselor!  I know you know this, but wanted to share what is on my heart at this time


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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 11, 2013)

Nice & Wavy said:


> HeChangedMyName as I read your posts, this came to my mind:
> 
> John 14: 16-18  proclaims,“But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my  name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have  said to you.”  “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another  Counselor to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot  accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know  Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as  orphans; I will come to you.”
> 
> The Holy Spirit is the only One who we need to look to for these answers we seek, as He is our Teacher and Counselor!  I know you know this, but wanted to share what is on my heart at this time



Because thanks wasn't enough... Its about depending on the Holy Ghost. Only someone truly filled has spiritual eyes and ears to be led by Him!!

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 11, 2013)

And we believe that the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit has guided the Church and the seat of Peter until this very day.   The teaching authority was handed over to Peter by Christ Himself before He left this earth.    

So when Christ said, a house divided against itself can never stand, how could that possibly mean that the antichrist could infiltrate the church?  That would mean Jesus' words were not true, which we all know is impossible.  2000+ years and still going. . .nope, Satan will not prevail.


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 11, 2013)

auparavant said:


> I do remember something about there being 2 left that Jesus and Our Lady picked.  I'm not sure if that was a revelation that has been condemned or not.



People need to stop playing.  God has been giving all of us ample opportunities to seek the Lord and the truth while it may be found.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 11, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Because thanks wasn't enough... *Its about depending on the Holy Ghost.* Only someone truly filled has spiritual eyes and ears to be led by Him!!
> 
> Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


Amen, sis.

In this hour, we must know to whom we are to give our total and complete attention to....because the Holy Spirit...HE IS OUR HELP!!!


_"My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they follow me.  I give
__them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. So no one can take them from me. The Father and I are one."   _John 10: 27-30_
_
_ 
_


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## HeChangedMyName (Feb 11, 2013)

Nice & Wavy said:


> @HeChangedMyName as I read your posts, this came to my mind:
> 
> John 14: 16-18  proclaims,_*“But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my  name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have  said to you.” *_ _*“And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another  Counselor to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot  accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know  Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as  orphans; I will come to you.”*_
> 
> The Holy Spirit is the only One who we need to look to for these answers we seek, as He is our Teacher and Counselor!  I know you know this, but wanted to share what is on my heart at this time



Amen and Amen


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## PinkPeony (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm amazed at his humility in taking this step, I hope future popes take note


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## Galadriel (Feb 12, 2013)

momi said:


> Does anyone here know about the prophecies of Saint Malachy?  These are not Biblical prophecies, but interesting nonetheless.  In keeping with the prophesy the next Pope whom he calls "Peter the Roman" will be the last pope.
> 
> 
> _
> "In the persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations after which the seven hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people."_



Yes, it's interesting 

Some believe "Peter the Roman" will be a pope who leads the Church as St. Peter did, and will emphasize the authority of the pope as the Successor of Peter.


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## Galadriel (Feb 12, 2013)

HeChangedMyName said:


> I watched this youtube last week and immediately upon hearing of his resignation, I was like    This video states that He would only be Pope for a short time. . .
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOQ2s5CEPaw&list=UU79naBVmUyEFWNl7LA_VQDg&index=2



The moment Benedict was elected pope, it was OBVIOUS he would be pope for a short time--he's 85 years old. 

John Paul II was elected when he was 58 years old, if I'm not mistaken, so he enjoyed a longer pontificate (26 years).


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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 12, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> Yes, it's interesting
> 
> Some believe "Peter the Roman" will be a pope who leads the Church as St. Peter did, and will emphasize the authority of the pope as the Successor of Peter.



Leads the church as Peter did and will emphasize the authority of the pope?? 

Acts 10:24-26 KJV
And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends. [25] And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him . [26] But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

1 Peter 1:1 KJV
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1 Peter 5:1-4 KJV
The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: [2] Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof , not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; [3] Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. [4] And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

2 Peter 1:1 KJV
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter certainly wasn't trying to go around emphasizing his authority as "pope". And I never see this title once in God's Word either. Seems like if he were a "pope" he would have called himself that, but he rightly called himself a man, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, a servant and an Elder. He wasn't looking to be worshipped, to enforce his own authority, and he never said he was the "vicar" or "pope" of Christ...


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 12, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Leads the church as Peter did and will emphasize the authority of the pope??
> 
> Acts 10:24-26 KJV
> And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends. [25] And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him . [26] But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
> ...



Are you implying that Catholics worship the pope?  If so, you don't know anything about the church.  It really doesn't matter what Peter thought about himself, it's about the authority Christ gave to him before He left this earth.  Also, sola scriptura (the old "well, it's not in the Bible so it's heresy") as an argument is fatally flawed.   

As the book says, "whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."  God is knocking at many hearts, but they are shutting Him out because they are so solid.  I'm not getting into any debate about the church or what we believe.  I'm just tired of veiled shots against what we "supposedly" believe.   In the end, we will all know the truth.


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 12, 2013)

"I also say to you that you are Peter/Cephas, and upon this rock/cephas I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." Matt 16:18

The word of Jesus Christ Himself.  The End.


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## auparavant (Feb 12, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> The moment Benedict was elected pope, it was OBVIOUS he would be pope for a short time--he's 85 years old.
> 
> John Paul II was elected when he was 58 years old, if I'm not mistaken, so he enjoyed a longer pontificate (26 years).




One of my wise friends (she's an older Jewish woman) said that there could be more harm done when one is not of fully sound mind.  She was referring to the scandals that existed while JPII was in office that could have been dealt with earlier on but that he had become so infirmed.  In other words, when getting feeble, it's best to bow out quickly.


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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 12, 2013)

Belle Du Jour said:


> "I also say to you that you are Peter/Cephas, and upon this rock/cephas I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." Matt 16:18
> 
> The word of Jesus Christ Himself.  The End.



Dear... You can twist the words of Jesus Christ if you want. Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone of the church, Peter played a great part in building the early church, yes but the church was built on Peter's confession of Jesus as the Christ. If you read his epistles you see nothing of a papacy. I'm fine with tradition, unless it contradicts the Bible, which is the only inspired, God-breathed  book so don't tell me about sola scriptura being "flawed". Even a cursory glance of the new testament will reveal that Catholicism wasn't the early church.... My heart is fully sold out for Jesus. He has no need to knock. The truth is in Jesus Christ, not a man-made religious institution.

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 12, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Dear... You can twist the words of Jesus Christ if you want. *Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone of the church*, Peter played a great part in building the early church, yes but the church was built on Peter's confession of Jesus as the Christ. If you read his epistles you see nothing of a papacy. I'm fine with tradition, unless it contradicts the Bible, which is the only inspired, God-breathed  book so don't tell me about sola scriptura being "flawed". Even a cursory glance of the new testament will reveal that Catholicism wasn't the early church.... My heart is fully sold out for Jesus. He has no need to knock. The truth is in Jesus Christ, not a man-made religious institution.
> 
> Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF



You are right, Christ alone is the cornerstone.  What I said is He gave Peter authority over the Church on the earth.  These two things are not mutually exclusive.  I choose to believe what He said.  When you study the early church fathers and their writings (which aren't in the Bible, BTW--it's okay to venture out, it really is) you will see exactly what the early church looked like.  It certainly wasn't Luther's, Calvin's or Joel Osteen's church.   Perhaps more than a cursory glance is in order.

And I can tell you, there is nothing in Catholic tradition that contradicts the Word.  Nothing.


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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 12, 2013)

Belle Du Jour said:


> You are right, Christ alone is the cornerstone.  What I said is He gave Peter authority over the Church on the earth.  These two things are not mutually exclusive.  I choose to believe what He said.  When you study the early church fathers and their writings (which aren't in the Bible, BTW--it's okay to venture out, it really is) you will see exactly what the early church looked like.  It certainly wasn't Luther's, Calvin's or Joel Osteen's church.



I don't follow any of those men, I follow Jesus Christ. The men you mentioned are heretics and sorcerers. And I have studied early church history... Thanks. Peter wasn't given authority over the church in the sense of what the papacy is today. He said himself he was an elder and elders were not to lord over God's people. I believe everything Jesus Christ said, but I won't accept a twisted interpretation of it. This wasn't meant to insult you, I do believe you're sincere. However, it was my study of the early church that gave me my information. You should study something other than Catholic literature.

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


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## auparavant (Feb 12, 2013)

"catholic" means "universal" faith....

whatever Jesus gave us...including the eucharist...which was the Last Supper...it's biblical so, essentially, yes, the catholic church or the universal faith of belief in the Messiah is 2,000 years old...

I'll say this, when in doubt, actually read "their" documents.  That goes for someone wanting to know about any protestant denomination or any other faith.  It's best to hear it from the horse's mouth.

Also, 
A mediator would say, "it would be better to say that my own  personal belief/denominational belief would disagree with the other  position..." rather than this type of exchange.  We don't have the same  beliefs, exactly, but c'mon...we can be nicer than this. Maybe if the emotions are taken out of the discussion....?  I dunno.  Isn't it more beneficial to talk to each other than AT each other and with obvious disdain and chargings?


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## ccd (Feb 12, 2013)

The prophesy does say that the anti Christ would come through the last Pope of the Catholic Church. In revelations our church is persecuted and Rome gets destroyed. Followed by wars ect. 

I don't know whether true or not but the Catholic Church has been involved with unholy behaviors.  This Pope know the details also....Why is it impossible that the ushering in of the antichrist wouldn't come through the most powerful church in the world. I just don't see how one can say :"never"

Also, I have heard he is going to be personally sued for hiding pedophile behaviors so they have asked him to step down. 

I think time will tell honestly but this is historic and should be looked at in depth.


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## aribell (Feb 13, 2013)

A friend called me yesterday asking what I thought, and when I didn't have an opinion, he asked if I thought it meant something shady was going on.  When an 85 year old man says that he is too ill and frail to carry out duties that are extremely demanding both mentally and physically, there is nothing about that which would surprise me.  He has already passed the average life expectancy for men overall, and he is older than the last pope was when he died.  

I'm going with Occam's razor. 



Belle Du Jour said:


> And we believe that the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit has guided the Church and the seat of Peter until this very day.   The teaching authority was handed over to Peter by Christ Himself before He left this earth.
> 
> So when Christ said, a house divided against itself can never stand, how could that possibly mean that the antichrist could infiltrate the church?  That would mean Jesus' words were not true, which we all know is impossible.  2000+ years and still going. . .nope, Satan will not prevail.



Well, I'm not sure if it can be that black and white.  How could the antichrist infiltrate the church?  Likely the same way that false teachers and "tares" and wolves in sheep's clothing infiltrate the Church and lead people away all the time.  Remembering that the end times are just that, the passing away of this earth for the new heavens and the new earth, what the Church will be in the new is not exactly what it is here.  Satan _won't _prevail, but the turbulence experienced by the people of God directly before Jesus comes again is of a kind we have not experienced yet.  

It's so interesting that these prophecies have been mentioned, as similar things have been on my mind these past few weeks.  I think that in all things, every believer must be alert and prepared to confess ultimate loyalty to Christ, as Jesus said that deception will be so strong that even the elect would be deceived if possible.  So whatever it is, it will seem very convincing.

All we can do is keep watch and pray.  Those who trust in Him have nothing to fear.


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## ccd (Feb 13, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fogB6nJzEQ0&sns=em 




This is a good summary of certain aspects of this Pope's resignation. It's not simply that he was an old Pope but that his place in history was written about. In other words, the significance of his short papacy is pretty interesting to say the least. 

This also explained some things to me that I hadn't heard before or considered I guess. Also the reason why the Catholic Church is looked down upon by other denominations


Eta. It's also excellent in the aspect of describing the importance of JP the second and how much influence he had in the world. At least IMHO


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## Galadriel (Feb 13, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Peter certainly wasn't trying to go around emphasizing his authority as "pope". And I never see this title once in God's Word either. Seems like if he were a "pope" he would have called himself that, but he rightly called himself a man, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, a servant and an Elder. He wasn't looking to be worshipped, to enforce his own authority, and he never said he was the "vicar" or "pope" of Christ...



The word "Trinity" isn't in the Bible either, but we still profess belief in the Holy Trinity.

Pope comes from the word "papa" or "daddy," because the Apostles were spiritual fathers to members of the Church. Saint Paul speaks about being such in his letter to Timothy.

Peter was given the Keys to the Kingdom (Matthew 16:18) and the specific wording that Christ used when He said that whatever Peter loosed on earth would be loosed in Heaven, and whatever he bound on earth would be bound in Heaven--this is a specific teaching and moral authority among Jews that Peter, as a Jew, would have recognized that Christ was giving him over the Church.

The Apostles appointed presbyters (Greek: Presbyteros, aka Overseers) to oversee the Church and teach in successive authority. This is the basis of Apostolic Succession.


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## Galadriel (Feb 13, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> 'm fine with tradition, unless it contradicts the Bible, which is the only inspired, God-breathed  book so don't tell me about sola scriptura being "flawed".



But Sola Scriptura *is* flawed, and was invented in the 16th Century. Also, how do you know when a "tradition" contradicts the Bible?

With 40,000+ Protestant denominations all claiming "Bible alone" and the Holy Spirit guiding their interpretations, someone has some explaining to do.

There are some denominations that reject the Trinity, or baptism--and they will argue this based on "Scripture alone." We've even recently had some people in this forum arguing that Jesus and the archangel Michael are one and the same--based on their interpretation of Scripture.

A five-point Calvinist will argue that God predestines certain people to go to Hell, regardless of free will--based on "Scripture alone," and a Methodist will argue the exact opposite, based on "Scripture alone."

Another thing to note is that "Scripture alone" is not even in Scripture. Did you know that the first Gospel was written 30 years after the Resurrection of Christ? So what did the Church do for 30 years before it had the Gospels?

Your criticism of Catholicism is based on a lack of information, as well as a faulty understanding of what we actually believe and teach.


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## Galadriel (Feb 13, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> However, it was my study of the early church that gave me my information. You should study something other than Catholic literature.



I'm sorry, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it appears you haven't really studied church history, due to the ignorant comments you've made thus far. You should study something other than propagandist anti-Catholic literature.


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## AtlantaJJ (Feb 13, 2013)

nicola.kirwan said:


> A friend called me yesterday asking what I thought, and when I didn't have an opinion, he asked if I thought it meant something shady was going on.  When an 85 year old man says that he is too ill and frail to carry out duties that are extremely demanding both mentally and physically, there is nothing about that which would surprise me.  He has already passed the average life expectancy for men overall, and he is older than the last pope was when he died.
> 
> I'm going with Occam's razor.
> 
> ...


I agree with the bolded.  I am being lead to develop a close, personal, intimate relationship with God, to be filled with the Holy Spirit and to follow Jesus with all my heart, mind, & strength.


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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 13, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> I'm sorry, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it appears you haven't really studied church history, due to the ignorant comments you've made thus far. You should study something other than propagandist anti-Catholic literature.



First of all, my studies of Catholicism came from when I met someone very special to me and he is Catholic. My studies at that point were simply to understand what it was all about because I knew very little of it at that point. I have read Catholic literature, so no my readings have not come from anti-Catholic propaganda as you say. I have also read enough through the Catholic boards on here to be aquainted..

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 13, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> The word "Trinity" isn't in the Bible either, but we still profess belief in the Holy Trinity.
> 
> Pope comes from the word "papa" or "daddy," because the Apostles were spiritual fathers to members of the Church. Saint Paul speaks about being such in his letter to Timothy.
> 
> ...



I don't use the word trinity, for starters. I get the origins of the word pope. But in the sense of what it is today, there is no evidence of it in the Bible. Your comments about Apostolic succession contradicts what you claim the pope is. Peter didn't look for a successor for himself he looked for overseers for God's flock. Peter alone was not given the keys to the kingdom, all the disciples were. This is a lie from the pits of hell to give one man sole authority to make decisions. In Matthew 18 Jesus repeats the ability to bind and lose to HIS DISCIPLES not only Peter. So when Jesus Christ spoke those words to Peter it was a representation of the church being built on his confession as Jesus as the Christ because that's who the church was built on, JESUS CHRIST. Not Peter, although he was a powerful man of God.

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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 13, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> But Sola Scriptura is flawed, and was invented in the 16th Century. Also, how do you know when a "tradition" contradicts the Bible?
> 
> With 40,000+ Protestant denominations all claiming "Bible alone" and the Holy Spirit guiding their interpretations, someone has some explaining to do.
> 
> ...



Sola Scriptura is flawed??? Is not God's Word complete? Why do we need something else when the Bible is the only God-breathed, inspired book? The idea of Sola Scriptura did not begin with Martin Luther, John Calvin or any of these heretics, it came right from the Bible!

2 Timothy 3:15-16 KJV
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Only the Bible is able to thoroughly equip us. The only reason you need Catechisms and other books is to make sense of unscriptural practices such as prayer to dead saints (necromancy), prayer beads, priests inability to marry, grace being attached to church sacraments, Mary worship, etc. None of this comes from the Bible. This is Jesus' response to people who try to worship Mary:

Luke 11:27-28 KJV
And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. [28] But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

I agree, there are many "denominations". I am not apart of any of them. It all boils down to people interpreting the Bible with their own carnal minds versus praying and fasting to learn the mind of God like we should be doing. The Bible warns us of this so your arguments are unfounded. What is unscriptural is Catholics sole dependence of "church" leadership to interpret the Bible for them and believing their church over sound scriptural doctrine. Ill leave with posting straight from the inspired Word of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned. (The things of God are discerned by his Spirit. There's your answer to why so many people are so far gone. Many of them simply don't have the Holy Ghost)


2 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (Unlearned and unstable people were twisting the Bible back then. This is not new)

Acts 17:11 KJV
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (These people didn't just believe the apostle, they studied the Word, not other writings, and got understanding for themselves and the Bible calls them NOBLE)


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## Laela (Feb 13, 2013)

My prayer in earnest is with this frail pope and his family. That, in spite of all controversy surrounding him, that all is well with his soul with God at his death. We all _will _die one day. Only Abba Father knows it all. When it's all said and done, God sits on the Throne and is the One all men will stand before to give an account. 

The pope certainly is not exempt, and is subjected to the only Judge that God had already appointed: 

Acts 17:31 
_Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead._


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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 13, 2013)

Laela said:


> My prayer in earnest is with this frail pope and his family. That, in spite of all controversy surrounding him, that all is well with his soul with God at his death. We all will die one day. Only Abba Father knows it all. When it's all said and done, God sits on the Throne and is the One all men will stand before to give an account.
> 
> The pope certainly is not exempt, and is subjected to the only Judge that God had already appointed:
> 
> ...



Very humbling Laela. Thank you. We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


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## auparavant (Feb 13, 2013)

Please remove the emotion behind the discussion...and be kind to one another.


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## Galadriel (Feb 13, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> First of all, my studies of Catholicism came from when I met someone very special to me and he is Catholic. My studies at that point were simply to understand what it was all about because I knew very little of it at that point. I have read Catholic literature, so no my readings have not come from anti-Catholic propaganda as you say. I have also read enough through the Catholic boards on here to be aquainted..
> 
> Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF



I have taught Catholic religious education classes as well as Bible studies, and I guarantee I have way more years of study of the faith than you, and I both *practice* and *believe* the entire Catholic faith.

Give me the name or title of a Catholic author or "literature" you have read or studied.


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## Galadriel (Feb 13, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Sola Scriptura is flawed???



Yes it is, because it was created in the 16th Century by the Protestants, mainly, a man named Martin Luther. Not only is it ironically "man-made," but it is also un-Biblically sound.




MrsHaseeb said:


> Is not God's Word complete?



The Word is complete, but it is not the sole source of authoritative teaching and doctrine--the Apostles' left us their oral teachings and examples as well.



MrsHaseeb said:


> Why do we need something else when the Bible is the only God-breathed, inspired book? The idea of Sola Scriptura did not begin with Martin Luther, John Calvin or any of these heretics, it came right from the Bible!



Wrong. This is why I doubt you've read your history, even Protestant history. Find anywhere in Christian history or Christian theology prior to the 1500s where this is true. 




MrsHaseeb said:


> 2 Timothy 3:15-16 KJV
> And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
> 
> Only the Bible is able to thoroughly equip us. The only reason you need Catechisms and other books is to make sense of unscriptural practices such as prayer to dead saints (necromancy), prayer beads, priests inability to marry, grace being attached to church sacraments, Mary worship, etc. None of this comes from the Bible. This is Jesus' response to people who try to worship Mary:



Again, you speak ignorance. Scripture is indeed God's Word and infallible, but the Scriptures do not say or teach sola scriptura. In fact, the Apostle's themselves in the Bible tells us to hold to their traditions, whether they be written, by word of mouth, or example. The Apostles gave us both Scripture and Apostolic Tradition.



MrsHaseeb said:


> Luke 11:27-28 KJV
> And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. [28] But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
> 
> I agree, there are many "denominations". I am not apart of any of them.



Non-denominational is still, ironically, a denomination.  



MrsHaseeb said:


> It all boils down to people interpreting the Bible with their own carnal minds versus praying and fasting to learn the mind of God like we should be doing.



Who are you to say that the Calvinist is wrong and interpreting with a carnal mind versus your interpretation? How do you know? This is the problem with the circular argument of sola scriptura and private interpretation.



MrsHaseeb said:


> The Bible warns us of this so your arguments are unfounded.



Actually, they are very logical and I even provided solid examples of why sola scriptura doesn't work.  You just choose to ignore them and throw out Scripture verses. There is a problem with saying that the Bible is the sole rule of faith, the sole interpreter of faith, when Christians bring two conflicting interpretations (both "led by the Spirit")--which one is right? 
Is the Calvinist right about free will or the Methodist?
Are the Quakers right about baptism or the Evangelical?
Are those who identify Jesus Christ as Michael the Archangel right, or those who believe Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity and full God right?
You say they are interpreting with carnal minds, they will tell YOU the same thing. Being non-denominational doesn't mean you're any more in-tuned with correct Bible understanding or interpretation. Non-denominational Protestantism is still Protestantism with Protestant roots.



MrsHaseeb said:


> What is unscriptural is Catholics sole dependence of "church" leadership to interpret the Bible for them and believing their church over sound scriptural doctrine. Ill leave with posting straight from the inspired Word of God.



Sound Scriptural doctrine? Wow, with 40,000 different ideas of "sound scriptural doctrine," you're going to have to narrow it down and tell me which one it is.


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 13, 2013)

ccd said:


> *The prophesy does say that the anti Christ would come through the last Pope of the Catholic Church.* In revelations our church is persecuted and Rome gets destroyed. Followed by wars ect.
> 
> I don't know whether true or not but the Catholic Church has been involved with unholy behaviors.  This Pope know the details also....Why is it impossible that the ushering in of the antichrist wouldn't come through the most powerful church in the world. I just don't see how one can say :"never"
> 
> ...



What prophesy is this?  What's your source?


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 13, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> Another thing to note is that "Scripture alone" is not even in Scripture. Did you know that the first Gospel was written 30 years after the Resurrection of Christ? So what did the Church do for 30 years before it had the Gospels?



Because thanks wasn't enough.


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 13, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Peter alone was not given the keys to the kingdom, all the disciples were. This is a lie from the pits of hell to give one man sole authority to make decisions.



Please quote the scripture where Christ tells _all _His disciples that they have the authority that He gave directly to Peter.  Thanks.   A closer reading of the New Testament will show that the apostles recognized Peter as "first among equals."


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 13, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> Yes it is, because it was created in the 16th Century by the Protestants, mainly, a man named Martin Luther. Not only is it ironically "man-made," but it is also un-Biblically sound.
> 
> The Word is complete, but it is not the sole source of authoritative teaching and doctrine--the Apostles' left us their oral teachings and examples as well.
> 
> ...



Galadriel, you always speak truth and wisdom.  So much knowledge in this post for those who want to hear.


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 13, 2013)

As Cardinal Newman said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."  When you _truly _seek out the history and truth of Christianity, there is NO going back.  There is no alternative.


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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 13, 2013)

Belle Du Jour said:


> Please quote the scripture where Christ tells all His disciples that they have the authority that He gave directly to Peter.  Thanks.   A closer reading of the New Testament will show that the apostles recognized Peter as "first among equals."



Matthew 18

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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 13, 2013)

I realize that people think I'm self righteous, that I refuse to see past my own perspective, that I'm overall just a mean person. I do get heated and very passionate where certain topics are concerned but its not with the intent to be mean. That said, everything I stated stands but I will cease to respond in this thread. Blessed day ladies.

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


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## BostonMaria (Feb 13, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> Matthew 18
> 
> Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF



*Matthew 18:15-20*

Please see the bolded below


15 “If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But  if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every  matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
*18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[f] loosed in heaven.*
 19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

I was spiritually set free the day I found out I had the authority to bind and loose. I am so happy that these gifts were given to all of us, not just a select few.

------------

Oh and ladies please try to be courteous to one another.


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## MrsHaseeb (Feb 13, 2013)

BostonMaria said:


> I was spiritually set free the day I found out I had the authority to bind and loose. I am so happy that these gifts were given to all of us, not just a select few.
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Oh and ladies please try to be courteous to one another.



This is the point I was trying to make. Binding and loosing is the spiritual authority given to the body of Christ, the Church, which includes all believers and not only Peter

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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 13, 2013)

Matt 16:
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 And Jesus said to *him*, “Blessed are you, *Simon Barjona*, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19“I will give *you *the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever *you *bind on earth 
shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever *you *loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”
20Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.

John 21
15 So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to *Simon Peter*, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said *to him*, “Tend My lambs.”
16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He said *to him*, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.”
17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said *to him *the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him,* “Tend My sheep."*

The Word of Christ.


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## LucieLoo12 (Feb 13, 2013)

Line upon Line, precept upon precept. We must line the word of God up. The bible does not contradict itself. That's where people can error in the word because they take one or two scriptures and build a complete doctrinal system around it and completely ignore the other scriptures.....


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## Galadriel (Feb 13, 2013)

MrsHaseeb said:


> I realize that people think I'm self righteous, that I refuse to see past my own perspective, that I'm overall just a mean person. I do get heated and very passionate where certain topics are concerned but its not with the intent to be mean. That said, everything I stated stands but I will cease to respond in this thread. Blessed day ladies.
> 
> Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF



I don't think you're self-righteous, but I do think that you've made a misstep by claiming you have read/studied Catholicism, and then proceed to bash it using the most common stereotypes and ignorant remarks.

It's one thing to state your views, it's one thing to even engage in theological debate or discussion--but all you've provided were suggestions that the pope is the anti-Christ and that Catholics commit idolatry, etc.

I have little patience when people take such an approach. There are several Protestants that disagree with my beliefs here in the forum, and they will honestly state so, and we have had very respectful exchanges. However, what they will *not* do is parrot ignorant remarks and claim that they know and study Catholicism.


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## Galadriel (Feb 13, 2013)

LucieLoo12 said:


> Line upon Line, precept upon precept. We must line the word of God up. The bible does not contradict itself. That's where people can error in the word because they take one or two scriptures and build a complete doctrinal system around it and completely ignore the other scriptures.....



Lucie, I agree that Scripture does not contradict itself  but when two Christians interpret X passage in a contradictory manner, and BOTH claim to be led by the Holy Spirit, and BOTH are claiming to use Scripture to interpret Scripture--then objectively, who is right? 

You can't go to any outside source, because you've just argued or established for yourself that Scripture is the *only* source to interpret itself.

So the Calvinist, Methodist, Anglican, Seventh Day Adventist, etc. who all believe in sola scriptura, yet all have several contradictory doctrines, are constantly locked in a circular argument from which they cannot escape.

It's basically:

"This passage means A because look at this other passage, and I'm using the Word of God and nothing else!"

"No, this passage means B because look at this other passage, and I'm using the word of God and nothing else!"

"You're taking it out of context, though."

"No, YOU'RE taking it out of context."

"But I'm using Scripture alone to come to my conclusion that this passage means A."

"But I'm using Scripture alone to come to my conclusion that this passage means B."

"Well, I'm listening to the guidance of the Holy Spirit...."

"No you're not, the Holy Spirit is guiding ME."

And so on and so forth...


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## Rsgal (Feb 13, 2013)

Galadriel said:


> Lucie, I agree that Scripture does not contradict itself  but when two Christians interpret X passage in a contradictory manner, and BOTH claim to be led by the Holy Spirit, and BOTH are claiming to use Scripture to interpret Scripture--then objectively, who is right?
> 
> You can't go to any outside source, because you've just argued or established for yourself that Scripture is the *only* source to interpret itself.
> 
> ...


 
Been avoiding posting in this thread like the plague, but i had to say:

Thank You Galadriel

This is the reason, according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, there are approximately 41,000 christian denominations and organizations in the world. 

Each claiming to be the right and only true church.


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## LivingInPeace (Feb 13, 2013)

Reading the posts and feeling the hostility in them, I'm reminded of a line in one of Woody Allen's movies, "If Christ came back down to earth and saw what was being done in his name he would never stop vomiting."


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## Belle Du Jour (Feb 13, 2013)

Cardinal Arinze's reaction to the pope's resignation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06UP2qHCxWg&feature=youtu.be

"Some people may be so shaken that it may change their perception but my hope and prayer is it will help many to get more mature in our faith.  *Our faith is not on the pope it's on Christ who is the foundation of the church.  Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.  We all are servants.  *We come and go.  Christ doesn't come and go. . .without Christ the church has no more meaning.  *The pope is a servant*. . ."

Thank you Arinze for speaking widsom.


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## LucieLoo12 (Feb 13, 2013)

Rsgal said:


> Been avoiding posting in this thread like the plague, but i had to say:
> 
> Thank You @Galadriel
> 
> ...


 


  This truly broke my heart when I read this. What happen to one faith, one hope, one Lord, one way?...(rhetorical question)....


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## Galadriel (Feb 13, 2013)

LivingInPeace said:


> Reading the posts and feeling the hostility in them, I'm reminded of a line in one of Woody Allen's movies, "If Christ came back down to earth and saw what was being done in his name he would never stop vomiting."



It's not so much as doing this or that in Christ's name, but rather having to deal with ignorance and prejudice against a particular church (Catholicism), which can come from a Protestant, but also ignorant comments can come from an an atheist, or whoever else. I have been in threads in OT where there was not only hostility, but blatant blasphemy against God and Christianity on the part of those who do not profess Christianity (or who practice a secularized watered down version of it).


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## Poohbear (Feb 13, 2013)

ccd said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fogB6nJzEQ0&sns=em
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I watched the video. Revelation 17 is an interesting chapter.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 13, 2013)

I see my thread is all off course, so I'm asking that it be closed.



ETA: The word 'ignorance' is being thrown around as if its gospel.  Why can't people have a discussion without saying that what people share is ignorant? 

Surely, we can do better than this.

You can clearly see the division in the Christianity Forum and it makes me get on my knees.  This makes me sad...so sad indeed.


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## pebbles (Feb 13, 2013)

Thank-you, ladies. Thread closed.


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