# Law of Attraction/The Secret



## tmichelle (Jul 20, 2008)

Does anyone else have an issue with this?  I was given the book The Secret and had to put it down after reading just a few pages.  It really seemed like it was telling you that you could subject God to being your genie.  That He was all powerful and that He didn't have a will but to do your will.  

Whatever happened to *Thou* will be done?

I mean, I could see the appeal in that I wanted something very badly and this told me I could get it if I just believed.  What if that wasn't God's will for me?

Thoughts?


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## song_of_serenity (Jul 20, 2008)

Wouldn't get tangled in it at all. I don't even know how people can claim to be believers in Christ and yet say they use "LOA" as a secondary thing...the devil is a crafty one.
~*Janelle~*


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## Ramya (Jul 20, 2008)

It really bothers me! It's sooo sneaky and underhanded the way it's worded. Christians are getting so caught up in that mess and don't understand where it's coming from. I read a few pages and put it down too. God's will for me, is my will for myself. Positive thinking is great and everything but LOA extends FAR beyond that


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## locabouthair (Jul 20, 2008)

This is how I feel about it.

I can understand why some Christians would be turned off by it, because LOA focuses on how *you* can change your life if you change your thoughts, actions, etc. It does put more focus on yourself rather than looking to God to get your desires.

BUT almost everything they say in the book can be traced back to the Bible.

Have you read Joel Osteen's book, *Your best life now.*

Almost everything he says in that book are principles of LOA.

_As a man thinketh so he is.

If ye have faith Nothing shall be impossible for you._
_
Life and death is in the power of the tongue._

There are others but those are a few examples.

I believe that they use the word Universe a lot in the book as marketing strategy, because everyone doesnt believe in God.


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## Demi27 (Jul 20, 2008)

locabouthair said:


> This is how I feel about it.
> 
> I can understand why some Christians would be turned off by it, because LOA focuses on how *you* can change your life if you change your thoughts, actions, etc. It does put more focus on yourself rather than looking to God to get your desires.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with this as well. I have used the LOA in the past and things have worked out for me by using it, but God was always at the forefront of everything. I never got the impression that they were saying that you and only you control your life. The message I got was that by thinking positively it will influence you to make positive actions and essentially help things to work out in your favor.  

I am able to do that because I look to God to help me make many of my choices while practicing the LOA.


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## secretdiamond (Jul 20, 2008)

locabouthair said:


> This is how I feel about it.
> 
> I can understand why some Christians would be turned off by it, because LOA focuses on how *you* can change your life if you change your thoughts, actions, etc. It does put more focus on yourself rather than looking to God to get your desires.
> 
> ...


EXACTLY.   It's a concept original to the Bible. But I don't want to get caught up in this again, so that is all.


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## Nefertiti0906 (Jul 20, 2008)

locabouthair said:


> This is how I feel about it.
> 
> I can understand why some Christians would be turned off by it, because LOA focuses on how *you* can change your life if you change your thoughts, actions, etc. It does put more focus on yourself rather than looking to God to get your desires.
> 
> ...


 
ITA.  Actually to be honest, I don't really practice LOA to the fullest extent.  I just focus on the positive thinking part but I put all my needs and wants to God and pray that His will be done.  

I do like the idea of the vision boards and the positive statements because it helps me focus on my goals; I believe practicing those regularly helps because it's imbedded in our subconsious mind and makes us more dedicated to accomplish our goals.  

For example, I liken that process to someone who's constantly told their worth nothing and then they believe it (because it's all they see and hear so it's imbedded in their subconsious) and then they end up being "nothing" because their body and mind has been conditioned.  Instead I'm replacing negative thoughts with positive ones and with pictures and statements of things I wish to accomplish.


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

locabouthair said:


> BUT almost everything they say in the book can be traced back to the Bible.


 
And THAT RIGHT THERE is the root of the enemy's seductive tactics....

Just like when the serpent approached Eve in the garden, he didn't tell Eve the (WHOLE) TRUTH about what would happen if she ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And how could the serpent/the devil tell the truth? HE CAN'T! he's the FATHER OF LIES!!!!

Genesis 3:1-7 (Amplified Bible)
1NOW THE serpent was more subtle and crafty than any living creature of the field which the Lord God had made. And he [Satan] said to the woman, Can it really be that God has said, You shall not eat from every tree of the garden?(A) 


   2And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat the fruit from the trees of the garden, 

    3Except the fruit from the tree which is in the middle of the garden. *God has said, You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die. *

*    4But the serpent said to the woman, You shall not surely die,(B) *

*5For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, AND YOU WILL BE LIKE GOD (see the big red flag there?), knowing the difference between good and evil and blessing and calamity. *

    6And when the woman saw that the tree was good (suitable, pleasant) for food and that it was delightful to look at, and a tree to be desired in order to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she gave some also to her husband, and he ate.  
    7Then the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves apronlike girdles.​Well, we know what happened to Adam and Eve after they ate of that fruit. They did die: A SPIRITUAL DEATH.

LOA sounds attractive but it's not the whole truth, esp. for the Bible-believing Christian. It removes the Lordship of the Lord God Almighty and puts ALL THE OWNERSHIP of life on the person who walks in that vein. And because the Lord is a GENTLEMAN, a gentle, kind Savior, He is NOT going to push His way into anyone's life. He gave us free will so we will FREELY CHOOSE to submit to Him. Every single Christian should RUN in the opposite direction from anything that ignores or tries to replace the Lordship of the Lord God Almighty with something else, even if that something else is YOU.

We need to stop doing "us" as LOA says and start saying and doing the WORD OF GOD!

I'm passionate about this 'cause I almost got seduced into this and I cannot stand liars!


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## Cinda2503 (Jul 20, 2008)

I believe that my will and God's will is the same.  God puts the thought/desire into your heart.mind.    Without God's will I would not have thought, the desire, the plan to accomplish my/his/our goals.  God is at the forefront of my thinking.  God will make a way. He will define a path for me. However, I still have to put in the work hence the phrase "Pray and move your feet"

LOA is the move your feet part. - In my mind, you pray to God, he gives you instructions.  If you are listening to him and following his word then things in your life begin to line you and you see the path HE has chosen for you by the people you meet, the signs you see on the street, the songs onthe radio etc..... and that is the arraction part.  For me, there is no difference.  If God truly directs your steps/thoughts/actions/feelings and you are focused on GOD and positivity...the "devil" should have no impact on your life.

LOA works every single time whether you believe it or not.  Whether the outcome is good or bad, whether you are focus on GOD and his plan for you or you are indifferent to God's plan for you.


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## MizzBrown (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh my gosh this is interesting!  I just found out not too long ago what LOA even stood for. I never got into it, pursued it, got an interest in it but to hear what it really is, i'm glad i didnt get swayed into it.

This was that book that was featured on The Oprah Show and whatnot? I never watched the episodes. I never quite understood the hype and from the start it seemed really self-helpish or something. Just didnt sit right with me.


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## Highly Favored8 (Jul 20, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> And THAT RIGHT THERE is the root of the enemy's seductive tactics....
> 
> Just like when the serpent approached Eve in the garden, he didn't tell Eve the (WHOLE) TRUTH about what would happen if she ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And how could the serpent/the devil tell the truth? HE CAN'T! he's the FATHER OF LIES!!!!
> 
> ...


 



Amen!

What this does is that They Take God out of everything. Read many stories of the Bible when people take God and place themselves higher than God. Look what God does to people who do this. The devil is a lair and he is slick and cunning however, we as Christians must use the Power Of Discernment that God has Blessed us with to use it all times. I like postive thinking and use it all the time. I Place God and his word first!


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## MizzBrown (Jul 20, 2008)

I remember i did watch a clip of that show on Oprah. A woman said that she would go down a street in her car and she would "will" herself and think positive and she would get an open parking space.

She said it was all LOA. She thought it and it was done because she sensed it and the parking alot attracted itself to her.

I dont know. When i look for a parking space and finally get one, the first thing i do when i put the gear in park is say "thank you Jesus!" and "God wanted me to have that space today". 

I dont use my "telepathic ways" to get something. Just my thoughts.....this is still interesting!


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

Cinda2503 said:


> I believe that my will and God's will is the same. God puts the thought/desire into your heart.mind. Without God's will I would not have thought, the desire, the plan to accomplish my/his/our goals. God is at the forefront of my thinking. God will make a way. He will define a path for me. However, I still have to put in the work hence the phrase "Pray and move your feet"
> 
> speaking generally: we have free will to align our will to the Lord's will. But there are plenty of times when this does not happen. There are three voices speaking to us: the Lord, the devil, and our own voice. That's why the Bible says "my sheep hear my voice, and a stranger they will not follow". Why? because it's not automatic that we would know (and listen and obey) the voice of the Lord. That comes with spending time with the Lord to know and sense His lead and guidance.
> 
> ...


 
I ask again, this way: Is the Lord's guidance, lordship, covering, enough?


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

MizzBrown said:


> I remember i did watch a clip of that show on Oprah. A woman said that she would go down a street in her car and she would "will" herself and think positive and she would get an open parking space.
> 
> She said it was all LOA. The thought it and it was done because she sensed it and the parking alot attracted itself to her.
> 
> ...


 
My pastor preached a message based on this scripture:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=26&verse=22&version=31&context=verse
22 He moved on from there and dug another well, and no one quarreled over it. He named it Rehoboth, [a] saying, "Now the LORD has given us room and we will flourish in the land."

*Footnotes:* 
Genesis 26:22 _Rehoboth _means _room _.
So when I need/want a close parking space, I say "REHOBOTH!" I send the word REHOBOTH before me....  Amen....

And then some days the Lord works it out so that I can get in some much-needed exercise!


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## Cinda2503 (Jul 20, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> I ask again, this way: Is the Lord's guidance, lordship, covering, enough?


 

Of course it is enough.  LOA is in effect, working, whether you accept the *term *or not.  LOA is not new it has always been. "The secret/The Law of attraction" are marketing and language tools.  The term LOA is human derived. The actual principle of it is divine.  There is nobody but God who would have put such an awesome principle in place on this earth.   It is all based on free will.  If you are committed and focusesd on God and all that is good - you will receive it. If you are committed and focused on the devil and all that is bad -you will recieve it.  If you are committed to indifference and are lukewarm to God -you will receive that.


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## Keen (Jul 20, 2008)

To me this is what LOA amount to: 

Matthew 7:7  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8  For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

If you read the bible, God is the provider of all your needs. God rule the universe. I think the people who wrote the secret twisted it to focus on "the universe" and take out God to be mainstream and appealing.


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## Keen (Jul 20, 2008)

Cinda2503 said:


> Of course it is enough.  LOA is in effect, working, whether you accept the *term *or not.  LOA is not new it has always been. "The secret/The Law of attraction" are marketing and language tools.  The term LOA is human derived. The actual principle of it is divine.  There is nobody but God who would have put such an awesome principle in place on this earth.   It is all based on free will.  If you are committed and focusesd on God and all that is good - you will receive it. If you are committed and focused on the devil and all that is bad -you will recieve it.  If you are committed to indifference and are lukewarm to God -you will receive that.



Well said.


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## Highly Favored8 (Jul 20, 2008)

Keen said:


> To me this is what LOA amount to:
> 
> Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
> 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
> ...


 

Yes, this is what I said when these same people who were on Oprah. Who took God out it and put their own mis-interpertation of God's word in the Bible.


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

Cinda2503 said:


> Of course it is enough. LOA is in effect, working, whether you accept the *term *or not. LOA is not new it has always been. "The secret/The Law of attraction" are marketing and language tools. *The term LOA is human derived. The actual principle of it is divine.* There is nobody but God who would have put such an awesome principle in place on this earth. It is all based on free will. If you are committed and focusesd on God and all that is good - you will receive it. If you are committed and focused on the devil and all that is bad -you will recieve it. If you are committed to indifference and are lukewarm to God -you will receive that.


 
Do you see the contradiction between the two bolded sentences? How can something human produce something divine? I think by noting that the term LOA is human derived makes it SEEM harmless. But I say again that ANYTHING put in REPLACEMENT of the acknowledgement, recognition, the GLORY of Lord Jesus Christ is HARMFUL. Even a simple phrase.

The bolded statement reminds me of the Israelites when they were in the wilderness and Moses was with the Lord on Mount Sinai in Exodus 32:
 When the people saw how long it was taking Moses to come back down the mountain, they gathered around Aaron. “Come on,” they said, *“make us some gods who can lead us. *We don’t know what happened to this fellow Moses, who brought us here from the land of Egypt.” (this is what happens when we get IMPATIENT; the people got tired of waiting on Moses)


 2 So Aaron said, “*Take the gold rings* from the ears of your wives and sons and daughters, and bring them to me.”  3 All the people took the gold rings from their ears and brought them to Aaron. 4 Then Aaron took the gold, melted it down, and molded it into the shape of a calf. When the people saw it, they exclaimed, “O Israel, these are the gods who brought you out of the land of Egypt!” 
(They used rings THEY MADE THEMSELVES!!erplexed and the rings they made themselves became their god? That's like me taking my (healthy) shed hair out of my brush and making a statue from the hair to worship it so my hair can grow!!!spinning:)

 5 Aaron saw how excited the people were, so he built an altar in front of the calf. Then he announced, “Tomorrow will be a festival to the Lord!”  6 The people got up early the next morning to sacrifice burnt offerings and peace offerings. After this, they celebrated with feasting and drinking, and they indulged in pagan revelry. (and then after they made their OWN god, they want to switch it around to make it look like it's in honor of the LORD?  And as we read the following verses, the LORD WAS NOT HAVING THAT!)

 7 The Lord told Moses, “Quick! Go down the mountain! Your people whom you brought from the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves. 8 *How quickly they have turned away from the way I commanded them to live! They have melted down gold and made a calf, and they have bowed down and sacrificed to it. They are saying, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you out of the land of Egypt.’” *

 9 Then the Lord said, *“I have seen how stubborn and rebellious these people are.* 10 Now leave me alone so my fierce anger can blaze against them, *and I will destroy them.* Then I will make you, Moses, into a great nation.” (The LORD was DONE with these folk and was planning to kill them and start a new nation with Moses because Moses DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THAT FOOLISHNESS! But Moses interceded for the people. That's what a true leader does.)

 11 But Moses tried to pacify the Lord his God. “O Lord!” he said. “Why are you so angry with your own people whom you brought from the land of Egypt with such great power and such a strong hand? 12 Why let the Egyptians say, ‘Their God rescued them with the evil intention of slaughtering them in the mountains and wiping them from the face of the earth’? Turn away from your fierce anger. Change your mind about this terrible disaster you have threatened against your people! 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.[a] You bound yourself with an oath to them, saying, ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars of heaven. And I will give them all of this land that I have promised to your descendants, and they will possess it forever.’” 

 14 So the Lord changed his mind about the terrible disaster he had threatened to bring on his people. 

 15 Then Moses turned and went down the mountain. He held in his hands the two stone tablets inscribed with the terms of the covenant.[b] They were inscribed on both sides, front and back. 16 These tablets were God’s work; the words on them were written by God himself. 

 17 When Joshua heard the boisterous noise of the people shouting below them, he exclaimed to Moses, “It sounds like war in the camp!” 

 18 But Moses replied, “No, it’s not a shout of victory nor the wailing of defeat. I hear the sound of a celebration.” 
 19 When they came near the camp, *Moses saw the calf and the dancing, and he burned with anger.* He threw the stone tablets to the ground, smashing them at the foot of the mountain. 20 He took the calf they had made and burned it. Then he ground it into powder, threw it into the water, and forced the people to drink it.​So I noted all of that to remind us what the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY SAYS: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME! And LOA says that you are a "type of god, like God" WRONG! OUT OF ORDER! Especially for anybody calling themselves a Bible-believing disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ!

You said: "there is nobody but God who would have put such an awesome principle in place on this earth." Why would the Lord put something on earth when He already 1) created the earth; 2) came to earth in an earthsuit HIMSELF and redeemed us; and 3) left the COMFORTER (HOLY SPIRIT) to GUIDE us. Not we guiding ourselves through LOA.

John 14:26: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you...."

So again, why the need for LOA? Isn't the Holy Spirit enough?


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## Cinda2503 (Jul 20, 2008)

Frankly speaking, the name/word/term God has been so mis-used in this world so much.  His name has been used to justify every right and every wrong thought/feeling/action that has ever been or that ever will be.   While we are in these physical bodies with this human minds and all that means - the name God can turn people off to his message.  That is why there are THOUSANDS of names for the same thing.  You can call God:  him, he, her, Jesus, The spirit, the soul, the light, the rock, allah, yahweh, the father, the son, the holy spirit, the word, the lord, my shephard, the universe, the divine, I AM, etc... etc... etc....  it all means the same thing.


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

Cinda2503 said:


> Frankly speaking, the name/word/term God has been so mis-used in this world so much. His name has been used to justify every right and every wrong thought/feeling/action that has ever been or that ever will be. While we are in these physical bodies with this human minds and all that means - the name God can turn people off to his message. That is why there are THOUSANDS of names for the same thing. You can call God: him, he, her, Jesus, The spirit, the soul, the light, the rock, allah, yahweh, the father, the son, the holy spirit, the word, the lord, my shephard, the universe, the divine, I AM, etc... etc... etc.... it all means the same thing. God doesn't get caught up in the semantics. It's all about the message.


 
As for me, you'll see in my posts that I say "LORD JESUS CHRIST". I'm being very purposeful about that.


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## Cinda2503 (Jul 20, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Do you see the contradiction between the two bolded sentences? How can something human produce something divine? I think by noting that the term LOA is human derived makes it SEEM harmless. *But I say again that ANYTHING put in REPLACEMENT of the acknowledgement, recognition, the GLORY of Lord Jesus Christ is HARMFUL. Even a simple phrase.*
> 
> 
> quote]
> ...


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

Cinda2503 said:


> FoxyScholar said:
> 
> 
> > Do you see the contradiction between the two bolded sentences? How can something human produce something divine? I think by noting that the term LOA is human derived makes it SEEM harmless. *But I say again that ANYTHING put in REPLACEMENT of the acknowledgement, recognition, the GLORY of Lord Jesus Christ is HARMFUL. Even a simple phrase.*
> ...


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## Cinda2503 (Jul 20, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> As for me, you'll see in my posts that I say "LORD JESUS CHRIST". I'm being very purposeful about that.


 

I say God.  But other people might say, you know...whatever else they feel comfortable with that show their sacredness for  God.


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

Cinda2503 said:


> I say God. But other people might say, you know...whatever else they feel comfortable with that show their sacredness for God.


 
Well, in order to have a conversation it does help to know where/how people are defining such perspectives. And if a person is a Bible-believing Christian, then their "god" should have a name. There are lots of "gods" out there. Which one is being referred to?

Just like there are lots of fathers out there.... if I'm in a crowd with a lot of men who are fathers and I want my father, I have to call MY FATHER'S NAME SPECIFICALLY: (Jesse)....


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## Cinda2503 (Jul 20, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Cinda2503 said:
> 
> 
> > Partially. The Lord Jesus Christ is EVERYWHERE but he's not in EVERYTHING because of MAN and man's free will.
> ...


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## Cinda2503 (Jul 20, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Well, in order to have a conversation it does help to know where/how people are defining such perspectives. And if a person is a Bible-believing Christian, then their "god" should have a name. *There are lots of "gods" out there. Which one is being referred to?*
> 
> Just like there are lots of fathers out there.... if I'm in a crowd with a lot of men who are fathers and I want my father, I have to call MY FATHER'S NAME SPECIFICALLY: (Jesse)....


 

I only believe in one God.  I only think there is one.  I don't think they're many "gods" out there.


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## Country gal (Jul 20, 2008)

I am reading heal your life. It talks about the universe. I trade out universe for God. When the blessings manifest, I attriubute it to God answering my prayers not the universe.


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

Cinda2503 said:


> FoxyScholar said:
> 
> 
> > ITA! I belive he is everywhere and he is in everything that *I* do. But he may not the leader in everything that other's may choose to do.  I'm onyl speaking from my perspective.
> ...


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

Cinda2503 said:


> I only believe in one God. I only think there is one. I don't think they're many "gods" out there.


 
The Bible says there are "other" gods.... Or else why would the first of the 10 Commandments say: "3Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:3)?

Other scriptures that address "other" gods. The scripture in Acts refers to "strange" gods. Here's the link at biblegatway.com that lists the scriptures re. "other gods":

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=other gods&version1=9&searchtype=phrase

Here's the first of the three pages of scriptures:


*Exodus 23:13*
And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of *other gods*, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.
Exodus 23:12-14 (in Context) Exodus 23 (Whole Chapter)
*Deuteronomy 5:7*
Thou shalt have none *other gods* before me.
Deuteronomy 5:6-8 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
*Deuteronomy 6:14*
Ye shall not go after *other gods*, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
Deuteronomy 6:13-15 (in Context) Deuteronomy 6 (Whole Chapter)
*Deuteronomy 7:4*
For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve *other gods*: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
Deuteronomy 7:3-5 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)
*Deuteronomy 8:19*
And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after *other gods*, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.
Deuteronomy 8:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 8 (Whole Chapter)
*Deuteronomy 11:16*
Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve *other gods*, and worship them;
Deuteronomy 11:15-17 (in Context) Deuteronomy 11 (Whole Chapter)
*Deuteronomy 11:28*
And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after *other gods*, which ye have not known.
Deuteronomy 11:27-29 (in Context) Deuteronomy 11 (Whole Chapter)
*Deuteronomy 13:2*
And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after *other gods*, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deuteronomy 13:1-3 (in Context) Deuteronomy 13 (Whole Chapter)
*Deuteronomy 13:6*
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve *other gods*, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Deuteronomy 13:5-7 (in Context) Deuteronomy 13 (Whole Chapter)
*Deuteronomy 13:13*
Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve *other gods*, which ye have not known;
Deuteronomy 13:12-14 (in Context) Deuteronomy 13 (Whole Chapter)


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## Cinda2503 (Jul 20, 2008)

FoxyScholar,

Thanks for answering my question.  Your Adam and Eve example was great  I have enjoyed this exchange  So long.........


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## janiebaby (Jul 20, 2008)

tyefrmy said:


> I agree with this as well. I have used the LOA in the past and things have worked out for me by using it, but God was always at the forefront of everything. I never got the impression that they were saying that you and only you control your life. The message I got was that by thinking positively it will influence you to make positive actions and essentially help things to work out in your favor.
> 
> I am able to do that because I look to God to help me make many of my choices while practicing the LOA.


 
That's what I thought until I signed up for one of the telephone workshops and they said something like "so mote it be" which is something pagans say. After that, I ditched it.


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## leeshbeesh (Jul 20, 2008)

We happened to watch this in one of my counseling classes and I was one of the few oddballs who was like "ummm no!! " I am very passionate about this one and I cannot even gather my thoughts to comment properly...but ugh this is the Devil at his best...absolute tom foolery


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## He_Leads_I_follow (Jul 20, 2008)

LOA or Law of Attraction is a dangerous concept and even delusional. 
One of the contibuters to the book A New Earth was asked on Larry King live, if LOA is real what about the 9 year old girl that was raped and murdered? Did she ask for it? He said we are what we attract. In other words , yes!

Are you kidding me?! What shameful wickedness! 

Please, you cannot sit "wishin' and a hopin' " for something and it just come to you without you working for it. If God says you will be wealthy, you will have to be diligent in work for it to happen. 

It sounds like that "name it and claim it" nonsense. Yet another preversion of Yahweh's truth.


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## MizzBrown (Jul 20, 2008)

He_Leads_I_follow said:


> LOA or Law of Attraction is a dangerous concept and even delusional.
> One of the contibuters to the book A New Earth was asked on Larry King live, if LOA is real what about the 9 year old girl that was raped and murdered? *Did she ask for it? He said we are what we attract. In other words , yes!*
> 
> Are you kidding me?! What shameful wickedness!
> ...


 
 No he didn't! This is tomfoolery. What is wrong with Oprah for entertaining this mess?


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## remnant (Jul 20, 2008)

John 14:6
*Jesus sayth unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life : no man cometh to the Father, but by me.*

This is true for *Christ*ians at least....none offense...


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## He_Leads_I_follow (Jul 20, 2008)

MizzBrown said:


> No he didn't! This is tomfoolery. What is wrong with Oprah for entertaining this mess?


 
What's wrong with Oprah?!  

Oprah is falling for the trick like everyone else. She's as off as off can get. I knew it was time to turn her off once she started inviting that guy that "speaks to the dead". Please! She's in hollywood sis, so when in Rome... 

It's the Oprahfication of Christianity. Just see and do it. It can be yours. Feel empowered blah blah. Her lame doctrine is as "me centered" and "feel good about you" as Joel Osteen. 
Please!


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## MrsQueeny (Jul 20, 2008)

Hmm I have friends who follow this and I just scratch my head. Why would I ask the universe for something when God who created the universe could give it to me? That's like going to Ford to get a brand new Honda when I could go straight to the Honda dealership. I laugh because "some" of the things people attribute to LOA isn't that at all. For instance, I got a raise. Okay well you worked hard, did what you were supposed too, applied and got it. Now if you were a lazy, unreliable worker, that would make it a shock. All that I want and need, I get from God and God alone. I also have issues with the author of The Secret and her/his views on things that happen to people especially little kids. I have more to say but I will leave it at that.  I am living proof of what God can do if you just trust in Him and Him alone. Remember, the devil takes care of his own as well so don't fall for his tricks. Take care ladies. Q


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## tmichelle (Jul 20, 2008)

I've enjoyed reading the dialogue.  Thanks so much for your thoughts.  One thing that never sat right with me while reading a portion of The Secret was what to do about all of God's servants.  When I think back on many prophets of the Old Testament like Jonah, Elijah, Jeremiah and on the people of faith listed in Hebrews, I know God was pleased with them because He says so in His Word.  These people didn't fit the outcome of the Law of Attraction.  They did not attract bad things to themselves (in fact in Hebrews it says the world was not worthy of them), they did not find easy parking spaces (I mean some of them were sawn in two!).  No matter how positive they thought, God had plans for them and they did not include getting everything on their list because they believed.  

But from my understanding of the LOA and The Secret, these people "attracted" bad things to them and they should have been more into their own will than God's then maybe they would have had an easier life because God would have been forced to abandon His plan for them to give them what they wanted instead.

These verses were also quoted somewhere on this thread and I think they are great so I'll quote them again.  Unfortunately they are often taken out of context.  Here they are in a little bit more of their context:

 7"(F)Ask, and (G)it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 

 8"For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 
 9"Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? 
 10"Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? 
 11"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, (H)how much more will your *Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!*  12"In everything, (I)therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for (J)this is the Law and the Prophets. 

I bolded the end of verse 11.  The Father gives us good gifts, but I am not convinced we all know what good gifts actually are.  We may think they are a parking space, a raise, a new home, but unless they come from God they are not good.  That parking space can put you in the way of a burglary or someone who has a ton of kids with them and who needs it more has to park far away, or perhaps that old person who parked across from you is going to bump your car.  That raise can be spent on things you desire and keep your mind from focusing on God, or it can ruin the dynamics of your household (this happened when I was a child but I won't go into it now).  That new home can be something other than what God wants for your life.

Unless you say, "your will be done" how does one know if it is a good gift?


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## Ramya (Jul 20, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> I've enjoyed reading the dialogue. Thanks so much for your thoughts. One thing that never sat right with me while reading a portion of The Secret was what to do about all of God's servants. When I think back on many prophets of the Old Testament like Jonah, Elijah, Jeremiah and on the people of faith listed in Hebrews, I know God was pleased with them because He says so in His Word. These people didn't fit the outcome of the Law of Attraction. They did not attract bad things to themselves (in fact in Hebrews it says the world was not worthy of them), they did not find easy parking spaces (I mean some of them were sawn in two!). No matter how positive they thought, God had plans for them and they did not include getting everything on their list because they believed.
> 
> But from my understanding of the LOA and The Secret, these people "attracted" bad things to them and they should have been more into their own will than God's then maybe they would have had an easier life because God would have been forced to abandon His plan for them to give them what they wanted instead.
> 
> ...


 
I love your breakdown on this!  I know even in my own life that I want things that are not in God's will for me. They seem to be_ good_ things but they are not good for me. I will gladly choose God's will over mine b/c He knows not only what I want but also what I need.


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## PaperClip (Jul 20, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> I've enjoyed reading the dialogue. Thanks so much for your thoughts. One thing that never sat right with me while reading a portion of The Secret was what to do about all of God's servants. When I think back on many prophets of the Old Testament like Jonah, Elijah, Jeremiah and on the people of faith listed in Hebrews, I know God was pleased with them because He says so in His Word. These people didn't fit the outcome of the Law of Attraction. They did not attract bad things to themselves (in fact in Hebrews it says the world was not worthy of them), they did not find easy parking spaces (I mean some of them were sawn in two!). No matter how positive they thought, God had plans for them and they did not include getting everything on their list because they believed.
> 
> But from my understanding of the LOA and The Secret, these people "attracted" bad things to them and they should have been more into their own will than God's then maybe they would have had an easier life because God would have been forced to abandon His plan for them to give them what they wanted instead.
> 
> ...


 

Operative term in your bolded statement: YOUR FATHER who is in Heaven....

Are people who are asking the Lord for these good things actually BELONG TO THE LORD? Who is the daddy? The Lord becomes "OUr Father, who art in Heaven" when we WILLINGLY give our life over to Him. Otherwise, the father one may be asking things from is the devil....

John 8:43-45 (Amplified)

43Why do you misunderstand what I say? It is because you are unable to hear what I am saying. [You cannot bear to listen to My message; your ears are shut to My teaching.] 

    44*You are of your father, the devil, and it is your will to practice the lusts and gratify the desires [which are characteristic] of your father.* He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a falsehood, he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar [himself] and the father of lies and of all that is false. 
     45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me [do not trust ]Me, do not rely on Me, or adhere to Me].


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## He_Leads_I_follow (Jul 20, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Operative term in your bolded statement: YOUR FATHER who is in Heaven....
> 
> Are people who are asking the Lord for these good things actually BELONG TO THE LORD? Who is the daddy? The Lord becomes "OUr Father, who art in Heaven" when we WILLINGLY give our life over to Him. Otherwise, the father one may be asking things from is the devil....
> 
> ...


 
 Well said!


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## tmichelle (Jul 20, 2008)

amerikan said:


> I love your breakdown on this!  I know even in my own life that I want things that are not in God's will for me. They seem to be_ good_ things but they are not good for me. I will gladly choose God's will over mine b/c He knows not only what I want but also what I need.


 
I have struggled with wanting my own will for soooo long.  It has not been easy and I still struggle.  I am supposed to have died to myself and be living for Christ but I seem to constantly want to resurrect myself. erplexed



FoxyScholar said:


> Operative term in your bolded statement: YOUR FATHER who is in Heaven....
> 
> Are people who are asking the Lord for these good things actually BELONG TO THE LORD? Who is the daddy? The Lord becomes "OUr Father, who art in Heaven" when we WILLINGLY give our life over to Him. Otherwise, the father one may be asking things from is the devil....
> 
> ...


 
Which brings to mind a verse further down in Matt. 7


 21"(R)Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 
 22"(S)Many will say to Me on (T)that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'  23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; (U)DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' 

It seems to me that Christ is saying that we have to do the will of Christ's Father which will exclude both our own will and any other father, otherwise it is lawlessness.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jul 21, 2008)

Cinda2503 said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Do you know that our will is actually stronger than God's?

Let me explain.  

God's will for us is that we live a holy life that is pleasing to Him.  His will for us also is that we serve Him with all of our being (spirit, soul and body).

However, we don't.  We do what we want to do, even when we know to do what is right, we still do what is not, and because of that, our "will" becomes stronger than God's.

This can help to explain it as well.  Here, the Apostle Paul describes "our will" and what it does:

Romans 4: 14-25 (Message-I found this to be a good translation to explain it)

_14-16   __I can anticipate the response that is coming: "I know that all God's commands are spiritual, but I'm not. Isn't this also your experience?" Yes. I'm full of myself—after all, I've spent a long time in sin's prison. *What I don't understand about myself is that I decide one way, but then I act another, doing things I absolutely despise*. So if I can't be trusted to figure out what is best for myself and then do it, it becomes obvious that God's command is necessary. _


_ 17-20   But I need something more! For if I know the law but still can't keep it, and if the power of sin within me keeps sabotaging my best intentions, I obviously need help! I realize that I don't have what it takes. *I can will it, but I can't do it. I decide to do good, but I don't really do it; I decide not to do bad, but then I do it anyway. My decisions, such as they are, don't result in actions. Something has gone wrong deep within me and gets the better of me every time. *_

_ 21-23  It happens so regularly that it's predictable. The moment I decide to do good, sin is there to trip me up. *I truly delight in God's commands, but it's pretty obvious that not all of me joins in that delight*. *Parts of me covertly rebel, and just when I least expect it, they take charge.* _

_ 24   *I've tried everything and nothing helps*. I'm at the end of my rope. Is there no one who can do anything for me? Isn't that the real question? _ 
_ 25   The answer, thank God, is that *Jesus Christ can and does*. *He acted to set things right in this life of contradictions where I want to serve God with all my heart and mind, but am pulled by the influence of sin to do something totally different. *_



Therefore, our will and God's will is not the same.

Now, the highlighted blue shows that LOA can't do anything for you.  It's a concept that man created to try to help himself out of these same situations as quoted from the Apostle Paul, but it doesn't.  Only Jesus Christ Himself can deliver us from ourselves...whether we want to believe it or not...that's just the way it is.

LOA has no place in the life of a true believer.  We don't need it...it can't do anything for us but bring about confusion, which it was designed to do anyway.  A true believer in Jesus Christ knows the Shepherd's voice, and the voice of a stranger they will not follow.

I pray that we ALL learn to hear the Holy Spirit's voice and know that He will teach us ALL things that comes from the Father, that we may not be blown by every wind of doctrine and that we shall be planted and our roots will be strong, like the palm tree, so that when the winds come and blow, we will not be moved...we will remain strong and vigilant, prayerful and follow the One in whom we have to do!

In love, always.

N&W

ETA: And to make clear, when I say "God", I'm speaking of the God of the Bible!!!


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## cocoberry10 (Jul 21, 2008)

locabouthair said:


> This is how I feel about it.
> 
> I can understand why some Christians would be turned off by it, because LOA focuses on how *you* can change your life if you change your thoughts, actions, etc. It does put more focus on yourself rather than looking to God to get your desires.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with your post, especially the red. What makes me laugh the most about these "New Age" scholars, is that people are making them millionaires off of principles God gave us FREE OF CHARGE. However, some of them are "twisting" the word, but for the most part a lot of the "principles" are nothing more than what God already promised us (FOR FREE)


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## chocolatechiq (Jul 21, 2008)

Queeny20 said:


> Why would I ask the universe for something when God who created the universe could give it to me? T



Growing up in a strict religious household (although I am not following it now),
the best way for me to understand much of the LOA / Secret thing and many other POV's as I've gotten older is to consider God as the Universe....if I look at God as infinitely expanding everywhere, then He would be the universe.

BTW, for me personally, it is not necessary to follow everything in a doctrine or philosophy, for example The Secret, to pull out the important "true" parts.

To me the most important thing is realizing what you are focusing on and if you are not happy change  your focus.  I am sure everyone knows negative people, whether they are Christian or not, who are always focusing on the negative and how bad things are...being around them makes you feel bad.  So if a person focuses on what is good in their life, i.e. what God/The Universe has given them, it will only bring more goodness.

That's my interpretation.


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## mrsmeredith (Jul 21, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Well, in order to have a conversation it does help to know where/how people are defining such perspectives. And if a person is a Bible-believing Christian, then their "god" should have a name. There are lots of "gods" out there. Which one is being referred to?
> 
> * Just like there are lots of fathers out there.... if I'm in a crowd with a lot of men who are fathers and I want my father, I have to call MY FATHER'S NAME SPECIFICALLY: (Jesse)....*


*

*P R E A CH ...... that says it all.    I cannot tell you what that one phrase shook in me.  God is my awesome GOD, my Savior Jesus christ and my helper the holy ghost.


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## Country gal (Jul 21, 2008)

amerikan said:


> I love your breakdown on this!  I know even in my own life that I want things that are not in God's will for me. They seem to be_ good_ things but they are not good for me. I will gladly choose God's will over mine b/c He knows not only what I want but also what I need.



How do we know it is God's will? Will you say well if you pray and mediate, you get the blessing than it is from God. It is similar principle to law of attraction.


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## Country gal (Jul 21, 2008)

chocolatechiq said:


> Growing up in a strict religious household (although I am not following it now),
> the best way for me to understand much of the LOA / Secret thing and many other POV's as I've gotten older is to consider God as the Universe....if I look at God as infinitely expanding everywhere, then He would be the universe.
> 
> BTW, for me personally, it is not necessary to follow everything in a doctrine or philosophy, for example The Secret, to pull out the important "true" parts.
> ...



Me too. At night I spend time thanking God for the goodness in my life. I don't thank the universe.


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## PaperClip (Jul 21, 2008)

Country gal said:


> How do we know it is God's will? Will you say well if you pray and mediate, you get the blessing than it is from God. It is similar principle to law of attraction.


 
First, we know the Lord's will by reading His Word, by finding out, through the BIBLE, what He likes and dislikes, what He permits and forbids, what things are good for us and what things are not. As Nice & Wavy said, our FREE will is exactly that, and the Lord is not going to override our free will, just like the Lord did not override Adam and Eve in the Garden when He had already told them not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He told them not to do it, but they did. And the consequences were as such.

Maybe if Adam and Eve had stopped and prayed before they ate the fruit, they would have been REMINDED of what the Lord said about that tree and then they would have remained in the Lord's (divine) will for their lives. It is in our best interest to align ourselves to the Lord's will, which He has outlined in the Word of God (the Bible).

Praying and meditating to the Lord Jesus Christ is NOTHING similar to LOA. Why? Because The Lord Jesus Christ is not Santa Claus and He should not be treated as such. The Lord wants RELATIONSHIP with each and every one of us. It's not about "gimmie gimmie gimmie". I can pray to the Lord for some things that are not in His will...I can also not pray about those things and I can make them happen myself. Will I be in the will of the Lord? NOPE. But I can do that because I have free will. However, in my free will, I FREELY CHOOSE to submit myself under the Lordship of the Lord Jesus Christ to say "not my will, but THY will be done" in my life. I CHOOSE to say "Lord, I want this or that" and if the Lord says "no, daughter" or "not at this time", I have to trust the Lord that that's what best for me. And, I can hold the Lord ACCOUNTABLE for what He said because the Lord is the keeper of His word. He is faithful.

Better yet, it is better to say "Lord, what do You think about this?" or "I was thinking about getting that" or "should I move to this place". This approach shows my trust, faith, and submission to the Lord in that I know He thinks good thoughts toward me, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give an expected end" (Jeremiah 29:11).

The "universe" as a source of anything is ambiguous. Who is the universe accountable to?


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## Shimmie (Jul 22, 2008)

locabouthair said:


> This is how I feel about it.
> 
> I can understand why some Christians would be turned off by it, because LOA focuses on how *you* can change your life if you change your thoughts, actions, etc. It does put more focus on yourself rather than looking to God to get your desires.
> 
> ...


For this cause alone, it is extremely dangerous and Christians --- serious Christians know better.

No man can serve two masters.  It's one or the other.  God has made it plain, that He will have no other God before Him.   

The LOA isn't new.  It's witchcraft; man exerting his will over God's will; or basically 'overriding God' to man's preferences/desires.

Don't justify it with Joel Osteen nor anyone else.  If you've used it you were in sin and nothing short of it.  You wanted something that God wasn't moving fast enough to do for you.  It's just that simple.  

Another thing.....Joel Osteen is NOT using the principles of LOA.... (Geesh! )  Stop giving the devil credit for what God has created.  

The LOA fools and demons have plagerized *God's* Bibilical principles and have called them their own and have only given God credit when it's convenient for them profit wise.   

From day one, when satan tried to place himself above God and failed, he has always taken what God has created and tried to make Himself the hero and the banner.  And fools will follow him each and every time.

There is nothing in this life neither in this world that any of us can accomplish without God.   Leave the witchcraft alone.  Not once have I ever knelt and asked God for something, has He ever denied nor failed me.

The only thing He ever asked us to do was 'Believe".  

Stay away from witchcraft!  What price your life?  What in this world could anyone possibly want from the hand of satan, when God has already given us all.   This life and what's in it is our inheritance just for being a child of the most High God.  We are His children and He will not deny us. 

To those who are Christians who defend LOA, what in hell is it that you want, when all that you could ever need God is willing to give it to you and He has.  

Stay away from witchcraft --------- self will.


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## PaperClip (Jul 22, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> For this cause alone, it is extremely dangerous and Christians --- serious Christians know better.
> 
> No man can serve two masters. It's one or the other. God has made it plain, that He will have no other God before Him.
> 
> ...


 
That's telling it like it is!

Plagiarize/plagiarism is an EXCELLENT word to describe the secret.... 

Good word, Shimmie!


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## username12 (Jul 22, 2008)

Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyers is an excellent read.  It's LOA with a Biblical perspective.  Everything is supported in the Bible.

LOA is not the 'devil.'  All it says is you get what you think.  That is exactly the same as "For as he thinks in his heart, so it he." Proverbs 23:7.  We can be Christian and follows God's word, but if we don't have the right mindset, then our blessings will be blocked.  

I'm Christian who is trying to reform my thought.  I would pray to God and have faith, but still my life would be miserable because I didn't have any faith in _myself._ 

As Christains, many of us are taught to "suffer."  That's what I was taught at my church growing up.  I learned that Christians should suffer, and if you are not suffering now, then be prepared, because you will suffer soon.   So if things were going well in my life, I would self-satotage because that's what I thought God wanted for me.

But I was wrong, God wants us to be happy and prosper.  His Will is to encourage us and to prosper us.  So to me, the law of attraction is God's law.  God can't prosper us if we are thinking negatively, or think that we don't deserve God's blessings.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jul 23, 2008)

sistas4longhair said:


> Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyers is an excellent read. It's LOA with a Biblical perspective. Everything is supported in the Bible.
> 
> LOA is not the 'devil.'
> 
> ...


 
"What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and lose his soul?" " Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?  Matthew 16:26

"*All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any*.  Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them." I Corinthians 6: 12 & 13

Proverbs 14:12 says, "there is a way *which seemeth right unto a man*, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

The teachings of believers in the Law of Attraction is attracting many people who have become frustrated and confused with understanding the "law" of success. Bible-believing Christians should understand the differences between reliance on positive thinking, faith in God, luck, chance, fate, destiny, some of the deceptive teachings of regarding the Law of Attraction.

The power of determination and the power of faith in God are indeed intertwined, but only to a certain crucial point, a line the Christian should never cross. Detection of where that crucial line begins, requires a basic, but solid understanding of spiritual beings and universal laws.

In this day of great deception, it's wise to examine every philosophy regarding things that are not seen to analyze if they are in agreement with God's word. Otherwise, what may appear to be positive speech may actually be a chant in disguise or a prayer to an unholy entity. The universal laws of the Lord may be mistakenly attributed to a so-called universal mind. And lastly, one's faith in God may be mistaken for nothing more than the power of positive thinking.


Here is something that was given to me that I would like to share. It's fairly long, but I believe that every christian need to read it, to get a full understanding of LOA.  I will put it into two posts.

*****************************

*Success By Positive Thinking Or Faith In God?*

Motivational speakers expound on the power of positive thoughts, determination, and hard work as a winning formula for success in life. Christians expound on faith in God as the key for success. New Agers expound on belief in a universal mind and neutral spirits and energies into which anyone may tap for success, whether for good or evil.
Believers in all three philosophies are experiencing success. What is the difference in them? The power of determination and the power of faith in God are indeed intertwined, but only to a certain crucial point, a line the Christian should never cross. Detection of where that crucial line begins, requires a basic, but solid understanding of spiritual beings and universal laws.

All "energies" and spirit beings, are either good or evil. They are angels in the kingdom of God, the holy angels, or in the kingdom of Satan, the fallen angels that rebelled against God, including Satan, also known as the Serpent, the Dragon, and Beelzebub (KJV Bible, Revelation. 12.7-9, 2 Peter. 2.4, Luke 15.10, Matthew. 12.24). Man also has a spiritual body that is either under the influence of evil or good (KJV, 1 Thessalonians 5.23). In summary, there's no neutral or middle ground. There's no gray or fuzzy areas when it comes to spiritual matters. The Bible, from cover to cover, always compares and contrasts only two sides. A person is either with Jesus or he is against him (KJV, Matthew 12.30). He drinks from the cup of the Lord or the cup of devils and partakes of the table of either the Lord or the table of devils (KJV, 1 Corinthians 10.21). His name is written in the book of life or it is not written (KJV, Revelation 20.15). Every spirit in existence is either holy, serving Christ, or unholy, being against Christ (KJV, 1 John 4.1-3).

Armed with the truth that there are no neutral spirits or "energies", the question of the existence of a universal mind must now be examined due to what appears to be universal laws to which all life is subject.
Newton's third law states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. A swimmer uses his arms and legs to push water behind him, backwards. The more force he exerts on the water, the more the water exerts force on him. This universal law cannot be changed or manipulated whether one has a positive mind or not, has faith in God or believes in a universal mind.

The first law of thermodynamics states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. If someone is given a cup of water and told to destroy it, he won't be able to obey. If he freezes the water, he'll have ice. If he boils it, he'll have steam, but a cup of water will still exist as vapor. These are the results that will be obtained whether the water is being handled by a pessimist, optimist, or Christian with faith in God.

Biology, teaches that animal life can't exist without blood. Consequently, if a person looses too much, his life will cease, no matter how much of an optimist he may be, no matter how much faith he has in God as all are subject to the laws of the universe. Lastly, there's the universal law that inevitably compels every life to eventually end. This truth doesn't mean that such laws can never be "broken", as this is the very definition of a miracle. However, unless the supernatural breaks the laws of the natural in the performance of a miracle, the universal laws remain in effect.
Indeed, there's a great "universal mind" whose thoughts are as high above those of mortals as the clouds in the sky. This universal mind is not a neutral force that can be harnessed for good or evil.

It's recorded in the Bible that God said, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (KJV, Isaiah 55.8-9). There is Biblical proof that God is the author of all universal laws, including the aforementioned scientific ones.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jul 23, 2008)

King Solomon, the supposed author of the biblical book of Ecclesiastes, wrote in the fourteenth verse of the third chapter that, "whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him." This is the law of thermodynamics. The universal law that allows no flesh to continue living without its blood has also been established by God. Leviticus 17.11 states that, "the life of the flesh is in the blood."

Finally, the most dreaded of all universal laws, the inevitable fate to die, is also revealed in scripture as the apostle Paul wrote in Hebrews 9.27 that, "it is appointed unto men once to die."
Since God is the universal law maker, surely His word should be the perfect guide to understanding the difference between reliance on positive thinking, determination and faith in Him. It should also show where the two belief systems blend and where they split.

The scripture of Genesis 11.1-6 is one of the most compelling of all biblical passages that plainly speak of the power of positive thinking, determination, and hard work as a winning combination that works even for those who are in opposition to God. Man is reminded of when his ancestors set out to build a great tower reaching into the heavens to avoid being scattered in the earth, and to give glory to themselves instead of God. It's written that the Lord Himself said, "behold, the people is one, and they have all one language, and this they begin to do, and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." There is no reason to believe that had the Lord not directly intervened, they would have accomplished a feat that would have dwarfed even the greatest of the wonders of the world.

The Bible also instructs the righteous to have positive, strong minds. The scripture of 2 Timothy 1.7 says that God gave the believer a spirit of power. The Christian is also to stand on the scriptures of Philippians 4.13 which tells him he can do all things through Christ that strengthens him, and that of Philippians 4.8 which states, "finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

But how is the positive thinking of a Christian any different from that of someone who isn't a believer? Concerning the working of the universal laws, there's no difference. However, the Christian is subject to another set of laws to which the non-Christian is not. This other law is the law of Christ. Essentially, the Christian must contend with the universal laws as well as submit to the law of Christ which exerts restrictions on him that are not exerted on those who have no faith in God, being carnally minded. The scripture of Romans 8.7 says that, "because the carnal/fleshly mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God..." The apostle Paul clearly stated that he thanked God through Christ, that with his mind he served the law of God but that with the flesh, he served the law of sin, meaning that he was subject to the laws of the God of the universe as well as to the laws of the God of Israel (all believers) and the God of his personal life. The believer is subject to a lot more than the one who does not believe. As a consequence, his journey to success may take a very different path, a much longer period of time, and expose him to very unpleasant circumstances. He is already told that, "all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution" (KJV, 2 Timothy 3.12). The one who places his faith in God is restricted from mixing with his positive thinking, the telling of lies, even "little white" lies, any form of theft, making alliances with the ungodly, and many other sins in which non-Christians participate to their advantage in the pursuit of success. It's not without reason that they say one can't make it in this world being totally honest. Although God wants His servants to achieve success also (KJV, III John 2), He doesn't permit them to help themselves through the commission of sin but rather to rest their positive mindset in faith in Him. Whenever the believer engages in activities that are prohibited by the law of Christ, even when they would work in harmony with his positive thinking he has overstepped the crucial line that divides the unbelieving optimists from the believing.

Are happiness, health, and riches obtained purely by positive thinking, determination, and hard work by the non-Christian, and by these same things plus faith in God by the Christian? Scripture holds the account of both wicked and righteous men who enjoyed wealth. The situation is no different in modern times. There are ample biblical passages which speak of the ungodly ways in which many of the wicked obtain riches and also of the fate that awaits them. However, there's also the account of godly men who obtained riches through God's blessing. Among such men were Abraham, Job, and Solomon (KJV, Genesis 13.11, Job 42.12, I Chronicles 1.12). It can't be disputed that the lack of riches in the believers life may be the consequence of many things including but not limited to failure to work diligently, mismanagement of finances, and bad decisions, all of which the Bible speaks. There's even the consideration of the scriptures which speak of how difficult it can be for a rich man to be saved because he tends to trust in his riches instead of in God. Therefore, his failure to achieve fortune may actually be his protection. Nevertheless, there are scriptures stating that God gives the power to obtain wealth (KJV, Deuteronomy 8.18, 1 Samuel 2.7), and sensible, decent people know that such wealth is not obtained in the wicked fashion of greed and oppression of others (KJV, Proverbs 22.16). Knowing also that God rains on the just and the unjust (KJV, Matthew 5.45), one might conclude that both the righteous and the unrighteous, with the power of positive thinking, determination, and hard work can therefore expect God's blessing of riches. Again, however, the Christian concerned that he doesn't sin against God in the actions resulting from positive thinking, must remember that the Bible informs that wealth can also come through direct Satanic power that may appear perfectly harmless. To illustrate the danger of such pit falls before revealing scripture which warns of this, the sharing of a real life example is in order.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jul 23, 2008)

A young, Christian, single mother once came into possession of a printed prayer for guaranteed wealth. The written instructions were authored by a secretive group of people whose "organization" maintains international chapters and whose name will not be revealed. The instructions required all participants to say the prayer at a specific time of the day, for a specific number of days. Real life, verifiable and long-lasting testimonies of "blessings" of wealth, accompanied the prayer and its instructions, along with biblical scripture. The young woman phoned her brother-in-law, a young minister with above average Bible knowledge. She was excited to share what she thought was her new found Christian knowledge, plan to pray the prayer, and invitation for him to participate. Immediately upon hearing what organized group of people was behind the prayer, he realized that his sister-in-law was on the verge of participating in prayer directed not to God, but to unholy entities, constituting a form of worship of them.

Among those that instruct that the power of the positive mind leads to the power of positive speech, are non-Christian motivational speakers and followers of the New Age who are often one and the same. Their audiences are told that tangible things can literally be spoken into and out of existence as one taps into the universal mind which may be Christ, Buddha, God, or what or whoever it is in which a person believes. Christians are falling into the trap of believing such twisted and calculated misuse of biblical passages. Among the chief scriptures used include the following words of Jesus:
_*...Verily, I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place, and it shall remove, and nothing shall be impossible unto you (KJV, Matthew 17.20).*_

New Age philosophy, and strange "religions" often believe in the messages captured from what are said to be extra-terrestrial beings. These beings claim that Jesus was no different than anyone else, except that He possessed a higher consciousness. They also point out that Christ did not specifically call for faith in Him; He just said faith. Trusting in the fact that hardly anyone takes the time to verify scriptural references for themselves, deception can carry out its plan. Had the young woman been truly instructed in the vast wisdom of the scriptures, she would have at least realized that prayer and worship can be directed to Satan's kingdom, specifically in exchange for power, riches, and practically anything else that can be desired.

In the scripture of Matthew 4.8-9, its recorded that, _"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them, and saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me._
The "glory" of the kingdoms of the world is riches which in turns carries power. The Bible does not go into detail of the many forms of satanic adoration that exists. Many seem innocent, others are bloody and gruesome, but nevertheless, very literal diabolical contracts. Such dark, abominable and often, secret deeds are to be mentioned only with discretion (KJV, Ephesian 5.12).


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## Shimmie (Jul 23, 2008)

Thank you Precious Wavy... 

This title in your post says it all...

**Success By Positive Thinking Or Faith In God?**

The Apostle Paul said it plainly and yet to the point, "I Believe God."

Jesus asked it plainly and yet to the point, "Do you believe (that I can do this?).    Jesus said further, 'Blessed are those who Believe (HIM).   

The bottomline is, God is not mocked, meaning that He cannot be imitated, neither replaced.  There is no duplication of God and all that pertains to Him.  

When God says that He will have no other Gods before Him, He is literally protecting us from ourselves.  For when we venture out beyond Him and seek other gods, it is the path to failure.   

If *Christians *want to partake of an loa, then go to the real one, Jesus Christ who is... 

*L*ord 
*o*f 
*A*ll

:heart2:


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## EbonyHairedPrincess (Jul 23, 2008)

LOA has enhanded my understanding of how God works.  It has allowed me to step out in faith and realize it's not about naming and claiming but about having faith and doing the work (physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually).  Most life enhancing concepts are met with opposition initially, LOA is no exception.  Not everyone is going to get on the bus and that is okay, but when people are riding past you ......


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## Shimmie (Jul 23, 2008)

EbonyHairedPrincess said:


> LOA has enhanded my understanding of how God works. It has allowed me to step out in faith and realize it's not about naming and claiming but about having faith and doing the work (physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually). Most life enhancing concepts are met with opposition initially, LOA is no exception. Not everyone is going to get on the bus and that is okay, but when people are riding past you ......


But angel, why did it take this method of witchcraft to understand God, especially when you have the Holy Spirit of God who will lead and guide you into ALL truth. 

Jesus, Himself told us that He was leaving with us, a Comforter, the Holy Spirit who is our guide and connection who would give us ALL understanding.   

Oh Little One..... don't let satan deceive you into thinking God is not our all in all. For it is God and God *alone* who has provided for all that we could ever need or ask for.  I see so clearly how the enemy has crept into the minds and hearts of so many precious ones.  To understand God comes from God and no other or none other source. 

  You're a precious love of God's heart and you don't need a false god to give you an understanding of who God is.


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## PaperClip (Jul 23, 2008)

EbonyHairedPrincess said:


> LOA has enhanded my understanding of how God works. It has allowed me to step out in faith and realize it's not about naming and claiming but about having faith and doing the work (physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually). *Most life enhancing concepts are met with opposition initially,* LOA is no exception. Not everyone is going to get on the bus and that is okay, but when people are riding past you ......


 
Please name a life-enhancing concept (that DOES NOT remove the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ) that has received opposition.

In other words, the Bible-believing Christian's "resistance" to loa is BIBLICALLY BASED! 

Proverbs 3:4-5: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart, and LEAN NOT TO THY OWN UNDERSTANDING. In all thy ways acknowledge HIM, and HE shall direct thy paths."

But, EHP: I have heard others say what you said about how the secret has "helped" them re. their faith. However, it advances into dangerous territory because it can draw a (weaker) Christian away from the Lord. Please understand that I am not calling anybody weak. What I am saying is that what Christians need is in the Word of God. And the Lord knew we would be confronted with all manner of enticements that would draw us away from Him so He gave instruction concerning such things:

Matthew 24:24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.  25Behold, I have told you before.

 Mark 13:22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jul 23, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Thank you Precious Wavy...
> 
> This title in your post says it all...
> 
> ...


 
Amen, sis.  Unfortunately, there will be people who will still say that its ok after all we write and how many scriptures we put out there, they will still think that their way is the right way....sad indeed.

But, we ALL will be JUDGED for every DEED done with this body and that includes WHAT WE THINK!!!  

_*Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Colossians 3:1*_

_*Casting down imaginations*, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and *bringing into captivity* every thought to the obedience of Christ  - *2 Corinthians 10:5*_


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## Shimmie (Jul 23, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> *Please name a life-enhancing concept (that DOES NOT remove the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ) that has received opposition.*
> 
> *In other words, the Bible-believing Christian's "resistance" to loa is BIBLICALLY BASED! *
> 
> ...


Excellent!   I'm taking notes from you and Nice & Wavy cause my brain is too overworked these days....


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## Shimmie (Jul 23, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Amen, sis. Unfortunately, there will be people who will still say that its ok after all we write and how many scriptures we put out there, they will still think that their way is the right way....sad indeed.
> 
> But, we ALL will be JUDGED for every DEED done with this body and that includes WHAT WE THINK!!!
> 
> ...


 Hey Darlin'... miss you.  

You're right about this.  What bothers me is that satan still tries to bring this mess over here into the Christianity forum.  Trying to sneak this mess into the Christian walk and lifestyle.   Again and again, he tries.  And he always deceives and has those who will say, "I'm a Christian and ................................. loa is okay".   

Ummmmm, the devil is liar!   loa is NOT okay for those who live for Christ Jesus.  We do not serve other gods, neither do we need any help from outside sources to give us a closer walk nor an understanding of God.  God does not need any help from satan to make Himself understood to us. 

Jesus is Lord and there is none other.  There is only ONE way to God the Father, and that is by Jesus Christ.   For He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no man comes unto the Father except by Him..... King Jesus.


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## Nefertiti0906 (Jul 23, 2008)

chocolatechiq said:


> BTW, for me personally, it is not necessary to follow everything in a doctrine or philosophy, for example The Secret, to pull out the important "true" parts.
> 
> To me the most important thing is realizing what you are focusing on and if you are not happy change your focus. I am sure everyone knows negative people, whether they are Christian or not, who are always focusing on the negative and how bad things are...being around them makes you feel bad. So if a person focuses on what is good in their life, i.e. what God/The Universe has given them, it will only bring more goodness.
> 
> That's my interpretation.


 
This is what I think also.  I would not let anything replace God in my life, but I do listen to principles that I believe will enhance my relationship with God our Heavenly Father.  I like to take my own spin on things because I feel closer to God...


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## jturner7156 (Jul 23, 2008)

Honestly, who needs LOA when you have given your life to God? Really think about it...everything LOA tells you tell to do, the bible has already instructed a true follower of christ to do thousands and thousands of years ago. So when did this become a "Secret or LOA". Shimmie said it well, it's nothing but the devil trying to take credit. Think of this scenario...as time goes by and someone is following LOA, he will look at that church goer and say, I don't need to pay tithes b/c LOA got me that $250,000 house thus leading to...churches eventually having to close their doors. I don't need to suffer as Christ did b/c LOA brought me my man overnight, why pray when all I have to do is positively bring it in as LOA says it will. Thus leading one to turning away from God b/c they will no longer need him or they will began to think so. Always remember, the devil has gifts too....


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## Shimmie (Jul 23, 2008)

jturner7156 said:


> Honestly, who needs LOA when you have given your life to God? Really think about it...everything LOA tells you tell to do, the bible has already instructed a true follower of christ to do thousands and thousands of years ago. So when did this become a "Secret or LOA". Shimmie said it well, it's nothing but the devil trying to take credit. Think of this scenario...as time goes by and someone is following LOA, he will look at that church goer and say, I don't need to pay tithes b/c LOA got me that $250,000 house thus leading to...churches eventually having to close their doors. I don't need to suffer as Christ did b/c LOA brought me my man overnight, why pray when all I have to do is positively bring it in as LOA says it will. Thus leading one to turning away from God b/c they will no longer need him or they will began to think so. Always remember, the devil has gifts too....


  Excellent 

And Jturner this also:

loa is especially dangerous because it takes away one's dependence upon God and their focus upon God as Lord.

"I don't have to pray, instead I just do the methods of loa."   

And this is where the danger is.  People get hooked, dependent upon, addicted to the 'attraction' process that they no longer seek God, but seek themselves instead.  They have become their own god.  

And this is exactly where satan wants them, as their own gods.  And in this place they are prime targets for satan go for the 'kill.'   

The sin is not in thinking positive for God tells us in Philipians 4:8 to think upon things that are just, pure, holy.   There is definitely power is our thoughts for the mind is the womb for nurturing our thoughts into action.  And satan recognizes this and uses it to steer one's focus away from God. 

It's not for Chrisitians.     And Christians DO know better.  They do.  But they become impatient and lack faith; satan knows this and leads them into a path of destruction.... 'self will'.   

loa is self willing a desired thing into one's life ----- total witchcraft.


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## jturner7156 (Jul 23, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Excellent
> 
> And Jturner this also:
> 
> ...


 
Exactly! and to the bolded, once you eliminate prayer...where is the relationship with God, there is none. You no longer know him and when the final day arrives...he no longer knows you. Honestly and truthfully this is what it boils down to!


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## Nice & Wavy (Jul 23, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Hey Darlin'... miss you.
> 
> You're right about this. What bothers me is that satan still tries to bring this mess over here into the Christianity forum. Trying to sneak this mess into the Christian walk and lifestyle. Again and again, he tries. And he always deceives and has those who will say, "I'm a Christian and ................................. loa is okay".
> 
> ...


 
Awwww...I miss you too.  I'm going to give you a call and tell you all about my trip to Jamaica!

The thing too is this: Why do you need something else to give you a "closer relationship" with God, when all you have to do is spend time with Him and He will reveal everything a person needs for life and godliness!  What I believe is that if you feel you need something else, then you aren't doing what you are suppose to do as a believer...plain and simple.

God doesn't need any help.  Where was loa when He was creating the universe?  Where was loa when He created the stars and He spoke Orion into being?  Where was loa when He breathed into the nostrils of man and man became a living soul?  Where was loa when God created the mountains and the skies and the flowers, all arrayed in beautiful colors and shapes and sizes?  Where was loa when God created the oceans and the seas and the lakes and rivers?  Where was loa when........?

It wasn't....that tis all!

God is all knowing and all seeing.  He doesn't need man to help Him with anything.  His desire that all men come unto repentance and no one to perish.  People perish for lack of knowledge....knowledge of HIM!!!

I pray that people's eyes will be opened and that they will see that who they think is for them is actually against them!  satan is a liar and the father of lies, therefore he will lie to them and make them think that they know what the truth is....but, they won't.  satan is here to steal, kill and to destroy!

I praise the Lord for His Holy Spirit and that He teaches all truth...the truth that only comes from the Father!


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## btrflyrose (Jul 23, 2008)

jturner7156 said:


> You no longer know him and when the final day arrives...he no longer knows you.


 
What an absolutely lonely, scary thought.  This almost made me cry.  

It is oh so easy to slip away from the Will of God, what is truly right and out of a relationship with Him.  Regular, everyday life is filled with enough distraction as it is.  Why bring in another element that only succeeds in taking you further and further away?

It's almost like being stranded out at sea; being pulled down by a strong undercurrent.  Out so far, you can no longer see the Light house.  You've focused so much on yourself that you've become lost.  And my dear sisters, you don't want to be lost in this world.


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## Shimmie (Jul 23, 2008)

btrflyrose said:


> What an absolutely lonely, scary thought.  This almost made me cry.
> 
> It is oh so easy to slip away from the Will of God, what is truly right and out of a relationship with Him.  Regular, everyday life is filled with enough distraction as it is.  Why bring in another element that only succeeds in taking you further and further away?
> 
> It's almost like being stranded out at sea; being pulled down by a strong undercurrent.  Out so far, you can no longer see the Light house.  You've focused so much on yourself that you've become lost.  And my dear sisters, you don't want to be lost in this world.


It makes me cry too, btrflyrose...

No matter how badly I want something, I just don't want it without God. 

Jesus said, "Unless, the Lord builds the house, it will not stand."  

loa may bring things into a person's life, but if is doesn't come from God, then what good will it do in my life?  

What quality will it be of?  

What is attached to that which I attract? 

What greater price will I have to pay 'later'?

What Price -- When Jesus already paid it all with His life and Precious Blood.


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## Shimmie (Jul 23, 2008)

jturner7156 said:


> Exactly! and to the bolded, once you eliminate prayer...where is the relationship with God, there is none. You no longer know him and when the final day arrives...he no longer knows you. Honestly and truthfully this is what it boils down to!


Amen jturner....I don't ever want to be out of relationship with the One God who loves me more than I can ever deserve, yet He loves me that much and so much more.  

Beautiful blessings to a beautiful sister...'you', jturner.


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## discobiscuits (Jul 24, 2008)

The so-called LOA (Law of Attraction) is a biblical principle placed in the earth by God. The basic premise of LOA is: Ask, Believe, Receive which is precisely what Jesus told his disciples (Matthew 21:21-22; Mark 11:23-24). This "formula" works because it is His principle. If one is a Christ-like-one, Jesus said whatever you ask in prayer, believe and you will receive. With LOA the prayer part is not included, nor is it necessary. Jesus never said that if you don't ask in prayer you won't get it, He said whatever you ask for in prayer believe and receive. The statements that Jesus made prior to the ask in prayer statement show that one does not need prayer: 





> (Mark 11:23) "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him.


 In v.23 Jesus is showing the physical or natural application or practice of the law, and in v.24 He is explaining the spiritual application or practice.
If you look at the story of Babel, God confused the languages because: "....nothing that man planned would be impossible for him." (Gen. 11:6) Man was building this city to make a name for themselves and they did not pray about it (at least it is not written that they did), yet God recognized that anything that man planned would be successful and nothing would be impossible. 

I am not stating a case for LOA/law of attraction, I'm just pointing out that it works with or without God as a partner, with or without prayer. 

I like Shimmie's comment: LOA= Lord of All.

With God, the Lord of All will bring health, happiness, wealth, success for others as well as the primary person. Without God the end is despair, depression, sadness, emptiness, wandering, desolation.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 24, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> Does anyone else have an issue with this? I was given the book The Secret and had to put it down after reading just a few pages. It really seemed like it was telling you that you could subject God to being your genie. That He was all powerful and that He didn't have a will but to do your will.
> 
> Whatever happened to *Thou* will be done?
> 
> ...


 

Yep.  When the Secret was first on Oprah, I jumped all over the bandwagon.  Then my sister-in-law told me to put down that new age book and pick up my Bible.  I was in church at the time and everything, but I was in a desperate place.  Books like these appeal to our flesh in that is promises that we can have everything we want and that it is all in our own hands.  The reality for me, as a Christian, is that God is in control and that when I try to do things out of his will, true---I may gain something.  But in the end, it is God's will that is most important and if I remain in his will, He will give me the desires of my heart and I wont have to do anything weird to receive it.


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## PaperClip (Jul 24, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> I am not stating a case for LOA/law of attraction, I'm just pointing out that it works with or without God as a partner, with or without prayer.


 
I respectfully respond and say: can we PLEASE STOP sugarcoating this thing?!

If I have the Lord Jesus Christ, there is no need for any other so-called power, force, god, etc. PERIOD!

The Bible says "THE LORD is my Shepherd, I shall NOT WANT!" So that means that my needs and my wants are met... and if I'm wanting something, is that something I really need? If that want is outside the will of God, should I still desire it?

2 Corinthians 12:9 says "But He said to me, My grace (My favor and loving-kindness and mercy) is enough for you [sufficient against any danger and enables you to bear the trouble manfully]; for My strength and power are made perfect (fulfilled and completed) and [a]show themselves most effective in [your] weakness. Therefore, I will all the more gladly glory in my weaknesses and infirmities, that the strength and power of Christ (the Messiah) may rest (yes, may [b]pitch a tent over and dwell) upon me!" (Amplified)

In other words, the Lord is strong enough and powerful enough to 1) know what I need and want, and 2) has the capacity to grant it, and 3) wants me trust Him enough so that if I do ask for something and it's not in my best interest, that He will let me know that and I have to trust that He is right and that He knows best.

And when you say "it works", what exactly do you mean?

Me talking: The Lord is ALL-KNOWING. He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He knows the end from the beginning. He knows what's gonna happen long-term. 

The universe is not all-knowing. The universe, in its ambiguity, is merely a reactionary existence...give and take.... One cannot have relationship with the universe. But the Lord wants RELATIONSHIP with us....

Hmmm... I wonder if loa is like worshipping the universe.... By definition, worship means to "reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; _also_ *:* an act of expressing such reverence"... and because loa requires so much mind, body, and soulful (not necessarily spiritual) power, that is like a form of reverence....

Just a thought....


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 24, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> The so-called LOA (Law of Attraction) is a biblical principle placed in the earth by God. The basic premise of LOA is: Ask, Believe, Receive which is precisely what Jesus told his disciples (Matthew 21:21-22; Mark 11:23-24). This "formula" works because it is His principle. If one is a Christ-like-one, Jesus said whatever you ask in prayer, believe and you will receive. With LOA the prayer part is not included, nor is it necessary. Jesus never said that if you don't ask in prayer you won't get it, He said whatever you ask for in prayer believe and receive. The statements that Jesus made prior to the ask in prayer statement show that one does not need prayer: In v.23 Jesus is showing the physical or natural application or practice of the law, and in v.24 He is explaining the spiritual application or practice.
> If you look at the story of Babel, God confused the languages because: "....nothing that man planned would be impossible for him." (Gen. 11:6) Man was building this city to make a name for themselves and they did not pray about it (at least it is not written that they did), yet God recognized that anything that man planned would be successful and nothing would be impossible.
> 
> I am not stating a case for LOA/law of attraction, I'm just pointing out that it works with or without God as a partner, with or without prayer.
> ...


 
I get what you are saying, that is what I believed when I first read the Secret which has it's premise based on LOA.  But why would you want to leave out prayer?  Prayer is communing with God in both request and thanks.  If he is the supplier and source of all things(((Lord of All), then what reason would a person have to want to skip him altogether.  To me, it seems like using God but not wanting a relationship with him, which is a part of his reason for creating mankind.  He created us for a relationship, not just so that he could delve out all the goodies to us only to have us act like we don't need him.  Again the premis of LOA is ask, believe, receive.  But there is something about it that reminds me of a falling away

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 says, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (KJV)

To me, LOA and The Secret are exalting man above God.  It is telling you that you can get/have it all without the help of God.  It removes God from the equation.  It says, that you don't have to believe in God to receive.  They are creating little mini-gods in every believer.  When you believe that everything comes to you by your own will and through sources that can't be named specifically and that it is up to you to decide what, when, how, and where you receive things, then you are worshipping yourself.  Your become a self idol worshipper---IMO.


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## MrsQueeny (Jul 24, 2008)

chocolatechiq said:


> Growing up in a strict religious household (although I am not following it now),
> the best way for me to understand much of the LOA / Secret thing and many other POV's as I've gotten older is to consider God as the Universe....if I look at God as infinitely expanding everywhere, then He would be the universe.
> 
> BTW, for me personally, it is not necessary to follow everything in a doctrine or philosophy, for example The Secret, to pull out the important "true" parts.
> ...



I don't see God as the universe. God is God period. He created the universe and He controls it but they are not the same.  As for "me" as a Christian LOA/The Secret gets no play because it is the trick of the devil. The devil is a master of tricking people. The author of the Secret gives no credit to God and because of that, I can not and will not support it or any aspects of it period. People are falling for the tricks because the devil is giving them whatever they want and need that will keep them from God. He has them believing that the universe is giving them these things when it is really him. Except folks are not reading the fine print when it comes to the price they will pay for accepting these things from him.  He is making it so that people feel they don't have a need for God. All they need to do is just be "good" by the world's standards and everything will be okay.  I am not fooled and I am not falling for it.  What God deems as good is different than the world's definition and I want to be good in His eyes. Only what He says matters.  Q


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 24, 2008)

Queeny20 said:


> I don't see God as the universe. God is God period. He created the universe and He controls it but they are not the same. As for "me" as a Christian LOA/The Secret gets no play because it is the trick of the devil. The devil is a master of tricking people. The author of the Secret gives no credit to God and because of that, I can not and will not support it or any aspects of it period. *People are falling for the tricks because the devil is giving them whatever they want and need that will keep them from God. He has them believing that the universe is giving them these things when it is really him. Except folks are not reading the fine print when it comes to the price they will pay for accepting these things from him.* He is making it so that people feel they don't have a need for God. All they need to do is just be "good" *by the world's standards* and everything will be okay. I am not fooled and I am not falling for it. What God deems as good is different than the world's definition and I want to be good in His eyes. Only what He says matters. Q


 

ITA.  It hurts me to my heart for the souls that may never know *and* believe the truth about these things.  That is the key,  these things operate by the world's standards, not by God's standards.  True, wealth and prosperity are a part of God's plan for us, but they are a reward for us, and not a gift to us.


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## Shimmie (Jul 24, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> The so-called LOA (Law of Attraction) is a biblical principle placed in the earth by God. The basic premise of LOA is: Ask, Believe, Receive which is precisely what Jesus told his disciples (Matthew 21:21-22; Mark 11:23-24). This "formula" works because it is His principle. If one is a Christ-like-one, Jesus said whatever you ask in prayer, believe and you will receive.
> 
> With LOA the prayer part is not included, nor is it necessary. Jesus never said that if you don't ask in prayer you won't get it, He said whatever you ask for in prayer believe and receive. The statements that Jesus made prior to the ask in prayer statement show that one does not need prayer: In v.23 Jesus is showing the physical or natural application or practice of the law, and in v.24 He is explaining the spiritual application or practice.
> If you look at the story of Babel, God confused the languages because: "....nothing that man planned would be impossible for him." (Gen. 11:6) Man was building this city to make a name for themselves and they did not pray about it (at least it is not written that they did), yet God recognized that anything that man planned would be successful and nothing would be impossible.
> ...


I love that Scripture in Genesis 11:6.  The King James Version says it this way.  

_"....and nothing will be restrained from them which they have imagined to do." _

It's powerful.  And it's a classic explaination that the principles of imagination do operate and do have power.   This is what makes the loa so dangerous for anyone, especially a Christian.   For whatever one imagines, it can be manifested and made into being.   

The danger is the source of imagination and the attachment to the attraction.  There's always a price...a heavy price.  For when one goes without God, he will be without protection.  And in this life the way things are going and coming....we can't afford one second nor a fraction thereof without the leading, the guidance, the healing, and the very presence of God in our lives.  

'Selah'..........


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## btrflyrose (Jul 24, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> ITA. It hurts me to my heart for the souls that may never know *and* believe the truth about these things. That is the key, these things operate by the world's standards, not by God's standards. True, wealth and prosperity are a part of God's plan for us, but they are a reward for us, and not a gift to us.


 

Exactly and as soon as you take the Lord out of the equation it is no longer of God.  Regardless of where the principles originated.

So what if there are similar principles in the Bible.  There are also similar principles in other religions, are you following those as well?

If you say you are His child, then He is all you need.  

Unless LOA starts off with, 'All honor and glory to the Lord Jesus Christ' and states those _principles_ by backing it up with scriptures from God's word (IN THE BOOK), then it is not of God.  PERIOD.


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## discobiscuits (Jul 24, 2008)

FS/RR:  *No one* is sugarcoating it. I stated truth. LOA is a principle of God taught by Jesus and works with or without prayer and with or without God. Period.


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## PaperClip (Jul 24, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> FS/RR: *No one* is sugarcoating it. I stated truth. LOA is a principle of God taught by Jesus and works with or without prayer and with or without God. Period.


 
To what truth do you associate the principle of loa as associated with God taught by Jesus? Does the Bible use the term loa? is the word attraction even in the Bible?

And, if it works without God, then why would God even mention/be associated with it?


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## discobiscuits (Jul 24, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> I love that Scripture in Genesis 11:6.  The King James Version says it this way.
> 
> _"....and nothing will be restrained from them which they have imagined to do." _
> 
> ...


I so agree with your entire post shimmie particularly the bold.


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## discobiscuits (Jul 24, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> To what truth do you associate the principle of loa as associated with God taught by Jesus? *Does the Bible use the term loa? is the word attraction even in the Bible*?
> 
> And, if it works without God, then why would God even mention/be associated with it?


1. I like your new screen name. It suits you.
2. No the bible does not use the term "law of attraction" (nor does it use "homosexual/ity" until more recent translations) yet it discusses both.
3. I already gave the scriptures for my statement, you may refer to my earlier post to answer your above comment/question/statement.


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## discobiscuits (Jul 24, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> I get what you are saying, that is what I believed when I first read the Secret which has it's premise based on LOA. *But why would you want to leave out prayer?* Prayer is communing with God in both request and thanks. If he is the supplier and source of all things(((Lord of All), then what reason would a person have to want to skip him altogether. To me, it seems like *using God but not wanting a relationship with him*, which is a part of his reason for creating mankind. He created us for a relationship, not just so that he could delve out all the goodies to us only to have us act like we don't need him. Again the premis of LOA is ask, believe, receive. But there is something about it that reminds me of a falling away
> 
> *To me, LOA and The Secret are exalting man above God. It is telling you that you can get/have it all without the help of God. It removes God from the equation. It says, that you don't have to believe in God to receive. They are creating little mini-gods in every believer. When you believe that everything comes to you by your own will and through sources that can't be named specifically and that it is up to you to decide what, when, how, and where you receive things, then you are worshipping yourself. Your become a self idol worshipper---IMO.*


 
Your statement is accurate & I agree. God is left out as source to appeal to a mass audience and therefore generate larger sales/revenue. It appeals to everyone. Christians recognize it as of God because we've heard it and seen it before and everyone else accepts it so readily because it does not include Christ thereby not offending them. 

I've seen the movie and read the book and I believe that Byrne intentionally includes so-called Christian ministers so that Christians will feel included and make it easier for them to accept. The Secret says: "Ask, Believe, Receive" and Jesus says: "Ask, Believe, Receive." The former requires it of "the universe", of which some refer to as the 2nd heaven (I think) which is Satan's domain (someone please correct me if I got that wrong); the latter requests it of God through prayer.


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## tmichelle (Jul 24, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> Your statement is accurate & I agree. God is left out as source to appeal to a mass audience and therefore generate larger sales/revenue. It appeals to everyone. Christians recognize it as of God because we've heard it and seen it before and everyone else accepts it so readily because it does not include Christ thereby not offending them.
> 
> I've seen the movie and read the book and I believe that Byrne intentionally includes so-called Christian ministers so that Christians will feel included and make it easier for them to accept. The Secret says: "Ask, Believe, Receive" and Jesus says: "Ask, Believe, Receive." The former requires it of "the universe", of which some refer to as the 2nd heaven (I think) which is Satan's domain (someone please correct me if I got that wrong); the latter requests it of God through prayer.


 
This is where I actually take issue with The Secret and Law of Attraction.  In James he writes

_You do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because* you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.*  You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.  Or do you think that the Scripturespeaks to no purpose: He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"? _

Jesus never asked us to treat him like some celestial Santa Clause or genie telling us to ask whatever WE want.  In fact Jesus said, 

_""Do notworry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?' "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. "*But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.*  "So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. _

I don't see where the LOA or The Secret is telling people to seek the Kingdom God and His righteousness.  I see where it is telling people to seek whatever it is they want in their lives and they are promised to get it.  The Lord never promises you that as a Christian, but He does promise

_"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, *how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him*! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets._

He promises that he will give good gifts to his children.  But God is the one who determines what good is therefore we should ask that His will be done because we don't always know what good is.  In fact we hardly do because we are busy asking for earthly blessings and God says this earth will pass away and 

_Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. "But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also_

I don't hear the LOA or The Secret telling you to do this.  It seems they are focused on earthly blessings.

*ETA*:  There are several references to having faith and it being given to you.  I thought I would include the main two references right here:

 Matt 17:16 "_I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him." And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me." And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once. Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?" And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. [But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."] _

Luke 17  _"Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him." The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!" 6And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a mustard seed, you would say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you. _

Both times Jesus was speaking of spiritual circumstances.  He was concerned with the spiritual state of the man with a demon and wanted to increase the faith of his disciples not the pocketbooks.  How do we know, because as he said earlier in Matt 6 _"Do notworry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?' "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things."  _

As Christians we are to seek his kingdom and his righteousness and the rest will be taken care of.  This is the only "Law of Attraction" we need.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 24, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> Your statement is accurate & I agree. *God is left out as source to appeal to a mass audience and therefore generate larger sales/revenue*. It appeals to everyone. Christians recognize it as of God because we've heard it and seen it before and everyone else accepts it so readily because it does not include Christ thereby not offending them.
> 
> I've seen the movie and read the book and I believe that Byrne intentionally includes so-called Christian ministers so that Christians will feel included and make it easier for them to accept. The Secret says: "Ask, Believe, Receive" and Jesus says: "Ask, Believe, Receive." The former requires it of "the universe", of which some refer to as the 2nd heaven (I think) which is Satan's domain (someone please correct me if I got that wrong); the latter requests it of God through prayer.


 
Yes, and that brings it all full circle because it is the love of money that is perpetuating these ideas and in turn they are pulling people into a similar relationship with material things---yes a relationship with material things because the angle they are going at is that you get want you desire, love, and want.  Now don't get me wrong.  I don't believe that material possessions are evil or anything.  1 Timothy 6:6-10 says, "
6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 *For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.* Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."(NIV)*emphasis is my own*

As Christians we have to be careful not to fall into the trap of getting off the path of God.  It is easy for something to presented to us in a benevolent manner in which it is simply deemed to be politically correct to leave out Jesus for the sake of not offending anyone.  But the enemy is slick.  He wont come and try to take us out of the hand of our God by force and by showing his true colors, he will be like the serpent in genesis, he will use what God said, twist it to make it *almost* the same, then trick us into going along with his lie. Christians don't even need to read the Secret if it has Biblical basis right?  We can read the scriptures, ask(with a pure and righteous heart and with God's will in mind), believe in God to deliver on his promise to give us the desires of our heart, and with that, wait on the Lord and receive the promise that he can do the impossible---That is not a marketing ploy, that is truth, but when you start using the scripture and changing things and removing things, then you are in TROUBLE


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## Shimmie (Jul 24, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> I so agree with your entire post shimmie particularly the bold.


The 'mind' is a powerful thing.  The thought process is the birthing ground, the 'cervix' for those things manifested.  

In the word of God, God speaks about hope being the 'substance' of things hoped for. (Hebrews).  Where is hope nurtured and given birth to?  The mind. 

satan knows this and he is drawing people away from God by using this principle, be it by loa, meta physics, tarot cards, etc.   The mind...the mind...the mind is the tool which God has given us and it MUST be guarded by the Holy Spirit, least the mind be lead astray and into destruction of the one who has the mind to lose his mind to the wiles of satan's deceptions.

God says that there are ways that look right to man, but the end thereof is destruction.   Where does this mindset begin?  The mind.  The tool of invention.  

The imagination which gives life to what inhabits the minds of men.  God gave us a mind for Him to meditate upon Him, and to follow and abide in Him.  Casting down all imaginations and every high thing which will exalt itsself against God.  

The loa is satan's way to exalt itsself against God.


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## nissi (Aug 1, 2008)

I know i am late, but i am so glad this was posted because I left the board for 6 months when I saw everyone jumping on the bandwagon of this hot mess...anyway, here's another scripture (short and sweet) for consideration!

*Psalm 106:13-16: *

 13They soon forgat his works; *they waited not for his counsel:* _(but consulted the universe instead!) _

 14But *lusted* exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert.

* 15And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul. *

So scary! God would let us have what we want! With the sinful nature of man, I would be afraid if all of us got what we want! His thoughts are not our thoughts, nor His ways our ways (Is. 55:8-10)!

What more can you say? Looks like law of attraction is really "lust" of attraction!

Thank you OP (and the saints who spoke truth)! In the future I will be more bold about calling a spade a spade!


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 1, 2008)

This post was so good, I had to read it 3 times.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!



tmichelle said:


> This is where I actually take issue with The Secret and Law of Attraction. In James he writes
> 
> _You do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because* you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.* You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you think that the Scripturespeaks to no purpose: He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"? _
> 
> ...


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## MrsQueeny (Aug 2, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> This is where I actually take issue with The Secret and Law of Attraction.  In James he writes
> 
> _You do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because* you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.*  You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.  Or do you think that the Scripturespeaks to no purpose: He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"? _
> 
> ...



Thank you for breaking it down. You see a lot of people into the Secret/LOA are focused on obtaining things. They want to manifest a new job, a car, money etc. But God requires more of us. I always tell people that if you take care of God's business, He will take care of yours. Sure it is good to have things here on earth but these teachings are taking people's focus on what really matters and is removing God as the source from the equation. We need to focus on the things that will ensure our spot for eternity in heaven. None of the jobs, money, cars etc will matter in heaven or in hell. In all we do as Christians, God has to be *first*. I don't want anyone else to get the credit or the glory for the things He has done for me.  If folks would put as much attention into seeking the Lord as they do into these teachings, they would be blessed beyond measure.  Thanks again because reading this blessed me. Q


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## Candy_C (Aug 2, 2008)

God is always the main reason for my practises of the LOA

its strengthened my faith in god

i also use semi precious stones, un earthed from gods green earth it helps me remember nature and focus.

i've never been so full of energy and joy in my life

the LOA helped me to understand the way that I relate to god...which is through nature and meditation

my aunt who is a great Christian taught me about the spirit throughout my teens and energy, the chakras

i think when it comes to repligion we will ALL have very strong views, but my personal understanding is that you are to relate to god in your own special and positive (personal) way.

i'm so much more happier, i thank god every day (Christian god!) for the knowledge i have aquired. I was on such a spititual path, i was confused, i feel as though i have reached a special level in my beliefs

thanks for this thread!


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## ebaby (Aug 4, 2008)

I have never read the secret but I do know that God is the creator of all.  There is no secret, allow God as the head of your like and he will bless you how he sees fit.  It is not all about prosperity and it is not all about being dirt poor, in everything we do let us give God the glory.

 The visionboard concept is someting that I have done before this book was even published.  Many times throughout my life I have written down goals and made collages about things I wanted to accomplish in life.  I prayed over these projects and asked God to let his will be done.  It helped me to stay focused and offered a visual reminder of my goals.  I will continue to do this because God instructed me to write it down and allow him to let it come to pass.  When he tells me to do something, then I must listen.


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## Shimmie (Aug 4, 2008)

nissi said:


> I know i am late, but i am so glad this was posted because I left the board for 6 months when I saw everyone jumping on the bandwagon of this hot mess...anyway, here's another scripture (short and sweet) for consideration!
> 
> *Psalm 106:13-16: *
> 
> ...





Nice & Wavy said:


> This post was so good, I had to read it 3 times.
> 
> Thank you, thank you, thank you!


This entire thread is FULL of God's word.   I'm so blessed by each of you who have not 'waivered' in this issue.    You just don't know.   Yet God is faithful...oh yes He is.   God is faithful and just to bring forth His word and not allow the enemy to prevail.  

2 years ago, I went through hell with this issue and Christianity, as to how it did not belong in a Christian's life.   My thread was closed and God just had me wait.   Another thread was raised up in here by one who was trying to defend the loa being okay with Christians.    Yet God.......

Yet God has prevailed and He always will.   I'm so thankful for those of us who know 'our' God and that it is HIS principles, not the world's who have taken his gifts and called them their own.   

But God........ But God....... But God who is and was is still to come.  

Praise the name of Jesus... Praise Him. 

Angels, God bless you... with all of my heart, God bless you.


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## Shimmie (Aug 4, 2008)

Candy_C said:


> God is always the main reason for my practises of the LOA
> 
> its strengthened my faith in god
> 
> ...


Oh Precious one....

the loa does not celebrate God.    It's the Holy Spirit that gives us the understanding of God and not spirits of the unclean nature of this world.   satan has you just where he wants you...deceived.  

God reveals Himself to us and lead us to Him and gives us the understanding and closeness of Him by way of Him and Him being in the form of Himself by His Spirit and none other.   

satan is a master deceiver.  he could not de-throne God, so he has made himself god among those who will follow him upon this earth.   

There is only ONE way to God the Father, by HIS spirit and by the way of Jesus Christ.  The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit.  

Jesus made it plain,_ "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes unto the Father except by me."  _ 

Don't let satan fool you precious love of God; only God, by way of Jesus Christ and by way of the Holy Spirit can and will give you the TRUE understanding of God; not the devil's way called loa.  the loa whom you believe are simply:

*L*ies *
o*f the *
A*dversary.

It's an add-on that persons who fear letting go and letting God; those who are saying, 'I'll do it myself -- my way.' 

Before the loa, God still was and still is and always will be.....'God.'


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 5, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Oh Precious one....
> 
> the loa does not celebrate God.  It's the Holy Spirit that gives us the understanding of God and not spirits of the unclean nature of this world. satan has you just where he wants you...deceived.
> 
> ...


 
Excellent, excellent post, sis!


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## Shimmie (Aug 5, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Excellent, excellent post, sis!


 
Precious Wavy, I just don't 'get it'.   God doesn't need help from the devil to make Himself known to us.  satan cannot produce God, yet he has successfully seduced so many into his way of thinking.  

Precious Wavy..... Sis' ... thank God you 'know me' outside of this forum.  Thank God!  Cause I have to share this. 

What it all comes down to is this.  There are Christians who are trying to justify their faith in loa by saying it brings them closer to God.  Again my question is, '...since when does God need satan to teach us of Himself?"  If a person wants a closer relationship with God, then go to the direct source, which is .............. 'God'.  God has given us an open invitation to come 'boldly' to His throne of Grace to obtain mercy in time of trouble.  

He says that '...whosoever will, let him come and drink the waters of life.'

God says that anyone who comes to Him will in no wise be cast out or down.  No one is refused...no one.   That's just how much God loves us.

Trust me, I understand exactly what's going on here.  I've been there!  And I've learned that there are no 'short-cuts' and no substitutes and no other gods above God, Himself.   O' bless His Holy Name... Jesus! 

I love what the prophet Elijah says in I Kings, 

_*"How long will you halt between two opinions?*_ 

[Woooooo :wow: I'm ready to shout -- *I love that Word* --- _"How long will you halt -- be paralized -- be deceived --- between two opinions ? "]_ 

I love the rest of this Word... Look what Elijah says further and it the TRUTH!  Wooooooooo Jesus!  Look at this,  

_*If 'baal' be god, serve him* (however)* If God be God, serve Him."*_ 

You know, there are simply no in betweens.  NONE!  You cannot mix loa (*li*es *o*f the *a*dversary) with the Truth (being God) and still have Truth.  

Look, if someone wants to use loa, then fine, go for it.  But to the Christians, please don't put God in it, just to excuse the use of it.   Call it what it is, which is the world's worship of self gratification.  Just don't call it God.  For if God be God....Serve HIM -- make a complete commitment to Him and not baal. 

There is good thing that God will uphold from us.  None.  For all we have to do is ask God and He will deliver.  Just believe and take Him at His word.  God never fails.  He loves us just that much and more. :heart2:


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## momi (Aug 5, 2008)

Amen sister Shimmie - thank you for this thoughtful and loving rebuke.

Lord help us to see that You alone are more than enough.


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## tmichelle (Aug 5, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> This post was so good, I had to read it 3 times.
> 
> Thank you, thank you, thank you!


 


Queeny20 said:


> Thank you for breaking it down. You see a lot of people into the Secret/LOA are focused on obtaining things. They want to manifest a new job, a car, money etc. But God requires more of us. *I always tell people that if you take care of God's business, He will take care of yours*. Sure it is good to have things here on earth but these teachings are taking people's focus on what really matters and is removing God as the source from the equation. We need to focus on the things that will ensure our spot for eternity in heaven. None of the jobs, money, cars etc will matter in heaven or in hell. In all we do as Christians, God has to be *first*. I don't want anyone else to get the credit or the glory for the things He has done for me. If folks would put as much attention into seeking the Lord as they do into these teachings, they would be blessed beyond measure. Thanks again because reading this blessed me. Q


 
Thanks, isn't it amazing how God was able to put everything we needed for life and godliness in the Bible for us?

I also like the bolded statement.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 5, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Precious Wavy, I just don't 'get it'.  God doesn't need help from the devil to make Himself known to us. satan cannot produce God, yet he has successfully seduced so many into his way of thinking.
> 
> Precious Wavy..... Sis' ... thank God you 'know me' outside of this forum. Thank God! Cause I have to share this.
> 
> ...


 
WOW!!!!  Now, that's a word straight from the Lord!

There isn't anything left to say.....thank you sis...thank you!!!


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## tmichelle (Aug 5, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Precious Wavy, I just don't 'get it'.  God doesn't need help from the devil to make Himself known to us. satan cannot produce God, yet he has successfully seduced so many into his way of thinking.
> 
> Precious Wavy..... Sis' ... thank God you 'know me' outside of this forum. Thank God! Cause I have to share this.
> 
> ...


I too love what Elijah said so I had to make the font even bigger.  God is so clear in His message to us.  We seem to want to have one foot in heaven and one in the world.


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## Shimmie (Aug 5, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> WOW!!!!  Now, that's a word straight from the Lord!
> 
> There isn't anything left to say.....thank you sis...thank you!!!


Precious Wavy, I made a typo in my post :blush3:  

"There is *no *good thing that God will uphold from us..........

I didn't add the 'no' before good thing.    I'm sorry.


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## Shimmie (Aug 5, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> I too love what Elijah said so I had to make the font even bigger.  God is so clear in His message to us.  We seem to want to have one foot in heaven and one in the world.


tmichelle, I love that scripture. And it's the truth regarding Christians who are involved in the loa.   They are split between two opinions; two gods. 

God says choose one or the other, not both.


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## Casarela (Aug 7, 2008)

As for myself I bought the book last year and read it and almost if not fell for it ...and I prefer to stay away simply because I was focusing ON MYSELF and I always had this feeling deep down inside that I was turning away and far away from what I was thought at a young age. I had this guilt deep down inside....simply because I guess I was taking the glory for every thing that would happend positive by not thanking GOD for everything in my life. It happend without even me being conscious about it until I realized whoa why did I let go of all my habits such as my daily prayers  or pulling out my bible once in a while to read.. thats when I knew it was time to put that book down and stop reviewing it everyday and that if theres a book that I need to review frequently its my bible. Everyday is a challenge but I will continue my path and keep LORD JESUS-CHRIST first regarless who comes my way trying to disrupt my faith.


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## Demi27 (Aug 7, 2008)

sistas4longhair said:


> Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyers is an excellent read. It's LOA with a Biblical perspective. Everything is supported in the Bible.
> 
> *LOA is not the 'devil.' All it says is you get what you think. That is exactly the same as "For as he thinks in his heart, so it he." Proverbs 23:7. We can be Christian and follows God's word, but if we don't have the right mindset, then our blessings will be blocked.*
> 
> ...


 

I agree with the above.  I wasn’t going to come back in and post, especially after seeing so many great responses, but I feel I must put my point of view out there.
I totally understand where people are coming from regarding their view of the LOA vs the bible.  Just because I understand it, does not mean that I totally agree with it. My issue, however is when people say that if you practice it you’re going against God, listening to the word of the devil or what have you. I’m not referring to anyone in this post. I’m just saying in general, because this is not the first time I've heard this. I am a religious person and believe in God. I pray several times a day and don’t think I’m a horrible person. However, I take offense to people telling me that because I practice the LOA that I’m following the devil.  No one knows anything about me or where I’ve come from, so how can you judge me? I thought the whole purpose of Christianity was NOT to judge. Yet in still, when there’s a point of view that conflicts with “typical Christian thinking” then it’s the devil’s work. I have never understood how people who claim to be so “Christian” don’t think that’s judging. 
I think the LOA is a good thing. Some may agree, some may not and that’s fine. We can agree to disagree. Quoting what I put down and then trying to “prove your point” by quoting scripture or what have you is not going to change anything for me. If you think that I’m practicing the devil’s word then so be it. When it comes down to it, I don’t answer to you. I answer to GOD. When I practice the LOA and things go well for me, I thank G-O-D and NOT the universe. I know that God loves me regardless as long as I’m living my life the way he planned for me to.  Somehow, I don’t think God is going to love me any less because I practice the LOA (which in MY opinion only) is similar to what God’s message is. I’m not putting anyone or anything before God. However, if someone not knowing me wants to assume that about me, then so be it. 
Like I said, we can agree to disagree. Someone can come in here, quote what I have just written and try to convince me otherwise to make a point. Like I said, I understand everyone’s point of view.   I just may not agree with it totally, and you know what? That’s just fine. I've been doing pretty well all this time (with the LOA and God),  so I must be doing something right.
I don’t think any differently of anyone else or think they’re following the devil because they have an opinion that is different than mine. Like I said, only God will judge me. Period.


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## tmichelle (Aug 7, 2008)

tyefrmy said:


> I agree with the above. I wasn’t going to come back in and post, especially after seeing so many great responses, but I feel I must put my point of view out there.
> I totally understand where people are coming from regarding their view of the LOA vs the bible. Just because I understand it, does not mean that I totally agree with it. My issue, however is when people say that if you practice it you’re going against God, listening to the word of the devil or what have you. I’m not referring to anyone in this post. I’m just saying in general, because this is not the first time I've heard this. I am a religious person and believe in God. I pray several times a day and don’t think I’m a horrible person. However, I take offense to people telling me that because I practice the LOA that I’m following the devil. No one knows anything about me or where I’ve come from, so how can you judge me? I thought the whole purpose of Christianity was NOT to judge. Yet in still, when there’s a point of view that conflicts with “typical Christian thinking” then it’s the devil’s work. I have never understood how people who claim to be so “Christian” don’t think that’s judging.
> I think the LOA is a good thing. Some may agree, some may not and that’s fine. We can agree to disagree. Quoting what I put down and then trying to “prove your point” by quoting scripture or what have you is not going to change anything for me. If you think that I’m practicing the devil’s word then so be it. When it comes down to it, I don’t answer to you. I answer to GOD. When I practice the LOA and things go well for me, I thank G-O-D and NOT the universe. I know that God loves me regardless as long as I’m living my life the way he planned for me to. Somehow, I don’t think God is going to love me any less because I practice the LOA (which in MY opinion only) is similar to what God’s message is. I’m not putting anyone or anything before God. However, if someone not knowing me wants to assume that about me, then so be it.
> Like I said, we can agree to disagree. Someone can come in here, quote what I have just written and try to convince me otherwise to make a point. Like I said, I understand everyone’s point of view. I just may not agree with it totally, and you know what? That’s just fine. I've been doing pretty well all this time (with the LOA and God), so I must be doing something right.
> I don’t think any differently of anyone else or think they’re following the devil because they have an opinion that is different than mine. Like I said, only God will judge me. Period.


 
While I don't know if any one is judging you or not, please be careful in all your beliefs as we all must.  As you stated only God will judge you, and He will indeed by His Word.  So I know you said you don't care if people quote scripture or not, that it won't change your mind, but let the scripture (not the people quoting it) dictate to you your beliefs.  Don't write off what the Word of God says because you disagree with someone's beliefs, let the Word become your belief.

No one should disregard scripture (God) because they think that they are above it and in the end God will say, "Well, she was basically a good person, I know that she never followed what I told her to do but I like her anyway."  I mean God can say that, but I wouldn't stake my eternal soul on it, that is doing what I want to do and not what God has put in His Word.


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## Demi27 (Aug 7, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> While I don't know if any one is judging you or not, please be careful in all your beliefs as we all must.  As you stated only God will judge you, and He will indeed by His Word.  So I know you said you don't care if people quote scripture or not, that it won't change your mind, but let the scripture (not the people quoting it) dictate to you your beliefs.  Don't write off what the Word of God says because you disagree with someone's beliefs, let the Word become your belief.
> 
> No one should disregard scripture (God) because they think that they are above it and in the end God will say, "Well, she was basically a good person, I know that she never followed what I told her to do but I like her anyway."  I mean God can say that, but I wouldn't stake my eternal soul on it, that is doing what I want to do and not what God has put in His Word.



Hmmm I understand totally but I NEVER said anything about disregarding His word. I read the bible and go by His word. If I didn't then that would make me a hypocrite. I only said that we all can have different points of view, and that I don't think I'm following the devil because I practice the LOA and believe in God.


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## Shimmie (Aug 7, 2008)

tyefrmy said:


> Hmmm I understand totally but I NEVER said anything about disregarding His word. I read the bible and go by His word. If I didn't then that would make me a hypocrite. I only said that we all can have different points of view, and that *I don't think I'm following the devil because I practice the LOA and believe in God*.


You cannot serve two masters.  For you will serve one and hate the other.

The loa is your 'back-up' actually your substitute for God.   Don't be fooled, you ARE serving two masters.  One is of the world who has chosen to leave God out of their life decisions and also to use God as justification or to shadow the truth regarding their lack of TOTAL and Complete faith in God and God alone. 

Look if you wish to follow the loa principles than that is of course your choice, and your right to make that life decision.   However, do not put God in it where He is not.    The examples of trusting God and only God have been placed before us in His word.   The word of God plainly and without error, shows us how His chosen served Him and trusted Him and Him alone.

When David called upon the Lord, God answered.   Not loa.

When the three Hebrew children chose not to bow down to the idols of King Nebercanzzer (sp?), it was not the loa that they trusted in, but God who delivered them in the fiery furnace.

Daniel wasn't saved from the Lions den because of the loa, it was God whom He trusted in which stilled the mouths of the lions who would have killed him otherwise.

If you read your Bible, it was the world's system and choice of other gods, that these men chose *not to serve*.  They refused to bow to any other god, no matter what the price.  They didn not succomb to the world's belief system.

It was God who opened the wombs of barren women, not the loa.  

It was God who raised Jesus from the dead, NOT the loa.

God is not a fool.  He knows who believes in HIM totally and those who waiver and are mixed in the world's concepts of unbelief. 

If you believe God than Believe God.   You have no need of any witchcraft to 'bring forth' the material things which you desire.

Did you know that loa is indeed the root of witchcraft?    I know what I'm talking about.  You can disagree until Jesus comes.  But dear one, it is the practice of witches who focus and meditate and 'bring forth' from the universe the material matters which they desire.    Again, I KNOW what I'm talking about.  

You have been greatly deceived...greatly.   And if you are truly a follower of God and His son the Lord Jesus Christ, you will fall on your face and ask HIM and not the loa for the direction of your life.

Don't think for one minute that the loa is going to deliver you from the paths of destruction.  The devil has you and other Christians hood-winked.  

You, the biggest deception of the loa is that it has the same principles of the Bible.   Here's an eye opener.   the loa has taken credit for what the Bible has proclaimed since it's beginning.   

If the loa is Bible, then why not use your Bible ... period?   What do you need from the loa?  You have lost your committment to God alone.  You can deny it, but you've gotten a taste of something, the delusions of having what you want without prayer and waiting on God to manifest the answers in HIS time as opposed to YOUR time.   

satan knows what he's doing.  he's seducing those who would be committed to God with the lusts of the flesh, of the eyes, and of the heart which has been deceived into thinking they can bypass the real responsibilities of a real relationship with God.

You've been deceived and hood winked.  If not, then walk away from the world and give your heart to God and trust Him and Him alone.   Otherwise one day, you are going to come to the end of yourself and as a balloon deflates, so will your strength, and the only thing you can do is look to God and say, 'have mercy on me' for not allowing you to be Lord of my heart, Lord of my desires, Lord of my life.  

Let's be honest, if you truly followed Jesus, there's no room for anything else.  God is not mocked; He cannot be revised or dethroned.  

loa.... lies of the adversary.


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## PaperClip (Aug 7, 2008)

To address believing/serving/pledging allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ while simultaneously practicing loa:

James 1:5-8 (Amplified):
If any of you is deficient in wisdom, let him ask of [b]the giving God [Who gives] to everyone liberally and ungrudgingly, without reproaching or faultfinding, and it will be given him. Only it must be in faith that he asks with no wavering (no hesitating, no doubting). For the one who wavers (hesitates, doubts) is like the billowing surge out at sea that is blown hither and thither and tossed by the wind. For truly, let not such a person imagine that he will receive anything [he asks for] from the Lord, [For being as he is] *a man of two minds* (hesitating, dubious, irresolute), [he is] *unstable and unreliable and uncertain about everything [he thinks, feels, decides].*

Upon discovery of being "a man of two minds", instruction to RESIST the enemy (the enemy being anything and everything contrary to the Lord Jesus Christ, including loa) and PURIFY oneself of that double-mindedness:

James 4:7-9 (Amplified):

So be subject to God. Resist the devil [stand firm against him], and he will flee from you. Come close to God and He will come close to you. [Recognize that you are] sinners, get your soiled hands clean; [realize that you have been disloyal] wavering individuals with divided interests, and purify your hearts [of your *spiritual adultery*]. [As you draw near to God] be deeply penitent and grieve, even weep [over your disloyalty]. Let your laughter be turned to grief and your mirth to dejection and heartfelt shame [for your sins].
 Ha! loa  = SPIRITUAL ADULTERY?!


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## tmichelle (Aug 7, 2008)

tyefrmy said:


> I agree with the above. I wasn’t going to come back in and post, especially after seeing so many great responses, but I feel I must put my point of view out there.
> I totally understand where people are coming from regarding their view of the LOA vs the bible. Just because I understand it, does not mean that I totally agree with it. My issue, however is when people say that if you practice it you’re going against God, listening to the word of the devil or what have you. I’m not referring to anyone in this post. I’m just saying in general, because this is not the first time I've heard this. I am a religious person and believe in God. I pray several times a day and don’t think I’m a horrible person. However, I take offense to people telling me that because I practice the LOA that I’m following the devil. No one knows anything about me or where I’ve come from, so how can you judge me? I thought the whole purpose of Christianity was NOT to judge. Yet in still, when there’s a point of view that conflicts with “typical Christian thinking” then it’s the devil’s work. I have never understood how people who claim to be so “Christian” don’t think that’s judging.
> I think the LOA is a good thing. Some may agree, some may not and that’s fine. We can agree to disagree. *Quoting what I put down and then trying to “prove your point” by quoting scripture or what have you is not going to change anything for me.* If you think that I’m practicing the devil’s word then so be it. When it comes down to it, I don’t answer to you. I answer to GOD. When I practice the LOA and things go well for me, I thank G-O-D and NOT the universe. I know that God loves me regardless as long as I’m living my life the way he planned for me to. Somehow, I don’t think God is going to love me any less because I practice the LOA (which in MY opinion only) is similar to what God’s message is. I’m not putting anyone or anything before God. However, if someone not knowing me wants to assume that about me, then so be it.
> Like I said, we can agree to disagree. Someone can come in here, quote what I have just written and try to convince me otherwise to make a point. Like I said, I understand everyone’s point of view. I just may not agree with it totally, and you know what? That’s just fine. I've been doing pretty well all this time (with the LOA and God), so I must be doing something right.
> I don’t think any differently of anyone else or think they’re following the devil because they have an opinion that is different than mine. Like I said, only God will judge me. Period.


 


tyefrmy said:


> Hmmm I understand totally but I NEVER said anything about disregarding His word. I read the bible and go by His word. If I didn't then that would make me a hypocrite. I only said that we all can have different points of view, and that I don't think I'm following the devil because I practice the LOA and believe in God.


 
Oh good.  What you wrote that I bolded had me thinking that no matter what scripture said, you weren't going to listen.  I'm glad you clarified.  Also, be careful not to judge others too harshly calling people "Christian".  I used to do that all the time until I realized that I just didn't know.


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## Demi27 (Aug 8, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> You cannot serve two masters. For you will serve one and hate the other.
> 
> The loa is your 'back-up' actually your substitute for God. Don't be fooled, you ARE serving two masters. One is of the world who has chosen to leave God out of their life decisions and also to use God as justification or to shadow the truth regarding their lack of TOTAL and Complete faith in God and God alone.
> 
> ...


 
Okay. I'm going to say this as tactfully as I can. I don't deny that you obviously have strong beliefs. More power to you.

However, I FULLY RESENT YOU TELLING ME ABOUT ME WHEN YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ME. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. When you came into this thread and quoted scripture to everyone when they had an opinion about something, I didn't come in here, quote you and say that YOU and YOUR beliefs were wrong.  Why? Because I know that God loves you regardless of what I feel.  I am very happy that you follow the word of God to the letter, but when was the last time that you were with me when I went to church? When was the last time that you were with me during the day and prayed? When was the last time you were with me I did read my bible? You weren't. So I fail to understand how you (or anyone else in this thread who feels the same as you), not knowing me one day of the 34 years of my life is such an expert in MY belief of God. I understand that you say that you know of what you speak, but who said that YOUR way was the only way? So essentially, you're saying that if no one believes God and the bible the exact way that you do, then we're all sinners? I'm sorry, but I don't understand that.

The bible is interpreted in many different ways by many different groups. Everyone interprets the bible in their own way. However, because you interpret the bible in one way does not mean that you're any better than someone else and their beliefs. That is the way you're coming across whether you mean to or not. The way it's coming across is you, as an "Christian" person, judging me. Once again, I thought the whole purpose of being a TRUE CHRISTIAN was NOT judging people. Yet in still, here you are condemning me and telling me that what I think and believe is wrong and the work of the devil.

I don't need you, someone who has never had any dealings with me what-so-ever coming onto this forum and telling me that I'm using the LOA as a substitution for God. Quite frankly, I resent it and don't appreciate it. 

We can "argue" about this until we're both blue in the face. Once again, we can agree to disagree.  However, if you're a true Christian, then you need to let me live my life the way that I am. If I said I believe in God, then I believe in God. I NEVER said that I was using the LOA to manifest material things. LOA is positive thinking. That's what I use it for. I don't put any material thing over God because that is a sin. Once again, when you have personal dealings with me and see me do that, then you have all the right to come and attack me. 

I'm not going to be coming in to this particular forum anymore. I shouldn't have even come back, but I take personal offense when someone attacks me about ME, MY BELIEFS, and MY INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE. You can respond back to this or not, either way it's fine. I guess I need to ask, did YOU actually read "The Secret" or any of the LOA books? I just want to make sure that people, before they actually condemn somthing have actually read and/or researched it for themselves.  I'm going to assume that many people have not read them.

In any case, you can come back in and quote scripture to this post if you want. I'm not going to respond any more to this particular post and I'm not bitter or mad. I'm not going to follow anyone into any other forums and attack them, because that's not my style. I just pray that you be tolerant of others and their interpretation of God, even if you disagree with them.   

Good night.


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## Aggie (Aug 8, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> You cannot serve two masters. For you will serve one and hate the other.
> 
> The loa is your 'back-up' actually your substitute for God. Don't be fooled, you ARE serving two masters. One is of the world who has chosen to leave God out of their life decisions and also to use God as justification or to shadow the truth regarding their lack of TOTAL and Complete faith in God and God alone.
> 
> ...


 
I most vehemently agree with this entire post Shimmie especially the bolded. This brings me to an interesting point - I feel that the reason why God had to destroy the tower of Babel and create a rift between the men of those days via language barriers was because of the *high imaginations* of their hearts at that time. They were going on the strength of their own will and God eventually had to put a stop to it. They had completely taken Him out of the equation and relied on their own will. They set their heart to do a thing that was obviously not in the will of God and He intervened.

Bottom line, there are consequences for every action we choose to take. Thank you OP for creating this thread for those of us who have gotten tricked by these subtleties of the devil. He is indeed like a roaring lion (in sheeps clothing) seeking whom he may devour. 

Oh children of the living God who believe in these lies of the devil, pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit concerning loa and it's subtleties. Allow your hearts to hear His still small voice as He ministers to you. Let us pray, confess, repent and be converted because our enemy the devil seeks to sift us as wheat.


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## Aggie (Aug 8, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> To address believing/serving/pledging allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ while simultaneously practicing loa:
> 
> James 1:5-8 (Amplified):
> If any of you is deficient in wisdom, let him ask of [b]the giving God [Who gives] to everyone liberally and ungrudgingly, without reproaching or faultfinding, and it will be given him. Only it must be in faith that he asks with no wavering (no hesitating, no doubting). For the one who wavers (hesitates, doubts) is like the billowing surge out at sea that is blown hither and thither and tossed by the wind. *For truly, let not such a person imagine that he will receive anything [he asks for] from the Lord, [For being as he is] a man of two minds (hesitating, dubious, irresolute), [he is] unstable and unreliable and uncertain about everything [he thinks, feels, decides].*
> ...


 
Well said FoxyScholar!!!


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

tyefrmy said:


> Okay. I'm going to say this as tactfully as I can. I don't deny that you obviously have strong beliefs. More power to you.
> 
> However, I FULLY RESENT YOU TELLING ME ABOUT ME WHEN YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ME. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. When you came into this thread and quoted scripture to everyone when they had an opinion about something, I didn't come in here, quote you and say that YOU and YOUR beliefs were wrong. Why? Because I know that God loves you regardless of what I feel. I am very happy that you follow the word of God to the letter, but when was the last time that you were with me when I went to church? When was the last time that you were with me during the day and prayed? When was the last time you were with me I did read my bible? You weren't. So I fail to understand how you (or anyone else in this thread who feels the same as you), not knowing me one day of the 34 years of my life is such an expert in MY belief of God. I understand that you say that you know of what you speak, but who said that YOUR way was the only way? So essentially, you're saying that if no one believes God and the bible the exact way that you do, then we're all sinners? I'm sorry, but I don't understand that.
> 
> ...


Don't be upset.  You're allowing your 'offense' to be your defense.   

Knowing you is not what's presented here.  Is the god you are serving.   Christians who are involved with the loa are literally committing spiritual adultery.   They've chosen to serve and depend upon a god outside of God, who is our Father, Provider, Healer, and Guide in Heaven here on earth.

Christians who are involved with the loa have simply chosen satan as their 'sugar daddy'.   Afterall, what are they doing in loa?  Asking the universe, (not God) to supply their desires.  

And I am speaking of those who profess to be Christians.  As Christians we are here to 'follow Jesus Christ' and to follow no other.  Jesus said, 'Follow Me".  We are here to seek His face and His hand and not the hand nor face of another.

Being offended does not change the Truth.   Your faith is not solely dependent upon Jesus Christ our Lord.  For me to sit here and sugar coat it, would be a lie.

And it's not 'my' belief or opinion, it's God's word completely.  Read the book of Hosea, was this not about God's example of His children seeking other gods.  It's all through the word of God.

My words are not against You nor anyone else personally who in involved with the loa.   It is the loa -- period -- that I am coming against and it's deception and its hold upon Christians who have become caught up in it.    Christians are losing their grip on Jesus Christ and are self-willing 'things' into their lives.   Self-will is witchcraft.  

I know what it's like to seek after 'alternative' helps to get my needs met.  But I've also learned that only God is my Master and Saviour and My Lord.  When I gave my heart to Him, it was solely to Him and I have no other need for 'outside' gods.

God has never failed me.  And He never will.  

For the sake of love, I ask you to challenge yourself.   Leave the loa and place your faith Totally upon God and God alone.   Jesus Christ.    Come on, challenge yourself.   Better than that, make a solid decison, a quality decision, a life or death decision.   Drop the loa and all of it's hold upon you, and Follow Jesus Christ and depend upon Him for your needs and desires and Him alone.   

What do you have to lose?   What do you have to lose?   You'll lose your soul with loa, but with Jesus, you will have an everlasting life with Him.  

Leave the loa... leave it.   Give it all to Jesus and trust Him for all of your needs.   What are you fearful of?

If you can't let the loa go, or if you are unwiling then it's proof that you are seduced into satan's deception.   It like being a herion / crack addict.  It  has you hooked and you hunger for it.    If this is not so, then let it go.  Stop defending what's destroying your faith in God. 

God calls us to serve Him and Him alone.   

Which God will you serve?  As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.  

God bless you and I mean this with all of my heart.  :heart2:


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## gn1g (Aug 8, 2008)

Disclaimer:  have not read this thread.

Creflo Dollar is preaching a series called "How to get your harvest"  which is the christian version of LOA/Secret.


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

gn1g said:


> Disclaimer: have not read this thread.
> 
> Creflo Dollar is preaching a series called "How to get your harvest" which is the christian version of LOA/Secret.


 
Once again, there is NO Christian version of the loa/secret.  The loa has taken God's principles and have made them their own.   

Don't be deceived in making the wrong connections.  God is NOT of the loa.  I don't care what Creflo Dollar is preaching.  He better have it right and in line with God's word and only God's word.   Just because a preacher is preaching / teaching something does not make it gospel or God's word. 

My comments are not about you gn...    I'm attacking the subject the loa....which is not God.   There's a big mess and a lot of confusion going on with this mess.   Christians who are hungry and desperate for having things in their lives, are getting swooped up in the mass of confusion.   

Bottomline:   Serve God and only God.  That's God's word and His law.  There is no other for Christians to follow. 

Hugs and blessings.


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## Zuhus (Aug 8, 2008)

I have nothing to add to the thread, but once again, I will post one of my favourite scriptures; *Romans 14*


   Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. It is written:    " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 
   'every knee will bow before me; 
      every tongue will confess to God.' "So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother o fall.  So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.


'tis all saints 

Back to lurkville


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## tmichelle (Aug 8, 2008)

Ooh, I love it when scripture is quoted!  If only LOA/The Secret were as benign as food or celebrating a special day to the Lord.


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## PaperClip (Aug 8, 2008)

Zuhus said:


> I have nothing to add to the thread, but once again, I will post one of my favourite scriptures; *Romans 14*
> 
> 'tis all saints
> 
> Back to lurkville


 
Don't run back to lurkville. 

I declare, I declare. The word/concept of "judgement" should not even be discussed WITHOUT each and every single poster who uses the term to INCLUDE a definition/their definition of the term "judgement" because CLEARLY: there's no sound agreement on what this term means or when is should be RIGHTFULLY and ACCURATELY applied. I mean that WHOLEHEARTEDLY just like I said it.

Fundamentally, there are some things that any and every Bible-believing, Lord Jesus Christ-professing Christian ought to agree on: and the MAIN thing is that it is the LORD JESUS CHRIST who is LORD OF ALL and that NO OTHER gods should come before Him and NO IDOL WORSHIP! And further, when we see a fellow Christian going down that path, we are to ALERT, INFORM, CALL OUT/SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE, that person back to the LORD... gently...but firmly....

It is a worse offense to see your fellow brother going down the wrong path and not say anything. That person's blood is on YOUR HANDS.

Here's a reference that gets at what I'm doing my best to articulate.... Disclaimer: while this speaks to a person who is in ACTUAL SIN, my point is that there are plenty of other steps that lead to sin (or the iniquity that leads down the path to sin. *I am not (necessarily) saying that practicing loa is sinful, but it is DEFINITELY on the path toward sin, e.g., idolatry/spiritual adultery*): (my emphasis in *RED*)

http://www.bible-living.com/Default.asp?c=LIVING

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The "spiritual" are to "restore". Restoration is the process of returning something to a previous state; mending or repairing what has become damaged. *Nowadays, any time we speak of confronting or exposing sin, we are barraged with the "don't judge" clichés.* *The Bible most certainly commands us not to judge in a way that is hypocritical or unloving, but to declare that we are not to judge is both illogical and unBiblical.* It is illogical because we "judge" things every day to be right or wrong. Rape, murder, child molestation... we have no problem "judging" those as wrong because it doesn't apply to most of us. However, when we start "judging" lust, covetousness, gossip, laziness or stealing, that starts to step on too many toes, so the cries of "judgmental" start ringing loud and clear.[/FONT]

*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Judging" is not about what occurs in our private thoughts [/FONT]*
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](because every human instinctively and continually judges [/FONT]*
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]what they observe moment to moment), [/FONT]*
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]but more about how we ACT on that judgment. [/FONT]*​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In reality, the whole argument about judging is insincere and misplaced to start with. The fact is, that EVERY ONE, in the privacy of their own minds and thoughts constantly judges the behavior, decisions and actions of others as "right or wrong" *instinctively*. We call it "opinions" to make it more palatable to our politically correct and "tolerance-first" culture. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The real argument about "judging" does not actually pertain to the judging that occurs in the privacy of our minds, but whether or not we are willing (or obligated) to act on that judgment. *What people are really saying when they say "don't judge" is "don't act on your judgment, just let me do what I want and don't interfere in any way".**[/FONT]*
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Paul disagrees. And so did Jesus (Matt 7.1-5). Believer to Believer, we are commanded to judge sin, and to act on it. However, we are not to act out of our own sense of righteous indignation, nor for personal reasons. We are to act on our judgment of sin to 1) restore the sinner to holiness, 2) keep the Lord's family pure and free from sin, and 3) to guard and protect the reputation and name of our Savior. *[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The spiritual Christians are to restore the person caught up in sin; the motive behind judging and confronting the sin is love for the sinner, and the desire to repair and make whole their relationship with God. This restoration is to be done in a "spirit of gentleness"... in other words it is to be done in love, and on God's behalf, not for personal reasons of self-righteousness or control. As the restoration occurs, the spiritual Christian is to be careful how they proceed so that they themselves are not tempted. Tempted with what?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Judging sin, confronting sin and restoring the sinner involves the possible temptation of spiritual pride, and even the possibility of being caught up in the very same sin. For example, if I were confronting and restoring another Brother over some sin he is committing that I personally am not prone to commit, I could be tempted to become spiritually proud, and have a "look at how good I am" attitude. Or, I could be tempted into the very same sin. For example, if I was attempting to restore someone who had been "caught up" in pornography, I would need to be very careful about what I allowed my eyes to see, and ears to hear, lest I be tempted by the very same thing.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Taken all together, Paul is commanding us, without apology/explanation/excuse: "If you are discover a fellow Christian who is caught up in sinful behavior, then the spiritually mature Believers should gently confront them with the idea of restoring their relationship with God, and their place in the Body of Christ; but be careful and alert when you do it so that you will not be tempted to sin yourself in some way, whether in attitude or action."*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*"I don't want to get involved" and "I don't want to judge others" *[/FONT]
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]is not only unBiblical, it has caused us to lose [/FONT]*
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]valuable accountability and purity. [/FONT]*​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Gentle restoration" should be a basic practice among Christians. It's how we look out for each other, and maintain the purity of the Church body. It's a shame we don't practice it more, and that we bow to the pressure of "tolerance" and the cries of "don't judge." No doubt the Church would minister with much more effectiveness, and individually we would not be as engaged in sinful behavior if we had the *GOOD peer pressure* of mutual accountability. How much deterrence and assistance would it be if we all knew that our fellow Christians would not hesitate to "gently restore us" if they saw us engaging in sinful behavior? But all to often we hear "I don't want to get involved", "it's none of my business", "I don't want to be judgmental", "well I'm not perfect, who am I to say anything?". [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The purpose is the gentle restoration of someone who has fallen into sin. We should NOT be hypocritical about it, but neither should we go to the other extreme and wait until we are "perfect" before practicing this loving confrontation and restoration. Gentle restoration is a blessing that we are robbing ourselves of. This also answers the question 99% of time of how we are to respond when we are personally wronged by other Believers. Our first inclination is to punish, teach a lesson and get even. Our spiritual duty is to "gently restore" placing the care of their soul above our need for personal satisfaction. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Are you a Believer? Then you are commanded to participate as, or with, the "spiritual" Christians in gently restoring a fellow Believer who has been "caught" in sin. Paul said it, not me. [/FONT]
_[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lord God, Help us to learn the benefit of gentle restoration of those caught in sin. Help us to be on of those who are spiritual that can cautiously confront and gently restore. In Jesus' Name, Amen.[/FONT]_​[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Contemplation*: Have you ever confronted another Believer about sin they were caught up in? Have you ever been confronted? Do you see it as beneficial or "judgmental"? Could you explain to others the concept of "gentle restoration" and why Christian should practice it? [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Application*: Paul is commanding us, without apology/explanation/excuse: "If you are discover a fellow Christian who is caught up in sinful behavior, then the spiritually mature Believers should gently confront them with the idea of restoring their relationship with God, and their place in the Body of Christ; but be careful and alert when you do it so that you will not be tempted to sin yourself in some way, whether in attitude or action." [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]James 1:22 - But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. (NKJV)[/FONT]


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## tmichelle (Aug 8, 2008)

^^^ This is a bit off topic but it pertains to your post above Foxy Scholar.  What you said about the definition of judgement reminded me about what our Bible School teacher constantly emphasizes in class.  He says, we are not to usurp the Word of God and impose on it our meaning of words/concepts/ideas but we are to let the Word of God formulate and dictate to us its meaning and glean our understanding of words/concepts and ideas from it, not vice-versa.  I hope I said this clearly.  You are right in the concept that we need to be careful what definitions we put on God's Words.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 8, 2008)

:endworld:     Can we just agree to disagree.  those who believe the LOA/Secret is ungodly(me included) we can believe that and once we speak what we believe to be the truth about it, we have to leave it in God's hands.  For those who don't believe that LOA/Secret is ungodly, then it still is in God's hands, no need to explain yourselves to anyone.


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## PaperClip (Aug 8, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> :endworld:  Can we just agree to disagree. those who believe the LOA/Secret is ungodly(me included) we can believe that and once we speak what we believe to be the truth about it, we have to leave it in God's hands. For those who don't believe that LOA/Secret is ungodly, then it still is in God's hands, no need to explain yourselves to anyone.


 
Nope. That's another form of the passive agressive COP-OUT. The Bible says the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the VIOLENT take it by force. In other words, regardless of how seductive, enticing, seemingly harmless that loa appears to be, it is still an OFFENSE against the KINGDOM OF GOD because it is DIRECTLY CONTRARY to the full acknowledgement of the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ.

And I can still say all of what I said, speaking the TRUTH IN LOVE, without personal attacks or demeaning anyone personally. Those demonic forces that come seductively, to entice, and deceive the brethren have to be called out for what they are.

Now, one way that helps me to process your offer of "agreeing to disagree" is to do what Jesus did: 

Matthew 10:14-15: "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

"When you knock on a door, be courteous in your greeting. If they welcome you, be gentle in your conversation. If they don't welcome you, quietly withdraw. Don't make a scene. Shrug your shoulders and be on your way. You can be sure that on Judgment Day they'll be mighty sorry—but it's no concern of yours now." (The Message)


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 8, 2008)

tyefrmy said:


> Okay. I'm going to say this as tactfully as I can. I don't deny that you obviously have strong beliefs. More power to you.
> 
> However, I FULLY RESENT YOU TELLING ME ABOUT ME WHEN YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ME. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. When you came into this thread and quoted scripture to everyone when they had an opinion about something, I didn't come in here, quote you and say that YOU and YOUR beliefs were wrong. Why? Because I know that God loves you regardless of what I feel. I am very happy that you follow the word of God to the letter, but when was the last time that you were with me when I went to church? When was the last time that you were with me during the day and prayed? When was the last time you were with me I did read my bible? You weren't. So I fail to understand how you (or anyone else in this thread who feels the same as you), not knowing me one day of the 34 years of my life is such an expert in MY belief of God. I understand that you say that you know of what you speak, but who said that YOUR way was the only way? So essentially, you're saying that if no one believes God and the bible the exact way that you do, then we're all sinners? I'm sorry, but I don't understand that.
> 
> ...


 
No, the purpose of being a Christian is to live:

1 - A Christ-like manner (growing in the knowledge of Him..the One who is able to save your soul.)

2 - Leading others to Him via God's Word and His Word alone

3 - Loving God with all your might, soul and strength, and your neighbor as you love yourself.

It's time to "fine-tune" your spirit and ask God what He desires of you.


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## gn1g (Aug 8, 2008)

Now, now shimmie calm down. . . .


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 8, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Nope. That's another form of the passive agressive COP-OUT. The Bible says the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the VIOLENT take it by force. In other words, regardless of how seductive, enticing, seemingly harmless that loa appears to be, it is still an OFFENSE against the KINGDOM OF GOD because it is DIRECTLY CONTRARY to the full acknowledgement of the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ.
> 
> And I can still say all of what I said, speaking the TRUTH IN LOVE, without personal attacks or demeaning anyone personally. Those demonic forces that come seductively, to entice, and deceive the brethren have to be called out for what they are.
> 
> ...


 

I like that purple part.  This is all I'm saying.  If a person refuses to accept what a Christian knows to be divine truth, then it is not necessary not possible to force a person into accepting that truth.  I agree in taking the kingdom by force, but the kingdom includes believers,  we can't take everything by force, that include non-believers.  There are some people in this thread(forgive me, I am too lazy to go back and pull quotes) who believe in God and appear to have a relationship with him,  now if they believe that LOA/The Secret are ok, then there is nothing we can do except to warn them,  it is up to them to seek God's face and his ultimate answer(that is if they even have a question about the place of LOA in the body of Christ).  I don't recall Jesus arguing any points back and forth with anyone.  He said his peace, and he moved on to the next place, just like your scriptural reference above.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 8, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Nope. That's another form of the passive agressive COP-OUT. The Bible says the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the VIOLENT take it by force. In other words, regardless of how seductive, enticing, seemingly harmless that loa appears to be, it is still an OFFENSE against the KINGDOM OF GOD because it is DIRECTLY CONTRARY to the full acknowledgement of the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ.
> 
> And I can still say all of what I said, speaking the TRUTH IN LOVE, without personal attacks or demeaning anyone personally. Those demonic forces that come seductively, to entice, and deceive the brethren have to be called out for what they are.
> 
> ...


 
You are so right.  I'm sure when Jesus had began His ministry on the earth, there were people telling him to not speak as well on what He knew to be the truth, because He IS THE TRUTH!!!

There are some things you have to talk about


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 8, 2008)

Wow.......I'll just keep praying for all of you.

Blessings.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 8, 2008)

Thank you sis, for sharing your heart and your experiences.  You are truly a blessing on this forum and your heart is for God!  The Father has truly annointed you for such a time as this.

Keep standing....and after you have done all to stand...STAND!

For, God has made you a cutting-edge Woman of God and because of that, you will continue to be strong and do great exploits!

Be blessed, always...my sister and friend!




Shimmie said:


> You cannot serve two masters. For you will serve one and hate the other.
> 
> The loa is your 'back-up' actually your substitute for God. Don't be fooled, you ARE serving two masters. One is of the world who has chosen to leave God out of their life decisions and also to use God as justification or to shadow the truth regarding their lack of TOTAL and Complete faith in God and God alone.
> 
> ...


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 8, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> You are so right. I'm sure when Jesus had began His ministry on the earth, there were people telling him to not speak as well on what He knew to be the truth, because He IS THE TRUTH!!!
> 
> *There are some things you have to talk about*


 
True, talking about it is one thing, but are we to try to convince anyone?

I don't personally believe in trying to convince anyone.  It should be the love of Christ that we exude, along with the knowledge that we share from the Bible that makes non-believers _want_ to know more.  Being convinced is a choice, it can't be forced upon anyone.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 8, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> True, talking about it is one thing, but are we to try to convince anyone?
> 
> I don't personally believe in trying to convince anyone. It should be the love of Christ that we exude, along with the knowledge that we share from the Bible that makes non-believers _want_ to know more. Being convinced is a choice, it can't be forced upon anyone.


 
As a pastor, I understand the fruit of labor.  For some, like yourself, it may seem that I'm trying to convince people.  I don't have to convince them, the Holy Spirit is the One who brings revelation to a human being about their lives apart from God, not me.  However, He uses me to bring His Word in season and out of season.... and because of that, I speak.

There are some things I'm quiet on...and then, there are other things that I'm not.

I'm not going to apologize for it....I never will.  

It's not that we don't have the love of Christ....actually WE DO and that's why we do it.  If we don't care, then we wouldn't say a word and you will hear many crickets in the CF.

You may not know it, but I can tell you that I receive many, many, many pm's from people who are grateful for me speaking the truth IN LOVE and sharing the way I do.  Many I have even spoken to over the phone and have prayed for and led to salvation.  These same people have said that they didn't want to say anything within the CF, but felt led to pm me about it...now for me, that's what its all about.

Therefore, if its called "shoving down people's throat" then I say....

OPEN WIDE!

Bless you.


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## PaperClip (Aug 8, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> I like that purple part. This is all I'm saying. If a person refuses to accept what a Christian knows to be divine truth, then it is not necessary not possible to force a person into accepting that truth. I agree in taking the kingdom by force, *but the kingdom includes believers, we can't take everything by force, that include non-believers.* There are some people in this thread(forgive me, I am too lazy to go back and pull quotes) who believe in God and appear to have a relationship with him, now if they believe that LOA/The Secret are ok, then there is nothing we can do except to warn them, it is up to them to seek God's face and his ultimate answer(that is if they even have a question about the place of LOA in the body of Christ). *I don't recall Jesus arguing any points back and forth with anyone.* He said his peace, and he moved on to the next place, just like your scriptural reference above.


 
Let's reason together in the word.

Taking by force (imho) means to DEFEND THE KINGDOM against evildoers and SPREAD RIGHTEOUSNESS with a violent (or strong, courageous) nature.

Winning souls for Christ is done violently as well: violent in our love for the Lord Jesus Christ. We exact the strategies that the Lord gives us to win souls VIOLENTLY, COURAGEOUSLY.

I'll step out on a limb here and say that the Lord Jesus Christ did nothing PASSIVELY. He was VIOLENT about all things pertaining to the Kingdom: "reasoning" with the Pharisees, healings and miracles, even conversing with the devil in the wilderness. Violent doesn't mean choking people or cussing them out. Violent means being courageous, vigilant, active.

Jesus talked with/argued/reasoned with the Pharisees and Saduccees often. Now He wasn't cussin' them out. But He was savvy and strategic in His arguments to the point that He SHUT THEM DOWN....  And not only did He shut down their arguments, those same folk had to admit that the Lord's arguments were sound, and right...and they were WRONG.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 8, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> As a pastor, I understand the fruit of labor. For some, like yourself, it may seem that I'm trying to convince people. I don't have to convince them, the Holy Spirit is the One who brings revelation to a human being about their lives apart from God, not me. However, He uses me to bring His Word in season and out of season.... and because of that, I speak.
> 
> There are some things I'm quiet on...and then, there are other things that I'm not.
> 
> ...


 
I am not saying that assertively speaking the truth in love is wrong.  Quite the opposite, it is righteous.  It just seems a waste of time to try to nurture a seed in infertile ground.  God can always make a seed grow, but we don't have that same ability.  Once the seed is planted, then we have to give it to God in prayer.  I do like your approach.  I just don't agree with what you may call "shoving down people's throat"  I had this happen to me years ago and it actually kept me away from the church for a while, because I felt attacked as opposed to loved.  People tried and succeeded for a time to make me feel hopeless and unworthy for the salvation of Jesus.  God is the one who took those seeds and brought it to my attention and led me to the truth.  I just worry about those who have genuine longing for God's truth being dismayed by the devil keeping us occupied arguing with those who he has in his grasp and who don't want to leave his grasp.--I see it as a great distract.



FoxyScholar said:


> Let's reason together in the word.
> 
> Taking by force (imho) means to DEFEND THE KINGDOM against evildoers and SPREAD RIGHTEOUSNESS with a violent (or strong, courageous) nature.
> 
> ...


 
I disagree with the bold--but  I am open to further explanation.  I also see a difference between arguing and reasoning.  Reasoning is open minded.  arguing isn't.  When Jesus was on the mountain with the devil, he didn't argue he shut the devil down.  When did the Pharisees and Saduccees admit that they were wrong?  They still crucified Jesus.


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## PaperClip (Aug 8, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> I am not saying that assertively speaking the truth in love is wrong. Quite the opposite, it is righteous. It just seems a waste of time to try to nurture a seed in infertile ground. God can always make a seed grow, but we don't have that same ability. Once the seed is planted, then we have to give it to God in prayer. I do like your approach. I just don't agree with what you may call "shoving down people's throat" I had this happen to me years ago and it actually kept me away from the church for a while, because I felt attacked as opposed to loved. People tried and succeeded for a time to make me feel hopeless and unworthy for the salvation of Jesus. God is the one who took those seeds and brought it to my attention and led me to the truth. I just worry about those who have genuine longing for God's truth being dismayed by the devil keeping us occupied arguing with those who he has in his grasp and who don't want to leave his grasp.--I see it as a great distract.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with the bold--but I am open to further explanation. I also see a difference between arguing and reasoning. Reasoning is open minded. arguing isn't. When Jesus was on the mountain with the devil, he didn't argue he shut the devil down. When did the Pharisees and Saduccees admit that they were wrong? They still crucified Jesus.


 
argue and reason are SYNONYMS. When we hear the word "argue", it can be narrowly defined as being confrontational. That is not the only definition/context in which the word is used.

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argue
_intransitive verb_ 1 *:* *to give reasons for or against something* *:* reason <_argue_ for a new policy> 2 *:* *to contend or disagree in words :* dispute <_argue_ about money> _transitive verb_ 1 *:* to give evidence of *:* indicate <the facts _argue_ his innocence> 2 *:* to consider the pros and cons of *:* discuss <_argue_ an issue> 3 *:* to prove or try to prove by giving reasons *:* maintain <asking for a chance to _argue_ his case> 4 *:* to persuade by giving reasons *:* induce <couldn't _argue_ her out of going> 


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reason
1 a*:* a statement offered in explanation or justification <gave _reason__s_ that were quite satisfactory> b*:* a rational ground or motive <a good _reason_ to act soon> c*:* a sufficient ground of explanation or of logical defense; _especially_ *:* something (as a principle or law) that supports a conclusion or explains a fact <the _reason__s_ behind her client's action> d*:* the thing that makes some fact intelligible *:* cause <the _reason_ for earthquakes> <the real _reason_ why he wanted me to stay — Graham Greene>2 a (1)*:* the power of comprehending, inferring, or thinking especially in orderly rational ways *:* intelligence (2)*:* proper exercise of the mind (3)*:* sanity b*:* the sum of the intellectual powers3_archaic_ *:* treatment that affords satisfaction

Thesarus entry for "argue":
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/argue

Entry Word: argue Function: verb Text: 1 to state (something) as a reason in support of or against something under consideration <Luis _argued_ that a bake sale would make a lot less money than a car wash>

*Synonyms: *assert, contend, maintain, plead, *reason*


*Related Words*claim, insist; affirm, aver, avouch, avow; advance, offer, propose, submit; advise, counsel, recommend, suggest, urge; convince, persuade; advocate, champion, espouse, support; explain, justify, rationalize; consider, debate, discuss; counter, disprove, rebut, refute 2 to express different opinions about something often angrily <Francesca didn't _argue_ with her little brother the whole time they were at Walt Disney World>
*Synonyms*bicker, brawl, dispute, fall out, fight, hassle, quarrel, row, scrap, spat, squabble, wrangle

*Related Words*challenge, dare, defy; clash, contend, contest; cavil, fuss, nitpick, quibble; consider, debate, discuss; kick, object, protest 

*Phrases*bandy words, fall foul

*Near Antonyms*coexist, get along; accept, agree, assent, concur, consent 3 to cause (someone) to agree with a belief or course of action by using arguments or earnest requests <_argued_ my parents into letting me go to the movie> — see persuade 4 to talk about (an issue) usually from various points of view and for the purpose of arriving at a decision or opinion <candidates _arguing_ gun control in the televised debate> — see discuss 



Reasoning can certainly be done from a closed-minded perspective as well.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 8, 2008)

So are Christian to reason with close minded individuals?


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## PaperClip (Aug 8, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> So are Christian to reason with close minded individuals?


 
The Holy Spirit gives Christians the charisma to minister, the wisdom to know how to minister, and the discernment to know when it is time to pause....

One planteth, another watereth, but God gives the increase.

1 Corinthians 1:1-7: And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking  like mere men? For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men? What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.

From The Message:

1-4But for right now, friends, I'm completely frustrated by your unspiritual dealings with each other and with God. You're acting like infants in relation to Christ, capable of nothing much more than nursing at the breast. Well, then, I'll nurse you since you don't seem capable of anything more. As long as you grab for what makes you feel good or makes you look important, are you really much different than a babe at the breast, content only when everything's going your way? When one of you says, "I'm on Paul's side," and another says, "I'm for Apollos," aren't you being totally infantile? 

 5-9Who do you think Paul is, anyway? Or Apollos, for that matter? Servants, both of us—servants who waited on you as you gradually learned to entrust your lives to our mutual Master. We each carried out our servant assignment. I planted the seed, Apollos watered the plants, but God made you grow. It's not the one who plants or the one who waters who is at the center of this process but God, who makes things grow. Planting and watering are menial servant jobs at minimum wages. What makes them worth doing is the God we are serving. You happen to be God's field in which we are working.


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## HeChangedMyName (Aug 8, 2008)

Makes sense,  you approach people at the level they are on, not the level that you wish they were on or that you may be on yourself.  Got it!!  Just to clear things up.  I too don't believe that there is a place for LOA/The Secret in the body of Christ, nor do I feel it is necessary , nor do I feel that it is of God.


----------



## tmichelle (Aug 8, 2008)

Yeah, I suppose there is a time when you realize that you are throwing pearls to swine or giving what is holy to dogs, Biblically speaking of course.


----------



## Aggie (Aug 8, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Nope. That's another form of the passive agressive COP-OUT. *The Bible says the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the VIOLENT take it by force. In other words, regardless of how seductive, enticing, seemingly harmless that loa appears to be, it is still an OFFENSE against the KINGDOM OF GOD because it is DIRECTLY CONTRARY to the full acknowledgement of the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ.*
> 
> And I can still say all of what I said, speaking the TRUTH IN LOVE, without personal attacks or demeaning anyone personally. Those demonic forces that come seductively, to entice, and deceive the brethren have to be called out for what they are.
> 
> ...


 
Wow FoxyScholar, I really admire your zeal for God and your strong desire to see His Kingdom come because ultimately that's what our work for His Kingdom is all about - seeing to it that none is lost through prayer and encouragement for all to do that which right and pleasing to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 

Here is my testamony:  I was one of those christians caught up in this LOA mess and even though I felt a slight tugging on my heart by the Lord that this was not right, I continued to listen and read it's contents, getting further and further away from God. Then one day I woke up and I could not feel His presence anymore. This went on for a long time and finally I had to stop and seek the Lord on His silence and I got no answer. Not until I read this thread - then finally BAM!!! it hit me - I had ignored His admonition concerning loa. 

As I was reading through these pages, I got an amazing conviction and I sensed God's presence fill my room and touched my heart as I was looking for the secret book and DVD to chuck them - *WOW - He was back and I wept bitterly, because I missed His Presence and I missed His Presence a lot. What touched me the most was the swiftness of His response to my actions.* I could not believe that I had caused His withdrawal from me, especially when I say that I love Him so much.  

I imagined Him in the background waiting all this time for me respect His request to get rid of those DVDs and book. Now I have the peace I had from before I bought the secret (loa) again and now I am happy again. Praise the Lord! 

We as christians know and hear His voice when He speaks and sometimes He speaks through some of us. I thank God that I was listening this time. *Thanks again FoxyScholar and Shimmie for not being afraid to allow God to use you as instruments to "take His Kingdom by force" even if it was just to take ME ALONE out of the clutches of the enemy. Remember Jesus Himself will leave the 99 safe sheep to go and look for ONE lost sheep. *

Heavenly Father I honor and praise You now for the passion You have placed in FoxyScholar, Nice & Wavy and Shimmie today for their unashamed love of Your Kingdom. I ask divine favor over them in everything that they do and cause whatever they do for Your glory to prosper, in Jesus' Name, Amen.


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Nope. That's another form of the passive agressive COP-OUT. The Bible says the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the VIOLENT take it by force. In other words, regardless of how seductive, enticing, seemingly harmless that loa appears to be, it is still an OFFENSE against the KINGDOM OF GOD because it is DIRECTLY CONTRARY to the full acknowledgement of the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ.
> 
> And I can still say all of what I said, speaking the TRUTH IN LOVE, without personal attacks or demeaning anyone personally. Those demonic forces that come seductively, to entice, and deceive the brethren have to be called out for what they are.
> 
> ...


I love it.... you said, 'Nope'.... Excellent word sis...excellent.  

Why is it that we are expected to accept any and everything and not speak up?   YET the devil and do and say whatever he wants and not be accused of judgment.   I'm not turning all four cheeks just to allow satan free entry to put his lies out regarding our faith in Jesus Christ.   

Your entire response is beautiful and it's the Truth.  

Thank you.


----------



## PaperClip (Aug 8, 2008)

Aggie said:


> Wow FoxyScholar, I really admire your zeal for God and your strong desire to see His Kingdom come because ultimately that's what our work for His Kingdom is all about - seeing to it that none is lost through prayer and encouragement for all to do that which right and pleasing to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
> 
> Here is my testamony: I was one of those christians caught up in this LOA mess and even though I felt a slight tugging on my heart by the Lord that this was not right, I continued to listen and read it's contents, getting further and further away from God. Then one day I woke up and I could not feel His presence anymore. This went on for a long time and finally I had to stop and seek the Lord on His silence and I got no answer. Not until I read this thread - then finally BAM!!! it hit me - I had ignored His admonition concerning loa.
> 
> ...


 
Wow, Aggie! What an awesome praise report! To the Lord Jesus Christ be ALL GLORY, HONOR, AND PRAISE!!!!!

And to be mentioned in the same breath as Shimmie and N&W is beyond honorable for me!


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

I apologize for everyone that I have offended in this thread and even those reading.  I do...

But I do not apologize for exposing the devil and his lies.  And I never will.

Christians have a higher calling to not only live up to, but a faith that is build upon the Rock, not sinking sand.  

Instead of the loa and other new age methods of the world's system, we have the following:

The Blood of Jesus which was shed for us and covers us with a Covenant that cannot be duplicated by counterfeits.

We have free entry to the throne of Grace

We have an Advocate with God the Father

We have a Royal heritage, we are a Royal priesthood in Jesus Christ.

When we have a need, we only have to go to Him and no other to have our needs met and we are never short-changed. 

I remember growing up in Christ with the "Mothers" of the Church who took me under their wings and taught me well. 

Instead of the loa, we have fasting and prayer and we have torn down many a stronghold that the enemy had upon our loved ones and others in and out of our lives.

We had (and still do) shut-ins; all night prayer sessions; and the miracles and the bonding that brought us closer to Jesus.  

We have Bible studies and the word of God flows and embeds itsself deep within our hearts and our spirits. 

We have home prayer meetings; we gather together to enjoy fellowship and have prayer that breaks yokes of bondage. 

What am I saying?   We as Christians have all that we need in Jesus and nothing and no one else.  

My heart breaks to see Christians lose the benefits of being a child of God.  Nothing that I've shared in this thread was meant to hurt anyone.  It's the deception that I am against.  I see how satan is trying to sneak the loa into the hearts and minds of Christianity.   he has to be exposed, otherwise Jesus will no longer be the one who is worshiped in our Churches, Homes, our hearts.

This is what satan has been after all along.   he's still after stealing God's glory and to have himself worshiped instead of God.   What better trophy for satan then to have those who profess to be Christians, serving him instead.   To him, it's a slap that he wants to rub in God's face, with a mocking retort, "Hey, I have another one of your followers, now following me...."  

No one in this thread is being judged.  We are simply exposing satan and what he's trying to do.   'Sift us as wheat." 

I wish nothing but love and blessings for each and every person here.  And I wish everyone "Total Jesus."  :heart2:  Afterall, He died for us so that we wouldn't have to seek hell for a bisquit.


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

Aggie said:


> Wow FoxyScholar, I really admire your zeal for God and your strong desire to see His Kingdom come because ultimately that's what our work for His Kingdom is all about - seeing to it that none is lost through prayer and encouragement for all to do that which right and pleasing to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
> 
> Here is my testamony:  I was one of those christians caught up in this LOA mess and even though I felt a slight tugging on my heart by the Lord that this was not right, I continued to listen and read it's contents, getting further and further away from God. Then one day I woke up and I could not feel His presence anymore. This went on for a long time and finally I had to stop and seek the Lord on His silence and I got no answer. Not until I read this thread - then finally BAM!!! it hit me - I had ignored His admonition concerning loa.
> 
> ...


Oh Father God in Heaven, I thank you so much for precious Aggie and her love for you and the beauty of her heart and testimony.   

Father, thank you for giving her "You".   Her love for you is filling my heart with so much humility.   I thank you for her life, her love, her heart and that you are showing her just how happy you are that she is your joy.  

Bless her and keep her Father God.  Bless this precious love of yours and with all of my heart, I thank you for bringing her into our lives.  In Jesus' name, Amen and Amen.  
---------

Aggie, I don't know what to say except that God is so loving to us.   My testimony is very similar to you.   Years ago before I got saved, I used to have books on witchcraft.  I started to read them out of being hurt in my life and I wanted to be in control of what I 'wanted' to happen in my life. During the time that I was 'exploring' witchcraft, I had the nerve to actually read the Bible and mis-use scriptures.   I was so wrong...so very wrong.  

But Aggie, God kept tugging at my heart.  He wouldn't let me go.  One day, He came into my heart like a warm flood of flowing love and He gave me a new perspective, the Truth about His word.   He also prompted me to throw away all of the books I had on witchcraft.  At first, my thought was, I still needed them and to keep them 'just in case.'   But God would not let me continue with that mindset.   When I finally threw them 'ALL' away, that's when my life exploded with the love and pure word of God.   

God placed me under several mentors in a good Church and there I learned what real power and real control was all about.   That was total surrender to God and God alone.   I must say that I was 'strongly' challenged in my growth with Jesus.  But it only made me stronger in Him.   And there has not been one day or one moment that I have ever been without knowing His presence in my life.   There's nothing that God won't do for me.  

He promise me that if I abide in Him and if His Word abides in me, that I can just ask what I will and it shall be given unto me.  And precious Aggie, He has done so and so much more.   

I am so far from perfect.  Each day, God has to 'deal' with me about something...yet, He never gives up on me.  Never.  

God bless you precious Aggie... God bless you.  

How I love Jesus.


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Wow, Aggie! What an awesome praise report! To the Lord Jesus Christ be ALL GLORY, HONOR, AND PRAISE!!!!!
> 
> And to be mentioned in the same breath as Shimmie and N&W is beyond honorable for me!


You are such a beautiful blessing to me, "RR" / Foxy Scholar.  

It is I who is honored to be named among you and Precious Wavy.  We are not in this life alone.  It's beyond cyber sisterhood.   The two of you live in my heart.


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

gn1g said:


> Now, now shimmie calm down. . . .


    I agree gn1g.   

After reading Aggie's testimony, I'm too humbled to be riled.  And I do apologize for firing up, but it is about the subject loa, not you or anyone else.   I promise you that, gn.   I wasn't coming against you.


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> You are so right.  I'm sure when Jesus had began His ministry on the earth, there were people telling him to not speak as well on what He knew to be the truth, because He IS THE TRUTH!!!
> 
> There are some things you have to talk about


  True sis, so true.   

satan has no problem speaking his pieces of lies.  God told the prophet Jeremiah to speak what God told him to speak and be not afraid to do so.


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thank you sis, for sharing your heart and your experiences.  You are truly a blessing on this forum and your heart is for God!  The Father has truly annointed you for such a time as this.
> 
> Keep standing....and after you have done all to stand...STAND!
> 
> ...


I love you too sister precious  .


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Don't run back to lurkville.
> 
> I declare, I declare. The word/concept of "judgement" should not even be discussed WITHOUT each and every single poster who uses the term to INCLUDE a definition/their definition of the term "judgement" because CLEARLY: there's no sound agreement on what this term means or when is should be RIGHTFULLY and ACCURATELY applied. I mean that WHOLEHEARTEDLY just like I said it.
> 
> ...


I'm humbled...

Thanks Foxy Scholar


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## Aggie (Aug 9, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Wow, Aggie! What an awesome praise report! To the Lord Jesus Christ be ALL GLORY, HONOR, AND PRAISE!!!!!
> 
> And to be mentioned in the same breath as Shimmie and N&W is beyond honorable for me!


 


Shimmie said:


> Oh Father God in Heaven, I thank you so much for precious Aggie and her love for you and the beauty of her heart and testimony.
> 
> Father, thank you for giving her "You". Her love for you is filling my heart with so much humility. I thank you for her life, her love, her heart and that you are showing her just how happy you are that she is your joy.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you FoxyScholar and Shimmie, but it was the Lord who inspired me to write on these pages. I didn't want to but He knudged me along and I didn't want to disobey Him any further anyway. I cannot afford to lose His presence again, it is too high a price to pay - life without His presence *for me* is not easy. I never want to be without His felt presence again.

"Oh my Jesus, I am far far far from perfect but Oh how I do love You, now and always. Heavenly Father forever be praised."


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## yodie (Aug 10, 2008)

Aggie,

What you wrote touched me deeply.  I just got chills all over. 
Thank you for allowing The Holy Spirit to work through you and for sharing your precious message.

Shimmie, thanks for speaking the word, even when it's not popular to do so. 

God is so patient.


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## Aggie (Aug 10, 2008)

yodie said:


> Aggie,
> 
> What you wrote touched me deeply. I just got chills all over.
> Thank you for allowing The Holy Spirit to work through you and for sharing your precious message.
> ...


 
It was the Lord's doing and it is certainly marvelous in my eyes. Thank you Yodie. I asked the Lord to give me the words and I would write them and I prayed that it would reach someone who allowed their heart to be in tuned with His and......He did.


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## MrsQueeny (Aug 10, 2008)

Aggie said:


> It was the Lord's doing and it is certainly marvelous in my eyes. Thank you Yodie. I asked the Lord to give me the words and I would write them and I prayed that it would reach someone who allowed their heart to be in tuned with His and......He did.



Reading your testimony gave me chills. Thank you. Q


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## bluediamond0829 (Aug 10, 2008)

I have watched the Secret dvd and this was what i kind of was thinking about today in Church.  

I like the ideas of waking up everyday and thinking of what you are grateful for and thinking positive and positive things will happen.  I like that whole idea the thing i have somewhat a problem with is the part about the vision board.  Im grateful for having the honda civic car that I have and it being able to get me back from point A to point B and even further with God's will.  But i'm not wanting for a mercedes just because its a mercedes and i see other people driving it.  Im grateful for just having a car.  So i cant see putting a picture of a mercedes on a vision board and visualizing having this because im grateful for what God has given me.  

Just like i would love to have a home one day But i feel that when God has it in his plans for that day to come it will come and he will make a way for it.  I dont feel like visualizing having a particular house will make it come any faster than God has in his plans for me.  I'm grateful for having a place to lay my head down and to call my own even if im renting it.  

Maybe im interrupting the entire vision board wrong.  I looked at a girlfriends vision board and it was alot of what she wants(to make a million dollars so she had wrote herself a check, to be married, to have children, to have a certain house a certain car. )

I think that the vision board should be words of inspiration or things(like family, God, etc) that im grateful for to keep me going like inspirational words.  

Or maybe its to of a materialistic idea and approach.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

bluediamond0829 said:


> I have watched the Secret dvd and this was what i kind of was thinking about today in Church.
> 
> I like the ideas of waking up everyday and thinking of what you are grateful for and thinking positive and positive things will happen.  I like that whole idea the thing i have somewhat a problem with is the part about the vision board.  Im grateful for having the honda civic car that I have and it being able to get me back from point A to point B and even further with God's will.  But i'm not wanting for a mercedes just because its a mercedes and i see other people driving it.  Im grateful for just having a car.  So i cant see putting a picture of a mercedes on a vision board and visualizing having this because im grateful for what God has given me.
> 
> ...


  You have such a beautiful heart.  What I'm sharing below is not about you personally.  I just wanted to put that out there, okay?  

Already satan has come in with his spirit of confusion.  the loa is a weapon of destruction and a means of separating humanity from a total relationship with God. satan is still trying to overthrow the throne of God, and by means of luring whosoever will follow him, by covering his methods with the appearance of innocense and harmless methods and mind sets.

Everything and more that the loa is 'stealing' God's credit for is and has always been in God's word.  The real problem with the loa is that it is a mix of using God's principles while at the same time, deferring from God's order.

Of course satan is going to use (as his disguise) the obvious principles of God, for being thankful, thinking positive, and expecting great and wonderful things.   But on the under hand, he is distracting Christians by having them focus on the 'getting', the spirit of mammon, the spirit of the world.

Giving thanks unto God doesn't need the loa to teach a Christian that.  As Christians we should be greatful unto to God without any prompting from any outside source.   Just reading the Psalms in the Bible, contains all of the praises and thanks unto God far beyond the loa guidelines.

Having our needs and desires met, goes far beyond the loa with or without a vision board.   

Isn't sad to see Christians no longer in prayer or being consecrated before God, because they are more focused in manifesting pipe
dreams from the universe.   

Can you imagine how Jesus feels when He looks down and instead of on our faces worshipping Him, we're seeking the principles of the 'secret' dvd and the vast books that stem from it, instead of seeking wisdom from His word. 

As Christians, what are we doing?  What have we become so disappointed in with God and our life and dedication and relationship with Him, that we've been seduced to the other side to have our needs met?

There's nothing wrong with planning; writing a vision or a dream, keeping journals, logs, mapping out goals and objectives.   Our lives do have need of order.  But why go to the devil for instruction?   

There are so many levels of witchcraft used in the principles of the loa for it is witchcraft that it is its root and platform; which is 'self-will'.

Look, here it is plain and simple:

All that I have ever wanted, and have asked God for, He has never denied, unless it was harmful to me.  As Christians we have a relationship with Him that goes beyond any relationship that can ever exist.  For we are in Blood Covenant with the Most High God.   Think about.   God!  The Creator of ourselves; the Creator of all of Heaven and Earth and the Universe, is our Father and we are One with Him.  AND He created us to be just that, 'One with Him'.   

It's Amazing!  What more could or do we possibly need?  We have God!  Why would we ever 'defect' and humiliate Him by going over to the other side.  How can we do this to One so loving to us as He is.

There is no reason; no defense; no justification; no need to leave God's presence to even 'visit' another means of life.  None!

Jesus said plainly, that our Father knows what we have need of, and He will give it to us freely.

When we need peace, God gives it to us without reserve and surpasses our limited understanding. 

For every reason, every excuse, every cop out that Christians have and are using to be a part of the loa, God has already out done the loa by more than ten thousand of the weak excuses.  God has the 'all' and the 'every' that we could ever seek and need in our lives.  And it's all for free.  Jesus paid the price of it with His Blood for all of us.   

What Price selling out?   What Price a secret which is not a secret?  What Price the love of God?  What Price?  Whether 'we' see it or not, admit it or not, like it or not, it's selling out to another god. 

And it's sad watching Christians go out like that.  It's just plain sad.   

As Christians we fast and pray, not loa.

As Christians, we make the sacrifices of denying ourselves the lusts of the eye, and of the flesh to keep from being distracted from the real focus.  For the closer we become to the Lord, undistracted, the more powerful we are and are able to withstand the enemy, satan and stop him in his tracks. 

And satan knows this.  he knows that the closer we get to God, the more powerful we become against him.  And we are able to stop him from his wiles and schemes and destructive forces.   With our power in God, marriages are saved; children are saved and protected; there are restraints against so many evils of this world.  Sickness and disease loses its grip for our prayers are just the powerful to avail just that much power.   loa does not have the power to do such, nor bring us closer to god.

Look at God's word here; it speaks of satan's plan: (Isaiah 14)

12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
      O shining star, son of the morning!
   You have been thrown down to the earth,
      you who destroyed the nations of the world.
 13 For you said to yourself,
      ‘I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God’s stars.
   I will preside on the mountain of the gods
      far away in the north.[e]
 14 I will climb to the highest heavens
      and be like the Most High.’

Another translation:

13-14 

You said to yourself, 
   "I'll climb to heaven.
I'll set my throne 
   over the stars of God.
I'll run the assembly of angels 
   that meets on sacred Mount Zaphon.
I'll climb to the top of the clouds. 
* I'll take over as King of the Universe!"
*
Now, who does the loa promote seeking.......'the universe'; not god, but the universe, where satan abides. 

It's not a sin to have a mercedes, but who wants one from the hand of satan?  And for one to focus upon receiving what they want from the universe, other than God is idol worship.  To have a vision is not a sin, God gives us visions *it's scriptural*, but not without Him to lead and guide us. 

There's so much to tell about this...so much.  Yet who will listen?  Is having a car more important than having a relationship with God.  And with His relationship, He OWNS the cars and the cattle on a thousand hills.

All that we could ever want is All in Him, and He gives to us freely...

Lord Jesus, please have mercy upon us all.  Please have mercy.


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

Aggie said:


> It was the Lord's doing and it is certainly marvelous in my eyes. Thank you Yodie. I asked the Lord to give me the words and I would write them and I prayed that it would reach someone who allowed their heart to be in tuned with His and......He did.


Angel Aggie, God is using you far more than you realize.  I'm still so humbled by the love of our Father God.  

It's the pure presence of the Holy Spirit who has moved within your heart, not me or anyone else.  But God.......Praise Him.  :heart2:


----------



## jade998 (Aug 10, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> FS/RR: *No one* is sugarcoating it. I stated truth. LOA is a principle of God taught by Jesus and works with or without prayer and with or without God. Period.


 
How does something that is a principle of God, work without God ??????- That is a massive contradiction.

ETA: I just threw away my vision board. After reading this thread, it is like God was talking very strongly to me. I was spending my time looking at this vision board, instead of being on my knees praying and being in a relationship with God. I know how it is to say it has principles of the bible and that makes it okay, but it turns into a slippery slope to total non dependance on God.

I got so tired of being tired and I felt that God was holding back on me. But that doesnt change the fact that God is God, and I can only get to God, through the son, Jesus. He is the only one I should be looking at.

Wow... the enemy is very crafty indeed, but I refuse to hand him my soul!!!!!


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

yodie said:


> Aggie,
> 
> What you wrote touched me deeply.  I just got chills all over.
> Thank you for allowing The Holy Spirit to work through you and for sharing your precious message.
> ...


The Holy Spirit rules...:heart2: 

God bless you, jodie.  More than words, God bless you


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

jade998 said:


> How does something that is a principle of God, work without God ??????- That is a massive contradiction


It is and it isn't a massive contradiction.

It's simply put like this.   The world is not 'following' God; yet they go about their lives using all that He has provided in the earth.   The word of God says that it rains on the 'Just' and the unjust.   The 'Just' live by faith, faith in God and acknowledge God in all that they do.  They do not worship nor follow other gods.    The unjust, live by their ways and ignore or chose not to honor God for who He is.  

In the earth are laws are universal no matter what.  The laws of gravity; the four seasons, the 24 hour rotation of the earth, the rising and setting of the sun and the moon; the pull of the rotation of the earth upon its axis.  The laws of sowing and reaping - seedtime and harvest; the laws of reciprosity - we reap what we sow (plant).  

loa uses God's principle/laws and calls them their own.  Yet it's focus is directed 'from' God, not towards Him.   

One day, I'll take the time, as God leads, to do a detailed comparison of the loa verses God.  It's a tremendous eye opener.  

Blessings angel...


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## Aggie (Aug 10, 2008)

I know that perhaps many of you have already seen this but I thought that I'd share it here again as it seemed fitting for this topic. I found this in the archives christian section of the forum. Here is the link to the video: http://www.interviewwiththedevil.com/

And here are the actual words (long):
*INTERVIEW WITH THE DEVIL*
Good evening my child
It’s good to see you

I'm not your child

So you belong to the "other" one eh?

I belong to "the one"

Whatever
Many are under that illusion but they are really mine
Even the "other" one's son said many will say
"Lord, Lord didn’t we do miracles in your name?"
and He said, "Go away, you workers of iniquity
I never knew you."

Well, I sure knew them
If I have many who work miracles
can you imagine how many I have
who don't work miracles

Well I'm not one of those.

That's what “they” thought
I can see into your heart
you're one of mine

You're known as the father of lies
the great deceiver
I know not to believe you

I lie when it suits me
I tell the truth when it suits me
I'm at least honest about that 
You people rationalize
and make up excuses when you lie

You look different than I expected
you're actually rather good looking

What sense does it make to scare people?
I may be evil but Remember,
I was the most subtle creature 
in the garden

Disguise is a great tool

I kill over ten times more people
each year with cigarettes
than 357's, 38's, 22's, 45's,
9mm's, and rifles combined

People are afraid of all those guns
but no one is afraid of one of my greatest killers
That’s my great power of illusion and deception

One of your greatest killers
how many do you have?

More than you can imagine
I have killers that kill the body,
the mind, and the spirit

Do you know how many marriages I break up?
And the fools don't even know that it’s me

How do you do that?

Simple,
I just make them think about themselves
MORE than each other
Pride and self centeredness
has always been one of my greatest tools

Don’t you know that you are defeated?
Don’t you know that you can’t win?

So

I’ve been here for thousands of years and even by your book I’ve got many more. Many who live under my rule know they’ll spend eternity burning in hell. If you humans are willing to sacrifice all of eternity for a few decades of living it up imagine how I feel about a few thousand years.
Of course that “living it up” is my greatest illusion
I promise them bliss with
sex
drugs
alcohol
dishonestly
and many gratifications of the flesh
It lasts an average of 26 months before the futility
and misery begins to set in

26 months
where did you get that figure from?

Thousands of years of experience
Believe me, I know what I’m talking about
Besides, I may get defeated in the end
but I’ll still have more souls than the other one
a lot more
even your book says that
so who really wins?

But why do you like to make people miserable
and cause so much pain and destruction?

Sometimes I get more credit than I deserve
Some of you can be just as mean and hurtful as me
I don’t do all of that stuff
Much of that is from human flesh and the spirit of humans
Look at how many brothers and sisters are at each other’s throats
not speaking to each other
Kids hate parents and each other
I’m good at causing chaos
but I must admit
Human nature can get pretty low without my help


----------



## Aggie (Aug 10, 2008)

But you used to be an angel
why the big change?

That’s a long story
you wouldn’t fully understand
let’s just say
I got tired of taking orders
I didn’t want to be under anyone’s authority
I wanted to do my own thing
I wanted to be boss

Then again, maybe you would understand
Haven’t you ever felt like that?

Well haven’t you?

We are not interviewing me
we are interviewing you

Touched a nerve huh?
That little bit of not wanting to take orders
and wanting to self determine my own life
was my first step away from “the other one.”

Since it got me away
I use that same spirit on humans to get them away too

I just take a little of me and infuse it in

I’ve put that little bit of me in everyone
only a fool denies that

So what’s next
what are you planning now

I’m really planning a major shakeup
I’ve got some real nasty things cooking
I think I will be able to cause some heavy world destruction

Oh
you mean all of the international strife
and turmoil that’s happening

Nope, that’s the distraction
I’m real good at distractions
Sure
I’m causing some major world problems
but that isn’t what is really affecting most people

Beyond what they see in the news
and few price hikes here and there
it isn’t really impacting their world all that much

The major stuff I’m brewing messes up “their” world
not the international world

Fools are worrying about nations not getting along
and I have them not getting along with the people in the office

I’ve got them at war with the people they see everyday

I have them at war with the people under the same roof

I even have them at war with the person in the same bed

By the way
have you seen how I’ve really influenced who the other person
in the bed is these days?
I’m really proud of that

You see
the stuff they see on the news is the distraction

Your book says,
“Love thy neighbor”
not love thy “other nations”
I’ve got them hating their neighbor and the other nations too
Boy I’m good!

But why do you cause all of this destruction?

Have you ever squashed a bug?
I’m not talking about a mosquito that could bite you
or an insect that could sting you
but just an insect that could do you no harm
but you just squashed it for the heck of it

Well
have you ever squashed one
for the heck of it?
Or shall I say
for the hell of it?

Well have you?

I guess so

Well multiply that pleasure a million times over
I love squashing lives
hopes
dreams
joy
peace
life
health
prosperity
and harmony

I just love it!

Bugs
that’s the way I view all of you
helpless bugs to be squashed


----------



## Aggie (Aug 10, 2008)

Are you going to let me out of here
to tell people about your plans?
I mean if you are exposed people will get wise to you

I’m not going to stop you
you can’t harm me or my plans
I’ve been exposed from the beginning
your book says so

Plus
if you’ve been reading your book
and if you truly aren’t mine you’d know that I can’t stop you
I only have power over my people
not His

I’m nothing but “The Evil,”
shorten my name
from D’Evil 
to simply Devil
and that’s what I am

People have always known my nature

One hundred forty two million three hundred fourteen thousand
seven hundred and sixty two people
have committed adultery this year

All but three knew that it was wrong
so go ahead
tell them and see what good it does
They already know in their hearts what is right and wrong.

The “other” one wrote His commands in their heart
I just put a little of me in there also
I’ve got you humans and I ain’t letting go of you
but then most of you don’t want to let go of me either

I told you
I’m good at what I do

So what about Jesus
aren’t you afraid of Him?

Why should I be?
Look at the score
even He said it
“for wide is the gate, and broad is the way,
that leadeth to destruction
(destruction, that’s me)
and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way
which leadeth unto life
(life, that’s Him)
and few there be that find it.”

Notice that He said
“many would enter my path but few would even find His.”

Let me tell you something
everyone who finds His path still doesn’t enter

I get a lot of them standing at gate
knowing the way but undecided and still trapped
and unwilling to let go of my illusions
Oh yeah
I get a lot of them like that

You see
Finding and entering are two different things

When you add the score
I’ve got a wide path coming to me
That would be the equivalent
of an eight lane highway at rush hour

He has a narrow path coming to Him
that’s the equivalent of a small trail up a mountain
with only a few travelers every now and then

so why should I be afraid of Him?

But you get destroyed in the end

So
I will have reigned for thousands of years
and I’m going to take most of you with me

Don’t you have any mercy?

Mercy ain’t my thing
Never has been
never will be
that’s His thing

The only thing I’ve got is the illusion
that I can solve your problems
and bring you bliss

That illusion has been working
for thousands of years and it’s not slowing down

I tempt you puny humans with all of the stuff
of this world
Stuff that rots
and falls apart
and you fools keep falling for it


----------



## Aggie (Aug 10, 2008)

I’m going to expose this to thousands of people!
I’m going to expose you for what you are!
I’ll make people see!

You’ll expose this to thousands
maybe even millions
but I’ll tell you what will happen

They will enjoy it
some will say “amen,”
some will forward it to others
but they won’t change

For each three thousand four hundred and twenty-two
who are mine who see this
only ONE will change
only ONE

You fool! Only one will change
I will keep the others

I also know this from experience
I’ve got and will keep most of you

ONE in 3,422!
I keep 3,421!
So what have you got to say about that?

Jesus already said it
"I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven
over ONE sinner who repents
than over ninety-nine just persons
who need no repentance.”
(Luke 15:7 NKJV)


If you are that one and wish to pray the Prayer of Salvation
CLICK HERE http://www.virtualchurch.com/salvation.html

I put this in here because of the many ways satan seek out to deceive us and how subtle he is in his approach to cause us to lose our souls. Be careful my sisters and brothers in Christ, know the wiles of the devil and resist him, he has no choice afterwards to flee from you. To him we are just bugs he wishes to squash.


----------



## Aggie (Aug 10, 2008)

jade998 said:


> How does something that is a principle of God, work without God ??????- That is a massive contradiction.
> 
> ETA: I just threw away my vision board. After reading this thread, it is like God was talking very strongly to me. I was spending my time looking at this vision board, instead of being on my knees praying and being in a relationship with God. I know how it is to say it has principles of the bible and that makes it okay, *but it turns into a slippery slope to total non dependance on God.*
> 
> ...


 
Wow jade998, thank you for sharing this with us. Indeed that's exactly what it does - cause us not to depend on God and He said, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - not even LOA as good as it may seem or sound.


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## Aggie (Aug 10, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> *The Holy Spirit rules...*:heart2:
> 
> God bless you, jodie. More than words, God bless you


 
Yes He does Shimmie, yes He does.


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

Okay, I'm going to post some articles until I can post my own comparisons regarding this critical issue of Christians and the dangers of being involved in the loa.

The following article is located at: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/june/20.71.html

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/
_Christianity Today,_ June, 2007 _The Secret_ Exposed
 Why Oprah and millions of readers can be wrong.
*Mel Lawrenz* | posted 6/18/2007 08:47AM

You can gain anything you want in life—wealth, health, the perfect mate, business success, respect from others—literally anything. That is the promise of the No. 1 best-selling book _The Secret_ (Beyond Words). The editor, Rhonda Byrne, explains that "the secret" can be found in everything from Babylonian religion to Buddhism to Albert Einstein. _The Secret_ (available as both a book and a DVD) is no secret now, however. It has become a global video event, a clever cross-promotional marketing plan, and a book touted by Oprah.


Byrne, an Australian television talk-show producer, discovered the secret just over two years ago. The book's contributors are described on the official website as: a "philosopher" who "developed The Science of Success and Harmonic Wealth® which teach [sic] people how to yield unlimited results in all areas: relationally, intellectually, physically, and spiritually" (James Arthur Ray); a "business building and moneymaking" expert (John Assaraf); a "doctor," "philosopher," and "international speaker" (John DeMartini); a "metaphysician" and "one of the top marketing specialists in the world" (Joe Vitale); and "a nonaligned, trans-religious progressive" (Michael Beckwith). Such titles reveal the new kind of gurus to whom millions of people give credence today.


The secret is simply "the law of attraction." Think about wealth, and you will become wealthy. Think about that new car, and it will come. Think about getting a good parking spot, and one will open up. Think about your ideal weight (really, dwell on that number, write it on your scale), and you will attract that reality to yourself. Byrne reports that since deciding her "perfect weight" was 116 pounds, she has reached it, and nothing has moved her from it, no matter what she does or eats.


"Thoughts are magnetic, and thoughts have a frequency," the book assures us. "As you think, those thoughts are sent out into the universe and they magnetically attract all like things that are on the same frequency. Everything sent out returns to the source. And that source is you."
Now here's the bad news: Whatever happens to you—the good and the bad—was attracted by your thoughts. Appendicitis? Auto accident? Poverty? You brought it on yourself.

*Obsessed with the Self*


*Bible verses are misquoted.   *Ray, "an expert on many Eastern, indigenous, and mystical traditions," says: "Here's the question I want you to consider—do you treat yourself the way that you want other people to treat you?" Ray's twist on the Golden Rule becomes the ultimate form of self-centeredness.   *Oh, and you can attend Ray's "harmonic wealth weekend" for only $997. Somebody has figured out how to attract wealth to himself.*


*The Secret, you see, is all about the self—it's for the self, obsessed with the self.* 

_Newsweek_ offers this critique: "On an ethical level, _The Secret_ appears deplorable. It concerns itself almost entirely with a narrow range of middle-class concerns—houses, cars, and vacations, followed by health and relationships, with the rest of humanity a very distant sixth."


Professor Robert Thompson of Syracuse University says: "_The Secret_ promises this heaven on Earth in one fell swoop by simply desiring something, by simply wanting it. It's amazing how we really are a nation of, at best, great optimists, at worst, real suckers."


*What The Secret reveals is that so many people are so desperately unhappy that they will snatch up anything offering hope—or simply offering quick and easy wealth.* 



*My question is, who will be there to pick up the pieces when they discover that they bought into a lie? And who will help the people who believe that they brought every misfortune on themselves because they sent negative thoughts and feelings out into the universe like a human radio transmitter?*


How different from the message of Jesus: _The first will be last, and the last will be first. Lose your life, and you will find it._

*Seizing Faith*


To illustrate the contrast, consider Pete Greig and his wife, Samie. The Greigs were energetic leaders of a prayer movement called 24-7, which began in England and expanded to dozens of countries. If anyone had the ability to move divine power, it was Pete. One morning six years ago, however, Samie awoke but felt as if her extremities were still asleep. Then, as Pete watched, helpless, Samie's body began to contort and convulse.
Testing revealed a brain tumor the size of an orange. Surgery followed. Successful surgery. But not complete healing. Samie had epilepsy, somewhat controlled by medication. At times, Pete still finds his wife convulsing on the ground where their two young boys go to school.


Pete, who wrote the new book _God on Mute: Engaging the Silence of Unanswered Prayer_, told me that on two occasions he prayed during a seizure and watched as the episode seemed miraculously to subside. But there have been hundreds of other seizures. Pete and Samie have experienced the kind of faith during which we throw ourselves on the mercy of God. We see such faith in the Thursday prayer of agony in the Garden of Gethsemane. 



In Jesus' prayer from the cross on Good Friday. In the silence of Saturday. And then, _finally_, comes Sunday—Resurrection day.


*Contrary to the real gospel, The Secret proclaims: "The universe is supporting me in everything I do. The universe meets all my needs immediately."*


Byrne says she is most gratified to hear of children discovering _The Secret_. But having raised two kids, I've always thought that one of the most important lessons young people must realize is that the universe does not revolve around them, that they are not God. When we believe in a God above us, apart from us, beneath us, and for us—_then_ we find help and hope.
______________________________
_
_Mel Lawrenz, senior pastor of Elmbrook Church in Brookfield, Wisconsin_.
Copyright © 2007 Christianity Today.  Click for reprint information.


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

I like this one... 

http://law-of-attraction-for-christians.blogspot.com/2008/02/ultimate-law-of-attraction.html

Monday, February 11, 2008   * The Ultimate Law of Attraction *

   The aim of creating this blog is too take a Christian stance to the recent buzz created by the movie and book the Secret on the age-old theory called the law of attraction. I have tried to explain that I feel deep within me that absolutely every body experiences this so-called law of attraction as sure as we all experience the warmth of the sun every day it shines without any consideration of whether we are good or bad, or to paraphrase what one of the teachers of the secret said, “…if anyone falls of a building, it doesn’t matter whether you are a good person or bad person, you’re gonna hit the ground.” 

*My issue is the god-like status they give you without realizing that if what they claim is completely true, we’d be living in a chaotic universe because everybody has different needs.* If you want to get my point, go into a store or supermarket and watch shoppers making decisions and then changing their minds. If the catalog of the universe could be accessed like those of superstores, then you’d understand my point.

I don’t think its too much to repeat myself on some important points: there is a God who is in charge of this universe including our little home called planet earth. We need to align our desires with his will for us to make any important progress in this so-called manifesting process.



*Sowing and reaping*
I believe quite well that this is a spiritual universe. We need to sow the right words and I believe that once they are well planted in the spiritual, then definitely that seed would grow and produce fruits in the physical.

For me to say every word gets sown properly in the spiritual and definitely produces fruit in the physical would be like repeating what the teachers of the secret have been saying.  Some words definitely produce fruits. One of the exercises given in the movie on the process of manifesting what you want is to start with a cup of coffee. *Let me say again that if manifesting any thing you wanted could come no matter what, every teacher of the secret would be a least on the list of billionaires we have on earth.*

Sowing seeds that would definitely germinate and produce fruits in reality.

_“Look in the scroll of the Lord and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order and his Spirit will gather them together.” Isaiah 34:16_

*When the word of God and His Spirit work together in our words and prayers, then what I call the ultimate law of attraction takes place.

*Let me give you another verse that confirms that:

_“Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, ‘Let there be light,’ and there was light.” Genesis 1:2,3_
*You can see that with the Spirit of God and His Word working hand in hand, creation took place. This truth happens even today.* *

Most Christians who are serious with God study scriptures to know the mind of God. If you do that constantly and have a real relationship with your creator, then speaking His word in your life would definitely cause a real manifestation that would astound you.*

*Setting Intentions
*
The so-called teachers of The Secret and their students teach about the power of intentions. They say just set an intention and the universe would bring it to you unfailingly. Of recent, I visited the blog of Joe Vitale, one of the teachers, and I was surprised to see that he has completely reversed his opinion on intentions. He doesn’t believe you could just set any intention and have it granted. He presently prefers what he calls inspired intentions. He claims he prefers to have some form of inspiration on the intentions before sending them to the universe. That really proves that some of them are beginning to own up to the reality of the fact that a lot of their intentions don’t get manifested. 

The truth is setting intentions is really like what are called declarations in some Christian circles. The difference here is the fact that the Christians would take a verse whether right or out of context to justify their needs and state it to God or just out aloud to the world, while the way it is presented by the teachers of The Secret is just to present your desires. In the end, whether we quote scripture or not, as long as it is strictly our desires we are interested in and nothing else, we are doing the very same thing but giving it different names.

I do not agree with the fact that just any man would open the scriptures all the time without having any relationship with God to understand His sovereign desires for the world and your role in it, and just make any intentions or declarations to the world or the universe and have it come to pass. 

You want to experience the ultimate Law of Attraction? Have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. His Holy Spirit will be given to you to guide you and begin to tell you your role in the divine scheme of things, and manifesting things in line with that role would become simply understandable, though not necessarily easy or fast. My last post about getting a job would explain to you how the word of God in Scripture and my relationship help to bring about the desired result. If the job was not in line with my role in God’s sovereign plan on earth, I’d have had to kiss that job good-bye.
________________________________________

Ricky Macharm has a great free resource blog, http://law-of-attraction-for-christians.blogspot.com/ containing different articles. Visit today.
________________________________________

There are some really good points in this article.  I'm going to print it out and insert my comments and scripture references, then I'll post it.  I'm not sure how soon, I'm still helping my mom since her discharge from the hospital, but I'll let the Lord lead me.  He will.  If I post it, it will be His will and leading, not mine.  All will be shared in love. 

Hugs and blessings everyone...


----------



## MizzBrown (Aug 10, 2008)

The universe is supporting those folks? The universe meets all their needs immediately? 

Thanks Shimmie, that was a good finding. It's so blatant that LOA is against God in my opinion. I just don't understand how folks don't see that.


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

Aggie said:


> I’m going to expose this to thousands of people!
> I’m going to expose you for what you are!
> I’ll make people see!
> 
> ...


Aggie, Aggie, Aggie.... 

Angel Aggie, I wrote in a post to you earlier in this thread, that God is using you to His glory and in a mighty way.   The Holy Spirit is truly flowing in your heart.   

I'm in tears, total tears as I'm typing, because if you only knew how much it means to see what God is doing here.   God bless you and keep you far above the enemy.    A pure woman of God you are.

Aggie, we can't afford to stagger in our faith.  satan wants to 'water' us down as Christians to weaken us against him.   God has simply used you and so many of us here to 'confirm' each other as we share God's word about this. 

My heart is sadden for the precious hearts that I have personally offended.   One has shared that she will not come back to this forum; I cried about that.   But I couldn't break my stand; I couldn't sugar coat this issue.  It's really that critical.   And look what God has done.  First you and now Jade.  This is all God's doing.  The sisters in this thread did not hold back God's word.  And God IS going to have His way no matter what. 

For you Angel Aggie    I cannot thank God enough for you.  This is all His glory and no one elses.


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## Aggie (Aug 10, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Aggie, Aggie, Aggie....
> 
> Angel Aggie, I wrote in a post to you earlier in this thread, that God is using you to His glory and in a mighty way. The Holy Spirit is truly flowing in your heart.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks so much for your love and support of the Father's Kingdom Shimmie and your encouraging words. It pleases me to know that He is using all of us in the advancement of His kingdom for His glory, Amen.


----------



## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

jade998 said:


> How does something that is a principle of God, work without God ??????- That is a massive contradiction.
> 
> ETA: I just threw away my vision board. After reading this thread, it is like God was talking very strongly to me. I was spending my time looking at this vision board, instead of being on my knees praying and being in a relationship with God. I know how it is to say it has principles of the bible and that makes it okay, but it turns into a slippery slope to total non dependance on God.
> 
> ...


Jade... 

When I read your ETA, I just broke down and cried.  I still have tears in my heart; tears of humility and thankfulness.

You have literally turned your back on the tricks of satan and turned your face and your heart toward God.  And God will not hold back from you.  He wants us to seek Him and no other.   I've been there when I chose others and another way over His way.  But God loved me so much that He just waited for me, until I turned around and chose Him.

You may have given up that board of materialism but God has  not given up on your and neither the dreams that He has placed in your heart.   You see, God gave us the dreams and desires, and is it any wonder that He wants to be the one to bring them into manisfestation in our lives.  His dream, His gift of giving to us.  

You have not lost, but have gained so much more by choosing to seek and receive from God and God alone.  His ways are the 'High Ways' and the True ways, forever.  AND His gifts are without repentence.  He has no strings attached nor any regrets to bless us.

Look at what He gave me for you and for others who will receive His word:

[FONT=arial,helvatica][SIZE=-1]Psalm 31: 5 
Into thine hand I *COMMIT* my spirit: *thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth. *

Psalm 37: 5 
*COMMIT* thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and *he shall bring it to pass.* 

http://cgi.godsview.com/cgi-bin/rcdenig/pdchap.pl?file=15795&occ=17Proverbs 16: 3 
*COMMIT* thy works unto the LORD, and *thy thoughts shall be established.  
* 
Jade, because you and Aggie chose to commit your hearts, your spirit unto the Lord, He has redeemed you, He the Lord God of Truth, not the loa.

As for your dreams and loa vision methods, by committing these unto the Lord, your thoughts shall be established.   Ummmmm, that's that's REAL positive thinking.  His thoughts which are higher than our thoughts and His ways are higher than our ways.

And by committing our works (our plans, dreams, goals, etc.) He will establish not only your thoughts, but He will bring them to pass.   He will manifest them, the true way. 

Love and blessings angels.  Love and blessings far above and beyond your highest expectations.  In Jesus's name, Amen and Amen.  :heart2:
[/SIZE][/FONT] 
We as sisters in Christ are all in this together.  We have to pray and love our sisters back into the arms of Jesus and out of the hands of satan with this loa, for satan is out to sift them and sift them severely.   

I know I have offended many, but I'd rather them be offended than destroyed.   I care and love for them all, just that much.  I truly do.   Praise the name of Jesus, Amen.


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

[FONT=arial,helvatica][SIZE=-1]There's nothing God won't give to those who love Him and Trust Him.  Of ourselves, we can do nothing.....The scripture below is so key to the deceptions of loa and the Christian Believer.  To self-manifest is no good thing for nothing good is in us; it's only good if the manifestation comes from God.

[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial,helvatica][SIZE=-1]
http://cgi.godsview.com/cgi-bin/rcdenig/pdchap.pl?file=15811&occ=1Romans 7:18 ...... For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth *no good thing *: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.  [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvatica][SIZE=-1]http://cgi.godsview.com/cgi-bin/rcdenig/pdchap.pl?file=15803&occ=2
John 16:23 ..... Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, *HE WILL GIVE* it you.
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial,helvatica][SIZE=-1]
Matthew 6:33 ..........But *seek ye first the kingdom of God*, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.  
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial,helvatica][SIZE=-1]
Psalm 84:11.......... For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: *NO GOOD THING* will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.  

Love and blessings 
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial,helvatica][SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE][/FONT]


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2008)

MizzBrown said:


> The universe is supporting those folks? The universe meets all their needs immediately?
> 
> Thanks Shimmie, that was a good finding. It's so blatant that LOA is against God in my opinion. I just don't understand how folks don't see that.


 For you and your loved ones, MizzBrown.  

There's so much more ...so much.  But in time, the Lord will allow us to post it as it comes.  satan will still try to defend what he's doing and call it okay for Christians to participate in the methods of the loa.

Nevertheless, to God be the Glory....to God.  For it is in Him, that we live and move and breath and have our being.   In Him and no other.  

 In Jesus's Name, Amen and Amen.


----------



## bluediamond0829 (Aug 10, 2008)

jade998 said:


> How does something that is a principle of God, work without God ??????- That is a massive contradiction.
> 
> ETA: I just threw away my vision board. After reading this thread, it is like God was talking very strongly to me. I was spending my time looking at this vision board, instead of being on my knees praying and being in a relationship with God. I know how it is to say it has principles of the bible and that makes it okay, but it turns into a slippery slope to total non dependance on God.
> 
> ...



Very true.  i believe thats why i hesitated on doing a vision board and when i was going thru magazines i couldnt find anything like what my girl friend put together because it was materialistic IMO and it just didnt seem like needs and more of wants.  And i believe the power of prayer is 100% more powerful anyday than visualizing on pictures of material items.  

When i listened and went thru the dvd of the Secret and they were talking about the vision board the main thing that i did put in the center was God and the Church.  But i dont see me visualizing on God and the Church on such a thing that is surrounded by objects and people.  

I rather have put words on a board for inspiration but why do that like you stated just prayer along is more powerful than any board.  

I'm glad i finally sat down and went thru the thread because I feel 100% better and feel that there are others that share my objections to the secret and its principals of thinking.  

The Power of God is much more stronger.


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## Theo (Aug 10, 2008)

Hmm... not much to add, but I only heard about The Secret and LOA from LHCF and when I peeked into those threads they rubbed me the wrong way. I wikipedia'd it, and while the was nothing really "wrong" about it, it still didn't seem right.... so I left it alone. 

I also happened to come across a message by Joel Osteen on TV one day, and what he talked about seemed to be in a similar vein of what little that I had read on LOA. While none of his words had ever really bothered me (they never really stimulated me either), that particular message did (as did the fact that it was 15 min. long) and so now I don't listen to him either. 

Anyways, there are a lot of gray areas in life, the navigating of which may not be explicitly outlined in Scripture, which is why one should live in line with the leading of the Holy Spirit. Though He may speak to us in different ways, He will never lead us astray or contradict Himself. I think focusing on yourself or your material wants and needs will only lead you to becoming distracted and less in tune with the voice of God in your life. 

If you truly desire something, ask God to grant you the desires of your heart and LISTEN for His guidance to know what path He wants you to take. 1 Corinthians 2: 9 says, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them ..." So why limit yourself to only what you can envision for yourself.... we are so limited in our knowledge and experiences.... I personally want ALL of what God has for me, not just what I can comprehend!!!!


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## delp (Aug 10, 2008)

A principle is still a principle. what goes up must come down.  When you ignore him and his will you might not get  his best. You are left with your own wisdom which even if you think it is best might not be best b/c you don't know the things to come.


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## Aggie (Aug 10, 2008)

bluediamond0829 said:


> Very true. i believe thats why i hesitated on doing a vision board and when i was going thru magazines i couldnt find anything like what my girl friend put together because it was materialistic IMO and it just didnt seem like needs and more of wants. And i believe the power of prayer is 100% more powerful anyday than visualizing on pictures of material items.
> 
> When i listened and went thru the dvd of the Secret and they were talking about the vision board the main thing that i did put in the center was God and the Church. But i dont see me visualizing on God and the Church on such a thing that is surrounded by objects and people.
> 
> ...


 


freelove said:


> Hmm... not much to add, but I only heard about The Secret and LOA from LHCF and when I peeked into those threads they rubbed me the wrong way. I wikipedia'd it, and while the was nothing really "wrong" about it, it still didn't seem right.... so I left it alone.
> 
> I also happened to come across a message by Joel Osteen on TV one day, and what he talked about seemed to be in a similar vein of what little that I had read on LOA. While none of his words had ever really bothered me (they never really stimulated me either), that particular message did (as did the fact that it was 15 min. long) and so now I don't listen to him either.
> 
> ...


 


delp said:


> A principle is still a principle. what goes up must come down. When you ignore him and his will you might not get his best. You are left with your own wisdom which even if you think it is best might not be best b/c you don't know the things to come.


 
Very well said bluediamond0829, freelove and delp.


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## Ms.Honey (Aug 11, 2008)

I want to thank you ladies for breaking it down and explaining the tricks of the devil through his use of LOA. 

The devil is a counterfeiter and wants to take the place of God. He also has a church and has many worshippers. He is the prince of the air and he dwells in the second heaven (the universe) where LOA'ers seek their help and the desires of their hearts. I think we tend to forget the subtlety of Lucifer and how hard he is trying to displace the Lord from His throne. Getting a Christian to fall for LOA is a big coup for him, something for him to rub in God's face.

Pretty soon the testimonies of the LOA'ers will start to change. Instead of memory boards with images of things for them to consume upon their own lusts, their boards will consist of request for healing of dreadful diseases, basic needs and restoration of their families behind this mess. That's how the devil does his children, he always has. He is unfaithful and discards as garbage those who who take what he offers them when he's through with them.

LOA is a belief system, a religion and they do not understand that they're practicing witchcraft. They've made the universe their source(his kingdom), supplier of their needs and desires of their hearts and are serving/worshipping, albeit unknowingly, satan the destroyer and father of lies. 


Ladies let us please remember to keep ALL of the LOA'ers in prayer and intercede for them without ceasing. I for one am determined not to let Lucifer take one soul on my watch.


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## tmichelle (Aug 11, 2008)

jade998 said:


> How does something that is a principle of God, work without God ??????- That is a massive contradiction.
> 
> ETA: I just threw away my vision board. After reading this thread, it is like God was talking very strongly to me. I was spending my time looking at this vision board, instead of being on my knees praying and being in a relationship with God. I know how it is to say it has principles of the bible and that makes it okay, but it turns into a slippery slope to total non dependance on God.
> 
> ...


 
Yay!  May the Lord bless you with every spiritual gift for taking this step of faith.


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## tmichelle (Aug 11, 2008)

delp said:


> A principle is still a principle. what goes up must come down. When you ignore him and his will you might not get his best. You are left with your own wisdom which even if you think it is best might not be best b/c you don't know the things to come.


 
Yep.  Not a good idea to ignore God.


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## Mamita (Aug 11, 2008)

i haven't written in a long time in this forum...
i just wanted to add my 2 cents, i haven't read all the answers but a pahe and a half out of 6)

to me and any real hardcore christian we KNOW that everything we have comes from the Lord. Now people really seekign God and trying to please him and live the way he has always intended for us to live, the rules are not the same as people in the world.

U'll have people in the world saying it worked for them and why not... alot of things happen in the world that don't concern us (us the truly baptised in the water, saved, holy ghost filled people (i'm still seeking btw i don't claim i'm saved)). Now if u are a real christian (as in Christ like not as in the religion) u'll never ever claim that anything u have comes from the power of ur own will or spirit or suggestion or whatever bullcrap the secret claims. U KNOW it's all the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ ALL OF IT

those who are offended i'm sorry but this is my view, those who agree, u know who u are and what u stand for


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## PaperClip (Aug 11, 2008)

About this vision board thingie....

I had a "vision board" LONG BEFORE I ever heard of loa/the secret.

It's my visual version of my PROFESSION OF FAITH...my life plan/desires in pictures supported by the Word of God. It has pictures and magazine cut-outs of my wedding dress (yes, it is the Lord's will for me to be married); babies/family (yes, it is the Lord's will for me to bear children); my career aspirations (yes, it is the Lord's will for me to have a viable and enjoyable career); and various words and phrases that also align with the Word of God.

The Bible says to write the vision and make it plain (Habakkuk 2:2)


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## Highly Favored8 (Aug 11, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> About this vision board thingie....
> 
> I had a "vision board" LONG BEFORE I ever heard of loa/the secret.
> 
> ...




I have done this as well.


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## Highly Favored8 (Aug 11, 2008)

When I saw the "secert" on Oprah. I was very disapointed in the whole thing b/c They left out God in the equation and not only that, they took parts of the Bible that they wanted and not the whole Bible. IMHO you cannot have one with out the other. 

Now here is an interesting tid bit. In loa is used in Voodoo. It is used in several different rites/rituals.  I just thought this was a intresting concept.  You can also see how satan meets up with mans flesh and or desires.

I found a small definition of loa 

The Loas, or Lwas, the "Mysteries," the lesser divinities which are central to worship. The Loas are not gods, per se, but the most powerful ancestral spirits- great men and women, Kings, and divine messengers.

Well we know when satan was cast out of Heaven many, many, legions of demons were passed down with him. To make a connection between the loa and this voodoo loa, very similar or perhaps it is the one in the same.  Everyone has free-will to do what they want to do, however, along with free-will comes responsiblity. I am very disappointed in Oprah she knows better. Now, I have seen some tv programs where people have been brainwashed by the "secert'.

Just like any form of demonic activity some people go for the hear and now and then all of sudden blame God for their "free-will"/ loa. No, a person has made the choice and they now must live with it or repent of their sins. 

In my own life I have used the vision board. I keep God right on the board. However, I might of spent 2 days on it and left it alone. I am more God-focused now more than ever! 


loa/ now reminds me of the oujii board as well. It is common sense. do not invite the devil into your own home with his own key!


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## jade998 (Aug 11, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> About this vision board thingie....
> 
> I had a "vision board" LONG BEFORE I ever heard of loa/the secret.
> 
> ...


 
Hey Foxy Scholar,

Your intentions has always been God driven, If I am honest with myself, I got so tired that I stopped praying and just stared at this board every minute I could, and almost thought I could will in into being. I almost thought, here is another way to get what I really want.

I decided to have a journal instead, in which I write into my desires, my vision i.e. I would love to write a book someday, I would also like to be editor of a lifestyle magazine for black women, but it will be God focused, I want to be a councelor, I would love to get married (soon) and start a family , I would like to be debt free.... I will then find corresponding sciptures that will help me with this and then PRAY on this ... This way I will re-build my relationship back up with God. I realise I had stopped speaking to him and instead thought, well he knows my heart so he should make it happen.

Thanks so much ladies for speaking the truth regardless, I was on my knees last night and I just cried, I told God, I don't know what else to do, cause nothing was happening for me, It felt good to let it out. I realise that he might not come on my time, but he has proven to me so many times that he is always on time.

Thanks again ladies, you have no idea how great it feels to put my faith back on him, cause unlike LOA or any vision board, he has NEVER let me down, and he always has the best thoughts towards me.

I LOVE YOU, PAPA....


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## Hair4Care (Aug 16, 2008)

Mizz Brown, I agree with you completely it is not suppose to be the law of attraction but simple the word of God which is God's perfect and infalable law to men.

I was actually very shock to see how far The Oprah Show had gone into believing these new age messages.


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## kbragg (Aug 29, 2008)

I read a recent take on "The Law Of Attraction" that I agree with. The author stated that the LOA is not some mystical, magical, genie in a bottle typeof thing. By focusing your thoughts, you simple become more AWARE of the opportunities surrounding you. When you focus on a red car, you suddenly start seeing red cars everywhere. Did you magically pull those red cars into your reality? LOL NO! The cars were always there, you are just now aware of them. The same is the Law Of Attraction. You're not "manifesting" the things you desire perse; the answers, the things, the opportunities are always there. You are just more open and consciously AWARE of them.

There are differing views on LOA as wide a variety as those in religion. There's the scientific group, the metaphysical new age group, the Christian group etc. To me the above just makes sense. Nothing woo woo about it.


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## MizzBrown (Aug 29, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> I want to thank you ladies for breaking it down and explaining the tricks of the devil through his use of LOA.
> 
> The devil is a counterfeiter and wants to take the place of God. He also has a church and has many worshippers. He is the prince of the air and he dwells in the second heaven (the universe) where LOA'ers seek their help and the desires of their hearts. I think we tend to forget the subtlety of Lucifer and how hard he is trying to displace the Lord from His throne. Getting a Christian to fall for LOA is a big coup for him, something for him to rub in God's face.
> 
> ...


 
Memory boards? Are you serious? I was wondering what folks were talking about when they mentioned that.

I put insightful quotes and scriptures on my PC desktop and post it notes, not a mercedes or a picture of a mansion.

That scripture will give me what i need to get the mercedes or house. Gotta learn to read that and decipher the bible and then it will come. 

Practice makes perfect.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 29, 2008)

Remember when Jesus was being tempted in the wilderness...what did satan come to Him with?  He came offering Him "stuff" if He would just bow down and worship him.

That's what LOA does....it offers "stuff"...it's a tactic of the enemy and people are falling for it all over the world.  What concerns me is that there are believers who are listening to this stuff.  *sigh*


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## kbragg (Aug 29, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Remember when Jesus was being tempted in the wilderness...what did satan come to Him with? He came offering Him "stuff" if He would just bow down and worship him.
> 
> That's what LOA does....it offers "stuff"...it's a tactic of the enemy and people are falling for it all over the world. What concerns me is that there are believers who are listening to this stuff. *sigh*


 
The LOA is simply a secular term for a biblical principle i.e. reaping and sowing, your thought life, gratitude, etc. The problem is the secular form promotes borderline idolatry and taking God out of the equation.

There are "laws" an principles that apply to all, believers and non believers alike that work whether you're saved or not. The difference is who you look to. One will stand and one will burn.

A Christian can "have Jesus" but be broke, alone, depressed, and basically living life waiting for heaven, just like a non believer can "live it up." It's not that God favors one or the other. He causes it to rain on both the Godly and the ungodly alike. It's about wisdom and what you choose to do with the rain that counts.

You can't ask God to bless your finances and still maintain the same level of thinking that got you into debt in the first place, you know?

Proverbs and Ecclesiaties (forgive spelling lol) and two great books of the Bible that address these principles. No woo woo about it, just common sense. The world has simply repacked it, through some glitter on it, and made it about humanism.

I guess it's like the man drowning:

Someone comes by on a speed boat and offers his hand but the man with his great faith says "Oh no that's ok, God is going to save me." A cruise ship passes and throws him a life preserver, but the man with his great faith, once again says "no thanks, God is going to save me." Finally a helicopter hovers overhead and drops a ladder and the man once again says "No thanks, God is going to save me." The guy drowns. When he gets to heaven hes asks God "Lord, why didn't you save me?" and the Lord replies "I sent you a speedboat, a crusie ship and a helicopter, what more do you want!?"

So believers instead of getting caught up in the woo woo, the meditation, the mysticism, why not do like Solomon and pray for wisdom?

The bible says God knows the desires of your heart, that he knows what you have need of before you even ask, and that everything we want/need is already available to us. So instead of asking for the same thing over and over, ask once not for the thing, but rather for the wisdom and discernment to find the thing and then live each day with excitement and expectancy that you will be open to the opportunities available to you. if a wicked evil man like Donald Trump or Hughe Heffner can use wisdom to become wealthy and thus pour it into more wickness, how much moreso can we as children of God and thus pour it into the kindom. In India right now there are believers being killed and imprisioned for sharing the gospel. Instead of desiring a new Mercedes, how about desiring to financially support 1,000 native missionaries who are sharing the gospel to the unreached peoples of the world?

My prayer is Lord give me the wisdom and the discernment to be open and aware of the resources available to me. Help me to know what skills and abilities I need in order to accomplish my dream. And most importantly break my heart for the lost so that when I do achieve my dream, I will pour into the things that truly matter to you. Give me the desire to be a channel of blessing and know that these resources are not just for me to get for me, but so that I can be a blessing for someone else.

If you seek the kingdom first, all the other stuff will come, but it does require an effort on your part. We are CO laborers with Christ. The Holy Spirit comes along side, not does everything for us.

I meant to write a paragraph and look, I worte a book


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 29, 2008)

kbragg said:


> The LOA is simply a secular term for a biblical principle i.e. reaping and sowing, your thought life, gratitude, etc. The problem is the secular form promotes borderline idolatry and taking God out of the equation.
> 
> There are "laws" an principles that apply to all, believers and non believers alike that work whether you're saved or not. The difference is who you look to. One will stand and one will burn.
> 
> ...


 
I totally know what LOA is about, sis.  I'm still not going to put it together with the principles of the Word of God, no matter how much I may feel its right.  I'm not saying YOU have to, I'm just talking about ME.

Doesn't fit.


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## kbragg (Aug 29, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I totally know what LOA is about, sis. I'm still not going to put it together with the principles of the Word of God, no matter how much I may feel its right. I'm not saying YOU have to, I'm just talking about ME.
> 
> Doesn't fit.


 
So are you saying that the principles of reaping and sowing, your thought life, gratitude, etc are irrelevant or contrary to the Word? Because last I checked they are in the Word.

I'm not "putting together" anything with the Word. It IS in the Word. The world has just relabled it an mixed it with the woo woo The principles effect everyone whether you choose to believe them or use them or not

The mind is a very powerful tool, and that's where the woo woo stuff can get dangerous. Man goes first in the mind then in the body (over 90% of sex offenders are addicted to porn....not a coinsidence). 

Anywho, the "Law Of Attraction" is as much of a label as "Christianity" is both of which have 50-11 meanings In the end though it's really semantics and all about conscious awareness. I mean really

A man wants a better relationship with his wife so instead of focusing on her flaws, he focuses on the things that he loves about her and as a result finds his wife more attractive and beings to have anawesome relationship with her.

Did he mystically "attract" something? Did the big genie in the sky change his wife? No. He simply changed his thinking about his wife which opened him up to opportunities to treat her like the wife he wants and as a result she started to react better to him. No woo woo. No need to chant to crystals and burn sage

Anywho, it's so simple and both sides really miss out. One side gets all into the mysticism junk and completely loses out on an awesome relationship with God and possibly their soul. The other side stays broke, busted, and defeated waiting to die because they think that just because the world says it it can't be true (and don't realize that everything the world has is basically plagiarized from God anyway) and instead of seeking God for the answers, they discount the whole thing and go back to the lottery God mentality that if they just keep wishing God will just drop it in their lap OR that it's totally evil to even ask because it's a "lust of the flesh."

God can't do anything with either of those. A lust of the flesh will not go away simply if you pretend you don't have it or try to bury the desire. Many Christians avoid money cuz they think it will make them greedy. The problem is they are already greedy and afraid to admit it. Avoiding object doesn't change the heart. So admit it. If you want a Mercedes or a mansion, admit it to God. Tell Him you really really want it and you know what? Ask Him for the wisdom to get it.

Now I know that sounds "unreligious" but think about this. Look at Solomon. God gave him everything he wanted didn't he? And in the end what did he find? That it was meaningless. Now would he have discovered that it was if someone had simply told him? It wasn't until he experienced for himself that he realized this.

It's like CS Lewis says in Mere Christianity, "You don't know how bad you are until you try your best to be good and then realize that you can't. THAT'S when God can really work on you."

What I desire most in my relationship with God is to discard the religious traditions and just be 100% open with Him about everything, even if I think He won't like it and won't approve. Anywho I'm off on a tangent and stuff


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## Lenee925 (Aug 29, 2008)

LOA is secular humanist garbage pure and simple. If I think real hard about being a millionaire the universe has to give it to me because of the LOA. This is simply taking faith in God and perverting it, nothing new under the sun.


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## jturner7156 (Aug 29, 2008)

Lenee925 said:


> LOA is secular humanist garbage pure and simple. If I think real hard about being a millionaire the universe has to give it to me because of the LOA. This is simply taking faith in God and perverting it, nothing new under the sun.


 
I like this post...short and straight to the POINT!!!!


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## la mosca (Aug 29, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> *LOA is a belief system, a religion and they do not understand that they're practicing witchcraft.* They've made the universe their source(his kingdom), supplier of their needs and desires of their hearts and are serving/worshipping, albeit unknowingly, satan the destroyer and father of lies.


 
I agree.  And note that the definition of "occult" includes "any system claiming use or knowledge of *secret *or supernatural *powers or agencies*."  Hence the title of the film: "The Secret."


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 29, 2008)

kbragg said:


> So are you saying that the principles of reaping and sowing, your thought life, gratitude, etc are irrelevant or contrary to the Word? Because last I checked they are in the Word.
> 
> I'm not "putting together" anything with the Word. It IS in the Word. The world has just relabled it an mixed it with the woo woo The principles effect everyone whether you choose to believe them or use them or not
> 
> ...


 
Whatever you say, sis.

Blessings to you....always.


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## Ramya (Aug 29, 2008)

> Anywho, it's so simple and both sides really miss out. One side gets all into the mysticism junk and completely loses out on an awesome relationship with God and possibly their soul. The other side stays broke, busted, and defeated waiting to die because they think that just because the world says it it can't be true (and don't realize that everything the world has is basically plagiarized from God anyway) and instead of seeking God for the answers, they discount the whole thing and go back to the lottery God mentality that if they just keep wishing God will just drop it in their lap OR that it's totally evil to even ask because it's a "lust of the flesh."



I have to disagree. A lot of Christians just don't understand the principle of sowing and reaping but a simple BIBLE STUDY on the topic can open their eyes to all that God has for us and how to get it HIS way, not OUR way. They do not NEED the secret or any other outside sources. All they need is GOD's instruction manual. God already gave instruction to us for EVERYTHING. He already knows what we need as you posted earlier correct? Then why not go directly to the source and ask HIM? The resources are there for us already. When opportunities arise all we have to do is ask HIM if that's an opportunity that we should take. It's really very simple.


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## kbragg (Aug 29, 2008)

amerikan said:


> I have to disagree. A lot of Christians just don't understand the principle of sowing and reaping but a simple BIBLE STUDY on the topic can open their eyes to all that God has for us and how to get it HIS way, not OUR way. They do not NEED the secret or any other outside sources. All they need is GOD's instruction manual. God already gave instruction to us for EVERYTHING. He already knows what we need as you posted earlier correct? Then why not go directly to the source and ask HIM? The resources are there for us already. When opportunities arise all we have to do is ask HIM if that's an opportunity that we should take. It's really very simple.


 
I never said we needed the Secret or the Law Of Attraction AT ALL. I was simply saying that all the LOA is is a perverted version of what the Bible already says packed in pretty humanistic packaging.

As far as not needing outside sources, I do have to disagree. I do believe we do need outside counsel, but not humanistic ones. For example, if a couple is having marriage problems, they may pray and go to the Word for help but sometimes the help will come from a Christian couple who's been married for 50+ years. Or a woman who's been raped or molested knows the Bible says to forgive but she doesn't know how. Sometimes a Christian author who's been there may be able to give her the counsel she needs. We most definately need each other.

But anyway, all I was saying basically is what the world calls "The Law Of Attraction" is actually a perverted version of a Biblical truth.


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## discobiscuits (Aug 30, 2008)

LOA is not practicing witchcraft. My Episcopal Pastor taught on this years ago. He did not specifically speak of LOA by name and of course TS was not out yet, but he did make it clear that anyone can use God's principles and they will work. The Secret specifically and any type of LOA is using God's principles from the bible. I may be willing to stipulate that The Secret may be a perversion of those principles, but the *concept* of LOA is a basic taught in the bible. I came across a Christian LOA site years ago way before the secret and I've been intensely studying and measuring the secret and LOA against God's word all because of my EP's teaching on it. He was right. These are Godly principles that will work for anyone. They are natural and that which is natural comes first so they work for anyone anytime. Affirmations is a fancy name for calling things that be not as though they were and so on.


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## Ms.Honey (Aug 30, 2008)

Pasyor Cherry was not talking about LOA or anything similar. LOA is not a biblical principle nor is it based on spiritual principles. The principle of sow and reap actually requires you to DO something, it requires action. LOA only reqires for you to "wish upon the stars", to gain your desires from the universe. 

Another difference between the biblical principles and LOA is that the bible requires righteousness to receive spiritual blessings. Obedience bring the reward. LOA requires positive thinking towards the thing you wish to receive. You can be hateful, racists/bigoted, an adultress or just a plain old hoe and "sucessfully" practice LOA. No lifestyle change towards righteousness is required.

Sow and reap is not a principle used to gain material things to consume upon our own lusts but so that we will have to give to others who are in need. LOA  is for the worshipper to receive the desires of their hearts for their OWN wants and needs.

LOA is more in line with the charismatic movements teaching of naming and claiming, believing and receiving which is also unscriptual. These beliefs do not work everytime and is dependent on the worshipper to come out of their pockets to gain what they want. The principle of sow and reap works EVERYTIME and meets our needs far beyond what we've sown(good or evil) and  whatever we could ever hope or imagine.

Now the thing that IS similar in biblical principles is that the source of our gain and success is our father. Our source is God our Father in heaven. The source (unknowingly) to the LOA'er is their father the devil (the universe).

Why not simply pray and ask God the Father if *HE* approves of LOA and whether or not it's scriptural instead of going by our own *BELIEF* of whether He approves of it or not.


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## discobiscuits (Aug 30, 2008)

Actually, Pastor was discussing exactly that and LOA requires action like S&R does. However, I have always deferred to you on this forum publicly and in PMs. I have chosen to assume a position of learning from you.  I do not believe that God approves (ETA) as much as it is something He placed in the earth and (end edit) I'm going off of what Pastor taught and what I've read in the word. I do not now nor ever have practiced LOA, I've only studied it. I do not advocate it I only point out the fact that it is directly from God's word and was taught by our former pastor from the pulpit. I'd love to try to find my notes but I've got what about 20 year's worth. I don't even remember the message title. Anyway, I disagree with you on one or two points but I defer to you since I know that you and I come from the same ideology and teachings and it may be that I am not presenting my points clearly enough, not that you and I are on different sides of the topic at hand.


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## discobiscuits (Aug 30, 2008)

I wanted to add (w/o an edit) that Pastor used to teach 'name it and claim it' years ago. One memory in particular was when he had Rev. Price teach a message I think it was when he was installed as EP. Pastor has moved away from the name and claim.  However, LOA as well as name and claim is exactly the part of the bilble that people use (or perhaps misuse) "call things that be not....." All I've ever attempted to say about LOA is that it is based on principles or "laws" that God instituted and Jesus taught.  

LOA: Ask, Believe, Receive
Bible: *Ask* God through prayer according to His word, not your lusts, *believe* Him and you will *receive*. Yes, this is a principle that is perverted and or used incorrectly, but it works and God made it. Our pastor even taught us that even when perverted, God's principles still work because they are natural, which comes first. Honestly, if I find the notes, I'll tell you the teaching where he said this and the scriptures he used.

Still. I defer to you, I've found in some instances you have wisdom in some areas and I've looked to you for help in those areas. I also recognize the wisdom that I have in other areas. I'm actually wondering if you will teach me something that will show me if I misunderstood. Right now I still stand on what our Pastor taught as I concur that the scriptures support it and so far, God has not informed me that what Pastor taught and what I've understood is incorrect.


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## Ms.Honey (Aug 30, 2008)

What action does LOA require other than posting images on boards, focusing and believing your gonna get it and then going out and paying for the item you wanted. I do that when the sales papers come. 

I haven't been there for as long as you have but I do know the principle of sow and reap and LOA does not coincide with it. Sow and reap works for everyone(saved or sinner) everytime LOA does not. 
Sow and reap: Plant an apple seed (sow) gain an apple tree with many apples with  even MORE seeds (reap). LOA: See a car you desire (name it) Put a pic of it on a memory board(claim it) Focus on it with a positive attitude that you will mainfest what you desire(believe it) go to the dealership and buy it (receive it). 

A loved one of mine who practices LOA and feng shui among other beliefs, in which she is an expert, told me that if I really wanted to, under LOA, I could marry one of my celebrity crushes. Now I don't care how many pics I post or how positive my thinking, it ain't gonna happen 
Sow and reap works everytime for everyone. LOA can not possibly work everytime for everyone. That's how you know it's not a biblical principle or biblically based. God's Word can not fail. EVER!

I have no idea of what teaching you're referring to. Do you know the specifics of it or around what time he taught it?


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## Ms.Honey (Aug 30, 2008)

h.e.a.d.s.t.r.o.n.g. said:


> I wanted to add (w/o an edit) that Pastor used to teach 'name it and claim it' years ago. One memory in particular was when he had Rev. Price teach a message I think it was when he was installed as EP. Pastor has moved away from the name and claim. However, LOA as well as name and claim is exactly the part of the bilble that people use (or perhaps misuse) "call things that be not....." All I've ever attempted to say about LOA is that it is based on principles or "laws" that God instituted and Jesus taught.
> 
> LOA: Ask, Believe, Receive
> Bible: *Ask* God through prayer according to His word, not your lusts, *believe* Him and you will *receive*. Yes, this is a principle that is perverted and or used incorrectly, but it works and God made it. Our pastor even taught us that even when perverted, God's principles still work because they are natural, which comes first. Honestly, if I find the notes, I'll tell you the teaching where he said this and the scriptures he used.
> ...


 
Now I do know that he taught that if you wanted to be righteous or your health restored in order to complete an assignment He has given you, to ask God according to scripture and believe that He will honor HIS Word. Praying for a pair of Manolo's doesn't fit into that catergory.

Have you actually prayed about it and asked if what you believe is correct or are you going on the fact that He hasn't told you that you are incorrect?


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## discobiscuits (Aug 30, 2008)

Right now I'm drawing a blank on Pastor's teaching. I want to say it was post AMEZ and post Rev. Price. I'm not sure. I think it was like 98-01 but again, don't hold me to that. I'm fairly confident I've got notes on it but I have tons of notebooks to go through. (I was too cheap to buy tapes so I took copious notes ergo, lots of notebooks.)

Anyway, I'm not a LOA practitioner or advocate, I just note the similarities and it made me recall that pastor taught on a subject or topic that to me seems similar or can possibly support LOA. 

Here is the Christian LOA site. Again, since I don't practice, I never got into this woman either. http://www.thoughtsalive.com/
http://www.jackrabbitfactor.com/

Another thing I've noticed, her site has changed some since I first saw it which was pre-The Secret. I'm not advocating the site, just showing you another person who asserts that LOA is bible based. *I am in no way using this site to support my assertions just sharing*


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## discobiscuits (Aug 30, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> Now I do know that he taught that if you wanted to be righteous or your health restored in order to complete an assignment He has given you, to ask God according to scripture and believe that He will honor HIS Word. *Praying for a pair of Manolo's* doesn't fit into that catergory.  **THAT's FUNNY!**
> 
> Have you actually prayed about it and asked if what you believe is correct or are you going on the fact that He hasn't told you that you are incorrect?


Yes to both of your questions. 

But on this topic of LOA I am 100% open to correction and willing to change in an instant. Again, I say that I may not be doing a good job of putting in writing what my brain is processing. So I keep trying to explain what I mean. I also may be misunderstanding or misconstruing some things. Again, I can accept that, but right now, I don't see it. Were you there for the initial principle teachings? If so, I think that those teachings may be where I'm getting some of this from (the principle of Agreement maybe? I'm pretty sure it was not the principle of Sow and Reap. I'm still not sure). If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, cool; I can accept that and correctify myself (made up word for the grammar/spelling police LOL).


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## *KP* (Aug 30, 2008)

kbragg said:


> I never said we needed the Secret or the Law Of Attraction AT ALL. I was simply saying that all the LOA is is a perverted version of what the Bible already says packed in pretty humanistic packaging.
> 
> As far as not needing outside sources, I do have to disagree. I do believe we do need outside counsel, but not humanistic ones. For example, if a couple is having marriage problems, they may pray and go to the Word for help but sometimes the help will come from a Christian couple who's been married for 50+ years. Or a woman who's been raped or molested knows the Bible says to forgive but she doesn't know how. Sometimes a Christian author who's been there may be able to give her the counsel she needs. We most definately need each other.
> 
> But anyway, all I was saying basically is what the world calls "The Law Of Attraction" is actually a perverted version of a Biblical truth.



I believe this also.  Sometimes you may pray and read the word and God will lead you to a certain person or resource _you _may need at that time.

How that is worded in the secret is that "you attract it from the universe"

I agree it is the same bible principles repackaged for a wider audience.  I do believe that what you want though, should be God-centred.  Following LOA/the secret does NOT mean stop praying or reading God's word if you are a Christian.

IMO, it is a principle just like gravity.  One thing that stood out to me in the DVD was when one guy said, it's like electricity, you can use it to cook a man a meal OR to cook the man.  Are we going start calling electricity the devil now because it can be used for evil?  No, like anything else, it depends on the intent you have behind it.  If all your wants are materialistic, then that is not of God but what if they are affirmations of your faith as one poster put it?  They may be things you know God is working on for you but you have to also do your bit (like the drowning man in Kbragg's post).

What I do find interesting though is I have a friend who does not believe in God or the "new age mumbo jumbo universe bs" as he puts it but he does believe the principles of the secret but gives scientific-psychological reasons behind it.  And that just proves to me it is _just_ a principle, you can be God-centred or not with or without "the secret".

If you read any self-help or success book, again it is the same principles just worded differently.


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## MizzBrown (Aug 30, 2008)

Why didn't they just repackage the Bible then??  I still don't get it. Replace the word "universe" with God and you got yourself a Bible or study Bible.


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## tmichelle (Aug 30, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> Pasyor Cherry was not talking about LOA or anything similar. LOA is not a biblical principle nor is it based on spiritual principles. The principle of sow and reap actually requires you to DO something, it requires action. LOA only reqires for you to "wish upon the stars", to gain your desires from the universe.
> 
> Another difference between the biblical principles and LOA is that the bible requires righteousness to receive spiritual blessings. *Obedience bring the reward*. LOA requires positive thinking towards the thing you wish to receive. You can be hateful, racists/bigoted, an adultress or just a plain old hoe and "sucessfully" practice LOA. No lifestyle change towards righteousness is required.
> 
> ...


 
I think the bold is very well stated and in-line with Biblical teachings.  LOA is definitely a perverting of the truth.  It's funny b/c many on this thread have said, "it's a Biblical principle, just repackaged".  Why would you want that?  Of what benefit would it be to study/practice something that has been altered?  



Ms.Honey said:


> What action does LOA require other than posting images on boards, focusing and believing your gonna get it and then going out and paying for the item you wanted. I do that when the sales papers come.
> 
> I haven't been there for as long as you have but I do know the principle of sow and reap and LOA does not coincide with it. Sow and reap works for everyone(saved or sinner) everytime LOA does not.
> Sow and reap: Plant an apple seed (sow) gain an apple tree with many apples with even MORE seeds (reap). LOA: See a car you desire (name it) Put a pic of it on a memory board(claim it) Focus on it with a positive attitude that you will mainfest what you desire(believe it) go to the dealership and buy it (receive it).
> ...


 
So now you have people who believe in this principle telling you that other's freewill will bow to yours?!  I suppose that is what LOA can turn into eventually, you've already placed yourself and your desires at the center of the universe where the universe/God/Santa is forced to give you whatever you dream of, why not have it bend other people to your will as well?




MizzBrown said:


> Why didn't they just repackage the Bible then?? I still don't get it. Replace the word "universe" with God and you got yourself a Bible or study Bible.


 
Can I just say, "Amen"?  Why not just study the Bible and why dabble into these tihng?  2 Tim. 4:3, 4 says, _"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths."_ Sounds prophetic to me.


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## vlucious (Aug 30, 2008)

so many good points have been made, i just hope that many of the ladies on this board realize the constant contradictions and "sketchy" - ness of it all. i pray that for the "christians", god comes in and guards their minds to discern between this and his true word.


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## Ms.Honey (Aug 30, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> I think the bold is very well stated and in-line with Biblical teachings. LOA is definitely a perverting of the truth. It's funny b/c many on this thread have said, "it's a Biblical principle, just repackaged". Why would you want that? Of what benefit would it be to study/practice something that has been altered?


 
I think people aren't realizing what their doing by equating the universe with God. It's blasphemous and there is a consequence that comes along with that. Also, trying to gain the power of God using a different source for that power, the universe is witchcraft. LOA is repackaged but it has been repackaged by the devil not God. It's the same trick he pulled on Eve in the Garden. Try it and you will be just like God. He's not gonna do anything You can do it without Him




tmichelle said:


> So now you have people who believe in this principle telling you that other's freewill will bow to yours?! I suppose that is what LOA can turn into eventually, you've already placed yourself and your desires at the center of the universe where the universe/God/Santa is forced to give you whatever you dream of, why not have it bend other people to your will as well?


 
Yes,basically. She said I could have him if I really wanted him. Somehow my focusing (conjuring him up, witchcraft) would cause us to meet, he would be waiting for me or feel the connection because of my memory board, and I would end up as his wife or whatever I "willed to happen"

I thank God that's not true because I would have been married and divorced passed from man to man just cuz they put me on their boards Retailers better look out too cuz their stock is about to start mysteriously disappear from their shelves





tmichelle said:


> Can I just say, "Amen"? Why not just study the Bible and why dabble into these tihng? 2 Tim. 3,4 says, _"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths."_ Sounds prophetic to me.


 
"They also come into houses and take silly women captive" also fits 2Tim 3:4-9 
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 
9 *But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.* 




vlucious said:


> so many good points have been made, i just hope that many of the ladies on this board realize the constant contradictions and "sketchy" - ness of it all. i pray that for the "christians", god comes in and guards their minds to discern between this and his true word.


 
Yep. He has made it so that if we come to Him in prayer (not a self- serving prayer) asking to know HIS will, He will reveal the truth to us and protect us from being tricked, deceived, scammed. It's not gonna happen though, well not until all hell breaks through in their lives (which won't take long now) and they have been humbled themselves before God and not the universe which He has created.

*ETA: 
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Jannes and Jambres were the magicians (witchcraft) who opposed God's power, the miracles performed by Moses, with their own versions (magic, LOA, witchcraft)*


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## Ramya (Aug 30, 2008)

Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't get why a Christian would want to "study" and "practice" something that perverts and twists God's word.  Is God not enough anymore?


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## MizzBrown (Aug 30, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't get why a Christian would want to "study" and "practice" something that perverts and twists God's word.  Is God not enough anymore?


 
Apparently not.

That's why we have so many self-help books, alternate resources, lot's of repackaging.

Repackaging is great if it allows someone to bring them closer to the words of God so long as 'GOD' is still written in the book and is the primary focus...If it's not then what is it?

Is 'The Secret' even in the Christian section of the bookstore? 

ETA: It's not! It's categorized in the "self improvement" section...Case closed.


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## vlucious (Aug 30, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't get why a Christian would want to "study" and "practice" something that perverts and twists God's word.  Is God not enough anymore?



their whole process is mixed up, when jesus died on the cross the curtain of the temple was torn in two, symbolizing that we no longer need a middle man to go to god, we dont need to be a priest to talk one on one with God. and i suppose, to them this is i guess, a form of a "middle man" that was destroyed when jesus died. this is a tool they use to get closer to god, but in reality all they need is a bible, time to pray and the desire in their hearts to serve god, and all these things they desire will come, God said to solomon when he asked for a discerning heart and not death of enemies, wealth, etc...: *"Moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for—both riches and honor—so that in your lifetime you will have no equal among kings." * we can apply that to our everyday life. if we just ask god (not the universe or some dry erase board) for things that he sees as pure and righteous, then these things will come.


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## vlucious (Aug 30, 2008)

eta, to amerika, maybe its not that god isnt enough, maybe its them, they think that they arent enough, so they need to seek other avenues in order to get what they want. (???)


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## kbragg (Aug 31, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't get why a Christian would want to "study" and "practice" something that perverts and twists God's word.  Is God not enough anymore?


 
Don't know if this is directed toward me, but I don'tr "study" or "practice" anything perverted

http://www.squidoo.com/thesecretmoviechristianresponse

I am not defending the Secret nor the LOA just stating that all it is is a bootleg of the real thing, don't know how that makes me a "christian" and not just a Christian without the condecending quotes

Also the LOA varies from teacher to teacher. You got the woo woo group that thinki it's all about thoughts but there are other Spiritual Laws. The "Law Of Attraction" is just one. Leslie Householder (www.thoughtsalive.com) discusses that in her Hidden Treasures book. Many say "ask Belive & Receive" but lets not forget "ask, Seek & Knock. James Ray one of the dudes in the movie for example is not into the mysticism that Rhonda Burne is and neither is Bob Proctor.

Anywho, just was adding my perspective sorry if ya'll think I'm now a "christian."


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## Ramya (Aug 31, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Don't know if this is directed toward me, but I don'tr "study" or "practice" anything perverted
> 
> http://www.squidoo.com/thesecretmoviechristianresponse
> 
> ...


 
I was not referring to you or any of your posts. It just is beyond my understanding as to why a Christian would study these things and that's all that was meant by my post. I don't know anything about you or your walk and I certainly was not trying to imply that you or anyone else was less of a Christian .


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## kbragg (Aug 31, 2008)

amerikan said:


> I was not referring to you or any of your posts. It just is beyond my understanding as to why a Christian would study these things and that's all that was meant by my post. I don't know anything about you or your walk and I certainly was not trying to imply that you or anyone else was less of a Christian .


 
Cool beans Oh and my  wasn't directed toward you, that's just my general feeling about the phrase proceeding  Plus I think he's really cool


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## Crystalicequeen123 (Aug 28, 2009)

Wow...after reading most of this thread, I think I'm going to throw away that book "The Secret" that I have.   

I don't even know why I bought it!  The DVD was interesting....I'll admit.  But while watching it I got a weird vibe.    Some of it's teachings (although some of it good like positive thinking, etc) totally went against what I have learned in the bible, and what I know about God, etc.  It just didn't "feel" right.  Still...I bought the book.   

I've read the whole book, and while I won't condemn it...I will say that this book can be VERY DANGEROUS especially for us who are Christians. The book, the DVD, and the whole LOA or "The Secret" principle seems to advocate some type of Self-serving, Self-focusing SELFISH form of attaining material things in one's life.  It almost makes the individual into some sort of "god".      I didn't like that at all.  I can see how people can get wrapped into thinking that they are all-powerful and can "control" their destiny as they say.     I can see how this can be very dangerous thinking. 

I am still an advocate of "Positive Thinking", but my main focus will be on God and improving my relationship with HIM, so that he can bring me whatever it is that he sees beneficial for myself.  I know he will always bring GOOD things into my life.  

So yea....I think I'm going to throw away that book.


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## momi (Aug 29, 2009)

Crystalicequeen123 said:


> Wow...after reading most of this thread, I think I'm going to throw away that book "The Secret" that I have.
> 
> I don't even know why I bought it! The DVD was interesting....I'll admit. But while watching it I got a weird vibe.  Some of it's teachings (although some of it good like positive thinking, etc) totally went against what I have learned in the bible, and what I know about God, etc. It just didn't "feel" right. Still...I bought the book.
> 
> ...


 
Sounds like a great move to me ...


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## moonglowdiva (Aug 30, 2009)

*It is amazing how things can get lost in translation. As for the LOA thingamawho. I do believe that it is satanic. I don't dabble in telepathic perception, ouiga(sp) board, etc. I do believe that it was derived from such tactic. I trust God. Period. Let God's will be done. I am not going to quote scripture to prove a point because they've already been quoted. Be careful because when you use LOA etc you open up the something in the spiritual realm that could be veryh evil. Now if you want to do LOA have at it. I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on your souls. *


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## moonglowdiva (Aug 30, 2009)

*I have read most of these post and I am scared!!!!!! The devil is clever. I don't believe some of the stuff I am reading. My God, my God!!!!*


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## Aggie (Aug 31, 2009)

moonglowdiva said:


> *I have read most of these post and I am scared!!!!!! The devil is clever. I don't believe some of the stuff I am reading. My God, my God!!!!*


 
I feel you MGD, but there is absolutely no need to fear for greater is He (GOD, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) that is in you than he that is in the world. Praise be to God. 

Amazing, this thread got resurrected in one year.


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## CurlyGirl1996 (Aug 31, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> And THAT RIGHT THERE is the root of the enemy's seductive tactics....
> 
> Just like when the serpent approached Eve in the garden, he didn't tell Eve the (WHOLE) TRUTH about what would happen if she ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And how could the serpent/the devil tell the truth? HE CAN'T! he's the FATHER OF LIES!!!!
> 
> ...



Amen Sister Amen!


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## Sosa (Apr 24, 2011)

Bumping for those who need it! 

Will share my experience when I'm through reading this thread .


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## Crystalicequeen123 (May 12, 2011)

Sosa said:


> Bumping for those who need it!
> 
> *Will share my experience when I'm through reading this thread *.



Sosa, if you don't mind me asking, what has been your experience?


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## aribell (May 12, 2011)

Whoever wants deeper understanding, please Google search Watchman Nee's "The Latent Power of the Soul"  and also "The Dangers of Soulish Life".

In fact, here's a direct link to the first one.  It's not very long and is very helpful:
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/LatentPowerofSoul.pdf

It's table of contents include:
I. The Latent Power of the Soul
II. The Christian and Psychic Force
III. Spirit Force v. Psychic Force

Essentially, there are many things that we can accomplish in our own power.  In the book of Exodus Jannes and Jambres were able to do their own miracles outside of God.  Jesus told us that when the antichrist comes, he'll do great things as well--but the question is where the power is coming from.  Even if it's natural, that doesn't mean it's okay.  It took me a long time to get that because I would consider myself a very intuitive-type person open to these types of things.  But it all has to be laid down.


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## Crown (May 13, 2011)

LOA is a perversion!

The biblical principle is found in :

Mark 11 : 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you *ask for in prayer*, *believe *that you have *received* it, and it will be yours.25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, *forgive* them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.


This is VERY serious for your soul : DON’T go there!

Acts 7.42 *Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven*…



*Universe is NOT GOD (YHWH).*

Ex. 20.2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 20.3 *Thou shalt have no other gods before me.*

Deut. 4.19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the *sun*, and the *moon*, and the *stars*, *even all the host of heaven*, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. 4.20 *But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day*.


*Universe is a part of the creation of GOD. You can’t equal universe and GOD (Yahweh)!*

Deut. 17.2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 17.3 *And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded*…

Rom. 1.21 Because that, *when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 1.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools*, 1.23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 1.24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 1.25 *Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.*

Sop. 1.2 I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD. 1.3 *I will consume man and beast*; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked: and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD. 1.4 I will also stretch out mine hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the name of the Chemarims with the priests; 1.5 *And them that worship the host of heaven* upon the housetops; *and them that worship and that swear by the LORD, and that swear by Malcham; 1.6 And them that are turned back from the LORD; and those that have not sought the LORD, nor enquired for him*.

Deut. 6.12 Then beware lest thou forget the LORD, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 6.13 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name. 6.14 *Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you*; 6.15 (For the LORD thy *God is a jealous God among you*) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

Ja. 4 : 1 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2 You desire but do not have, so you kill. *You covet but you cannot get what you want*, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have *because you do not ask God*. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, *because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures*.


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## Shimmie (May 13, 2011)

Crown said:


> LAO is a perversion!
> 
> The biblical principle is found in :
> 
> ...


Crown your entire post is not only on point, but you are fearlessly taking a stand to honour God and His Authority.   Good for you!    Don't ever back down from taking a stand for God's righteousness.  Not ever!   

I've just about had it with Christians who are compromising the 'Faith' and God's Truth'.   In the heat of the battle, they wither up and deny their stand for God. 

The LOA means one thing to the world... 

*L* eaving 
*O* ut 
*A* ll Mighty God

As a Believer and one who has the highest honour and respect for God and His Word,  I know that there is only one LOA which is Jesus Christ, who is * L*-ord *O*f *A*-ll.  

The world's LOA is for those who wish to have it their way without concience and conviction should their desires go against God's Word.    

What the world has actually done is *stolen* God's principles and placing 'their' label upon it.  They've plagerized God's dynamics and principles.   And their God to whom they worship is called 'The Universe'.      

Oh! and don't anyone be fooled by those who say they use LOA and still honour God.   

Ummmmm.....  

God does not play 'second fiddle' to anything nor anyone.  We either trust Him wholely or not.   Mixing LOA with God is called 'spritual adultery'.     The Word of God speaks clearly about idols and false gods.   God is not having it.    It's either God or satan.   Make a choice.  There is no mix of the two.   

Why would one contaminate their holy and precious gift of being a child of God with the vomit of the world?   

Again and Again....There is no mix of the two. 

One in true relationship with God, does not need LOA.   It is a deterent to one's faith; it's weakens your faith and development to trust God.    

The evidence of one's lack of trust in God is going elsewhere to have one's needs or desires met.    One is saying, I don't have it together with God, so I'm here to do it the world's way.    This is just sad.     To lose your faith in vain for deceptive gain.


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## loulou7 (May 13, 2011)

*Danger Ahead:* When you try to become your own G-d, you are heading towards a downward spiral.


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## ixoyegodisgood (May 13, 2011)

I don't know if I am interested in debating this or not, but you all do know that these preachers who are all wrapped up in sexual sin, idolatry (not just with money but with them as people), etc are using the LOA on all who follow them?  If they weren't then how are Binny Hinn, Eddie Long Creflo Dollar...all of them still in business.  I think you have to be very selective on what you believe and what you follow.  I am a Christian.  That no one can take from me.  Jesus was the only one who spoke as he spoke.  Buddha, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, NONE of them can make that claim of bringing peace and being GOD.  Jesus told the disciples, "The power that is with me is also within you"....again why are we so limited? The biggest thing I use is the positive thinking and when I meditate, I meditate to GOD.  I don't believe in meditating to the Unversise because the Universe did not create itself, so that is not something I do.  If it doesn't feel right to you don't do it.

ETA:  the power of positive thinking was written by a preacher I believe. He stressed the use of quiet time (meditation) and thinking about what you want (visulization) AGAIN, I agree what someone said up thread -- it is all about marketing when it comes the use of the 'Universe", but those Christians, like myself who do use LOA techniques are NEVER losing sight of the true source GOD/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit.  I am done second guessing myself.  I trust that any thought that I have that is positive and moves me forward is from GOD.  A lot of the LOA teachers lives are a mess (ie Wayne Dwyer) but with all people take what is useful and KIM.


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## AnjelLuvs (May 13, 2011)

*Wow I really need to be fellow shipping in this forum...subscribes... 

So it is bad to think of LOA and the Secret... ummm... I thought that was positive... ok let me go back over thread, it my address my thoughts... 
*


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## Crown (May 13, 2011)

Who are saying don't use positive thinking?

Instead of giving recognition to the perversion (LOA), stay with the source (ABBA FATHER)
 
The Bible commands us to be positive and have faith, not because of the universe or because I am powerful and I can have all that I want, but because of our Almighty Father.

Ph. 4: 4 *Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice*.  

Ph. 4: 11 I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12  I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I  have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation,  whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 *I can do all this through him who gives me strength*.

19 *And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus*. 
  20 *To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen. *

Mat. 6 : 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and *your heavenly Father knows that you need them*.33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.


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## Shimmie (May 13, 2011)

derring-do said:


> I don't know if I am interested in debating this or not, but you all do know that these preachers who are all wrapped up in sexual sin, idolatry (not just with money but with them as people), etc are using the LOA on all who follow them?  If they weren't then how are Binny Hinn, Eddie Long Creflo Dollar...all of them still in business.  I think you have to be very selective on what you believe and what you follow.  I am a Christian.  That no one can take from me.  Jesus was the only one who spoke as he spoke.  Buddha, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, NONE of them can make that claim of bringing peace and being GOD.  Jesus told the disciples, "The power that is with me is also within you"....again why are we so limited? The biggest thing I use is the positive thinking and when I meditate, I meditate to GOD.  I don't believe in meditating to the Unversise because the Universe did not create itself, so that is not something I do.  If it doesn't feel right to you don't do it.
> 
> ETA:  the power of positive thinking was written by a preacher I believe. He stressed the use of quiet time (meditation) and thinking about what you want (visulization) AGAIN, I agree what someone said up thread -- it is all about marketing when it comes the use of the 'Universe", but those Christians, like myself who do use LOA techniques are NEVER losing sight of the true source GOD/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit.  I am done second guessing myself.  I trust that any thought that I have that is positive and moves me forward is from GOD.  A lot of the LOA teachers lives are a mess (ie Wayne Dwyer) but with all people take what is useful and KIM.




satan said to Jesus.... _'I will give you all of the kingdom if you would but bow down unto me..."_

Jesus replied... "Get thee behind me satan'...  

Jesus didn't practice LOA nor did He need to or even desire to.   He knew who He was and for all that He wanted and needed ....... HE gave glory unto God the Father and Prayed.   

In like manner, this is the power that Jesus speaks of that 'we' who depend upon God, have within us.   

As Believers in God's Word, we do not resort to the world's substandards.    Why?   Jesus surely did not.   He did not have to think positive.   He was positive and those whose minds are stayed upon Jesus and His Word is the only positive truth that one needs.   

Now, why do you think these named persons among others have messed up?   Easy answer, God wasn't in  what they are/were teaching.   Plain and simple.  

Jesus took nothing from the world, yet the world has taken and perverted that which is of Him.  Including the named preachers and false teachers (Wayne Dryer -- he has several 'twists' in his teachings).

Therefore....Be not deceived.   And not get it twisted by using what the world calls LOA to justify it's use by a Christian.    God made it plain, _let this not (evil practices) be named among you.  _

Are a Christian, live as one.   Jesus did not resort to LOA.   He did not compromised His relationship with God the Father.    Otherwise His entire purpose upon earth would have been rendered null and void.    The same principle an fact remains with those of us who say we are Chrisitans.  We cannot mix the two... the worlds unbelief in God and that of a struggling Christian who is playing both sides.  

God says, 'If you abide in me and my Word abides in you, than you can ask what you will and it shall be given..." 

Beyond positive thinking, for the mind can be quite deceptive and thoughts are influenced quite negatively without a sole dependence upon God and His Word.  

When one deals with LOA, they are clearly saying, God is not sufficient, He is not 'All' to me, I need something more.


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## Highly Favored8 (May 13, 2011)

derring-do said:


> *I don't know if I am interested in debating this or not, but you all do know that these preachers who are all wrapped up in sexual sin, idolatry (not just with money but with them as people), etc are using the LOA on all who follow them?  If they weren't then how are Binny Hinn, Eddie Long Creflo Dollar...all of them still in business.*  I think you have to be very selective on what you believe and what you follow.  I am a Christian.  That no one can take from me.  Jesus was the only one who spoke as he spoke.  Buddha, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, NONE of them can make that claim of bringing peace and being GOD.  Jesus told the disciples, "The power that is with me is also within you"....again why are we so limited? The biggest thing I use is the positive thinking and when I meditate, I meditate to GOD.  I don't believe in meditating to the Unversise because the Universe did not create itself, so that is not something I do.  If it doesn't feel right to you don't do it.
> 
> ETA:  the power of positive thinking was written by a preacher I believe. He stressed the use of quiet time (meditation) and thinking about what you want (visulization) AGAIN, I agree what someone said up thread -- it is all about marketing when it comes the use of the 'Universe", but those Christians, like myself who do use LOA techniques are NEVER losing sight of the true source GOD/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit.  I am done second guessing myself.  I trust that any thought that I have that is positive and moves me forward is from GOD.  A lot of the LOA teachers lives are a mess (ie Wayne Dwyer) but with all people take what is useful and KIM.




ITA with the bolded..


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## Highly Favored8 (May 13, 2011)

Crown said:


> Who are saying don't use positive thinking?
> 
> Instead of giving recognition to the perversion (LOA), *stay with the source (ABBA FATHER)*
> 
> ...




and what about the ones who do keep Abba Father in that aspect.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 13, 2011)

Do not be fooled by the enemy, He deceived the woman in the garden by telling her she could be like God. He himself wanted to exalt himself to be like the Most High. It failed. It is a trick. Our hope and faith is in Christ not in my own flesh.

Proverb 3:5-7
*5* Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; *6* *In all your ways acknowledge Him*, *And He shall direct your paths*. *7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil. *

Matthew 15:24 *-* Then Jesus said to his disciples, "*If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.*​ 
Matthew 15:26 - What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?​ 
If you are looking for Peace, it is found in the Lord. 

*You will guard him and keep him in perfect and constant peace whose mind [both its inclination and its character] is stayed on You*, because he commits himself to You, leans on You, and hopes confidently in You. Isaiah 3​ 
Peace I leave with you; My [own] peace I now give and bequeath to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. John 14


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## Highly Favored8 (May 13, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=creflo+dollar+meditates+on+God's+Promises&aq=f

When you listen to all of his Sermons which I had and taken some notes he is speaking this from a LOA---- Stand point. Then again he is Creflo Dollar.


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## Highly Favored8 (May 13, 2011)

Oh yeah Dr. Cindy Trimm wrote a book called "Commanding your Morning" she was on the Paula White show talking about the Law of Attraction -LOA and not only that she actually broke it down. Dr. Cindy Trimm is a woman of God-

Norman Vincent Peale was a Minister- Goodness Pastor John Haggee
Did a good sermon about how he was very young in minstry and he and his wife were looking for home and how he prayed and had a "vision" "picture" posted up of the exact house that God blessed him with. 


Does it make it right or wrong-whether these men/ women of God use it or not who am I to judge.JMHO


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## ixoyegodisgood (May 13, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> satan said to Jesus.... _'I will give you all of the kingdom if you would but bow down unto me..."_
> 
> Jesus replied... "Get thee behind me satan'...
> 
> ...



GOD is sufficent when I turn down the noise  I can finally LISTEN. 

I look at this way, when I post about Christ among the LOA folks they  get up and arms; when I post about LOA among Christians they get up in  arms.  That tells me I must be doing something right.  Something is up  with this LOA and Christianity.  I am a Christian and believe Christ to  be exactly who He said He was, and I do believe that when the bible was  compiled some things were left out and it may concern being able to get  exactly what you want out of life as long as it doesnt hurt you or  anyone else or go against GODs word.  I no longer feel I should be this  punching bag for the world and it is amazing. I think a lot Christians  need to study it (LOA) -- good and the bad because I think this will be  used my some sort of anti christ figure (as was mentioned earlier in this thread).  Because, as evident by that  thread, many Christians are falling prey to the LOA (via media,  government, etc) and they don't even know it.  Heh, the same people who  are up in arms about LOA are the first people to be pro-gay, choice,  worshiping each other with these excessive e-high-fives etc. etc.  life  is all in how you see it, I guess.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 13, 2011)

PaperClip said:


> And THAT RIGHT THERE is the root of the enemy's seductive tactics....
> 
> 
> *LOA sounds attractive but it's not the whole truth, esp. for the Bible-believing Christian. It removes the Lordship of the Lord God Almighty and puts ALL THE OWNERSHIP of life on the person who walks in that vein. And because the Lord is a GENTLEMAN, a gentle, kind Savior, He is NOT going to push His way into anyone's life. He gave us free will so we will FREELY CHOOSE to submit to Him. Every single Christian should RUN in the opposite direction from anything that ignores or tries to replace the Lordship of the Lord God Almighty with something else, even if that something else is YOU.*
> ...


 
^^^ I agree!! It removes the Lordship of the Lord. God is not following us, we are to follow Him.


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## Crown (May 13, 2011)

Highly Favored8 said:


> and what about the ones who do keep Abba Father in that aspect.



Ex. 32 : 21 He said to Aaron, “*What did these people do to you, that you led them into such great sin?*”   22 “Do not be angry, my lord,” *Aaron answered. “You know how prone these people are to evil*. 23 They said to me, ‘Make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him.’ 24 So I told them, ‘Whoever has any gold jewelry, take it off.’ Then they gave me the gold, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!” 
 25 *Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies*. 26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “*Whoever is for the LORD, come to me*.” And all the Levites rallied to him. 

1Sam. 16 : 7 But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. *People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart*.”

Jos. 24 : 15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then *choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve*, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. *But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD*.”

Mat. 6 : 24 “*No one can serve two masters*. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. *You cannot serve both God and money*.
 
My answer : let the Holy Spirit be true.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 13, 2011)

derring-do said:


> GOD is sufficent when I turn down the noise I can finally LISTEN.
> 
> *I look at this way, when I post about Christ among the LOA folks they get up and arms; when I post about LOA among Christians they get up in arms. That tells me I must be doing something right. Something is up with this LOA and Christianity. I* am a Christian and believe Christ to be exactly who He said He was, and I do believe that when the bible was compiled some things were left out and it may concern being able to get exactly what you want out of life as long as it doesnt hurt you or anyone else or go against GODs word. I no longer feel I should be this punching bag for the world and it is amazing. I think a lot Christians need to study it (LOA) -- good and the bad because I think this will be used my some sort of anti christ figure (as was mentioned earlier in this thread). Because, as evident by that thread, many Christians are falling prey to the LOA (via media, government, etc) and they don't even know it. Heh, the same people who are up in arms about LOA are the first people to be pro-gay, choice, worshiping each other with these excessive e-high-fives etc. etc. life is all in how you see it, I guess.


 
^^ What you are doing is mixing light with darkness. The world does not want Christ. The fact that they don't want Christ should tell you something. The true Christians do not want what the world has to offer. If someone is falling prey, pray for them and tell them the truth. It should not be used to justify LOA.

You cannot serve two masters. You will either hate the one and love the other.


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## Highly Favored8 (May 13, 2011)

Crown said:


> Ex. 32 : 21 He said to Aaron, “*What did these people do to you, that you led them into such great sin?*”   22 “Do not be angry, my lord,” *Aaron answered. “You know how prone these people are to evil*. 23 They said to me, ‘Make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him.’ 24 So I told them, ‘Whoever has any gold jewelry, take it off.’ Then they gave me the gold, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!”
> 25 *Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies*. 26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “*Whoever is for the LORD, come to me*.” And all the Levites rallied to him.
> 
> 1Sam. 16 : 7 But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. *People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart*.”
> ...



So you are saying that Dollar, White, Dr.Trimm, Peale, Hagee, Meyer -- there is more I cannot list them all at this moment. These scriptures apply to them and their ministries that they serve.


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## ixoyegodisgood (May 13, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> ^^ What you are doing is mixing light with darkness. The world does not want Christ. The fact that they don't want Christ should tell you something. The true Christians do not want what the world has to offer.  If someone is falling prey, pray for them and tell them the truth. It should not be used to justify LOA.
> 
> You cannot serve too masters. You will either hate the one and love the other.




I respectfully disagree, but people amongst the same circles disagree.  That is why we are all different.  I am serving only one GOD, but nice try.  

Again, we agree to disagree.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 13, 2011)

Highly Favored8 said:


> Oh yeah Dr. Cindy Trimm wrote a book called "Commanding your Morning" she was on the Paula White show talking about the Law of Attraction -LOA and not only that she actually broke it down. Dr. Cindy Trimm is a woman of God-
> 
> Norman Vincent Peale was a Minister- Goodness Pastor John Haggee
> Did a good sermon about how he was very young in minstry and he and his wife were looking for home and how he prayed and had a "vision" "picture" posted up of the exact house that God blessed him with.
> ...


 
Popular does not mean right before God. Gain does not always mean godliness.

*5* useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, *who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.* From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

*Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.*

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 2 Peter 2:1-2


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## Crown (May 13, 2011)

Highly Favored8 said:


> So you are saying that Dollar, White, Dr.Trimm, Peale, Hagee, Meyer -- there is more I cannot list them all at this moment. These scriptures apply to them and their ministries that they serve.



Ps. 16 : 4 Those who run after other gods will suffer more and more. I will not pour out libations of blood to such gods or take up their names on my lips. 5 LORD, you alone are my portion and my cup; you make my lot secure. 


Os. 2 : 17 I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips; no longer will their names be invoked.

Mat. 7 : 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I am saying : only HIM knows the heart.

I am saying : hear HIM !

Because we all will stand before the Throne to give account and receive rewards (or not).

Blessings!


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## Highly Favored8 (May 13, 2011)

Crown said:


> Ps. 16 : 4 Those who run after other gods will suffer more and more. I will not pour out libations of blood to such gods or take up their names on my lips. 5 LORD, you alone are my portion and my cup; you make my lot secure.
> 
> 
> Os. 2 : 17 I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips; no longer will their names be invoked.
> ...



Amen and Amen only God can Judge-  This why in P_salms 143:2 Do not enter into judgement with Your servant, For in Your Sight no one living is righteous._

No one living is righteous no matter how "they" may think or feel.


We all hear God but do we really listen? Do we really I mean really listen to his word and are we truly doer's of His word. 

_Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;Romans 3:23-for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
_


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## ixoyegodisgood (May 14, 2011)

You know what, I was going to leave this thread alone but I have to say something else.  Unfortunately, unlike most the people in this thread, a lot of people in this country were not raised in Rockwellian type homes where everything was picture perfect and everyone was given the correct tools to handle and deal with life.  Some people need extra help even AFTER they become christian.  Trust me, if some ya'lls lives were so perfect, the last place you would toil your time away would be a message board.  There are a lot of hurt people in this world and they have been hurt by, sadly other Christians. 

Moreover I think, because past hurts, a lot of people need the extra help that positive affirmations, visualizations, and meditation offer.  I believe that GOD puts a desire on everyone's heart that He wants to see fulfilled.  However people have to dredge through so much garbage in this world that sometimes we need a little help outside of the bible.  You can't fault anyone for that because WE ALL get help outside the bible when we eat, sleep or do anything outside of prayer and witnessing.  Not every thing in our life is biblically  in line.  If writing down affirmations and and meditating on "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" is wrong than I will answer to GOD.

I like this video on Christian Meditation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSR_XMr7r-w

She described that, even after being a Christian for about 20 years, she was plagued with negative thoughts. One after another like someone was firing a machine gun. For some people, unfortunately, it is that bad.


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## aribell (May 14, 2011)

derring-do said:


> You know what, I was going to leave this thread alone but I have to say something else. * Unfortunately, unlike most the people in this thread, a lot of people in this country were not raised in Rockwellian type homes where everything was picture perfect and everyone was given the correct tools to handle and deal with life.*  Some people need extra help even AFTER they become christian.  Trust me, if some ya'lls lives were so perfect, the last place you would toil your time away would be a message board.  There are a lot of hurt people in this world and they have been hurt by, sadly other Christians.
> 
> Moreover I think, because past hurts, a lot of people need the extra help that positive affirmations, visualizations, and meditation offer.  I believe that GOD puts a desire on everyone's heart that He wants to see fulfilled.  However people have to dredge through so much garbage in this world tha*t sometimes we need a little help outside of the bible.  *You can't fault anyone for that because WE ALL get help outside the bible when we eat, sleep or do anything outside of prayer and witnessing.  Not every thing in our life is biblically  in line.  If writing down affirmations and and meditating on "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" is wrong than I will answer to GOD.



Please don't take the warnings regarding The Secret or LOA as judgment upon anyone's life.  I'm positive that many people who have written cautioning against it could write about things they've struggled with.  Whether LOA or The Secret, or anything else, is of God or acceptable to Him doesn't have anything to do with any person in this thread.

Someone might need extra help, but whatever help we seek has to be based in something that glorifies the Lord.  Not everything that looks positive or helpful actually is.  There are many hidden spiritual snares and obstacles--Satan has many different "wiles" and we are instructed not to be ignorant of them.  Those seeking help in their spiritual life should listen to those pointing out the snares and hidden pitfalls along the journey.  There are believers who have already walked down that road and are telling you that it's a misleading path.  If it is wisdom that someone is seeking, there are so many places to find it that will put a person in 10x a better position than LOA ever could.

There's an element of self-will in LOA and The Secret that is fundamentally at odds with Christian obedience.  You can certainly get results following it, but you will be seeking and accomplishing your will, not that of the Lord.  The Lord's work doesn't come about by thinking positively, it comes about by hearing His word, believing Him, and obeying it.  LOA might help a Christian feel better about their life, but it won't make them more obedient or faithful to God, which is the heart of discipleship.  

Are we fundamentally concerned about attaining the life that _we_ have envisioned for ourselves, or are we fundamentally concerned with following Jesus to the Cross, and obeying to the death?  Continually seeking after the visions that arise out of our own hearts will be a hindrance to hearing God's true voice and following His Spirit in our lives.  Seek to simply obey God's word and be faithful to Him, and whatever blessings *He* has for you will definitely come to you.  And they will be from Him and solely because of Him.


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## lala89 (May 14, 2011)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Please don't take the warnings regarding The Secret or LOA as judgment upon anyone's life.  I'm positive that many people who have written cautioning against it could write about things they've struggled with.  Whether LOA or The Secret, or anything else, is of God or acceptable to Him doesn't have anything to do with any person in this thread.
> 
> Someone might need extra help, but whatever help we seek has to be based in something that glorifies the Lord.  Not everything that looks positive or helpful actually is.  There are many hidden spiritual snares and obstacles--Satan has many different "wiles" and we are instructed not to be ignorant of them.  Those seeking help in their spiritual life should listen to those pointing out the snares and hidden pitfalls along the journey.  There are believers who have already walked down that road and are telling you that it's a misleading path.  If it is wisdom that someone is seeking, there are so many places to find it that will put a person in 10x a better position than LOA ever could.
> 
> ...



Very well said and worth requoting.


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## Shimmie (May 20, 2011)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Please don't take the warnings regarding The Secret or LOA as judgment upon anyone's life.  I'm positive that many people who have written cautioning against it could write about things they've struggled with.  Whether LOA or The Secret, or anything else, is of God or acceptable to Him doesn't have anything to do with any person in this thread.
> 
> Someone might need extra help, but whatever help we seek has to be based in something that glorifies the Lord.  Not everything that looks positive or helpful actually is.  There are many hidden spiritual snares and obstacles--Satan has many different "wiles" and we are instructed not to be ignorant of them.  Those seeking help in their spiritual life should listen to those pointing out the snares and hidden pitfalls along the journey.  There are believers who have already walked down that road and are telling you that it's a misleading path.  If it is wisdom that someone is seeking, there are so many places to find it that will put a person in 10x a better position than LOA ever could.
> 
> ...



[ Nicola ]

Nicola, this is beautiful.


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## Shimmie (May 20, 2011)

_“There is no one holy like the Lord. 
 There is no God but you; 
 there is no Rock like our God. "_

----- 1 Samuel 2:2 NCV


The message?

There is no other God for those who love Him.  

Those who 'Believe' HIM...

Those who choose Him above all other 'gods'. 

There is....... 

... no other God.


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## Crown (May 20, 2011)

derring-do said:


> You know what, I was going to leave this thread alone but I have to say something else.  Unfortunately, unlike most the people in this thread, a lot of people in this country were not raised in Rockwellian type homes where everything was picture perfect and everyone was given the correct tools to handle and deal with life.  Some people need extra help even AFTER they become christian. * Trust me, if some ya'lls lives were so perfect, the last place you would toil your time away would be a message board.*  There are a lot of hurt people in this world and they have been hurt by, sadly other Christians.
> 
> Moreover I think, because past hurts, a lot of people need the extra help that positive affirmations, visualizations, and meditation offer.  I believe that GOD puts a desire on everyone's heart that He wants to see fulfilled.  However people have to dredge through so much garbage in this world that sometimes we need a little help outside of the bible.  You can't fault anyone for that because WE ALL get help outside the bible when we eat, sleep or do anything outside of prayer and witnessing.  Not every thing in our life is biblically  in line.  If writing down affirmations and and meditating on "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" is wrong than I will answer to GOD.
> 
> ...



Are you so sure ?
What is a perfect life ?
Is sharing the Word of GOD not a perfect life ?


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## LoveisYou (May 23, 2011)

Thank you ladies sooooooooooo much for this thread.  I was really involved in LOA, on some level I thought it was harmless, but I can't lie, I had a nagging unsettling feeling about it.  I am so thankful for my Heavenly Father for opening my eyes, i got rid of all those books and prayed to God for forgiveness. This was right on time!


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## blackberry815 (Aug 2, 2011)

I have to read through this later.

Sent from my ADR6400L


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## lilanie (Aug 25, 2011)

I see the thesecret/LOA as bootleg, poisonous imitations of the principles of Bible. Why not go directly to the true source, God's Holy Word???

Reminds me of margarine - everyone got excited about it not being butter; only to find out it's a couple of molecules from plastic...

Please understand my strong statement is in direct relation to the danger of dabbling with ideologies such as these.


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## Laela (Aug 26, 2011)

Excellent analogy! 



lilanie said:


> Reminds me of margarine - everyone got excited about it not being butter; only to find out it's a couple of molecules from plastic...
> 
> Please understand my strong statement is in direct relation to the danger of dabbling with ideologies such as these.


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