# A Preacher's Daughter and MTV's My Super Sweet 16....



## PaperClip (Jan 1, 2008)

Full episode here: http://www.mtv.com/overdrive/?id=1577024&vid=199277

Her father is R.A. Vernon, said to have the largest church in the Cleveland area.

I've not seen this show so I don't have an opinion about the show.... My opinion hasn't formed yet about the involvement of church folk/pastors....

Your thoughts?

ETA: we know that there's bias in editing, so keep that in mind as well....


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## motherx2esq (Jan 1, 2008)

All I can say is wow!  Is this what we are really teaching our Christian children?  The churches money hard at work!​


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## Crackers Phinn (Jan 1, 2008)

They REALLY should have never agreed to film this. 

Before you even get to the party, this child's lifestyle/attitude does not reflect very well on her family.

"Jesus wants me to have this party."

Really?


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## Dee-Licious (Jan 2, 2008)

I just watched it on MTV tonight. 


Showed him preaching in the church and all. She DID say Jesus wanted her to have the party and she should not have a budget.  


I'm trying to keep my thoughts to myself about the girl and the party.  Though it was a NICE party, homegirl was a trip.


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## anherica (Jan 2, 2008)

JCoily said:


> They REALLY should have never agreed to film this.



They sure shouldn't have. 
What happened to modesty? Besides that, if I was a member of his congregation I think I'd be a tad peeved. I don't think offering money should be going to a party for a spoiled teenager. IMO


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## janiebaby (Jan 2, 2008)

motherx2esq said:
			
		

> The churches money hard at work!​


 


			
				anherica said:
			
		

> What happened to modesty? Besides that, if I was a member of his congregation I think I'd be a tad peeved. I don't think offering money should be going to a party for a spoiled teenager. IMO


 
I don't believe that just because a person is a pastor that they should starve and do without but I do think that they have a responsibility to live modestly when it comes to church funds. BUT I don't know the person so maybe his money comes from someplace else, hopefully

I would also like to add that I tend to be cautious of pastors that dress like pimps but that's just me.... (Yep I wanted to say it so I did say it and I stand on it)


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## Cxshortie (Jan 2, 2008)

I saw one yesterday where the guy had on a Christians in Action shirt and gave his daughter 4000 to go shopping at the mall.  Is this the one?  The first thingI thought when I saw that was please dont let him work for a church.


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## cutiebe2 (Jan 2, 2008)

His lack of modesty goes directly against the Christian church.

as the saying goes: "It is easier for a camel to get through a needle eye, than a rich man to get into heaven"

They can have a nice house, but not extravagant like they have now. Plus that girl should not have so many purses and THREE scooters as party gifts




ETA: It doesn't matter where the money comes from. A pastor should not spend like that (although its worse if it came from the church)


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## Renaylor (Jan 2, 2008)

I do believe God can bless you with material things but it is what you do with it that is the question. I was quite blown away with the big house and all the extra "bling" this girl had. However to me it just seemed like too much materialism and all these shows do is show spoiled rich kids-behaving badly to make other kids-who know they can't afford these things want it and want it now. A sweet 16 party yes- but that whole affair seemed something straight out of hollywood. Also the friends that she invited: are they Christians? it seemed liked they were dancing to anything other than gospel music to me(thinK BET -VIDEO VIXXENS). As a daughter of a preacher I figured that her friends would be more from the church.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm going to watch it later.

Frankly, I don't think we should be surprised when Christian children feel entitled. That's what a lot of our churches are teaching...God wants me to be rich, God said I'm supposed to be a millionaire, etc. 

I'll comment more after I watch it.


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## momi (Jan 2, 2008)

I watched the entire episode.  I do not think it was a good idea for them to allow her to participate in the show at all, but compared to former guests she was not as over the top as some of them have been.

She did appear to be spoiled and have the same sense of entitlement that many teenagers have.


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## Sly (Jan 2, 2008)

erplexed

no words


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## gone_fishing (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm so glad this was posted in the Christian Forum. I can Bible Thump in here. 

In my opinion that show nourishes and breeds materialism which is an insatiable animal. Materialism is defined as “the preoccupation with material things rather than intellectual or spiritual things.” Thus, I have no clue why a Pastor of all people would want to teach his children in that way.

I agree with this point of view.

I think any preoccupation or obsession with anything other than God is sinful and is displeasing to Him. We are to “love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might” (Deuteronomy 6:5), which is, according to Jesus, the first and greatest commandment (Matthew 22:37-38). Therefore, God is the only thing we can (and should) occupy ourselves with habitually. He alone is worthy of our complete attention, love and service. To offer these things to anything, or anyone, else is idolatry.

Second, when we concern ourselves with the material world, we are easily drawn in by the “deceit of riches” (Mark 4:19), thinking that we will be happy or fulfilled or content if only we had more of whatever it is we are chasing. This is a lie from the father of lies, Satan. He wants us to be chasing after something he knows will never satisfy us so we will be kept from pursuing that which is the only thing that can satisfy – God Himself. Luke 16:13 tells us we “cannot serve God and money.” We must seek to be content with what we have and materialism is the exact opposite of that contentment. It causes us to strive for more and more and more, all the while telling us that this will be the answer to all our needs and dreams. The Bible tells us that a person’s “life is not in the abundance of the things which he possesses” (Luke 12:15) and that we are to “seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness” (Matthew 6:33).

If materialism was ever to satisfy anyone, it would have been Solomon, the richest king the world has ever known. He had absolutely everything and had more of it than anyone, and yet he found it was all worthless and futile. It did not produce happiness or the satisfaction our souls long for. He declared, “He who loves silver shall not be satisfied with silver” (Ecclesiastes 5:10). In the end, Solomon came to the conclusion that we are to “fear God, and keep His commandments. For this is the whole duty of man” (Ecclesiastes 12:13).


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## chellero (Jan 2, 2008)

if the pastor of that church gets his money from the congregation then he should be ashamed of himself.


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## PaperClip (Jan 2, 2008)

chellero said:


> if the pastor of that church gets his money from the congregation then he should be ashamed of himself.


 
Well now, a pastor (especially one who is doing right by God and the people) I believe is within both spiritual and natural reason to receive compensation for his labor. I'm careful with the use of the word "compensation". This is going to differ across congregations and across other things. Of course the pastor's salary, for example, should not be unreasonable based on the needs to operate the church, from both facilities to employees (if the church has them), various outreach efforts, benevolence, etc.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a pastor who cultivates MULTIPLE STREAMS of income. In other words, the pastor is not restricted in having other legal entrepreneural interests, esp. as long as their primary work is not suffering. In fact, the pastor's salary could be very small in comparison to what it looks like the pastor has. That pastor may have other business interests that are doing well and providing the means, etc.


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## cutiebe2 (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> I'm going to watch it later.
> 
> Frankly, I don't think we should be surprised when Christian children feel entitled. *That's what a lot of our churches are teaching...God wants me to be rich, God said I'm supposed to be a millionaire, etc. *
> 
> I'll comment more after I watch it.



exactly, which is a shame. In our church we are taught that God does want you to be successful, rich, etc.....but only so you can share that wealth with others.

this whole thing about going to church only so YOU can get something out of it for YOU is off the path of christianity


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## Crackers Phinn (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm still done at "Jesus wants me to have this party".

I'm not against pastors living well.  If dude got entrepreneurial interests going on outside of the church and his paper is long, then live it up. 

I guess my issue is that I'd be looking at the preacher and the first lady sideways when the topic of 'honor thy parents' came around after watching their daughter hamming it up.

I normally don't feel bad for pro-athletes, but I felt sorry for ole boy being dragged around to invite people to a kids party.  You know his grandmama'nem go to that church and he got tole he betta do it or else.


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## nakialovesshoes (Jan 2, 2008)

I know nothing about this pastor nor his church. I do agree w/the posts that he shouldn't have even been apart of this. The whole idea was supposed to be to show that Christians can have fun, too. But other than "Jesus wants me to have this party.", there was no mention of Christ & nothing remotely Christian about what was going on. Okay aside from the Christian rap act. As Christians I think we should stand out from the rest of the world. Yet there was clearly nothing different about this teen. Her whole idealogy was, "I get what I want!" To sum it all up, even though she didn't set a good example of a Christian teenager she did seem to play up some of the stereotypes about the PKs being the worst ones.


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## divya (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't even finish the episode...


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## Cleve_gryl (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm glad this thread is here...I am a member of the Word Church and I've been debating with folks all day about this. I've even read some of the ugly comments posted about Chanae on the MTV website (I won't go back to look anymore because they were unnecessary IMO). I think a lot of us (members) knew there would be alot of backlash about this party.

I'd first like to say that MTV scripts a majority of what goes into reality shows. If you look at some of the other parties, they are primarily the same with a couple other aspects thrown in. Knowing the First Family, some of the things they were saying in dialogue didn't even sound like them. They sounded like they were acting. I'm not defending the "materialism" aspect of it all, but why can't they have nice things? Yeah, three scooters may have been a bit much but they didn't buy her a new BMW or Range Rover. I know my tithes and offerings didn't pay for this party because Pastor Vernon has a FEW for profit businesses that sustain his family and lifestyle. He's even told the congregation that he plans to give up his "salary" the church board provides for him.

Our church does more for the city of Cleveland than the city itself.  The church provides GED programs, job placements, grief counseling, we have a shelter for battered women and their children...

Everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions on what they think about the show, but it wasn't a big deal for me. You have to remember that Chanae is a 16 year old girl. Did she say or do things that were unusual for a girl her age? Maybe so, for ones that do not have her financial priviledge. If anyone has any questions about my congregation, feel free to ask.


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## alexstin (Jan 3, 2008)

Cleve_gryl said:


> Everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions on what they think about the show, but it wasn't a big deal for me. You have to remember that Chanae is a 16 year old girl. Did she say or do things that were unusual for a girl her age? Maybe so, for ones that do not have her financial priviledge. If anyone has any questions about my congregation, feel free to ask.





I have no problems whatsoever with a pastor being wealthy but I'm really trying to understand what financial privilege has to do with her attitude. This child kissed a purse. It's the hide of a cow for pete's sake. People that have been taught who they are don't act like that about a piece of leather. 

Her attitude reeks of entitlement "I always get what I want." Hmmmmm 

I'm amazed you think that her behavior is normal for those who are financially well off and are also believers.

If it was all an act I have to ask why would you allow yourself to be portrayed in that light?


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## Cleve_gryl (Jan 3, 2008)

alexstin said:


> I have no problems whatsoever with a pastor being wealthy but I'm really trying to understand what financial privilege has to do with her attitude. This child kissed a purse. It's the hide of a cow for pete's sake. People that have been taught who they are don't act like that about a piece of leather.
> 
> Her attitude reeks of entitlement "I always get what I want." Hmmmmm
> 
> ...


 
  I can't speak for the child or the family as to why she allowed herself to be portrayed in any way.  And, in my post I said that I was not defending the materialistic aspect of the show.  I can just remember being a teenager, and my parents didn't like me very much...Christian or not .  I guess what I'm trying to do is defend my First Family's name since I am a member and know that they don't act or carry themselves in that way on a daily basis.  But, in the end people will make their own assumptions based on what they see and hear, which is only natural.  If I was an outsider and watched the show, I may feel the same way some of yall do.


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## Shimmie (Jan 3, 2008)

Basically is all a 'show off'.  It is.....

And it's sad that humilty has taken a back seat to boasting of one's 'so called riches'.   This is far too lavish for a child.  And indeed this child is spoiled and is not being raised in moral character...should I say, humble.

I don't care what this Pastor does for a living to make income outside of his Church salary, he is still making a mockery out of Christian principles. Even worldly people with 'means' of income show more restraint than this.

And to dismiss this by saying it was 'scripted' by MTV.  My question, is why would anyone, let alone a Pastor put him/herself in this position or this negative image?

It reminds me of those in the ghetto who rise in income, and only come to the 'old neighborhood' to show off what they have and others do not. 

It doesn't take rocket science neither spiritual depth to automatically see that this is not Christian, nor -non Christian mature behavior. 

I feel sorry for this family.  She's no different than Paris Hilton.  This girl is on a dead path to destruction thinking that she's 'entitled' to have such.  No she is NOT.  Not as a Christian or non-Christian.  For surely it does not take being a Christian to see this as a weakness in Character for the parents as well as the child.  The parents are weak and 'feeding' their weakness unto their child.  Sad future ahead, unless this is changed.  

I see her breaking the rules of life one after another, and expecting to be 'excused' for every wrong she does.  I will not be surprised at her having sexual promiscurity, expecting she's entitled to bypass the consequences.   Traffic violations, expecting to bypass legal consequences, Cheating on school exams, expecting to be passed without paying the price of true knowledge.

I'm almost fearful of her getting married.  For how can a loving man of God marry this woman and compete with her selfish, lavish expectations.

The Bible warns us of laciviousness.  Lust of the eye; lust of the flesh...materialism.   I can well understand being blessed of the Lord, but those who are blessed, in turn have humility and modesty.   

Don't make excuses, don't be in denial. These people are living outside of the kingdom and in the 'world' and they love it.    For if we do (deny the truth of this), things like this will only get worse.  We have far too many Pastors who feel the need to compete and they are raising/rearing their children under this same spirit of mammon, which is destroying the testimony of our faith...Jesus Christ, who walked this earth, in spite of His riches and gave His all to all.  

There's nothing wrong with being blessed, but don't allow your character in turn to be a mess.  

Frankly I am ashamed of this Pastor and what he has allowed his daughter to become...which is weak.  Where was Jesus in all of this?  He was never invited to this party.  His name was used in vain.  How sad.


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## tatje (Jan 3, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Basically is all a 'show off'. It is.....
> 
> And it's sad that humilty has taken a back seat to boasting of one's 'so called riches'. This is far too lavish for a child. And indeed this child is spoiled and is not being raised in moral character...should I say, humble.
> 
> ...


 
*What Shimmie?!!* You couldn't have said it any better. ITA. You are always right ------------->here<----------------- with it.

I just want to know why be on the show? The show is about showing off. 

Regardless of it all, the best thing to do when situations like this arise is to pray for the daughter as well as the family. I pray for a change in this daughter's behavior and hopefully grow up to be a virtous woman.


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## motherx2esq (Jan 3, 2008)

Cleve_gryl said:


> I can't speak for the child or the family as to why she allowed herself to be portrayed in any way.  And, in my post I said that I was not defending the materialistic aspect of the show.  I can just remember being a teenager, and my parents didn't like me very much...Christian or not .  I guess what I'm trying to do is defend my First Family's name since I am a member and know that they don't act or carry themselves in that way on a daily basis.  But, in the end people will make their own assumptions based on what they see and hear, which is only natural.  If I was an outsider and watched the show, I may feel the same way some of yall do.



I guess my question to you would be why would feel the need to defend your first family if their action were not wrong in your eyes?  If they are wealthy then good for them but shouldn't a Christian hold their wealth in a higher regard?  Not teacher their children to spend spend spend and that they can have whatever they want?  I really see no humility nor humbleness in that child.  I say this grow up next door to PKs who were not rich but did not want for anything.  Also if this was scripted why wouldn't the First Family just say no that is not us and I cannot act that way?  For the sake of being on MTV?  No they did not buy her a Range Rover or BMW but I don't think just the price of the gift is excessive but just the show that if this is what you want you will get an excess amount.

My own Bishop and his child have lovely things but his children are very humble and very giving children (young adults).  I think not only our congregation would have found that type of behavior in poor taste but Bishop would as well.  But if you see nothing wrong with the light that the allowed themselves to be but in or how they acted, what is to defend?​


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## tatje (Jan 3, 2008)

adequate said:


> I'm so glad this was posted in the Christian Forum. I can Bible Thump in here.
> 
> In my opinion that show nourishes and breeds materialism which is an insatiable animal. Materialism is defined as “the preoccupation with material things rather than intellectual or spiritual things.” Thus, I have no clue why a Pastor of all people would want to teach his children in that way.
> 
> ...


 

So true, as I myself am working on that now. Thanks adequate.


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## Cleve_gryl (Jan 3, 2008)

motherx2esq said:


> *I guess my question to you would be why would feel the need to defend your first family if their action were not wrong in your eyes? *​


 
I don't know  Maybe its because we're just used to defending the church here in town. There are so many rumors about us. I like reading the different opinions on what everyone thinks about this though. It wasn't my party, money or attitude on television for the world to see, so I guess I shouldn't defend a thing they did. Pastor is still my spiritual father, and I'll continue to pray for him and his family. Many blessings ladies!


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## Shimmie (Jan 3, 2008)

tatje said:


> *What Shimmie?!!* You couldn't have said it any better. ITA. You are always right ------------->here<----------------- with it.
> 
> I just want to know why be on the show? The show is about showing off.
> 
> Regardless of it all, the best thing to do when situations like this arise is to pray for the daughter as well as the family. *I pray for a change in this daughter's behavior and hopefully grow up to be a virtous woman*.


Thanks. You are so correct about prayer.  And this child's 'priviledge is so misleading to other children and families who have less.  It's no different than the Michael Jordan, Nike, and other misleading mammom which have brought our youth to false gods and not Jesus Christ.


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## Shimmie (Jan 3, 2008)

Cleve_gryl said:


> I don't know  Maybe its because we're just used to defending the church here in town. There are so many rumors about us. I like reading the different opinions on what everyone thinks about this though. It wasn't my party, money or attitude on television for the world to see, so I guess I shouldn't defend a thing they did. Pastor is still my spiritual father, and I'll continue to pray for him and his family. Many blessings ladies!


 
Hi Lady Cleve_gryl ...

You have a 'loyal' heart...Yes you do   No one can fault you for loving your Pastors, as you have a 'relationship' with them and their family, but Cleve_gryl, most of all, you have the love of Christ, for you see past errors and choose to love.

I mean this with all of my heart, for this is you.  No matter where God places you, it will be in a position where love must abound above the weaknesses of men/women and you have the capacity to do this as God wills and leads you to. 

I came against this issue and issue only with the party and MTV.  And although I stand on my perception of this 'party' and the child involved, I stand even stronger on what I perceive of you.  A woman of God who is loyal no matter what the odds are against her calling. 

God bless you.  I truly hope my comments about your Pastor and the young girl did not 'hurt' you.  You are not the object, the actions are.  

May I say this?  I too defended my first Pastors (my first home Church) who did so much of what we've seen in this sweet 16 scenerio.   We started out humble and small.  I never 'saw' what others 'spoke' of; I defended all that they did.  Their million dollar home; their Benz's, and so much extravagance; they were blessed, but it was 'mis -presented' and misused and they 'fell.'   Yes, they fell.  Their children fell as well as other family members.  It was a gradual fall, but it occurred anyway, until it became a domino effect.   Why?  They didn't have Jesus correctly presented in their lives.   

Yet it was the love of persons just like you, who nurtured them through the fall, and kept them through loving prayer and a loving example of real life in Christ Jesus.  

Lady Cleve_gryl, I believe you are among the 'pillars' to help those caught up in riches more than Jesus.  Stay strong and keep the boat afloat.  Defend not your Churches actions, but instead their life from falling.  We don't need another story for the media to have a hay day with. 

God bless you and I mean this with all of my heart...

Shimmie....


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## Bubblingbrownshuga (Jan 3, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Basically is all a 'show off'. It is.....
> 
> And it's sad that humilty has taken a back seat to boasting of one's 'so called riches'. This is far too lavish for a child. And indeed this child is spoiled and is not being raised in moral character...should I say, humble.
> 
> ...


 
Wow! What a deep response! I have no words, but wow...


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## Shimmie (Jan 4, 2008)

Bubblingbrownshuga said:


> Wow! What a deep response! I have no words, but wow...


Hey little sister... 

It's not so deep as it is the truth.  There's too much focus on 'Palace' living as opposed to Kingdom living going on with Pastors.  And the sad thing is that the congregation is suffering for it.   So many followers are doing just that...'following' ... trying to keep up an image of 'what I got'.

What really bothers me is this child's 'sick' (and I do mean, 'sick') comment that 'Jesus wants her to have this party.'    Well who the 'hell' cares? (and I do mean 'hell' for hell is having a party of its own with this entire event.)   So, who cares?  NO ONE!!!!! Jesus isn't about lavious nonsense such as this.  Saying that to justify what they all knew was extreme, didn't cut it and it never will.  

God does want to bless us and He does allow us to have nice things and to enjoy the 'fruit of our labor.'  But this display was wrong and did not give God glory.  

To whom much is given, much is required.  They will have to 'answer' to this, when the Church is bashed once again regarding Pastors who fleece the sheep; when children 'steal' to have the same; when tax time comes and there's an expense not reported.  Believe me, the government and the media are waiting and watching for the next opportunity to 'pounce' upon the next ministry and without mercy.


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## MizzBrown (Jan 4, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> *To whom much is given, much is required*. They will have to 'answer' to this, when the Church is bashed once again regarding Pastors who fleece the sheep; when children 'steal' to have the same; when tax time comes and there's an expense not reported. Believe me, the government and the media are waiting and watching for the next opportunity to 'pounce' upon the next ministry and without mercy.


 

Hmmmm, thats my quote for the day. I'm gonna start saying that to people who come around me bragging about their good life. And they do brag, but let them tell it and they are testifying. I'd like to think people just don't get good fortune for nothing.


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## Honey6928215 (Jan 4, 2008)

It just so happens that I saw the clip on another website and now I see it posted here. I wasn't able to comment on that website because you have to be a registered user but thank goodness RelaxerRehab you posted here on the Christian forum because I feel I can speak freely about this. 

When I viewed the clip I was soooo disgusted! AND they are showing it right when the Senator is doing an investigation of these megapastors and their churches!! But like someone mentioned in the previous post they are watching. But the thing that bothers me the most is that she's using Jesus name in order to get what she wants. 'Jesus wants me to have this party.' Are you kidding me?! I couldn't believe this! 

Don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong with having nice things but I feel that the girl was seriously flaunting it. And why would you want to do it on MTV of all places!!!! Come on now, I shouldn't have to explain that one! I'm sorry but I have to get that off my chest! I feel sorry for that girl because when you give a child too much at such a young age she's not going to learn to appreciate it. And she's going to expect everything to be handed down to her but life is not like that. Maybe she will get what she wants from her parents but once she gets out in the world, it's not going to matter whose daughter she is. Understand what I'm saying? 

I was too through when I saw that and believe me people had A LOT to say about the show.


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## Honey6928215 (Jan 4, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Basically is all a 'show off'. It is.....
> 
> And it's sad that humilty has taken a back seat to boasting of one's 'so called riches'. This is far too lavish for a child. And indeed this child is spoiled and is not being raised in moral character...should I say, humble.
> 
> ...


 
That's how I saw it, Shimmie.  A complete show off.  I don't they they realize once you do that it can bring unwanted attention to their family.  That's why I'm shocked and disgusted that they would do it on MTV.


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## Honey6928215 (Jan 4, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Hi Lady Cleve_gryl ...
> 
> You have a 'loyal' heart...Yes you do  No one can fault you for loving your Pastors, as you have a 'relationship' with them and their family, but Cleve_gryl, most of all, you have the love of Christ, for you see past errors and choose to love.
> 
> ...


 
Couldn't said it better myself, Shimmie.


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## Shimmie (Jan 4, 2008)

MizzBrown said:


> Hmmmm, thats my quote for the day. I'm gonna start saying that to people who come around me bragging about their good life. And they do brag, but let them tell it and they are testifying. I'd like to think people just don't get good fortune for nothing.


MizzBrown, you're so right!  Many of them are indeed bragging.  The thing is, many are not used to having anything and they go off the deep end 'telling everybody' what 'they got'.   They name drop everything they have, ("my Benz", my $$$$ bank account and so on).  

It's one thing to sincerely testify givng God the glory for our blessings and a whole nuther thing to flaunt it. 

I thank God for you blessings 1000 - fold.


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## Shimmie (Jan 4, 2008)

Honey6928215 said:


> That's how I saw it, Shimmie. A complete show off. I don't they they realize once you do that it can bring unwanted attention to their family. That's why I'm shocked and disgusted that they would do it on MTV.


That's why our ministries are under so much scrutiny and attack now by the media and others.   The problem is that so many ministers are trying to compete (or sadly trying to 'keep up') with this lavious lifestyle.  And they get into high debt, start mis-using funds designated for other purposes in ministry.  They're too caught up in this high profile lifestyle and that's not what Jesus called us to.  

We can be blessed financially, God doesn't mind blessing us with an abundant life, but we have to guard how we profile it both publicly and privately.  We have to be 'humble' with it.   This MTV thing brings shame on the Church.  It looks bad no matter how it's justified.


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## Honey6928215 (Jan 4, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> That's why our ministries are under so much scrutiny and attack now by the media and others. The problem is that so many ministers are trying to compete (or sadly trying to 'keep up') with this lavious lifestyle. And they get into high debt, start mis-using funds designated for other purposes in ministry. They're too caught up in this high profile lifestyle and that's not what Jesus called us to.
> 
> *We can be blessed financially, God doesn't mind blessing us with an abundant life, but we have to guard how we profile it both publicly and privately. We have to be 'humble' with it. This MTV thing brings shame on the Church. It looks bad no matter how it's justified*.


 
 DOUBLE CO-SIGN ON THAT!!! I have faith that God will bless me with a abundant life but I'm not going to rub it in anybody face.  You are right about being humble about it because it can easily be taken away.  They must have missed that one.


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## Shimmie (Jan 4, 2008)

Honey6928215 said:


> DOUBLE CO-SIGN ON THAT!!! I have faith that God will bless me with a abundant life but I'm not going to rub it in anybody face. You are right about being humble about it because it can easily be taken away. They must have missed that one.


Amen Honey...... We are to be blessed. But God says that we are in this world to give HIM glory, not the world or its ways. We are in this world but not of it. We are supposed to demonstrate and 'live' the example when God blesses us. 

We don't have to make a mockery of what God has done for us, but acting foolish with it.


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## Dee-Licious (Jan 6, 2008)

bump!

It's on right now on MTV


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## Blossssom (Jan 6, 2008)

Um... wow!  Too bad she's not cute!  That's the lifestyle a cute chick should be living!

That house was MAD!

Goddammit!  Where did I go WRONG?  Things have GOT to change!

I WANT THAT HOUSE!


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## Monigirl (Jan 6, 2008)

Now that church is gonna attrack so much media attention like many others huge ministries do and they better be ready to answer some questions. The bible says" be in the world, not of this world" and allowing their daughter to do this was being of the world. 

I had a non-christian freind come over last night arguing big christian churches are fake and money hungry organizations b/c of the show. After hours of conversation we got through to him not all churches are like that and etc..


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## firecracker (Jan 6, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> Um... wow! *Too bad she's not cute! That's the lifestyle a cute chick should be living!*
> 
> *Goddammit! Where did I go WRONG? Things have GOT to change!*


 why oh whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


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## firecracker (Jan 6, 2008)

Wow I just watched this episode.  Why did they allow that chile to dress up as a oversized black pleather Michelin Man?   I guess she got three scooters so her friends can roll with her.


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## PaperClip (Jan 6, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> Um... wow! Too bad she's not cute! That's the lifestyle a cute chick should be living!
> 
> That house was MAD!
> 
> ...


 
taking the Lord's name in vain, ESPECIALLY in the CHRISTIAN FORUM!

Lovin' ya with the love of the Lord....


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## Shimmie (Jan 7, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> taking the Lord's name in vain, ESPECIALLY in the CHRISTIAN FORUM!
> 
> Lovin' ya with the love of the Lord....


I totally agree, "RR".   

Blosssom, please 'edit' your post sweetheart. This vernacular doesn't belong here in our Christianity forum.  

We love you, Blosssom.


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## tyrablu (Jan 7, 2008)

I saw this yesterday and all I could do is . As a pastor he should have known better than to agree to do this. You have to be very careful of what you do in order not to cause the next person to stumble. 

My friend and I saw this (and I must add that we are not regular church going folk) and we both had the same reaction.


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## Maa Maa omo mti (Jan 23, 2008)

Cleve_gryl said:


> I don't know  M*aybe its because we're just used to defending the church here in town.* There are so many rumors about us. I like reading the different opinions on what everyone thinks about this though. It wasn't my party, money or attitude on television for the world to see, so I guess I shouldn't defend a thing they did. Pastor is still my spiritual father, and I'll continue to pray for him and his family. Many blessings ladies!



seems to me that there is a deeper issue here. ......  and them doing the tv show doesn't make the rumor stop but it provides fuel.


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## comike (Jan 23, 2008)

janiebaby said:


> I don't believe that just because a person is a pastor that they should starve and do without but I do think that they have a responsibility to live modestly when it comes to church funds. BUT I don't know the person so maybe his money comes from someplace else, hopefully
> 
> I would also like to add that I tend to be cautious of pastors that dress like pimps but that's just me.... (Yep I wanted to say it so I did say it and I stand on it)


 
So....just because you contribute to the pastor's salary you feel you have a say on what he does with his money?  Interesting?


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## Maa Maa omo mti (Jan 23, 2008)

I feel that this has to be repeated again:


I was having this discussion recently and my friend made the best comments I've ever heard. and I think we really need to keep it in mind



> I mean what are they saying isnt new right? packaging up gods words and reselling it........... give the info to the ppl and secure your place in heaven


basically why are we so worried about worldly things. Why has the shift in goals gone from after life to present life?


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## Theo (Jan 23, 2008)

Pastors are human, just like everybody else. ALL OF THEM have their various weaknesses, and are only able to work in ministry by the grace of God. I'm not saying this to condone this man's behavior or anything, but Jesus did say that "He who has not sinned throw the first stone,"  therefore, I generally have very little to say in condemnation of someone else's behavior. I don't even want to ask you all what your spending habits are, the way you all have responded would make me think that you give to the homeless shelter once a a week and have more adopted kids than Angelina Jolie. Still, pastors will always be put on a pedestal, held to a higher standard than anyone else, and judged far too harshly. 

One thing that really bothers me though, is how harshly you all have judged this little girl. I haven't watched the show, but I'm sure she has her faults, as well as her strengths. SHE IS A CHILD. I am especially upset about the long post back there where someone was talking about how she expects this girl to be sexually promiscuous in life/ a cheater on tests, etc. What kind of confession is that to make on someone's life, let alone a child? And you call yourself a Christian? A mature one, at that? 

All this talk is in no way edifying to neither yourself nor this pastors family. I also doubt that anyone of you have tried to call this family to rebuke him in the Spirit, and therefore it only amounts to gossip. Spiteful and malicious gossip, clothed in self-righteous quotes of Scripture. It is to be expected though, this is the "Christian" forum, and where there is church folk, there will be gossip. 

I know that I'm probably going to get a backlash about this post, but honestly, I couldn't care less. I myself am preacher's daughter and people have been talking about me my entire life. Here's a couple of verses that I found appropriate however because God said it the best: 

_*"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Phillipians 4:8*_
_*

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? *_ _*Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."*_

_*Matthew 7:1-5*_


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## toyagurl (Jan 23, 2008)

adequate said:


> I'm so glad this was posted in the Christian Forum. I can Bible Thump in here.
> 
> In my opinion that show nourishes and breeds materialism which is an insatiable animal. Materialism is defined as “the preoccupation with material things rather than intellectual or spiritual things.” Thus, I have no clue why a Pastor of all people would want to teach his children in that way.
> 
> ...




Thank You.
This post is beautifully written and pure in purpose.


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## Shimmie (Jan 24, 2008)

freelove said:


> Pastors are human, just like everybody else. ALL OF THEM have their various weaknesses, and are only able to work in ministry by the grace of God. I'm not saying this to condone this man's behavior or anything, but Jesus did say that "He who has not sinned throw the first stone," therefore, I generally have very little to say in condemnation of someone else's behavior. I don't even want to ask you all what your spending habits are, the way you all have responded would make me think that you give to the homeless shelter once a a week and have more adopted kids than Angelina Jolie. Still, pastors will always be put on a pedestal, held to a higher standard than anyone else, and judged far too harshly.
> 
> One thing that really bothers me though, is how harshly you all have judged this little girl. I haven't watched the show, but I'm sure she has her faults, as well as her strengths. SHE IS A CHILD. I am especially upset about the long post back there where someone was talking about how she expects this girl to be sexually promiscuous in life/ a cheater on tests, etc. What kind of confession is that to make on someone's life, let alone a child? And you call yourself a Christian? A mature one, at that?
> 
> ...


 
I can understand your 'offense' and you taking this personally for you've stated that you are a Preacher's Daughter (a PK). 

I stand by what I said in my post that this child's mindset is geared towards danger, if she continues as she has been taught. She does not have principles....Godly principles. For you to defend her actions and not 'see' the harm this show and their participation has done to the Body is blind. Be offended, yes. But don't be blinded to the truth. 

This family has not only mis-represented Christianity, but they have done so publicly and world-wide and this show is STILL being played and re-played for all the world to see; adding more to the fire that is already set against us as Christians. 

If anything precious one, I would expect that you as a preacher's daughter to be even more upset. For this family mis-represents you. You say you are a Christian, you say not to judge, yet you've judged us. We didn't do this to this girl, her parents did and this child is under the impression that she is entitled to feel and live the way she does.

We are not you enemy here.  We did not attack you, if anything our comments were a compliment to you for we have stated the value of one in your position, as opposed to this MTV spotlight which has now labeled ALL preachers and ALL preacher's children as materialistic, selfish, worldly, and most definitely not followers of Jesus Christ. This show does not represent who we are. It does not.   It tears down 'our' testimony.

I'm sorry my post offended you. I really am. I'm not insentive to you nor this situation.  I 'feel' for you.  Your life growin up as a Pastor's child must have been very hard for you.  Why?  Because of displays such as this by this family on MTV for all to see and have only negative perspectives of it..    If anything, I'm more sensitive than you are. 

Why? Because I have children; my Pastors have children; and I have friends in and out of minstry postitions with children, and family with children and we are ALL Christians who follow Jesus Christ. 

Our children are ridiculed and challenged daily for their faith enough as it is. And to have this national and world-wide mis-presentation of who they are in Christ Jesus is morbid. For it brings a sad death to the testimony of teens and youth who have chosen to follow Jesus Christ with all of their hearts, minds and souls, no matter what. 

This family has put a false image and a dirty label upon Christian youth. Any 'judgement' of her is justified. For she brings this upon her own choosing. Her choosing materials over Jesus and then dare to lie and say He wanted her to have it. Yes, it's a lie. For God says to shun even the very appearence of evil. 

This child feels entitled to her luxury, using Jesus to justify it. How wrong! Her mindset of entitlement is only a path to future destruction if she is not properly guided. For the lust of the flesh does breed sexual sins, more lies, cheating...it's in God's word. 

Blessings to you...


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## Theo (Jan 24, 2008)

No... Shimmie, its cool. I was just trying to point out that things aren't always as they seem. I did get a little carried away I suppose... its a sensitive issue for me.  Lol... 

Like I said, I didn't watch the show, and who knows... if I end watching it one day, it may strike a chord in my spirit as well.


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## Shimmie (Jan 24, 2008)

freelove said:


> No... Shimmie, its cool. I was just trying to point out that things aren't always as they seem. I did get a little carried away I suppose... *its a sensitive issue for me*.  Lol...
> 
> Like I said, I didn't watch the show, and who knows... if I end watching it one day, it may strike a chord in my spirit as well.


 I know it's not easy for you. I wish that I could take all of the hurt away that you and many other's have suffered being related to a Minister, and especially a precious child of one. 

I went through all kinds of fire and brimstone, as I was the only one in my family and former set of friends who got saved and I went through a horrible time. But it taught me something, I chose to grow even closer to Jesus and I have no regrets for these same persons come to me for prayer and scripture without fail. 

You have every right to feel the way you do. You lived and know the heart of your family and your own heart. And I believe you and I believe in you. I believe you are a woman of God and nothing less; your family raised you right. 

All of the mess that's being profiled in the news about ministries makes us have to work even harder to be a testimony unto Jesus. For we can't even drink a cup of tea or coffee in Starbucks without speculation from others. I don't dare spill a drop of coffee on my sleeve. I'll be accused of wasting God's money.  

Much love to you. Stand firm; I'm standing with you.


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## naijamerican (Jan 24, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> Frankly, I don't think we should be surprised when Christian children feel entitled. That's what a lot of our churches are teaching...God wants me to be rich, God said I'm supposed to be a millionaire, etc.



I totally and completely agree. This party is absolutely appalling and to try to do it in the name of showing that Christians have fun, too, smacks of nothing but hypocrisy. Simply put, what would Jesus do? What DID Jesus do, He who scorned the riches of the world that Satan laid at His feet? What about Paul, who worked as a tent-maker so that he would not burden the early Church? I am so disgusted with the "Prosperity Gospel" and the notion that God wants us to be rich. Look at what it has produced.  And I'm not saying that God wants us to be poor. But Christians should not be flaunting their wealth. There is a wealthy couple in my Church whose children are God-fearing and obedient. They always use their house to host Church gatherings and work to build up the singles ministry. Having babysat for these kids overnight, I know that they have been made to understand that being a Christian is about sacrifice. 

I am just too through!


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## naijamerican (Jan 24, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> I can understand your 'offense' and you taking this personally for you've stated that you are a Preacher's Daughter (a PK).
> 
> I stand by what I said in my post that this child's mindset is geared towards danger, if she continues as she has been taught. She does not have principles....Godly principles. For you to defend her actions and not 'see' the harm this show and their participation has done to the Body is blind. Be offended, yes. But don't be blinded to the truth.
> 
> ...



I appreciate reading this. I didn't read the thread on purpose because I really didn't want to share things that may be palatable for what people believe rather than expressing my true beliefs. 

The reason I'm glad is because I should not have suggested that the "Prosperity Gospel" is wholly at fault for what happened. Even though I do think that that line of thinking is flawed, it's not entirely to blame for this girl. Her parents are also responsible. They do need to also check themselves and perhaps members of their congregation need to check them, too. 

As I have several friends who are preachers' kids, I know firsthand that many of them are not wild, and I know that they're parents raised them to fear God and respect His Church and, consequently, the financial sacrifices of others. Truly, I am saddened at the portrayal of Christianity by this particular episode. 

I am not going to go so far as to suggest that sexual sins are sure to follow. I don't know what her walk with God is like, but I can tell that it is fairly superficial as evidenced by having this party and her staunch refusal to do it in a moderate manner.


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## 1QTPie (Jan 24, 2008)

Cleve_gryl said:


> I'm glad this thread is here...I am a member of the Word Church and I've been debating with folks all day about this. I've even read some of the ugly comments posted about Chanae on the MTV website (I won't go back to look anymore because they were unnecessary IMO). I think a lot of us (members) knew there would be alot of backlash about this party.
> 
> I'd first like to say that MTV scripts a majority of what goes into reality shows. If you look at some of the other parties, they are primarily the same with a couple other aspects thrown in. Knowing the First Family, some of the things they were saying in dialogue didn't even sound like them. They sounded like they were acting. I'm not defending the "materialism" aspect of it all, but why can't they have nice things? Yeah, three scooters may have been a bit much but they didn't buy her a new BMW or Range Rover. I know my tithes and offerings didn't pay for this party because Pastor Vernon has a FEW for profit businesses that sustain his family and lifestyle. He's even told the congregation that he plans to give up his "salary" the church board provides for him.
> 
> ...



I have said this a million times over. I know for a fact that MTV provokes the teens to act out. Some of it is their true personality, but most of it is an act. I also KNOW that they buy those gifts for the kids and pay for a portion of the parties. They get them party planners if they don't have them, they facilitate locations etc. The parents are well off for sure, but MTV is in their pockets. The parents CAN decided if they want MTV to buy a car or whatever, they can say no and still have the show, but as you see, most parents don't say no. 

Before Gerald Levert passed, he said that he allowed MTV to pick the Venue and the performing artists for his daughter's party but he asked them not to buy her a car. They did it anyway and he returned it.


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## naijamerican (Jan 24, 2008)

1QTPie said:


> I have said this a million times over. I know for a fact that MTV provokes the teens to act out. Some of it is their true personality, but most of it is an act. I also KNOW that they buy those gifts for the kids and pay for a portion of the parties. They get them party planners if they don't have them, they facilitate locations etc. The parents are well off for sure, but MTV is in their pockets. The parents CAN decided if they want MTV to buy a car or whatever, they can say no and still have the show, but as you see, most parents don't say no.
> 
> Before Gerald Levert passed, he said that he allowed MTV to pick the Venue and the performing artists for his daughter's party but he asked them not to buy her a car. They did it anyway and he returned it.



What?!!!


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## apemay1969 (Jan 24, 2008)

I can't even watch it anymore.  My momma is struggling to pay bills and her pastor just built himself a mansion in the most exclusive part of town.  She tithes and offers her last as if God is the Celestial Santa.  

I can't take it.  Worse thing about it is he's my first cousin.


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## PaperClip (Jan 24, 2008)

apemay1969 said:


> I can't even watch it anymore. My momma is struggling to pay bills and her pastor just built himself a mansion in the most exclusive part of town. She tithes and offers her last as if God is the Celestial Santa.
> 
> I can't take it. Worse thing about it is he's my first cousin.


 
I don't mean to throw off insensitively, but exactly why is your mom struggling? Is she living beyond her means? Is she working? 

Your mom's struggle is not automatically connected to her GIVING her tithes and offerings unto the LORD, NOT the pastor.


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## alexstin (Jan 24, 2008)

1QTPie said:


> I have said this a million times over. I know for a fact that MTV provokes the teens to act out. Some of it is their true personality, but most of it is an act. I also KNOW that they buy those gifts for the kids and pay for a portion of the parties. They get them party planners if they don't have them, they facilitate locations etc. The parents are well off for sure, but MTV is in their pockets. The parents CAN decided if they want MTV to buy a car or whatever, they can say no and still have the show, but as you see, most parents don't say no.
> 
> Before Gerald Levert passed, he said that he allowed MTV to pick the Venue and the performing artists for his daughter's party but he asked them not to buy her a car. They did it anyway and he returned it.



And they go along with it just to be on TV and get free stuff.


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## Cleve_gryl (Jan 24, 2008)

abenyo said:


> *seems to me that there is a deeper issue here*. ...... and them doing the tv show doesn't make the rumor stop but it provides fuel.


 
Yes, there is a deeper issue to the rumor mill.  It's all good though, the rumors will never cease...but our church family has been growing by at least 40 members each service, so souls are being saved .


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## Shimmie (Jan 24, 2008)

comike said:


> So....just because you contribute to the pastor's salary you feel you have a say on what he does with his money? Interesting?


Actually in some ways, yes.  It's our hard earned money and if its being mis-used / abused then we do have a right to say something and/or not give anything further.  Move on and give to another ministry more responsible.  One of the reasons there's such a financial uproar in the news, is misuse of funds.

I personally am not 'seeding' into dead works.


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## Shimmie (Jan 24, 2008)

Cleve_gryl said:


> Yes, there is a deeper issue to the rumor mill. It's all good though, the rumors will never cease...but our church family has been growing by at least 40 members each service, so souls are being saved .


For you, Cleve_gryl: ...  My comments are rough, but they have nothing to do with you.  I respect you highly.    Just wanted to say how much you are appreciated.


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## Shimmie (Jan 24, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> I don't mean to throw off insensitively, but exactly why is your mom struggling? Is she living beyond her means? Is she working?
> 
> *Your mom's struggle is not automatically connected to her GIVING her tithes and offerings unto the LORD*, NOT the pastor.


I totally agree with you RR.  I learned a while back that as 'Christians' our seeds are hindered from producing because of the ground being sown into.  

If the Ministry is doing the work of the Lord faithfully, then surely, we will prosper and reap the harvest.  For we've sown into 'fertile' ground.  But if the Ministry is heaping the funds upon themselves, then it's dead ground. And we are wasting our 'seed'.  Jesus gives seed to the sower, and we need to be good stewarts with the seed He blesses us to sow with.  If the Ministry is not doing His work with our seed, then it's time to move on to fertile ground...a Ministry doing God's will.  

Also, many suffer because 'faith without works is dead."  Many Christians do not act upon their faith and do not reach out to obtain the blessings that God has for them.  Hence the blessings just sit and and go unclaimed, so to speak.  

We need to ask God where to sow and what to sow and when each time we have a gift for His altar.  In turn go out and act upon our faith.  For God will withhold no good thing from those He loves.


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## Shimmie (Jan 24, 2008)

1QTPie said:


> I have said this a million times over. I know for a fact that MTV provokes the teens to act out. Some of it is their true personality, but most of it is an act. I also KNOW that they buy those gifts for the kids and pay for a portion of the parties. They get them party planners if they don't have them, they facilitate locations etc. The parents are well off for sure, but MTV is in their pockets. The parents CAN decided if they want MTV to buy a car or whatever, they can say no and still have the show, but as you see, most parents don't say no.
> 
> Before Gerald Levert passed, he said that he allowed MTV to pick the Venue and the performing artists for his daughter's party but he asked them not to buy her a car. They did it anyway and he returned it.


So MTV is their God, the director and orchestrator of their 'Testimony.'  I'm sad to say that I saw this comment. Why? Where was his foot to put down against this. Where was his stand? Why do we have Christians who wimp out for the 'world'? Obviously MTV was his God and not Jesus. At least that' how it 'appears'. 

The point I'm trying to make here is that all he had to do was say NO! All he had to do was take a stand against MTV and make it plain that what they were asking him to do is not a good witness for the God whom he serves nor for the Body of Christ. This goes against his convictions as a man of God and it is not the manner that he wishes his children or congregation to be a reproach of. 

That's all he had to do and then walk away. But now he can never take it back.  MTV was his choice over God. What price to do it right for Jesus? 

What does it profit a man, to gain the whole world and lose his soul? He sold out. He wanted to be in the spotlight and the price was he sold out for 30 pieces of silver....

MTV, one of the biggest arenas against God....like unto another King Nebakanezzer.   But Shadrach, Meshach and Abinego refused to bow and they didn't burn in the firey furnace that they were thrown into.  

Neither was Daniel attacked by the lions in their own den....

Love and blessings...


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## Blkprincess (Jan 25, 2008)

no wonder they're investigating these super churches!!  why does a preacher need a private jet?  is that where your collection plate offerings go? I don't even want to know how much it cost to fuel that jet alone. I mean, there's nothing wrong with material things...but that is just pure materialism, and there's a diff.  no modesty, humility....what ever happened to keeping your eye simple. just because you _can _give your child everything, doesn't mean that you should.


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## SEMO (Jan 25, 2008)

No matter what the truth is about this family, perception is reality for most people.  That's why the Bible says to avoid the very appearance of evil.


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## PaperClip (Jan 25, 2008)

SEMO said:


> No matter what the truth is about this family, perception is reality for most people. That's why the Bible says to avoid the very appearance of evil.


 
Hmmm... that applies if you think money is evil. I don't think money is evil. The bible says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. 1 Timothy 6:10

Such things (money) look evil to people that don't have money. And if part of the reason that a person doesn't have money is because they are LAZY, ohhhhh welllllll....

Proverbs 6:
" 6 Go to the ant, O lazy person. Watch and think about her ways, and be wise. 7 She has no leader, head or ruler, 8 but she gets her food ready in the summer, and gathers her food at the right time. 9 How long will you lie down, O lazy person? When will you rise up from your sleep? 10 A little sleep, a little rest, a little folding of the hands to rest, 11 and being poor will come upon you like a robber, and your need like a man ready to fight." 

That's book right there. The Bible says you don't work, you don't eat. 2 Thessalonians 3:10


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