# Long 4a coily naturals



## La Colocha (Jul 23, 2009)

Are there any women here with long 4a coily hair, I have yet to see any. Are there any here? If you can please post a pic for inspiration. Thanks


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## Neith (Jul 23, 2009)

I'd like to see too


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## msa (Jul 23, 2009)

Rabs77 is a long coily natural. I think Velvet is as well.


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## La Colocha (Jul 23, 2009)

msa said:


> Rabs77 is a long coily natural. I think Velvet is as well.


 
Thank you msa, ive seen 4b and 3's but i have yet to see someone with long hair that is similar to mine. I hope they come in.


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## msa (Jul 23, 2009)

Velvet doesn't post much, but here's her fotki: http://public.fotki.com/velvethalo/.


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## SEMO (Jul 23, 2009)

Not sure if I qualify  (eveybody's idea of hair types seems different--to me 3c & 4a are the same thing), but here it goes:


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## Ronnieaj (Jul 23, 2009)

SEMO said:


> Not sure if I qualify  (eveybody's idea of hair types seems different--to me 3c & 4a are the same thing), but here it goes:



Oh great gracious can I have your hair!!!!!  It is BEAUTIFUL!  Completely .  Did your hair grow out then down?  What is your regi?  It is genuinely gorgeous SEMO.  It really is.  Did you find that your hair's weight caused the curls to look looser?  Sorry for all the questions, but this is my hair dream, and we look to have the same type, so I'm going to be stalking you for some time!  Apologizing in advance...


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## La Colocha (Jul 23, 2009)

SEMO said:


> Not sure if I qualify  (eveybody's idea of hair types seems different--to me 3c & 4a are the same thing), but here it goes:


 
How beautiful semo, thank you. You qualify girl. Can i please ask when your hair started growing longer did your coils get looser or did they just grow longer and stay the same?


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## msa (Jul 23, 2009)

Ooooo Neith, Semo might be your hair twin. Y'alls hair looks similar.


ETA: Neith did you post somewhere that you mix henna powder (or some ayurvedic powder) with warmed up coconut oil? If you did, can you give me more info please.


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## Neith (Jul 23, 2009)

SEMO said:


> Not sure if I qualify  (eveybody's idea of hair types seems different--to me 3c & 4a are the same thing), but here it goes:



Your hair is gorgeous! :trampolin





msa said:


> Ooooo Neith, Semo might be your hair twin. Y'alls hair looks similar.
> 
> 
> ETA: Neith did you post somewhere that you mix henna powder (or some ayurvedic powder) with warmed up coconut oil? If you did, can you give me more info please.



I see some similarities in there, but naw.  We just hair cousins I think 

That wasn't me.  Sounds yummy though


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## msa (Jul 23, 2009)

Neith said:


> Your hair is gorgeous! :trampolin
> 
> I see some similarities in there, but naw.  We just hair cousins I think
> 
> That wasn't me.  Sounds yummy though




Your hair looks like a kinky version of hers, if that makes sense. 

Anyway, I wonder who it was that posted that. Now I'm going to have to search for it and I know it was in a really random thread. I knew I should have bookmarked it.


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## ladylibra (Jul 23, 2009)

SEMO said:


> Not sure if I qualify  (eveybody's idea of hair types seems different--to me 3c & 4a are the same thing)



IA, to an extent.  3c and 4a are _veeeeerrrrrrrry_ similar.

I have 3c up front and up top... I call it my canopy.  The back/nape is 4a.  The curls/clumps are pretty much the same size... but the 3c is slighly looser, less of a tight coil and more of an S-wave.  That's the only difference I notice (other than the 3c being dryer), my hair overall responds the same to  products.  If I use my Denman, it all looks the same because the 3c areas will turn into spiral curls.

I see a lot of 4a, especially in the pics of the back of your hair.  But, I see some 3c parts too.  I think we have similar hair actually.

In any case, OP - if you take into account my 4a hair in the back/nape, I qualify and you can see my pics in my Fotki.


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## SEMO (Jul 23, 2009)

:blush3:





Ronnieaj said:


> Oh great gracious can I have your hair!!!!! It is BEAUTIFUL! Completely . Did your hair grow out then down? What is your regi? It is genuinely gorgeous SEMO. It really is. Did you find that your hair's weight caused the curls to look looser? Sorry for all the questions, but this is my hair dream, and we look to have the same type, so I'm going to be stalking you for some time! Apologizing in advance...


 
Thanks for the compliments.    My hair does grow kinda out, then down.  The best I can describe it is that my hair grows at a 45 degree angle.  And I do think that the longer my hair gets the looser some of the curls are.  But it's hard to tell if it's the added weight, different hair textures, my improved technique/products, etc. 

This is a pic from right after I big chopped:





And I would love any visits you made to my fotki.  I find it highly flattering when people consider my hair something to aspire to.


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## silvergirl (Jul 23, 2009)

SEMO said:


>


pretty!


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## SEMO (Jul 23, 2009)

La Colocha said:


> How beautiful semo, thank you. You qualify girl. Can i please ask when your hair started growing longer did your coils get looser or did they just grow longer and stay the same?


 



ladylibra said:


> IA, to an extent. 3c and 4a are _veeeeerrrrrrrry_ similar.
> 
> I have 3c up front and up top... I call it my canopy. The back/nape is 4a. The curls/clumps are pretty much the same size... but the 3c is slighly looser, less of a tight coil and more of an S-wave. That's the only difference I notice (other than the 3c being dryer), my hair overall responds the same to products. If I use my Denman, it all looks the same because the 3c areas will turn into spiral curls.
> 
> ...


 

I was thinking about your question La Colocha as I was reading ladylibra's answer and I think I just had an epiphany.  3c & 4a hair do look very similar but the difference is my 3c portion (around my crown) can be manipulated into waves or big curls, while the 4a part will only be curly (with medium sized curls).

And to get back to your question La Colocha: my 3c sections of hair have gotten looser as my hair has gotten longer (and more weighted down), but the 4a parts still look mostly the same.

ETA:
For example, when I was shingling my hair I noticed that the underside of my hair is mostly 4a (as shown below).





But the top/crown layer of my hair (which is the most visible when down) hangs down longer and looser.  And it can be maniuplated into waves/big curls, while the underside of my hair cannot be.





This old pic (below) highlights the wavy section 3c of my hair compared to the 4a curly section really well:


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## MilkChocolateOne (Jul 23, 2009)

Cheleigh

..................


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## La Colocha (Jul 23, 2009)

ladylibra said:


> IA, to an extent. 3c and 4a are _veeeeerrrrrrrry_ similar.
> 
> I have 3c up front and up top... I call it my canopy. The back/nape is 4a. The curls/clumps are pretty much the same size... but the 3c is slighly looser, less of a tight coil and more of an S-wave. That's the only difference I notice (other than the 3c being dryer), my hair overall responds the same to products. If I use my Denman, it all looks the same because the 3c areas will turn into spiral curls.
> 
> ...


 
Beautiful hair and thank you for coming in. You ladies are very inspiring.


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## silvergirl (Jul 23, 2009)

SEMO said:


> I was thinking about your question La Colocha as I was reading ladylibra's answer and I think I just had an epiphany.  3c & 4a hair do look very similar but the difference is my 3c portion (around my crown) can be manipulated into waves or curls, while the 4a part will only be curly.
> 
> And to get back to your question La Colocha: my 3c sections of hair have gotten looser as my hair has gotten longer (and more weighted down), but the 4a parts still look mostly the same.




wow thats so true, i think you all got it, sometimes i can get my hair to look 4a depending on my i do. but i can easily just the same get it to wave. plus 3c hangs differently as it grows longer. it usually will s wave downward with no manipulation, no product.


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## Dee Raven (Jul 23, 2009)

I'm going to go ahead and add two pics even though obviously there are people on this board with much longer hair. The first pic is a texture shot. My hair is slightly damp with nothing in it. This is the underside of my hair which is supercoily. I have seen some strands where the coil is barely wider that the tooth of a pick, super tight. In addition to being super coily, it's very fine and very frizzy. The second pic is my update claiming MBL from this June. So get excited ladies it can and will happen.


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## Neith (Jul 23, 2009)

ladylibra said:


> IA, to an extent.  3c and 4a are _veeeeerrrrrrrry_ similar.
> 
> I have 3c up front and up top... I call it my canopy.  The back/nape is 4a.  The curls/clumps are pretty much the same size... but the 3c is slighly looser, less of a tight coil and more of an S-wave.  That's the only difference I notice (other than the 3c being dryer), my hair overall responds the same to  products.  *If I use my Denman, it all looks the same because the 3c areas will turn into spiral curls.*



I've been thinking about buying another denman because my comb destroys my coils.  

When I tried in texlaxed hair, the denman ripped my hair out.  I wish I had never thrown it away, now I want to try again.  Maybe my hair is stronger and it won't get ripped out.

I agree about 3c and 4a being very similar   Firstly because so many have both in their head.  There is a big overlap too where you wonder if it's loose 4a or tight 3c.  Plus even when people have the same curl diameter, their texture can STILL be very different.  It's not all in the curl size


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## SEMO (Jul 23, 2009)

Dee Raven said:


> I'm going to go ahead and add two pics even though obviously there are people on this board with much longer hair. The first pic is a texture shot. My hair is slightly damp with nothing in it. This is the underside of my hair which is supercoily. I have seen some strands where the coil is barely wider that the tooth of a pick, super tight. In addition to being super coily, it's very fine and very frizzy. The second pic is my update claiming MBL from this June. So get excited ladies it can and will happen.


Don't be _too_ modest.  Your hair looks fabulous and you have awesome length.  You were talking like you were ear length.


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## SEMO (Jul 23, 2009)

Neith said:


> I've been thinking about buying another denman because my comb destroys my coils.
> 
> When I tried in texlaxed hair, the denman ripped my hair out. I wish I had never thrown it away, now I want to try again. Maybe my hair is stronger and it won't get ripped out.
> 
> I agree about 3c and 4a being very similar  Firstly because so many have both in their head. There is a big overlap too where you wonder if it's loose 4a or tight 3c. *Plus even when people have the same curl diameter, there texture can STILL be very different. It's not all in the curl size*


 
Very true.    I have noticed this too.


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## La Colocha (Jul 23, 2009)

Dee Raven said:


> I'm going to go ahead and add two pics even though obviously there are people on this board with much longer hair. The first pic is a texture shot. My hair is slightly damp with nothing in it. This is the underside of my hair which is supercoily. I have seen some strands where the coil is barely wider that the tooth of a pick, super tight. In addition to being super coily, it's very fine and very frizzy. The second pic is my update claiming MBL from this June. So get excited ladies it can and will happen.


 
So pretty dee, thank you.


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## Dee Raven (Jul 23, 2009)

SEMO said:


> Don't be _too_ modest. Your hair looks fabulous and you have awesome length. You were talking like you were ear length.


 
Ya, it's a curse of having Latina friends as a child.  I've always wanted hip length hair, so I've always felt like I've had short hair even at APL. MBL is like medium length in my mind.

Semo, your curls are absolutely beautiful.  I've been admiring them for years now, how time flies.  Do you do something to get them to pop?  Like I said my hair is really frizzy so there is only so much curl definition I'm going to get, but if you have any suggestions that would be great.


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## blksndrlla (Jul 23, 2009)

I really needed this thread! I was getting fearful of ever BCing b/c I had no concept of how my curls would look. (not that I am BCing anytime soon!)


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## ladylibra (Jul 23, 2009)

Dee Raven said:


> I'm going to go ahead and add two pics even though obviously there are people on this board with much longer hair. The first pic is a texture shot. My hair is slightly damp with nothing in it. This is the underside of my hair which is supercoily. I have seen some strands where the coil is barely wider that the tooth of a pick, super tight. In addition to being super coily, it's very fine and very frizzy. The second pic is my update claiming MBL from this June. So get excited ladies it can and will happen.



Girl please, your hair is on the longer side, and is gorgeous.  I am officially a new stalker. 



Neith said:


> I agree about 3c and 4a being very similar   Firstly because so many have both in their head.  There is a big overlap too where you wonder if it's loose 4a or tight 3c.  Plus even when people have the same curl diameter, their texture can STILL be very different.  It's not all in the curl size



Amen to that!!!


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## danigurl18 (Jul 23, 2009)

Beautiful hair!! You ladies have my dream hair..


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## SEMO (Jul 23, 2009)

Dee Raven said:


> Ya, it's a curse of having Latina friends as a child. I've always wanted hip length hair, so I've always felt like I've had short hair even at APL. MBL is like medium length in my mind.
> 
> Semo, your curls are absolutely beautiful. I've been admiring them for years now, how time flies. Do you do something to get them to pop? Like I said my hair is really frizzy so there is only so much curl definition I'm going to get, but if you have any suggestions that would be great.


 
Thanks so much for the compliment.  To get my curls to pop I only detangle/comb/brush my hair when it's soaking wet.  Any excess manipulation while it's drying = frizziness.  Also my curls pop and form more when I use my Denman brush (vs. only using my Jilbere shower comb).

As far as products that help I like using Texture My Way Curl Keeper, Garnier Fructis Curl & Shine shampoo for what ever reason makes my hair curlier.


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## anon123 (Jul 23, 2009)

Yassylane from NP is a long hair 4a:

http://public.fotki.com/yassylane/

Some beautiful hair in this thread.


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## Vonnieluvs08 (Jul 23, 2009)

Thank you OP and all the ladies that posted pics or links to their fotkis. 

This is exactly the type of inspiration I needed.  I've been wondering what my hair was going to look as it grew and even though its been barely a month since I BCd I can tell its definitely growing out and not down at least that is true in the nape.  My 3C part (more S shape curl) is the crown forward and the very front is where most of my fine hair lives which is the frizzy part of my hair.  I have a better understanding of my hair just from reading all the and looking at the pics.  Now if I could just get that front part to behave and stop looking so wild all the time it would be great.  I know its a losing battle and will embrace it as is.


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## ladylibra (Jul 23, 2009)

Vonnieluvs08 said:


> Now if I could just get that front part to behave and stop looking so wild all the time it would be great.  I know its a losing battle and will embrace it as is.



Shoot if you do, please let me know!  I have the same issue


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## SEMO (Jul 23, 2009)

Vonnieluvs08 said:


> Thank you OP and all the ladies that posted pics or links to their fotkis.
> 
> This is exactly the type of inspiration I needed. I've been wondering what my hair was going to look as it grew and even though its been barely a month since I BCd I can tell its definitely growing out and not down at least that is true in the nape. My *3C part (more S shape curl) is the crown forward and the very front is where most of my fine hair lives which is the frizzy part of my hair*. I have a better understanding of my hair just from reading all the and looking at the pics. Now if I could just get that front part to behave and stop looking so wild all the time it would be great. I know its a losing battle and will embrace it as is.


 
Wavy crown?  Frizzy edges?  Yep.  Your hair sounds just like mine.  I'm glad this thread helped you.  It helped me understand my hair better too, and I've been natural for years.  That's the beauty of LHCF and why I keep subscribing year after year.


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## loulou82 (Jul 23, 2009)

Beautiful hair *SEMO*!

I'm always on the hunt for 4A coily naturals. Rustic Beauty on youtube is one of the longest I've seen. She's WL.


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## nomoweavesfome (Jul 23, 2009)

Semo!!! your hair is ravishingly gorgeous!


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## delitefulmane (Jul 23, 2009)

mwedzi said:


> Yassylane from NP is a long hair 4a:
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/yassylane/
> 
> Some beautiful hair in this thread.


 
Thanx for the info! BTW I heart ur avatar pic!!


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## thaidreams (Jul 24, 2009)

Our very own Shortiedowop is 4a I think and her hair is always an inspiration!  
http://members.fotki.com/shortiedowop/

The longest 4a's that I have ever seen are Naturalremedy (http://members.fotki.com/NaturalRemedy2/about/) and  Spiral (http://members.fotki.com/Spiral/about/).  Spiral's coils hang so low they look like waves now.  She contributes her texture change to henna. 

Virtousjewel is my favorite 4a Lady (http://members.fotki.com/virtuousjewel/about/), but you have to be a fotki member to view her page.


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## Cheleigh (Jul 24, 2009)

I haven't taken any photos lately with stretched hair, but its probably about mid-back stretched. My hair has super shrinkage, so it's still near shoulder unstretched.


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## cinnamin2891 (Jul 24, 2009)

hey ya'll!  i don't really have long hair (it's above bra strap length stretched), but i just thought i'd post a pic of it to chime in .  i think i'm mostly 4a with some unknown texture in the front/middle.  it doesn't do anything i want it to.   just sticks out when it dries!  it's great to see other people's 4a textures/coils - i find it really inspiring with all the shrinkage we get to see that it does eventually start to look like it's growing. so, big thanks to everyone who posted already!


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## Dee Raven (Jul 24, 2009)

Wow, I'm so excited to do my hair now for the weekend after seeing all of these photos and fotki albums. Thanks everyone for sharing.


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## Jetblackhair (Jul 24, 2009)

Dee Raven said:


> I'm going to go ahead and add two pics even though obviously there are people on this board with much longer hair. The first pic is a texture shot. My hair is slightly damp with nothing in it. This is the underside of my hair which is supercoily. I have seen some strands where the coil is barely wider that the tooth of a pick, super tight. *In addition to being super coily, it's very fine and very frizzy.* The second pic is my update claiming MBL from this June. So get excited ladies it can and will happen.



You've just described my hair to a tee!  Your hair is beautiful!!


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## Jetblackhair (Jul 24, 2009)

Absolutely beautiful!!! I have 4a hair and 3c mostly in the nape area.  I hope to see my hair at this length soon.




SEMO said:


> Not sure if I qualify  (eveybody's idea of hair types seems different--to me 3c & 4a are the same thing), but here it goes:


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## La Colocha (Jul 24, 2009)

Thank you to all of you. This is such an inspirational thread, i had no idea i had so many cousins.


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## Neith (Jul 24, 2009)

La Colocha said:


> Thank you to all of you. This is such an inspirational thread, i had no idea i had so many cousins.



Me either!

but notice how none of our hair really looks exactly the same...

I wonder if it's like that for other textures too.  Finding a TRUE hair twin must be like a once in a lifetime occurrence.


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## fyb87 (Jul 24, 2009)

I am 4a with some 3c in the crown area.  Some may say I'm 3c.  But, I don't think so.  As my hair gets longer the curls pull down more and more.  You can see pics in my fotki, but I don't have a ton of close ups with wash-n-gos.  I have mostly twist outs.

First two are from 2008.  And last two are from this year.  May and June.  The last is with Cassia/Henna.

ETA:   Last picture is from Cassia not Henna.  First time I did Cassia then next two times Cassia/Henna (60%Cassia/40%Henna)


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## zzirvingj (Jul 24, 2009)

fyb87 said:


> I am 4a with some 3c in the crown area. Some may say I'm 3c. But, I don't think so. As my hair gets longer the curls pull down more and more. You can see pics in my fotki, but I don't have a ton of close ups with wash-n-gos. I have mostly twist outs.
> 
> First two are from 2008. And last two are from this year. May and June. The last is with Cassia/Henna.
> 
> ...


 

*GORGEOUS!!!!!*

*And to SEMO---your hair is BEAUTIFUL....so long and healthy.  I LOVE IT!*

Thanks *Thaidreams* for mentioning me/my fotki...I need to update it, though.  I'm wearing twists today (first time in a lonnnnnng time, lol).  Maybe I'll take some pics tonite and post


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## ladylibra (Jul 24, 2009)

Neith said:


> Me either!
> 
> but notice how none of our hair really looks exactly the same...
> 
> I wonder if it's like that for other textures too.  Finding a TRUE hair twin must be like a once in a lifetime occurrence.





That's why type is not the only thing that matters.  Texture, strand thickness, density... and not to mention, where the hair is on your head!  Some of us have 3c canopies and temples/4a crowns and napes and others have 4a canopies and napes/3c crowns and temples.


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## Ediese (Jul 24, 2009)

SEMO said:


> Not sure if I qualify  (eveybody's idea of hair types seems different--to me 3c & 4a are the same thing), but here it goes:


 
Beautiful! My hair looks really similiar to your 1st pic. I can't wait for it to grow as long. Hopefully, it'll look as gorgeous as yours.


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## 1QTPie (Jul 24, 2009)

Beautiful hair ladies!!

I'm 4A, my hair is medium to long. Depends on what you consider long, it goes back and forth between bra strap and midback.


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## Neith (Jul 24, 2009)

Ediese - You are officially my newest hair idol! :notworthy



I'm gonna try the denman one more time...

I was thinking a D3.  

Which Denman do you guys use?


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## zzirvingj (Jul 24, 2009)

Neith said:


> Ediese - You are officially my newest hair idol! :notworthy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

D4....I like it


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## Ediese (Jul 24, 2009)

ladylibra said:


> IA, to an extent. 3c and 4a are _veeeeerrrrrrrry_ similar.
> 
> I have 3c up front and up top... I call it my canopy. The back/nape is 4a. The curls/clumps are pretty much the same size... but the 3c is slighly looser, less of a tight coil and more of an S-wave. That's the only difference I notice (other than the 3c being dryer), my hair overall responds the same to products. If I use my Denman, it all looks the same because the 3c areas will turn into spiral curls.
> 
> ...


 
I think this is a perfect description of the similarities/differences between 3c and 4a. A lot of people are usually really confused by that. I think my hair is all 4a almost identical to your and Semo's 4a curls in the back. I have no idea what the front of my hair is though. It's not 4b, but it still doesn't curl. It's a really loose wave..very weird. It's not even heat damaged.


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## cinnamin2891 (Jul 24, 2009)

Ediese said:


> I think this is a perfect description of the similarities/differences between 3c and 4a. A lot of people are usually really confused by that. I think my hair is all 4a almost identical to your and Semo's 4a curls in the back. I have no idea what the front of my hair is though. It's not 4b, but it still doesn't curl. It's a really loose wave..very weird. It's not even heat damaged.



Same here!  It looks like you've gotten that part of your hair to behave though - what do you use to integrate the different textures when wearing your hair out/down? hehe


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## Ediese (Jul 24, 2009)

Neith said:


> Ediese - You are officially my newest hair idol! :notworthy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Aww...thanks!!  I have a long ways to go before I'm on the level of greatness as these other women, but I'm definitely going to enjoy the journey! I can't wait to get there.


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## Country gal (Jul 24, 2009)

mY NATURAL HAIR 4A COILYY BUT WITH MAJOR SHRINKAGE


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## Ediese (Jul 24, 2009)

cinnamin2891 said:


> Same here! It looks like you've gotten that part of your hair to behave though - what do you use to integrate the different textures when wearing your hair out/down? hehe


 
I bought some really small perm rods from Sallys, and I use it in the front of my hair so that it curls the same. It ends up looking the same. The denman doesn't curl it because it has no curl pattern. lol I really hate that. I've been wondering if I cut it really low if it will grow back the same. erplexed


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## robot. (Jul 24, 2009)

I OFFICIALLY LOVE THIS THREAD.

So many beautiful heads of hair in here!  I think I am a 4A (won't know until I gain some length) and I am SO EXCITED to see all these gorgeous pictures!


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## Cheleigh (Jul 24, 2009)

I use the Denman 83. I don't use the smaller D4 anymore because my hair likes paddles brushes more now that it's longer.


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## cinnamin2891 (Jul 24, 2009)

Ediese said:


> I bought some really small perm rods from Sallys, and I use it in the front of my hair so that it curls the same. It ends up looking the same. The denman doesn't curl it because it has no curl pattern. lol I really hate that. *I've been wondering if I cut it really low if it will grow back the same*. erplexed



hmmm, my gut tells me that it would.  i've chopped my hair off twice and it grew out the same both times   what i find so strange about my hair is that the different textures are almost like little cliques - they'll group together and not play nicely with the others.  i have a pic in my profile page where the different textures have literally separated themselves from one another.  makes wearing my hair out just a tad bit difficult   but i love it all the same.  i just hope my hair keeps growing!  

anyways, i was thinking about purchasing a denman - do you all find it to be as gentle as a wide tooth comb or does it serve a different purpose?


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## shakenspirit (Jul 24, 2009)

oh-em-ggeee!!
You are my idol that is so amazing!how long did it take your hair to grow this long?


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## infojunkie (Jul 24, 2009)

Well, it's settled then! I guess I'll be spending the day stalking Fotkis! 

Great heads ladies, keep the pics coming!


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## MilkChocolateOne (Jul 24, 2009)

naturaline
http://public.fotki.com/naturaline/


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## NaturallyBlonde (Jul 24, 2009)

Lotsa fantastic hair round here!


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## SEMO (Jul 24, 2009)

fyb87 said:


> I am 4a with some 3c in the crown area.  Some may say I'm 3c.  But, I don't think so.  As my hair gets longer the curls pull down more and more.  You can see pics in my fotki, but I don't have a ton of close ups with wash-n-gos.  I have mostly twist outs.
> 
> First two are from 2008.  And last two are from this year.  May and June.  The last is with Cassia/Henna.
> 
> ...


My goodness!!  Your hair is *fabulous*.  I love the texture and length.


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## vkb247 (Jul 24, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbRGSllwsiE


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## SweetSpirit86 (Jul 24, 2009)

ROBOTxcore said:


> I OFFICIALLY LOVE THIS THREAD.
> 
> So many beautiful heads of hair in here!  I think I am a 4A (won't know until I gain some length) and I am SO EXCITED to see all these gorgeous pictures!



Same!! Loving these pictures, sooo much inspiration!


----------



## ajoyfuljoy (Jul 24, 2009)

A lot of the ladies in here claiming 4a are what I would call 3c or even 3b. When I think 4a, I think kinky coils, not curls or flowey spirals. IDK, I'm confused.


----------



## MummysGirl (Jul 24, 2009)

Very inspirational ladies! Thanks for sharing, I've subscribed to this thread!


----------



## Neith (Jul 24, 2009)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> A lot of the ladies in here claiming 4a are what I would call 3c or even 3b. When I think 4a, I think kinky coils, not curls or flowey spirals. IDK, I'm confused.



True.    It gets confusing.

I'm sure that some of my coils are pretty much the same diameter of the 4a sections of some of the other ladies in this thread.

Some people have a less coarse/silkier texture and some have a more coarse/"nappy"(I say nappy with pride) texture.

Some people's hair stretches out some as it grows... making it look looser than what it is.  While other people's hair shrinks down to a little fro even when it's bsl.

Plus, hair is very pliable.  There is a definite curl pattern to work with, so the hair can be "worked" into looking a lot of different things.  Like shingling for example.  I'm sure that with the right set of products/tools/techniques I could make my hair look different. 

All that leads to a wide variety of 4a - penspring sized coils to pencil sized curls!

I'm sure the same rules apply to other textures too


----------



## ladylibra (Jul 24, 2009)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> A lot of the ladies in here claiming 4a are what I would call 3c or even 3b. When I think 4a, I think kinky coils, not curls or flowey spirals. IDK, I'm confused.



And again... it's so subjective.  3c was created after the fact, if you'll recall.  The definition of 3c overlaps the definition of 4a so much, it's hard to determine.


----------



## ajoyfuljoy (Jul 24, 2009)

ladylibra said:


> And again... it's so subjective. 3c was created after the fact, if you'll recall. The definition of 3c overlaps the definition of 4a so much, it's hard to determine.


 

I guess I see your point, but I feel that I do see a big difference still. It's all beautiful hair nonetheless...there just needs to be a better typing system b/c I consider myself to be 4a also but don't feel that too many of the heads in this thread are anywhere close to mine. 

Oh well


----------



## Valerie (Jul 25, 2009)

Very very inspirational thread, you ladies have some beautiful heads of hair! Thanks for showing.


----------



## CheLala13 (Jul 25, 2009)

I think another thing that may confuse people, is that some people have silky 4a, some people have cottony 4a (like myself). It may look like a silky 4a when wet, but poofs up when it's dry.


----------



## brandy (Jul 25, 2009)

All you ladies have beautiful hair but I think most of the hair shown here are 3c. I have a mixture of 3c at my nape, 4a, and 4b mainly at my front and mixed up with my 4a sections. So I know what 4a looks like. This hair typing somtimes doesn't make sense. 

I think we should say soft kinky afro textured hair, frizzy kinky..., dry kinky..., silky kinky..., cottony kinky..., dry kinky afro textured hair etc. Hope you get what I am trying to sayerplexed.


----------



## vainღ♥♡jane (Jul 25, 2009)

brandy said:


> All you ladies have beautiful hair but I think *most of the hair shown here are 3c.* I have a mixture of 3c at my nape, 4a, and 4b mainly at my front and mixed up with my 4a sections. So I know what 4a looks like. This hair typing somtimes doesn't make sense.
> 
> I think we should say soft kinky afro textured hair, frizzy kinky..., dry kinky..., silky kinky..., cottony kinky..., dry kinky afro textured hair etc. Hope you get what I am trying to sayerplexed.



*i agree. i'm sitting here looking confused because i thought i was 4a.*​


----------



## tocktick (Jul 25, 2009)

vainღ♥♡jane said:


> *i agree. i'm sitting here looking confused because i thought i was 4a.*​




I have to agree. I think all the women who have posted have absolutely beautiful hair. Although I've loved seeing the pics and I like this thread, it did kind of look like many women had _mainly_ type 3 hair (even if they some did have some 4a in there). There may be a "cottony" 4a and a "silky" 4a like someone mentioned though. Plus, the ladies who have posted have long hair, so their curls could have become looser because of the weight of their hair now. 

Despite that, I'm still a tad confused though because people like Naturaline, Velvet Halo, Yassylane and Dee Raven still have the kind of hair I've always associated with type 4a despite the long length. Maybe the definitions need to be updated or something.


----------



## ladylibra (Jul 25, 2009)

Well, here we are again at the great typing debate... 

I guess because Andre squished all Black people into the type 4 category, we associate that with kinky hair.  And everything else is 3c.  I started to buy that hype too, until I really paid attention and realized that the curls in the front look nothing like the coils in the back... the longer they get, the more noticeable the difference is (when I don't manipulate the front to look coilier).

I think most of the hair shown here is 3c and 4a on the same head.  I can see tight coils and looser S-waves in almost every picture...

I swear, one day I am gonna kidnap Andre Walker, tie him to a chair, and do a live broadcast where I force him to type several different black people's heads...


----------



## ajoyfuljoy (Jul 25, 2009)

ladylibra said:


> Well, here we are again at the great typing debate...
> 
> *I guess because Andre squished all Black people into the type 4 category*, we associate that with kinky hair. And everything else is 3c. I started to buy that hype too, until I really paid attention and realized that the curls in the front look nothing like the coils in the back... the longer they get, the more noticeable the difference is (when I don't manipulate the front to look coilier).
> 
> ...


 

You hit the nail on the head with the statement in bold. It's just annoying, isn't it? We need a better and more famous hair stylist (who thoroughly understands black hair) to come up with an accurate typing system so we all won't be confused. You are right though. There needs to be more than Type 4 to describe highly textured hair.

I'm 4a and my head is mostly full of coils. But it doesn't look like the heads in this thread. My hair is kinky. But when I see ladies who claim 4b, my hair doesn't look so much like that either. It's easier to manipulate, comb and has definite coil pattern.

That is so much variety! People really sell us short by just thinking that all black hair is the same. There are several thousands species of birds (I've seen numbers counted around 10,000) and one way to describe black natural hair. Just doesn't make sense!

I'm about ready to throw the typing system out the window and come up with my own personal description.


----------



## natstar (Jul 25, 2009)

brandy said:


> All you ladies have beautiful hair but I think most of the hair shown here are 3c. I have a mixture of 3c at my nape, 4a, and 4b mainly at my front and mixed up with my 4a sections. So I know what 4a looks like. This hair typing somtimes doesn't make sense.
> *
> I think we should say soft kinky afro textured hair, frizzy kinky..., dry kinky..., silky kinky..., cottony kinky..., dry kinky afro textured hair *etc. Hope you get what I am trying to sayerplexed.




I like this description a ot.  On the forum Ive seen maybe 1-2 heads that look somewhat similar to mine (in all the time ive been here).  My hair doesn't take much to straighten-wtih a blow dryer, its fine, soft and thin, and frizzes easily and is def. kinky and afro textured-not a lot of definition or coarseness


----------



## tocktick (Jul 25, 2009)

ladylibra said:


> Well, here we are again at the great typing debate...
> 
> I guess because Andre squished all Black people into the type 4 category, we associate that with kinky hair.  And everything else is 3c.  I started to buy that hype too, until I really paid attention and realized that the curls in the front look nothing like the coils in the back... the longer they get, the more noticeable the difference is (when I don't manipulate the front to look coilier).
> 
> ...



 I fully support you in your plan to kidnap Andre. I think this thead here is probably better than the Andre system. After this thread, I feel like boycotting the Andre system - just saying my hair is "coily kinky" and calling it a day. 

I definitely know we've talked about the typing issue ad nauseum here. I do feel some kind of way about bring it up in this thread because I think some people may perceive it as negative (I'm not trying to tell people what to label their hair because I know the system is quite flawed). I don't feel it should be taken that way. I just think that like others here, I originally thought this thread was going to have pics mainly like Dee Raven's because her 4a looks more like ours. I think it's challenged (or confused) our perception of what 4a is. 

I've been into this thread more than once to   over everyone's pics even though my hair is not the same. So the different texture clearly  hasn't stopped me from enjoying the pics.


----------



## doll-baby (Jul 25, 2009)

ladylibra said:


> Well, here we are again at the great typing debate...
> 
> I guess because Andre squished all Black people into the type 4 category, we associate that with kinky hair.  And everything else is 3c.  I started to buy that hype too, until I really paid attention and realized that the curls in the front look nothing like the coils in the back... the longer they get, the more noticeable the difference is (when I don't manipulate the front to look coilier).
> 
> ...



Thank you for that. I have been thinking the same thing. The hair typing by Andre ends with 4 but my hair resembles nothing close to what 4 would look like. I have no waves, curls, or coils, just course frizz (even when wet with product) that can be very dry. erplexed


----------



## La Colocha (Jul 25, 2009)

My intention in starting this thread was to see what long, coily 4a looks like. And it has become something different, If any one sees my avitar my head is full of coils, and its hard to take care of. I wanted ladies to show thier pics for inspriation. No one's hair in here looks like mine and its not going to but i do see some similarities.


----------



## tkj25 (Jul 25, 2009)

it's not quite long yet, lol, but it's getting there give me another year or so  ... but anyways, i have longish, type 4a/b hair -- it still shrinks like a mug though ... i just updated my fotki with pics:

http://public.fotki.com/tkj25/


----------



## La Colocha (Jul 25, 2009)

tkj25 said:


> it's not quite long yet, lol, but it's getting there give me another year or so  ... but anyways, i have longish, type 4a/b hair -- it still shrinks like a mug though ... i just updated my fotki with pics:
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/tkj25/


 
Hi tk, thank you for stopping by, you have some beautiful hair.And i appreciate it.


----------



## tkj25 (Jul 25, 2009)

aww thanks la colocha


----------



## Ronnieaj (Jul 25, 2009)

La Colocha said:


> My intention in starting this thread was to see what long, coily 4a looks like. And it has become something different, If any one sees my avitar my head is full of coils, and its hard to take care of. I wanted ladies to show thier pics for inspriation. No one's hair in here looks like mine and its not going to but i do see some similarities.



Aww, don't worry.  I've got a head full of coils, and I'm sure some would look at it and thinks it's 3c or even 3b.  I'd laugh at them.  There are a lot of similarities between my hair, and it can be very difficult to maintain and control.  It's not the kinkiest or frizziest, but it's darn sure not 3b/c either.  You have to know your own hair and what its possibilities are, and you can't let people's interpretations of what hair you have detract from what you know to be true. I'm still stalking fotki's from this thread.


----------



## La Colocha (Jul 25, 2009)

Ronnieaj said:


> Aww, don't worry. I've got a head full of coils, and I'm sure some would look at it and thinks it's 3c or even 3b. I'd laugh at them. There are a lot of similarities between my hair, and it can be very difficult to maintain and control. It's not the kinkiest or frizziest, but it's darn sure not 3b/c either. You have to know your own hair and what its possibilities are, and you can't let people's interpretations of what hair you have detract from what you know to be true. I'm still stalking fotki's from this thread.


 
I do understand and can see where confusion might come in because some textures do look looser than mine. But i also take into account that some ladies flat iron, use henna and their hair is way longer which can strech out and weigh the hair down. Also the thickness and cottony or fine textures can make a difference . I don't use heat or anything from the above and also my hair is thin, we can all be the same hair type and our hair looks different, and its my fault also, maybe i should not have said 4a i probably should have just said long coily hair. But it is what it is. Im also stalking fotki's and reading.


----------



## Ronnieaj (Jul 25, 2009)

La Colocha said:


> I do understand and can see where confusion might come in because some textures do look looser than mine. But i also take into account that some ladies flat iron, use henna and their hair is way longer which can strech out and weigh the hair down. Also the thickness and cottony or fine textures can make a difference . I don't use heat or anything from the above and also my hair is thin, we can all be the same hair type and our hair looks different, and its my fault also, maybe i should not have said 4a i probably should have just said long coily hair. But it is what it is. Im also stalking fotki's and reading.



Exactly!  You've got thin hair, my hair is anything but.  And also, most of these pics are styled, and product definitely makes a difference in how the hair looks.  I'm really glad you started this thread though; it's been really great to see similar hair and know that there is hope for reaching my own hair goals.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jul 25, 2009)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> A lot of the ladies in here claiming 4a are what I would call 3c or even 3b. When I think 4a, I think kinky coils, not curls or flowey spirals. IDK, I'm confused.



You ain't the only one. I see more 3c too. I don't see the 4a. I was hoping to see more 4a chicks.


----------



## Ganjababy (Jul 25, 2009)

msa said:


> Your hair looks like a kinky version of hers, if that makes sense.
> 
> Anyway, I wonder who it was that posted that. Now I'm going to have to search for it and I know it was in a really random thread. I knew I should have bookmarked it.


 
Maybe justkiya?


----------



## Ganjababy (Jul 25, 2009)

tocktick said:


> I fully support you in your plan to kidnap Andre. I think this thead here is probably better than the Andre system. After this thread, I feel like boycotting the Andre system - just saying my hair is "coily kinky" and calling it a day.
> 
> I definitely know we've talked about the typing issue ad nauseum here. I do feel some kind of way about bring it up in this thread because I think some people may perceive it as negative (I'm not trying to tell people what to label their hair because I know the system is quite flawed). I don't feel it should be taken that way. I just think that like others here, I originally thought this thread was going to have pics mainly like Dee Raven's because her 4a looks more like ours. I think it's challenged (or confused) our perception of what 4a is.
> 
> I've been into this thread more than once to   over everyone's pics even though my hair is not the same. So the different texture clearly hasn't stopped me from enjoying the pics.


 
Now this is going from one extreme to the other- from not enough types in Andre's to too many in this one. All this is just plain confusing to me These are the reasons I do not even bother to type my hair


----------



## ajoyfuljoy (Jul 25, 2009)

tkj25 said:


> aww thanks la colocha


 

Your fotki is a-mazing and has to be one of the most extensive and thorough that I've ever seen. I just friended you  I must say also that you must be my hair brother or something. Another inspiration to transition


----------



## tkj25 (Jul 25, 2009)

thanks ajoyful! i've been at it long enough. it's a definite labor of love, but i'll be glad when i finally reach my hair goals. i'm always happy to find another hair sis


----------



## CurlyMoo (Jul 25, 2009)

Neith said:


> Ediese - You are officially my newest hair idol! :notworthy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I use a D5, it's the same as a D4 but with a heavy handle. I chose the heavy handle to slow down my movements.


----------



## vainღ♥♡jane (Jul 25, 2009)

La Colocha said:


> My intention in starting this thread was to see what long, coily 4a looks like. And it has become something different, If any one sees my avitar my head is full of coils, and its hard to take care of. I wanted ladies to show thier pics for inspriation. No one's hair in here looks like mine and its not going to but i do see some similarities.



*mine looks like yours but it was short. my fotki is in my profile.*​


----------



## MummysGirl (Jul 25, 2009)

I love your hair! Your coils remind me of mine in a way (still transitioning).... I've added you as a fotki friend, I'd love it if my hair looks like yours when I BC. I especially love the pics with conditioner defining your coils 



tkj25 said:


> it's not quite long yet, lol, but it's getting there give me another year or so  ... but anyways, i have longish, type 4a/b hair -- it still shrinks like a mug though ... i just updated my fotki with pics:
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/tkj25/


----------



## Shay72 (Jul 25, 2009)

tkj25 said:


> thanks ajoyful! i've been at it long enough. it's a definite labor of love, but i'll be glad when i finally reach my hair goals. i'm always happy to find another hair sis


 
My texlaxed wet hair looks like your natural wet hair.  I wonder how that would translate if I went natural? Love your hair.


----------



## Neith (Jul 25, 2009)

tkj25 said:


> it's not quite long yet, lol, but it's getting there ... but anyways, i have longish, type 4a/b hair -- it still shrinks like a mug though ... i just updated my fotki with pics:
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/tkj25/



Your hair looks GREAT! 


My hair looks a lot like your hair, but mine doesn't do those stretched out cute wavies when it's wet and coated with conditioner.  Mine coils and shrinks and makes tiny coils.

Maybe when I get some length.  Hope so!

My shrinkage is extreme just like yours.  Now you have me wishing I could do twists right now 


I wish I could figure out how to define my coils too!

This is my best attempt:









but the curl isn't stretched or lengthened at all.

Feel free to share your tips tkj25 oke:


----------



## Ronnieaj (Jul 25, 2009)

Neith,

Have you tried Teri's method at www.tightlycurly.com?  I have a section of hair that I could NEVER get defined, and I used her method with great results.  It doesn't help the shrinkage at all , but it does help with the definition.  I did it on Thursday before court on Friday, and my utterly non-observant secretary kept commenting on how curly my hair was, and how there was no frizzing or anything.  The other thing I do differently is add gel to my hair when smoothing it, because my hair needs more hold than conditioner alone.  Def look into it.


----------



## La Colocha (Jul 25, 2009)

vainღ♥♡jane said:


> *mine looks like yours but it was short. my fotki is in my profile.*​


 
You and your hair are beautiful vj, Im glad to find another hair sister.


----------



## Neith (Jul 25, 2009)

Ronnieaj said:


> Neith,
> 
> Have you tried Teri's method at www.tightlycurly.com?  I have a section of hair that I could NEVER get defined, and I used her method with great results.  It doesn't help the shrinkage at all , but it does help with the definition.  I did it on Thursday before court on Friday, and my utterly non-observant secretary kept commenting on how curly my hair was, and how there was no frizzing or anything.  The other thing I do differently is add gel to my hair when smoothing it, because my hair needs more hold than conditioner alone.  Def look into it.



I haven't tried that method yet.  I keep thinking... I would have to be there ALL DAY smoothing them out one by one.  

Maybe one day I'll try when I'm bored!


----------



## loulou82 (Jul 25, 2009)

I suppose I should actually post a link to Rustic Beauty's YT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flp9sDmJ7_4

It's nice to see 4A coilies. Dee Raven is definitely what I imagine my hair looking like in a few years.


----------



## FindingMe (Jul 25, 2009)

*HOW IN THE FRICKETY ***** DID I MISS THIS THREAD WITH ALL THIS GORGEOUS HAIR?!?!*

subscribing for inspiration...


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Jul 25, 2009)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I guess I see your point, but I feel that I do see a big difference still. It's all beautiful hair nonetheless...there just needs to be a better typing system b/c I consider myself to be 4a also but don't feel that too many of the heads in this thread are anywhere close to mine.
> 
> Oh well


 
I agree with you 100%.  My 4a hair looks nothing like what i've seen in this thread.  Beautiful heads of hair - absolutely   4a? - I don't think they are   Either that or i'm not a 4a.  Hmmmmmmm


----------



## Je Ne Sais Quoi (Jul 25, 2009)

tkj25 said:


> thanks ajoyful! i've been at it long enough. it's a definite labor of love, but i'll be glad when i finally reach my hair goals. i'm always happy to find another hair sis


 

I am soooooooo glad you mention that you are a guy in your sig.  I just peeped your fotki (gorgeous hair!!!) and saw the 'stache and was like "that poor thing!!"

Whew!!!!!


----------



## beana (Jul 25, 2009)

Je Ne Sais Quoi said:


> I agree with you 100%. My 4a hair looks nothing like what i've seen in this thread. Beautiful heads of hair - absolutely  4a? - I don't think they are  *Either that or i'm not a 4a.* Hmmmmmmm


 

Who are you telling?!??!!?? 

While i can appreciate the difference between, silky, cottony, more wave-like textures... and also take into account fine, medium, and coarse... most of the posts ive seen in this thread just aren't what id consider 4a. But thats just me... 

Or maybe my hair is 4b/c.  And it very well could be, it just means i've been confused for a while. tkj25 has what i call 4a/b hair (and its BEAUTIFUL too)


----------



## La Colocha (Jul 26, 2009)

Can some one please post some pictures of what's supposed to be 4a hair. Hell now yall got me confused. I would really like to see what 4a hair is supposed to look like.


----------



## Neith (Jul 26, 2009)

La Colocha said:


> Can some one please post some pictures of what's supposed to be 4a hair. Hell now yall got me confused. I would really like to see what 4a hair is supposed to look like.



I think I'm a good example of 4a.  Close to 100% or 100% 4a

I dunno... anyone can correct me if I'm wrong erplexed 

I think others in this thread have some 3c thrown in.  Or silkier hair.  but I don't think there is anyone claiming 4a that doesn't have ANY in their head.


----------



## La Colocha (Jul 26, 2009)

Neith said:


> I think I'm a good example of 4a. Close to 100% or 100% 4a
> 
> I dunno... anyone can correct me if I'm wrong erplexed
> 
> I think others in this thread have some 3c thrown in. Or silkier hair. but I don't think there is anyone claiming 4a that doesn't have ANY in their head.


 
Ok thank you neith, my hair favors yours but your hair is thicker than mine and fuller. I don't know how i even came to type my hair, i never asked anyone. I just went by peoples pictures that hair looked like mine.


----------



## Cheleigh (Jul 26, 2009)

I've had almost no one argue that I'm not a 4a...





My curl pattern, in April after being sort of shingled.





My hair in March, unstretched, and undefined.





The back in March, unstretched, undefined.





A puff from 2007

Now, my coils are clearly 4a, and that's the only barometer used when determining "hair type."  I might be considered a "silkier" 4a than some, but as you can see, I could also be considered a "spongier" or "coarser" 4a by others, depending on how my hair looks at a given time. My strands are fine and my hair overall is thin, so I'm not going to look like those thicker stranded 4as.

I do think that many "4as" could appear to be "3cs" or "4bs" as well, depending on hair style.


----------



## beana (Jul 26, 2009)

^^ Cheleigh's hair is what i consider a well moisturized, silkier 4a. 

 Beautiful hair btw!


----------



## La Colocha (Jul 26, 2009)

Cheleigh said:


> I've had almost no one argue that I'm not a 4a...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Your hair is so pretty cheleigh. Thank you


----------



## Netta1 (Jul 26, 2009)

My hair is very coily/nappy/frizzy/wavy....my coils are about the size of a pen spring..








old pic

If I comb out my hair intently my coils will stretch and my hair will fro up like in my signature


My hair clumps up a lot when I wear a wash and go (which is fine). I know how to rock a large fro but I don't know what products define or bring out (the structure) of my natural coils?


----------



## MilkChocolateOne (Jul 26, 2009)

check poohbear's fotki.  she has 4a hair too.


----------



## cinnamin2891 (Jul 26, 2009)

uggggh, i'm so upset because i had written this really long post and i lost it  but anyways, i wanted to post some more pics because after reading the rest of the posts, i kind of feel the need to "defend" my hair type (which is one of the reasons i really don't like like this system).  i also realized that maybe the picture i attached makes it look like my hair either isn't mostly 4a or 4a at all, since it's from the front where the curl is looser or nonexistent.  below i'm adding a few from waaay back after my first BC when i left my hair unmanipulated more often (can we say tangles???).  i've also posted some pics of coils and twists b/c i stumbled upon them and wanted to share  

basically, i think the "typing" system forces us to fit our square pegged hair into round hole categories.  our hair is so diverse and varied, it defies categorization.  i just hope these categories don't create divisions. i'm really grateful to have found a place with women of color who share my hair woes/experiences, and who have such a wealth of knowledge.  i've learned so much from all of you ladies - whether we share certain hair characteristics or not.  

[fwiw i didn't edit my face out because i'm tired and i'm clothed in these pics lol.   sorry in advance for the super awkward angles/close-ups.]


----------



## Neith (Jul 26, 2009)

cinnamin2891 said:


> uggggh, i'm so upset because i had written this really long post and i lost it  but anyways, i wanted to post some more pics because after reading the rest of the posts,* i kind of feel the need to "defend" my hair type* (which is one of the reasons i really don't like like this system).  i also realized that maybe the picture i attached makes it look like my hair either isn't mostly 4a or 4a at all, since it's from the front where the curl is looser or nonexistent.  below i'm adding a few from waaay back after my first BC when i left my hair unmanipulated more often (can we say tangles???).  i've also posted some pics of coils and twists b/c i stumbled upon them and wanted to share
> 
> basically, i think the "typing" system forces us to fit our square pegged hair into round hole categories.  our hair is so diverse and varied, it defies categorization.  i just hope these categories don't create divisions. i'm really grateful to have found a place with women of color who share my hair woes/experiences, and who have such a wealth of knowledge.  i've learned so much from all of you ladies - whether we share certain hair characteristics or not.
> 
> [fwiw i didn't edit my face out because i'm tired and i'm clothed in these pics lol.   sorry in advance for the super awkward angles/close-ups.]



 at the bolded.  I know where you are coming from. 

I think you have beautiful 4a hair! 

From reading this thread I guess that people see 4a as being very coarse and for lack of a better word, very "nappy" all the time.  

but this system only defines coil size.  Not how coarse or silky someone's hair is.  

Just like you have kinky 3b hair vs. "European" 3b hair.  The curl diameter is the same.  The actual look and feel of the hair is different.


----------



## honeisos (Jul 26, 2009)

Im drooling here !  so many beautiful heads of hair !  this is why im no fan of mr andre's hair type system . it really is just a guideline . my sister jennyfur and i are both 3c's but she is on one end of it closer to 2  im on the other closer to 4 . but we both have extremly curly hair and use the same products .  there are so many subdivisions there really needs to be a revamp of that chart .


----------



## vkb247 (Jul 26, 2009)

Neith said:


> at the bolded. I know where you are coming from.
> 
> I think you have beautiful 4a hair!
> 
> ...


 
This is all that Andre's system describes which is why I think people find it so confusing because other things like strand diameter (thickness) and density often have a greater effect on the look of the hair IMO. Plus isn't 4a classified as the size of a coffee stirrer/straw up to the size of pencil? There is a lot of room for different looks in between those two very different sizes!


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## Whimsy (Jul 26, 2009)

I LOVE This thread. Great photos and hair typing info. It's so confusing to me.  I think I"m 4a under and 3c on my "canopy" (had to steal that term) but my hair is coarse and fine at the same time.  Those typing systems leave a lot to be desired.
 SEMO I LOVE YOUR HAIR.


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## Neith (Jul 26, 2009)

vkb247 said:


> This is all that Andre's system describes which is why I think people find it so confusing because other things like strand diameter (thickness) and density often have a greater effect on the look of the hair IMO. *Plus isn't 4a classified as the size of a coffee stirrer/straw up to the size of pencil?* There is a lot of room for different looks in between those two very different sizes!



Yep to the bolded.  It's not ONLY coffee stirrer sized coils, 4a can be looser than that.  

Even I have some larger than coffee stirrer coils.


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## vainღ♥♡jane (Jul 26, 2009)

Neith said:


> at the bolded.  I know where you are coming from.
> 
> I think you have beautiful 4a hair!
> 
> ...



*i don't. i just thought it was really small coils like what you and me have.*​


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## ajoyfuljoy (Jul 26, 2009)

Well then this thread is definitely teaching me a lot. I didn't know so many women considered themselves 4a. I'm about done with the typing system after this thread


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## Netta1 (Jul 26, 2009)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I didn't know so many women considered themselves 4a. I'm about done with the typing system after this thread




I agree. Sometimes its just too much confusion then its worth... lol, its a lot easier to describe your hairs texture then to categorize it into a "system" IMO. Natural hair is really beautiful and diverse in all its many textures. I think some people use this system as a means to attempt to describe their texture and some, well I don't know...anyhow

..there is another system called LOIS.


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## kooskoos (Jul 26, 2009)

Awwww I wish I was "4a" now!!! You all have some wonderful hair!!!


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