# Gaza Under Attack



## Rastafarai (May 12, 2021)

Another civil war is brewing and our U.S. tax dollars are supporting the ethnic cleansing of many innocent women and children. This has to stop.



ETA: Moderators - please kindly move thread to the Breaking News section.


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## Rastafarai (May 12, 2021)




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## Rastafarai (May 12, 2021)




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## vevster (May 12, 2021)

Andrew Yang may have forfeited the mayoral race based on his horrible response to this issue.


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## Rastafarai (May 12, 2021)

vevster said:


> Andrew Yang may have forfeited the mayoral race based on his horrible response to this issue.



I understand certain communities are lining the pockets of his team, hence his statements. Some activists confronted him about it and he couldn't provide an explanation for his statement.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (May 12, 2021)

vevster said:


> Andrew Yang may have forfeited the mayoral race based on his horrible response to this issue.


Yeah he quickly deleted an IG post about it. They went in on him yesterday.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 12, 2021)

Gaza isn't under attack.  Hamas is under attack.  This is what Hamas does when attacked:





And then they tell everybody who will listen  "the Jews killed our kids". 

Unlike members of neighboring continents I'm not going to say outsiders can't or shouldn't have an opinion on the subject.  I will just remind people that even with the enormity of the claims of racism aimed at Israel, there's a reason that black people run to that little sliver of land as opposed to the rest of the middle east including Palestinian territories and it's called slavery and/ or human trafficking that still happens today so it might be helpful to know who you putting a cape on for.


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## Rastafarai (May 12, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Gaza isn't under attack.  Hamas is under attack.  This is what Hamas does when attacked:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



'The media will have you hating those who are oppressed and loving those doing the oppressing.' - _Malcolm X_

What I find most interesting is that you blame Hamas for  inciting violence when it is the same Israeli forces and Zionists who have time and again instigated, harassed and slaughtered innocent Palestinians for the simple fact that they want to exterminate Palestinians from land that belongs to Palestine.

This entire ordeal was triggered because those same Israeli forces decided to storm a mosque, and when the Palestinians and Hamas retaliated, suddenly, it is their fault.

The only reason Israel remains standing is because of the United States. But with each cause, there will be an effect. This too shall end.


#FreePalestine.


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## Rastafarai (May 12, 2021)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Yeah he quickly deleted an IG post about it. They went in on him yesterday.



Oh wow, I didn't even know he took down his post. NYC folks are MAD. I'm not sure how drastic an effect this may have on his chances of winning the mayoral election. I, for one, no longer support his race.


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## Rastafarai (May 12, 2021)

For those who may have forgotten history:


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## Rastafarai (May 12, 2021)

Trevor Noah's take, especially seeing that most of the Western media have chosen to ignore the ongoing extermination of Palestinians:


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## awhyley (May 12, 2021)

Thanks for posting, because I was never too clear on what exactly was the cause of the conflict.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 12, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> #FreePalestine.


There is no Palestine to free the same way there is no whatever America was called before it was America.



Rastafarai said:


> 'The media will have you hating those who are oppressed and loving those doing the oppressing.' - _Malcolm X_
> 
> What I find most interesting is that you blame Hamas for  inciting violence when it is the same Israeli forces and Zionists who have time and again instigated, harassed and slaughtered innocent Palestinians for the simple fact that they want to exterminate Palestinians from land that belongs to Palestine.
> 
> ...


I blame Hamas and all the other Palestinian resistance groups that have popped up over the last 70+ years for letting Egypt and the middle east pimp them like the pawns they are.  If Israel wanted to exterminate the Palestinians it would have been done already with plausible deniability.

No, the entire ordeal wasn't triggered by one thing that happened last week, there is nonstop action and reaction. When I _lived_ in Tel Aviv during so called "peaceful" times rockets from Gaza flew over the city and were intercepted in the sky by the Israeli military multiple times a week.   I'm telling you what I saw, not what I heard off somebody's media. The only time Gaza can pull off attacks like what is currently going on is a fresh infusion of cash funding from the surrounding Arab countries who sold them out in the first place.  And let's be clear,  in the unlikely event that Israel ever fell, it would not go back to  the Palestinians.


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## ScorpioBeauty09 (May 12, 2021)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Yeah he quickly deleted an IG post about it. They went in on him yesterday.


He was supposed to attend an event celebrating Eid and they told him not to come. I never cared much for him but I'm done. 

I'm taking notes on all the reps in the House who recently signed a letter insisting aid to Israel be unconditional. Thankfully my rep is not among them but the silence of the US congress to the Palestinians' suffering is deplorable.


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> There is no Palestine to free the same way there is no whatever America was called before it was America.
> 
> 
> I blame Hamas and all the other Palestinian resistance groups that have popped up over the last 70+ years for letting Egypt and the middle east pimp them like the pawns they are.  If Israel wanted to exterminate the Palestinians it would have been done already with plausible deniability.
> ...



So blame Hamas because they are trying to defend what is their land? That's like blaming a woman with a gun to her head for punching her rapist for trying to defend herself.

Hamas was founded out of sheer desperation to try and save what is being stolen from them. You could have lived there - it does NOT change the fact that Israel has and continues to exterminate Palestinians with the establishment of their "country" on the land of another.

As for your OPINION on Israel ever returning to the Palestinians, please continue pontificating. Man will never be greater than God and his plan, and best believe Israel will reap what it has sown against all Palestinians.

Everyone should research the Balfour Declaration. Israel is not a country because it has no sovereignty and the territory they have established themselves with the help of the UK is on disputed land.


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)

A story worth sharing from someone who did more than "_live _in Tel Aviv" but whose family experienced what occurred firsthand against Palestine and its people. This is the type of TRUTH that must be shared:

These are my grandparents, Joseph, Charlotte, George, Nuha. All born in Palestine between 1922 and 1935. Their parents and the generations before them were also born in Palestine. In 1948, they along with 700,000 other Christian and Muslim Palestinians were expelled by Zionist militias (most were recent arrivals from Europe) in a deliberate act of ethnic cleansing (Recommend Read: *The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe*). Those that stayed behind suffered a different fate; being second class citizens in their own country.

My grandparents and none of the 700,000 Palestinians or their descendants were ever allowed to return. They had their homes, land, and country stolen from them. They were also never compensated. My maternal grandfather, George, called it 'The biggest robbery in human history'.

Since 1948, Israel has continued to ethnically cleanse Palestine through apartheid policies, home confiscation, settlement expansion, discriminatory laws that favor Jews over Arabs, and outright brutality… And While Israel denies Palestinians living within its border basic human rights and denies the Palestinian diaspora that they expelled from ever returning, it allows and encourages Jews from anywhere in the world, even if they have no ties to the land, to go and live the land of my grandparents.

A state that favors one race/religion over another is a racist state. Israel according to the latest report from Human Rights Watch, and countless previous human rights reports is an apartheid state.

Stop the ethnic cleansing, stop the oppression and destruction of Gaza and stop the theft of more Palestinian homes.







SOURCE


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)

Isn't it amazing the same people who claim oppression and experienced their own extermination with the Holocaust are the same people committing the extermination of another?

#FreePalestine


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)

ScorpioBeauty09 said:


> He was supposed to attend an event celebrating Eid and they told him not to come. I never cared much for him but I'm done.
> 
> I'm taking notes on all the reps in the House who recently signed a letter insisting aid to Israel be unconditional. Thankfully my rep is not among them but the silence of the US congress to the Palestinians' suffering is deplorable.



I attended Eid celebrations and this entire attack dampened my and many spirits. Palestinians cannot even congregate in peace in their own mosques and homes without Israelis attacking them. Its truly disgusting our tax dollars are supporting this mess while the world just watches and does nothing. Same with the Rohingya people in Myanmar.


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)




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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)




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## Ivonnovi (May 14, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> For those who may have forgotten history:
> View attachment 472019


*THIS!!!!! *   No one would be comfortable with their neighbor PERMANANTLEY encroaching upon thier "space".     Hell,* folks are known to fight for* the little space allocated to them refered to as *"Airplane Seats" and they don't even own that space!* 

The land grab has got to STOP.


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)

Ivonnovi said:


> *THIS!!!!! *   No one would be comfortable with their neighbor PERMANANTLEY encroaching upon thier "space".     Hell,* folks are known to fight for* the little space allocated to them refered to as *"Airplane Seats" and they don't even own that space!*
> 
> The land grab has got to STOP.



Especially if a court order was issued to say that your neighbor is only to stay at your home temporarily, but because the town council decided to side with the neighbor, suddenly, your home is now their home and you only get to live in the bathroom.

The fact that Black women on this forum that experienced and understand racism and oppression in this country is defending this mess is simply astounding.


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## ScorpioBeauty09 (May 14, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> I attended Eid celebrations and this entire attack dampened my and many spirits. Palestinians cannot even congregate in peace in their own mosques and homes without Israelis attacking them. Its truly disgusting our tax dollars are supporting this mess while the world just watches and does nothing. Same with the Rohingya people in Myanmar.


My mom doesn’t do Ramadan anymore because of her diabetes but this has been weighing on her mind. Mine too. My heart breaks for people who’ve lost their homes and their children. The Rohingya and the Uighrs, it’s heartbreaking and infuriating.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 14, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> As for your OPINION on Israel ever returning to the Palestinians, please continue pontificating.


Oh I will.

But right now I feel like pontificating about something else.

I'm a black woman, specifically AA.  I am also a Jew.  I grew up oppressed and financially exploited by the largest middle eastern population in the United States.    I have never once in my black Jewish  life caped for Jews an IOTA as much as the average black person I have encountered outside of Detroit capes for Palestinians.  Seems like the only black folks who feel such affinity with Palestinians as some kind of light skinned cousins are the ones who haven't had to live with them.    The tone of black people directed toward other black people over non black people is fascinating.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jews as a collective are going to be fine.  Palestinians are  regardless of whatever way the conflict goes that's how they ended up occupied by the Ottoman Empire, occupied by Egypt, occupied by Britain and France and rebranded as Israel in the first place.  Ya'll light skinned cousins haven't been able to hold or defend that land for over 1000 years and nothing is going to change one way or the other.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 14, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> A story worth sharing from someone who did more than "_live _in Tel Aviv" but whose family experienced what occurred firsthand against Palestine and its people. This is the type of TRUTH that must be shared:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What about these Palestinians who couldn't live in your family's neighborhood?  Does their truth not count? I'm trying to see something.  Since I managed to interact with people darker than a paper bag when I was merely living in Tel Aviv. 
THE AFRICANS OF JERUSALEM: ALIENATION AND COUNTER-ALIENATION​




Opening of the community centre; Yasser Qous in the middle, dressed in turquoise, Jerusalem 1996. | ©Privat
I was born in the mid-seventies in Jerusalem to a family of seven; I was the eighth. My father, an African, came from the city of Masina in Chad and my mother was a Palestinian "white" mother from Jericho in the Jordan Valley. I grew up as the mulatto ("muwallad") kid in the African neighbourhood. This is how the first generation of African immigrants to Jerusalem were known. We are the children born of mixed African-Palestinian marriages.
_By Yasser Qous_


> Evil must be confronted by the power of good and love. When love destroys evil, it kills it forever. Brute force can only bury evil temporarily, however, because evil is a stubborn seed. As soon as it is buried, it grows again in secret, and when it reappears, it is even more ugly.
> Tierno Bokar, "the Fulani sage of Bandiagara", giving advice to his student Amadou Hampate Ba










A guardian at Augusta Victoria Hospital 1928, Palestine | ©Library of CongressAfrican Jerusalemites, or the "Takarneh", as the Palestinian historian Aref al-Aref (1892-1973) described them in his comprehensive book on the history of Jerusalem (1961), are "one of Jerusalemʹs major families. They came there from Darfur and its environs. It is said that they are originally from Tikrit and that they belong to the Zawba branch of the Shammar tribe. The government used to employ them in the police force and they were entrusted with guarding the schools, which were held in the houses, homes and cloisters around the Haram al-Sharif. They are black, tall, and well-built."

In a pamphlet entitled "Muslim Africans in Jerusalem", which was published by the Islamic Endowments Department in Jerusalem (1984), the Palestinian researcher of African roots, Husni Shaheen, noted that they are Muslims from a number of African countries, including Nigeria, Chad, French Sudan (which is now Mali) and Senegal. They are also descended from various African Arab tribes, including the Hausa, Salamat, Barqou, Zaghawa, Borno, Kanembu and Bulala.

In this essay, I will endeavour to illuminate and make sense of the status of black Africans. I will look at the impact of skin colour, what that means in terms of profession and place of abode, and how this is all related to alienation. I will also look at the measures African Jerusalemites adopt to counter this estrangement.






The community centre, Jerusalem 2013. | ©PrivatLet us look first at the meaning of the word "black" in al-Maʹany dictionary. It refers, on the one hand, to skin colour and, on the other, to the place from which "black Africans" come. The second definition clashes to some extent with that advanced by Aref al-Aref, which contends that they are from "Darfur and the surrounding area" i.e. from a specific geographical area with particular cultural and religious characteristics. This leads us into a discussion about the impact and relationship of that geographical-cultural classification with the distinction which has developed in Palestinian eyes between the free black African and the kidnapped "slave". We will also look at the impact and scale of this vis a vis the "Takruri" (singular form of Takarneh) African, based on the distinction between cultural status and that of the African "other".

MEASURES OF SOCIAL STATUS FOR BLACK AFRICANS​Some may not even know that there are black Africans living in communities in various cities and refugee camps inside Palestine. Many researchers and historians e.g. Huda Lutfi, Aref al-Aref and Ali Qleibo, believe that the African connection with Palestine dates back to the Mamluk and Ottoman periods.






The Entrance of the Prison with Turkish soldiers, photo between 1889 - 1914, Palestine | ©Library of CongressIn Lutfiʹs study of the records and documents of the Haram al-Sharif in Jerusalem during the Mamluk period, she distinguishes between the status of the black "Takruri" African within the Islamic Ummah and the non-Muslim black African who was, to all intents and purposes, a "slave". Meanwhile, Aref al-Aref and Ali Qleibo both agree that the "Takruri" Africans were used as guards and to serve in the holy places in Jerusalem and Mecca during the Mamluk and Ottoman eras. And letʹs stop here at the notion of "service", since it is misleading. Qlaqshandi notes that it is a title which was bestowed by the Sultan. In "Lisan al-ʹArab", and subject to the specific role and task involved, it refers to "anyone who serves someone else, be they male or female, a young male or female slave." This begs the question: to what extent did this distinction among black Africans re-shape the cultural identity of the "Takruri" African?

THE PROBLEMATIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SKIN COLOUR, PROFESSION AND PLACE OF ABODE​





Yasser Qous | ©PrivatIn an attempt to connect skin colour with the African heritage and the impact of this on the cultural identity of African Jerusalemites, I recall from memory the words that my uncle Hajj Jibril Ould Shine, rest his soul, used to recite to me, "Weʹre not slaves, weʹre free." My uncleʹs words were a barometer to measure the extent to which the concept of cultural separation had come into being, thus creating an identity that was estranged from its African forebear. It emphasised the genealogical links with the Arabian Peninsula. "Weʹre originally from Jeddah," as the Mukhtar Mohammed Jiddah suggests in an interview with him in 1997.

If we look at the connection between profession, skin colour and physical traits, "being black, tall and well-built," as al-Aref puts it in his book, was the reason why African Jerusalemites were chosen for security jobs. Herein is another indicator that allows us to gauge the relationship and role of these three key elements in determining the social status of black Africans. They adhere closely to the stereotype i.e. work that requires physical effort, not mental.

The last link is the place of abode. In the case of Jerusalem, most Africans live in the African Quarter. It consists of two historical buildings, "Ribat al-Mansouri" and "Ribat al-Basiri", both of which were built during the Mamluk era in the 12th century near the Inspectorʹs Gate, which leads to the Haram al-Sharif. At the end of the Ottoman era, specifically between 1898 and 1914, the two ribats were used as prisons by the Ottoman authorities. Ribat al-Basiri was reserved for Arab prisoners on death row and was known as the "jail of blood", whilst Ribat al-Mansouri, the "ribat jail", was reserved for Arab prisoners given custodial sentences. After 1929, both ribats were used as homes for the African Jerusalemites. Since then, some local people began to call them "the slavesʹ prison", a name linked both to the buildingsʹ historical function and to skin colour, since the blacks were the slaves.

Some Jerusalemites try to soften the racist overtones of this labelling, with an over-idealistic view of Palestinian society: "weʹre all one, weʹre all brothers and weʹre all equals". Their use of this designation merely reflects their ignorance, and it doesnʹt imply any cultural or social racism towards black Africans. Indeed, in their scenario, racism does not exist in Palestinian society as we are all "Godʹs slaves" in a religious sense.





Yasser Qous (left) and Faisal al-Husseini, former PLO representative in Jerusalem, at the opening of the community centre, Jerusalem 1996. | ©PrivatI wonder if we are really like that and whether itʹs true. After all, how can a utopian view explain or justify the continued use of a term such as "the slaves of Duyuk" when talking about the black-skinned population in northern Jericho near Ein al-Duyuk? Similarly, how can we still use the "slavesʹ quarter" as a label for those neighbourhoods inhabited mostly by black people in certain cities, towns and refugee camps inside the Green Line and in the West Bank?

In conclusion, the problems of differing definitions and a stereotype based on skin colour, profession and place of abode, are the cornerstones for understanding the status of black Africans in Palestinian society. On the one hand, the term ʹblack Africanʹ has been subject to a process of appropriation and cultural exchange (as in the case of the African Takruri). On the other hand, it referred to a specific time in history (to the spread of Islam in Africa), as if al-Aref is saying that African people had no culture until the Islamisation and Arabisation of African society. Notwithstanding this, I have tried in the above examples to show how the barriers between Jerusalemites and the African Takruri declined because they were all part of the Muslim community. At the same time, discrimination is based on ethnic parameters: whether they are called Takruri or otherwise, the African remains the "black slave" in the Arab cultural psyche.
AUTHOR​Yasser Qous is a master’s student at the Department of History and Civilization of the École des Hautes Études en Sciences Sociales, Paris. His research interests revolve around the social history of Palestine, with a focus on the historical development of the Afro-Palestinian community in Jerusalem.


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> What about these Palestinians who couldn't live in your family's neighborhood?  Does their truth not count? I'm trying to see something.  Since I managed to interact with people darker than a paper bag when I was merely living in Tel Aviv.
> THE AFRICANS OF JERUSALEM: ALIENATION AND COUNTER-ALIENATION​
> 
> 
> ...



Certainly a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

You cannot under any circumstances try and speak about the racism experienced by Black Africans at the behest of Palestinians without also discussing the plight and ostracism of Ethiopian Jews by your beloved Israel.

Seeing that you wish to drop long articles in this thread, I implore you to also read and educate yourself on the discrimination experienced by Black Jews seeing that you conveniently chose to skirt around it to only point out the experiences of Africans in Palestine:



"Growing up in Israel, Shay Sium became accustomed to being called a “n*gger”.

Sium, 32, has lived in Israel most of his life, but says he and other Ethiopian Jews are treated differently from other Israelis: factories do not want to employ them; landlords refuse them; and certain schools turn away their children.

"The word discrimination doesn’t describe what we experience. There is another word for it: racism. It is a shame that we still have to use this word today,” he told IRIN.

An estimated 125,000 Ethiopian Jews live in Israel, but while they are supposed to be full citizens with equal rights, their community has continued to face widespread discrimination and socio-economic difficulties, according to its leaders."





__





						The tribulations of being an Ethiopian Jew
					

Growing up in Israel, Shay Sium became accustomed to being called a “******”. Sium, 32, has lived in Israel most of his life, but says he and other Ethiopian Jews are treated differently from other Israelis: factories do not want to employ them; landlords refuse them; and certain schools turn...




					www.thenewhumanitarian.org
				












						The plight of Ethiopian Jews in Israel
					

Protests over the beating of an Ethiopian Israeli soldier have thrown the spotlight on the Ethiopian Jewish community in Israel, writes Prof Yossi Mekelberg.



					www.bbc.com


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)

ScorpioBeauty09 said:


> My mom doesn’t do Ramadan anymore because of her diabetes but this has been weighing on her mind. Mine too. My heart breaks for people who’ve lost their homes and their children. The Rohingya and the Uighrs, it’s heartbreaking and infuriating.



I'm trying to see ways in which I can utilize my legal experience to try and volunteer time for asylum applications. I know you're also an attorney, right sis? I refuse to just sit back and see this happen against other HUMANS.


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## ScorpioBeauty09 (May 14, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> I'm trying to see ways in which I can utilize my legal experience to try and volunteer time for asylum applications. I know you're also an attorney, right sis? I refuse to just sit back and see this happen against other HUMANS.


I have a JD but the bar in California is ridiculously hard to pass. Bar exam results recently came out and 37% passed. It's crazy. I would happily volunteer my time to research case law or something. Research was always where I shone best and what I love doing. Especially in a situation like this. I'm uncomfortable sitting and doing nothing.


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## Black Ambrosia (May 14, 2021)

I’m embarrassed to admit this but when these discussions come up I’m never sure who’s right because there’s so much history and people tend to have strong biases. 

What are good sources (preferably by uninvolved third parties) of info to educate myself? Nothing against the articles posted in this thread but I’m trying to understand the conflict in general terms before examining it in terms of Black people.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 14, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> You cannot under any circumstances try and speak about the racism experienced by Black Africans at the behest of Palestinian*s without also discussing the plight and ostracism of Ethiopian Jews by your beloved Israel.*
> 
> Seeing that you wish to drop long articles in this thread, *I implore you to also read and educate yourself on the discrimination experienced by Black Jews *seeing that you conveniently chose to skirt around it to only point out the experiences of Africans in Palestine:


Who are you talking to? 

I have discussed with other Black Jews on this board and non black Jews off the board about the treatment of Ethiopian Jews.  Not to mention that I broke bread with Ethiopian Jews and Afro Palestinians (everybody always wants to feed me) when I was _merely living_ in Tel Aviv.  Yet again, the tone of black people to other black people when it comes to anything related to this topic is fascinating. 

Receipts from eleven years ago below.  

https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/racist-treatment-of-ethiopian-in-israel.433412/post-9814174


Crackers Phinn said:


> No, it's not supposed to go down this way amongst Jews but at the same time there is no haven for black people anywhere on this planet including Africa.  I can guarantee you that given the choice between staying in Israel and taking the shot vs going back to Ethiopia- the shot will win 100% of the time.
> 
> Anywhere black people are in the world without control of  their own resources, this will happen.
> 
> ...


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)

ScorpioBeauty09 said:


> I have a JD but the bar in California is ridiculously hard to pass. Bar exam results recently came out and 37% passed. It's crazy. I would happily volunteer my time to research case law or something. Research was always where I shone best and what I love doing. Especially in a situation like this. I'm uncomfortable sitting and doing nothing.



I am sure there are ways to get involved even if not barred. Your JD can still be used. Any information I find, I will certainly share.


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## Rastafarai (May 14, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> I’m embarrassed to admit this but when these discussions come up I’m never sure who’s right because there’s so much history and people tend to have strong biases.
> 
> What are good sources (preferably by uninvolved third parties) of info to educate myself? Nothing against the articles posted in this thread but I’m trying to understand the conflict in general terms before examining it in terms of Black people.



There are many resources out there, as I'm also interested in understanding the history behind this conflict. I've just recently ordered a book mentioned upthread that was written by an Israeli professor, Ilan Pappé entitled  "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine". I researched his background and his involvement in trying to promote peace in the region. It's telling that even an Israeli Jew is involved in trying to explain the history of his people and their treatment of Palestine and its people.



Professor Pappé obtained his BA degree from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem in 1979 and the D. Phil from the University of Oxford in 1984.

He founded and directed the Academic Institute for Peace in Givat Haviva, Israel between 1992 to 2000 and was the Chair of the Emil Tuma Institute for Palestine Studies in Haifa between 2000 and 2006.

Professor Pappé was a senior lecturer in the department of Middle Eastern History and the Department of Political Science in Haifa University, Israel between 1984 and 2006.

He was appointed as chair in the department of History in the Cornwall Campus, 2007-2009 and became a fellow of the IAIS in 2010.

His research focuses on the modern Middle East and in particular the history of Israel and Palestine. He has also written on multiculturalism, Critical Discourse Analysis and on Power and Knowledge in general.

SOURCE


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## Crackers Phinn (May 16, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> I’m embarrassed to admit this but when these discussions come up I’m never sure who’s right because there’s so much history and people tend to have strong biases.
> 
> What are good sources (preferably by uninvolved third parties) of info to educate myself? Nothing against the articles posted in this thread but I’m trying to understand the conflict in general terms before examining it in terms of Black people.


There's always some bias but American and European educational institutions discussing the timelines along with historically confirmed accounts of what each side actually did with the least amount of Jews, Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims or Hoteps in the credits are your best bet.  This is one of the few cases where just having reg deg white people tell the story cuts to the chase.


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## Rastafarai (May 16, 2021)

So Israel went ahead to make the brilliant decision to destroy a building housing media outfits AP and Al Jazeera. Israel's claim? That the building housed Hamas military intelligence assets. AP states otherwise, asking for evidence. Israel has yet to provide it.

AP President and CEO Gary Pruitt has released the following statement, understanding that ultimately this is about preventing the media from revealing the genocide that is happening:

SOURCE

"We are shocked and horrified that the Israeli military would target and destroy the building housing AP’s bureau and other news organizations in Gaza. They have long known the location of our bureau and knew journalists were there. We received a warning that the building would be hit.

The Israeli government says the building contained Hamas military intelligence assets. *We have called on the Israeli government to put forward the evidence*. AP’s bureau has been in this building for 15 years. We have had no indication Hamas was in the building or active in the building. This is something we actively check to the best of our ability.* We would never knowingly put our journalists at risk*.

We are seeking information from the Israeli government and are engaged with the U.S. State Department to try to learn more.

This is an incredibly disturbing development. *We narrowly avoided a terrible loss of life*. A dozen AP journalists and freelancers were inside the building and thankfully we were able to evacuate them in time.

*The world will know less about what is happening in Gaza because of what happened today*."


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## Rastafarai (May 16, 2021)

UN Security Council to meet today to "discuss" the ongoing conflict. Mass protests have occurred throughout several cities in the United States including New York, Boston, Washington, and Michigan and several countries. Some images throughout the world yesterday:


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## Rastafarai (May 16, 2021)

This is renowned surgeon Dr. Ayman Abu Al Auf. Assistant Professor of Internal Medicine and section head at Shifa Hospital in Gaza. The most important hospital for Palestinians.⁣
⁣
He was a LEGEND and a close partner to Doctors Without Borders. Many of their doctors have posted about him. ⁣
⁣
Israel killed him. ⁣
And blew up the roads to the hospital. ⁣
A war crime. And just evil.⁣
⁣
And they killed his mother. ⁣
And his aunt. ⁣
And they killed all of his children except one 16 year old boy who survived. ⁣
⁣
Those are his colleagues in the other picture who held prayers and a funeral outside of the hospital. ⁣
⁣
This is genocide.⁣
It’s Apartheid. ⁣
It’s criminal. ⁣
⁣
They murdered him and his family. ⁣
⁣
It’s nothing less than that.

RIP Dr. Ayman Abu Al Auf.



SOURCE


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## Black Ambrosia (May 16, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> View attachment 472191
> 
> 
> This is renowned surgeon Dr. Ayman Abu Al Auf. Assistant Professor of Internal Medicine and section head at Shifa Hospital in Gaza. The most important hospital for Palestinians.⁣
> ...


Are they saying he had ties to Hamas? I can’t wrap my mind around an explanation for this level of retribution.


----------



## Rastafarai (May 16, 2021)

Current road leading a major hospital in the region...ambulance rescue cannot get through.


----------



## Rastafarai (May 16, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> Are they saying he had ties to Hamas? I can’t wrap my mind around an explanation for this level of retribution.



There has been no evidence of such. Extermination needs no explanation. Just silence from the world.


----------



## Black Ambrosia (May 16, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> There has been no evidence of such. Extermination needs no explanation. Just silence from the world.
> 
> View attachment 472199


I have no vested interest or bias and I’m not trying to explain savagery. I’ve already said I don’t know enough about the conflict but I know there are layers and death on both sides. I’m just trying to get context for what’s happening.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 16, 2021)

If Israel wanted the Palestinians exterminated the Palestinians would be dead already.  It could have been done anytime between 1967 and today.  

So stop turning a war over land into something it’s not.


----------



## Rastafarai (May 16, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> I have no vested interest or bias and I’m not trying to explain savagery. I’ve already said I don’t know enough about the conflict but I know there are layers and death on both sides. I’m just trying to get context for what’s happening.



Understood, but you do certainly note and identified it for what it is: savagery. If Israel can decide to bomb an entire building housing media outlets and journalists with short notice, they can certainly go about exterminating Palestinian men, women and children who have no direct ties to Hamas.

I await hearing from the Security Council on next steps. Apparently Finland, Sweden, Ireland and China are advocating for immediate ceasefire to prevent further deaths. Some nations have called for economic sanctions. Similar calls were made against apartheid in South Africa.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 16, 2021)

First thing to understand is Hamas is an elected political party, not some random unorganized street gang.  Hamas is on some Trump  as far as not caring about body counts cuz that keeps the base hype.

Status Report 5/16/21

Israel to Hamas: Stop launching rockets at Jewish cities and we will stop dropping on buildings we think that you are controlling the launching the rockets from.

Hamas to Israel : Nah

Israel to Hamas:  Have it your way.

If the air strikes were an extermination, Gaza would be leveled with no terms of engagement.  

As for the charge that there’s a difference between launching rockets vs dropping bombs:  Would that perspective change if the rockets were being launched at the U.S?  If Mexico launched rockets at Texas or California, who here would care what kind of smoke they got back in return? Especially considering the response to planes flown into buildings.


----------



## discodumpling (May 17, 2021)

Ladies, for my whole life this conflict has been going on. I ask now what I asked my Daddy at 5...what does this have to do with US? I really have  a predetermined amount of effs to give for non Black issues. Why should my effs be used here? 
The Jews estimated 100yrs  to eliminate the Palestinians and their ancestral lands and it seems that they're right on schedule...
As I'm typing the Israeli govt  is expelling Black people from the country. For what?? They don't even know. American Hebrew Jews, Ethiopian Falasha Jews who consider that place their home are being unceremoniously uprooted. So again I ask why should I care about this Israeli Palestinian conflict?


----------



## Rastafarai (May 17, 2021)

discodumpling said:


> Ladies, for my whole life this conflict has been going on. I ask now what I asked my Daddy at 5...what does this have to do with US? I really have  a predetermined amount of effs to give for non Black issues. Why should my effs be used here?
> The Jews estimated 100yrs  to eliminate the Palestinians and their ancestral lands and it seems that they're right on schedule...
> As I'm typing the Israeli govt  is expelling Black people from the country. For what?? They don't even know. American Hebrew Jews, Ethiopian Falasha Jews who consider that place their home are being unceremoniously uprooted. So again I ask why should I care about this Israeli Palestinian conflict?



It is entirely your choice on what you choose to give your effs about, but I created this thread with the hope of spreading information on what is actually being experienced by those in Palestine, whose death toll has increased 10-fold compared to that of innocent Israelis and whose streets are riddled with mangled body parts of young children who were born into this oppression by no choice of their own.

I can only speak for my choices, but I am of the firm belief that injustice and inhumanity anywhere is injustice and inhumanity everywhere. And that's how South Africa ended apartheid, and slavery was eventually abolished and European Jews were finally liberated. Human beings and world powers came together to intervene on behalf of the voiceless, helpless and endangered classes of human species. I am in a position of power to utilize a platform to share information.  How you choose to receive it has and will always be entirely up to you.

Much blessings to you for the remainder of your Monday.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 17, 2021)

discodumpling said:


> Ladies, for my whole life this conflict has been going on. I ask now what I asked my Daddy at 5...what does this have to do with US? I really have  a predetermined amount of effs to give for non Black issues. *Why should my effs be used here?*
> The Jews estimated 100yrs  to eliminate the Palestinians and their ancestral lands and it seems that they're right on schedule...
> As I'm typing the Israeli govt  is expelling Black people from the country. For what?? They don't even know. American Hebrew Jews, Ethiopian Falasha Jews who consider that place their home are being unceremoniously uprooted. So again I ask why should I care about this Israeli Palestinian conflict?


Don't call any black Jews Falasha's it's like saying the n word with a hard R.

I'm a black Jew and agree that black women keep their capes neatly folded on this issue.  Save all your effs sis.   

Israel is not exterminating or eliminating people.  It doesn't take 100 years to exterminate people packed into two areas like sardines.   

BTW - Ya'll are not ready for the Nature Boy hotepery that is the American Hebrew Israelites and their harems. There is a social class distinction between them as black Americans and the Ethiopians.  The black Americans were given land in Israel, the Ethiopians were not.  The ones who are currently being deported would give Dmitri and Ashley's story on Sister Wives a run for their money.


----------



## discodumpling (May 18, 2021)

@Rastafarai I respect your stance on this. Thanks. 
@Crackers Phinn the last thing I wanna do is offend. So thanks for the education. 
That level of Hotepery will not survive in America..I understand why they want to remain in Israel. 
Re: The Palestinians. Are survivors allowed to join Israeli society? Like after their homes are gone where are they "allowed" to live? Do these folks ever find PEACE?


----------



## Kanky (May 18, 2021)

People are way too emotionally invested in this. I don’t like how IRL folks are trying to force everyone to pick a side in a conflict that has very little to do with them.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 18, 2021)

discodumpling said:


> Re: The Palestinians. Are survivors allowed to join Israeli society? Like after their homes are gone where are they "allowed" to live? Do these folks ever find PEACE?


 The Palestinians will never be allowed to join Israeli society as full citizens.  Attempts were made after the British occupation to make it work peacefully with the Palestinians including Jews purchasing land (with sales being voided with no refund).  Palestinians let the Arab league in their ear and multiple battles followed.  The final line pissed in the sand was when the Palestinian elected government joined the fighting on Germany's side in WWII in exchange for removing the Jews from Israel.  Even if you argue that the Palestinians were desperate and turned to the Nazi's to get their land back, how would that have worked out for the rest of the world (black people) if Germany won the war? 

Haj Amin al-Husseini Appointed Mufti of Jerusalem. Haj Amin al-Husseini was the most prominent Arab figure in Palestine during the Mandatory period. (Mufti = a Muslim legal expert who is empowered to give rulings on religious matters)





Haj Amin al-Husseini and Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany, 1941




Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, in Nazi Germany ,1943. 

All of this is on the Googles if you think I'm being a biased Jew and making stuff up that the people who now invoke the image of MLK and George Floyd to gain black empathy and alliance also endorsed their leadership to appeal to Nazis for empathy and alliance.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 18, 2021)

Kanky said:


> People are way too emotionally invested in this. I don’t like how IRL folks are trying to force everyone to pick a side in a conflict that has very little to do with them.


I'm curious, are these black people or some of everybody?


----------



## dicapr (May 18, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> First thing to understand is Hamas is an elected political party, not some random unorganized street gang.  Hamas is on some Trump  as far as not caring about body counts cuz that keeps the base hype.
> 
> Status Report 5/16/21
> 
> Israel to Hamas: Stop launching rockets at Jewish cities and we will stop dropping on buildings we think that you are controlling the launching the rockets from.


Hamas to Israel : Nah


Crackers Phinn said:


> Israel to Hamas:  Have it your way.
> 
> If the air strikes were an extermination, Gaza would be leveled with no terms of engagement.
> 
> As for the charge that there’s a difference between launching rockets vs dropping bombs:  Would that perspective change if the rockets were being launched at the U.S?  If Mexico launched rockets at Texas or California, who here would care what kind of smoke they got back in return? Especially considering the response to planes flown into buildings.


I get what you are saying but even if it was the US I would still find the response to be overkill. Yes Israel can and should defend themselves. But their response is like burning down your house because you saw a few bugs.

ETA: I believe there is enough wrong on both sides to go around. I’m not pro anyone in this situation. They need calm and reason on both sides.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 18, 2021)

dicapr said:


> I get what you are saying but even if it was the US I would still find the response to be overkill. Yes Israel can and should defend themselves. But their response is like burning down your house because you saw a few bugs.


Ok let's say I'm on your side and call it overkill,  what would be a reasonable response?


----------



## dicapr (May 18, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Ok let's say I'm on your side and call it overkill,  what would be a reasonable response?


They need to systematically round up and prosecute the terrorist. I’m actually fine with a black ops  type of response. Drag the perpetrators from their home in the dead of night if you want to. killing children and people too poor to get out of the conflict zone is just bad optics.


----------



## Kanky (May 18, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> I'm curious, are these black people or some of everybody?


Black people and white evangelicals who probably voted for Trump.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 18, 2021)

dicapr said:


> They need to systematically round up and prosecute the terrorist. I’m actually fine with a black ops  type of response. Drag the perpetrators from their home in the dead of night if you want to. killing children and people too poor to get out of the conflict zone is just bad optics.


I hear you but like I said in my first post when Israel does that. This is what Hamas does. 




Again, I realize that I am biased but Google isn't.  Search "Palestinian Child Suicide Bombers".  There are articles from non Jewish sources and plenty of images. There is an article from the U.N. on the first page about Hamas practice of strapping bombs on kids and pointing them at Israeli troops. Hamas sets up operations specifically using civilian families and press as human shields and then use the bodies as a  photo op to say "Look what the Jews did!"  Kids will stand between black ops and Hamas and we get the same headlines.


----------



## Kanky (May 18, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> I hear you but like I said in my first post when Israel does that. This is what Hamas does.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is such a disturbing gif.  I’m not googling it and will take your word on it.




dicapr said:


> They need to systematically round up and prosecute the terrorist. I’m actually fine with a black ops  type of response. Drag the perpetrators from their home in the dead of night if you want to. killing children and people too poor to get out of the conflict zone is just bad optics.


Is this even realistically possible? Which country has ever managed to do this? And to be honest, if I lived in a city that was having rockets fired at it, I would not care what my government did in response so long as the rockets stopped.


----------



## IDareT'sHair (May 18, 2021)

I personally could see the US calling BLM a "Terrorist Organization" (like they tried to do in the previous administration) and randomly start killing Black Folks in this same manner, just because the government has labeled it a terrorist organization and systematically start exterminating people and killing us with impunity.

You say certain things enough times people start to believe it.  Words Matter.

Admittedly, I don't know much about Hamas, the PLO or any other Palestinian organizations (except how the "West" has reported it and want us to believe it).  But I want to see the Palestinian People "FREE"

I do not support the actions of Israel and I am vehemently against  any/all Apartheid systems which I feel the people in Gaza are being subjected to with restricted mobility and no freedom to leave, work or enjoy life.

And I do not support my tax dollars or the Billions of dollars being sent to Israel to buy weaponry without any oversight or accountability.

It just sounds too much like something that could have very well happened to us in this country and we're not too far from it as our Civil rights being rolled back and being killed by the police.

I don't believe the people currently occupying Israel are the "True Jews".  I believe they are the Kazar's.  I do believe how the Balfour Agreement established the 1948 "State of Israel." Israel wants to occupy the entirety of the land through the tactics they are fully implementing including establishing settlements on already occupied land.


----------



## dicapr (May 18, 2021)

Kanky said:


> That is such a disturbing gif.  I’m not googling it and will take your word on it.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this even realistically possible? Which country has ever managed to do this? And to be honest, if I lived in a city that was having rockets fired at it, I would not care what my government did in response so long as the rockets stopped.


I grew up in a military community. My sympathies lie with the regular folk who usually end up dying because those in power send them out to do their dirty work and put them in harms way.


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## discodumpling (May 18, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> The Palestinians will never be allowed to join Israeli society as full citizens.  Attempts were made after the British occupation to make it work peacefully with the Palestinians including Jews purchasing land (with sales being voided with no refund).  Palestinians let the Arab league in their ear and multiple battles followed.  The final line pissed in the sand was when the Palestinian elected government joined the fighting on Germany's side in WWII in exchange for removing the Jews from Israel.  Even if you argue that the Palestinians were desperate and turned to the Nazi's to get their land back, how would that have worked out for the rest of the world (black people) if Germany won the war?
> 
> Haj Amin al-Husseini Appointed Mufti of Jerusalem. Haj Amin al-Husseini was the most prominent Arab figure in Palestine during the Mandatory period. (Mufti = a Muslim legal expert who is empowered to give rulings on religious matters)
> 
> ...


Girl I seen the Googles! Both sides ain't got no love for Black people...not even their very own Black people. Good luck to both of em I guess.


----------



## IDareT'sHair (May 18, 2021)

And I too thought, ALL the commentary about the Holocaust, how could you do this to another people.


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## Black Ambrosia (May 18, 2021)

Kanky said:


> Black people and white evangelicals who probably voted for Trump.


I don't know any black people talking about this. Maybe I'd hear more if I wasn't working from home? This is not even on the radar of black people I know.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 18, 2021)

Here are the rough demographics of the Jewish population of Israel
Mizrahi or Sephardi About 44.9%
Ashkenazi  44.2%  
Beta Israel 3% 
7.9% mixed 

Even if the belief is that Ashkenaz are Khazars then what about the Mizrahim and Sephardim? Are they in on the conspiracy?


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 18, 2021)

Black Ambrosia said:


> I don't know any black people talking about this. Maybe I'd hear more if I wasn't working from home? This is not even on the radar of black people I know.


You are blessed to not have any hoteps in your life.


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## Kanky (May 18, 2021)

IDareT'sHair said:


> I personally could see the US calling BLM a "Terrorist Organization" (like they tried to do in the previous administration) and randomly start killing Black Folks in this same manner, just because the government has labeled it a terrorist organization and systematically start exterminating people and killing us with impunity.
> 
> You say certain things enough times people start to believe it.  Words Matter.
> 
> ...


 @ this. The US has already labeled black people fighting for freedom terrorists and bombed them. We dealt with it, and I don’t recall any Palestinians helping us out. People really need to stop comparing every struggle to Black people’s situation in America. It is not the same. 

I also give a strong side eye to anyone who wants to bring the Palestinians here. We have enough racists.


----------



## dicapr (May 18, 2021)

Kanky said:


> @ this. The US has already labeled black people fighting for freedom terrorists and bombed them. We dealt with it, and I don’t recall any Palestinians helping us out. People really need to stop comparing every struggle to Black people’s situation in America. It is not the same.
> 
> I also give a strong side eye to anyone who wants to bring the Palestinians here. We have enough racists.


The whole they didn’t do anything for us argument doesn’t fit here. The Palestinians can’t keep their homes due to gentrification. They sure aren’t going to be checking for US politics.


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## Kanky (May 18, 2021)

dicapr said:


> The whole they didn’t do anything for us argument doesn’t fit here. The Palestinians can’t keep their homes due to gentrification. They sure aren’t going to be checking for US politics.


The point was that no one will be coming to our rescue should that happen again. Knowing that it makes zero sense to fight or make enemies on  their behalf.


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## dicapr (May 19, 2021)

Kanky said:


> The point was that no one will be coming to our rescue should that happen again. Knowing that it makes zero sense to fight or make enemies on  their behalf.


 I know what you mean but the argument in general never made sense for me. It’s like one homeless person faulting another homeless person for not doing more to help them get off the streets. I agree that the US needs a hands off approach-including not supplying weapons to either side.


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## IDareT'sHair (May 19, 2021)

Well, I pray Public Opinion changes like it did with Apartheid in South Africa and end the Cruel, inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people, who the "West" also labeled as "terrorist" and "terrorist organizations" when they were simply fighting for their freedom to exist, live and to be treated like human beings.

Public Opinion must force the change as it did in SA.

I'm all about "Peace" for all.  Life is far too short and far too difficult.


----------



## Rastafarai (May 19, 2021)

IDareT'sHair said:


> Well, I pray Public Opinion changes like it did with Apartheid in South Africa and end the Cruel, inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people, who the "West" also labeled as "terrorist" and "terrorist organizations" when they were simply fighting for their freedom to exist, live and to be treated like human beings.
> 
> Public Opinion must force the change as it did in SA.
> 
> I'm all about "Peace" for all.  Life is far too short and far too difficult.



Amen, sis. I am also praying for a permanent ceasefire and the end to innocent lives being lost.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 20, 2021)

I pray that the Palestinians figure out that they have lost all land that is currently not in their possession and elect a government that will negotiate a deal to keep what they have left and terms to move forward.   They can be mad from now on but they need to accept the defeat they should have accepted 100 years ago when they had more land to keep.  

Here's where things stand.  We can talk about right and wrong for the next hundred years and the Palestinians still ain't getting the land back.  We can talk about fake Jews til the cows come home and they still ain't getting the land back.  The millions of Jews living in Israel are not leaving and nobody in the world can make them leave. How do I know? If someone could make the Jews leave Israel, it would have been done already.  Hell, the world can't even make Israel stop dropping bombs until it good and gd feels like it.   Short of murdering all the Jews living in Israel, which the Palestinians are completely unable to do,  they ain't getting the land back.  The logical next step is what every losing side in history has had to do.  

Also in response to something posted, if Zionism had caught on a hundred years before it actually did, there would be less Palestinians alive today than Native Americans.  The words extermination and genocide stay tossed around like the population of Palestinians has been decimated to nothing. It's millions of those mf'ers running around and their population growth rate has been positive since the 1950's.  It is in fact, the experience of the Holocaust that is directly responsible for preventing an actual genocide/extermination from happening to the Palestinians.  There is no way to spin 200 causalities out of 2 million Palestinians in Gaza into a genocide/extermination unless you change the meanings of those words.   And no, even though I have my own cultural-religious bias, I don't want to see rising numbers of dead Palestinian civilians (not even men) but that's what's going to keep happening until their leadership waves a white flag.  That said, Hamas can get the all the "heads on pikes" smoke.


----------



## Rastafarai (May 20, 2021)

About sums up my feelings on the recent ceasefire.


----------



## Zuleika (May 21, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Hamas sets up operations specifically using civilian families and press as human shields and then use the bodies as a  photo op to say "Look what the Jews did!"










To those trying to justify the actions of hamas, this is what you’re defending:



But.. but.. but.. "hAmAs iS oNLy tRyiNg tO dEFenD tHEiR pEoPLe aNd tHEir LaNd!"


----------



## Zuleika (May 21, 2021)

"tHeY dON't hAvE rUnNinG wAtER!" (insert spongebag meme here)


On a different note, the "They don't even have running water" argument reminds me of another manipulative narrative that was effectively used against women a few years back when men were bulldozing their way into our spaces and other women (handmaidens) were gaslighting us with "they just want to pee!"


^ Similar energy.


Meanwhile, money for missiles? No problem!  $40 000 per missile, with over 3000 missiles fired at Israel so far, and 12 miles of terror tunnels @ $800 000 per mile) but people will still argue that “Hamas is doing what it has to, to protect its people”


----------



## Rastafarai (May 22, 2021)

Rastafarai said:


> There are many resources out there, as I'm also interested in understanding the history behind this conflict. I've just recently ordered a book mentioned upthread that was written by an Israeli professor, Ilan Pappé entitled  "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine". I researched his background and his involvement in trying to promote peace in the region. It's telling that even an Israeli Jew is involved in trying to explain the history of his people and their treatment of Palestine and its people.
> 
> View attachment 472145
> 
> ...



For anyone that remains interested, I've started reading this book and its been an eye opener. There are so many layers to the history of Palestine and formation of Israel and Professor Pappé does it succinctly with factual basis. About halfway through, but I highly recommend it. Please research the 1948 Palestinian exodus that occurred, also known as Nakba. It is the nuclei of what we have witnessed.

ETA: I see this book is now temporarily out of stock on Amazon. Looks like many others are interested in learning more about this conflict. Glad to see it!


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 22, 2021)

Zuleika said:


> To those trying to justify the actions of hamas, this is what you’re defending:
> 
> 
> 
> But.. but.. but.. "hAmAs iS oNLy tRyiNg tO dEFenD tHEiR pEoPLe aNd tHEir LaNd!"


Hamas is trash. They could have had a cease fire several days earlier but naw that woulda been too much like right.   They needed more dead kid imagery for fundraising.


----------



## KaciaLN12 (May 24, 2021)

I think people are equating Hamas with Palestinians and letting that remove any sympathy. They are in the Middle East in an ongoing war zone; we don’t know how accurate those “elections” are. Bullies usually use intimidation tactic and malicious recruitment to ensure compliance from otherwise neutral parties. Anyone with sense would know one party wouldn’t be able to stay in power for decades with true democratic elections. Those people dying probably just want to be left alone, but they are the bone between two dogs. To blame Palestinians living in basically refugee reservations for the actions of Hamas is rather heartless.
I also think this is low-key a way for Netanyu to remain in power and escape prosecution. I’m positive Hamas and the Israeli government have had back door dealings ever since the conflict started.


----------



## larry3344 (May 28, 2021)

Kanky said:


> People are way too emotionally invested in this. I don’t like how IRL folks are trying to force everyone to pick a side in a conflict that has very little to do with them.


Agreed, all I know both sides treat Africans like Pooh and neither side are innocent.


----------



## larry3344 (May 28, 2021)

dicapr said:


> The whole they didn’t do anything for us argument doesn’t fit here. The Palestinians can’t keep their homes due to gentrification. They sure aren’t going to be checking for US politics.


There are Arabic wealthy countries surrounding that region, why are none them taking them in. You got to be careful who you are siding with. These people aren’t all sweet/innocent victims of the Israeli regime anymore than the Israelis in that area. And as always the west is complicit in this conflict evolving the way it has. There are a lot of hands in the pot.

Human empathy on children and human beings dying in general is one thing but don’t let it fool you. Neither side are innocent and I don’t think it’s an issue with sides more like hexagon where there are several convoluted players. 

The rich Arab countries of the region are using this as a political tool and care nothing of these people. Have you see how Palestinians are treated as refugees in neighbouring countries jordany, Lebanon, etc...

The “Jewish elite” who have settled in that region have their own ish going on and are some power trip largely because they have strong ties with the US and are emboldened.

I understand the spiritual ties to that piece of desert but at the same time in my book it’s a god forsaken land that will never know peace.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 28, 2021)

It occurred to me that people don't know that Israel developed technology to create the largest desalinization factory in the world and is the primary source of fresh water in the Middle East.   One reason why Arab countries will privately fund Hamas while staying out of the foreground of war on Israel is almost every peace treaty has a "give us water" clause that they ain't trying to mess up.  If Palestinians had a shot in hell of reclaiming Israel, they would be occupied immediately by the Arab countries that are funding them and the rest of the ME would negotiate water terms.


----------



## Rastafarai (May 28, 2021)

Be forewarned - Israel is far from the savior others claim it to be:


----------



## Rastafarai (May 28, 2021)

KaciaLN12 said:


> *I think people are equating Hamas with Palestinians and letting that remove any sympathy*. They are in the Middle East in an ongoing war zone; we don’t know how accurate those “elections” are. Bullies usually use intimidation tactic and malicious recruitment to ensure compliance from otherwise neutral parties. Anyone with sense would know one party wouldn’t be able to stay in power for decades with true democratic elections. Those people dying probably just want to be left alone, but they are the bone between two dogs. To blame Palestinians living in basically refugee reservations for the actions of Hamas is rather heartless.
> I also think this is low-key a way for Netanyu to remain in power and escape prosecution. I’m positive Hamas and the Israeli government have had back door dealings ever since the conflict started.


Brilliantly stated, especially the bolded. This is how genocide and exterminations become normalized and even endorsed.


----------



## Rastafarai (May 28, 2021)

NYT ran an article of the murdered young victims. Yet, we should turn a blind eye and blame Hamas alone.


----------



## larry3344 (May 28, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> It occurred to me that people don't know that Israel developed technology to create the largest desalinization factory in the world and is the primary source of fresh water in the Middle East.   One reason why Arab countries will privately fund Hamas while staying out of the foreground of war on Israel is almost every peace treaty has a "give us water" clause that they ain't trying to mess up.  If Palestinians had a shot in hell of reclaiming Israel, they would be occupied immediately by the Arab countries that are funding them and the rest of the ME would negotiate water terms.


 I did know this and Israel regime is also getting involved with the water situation between Egypt and Ethiopia. Desalination is extremely costly to maintain.


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 28, 2021)

As I've said repeatedly and will continue to do so:  Dead kids are good for fundraising and PR for  Hamas.  How many of those kids would still be alive if they agreed to the cease fire when it was first put on the table?


----------



## KaciaLN12 (May 29, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> As I've said repeatedly and will continue to do so:  Dead kids are good for fundraising and PR for  Hamas.  How many of those kids would still be alive if they agreed to the cease fire when it was first put on the table?


I may be mistaken, but wasn’t a cease fire agreed to and then Israeli forces bombed or stormed a Palestinian hospital??


----------



## Kanky (May 29, 2021)

For some reason people seem to have expectations of Israel that they don’t have of any other nation. Why do we expect them to have rockets fired at their cities while they respond in a way that results in zero causalities? How many kids did America kill looking for terrorists after 9/11? That’s how wars work. I feel sorry for anyone whose neighborhood becomes a war zone, but I’m not sure what people think Israel should do? Pack up and leave? Die? Just live with rockets being fired at them?


----------



## Crackers Phinn (May 30, 2021)

KaciaLN12 said:


> I may be mistaken, but wasn’t a cease fire agreed to and then Israeli forces bombed or stormed a Palestinian hospital??


Not that I am aware. I searched the Google for Israel cease fire and hospital and didn’t see anything related.


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## Rastafarai (May 30, 2021)

Google?? You mean _that _platform known for scrubbing the publicizing of Palestinian news and murders is now the best platform to search for any acts against Palestine??

  



KaciaLN12 said:


> I may be mistaken, but wasn’t a cease fire agreed to and then Israeli forces bombed or stormed a Palestinian hospital??



You're not mistaken. I do not rely on Google for my news relating to Gaza, and Facebook/Instagram has banned any type of posts discussing the plight that's currently ongoing. Twitter (which chronicles first-hand experiences and impartial news media outlets), AP and Al Jazeera have been my main source of information as of late.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 30, 2021)

Kanky said:


> Why do we expect them to have rockets fired at their cities while they respond in a way that results in zero causalities?


IMO those people believe in a fairytale Hotepical dogma where turning the other cheek results in something other than getting slapped on both sides.


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## Crackers Phinn (May 30, 2021)

Twitter


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## Crackers Phinn (May 30, 2021)

Ceasefire has a definition which I guess should be looked up on TikTok to avoid media bias or something.


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## Rastafarai (May 30, 2021)

Excellent news!! One of the leaders - Yair Lapd, believes in a two-state solution. The other wishes to end annexing of the West Bank. Its long overdue, but Ben needs to go.


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## nysister (Jun 12, 2021)

I feel so badly for the Palestinians. The Zionists are playing on global sympathies, but they're just as bad as Nazis.


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## nysister (Jun 12, 2021)

Palestinians have aligned with Black people in the past. They are the Jews in this day and age and Israelis align with Nazi ideology.


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## larry3344 (Jun 12, 2021)

nysister said:


> Palestinians have aligned with Black people in the past. They are the Jews in this day and age and Israelis align with Nazi ideology.


Can you please share the reference of that alignment with black people as I am not aware of this. Jews of this day and age, and what are we?



			https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/slavery-in-libya-400-human-auctions.827265/page-3#post-24403031


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## nysister (Jun 12, 2021)

larry3344 said:


> Can you please share the reference of that alignment with black people as I am not aware of this. Jews of this day and age, and what are we?
> 
> 
> 
> https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/slavery-in-libya-400-human-auctions.827265/page-3#post-24403031


Lots of Tweets last year from Palestinians that understood what Black people were dealing.witb and aligned with their plight.


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## nysister (Jun 12, 2021)

larry3344 said:


> Can you please share the reference of that alignment with black people as I am not aware of this. Jews of this day and age, and what are we?
> 
> 
> 
> https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/slavery-in-libya-400-human-auctions.827265/page-3#post-24403031


My self-esteem is just fine, and I align with no one, but seeing people suffer at the hands of those that malign black people, is not something I can get behind.


As a New Yorker, I can assure you that we have more in common with Palestinians than Jews.


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## larry3344 (Jun 12, 2021)

nysister said:


> Lots of Tweets last year from Palestinians that understood what Black people were dealing.witb and aligned with their plight.


If you don’t know by now, all non black minorities align with black people when it comes to injustice for personal gain.

Indians in the UK also aligned with black West Indians in the 60s...where are they now?
During the civil rights era, Asians and Jews aligned with black people as well...where are they now?
The current Asian situation since the pandemic many now are more outspoken as well...wait when things are dying down will see how long that will last.

i have come to observe due to the level of injustice we have experienced as a racial collective we are very sensitive to injustice and we are quick to play the position of “The mouthpiece” nonblacks have peeped game have been able to not get their hands dirty because of it.
I don’t want to seem that I have no compassion for anyone that isn’t black. I just don’t care for their plight more than my own.

ETA: I have nothing in common with Palestinians personally. It sucks what is happening, but they are also to blame.


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## nysister (Jun 12, 2021)

larry3344 said:


> If you don’t know by now, all non black minorities align with black people when it comes to injustice for personal gain.
> 
> Indians in the UK also aligned with black West Indians in the 60s...where are they now?
> During the civil rights era, Asians and Jews aligned with black people as well...where are they now?
> ...


I'm old enough to know that and more. I don't need schooling. Thanks but no thanks.

My observations are based on details on what I've observed. I'm not a child, I don't need an education on this subject. Take that elsewhere, you're not communicating with a moron.

I have nothing for Indians they take advantage of what we have developed and achieved, and use it for Indians alone.

But if I'm going to have empathy between Jews and Palestinians, you best believe it would be with Palestinians.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have mine.


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## larry3344 (Jun 12, 2021)

nysister said:


> I'm old enough to know that and more. I don't need schooling. Thanks but no thanks.
> 
> My observations are based on details on what I've observed. I'm not a child, I don't need an education on this subject. Take that elsewhere, you're not communicating with a moron.
> 
> ...


Understood, if I came off patronizing I apologize. We can agree to disagree.

My simple point is I take no definite position in favour of any specific group.


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## nysister (Jun 12, 2021)

larry3344 said:


> Understood, if I came off patronizing I apologize. We can agree to disagree.
> 
> My simple point is I take no definite position in favour of any specific group.


We're good sis. I understand your POV, truly I do.


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## Ganjababy (Jun 13, 2021)

OASN though, this thread has been quite educational.


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## Rastafarai (Jun 13, 2021)

They finally did it. Israel ousted the mad man behind sanctioned genocide of Palestinians. Many Israelis are celebrating tonight, though some remain reserved given his replacement. We shall see, I suppose.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 14, 2021)

1. 300 people is not a genocide. Words mean things. 

2. The Palestinians ain't getting one square foot of land back.  

3. For reason 2, there will be more escalated violence like clockwork in the next 2-5 years same as it ever was. 

4. Biden, who took office in January, said that “Israel has no better friend than the United States. The bond that unites our people is evidence of our shared values and decades of close cooperation and as we continue to strengthen our partnership, the United States remains unwavering in its support for Israel’s security.”  June 13, 2021  

Israel is only an asset to the U.S. Middle East strategy in Jewish hands.  The Palestinians sided with Germany in WWII, who would they side with today?


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## larry3344 (Jun 14, 2021)

@Crackers Phinn I have always wondered why they don’t flee to their rich Arab neighbours that “supports” their cause. They are literally sounded by “allies in arms” but have to turn to western countries for help?


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 14, 2021)

larry3344 said:


> @Crackers Phinn i have always wondered why they don’t flee to their rich Arab neighbours that “supports” their cause. They are literally sounded by “allies in arms” but have to turn to western countries for help?



The Palestinians already know what's waiting for them which goes hand in hand with why the Lebanese don't flee to their rich Arab neighbors either but are doing their part to colonize Africa.   The Middle East is a snake pit.  Despite the BLM photo ops  there are no good guys, just tribal guys who don't like each other and really don't like outsiders.  Good guys go extinct in the middle east which is what makes the genocide claims even more laughable.    

But don't take my word for it when Twitter is a reliable source. 

_Although close to half of Jordanian nationals are thought to be of Palestinian origin, Palestinians remain vastly under-represented in government. Discrimination against Palestinians in private and state-sector employment remains common and a quota system limits the number of university admissions for Palestinian youth.  

The challenges are even more severe for Palestinians from Gaza and others without Jordanian nationality, who are effectively stateless. Children are unable to benefit from free primary and secondary education, and face higher costs and competition for the limited university spaces available to non-nationals. Non-Jordanians are also disadvantaged in the labour market and cannot enter professions such as law and engineering, since membership in professional associations requires Jordanian citizenship. Without citizenship, Palestinians also face problems buying and selling property, opening a bank account and completing other daily tasks. Gazans are three times more likely to be living under the poverty line compared to other Palestinians in Jordan. 

After the outbreak of conflict in Syria in 2011, many Palestinians living in Syria attempted to seek refuge in Jordan. However, the Jordanian government has reportedly applied differential treatment to Palestinians from Syria, at times turning them back at the border while continuing to allow entry to Syrian refugees._
https://minorityrights.org/minorities/palestinians-2/


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## lavaflow99 (Jun 15, 2021)

Gaza is under attack again


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## nysister (Jun 18, 2021)

lavaflow99 said:


> Gaza is under attack again


Sigh. Those poor people.


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## larry3344 (Jul 2, 2021)




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## Crackers Phinn (Jul 2, 2021)

larry3344 said:


>


Even on good days, Jews are long winded.  Are there any highlights from the video that you want to point out?


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## larry3344 (Jul 2, 2021)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Even on good days, Jews are long winded.  Are there any highlights from the video that you want to point out?


 I do, just didn't want to lose the video, ill time stamp his points later today and update this thread.


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