# Oprah On Jesus



## JuJuBoo (Jun 16, 2005)

www.watchman.org/oprah.htm

I wish more people would have seen this episode before idolizing Oprah.


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## dontspeakdefeat (Jun 16, 2005)

Just goes to show that a lot the wealthy and influential people think they are above the biblical teachings.

If the world could save themselves  with good intentions they would already be saved. Everyone has good intentions don't they?? Doesn't mean everyone is going to heaven.


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## Sweet C (Jun 16, 2005)

Thanks for the link, Jujuboo.  You know I was wondering the same thing when Oprah said something to this lady on her show the other day about God, and I was thinking "huhhh?"

DSD, you are so right.  So often when people get established, their concept of Jesus changes to fit their lifestyle, not his Word.


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 16, 2005)

dontspeakdefeat said:
			
		

> If the world could save themselves  with good intentions they would already be saved. Everyone has good intentions don't they?? Doesn't mean everyone is going to heaven.



So SO So true. "Good intentions" are overated.


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 16, 2005)

Sweet C said:
			
		

> Thanks for the link, Jujuboo.  You know I was wondering the same thing when Oprah said something to this lady on her show the other day about God, and I was thinking "huhhh?"




Yeah, I've heard Oprah say quite a few off the wall things, but she's so charasmatic people forget what she said in about 4 seconds. Hope she wakes up a bit. I admire her generousity, but works don't do much. :-/


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## ThursdayGirl (Jun 16, 2005)

Wow... <speechless>


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## Poohbear (Jun 16, 2005)

What does the New Age spirituality believe???  I don't wanna order her profile.  What does her profile say???

I admire Oprah's generosity but I think it's sad how people idolize her.


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 16, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> What does the New Age spirituality believe???  I don't wanna order her profile.  What does her profile say???
> 
> I admire Oprah's generosity but I think it's sad how people idolize her.



New Age is anything under the sun. I don't know how to explain it. It's really vague--kinda like "God is within yourself. Everyone has their own pathway to God" mentality.


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## MonaLisa (Jun 16, 2005)

Okay, I watched the clip, I'm confused.

I heard Oprah reference a spiritual speakers book, Marianne Williamson and said what she said in the book.

I've never gotten the impression that Oprah was not a believer in Jesus or did not feel he is the spirit that strengthens her.

I believe, she as a talk show host, that not only addresses a forum in America...but Worldwide...was trying to convey to the woman in the audience...to try and look through the eyes of someone in ANOTHER country, not the U.S., who's primary religious beliefs do focus on God/Jesus Christ, who have never ever heard of Jesus Christ or know of his word...but if they lived their lives as Jesus would have wanted them to...wouldn't that allow them to get into heaven.  That was the point I got.

Or do I need to re-watch the clip?


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## Sweet C (Jun 16, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> What does the New Age spirituality believe??? I don't wanna order her profile. What does her profile say???
> 
> I admire Oprah's generosity but I think it's sad how people idolize her.


 
I think it sort of the concept that we are trying to get to the top of the mountain.  Your way of getting there might be different than my way, but we are all reaching for the same thing at the top of the mountain which is God.  So whether you went through Jesus, Mohammed, Hare Krishna, or Imhotep, you are going to reach the top in your own way.


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## Honeyhips (Jun 16, 2005)

I have to hand it to the lady in the white for calling her out. It appears Oprah believes what a lot of people believe that doing good will get you to heaven, and that there is more than one way to heaven and jesus is just another name or there are many names for him. I agree with the lady that Oprah is intellectualizing it and I think a lot of rich, and intelligent people do this. That is something else actually hearing it out of Oprah's mouth though.  My Pastor said for years she was into the New Age stuff.  On one of the boards I lurk on they had a thread on New Age, I'll go look it up and tell you all what they say it is. I personally don't know. 

However, this episode looks old,and we don't know for sure if she still believes this way. I'm inclined to think that she does BUT then she has people like TD Jakes on her show. Just pray for her y'all. My pastor has been saying for years not to listen to Oprah.  I still like her, but I'm careful not to idolize her and I'm careful to ask well what does the Bible say when she gets all of her Pyschologist and people full of wisdom giving out their advice.


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 16, 2005)

I like Oprah, but based on what she's said on her show throughout the years, I can't say she's a Christian.  Having T.D. Jakes on the show doesn't convince me. She had him sit in the AUDIENCE, he wasn't even on the stage!  And she used to do that "Finding Your Spirit" feature on the show for a WHILE. Shoot, the only spirit she needs to find is JESUS! 

In the clip, I don't think she was illustrating the other woman's point. She was defending *her point of view*. She's a good person, I think Oprah's an exceptional woman, but the pathway to God is NARROW. Everything she says SOOOUUNDS great, but it's not always the truth. Sorry Oprah.


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## Honeyhips (Jun 16, 2005)

That's true. I only mentioned TD b/c maybe she is beginning to change. 





			
				JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> I like Oprah, but based on what she's said on her show throughout the years, I can't say she's a Christian.  Having T.D. Jakes on the show doesn't convince me. She had him sit in the AUDIENCE, he wasn't even on the stage!  *And she used to do that "Finding Your Spirit" feature on the show for a WHILE. Shoot, the only spirit she needs to find is JESUS*!
> 
> In the clip, *I don't think she was illustrating the other woman's point.* She was defending *her point of view*. She's a good person, I think Oprah's an exceptional woman, but the pathway to God is NARROW. Everything she says SOOOUUNDS great, but it's not always the truth. Sorry Oprah.


 I didn't say that.   Oh wait, you aren't talking to me are you.


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 16, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> That's true. I only mentioned TD b/c maybe she is beginning to change.  I didn't say that.   Oh wait, you aren't talking to me are you.




lol, no I wasn't talking to you Honey... I wasn't directing the post to anyone, I was only recalling when she did that series on her show.


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (Jun 16, 2005)

I stopped watching Oprah years ago.


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 16, 2005)

I just watched it again. Man, that lady in white was *DOIN* it. Why can't all Christian's be that bold? I give her a whole lot of credit for standing up to one of the most influential and popular persons on the planet. She straight up told Oprah "that's because *you* intellectualize it..." Wow! That's some boldness! On national television I might add. :applause:


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## mzcaramelicious07 (Jun 16, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> I like Oprah, but based on what she's said on her show throughout the years, I can't say she's a Christian.  *Having T.D. Jakes on the show doesn't convince me. She had him sit in the AUDIENCE, he wasn't even on the stage!*  And she used to do that "Finding Your Spirit" feature on the show for a WHILE. Shoot, the only spirit she needs to find is JESUS!
> 
> In the clip, I don't think she was illustrating the other woman's point. She was defending *her point of view*. She's a good person, I think Oprah's an exceptional woman, but the pathway to God is NARROW. Everything she says SOOOUUNDS great, but it's not always the truth. Sorry Oprah.



Girl I noticed the same thing.  Now she has adulterers, molesters, "high class suburban undercover" crackheads and everyone else and their momma sit up in those soft cushiony couches, but had T.D. Jakes sittin' in the audience.  I saw that and was like "Whhhhhhhaaaaaaaaattttttt!!!?!?!  erplexed 

And girl I also second that the only spirit that she needs to find is Jesus.  I do appreciate her for everything that she does, but like someone else said, works don't get u to heaven.


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## Honeyhips (Jun 16, 2005)

Yeah,I was so impressed. I was over here cheesin'. 


			
				JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> I just watched it again. Man, that lady in white was *DOIN* it. Why can't all Christian's be that bold? I give her a whole lot of credit for standing up to one of the most influential and popular persons on the planet. She straight up told Oprah "that's because *you* intellectualize it..." Wow! That's some boldness! On national television I might add. :applause:


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## sugaplum (Jun 16, 2005)

ladydee36330 said:
			
		

> I stopped watching Oprah years ago.



Yeah same here ladydee.   I don't care for her at all.


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## Dare~to~Dream (Jun 16, 2005)

*What did she say? I couldn't view the clip that was posted, it didn't work for me.*


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## Ayeshia (Jun 16, 2005)

so if she wasnt a Christian and she said thatshe wasn't (not going by her off the wall comments, just in general)...ya'll wouldnt watch her show?


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## senimoni (Jun 16, 2005)

Ayeshia said:
			
		

> so if she wasnt a Christian and she said thatshe wasn't (not going by her off the wall comments, just in general)...ya'll wouldnt watch her show?




Thats what I'm wondering...b/c you won't be able to watch to much then it would seem.


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## Kikootie (Jun 16, 2005)

What year was this footage from. I remeber watching TBN and T.D. Jakes said that Oprah called him out of the blue asking about Jesus and getting saved. Then he said she made a statement about wanting the Holy Spirit too. I hope this phone call took place after this footage.


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## Vintagecoilylocks (Jun 16, 2005)

I always pray for these folks with all their intellectual and new age religion.  Hopefully, and maybe she has,  they find out how empty their stuff is and no matter how much good works or money they donate they are empty.  When Oprah and others truelly want the Holy spirit with out trying to manage things to suit themselves the Lord will place in their life the proper circumstances and person to show them the way.  No matter who she invites on her show she is attempting to control the truth to suit her.  When she lets go of her self and turns it over to Christ it will happen.  The truth shall set her free.   Hank Hanagraph doesn't have good things to say about T.D. JAkes so I don't know what having him in the audience really meant. Sounds Like trying to play both sides of the same coin.


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## dreamgurl (Jun 16, 2005)

ladydee36330 said:
			
		

> I stopped watching Oprah years ago.


 
Same here...and never really was addicted to it in the first place. 

New Age Movement...

1. Monoism: The concept that all things are made of essentially the same spiritual substance and at a certain level are merged into the oneness of the all.

2. Pantheism: The idea that all is God (pan = all, theos = God)

3. Reincarnation: The belief in the preexistence of the soul--that is, that it returns to physical existence repeatedly until it achieves the most refined and highest state of the Great Oneness of the universe. This can also be described as Spiritual or Cosmic Evolution.

4. Enlightenment (personal and societal): The notion that through a change of consciousness about one's own divinity and the monistic "oness of all" an evolutionary step of spiritual progression can be achieved by an individual and, eventually and incrementally, by the collective society. This should result in an understanding that we have secret of esoteric knowledge contained in our subconscious self--or what Carl Jung called the "collective unconscious of the human race"--that can allow us to manipulate energy and matter by our thoughts and thereby achieve health and wealth.

5. Spiritism: The belief that there are spirits that can be contacted both of the dead and extraterrestrial sources that provide us with insight into ethics and the meaning of life on earth.

I met a woman a while ago who had a shop next to my brother's BSS store who read palms and sold crystals, crystal balls, new age music, candles, incense and all sorts of little trinkets...well in my curiosity (since my sister-in-law said she told her she was a Christian) I go in to ask her what her beliefs are...well basically, they embrace pretty much everything (religion) under the sun. She said she communes with an angel that visits her and she speaks with this angel and this angel gives her guidance and direction....I wanted to tell her sooo bad...*that ain't nothing but the devil **disguising himself as an angel of light. *


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## dreamgurl (Jun 16, 2005)

Ayeshia said:
			
		

> so if she wasnt a Christian and she said thatshe wasn't (not going by her off the wall comments, just in general)...ya'll wouldnt watch her show?


 
I just don't have the time or better yet make the time to watch her show...she is a phenomenal woman and has done great things...but I'm either on LHCF when her show is on, not at home or spending time with my children.


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## Dare~to~Dream (Jun 16, 2005)

Lanelle said:
			
		

> *What did she say? I couldn't view the clip that was posted, it didn't work for me.*


*I wish I could view the clip so that I can hear what she said for myself...I'm not getting exactly what was said by reading this thread and the responses...and no one wants to fill me in either.*


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## angaliquew (Jun 16, 2005)

MonaLisa said:
			
		

> Okay, I watched the clip, I'm confused.
> 
> I heard Oprah reference a spiritual speakers book, Marianne Williamson and said what she said in the book.
> 
> ...


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## MonaLisa (Jun 16, 2005)

Lanelle said:
			
		

> *I wish I could view the clip so that I can hear what she said for myself...I'm not getting exactly what was said by reading this thread and the responses...and no one wants to fill me in either.*


 
Lanelle...keep trying to click the link...perhaps it will finally show up for you.

Good Luck L.

@ Ayeshia....interesting question.

I have one more question...then I'm gonna shut up...

So....is it not possible...to be a believer of Jesus Christ as our Saviour...and at the same time...understand that there are millions of people out in the world that do not understand the concept of Jesus...never heard the word in their lives...but live their lives with compassion, love, etc. as Jesus would want them to live their lives, they won't go to heaven because they don't understand him?

So basically, I have the same question as Oprah I guess...so whether it was her viewpoint or that of the authors she mentioned...I still understood, I guess to only me in this thread so far, what was trying to be conveyed in Oprah's question to the woman in the audience.


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## pebbles (Jun 16, 2005)

Ayeshia said:
			
		

> so if she wasnt a Christian and she said thatshe wasn't (not going by her off the wall comments, just in general)...ya'll wouldnt watch her show?



No, that's not what's being said. The point that is being made is that she has professed in the past to being Christian, yet much of what she says runs contrary to what is taught in our faith. So, in light of that, it would be wise for people to know what she really believes before declaring her to be a Christian woman, and idolized under the assumption that she really shares the same faith.


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## pebbles (Jun 16, 2005)

MonaLisa said:
			
		

> Lanelle...keep trying to click the link...perhaps it will finally show up for you.
> 
> Good Luck L.
> 
> ...




Yes, you can be a believer of the Lord Jesus and understand that there are millions of people out in the world that do not know Jesus. However, to spread the belief that there is more than one way to the Father other than through Jesus Christ, when Jesus said Himself that the only way to the Father was through Him,  is NOT the Christian way because that teaching goes against our belief. The thing to do would be to encourage people to get to know Christ, not offer them an alternative to heaven.


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## DragonPearl (Jun 16, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> No, that's not what's being said. The point that is being made is that she has professed in the past to being Christian, yet much of what she says runs contrary to what is taught in our faith. So, in light of that, it would be wise for people to know what she really believes before declaring her to be a Christian woman, and idolized under the assumption that she really shares the same faith.


There is a lot of different beliefs and interpretations under the umbrella of Christianity and the* one* thing they all have in common is the belief in Christ. If she calls herself a Christian woman because she believes in Christ, who are we to decide that she is not Christian, just because we don't agree with her interpretation?


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## MonaLisa (Jun 16, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Yes, you can be a believer of the Lord Jesus and understand that there are millions of people out in the world that do not know Jesus. However, to spread the belief that there is more than one way to the Father other than through Jesus Christ, when Jesus said Himself that the only way to the Father was through Him, is NOT the Christian way because that teaching goes against our belief. The thing to do would be to encourage people to get to know Christ, not offer them an alternative to heaven.


 

Thank you Pebbles for that....yes, I understand this.  Those that know of the Christian way understands this.

I was referring to the others in this world...that do not understand this...as you and I do...they have never heard of Jesus Christ...they don't know of the Christian religion at all...there is no one following the Christian religion at all..no missionary is visiting their remote area of the world to expound on the word of Christ...

yet, ironically, they are...living their lives as Jesus would want them to live...in their hearts, in their actions towards others, do they still get to go to heaven even though technically, they are not Christians?

That's what I got from Oprah's question and I have pretty good comprehension skills.


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## angaliquew (Jun 16, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> No, that's not what's being said. *The point that is being made is that she has professed in the past to being Christian, yet much of what she says runs contrary to what is taught in our faith.* So, in light of that, it would be wise for people to know what she really believes before declaring her to be a Christian woman, and idolized under the assumption that she really shares the same faith.




Christians do things everyday that run contrary to what they say they believe, including me...no one's perfect.  

Why does she have to share the same faith in order to make a valid point about people who haven't heard the word of God?

So would it be okay to idolize her if she said she was a Christian?


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## pebbles (Jun 16, 2005)

Jessy55 said:
			
		

> There is a lot of different beliefs and interpretations under the umbrella of Christianity and the* one* thing they all have in common is the belief in Christ. If she calls herself a Christian woman because she believes in Christ, who are we to decide that she is not Christian, just because we don't agree with her interpretation?



I don't know about the many different beliefs and interpretations you are referring to, but I, for one, will not sit and take everybody's word for it that they are in fact Christians and followers of the teachings of Christ. If your witness or testimony goes contrary to what the word of God says, I will not accept that you are following what He taught. I will accept that you call yourself a Christian, but I do believe that a person's actions and words speak volumes. The bible teaches us that out of the church, many will not be acknowledged by Jesus in the end because their deeds. So. . .


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## pebbles (Jun 16, 2005)

MonaLisa said:
			
		

> Thank you Pebbles for that....yes, I understand this.  Those that know of the Christian way understands this.
> 
> I was referring to the others in this world...that do not understand this...as you and I do...they have never heard of Jesus Christ...they don't know of the Christian religion at all...there is no one following the Christian religion at all..no missionary is visiting their remote area of the world to expound on the word of Christ...
> 
> ...



Forgive me, but I was not questioning your comprehension skills.


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## MonaLisa (Jun 16, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> MonaLisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MonaLisa (Jun 16, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Forgive me, but I was not questioning your comprehension skills.


 
*Oh, I know that Pebbles.  I didn't think that at all.*

*I was just saying...that's what I comprehended from Oprah's question...it just seems like I heard something different from everyone else....*

*just trying to wrap my mind around it is all.*

*Thanks much for responding*.


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## angaliquew (Jun 16, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> I don't know about the many different beliefs and interpretations you are referring to, but *I, for one, will not sit and take everybody's word for it that they are in fact Christians and followers of the teachings of Christ.* *If your witness or testimony goes contrary to what the word of God says*, I will not accept that you are following what He taught. I will accept that you call yourself a Christian, but I do believe that a person's actions and words speak volumes. The bible teaches us that out of the church, many will not be acknowledged by Jesus in the end because their deeds. So. . .




How does what she said run contrary to what the bible says in reference to people who have heard the word?


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## pebbles (Jun 16, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> Christians do things everyday that run contrary to what they say they believe, including me...no one's perfect.
> 
> Why does she have to share the same faith in order to make a valid point about people who haven't heard the word of God?
> 
> So would it be okay to idolize her if she said she was a Christian?



Who said anything about requiring perfection from Oprah or anyone else? That's not the point I'm making at all. I think it's fair to say that perfection is not something any one of us can achieve. I certainly don't expect it of her. She can make whatever point she wants, but those of us who know what the word of God teaches, (whether we follow it to the letter or not), know not to try to conform the Word of God to our lifestyle, but we are to conform ourselves to The Word of God, whether we like it or not.  I can be knee deep in sin and still know that I'm not living right. But still, I should not try to reduce the Word of The Lord to suit my way of thinking or to appease the world, or try not to offend the sensibilities of others.


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## DragonPearl (Jun 16, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> I don't know about the many different beliefs and interpretations you are referring to, but I, for one, will not sit and take everybody's word for it that they are in fact Christians and followers of the teachings of Christ. If your witness or testimony goes contrary to what the word of God says, I will not accept that you are following what He taught. I will accept that you call yourself a Christian, but I do believe that a person's actions and words speak volumes. The bible teaches us that out of the church, many will not be acknowledged by Jesus in the end because their deeds. So. . .


When Jesus says: *"I am the way, and the truth, and *
*the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 *
*the question is, w**hat is the Way?* 

Isn't it the Way of living with compassion and love for your fellow human beings? the Way of forgiveness and trust in God? the same Way Jesus exemplified by his cruxifiction, when he could have easily destroyed those who were torturing him? Wasn't Jesus setting an example by his cruxifiction when he was asking God to forgive his tormentors, for they do not know what they are doing?

That is *my* understanding of Jesus as the Way, the Truth and the Life. Not this obsession with the historical Jesus, but the deeper message, the deeper teaching. It's very easy to go around claiming to love Jesus and have all kinds of hatred, animosity and comtempt for people in your heart. I see it all the time. I too am guilty of it. 

I think Jesus pays more attention to people's deeds than to their words. Wouldn't that mean that people who do not know the historical Jesus, but follow his Way, that is, a life of compassion and love for their fellow human beings, their deeds would be acknowledged by Jesus in the end?


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## pebbles (Jun 16, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> How does what she said run contrary to what the bible says in reference to people who have heard the word?



People who have heard The Word of God, know that Jesus teaches that the only way to the Father is through Him. Knowing this, I would think it would make more sense to encourage those who may not know this to seek out a relationship with Jesus Christ. I find it a bit odd that anyone with Oprah's reach, who at one time did say she was Christian, would not take that opportunity to spread the Word to those who don't know what the bible teaches. Instead, she says that there has to be more than one way to God, but we call ours Jesus, and she basically supports the belief that people who live right and do good works can make it to heaven. That's not what we're taught. In short, if you feel that what she said is fine, that is certainly your right. But I'm not in agreement with her way of thinking.


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## pebbles (Jun 16, 2005)

Jessy55 said:
			
		

> When Jesus says: *"I am the way, and the truth, and *
> *the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 *
> *the question is, w**hat is the Way?*
> 
> ...



First of all, let us acknowledge that Christians sin. So it can come as no surprise that Christians deal with issues of hatred, animosity, unbelief, unforgiveness, jealousy, envy, and countless other issues. Christ gave His life for just those kinds of people. Thank God for His Grace and Mercy! 

All of the things you stated about living with love and compassion, etc., go hand in hand with the obligation to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I honestly don't know how any of these deeds will be accepted by the Lord without acknowledging that above all, Jesus Christ is Lord. 

I think we definately differ in our belief that Jesus pays more attention to deeds than to words. I don't recall reading anywhere that works alone would suffice in getting anyone into heaven. I certainly won't argue the point with you, but again, I can respect your opinion, I'm just not in agreement.


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## pebbles (Jun 16, 2005)

MonaLisa said:
			
		

> *Oh, I know that Pebbles.  I didn't think that at all.*
> 
> *I was just saying...that's what I comprehended from Oprah's question...it just seems like I heard something different from everyone else....*
> 
> ...



Gotcha!


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## DragonPearl (Jun 16, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> First of all, let us acknowledge that Christians sin. So it can come as no surprise that Christians deal with issues of hatred, animosity, unbelief, unforgiveness, jealousy, envy, and countless other issues. Christ gave His life for just those kinds of people. Thank God for His Grace and Mercy!
> 
> *All of the things you stated about living with love and compassion, etc., go hand in hand with the obligation to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I honestly don't know how any of these deeds will be accepted by the Lord without acknowledging that above all, Jesus Christ is Lord.*
> 
> I *think we definately differ in our belief that Jesus pays more attention to deeds than to words.* I don't recall reading anywhere that works alone would suffice in getting anyone into heaven. I certainly won't argue the point with you, but again, I can respect your opinion, I'm just not in agreement.


 
To the bolded parts, my answer would be:
*"Not every one that says to me; 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21 *

Pebbles, I too respect your opinion. It's a pleasure debating religion with you.


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## angaliquew (Jun 16, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> *People who have heard The Word of God, know that Jesus teaches that the only way to the Father is through Him.* *Knowing this, I would think it would make more sense to encourage those who may not know this to seek out a relationship with Jesus Christ.* I find it a bit odd that anyone with Oprah's reach, who at one time did say she was Christian, would not take that opportunity to spread the Word to those who don't know what the bible teaches. Instead, she says that there has to be more than one way to God, but we call ours Jesus, and she basically supports the belief that people who live right and do good works can make it to heaven. That's not what we're taught. In short, if you feel that what she said is fine, that is certainly your right. But I'm not in agreement with her way of thinking.




I see your point, but I just interpret what she was saying in a different way...I guess we can agree to disagree


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## LaRobinWolfe76 (Jun 17, 2005)

The bible says:

Romans 9:30-32

What shall we say then?The Gentiles who did not follow after righteousness[who did not seek salvation by right relationship to God]have attained it by faith[a righteousness imputed by God based on and produced by faith].
Whereas Israel,though ever in pursuit of a law[for the securing] of righteousness (right standing with God) actually did not suceed in fulfilling the Law.
_For what reason?Because[they persued it]not through faith,relying [instead] on the merit of their works[they did not depend on faith but on what they could do]_.They have stumbled over the Stumbling Stone.

Romans 10:3,9,14-18

_For being ignorant of the righteousness that God ascribes[which makes one acceptable to Him in word, thought and deed]and seeking to establish a righteousness (a means of salvation) of their own,they did not obey or submit themselves to God's righteousness._

Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to,trust in,and rely on the truth)that God raised Him from the dead,you will be saved.

But how are people to call upon Him Whom they have not believed[in Whom they have no faith,on Whom they have no reliance]?And how are they to believe in Him[adhere to,trust in,and rely upon Him]of Whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?
And how can men[be expected to]preach unless they are sent?As it is written,How beautiful are the feet of those who bring glad tidings![How welcome is the coming of those who preach the good news of His good things]
But they have not all heeded the Gospel;for Isaiah says Lord,who has believed (had faith in) what he has heard from us?
So faith comes by hearing[what is told],and what is heard comes by the preaching[of the message that came from the lips]of Christ (the Messiah Himself).
But I ask have they not heard? Indeed they have;_[for the Scripture says]Their voice[that of nature bearing God's message]has gone out to all the earth,and their words to the far bounds of the world._


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## Honeyhips (Jun 17, 2005)

I'd still watch it, I still do,  b/c it is a quality show. 





			
				Ayeshia said:
			
		

> so if she wasnt a Christian and she said thatshe wasn't (not going by her off the wall comments, just in general)...ya'll wouldnt watch her show?


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## Honeyhips (Jun 17, 2005)

This footage is old. I couldn't tell you the year though.  That is good to know about her calling T.D.  





			
				Kikootie said:
			
		

> What year was this footage from. I remeber watching TBN and T.D. Jakes said that Oprah called him out of the blue asking about Jesus and getting saved. Then he said she made a statement about wanting the Holy Spirit too. I hope this phone call took place after this footage.


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## Honeyhips (Jun 17, 2005)

Vintagecoilylocks said:
			
		

> I always pray for these folks with all their intellectual and new age religion. Hopefully, and maybe she has, they find out how empty their stuff is and no matter how much good works or money they donate they are empty. When Oprah and others truelly want the Holy spirit with out trying to manage things to suit themselves the Lord will place in their life the proper circumstances and person to show them the way. No matter who she invites on her show she is attempting to control the truth to suit her. When she lets go of her self and turns it over to Christ it will happen. The truth shall set her free.  Hank Hanagraph doesn't have good things to say about T.D. JAkes so I don't know what having him in the audience really meant. Sounds Like trying to play both sides of the same coin.


 
In all fairness this is an old tape, we really don't know what she feels.  And who is Hank Hanagraph, and why is he the authority?


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (Jun 17, 2005)

Ayeshia said:
			
		

> so if she wasnt a Christian and she said thatshe wasn't (not going by her off the wall comments, just in general)...ya'll wouldnt watch her show?


Her beliefs have nothing to do with my not watching her. After a while she just got boreing to me and as someone else said, I have more important things to do with my time.. like watch Judge Judy, Judge Mathis, Peoples Court, Judge Joe Brown, Texas Justice and Divorce Court. Hope I didnt leave anyone out.  LOL


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## Honeyhips (Jun 17, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> So would it be okay to idolize her if she said she was a Christian?


not at all.


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## Netta1 (Jun 17, 2005)

Vintagecoilylocks said:
			
		

> I always pray for these folks with all their intellectual and new age religion.  Hopefully, and maybe she has,  they find out how empty their stuff is and no matter how much good works or money they donate they are empty.  When Oprah and others truelly want the Holy spirit with out trying to manage things to suit themselves the Lord will place in their life the proper circumstances and person to show them the way.  No matter who she invites on her show she is attempting to control the truth to suit her.  When she lets go of her self and turns it over to Christ it will happen.  The truth shall set her free.   Hank Hanagraph doesn't have good things to say about T.D. JAkes so I don't know what having him in the audience really meant. Sounds Like trying to play both sides of the same coin.



"what profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul"- The WORD

I hope that when I'm rich I don't get stupid, its silly to "lean unto your own understanding", and yet we as humans do it all te time. What we must remember is Oprah is a human being with a major platform and with major influence. She says what she thinks people of this age want to hear. So many people are lost searching for "truth" when the answer is right there in black and white. I know that Oprah knows that Jesus is the ONLY way, heck the bible says that no man comes to the father unless he goes through the son.  I remember when I was dating this guy who was agnostic (in his own definition he believed there was a God, but he didn't believe in one way and he didn't believe in Jesus) ummmmm needlesstosay he was an "intellectual" but couldn't see the elementary truth. I can't think of what scripture this was but God broke it all down for me and told me in so many words that you can't accept the father without believing in the son and those who don't accept Jesus are "antichrist"...I gotta find that scripture it was pretty deep. 

Pray for Oprah I gotta feeling that she knows the truth and is just in denial of it. I think She says/does whats keeps her popular with the world.... either way shes dead wrong....


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## vevster (Jun 17, 2005)

I judge a person by there DEEDS. Look at what Oprah has done over the years all the people she has helped, her work in Africa.

She didn't take us into a phony war, with doctored intelligence like Bush the PHONEY CHRISTIAN that many of you voted for.

I go by DEEDS and not BY DOGMA.


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## pebbles (Jun 17, 2005)

vevster said:
			
		

> I judge a person by there DEEDS. Look at what Oprah has done over the years all the people she has helped, her work in Africa.
> 
> She didn't take us into a phony war, with doctored intelligence like Bush the PHONEY CHRISTIAN that many of you voted for.
> 
> I go by DEEDS and not BY DOGMA.



The ultimate judgement that matters is that of God, since He is the ONLY ONE who has a heaven or hell to send anyone to. As to phoney Christians, they are all over the place, not just in the White House, and this war is far from the only crime ever committed against humanity. And I dare say it won't be the last. You can judge a person worthy or unworthy, but again I say to you all, the ONLY person's who's judgment and opinion matters in the end is that of the LORD GOD. 

A person can be "good," (according to the laws of man), and have an angel network and feed the hungry and tend to the sick, and tell you to seek out your "inner strength", etc., but if their words are not in line with the Word of God, and cause people to stumble, or leads them away from what the word says, all of that "goodness" to please the world matters not! Because in the end, only one person't opinion will matter, and it won't be any of our opinions, I can assure you of that!


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## pebbles (Jun 17, 2005)

Jessy55 said:
			
		

> To the bolded parts, my answer would be:
> *"Not every one that says to me; 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21 *
> 
> Pebbles, I too respect your opinion. It's a pleasure debating religion with you.




In a nutshell, this is EXACTLY what I'm saying! I just didn't quote from the bible.  So in light of this, it is imperative that one pays close attention to everything anyone might say who claims to be a follower of Christ. Their words, as well as their actions, must be in line with The Book. We will not be able to present as an excuse to the Lord that the person we followed was a good person and claimed to be Christian. If we know what the Word says, we are held accountable for the things we do and believe in. I beg my sisters, don't fall for good deeds alone to judge a person as a Christian. That really isn't enough.


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## beverly (Jun 17, 2005)

*"Not every one that says to me; 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Fa**ther, who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21 *

*In reference to that scripture above, it is his will  that you accept the sacrifice for our sins, which God sent down as Jesus Christ.  None will come to the Father in heaven but by Jesus Christ - that is in the bible.*

*As far a Bush , I don't like it, but it was Gods will, and I realize now why he was elected, because this world is coming to an end - very soon. You see alot of the things happening now, that the Lord said would happen in the book of Revelations - people in power that should not be, wars, rumors of wars, people claiming to be Christ (false Messiahs being followed, cults) perverseness (homesexuality), murders, etc happening at an increasing rate. *


*Also in the bible it says all will have had the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ and accpet him before he returns, so if you don't accept him - Christ and the redeemer - which the only way you can get into heaven, then you will not be saved.*


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## Chaya (Jun 17, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> A person can be "good," (according to the laws of man), and have an angel network and feed the hungry and tend to the sick, and tell you to seek out your "inner strength", etc., but if their words are not in line with the Word of God, and cause people to stumble, or leads them away from what the word says, all of that "goodness" to please the world matters not! Because in the end, only one person't opinion will matter, and it won't be any of our opinions, I can assure you of that!



I actually agree with Oprah and I am not afraid to say it. I am Christian. I believe that my only way is through Christ but I do not look down on other religions. Understand that every relgion calls themselves the TRUE religion. BELIEVE. At one point I was in a relgion that called all you all on this board BABYLON THE GREAT, FALSE RELIGION etc that would perish with the GREAT DRAGON (SATAN) at some point. So understand most religions are CONVINCED that they are doing the right thing towards pleasing "GOD". With that being said, what right do we have to condemn Anyone for believing in how they serve "GOD" as long as in their daily lives they  " have an angel network and feed the hungry and tend to the sick, and tell you to seek out your "inner strength". God said above all things you should have LOVE among one another. So all those who preach the word and dont live in congruence in what they say IN EVERYTHING THEY DO, are guilty of disobeying GOD. I am one of those people. I PREACH AND TEACH but I dont always DO. 
I am no position to judge. I am not pious, lofty or greater than thou.
I embrace the fact that I am imperfect. Oprah is extremely generous. Whether or not she is a billionaire that lady is always doing SOMETHING for the GREATER GOOD. She is understanding of all ways of thinking, beliieving and all walks of life and DOES NOT JUDGE. She is not CONDEMNING of anyone who thinks different from her.
I understood everything Oprah said and found the women in the audience to be display feelings that God would not approve like being judgemental, disrespectful (talking out of turn), boisterous and angry.


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 17, 2005)

wow, this thread blew up. I'll be back to answer a few things. I'm at work right now.


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## tuffCOOKiE (Jun 17, 2005)

Chaya said:
			
		

> I actually agree with Oprah and I am not afraid to say it. I am Christian. I believe that my only way is through Christ *but I do not look down on other religions. * Understand that every relgion calls themselves the TRUE religion. BELIEVE. At one point I was in a relgion that called all you all on this board BABYLON THE GREAT, FALSE RELIGION etc that would perish with the GREAT DRAGON (SATAN) at some point. So understand most religions are CONVINCED that they are doing the right thing towards pleasing "GOD". With that being said, what right do we have to condemn Anyone for believing in how they serve "GOD" as long as in their daily lives they  " have an angel network and feed the hungry and tend to the sick, and tell you to seek out your "inner strength". God said above all things you should have LOVE among one another. So all those who preach the word and dont live in congruence in what they say IN EVERYTHING THEY DO, are guilty of disobeying GOD. I am one of those people. I PREACH AND TEACH but I dont always DO.
> I am no position to judge. I am not pious, lofty or greater than thou.
> *I embrace the fact that I am imperfect*. Oprah is extremely generous. Whether or not she is a billionaire that lady is always doing SOMETHING for the GREATER GOOD. She is understanding of all ways of thinking, beliieving and all walks of life and DOES NOT JUDGE. She is not CONDEMNING of anyone who thinks different from her.
> I understood everything Oprah said and found the women in the audience to be display feelings that God would not approve like being judgemental, disrespectful (talking out of turn), boisterous and angry.




Chaya, I totally agree with you.  I will not look down on my fellow man but I do not embrace my imperfections only because you will grow to accept them and you should always strive to be better for God.

I doubt, (hopefully) that anyone denounces Oprah for what she's said but I feel that she isnt grounded in the WORD.  To be in those types of arguments, you have to know God's WORD like the back of your hand.  You must be prepared for battle and put on your full armor of God.

Also, I'm not an Oprah fan not because I hate her, or because of this but because I dont really watch TV. But at the same time, this icon is entitled to her beliefs.  Some people who were raised in the WORD take it for granted like they know it all.  Perhaps she's already made her decision.  

RANT BEGINING:

And as far as her giving all that stuff away. Umm, I think I look at it as a grain of salt.  She is A BILLIONAIRE.  She doesnt have anyone to support. She's single.  If anything, she's probably doing that to get tax deductibles (a lot of reasons rich people give away).  If she REALLY wanted to impress me, she's give it ALL away and start from scratch. No one NEEDS 5 houses and a condo. lol.  I just feel that coming from where she was (poor) I feel that she SHOULD do these things.  i dunno..

RANT OVER

thanks for listening 

--cooki


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## tuffCOOKiE (Jun 17, 2005)

Netta1 said:
			
		

> I hope that *when I'm rich* I don't get stupid,




HAHAHHAA   I say that all the time. God willing.. God willing..

Also, in my last post I didnt want to make it seem that I believe in what Oprah is saying but someone needs to pray with her.  but still dont judge her tho..

::Exits thread::

--cookie


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## pebbles (Jun 17, 2005)

Chaya said:
			
		

> I actually agree with Oprah and I am not afraid to say it. I am Christian. I believe that my only way is through Christ but I do not look down on other religions. Understand that every relgion calls themselves the TRUE religion. BELIEVE. At one point I was in a relgion that called all you all on this board BABYLON THE GREAT, FALSE RELIGION etc that would perish with the GREAT DRAGON (SATAN) at some point. So understand most religions are CONVINCED that they are doing the right thing towards pleasing "GOD". With that being said, what right do we have to condemn Anyone for believing in how they serve "GOD" as long as in their daily lives they  " have an angel network and feed the hungry and tend to the sick, and tell you to seek out your "inner strength". God said above all things you should have LOVE among one another. So all those who preach the word and dont live in congruence in what they say IN EVERYTHING THEY DO, are guilty of disobeying GOD. I am one of those people. I PREACH AND TEACH but I dont always DO.
> I am no position to judge. I am not pious, lofty or greater than thou.
> I embrace the fact that I am imperfect. Oprah is extremely generous. Whether or not she is a billionaire that lady is always doing SOMETHING for the GREATER GOOD. She is understanding of all ways of thinking, beliieving and all walks of life and DOES NOT JUDGE. She is not CONDEMNING of anyone who thinks different from her.
> I understood everything Oprah said and found the women in the audience to be display feelings that God would not approve like being judgemental, disrespectful (talking out of turn), boisterous and angry.




It's incredibly interesting to me that the minute you defend The Word as it's written, people will come out of the woodwork to tell you that you are judgemental and that nobody's perfect, etc. If people were perfect what reason would Christ have had to die on the cross? It's understood that we are all sinners. Believe me; there really is no need to extol the virtues of Oprah to me. I never said she didn't do a lot of nice things for people. But just as you are unafraid to say that you agree with her, permit me to be just as unafraid to declare what the Bible says is right. She is leaning on her own understanding and that's fine for her and you, if that's what you wish. I just choose not to follow what she says because it is not biblical. I'm not looking down on her or anybody else, but if what I said makes me appear judgemental in the eyes of a few folks, so be it.


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 17, 2005)

Chaya said:
			
		

> I actually agree with Oprah and I am not afraid to say it. I am Christian. I believe that my only way is through Christ but I do not look down on other religions. Understand that every relgion calls themselves the TRUE religion. BELIEVE. At one point I was in a relgion that called all you all on this board BABYLON THE GREAT, FALSE RELIGION etc that would perish with the GREAT DRAGON (SATAN) at some point. So understand most religions are CONVINCED that they are doing the right thing towards pleasing "GOD". With that being said, what right do we have to condemn Anyone for believing in how they serve "GOD" as long as in their daily lives they  " have an angel network and feed the hungry and tend to the sick, and tell you to seek out your "inner strength".



I don't think anyone was condemning Oprah, or looking down at what other people believe. I think it's often misconstrued that defending the Bible is condemning other religions. I'm not condemning anything....but you betta believe I'm gonna tell you what's been proven to me as truth! I think the Bible makes it clear that there are some things that are true whether you believe in them or *not.* The only way to God is through *JESUS*. Some people can't handle that truth.  



> God said above all things you should have LOVE among one another. So all those who preach the word and dont live in congruence in what they say IN EVERYTHING THEY DO, are guilty of disobeying GOD. I am one of those people. I PREACH AND TEACH but I dont always DO.
> I am no position to judge. I am not pious, lofty or greater than thou.
> I embrace the fact that I am imperfect.



I don't think anyone was passing judgement. 



> Oprah is extremely generous. Whether or not she is a billionaire that lady is always doing SOMETHING for the GREATER GOOD. She is understanding of all ways of thinking, beliieving and all walks of life and DOES NOT JUDGE. She is not CONDEMNING of anyone who thinks different from her.
> I understood everything Oprah said and found the women in the audience to be display feelings that God would not approve like being judgemental, disrespectful (talking out of turn), boisterous and angry.



Maybe it's just me, but I thought that lady was *bold as a LION*.  Jesus went up in the temple, and TURNED the tables *OVER oKAAAAY!?!?!* lol. Trust, Jesus was NOT afraid of causing a disturbance or interupting *anything!!!!* I wish more Christians would walk in authority like that. To me, I did not interpret that lady's actions as being judgemental in any way--she was bringing the *TRUTH*, and when you're not living the truth, it's gonna be *offensive*! 

On the surface, Oprah's philosophy seems cool. "Oh, you have your way to God, and I have mine, and other person has there's." what?! Where in the Bible does it say *THAT*. I know the Bible DOES say that "a double minded man is unstable in all he does." and it also says be HOT or be COLD, and ditch the luke warm stuff. (My modern translation.  )

I don't know Oprah's spiritual state now. :shrugg:.......I really do hope she called Bishop Jakes and accepted Christ as the Way and *ONLY WAY*.


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## Poohbear (Jun 17, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Yes, you can be a believer of the Lord Jesus and understand that there are millions of people out in the world that do not know Jesus. However, to spread the belief that there is more than one way to the Father other than through Jesus Christ, when Jesus said Himself that the only way to the Father was through Him, is NOT the Christian way because that teaching goes against our belief. The thing to do would be to encourage people to get to know Christ, not offer them an alternative to heaven.


I TOTALLY AGREE!!! 

ETA: ...and with everything else you have said in response to some of these posts, pebbles!!!


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## BLESSED1 (Jun 17, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> So would it be okay to idolize her if she said she was a Christian?





			
				Honeyhips said:
			
		

> not at all.



Right? Doesn't it say in the Bible that we're not to idolize anyone, God's a jealous God and something like that (yes I need to brush up on my quoting skills so someone please help me out w/ the passage if you know what I'm talking about)  

I was confused by the clip too, I still don't know what they were arguing about. But that lady in white was fierce, she has some preaching potential!


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## angaliquew (Jun 17, 2005)

Okay, everyone keeps stressing the point that Jesus is the only way, which I too believe.   But why isn't anyone addressing what Oprah was asking the woman in the clip. What about people who have never heard the name of Jesus???

I know the woman responded by saying the God will not come back until his gospel is preached to all four corners of the earth, which I also believe.

But, what (like Oprah was asking) about the people on the earth where the gospel hasn't reached yet, who have already died?   Did all of them go to hell?


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## Miosy (Jun 17, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> www.watchman.org/oprah.htm
> 
> I wish more people would have seen this episode before idolizing Oprah.





Wow, thanks for sharing that.  It's a powerful example when the bible says that you cannot work for two master because one will suck you right in.  Oprah needs the light and that's Jesus.


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## Miosy (Jun 17, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> Okay, everyone keeps stressing the point that Jesus is the only way, which I too believe.   But why isn't anyone addressing what Oprah was asking the woman in the clip. What about people who have never heard the name of Jesus???
> 
> I know the woman responded by saying the God will not come back until his gospel is preached to all four corners of the earth, which I also believe.
> 
> But, what (like Oprah was asking) about the people on the earth where the gospel hasn't reached yet, who have already died?   Did all of them go to hell?



I have to say I haven't met a person on this earth who has not heard of the name Jesus whether atheist, jewish, muslium, etc.  but as that woman said that God's Word does say that the end will come when all man had the opportunity to hear about His son and either they will accept it or reject but u make a good point to ask what happens to those who die and never heard of the Gospel.  My best advice is leave it on God's hand because we could talk and speculate what will happen but our thoughts are not like His thoughts so we will probably be way off anyway   He thinks differently then we do and there are many unanswered questions that the bible does not specifically address but when the time comes, we'll know the answers


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## secretdiamond (Jun 17, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> Okay, everyone keeps stressing the point that Jesus is the only way, which I too believe.   But why isn't anyone addressing what Oprah was asking the woman in the clip. What about people who have never heard the name of Jesus???
> 
> I know the woman responded by saying the God will not come back until his gospel is preached to all four corners of the earth, which I also believe.
> 
> But, what (like Oprah was asking) about the people on the earth where the gospel hasn't reached yet, who have already died?   Did all of them go to hell?




I totally agree.  I think some here are taking what Oprah said and running with it in a completely different direction and YES, passing judgment.  How can you call someone stupid for one sentence that someone said and try to say that she doesn't belive in Christianity? I personally don't approve of some aspects of her life, but aren't there MANY examples in the Bible of Jesus connecting with the ones everyone else thought was going to hell?  You guys don't know her heart and what she meant by it AND we don't know what's in her heart for a reason.  She has said many times that she won't thoroughly discuss her personal religous beliefs in public due to the fact that she is a talk show host and tries to keep fairly neutral on the subject.

Anyway, what she said on the tape is kinda what I think too.  For those who are unfortunate to die and had never been exposed to Jesus' name, they are not automatically condemned hell. If they were living their lives in the way Jesus wants, how can they be punished? I think that's what Oprah was getting at.



			
				chaya said:
			
		

> I actually agree with Oprah and I am not afraid to say it. I am Christian. I believe that my only way is through Christ but I do not look down on other religions. Understand that every relgion calls themselves the TRUE religion. BELIEVE. At one point I was in a relgion that called all you all on this board BABYLON THE GREAT, FALSE RELIGION etc that would perish with the GREAT DRAGON (SATAN) at some point. So understand most religions are CONVINCED that they are doing the right thing towards pleasing "GOD". With that being said, what right do we have to condemn Anyone for believing in how they serve "GOD" as long as in their daily lives they " have an angel network and feed the hungry and tend to the sick, and tell you to seek out your "inner strength". God said above all things you should have LOVE among one another. So all those who preach the word and dont live in congruence in what they say IN EVERYTHING THEY DO, are guilty of disobeying GOD. I am one of those people. I PREACH AND TEACH but I dont always DO.
> I am no position to judge. I am not pious, lofty or greater than thou.
> I embrace the fact that I am imperfect. Oprah is extremely generous. Whether or not she is a billionaire that lady is always doing SOMETHING for the GREATER GOOD. She is understanding of all ways of thinking, beliieving and all walks of life and DOES NOT JUDGE. She is not CONDEMNING of anyone who thinks different from her.
> I understood everything Oprah said and found the women in the audience to be display feelings that God would not approve like being judgemental, disrespectful (talking out of turn), boisterous and angry.?



My sentiments exactly.    




			
				angaliquew said:
			
		

> *The bible even makes a reference to these people:*
> 
> Romans 2:11-16 (New King James Version)
> 
> ...




EXACTLY. ITA.


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## MonaLisa (Jun 17, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> Okay, everyone keeps stressing the point that Jesus is the only way, which I too believe. But why isn't anyone addressing what Oprah was asking the woman in the clip. What about people who have never heard the name of Jesus???
> 
> I know the woman responded by saying the God will not come back until his gospel is preached to all four corners of the earth, which I also believe.
> 
> But, what (like Oprah was asking) about the people on the earth where the gospel hasn't reached yet, who have already died? Did all of them go to hell?


 
*Girl...I gave up...this is the same thing I asked from jump....and everybody keeps going back to Oprah is not a true follower of God and if she was she'd preach that on her show (oblivious to the fact that she is hosting a worldwide show and everybody doesn't know about the word of God..which she was trying to ask the lady in the audience...what about those that DON'T know about our Father but lives as he would want them to)....*

*I even broke it down like you did ...it went right back to what Oprah's assumed ideology is....*

**throws hands in the air**


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## MonaLisa (Jun 17, 2005)

mystiqu529 said:
			
		

> I totally agree. I think some here are taking what Oprah said and running with it in a completely different direction and YES, passing judgment. How can you call someone stupid for one sentence that someone said and try to say that she doesn't belive in Christianity? I personally don't approve of some aspects of her life, but aren't there MANY examples in the Bible of Jesus connecting with the ones everyone else thought was going to hell? You guys don't know her heart and what she meant by it AND we don't know what's in her heart for a reason. She has said many times that she won't thoroughly discuss her personal religous beliefs in public due to the fact that she is a talk show host and tries to keep fairly neutral on the subject.
> 
> *Anyway, what she said on the tape is kinda what I think too. For those who are unfortunate to die and had never been exposed to Jesus' name, they are not automatically condemned hell. If they were living their lives in the way Jesus wants, how can they be punished? I think that's what Oprah was getting at*.


 

*Oh Thank you!  Somebody else!!!*


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## EbonyEyes (Jun 17, 2005)

vevster said:
			
		

> I judge a person by there DEEDS. Look at what Oprah has done over the years all the people she has helped, her work in Africa.
> 
> She didn't take us into a phony war, with doctored intelligence like Bush the PHONEY CHRISTIAN that many of you voted for.
> 
> I go by DEEDS and not BY DOGMA.



Vester...honey...

You are obviously still angry about our president's actions.

Just know that God is still in control and He has a most excellent reason for *allowing* Bush still being in office.

But about Oprah...I don't know if she is still a Christian or not.  I'll admit that I have pondered over whether people will be accepted into heaven if they did not say with their mouths that Jesus Christ was Lord even if they were good people.

I mean, you can have a person who has one of the kindest hearts.  He's humble, generous, thoughtful, and loving.  But he never got the opportunity to hear the name Jesus and dies.  Will God turn him away from the gates of heaven because he did not hear of his son Jesus though he lived a life like Jesus would have wanted him to?  I don't know about that.

I just thank God that I was born into a family that taught me about Jesus!  I was talking about this to my mom yesterday.  Slavery was not a great thing.  But slavery brought my ancestors to this country where they heard white folks talking about a man named Jesus.  My ancestors accepted Jesus and called on him and his father to deliver them from slavery.  God answered their prayers and I'm glad to be in this country where my ancestors sent the teachings of Jesus down the generations to me!


-Ebony


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## Poohbear (Jun 17, 2005)

BLESSED1 said:
			
		

> Right? Doesn't it say in the Bible that we're not to idolize anyone, God's a jealous God and something like that


i was about to mention this after seeing that question... you are right!


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## webby (Jun 17, 2005)

I'm all late on this, but I have always pondered Oprah's religious beliefs, only because she says, "Higher being," but never outright says God or Jesus.

At any rate, I don't personally question my belief in Jesus or the fact that He died for my siins, but I have often wondered about the salvation of others who don't believe in Jesus or worship the way that I do.

Every person who believes, regardless to what the believe, feels that their way of worship is THE way. For instance, my closest friend comes from a family of Zen buddhists. Her family is quiet, unassuming and very giving. They don't believe in Jesus, although they know of Him, but they are some of the most humble humans I have ever met. I pray for them and imagine that they will have a seat in heaven, because I cannot imagine their kindness would go unrewarded in the eternal.


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## pebbles (Jun 17, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> I don't think anyone was condemning Oprah, or looking down at what other people believe. I think it's often misconstrued that defending the Bible is condemning other religions. I'm not condemning anything....but you betta believe I'm gonna tell you what's been proven to me as truth! I think the Bible makes it clear that there are some things that are true whether you believe in them or *not.* The only way to God is through *JESUS*. Some people can't handle that truth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Mmmm-hmmm!


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## pebbles (Jun 17, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> Okay, everyone keeps stressing the point that Jesus is the only way, which I too believe.   But why isn't anyone addressing what Oprah was asking the woman in the clip. What about people who have never heard the name of Jesus???
> 
> I know the woman responded by saying the God will not come back until his gospel is preached to all four corners of the earth, which I also believe.
> 
> But, what (like Oprah was asking) about the people on the earth where the gospel hasn't reached yet, who have already died?   Did all of them go to hell?



I couldn't say if all of those people went to hell or not. Only God knows what provisions He's made for them. What we do know is that the bible doesn't teach us to worry about those who have passed on. Their fate is already determined, and we know God is in control of that. We are to concern ourselves with the people who are alive and can be taught the word of God. We should tell them what the Word of God teaches, not what will please everyone to hear. It seems to be that these days, you have to be politically correct even where the word of God is concerned. I just can't go with that.


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## Enchantmt (Jun 18, 2005)

Wow...8 pages... 

 This is sorta long but I wanted to address everything I remember...

Oprah has always had some off the wall ideas. I was watching a clip on her site the other day or maybe it was on tv, where she was telling about buying a car for her father and had the dealership open for her on a Sunday, when they are normally closed for business. She made reference to wanting to get out of going to church with him. I dont know where her beliefs stand now, I dont watch her that often and always end up missing the good shows, but her shows in general reflect what is going on in her life and as her beliefs have changed we have heard her make different comments and statements. As she evolves you will see it come out in her topics. Everyone is on a journey, everyone is at a different place of understanding, I hope she has gotten it together tho. As far as watching her, I take wisdom where I find it, even if it comes from an "non-Christian" source. However just because a source is MOSTLY trustworthy and accurate, doesnt mean it is ALWAYS trustworthy and accurate. If can benefit from some of her shows, and gain knowledge and understanding I do so, but I dont take everything she says as gospel, as she can err just like everyone else. Its our responsiblity to filter the information we receive and discern truth. 

Now, as far as the author she mentioned, Marianne Williamson. She is an author who writes spiritual books based on A Course in Miracles. Years ago my sister brought these books home, and she was really excited about them. She had been reading them, following their principles, and was happier than I had ever seen her. Naturally I'm curious and she had offered to buy me a copy. I  skimmed through the Course in Miracles, and all of it appeared to be sound, giving advice based on biblical principles. God is good however, and just as I was thinking I'd like to have my own copy, the book fell open to a passage that basically stated that Jesus was a CONCEPT. That there was no heaven or hell in the sense that there is an after life and a God to pass judgement. It basically said that we make our own heaven or hell based on how we live our life and our level of enlightenment. Now, biblical principles work for ANYONE. God said do "A" and "B" will happen, so if you do 'A', 'B' WILL happen. You reap what you sow, whether you are Christan or not. This course is giving folx almost everything they need for victorious living: sound principles to guide their lives, how to resolve conflict with others and live in peace, principles that will prosper them because they are based on Gods law.  Everything EXCEPT for Jesus. 

 The enemy is cleaver. You cant tell folx who have followed these principles that they wont work because they are seeing and living the results. If deception were easy to spot you wouldnt have so many people deceived. This lie is effective because it is mixed with truth. They are getting the benefits of the truth in that their lives are improving, so they think this course is truth, but their souls are damned because Christ cant cover their sin because they dont recongnize Him as a LIVING God and their need for salvation. 

 I probably could have benefitted from the course itself, because it gives examples and puts the concepts in laymans terms that when you read it a light goes off and you think "so thats how that works!". I never read it though because I didnt want to get mixed up in something because of more subtle deception. God showed me what was wrong with it from jump, so it was my responsiblity to walk away from it. I did end up with Mariannes book but I threw it out. As far as my sister, I dont know what to think, I believe at one time she had accepted Christ, and I feel even if you backslide you cant lose your salvation. God has promised salvation through so many generations and I know my grandfather was a praying man of God, so I pray for her and leave it in Gods hands.

In the old testament before Christ came, obedience to God was counted as righteousness. There was paradise and I think hades or gehenna. The saints were sent to paradise and the sinners to hades, after Christ came the saints went to heaven. God is a fair, just and righeteous God. I'm sure that He will be able to show when you had a chance to accept Him, and that everyone will be given clear opportunity to. God is not powerless, and trust me He speaks. Its not His will that any should perish but we are given free will to choose our own way. I personally have my own ideas about some of these things, like what happens to children who die before they are mature enough to accept Christ, but I dont have scripture to quote to support it, its just my own ideas so I'm not going to go into them here. Just know this, God isnt trying to trap us, or punish us. Jesus came for us to be SAVED. Hes NOT the bad guy. 

Finally, there is nothing wrong with Oprah or anyone questioning God or what happens to folx who havent accepted Christ. God encourages us to question, not just blindly follow. Our faith should not just be based on concepts, but with our experience with God, our relationship. We have to trust God and know that He will do what He says He will do. Know that He loves us and that He isnt out to "get" us or catch us messing up. However, and this has been pointed out several times, *IF* she is claiming she is a Christian, to state that there are MANY paths to God not only goes against the biblical teaching that there is only ONE (Jesus), it is also is putting her in a position to cause others to fall because of her power and influence. (You saw what one lil comment about beef sparked off.)  If there were another way Jesus wouldnt have had to die in the first place. I too have respect for the beliefs of others, HOWEVER, I am not going to sit and agree with someone that they are going to heaven when the bible teaches otherwise.  If someone says they are Christian and says that there is another way they are either deceived or deceiving you.


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## pebbles (Jun 18, 2005)

Enchantmt said:
			
		

> Oprah has always had some off the wall ideas. I was watching a clip on her site the other day or maybe it was on tv, where she was telling about buying a car for her father and had the dealership open for her on a Sunday, when they are normally closed for business. She made reference to wanting to get out of going to church with him. I dont know where her beliefs stand now, I dont watch her that often and always end up missing the good shows, but her shows in general reflect what is going on in her life and as her beliefs have changed we have heard her make different comments and statements. As she evolves you will see it come out in her topics. Everyone is on a journey, everyone is at a different place of understanding, I hope she has gotten it together tho. As far as watching her, I take wisdom where I find it, even if it comes from an "non-Christian" source. However just because a source is MOSTLY trustworthy and accurate, doesnt mean it is ALWAYS trustworthy and accurate. If can benefit from some of her shows, and gain knowledge and understanding I do so, but I dont take everything she says as gospel, as she can err just like everyone else. Its our responsiblity to filter the information we receive and discern truth.
> 
> Now, as far as the author she mentioned, Marianne Williamson. She is an author who writes spiritual books based on A Course in Miracles. Years ago my sister brought these books home, and she was really excited about them. She had been reading them, following their principles, and was happier than I had ever seen her. Naturally I'm curious and she had offered to buy me a copy. I  skimmed through the Course in Miracles, and all of it appeared to be sound, giving advice based on biblical principles. God is good however, and just as I was thinking I'd like to have my own copy, the book fell open to a passage that basically stated that Jesus was a CONCEPT. That there was no heaven or hell in the sense that there is an after life and a God to pass judgement. It basically said that we make our own heaven or hell based on how we live our life and our level of enlightenment. Now, biblical principles work for ANYONE. God said do "A" and "B" will happen, so if you do 'A', 'B' WILL happen. You reap what you sow, whether you are Christan or not. This course is giving folx almost everything they need for victorious living: sound principles to guide their lives, how to resolve conflict with others and live in peace, principles that will prosper them because they are based on Gods law.  Everything EXCEPT for Jesus.
> 
> ...




Excellent post!! Thank-you!! Hopefully, people will take the time to read carefully what you've read and not think you're passing judgement on anybody!


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## Vintagecoilylocks (Jun 18, 2005)

La RobinWolfe76 and Enchanment,  thankyou 

   The truth is rejected by many and hard to take.  Yes we should not stay silent when the scriptures and truth is being distored.  The fact that Ophra is in an influencial position places much responsiblity on her.  As a Christian we all  It doesn't matter if its her show or not Christians are held to a different authority and if our "opinion" does not support Christian teachings we will be held accountable for damage done. "To much that has been given Much will be expected"  Also that is why it state preachers will be held to a higher accounting.  I have heard the line about so many people not hearing about Christ for years.  But if you do research you will find it difficult to find people who have never heard of Jesus Christ.  Many of the major other religions teach about Christianity to try and refute it.  Every muslim i have ever met including in Muslim countries all will try and tell you the falseness of Christianity.  They have a complete doctrine of teaching what they have been taught to say Christianity is false.  You realize Muhammed was well taught in Judism and Christianity.  Since Islam is one of the largest religions in the world that does not leave that many people in ignorance.  It is not that much of a secret to the rest of the world.  The word was preached here in the America's as far back as the 7th century and there are evidence and documentation of missionaries being killed all over this earth for hundreds of years when they brought the word.  The bible states the truth that all will have their opportunity and I trust God is a just God and they will.  However, that does not mean that the other religions are true. The Lords words are exact.  " No one come to the Father accept By the Son" 
A Christians who feels there are other ways to God should at least let it be known that is their opinion but it contridicts the bible.


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## JamericanGurl (Jun 18, 2005)

webby said:
			
		

> I'm all late on this, but I have always pondered Oprah's religious beliefs, only because she says, "Higher being," but never outright says God or Jesus.
> 
> At any rate, I don't personally question my belief in Jesus or the fact that He died for my siins, but I have often wondered about the salvation of others who don't believe in Jesus or worship the way that I do.
> 
> Every person who believes, regardless to what the believe, feels that their way of worship is THE way. For instance, my closest friend comes from a family of Zen buddhists. Her family is quiet, unassuming and very giving. They don't believe in Jesus, although they know of Him, but they are some of the most humble humans I have ever met. I pray for them and imagine that they will have a seat in heaven, because I cannot imagine their kindness would go unrewarded in the eternal.



Gandi was not a Christian and trust and believe he is in an eternal better place! There are many who have served, that were not Christian. Christianity is not the be all end all! While there are certain aspects of Christianity I embrace. *I'm not a Christian!*. Because there are too many aspects that I don't embrace. Many of Christianity's closes followers don't understand that it's not their job to judge or condem. Their mission is to be good people and do good acts. One of which is enlightening others to the word of God! 

I quoted you *Webby* because your friends the Buddist will have a place and it's not Hell! I for one have read the Bible, Torah, and Quoran. I have also read some of the teachings of Buddism. Each religion has offered me many things and are very similar in their teachings. Each have passages that simply don't apply to the world we live in  example: "Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together" (Deut.22:9-11). I'm not going to rule out the fact that God has revealed himself to Mohommed to bring fourth his teachings. I certainly won't tell a Hindhu that his teachings of peace and serinity are wrong. Nor will I tell a Christian they faith won't heal their souls!

As for Oprah, I don't much pay attention to her....But, yet I have understand where she's coming from oddly?

Christians continue to do your good works and remember the best medicine for us non-Christians is prayer. Prayer is Powerful! Your faith is a beautiful thing and blessing will fall upon you! Please don't misunderstand I believe in God! My belief is in a higher being that allows us to live our lives make mistakes and learn from them. I don't believe that a Being so beautiful could condem those who do God like things just because they don't use the King James Bible as their guide to salvation. ....JMO!

Oh and please keep in mind if anyone's condemming me.......I'll be the Sistah on the left sitting on the block of ice. These comments are just how I feel and I'm not trying to sway anyone or disprove anyone's beliefs.

P.S
I used this passage :"Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together" (Deut.22:9-11). Because this is a reference many racists use in defending their belief in not race mixing. I didn't use it to refute the Bible.

P...Double S

I know this is the Christian forum and openly admitting I'm not one was a no no! Never the less I still believe that Jesus lives! I just don't conform to any religion. But I have admiration for those who answered the call!


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## Vintagecoilylocks (Jun 18, 2005)

JamacianGurl,

    I have heard many people say the same as you, speaking of American /western Christian however many of the people of the different religions you hsve spoke of do not subscribe to that thought.  Also heaven is mostly a Judao Christian foundation belief.  One cannot say that (and I have studied them all too) a buddist even believes in heaven so I never say they will go.  Out of respect for others to choose what they believe, who they believe and why we can not group them under certain aspects of Christianity then defend them and say they will recieve the same.  I do not believe that Gandhi believed as a Christian does.  So to say he is in an eternal place with heaven in mind really disrepects their faith if you understand what I am saying.  Hindu's do not have this concept of heaven as a Christian is taught. And they do not believe in a God as a Christian is taught.  Though many of them know what Christianity teaches they have choose to remain in their belief.  It seems Christians are not allowed to have their own belief with out being accused of excluding others from Christian belief.  Buddha is not a God and Buddhist do not worship God.  Therefore it can not be a path to the God of Judism and Christianity.  Islam was founded on a pure rejection of the Jewish and Christian faith therefore it cannot be speaking of the same "God" lest you want to believe that God lied to somebody since the teachings contridict each other.  Even Judism and Christianity diverge at Christ.   Yes you can learn some wise everyday practical things to get you through your day from all of them but if you are seeking the salvation of the God of the Holy bible, everlasting life, the promise of the Gospel then it can only come from that faith in Jesus Christ.  If you seek something else it will have to come from somewhere else.  

  I do not know what you are seeking but it sounded like you are missing the foundational points of all of these religions therefore over looking the fact that they do oppose one another.  Christians are not trying to deny anyone the promise of Christ.  But if you don't believe and accept him you cannot recieve from him.


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## Stormy (Jun 18, 2005)

Wow. What a deep post. I often wonder... why is it that when a christian (or anyone for that matter) states their belief, or opinion about something then it's called being "judgemental" or "Condemning". It's almost as if the accuser is feeling guilty, so they throw these terms back at you to justify whatever it is they're feeling guilty of. Now, don't get me wrong. If I say "Oh you are going to hell because you did such and such..." well then yes that is condemning. And that's wrong. But just because a person tells what they've learned from the bible, well that's not the same thing--to me anyway. If so oh well... 

Which brings me to say that I was raised to believe in the bible. And according to my teachings and what I have read in the bible myself--God's word, there is only ONE way to him and that is through Christ. There is no other way. I can't believe that there is a soul on this earth that hasn't heard of Christ. Unless they're a baby maybe... but we know they're already accounted for. And like someone mentioned earlier, we're all going to be given the chance to accept him. Also like Pebbles said for those who didn't get a chance their fate is determined already by God. 

The bible talks about all of these things coming such as false prophets, homosexuality, etc... look how it's being accepted in society now (another topic I know). And Christians (those who believe in Jesus Christ) being ridiculed. I'll continue to pray for those who are deceived by false teachings.


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## JamericanGurl (Jun 18, 2005)

Vintagecoilylocks said:
			
		

> JamacianGurl,
> 
> I have heard many people say the same as you, speaking of American /western Christian however many of the people of the different religions you hsve spoke of do not subscribe to that thought.  Also heaven is mostly a Judao Christian foundation belief.  One cannot say that (and I have studied them all too) a buddist even believes in heaven so I never say they will go.  Out of respect for others to choose what they believe, who they believe and why we can not group them under certain aspects of Christianity then defend them and say they will recieve the same.  I do not believe that Gandhi believed as a Christian does.  So to say he is in an eternal place with heaven in mind really disrepects their faith if you understand what I am saying.  Hindu's do not have this concept of heaven as a Christian is taught. And they do not believe in a God as a Christian is taught.  Though many of them know what Christianity teaches they have choose to remain in their belief.  It seems Christians are not allowed to have their own belief with out being accused of excluding others from Christian belief.  Buddha is not a God and Buddhist do not worship God.  Therefore it can not be a path to the God of Judism and Christianity.  Islam was founded on a pure rejection of the Jewish and Christian faith therefore it cannot be speaking of the same "God" lest you want to believe that God lied to somebody since the teachings contridict each other.  Even Judism and Christianity diverge at Christ.   Yes you can learn some wise everyday practical things to get you through your day from all of them but if you are seeking the salvation of the God of the Holy bible, everlasting life, the promise of the Gospel then it can only come from that faith in Jesus Christ.  If you seek something else it will have to come from somewhere else.
> 
> I do not know what you are seeking but it sounded like you are missing the foundational points of all of these religions therefore over looking the fact that they do oppose one another.  Christians are not trying to deny anyone the promise of Christ.  But if you don't believe and accept him you cannot recieve from him.



Thank you! For answering me. I don't think you quite got what I was saying...But, your answer to me was inspiring! I didn't say Gandi had a place in heaven...I said in a place eternal. Gandhi was a man that had spirit...What spirit...I don't know? I just know that god has given us too many great teachers that have not acknowledge him as God. It's to difficult for me to believe they will go without reward in death....Again JMO!  You embrace a very good quality...You have tried to better understand others, which has given you strength! I think that all religions to some degree oppose one another to some degree don't you think? Protestants, Catholics,and Evengelists their teachings differ in some ways, but they all praise God. I'm not missing any of the foundational points of these other religions. I've taken the written words and attempted to better understand..it's all in interpretation....I guess!

Keep doing what you are doing...You make the world a better place! i do appreciate your words!


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## JamericanGurl (Jun 18, 2005)

Stormy said:
			
		

> Wow. What a deep post. I often wonder... why is it that when a christian (or anyone for that matter) states their belief, or opinion about something then it's called being "judgemental" or "Condemning". It's almost as if the accuser is feeling guilty, so they throw these terms back at you to justify whatever it is they're feeling guilty of. Now, don't get me wrong. If I say "Oh you are going to hell because you did such and such..." well then yes that is condemning. And that's wrong. But just because a person tells what they've learned from the bible, well that's not the same thing--to me anyway. If so oh well...
> 
> Which brings me to say that I was raised to believe in the bible. And according to my teachings and what I have read in the bible myself--God's word, there is only ONE way to him and that is through Christ. There is no other way. I can't believe that there is a soul on this earth that hasn't heard of Christ. Unless they're a baby maybe... but we know they're already accounted for. And like someone mentioned earlier, we're all going to be given the chance to accept him. Also like Pebbles said for those who didn't get a chance their fate is determined already by God.
> 
> The bible talks about all of these things coming such as false prophets, homosexuality, etc... look how it's being accepted in society now (another topic I know). And Christians (those who believe in Jesus Christ) being ridiculed. I'll continue to pray for those who are deceived by false teachings.



Christians are always accused because their faith is so strong.  All religions pass judgment to some degree...Sorry if I wasn't clear! I was raised in a Catholic Muslim household. Not bean pie Muslim, but Arabic Muslim. So my beliefs are different. But I'm enlightened and inspired by those who walk the walk and talk the talk!  All of you seem to embrace the Word and that's a true testimony right there.


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## Vintagecoilylocks (Jun 18, 2005)

JamcianGurl,

   I understood you,  And I am not trying to convert you but I believe God of the bible is the one I believe.  Buddha rejected the existence of and felt no need to be subserviant to a God.  Ghandhi believed in reincarnation and not the idea of being with God in heaven but eventually becoming a God through multiple rebirths and deaths.  He also attributes his life improvements to himself and not God.  So as a spiritual walk these faiths are not like Protestant or Catholic.   What reward do you speak of?  Ghandhi knew what he wanted why would the God of Abraham grant him anything different.  Hindu's are not seeking to be with my God.  He will not force them to be with him either.  The belief or disbelief in the eternal living God is more than a denominational difference of Christianity.  That was the point I just wanted to tell you.   A Hindu would tell you he does not want the rewards from the Christian God.   A Buddhist believes the God of the bible does not exist.


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (Jun 18, 2005)

Oprah may not want to give Jesus His props now but one day she will. Its only a matter of time before all will.

*(Phi 2:10) So at the name of Jesus everyone will bow down, those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth.*

*(Phi 2:11) And to the glory of God the Father everyone will openly agree, "Jesus Christ is Lord!"*


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## pebbles (Jun 18, 2005)

ladydee36330 said:
			
		

> Oprah may not want to give Jesus His props now but one day she will. Its only a matter of time before all will.
> 
> *(Phi 2:10) So at the name of Jesus everyone will bow down, those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth.*
> 
> *(Phi 2:11) And to the glory of God the Father everyone will openly agree, "Jesus Christ is Lord!"*



Let the church say AMEN!


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## JamericanGurl (Jun 18, 2005)

Vintagecoilylocks said:
			
		

> JamcianGurl,
> 
> I understood you,  And I am not trying to convert you but I believe God of the bible is the one I believe.  Buddha rejected the existence of and felt no need to be subserviant to a God.  Ghandhi believed in reincarnation and not the idea of being with God in heaven but eventually becoming a God through multiple rebirths and deaths.  He also attributes his life improvements to himself and not God.  So as a spiritual walk these faiths are not like Protestant or Catholic.   What reward do you speak of?  Ghandhi knew what he wanted why would the God of Abraham grant him anything different.  Hindu's are not seeking to be with my God.  He will not force them to be with him either.  The belief or disbelief in the eternal living God is more than a denominational difference of Christianity.  That was the point I just wanted to tell you.   A Hindu would tell you he does not want the rewards from the Christian God.   A Buddhist believes the God of the bible does not exist.



Ok I fully understand you...But that wasn't my point. My point was those other religions believe in a higher being. I never stated they believe in God. Of course your not trying to convert you are simply spreading the word...There's a big difference! Plus as a servant you are doing what's expected ...teaching.

When i say I'm not Christian...That simply means that I don't possess the necessary components...Like turning the other cheek, not drinking, not cursing, and forgiveness. Like I said I believe in God and even historians cannot dismiss that Jesus walked! I just believe, that before I claim anything pure...I need to come with clean hands.  To me back sliding is not an option! Again JMO!


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## Poohbear (Jun 19, 2005)

JamericanGurl said:
			
		

> Ok I fully understand you...But that wasn't my point. My point was those other religions believe in a higher being. I never stated they believe in God. Of course your not trying to convert you are simply spreading the word...There's a big difference! Plus as a servant you are doing what's expected ...teaching.
> 
> *When i say I'm not Christian...That simply means that I don't possess the necessary components...Like turning the other cheek, not drinking, not cursing, and forgiveness.* Like I said I believe in God and even historians cannot dismiss that Jesus walked! I just believe, that before I claim anything pure...I need to come with clean hands. To me back sliding is not an option! Again JMO!


This is where Jesus comes into play with the Christian faith... no Christian is perfect. Everyone has sinned and fallen short of God's glory. Jesus died on the cross for the punishment of our sins. When we sin, we must ask God for forgiveness of our sins.


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## DragonPearl (Jun 19, 2005)

JamericanGurl said:
			
		

> I don't believe that a Being so beautiful could condem those who do God like things just because they don't use the King James Bible as their guide to salvation. ....JMO!


Gurl, that is what I was trying to say all along. 

I honestly believe that some people can't help but project their own small mindedness onto God. They think God and Salvation are restricted and limited and contained in only 1 book, and that's it. Everything else is the work of Satan. Wouldn't that make Satan the most powerful being in the universe, more powerful even than God?


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## sky_blu (Jun 19, 2005)

Ok I seen the clip and I dont think she was trying to discredit Jesus at all. I think she was just saying if youve never heard of Jesus *ever in life* but you live and follow principles that people (Christians) are suppose to do by living life like Jesus would want you to live, can you still get into heaven?? This is a very diverse world and the simple fact is some people dont believe in Jesus and/or Jehovah. Their god might be Buda (sp?), Muslim,  or practice some other faith. I personally do believe in God or Jesus but I dont pressure my religion or faith onto someone who doesnt or make judgement because in the end only one opinion matters. I think as long as your are strong in your faith it shouldnt matter what anybody else thinks about it because we are human and everybody has an opinion and a right to have their own opinion. I also think its sad for anybody to idolize anything other than God. I have alot of role models and inspirations but I dont idolize anybody.


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## pebbles (Jun 19, 2005)

Jessy55 said:
			
		

> Gurl, that is what I was trying to say all along.
> 
> I honestly believe that some people can't help but project their own small mindedness onto God. They think God and Salvation are restricted and limited and contained in only 1 book, and that's it. Everything else is the work of Satan. Wouldn't that make Satan the most powerful being in the universe, more powerful even than God?



If following what the Word of God says means that some of us are small minded, I for one am more than willing to wear that label. As a Christian, there IS only ONE BOOK that matters as it pertains to the will of God. I don't find it small minded to stick to that. As I stated previously, too many people want to water down what the Word says, and give the gospel according to their understanding or how they think it should be. I just choose not to deviate from what I've read and believe to be what God wants. I guess it will always amaze me that there are Christians who believe that Jesus is not the only way to God, but I'll try to accept that's how they feel, though honestly, I'll never agree with them.


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## DragonPearl (Jun 19, 2005)

Vintagecoilylocks said:
			
		

> It seems Christians are not allowed to have their own belief with out being accused of excluding others from Christian belief.


It can also be said that Christians are not allowing other Christians to have their own belief without excluding them from Christian faith. Christianity is a very complex religion. There are so many denominations under the Christian umbrella, all claiming to be Christians. Christian can't even agree on who is Christian. Many Christians don't believe that Catholics are Christians; this has come up repeatedly on this forum. There are many christians who don't consider Jehovah Witnesses, or Mormons to be Christians...

Oh, and I am sure, the majority of those who post in this forum don't even consider me Christian because I don't Bible thump. It's okay with me. It is not up to human beings who determine who is Christian, it is up to God Almighty. I believe Jesus Christ is an incarnation of God. I am a *Christ*ian, not a *Bibl*ian. That means, I don't believe every single thing I read in the Bible. I also believe that Buddha is an incarnation of God. If you look at the deeper teachings of these 2 beings, *to me*, it's the same. The path of Compassion. The path of selfless love. God takes different forms and different incarnations to reach different people, but the deeper message is still the same. 

Yes, there are Christians who think and feel like me. I have met them. I have fellowshiped with them. They are out there. Maybe not on this forum, but they are out there.


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## pebbles (Jun 19, 2005)

I honestly believe that folks should be careful NOT to reduce Christianity to a "feeling." Yes, there are differences between the varying denominations of Christianity, but the one constant between all of us is that ALL denominations of Christianity believe Jesus Christ is Lord, and NONE of them adhere to the belief that there is more than one way to the Father. Jehova's Witnesses do not believe that Jesus is God. They believe He is the Son of God. So of course there are going to be some questions about them from those who know Him to be God.

If you consider yourself Christian, good. Know what you believe, why you believe it, and where your beliefs come from. And as long as you feel you feel you can explain yourself to The Father, (because He will ask all of us to explain ourselves), that's all that matters. My beliefs are coming straight from His Holy Word, and that's what I'm telling Him.


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## JamericanGurl (Jun 19, 2005)

Jessy55 said:
			
		

> It can also be said that Christians are not allowing other Christians to have their own belief without excluding them from Christian faith. Christianity is a very complex religion. There are so many denominations under the Christian umbrella, all claiming to be Christians. Christian can't even agree on who is Christian. Many Christians don't believe that Catholics are Christians; this has come up repeatedly on this forum. There are many christians who don't consider Jehovah Witnesses, or Mormons to be Christians...
> 
> Oh, and I am sure, the majority of those who post in this forum don't even consider me Christian because I don't Bible thump. It's okay with me. It is not up to human beings who determine who is Christian, it is up to God Almighty. I believe Jesus Christ is an incarnation of God. I am a *Christ*ian, not a *Bibl*ian. That means, I don't believe every single thing I read in the Bible. I also believe that Buddha is an incarnation of God. If you look at the deeper teachings of these 2 beings, *to me*, it's the same. The path of Compassion. The path of selfless love. God takes different forms and different incarnations to reach different people, but the deeper message is still the same.
> 
> Yes, there are Christians who think and feel like me. I have met them. I have fellowshiped with them. They are out there. Maybe not on this forum, but they are out there.


I have attended many Interfaith conferences with some very renowned Ministers, Rabbi's, and other men of Faith have attended. I can tell you that they respect and have friendships with one another. They work hard for a better understanding of each other and they frequently visit each others Temple, Churches, and etc.

To my detriment I just can't believe a man like MLK could use Ghandi as his inspiration...If his spirit wasn't strong!

Jessy, I'm glad you get where I was coming from. I too get confused as to who's more Christian and who's not? * I thank those who have shared the Word with me in this post and I respect your feelings.* However, my heart tells me there may be more than one way? I could be wrong? Again, that may be to my detriment?  I believe God has a place for those who chose the path of self-less love and do good works! Whether they call him by his name or not....Love and kindness for your fellow man will not go unrewarded...At least that's what I believe? I'm openly saying...I don't know? I'm not confused? I'm very clear on how I feel and what warms my heart!

*As for Oprah???? Who knows what she meant? *

What I do know is you ladies provide inspiration for all!


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## pebbles (Jun 19, 2005)

There is a passage in the bible that I actually use in my signature that comes from Proverbs 14:12 which says, "There is a way which seems right to a man, but it's end is the way of death." Again I say, please be careful not to allow your heart or your feelings to lead you. You may feel something is right, but line it up with the Word of God and see what it says. None of this has anything to do with one person being more Christian than the next. There isn't one living, breathing Christian on the face of this earth who is right with God, NOT ONE! The bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of His Glory. Having said that, you can be in sin and know that you are not doing the will of the father, and you should be strong enough to admit that you're not right with Him. And at least you know what you MUST do to get right with God.  What's dangerous is being in sin or leaning on what you feel is right and making excuses as to why God will understand it or forgive it. It's in love that I say those who think like this are in danger of not pleasing the Father, because if you think like this, you won't take the necessary steps to get right before Him. :Rose:


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## TJD3 (Jun 19, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> There is a passage in the bible that I actually use in my signature that comes from Proverbs 14:12 which says, "There is a way which seems right to a man, but it's end is the way of death." Again I say, please be careful not to allow your heart or your feelings to lead you. You may feel something is right, but line it up with the Word of God and see what it says. None of this has anything to do with one person being more Christian than the next. There isn't one living, breathing Christian on the face of this earth who is right with God, NOT ONE! The bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of His Glory. Having said that, you can be in sin and know that you are not doing the will of the father, and you should be strong enough to admit that you're not right with Him. And at least you know what you MUST do to get right with God. What's dangerous is being in sin or leaning on what you feel is right and making excuses as to why God will understand it or forgive it. It's in love that I say those who think like this are in danger of not pleasing the Father, because if you think like this, you won't take the necessary steps to get right before Him. :Rose:


 
Amen .  The road is not easy.


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 19, 2005)

okay, I want to address something really quick.

Christians worship Jesus because *he died for our sins*. The Bible does not stress that Jesus "was a good person." While he *WAS* that, what's bigger is that he is *SAVIOR.* Everyone wants to talk about how "good Jesus was" not realizing that his *SACRIFICE* is what made him WHO HE IS. Gandi was a "good person". Budda was "a good person". But neither of these people were God, they surely weren't SINLESS, and they most DEFINITELY weren't *Savior*. Putting them and Jesus in the same boat is an insult to who God is and what Jesus did for the world. Christ dying for the sins of the world is what *sets him apart* from the rest. *THAT* is why Christian's worship Him and *only* him. 

I'm really surprised at how this is so widely misunderstood by people that call themselves "Christians". Jesus is the only way to God *because* of his sacrifice. I am saved *because* I've excepted Christ's atonement for my sins. NOT because I do good deeds, or because I worship someone who did good deeds. The Bible makes it clear that deeds *are not* what saves people. So why is there so much discussion about deeds here??? Christ is Savior and he's the only way to God because he died on the cross. Period. 

As for those that have died and not heard the gospel--Honestly, I'm not concerned about that because I know God is JUST. What ever happens to those people in eternity will be JUST, and I'm sure God has that all figured out. To reiterate what the lady in white said (ha), Jesus will not come back untill the gospel has been preached all over the world. Anybody wanna have Jesus come back? Get busy.


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## Honeyhips (Jun 19, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> There is a passage in the bible that I actually use in my signature that comes from Proverbs 14:12 which says, "There is a way which seems right to a man, but it's end is the way of death." Again I say, please be careful not to allow your heart or your feelings to lead you. You may feel something is right, but line it up with the Word of God and see what it says. None of this has anything to do with one person being more Christian than the next. :Rose:


 This was good.


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## Lena_1961 (Jun 19, 2005)

June 19, 2005


I don't follow Oprah or watch her shows much, but I tend to understand and AGREE with her IF that indeed is still her opinion about God, Christ, Relilgion and spirituality. 

My Mom is African-American and one of her BEST friends for over 40 years is a 78 year old Jewish woman, and she does NOT believe in Christ for obvious reasons, because Orthadox Jews DON'T acknowledge God's Son Jesus Christ. Yet, this wonderful woman, who has done a GREAT deal of POSITIVE work IN, WITH and FOR the African-American community, especially during the 1960's Civil Rights days, and even BEFORE that, and what my Mom's best friend is NOT going to heaven? This woman helped my mother and used to give my Mom work and feed us and pay my mother's bills when we ran out of money or when mom was struggling to make ends meet and she even helped pay for one of my sister's to be born. IMHO, That woman in the white dress addressing Oprah  in the video feed I saw is just TOO strident for ME, and I would LOVE to ask HER if she has ever done ANYTHING to advance Civil Rights or rights in general in this country for ANYONE like my Mom's friend who does NOT believe in Jesus Christ? Father GOD is the judge, NOT HER. She is here on earth with the rest of us, God is above in Heaven...GOD is an all-knowing God, a God of Tender Mercies and that is WHY I have always believed that GOD judges EACH of us on our OWN merits and God knows each of our hearts TRULY and loves us ALL becasue we are his children..JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION   ....

See, I believe that there ARE many pathways to GOD and the Kingdom of Heaven and we ALL should be allowed to find OUR own corrrect path to God and to Christ IF that ultimately IS the what we choose--Now,  I don't consider myself a 'New Ager' or whatever that is, but I call that MY belief system MY belief system and believe that the ONLY thing that should matter is IF we LIVE a good life and walk the talk, treat others RIGHT and HELP other's when there is a NEED to do so. What about Agnostics or Athiests who have done good works in their lives, for MOST of their lives for others because they felt and thought it was the RIGHT thing to do , help other people, other humans? What, God is going to say to them when they die, "Sorry, you guys didn't nor did you ever believe in MY son Jesus Christ, and even though you were model citizens and helped MANY of my earthly children, you don't get to come into the Kingdom." Yet, a person who has been a VERY BAD person for MOST of their lives does eventually come to accept God and Jesus Christ and spirituality LATER in their lives and what, God tells them after they die "Okay, you were a HORRIBLE person for most of your life, but since you DID accept MY son Jesus Christ and my teachings and accepted spirituality and lived 'devoutely' in the last 5 years of your life, you get to come into the Kingdom, Welcome." MY personal belief is that GOD judges EACH person of TRUE religious conviction or that person's WHOLE life and 'works'  they have done and the way they have lived their lives. See, to ME,  this 'group judge' way of judging people just doesn't seem right or fair-- NOTHING in life is nor will it EVER be BLACK OR WHITE....But that IS MY OWN OPINION THOUGH, and we ALL do often discuss religion on this forum intelligently and agree to disagree with one another, yet LOVE and support one another as 'sisters' and accept everyone for having their OWN opinions and thoughts about God, Christ, Religion and spirituality. See the lovely ladies on the LHCF, we 'roll like dat.'   ..

Later


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## mahogany (Jun 19, 2005)

Lena_1961 said:
			
		

> June 19, 2005
> 
> 
> I don't follow Oprah or watch her shows much, but I tend to understand and AGREE with her IF that indeed is still her opinion aobut God, Christ, Relilgion and spirituality.
> ...



Why would GOD let a person in Heaven if they did not believe that his son died for OUR sins? I mean seriously is that too much to ask for, just to believe? In the bible it states this numerous times that if you don't acknowledge him then you will not have everlasting life PERIOD. The scripture cannot be broken !!


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 19, 2005)

Some scripture about works relating to my last post.

John 6

28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, *"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."*

Romans 4

    1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[a]
*Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.* 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 
* 7"Blessed are they 
      whose transgressions are forgiven, 
      whose sins are covered. *
    8Blessed is the man 
      whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

 Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— *9not by works, so that no one can boast.*


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## shawniegee (Jun 19, 2005)

This clip is soooo old. Look at the set!!! I'm thinkin' it's a year old maybe two.  I don't even remeber this set.  

Anyway, 

I remember Oprah saying when she was going through her "meat trial" that she called on Jesus. She told her audience, when you go though your gonna call Jesus, or something like that. I remember because I was shocked she mentioned the name Jesus.  

I don't think we can determine what she believes based on this clip. I rember when she was going through her New Age phase, and I stopped watching. The whole show was getting weird to me anyway.  But that's just me.

I think Christians in general waste too much time worrying about what others believe, instead of focusing on our individual walks with Christ.  I believe we all have things to hear from God. When I read the New Testament, I'm like whoa, Jesus had a technique for winning souls. Debate was never one. I think sometimes debating can be a detraction form HIS voice.  He talks to those who would listen, but he never chased those who didn't. He never said stay away from such and such, for He's not saved.  I believe that if we are truly walking in Christ our light will shine.  The Word says, "If I be lifted I will draw all men unto me."  

What I'm trying to say here, if you worried about Oprah then pray for her or send an email asking her about her salvation. If you really believe that you have a word from God to deliever to her, then find her, for you are led by the Holy Spirit. But talking about Oprah's faith on a hair care board, in my opinion is fruitless.  Plus we'll probably only see her on channel 7.

That's just my two cents.


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## pebbles (Jun 19, 2005)

I have no worries about Oprah. I can't help her. My concern is ANY Christian who says that they believe there is more than one way to the Father. That makes me wonder. . .


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## secretdiamond (Jun 19, 2005)

shawniegee said:
			
		

> This clip is soooo old. Look at the set!!! I'm thinkin' it's a year old maybe two.  I don't even remeber this set.
> 
> Anyway,
> 
> ...



_*BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN.*_  Thank you soooooo much for writing that.   It DESPERATELY needed to be said the way you said it.  I think we ALL needed to read that and actually put things into perspective. The back and forth and the "I'm right and you're wrong" and the "my beliefs are better than yours so therefore I will be saved because I am defending my Jesus" attitude was kinda getting frustrating.  

Nonetheless, I am glad that this post was started b/c the different points of view were eye-opening in many ways.

Thanks again for that post.


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (Jun 19, 2005)

Joh 14:6

*(ALT) Jesus says to him, "_I_ am the Way and the Truth and the Life! No one comes to the Father except through [or, by means of] Me! *

*(ASV) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me. *

*(CEV) "I am the way, the truth, and the life!" Jesus answered. "Without me, no one can go to the Father. *

*(Geneva) Iesus sayd vnto him, I am that Way, and that Trueth, and that Life. No man commeth vnto the Father, but by me. *

*(GNB) Jesus answered him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one goes to the Father except by me. *

*(JPS) *

*(KJV+) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.*

*(KJVA) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. *

*(MSG) Jesus said, "I am the Road, also the Truth, also the Life. No one gets to the Father apart from me.*


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## Vintagecoilylocks (Jun 19, 2005)

Jessy 55,

   What I am saying is other religions have specifics of their faith and do not include others saying that they will still get the same as they do.  Budda is not God, he did not call himself God nor did he ascribe to the exsistance of a supreme God to worship.  Yet you insist he is an incarnation of God.  How do you take someone elses faith and change it.  Buddha was a human man.  A prince of India. He knew what Judism/Christianity(The faith and promise of Christ was around thousands of years before Buddha) taught and rejected it as it was he freedom to do so.  He would disagree with your version of him.  He was not seeking a path to God nor did he teach that that is what you are to do.  So how can buddism be a path to the Judao/ Christian God? So I do not attemp to place on others the precepts of Christianity if they have openly rejected it.  That to me disrespectd their right to choose what they want to believe.   So if he has no belief in heaven or God of the Jews or Christians, and has choose not to who are we to say that well anyway he will get the same blessings as a Christian from God.  Budda did not believe that a Judao/Christian would ever get to God because he didn't believe in God almighty.


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## Vintagecoilylocks (Jun 19, 2005)

For me it is not a matter of worrying about what others believe but I was not raised in a strong christian home.  My church was luke warm at best.  My two brothers refused to join the Church and my sister only did it because of my mother.  I started seeking God knowing it had to be something more than what I was exposed to.  My brothers went to Islam and tried to recruit me. They were taught Christians were on their way to hell if they did not follow Muhammed.  (They have since fallen away from that to.) I was young but was driven to seek the true God.  So I had to study and learn.  With so much anti Christianity and anty everything else I had to know all to be able to discern the false and empty from the true.  Some may find God through the teachings of others and family, some through study,  some through prayer, those are the multipaths to God.  Not through disbelief in Him.  If you seek him you shall find him.  Knowing what others believe can help a Christian witness as Paul did.  He pointed out the gaps and then showed them what they were truelly seeking.  But there will be many who reject it.  Jesus said when he sent the seventy.  If they reject you move on to the next town.  We are called to witness and present the Gospel of Our Lord and Savior to the world daily and not just by example.  It is not a Christian denying others the promise, in most cases they are rejecting it themselves.  There are converts from all over the world who had onced believed every religion of this earth.  We celabratedpentacost today and when they spoke in the tongues of other nation it was to teach the Gospel of Christ.
      In many Islamic countries a christian is not alllowed to identify themselves as such.  In Turkey a church cannot look like a church.  That doesnot sound like other faiths giveing the same due to Christians.  They restrict and persecute them, and consider them the enemy.  12 Churches bombed in Iraq and several other consistantly under attack.  You cannot wear an exposed cross in Saudia Arabia.  They know what Christianity is and they reject it.  How can it all be the same path.


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## Enchantmt (Jun 19, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> okay, I want to address something really quick.
> 
> Christians worship Jesus because *he died for our sins*. The Bible does not stress that Jesus "was a good person." While he *WAS* that, what's bigger is that he is *SAVIOR.* Everyone wants to talk about how "good Jesus was" not realizing that his *SACRIFICE* is what made him WHO HE IS. Gandi was a "good person". Budda was "a good person". But neither of these people were God, they surely weren't SINLESS, and they most DEFINITELY weren't *Savior*. Putting them and Jesus in the same boat is an insult to who God is and what Jesus did for the world. Christ dying for the sins of the world is what *sets him apart* from the rest. *THAT* is why Christian's worship Him and *only* him.
> 
> ...



AND LET THE CHURCH SHOUT "AMEN"!!

Lets get back to the basics of Christianity. Not in reference to other religions, what religion is right or wrong, but the basis of the Christian faith and what it means *IF YOU CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN*. 

 Its not just someone who follows the teaching of Christ in respect of good works or deeds. The basis of scripture is that Jesus is the *SON OF GOD*, not of a *human* father. He *had * to come and sacrifice himself because there was a penalty for mans disobedience that *we couldnt pay*. We were *spiritually* dead, unable to fellowship with God because He is holy and we were in sin because of the act of Adam. That there is a* REAL * enemy (Satan) that seeks our destruction and a *REAL and LIVING God * who loves us, guides us, provides for us,  *WILL EVENTUALLY JUDGE SINNERS*, and wants to have a relationship and fellowship with us.

 Our fellowship is *only* possible because of Jesus dying for our sins and paying the penalty so that we can stand sinless before God and fellowship with Him. That not somones *OPINION * from this hairboard, that is scripture contained within the Holy Bible, which is the *BASIS* for the Christian faith. Yes, there are some debate over interpretations of certain scriptures due to the language and culture of the time, HOWEVER the Bible is *VERY CLEAR* about *JESUS*, His role in our lives, our responsiblity to Him, the penalty for sin, and the uselessness of good works as a tool for salvation. If there were another path available *JESUS WOULDNT HAVE HAD TO COME AND DIE IN THE FIRST PLACE.* (not screaming...emphasizing  ) How can someone call themselves a Christian but _rebuke the very scriptures that support their faith??  _ We are called to worship and serve Christ, to praise God. We are called to do good deeds but, as others have pointed out, good deeds dont save you. Also remember we are sinful because we have Adams sin nature. It doesnt mean you go around doing evil to folx on a regular basis. You are born in sin, only the sacrifice of Jesus saves. 

Everybody wants to be politcally correct nowdays. No one wants to step on anyones toes, or risk conflict, or risk being labled a fanatic because they make a stand. *WELL GOD IS NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT*. He said YOU WILL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.  He said His Son is THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIGHT. Gods people have always been set apart. We are not supposed to be of the world, we are supposed to be a light to those in darkness. 



			
				shawniegee said:
			
		

> I think Christians in general waste too much time worrying about what others believe, instead of focusing on our individual walks with Christ.  I believe we all have things to hear from God. When I read the New Testament, I'm like whoa, Jesus had a technique for winning souls. Debate was never one. I think sometimes debating can be a detraction form HIS voice.  He talks to those who would listen, but he never chased those who didn't. He never said stay away from such and such, for He's not saved.  I believe that if we are truly walking in Christ our light will shine.  The Word says, "If I be lifted I will draw all men unto me."
> 
> What I'm trying to say here, if you worried about Oprah then pray for her or send an email asking her about her salvation. If you really believe that you have a word from God to deliever to her, then find her, for you are led by the Holy Spirit. But talking about Oprah's faith on a hair care board, in my opinion is fruitless.  Plus we'll probably only see her on channel 7.
> 
> That's just my two cents.




I agree, that more folx need to mind their own business, and I agree if someone is worried about her salvation they should pray for her. God is NOT powerless and shes the perfect person to have a conversion and affect the world with her viewing audience here and overseas. That said, it is our *responsiblity* as Christians to correct misinformation if we can so that others do not stumble and fall. You can live as well as you want, be as kind as you like, however, *IF YOU HAVE NOT ACCEPTED JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR IT MEANS NADA*. There are so many scripture on this how can someone who is a Christian be confused on this basic fact?

 Even the most evil man is capable of a kindness. No one is 100% evil or 100% good. Not even saved folx. We are only forgiven for when we do fall. This used to be a stumbling block for me because I thought being Christian meant that I was perfect and when I couldnt be perfect I condemned myself. I judged others because I saw someone who proclaimed to be Christian do something that was definiately UNchristian.  I have grown and I know better now. I know the love and forgiveness of God and can extend it to others. God IS good, God IS love, God is all these things, but He is also JUST, RIGHTEOUS and SINLESS and in order to fellowship with Him we must become this way. We become this way by accepting Christ, and confessing our sins, so that when God sees us He doesnt see our sin, He sees our righteousness through Christ. Everyone keeps asking how can God judge what He created, what He loves. Look at Satan and figure it out. He was loved by God, but he disobeyed, rebelled, *and is going to be judged for it.* 

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. *IF SOMEONE CALLS THEMSELVES CHRISTIAN AND STILL CLAIMS THERE ARE MANY PATHS TO GOD, EITHER THEY ARE DECEIVED OR DECEIVING YOU. *


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## Lena_1961 (Jun 19, 2005)

June 19, 2005


Mahogony   

I understand what you are saying about the Scripture, but what about JEWISH people or other religions that DON'T believe in Jesus Christ? The Buddist religion has been around for thousands of years, well before the Christian religion and Shintoism also, and I don't feel that the people who follow those particular types of religions or spiritualities will never believe as you do that Jesus IS the son of God, nor will they change the way THEY feel to suit 'Christians,' and I don't expect them to either. Just like I wouldn't want THEM to tell me how to believe either. I mean, MOST Orthodox Jews DON'T believe in a heaven OR hell, and that your heaven or hell is down here on earth--as you are living it...That is their interpretation...I cannot and wouldn't ask THEM to stop believing as THEY wish to believe...I believe that as long as people are GOOD and treat others well, then I will leave everything else up to God and let HIM handle it   ...

By the way Mahogony, have you ever talked to an Orthodox Jewish person? Not a Christian Jew, but an Orthodox Jew? Don't bring up Jesus to them....They are NOT hearing it because they think Jesus was more human THAN divine and had faults and was more like US down here on earth--HUMAN....

Later


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## pebbles (Jun 19, 2005)

Vintagecoilylocks said:
			
		

> Jessy 55,
> 
> What I am saying is other religions have specifics of their faith and do not include others saying that they will still get the same as they do. * Budda is not God, he did not call himself God nor did he ascribe to the exsistance of a supreme God to worship.  Yet you insist he is an incarnation of God.*  How do you take someone elses faith and change it. * Buddha was a human man.  A prince of India.* He knew what Christianity taught and rejected it as it was he freedom to do so.  He would disagree with your version of him.  *He was not seeking a path to God nor did he teach that that is what you are to do.  So how can buddism be a path to the judao/ Christian God? *So I do not attemp to place on others the precepts of Christianity if they have openly rejected it.  That to me disrespectd their right to choose what they want to believe.   So if he has no belief in heaven or God of the Jews or Christians, and has choose not to who are we to say that well anyway he will get the same blessings as a Christian from God. * Budda did not believe that a Christian would ever get to God because he didn't believe in God almighty.*



Thank-you!


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## pebbles (Jun 19, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> okay, I want to address something really quick.
> 
> Christians worship Jesus because *he died for our sins*. The Bible does not stress that Jesus "was a good person." While he *WAS* that, what's bigger is that he is *SAVIOR.* Everyone wants to talk about how "good Jesus was" not realizing that his *SACRIFICE* is what made him WHO HE IS. Gandi was a "good person". Budda was "a good person". But neither of these people were God, they surely weren't SINLESS, and they most DEFINITELY weren't *Savior*. Putting them and Jesus in the same boat is an insult to who God is and what Jesus did for the world. Christ dying for the sins of the world is what *sets him apart* from the rest. *THAT* is why Christian's worship Him and *only* him.
> 
> ...




Great post!


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## pebbles (Jun 19, 2005)

Vintagecoilylocks said:
			
		

> . . . * We are called to witness and present the Gospel of Our Lord and Savior to the world daily and not just by example.  It is not a Christian denying others the promise, in most cases they are rejecting it themselves. * . . .
> In many Islamic countries a christian is not alllowed to identify themselves as such.  In Turkey a church cannot look like a church.  That doesnot sound like other faiths giveing the same due to Christians.  They restrict and persecute them, and consider them the enemy.  12 Churches bombed in Iraq and several other consistantly under attack.  You cannot wear an exposed cross in Saudia Arabia.  They know what Christianity is and they reject it. * How can it all be the same path.*



One wonders. . . Another great post!


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## pebbles (Jun 19, 2005)

Enchantmt said:
			
		

> AND LET THE CHURCH SHOUT "AMEN"!!
> 
> Lets get back to the basics of Christianity. Not in reference to other religions, what religion is right or wrong, but the basis of the Christian faith and what it means *IF YOU CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN*.
> 
> ...




Wonderful!


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 19, 2005)

Enchantmt said:
			
		

> AND LET THE CHURCH SHOUT "AMEN"!!
> 
> Lets get back to the basics of Christianity. Not in reference to other religions, what religion is right or wrong, but the basis of the Christian faith and what it means *IF YOU CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN*.
> 
> ...



*YES! YES! AMEN!* COMMON somebody!!!


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## pebbles (Jun 19, 2005)

Lena_1961 said:
			
		

> June 19, 2005
> 
> 
> Mahogony
> ...




If the Orthodox Jews don't want to change their minds about Jesus, that's ok. All I can say is that, like it or not, one day every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.


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## shawniegee (Jun 19, 2005)

I just want to remind everyone that we don't know for sure what Oprah believes. This clip is soooo old, and no one would even see it if it wasn't on that particular web site.  I think the worse thing to do is to dig up an old clip, that contains a message we don't want to get across, it completely defeats the purpose. Example, if we don't want to see sex, then we put a sexual clip on a website and say don't look at this, aren't we just adding to the problem???


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## pebbles (Jun 20, 2005)

shawniegee said:
			
		

> I just want to remind everyone that we don't know for sure what Oprah believes. This clip is soooo old, and no one would even see it if it wasn't on that particular web site.  I think the worse thing to do is to dig up an old clip, that contains a message we don't want to get across, it completely defeats the purpose. Example, if we don't want to see sex, then we put a sexual clip on a website and say don't look at this, aren't we just adding to the problem???



This goes beyond what Oprah's personal beliefs may be. She is free to have whatever beliefs she chooses. The question now is a general one: How can any Christian who believes in the word of God and believes that Jesus is the way to the Father, also believe that there are many different paths to God? You cannot serve two masters. I think there should probably be a distinction between people who know *of* Christianity but don't believe in it completely, and those who do believe in it. That makes a world of difference in my mind.


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## Sweet C (Jun 20, 2005)

Wow, this thread has blown up! There has been some great comments made



			
				Enchantmt said:
			
		

> Everybody wants to be politcally correct nowdays. No one wants to step on anyones toes, or risk conflict, or risk being labled a fanatic because they make a stand. *WELL GOD IS NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT*. He said YOU WILL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. He said His Son is THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIGHT. Gods people have always been set apart. We are not supposed to be of the world, we are supposed to be a light to those in darkness.
> 
> I've said it once, and I'll say it again. *IF SOMEONE CALLS THEMSELVES CHRISTIAN AND STILL CLAIMS THERE ARE MANY PATHS TO GOD, EITHER THEY ARE DECEIVED OR DECEIVING YOU. *


 
I think this pretty much sums it up for me.  Its kinda interesting how people expect Christians to be PC, but not everyone else.  You won't hear a Muslim say you can get to God anyway but through Allah, b/c according to their word Allah is the only way.  So why should a Christian say that their are many paths to God, when according to God's Word Jesus is the Way Truth and Life?


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 20, 2005)

shawniegee said:
			
		

> I just want to remind everyone that we don't know for sure what Oprah believes. This clip is soooo old, and no one would even see it if it wasn't on that particular web site.  I think the worse thing to do is to dig up an old clip, that contains a message we don't want to get across, it completely defeats the purpose. Example, if we don't want to see sex, then we put a sexual clip on a website and say don't look at this, aren't we just adding to the problem???




The purpose wasn't to dig up dirt of any sort or to SLAM Oprah. I watch Oprah, but I disagree on a LOT of what she says. I know that this may not be what Oprah believes *now*, but the fact that no one KNOWS *what* she believes is a problem to me....Especially when you're as popular as her. If she is infact a Christian, I wish she would just say it instead of people speculating.

Anyway, I'm glad I posted the clip because it generated a topic that REALLY needed to be discussed--"Is Jesus the only way to God. And if so, why?"


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 20, 2005)

Sweet C said:
			
		

> Wow, this thread has blown up! There has been some great comments made
> 
> 
> 
> I think this pretty much sums it up for me.  Its kinda interesting how people expect Christians to be PC, but not everyone else.  You won't hear a Muslim say you can get to God anyway but through Allah, b/c according to their word Allah is the only way.  So why should a Christian say that their are many paths to God, when according to God's Word Jesus is the Way Truth and Life?




Agreed. Enchant summed it up perfectly. This was a good discussion.


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## shawniegee (Jun 20, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> This goes beyond what Oprah's personal beliefs may be. She is free to have whatever beliefs she chooses. The question now is a general one: How can any <a href='http://consumeralertsystem.com/cas/zx-hclick.php?hid=165' target='_blank'>christian</a> who believes in the word of God and believes that Jesus is the way to the Father, also believe that there are many different paths to God? You cannot serve two masters. I think there should probably be a distinction between people who know *of* <a href='http://consumeralertsystem.com/cas/zx-hclick.php?hid=166' target='_blank'>christianity</a> but don't believe in it completely, and those who do believe in it. That makes a world of difference in my mind.



I see what your saying Pebbles. I'm just saying that she could have changed her beliefs since then.  I agree totally with what your saying.  I've seen it happen time and time again. When people think their above God, He'll give them enough whoopins (myself included), to draw us closer to HIM. I don't believe you can serve to gods.  I don't believe there different paths to God.  I'm just saying why give attention to something that normally no one would see.


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## aqualung (Jun 24, 2005)

If salvation and a nice afterlife are guaranteed exclusively through Christ, then *only* people living during a period in human history AND in a geographical location that exposed them to Judeo-Christianity have a blessed hope.

Ex: There were thousands of years in history where people in regions of, say, Africa and Asia didn't know Christianity because it wasn't developed yet or because missionaries hadn't reached them yet. Are *all* those people damned because they didn't know Christ (specifically), even if they followed the dictates of their conscience and whatever moral code they knew? Do we assume that God never tried to guide them to live well?

Some denominations use Christ's quote about having "other sheep not of this fold" to explain how ancient bushmen or children who died too young to understand religion but who are/were are moral as they knew how to be can get into heaven anyhow.

* Christianity accomodates the Old Testament Hebrews who were looking forward to Christ and anticipating his arrival.* They get out of jail free. We'll let them into our heaven because they had the same hope as we do. (Nevermind the fact that, despite centuries of cultural prep work, a whole lot of Jews didn't accept him during or after his arrival.) 

*I hope Oprah is right. *There are many rationales to morality. There were MORAL people before Christ that did not know of him, and MORAL people in EVERY age afterward that do not. It's most fair to judge people on an individual basis.

Interesting discussion along these lines (different rationales of morality): PBS series "Question of God: C.S. Lewis and Sigmund Freud" (DVD and book)


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## Poohbear (Jun 24, 2005)

You know what? I wonder if those people who have never ever heard of Jesus nor God will have that chance to believe in Him before they die and/or when Jesus returns...





			
				megonw said:
			
		

> If salvation and a nice afterlife are guaranteed exclusively through Christ, then *only* people living during a period in human history AND in a geographical location that exposed them to Judeo-Christianity have a blessed hope.
> 
> Ex: There were thousands of years in history where people in regions of, say, Africa and Asia didn't know Christianity because it wasn't developed yet or because missionaries hadn't reached them yet. Are *all* those people damned because they didn't know Christ (specifically), even if they followed the dictates of their conscience and whatever moral code they knew? Do we assume that God never tried to guide them to live well?
> 
> ...


----------



## aqualung (Jun 24, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> MonaLisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What does the chunk from Romans mean?
How to reconcile it with[size=-1] John 14:6?

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the  Father except through Me." -- John 14:6 (NKJV) [/size]


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## JuJuBoo (Jun 24, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> You know what? I wonder if those people who have never ever heard of Jesus nor God will have that chance to believe in Him before they die and/or when Jesus returns...



Whether they do or not, we need to rest assure that *God is just* and no matter what happens to these people, God is and still will be *just.* Who knows what will happen to them? But I know God is gracious, he wants everyone to be saved, so I'm sure there is a way for these people to except Christ.


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## angaliquew (Jun 24, 2005)

megonw said:
			
		

> What does the chunk from Romans mean?
> How to reconcile it with[size=-1] John 14:6?
> 
> Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the  Father except through Me." -- John 14:6 (NKJV) [/size]





The reference in Romans that I made is addressing the Gentiles (unsaved people) who have not heard the word of God.


*14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, * 
*15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) * 

I believe this addresses people who have not heard the word of God, but live a life that lines up with the word. They don't know the law but through their conscience they make choices between right and wrong and are doers of the law.


Like I said in my very last post I believe that Jesus is the only way.  In the same breath I can't honestly say that I think God would doom people to hell, just because they never had the chance to confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Which is why I do believe these scriptures address these particular people.


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## melodee (Jun 24, 2005)

I don't beleive that all Jews had/ve a free pass. In the Old Testament Days, people were judged according to the laws (commandments). God knew their hearts back then, and not all folks were living right back then. Now, most Jews are as lost as Gentiles who don't accept Christ's gift. But the Bible does speak of that remnant of Jews who will acknowledge and proclaim Jesus' love--those are the ones who will be saved.


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## mkh_77 (Jun 24, 2005)

Just because someone can acknowledge other religions and know people believe there are other paths to God doesn't mean you are serving two masters.


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## Victorian (Jul 4, 2005)

Bumpin for an important message.  I usually just lurk over here but after reading through this whole thread (which I thought was a good discussion btw) I was led by the Spirit to clear something up that was never addressed, about that passage from Romans chapter 2, just in case someone still had questions. I'll try not to ramble on. 


"Gentiles" refers to anyone who is not a Jew, including Christians. It is not a synonym for "unsaved." The "law" that is referenced in this passage means the literal laws that the Jews followed to seek righteousness, the ones that we don't have (at least not explicitly) because of the birth and death of Jesus.

Knowing that, it is clear that this passage is not about just ANYONE, it's about us--Gentiles, whose only salvation is through Christ.  The Jews were justified by their faith in the law--those who followed it because they desired in their hearts to do what was right. As many said in this thread, God is just--and so He will judge them according to the faith they had in the law, which at that time was the path to Him.  He will judge the Gentiles (us) according to the path that WE must follow to get to him, which is through Jesus. So it's saying that even though we don't seek righteousness by adhering to the laws (or more accurately, by having faith that they alone will lead us to salvation), we may follow them naturally because our faith in and love of Jesus leads us to do so.

*Romans 3:29-31 says
"Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."*

I suggest reading these chapters yourself to put it all in context 

And I'd like to end with a little something from Romans 10:6-9:

*"But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'"(that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).  But what does it say? "'The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):  that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."*


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## PrincessDiva (May 27, 2006)

I am speechless........someone PLEASE get this to Oprah ASAP....."I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. " John 14:6


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## Zeal (May 27, 2006)

dontspeakdefeat said:
			
		

> Just goes to show that a lot the wealthy and influential people think they are above the biblical teachings.
> 
> If the world could save themselves with good intentions they would already be saved. *Everyone has good intentions don't they*?? Doesn't mean everyone is going to heaven.


 
All I can say is Whoa!!!!  I always knew something was fishy about her based on other episodes she had on "spirituality".

*THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS*


Ditto on John 14:6


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## SayLeesa04 (May 27, 2006)

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!! I must send this to all of my family and friends!!!

We rebuke this Misleading Spirit in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ in hebrew(Yahshua)


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## MysTori (May 29, 2006)

That clip is old and too short to really understand what Oprah was saying. What did she say before that piece? What did she say after? You don't critique a book from one sentence or one chapter, why critique Oprah based on one short segment of a whole hour-plus show? I'm not just talking about this show but any show or statement.

 That's why I don't let just anyone throw one-line quotes at me b/c interpretation is relative to personal experience and the bible goes waaay beyond literal meaning. Let's talk about the whole chapter surrounding that quote, then let's disucuss its full contextual meaning in relation to the book. People are too quick to form a half-baked opinion.  

Developing a 360 degree perspective will take you a long way.

**Note:* Not directed at anyone in particular, it just my *bold* opinion.


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## vevster (May 29, 2006)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> www.watchman.org/oprah.htm
> 
> I wish more people would have seen this episode before idolizing Oprah.


I try not to idolize _anyone_.


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## cocoberry10 (May 30, 2006)

How interesting that this thread just came up.  I just saw Oprah on BET yesterday.  She was being interviewed and said that she gained 38 pounds after Beloved came out, b/c it flopped.  She also said that she would never need therapy because...she has JESUS.  I agree with another poster that the clip is too short to tell what the entire conversation is about.  Furthermore, I have never heard Oprah say anything that leads me to believe that she does not completely believe in God and Jesus Christ.  However, what I gathered from that short clip was that she was saying is that you don't have to call him Jesus to believe in the Lord (i.e. you can call him the light).  Maybe I misinterpreted it.

On that note, Fred Rogers (aka Mr. Rogers), who was a Presbyterian minister never referred to "God" on his beloved Children's show.  However (and I'm sure many of us grew up watching and loving his show), most of his plays with puppets reenacted biblical stories to teach children values.

Don't get it twisted ladies.  I completely and totally believe in Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father.  However, my faith is strong enough that I do believe it is the belief and relationship with Him that is most important, and not completely the name you call Him.  However, if you totally disagree, please state your opinions (not trying to offend anyone)!

Oh, and for the record...I certainly DO NOT IDOLIZE OPRAH!  While I think she has done a lot of wonderful things for this world, she is a mere human, and not the Lord himself.  If a person idolizes Oprah, that's not her fault IMO.  I don't think she has ever tried to be God himself.  Just my two cents!


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## sunnyjohn (May 30, 2006)

They also "profile" Joyce Meyer on this website... Along with Seven-Day adventist, "certain" pentecostal groups and "certain" denominations that speak in tongues

The Pilates (the workout method) is questioned.

Has anyone gone through the site?


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## EbonyEyes (May 30, 2006)

I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread...But while I was in Barnes and Noble, I saw this book entitled "The Gospel According to Oprah"

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&isbn=0664229425&itm=1


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## comike (May 30, 2006)

I saw this before.  This happened quite a few agos.  I'm somewhat under the impression that Oprah has or is gaining another understanding of Jesus Christ since then.  I've noticed quite a few comments about Christianity since then.


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## Trini"T" (May 30, 2006)

Yeah Oprah's view of Christianity or God or Jesus may have changed since then so I don't want to comment on what she said BUUUT that lady in the white was holding it DOWN.


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## CurleeDST (May 30, 2006)

I am a supporter of Oprah because she exemplifies many qualities that self-proclaimed Christians have been taught to walk by Jesus Christ himself.  

Looking at her hairstyle this appears to be an episode at least 6 years old and based on her interview on BET this past weekend it sounds like her take on religion is consistent with Baptist teachings.

Either way, it can't be denied her contribution to society and the world.  She definitely demonstrates obedience to the gospel and that is what I go by.




			
				JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> www.watchman.org/oprah.htm
> 
> I wish more people would have seen this episode before idolizing Oprah.


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## honeycomb719 (May 30, 2006)

MonaLisa said:
			
		

> Okay, I watched the clip, I'm confused.
> 
> I heard Oprah reference a spiritual speakers book, Marianne Williamson and said what she said in the book.
> 
> ...




Me too. I dont see anything wrong with what she said. Im not a "my way or no way" thinker in terms of religion. To each his own.


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## MysTori (May 30, 2006)

EbonyEyes said:
			
		

> I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread...But while I was in Barnes and Noble, I saw this book entitled "The Gospel According to Oprah"
> 
> http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&isbn=0664229425&itm=1


 
This is from the same site, quoting information from editors about the book:



> FROM OUR EDITORS
> The title might elicit a double take from some readers, but author Marcia Z. Nelson intends no sarcasm. *In this unauthorized book*, *freelance religion writer Nelson praises Oprah Winfrey for promoting gospel messages of gratitude, empathy, forgiveness, and self-examination on her TV show. Oprah's plain talk and living examples present "good news" in ways that can be appreciated by even secular audience.* Nelson's praise for O isn't quite sky-high: She cautions that Winfrey's emphasis on constant self-improvement encourages an unquenchable desire for success. An insightful book about a cultural icon.


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## comike (May 30, 2006)

It's funny how we as humans try to rationalize things to fit our situations, our lives.  I hope I'm not being offensive to anyone but the truth is that if you believe in God, that is THE God almighty, the only God, and you believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, then you should believe in His word, the Bible.  And the Bible, does not justify us on our works (how good or great we are) but on our faith.  It is by faith and faith alone that gives us eternal life.  and for those that don't believe it, they should read the Word of God for themselves.


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## CurleeDST (May 30, 2006)

According to what God taught me, being a good person alone is not a guarantee into heaven.  You must accept His son as your Lord and Savior and believe he died on the cross for your sins and rose again!  Use the Word and Jesus as examples for the way to live your life.

My pastor did mention Oprah in a sermon in that, regardless of what she believes Christians can learn a thing or two by the way she gives unselfishly and generously.  Ask Christians for money and many start hemming and hawing vs. just being a CHEERFUL giver b/c God as our Father is RICHER than any man and will reward us tenfold in many ways!

I admire Oprah for that but no one with her stature, power and notoriety can walk this Earth without haters!  People hated JESUS CHRIST and he did NOTHING but heal the sick and spread the Good Word so it is only expected.



			
				honeycomb719 said:
			
		

> Me too. I dont see anything wrong with what she said. Im not a "my way or no way" thinker in terms of religion. To each his own.


----------



## comike (May 30, 2006)

CurleeDST said:
			
		

> According to what God taught me, being a good person alone is not a guarantee into heaven. You must accept His son as your Lord and Savior and believe he died on the cross for your sins and rose again! Use the Word and Jesus as examples for the way to live your life.
> 
> My pastor did mention Oprah in a sermon in that, regardless of what she believes Christians can learn a thing or two by the way she gives unselfishly and generously. Ask Christians for money and many start hemming and hawing vs. just being a CHEERFUL giver b/c God as our Father is RICHER than any man and will reward us tenfold in many ways!
> 
> I admire Oprah for that but no one with her stature, power and notoriety can walk this Earth without haters! People hated JESUS CHRIST and he did NOTHING but heal the sick and spread the Good Word so it is only expected.


 
We both were thinking the same thing...our messages above were submitted at the same time.   My final statement is....thank God for grace.  Thank God for loving me and saving me despite my shortcomings.


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## CurleeDST (May 30, 2006)

I read your post and agree with it wholeheartedly!!  We were definitely thinking the same thing.




			
				comike said:
			
		

> We both were thinking the same thing...our messages above were submitted at the same time.   My final statement is....thank God for grace.  Thank God for loving me and saving me despite my shortcomings.


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## Armyqt (May 30, 2006)

comike said:
			
		

> It's funny how we as humans try to rationalize things to fit our situations, our lives. I hope I'm not being offensive to anyone but the truth is that if you believe in God, that is THE God almighty, the only God, and you believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, then you should believe in His word, the Bible. *And the Bible, does not justify us on our works (how good or great we are) but on our faith. It is by faith and faith alone that gives us eternal life. and for those that don't believe it, they should read the Word of God for themselves*.


 
I KNOW I"m gonna get blasted for this, but I have to speak my mind.  If one were to just stop for a moment and think about the bolded statement.  Think-  "actions speaks louder than words".  How is it that you can live a good and righteous life yet not be accepted by God.  But I see so many people who "profess" to be Christian and think that alone is enough.  Many so-called Christans who think it's just enough to say they believe.  But in fact IF they truly believed, then they would live their lives as such and not try to judge everyone else in the world.  I think many have been led astray and have no idea.  There is something seriously wrong with that equation.


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## crispychris (May 30, 2006)

Has anyone watched Meet the Faith on BET featuring Oprah, she explains her christian values very openly.  I did not realize how strong her faith was.


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## comike (May 31, 2006)

Armyqt said:
			
		

> I KNOW I"m gonna get blasted for this, but I have to speak my mind. If one were to just stop for a moment and think about the bolded statement. Think- "actions speaks louder than words". How is it that you can live a good and righteous life yet not be accepted by God. But I see so many people who "profess" to be Christian and think that alone is enough. Many so-called Christans who think it's just enough to say they believe. But in fact IF they truly believed, then they would live their lives as such and not try to judge everyone else in the world. I think many have been led astray and have no idea. There is something seriously wrong with that equation.


 
People most definitely have a misconception.  Part of being a Christian is becoming more and more Christ-like as we live.  Salvation by grace is not to say that one is saved and can continue in their old ways.  Someone that has been truly saved should have a transformation of their life/lifestyle.  I had the same misconception and misunderstanding about my beliefs some years ago but after diligently seeking (and reading the book of Romans) to find out the true meaning of my salvation it was revealed to me.  It is definitely not enough to just believe.  And that is clearly stated in the Bible (faith without works is dead) but at the same time, it's not enough at all to just a good life.  None of us is in a place to judge anyone because we all sin and fall short.


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## CurleeDST (May 31, 2006)

Armyqt - if you want the true answer to your question below take it to God and He will answer it for you.  Being a good person or doing good deeds by worldly standards is NOT enough to be saved.  Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, lean not unto thine own understanding.  In all thy ways acknowledge Him.  And He will direct thy path.

The bible is VERY clear in its explanation of what we need to do and how we should live our lives if we accept and believe in Him.




			
				Armyqt said:
			
		

> I KNOW I"m gonna get blasted for this, but I have to speak my mind.  If one were to just stop for a moment and think about the bolded statement.  Think-  "actions speaks louder than words".  How is it that you can live a good and righteous life yet not be accepted by God.  But I see so many people who "profess" to be Christian and think that alone is enough.  Many so-called Christans who think it's just enough to say they believe.  But in fact IF they truly believed, then they would live their lives as such and not try to judge everyone else in the world.  I think many have been led astray and have no idea.  There is something seriously wrong with that equation.


----------



## CurleeDST (May 31, 2006)

The bigger picture, not about what Oprah said during an interview on her show some years ago, but let's focus on what God wants us to do - which she practices very well:

May 31, 2006

Good Morning Father:

Thought of the day Family: Giving is the prescription for overflow.

Supporting scripture: Genesis 26:12 (KJV) - Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year a hundredfold: and the Lord blessed Him.

Wisdom key: Overflow doesn’t start until a seed is sown.

Did you know? God only gives overflow to the obedient.


Prayer: Father, I thank You for the ability to be and have all that You have for me.  Lord, I will continue to give of my time, treasure and talents, that You will be glorified.  In Jesus name.  Amen.


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## BeaLady (May 31, 2006)

crispychris said:
			
		

> Has anyone watched Meet the Faith on BET featuring Oprah, she explains her christian values very openly.  I did not realize how strong her faith was.



I'm sorry I missed it.  What did she say, specifically regarding Jesus?


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## Dynamic (May 31, 2006)

Oprah spoke about her childhood and how she has always believed that she is more than the "one time under a tree" that created her--she believes that she is a child of God. Several times she spoke of "having Jesus" and praying to the Father and Son.

I don't know what she said on her show several years ago, but the woman used to (as a child) and now believes in Jesus. Also, during the Legends Weekend, she had a gospel brunch. I didn't see anyone letting Tina Turner sing, 'cause as much as O loves Tina--Tina is NOT a Christian!

Moreover, I don't think that we should "idolize" anyone. Any idol will be just that--idle--won't do a thing! We should praise God from whom all blessings flow. He simply uses and works through people to bless people.


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## EbonyEyes (May 31, 2006)

Armyqt said:
			
		

> I KNOW I"m gonna get blasted for this, but I have to speak my mind.  If one were to just stop for a moment and think about the bolded statement.  Think-  "actions speaks louder than words".  How is it that you can live a good and righteous life yet not be accepted by God.  But I see so many people who "profess" to be Christian and think that alone is enough.  Many so-called Christans who think it's just enough to say they believe.  But in fact IF they truly believed, then they would live their lives as such and not try to judge everyone else in the world.  I think many have been led astray and have no idea.  There is something seriously wrong with that equation.



It's unfortunately true that some believe that if you just profess that you believe in Jesus Christ then you are automatically saved.

I believe that if you truly have faith and truly believe in Jesus Christ's teachings then you will want to do good works and you will actually do them.


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## BeaLady (May 31, 2006)

Dynamic said:
			
		

> Oprah spoke about her childhood and how she has always believed that she is more than the "one time under a tree" that created her--she believes that she is a child of God. Several times she spoke of "having Jesus" and praying to the Father and Son.
> 
> I don't know what she said on her show several years ago, but the woman used to (as a child) and now believes in Jesus. Also, during the Legends Weekend, she had a gospel brunch. I didn't see anyone letting Tina Turner sing, 'cause as much as O loves Tina--Tina is NOT a Christian!
> 
> Moreover, I don't think that we should "idolize" anyone. Any idol will be just that--idle--won't do a thing! We should praise God from whom all blessings flow. He simply uses and works through people to bless people.



Thanks Dynamic,

I saw the show from years ago when she made those statements.  I knew that she had begun to develop a New Age philosophy.  At that time I was pretty judgemental about her choice.  I've noticed in the early years Oprah always had the Winans on her show and she used to say how close she was to CeCe.  For a number of years the Winans weren't on her show and she never talked about them.  Based on CeCe's public  image she doesn't seem like someone who compromise on her beliefs.  After she won her case against those cattlemen I've noticed that the Winans have been on a little more often.

A friend of mine said a group of ladies from her church had committed themselves to praying for her salvation.  My friend would never let me say anything judgemental about her choice because she reminded me of the praying women at her church and how she believed that Oprah would eventually be saved.  

It reminded me of how a friend wouldn't give up on me for all those years when I was not saved.


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## sunnyjohn (May 31, 2006)

Again, did anyone go though this site? They have something to say about Joyce Meyer someone many of us respect. They are not to positive on a few Pentecostal Christian groups, many of whom a lot of AA are part of.

They also profile Pilates exercise. 

I am not knocking these people, but it is wise to "consider the source" before we absorb what people say.


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## *ElleB (May 31, 2006)

The lady professed that the "only way" is through Jesus, so i guess Jews, and Buddhists and Hindus are all going to hell?


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## divya (May 31, 2006)

The Bible answers these questions for us.  We are to live by the light that we have. Those of us who have Christianity are to believe in Jesus Christ and live by the Word of God. If there are people who are born in some remote place, Hindu, Muslim etc and never hear the story of Christ but these people live right, these people will be in the Kingdom. Remember that God - Father, Son, & Holy Spirit - reaches us in so many ways. I love God for being to fair to us.

As for Oprah, only the Lord knows her heart. We should never idolize humans period. Christ's character is what we should always strive to emulate. 


Romans 2:11-16 (New King James Version)
(posting this again)
11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


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## EbonyEyes (May 31, 2006)

sunnyjohn said:
			
		

> Again, did anyone go though this site? They have something to say about Joyce Meyer someone many of us respect. They are not to positive on a few Pentecostal Christian groups, many of whom a lot of AA are part of.
> 
> They also profile Pilates exercise.
> 
> I am not knocking these people, but it is wise to "consider the source" before we absorb what people say.



Yeah I noticed Joyce Meyer was on there!  My mom respects her a lot.  I actually have about 5 of her books.


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## TrustMeLove (Jun 1, 2006)

Wow..I read through about 11 of the pages. What do I have to say?

I wish people would read up on the bible and what judging really means. 
I am tired of fighting that battle. Read please read. Please read *Matthew Chap. 7..*The whole chapter..the entire chapter..don't read just a little bit because you will get half of what the Lord wrote...But, before your ead ask for guidance please guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Also all these word of faith folks...td jakes..joyce myers..read up on them...They say good things, but find out what their real doctrine of faith maybe because in reality you may nto agree with them. I know I don't and I don't listen to any of them...My first lady loves all of them especially benny hin..I really respect her and look to her for wise advice..but I can't get down with those folks and won't. 


And GLORY TO GOD!! For that white women in the audience. Thank you Jesus for you people..continue to bless that woman and keep hear near the cross.


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## sunnyjohn (Jun 2, 2006)

One Christian group thinks the other Christian group is going to hell and vice versa. If everyone thinks everyone else not in their Christian group or who doesn't *QUITE* believe the way they do are going to hell, _who exactly is going to heaven???_


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## Beauty4Ashes (Apr 30, 2007)

Bump.........


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## CurleeDST (Apr 30, 2007)

PREACH IT!



			
				dontspeakdefeat said:
			
		

> Just goes to show that a lot the wealthy and influential people think they are above the biblical teachings.
> 
> If the world could save themselves  with good intentions they would already be saved. Everyone has good intentions don't they?? Doesn't mean everyone is going to heaven.


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