# Does God Find Us or Do We Find God?



## loolalooh (Mar 22, 2012)

This is not an easy question.  Meditate on it and share your thoughts.


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## Shimmie (Mar 23, 2012)

loolalooh said:


> This is not an easy question.  Meditate on it and share your thoughts.



We were always in God's heart...  He will never forget us.   (Isaiah 49:16)

He said that He'd be with us and never forsake us.

So, it is 'we' who open our eyes (Ephesians 1), and finally see Him, the True One who has loved us and has been with us all along.


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## Lanea87 (Mar 23, 2012)

When I read the title I already had an answer LOL, but THEN I started thinking. I like Shimmie's answer but if she hadnt responded yet I would have *just* said...(clears throat)

We find him.
I did a little studying on Matthew 7:7-8 two days ago and this what first popped in my head ".......seek, and ye shall find......." When I read this I was thinking about like not giving up on finding out who he is. You have to be determinded to seek him because it take faith and being focused, and the bible says ".....knock, and it shall be opened unto you." So just going off of what I studied I say you have to seek him and have faith while doing it. But then I also know that he lives within us, but I havent studied that yet so I cant talk about something I have read myself with thine eyes LOL.

My final answer is first he finds us before we even knew who we were, but its up to us to find him......

Good question though!


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## TraciChanel (Mar 23, 2012)

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## LucieLoo12 (Mar 23, 2012)

I believe God initiates the relationship

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me *draws him*, and I will raise him up at the last day.


Ezekiel 34:-11-12For thus saith  the Lord  GOD ; Behold, I, will both *search  my sheep , and seek them out *
As a shepherd seeks out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; *so will I seek out my sheep*, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered on a cloudy and dark day.

(Also Ezekiel 16 is great as well)




But I believe it is up to us to continue the relationship. We know His hand is strectched out to us. He already sent His son Jesus to die for us.The provision has been made. His part is done. But it is now up to us to grab ahold of Him and seek to know Him.Through seeking Him, we will learn the requirements of God and what it takes to please Him and make it in.
 The bible says many have been called but few are chosen. God is calling His sheep out, but we have to accept the call and work on being "chosen".


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## loolalooh (Mar 23, 2012)

Y'all are on it and on one accord.  Thank you for sharing.


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## VictoriousBrownFlower (Mar 23, 2012)

I believe god finds us. I think he chases us down once hes chosen us and we have no other choice but to realize god is real and he wants a relationship with us. At least thats how it happened for me.


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## Detroit2Dallas (Mar 23, 2012)

GOD CHOSES US THEN WE CHOSE HIM, BUT HE HAS FIRST CHOSEN US


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## cyrealla (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm trying to understand, If God chooses, then why are some people going to hell if they were never chosen by God in the first place


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## VictoriousBrownFlower (Mar 23, 2012)

cyrealla said:


> I'm trying to understand, If God chooses, then why are some people going to hell if they were never chosen by God in the first place


 I think everyone is chosen to go down the road god has set before them but some dont choose to do it. So they end up in hell because they dont want to go down the narrow path. Instead they follow the world.


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## auparavant (Mar 23, 2012)

This was my previous question in CF.  If G-d only chooses some, then how is salvation just and fair?  I think this is part of predestination or Calvin's interpretation of salvation.


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## loolalooh (Mar 23, 2012)

cyrealla said:


> I'm trying to understand, If God chooses, then why are some people going to hell if they were never chosen by God in the first place



cyrealla:

I have to run, but here are some Scriptures to consider.  We have free will in whether we choose to listen or not when God speaks.  *Pharoah chose not to listen, and God eventually hardened his heart (i.e., allowed his heart to be hardened). * Similarly can be said of non-believers.  At some point, God "gives one over to his/her sinful desires"...

*The reprobate mind (ROMANS 1):*


> 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
> 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
> 
> 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
> ...




*Pharoah's heart hardened (EXODUS 4):*


> 21 The LORD said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. 22 Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, 23 and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’”


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## loolalooh (Mar 23, 2012)

^^^^ *Someone feel free to correct me if I'm overlooking other Scripture.*  I've heard of predestination but never delved that much into it.  I have two theories:

1) God speaks to us all.  It is our choice of whether to listen.

OR

2) God already knows who will stick with him and who won't.  It is not that He has chosen "favorites".  It is that He knows the future.

Either or, nonbelievers will not go to heaven because of their own free will ... not because the Lord didn't pick them, persay.


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## blazingthru (Mar 24, 2012)

We just had a message some what similiar to this question.  Shimmie had it right But the most amazing part is God's patiences. Remember God sees the begnining to the end he can go back and forth through time.  Hezekiels son  is a good example of Gods patience and mercy and how he draws us in situation so that we can finally open our eyes to see him.  Read about 2 Chronicles 33 (remember that Manasseh knew better, we are more sinners if we know better and we still do it.)  but the point is God knew that Manasseh would seek him out but Manasseh didn't, as soon as he got in trouble what did he do. He knew what to do.  

Manasseh Succeeds Hezekiah in Judah
 1 Manasseh was twelve years old when he became king, and he reigned fifty-five years in Jerusalem. 2 He did evil in the sight of the LORD according to the abominations of the nations whom the LORD dispossessed before the sons of Israel. 3 For he rebuilt the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down; he also erected altars for the Baals and made [a]Asherim, and worshiped all the host of heaven and served them. 4 He built altars in the house of the LORD of which the LORD had said, “My name shall be in Jerusalem forever.” 5 For he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD. 6 He made his sons pass through the fire in the valley of Ben-hinnom; and he practiced witchcraft, used divination, practiced sorcery and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him to anger. 7 Then he put the carved image of the idol which he had made in the house of God, of which God had said to David and to Solomon his son, “In this house and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen from all the tribes of Israel, I will put My name forever; 8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers, if only they will observe to do all that I have commanded them according to all the law, the statutes and the ordinances given through Moses.” 9 Thus Manasseh misled Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to do more evil than the nations whom the LORD destroyed before the sons of Israel. 
Manasseh’s Idolatry Rebuked
 10 The LORD spoke to Manasseh and his people, but they paid no attention. 11 Therefore the LORD brought the commanders of the army of the king of Assyria against them, and they captured Manasseh with *hooks, bound him with bronze chains and took him to Babylon. 12 When he was in distress, he entreated the LORD his God and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers. 13 When he prayed to Him, He was moved by his entreaty and heard his supplication, and brought him again to Jerusalem to his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD was God.

I love this story because God had mercy on him a sinner who knew better,  God had patience and waited for Manasseh to get it together and so.....
\
 14 Now after this he built the outer wall of the city of David on the west side of Gihon, in the valley, even to the entrance of the Fish Gate; and he encircled the Ophel with it and made it very high. Then he put army commanders in all the fortified cities of Judah. 15 He also removed the foreign gods and the idol from the house of the LORD, as well as all the altars which he had built on the mountain of the house of the LORD and in Jerusalem, and he threw them outside the city. 16 He set up the altar of the LORD and sacrificed peace offerings and thank offerings on it; and he ordered Judah to serve the LORD God of Israel. 17 Nevertheless the people still sacrificed in the high places, although only to the LORD their God. 

 18 Now the rest of the acts of Manasseh even his prayer to his God, and the words of the seers who spoke to him in the name of the LORD God of Israel, behold, they are among the records of the kings of Israel. 19 His prayer also and how God was entreated by him, and all his sin, his unfaithfulness, and the sites on which he built high places and erected the Asherim and the carved images, before he humbled himself, behold, they are written in the records of the [c]Hozai. 20 So Manasseh slept with his fathers, and they buried him in his own house. And Amon his son became king in his place.*


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## blazingthru (Mar 24, 2012)

God says he loves the whole world, he loves every single person on this planet and will forever. Even after those who died unrepented and are forever gone.  we all get to choose God.  Even those who never knew God has a tug in their heart to make the right choices.


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## Crown (Mar 24, 2012)

Predestination to accomplish the plan of God is too much present in the Bible to ignore it.


  Ex. 9 : 16 But *I have raised you up for this very purpose*, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

  Ex. 10 : 1 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, *for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them* 2 that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the LORD.”

  Ex. 14 : 4 And *I will harden Pharaoh’s heart*, and he will pursue them. But *I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army*, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD.”
  17 *I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians* so that they will go in after them. And *I will gain glory through Pharaoh and all his army*, through his chariots and his horsemen. 18 The Egyptians will know that I am the LORD when I gain glory through Pharaoh, his chariots and his horsemen.”

  2 Chr. 10 : 15 So the king did not listen to the people, *for this turn of events was from God, to fulfill the word the LORD had spoken to Jeroboam* son of Nebat through Ahijah the Shilonite.

  2 Chr. 11 : 2 But this word of the LORD came to Shemaiah the man of God: 3 “Say to Rehoboam son of Solomon king of Judah and to all Israel in Judah and Benjamin, 4 ‘This is what the LORD says: Do not go up to fight against your fellow Israelites. Go home, every one of you, *for this is my doing*.’” So they obeyed the words of the LORD and turned back from marching against Jeroboam.

  Is. 45 : 1 “This is what *the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor*, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:…
  5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me…
  9 “*Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you making?’ Does your work say, ‘The potter has no hands’?*

  Rom. 8 : 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, *who have been called according to his purpose*. 29 *For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters*. 30 *And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified*.

Phil. 2 : 13 *for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose*.

  Rom. 9 : 10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—*in order that God’s purpose in election might stand*: 12 not by works but *by him who calls*—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14 What then shall we say? *Is God unjust? Not at all!* 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 
  16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “*I raised you up for this very purpose*, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 *Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden*. 
   19 One of you will say to me: “*Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?*” 20 *But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? *

Rev. 17: 17 For *God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.

*Job 38 : 2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge?


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## aribell (Mar 25, 2012)

I was just reading C.S. Lewis' The Silver Chair, and something Aslan said made me rethink my own experience.  He said something like, "You would not have asked to come here if I had not been calling you."  To even want to know Him is Him calling us.  This is found in the verse saying that no one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws them.

Everything originates with the Lord.  He calls us, but He does not force us to come to Him.  Scripture says that there are vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor, and that one may cleanse oneself to become a vessel of honor.  God will use the vessels of dishonor for His purposes, like with Pharaoh, but had Pharaoh desired to submit to the Lord, his heart would not have been hardened.  Hardening of the heart by God is itself His judgment on sin, a judgment that comes before death, and which leads to ultimate condemnation.  Those who reject God's call may eventually get to a point where it is no longer possible to turn to God.

God already knows who will and who will not submit to Him, and works everything accordingly.


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## Laela (Mar 25, 2012)

I believe it is both, interdependently, with God being the Giver of Life and man being the Receiver.  Man is not capable of giving, until he can receive. To explain -- God seeks reconciliation with ALL mankind:

In *John 3:16* "_For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosever believeth in Him  should not perish but have eternal life." _

But it is only those who seek Him shall be saved. In Luke 19, for example, it is Zaccaeus who seeks Jesus out; and by doing so, he positioned Himself for Jesus to come to him (Chosen, or received salvation). 
In *Luke 19:10*
Jesus said to Zaccaeus "_For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost._"


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## Godyssey (Mar 26, 2012)

cyrealla said:


> I'm trying to understand, If God chooses, then why are some people going to hell if they were never chosen by God in the first place


 
This is what I'm trippin' on.  I have to believe that God (if there is one) has to choose because as humans we are very susceptible and can believe in God for false reasons like societal pressure or simply because we want to believe so badly, that we convince ourselves that there is a God without any true signs that God is indeed a reality.


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## Godyssey (Mar 26, 2012)

Laela said:


> But it is only those who seek Him shall be saved.


 
But what if you seek him and he never comes?


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## gn1g (Mar 26, 2012)

Good question, we can't come to the Lord unless he draws us. We don't even know we are lost until he finds us and draws us to him.

I'm reading thru the psalms and while reading it last night something David said became rhema. He said in Psalms 65:4 Blessed is the man You choose, And cause to approach You,

Thank God for choosing me. Now how did he choose me and CAUSE me to approach him is another subject but I will say this sometimes in life you don't have anyone else to turn to or help you BUT GOD. You don't have a choice but to TRUST HIM. When a problem arises it is because GOD has choosen you and has something/an opportunity in mind for you . . .yep that scripture will preach. 

Making myself happy. He finds us.


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## Crown (Mar 26, 2012)

Godyssey said:


> But what if you seek him and he never comes?



Jn. 6 : 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them...

You can not seek Him, if He does not first draw you!

...

 But, this takes patience, perseverance and faith.

And, the Time of God is not our time.


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## Godyssey (Mar 26, 2012)

gn1g said:


> Good question, we can't come to the Lord unless he draws us. We don't even know we are lost until he finds us and draws us to him..


 
I can dig this. However, most of us are told to believe in him as soon as we exit the womb. Just because our parents or whomever is telling us to search for him or believe, perhaps it isn't in God's time to choose us. if ever.



Crown said:


> If someone is seeking God, it's because He is drawing this person.
> But, this takes patience, perseverance and faith.
> And, the Time of God is not our time.


 
You both have pretty much the same response.

What do you think about adults telling kids, or even babies or even other adults to seek God when he has yet to choose us?

ETA: I'm really enjoying hearing your point's of view btw.


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## Crown (Mar 26, 2012)

Godyssey said:


> What do you think about adults telling kids, or even babies or even other adults to seek God when he has yet to choose us?



First :
A mission 
Mk. 16 : 15 He said to them, “*Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.*

Second : 
There is a difference between call and choose. 
Call is the first step. Seek is about a call. 
The call is for all who hear His voice. 
By faith, I must believe that I am chosen. 
But, we don’t know who is chosen or who is not. 
We have to walk by faith and compassion and presume that the call to be chosen is for all. 

Maybe you know the Bible. 
Example : the worthless servant (Mat. 25 : 23) was also called. But, did he honor His Master in doing His work? No! 

We have to talk about God, to teach babies, kids, adults, and all mankind. 
This is a treasure to share with *everyone*. 

Deut. 19 :  18 Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 19  *Teach them to your children,* talking about them when you sit at home  and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.  20 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates...

In doing this, we are advancing the Kingdom of God : 

2 Peter 3 : 8 But do not forget this  one thing, dear friends: *With the Lord a day is like a thousand years,  and a thousand years are like a day*. 9  The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand  slowness. Instead *he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish,  but everyone to come to repentance*.


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## Laela (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi Godyssey,

It is not God's nature to turn away anyone who seeks Him, yet He is unable to save those who do not want to be saved. The Holy Spirit is like a magnet..and will respond to the brokenhearted or whoever cries out to God for help or mercy. We (mankind) are equipped with a "knower", that is our spirit, and are capable of  knowing when something is going on in our spirits. Whether we respond is up to us. God didn't leave us hanging... 




Godyssey said:


> But what if you seek him and he never comes?


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## Shimmie (Mar 26, 2012)

Godyssey said:


> This is what I'm trippin' on.  I have to believe that God (*if there is one*) has to choose because as humans we are very susceptible and can believe in God for false reasons like societal pressure or simply because we want to believe so badly, that we convince ourselves that there is a God without any true signs that God is indeed a reality.





Godyssey said:


> But what if you seek him and he never comes?



If you didn't believe in God, you wouldn't be talking about Him, let alone asking questions of displaced doubt.    You even bear God's name in your screen name. 

Godyssey, you're not a fool.  You know that God exists; in fact you know it so well that you can't run away from Him.   You'll never convince anyone 'here' that God does not exist, as well as yourself.    

God has shown Himself to you many times and in ways that you know beyond any shadow of any doubt that God is and that He always will be.   

It's not the existance of God that you doubt, it's yourself that you are unsure of.   You've failed to find who you are and why you are.   

In this and all, God has the answers for you.   Just ask Him.


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## gn1g (Mar 26, 2012)

my parents never pushed God on me in fact I think my mother was very uncertain about his existance.  We came to know him on our own all at the same time. . . I went to church at random times in my childhood and I attended catholic school.  Other folks would tell me a little about the Lord and one person gave me a living bible it was through lifes difficulties that I sought the Lord however I remember hearing the voice of God when I wa 16 everything he said that day came to pass when he said it would.  One of the things he said was I would have a child when I was 27 and that happened.  Answered prayer increases your faith.  A friend left her bible at my house and I began to read it and she gave it to me. So I say this to say that God drew me with loving kindness and tenderness through a series of events.  I love Him.

Ultimately I believe the choice is yours. . . i'll be back with more thoughts.


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## loolalooh (Mar 26, 2012)

I'd like to share this scripture I came across yesterday:

1 Timothy 2

Pray for All Men 
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, giving of thanks be made for all men, 2* for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3* For life in all godliness and reverence. this is good and acceptable in the sight of *God our Savior, 4* who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.* 5* For there is one knowledge of the truth. God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6* who gave men, the Man Christ Jesus, Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7* for which I was appointed a due time, preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ[ a] and not lying—a the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.


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## sunnysmyler (Mar 27, 2012)

loolalooh said:


> I'd like to share this scripture I came across yesterday:
> 
> 1 Timothy 2
> 
> ...


 

But is God's "desires" the same as our desire, or is it his "Will"..... Here is the Concordance definition..."
*1)* to will, have in mind, intend
*a)* to be resolved or determined, to purpose
*b)* to desire, to wish
*c)* to love
*1)* to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
*d)* to take delight in, have pleasure

and isn't Gods will just that....if He speaks it, it will be done. It will not return void! When we think of the word desire, we think of it like when we have a desire, meaning we want to but it's likely it may or may not happen, cause it's just a desire, but God's desire, his will, his wish is as good as DONE (His ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts like our thoughts).... All men will be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth!
As Romans 9: 18-22 says 
v.18 So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he *chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen*.(we don't know why He does this, he's GOD)
v.19 Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven't they simply done what he makes them do?" 
v.20 No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, "Why have you made me like this?" 
v.21 When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn't he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? 
v.22 In the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are destined for destruction.


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