# Can We Live Sin Free???



## Poohbear (Mar 8, 2010)

I saw this blog on Facebook from someone name Gabriel. What do you ladies think about it?


*1 Peter 4:1 says, "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin."* 

In recent meetings I have been asking congregations if we can live a sin free life? The response is usually silence! Some say yes while others say no, but the general response is mostly "We're not sure?"

The purpose of the question is to challenge people to examine a "sin free" possibility and to ask themselves why they do sin. No one ever commits a sin without first deciding to do so. All sin requires a decision to be made on our part before the sinful action takes place. *Actually, the reason that people sin is because we want to sin!* Most of us won't admit that, but it is true! The scripture we quoted from 1 Peter 4:1 tells us that people sin because they are unwilling to "suffer in the flesh." We like our comfort too much. Let me explain.

When we are tempted to sin, we are being drawn away by the lust of our flesh. In short, our flesh desires something that we should not do! At that point, a battle usually follows. "After all, that guy just cut me off in traffic and he deserves to be cussed out! Maybe I can get him at the next stop light!" Our flesh really wants to get back at this guy, but the Word says to walk in love! If I decide to walk in love, my flesh is going to "suffer". It suffers because I am resisting the desire to sin. It's much like the suffering an athlete does when training for competition. Training is tough, hard work on the body, but it pays off in the end!

Hebrews 5:14 tells us that through practice, we can develop our senses (flesh) to actually resist sin's attempts to knock us off course! Training camp is not always easy, but it's rewards are worth the effort! 

Be blessed!

Do you believe we sin because we want to sin?

Do you think we can live without sin like Jesus? Why or why not?

What is your Christian denomination/sect, etc.?

Thanks in advance!


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## LongTimeComing (Mar 8, 2010)

I think people do sin becuase they want to. 

I don't think  people can live without sin, that would make us equal to/ like Jesus. I don't believe that is possible. I think we can really close, but not exact. 

I am a nondenominational Christian.


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## LovelyRo (Mar 8, 2010)

Do you believe we sin because we want to sin?  
Sin is pleasing to the flesh... I believe that it's natural to want to please the flesh however, as children of God our desire must be to please the Lord and live according to His word.  As we develop our relationship with Him, He gives us strength to resist temptation!
Do you think we can live without sin like Jesus? Why or why not?
I do not believe that we can live a life without sin!  I simply believe that this is the way that God planned it... to kind of keep us in check!  To let us know that we are below Jesus!
What is your Christian denomination/sect, etc.?
Pentecostal


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## sidney (Mar 8, 2010)

The bible tells us to "Be ye perfect."  And to "Be ye holy."  Therefore, God expects us to be perfect and to be holy.  I believe that once someone is converted, they are a christian.  But the extent to which they live in holiness is up to that person.  We must renew our own minds conitnually in the word of God.  We must "work out our salvation" as the bible says, "with fear and trembling."  So this is something that we have to want to do.  And to choose holiness over sin. Whether or not a person sins reflects the committment and obedience that person has to God.  The absence of sin does not determine whether we are christians.  But, because we are christian there is a desire in our hearts to abstain from sin, so eventually we will reach perfection.  But you have to renew your mind to do it.    So you can be christian and sin occasionally.  Remember God says "you will know them by their fruits."  So there will be some evidence of conversion even if they haven't worked out everything yet.


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## Foxglove (Mar 8, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> Do you believe we sin because we want to sin?
> 
> Do you think we can live without sin like Jesus? Why or why not?
> 
> ...




1. Yes. I believe it's in our nature to sin. If it was that easy to live sin free we wouldn't need Jesus or God, we'd just be able to will ourselves to live sin free.
2. No, that's why we need him. Even the person with the strongest willpower in the world won't be able to live sin free.
3. Nondenominational


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## Sharpened (Mar 8, 2010)

I have been pondering this for the past few months and I think this person is right on time.



Poohbear said:


> Do you believe we sin because we want to sin?


Yup! There is no excuse if we are under His grace. In fact, I am going to stop calling myself a sinner because the term may induce laziness.



> Do you think we can live without sin like Jesus? Why or why not?


We are to strive to that point because it is a part of our spiritual maturity. Once we reach that point, we will come into our rest until His return.



> What is your Christian denomination/sect, etc.?


None, just a relationship with the Father.



> Thanks in advance!


You're welcome.


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## ToyToy (Mar 8, 2010)

I think sometimes we want to sin (...the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak). 
But I don't think we can live without sin as long as we remain on this earth. Some sins are not intentional. How do we categorise those? And just because we don't know they are sins, does not mean they aren't, so either way we remain guilty. That's why we have the blood of Jesus. It is essential, so we remain guiltless before God. We can only strive to be perfect, but as long as we are alive, I don't think we will be. That doesn't mean we can't try, though . 
I go to a pentecostal church. I'm not sure whether that is a denomination?


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## Mis007 (Mar 8, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> Do you believe we sin because we want to sin?
> 
> Yes and No, I just don't think its as straight forward as saying we sin because we want to. If we take into consideration the varying degrees of sin some is certainly not down to just wanting to.
> 
> ...


 
Roman Catholic.


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## Lylddlebit (Mar 8, 2010)

~~~~~~~~Delete~~~~~~~~


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## discobiscuits (Mar 9, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> Do you believe we sin because we want to sin?
> 
> *yes*
> Do you think we can live without sin like Jesus? Why or why not?
> ...


you're welcome


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## Poohbear (Mar 9, 2010)

I've been reading my Bible alot lately and I cannot get around the fact that God does not want us to sin. God does not say it is okay to sin every now and then. God hates sin. It displeases Him. 

1star pointed out two verses that I have come across as well...

Jesus said "Go and sin no more." 

He did not say "Go and sin no more, but if you sin again, it's okay as long as you're sorry and ask for forgiveness."

Are we using God's forgiveness as a reason to sin and to support our "love" for sin?

Romans 6:1 clearly speaks against taking advantage of God's grace and mercy.

Isn't repentance and forgiveness a one time thing?

Have we been taught that everything is a sin just to support the sins we don't want to give up?

The Bible does say in 1 John 3 "he who is born of God does not sin..." 
How can you get around that verse to say "does not continue in sin" or any other version of this verse? It's still the same! Whether you lie today or a year from now, that's continuing in sin because you went back to sinning.

I'm just throwing this questions out there as food for thought. I myself am struggling with sin and want to give it all up and follow Christ wholeheartedly.  Philippians 4:13 tells us "all things are possible with God."  The Bible is God's Word and Jesus is suppose to be the way, the truth, and the life. I want to live a sinfree life. Like 1star said, I'm not perfect like Jesus, but God does call us to be holy after he gives us salvation.  Simply believing can't be enough for salvation. If that were the case, all those other commands that God gave us in the Bible wouldn't be there.

What do you think?


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## Ije4eva (Mar 9, 2010)

So here are my two cents.  The bible can be tricky to wrap your mind around (especially a book like 1 John)  and that why the entire thing needs to be taken in context and the Holy Spirit needs to bring understanding in a way that makes sense to you. And unfortunatley we're reading it in english, the original translation is a much richer language (I'll explain below). Though we sin, the bible calls us "saints" when we receive Jesus into our lives.  That's because His life has come into our hearts.  However, do we immediately loose our habitual fleshy nature which loves sin?  Heck no, it takes time.  And we will only be "perfected" on that day when we meet Him face to face, He himself will finish off the process (I've attempted to list that verse below).

1 Cor 13: 9-12
9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

I'm pretty sure I'll be committing one kind of sin or another for the rest of my life, but the minute I gave my life to Christ, I started to change, and the truth is, I probably sin a lot less now that I used to before.  The bible gives several examples of God working in us little by little, gradually.  He doesn't just zap us so that we change immediately, but He shows us a better way through His word and we make that decision to trust Him to help us become more like Him. There are some blantant sins I used to commit 5 years ago that have totally fallen off.  Then there are some others that I'm still struggling with that I know with time will come off too.  Please try not to listen to Christians who want to make you feel like you don't measure up or need to achieve a perfect standard, only one is perfect and that is Jesus.  Its true that God hates sin because He knows its detrimental to our own livlihood. But God absolutely LOVES us, and He is more merciful that we'll ever know.  We shouldn't excuse sin, there is no excuse for it.  But we also should not cheat our selves out of the free gift of forgiveness thats immediately ready for us when we fall because there is not a single man on earth who won't fall...period.  Thats why we are flesh and blood.

As far as the 1 John 3 references, the reason why people take that and say "continually" sin, is because the original translation (which I believe may be Hebrew) uses that word to mean a "habitually sinful lifestyle".  Not, for examples, you woke up one day and lied after not lying for years.  If a person knowingly dishonoring God in ways that He is plain about and has never had any victory over sin at all, then perhaps that person hasn't received Christ.  But that does not mean that a Christian is sinless, that simply isn't true.

Another thing you should notice in that same section of scripture is that John himself makes is clear that "it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is".  Similar to what Paul said it 1 Cor 13, it we won't be done and completely free of our sin nature that plagues us until we see Him. And earlier in the text Johh himself says this:

 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

1 John 2
 1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[c] the sins of the whole world. 

He makes is clear that anyone who says they dont' sin is a straight up LIAR. But at the same time he's writing so that we don't sin!  The word should empower us to learn from our mistakes and not sin, but know that if you do fall because of the finished work on the cross, God has let it go because we are His children and He loves us.  He may not be crazy about what we did, but that doesn't change His love for us one iota.

So I hope that helps.  Christ not only takes away our sin, but the guilt of sin.  We're not supposed to feel awful after we've confessed and received forgiveness from Him.  It takes a while to realize that, one thing that helped me (cuz I had issues with that based on my upbringing) was to do a word study on righteousness.  I personally don't want to be a slave to sin, and that's why I'm saved, but I know that change just takes time and I can be rest assured that through the process God is with me and He's absolutely crazy about me.


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## Supergirl (Mar 9, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> I've been reading my Bible alot lately and I cannot get around the fact that God does not want us to sin. God does not say it is okay to sin every now and then. God hates sin. It displeases Him.
> 
> 1star pointed out two verses that I have come across as well...
> 
> ...



Yes, God hates sin, so much so that he sent His only Son to die a horrible death that He didn't deserve because of sin. So when there is sin, yesterday, next week, next century, it has already been covered by the blood of the Lamb. 

"He who is born of God does not sin..." I have been taught that this verse and similar ones are referring to a _lifestyle of sin_. Christians will not have zero sins on their "record" once saved, but it is expected that we will not live a lifestyle of sin. If someone professes to be a Christian but lives a sinful lifestyle, we could officially question his/her salvation because there is no fruit being manifested from his/her so-called relationship with Christ. 

But to say that Christians do not and should not struggle with sin would be inaccurate. It may be a small (and small is subjective) thing, but we all have our areas that God is still perfecting. I once met a young woman that broke down crying as she talked about her struggle to not drive over the speed limit. She wasn't going 20 miles over or anything like that, but just a few miles over made her feel like she needed to head to the throne of grace. She was right--speeding is disobedience even if it's just 1 mile over the limit. Crazy example, but true, and I hope I made the point!


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## Hair2Here (Mar 9, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> I saw this blog on Facebook from someone name Gabriel. What do you ladies think about it?
> 
> 
> *1 Peter 4:1 says, "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin."*
> ...


 
Do you believe we sin because we want to sin?

Yes, absolutely.  However, there are times when we unknowingly sin against God.  We may not know it at the time but the Holy Spirit has a way of revealing these things to us and this is when we must confess.

Do you think we can live without sin like Jesus? Why or why not?

Jesus was the Son of God and was w/o sin.  Sure we can live w/o sin.  The question is does our flesh want to?  "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity".  When we received the gift of salvation or when we were born again, we now must be dead to sin.  We are still in our fleshly bodies and tempted daily.  Our flesh is weak and we should should seek the source of our strength to resist temptations.  With the help of the Holy Spirit, we have to learn how to be dead to sin.

What is your Christian denomination/sect, etc.?

Holiness


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## phynestone (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't believe we can live a sin free life from birth until death because that would insinuate that we are perfect beings, and we are not. The Bible says it is in our nature to sin, but we are to be as much like Christ as possible. He is the only person that has walked this earth and has lived a sin free life. I do believe sometimes we sin because we want to and other times, we honestly don't know. 

I am Lutheran.


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## HeChangedMyName (Mar 10, 2010)

Sin is a choice, however, because of our flesh nature, we are lured easily toward sin.

It's not always as simple as just  not sinning.  Sin starts in the mind and unless you keep the Word in your mind 24/7/365 sin will always creep in, we just have to know how to recognize it before it manifests in a way that comes out of our minds.

We can do that by changing what we say, how we say it, whom we fellowship with, what we look at, listen to and the activities we participate in.

for example. . .for a former hoochiefied Christian, it's probably not a good idea to be shopping in a store like. . . .Rainbow.  lol.  might get tempted to get some hoochified clothing with may lead to clubing which may lead to who knows what else.

Women who have been saved from a life of whoring around by submitting to God and marrying, probably shouldn't be up in their girls bachelor party with the strippers giving out lap dances. . .

You get the point.  Sin is what it is, it's our choice to avoid it and it's sender(the devil).  It's not our place to tempt ourselves or God by trying to be strong through sinful influences.


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## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2010)

Supergirl said:


> "He who is born of God does not sin..." I have been taught that this verse and similar ones are *referring to a lifestyle of sin.* Christians will not have zero sins on their "record" once saved, but it is expected that we will not live a lifestyle of sin. If someone professes to be a Christian but lives a sinful lifestyle, we could officially question his/her salvation because there is no fruit being manifested from his/her so-called relationship with Christ.


 What is a lifestyle of sin??? Does it have to be a bunch of sins all at once? Does it have to be the sins that are considered worse than others? Can't someone have a lifestyle of just one sin?

What's the difference in a Christian who fornicates everyday and a non-Christian who fornicates once a month?  Is that Christian who fornicates everyday really saved? And what if that Christian really feels bad about fornicating but continues to do it?  There's something wrong there, wouldn't you think? Does that fornicating Christian really believe in Jesus and His purpose of dying on the cross for the punishment of our sins?


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## plainj (Mar 10, 2010)

I haven't read all the posts yet but I agree with what the blog says. We don't have to sin. I believe we can live a sin free life. We are called to be holy, set apart, different from the rest of the world by not sinning. We will never be Jesus but we must follow Jesus and be like Him. Of course we're going to make unintentional mistakes but we don't live it and we strive to stop doing that. I'm a non-denominational Protestant Christian.


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## plainj (Mar 10, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> Simply believing can't be enough for salvation. If that were the case, all those other commands that God gave us in the Bible wouldn't be there.
> 
> What do you think?


I personally believe it _is_ enough for salvation because when you believe in Jesus, you'll live for Him and will strive not to sin; won't want to sin. You'll live to please Him.


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## plainj (Mar 10, 2010)

Supergirl said:


> I once met a young woman that broke down crying as she talked about her struggle to not drive over the speed limit. She wasn't going 20 miles over or anything like that, but just a few miles over made her feel like she needed to head to the throne of grace. *She was right--speeding is disobedience even if it's just 1 mile over the limit.* Crazy example, but true, and I hope I made the point!


Disobedience to who? A speed limit is a man made law not a God made law. Can you explain further what you mean. I don't understand.


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## plainj (Mar 10, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> What is a lifestyle of sin??? Does it have to be a bunch of sins all at once? Does it have to be the sins that are considered worse than others? Can't someone have a lifestyle of just one sin?
> 
> What's the difference in a Christian who fornicates everyday and a non-Christian who fornicates once a month?  Is that Christian who fornicates everyday really saved? And what if that Christian really feels bad about fornicating but continues to do it?  There's something wrong there, wouldn't you think? Does that fornicating Christian really believe in Jesus and His purpose of dying on the cross for the punishment of our sins?


Great example Poohbear. I have a girlfriend who professes to be a Christian. She goes to church weekly. She professes to be a prophettess. She's married but separated and lives with her boyfriend. When we speak on the phone occasionally our conversation is centered on God and how good He is. I'm not convinced that she is truly born again based on her lifestyle of sin. I've called her on it before and she got mad at me and said I was judging her. I'm praying for her.


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2010)

plainj said:


> Disobedience to who? A speed limit is a man made law not a God made law. Can you explain further what you mean. I don't understand.


Thanks. I wonder about speeding and other man-made laws. If we break the man-made laws, like the small ones (like speeding, parking in the wrong spot, etc.), are we really disobeying God?  I know there's a verse in the bible about respecting your authorities or higher power, but I feel like that verse is referring to God, not man.

I also feel like speeding has been newly considered as a sin to make it an excuse to do other sins that we don't want to give up and to make the excuse of "Oh, we can't stop sinning. We sin everyday. Everything is a sin, etc."

But I don't know. Maybe I think too much.


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## MSee (Mar 11, 2010)

Pooh thank you for inspiring me to do a study that I should have don since last week after I was berated and insulted for implying that Christians do sin and they are punished (chastised is more accurate I guess) for it. For give me if my response is long and a bit rambling. I’m still learning.

Can we live sin free? 
I think we can based on some of the scriptures pointed out and I would add 1 Corinthians 10:13

But will we live sin free?? For many of us, No. (I’ll give my 2 cents on this in another post)
_1 Corinthians 10:13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it_.
A way out. I believe that Way is Jesus.
This whole chapter is good to read. We can over come sin through Christ. His sacrifice is no slight matter.
Romans 6:
 8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 
 11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 
*Slaves to Righteousness *

 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 
 19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord.


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## MSee (Mar 11, 2010)

*Will we stop sinning??? Personally most of us won’t and I am grateful for God’s provision of repentance and also His chastisement.*

*Romans 6: Struggling With Sin  *

 7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."[b] 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 
 11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. 
 14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 
 21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! 
      So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.


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## MSee (Mar 11, 2010)

The lengths of my posts are due to the passages of scripture but I believe they are more significant than my own opinion.

Thankfully God made a way for us to return to Him through repentance in Christ.1 John 1:7-9  7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[a] sin.  8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

I think there is a reason what we call the Lord’s Prayer is structured as it is in Matthew 6:9-13. God knows we do need His help to stay out of temptation and should remember to ask daily. There are 3 other passages that comes to my mind also. One indicating that there are different categories of sin and the others that there are serious consequences for willful sin. 
_The 1st: 1 John 5:15-17 _
  16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

2nd & 3rd :  Which I believe is more about backsliding than just a one off sin but it is good reason for me to consider my ways: Hebrews 6
 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,  5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,  6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 
Hebrews 10
 26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,  27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.  28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:  29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 

I have a lot more thoughts on the matter but I do believe as Christians we should do as Paul said in Phillipians 2: 12 
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, *work out your own salvation with fear and trembling*.
And remember that sin has consequences and God will not sit by and let His children do what He hates without dealing with them as a Father. 
*2 Samuel 7:14 *

 14I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

*Hebrews 12* (excellent chapter. Verse 1 admonishes us to lay aside besetting sins)
 4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:  6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 
*Revelation 3:19 *

 19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
I have seen Christians take grace as a license to sin as they please. I have seen Christians who said they don’t believe Christians can sin and so they justify their ‘mistakes’ as non issues. Pooh you have done what I believe all Christians need to do prayerfully search the scriptures and listen with a teachable spirit. Again forgive my rambling.

Be blessed


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2010)

MSee said:


> Pooh thank you for inspiring me to do a study that I should have don since last week after I was berated and insulted for implying that Christians do sin and they are punished (chastised is more accurate I guess) for it. For give me if my response is long and a bit rambling. I’m still learning.
> 
> Can we live sin free?
> I think we can based on some of the scriptures pointed out and I would add 1 Corinthians 10:13
> ...


 
Hey MSee. Thanks for your response. By the way, I haven't seen a problem with any of your posts.

I've read Romans 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 so many times. Lol. I get so confused at times.

About 1 Corinthians 10:13... I don't see how that's saying we will not live sin free. That verse is talking about temptation. Temptation isn't sin. If we give in to temptation, then that's when we sin.  I believe this verse to be true that God will not let us be tempted beyond what we can bear, in other words, we are not going to be overwhelmed with all these different temptations to sin, especially if we are rejecting our fleshly desires and choosing Jesus as our way out. Let our sinful nature suffer and abide in Jesus instead of doing the sin that is tempting us. As we grow and mature in Christ, we will be able to withstand temptation to the point where it's nothing to us. We'll be able to do like Jesus did in Matthews 4:1-11. Hope that makes sense.


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## makeupgirl (Mar 11, 2010)

No. Although we would love to live sin free that is not going to happen until we are in heaven.  We were all born with a sinful nature due to what Adam did in Eden so once you're saved, you now have 2 natures resided and are constantly going to battle each other.  God knew this, which is why we have to constantly pray without ceasing, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and if we do fall out of fellowship to confess and repent and then Jesus blood will once again wash us clean.


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2010)

MSee said:


> The lengths of my posts are due to the passages of scripture but I believe they are more significant than my own opinion.
> 
> Thankfully God made a way for us to return to Him through repentance in Christ.1 John 1:7-9 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[a] sin. 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
> 
> ...


That's neat that you posted these scriptures. These are some of the same scriptures I came across when studying the Bible.

I started to see a contrast in how God was toward people in the Old Testament vs the New Testament.

In the Old Testament, there was the Law. People had to give up sin offerings and different sacrifices to pay for their sins. God would forgive them over and over for backsliding, or when God got fed up, he would destroy them.

In the New Testament, God sends His Son Jesus, God in the flesh, to show us how to live perfect and sinless.  In a way, it's like bringing God's people back to Him. He loved us so much that He came down on this Earth to dwell among us so we can see how to live right.  By truly believing in Christ's birth, death, burial, and resurrection, we repent of sins, be dead to sins, and abide in Him. He took the punishment of our sins.

That's why we have so many people pointing out hypocrites.  It's like how can you point out this person being a liar when you just got done gossipping about a friend?  How can you talk bad about someone who aborts a child when you are stealing money from a family member?  How can you talk about a homosexual going to hell when you are having sex with your unmarried girlfriend? And so on...

How can one go on sinning (let's say fornication), ask God for forgiveness, then 7 days later, do the same sin again and ask for forgiveness. That's the Old Testament way.  Repentance is completely turning away from sin...going and sinning NO more.  I don't know how else to get around that definition.  It has been watered down to "feeling sorry for sins and trying not to sin again" but that's not what God has called us to do. He hates sin and we should hate sin too and avoid it at all cost by suffering in the flesh if we believe in Him.


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2010)

makeupgirl said:


> No. Although we would love to live sin free that is not going to happen until we are in heaven. We were all born with a sinful nature due to what Adam did in Eden so once you're saved, you now have 2 natures resided and are constantly going to battle each other. God knew this, which is why we have to constantly pray without ceasing, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and if we do fall out of fellowship to confess and repent and then Jesus blood will once again wash us clean.


 
But what about this verse:

*2 Corinthians 5:17  "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.*"

Here's an interesting link I found as well: http://www.learnthebible.org/becoming-a-new-creature.html

Are we really Christians if we are continuing in our old nature of sin?


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## makeupgirl (Mar 11, 2010)

plainj said:


> Great example Poohbear. I have a girlfriend who professes to be a Christian. She goes to church weekly. She professes to be a prophettess. She's married but separated and lives with her boyfriend. When we speak on the phone occasionally our conversation is centered on God and how good He is. I'm not convinced that she is truly born again based on her lifestyle of sin. I've called her on it before and she got mad at me and said I was judging her. I'm praying for her.


 
Your girlfriend may be born again but is carnal in her thinking.  That's the danger of the sinful nature still living in us because it's so easy to do what the flesh wants to do.  However, some people just sin because they just want to have it their way.  Ask her how she came to know the Lord, if she hasn't already.  I say that because I hear people around me all the time say "I"m a Christian" but their walk doesn't show it and they don't show any of the fruits of the spirit.  If she's not, continue to pray that she will sincerely give her life to the Lord.


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## Laela (Mar 11, 2010)

Hi, Pooh,

How many sins are there?





Poohbear said:


> That's neat that you posted these scriptures. These are some of the same scriptures I came across when studying the Bible.
> 
> I started to see a contrast in how God was toward people in the Old Testament vs the New Testament.
> 
> ...


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2010)

Laela said:


> Hi, Pooh,
> 
> How many sins are there?


There's alot of sins, but is that an excuse for Christians to sin? Lately, I've been thinking no, that is not an excuse to sin.  

Take a look at what makeupgirl just said:



			
				makeupgirl said:
			
		

> Your girlfriend may be born again but is carnal in her thinking. That's the danger of the sinful nature still living in us because it's so easy to do what the flesh wants to do. However, some people just sin because they just want to have it their way. Ask her how she came to know the Lord, if she hasn't already. I say that because *I hear people around me all the time say "I"m a Christian" but their walk doesn't show it and they don't show any of the fruits of the spirit.* If she's not, continue to pray that she will sincerely give her life to the Lord.


 
This is what I am talking about... 

We say we can't live without sin, but then we judge someone who claims to be a Christian who is doing a certain sin...

How do we differentiate between a person willingfully sinning and unconsciously sinning? I don't think there's a way to sin unconsciously. We are all alive here. The sins against God are all pointed out in the Bible. We can't go around saying "I just had sex with my boyfriend. I feel so bad. Please Lord forgive me! I'm trying my hardest to live right." Then turn around and have sex with him again and say "I'm just a Christian working out my salvation. I don't do anything else bad." So what! All sin is displeasing to God, no matter how many you're doing or what type of sin it is. 

What do you think?


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## makeupgirl (Mar 11, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> But what about this verse:
> 
> *2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.*"
> 
> ...


 
We are new creatures in Christ once we become born again, the old man that we were born is not buried and gone because we still live in human flesh and it's corruptable. In fact one of Satan's ways to get us to sin is by appealing to the lust of the flesh, as well as the eyes and the pride of life.  So we still have the flesh and the Spirit of God in us battling out inside of us.  God knows we are going to sin even though we are his kids and even if we try hard not to.  Whoever said being a Christian is easy was wrong.  It's the most hardest thing to be.  That's why we have to die to self and ask God to give us the strength and the guidance and wisdom to be the person he wants us to be.  We must always be filled with his Spirit because it's easy to fall out of the will of God.  

Anything we've done in the past is over once you've accepted Christ but once you are in Christ your way of thinking changes, your conversation should be all about him and the glory, honor, and praise that we give him.  If you fall out of line then you know to go before God's throne and ask for forgiveness and repent.  You know that his blood is going to continuely(sp?) wash us white as snow once we confess the sin that has offended him.  

So when we become a Christian, then the slate is clean.  When you confess and repent of your sins, the slate is clean.  This doesn't mean that we are completely off the hook.  We're still chastised and we still have to give an account to God as to why we went against his word but this is confirmation that we belong to him and he is our God, Savior, and our Heavenly Father.


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## makeupgirl (Mar 11, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> There's alot of sins, but is that an excuse for Christians to sin? Lately, I've been thinking no, that is not an excuse to sin.
> 
> Take a look at what makeupgirl just said:
> 
> ...


 
Amen sister!  That's exactly what I had to learn that once you've repented, you have agreed with God that you will not do that particular sin again.  I had that same problem when it came to sex and I wasn't married.  I kept on doing it, feeling awful but I was asking him forgiveness  but still doing what I was doing.  Until I really got into the Word and learned that having sex, masterbation (sp?) was fornication and realized that I was going against his word.  So now when I do have these urges, I start praying and also a hymn or gospel song comes to my mind so that I know that I can't hide the sin and also that once I start sinning, I am out of the will of God.


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## Nefertiti0906 (Mar 11, 2010)

*Do you believe we sin because we want to sin?*
I believe we sin because it's part of human nature, there's no one perfect, no not one. I think that's why Jesus paid the price for our sins because we as humans are always prone to sin. 


*Do you think we can live without sin like Jesus? Why or why not?*
I don't think we can live without sin like Jesus, because none of us are perfect. 


*What is your Christian denomination/sect, etc.? *Non-denominational


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## Laela (Mar 11, 2010)

My point is everyone has a different weakness.
That is why a Christian man whose weakness isn't sex can turn away from a Jezebel type with no feelings, while another who has that weakness could PROBABLY sin. He could resist by being in the Spirit but if he's carnal, he'll likely give in. The woman was never a temptation to the first man. 

Temptation is a test or trial specifically designed for each of us, based on our weakness, to cause us to sin against God.  The devil knows our weaknesses, that is the ONLY way he can attack us. Once he gets a foot hold into our lives, it becomes a Stronghold in our mind. 

Can we change our Mindset? Of course. If a Christian truly works on their  weaknesses through renewal of the mind (ACT OF FAITH) after professing Jesus a Savior, they will conquer those sins and Jesus will be Lord of their life.  That's how we CHANGE. But we can't change without exercising our Faith.

Can this be done all at once? Of course not...This is where I see you are stuck. I'm not making any excuses, but those who KNOW better, do better. Emphasis on know. Which means someone has  'heard' the Word and it makes sense to them and they GET IT. So they move from being a Hearer to a Doer of God's Word. This is why there are Christians who take years to mature to 'perfection'. While others get on fire right away and are more mature than folks who have been saved for years. 

Are there Christians with NO weaknesses? Possibly, if they've conquered them all and are living in the Spirit. There have been examples on earth and one of the was taken by God, not even feeling the sting of death. So yes we CAN live Sin free.

At the same token, I'll also point out that there are different types/levels of Christians: Natural, Carnal, Spiritual. The Spiritual Christian has developed the Mindset to not walk in the flesh AND they know what their weaknesses are and have triumphed over them.  Understanding this will help us meet people where they are in their Walk, because where they are depends on where they are in their Mind (Soul). You can't lump all Christians in the same boat.  Just as there are old people, babies and teens, there are different Christians in Christ.

And it really is possible to 'sin' without knowing, because we can sin in words, deeds _and _thoughts. We could grieve the Holy Spirit, even with our thoughts! We don't always have to act out to sin. The sin can be internal: an unforgiveness against someone who did something to us, that we internalized; T*he only person who would know about this is the Holy Spiri*t. This is where Conviction comes in and this why we must pray without ceasing, to ask God to renew our hearts/mind DAILY. It's true that Jesus was an example for us in the flesh to know our temptations, but don't forget that He also *IS GOD. * 
However*, *if God is in us, we have the help we need to RESIST temptation and live a life free of the guilt of sin. Again, please don't read this as an excuse to sin.  If we say we Love God, we will WANT to always do what is right, to please Him.

Also, Jesus taught us also about sin and forgiveness in Luke 17:1-6:

_"If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. [4] If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."_

*Is Jesus giving us an excuse to sin here?* Of course not.  Forgiveness is how we stay connected to God, because He loves us (Spiritual selves)  in spite of our 'sinful nature' (earthly bodies).





Poohbear said:


> There's alot of sins, but is that an excuse for Christians to sin? Lately, I've been thinking no, that is not an excuse to sin.
> 
> Take a look at what makeupgirl just said:
> 
> ...


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## Laela (Mar 11, 2010)

You moved from being a Hearer, to a Doer.... case in point. Amen





makeupgirl said:


> Amen sister!  That's exactly what I had to learn that once you've repented, you have agreed with God that you will not do that particular sin again.  I had that same problem when it came to sex and I wasn't married.*  I kept on doing it, feeling awful but I was asking him forgiveness  but still doing what I was doing.  Until I really got into the Word and learned that having sex, masterbation (sp?) was fornication and realized that I was going against his word. * So now when I do have these urges, I start praying and also a hymn or gospel song comes to my mind so that I know that I can't hide the sin and also that once I start sinning, I am out of the will of God.


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## plainj (Mar 11, 2010)

makeupgirl said:


> Your girlfriend may be born again but is carnal in her thinking.  That's the danger of the sinful nature still living in us because it's so easy to do what the flesh wants to do.  However, some people just sin because they just want to have it their way.  Ask her how she came to know the Lord, if she hasn't already.  I say that because I hear people around me all the time say "I"m a Christian" but their walk doesn't show it and they don't show any of the fruits of the spirit.  If she's not, continue to pray that she will sincerely give her life to the Lord.


makeupgirl, thanks for your response. I'll have to disagree with you on my friend being born again. Maybe I'm not being open enough to how God touches people and rebirths them but that just wasn't my experience. I was in the world. No drugs, drinking or smoking or anything like that. I considered myself to be a good person. I just didn't have a relationship with Christ. Didn't know Him. Didn't want to know anyone who knew Him. When He touched me I wasn't even looking for Him (although my sisters in Christ insist I was--I don't feel like I was). N e way, when I got reborn, I didn't want to have anything to do with sin. I had no desire to lie, or cheat, or steal or do anything displeasing to God. All I wanted to do was please Him. I wanted to live for Him. I'm not perfect but when I do something that I know is not right (or sometimes I may not know it is not right), I am very convicted (not condemned) by it. That's why I just can't understand how if one is truly born again, he/she doesn't feel _something_ when they do the smallest thing wrong. How can they not desire to live to please the God who created them, who saved them.
I do however love your idea of asking my friend how she came to know the Lord. I will.


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## plainj (Mar 11, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> T We can't go around saying "I just had sex with my boyfriend. I feel so bad. Please Lord forgive me! I'm trying my hardest to live right." Then turn around and have sex with him again and say "I'm just a Christian working out my salvation. I don't do anything else bad." So what! All sin is displeasing to God, no matter how many you're doing or what type of sin it is.
> 
> What do you think?


Poohbear, this is exactly what my friend does. She shrugs it off by saying "God knows my heart". I just don't understand it. It hurts to see it.


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## makeupgirl (Mar 11, 2010)

plainj said:


> makeupgirl, thanks for your response. I'll have to disagree with you on my friend being born again. Maybe I'm not being open enough to how God touches people and rebirths them but that just wasn't my experience. I was in the world. No drugs, drinking or smoking or anything like that. I considered myself to be a good person. I just didn't have a relationship with Christ. Didn't know Him. Didn't want to know anyone who knew Him. When He touched me I wasn't even looking for Him (although my sisters in Christ insist I was--I don't feel like I was). N e way, when I got reborn, I didn't want to have anything to do with sin. I had no desire to lie, or cheat, or steal or do anything displeasing to God. All I wanted to do was please Him. I wanted to live for Him. I'm not perfect but when I do something that I know is not right (or sometimes I may not know it is not right), I am very convicted (not condemned) by it. That's why I just can't understand how if one is truly born again, he/she doesn't feel _something_ when they do the smallest thing wrong. How can they not desire to live to please the God who created them, who saved them.
> I do however love your idea of asking my friend how she came to know the Lord. I will.


 
I understand where you're coming from.  I was in the world also but I didn't smoke, drink or do drugs because I was too young.  I didn't get saved until I was 20.  But, I feel ya most definitely.  I love serving and worshiping the Lord.  It's like when you become apart of his family, that's all you really want to do, at least we should feel like this.  I'll also pray for your friend.  You never know, it maybe you that will be the one to lead her to Christ or at least would have planted the seed.  I pray that the seed will grow and that she comes to a saving knowledge.


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## makeupgirl (Mar 11, 2010)

plainj said:


> Poohbear, this is exactly what my friend does. She shrugs it off by saying *"God knows my heart".* I just don't understand it. It hurts to see it.


 
I hate when people say this.


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## empressaja (Mar 12, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> Thanks. I wonder about speeding and other man-made laws. If we break the man-made laws, like the small ones (like speeding, parking in the wrong spot, etc.), are we really disobeying God?  I know there's a verse in the bible about respecting your authorities or higher power, but I feel like that verse is referring to God, not man.
> 
> I also feel like speeding has been newly considered as a sin to make it an excuse to do other sins that we don't want to give up and to make the excuse of "Oh, we can't stop sinning. We sin everyday. Everything is a sin, etc."
> 
> But I don't know. Maybe I think too much.



We are to also obey the laws of the land which are man made laws.

Romans 13:1-7  1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. *The authorities that exist have been established by God. *2C*onsequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3*For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


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## Poohbear (Mar 12, 2010)

birdie said:


> We are to also obey the laws of the land which are man made laws.
> 
> Romans 13:1-7 1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. *The authorities that exist have been established by God. *2C*onsequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3*For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


 
I wasn't asking for the verse. I know the verse is in the Bible. 

However, whatever Bible you have is different than what King James Version Bible says: *"1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. *
* 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. "* ...and so on

Who's to say who everyone's higher power is?  God is my higher power... no man (police, president, pastor, etc.) is not my higher power.

But anyway, my point is this, people still use their sin as an excuse to keep on sinning. We can stop speeding in our cars as well as any other thing that's against the law or against God. Why won't anyone address that issue? Why do we continue to ignore that Jesus died for our sins, but yet, we keep on sinning and claim to be born of God and believers of Jesus Christ?


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## HeChangedMyName (Mar 12, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> I wasn't asking for the verse. I know the verse is in the Bible.
> 
> However, whatever Bible you have is different than what King James Version Bible says: *"1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. *
> *2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. "* ...and so on
> ...


 
your reason right there.  It's human nature.  It is possible for us to stop completely cold turkey and never turn back.  Jesus proved that it is possible.  BUT, he was created sinless and his purpose required him to be sinless.

I believe that God has a specific purpose for each of us and whatever path we go down, if we learn to turn it over to him, then that purpose can be fulfilled.  Example. . .I am a single mother.  had sex way too early, I wasn't directed in the ways of the Bible hard core.  So. . .I am straight up with all the young ladies in my life about the reality.  premarital sex is a sin.  period.  point blank.  For me it wasn't sufficient that my mother told me not to, but maybe if I tell girls that God said not to, then they will change their ways.  I disclose to any and everyone I can that being a single mother is not cute.  I don't do the baby mama title, but so many little girls want that and I stop them right there in their tracks. . .all of this is my testimony and it started with a sin.  A sin that has since been forgiven.


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## plainj (Mar 12, 2010)

Poohbear, I understand where you're coming from. The one scripture that keeps coming to mind as I read your posts is Matt 7:13-14 - 
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
I think the word "Christian" is thrown around too loosely and not many people truly know what it means to be (and live as) a Christian. I was one of those people. I called myself a Christian because I went to church; because I wasn't an atheist, Buddhist or Muslim; because I had to identify with something. I just didn't know. Not everyone who professes to be Christian truly is one. Sometimes they don't even know it. We need to continue to pray them into or back into the Kingdom. Stay focused on Christ.


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## empressaja (Mar 17, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> I wasn't asking for the verse. I know the verse is in the Bible.
> 
> However, whatever Bible you have is different than what King James Version Bible says: *"1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. *
> * 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. "* ...and so on
> ...




I believe it's the NIV.  This is the only place in the KJV that the phrase "higher powers" are used together. This says to me that Paul isn't speaking about God but of the powers put in place by God when he gave dominion of the earth over to mankind.

But to kind of answer your original question. 

Can we live sin-free lives ?no, the fact that we must die daily to the flesh comes from us living in a fallen world because of the Original sin of Adam
Why are we to believe that we can live sin free lives in a fallen world? We are not sinners because we sin. We are called sinners because of Adam sin. And because of Jesus we are made righteous due to his finished work on the cross not just what we did but for what we will do.  
With the whole speeding comment it really isn't about the speeding it is about the rebellious nature, the intent, the heart in which those actions stem from.

I believe we all have a tendency to be "sin-conscious" when we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. We should be righteousness conscious. "Awake to righteous and sin not. 
1Cor 15:34. I believe when we believe right we are transformed and begin to change to his image but from glory to glory and subsequently live right!

Can you explain this question further.*Why do we continue to ignore that Jesus died for our sins, but yet, we keep on sinning and claim to be born of God and believers of Jesus Christ?*


Are you saying that when individuals sin we are ignoring that Jesus died for those sin? 

We are born of God  and can claim that identity not because of what we DO but because of what we BELIEVE. Because the Word says so.

I really liked this discussion. I hope that it continues ~Blessings~


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