# Another Mass Shooting. This One In El Paso, Tx



## SoniT (Aug 3, 2019)

Another day in America. When will it stop???

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/el-paso-tx-shooting-live-updates/index.html


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## KidneyBean86 (Aug 3, 2019)




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## GinnyP (Aug 3, 2019)




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## Laela (Aug 3, 2019)

This is Trump's fault...prayers go out to all these families.  This nut case drove 10 hrs to shoot up a predominantly Hispanic area in protest to race-mixing? Pure terrorism


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## meka72 (Aug 3, 2019)

Laela said:


> This is Trump's fault...prayers go out to all these families.  This nut case drove 10 hrs to shoot up a predominantly Hispanic area in protest to race-mixing? Pure terrorism


Now you know this is Obama’s fault


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## Kiowa (Aug 3, 2019)

It won't stop..
Thoughts and Prayers aren't working...
This is the second shoot up in a Walmart this week...


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## meka72 (Aug 3, 2019)




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## Everything Zen (Aug 3, 2019)

Kiowa said:


> It won't stop..
> Thoughts and Prayers aren't working...
> This is the second shoot up in a Walmart this week...



Agreed.

Someone tried to smuggle a gun into Lollapalooza yesterday but was caught. I heard that Chicago PD are occupying/renting hotel rooms at the major hotels surround Grant park for these festivals only after what happened at Las Vegas (not seeing it advertised though):
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-handgun-bushes-bushes-michigan-avenue-lollapalooza-20190803-fv7xknqqonc7vlzywzxrnsiu2e-story.html?outputType=amp


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## SoniT (Aug 3, 2019)

At least 20 people are dead.


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## Southernbella. (Aug 3, 2019)

As long as it's white men doing it, nothing will change. Deep down, all of them are feeling threatened and defeated by the browning of America. The wm in power empathize with these murderers.


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## moneychaser (Aug 3, 2019)

meka72 said:


>



So the parents ran off without their kids????


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## PhonyBaloney500 (Aug 3, 2019)

moneychaser said:


> So the parents ran off without their kids????


Or were shot?


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## meka72 (Aug 3, 2019)

moneychaser said:


> So the parents ran off without their kids????


I  couldn’t figure that out either. But I assumed that the kids were dropped off at the mall or were Just in a different store than the parents.


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## LavenderMint (Aug 3, 2019)

moneychaser said:


> So the parents ran off without their kids????


Honestly, my thought was that the kids (depending on age but the guy said he was picking them up) probably panicked and scattered. Before we do fire drills, intruder drills and lockdown drills in my school, I have to teach my kids how to react to the sounds of the alerts. For my pre-k students, it’s always shocking, even at the end of the year; there’s _always_ kids that just freeze in fear or attempt to dart away.


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## GinnyP (Aug 3, 2019)

SoniT said:


> At least 20 people are dead.


When they announced the gunman was still alive,  I said ohhhhh he’s white.....21 yo white male.


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## SoopremeBeing (Aug 3, 2019)

Laela said:


> This is Trump's fault...prayers go out to all these families.  This nut case drove 10 hrs to shoot up a predominantly Hispanic area in protest to race-mixing? Pure terrorism



Yet if you look at history, race mixing wasn’t rampant until White People wanted to take over everything. The lack of logic with these terrorists is the scariest part of it all.


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## Nay (Aug 3, 2019)

I also attribute the sensationalism of these news stories to copycat shooters.  Ever since Columbine these young white losers have been wanting their 15 minutes of fame.  You know idiots don't have an original thought.


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## msbettyboop (Aug 4, 2019)

Have y'all read his "manifesto?" 

This person is a mad man - https://media.8ch.net/file_store/7e...cedfb854dbdd7c3559b1c5afa0e15d63402d39934.pdf

PS. Let me know if you want me to remove the link.


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## sgold04 (Aug 4, 2019)

White supremacist violence will continue to escalate as the 2020 election approaches (even more so if he wins again) and nothing will be done about it. I definitely miss the relative sense of safety I felt living in hella Black and/or nonwhite cities, but I guess this shooting shows that doesn’t matter anymore, they’ll drive to us to take a large number of us out.


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## Everything Zen (Aug 4, 2019)

msbettyboop said:


> Have y'all read his "manifesto?"
> 
> This person is a mad man
> 
> PS. Let me know if you want me to remove the link.



If we’re talking about not giving these shooters the attention they crave I’d remove it. Can’t speak for anyone else but I’m not going to read it.


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## Anacaona (Aug 4, 2019)

Another one in Dayton, Ohio.....


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## Shula (Aug 4, 2019)

I'm not trying to sound alarmist but I truly believe they want a race war. They've been itching for Civil War 2.0 since the last one. Look at their rush to stockpile weapons when 44 won as if they already weren't outfitted in arsenals. And now they have political leaders stoking it and legitimizing their fears.


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## Kiowa (Aug 4, 2019)

Anacaona said:


> Another one in Dayton, Ohio.....



Lawd.....


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## Kiowa (Aug 4, 2019)

Shula said:


> I'm not trying to sound alarmist but I truly believe they want a race war. They've been itching for Civil War 2.0 since the last one. Look at their rush to stockpile weapons when 44 won as if they already weren't outfitted in arsenals. And now they have political leaders stoking it and legitimizing their fears.



Well...if they think they are the only ones that stockpiled....


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## Kalia1 (Aug 4, 2019)

Trump has emboldened the racist hate filled populous. Continuously Trump is unchecked or censored. Therefore those who share similar views or even worse than his see these heinous acts as justifiable.

Some may desire a race war yet I believe majority want “ethnic cleansing”. These folks modus operandi is to terrorize in an unannounced way those who pose no real threat to them yet resemble those whom they despise.

The government MUST call these incidences domestic terrorism and vigilantly DO SOMETHING before it gets even worse!


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## sharentu (Aug 4, 2019)

i truly feel that these folks have some kind of schedule.  i don't think any of this is random.   they know they wont be killed.  but in doing these 'missions', they take out part of 'the problem'.  suicide bombers are never random.  they are given their orders by someone.


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## GinnyP (Aug 4, 2019)

Shula said:


> I'm not trying to sound alarmist but I truly believe they want a race war. They've been itching for Civil War 2.0 since the last one. Look at their rush to stockpile weapons when 44 won as if they already weren't outfitted in arsenals. And now they have political leaders stoking it and legitimizing their fears.


I am so sick of this mess!   What can be done?  
I feel we have no leaders to speak out anymore.  Everybody is only running for office to fatten their pockets.  
God please help us.


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## SoniT (Aug 4, 2019)

I wake up to hear about yet another shooting in Dayton where 9 people were killed and 26 injured. We cant go to the movies, schools, stores, bars without worrying about some crazed, evil person shooting people. Its sick. This is crazy. This is America.


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## Everything Zen (Aug 4, 2019)

Between the shootings in the streets of my neighborhood and all these mass shootings I bailed out on an event that I really wanted to attend the other night all dressed up and ready to go at the last minute bc I didn’t feel safe with my options of getting home at such a late hour by myself. That is not like my character and I feel like President Obama encouraged us to continue to live our lives and not be afraid. This man does nothing but sow contention and discord. He continued his golf game when he was notified about El Paso and sent out a tweet late at night. I’m seeing myself becoming a hermit unless I have to travel for work and even then pretty much staying in the hotels.


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## SoopremeBeing (Aug 4, 2019)

My boyfriend wants to go to a Rebelution concert this weekend, and this is one of many reasons I don’t want to go.

It’s becoming more apparent that certain places are being targeted....wholesome, family-oriented, minority-dominant, or some other eclectic mixing of people who came together to enjoy something fun....the things that White supremacists hate. They hate to see a town like Gilroy, CA where whites, Blacks, and Hispanics came together to enjoy a weekend of food and music, so they decide to ruin so many lives and families because it doesn’t match their ideals.

Same with El Paso....bunch of Black, Brown, and White families, who were trying to take advantage of the tax-free weekend, and prep their kiddies for school, and now another number of families have had their lives ruined, and some won’t get to see their children finish school.

My boyfriend went to a concert in VA Beach a few weeks ago. Since the police knew the crowd was mostly the stoner crowd, the security checks were light. Doesn’t sit well with me at all....yeah the CROWD may be chill, but we have a lot of Trump supporters in this open-carry state. Maybe I’m being dramatic...

And this country doesn’t care at all. I don’t believe that guns are the problem, but they have done NOTHING to make the vetting process harder for those who are trying to acquire weapons. Why does an average, non-military affiliates US citizen need a military-grade assault rifle?


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## Everything Zen (Aug 4, 2019)

I tried to look up some background on the El Paso shooter once I saw his picture and it sounds like he was bullied in school. No that doesn’t make it right but I think there is something to that book The Four Agreements and learning to be Impeccable with your Words:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-08-03/what-we-know-about-patrick-crusius-el-paso-rampage?_amp=true


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## meka72 (Aug 4, 2019)

Shula said:


> I'm not trying to sound alarmist but I truly believe they want a race war. They've been itching for Civil War 2.0 since the last one. Look at their rush to stockpile weapons when 44 won as if they already weren't outfitted in arsenals. And now they have political leaders stoking it and legitimizing their fears.


Someone I follow on Twitter (either a historian or law professor) said that we were going through a slow burning civil war.  I believe it.


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## Everything Zen (Aug 4, 2019)

I also think that we as constituents need to put pressure on our politicians to put white nationalist groups back on the the watch group and give them just as much attention as the Islamic terrorists. These hate groups are preying on vulnerable young men and radicalizing them online same as ISIS.


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## Kalia1 (Aug 4, 2019)

Perhaps just perhaps some don’t care because they KNOW as being white protects them from being the target of such hate.


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## ScorpioBeauty09 (Aug 4, 2019)

The House passed the Domestic Terrorism Protection Act which names white supremacy, requires FBI, DOJ and Homeland Security to study it and issue yearly reports, among other things.

In the Senate, Kamala, Booker, Bernie and seven others running for President were co-sponsors. But of course Mitch McConnell has not allowed a hearing or a vote.

ETA: I thought this bill had passed the House, it has not. It’s still in committee.


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## meka72 (Aug 4, 2019)

Everything Zen said:


> I also think that we as constituents need to put pressure on our politicians to put white nationalist groups back on the the watch group and give them just as much attention as the Islamic terrorists. These hate groups are preying on vulnerable young men and radicalizing them online same as ISIS.


Not going to happen man. As long as white nationalism is aligned with the GOP, that’s a negative ghost rider.


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## Kiowa (Aug 4, 2019)

Ohio shooter also shot his sister and her BF...they were found dead....looking for more information to see if they were inter racial couple...


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## Everything Zen (Aug 4, 2019)

This one has me scratching my head bc apparently the sister was a registered democrat and both parents had a SM presence that heavily criticized the alt-right and Trump on his rhetoric. It may not be race related he went into a country western themed bar.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts/amp/


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## ebonysweetie (Aug 4, 2019)

Kiowa said:


> Ohio shooter also shot his sister and her BF...they were found dead....looking for more information to see if they were inter racial couple...


6 out of the 9 victims killed in Ohio were black.


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## Southernbella. (Aug 4, 2019)

ebonysweetie said:


> 6 out of the 9 victims killed in Ohio were black.


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## Everything Zen (Aug 4, 2019)

Even the original owner of 8chan calls the site a terrorist refuge hiding in plain site 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/04/three-mass-shootings-this-year-began-with-hateful-screed-chan-its-founder-calls-it-terrorist-refuge-plain-sight/?outputType=comment&utm_term=.
*
Three mass shootings began with a hateful screed on 8chan. Its founder calls it a terrorist refuge in plain sight.*

Drew Harwell
August 4 at 11:59 AM

The El Paso massacre began like the fatal attacks earlier this year at mosques in New Zealand and a San Diego-area synagogue: with a racist manifesto and announcement on the anonymous message board 8chan, one of the Web’s most venomous refuges for extremist hate.

Like after the shootings in Christchurch and the Chabad of Poway synagogue, the El Paso attack was celebrated on 8chan as well: One of the most active threads early Sunday urged people to create memes and original content, or OC, that could make it easier to distribute and “celebrate the [gunman’s] heroic action.”

“You know what to do!!! Make OC, Spread OC, Share OC, Inspire OC,” an anonymous poster wrote. “Make the world a better place.”

Keep ReadinThe message board’s ties to mass violence have fueled worries over how to combat a Web-fueled wave of racist bloodshed. The El Paso shooting also prompted the site’s founder to urge its owners to “do the world a favor and shut it off.”

“Once again, a terrorist used 8chan to spread his message as he knew people would save it and spread it,” Fredrick Brennan, who founded 8chan in 2013 but stopped working with the site’s owners in December, told The Washington Post. “The board is a receptive audience for domestic terrorists.”

Understanding 8chan, the self-proclaimed 'darkest reaches of the internet'

The anonymous message board houses some of the most controversial content online. Here’s a look behind its rise in influence. (Adriana Usero, Melissa Macaya, Deirdra O'Regan/The Washington Post)
Twenty people were killed at an El Paso shopping center following an attack by a gunman, who police believe posted a jumbled and racist screed to 8chan minutes before the shooting that ranted against a “Hispanic invasion.” The writer claims he was inspired by the Christchurch massacre, which also began with an 8chan post, and he urged viewers to “do your part and spread this brothers!”

Nine people were killed following a separate attack in Dayton, Ohio, early Sunday morning, hours after the El Paso shooting. It’s unclear if that shooter or attack had any connection to 8chan.

_[Investigators search for answers after gunman kills 20 in El Paso]_

The El Paso shooting, some terrorism experts said, could ratchet up the pressure on federal law enforcement and governmental authorities seeking to combat a site that calls itself “the darkest reaches of the Internet.”

The site has survived, extremism experts said, in part due to a reluctance from some law-enforcement and intelligence officials to categorize white-supremacist and far-right movements as terrorism threats. The site has for years been shielded by U.S. laws that limit websites’ legal liability for what their users post and has been further protected by an Internet infrastructure that makes it difficult to take sites down.

Some online researchers also fear that a shutdown of 8chan would only spur hate groups to organize elsewhere. The site’s leaders have appeared emboldened in the face of criticism, adding a message in recent months at the top of its homepage: “Embrace infamy.”

The site is registered as a property of the Nevada-based company N.T. Technology and owned by Jim Watkins, an American Web entrepreneur living in the Philippines. Asked for comment, Watkins replied with a single sentence: “I hope you are well.”

Watkins has declined interview requests after every mass shooting. Following the Christchurch massacre, he released a video defending the site as a refuge for free speech online and referring to the shooter as a criminal alien.

Watkins’s son Ron, who oversees the site, did not respond to requests for comment. He has mocked the idea that 8chan could do more to stop mass violence, tweeting in April: “Deletion within minutes is not enough, apparently.”

_[8chan looks like a terrorist recruiting site after the New Zealand shootings. Should the government treat it like one?]_

After the Poway shooting in April, 8chan’s Twitter account blamed the news media for publicizing the crime and said the suspected shooter’s post was taken down nine minutes after creation. But the board regularly allows posters afterward to promote the shooting, spew hateful comments and cheer on further violence to beat the last attack’s body count, or “high score.”

The Poway suspect wrote before the attack that he’d been visiting 8chan for “a year and a half, yet what I’ve learned here is priceless. It’s been an honor.”

Joan Donovan, the director of the Technology and Social Change Research Project at Harvard University’s Shorenstein Center, said posting to 8chan before a mass shooting has become a “tactical” way for attackers to gain attention and amplify their message.

“Mass shooters can control the public conversation about their motives, while at the same time provide the public with a clear explanation for their actions,” Donovan said.

She pointed to the pattern that has developed in the Christchurch, Poway and El Paso shootings: “1. Post a racist screed. 2. Carry out racist violence. 3. Inspire others to do the same.” Of the manifestos, she said, they “are becoming more instructive than they are explanatory. This has me very worried that targeted violence will become a meme itself.”

Shooters post their manifestos to 8chan, Brennan said, because the audience there celebrates racist, anti-Semitic and white-supremacist violence; moderation is nearly nonexistent, and it has a “morbid record of success for maximum spread.”

Clint Watts, a senior fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute and a former FBI counterterrorism expert, said 8chan mirrored the role that other fringe sites play in international terrorism, allowing “one-off extremists to connect and catalyze their operations.”

The 8chan board, he said, “has become the place where white nationalist extremists and anyone wanting to perpetrate violence can congregate, radicalize, plot attacks and share manifestos,” he said. “The increased interconnection between what would otherwise be lone actors accelerates the pace of attacks and their lethality.”

The FBI, he added, “needs the legislation and resources to pursue these inspired attacks the way they did international terrorism since 9/11.” He urged the federal government to designate white-nationalist-inspired violence a domestic terrorism threat, which would allow the FBI to more closely assess the calls to violence arising from 8chan and similar sites.

The FBI said in a statement in March that “individuals often are radicalized by looking at propaganda on social media sites and in some cases may decide to carry out acts of violence” but that the bureau “only investigates matters in which there is a potential threat to national security or a possible violation of federal law.”

In April, the FBI filed a search warrant of 8chan’s Nevada office seeking information on the Poway suspect’s activity and responses to his post.

Brennan also provided evidence that the manifesto first posted onto 8chan ahead of the El Paso shooting was real. He said the document’s name included the suspect’s name and that site data shows it was uploaded minutes before the first 911 call. Some “conspiracy theorists and 8chan apologists,” he said, have been pushing the idea that it was a fake. Police have also confirmed the document is real.

_[9 killed in Ohio in second U.S. mass shooting within 24 hours]_

The site, Brennan said, is kept online largely as a vanity project for Watkins and makes very little money, helping shield it from advertiser or public pressure. 8chan does not work with mainstream digital-ad networks but sells ad space directly to companies and solicits donations, which Brennan says probably earn the site about $100 a month.

The site protects itself from legal threats by removing copyrighted content but allows practically everything else onto the site without limits. Its servers, Brennan said, are distributed around the world, making it more difficult to take down. The site said a year ago that it had nearly 8 million users visit every month.

Pressure, however, is building on mainstream companies that help keep 8chan online. Cloudflare, a San Francisco-based firm that helps Web companies defend against cyberattacks, has continued to work with 8chan, saying it serves websites regardless of their content.

The activist group Sleeping Giants tweeted about Cloudflare’s connection early Sunday: “If you’re doing business with a site that helps people spread violent, racist ideologies, you are just as culpable. Full stop.”

Cloudflare’s general counsel, Douglas Kramer, told The Post on Sunday that the company had no short-term plans to change 8chan’s services, even though it explicitly bans terrorist-propaganda networks.

In 2017, Cloudflare terminated the account for the neo-Nazi site Daily Stormer after the Charlottesville violence, but Cloudflare chief executive Matthew Prince publicly agonized over the decision afterward, saying it marked a dangerous use of censorship power.

The company, Kramer said, is involved in discussions at the government level over how to police or regulate similar sites. But he said he worried that dropping the shield on 8chan would be tantamount to encouraging “cyber-vigilantism.”

“Inserting ourselves as the judge and jury on these things is very problematic,” he said. “It’s easy for folks to approach us with one website, but for us, we need to come up with a rule that we can apply to over 20 million different web properties.”


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## TrulyBlessed (Aug 4, 2019)

What is this


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## SoniT (Aug 4, 2019)

TrulyBlessed said:


> What is this


What??


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## Southernbella. (Aug 4, 2019)

TrulyBlessed said:


> What is this



Bruh.


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## Black Ambrosia (Aug 4, 2019)

They're lighting him up on twitter.


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## sgold04 (Aug 4, 2019)

TrulyBlessed said:


> What is this


Ahhh, so he one a dem n*****


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## Everything Zen (Aug 4, 2019)

How many of the suicides used a gun? If they didn’t have access to a gun they may still be alive. There are too many guns in this country - PERIOD.


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## scoobygirl (Aug 4, 2019)

TrulyBlessed said:


> What is this


This is such a disappointment coming from him. I expected more from him, not even sure why now. Going by his logic the body total on 911 was just a week’s worth of medical errors. Has he forgotten the point of terrorism is to inspire terror. In that regard these latest attacks have achieved what they say out to do. SMDH


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## oneastrocurlie (Aug 4, 2019)

One of the 9 victims in Ohio was a family member's son. It's so crazy to see their name in all these articles. Never would think a mass shooting would hit so very close to home.


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## SoniT (Aug 4, 2019)

oneastrocurlie said:


> One of the 9 victims in Ohio was a family member's son. It's so crazy to see their name in all these articles. Never would think a mass shooting would hit so very close to home.


I'm so sorry to hear that.


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## oneastrocurlie (Aug 4, 2019)

SoniT said:


> I'm so sorry to hear that.



Thank you


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## nyeredzi (Aug 4, 2019)

scoobygirl said:


> This is such a disappointment coming from him. I expected more from him, not even sure why now. Going by his logic the body total on 911 was just a week’s worth of medical errors. Has he forgotten the point of terrorism is to inspire terror. In that regard these latest attacks have achieved what they say out to do. SMDH


His point is probably exactly that, though. That you shouldn't let these attacks throw off your life because they are still a comparatively rare thing. I understand what he's saying, but it's not what people want to hear right now. Some deaths hit harder than others, for all kinds of reasons. And you're not going to get past people's natural responses with dispassioned calculations. A straight numbers to numbers comparison misses that.


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## discodumpling (Aug 5, 2019)

I am not here for y/t male fragility. I cannot begin to understand how I live in a country where this type of violence happens every single day. Each occurence leaves me more numb than the last...I'm truly out of f's to give. WE the people are powerless against this type of evil. We just living in it.


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## Black Ambrosia (Aug 5, 2019)

nyeredzi said:


> His point is probably exactly that, though. That you shouldn't let these attacks throw off your life because they are still a comparatively rare thing. *I understand what he's saying, but it's not what people want to hear right now. *Some deaths hit harder than others, for all kinds of reasons. And you're not going to get past people's natural responses with dispassioned calculations. A straight numbers to numbers comparison misses that.


This is essentially one of the first responses I saw on Twitter. Someone told him to “read the room bro.”


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## meka72 (Aug 5, 2019)

I’m so sorry for your family’s loss @oneastrocurlie


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## oneastrocurlie (Aug 5, 2019)

meka72 said:


> I’m so sorry for your family’s loss @oneastrocurlie



Thank you very much.


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## Makenzie (Aug 5, 2019)

oneastrocurlie said:


> One of the 9 victims in Ohio was a family member's son. It's so crazy to see their name in all these articles. Never would think a mass shooting would hit so very close to home.



I can't even imagine. So very sorry for your family's loss.


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## Ms. Tarabotti (Aug 5, 2019)

TrulyBlessed said:


> What is this





nyeredzi said:


> His point is probably exactly that, though. That you shouldn't let these attacks throw off your life because they are still a comparatively rare thing. I understand what he's saying, but it's not what people want to hear right now. Some deaths hit harder than others, for all kinds of reasons. And you're not going to get past people's natural responses with dispassioned calculations. A straight numbers to numbers comparison misses that.



I understand also but this is not an appropriate time to post such thoughts when emotions are raw.


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## Ms. Tarabotti (Aug 5, 2019)

oneastrocurlie said:


> One of the 9 victims in Ohio was a family member's son. It's so crazy to see their name in all these articles. Never would think a mass shooting would hit so very close to home.



I am so very sorry for the loss of your loved one in this fashion. Please let us know if you need anything.


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## dicapr (Aug 5, 2019)

So the Czar is going to try to hold the country hostage. Gun control can be passed but only if we accept his idea of immigration reform.


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## dicapr (Aug 5, 2019)

oneastrocurlie said:


> One of the 9 victims in Ohio was a family member's son. It's so crazy to see their name in all these articles. Never would think a mass shooting would hit so very close to home.



I’m sorry for the pain your family is having to endure due to this senseless act of  cowardice.


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## Ms. Tarabotti (Aug 5, 2019)

Ivanka Trump

✔@IvankaTrump

As our nation mourns the senseless loss of life in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio and prays for the victims and their loved ones, we must also raise our voices in rejection of these heinous and cowardly acts of hate, terror and violence.
63.1K
9:28 AM - Aug 4, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy
42.2K people are talking about this


She is being roasted on Twitter and rightfully so. Her father is part of reason why these things are happening with increasing frequency. Her father stokes the fire of racial animosity then tries to back pedal when things get to hot.


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## TrulyBlessed (Aug 5, 2019)

@oneastrocurlie Wow, I am so sorry to hear this   This country is in such a disgusting state. It’s infuriating. Wishing you and your family much strength and comfort.

A factual mess.


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## Guapa1 (Aug 5, 2019)

My deepest condolences @oneastrocurlie. x


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## oneastrocurlie (Aug 5, 2019)

Makenzie said:


> I can't even imagine. So very sorry for your family's loss.





Ms. Tarabotti said:


> I am so very sorry for the loss of your loved one in this fashion. Please let us know if you need anything.





dicapr said:


> I’m sorry for the pain your family is having to endure due to this senseless act of  cowardice.





TrulyBlessed said:


> @oneastrocurlie Wow, I am so sorry to hear this   This country is in such a disgusting state. It’s infuriating. Wishing you and your family much strength and comfort.
> 
> A factual mess.
> View attachment 449807





Guapa1 said:


> My deepest condolences @oneastrocurlie. x



Thank you all.


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## meka72 (Aug 5, 2019)

*Ohio Republican blames mass shootings on ‘drag queen advocates,’ Colin Kaepernick and Obama*
Alex Horton
In a laundry list of reasons why the United States is grappling with mass killings, an Ohio state lawmaker has settled on immigrants, same-sex marriage, transgender rights, disrespect toward veterans and “drag queen advocates.”

Candice Keller, a Republican state representative from Middletown, near Dayton, Ohio, where nine people were killed early Sunday, offered her diagnosis on her personal Facebook page, the Dayton Daily News reported. Her post came only hours after the Dayton shooting, as the nation still reeled from the Saturday mass killing of 20 people in El Paso and the discovery of an anti-immigrant, white nationalist manifesto believed to have been written by that alleged gunman.

Keller’s post sent shock waves through the state and local Republican Party, where there is a groundswell of calls from fellow conservatives urging her to resign, said Butler County Sheriff Richard K. Jones, who oversees law enforcement across Keller’s district.



_[The lives lost in Dayton]_

“It’s an embarrassment. It’s shameful. It does not reflect our party, our community, or the people who are hurting right now,” Jones told The Washington Post on Monday. “She only left out people who look like her.”

The comments stunned the mustachioed, cigar-chomping, pro-Trump lawman who himself has taunted immigrants with billboards but has called for civility amid toxic partisan politics. Jones said he was worried Keller’s posting would have a chilling effect on future victims in the county who may believe police officers have similar notions. “She made our job that much more difficult in law enforcement,” he said.

Jones declined to say who else in the county opposed Keller’s views but said there would soon be clearer signs of opposition within GOP ranks. He urged the national and state Republican Party to join the call for her resignation.

Other Republicans distanced themselves from Keller.

“Some want to politicize these events, and I cannot condone such comment and behavior,” Butler County GOP Executive Chairman Todd Hall said in a statement.

Keller did not return a request for comment.

Her list also included fatherless upbringing, violent video games and two arguments that conservatives have leveled at former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick — that kneeling protests over police brutality are insults to both law enforcement and veterans.

Amid an apparent rise of domestic terror arrests, Keller did not include anything about white nationalism, an ideology President Trump condemned Monday; the availability of semiautomatic assault rifles and 100-round ammunition drumslike the one used in the Dayton killings; or how the alleged killer legally obtained a firearm after he was kicked out of a high school for writing a list of girls he wanted to kill.

_[Beto O’Rourke: Trump ‘is inciting racism and violence in this country’]_

Keller also blamed President Barack Obama for “disrespect to law enforcement,” along with Democratic lawmakers, public schools and “snowflakes, who can’t accept a duly-elected President.” Her post was later either removed from view or deleted.



She has courted controversy before. At a 2018 gun rights rally a month after the Parkland high school killings, Keller saidthat a 15-year old survivor “would just as soon be eating Doritos and playing video games.”

Butler County Democratic Party Chairman Brian Hester said that Keller is symbolic of a bigger problem of racist and vitriolic language, some of it modeled after Trump, passing as “acceptable political discourse.”

It was especially offensive for Keller to say immigrants and LGBTQ acceptance played a role in mass shootings, Hester said. El Paso has a large immigrant community, and seven Mexican nationals were among the dead. The gay Orlando nightclub Pulse was targeted by a gunman who killed 49 people in 2016.



“It’s almost as if she wants to blame the people being targeted in these attacks,” Hester said. But he stopped short of demanding Keller resign. “It’s time for voters to reject her,” he said.

Jones, who wrote “Shame shame shame” in reference to Keller on Twitter, noted that Keller represents a diverse group of constituents across western Ohio.

“Some of the people she talked about in her rant, those people work for me. They’re family members,” he said. “She assaulted all of them.”


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## SoniT (Aug 5, 2019)

I have no words for what I just read in the post above.


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## sharentu (Aug 5, 2019)




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## ScorpioBeauty09 (Aug 5, 2019)

SO's brother lives in El Paso and one of my best friends lives in Dayton. My friend had just left the Oregon district when the shooting started. SO's brother was at home, or somewhere away from the Walmart. Too close to home.

I am so sorry for your loss @oneastrocurlie.


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## SoniT (Aug 5, 2019)

President Obama's statement is a breath of fresh air. I miss having an articulate leader.


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## Laela (Aug 6, 2019)

^^ I miss the nation having a Compassionate leader.... that monster we have in office needs to be locked up.  I'm wrestling with how Puerto Rico was quickly able to remove its president for doing the same thing Chump is doing...yet here we are. It only  shows many in Congress really  don't want him gone...just a bunch of talking in circles to let time go by....meanwhile, the people suffer. Well, they wanted a king...


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## Black Ambrosia (Aug 6, 2019)

Laela said:


> ^^ I miss the nation having a Compassionate leader.... that monster we have in office needs to be locked up.  *I'm wrestling with how Puerto Rico was quickly able to remove its president for doing the same thing Chump is doing...yet here we are.* It only  shows many in Congress really  don't want him gone...just a bunch of talking in circles to let time go by....meanwhile, the people suffer. Well, they wanted a king...


The difference is PR was united in its disgust with the governor. There are too many people and politicians who think everything is just fine with trump.


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## Kalia1 (Aug 6, 2019)

This brother right here DROPS IT!


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## SoniT (Aug 6, 2019)

^^Wow, he was on point!


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## RoundEyedGirl504 (Aug 6, 2019)

Kalia1 said:


> This brother right here DROPS IT!



Wow. That's it and that't all.


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## HappilyLiberal (Aug 6, 2019)

Kalia1 said:


> This brother right here DROPS IT!



I was in tears while watching that LIVE yesterday!


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## meka72 (Aug 6, 2019)

HappilyLiberal said:


> I was in tears while watching that LIVE yesterday!


Me too. It was incredibly powerful.


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## Southernbella. (Aug 6, 2019)

Kalia1 said:


> This brother right here DROPS IT!



Nothing but facts.


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## dicapr (Aug 6, 2019)

Kalia1 said:


> This brother right here DROPS IT!



Let the church say Amen!


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## Laela (Aug 6, 2019)

True dat!




Black Ambrosia said:


> The difference is PR was united in its disgust with the governor. There are too many people and politicians who think everything is just fine with trump.


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## TrulyBlessed (Aug 6, 2019)




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## sharentu (Aug 6, 2019)

interesting read  https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...t4dPfYWH1XeorukQOszuMTnARMnWfW_5i7gIlir-dxOvA


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## Nay (Aug 7, 2019)

Kalia1 said:


> This brother right here DROPS IT!


Deep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  He spoke nothing but TRUTH.


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## Kalia1 (Aug 7, 2019)

sharentu said:


> interesting read  https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...t4dPfYWH1XeorukQOszuMTnARMnWfW_5i7gIlir-dxOvA




I’m familiar with the writer for he’s frequented CNN after such horrific events. Last evening on CNN he tried to explain what gets one to believe in the ideology and from what he expressed it’s multifaceted.

In the article he speaks about the vast array of white nationalists. He spoke how they come from all walks of life. I believe therein lies the challenge of combating the ideology for it may expose supporters that will be very surprising.


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## Laela (Aug 7, 2019)

I was about to post this article.. I believe him and I think people need to be prepared for anything... He's  right.. there aren't  checks and  balances anywhere to counter the white-supremacist  ideology, allowing  it to become a force in mainstream USA...our head has been in the sand on this problem...smh



sharentu said:


> interesting read  https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...t4dPfYWH1XeorukQOszuMTnARMnWfW_5i7gIlir-dxOvA


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## Ms. Tarabotti (Aug 7, 2019)

Laela said:


> I was about to post this article.. I believe him and I think people need to be prepared for anything... He's  right.. there aren't  checks and  balances anywhere to counter the white-supremacist  ideology, allowing  it to become a force in mainstream USA...our head has been in the sand on this problem...smh



But there are good people on both sides.....

White people are scared that they are going to lose power and influence with the coming increase in the numbers of non white peoples. That feeling was always there but they weren't as concerned because they (the whites) had the numbers. Now that their population is decreasing, they are willing to do whatever it takes to remain in power. They are willing to make excuses for the most vile and inhumane acts as long as they remain in power. Trump can give  wishy washy responses to terroristic acts and everyone agrees with him because they don't want to face the truth. Ever corner of society (government, law enforcement, etc) has been infiltrated by these white nationalists and to do something about the problem would mean turning their backs on family and friends.

It remains to be seen how low white nationalists would have to go before  whites actually turn against them.


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## Laela (Aug 7, 2019)

Good can really only take one side... so long as people won't risk anything for the sake of losing anything, we'll be stuck in this rut. History has shown us that it takes sacrifices to make permanent changes for the greater good. We can't get around that and, white folks (and some blacks among them) aren't ready for that. The status quo is providing a good life for them, so they can't fathom it.  There's a saying, white people will remind you of how black you are"..no matter how rich, educated or assimilated we become. If we are unfortunate to see an all-out race war, it'll be the only time these extremists will not discriminate... Bubba's not gonna stop shooting the black folks he see and say "oh, don't shoot that one, her daddy's white"  

Even though that CNN guy says that Trump is a manifestation of this underbelly of racism (which I agree with), I blame Trump for El Paso.  He was obsessed with the border town and had been fanning the flames all along.. he now he must swallow hard and go down there to pretend to care ... so sad.  He is the current leader.  Just like Obama had been blamed for everything wrong that _had manifested _during his administrations, Trump should too. That's what good  and effective leaders do.  





Ms. Tarabotti said:


> But there are good people on both sides.....
> 
> White people are scared that they are going to lose power and influence with the coming increase in the numbers of non white peoples. That feeling was always there but they weren't as concerned because they (the whites) had the numbers. Now that their population is decreasing, they are willing to do whatever it takes to remain in power. They are willing to make excuses for the most vile and inhumane acts as long as they remain in power. Trump can give  wishy washy responses to terroristic acts and everyone agrees with him because they don't want to face the truth. Ever corner of society (government, law enforcement, etc) has been infiltrated by these white nationalists and to do something about the problem would mean turning their backs on family and friends.
> 
> It remains to be seen how low white nationalists would have to go before  whites actually turn against them.


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## dicapr (Aug 7, 2019)

Welp. Beto O’Rourke just called Trump a white supremacist. We all know he is but as a presidential candidate I thought O’Rourke wouldn’t go there.


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## Laela (Aug 7, 2019)

Goodt


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## dancinstallion (Aug 8, 2019)

sharentu said:


> i truly feel that these folks have some kind of schedule.  i don't think any of this is random.   they know they wont be killed.  but in doing these 'missions', they take out part of 'the problem'.  suicide bombers are never random.  they are given their orders by someone.



We are here, ITA
I told the same thing to Dh today.  I said how convenient that he isn't killed, it is election time, and the news and candidates are know saying white supremacy terrorists. 
This wasn't random. I hate how they don't care how many lives are lost l sacrificed or affected because of their agenda.


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## Kanky (Aug 8, 2019)

I wonder if fewer Hispanic people will vote for Trump this time around. IIRC about 30% of them voted for him and the GOP. It was obvious what he was before the election so


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## meka72 (Aug 8, 2019)

Kanky said:


> I wonder if fewer Hispanic people will vote for Trump this time around. IIRC about 30% of them voted for him and the GOP. It was obvious what he was before the election so


I’m moving to your way of thinking especially after reading what Hernández in this article had to say. 

*Latinos grapple with Trump’s views after El Paso shootings*
Eli RosenbergEL PASO —





Carlos Santos talks to police Sunday near the scene of the mass shooting in El Paso, where 22 people were killed and 24 injured. (Michael Robinson Chavez/The Washington Post)
Manuel Astorgas did not vote for President Trump in 2016, but he said he viewed the president with an open mind. Trump’s message about the importance of work and criticism of government handouts resonated with Astorgas. 

But the president’s negative characterization of Latinos eventually turned him off, Astorgas said. And Trump’s plan to visit this city Wednesday in the aftermath of one of the nation’s worst acts of violence against Latinos seems to Astorgas like a bad idea.

“It just brings in hate,” said Astorgas, a 46-year-old employee of an auto-parts manufacturer. “We are seeing things that we hadn’t seen in a long time. We thought we were finished. We thought we were above that.”

Across this largely Hispanic city in far West Texas, Trump’s visit was viewed with a mixture of anger and trepidation in the community allegedly targeted by a 21-year-old man intent on killing as many Hispanics as possible. But not everyone opposed the visit.

The president still has support from people such as Manuel Hernandez, an 80-year-old who has lived half his life in El Paso and voted for Trump in 2016.

“A lot of bad things are expressed against Latinos,” said Hernandez, speaking in Spanish. “But we don’t know if it’s this [that inspired the gunman] or not. There are a lot of supremacist groups, white supremacists, that don’t like minority groups — black people, Latinos. It’s not the fault of the president, because this has always been around, from way back in time.”

The political differences among Hispanics here are often generational and ideological, a contrast between longtime Mexican American citizens who tend to embrace a traditional Republican message of self-reliance and a younger group dismayed by the president’s broad disparagement of Latinos.



Astorgas and Hernandez are two end points on the spectrum.

Trump won Texas in 2016 but lost in El Paso County to Hillary Clinton by more than a 2-to-1 margin. His visit to El Paso in February still resonates with many Latinos here for the image of lawlessness along the border that Trump described, one that few who live in El Paso recognized.

Wednesday’s visit comes as the president’s 2020 campaign effort has begun to focus on Latino voters in several key swing states, where their support will be key to his reelection. In places such as Pennsylvania and Florida, which Trump won narrowly in 2016, Latino voters who support the president are in a significant minority, but enough may back Trump for him to hold those states.

_[Pence launches ‘Latinos for Trump’ initiative]_

A recent Telemundo poll, for example, found that a quarter of Texas Latinos support his reelection — a figure that mirrors his national approval rating among adult Hispanics, according to Gallup. That figure has remained largely constant since his election, with an occasional dip and rise again, suggesting there is an immovable core of Latino voters who support him, albeit a clear minority.



“Those who haven’t been shaken by that are hardly going to be shaken by what happened” in El Paso, said Pablo Pinto, a professor and director of the Center for Public Policy at the University of Houston, referring to Trump’s past criticism of Hispanics. “People who had voted Republican will continue voting Republican and tend to buy into this rhetoric that getting into the country illegally shouldn’t be rewarded.”

Here in El Paso County, where 8 in 10 of its 840,000 residents are Latino, Trump won 26 percent of the vote in 2016.

Astorgas recalled the February rally here where Trump said, falsely, that his border wall had cut down the crime and chaos in El Paso. Astorgas was angered by the image the president portrayed and fearful of what it might signal to anti-immigrant groups.



“He just went in there and started blasting away,” he said. “What he said at the coliseum probably put a bull’s eye on El Paso. Like there’s a big immigrant problem, like we’re letting them in through the border.”

Astorgas said he also does not understand why Trump has chosen Latinos for such criticism.

“Not all immigrants are rapists,” he said, mentioning his ancestors who came to Texas a few generations ago. “They weren’t rapists. They came to work.”

The shooting has left him and his family disturbed and insecure. He hunkered down in the house with his three sons from Saturday to Sunday, his gun nearby.

“We just decided we’re not leaving,” he said.



His 8-year-old son, the youngest, woke up Monday morning in tears and sick to his stomach. He told his brother he had a dream that his mother died in a mass shooting while they were shopping together.

“He’s still seeing it,” Astorgas said of the news about the massacre.

But Hernandez, more than three decades older than Astorgas, voted for Trump and plans to do so again. He was born in Mexico — in Santa Barbara, a small town in the state of Chihuahua — and raised in Juarez on the far bank of the Rio Grande. He moved to El Paso almost 40 years ago.

In retirement, Hernandez cares about one issue above every other: the Social Security checks he lives on. He said the check’s amount has risen more under Trump than it did during President Barack Obama’s time in office.



“It’s incremental, but you can see it,” he said.

Hernandez said Trump’s words about immigrants were directed more at Mexico than at people like him. While he is not enthusiastic about Trump’s proposed border wall, it does not bother him either.

“It isn’t going to work,” he said. “If they put up the wall, the people are going to go at it like rabbits and come underneath.”

Hernandez said Obama was more concerned with black people than “the rest,” and that he probably wouldn’t vote for another black person for president. If Obama were up for election, he would choose Trump, unbothered by what he has said about immigrants.

“I’ve lived here for almost 40 years in peace,” he said. “It doesn’t interest me.”



In several swing states, Trump’s standing among Hispanics, though small, has remained relatively stable, helped in large part by an economy that many view as healthy.

David Callejas, 35, was born in New York and raised in Colombia. For the past six years, he has lived in Allentown, Pa., working in a bio-tech lab. He did not vote in 2016, but he said he will support Trump in the next election. Trump lost Lehigh County in the last election.

“I don’t know much about the people who did the [El Paso] shooting, but it’s more of an upbringing issue with the individual,” said Callejas, as he made his way toward the Game Stop store in Allentown’s South Mall.



“Ever since he [Trump] got elected, going to Twitter and bashing people, that doesn’t seem presidential, but it’s who he’s always been,” he continued. “I like the business background he has. America needs that. We don’t want to go through another economic crisis. The Democrats are too radical. We don’t want to become Venezuela.”

Waiting for lunch at the roadside Taco Town food truck off Lehigh Street, Mario Carcamo, an immigrant from El Salvador, said, “I believe that most of us believe in the law in this country.”

Carcamo, 59, holds down multiple jobs — fixing houses, making soda for Dr Pepper, working in sanitation. He has been in the United States for 15 years.

“Everybody believes that all of us are illegal, but I respect the law, I respect everybody,” he said, adding that he believes Trump is using racist rhetoric.

“Racism,” he said. “That’s America.”

The recent Telemundo poll showed that 34 percent of Latinos in Florida, another key swing state, favor Trump’s reelection. The shooting and its aftermath do not appear to have changed many opinions.

Placing groceries in her car outside a Miami supermarket, Cuban American Yuri Ricardo, 28, said she is a Republican but abstained from voting in 2016 because she did not like any of the candidates.

“Trump incites the wrong people with his rhetoric,” she said in reference to the El Paso shooting.

Ricardo, who works for an insurance company and has two sons, 4 and 12, said she owns a small handgun. But she said gun control is a top concern, believing in the right to bear arms but favoring an assault-weapons ban and a higher legal age to buy firearms.

Her second main concern is illegal immigration.

“It would be good if there could be a more organized system in place with more regulation,” she said.

Beatriz Hernández, 56, came from Cuba, where she was a doctor, six years ago. She said Trump has qualities she likes, and that his anti-immigrant rhetoric is only directed toward those who come to the country illegally and commit crimes.

“No country has open borders and allows everyone to enter,” she said.

Coming from Cuba, where people do not usually carry a firearm, she said all weapons should be limited in the United States.

“I am in favor of banning arms in all countries,” she said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...5099d8-b87d-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html


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## Ms. Tarabotti (Aug 8, 2019)

Oh - it's the old 'He's not talking about me' way of thinking.

Manuel Hernandez has been in this country for over 40 years, how come he still speaks Spanish? Is he a citizen or here illegally? Does he think that no one is going to ask him these questions if Trump gets re elected? President Obama was only concerned about black people but he thinks Trump cares about him? His SS check goes up a few dollars so he's okay with casual racism (which really isn't directed at him because as you know, he's special ).

If Trump gets re elected, the gloves are going to come off. It's going to be interesting to see how the 'brown people' are going to deal with all racism and trouble directed towards them, no matter if they are citizens or not.  Trump and his fellow racists are going to gunning for them, special or not.

I have my popcorn ready.


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## HappilyLiberal (Aug 8, 2019)

dicapr said:


> Welp. Beto O’Rourke just called Trump a white supremacist. We all know he is but as a presidential candidate I thought O’Rourke wouldn’t go there.



He knows he's not going to win, so why not?!


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## HappilyLiberal (Aug 8, 2019)

Ms. Tarabotti said:


> Oh - it's the old 'He's not talking about me' way of thinking.
> 
> Manuel Hernandez has been in this country for over 40 years, how come he still speaks Spanish? Is he a citizen or here illegally? Does he think that no one is going to ask him these questions if Trump gets re elected? President Obama was only concerned about black people but he thinks Trump cares about him? His SS check goes up a few dollars so he's okay with casual racism (which really isn't directed at him because as you know, he's special ).
> 
> ...




I wonder if they are including Cubans in that Hispanic number.  If so, that explains it all!


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## Kanky (Aug 8, 2019)

meka72 said:


> I’m moving to your way of thinking especially after reading what Hernández in this article had to say.
> 
> *Latinos grapple with Trump’s views after El Paso shootings*
> Eli RosenbergEL PASO —
> ...


That’s what I thought. I can’t be more concerned about their lives than they are. They are getting what they voted for, even if they thought that it didn’t apply to them.


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## Kanky (Aug 8, 2019)

BTW the GOP is incredibly unserious about reducing illegal immigration. If they wanted it to stop then they would make hiring illegal immigrants a serious crime with jail time and heavy financial penalties. They are coming here because companies are hiring them and companies are hiring them because even if they get caught it a slap on the wrist and worth the risk for the money saved. 

All that Trump has done is stir up hatred towards them and make a public show of making a few people miserable. He’s deported fewer than Obama, who did so without disparaging people. This is also what makes it obvious that this is about racism for Trump voters, and not about immigration. They want a display of suffering and of cruelty towards people that they hate, not actual effective immigration reform.


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## RoundEyedGirl504 (Aug 8, 2019)

Kanky said:


> BTW the GOP is incredibly unserious about reducing illegal immigration. If they wanted it to stop then they would make hiring illegal immigrants a serious crime with jail time and heavy financial penalties. They are coming here because companies are hiring them and companies are hiring them because even if they get caught it a slap on the wrist and worth the risk for the money saved.
> 
> All that Trump has done is stir up hatred towards them and make a public show of making a few people miserable. He’s deported fewer than Obama, who did so without disparaging people. This is also what makes it obvious that this is about racism for Trump voters, and not about immigration. They want a display of suffering and of cruelty towards people that they hate, not actual effective immigration reform.



*Koch Foods* in Mississippi just got busted for have a few hundred illegal workers, likely of the Latinx designation. They ain't never been serious because that threatens their bottom line, but that won't stop them from getting these white folks riled up to vote them in again and again under the guise of cracking down on these illegals.


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## TrulyBlessed (Aug 8, 2019)




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## Laela (Aug 8, 2019)

Unfortunately there is a chasm between Latinos/Hispanics, much like with AAs/Africans... in that there is some compartmentalizing going on. most Latinos (incl. Cubans) consider themselves white... Mexicans aren't considered white; this happened in a border town with Mexico, so I doubt many Latinos are really grappling with anything...


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## Everything Zen (Aug 8, 2019)

TrulyBlessed said:


>



https://www.10tv.com/article/man-called-hero-shielding-girlfriend-gunfire-dayton-2019-aug

I just- you know what I’mma be quiet and let him be great.


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## Kanky (Aug 8, 2019)

Everything Zen said:


> https://www.10tv.com/article/man-called-hero-shielding-girlfriend-gunfire-dayton-2019-aug
> 
> I just- you know what I’mma be quiet and let him be great.


 I knew it as soon as I read saw the headline.


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## TrulyBlessed (Aug 9, 2019)

Swipe


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