# A man is to love his wife the way that Christ...



## Blossssom (May 19, 2008)

loved the church... what does that say about Abraham and Sarah?  Abraham didn't love his wife enough to lay down his life for her, as did Christ for the church.

Instead, Abraham allowed heathen men to have his wife in any capacity they saw fit... thank God that Jesus loved the church and was willing to lay down his life to protect it (from Satan)


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## metamorfhosis (May 25, 2008)

Well, it seems like GOD used imperfect people to do amazing things in the Bible. For example, Moses. Didn't he kill a man? And yet, GOD still used him. 

We sin but GOD uses us............


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## divya (May 25, 2008)

metamorfhosis said:


> Well, it seems like GOD used imperfect people to do amazing things in the Bible. For example, Moses. Didn't he kill a man? And yet, GOD still used him.
> 
> We sin but GOD uses us............




Well said.  God is loving and see the heart. When we repent, He will forgive.  And He is willing to use sincere individuals...


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## Blossssom (May 26, 2008)

divya said:


> Well said.  God is loving and see the heart. When we repent, He will forgive.  And He is willing to use sincere individuals...



No disagreement, Div and Meta... I almost forgot about this thread 

I'm wondering what made me initiate it, though.


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## PaperClip (May 26, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> loved the church... what does that say about Abraham and Sarah? Abraham didn't love his wife enough to lay down his life for her, as did Christ for the church.
> 
> *Instead, Abraham allowed heathen men to have his wife in any capacity they saw fit...* thank God that Jesus loved the church and was willing to lay down his life to protect it (from Satan)


 
Hey, Blossssom:

I tried to dodge this thread but I was really curious about what you're talking about (bolded)....


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## Farida (May 26, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Hey, Blossssom:
> 
> I tried to dodge this thread but I was really curious about what you're talking about (bolded)....



I think she's talking about the fact that Abraham let other men sleep with his wife because he was afraid of telling them what the relationship between he and Sarah was.


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## PaperClip (May 26, 2008)

vivmaiko said:


> I think she's talking about the fact that Abraham let other men sleep with his wife because he was afraid of telling them what the relationship between he and Sarah was.


 
Aahh... I didn't get the impression that Abram allowed women to sleep/have sex with his wife....  but that he/they didn't disclose their relationship. Also, Sarah, before her name change, was Sarai, which means "domineering one". In other words, there's not the impression that Sarah/ai was an unwilling participant in the scheme. As a matter of fact, it was Sarai who suggested that Abram sleep with her servant to get an heir....

This is a good opportunity for us to walk through the Word of God to come to a common place about it....


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## Pink_diamond (Jun 1, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Aahh... I didn't get the impression that Abram allowed women to sleep/have sex with his wife....  but that he/they didn't disclose their relationship. Also, Sarah, before her name change, was Sarai, which means "domineering one". In other words, there's not the impression that Sarah/ai was an unwilling participant in the scheme. As a matter of fact, it was Sarai who suggested that Abram sleep with her servant to get an heir....



I agree with this as well; I didn't have the impression that Sarah was sleeping with others, just that the two (in front of enemies), pretended that they weren't in a romantic relationship (married).


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## kbragg (Jun 1, 2008)

Pink_diamond said:


> I agree with this as well; I didn't have the impression that Sarah was sleeping with others, just that the two (in front of enemies), pretended that they weren't in a romantic relationship (married).


 
Right, and actually if you READ the text, this is the very reason Abraham accumulated most of his wealth. Sarah never slept with Pharoah or Abemelech, in fact God cursed their households and revealed to them that Abraham and Sarah were together. He never allowed then to touch her. Abraham was blessed because of his wife

The same thing happened with Isaac and Rebekah

Personally, I think it's awesome that God uses a BEAUTIFUL WOMAN to bless Abaham with wealth and not some other means. It really helps you to see how God truly sees women, not how many denominations would lead you to believe...


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## gottabme247 (Jun 2, 2008)

The old testament shows us our sinful nature. With everything that was going on and the commandments God set forth and all the sacrifices to atone for their sins over and over again.. It sets the stage and foundation for the new testament. God sent his son, Jesus to die for all of our sins once and for all. God wants a man to love his wife, just the way christ shows his love towards us.


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## Caramela (Jun 2, 2008)

Abraham was not a Christian.


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## Blossssom (Jun 5, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Hey, Blossssom:
> 
> I tried to dodge this thread but I was really curious about what you're talking about (bolded)....



Hey hon...

Well, reading through the thread, it seems I may be mistaken... and I freely admit that.  I haven't read that passage of scripture in some time, so perhaps I am remembering it incorrectly.  I'm going to brush up on it over the weekend and get back to you all, but you all are probably right.  You study the Bible faithfully while I tend to rely on readings from 20 years ago... and that is sad.

Anyway, I'll get back to you all


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## Blossssom (Jun 5, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Aahh... I didn't get the impression that Abram allowed women to sleep/have sex with his wife....  but that he/they didn't disclose their relationship. Also, Sarah, before her name change, was Sarai, which means "domineering one". In other words, there's not the impression that Sarah/ai was an unwilling participant in the scheme. As a matter of fact, it was Sarai who suggested that Abram sleep with her servant to get an heir....
> 
> This is a good opportunity for us to walk through the Word of God to come to a common place about it....



Women?  You must mean men...

I'm glad that you all can discuss this scripture.  Clarity is clearly needed because even Viv believes as I do that Abram "handed over" Sarah to heathen men.

Now, when I look up these scriptures and if I still believe that he did, we are going to have to talk about this so we can come to an understanding.


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## Blossssom (Jun 5, 2008)

Pink_diamond said:


> I agree with this as well; I didn't have the impression that Sarah was sleeping with others, just that the two (in front of enemies), pretended that they weren't in a romantic relationship (married).



LOL at the smiley!  Ha!


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## PaperClip (Jun 5, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> Women? You must mean men...
> 
> I'm glad that you all can discuss this scripture. Clarity is clearly needed because even Viv believes as I do that Abram "handed over" Sarah to heathen men.
> 
> Now, when I look up these scriptures and if I still believe that he did, we are going to have to talk about this so we can come to an understanding.


 
Oh! Yep... it should have said men....


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## Blossssom (Jun 5, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Right, and actually if you READ the text, this is the very reason Abraham accumulated most of his wealth. Sarah never slept with Pharoah or Abemelech, in fact God cursed their households and revealed to them that Abraham and Sarah were together. He never allowed then to touch her. Abraham was blessed because of his wife
> 
> The same thing happened with Isaac and Rebekah
> 
> Personally, I think it's awesome that God uses a BEAUTIFUL WOMAN to bless Abaham with wealth and not some other means. It really helps you to see how God truly sees women, not how many denominations would lead you to believe...



How exactly did Abe accumulate his wealth?

Funny how God doesn't "allow" things to happen back in biblical days, but allows all hell to break loose today.  There's a thread in the OT forum discussing God and why black women are single.  Free will clearly didn't apply back in biblical days the way it applies today 

Back to Abe's wealth... what other means?  If you weren't a king you were a farmer.  Didn't seem to be much middle ground...

I'll tell you this, if I'm right about Sarah sleeping with the heathens, I know how Abe got his wealth.  I may have to read the entire book to make sure I get this right.


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## Blossssom (Jun 5, 2008)

Caramela said:


> Abraham was not a Christian.



Jesus wasn't either


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## Blossssom (Jun 6, 2008)

Okay... I stand corrected *sniff*

What I don't get, though, is why did Sarah have to prove her "loyalty" to Abe by telling Abimelech that she was his sister?

BTW, did you all know that Abe and Sarah were half-siblings?  What's that about?

Quite honestly, I don't know what Abimelech wanted with an old, barren woman anyway when he had a wife and as many slaves as he count up to.

I don't know why God struck Abimelech's household rendering all of his women sterile when he hadn't DONE anything to old and barren Sarah.

And then Abimelech gives Abe a bunch of money, land and cattle all so he could PRAY to God and have the curse removed from his household?  A curse that was placed on his household when he hadn't done anything to deserve the curse?

If Abimelech did want Sarah, she herself said that Abe was her brother, so her sex should have been okay to lay with... if it wasn't okay, why did she even tell him that?

What's really going on in this Scripture?


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## Blossssom (Jun 7, 2008)

Um... BUMP!


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## Caramela (Jun 8, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> Jesus wasn't either



Yes, that is true. But Jesus did love the Church and gave his life for it, say the scriptures. Christ was the example. It would be hard for Abraham to love his wife as Christ loved the Church if Christ hadn't even walked the earth yet to set the example wouldn't it?


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## Blossssom (Jun 8, 2008)

Caramela said:


> Yes, that is true. But Jesus did love the Church and gave his life for it, say the scriptures. Christ was the example. It would be hard for Abraham to love his wife as Christ loved the Church if Christ hadn't even walked the earth yet to set the example wouldn't it?



True


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## Blossssom (Jun 10, 2008)

Bump..............


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## Blossssom (Jun 12, 2008)

So no one was interested in discussing this?


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## klb120475 (Jun 13, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> So no one was interested in discussing this?


 
I'm gon discuss it.....


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## Blossssom (Jun 14, 2008)

klb120475 said:


> I'm gon discuss it.....



Um, when...?  

With me or with someone else?


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## klb120475 (Jun 14, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> Um, when...?
> 
> With me or with someone else?


 


With you.

Finna go back and read all the posts first. BRB

ETA- Ok I'm back. I see I'm gon have to go back and study that passage a lil deeper. I don't wanna give you a generalized answer.


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## Blossssom (Jun 14, 2008)

Okay... I'll wait... I've been waiting all this time.  Ha!


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## Blossssom (Jun 16, 2008)

WELL!!!!!  

You have had TWO days to read and study this scripture!

What's up?


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## cocoberry10 (Jun 17, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> No disagreement, Div and Meta... I almost forgot about this thread
> 
> *I'm wondering what made me initiate it, though*.


 
Even in the Christian Forum, you have the power to make me laugh

I want to tell you Blossssom, you have the power to bring tears of joy to people's eyes, and this is a blessing. Especially in the sad and sorry times we now live in. Joy is so much a part of being connected to the Lord and even bringing others to Him in my opinion; and your ability to make light and fun of situations blesses many of us on this board in ways you may never know!!!!!


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## cocoberry10 (Jun 17, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Personally, *I think it's awesome that God uses a BEAUTIFUL WOMAN to bless Abaham with wealth and not some other means. It really helps you to see how God truly sees women, not how many denominations would lead you to believe.*..


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## klb120475 (Jun 18, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> WELL!!!!!
> 
> You have had TWO days to read and study this scripture!
> 
> What's up?


 

Forgive me Blosssom.....for I have forgotten boutchu. I had a lil stomach virus and it ain't been pretty. But I'm feeling much better now. I promise I'll be back tomorrow ready to discuss.


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## Crown (Jun 19, 2008)

kbragg said:


> Right, and actually if you READ the text, this is the very reason Abraham accumulated most of his wealth. Sarah never slept with Pharoah or Abemelech, in fact God cursed their households and revealed to them that Abraham and Sarah were together. *He never allowed then to touch her*. Abraham was blessed because of his wife



(ASV - Gen 12:19) Why saidst thou, She is my sister, *so that I took her to be my wife*? Now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.


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## Blossssom (Jun 24, 2008)

klb120475 said:


> Forgive me Blosssom.....for I have forgotten boutchu. I had a lil stomach virus and it ain't been pretty. But I'm feeling much better now. I promise I'll be back tomorrow ready to discuss.



And tomorrow never CAME!  LOL!

Hope you're feeling better!


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## Blossssom (Jun 24, 2008)

Crown said:


> (ASV - Gen 12:19) Why saidst thou, She is my sister, *so that I took her to be my wife*? Now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.



Um, Bragg... where did Pharoah come in at?


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## klb120475 (Jun 24, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> *And tomorrow never CAME! LOL!*
> 
> Hope you're feeling better!


 
I know hunh? I GOTS to do better.

If it make you feel any better I did get around to reading the book, and I luved it!


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## discobiscuits (Jun 25, 2008)

*Blossss, may I chime in? Ok thanks. lol*

Abraham did not give Sarah she was taken and God stopped [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Abimelech [/FONT]from messing w/ her b/c she was married. Abe and Sarah kinda sorta lied (but not really) b/c Abe thought it would be better for them so they would not get killed.



> [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] *1* Now Abraham moved on from there into the region of the Negev and lived between Kadesh and Shur. For a while he stayed in Gerar,  *2* and there Abraham said of his wife Sarah, "She is my sister." *Then Abimelech king of Gerar sent for Sarah and took her.* [/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] *3* But God came to Abimelech in a dream one night and said to him, "You are as good as dead because of the woman you have taken; she is a married woman." *4* Now Abimelech had not gone near her, so he said, "Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation?  *5* Did he not say to me, 'She is my sister,' and didn't she also say, 'He is my brother'? I have done this with a clear conscience and clean hands." *6* Then *God said to him in the dream, "Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience, and so I have kept you from sinning against me. That is why I did not let you touch her.* *7* Now return the man's wife, for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you will live. But if you do not return her, you may be sure that you and all yours will die." [/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] *8* Early the next morning Abimelech summoned all his officials, and when he told them all that had happened, they were very much afraid. *9* Then Abimelech called Abraham in and said, "What have you done to us? How have I wronged you that you have brought such great guilt upon me and my kingdom? You have done things to me that should not be done." *10* And *Abimelech asked Abraham, "What was your reason for doing this?"  11 Abraham replied, "I said to myself, 'There is surely no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.'  **12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife.* *13* And when God had me wander from my father's household, I said to her, 'This is how you can show your love to me: Everywhere we go, say of me, "He is my brother."'" [/FONT]



*Blossssom, what other times did Abraham give Sarah to other men?*


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## Blossssom (Jun 25, 2008)

klb120475 said:


> I know hunh? I GOTS to do better.
> 
> If it make you feel any better I did get around to reading the book, and I luved it!



Aw, I'm glad you enjoyed it.  I'm waiting for Grisham's new book to hit the "paper".

It's getting bad reviews, though... but I don't care.  I love me some Grisham


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## Blossssom (Jun 25, 2008)

jenniferohjenny said:


> *Blossss, may I chime in? Ok thanks. lol*
> 
> Abraham did not give Sarah she was taken and God stopped [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Abimelech [/FONT]from messing w/ her b/c she was married. Abe and Sarah kinda sorta lied (but not really) b/c Abe thought it would be better for them so they would not get killed.
> 
> ...



I'll have to look at the scripture in the Bible that I read... could be a translation problem.

Will get back to you, Jen.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jun 26, 2008)

Ditto to what Jen said,  also, Abraham did love his wife the way Christ loves us.  Afterall, he was willing to sacrafice his sacred marriage in order to protect her from being killed.  He thought it was safer to pretend to be siblings.  He didn't do it just off G.P.  I would say that is extremely honorable, just imagine your husband knowing that if the enemy knew you were his wife, you would both die.  So he would lie and then have to sit patiently and watch other men make advances toward you but still not risk your life by jumping bad and trying to fight everyone off.  He had faith in God and he let God handle the men.


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## NGraceO (Jun 30, 2008)

jenniferohjenny said:


> *Blossss, may I chime in? Ok thanks. lol*
> 
> Abraham did not give Sarah she was taken and God stopped [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Abimelech [/FONT]from messing w/ her b/c she was married. Abe and Sarah kinda sorta lied (but not really) b/c Abe thought it would be better for them so they would not get killed.
> 
> ...


 
I admit, when I read this, I too struggled with it. And umm, the other time Abraham "gave Sarah to other men: was in chapter 12, When they went to Egypt. What I have conflict with is that some said that God kept both Abimilech and Pharoah from sleeping with Sarah, and I see that in Abimilech's story, but not in Pharoahs. Also, lots of time in Bible, I've heard that the term "wife" can be synonomus with sleeping with a woman, and that says that in Chapter 12, but not in 20....


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