# Can a Person Be a Christian and Not go to Church?



## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought this was a great article I found ( for those who choose to read it).  

Christianity is true, verifiable, and provable; so it makes sense to find a great church to learn more about God, Jesus, and the Bible. Still, most people who have not been to church in awhile need the answers to two questions: 

Can a person be a Christian and not attend church? 
[FONT=arial, helvetica]How do I go about finding a good church? [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]We explore both of these issues on this page. 

*Can a person be a Christian and not attend church?* 

This is a valid question, since going to church does not save people. They are saved (and get to go to heaven) by getting right with God. Still, getting right with God is only the start of being a Christian, as a birth is only the start of having a life. 

We understand that some people may find themselves in a position where they do not attend church for a short time. (Perhaps they just moved to a new city and have not found a church, or are in the hospital and can not physically go to church.) That is not what we are referring to in this section. This section is about people who can not be bothered with going to church and purposefully and consistently stay away from church. We believe that such people can not remain Christians for at least three reasons: [/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica]The Bible has no examples of anyone who was right with God but also stood alone and did not spend time with other believers. Hebrews 10:23-25 tells us clearly that we should gather together and encourage and spur one another on toward love and good deeds. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]In Ephesians 5:21-33, Paul tells us how husbands and wives ought to relate to one another. There, he teaches that Christ relates to the church as if it were His "bride." He always wants the best for her and loves the church so much that He gave himself up for her (Ephesians 5:25). If you told someone, "I love you and I want to have a close relationship with you, but I can't stand being around your spouse at all," you might get a punch in the nose! In the same way, people who say "I love Jesus, but I do not want to have anything to do with the church," are putting up a wall between themselves and Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Using figures of speech, Ephesians 5:23 and Colossians 1:18 refer to Christ as the "head" and the church as the "body." 1 Corinthians chapter 12 further explains how the church (the body) is made up of individuals who work together, pooling their talents, skills, and strengths-all for the purpose of helping as many people as possible get right with God and grow closer to Him. To refuse to be a part of the body is to say that we do not want to follow God's plan. In a sense, such people believe that by acting on their own that they have a better plan than God does. There is a lot of arrogance in such thinking.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]*A Special Comment* 

Church can be a gathering of thousands in a "mega-church." It could also be a few people getting together for breakfast at a restaurant and helping each other "grow in Christ," since Jesus says, "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them" (Matthew 18:20). 

"Growth in Christ" happens when we meet to "spur one another on toward love and good deeds" (Hebrews 10:24) or "sharpen" each other (Proverbs 27:17). It does not have to be in a church building on Sunday morning. It is possible that some of us may live where there are no churches close by, or those that are available do not follow the Bible. We still have a responsibility to do all we can to locate other believers and get together with them. We may need to start something on our own and do our best to help people around us get right with God, so we can grow from there. 

*How do I go about finding a good church?* 

Unfortunately, the only exposure many of us have had to a church is seeing someone on TV (who also happened to be a little strange). 

Others might make a plunge and go to a church because someone invited them. However, you can still have one or more of the following reactions: [/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica]"What they had to say had nothing to do with the real world." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]"They used weird talk, lots of words I never heard before." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]"They didn't really use the Bible, and I didn't learn anything new." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]"They seemed more interested in my money than anything else." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]"The music was pretty bad." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]"They asked the new folks to stand up and introduce themselves." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]"Frankly, the people I met there seemed a little odd. They also seemed to have their own personal opinion of everything." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]The obvious result: few new people return for more. 

Actually, church should be:[/FONT] 

[FONT=arial, helvetica]Practical and relevant to today's world. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Use normal language. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Follow the Bible, using it as their only source of God's truth, and their final authority. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Let the visitors know that they are not expected to give any money. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Have good music. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Allow people to visit the church without putting them "under a spotlight" or have them do something they would not normally do in public. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Teach the truth, not existentialism. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]"Existentialism" probably needs some clarification. The formal definition is "each person exists as an individual in a purposeless universe, who must oppose the hostile environment through the exercise of their free will." 

Put simply, this says that since we are "on our own" in the universe, we can believe anything that seems right to us. But does believing something make it true? For example, if someone told you to use the brake on your car instead of the accelerator because it "made sense to them," how far would you get? Obviously, you need to be told the truth, so you can use the accelerator to make your car move. 

The same thing is true of Christianity. Since it is true, verifiable, and provable; we need to know the truth-not some person's opinion or interpretation. *It just makes sense-if God is really God, He should know exactly what we need and how to tell us using the Bible. 
*[/FONT]


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## gone_fishing (Jan 2, 2008)

Great article. 

Adding this article to it:

Acts 2:42 could be considered a purpose statement for the church, “They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” So, according to this Scripture, the purposes / activities of the church should be: (1) teaching Biblical doctrine, (2) providing a place of fellowship for believers, (3) observing the Lord’s supper, and (4) praying.

The church is to teach Biblical doctrine so we can be grounded in our faith. Ephesians 4:14 tells us, “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.” The church is to be a place of fellowship, where Christians can be devoted to one another and honor one another (Romans 12:10), instruct one another (Romans 15:14), be kind and compassionate to one another (Ephesians 4:32), encourage one another (1 Thessalonians 5:11), and most importantly love one another (1 John 3:11).

The church is to be a place where believers can observe the Lord’s supper, remembering Christ’s death and shed blood on our behalf (1 Corinthians 11:23-26). The concept of “breaking bread” (Acts 2:42) also carries the idea of having meals together. This is another example of the church promoting fellowship. The final purpose of the church according to Acts 2:42 is prayer. The church is to be a place that promotes prayer, teaches prayer, and practices prayer. Philippians 4:6-7 encourages us, “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”

Another “commission” given to the church is proclaiming the Gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8). The church is called to be faithful in sharing the Gospel through word and deed. The church is to be a “lighthouse” in the community – pointing people towards our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The church is to both promote the Gospel and prepare its members to proclaim the Gospel (1 Peter 3:15).

Some final purposes of the church are given in James 1:27, “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” The church is to be about the business of ministering to those who are in need. This includes not only sharing the Gospel, but also providing for physical needs (food, clothing, shelter) as necessary and appropriate. The church is also to equip believers in Christ with the tools they need to overcome sin and remain free from the pollution of the world. This is done by the principles given above – Biblical teaching and Christian fellowship.

So, with all that said, what is the purpose of the church? I like the illustration in 1 Corinthians 12:12-27. The church is God’s “body” – we are His hands, mouth, and feet in this world. We are to be doing the things that Jesus Christ would do if He were here physically on the earth. The church is to be “Christian” – “Christ-like” and Christ-following.

http://www.gotquestions.org/purpose-church.html


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## dlewis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm a christian and I do not have a church home.  I do believe people should be careful who they submit themselves to and allow over their lives.  

Most churches are not what they should be and not even close.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

dlewis said:


> I'm a christian and I do not have a church home. I do believe people should be careful who they submit themselves to and allow over their lives.
> 
> Most churches are not what they should be and not even close.


 
I can totally agree with you.  We can have church in our home.  The church can be made up 2 or 3 people (more of course) to glorify God and edify one another...encouraging each other in love.

So I say...have church at home


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

adequate said:


> Great article.
> 
> Adding this article to it:
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for the added info, adequate!


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm a Christian and not in a church home at the moment. 

I still fellowship with other believers. I'm learning more about God and the Bible now than I did when I was in church, to be honest. If God leads me to a building to fellowship, I'll go. Until then, I will seek Him and let the Holy Spirit lead me.


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## Aveena (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I can totally agree with you. We can have church in our home. The church can be made up 2 or 3 people (more of course) to glorify God and edify one another...encouraging each other in love.
> 
> So I say...have church at home


 
funny.  I do this often but if someone asked me if I have a church home I always say no?  I'm going to revise that answer!


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## dlewis (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I can totally agree with you.  We can have church in our home.  The church can be made up 2 or 3 people (more of course) to glorify God and edify one another...encouraging each other in love.
> 
> So I say...have church at home



I'm glad you said that.  I have DH's family that try to make me feel bad about it.  They're the ones in the church sleeping my someones husband, cussing in the church building, teaching bible school but talking about the church members over sunday diner.  That ain't christian like to me.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> I'm a Christian and not in a church home at the moment.
> 
> I still fellowship with other believers. I'm learning more about God and the Bible now than I did when I was in church, to be honest. If God leads me to a building to fellowship, I'll go. Until then, I will seek Him and let the Holy Spirit lead me.


 
Happy New Year, lauren!

I'm glad you read the article. As I stated to dlewis, if you feel that you don't want to go to a "building" to meet with other members of the Body of Christ, then have church at home.

We still have to remember that the church is the Lord's...its not "our" church, but His....He calls the church His "Bride". He has required for us to meet together...for edification and exortation. Regardless as to how we may feel about others (pastors, etc.) who may not be teaching what God has ordained them too, we are still obligated to do what He has said for us to do.

ETA: _*Speaking to one another in songs, singing and making music in our hearts to God, giving thanks to God through Jesus, and submitting to one another to honor Christ are things that we can do and know that God uses to fill us with his Spirit (*__*Eph. 5:15-21*__*).
*_


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

Fran said:


> funny. I do this often but if someone asked me if I have a church home I always say no? I'm going to revise that answer!


 
I want you all to understand something.  I'm not saying that because you don't go to a church building, you should just have a time at home alone.  What I'm saying is this:

"If you don't like what's happening out there, then do something at home.  Bring the people and have church in your home.  Ask God to send someone who can teach His word with authority and with a heart of worship and a heart for the people...to do what He has called them too.  It may be you or your dh or your neighbor...just have church people!" 

It's easy to do something at home with your children, dh...but I'm talking about Kingdom business here....leading others to Christ who don't know Him, to the foot of the cross!  That's our mandate as Christians!


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## gone_fishing (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I want you all to understand something. I'm not saying that because you don't go to a church building, you should just have a time at home alone. What I'm saying is this:
> 
> "If you don't like what's happening out there, then do something at home. Bring the people and have church in your home. Ask God to send someone who can teach His word with authority and with a heart of worship and a heart for the people...to do what He has called them too. It may be you or your dh or your neighbor...just have church people!"
> 
> It's easy to do something at home with your children, dh...but I'm talking about Kingdom business here....leading others to Christ who don't know Him, to the foot of the cross! That's our mandate as Christians!


 
Hey, hope you don't mind and I'm not trying to take away from your thread but I started another, "have you been burned by the church" thread because I realize there are a lot of people who feel the church does wrong or has done them wrong and they want no part of it. I had a father that felt this way. Please check in if you get a moment. I posted it in regular off topic so more folks would see it.

I think there are a few issues working here:

1. There are those that are Christians who don't go because they just don't want to go.
2. Those that don't go because they feel they can get the same caliber of worship and understanding at home.
3. Those who have been hurt by a church in the past or seen evil deeds done in the church in the name of God.

The last issue, is a serious one as we have a lot of people in church hurting and hostile towards one another. It's an issue that should be addressed separately from just is it okay to have church at home and not at church. I hope that makes sense.

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=184955


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

dlewis said:


> I'm glad you said that. I have DH's family that try to make me feel bad about it. They're the ones in the church sleeping my someones husband, cussing in the church building, teaching bible school but talking about the church members over sunday diner. That ain't christian like to me.


 
Romans 8:1 says this:

*"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus"  *

Listen, hurt people, hurt people.  This has been happening for thousands of years and we are seeing it still today.

There are no "perfect people", especially in the church because the people who get saved and are now going to church came from the world!


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

adequate said:


> Hey, hope you don't mind and I'm not trying to take away from your thread but I started another, "have you been burned by the church" thread because I realize there are a lot of people who feel the church does wrong or has done them wrong and they want no part of it. I had a father that felt this way. Please check in if you get a moment. I posted it in regular off topic so more folks would see it.
> 
> I think there are a few issues working here:
> 
> ...


 
Where is the thread, adequate?

I don't feel you are taking away from the thread, at all. I do know that the Lord had me to start this thread, however, because its something that is needed at this time.

I don't want to jump to to many topics at once though, because its important to do things one at a time, as to not confuse those who are dealing with certain issues.

ETA: First, I found the thread.

Secondly, I personally think that any topic about Christianity should be kept in the CF.  I have made a vow not to answer anything else in the OT forum about the things of God.  Trust me, those that are usually in the OT forum, read things here in the CF.  They may not answer, but they do read it and if they choose to answer, then we can then take it from there.

Just my humble, loving opinion.

Blessings, sis!


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## gone_fishing (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Where is the thread, adequate?
> 
> I don't feel you are taking away from the thread, at all. I do know that the Lord had me to start this thread, however, because its something that is needed at this time.
> 
> I don't want to jump to to many topics at once though, because its important to do things one at a time, as to not confuse those who are dealing with certain issues.


 
It is in what you quoted above. By all means, you can respond whenever you have the time. No rush at all!


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

adequate said:


> It is in what you quoted above. By all means, you can respond whenever you have the time. No rush at all!


 
Please see what i added to the post above this one, adequate.

Thanks.


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## gone_fishing (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Please see what i added to the post above this one, adequate.
> 
> Thanks.


 
Ok, that makes sense. I don't know how everyone searches the forum for what they will read but I'll take your word for it. 

I'm fine with whatever the mods decide to do.

So you won't contribute to that discussion until it's moved?


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

adequate said:


> Ok, that makes sense. I don't know how everyone searches the forum for what they will read but I'll take your word for it.
> 
> I'm fine with whatever the mods decide to do.
> 
> So you won't contribute to that discussion until it's moved?


 
No, I choose not to discuss anything in the OT forum anymore about the things of God.

2008 is the year of New Beginnings.  I thank God we have a CF so, I have decided to stay here.

I have gotten pm's from some folks who don't come over here to participate, but do have questions about what they have read and it's been really, really good.  If people don't like something that is said, or if they have questions and really want to know more about a certain thread, they will ask...no doubt about it.

I feel that if we stay here more, it will be on and poppin!  We must remain in a place of togetherness, and although I can understand your point why you wanted your thread in the OT forum, it will be a place of bashing Christianity, no matter how many disclaimers  you put in there.

Keeping it in the CF is wise, because there is prayer going forth for all of us here and we know that where there is strife and contention, there will be confusion and every evil work.  We must keep the bonds of Peace and we an do that here in the CF.

I thank God for Beverly to give us a place where we can come to and exhort, edify, encourage and teach and learn.  We are a blessed people and I look forward to what God has instore for us here in this CF.

Blessings.


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## Aveena (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I want you all to understand something. I'm not saying that because you don't go to a church building, you should just have a time at home alone. What I'm saying is this:
> 
> "If you don't like what's happening out there, then do something at home. Bring the people and have church in your home. Ask God to send someone who can teach His word with authority and with a heart of worship and a heart for the people...to do what He has called them too. It may be you or your dh or your neighbor...just have church people!"
> 
> It's easy to do something at home with your children, dh...but I'm talking about Kingdom business here....leading others to Christ who don't know Him, to the foot of the cross! That's our mandate as Christians!


 
Thanks for the clarification.  I live alone so I it really isn't as simple as saying, "yelp I'm at home and the family has the bible so that counts!"  

But even so I don't think that when 2 or more are gathered that any one must be annointed?  I'm not sure about that but I think I understand what you are saying about being taught the word of God.  

But I responded to your previous comment because I started thinking about the many times I've been in the company of "church folk" (my moms DH is a bishop) and my good friend is a paster... another friend is a greeter.. and so on... and we pray (about specific things and issues) and worship cry laugh together and generally encourage each other on many occassions.  

I don't know if that counts but that is what I am refering to.  I do not have the heart of an evangelist, however, I just try to let the way I live my life serve as an example to others and I'm not perfect. 

This has been an unresolved issue (church going) in my entire christian life but I think I am getting close to the truth about fellowship. 

thanks for this thread.


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## gone_fishing (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> No, I choose not to discuss anything in the OT forum anymore about the things of God.
> 
> 2008 is the year of New Beginnings. I thank God we have a CF so, I have decided to stay here.
> 
> ...


 
So are you limiting OT altogether. This is very interesting! Thanks for positng your thoughts.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

adequate said:


> So are you limiting OT altogether. This is very interesting! Thanks for positng your thoughts.


 
No, of course not.  However, if it has anything to do with Christianity, then I won't be participating over in the OT.

I choose which threads I go into in the OT forum.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

Fran said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I live alone so I it really isn't as simple as saying, "yelp I'm at home and the family has the bible so that counts!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I never said that anyone must be annointed.  What I said was that to pray and ask God to send someone who has a heart of worship, etc.  

When the first church started, there were those that were appointed to start those churches.  Remember, God appoints (ordains) people to do His work, so it should be someone who has been called or appointed to do this in the church.

However, you have the right to what you feel is right for you.

Blessings!


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## MsKipani (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I can totally agree with you.  We can have church in our home.  The church can be made up 2 or 3 people (more of course) to glorify God and edify one another...encouraging each other in love.
> 
> So I say...have church at home



I agree. I think that it can be very hard finding the right church home, so having church in your own home or a friends home is just as good if not better sometimes


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## Aveena (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I never said that anyone must be annointed. What I said was that to pray and ask God to send someone who has a heart of worship, etc.
> 
> When the first church started, there were those that were appointed to start those churches. Remember, God appoints (ordains) people to do His work, so it should be someone who has been called or appointed to do this in the church.
> 
> ...


 
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.  I put a question mark after that particular sentence only to get your thoughts on the matter.  It was meant as a question - not a response to anything you said.  

I appreciate your point of view that is why I asked. 

Thanks,
F


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

Fran said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I put a question mark after that particular sentence only to get your thoughts on the matter. It was meant as a question - not a response to anything you said.
> 
> I appreciate your point of view that is why I asked.
> 
> ...


 
No problem, sis.  I appreciate you coming to this thread with your thoughts and your heart.

Thank you....!


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

Isn’t it sadly funny how some of our jokes remind us of a sad truth? 

A man was stranded on a deserted Pacific island for years. Finally one day a boat comes sailing into view, and the man frantically waves and draws the skipper’s attention. The boat comes near the island and the sailor gets out and greets the stranded man. 

 After a while the sailor asks, “What are those three huts you have here?” 

“Well, that’s my house there.” 

“What’s that next hut?” asks the sailor. 

“I built that hut to be my church.” 

“What about the other hut?” 

“Oh, that’s where I used to go to church.” 

(There is a lesson to be learned about this little story)

There are some legitimate reasons for “changing churches,” but there are also some people who change congregations every couple of years simply because they have trouble getting along with other folks. Someone at church said something that made them mad or one of the songleaders doesn’t pick out songs they like or the elders decided to change the time of services, etc. etc. The reasons go on and on. You can just about mark on the calendar when they’ll leave to go to the next church. It makes you wonder if they would be happy in a church by themselves; perhaps, like the man in the story above, they would move somewhere else after a while just out of habit. 

Each of the New Testament letters is filled with instructions on how to get along with others in the church. There are a couple of reasons for that. It is important and it is difficult for all of us at times. But, it’s also what makes us Christians — this learning to get along with others by living with the character of Christ. Don’t just take my word for it, listen to what the Holy Spirit says to us through the apostle Paul: 

_*Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another... Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion... If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. **(Romans 12:9-10,15-16,18)*_


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## star (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, you can be a Christian and not go to Church but the question will be how strong of Christian will you be. In unity there is strength and of course the bible talks about not forsaking yourself together. In addtion, God places people together to do his work in the community. Your family is your ministry but there may be other places God can use you. God ordianed pastors and leaders to help people find their spiritual identity in Jesus.

If someone house burn down the first place they go is the Church. The Church is now a considered a entity that revives people and help the empowered the community becasue of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Lastly, becoming a Christian is confession and repentance to God with emersion of the water just like Jesus did. But what you do after that will determine your success as a Christian. Having success and power in Jesus takes home, Church, community, friends and a divine initmate relationship with Christ.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

How do you ladies think this scripture applies to the life of the modern Christian?

1 John 2:27

_27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. _

There are other scriptures about the Holy Spirit teaching us all things...I guess my question is...did God really intend for church to be the way it is now, with one man giving a message and the members accepting this as truth? (I'm not saying it's like this in every church). In many churches, there is no questioning the man of God. If you submit to his authority as pastor, then you accept what he teaches.

What do you ladies think?


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## dlewis (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> How do you ladies think this scripture applies to the life of the modern Christian?
> 
> 1 John 2:27
> 
> ...



I question everything.  If what he says does not line up with the Bible it's a no no is by book.  Every church I know of around here is like that, you don't question the minister.  It's almost is like man puts him up there with GD.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

star said:


> Yes, you can be a Christian and not go to Church but the question will be how strong of Christian will you be. In unity there is strength and of course the bible talks about not forsaking yourself together. In addtion, God places people together to do his work in the community. Your family is your ministry but there may be other places God can use you. God ordianed pastors and leaders to help people find their spiritual identity in Jesus.
> 
> If someone house burn down the first place the go is the Church. The Church is now a considered a entity that revives people and help the empowered the community becasue of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
> 
> Lastly, becoming a Christian is confession and repentance to God with emersion of the water just like Jesus did. But what you do after that will determine your success as a Christian. Having success and power in Jesus takes home, Church, community, friends and a divine initmate relationship with Christ.


 
Thanks, star!


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## MrzLogan (Jan 2, 2008)

star






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Posts: 3,149 





*Re: Can a Person Be a Christian and Not go to Church?* 
Yes, you can be a Christian and not go to Church but the question will be how strong of Christian will you be. In unity there is strength and of course the bible talks about not forsaking yourself together. In addtion, God places people together to do his work in the community. Your family is your ministry but there may be other places God can use you. God ordianed pastors and leaders to help people find their spiritual identity in Jesus.

If someone house burn down the first place the go is the Church. The Church is now a considered a entity that revives people and help the empowered the community becasue of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Lastly, becoming a Christian is confession and repentance to God with emersion of the water just like Jesus did. But what you do after that will determine your success as a Christian. Having success and power in Jesus takes home, Church, community, friends and a divine initmate relationship with Christ.


Amen, Sister!!  My thoughts exactly.  Along with attending a church and being under spiritual leadership, is the accountability to the Body of Christ.  It is a lot easier for people to backslide when they are not in a church and don't have responsibility.  One of the first visible signs of backsliding is when people stop coming to church.  

I do agree with many of the statements that have been made, as we are all aware that the early churches began in people's homes.    However, spiritually everyone has been assigned to a leader, and it may be by not attending a church you are not receiving (or are missing out on) the word that God has for you through the shephard he has placed over you.  I can't imagine how spiritually immature I would be if I didn't attend church.  

In the mean while, I pray you all find a wonderful church home that you can receive the pure unadulterated word of God!!  There is strength when we come together as a body.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

dlewis said:


> I question everything. If what he says does not line up with the Bible it's a no no is by book. Every church I know of around here is like that, you don't question the minister. It's almost is like man puts him up there with GD.


 
See, that's what I'm saying. I love my old pastor, don't get me wrong, but there were a lot of...untruths...in a lot of what he preached.  He would always say "study on your own and if it doesn't line up, you don't have to accept it", but the vibe was very different. It was clear that if you were questioning anything, it was the devil trying to cause confusion.

Once I left and really started studying without the cloud of the church's vision, I got so much more from my Bible. I didn't feel that pressure anymore, and I heard the Holy Spirit speaking much more clearly.


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## Aveena (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> How do you ladies think this scripture applies to the life of the modern Christian?
> 
> 1 John 2:27
> 
> ...


 
very interesting....  I read the entire chapter just to get a feel for the verse in context.... very interesting.  Thanks for sharing.


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## motherx2esq (Jan 2, 2008)

I am a Christian, have been for years.  It took me a long time to find a church home but I was still a Christian during that time.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

Fran said:


> very interesting.... I read the entire chapter just to get a feel for the verse in context.... very interesting. Thanks for sharing.


 
You're welcome! I'd love to know your thoughts when you get a chance.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> How do you ladies think this scripture applies to the life of the modern Christian?
> 
> 1 John 2:27
> 
> ...


 
I don't think there should be any one person that anyone should take what they say as bond.  We must always take what is being said by what the scriptures teach.

However, in that....here you can see what Jesus instructed Peter to do:

"....Feed my lambs." John 21:15:b

"....Take care of my sheep." John 21:16b

"....Feed my sheep." John 21:17b


Here is when the Church was first established:

Acts 2: 14-47 says this: (I copied and pasted this...too much to type...lol)

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spake forth unto them, saying, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and give ear unto my words. 


 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose; seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 

 16 but this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel: 

 17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: 

 18 Yea and on my servants and on my handmaidens in those days Will I pour forth of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. 

 19 And I will show wonders in the heaven above, And signs on the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: 

 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day. 

 21 And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 

 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know; 

 23 him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay: 

 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 

 25 For David saith concerning him, I beheld the Lord always before my face; For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 

 26 Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced; Moreover my flesh also shall dwell in hope: 

 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption. 

 28 Thou madest known unto me the ways of life; Thou shalt make me full of gladness with thy countenance. 

 29 Brethren, I may say unto you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us unto this day. 

 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins he would set one upon his throne; 

 31 he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 

 32 This Jesus did God raise up, whereof we all are witnesses. 

 33 Being therefore by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath poured forth this, which ye see and hear. 

 34 For David ascended not into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 

 35 Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet. 

 36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified. 

 37 *Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? *

* 38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. *

* 39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him. *

* 40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. *

* 41 They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls. *

* 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and the prayers. *

* 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. *

* 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; *

* 45 and they sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all, according as any man had need. *

* 46 And day by day, continuing stedfastly with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread at home, they took their food with gladness and singleness of heart, *

*47 praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to them day by day those that were saved.* 
 Now, I wanted to really show the bolded verses, because it shows Peter speaking to a congregation of people, who never heard the word before, and then shows how their lives changed by the message that was preached.

The Lord begin to add daily, those who were saved....thus, church was formed.

Now, verse 42 shows that the people continued steadfastly or continually in the Apostles teachings.  They listened to the men of God.  

Now, further on in the book of Acts, we see that the Holy Spirit sent them off to do the work in other areas of the world as well, therefore they were given the ok to ordain men to preach this message to others.  Someone had to stay behind with those that were first preached the Gospel message, right?

This is where you can say that there were ordained, pastors, teachers, deacons, etc...for the work of the ministry and for the edifying of the saints.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

motherx2esq said:


> I am a Christian, have been for years. It took me a long time to find a church home but I was still a Christian during that time.


 
Looking to find a church home and just not going to church are too different things.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

dlewis said:


> I question everything. If what he says does not line up with the Bible it's a no no is by book. Every church I know of around here is like that, you don't question the minister. It's almost is like man puts him up there with GD.


 
I agree with you about questioning things.  

I know for a fact, as a pastor and a member of the Body of Christ, that if I put man up on some kind of pedestal and listen to every word that he/she says, then I have to question my own faith and where I stand as a born again believer in Jesus Christ.

The bible clearly states for us to _"do not believe every spirit, but test the spirit to see if they are from God, because there are many false prophets have gone out into the world."  I John 4:1_

We have to discern everything because there are things that satan puts out there to deceive all man, even the very elect of God.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

MrzLogan said:


> star
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for your post and yes, I have a wonderful church home that I attend and am so blessed to be around such loving, caring, wonderful people!


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I don't think there should be any one person that anyone should take what they say as bond. We must always take what is being said by what the scriptures teach.
> 
> However, in that....here you can see what Jesus instructed Peter to do:
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for your response!

Let me ask you this...do you think the early church ran the way churches run today...with a single pastor heading it up, and only him preaching a sermon on Sunday? I can't remember where I read it, but I remember reading about the history of the early church, and that fellowship back then included the people asking Paul and the others questions and talking amongst each other. I'm going to try to find that.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I agree with you about questioning things.
> 
> I know for a fact, as a pastor and a member of the Body of Christ, that if I put man up on some kind of pedestal and listen to every word that he/she says, then I have to question my own faith and where I stand as a born again believer in Jesus Christ.
> 
> ...


 
I agree, but what if your church teaches that if the man of God says something, it is straight from God (and many churches teach this? The Holy Sprit doesn't contradict Himself...so if the pastor says God is speaking through him, yet it contradicts what you read and hear in your own studies, then how do you reconcile that? Obviously, no church is perfect, but if you get more of the truth studying on your own and with other brothers and sisters than you do in a sermon, what do you do.

Mind you, I don't think this is an issue at churches where there is actual teaching straight from the Bible, but I'm talking about places where there is "revelation" and "a new vision".


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I agree with you about questioning things.
> 
> I know for a fact, as a pastor and a member of the Body of Christ, that if I put man up on some kind of pedestal and listen to every word that he/she says, then I have to question my own faith and where I stand as a born again believer in Jesus Christ.
> 
> ...


 
One more question... What if 95% of what is taught is right, but 5% is false teaching? I know someone who was dealing with this, and her spirit was grieved for a long time. She finally left that church, and she has yet to find another because once she started really studying, her standards went way up.


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## PaperClip (Jan 2, 2008)

You all are having a rich conversation here.... I'll just keep listening/reading after this point.

I believe it was Adequate who made the point about folk being hurt and/or disengaged by the church as a predominant reason for lack of attendance. I believe that if we took a survey, that would get high marks.

One thing I do know is that there is NO PERFECT CHURCH, only a PERFECT LORD. So while a church, just like a spouse, isn't perfect, there's a place and space for the assembly of believers to come together and fellowship and encourage one another in the Lord. 

(chuckle) Think about it this way: every church you could say began as a small group meeting in a home. There may be a time and season for a person and/or family to do that because that may be the way the Lord wants to do some inner healing....

I would encourage you all to be open to the leading of the Lord to lead you to a church where you can not only go to fellowship or to be served, but for you TO SERVE. You all have gifts and talents that the Body of Christ needs beyond your small group, your four and no more...again, moving in the right time and season....

Peace and blessings and COURAGE....


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> You all are having a rich conversation here.... I'll just keep listening/reading after this point.
> 
> I believe it was Adequate who made the point about folk being hurt and/or disengaged by the church as a predominant reason for lack of attendance. I believe that if we took a survey, that would get high marks.
> 
> ...


 
Do you think a person can serve others without the aid of a church?


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> Thank you for your response!
> 
> Let me ask you this...do you think the early church ran the way churches run today...with a single pastor heading it up, and only him preaching a sermon on Sunday? I can't remember where I read it, but I remember reading about the history of the early church, and that fellowship back then included the people asking Paul and the others questions and talking amongst each other. I'm going to try to find that.


 
You are welcome, lauren.

No, the church is not run the same way.  

However, there can be no man that is an island.  There has to be others to assist him and be apart of the work of the ministry.  That's what makes up the part of the Body of Christ.  ie: Someone has to be the head (which is Jesus), then there is the neck...(can you imagine a person who has a head just on a body and no neck?  LOL) then the shoulders, arms, hands, etc.

We are to be of one body.  But, I do believe that there has to be someone that God has ordained to take the leadership role.  Let me give you and example why:

On the job there has to be a boss (leader) of the company.  Although he is the boss, he still has to have someone under him that is capable of doing a job of managing the company.  The manager has to have a supervisor (or several depending on the size of the company) and then there are the employees.

If everybody is the boss, what will ensue?  There will be total chaos!  Nobody would get any work done because everybody would want to do what they want to do and no one will have the vision of the leader (boss) about the company.  The company will fold...and the people will be out of a job, therefore can't take care of their family, etc.

Now, if the boss tried to do everything in the company, he will burn out because he can't do it all.  He needs the others to help him so that everything that is needed to be accomplished will be.

Order is necessary for the church and the Lord knew that, that is why men were ordained to leadership within the Church.

When people come from under the headship (Christ) and do their own thing, this is where you begin to see the mess we see in our world today within the church, whether it be in the pulpit or in the pews.


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## PaperClip (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> Do you think a person can serve others without the aid of a church?


 
Of course. It's not an either/or. It's a matter of assignment/purpose.... and if holds (righteous or otherwise) reluctance/hostility toward the institution, then one could be dodging their assignment....

Jonah tried to run....LOL!


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Of course. It's not an either/or. It's a matter of assignment/purpose.... and if holds (righteous or otherwise) reluctance/hostility toward the institution, then one could be dodging their assignment....
> 
> Jonah tried to run....LOL!


 
LOL. I've seen the opposite too, though. People get so comfortable going to church twice a week and tithing, they think that's the extent ot their service, or they believe they are serving by proxy.

I wonder what would happen if God called us all out of church and into the world. In fact, I'd love that.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> I agree, *but what if your church teaches that if the man of God says something, it is straight from God* (and many churches teach this? The Holy Sprit doesn't contradict Himself...so if the pastor says God is speaking through him, yet it contradicts what you read and hear in your own studies, then how do you reconcile that? Obviously, no church is perfect, but if you get more of the truth studying on your own and with other brothers and sisters than you do in a sermon, what do you do.
> 
> Mind you, I don't think this is an issue at churches where there is actual teaching straight from the Bible, but I'm talking about places where there is "revelation" and "a new vision".


 
I have to again question where are you in your walk with God that you have to listen to what the man of God is saying and not hearing from the Holy Spirit.

The bible says our obediance is to God.  We must respect those who are in authority over us, but if something is out of order and I know this, then I question the leader,* in love and respect*, about what I think I heard him/her say.  Sometimes, it's important to do this because we can think we have heard something and that person meant something totally different.

If the leader then says something to me personally that I know is totally off base and will not be willing to listen to me about my reservations, then I will make a decision, based on what the Lord is telling me.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I have to again question where are you in your walk with God that you have to listen to what the man of God is saying and not hearing from the Holy Spirit.
> 
> The bible says our obediance is to God. We must respect those who are in authority over us, but if something is out of order and I know this, then I question the leader,* in love and respect*, about what I think I heard him/her say. Sometimes, it's important to do this because we can think we have heard something and that person meant something totally different.
> 
> If the leader then says something to me personally that I know is totally off base and will not be willing to listen to me about my reservations, then I will make a decision, based on what the Lord is telling me.


 
ITA with you. That's why I don't begrudge anyone their outside fellowship. Maybe it's just the area I'm in, but it's HARD to find a place that allows for anyone to question or correct the leadership (in love, of course). It's also hard to find a pastor who is truly teaching the Word, even 90% of the time.

I understand the analogy about the spouse, but the thing is...at what point do you say, hey, this person probably won't change? This person is great 90% of the time, but then they straight lie to me the other 10%? You move on, at some point.

I'm enjoying this discussion, ladies! 

I want to know more thoughts on that 1 John passage too, yall.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> One more question... What if 95% of what is taught is right, but 5% is false teaching? I know someone who was dealing with this, and her spirit was grieved for a long time. She finally left that church, and she has yet to find another because once she started really studying, her standards went way up.


 
They aren't perfect and neither is she.

I have to question...did she go to the pastor with her reservations?  Did she talk to the other leadership in the church about her concerns?
Because she is not going to church now and her standards has gone way up, what is she doing that will change her situation and make it better?  Is she going to begin a home church where she can get the word and help to build up other believers and non-believers who also don't go to church?

These are very important questions to ask her, lauren.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> You all are having a rich conversation here.... I'll just keep listening/reading after this point.
> 
> I believe it was Adequate who made the point about folk being hurt and/or disengaged by the church as a predominant reason for lack of attendance. I believe that if we took a survey, that would get high marks.
> 
> ...


 
I appreciate your input and wise counsel, RR.  Thank you.


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## star (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thanks, star!



My pleasure!!


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> LOL. I've seen the opposite too, though. People get so comfortable going to church twice a week and tithing, they think that's the extent ot their service, or they believe they are serving by proxy.
> 
> I wonder what would happen if God called us all out of church and into the world. In fact, I'd love that.


 
Lauren, He already has...from the foundation of the church.

That's what evangelism is about.  Going out into the world and preaching the Gospel to every person.  I do it all the time...there are so many people that come to salvation.  I pray for people on the corners, in the subways, in the supermarkets, Walmart, Target, wherever the Lord leads.

It's awesome, Lauren and you should do it.  

Now, when you do....who then is going to disciple the people?  Where will they go?  How will they know how to live a productive, Christian lifestyle?

Are you going to open up your doors for them or are you going to send them somewhere to be discipled or are you going to say, "ok, be blessed...have a nice day?"

I'm not trying to be a hard-nose here but this is a serious question that I would like for you to answer. 

Thanks, lauren.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> They aren't perfect and neither is she.
> 
> I have to question...did she go to the pastor with her reservations? Did she talk to the other leadership in the church about her concerns?
> Because she is not going to church now and her standards has gone way up, what is she doing that will change her situation and make it better? Is she going to begin a home church where she can get the word and help to build up other believers and non-believers who also don't go to church?
> ...


 
Her church had 24,000 members, so no, she couldn't go to the pastor. She went to the head of her prayer ministry and was told that it was Satan causing her to question the man of God. They told her to pray if she felt that strongly about it. She did that, but it didn't get any better, and she finally left after trying to meet with a different minister and getting blown off.

She's been doing home Bible study with a group, and she has tried to find other church homes, but hasn't been led anywhere. In all honesty, she is a lot happier and she has more peace now.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Lauren, He already has...from the foundation of the church.
> 
> That's what evangelism is about. Going out into the world and preaching the Gospel to every person. I do it all the time...there are so many people that come to salvation. I pray for people on the corners, in the subways, in the supermarkets, Walmart, Target, wherever the Lord leads.
> 
> ...


 
Oh, I know what my calling is, and I'm carrying it out.

Everything a believer needs to know about living a productive Christian lifestyle can be found in the Bible. But I know you know that.

If a person needs to be discipled, God will lead them to someone, be it a church or another believer, or me. It's not as complicated as we make it out to be.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> Her church had 24,000 members, so no, she couldn't go to the pastor. She went to the head of her prayer ministry and was told that it was Satan causing her to question the man of God. They told her to pray if she felt that strongly about it. She did that, but it didn't get any better, and she finally left after trying to meet with a different minister and getting blown off.
> 
> She's been doing home Bible study with a group, and she has tried to find other church homes, but hasn't been led anywhere. In all honesty, she is a lot happier and she has more peace now.


 
Most churches start in the home Bible studies so maybe this is what the Lord wants her to do....begin her own church.  Maybe she needs to stop looking for a church home, and start looking at her own home, literally.

As much as I love my church, my pastor, my friends in the Lord...dh and I are going to start our own church in our home this year.  Why?  Because this is what the Lord is instructing us to do and we must be obedient to the Father.

Does it hurt us?  Yes it does, because we are so in love with our church and the members there, but we know that the Lord is calling us to something different....a ministry that will work on a different scale then where we are and although we have been a blessing to the ministry there, its time to grow further and utilize our gifts for others in the area where we live.

Now, does our pastor care?  Oh, yes and he rejoices over the fact that we are being obediant to God.  He said he is losing two of the best people, but he understands about moving forward and pressing toward the mark of the high calling in Christ Jesus.  That is how he started out himself...in his own house and now, he has a congregation that loves him and loves the church body. 

Do they get on his nerves sometimes?  Yes...shoot, I get on my own nerves sometimes....(that's what he said to us....lol)


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## star (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> One more question... What if 95% of what is taught is right, but 5% is false teaching? I know someone who was dealing with this, and her spirit was grieved for a long time. She finally left that church, and she has yet to find another because once she started really studying, her standards went way up.



It could be false teaching or ignorance. Either way it is up to us who know better to pray for our leaders and let GOD lead us and not ourselves. No Pastor or person is pefect and everybody is growing. I know members of Churches who have more knowledge than the Pastor but God did not anoint them to be Pastor. It our job to be where God wants us to be. Perhaphs he would have you in a Church were the Pastor is hypocrite in some ways so we pray to God for him that God will break his will. *We do not go to a Church for a person but we go where God wants us to be *for that season we do not move until he says move. My close friend is on fire and I mean fire but her Church is dead including Pastor. God sent her there to help with the praise and worship and many around say, "why are you there with that power?" and she tells that God sent her there to do a work and she cannot leave until he moves her.

No church is perfect from the pulpit from the door. God had me stay at Church were the Pastor was young and carnal but told me to pray for him that his will would be broken. Once I finish my work he moved me out of there but I never said anything to people. I just talk to God about it.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> Oh, I know what my calling is, and I'm carrying it out.
> 
> Everything a believer needs to know about living a productive Christian lifestyle can be found in the Bible. But I know you know that.
> 
> *If a person needs to be discipled, God will lead them to someone, be it a church or another believer, or me. It's not as complicated as we make it out to be.*


 
A person does need to be discipled, lauren.  Just like with little children, when we give birth to them, we don't just say to them..."ok, feed yourself now and don't forget to change your diapers).  We must help them until they are able to help themselves.

We can't just leave people out there....that's one of the reasons as to why God created the church....so that WE can help others in the way!  

We are the body...it's our hands and feet that does the work within the church.  It's not complicated but necessary to see the work get done.


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## PaperClip (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> As much as I love my church, my pastor, my friends in the Lord...dh and I are going to start our own church in our home this year. Why? Because this is what the Lord is instructing us to do and we must be obedient to the Father.
> 
> Does it hurt us? Yes it does, because we are so in love with our church and the members there, but we know that the Lord is calling us to something different....a ministry that will work on a different scale then where we are and although we have been a blessing to the ministry there, its time to grow further and utilize our gifts for others in the area where we live.
> 
> *Now, does our pastor care? Oh, yes and he rejoices over the fact that we are being obediant to God. He said he is losing two of the best people, but he understands about moving forward and pressing toward the mark of the high calling in Christ Jesus.* That is how he started out himself...in his own house and now, he has a congregation that loves him and loves the church body.


 
And this is where SOOOO MANY people miss it. Moving out BEFORE the time/season. I know plenty of folk to whom the Lord has called to pastorship, but they are still serving in their local churches UNTIL the Lord releases them (99 percent of the time with the BLESSING of their pastoral leader) to go forth.

Congrats and prayers with you and your husband, N&W as you enter into pastorship. It's no joke, as I'm sure you already know, but whom the Lord calls, He equips.... Amen.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> And this is where SOOOO MANY people miss it. Moving out BEFORE the time/season. I know plenty of folk to whom the Lord has called to pastorship, but they are still serving in their local churches UNTIL the Lord releases them (99 percent of the time with the BLESSING of their pastoral leader) to go forth.
> 
> Congrats and prayers with you and your husband, N&W as you enter into pastorship. It's no joke, as I'm sure you already know, but whom the Lord calls, He equips.... Amen.


 
Thank you, sis.  Although we haven't had our own church, we have been pastoring for the last number of years where we've been and we have a marriage ministry that we have been doing aside from the church where we attend.  It's no joke....

However, through it all....God gives us the strength to endure and I look forward to the people He is going to bring to our home so that we can be a blessing to their lives and they to ours!


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm leaving the forum for tonite, but I will return to continue this convo (if you ladies desire to) tommorrow.

Have a blessed evening!


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## Southernbella. (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> A person does need to be discipled, lauren. Just like with little children, when we give birth to them, we don't just say to them..."ok, feed yourself now and don't forget to change your diapers). We must help them until they are able to help themselves.
> 
> We can't just leave people out there....that's one of the reasons as to why God created the church....so that WE can help others in the way!
> 
> We are the body...it's our hands and feet that does the work within the church. It's not complicated but necessary to see the work get done.


 
I don't see where I disagreed. I said that person will be led somewhere, be it a church, another believer, or sticking with the person who led them to Christ.

Also, the Bible makes it clear that we are the church. Every believer, not every church building.


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## Gisselle (Jan 2, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> You all are having a rich conversation here.... I'll just keep listening/reading after this point.
> 
> I believe it was Adequate who made the point about folk being hurt and/or disengaged by the church as a predominant reason for lack of attendance. I believe that if we took a survey, that would get high marks.
> 
> ...


I agree with the bold.


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## Aveena (Jan 2, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> You're welcome! I'd love to know your thoughts when you get a chance.


 
After reading this thread... I know I'm late to respond but I basically agree with you. 

John 14:26 Jesus says, "But the Holy Spirit will come and help you, because the Father will send the Spirit to take my place. The Spirit will teach you everything and will remind you of what I said while I was with you."

My thoughts are basically this.... 
We all are at different levels of knowledge in the spirit. 

Some of us are new christians some of us are mature christians. 

We don't instantly learn everything from the Holy Spirit. The learning process takes place over time. Don't threaten people, encourage them to find wisdom James 1:5 and do the right thing James 1:21-22. 

If you believe in Christ you are a Christian: 
John 14:6
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 

I don't think people should concern themselves with others trying to take away their christian label. It's just that a label.


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## gradygirl (Jan 2, 2008)

I do believe you can be a Christian and not go to church. My dad was a christian that alot of people wrongfully jugded thoughout his life because he did not attend church.They were on the outside looking in and this still happens alot with people in the church. They did not see what I saw. I saw my father praying on his knees all through the day, reading his bible, helping strangers, raising 3 children alone when our mother died and being an humble non gossiping man of God. He did not even like to talk on the telephone to much because he thought it led to gossiping and talking about people. Me and my brothers all went to church with my mom and he never discouraged that even when she died he told us to continue to go church. He told me that he had no confidence in the church anymore but it was still good to go but that the church was in my heart. He said God was coming back after people with the right heart and not a building. He taught me to not put much confidence in people because everyone makes mistakes but to always know God for myself. He died in 1992 and I have no doubt that he made it in. He was jugded by the head deacon, who also was the biggest drug dealer in our county, He was jugded by the treasurer, who was sleeping with the church mothers husband. He was jugded by the church secretary, who went to root workers to solve her problems and to get spells to keep her drug dealing husband out of jail.
These people were at the church everyday but my dad was not and he treated people better. Those people had their titles but my dad a good heart. I'm sorry for the long post but this really struck home with me. Thats why I dont judge people that dont go to church because we dont know what they do at home and we dont know whats in their heart. I found out after my dad died by my aunt that he had been deeply wounded by a pastor when he was a young man and thats why de did not go to church. He even told me before he died to not have his funeral at the church because he thought it would be hypocritical of him to go in death when he did not go in life and I honored his request. My dad taught me how to live right, not by words but by the way he carried himself. He was a great example for me to follow. The church is helpful but not mandatory. If you have the mind to be saved and live right than God will help you no matter where you are.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 3, 2008)

gradygirl said:


> I do believe you can be a Christian and not go to church. My dad was a christian that alot of people wrongfully jugded thoughout his life because he did not attend church.They were on the outside looking in and this still happens alot with people in the church. They did not see what I saw. I saw my father praying on his knees all through the day, reading his bible, helping strangers, raising 3 children alone when our mother died and being an humble non gossiping man of God. He did not even like to talk on the telephone to much because he thought it led to gossiping and talking about people. Me and my brothers all went to church with my mom and he never discouraged that even when she died he told us to continue to go church. He told me that he had no confidence in the church anymore but it was still good to go but that the church was in my heart. He said God was coming back after people with the right heart and not a building. He taught me to not put much confidence in people because everyone makes mistakes but to always know God for myself. He died in 1992 and I have no doubt that he made it in. He was jugded by the head deacon, who also was the biggest drug dealer in our county, He was jugded by the treasurer, who was sleeping with the church mothers husband. He was jugded by the church secretary, who went to root workers to solve her problems and to get spells to keep her drug dealing husband out of jail.
> These people were at the church everyday but my dad was not and he treated people better. Those people had their titles but my dad a good heart. I'm sorry for the long post but this really struck home with me. Thats why I dont judge people that dont go to church because we dont know what they do at home and we dont know whats in their heart. I found out after my dad died by my aunt that he had been deeply wounded by a pastor when he was a young man and thats why de did not go to church. He even told me before he died to not have his funeral at the church because he thought it would be hypocritical of him to go in death when he did not go in life and I honored his request. My dad taught me how to live right, not by words but by the way he carried himself. He was a great example for me to follow. The church is helpful but not mandatory. If you have the mind to be saved and live right than God will help you no matter where you are.


 
((((Hugs)))) I'm sure he made it in, too. Your daddy sounds like he was a good father, and a good man of God.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 3, 2008)

Fran said:


> After reading this thread... I know I'm late to respond but I basically agree with you.
> 
> John 14:26 Jesus says, "But the Holy Spirit will come and help you, because the Father will send the Spirit to take my place. The Spirit will teach you everything and will remind you of what I said while I was with you."
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for your response! We're ---->here<-----.

I have one more question for everyone...is it necessary to join a church? 

What if you find a good church to fellowship in, but you don't join it (like sign the pledge card, submit to the pastor's headship, etc.) Are you being disobedient? The Bible says nothing about exclusive church membership, so why wouldn't it be fine to go and fellowship sometimes? Can we accept that not everyone's calling is tied up in a specific church building?


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 3, 2008)

Good morning, ladies.  It's a great day!

I would like for us to stay on the topic at hand.  I can tell its going a little off course and its not that I don't want to answer the questions, but I would really like for the questions to remain within the topic original question.

Thanks and blessings to all!


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## envybeauty (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Good morning, ladies.  It's a great day!
> 
> I would like for us to stay on the topic at hand.  I can tell its going a little off course and its not that I don't want to answer the questions, but I would really like for the questions to remain within the topic original question.
> 
> Thanks and blessings to all!




Good morning! 

I too hate the off track questions but it is good for us to discuss related questions as the discussion can help others as they mature in their spiritual walk.  It is when one is able to answer these related questions that they are able to ascertain for themselves where they stand in the church.

But I see your point and I am glad for the energetic discourse in this forum.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 3, 2008)

nvybeauty said:


> Good morning!
> 
> I too hate the off track questions but it is good for us to discuss related questions as the discussion can help others as they mature in their spiritual walk. It is when one is able to answer these related questions that they are able to ascertain for themselves where they stand in the church.
> 
> But I see your point and I am glad for the energetic discourse in this forum.


 
Thank you sis.  I do understand that as well, but I know that confusion can also set in....already got a couple of pm's about it.

Thank you for your post....blessings!


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## envybeauty (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> A person does need to be discipled, lauren.  Just like with little children, when we give birth to them, we don't just say to them..."ok, feed yourself now and don't forget to change your diapers).  We must help them until they are able to help themselves.
> 
> We can't just leave people out there....that's one of the reasons as to why God created the church....so that WE can help others in the way!
> 
> We are the body...it's our hands and feet that does the work within the church.  It's not complicated but necessary to see the work get done.



Disciplined would not be my choice word for what you are describing.  I believe that only God can discipline Christians, not the church. As I am using the word, I define it as bringing to a state of obedience by training and control.  If a person was to get out of line then only God can punish that person to the point of submission, not the church. 

I believe that a person can be a Christian and not go to church.  Just as a person can go to church and not be a Christian. I'll take the extra step to say that many that do go to church (whether a building or a prayer group) are not Christians and it's not because they don't want to be.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 3, 2008)

nvybeauty said:


> Disciplined would not be my choice word for what you are describing. I believe that only God can discipline Christians, not the church. As I am using the word, I define it as bringing to a state of obedience by training and control. If a person was to get out of line then only God can punish that person to the point of submission, not the church.
> 
> I believe that a person can be a Christian and not go to church. Just as a person can go to church and not be a Christian. I'll take the extra step to say that many that do go to church (whether a building or a prayer group) are not Christians and it's not because they don't want to be.


 
nvybeauty, I didn't say *disciplined*, I said "*discipled*" ....as a person/persons who help people to be more in love with Him (Jesus) and to grow in characteristics that radiate Him to others.


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## envybeauty (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> nvybeauty, I didn't say *disciplined*, I said "*discipled*" ....as a person/persons who help people to be more in love with Him (Jesus) and to grow in characteristics that radiate Him to others.



my bad    i'm glad you pointed that out... i agree with you then b/c even Jesus found disciples for himself and asked them to go with him when he went to pray three times, though they slept.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 3, 2008)

nvybeauty said:


> my bad  i'm glad you pointed that out... i agree with you then b/c even Jesus found disciples for himself and asked them to go with him when he went to pray three times, though they slept.


 
No problem, sis!


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## Ariana4000 (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I'm Christian but I don't have a church.  I have been searching for one off and on.  I am Catholic and I am so overwhelmed with all the things I have to do to be a full Catholic.  My Catholic family members are not into going to church either.  I have never been confirmed.  Second, I haven't been to confession in years.  I'm feeling very pressed to find a church soon because I'm pregnant and I have a child.  I want them to grow up in church, but I'm not sure if I want to remain Catholic.


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## Caramela (Jan 3, 2008)

There is strength in numbers... I would say you'd be a weaker Christian at best without the proper fellowship.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 3, 2008)

Ariana4000 said:


> Well, I'm Christian but I don't have a church. I have been searching for one off and on. I am Catholic and I am so overwhelmed with all the things I have to do to be a full Catholic. My Catholic family members are not into going to church either. I have never been confirmed. Second, I haven't been to confession in years. I'm feeling very pressed to find a church soon because I'm pregnant and I have a child. I want them to grow up in church, but I'm not sure if I want to remain Catholic.


 
I can understand.  My advice:  Have a heart-felt talk with Father God and ask Him where His desire is for you to be...where your gifts, love and committment can be best utilized for others!

He will never fail you....He is such a trustworthy God!  

He said this:

_*Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For everyone that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. (Matt.7:7-8)*_

_*HTH


*_


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 3, 2008)

Caramela said:


> There is strength in numbers... I would say you'd be a weaker Christian at best without the proper fellowship.


 
Well, alright now....


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## Aveena (Jan 3, 2008)

Ariana4000 said:


> Well, I'm Christian but I don't have a church. I have been searching for one off and on. I am Catholic and I am so overwhelmed with all the things I have to do to be a full Catholic. My Catholic family members are not into going to church either. I have never been confirmed. Second, I haven't been to confession in years. I'm feeling very pressed to find a church soon because I'm pregnant and I have a child. I want them to grow up in church, but I'm not sure if I want to remain Catholic.


 
I was Catholic as a child and I am considering returning to the Catholic church


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## Sui Topi (Jan 3, 2008)

Caramela said:


> There is strength in numbers... I would say you'd be a weaker Christian at best without the proper fellowship.



It's true...and anyway, although worshiping at home is great...even a necessary action in a christians life (I do it with my son every night and morning, and this year am trying to get up early enough to include my husband before he goes to work in the morning), why would you settle for just that when you can go to church and in a sense be a louder voice? Everyone then has that argument about peoples attitudes in church turning them off, but my favourite thing to say to them is "you're not perfect so how can you expect everyone else to be?" We are all there with our imperfections calling on God to enter our lives and correct us.


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## gradygirl (Jan 3, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> ((((Hugs)))) I'm sure he made it in, too. Your daddy sounds like he was a good father, and a good man of God.


Thanks Lauren.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Good morning, ladies. It's a great day!
> 
> I would like for us to stay on the topic at hand. I can tell its going a little off course and its not that I don't want to answer the questions, but I would really like for the questions to remain within the topic original question.
> 
> Thanks and blessings to all!


 
So, what are we "allowed" to discuss or not discuss here? Because I can always ask my questions to those willing to have a discussion in another thread. I didn't realize there were rules.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 3, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> So, what are we "allowed" to discuss or not discuss here? Because I can always ask my questions to those willing to have a discussion in another thread. I didn't realize there were rules.


 
Lauren,

I was not being disrespectful to you or anyone else when I asked that of the ladies.  I never said that you were not allowed or that there were rules, I just asked since I was the originator of the thread, that we stay on topic.  I didn't see anything wrong in asking that.

Thank you.

ETA: If you, lauren, feel the need to go to others to ask the questions you would like, by all means do so.  No problem here.


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## beaux cheveux (Jan 3, 2008)

I dont believe a has to go to church to be saved. We are saved by serving Christ but going to church is good for edification. 
Honestly I am at odds with my church right now. They pretty much abandoed my family at our time of need or looked the other way. The pastor didn't really seem to care what we were going through. (God forgive me, but I have to tell it how it is) I am praying that God will one day led us to a home church because I don't think we are being called to start a church. My family is going through a spritual conflict right now and I'm asking for your prayers. 

~Thank you


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## Sui Topi (Jan 3, 2008)

beaux cheveux said:


> I dont believe a has to go to church to be saved. We are saved by serving Christ but going to church is good for edification.
> Honestly I am at odds with my church right now. They pretty much abandoed my family at our time of need or looked the other way. The pastor didn't really seem to care what we were going through. (God forgive me, but I have to tell it how it is) I am praying that God will one day led us to a home church because I don't think we are being called to start a church. My family is going through a spritual conflict right now and I'm asking for your prayers.
> 
> ~Thank you



Thats really messed up. I'll keep you in my prayers and also your church because its sounds like they REALLY need His influence


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 4, 2008)

beaux cheveux said:


> I dont believe a has to go to church to be saved. We are saved by serving Christ but going to church is good for edification.
> Honestly I am at odds with my church right now. They pretty much abandoed my family at our time of need or looked the other way. The pastor didn't really seem to care what we were going through. (God forgive me, but I have to tell it how it is) I am praying that God will one day led us to a home church because I don't think we are being called to start a church. My family is going through a spritual conflict right now and I'm asking for your prayers.
> 
> ~Thank you


 
No, you don't have to go to church to be saved.  I got saved on a street corner almost 21 years ago...haven't turned back since.  

I am sorry for the hurt you and your family are feeling because of the hurt people in your church, including the pastor.

HURT PEOPLE, HURT PEOPLE. 

I will be praying for you and your family.  God is in the midst of you, keep your eyes upon Him...He will never, ever let you down.  

Blessings to you, always!


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## sharentu (Jan 4, 2008)

thanks for posting this thread.  very insightful and needed for me.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 4, 2008)

sharentu said:


> thanks for posting this thread. very insightful and needed for me.


 
You are welcome, sharentu...thanks for posting!


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