# Bush says he doubts Bible is literally true



## HeChangedMyName (Dec 9, 2008)

I've just put a snippet of the full article in the post, but Bush is. . . .wow.  I never knew.

http://news.aol.com/article/bush-says-he-doubts-bible-literally-true/264531

Interviewer Cynthia McFadden  asked Bush if the Bible was literally true.
"You know. Probably not. ...  No, I'm not a literalist, but I think you can learn a lot from it, but I do  think that the New Testament for example is ... has got ... You know, the  important lesson is 'God sent a son,'" Bush said.
 "It is hard for me to justify  or prove the mystery of the Almighty in my life," he said. "All I can just tell  you is that I got back into religion and I quit drinking shortly thereafter and  I asked for help. ... I was a one-step program guy."
 The president also said that he  prays to the same God as those with different religious beliefs.


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## Crackers Phinn (Dec 9, 2008)

Can't say I didn't see that coming.


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## chicacanella (Dec 9, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> I've just put a snippet of the full article in the post, but Bush is. . . .wow. I never knew.
> 
> http://news.aol.com/article/bush-says-he-doubts-bible-literally-true/264531
> 
> ...


 

*This is why we should pray for our leaders. *

*But if he doesn't believe the bible is literally true, then how can he be sure if "salvation" is literally true? Does he just pick and choose what he believes as literal.erplexed*


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## HeChangedMyName (Dec 9, 2008)

JCoily said:


> Can't say I didn't see that coming.


ya know



chicacanella said:


> *This is why we should pray for our leaders. *
> 
> *But if he doesn't believe the bible is literally true, then how can he be sure if "salvation" is literally true? Does he just pick and choose what he believes as literal.erplexed*



exactly, he seem stumped by the questions.  Wonder why the interviewer was talking about religion


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## MizzBrown (Dec 9, 2008)

And yet folks voted for this man....twice. SMH.


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## chicacanella (Dec 9, 2008)

MizzBrown said:


> And yet folks voted for this man....twice. SMH.


 
*I feel like, even though people voted him in ...we still have to pray for him.*

*I even think in the bible, God's people were to pray for Nebuchanezzer and we know before that seven years in the wilderness that this man was not a man of God.*


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2008)

I love this thread...All ready....  

Bright Star, (Super Nova), why you tryin' to mess me this time o' night. Made my snuggle socks curl up    It's not funny, but I can't believe he said that, then again, I can believe it.  At least we know why his prayers were confused.  He never realized which god he was hearing from.  

_______________________-

As for those who voted for him..... I'm one of them   Twice. 

Come and get me..... :reddancer:  

It put President Obama in the White House.    Black Man up.


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## HeChangedMyName (Dec 9, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> I love this thread...All ready....
> 
> Bright Star, (Super Nova), why you tryin' to mess me this time o' night. Made my snuggle socks curl up    It's not funny, but I can't believe he said that, then again, I can believe it.  At least we know why his prayers were confused.  He never realized which god he was hearing from.
> 
> ...



lol 

Yeah, when he said he prays to the same God I was like  this is gonna be a gooooooddd one.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2008)

MizzBrown said:


> And yet folks voted for this man....twice. SMH.


 
I know it seems unbelievable that someone would vote for him; but we can't blame the voters.   For why do people vote in the first place? They vote their conscience and what a candidate 'seems' to represent for them.

I have no shame for why I voted Republican since President Reagan. 

Let's put the blame where it truly belongs, which includes the Dems and Repubs, who helped build the staircase which led to Bush.  Bill Clinton 'shamed' this country, he commited adultery IN the White House and then lied about it for all of the world to see.   People didn't forget that.  And you (general 'you') don't reward adulters.  (Look at John Edwards, where is his reward?).  

With any election, all of the parties and their culprits have a major part in the outcome.  They either 'kill' their success or keep it alive; not the voters.   In this government, they are the ones who created and designed the system and how to work it, no matter how they go about it.   Don't blame the voters.  They in the 'system' are the ones who succeed or fail in swaying the voters in whatever direction the voters have decided upon.   

Yes, I'm proudly one of the ones who voted for him; and I'm not going to bow my head in shame or run from it.   Right before our eyes, we saw the law of '_reaping what you sow'_ in action.  It was Clinton's mess which put Bush in the White House, and it was Bush's mess that put President Obama in the "House" which is finally Black owned and operated, and I supported him, President Obama all the way.   

I knew that he was going to win; I spoke it out long before the primaries were over, and I began calling him, President Obama each time I spoke about him by word or text, or post.   So far, he is the only democrat with some character.... he's Black.   

As disappointed as you may feel about Bush, always remember, our hope is in God, not man.  The minute we take our eyes from God, that's when all hell comes in.  Blaming voters is denial of looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our Faith .... in Him. 

Instead of blaming the voters, blame the reasons and those who caused it, for what leads a voter to their choices.   We have to respect that no matter how much we may disagree.   

We have no idea how President Obama will do or not do.  But if he messes up, I'll still support him.  Because for the first time in my life, I voted for someone who Truly was my choice and not a concession as Bush was.

So stop 'smacking your pretty head' over this.  You're only pushing your hard earned hair growth back in.    It's not worth it.   

Love and hugs to you...    I mean it.


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## chellero (Dec 10, 2008)

Who cares what Bush believed about the Bible?  He obviously wasn't following it, literally or figuratively and anyone who voted for him (especially those who voted for him the second time) is very much responsible for the state that our country is in now, not to mention the deaths of American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.  Someone claiming to be a Christian does not mean that they will be a good president.  Voting based on who committed adultery, or who doesn't like gay marriage or who lies and claims that they will end abortion is crazy when there are people's lives at stake.  People were so busy trying to control other people's lives and and trying to deny them the free will that God gave all of us that they voted the country into ruin.  And now people are upset about what Bush thinks about the Bible?  Seriously?


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## Shimmie (Dec 10, 2008)

chellero said:


> Who cares what Bush believed about the Bible? He obviously wasn't following it, literally or figuratively and anyone who voted for him (especially those who voted for him the second time) is very much responsible for the state that our country is in now, not to mention the deaths of American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis. Someone claiming to be a Christian does not mean that they will be a good president.
> 
> Voting based on who committed adultery, or who doesn't like gay marriage or who lies and claims that they will end abortion is crazy when there are people's lives at stake.
> 
> ...


No matter who voted for whom, would not have stopped the war from occurring.   The middle eastern terriorists had their plans laid out long before Bush took office.   Unfortunately, Clinton was too busy 'screwing' around to take care of it.   When the USS Cole (Navy Vessel) was attacked, during Clinton's term, action should have taken place then.   Clinton 'missed' it.  His adultery caused more danger and ill to this country than people care to admit to.    It DOES matter. 

I have family in the Military and I scringe each time they are called out to sea and for other tours.   We never know what to expect.   Yet is killing innocent babies right as well, by way of abortion.   Is supporting gay marriage, right before God.    As a Chrisitian, I have EVERY right to vote my conscious and I don't care who likes it or not.  

For who is he that can harm me, when I chose to seek for righteousness?   (I Peter 3).    

People are just as silly as they can be when it comes politics, especially when they don't get their candidate.   My question to those who are upset about Bush's winning and his voters.   What did 'they' do to help their Democratic party to win?   Obviously not enough.    

It' doesn't matter why people voted for Bush; what does matter is why not enough was done by those who complain and whine about it, to get their Dem party in.   How much money did 'you' (in general 'you'), contribute to your party's winning?   How much campaigning did you do?  How many calls did you make.    Didn't 'you' (in general 'you') know that Bush was going to mess up?   Wasn't it important for 'you' (in general 'you'), enough to do all and more to see to it that he did not get back into office.  

Well obviously not, by the outcome.   Instead of blaiming his voters, take accountablility for 'your' (in general 'your') lack of support of Dem Candidate.   

You can blame Bush all you want, but he was elected because the Dems ddin't have it together, if they had, they would have easily been on top of every angle and move the Republicans made and they would have kicked butt in the elections.   They would have won.   

It's sad to see all of the whining from the Dems who didn't win.  It's an unending 'cry baby' and blame game.   Grow up!   Face up to the fact that had 'your' (Democratic) candidate had their act together and if the Dem supporters were on top of the cannon, they would have succeeded.   Instead they bombed.    Stop playing the Victim.   Don't get mad at the voters for Bush, get mad because the Dems had a wimp for a candidate and no back bone (or non suffcient) support from their supporters/ voters.   

If the war really bothers you (in general 'you'), get out there and support our Military and their families.   My daughter and I sure do.  In Florida, we don't mess around.   We're out there, hand and foot, giving of ourselves and our time and money.     

Each time I see people whine about Bush, it's on them.  They didn't do enough to stop it from occurring.  Anyone can stop a thief, if they put their mind to it.      

In love.........

Shimmie


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## Highly Favored8 (Dec 10, 2008)

I always thought this is true!


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## Crackers Phinn (Dec 10, 2008)

chellero said:


> People were so busy trying to control other people's lives and and trying to deny them the free will that God gave all of us that they voted the country into ruin.





And here's the scary part.  

They'll do it again. 

I belong to plenty of political boards and Bush voters still refuse to accept that they and their faith or delusions of grandeur (think Joe the Plumber) got pimped for votes.  So instead of re-evaluating what's really hood about this man and his party exploiting them, the events of the last 8 years gets blown off as 'it was inevitable'.

And because the words "I WAS WRONG" are just too bitter a pill to swallow, someone else will come along and be able to do the same thing all over again.  And folks won't learn then either.


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## chellero (Dec 10, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> No matter who voted for whom, would not have stopped the war from occurring.   The middle eastern terriorists had their plans laid out long before Bush took office.   Unfortunately, Clinton was too busy 'screwing' around to take care of it.   When the USS Cole (Navy Vessel) was attacked, during Clinton's term, action should have taken place then.   Clinton 'missed' it.  His adultery caused more danger and ill to this country than people care to admit to.    It DOES matter.
> 
> I have family in the Military and I scringe each time they are called out to sea and for other tours.   We never know what to expect.   Yet is killing innocent babies right as well, by way of abortion.   Is supporting gay marriage, right before God.    As a Chrisitian, I have EVERY right to vote my conscious and I don't care who likes it or not.
> 
> ...


The problem with "voting your conscience" is that you are letting people pimp your religion and are too blind to realize it.  Republicans have been beating the gay marriage, abortion, drum for decades.  Gay people are still being gay and pregnant women are still having abortions. These things won't be done away with because then what would they have to trick people into voting for them.  They have lied and deceived and manipulated your faith for evil purposes.  If you want to call someone pointing that out "whinning" then have at it.  But that doesn't change the fact that you and many others were fooled and that people died because it. People are still dying and the country is in ruin.  You can call it the blame game, but the blame is on Bush's shoulders as well as the shoulders of those who supported him. Calling people names doesn't change the fact that Bush supporters let themselves and their faith be used for evil and wrongdoing.   TWICE!


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## chellero (Dec 10, 2008)

JCoily said:


> And here's the scary part.
> 
> They'll do it again.
> 
> ...


I know, is it really that hard to say I was wrong.  Everyone is wrong sometimes, it's just the ones who can't admit their mistakes who are dangerous.  I don't know why some Christians are so easily manipulated that they fall for anyone who adds a "thank you, Jesus" to the end of their sentence.   But then asking a question about the Bible is a sign of evil spirits around here, so maybe questioning a political leader is too.


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## Crackers Phinn (Dec 10, 2008)

chellero said:


> The problem with "voting your conscience" is that you are letting people pimp your religion and are too blind to realize it.  Republicans have been beating the gay marriage, abortion, drum for decades.  Gay people are still being gay and pregnant women are still having abortions. These things won't be done away with because then what would they have to trick people into voting for them.  They have lied and deceived and manipulated your faith for evil purposes.  If you want to call someone pointing that out "whinning" then have at it.  But that doesn't change the fact that you and many others were fooled and that people died because it. People are still dying and the country is in ruin.  You can call it the blame game, but the blame is on Bush's shoulders as well as the shoulders of those who supported him. Calling people names doesn't change the fact that Bush supporters let themselves and their faith be used for evil and wrongdoing.   *TWICE!*




Bolded for emphasis

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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## Shimmie (Dec 10, 2008)

chellero said:


> The problem with "voting your conscience" is that you are letting people pimp your religion and are too blind to realize it. Republicans have been beating the gay marriage, abortion, drum for decades. Gay people are still being gay and pregnant women are still having abortions. These things won't be done away with because then what would they have to trick people into voting for them. They have lied and deceived and manipulated your faith for evil purposes. If you want to call someone pointing that out "whinning" then have at it. But that doesn't change the fact that you and many others were fooled and that people died because it. People are still dying and the country is in ruin. You can call it the blame game, but the blame is on Bush's shoulders as well as the shoulders of those who supported him. Calling people names doesn't change the fact that Bush supporters let themselves and their faith be used for evil and wrongdoing. TWICE!


 
Oh please, you say I was punked, you were punked then whipped TWICE.  

AND YOU LET IT HAPPEN..... TWICE.   You knew what the man was the first time and you didn't do a thing to stop him from winning TWICE....  

Voting for Bush TWICE never stopped my growth in Jesus Christ, nor the annointing that He has placed upon me.   If anything I've grown all the more ,  I'm living the fruit of it, as are far more Christians than you give credit to.  Why?  Because I did what was lead to do and it was my right to do so and not yours nor anyone else's to stop me.  

I'm not sorry for voting that way I felt lead to vote.   I'm not the one whining, 'you' are.  And blaming 'one' man for the condition of this country is not only blind but you're in full denial.

This country's SIN has placed it where it is today.  NOT ONE Man.  Get real.  God makes it quite plain that if we will humble ourselves, and turn away from our wicked ways, that God will hear from Heaven and Heal our Land.  

Homosexuality, Abortion, Late Term abortions (partial birth which Bush DID veto), taking prayer out of schools, celebrating gays instead, taking God out of the court and justice system,  and the corruption of people serving other gods, have lead this country right where it is.   Get Real!   

As a Christian you should be well aware of what kills a 'land', and it is NOT ONE Man.  It's the evil of *all* men and what they have set their minds to do in rebellion of God's word.   Bush is not the only who has not yielded to God.  You are among them when you support those who support homosexuality.  

I'd love to see you in Heaven blaming Bush for your failures.  Now that's punked.  Get real  

Blaming those who voted for him, only shows your inability to take responsibility to get your choice of candidate in there.  YOU failed this country.  TWICE.  

YOU did not do all that was necessary to keep Bush out of the White House.   All folks can do is whine, and cry about what he did.  Well, what Did YOU do?    Nothing!  Nothing TWICE!   TWICE you chose to walk around 'asleep' ignoring the signs and not doing anything TWICE to keep him out of the White House. 

95% of the folks complaining about Bush didn't support, campaign, or Vote, period!  Yet they are whining.......TWICE.   

This country's economy is not on him either.  Who told folks to over extend their credit?  Who put a gun to their heads to apply for home loans that they could not afford?   Who made folks spend their income and not save and instead, kept rolling in the debt just to have their hair and nails did; have cars they can't afford; eating in clubs and resturants that do not re-circulate the profits back into their community?   There were always more sensible and self profiting solutions/options.   

Who supported all of these corporations with their income to make them as big as they are?  Keep pointing the blame at others, ane you will never be free.   

Before you point the blame, who did you seek out to and support to take over your cause?  No one!   And don't say you sought out President Obama, because 90% of everyone didn't believe in him when he started and still doubted him up to the very day he was elected.  

As for Bush, I can't believe 'TWICE' 'you' let it happen.  TWICE   After the first time, one would think that you' would have worked harder to get someone more capable to kick his butt in the elections.   Then you would not be whining, about who voted for him.   

Just big babies, who can only whine and nothing else.  Blaming voters who didn't vote like you.   Please.  My babies know better.  If something didn't work the way they wanted it to, whining and pointing and blaming someone else isn't going to fix it.   Face up to your own Failures in supporting your party.   TWICE.   You let it happen  TWICE....  

Keep using the war, the economy, as your whine base.  It's not going to hold you much longer.  You contributed to the state of this country as much as anyone else.  

People are a trip.  TWICE, no backbone, no viable candidate, no answers, just whining.  

And yes I'm laughing, because if someone whipped me once, you better believe I'm coming out with all I've got to keep it from happening again.  Only whiners get whipped TWICE!  And then still whine about it.  

Give it up.... stop whining  Come up with something better to do.  

Disclaimer:  I'm speaking "you" in General ....     TWICE!


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## Belle Du Jour (Dec 10, 2008)

Republican does not = Christian, saved, sanctified, etc.
Democrat does not = unsaved, Heathen, blasphemer, etc.

A lot of people are being taken in by the wrong issues and it's sad.  Because they think their choice is so superior.  But when it comes down to it, Republicans murder, cheat, and steal too.  But because they're anti-abortion and anti-homosexuality, their other sins can be overlooked.

SMH


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## Shimmie (Dec 10, 2008)

classimami713 said:


> Republican does not = Christian, saved, sanctified, etc.
> Democrat does not = unsaved, Heathen, blasphemer, etc.
> 
> A lot of people are being taken in by the wrong issues and it's sad. Because they think their choice is so superior. But when it comes down to it, Republicans murder, cheat, and steal too. But because they're anti-abortion and anti-homosexuality, their other sins can be overlooked.
> ...


Smack your head a little harder... 

Democrat does not equal  Christian, Saved, Sanctified, etc.

Republican does not equal unsaved, heathen, blasphemer, etc. 

They ALL cheat, steal, lie, murder, corruption is on all sides.

No one is overlooking the other sins.  Yet it appears that 'folks' have chosen the Democrats as their god.   Now THAT's where the shame is.

Get Real.... who did the Dems have to have done it better?  Why didn't the Dems work harder to get there?   Too much whining going on.


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## Belle Du Jour (Dec 10, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Smack your head a little harder...
> 
> Democrat does not equal  Christian, Saved, Sanctified, etc.
> 
> ...



Shimmie, what are you talking about?  Can you identify where the bold part is posted on this thread?  

With all due respect, the only person on this thread "whining" and desperate to have the last word seems to be you.  People should be able to disagree without being called "whiny."


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## Shimmie (Dec 10, 2008)

classimami713 said:


> Shimmie, what are you talking about? Can you identify where the bold part is posted on this thread?
> 
> With all due respect, the only person on this thread "whining" and desperate to have the last word seems to be you. People should be able to disagree without being called "whiny."


The bolded, it speaks for its self each time someone whines about Bush and those who voted for him; as if voting democratic is god.  The truth being, *none* of them are. 

And you are absolutely right, people should be able to disagree respectfully.  The tone of this forum needs to respect those who vote as they choose, instead of whining about it as you and others have done.


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## Belle Du Jour (Dec 11, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> The bolded, it speaks for its self each time someone whines about Bush and those who voted for him; as if voting democratic is god.  The truth being, *none* of them are.
> 
> And you are absolutely right, people should be able to disagree respectfully.  *The tone of this forum needs to respect those who vote as they choose,* instead of whining about it as *you* and others have done.



Actually, you should go back and read my posts.  I don't think I mentioned Bush and I don't think you can show me where I did either.  And again, respectfully, the only person on this thread "acting out" is you Shimmie.   And with that, I'm out of this thread.  So, Shimmie, you can have the last word if you want.  But I won't be reading it.


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## chellero (Dec 11, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Oh please, you say I was punked, you were punked then whipped TWICE.
> 
> AND YOU LET IT HAPPEN..... TWICE.   You knew what the man was the first time and you didn't do a thing to stop him from winning TWICE....
> 
> ...



You know and good and well that your "you" is not meant generally.  Let's not start by lying in the Christian forum.   Shimmie do you still think that voting for Bush was the right thing to do?  Because it seems to me that you made a poor choice in President and then instead of admitting it you are complaining and name calling because people pointed it out.  That's not mature or Christ-like.  Say it with me now, Shimmie, "I was wrong."  Say it loud and proud, because you were wrong about Bush.  You weren't alone, but you (not a general you.  YOU) were certainly part of the problem.  The fact that you can't admit this is quite scary.


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## Crackers Phinn (Dec 11, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rovQj9vNq8I

I'm not fluent in idiot, but I'd swear he just said shame on folks who get fooled the same way *TWICE*.


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## chellero (Dec 11, 2008)

JCoily said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rovQj9vNq8I
> 
> I'm not fluent in idiot, but I'd swear he just said shame on folks who get fooled the same way *TWICE*.



Well that about sums up this whole thread.


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## Irresistible (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm just really REALLY surprised at the name calling in this thread!

Shimmie this isnt like you 

Dont defend something to the point of offending others, I know your heart is different than this! 

Bush did hurt us........ALOT! 

Thats just the truth


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## Irresistible (Dec 11, 2008)

classimami713 said:


> Republican does not = Christian, saved, sanctified, etc.
> Democrat does not = unsaved, Heathen, blasphemer, etc.
> 
> A lot of people are being taken in by the wrong issues and it's sad.  Because they think their choice is so superior.  But when it comes down to it, Republicans murder, cheat, and steal too.  But because they're anti-abortion and anti-homosexuality, their other sins can be overlooked.
> ...



Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now this is the TRUTH!


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## Irresistible (Dec 11, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Smack your head a little harder...
> 
> Democrat does not equal  Christian, Saved, Sanctified, etc.
> 
> ...



Oh my [email protected] the bolded! Thats a huge statement to make about others and only God can judge if that has taken place in the heart of another

I think we all just wanted a better outcome , because truly there has been suffering since he was voted in office!

any Christian that loves God and knows God will not make any man their God! 

I love you Shimmie! I know your heart! its beautiful-despite all this upset and harsh words


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## msa (Dec 11, 2008)

chellero said:


> I know, is it really that hard to say I was wrong.  Everyone is wrong sometimes, it's just the ones who can't admit their mistakes who are dangerous.  *I don't know why some Christians are so easily manipulated that they fall for anyone who adds a "thank you, Jesus" to the end of their sentence.*   But then asking a question about the Bible is a sign of evil spirits around here, so maybe questioning a political leader is too.



Because those same Christians are the ones who haven't even read the bible themselves and know nothing about their salvation, let alone how they should conduct themselves in their daily lives. If they did, they wouldn't have been able to vote for Bush (who obviously hasn't picked up a bible in a long time) in good conscience.


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## Blossssom (Dec 11, 2008)

Wrong forum


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## chellero (Dec 11, 2008)

Blossssom said:


> Wrong forum




.   Now stop being the forum police.


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## Blossssom (Dec 11, 2008)

chellero said:


> .   Now stop being the forum police.



I have been INSPIRED!  LOL!

Well, not really!   

Off to police another Forum before I get "arrested" for being in here!  LOL!


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## HeChangedMyName (Dec 11, 2008)

Wow,  I been away for a couple of days, but I didn't think this thread would take a turn like this.  Regardless of who voted for Bush or who didn't vote for him.  None of us can judge one another for our choices, however, we can see that he, Bush, is clearly confused and unclear of who exactly is the God that he serves.  Let's stick to trying to decipher the fact that he calls himself a Christian, yet claims to worship the same god as people of other religions.  That is the point here.  We were led through 8 long hard years of leadership by a man who is just. . . erplexed .  Whatever claims of Christianity he made in the past seem to have been for some reason, but maybe not for the sake of being truthful.


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## Shimmie (Dec 13, 2008)

Irresistible said:


> I'm just really REALLY surprised at the name calling in this thread!
> 
> Shimmie this isnt like you
> 
> ...


My apology is to Super Nova and to you, but I will not apologize for speaking the truth.   Those who blame the citizens wo voted for Bush need to get it in check.  If they are offended by what I said so be it. But it goes both ways.  How is it that 'they' are allowed to speak their offensive remarks and not get 'called on it'?  Have they not offended 'us' who have the right to vote as we chose?

I don't turn the 'other cheek'.  I call it as I see it.  Bush's opposers 'allowed' him to win... Twice!   They did not do what was necessary to strengthen their party which was harmed by themselves and put up a viable opponent or strategy to keep Bush out of the office the first nor second time.   

As Christians, we still have to be mindful of what God's word says. This country did not come to ruin because of 'one' man.  It was collective by all, no matter what the party affilitation.  

Sin is what 'kills' a country/nation.  And this IS a nation which has turned it's heart totally from God.   One man didn't do it.  And the sooner people acknowledge that, the sooner God can come in and heal the damage which has been done by all.   

Everything that God prophesied that would bring this nation to ruin, is exactly what is occurring.  And yet, this nation has hardened it's hearts and will not yield to the God of all creation.  Instead, they point the finger in blame away from themselves and choose not to repent from the real cause of this disaster.

This 'war' is a part of God's prophesy, "There will will wars and rumors of wars."  The book of Daniel goes into it further.

This government took it's shape long before Bush entered into office. And sadly, President Obama will be adding to it and of his own free will.  God is going to move on behalf of His people who are following 'Him', but there will still be recompence for the offenses which will still be 'allowed' to remain. 

People need to realize something.  If it weren't for Bush, President Obama would not be in office.   Read the signs.   What did President Obama beat out the Clintons in spite of all of the racism?  Long before the primaries, The Clinton's did indeed put a 'stain' and black hole in the Democratic party, that none of their candidates could bypass.  Gore and Kerry were beaten long before they ran, because of Bill Clinton.   Sexual Sin DOES have a penality in leadership.  It's scriptual.  Christians who know both their Bible and have a relationship with God 'know' this. 
And it still comes back to the fact that Bush won TWICE, not only because of his voters, but because his non supporters didn't do what was needed to strengthen their party.  Instead they dimissed Bill's sin as everyday life.  Even sports players know that sex can weaken the knees, sap their strength before a game.  The strength of the Democratic party was sapped.

Again I apologize to you, Super Nova and to you Irresistable.   I didn't start the insults; I simply didn't back down from them.


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## divya (Dec 14, 2008)

This is no surprise. These ideas are evident in Bush's actions. 

However, it is God who ultimately allows men or women to come to power and lose power. For that reason, I disagree with you Shimmie when you state that Bush opposers _allowed_ anything. Secondly, the statement regarding "their party" is also inaccurate. Bush opposers do not belong only to one party. Nor does voting for a particular candidate within an election automatically make one supporter of a particular party. Further, there are people who do not believe in party affiliation at all who opposed Bush.  It also should not be forgotten that there was a significant amount of voter fraud within both Bush elections that are a disgrace to the American system. Neither can one blame solely one group of people for the backwards election system that we have today, based on the monopoly held by two parties. It is unfortunate that sometimes people become to entrapped in party affiliations that they fail to see the bigger picture here.  

I agree that sin ruins. However, one cannot blame anyone else for the personal choices of other individuals to support a man who clearly disregards human life among other things. Those who supported him are responsible for their choice in God's eyes. None of them can stand before God and point to an opposer and say that he should have done more to keep him out. Supporters chose to rise, go to the polls, and select Bush as president. Therefore, they "elected" him. Now, this is not to say that supporters are then responsible for every act the Bush committed while in office. Bush made his own personal choices, that may have been contrary even to those who supported him. This happens with virtually all candidates. However, some things were very clear, particularly the second time around.


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## Shimmie (Dec 14, 2008)

divya said:


> This is no surprise. These ideas are evident in Bush's actions.
> 
> *However, it is God who ultimately allows men or women to come to power and lose power.* For that reason, I disagree with you Shimmie when you state that Bush opposers _allowed_ anything. Secondly, the statement regarding "their party" is also inaccurate. Bush opposers do not belong only to one party. Nor does voting for a particular candidate within an election automatically make one supporter of a particular party. Further, there are people who do not believe in party affiliation at all who opposed Bush. It also should not be forgotten that there was a significant amount of voter fraud within both Bush elections that are a disgrace to the American system. Neither can one blame solely one group of people for the backwards election system that we have today, based on the monopoly held by two parties. It is unfortunate that sometimes people become to entrapped in party affiliations that they fail to see the bigger picture here.
> 
> I agree that sin ruins. However, one cannot blame anyone else for the personal choices of other individuals to support a man who clearly disregards human life among other things. Those who supported him are responsible for their choice in God's eyes. None of them can stand before God and point to an opposer and say that he should have done more to keep him out. Supporters chose to rise, go to the polls, and select Bush as president. Therefore, they "elected" him. Now, this is not to say that supporters are then responsible for every act the Bush committed while in office. Bush made his own personal choices, that may have been contrary even to those who supported him. This happens with virtually all candidates. However, some things were very clear, particularly the second time around.


I agree with the bolded.  

However it still remains true that the majority of the folks who Point/Blame/Complain were inactive to stop this man from being elected; ESPECIALLY the 2nd time after experiencing his first term.  Instead, they did nothing but complain about it.   There are things that can be done to win an election.  

I will not defend Bush, I never did; but when will 'complainers' realize that scripturally all that has occurred is not because of one man, but it is the direct result of the sin in this country. This country is under judgment no matter who is in office.  As much as I don't like it, even worse is going to occur under President Obama.  And not because of Bush, but because of the sins of this country who has turned away from God and is in complete denial of it.  

We still have folks (even those who call themselves Christians) who support that which offends God and their hearts will not change.  Blaming one man for it is foolishness.   If you read the word of God, Bush did not start this war.  We left ourselves open to it.  We left our gates wide open for the enemy to come in and 'attack' us, which in turn placed us into war.  All that we see before us is the manisfestation of God's judgment coming upon this country and those who refuse to see it.

I'm not looking for 'agreement'; it doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees.  The Truth is still what it is and it's in full operation and it's not stopping because of those who disagree with it.

This is not even an argument, but it should be a wake-up call to those who continue to blame Bush for the ills of this country.   As long as they are blaming him, the real cause will never be addressed, but be allowed to continue and bringing this country even further into despair.  And the 'people' allowed it.   The irony here is that the majority (not all) of the complainers are the ones who also support the sins which is the downfall of this country.  

What we see happening in this country was Destined, no matter who was in office the past 8 years.  It was only a matter of time, before it manifestied.  The seeds were planted and watered long before he took office; and this is the harvest.


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## Crackers Phinn (Dec 14, 2008)

JCoily said:


> So instead of re-evaluating what's really hood about this man and his party exploiting them, the events of the last 8 years gets blown off as 'it was inevitable'.





co-signing with myself!

He appreciated those voters THIS much:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zuxcn8LX7OY


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## divya (Dec 14, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> I agree with the bolded.
> 
> *However it still remains true that the majority of the folks who Point/Blame/Complain were inactive to stop this man from being elected; ESPECIALLY the 2nd time after experiencing his first term.  Instead, they did nothing but complain about it.*   There are things that can be done to win an election.
> 
> ...



That is incorrect. These people voted. That is what is required of people who desire to place a particular individual in office. People who are full fledged citizens of this country have every right make their voices heard when they are unsatisfied with the policies of their President. One of those ways is voting and there are others as well. They are not responsible for the voting decisions that other individuals made for the past elections. People must stop playing the blame game and own up to their own personal decisions. God Himself deals with us individually.

Secondly, it is incorrect to assume that people who did not vote for Bush are unaware of what the scriptures state regarding plight of a nation because of sin. Regardless, that reality that does not absolve any individual from the decisions made that which was not a sound decision. It is important that people realize that individual is responsible for every decision made. Not because other people make uninformed or incorrect decisions does that make the one's personal decision less relevant. We do not know exactly what would have happened if Bush did not get into office. What we do know is that God allowed him to ascend to that office. It seems as though his actions have only brought us much closer to the second coming. While he committed many ills, I am grateful that the coming is nearer.


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