# Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 3, 2012)

*Pastor Puts Stripper Pole, Bedroom Props In The Pulpit For ‘Battle of the Sexes’ Sermons*

Monday Apr 2, 2012 – by Thembi Ford 






Setting up a bed with a stripper pole, stilettos, and a pile of dollar bills on one side and a teddy bear, some candles, and a bottle of wine on the other is certainly one way to draw folks’ attention. But when these props are part of a church sermon series called “Battle of the Sexes,” you’re bound to also draw some raised eyebrows.

Pastor Mike Scruggs of the Light of Word Ministries in White Oak, Ohio is trying to bring what usually goes on behind closed doors to the pulpit for some education and frank talk. He thinks that “right now we’re having single people having too much sex and married people not having enough sex,” and wants men and women to recognize their differences to benefit both genders in the bedroom. He draws his inspiration from the book _Sexperiment: 7 Days to Lasting Intimacy with Your Spouse_ by Texas-based Pastor Ed Young, but his first sermon, which was intended for singles, drew a packed house.

Scruggs told his local news affiliate [video]: “We push the envelope, that’s true. Don’t take it out of context. Some people say, ‘He’s going to hell. He’s wrong.’ We want to talk about it. We don’t want them to guess at it, assume it’s wrong. It’s right. We want to talk about it.” Even his own mother approves of the message.

Those who believe that the church shouldn’t be encouraging single people to focus on sex at all will probably disagree with Scruggs’ approach, as will others who think that sexuality has no place in church, and more still who’ll consider placing a stripper pole by the pulpit just a gimmick to pack the pews.

But what I find unnerving is the stereotypical gender construction behind it all that sets women up as romance-craving, sexually traditional, teddy bear squeezers because we “like being wined and dined and cherished,” and men as sports and video game-driven beings bent on drooling over strippers and high heels. We all know that sexual desire is never that cut-and-dry, and it’s disturbing that the message once again becomes “throwing bills on strippers…yes, that is what men like…this is normal and healthy…hooray for traditional gender roles!” Pastor Scruggs sounds a bit like another relationship expert in disguise.
*What do you think?*


http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012...n-the-pulpit-for-battle-of-the-sexes-sermons/


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## pookaloo83 (Apr 3, 2012)

He's doing too much.

Sent from my iPhone 4s


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## SummerSolstice (Apr 3, 2012)

I understand using the photo in a private bible study for married members of the church... but if this was a sermon I am SIDE EYING HIM!!!!! Its like he's advertising what his own bedroom is like... I think that should stay private because it looks like he's showin these young girls what he's got waitin for them if they choose to indulge


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## auparavant (Apr 3, 2012)

I dunno, my church is set up differently and the sanctuary is not given to such things like non-holy day props and whatnot...but I agree that sex should be talked about.  We act like we don't do it.  We barely tell our kids about it and if they get into trouble, we're angry about it.  All human beings are sexual.  It's how we get here in the first place.  Talking openly about the marital union is right (granted, they do it age-appropriately...as in married talk for marrieds...and abstinence for singles and teens...and biology for kiddos).  G-d wants us to be whole.


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## LucieLoo12 (Apr 3, 2012)




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## auparavant (Apr 3, 2012)

^^^LOL.  Maybe he's trying to break through the madonna-whore complex and get men to stop cheating on their wives...and to catapult christian women out of frigidity?


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## LoveisYou (Apr 3, 2012)

I think sex should be discussed in single sex small roup settings. There are ppl struggling with sexual immorality of all sorts this can do more harm than good in a regular church message.


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## aribell (Apr 3, 2012)

There was a huge thread about this topic a couple of years back.

I think the question is why people have to look to what even the world sees as shady to "spice" things up.


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## LucieLoo12 (Apr 3, 2012)

How the dollar bills and the basketball spice up the sex life? 

This is just seems um a little "extra", trying to hard.

I do believe that churches should teach about sex and marriage, but this little "scene"is just tacky...


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 3, 2012)

someone commented that his church was packed on Friday, but packed to hear and see what?

Packed to hear about the love of God, packed to hear about how the lost can be saved...or was the church packed for peoples flesh to appeased.

I don't know what his agenda is, but I think too many times we use wordly examples draw a crowd when God says he will do the drawing...


Don't get me wrong I agree that the church needs to know about sex, but why the shock factor, why so over the top, why so worldly ...


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 3, 2012)

a few months ago it was another well known pastor spending 24 hours in bed (thankfully with his wife) on the church roof ...


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## SummerSolstice (Apr 3, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> a few months ago it was another well known pastor spending 24 hours in bed (thankfully with his wife) on the church roof ...



Good for them but why do we need to know that 

Side note... i am totally looking forward to staying in bed for 24 hours with my husband in the future... if we get there anyways, did yall see that post about them making trackable jewelry... Jesus is like around the corner yall


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## PinkPebbles (Apr 3, 2012)

Married couples really need their *pastor* to tell or teach them about sex...really


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 3, 2012)

^^it was a part of some sexperiment were he enoucraged his members to have more sex


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## LucieLoo12 (Apr 3, 2012)

What were they doing???? Just laying in the bed???





Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> a few months ago it was another well known pastor spending 24 hours in bed (thankfully with his wife) on the church roof ...


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 3, 2012)

@Alicialynn86


it was also to promote his book with live streaming and skype you could call in and ask questions they were suppose to be discussing sex...


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## loolalooh (Apr 3, 2012)

Hmm ...


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## BlkOnyx488 (Apr 3, 2012)

I would have to hear the message before I can pass judgement. People on the outside looking into a church just will jump on one part of the Pastor's message and not the entire message. This Pastor may be able to tie this all together and wrap it up nicely. 
My Question and I think it's a very important one

Excuse me Pastor but umm is the stripper pole gon' b in the church raffle this year?


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## BlkOnyx488 (Apr 3, 2012)

PinkPebbles said:


> Married couples really need their *pastor* to tell or teach them about sex...really


 
There are a lot of sexless Marriages in the Body Christ, sometimes people need to be reminded psst psst you married it's ok to do it, ALOT


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## CoilyFields (Apr 3, 2012)

I have no problem with it whatsoever.

Illicit Sex is one of the most prolific sins and leads to some of the most devestating consequences in our society. Among married and single folks. We dont have enough positive talks about it...especially within the Church. The world has shaped most of our thoughts, ideas, and beliefs about sex...the Church needs to have a voice.

When I got married tons of older ladies told me about "dropping it like its hot" and "being naked under trench coats" lol. It was surprising but important. Because the marriage bed is undefiled so a skripper pole is just fine if thats what the couple wants.

Concerning the way this Pastor did it: This set up was appropriate for a friday with a select group in mind. Some sanctuaries are not set up for this but a lot of newer built churches have stages where something like this would not look completely out of place. As long as there was nothing vulgar said or explicit taught (and no children present for this adult-geared converstaion) I think its fine. 

The gospel is what saves and should always be the central teaching of a Church. But we have to LIVE on earth after we get saved and classes/conferences etc. on _how _to do that are completely in order.

Though something like this is more "risque" I would have had to be there to hear what was said to label it inappropriate as a whole.

Sidenote: The author talked about the Pastor being biased in gender roles but that is not really true based on the word of God. There is a reason why the Bible said for husbands to LOVE their wives and for wives to RESPECT their husbands. We generally desire different things and while everyone may not fit perfectly into those roles the majority of us do. We do want to be romanced and cherished etc. and men do like to be visually stimulated etc.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 3, 2012)

nicola.kirwan said:


> There was a huge thread about this topic a couple of years back.
> 
> *I think the question is why people have to look to what even the world sees as shady to "spice" things up*.


 

I would view this differently. I would say that the spicey things originated in the marriage bed but escaped to become an indulgence between unmarried people. It should all be brought back to the marriage bed! Sexual creativity and indulgences were meant for marriage.

I mean think about it...
Sex itself was created and undulged in by married couples first...then prostitution/adultery/fornication stole it! lol

Stripping...come one now...Im SURE wives were stripping and dancing for their husbands long before bordellos and strip clubs came into existance.

The world took what was sacred and made it dirty...took what was legitimate and bastardized it...took what was clean and perverted it. Not the actual acts of sex and "spice" etc. but by making it between unmarried folk (in private or public settings). So nothing wrong with reclaiming what was once ours (for those who are married).


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Apr 3, 2012)

^^question for you Coily

so seriously, do you consider stripping to be sacred? or are you just generalizing...


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## CoilyFields (Apr 3, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
			
		

> ^^question for you Coily
> 
> so seriously, do you consider stripping to be sacred? or are you just generalizing...



Generalizing. But stripping for your husband (or vice versa)is good right along with sex. The marriage bed is undefiled so anything goes that's not a sin and is agreeable to both. (Basically anything but beastiality and other people lol)


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## auparavant (Apr 3, 2012)

In the words of the Greek mother in Big Fat Greek Wedding,  "be a lamb in the kitchen but a tiger in the bedroom!"  And the daughter replied, "Ew."  LOLOL.

Since Americans are not telling their daughters and sons how to pleasure their spouses in a pragmatic way, they are itching to learn it somehow.  Christian-based books on marriage and sex have diagrams on positions, talk about fluids and the messiness of sex (for virgins), lubes, oral sex...they talk about the sex act.


Stripping:  

It's a visual for men who are very visual.  They recommend the couple have sex with the lights on and outside the sheets...and explore every inch of each other's bodies.  When you have sex, Jesus is right there looking atcha!    He created it.


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## Iluvsmuhgrass (Apr 3, 2012)

Maybe people aren't having good sex because they think Jesus is watching and they're not exhibitionists?  Um.... it was even funnier after I typed it.


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## LucieLoo12 (Apr 4, 2012)

I agree that pastor should teach about sex, but getting detailed about stripper poles and stiletto(sp) heels and such in the bedroom seems he may be crossing a line there..

A married couple can have a great sex life without any poles and dollar bills being involved.I dont know the details of the sermon but I hope he isn't making it seems as if these means will guarantee  intimacy in a couples marriage. Sometimes a lack of intimacy can stem from other areas that are not being met in a marriage. But it seems as if he may just be bringing out the carnal side of it. But then again...I haven't heard the message...but seeing the stiletto heels and stripper pole, I can only imagine...


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## Shimmie (Apr 4, 2012)

I don't like it ... 

Why make smut out of what God designed to be beautiful.  

Now is this the same man who made all of the married couples kiss in front of the congregation a while back?  

Obviously, this man is getting his jollies off of this.  Why on earth is he so absorbed in this mess.  He's telling on himself, making his fastasies obvious and trying to use the Church to validate his cheap fantasies.

I'm not saying that a wife should not 'indulge' in pleasing and teasing her husband, however, things like this do not belong on a Church altar.   Who's focusing on worship and getting folks saved during these services.   All he's doing is causing unintentional 'arousals' in the men and causing the women to become participants.   

This should not be upon an Altar of God.   Hopnea and Phineas should be a perfect example of what happens when one sins upon the Altar of God, rather than worship him.


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## Laela (Apr 4, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67, Jesus didn't need any _props _to teach or preach the Gospel. His Parables worked just fine because He spoke directly to the heart of man (_He who have ears to hear _is in reference to our spiritual ears, not our physical ears)  We live in a world so dependent on technology and visual/audio aids that we have become desensitized to things like this, like it's no big deal. It's more appropriate for a couple's retreat or meetings, not the pulpit. I do believe sex within marriage is a sacred act, with the Holy Spirit defining the boundaries within a Christian couple's union.  JMHO


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## StarScream35 (Apr 4, 2012)

I can certainly understand the message but it sounds like he is doing too much and perhaps was trying too hard to get some attention which I believe is what he wanted in the first place. I personally don't think sex is discussed enough in the church. I mean there are some people having some serious struggles that need to hear much needed messages in this sexually charged world. I remember this one time back in college I was struggling with sexual immorality and for whatever reason this particular one time was difficult.  Went to church that Sunday and the pastor's whole sermon was about sex. He ministered to both single people and married people and believe me it was on point and much needed. You better believe I walked out of there knowing what I had to do!


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## Shimmie (Apr 4, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> someone commented that his church was packed on Friday, but packed to hear and see what?
> 
> *Packed to hear about the love of God, packed to hear about how the lost can be saved...or was the church packed for peoples flesh to appeased.
> 
> ...



Iwanthealthyhair67 

"Healthy Hair"....Thank you for saying this...  I mean it... 

*THANK YOU!  *

There is absolutely nothing about this demonstration in this man's Church is giving honour unto God.   Nothing.   He is really leading folks into temptation and setting fire to their flesh.    It's not right.   

This man has a spirit of 'lust' in him; there's pornography in his heart and it is out of control.   No man of God who is RIGHT with God and is lead of the Holy Spirit and not of the FLESH would EVER bring this into a House of Worship.    None of this honours nor does it bring worship unto God.   None of it!   Absolutely none of it.     

And what's so sad here is that even the World knows better and would not bring this into a Church.   That's what's sad!   Extremely sad! 

This is NOT for the House of God where God is worshipped.   He's getting people riled up in the flesh / loins and not in their hearts to honour the Lord God.    This just grieves me so ...    It's extremely grieving.  This man is commiting a major sin by deflecting people's hearts away from worshipping God.   

Folks don't need lessons on sex... once they're naked nature follows it's course.  "They" meaning a man and a woman (husband and wife).  No other gender fixes.  It's one man, one woman, husband and wife.  

Another thing... that bedroom pictured above is just Ugly!


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## LucieLoo12 (Apr 4, 2012)

.. This was funny....but true


ok im done 




			
				Shimmie;15645389 
[B said:
			
		

> *Folks don't need lessons on sex... once they're naked nature follows it's course.* [/B]
> *Another thing... that bedroom pictured above is just Ugly!*


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## Shimmie (Apr 4, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> .. This was funny....but true
> 
> 
> ok im done


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## Shimmie (Apr 4, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> a few months ago it was another well known pastor spending 24 hours in bed (thankfully with his wife) on the church roof ...



What ? ? ? ? ? ? 



But why?   

What does this have to do with Jesus and saving souls?  Sex is not all that complicated.  

Is it ... *?*


RED Flag Alert... Major Red 

*!*

This is not drawing people's attention to Jesus.  Especially those who are lost.  They already have all kinds of sexual issues going on and are trying to get free and healed from it.    

How do ministries like this help and heal rape victims?   Molested children?  homosexuals who surely have more than enough sexual confusion in their lives?    The behaviour is only compacting the problems of an already over sinfully sexed society as it is.     

This is not coming from God.   

No where in the Bible does God instruct Pastors/Ministers/ the Body of Christ to behave like this... especially not by defiling the House of Worship.   

This is nothing but 'men going wild' with their pants on fire...


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## Crown (Apr 4, 2012)

What's that?

In an assembly of the Living SAINT!

The money is for what : prostitution?

erplexed


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## Laela (Apr 4, 2012)

Shimmie said:


>


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## StarScream35 (Apr 5, 2012)

CoilyFields

Girl you are on point you hear me! Thanks sista! I agree, the world has bastardized sex and made it dirty. By golly you can't even have a conversation with someone without it getting perverted and dirty~~that's how far we have gone.  Sex is a real serious issue that really should be treated sacred, this whole explore and get as many partners under your belt has ruined our society. It's turned society into sexual perverts. Women no longer want just want man, they want multiple men so they can compare sizes, Men no longer want one women, they wanna see how it feels with many different women. These days, if you have waited or only slept with your husband then you are considered odd. I mean really? Do people even realize fornicating intertwines your souls with those individuals forever? No wonder marriages are suffering and people cannot maintain relationships, people are being poisoned before they even enter marriage!


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## Shimmie (Apr 5, 2012)

Brighteyes35 said:


> CoilyFields
> 
> Girl you are on point you hear me! Thanks sista! I agree, the world has bastardized sex and made it dirty. By golly you can't even have a conversation with someone without it getting perverted and dirty~~that's how far we have gone.  Sex is a real serious issue that really should be treated sacred, this whole explore and get as many partners under your belt has ruined our society. It's turned society into sexual perverts. Women no longer want just want man, they want multiple men so they can compare sizes, Men no longer want one women, they wanna see how it feels with many different women. These days, if you have waited or only slept with your husband then you are considered odd. I mean really? Do people even realize fornicating intertwines your souls with those individuals forever?
> 
> ...



At the bolded... so on point.   I can't thank you enough for speaking up.  

And to add it's no wonder folks are gender and anatomically (sp?) confused ...  The 'natural' use of the body has totally gotten out of control.


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## MonPetite (Apr 5, 2012)

.............................


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## CoilyFields (Apr 5, 2012)

LittleGoldenLamb said:


> Two things and then I'm out with two shakes of a lamb's tail:
> 
> 1)Young people DO need the church to take sex back. We need to know how it works, what's okay, and pragmatic ways of being sure both people are satisfied sexually in marriage (older women teach younger women this, older men teach the younger men --it should NOT be COED). THIS used to be the norm.
> 
> ...


 
@LittleGoldenLamb Because its made up of different people who have different ideas about how it should be taught...All according to the word of God that they have read. 




I so wish I could have been there to actually see what was being taught and how. But I dont think we should assume that there was an in-depth play-by-play instruction manual being pushed. It could have very well been a tasteful meeting that did indeed break into single sex groups for particulars...

I guess for me the scene did not cause me to recoil in horror but to wonder how its going to tie into the Word of God. There is a church that comes on sundays that I watch on tv while getting dressed for church and they had a bed on stage once. The pastor and his wife sat on the bed while they taught. This wasn't unusual for their church since they regularly use props (which there is nothing wrong with), they even had a zip line once! But I guess thats not for everyone...and thats ok...but it doesnt mean that they are operating in a spirit of error or do not teach the gospel. 

But all in all everyone has to adhere to the Holy Ghost and their own conscience about how they "do" church. And its a dangerous thing to assign a motive to someones heart (not saying you did) just because you dont agree with their methods (especially when its not a sin) because there are plenty of folks who see those same actions as helpful to their spiritual and natural growth.

Sidenote: Stripper poles, seven inch heels, and dollar bills surely *can* be included! We should not try to "demonize" what a married couple does in their marriage bed. If its not a SIN (which we both agreed would include such things as other people, animals etc.) then yes, ANYTHING does go.


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## Shimmie (Apr 5, 2012)

LittleGoldenLamb... great post above.  

I agree wholeheartedly that the 'Church' needs to have scriptural instruction for sex regarding our children/teens/singles.    

I pray that what I am about to say does not sound or seem insensitive, it's not meant to be.  I  can assure you.  

However when it comes to a man and wife, how can sex be so complicated?  It's simple, at least to me it is.  What's the problem between a man and wife and sex ?


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## MonPetite (Apr 5, 2012)

///////////////////


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## CoilyFields (Apr 5, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> @LittleGoldenLamb... great post above.
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly that the 'Church' needs to have scriptural instruction for sex regarding our children/teens/singles.
> 
> ...


 
Speaking from experience...it can be. 

And from what I got from the article it didnt seem like they were discussing the actual mechanics of sex but the the necessity of meeting each others needs in this area..perhaps especially in ways that many have been taught are taboo. Basically re-framing it in its rightful place.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 5, 2012)

LittleGoldenLamb said:


> We are so indoctrinated in the perversion of the world that it complicates what was once simple.
> 
> It's not making sex more than it is --*it's editing out all the other junk the world has added. Even things that are technically not "sins", but carry heavy tainting of the world or had a worldly start are not made clean by the marriage bed.*
> 
> ...


 
LittleGoldenLamb

So who makes the decision about what is "junk/perverse" and what is "holy" in the marriage bed? 

Can we for real sit around (hypothetically) and tell a _married_ couple that they shouldnt do XYZ in _their_ marriage bed cause that will taint it? 

I do totally agree that the world has perverted what God intended. But that perversion was by illicitly engaging with others that were not ones spouse and not having the committed relationship (which would include loving and cherishing your partner) that is required to experience the physical and spiritual fullness of intimacy that God intended. Thats the sick part!

Question: Are you considering a stripper pole in the bedroom perverse? or are you perhaps talking about other extremes such as sado-masichism etc.


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## MonPetite (Apr 5, 2012)

......................


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## felic1 (Apr 5, 2012)

I am sure that this is a distraction.


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## StarScream35 (Apr 6, 2012)

I think one thing we can all agree on is that church really NEEDS to minister everyone about sex. It doesn't matter if you are a man, woman, teenager, adult, single or married you need some clear cut lessons in this area because there has been so much corruption in the area of sex, people don't know what's right and what's wrong. I remember how it was being a teen in my parents church and sitting there starving to be ministered to. I mean messages like "Just be strong when that walk gets difficult" is good and all but exactly what does that mean? There were lots of vague indirect sermons like this in my parents church but that was very unfortunate because there were quite a few of us teens (and adults as well) that needed to hear a blunt message about sex! I do understand it's a very difficult topic to tackle but no need to be afraid, we really do need to take sex back and purify it again. Now me personally, using stripper poles and stripper shoes and a bed as promps is a bit too much. You really don't need to do all that to get the message across but that's my own opinion.


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## Sharpened (Apr 6, 2012)

*sigh* Someone did not do their research on the origin of the stripper pole.

Here is a novel idea: invite the Holy Spirit into the marriage bed.

A small group setting is best for this type of topic, but that should not stop anyone from seeking His guidance on the issue. If I had known about refinement, death to self, and to ask for what He excepted of me, I would have avoided pre-marital sex altogether.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Apr 6, 2012)

Brighteyes35 said:


> *I think one thing we can all agree on is that church really NEEDS to minister everyone about sex.* It doesn't matter if you are a man, woman, teenager, adult, single or married you need some clear cut lessons in this area because there has been so much corruption in the area of sex, people don't know what's right and what's wrong. I remember how it was being a teen in my parents church and sitting there starving to be ministered to. I mean messages like "Just be strong when that walk gets difficult" is good and all but exactly what does that mean? There were lots of vague indirect sermons like this in my parents church but that was very unfortunate because there were quite a few of us teens (and adults as well) that needed to hear a blunt message about sex! I do understand it's a very difficult topic to tackle but no need to be afraid, we really do need to take sex back and purify it again. Now me personally, using stripper poles and stripper shoes and a bed as promps is a bit too much. You really don't need to do all that to get the message across but that's my own opinion.


 
As a married woman ITA. Too much "don't do this and don't do that" doesn't help real people with real emotions and hormones. Being in church and being in the presence of the Holy Spirit leaves a person very physically and emotionally vulnerable. Emotions run high, and with people in close proximity, seeing each other all the time with all the events going on, fornication and adultry is often a result. Especially in a church full of young people, and I used to attend one. Its good to have someone minister about sex in the way God intended, and how the world has painted sex is wrong in many ways...



Sharpened said:


> *sigh* Someone did not do their research on the origin of the stripper pole.
> 
> Here is a novel idea: *invite the Holy Spirit into the marriage bed.*
> 
> A small group setting is best for this type of topic, but that should not stop anyone from seeking His guidance on the issue. If I had known about refinement, death to self, and to ask for what He excepted of me, I would have avoided pre-marital sex altogether.


 
Girl people don't understand that THIS IS KEY to being sexually fulfilled in the marriage bed. Its about your mind in the situation. I tell people all the time, in a marriage, God can fix any situation that needs help. Even sex. When sex in a marriage is not good it can ruin that marriage. People don't know, YOU CAN ASK GOD to help you and your spouse in the sex department. _I'll put myself out there and share_ that at one point sex was getting a little mundane between me and hubby. I wasn't frustrated YET..but I was getting there. So I said a quick prayer and trusted God to handle it however he saw fit. I told God I want to excite my husband, and I want us to enjoy it 1000% again...And it worked. And it still works...It had a lot to do with us just being so busy....And we are still busy, even more now than ever, but we enjoy it so much more.... THAT is how you allow the Holy spirit to enter your marriage bed. The marriage bed is really any and everywhere. Because your DH has to make love to your mind too as well as your body. Our perspective of sex is SO backwards in this day and age. I applaud this minister for being bold enough in the Holy Spirit to even approach this subject.


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## CoilyFields (Apr 10, 2012)

LittleGoldenLamb said:


> God --and please know, I don't say that to be facetious!! I'm trying to go by what He has and has not admonished his people for doing in relation to marriage, within scripture as a whole.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Hey LittleGoldenLamb, I'm soooooo late! Sorry lol



Sis I know you're not being combative! lol. We just seem to be on the same page with some things but leagues apart on others.

I just see it like this:

The Bible has been specific on what is a *sin *concerning sexual relations but _we _have personal preferences concerning other things, and no one has the right to make their personal preference into a right/wrong or sin/pure issue in another persons marriage. 


We agree, For example: The Bible says no bestiality, no sex with (including lusting after) people you're not married to, no rape, homosexuality etc.

But we disagree here: It does NOT say no stripper poles. I know! I know! I'm not splitting hairs here, what I mean is that it did not say that _this _"position/act" is holy/pure etc and _this _"position/act" isnt, _this _way of intimacy is ok (outside of the above mentioned) and _this _way isnt. So if the married couple wants to put mirrors on the ceiling and install a swing set in their bedroom for their pleasure...then where in the Bible is the premise that this is wrong/vile/profane (even if the world did do it first)?

 Because there are plenty of things (sexually related or not) that the world invented that we adopt (cheerfully) into our lifestyles. For this example; lingerie, birth control, KY (and other sensual oils), "moodsetting" music, toys, rotating beds (lol) etc. (And I am fully aware that even with this short list I named some people will agree with some and not others but we have to be careful in what we label a "sin" when its really just our personal preferences)


My point is, it is not the specific acts of sexual intimacy that are sins or not sins...it is the condition under which they are performed that classifies then as wrong. A stripper pole in a club...sinful!...A stripper pole in a married couples bedroom...not sinful! Another example...I really like dancing but will rarely dance in public because I dance really sexy and explicit (what is considered normal in todays clubs lol). But I see nothing wrong with droppin it like its hot (even without music) for my hubby! Once again, not the actual act in and of itself that is wrong...its the setting/conditions under which that act is played out that makes it wrong. 

On another note:

I do understand how some may think the Pastor is doing too much. But assigning sinful intent to the Pastors and congregations motivation for coming to the class based on ones own disapproval of the picture shown is out of line. 
Why would we assume that this Church somehow doesn't preach the gospel because they had this class? Why would we assume that the Church isnt packed on Sunday Mornings as well as this friday for the class? Why are we assuming that the people that came to that class had even seen the set beforehand and it was lust that drove them to attend the session? There's a lot of assumption going on based off of a picture...Its perfectly ok to think the bedroom scene was inappropriate without having further insight on what actually took place but its not ok to assign sinful (heart) motives and actions without proper evidence. 

But at the end of the day...if my DH had a foot fetish (and I dont care if he was born with the inclination or he picked it up in the world) I would be at the nail shop every other day fulfilling his fantasy and letting him have his way with these little piggies. And there is no way that I would believe it was sinful to do so. 

 ok! It is hard to keep it G-rated but I really am trying not to offend anyone with my language or examples whether you agree with me or not...hope I succeeded!


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## MonPetite (Apr 11, 2012)

......................


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## CoilyFields (Apr 11, 2012)

^^^That is so true! Great example (meat of the idols)!


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## aribell (Apr 11, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> I would view this differently. I would say that the spicey things originated in the marriage bed but escaped to become an indulgence between unmarried people. It should all be brought back to the marriage bed! Sexual creativity and indulgences were meant for marriage.
> 
> I mean think about it...
> Sex itself was created and undulged in by married couples first...then prostitution/adultery/fornication stole it! lol
> ...


 
I don't really think this is about "stripping" per se, though that word automatically has negative connotations.  With respect to the picture in the op, I am fairly sure that stripping is being thought of in the context of strip clubs because the picture shows a bunch of dollar bills all around.  So many people are being _socialized _to express themselves sexually in certain ways through what has been seen and done around them.  

I see a woman dancing for her husband, and a husband thinking of his wife like the strippers he used to throw money at as very different things.  It's just a different spirit.


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## aribell (Apr 11, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> I don't like it ...
> 
> Why make smut out of what God designed to be beautiful.
> 
> ...


 
Is this really that pastor?  I've never seen so many side eyes at once.  




Shimmie said:


> This man has a spirit of 'lust' in him; there's pornography in his heart and it is out of control. No man of God who is RIGHT with God and is lead of the Holy Spirit and not of the FLESH would EVER bring this into a House of Worship. None of this honours nor does it bring worship unto God. None of it! Absolutely none of it.
> 
> And what's so sad here is that even the World knows better and would not bring this into a Church. That's what's sad! Extremely sad!
> 
> ...


 
This reminds me of an experience I had at a church.  I would visit their friday evening open mic nights and there was always this theme from the men about lust and impure thoughts.  They would talk about how difficult it was to watch some of the female performers, but how they were holding strong.

Eventually, all this talk about "godly sexuality" really started to seem like a strong indication that these men had not conquered the spirit of lust in them at all.  They kept harping on it because that spirit was still dominating them.  I mean, they were basically talking about how they were lusting after the Christian women singing on stage.  Something I later saw with a leader and a couple of women in the church ended up confirming it.  

So just because sex is being spoken of in a spiritual context does not mean that the conversation is flowing from the Holy Spirit.


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## Shimmie (Apr 11, 2012)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Is this really that pastor?  I've never seen so many side eyes at once.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for making this clear.   

Nicola, I've witnessed so many 'fall'.   (Note:  Now to me one falling is 'so many'). 

But... yeah... I've witnessed so many fall.   *sigh*  And the catalyst 'seemed' to be due to messages like this coming from the pulpit.  

Nicola, back in the late 80's and into the 90's there arose a spirit of divorces flooding Chrisitian marriages.   'You' (general sense) turn around and it was one marriage after another falling apart and it was CRAZY... a whirlwind of pure craziness.   I mean in the pulpit crazy.   

And you know when it started... at least from my witness.   When 'sex' became too topical in the sermons and Bible studies.    

Nicola... I can name names... Oh yes I can.   I won't, but trust me I can name names.  

Bottomline, sex was not being taught under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  It was being taught without restraint; without regard to the Holiness of it.  

It became a subject of the flesh and not of marriage joined in spirit, soul and body.   It was to the point where it was no different than folks in the world laughing and joking about sex and it was just too far off the path of holiness.    

I totally agree that we need to have correct sex counseling and taught in levels of age appropriateness and to the appropriate audience / church members.    Church should not mimick or even come near the atmosphere of a Bolero; it is not a 'club' or parlor of pleasure.     Church is a place of worship; no where should there be any other activity of the flesh present. 

Nicola, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but you are an 'Observer'.     You observe, wait and listen to what the Holy Spirit is showing you.  This is your 'gift', your gift among many which God has bestowed upon you.   God's wisdom is what you cherish and it shows in you well.   

Blessings


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## StarScream35 (Apr 12, 2012)

I just wanna say you ladies are all on point. It's refreshing and encouraging to read your posts. It's nice to be in the company of strong women when you are struggling with this topic. Thank you!


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## MonPetite (Apr 13, 2012)

........................


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## Laela (Apr 13, 2012)

Amein... thanks button not enough for this truth nugget.. 




LittleGoldenLamb said:


> Men don't get enough leadership on conquering lust these days --they just end up blaming women, instead of "manning-up" and admitting* they have far more power in the matter than they wish to admit*.


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## LucieLoo12 (Apr 13, 2012)

Well I can speak for myself, but when I get married its certain things I am not doing. I will let my spouse know ahead of time, so its no surprises


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## aribell (Apr 13, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Nicola, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but you are an 'Observer'.     You observe, wait and listen to what the Holy Spirit is showing you.  This is your 'gift', your gift among many which God has bestowed upon you.   God's wisdom is what you cherish and it shows in you well.
> 
> Blessings



Thank you, I really appreciate that.


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