# Are You Ready Right Now for the Rapture?



## metamorfhosis (Mar 12, 2011)

Hello-

I ran across a lady yesterday who told me that she didn't want to go in the Rapture and she is a Christian. 

If you had a choice and the Rapture happened right now--right at this moment, would you choose to stay or immediately go with JESUS? 

What would you do and why?


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## Shimmie (Mar 12, 2011)

metamorfhosis said:


> Hello-
> 
> I ran across a lady yesterday who told me that she didn't want to go in the Rapture and she is a Christian.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry ... but who would want to stay here without Jesus?  That lady seems confused. erplexed

The tribulation is minus the Holy Spirit.  There will be no door number 1, 2, or 3 to choose from... just leave and be glad for the opportunity, for some will be left who thought they were going.   

If I feel myself moving upward, I will not resist the lift nor yield to gravity.  Call me a "Jefferson", cause I'm movin' on up to the Ultimate Deluxe Condo in the sky.   I'm Heaven bound and Praising God with thankful tears all the way, that He didn't make me stay. 

Hell on earth is bad enough...I sure don't want hell in hell.  My hair is not heat resistant.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 12, 2011)

I want to be called up. The Restrainer will be taken away according to 2 Thess.  All kinds of stuff will break loose. She may need to read the book of Revelation. It will be a time of suffering and sorrow that the world has never seen before.​


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## makeupgirl (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm ready....when the roll is called up yonder I'll be there.


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## anartist4u2001 (Mar 12, 2011)

i wants to go with Jesus! there's a place with no suffering. that's where i want to be.


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## metamorfhosis (Mar 12, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> I want to be called up. The Restrainer will be taken away according to 2 Thess. All kinds of stuff will break loose. She may need to read the book of Revelation. It will be a time of suffering and sorrow that the world has never seen before.​


 
She doesn't read the Bible because she said it is "written by man."


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## OhmyKimB (Mar 12, 2011)

metamorfhosis said:


> Hello-
> 
> I ran across a lady yesterday who told me that she didn't want to go in the Rapture and she is a Christian.
> 
> ...




If I had a choice, I'd go.

If I didn't, I'd go.

I'm am *NOT *staying on *THIS *earth with *THESE CRAZY PEOPLE* and then *NOT *be able to connect to God....shoot I have enough trouble getting through WITH Jesus, why o why would I go without him?

She's crazy. Or misinformed.

Actually if I have no other prayers right now, it's please Lord let me go in the rapture because I don't want to stay here...



_:kay this isn't my only prayer but still::_


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## Shimmie (Mar 12, 2011)

metamorfhosis said:


> _She doesn't read the Bible_ because she said it is "written by man."



This 'speaks' volumes.


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## blazingthru (Mar 13, 2011)

metamorfhosis said:


> Hello-
> 
> I ran across a lady yesterday who told me that she didn't want to go in the Rapture and she is a Christian.
> 
> ...



Well I have to be truthful, This woman cannot be a true Christian, a true Christian loves the lord and wants to be with him, a true christian follows the lamb wherever he goes and is ready to be with him. If anyone is not longing to go, then they love the world and will perish with it. I was thinking about Elijah and how he was waiting to be taken up to heaven. He was waiting. Looking forward to being with God. As we all should be. But people actually think that Jesus is coming four times. See he came the first time to show us how to love the father and each other  and follow him and to die for our sins so that we can have a true relationship with the father. He is coming again for his people and those who died in Christ, He will come again after that to wake the dead (those lost) and judge them. Not to bring anyone to him. That is only happening once.  There is no 7 year tribulation. Not at all. That is not correct. The tribulation is a fact, its not seven years it will probably be a matter of months and its for every human being that is alive on this earth. We are to prepare now to be able to endure. We are to prepare how to be ready to go at any moment anyway. since we don't know the day or time or hour of our own deaths. we need to be ready for it as well.   I will give you scripture after scripture to read up and study it out yourself. Because its important that Satan not be able to deceive you any longer. 

*I will post an article that explains a better detail, I will try to make sure its not offensive to anyone but for real for real how could the word of God offend anyone that is really seeking the truth. *


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## Sharpened (Mar 13, 2011)

*sigh*

I go by what Jesus said in Matthew 24, which separates the Tribulation from God's Wrath--two different time periods. We are not appointed to His Wrath, but did Jesus say we will avoid Tribulation? Always remember, Jesus > Paul.

So few are ready for war, Father, so very few...


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## blazingthru (Mar 13, 2011)

What is the truth about the secret rapture?  Will Jesus return as a thief to take His people away secretly?  Let's find out the bible truth about the 'rapture' of the church.


*Truth about the Secret Rapture of the Church*



secret rapture theory

I don't believe the Bible even hints at a secret rapture of the church, but quite the opposite, it teaches that the next coming of Christ will be glorious, bright like lightening, loud and thunderous.  Do these words sound like a secret rapture?  What does the Bible teach us regarding Jesus' return being a secret? ..... Matthew 24:26 .....'Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.'

Believe it not!!

Do not believe that Jesus will return in secret, but believe Jesus' own words ..... Matthew 24:27 .....'For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.' ..... Jesus could not be any clearer, every eye will see Him return ..... Revelation 1:7 .....'Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.'

One of the most popular verses that the people who teach this secret rapture theory hold on to are the verses that say Jesus will return 'as a thief in the night'.  If you have been taught that Jesus will return as a thief for the church, then you need to read on and find out the amazing truth about these verses.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 .....'For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.'

2 Peter 3:10 .....'But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.'

You will notice that I have stopped when it says 'thief in the night'.  That is because those who hold to the secret rapture teaching stop there also.  But the reason they stop right there is because the next line in 2 Peter EXPOSES the teaching as false ..... 2 Peter 3:10 .....'*But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.*' ..... Did you see the amazing Bible truth there about the secret rapture theory?  The day of the Lord will come as a thief, IN WHICH THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY WITH GREAT NOISE.  The words 'in which' means that these two events happen at the same time.  Jesus returns as a thief and at the same time the heavens pass away with great noise and the elements melt with great heat.  This one verse exposes the secret rapture theory to be false.  So who could Jesus be coming 'as a thief' for?

"When Jesus returns as a 'thief' the heavens will pass away with great noise and melt with great heat"

1 Thessalonians 5:3-4 .....'For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.' ..... This is a pretty straight forward Bible verse which gives us the truth about who Jesus comes as a thief for.  Notice that it says 'that day should not overtake YOU (the church) as a thief'.  So if Jesus doesn't come as a thief for the saved (the church), then who does He return as a thief for?  The lost!!  Take good note of the following verses which clear this issue up nicely.

Matthew 24:43 .....'But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.' ..... Notice Jesus says that the goodman couldn't know the hour that the thief would come, but he could have known what 'watch', ie. the season or when it was near, so that he could keep guard.  This is the same with Jesus' second coming.  We don't know the day or hour, but we can know when it is near, and then we can be watching and waiting for His return.  Do you see what we are saying here?  If you don't know when the second coming is near, you are not going to be watching and waiting, and Jesus will return unexpectedly like a thief and break up your 'house' and you will be lost.  But if you know from studying Bible prophecy the season of Jesus' return, then you will be watching and waiting, and His return will not appear as a thief, because you will be ready.  This is confirmed in the two following verses:

Revelation 3:3 .....'Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore *thou shalt not watch*, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.' ..... If you don't watch, then Jesus will come as a thief to you, but if you do watch, by studying and praying and waiting for Him, then He will not come as a thief to you ..... Revelation 16:15 .....'Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.'

What does the thief come to do? ..... John 10:10 .....'The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.' ..... The thief comes to kill and destroy.  So when Jesus said He was coming as a thief, it was a warning to those who are not watching and waiting and living for Him every day, because they will be destroyed when He returns.  How can Jesus return as a thief for those who are studying and understanding the truth about Bible prophecy and they are watching and waiting for Him?  It's not possible.  The secret rapture theory is nothing other than a false teaching to make you feel comfortable, and to deceive you into thinking you will not go through the great tribulation.  Friend, if you believe that you will be raptured away before the great tribulation starts, and then you find yourself right in the middle of the tribulation, you may find that you haven't the strength or enough oil (Holy Spirit) to withstand it and you may fall away from God.  This is what satan wants.  The tribulation is going to be extremely tough and if you're not prepared for it, then it will be easy for you to fall away.  Just look at the five foolish virgins; they professed to be followers of Christ, but they did not have enough oil, and they didn't make sure they were ready and prepared to go and meet the Bridegroom.  Those who believe in the secret rapture, when they are faced with the tribulation, will find themselves in the same position.

Left Behind

The left behind teaching is another ------- teaching that has flooded the church.  The 'left behind' novels are based on this false teaching and so many Christians hold to this as truth.  Friend, this is nothing other than a lie from satan to cover up the truth.  Let's look at the Bible verses used for this teaching.

second coming of Christ Matthew 24:37-42 .....'But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.' ..... We have already learned that Jesus doesn't come as a thief to the church, but to the lost.  So many Christians believe that it is the church who is taken first and the lost are left behind.  Actually, the 'left behind' novels teach that those who are left, will get another chance at salvation.  Friend, this is a teaching straight from satan himself.  A judgment is happening in heaven right now, and once that judgment is finished, that's it! there's no second chances.  As in the parable of the ten virgins, once the door is closed, it will not be opened again.  Did you notice with the above verse in Matthew 24 that it was the wicked who were TAKEN at the flood.  And Jesus says in Matthew 13:30 .....'Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.' ..... The tares are the lost, and who are taken first?  The tares (lost).  Just as in Noah's day, the wicked shall be TAKEN first and destroyed and the church of God (like Noah and his family) will be left behind ALIVE and saved.  Are you getting the amazing truth of this?  The wicked are taken first and killed and the saved are left behind alive to meet Jesus.  But the wicked are not actually taken away, they are just destroyed by the brightness and glory of Christ Jesus when He returns in the clouds with all His angels.


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## blazingthru (Mar 13, 2011)

Matthew 13:24-30 .....'Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:  But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.  But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.  So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?  He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?  But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.' ..... We had a quick look at the wheat and the tares above, but when you see the context of this parable, you will see that without a shadow of a doubt, the secret rapture theory is completely false.  Did you see the few words above that show the secret rapture cannot be true?  Those words say 'Let both grow together until the harvest'.  So the wheat (church of God) and the tares (the lost) grow TOGETHER until the harvest.  One group is not taken before the harvest.  So when is the harvest? ..... Matthew 13:38-40 .....'The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.  As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.' ..... The harvest is at the end of the world (the second coming of Christ).  This shows the secret rapture theory to be false.

So we know that the end of the world is at the second coming of Christ Jesus.  Now Jesus gave us a promise that He would be with us until the end of the world ..... Matthew 28:20 .....'Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.' ..... Why would Jesus say that He would be with us until the end of the world, if His church was going to be raptured away to be with Him BEFORE the end of the world?  Makes no sense does it?  This is because there will be no secret rapture before the tribulation or before the second coming of Jesus.  The church of God continues on earth with the wicked UNTIL the second coming.  Then and only then will the separation take place.

how Jesus will return Now the word 'rapture' is based on a Bible verse in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 .....'For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.' ..... Notice the words 'caught up'?  These are the words that the rapture is based on.  But if you read these verses in context, they actually expose the secret rapture theory as false.  Notice that it says the Lord shall descend with a SHOUT, and with the TRUMP OF GOD.  Nothing secret there.

So how will Jesus really return?

Matthew 24:27 .....'For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.'

Matthew 25:31 .....'When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.'

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 .....'And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.'

Revelation 1:7 .....'Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.'

the secret rapture theory is nothing other than an attempt by satan to obscure the truth.  His aim is to cover over the truth with lies to deceive us.  But if we just come to the Word of God in prayer and with an honest, humble, open heart, then God will lead us to His truth.  We are living in a time where we need the truth more than ever.  Jesus will return soon, and we need to be watching and waiting for Him.  We need to be ready for tribulation and persecution.  We need to be ready to give our lives for our Saviour Christ Jesus.  Are you willing to give your life for Jesus?  Please don't let that day overtake you as a thief.


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## blazingthru (Mar 13, 2011)

Nymphe said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I go by what Jesus said in Matthew 24, which separates the Tribulation from God's Wrath--two different time periods. We are not appointed to His Wrath, but did Jesus say we will avoid Tribulation? Always remember, Jesus > Paul.
> 
> So few are ready for war, Father, so very few...



which part are you talking about if its this. It already has happen, this is for the destruction of Jerusalem which no christian remained, they heeded the warning and got out of there. Its really good to study out phrophecy you will be amazed at the many things that have already happen. If this is not the paragraph please explain more thanks. Not hijacking the thread, just clarifying some things. 
*Perilous Times*

 15"Therefore when you see the (T)ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in (U)the holy place ((V)let the reader understand),  16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 
 17"Whoever is on (W)the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 
 18"Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 
 19"But (X)woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!


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## Sharpened (Mar 13, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> which part are you talking about if its this. It already has happen, this is for the destruction of Jerusalem which no christian remained, they heeded the warning and got out of there. Its really good to study out phrophecy you will be amazed at the many things that have already happen. If this is not the paragraph please explain more thanks. Not hijacking the thread, just clarifying some things.
> *Perilous Times*
> 
> 15"Therefore when you see the (T)ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in (U)the holy place ((V)let the reader understand),  16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
> ...



But the rest of it has not been completely fulfilled. Also, history repeats itself: how many times did Israel get warnings and punishment? 

Tribulation is still going on in other countries, so the Gospel is still being spread. I do not subscribe to any interpretation other than we have to seek Him for the deeper nature of this as it may pertain to each of us.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 13, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> What is the truth about the secret rapture?  Will Jesus return as a thief to take His people away secretly?  Let's find out the bible truth about the 'rapture' of the church.
> 
> 
> *Truth about the Secret Rapture of the Church*
> ...




I have not heard this term, "secret rapture" but I think I know what you are talking about.  Like all these christian films portraying folks disappearing and leaving the rest of the world with unmanned cars on the highway and such lol...right?!  I don't think the Church will go with Christ in a secret either.


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## Renewed1 (Mar 13, 2011)

With Jesus......these worldly desires are that....worldly. 

Of course, its natural to want to be married, kids, the whole shabang; we are human . 

But my soul wants to be with the Lord. My hearts desire is to win souls to Christ.


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## LovingLady (Mar 13, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> There is no 7 year tribulation. Not at all. That is not correct. The tribulation is a fact, its not seven years it will probably be a matter of months and its for every human being that is alive on this earth.



The tribulation has to occurs in seven years. 

Daniel 12:11-12 
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days." (NIV)

Revelation 11:2-3 
"But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." (NIV)

In both verses the time period adds up to seven years. There is another passage that talks about the anti-christ makes a seven year treaty with Israel, 3.5 years later the treaty is broken.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 14, 2011)

Nymphe said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I go by what Jesus said in Matthew 24, which separates the Tribulation from God's Wrath--two different time periods. We are not appointed to His Wrath, but did Jesus say we will avoid Tribulation? Always remember,* Jesus > Paul*.
> 
> So few are ready for war, Father, so very few...



That was cute!  I'm going to use that sometime.   There is the Final Judgment.  We know that the Church/body of believers is going to be taken up, we can't agree upon a time when.  I might add that, in our belief, a lot of the tribulation in Revelations has already occurred with the early believers.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 14, 2011)

Beware of false Christs and false prophets. These scriptures show the importance of knowing the Word and believing it.  

Matthew 24:23-26

Then if any man shall say to you: Behold! Here [is] Christ, or there; BELIEVE [it] NOT.  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; *insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
*Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desolate place; DO NOT GO forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; BELIEVE [it] NOT.

Matthew 24:27

For just as the lightning flashes in the east and is seen to the very west, so will be the Coming of the Son of Man.​


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## Crown (Mar 14, 2011)

> Hello-
> 
> I ran across *a lady yesterday who told me that she didn't want to go in the Rapture and she is a Christian. *


 Did she say : 
  I don’t want to go in the _Rapture_.
  Or
  I don’t believe in the _Rapture_.
  ???


  Please, don’t confuse Tribulation and Wrath of God. 
  We will face tribulation. In the past... Don’t forget Etienne and the others... Actually, some are facing tribulation because of their faith. And it will be worse and become more and more obvious and general.

  Tribulation will end up at the wrath of God when He will say : it’s enough. 

  The virgin with enough oil in their lamp (Mat. 25:1-13) will not suffer The righteous wrath (Rev. 16), but they suffer and will suffer the tribulation of the end times.
Be prepared!

 Rev. 3.10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, *I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth*.


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## blazingthru (Mar 14, 2011)

Abdijz said:


> The tribulation has to occurs in seven years.
> 
> Daniel 12:11-12
> "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days." (NIV) *this has already happen. this is the destruction of Jerusalem,  and the appearance of Jesus, the 7 years is half of Jesus ministry 3.5 and the remaining 3.5 years is the remain years in which the Jews had to turn to God, but they refused to accept the teachings and see Jesus for who he was, they were no longer the chosen people it had ended with the death of Stephen, I had already posted this information.
> ...


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## blazingthru (Mar 14, 2011)

Now remember that God said to Israel in the Old Testament that they were His chosen people, a kingdom a priests and a holy nation? ..... Exodus 19:6 .....'And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.' ..... And yet this is now applied to the Christian Church as seen in 1 Peter 2:9 .....'But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.' ..... Now some people say that this was for the Jews only, but this letter of Peter was to the church, 'the strangers scattered abroad'. And notice that in the verse above that Peter is saying they were 'called out of darkness'. The Jews weren't called out of darkness, they already had been given the light, but hadn't accepted it. It was the Gentile world that was in darkness and were called out. These are the Gentile converts who are now the chosen people of God. Now notice this statement from Paul ..... Galatians 3:29 .....'And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.' ..... Remember in Galatians 3:16, Paul confirmed that Jesus was now the seed of Abraham? And now here he is saying that ANYONE who is in Christ is Abraham's seed, ie, will be called Israel. That is spiritual Israel. Notice what Paul says in Romans 2:29 .....'But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.' ..... This is the amazing Bible truth about Israel. There is no longer a chosen literal Jew, but ANYONE who is in Christ is a spiritual Jew, and the chosen of God.
Acts 15:7-9 .....'And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.'
I'm not saying that there are no more literal Jews of the flesh alive, or that they are all lost. I'm saying that a Jew of the flesh is no longer the only special chosen people of God. But a Jew of the heart (including Gentiles) are God's chosen people ..... Romans 9:6-8 .....'Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.' ..... Being just a Jew of the flesh counts for nothing anymore. But anyone can now become part of the TRUE spiritual nation of Israel, whether Jew or Gentile, anyone who accepts and follows Jesus and who worship God in Spirit and Truth. God no longer looks upon the flesh, but upon the heart to see who His children are ..... Philippians 3:3 .....'For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.'
Ephesians 3:5-6 .....'Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.'
We now need to look at another verse which is wrongly interpreted ..... Romans 11:26 .....'And so all Israel shall be saved.' ..... In light of all we have just revealed, there is only one conclusion to this Bible verse, and that is all SPIRITUAL Israel will be saved. If you take this verse to mean all physical Israel will be saved, then you contradict virtually the whole of the New Testament ..... Galatians 3:28 .....'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.' ..... The end times are not all about literal Israel, but spiritual Israel, and the churches of today need to be awoken to this truth.
"The Christian religion is based upon a Jewish manual called the Bible. Christianity is not a new religion, but rather the completion of the Jewish faith." (Amazing Facts)
Now that we see the truth about this, we can apply it to end times Bible prophecy. When we see words like Israel, the temple, mount Zion, Babylon, we can understand more fully that God is applying a spiritual meaning to them, not a physical one. Just remember that it says in Romans 9:6 .....'For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.' ..... Christians need to stop applying Bible prophecy in Daniel and Revelation to physical Israel and start understanding the spiritual aspect of it. Jesus Christ is the centre of Bible prophecy, not the nation of Israel. We need to stop focusing on the flesh and the earthly kingdom and start focusing on the Spirit and the heavenly kingdom, which the Bible confirms is IN US! (Luke 17:21). Satan wants to divert your attention from the truth to lies. This way he is able to deceive you, so that you are unprepared for what is coming on the world, and unprepared for the second coming of Jesus. Put aside man made popular teachings, and come to God's Word in the Bible with prayer and faith, and God will be faithful and reveal His truth to you. Let's look to spiritual Israel in the end times, NOT physical Israel.


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## makeupgirl (Mar 14, 2011)

Hello Ladies,

Now that we are all doing great.  Here we go:

That rapture is not a secret event.  Why? Even though, the word rapture is not in the bible, 1 Thes 4:17 verse tells us that we who are in Christ shall be caught up to me Jesus in the air (in the greek meaning harpazo and rapture is the english meaning of "caught up or taken away). I believe that some think that the rapture is a secret event because Christ is going to get us like a thief in the night/in a twinkling of an eye.  However, the secret is no one knows the day or the hour but God the Father.  

Are we facing tribulations?  Yepper, we are.  The body of Christ will still face day to day tribulations (John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.)  This verse doesn't mean it's the great tribulation.  The trials and tribulations is going to be a whole lot different from the great tribulation aka God's wrath.  We (The body/bride of Christ) is not going to be apart of the great tribulation, we're not here (Thank you Jesus) and if you think we are going to be here, trust me, you are not going to want to be here.  I've had dreams about some of the stuff that's going to go down.  What's going on here today in the world is nothing and just a little taste of what's to come. 

There is a fine line between day to day tribulations and the great tribulation to come.  I'm saying this because I've talked to a lot of post-tribbers that think that our day to day tribs or what is happening now is the great tribulation and it's not.  If the bride of Christ is still here, then the great tribulation hasn't started yet. 

What do you think sparks the great tribulation?

The rapture of the church sparks it off.  There is going to be one unbeliever (or a few probably) that is going to find a clue (maybe they did pay attention in church to the teachings of the rapture, maybe a believer left behind a letter or video) and report that the rapture of the believers in Christ has happened and that it was true indeed. The majority of the non-believers remaining are going to panic (wow I can only imagine the tweets and facebooking at that time) that's when the Anti-Christ will promise peace, comfort, lolipops, and sunshine and they will put all of their trust in this man that they think will be like a savior to them.  This will happened the first part of the great tribulation which is 3 1/2 years.  

The last 3 1/2 years is when Anti shows his ugliness and turn on the peeps.  The 666 marking in order to sell or buy, the beheading of the tribulation saints, the 2 witnesses that will be God's witnesses during those times and then they will be killed by our enemies and then the 3rd day will be resurrected and go back to heaven.  

Now, those who believe that the church will go through the Great tribulation, are you sure you want to be here and go through that?


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## Sharpened (Mar 14, 2011)

> *Matthew 24:29* Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be  darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall  fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
> 
> *Mark 13:24-25* But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.



Please, take these passages to prayer and let Him reveal the truth to you.


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## blazingthru (Mar 14, 2011)

The Two Witnesses explained, this is history, not my sayings or my thoughts. But yes I do believe that it is very accurate. I learned about the Inquisition in middle-school and its affect on the world at large. 

When Christians say that these two witnesses are Moses and Elijah, they are not completely wrong.  You see, Moses and Elijah represent the Word of God.  Moses represents the Law and Elijah represents the Prophets.  Jesus confirmed that He did not come to destroy the law and the prophets, but to fulfill them.  The word fulfill meaning t*o exalt, to bring a clearer understanding. * As we know, Moses and Elijah are in Heaven.  We know this because they appeared with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration.  Now there is a verse in Revelation 11 which for me proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the two witnesses in Revelation CANNOT be Moses and Elijah themselves ..... Revelation 11:7-8 .....'And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.' ..... Now have a real good think about this.  Firstly, Moses and Elijah were taken to Heaven and given glorified, immortal bodies.  So how can they be killed by people on earth?  Why would God send them back to earth to be killed, when Jesus died for us all.  When you really think about it, it makes no sense to think the two witnesses are Moses and Elijah.  So was the Word of God killed?  _It was in France during the French Revolution as the Papal reign was coming to an end.
_
"The French convention dressed an ***, loaded it with the symbols of Christianity, and tied the Old and New Testaments to it's tail.  It was then led in mock procession, the crowd piled books of devotion into heaps and burned them to ashes, amid blasphemous shouts.  A prostitute was enthroned as 'goddess of reason'."    L.E.Froom, Prophetic Faith of our Fathers, Vol 2, Page 738

"France stands apart in the worlds history as the single state which by the decree of her legislative assembly, pronounced there was no God."   Blackwoods Magazine Nov. 1870

"On November 26 1793, the convention, of which 17 Bishops and some Clergy were members, decreed the abolition of all religion."   The Age of Revolution, W.T.Hutton, Page 156

What about the two witnesses being dead for three and a half days? (Rev. 11:9).  Well, we know that in bible prophecy a day is a literal year, so this would equate to three and a half literal years.  Take a look at the following quote:

"In 1793, the decree passed the French Assembly suppressing the Bible.  Just three years after, a resolution was introduced into the Assembly going to supersede the decree, and giving toleration to the scriptures.  That resolution lay on the table for six months, when it was taken up and passed without a dissenting vote .... On 17th June 1797."   George Stoffs, Midnight Cry, Vol 4, Nos.5-6, 47

17 November 1793 - France votes the Bible and religion out.  (Death)

17 June 1797 - France votes the Bible and religion back in.  (Resurrected)

To the exact time of 3.5 years this prophecy was fulfilled by the nation of France.  Remember that it says the beast from the bottomless pit does this to the two witnesses.  A beast in bible prophecy represents a nation, (see Daniel 7).  France is the only nation that fulfills this prophecy of killing the two witnesses, the law and the prophets (the Bible).  Please understand also that it was Papal Rome that started the French revolution.  When the Christian reformation first hit France, it was accepted with open arms.  This then angered the Roman Catholic Church and they initiated the revolution to stamp out the reformation.

Notice in Revelation 11 verse 10 that it says the two witnesses tormented the people on earth ..... Revelation 11:10 .....'because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.' ..... How does the Word of God torment the earth?  Take a look at this prophetic scene in Zechariah 5:1,3,4 .....'Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.  Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.' ..... This flying roll (or scroll) is the Word of God, which is the Bible going throughout the earth (flying).  Do you see what is happening here?  It's amazing what God reveals through bible prophecy.  This roll (the Word of God) is convicting people of their sin, it shows them their wrong doing, and reveals that they will be destroyed if they don't change their ways and accept and follow Jesus.  This is what is meant in Revelation 11, when it says that the two witnesses torment the earth.  The Bible curses those who continue in sin and worldly living.

"Moses and Elijah cannot be killed by the world, therefore they cannot be the witnesses"

God's Word is portrayed with a dual image.  The two tablets of stone on which the Ten Commandments were written, the double edged sword of the Word, and Jesus was the combination of two natures, the human and divine.  The volume of the Bible all points to Jesus ..... Hebrews 10:7 .....'Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.' ..... And Jesus confirmed in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus that if you don't hear the Word of God, then there is nothing else to help you ..... Luke 16:31 .....'And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.' ..... Again He uses Moses and the prophets (Elijah) to symbolize God's Word and the importance of heeding it.  Just as on the mount of transfiguration, Moses and Elijah endorsed the first coming of Jesus Christ, the Word of God in the Old and New Testaments stand beside us to endorse Him and are used as witnesses to the whole world of His soon return.

Revelation 11:5-6 .....'And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.' ..... This is an interesting one.  Are Moses and Elijah going to breath fire like dragons?  Is it Moses and Elijah that have power to shut heaven, or is it the Word of God?  Here God is again likening His Word in the Bible with the ministry of Moses and Elijah.  Through Elijah, God stopped the rain and also consumed the soldiers with fire from Heaven when they challenged Elijah (2 Kings 1).  Through Moses, God turned the water of the Nile into blood, and brought the plagues upon Egypt.  The verses above are a warning to those who would try to destroy the Bible, like the Roman Catholic Church have tried to.  Do not mess with God and His Word.

What did Jesus do after He was resurrected? ..... Luke 24:27 .....'And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.' ..... Here again we see the law and the prophets (Moses and Elijah).  What significance does this have?  Well, we see who God's true people really are during the very end times ..... Revelation 12:17 .....'And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.' ..... The woman is the true church of God, and she has two outstanding characteristics, which are keeping God's Commandments (the law) and having the testimony of Jesus.  What is the testimony of Jesus? ..... Revelation 19:10 .....'for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.' ..... So these end time saints have the law and the prophets.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 14, 2011)

The Coming of Christ is not the rapture, though.


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## blazingthru (Mar 14, 2011)

Isaiah 8:16 .....'Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.'

Psalm 19:7 .....'The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.'

Isaiah 8:20 .....'To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.'

The Law and the Testimony (prophecy) represented by Moses and Elijah is the Word of God.  The Word of God (the law and the prophets) in the Old and New Testaments are the two witnesses that God's end time people have.  They hold on to the truth of these two witnesses and never let them go.  The symbolism of Moses and Elijah don't end there though.  There are two groups of saved people when Jesus returns.  Those that have died and will be resurrected, and those that are still living and will be translated into glory, just as Moses died and was resurrected, and Elijah was translated while still living.

"These are the two witnesses, the Law and the prophets"

The BibleRevelation 11:11-12 .....'And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.  And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.' ..... Surely this must represent actual people right?  No, remember Revelation is full of symbols and this happens at the end of the 1260 years of Papal darkness.  Do you know what happened after the Papal Church of Rome tried to destroy the Bible between 538 and 1798?  World missions and the Bible societies started taking the Word of God throughout the whole world (British Bible Society 1804, American Bible Society 1817), thus signified by the two witnesses above ascending up to Heaven.  The Bible was lifted up after it's 1260 years in sackcloth and was spread throughout the whole earth.  After the French revolution, the Bible not only got up on it's feet, but arose to new heights of worldwide distribution.  These two witnesses certainly 'ascended up to the heavens'.

The two witnesses of Revelation 11 cannot be Moses and Elijah.  The Old and New Testaments are the only witnesses we have for our faith in Jesus, and it is through faith in God's Word that we receive power.  God's Word in the Bible is the light that shines throughout the earth.  In Revelation 1, the church is portrayed as candlesticks.  We are the candlesticks that hold up the light, which is the Word of God, and God supplies the Holy Spirit (Olive tree oil) to give power to that light.  During these end times we must hold up the truth of God's Word and proclaim the soon return of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ ..... Luke 11:33 .....'No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.' ..... Just as the lamps needed the candlesticks to lift them up and give light, the Word of God needs us to lift it up and reveal His light.

When God reveals the truth to you, don't keep that truth to yourself, but share it with the world.  We base our faith on the Word of God in the Bible, and we will also be judged according to that Word.  Are you living according to the Word that your faith is base on?


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## blazingthru (Mar 14, 2011)

I use to believe this stuff, but it just didn't' make any sense to me, I couldn't figure it out and I searched the scriptures but when I find something it didn't make sense to me and no one could explain it then people started making up stuff. as I read the same things in this thread and it really upsets me. Because I was lost but I was searching for the truth and found it and people are lost and happy there. But calls themselves Christians.  Really! for real! I guess so if it means you don't' have to change and you can do whatever you want to because for real for real its all about you(not you) but you know what I mean. That why the scriptures say the (some)very elect will be fooled. Matthew 24:24 (New American Standard Bible)

 24"For false Christs and (A)false prophets will arise and will show great (B)signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even (C)the elect.
oh well, all I can do is spread the truth to those who are willing to hear, not my truths Gods truth and pray its a blessing to someone who needs it.  I reminded of a scripture
*Revelations 22:11*
11"Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

 12"Behold, I am coming quickly, and *My reward is with Me,* to render to every man according to what he has done. 
 if this scripture alone doesn't clarify that Jesus is only coming once for his people and when he comes he is bringing his reward, I don't know what else will reach. He will come again our Father in heaven with the new Jerusalem and with his judgment, for the lost. (who by the way are dead) that's it nothing else. You don't go the first time you don't' go at all. Period.
there by the Grace of God go I.  Thank you Jesus for your mercy, goodness and kindness to me. for delivering me out of the madness and Satan lies.


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## Crown (Mar 14, 2011)

Please, don't confuse great tribulation and wrath of God.
The great tribulation is for ALL.
The Wrath of God is for the non elect.



Mat. 9 “T*hen you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me*. 10 *At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other*, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but *for the sake of the elect* those days will be shortened.

29 “*Immediately after the distress of those days    “‘the sun will be darkened, 
   and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken*. 

Rev. 6: 12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. *The sun* turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, *the whole moon* turned blood red, 13 and *the stars* in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

Mat. 30 “*Then* will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then *all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory*. 31 And *he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other*.

33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.


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## makeupgirl (Mar 14, 2011)

You know what's funny.  Before I got saved, I never heard about the rapture.  I knew that Jesus was coming back but didn't know why.  Once I grew in Christ and attended bible study (at church and personal), then I learned about the rapture.  10 years ago today I wasn't in Christ.  So praise be to God that he sent me back to VA to give my life to him.  I could have given myself to him anywhere but he introduced my family to a bible-teaching small church and allowed me to come back and be apart of it as his daughter.  Cool beans.


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## makeupgirl (Mar 14, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> The Coming of Christ is not the rapture, though.


 
That's correct.  It's not the same events.


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## Zeal (Mar 14, 2011)

WHAT?????  I'm like Mary Mary.  I'm walkin'  .  What's up Enoch?


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## Prudent1 (Mar 16, 2011)

^^^[email protected] What's up Enoch?


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## ktykaty (Mar 16, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> The Two Witnesses explained, this is history, not my sayings or my thoughts. But yes I do believe that it is very accurate. I learned about the Inquisition in middle-school and its affect on the world at large.





blazingthru said:


> So was the Word of God killed?  _It was in France during the French Revolution as the Papal reign was coming to an end.
> _
> "The French convention dressed an ***, loaded it with the symbols of Christianity, and tied the Old and New Testaments to it's tail.  It was then led in mock procession, the crowd piled books of devotion into heaps and burned them to ashes, amid blasphemous shouts.  A prostitute was enthroned as 'goddess of reason'."    L.E.Froom, Prophetic Faith of our Fathers, Vol 2, Page 738
> 
> ...




Hello Blazingthru,

I've studied what you wrote but IMHO theses so called historical facts are erroneous. there seems to be a confusion between  local power (Commune) and national power (French Convention) during the French revolution.
In November 1793 the Convention voted a law authorizing Communes to forbid public worship and to close churches on their territory. But in all the constitutions of France up to 1799, freedom of religion was guaranteed & private worship or mass was still legal.

For example, in Paris where the atheist movement was one of the worst, churches where "only" closed from November 1793 to May 1795. Parisians where going to mass in the surrounding towns.

If a beast in Bible prophecy is a nation, then Revelation 11 is not about France, because atheists and deists never succeed to abolish/forbid all religion in the whole nation.
If there's one thing that the French revolution did prove, it's that you cannot kill the Church of Christ, no matter how hard you try.

If you want more precision about that, I'll be happy to help.


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## lovely008 (Mar 16, 2011)

The only good thing about the rapture that I can think of would be the great revival that will occur...does she want to be part of that or something? Or maybe she follows bible prophecy closely and wants to see how things will unfold? I dunno, I don't think any of us can ever fathom how terrible the tribulation will truly be! I think the terrible situation going on in Japan is giving us a taste, a simple drop of how horrible things will be for the whole world. Things just keep getting worse over there :/

Tell her she will be missing the marriage supper of the Lamb?! Jesus wants her to be there!


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## softblackcotton (Mar 16, 2011)

When Jesus Comes I want to be where he is. This world is too sinful and it's too hard to be/remain happy here.


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