# Who is the Remnant Church



## blazingthru (Mar 24, 2011)

Who is the Remnant Church 

 		To determine who is the remnant Church whether it be one or more  denominations, you will need to find a Church who have people displaying  the following attributes. They must:


Be a minority, that is, a remnant.
Keep all the Ten Commandments of God including the fourth.
Be Apostolic in nature, similar teaching and belief of the apostles.
Arise after the 1260 years of Papal supremacy which is after 1798.
Arise in America, the earth that helped the woman. See verse by verse study on Revelation 12.
Have the testimony of Jesus Christ which is the Spirit of  Prophecy or the Gift of Prophecy manifest through a prophet or prophets,  Revelation 19:10; 22:9.
Be expecting the Second coming of Christ being the last.
Understand Bible prophecy and 666 and the Mark of the Beast issue.
Be filled with the Holy Spirit to boldly proclaim the gospel message.
Believe in the Bible as the only source of doctrine.
Believe in the once only atoning sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.
Abstain from cigarettes, drugs or unhealthy eating that damages their bodies, which are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Understand that the dead sleep until the resurrection to life or resurrection to damnation.
Know that hell-fire is an event and that the wicked do not get eternal life and do perish.
Believe in the young age of the earth, and that God created the world in six days.
Believe in Baptism by full immersion of people who have repented and made their own decision to follow Jesus and partake in it.
Believe in the sanctity of marriage.
Believe that Jesus is our only mediator and that only He can forgive sins.
Believe in the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (Note:  The word Trinity is not found in the Bible and is a contraction of the  words “tri” which means three and divinity which means God. The Bible  actually uses the word Godhead, so if you don’t like the word trinity,  use the word Godhead which still says that God is three in one, i.e.  Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.)
Believe in being faithful stewards through tithing and offerings.
Be prepared to endure persecution for their faith.
Be a Church that Satan is making war with, that is, incur the  wroth of the dragon, eg: Many websites & people attacking it with  false rumours.
Be a world wide movement. The Gospel is to be preached in all the  world, Matthew 24:14; Revelation 14:6-12, so it must be a world wide  movement.
 		God’s true remnant Church has the following to look forward to when  the New Jerusalem, with the mansions that Jesus Himself has prepared  for us eventually comes to rest on the New Earth.


 				Revelation 21:10-24
 				“_And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high  mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending  out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was  like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as  crystal; … 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in  them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. … 18 And the building  of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto  clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were  garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was  jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an  emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh,  chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a  chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21 And  the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one  pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent  glass._”
Now all the people are not going to be like this, The wheat will grow with the Tares. Until the lord puts the wheat in the barn and burns the tares.


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## Sharpened (Mar 24, 2011)

Let's make it simpler: we actually forsake this world and our very being to allow Christ through His Set-Apart Spirit to rebirth our nature. When we become a disciple as Yeshua instructed, this will be the result. The question should be do we believe that He is powerful enough to control His Body to His will? For what I have seen so far in my life, the answer is no!


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## aribell (Mar 25, 2011)

When I initially read this, I disagreed with some but thought to pass it over.  However, upon looking at it again, I will highlight certain things for others passing by to reflect upon.  The original post is saying that:

1.  You must worship on Saturday (I can only presume that means following the manner of 7th Day Adventists)
2.  Your denomination must have been founded after * 1798*.
3.  Your church must have only arisen in the United States to be the true "remnant church".

7th Day Adventism has been debated thoroughly on here, so I will not go into that.  However, the date 1798 lacks any historical backing to it.  Even if one refuses to acknowlege the era of "papal supremacy," protestant congregations began forming in the late 1590s, 200 years before this 1798 date.  And lastly, the idea that the "remnant church" must have arisen in the United States is, well...I will say this: God's "church" is not about the buildings or where the denominational headquarters are.  Geographical boundaries do not define Christ's body.  Nor do temporal boundaries for that matter.  

Please beware of asserting "truths" that are divisive and without authority to support them.  My intention is not to be in here arguing over any points, but still we have to be very diligent about watching what teachings are asserted *especially* when they purport to define who is and is not the "true church."


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## Crown (Mar 25, 2011)

> Who is the Remnant Church
> 
> To determine who is the remnant Church whether it be one or more  denominations, you will need to find a Church who have people displaying  the following attributes. They must:
> 
> ...


nono:

The Remnant Church is not a denomination.

The children of YHWH are coming out :

Jer. 51 : 45 “Come out of her, my people! Run for your lives! Run from the fierce anger of the LORD.

Rev. 18 : 4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:    “‘Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;  5 for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.


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## blazingthru (Mar 26, 2011)

I seen this article and it made me think about a few things.  Who is talking about the last days?  Who is explaining bible prophesy. Who is still following all of the commandments? How can you throw out one, doesn't the word say if you break one you break them all?  Prior to 1798 people were being slaughter for what they believed everywhere but in the US. Its just something to think about.


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## aribell (Mar 26, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> I seen this article and it made me think about a few things.  Who is talking about the last days?  Who is explaining bible prophesy.* Who is still following all of the commandments? How can you throw out one, doesn't the word say if you break one you break them all?*  Prior to 1798 people were being slaughter for what they believed everywhere but in the US. Its just something to think about.



I think the bolded is particularly important because in Galatians, when Paul says that he who attempts to be justified by keeping the law is a debtor to keep the whole law.  Being a debtor to the law is what led to the need for a perfect atonement, because we will never be able to be justified before God by keeping the law.  



> 1For(A) freedom Christ has(B) set us free;(C) stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to(D) a yoke of(E) slavery. 2Look: I, Paul, say to you that(F) if you accept circumcision,(G) Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that(H) he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4You are(I) severed from Christ,(J) you who would be justified[a] by the law;(K) you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly(L) wait for the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus(M) neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but(N) only faith working through love.
> 
> 
> 7(O) You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying(P) the truth? 8This persuasion is not from(Q) him who calls you. 9(R) A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10(S) I have confidence in the Lord that you will(T) take no other view than mine, and(U) the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. 11But if I, brothers,[b] still preach[c] circumcision,(V) why am I still being persecuted? In that case(W) the offense of the cross has been removed. 12I wish(X) those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!
> ...


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## Sharpened (Mar 27, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> I seen this article and it made me think about a few things.  Who is talking about the last days?



 Ever read the Geneva Bible? I got dozens of links to those receiving prophecy from Him outside of organized religion and the vast majority of it is not good. Want the links?



> Who is explaining bible prophesy?


 Those He called to do so right now for this age. I got some links on that, too, ones contrary to popular opinion. Also remember, Jesus said it was the end of the _age_ (_aion_ in Greek) not world.



> Who is still following all of the commandments?


 Jesus gave new commandments and we are told they will be written in our hearts. To get locked down by practice does not allow for the flexibility His servants need to get His will done in any situation.



> How can you throw out one, doesn't the word say if you break one you break them all?


 Jesus said to die to self and to give up everything and follow Him. Have you done that? That is what He commanded, no? What did God Himself tell you to do?



> Prior to 1798 people were being slaughter for what they believed everywhere but in the US.


 The Puritans slaughtered the Quakers in the 1600’s and did many thing Jesus did not tell them to do.



> Its just something to think about.


 Think about these passages and take them to the Lord in prayer (not man):



> *Jeremiah 31:31-33* Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel [which was scattered], and with the house of Judah. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days, said the LORD, *I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts*; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
> 
> *Ezekiel 11:19-20* And I will give them one heart, and I will put a *new spirit within you*; and I will take *the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh*. That they may walk in my statutes, and keep my ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
> 
> ...


  Do you trust The Lord to write His will on your heart? As He stated repeatedly, it is by His Spirit, not words of men. Look at that extra-biblical stuff in that list. The taint of men is rife in it. 

  Let us look at this for a minute. Did Jesus not tell us to follow Him? Did He not tell us His Guide will help us? Did he once order us to follow a religion? Did Jesus say the Kingdom  of God is religion? Did He tell anyone to pick a religion or join a church? Does He have the power to cleanse and reform heart and mind? Does He have the power to order us without the Bible in front of us?

  If any group claims to have the truth, it lies for none of us knows all about God (1 Corinthians 8:2, 1 Corinthians 13:9). That means no religion is correct; all are wrong! We are supposed to be members of His Ecclesia, the ones called out by God Himself to become subjects in His Kingdom. Obedience to Him is the name of this game and He can order us all by Himself through His Spirit.

  No one, no group, no institution can lay claim that they helped save me. Only He gets that glory and praise. He alone guides my steps. He alone teaches and shows what I need to know and share. He alone has me open up the Bible to where I need to go. He alone rewards me for being contrary to this world. He alone prods me back on His narrow path towards Him. He alone gives me dreams and words in His gentle voice. Can you say that or do you give praise to man and intellect?

  My existence alone should make anyone question everything coming through their eyes and ears. How do you explain me then? Is He not great enough to order me without religion? The remnant will know who they are when He calls them, not man’s assumption.


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## makeupgirl (Mar 28, 2011)

I didn't understand the post.  So I'm just going to say I'm apart of the body/bride of Christ.


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## blazingthru (Mar 28, 2011)

at first I thought it was wrong to post this article since it seems others are offended which was never my intentions. However, I realize that it doesnt' matter what you say someone will be offended in one form or another. I am a researcher.  It doesn't offend me when others talk against what I believe, I think about what is said and go and research it. I can't relate to others being or feeling insulted. So for that I  apologize if you felt that way. I don't apologize for the post, I think its interesting and something to look at in regards to what your church teaches and practice, I am not promoting my church at all. That is really nothing I have heard being teached as long as I remember its just the truths in the bible.  I actually found my church much later, After I researched things I had been taught all my life that are untrue. I didn't comment personally because I am not attacking any one and I think its sinful to argue, As Christian we are not to do that, but we are to learn from each other and that is my intentions and so I will look up some of the things listed here from others, I already have an ideal about them and they do not measure up with the scriptures,  Adventist do not teach a religion ( just in case someone wanted to know) IF they do then its not the right church to be in.  The Law is something we all follow, we follow the law every time we walk out of the door and drive to work and follow the laws of the road and the laws of the state and so on and so on. The only Law that people have a problem  with is the Law of God, which is beneficial to us. It is not a burden unless we make it one by not wanting to follow it.  Because we love God his Law is a pleasure to us to follow that is really what is being said in the scriptures its not just a set of stringent rules to follow its the Love of Christ that enable us to follow his law and its no longer a burden. I think the greatest mistake is what is the law? I believe that many Christian are just not sure any longer what is the Law.  Thats why its important to find a a true believing Church that encourages and teaches us how to study the bible, not tell us everything is okay and its really not.  Give us what our itching ears want to hear. I have learned so many things on this forum and its been exciting to go and research.  I am very very confident in what I have learned and still open and ready to study out more things which is our duty as a Christian


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## Sharpened (Mar 28, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> at first I thought it was wrong to post this article since it seems others are offended which was never my intentions. However, I realize that it doesnt' matter what you say someone will be offended in one form or another. I am a researcher.  It doesn't offend me when others talk against what I believe, I think about what is said and go and research it. I can't relate to others being or feeling insulted. So for that I  apologize if you felt that way. I don't apologize for the post, I think its interesting and something to look at in regards to what your church teaches and practice, I am not promoting my church at all. That is really nothing I have heard being teached as long as I remember its just the truths in the bible.  I actually found my church much later, After I researched things I had been taught all my life that are untrue. I didn't comment personally because I am not attacking any one and I think its sinful to argue, As Christian we are not to do that, but we are to learn from each other and that is my intentions and so I will look up some of the things listed here from others, I already have an ideal about them and they do not measure up with the scriptures,  Adventist do not teach a religion ( just in case someone wanted to know) IF they do then its not the right church to be in.  The Law is something we all follow, we follow the law every time we walk out of the door and drive to work and follow the laws of the road and the laws of the state and so on and so on. The only Law that people have a problem  with is the Law of God, which is beneficial to us. It is not a burden unless we make it one by not wanting to follow it.  Because we love God his Law is a pleasure to us to follow that is really what is being said in the scriptures its not just a set of stringent rules to follow its the Love of Christ that enable us to follow his law and its no longer a burden. I think the greatest mistake is what is the law? I believe that many Christian are just not sure any longer what is the Law.  Thats why its important to find a a true believing Church that encourages and teaches us how to study the bible, not tell us everything is okay and its really not.  Give us what our itching ears want to hear. I have learned so many things on this forum and its been exciting to go and research.  I am very very confident in what I have learned and still open and ready to study out more things which is our duty as a Christian



 Actually, I am offended by this big block of text due to poor eyesight, but that is my problem. What you are reading in my posts is my passion for everyone to take everything they take into their hearts and brains to the Lord in prayer and wait for the answer. It is very easy to see when someone has not.

Nothing you have said counters or examines anything anyone in this thread has posted. You can tell us what you think we should think or feel, but God Almighty has the last word and the Scriptures say you are mistaken. So now it is up to you to take this to the Lord to find the truth and He will give you the words to show the rest of us. Yes, it is really that simple.


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## blazingthru (Mar 28, 2011)

Nymphe said:


> Let's make it simpler: we actually forsake this world and our very being to allow Christ through His Set-Apart Spirit to rebirth our nature. When we become a disciple as Yeshua instructed, this will be the result. The question should be do we believe that He is powerful enough to control His Body to His will? For what I have seen so far in my life, the answer is no!


  My apologies I am not understanding this statement here.


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## blazingthru (Mar 28, 2011)

nicola.kirwan said:


> When I initially read this, I disagreed with some but thought to pass it over.  However, upon looking at it again, I will highlight certain things for others passing by to reflect upon.  The original post is saying that:
> 
> 1.  You must worship on Saturday (I can only presume that means following the manner of 7th Day Adventists)
> 2.  Your denomination must have been founded after * 1798*.
> ...



Actually it does its the conclusion of the 1,260 years. The end of the Papal Supremacy reign. The bible is clear on this.  Also you are correct in the protestant churches forming then and what was happening to them at that time? they were being persecuted, persecution of true believer lasted for 1,260 years.  The bible was hidden. NOT that it wasn't being read and taught it was in secret. 
Here in the US bible truths were being study more diligently  as in times of old,when the Hebrews who studied and understood knew to expect Jesus. Were actually eagerly awaiting him.  America is written in the bible it is the second beast that came out of the earth. _Revelation  13:11 .....'And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and  he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.'_ .....  Well, if you noticed, the first beast rises out of the sea (water),  which represented peoples, nations and tongues, a very populated  area, which was Europe. So time and places do have significance. Especially when it comes to prophesy. 
Also Remnant is whats left over isn't It?


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## blazingthru (Mar 28, 2011)

Nymphe said:


> Actually, I am offended by this big block of text due to poor eyesight, but that is my problem. What you are reading in my posts is my passion for everyone to take everything they take into their hearts and brains to the Lord in prayer and wait for the answer. It is very easy to see when someone has not.
> 
> Nothing you have said counters or examines anything anyone in this thread has posted. You can tell us what you think we should think or feel, but God Almighty has the last word and the Scriptures say you are mistaken. So now it is up to you to take this to the Lord to find the truth and He will give you the words to show the rest of us. Yes, it is really that simple.


I will respond to your statements above, If I am telling you what *I *think you should *feel or think* then I should stop, because I don't have a heaven or hell to send anyone and again I don't mean to offend.  Your comments only have me go back and make sure whatever I say is as correct as possible and to admit if I am wrong or am not sure. I posted an article not of my own writing, but I didn't see anything in it that contradicts the scriptures, BUT it doesn't conflict with my life and so I do have to take a step back and view it from another angle.  I  was not going to respond to each statement but you commented on it and so if I can I will.


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## Sharpened (Mar 28, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> My apologies I am not understanding this statement here.



_Let's make it simpler: we actually forsake this world and our very being to allow Christ through His Set-Apart Spirit to rebirth our nature. _

  Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24, Mark 8:34, Mark 10:21, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27, John 1:12-13, John 3:3-8, Romans 7:18, Romans 8:3, and on, and on…   

_When we become a disciple as Yeshua instructed, this will be the result._ 

 You automatically become a remnant in this world, for He and He alone sets us apart for His purposes _(_Matthew 20:16, Matthew 22:14_)._

_The question should be do we believe that He is powerful enough to control His Body to His will? For what I have seen so far in my life, the answer is no!_ 




> *Galatians 2:19*  For though I am dead to the law, that I might live to God.


 
 Religion is evidence that very few trust Jesus to control His Body. We are not all guided to the same things the same way at the same time, so what we think should be happening for someone can become a stumbling block if it contrasts with what God Himself has in store for that person. Our focus should be on Him and keeping ourselves ready (dead to self) when He says, “Do this.” Not man! Remember, we each have to give an account at His throne and nothing—_nothing_ we do matters to Him but our obedience to *His Spirit*, not anything written or human wisdom. This is perfection (maturity) in Christ.



blazingthru said:


> I will respond to your statements above, If I am telling you what *I *think you should *feel or think* then I should stop, because I don't have a heaven or hell to send anyone and again I don't mean to offend.  Your comments only have me go back and make sure whatever I say is as correct as possible and to admit if I am wrong or am not sure. I posted an article not of my own writing, but I didn't see anything in it that contradicts the scriptures, BUT it doesn't conflict with my life and so I do have to take a step back and view it from another angle.  I  was not going to respond to each statement but you commented on it and so if I can I will.



Assuming is not condemning; relax, it's cool. You can address each point I have made, but, like I said, it is easy to tell if it came from the Spirit or not. I would prefer you took these things to the Lord Himself. Can you do that, please? Research, knowledge, good deeds, following commandments and rules_—_none of that saves us. What sets us apart from the world is obedience to the Spirit (yes, the _supernatural_ Spirit of God) within to advance the Kingdom.


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## blazingthru (Mar 29, 2011)

Originally Posted by blazingthru  
I seen this article and it made me think about a few things. Who is talking about the last days?
Ever read the Geneva Bible? I got dozens of links to those receiving prophecy from Him outside of organized religion and the vast majority of it is not good. Want the links?
*The bible alone is the key to prophesy there is no need for anything else. We use world history to prove things that have already come to past.*
Quote:
Who is explaining bible prophesy? 
Those He called to do so right now for this age. I got some links on that, too, ones contrary to popular opinion. Also remember, Jesus said it was the end of the age (aion in Greek) not world.
*Again Prophesy is best coming from the word of God but many churches say it’s a closed book.  
2 Peter 1:19-21 (New King James Version)
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God[c] spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
1 John 2:3-6 (New King James Version)
The Test of Knowing Him

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.* 
Quote:
Who is still following all of the commandments? 
Jesus gave new commandments and we are told they will be written in our hearts. To get locked down by practice does not allow for the flexibility His servants need to get His will done in any situation
*I am not understanding this passage in regards to flexibility, if I have given you the impression that I follow the ordinances then there is a huge mistake, I follow the ones not changed by the blood of Jesus, as we are all called to do.   Yes you are correct they are written on the hearts of those who love him, making it easier for you to follow the laws and desiring to do so. You ever get the feeling you did something wrong?  That’s whats written in your heart, you know you shouldn’t yell at your parents? You have feelings of shame when you do something wrong. So then we know we did something that was against God, but we still need to read and study to learn as much as we can so that we don’t’ have those feelings of shame and we don’t sin against God again. Only how can we know what sin is unless we research and study. Sin is the transgression of the law it is best to find out what is the law so we are careful not to break it. 
Hebrews 3:12-13 (New American Standard Bible)
The Peril of Unbelief
 12(A)Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from (B)the living God. 
 13But (C)encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the (D)deceitfulness of sin. 
When I asked about prophesy in services, I knew it was not the truth I was given because my heart was still seeking. His truth is written on our hearts. We know when we hear it but we turn away from it.  
"Sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.  Sin is breaking God's Ten Commandment law. And since the law of God is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it covers every conceivable sin. It is impossible to commit a sin that is not condemned by at least one of God's Ten Commandments. The commandments cover "the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13. Nothing is left out. Jesus magnified it (Isaiah 42:21) as the perfect guide for right living. For example, Jesus pointed out that "thou shalt not kill" condemns anger "without a cause" (Matthew 5:21, 22) and hatred (1 John 3:15), and that lust is adultery (Matthew 5:27, 28). He says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
*


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## blazingthru (Mar 29, 2011)

Quote:
.How can you throw out one, doesn't the word say if you break one you break them all? 
Jesus said to die to self and to give up everything and follow Him. Have you done that? That is what He commanded, no? What did God Himself tell you to do?
*Yes we are to die to self, which means I put God first, not self. It is his will I am forever seeking not my own.   My everything and your everything has different meanings.  But everything I use to do I no longer do, I no longer feel the same way or have the same desires. Everything has changed.  But honestly no one can change if they are not consistently in the word and if they do not understand what they are reading it gets confusing and difficult. Once you begin to learn Gods’ truth everything in your life begins to change.  Not mans truths but Gods truth and the more you read the more you began to understand Gods’ character. *
Quote:
Prior to 1798 people were being slaughter for what they believed everywhere but in the US. 
The Puritans slaughtered the Quakers in the 1600’s and did many thing Jesus did not tell them to do.
*I was referring to the Papal supremacy and its reach. *
Quote:
Its just something to think about. 
Think about these passages and take them to the Lord in prayer (not man):
Quote:
Jeremiah 31:31-33 Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel [which was scattered], and with the house of Judah. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 

Ezekiel 11:19-20 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh. That they may walk in my statutes, and keep my ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and you shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall you know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, said the LORD.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.

2 Corinthians 3:3 For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the letter of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 
Do you trust The Lord to write His will on your heart? As He stated repeatedly, it is by His Spirit, not words of men. Look at that extra-biblical stuff in that list. The taint of men is rife in it. 
*you will have to help me in seeing the “extra biblical stuff in the List” *

Let us look at this for a minute. Did Jesus not tell us to follow Him?  *Yes, he also said seek and ye shall find, if you seek him with your whole heart. 
•  Deuteronomy 4:29
" But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.

•  1 Chronicles 28:9
"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

•  2 Chronicles 15:2
and he went out to meet Asa and said to him, "Listen to me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin: the LORD is with you when you are with Him And if you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will forsake you.

•  Proverbs 1:28
"Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,

•  Proverbs 8:17
"I love those who love me;And those who diligently seek me will find me.

Proverbs 1:23-33 (New American Standard Bible)

    23"Turn to my reproof,
         Behold, I will (A)pour out my spirit on you;
         I will make my words known to you. 
    24"Because (B)I called and you (C)refused,
         I (D)stretched out my hand and no one paid attention; 
    25And you (E)neglected all my counsel
         And did not (F)want my reproof; 
    26I will also (G)laugh at your (H)calamity;
         I will mock when your (I)dread comes, 
    27When your dread comes like a storm
         And your calamity comes like a (J)whirlwind,
         When distress and anguish come upon you. 
    28"Then they will (K)call on me, but I will not answer;
         They will (L)seek me diligently but they will not find me, 
    29Because they (M)hated knowledge
         And did not choose the fear of the LORD. 
    30"They (N)would not accept my counsel,
         They spurned all my reproof. 
    31"So they shall (O)eat of the fruit of their own way
         And be (P)satiated with their own devices. 
    32"For the (Q)waywardness of the naive will kill them,
         And the complacency of fools will destroy them. 
    33"But (R)he who listens to me shall live securely
         And will be at ease from the dread of evil."*


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## blazingthru (Mar 29, 2011)

Did He not tell us His Guide will help us?  *The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truths, after you have studied the bible. The Holy Spirit will bring those things to mind when need it, that is why we are to study diligently everyday. John 16:13-14 (King James Version)
 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.*
Did he once order us to follow a religion?  Did Jesus say the Kingdom of God is religion? Did He tell anyone to pick a religion or join a church? Isn’t the Church called the bride of Christ?   Does He have the power to cleanse and reform heart and mind? Does He have the power to order us without the Bible in front of us?  *I am not following you here. I believe in the word of God. That is what I am standing on. I believe the word says many will be lost and that we are lost from lack of knowledge. I believe that we are to strive hard to make sure we do not fall off the way and that that way is the truth and the light. I believe that we should help one another while it’s still called today. I believe that Holy Spirit is now sealing Gods chosen people and those are the people who have given up their old ways and adopted the new and is following Christ all the way. Even when it comes to something that doesn’t make sense to them, they do not give up they keep searching for the real truth.  I don’t believe anyone should follow man, I believe that some man are great examples and we can learn from each other for example how to be kinder and more giving and more self sacrificing and putting others (strangers) before ourselves. 
*
If any group claims to have the truth, it lies for none of us knows all about God (1 Corinthians 8:2, 1 Corinthians 13:9). *This does not mean we do not have the truth as God has laid out in his word, will we know all truths no. you can read the bible for a million years and still not learn all the truths within it. But diligently studying will lead you in to the truth of salvation  and the love of God, which is why we read the bible in the first place. * That means no religion is correct; all are wrong! We are supposed to be members of His Ecclesia, the ones called out by God Himself to become subjects in His Kingdom. Obedience to Him is the name of this game and He can order us all by Himself through His Spirit. 
*That’s why we have the scriptures, it’s important to mediate on it night and day. To seal it in our hearts? 
Joshua 1:8
" This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success.  The first church was wrong?????? The remnant church comes from the first church, Acts talks much about the first church and their practices and from history we learn what happen to the first church and the many changes it went through throughout history*.  
No one, no group, no institution can lay claim that they helped save me. Only He gets that glory and praise. He alone guides my steps. He alone teaches and shows what I need to know and share. He alone has me open up the Bible to where I need to go. He alone rewards me for being contrary to this world. He alone prods me back on His narrow path towards Him. He alone gives me dreams and words in His gentle voice. Can you say that or do you give praise to man and intellect?  Have you read that I gave praise to man? Or have you read the scriptures and history. 

My existence alone should make anyone question everything coming through their eyes and ears. How do you explain me then? Is He not great enough to order me without religion? The remnant will know who they are when He calls them, not man’s assumption.

Y*ou don’t have to join a church to become saved, that was not the point either, and in order to grow we need to be a part of the body.  I believe that the article is something to review. Especially now when so many are seeking the truth and really want to know what is going on.  As for as I know I haven’t encouraged anyone to join my church,  its about the truth and what is the truth.  I believe in the Commandments strongly. I think it’s extremely important that the 4th commandment be studied deeply and thoroughly, not be dismissed anymore as being nailed to the cross.  I think it’s very important to know about the state of the Dead, Hell the Mark of the Beast, the sealing of God, Baptism etc., especially because this is where true believers will fall away and be deceived, the questions is why?  How will those strong in Christ the elect fall away 
 Jesus made that point crystal clear. He warned of several things that will trap and destroy Christians: (1) surfeiting, (2) drunkenness, (3) the cares of this life, and (4) sleeping (Luke 21:34; Mark 13:34-36).

A. Surfeiting is overdoing in anything--eating, working, reading, recreation, etc. It upsets balance and destroys clear thinking. It also precludes spending time with Jesus.
B. Drunkenness refers to things that bring on a stupor and give us a distaste for heavenly things. Examples include pornography, illicit sex, evil companions, neglect of Bible study, neglect of prayer, and avoiding church services. Such things cause people to live in an unreal dream world and thus miss out.
C. Cares of this life destroy Christians who become so busy doing perfectly good things that time for Jesus, prayer, study of the Word, witnessing, and attendance of church services are crowded out. In so doing, we take our eyes off the real goal and drown in peripheral matters.
D. Sleeping refers to being spiritually asleep. It may be the biggest problem today. When a person is asleep, he does not know he is asleep. Taking our relationship with Jesus for granted, having a form of godliness with no power, applying all great sermons to others, and refusing to become actively involved in Jesus' work--all these things and many others make sleepwalkers of those who, unless miraculously wakened, will sleep past the moment of truth.
It is my purpose and my desire to only speak the truth as I have read for myself and that I can prove, Now I can’t prove all of history of course I wasn’t there, I can only go by what was reported. Plus I am a true layperson. I don’t have high degrees and can’t elaborate much on certain things I wish I could but who knows in time perhaps God would allow me to do so, but for now. I only wish to speak and share the truth, the truth as written in the word of God and no other.  I wasn’t taught special principles of my church; I have only been taught from the word of God that I follow myself.  I also do my on research and create my own projects.  
*  I think you think when I talk I talk based on religion, but I don't I based my beliefs on the word of God and I can stand by it. However, I am not always able to explain it in a simple way so I do refer to an article or two. Especially when it comes down to difficult passages, Like the Beast in the bible and the nations and for me its simple but its not to everyone and so I have to find something that will explain exactly what I have researched but its all in one place.


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## Sharpened (Mar 29, 2011)

I will never post up anything that does not give meat to believers and then backpedal by saying it is someone else’s writing. I stand by what I place in this forum and have admitted His correction of me. Either you agree with the list or you do not.

When I mentioned the Geneva Bible, it shows in the commentaries who first came up with the theory about who was antichrist, among other things. Check it out for yourself.

What you are saying is that the position of prophet is gone because the Bible is a finished work. That is incorrect. The gift of prophecy is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:28) and part of the ministry to grow babes in Christ to perfection (maturity) (Ephesians 4:11-13). Scriptures can be used to test the spirit behind any given prophecy, just as 2 Peter 1:19-21 stated. Also see Matthew 23:34, Luke 11:49, 1 Corinthians 14:29-39, 1 Timothy 4:14.

Flexibility means not being weight down by man-made practices so His will can be done through you. Missionaries have to adapt to their environment and let the Father guide their steps. Isaiah went naked and barefoot for three years; Hosea was commanded to marry a prostitute; Ezekiel had to eat bread cooked over poop; Jeremiah had to endure abuse and not strike back; Moses lived as an Egyptian; David hung out with criminals and ate the priests’ showbread with them; Elijah killed 400 priests of Ba’al; Saul was ordered to annihilate a ethnic group right down to their livestock, etc. etc. etc. 

OK, the list:

1. The ones who stay on the path to the very end are the remnant and only He knows who they are, not man.

2. Jesus was foretold to be the one who creates the _new covenant_ and what Jesus commands goes. Do you know how many different covenants He has made throughout the Bible? No one is saying the Ten Commandments are dead, but deepened by what Jesus taught. Jesus did His Father’s will on the Sabbath several times, so He earned the right to tell us when to rest—not Saturday, Sunday, but any day or, like my grandmother, everyday. Anyone who is in Christ should be able to see this.

3. I have yet to see any behave like the Apostles did. They trusted the Holy Spirit and demonstrated His Power.

4. That is theory, not fact. No, you do not have to explain; I have done much research on it. All Jesus required was that we stay watchful and listen to the true prophets.

5. Another theory but no “thus saith the Lord” which is just as bad as the pre-tribulation one. People need to seek Him alone on what is what.

6. If the prophet be proven false, then we rebuke. Do we still need prophecy or not?

7. Everyone knows that.

8. Like I said earlier, I have links to others who have looked into it and use the Bible to interpret the meanings. Do you want a few links?

9. If this is true, then this list is moot. Anyone filled by His Spirit will have the Trust always in His heart.

10. What about the Holy Spirit and His ordering of His Body to where He needs them to go? If you are not ordered by the Spirit, you are practicing religion, not advancing the Kingdom.

 11. If people actually understood this, then we would be directed by the Spirit. I see precious little of that.

12. Who defines what is unhealthy? Let Him do His job, thanks.

13. It does not matter what you believe about this.

14. It does not matter what you believe about this.

15. All I need to believe is He created everything and is the One holding this ball of dirt together.

16. Let Him decide that because the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is far more important. See Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5, Acts 10:44-8, Acts 11:16,

17. The union between husband and wife is a model for Christ (God) and His Bride (the spotless, clean overcomers). All believers know this, or should. *shrug*

18. Matthew 9:2-7, Luke 5:18-25, John 14:6, the Lord’s Prayer, etc. We are to go to Him for everything on our own so He knows who we are (Luke 13:27, 2 Timothy 2:19).

  19. It does not matter what you believe about this. I believe there is only one throne in heaven; Jesus is the “right hand” of the Father. That is something others need to seek His answer about.

20. It does not matter what you believe about this. I give (help, money, time, etc.) to whomever He guides me to and do so cheerfully in any amount.

21. A concept not taught in most churches and there will be a price to pay for not getting His sheep prepared. Some will learn this lesson through the “school of hard knocks.”

22. Who cares what others think? Do His will through His Spirit and don’t sweat it. Being insulted is not persecution.

23. Yes, those in Christ will be leaven in the world, salt and light. This list is not His will or Gospel.

The religious, Pharisaical spirit is loaded in this thing. Someone else would have to explain it better than I can, but He Who is the door to salvation is the only One Who can melt the heart of those who refuse to see it. Who was the audience? If it was for those who already follow this, that is useless. If it were for those who do not follow it, it is another bunch of rules dictated by someone who like to use the Scripture as a weapon for his/her own glory.


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## Sharpened (Mar 29, 2011)

> *John 5:39-40* You search the scriptures, for in them you  think you have eternal life; and these are they which﻿ testify to Me.  But you are not willing to come to ME that you may have life.
> 
> *Romans 15:19* Through mighty signs and wonders, by the *power of the Spirit of God*: so that from Jerusalem, and round about to Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
> 
> ...


  I do not know about you, but I have not seen  much power except from the ones He has guided me to along the way. Have  you?

You totally skipped over His Law being written in  the heart. This is pointless. You do not believe He can order His  Kingdom supernaturally and only He can prove that to you. To seek Him  also means to seek His presence. If you were dead to self and sacrificed  your will to Him, you would be encouraging _this_, not rules, for we are _nothing_  without Him. I strongly suggest you do that. I do not care if anyone  believes me or should do this or that. My focus will always be on  getting people to hear the Father for themselves. 

You say He will guide only those who have studied  the Scripture. I know people who God directs in a certain way and then  He guides them to the Scriptures to see what He had them do is true. I  am one of them. The phrase you quoted does not counter that. Biblical  examples: Abraham, Noah, Moses, Enoch, the ignorant He called to be His  disciples, those learning about the Good News, etc. Whatever will people  do without their Bibles if they are running for their lives? Will He  still guide them then? The Word of God is not the Bible, but Jesus  Christ Himself. Jesus > Bible, always.



> _Did he once order us to follow a  religion? Did Jesus say the Kingdom of God is religion? Did He tell  anyone to pick a religion or join a church? Isn’t the Church called the  bride of Christ? Does He have the power to cleanse and reform heart and  mind? Does He have the power to order us without the Bible in front of  us? _
> 
> *I am not following you here. I believe in the  word of God. That is what I am standing on. I believe the word says many  will be lost and that we are lost from lack of knowledge. I believe  that we are to strive hard to make sure we do not fall off the way and  that that way is the truth and the light. I believe that we should help  one another while it’s still called today. I believe that Holy Spirit is  now sealing Gods chosen people and those are the people who have given  up their old ways and adopted the new and is following Christ all the  way. Even when it comes to something that doesn’t make sense to them,  they do not give up they keep searching for the real truth. I don’t  believe anyone should follow man, I believe that some man are great  examples and we can learn from each other for example how to be kinder  and more giving and more self sacrificing and putting others (strangers)  before ourselves.*


 In other words, you cannot answer me and you did  not take this to the Lord in prayer. *sigh* The answers are no, no, no,  yes, yes, and yes. 

Every step we take along the path to Him is laid  out by His Spirit and His Power, not the Bible alone. The Good News is  the starting point, not the Commandments. Even non-believers in the west  know what they are and follow many of them. We are not subject the Law  of Moses; that contract ended at the cross, did it not? Jesus said to  take up His flesh (the Word became flesh, but prior to that it was also  Spirit) and drink His blood (everlasting life).

I never said or implied the first Ecclesia was  wrong; they trusted His Power and Direction alone for they were subjects  of the Kingdom, not members of a man-made assembly. There is a  difference.

Everyone who has the Holy Spirit within them is part of the Body, period! That is not debatable. If He Himself told you _through His Spirit_  to follow this, that or the other, then that is what you follow. Leave  us out of it and leave us to Him. Here is the truth: faith (obedience)  alone through Christ alone and knowing Him are what matters. He can  order your steps if you are willing to surrender everything to Him.  That’s all.

You say you do not speak of religion, but you are a member of one, so what am I to think? It colors what you say and think. It  has a name, meaning its own authority, but is it His authority? I have  no one but Christ; He tells me what to do by Spirit. I will always be  about the Spirit, not the letter. Please, take this to the Lord in  prayer.


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## Crown (Mar 29, 2011)

Nymphe said:


> I will never post up anything that does not give meat to believers and then backpedal by saying it is someone else’s writing. I stand by what I place in this forum and have admitted His correction of me. Either you agree with the list or you do not.
> 
> When I mentioned the Geneva Bible, it shows in the commentaries who first came up with the theory about who was antichrist, among other things. Check it out for yourself.
> 
> ...



I can't read all the posts, some are too dense for my eyes and my poor English brain.

Some believe that there is more than ONE throne in heaven?
I did not know that!!

I am learning every day, but this is sad : more than one throne...

Understanding, not by human doctrines, but by revelation of the Holy Spirit, WHO is the Messiah is the key.


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## blazingthru (Mar 29, 2011)

I read all that you posted and you have your beliefs that is fine. You are entitle to your opinion, I don't think at any time I attack you personally or attack your beliefs, I don't agree with what you have said, because I can't see that it aligns with the scripture. But if this is what you accept then God bless. 

I however will continue my journey and comment and make suggestions and post interesting articles of things I believe that align with the scriptures and not my own personal interpretation or private thoughts or religion.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 29, 2011)

Apostolic, only similar or exactly what was passed down?  If so, protestant only?  But it's supposed to be apostolic (ok, that's how I see it...just sayin').  In America?  Mexico, Canada, Trinidad, Chile?  But in Revelations 12: ""And there appeared a great sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and screamed in the anguish of delivery."  Different levels of meaning in scripture, but Our Lady, Mother of Jesus (capital, sign of respect).  12 stars on her head?  12 Tribes of Israel, 12 Apostles (neat connection) Moon under her feet?  Fr. Saunders explains it better than me and I'm running to get dinner on...but it has something to do with the truth and the church (clothed in the sun) and the moon representing the "transitoriness of temporal things" such that the Church and Our Lady rise above it, to a higher level.  We are clothed in the truth and it never changes.  http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0769.html

"3. Believe in the Bible as the only source of doctrine."  Doctrine or tradition?  Not holy tradition which was handed down and the example of the Jews such that the Church is the succession of that?  That's what the apostles did, passed down tradition and commands from Jesus.  II Thessalonians  2:15  "So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, *whether by word of mouth or by letter*."  Incidentally, this is exactly how the truth was handed down to Moses. Soooo.....um, last question...

"4.Believe in the once only atoning sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross."  What does that mean, exactly?


----------
You whetted my appetite this evening...I'm coming back to read up on the whole thread.  Interesting discussion.  Is this SDA doctrine?


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## Sharpened (Mar 29, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> I read all that you posted and you have your beliefs that is fine. You are entitle to your opinion, I don't think at any time I attack you personally or attack your beliefs, I don't agree with what you have said, because I can't see that it aligns with the scripture. But if this is what you accept then God bless.
> 
> I however will continue my journey and comment and make suggestions and post interesting articles of things I believe that align with the scriptures and not my own personal interpretation or private thoughts or religion.


 Oops, forgot one item: http://newhousefoundation.org/subpage8.html

1564: The French Huguenots established a French colony named Fort Caroline in present day Florida.

1565: Spain built a Spanish Mission at St. Augustine, Florida and took possession of Fort Caroline after murdering the French Huguenots.

So, yeah, the papal reach did hit these shores, but slaughter is slaughter no matter who does it.

Everything I have said does line up with Scripture and posted a ton of it, not opinion. I do not need an organization to teach me anything because of His Spirit within me. Be honest—you could not handle what I have said and are leaning on your own understand instead of His. Whenever I am confused, I take to Him and He gives the answer in many different ways. As I said before, I do not care what people think but I will always encourage freedom in Christ for only He can transform man. Insult away…


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## Guitarhero (Mar 29, 2011)

Well, I'll say that I comprehend some of what SDA believers are seeing.  There is a disconnect of sorts with many christians who do not comprehend the "Old Testament" culture and scripture placed within that historical and cultural context.  So, in a sense, it would seem that christianity has practically come from out of nowhere rather than as a succession from Judaism which was directly mandated by G-d (and allowing the fence laws).  There is a duality:  freedom in Christ and freedom from many of those "old" mandates yet, Christ has not come to change one iota of the "Old Testament."  There is a sacredness and eternal sense of that in what is deemed obsolete.


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> "4.Believe in the once only atoning sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross."  What does that mean, exactly?
> You whetted my appetite this evening...I'm coming back to read up on the whole thread.  Interesting discussion.  Is this SDA doctrine?



     Christ did not come with sin
     offerings, but with a body in which He
     lived a life of perfect obedience. By the
     example of that flesh He has consecrated
     for us a way of true holiness. His victory
     over sin in a body like ours assures that
     we can partake by faith of the same
     victory. “Having therefore, brethren,
     boldness to enter into the holiest by the
      blood of Jesus, By a new and living way,
     which he hath consecrated for us, through
     the veil, that is to say, his flesh. … Let us
     draw near with a true heart in full
     assurance of faith, having our hearts
     sprinkled from an evil conscience.”
     Hebrews 10:19-22.

      His blood ratified the New
     Covenant by which the law is written on
     the heart. This spiritualizes the believer,
     enabling Christ to live out His life of
     obedience within.

      Christ’s unchanging priesthood
     makes available every moment the merits
     of His atoning blood for justification and
     sanctification. He takes away sin by
*cleansing the record of sin from the                   (  You know that all sin  is recorded, everything we do and say is recorded in heaven)
     sanctuary through forgiveness*, and by
     cleansing the hearts of the believers
     through His sanctifying presence.
     “Wherefore He is able also to save them
     to the uttermost that come unto God by
     him, seeing he ever liveth to make
     intercession for them.” Hebrews 7:25.

Paul  speaks of “boldness” and “full assurance” in following our High Priest  into the holiest. Who could not come confidently when the cleansing  effects are spelled out by phrases such as these: “hearts sprinkled from  an evil conscience,” “perfected forever them that are sanctified,” “no  more conscience of sin,” “put away sin,”” purge your conscience from  dead works,” and saved “to the uttermost”?
      If the blood of Christ did not make provision for purging the  conscience and perfecting the worshiper, it would have no advantage over  the ceremonial law of sacrifices. And if no people could be produced by  Christ who would fulfill God’s original requirement of obedience,  Satan’s charges against God would be true. But if it can be proved that  obedience is possible through the power of God, then every sinner will  finally have to acknowledge the justice of God in requiring obedience as  a test of loyalty and love.
      Thank God that provision has been made for the past, present, and  future. The atoning merits of the once-for-all sacrifice of the true  Lamb are still being extended to such as are being sanctified and will  continue until our High Priest steps out from the heavenly sanctuary.  “Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may  obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” Hebrews 4:16.  Right now, as you read these words, Jesus is pleading His blood for you.  By faith, follow Him through the veil so that He can blot out your sins  and deliver you from sin’s power! 

** I am not a minister, I don't have the deep study required for certain questions but I do know the basics, I know we cannot assume we have all the answers to anything, we can only hope and pray we are on the right track and continue to study and pray and ask God for wisdom to make sure we are. *


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

Nymphe said:


> Oops, forgot one item: http://newhousefoundation.org/subpage8.html
> 
> 1564: The French Huguenots established a French colony named Fort Caroline in present day Florida.
> 
> ...




I could not give my honest opinion about the things you have said because I don't believe they align with scripture, sure you  may have some of the facts regarding the wars and so forth I wasn't' there I don't know who was here and who was not. thats what the text say and I copied it. My opinion was it did not reach here in America, I was evidently wrong on that part, nor do I care about that either, I don't it has nothing to do with our salvation and being in the correct Church, The true church came out of the earth, The US was very new then and not heavenly populated and that portion and others make it possible to believe its regrowth I believe all above about what is the correct Church. ALL OF IT. You have gave your own personal opinion about what is what above not from scripture. I haven't given my personal opinion, because I know it matters not what I feel or think, What matters is are you getting the correct teaching and if your teaching yourself how can you?  Who's to say. The money we earn on our jobs or from wherever is a blessing and we are to be mindful of that, we do have to give an account as to how we spend the money, there are examples of this in the bible (the Talents) everything that is in the bible is for our example and our teachings, and our growth. So I need to respond to each statement in the List, because its important. You don't have to comment to me any more its your choice but we will not agree and I am okay with you not agreeing with me, nor am I arguing with you.


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

*The Woman Symbolizes the Church *
     Revelation 12 is basically the narrative account of a beautiful, sun-clad woman and her descendants. “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars” (Revelation 12:1).
     Here we are introduced to one of the most familiar symbols in the Bible. In both the Old and the New Testaments, God represents His people by a woman. As the bridegroom, He is married to the church. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:2).
     All through the Bible we can follow the record of this symbolism. God said in the Old Testament, “I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman” (Jeremiah 6:2). And again, “Say unto Zion, Thou art my people” (Isaiah 51:16). The church is called Zion and God compares it with a beautiful woman. In the Old Testament, Israel was the chosen people so often portrayed as being married to God.      In the New Testament, the true Israel of God is no longer a nation but a church composed of Jews and Gentiles who receive Christ as their Savior. Therefore, the woman of Revelation 12 flashes us the picture-story of the church at the time of Christ. The clothing of sunlight typifies the glorious New Covenant of grace, and the twelve stars represent the twelve apostles. The moon under her feet indicates the fading glory of the Old Covenant in the presence of the true Lamb of God.


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads . . . and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne” (Revelation 12:2-5).
     Who is this man-child destined to rule all nations and who was caught up to heaven? Only one person can meet this description—Jesus Christ. And who does the dragon represent, who tried to kill Christ at His birth? It was Herod, the representative of Rome, who sent out the order for all babies of two years and under to be slaughtered. Ordinarily, the dragon is used as a symbol of Satan, but in this case, the devil was working so closely with the Roman power to kill Jesus that the dragon also symbolizes Rome.
     How did Jesus escape the diabolical decree of Herod? Joseph and Mary were warned of the danger in a dream and fled to Egypt with the infant. Later, after the death of the tyrant, they returned and settled in the town of Nazareth.
     Even though the devil was foiled in his initial plot to kill Jesus, he did not abandon his purpose. Repeatedly, he sought to take the life of Jesus, and finally, he managed to bring Him to that mockery of a trial where He was tortured, crucified, and buried. But the grave could not contain the Son of God, and on the third day He burst out of the tomb. Later, He ascended to His Father in heaven.


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

Persecution of the Church 
     With no direct access to Jesus, the dragon (Rome) now turned his anger against the followers of Christ, the church: “And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child” (Revelation 12:13).
     These words provide only a tiny hint of the horror of the violence which broke forth against the apostolic church. Practically all the early disciples and church leaders were martyred for their faith. Cruel pagan emperors turned the sporting arenas and coliseums into theaters of death for those who followed the true gospel.
     Soon pagan Rome yielded to papal Rome, and the persecutions continued with even greater force. Millions died under the terrible inquisitions which sought to eradicate all opposition to the papal system. Historians estimate that during the Dark Ages more that fifty million people laid down their lives rather than yield up their Protestant faith.
     But let’s follow the tragic story in our prophetic outline. Revelation 12:14 tells us what the true church did as the pressures of persecution built up to a climax: “And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”
     In order to escape extinction, the faithful Protestant refugees fled back into the Alpine mountains and valleys holding onto the true doctrine delivered by Jesus. Another book of Acts could be written about the heroism of the Waldenses, Huguenots, and Albigenses who refused to surrender their faith during those centuries of fierce oppression. God fought for them, and sometimes the pursuing armies of Rome were cut off by mysterious avalanches and rock slides. At other times the mountain streams were reddened by the blood of those faithful ones who sealed their devotion to the truth with their lives. The Revelation prophecy gives a symbolic picture of the desperate attempts made to wipe out those minority Christians who were now in hiding for their very survival: “And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood” (Revelation 12:15).      How long was the true church to remain out of sight in the wilderness? The prophecy declares it would be for “a time, times, and half a time.” How mysterious! What is meant by this strange description of the time period involved? When would it end? The answer is found in verse 6: “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”
     Now the picture begins to clear up. One verse says the woman was in the wilderness for 1,260 days and the other verse says she was there for “a time, times, and half a time.” These two periods are equal. This means that a “time” has to be a year in prophetic symbolism, “times” is two years, and “half a time” is half a year. When we add up the one, the two, and the half, we get three and a half years. And that is equal to exactly 1,260 days, using the Bible reckoning of 30 days to the month.
     There is one more principle of prophetic interpretation to take into account here. In symbolic Bible prophecy a day always stands for a year. You will find the key for that principle in Ezekiel 4:6: “I have appointed thee each day for a year.” It is laid down elsewhere in these words: “. . . forty days, each day for a year” (Numbers 14:34).
     Please note that this applies only to symbolic prophecy, and cannot be read into other portions of the Scripture. A day is used for a year only in the setting of an obvious prophetic context. This places the woman in her wilderness hideaway for the full period of 1,260 literal years.
     Our conclusion must be, then, that the true church could not appear in the world until the end of the 1,260 years. Did such a thing happen to the true people of God? How long did the papal power continue to suppress the true doctrines by the exercise of her religio-political authority?
     Here is a fascinating point of history. In a.d. 538 a decree by Emperor Justinian went into effect which assigned absolute spiritual preeminence to the church of Rome. Gradually, this religious tyranny drifted into union with civil powers until eventually kings were forced to seek permission from the pope before they could begin to rule. This authority remained in force until the year 1798 when Europe was rocked by the French Revolution. In the subsequent rebellion of the oppressed peasants against the privileged clergy, the pope was captured in 1798. The papal property was confiscated, and the French Directory government decreed that there would be no more Bishop of Rome. The oppressive rule of the papacy ended exactly 1,260 years after it was inaugurated in A.D. 538.


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

Three Marks of the True Church 
     This brings us to a most important observation: THE TRUE CHURCH COULD NOT APPEAR IN THE WORLD UNTIL AFTER THE YEAR 1798. It was to remain in hiding until the end of the 1,260 years, and that “wilderness” period ended in 1798. We have before us now one of the most amazing marks of identification for the true church. It is not based on some emotional feeling or upon some strained interpretation of a single Bible text. It is rooted in a prophetic revelation of a specific time period which can be verified by scores of historical records. The woman (church) simply could not make her appearance until the inhibiting powers of papal opposition had been taken out of the way. That prophesied event took place in 1798, and the truth which had been clothed in sackcloth now began to emerge from obscurity, soon to appear as the glorious remnant of the woman.
     Now we are brought to an actual description of the woman as she would appear before the world sometime after the year 1798: “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Revelation 12:17).
     This text is one of the most crucial to be found in the entire Bible. Nowhere is there a more concise description of the last-day remnant of the original apostolic faith as it was preserved through the ages. Here is an actual verbal definition of the true church for the present day. It is so important that we are going to analyze every word in order to extract the full meaning. If the true church can be discovered at all in the Bible, this will be the verse to reveal it.
     “AND THE DRAGON . . .” Who is the dragon? There can be no question on this point. In Revelation 12:9 the dragon is called “the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world.”
     “WAS WROTH . . .” What does that mean? “Wroth” is the Old English word for “angry.” It simply means that Satan was angry. Whom was he angry with? “WROTH WITH THE WOMAN . . .” Who was the woman? We have already found that she is the true apostolic church, representing the great, original teachings of Jesus.      “AND WENT TO MAKE WAR WITH THE REMNANT OF HER SEED . . .” Here a new word is introduced into the picture. Satan is going to fight against the REMNANT of the true church. What is a remnant? It is the last end piece on a bolt of cloth. It is exactly like the first piece that came off the bolt, but it happens to be at the very end and is always a small piece.
     What does this tell us about the remnant of the woman? It is the last part of the true church, at the very end of time, which will be holding the exact same doctrines as did the early, apostolic church. But let’s read on.
     “WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. . .” What commandments would this be referring to? This designates the great moral law written by the finger of God on tables of stone. The Ten Commandments reflect the character of God, reveal His will for all His creatures, and form the basis for all morality and true worship.
     Here we are confronted with the second intriguing mark of identification of the true church. Not only must it arise some time after the year 1798, but on the authority of the Word of God, it would have to be keeping ALL the Ten Commandments of God. 
     But now let’s finish reading this fantastic verse. “AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.” Here is another characteristic of the true remnant. Not only will this last-day church arise after 1798 and keep all the Ten Commandments, but it will have the testimony of Jesus. But what is the testimony of Jesus? That is an unfamiliar phrase, and we need more than human wisdom to uncover its meaning
     Notice how the Bible specifically defines this expression for us. If this text truly contains the heart of ultimate truth for us, the Word of God would have to clarify every part of it. The definition is provided by the word of an angel sent all the way from heaven to explain it to John. “I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10).
     There it is! We know now without a shadow of doubt that the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. And this is the third great mark of identity for the last-day true church!
     Let me ask you something: Does a spirit of excitement rise up in you as these plain biblical statements zero in on the mostsought-after secret in the Word of God? We are getting closer and closer to identifying the special people of God in our day and their special message. And we are doing it by allowing the Bible to make the identification. We have not fabricated a single one of these three definitive characteristics. No one can honestly challenge their application to the end-time church of Jesus Christ. That remnant church will have to possess all three of these biblical tags of identity:

     1. ARISE AFTER 1798
     2. KEEP ALL THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
     3. HAVE THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

A Fourth Identifying Characteristic 
     We have found this church to be the last, end-piece of historic truth. It will be proclaiming the final message of God just before Jesus returns. In fact, if God has any kind of special counsel or warning for the world at the end of time, He would surely give that message through His last-day remnant church. I think we can all see the logic of this conclusion.
     Does God indeed have such a message, and is it identified clearly in the Bible? Jesus indicated that the proclaiming of a certain definite truth would immediately precede the conclusion of human history. Listen to His words: “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come” (Matthew 24:14).
     The last sign of Christ’s coming will be a worldwide preaching of the “gospel of the kingdom.” After that, the end will come. Now follow me closely. John the Revelator actually saw in vision the fulfillment of Christ’s words. He wrote, “And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice . . .” (Revelation 14:6, 7).
     The next few verses describe precisely what that special last proclamation of the gospel will consist of. Then immediately John said, “And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle . . . and he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped” (Revelation 14:14-16).
     Did you catch that? The end comes just as soon as this particular “gospel” message has gone to every nation on earth. Jesus said the same thing, “this gospel . . . shall be preached in all the world . . . and then shall the end come.”
     I submit to you that whatever this message is, it has to be the most urgent and compelling one that human ears have ever heard. Both John and Jesus testify that upon completion it will usher in the glorious kingdom of Christ.
     Can we know what that final warning will contain? John spelled it out so simply that none need be in doubt. “Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come” (Revelation 14:7). Notice that a part of this last call of God will be announcing that the judgment has already started. “IS COME,” not “will come.” We must look and listen for the preaching of such a pre-advent judgment message to all nations of the earth.
     The next part of the first angel’s message is this: “And worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of water” (Revelation 14:7). Does that sound familiar? It should, for it is quoted almost word for word right from the fourth commandment of the decalogue, which strongly indicates that the Sabbath will be a part of the “gospel” proclamation which must go to the whole world just before the end.
     How do you worship God as the Creator? Right in the heart of the Ten Commandments God wrote the answer: “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it” (Exodus 20:11).
     True worship stems from a recognition of God’s creative power and authority, and the Sabbath is God’s own established sign that He is the maker of everything. Over and over throughout the Bible God claims worship BECAUSE He created all things. “thou are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: FOR THOU HAST CREATED ALL THINGS.” (Revelation 4:11).
     God challenged the false gods repeatedly because they could not create. “The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth . . . He hath made the earth by his power” (Jeremiah 10: 11, 12). “God himself . . . formed the earth and made it . . . I am the Lord; and there is none else” (Isaiah 45:18).
     The Sabbath was instituted by God as a great reminder-sign of His sovereign authority as the only God to be worshiped. The Creator set in motion the arbitrary cycle of the seven-day week to mark off the true Sabbath, so that the world would be without excuse in knowing whom to worship and when. Thus the first angel’s message called for men to “worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea”—a call to true Sabbath-keeping.
     The second and third angels’ messages described by John can be summarized briefly: “Babylon is fallen . . . If any man worship the beast . . . and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God” (Revelation 14:8-10). Contrary to the opinion of many, this plain, bold preaching of the beast message is included in the everlasting gospel of God’s kingdom. Even warnings against the mark of the beast will be heralded to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. THEN THE END WILL COME!
     We are now prepared to add a fourth characteristic to the list of three others. The true remnant church of the last days will surely be used of God to carry His final warning message to all inhabitants of planet earth. That message will include (a) the judgment hour is come, (b) true Sabbath worship, (c) the fall of spiritual Babylon, and (d) the mark of the beast.
     This completes the amazing array of specific characteristics of the present day’s true church:


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

1. ARISES AFTER 1798
     2. KEEPS ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS
     3. HAS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY
     4. PREACHES THE MESSAGE OF THREE
          ANGELS (Revelation 14) ON A
          WORLD-WIDE SCALE 
     Could any thinking person be indifferent toward what we have discovered thus far? We have in our hands right now the key to unlock one of the most fantastic spiritual secrets in the world. God has concentrated all the clues in this one, tremendous, prophetic chapter of Revelation. Look at the marks of identification. This is God’s list, not mine. I simply lifted them from the inspired pages of God’s Book. What do they tell us about the true church today?
     First of all, it could not have arisen before 1798. This eliminates most of the great popular Protestant churches of the world. Practically all of them were formed before 1798. Secondly, it would have to be a church which keeps all the Ten Commandments. At first glance, this would seem to be a very poor definitive test for discovering which church is right. Surely all of them would teach and practice obedience to the great moral law of God— or would they? The fact is that very few contemporary denominations even lay claim to keeping all the Ten Commandments. Most of them admit freely that they do not observe the seventh-day Sabbath required by the fourth commandment. They observe the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath.


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

Yet we have just discovered that the true church will be distinguished for keeping the commandments. Mark it down: according to the clear teaching of the Bible, no church could be the remnant of the woman unless it keeps the seventh-day Sabbath as well as all the other nine commandments. Suddenly, we see the vast majority of those who passed the first test failing to meet the second. 
     But now we move on to the third requirement of the prophecy. The last-day remnant church must have the spirit of prophecy manifested in it. What does that mean? Without doubt this particular flag of identity is the most important one on our list. We shall discover that this involves more than merely understanding and preaching prophecy.
     Finally, this special church will be distinguished by the unique message it proclaims to all nations on earth—the judgment is begun, the seventh day is the Sabbath, Babylon is fallen, and warnings against the mark of the beast. 
     Before we say more about any modern church system which might match these inspired characteristics, let us return to identifying point number three, which still has not been fully explained.


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

The Spirit of Prophecy 
     Under the inspiration of God, John declared that the remnant of the woman would have the “testimony of Jesus.” Since that expression is somewhat ambiguous, John later gave a clarification which still leaves much to be desired. He said simply, “The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10).
     At least this is moving in the right direction, but we must now discover what John means by that expression, “spirit of prophecy.” Whatever it is, it ranks high with God, because He designates it as one of the ways by which to recognize His true church in these last days.
     The picture begins to clear up when we examine the full context of the statement. An angel appears to John, and John falls upon the ground in awe and admiration. Said the Revelator, “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God; for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10).      In this verse, please notice who is described as having the testimony of Jesus, or the spirit of prophecy. Only John’s “brethren” are identified as having it. Now we must seek for some further information as to who John’s brethren were. The Word does not fail us. In Revelation 22:8, 9 John repeats the story of the angel and adds a little more detail. “And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets . . . worship God.” John’s brethren were the prophets, and they alone are said to have the spirit of prophecy.
     Suddenly, the whole puzzle falls into place. The only ones who had the spirit of prophecy were the prophets themselves. If just knowing prophecy and preaching it could be called the “spirit of prophecy,” then many modern teachers and evangelists might qualify. But the Bible makes it exceedingly clear that it is the actual ability to prophesy. In other words, it is the gift of prophecy. Only the prophets had it.
     This fact is supported by the apostle Paul. “That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ (spirit of prophecy) was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 1:5-7).
     Here the testimony of Jesus is called a “gift” instead of the “spirit” of prophecy. And the implication is very strong that the gift will be in operation at the return of our Savior.
     With this inspired insight from Paul we are back on familiar ground again. We have no problem with the term “gift of prophecy.” The New Testament epistles are filled with references to all the gifts of the Spirit, including the gift of prophecy. Paul told the church at Ephesus just how and when the gifts were bestowed: “Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men” (Ephesians 4:8).
     Little comment is needed on this. It is a well-known fact that when Jesus returned to heaven He left certain special “gifts” or abilities with His people on earth. In fact, they are named: “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers” (Ephesians 4:11).
     For what reason did Jesus endow certain ones in the church with these appropriate spiritual gifts? “For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ” (Ephesians 4:12). He did it to build up the believers and strengthen the church. These gifts were to mature and perfect the leaders of the body of Christ as they sought to edify the members.
     The next verse tells exactly how long those gifts would be needed in the church. “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the nature of the fullness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:13).
     If language has any meaning at all, these words convey one idea very clearly. All the gifts which Christ placed with His church were to continue operating until the very end of time. They would be needed to bring the church to perfection and to the fullness of Christ’s stature.
     Dare we ask the next obvious question? Where are these gifts today? If they were intended by our Lord to do their sanctifying work right down to the end of time, then they should all be seen operating in the churches around us. Let’s inquire if they are. Do we find teachers in most churches today? The answer is yes. What about pastors and evangelists? Practically all denominations have them. What can we say about apostles? Since this word literally means “missionaries,” (coming from a Greek word meaning “one who is sent”), again we can say that most modern churches qualify on this particular gift.
     So far, so good. But we have one more inquiry—what about prophets? From most religious quarters there is no ready reply to this question. Practically no church claims that such a thing has ever been a part of its ministry.
     But why? If all the other gifts are necessary, why should prophets not be necessary as well? It was certainly counted so in the early church. In fact, all the spiritual gifts were very much in evidence, according to the book of Acts. “Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon . . .” (Acts 13:1). Here we have evidence that two of the gifts, teachers and prophets, were a part of the church at Antioch. Then in Acts 21:9 we read that a “man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.” Notice that these four women from one family were appointed by the Spirit to be prophetesses. They had the spirit of prophecy.


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

Why Did Prophets Disappear
from the Church? 
     It is obvious that all the gifts were operating equally in the apostolic age and immediately afterward. But why did the gift of prophecy seem to drop out of sight after two or three hundred years into the Christian era? We do not have the same record of it through the ages as we do the other gifts. Why don’t we find prophets in all the churches of today along with pastors, teachers, etc.?
     We dare not avoid the question as so many millions of Christians are currently doing. The Word of God meets the issue head-on and pulls no punches in the process. It is easy to see why most churches try to ignore the absence of this gift in their midst, especially when we discover the reason for its absence.
     That post-apostolic period is not the first time that the spirit of prophecy had been removed from among God’s people. The truth is that God was dealing with the church then in the same way He had always dealt with His people. All through the Old Testament God led and instructed them by two divine agencies—the law and the prophets. Through the prophet Jeremiah God spoke to Israel, “If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you, To hearken to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I sent unto you . . . Then will I make this house like Shiloh, and will make this city a curse to all the nations of the earth” (Jeremiah 26:4-6).
     THE LAW AND PROPHETS! The two go together. Not only do they refer to the writings of Scripture, but they also refer to the two means of divine guidance. “Keep my law and hear my prophets” was the requirement of God. And the sacred record indicates that if they rejected one of those divine agencies, God would remove the other also, because they were actually rejecting His leadership. On numerous occasions the children of Israel turned away from the law of God, only to find the prophetic voice silenced as well.
     Jeremiah wrote, “The law is no more; her prophets also find no vision from the LORD” (Lamentations 2:9). Ezekiel put it this way: “Then shall they seek a vision of the prophet; but the law shall perish from the priest, and counsel from the ancients” (Ezekiel 7:26). The wise man laid down the very same principle: “Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he” (Proverbs 29:18).
     In times of open disobedience of His law, God used the prophets only to rebuke and to call back, not for counsel or guidance. When they turned from the law, they understood that they were also forfeiting the only other avenue by which they could receive divine direction. In his apostasy Saul cried out, “God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams” (1 Samuel 28:15).
     We have a perfect example of this in Ezekiel 20:3 when the people came to inquire after God’s counsel. “Son of man, speak unto the elders of Israel, and say unto them, Thus saith the LORD God; Are ye come to enquire of me? As I live, saith the LORD God, I will not be enquired of by you.” Why would He not answer them in this case? Verses 11-13 give the answer: “And I gave them my statutes, and showed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.”


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## blazingthru (Apr 1, 2011)

Surely we can see that the reason God gave no divine direction was because they _had forsaken His law and had broken His Sabbath. It was the violation of the fourth commandment which especially provoked the displeasure of God.
     Now we are prepared to deal with the question of prophets in the New Testament, and why they disappeared after two or three centuries. What happened to God’s law at the very same time the gift of prophecy disappeared from the church? The history of that early period shows that the Sabbath was set aside in favor of the pagan day of the sun. A disgraceful compromise with heathen sun-worship led to an open rejection of the true seventh-day Sabbath. And when this happened, God did exactly what He had always done before when His people turned from His holy law; He withdrew the guidance of the spirit of prophecy. Prophets disappeared from the church.      This brings us face-to-face with an exciting and challenging question. Is there reason to believe that when the church restores the law and begins to observe the Sabbath again, that God will also restore the gift of prophecy to the church? This leads us right back to that dynamic prophecy of Revelation 12 and God’s description of the true remnant. Now, for the first time, we can see the full significance of that seventeenth verse: “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
     Do you see it? The law, so long neglected, is right back where it belongs—in the church. And hand-in-hand with the law is the testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy. Think of it! The law and the prophets get back together again in the last remnant piece of God’s true apostolic church! All the gifts are again operating as they did in the days before the apostasy.
     Remember that a remnant has to be exactly like the original except that it is on the very end, and it is a small piece. This fantastic prophecy reveals that there will be an end- time restoration of the faith of the apostles. The same Sabbath will be restored. The same gifts of the spirit will be manifested, and all the great apostolic doctrines will be stripped of the effects of 1,260 years of papal distortion.
     A church, called the remnant, must appear on the scene some time after 1798. It will restore the foundation of many generations by keeping the Sabbath, the same one that Jesus made for man during creation week, and the same Sabbath He observed when He was on the earth. In that church will be manifested the true gift of prophecy. Under the anointing of unusual spiritual blessing and power that remnant church will carry the special last warning message of Revelation 14 to all the countries in the world. As we have already discovered, this glorious gospel of the three angels includes the present-hour judgment, the Sabbath, the fall of Babylon, and the beast message.
     This church is identified again by John in these words: “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus” (Revelation 14:12). Do not overlook the fact that these commandment-keeping saints are empowered to do what they do only by trusting Jesus. When you find them, they will not be boasting of their righteousness, or depending on their good works to save them. Above all people they will have a loving, personal relationship with the Savior they worship. Their obedience will be based solely upon the merits of Christ’s imputed and imparted righteousness. They will keep the commandments because they have been saved by grace and not to gain any favor with God.
     By this time you are probably in a state of excited curiosity as to whether any church in existence can meet the incredible conditions laid down in the Bible. Many claim to be the true church, but their claims are not based upon the requirements of the Word of God. Only those who fit the four specific marks outlined in the book of Revelation can be qualified for consideration. Just suppose we could find only one church in the world today which meets all these biblical tests. Could we expect it to be a perfect church with flawless members in it? On the contrary, it would surely be composed of average men and women, subject to the same failings as all other human beings. It would have to be a comparatively small church to meet the criteria of “remnant.” Jesus said the way of truth was narrow and “few there be that find it” (Matthew 7:14). Again He declared, “And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man” (Luke 17:26). None should be deceived by trusting great numbers, the majority. The saved will be comparable to the eight souls taken into the ark at the time of the great flood. Truth has never been popular, and it will be less so in the final age of sensual pleasure and materialism. The remnant church will not be found among the great, popular churches with their indulgent life-styles. Said Jesus, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me” (Matthew 16:24).
     Paul’s counsel was: “Come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord” (2 Corinthians 6:17). To Titus he wrote, “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly . . . a peculiar people, zealous of good works” (Titus 2:11-14).
     These and many other related verses seem to indicate that the true church of the last days will be looked upon by the world in the same manner that Jesus and His followers were esteemed in their day. Since the remnant is merely an extension of the great original, it will be despised by the majority, counted as peculiar, and finally, like the early church, as worthy of death. The book of Revelation exposes a diabolical plan of the end-time “beast” power to enforce a mark on every individual, and those who will not receive that mark will be condemned to death. As you might suspect at this point, those who resist that beast mark will be those who “keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus” (Revelation 14:12). In other words, the remnant church.
     Again, it must be emphasized that all those who belong to the remnant church will not necessarily be saved. Like all other churches it consists of ordinary people who must maintain a constant saving relationship with Jesus Christ. It is undoubtedly true that there will be people saved and lost out of all denominations and sects. Every person will be judged on the basis of revealed truth, and how he obeyed what he knew. Members of the remnant church will have great light, and they will be judged accordingly. Many will fail the test, because they depend on their knowledge of the truth rather than the saving merits of Christ’s righteousness. This is why it is altogether possible for many even in the “remnant” church to be lost. Others who have not so great light will be accepted if they know Jesus and walk in all the light that has been revealed.
     But after making those observations, we must also concede that God has a special church with a special message which is designated as the “remnant” of the woman. It will appear near the end, holding the same doctrines as did the apostolic church, keeping all the Ten Commandments (including the Sabbath), having the gift of prophecy, and preaching Revelation 14 to the entire world.


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## Guitarhero (Apr 1, 2011)

blazingthru said:


> Why Did Prophets Disappear
> from the Church?
> It is obvious that all the gifts were operating equally in the apostolic age and immediately afterward. But why did the gift of prophecy seem to drop out of sight after two or three hundred years into the Christian era? We do not have the same record of it through the ages as we do the other gifts. Why don’t we find prophets in all the churches of today along with pastors, teachers, etc.?
> ..............................
> That post-apostolic period is not the first time that the spirit of prophecy had been removed from among God’s people. The truth is that God was dealing with the church then in the same way He had always dealt with His people. All through the Old Testament God led and instructed them by two divine agencies—the law and the prophets. Through the prophet Jeremiah God spoke to Israel, “If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you, To hearken to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I sent unto you . . . Then will I make this house like Shiloh, and will make this city a curse to all the nations of the earth” (Jeremiah 26:4-6).




Because the Word was made flesh, the incarnation of G-d in Jesus Messiah?  The Divine Presence in the Temple still there but in the eucharist???  We have Him directly.


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## blazingthru (Apr 4, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> Because the Word was made flesh, the incarnation of G-d in Jesus Messiah?  The Divine Presence in the Temple still there but in the eucharist???  We have Him directly.



I am not certain what the Eucharist is, I use to know but I have forgotten, I think this explains about the blood. I will follow up with this because there is more to add. 


the  Old Covenant rituals of animal sacrifices could not make people *stop  sinning*. In Hebrews 9:9 he wrote that these things “could not make him  that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the _conscience_.” In contrast, he declared that the blood of Christ, because of His spotless life, could “purge your _conscience_ from dead works to serve the living God.” Verse 14.
      Now chapter ten opens on the very same note. “For the law having a  shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of things, _can never_ with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually _make the comers thereunto perfect._  For then would they not have ceased to be offered? Because that the  worshipers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But  in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every  year.” Hebrews 10:1-3.
      Here Paul exposes the greatest weakness of the Levitical priesthood  with its constant round of sin offerings. There was never an end to the  process, because people were never empowered to stop sinning. Each Day  of Atonement the sanctuary had to be cleansed, and there was a  “remembrance again made of sins every year.” Verse 3. Had there been any  true purging and perfecting of the worshiper, there would have been an  end of bringing sin offerings also. “For it is not possible that the  blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. Wherefore. … ” Hebrews  10:4, 5. That word “wherefore” indicates “for this reason.”
      For what reason? For the reason that sin offerings could not take sin out of people’s lives. “_Wherefore_ when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me.” Verse 5.
      These verses contain the most crucial message of the book of  Hebrews. They assure us that Jesus came into this world because He never  sinned. He would do what no animal sacrifice could accomplish. He would  “take away sin” by living a perfect life of obedience in the body of  flesh prepared for His entrance into the human family. His life was  characterized by total submission to the will of His Father, and the  psalmist defines that will to be the law of God written on the heart. By  that will (obedience to the law), Christ was able to offer Himself as a  perfect sin offering to the Father, thus securing sanctification for  us. “Offering for sin thou wouldest not ... which are offered by the  law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the  first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are  sanctified.” Verses 8-10.
      Let us ask, what is the “first” that was taken away? It was the  sacrifices offered “by (or according to) the law”—the ceremonial law of  shadows and types. What is the “second” that He establishes? According  to our verse, the will of God. “Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.” What  is that will? “*I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is  within my heart.” Psalm 40:8.* His will is the law, written in the heart.  In contrast to the never-ending cycle of sinning and confessing, Jesus  came to do away with sin. In His body of flesh He rendered perfect  obedience to His Father, opening a way, through the veil of His flesh,  for us to obtain total victory over sin also.
      Paul continues, “By the which will (the law in our hearts) _we are sanctified_  through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And  every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same  sacrifices, *which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God. ... For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are (being) sanctified.” Hebrews 10:10-14.*
      Here the great superiority of the New Covenant is dramatically  asserted. By means of the atoning death of Jesus the law of God is  written on the fleshly tables of the heart, making a perfect  sanctification accessible to all. The contrast is between the continual  yearly sacrifices that could never take away sin or make the worshipers  perfect, and “the offering” of the body of Jesus “once for all” which  can indeed take away sin and make us perfect. “For the law made nothing  perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw  nigh unto God.” Hebrews 7:19. That “better hope,” of course, is the  atoning efficacy of the better sacrifice—the blood of Jesus. And what or  whom did it make perfect? “By the which _we_ draw nigh unto God.”
      The clinching argument on perfection is presented in Hebrews 13:20,  21. “Now the God of peace ... through the blood of the everlasting  covenant, Make _you perfect _in every good work to _do his will_,  working in you that which is well-pleasing in his sight, through Jesus  Christ.” And what is His will? “For this is the will of God, even your  sanctification.” 1 Thessalonians 4:3. 
     Some people are afraid of that word “perfect,” but Paul did not  hesitate to declare the mighty power of the gospel to save to the  uttermost. No one can read the book of Hebrews intelligently without  hearing it repeatedly. Sometimes it is referred to as “perfecting” the  believer; at other times, as “purging the conscience,” or “sanctifying”  the worshiper. Some Christians reject the idea that the death of Jesus  provided sanctification. They believe sanctification to be a totally  different work, accomplished by the Holy Spirit following justification.  However, the writer of Hebrews certainly had no such view of  righteousness by faith. He constantly connected the blood atonement to  the work of sanctification. “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might _sanctify_ the people _with his own blood_, suffered without the gate.” Hebrews 13:12. Again in Hebrews 10:10, “By the which will we are _sanctified_ through the _offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all_.” Then in Hebrews 10:29 Paul referred to “the _blood_ of the covenant, wherewith he was _sanctified_.” In Hebrews 6:1 he wrote, “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto _perfection_; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works.”
      Lest anyone should relate this doctrine of total victory over sin  to some kind of “holy flesh” doctrine, we should hasten to add this  footnote: all the sanctifying and perfecting available to sinful human  beings is received as a gift from God and is made possible only through  the life and death of Jesus. His sinless life and atoning death is _imputed_ to the believer to justify him for sins committed, but His victorious life is also _imparted_  to the Christian to keep him from falling into sin. The work of our  great High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary is to minister both of these  glorious requirements through His mediatorial office.
      With Paul, we concur that “in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no  good thing.” Romans 7:18. But we also agree with his words a few lines  later, “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the  flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for  sin, condemned sin in the flesh: *That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” Romans 8:3, 4.*
      The word “righteousness” here is the Greek work “dikaima” which  means “just requirements.” Thus, the requirement of the law can be met  in the believer only because Christ lived a perfect life in the same  flesh. This is not referring to imputed righteousness but to the actual  fulfillment of the law’s requirements. This is definitely  sanctification, or imparted righteousness.      The author of Hebrews  establishes the fundamental necessity of Christian perfection by the  statement that if “perfection were (possible) by the Levitical  priesthood ... What further need was there that another priest should  rise after the order of Melchisedec … ?” Hebrews 7:11. The need existed  because the old system had failed to perfect the worshipers, and if  Christ had not provided for perfection, it would have been no  improvement over the sacrifice of animals. It is that power of total  victory over sin which made the priesthood of Christ superior to that of  Aaron. Were sanctification not included in the mediation of Jesus, it  would provide exactly what the earthly shadow provided and nothing more.
      We have before us now three reasons why the New Covenant can take away sin and make the “comers thereunto perfect.”


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## blazingthru (Apr 4, 2011)

repeated by mistake


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## blazingthru (Apr 4, 2011)

What is the Testimony of Jesus?

Revelation shows us that the remnant Church will follow the Ten Commandments and have the testimony of Jesus. What does this mean?

It needs to be noted that this says the testimony of Jesus and not the testimony about Jesus. Therefore it is *speaking of the words of Jesus* and not what people have spoken about Him.

Jesus tells us clearly that He was sent to earth by God. John 8:42 “Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.” He also made it apparent that He was obeying God’s will John 6:38 “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me” and that in the hierarchy of the Trinity He was beneath and subordinate to God the Father. John 13:16 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.” He reiterated again that God the Father was greater than Jesus the son. John 14:28 “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

Also the Bible shows us that the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy, which fits perfectly because a prophet is one who speaks on behalf of God, and everything that Jesus spoke revealed His Father to us. Revelation 19:10 “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Jesus told us that He was speaking the words that the Father gave Him to speak. John 12:50 “And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
What did Jesus come to tell us?

Jesus came to tell us about the road to salvation. John 3:5-7 “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

He came to show us that He was the only way (gate) to the Father. John 3:14-17 “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

Jesus also told us that He had not come to destroy the law of God, but rather to show us the perfect example of how to keep it, and not only that, but to also magnify it. Matthew 5:17-19 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

The Old Testament always informs us through the prophets what changes are coming in the future and the following scripture gives us confirmation of this. Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” So what did the prophets say would be done in regards to the Ten Commandments? It was prophesied that Jesus would Magnify the law and make it Honourable. This is certainly quite to the contrary that some are teaching today in that the law has ended. Isaiah 42:21 “The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.”

He then went on to give examples of how the law would be magnified according to Isaiah 42:21. Matthew 5:21-22 “You have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

This shows plainly that Jesus intended that all who followed Him would keep all of the Ten Commandments of God, which again fits perfectly with the verses in Revelation that show that the remnant Church will follow the Commandments and have the testimony of Jesus.

Jesus also showed us that it is not what we say, but rather what we do, our fruits, that matter, because if we really love and honour Him we will be obedient to Him. Matthew 7:21-23 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” These are sobering verses, because Jesus is talking about Christians. Some will proclaim Him as their Lord, and even claim to do miracles in His name, but because they don’t love Him enough to obey Him and follow His Commandments, they will not be saved.

The remnant Church will not only believe wholeheartedly in the truths of the words that Jesus spoke, but will also be endowed with members who will also prophesy and speak for God. Acts 2:17 “And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:”

In Old Testament times we see many examples of where God sent a prophet to His people to try to get them back on track just before a major event. Noah prophesied for 120 years before God sent the flood. Jonah prophesied to Nineveh, which successfully turned their hearts back to God and prevented their eminent destruction. John the Baptist prophesied in the wilderness about the coming Messiah and at the end of time the remnant Church will prophesy to all the world in an effort to get people back on track in preparation for the second coming of Jesus.

Jesus said, “Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away.” The testimony of Jesus Christ is the words that he spoke and the message He gave us from the Father that will always exist to guide His people to eternal life.


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