# sex before marriage



## YuNg (Sep 29, 2003)

Will you go to hell if you have sex before marriage. Also if you have sex before marriage with one person you plan on marrying when the time is right will god accept you?


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## vevster (Sep 29, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*YuNg said:* 
Will you go to hell if you have sex before marriage. Also if you have sex before marriage with one person you plan on marrying when the time is right will god accept you?  

[/ QUOTE ]

Good Question!

What about if you have a child before you are ready to financially and mentally support a child? To me that is a worse crime than having protected sex before marriage.


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## YuNg (Sep 29, 2003)

You was saying that to me wasnt you?


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## cybra (Sep 29, 2003)

Fornication (sex without being married) is a sin...but not a sin you cannot be forgiven over.  However, to paraphase I Cor. 7:9, it tells us that if a single man and woman cannot abstain from having sex, it is better for them to marry than to burn. I Cor.6:18 also says, paraphrasing, that when we committ fornication, we sin against our own body.  In my opinion, women confirm this last scripture.  We love with our whole heart, body, and soul when we truly care about someone.  However, if we break up with that person, we are devastated because we have given him a part of ourselves that we can never get back.  Once it occurs, for many women they go around trying to regain that void they now feel, and end up losing even more of themselves on what I call "false love."  

No one can understand God's love, grace, and mercy.  So, to say that you will go to hell if you have sex before marraige, would be an opinion.  To be honest with you, I had sex before I married my husband, and I truly believe that I will go to heaven when my life is over.  

One thing I would suggest for you to do, if you have a church home, go find a Christian woman, that you trust and ask her to be your "accountability partner."  This is just someone who will touch base with you from time to time to see how you are doing in your spiritual walk, pray with you when you are going through trials, and will be an ear for you when you need someone to talk to about decisions you are debating.  I have one and she has kept me accountable for my actions and Christian walk for years.  

Pray about it and let God direct you...He made you, He knows all about you, and it is He alone that knows what is best for your life. 

God bless


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## NubianAngel (Sep 29, 2003)

I don't think that there is any one answer to the question because people tend to vary in their religious beliefs and interpretations of the Bible.


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## Chyna Red (Sep 29, 2003)

I think fornication is a sin...but  we can be forgiven..Now constantly  intentionally fornicating  &lt;thinking  it's okay because I'll just ask for forgiveness afterwards&gt; is a different story.....  

"However, if we break up with that person, we are devastated because we have given him a part of ourselves that we can never get back. Once it occurs, for many women"
 they go around trying to regain that void they now feel, and end up losing even more of themselves on what I call "false love." 

We  feel  like that because  of soul ties...  we  lose apart of our soul&lt; our souls are tied&gt;  to everyone  that we have intercourse  with..and  that it  why it  is  sometimes  so hard  for us  to "let go" afterwards... &lt;I even had a prayer  of deliverance  to break soul ties&gt;...  which is  probably why fornication is a sin because  our  souls should only be tied  to our  spouses  because  we  are supposed  to be as one.


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## nekee (Sep 29, 2003)

The bible was changed soo many times that i dont know what to believe. Sex is supposedly a sin but i think if you love that person and you know you will be with that person for the rest for your life instead of sleeping around .. i dont know. Legal papers just make the difference


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## Chyna Red (Sep 29, 2003)

I think the problem is  that too many people  try  to change  the Bible  to suit their own situations...Fornication is a sin period....doesn't matter  if  you love  the person and plan to get married...if  that was  the case  it  would've been included in the bible...

just like stealing is a sin period...doesn't  matter  if  your  kids  have  been starving  for 2 weeks  and they need  food  or they will die...  MAn always  tries  to justify his  actions but sin is sin period.  I won't  go as far  as  to say  you will go  to hell because  of fornication because  there are a lot  of factors  involved...repentance, forgiveness, salvation, etc...but  I do think if  you die  and  are still living in sin,,, or  the  rapture  takes  place  and you are living in sin then you will most definitely go to hell.


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## butterfly7 (Sep 29, 2003)

Wow.  We've been down this road a time or two. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Yes.  Fornication is a sin and the Bible says with no confusion that fornicators will not enter the kindom of heaven.  The only alternative is hell.

If you have sex with someone that you are not married to, you are fornicating.  It doesn't matter how much you love them or if you "plan" to be with them forever.  God is clear about how He feels about this.  The reason sex is so enjoyable is because God created it. He created it, however, for man and wife.

If a woman and her husband have a baby before they are financially ready, it may not be smart, but it's not a sin.  On the other hand, if a nonmarried person has a baby (whether or not they are financially ready) they have committed a sin.  The sin, still, is having sex before marriage, not having a baby.

God is truly a loving and forgiving God and He will forgive you if you sin.  But to live in sin or to continue to commit a sin knowingly separates you from God.


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## zoya_j (Sep 29, 2003)

I just wanted to say that God hates Sin and not Sinners.


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## YuNg (Sep 29, 2003)

things has changed though maybe god see's listening to rap music a sin. Or watching an R rated movie a sin. I dont know what to believe either.


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## loverofnaps71 (Sep 30, 2003)

I'm here to tell you that I made a covenant with God to save myself until marriage. I am 31 soon to be 32. I remained a virgin until I was 28 years old. I got duped by the devil and did not listen to God and had sex with a man who was not holy at all. I was not spiritually clean. However, I am now working on that part of my life. I've been celebate for over 2 years and I want to remain that way. I am not dating; I am preparing myself for marriage. But I am also working on me, striving to become the Proverbs 31 woman that God wants me to be..."A Wife of Noble Character." God DOES forgives but He wants us to repent of our sins. No, you will NOT go to hell if you fornicate. However, we all must change our lives and ways and strive to be the best that God wants us to be. Remember, He loves us and wants us to be happy, not miserable. It's up to us to choose the right way. We WILL sin and continue to fail in our fleshy state, but God understands that we must strive to be the best, live for Him and avoid the temptation that gives birth to sin...and sin gives birth to death. Avoid those situations that breed temptation...that leads to sin. We'll be just fine. With faith, anything is possible...

Stay beautifully blessed, ya'll!


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## Chyna Red (Sep 30, 2003)

"No, you will not  go to hell if your fornicate"


God  says  otherwise.


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## Supergirl (Sep 30, 2003)

Hi Five to you Lover of Naps!  By the way, I love naps too (but I'm talking about the kind you take on a Sunday afternoon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

Now, to answer the question

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should NOT perish, but have everlasting life.


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## Chyna Red (Sep 30, 2003)

Supergirl..are you saying  that it's okay to sin as long as you believe in Jesus....?   As Christians  we do  and will still sin  but  you have  to repent  and  turn away from that sin...You can't  keep indulging in intercourse with the intentions of asking for forgiveness afterwards...just like one  couldn't keep going  out  sleeping  with other people's spouses  saying  "oh  it's  okay..I'll just  ask  for forgiveness  afterwards."  ...&lt; &lt;one would be willfully disobeying God&gt; Repentance  is  a Godly sorrow  and a turning away  from that behavior.  &lt;if  the same behavior  is being repeated over and over again  I would  have  to question the sincerity of the repentance.&gt;  In order  to  inherit eternal life you have  to be willing to give up the world..    If it  was  a simple  as accepting  Jesus as our lord and savior  and  still constantly indulging in the same sinful behaviors  as we  did  before  we  were saved...what have you really given up...Yes,  God  is  forgiving, merciful, and Graceful...but  he  is  far  from stupid .


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## Premierepearl08 (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: sex before marriage (Long)*

@ Cybra: That was a great answer!

The Bible says that fornication is a sin. While there are various translations of the Bible, it's better to be eternally safe than eternally sorry. Looking at it from a literal view, it is a sin. The Bible says that we, as humans, are not to judge others...which means to say that you are going to heaven or hell. We can only tell you what God says about it in the Bible. 

*I Corinthians 6* 
8   Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9   Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10   Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

That pretty much speaks for itself. If you have given your life to Jesus and are "born again" and you happen to fall into sin, then that is understandable and I know that if you sincerely ask him from your heart to forgive you, that he will. If you aren't born again, then your worrying about sex before marriage doesn't matter.

*John 14:6* 
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 

You have to take care of first things first. You ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins and make you pure in *his* eyes and let him into your life to direct you first. Then he will take care of the rest! If you let him help/instruct  you, he will show you how to keep yourself pure. Salvation doesn't make us perfect, but God's grace (undeserved favor) makes us saved. (Note: I do not believe in once saved always saved.)

Personally speaking, I had sex before marriage and I *really* wish that I hadn't. I used "protection" and still got pregnant. I thought that I wasn't ready for a baby...I still had my single life that I wanted to live! I, and my baby's father, wanted me to have an abortion but I was raised with a Bible-instructing mother and knew that it wasn't right. I was unsaved at the time, but prayed to God to help me and this was the scripture that was given to me.

*2 Timothy 3* 
13   But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14   But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15   And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16   All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17   That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


When I read it all I could do was cry. I couldn't believe that God was speaking to me like that. Besides diapers and wipes, the first thing that I *ever* bought my daughter was a t-shirt when she was 2. She didn't need it, but I wanted to buy it because I hadn't bought her anything. God used many people to provide for me in my time of need. I got bags and bags of clothes from other people (some new) as well as a highchair, crib, bedroom set, stroller and $200 from the church that I was attending when I was at school. By the way, I'm still getting clothes for her. She can't even wear them all!!! When we trust in God, he provides! I ended up giving my life totally over to Jesus during my pregnancy! An uncomfortable situation brought me to Jesus, but I am here to stay. (At least until the Rapture...)


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## butterfly7 (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: sex before marriage (Long)*

The Bible says we must repent for our sins.  We must remember that repentance is not only asking God to forgive us for what we have done, but to be truly sorry for it and to also TURN AWAY FROM IT.  If you are planning to continue to commit sin, then are you truly sorry?


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## JenJen2721 (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: sex before marriage (Long)*

[ QUOTE ]
 While there are various translations of the Bible, it's better to be eternally safe than eternally sorry. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

I like that!


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## pebbles (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: sex before marriage (Long)*

[ QUOTE ]
*JenJen2721 said:* 
 [ QUOTE ]
 While there are various translations of the Bible, it's better to be eternally safe than eternally sorry. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

I like that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

So do I!


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## loverofnaps71 (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: sex before marriage (Long)*

Yes, I responded to beautiful Butterfly privately, but I wanted to clarify and reiterate what I stated before and that is:

First, God is an all powerful, all knowing, and all loving Father. Like a father, He loves us, forgives us, and disciplines us.

Second, NOTHING can separate us from the love that God has for us. This is exemplified by God sending His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, as our Lord and Savior...who has indeed paid the penalty for our sins!

Third, HOWEVER, that does not mean that we keep sinning. If that was the implication from my earlier post, then PLEASE do not misinterpret what I am saying. God forgives with the expectation that we will turn away from commiting the same sin over and over.

I believe with all my heart that God loves us unconditionally, as co-heirs with Jesus. I believe with all my heart that He is a forgiving father, who punishes us (not necessarily by sending us to hell LITERALLY), but by allowing us to go through pain in our lives as lessons learned. Our bodies are holy temples that should remain pure and we should use our bodies to glorify God! Plain and simple. When we comit the sin of fornication, we commit it against our bodies and because our bodies are an extension of God, we commit sin against God. But, we can renew our bodies and become clean by repenting and turning away from our sins. Yes, some will object and say that our bodies are simply flesh, so God understands that flesh is weak and the spirit is stronger. I don't think that that's the case at all. I believe that when we allow someone to enter into our bodies, we become ONE with them and enter into a covenant with THEM. When they leave our bodies, they take a part of our spirit, our soul with them! I truly believe this. A woman who says that she's not affected by premarital sex, especially when that person does not care for her at all, is lying to herself. EVERY woman is negatively impacted by sex that is not within the bounds of a marital covenant.

Finally, I believe that the Lord does not want us to be unevenly yoked with someone else. Therefore, the goal of staying "pure" applies to men, too! Now, I realize that there is a double standard when it comes to sexual mores: men are encouraged to have many partners, women are pressured into staying a virgin. That's simply not right! I believe that BOTH men and women should strive to be pure in mind, body and spirit! I can never again allow myself to become one with another man who is not at least striving to be a Man of God in the realm of sexuality. For me, it just does not work...

I hope that I have clarified my position a little better for you guys.

Take care and stay blessed!

LON!


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## Brooke007 (Sep 30, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*YuNg said:* 
things has changed though 

[/ QUOTE ] Our civilization has advanced industrially, sadly human sinful nature remains consistent [ QUOTE ]
maybe god see's listening to rap music a sin. Or watching an R rated movie a sin. I dont know what to believe either.  

[/ QUOTE ] That may be the case if what you're listening to and watching is vulgar, graphic or pornorgraphic or if it is causing you to act out on what you hear and see. 
This is an excellent excercise for us all in sin to know and intelligently debate what is sin and what isn't.


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## Supergirl (Oct 1, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
Supergirl..are you saying that it's okay to sin as long as you believe in Jesus....?  

[/ QUOTE ] 

No, I didn't say it--the Bible said it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




However

I don't think that scripture (John 3:16) is saying that it is OKAY to sin.  But I do see that it is guaranteeing unconditional, eternal life to "WHOSOEVER believes in Him..."  Through Jesus Christ, that's not an impossible offer for the God of grace and mercy to make.  No one becomes perfect when they become a Christian.  Well I know I didn't.  

Many Christians (most) still have some sort of struggle.  And I must say that even those people who intentionally keep committing the same sin repeatedly are still under God's grace and even those sins were nailed to the cross and cleansed by the blood of Jesus.  

Here's another scripture:

Romans 10
9   That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Neither John 3:16 nor Romans 10:9 adds on the condition that you can't sin anymore, ever again after you believe in Jesus.  Neither scripture says that if you keep doing the same thing over and over then your salvation becomes null and void.  That wouldn't be grace.  

Even those who are not saved are still benefiting from God's grace.


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## JenJen2721 (Oct 1, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*Supergirl said:* 
 [ QUOTE ]
Supergirl..are you saying that it's okay to sin as long as you believe in Jesus....?  

[/ QUOTE ] 

No, I didn't say it--the Bible said it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus said we should repent of our sins.  Turn away from them and do them no more...

Matthew 4

    16the people living in darkness 
       have seen a great light; 
   on those living in the land of the shadow of death 
       a light has dawned."[1] 
17From that time on * Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." *

Luke 5

31Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32I have not come to call the righteous, but *sinners to repentance.*" 

1 John 3
5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. * No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.* 
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 

Jesus is saying, yes I will save you from your sins.  This happens when you accept Christ in your life...but if you continue to sin you don't know God.

Repentance is a total turning away from your sins.

1 Corinthians 6
8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers. 
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


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## Supergirl (Oct 1, 2003)

I see what you're saying Jen Jen,

but none of these scriptures says that God will strip you of your salvation if you sin.  But the main point was to answer YuNg's question and no he won't be going to hell for pre-marital sex (and neither will anyone else)


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## Chyna Red (Oct 1, 2003)

Don't you think that if all that was needed  was  to accept  Christ as your  saviour and  then  we could continue  to sin. &lt;fornicate, kill, lie, steal,,,and  all other things  that we did before&gt; everyone  would be  saved  because  no one  wouldn't  have to give  up anything..  Once  you get saved  your  are continually being  changed  from the inside out...  You can't  be saved and then no change takes  place...  read hebrews 6.  Now  I can see why we  need  Bible  study...Super girl  I hope  you are participating  this week.


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## Tebby1017 (Oct 1, 2003)

I'm not Supergirl, but I think I'll be joining in this week.

Tebby


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## Chyna Red (Oct 1, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*Supergirl said:* 
but none of these scriptures says that God will strip you of your salvation if you sin.     

[/ QUOTE ]

True  none  of  those  scriptures  say  God  will strip you of your salvation if you sin..It's saying that if you keep sinning  then you were never saved in the first place.  
We  should  be  careful of  what we tell people as  we all know  what the bible  says  about  leading  people  astray...It's  okay  to give your opinions  and  beliefs  but to tell someone  with certainty  "no you won't be going to hell for premarital sex  and neither will anyone  else...is  not only contradictory to the word..but a bad judgement call as well..

Not  trying to be  mean..but that's  what I think.  As  far  as Yung  is concerned..he  will believe  what he  wants  to believe  but  my advice  to you is if  it  cannot  be backed up by the word  then  don't  accept  it...let  God  be true  and every man be a liar.


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## JenJen2721 (Oct 1, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*Supergirl said:* 
I see what you're saying Jen Jen,

but none of these scriptures says that God will strip you of your salvation if you sin.  But the main point was to answer YuNg's question and no he won't be going to hell for pre-marital sex (and neither will anyone else)      

[/ QUOTE ]

The scripture I listed in my post said that the sexual immoral will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.  Isn't fornication sexually immoral?  What's the point of Jesus saving one from their sins if they continue to do them?


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## JenJen2721 (Oct 1, 2003)

Here's a parable Jesus told of repentance:

Luke 13


Repent or Perish 

1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent,* you too will all perish.* 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them -- do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish." 

*6Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. 7So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, 'For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?' 
8" 'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.' " *

I think Jesus is only giving so many chances to continue in a particular sin.


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## JenJen2721 (Oct 1, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*YuNg said:* 
things has changed though maybe god see's listening to rap music a sin. Or watching an R rated movie a sin. I dont know what to believe either.  

[/ QUOTE ]

I think someone said this already, but I don't think listening to the music or watching the movie is a sin, but if it influences a person or tempts a person to sin....it should be turned off.


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## butterfly7 (Oct 1, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]


The scripture I listed in my post said that the sexual immoral will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.  Isn't fornication sexually immoral?  What's the point of Jesus saving one from their sins if they continue to do them?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.  In I Corinthians it says fornicators will not enter the kingdom of heaven.  Revelation paints a vivid picture of hell and talks about who will go there.  What is your interpretation of these scriptures if you don't believe it means going to hell?  What about God separating the wheat from the tares and what about the passage that says the wages of sin is death?  Death, being the opposite of eternal life.  I know that if you repent, your sins will be forgiven, but what if you are living a lifestyle of sin?


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## Sweet C (Oct 1, 2003)

To answer Yung's question:  No person can tell u if you are going to hell or not, b/c that decision is not given to us, but to God.  We can only speak and condemn the sin and tell u what the word says.  I think the women on this board have raised excellent points supported biblically that fornication is wrong period.  Whether you believe that u are going to marry this person or not.  The definition of repent is to not only feel sorry and ask God for forgiveness for your sins, but to ALSO change your ways (most people tend to forget this part of the definition).  Hebrews 13:4 says Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled; but whoremongers and adulters God will judge.  This means that whether u are saved or not, if u choose to marry, God honors marriage between a man and woman as a joining of two people to one, but sexual relations outside of the holy bond of marriage is wrong and God will judge in the end for it. Remember no matter how society can or may change, God holds us to the same standard of excellence.


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## JenJen2721 (Oct 1, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
 Remember no matter how society can or may change, God holds us to the same standard of excellence. 



[/ QUOTE ] 










  --EXCELLENTE!!!!---


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## Supergirl (Oct 1, 2003)

Chyna,

I am not leading anyone astray--I am just telling them what the Bible says 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You say that I'm making a bad judgement call to tell YuNg that he will not go to hell for pre-marital sex.  I didn't say it.  The Bible did so you must be calling the Word of God a bad judgement.  

Chyna you said that if ALL WE NEED TO DO WAS ACCEPT CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOUR as your saviour and then we could continue to fornicate, kill, lie, steal,,,and all other things that we did before everyone would be saved because no one would have to give up anything.  

The capitalized part is all we need!  That's what the Bible says.  I know it seems too good to be true that we can believe on this man and his death and resurrection and confess it with our mouths then wallah, we're saved!  But that's the good news of the gospel.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




You say if this was all it took (as if it's something small)  then everyone would be saved.  It is God's will that everyone be saved.  It's not some exclusive program that is only meant for some people.  

I agree that once someone is saved that they are continually being changed from the inside out.  But I know many a saved-person that has back-slidden.  That doesn't make them un-saved all of a sudden.  If you cannot sin after you are saved then that would mean that being saved would come with the condition that you have to be perfect.  The Bible doesn't add that condition in to John 3:16 or Romans 10:9.  No flesh and blood (except the Saviour) is or ever will be perfect until we inherit our eternal bodies


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## Chyna Red (Oct 2, 2003)

You are twisting  the word and mine...As  I said  before  I know  that no one  is  perfect but Jesus..and  I said  before  that as Christians  we do make mistakes  and sometimes sin...but it should not be a continuous intentional  thing...  No where in the bible  does  it  say that you can become saved and then continue on living a life of sin and evil ....And no where in the bible  does it say fornicators will inherit the kingdom of God. That's  like  saying  one  can become saved and then decide they want  to become a devil worshipper..and  that's okay  because  they are saved..Like  the Bible  said  if you do this  then you never knew the lord in the first place. 

"You say if this was all it took (as if it's something small) then everyone would be saved. It is God's will that everyone be saved. It's not some exclusive program that is only meant for some people. "

 It is something small if all one  does  is  confess Jesus as Lord and then continue on in a life of sin..not only is  it  small but also meaningless.  Also I know  that salvation is meant  for everyone &lt;never said  otherwise&gt;  but I am also aware  that not everyone  will accept  the free gift and become saved...so if by exclusive u mean  saved  and unsaved  then I guess  that would be correct.  I will be  praying  for Godly wisdom and understanding  for us because some of us sure do need it!...done!


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## JenJen2721 (Oct 2, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
The Bible doesn't add that condition in to John 3:16 or Romans 10:9. No flesh and blood (except the Saviour) is or ever will be perfect until we inherit our eternal bodies  


[/ QUOTE ] 

But Supergirl, you're kind of ignoring all the other scriptures that people have listed here. 

What about the ones that say the sexually immoral and fornicators will not enter the kingdom of God.  These were words of knowledge sent to the church (meaning people who are saved.)  What about when the bible says the wages of sin are death.  I urge you to study the Word thoroughly.  Jesus says those who don't repent will perish.  Repentance comes after you get saved.  

What about these scriptures?:
Matthew 5
29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. 

Matthew 18
8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 

[In these scriptures he is saying make whatever sacrifices you have to make to stop sinning]


Romans 6:15
Slaves to Righteousness 

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 

Romans 8

12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. *13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,* 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 

 [ QUOTE ]
  No flesh and blood (except the Saviour) is or ever will be perfect until we inherit our eternal bodies 

[/ QUOTE ] 

No but God understands that are not perfect and have weaknesses....He is there to help us through them...

Romans 8

26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. 

Like the parable I posted earlier, he will only tolerate non-repentance for so long before he cuts us off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Some backslide, but they can't backslide forever you know?  


Additionally, telling someone if they will go to hell or won't go to hell for something is judging which we are not to do.  God is the only one who determines who will inherit the kingdom of God.

When I commit sin knowingly, the guilt eats me up inside and I just want to do everything in my power to fight it and stop doing it.  God knows this and He helps us through.

It seems like you're just listening to the two scriptures you listed and not listening to the dozens of other ones posted here that are in the same bible. We're all still learning though.


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## butterfly7 (Oct 2, 2003)

The Bible says it is better to marry than to burn.  That means that burning IS an option.  Also:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 

Clearly, this says we must do His will in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. 

Also:

7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.   

The word "iniquity" here means "lawlessness." Thus false prophets reject God's law--His Word--in favor of their own philosophy or experiences and thus cannot do His will (Matthew 7:21,26).

I truly believe in God's forgiveness and His grace, yet we must strive to do God's will.  We must KNOW this.  I urge everyone that believes in Jesus Christ to ask the Holy Spirit to guide them.  We have to truly honor God and to continue to live in sin is not His will for us.  That is why He died on the cross for us.


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## Chyna Red (Oct 2, 2003)

Thanks  Jen and Butterfly   that was  my point...although   as Christians  we may still sin..  we are immediately convicted..and want  to do everything  in our power to stop or stay away from whatever  it  is  we had  no business doing.  Not  continue  to do it  over  and over  because  once  saved  always  saved  so it doesn't matter  how we live.


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## butterfly7 (Oct 2, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*Chyna Red said:* 
Thanks  Jen and Butterfly   that was  my point...although   as Christians  we may still sin..  we are immediately convicted..and want  to do everything  in our power to stop or stay away from whatever  it  is  we had  no business doing.  Not  continue  to do it  over  and over  because  once  saved  always  saved  so it doesn't matter  how we live.  

[/ QUOTE ]






Also, someone made a very great point previously by saying no one or nothing can separate us from God.  However, WE can certainly separate OURSELVES from God.  God made it clear in I John that NO ONE can pluck us from God.  That's true and God NEVER turns away from us, but WE turn away from God.


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## Supergirl (Oct 2, 2003)

Jen Jen,

I appreciate the respectful tone and non-judgemental  approach that you are using to discuss this with me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    I appreciate you also not launching a personal attack against me even though we're not agreeing at this moment on this particular matter.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I do not mean to ignore the other scriptures but if looked at closely then John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 must contradict some of the other ones if the other ones are saying that you are not saved if you commit sin.  (?)  

Butterfly,

It is my understanding that the scripture about marrying being better than burning means burning with passion.  (loosely translated--it's better to go ahead and get married than to sit up and be horny and frustrated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 --sorry so raunchy sounding)  

Back to you Jen Jen,

Serious question though:  What is the fine line between how many sins you can commit after you have asked Jesus into your heart to be your savious?  I have sinned many times since becoming a Christian for the simple fact that I am flawed.  I don't think that means that I'm not saved anymore, or wasn't ever saved, or am going to hell.  Jen Jen, please tell me what you make of this.  

Thanks


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## Chyna Red (Oct 2, 2003)

If you took what I said as a personal attack against you or me being judgemental...then you were mistaken..Everything that I said can be found in the bible  and if you consider stating the word as judging then I can't change  that. I wasn't rude or attacking you. Was  just trying to find out &lt;biblically speaking&gt; how you came  to the conclusions that you did about sin and salvation.... I also was concerned about the fact that you could tell someone  seeking spiritual advice with certainty that they will not go to hell for committing a sin. I just suggested  that we be cautious  of  what we tell people&lt; we as in everyone responding to his/her question&gt;&gt; and make sure  that it is understood  that what we say  is  only our opinions as we have no idea of who will end up in hell and for what. If my words offended  you then they were taken out of context because  nothing  that I have said  written or implied can be seen as mean,  or as a personal attack. None  of  us  here  know  everything  that we need  to know  about  God or the bible... there  is  always  room to grow and learn &lt; which in part is the reason for the bible study&gt;and part of that is understanding the views and beliefs of others.  We  may not always agree   but we shouldn't become offended or attacked because we don't agree on things... That was  not the intent of my posts.


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## JenJen2721 (Oct 3, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
 Serious question though: What is the fine line between how many sins you can commit after you have asked Jesus into your heart to be your savious? I have sinned many times since becoming a Christian for the simple fact that I am flawed. I don't think that means that I'm not saved anymore, or wasn't ever saved, or am going to hell. Jen Jen, please tell me what you make of this. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

Honestly, I don't believe there is a fine line between how many sins you can commit after you have asked Jesus into your heart.  If that was the case, people would be sitting up going, "Hmmmm, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .....lemme see, well.....I have 8 more sins that I can commit before God gets fed up.  Let me use them wisely... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 " No, seriously, I just don't think it works like that.  God judges us each individually and the bible says that Jesus will come like a thief in the night:
****Matthew 24
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.*** *

I don't see any contradictions in the Word at all.  Firstly when it says that Jesus saves us from our sins...that means the innate sin that every man is born with (what we inherited from Adam), and the penalty of that sin is death.  So basically Jesus saves us from the death penalty.  Now when the bible says that he who continues to sin never knew God, it's saying that if you claim that your sinful self died, and you are saved through Jesus, why would you continue embracing the thing that He saved us from?    If someone saves your life, would you repay him by doing something that makes him unhappy? Wouldn't you be trying to please that person?  It's the same way with God.  So I think that's what Paul was saying is that you aren't acknowledging that Jesus even saved you if you continue on with sinning.

Being a Christian does not mean that we have diplomatic immunity...meaning we can continue to commit crimes and have no punishment for those crimes.

My fiance were struggling with fornication for a while, we decided to pray together and repent of our sin.  When it became really difficult to abstain, we decided to fast one day a week, so that we were sacrificing our bodies to God and not lusting with each other.  That first week after fasting, it's like we didn't really have the desire to have sex anymore.  It seemed like things got so much easier to wait until the wedding day.  And to me, it will make that day all the more special.  God is good!! And a just God, if we would just follow His word.

Check out this article I got from a Christian newsletter that I subscribe to:

*Have you died?*  We will all die one day physically.  But, have you died before then?  If you are a Christian, then you have already died.  "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live ks as a contribution to your salvation, but you rely completely and totally on Christ's sacrifice, then you have died to sin.  You have died through the identification with Christ on the Cross because as a Christian, you are "in Christ." "Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus," (Rom. 6:11).  Also, see Rom. 8:1-2, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."
     Death in the Bible is not the cessation of existence.  It is separation.  Physical death does not mean we stop existing; we continue on in the next life.  Spiritual death means separation from God, eternally.  Therefore, your death to sin is your separation from it.  It is the separation from the power it has to damn you and to rule over you.  It also means that because you are in Christ and Christ is in you, you have the power to resist sin where before you did not.
     Yes, we still sin.  Yes, we still struggle.  But our struggle against sin proves that we are not dead in our sins.  Instead we are alive in Christ.  Only those who are alive struggle for life and we Christians certainly struggle for our life in Christ apart from sin.  So, take courage and consolation by knowing that your struggle for holiness is pleasing to God and is also a sign of your salvation, something bought for by Jesus did on the cross.
     Therefore, you are not to live in sin.  You are not to live in fornication.  You are not to live in compromise.  You are not to live as though the grace of God will take care of your sins in such a way as to say that it is okay to sin just a little, or just a little more.  No.  You are dead to sin and are not to live after the ways of the flesh.  You are not to compromise our Christian walk.  You are to stand for righteousness.  If you are a Christian and you claim the name of Christ, then walk in righteousness.  Walk in the manner that Jesus walked.  Stand for truth and stand against sin. "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy,'” (1 Pet. 1:14-16).


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## ChocoKitty (Oct 3, 2003)

I've always been taught that God created sex for marriage. SEX IS NOT A SIN! Sex "outside" of marriage is a SIN.


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## EbonyEyes (Oct 4, 2003)

Anybody can say the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" but the true point is whether you mean it or not.

I believe that when you truly accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you not only believe that he was the son of God and died for your sins but you also *desire* to live by his teachings.  Like someone mentioned above, you haven't truly accepted Jesus if you go back to your sinful ways as if you never spoke words of accepting Jesus.

As I grow in my relationship with God, I notice that my desire to be more like Him grows meaning that I desire to turn away from sin.

Will I continue to sin?  Yes, because I'm human.  But I will not use that as an excuse to sin.  Because I have accepted J.C. as my savior, I need to continue to strive to turn away from sin.  I will fall, but if I get back up and go back to stiving to live a sinless life and do what God wants me to do then God will be pleased with me.

A relationship with God is a process.  God wants to see us grow.  He's not expecting us to be perfect (aka sinless) but he does expect us to strive each day to become better than what we were yesterday.

And let's remember that a sin is a sin.  Therefore, if we want to grow closer with God, you must turn away from all sin to the best of your ability including lying, stealing, and fornication.

-Ebony


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## ballet_bun (Oct 7, 2003)

I have a weird question ... please know this is not to stir up trouble either.  Just wanted to say that first!

I have always wanted to ask a Christian this question:  What about those who make the decision to not marry, but are in a committed relationship with someone, and choose to make love with their mate/lifePartner ... will they too go to hell in the eyes of other Christians and God?  Marriage is not for everyone.  So for those who are not interested in marriage, should they abstain ... in the eyes of God and The Bible.  There's Oprah ... she's not married, but I would imagine she and Stedman must make love.

Ballet Bun ...


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## Premierepearl08 (Oct 7, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*JenJen2721 said:* 
[ QUOTE ]
*Supergirl said:* 
I see what you're saying Jen Jen,

but none of these scriptures says that God will strip you of your salvation if you sin.  But the main point was to answer YuNg's question and no he won't be going to hell for pre-marital sex (and neither will anyone else)      

[/ QUOTE ]

The scripture I listed in my post said that the sexual immoral will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.  Isn't fornication sexually immoral?  What's the point of Jesus saving one from their sins if they continue to do them?


[/ QUOTE ]
@ JenJen: You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of the Word! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The posts that you put up in response to questions on the Word show equally divided Truth and I truly admire that!!


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## Premierepearl08 (Oct 7, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*ballet_bun said:* 
I have a weird question ... please know this is not to stir up trouble either.  Just wanted to say that first!

I have always wanted to ask a Christian this question:  What about those who make the decision to not marry, but are in a committed relationship with someone, and choose to make love with their mate/lifePartner ... will they too go to hell in the eyes of other Christians and God?  Marriage is not for everyone.  So for those who are not interested in marriage, should they abstain ... in the eyes of God and The Bible.  There's Oprah ... she's not married, but I would imagine she and Stedman must make love.

Ballet Bun ...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/ QUOTE ]

@ Ballet Bun - Girl, you are not stirring up trouble! You don't have to worry about that.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To answer your question very honestly, someone may make the decision not to marry and that's okay. It's your life to live as you please. That being said, to have sex, in *any* form, outside of the bonds of marriage is still a sin no matter how you slice it. The scriptures presented by Chyna Red and JenJen were very clear about God's view on that.If the Word of the living God, who created us all, said that people who commit fornication (sex outside of marriage) will *not* inherit the kingdom of God then they will not. That would include Oprah along with everyone else...no one is exempt. 

Oprah has done some WONDERFUL things for people but that is not what guarantees someone eternal life. Someone said it earlier when they said no matter how society changes, God stays the same. God says that fornicators will not inherit the Kingdom. As one who chose to marry, sex is good but it ain't THAT good.


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## pebbles (Oct 7, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*Premierepearl08 said:* 
[ QUOTE ]
*ballet_bun said:* 
I have a weird question ... please know this is not to stir up trouble either.  Just wanted to say that first!

I have always wanted to ask a Christian this question:  What about those who make the decision to not marry, but are in a committed relationship with someone, and choose to make love with their mate/lifePartner ... will they too go to hell in the eyes of other Christians and God?  Marriage is not for everyone.  So for those who are not interested in marriage, should they abstain ... in the eyes of God and The Bible.  There's Oprah ... she's not married, but I would imagine she and Stedman must make love.

Ballet Bun ...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/ QUOTE ]

@ Ballet Bun - Girl, you are not stirring up trouble! You don't have to worry about that.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To answer your question very honestly, someone may make the decision not to marry and that's okay. It's your life to live as you please. That being said, to have sex, in *any* form, outside of the bonds of marriage is still a sin no matter how you slice it. The scriptures presented by Chyna Red and JenJen were very clear about God's view on that.If the Word of the living God, who created us all, said that people who commit fornication (sex outside of marriage) will *not* inherit the kingdom of God then they will not. That would include Oprah along with everyone else...no one is exempt. 

Oprah has done some WONDERFUL things for people but that is not what guarantees someone eternal life. Someone said it earlier when they said no matter how society changes, God stays the same. God says that fornicators will not inherit the Kingdom. As one who chose to marry, sex is good but it ain't THAT good.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/ QUOTE ]

Well said, and I agree with you. Sex certainly isn't good enough to sin doing it and lose the Kingdom of God in the process!


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## ballet_bun (Oct 7, 2003)

"sex ain't that good" ...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













Ballet Bun ...


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## butterfly7 (Oct 7, 2003)

I believe the key is surrendering yourself to Christ.  The Bible says accepting Christ as your saviour is your salvation and that includes salvation from sin.  Once you accept Christ as your saviour, and yes, that's all you have to do to become saved, you must surrender yourself to Him.  That means giving yourself totally and completely, starting with your heart.  Once you commit yourself as belonging to Him, your desires will change.  I am not saying you will never sin again, but your desire will be to please God.  Once your heart is lined up with the will of God, it will be difficult to sin.  It will become more difficult to commit fornication than it is to NOT commit fornication.  It is not the will of your own that prevents sin, it is the change that God makes in your life.


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## Premierepearl08 (Oct 9, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*butterfly7 said:* 
I believe the key is surrendering yourself to Christ.  The Bible says accepting Christ as your saviour is your salvation and that includes salvation from sin.  Once you accept Christ as your saviour, and yes, that's all you have to do to become saved, you must surrender yourself to Him.  That means giving yourself totally and completely, starting with your heart.  Once you commit yourself as belonging to Him, your desires will change.  I am not saying you will never sin again, but your desire will be to please God.  Once your heart is lined up with the will of God, it will be difficult to sin.  It will become more difficult to commit fornication than it is to NOT commit fornication.  It is not the will of your own that prevents sin, it is the change that God makes in your life.   

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't have said it more beautifully than that! Simple and beautiful!!! I'm too long-winded to have summed it up like that! (Stopping before I go on a tangent)


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## butterfly7 (Oct 9, 2003)




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## Amour (Feb 24, 2008)

wOw this was one of the best discussions I've read on LHCF... if anyone else has anything to add, I'd love to hear it


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## NinasLongAmbition (Mar 5, 2008)

Chyna Red said:


> I think fornication is a sin...but we can be forgiven..Now constantly intentionally fornicating &lt;thinking it's okay because I'll just ask for forgiveness afterwards&gt; is a different story.....
> 
> "However, if we break up with that person, we are devastated because we have given him a part of ourselves that we can never get back. Once it occurs, for many women"
> they go around trying to regain that void they now feel, and end up losing even more of themselves on what I call "false love."
> ...


 Preach ! I completely agree..thats why I'm trying my best to keep my virginity , I am 20.


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## NinasLongAmbition (Mar 5, 2008)

Chyna Red said:


> I think fornication is a sin...but we can be forgiven..Now constantly intentionally fornicating &lt;thinking it's okay because I'll just ask for forgiveness afterwards&gt; is a different story.....
> 
> "However, if we break up with that person, we are devastated because we have given him a part of ourselves that we can never get back. Once it occurs, for many women"
> they go around trying to regain that void they now feel, and end up losing even more of themselves on what I call "false love."
> ...


Preach ! I completely agree..thats why I'm trying my best to keep my virginity , I am 20.


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