# Author Says: 'Jesus Worship' Emasculates and Devalues Black Manhood



## Spidergul (Dec 9, 2010)

I mean no disrespect in posting this, but I wonder what some of you think about this? 


Author Says: 'Jesus Worship' Emasculates and Devalues Black Manhood

--New Controversial Book Explains Why and How -- 




Nationwide (BlackNews.com) -- "'Jesus worship' is equivalent to 'white male worship,' and it is detrimental to the mental and emotional health of black people and emasculating and devaluing to black manhood," argues Dr. Christopher C. Bell Jr. in his book, The Black Clergy's Misguided Worship Leadership. In this book, Dr. Bell cites cogent educational and behavioral reasons to explain why and how the glorification and worship of the ancient, Roman-made, white male, Christian idol, Jesus Christ is not only idolatrous, but that such worship subliminally makes black people complicit in their own psychological oppression. 

Here are some points discussed in the book:



The "Jesus Christ" worshipped by black people today is the ancient, Roman-made, white male, idol god created by Roman Emperor Constantine and church bishops of the Roman Church at the Nicene Council (CE 325) and made compulsory for all Roman citizens, and that centuries later white European slave masters for over 300 years imposed this same white male idol god on their black African slaves; resulting in the white male image of the idol "Jesus Christ" being deeply ingrained in the psyche of black people as well as white people. 

b. The Jesus worshipping (white male worshipping) customs of the black community are led by the black clergy and these customs reinforce the racist notion of white male superiority in the same ways as white racial discrimination and other American cultural symbols and representations of white supremacy; 

c. The Jesus worshipping (white male worshipping) culture of the black community in conjunction with other American cultural symbols and representations of white supremacy subliminally afflicts many black people with a deleterious white superiority syndrome (WSS) that leads to emotional and spiritual depression resulting in self-limiting beliefs and aberrant behavior such as; low academic achievement motivation among black adolescents, mutual alienation between black men and women, increased feelings of hate toward whites and other blacks, and increased stress and other health related problems in black males; 

d. The white male worshipping (Jesus worshipping) folkways of the black community are mentally oppressive and emotional emasculating to many young black men who after years of embedment in such folkways feel alienated, demeaned, devalued, and angry, and react in ways that lead to high rates of recalcitrance, self abuse, crime, violence, and incarceration; 

e. The Jesus worship (white male worship) tradition within the black community is a black clergy-lead exercise that is a carryover from black peoples' past experiences as chattel slaves, and this tradition ensures that black people continue to learn and believe, as their slave masters would have insisted, that "whiteness and the white male Christian power structure are anointed and approved by God"; a result that promotes behavior and sentiments in many black people that are reflective of a "slave mentality" or a "low caste group" self-image; 

f. The white male worshipping (Jesus worshipping) culture within black communities unavoidably buttresses, elevates, and glorifies white manhood, while inescapably and inevitably devaluing and emasculating black manhood; a result that stokes a latent anger, a temperament of violence or of self-injurious behavior in many young black men while promoting a sense of racial superiority in many young white men. 


Dr. Bell argues that to neutralize the above negative effects of "Jesus worship," the black clergy must stop teaching black people to glorify and worship Jesus Christ and begin teaching them a "new Christianity" that espouses WORSHIPPING ONLY GOD the creator and sustainer of life and that recognizes Jesus as a human being and prophet. Why? Because this "new Christianity" would promote Jesus Christ from the status of an unbelievable, make-believe, superstition-based, supernatural, extra-terrestrial, god-character to the status of a believable, historically feasible, real life human being and prophet; and young black men will be able to relate to a "Prophet Jesus" and to his teachings with a sense of rationality, human commonality, and self-respect. None of these relationships is possible between today's Christianity and black men. 

He explains that due to reasons having nothing to do with the enlightenment and worldly progress of the black community, many black clergy members will be reluctant to change to the "new" Christianity and that change will come only when black clergy members have garnered the moral courage to speak the truth about the negative psychological effects of Jesus worship on the black community, or when black community uplift organizations and/or black university and college students decide to work together to persuade the black clergy to change from "Jesus worship" to "God worship ONLY." 

Dr. Bell argues that the "new" Christianity is a crucial intellectual and cultural transformation that black people must undertake if they are to ever gain religious enlightenment and psychological liberation from the damaging effects of their white male worshipping folkways. Such an enlightenment and liberation will lead to: improved academic achievement motivation in black male adolescents, a downward mediation of the high rates of recalcitrance, anti-social temperaments, and violence among many young black men, a collective gain in authentic black male racial pride, and a reduction in young black men's plight and plunge toward incarceration. 


About the Author:
Christopher C. Bell Jr., Ed.D., Major, US Army Retired, is a long time observer and analyst of the motivational and behavioral effects of religious educational programs on black people. Visit author's web site at Christopher C. Bell, Jr. 

To order The Black Clergy's Misguided Worship Leadership, ISBN# 9781-251-7806-2: ($19.00), visit The Black Clergy's Misguided Worship Leadership - Trafford or send an email to [email protected], or call 1-888-232-4444. The book is also available at major online book retailers such as Amazon, Borders, and Barnes and Noble. 


PRESS CONTACT:
Dr. Christopher C. Bell Jr.
[email protected]
Christopher C. Bell, Jr. 

Trafford Publishing
888-232-4444


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## Raspberry (Dec 9, 2010)

To attribute all of the failures of the black community to Jesus worship is very silly, and clearly the author is stuck on the idea of Jesus being a white man.. 

However, a discussion of Jesus worship from theological point of view is very important IMO.


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## Spidergul (Dec 9, 2010)

I was trying also to not fixate on the issue with Jesus being portrayed as white.  It also makes me wonder is this maybe why Muslims don't want the Honorable Mohammad ever portrayed?  Because who really knows what Jesus may have looked like?erplexed


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## MissMasala5 (Dec 9, 2010)

> when black community uplift organizations and/or black university and college students decide to work together to persuade the black clergy to change from "Jesus worship" to "God worship ONLY."



I light-weight agree with this.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2010)

This author just seems like another person making up excuses for his lack of relationship with God.  

I say this because truly none of this has ever stopped my Black Son; my Black Father, My Black Grandfather, My Black Uncles, nor my Black Male Friends, nor my Black Male Pastors, from being strong holy men who love to worship the Lord Jesus Christ.   

Folks have to go beyond the 'flesh' and just see God for who He truly is which in God who is a Spirit which has nothing whatsoever to do with color.   Just worship God and get on with life, instead of creating reasosn for separation and strife.   Stop creating excuses or allowing the enemy to place hindering nonsense in the path of righteousness which Jesus is leading one upon. 

Geeesh....

:Rose: *Spidergurl*, my comments are not 'at' you, babygirl.   

It's just the way I feel when I see book after book and article after article on this same theme.  So I hope I haven't appeared to be speaking against you.  I'm not.  It's the theory of the author.  Okay?


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## Spidergul (Dec 9, 2010)

^^^None taken Shimmie-your post are always so insightful and full of love.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2010)

Spidergul said:


> ^^^None taken Shimmie-your post are always so insightful and full of love.



 Thanks Sweet Lady...

Im'a sit down now and be quiet...


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## phynestone (Dec 9, 2010)

I am going to state my opinion and I don't care how controversial it is.

I love my black men, I really do, but I need them to step up collectively and stop finding a scapegoat to cast their problems and utilize as an excuse for their issues. 

Who knows the real appearance of Jesus? The Bible describes him as having skin the color of brass and hair like wool if I remember correctly? Jesus worship does NOT emasculate and devalue black manhood, I think some black men do that on their own by attempting to pull down black women who are doing the dang thing. Yes, there are people (men and women) who devalue and emasculate each other, but don't you dare place the blame on Jesus. Do not go there sir!


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2010)

phynestone said:


> I am going to state my opinion and I don't care how controversial it is.
> 
> I love my black men, I really do, but I need them to step up collectively and stop finding a scapegoat to cast their problems and utilize as an excuse for their issues.
> 
> ...



WELLLLLLL !!!


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2010)

phynestone said:


> I am going to state my opinion and I don't care how controversial it is.
> 
> I love my black men, I really do, but I need them to step up collectively and stop finding a scapegoat to cast their problems and utilize as an excuse for their issues.
> 
> Who knows the real appearance of Jesus? The Bible describes him as having skin the color of brass and hair like wool if I remember correctly? Jesus worship does NOT emasculate and devalue black manhood, I think some black men do that on their own by attempting to pull down black women who are doing the dang thing. Yes, there are people (men and women) who devalue and emasculate each other, but don't you dare place the blame on Jesus. Do not go there sir!



I had to come back.... cause I love your post!    

Because didn't God tell us to listen to HIM and not man!   

Didn't God say, 'My Sheep KNOW MY VOICE and the voice of a STRANGER they will not follow...'

So if this man [the author of the article] and those who agree with his theory [which is not God's theory cause God doesn't need theories anyWAY], however, if this man and those who bow to his theory would just get to KNOW the voice of God for themselves then NOBODY, Black, White, Green, Yellow or Blue, can emasculate them... 

WHY O' Why do they not realize that they are doing this to themselves.  I ain't neva' stopped myself from getting to know God because someone depicted Him as a white man.   That would indeed make me a bigot. 

It was the Holy Spirit who drew me in...unto Himself and I simply fell in love with Jesus... all the way.  No color, Just Jesus....Just Jesus...Just Jesus is all I see and where I want to be.


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## LifeafterLHCF (Dec 9, 2010)

Im am sick and tired of black men wanting a darn scapegoat for every little thing my daddy didnt love me that why Im a whore blah blah blah..man up or shut up..I think this is why I dont do black churches anymore..the church I call home is a mix and is headed by a white man.

I dont see any nonsense there and they are really fired up about the Lords work..If they can be so focused on finding all the reasons why not to worship and get right if they only took that energy and found the reasons why they should they would be all right.


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## SND411 (Dec 10, 2010)

Who wants to bet he doesn't mind the church's worship of the male gender?


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## Irresistible (Dec 10, 2010)

wow 

Keep ur eye on the Mess-iah and not the mess


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## Shimmie (Dec 10, 2010)

GoddessMaker said:


> Im am sick and tired of black men wanting a darn scapegoat for every little thing my daddy didnt love me that why Im a whore blah blah blah..man up or shut up..I think this is why I dont do black churches anymore..the church I call home is a mix and is headed by a white man.
> 
> I dont see any nonsense there and they are really fired up about the Lords work..If they can be so focused on finding all the reasons why not to worship and get right if they only took that energy and found the reasons why they should they would be all right.



  All I can say is :wow:  

Praise God for the fire in your bones.  You are speaking the truth...!


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## Shimmie (Dec 10, 2010)

Irresistible said:


> wow
> 
> *Keep ur eye on the Mess-iah and not the mess*



Now THAT... is a banner word!    It needs to be printed on the front page of this man's books.


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## Shimmie (Dec 10, 2010)

*Food for Thought:*

They're standing on the  corner and they can't speak  English. 

I can't even talk the way  these people talk: 

Why you  ain't, 
Where you is, 
What he  drive, 
Where he stay, 
Where he  work, 
Who you  be... 

And I blamed the kid  until I heard the mother  talk. 

And then I heard  the father talk. 

Everybody knows  it's important to speak English except these  knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that  kind of crap coming out of your mouth
In fact  you will never get any kind of job making a  decent living. 

People marched and  were hit in the face with rocks to get an  Education, and now we've got these knuckleheads  walking around. 

The lower economic  people are not holding up their end in this  deal. 

These people are  not parenting. They are buying things for  kids. 

$500 sneakers for  what? 

And they won't spend $200 for  Hooked on Phonics. 

I am talking  about these people who cry when their son is  standing there in an orange  suit. 

Where were you  when he was 2?

Where were you when he was  12? 

Where were you when he was 18  and how come you didn't know that he had a  pistol? 

And where is the  father? Or who is his father? 

People putting  their clothes on backward: 
Isn't that a  sign of something gone wrong? 

People with  their hats on backward, pants down around the  crack, isn't that a sign of  something?  

Isn't it a sign of  something when she has her dress all the way up  and got all type of needles [piercing] going  through her body? 

What part  of  Africa  did this come  from?? 

We are not Africans. Those  people are not Africans; they don't know a thing  about  Africa  .....  

I say this  all of the time.  It would be like white  people saying they are  European-American.   That is totally  stupid.  

I was born  here, and so were my parents and grand parents  and, very likely my great grandparents.  I  don't have any connection to Africa, no more  than white Americans have to  Germany   ,  Scotland ,  England , Ireland  , or the  Netherlands  .  The  same applies to 99 percent of all the black  Americans as regards to  Africa  .   So stop,  already! !  !  

With names like  Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that  crap ......... And all of them are in  jail. 

*
Brown or black versus the  Board of Education is no longer the white  person's problem. *

We have got to  take the neighborhood back. 

People used to be  ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with  eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever  you call them now. 

We have  millionaire football players who cannot  read. 

We have  million-dollar basketball players who can't  write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to  do a better job. 

Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting  us. 

We have to start holding each other to a higher  standard..

We  cannot blame the white people any  longer.' 


Dr..  William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed..D.


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## LovingLady (Dec 10, 2010)

Spidergul said:


> Dr. Bell argues that to neutralize the above negative effects of "Jesus worship," *the black clergy must stop teaching black people to glorify and worship Jesus Christ and begin teaching them a "new Christianity" that espouses WORSHIPPING ONLY GOD the creator and sustainer of life and that recognizes Jesus as a human being and prophet.* Why? Because this "new Christianity" would promote Jesus Christ from the status of an unbelievable, make-believe, superstition-based, supernatural, extra-terrestrial, god-character to the status of a believable, historically feasible, real life human being and prophet; and young black men will be able to relate to a "Prophet Jesus" and to his teachings with a sense of rationality, human commonality, and self-respect. None of these relationships is possible between today's Christianity and black men.



Wow, the devil is a lier. 

According to John 14:6, Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me", we can't just cut Jesus out of the picture and try to down play his role in our lives. 

This happens to correspond with the post that Leala made:  Beware of the Angry Watchman. His guy is spreading a false idea of Christianity and it is going to lead a lot of people away from the true gospel.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 10, 2010)

I haven't even read the article yet and am responding to the title.  Most of these punk-bleep men who mistreat and don't take care of their families or womanize, commit crimes and gang bang or white-collar criminize/worship their jobs and power...guess what, they dont' even know Jesus.


Besides, good Jewish boys have large families.  Jesus' bride is fat with millions of children....  The above-mentioned don't apply.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 10, 2010)

Spidergul said:


> Dr. Bell argues that to neutralize the above negative effects of "Jesus worship," the black clergy must stop teaching black people to glorify and worship Jesus Christ and begin teaching them a "new Christianity" that espouses WORSHIPPING ONLY GOD the creator and sustainer of life and that recognizes Jesus as a human being and prophet. Why? Because this "new Christianity" would promote Jesus Christ from the status of an unbelievable, make-believe, superstition-based, supernatural, extra-terrestrial, god-character to the status of a believable, historically feasible, real life human being and prophet; and young black men will be able to relate to a *"Prophet Jesus" *and to his teachings with a sense of rationality, human commonality, and self-respect. None of these relationships is possible between today's Christianity and black men.



Come on, Dr. Bell, just say it, you don't believe that Jesus is the Son of G-d.  Hey, to each his own...but


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## Shimmie (Dec 10, 2010)

Abdijz said:


> Wow, the devil is a lier.
> 
> According to John 14:6, Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me", we can't just cut Jesus out of the picture and try to down play his role in our lives.
> 
> ...


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## Guitarhero (Dec 10, 2010)

Yeah, that's not Black empowerment.


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## aribell (Dec 10, 2010)

I think that there are aspects in which Jesus of Nazareth presents a very countercultural type of masculinity that is not going to satisfy many people.  Remember, the Jewish people were expecting a militant leader, and yet they got a Man of whom it is said "A bruised reed He will not bend, and smoking flax He will not quench."

It is not uncommon for black men in Islam to talk about Christianity being feminizing.  There's a lot of talk even among white evangelicals about whether the church is too feminine.  But still, at some point we have to recognize that we don't need to change our theology or worship, but we need to accept God as He presents Himself to us--even if that presentation does not match our expectations or political agenda.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 10, 2010)

nicola.kirwan said:


> I think that there are aspects in which Jesus of Nazareth presents a very countercultural type of masculinity that is not going to satisfy many people.  Remember, the Jewish people were expecting a militant leader, and yet they got a Man of whom it is said "A bruised reed He will not bend, and smoking flax He will not quench."
> 
> It is not uncommon for black men in Islam to talk about Christianity being feminizing.  There's a lot of talk even among white evangelicals about whether the church is too feminine.  But still, at some point we have to recognize that we don't need to change our theology or worship, but we need to accept God as He presents Himself to us--*even if that presentation does not match our expectations or political agenda.*



One can certainly find strength and comfort by deeply knowing the origins of the Church.  I always so it but it often falls upon deaf ears.  To know Jesus intimately to that degree, one has to learn who His people were and are today.  Most folks don't venture past the supermarket, let alone another neighborhood...even though the mere concept of a Messiah has crossed thousands of miles to all the world from the very heart, Israel.  Incidentally, when I think of Jesus, though I'm not male, He's not that typical European figure wearing a "dress," singing a Presbyterian hymn  ...he has chutzpah.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 10, 2010)

???????????


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## aribell (Dec 11, 2010)

^^^^^^Why the question marks?

You know, I really don't think much about what Jesus looks like. Is that the case for anyone else? And would it really matter if he _were_ blonde haired and blue eyed? I mean, He does look like *something* and that means that there are people who He _doesn't_ look like. The whole tug of war over Jesus' physical appearance strikes me as so beside the point. As if that would make Him any less _everyone's_ Savior. And maybe that's God's point--we're the ones who are caught up in hair textures and skin tones, not Him.


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## SND411 (Dec 11, 2010)

nicola.kirwan said:


> ^^^^^^Why the question marks?
> 
> You know, I really don't think much about what Jesus looks like. Is that the case for anyone else? And would it really matter if he _were_ blonde haired and blue eyed? I mean, He does look like *something* and that means that there are people who He _doesn't_ look like. The whole tug of war over Jesus' physical appearance strikes me as so beside the point. As if that would make Him any less _everyone's_ Savior. And maybe that's God's point--we're the ones who are caught up in hair textures and skin tones, not Him.



AGREE. I have a feeling Jesus may have been very physically unattractive when He was on Earth. 
And Jesus belongs to the whole human race, not just one nation or region.


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## aribell (Dec 11, 2010)

SND411 said:


> AGREE. *I have a feeling Jesus may have been very physically unattractive when He was on Earth. *
> And Jesus belongs to the whole human race, not just one nation or region.


 

Isaiah 53:2--"...he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him."


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## LovingLady (Dec 11, 2010)

nicola.kirwan said:


> I think that there are aspects in which Jesus of Nazareth presents a very countercultural type of masculinity that is not going to satisfy many people.  Remember, the Jewish people were expecting a militant leader, and yet they got a Man of whom it is said "A bruised reed He will not bend, and smoking flax He will not quench."
> 
> It is not uncommon for black men in Islam to talk about Christianity being feminizing.  There's a lot of talk even among white evangelicals about whether the church is too feminine.  But still, at some point we have to recognize that we don't need to change our theology or worship, but we need to accept God as He presents Himself to us--even if that presentation does not match our expectations or political agenda.




I love the fact that Jesus is "feminine". On the day of his second coming he is not going to be so feminine and people are going to wish he was.


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## SND411 (Dec 11, 2010)

And I hate how often men complain that the church is too "feminine." What is wrong with femininity? Weren't the most loyal supporters of Christ women? These are often the same men who want to hyper-masculinize the Scriptures and Christian life. So it's okay for a religion to be male-centric but all of a sudden we have a problem if the church is a bit feminine? Isn't the church the BRIDE of Christ? Gosh, men want everything! I mean, geez, they already have the beneift of God HIMSELF being described as male, they already have Jesus HIMSELF, be a male. The whole Hebrew Scriptures mostly contain male characters (The Hebrew Scriptures were really written by men for men), speaking from the male perspective. All the 12 formal disciples were men! Most of the authors if not all were men too! And yet they still complain that Christianity isn't "masculine" enough?

People who complain about the church becoming too "feminized" obviously do so not for the glory of God, but for the glory of themselves. Many people use religion as a source of power; to legitimize dominating other people particularly women. Christian women CANNOT fall for this!


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## aribell (Dec 11, 2010)

@SND411 Good point!


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## Laela (Dec 13, 2010)

I'm glad you posted this, because that seems to be what this man's personal issue  is: race -- which stems from deeply rooted hurt, pain from his  childhood. Just read his bio.. So his article is a farce.

As for what you wrote here.. ITA.. 

Like this black preacher once said "_Hey, the White Man did not wake up at 12 o'clock"_




 




Shimmie said:


> *
> Brown or black versus the  Board of Education is no longer the white  person's problem. *
> 
> We have got to  take the neighborhood back.
> ...






I missed this.. but yeah, he's a Unitarian Universalist. I see no one has posted the source of this man's belief system, and I like to sometimes consider the source, so I'll do i there. Here's what UU's believe (from uua.org)

*Existence of a Higher Power* 
*What do Unitarian Universalists believe about the existence of a higher power?*
  Diverse beliefs about the existence of a higher power are welcome in  Unitarian Universalist congregations. Unitarian Universalists may be Atheists, Humanists, Christians, Pagans, or identify with other theological and philosophical traditions.

*Inspiration and Guidance* 
*Where do Unitarian Universalists find inspiration and guidance?*
  Unitarian Universalism affirms that inspiration and meaning may be  found in many sources, including experience, history, and religious  tradition.

The Unitarian Universalist faith draws from six sources: 


Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed  in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an  openness to the forces which create and uphold life.
Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to  confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the  transforming power of love.
Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life.
Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves.
Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason  and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind  and spirit.
Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the  sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the  rhythms of nature.
I guess the Word of God isn't considered a source... 

*'Free' Thinkers*



Abdijz said:


> Wow, the devil is a lier.
> 
> According to John 14:6, Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me", we can't just cut Jesus out of the picture and try to down play his role in our lives.
> 
> This happens to correspond with the post that Leala made:  Beware of the Angry Watchman. *His guy is spreading a false idea of Christianity and it is going to lead a lot of people away from the true gospel.*


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## Laela (Dec 13, 2010)

Well, what about your great-great-great grandparents??

Weez gon haf'a dis-agree on dis here, Shimmie...  
 





Shimmie said:


> *I was born  here, and so were my parents and grand parents  and, very likely my great grandparents.* *I  don't have any connection to Africa*, no more  than white Americans have to  Germany   ,  Scotland ,  England , Ireland  , or the  Netherlands  .  The  same applies to 99 percent of all the black  Americans as regards to  Africa  .   So stop,  already! !  !


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## Prudent1 (Dec 16, 2010)

First thing I wanted to share:
Exo 20:4
4 “You shall not make for yourself an *image* in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."
Why? In addition to ppl of the time period making idol gods, ppl will have long heated debates on what God the son _looks_ like and become distracted and angry. They will not be able to see the game being run on them by the enemy nor the time lost incurred while debating on possible appearances. Divide and conquor- still works in 2010.

Second thing:
Jesus was not feminine. He was _very_ meek. Sometimes meekness is not understood.
Meekness=power under _control_

Those who truly have _it_ going on do not have to constantly prove it. Wealthy ppl, intelligent ppl, grown ppl, or whatever do not have to shout it from the roof tops. You know it when you run across them b/c they exude it w/o saying a word.
Apple trees do not announce with pride that they are apple trees. We know they are apple trees b/c they have apples on their branches. Grown folk don't need to announce their adulthood b/c their actions speak louder than words. Wealthy ppl don't announce their wealth b/c they don't need our validation. Usually the ppl being flashy are 1 check away from financial ruin. They are leasing that car. They live on plastic. They have esteem issues so they literally try to wear their self worth for all to see. 
As we work through renewing our minds from the many lies we were told about our self worth as AA females, let us not believe this myth of the feminine Jesus. Essentially that is no different in practice than the historians all over the globe who depicted Jesus to look like whatever ethnic group they belonged to.


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## chicacanella (Dec 16, 2010)

Shimmie said:


> This author just seems like another person making up excuses for his lack of relationship with God.
> 
> I say this because truly none of this has ever stopped my Black Son; my Black Father, My Black Grandfather, My Black Uncles, nor my Black Male Friends, nor my Black Male Pastors, from being strong holy men who love to worship the Lord Jesus Christ.
> 
> ...


 

*Man, the devil tries to do all in his power to stop you from worshiping the Most High God. *

*He tells some, he doesn't exist.*

*For some blacks, "why are you worshipping a white Jesus." I also wanted to not, why when we obviously know that Muhammed was of Middle Eastern descent and not from West Africa, does this author not write about the effects of idolizing him? Why is it always some trying to talk about the effects of worshipping Jesus? *

*Others, "Why wasn't God there when XYZ happened."*

*It's like, he only gives you part of the truth and twists that in such a way, where one who has never encountered Jesus ends up believing a lie.*

*I doubt all of the many people healed of cancer, herpes, HIV, incurable diseases because someone who believed in Christ Jesus laid their hands on them are saying, "Oh, I know I'm healed because you prayed in Jesus name, but I still don't believe he's God." When you are sick, and on your death bed, you get over the flesh issue and want to be well again. If you know that Jesus healed the person next to you, you don't care if he was blue or green. You want to know the God that Heals, Jehova Rapha. Physical pain can change a person's mind real quick. You let me see a person with a debilitating illness tell a person, "no" after seeing someone else healed. Puh-lease.*

*I don't know how many times I have to scream, it's not about his race, because if people only see that, then it's real superficial. If Jesus would have come as a literal white man, I mean really white lilke Anglo-Saxon, then people would still have something to say. Whatever race, someone could write an article about how, if he came looking West-AFrican, "Why White Men Feel Exclusion In Worship To Black Jesus." Oy vey!*


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## chicacanella (Dec 16, 2010)

nicola.kirwan said:


> I think that there are aspects in which Jesus of Nazareth presents a very countercultural type of masculinity that is not going to satisfy many people. Remember, the Jewish people were expecting a militant leader, and yet they got a Man of whom it is said "A bruised reed He will not bend, and smoking flax He will not quench."
> 
> It is not uncommon for black men in Islam to talk about Christianity being feminizing. There's a lot of talk even among white evangelicals about whether the church is too feminine. But still, at some point we have to recognize that we don't need to change our theology or worship, but we need to accept God as He presents Himself to us--even if that presentation does not match our expectations or political agenda.


 

*Wow, I'm just really curious to know whether all of these people talking about feminizing ever really had a convo with Jesus? Because until I really had a convo with him and he begain to talk back to me, I didn't know who he was. And Jesus is teh one who told me, not to get a nose job 2 years ago or I would suffere the recompense. I had no idea what recompense meant until the Holy Spirit led me to look it up. THe way Jesus said it, I knew I better not do it or it wasn't going to be good for me. I have otehr times to but it was in no way femine, but all the way masculine and even then some. You don't want to be on the receiving end of an angry Jesus.*


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## SND411 (Dec 17, 2010)

chicacanella said:


> *Wow, I'm just really curious to know whether all of these people talking about feminizing ever really had a convo with Jesus? Because until I really had a convo with him and he begain to talk back to me, I didn't know who he was. And Jesus is teh one who told me, not to get a nose job 2 years ago or I would suffere the recompense. I had no idea what recompense meant until the Holy Spirit led me to look it up. THe way Jesus said it, I knew I better not do it or it wasn't going to be good for me. I have otehr times to but it was in no way femine, but all the way masculine and even then some. You don't want to be on the receiving end of an angry Jesus.*



What's wrong with Jesus having a feminine side? Why "all masculine and then some?" What is feminine and what is masculine?

No wonder why some men think they're God......


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## SND411 (Dec 17, 2010)

WHAT IS WRONG WITH A "FEMININE" JESUS? He held babies for goodness sake! He imagined Himself as a MOTHER HEN! He made parables of a woman REPRESENTING GOD! He came to be acquainted with out griefs and experiences that that includes the FEMALE EXPERIENCE!

Gosh, some of you are acting like being "feminine" is a negative thing. So God is all male and masculine now? So how in the world are women also made in God's image?


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## Guitarhero (Dec 17, 2010)

My problem is that this man is attempting to dissuade people from worshiping Him when they don't need an outside "source" to do that.  They believe it for them, inside.


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## Poohbear (Dec 18, 2010)

That's why it is so important to follow God's commands. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth" (Exodus 20:4).

I never seen worshipping Jesus as devaluing Black manhood. The black men who worship Jesus are not focusing on his color. That would be dumb. Dr. Bell is focusing on all these graven images and likeness of Jesus that other men have created. Most of these images have Jesus with fair skin, blue eyes, blonde hair, or with dark eyes and dark brown hair.  It is wrong for people to make images, pictures, and models of Jesus. That's why there's been confusion on his race and color when it really does not matter at all. Jesus was both human and divine when he dwelled on this earth to show us how to live right.  That's what the focus should be on... the life of Jesus Christ, not his physical appearance.

The only thing that's devaluing Black manhood is the lack of values and standards of living right, and not being imitators of Jesus Christ, who was God in the flesh.


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## Prudent1 (Dec 20, 2010)

SND411 said:


> WHAT IS WRONG WITH A "FEMININE" JESUS? He held babies for goodness sake! He imagined Himself as a MOTHER HEN! He made parables of a woman REPRESENTING GOD! He came to be acquainted with out griefs and experiences that that includes the FEMALE EXPERIENCE!
> 
> Gosh, *some of you are acting like being "feminine" is a negative thing*. So God is all male and masculine now? So how in the world are women also made in God's image?


 
I struggled with understanding how and if God valued, loved, cared about women in my 20's largely b/c I believed a lot of lies I'd been taught by other ungodly women (ERA movement during my time) who had been subjected to all kinds of false teaching by men using their power the wrong way. They will be held accountable. I also did not understand many things in the bible and so I ended up taking them out of context (mulitilple wives and side peices etc). At this point in my life I understand how loved I am by Jesus so there's no need to try to project a more 'feminine' image onto his person. Your statement here is dead on*-"He came to be acquainted with our griefs and experiences that that includes the FEMALE EXPERIENCE!"* That still doesn't make him feminine nor does it make being feminine a negative thing. This next question is rhetorical, "What does being feminine mean to you?" I had to pray and spend some time with God to get my answer. I would wager if that question was asked we would get a plethora of different answers/ meanings. Hmm, it would probably be very enlightening. Anyway, back to the matter at hand. If femininity was negative, why would a perfect GOD have bothered to make distinctions between male and female. That would make him something he cannot be and that is a liar. That would mean that he created something that does not fit his normal MO of doing all things _decent and in order_. I love, love, love being a woman. All of it, _every_ single day of the month We are special:reddancer:. We each have specific purposes. To illustrate, there is a difference between what a hammer is used for vs what screwdriver is used for. Yet they are both tools. You may be able to accomplish the job of the hammer by using the screwdriver but not w/o unnecessary additional work. You are _equal_ to any man, yet you are not a man. Your _purpose_ is different than that of a man. Different does not mean belittled or less than. Anyone trying to tell you otherwise is lying. Yeah, God is all male and masculine now and forevermore:hero:. What does masculine mean to you? When you hear of someone being masculine or manly how does that make you feel? What does that look like to you? God is not harsh, insensitive, egotistical, bragadocious, a jerk, loud, abusive, does not abandon us, does not break his promises,does not disregard and show a lack of appreciation for our feelings, nor any of all of the other things we can't stand about the males (cause I refuse to call them MEN:angry who present themselves as godly but act in those blatantly ungodly ways. God _never_ instructed them to behave that way. This involves some more trying of the spirits by the Spirit. Just b/c someone says they are Christians does not make it so! We must be wise and discerning females with these frauds. He is not happy/amused when ppl misrepresent him. It hurts his daughters and causes all kinds of thick scabs to form in our lives. It perpetuates an ugly cycle that ends in divorces or better yet OOW births and other forms of death and pain. There is a verse from an old song, "Oh what peace we often forfeit, oh what needless pains we bear. All b/c we do not carry _everything_ to God in prayer." Pray, Lord what do you say it means to be created woman? Lord show me any and all lies and untruths I have ever been fed regarding femininity! That type of behavior from males clearly does not line up with the word, yet some of us internalize that junk and end up mad at the world:heated:. This is another divide and conquer tactic of Satan that we really need to stop falling for:kneel:. With a _godly_ man in charge, there is no reason to fear abuse. That's what all of this is ultimately rooted in *fear* of abuse, unappreciation, a lack of being in control, being emotionally open to a man who may take advantage of that openess. God loves and values women and He does not have to be portrayed as feminine to do so. God has not given us a spirit of fear. Spend some time thinking about what you think about. Who told you you were less b/c you were a woman? What instances happened where you saw women being treated as second class citizens? These ppl who say women are less than, what does there life look like? Are they truly happy, successful, etc? Ppl love to give advice when their lives are as raggedy as can be. Misery loves company- all day everyday.



Poohbear said:


> *That's why it is so important to follow God's commands. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth" (Exodus 20:4).*
> 
> I never seen worshipping Jesus as devaluing Black manhood. The black men who worship Jesus are not focusing on his color. That would be dumb. *Dr. Bell is focusing on all these graven images and likeness of Jesus* *that other men have created.* Most of these images have Jesus with fair skin, blue eyes, blonde hair, or with dark eyes and dark brown hair. It is wrong for people to make images, pictures, and models of Jesus. That's why there's been confusion on his race and color when it really does not matter at all. Jesus was both human and divine when he dwelled on this earth to show us how to live right. That's what the focus should be on... the life of Jesus Christ, not his physical appearance.
> 
> The only thing that's devaluing Black manhood is the lack of values and standards of living right, and not being imitators of Jesus Christ, who was God in the flesh.


^^^ Because one thanks is not enough. In more recent times ppl ahev created images to be divisive on purpose but back in the 15th century when you had Rembrandts, and Michaelangelos painting their depiction of biblical events (although they shouldn't have for the above reason) I don't even think they were being insensitive. This was during a time where all they knew of and saw looked just like them. They probably thought everyone looked just alike. They didn't know the about other cultures and continents as a whole.


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## Poohbear (Dec 21, 2010)

SND411 said:


> WHAT IS WRONG WITH A "FEMININE" JESUS? He held babies for goodness sake! He imagined Himself as a MOTHER HEN! He made parables of a woman REPRESENTING GOD! He came to be acquainted with out griefs and experiences that that includes the FEMALE EXPERIENCE!
> 
> Gosh, some of you are acting like being "feminine" is a negative thing. So God is all male and masculine now? So how in the world are women also made in God's image?



I'm not sure why people feel like Jesus is feminine, but I don't see Jesus as feminine. And being feminine is NOT a negative thing as long as you are a woman. Women are made in God's image for sure.


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