# Warning:  Strong Meat here!!!!!!



## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

*Monday, May 04, 2009*

*The Gay Agenda in the Church? *


Straight men do not befriend homosexual men. It just doesn't happen. A man that is straight is in direct opposition to a man that desires men. I feel, we as real men need to stand up and fight for our rights. We have the right to be the creation God has established and we have the right to recognize the global agenda of homosexuals. We should preach the truth in love, but never tolerate the lifestyle. This is why: 

Gays have now created their own bible (click here to see it), and they are bending the rules in an attempt to make their lifestyle the norm, even though nature itself says that it's not. They are creeping into every venue and place that they can be recognized and they don't even have the backing of nature or God! Doctors will tell you that there is a danger to practicing a homosexual lifestyle. 10 to 20 partners a week, ingesting and handling human fecal matter, as well as, polluting body cavities with foreign protein is no way to live for any man. These actions make the lifestyle very damaging to their health, even without the biblical mandate of God to not indulge in this sort of behavior. Honestly, anyone that endorses or approves of the damaging and roulette type lifestyle of a homosexual is demon possessed because they are not at all considering the safety of the persons involved, only the mission of the antichrist to pervert God's creation. 

This is tragic people of God. It's tragic because the devil has set men up in our churches to condone this behavior as well as participate in it. These men rule over large amounts of people and they slowly but surely promote themselves to the forefront of ministry only to progressively gain the approval of their audiences before they pulled a fast one one them. Yes, that's right, they were patient enough to get the folks full of them before they began launching their gay subliminal agendas and now, people are hooked on them and can't seem to shake free from them. Who am I talking about? Let's go down the list and you will see that these guys can take born again believers and make them condone the gay agenda with little resistance. 

Click on the link below to continue reading the rest of this blog (VERY eye opening!!!) it was too long to post it in it's entirety.

Blog: G. Craige Lewis Blog 
Post: The Gay Agenda in the Church? 
Link: http://gcraige.blogspot.com/2009/05/gay-agenda-in-church.html


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## Almaz (May 6, 2009)

So that means all the Choir directors are out becuase I have seen many a sweet Choir directors at gathering with my Christian friends. And how do people know if someone is gay in the church unless they or someone outs them. What about all the gay ministers like REV. James Cleveland that was so well respested and he died of AIDS. 

http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/we-dont-want-another-james-cleveland/

HOW does one know?


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## trenise (May 6, 2009)

At first I was wondering. Who is this?". Then I clicked on the link and saw it was the same guy someone posted about a while ago who alks about the demonic influence of some secular music. I really enjoyed that and let some people close to me listen to the teaching. They got convicted on some things they'd never considered before.


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

Well for one I would be leary of the Flamboyantly Femenine ones and those that "preach around" saying that the homosexual lifestyle is ok, so to speak. You know when some asks them about homosexuality and if it is wrong, they'll say some like "well, only GOD can judge, who know's where a mans heart is at his death". I heard TD Jakes say that with my own ears. CRAZY!!!!!


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

Trenise, I watched those dvd's as well, and man-o-man did I have to repent. In fact after watching the dvds, I went into my room, prayed, repented, cried out to GOD to cleanse me of all the "sin and junk" I'd allow to come into my heart, by listening to all that music and the next morning I had a demonic attack!!!!  HEAVY STUFF!!


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## hurricane (May 6, 2009)

Almaz said:


> So that means all the Choir directors are out becuase I have seen many a sweet Choir directors at gathering with my Christian friends. And how do people know if someone is gay in the church unless they or someone outs them. What about all the gay ministers like REV. James Cleveland that was so well respested and he died of AIDS.
> 
> http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/we-dont-want-another-james-cleveland/
> 
> HOW does one know?


___________________________________________________________

*Yes this is so true. I have seen a many colorful choir directors. There will be a separation of the wheat and the tear. This will be done by the Father. *


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## hurricane (May 6, 2009)

sunnysmyler said:


> Well for one I would be leary of the Flamboyantly Femenine ones and those that "preach around" saying that the homosexual lifestyle is ok, so to speak. You know when some asks them about homosexuality and if it is wrong, they'll say some like "well, only GOD can judge, who know's where a mans heart is at his death". I heard TD Jakes say that with my own ears. CRAZY!!!!!


 
______________________________________________________________

*I will not listen to someone PREACHING this doctrine.*


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

We as believers can no longer hide and ignore what is going on in Christandom today, neither can we allow ourselvs to be pulled in by Charisma and Charm. We must study the WORD for ourselves (as so many wise women on this board have stressed time and time again), so that when we hear hearsy we will, by the HOLY SPIRT, detect it and close our ears to it, even when it comes from the "popular preachers on tv and such". We must develop a TRUE relationship with GOD THE FATHER that we will be able to discern false prophets. One thing that is assured, they will FALL, you cannot pervert the WORD OF GOD and get away with it!!!!


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## chicacanella (May 6, 2009)

sunnysmyler said:


> Trenise, I watched those dvd's as well, and man-o-man did I have to repent. In fact after watching the dvds, I went into my room, prayed, repented, cried out to GOD to cleanse me of all the "sin and junk" I'd allow to come into my heart, by listening to all that music and the next morning I had a demonic attack!!!! HEAVY STUFF!!


 

*What are you talking about you had a demon attack? I watch very carefully what I listen to now; I consider the beat of the music, the lyrics, the image of the person singing it, the fruit it is bearing and finally, is it a song that would glorify God.*


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

Yes demonic attack, not because I watched the dvd's, but because I repented and freed myself from the stronghold of the enemy that I allowed to develop through the music I'd listened to, this was about 2yrs ago. The devil was MAD that he'd lost another one to the AlMIGHTY GOD, lol. Even my son who was 12 at the time, said that during the night, he was awakened to a strange voice in his ear saying "you are all alone", he said "mommy, I was so scared, I put the tv on cartoons", I said, why didn't you come get me, baby, You must Pray to GOD when that happens, etc....". It was a demonic attact because I was ENLIGHTENED....the devil wants us to stay in the dark!!!!!!


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## trenise (May 6, 2009)

Almaz said:


> So that means all the Choir directors are out becuase I have seen many a sweet Choir directors at gathering with my Christian friends. And how do people know if someone is gay in the church unless they or someone outs them. *What about all the gay ministers like REV. James Cleveland that was so well respested and he died of AIDS.*
> 
> http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/we-dont-want-another-james-cleveland/
> 
> HOW does one know?


 
I followed several of the links that led from the OP and came across this. I was not very familiar with gospel music or Christian circles at this time (1991 when he died). I was so surprised to read about all this scandal and him molesting his foster son. That really hurt to read that.


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## trenise (May 6, 2009)

I'm confessing my ignorance here. I saw this in the OP's link concerning Jakes. When I first heard other preachers say anything against TD Jakes, I thought it must have been because of jealousy only. I'm sure there are some that are just jealous and hateful, but there are others who have a genuine concern for what he preaches. 

I was soooo into him(Jakes). I put him on a pedestal so high. This was one of the first famous preachers I listened to and I was so excited by his doctrine, the way he presented the Word, etc. I still don't want to bash him or put him down because I respect the office of a bishop. However, I will say, that time and teaching has taught me not to go by what I see or by what I hear, but by what the Sprit reveals. This is regarding anything. I have to remember this and act on it. It's so easy to go the other way.


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

I know Trenise, I was the same way, even went to Jakes and Juanita Bynum conferences, although they helped me in my walk, I had to keep my eyes on JESUS!!!! He was the ONLY one who was able to deliver me from the stronholds that had me bound. 
My pastors(husband and wife) are wonderful, awesome TEACHERS, who expounded on the WORD so wonderfuly, that it became easier to understand the WORD. They push  and drive us to study the WORD for ourselves....not just preach hype-up topics. 
Many, not all televangelist are looked to like mini jesus's.....not good!!!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 6, 2009)

Am I reading this right...am I hearing you say that Bishop T.D. Jakes is gay?

If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Thanks.



> Well for one I would *be leary of the Flamboyantly Femenine ones* and *those that "preach around" saying that the homosexual lifestyle is ok, so to speak. You know when some asks them about homosexuality and if it is wrong, they'll say some like "well, only GOD can judge, who know's where a mans heart is at his death". I heard TD Jakes say that with my own ears. CRAZY!!!!!*


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## inthepink (May 6, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Am I reading this right...am I hearing you say that Bishop T.D. Jakes is gay?
> 
> If I'm wrong, please let me know.
> 
> Thanks.



I am sure OP will answer but I didn't take it to mean that.  I think she was trying to say that he kind of "oks" or excuses it by saying "God will judge."  What's wrong is wrong.  No judgment needed there.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 6, 2009)

hairlove said:


> I am sure OP will answer but I didn't take it to mean that.  I think she was trying to say that he kind of "oks" or excuses it by saying "God will judge."  What's wrong is wrong.  No judgment needed there.


Ok, if that is what she meant, she really needs to clarify it because that's what I got from her post.


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## trenise (May 6, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Ok, if that is what she meant, she really needs to clarify it because that's what I got from her post.


 
I don't know what she intended exactly from that particular post, but when I follwed the OP's link there is a write up about him with another link in that. If you click on that link, there is an article that says someone was propositioned by Jakes and this led to the break up of his marriage.


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## blazingthru (May 6, 2009)

Almaz said:


> What about all the gay ministers like REV. James Cleveland that was so well respested and he died of AIDS.
> 
> http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/we-dont-want-another-james-cleveland/
> 
> HOW does one know?


 I had no ideal I am totally shocked.  Oh my Goodness T.D. Jakes too.  well I am not shocked about him. I knew something wasn't right with him for a long time. but many years ago I did enjoy watching him but he said a few things I just didn't agree with and his message on the sabbath sealed it I didn't want to hear him again.  Plus I have never been comfortable with the Word Bishop it always bothered me.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 6, 2009)

trenise said:


> I don't know what she intended exactly from that particular post, but when I follwed the OP's link there is a write up about him with another link in that. *If you click on that link, there is an article that says someone was propositioned by Jakes and this led to the break up of his marriage*.


We have to consider the source.  I remember the man who proclaimed and declared that President Obama had sex with him in the back of his limo and we all found out that it wasn't true.

There is so much to do in the Kingdom than to seek out information about what others are doing...we all will be judged according to the deeds done with our bodies.  We must try to keep ourselves pure before God, rather than calling others out with their sins or lack thereof.

This forum is beginning to sound more like a gossip column than a Christian Forum.erplexed (I'm not saying its you, I'm speaking in general)

It's beginning to make me nauseous


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## inthepink (May 6, 2009)

trenise said:


> I don't know what she intended exactly from that particular post, but when I follwed the OP's link there is a write up about him with another link in that. If you click on that link, there is an article that says someone was propositioned by Jakes and this led to the break up of his marriage.



In that case, I stand corrected.  I did not view the link...


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## hurricane (May 6, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> We have to consider the source. I remember the man who proclaimed and declared that President Obama had sex with him in the back of his limo and we all found out that it wasn't true.
> 
> There is so much to do in the Kingdom than to seek out information about what others are doing...we all will be judged according to the deeds done with our bodies. We must try to keep ourselves pure before God, rather than calling others out with their sins or lack thereof.
> 
> ...


__________________________________________________________

*I have to agree.*


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## msa (May 6, 2009)

sunnysmyler said:


> Doctors will tell you that there is a danger to practicing a homosexual lifestyle. 10 to 20 partners a week, ingesting and handling human fecal matter, as well as, polluting body cavities with foreign protein is no way to live for any man.




Ok I'm sorry but what?

When did the "homosexual lifestyle" automatically equal having 10-20 partners a week and ingesting/handling fecal matter?

What?

He lost me right there. I only listen to folks who have some sense and aren't blatantly spreading propaganda.


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## Shimmie (May 6, 2009)

msa said:


> Ok I'm sorry but what?
> 
> When did the "homosexual lifestyle" automatically equal having 10-20 partners a week and ingesting/handling fecal matter?
> 
> ...


He's not spreading propaganda.   Gays are spreading deadly sexual diseases.  Gay men and women 'do' change partners frequently, _especially _the men.  It's their lifestyle; and their act of sexual activity (anal sex) 'does' involve contact with fecal matter; hence this 'Blogger's true statement.   

This is also why God calls it the unnatural use of the body.  

Anyone knows the harmful bacteria and divers diseases that comes from fecal matter.  The colon is full of it; which is why we need to have a colon cleanse at least once a year.    The smell of feses alone should make one recoil from it with extreme caution.      

I feel bad for these poor people.


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## Shimmie (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Warning:  Strong Meat here !!!!!!*



Nice & Wavy said:


> *We have to consider the source.*
> 
> I remember the man who proclaimed and declared that President Obama had sex with him in the back of his limo and we all found out that it wasn't true.
> 
> ...


 
I totally agree.  I've seen and heard many a rumor and folks who are used of satan to 'attack' the Church will use the 'homo accuso' tactic to try and shut them up from preaching the true word of God.    

Who cares?   People can say what they want.  They lied on Jesus too; yet it never stopped Jesus from fulfilling the 'Call' that God had on His life while here on earth.   

satan always attacks what / whom he fears the most. Who cares?  I surely don't. 

God commanded us:  _"Be not afraid of their faces; speak what I tell you to speak."  _

Jesus made it plain, _'Shake the dust off your feet and keep it moving'.   _

Rhett Butler said, _"Frankly my dear, I don't give a "  _

And like one of 'Baby Boys' said:_  "Evil Shall Not Triumph Over Good"._ 

When it comes to rumors, they have no weight nor power to stop God's Plan and Focus.  I pray that these men and women of God never give up and never shut up.  For as God shut the mouths of the lions; He'll also stop the mouths of liars.  

Precious Wavy, I'm just gonna say it and put it out there to those in ministry who have succombed to fear and polictical compromise. 

*MINISTERS . . .  * 

*Whoever you are out there . . .*

*Those of You Called of the Lord . . .*

Keep ministering God's word and don't you dare stop.... Don't you dare.   

For if God be for you, who dare be against you.   There are more that be with you, than those who are posed against you.

*Don't you dare give up and don't you dare shut up!* 

God is looking and raising up those who will not give in, succomb to pressure and threats and rumors.    

God has hidden you in the cleft of His Rock; God has hidden you from the scourge of the tongue.  

God has hidden you from the snare of the fowler and the noisesome pestilence.   

How dare you run and flee from the enemy when God has given you total Victory long before the attacks ever came upon you.  

Where you are, God has already been there before you.  He has made your way perfect. God has prepared a table before you in the presence of thine enemies.

Minister's do not dare give up!  Do not dare, shut up!   God has given you a mission to cover the earth with His word... Go forth and keep not back.

In Jesus' Name.... Amen and Amen.  :Rose:  

_Those of you, who are called of the Lord..._


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## Almaz (May 6, 2009)

Oh my yes Rev. James Cleveland performed all over the world with his gospel choir and even did a Gospel Album with Aretha Franklin. I still have that. But it was back in the early to mid 70's was his heyday. 







trenise said:


> I followed several of the links that led from the OP and came across this. I was not very familiar with gospel music or Christian circles at this time (1991 when he died). I was so surprised to read about all this scandal and him molesting his foster son. That really hurt to read that.


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## Almaz (May 6, 2009)

Okay what about Straight people who ingage in Anal sex. Isn't that the same. And isn't AID prevelent in the Black community with Hetrosexual women. NOT all men are living in the DL you got a lot of Promiscius men in the Black community that are NOT gay. AIDS spread between Lesbians is not as prevelent as gay men. 

Just because someone is gay that does not mean that they are automatically going to have sex with everyone they see. I work with Gay people and I have worked in the AIDS community. Most of the Gay people that I come in contact with have been in solid relationships for years and wanting to get married. This is not the exception. 

Maybe we need to focus on GAY ministers/Rabbis/Priests/Imams preaching the word of G-d married with children and messing around with little boys and girls. 

At least the Gay community is not lying about who they are.  I notice the people that are shouting the most are the ones that are engaging in it

Just an observation. 

I would not want anyone to push any agenda on me that I don't agree with but dogma without substance it hypocritic. 







Shimmie said:


> He's not spreading propaganda. Gays are spreading deadly sexual diseases. Gay men and women 'do' change partners frequently, _especially _the men. It's their lifestyle; and their act of sexual activity (anal sex) 'does' involve contact with fecal matter; hence this 'Blogger's true statement.
> 
> This is also why God calls it the unnatural use of the body.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (May 6, 2009)

Almaz said:


> Okay what about Straight people who ingage in Anal sex. Isn't that the same. And isn't AID prevelent in the Black community with Hetrosexual women. NOT all men are living in the DL you got a lot of Promiscius men in the Black community that are NOT gay. AIDS spread between Lesbians is not as prevelent as gay men.
> 
> Just because someone is gay that does not mean that they are automatically going to have sex with everyone they see. I work with Gay people and I have worked in the AIDS community. Most of the Gay people that I come in contact with have been in solid relationships for years and wanting to get married. This is not the exception.
> 
> ...


With any observation, how does it justify or purify homosexuality?

That statement about those who shout the loudest against homosexuality is weak and it's old.  I would say that those who deny being gay and yet support the gay agenda are the ones who are most afraid of coming out into the open with it.    They are the quickest to deny being gay; yet they shout the loudest to support it.   

Anyone, be they priest or not, who indulges in this activity is wrong.


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

Ok, I'm back, (went to bible study). I did not call T. D Jakes gay, what I said was that I heard with my own ears, when he was asked during an interview, if gay ppl are going to hell, his response was very wishy washy, not clear cut, based on what the word said, it was like "well.....each man......no one knows" not, "he that lies with another man, is an abomination, and his blood will be upon him". 

This is not gossip, the fact is these preachers are influencing ppl everyday, via the television and through their ministries, we as true believers should be aware and SOUND THE ALARM, to those who aren't as strong and are unaware of the wiles of enemy.

And the blog wasn't aimed at the homosexual community at large, it was aimed at Preachers who are in the pulpit, full of sin, leading GODS ppl astray with their sinful lust and their attempts to "ok" or "justify" certain acts of sin.

Yes Shimmie, I touch and agree with you in your prayer. It's not for those who are true to spreading the GOOD NEWS, but for those who are compromising their holiness for fortune and fame!!!


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## msa (May 6, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> He's not spreading propaganda.   Gays are spreading deadly sexual diseases.  *Gay men and women 'do' change partners frequently, especially the men.  It's their lifestyle*; and their act of sexual activity (anal sex) 'does' involve contact with fecal matter; hence this 'Blogger's true statement.




Are you really for serious?

I mean really really.

Yes gays are spreading sexual diseases. *But newsflash, heterosexuals are spreading those same diseases.* Sexually active people spread diseases when they have unprotected sex, it's as simple as that.

Any type of unprotected sex is wrong and unsafe. It's not just gays that are involved in unprotected sex. And for this blogger to say that the gay lifestyle is marked by having 10-20 partners a week is just ludicrous and outright propaganda. 

Being gay or leading a "gay lifestyle" is not synonymous with changing partners frequently. To believe something like that is just backwards and simple minded.


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## Shimmie (May 6, 2009)

sunnysmyler said:


> Ok, I'm back, (went to bible study). I did not call T. D Jakes gay, what I said was that I heard with my own ears, when he was asked during an interview, if gay ppl are going to hell, his response was very wishy washy, not clear cut, based on what the word said, it was like "well.....each man......no one knows" not, "he that lies with another man, is an abomination, and his blood will be upon him".
> 
> This is not gossip, the fact is these preachers are influencing ppl everyday, via the television and through their ministries, we as true believers should be aware and SOUND THE ALARM, to those who aren't as strong and are unaware of the wiles of enemy.
> 
> ...


Sunny I get so 'disappointed' when ministers get on CNN with Larry King, Good Morning America, Oprah, and the like... and then they 'totally wimp out'.... totally!    

Yet when they are among their peers, they are all "Bravado" with what thus saith the Lord.   I don't want a wet back preacher who can't be like Jesus, who is the same, yesterday, today and TOMORROW on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, ABC, etc., 

Stop punkin' out!  And it has nothing to do with political correctness!

You know what?  My mother wouldn't let me run away racism; we walked straight and tall and proud of our Brown skin, whether it was dark brown in the summer or pale brown in the winter.  We still walked brown and proud.

I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...in it's entirety.   Put me on CNN... I'll never back down...

:Rose:   By the way, "How was Bible Study tonight, Sunny?"   I know it was blessed.   Share the word God gave you. It's a blessing to someone's heart viewing this forum.


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## Shimmie (May 6, 2009)

msa said:


> Are you really for serious?
> 
> I mean really really.
> 
> ...


 
I'm totally serious!  AND I'm fully aware of heterosexuals who are passing STD's around as well.  It all falls in line with sexual sin.

To wit... how does any of what you share 'JUSTIFY' homosexuality?  It is unrepented sin. 

The difference with heterosexuals is that they can repent of their sexual sin...stop; cease from the sinful sexual activity.    homosexuals choose not to.  Instead they choose to continue with their activity.   

Why would any Chrisitian support this?

For any Christian to come to the defense of homosexuality, is denial of the Cross upon where Jesus died for ALL sins, not some but all.   Which obviously says that homosexuals do not have to remain in their sinful state of being.


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

Thanks Shimmie, I'm not trying to start "drama", believe me, but for too long, I was one of those ppl who couldn't imagine my favorite pastor or prophetess actually saying or doing wrong, but I had to take my eyes off man, and put them on GOD!!!!

Regarding Bible Study, it was on the area of DISCERNMENT which means to detect, distinguish between right and wrong.

1. There is not true discernment if there is no WORD, you are "Word Void"
2. Discernment isn't based on "natural" senses, it's insight based on the spirit and           
    knowledge of the Word.

Proverbs 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Seek- (Hebrew) Baqash: to search out by any method specifically in worship or prayer

3. The more we search GOD out, the more we know who HE is, therefore when we seek the LORD, we understand all things.

4. Discernment will prevent falling because Conviction comes along with it!! JOB 6:30

Job 6:30 Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?KJV

1Kings 3:9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?

5. Discernment is governed by LOVE, if it isn't, it's no good!!! 1 Cor 13:1-3
1Corinthians 13: 1-3 1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 

 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 

 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

So what I posted earlier directly relates to Discernment.....Just because someone is popular, well known, can "preach" like no tomorrow, have lots of conferences, is on TBN every time you turn around, ultimately we MUST seek GOD for ourselves.....do NOT rely on someone else to bring understanding of what GOD desires of our lives!!!


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## msa (May 6, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm totally serious!  AND I'm fully aware of heterosexuals who are passing STD's around as well.  It all falls in line with sexual sin.
> 
> To wit... how does any of what you share 'JUSTIFY' homosexuality?  It is unrepented sin.
> 
> ...



I am not justifying or defending homosexuality or any other sexual sin.

My only point was that piece of information was based on stereotypes and was blatant propaganda. Christians should not be spreading lies nor prejudice.




> The difference with *heterosexuals* is that they *can repent* of their sexual sin...stop; cease from the sinful sexual activity. *homosexuals choose not to*. Instead they choose to continue with their activity.




Just because homosexuals may choose not to stop their sin, does not mean they cannot repent. They can, just like anyone else.

And please, there are many many heterosexuals out their who choose to continue their sexual sin as well. The sins are both the same, one no greater than the other.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 6, 2009)

> > sunnysmyler said:
> >
> >
> > > Ok, I'm back, (went to bible study). *I did not call T. D Jakes gay, what I said was that I heard with my own ears, when he was asked during an interview, if gay ppl are going to hell, his response was very wishy washy, not clear cut, based on what the word said, it was like "well.....each man......no one knows" not, "he that lies with another man, is an abomination, and his blood will be upon him". *Thank you for the clarification.
> > ...


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

N&W....girl, I would never be upset, lol, and it is taken in LOVE, but please realize that the original post wasn't my words, but those of the blog of Elder Lewis, that's the way he chose to "develop" the topic of his blog regarding homosexuality in the pulpit.

"What I said also was that WE must be concerned with the souls of mankind, rather than calling out ministers names with their sins or lack thereof"
I agree with what you are saying to a degree, because you are Aware, there are many out there who are not, who will and can be led astray by false prophets and I feel it is our job to take the blinders off and see whats really going on!

It's like saying, "well I don't care if two men want to marry each other, as long as I can get married to a man, I'm alright", NOT SO!!!
We as believers should be stirred up in our spirit to know that there are men and women, preaching hearsay and false doctrines!!!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Warning:  Strong Meat here !!!!!!*



Shimmie said:


> I totally agree.  I've seen and heard many a rumor and folks who are used of satan to 'attack' the Church will use the 'homo accuso' tactic to try and shut them up from preaching the true word of God.
> 
> Who cares?   People can say what they want.  They lied on Jesus too; yet it never stopped Jesus from fulfilling the 'Call' that God had on His life while here on earth.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Shimmie.  There are many of us who are being persecuted by THE CHURCH, and we are doing what we are suppose to do!  It can be very disheartening and discouraging to even hear some of the things that are being said, not just here on the forum, but other places.

I am fully aware that there are those who are in the pulpits that are not correct...but, God will make sure that those that do, get their just rewards.  

I always remember the story in John when Jesus and the disciples were sitting together and Peter asked *"Lord, and what shall this man do? And Jesus said to him, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you? follow you me."*

ETA: I so appreciate your encouragement to those of us who do minister the Gospel.  It's not easy for us and I know so many that are blessed when the church uplifts and encourage and not tear down.  You are one of those people that do and you keep me so encouraged....thank you and I love you, sis.


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## meka (May 6, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> We have to consider the source. I remember the man who proclaimed and declared that President Obama had sex with him in the back of his limo and we all found out that it wasn't true.
> 
> There is so much to do in the Kingdom than to seek out information about what others are doing...we all will be judged according to the deeds done with our bodies. We must try to keep ourselves pure before God, rather than calling others out with their sins or lack thereof.
> 
> ...


 
A to the MEN!!!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 6, 2009)

sunnysmyler said:


> N&W....girl, I would never be upset, lol, and it is taken in LOVE, but please realize that the original post wasn't my words, but those of the blog of Elder Lewis, that's the way he chose to "develop" the topic of his blog regarding homosexuality in the pulpit.
> 
> "What I said also was that WE must be concerned with the souls of mankind, rather than calling out ministers names with their sins or lack thereof"
> I agree with what you are saying to a degree, because you are Aware, there are many out there who are not, who will and can be led astray by false prophets and I feel it is our job to take the blinders off and see whats really going on!
> ...


Thanks, sis.  I'm happy about that  I knew that the original post was from someone else..that's why I said "consider the source."  Pastor Ted Haggard also proclaimed against homosexuality, yet was doing it in the pulpit.  We must always consider the source.

As a person who evangelizes the lost, I totally understand that there are many people who are being led astray.  My point is that almost everyday there is a thread started in this forum by someone speaking against homosexuality, what pastors should or shouldn't be doing, etc...yet, I don't see many posts speaking about those who ARE doing the work of the ministry with the love of God in their hearts and leading many, many people to Christ.  I just don't see it here and its disheartening.  That's why I said the CF is becoming more like a gossip column.

We must proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ till He comes for His Church.  There are those who God has given the directives to tell about the sins of pastors, but I do know that other pastors and leaders are the ones that are to call them out specifically...its a mandate for us to do so.

Have a blessed night, sis.


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

N&W...this is NOT a personal attack towards you and the MANY other men and women of GOD who are truly SOLD OUT to preaching the UNADULTURATED WORD OF GOD!!!!
I stand with Shimmies prayer!!!!!!


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## Shimmie (May 6, 2009)

sunnysmyler said:


> Thanks Shimmie, I'm not trying to start "drama", believe me, but for too long, I was one of those ppl who couldn't imagine my favorite pastor or prophetess actually saying or doing wrong, but I had to take my eyes off man, and put them on GOD!!!!
> 
> Regarding Bible Study, it was on the area of DISCERNMENT which means to detect, distinguish between right and wrong.
> 
> ...


I 'Knew' you had a Good Word!   It's a blessing and I thank you for sharing it.  God always knows how to tie the loose ends and bring about clarity... "Discernment."

What's sad about the leaders is that too many 'sheep' will follow.  It weakens the Church.   We see it already with so many who say they follow Christ, yet deny Him.  

You shared an excellent term "Word Void"...

I don't care who tries to come against my stand upon His word, I'm still standing.   I'm used to the battle.  It doesn't even phase me anymore.  And it all ties in to your message from Bible Study, "Discerning'.  

Precious Wavy shared a message a few threads back "Open My Eyes", and it all ties in with "Discerning".   God has been preparing us, here in this forum; preparing us to open our eyes and to discern.  For there is a spirit of anti Christ which is out to deny the faith upon which we behold.  The faith which we know to be true, yet many are in denial of it.   We must open our eyes and discern what we hear and from whom.  We must discern that of which is 'Word Void'. 

Blessings :Rose:


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## meka (May 6, 2009)

I guess I get what Bishop Jakes is saying, if in fact you heard right. No one knows where ANY sinners heart is at death. They could have made peace with the Lord, turned from their wicked ways. Say if they wake up that morning and had a revelation (someone could have been praying for their deliverance) and they decided to repent AND turn from their wicked ways, and that afternoon, the Lord saw fit to call them home. Are they going to hell? Or do we remember them being homosexual yesterday? There are many people on their deathbed who repent, accept the Lord as their saviour. Do you think the Lord hears them? I think He does and he acts accordingly. Now will they pay for their sins, most definately, we all will. Homosexual, liars, backbiters, idolaters, fornicators and adulterers.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 6, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm totally serious!  AND I'm fully aware of heterosexuals who are passing STD's around as well.  It all falls in line with sexual sin.
> 
> To wit... how does any of what you share 'JUSTIFY' homosexuality?  It is unrepented sin.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this post, sis.  You are so on point


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## Nice & Wavy (May 6, 2009)

meka said:


> I guess I get what Bishop Jakes is saying, if in fact you heard right. No one knows where ANY sinners heart is at death. They could have made peace with the Lord, turned from their wicked ways. Say if they wake up that morning and had a revelation (someone could have been praying for their deliverance) and they decided to repent AND turn from their wicked ways, and that afternoon, the Lord saw fit to call them home. Are they going to hell? Or do we remember them being homosexual yesterday? There are many people on their deathbed who repent, accept the Lord as their saviour. Do you think the Lord hears them? I think He does and he acts accordingly. Now will they pay for their sins, most definately, we all will. Homosexual, liars, backbiters, idolaters, fornicators and adulterers.


I have been by many a bedside of those who before they have taken their last breath, made the decision to give their hearts to Jesus Christ and make Him Lord of their lives.  That's what our goal is as Ministers of Reconcilliation....reconciling those who are lost, back to God.

By any means necessary!


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## sunnysmyler (May 6, 2009)

:blowkiss:  To You Sis Shimmie and Sis Nice n Wavy!!!! Have a great night ladies....got to be up in at 5am!!!!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 6, 2009)

sunnysmyler said:


> :blowkiss:  To You Sis Shimmie and Sis Nice n Wavy!!!! Have a great night ladies....got to be up in at 5am!!!!


And to you, sis sunnysmyler!  Blessings to you, always.


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## Shimmie (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Warning:  Strong Meat here !!!!!!*



Nice & Wavy said:


> Thank you, Shimmie. There are many of us who are being persecuted by THE CHURCH, and we are doing what we are suppose to do! It can be very disheartening and discouraging to even hear some of the things that are being said, not just here on the forum, but other places.
> 
> I am fully aware that there are those who are in the pulpits that are not correct...but, God will make sure that those that do, get their just rewards.
> 
> ...


You are among the faithful who never stagger nor waiver at the Truth!  Your loyalty as a Friend, Sister and Minister is a great treasure. 

I've just had it up to my roots with those who call themselves Christians and come up with the most foolish ideals and concepts and compromises.

Is they is, or is they ain't for Christ?  

Too many are wimpers.  I'm not backing down from my stand.    I've come too far and I paid a great price for my walk in Christ Jesus.  I'm not accepting a watered down Gospel from anyone. 

I love you and Mr. Wavy   with all of my heart.   The two of you are pure in Marriage and Ministry.....totally UNCOMPROMISED.  Totally for Christ Jesus and for one another.  

I Heart you both... :heart2:


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## Nice & Wavy (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Warning:  Strong Meat here !!!!!!*



Shimmie said:


> You are among the faithful who never stagger nor waiver at the Truth!  Your loyalty as a Friend, Sister and Minister is a great treasure.
> 
> I've just had it up to my roots with those who call themselves Christians and come up with the most foolish ideals and concepts and compromises.
> 
> ...


And we :heart2: you too, sis!  Thank you for those words of love and encouragement!  I so appreciate you...you know I do!

@ the bolded....you go girl!


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## Almaz (May 7, 2009)

Please no offense intended. I mean no malintent



Okay Then lets do this. I am not justifying anything but this is bases on stererotypes like saying ALL BLACK women are sexual fiends and video hos.  With the rate of Black women being infected with HIV through Hetrosexual sex is rising I am sure someone can use that to say that Look black women spreads AIDS. 


 We KNOW that is not true and when I am at the hospital 99% of the sexually transmitted diseases I see in women were in hetrosexual relationships not gay sex. 75% percent of these people are Black women. Which breaks my heart. Breaks my heart to the core because it is usually Black men that are doing this. Again breaks my heart. But unfortunately some people in our community don't want to talk about those things but this is something that needs to be brought out because if I see another HIV positive black woman that had NO idea she was infected because she was with the same man for 5+ years I am going to vomit. Because he was infected knew about it and did not tell her. Or he was with a women that was infected and did not tell him. Or he was going to church and living in the DL. 

I have 2 Preachers that I deal with right now that are both HIV positive but I don't mess with HIPPA. They both said that got it from Women. 1 I believe the other I question. 

I have worked in Churches in Chicago trying to help women with their reproductive health. I have worked with ministers trying to teach abstinance. (which I feel is the best policy)  Sometimes people listen and sometimes people are downright against it.


So I guess we don't need to talk about or post  any more colouring threads anymore because we don't need to hear how one colours. When they colour. Do they play music while colour, What position you colour in. How many times a month you colour. What music you listen to when you colour. Where you like to colour. How many times you colour in a week, month. How many times do you colour in the bathroom.  Where do you like to colour. Do you colour naked or with clothes on. Do you like to colour in Yoga positions. Karma Sutra positions LOLOLOL

And THEN come on the Christian site and talk About HOW SAVED someone is. When I know that a lot of these women probably some posting right now AIN'T married some never have been and some never will be. 

Just saying

But I guess that is okay since it is not homosexual sex as far as WE know of. After all this IS the internet. LOLOLOL

No offense intended.


But isn't that a sexual sin.  All I am saying is that these are people and just because they spread the word of G-d that does not mean that they alway abide by it. So don't get so disappointed when they screw up because they are human. 

I am always wary of Super preachers/Rabbis/Imams anyway cause sometimes their power gets overwhelming and they can be lead astray. Their influence can be overwhelming and it could lead a lot of people astray. I would not ever want to be in that position because that is a hell a burden on your shoulders. 

I am not justifying anything I just see the reality in my life dealing with people with these disases.  Gay and straight.

We all need to get right with G-d. No matter who we are. And how we treat people Gay or Straight. 

As far as gays are concerned they are here they are not going anywhere. Yes they are in your Churches, Mosques and Synagouges. Sometmes we know who they are and sometimes we don't. People in your family. That relative no one talks too. That cousin that is the "Black Sheep" of the family. That nephew that no one ever talks about because he is doing his own thing. The whispers of that cousin in where ever who has had the same room mate for 20 years.  That brother that is a "comfirmed Bachelor". The whispers you heard as a child regarding a certain relative. 

I get so tired of seeing Gay young men kicked out on the street in Chicago trying to find a way because their so-called "SAVED" family instead of trying to help him kick him out on the street with no money and no place to go.  Selling themselves to Straight and GAY men Married with families or single looking for some kick action. 

 How do we know and what can we do to help them repent if we do know? 

If you have suggestions that could help me in my work. I would really appreciate it. Because this is what I deal with on a daily basis. I am in the trenches. Some of the ministers I deal with are in the trenches trying to educate our community gay and straight. 

Thank you


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

meka said:


> I guess I get what Bishop Jakes is saying, if in fact you heard right. No one knows where ANY sinners heart is at death. They could have made peace with the Lord, turned from their wicked ways. Say if they wake up that morning and had a revelation (someone could have been praying for their deliverance) and they decided to repent AND turn from their wicked ways, and that afternoon, the Lord saw fit to call them home. Are they going to hell? Or do we remember them being homosexual yesterday?
> 
> *There are many people on their deathbed who repent, accept the Lord as their saviour.   Do you think the Lord hears them? I think He does and he acts accordingly. Now will they pay for their sins, most definately, we all will. Homosexual, liars, backbiters, idolaters, fornicators and adulterers.*


 
Meka this is so true... God does hear and accept their sincere prayers of repentance, at any point that one still has life in them. 

But many don't have this 'last chance'... some folks go to the very end in their sin.  

I will venture to say that many homosexuals are in Heaven with the Lord.  They may have been gay, but have chosen to abstain from the gay activity; as well as having a sincere heart that truly loves God and had no desire to be in that situation.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 7, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Meka this is so true... God does hear and accept their sincere prayers of repentance, at any point that one still has life in them.
> 
> *But many don't have this 'last chance'... some folks go to the very end in their sin.
> 
> I will venture to say that many homosexuals are in Heaven with the Lord.  They may have been gay, but have chosen to abstain from the gay activity; as well as having a sincere heart that truly loves God and had no desire to be in that situation*.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

Almaz said:


> Please no offense intended. I mean no malintent
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I mean no malintent either.  

AIDs or no AIDs, homosexuality is still wrong.   And there is still a higher percentage of AIDs among gay men (homosexual activity) than anyone else. "Straight" men are bringing this disease from prison; infecting their wives or girlfriends or casual sexual encounters, due to homosexual prison activity; which contributes to the maddness of this spread of heterosexual AIDs.  Yet it is still gay mainstream related.   Somewhere along the line, there was a gay encounter.   In all cases, *no*... the majority of cases, yes.    

And this is sad all around, no matter who has this disease.  So many lives are being destroyed by it.     

Your world is comprised of 'no hope', yet there is.  I can see why it's easy for you and others to give up and just accept what you see each day.  Yet you don't have to accept it. 

Donnie McClurkin has a Ministry for gays.

Dennis Jernigan is a Minister with a powerful testimony...

There's a Ministry called "Love One Out"

If you do a Google Search for Gay Ministry, Deliverance, Understanding, I'm sure you will find much help.  

Almaz, I know it looks helpless, but this is why we have Jesus.  We don't have to accept the negative we see.   Acknowledge it?  Yes, of course.  But to accept and count it as no hope, or without change, we don't have to.

The reason for what you see and deal with each day is the result of compromise; folks not taking a stand with God.  No matter what their 'title's' are, or their sexual activity, or gender, they simply did not adhere to what they knew to be of God.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Warning:  Strong Meat here !!!!!!*



Nice & Wavy said:


> And we :heart2: you too, sis! Thank you for those words of love and encouragement! I so appreciate you...you know I do!
> 
> @ the bolded....you go girl!


 
We've come too far.  Jesus didn't waste a drop of His Blood Covenant for us.   He stands 'Uncompromised..."  

If folks want to straddle the fence, then watch out for the pickets; they have pointed edges which can't be sat upon.


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## Almaz (May 7, 2009)

Nope my world is fine. In Hebrew we have a saying that every Jew is supposed to abide by. Called Tikkun Olam. Which means to do your part in repairing the worl. 

This is why I choose to work in Medicine to help heal people and this is why I work in the community OUR community because of the problems that are going on there.

Gave up I never said I gave up. And not all diseases that infected the women came from men in prison. Yes some of it is but from what I see a lot of the times it is not. It is from men being irresponsible with their sex lives. Only about 7% of those women got it from men that were in prison.

Most of these women are in their early 20's and they had boyfriends that never been to jail. Just busy. The other women that are older got it from men half had records half didn't.  White and Black

I don't accept the negative that I see I work to combat it. As you know I am not Christian I am Jewish but I work with a lot of Churches and I deeply appreciate the help that you gave me in dealing with Infected/Gay/Lesbian/Transgendered members of the Christian community. I will look this information up and pass it along to the ministers. 

Its not hopeless people need to be educated. Unfortunately I see the gay community really working hard to educate their community about diseases. But our community sometimes put their heads in the sand like ostriches. 

I appreciate you assistance I know this will help and I will let you know how it goes

Thank you Shimmie











Shimmie said:


> I mean no malintent either.
> 
> AIDs or no AIDs, homosexuality is still wrong. And there is still a higher percentage of AIDs among gay men (homosexual activity) than anyone else. "Straight" men are bringing this disease from prison; infecting their wives or girlfriends or casual sexual encounters, due to homosexual prison activity; which contributes to the maddness of this spread of heterosexual AIDs. Yet it is still gay mainstream related. Somewhere along the line, there was a gay encounter. In all cases, *no*... the majority of cases, yes.
> 
> ...


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## msa (May 7, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I mean no malintent either.
> 
> AIDs or no AIDs, homosexuality is still wrong.*   And there is still a higher percentage of AIDs among gay men (homosexual activity) than anyone else. *"Straight" men are bringing this disease from prison; infecting their wives or girlfriends or casual sexual encounters, *due to homosexual prison activity*; which contributes to the maddness of this spread of heterosexual AIDs.  *Yet it is still gay mainstream related.   Somewhere along the line, there was a gay encounter.*   In all cases, *no*... *the majority of cases, yes.    *




Apparently, I need to do some research. This is new information to me.

And, even if HIV originates with a gay person, according to you it's being spread from "straight" men outta of jail to women...which last time I checked required a *heterosexual* act. So I don't see how most of the blame is placed on homosexuals.


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## msa (May 7, 2009)

Almaz said:


> Its not hopeless people need to be educated. Unfortunately I see the gay community really working hard to educate their community about diseases. But our community sometimes put their heads in the sand like ostriches.



So true. I see more misinformation and lies from the Christian community than from anyone else. We need to deal in facts, not scare tactics and propaganda.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

msa said:


> Apparently, I need to do some research. This is new information to me.
> 
> And, even if HIV originates with a gay person, according to you it's being spread from "straight" men outta of jail to women...which last time I checked required a *heterosexual* act. So I don't see how most of the blame is placed on homosexuals.


 You missed it.


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## msa (May 7, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> You missed it.




Yup, I think I did.

I'm going to do some research on it because what you stated is definitely new to me. If you have any links or anything I'd really appreciate it.


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## Almaz (May 7, 2009)

okay I have another question again no malintent. So how do you explain this in Africa where homosexuality can get you killed in some places. But yet South Africa has one of the highest rates of AIDS in the world. 99% hetro sex. 

Do you think it was blood or do you think it started with sexual contact. What about people who had blood transfusions like Arthur Ashe and passed it on.


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## momi (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Warning:  Strong Meat here !!!!!!*



Shimmie said:


> We've come too far. Jesus didn't waste a drop of His Blood Covenant for us. He stands 'Uncompromised..."
> 
> *If folks want to straddle the fence, then watch out for the pickets; they have pointed edges which can't be sat upon*.


 

Making note of the bolded for future reference.

On another note: my heart breaks for all sin, but what breaks my heart the most about homosexuality is what it has done do our men and what it is doing to our community.  Our communities have so many issues and one of them is a lack of male role models and leadership.  I just want to ask the gay guys - dont you see what is happening to our families, our communities? _Dont you see that we need you?_  We need your strength and masculinity! Our young men need to see what it looks like for a man to love and honor "one woman" - to be the head of a strong family unit. They dont need to see you laid up with some man and being softer than a woman.  (I know all gay guys are not soft and many are active in the community so dont start)

B Scott - Ru Paul - E Lynn Harris .... those could have been some child's father, some woman's husband!  I dont understand the single women that are all giddy about their "gay" guy friends.  Dont they see that those guys are subtracting from the number of eligible men??

<<< sigh >>>

I will continue to pray and speak the truth of God's word.  His truth will make us all free... besides all is not lost.  He always leaves a remnant.

Pastor Foster


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Warning:  Strong Meat here !!!!!!*



momi said:


> Making note of the bolded for future reference.
> 
> *On another note: my heart breaks for all sin, but what breaks my heart the most about homosexuality is what it has done do our men and what it is doing to our community. Our communities have so many issues and one of them is a lack of male role models and leadership.*
> 
> ...


It grieves my spirit as well to see the demise of strong men, especially Black ones.   

Not 'all' men have to be gay; neither all women.  It's a cop out.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

msa said:


> Yup, I think I did.
> 
> *I'm going to do some research on it because what you stated is definitely new to me.* If you have any links or anything I'd really appreciate it.


  msa, No you won't.    

You've made your stance quite clear.  

No matter what links, one may present, your stand is stanchly  supportive of homosexuality, meaning the lifestyle and it's agenda to present itsself as normal and on the same level as heterosexuals; trying to change the pure meaning, definition, God's intent for Marriage which is solely that of between a man and a woman.   

That's your choice.   That's your free will.   Run with it.  

But it's not Christian.   It's a lie; a mass of sexual confusion which has imposed itsself upon humanity and society.  

No links, no statistics, no marches, no supreme court judges overuling the will of the people;  no changes in the constitution; not even if our President, whom I love dearly decides to 'wimp out', can change the fact that there is a massive overgrowth of sexual confusion in the gay lifestyle.    It is what it is....and it's not normal.   

Let me be clear.   I am NOT bashing the humanity of a homosexual.   They are living, loving, human beings precious in the heart of God.  They do not deserve to be mistreated as human beings.    But there is a line that must be drawn with the bounds they are trying to cross and take over.   Heterosexuals ... non gays have rights to protect as well.


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## sunnysmyler (May 7, 2009)

This is where my heart is regarding this.......

I too feel sorry for anyone who is outside of the will of GOD,  because GOD said in HIS word that it isn't HIS will that ANY man should perrish!!! With that being said, we know that there are many ppl, living in WILLFUL sin and lovin it, don't wanna change, and unfortunately will never change because their hearts have been hardened to GOD.

But like Shimmie said in an earlier reply...When PROMINENT men and women of GOD, go before the NATION via television and hold conference after conference, influencing stoopid amounts of ppl, all across this continent (meaning, not just America), it weakens the church. We as believers should be SOUNDING the Alarm, praying and fasting, that the scales will be removed from their eyes (the preachers who are out of whack) and who need to be removed or something, I just know GOD need to get them out of the lime light, because they are making a mockery of our faith.

Listen, I work in Law Enforcement and the non believers are very Vocal (I am too, but many a time, I'm out numbered). And every time some information comes out about a fallen pastor or a prominent couple in ministry divorcing, ppl, point, laugh and say that we're fake or false in our faith. I know the same happens in other faiths as well, ie...a Catholic Priest here in S. Florida was seen loving up on some woman at the beach, and boy are the ppl up in an uproar. True situations like that show that "man is weak", but do you not think that some person's faith has now been shattered by that one Prominent Priest lack of self control.

The same goes for us as believers....We are and Should be held to a higher standard. What more for someone who is on World Wide television, urging ppl (some very poor) to send a seed offering so that they can continue to "spread the GOOD NEWS", but in the dark they are living double lives, flirting and engaging in same sex sexual relations, come'on PEOPLE OF GOD. 

They need to be called out, especially when their deeds are being done in the open and possibly effecting MILLIONS of people.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

sunnysmyler said:


> This is where my heart is regarding this.......
> 
> I too feel sorry for anyone who is outside of the will of GOD, because GOD said in HIS word that it isn't HIS will that ANY man should perrish!!! With that being said, we know that there are many ppl, living in WILLFUL sin and lovin it, don't wanna change, and unfortunately will never change because their hearts have been hardened to GOD.
> 
> ...




Why is it that 'we', who hold fast to the things of God have to be quiet, timid, pushed into the background, and not even breathe a word that something is wrong when it is indeed wrong?

Ummm, is there a 'link' for that?    

The word of God is the only remedy for what ails this sick and dying world.    It's because of the absence of God and the rebellion against Him, that this entire world's economy has failed.    Men (male and female -- mankind)  doing what 'they' want to do, their way.    I don't care what they titles are, it's still by their fruits that determine where their hearts are and the consequences thereof.  

It's sad that we have Christians and Ministers who have compromised the Truth,  punked out... wimped out in the public media.   

Right now, gays are literrally being displayed upon pedestals.   There's a game plan to present them as the innocent preyed upon victims being denied human rights.    

Please!   What gives them the right to overturn heterosexual rights?  

It's total selfishness and stepping out of bounds to try and change Marriage.  

It's wrong for them to invade our schools and to try and influence our children with programs such as Cooties to take away the rights of parents to teach their children right from wrong.  

I disagree with both gay marriage - *and - *gay civil unions.   And it's wrong to accuse Christians of being the dogmatic ones when in truth, it's the gay agenda with all of the bark and drool.   

As Christians we have to stand strong.   We have to step up.  This gay business is pushing its self way too far and by the Grace of God, I don't intend to let it happen.  There are bounds that should be respected.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

Almaz said:


> okay I have another question again no malintent. So how do you explain this in Africa where homosexuality can get you killed in some places. But yet South Africa has one of the highest rates of AIDS in the world. 99% hetro sex.
> 
> Do you think it was blood or do you think it started with sexual contact. What about people who had blood transfusions like Arthur Ashe and passed it on.


Honest Question:  

Are you using this to justify homosexuality?   If so, how does it?  

Just an honest question.  No malintent.    I actually respect where you are coming from.


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## MizzBrown (May 7, 2009)

msa said:


> *Ok I'm sorry but what?*
> 
> *When did the "homosexual lifestyle" automatically equal having 10-20 partners a week and ingesting/handling fecal matter?*
> 
> ...


 
Girl, get out of MY HEAD!! 

As soon as i saw this I discounted this entire thread and only kept reading to see if someone was gonna post what i was thinking.

I am so tired of seeing this kind of mess up in here.

Why do folks still assume that gays are promiscuous?


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## btrflyrose (May 7, 2009)

MizzBrown said:


> Girl, get out of MY HEAD!!
> 
> As soon as i saw this I discounted this entire thread and only kept reading to see if someone was gonna post what i was thinking.
> 
> ...



Even if it was just one partner...mating for life, if you will, it'd still be wrong.

And you know, I usually stay out of the 'gay discussions' because of how ugly they can become sometimes.

But we know it's a sin.  We know that lifestyle does not line up with the word of God.  Just like any other sin.

And if there was a strong push from the world to allow murderers freedom  to kill just because it violated their rights, I would expect there to be a huge uproar from those of the Christian faith as well.

But we are now being bombarded with the gay agenda at every turn, from the media, from the state, from government.  They are making it so that everyone has to accept the fact that having intercourse with someone of the same sex is okay.  And that we should turn a blind eye and not say anything.

Acceptance, Rights to Marry, Protection, etc... And if that did not indeed seep over, ooze out, to then latch on to something that is of the LORD, then I wouldn't give it a second thought.  I'd pray about those worldly people and keep it movin'.

My question has always been and will always be though, why do you want to get married before God?  Why do you want to be accepted in church by Christianity when you don't accept its creed, word and biblical rules if you know for a fact you do not want to stop the sin.

I would ask those questions of any group and any sin.

But the fact remains, this is being pushed by someone or something, which purpose I still don't understand.  And since it's being pushed so hard, Christians are going to and should always speak out against it.


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## blazingthru (May 7, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I have been by many a bedside of those who before they have taken their last breath, made the decision to give their hearts to Jesus Christ and make Him Lord of their lives. That's what our goal is as Ministers of Reconcilliation....reconciling those who are lost, back to God.
> 
> By any means necessary!


 
I do not mean any harm none whatsoever, but you (not you) know people know about God right? most everyone now knows about God and how Jesus died for their sins. They might not know a lot but they mostly know the basics right? most people--- don't you find that its odd that they wait until their last breath to acknowledge that Jesus is lord of their life and then they pass from this life. I believe that God does allow certian people to enter. I believe if your broken in heart and spirit, I dont' think you can just say these words and then your entering into the kingdom. I just find that to be so not okay. So I can go around committing all kinds of mayheim and with my dying breath say Jesus is lord and make it over you know they say that out in the streets. I'll do it when I am just about to die. so there is no real committment.  This is is just something to think about.  Now I have not study this out but I read the passage where Jesus gets baptized for the people that are not able to because of illness, or prison or whatever that comes up that prevents you from being able to do it yourself but again like the man on the cross with Jesus he was broken hearted and he didnt even ask to enter into heaven he just wanted jesus to remember him and Jesus did so much more for him.  I am not discounting anything anyone has said on this thread just this is something to think about don't you agree.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I do not mean any harm none whatsoever, but you (not you) know people know about God right? most everyone now knows about God and how Jesus died for their sins. They might not know a lot but they mostly know the basics right? most people--- don't you find that its odd that they wait until their last breath to acknowledge that Jesus is lord of their life and then they pass from this life.
> 
> I believe that God does allow certian people to enter. I believe if your broken in heart and spirit, I dont' think you can just say these words and then your entering into the kingdom. I just find that to be so not okay.
> 
> ...


It does seem unjust and unfair....  

But then I think of the Prodical Son, (Luke 16) who rebelled against his father; demanded his inheritance and then moved away and lived like the devil and when he 'came to himself', and saw the evil of his ways, he repented, full heartedly.   

And his father welcomed him home with open arms, put a ring upon his finger, and a garment upon his back.   He commanded his servants to kill the fatted calf and to prepare a grand feast for a full celebration.    

All awhile the older brother who never rebelled, neither broken the laws, resented the grand reception that was given to his brother who had broken every law in the book and now was so royally treated.  

The only explanation given for this is that ' My son who was once lost, has now been found."     

God yearns for His lost sons and daughters.   He created us all from His likeness, His being, His heart and soul.    He didn't care that satan and his host of angels rebelled against Him.   Yet it breaks His heart to see one of us, go astray and be mislead into a life of destruction, which leads to death, hell and the grave, which was designed for satan and his cohorts.  

When a man or woman, no matter what sin they've been in, comes to God with a broken spirit and a contrite heart, God says 'THIS' He will not dispise...He will not turn away; He will not condemn.    Instead He will welcome them with open heart and open arms, for eternity.  

All the more reason, we as Christians have to fight for what is right.  If we allow folks to continue to push for gay 'wrongs', and compromise and say nothing, then there will never be a true awareness of repentance.   

This is what Christians and Ministers have to be aware of before they jump so quickly to defend gay 'wrongs'.    They are actually doing more harm than good for them.   Their message to gays is, 'continue in sin', there's no consequence.' 

homosexuality is a very strong spirit; a strong hold indeed; for it is attached to the soulish realm.  It's also a spirit of blindness and mass deception.  For it blinds those who are victims of it and those who support it.    However, it can be broken; gays can be delivered.  Jesus paid the price of it upon the Cross as He paid for every sin.   

All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God; yet anyone who comes unto the Lord asking for forgiveness, He will in no wise cast out; not even gays.


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## Laela (May 7, 2009)

Great blog.. My pastor rebukes this "lifestyle" all the time. I agree totally with this author. God created all that's natural... homosexuality IS NOT natural, therefore it is not of God. I do know there are "reformed homosexuals" in churches who are really trying to please God and keep away from that lifestyle..I applaud them for fighting their demons.


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## Almaz (May 7, 2009)

No I was just asking a question





Shimmie said:


> Honest Question:
> 
> Are you using this to justify homosexuality? If so, how does it?
> 
> Just an honest question. No malintent. I actually respect where you are coming from.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

Almaz said:


> No I was just asking a question


Okay....


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

I wanted to share something from an unbiased source (a source not based upon a Christian (moral) perspective).   

Link.... 

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/lehrman.pdf

*Morbidity, Mortality, and Morality:
the Social Impact of Homosexuality​* 
A striking but little-discussed aspect of homosexual activity today is it's associated reduction in behavioral control. We all have forbidden sexual drives that we restrain, but for those engaging in homosexual behavior, that restraint seems much reduced.

One result has been blatant promiscuity among homosexuals.

A 1978 study reported that: 

75 percent of male homosexuals had been with 100 or more partners; 
28 percent, the largest subcategory, reported more than 1,000 partners; 
79 percent said more than half their partners were strangers; and 
79 percent said more than half their partners were men with whom they had sex only once.

Another survey 16 years later found that while...

67.6 percent of men and 75.5 percent of women had only one sex partner in the previous year, only 2.6 percent of men and 1.2 percent of women engaging in same-sex relationships 
had thus limited themselves.

Supporters of homosexuality, and advocates of gay marriage, rarely acknowledge the many partners gays have.including those living together as couples.​*​

The medical dangers of homosexuality are also underemphasized.

Its devotees show much higher rates of sexually transmitted disease, substance abuse, and mental illness. 

While they comprise only about 2 percent of the population, homosexuals represented 21 percent of hepatitis B cases in 1988, and 44 percent of new human immuno deficiency virus (HIV) cases between 2000 and 2003.  They contract syphilis at a rate three to four times higher than nonhomosexuals. 

Anal intercourse causes hemorrhoids, anal fissures, anorectal trauma, and retained foreign bodies, and creates high risk for anal cancer. Among male homosexuals engaging in oral-to-anal contact, an extremely high rate of parasitic and other intestinal infections exists.

Homosexuality is also associated with higher mortality.  

A major Canadian medical center found the life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men was 8 to 20 years less than that for all men.

It further estimated that nearly half of today.s gay and bisexual 20-year-olds would not reach their 65th birthday.

While the AMA's official statement on homosexuality mentions the need to work nonjudgmentally with the gay and lesbian community, in order to understand its members, medical
needs,    it says nothing about the unique nature of those needs or the promiscuous, disease-spreading behavior patterns that aggravate them. 

It's encyclopedia article also omits any mention of associated medical dangers. And even though homosexuals seeking to change often succeed in doing so (frequently with the aid of therapy), the
AMA statement, by publicly opposing reparative or conversion therapy based on the assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation, seems to take an implicit
moral position of denying that such change should occur.

American concepts and attitudes about homosexuality have changed significantly in recent decades.  Most of society and the medical profession now view it as an acceptable alternate lifestyle: a biologically determined, permanent orientation, rather than a learned, experiential, and often changeable choice. 

The concept of homosexuality as a permanent orientation is, however, without scientific validation; 

..... the notion is entirely politically grounded.

One effect of this new view has been to understate the medical and societal harm produced by the promiscuous sexual practices typically associated with homosexuality.​*---------------------------------

This is serious..... ​*​*


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (May 7, 2009)

sunnysmyler said:


> I*t's tragic because the devil has set men up in our churches to condone this behavior as well as participate in it. These men rule over large amounts of people and they slowly but surely promote themselves to the forefront of ministry only to progressively gain the approval of their audiences before they pulled a fast one one them. Yes, that's right, they were patient enough to get the folks full of them before they began launching their gay subliminal agendas and now, people are hooked on them and can't seem to shake free from them.*
> 
> l



I think that no one can make you become gay.  Either the tendancy is there or it's not.  Perhaps they tempt people to let it out of the closet.


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## remnant (May 7, 2009)

meka said:


> I guess I get what Bishop Jakes is saying, if in fact you heard right. No one knows where ANY sinners heart is at death. They could have made peace with the Lord, turned from their wicked ways. Say if they wake up that morning and had a revelation (someone could have been praying for their deliverance) and they decided to repent AND turn from their wicked ways, and that afternoon, the Lord saw fit to call them home. Are they going to hell? Or do we remember them being homosexual yesterday? There are many people on their deathbed who repent, accept the Lord as their saviour. Do you think the Lord hears them? I think He does and he acts accordingly. Now will they pay for their sins, most definately, we all will. Homosexual, liars, backbiters, idolaters, fornicators and adulterers.


 

Amen and amen


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## Mortons (May 7, 2009)

msa said:


> Are you really for serious?
> 
> I mean really really.
> 
> ...



What Shimmie said is untrue. Matter a fact, gay women have the lowest STD rate. Black heterosexual women in the U.S have the highest rate of HIV as well has other STD's. Also, gays have a lower dating pool so chances are they are switching partners much less than the heterosexual community, if we look it the population numerically. 

Making gays the scapegoat and constantly talking about gay "issues hurting the church" is not helping at all. I wish someone would wake up and see that. We should focus on things like the aforementioned paragraph, to get our community back in order. However, I know this will fall on deaf ears, but its worth a shot erplexed


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## Nice & Wavy (May 7, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I do not mean any harm none whatsoever, but you (not you) know people know about God right? most everyone now knows about God and how Jesus died for their sins. They might not know a lot but they mostly know the basics right? most people--- don't you find that its odd that they wait until their last breath to acknowledge that Jesus is lord of their life and then they pass from this life. I believe that God does allow certian people to enter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just by this alone, I will stay out of the CF.

Blessings to all of you.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Just by this alone, I will stay out of the CF.
> 
> Blessings to all of you.


Too many people love you and need you here.  I'm surely your number one supporter, next to Jesus.

Although we'll be talking outside of this forum, I'm putting this out there just to make it known that satan is not having his way.   This forum needs the strength that God has endowed you and your husband with.    The same way, God used you to keep me from leaving, likewise for you.   

I'm serving notice to any who may have hoped you'd leave, that you have now become their worse headache.   We're not backing down.  The enemy wants this forum 'lost' and without the true stand of God's word.  It will not be anything goes.  If it means that I among the faithful few will be God's remnant still standing, than so be it.  

Jesus is still Lord and it's not changing....


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## meka (May 7, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Just by this alone, I will stay out of the CF.
> 
> Blessings to all of you.


 

I know you are not gonna let the enemy run you out of here? This is "our" house and it's built of the Word of God. And if satan doesn't like it, so what!! We are called to be bold and stand against the wiles of the enemy!! We are here to support one another, we may not always agree but we cannot let confusion run us away.


ETA: I am in no way calling blazingthru the devil, satan or the enemy...


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## inthepink (May 7, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Just by this alone, I will stay out of the CF.
> 
> Blessings to all of you.



Please don't leave.  I look at it like this.  There are some mature Christians here and there are some (like me) who are not quite mature yet.  So, sometimes we do say things or question because we don't quite understand.  No one explained it before or maybe we never asked.  But then someone like Shimmie comes along and breaks it down for us.

Just something to consider.  We need you here to break things down for us, too. 

ETA:  I'll use myself as an example.  When I first became a Christian, I had a hard time believing that being gay was a sin.  I did not know the bible and I thought, "well, they are not hurting anyone."  Boy, was I wrong.  And I have been set straight and convicted.  You do need to have the desire to please God and learn what is pleasing to Him.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Please don't leave. I look at it like this. There are some mature Christians here and there are some (like me) who are not quite mature yet. So, sometimes we do say things or question because we don't quite understand. No one explained it before or maybe we never asked. But then someone like Shimmie comes along and breaks it down for us.
> 
> Just something to consider. We need you here to break things down for us, too.
> 
> ETA: I'll use myself as an example. When I first became a Christian, I had a hard time believing that being gay was a sin. I did not know the bible and I thought, "well, they are not hurting anyone." Boy, was I wrong. And I have been set straight and convicted. You do need to have the desire to please God and learn what is pleasing to Him.


Hairlove, you may not realize it, but you are one of the Pillars that keep us steady and standing.    We're all 'one' in Christ Jesus, and we need each other to bring forth His purpose and plan. 

We'll still stand and fight regardless, nevertheless, I thank God for you and others like you.   

You too, Little Meka...


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## momi (May 7, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Just by this alone, I will stay out of the CF.
> 
> Blessings to all of you.


 

Chile Please. 

The enemy and his followers are big and bold daring you to speak the truth.  They are not hardly backing down unless they allow Christ to reign in their lives.  Even though he is already defeated, you leaving the CF gives him a pseudo victory.  Every voice of truth is needed - light will always shine in darkness. 

We need you.


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## Shimmie (May 7, 2009)

momi said:


> Chile Please.
> 
> The enemy and his followers are big and bold daring you to speak the truth. They are not hardly backing down unless they allow Christ to reign in their lives. Even though he is already defeated, you leaving the CF gives him a pseudo victory. Every voice of truth is needed - light will always shine in darkness.
> 
> We need you.


 

Thank you, momi...


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## Mortons (May 7, 2009)

What did blazingthru say that was bad? Accusing people of being followers of the enemy is kinda taking it a little far. Everyone who has a dissenting opinion about a topic is not a minion of Satan.


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## msa (May 8, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> msa, No you won't.
> 
> You've made your stance quite clear.
> 
> ...



For someone who is a Christian, it's interesting how quick you are to judge what I will and won't do. Let me clear up my stance since you've gotten it completely mistaken.

As I said from the beginning, my issue is the blatant prejudice and lies that were posted. To say that gays have 10-20 partners *a week* as part of the "gay lifestyle" is a gross exaggeration and just out and out wrong. Every gay person on the planet does not have 10-20 partners a week. Every gay person is not promiscuous. Every gay person is not spreading disease.

To lump a group of people together and assign negative attributes to all based on a few people's actions is not fair nor is it right. How are you recognizing an individuals humanity if you've already decided who they are, what they are, and how they act based on one characteristic?

*Pointing out a false statement does not equal justification or support.* If someone said the "black woman's lifestyle" includes being half naked and sleeping with men indiscriminately for money/things based on seeing black women in music videos or hearing about them in rap songs, you would be quick to point out the problem with that statement. That does not mean you are endorsing being a video girl.



Shimmie said:


> But it's not Christian.   It's a lie; a mass of sexual confusion which has imposed itsself upon humanity and society.
> 
> No links, no statistics, no marches, no supreme court judges overuling the will of the people;  no changes in the constitution; not even if our President, whom I love dearly decides to 'wimp out', can change the fact that there is a massive overgrowth of sexual confusion in the gay lifestyle.    It is what it is....and it's not normal.



You're right. Nothing and no one here on this earth can change the fact that according to mainstream Christianity, homosexual acts are a sin. Nothing I said even implied different.

The only part of this I took issue with was the propaganda and outright untruths. It is not Christian to be prejudiced toward any group of people. It is not Christian to spread lies. As Christians, we should be worried about doing what's right so that we can be example to those we are trying to influence.



Shimmie said:


> Let me be clear.   I am NOT bashing the humanity of a homosexual.   They are living, loving, human beings precious in the heart of God.  They do not deserve to be mistreated as human beings.    But there is a line that must be drawn with the bounds they are trying to cross and take over.   Heterosexuals ... non gays have rights to protect as well.



*If gays deserve to be treated as human beings, then we as Christians should be the first ones to make sure that we aren't breeding prejudice against them by supporting outrageous stereotypes.*

Christianity's ministry against homosexuality has been steeped in lies, bigotry, and outright hate. Perhaps it's time for Christian's to rethink their strategy, since it appears that while a couple battles may have been won, they've definitely lost the war. *It's possible to take a stand in love, maybe Christian's should try it.*


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## blazingthru (May 8, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> It does seem unjust and unfair....
> 
> But then I think of the Prodical Son, (Luke 16) who rebelled against his father; demanded his inheritance and then moved away and lived like the devil and when he 'came to himself', and saw the evil of his ways, he repented, full heartedly.
> 
> ...


 
I agree Shimmie, I agree that God forgives you when your broken when you see your helpless and you need him. I believe that at that point he reveals himself to you. Please do no misunderstand me I have *close* family members that are gay and I am praying for them and hoping for them to turn their life around. I know if they choose to they can do it with the Lords help. I was told by one that his flesh is so weak and he can't help it. God freely gives us the victory over many many things all we do is ask, and believe. It hurt me because I love him dearly and he is sick now. I was mostly talking about dying. Like Noah when he was working on the ark you know he ministered he preached the entire time no one was listening but some say oh when the rain comes I'll get onboard. You don't have to read that to know some was thinking that but God shut the door before the rain even fell. ( I am sure some were going to try and break in there too)  THey lost out on their opportunity because they decided to wait until the last minute. This is what I am saying.  Yes some won't make it over in their last breath, some will. some believe they are saved right now. trust in it but they are not saved. Because they never served God with their entire heart even in dying they confess without really believing it.  I was not discounting any thing anyone has said.


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## sunnysmyler (May 8, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Just by this alone, I will stay out of the CF.
> 
> Blessings to all of you.


 

Hole-Up!!!! I just know Sis Nice & Wavy ain't backin' down, runnin out of the enemy's camp!!!!! Girl like so many of the other sisters in here said, we have to Stomp on the devil's head, and putting out information, uncovering his lies is just one way we are giving other believers a "heads up"!!!!

Come back, please don't stay gone.


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## momi (May 8, 2009)

msa said:


> For someone who is a Christian, it's interesting how quick you are to judge what I will and won't do. Let me clear up my stance since you've gotten it completely mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 _how do you suggest this take place? it seems like anytime one speaks against the lifestyle by expressing the truth of the bible or just simple disagreement with the act then one is labeled a bigot and/or hater. _


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## momi (May 8, 2009)

Mortons said:


> What did blazingthru say that was bad? Accusing people of being followers of the enemy is kinda taking it a little far. Everyone who has a dissenting opinion about a topic is not a minion of Satan.


 

According to Matthew 12 and Luke 11 - Either you are for Him or against Him - there is no neutrality with God.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 8, 2009)

Just that you all know, I'm not afraid of the enemy and he is not running me out of CF.  I'm tired of some of the ridiculous threads/posts/comments made in here, and that makes me want to leave.

I'm looking to get some results. We need to stop preaching to the choir and begin focusing on the souls of man.  If I were in church and the only thing my pastor preached about was "the devil, the devil, the devil" and didn't talk about God the Father and His goodness and His mercy and especially His love, I would not be a happy camper

There are too many people who's lives are affected by some of the comments made here (and I'm not talking about the gay threads...there are things that need to be said, so say it) and although we may need to say some things (Lord knows I've said mine) we must always remember that its not always those things that we need to keep speaking about ALL THE TIME...no, there are many other things that pertain to life that will uplift and bless the lives of those who read these threads.

Christianity is a lifestyle...its not a religion.  Some of these posts are religious and its beginning to get annoying to me.  I have that right to say it, therefore I'm saying it.

I meet and minister to sooooooo many people.  I lead them in prayer for salvation I can say, almost every, single day.  This is what I live for...to see lives changed...broken lives restored.  Jesus came for that very reason and He said that greater works than what He did, shall we do.

I'm not seeing those greater works here...yes, even in text lives can be restored and broken hearts changed.  We are real people with real issues in this forum....this is not make believe.

The pm's I get and the prayers that go on in pm land are powerful.   Phone numbers are exchanged and talking to others are a great thing.  It's a ministry for me and I do it to the best of my abilities.  There are many who come out of lurking, just to pm to talk, because they don't want to come into the CF because they are leary about some of the things that are said and are afraid to say what they are dealing with because they are reading some things that put them off. On the other hand, there are those who come in and praise some things that are said here and look forward to join in on the conversations

I think we ALL need to take a good look at ourselves in that mirror the bible talks about and see that we need to re-check ourselves....while always remembering that our sufficiency comes from the Father, and not ourselves. I will be the first one to admit this...it must start with me.

Some may think that I'm being harsh or over the top with my post...that's ok..I'm use to it.  But one thing I can say for certain...I want Jesus to be seen in and through me...even in my text, no matter what I'm writing about.

I'm done now.  Have a wonderful day, ladies!


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## LadyPaniolo (May 8, 2009)

Wait, I think I just figured out what this thread title was supposed to mean! 

Not strong meAt here, strong meEt here. I was majorly confused... I was like what kinda meat is she talking about?


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## Shimmie (May 8, 2009)

msa said:


> *Christianity's ministry against homosexuality has been steeped in lies, bigotry, and outright hate.*
> 
> Perhaps it's time for Christian's to rethink their strategy, since it appears that while a couple battles may have been won, they've definitely lost the war.   *It's possible to take a stand in love, maybe Christian's should try it. *


 
Now this is an 'extreme' exerageration.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 8, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Now this is an 'extreme' exerageration.


It most certainly is....what I see is a person who doesn't even have a clue


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## Shimmie (May 8, 2009)

momi said:


> _how do you suggest this take place? it seems like anytime one speaks against the lifestyle by expressing the truth of the bible or just simple disagreement with the act then one is labeled a bigot and/or hater. _


 
You are not only on point, but you spoke all of this in love.


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## divya (May 8, 2009)

This is why it is important stand firm on true Biblical principles. In these last days, they will be attacked from every angle - the issue of homosexuality is just one. As far as pastors who seem as though they are not taking a stand or some people who are on their dying bed etc., the Lord knows their heart and level of sincerity. The same goes for all of us. God tells us in His Word...

*Matthew 7:21-23* - _Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity._

So it is true that not everyone who cries out "Lord, Lord" will make it. God is looking for those who truly love Him and live by the light that is given them.


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## Shimmie (May 8, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> It most certainly is....what I see is a person who doesn't even have a clue


I left you a voice mail this morning before my train went underground (before I lost the signal  ).    Gotta love those 'L's'  ....  

When I think about how 'we' (as Blacks) were bashed and harrassed by gays after Prop 8....   I wonder... who are the true haters.  

Christians saying 'no' to homosexuality and standing firm upon it, doesn't mean we hate homosexuals.   

Why am I explaining this?      No matter what I say or don't say, unless it pro-gay, it's going to be judged as hatred.   

I'm out to please God, not man.


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## divya (May 8, 2009)

Mortons said:


> What did blazingthru say that was bad? Accusing people of being followers of the enemy is kinda taking it a little far. Everyone who has a dissenting opinion about a topic is not a minion of Satan.



Thank you...it's so sad that some have resorted to labeling others in such a manner or stating that someone doesn't have clue simply due to differences in beliefs. If that how we react to others, how will we win souls for the Lord?


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## Nice & Wavy (May 8, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I left you a voice mail this morning before my train went underground (before I lost the signal  ).    Gotta love those 'L's'  ....
> 
> When I think about how 'we' (as Blacks) were bashed and harrassed by gays after Prop 8....   I wonder... who are the true haters.
> 
> ...


I haven't turned my phone on yet...I will call you later when you get off.

I'm learning that just because people say "I'm a christian", don't mean anything anymore.  

Hearing what people say, tells where they truly are in this life.

Just for folks to know, I had a cousin who got killed because he was a homosexual. The person killed him and didn't think anything of it.  Come to find out the person who killed him was NOT a Christian!  

I loved him, hated the sin he was involved in.  No one deserves to die the way he did...no one.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 8, 2009)

You know what...it's not even worth my text.


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## inthepink (May 8, 2009)

divya said:


> This is why it is important stand firm on true Biblical principles. In these last days, they will be attacked from every angle - the issue of homosexuality is just one. As far as pastors who seem as though they are not taking a stand or some people who are on their dying bed etc., the Lord knows their heart and level of sincerity. The same goes for all of us. God tells us in His Word...
> 
> *Matthew 7:21-23* - _Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity._
> 
> So it is true that not everyone who cries out "Lord, Lord" will make it. God is looking for those who truly love Him and live by the light that is given them.



Thank you for saying this!  It's a point that I think totally got missed and misunderstood.


----------



## Shimmie (May 8, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I haven't turned my phone on yet...I will call you later when you get off.
> 
> I'm learning that just because people say "I'm a christian", don't mean anything anymore.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry about your cousin....    I know you loved him and that you still do.   

We're in a spiritual battle and at the end, All will bow and say Jesus is Lord.


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## PaperClip (May 8, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Just by this alone, I will stay out of the CF.
> 
> Blessings to all of you.


 
You know what? I haven't read this thread and I probably won't and I know that sometimes Jesus walked away (well, only one time He did) but the rest of those times He stood His ground so my dear sis, know that you are not standing ALONE....

***I gotta dash because my interview just showed up but TRUST, I'll be back to finish this post....***


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## Nice & Wavy (May 8, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm sorry about your cousin....    I know you loved him and that you still do.
> 
> We're in a spiritual battle and at the end, All will bow and say Jesus is Lord.


Thank you, sis.  Yes, he was older but I loved him, nevertheless.

We are in a battle...its just a shame that we have to battle each other though....*sigh* No wonder the 'church' is in such disarray

You are right...every knee SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 8, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> You know what? I haven't read this thread and I probably won't and I know that sometimes Jesus walked away (well, only one time He did) but the rest of those times He stood His ground so my dear sis, know that you are not standing ALONE....
> 
> ***I gotta dash because my interview just showed up but TRUST, I'll be back to finish this post....***


You are so right, sis...so right.

I'm going to the beach now...so I will return to read what you have to say

I'm gettin all tanned and stuff....


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## Shimmie (May 8, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> You are so right, sis...so right.
> 
> I'm going to the beach now...so I will return to read what you have to say
> 
> *I'm gettin all tanned and stuff*....


 
I'm so 'jealous'     I'm so pale from the winter, I don't even need a light at night, I glow in the dark.  

I guess this makes me a true Light...  

You and hubby enjoy,  You deserve this trip.


----------



## divya (May 8, 2009)

msa said:


> For someone who is a Christian, it's interesting how quick you are to judge what I will and won't do. Let me clear up my stance since you've gotten it completely mistaken.
> 
> As I said from the beginning, my issue is the blatant prejudice and lies that were posted. To say that gays have 10-20 partners *a week* as part of the "gay lifestyle" is a gross exaggeration and just out and out wrong. Every gay person on the planet does not have 10-20 partners a week. Every gay person is not promiscuous. Every gay person is not spreading disease.
> 
> ...



Thank you for pointing this out.  I initially skimmed the first post so quickly that I missed that statistic, which among other statements seems highly exaggerated. This is very true and it is sad that anyone would find it necessary to make those types of statement about people. 




> You're right. Nothing and no one here on this earth can change the fact that according to mainstream Christianity, homosexual acts are a sin. Nothing I said even implied different.
> 
> *The only part of this I took issue with was the propaganda and outright untruths. It is not Christian to be prejudiced toward any group of people. It is not Christian to spread lies. As Christians, we should be worried about doing what's right so that we can be example to those we are trying to influence.*


 
Amen! 



> *If gays deserve to be treated as human beings, then we as Christians should be the first ones to make sure that we aren't breeding prejudice against them by supporting outrageous stereotypes.*
> 
> Christianity's ministry against homosexuality has been steeped in lies, bigotry, and outright hate. Perhaps it's time for Christian's to rethink their strategy, since it appears that while a couple battles may have been won, they've definitely lost the war. *It's possible to take a stand in love, maybe Christian's should try it.*



Well said. We would win more souls for Him if many of us would change out attitude towards others


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## Mortons (May 8, 2009)

momi said:


> According to Matthew 12 and Luke 11 - Either you are for Him or against Him - there is no neutrality with God.



Thank you for the post. However, it had nothing to do with what I was referencing. Unfortunately, it wont matter because another Christian sister has been run out of the Christianity section after being called a follower of the enemy, leaving it to you all. Have fun


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## PaperClip (May 8, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> You are so right, sis...so right.
> 
> I'm going to the beach now...so I will return to read what you have to say
> 
> I'm gettin all tanned and stuff....


 
So there isn't anything to add to what I said! Relax, relate, release! While you're at the beach, lift up your eyes unto the hills... from whence do your help come? Your help cometh from the Lord, Maker of Heaven and earth!

Love ya!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 8, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> So there isn't anything to add to what I said! Relax, relate, release! While you're at the beach, lift up your eyes unto the hills... from whence do your help come? Your help cometh from the Lord, Maker of Heaven and earth!
> 
> Love ya!


I've been waiting for at least 15 minutes for you to add...but, that's ok..I thank you for being a blessing to my life and for sharing your heart as a TRUE soldier in Christ!

I did have a wonderful couple of hours at the beach...I'm getting golden bronze and my hair is getting blond.  I had to do a serious DC and now my hair feels wonderful

The one thing I know is that God is faithful....

Love you too!


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## Irresistible (May 8, 2009)

I just will never ever get why anyone is really that worried about 'another's' sin

I'm sure they got their own to worry about plenty


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## PaperClip (May 8, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> I just will never ever get why anyone is really that worried about 'another's' sin
> 
> I'm sure they got their own to worry about plenty


 
It's not about worring about another's sin but about defending the faith and ensuring its integrity and ensuring that it is not misrepresented.

And when sins and people accumulate and attempt to threaten the faith, it is up to the saints of the Lord to DEFEND the faith. The kingdom suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

That means fighting the good fight of faith in love, but at the same time, Jesus wasn't no punk.


----------



## Irresistible (May 8, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> It's not about worring about another's sin but about defending the faith and ensuring its integrity and ensuring that it is not misrepresented.
> 
> And when sins and people accumulate and attempt to threaten the faith, it is up to the saints of the Lord to DEFEND the faith. The kingdom suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
> 
> That means fighting the good fight of faith in love, but at the same time, Jesus wasn't no punk.



Well girl like I said I am still lost

I cant spend the energy to 'hate' the sin of another,  thats God's job,  now I dont know what all went on in this thread,  dont want to really.  folks can do what they want,  not my job to judge either side of the coin

my mission is to walk in love.   

just saying if there was any 'hate' in this thread , all over the sin of another, it was not of God anyway


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## PaperClip (May 8, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Well girl like I said I am still lost
> 
> I cant spend the energy to 'hate' the sin of another, thats God's job, now I dont know what all went on in this thread, dont want to really. folks can do what they want, not my job to judge either side of the coin
> 
> ...


 
Hate, the term or the concept, is nowhere in my post. I have little to no tolerance for the okey-doke move that says love isn't present when the Word of God is appropriately and accurately outlined and applied in a situation.

Yes, there's a way to say and do things...in love.... ON ANY SUBJECT. And at the same time, when it's time to match clown for clown, as it were, well, a lukewarm Christian can't do much.

I don't know what has gone down in this thread, either. But I would say the same thing in terms of defending the faith.


----------



## Irresistible (May 8, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Hate, the term or the concept, is nowhere in my post. I have little to no tolerance for the okey-doke move that says love isn't present when the Word of God is appropriately and accurately outlined and applied in a situation.
> 
> Yes, there's a way to say and do things...in love.... ON ANY SUBJECT. And at the same time, when it's time to match clown for clown, as it were, well, a lukewarm Christian can't do much.
> 
> I don't know what has gone down in this thread, either. But I would say the same thing in terms of defending the faith.



I'm confused mama, nothing was directed at you whatsoever

neither of us know LOL

But I too would still say the same about LOVE

HUGS


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## PaperClip (May 8, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> I'm confused mama, nothing was directed at you whatsoever
> 
> neither of us know LOL
> 
> ...


 
My apologies. My posts were not directed at you personally. I know I quoted you but I had just found the words to articulate my  when I see an okey-doke move happen and I lept.

My sincere apologies.


----------



## cheetarah1980 (May 8, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm totally serious! AND I'm fully aware of heterosexuals who are passing STD's around as well. It all falls in line with sexual sin.
> 
> To wit... how does any of what you share 'JUSTIFY' homosexuality? It is unrepented sin.
> 
> ...


 
I can't speak for another poster, but I don't think she was trying to justify homosexuality.  But that line about 10-20 partners per week was unjustified propoganda.  Think of it this way.  If you were caught in the sin of stealing wouldn't you be upset if someone said you also committed aggravated assault while stealing?  It's like dag, why add to the sin.  Whether someone is involved in promiscuous homosexual relations or monogamous, it's still a sin.  However, being homosexual doesn't equate to promiscuity any more than heterosexuality equates to chastity.  
I could be wrong, but I think that's all that was being said.


----------



## Shimmie (May 9, 2009)

cheetarah1980 said:


> I can't speak for another poster, but I don't think she was trying to justify homosexuality. But that line about 10-20 partners per week was unjustified propoganda. Think of it this way. If you were caught in the sin of stealing wouldn't you be upset if someone said you also committed aggravated assault while stealing? It's like dag, why add to the sin. Whether someone is involved in promiscuous homosexual relations or monogamous, it's still a sin.
> 
> *However, being homosexual doesn't equate to promiscuity any more than heterosexuality equates to chastity. *
> I could be wrong, but I think that's all that was being said.


 
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/lehrman.pdf

*Morbidity, Mortality, and Morality:
the Social Impact of Homosexuality
*
A striking but little-discussed aspect of homosexual activity today is it's associated reduction in behavioral control. We all have forbidden sexual drives that we restrain, but for those engaging in homosexual behavior, that restraint seems much reduced.

*One result has been blatant promiscuity among homosexuals.
*
*A 1978 study reported that: 

75 percent of male homosexuals had been with 100 or more partners; 
28 percent, the largest subcategory, reported more than 1,000 partners; 
79 percent said more than half their partners were strangers; and 
79 percent said more than half their partners were men with whom they had sex only once.
*
Another survey 16 years later found that while...

67.6 percent of men and 75.5 percent of women had only one sex partner in the previous year, only 2.6 percent of men and 1.2 percent of women engaging in same-sex relationships had thus limited themselves.

*Supporters of homosexuality, and advocates of gay marriage, rarely acknowledge the many partners gays have including those living together as couples.*
*
The medical dangers of homosexuality are also underemphasized.

Its devotees show much higher rates of sexually transmitted disease, substance abuse, and mental illness. 

While they comprise only about 2 percent of the population, homosexuals represented 21 percent of hepatitis B cases in 1988, and 44 percent of new human immuno deficiency virus (HIV) cases between 2000 and 2003. They contract syphilis at a rate three to four times higher than nonhomosexuals. 

Anal intercourse causes hemorrhoids, anal fissures, anorectal trauma, and retained foreign bodies, and creates high risk for anal cancer. Among male homosexuals engaging in oral-to-anal contact, an extremely high rate of parasitic and other intestinal infections exists.

Homosexuality is also associated with higher mortality. 

A major Canadian medical center found the life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men was 8 to 20 years less than that for all men.

It further estimated that nearly half of today.s gay and bisexual 20-year-olds would not reach their 65th birthday.

While the AMA's official statement on homosexuality mentions the need to work nonjudgmentally with the gay and lesbian community, in order to understand its members, medical needs,  it says nothing about the unique nature of those needs or the promiscuous, disease-spreading behavior patterns that aggravate them. 

It's encyclopedia article also omits any mention of associated medical dangers. And even though homosexuals seeking to change often succeed in doing so (frequently with the aid of therapy), the
AMA statement, by publicly opposing reparative or conversion therapy based on the assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation, seems to take an implicit
moral position of denying that such change should occur.

American concepts and attitudes about homosexuality have changed significantly in recent decades. Most of society and the medical profession now view it as an acceptable alternate lifestyle: a biologically determined, permanent orientation, rather than a learned, experiential, and often changeable choice. 

The concept of homosexuality as a permanent orientation is, however, without scientific validation; 

..... the notion is entirely politically grounded.

One effect of this new view has been to understate the medical and societal harm produced by the promiscuous sexual practices typically associated with homosexuality.
*---------------------------------

This is serious..... ​


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## Shimmie (May 9, 2009)

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html

*The Health Risks of Gay Sex* 


*Introduction*

Back in the early 1980s, while working at Beth Israel Hospital, I vividly remember seeing healthy young gay men dying of a mysterious disease that researchers only later identified as a sexually transmitted disease — AIDS. Over the years, I've seen many patients with that diagnosis die. 
As a physician, it is my duty to assess behaviors for their impact on health and wellbeing. When something is beneficial, such as exercise, good nutrition, or adequate sleep, it is my duty to recommend it. Likewise, when something is harmful, such as smoking, overeating, alcohol or drug abuse, it is my duty to discourage it. 

When sexual activity is practiced outside of marriage, the consequences can be quite serious. Without question, sexual promiscuity frequently spreads diseases, from trivial to serious to deadly. In fact, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that 65 million Americans have an incurable sexually transmitted disease (STD).1

There are differences between men and women in the consequences of same-sex activity. But most importantly, the consequences of homosexual activity are distinct from the consequences of heterosexual activity. As a physician, it is my duty to inform patients of the health risks of gay sex, and to discourage them from indulging in harmful behavior. 

*I. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL AND HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS* 

The current media portrayal of gay and lesbian relationships is that they are as healthy, stable and loving as heterosexual marriages — or even more so.2 Medical associations are promoting somewhat similar messages.3 Nevertheless, there are at least five major areas of differences between gay and heterosexual relationships, each with specific medical consequences. Those differences include:

A. Levels of promiscuity 
B. Physical health 
C. Mental health 
D. Life span 
E. Definition of "monogamy" 

*A. Promiscuity* 

Gay author Gabriel Rotello notes the perspective of many gays that "Gay liberation was founded . . . on a 'sexual brotherhood of promiscuity,' and any abandonment of that promiscuity would amount to a 'communal betrayal of gargantuan proportions.'"4 Rotello's perception of gay promiscuity, which he criticizes, is consistent with survey results. 

A far-ranging study of homosexual men published in 1978 revealed that 75 percent of self-identified, white, gay men admitted to having sex with more than 100 different males in their lifetime: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250- 499; 15 percent claimed 500-999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners.5

By 1984, after the AIDS epidemic had taken hold, homosexual men were reportedly curtailing promiscuity, but not by much. Instead of more than 6 partners per month in 1982, the average non-monogamous respondent in San Francisco reported having about 4 partners per month in 1984.6

In more recent years, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control has reported an upswing in promiscuity, at least among young homosexual men in San Francisco. From 1994 to 1997, the percentage of homosexual men reporting multiple partners and unprotected anal sex rose from 23.6 percent to 33.3 percent, with the largest increase among men under 25.7 Despite its continuing incurability, AIDS no longer seems to deter individuals from engaging in promiscuous gay sex.8

*The data relating to gay promiscuity were obtained from self-identified gay men.* 

Some advocates argue that the average would be lower if closeted homosexuals were included in the statistics.9 That is likely true, according to data obtained in a 2000 survey in Australia that tracked whether men who had sex with men were associated with the gay community. 

*Men who were associated with the gay community were nearly four times as likely to have had more than 50 sex partners in the six months preceding the survey as men who were not associated with the gay community.10 *

This may imply that it is riskier to be "out" than "closeted." Adopting a gay identity may create more pressure to be promiscuous and to be so with a cohort of other more promiscuous partners.

Excessive sexual promiscuity results in serious medical consequences — indeed, it is a recipe for transmitting disease and generating an epidemic.11 The HIV/AIDS epidemic has remained a predominantly gay issue in the U.S. primarily because of the greater degree of promiscuity among gays.12 A study based upon statistics from 1986 through 1990 estimated that 20-year-old gay men had a 50 percent chance of becoming HIV positive by age 55.13 

As of June 2001, nearly 64 percent of men with AIDS were men who have had sex with men.14 *Syphilis is also more common among gay men. The San Francisco Public Health Department recently reported that syphilis among the city's gay and bisexual men was at epidemic levels. According to the San Francisco Chronicle: *
"Experts believe syphilis is on the rise among gay and bisexual men because they are engaging in unprotected sex with multiple partners, many of whom they met in anonymous situations such as sex clubs, adult bookstores, meetings through the Internet and in bathhouses. The new data will show that in the 93 cases involving gay and bisexual men this year, the group reported having 1,225 sexual partners."15​*A study done in Baltimore and reported in the Archives of Internal Medicine found that gay men contracted syphilis at three to four times the rate of heterosexuals.16 Promiscuity is the factor most responsible for the extreme rates of these and other Sexually Transmitted Diseases cited below, many of which result in a shortened life span for men who have sex with men.* 

*Promiscuity among lesbians is less extreme, but it is still higher than among heterosexual women.* 

*Overall, women tend to have fewer sex partners than men.* 

*But there is a surprising finding about lesbian promiscuity in the literature. Australian investigators reported that lesbian women were 4.5 times more likely to have had more than 50 lifetime male partners than heterosexual women (9 percent of lesbians versus 2 percent of heterosexual women); and 93 percent of women who identified themselves as lesbian reported a history of sex with men.17 Other studies similarly show that 75-90 percent of women who have sex with women have also had sex with men.18 *


----------



## Shimmie (May 9, 2009)

*B. Physical Health* 
Unhealthy sexual behaviors occur among both heterosexuals and homosexuals. Yet the medical and social science evidence indicate that homosexual behavior is uniformly unhealthy. Although both male and female homosexual practices lead to increases in Sexually Transmitted Diseases, the practices and diseases are sufficiently different that they merit separate discussion.

*1. Male Homosexual Behavior* 
Men having sex with other men leads to greater health risks than men having sex with women19 not only because of promiscuity but also because of the nature of sex among men. A British researcher summarizes the danger as follows:
"Male homosexual behaviour is not simply either 'active' or 'passive,' since penile-anal, mouth-penile, and hand-anal sexual contact is usual for both partners, and mouth-anal contact is not infrequent. . . . Mouth-anal contact is the reason for the relatively high incidence of diseases caused by bowel pathogens in male homosexuals. Trauma may encourage the entry of micro-organisms and thus lead to primary syphilitic lesions occurring in the anogenital area. . . . In addition to sodomy, trauma may be caused by foreign bodies, including stimulators of various kinds, penile adornments, and prostheses."20​Although the specific activities addressed below may be practiced by heterosexuals at times, homosexual men engage in these activities to a far greater extent.21 


*a. Anal-genital* 
Anal intercourse is the sine qua non of sex for many gay men.22 Yet human physiology makes it clear that the body was not designed to accommodate this activity. The rectum is significantly different from the vagina with regard to suitability for penetration by a penis. The vagina has natural lubricants and is supported by a network of muscles. 

It is composed of a mucus membrane with a multi-layer stratified squamous epithelium that allows it to endure friction without damage and to resist the immunological actions caused by semen and sperm. In comparison, the anus is a delicate mechanism of small muscles that comprise an "exit-only" passage. With repeated trauma, friction and stretching, the sphincter loses its tone and its ability to maintain a tight seal. Consequently, anal intercourse leads to leakage of fecal material that can easily become chronic.

The potential for injury is exacerbated by the fact that the intestine has only a single layer of cells separating it from highly vascular tissue, that is, blood. Therefore, any organisms that are introduced into the rectum have a much easier time establishing a foothold for infection than they would in a vagina. The single layer tissue cannot withstand the friction associated with penile penetration, resulting in traumas that expose both participants to blood, organisms in feces, and a mixing of bodily fluids. 

Furthermore, ejaculate has components that are immunosuppressive. In the course of ordinary reproductive physiology, this allows the sperm to evade the immune defenses of the female. Rectal insemination of rabbits has shown that sperm impaired the immune defenses of the recipient.23 Semen may have a similar impact on humans.24 

The end result is that the fragility of the anus and rectum, along with the immunosuppressive effect of ejaculate, make anal-genital intercourse a most efficient manner of transmitting HIV and other infections. The list of diseases found with extraordinary frequency among male homosexual practitioners as a result of anal intercourse is alarming: 

Anal Cancer 
Chlamydia trachomatis 
Cryptosporidium 
Giardia lamblia 
Herpes simplex virus 
Human immunodeficiency virus 
Human papilloma virus 
Isospora belli 
Microsporidia 
Gonorrhea 
Viral hepatitis types B & C 
Syphilis25 

Sexual transmission of some of these diseases is so rare in the exclusively heterosexual population as to be virtually unknown. Others, while found among heterosexual and homosexual practitioners, are clearly predominated by those involved in homosexual activity. 

Syphilis, for example is found among heterosexual and homosexual practitioners. *But in 1999, King County, Washington (Seattle), reported that 85 percent of syphilis cases were among self-identified homosexual practitioners.26 And as noted above, syphilis among homosexual men is now at epidemic levels in San Francisco.27 *

A 1988 CDC survey identified 21 percent of all Hepatitis B cases as being homosexually transmitted while 18 percent were heterosexually transmitted.28 Since homosexuals comprise such a small percent of the population (only 1-3 percent),29 they have a significantly higher rate of infection than heterosexuals.30 

Anal intercourse also puts men at significant risk for anal cancer. Anal cancer is the result of infection with some subtypes of human papilloma virus (HPV), which are known viral carcinogens. Data as of 1989 showed the rates of anal cancer in male homosexual practitioners to be 10 times that of heterosexual males, and growing. 30 Thus, the prevalence of anal cancer among gay men is of great concern. For those with AIDS, the rates are doubled.31 

Other physical problems associated with anal intercourse are:
hemorrhoids 
anal fissures 
anorectal trauma 
retained foreign bodies.32

*b. Oral-anal* ​There is an extremely high rate of parasitic and other intestinal infections documented among male homosexual practitioners because of oral-anal contact. In fact, there are so many infections that a syndrome called "the Gay Bowel" is described in the medical literature.33 "Gay bowel syndrome constitutes a group of conditions that occur among persons who practice unprotected anal intercourse, anilingus, or fellatio following anal intercourse."34 Although some women have been diagnosed with some of the gastrointestinal infections associated with "gay bowel," the vast preponderance of patients with these conditions are men who have sex with men.35 
------------------
Much more of this study is Continued here....

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html

This is serious business and the Truth is being denied by many of those who support the gay lifestyle. 

I'm not fond of Craig Lewis, the person whose made the comments about the numerous sexual encounters by most gay men/women.   But he wasn't off point.   There is much promiscuity in this lifestyle; more instability than in heterosexual relationships.  The multiple medical stats and studies are out there by those of and not of faith to prove it.


----------



## Shimmie (May 9, 2009)

*2. Female Homosexual Behavior*

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html


Lesbians are also at higher risk for STDs and other health problems than heterosexuals.59 However, the health consequences of lesbianism are less well documented than for male homosexuals. 

This is partly because the devastation of AIDS has caused male homosexual activity to draw the lion's share of medical attention. But it is also because there are fewer lesbians than gay men,60 and there is no evidence that lesbians practice the same extremes of same-sex promiscuity as gay men. 

The lesser amount of medical data does not mean, however, that female homosexual behavior is without recognized pathology. Much of the pathology is associated with heterosexual activity by lesbians.

Among the difficulties in establishing the pathologies associated with lesbianism is the problem of defining who is a lesbian.61 Study after study documents that the overwhelming majority of self-described lesbians have had sex with men.62 Australian researchers at an STD clinic found that only 7 percent of their lesbian sample had never had sexual contact with a male.63 

Not only did lesbians commonly have sex with men, but with lots of men. They were 4.5 times as likely as exclusively heterosexual controls to have had more than 50 lifetime male sex partners.64 Consequently, the lesbians' median number of male partners was twice that of exclusively heterosexual women.65 Lesbians were three to four times more likely than heterosexual women to have sex with men who were high-risk for HIV disease-homosexual, bisexual, or IV drug-abusing men.66 

The study "demonstrates that WSW [women who have sex with women] are more likely than non- WSW to engage in recognized HIV risk behaviours such as IDU [intravenous drug use], sex work, sex with a bisexual man, and sex with a man who injects drugs, confirming previous reports."67 

Bacterial vaginosis, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis C, heavy cigarette smoking, alcohol abuse, intravenous drug use, and prostitution were present in much higher proportions among female homosexual practitioners.68 Intravenous drug abuse was nearly six times as common in this group.69

*In one study of women who had sex only with women in the prior 12 months, 30 percent had bacterial vaginosis.70 *

Bacterial vaginosis is associated with higher risk for pelvic inflammatory disease and other sexually transmitted infections.71 

In view of the record of lesbians having sex with many men, including gay men, and the increased incidence of intravenous drug use among lesbians, lesbians are not low risk for disease. Although researchers have only recently begun studying the transmission of STDs among lesbians, diseases such as "crabs," genital warts, chlamydia and herpes have been reported.72 

*Even women who have never had sex with men have been found to have HPV, trichomoniasis and anogenital warts.73 *

*C. Mental Health* 
*1. Psychiatric Illness* ​Multiple studies have identified high rates of psychiatric illness, including depression, drug abuse and suicide attempts, among selfprofessed gays and lesbians.74 Some proponents of GLB rights have used these findings to conclude that mental illness is induced by other people's unwillingness to accept same-sex attraction and behavior as normal. They point to homophobia, effectively defined as any opposition to or critique of gay sex, as the cause for the higher rates of psychiatric illness, especially among gay youth.75 Although homophobia must be considered as a potential cause for the increase in mental health problems, the medical literature suggests other conclusions.

An extensive study in the Netherlands undermines the assumption that homophobia is the cause of increased psychiatric illness among gays and lesbians. The Dutch have been considerably more accepting of same-sex relationships than other Western countries — in fact, same-sex couples now have the legal right to marry in the Netherlands.76 So a high rate of psychiatric disease associated with homosexual behavior in the Netherlands means that the psychiatric disease cannot so easily be attributed to social rejection and homophobia. 

The Dutch study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry, did indeed find a high rate of psychiatric disease associated with same-sex sex.77 Compared to controls who had no homosexual experience in the 12 months prior to the interview, males who had any homosexual contact within that time period were much more likely to experience major depression, bipolar disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia and obsessive compulsive disorder. 

Females with any homosexual contact within the previous 12 months were more often diagnosed with major depression, social phobia or alcohol dependence. In fact, those with a history of homosexual contact had higher rates of nearly all psychiatric pathologies measured in the study.78 The researchers found "that homosexuality is not only associated with mental health problems during adolescence and early adulthood, as has been suggested, but also in later life."79 Researchers actually fear that methodological features of "the study might underestimate the differences between homosexual and heterosexual people."80 

The Dutch researchers concluded, "this study offers evidence that homosexuality is associated with a higher prevalence of psychiatric disorders. The outcomes are in line with findings from earlier studies in which less rigorous designs have been employed."81 The researchers offered no opinion as to whether homosexual behavior causes psychiatric disorders, or whether it is the result of psychiatric disorders. 

*2. Reckless Sexual Behavior* 
Depression and drug abuse can lead to reckless sexual behavior, even among those who are most likely to understand the deadly risks. In an article that was part of a series on "AIDS at 20," the New York Times reported the risks that many gay men take. One night when a gay HIV prevention educator named Seth Watkins got depressed, he met an attractive stranger, had anal intercourse without a condom — and became HIV positive. In spite of his job training, the HIV educator nevertheless employed the psychological defense of "denial" in explaining his own sexual behavior: "[L]ike an increasing number of gay men in San Francisco and elsewhere, Mr. Watkins sometimes still puts himself and possibly other people at risk. 'I don't like to think about it because I don't want to give anyone H.I.V.,' Mr. Watkins said."82​Another gay man named Vince, who had never before had anal intercourse without a condom, went to a sex club on the spur of the moment when he got depressed, and had unprotected sex: 
"I was definitely in a period of depression . . . . And there was just something about that particular circumstance and that particular person. I don't know how to describe it. It just appealed to me; it made it seem like it was all right."83​Some of the men interviewed by the New York Times are deliberately reckless. One fatalistic gay man with HIV makes no apology for putting other men at risk: 
"The prospect of going through the rest of your life having to cover yourself up every time you want to get intimate with someone is an awful one. . . . Now I've got H.I.V. and I don't have to worry about getting it," he said. "There is a part of me that's relieved. I was tired of always having to be careful, of this constant diligence that has to be paid to intimacy when intimacy should be spontaneous."84​After admitting to almost never using condoms he adds: 
"There is no such thing as safe sex. . . . If people want to use condoms, they can. I didn't go out and purposely get H.I.V. Accidents happen."85​Other reports show similar disregard for the safety of self and others. A1998 study in Seattle found that 10 percent of HIV-positive men admitted they engaged in unprotected anal sex, and the percentage doubled in 2000.86 According to a study of men who attend gay "circuit" parties,87 the danger at such events is even greater. Ten percent of the men surveyed expected to become HIV-positive in their lifetime. 

Researchers discovered that 17 percent of the circuit party attendees surveyed were already HIV positive.88 Two thirds of those attending circuit parties had oral or anal sex, and 28 percent did not use condoms.89 

In addition, drug use at circuit parties is ubiquitous. Although only 57 percent admit going to circuit parties to use drugs, 95 percent of the survey participants said they used psychoactive drugs at the most recent event they attended.90 There was a direct correlation between the number of drugs used during a circuit party weekend and the likelihood of unprotected anal sex.91 The researchers concluded that in view of their findings, "the likelihood of transmission of HIV and other Sexually Transmitted Diseases among party attendees and secondary partners becomes a real public health concern."92 
 Good mental health would dictate foregoing circuit parties and other risky sex. But neither education nor adequate access to health care is a deterrent to such reckless behavior. "Research at the University of New South Wales found well-educated professional men in early middle age — those who experienced the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s — are most likely not to use a condom."93


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## *Michelle* (May 9, 2009)

WOW, this is deep! It has been a very good read. I'm not spiritually mature so I won't say much...but I do know that Gods word does speak against homosexuality.

Do I have the answer to the issues presented here...obviously not. Am I sick of gays trying to be a protected class YES, YES and YES. Sick of Christian leaders KNOWINGLY leading believers and those such as myself on a (re)newed walk with God...YES, YES and YES. In fact I seldom got to church anymore, not because I don't want to fellowship with true believers or hear the (true and accurate) word of God, BUT because I the last couple of churches I attended were obviously not doing these things. I'm moving to FL next month and pray that I have better results as I am missing fellowshipping.

Am I perfect not at all. Will I stand for what I believe in...without a shadow of a doubt. 

Oh and that quote re the fence and the pickets is the best quote EVER! Anyways, this post got longer than I meant and I can't really express the way I feel because I can't quote scriptures and can't write eloquently...but I hope you get the gist of it.

I love the LORD and all his GLORY!


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## cheetarah1980 (May 9, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/lehrman.pdf
> 
> *Morbidity, Mortality, and Morality:*
> *the Social Impact of Homosexuality*
> ...


 
While I don't argue with the health dangers of male/male sexual intercourse, I don't know how much credence this 1978 study actually has.  One, it's over 30 years old. Two, who is the sample population of homosexuals surveyed.  Stats can say whatever you want them to say but it doesn't make them representative.

That's neither here nor there.  The issue I take with the 10-20 partners/week statement as part of the gay lifestyle is that it's unfounded and assumed to just be a natural byproduct of the gay lifestyle.  It is well (and better) documented that black people have the highest rates (not absolute number) of incarceration, poverty, out-of-wedlock births.  So with this being known, shouldn't someone say the lifestyle of being a black person starts with being born to a teen mother into a life of poverty and eventually ends in jail or with more out-of-wedlock births.  I should think not.

It is the same with homosexuals. No one is arguing the sinful nature of it.  And no I don't believe God created anyone to be gay. However, that doesn't make it right for "loving Christians" to make unfounded claims about them to show just how wrong they are by making them seem like a bunch of happy, screwing rabbitts when for so many this is NOT the case.  Deal with the issue at hand instead of adding on to it by leaps and bounds just to make the alarm ring louder.


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## msa (May 9, 2009)

cheetarah1980 said:


> While I don't argue with the health dangers of male/male sexual intercourse, I don't know how much credence this 1978 study actually has.  One, it's over 30 years old. Two, who is the sample population of homosexuals surveyed.  Stats can say whatever you want them to say but it doesn't make them representative.
> 
> That's neither here nor there.  The issue I take with the 10-20 partners/week statement as part of the gay lifestyle is that it's unfounded and assumed to just be a natural byproduct of the gay lifestyle.  It is well (and better) documented that black people have the highest rates (not absolute number) of incarceration, poverty, out-of-wedlock births.  So with this being known, shouldn't someone say the lifestyle of being a black person starts with being born to a teen mother into a life of poverty and eventually ends in jail or with more out-of-wedlock births.  I should think not.
> 
> It is the same with homosexuals. No one is arguing the sinful nature of it.  And no I don't believe God created anyone to be gay. *However, that doesn't make it right for "loving Christians" to make unfounded claims about them to show just how wrong they are by making them seem like a bunch of happy, screwing rabbitts when for so many this is NOT the case.*  Deal with the issue at hand instead of adding on to it by leaps and bounds just to make the alarm ring louder.




I wish I could thank you a million times!


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## Shimmie (Aug 7, 2011)

sunnysmyler said:


> We as believers can no longer hide and ignore what is going on in Christandom today, neither can we allow ourselvs to be pulled in by Charisma and Charm.
> 
> We must study the WORD for ourselves (as so many wise women on this board have stressed time and time again), so that when we hear hearsy we will, by the HOLY SPIRT, detect it and close our ears to it, even when it comes from the "popular preachers on tv and such".
> 
> *We must develop a TRUE relationship with GOD THE FATHER that we will be able to discern false prophets.* One thing that is assured, they will FALL, you cannot pervert the WORD OF GOD and get away with it!!!!


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 7, 2011)

Shimmie said:


>


Glad you bumped this.  Here are the latest statistics (2009)

http://www.avert.org/usa-transmission-gender.htm

              Men are more affected by HIV and         AIDS in the United States than women. Male adult or adolescents         accounted for 3 out of 4 new HIV diagnoses         and new AIDS diagnoses in the U.S. in 2009.

              The HIV transmission route         leading to the most AIDS         diagnosis in 2009 was male-to-male sexual contact, followed by         heterosexual contact and injection drug use. 

              The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) publish HIV         statistics for 40 states and 5 dependent areas with confidential         name-based HIV infection reporting. AIDS statistics include all 50         states and the District of Columbia, as well as the 5 dependent areas.     

*         HIV statistics     *
CDC statistics show that in 2008, 73% of         persons living with a diagnosis of HIV infection were male adults or         adolescents. 

Over half (63%) of adult and adolescent         males living with an HIV diagnosis in 2008 became infected through         male-to-male sexual contact, around 17% of         those diagnosed were infected through injecting drug use and         12% through heterosexual contact. 

The majority of female adult and adolescents living with an HIV         diagnosis in 2008 were infected with the virus through heterosexual         contact (73%). Most of the remaining         females were infected through injecting drug use.     
              Of the 10,284 children living with a         diagnosis of HIV infection in 2008, 9,038         were infected through mother-to-child transmission.     

*         Estimated adult and adolescent new HIV diagnoses in 2009 by         transmission route and gender     *

                                                                 Transmission route                                                       Male Female                                                                                 Male-to-male sexual contact                                                       24,132                                                       -                                                                                 Injection drug use                                                       2,652                                                       1,520                                                                                 Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use                                                       1,157                                                       -                                                                                 Heterosexual contact                                                       4,551                                                       8,706                                                                                 Other                                                       47                                                       29                                                                                 Total*                                                       32,538                                                       10,255                                                          * Because totals are calculated independently of the subpopulations,         the values in each column may not sum exactly to the figure in the         'Total' row     






* 
AIDS         statistics     *
Adult and adolescent males accounted for three-quarters of people diagnosed with AIDS in 2009.         Between 2006 and 2009 the annual rate of new AIDS diagnoses decreased         slightly among both females and males.     
* 
Estimated adult and adolescent AIDS diagnoses in 2009 and cumulative         diagnoses since the beginning of the epidemic through 2009, by         transmission route and gender     *

                                                                 Transmission route                                                       2009 diagnoses                                                       Cumulative diagnoses                                                                                 Male                                                       Female                                                       Male                                                       Female                                                                                 Male-to-male sexual contact                                                       17,171                                                       -                                                       535,570                                                       -                                                                                 Injection drug use                                                       3,207                                                       1,982                                                       173,351                                                       90,102                                                                                 Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use                                                       1,608                                                       -                                                       73,006                                                       -                                                                                 Heterosexual contact                                                       3,956                                                       6,740                                                       59,593                                                       131,886                                                                                 Other                                                       159                                                       157                                                       96,977                                                       7,185                                                                                 Total*                                                       26,102                                                       8,879                                                       882,074
                                                      229,173
                                                         * Because totals are calculated independently of the subpopulations,         the values in each column may not sum exactly to the figure in the         'Total' row     






See our AIDS statistics by race and age         page for further information broken down by racial/ethnic group.


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2011)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Glad you bumped this.  Here are the latest statistics (2009)
> 
> http://www.avert.org/usa-transmission-gender.htm
> 
> ...



  ...male to male sexual contact is the #1 spread of AIDS/HIV leading by 74%...

Thank you for bringing this up-to-date and dispelling the lie that Christians make unfounded claims to prove the sin of homosexuality.  The truth is we do not have to make claims...the evidence is speaking for its self loud and clear.  

Their 'defense' by use of denial is only hurting the situation, not helping those suffering from it. 

Sadder still...

Are the people who jump to the defence of male/male sexual activity; minimizing it's peril.   I wonder how much of this could have been avoided by just admittig that gay sex is what it is...dangerous. 

And the government wants to legalize this deadly activity into marriage...  

The government is just 'stupid'.   Just plain stupid.  They are simply sealing the coffins for those in this lifestyle. 

I don't want anyone to suffer like this.  This is not what God intended.   No Christian wants to see harm upon another human being.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Aug 17, 2011)

My two cents on the matter - Unsaved people should not be allowed in Ministry at all all...


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