# I Permed My Hair! - From 4a to 2c (Pics)



## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

So I decided to try something new with my hair because I really wanted to wear wash-n-gos more without my hair tangling and dealing with shrinkage. There isn't a lot of information about perming (permanent waving) Type 4 hair on the web, but I decided to go for it anyway. So I used an alkaline Tressa perm for resistant hair and 7/8 inch perm rods. My mother-in-law put in the rollers and applied the wave lotion. I sat under a dryer for 25 mins, which may have been too long because my roots are a little straighter than I would like.

But the end results turned out pretty well and I like the curls/waves in my hair. This treatment loosened up my texture quite a bit, next time I will probably use a milder perm. I plan to grow out my hair for a year before doing another perm. My roots are usually very wavy with weight on the ends, so I am hoping the roots will blend with the waves over time. I am new to all this, so this is all just an experiment. I was hoping maybe some ladies here could chime in with their permanent waving experiences so that I have some idea of how long before the treatment wears off and what the processed texture will look like over the next few months 

I didn't lose any hair and my hair doesn't feel dry or damaged. The waving solution smelled horrible though. I am also wearing my hair with a deep conditioner on it right now.

Before:














After:

















*Deep Treatment Mask*





*This is the perm I used:*


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## growbaby (Feb 8, 2013)

I love it! Before AND after


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## VeryBecoming (Feb 8, 2013)

What does it look like dry?


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

growbaby Thanks, I had been struggling with my hair, so I figured I'd try something new so I didn't cut all my progress off lol


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## DarkJoy (Feb 8, 2013)

Yes, I would also like to see  a dry pic. Looks beautiful, though OP!

Also, how would a TU go? Do you apply the lotion only to the roots? Will you have to protein the hair a lot like a relaxer? Will it be drier?  This is all very interesting--I've never know a Type 4 to get a perm like this before!

I also wonder if the demarcation line will be weak like a relaxer as well, particularly since you will be stretching...

Anyhow, keep us updated!


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

VeryBecoming It looks really curly and defined. Because I just finished the treatment at 1 am this morning, I didn't want to brush through it and disturb the curl pattern while it is still air neutralizing. I will post more pics after I rinse the deep conditioner out tonight and comb through it.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

DarkJoy said:


> Also, how would a TU go? Do you apply the lotion only to the roots? Will you have to protein the hair a lot like a relaxer? Will it be drier?  This is all very interesting--I've never know a Type 4 to get a perm like this before!
> 
> Anyhow, keep us updated!



1. From what I have seen on YouTube with touch-ups you basically just do the treatment over again, although I will be using a much milder version of the perm for touch-ups, with an acidic pH and only yearly.

2. I don't think I will have much breakage, because my hair doesn't feel weak or brittle, but I will definitely be using a protein conditioner regularly to make sure it doesn't get that way.

3. Yeah I know, I could barely find information about it. This article from black hair information is what introduced me to the idea: http://www.blackhairinformation.com/relaxed-hair/lets-talk-curly-perms-are-they-a-real-alternative-to-a-relaxer/


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## Channy31 (Feb 8, 2013)

This really interests me! 

I hate my hair dead straight so always curl it.. Hmmm


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## greenandchic (Feb 8, 2013)

I like your hair before _and _after - good work!  I can't wait to see your hair dry.


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## Browndilocks (Feb 8, 2013)

Nice!  I'm really interested in seeing your maintenance progress.  Knowing that a permanent wave has less alkalinity than a relaxer or texturizer, I'm wondering if you'll need as much protein/moisture etc.


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## Channy31 (Feb 8, 2013)

Think styles like those on this website are possible?

In particular beyonces style
http://hairstyles-id.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/wavy-perm-hairstyles.html


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

MixedGirl Yeah I didn't want to relax it because bone straight doesn't look good with my facial shape and my hair is fine and usually doesn't have any body after a relaxer. And I wasn't really sure if the curl pattern would be loose enough if I just texlaxed.

greenandchic Thanks, but without my mother-in-laws rollersetting skills my hair would have probably looked random and crazy 

Browndilocks Yeah the pH was only 8.5. I've been getting good increased moisture results from hot oil treatments every 2 weeks and for protein I plan to use Hairtrition Keratin Conditioner, so I'll see if that works.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

MixedGirl said:


> Think styles like those on this website are possible?
> 
> In particular beyonces style
> http://hairstyles-id.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/wavy-perm-hairstyles.html



Yeah, to get Beyonce's style you would probably just have to use larger perm rods, like over an inch in diameter and use a lower pH perm so that the waves are softer.


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## southerncitygirl (Feb 8, 2013)

your before and after is nice, i can't wait to see the finished result as well. 

there's a member  i think her name is PretteePlease) on the board that let a stylist give her a wave nouveau and she had excellent results. think she had the stylist mix oil or condish into the solution and roll her hair on med or large perm rods. 

yeah, think with the ph you will fare better than a relaxer and its better than taking a chance with bkt with all the horror stories i've seen on this forum.


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## yuhlovevybz (Feb 8, 2013)

I've thought about this but figured a stylist would refuse to do it on my hair. Plus I don't wanna bc again if it goes wrong. But I'll be stalking your progress!! It's beautiful


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## Channy31 (Feb 8, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> Yeah, to get Beyonce's style you would probably just have to use larger perm rods, like over an inch in diameter and use a lower pH perm so that the waves are softer.



Thank you thank you thank you, I will be doing this!


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## BraunSugar (Feb 8, 2013)

Can't wait to see the dry pics!


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## bellebebe (Feb 8, 2013)

It's looks beautiful, doll. Great job!


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## wavezncurlz (Feb 8, 2013)

Interesting.
I love your original boingy coils though - maybe because my natural hair is less coily like your after.


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## CHI10 (Feb 8, 2013)

your before hair was really pretty...can't wait to see the dry "after" hair...how will the maintenance be?


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## PretteePlease (Feb 8, 2013)

nice results i would have used smaller rollers only because the curls loosen over time.


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## blackmaven (Feb 8, 2013)

I also like your hair before pictures and perm results.


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## sharifeh (Feb 8, 2013)

Wow beautiful job. Good info too. I didn't know we could do curly perms.


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## greenandchic (Feb 8, 2013)

PretteePlease said:


> nice results i would have used smaller rollers only because the curls loosen over time.



I was wondering about that myself...



sharifeh said:


> Wow beautiful job. Good info too. I didn't we could do curly perms.



Well, we did jheri curls.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

southerncitygirl Thanks. Yeah I was thinking that next time I would leave more conditioner on my hair.

yuhlovevybz I figured that half of the stylists wouldn't have known how to do the treatment on my hair type and the other half would charge way too much 

MixedGirl Let me know how it works for you, and any tips that you figure out 

BraunSugar and bellebebe Thanks ladies


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## HeChangedMyName (Feb 8, 2013)

I love your before hair and the after looks good too.

Is this a perm like a jherri curl or is this like the perm that normally we would associate with what a white person would get?  I've never heard of this before. . .im interested


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

wavezncurlz Thank you. I liked my curls, but after my hair dried in a wash-n-go it didn't look shiny and got really dry. Plus I wanted to see some more of my length. I was thinking that maybe it would be easier to grow my hair out with looser ends, so I may not get a second treatment and just cut the processed ends off once I get to my goal length. Oh yeah and I really love your curls! 

CHI10 Thanks My new growth is pretty wavy, so I was hoping it would blend in with the waves and I would only have to touch-up once a year, but we shall see. I'm just playing it by ear now.

PretteePlease Thanks Yeah I looked into the info about different rod size. It seemed like most women were getting good results with medium rods because a lot of women were complaining about hard to control frizz with the smaller rods that I was going to get at first. So I settled on 7/8 inch rods. But the curls on the ends on my hair look about 1/2 inch in diameter on average because I kept scrunching my hair while the neutralizer was in. I hope it doesn't loosen to much though  Thanks for the info, I am definitely worried about that

blackmaven thanks


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

sharifeh I didn't know either until recently. My mom always told me it was a treatment that ww got and not for our hair. I didn't even think about it until I found that article.

HeChangedMyName I got a brand of perm that a stylist in another forum recommended for white women, but I know there are some brands of perms specifically for our hair. I think a jherri curl is a perm over previously relaxed hair, along with doing the upkeep using specific products. But that's just my guess based on the little research that I've done.


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## Evolving78 (Feb 8, 2013)

it is pretty much the same process.  the only different is the maintenance products.  highly textured hair needs more moisture.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

This is how my hair looks dry. I left hairtrition keratin conditioner on it and eco-styler gel on the roots:


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## Renewed1 (Feb 8, 2013)

I like your hair dry.  I would think anytime you would want it a little more wavier or curlier you can use curling products.  

Good job.


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## BostonMaria (Feb 8, 2013)

Oh wow! I thought it was a texlax when I first saw the pictures. Your before pics look beautiful too.

Sent from my iPad using LHCF


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

Renewed1 and BostonMaria thanks ladies


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## Beamodel (Feb 8, 2013)

trinity8mod8

Girl ya hair lookin Lika da bomb (In my Martin Lawrence voice)


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 8, 2013)

Beamodel lol thanks


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## havilland (Feb 9, 2013)

Personally I prefer the before pics, but I am glad u got the results you wanted. You did an excellent job. 

Keep us posted on how your hair does.


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## grownwomanaz (Feb 9, 2013)

Whoa, it really loosened up you curlies, but that's what you wanted right? I didn't know we could use those type of perms on our hair either...learn something new everyday. Looks cute on you and I liked your tighter curls too.


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## bellebebe (Feb 9, 2013)

So when it's time for a touch up, do you only touch up the roots? I'm curious.

Sent from my sexy phone.


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## Allandra (Feb 9, 2013)

I love how thick, full and lush your before pictures are.


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## yuhlovevybz (Feb 9, 2013)

Is it completely permanent? Don't curly perms wear off after awhile?


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 9, 2013)

havilland thanks, I wouldn't have minded keeping my hair natural except that to keep my hair looking like it did in the photos I would have to wet and apply products everyday, because I couldn't get second day hair and it was really time consuming. Either that or I'd have to keep it in twists for a while, but I really wanted my hair loose.

grownwomanaz thanks yeah it did, but I am realizing that I over processed my roots some because they are not as wavy, but otherwise the curls came out really good

bellebebe I'm going to wait at least a year for a touch up, but I from what I've seen when you touch up you do the process over again with a milder perm. The mildest perm that I saw had a pH of 6.7

Allandra thank you


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 9, 2013)

This is how it looks after I slept on it on a satin pillow case and just spritzed it with a little water when I got up:












It's still really curly with just a little frizz


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## BraunSugar (Feb 9, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> This is how it looks after I slept on it on a satin pillow case and just spritzed it with a little water when I got up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your curls look a little tighter today. I bet you could get away with using only condish to style if you wanted to.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 9, 2013)

yuhlovevybz said:


> Is it completely permanent? Don't curly perms wear off after awhile?



I've heard that the curls loosen over time, and it really does depend alot on which brand of perm you buy and what the pH is...more alkaline means a longer lasting curl. The perm that I bought had a lot of reviewers which said that their curls lasted even as the hair was growing out and they would just retouch the roots. But I'm hoping that as my hair grows out the two textures will blend and I won't have to re-perm. But I'm just experimenting I'm not sure how it will turn out 

I wish there was more information about perms on highly textured hair.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 9, 2013)

BraunSugar said:


> Your curls look a little tighter today. I bet you could get away with using only condish to style if you wanted to.



Yeah after I rinsed out the deep treatment yesterday, I only applied conditioner on the ends and eco-styler on the roots, but I may just try conditioner only too. The curl pattern does seem tighter than the first day. I guess that's good because I think that it might start to loosen over the next few months.


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## Curly1908 (Feb 9, 2013)

Allandra said:


> I love how thick, full and lush your before pictures are.



I agree.  Your before pics were nice.  Your hair appeared thicker, fuller, and healthier.


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## greenandchic (Feb 9, 2013)

trinity8mod8 I definitely like the second day hair.  I'm very curious about the long-term result, especially when your hair grows out and you have two different textures.  Please keep us posted.


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## beauti (Feb 9, 2013)

*dang! your hair was BOMB before  but as long as you're happy *


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## FemmeCreole (Feb 9, 2013)

it looks really nice


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 9, 2013)

Curly1908, greenandchic, beauti and FemmeCreole

thanks ladies for the comments, encouragement and support. The pictures really don't show how my hair looks IRL. My hair is very shiny, bouncy, it looks just as thick, has a lot of movement and is very curly. Maybe I should make a video to show how it really looks. It turned out into being more of a 3a/3b rather than 2c on the first day after the treatment.

I've been using deep conditioner and oil to try to help set the curl better for the first couple of days, but it really has turned out beautiful, I wish it looked the same in the pictures. I will keep you all updated though.


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## EbonyCPrincess (Feb 10, 2013)

You are so right there isn't a lot of information for this...I was drooling over your before pics.  And I also really like your "after" as well!  I see what you mean about the roots, but for your first time AND it being DIY I think it looks pretty dern awesome!


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## sylver2 (Feb 10, 2013)

look like u went from 3bc to 2c lol. i liked the before a lot better. very pretty hair!!


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 10, 2013)

EbonyCPrincess thanks, yeah I over processed the roots. Because of the rollers when you apply the wave lotion it has to soak into the hair and the ends are rolled more inside so the roots got processed a lot more. And then to make it worse I left it on for 25 minutes instead of 10 minutes  But I definitely will use a milder perm next time that processes without the dryer and I will leave it on for less time. And also after the first day the roots started to look better and I know that once my actual texture starts to grow out my roots will be pretty wavy

sylver2 thank you, my natural texture looks looser when it's not fully dry and it is still damp in the before pics

I hope posting my first experiences with perms will help other naturals who might want more options or are thinking about cutting their hair. I definitely will make a list of dos and don'ts after dealing with my hair like this for the next few months


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## kimpaur (Feb 10, 2013)

Wow, this is awesome!Thanks for posting this, it opened my eyes to even more possibilities with our hair. Gorgeous!Keep up updated!


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 10, 2013)

kimpaur thanks I definitely will


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## acapnleo (Feb 10, 2013)

With a curly perm, I believe you are supposed to not wash 48-72 hours. I could be wrong. I did this with my hair about 3-4 years ago with Quantum.

I liked it because it offered diversity with curly and straight styles.

Enjoy


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 10, 2013)

acapnleo said:


> With a curly perm, I believe you are supposed to not wash 48-72 hours. I could be wrong. I did this with my hair about 3-4 years ago with Quantum.
> 
> I liked it because it offered diversity with curly and straight styles.
> 
> Enjoy



Thanks, I definitely enjoy the look and ease of it right now. I got the Tressa brand of perm because on the website it says "Tressa's Patented Triple Bonding Neutralizer allows you to Curl today. Color Today. Shampoo today." Also they have a chart comparing their different perms and it actually gives the pH of the treatment, which is what I was worried about and I couldn't find that info for other brands of perms. But I haven't shampooed my hair yet, I've just been co-washing.


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## DaiseeDay (Feb 10, 2013)

Your hair is very pretty period. 

I'm wondering how your hair feels. Is it silkier or does it feel coarser to the touch? Does it feel brittle at all and how's the elasticity? 

I just have a lot of questions about how it feels because I really hated how my hair felt when I had a relaxer. 

They're starting to market these in higher end salons again, but they call them something else.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 10, 2013)

DaiseeDay Aww thanks 

Umm my hair feels really soft, it feels softer after I've slept on it because using conditioner makes it really defined and slightly crunchy. But if I scrunch it or sleep on it it feels very soft not dry or brittle or anything like that. It doesn't really feel silky unless I wet it completely in the shower, it gets pretty straight then and silky feeling. It may be a little more elastic, I'm not completely sure, but because I know it has just been processed I comb it out gently anyway.


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## whiteoleander91 (Feb 10, 2013)

I really like the second day results! Very pretty, it looks lovely before and after.


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## getoffmylawn (Feb 10, 2013)

Did it burn at all and is it possible to do without a hooded dryer? I like your hair in all the pics.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 10, 2013)

whiteoleander91 thanks the roots and curls got a little "fluffier" the next day

getoffmylawn Yes if you get Tressa most of their perms process at room temperature and stop at a certain pH to not over process. I got one that didn't because I thought my hair would be more resistant but it wasn't and I should have gotten a lower pH perm that would stop processing.

It did burn somewhat after I had in on for longer than 10 minutes, but I should have followed the directions better because i shouldn't have waited to neutralize for 25 minutes. That was my fault, but the burn was nowhere near like a relaxer just an itch with irritation while I was under the dryer.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 13, 2013)

It's been about a week since the perm. Here are some update pics. My hair is completely dry in the photos. I just shampooed my hair yesterday, then left in Sauve Coconut conditioner in my hair and combed it.

















I've been doing some more research on perms. I think that the thioglycolate chemical in the perm tends to wear off the hair over time. So I don't know if my hair will get curlier or loosen over time. Anyone else have experience with putting thioglycolate on their natural hair and if it wears off or not?


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## sunbubbles (Feb 13, 2013)

Ahhh!! I love it! It definitely looks thicker in the pic u posted this morning, FABULOUS!

Ive been debating what to do with my hair, cause I love the health of my natural hair, but Im kinda over the time that it takes to detangle, etc. (Im a DENSE 4B) I wonder how this would work on my hair......hhhhhmmmmm.... Im currently 18mths post (I texlaxed a couple years ago after 3 years natural and it was a nightmare cause I didnt take care of my hair after) The last time I had a curly perm was when I was 15 and I LOVED it, mostly cause it was so easy to care for and it grew so fast. Maybe Ill be a guinea pig for the kinkier textures who are interested in WW curly perms for their hair.
Ill be tracking your progress, keep us updated please!


ETA: If the perm eventually wears off, and it has to be re-applied to all the hair, then I wonder is it really doing any type of lasting damage?? In essence would it be similar to a BKT minus the heat?? OOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhh, My spidey senses are tingling......  research time!


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## Valerie (Feb 13, 2013)

Looks really good!


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## Valerie (Feb 13, 2013)

sunbubbles said:


> Ahhh!! I love it! It definitely looks thicker in the pic u posted this morning, FABULOUS!
> 
> Ive been debating what to do with my hair, cause I love the health of my natural hair, but Im kinda over the time that it takes to detangle, etc. (Im a DENSE 4B) I wonder how this would work on my hair......hhhhhmmmmm.... Im currently 18mths post (I texlaxed a couple years ago after 3 years natural and it was a nightmare cause I didnt take care of my hair after) The last time I had a curly perm was when I was 15 and I LOVED it, mostly cause it was so easy to care for and it grew so fast. Maybe Ill be a guinea pig for the kinkier textures who are interested in WW curly perms for their hair.
> Ill be tracking your progress, keep us updated please!
> ...



I also loved the curly perm also, because my hair grew very fast.  It did break off, because the ends kept being done again, however I did use a perm for Caucasian hair and it worked very well, I only did the roots, didn't bother with the perm rods.  I shall also research this as well.


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## Lynnerie (Feb 13, 2013)

Your hair is still the bomb! I love both looks and the good thing is you know you can always go back natural if you want to. 

Thanks for sharing your pics- keep us posted.


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## yuhlovevybz (Feb 13, 2013)

This thread is so informational. And your hair is looking great!


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## PureSilver (Feb 13, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> I hope posting my first experiences with perms will help other naturals who might want more options or are thinking about cutting their hair. I definitely will make a list of dos and don'ts after dealing with my hair like this for the next few months



i think i liked your before hair better, the after one looks nice as well, very shiny too.

well it has certainly opened my eyes to the possibilities for my texture because sometimes i find my hair is TMDW. I would like to use a perm that will help me retain most of my texture as now i'm a 4b going 3b wont hurt i think. Also i would love to know how long that perm lasts. 

I've considered many times going to miss Jessie's for a silkener but i'm not brave enough yet n i dont know anyone here that has tried it.


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## greenandchic (Feb 13, 2013)

SUNSHINE BABY said:


> i think i liked your before hair better, the after one looks nice as well, very shiny too.
> 
> well it has certainly opened my eyes to the possibilities for my texture because sometimes i find my hair is TMDW. I would like to use a perm that will help me retain most of my texture as now i'm a 4b going 3b wont hurt i think. Also i would love to know how long that perm lasts.
> 
> I've considered many times going to miss Jessie's for a silkener but i'm not brave enough yet n i dont know anyone here that has tried it.




SUNSHINE BABY
From what I understand, the "silkener" is just a relaxer with added conditioners left on for a very short period of time.  A texturizer that they charge $$$ to apply.


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## blackindia07 (Feb 13, 2013)

trinity8mod8 I love your results! I think you have more versatility now. You can keep your neat curls the way they are or scrunch them out to give you more volume. (Personally I like big hair LOL)

Like a few other posters said...I had NO idea we could do perms. LOL 

I have a couple of questions if you dont mind...

Is this a healthier alternative to texlaxing?

Can you still straighten your hair? (like flat iron or roller set)

This must be done on natural hair correct?

TIA


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## PureSilver (Feb 13, 2013)

greenandchic said:


> @SUNSHINE BABY
> From what I understand, the "silkener" is just a relaxer with added conditioners left on for a very short period of time.  A texturizer that they charge $$$ to apply.



Thanks ms green and call a fancy name, SMH, plus everything they do requires consultation of $75, too much if u ask me. I've been side eying if for years now but never had the guts to try and to be really honest i wouldn't trust noone in my hair with chemicals unless its a fellow LCHFer that i trust.


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## greenandchic (Feb 13, 2013)

SUNSHINE BABY said:


> Thanks ms green and call a fancy name, SMH, plus everything they do requires consultation of $75, too much if u ask me. I've been side eying if for years now but never had the guts to try and to be really honest i wouldn't trust noone in my hair with chemicals unless its a fellow LCHFer that i trust.



I've been side eyeing them since they were called "Curve Salon" back in the day.   I was intrigued about the silkener (may have been around 2002) until I learned it was really made out of.    Here is a thread about it from 2011.  Sorry to hijack this thread!


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## DarkJoy (Feb 13, 2013)

This all makes me very curious. I'm a fine 4b with cottony hair and ZERO and I mean _ZERO curl definition_. I have to manipulate my hair with so much shingling and fistfuls of product to get just a little definition. All that causes breakage or extreme SSKs, which result in more breakage.

I would consider doing a test patch on my crown which is the most sensitive. 

My worries would be that my hair is so fine that it would appear way too thin with a full process and the fragility of a demarcation line. I was never able to stretch a relaxer.

A plus is that it doesnt appear you have to worry so much about overlapping.

It would be easy now to do it as my hair is just above TWA. ANd if I had to BC again from this it wouldnt be too big of a loss.

I will consider this option with the lowest pH. Thanks OP!


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 13, 2013)

sunbubbles  at spidey senses
yeah I was sick of detangling my hair too. I'm still trying to look up how long perms last and what tightly curled hair looks like after it supposedly wears off. I have only found reviews from WW who say their perms lasts anywhere from 2 to 6 months before their hair is back straight. In another thread I found out about the Rusk thio relaxer and when I looked it up it says it is reversible so I think the same is true for curly perms because it is the same chemical used.

From this source: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/all-about-rusk-anticurl

Valerie thanks

let me know what you both find out in your research!


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 13, 2013)

Lynnerie thanks I will

yuhlovevybz yeah I will be posting everything about perms that I can find in this thread because when I did a search about this topic I only found a few threads, but not with much information about the process and maintenance

SUNSHINE BABY thanks I will update if I think it's starting to wear off

greenandchic oh thanks for the info I had never heard of a silkener before


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 13, 2013)

blackindia07 said:


> trinity8mod8 I love your results! I think you have more versatility now. You can keep your neat curls the way they are or scrunch them out to give you more volume. (Personally I like big hair LOL)


 
blackindia07 thank you, yeah I really wanted more versatility for my wash-n-gos. In the photos I combed my hair really straight so that it would lay down more and I could get bigger waves in my hair, but I usually just finger comb and separate my hair into smaller sections and "scrunch" it when I want it curlier with more volume.



> I have a couple of questions if you dont mind...
> 
> Is this a healthier alternative to texlaxing?
> 
> ...



I've never texlaxed my hair so I don't know if it's healthier and I didn't know how to take care of my relaxed hair properly a few years ago so it always broke off. However, if this treatment does wear off over time then I would say that it is healthier because that means you haven't broken down all of the bonds in your hair. But I will have to get back to you on whether or not that happens for me.

Yes you can still straighten your hair with a flat iron. I actually got the perm that said that regular straightening of the hair is okay and won't disturb the curl pattern, but I rarely straighten.

Yes you shouldn't perm over previously relaxed hair because I have found out that the chemicals are not compatible and it will break off some or all of your hair. I think some women still do though, but you would probably have to moisturize your hair like crazy. Also, perms take better on virgin hair. But if you have permed your hair you can maintain the style with a milder perm that specifically says "for previously permed hair."

Here is a chart of the types of perms available from Tressa, which is the brand that I got:

View attachment Tressa Perms.pdf


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 13, 2013)

DarkJoy your welcome, yeah if you have concerns definitely start with the lowest pH perm because it causes the least change in your hair and probably will wear off faster.


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## gforceroy (Feb 13, 2013)

WOW your hair looks so good !! (Beautiful before and after) Makes me want to do one! lol 
Just curious though... How many boxes did you use?
How many rods? In small sections?


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 13, 2013)

gforceroy said:


> WOW your hair looks so good !! (Beautiful before and after) Makes me want to do one! lol
> Just curious though... How many boxes did you use?
> How many rods? In small sections?



gforceroy thanks I only needed 1 box for APL length hair, and I still had maybe half the bottle of the wave solution left over. I used 22 7/8 inch rods. I originally bought six of the perm rod packs at Sally's and I returned the 2 packs that I didn't need to open. Yeah my mother-in-law did small sections. You can kind of see them in the first "after" pictures before I separated the curls. You should make the parts the same width as the perm rods.


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## blueberryd (Feb 13, 2013)

THANX for alll ur advice and pics!!!! Ur hair looks beautiful! If u ever flat iron, cn u please post a pic


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## BayAreaDream (Feb 13, 2013)

Love your before pictures, your curls were bangin' best of luck with the new style, keep us posted, I know how it feels to want a change. I've been natural, relaxed, texlaxed, colored and back to natural smh...


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## aquajoyice (Feb 13, 2013)

You're hair looks great either way . I'm tempted to say you were more of a 3c before.


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## Lita (Feb 14, 2013)

Very nice before & after..

Happy Hair Growing!


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## ronie (Feb 14, 2013)

Gorgeous head of hair before and after. And thank you for sharing and updating. It's s very informative thread. Wish you luck with your new journey.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 14, 2013)

blueberryd thanks I'll probably flat iron when I reach BSL, hopefully soon lol

BayAreaDream yeah I'm just enjoying the journey. I didn't want to be stressed out about my hair anymore so I knew it was time for change

aquajoyice thanks, in the very front and around my nape I have a looser curl pattern that probably was 3c because now those areas are less curly than the rest of my hair

Lita thank you 

TruthInLove 

ronie thanks now I at least feel better for others that there is a more informative thread about curly perms. I don't mind being a guinea pig lol


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## laurend (Feb 14, 2013)

Honestly, I like your hair natural but you have to do you LOL.  Post pictures when you straighten.


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## Valerie (Feb 14, 2013)

trinity8mod8, you are welcome.


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## leleepop (Feb 15, 2013)

Thio is the chemical used in Japanese Staigthening system. I've seen the stylist in that article use it without gloves on tightly coiled, kinky, curly hair. I noticed its used as frequently as a every 3 to 12 months, and it's not recommended to process the roots. It's permanent but you keep alot of  your elasticity. I think you can even just curl your ends after you've done the staight perm, not sure. I've been looking into thio also. What color where the rollers you MIL used? I like your results. hth


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## keepithealthy (Feb 15, 2013)

Pretty! I like it alot


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## PureSilver (Feb 15, 2013)

God knows  how many times i've considered stretching my curl pattern through this method. I am a 4b not that i am sure but i think it would be so much easier for me to moisturize my hair with looser curls. I'm not sure if i have the guts to do it though, maybe 1 day. OP i'll be looking toward to you posts and hope you reach BSL reach soon cuz i'm watching for those pics of your flat iron


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 15, 2013)

leleepop thanks, yeah I forgot thio was used in Japanese straightening too. I'm hoping the results are permanent because I don't want to do the treatment more than once a year, I used these blue perm rods:



keepithealthy thank you

SUNSHINE BABY it is definitely a lot easier for me to moisturize my curls now. I started out using conditioner and gel, but I found out that I only really needed to use conditioner and I get super defined, shiny curls.

I'm on a vitamin reggie right now taking MSM, biotin, garlic and horsetail everyday  so I'm hoping I reach BSL soon lol


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## leleepop (Feb 15, 2013)

I think the curly perm isnt as permanent since you dont flatiron it in. The hair can come back through its elasticity/memory. I think youre hair will probably tighted in the future, esp if you dont use bad heat practices. Thanks for sharing and keep us posted.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 15, 2013)

leleepop oh that makes sense now. I guess that's why Rusk anti curl says its reversible because they don't use the flat iron like in the Japanese straightening. Same chemical different techniques. And the original pH of the wave solution has something to do with how long the perm is suppose to last too. The one I got said it lasted longer than the acid perms. I'm guessing it affects the elasticity of the hair more like you mentioned.


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## ManeStreet (Feb 15, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> leleepop oh that makes sense now. I guess that's why Rusk anti curl says its reversible because they don't use the flat iron like in the Japanese straightening. Same chemical different techniques. And the original pH of the wave solution has something to do with how long the perm is suppose to last too. The one I got said it lasted longer than the acid perms. I'm guessing it affects the elasticity of the hair more like you mentioned.



Anti curl is a lie. Your curls do no come back & it does not wear off like a bkt does. Its definately permanent.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 15, 2013)

ManeStreet said:


> Anti curl is a lie. Your curls do no come back & it does not wear off like a bkt does. Its definately permanent.



ManeStreet  wow really! I can't believe that they would lie to their customers like that. I guess Naturally Curly didn't verify the results for themselves before posting that article on their site. erplexed Most people who use their product probably don't really care about if their curls come back or not and they get away with saying anything


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## ManeStreet (Feb 21, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> ManeStreet  wow really! I can't believe that they would lie to their customers like that. I guess Naturally Curly didn't verify the results for themselves before posting that article on their site. erplexed Most people who use their product probably don't really care about if their curls come back or not and they get away with saying anything



Yeah that the fact that it was not permanent was the main reason I got it in the first place. I used my research from naturally curly to make my decision. Well, no curls ever came back. But oh well. It didnt damage my hair at all so thats a plus.


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## LadyEuphoria007 (Feb 21, 2013)

Wow this turned out beautiful!

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Glamorous_chic (Feb 21, 2013)

thanks for the info op. i may look into this in the future, either this or wave nouveau.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 21, 2013)

ManeStreet that makes me upset because there is barely any information out there for using different chemicals on our hair type and then when we find something that might work you find out that you were lied to 

LadyEuphoria007 thank you 

Glamorous_chic yeah I think that both processes are very similar, let me know how it works out if you do


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 22, 2013)

This is my hair combed with mousse, then fluffed out with my fingers:


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## FlowerHair (Feb 22, 2013)

Your hair is very pretty OP! I am biased towards natural hair, so I prefer the before photos, but it's cute this way too! 

I thought Thio was involved in a scam many years ago with people's hair falling out...? Am I the only old head here that remembers that? 

Either way, it might be a lot healthier for the hair nowadays.


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## BostonMaria (Feb 22, 2013)

Looks beautiful!

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## wavezncurlz (Feb 22, 2013)

FlowerHair said:


> Your hair is very pretty OP! I am biased towards natural hair, so I prefer the before photos, but it's cute this way too!
> 
> I thought Thio was involved in a scam many years ago with people's hair falling out...? Am I the only old head here that remembers that?
> 
> Either way, it might be a lot healthier for the hair nowadays.



That was Rio! I remember the commercial where they were eating the product. :-/


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## leleepop (Feb 22, 2013)

I did some more research, and looked at the fotki of the girl in that article you posted. She says her hair ended up damaged because of the product, but loooking at her journey I could see her stylist was processing her from root to tip everytime. Her results where still amazing in spite of the overprocessing. So I looked up maintaining perms and its a lot of articles about roots perms.                                                                        You just do the roots when it time and there's some people with tutorials on youtube who did it looping the roller and leaving the ends out or putting the hair in four section and wrapping the ends with seranwrap then rolling. I think that would be the best way to keep you hair healthy because you shouldnt have to reperm whats already permed. hth


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## kimpaur (Feb 22, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> This is my hair combed with mousse, then fluffed out with my fingers:


WOW, so gorgeous!


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## Theresamonet (Feb 22, 2013)

trinity8mod8

I love your results. Especially the fluffed out hair and the pony pic. 

I am concerned about how this would turn out on a cottonier texture though. Does this chemical straighten and curl at the same time? Cause I'm imaging my hair would turn out like a poofy, flexi rod set on a blow out.


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## Kindheart (Feb 22, 2013)

the after result reminds me of my hair ,very pretty before and after


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## Lynnerie (Feb 22, 2013)

Cute pics! Honestly if I didn't know that you permed your hair I would think your after was natural too. Just a looser curl pattern.


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## FlowerHair (Feb 22, 2013)

wavezncurlz said:


> That was Rio! I remember the commercial where they were eating the product. :-/


 
Thank you wavezncurlz 

I apologize for adding confusion in this thread...


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## wavezncurlz (Feb 22, 2013)

FlowerHair said:


> Thank you @wavezncurlz
> 
> I apologize for adding confusion in this thread...



no need to apologize!  thio/rio sounds same.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 22, 2013)

FlowerHair and wavezncurlz

Oh yeah I remember Rio too from the commercials, its a type of acid relaxer I think. Actually a product very similar to how Rio might have worked is the Curlaway Relaxer by Xenna. I tried to duplicate the Curlaway formula at home about 6 months ago, since it is all natural ingredients. I actually was doing a search for natural relaxers and came across their patent with the trials and everything. So I mixed acetic acid and lactic acid with Guar gum to make a gel and I would comb it through my hair then braid it to keep it straightish. It started to work to soften my hair, but it made it too dry so I stopped. My hair felt really dry like if it had been flat ironed too many times. Thankfully the process is reversible so it didn't cause any damage.

Acetic acid softens your hair so that you can actually have it straighter or curlier depending on how you set your hair. You have to do it multiple times at 5% or more though to start to see an affect. I'm pretty sure that is what Rio was using since they were eating it too lol. But I can see how using those kinds of relaxers would have made people's hair fall out. I wouldn't recommend using those treatments either, just based on my bad experiences. But the thio perm actually left my hair more conditioned afterwards and not dry at all.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 22, 2013)

BostonMaria thank you

leleepop OMG, I think you just made my day! I had been wondering about touch-ups without having to re-perm it all. What you described makes perfect sense. So it's called root perms, I'm about to go look up those videos now. Thank you so much! 

kimpaur thank you

Theresamonet thanks, the thiol chemical straightens by softening the Sulfur bonds in the hair, then when you apply the neutralizer (which I think is a hydrogen peroxide solution) your hair bonds re-form around the roller and set to the new curl pattern. If you get an alkaline perm it will give you a very defined curl pattern versus the softer waves of a regular acid perm. The first day that I had the perm my hair was super defined just with conditioner. Now that is has been a couple of weeks the curls are still defined but are a little softer and not as tight. But I don't think you would need to worry about it being too fluffy lol. Running my fingers though it in those pics are the fluffiest I could get it and it still looked really defined so it doesn't frizz easily. My natural hair frizzed a lot more even with butter on it.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 22, 2013)

Kindheart and Lynnerie thank you ladies

Yeah, I really just wanted to elongate the curl more, so I'm happy that the roots loosened up. But actually on a lot of my hair in the back the curl it still type 4 on the ends just looser at the root and it blends with the other larger curls well so it looks really natural, like I just have different curl patterns, which I did even as a natural.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 22, 2013)

trinity8mod8 Which did you use? Alkaline? So yours wasn't a double process where you had to first straighten the hair with the Thio solution, and then set the straight hair on rods?


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 22, 2013)

Theresamonet, no I wouldn't suggest the double processing method. I had my hair already rolled on the perm rods, then added the waving (thiol) solution. After the recommended amount of time then you rinse your hair (still with the rods on) then blot dry, wait 5 minutes then apply the neutralizer. Everything is done with the rollers on so your hair takes the curl better. I saw some women taking the rods off then applying the neutralizer, but I wouldn't because it seems like that would cause more of an irregular curl pattern.

I choose the alkaline perm because the results last longer and because it penetrates your cuticle more. I don't think any hair type needs to be double processed to perm it. I saw a video with a lady with type 4 a/b hair come out with a looser type 3 pattern so I think it is possible to get good results even with very tightly coiled hair.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 22, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> @Theresamonet, no I wouldn't suggest the double processing method. I had my hair already rolled on the perm rods, then added the waving (thiol) solution. After the recommended amount of time then you rinse your hair (still with the rods on) then blot dry, wait 5 minutes then apply the neutralizer. Everything is done with the rollers on so your hair takes the curl better. I saw some women taking the rods off then applying the neutralizer, but I wouldn't because it seems like that would cause more of an irregular curl pattern.
> 
> I choose the alkaline perm because the results last longer and because it penetrates your cuticle more. I don't think any hair type needs to be double processed to perm it. *I saw a video with a lady with type 4 a/b hair come out with a looser type 3 pattern so I think it is possible to get good results even with very tightly coiled hair.*



@trinity8mod8 Can you post the video you saw? I'm not finding any info from anyone, with Afro textured hair, who didn't double process. Except those Gina curl videos; which don't impress me.  It's so frustrating that there is sooo little info on this. No long term progress reports, no one has grown their hair to long lengths (mbl+), etc. Actually, your results are the best I've seen, and you just recently did it.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 22, 2013)

Theresamonet this is the video I saw and I like her results:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y8ya-GNaiy8

but it is one of the Gina curl vids and you said you already saw those lol. I had the same frustrations with there not being enough vids and information so that is why I decided to just do it to my hair and see if i liked it. I think the best results are on longer, virgin hair because it curls more because you still have some of your own texture. I think most of the info you will find on AA hair that has been permed their hair will be short and probably double processed because most AA women haven't learned good hair practices and won't have long hair. That is why I plan to stretch for a very long time but I still don't know what it will be like with the two different textures.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 22, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> @Theresamonet this is the video I saw and I like her results:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y8ya-GNaiy8
> 
> but it is one of the Gina curl vids and you said you already saw those lol. I had the same frustrations with there not being enough vids and information so that is why I decided to just do it to my hair and see if i liked it. I think the best results are on longer, virgin hair because it curls more because you still have some of your own texture. I think most of the info you will find on AA hair that has been permed their hair will be short and probably double processed because most AA women haven't learned good hair practices and won't have long hair. That is why I plan to stretch for a very long time but I still don't know what it will be like with the two different textures.




trinity8mod8 Yeah.. Her client's hair just doesn't look healthy to me. None of them. And she was bragging in one video about growing one of her clients hair "so long"; the woman was _barely_ collar bone length. And she reprocesses the entire head for retouches. I can't get with that. You will be double processed on your next touch up, even if you didn't begin that way.

I want to see a detailed youtube video (with good lighting, and wet & dry shots) of a hip length 4a/b, who single process thio perms her hair to 3c/b...At home, and has been doing so for at least 4 years... Is that too much to ask?? 

Oh, how do you plan to retouch your curl? I don't even understand how one would go able rolling their roots only. 

Thanks for coming back to answer questions, btw.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 23, 2013)

Theresamonet said:


> trinity8mod8
> I want to see a detailed youtube video (with good lighting, and wet & dry shots) of a hip length 4a/b, who single process thio perms her hair to 3c/b...At home, and has been doing so for at least 4 years... Is that too much to ask??
> 
> Oh, how do you plan to retouch your curl? I don't even understand how one would go able rolling their roots only.



Theresamonet  omg, yeah maybe if we could convince one of the long haired ladies around here lol. I would definitely be subscribed to her channel 

I haven't had time to look at the videos for root perms yet but I liked leleepop's suggestions of the method that she found where you wrap your ends in saran wrap first and then do the perm. It sounds like a good idea because my ends were the last to get processed and my roots got a little over processed. So I am guessing that if you saran wrap the ends and perm your hair for 5-10 minutes you could successful re-perm without affecting the ends.

I am planning to re-perm in a year or two with a milder perm. Honestly, I was just wanting my ends to be looser and was hoping I could blend the perm texture with my new growth. I just want my new growth to hang lower like it did when I had relaxed ends on my hair during the few months that I transitioned. I figured that with heavier curly ends my hair would be easier to wear in a wash and go more often because I didn't want to twist and bun it all the time.


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## Shadiyah (Feb 23, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> VeryBecoming It looks really curly and defined. Because I just finished the treatment at 1 am this morning, I didn't want to brush through it and disturb the curl pattern while it is still air neutralizing. I will post more pics after I rinse the deep conditioner out tonight and comb through it.



your hair looks great but please be careful with that chemical this was my weakness for over 10 yrs and about every 5 yrs I had to cut my hair off because it was falling out. now my hair is 3b but was like a 3c do not and I mean do not brush your hair at all. you may find later you will brush your hair right out your head. just style it like you did when you didn't have it in your hair and it needs a lot of moisture. but finger do everything. and do not straighten your hair. 

but it will look nice if you take care of it.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 23, 2013)

Shadiyah Did you have a double process or single? Why do you think it made your hair fall out, since it's supposed to be gentler that  SH relaxer? Are you saying the chemical permantly changed your hair type? And why do they suggest not brushing a perm? I thought it was to prevent frizz.

TIA.


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## Shadiyah (Feb 23, 2013)

Theresamonet said:


> Shadiyah Did you have a double process or single? Why do you think it made your hair fall out, since it's supposed to be gentler that  SH relaxer? Are you saying the chemical permantly changed your hair type? And why do they suggest not brushing a perm? I thought it was to prevent frizz.
> 
> TIA.



Theresamonet no it didn't change my hair type. and it made my hair fall out because my hair can not take chemicals but I never wanted to listen to that I would just keep doing it and it was never over processed I made sure I did it myself someone always helped me but I had control over how long I sat with it on not some stylist who would have me sitting too long because she had others to work on. because it weakened my hair when I brushed it into a ponytail or bun I started brushing my hair right off my head. not saying you are going to have this same type of experience I just wanted to let you know. 

I was telling you about my hair type as to why I did it and the first place. my curls use to be like cork screws so tight and I wanted them to hang. but this last time I cut my hair from it in 2008 my hair was straight and when it grew back in it grew in with a looser curl. It maybe from age. I was using that chemical on and off from my 20's to my 40's when I found out about all the great products they now have for out curly hair and I got it through my head this last battle and the thing is the last time it didn't take long for it to fall out my hair was so thin you could see through it because every other hair was broken off and that only took about 2 months. I was a fool because I knew from the last time in 2002 and I had not done it since then but I don't know what happen that one day I decided to go for it in 2008.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 23, 2013)

Shadiyah said:


> your hair looks great but please be careful with that chemical this was my weakness for over 10 yrs and about every 5 yrs I had to cut my hair off because it was falling out. now my hair is 3b but was like a 3c do not and I mean do not brush your hair at all. you may find later you will brush your hair right out your head. just style it like you did when you didn't have it in your hair and it needs a lot of moisture. but finger do everything. and do not straighten your hair.
> 
> but it will look nice if you take care of it.



Shadiyah thanks, yeah you are right it is always good to be gentle with your hair. When I stopped relaxing my hair and started learning how to care for my natural hair I had to be extra gentle because I have very fine strands that will break easily. When I was natural it would take me a couple of hours to do any style because I always separated my hair into small sections and detangled very slowly and methodically.

With my permed hair having a looser curl pattern it only takes a few minutes to style but I am still gentle and I use protein conditioner to help strengthen it more. I also do hot oil treatments every week or two weeks now because I found that it helps keep my hair very moisturized. I comb it with a medium tooth comb, mostly to remove shed hairs because my fingers don't do such a great job like they did when my hair was natural. I used the Denman brush sometimes with my natural hair, but I think that it is not necessary and I favor combs over brushes. You are right I don't think that permed hair needs to be brushed.


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## kimpaur (Feb 23, 2013)

really considering this..


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## kimpaur (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm too chicken though lol


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## hannan (Feb 23, 2013)

I loved your before picture and was a little skeptical but I see it looks pretty curly dried too. Great job!


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## yuhlovevybz (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm really tempted...I would do this just to give my ends a more uniform pattern and then just let my hair grow on its own.... But my hair is sorta fine so idk...


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## PureSilver (Feb 23, 2013)

@yuhlovevybz
@kimpaur
@Theresamonet
@leleepop

Hi ladies i was doing some research and found these videos ( see below) done on hair with hair on much looser curl pattern that is thick. I hope this is helpful. I liked the results and now i'm more tempted to try. Pretty nice results, the second one is very lengthy and detailed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXOctTPf28M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=kAjO-MMPc4c&NR=1


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## yuhlovevybz (Feb 23, 2013)

^ I didn't like her results...she had beach waves, not curls, and if I did a curly perm I'd want spirals... myhair is too frizzy/wavy and it looks confused. but why did this come up in the suggested videos section? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cTtiGmre5g

ETA: What type of rods is the bottle blonde in this video using??? I like her results. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u2uCDPj9jA


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## PureSilver (Feb 23, 2013)

Maybe you could ask the Mods why it showed up there?

To each her own and maybe some1 out there wants beach waves


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## yuhlovevybz (Feb 23, 2013)

^ I wasn't offended that it was there, I just thought it was funny. I actually liked the results, but was scared when they shaved it off at the end.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 24, 2013)

kimpaur if you are considering getting a perm, but have reservations you should wait for like 6 months. I wouldn't want you to be dissatisfied with the long term results. In a couple of months I can post what it is like handling the two different textures or any other changes that I think might be helpful for you. 

hannan thank you

yuhlovevybz that's exactly what I was thinking for why I wanted the perm. Having looser ends and then just growing it out or perm every couple of years or so.

SUNSHINE BABY and yuhlovevybz thanks for the vids, yeah in the first vid her hair did end up looking wavier rather than curly. A lot of women just want the wavy look for added body. Acid perms make soft waves and alkaline perms make tighter curls. Also if your hair is already tightly curled, I don't think you will have to worry about straight or wavy ends because your ends will still retain some of their curl. I waited 15 extra minutes with my perm on, but my ends still are curly.

And I think the blonde in the other video used spiral rods for the perm.


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## yuhlovevybz (Feb 24, 2013)

Oh ok...I was thinking of using an acid perm since I've dyed my hair a few times in the past, but I definitely don't want my hair to be too loose or straight. Are there gentle alkaline perms?


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## kimpaur (Feb 24, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> kimpaur if you are considering getting a perm, but have reservations you should wait for like 6 months. I wouldn't want you to be dissatisfied with the long term results. In a couple of months I can post what it is like handling the two different textures or any other changes that I think might be helpful for you.
> 
> hannan thank you
> 
> ...


Thanks so much! I think you're right, waiting  is best. Kinda OT, but I'm just getting bored with my hair.


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## PureSilver (Feb 24, 2013)

I'm gonna wait till probably another 2 years before i think about doing anything to my hair and in the mean time research as much as i can about caring for my hair, products and maybe trying a few styles because i have only worn my hair out 4 times and i'm almost 3 years natural.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 24, 2013)

yuhlovevybz yeah the Tressa brand I bought had gentle alkaline perms with pH's of 7.7-9.5. I got the second strongest perm they had at pH 8.5, but they also had ones with pH 8.2 and 7.7 which would be gentler. But there are other brands you can look for as well with alkaline perms like Quantum and One 'n Only. I mainly looked at the reviews for each of the brands to make my decision because you really won't know which if them is the gentlest and gives the best results unless you have used them before. Also if you are worried about your hair being too loose you could leave the alkaline or acid perm in for only half of the recommended time.

kimpaur your welcome. It's funny because I am actually the least bored with my hair when I am able to just comb it and let it dry. When I have to actually style it with straightening, twist-outs or buns I get extremely bored and tired of my hair. Even if it looks nice lol. I don't know if you are like me or completely opposite but I just like wetting my hair and letting it air dry. I did that for most of my life with my relaxed hair so I guess I am just use to wearing it like that. Even when I was a little girl I got so upset when I had to sit down and wait for my mom to finish styling my hair 

SUNSHINE BABY Yeah it is good to research things first. In the two years that I had been natural I was always looking up information about my hair type. Getting the products down was probably one of the most challenging things to do. Wow 4 times, I didn't start wearing protective styles until maybe 8 months after my BC. But even then I couldn't really stick to them. I had so many SSKs though  until I began trimming. So it sounds like you are doing the smart thing lol


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## Missigirl (Feb 24, 2013)

Your hair looks great both natural and permed.  Keep us posted.


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## Curlykale (Feb 25, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> Anyone else have experience with putting thioglycolate on their natural hair and if it wears off or not?



Hi! I've done exactly that for 14 years, with medium perm rods (now I'm natural). No, it doesn't wear off. My natural 3c/4a roots blended well with the rest of the length, but I had to do the roots evry 3-4 months because of tangling where the natural and processed part meet, on the back of my head (I wasn't good at detangling at the time).

Re-processing the entire length (perm rods would force you to do that) gave me breakage. For this reason in order to prevent damage, when my hair stylist did my roots she mixed the perm solution with flour in order to thicken it, and applied it as a relaxer, without touching my length (so that I could grow my hair, which reached armpit length) smoothing and flattening the roots with a small comb (so that the flour mix would dry straight). 

Everytime she left me under mild heat for 15 min or so before rinsing and and neutralizing, this way my curls came out more defined or my roots more straight. Once a year she did the full length again with perm rods, in order to maintain the curly look, and cut about 2 inches from my hair. Any loosened curl became springy again, although results in elasticity varied, but the look was overall the same.

My hair stayed at armpit length which was fine by me especially since I had basically no shrinkage, then I went natural in order to grow it longer among other reasons.


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## Curlykale (Feb 25, 2013)

Overtime, my length became sometimes dull. A gloss with deposit only color always fixed it, I did them often.


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## Curlykale (Feb 25, 2013)

I did have a scary episode of hair falling out. I have no idea if it was the perm or other reasons though.


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## trinity8mod8 (Feb 25, 2013)

Curlykale thank you for weighing in with your experiences with perms and sharing another root perm technique.

I'm happy to hear from someone else that the results don't wear off. I was getting a bit confused about that before. I hope the two textures are not too difficult to manage for me. I have found that using protein conditioner, especially one with keratin and silk helps to soften the hair at my roots and it is detangling pretty easy for now and laying straight so I hope it keeps working.

I don't think I would be able to perm my roots 3-4 times a year. My hair is really fine and I am pretty sure all of my hair would fall off after the second time  I was thinking of no more than once a year and if I did I would probably use plastic wrap or Block It end wraps to protect the previously permed hair like in this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25y5EIbI4Ug

I use HOTs to help keep my hair shiny right now, but I may look into those gloss treatments. Thanks again for all of your input. Everybody is adding so much useful information to this thread


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## Theresamonet (Mar 12, 2013)

trinity8mod8 I know its not even been a month yet, but can I have an update?  How's it going not that it's had a few weeks to settle in?


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## trinity8mod8 (Mar 14, 2013)

Theresamonet it's been a little over a month since I put the perm in. I only have about .75 inch of new growth, maybe an inch in the front which always grows faster than the rest of my hair. My new growth is blending in pretty well. I took some pics yesterday and today that I will post later once the battery is done charging.

It is still easy to detangle so far. Here are a few things that I have learned:


Braid outs look great the first day but rebraiding again or bunning makes your hair too straight.
Use protein conditioners more than moisturizing conditioners.
Use a detangler or leave in conditioner before combing.
Use butter on your hair at least once a week to prevent frizz and keep your hair soft.
Scrunch hair after detangling.
Your scalp will get oiler during the week.
Your curls will look best after you shampoo because product buildup makes your hair a little less curly. But I still only shampoo once per week.

That's all I can think of for now


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## Theresamonet (Mar 14, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> Theresamonet it's been a little over a month since I put the perm in. I only have about .75 inch of new growth, maybe an inch in the front which always grows faster than the rest of my hair. My new growth is blending in pretty well. I took some pics yesterday and today that I will post later once the battery is done charging.
> 
> It is still easy to detangle so far. Here are a few things that I have learned:
> 
> ...



trinity8mod8 So you haven't experienced any breakage at all thus far? Does your hair feel more fragile? Have you ever been relaxed? How would you say the two processes compare, as far the feel and strength of your hair goes?

Sorry about all the questions. This week I went back to stressing about whether I should relax or perm or texlax. And you're my only source for perms on Afro hair right now.


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## trinity8mod8 (Mar 14, 2013)

Theresamonet said:


> trinity8mod8 So you haven't experienced any breakage at all thus far? Does your hair feel more fragile? Have you ever been relaxed? How would you say the two processes compare, as far the feel and strength of your hair goes?
> 
> Sorry about all the questions. This week I went back to stressing about whether I should relax or perm or texlax. And you're my only source for perms on Afro hair right now.



I haven't experienced breakage, but I can tell that my hair is definitely more fragile. That's why I try to be very gentle handling it. As long as you comb your hair with conditioner the extra fragileness shouldn't be a problem. I had been relaxed for most of my life, but my hair is not as fragile now as it was when I relaxed. My relaxed hair would have lots of breakage, especially at the ends and I would have hair all over my shirt a lot of the times. I don't have any breakage like that so I know my hair is much stronger being permed instead.

I am experiencing more shed hairs than before. When I was natural my hair shed a lot too, but the hair didn't always come out when I combed so I would get a lot of tangling. But now the shed hairs come out easily, so it doesn't get tangled and at first I was concerned because it was more than when I was natural. But I realized that none of the hairs where broken or short and that it was just the normal process going on and not breakage.

It's fine, I don't mind answering questions.


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## BraunSugar (Mar 14, 2013)

I found this video for a spiral perm. I think it makes more sense when it comes time for a retouch because they use flexirods instead of permrods, so you don't have to worry about overlapping.

http://youtu.be/g46sBSwCJXs

Glad to see everything is still going well trinity8mod8


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## Theresamonet (Mar 14, 2013)

I have yet to see anyone do a retouch without reprocessing the entire length of hair.


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## greenandchic (Mar 14, 2013)

trinity8mod8 - I would kill for .75" in a little over a month.  I don't even average .5, LOL.

Do you plan on having long hair for the long term or are you going to keep it this length?


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## trinity8mod8 (Mar 14, 2013)

Theresamonet yeah I've read descriptions of what the retouch process should be like but I couldn't find the videos. I found a vid for using end wraps that block the perm from penetrating to previously permed hair, but that's it.

greenandchic well I've been taking MSM, Biotin, Horsetail and garlic pills for about 2-3 months so I think that helped because it usually is .5 inch a month.

I have been planning to grow my hair to at least waist length for my short term goal, but for the long run IDK. I keep thinking to myself that I never should have BC'd because the experience of having short hair has really taken its toll on me lol. Even though my hair is extremely easy to manage now I still find myself being dissappointed sometimes. I kept visiting the "why do you want long hair" thread and even though I liked everyone's responses I couldn't think of a good reason for myself. I can't help but think that as soon as I get to WL and straighten my hair and take pics that I am going to chopped it all off 

I like the look of long hair but actually growing it out is upsetting me lol. I might just maintain my hair in a pixie cut and start wearing wigs after I am done proving to myself that I can grow my hair to what I would consider long. Sorry for the long post I have just been feeling really upset lately that long hair may not be what I thought I wanted and I have invested so much time to  even get to APL erplexed


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## trinity8mod8 (Mar 14, 2013)

Here are pics from yesterday and earlier today:


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## candycan (Mar 30, 2013)

Are those pics of your hair dry or wet.  It looks wet cuz your roots are straight.  Looks flat. But i love the curls! anxious to try this process!


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## HeavenlySkies (Mar 31, 2013)

I wish my hair looked like the before all one texture would be awesome lol


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## trinity8mod8 (Mar 31, 2013)

candycan on the pics on this page my hair was dry. I leave in a keratin conditioner which makes my hair softer and the roots straighter. But yeah it does make the roots look flatter too.

Moustacy when I was natural my hair had three different curl patterns. 3c in the front and nape. 4b at the crown and 4a everywhere else. I could tell by the curl size and how difficult it was to detangle each section.

When it was wet it looked like all one curl pattern, but when it dried the back and sides would shrink more than the front. It looked like a mess until about a year and a half after my BC, then the curl patterns matched better lol


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## Amarilles (Mar 31, 2013)

=o So this was using a curly perm, not a relaxer? Very pretty!

By the way could the straight roots be due to product application? I sub to all hair types on YT and I've noticed the type 2 girls tend to apply their products with their heads upside down (roots not touching the head) because this is a common issue for them. Usually while bent over.

This ain't for me but it looks lovely! Congrats!


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## trinity8mod8 (Mar 31, 2013)

Amarilles thanks. I noticed that type 2 women brush or comb product through their hair upside down too. I tried that when the perm was fresh and it worked somewhat but still made my hair tangle. Now that it has been almost two months my roots are growing out and I actually need to apply product to lay the roots down so that my new growth blends in and doesn't get poofy.


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## DarkJoy (Mar 31, 2013)

I bet it looks fuller with the roots, though! You got pics of it dry?


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## trinity8mod8 (Mar 31, 2013)

DarkJoy yeah my tight curly roots do make it look fuller, if only they blended in without product lol

No I don't have any recent pics of my hair right now dried in the curly state because I have been experimenting with braid and twist outs. I'm under the drier right now doing a HOT, so maybe today or tomorrow I can just let my hair air dry, take pics and do a LC.


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## trinity8mod8 (Apr 2, 2013)

Update (air dried hair):











The curls have gotten a little looser. I cut .5" in February and have been wearing my hair out a lot so I haven't retained much growth.


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## greenandchic (May 29, 2013)

Bump

trinity8mod8, any updates? LOL


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## trinity8mod8 (May 29, 2013)

greenandchic Just realized that I haven't logged into the forum in a while. I last updated in the BSL thread that I was transitioning back to natural, but later on I decided to BC again because I just didn't want to have to deal with my hair for a while.

The perm hair became like really dry and oily at the roots a lot of the time and I had to flat twist it to make it look decent, so I just figured that I might as well go back to natural and do twist-outs again LOL.

For the first couple of months the perm was nice but then it became too difficult to deal with and it wouldn't stay in protective styles and look nice like my natural hair did.

So yeah right now my hair is like 2 inches long, but I don't have any pics of it because I've been really busy for this past month, but I will post some pics when I get a chance of the new length.


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## kimpaur (May 29, 2013)

Thank you for the update


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## greenandchic (May 30, 2013)

trinity8mod8 - Thanks for the heads up - I can't wait to see new photos of your hair!


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## havilland (May 30, 2013)

trinity8mod8 said:


> greenandchic Just realized that I haven't logged into the forum in a while. I last updated in the BSL thread that I was transitioning back to natural, but later on I decided to BC again because I just didn't want to have to deal with my hair for a while.
> 
> The perm hair became like really dry and oily at the roots a lot of the time and I had to flat twist it to make it look decent, so I just figured that I might as well go back to natural and do twist-outs again LOL.
> 
> ...



Thanks for coming back to update. 

Question-- why wouldn't your hair stay in protective styles? And do you feel the perm damaged your hair?

Tia


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## Serenity_Peace (May 30, 2013)

I can't wait to see your pics. Quite honestly, I thought your natural hair was absolutely gorgeous!! 

I hope you're happy with it. Send those pics when you can.


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## trinity8mod8 (May 30, 2013)

havilland if I let my hair air dry I would end up with nice curls but by the next day it would become really dry and the curls wouldn't last, even though they were looser. So I started to put my hair into protective styles like flat twists and buns. And the curls were too loose for my hair to stay twisted by itself so I would add elastics to the ends to keep it from coming untwisted, but somehow my hair would manage to still work its way out of the twist, especially after I'd put my hair in a bun or ponytail. I would end up having to redo the protective style every 2 days for it to still look nice and I didn't like restyling my hair that often.

I didn't have that problem as a natural I guess because the curls were tight enough to stay in the style for a good week at least. I know some women on the forum with type 3 hair say that their hair doesn't last long in protective styles and I think I know what they mean now. Because it seemed pointless to be retwisting my hair every couple of days when the point of the perm was to have easier hair to deal with. And if I left it loose in a bun, without twisting it the next day it would look like a bird's nest LOL.

So yeah I know the perm damaged my hair, like most chemical processes, but I wasn't expecting it to be so dry because when I first did the perm the curls were bouncy and moisturized, and I used the same products so I know now that the effects of the treatment wears off after a while and I had no intention to keep reperming my hair every couple of months because I know that would have damaged it more and left me with short dry hair.


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## havilland (May 31, 2013)

trinity8mod8

i appreciate you checking back in because i was seriously considering doing this to my hair as some point.  so thank you for coming back and answering all my questions!  i am sooooooooooo sorry the perm damaged your hair.


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## DDTexlaxed (Jun 1, 2013)

This reminded me of the time I used the texture softener. The protective styles would not stay in. Your hair will be back the way you had it in no time.:yep


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## whiteoleander91 (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm so sorry that it didn't work out. I know your hair will grow back in no time.


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## ohletsloseit (May 17, 2014)

What products were you using? I'm in the middle if getting this done to my hair right now lol


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## CaraWalker (May 17, 2014)

i loved the before hair.


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## Jace032000 (May 18, 2014)

Me too! Her hair was drool worthy!


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## PinkSunshine77 (May 18, 2014)

I prefer your hair before.


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## CaraWalker (May 18, 2014)

the after hair was wack tbh idk why she preferred it, i guess just because it was looser. it looked unnatural and weird.


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## ManeStreet (May 18, 2014)

bunnycolvin said:


> the after hair was wack tbh idk why she preferred it, i guess just because it was looser. it looked unnatural and weird.



bunnycolvin Let's see your hair....


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## MissC320 (May 18, 2014)

ManeStreet said:


> bunnycolvin Let's see your hair....



Exactly...... 
She always has something mean to say. Smh


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (May 18, 2014)

OP it was interesting to see your journey. THanks for sharing it because I know it will be of help to someone. I think your hair is beautiful and I'm sure you will be back to your former length in no time.


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## CaraWalker (May 18, 2014)

ManeStreet said:


> @bunnycolvin Let's see your hair....



ManeStreet find em if you want em. there are pics around here from time to time. im going to give my opinion just like everyone else if you dont like it oh well  any other questions, comments or concerns? oh, ok, thanks


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## ElevatedEnergy (May 18, 2014)

bunnycolvin said:


> ManeStreet find em if you want em. there are pics around here from time to time. im going to give my opinion just like everyone else if you dont like it oh well  any other questions, comments or concerns? oh, ok, thanks



Girrrrrrllllll you gots to choose your e-battles wisely! lol lol Please don't attempt to go toe-to-toe with ManeStreet cause it will be one e-battle that you will seriously lose. She has the best head of hair I have seen on this board and I can't say the same for other folks who love to criticize everybody else's hair or for the ones who love to encourage folks to cut their hair just cause they scalped their own. I mean well so don't come for me either.

Besides the OP ain't studying y'all. Why y'all bump this thread anyway? Jesus take the wheel.


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## CaraWalker (May 18, 2014)

lulu97 said:


> Girrrrrrllllll you gots to choose your e-battles wisely! lol lol Please don't attempt to go toe-to-toe with ManeStreet cause it will be one e-battle that you will seriously lose. She has the best head of hair I have seen on this board and I can't say the same for other folks who love to criticize everybody else's hair or for the ones who love to encourage folks to cut their hair just cause they scalped their own. I mean well so don't come for me either.  Besides the OP ain't studying y'all. Why y'all bump this thread anyway? Jesus take the wheel.



i have no clue who that poster is and i really could not care less  thanks for the tip though


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## bellebebe (May 28, 2014)

I want an update, OP


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## Jewell (May 28, 2014)

lulu97 said:


> Girrrrrrllllll you gots to choose your e-battles wisely! lol lol Please don't attempt to go toe-to-toe with ManeStreet cause it will be one e-battle that you will seriously lose. She has the best head of hair I have seen on this board and I can't say the same for other folks who love to criticize everybody else's hair or for the ones who love to encourage folks to cut their hair just cause they scalped their own. I mean well so don't come for me either.
> 
> Besides the OP ain't studying y'all. Why y'all bump this thread anyway? Jesus take the wheel.



Huh? Best head of hair on this board? How can you possibly say that when there are over 100,000 members? I'm just saying...have you seen each and every person's hair? Not only that, many pics posted on this board are months and sometimes, years old. Exaggerate much? 

OP I think your hair was gorgeous in the natural state. And it is pretty in the relaxed state. I hope you continue to have success in your HHJ!  I'm sorry that the perm damaged your hair. I totally understand what you mean by protective styles not lasting long. When I was natural, mine did not last as long as I thought they would either. Deep condition and really nurture your hair. 

Maybe it was the type of relaxer you used, and not just the fact that you relaxed it. For example, calcium hydroxide can be especially drying to the hair. I tried it once and regretted it. I stick to lye personally, but each woman has to do what is best for her hair and lifestyle, of course! Box relaxers are the main culprits for many Black women having dry, terribly thin, broken off, severely damaged relaxed hair. They did severe damage to my hair as a child (dried it out and caused marked breakage) and I have never allowed them into my life again, lol.


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## LadyPBC (Jun 19, 2015)

Dang - wish I could see the pictures.  I was thinking about getting a perm but one of my potential stylists said 'no comment' when I asked about it.  When I asked why she never responded.  Not sure if she doesn't know enough about it, doesn't like the idea, hated the jheri curls or what!


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## PatTodd (Jun 19, 2015)

No tea no shade, but I have 4a hair and I would consider this a very bad idea for my hair.  It's basically the same effect as getting a relaxer and when my tight curls grew back in, I would be wearing a "hair hat" until I cut the permed ends off.  @LadyPBC, This is probably why your stylist said, "no comment".


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## LadyPBC (Jun 19, 2015)

@PatTodd - funny the stylist I was referring to has the same last name!  But whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy can't there be some magical product/process out there that would make dealing with my kinky coily curly hair a breeze?  Thank you for responding!


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## PatTodd (Jun 19, 2015)

LadyPBC said:


> @PatTodd - funny the stylist I was referring to has the same last name!  But whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy can't there be some magical product/process out there that would make dealing with my kinky coily curly hair a breeze?  Thank you for responding!



Not to hijack the thread but I know the struggle is real....but it's all technique with this texture. Here's what worked for me:

- I stopped using gel (for me, gel/glycerin = dryness and shrinkage)

- I stopped combing my hair for the most part (because I was combing my  curls OUT, thus creating frizz, especially at the root) and started using fingers only for styling and detangling, using the praying hands method: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlr...ands-method-for-smooth-curls-with-less-frizz/

- I got my hair cut at the Deva Salon (a special dry cutting method which brought my curls to life) and started using Devacurl products exclusively, OneCondition to co-wash and Heaven in Hair to style.

- And finally, I started sealing my hair with good old fashioned grease again. I use Dax and the waxiness, for my hair, is bomb.

And my hair is super defined and healthy with zero frizz.

Hope this helps.


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## LadyPBC (Jun 19, 2015)

@PatTodd - that process seems simple.  MHM  has us using botanical gels and only finger detangling.  I know I need a hair cut but I'm timid.  I'd love to see pictures of your cut and the style results using the simplified process.  Thanks @PatTodd - I appreciate the suggestions/advice!


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## GGsKin (Jun 19, 2015)

LadyPBC said:


> Dang - wish I could see the pictures.  I was thinking about getting a perm but one of my potential stylists said 'no comment' when I asked about it.  When I asked why she never responded.  Not sure if she doesn't know enough about it, doesn't like the idea, hated the jheri curls or what!



OP updated with pics on page 6.


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## greenandchic (Jun 19, 2015)

LadyPBC said:


> @PatTodd - funny the stylist I was referring to has the same last name!  But whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy can't there be some magical product/process out there that would make dealing with my kinky coily curly hair a breeze?  Thank you for responding!



I've been following your posts about your hair and my advice is to keep trying. I had a difficult time with my natural hair and decided to texlax (after a lifetime of being natural).  I had so many tangles and could never wear WnG, only stretched styles.

With that said, sometimes a trim and new products/methods is all you need.


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## LadyPBC (Jun 19, 2015)

thanks @AbsyBlvd  - I'll take a look.  I didn't read through all the posts.

@greenandchic - I want to believe that is more complicated after all these years of trying but it may be just that simple.  I hope it is.  Ihave so many products I'm thinking I have tried almost everything.  To be fair - there are times I think - eureka I've got it but I don't remember how I got to that place and I'm not there for very long.  I would love to remain chemical free.  I will definitely get a trim (maybe a shape up for summer) and try some of the suggestions @PatTodd mentioned.  You, @AbsyBlvd, and @PatTodd all have beautiful hair by the way.


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## Nightingale (Jun 19, 2015)

LadyPBC said:


> thanks @AbsyBlvd  - I'll take a look.  I didn't read through all the posts.
> 
> @greenandchic - I want to believe that is more complicated after all these years of trying but it may be just that simple.  I hope it is.  Ihave so many products I'm thinking I have tried almost everything.  To be fair - there are times I think - eureka I've got it but I don't remember how I got to that place and I'm not there for very long.  I would love to remain chemical free.  I will definitely get a trim (maybe a shape up for summer) and try some of the suggestions @PatTodd mentioned.  You, @AbsyBlvd, and @PatTodd all have beautiful hair by the way.



Have you considered hair analysis? I wouldn't suggest it for everyone, but if you feel like you've tried it all with no success it could be a game changer for you. It was for me. In the long run, it's cheaper than product experimentation.


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## LadyPBC (Jun 22, 2015)

No I haven't @Nightingale - I toughing it through the MaxHydrMethod and I'm seeing noticeable improvement.  If still in doubt the analyis will be my next move.  Great idea - thanks!


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## leleepop (Aug 1, 2015)

I thought I'd post this in here because I've had good experience with this, and her waiting a over a year to get another is a good idea when getting these.


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## Lisa (Aug 2, 2015)

Is it just me because I can't tell the difference ^^^ in the curls!!


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## PJaye (Aug 2, 2015)

^^^ Nope.  That's exactly what I thought, too.


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## leleepop (Aug 2, 2015)

lol it is very subtle,  these are the details about my personal experience with this in 2012. I had/have fine 4a healthy armpit length natural hair and highlights when i did it. Doing curly girl method. It was like being texlaxed and i wore my hair straight the whole summer that year. I loved it. It kinda makes ur hair pliable and it didnt take much heat to flatiron.

I used ISO option 2 perm for  any kind of color treated/processed hair, the gentlist 1. I'm back natural and loving my natural hair now, but if I ever process my hair again I would do this again. I'm glad I tried it, I just had to do the protein treatments(Redken extreme CAT) and a blunt trim in the beginning, but it got back balanced pretty quickly/easily. I used big inch sized rods for mine. I loved it. I also would stretch this to over a year or so,  absolutely no every 3 month treatment. I didnt air perm mine either I just thougth that was interesting so I posted it in here. It's like a jerry curl without that 1st unessesary straightening process and drip drip. you just roll, apply,process then neutralize no heat.


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