# Edit: American National But Not American Citizen



## itsallaboutattitude (Jul 10, 2018)

https://viconsortium.com/top-storie...es-obama-admin-made-similar-argument-in-2014/

American Somoans living in Utah have sued for citizenship birth rights. 

This administration says no territory has birthright citizenship. 

I wonder how they plan to disenfranchise us. 

I am not surprised by this.


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## Laela (Jul 10, 2018)

Trump's administration is only _arguing _that the territory has no birthright citizenship, but it does.  Their attempts to change the constitution, to remove that right will always be challenged and will always fail. But we hold caution, that IMHO, Trump sees the VI (and even PR) as a financial burden and is doing everything is his power to undermine the territories.  When he removed St John from the reserves protection list, he left the land vulnerable to piracy. Time will tell..


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## GreenEyedJen (Jul 12, 2018)

Laela said:


> Trump's administration is only _arguing _that the territory has no birthright citizenship, but it does.  Their attempts to change the constitution, to remove that right will always be challenged and will always fail. But we hold caution, that IMHO, Trump sees the VI (and even PR) as a financial burden and is doing everything is his power to undermine the territories.  When he removed St John from the reserves protection list, he left the land vulnerable to piracy. Time will tell..



The scary thing is the “but it does” part of your statement is that the Supreme Court ultimately has that decision. The SC doesn’t have to change the Constitution—they just have to change the interpretation. And I certainly have no faith that whatever the new makeup of the court as a result of Trump would do the right thing. 
——————————————————————
This is absolutely terrifying. I truly don’t believe the CRM would have been fruitful had we had the current people in office. I’m legitimately scared. I was scared ever since he announced he was going to run, all the while knowing he was going to win. And you know what? That scared me more. All the crap stuff I thought about our political and social systems was 100% true. 

I don’t normally think in extremes when I’m looking outside myself, but to me, it feels like a version of The Handmaid’s Tale is coming and we’re (as a country) just skipping towards it with bells on.


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## dyh080 (Jul 12, 2018)

itsallaboutattitude said:


> https://viconsortium.com/top-storie...es-obama-admin-made-similar-argument-in-2014/
> 
> American Somoans living in Utah have sued for citizenship birth rights.
> 
> ...




We don't have to worry about losing citizenship. Too many individuals , entities and business livelihoods depend on our ignorance.  Also the Democratic Party would implode.....and they can't depend on immigrants because they vote Republican, ha!ha!


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## itsallaboutattitude (Jul 12, 2018)

Just for clarity..

American Samoa never had birthright citizenship.  When getting a US Passport and also when serving in US Military, they receive a different classification - American National.   The article explains that the justification set back in the 20's (?) was that they are savages.  BTW Swain Islands have the same classification as American Samoa. I have never heard of Swain Islands.

Trump admin is now arguing that none of the territories have/should have birthright citizenship.  My passport clearly states my place of birth is US Virgin Islands. So they have a way of identifying us. 

@Laela 
@GreenEyedJen 
@dyh080


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## dyh080 (Jul 12, 2018)

itsallaboutattitude said:


> Just for clarity..
> 
> American Samoa never had birthright citizenship.  When getting a US Passport and also when serving in US Military, they receive a different classification - American National.   The article explains that the justification set back in the 20's (?) was that they are savages.  BTW Swain Islands have the same classification as American Samoa. I have never heard of Swain Islands.
> 
> ...




Being from the V.I. you are not the "us" to which I refer.


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## itsallaboutattitude (Jul 12, 2018)

dyh080 said:


> Being from the V.I. you are not the "us" to which I refer.



Please clarify. Your original post referred to a "we".


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## Laela (Jul 12, 2018)

That is a a valid point..the Constitution is a living document; I'm no legal expert but I'd think even if the existing landmark case's interpretation is changed, it likely won't be an extreme one.  There was a time black slaves, born in the U.S., had no citizen rights at all. Times have changed, and we've come to a place where any Amendment to the Constitution could be subjected to Supreme Court's judicial review. Kavanaugh may tip the scales more to the right by mere political association, but we've been surprised before when the Court ruled.



GreenEyedJen said:


> The scary thing is the “but it does” part of your statement is that the Supreme Court ultimately has that decision. The SC doesn’t have to change the Constitution—they just have to change the interpretation. And I certainly have no faith that whatever the new makeup of the court as a result of Trump would do the right thing.


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## GreenEyedJen (Jul 12, 2018)

Laela said:


> That is a a valid point..the Constitution is a living document; I'm no legal expert but I'd think even if the existing landmark case's interpretation is changed, it likely won't be an extreme one.  There was a time black slaves, born in the U.S., had no citizen rights at all. Times have changed, and we've come to a place where any Amendment to the Constitution could be subjected to Supreme Court's judicial review. Kavanaugh may tip the scales more to the right, but we've been surprised before.



Yes, but as @allaboutattitude stated above, the landmark cases in this realm have all NOT recognized territories as having birthright citizenship, which is ridiculous. The cases (which were actually in the early 1900's) were a way for the US to continue it's colonialization. The case law is outdated, and I wouldn't be surprised if this case came up through the Supreme Court and was basically affirmed in the way the old cases were. 

I mean, the Supreme Court has espoused territorial citizens don't have the right to a jury trial. What's next?


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## Laela (Jul 12, 2018)

Yes, I see what you mean in what he's trying to say/do.. the territories were all _acquired _at different times for different purposes and may no longer be "useful" to the U.S., so tweaking the Constitution to offload them could be a strategy . My opinion: the danger in clumping all the Territories is the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What goes for the black native-borns will go for the whites there; families would likely get separated. Historically, a few whites have suffered alongside blacks in any turning of the political and social tides, so those whites in the territories may be more expendable than they think.. lol  IJS


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## Laela (Jul 12, 2018)

When a racist white person looks at a "black" person in America and say "Go back to Africa"... they couldn't care less if they were born here or the VI or Africa...

They're not gonna ask for papers..



dyh080 said:


> Being from the V.I. you are not the "us" to which I refer.


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## itsallaboutattitude (Jul 13, 2018)

The more you know.  So we may know Puerto Rico is called a Common Wealth. 

Did you also know Kentucky, Virginia, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania are too?


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## itsallaboutattitude (Jul 13, 2018)

From Wikipedia

*United States territory* is any extent of region under the sovereign jurisdiction of the federal government of the United States,[1] including all waters (around islands or continental tracts) and all U.S. naval vessels.[2] The United States asserts sovereign rights for exploring, exploiting, conserving, and managing its territory.[3] This extent of territory is all the area belonging to, and under the dominion of, the United States federal government (which includes tracts lying at a distance from the country) for administrative and other purposes.[1] The United States total territory includes a subset of political divisions.

The United States currently administers 16 territories as insular areas:


American Samoa
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands
Puerto Rico
U.S. Virgin Islands

Minor Outlying Islands
Bajo Nuevo Bank
Baker Island
Howland Island
Jarvis Island
Johnston Atoll
Kingman Reef
Midway Islands
Navassa Island
Palmyra Atoll
Serranilla Bank
Wake Island


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## intellectualuva (Jul 15, 2018)

Laela said:


> When a racist white person looks at a "black" person in America and say "Go back to Africa"... they couldn't care less if they were born here or the VI or Africa...
> 
> *They're not gonna ask for papers..*



Nope. Weren't there were Black American citizens caught up in the original "Muslim ban" because of their name or where they were coming from (due to vacation or visiting family in other countries)? They were eventually allowed to return, but after open their cell phones and pretty much entire lives o the scrutiny of Homeland Security.


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