# Christian Guys Not Stepping Up?



## aribell (Mar 25, 2009)

So, I have an internet dating account that I don't pay for or use, but it still sends me matches.  Recently I got a message from a man named X saying we should talk.  I had seen his profile before and suspected that he was a guy I had gone to church and participated in ministry with.  I ended up Facebook messaging him to see if it was him (so I wouldn't have to pay to find out), and lo and behold, after getting over the embarrassment of having to admit that, yes, he was on an internet dating site, we both laughed about it.

This experience confirms my prior suspicion that too many Christian men are simply *not* taking dating risks and pursuing the women around them.  I hear repeatedly from various young Christian men that they "wish" they weren't single and I just can't figure out what the deal is.  I end up being like, find a godly woman and pursue her!  It's not complicated.  This man was one of those men.  And I know more.

It just seems very ironic that people would pay money to end up being "ideally matched" with someone they've known for years.  Something's not clicking here...


----------



## Raspberry (Mar 25, 2009)

A lot of Christian guys struggle with defining their masculinity in this confusing society just like non-Christian ones do.  In the church we expect them to just know what to do because they're men, yet a lot of them have grown up fatherless or with emotionally absent fathers who haven't shown the way.  Being saved isn't enough, the church really needs to step up in the way it mentors men - instead of just thrusting them into positions and expecting them to perform by instinct. 

There is way more discipleship and support available for women than there is for men.  For example, there are countless discussions in many arenas about how Christian women should prepare for marriage.  Where do Christian men learn about dating and preparing for marriage? Most guys who are trying to be godly know to reject the hyper-masculine selfishness that the world encourages in men, but what should that be replaced with?  This is a problem in black churches especially Since they tend to be mostly female environments, it is mostly a female perspective towards dating and marriage that is explored, men are assumed to be supermen in the rough who don't need help because there's all these women to choose from..

Also, the very nature of men and women often isn't discussed much from a Biblical standpoint in the church and when it is women are usually focus - what's virtuous behavior and what's not.  However, there is much more that needs to be stated about male/female psychology and godly make-up beyond sexual morality topics.  Men especially need to be taught not only who they are in Christ but what God created them for as men.


----------



## momi (Mar 25, 2009)

Edited: Post not really relevant to the topic.


----------



## Country gal (Mar 25, 2009)

Op, interesting that you hear this complaint from christian men in your church.  I would think they have a plethora of available christian women in the church.


----------



## Angelicus (Mar 25, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> For example, there are countless discussions in many arenas about how Christian women should prepare for marriage.  Where do Christian men learn about dating and preparing for marriage?
> ---
> Also, the very nature of men and women often isn't discussed much from a Biblical standpoint in the church and when it is women are usually focus - what's virtuous behavior and what's not.


Thank you so much for posting this. Me and my SO talk about this all the time!

Good thing my SO had a pastor that teaches men how to be responsible men.


----------



## discobiscuits (Mar 25, 2009)

Nicola, the same thing was going on in my church as well.  When I used to be involved in the singles ministry in my church they actually had a 2-3 hour session on just that topic.  Back then there appeared to be a 3/1 ratio unmarried women/men. But if you went to our Men's fellowship or women's fellowship (both held the same day different times and the perfect opportunity to meet LOL) you saw more men than women. Now, the fellowships included marrieds and unmarrieds but still the odds were good and one of the best ways IMO to get hooked up is to "partner" with a married couple and have them introduce you to their unmarried friends or family, but I digress.

The condensed version of that singles fellowship day: 
The men said that the women, while physically attractive, appeared unapproachable.  The men cited things like closed body language and mean or unsmiling facial expressions or aloofness.  The ladies appeared standoff-ish and the men just were in a sense repelled.  The men revealed that they are sensitive and greatly fear rejection.  They said that it is hard enough to get up the nerve to approach a woman but then if they see that woman with an unapproachable attitude why bother?  They rather be safe than rejected.

The ladies mentioned that the men did not approach them.  The prevailing "wisdom" in my church is women do not approach men, yet the ladies asked the ministers and lay teachers why is that so since the bible does not say that anywhere.  The ladies said that if they come off as unapproachable it is because there was no clear instructions on how to behave and what was appropriate or acceptable behavior.  We said we should be able to at least approach a man and engage in a conversation with out it automatically being assumed that woman is pursuing or hitting on that man.

Another prevailing thought and instruction in our church was that men and women should not date one on one and instead fellowship in groups.  That day, that thought process was interrupted and re-vamped. They even put on a skit to demonstrate (a dinner date skit) how two saved sanctified single unmarried adults living in truth can go out on a date and it not be like the world.

The consensus was that it was acceptable for an individual unmarried man and an individual unmarried woman to go out to eat or whatever together without violating God's best.  The preferred method was still upheld to be group fellowship with a group of unmarried adults and the previously mentioned one-on-one was the secondary choice if the preferred method was not available.

That day a lot of us unmarried singles got a lot of chips off of our shoulders and our concerns were heard and addressed.

One of the biggest concerns was that the singles ministry (at that time) did not ever plan group events which of course was not in line with the church's teaching on group fellowship. In fact we've had members enroll in e-harmony, meet their mate and get married.  One of the black couples that used to be featured on that site came from my church.  That is how bad or strict dating and singles was back then that people went to an online service to find their mate. The excuse then was: we have the sports ministry, you can fellowship there.  Well, not everyone is into sports nuff said. 

Now, I have not participated in the singles ministry since that summer which was the summer of 2005 or 2006. There is no longer a singles ministry in my church, at least not as it was.  They have a young adult type ministry but that is for people 18-30. Woe unto you who are over 30 and unmarried, it is men's fellowship (no women allowed) or women's fellowship (Women of God Lifegiver's & no men allowed) and no soup for you! 

Anyway, I'm poking fun at that but it is so difficult in some protestant Christian churches to have fun as an unmarried person and to find a mate and even worse in some of the stricter denominations.  

I also hate the prevailing "wisdom" of women in Christiandom being taught that they have to wait to be "found" a la Prov 18:22.  I mean if we go by some posts in this forum, Proverbs is attributed to King Solomon who is alleged to have been a sexual pervert so why would a woman want to rest on that scripture written by a polygamist who let his "good thing" turn his heart from God? **  (Please LOL @ that comment if you get the reference b/c it is tongue-in-cheeky).  

My opinion has been, and until convicted by the Holy Spirit that my opinion is not scriptural, my opinion will always be that it is permissible as well as advantageous for an unmarried woman to initiate contact with an unmarried man.  I would not pursue a man nor would I suggest any woman pursue a man.  The pursuit is his job but there is nothing wrong or un-scriptural or ungodly or unseemly for a woman to say hello to a man and engage in a conversation and, if she is so confident, to ask him on an outing (or a  date).  Beyond that the man needs to pursue her if he likes what he sees.  I know that my opinion on women asking men out or initiating contact is in the severe minority in this forum but I still stand by it as not against God's word or precepts. 




** Note: In that comment I am NOT saying or alleging that Prov.18:22 is bad or that Solomon is bad. I was trying to express how one can interpret that verse good as it is intended or bad.


----------



## Bunny77 (Mar 25, 2009)

1star said:


> The ladies mentioned that the men did not approach them.  The prevailing "wisdom" in my church is women do not approach men, yet the ladies asked the ministers and lay teachers why is that so since the bible does not say that anywhere.  The ladies said that if they come off as unapproachable it is because there was no clear instructions on how to behave and what was appropriate or acceptable behavior.  We said we should be able to at least approach a man and engage in a conversation with out it automatically being assumed that woman is pursuing or hitting on that man.
> 
> Another prevailing thought and instruction in our church was that men and women should not date one on one and instead fellowship in groups.  That day, that thought process was interrupted and re-vamped. They even put on a skit to demonstrate (a dinner date skit) how two saved sanctified single unmarried adults living in truth can go out on a date and it not be like the world.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your post 1star.

I agreed with nearly all of it, but wanted to focus on certain paragraphs. This is a big issue that I've been stating all along, whether on this board or in other venues.

While singles ministries aren't supposed to turn into Club Church , this idea that they should only be used for learning contentment in singleness is quite damaging as well. If we are teaching unmarried women to not date, fellowship in groups, look for Christian men, etc., yet the church all but discourages that by making the singles ministry a "hands off" zone for men and women to potentially meet, then what's the point?

I have heard a few stories of Christians who finally got fed up, went online to find dates and married not long after that (to other Christians). They say if they'd continued to follow the dictates of their singles ministries, they might still be single and childless today. 

Also, I know this has been mentioned on the board before, but it is disheartening when young people are not given guidance BEFORE they are engaged about proper ways of approaching a woman or proper ways of receiving an approach from a man. I can understand why both the men and women in your story acted the way they did -- if the women have not been encouraged to be friendly and "open" to a man's approach and to constantly be wary of a man's approach, I can see how they'd appear standoffish in the mixer with the men's group. And if the men see this, I could see how they too would choose not to approach. 

Singles ministries should not preach about the importance of group fellowship and avoiding "dating" if they then do nothing to encourage an atmosphere in which this is possible.

As for what you said about initiating contact with a man... I also have no problem speaking to an unmarried man in a friendly manner (but as you know, of course I will not pursue him!)


----------



## Bunny77 (Mar 25, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> There is way more discipleship and support available for women than there is for men.  For example, there are countless discussions in many arenas about how Christian women should prepare for marriage.  Where do Christian men learn about dating and preparing for marriage? Most guys who are trying to be godly know to reject the hyper-masculine selfishness that the world encourages in men, but what should that be replaced with?  This is a problem in black churches especially Since they tend to be mostly female environments, it is mostly a female perspective towards dating and marriage that is explored, men are assumed to be supermen in the rough who don't need help because there's all these women to choose from..
> 
> Also, the very nature of men and women often isn't discussed much from a Biblical standpoint in the church and when it is women are usually focus - what's virtuous behavior and what's not.  However, there is much more that needs to be stated about male/female psychology and godly make-up beyond sexual morality topics.  Men especially need to be taught not only who they are in Christ but what God created them for as men.



Absolutely!!!!  

This is why I also say that all of this talk about women preparing themselves and readying themselves for marriage is bunk if men aren't also being prepared and readied. Each gender has a different role to play in this process, and the idea put forth that once women "get ready," they can marry, is short-sighted if the men are also not prepared.

The idea that there is this large pool of marriage-ready men just a-waitin' for the women to get themselves together is a comforting idea many churches put forth to single women desiring marriage, but it's not reality.


----------



## discobiscuits (Mar 25, 2009)

Bunny, just one thing.  I was not referring to a mixer type thing.  We never did stuff like that.  The standoffishness the men were referring to was in church in general (sad).  As in if a man sat next to a woman in the row she would not even look at or speak to him or if he said good morning she would be all nasty like he was some dude on the street trying to holla.  Or after service, the women gang up in groups and turn their backs to the little groups of men. And all that because of what you said: people were not taught how to behave or interact.  Me? I'll go right up to that group of men and single one out and complement his tie or say Bro. So&So, I saw you driving all crazy to get that last parking spot? (Laughs) You guys see that last game?  The Skins we on fiyah!  (conversation ensues). I make new associates & gain female haters LOL who then ask me the next week: Sis 1star, you know Bro So&So?  He seems nice, you gonna talk to him & his friends again today? (I give sis hater the Christian side eye and then tell her I'll introduce them after service LOL)

Our singles ministry was like you said always about teaching unmarrieds how to live a Godly life and how to be able to stand alone so they never focused on things like group fellowship & fun LOL.  It was up to the single members to gather after the class (yes, it was a class like in college or like a Saturday bible study) and say "hey, let's get together next week for bowling/softball/lunch whatever".  The ministry heads/leaders never organized group events or anything which is what led up to that meeting I spoke of.

I'm glad and sad at the same time that they don't have a singles ministry anymore.  I just got off of the phone with our membership care department and asked about it and why and what for?  LOL I could feel the blank stare through the phone.  When I asked well hey okay then, what about the over 30s? She was like IDK my BFF Jill??? 

I'm just glad I don't have it on my heart to be a wife or mother because I would be one miserable, lonely (possibly bitter) lady right now under the current circumstances and if I did not believe what I believe. (Another note, I'm not saying other women are bitter, miserable or lonely just speaking of myself.)

Also, one of your comments, I too got fed up at one point.  I so agree with this:


> Singles ministries should not preach about the importance of group fellowship and avoiding "dating" if they then do nothing to encourage an atmosphere in which this is possible.
> 
> As for what you said about initiating contact with a man... I also have no problem speaking to an unmarried man in a friendly manner (but as you know, of course I will not pursue him!)


----------



## Bunny77 (Mar 25, 2009)

^^^1star, thanks for the clarification!  

And the way you speak to men is how I do so as well. I work in a male-dominated field, so I am comfortable just "talking" to them in general, whether I'm interested or not. And my "talking" is not flirting... it's simply conversation. (Like you said, something about sports is ALWAYS a good opener!)

I attended a singles ministry when I was in college and by nature, everyone was young and unattached and there was a lot of friendly socializing going on. Today, however, I do think there's a limit on the effectiveness of such groups if you are never-married and over 30.  

Singles groups for younger people or for divorced folks not looking to remarry any time soon (if ever) are fine. For those over a certain age looking to marry, not so much, in my opinion.


----------



## inthepink (Mar 25, 2009)

1star said:


> When I asked well hey okay then, what about the over 30s? She was like IDK my BFF Jill???



Wow - that cracked me up! lol

This is an interesting topic that I totally agree with.  It's already super difficult for singles at church when they are full of married.  So, our radars do go up a bit when we see a single guy sitting alone. And heaven forbid, he actually talk to us - of course, we're already thinking "OMG, a guy is talking to me.  Does he like me? What does this mean b/c it never happens."

Sad truth and I know men hate that.


----------



## discobiscuits (Mar 25, 2009)

I remember this one time (long ago) our church had a week long Singles Summit.  Four days, 4-6 hours a day of teaching, lectures, meetings, etc.  It was supposed to be a response from our now retired pastor to the many requests from the singles for some intense time w/ the pastor.  It was a real blessing there was so much going on.  But at the same time, it was filled with 80% women!  I was not a real participant, I was working in the audio/video ministry for that event so I got to be there and hear/learn for free. LOL I was dismayed at the lack of men in attendance.  Now, that week's bible study was focused on singles too and I was in the pew. By coincidence the entire row in front of me was single men and the row I was in was older married couples (I always attend church alone if I don't have a guest). I was like JACKPOT!!!! DING-DING-DING.   So some of the married couples were chatting w/ the men and I overheard a comment and piped my 2c in (I'm usually on joke time) and said to the row of fellas: "I betcha feel like you have a bulls-eye on yo back right about now huh?  Cross hairs just a aiming for ya!"  Everyone burst out laughing and the whole row of single women in front of the men and the ones behind me were all like "Wha happened?" LOL  The funny part was, the fellas nodded and said "Yeah, we do!"

In re to the OP, I think that the unmarried single men in our churches would step up if they had just a little bit of encouragement to do so.  I think that some of them are intimidated, shy, afraid of rejection, unsure of how to proceed in a church setting vs. out in the "world", tired of the unapproachable vibes they perceive from _some_ sisters, concerned about the air of desperation from (some, not all) unmarried women that I think is palatable in many churches.  I really feel sorry for some unmarried Christian men who desire mates.  I don't think that there are churches that support that desire in them or there is a general assumption that nature will take her course and things will just fall in place.  

People sometimes rely on God bringing or presenting a wife to them (like God did w/ Eve).  I suggest that people look at the example of Adam and Eve in the global sense: Adam, the generic name for the gender man and Eve (life) as gender female.  Individually as a person God took one-on-one development time with Adam and the same with Eve.  In that sense, applied today, God takes time with each of us who desire to marry individually to develop us, teach us, perfect us so that when we do meet (by whatever means) that Adam will recognize that Eve as prepared and equipped and that Eve will recognize that Adan the same way.  People try to use that example of Eve being presented to Adam as how things are supposed to go today: God presents an individual woman to an individual man that He preordained (or at least He chose) and that is just not so (in my opinion).  IMO, God desires to prepare those of us who desire marriage so that when we do come in contact with another prepared person of the opposite sex, we will recognize it.  Then we can use our free will to choose which of those prepared people that we want to have as our mate.

Like the OP said and like Bunny said, there are few prepared or motivated men to step up and into their desired role and few churches out there equipping their marriage-minded members.


----------



## Bunny77 (Mar 25, 2009)

1star said:


> People sometimes rely on God bringing or presenting a wife to them (like God did w/ Eve).  I suggest that people look at the example of Adam and Eve in the global sense: Adam, the generic name for the gender man and Eve (life) as gender female.  Individually as a person God took one-on-one development time with Adam and the same with Eve.  In that sense, applied today, God takes time with each of us who desire to marry individually to develop us, teach us, perfect us so that when we do meet (by whatever means) that Adam will recognize that Eve as prepared and equipped and that Eve will recognize that Adan the same way.  People try to use that example of Eve being presented to Adam as how things are supposed to go today: God presents an individual woman to an individual man that He preordained (or at least He chose) and that is just not so (in my opinion).  *IMO, God desires to prepare those of us who desire marriage so that when we do come in contact with another prepared person of the opposite sex, we will recognize it.  Then we can use our free will to choose which of those prepared people that we want to have as our mate.*



I love this!

The bolded is the process that I feel is taking place with me now... since I started fully embracing and accepting my desire for marriage, I definitely see changes and feel more prepared for the "challenge."  LOL

I truly feel God's preparation at work now, when I didn't a while ago (before I came to God with my desire).


----------



## aribell (Mar 25, 2009)

Two thumbs up to the thoughtful responses here.

I definitely agree that Christian men are hurting and are not being guided properly, though I am happy to say that I've been in a number of churches and ministries where that was not the case.  I also think that we should be praying for them just as much as we pray for "husbands."

Also, I think that there is both fear and perfectionism going on with some men.  Fear in just not wanting to take the risk of being rejected or of it not working out; and perfectionism in looking for a woman that, I don't know, walks on air or something.  It can be worse with men who are particularly spiritual, such that the expecations become unrealistic and that image of the wife they're looking for won't ever match the real women in front of them.


----------



## Ms.Honey (Mar 25, 2009)

I think a big part of it is that they're in no rush to marry. They have no biological clock that rushes them to have children. They also enjoy their single state, hanging out with their boys etc. They also know they are a commodity with so many single women seeking marriage. They don't rush because there is no rush. I've met a few guys who state that they're waiting until their 40's to marry. 

When they're ready, they'll marry and not a minute before.


----------



## PaperClip (Mar 25, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> *I think a big part of it is that they're in no rush to marry.* They have no biological clock that rushes them to have children. They also enjoy their single state, hanging out with their boys etc. They also know they are a commodity with so many single women seeking marriage. They don't rush because there is no rush. I've met a few guys who state that they're waiting until their 40's to marry.
> 
> When they're ready, they'll marry and not a minute before.


 
The longer I live and wait, the bolded seems to be the case. And an extended speculation: when some of these brothers are getting the "benefits" of wifey-ness without the ring/papers, why should they? And this scenario is happening IN CHURCHES as well as OUTSIDE churches.

Recent situation: I got a new washer/dryer and I was sharing the info with some of my church friends via email because it was because one of my church friends was using my old one and caused a flood in my apt. and maintenance checked it and it turned out that it could not be repaired (not my friend's fault but for a while I wondered!) So because of her, I got a new W/D unit! (look at God!)

So anyway, I was sharing the story with my friends from church via email and this one dude was like "I'll drop off my laundry"... I looked at the computer screen like WTFoolishness? I know you just didn't fix your mouth to ask me that!?!?!?

Dude is in his 40s!

I had gotten so ticked off that the rest of them tried to take the edge off by saying he was joking. I was like "um, not funny". And then guess what? After church a couple of Sundays ago, he comes up to me and says "were you serious about that (washing his laundry)?" I looked at him and had to fix my face and my mouth not to go off on him in the sanctuary and I just said "No, we're set". 

This is the same dude who says little things like he might be interested but never "closes the deal", as it were. Apparently he thinks it's just "friendly banter". Yeah, ok....Whatever. 

Sad part is that at one point, I would have given him a chance but his wishy-washyness has ruined any opportunity.


----------



## momi (Mar 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> The longer I live and wait, the bolded seems to be the case. And an extended speculation: when some of these brothers are getting the "benefits" of wifey-ness without the ring/papers, why should they? And this scenario is happening IN CHURCHES as well as OUTSIDE churches.
> 
> Recent situation: I got a new washer/dryer and I was sharing the info with some of my church friends via email because it was because one of my church friends was using my old one and caused a flood in my apt. and maintenance checked it and it turned out that it could not be repaired (not my friend's fault but for a while I wondered!) So because of her, I got a new W/D unit! (look at God!)
> 
> ...


 
Drop off his laundry??? It is funny but I am not at all surprised.

You are exactly right though.... too many men get the benefits without the commitment.

Dog Gone Mama's Boys.


----------



## HeChangedMyName (Mar 25, 2009)

I have a theory about this.  It's not scientific, but purely based upon my observations and speculation about what I think it is.  Here goes:

The church has been turned into a hunting place for a good godly man and they feel like prey.  pushy women who have been out of the natural order that God set forth have scared these men with there forwardness.  But, some of them have relished in it and have become lazy because they got use to being pursued, and thus the balance of man persuing woman has been thrown off balance.

Now, when they see good women, they are either too lazy to put in the time and work it takes to procure a Christian woman, or they are scared that they will be molested and have a "christian" woman pushing all up on them and tempting them.


I'll gone head and put it out there.  I want a Christian godly man and wont settle for less than.  So SOMEBODY needs to have a nationwide day for them to get their acts together cuz, i'm not getting any younger and a sister is ready to get in the order of God and take my place as a wife.


----------



## aribell (Mar 25, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I think a big part of it is that they're in no rush to marry. They have no biological clock that rushes them to have children. They also enjoy their single state, hanging out with their boys etc. They also know they are a commodity with so many single women seeking marriage. They don't rush because there is no rush. I've met a few guys who state that they're waiting until their 40's to marry.
> 
> *When they're ready, they'll marry and not a minute before.*


 
This is why if a man indicates in any way that he's not ready for marriage, then I say it's best to keep it moving, no waiting or second thoughts.  Most will become ready one day, but who knows how long that will be?  (I have to keep reminding myself of this.)  I also understand the perspective, though, since if I could just as well have children in my 40s and 50s as in my 20s and 30s, I'd be in no particular rush either.


But if I hear one more Christian man bemoan his singleness/his search for a wife, I don't know what I'm going to say.

ETA:  There is one young man who has both spoken against celibacy, saying he's _sure_ he could _never_ be celibate (permanently), and this same one talks about not wanting to get married anytime soon.  Sometimes I just want to go into teasing mode and be like, "Well, have fun with that one!"


----------



## HeChangedMyName (Mar 25, 2009)

also, i've heard that men decide that they want to get married first, then they go on the hunt for a wife.


----------



## HeChangedMyName (Mar 25, 2009)

my bad, browser on the fritz--double post


----------



## Ms.Honey (Mar 25, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> The longer I live and wait, the bolded seems to be the case. And an extended speculation: when some of these brothers are getting the "benefits" of wifey-ness without the ring/papers, why should they? And this scenario is happening IN CHURCHES as well as OUTSIDE churches.
> 
> Recent situation: I got a new washer/dryer and I was sharing the info with some of my church friends via email because it was because one of my church friends was using my old one and caused a flood in my apt. and maintenance checked it and it turned out that it could not be repaired (not my friend's fault but for a while I wondered!) So because of her, I got a new W/D unit! (look at God!)
> 
> ...


 
Honey, day one in my singles bootcamp: No cooking dinners except for maybe once, No picking up drycleaning, No cleaning their houses, No wifely duties AT ALL. They weren't doing that anyway but I had to say it 

Honey, some single sisters are so pressed (not my bootcamp girls) they serve them as if they are already the Mrs. Others are just kind but don't recognize how comfortable they've made these brothers. 

You may want to consider brothers older than you are if you haven't already or even one of another race, because the ones your age are usually waiting til their 40's, mid to late 40's at that and when they are ready they're looking for sisters much younger than they are (your age). Mind you ALL of them aren't like that but most of them see that they have many options and aren't concerned about waiting too late to start a family.


----------



## PaperClip (Mar 25, 2009)

SuperNova said:


> also, i've heard that men decide that they want to get married first, then they go on the hunt for a wife.


 
And what I think as well is that some guys just go along with life not necessarily looking to get married or their timeline is further along but they meet a woman that they cannot deny... and they take action.

This is pretty much the situation with my best sistergirlfriend. Her fiance got so hurt in his marriage that his family figured he would not remarry. He didn't expect to remarry but they're getting married in May. It took three years (they both had been married before) and it's all good.


----------



## Ms.Honey (Mar 25, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> This is why if a man indicates in any way that he's not ready for marriage, then I say it's best to keep it moving, no waiting or second thoughts. Most will become ready one day, but who knows how long that will be? (I have to keep reminding myself of this.) I also understand the perspective, though, since if I could just as well have children in my 40s and 50s as in my 20s and 30s, I'd be in no particular rush either.
> 
> 
> But if I hear one more Christian man bemoan his singleness/his search for a wife, I don't know what I'm going to say.


 


SuperNova said:


> also, i've heard that men decide that they want to get married first, then they go on the hunt for a wife.


 
Once they get tired of being celibate they do go on the "hunt" The horny, holy ones are PRESSED to get married  They're to scared of Jesus to sin so they know they have no other option or stay celibate. That's when the sisters are like,"Ummm, you need to stop breathing down my neck, pressing ME!!!" We have a lot of those at my church. Fine, holy and horny.


----------



## Raspberry (Mar 26, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Once they get tired of being celibate they do go on the "hunt" The horny, holy ones are PRESSED to get married  They're to scared of Jesus to sin so they know they have no other option or stay celibate. That's when the sisters are like,"Ummm, you need to stop breathing down my neck, pressing ME!!!" We have a lot of those at my church. Fine, holy and horny.



lol.  Thats what I'm saying, if a Christian man isn't pressed to get married until he's 40 I'm assuming he's sexually active.  I've almost never come across a man who was abstaining for real who was willing to keep that up more than a year or two into the future - and that's usually because something like his finances or grad school is holding him back.


----------



## Country gal (Mar 26, 2009)

Interesting convo ladies. I often think I would have better luck with being with an older man. My last boyfriend was older than me by 15 years and he was ready for marriage. I am dating a baby now, he is still getting his life together. I want someone who is ready to settle down, I feel my prospects would be better spent with older men.


----------



## Southernbella. (Mar 26, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Once they get tired of being celibate they do go on the "hunt" The horny, holy ones are PRESSED to get married  They're to scared of Jesus to sin so they know they have no other option or stay celibate. That's when the sisters are like,"Ummm, you need to stop breathing down my neck, pressing ME!!!" We have a lot of those at my church. Fine, holy and horny.


 
I think that's part of the reason my dh was ready at 23.


----------



## discobiscuits (Mar 26, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> This is pretty much the situation with my best *sistergirlfriend*. Her fiance got so hurt in his marriage that his family figured he would not remarry. He didn't expect to remarry but they're getting married in May. It took three years (they both had been married before) and it's all good.



Is this the woman whose fiance has not been baptized or speak in tongues & the financial issue?


----------



## PaperClip (Mar 26, 2009)

1star said:


> Is this the woman whose fiance has not been baptized or speak in tongues & the financial issue?


 
As a matter of fact it is.... my thought is that if she's going forward, those things have been resolved or dealt with (or not) according to her standards. I'm not putting myself in her business and I left it what what I inquired about it... She doesn't need/she didn't ask for my approval so I'll keep loving, praying, and supporting regardless....


----------



## aribell (Mar 26, 2009)

Country gal said:


> Interesting convo ladies. I often think I would have better luck with being with an older man. My last boyfriend was older than me by 15 years and he was ready for marriage. I am dating a baby now, he is still getting his life together. I want someone who is ready to settle down, I feel my prospects would be better spent with older men.


 
I agree.  For me, over 30 seems to work best...they just know what they want.  There are definitely men in their early-mid 20s that are ready, but it's more hit or miss.


----------



## Ms.Honey (Mar 26, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> lol. Thats what I'm saying, if a Christian man isn't pressed to get married until he's 40 I'm assuming he's sexually active. I've almost never come across a man who was abstaining for real who was willing to keep that up more than a year or two into the future - and that's usually because something like his finances or grad school is holding him back.


 


Southernbella. said:


> I think that's part of the reason my dh was ready at 23.


 
Oh, don't get me wrong now. I do believe that a faithful man of God can abstain for decades once he has determined in his heart to follow Jesus. 

*BUT* a woman is more apt to cross her legs and sit on that honey pot if she believes she still has a decade or more of baby producing time left but once that clock starts ticking........... we're cooking dinner, taking their cars to be detailed, buying expensive gifts, etc.  A brother who can maintain his flesh?  He knows he has ALL the time in the world. Wasn't Larry King like 60 something when he married and started his family? 

Brothers (probably like southernbella's DH ) will usually get married earlier to a sister if she lets it be known from the beginning, "You will not see, touch or even SMELL it unless we are legally married and if someone else steps up before you do.............. 

They can't think straight then. They think someone else may get *THEIR* stuff if they don't move quickly "Man, she hasn't had sex in 50-11 years, oh and she's pretty and holy too but man, 50-11 years, oh and she doesn't fall for my play either but wow, 50-11 years oh and she won't act like I'm her last resort *BUT DANG!!!!!AIN'T NOBODY HAD THAT IN 50-11 YEARS!!!!!*That's when the, "You know, I've been talking with the Lord about you and *HE* said....." discussion**

Men are predators by nature. They can calculate how long it will take and how much pressure to apply, to get what they want by what we allow in our lives. They know by our activities (the narrowness of the path we walk our Christian walk on) what they can and can't eventually do regardless of what we say out of our mouths and believe in our hearts. They're patient. They can hunt the same sister for years if they think they can get what they want from her in the end whether that means they have to wait til marriage or whether they can get it before then. It really doesn't take long for them to figure it out. They're born that way, to size up prey.


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Mar 26, 2009)

If you ladies are feeling discouraged...I found this prayer that if you are a Lady of Faith (believing in God for what you can not see and trusting that he desires to give you His very best).

_[pray]"Lord God, your Word declares that if I delight myself in you—if I enjoy and seek your pleasure above mine—you'll give me the desires of my heart (Psalm 37:4). Desiring a husband is neither evil nor selfish because marriage is honorable (Hebrews 13:4). At the beginning of creation, you proclaimed, "It is not good that man should be alone" and then you created Eve to be a suitable partner for Adam (Genesis 2:18). In the name of Jesus, I ask that you would protect the husband—a suitable partner—you have chosen for me. Because the covenant of marriage is sacred (Mark 10:9), I ask for a man of God. Please give me a husband whose love for me is only outmatched by his love for you; a man who will cherish me and build me up (Proverbs 31:28); a man who will honor me (I Peter 3:7) and our marriage vows; a man who will be a good father and provider; a man whom I will be attracted to physically, emotionally, and spiritually; a man who will love me as Christ loved the church (Ephesians 5:25). Keep me from attaching myself to another man out of desperation. I will not settle for a relationship that's second best, convenient, or one that feeds my insecurities. Guard my purity and give me the patience to wait. And when I meet him, confirm to me that he is the one. Release from me the baggage of past relationships, and prepare me for the man You have chosen to be my husband. Free me from any hindrances to a healthy and godly marriage: insecurities, habitual sins, selfishness, and emotional hurts. Dispel my unrealistic expectations that set me up for disappointment. I place my trust in you rather than my partner. In this period of waiting, I will look to you alone to be my companion and best friend. You are the one who redeems my life from the pit, who crowns me with love and compassion, who satisfies my desires with good things (Psalm 103:4-5). I will not be anxious, but as I present my requests to you, flood me with the peace that surpasses all understanding so my heart and my mind are guarded in Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:6,7). In this request, I commit myself to trust you and do good, to dwell in the land and feed on your faithfulness. I commit my way to you and trust that you will bring it to pass (Psalm 37:35). Amen" [pray]​_(author unknown)


----------



## discobiscuits (Mar 26, 2009)

Remember this thread?   A Man's Persistence is Stronger than a Woman's Resistance 

I think that is true to a point as well.  Men will persist until women relent whether it be sex or marriage.  They only give up if they see that they really and truly are getting no where then they move on.  Next!


----------



## momi (Mar 27, 2009)

This is a really good thread...


----------



## momi (Mar 27, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Oh, don't get me wrong now. I do believe that a faithful man of God can abstain for decades once he has determined in his heart to follow Jesus.
> 
> *BUT* a woman is more apt to cross her legs and sit on that honey pot if she believes she still has a decade or more of baby producing time left but once that clock starts ticking........... we're cooking dinner, taking their cars to be detailed, buying expensive gifts, etc. A brother who can maintain his flesh?  He knows he has ALL the time in the world. Wasn't Larry King like 60 something when he married and started his family?
> 
> ...


 

This is a mouthfull... growing up my dad always told us that men were "hunters" by nature and they will not stop until they catch their prey.


 50-11 years!


----------



## LovelyNaps26 (May 6, 2010)

Ms.Honey said:


> Once they get tired of being celibate they do go on the "hunt" *The horny, holy ones are PRESSED to get married*  They're to scared of Jesus to sin so they know they have no other option or stay celibate. That's when the sisters are like,"Ummm, you need to stop breathing down my neck, pressing ME!!!" *We have a lot of those at my church. Fine, holy and horny*.




@ the bolded: Girl, uh, what church you go to?



But seriously, I've been really thinking this thing through and you are correct. I can understand delaying marriage b/c they love being single and free. I don't like it, but I get it. HOWEVER, how can you stay celibate if you don't have the gift to do so? I was speaking to a brother and sister and she said that she struggled with purity. Shoot, I'm single and saved but I too, have some heathen hormones. The brother was like, "At least you only have few "hot" days a month. Our cycle is every 3 days". That alone should be enough to get men committed to celibacy on the move. 

I for one am shy, but decided this year that if the brother seems interesting, looks aight, I will smile and tilt my head. The whole unapproachable thing is real and I for one won't let that keeps me from getting wifed up. 

If I sound like I'm on a mission, it's 'cause I am.


----------

