# Can our FAITH save others/this world (Believe for Others)?



## cocoberry10 (Dec 8, 2008)

Hello Ladies:

As many of you already know, when I feel convicted by the Lord, I post these types of posts, and here's another.  

I have truly become inspired by what I am about to say, and I feel it is God and the Holy Spirit putting this on me, so I MUST share it with you all!

I have really wondered about this, and I am telling you. I have come to believe that if we LOVED as our Heavenly Father loved, this world could and would be such a different place.

I have become ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED and CONVICTED (actually) that the power of the LORD, through His servants and FAITH is enough to save those who don't want to be saved.

I know what it says in Revelations, and I know that the world will come to an end, but I just NEED to say this to some of you. I'm not sure who this if for, but if you have people in your life (family, friends, etc.), and you are worried that they will not be saved, or if they are unbelievers, I am asking you to BELIEVE FOR THEM.

I don't know whether this should be called a Believe for others challenge, but this is really the truth.  

What has inspired me to come to this place: *GENESIS 18!*

*Abraham, the father of many nations has inspired me to write this post!*

*When God told Abraham to flee from Sodom and Gomorrah ( starting with Genesis 18:16 and read Genesis 19 also), Abraham wasn't simply comfortable with his own salvation.  No, he asked God to spare the city for the sake of righteous men (50, 20, 10, etc.).*

*WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS MENTALITY FOR OTHERS.  WE ARE BECOMING PATHETIC AS CHRISTIANS. WE ARE SO CONCERNED WITH THE RAPTURE. WE ARE SO CONCERNED WITH "GETTING OUR LITTLE PIECE OF SALVATION." DON'T BE CONCERNED WITH THOSE THINGS.  BE CONCERNED WITH THE LORD. BE CONCERNED WITH OTHERS!  AS GOD COMMANDED US, LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF (MATTHEW 22:36-40).*

*I TRULY BELIEVE THAT OUR FAITH, BOTH IN OUR FATHER, AND IN HIS GRACE AND MERCY, IS SUFFICIENT TO SAVE THOSE WE THINK ARE UNSAVABLE.  I TRULY BELIEVE THAT WHEN JESUS RETURNS, IF WE BELIEVE IN LOVE THAT GOD CAN AND WILL SAVE, I BELIEVE HE WILL. LADIES, DOES IT HURT YOU TO PRAY FOR ALL TO MAKE IT TO GLORY? YOU HAVE YOUR GLORY! LET'S WORK ON GETTING OTHERS THEIRS!*

*I KNOW PEOPLE WILL DISAGREE, AND MAYBE I AM WRONG, BUT...*

*I HAVE COME TO THE PLACE THAT I WOULD RATHER DIE BELIEVING THIS, HAVING THE FAITH IN THE LORD, THAN ALLOW MYSELF TO BELIEVE ANYTHING ELSE!*

*WHO STANDS IN FAITH WITH ME?*

*I BELIEVE THAT IF YOU HAVE FAMILY OR FRIENDS, EVEN IF THEY DON'T BELIEVE, IF YOU BELIEVE FOR THEM, YOUR FAITH CAN SAVE THEM!  THAT IS WHAT I AM ASKING US TO COME TOGETHER AND PRAY FOR.*

*WE ARE ASKING GOD TO TAKE OUR FAITH AND SUBSTITUTE IT FOR OTHERS, EVEN THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, AND HAVE MERCY ON THEM WHEN HE JUDGES. DOES HE HAVE TO DO THIS? ABSOLUTELY NOT! BUT MY HEART BELIEVES HE CAN AND WILL!*


*Some Bible References:*

*For if you give, you will get! Your gift will return to you in full and overflowing measure, pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, and running over. Whatever measure you use to give- large or small- will be used to measure what is given back to you."* *(Luke 6:38)*

*"For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. "But if you do not forgive men, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. "* *(Matthew 6:14-15)*

*There is a saying, 'Love your friends and hate your enemies.' But I say: Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way you will be acting as true sons of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even scoundrels do that much. If you are friendly only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even the heathen do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.* *(**Matthew 5:43-48)*

*So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.* *(Matthew 7:12)*

*"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)*


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## chicacanella (Dec 8, 2008)

I believe that our faith and prayer can serve as a bridge or rather intercession on their part BUT as far as them being saved through our faith, as in being saved from everlasting seperation from God and being in hell, only believing in their heart that Jesus was raised from the dead and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord can they be saved.

It says that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

It is good to think that we can act on others behalf cause' this is what is done in intercession BUT ultimately, that person has to use their own will and accept God into their life.


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## envybeauty (Dec 8, 2008)

Yes.  In the bible, there is a story about 4 men who so strongly believed that Jesus could heal their friend, that they all agreed to pick him up, carry him to Jesus, and when they couldn't get in through the door, they went on top of the roof, hoisted him up, and lowered him down into the building.  

*Luke 5:17-26*

 20 When Jesus saw *their* faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."  

This story does not talk about the faith of the paralyzed man. It talks about the faith of his friends.  Classic story about when your faith is used to help others.

When in doubt, turn to your bible for *specific* illustrations.


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## cocoberry10 (Dec 8, 2008)

chicacanella said:


> I believe that our faith and prayer can serve as a bridge or rather intercession on their part BUT as far as them being saved through our faith, as in being saved from everlasting seperation from God and being in hell, only believing in their heart that Jesus was raised from the dead and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord can they be saved.
> 
> It says that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
> 
> It is good to think that we can act on others behalf cause' this is what is done in intercession BUT ultimately, that person has to use their own will and accept God into their life.


 
I respect your post, and yes, God is not going to force His will onto others.  However, I guess what I'm banking on is OUR FAITH for the Lord to grant HIS MERCY on HIS CHILDREN, both those who claim HIM/Believe and THOSE WHO DON'T.

I guess what I'm saying is going deeper for us as Christians.

It really takes what Jesus said about "what does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul?" and turns that back onto Christians.  I guess I challenge us to ask ourselves "what does it profit us to accept our salvation, but not do everything in our human and supernatural power (through our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ) to have faith that God's mercy will occur for others (believers and unbelievers)?"  I am excited about being with my Heavenly Father in His house, in Heaven, when my time here on Earth is finished. BUT, I'm excited to believe that my faith as a Christian is strong enough to get others there too, whether they believe or not.  If I am not making sense, I will try to clarify!

I guess I'm coming to the place where it's not enough for me to know that I am saved. I don't take that fact lightly, by any means. However, I don't feel that I've truly honored God, until I fight for the salvation of all, if that makes sense. No, we cannot FORCE others to believe, that's not our right and it's not our place.

But what I do believe in my heart is that God is the most merciful, gracious and loving Father, and that if His children love Him so much, they would want to see EVERYONE saved.  Only the Lord knows our entire story from beginning to end, but we are called to love all, the way our Father loves us.

And God loves ALL of His children, whether they acknowledge Him as their Father or not. He's still their father too, and I will stand in faith for those who acknowledge Him AND for those who DO NOT!

*Matthew 16:23-28*

23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." 
 24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 *For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.* 26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."


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## Shimmie (Dec 8, 2008)

We're 'Fisher's of Men' and God has used all of us; with our faith in Him to bring many others in and His bringing in even more.

This has been self evident in my life since I've been saived.  People the Lord has lead to me and me to them, and they in turn received Him as Lord.   

Husbands have prayed for their wives; Wives for their husbands; Parents for their children.   Our faith to their faith, has brought them in and God is the one who saved them, through our faith, our love, our testimony of Him.


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## cocoberry10 (Dec 8, 2008)

*Thank you for this story! Very inspirational!!!!*



envybeauty said:


> Yes. In the bible, there is a story about 4 men who so strongly believed that Jesus could heal their friend, that they all agreed to pick him up, carry him to Jesus, and when they couldn't get in through the door, they went on top of the roof, hoisted him up, and lowered him down into the building.
> 
> *Luke 5:17-26*
> 
> ...


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## chicacanella (Dec 8, 2008)

envybeauty said:


> Yes. In the bible, there is a story about 4 men who so strongly believed that Jesus could heal their friend, that they all agreed to pick him up, carry him to Jesus, and when they couldn't get in through the door, they went on top of the roof, hoisted him up, and lowered him down into the building.
> 
> *Luke 5:17-26*
> 
> ...


 
*I believe that when it says, he saw "their faith" that it is speaking about all of them, including the paralyzed man.*

*So, maybe I am not understanding this right but are you Cocoberry saying that even if someone doesn't believe in God nor love him that they can be saved by our faith?*

*I don't think I am understanding you correctly.*

*And I also wanted to note that this man was not screaming and protesting being healed, he also was a willing participant.*


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## OhmyKimB (Dec 8, 2008)

^^^ He may of been a willing participant but how often to do people give up? They think that something will work and then they hit a road block.

I do think that sometimes our faith does actually influence another's life as it does our own lives. As for someone who hates God and such on I really don't know. But for someone else a family member, friend, spouse yeah I think it's possible.


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## cocoberry10 (Dec 9, 2008)

*Thank you for this Shimmie! I completely agree with everything you said.  I guess I'm asking us to keep our faith, like a candle that burns.  It may not light up the entire room, but that one candle can allow you to move around your house, if your power went out.*

*I believe that's what our purpose as Christians is.  Too often, we give up on others, and I feel that our Father NEVER gives up on us, not until that last breath. This challenge is for those who have spouses, family members and friends who either aren't believers or aren't strong believers.  I am asking us to believe for them. I am asking us to take on the same attitude that Abraham had in Genesis 18-19, where it wasn't sufficient enough for him to be saved, unless he plead to the Lord to save his city!  Just imagine the power of believing!*

*I think about Obama becoming the President, and that was through the power of believing. All obstacles were against him, but God set things in motion to ensure that Obama won!*

*I believe that if we believed like this everyday, so many could make it!*

*I hope I'm being clear!*



Shimmie said:


> We're 'Fisher's of Men' and God has used all of us; with out faith in Him to bring many others in and His bringing in even more.
> 
> This has been self evident in my life since I've been saived. People the Lord has lead to me and me to them, and they in turn received Him as Lord.
> 
> Husbands have prayed for their wives; Wives for their husbands; Parents for their children. Our faith to their faith, has brought them in and God is the one who saved them, through our faith, our love, our testimony of Him.


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## envybeauty (Dec 9, 2008)

chicacanella said:


> *I believe that when it says, he saw "their faith" that it is speaking about all of them, including the paralyzed man.*
> 
> *So, maybe I am not understanding this right but are you Cocoberry saying that even if someone doesn't believe in God nor love him that they can be saved by our faith?*
> 
> ...


 

Not that you are wrong, but I don't agree.  That's all.


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## cocoberry10 (Dec 9, 2008)

chicacanella said:


> *I believe that when it says, he saw "their faith" that it is speaking about all of them, including the paralyzed man.*
> 
> *So, maybe I am not understanding this right but are you Cocoberry saying that even if someone doesn't believe in God nor love him that they can be saved by our faith?*
> 
> ...


 
I guess I'm challenging us as Christians to believe in God's love and forgiveness.

Imagine this: Imagine Jesus comes back, and finds you praying for the souls of all men, not just your own.  I know what it says in Revelations about the end of the world, and the destruction of man.

But, there are so many stories where God has mercy, even though he intended to destroy people.  His heart can be moved, and I am calling on us as Christians to have faith in that.

Your have your salvation b/c you believe and you have been saved and you live as well as you can.  But others don't have this. But I believe that our faith and love, is what can save others. Does this make sense?


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2008)

cocoberry10 said:


> *Thank you for this Shimmie! I completely agree with everything you said. I guess I'm asking us to keep our faith, like a candle that burns. It may not light up the entire room, but that one candle can allow you to move around your house, if your power went out.*
> 
> *I believe that's what our purpose as Christians is. Too often, we give up on others, and I feel that our Father NEVER gives up on us, not until that last breath. This challenge is for those who have spouses, family members and friends who either aren't believers or aren't strong believers. I am asking us to believe for them. I am asking us to take on the same attitude that Abraham had in Genesis 18-19, where it wasn't sufficient enough for him to be saved, unless he plead to the Lord to save his city! Just imagine the power of believing!*
> 
> ...


My babies were saved, by my faith.   I will never forget this word that God gave me for them.    

Isaiah 54:13:  Thy Children shall be taught of the Lord, and great shall be the peace of thy Children.  

Therefore, I dedicated my children to Him and made it clear and plain to the devil that he did not have any rights to my 'seed', for God says that my 'seed' (my children and children's children) are blessed.  (Blessed is the Fruit of my body, my womb).  

Then God gave me Acts 4:   

That they would not be able to resist nor ignore the word of God which was spoken unto them.   I kept the word always before my children and they saw my life and stand for God without wavering. 

In Jeremiah 10:   

God said that my children would witness my praises for God and that He would 'hiss' for them and that they would come running.      God indeed did 'hiss' for my babies and they heard His voice which they 'knew' and they came unto Him. 

I prayed the full armour of God over my children, (Ephesians 6) 

The Helmet of Salvation:   The Mind of Christ

The Breast Plate of Righteousness:  The Heart of God the Father 

The Shield of Faith:   Resistance and Standing Against All Sin and Temptations

The Sword of the Spirit:  To Be Ready, Instant with God's Word, which Cuts as a Two-Edged Sword, to the very bone and marrow of opposition.

Feet are Shod With the Preparation of the Gospel of Peace:

They are at the right place at the right time; they have feet as hinds' feet, standing firmly upon God's word, never falling, never stumbling,  never fearing. 

In Isaiah 27: 

God promised to stand guard and that He would keep my children and His promise to save them.   God promised that my children would make peace with Him and they did. 

There's so much more.... God gave me so much for my babies.  And He brought it all to pass.   My children love the Lord and are not embarrassed to bear witness for the Kingdom of God.    

Yes, INDEED YES, our faith can 'save' those whom we dedicate to the Lord and pray for.  Indeed Yes!

To God be the Glory.   Forever and ever, Amen.


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## cocoberry10 (Dec 9, 2008)

Thank you so much for this post Shimmie. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

I just completed a fast. In fact, it was yesterday that the Lord told me to stop fasting, b/c He had revealed the purpose to me.  I planned to finish the fast tomorrow (Wednesday), but it was the Lord who told me I was done. I didn't know why I was fasting when I started, but I now know that this was the reason.

I see so many who worry about people they care about, wondering if they too, will make it to Heaven. And the Lord told me, that if I wanted to see this world saved, pray for the world, the same way that Abraham prayed for his beloved city, even though he didn't have to.

We are saved, b/c we believe!  We get so worried about the wrong things, and this is what the Lord spoke to me during this fast. We are trying to be bible scholars, and there's nothing wrong with that.  But too often, we miss God's heart!

God's commandments, aren't just about us living some restricted life.  He's our FATHER, our parent, and we are His children, and everything He asks us to do is because He loves us, and wants to protect us, not to be mean or strict or boring, like so many believe.

Unfortunately, I don't even think many in the church really understand this, and there are those that stray.

We are becoming a divided world, over the WRONG things. Fight for the RIGHT things, that's what the Lord spoke to me.

Stop worrying about that person that you feel is not living right, and START PRAYING for them!

For God knows our ENTIRE story, from beginning to end. Only He really understands why a person lives "in sin" (which as humans, we all sin). 

God sees what we mere mortals didn't see. He knows why people live the way they do. So, rather than telling people, "if you keep living like this, you will go to Hell," we really need to keep faith and prayer that our candles will burn brighter than that other demonic one's

We are letting that other demonic one win! Too often we are

We are getting so "caught up" with the wrong things.

As I asked before, "does it really hurt me to see everyone make it to heaven?" If I prayed to the Lord to have mercy on all of us, whether we feel we deserve it or not (since we all know none of us deserve it), does it hurt to pray and have that faith?  I ask that question again!



Shimmie said:


> My babies were saved, by my faith. I will never forget this word that God gave me for them.
> 
> Isaiah 54:13: Thy Children shall be taught of the Lord, and great shall be the peace of thy Children.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2008)

cocoberry10 said:


> Thank you so much for this post Shimmie. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.
> 
> I just completed a fast. In fact, it was yesterday that the Lord told me to stop fasting, b/c He had revealed the purpose to me. I planned to finish the fast tomorrow (Wednesday), but it was the Lord who told me I was done. I didn't know why I was fasting when I started, but I now know that this was the reason.
> 
> ...


Thank you , sweet Coco... . 

My baby girl just called me a few moment ago.  She's such a 'giver'.   Not only does she have Jesus in her heart, she gives loves as He gives.


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## chicacanella (Dec 9, 2008)

BeyondBlessed said:


> ^^^ He may of been a willing participant but how often to do people give up? They think that something will work and then they hit a road block.
> 
> I do think that sometimes our faith does actually influence another's life as it does our own lives. As for someone who hates God and such on I really don't know. But for someone else a family member, friend, spouse yeah I think it's possible.


 

*I am not disputing this as I said that our faith is very instrumental in intercession. What I am trying to figure out is what Coco is actually meaning by the word, "save?"*


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## chicacanella (Dec 9, 2008)

envybeauty said:


> Not that you are wrong, but I don't agree. That's all.


 Okay.


Shimmie said:


> My babies were saved, by my faith. I will never forget this word that God gave me for them.
> 
> Isaiah 54:13: Thy Children shall be taught of the Lord, and great shall be the peace of thy Children.
> 
> ...


 

*Yes, I believe this. I guess I thought Coco was saying that our faith can save people who don't wish to be "saved."*

*I think also that faith is great but along with this faith their needs to be action taking. It's good to believe something but if you don't put it into action, what good is it?*


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## chicacanella (Dec 9, 2008)

cocoberry10 said:


> Thank you so much for this post Shimmie. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.
> 
> I just completed a fast. In fact, it was yesterday that the Lord told me to stop fasting, b/c He had revealed the purpose to me. I planned to finish the fast tomorrow (Wednesday), but it was the Lord who told me I was done. I didn't know why I was fasting when I started, but I now know that this was the reason.
> 
> ...


 
*Yes, I definitely believe this. Prayer is a very powerful thing. When you made your first post, I was under the impression that you meant that our faith could somehow force a person to be saved. And in my mine, I am thinking that "God gives us free will to accept him or not." But now, I understand that you are saying through our faith in God, prayer, etc that God will work on their behalf, touch their hearts and minds and use his spirit to draw them near.*

*I think I understand you now. But about not talking about people, you are so right. The same amount of words that we use to talk about someone can be used instead to lift them up to God in heaven. I mean, think about. Our negative words can't really change them for the good. Yes, I believe the power of life and death is in the tongue and people can't speak negatively over a person's life. But instead, we should bring them to prayer and have a much bigger impact by letting God work them out.*

*Hey, I also wanted to come back and say that sometimes I believe that we as Christians don't truly or fully believe that God can change a person because we only see it from a human perspective. I am sure that if you keep that person in prayer, constantly before the throne of God that they will come to accept Jesus as their savior. I admitt that sometimes, I think the enemy has duped me into believing that this person will never change because that is what the world has us believing. But God can save anyone, so I encourage others who may have felt that a particular person in their life isn't worth praying for because their hearts are so hardened to try because God can soften it so his Word will fall on fertile ground. I can't play a part in the enemy's game of making us believe that some will never change. That's why I end up praying for alot of people and this thread has inspired me to pray for some of my friends too.*


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## cocoberry10 (Dec 9, 2008)

Yes, action is the definitely the key!!!!!!!!!!!!



chicacanella said:


> Okay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## cocoberry10 (Dec 9, 2008)

*I agree with everything you said!!!!*


chicacanella said:


> *Yes, I definitely believe this. Prayer is a very powerful thing. When you made your first post, I was under the impression that you meant that our faith could somehow force a person to be saved. And in my mine, I am thinking that "God gives us free will to accept him or not." But now, I understand that you are saying through our faith in God, prayer, etc that God will work on their behalf, touch their hearts and minds and use his spirit to draw them near.*
> 
> *I think I understand you now. But about not talking about people, you are so right. The same amount of words that we use to talk about someone can be used instead to lift them up to God in heaven. I mean, think about. Our negative words can't really change them for the good. Yes, I believe the power of life and death is in the tongue and people can't speak negatively over a person's life. But instead, we should bring them to prayer and have a much bigger impact by letting God work them out.*
> 
> *Hey, I also wanted to come back and say that sometimes I believe that we as Christians don't truly or fully believe that God can change a person because we only see it from a human perspective. I am sure that if you keep that person in prayer, constantly before the throne of God that they will come to accept Jesus as their savior. I admitt that sometimes, I think the enemy has duped me into believing that this person will never change because that is what the world has us believing. But God can save anyone, so I encourage others who may have felt that a particular person in their life isn't worth praying for because their hearts are so hardened to try because God can soften it so his Word will fall on fertile ground. I can't play a part in the enemy's game of making us believe that some will never change. That's why I end up praying for alot of people and this thread has inspired me to pray for some of my friends too.*


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## Evolving78 (Dec 9, 2008)

i guess this about walking in the faith. so many christians have turned unsaved folk away.  it is time that by walking in the faith, we can win people back to Christ.  i know i need to work on this myself.


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## cocoberry10 (Dec 12, 2008)

Bumping for more discussion!!!!!


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## chicacanella (Dec 12, 2008)

I had a very strong dream, which I believe was inspired by the holy spirit. I am pretty sure about it.  In the dream, God gave me a scripture. In the dream also, my mind went like a computer screen because as he was giving me the scripture, I was saying, "Lord, I don't think I will remember this."

So, it was as if he was making sure my brain registered the scriptures. Okay, so imagine when a computer screen goes black. Now, you are sleep and it was if I was seeing a computer screen. On the screen, these verses came up in red. Acts 4:18 and Luke 5:37.

If I remember correctly, the 18 and 37 were flashing. So, then I woke up and wrote them down.

I believe this Acts has something to do with the scripture one of the members gave and that I might have been wrong in my original assessment regarding whose faith Jesus was talking about.  I know God is trying to tell me something with these scriptures, I just have to press into more and ask the holy spirit to reveal it to me. 

It know this was of God because even though one of the members had posted the scripture about faith, I DID not remember where the book was or the number of the scripture.


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