# Supreme Court to Decide on Same Sex Marriage



## Belle Du Jour

The SCOTUS will be deciding on two cases (Prop 8 and DOMA) that will determine whether same-sex marriage can be imposed _everywhere _in America.  

Obama has come out in full support of striking down DOMA  

This could be a major turning point in the U.S. Remember, when Roe v Wade legalized abortion, we ended up with 55 million aborted children in this country. 

*Christians, this is the time to PRAY.  Pray like you have never prayed before.*  Let's stop burying our heads in the sand and saying, "well, it doesn't affect me or my family" or "it's not affecting my salvation." or "well that's on them if they want to do that." _ It affects us all._  Let me tell you where I see this going: if SCOTUS says SSM is a right and a gay couple says, I have the right to get married and we want to get married at X church that doesn't support SSM, if the church says no, that church could probably get sued and lose.  

There is a March for Marriage on March 26: http://www.marriagemarch.org/


----------



## Belle Du Jour

The US Conference of Catholic Bishops filed amicus briefs in support of DOMA and Prop 8: http://www.usccb.org/news/2013/13-030.cfm


----------



## Belle Du Jour

National Organization for Marriage: http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/c.omL2KeN0LzH/b.3479573/k.E2D0/About_NOM.htm


----------



## Krullete

Belle Du Jour said:


> if a gay couple says, I have the right to get married and we want to get married at X church that doesn't support SSM, if the church says no, that church could probably get sued and lose.





*FALSE*.

That scenario is no more likely (nor reasonable) than a divorced Catholic suing the Church, for refusing to officiate a new marriage, or a Lutheran suing because of a Rabbi's refusal to permit his marriage ceremony in the synagogue.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Krullete said:


> *FALSE*.
> 
> That scenario is no more likely (nor reasonable) than a divorced Catholic suing the Church, for refusing to officiate a new marriage, or a Lutheran suing because of a Rabbi's refusal to permit his marriage ceremony in the synagogue.



Thank you for your opinion.  As I stated, that is my concern and I think it's a valid one.  But thank you


----------



## momi

Thanks for this. We will see gay marriage legalized in the USA - I have no doubt about that. 

I've sent my share of letters and voiced my opinion on the matter to friends and family who seem to be blind to the significance of this issue. 

We may be looking towards Twilights Last Gleaming...


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

we must continue to pray more fervently more earnestly ...


----------



## FrazzledFraggle

This precedent which the SCOTUS is about to set is apart of the larger picture of the wickedness and deceit that is taking place all around the world. We all must continue to pray, seek God, and live according to the Word. It is so important that we guard our hearts and minds against corruption so that we are not deceived by sly wording such as "alternative lifestyle" or a "biological sexual predisposition" which seeks to diminish what God has called an abomination. While we can and must stand up against unrighteousness, I believe that gay marriages will be legalized at some point.




> Romans 1
> 
> God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
> 
> 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
> 
> 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
> 
> 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
> 
> 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.



I believe that we are a very short time from having gay marriage legalized. However, we should not be discouraged:

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age



> 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
> 
> 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. *See that you are not troubled; for all[a] these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.* 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,* and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
> 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.*


*

Anyone who cannot see that prophecy is being fulfilled right now has blinders on. The spirit of the anti-Christ is definitely gaining influence in this world and people are being deceived by lobbyists and slick talking politicians. But, even they need prayer! Our SCOTUS needs prayer.

Let's prayer for our nation but also for our justices individually and collectively.

Sonia Sotomayor, Stephen G. Breyer, Samuel A. Alito, and Elena Kagan, Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Anthony Kennedy, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.*


----------



## FrazzledFraggle

Belle Du Jour said:


> Thank you for your opinion.  As I stated, that is my concern and I think it's a valid one.  But thank you



I think your point is a valid one. Our rights and the rights of the church are gradually being eroded away. Many churches have already been sent threatening letters (to revoke their not for profit status) for speaking about politics from the pulpit. While IMO Pastors should not be instructing the congregation to pick a particularly politician, I think every Pastor has an obligation to make sure their congregation understands what is coming and that means that at some point you have to talk about the government's roll in the end times. 

Last year a Christian photographer was sued for declining to take photographs of a gay couple for their wedding. 

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/refuse-to-photograph-lesbians-get-fined-7000/

The Court said: The judges continued, “The act of photographing a same-sex ceremony does not express any opinions regarding same-sex commitments, or disseminate a personal message about such ceremonies.”

Unbelievable right? 

Yes, your point is absolutely valid. The judges wrote that the photography company’s claim of protection under the state constitution’s requirement that “no person shall ever be molested or denied any civil or political right or privilege on account of his religious opinion” was not applicable.

Rights will continue to be taken away and the freedoms that Western Churches have today will not always exist.


----------



## momi

Our church has already amended our by-laws to reflect our position on marriage to prayerfully avoid lawsuits. 

I believe the way they will target churches is to threaten their 501c3 status.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments.  I'm starting to understand more about the protection and erosion of religious freedom that is occurring and will occur.  Have you noticed that having a traditional or religious ideology is considered bigotry now?  

I too fear this is coming but I'm not ready to quit yet.  Remember in Sodom and Gomorrah, God said he would not destroy the city if Abraham could find 10 righteous people.  We know that they found none  but we don't have to go down that road.

I agree with letskeepntouch about lifting up the SC Justices in prayer.


----------



## Kinky4Agirl

Belle Du Jour said:


> The SCOTUS will be deciding on two cases (Prop 8 and DOMA) that will determine whether same-sex marriage can be imposed _everywhere _in America.
> 
> Obama has come out in full support of striking down DOMA
> 
> This could be a major turning point in the U.S. Remember, when Roe v Wade legalized abortion, we ended up with 55 million aborted children in this country.
> 
> *Christians, this is the time to PRAY. Pray like you have never prayed before.* Let's stop burying our heads in the sand and saying, "well, it doesn't affect me or my family" or "it's not affecting my salvation." or "well that's on them if they want to do that." _It affects us all._ Let me tell you where I see this going: if SCOTUS says SSM is a right and a gay couple says, I have the right to get married and we want to get married at X church that doesn't support SSM, if the church says no, that church could probably get sued and lose.
> 
> There is a March for Marriage on March 26: http://www.marriagemarch.org/


 
Wait... I thought there was a law against joining church and state?? How could they sue???


----------



## ClassicBeauty

Krullete said:


> *FALSE*.
> 
> That scenario is no more likely (nor reasonable) than a divorced Catholic suing the Church, for refusing to officiate a new marriage, or a Lutheran suing because of a Rabbi's refusal to permit his marriage ceremony in the synagogue.



I try to tell people the same thing. If the Catholic church can refuse to marry or acknowledge a marriage because of divorce, I'm sure they're not worried about being forced to marry gays. 

I don't have a problem with church folks standing against gay marriage. I just hate this particular argument.


----------



## Kinky4Agirl

ClassicBeauty said:


> I try to tell people the same thing. If the Catholic church can refuse to marry or acknowledge a marriage because of divorce, I'm sure they're not worried about being forced to marry gays.
> 
> I don't have a problem with church folks standing against gay marriage. I just hate this particular argument.


 
I was wondering why you don't like this particular argument when according to the Bible it's an abomination. Aren't we supposed to stand for God and what he believes in? Just wondering. Not judging.


----------



## ClassicBeauty

Kinky4Agirl said:


> I was wondering why you don't like this particular argument when according to the Bible it's an abomination. Aren't we supposed to stand for God and what he believes in? Just wondering. Not judging.



I hate to hear church folks say that the church might be forced to marry gay couples because its not based on facts or law. Argue the biblical reasons, argue for the traditional family values, argue anything you want to, but don't create fear about the state forcing the church to do anything against the Bible.

Women were created equal under the law a long time ago, but I have yet to see the govt. force the church to have a female priest or pastor. That's not how the US govt. works.


----------



## momi

ClassicBeauty said:


> I hate to hear church folks say that the church might be forced to marry gay couples because its not based on facts or law. Argue the biblical reasons, argue for the traditional family values, argue anything you want to, but don't create fear about the state forcing the church to do anything against the Bible.
> 
> Women were created equal under the law a long time ago, but I have yet to see the govt. force the church to have a female priest or pastor. That's not how the US govt. works.



You obviously have too much faith in the US government.  As I stated earlier I believe they would try and use the church's tax exempt status as some type of threat. Some churches are in the place where they accept federal/state funds for benevolence.   My former church received government funds to provide food for the needy and also toys during Christmas season.  Their guidelines prevent churches from sharing the gospel with the recipients... it had to be a neutral ground.  I thought it was pointless to provide physical food but be prevented from providing spiritual food.  So no, they are not above placing restrictions on churches.  



This is the article we have received that encouraged us to amend the language in our by-laws.

http://baptistpress.com/BPnews.asp?ID=39695


----------



## Krullete

^Naturally, if churches solicit and accept the monies and benefits of the citizenry (as represented by the U.S. government), then they are beholden to respect the body of the citizenry as a whole. 

If this is unacceptable or distasteful to them, the churches simply have to get out of bed with the government, and find sufficiency in the funds and donations contributed by their own adherents. Independence maintained!

How is this difficult?


----------



## momi

Krullete said:


> ^Naturally, if churches solicit and accept the monies and benefits of the citizenry (as represented by the U.S. government), then they are beholden to respect the body of the citizenry as a whole.
> 
> If this is unacceptable or distasteful to them, the churches simply have to get out of bed with the government, and find sufficiency in the funds and donations contributed by their own adherents. Independence maintained!
> 
> How is this difficult?



I wouldn't say churches solicit funds but yes many do accept funds with the goal of providing services to those in their communities.  However, hindsight is 20/20 - I'm sure most of them did not see this coming down the pipeline, but only saw the opportunity for benevolence.  

Our church is relatively new, so we knew enough to decline pressure to take the 501c3 status... I thank God for His wisdom where this was concerned.

I am not sure of the outcome, but the Catholic church was or is currently involved in litigation regarding servicing children in foster care and providing adoption services.  They were being forced in certain states to open adoptions to same-sex couples and feared they would have to get out of the business altogether... in cases like this only the children lose.


----------



## momi

Also, the church separation of church and state has been completely taken out of context.  

It is not even written in the Constitution, but was taken from a letter written by an early President.  The purpose was to prevent the establishment of a national religion... 

Clearly, Biblical principals and acknowledgment of a Holy God are ingrained in America's History... 

_Gentlemen, – The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association give me the highest satisfaction. . . . Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. *I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association assurances of my high respect and esteem*._

I don't believe their intention was to remove God from all aspects concerning the state at all... they seemed to have a better grasp on the truth that we seem to have forgotten:  
*
Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Proverbs 14:34*


----------



## ClassicBeauty

Actually the separation of church and state comes from The Establishment Clause which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." It's a part of the 1st Amendment. We have the freedom to exercise our own religion, and the gov cannot establish a religion for this country. 

Now if your church wants federal funds, they have to play by secular rules. That's totally different from being forced to perform a religious ceremony for gay couples.


----------



## FrazzledFraggle

I do not understand the tension/harsh tone in this thread.


----------



## momi

letskeepntouch said:


> I do not understand the tension/harsh tone in this thread.



Hopefully I haven't come across as harsh...  Figured I'd reply since I've participated. Discussions about these issues are usually pretty passionate though...


----------



## Shimmie

Lady Belle, I'll be back with encouragement.   

I'm just getting over the flu and a strep throat; I just came in to let you know that I am praying as well.   

However, please be encouraged.   No matter what happens, it's not a win for gay rights.  Sin is never a win for anyone.  It's a lost of life eternal.   We already know whose at the 'head' of this.   However, God is still in full control. 

Please be encouraged.

I'll be back later in the week.  

Love,
Shimmie


----------



## beingofserenity

The thing is, religious views are irrelevant politically.  That is the price we pay in order to live in a society that is filled with many different people from many different backgrounds. As for that photographer..if you are selling a service and refuse to provide it to someone because you don't agree with their lifestyle that is discrimination. If you don't provide a service to someone because they're black, discrimination. If it's because they're gay, discrimination. Now if you're invited to a wedding of two lesbians and you refuse to go because you don't agree with that lifestyle, that is your prerogative.


----------



## Shimmie

Krullete said:


> ^Naturally, if churches solicit and accept the monies and benefits of the citizenry (as represented by the U.S. government), then they are beholden to respect the body of the citizenry as a whole.
> 
> If this is unacceptable or distasteful to them, the churches simply have to get out of bed with the government, and find sufficiency in the funds and donations contributed by their own adherents. Independence maintained!
> 
> How is this difficult?



No they're not... 

The Church is beholdedn to God, period.  No government can dictate that. 

Something else, the government doesn't waste time soliciting votes from the Church.    The government is in the Church big time, 'conning' for votes from the Church members and their Pastors to convince members to vote for them.

It's always been this way.


----------



## Shimmie

beingofserenity said:


> The thing is, religious views are irrelevant politically.  That is the price we pay in order to live in a society that is filled with many different people from many different backgrounds. As for that photographer..if you are selling a service and refuse to provide it to someone because you don't agree with their lifestyle that is discrimination. If you don't provide a service to someone because they're black, discrimination. If it's because they're gay, discrimination. Now if you're invited to a wedding of two lesbians and you refuse to go because you don't agree with that lifestyle, that is your prerogative.



Really?  Not when they want our votes and money to support their campaigns and legislation.


----------



## momi

Shimmie said:


> No they're not...
> 
> The Church is beholdedn to God, period.  No government can dictate that.
> 
> Something else, the government doesn't waste time soliciting votes from the Church.    The government is in the Church big time, 'conning' for votes from the Church members and their Pastors to convince members to vote for them.
> 
> It's always been this way.



Great point Shimmie...  Not to mention praying for The Lord's favor after a national tragedy.


----------



## Shimmie

Lady Belle...

I promised to come back and comment.  

Sometimes when people won't listen to the 'voice' (The Word) of God, He allows them to 'have their way' (so to speak) only to allow the consequences to capture their attention.   

No matter what the Supreme Court 'decides' (allows themselves to be pressured into), the consequences will prevail upon them and those following in that same path. 

How many times in the Bible did God 'turn people over to a reprobate mind', only for them to reap the consequences.   

Bottomline:  There is no win for this rise in sin.   

Here's what I see occurring: 

If it is passed for gay marriage, it will soon be repealed.   

How can I say this?    

Quite easy.   

It's inevitable, because it is unnatural.  It's self destruction of one's body and soul.  It has no life nor protection that God will give it over that of the Marriage between a man and a woman.  

No matter what the Supreme Court, Obama and the gay agenda strives for, it will never be any validity to persons of the same sex as being married.  It simply does not have the Breath of Life that only God can give.  It will never be honorable, nor will it give dignity or value to humanity, society or to those who partake of it.    They are not married, no matter what man made laws attempt to change.    They are not married nor will they ever be.   

As for the Church... The gates of hell cannot prevail against it.   We are not built upon 'sinking sand'.   We are upon the Rock, the Lord Jesus Christ and we have a purpose to fulfill in this earth, therefore God's protection over us shall prevail.     There is no weapon formed against us that can ever prosper.   Our purpose and destiny is God ordained and will not be deterred nor compromised.  

My deepest hope is for those who 'think' they are gay and must stay that way will be truly delivered and set free from that lie.   No one has to stay in sin, otherwise Jesus died in vain.   It's still a choice... a life choice.   

So many who 'think' they are gay are victims of a deceiving spirit and need to know that God loves them too much for them to 'remain' in that mindset, let alone the destructive lifestyle.   My heartfelt prayer is for their salvation and life restored as God preordained for them.     

Jesus was clear and did not stutter about Marriage being between a man and a woman, *only*.   It will never stand any other way in God's heart.  

The supreme court does not decide on the true meaning of marriage.  Marriage was defined long before any of them ever existed, as a Man and a Woman.  

_*Jesus replied*.  “But at the beginning of creation *God ‘made them male and female. *

*For this reason* a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh.’

So they are no longer two, but one. 

Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” 

Matthew 10 _

When do folks get it? 

By ignoring God's Word; they are also isolating themselves from God's protection.


----------



## Shimmie

Be encouraged.   There is only 'One' Supreme Being and He is not outdone by man's foolishness.  

Here's a beautiful example:

This article amazes me:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/january-february/my-train-wreck-conversion.html?paging=off

*My Train Wreck Conversion*

As a leftist lesbian professor, I despised Christians. Then I somehow became one.

Rosaria Champagne Butterfield 

[posted 2/7/2013 9:26AM ]

The word Jesus stuck in my throat like an elephant tusk; no matter how hard I choked, I couldn't hack it out. Those who professed the name commanded my pity and wrath. As a university professor, I tired of students who seemed to believe that "knowing Jesus" meant knowing little else. Christians in particular were bad readers, always seizing opportunities to insert a Bible verse into a conversation with the same point as a punctuation mark: to end it rather than deepen it.

Stupid. Pointless. Menacing. That's what I thought of Christians and their god Jesus, who in paintings looked as powerful as a Breck Shampoo commercial model.

As a professor of English and women's studies, on the track to becoming a tenured radical, I cared about morality, justice, and compassion. Fervent for the worldviews of Freud, Hegel, Marx, and Darwin, I strove to stand with the disempowered. I valued morality. And I probably could have stomached Jesus and his band of warriors if it weren't for how other cultural forces buttressed the Christian Right. Pat Robertson's quip from the 1992 Republican National Convention pushed me over the edge: "Feminism," he sneered, "encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." Indeed. The surround sound of Christian dogma comingling with Republican politics demanded my attention.

After my tenure book was published, I used my post to advance the understandable allegiances of a leftist lesbian professor. My life was happy, meaningful, and full. My partner and I shared many vital interests: aids activism, children's health and literacy, Golden Retriever rescue, our Unitarian Universalist church, to name a few. Even if you believed the ghost stories promulgated by Robertson and his ilk, it was hard to argue that my partner and I were anything but good citizens and caregivers. The GLBT community values hospitality and applies it with skill, sacrifice, and integrity.

I began researching the Religious Right and their politics of hatred against queers like me. To do this, I would need to read the one book that had, in my estimation, gotten so many people off track: the Bible. While on the lookout for some Bible scholar to aid me in my research, I launched my first attack on the unholy trinity of Jesus, Republican politics, and patriarchy, in the form of an article in the local newspaper about Promise Keepers. It was 1997...


The article generated many rejoinders, so many that I kept a Xerox box on each side of my desk: one for hate mail, one for fan mail. But one letter I received defied my filing system. It was from the pastor of the Syracuse Reformed Presbyterian Church. It was a kind and inquiring letter. Ken Smith encouraged me to explore the kind of questions I admire: How did you arrive at your interpretations? How do you know you are right? Do you believe in God? Ken didn't argue with my article; rather, he asked me to defend the presuppositions that undergirded it. I didn't know how to respond to it, so I threw it away.

Later that night, I fished it out of the recycling bin and put it back on my desk, where it stared at me for a week, confronting me with the worldview divide that demanded a response. As a postmodern intellectual, I operated from a historical materialist worldview, but Christianity is a supernatural worldview. Ken's letter punctured the integrity of my research project without him knowing it.

_(continued next post)_


----------



## Shimmie

*Friends with the Enemy*

With the letter, Ken initiated two years of bringing the church to me, a heathen. Oh, I had seen my share of Bible verses on placards at Gay Pride marches. That Christians who mocked me on Gay Pride Day were happy that I and everyone I loved were going to hell was clear as blue sky. That is not what Ken did. He did not mock. He engaged. So when his letter invited me to get together for dinner, I accepted. My motives at the time were straightforward: Surely this will be good for my research.

Something else happened. Ken and his wife, Floy, and I became friends. They entered my world. They met my friends. We did book exchanges. We talked openly about sexuality and politics. They did not act as if such conversations were polluting them. They did not treat me like a blank slate. When we ate together, Ken prayed in a way I had never heard before. His prayers were intimate. Vulnerable. He repented of his sin in front of me. He thanked God for all things. Ken's God was holy and firm, yet full of mercy. And because Ken and Floy did not invite me to church, I knew it was safe to be friends.

I started reading the Bible. I read the way a glutton devours. I read it many times that first year in multiple translations. At a dinner gathering my partner and I were hosting, my transgendered friend J cornered me in the kitchen. She put her large hand over mine. "This Bible reading is changing you, Rosaria," she warned.

With tremors, I whispered, "J, what if it is true? What if Jesus is a real and risen Lord? What if we are all in trouble?"

J exhaled deeply. "Rosaria," she said, "I was a Presbyterian minister for 15 years. I prayed that God would heal me, but he didn't. If you want, I will pray for you."

I continued reading the Bible, all the while fighting the idea that it was inspired. But the Bible got to be bigger inside me than I. It overflowed into my world. I fought against it with all my might. Then, one Sunday morning, I rose from the bed of my lesbian lover, and an hour later sat in a pew at the Syracuse Reformed Presbyterian Church. Conspicuous with my butch haircut, I reminded myself that I came to meet God, not fit in. The image that came in like waves, of me and everyone I loved suffering in hell, vomited into my consciousness and gripped me in its teeth.

I fought with everything I had.

I did not want this.

I did not ask for this.

I counted the costs. And I did not like the math on the other side of the equal sign.

But God's promises rolled in like sets of waves into my world. One Lord's Day, Ken preached on John 7:17: "If anyone wills to do [God's] will, he shall know concerning the doctrine" (NKJV). This verse exposed the quicksand in which my feet were stuck. I was a thinker. I was paid to read books and write about them. I expected that in all areas of life, understanding came before obedience. And I wanted God to show me, on my terms, why homosexuality was a sin. I wanted to be the judge, not one being judged.

But the verse promised understanding after obedience. I wrestled with the question: Did I really want to understand homosexuality from God's point of view, or did I just want to argue with him? I prayed that night that God would give me the willingness to obey before I understood. I prayed long into the unfolding of day. When I looked in the mirror, I looked the same. But when I looked into my heart through the lens of the Bible, I wondered, Am I a lesbian, or has this all been a case of mistaken identity? If Jesus could split the world asunder, divide marrow from soul, could he make my true identity prevail? Who am I? Who will God have me to be?

Then, one ordinary day, I came to Jesus, openhanded and naked. In this war of worldviews, Ken was there. Floy was there. The church that had been praying for me for years was there. *Jesus triumphed*. And I was a broken mess. Conversion was a train wreck. I did not want to lose everything that I loved. But the voice of God sang a sanguine love song in the rubble of my world. 

I weakly believed that *if Jesus could conquer death, he could make right my world. *I drank, tentatively at first, then passionately, of the solace of the Holy Spirit. I rested in private peace, then community, and today in the shelter of a covenant family, where one calls me "wife" and many call me "mother."

I have not forgotten the blood Jesus surrendered for this life.

And my former life lurks in the edges of my heart, shiny and still like a knife.

Rosaria Champagne Butterfield is the author of The Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert (Crown & Covenant). She lives with her family in Durham, North Carolina, *where her husband pastors *the First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/january-february/my-train-wreck-conversion.html?paging=off


--------------------

Praise God!

God changed this woman's heart and her life...

I'm praying for others to be delivered even more so.


----------



## Shimmie

momi said:


> Also, the church separation of church and state has been completely taken out of context.
> 
> It is not even written in the Constitution, but was taken from a letter written by an early President.  The purpose was to prevent the establishment of a national religion...
> 
> Clearly, Biblical principals and acknowledgment of a Holy God are ingrained in America's History...
> 
> _Gentlemen, – The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association give me the highest satisfaction. . . . Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. *I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association assurances of my high respect and esteem*._
> 
> I don't believe their intention was to remove God from all aspects concerning the state at all... they seemed to have a better grasp on the truth that we seem to have forgotten:
> *
> Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Proverbs 14:34*



momi... such an awesome post.    Thank you for posting the truth.  :Rose:


----------



## Shimmie

I love Job Chapter 5....

8.....*But if it were I, I would appeal to God;

I would lay my cause before him. *

9 He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed,

miracles that cannot be counted. 

10 He bestows rain on the earth;

he sends water upon the countryside. 

11  The lowly he sets on high,

and those who mourn are lifted to safety. 

12  He thwarts the plans of the crafty,

so that their hands achieve no success. 

13  He catches the wise in their craftiness,

and the schemes of the wily are swept away. 

14  Darkness comes upon them in the daytime;

at noon they grope as in the night. 

15  He saves the needy from the sword in their mouth;

he saves them from the clutches of the powerful. 

16   So the poor have hope,

and injustice shuts its mouth. 

17“   Blessed is the man whom God corrects;

so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty.a 

18  For he wounds, but he also binds up;

he injures, but his hands also heal. 

19  From six calamities he will rescue you;

in seven no harm will befall you. 

20  In famine he will ransom you from death,

and in battle from the stroke of the sword. 

21  You will be protected from the lash of the tongue,

and need not fear when destruction comes. 

22  You will laugh at destruction and famine,

and need not fear the beasts of the earth. 

23  For you will have a covenant with the stones of the field,

and the wild animals will be at peace with you. 

24  You will know that your tent is secure;

you will take stock of your property and find nothing missing. 

25  You will know that your children will be many,

and your descendants like the grass of the earth. 

26  You will come to the grave in full vigor,

like sheaves gathered in season. 

27  “We have examined this, and it is true.

So hear it and apply it to yourself.”

-----------

Yes my dear sister, Lady Belle.   I am praying.   As it says in verse 8 above...

_But if it were I, I would appeal to God; I would lay my cause before him_

God calls us to lay our 'cause' before Him in prayer.    

He always listens,  always hears, always answers

Never disappoints...

_For surely there is an end; and thine expectation shall not be cut off.

Proverbs 23:18_

There is an end to the fight of this sin... gay marriage will never win.  

I believe God.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Thank you Shimmie.  I know that SCOTUS cannot truly redefine marriage because it was created by God and I'm praying with all my heart that they realize that.  And you're right--gay "marriage" will never be blessed or legitimate.  I agree that ultimately, if it is passed, it will lead to their downfall, but it will also affect the rest of us.  Our children are already being raised to accept that lifestyle as a "normal" alternative.


----------



## sweetvi

Shimmie

Your back!!!!!!!!!!  Yayyyyyyyy


----------



## Galadriel

Krullete said:


> *FALSE*.
> 
> That scenario is no more likely (nor reasonable) than a divorced Catholic suing the Church, for refusing to officiate a new marriage, or a Lutheran suing because of a Rabbi's refusal to permit his marriage ceremony in the synagogue.



I disagree. We are starting to see disturbing trends in the Western world where the legal system is being used to bully people who believe in and support marriage.

Just like the HHS mandate which can bankrupt churches for not complying with their contraception/abortion health provision, the government can easily mandate certain capitulations of churches. There is also currently a movement among some activists for the government to also revoke religious institutions' tax exempt status, etc.

In any case, I agree with OP that we need to support marriage with our prayers, donations to organizations that are like-minded, and through our votes.


----------



## Galadriel

THANK YOU, Momi!

I'm so tired of sodomite union supporters (sorry, can't use the term "gay marriage" anymore b/c it's a blatant oxymoron) dragging out the Establishment Clause in that manner. What the EC asserts is that the U.S. will not have a state church. A state church is one which is officially financially supported by the state, is given preference over any other religion present in the land, and is the official religion or church of the country.

In the U.S., we do not have a "Church of the United States of America." While we are culturally and demographically predominately Judeo-Christian, we have no state church installed.

The Establishment Clause does not mean we can't vote or petition our government about issue X simply because our view on X stems from or corresponds with our religious morals. If *the religions of relativism and humanism* can advocate for sodomite unions being recognized as marriage, then I can disagree and advocate that marriage not be redefined based on my worldview.




momi said:


> Also, the church separation of church and state has been completely taken out of context.
> 
> It is not even written in the Constitution, but was taken from a letter written by an early President.  The purpose was to prevent the establishment of a national religion...
> 
> Clearly, Biblical principals and acknowledgment of a Holy God are ingrained in America's History...
> 
> _Gentlemen, – The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association give me the highest satisfaction. . . . Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. *I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association assurances of my high respect and esteem*._
> 
> I don't believe their intention was to remove God from all aspects concerning the state at all... they seemed to have a better grasp on the truth that we seem to have forgotten:
> *
> Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Proverbs 14:34*


----------



## Laela

I trust you're doing much better, Shimmie! You stay encouraged as well....






Shimmie said:


> Lady Belle, I'll be back with encouragement.
> 
> I'm just getting over the flu and a strep throat; I just came in to let you know that I am praying as well.


----------



## Shimmie

sweetvi said:


> Shimmie
> 
> Your back!!!!!!!!!!  Yayyyyyyyy





Laela said:


> I trust you're doing much better, Shimmie! You stay encouraged as well....



 

Thank you!


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Thank you Shimmie.  I know that SCOTUS cannot truly redefine marriage because it was created by God and I'm praying with all my heart that they realize that.  And you're right--gay "marriage" will never be blessed or legitimate.  I agree that ultimately, if it is passed, it will lead to their downfall, but it will also affect the rest of us.  Our children are already being raised to accept that lifestyle as a "normal" alternative.



Lady Belle... you echo my heart.   Totally.    

Already young school aged children have been 'sodmized' mentally and spiritually, by the gay agenda to accept homosexuality as a normal part of life.    Yet if it were normal, why are they singling out little children without the consent of their parents? 

This is the number one fail of theirs... the number one fail.  For Jesus was clear that if any one harms even one of His little ones, it's better for a milstone to be tied about their necks and thrown into the sea.     Their intentions are not for good, but for evil.  

It's a spirit behind all of this, otherwise it would not be so global.   The consequences are yet to unfold.    I can literally see parents rising up against this agenda and the government, fighting for the lives, the health and the souls of their children.      

People who now support the gay agenda, will rescind their support.   They will not be happy watching their children taking on the gay lifestyle and acceptance of it.  Many parents will be sick at heart who once thought support of it was okay.   Yet, they will  have deep remorse and regret.   There will be the Truth which cannot be escaped from... the truth of the reality that this is not what they intended for their children to become a part of.   

There is an innate nature in humans who do not wish to be subjected to such an offense upon their children.    Mothers will not want their daughters to be in unnatural relationships; Men will not want their sons to among ones who switch and sway.    It's 'nature', inborn in the hearts of men and women who know that this is not the life that they intended for their children and they will literally 'curse' the influence, the seducing spirits, the lies.   They will storm the gates of the government rescinding every word/deed of support.  

I sincerely pray that the supreme court will be sickened to their very core; the core of their being, the very core of their conscious, they shall not prevail in their endeavors.   

I have not oughts against an indivual who says they are gay.   My aim is against the spirit behind it.   It shall lnot prevail, in Jesus' Name.   Amen!


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> THANK YOU, Momi!
> 
> I'm so tired of sodomite union supporters (sorry, can't use the term "gay marriage" anymore b/c it's a blatant oxymoron) dragging out the Establishment Clause in that manner. What the EC asserts is that the U.S. will not have a state church. A state church is one which is officially financially supported by the state, is given preference over any other religion present in the land, and is the official religion or church of the country.
> 
> In the U.S., we do not have a "Church of the United States of America." While we are culturally and demographically predominately Judeo-Christian, we have no state church installed.
> 
> The Establishment Clause does not mean we can't vote or petition our government about issue X simply because our view on X stems from or corresponds with our religious morals. If *the religions of relativism and humanism* can advocate for sodomite unions being recognized as marriage, then I can disagree and advocate that marriage not be redefined based on my worldview.



Galadriel.... you always bless me with your wisdom of God and vast knowledge of the the government / political system.


----------



## momi

Galadriel said:


> THANK YOU, Momi!
> 
> I'm so tired of sodomite union supporters (sorry, can't use the term "gay marriage" anymore b/c it's a blatant oxymoron) dragging out the Establishment Clause in that manner. What the EC asserts is that the U.S. will not have a state church. A state church is one which is officially financially supported by the state, is given preference over any other religion present in the land, and is the official religion or church of the country.
> 
> In the U.S., we do not have a "Church of the United States of America." While we are culturally and demographically predominately Judeo-Christian, we have no state church installed.
> 
> The Establishment Clause does not mean we can't vote or petition our government about issue X simply because our view on X stems from or corresponds with our religious morals. If *the religions of relativism and humanism* can advocate for sodomite unions being recognized as marriage, then I can disagree and advocate that marriage not be redefined based on my worldview.


 
Your explanation is much more clear than mine... yes I will be copying and pasting. 

Shimmie - thank you for sharing Sis. Rosaria's story...it was beautiful.


----------



## Kinky4Agirl

beingofserenity said:


> The thing is, religious views are irrelevant politically. That is the price we pay in order to live in a society that is filled with many different people from many different backgrounds. As for that photographer..if you are selling a service and refuse to provide it to someone because you don't agree with their lifestyle that is discrimination. If you don't provide a service to someone because they're black, discrimination. If it's because they're gay, discrimination. Now if you're invited to a wedding of two lesbians and you refuse to go because you don't agree with that lifestyle, that is your prerogative.


 
I lovingly disagree...

Is it discrimination when a girl wants to be the kicker for the NFL? When a boy wants to be a girlscout? When a girl wants to play professional baseball or when a boy wants to be miss America? No? Same sentiment for the church. IF a church does not indulge in certain practices, refusal of these practices to individuals is not discrimination.


----------



## Kinky4Agirl

Shimmie said:


> Lady Belle... you echo my heart. Totally.
> 
> Already young school aged children have been 'sodmized' mentally and spiritually, by the gay agenda to accept homosexuality as a normal part of life. Yet if it were normal, why are they singling out little children without the consent of their parents?
> 
> This is the number one fail of theirs... the number one fail. For Jesus was clear that if any one harms even one of His little ones, it's better for a milstone to be tied about their necks and thrown into the sea. Their intentions are not for good, but for evil.
> 
> It's a spirit behind all of this, otherwise it would not be so global. The consequences are yet to unfold. I can literally see parents rising up against this agenda and the government, fighting for the lives, the health and the souls of their children.
> 
> People who now support the gay agenda, will rescind their support. They will not be happy watching their children taking on the gay lifestyle and acceptance of it. Many parents will be sick at heart who once thought support of it was okay. Yet, they will have deep remorse and regret. There will be the Truth which cannot be escaped from... the truth of the reality that this is not what they intended for their children to become a part of.
> 
> There is an innate nature in humans who do not wish to be subjected to such an offense upon their children. Mothers will not want their daughters to be in unnatural relationships; Men will not want their sons to among ones who switch and sway. It's 'nature', inborn in the hearts of men and women who know that this is not the life that they intended for their children and they will literally 'curse' the influence, the seducing spirits, the lies. They will storm the gates of the government rescinding every word/deed of support.
> 
> I sincerely pray that the supreme court will be sickened to their very core; the core of their being, the very core of their conscious, they shall not prevail in their endeavors.
> 
> I have not oughts against an indivual who says they are gay. My aim is against the spirit behind it. It shall lnot prevail, in Jesus' Name. Amen!


 
It is global because the world is burning in their loins for same sex relationships. It has been this way for a long time. This is why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. It started that way and it is going to end that way Remember:::

Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5, NIV) By ancient custom, the visitors were under Lot's protection. Lot was so infected by the wickedness of Sodom that he offered the homosexuals his two virgin daughters instead. Furious, the mob rushed up to break down the door.

Why on earth would men want another man instead of virgins????  This tells you how strong this urge is. And it will continue until the end.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Kinky4Agirl said:


> It is global because the world is burning in their loins for same sex relationships. It has been this way for a long time. This is why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. It started that way and it is going to end that way Remember:::
> 
> Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5, NIV) By ancient custom, the visitors were under Lot's protection. Lot was so infected by the wickedness of Sodom that he offered the homosexuals his two virgin daughters instead. Furious, the mob rushed up to break down the door.
> 
> Why on earth would men want another man instead of virgins????  This tells you how strong this urge is. And it will continue until the end.



So much truth!


----------



## Shimmie

Kinky4Agirl said:


> It is global because the world is burning in their loins for same sex relationships. It has been this way for a long time. This is why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. It started that way and it is going to end that way Remember:::
> 
> Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5, NIV) By ancient custom, the visitors were under Lot's protection. Lot was so infected by the wickedness of Sodom that he offered the homosexuals his two virgin daughters instead. Furious, the mob rushed up to break down the door.
> 
> Why on earth would men want another man instead of virgins????  This tells you how strong this urge is. And it will continue until the end.





Now see, you're speaking truth upon truth.  

Thank you so much.


----------



## Shimmie

Kinky4Agirl said:


> I lovingly disagree...
> 
> Is it discrimination when a girl wants to be the kicker for the NFL? When a boy wants to be a girlscout? When a girl wants to play professional baseball or when a boy wants to be miss America? No? Same sentiment for the church.
> 
> *IF a church does not indulge in certain practices, refusal of these practices to individuals is not discrimination. *



Keep preaching, cause I'm listening.... ..

I'll add this:   "Is it discrimination when a man is denied becoming pregnant or if a woman was to inseminate another woman?"  

It's not going to happen. 

What happening is that the gay agenda wants to silence the Church from speaking the truth.   Their tactics and strategy are actually based on false accusations.  No one is discriminating against them, especially to the 10th degree that is being presented as their case against 'us' (the Church) and others who disagree with gay marriage/the lifestyle, period.


----------



## Shimmie

momi said:


> Your explanation is much more clear than mine... yes I will be copying and pasting.
> 
> Shimmie - thank you for sharing Sis. Rosaria's story...it was beautiful.



Thank you momi...

Sister Rosaria was honest and she spoke every thought and comment that has been spoken against the Church that gays and supporters speak now, and yet she still surrendered her heart totally to Jesus.   

I loved when she said that calling herself gay was instead, 'mistaken identity'.  That's exactly what homosexuality is... 'mistaken identity'.


----------



## momi

Kinky4Agirl said:


> *It is global because the world is burning in their loins for same sex relationships. It* has been this way for a long time. This is why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. It started that way and it is going to end that way Remember:::
> 
> Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5, NIV) By ancient custom, the visitors were under Lot's protection. Lot was so infected by the wickedness of Sodom that he offered the homosexuals his two virgin daughters instead. Furious, the mob rushed up to break down the door.
> 
> *Why on earth would men want another man instead of virgins????  This tells you how strong this urge is. And it will continue until the end.*



The bolded. Wow.


----------



## Shimmie

momi said:


> The bolded. Wow.



I agree momi....

Wow!

Talk about the Truth being posted... what awesome words of truth our sister is posting; and she's speaking from a heart of love.  No hatred or bigotry lives in her heart.  She's only posting the truth... vibrant truth, in love.  

It's an invasive spirit that has captured the souls of those with same sex attractions.  And so many of these souls were/are innocent victims who have been molested as children and have become sexually confused.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> The US Conference of Catholic Bishops filed amicus briefs in support of DOMA and Prop 8: http://www.usccb.org/news/2013/13-030.cfm





Belle Du Jour said:


> National Organization for Marriage: http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/c.omL2KeN0LzH/b.3479573/k.E2D0/About_NOM.htm



Here's another great organization.  Mass Resistance.  They are in Massachusetts and the information that they share is very extensive.  I've been a subscriber to them and the others you listed above for quite some time.    They keep you up to date with valuable information.

http://www.massresistance.org/

I ask God to continue to bless and prosper them as they forge ahead in protecting pure Marriage (between one man and one woman) preserving families and children.

Here's a Facebook page for the Coalition of African American Pastors.  They've posted a question regarding the SCOTUS.   I've been on their mailing list for a while and it's always informative.

It's interesting:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Coalition-of-African-American-Pastors/211149519011631


----------



## Shimmie

I read this from a post and wanted to share it...

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail,  Dr. King writes, 

_“A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law…

An unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law."_

Reading this, grieves me regarding the Black men and women who claim to honour justice, yet they ignore these words of truth.  

Redefining the true meaning of Marriage is an 'unjust law'.  The catlyst behind foricing the change is 'unnatural', immoral.  It is not justifiable.

  :Rose:   :Rose:   :Rose:


----------



## Shimmie

This is a reality that I cannot ignore:

Black leaders who support gay marriage are so disturbing; it proves to me even more that Black leaders do not have the Black Community nor their Heritage and progress at heart.

I'm only telling the truth.   Black leaders have made the gay rights agenda their primary focus and battle and have forsaken and abandoned the still hurting fractures of the Black family and the Black community.  

Besides hurting the heart of God by further degrading Marriage, it is further degrading the Black community.   

Is it not bad enough that for years, the Black community has suffered in broken family structures, "Daddy Babies'.... Baby Mama's; out of wedlock births with innocent children growing up in homes without the strength / normal balance of a mother and a father?   Is this not grieving?    

Redefining the true meaning of Marriage between One Man / One Woman, is further damage, a greater divide, a greater danger to the children who will see less of a real family structure.  

Children live what they learn.   Children have grown up seeing and being groomed to produce more homes / children without a married mother and father raising them.  

gay unions, only further separates / alienates and weakens the Black community from progressing/ prospering into strong family unions.  Two moms/Two dads are not a family structure of Black honour or power.   It's a sliding board slanted backwards away from progress for the Black community to rise above those who have oppressed their legacy of greatness. 

So why are Black leaders in the limelight not 'seeing' this?  Why are they not empowering Black families?   Why are Black populated schools / neighborhoods still lacking in structure?  Why are more and more Black men still filling up the jails and  being raped as ragdolls?   They simply do not care.    If they did, they'd be fighting harder to save Black families and the Heritage which has more rights than gay rights ever will.  

Blacks in leadership say nothing about Black rights any longer; it's all about 'gay rights'.  The NAACP has literally abandoned the purpose of it's inception.   

Fools, such fools they are.   Don't they see that they are empowering an agenda which cares nothing about them and that the very laws they are 'projecting' will be the very laws used to abuse and put them under.   The ways of the laws will be,_ hire gays over all other minorities_, and who will be the first to go?   Blacks!  Why?  The Black leaders who betrayed their very own legacy and are being followed by Blacks who idolized them.    

Unlike the Benedict Arnolds of Black leaders... I'm protecting my rights and those of my loved ones.   I'm holding fast to the laws of God, obedience and as God has promised, those who yield unto Him shall be protected and shall prosper. 

*Psalm 1 *

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

:Rose:   :Rose:   :Rose:

*John 15:7 *

_If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you._

:Rose:   :Rose:   :Rose:

Black leaders are no longer 'abiding' in God's Word...


----------



## Shimmie

Here is a 'Brief' from the SSRN  "Social Social Research Network"

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2210568

If you are able, please download the entire 54 page Paper.  It's an excellent read to the Supreme Court of the United States, defending Marriage between One Man, One Woman.


----------



## moniq

[USER][/USER]Shimmie You are so right.  Dh and I talked about this the other day, all the NAACP talks about is gay marriage.  I never hear them talking about the young kids being killed in Chicago and other places on nearly a daily basis.  It is sad and disturbing.


----------



## Shimmie

moniq said:


> [USER][/USER]Shimmie You are so right.  Dh and I talked about this the other day, all the NAACP talks about is gay marriage.
> 
> *I never hear them talking about the young kids being killed in Chicago and other places on nearly a daily basis.  It is sad and disturbing*.



Sad...


----------



## Kinky4Agirl

Shimmie said:


> I agree @momi....
> 
> Wow!
> 
> Talk about the Truth being posted... what awesome words of truth our sister is posting; and she's speaking from a heart of love. No hatred or bigotry lives in her heart. She's only posting the truth... vibrant truth, in love.
> 
> It's an invasive spirit that has captured the souls of those with same sex attractions. And so many of these souls were/are innocent victims who *have been molested as children and have become sexually confused. *




Shimmie, The truth shall set you free. You are spot on girlfriend. I gringe when gay and lesbians say they were born that way. It saddens me because it makes me feel that they were tramautized at such as early age that they don't even remember. They may not remember but their spirit does. Thus, creating a sexually confused individual like you said. God would never create an abomination. So I know without a doubt that no one is born gay. I pray for them as I also pray for myself. I can speak on this because I too was abused as a child and sometimes feel that abomination trying to seep in. But I resist. The devil is working ladies. The end times are near and he is working overtime to get as many of us as he can. If there is anyone reading this that can relate to what I am saying... please resist. The fight is almost over.. God will see you through.. 

All this coming from someone that has a post of dispair right now on lhcf. God sure is awesome. You all pray for me as I pray for you and salvation.


----------



## LucieLoo12

If our church leaders would stand up and preach the truth it wouldn't be so much confusion going on. But it confuses the world when they see gay marriage condoned in the church. So many people are scared to say "Homosexuality is wrong" because they are afraid to "offend" people...well God is offended everyday when we don't speak against it. I expect the people in the world to go with this, but the church is what makes me upset when they don't stand against it. When you hear "Christians" say it's ok , that is what breaks my heart. It's not the President's job or any political organization job nor responsibilty to teach the people about the standards and laws of God, but it's the churches job.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

LucieLoo12 said:


> It's not the President's job or any political organization job nor responsibilty to teach the people about the standards and laws of God, but it's the churches job.



This right here. Most of political activists are not men of God and have no spiritual authority to fight the sodomite agenda. You can't be a man of God and be in covenant with the devil. They are powerless to fight this. It must start with the church telling the truth despite the consequences. That's what we need now more than ever. This is spiritual, and until these political leaders are full of the Holy Ghost they can only make things worse.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Maybe I'm crazy, but I can't use the words "gay" and "same sex"... Its a play on words and its meant to cover up what it is and make it more palatable. I just call it what it is, which is an abomination to God. That was just a random thought.

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


----------



## Kinky4Agirl

MrsHaseeb said:


> This right here. Most of political activists are not men of God and have no spiritual authority to fight the sodomite agenda. You can't be a man of God and be in covenant with the devil. They are powerless to fight this. *It must start with the church telling the truth despite the consequences.* That's what we need now more than ever. This is spiritual, and until these political leaders are full of the Holy Ghost they can only make things worse.


 
Ya'll are sho preachin today. I tell you, this gives new meaning to the scripture... Matthew 16, 24-26.

*24*Then said Jesus to his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. *25*For whoever will save his life shall lose it: and whoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. *26*For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul.

So you see.. how can the church come out and fight for what's right when they have so much of the world to lose in return? Are they thinking about their soul? Or are they thinking about their pockets, prestige, image, pride, politics? If man denies himself all these things and follows the truth they( the church) would lose their life as they know it today. No more limelight or riches. Yet they would find everlasting life through Christ Jesus. But they (people in the church) are not willing to fight for what's right. Instead they would rather keep their mouths shut and keep their worldly goods and prestige. I believe the church knows it's wrong.. but they'd rather be scorned by God than by man. And that's a sad thing my friends. The devil is surely working.


----------



## Kinky4Agirl

MrsHaseeb said:


> Maybe I'm crazy, but I can't use the words "gay" and "same sex"... Its a play on words and its meant to cover up what it is and make it more palatable. I just call it what it is, which is an abomination to God. That was just a random thought.
> 
> Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


 
Amen Sistah!!!!


----------



## Shimmie

LucieLoo12 said:


> If our church leaders would stand up and preach the truth it wouldn't be so much confusion going on. But it confuses the world when they see gay marriage condoned in the church.
> 
> So many people are scared to say "Homosexuality is wrong" because they are afraid to "offend" people...well God is offended everyday when we don't speak against it. I expect the people in the world to go with this, but the church is what makes me upset when they don't stand against it.
> 
> When you hear "Christians" say it's ok , that is what breaks my heart. It's not the President's job or any political organization job nor responsibilty to teach the people about the standards and laws of God, but it's the churches job.



You are so right in this  

Here's something to consider:    Those in the Church who are indeed speaking the Truth, and boldly without compromise to God's Word are being 'shut down' and blamed as 'haters'.      

Look at us here who speak the Truth and nothing but the Truth and in love... YET it gets labeled as 'hatred', anti-human, etc.    Ministries and Family organizations, such as NOM, CAAP (Coalition of African American Pastors), Focus on the Family, CBN, ACJLA, Chic Fila, Marriage Works, Maryland Marriage Alliance, Catholic Organizations, Mass Resistance, and so many, MANY more, who have voiced protection for the Family, Children and the true meaning of Marriage (One Man, One Woman), are immediately being bashed, attacked, miscontrued as haters rather than those who tell the truth and are seeking only to bring peace with that Truth.

The devil has made sure to 'twist' and tangle the Truth so much as an attempt to 'silence' the Truth.    The Church, those who are real, are indeed speaking up and working with great fevor to speak out and are not backing down.


----------



## Shimmie

Kinky4Agirl said:


> [/B]
> 
> Shimmie, The truth shall set you free. You are spot on girlfriend. I gringe when gay and lesbians say they were born that way. It saddens me because it makes me feel that they were tramautized at such as early age that they don't even remember. They may not remember but their spirit does. Thus, creating a sexually confused individual like you said. God would never create an abomination. So I know without a doubt that no one is born gay. I pray for them as I also pray for myself. I can speak on this because I too was abused as a child and sometimes feel that abomination trying to seep in. But I resist. The devil is working ladies. The end times are near and he is working overtime to get as many of us as he can. If there is anyone reading this that can relate to what I am saying... please resist. The fight is almost over.. God will see you through..
> 
> All this coming from someone that has a post of dispair right now on lhcf. God sure is awesome. You all pray for me as I pray for you and salvation.



Kinky4Agirl ...   thank you for your Ministry and it's 'No Nonsense'.   You're like Deborah and Ruth, dedicated, faithful and loving.  

I surely will continue to pray for and with you.


----------



## beingofserenity

Ultimately, God is love. God loves us all, including those who are queer. So, any feeling or expression of hate is not of God. And the fervor that people feel to mobilize and traumatized those who have a preference for the same sex is not of God, either. Nevertheless, everyone is free to believe what they believe. But I just don't get why people get so worked up about gay people being allowed to legally marry, of all the issues to spend your time on, this is it?


----------



## Kinky4Agirl

beingofserenity said:


> Ultimately, God is love. God loves us all, including those who are queer. So, any feeling or expression of hate is not of God. And the fervor that people feel to mobilize and traumatized those who have a preference for the same sex is not of God, either. Nevertheless, everyone is free to believe what they believe. But I just don't get why people get so worked up about gay people being allowed to legally marry, *of all the issues to spend your time on, this is it?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> To the bolded:  I feel that there is so much furor over this with Christians because this is on thing that we feel can get a person damned to hell for an eternity. So it is a big deal...


----------



## FrazzledFraggle

beingofserenity said:


> Ultimately, God is love. God loves us all, including those who are queer. So, any feeling or expression of hate is not of God. And the fervor that people feel to mobilize and traumatized those who have a preference for the same sex is not of God, either. Nevertheless, everyone is free to believe what they believe. But I just don't get why people get so worked up about gay people being allowed to legally marry, of all the issues to spend your time on, this is it?



God is love. God hates sin. I can go into all kinds of scripture that backs up God's hostility, disgust, and utter dislike for sin. We are not in a "safe zone" and permitted to do whatever we like just because God loves us. Christians struggle with sin but to give in to sin and then live perpetually in the state of sin without any remorse or conviction by the Holy Spirit is not conducive to being saved.

However, more to your point...I sometimes believe in a cause but do not think that tactics, methods, ways and attitudes of some organizations and churches are Christian. What I mean is that I don’t think strong-arm tactics or belligerence or violence is in any way a method to bring people to know the Lord Jesus Christ. 

However, to ask a Christian not to speak out against sin and proclaim Jesus is the opposite of what we are commissioned to do. The bible describes this as the Great Commission - they were instructions by our resurrected Lord to his disciples that they spread his teachings to all the nations of the world. It is now a mainstay of Christian theology- ministry, missionary work, evangelism, and baptism. Basically, if Christians just sat down and shut up like society wants us to do, we would not be doing what our Lord told us to do. (Matthew 28:16-20)

My belief is that God's love and grace has been the reason that this nation has not plummeted even further into chaos and violence and sexual deviancy than it already has. I truly believe God's hand is holding back the full consequences of our sin as a nation. The Lord loves us so much that he tarries in his return...He desires that none should perish, but all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3:9. That is the real symbol of His love...not that He allows us to do whatever we like to our own detriment. 

Regarding whether it is permissible to keep sinning intentionally just because we can:



> Romans 6
> New King James Version (NKJV)
> Dead to Sin, Alive to God
> 
> 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
> 
> 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
> 
> 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
> 
> From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
> 
> 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
> 
> 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.



There are truly Christians who are worried about the souls of others and the future of our nation and that's why they speak out against sin. There are others who are short sighted and seek to condemn and be abusive in the way they handle their beliefs. I do not agree with such tactics.


----------



## FrazzledFraggle

Kinky4Agirl said:


> [/B]
> 
> Shimmie, The truth shall set you free. You are spot on girlfriend. *I gringe when gay and lesbians say they were born that way. It saddens me because it makes me feel that they were tramautized at such as early age that they don't even remember. They may not remember but their spirit does. Thus, creating a sexually confused individual like you said. God would never create an abomination. So I know without a doubt that no one is born gay.* I pray for them as I also pray for myself. I can speak on this because I too was abused as a child and sometimes feel that abomination trying to seep in. But I resist. The devil is working ladies. The end times are near and he is working overtime to get as many of us as he can. If there is anyone reading this that can relate to what I am saying... please resist. The fight is almost over.. God will see you through..
> 
> All this coming from someone that has a post of dispair right now on lhcf. God sure is awesome. You all pray for me as I pray for you and salvation.



Kinky4Agirl

I believe that sexual sin committed by adults on a child is a big reason contributor towards sexual deviancy in adulthood. Every "gay" person I've ever known personally has admitted that they have been sexually abused in some way except one.

I used to be adamant that no one could be born this way but I think God is showing me differently now.

I had a discussion with such a person who claims to be a lesbian but she has no recollection of being molested or sexually abused. She could have some oppressed memory I suppose but she says nothing like that has happened to her and she truly believes she was born that way.

Well, at first I scoffed at the notion that a person could be born that way. I said, like you, that God would NEVER create such an abomination. But, actually even if it could be proven that some people were born gay, that would not be contrary to scripture.

Did I lose you yet? 

Consider this.

What is homosexuality? It is an abomination in the eyes of God...it is sin.

What does the Bible say about sin's first appearance in our lives?

Consider this?

We are made in the image of God. We are also made in the image of Adam...who has passed his traits and sin on to us from the fall. When Adam fell into sin, the result was every one of his descendants being born with a sinful nature. David lamented this fact in one of his Psalms: “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). 

David inherited sin from his parents, just as we all do. We all struggle with different types of sin. Different circumstances tempt us to sin. Different issues bring out our sinful nature.

Well if this is the case, why is it so difficult to believe that sin-seed - homosexuality - cannot be evident at birth?

Let's break it down a bit:

Notice the progression in Romans 5:12: 

1. sin entered the world through Adam
2. death follows sin
3. death comes to all people
4. all people sin because they inherit sin from Adam.

That's the point though...“all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). That's the entire reason we (and they...the homosexuals) need a perfect, sinless sacrifice to wash away our sin, something we are powerless to do on our own.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

letskeepntouch said:


> God is love. God hates sin. I can go into all kinds of scripture that backs up God's hostility, disgust, and utter dislike for sin. We are not in a "safe zone" and permitted to do whatever we like just because God loves us. Christians struggle with sin but to give in to sin and then live perpetually in the state of sin without any remorse or conviction by the Holy Spirit is not conducive to being saved.
> 
> However, more to your point...I sometimes believe in a cause but do not think that tactics, methods, ways and attitudes of some organizations and churches are Christian. What I mean is that I don’t think strong-arm tactics or belligerence or violence is in any way a method to bring people to know the Lord Jesus Christ.
> 
> However, to ask a Christian not to speak out against sin and proclaim Jesus is the opposite of what we are commissioned to do. The bible describes this as the Great Commission - they were instructions by our resurrected Lord to his disciples that they spread his teachings to all the nations of the world. It is now a mainstay of Christian theology- ministry, missionary work, evangelism, and baptism. Basically, if Christians just sat down and shut up like society wants us to do, we would not be doing what our Lord told us to do. (Matthew 28:16-20)
> 
> My belief is that God's love and grace has been the reason that this nation has not plummeted even further into chaos and violence and sexual deviancy than it already has. I truly believe God's hand is holding back the full consequences of our sin as a nation. The Lord loves us so much that he tarries in his return...He desires that none should perish, but all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3:9. That is the real symbol of His love...not that He allows us to do whatever we like to our own detriment.
> 
> Regarding whether it is permissible to keep sinning intentionally just because we can:
> 
> There are truly Christians who are worried about the souls of others and the future of our nation and that's why they speak out against sin. There are others who are short sighted and seek to condemn and be abusive in the way they handle their beliefs. I do not agree with such tactics.



This entire post was expressed beautifully. Thanks was not enough.

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


----------



## JaneBond007

There is a CNN contributor the other day who added to this discussion.  Basically, marriage is a secular institution these days and is in stark contrast to the religious institution of religious marriage.  Pope Francis was brought up into the discussion on whether or not he would promote a change in our catholic viewpoint of such.  For us, it's impossible to consider marriage between same-sex because marriage, as a sacrament, has to remain open to natural procreation as an expression of love.

I believe the point about marriage as secular now gives another perspective.  And maybe, our society should have been equally concerned with protecting the religious institution of marriage decades ago by not providing court marriages.  I do not believe the assault of traditional marriage is anything new.  It's been in the runnings for many years now and many attacks are coming to larger fruition.  This issue would not have been if we didn't secularize it in the first place.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

letskeepntouch said:


> Kinky4Agirl
> 
> I believe that sexual sin committed by adults on a child is a big reason contributor towards sexual deviancy in adulthood. Every "gay" person I've ever known personally has admitted that they have been sexually abused in some way except one.
> 
> I used to be adamant that no one could be born this way but I think God is showing me differently now.
> 
> I had a discussion with such a person who claims to be a lesbian but she has no recollection of being molested or sexually abused. She could have some oppressed memory I suppose but she says nothing like that has happened to her and she truly believes she was born that way.
> 
> Well, at first I scoffed at the notion that a person could be born that way. I said, like you, that God would NEVER create such an abomination. But, actually even if it could be proven that some people were born gay, that would not be contrary to scripture.
> 
> Did I lose you yet?
> 
> Consider this.
> 
> What is homosexuality? It is an abomination in the eyes of God...it is sin.
> 
> What does the Bible say about sin's first appearance in our lives?
> 
> Consider this?
> 
> We are made in the image of God. We are also made in the image of Adam...who has passed his traits and sin on to us from the fall. When Adam fell into sin, the result was every one of his descendants being born with a sinful nature. David lamented this fact in one of his Psalms: “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5).
> 
> David inherited sin from his parents, just as we all do. We all struggle with different types of sin. Different circumstances tempt us to sin. Different issues bring out our sinful nature.
> 
> Well if this is the case, why is it so difficult to believe that sin-seed - homosexuality - cannot be evident at birth?
> 
> Let's break it down a bit:
> 
> Notice the progression in Romans 5:12:
> 
> 1. sin entered the world through Adam
> 2. death follows sin
> 3. death comes to all people
> 4. all people sin because they inherit sin from Adam.
> 
> That's the point though...“all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). That's the entire reason we (and they...the homosexuals) need a perfect, sinless sacrifice to wash away our sin, something we are powerless to do on our own.



I used to also believe people could not be born homosexual but the Word says in Ephesians 2 that we are by nature children of wrath. Our very nature is one that is against God until we are born again and have God's seed in us, the Holy Ghost. There can be generational familiar spirits of homosexuality that absolutely can cause a child to be born that way I've come to realize. And some children were exposed to this spirit so young that they never remember it and think they were born that way. Either way, Its futile to even discuss whether someone was born that way since the Lord Jesus Christ said we must be born again. 

Most people believe that homosexuals can not be delivered but they can. According to 1 Corinthians 6, there had been homosexual men in the Corinthian church. But they were saved and sanctified by the Lord Jesus. God seems to always speak to me early in the mornings and I find myself praying in my sleep sometimes and one morning recently I woke up praying for what I God revealed to me was a homosexual man. I have no clue who he was. I remember praying for God to regenerate this person, to cause his nature and his chemical and bodily functions and desires to be transformed, washed and made new, the way God intended, by the blood of Jesus. I believe people have simply lost touch with how to pray and get these people delivered. I would have never known to pray such words but that one incident revealed to me just how that spirit deeply embeds itself into every fiber of a person. This spirit is a strong one indeed and is dangerous to society as a whole. It alone will bring utter destruction from the hand of God.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

beingofserenity said:


> Ultimately, God is love. God loves us all, including those who are queer. So, any feeling or expression of hate is not of God. And the fervor that people feel to mobilize and traumatized those who have a preference for the same sex is not of God, either. Nevertheless, everyone is free to believe what they believe. But I just don't get why people get so worked up about gay people being allowed to legally marry, of all the issues to spend your time on, this is it?



beingofserenity, instead of typing a long response, I will let the Word of God speak because His word is final and better than anything I could ever come up with:

There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. (Prov 14:12)

IF you love Me, you will keep My commandments. (John 14:15)

And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them MALE AND FEMALE..." (Matt 19:4)

Now, you have read snippets of what God has to say about marriage, keeping His commandments and the foolishness of man and his thoughts.  What is your counter-argument?


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Kinky4Agirl said:


> To the bolded:  I feel that there is so much furor over this with Christians because this is on thing that we feel can get a person damned to hell for an eternity. So it is a big deal...



Saving souls is not a game.  I woke up to that reality that people are dying and "falling into hell like snowflakes" as one saint said after seeing a vision.  The devil is on fire (no pun intended) in this age because not only is he convincing people to live for today, he is convincing them that since "God loves them" He will just turn a blind eye to their shenanigans.  People are deceiving themselves.


----------



## Galadriel

beingofserenity said:


> Ultimately, God is love. God loves us all, including those who are queer. So, any feeling or expression of hate is not of God. And the fervor that people feel to mobilize and traumatized those who have a preference for the same sex is not of God, either. Nevertheless, everyone is free to believe what they believe. But I just don't get why people get so worked up about gay people being allowed to legally marry, of all the issues to spend your time on, this is it?



The purpose of life is to love God and to enjoy a happy eternity with Him in Heaven. God is love, yes, but God is also holy and just.

Sin separates us from God, and homosexual acts are sinful, and to raise sodomy to the level of marriage is nothing less than profane. This is not hate. It is truth.

You ask why people are getting worked up about gay marriage, but it is *they* who are worked up and trying to convince the rest of the world that their relationships are just like a marriage between a man and woman. They are trying to introduce this into schools with our children, into legislation (which affects us all), and they sue or harass people who believe in marriage.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Galadriel said:


> The purpose of life is to love God and to enjoy a happy eternity with Him in Heaven. God is love, yes, but God is also holy and just.
> 
> Sin separates us from God, and homosexual acts are sinful, and to raise sodomy to the level of marriage is nothing less than profane. This is not hate. It is truth.
> 
> You ask why people are getting worked up about gay marriage, but it is *they* who are worked up and trying to convince the rest of the world that their relationships are just like a marriage between a man and woman. They are trying to introduce this into schools with our children, into legislation (which affects us all), and they sue or harass people who believe in marriage.



Yes and Amen to all of this.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

After reading a conversation on FB, I want to shout that just because a person believes in traditional marriage does not make them a bigot and speaking out against a homosexual lifestyle is not "hate speech."  I'm seeing that foolishness a lot but I'm not getting into e-fights today


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Belle Du Jour said:


> After reading a conversation on FB, I want to shout that just because a person believes in traditional marriage does not make them a bigot and speaking out against a homosexual lifestyle is not "hate speech."  I'm seeing that foolishness a lot but I'm not getting into e-fights today



That's how they plan to make the Christians shut up about the sin of sodomy, by calling it a hate speech. We're going to start hearing that term more and more...


----------



## Belle Du Jour

MrsHaseeb said:


> That's how they plan to make the Christians shut up about the sin of sodomy, by calling it a hate speech. We're going to start hearing that term more and more...



Yes!  I've noticed it more and more.  "Hate speech."   To me, hate speech is using the F word or saying "kill the gays!"  Obviously, no true Christian believes those things.  And I think gay people know that, they just choose to ignore the difference.  

Well, on Tuesday, I will be posting something about the March for Marriage.  I'm sure it will sever some friendships but I've been preparing for that for a while now.


----------



## Brwnbeauti

If the homosexual people aren't Chrisitan, do y'all still have a problem with them marrying? Is it just the Christian marriage of homosexuals that y'all don't agree with? I know marriage isn't exclusively a Christian thing. I'm just curious. These have been very interesting post. Shimmie that story was beautiful. Do you think it would be more helpful if all Christians adopted this approach? 
My understanding of the Bible is that homosexuality is a sin, but there are also a lot of other sins that people commit daily that have more profound effects on civilization as a whole IMO. It bothers me that no one will speak on these things but no one hesitates on the gay discussion. I am not speaking of y'all because I don't know y'all well enough to say this about y'all. Do y'all think it is because being gay is the only sin these people aren't committing?

Sent from my iPad using LHCF


----------



## Shimmie

CafedeBelleza said:


> If the homosexual people aren't Chrisitan, do y'all still have a problem with them marrying? Is it just the Christian marriage of homosexuals that y'all don't agree with? I know marriage isn't exclusively a Christian thing. I'm just curious. These have been very interesting post. Shimmie that story was beautiful. Do you think it would be more helpful if all Christians adopted this approach?
> 
> My understanding of the Bible is that homosexuality is a sin, but there are also a lot of other sins that people commit daily that have more profound effects on civilization as a whole IMO. It bothers me that no one will speak on these things but no one hesitates on the gay discussion. I am not speaking of y'all because I don't know y'all well enough to say this about y'all. Do y'all think it is because being gay is the only sin these people aren't committing?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using LHCF



  Hi CafedeBelleza...

I'll try and answer your questions:  

The 'other' sins you speak of are not being legalized as non-sins, however, gay marriage is.  No one is seeking the Supreme Court to defend/legalize, adultery, lying, stealing, murder, corruption, tax evasion and so on down the list of 'other' sins.   That's a huge difference.   

gay marriage is non-repentance of sin and the gay agenda and supporting politicians are saying, let the sin continue.   

There are no healthy nor productive advantages for society and communities with gay marriage. 

Example:

Look at the Black community.   What is the biggest missing element among Black communities?   

The lack of family structure.  Outstanding numbers of children being conceived outside of marriage and children growing up without the benefit and safety of living in a home with his/her mother and father, married as one.

Unstructured families have only increased in out of wedlock children being born to mothers who have children with other fathers to their other children.   in other words, an epidemic of Baby mama/Baby daddy scatters and no structure. 

More crime, more incarcerations, more drug abuse, more school dropouts, more sexually transmitted diseases and the cases are involving school age children at younger and youger ages. 

gay marriage will only widen the gay 'standard' and development in an already weaken community where children will grow up seeing less of a structured home between married parents, their mother and father.

gay marriage will only weaken the sexual stabiity and true meaning of sex among society and developing the minds of innocent children into confusion of gender roles and responsibilities. 

the gay agenda is out to 'silence' the truth of God's Word, which is clear that homosexuality is wrong and can never be righted.  Not ever.

gay marriage is an open portal for an epidemic to child molestation.  It will give child molesters leverage to convince an innocent child that fondling and having sex with them is okay.  

gay marriage is an open portal for an epidemic of increases in HIV/AIDS between men having sex with men, as young boys reaching puberty who become sexually curious, will feel free to experiment with gay sex to relieve their sexual tension.     Already the CDC (Center for Disease Control) has reports of massive increases of HIV/AIDS among young men in epid proportions who are involved with homosexual experimentation; much of which is passed onto young females in epic proportions.   

gay marriage demeans the true meaning of family and marriage which is ordained as One Man, One Woman and it disregards the harm and consequences to the younger generations.  

Already, gay activists are in schools teaching young (5 year olds) that homosexuality is okay to be that way and have these young children questioning their parents if they are gay.   

gay activists have taken the rights of parents away who chose not to have their children taught this.  These parents are not allowed to be pre-advised nor or they allowed to opt their children from these teachings.  

It's actually communism where a gay activist 'plant' is placed strategically in every area of society force planting their agenda into the lives of those who are innocent and have no defense from their strategy.  

However, I have a Word of Prophesy... a sure word.

Job 5:   They will not be able to perform their enterprise.   

Their strategy will not prevail over the power of God and those who honour Him.


----------



## Galadriel

CafedeBelleza said:


> If the homosexual people aren't Chrisitan, do y'all still have a problem with them marrying? Is it just the Christian marriage of homosexuals that y'all don't agree with? I know marriage isn't exclusively a Christian thing. I'm just curious. These have been very interesting post. @Shimmie that story was beautiful. Do you think it would be more helpful if all Christians adopted this approach?



Marriage is an institution that is inherently heterosexual. It unites a man and woman so that they may procreate and build a family--Father, Mother, Child. The family is the basic unit of society. Not only does it serve an important role on the social level, but it is also properly ordered to the Natural Law and of God's plan and will.



CafedeBelleza said:


> My understanding of the Bible is that homosexuality is a sin, but there are also a lot of other sins that people commit daily that have more profound effects on civilization as a whole IMO.



I don't think the sinfulness and disorder that accompanies sodomy (and the attempt to make it legal marriage) is lessened because one may feel that "It's not as bad as X or Y." Wrong is still wrong.



CafedeBelleza said:


> It bothers me that no one will speak on these things but no one hesitates on the gay discussion. I am not speaking of y'all because I don't know y'all well enough to say this about y'all. Do y'all think it is because being gay is the only sin these people aren't committing?



There are many moral issues that Christianity teaches and speaks on, but we especially oppose moral wrongs which undermine the foundations of society (the family), and those wrongs which are being enshrined into law and pushed upon our society and children as "good."

Adultery is morally wrong, but the last time I checked, people weren't trying to get people who believe adultery is wrong listed as a "hate group" with the government, suing them for "discrimination", or trying to teach our kids about the historical contribution of adulterers in textbooks.


----------



## Brwnbeauti

Shimmie said:


> Hi CafedeBelleza...
> 
> I'll try and answer your questions:
> 
> The 'other' sins you speak of are not being legalized as non-sins, however, gay marriage is.  No one is seeking the Supreme Court to defend/legalize, adultery, lying, stealing, murder, corruption, tax evasion and so on down the list of 'other' sins.   That's a huge difference.
> 
> gay marriage is non-repentance of sin and the gay agenda and supporting politicians are saying, let the sin continue.
> 
> There are no healthy nor productive advantages for society and communities with gay marriage.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Look at the Black community.   What is the biggest missing element among Black communities?
> 
> The lack of family structure.  Outstanding numbers of children being conceived outside of marriage and children growing up without the benefit and safety of living in a home with his/her mother and father, married as one.
> 
> Unstructured families have only increased in out of wedlock children being born to mothers who have children with other fathers to their other children.   in other words, an epidemic of Baby mama/Baby daddy scatters and no structure.
> 
> More crime, more incarcerations, more drug abuse, more school dropouts, more sexually transmitted diseases and the cases are involving school age children at younger and youger ages.
> 
> gay marriage will only widen the gay 'standard' and development in an already weaken community where children will grow up seeing less of a structured home between married parents, their mother and father.
> 
> gay marriage will only weaken the sexual stabiity and true meaning of sex among society and developing the minds of innocent children into confusion of gender roles and responsibilities.
> 
> the gay agenda is out to 'silence' the truth of God's Word, which is clear that homosexuality is wrong and can never be righted.  Not ever.
> 
> gay marriage is an open portal for an epidemic to child molestation.  It will give child molesters leverage to convince an innocent child that fondling and having sex with them is okay.
> 
> gay marriage is an open portal for an epidemic of increases in HIV/AIDS between men having sex with men, as young boys reaching puberty who become sexually curious, will feel free to experiment with gay sex to relieve their sexual tension.     Already the CDC (Center for Disease Control) has reports of massive increases of HIV/AIDS among young men in epid proportions who are involved with homosexual experimentation; much of which is passed onto young females in epic proportions.
> 
> gay marriage demeans the true meaning of family and marriage which is ordained as One Man, One Woman and it disregards the harm and consequences to the younger generations.
> 
> Already, gay activists are in schools teaching young (5 year olds) that homosexuality is okay to be that way and have these young children questioning their parents if they are gay.
> 
> gay activists have taken the rights of parents away who chose not to have their children taught this.  These parents are not allowed to be pre-advised nor or they allowed to opt their children from these teachings.
> 
> It's actually communism where a gay activist 'plant' is placed strategically in every area of society force planting their agenda into the lives of those who are innocent and have no defense from their strategy.
> 
> However, I have a Word of Prophesy... a sure word.
> 
> Job 5:   They will not be able to perform their enterprise.
> 
> Their strategy will not prevail over the power of God and those who honour Him.


Post deleted


----------



## Belle Du Jour

1.4 million people marched in Paris FR yesterday protesting the legalization of SSM: http://www.nomblog.com/34076/


----------



## Belle Du Jour

We need some serious prayer tomorrow for the March for Marriage, which coincides with oral arguments before SCOTUS for Prop 8 and DOMA to be struck down.  Remember, prayer changes things.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

Belle Du Jour

you may want to post this again in the prayer thread...


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> 1.4 million people marched in Paris FR yesterday protesting the legalization of SSM: http://www.nomblog.com/34076/



  Vive La France 


Long Live France...

Praise God for them, taking a royal stand for Pure Marriage.


----------



## sweetvi

Today is the day?


----------



## JaneBond007

CNN...don't know the names of the contributors...Shroeder and another.  Well, a bigot is another thing and goes beyond just believing in traditional marriage.  And I WISH they would not bring up African Americans in this.  It it not the same thing.  Bandwagon jumping...create your own very platform, thank you very much!  If you can stand, then stand.  But don't jump on the boat that is already full.  Have your civil unions...but stop with all this talk about equating this with women and minorities.  Nothing burns my tuchis more!  It's not the same.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

I'll be back later but SCOTUS reportedly does not think this is a constitutional issue and that the states should decide. At least that's what i heard. Praying they realize they cannot redefine marriage!!!


----------



## Belle Du Jour

The media is so biased!  They would have you think no one showed up to support traditional marriage.  I beg to differ 
















http://www.flickr.com/photos/franciscanuniversity/8591865449/


----------



## Belle Du Jour

You will NOT see this in the media

Video from today:
http://www.nomblog.com/34136/


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Ladies, the march may be over but the battle is still raging.  Please continue to lift SCOTUS up in prayer as they deliberate over this decision.  We won't get a decision probably until June.  We cannot slumber on this issue.  Keep praying!


----------



## Shimmie

JaneBond007 said:


> CNN...don't know the names of the contributors...Shroeder and another.  Well, a bigot is another thing and goes beyond just believing in traditional marriage.
> 
> *And I WISH they would not bring up African Americans in this.  *
> It it not the same thing.
> 
> *Bandwagon jumping...create your own very platform, thank you very much!  If you can stand, then stand.  But don't jump on the boat that is already full. *
> 
> 
> Have your civil unions...but stop with all this talk about equating this with women and minorities.  Nothing burns my tuchis more!
> 
> *It's not the same*.



The devil has never been an originator    he is an imposter, he plagerizes, he steals, he lies, therefore he can never create his own platform; he can only 'steal' from another.  

God's Word is clear about him being a thief, who comes to kill, steal and to destroy.   he entire goal is to kill, steal and to destroy / defile marriage.  

Yet... he cannot prevail; for marriage is not his to redesign and it never will be his.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> I'll be back later but SCOTUS reportedly does not think this is a constitutional issue and that the states should decide. At least that's what i heard. Praying they realize they cannot redefine marriage!!!



This is true.  I'm sensing that they will not rule on this.  They can't.


----------



## Shimmie

sweetvi said:


> Today is the day?





Belle Du Jour said:


> The media is so biased!  They would have you think no one showed up to support traditional marriage.  I beg to differ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/franciscanuniversity/8591865449/





Belle Du Jour said:


> You will NOT see this in the media
> 
> Video from today:
> http://www.nomblog.com/34136/



Beautiful!  Praise God!


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Shimmie said:


> This is true.  I'm sensing that they will not rule on this.  They can't.



I had a good feeling about this today, but June is still far away. . .And it only takes one swing vote.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> You will NOT see this in the media
> 
> Video from today:
> http://www.nomblog.com/34136/



Lady Belle.... THANK YOU!

Remember up thread, when I shared that thousands of gays do not support gay marriage.    At 2:25 in the video, the gentleman, Doug Mainwaring (former SSM supporter), is sharing his support for Traditional Marriage, One Man, One Woman.    

God bless you Sir.  God bless you for standing for the truth in spite of the oppostion.   Father God, bless this man, bless him in Jesus' Name, Amen and Amen.        He's our Rahab and I mean this most respectfully, most respectfully indeed.   To those who know the role of Rahab and how she supported the children of God and God 'saved her' in the midst of the battle... this is how I see this gentleman, Mr. Doug Mainwaring and others like him.  

There are as many gays who support and stay with us than we realize.  God bless them and deliver them, indeed. 

Praise God!   God always confirms, what I share, always.    Praise God forever.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> I had a good feeling about this today, but June is still far away. . .And it only takes one swing vote.



That one 'swing' in our direction.   Their arms are not big or long enough to 'box' with God.  

God hears our prayers and the hearts within.   God has promised that if we ask anything in His Name and according to His Will, He will do it.

I love it.    Love it     Love it 

Praise God.   Pray unceasingly... for God hears the 'cry' of His children.  Always.


----------



## momi

JaneBond007 said:


> CNN...don't know the names of the contributors...Shroeder and another.  Well, a bigot is another thing and goes beyond just believing in traditional marriage.  And I WISH they would not bring up African Americans in this.  It it not the same thing.  Bandwagon jumping...create your own very platform, thank you very much!  If you can stand, then stand.  But don't jump on the boat that is already full.  Have your civil unions...but stop with all this talk about equating this with women and minorities.  Nothing burns my tuchis more!  It's not the same.



You have typed a mouthful!  

They can't make the case on their own merits so they hijack true civil rights.  Civil rights folks have fought, died, and bled for.


----------



## momi

Shimmie - I've been meaning to tell you that I had a chance to listen to an interview with Rosaria Butterfield.  She wept hearing her beautiful story of conversion... I have to say that it caused me to examine myself and make sure that while I am zealous about this issue (and will continue to be), there are also so many souls at stake that are lost in this lifestyle. 

https://generationswithvision.com/broadcast/lesbian-feminist-to-christian-homeschool-mom/


----------



## Shimmie

momi said:


> Shimmie - I've been meaning to tell you that I had a chance to listen to an interview with Rosaria Butterfield.  She wept hearing her beautiful story of conversion...
> 
> *I have to say that it caused me to examine myself and make sure that while I am zealous about this issue (and will continue to be), there are also so many souls at stake that are lost in this lifestyle. *
> 
> https://generationswithvision.com/broadcast/lesbian-feminist-to-christian-homeschool-mom/



momi, thanks so much about sharing this (the bolded).   This is why I emphasize 'gay agenda' and not gay individuals.   It's not a 'personal' attack upon any individual who is gay.   It's the 'agenda' and those who are enforcing it and the methods and lies that they are using, that take issue with.   Full issue without a stutter.

The gentleman that I mentioned up thread, Mr. Doug Mainwaring (who is gay and a former SSM supporter); this man has been on my heart so strong and others like him who stand with us.   I prayed for him because in spite of his support for traditional marriage, he still has to yet endure the harshness and the cruelty and the slanders and the firey darts that are tossed against him.    I praise God for this man's life and for his heart.   I cannot turn my back on him and others who share his sentiments that stand with us. 

Thank you again for sharing this momi.  I mean this from my heart.  Please pray for Mr. Mainwaring.   I call him 'Mr.' with all respect for surely he is indeed worthy of it.   Worthy indeed.


----------



## Shimmie

Supreme Court...

"Uncharted Waters"

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_new...sue-sweeping-ruling-on-same-sex-marriage?lite

Belle Du Jour  

God has confirmed what we shared up thread.  

--------------------

Notes from the article:  

This comment is striking: _ "When did that happen?" _ 

During the argument, Justice Antonin Scalia was the one justice who voiced the most skepticism about the argument that limiting marriage to heterosexual couples is a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause.

He said to Olson, “I'm curious, when did it become unconstitutional to exclude homosexual couples from marriage? 1791? 1868, when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted? Was it always unconstitutional?”

Olson replied that “when we as a culture determined that sexual orientation is a characteristic of individuals that they cannot control” then at that point limiting marriage became unconstitutional.

Scalia then asked, * “When did that happen?” *

Olson responded, “There's no specific date in time. This is an evolutionary cycle.”

At another point Chief Justice John Roberts asked Olson whether those seeking to strike down Proposition 8 were interested only in the label “marriage,” since the state of California already grants same-sex couples almost all the legal protections and rights provided to heterosexual married couples.

*“So it's just about the label in this case,” *Roberts said.

“The label "marriage" means something,” Olson answered.
-----------------
-----------------

Ai yi yi... yi yi   

The gay agenda never had a case.  A smoking gun with no bullets; and it's the gay agenda choking on their own smoke.   

I truly see this backfired upon them.  God only allows the devil to go but so far and the devil always loses; he has no truth nor ground to stand upon.  he is not honouring God.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

I am so disgusted by the number of people in my FB feed who chose to "come out" and support gay marriage.  Some of these people self-identify as Christian.  NO ONE in my feed stood up for traditional marriage.  I was the lone (probably seen as crazy) voice crying in the wilderness LOL.  The Book says that men will be given over to their own lustful desires and that's exactly what's happening.


----------



## beingofserenity

I'm PROUD of all the Christians who have come out in support of gay marriage.  God loves us all.


----------



## beingofserenity

Marriage is NOT a religious institution, particularly  a Christian institution. Christians DO NOT have a monopoly on determining what marriage is for everyone else.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

beingofserenity said:


> Marriage is NOT a religious institution, particularly  a Christian institution. Christians DO NOT have a monopoly on determining what marriage is for everyone else.



God absolutely loves homosexuals, that's why his Word says to repent, meaning turn from the sin. Love tells people something is wrong to save them in the end. Hate is telling someone something is ok (or supporting them) when our holy God calls it an abomination. God ordained marriage and it is sacred. It is supposed to be a picture of Christ and his church. He created male and female. To call same sex union "a marriage" is blasphemous. There is no other way. One thing I can assure you of is this: anyone coming out in support of homosexual marriage is not a Christian, they are a liar.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

beingofserenity said:


> I'm PROUD of all the Christians who have come out in support of gay marriage.  *God loves us all*.



Yes, God loves ALL mankind.

He is a God of love...BUT, He is also a God of justice!

The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob will NOT tolerate SIN...especially habitual sin.  Habitual sin is a pattern of disobedience to God. It requires the  knowledge that what you are doing is wrong, yet you continue to sin  despite knowing the consequences.

There isn't two different God's....one who says one thing and one who says something else.   Yahweh says what He means and means what He says!  We can't go around saying what He won't do because of sin, when He says what He will do because of it.  We don't have any control...He has all control...even if people don't think so because of what is going on in the world...but He does!  He is giving man a chance to repent because HE WANTS ALL MEN TO COME TO REPENTANCE AND NO ONE TO PERISH!


​


----------



## Galadriel

beingofserenity said:


> Marriage is NOT a religious institution, particularly  a Christian institution. Christians DO NOT have a monopoly on determining what marriage is for everyone else.



God determined what a marriage is--we're simply agreeing with Him .


----------



## Nice & Wavy

MrsHaseeb said:


> God absolutely loves homosexuals, that's why his Word says to repent, meaning turn from the sin. Love tells people something is wrong to save them in the end. Hate is telling someone something is ok (or supporting them) when our holy God calls it an abomination. God ordained marriage and it is sacred. It is supposed to be a picture of Christ and his church. He created male and female. To call same sex union "a marriage" is blasphemous. There is no other way. *One thing I can assure you of is this: anyone coming out in support of homosexual marriage is not a Christian, they are a liar.*


Yes, this right here


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Galadriel said:


> God determined what a marriage is--we're simply agreeing with Him .


  ...this!!!!


----------



## Galadriel

Nice & Wavy said:


> Yes, God loves ALL mankind.
> 
> He is a God of love...BUT, He is also a God of justice!
> 
> The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob will NOT tolerate SIN...especially habitual sin.  Habitual sin is a pattern of disobedience to God. It requires the  knowledge that what you are doing is wrong, yet you continue to sin  despite knowing the consequences.
> 
> There isn't two different God's....one who says one thing and one who says something else.   Yahweh says what He means and means what He says!  We can't go around saying what He won't do because of sin, when He says what He will do because of it.  We don't have any control...He has all control...even if people don't think so because of what is going on in the world...but He does!  He is giving man a chance to repent because HE WANTS ALL MEN TO COME TO REPENTANCE AND NO ONE TO PERISH!



They want a God without holiness, who tolerates sin and stays out of the way. "We don't want God telling us what to do or how to live!"

This is why Christ died on the Cross--to free us from sin and save us from Hell.

This is why Christ established the Church--so we can preach and witness to the Truth.

Their minds have been darkened by sin and attachment to sin, and they strive against God's plan, but it will be to no avail.


----------



## Live.Laugh.Love

Threads like this honestly make me wonder why the AA community is not more REPUBLICAN...the Republican Party aligns with most AA family values, they are not for gay marriage but the democrats are. There are a whole list of traditional values that the repub party holds but we as blacks completely block them out. 

FYI I am not a repub but I will be doing more research on all there policies and beliefs...


----------



## Nice & Wavy

beingofserenity said:


> Marriage is NOT a religious institution, particularly  a Christian institution. Christians DO NOT have a monopoly on determining what marriage is for everyone else.


Marriage IS the HIGHEST INSTITUTION ON EARTH!  The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob absolutely created marriage for HIS GLORY and because it's that important to Him, satan wants to distort it through the mind of man.

Man needs to understand that he can be easily manipulated like a puppet by the devil when he is WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST!  When you are truly in Christ, you have the MIND OF CHRIST and hold the thoughts, feelings and purposes of His heart and in His heart is NO SIN!

So, as Christians...we have been given by the CREATOR OF MARRIAGE a mandate to be with One man One woman and procreate round-about our tables for the purpose of giving Him the glory.

What God says is true and everything everyone else has to say that is contrary to what He has to say, is a lie.

ETA:
From Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
*in·sti·tu·tion 
*

_noun_ \ˌin(t)-stə-ˈtü-shən, -ˈtyü-\


*Definition of INSTITUTION*

1
*:* an act of instituting *:* establishment 

2
_a_ *:* a significant practice, relationship, or organization in a society or culture <the _institution_ of marriage>


----------



## Laela

!
--

--


Galadriel said:


> God determined what a marriage is--we're simply agreeing with Him .


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Galadriel said:


> They want a God without holiness, who tolerates sin and stays out of the way. "We don't want God telling us what to do or how to live!"
> 
> This is why Christ died on the Cross--to free us from sin and save us from Hell.
> 
> This is why Christ established the Church--so we can preach and witness to the Truth.
> 
> Their minds have been darkened by sin and attachment to sin, and they strive against God's plan, but it will be to no avail.


Amen...amen!



Laela said:


> !
> --
> 
> --


I didn't know about this smiley...must use this one!


----------



## Nice & Wavy

------------


----------



## Belle Du Jour

beingofserenity said:


> *Marriage is NOT a religious institution, particularly  a Christian institution.* Christians DO NOT have a monopoly on determining what marriage is for everyone else.



With all due respect, that is a lie from the pit of hell.  Before the foundation of the earth, God existed.  God created everything, including marriage, not the other way around.  No one has the authority to change it.  And no amount of dressing gay "marriage" up will make it a marriage in the sight of God.  A union between 2 men or 2 women can and never will be a reflection of the triune Godhead, never be life-bearing and never bear fruit.  Sodomy, as with other sexual sins, is lying with the body.  It can never be blessed through the sacrament of marriage.


----------



## FlyyBohemian

Live.Laugh.Love said:


> Threads like this honestly make me wonder why the AA community is not more REPUBLICAN...the Republican Party aligns with most AA family values, they are not for gay marriage but the democrats are. There are a whole list of traditional values that the repub party holds but we as blacks completely block them out.
> 
> FYI I am not a repub but I will be doing more research on all there policies and beliefs...



Why vote for someone that does not like you? I may agree with you, but if you don't like me, your not getting my support.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

I want to share this from the book entitled: "Satan, You Can't Have My Marriage!" by Iris Delgado

_"We fight in a spiritual war that can only be waged with spiritual  weapons. Satan and his demons would like nothing better than to disrupt  our relationships (Marriage) and break up our families. Every home is a target. We  cannot remain passive."_


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Live.Laugh.Love said:


> Threads like this honestly make me wonder why the AA community is not more REPUBLICAN...the Republican Party aligns with most AA family values, they are not for gay marriage but the democrats are. There are a whole list of traditional values that the repub party holds but we as blacks completely block them out.
> 
> FYI I am not a repub but I will be doing more research on all there policies and beliefs...


This is so beyond political systems.  Remember, it was President Clinton that instituted the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).  President Obama lied and said that he believed marriage was between a man and a woman, just so that he could get the votes he needed to become POTUS...and not just the evangelical vote, [because there were many evangelicals who did not allow the wool of his lies to be pulled over their eyes] and when he got what he wanted, his tongue twisted and now what he always felt has surfaced.

There are many repubs who also are coming in defense of this suppose gay marriage act.  People who are of both sides are falling by the wayside.  I didn't vote either this past election...God gave me a 'Ram in the Bush' and I was truly blessed.

This fight isn't political...its a spiritual war that no matter what it looks like, THE BELIEVERS IN JESUS CHRIST WIN IN THE END!!!

Hallelujah...Glory to the Lord Most High!!!


----------



## JaneBond007

I think Clinton should have shut up recently.  He signed the thing 14 years ago and retracts himself now?  What does that say?  He thinks he was discriminatory in supporting traditional marriage and not same-sex unions?  He passed a bill that was in the interest of the people who voted him in and then changed his mind?  I believe that politicians must stand by their word.  Either they made a stupid choice or they vascillated between beliefs.  THat's not how you run office.  Made a decision and stick with it...but first, believe in your decision.  SMH.


----------



## Shimmie

beingofserenity said:


> Marriage is NOT a religious institution, particularly  a Christian institution. *Christians DO NOT have a monopoly on determining what marriage is for everyone else*.



But God does.  Marriage is HIS design.  The first marriage was ordained and created by God, One Man, One Woman.   

It's obvious that you're unware of this.   It's not changing just because someone else doesn't agree / or believes it.    As long as it still takes air to breathe, blood to pump through and give life to one's heart, water to survive, Marriage is and always will be ordained and shall remain as One Man and One Woman.   

The definition of Marriage is not changing just because you want it to.   Stop being silly.  Two people of the same sex are *not* meant to interact sexually and most assuredly not meant to be married.    It's utter foolishless.   It's something which will never be right.   

And anyone who calls themself a Christian and supports gay marriage has 'left' God and no longer represent His standard and holiness.  You may be proud of them, but God is not.  

All you can do is disagree, however you cannot validate that God is pleased with this.  All you can do is disagree, however it bears no weight, validation, nor value.    They have by choice, departed from the faith by defending homosexuality.  It's a whole lot deeper than verbally nauseating the words, _'God is Love'_ thinking that it's changes God's Word and His plan and design for men and women whom He created and not ourselves.    

Any Christian who defends homosexuality is in a greater sin than those who are not Christian, for they KNOW better, they KNOW what God has to say about it, and yet they have chosen to depart from His Word of their own free will, in spite of the truth that they know.   They are doing more harm to gays than gays are doing for themselves, by validating the lifestyle giving them the false impression that God approves of the gay lifestyle.


----------



## JaneBond007

beingofserenity said:


> Marriage is NOT a religious institution, particularly  a Christian institution. Christians DO NOT have a monopoly on determining what marriage is for everyone else.




I don't believe I said marriage was a christian institution, honey.  There are Many religions in the world and in most of them, marriage comes via some type of sacramental practice within it.  Marriage was definitely religious in past times and since the 1700's, secular marriage was gaining.  That's why it's called...."secular marriage."  

Please don't insult the intelligence of the people in this thread.  I personally do not believe that christianity, a mere 2,000 years old, was and is the sole religious institution that upholds traditional marriage.


----------



## Laela

For me, supporting gay marriage is like agreeing with an atheist that there is no God. Won't happen...


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Laela said:


> For me, supporting gay marriage is like agreeing with an atheist that there is no God. Won't happen...


You and Galadriel are like breakdancing in this thread with these quotes...I love it!


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> I am so disgusted by the number of people in my FB feed who chose to "come out" and support gay marriage.  Some of these people self-identify as Christian.  NO ONE in my feed stood up for traditional marriage.  I was the lone (probably seen as crazy) voice crying in the wilderness LOL.  The Book says that men will be given over to their own lustful desires and that's exactly what's happening.



Lady Belle, this is the best time ever... the best. 

It's when we stand 'alone' for righteousness when all others choose not to, that we know that God knows that we are truly His.    

Remember when Elijah stood alone?   The children of Baal mocked him, claiming that their god, Baal was god.

YET... Elijah said, _"How long will you halt between two opinions?  If God be God serve God, if Baal be god, serve Baal.   _

Lawd, don't get me started on this story.   I'm totally on fire right now.   

While the children of baal were on baal 'Facebook' feed, cheering and shouting for Baal to show up and show out... they only ended up tearing their skin from their bodies, bleeding and crying, yet baal, never came through.  Their support for baal was in utter shame and in vain.

Okay... I love this.  God has used I Kings 18 to just bless my soul; I love it so much.  And I know that you know the story, but I just gotta tell it.   

Okay... here it is: I just gotta praise God for a minute.  

Elijah, all alone watching while they go through all of 'dat'.  

Sooooooo Elijah orders a huge trench to be dug around the Altar of the Lord.  And he orders to have the Altar of the Lord to be saturated with water.   The water filled the trench as it soaked through the Altar.  

However......

Elijah said:  "Wet it again"

They did 

Elijah said:  "Wet it a third time"

They did... a third time.  

Then Elijah prayed unto God, the Holy God of Israel...

The fire came down from Heaven.   Yet it did.   The fire came down from Heaven and burned upon the Altar; the fire was so great that it lapped up the waters in the trenches and burned the water soaked Altar.   

The children of baal, repented and began to cry:  _The Lord is God, The Lord is God.  The Lord is God._

Precious Sister, Lady Belle, I know exactly how you feel.   Oh yes.   I too, have more often than not been the 'Lone Follower of the Lord', or at least I felt that way.  Yet, God always showed up for me.   Always.

You are not alone.   'Wet it again'.   Continue to honour and stand for God and all that He is on your Facebook feeds.    You are never alone.



BTW:   I know that you know all of this.   I just wanted to encourage you, my sister.  That's all.  

For as long as I live, I will never forget the wisdom you shared on marriage in the thread about ChicFila, last summer.   Your words still live in my heart and I will cherish them forever.   

:blowkiss:


----------



## Live.Laugh.Love

FlyyBohemian said:


> Why vote for someone that does not like you? I may agree with you, but if you don't like me, your not getting my support.



I don't think the democrats like us either, they just tell us what we wanna hear....and no having Obama in office doesn't change much in terms of        How people REALLY Feel. politicians go with the party most likely to get them elected.


----------



## sweetvi

I looooove my sisters!!!!!!!


----------



## Shimmie

Laela said:


> For me, supporting gay marriage is like agreeing with an atheist that there is no God.
> 
> *Won't happen...*



_"Won't happen" _

Love it...

Love you and Hubby too.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Marriage IS the HIGHEST INSTITUTION ON EARTH!  The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob absolutely created marriage for HIS GLORY and because it's that important to Him, satan wants to distort it through the mind of man.
> 
> Man needs to understand that he can be easily manipulated like a puppet by the devil when he is WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST!  When you are truly in Christ, you have the MIND OF CHRIST and hold the thoughts, feelings and purposes of His heart and in His heart is NO SIN!
> 
> So, as Christians...we have been given by the CREATOR OF MARRIAGE a mandate to be with One man One woman and procreate round-about our tables for the purpose of giving Him the glory.
> 
> What God says is true and everything everyone else has to say that is contrary to what He has to say, is a lie.
> 
> ETA:
> From Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
> *in·sti·tu·tion
> *
> 
> _noun_ \ˌin(t)-stə-ˈtü-shən, -ˈtyü-\
> 
> 
> *Definition of INSTITUTION*
> 
> 1
> *:* an act of instituting *:* establishment
> 
> 2
> _a_ *:* a significant practice, relationship, or organization in a society or culture <the _institution_ of marriage>



Nice & Wavy ...  

Thank you for posting this, especially the word, 'Institution'.

Praise God...  

As soon as I read your post, the words to the Wedding Vows began to flow...

_ "Marriage is an 'Institution' which should not be entered into unadvisedly..." _

I love these words.   They are striking and make an impact regarding the truth of Marriage.


  Hi Pastor 'A'.   I love you.


----------



## Laela

We love you Shimmie!!

:Rose: :Rose:  :Rose:




Shimmie said:


> _"Won't happen" _
> 
> Love it...
> 
> Love you and Hubby too.


----------



## Galadriel

Came across this Scripture (2 Peter 2) and it really spoke to me!

False teachers will secretly bring in destructive heresies...bringing upon themselves swift destruction. *And many will follow their lewdness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled*...They will exploit you with false words. *Those who indulge in lust and despise authority, bold and wilful, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct*... they will be destroyed... They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their dissipation... They have eyes for adultery, insatiable for sin. *They entice unsteady souls*. Accursed children!... For them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved. Uttering loud boasts of foolishness, they entice with lewd passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error. *They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption.* If, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become for them worse than the first. It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the commandment given to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb: The dog returns to his vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> Came across this Scripture (2 Peter 2) and it really spoke to me!
> 
> False teachers will secretly bring in destructive heresies...bringing upon themselves swift destruction. *And many will follow their lewdness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled*...They will exploit you with false words. *Those who indulge in lust and despise authority, bold and wilful, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct*... they will be destroyed... They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their dissipation... They have eyes for adultery, insatiable for sin. *They entice unsteady souls*. Accursed children!... For them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved. Uttering loud boasts of foolishness, they entice with lewd passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error. *
> 
> They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption.* If, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become for them worse than the first. It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the commandment given to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb: The dog returns to his vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.



God's Word is always 'current' with the times in which we live. 

Thanks for sharing this Galadriel.   Awesome Word.


----------



## Shimmie

sweetvi said:


> I looooove my sisters!!!!!!!



And we love you too....sweetvi


----------



## Shimmie

Why don’t melons get married? 

































They cantaloupe.


----------



## sweetvi

Oh my goodness.  I had that on my Facebook with illustrations and everything lol.


----------



## Galadriel

Recent article I came across from (OSV) online:
*
10 Arguments For Gay Marriage--And Why They're Flawed
*

Perhaps no issue is more nerve-wracking today than same-sex marriage. It’s a magnet for controversy, evoking strong reactions from those on either side of the debate. But beneath all the fiery passion and rhetoric, there are real arguments to evaluate. In this article, we’ll examine the 10 most common ones made in favor of same-sex marriage, many of which you’ve probably heard before. By pointing out the flaws, we’ll show how each argument ultimately comes up short. 

However, before we begin, let’s note a few things. First, this article concerns civil marriage — marriage as defined and promoted by the state. It doesn’t deal with the Church’s sacramental understanding, although the two often overlap. Second, the responses to the arguments are emphatically nonreligious. They don’t depend on any sacred text or divine revelation. They’re based on reason, philosophy, biology and history. Third, this article only refutes arguments in favor of same-sex marriage. It doesn’t touch upon the many positive arguments supporting traditional marriage. 

One more note: This is not an attack on people with same-sex attractions. All people, regardless of sexual orientation, deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Instead, this article is a rational look at whether civil marriage, an institution that touches all people and cultures, should be redefined. 

*1. Marriage has evolved throughout history, so it can change again.*

Different cultures have treated marriage differently. Some promoted arranged marriages. Others tied marriage to dowries. Still others saw marriage as a political relationship through which they could forge family alliances. 

But all these variations still embraced the fundamental, unchanging essence of marriage. They still saw it, in general, as a public, lifelong partnership between one man and one woman for the sake of generating and raising children. 

This understanding predates any government or religion. It’s a pre-political, pre-religious institution evident even in cultures that had no law or faith to promote it. 

Yet, even supposing the essence of marriage could change, would that mean it should? We know from other areas of life such as medical research and nuclear physics that just because you can do something doesn’t mean you ought. After all, such action may not be ethical or serve the common good. Even if this argument had historical basis, it would not necessarily be a good reason to change the meaning of marriage.

*2. Same-sex marriage is primarily about equality.
*
This argument is emotionally powerful since we all have deep, innate longings for fairness and equality. Moreover, history has given us many failures in this area, including women banned from voting and African-Americans denied equal civil rights. The question, of course, is whether same-sex couples are denied equality by not being allowed to marry each other. 

To answer that, we first must understand equality. Equality is not equivalency. It does not mean treating every person or every group in exactly the same way. To use an analogy, men and women have equal rights, but because they significantly differ they require separate restrooms. Equality means treating similar things similarly, but not things that are fundamentally different. 

Second, there are really two issues here: the equality of different people and the equality of different relationships. The current marriage laws already treat all people equally. Any unmarried man and unmarried woman can marry each other, regardless of their sexual orientation; the law is neutral with respect to orientation just as it ignores race and religion. 

The real question is whether same-sex relationships differ significantly from opposite-sex relationships, and the answer is yes. The largest difference is that same-sex couples cannot produce children, nor ensure a child’s basic right to be raised by his mother and father. These facts alone mean we’re talking about two very different types of relationships. It’s wrong, therefore, to assume the state should necessarily treat them as if they were the same. 

Same-sex marriage advocates may argue that it’s discriminatory to favor heterosexual spouses over homosexual couples. With all of the benefits flowing from marriage, this unfairly endorses one set of relationships over another. But if the state endorsed same-sex marriage, it would then be favoring gay “spouses” over unmarried heterosexual couples. The argument runs both ways and is ultimately self-defeating.
*
3. Everyone has the right to marry whomever he or she loves.*

Though catchy, few people truly believe this slogan. Most of us acknowledge there should be at least some limitations on marriage for social or health reasons. For example, a man can’t marry a young child or a close relative. And if a man is truly in love with two different women, he’s legally not allowed to marry both of them, even if both agree to such an arrangement. 
More on this Topic

*What the Church Teaches:
*
Same Sex Marriage

So, the real question here is not whether marriage should be limited, but how. To answer that, we must determine why the government even bothers with marriage. It’s not to validate two people who love each other, nice as that is. It’s because marriage between one man and one woman is likely to result in a family with children. Since the government is deeply interested in the propagation and stabilization of society, it promotes and regulates this specific type of relationship above all others. 

To put it simply, in the eyes of the state, marriage is not about adults; it’s about children. Claiming a “right to marry whomever I love” ignores the true emphasis of marriage. 

Notice that nobody is telling anyone whom he or she can or cannot love. Every person, regardless of orientation, is free to enter into private romantic relationships with whomever he or she chooses. But there is no general right to have any relationship recognized as marriage by the government.

*4. Same-sex marriage won’t affect you, so what’s the big deal?*

Since marriage is a relationship between two individuals, what effect would it have on the rest of us? At first glance, it sounds like a good question, but a deeper look reveals that since marriage is a public institution, redefining it would affect all of society. 

First, it would weaken marriage. After same-sex marriage was legislated in Spain in 2005, marriage rates plummeted. The same happened in the Netherlands. Redefining marriage obscures its meaning and purpose, thereby discouraging people from taking it seriously. 

Second, it would affect education and parenting. After same-sex marriage was legalized in Canada, the Toronto School Board implemented a curriculum promoting homosexuality and denouncing “heterosexism.” They also produced posters titled “Love Knows No Gender,” which depicted both homosexual and polygamous relationships as equivalent to marriage. Despite parents’ objections, the board decreed that they had no right to remove their children from such instruction. This and many similar cases confirm that when marriage is redefined, the new definition is forced on children, regardless of their parents’ desires.Third, redefining marriage would threaten moral and religious liberty. This is already evident in our own country. In Massachusetts and Washington, D.C., for instance, Catholic Charities can no longer provide charitable adoption services based on new definitions of marriage. Elsewhere, Canadian Bishop Frederick Henry was investigated by the Alberta Human Rights Commission for simply explaining the Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality in a newspaper column. Examples like this show how redefining marriage threatens religious freedom.

*5. Same-sex marriage will not lead to other redefinitions.*

When marriage revolves around procreation, it makes sense to restrict it to one man and one woman. That’s the only relationship capable of producing children. But if we redefine marriage as simply a loving, romantic union between committed adults, what principled reason would we have for rejecting polygamist or polyamorous — that is, multiple-person — relationships as marriages? 

Thomas Peters, cultural director at the National Organization for Marriage, doesn’t see one. “Once you sever the institution of marriage from its biological roots, there is little reason to cease redefining it to suit the demands of various interest groups,” Peters said. 

This isn’t just scaremongering or a hypothetical slippery slope. These aftereffects have already been observed in countries that have legalized same-sex marriage. *For example, in Brazil and the Netherlands, three-way relationships were recently granted the full rights of marriage.* After marriage was redefined in Canada, a polygamist man launched legal action to have his relationships recognized by law. Even in our own country,* the California Legislature passed a bill to legalize families of three or more parents. 
*
*Procreation is the main reason civil marriage is limited to two people. When sexual love replaces children as the primary purpose of marriage, restricting it to just two people no longer makes sense.*

Continued below...


----------



## Galadriel

Continued...

*6. If same-sex couples can’t marry because they can’t reproduce, why can infertile couples marry?*

This argument concerns two relatively rare situations: younger infertile couples and elderly couples. If marriage is about children, why does the state allow the first group to marry? The reason is that while we know every same-sex couple is infertile, we don’t generally know that about opposite-sex couples. 

Some suggest forcing every engaged couple to undergo mandatory fertility testing before marriage. But this would be outrageous. Besides being prohibitively expensive, it would also be an egregious invasion of privacy, all to detect an extremely small minority of couples. 

Another problem is that infertility is often misdiagnosed. Fertile couples may be wrongly denied marriage under such a scenario. This is never the case for same-sex couples, who cannot produce children together. 

But why does the government allow elderly couples to marry? It’s true that most elderly couples cannot reproduce (though women as old as 70 have been known to give birth). However, these marriages are so rare that it’s simply not worth the effort to restrict them. Also, elderly marriages still feature the right combination of man and woman needed to make children. Thus they provide a healthy model for the rest of society, and are still capable of offering children a home with a mother and a father.

*
7. Children will not be affected since there is no difference between same-sex parents and opposite-sex parents.
*
This argument was most famously stated in 2005 when the American Psychological Association (APA) wrote that “not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents.” 

*However, several recent studies have put that claim to rest. In June, LSU scholar Loren Marks published a peer-reviewed paper in Social Science Research. It examined the 59 studies that the APA relied on for its briefing. Marks discovered that not one of the studies used a large, random, representative sample of lesbian or gay parents and their children. Several used extremely small “convenience” samples, recruiting participants through advertisements or word of mouth, and many failed to even include a control group. Furthermore, the studies did not track the children over time and were largely based on interviews with parents about the upbringing of their own children — a virtual guarantee of biased results. *

One month later, Texas sociologist Mark Regnerus released a comprehensive study titled “How Different Are the Adult Children of Parents Who Have Same-Sex Relationships?” His research used a large, random and national sample and its scope was unprecedented among prior work in this field. *Contrary to the APA, Regnerus found that for a majority of outcomes, children raised by parents with same-sex relationships drastically underperformed children raised in a household with married, biological parents. *

He quickly noted that his study didn’t necessarily show that same-sex couples are bad parents, but that it did definitively put to rest the claim that there are “no differences” among parenting combinations.

*8. Opposition to same-sex marriage is based on bigotry, homophobia and religious hatred.*

These accusations are not so much an argument for same-sex marriage as personal attacks designed to shut down real dialogue. Let’s look at each one. 

First, bigotry. A quick visit to Facebook, Twitter or any online comment box confirms that for many people, support for traditional marriage is tantamount to bigotry. This holds off-line, too. In November, Scottish Cardinal Keith O’Brien was pegged “Bigot of the Year” by a gay rights group for simply opposing same-sex marriage in public. 

So, is the charge accurate? Well, the definition of bigotry is “unwilling to tolerate opinions different than your own.” However, tolerating opinions does not require enshrining them through law. One can tolerate advocates of same-sex marriage, and seriously engage the idea, while still rejecting it for compelling reasons. 

Second, homophobia. This refers to a fear of homosexuality, and the assumption is that people who oppose same-sex marriage do so because they’re irrationally afraid. But as this article shows, there are many good reasons to oppose same-sex marriage that have nothing to do with fear. Branding someone “homophobic” is typically used to end rational discussion. 

Third, religious hatred. Some people disagree with same-sex marriage solely for religious reasons. But, again, as this article demonstrates, one can disagree for other reasons, without appealing to the Bible, divine revelation or any religious authority. You don’t need religious teachings to understand, analyze and discuss the purpose of marriage or its effects on the common good. 

If these accusations were all true, it would mean that the overwhelming majority of people throughout time — who by and large supported traditional marriage — would likewise be homophobic, intolerant bigots. That would include the most profound thinkers in many different traditions: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Musonius Rufus, Xenophanes, Plutarch, St. Thomas Aquinas, Immanuel Kant and Mahatma Gandhi. Most people would reject such an absurdity.

*9. The struggle for same-sex marriage is just like the civil rights movement of the 1960s.
*
The suggestion here is that sex is similar to race, and therefore denying marriage for either reason is wrong. The problem, however, is that interracial marriage and same-sex marriage are significantly different. 

For instance, nothing prevents interracial couples from fulfilling the basic essence of marriage — a public, lifelong relationship ordered toward procreation. Because of this, *the anti-miscegenation laws of the 1960s were wrong to discriminate against interracial couples. Yet same-sex couples are not biologically ordered toward procreation and, therefore, cannot fulfill the basic requirements of marriage. *

It’s important to note that African-Americans, who have the most poignant memories of marital discrimination, generally disagree that preventing interracial marriage is like banning same-sex marriage. For example, when Californians voted on Proposition 8, a state amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman, some 70 percent of African-Americans voted in favor. 

According to Peters, “Likening same-sex marriage to interracial marriage is puzzling and offensive to most African-Americans, who are shocked at such a comparison.”

*10. Same-sex marriage is inevitable, so we should stand on the right side of history.
*
On Nov. 6, voters in three states — Maine, Maryland and Washington — voted against marriage as it has traditionally been understood. In Minnesota, voters rejected a measure to amend the state constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman. Many advocates of same-sex marriage considered this a sign that the marriage tides are turning. But is that true? And if so, how does that shift impact the case for same-sex marriage? 

First, if the tide is in fact turning, it’s still little more than a ripple. The states that voted in November to redefine marriage did so with slim margins, none garnering more than 53 percent of the vote. The tiny victories were despite record-breaking funding advantages, sitting governors campaigning for same-sex marriage and strong support among the media. 

Before these four aberrations, 32 states had voted on the definition of marriage. Each and every time they voted to affirm marriage as the union of one man and one woman. Of the six states that recognized same-sex marriage before the November election, none arrived there through a vote by the people. Each redefinition was imposed by state legislatures and courts. Overall, Americans remain strongly in favor of traditional marriage. Most polls show roughly two-thirds of the country wants to keep marriage as it is. 

Yet, even if the tides have recently shifted, that does not make arguments in its favor any more persuasive. We don’t look to other moral issues and say, “Well, people are eventually going to accept it, so we might as well get in line.” We shouldn’t do that for same-sex marriage, either.


----------



## beingofserenity

Live.Laugh.Love said:


> Threads like this honestly make me wonder why the AA community is not more REPUBLICAN...the Republican Party aligns with most AA family values, they are not for gay marriage but the democrats are. There are a whole list of traditional values that the repub party holds but we as blacks completely block them out.
> 
> FYI I am not a repub but I will be doing more research on all there policies and beliefs...



I don't believe that all AA share these same conservative values.


----------



## FrazzledFraggle

Live.Laugh.Love said:


> Threads like this honestly make me wonder why the AA community is not more REPUBLICAN...the Republican Party aligns with most AA family values, they are not for gay marriage but the democrats are. There are a whole list of traditional values that the repub party holds but we as blacks completely block them out.
> 
> FYI I am not a repub but I will be doing more research on all there policies and beliefs...



I think it is because even though republicans were instrumental in abolishing slavery, democrats have been most instrumental in the most recent civil rights issues. I think AA in general hold civil rights and fiscal policy out to be more important than morals/family values.

That's why I'm an independent. I don't align closely with either party.


----------



## cutiebe2

I think the problem is that it was never defined as who "owns" marriage. Marriage is a religious ceremony and institution if you get married in a church or other religious setting. But two atheist can get marriage before a judge and be married as well. I think the problem is that the world marriage means two different things for two groups of people. Maybe the state should have a different word for marriages not preformed in a religious setting, hetro- or homosexual.

I usually don't post because the debate is just too much. I don't think anyone is "wrong". I think that Christians and other religions have every right to refuse to marry Gay couples based on their beliefs. If Gay couples cannot be married in a church then that's that, end of discussion. But on the other hand, if Gay couples want a government sanctioned marriage with no religious ties, they should have that too.

Basically I think anyone who does not get married before God should not use the word married. Not only Gays but others who do not have God as the foundation of their Union. That would require changing the speech and vernacular of out American language but still.


----------



## cutiebe2

beingofserenity said:


> I just don't believe this at all.  I believe in God.  I don't call myself a Christian.  So, it doesn't really matter to me how Christians use the Bible to validate why the believe being gay is a sin.  I don't see the Bible as God's literal word. I don't really understand why other people do either.  I respect it, but I DO NOT agree with it at all.  I think that people put way too much stock into what the Bible says.  I think that God speaks to us all and you don't need a Bible, or any book, to interpret that.
> 
> When I see Christians embracing queer people into the Church, it looks like a beautiful thing to me.



Ummmm this is a Christian Forum though.


----------



## AtlantaJJ

beingofserenity  Why would you come into a Christian forum to disagree with Christians? What is your intention?

ETA:
Please read the rules of the  Christian Forum here. Before you continue to post. Thank you and be blessed.


----------



## JaneBond007

beingofserenity said:


> People created marriage.  And as such, people can redefine it.  Some unions between men and women do not bear fruit, and others definitely shouldn't.  I don't think that's valid.  I think God smiles when a lesbian or gay couple come together in love.
> 
> Clearly these religious arguments opposing gay marriage are not doing anything to stop it from being legalized.  I don't understand the fuss.  If someone is gay and wants to get married in the Church, why not let God be the one to take it up with them? * Why not let God be the judge?*



Well, I think He already is, though.    I get what you are saying...but you came in kamikaze .  People aren't daft over here...at least, I'm not.  I look at things from a much larger perspective.  Many others do as well.


----------



## Galadriel

beingofserenity said:


> I just don't believe this at all.  I believe in God.  I don't call myself a Christian.



Clearly the god you believe in is one of your own fashioning and not the One, True, Living God.



beingofserenity said:


> So, it doesn't really matter to me how Christians use the Bible to validate why the believe being gay is a sin.  I don't see the Bible as God's literal word.



Of course you don't, because then it would be very uncomfortable for God to tell you through Scripture that fornication, homosexual sex, lying, stealing, etc. are sins. If you're guilty of committing these, then it's very convenient to say, "Well, I don't really believe that," or "That's not my idea of God."



beingofserenity said:


> I don't really understand why other people do either.



Now we're getting to the crux of the matter. You don't understand why we believe what we believe.



beingofserenity said:


> I respect it, but I DO NOT agree with it at all.  I think that people put way too much stock into what the Bible says.



The Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Why wouldn't we read it, study it, and abide by it as a rule for belief and living?



beingofserenity said:


> I think that God speaks to us all and you don't need a Bible, or any book, to interpret that.



That's sort of a vague New Age-y idea. The problem with this is that you subject "God" to your own personal interpretations or desires. This also makes God inconsistent or untruthful, because you're saying God is telling or teaching people contrary truths--God is Truth itself, and cannot lie or contradict Truth.



beingofserenity said:


> When I see Christians embracing queer people into the Church, it looks like a beautiful thing to me.



I think it's beautiful to embrace them as fellow human beings with dignity, with souls that need ministering and support. However the Church could never contradict God and proclaim homosexual sex as "good" or "right" when God clearly taught us otherwise.


----------



## JaneBond007

beingofserenity said:


> I didn't know that I was talking to you directly, "honey." Please don't insult MY intelligence.  My opinion may not be the same as yours or anyone else's in this thread, but I'm allowed to have it.




Nobody said you didn't have the right...but you are NEW in this side of the forum and came in kamikaze style without realizing YOU were insulting many intelligent and well-informed people who regularly post in this forum.  Even my opinions are not well-taken over here and are deemed "strange."  There are many over here who think I don't have the right to claim I belong to Jesus, so this is not new to me.  Essentially, you blanketed your statement and insulted my intelligence without realizing it.  


Why not come at this backing up your statements like many of us do with scripture, the early church writings of the Doctors of the Church, theologians modern and old, various methods of preserving your argument?  Thread etiquette no. 1  ....KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE.   And actually, you are not allowed to go against christianity over here...read the rules.  Talking openly about an issue differs from attacking the believers of any faith.  I personally feel you thought that we are ignorant of the variety of cultures and faiths that do most certainly support traditional marriage.  It's how it came over.


----------



## Galadriel

beingofserenity said:


> I'm speaking from my heart, which I think is more valuable than what was written in the Bible.



So then there is no such thing as right or wrong? We should all just go by our "hearts" in determining what's good or bad?


----------



## Galadriel

beingofserenity said:


> People created marriage.
> If someone is gay and wants to get married in the Church, why not let God be the one to take it up with them?  Why not let God be the judge?



The problem is that the god you're talking about and the True God are two different ones. You've created an idol in your own image, where you stand in judgment over the Bible and regard it as superfluous and insufficient, and God's commandments as mere suggestions. 

Your god is a god of contradictions, moral relativism, and at a nice cozy distance so that He doesn't demand anything from you.

Sin? What's that? In your worldview, Original Sin and Sin are bad words that surely must not be uttered and bandied about. According to you, sin is what we personally define it as.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

beingofserenity said:


> God created men, women, hemales, shemales, gays, lesbians, blacks, whites, mentally unstable folks, physically disabled folks.  He created everyone.
> 
> I'm not speaking as a Christian.  I'm not speaking from what I've read in the Bible.  I'm speaking from my heart, which I think is more valuable than what was written in the Bible.



Dear, your heart cannot be trusted. The heart is so desperately wicked no one can know it. I will pray for you. It futile to discuss this further at this point if you think we're spreading hate. This is what love looks like. God chastens those He loves, He doesn't let them continue to go downhill in sexual depravity. Have a great day.


----------



## JaneBond007

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.


----------



## Galadriel

cutiebe2 said:


> I think the problem is that it was never defined as who "owns" marriage. Marriage is a religious ceremony and institution if you get married in a church or other religious setting. But two atheist can get marriage before a judge and be married as well. I think the problem is that the world marriage means two different things for two groups of people.



Both a Christian marriage and a marriage between an atheist man and woman are still marriages, however as a SACRAMENT, only the Christian couple would be sacramentally married whereas the atheist marriage would be a natural marriage. BOTH marriages are valid, but one would be natural and the other would be sacramental.

However both couples would have what's necessary to make a marriage--one man, and one woman.




cutiebe2 said:


> Maybe the state should have a different word for marriages not preformed in a religious setting, hetro- or homosexual.



I don't think that's the issue (as stated above). Marriage is the union of a man and a woman, it's an inherently heterosexual institution. Whether it's done in a civil court or church, it is still the union of one man and one woman.

Just as I could never be recognized as the father of my children because I lack the necessary ingredient, a homosexual couple can't call their union a marriage because they lack the necessary ingredients--one man and one woman.

Also, as it has been pointed out, if we simply strip marriage down to a system of public validation of people's romantic choices, then what's to stop three or four "consenting adults" from entering a polyamorous marriage? In Brazil this is already happening.

You can't marry someone who is already married.
You can't marry a child.
You can't marry a close relative.
You can't marry someone of the same sex.




cutiebe2 said:


> I usually don't post because the debate is just too much. I don't think anyone is "wrong". I think that Christians and other religions have every right to refuse to marry Gay couples based on their beliefs. If Gay couples cannot be married in a church then that's that, end of discussion. But on the other hand, if Gay couples want a government sanctioned marriage with no religious ties, they should have that too.



I would argue that they shouldn't have a government sanctioned marriage, because the government only involves itself in marriage to begin with because marriage produces CHILDREN and the family is the basic unit of society. The government has a vested interest in its next and future generations of citizens.


----------



## JaneBond007

Other faiths:

What is the Bahá’í attitude towards homosexuality?
Bahá’í law limits permissible sexual relations to those between a man and a woman in marriage. Believers are expected to abstain from sex outside matrimony. Bahá’ís do not, however, attempt to impose their moral standards on those who have not accepted the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh. While requiring uprightness in all matters of morality, whether sexual or otherwise, the Bahá’í teachings also take account of human frailty and call for tolerance and understanding in regard to human failings. In this context, to regard homosexuals with prejudice would be contrary to the spirit of the Bahá’í teachings. 


Islam

* Even though our religion allows us latitude, more than most, to ponder and reconsider some issues, homosexuality is clearly and explicitly condemned by the Quran (7:80-83, 11:77-79), the Prophet, and his progeny.

* When we have a conflict with the Quran, which is the word of God verbatim, we do not ask where the Quran went wrong but rather why are we, limited beings, in conflict with the wisdom of the absolute, God Almighty.

** As Muslims we do not make up our religion, but we receive it and we obey it.
*
* Thus stated, we need to clarify, that it does not mean that we hate the homosexual person but rather that we find the behavior abhorable. We want to help with sensitivity and care whoever has these tendencies, or practices such behavior. We can further point out the following:

God has created everything in pairs each endowed with physical and psychological characteristics to complement and complete one another. The Quran (4:1) indicates that human beings have been created from one living entity (nafs), which represents the origin of both the male and the female. The human species though has included male and female since its existence. The "mating" or "spousing" of male and female sexes is original in human nature and out of this instinctive relationship the human race develops, continues and spreads.

Between the two sexes a gravitating combination of love, tenderness, and care is engendered, so that each finds in the other completeness, tranquility, and support (Quran 30:21). Having children and loving them represents another fulfillment of the human nature (Quran 42:49-50). It is through this spousal complementation and completion, according to the Quran (7:189), that each spouse achieves comfort, and enjoys peace of mind, satisfaction, and fulfillment. These relationships extend beyond the physical sexual contact and to psychological, spiritual relations.

The blessings of this completeness are not ended by their accomplishment, but they continue and develop through bringing forth children, raising them, and providing the whole family with material, emotional, and moral needs.

The pleasures of completion and procreation may well be extended and multiplied, when one is granted grand children, who not only represent genealogical continuation, but are also a dynamic revitalization of the human race.

Such physical-psychological-spiritual development through spousing and mating, followed by procreation, that may continue for more than one generation, ought to lead every sensible human being to be grateful to God for His successive and multiplying favors with his own family.......


----------



## JaneBond007

Some more...with the recurrent themes...."love of the homosexual...but that procreation is holy because this is how we come about.."

*Orthodox Judaism*

Biblical Prohibition

According to the Bible, homosexual acts are "to'evah," an abomination.

In Leviticus 18:22, it is written: "And you shall not cohabit with a male as one cohabits with a woman; it is an abomination."

And in Leviticus 20:13, it is written: "And if a man cohabits with a male as with a woman, both of them have done an abominable thing; they shall be put to death; their blood falls back upon them."

The Biblical prohibition of homosexual acts seems harsh at first glance, but not all orthodox Jews interpret these passages in a simple way.

Boteach

Rabbi Shmuel Boteach, Chairman of the Oxford University L'Chaim Society and author, uses a wider perspective in his interpretation of these passages. Boteach has developed a more humane interpretation of G-d's mandate for heterosexual acts and prohibition of homosexual acts.

According to Boteach, *homosexual acts are wrong simply because the Torah says they are wrong, and not because they are an aberration or sickness. *Sexuality as a whole is instinctive, and both heterosexuality and homosexuality are natural. Then why does G-d say that heterosexual love is holy and homosexual love is an abomination? Heterosexual love is the way the human race propagates itself. G-d demands that we regulate our sexual activity so that we will lead happier lives and fulfill our commitments to our communities.

The Torah is against homosexual acts, not homosexual people. Judaism and G-d love all people. Boteach reminds us that the Torah also calls eating non-kosher food 'to'evah', an abomination. The word 'to'evah' in the Torah does not depict a social repulsion.

Furthermore, the Torah condemns the homosexual act, not homosexual love or the homosexual urge. *"Judaism does not prohibit or in any way look down upon homosexual love. In the eyes of Judaism the love between two men or two women can be as natural as the love between a man and a woman. What it does prohibit is homosexual intercourse." *


Sikhism

Q: What are Sikhism’s beliefs on homosexuality?

A: Sikhism has no specific teachings about homosexuality. The holy scripture of Sikhs, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, does not explicitly mention homosexuality; however, married life is encouraged time and time again in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. *Whenever marriage is mentioned, it is always in reference to a man and a woman*.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the complete guide to life and salvation. Some Sikhs believe that if a marriage between two of the same sexes is not mentioned, it is therefore not right. The counterargument is that, marriage is mentioned as a spiritual unity and since the soul does not have a gender, homosexuality should be permitted. The counterargument again arises that spiritual unity in marriage is only mentioned between a man and a woman. Since sexuality with the same gender is not directly mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Sikhism’s stand on homosexuality is derived from other beliefs such as marriage and sex.

Since marriage is only mentioned as a spiritual relationship between a man and a woman in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, same sex marriages are not conducted in Gurdwara Sahib. Only the services that are clearly permitted are conducted in the Gurdwara Sahib.

Sikh Gurus introduced a lifestyle with which one remains focused in life in order to be one with God. Homosexuality is not a part of the lifestyle instructed by Sikh Gurus. And nor is having premarital sex or having multiple sex partners if you are a heterosexual. According to Sikh Lifestyle, sexual relationship is to only exist between a man and a woman married in the Gurdwara Sahib.

*Since sexual relationship can only be after marriage and marriage can only be between a man and a woman, homosexual lifestyle is logically not accepted by Sikh beliefs.*

*Sikhism does not hate or believe that homosexuals are damned to hell. Gurbani tells us that God is without hatred and animosity.* We are all children of God. Gurdwara Sahib is open to all, no matter who they are or what kind of lifestyle they live. God loves everyone regardless of one’s thoughts or actions. Homosexuals are free to attend the Gurdwara Sahib and participate in church services.

Sikhism is more concerned with ones attainment of enlightenment rather than habitual desires such as sexuality. Views on homosexuality tend not to be a primary concern in Sikh teachings, as the universal goal is to overcome sexual desires all together. Sikhs are not to have hate or animosity to any person, regardless of race, caste, color, creed, gender, or sexuality.


----------



## JaneBond007

I haven't left the stand yet...


In fact, the point is NOT to abuse homosexual people and look at them with disgust...I've not supported that on here...but the point is to support traditional marriage and to stop this madness calling traditional and average marriage proponents as bigoted neanderthals.  It is not true.  Again, ad nauseum, if they wish for civil unions and benefits, go right ahead...I cannot tell you nor any other person how to conduct his/her life.   However, please do not utilize the term "marriage."  Across cultures and religions, it refers to a man and woman who are open to procreation (in the most traditional of insight).


----------



## cutiebe2

Galadriel said:


> I would argue that they shouldn't have a government sanctioned marriage, because the government only involves itself in marriage to begin with because marriage produces CHILDREN and the family is the basic unit of society. The government has a vested interest in its next and future generations of citizens.



I can see the points you made as to hetrosexual marriage. But on the other hand the courts do take into account the changing times. If 40,000 children already live with homosexual couples who are actively raising them, should they not get the same economic benefits of a union through the government? I mean, there are families based on the union of homosexual couples that have grandchildren by now. So again, while I agree to some of your points, I still wonder what is the solution. If children are the basis of the reason for union and marriage, and homosexual couples have already adopted or created children through whatever means, then are the children and partners entitled to the same economic and social benefits that married couples receive?

I just think the staus quo is not working and these cases will continue to go to the supreme court until a soultion is made as most of them are based on government benefits. Right now we are in limbo which I think can be as detrimental as making a final decision. There are homosexual familes, now what?

I am very interested in responses although I don't know if this is the right forum for that as I am asking from a legal perspective. I also already assume the opinion of homosexuality as a sin and anti gay-marriage given the Christian forum. 
I hope I explained myself


----------



## pebbles

beingofserenity said:


> We have a difference of opinion here. I don't believe homosexuality is a sin. I don't believe that God sees it as a sin either.


 
You are in the wrong forum. Per the bible, this issue has already been settled. This is the *Christian Forum*, and per the rules clearly posted since 2005: 

"*The purpose of this particular forum is to allow believers of Jesus Christ to fellowship together. Its not political, controversial, or a means for debating. Any post that do not pertain to spiritual advancement, encouragement, etc. will be removed."*

Further still, tone matters greatly in this forum. What occurs in other parts of the LHCF won't be tolerated here. Please be mindful of that.


----------



## Laela

Shimmie, you have no idea...this is so powerfully true on so many levels...like the ocean's current, a force that is continually moving, driven by the Wind. The climate may change, the waves may break, but the water remains water.
Spiritually, that 'current' runs right through us (man) ....

*John 7:38* KJV 
_He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water_.




Shimmie said:


> *God's Word is always 'current' *with the times in which we live.
> 
> Thanks for sharing this Galadriel.   Awesome Word.


----------



## Kinkyhairlady

If this is passed we all we will to deal with Gods wrath. Remember God said next time it won't be a flood it will be fire. Fellow Christians all we can do is pray but also continue to stand up for what's right. Homosexuality is a sin and it is clearly written in the bible. One has a choice to sleep with the same sec and they choose to do as they please they will indeed perish unless they stop. If someone wants to be Gay then so be it buy all this wanting equality and what not is preposterous to me. They chose that lifestyle so deal with the consequences.


----------



## Galadriel

cutiebe2 said:


> I can see the points you made as to hetrosexual marriage. But on the other hand the courts do take into account the changing times. If 40,000 children already live with homosexual couples who are actively raising them, should they not get the same economic benefits of a union through the government?



I'm assuming you mean certain tax benefits and being able to add one's partner onto health insurance. I think those economic benefits should be addressed individually, for whichever households with adults who want to  put together their finances and even add one another to their insurance. There are perhaps adults living together in households with no sexual relationship, but who would benefit from a financial joining of assets and benefits. 

However, that does not constitute a marriage. 

A marriage is more than just the financial benefits, and this is what they are striving for. Just look at California--it already has generous domestic partnership laws on the books, but why is there still the push for "gay marriage" in California? Because, again, it's more than just the financial benefit that's being sought after. They want the moral and social equivalency of marriage.

As for the children, studies show that they do best with a mother and father (re: adoption vs. gay adoption). As for gay couples who have children from the result of previous heterosexual relationships, I think a financial arrangement (like the one I described above) could be helpful. As for the child's social and emotional growth, that's going to be rough territory since statistically they're at a disadvantage.



cutiebe2 said:


> I just think the staus quo is not working and these cases will continue to go to the supreme court until a soultion is made as most of them are based on government benefits. Right now we are in limbo which I think can be as detrimental as making a final decision. There are homosexual familes, now what?



What about polygamous unions with resulting children? Would you agree or disagree that polygamy should be legalized and recognized as the same as a marriage between one man and one woman because there are children also involved in such unions?


----------



## Laela

So glad you pointed this out, this is true.

And clearly, gays are on it, hence the increase in adoption of babies among gay couples...  



Galadriel said:


> B
> *I would argue that they shouldn't have a government sanctioned marriage, because the government only involves itself in marriage to begin with because marriage produces CHILDREN* and the family is the basic unit of society. The government has a vested interest in its next and future generations of citizens.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

This is to BeingofSerenity,

This is coming from my husband and from me, Nice & Wavy....

The sun rises and sets on all of us.  If the sun didn't set, we would have disorder.  If the sun didn't rise, we would have disorder as well.  So comes the disorder when we choose to separate ourselves from the Son of Man, Jesus Christ.

You said in an above post that God smiles upon the actions of lesbians/queers, etc.  How can He smile upon sin?  How can He as a Holy and Righteous God smile and enjoy the sins of man?  When Jesus was on the cross dying for the sins of the world, God didn't look upon Jesus and smile, NO...He had to turn away because GOD CANNOT LOOK UPON SIN!!!

No matter how you view life and what you think God is thinking, only the Holy Spirit continuously searches the mind of God and He, the Holy Spirit, reveals to those of us who have given theirs lives to Jesus Christ and are listening and obeying the Word...it is He who reveals God's heart.

All of these arguments and feelings we have of what we say God thinks or doesn't think, and what we feel is right or wrong, is simply a distraction for our real purpose on earth and that is to get to know Him, the Great I AM, Jesus the Christ AND so that we can be with Him for all eternity.  And the more we separate ourselves from Him, is the more we study the ways of satan and live our lives for him and trust...he isn't your friend.

Whether you believe in the Bible or not, or believe in God or not...We all  are going to answer to Him for every deed that has been done in our bodies.   

Jesus died on the cross, to shed His blood for our sins so that we could be with Him for eternity.  You don't want to be at the other address...which is....separation from HIM for all eternity.

Believing or not is a choice and we will have to answer for that choice.

Choose life.


----------



## cutiebe2

Galadriel said:


> I'm assuming you mean certain tax benefits and being able to add one's partner onto health insurance. I think those economic benefits should be addressed individually, for whichever households with adults who want to  put together their finances and even add one another to their insurance. There are perhaps adults living together in households with no sexual relationship, but who would benefit from a financial joining of assets and benefits.
> 
> However, that does not constitute a marriage.
> 
> A marriage is more than just the financial benefits, and this is what they are striving for. Just look at California--it already has generous domestic partnership laws on the books, but why is there still the push for "gay marriage" in California? Because, again, it's more than just the financial benefit that's being sought after. They want the moral and social equivalency of marriage.
> 
> As for the children, studies show that they do best with a mother and father (re: adoption vs. gay adoption). As for gay couples who have children from the result of previous heterosexual relationships, I think a financial arrangement (like the one I described above) could be helpful. As for the child's social and emotional growth, that's going to be rough territory since statistically they're at a disadvantage.
> 
> 
> 
> What about polygamous unions with resulting children? Would you agree or disagree that polygamy should be legalized and recognized as the same as a marriage between one man and one woman because there are children also involved in such unions?



Yes I am speaking of tax benefits, insurance, etc. The case before the court against DOMA is that two women were together for 40 years. Now that one is decreased, the other had to pay 350,000 on a house instead of receiving a tax break. I agree that the "unions" or alternative names and label given have not be sufficient and I honestly don't know how to think about that now. Polygamous unions could be put in the same category. I am unsure of how couples work those situations out because I assume at least one of them is legally married, and certain members of the household automatically have benefits. 

This discussion has brought up new aspects for me to think about


----------



## Galadriel

cutiebe2 said:


> Yes I am speaking of tax benefits, insurance, etc. The case before the court against DOMA is that two women were together for 40 years. Now that one is decreased, the other had to pay 350,000 on a house instead of receiving a tax break. I agree that the "unions" or alternative names and label given have not be sufficient and I honestly don't know how to think about that now.



I think those should be improved or tightened up so that the remaining woman could get the tax benefit . Heck, if we can throw money at failing banks, then why not a tax break for a citizen . 

But to be serious, I think this means we need to re-examine our financial and tax laws when it comes to people in a household who are financially dependent on each other or who wish to join benefits & assets. This could cover a whole range of people. The only glaring thing however, is that whatever we call this arrangement, X, it will not be marriage.



cutiebe2 said:


> Polygamous unions could be put in the same category. I am unsure of how couples work those situations out because I assume at least one of them is legally married, and certain members of the household automatically have benefits.



Whew! I can imagine. I know it sounds cliche, but we are heading down a slippery slope.



cutiebe2 said:


> This discussion has brought up new aspects for me to think about



It's a complex issue, that's for sure .


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Its so disturbing that people are trying to beautify sodomite activity. My mom is a nurse and I've heard some stories so I can assure you its not beautiful. I have also read studies about what it does to the body. Just as said in Romans they are receiving the penalty for their actions in their bodies.... I can't be convinced that 2 men or women sodomizing one another makes the holy and righteous Lord Jesus Christ smile...


----------



## Galadriel

MrsHaseeb said:


> Its so disturbing that people are trying to beautify sodomite activity. My mom is a nurse and I've heard some stories so I can assure you its not beautiful. I have also read studies about what it does to the body. Just as said in Romans they are receiving the penalty for their actions in their bodies.... I can't be convinced that 2 men or women sodomizing one another makes the holy and righteous Lord Jesus Christ smile...



MrsHaseeb my sister's a nurse and she sees so much going on erplexed.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Galadriel said:


> MrsHaseeb my sister's a nurse and she sees so much going on erplexed.



Gala its really sad... I pray some of these people are delivered.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Galadriel said:


> MrsHaseeb my sister's a nurse and she sees so much going on erplexed.



I once read an interesting and very informative article on a catholic education website about it... That's the info people need to be taught instead of these lies about how beautiful it is...


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> @Nice & Wavy ...
> 
> Thank you for posting this, especially the word, 'Institution'.
> 
> Praise God...
> 
> As soon as I read your post, the words to the Wedding Vows began to flow...
> 
> _ "Marriage is an 'Institution' which should not be entered into unadvisedly..." _
> 
> I love these words.   They are striking and make an impact regarding the truth of Marriage.
> 
> 
> Hi Pastor 'A'.   I love you.


Thank you, sis.  Pastor 'A' says to tell you hello and that he loves you too! 



Shimmie said:


> And we love you [email protected]sweetvi


Yes we do!


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Today was the first day that my husband actually read a thread with me.  He wanted me to let you ladies know that he is very impressed with all of you and he said "my wife is in a great company of believers in Jesus!"

He said you ladies are awesome and that he would call on many of you in a minute if he needed help!


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Nice & Wavy said:


> Today was the first day that my husband actually read a thread with me.  He wanted me to let you ladies know that he is very impressed with all of you and he said "my wife is in a great company of believers in Jesus!"
> 
> He said you ladies are awesome and that he would call on many of you in a minute if he needed help!



How sweet


----------



## JaneBond007

Something I realized about homosexuality that keeps me from feeling disgusted at people...sex is just sex, no matter how it occurs.  But how it's acceptable to G-d is very simple.  Man to woman, in a valid marital state, consensual and open to procreation.  I think G-d's plan was to create more believers.  Many can see that as selfish of G-d, but it's beautiful.  I was spring cleaning today and ran across some homework paper somewhere that my kids had at their parochial school.  On it, it said:  

Isaiah 54:13

All your children will be taught by the LORD, and great will be their peace.


No one has to feel dirty about sex.  There is simply one way in which the Creator intended it.  I have many thoughts about homosexual behavior but they may cause a problem here if I delve too deeply into them.  I've posted some points of view on a rabbinic and catholic nature previously and comprehend it.    In those, the person with the tendency is not committing sin for having the state of mind/existence, it's the very act of that is the sin.  It is intrinsically a very disordered existence and that it is very complicated involving the spiritual, physical and psychological of the individual.  Even with that recognition of it's extreme complexity and that we don't know all there is to know about it, the prescription for life by G-d says that it must not be acted out, albeit, it is certainly a cross they bear.

Well, let me also say that people _can_ genuinely love another person deeply of the same sex.  But I believe that the affections the bible warns about for same-sex are *lust*, not love, and are those actions that are carried out through sexual acts.  It does not lend itself to family life in which a child is welcomed to enter naturally.  It goes against our procreative nature.  I mean to say that I don't wish any homosexual person to think they are disdained and that there are turned up noses at them behind these computers.  Rather, there is a simple way for living that is prescribed by the Creator and it's evident all across the globe.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Today was the first day that my husband actually read a thread with me.  He wanted me to let you ladies know that he is very impressed with all of you and he said "my wife is in a great company of believers in Jesus!"
> 
> He said you ladies are awesome and that he would call on many of you in a minute if he needed help!



Nice & Wavy... 

Tell Hubby... 

"I love you Pastor 'A'.   

The two of you are such a Beautiful *'One'*.   

Most would say 'Couple', however the two of you are truly 'One'.    This I know, for a fact.


----------



## Laela

Aw that's sweet.. Big hug for Pastor 'A' ! 



Nice & Wavy said:


> Today was the first day that my husband actually read a thread with me.  He wanted me to let you ladies know that he is very impressed with all of you and he said "my wife is in a great company of believers in Jesus!"
> 
> He said you ladies are awesome and that he would call on many of you in a minute if he needed help!


----------



## Shimmie

Laela said:


> Shimmie, you have no idea...this is so powerfully true on so many levels...like the ocean's current, a force that is continually moving, driven by the Wind. The climate may change, the waves may break, but the water remains water.
> Spiritually, that 'current' runs right through us (man) ....
> 
> *John 7:38* KJV
> _He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water_.



Praise God, Laela, such a powerful Word.   The scripture in John 7:38 is one the scriptures that God blesses me with when I'm ministering in marriages.   

As Wives, women hold their husbands in prayer in their 'bellies', they give life to their husbands in prayer.   From their bellies shall flow rivers of living waters as they intercede for their husbands, who reside in the 'belly' of his wife, day in and day out.     In Jesus' Name, the prayers for her husband just naturally flow, by way of the Holy Spirit, without end, nor breaks.

Yep!   

Prayers without end...


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Praise God, SOME media covered the opposition to SSM:

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/03/scotus-same-sex-marriage-thousands-march-on-mall-86723.html
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301393.htm
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/343987/rallying-marriage-kathryn-jean-lopez
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/...marriage_the_march_for_kids.aspx#.UVNELlt35As
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/2129/abp_cordileones_address_at_the_march_for_marriage.aspx

According to the Daily Mail (UK): "Both sides of the debate were out in force, with Christian opponents *easily outnumbering *advocates for gay marriage."  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Supreme-Court-landmark-case-heard-inside.html


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Making light of hell  A bunch of foolishness


----------



## Belle Du Jour

More video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixly3US6QBQ&feature=player_embedded


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Sign this NOM petition to the Supreme Court: http://www.actright.com/petitions/38


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Making light of hell  A bunch of foolishness



What in the world?   if they only knew that hell is inescapable.   

They are mocking living a gay lifestyle is not sending them to hell.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Sign this NOM petition to the Supreme Court: http://www.actright.com/petitions/38



I signed...


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Belle Du Jour said:


> Making light of hell  A bunch of foolishness


That's the deception of satan...makes people think that hell is fabulous...but just the look on this young man's face reveals that he has been taken over by a demonic spirit.  So sad.....


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Belle Du Jour said:


> Sign this NOM petition to the Supreme Court: http://www.actright.com/petitions/38


Done!


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> More video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixly3US6QBQ&feature=player_embedded



_Which parent do I not need; my Mom or my Dad?_

Did you see her strength and respect and poise and  composure?  

Awesome!   

I have tears in my eyes ...     I'm so impressed and so proud of her.

Thank you so much Lady Belle for sharing this.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> @Nice & Wavy...
> 
> Tell Hubby...
> 
> "I love you Pastor 'A'.
> 
> The two of you are such a Beautiful *'One'*.
> 
> Most would say 'Couple', however the two of you are truly 'One'.    This I know, for a fact.


Thanks, sis!  We are truly 'One' that's for sure and I so appreciate you saying this...thank you 



Laela said:


> Aw that's sweet.. Big hug for Pastor 'A' !


Thanks, sis...and I will give him a big hug for you!!!


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> That's the deception of satan...makes people think that hell is fabulous...but just the look on this young man's face reveals that he has been taken over by a demonic spirit.  So sad.....



Sis, that's the truth.   That spirit is so present and it's so ominous.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thanks, sis!  We are truly 'One' that's for sure and I so appreciate you saying this...thank you
> 
> Thanks, sis...and I will give him a big hug for you!!!



I only told the truth.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Belle Du Jour said:


> More video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixly3US6QBQ&feature=player_embedded


Excellent video...got me all excited!!!


----------



## moniq

Belle Du Jour said:


> More video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixly3US6QBQ&feature=player_embedded


Thanks for sharing this video. I always see kids supporting gay marriage in the media. It was a breath of fresh air to see this brave little girl speak about her mom and dad. Now if we can get more adults in front of these legislatures that would be a blessing.


----------



## Shimmie

Great Article on the Marriage March... 

http://www.tfp.org/current-campaigns/traditional-marriage-crusade/march-for-marriage.html

:Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose:​
*Excerpt:*

_If the national media are to be believed, the two demonstrations should have been a classic clash of cultures. On one side—supposedly on the side of history, one would expect to find a numerous throng composed of “oppressed” racial and other minorities, civil rights activists and youth. On the other, expect to find an entrenched minority, the rich and the upscale establishment intent upon holding on to power.

 This clash did not take place. In fact, anyone who approached the pro-family March for Marriage might conclude that this was the wrong march. Something was seriously wrong with the media script. It seems all the people the media say should be supporting same-sex marriage are on the pro-family side.

 To begin with, just look at the numbers. The pro-marriage throng of well over five thousand clearly outnumbered the 500 or so same-sex “marriage” advocates that lined the sidewalk near the Supreme Court. The pro-homosexual tide that supposedly has turned did not turn up.

 The next striking impression of the pro-marriage crowd was its diversity. There were huge numbers of African Americans who stood for marriage and felt insulted that some sought to equate marriage “equality” to civil rights. There were Hispanics and other ethnic “oppressed” minorities who came out in large numbers dispelling the idea that this bloc is a natural ally of the same-sex “marriage” crowd. 

 And the youth? Plenty of youths of all ages and races. Students, teenagers, boys, girls, infants all were well represented and gave a refreshing tone to the whole affair and indicating that traditional marriage has a future.

 Mainstream America was also present as people from all over the country travelled incredible distances to be present. One could find families of all ages and people from all walks of life who felt the need to be present to defend marriage_

:Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose: :Rose:​


----------



## BlkOnyx488

ClassicBeauty said:


> I try to tell people the same thing. If the Catholic church can refuse to marry or acknowledge a marriage because of divorce, I'm sure they're not worried about being forced to marry gays.
> 
> I don't have a problem with church folks standing against gay marriage. I just hate this particular argument.



If they were forced to perform the marriage they couldn't be forced to do a good job of it.  Can you imagine a minister witnessing on and on about how biblically incorrect it is.  I would not want someone presiding over my marriage who didn't want to be there. 

I can't imagine anyone who would.  when my DH and I were looking for someone to marry us, he spoke with a Chaplain on his Army Base.  The guy acted like marrying us would inconvenience his life, because I was "mildly" pregnant  lol.  We just kept it moving and found a wonderful Minister willing to marry us.


----------



## Shimmie

ClassicBeauty said:
			
		

> I try to tell people the same thing. If the Catholic church can refuse to marry or acknowledge a marriage because of divorce, I'm sure they're not worried about being forced to marry gays.
> 
> I don't have a problem with church folks standing against gay marriage. I just hate this particular argument.






BlkOnyx488 said:


> If they were forced to perform the marriage they couldn't be forced to do a good job of it.  Can you imagine a minister witnessing on and on about how biblically incorrect it is.  I would not want someone presiding over my marriage who didn't want to be there.
> 
> I can't imagine anyone who would.  when my DH and I were looking for someone to marry us, he spoke with a Chaplain on his Army Base.  The guy acted like marrying us would inconvenience his life, because I was "mildly" pregnant  lol.  We just kept it moving and found a wonderful Minister willing to marry us.



The difference with this is that gays are viciously suing anyone who refuses to 'agree' with their lifestyle.    They are purposely soliciting the services of those who do not agree with gay marriage and then attacking them with lawsuits because of their principles.   

Their entire plan is to punish anyone who does not accept homosexuality as a normal lifestyle.   The fact still remains that it is not normal, nor will it ever be; however the gay activists are retaliating by filing lawsuits against them.

What these gay activists don't realize is that thery are building their own gallows.


----------



## Shimmie

cutiebe2 said:


> Yes I am speaking of tax benefits, insurance, etc.
> 
> The case before the court against DOMA is that two women were together for 40 years.
> 
> *Now that one is decreased, the other had to pay 350,000 on a house instead of receiving a tax break. *



This is simply the 'wages of sin' as the consequence of her lifestyle.  

I'm not being condescending by stating this; however it's a fact.  She 'chose' the life and this is the consequence.  Sin does not pay, instead it penalizes and this is her penalty.   

She is not entitled to be 'rewarded' for how she chose to live nor is anyone else in that lifestyle or any other outside of a Holy Union between Man and Wife... period.

Now tere are laws and wills that can be set in place which is what could have been done.  However, redefining marriage just to reward one's sin is not grounds for for the Supreme Court or any other entity on this earth to defile what God has ordained for a man and a woman, not those of the same sex.


----------



## HauteHippie

Done. This whole thread has become sacrilegious.


----------



## Shimmie

HauteHippie said:


> Done. This whole thread has become sacrilegious.



HauteHippie 

The truth is not sacrilegious.  

What IS sacrilegious is the 'notion' and the 'pushing' for gay marriage.

The reality is that gay marriage is the definition of sacrilegious which is:  

_irreverent toward what is or is held to be sacred_

Marriage between One man and One woman is sacred.  Anything 'against' it, is sacrilegious.


----------



## cutiebe2

Shimmie said:


> This is simply the 'wages of sin' as the consequence of her lifestyle.
> 
> I'm not being condescending by stating this; however it's a fact.  She 'chose' the life and this is the consequence.  Sin does not pay, instead it penalizes and this is her penalty.
> 
> She is not entitled to be 'rewarded' for how she chose to live nor is anyone else in that lifestyle or any other outside of a Holy Union between Man and Wife... period.
> 
> *Now tere are laws and wills that can be set in place which is what could have been done.*  However, redefining marriage just to reward one's sin is not grounds for for the Supreme Court or any other entity on this earth to defile what God has ordained for a man and a woman, not those of the same sex.


It is not fact because the issue that I put forth was not concerning marriage, it was concerning taxes and laws. I did not say that she has to be granted marriage, I did not say she has to be granted anything. I did say that it makes no sense for her to pay 350,000 for owning a house with another person, which is what the last part of your post correctly addresses. Since you are speaking from a religious standpoint I will say that homosexual should be judged and punish by God, not by the IRS.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Shimmie said:


> The difference with this is that gays are *viciously suing anyone who refuses to 'agree' with their lifestyle.  *  They are purposely soliciting the services of those who do not agree with gay marriage and then attacking them with lawsuits because of their principles.
> 
> *Their entire plan is to punish anyone who does not accept homosexuality as a normal lifestyle.*   The fact still remains that it is not normal, nor will it ever be; however the gay activists are retaliating by filing lawsuits against them.
> 
> What these gay activists don't realize is that thery are building their own gallows.



This is my main problem.  They want the world to validate their lifestyle.  And while many people are hopping on the bandwagon, I'm not falling for it.  For the people naive enough to think that this won't affect churches who are against, homosexual marriage, think again.   They will be sued for discrimination.  Just you wait.  Wasn't there a lawsuit against a photographer who didn't want to do the wedding of a homosexual couple?  Also, remember what happened when the Chick-Fil-A owner came out and said he supported traditional marriage?  Yeah, we are getting to a point where it's not going to be ok to say you support traditional marriage/traditional family values or else you will be called a bigot.  I will NOT be censored or silenced.


----------



## AtlantaJJ

Belle Du Jour said:


> Making light of hell  A bunch of foolishness



One of the enemy's most successful tricks is blinding people from the  consequences of their choices/actions. This person has no earthly idea about the ramifications of his choices.  One day his eyes will be opened, and then woe unto him if he doesn't have the time or the conscious to repent.


----------



## AtlantaJJ

Belle Du Jour said:


> Sign this NOM petition to the Supreme Court: http://www.actright.com/petitions/38



Done! Belle Du Jour thanks for  posting!  I would love it if they had waaaaay more signatures. It should be more like 20,000,000 signatures vs appx 190,000.


----------



## Galadriel

cutiebe2 said:


> It is not fact because the issue that I put forth was not concerning marriage, it was concerning taxes and laws. I did not say that she has to be granted marriage, I did not say she has to be granted anything. I did say that it makes no sense for her to pay 350,000 for owning a house with another person, which is what the last part of your post correctly addresses. Since you are speaking from a religious standpoint I will say that homosexual should be judged and punish by God, not by the IRS.



I think Shimmie's point was that if they weren't married,just as a man and woman shacking up and getting a house aren't married, then the other person in a heterosexual non-married situation would still have to pay the taxes. The consequence of not being married was having to deal with the tax issue. Likewise, the gay couple would find themselves in the same situation as a fornicating hetero couple.

Was that it, Shimmie? Let me know if I got that right.


----------



## Galadriel

Belle Du Jour said:


> For the people naive enough to think that this won't affect churches who are against, homosexual marriage, think again.   They will be sued for discrimination.  Just you wait.  Wasn't there a lawsuit against a photographer who didn't want to do the wedding of a homosexual couple?  Also, remember what happened when the Chick-Fil-A owner came out and said he supported traditional marriage?  Yeah, we are getting to a point where it's not going to be ok to say you support traditional marriage/traditional family values or else you will be called a bigot.  I will NOT be censored or silenced.



Exactly. They will try to force this on the churches just as they've forced it into other areas of society. Just look at how they're already trying to force contraception and abortion on us through HHS.


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> I think Shimmie's point was that if they weren't married,just as a man and woman shacking up and getting a house aren't married, then the other person in a heterosexual non-married situation would still have to pay the taxes.
> 
> *The consequence of not being married was having to deal with the tax issue. Likewise, the gay couple would find themselves in the same situation as a fornicating hetero couple.*
> 
> *Was that it, Shimmie? Let me know if I got that right*.



  That's it exactly.    Thank you Galadriel 

The wages of her sin is her penalty and there's no escaping that.   She is not entitled to spousal benefits.   And in this case and ONLY   in this case, there is a comparison where both situations bear the same judgement, neither has spousal rights.    

However gays are attempting to  'cheat' the system and have their unions deemed the same as marriage which it simply cannot be.    These activists for gay marriage are trimming all around the crust and killing the pie.  They are destroying the true meaning and beauty, and the sacredness of what Marriage truly is.   There is nothing more beautiful than a Man and Woman who come together as one, Man and Wife, whom no man (no gay activist) can put assunder.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> This is my main problem.  They want the world to validate their lifestyle.  And while many people are hopping on the bandwagon, I'm not falling for it.  For the people naive enough to think that this won't affect churches who are against, homosexual marriage, think again.   They will be sued for discrimination.  Just you wait.  Wasn't there a lawsuit against a photographer who didn't want to do the wedding of a homosexual couple?  Also, remember what happened when the Chick-Fil-A owner came out and said he supported traditional marriage?  Yeah, we are getting to a point where it's not going to be ok to say you support traditional marriage/traditional family values or else you will be called a bigot.  I will NOT be censored or silenced.





Galadriel said:


> Exactly. They will try to force this on the churches just as they've forced it into other areas of society. Just look at how they're already trying to force contraception and abortion on us through HHS.



They've already 'changed' the Bible with the so-called "Queen James Version" ... 

http://queenjamesbible.com/

How silly is this?  They obviously have absolutely no awareness or respect for God.  None whatsoever.   

This was done to 'erase' what God says about homosexality being a sin.   They've purposely eliminated / re-worded all scripture that does not validate their lifestyle.   

Anything that does not 'agree' with their lifestyle is called 'hate', which it is not.   

Look what they did to eHarmony (the first dating sight).  The owner was sued in court by two gay men, because he did not 'cater' to gays.    So he 'had' to agree to put up a section for gays in order to stay in business.  If you go to the eHarmony website, you'll see it under the categories.   

At first, I didn't want to believe that the owner did this, as he is a professed Christian.   Needless to say, I'm extremely disappointed in him for caving in like that, especially knowing the God we Know who will contend with those who contend with us.   

I'm kind and respectful to everyone, but I refuse to cower and bow down in fear because of something as silly as this.   And it is silly.   I refuse to be bulldosed by anyone or anything.  It's not going to happen.


----------



## Angelicus

Hello.

I made a post on my facebook page about me not wanting to go natural and out of nowhere, one of my gay friends (who happens to be married to a nice guy) attacks one of my other facebook friends, solely for having an avatar of a woman stick figure holding hands with a man stick figure... 

Let me repeat that my post was regarding my hair and had nothing to do with gay marriage, straight marriage, marrying a dolphin or whatever. 

This isn't the first time this has happened on Facebook. I am attacked daily solely because I am a Christian. Daily. Daily.

It seems that emotions get high and flaming solely because I am not a fan of sin. Period. 

I wouldn't get beat up so much if I was buddhist, or hindu, or even muslim. As soon as I say that I am Christian, all my gay friends treat me like I was Adolph Hitler.

I have a different destination. It will be a sad day if this all goes down. 

If anything, I'm the one that needs to be protected... more than they do. I'm the minority.

I don't know where all this is coming up. Hard for me to get my feelings together.


----------



## Shimmie

Angelicus said:


> Hello.
> 
> I made a post on my facebook page about me not wanting to go natural and out of nowhere, one of my gay friends (who happens to be married to a nice guy) attacks one of my other facebook friends, solely for having an avatar of a woman stick figure holding hands with a man stick figure...
> 
> Let me repeat that my post was regarding my hair and had nothing to do with gay marriage, straight marriage, marrying a dolphin or whatever.
> 
> This isn't the first time this has happened on Facebook. I am attacked daily solely because I am a Christian. Daily. Daily.
> 
> It seems that emotions get high and flaming solely because I am not a fan of sin. Period.
> 
> I wouldn't get beat up so much if I was buddhist, or hindu, or even muslim. As soon as I say that I am Christian, all my gay friends treat me like I was Adolph Hitler.
> 
> I have a different destination. It will be a sad day if this all goes down.
> 
> If anything, I'm the one that needs to be protected... more than they do. I'm the minority.
> 
> I don't know where all this is coming up. Hard for me to get my feelings together.



Be encouraged Beloved...  

Jesus said that we would be persecuted for His sake.  That 'men' would revile us, because we are connected to Him.

But Jesus also said that we are not to worry for we are Overcomers even more because of Him.  

This persecution goes all the way back to Genesis when satan seduced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit.   After which God told satan that the 'Seed of the Woman' (the Birth of Jesus) would bruise his head.' 

The seed (Jesus) would be conceived, born, live, die and be Resurrected, to remove the power of the enemy (satan).     

Jesus (before He ascended into Heaven), said that 'All power, both in Heaven and in earth, has been given unto us'.    That greater works would we do; casting out demons, healing the sick who would recover; raising the dead... and that the Holy Spirit would be given unto us, to lead and guide us into ALL truth, empowering us to will and to do the will of God our Father.  

Everything that we bear witness to, everything that we are 'attacked' with serves to prove only one thing:   God is still with us, no matter what and we will do His work and overcome by the Word of our Testimony and by the Blood of the Lamb.   

We have our 'Shield of Faith' which quenches every firey (facebook) dart of the enemy.


----------



## AtlantaJJ

Shimmie said:


> Be encouraged Beloved...
> 
> Jesus said that we would be persecuted for His sake.  That 'men' would revile us, because we are connected to Him.
> 
> But Jesus also said that we are not to worry for we are Overcomers even more because of Him.
> 
> This persecution goes all the way back to Genesis when satan seduced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit.   After which God told satan that the 'Seed of the Woman' (the Birth of Jesus) would bruise his head.'
> 
> The seed (Jesus) would be conceived, born, live, die and be Resurrected, to remove the power of the enemy (satan).
> 
> Jesus (before He ascended into Heaven), said that 'All power, both in Heaven and in earth, has been given unto us'.    That greater works would we do; casting out demons, healing the sick who would recover; raising the dead... and that the Holy Spirit would be given unto us, to lead and guide us into ALL truth, empowering us to will and to do the will of God our Father.
> 
> Everything that we bear witness to, everything that we are 'attacked' with serves to prove only one thing:   God is still with us, no matter what and we will do His work and overcome by the Word of our Testimony and by the Blood of the Lamb.
> 
> We have our 'Shield of Faith' which quenches every firey (facebook) dart of the enemy.



Amen Shimmie!!


----------



## AtlantaJJ

Angelicus said:


> Hello.
> 
> I made a post on my facebook page about me not wanting to go natural and out of nowhere, one of my gay friends (who happens to be married to a nice guy) attacks one of my other facebook friends, solely for having an avatar of a woman stick figure holding hands with a man stick figure...
> 
> Let me repeat that my post was regarding my hair and had nothing to do with gay marriage, straight marriage, marrying a dolphin or whatever.
> 
> This isn't the first time this has happened on Facebook. I am attacked daily solely because I am a Christian. Daily. Daily.
> 
> It seems that emotions get high and flaming solely because I am not a fan of sin. Period.
> 
> I wouldn't get beat up so much if I was buddhist, or hindu, or even muslim. As soon as I say that I am Christian, all my gay friends treat me like I was Adolph Hitler.
> 
> I have a different destination. It will be a sad day if this all goes down.
> 
> If anything, I'm the one that needs to be protected... more than they do. I'm the minority.
> 
> I don't know where all this is coming up. Hard for me to get my feelings together.



Jesus told us this would happen, and He also said we would be rewarded! I agree with Shimmie and just wanted to add:

There are several Scriptures that speak about this 

Matthew 5:11-12 - (NKJV)
11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> They've already 'changed' the Bible with the so-called "Queen James Version" ...
> 
> http://queenjamesbible.com/
> 
> How silly is this?  They obviously have absolutely no awareness or respect for God.  None whatsoever.
> 
> This was done to 'erase' what God says about homosexality being a sin.   They've purposely eliminated / re-worded all scripture that does not validate their lifestyle.
> 
> Anything that does not 'agree' with their lifestyle is called 'hate', which it is not.
> 
> Look what they did to eHarmony (the first dating sight).  The owner was sued in court by two gay men, because he did not 'cater' to gays.    So he 'had' to agree to put up a section for gays in order to stay in business.  If you go to the eHarmony website, you'll see it under the categories.
> 
> At first, I didn't want to believe that the owner did this, as he is a professed Christian.   Needless to say, I'm extremely disappointed in him for caving in like that, especially knowing the God we Know who will contend with those who contend with us.
> 
> I'm kind and respectful to everyone, but I refuse to cower and bow down in fear because of something as silly as this.   And it is silly.   I refuse to be bulldosed by anyone or anything.  It's not going to happen.


Sis, read what scriptures they actually changed to suit the gay lifestyle....wow

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BWDMLII/&tag=qjv-20#reader_B00BWDMLII

It wouldn't allow me to copy and paste, but this is the reader for the book (I will not call it a bible) on amazon.

I did not know about the dating site...i'm sure we will see this a lot more...lovers of money more than lovers of God...


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Sis, read what scriptures they actually changed to suit the gay lifestyle....wow
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BWDMLII/&tag=qjv-20#reader_B00BWDMLII
> 
> It wouldn't allow me to copy and paste, but this is the reader for the book (I will not call it a bible) on amazon.
> 
> I did not know about the dating site...i'm sure we will see this a lot more...lovers of money more than lovers of God...



Thanks Precious Wavy... 

Makes no sense at all    However, God's grace is not upon this and it will not prosper in Jesus' Name.


----------



## Shimmie

AtlantaJJ said:


> Jesus told us this would happen, and He also said we would be rewarded! I agree with Shimmie and just wanted to add:
> 
> There are several Scriptures that speak about this
> 
> Matthew 5:11-12 - (NKJV)
> 11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.



Thank you for posting this scripture.  It blesses me more than I can say.   Again, thank you AtlantaJJ.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:
			
		

> I did not know about the dating site...i'm sure we will see this a lot more...lovers of money more than lovers of God...



Nice & Wavy...

Here's the lawsuit settlement that eHarmony made.   Actually they 'compromised' and abandoned their stand upon the priniples of God.  

I'll be honest, I'm *more annoyed *with eHarmony than I am with the gay lawsuit.  How dare they surrender and compromise the faith.   It's the last sentence of this report (Highlighted in dark red) that truly, truly, TRULY angers me that this man sold out.   And for what?  To whom does he give glory?   

Here's the Press Release from eHarmony.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

*eHarmony, Inc. Settles Class Action Lawsuit Over 
Same-Sex Matching *

PASADENA, Calif. – January 26, 2010 – eHarmony, Inc. has entered into an agreement to settle a class action lawsuit brought against the company. The action, Carlson, et. al., v. eHarmony, Inc., et al., was filed in 2007 on behalf of a class of gay, lesbian and bisexual individuals in California who alleged that they were unable to use the company’s website to be matched with same-sex partners. 

The company has not admitted any wrongdoing or liability. The proposed settlement is subject to approval by the Superior Court of the State of California, County of Los Angeles, following notice to members of the class. 

In March 2009, eHarmony launched a same-sex matching service called Compatible Partners. The settlement agreement includes provisions by which eHarmony will modify and maintain certain features on the eHarmony.com and Compatible Partners websites to make them even more welcoming to people who seek same-sex matches. 

These provisions include:

*•Maintain the Compatible Partners website and the ability for people to select “man seeking man” or “woman seeking woman” options from a drop-down menu on the eHarmony.com homepage

•Identify Compatible Partners as a service “Brought to you by eHarmony” instead of “Powered by eHarmony”

•Display eHarmony’s trademark logo on the Compatible Partners page

•Indicate in the URL line, HTML line or a tab to first-time Compatible Partners users that they are on an eHarmony website

•Include a “Gay Dating” link on the bottom of eHarmony.com alongside other links to “Jewish Dating,” “Senior Dating,” “Hispanic dating,” and the like*

The Settlement Agreement also provides for individuals seeking both same-sex matches and opposite-sex matches to pay a single subscription fee. 

Additionally under the settlement, all claims will be dismissed and a $2 million settlement fund will be established. Approximately $500,000 will be designated as a fund for claims by the class. Any unclaimed portion of this fund will be donated to a charity designated by the court. Fees to the class counsel will be awarded by the court. 

Terms for distribution of the settlement fund and other settlement terms will be disclosed in a notice to be sent to class members after preliminary court approval. 

“We are delighted that eHarmony is making its remarkable technology available to the gay and lesbian community in a way that is more welcoming and inclusive,” said Todd Schneider of Schneider Wallace Cottrell Brayton Konecky LLP, co-lead counsel for the plaintiff class.

“eHarmony can be proud of the reputation that it has built as the best dating site on the Internet and it can be proud of the relationship that it is building with the gay and lesbian community,” said Jeremy Pasternak of the Law Office of Jeremy Pasternak, co-lead counsel for the plaintiff class.

“This is an excellent agreement. It is gratifying to see eHarmony, Inc. support matching for the gay and lesbian community, which makes the Internet a more open place,” said Joshua Konecky of Schneider Wallace, co-lead counsel for the plaintiff class.

*“eHarmony is happy to move beyond this litigation so it can continue building Compatible Partners into a successful service,” said Robert Freitas of Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP, outside counsel to the company.*

I forgot the link:   

http://www.eharmony.com/press-release/25/

-------------------------------------------

They are happy to build the gay site into a sucessful service....   

   I can't even utter what I want to say....   

I gonna say it anyway.   eharmony is a weakling.


----------



## Laela

Just catching up on this thread.. love this video! From the mouth of babes..
_
Un hombre...una mujer!_






Belle Du Jour said:


> More video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixly3US6QBQ&feature=player_embedded


----------



## divya

Marriage should be completely removed from the realms of government. It is far too intertwined with religion. The state should not be deciding on such a matter at all. If something must be recognized by the government, it should be civil unions - for all. Marriage should be left to religious institutions or other non-governmental organizations. Mark 12:17 _And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him._ 

However, I believe that it is wrong (and unnecessary) to force religious beliefs through government, as it is not condoned within Scripture. The Bible says to _"Choose YOU this day whom YE will serve,"_ not you choose for other people. I thank God for the opportunity to choose Him and His ways. God's definitions and standards remain unchanged no matter what any government states on any issue because His law is supreme. _"For I am the Lord, I change not"_ Malachi 3:6. We must share the truth - including that homosexual behavior is sin - by teaching, preaching, LOVING and LIVING. May the light of Christians shine bright that all, including homosexuals, will be brought to Him._ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance."_ 2 Peter 3:9. God can change anyone, and our greatest witness to all is our life.

_"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it gives light to all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."_ Matthew 5:14-16


----------



## Galadriel

So you're saying Christians have no civic duty and can't vote, petition their government or support laws that promote good?





divya said:


> Marriage should be completely removed from the realms of government. It is far too intertwined with religion. The state should not be deciding on such a matter at all. If something must be recognized by the government, it should be civil unions - for all. Marriage should be left to religious institutions or other non-governmental organizations. Mark 12:17 _And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him._
> 
> However, I believe that it is wrong (and unnecessary) to force religious beliefs through government, as it is not condoned within Scripture. The Bible says to _"Choose YOU this day whom YE will serve,"_ not you choose for other people. I thank God for the opportunity to choose Him and His ways. God's definitions and standards remain unchanged no matter what any government states on any issue because His law is supreme. _"For I am the Lord, I change not"_ Malachi 3:6. We must share the truth - including that homosexual behavior is sin - by teaching, preaching, LOVING and LIVING. May the light of Christians shine bright that all, including homosexuals, will be brought to Him._ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance."_ 2 Peter 3:9. God can change anyone, and our greatest witness to all is our life.
> 
> _"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it gives light to all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."_ Matthew 5:14-16


----------



## divya

Galadriel said:


> So you're saying Christians have no civic duty and can't vote, petition their government or support laws that promote good?



Honestly, not sure where you are getting that from my post...


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> @Nice & Wavy...
> 
> Here's the lawsuit settlement that eHarmony made.   Actually they 'compromised' and abandoned their stand upon the priniples of God.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm *more annoyed *with eHarmony than I am with the gay lawsuit.  How dare they surrender and compromise the faith.   It's the last sentence of this report (Highlighted in dark red) that truly, truly, TRULY angers me that this man sold out.   And for what?  To whom does he give glory?
> 
> Here's the Press Release from eHarmony.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *eHarmony, Inc. Settles Class Action Lawsuit Over
> Same-Sex Matching *
> 
> PASADENA, Calif. – January 26, 2010 – eHarmony, Inc. has entered into an agreement to settle a class action lawsuit brought against the company. The action, Carlson, et. al., v. eHarmony, Inc., et al., was filed in 2007 on behalf of a class of gay, lesbian and bisexual individuals in California who alleged that they were unable to use the company’s website to be matched with same-sex partners.
> 
> The company has not admitted any wrongdoing or liability. The proposed settlement is subject to approval by the Superior Court of the State of California, County of Los Angeles, following notice to members of the class.
> 
> In March 2009, eHarmony launched a same-sex matching service called Compatible Partners. The settlement agreement includes provisions by which eHarmony will modify and maintain certain features on the eHarmony.com and Compatible Partners websites to make them even more welcoming to people who seek same-sex matches.
> 
> These provisions include:
> 
> *•Maintain the Compatible Partners website and the ability for people to select “man seeking man” or “woman seeking woman” options from a drop-down menu on the eHarmony.com homepage
> 
> •Identify Compatible Partners as a service “Brought to you by eHarmony” instead of “Powered by eHarmony”
> 
> •Display eHarmony’s trademark logo on the Compatible Partners page
> 
> •Indicate in the URL line, HTML line or a tab to first-time Compatible Partners users that they are on an eHarmony website
> 
> •Include a “Gay Dating” link on the bottom of eHarmony.com alongside other links to “Jewish Dating,” “Senior Dating,” “Hispanic dating,” and the like*
> 
> The Settlement Agreement also provides for individuals seeking both same-sex matches and opposite-sex matches to pay a single subscription fee.
> 
> Additionally under the settlement, all claims will be dismissed and a $2 million settlement fund will be established. Approximately $500,000 will be designated as a fund for claims by the class. Any unclaimed portion of this fund will be donated to a charity designated by the court. Fees to the class counsel will be awarded by the court.
> 
> Terms for distribution of the settlement fund and other settlement terms will be disclosed in a notice to be sent to class members after preliminary court approval.
> 
> “We are delighted that eHarmony is making its remarkable technology available to the gay and lesbian community in a way that is more welcoming and inclusive,” said Todd Schneider of Schneider Wallace Cottrell Brayton Konecky LLP, co-lead counsel for the plaintiff class.
> 
> “eHarmony can be proud of the reputation that it has built as the best dating site on the Internet and it can be proud of the relationship that it is building with the gay and lesbian community,” said Jeremy Pasternak of the Law Office of Jeremy Pasternak, co-lead counsel for the plaintiff class.
> 
> “This is an excellent agreement. It is gratifying to see eHarmony, Inc. support matching for the gay and lesbian community, which makes the Internet a more open place,” said Joshua Konecky of Schneider Wallace, co-lead counsel for the plaintiff class.
> 
> *“eHarmony is happy to move beyond this litigation so it can continue building Compatible Partners into a successful service,” said Robert Freitas of Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP, outside counsel to the company.*
> 
> I forgot the link:
> 
> http://www.eharmony.com/press-release/25/
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> 
> They are happy to build the gay site into a successful service....
> 
> I can't even utter what I want to say....
> 
> I gonna say it anyway.   eharmony is a weakling.


Thank you for sharing this...I don't want to even say anything but this..."what you compromise to keep, you will lose!"


----------



## Galadriel

divya said:


> Honestly, not sure where you are getting that from my post...



When you said this:



> I believe that it is wrong (and unnecessary) to force religious beliefs  through government, as it is not condoned within Scripture.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Just ran across this video on YouTube.  This is going too far. Please pray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKfiH9FDZuw&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## Shimmie

MrsHaseeb said:


> Just ran across this video on YouTube.  This is going too far. Please pray.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKfiH9FDZuw&feature=youtube_gdata_player



This is one of the many times when I wish that I could type an audio response and not a written one.   The difference is that the audio would indeed show my compassion and grief over this child.    

What the media doesn't share is that transexuals still grow up 'confused'.   They end up in '_quote_' '_homosexual_ relationships'.   Meaning a male to female ends up still being attracted to a female; a female to male still ends up being attracted to a male.    Somewhere along the line, their genders still dictate how they were born.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Shimmie said:


> This is one of the many times when I wish that I could type an audio response and not a written one.   The difference is that the audio would indeed show my compassion and grief over this child.
> 
> What the media doesn't share is that transexuals still grow up 'confused'.   They end up in 'quote' 'homosexual relationships'.   Meaning a male to female ends up still being attracted to a female; a female to male still ends up being attracted to a male.    Somewhere along the line, their genders still dictate how they were born.



The enemy is doing this to make sure these people are never delivered. If he normalizes it and shuts up the Christians he can keep these people's souls bound and tortured. "He" (I utterly refuse to say she!) is just a child, yet has been overtaken by this spirit so much that it has embedded itself into every fabric of this child's being.. so much so that "he" is convinced that "he" was born in the wrong body and has all the character traits of a girl. But yet, Jesus Christ gave himself to redeem us. There is hope for this child in Jesus the Christ!


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Another example of the gay lobby in action:

The chief diversity officer at Galludet University was suspended after a coworker asked her about signing an anti-SSM petition.  Her lesbian co-worker reported her. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Fukpks-u4&list=UURZ7bIOpYN7C1evpbKPvnEA&index=14

She was reinstated after 3 months: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/08/angela-mccaskill-reinstated-gallaudet_n_2432838.html

 See what I mean?


----------



## JaneBond007

divya said:


> Marriage should be completely removed from the realms of government. It is far too intertwined with religion. The state should not be deciding on such a matter at all. If something must be recognized by the government, it should be civil unions - for all. Marriage should be left to religious institutions or other non-governmental organizations. Mark 12:17 _And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him._




That's what I believe as well.  But the SSM lobbyists are so intertwined with the terminology, they will not let it go now.  They can have civil unions, if so desired...but what is this obsession with calling it a "marriage?"  We know...the ulterior motive, the agenda.  I think we're 300 years too late for this to have been protected.   Alas...


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Another example of the gay lobby in action:
> 
> The chief diversity officer at Galludet University was suspended after a coworker asked her about signing an anti-SSM petition.  Her lesbian co-worker reported her.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Fukpks-u4&list=UURZ7bIOpYN7C1evpbKPvnEA&index=14
> 
> She was reinstated after 3 months: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/08/angela-mccaskill-reinstated-gallaudet_n_2432838.html
> 
> See what I mean?



Oh yeah... this news was big; around the time of the Chick Fila news.  

God says He despises unjust measures and weights.   In cases like this, the measure and weights are unjust as the gay activists are saying 'we' as Believers are not entitled to 'our' faith, yet they are the only ones allowed to worship their devil and get away with it.  

HA!   Really?


----------



## Shimmie

MrsHaseeb said:


> The enemy is doing this to make sure these people are never delivered. If he normalizes it and shuts up the Christians he can keep these people's souls bound and tortured.
> 
> "He" (I utterly refuse to say she!) is just a child, yet has been overtaken by this spirit so much that it has embedded itself into every fabric of this child's being.. so much so that "he" is convinced that "he" was born in the wrong body and has all the character traits of a girl. But yet, Jesus Christ gave himself to redeem us. There is hope for this child in Jesus the Christ!



 MrsHaseeb...  the deception is overwhelming and truly the love of Jesus is hope beyond hope to deliver this precious child, in Jesus' Name.    I surely pray so and for other children who have been taken 'hostage' by this spirit of deception.   God wants them whole and to be as He has such created them.


----------



## Shimmie

* For: Tuesday, April 2, 2013*

*Word Ministries looks forward to having you join with us at 8:00 pm ET tonight as we pray for the Supreme Court. *

Come and join us for a wonderful time of prayer and then post your comments on the Word Ministries Facebook page and Twitter. We would love to hear from you.

Tonight at 8:00 pm ET, First Fruits Prayer Gathering, hosted by Pastor Jim Tippin, one of Word Ministries board members, will moderate the phone conference prayer time.  

Here at Word Ministries we desire to see people set  free from bondages, and to help all of us draw into a closer relationship with God, with our self, and with others. 

We invite you to join this prayer group TONIGHT by calling:  

209-255-1000 

Entering code number 610673#

Sincerely,
Germaine, Jim & David

Word Ministries Inc

PO Box 289
Good Hope, GA
30641
US


----------



## Belle Du Jour

More on dishonesty in the media surrounding the coverage of the march for marriage:
http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/04/01/the-newsworthy-march-for-marriage-that-did-not-make-the-news/


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> More on dishonesty in the media surrounding the coverage of the march for marriage:
> http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/04/01/the-newsworthy-march-for-marriage-that-did-not-make-the-news/



This is a wonderful article...   

So glad I read this.  Thank you Precious Belle


----------



## Shimmie

So much confusion.   Remember the 'Pregnant Man' who is NOT a man but a woman.  

I didn't know this person had THREE children via artificial insemination.   He is now trying to obtain a divorce in order to marry his now new GIRLFRIEND. 

OH Wait...there's more...   

Note:  I am Seriously rolling my eyes with this...  

The judge has sense.  Because this 'woman' cannot prove that she was not still a woman when she first married the first woman, she is not therefore able to have her divorce petition recognized.   This is because the state of Arizona where they reside does not recognize gay marriage.  

Okay this is where it's really confusing... If Arizona does not recognize gay marriage, then this woman (who thinks she's a man) really isn't married in the first place; therefore filing for a divorce is redundant.   

Anyhoo....

Here's the 'lank'  

http://au.news.yahoo.com/odd/a/-/od...gnant-man-to-appeal-ruling-rejecting-divorce/

This was on my yahoo feed as I was checking my office emails.  I need to be in bed, however the article proves one thing for sure.   In relating to this thread's subject, it is beyond proven and beyond obvious that the Supreme Court cannot 'fix' this.    

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE ACTIVISTS TRY TO ARGUE.... IT's AIN'T GONNA FIX THEIR LIVES ... Period!   

Oh and speaking of 'Periods'.   *This man  still wears a Tampon!* 

PLEASE!   

It is written... I kid not...  

This 'man'  has a monthly cycle... BY CHOICE!   She kept her ovaries so that she can continue to conceive and have more children.  

NOW.... IT is obvious that this woman does not realize that REAL MEN DO NOT LIKE PERIODS!     Neither do REAL MEN desire to become pregnant!

I'm speaking facts...facts of truth.   

So to the Supreme Court.  Do you truly want to increase this confusion in the human race?   Do you really and truly wish to have this 'blood' upon your hands?    

We cannot redefine God's Design on humanity and Marriage.  

I'm still tryna' figure out what man in his right mind would want to have a monthy cycle?    


_Shimmie has left the building...._


----------



## Galadriel

^^^^And they want us to say this is JUST like a man and a woman marrying according to NATURE and God's Design?


----------



## JaneBond007

> Oh and speaking of 'Periods'. This man still wears a Tampon!



6 seconds into this thread and ....confusion...what?  LOLOL


----------



## MrsHaseeb

http://www.rethinksociety.com/government/pedophilia-is-a-sexual-orientation-under-ca-bill/

Lord Jesus protect the children!!! How debased does a persons mind have to get to try and pass a law like this?


----------



## divya

Galadriel said:


> When you said this:



Hmmm, guess that just comes off a bit strange. Did you read the entire post? Again, not seeing that at all, particularly as it should be read with the rest of the post to provide context.


----------



## divya

JaneBond007 said:


> That's what I believe as well.  But the SSM lobbyists are so intertwined with the terminology, they will not let it go now.  They can have civil unions, if so desired...but what is this obsession with calling it a "marriage?"  We know...the ulterior motive, the agenda.  I think we're 300 years too late for this to have been protected.   Alas...



That there is the issue. It was allowed within the realms of the government, where it should have never been. Marriages should be left to religious/nongovernmental groups. But even still, there will be those who disregard Scripture. At the end of the day, no earthly law can change the laws of heaven.


----------



## Galadriel

divya said:


> Hmmm, guess that just comes off a bit strange. Did you read the entire post? Again, not seeing that at all, particularly as it should be read with the rest of the post to provide context.



I read the entire post.

While my opposition to "gay marriage" is rooted in my Christian worldview, I think it's disingenuous to dismiss a Christian's stance on a social/political issue just because their stance is rooted in their worldview or moral framework. The whole, "You shouldn't push your religious beliefs on others" is a strawman, that is used to tell Christians to be quiet and accept the moral and social decay surrounding them. 

Also, I think such a statement presupposes pluralism--that one moral precept is just as good as another, despite them conflicting or contradicting each other. I believe morality is objective, and when something wrong or evil is being permitted or advocated, people will always suffer. Murder is immoral, and is also illegal, as well as stealing, lying under oath, and defrauding people. It's only when the particular immorality or sin is something a person wants to justify or hold onto do people start crying "Stop pushing your religion on me!"

I am not advocating for public laws banning meat on Fridays during Lent or a mandate for everyone to believe in the Immaculate Conception.

I am advocating that marriage serves a purpose in society, which is joining a man and woman, who procreate and produce the basic unit of society--the family, and that it is in the best interest of society and the State to protect and promote it. I also argue that marriage is an INHERENTLY heterosexual institution based on the complementary nature of man and woman united in this bond, and a gay union can never be the same as it, nor fulfill the purpose of it. I also argue that marriage is a pre-political institution, existing before the State, and the government is overstepping its boundaries and authority by trying to redefine what a marriage is.


----------



## divya

Galadriel said:


> I read the entire post.
> 
> While my opposition to "gay marriage" is rooted in my Christian worldview, I think it's disingenuous to dismiss a Christian's stance on a social/political issue just because their stance is rooted in their worldview or moral framework. The whole, "You shouldn't push your religious beliefs on others" is a strawman, that is used to tell Christians to be quiet and accept the moral and social decay surrounding them.
> 
> Also, I think such a statement presupposes pluralism--that one moral precept is just as good as another, despite them conflicting or contradicting each other. I believe morality is objective, and when something wrong or evil is being permitted or advocated, people will always suffer. Murder is immoral, and is also illegal, as well as stealing, lying under oath, and defrauding people. It's only when the particular immorality or sin is something a person wants to justify or hold onto do people start crying "Stop pushing your religion on me!"
> 
> I am not advocating for public laws banning meat on Fridays during Lent or a mandate for everyone to believe in the Immaculate Conception.
> 
> I am advocating that marriage serves a purpose in society, which is joining a man and woman, who procreate and produce the basic unit of society--the family, and that it is in the best interest of society and the State to protect and promote it. I also argue that marriage is an INHERENTLY heterosexual institution based on the complementary nature of man and woman united in this bond, and a gay union can never be the same as it, nor fulfill the purpose of it. I also argue that marriage is a pre-political institution, existing before the State, and the government is overstepping its boundaries and authority by trying to redefine what a marriage is.



The point of my post is that it is a Christian stance to recognize the God-given opportunity to choose His way or not and based on that to teach and preach the truth, including that homosexuality and gay marriage is sin. That is the example we have in Jesus Christ.

Where does that say Christians show be quiet and accept the moral decay around them? That is what seems strange and also disingeneous to me. Or is it not enough to share the truth outside of pushing religion - since your stance is rooted in a Christian worldview - through civil law? 

The difference between gay marriage and things like murder, lying, stealing is that the former does not infringe on the right of others as citizens, especially to follow God's laws according to the dictates of our consciences. Murder and the other wrongful actions, do. That is the major distinction here. 

I strongly agree with you regarding the definition of marriage. However, it is simply my personal understanding of the Scripture (and underneath that civil law), that force our religious understanding of marriage via the government is wrong. It would be one thing if the opposition was not rooted in religion, but in the vast majority of cases, it is. Thus, where their choices do not infringe on our rights, people must choose for themselves whether or not to follow God's way.


----------



## Shimmie

MrsHaseeb said:


> http://www.rethinksociety.com/government/pedophilia-is-a-sexual-orientation-under-ca-bill/
> 
> Lord Jesus protect the children!!! How debased does a persons mind have to get to try and pass a law like this?




*Pedophilia Is A Sexual Orientation Under CA Bill*

What in the HELL ? ! ?  YES... Shimmie said it!   *HELL! * Without hesitation nor a stutter...

These people are absolutely out of control...and straight to hell they are headed, under the boughs of it, the searing burning coals, brimstones.

And all because of this mess?

This has me in tears.  See, I've said this, and along with others who are defending Marriage; that the gay agenda is giving pedophiles leverage to harm, molest and destroy innocent little children.  

I'm upset!  I'm in tears!  And I'm not allowing this to occur.   

People are out of their stupid minds.  

Ladies please forgive me for using the word hell out of context.  I'm not deleting it from my post, as it would be a lie that I did not mean it.   What I don't mean is to offend anyone.  

This government is crazy and Ima' say something that will not please many, however, President Obama needs to step away from this gay agenda as it is not wise to support an agenda with such dangerous attachments and tragic repercussions which are inevitable to follow.    He's a foolish leader with far too many who idolize him as a prize, yet his works; his fruit is withered.    He has full power to put an immediate stop to this California law protecting pedophiles.   Otherwise he is not producing good fruit as a leader. He is not protecting children.

Afterall, Jesus indeed did curse the fig tree for not bearing fruit when it was needed.  The fig tree did not produce when it in it's season.  President Obama is in his season, yet the fruit he bears is bringing harm and destruction to humanity and saddest of all, young innocent children of the now and of the future.  

He needs to get right with God and lead righteously, otherwise he brings a curse upon himself, his very own doing.   God's Word says clearly, 'Do Justly'; follow God's laws.    There were many kings (leaders) before him some were good/some were bad.   If he were to read the book of Kings and Chronicles, and Proverbs, he would know better.   I continue to pray for him.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Shimmie said:


> Pedophilia Is A Sexual Orientation Under CA Bill
> 
> What in the HELL ? ! ?  YES... Shimmie said it!   HELL!  Without hesitation nor a stutter...
> 
> These people are absolutely out of control...and straight to hell they are headed, under the boughs of it, the searing burning coals, brimstones.
> 
> And all because of this mess?
> 
> This has me in tears.  See, I've said this, and along with others who are defending Marriage; that the gay agenda is giving pedophiles leverage to harm, molest and destroy innocent little children.
> 
> I'm upset!  I'm in tears!  And I'm not allowing this to occur.
> 
> People are out of their stupid minds.
> 
> Ladies please forgive me for using the word hell out of context.  I'm not deleting it from my post, as it would be a lie that I did not mean it.   What I don't mean is to offend anyone.
> 
> This government is crazy and Ima' say something that will not please many, however, President Obama needs to step away from this gay agenda as it is not wise to support an agenda with such dangerous attachments and tragic repercussions which are inevitable to follow.    He's a foolish leader with far too many who idolize him as a prize, yet his works; his fruit is withered.    He has full power to put an immediate stop to this California law protecting pedophiles.   Otherwise he is not producing good fruit as a leader. He is not protecting children.
> 
> Afterall, Jesus indeed did curse the fig tree for not bearing fruit when it was needed.  The fig tree did not produce when it in it's season.  President Obama is in his season, yet the fruit he bears is bringing harm and destruction to humanity and saddest of all, young innocent children of the now and of the future.
> 
> He needs to get right with God and lead righteously, otherwise he brings a curse upon himself, his very own doing.   God's Word says clearly, 'Do Justly'; follow God's laws.    There were many kings (leaders) before him some were good/some were bad.   If he were to read the book of Kings and Chronicles, and Proverbs, he would know better.   I continue to pray for him.



Shimmie I am not offended by your use of the word... The pits Hell is just where such a law has originated. A disproportionate number of pedophiles are homosexual.. this alone should be enough to tell people that homosexuality is nothing more than a perverse spirit that seeks to corrupt and destroy everything it encounters. Its the spirit using the people as vehicles to accomplish the will of the devil ..
All the people being brain washed to accept homosexuality as normal  do not realize it brings with a curse that will effect everyone. The story of Sodom and Gomorroah and the story of the tribe of Benjamin in Judges 19 is where society is headed with such laws being passed. I prayed against it this morning... As far as the president... The only way he would be an advocate for not only this type of stuff [pedophilia, homosexuality, and murder (abortion and partial birth abortion)] is because he is probably reprobate and overtaken with such preverse spirits. It is not normal for a person to support the things he supports.


----------



## Shimmie

MrsHaseeb said:


> Shimmie I am not offended by your use of the word...
> 
> The pits Hell is just where such a law has originated. A disproportionate number of pedophiles are homosexual.. this alone should be enough to tell people that homosexuality is nothing more than a perverse spirit that seeks to corrupt and destroy everything it encounters. Its the spirit using the people as vehicles to accomplish the will of the devil ..
> 
> All the people being brain washed to accept homosexuality as normal  do not realize it brings with a curse that will effect everyone. The story of Sodom and Gomorroah and the story of the tribe of Benjamin in Judges 19 is where society is headed with such laws being passed. I prayed against it this morning....



MrsHaseeb... Thanks Love...   I still apologize because I do not intend to retract my statement.   You're precious and I appreciate you and everyone else here. 

Let's look at this from the article... This is so grieving:  

_Republicans attempted to add an amendment specifying that, “pedophilia is not covered as an orientation.” 

However, the Democrats defeated the amendment. 

Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-FL) stated that all alternative sexual lifestyles should be protected under the law, and accordingly decided that pedophilia is a sexual orientation that should be equally as embraced as homosexuality.

“This language is so broad and vague, it arguably could include all forms of sexual orientation, including pedophilia,” said Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute. 

“It’s not just the orientation that is protected—the conduct associated with the orientation is protected as well.”_

What is WRONG with these people defending this behaviour?  WHAT?

As the president of this country, I expect Mr. Obama to immediately, without a trip or a stutter of his feet, to get on the plane and put an immediate end to this tragedy.   He has the power to override it and say NO!    No votes, no elections, no petitions are necessary to see that this is just wrong and needs to be stopped immediately.   

The gays are going to lose their battle.  People are not going to tolerate this. And it is NOT discrimination to put this sin to an end.  It's for the safety of other lives and lives being of innocent children and adults who have disabiities who have been molested far more than it's been reported.  

One reason I keep bringing up our president is because his support of gay marriage only validates sexual perverts.  The law which protects pedophiles only confirms this.   In addtion, it is the acts of pedophiles upon so many children which has lead these children to grow into adults with sexual disfunctions, yes, homosexuality which is indeed a sexual disfuction.


----------



## Shimmie

And this.... 

*Who Cares If Pedophilia Is A Sexual Orientation?*

It also means that, if pedophilia is a sexual orientation, that discrimination laws also apply to pedophiles. That means you cannot block a pedophile from being a preschool teacher or any other high-risk occupation.

Recently, a United States District Court Judge, William Shubb, sided with Pacific Justice Institute (PJI) by granting their plaintiffs a preliminary injunction against the legislation, which is known as California SB 1172.

“Because the court finds that SB 1172 is subject to strict scrutiny and is unlikely to satisfy this standard, the court finds that plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits of their claims based on violations of their rights to freedom of speech under the First Amendment,” wrote Judge Shubb.

“This victory sends a clear signal to all those who feel they can stifle religious freedom, free speech, and the rights of parents without being contested,” said PJI President, Brad Dacus. 

*“We at PJI are ready to fight this battle all the way to the Supreme Court, if necessary. *

“This will be a long, grueling battle with tremendous consequences for generations to come. We are grateful to those who are willing to support us in this critical time to preserve our freedoms and protect our children,” he continued.

Thankfully, for the time being, this legislation has been blocked, but many questions still remain. 

This bill establishes a dangerous precedent for normalizing the behavior of pedophiles while stripping parents of their rights and peace of mind. 

One can certainly make the argument that homosexuals are “born that way,” and we generally would not dispute that. 

_However, when we have legislators that want to extend the “born that way” defense to pedophiles, this crosses a very dangerous line._

------------------

I'm noticing the 'Supreme Court' comment above.    Yeah... okay.   

Also I've noticed:

_Born that way_ is the evil weapon for this entire battle... 

Here's a True Fact: 

Everything the gay agenda has used as a weapon is beginning to 'hit' back at them for a huge loss.    

The evils and the dangers of this lifestyle are being exposed with no where t hide.   People who support gay marriage and call it discrimination not to, are having to endure a HUGE wake-up call.   The gay activists are losing ground upon which they never stood upon in the first place.  Their artillery is faulty And they have no 'back-up' plan.   

For NOW the pedophiles want 'equal rights' and they are using the very same arguments that the gay agenda has hearalded and there's no way to win for either of them for they are one in the same in this battle, meaning the gay activists have something attached to them for a piggyback ride that cannot be shaken off.


----------



## Renewed1

I just saw on the news that several black preachers here in Chicago is for gay marriage.  It seems Bishop Carlton Pearson is also apart of this.

Sad.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/38933-the-problem-with-rob-bells-gospel
*
The Problem with Rob Bells Gospel *(and those like him) 

12:30PM EDT 4/3/2013 J. LEE GRADY

When former evangelical pastor Rob Bell published his bombshell book Love Wins in 2011, his Michigan megachurch reportedly lost 3,000 members. They scattered quickly because Bell questioned the existence of a literal hell. His point was that Christians need to develop a nicer message with a lot less judgment. But his solution was to throw out 2,000 years of Christian theological tradition.

Then last month, Bell made a more stunning announcement from a pulpit in California. He told people gathered at Grace Cathedral, an Episcopal church in San Francisco, that he supports same-sex marriage. His primary reason, he said, was that culture has changed and we need to adapt.

“I am for fidelity,” Bell said. “I am for love, whether it’s a man and a woman, a woman and a woman, a man and a man … This is the world that we are living in, and we need to affirm people wherever they are.”

I can appreciate Bell’s desire to affirm people. And I agree that some Christians come off sounding unbelievably harsh when we talk about homosexuality. But Bell didn’t have anything affirming to say to the evangelical Christians who were his support base during the early years of his ministry. He trashed us. And he was judgmental about it.

Describing evangelicals, Bell predicted our doom in his March 17 remarks: “We are witnessing the death of a particular subculture that doesn’t work. I think there is a very narrow, politically intertwined, culturally ghettoized, evangelical subculture that was told, ‘We’re gonna change the thing,’ and they haven’t. And they actually have turned away lots of people.”

If Bell wants to come off as affirming and non-judgmental, he should use kinder words when describing a group of Christians who make up an estimated 30 percent of the U.S. population. Bell seems to be saying: “I’m right, and you evangelicals are irrelevant.” He’s ready to officiate at our funeral.

In response, I offer three points:

1. It’s actually OK to be narrow. Bell accuses us of being narrow. But wasn’t it Jesus who told us the way to salvation is narrow? He said: “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it” (Matt. 7:13, NASB). Besides the fact that Jesus refers to hell in that passage, He also says we have to be narrow to avoid it.

Righteousness requires limitations. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for being judgmental on one hand, yet He drew lines and demanded holiness on the other. We can’t be like Jesus, nor can we demonstrate true love, if we affirm every lifestyle and embrace every behavior.

2. Our subculture is not dying. The denominations that are losing the most members today are actually the mainline groups that have lost their commitment to the Bible. I’m in a different church almost every week in this country (mostly charismatic or Pentecostal), and I see vibrant faith, growing congregations and the emergence of multiethnic leaders.

(And speaking of multiethnic, some of the most conservative Christians in America are immigrants from Africa, Asia and Latin America. Does Bell think they are irrelevant? They are the real future of our movement. Bell is out of touch if he thinks evangelicalism is just a bunch of old, white, Republican guys.)

3. We do need to change our attitude. I will agree with Bell that there is a segment of evangelicalism that is too politicized. We misrepresent Jesus when we label Him a Republican or a Democrat. He is neither. And we alienate people from Jesus when all we do is pontificate about what we are against.

It is very possible that gay marriage will become the law of the land in this country, just as the Supreme Court sanctioned abortion in 1973. Just because our government legalized the killing of an unborn baby does not mean I have to support that choice personally. But I do have to show love and extend Christ’s forgiveness to a woman who has aborted her child. Yelling at her or condemning her will not bring her to faith in Jesus.

In the same way, we are called to show love and respect to gay people. I don’t have to agree with a person’s lifestyle to love them. Jesus showed amazing compassion to the woman caught in adultery—and He rebuked the religious bullies who wanted to stone her. But when they put down their rocks and walked away, He told her: “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more” (John 8:11, emphasis added).

Jesus was totally comfortable using the word sin when He showed love to a person. And that’s the part of Jesus’ gospel that Rob Bell ignores.

J. Lee Grady is the former editor of Charisma and the director of The Mordecai Project (themordecaiproject.org). You can follow him on Twitter at Leegrady. His book Fearless Daughters of the Bible was just released in Spanish from Casa Creación

'''''''''''''''''''''''
It amazes me how people call themselves Christians and agree with a lifestyle that goes against GOD and His Word...smh


----------



## Shimmie

MrsHaseeb said:


> Shimmie I am not offended by your use of the word... The pits Hell is just where such a law has originated. A disproportionate number of pedophiles are homosexual.. this alone should be enough to tell people that homosexuality is nothing more than a perverse spirit that seeks to corrupt and destroy everything it encounters. Its the spirit using the people as vehicles to accomplish the will of the devil ..
> 
> All the people being brain washed to accept homosexuality as normal  do not realize it brings with a curse that will effect everyone. The story of Sodom and Gomorroah and the story of the tribe of Benjamin in Judges 19 is where society is headed with such laws being passed. I prayed against it this morning...
> 
> As far as the president... The only way he would be an advocate for not only this type of stuff [pedophilia, homosexuality, and murder (abortion and partial birth abortion)] is because he is probably reprobate and overtaken with such preverse spirits. It is not normal for a person to support the things he supports.



MrsHaseeb... were you able to read Belle Du Jour 's article a few posts up?

It has some very interesting and confirming information regarding the media's lies regarding increased support for homosexuality.    The media heads are gay and/or gay activists and they have orchestrated the news streams as pro-gay.   

Now this is something that we (meaning you and many others) were always aware of, and it is now being exposed.     

Check this out:   Reuters who is well known for their polls and statistics, tried to hide the true numbers of the latest polls of those who support homosexuality in this country.   Now according to the media, it's 53 to 61% supported, however the true number is only 41%.    Plus anyone who can count to 3 should know that if 31 out of 50 states have voted AGAINST gay marriage, how in the world are they (the activists) arriving at 53 to 61% in favour of this issue?   



So many people are addicted, dependent upon the news; news stations which have seducing spirits; spirits of darkness, principalities.   The entire strategy is the use of 'peer' pressure, idolotry, for many 'idololize the newscasters who have gained a 'captive audience' and as the Pied Piper, they are luring their captives to 'follow the crowd'.   However, the media is not only deceiving their prey, they are also binding them into darkness. 

_Father God, Please open our eyes, that we 'will' see.  Open our hearts, that we 'will' hear what you are speaking into our hearts and minds   Open the floodgates of your wisdom, poured into us, to overflowing.   Father, pour into us, more and more of your love, for we have no oughts against those in darkness, pour in your love to set them free, free indeed.   

In Jesus' Name, Amen._


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Shimmie most people are living in the matrix.   I stopped watching the news 10-15 years ago and I don't watch much tv.  There is all kinds of peverse crap on even prime time.  That's why all these "alternative lifestyles" are becoming so acceptable.  People are sleeping.  It's a shame.  

And I totally agree with the rest of you that if homosexual marriage is allowed, it will set a precedent for others who advocate for alternative lifestyles.  Yep, we are heading for destruction like so many other formerly great civilizations.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Shimmie said:


> MrsHaseeb... were you able to read Belle Du Jour 's article a few posts up?
> 
> It has some very interesting and confirming information regarding the media's lies regarding increased support for homosexuality.    The media heads are gay and/or gay activists and they have orchestrated the news streams as pro-gay.
> 
> Now this is something that we (meaning you and many others) were always aware of, and it is now being exposed.
> 
> Check this out:   Reuters who is well known for their polls and statistics, tried to hide the true numbers of the latest polls of those who support homosexuality in this country.   Now according to the media, it's 53 to 61% supported, however the true number is only 41%.    Plus anyone who can count to 3 should know that if 31 out of 50 states have voted AGAINST gay marriage, how in the world are they (the activists) arriving at 53 to 61% in favour of this issue?
> 
> 
> 
> So many people are addicted, dependent upon the news; news stations which have seducing spirits; spirits of darkness, principalities.   The entire strategy is the use of 'peer' pressure, idolotry, for many 'idololize the newscasters who have gained a 'captive audience' and as the Pied Piper, they are luring their captives to 'follow the crowd'.   However, the media is not only deceiving their prey, they are also binding them into darkness.
> 
> Father God, Please open our eyes, that we 'will' see.  Open our hearts, that we 'will' hear what you are speaking into our hearts and minds   Open the floodgates of your wisdom, poured into us, to overflowing.   Father, pour into us, more and more of your love, for we have no oughts against those in darkness, pour in your love to set them free, free indeed.
> 
> In Jesus' Name, Amen.



Amen.

Hi Shimmie. I visit the site on my phone and I miss posts. I will check it out. I don't watch the news... I believe it is there to program society to think a certain way.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Renewed1 said:


> I just saw on the news that several black preachers here in Chicago is for gay marriage.  It seems Bishop Carlton Pearson is also apart of this.
> 
> Sad.



Carlton Person's website states: As a result of what Carlton calls "*Expanded Consciousness*", he strongly advocates personal evolution, transformation and *Self Actualization*. He says his deep roots in Pentecostalist transcendance has informed his embrace of a more *Metaphysical approach* to life, scriptural interpretation and spirituality.

So basically, it's the gospel according to Mr. Pearson.  He also wrote a book  The Gospel of Inclusion,  is quickly becoming known as “a voice of reason in a world of religious extremes.” His *rejection of the traditional concept of hell* caused him to be rejected by mainstream fundamental evangelical Christianity.

Leading sheep astray.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Belle Du Jour said:


> Carlton Person's website states: As a result of what Carlton calls "Expanded Consciousness", he strongly advocates personal evolution, transformation and Self Actualization. He says his deep roots in Pentecostalist transcendance has informed his embrace of a more Metaphysical approach to life, scriptural interpretation and spirituality.
> 
> So basically, it's the gospel according to Mr. Pearson.  He also wrote a book  The Gospel of Inclusion,  is quickly becoming known as “a voice of reason in a world of religious extremes.” His rejection of the traditional concept of hell caused him to be rejected by mainstream fundamental evangelical Christianity.
> 
> Leading sheep astray.



This is so sad, to see him fall from where he was to where he is now. He has been teaching this doctrine for a while now. In fact, this is how he lost his Mega church. Most of the members left when he began to teach this doctrine but the few who would hang on to his every word have been deceived..


----------



## Galadriel

divya said:


> The point of my post is that it is a Christian stance to recognize the God-given opportunity to choose His way or not and based on that to teach and preach the truth, including that homosexuality and gay marriage is sin. That is the example we have in Jesus Christ.
> 
> Where does that say Christians show be quiet and accept the moral decay around them? That is what seems strange and also disingeneous to me. Or is it not enough to share the truth outside of pushing religion - since your stance is rooted in a Christian worldview - through civil law?
> 
> The difference between gay marriage and things like murder, lying, stealing is that the former does not infringe on the right of others as citizens, especially to follow God's laws according to the dictates of our consciences. Murder and the other wrongful actions, do. That is the major distinction here.
> 
> I strongly agree with you regarding the definition of marriage. However, it is simply my personal understanding of the Scripture (and underneath that civil law), that force our religious understanding of marriage via the government is wrong. It would be one thing if the opposition was not rooted in religion, but in the vast majority of cases, it is. Thus, where their choices do not infringe on our rights, people must choose for themselves whether or not to follow God's way.



divya, I think the disconnect between what we're saying to each other may be due to us having/using different ideas of "freedom," "rights," and the role of government.


----------



## Galadriel

MrsHaseeb said:


> Shimmie I am not offended by your use of the word... The pits Hell is just where such a law has originated. A disproportionate number of pedophiles are homosexual.. this alone should be enough to tell people that homosexuality is nothing more than a perverse spirit that seeks to corrupt and destroy everything it encounters.
> .



And this is something often glossed over. With the sex abuse scandal that broke out in recent years w/ the Church, what they fail to report is that these abusive relationships were almost all homosexual pederast (boys ages 11-17) relationships. So technically, we should be calling it the homosexual sex abuse scandal.

But of course that's not PC, right?

It was a huge mistake for those bishops to not have filtered out the homosexual men entering the seminaries in the 60s and 70s. Now they've harmed and abused innocent victims and it's all come back to bite us in the behind!

I remember when I was an undergrad in college, and was discussing something similar with a professor and group of students. The professor talked about how homosexuality used to be listed by the American Psychological Association as a disorder, but then was dropped in the 1970s. Then the professor predicted (this was in '98) that the next disorder/illness to be dropped will be pedophilia.

It's sad that a movement is being made to make it a "sexual orientation."

You'd think that with the morally lax people, that they would at least care about their and other kids' welfare to oppose something like this, but just consider:

1) they have already proven themselves lacking moral integrity when it comes to sexual morality
2) they have accepted or participated in sexualizing children (media, music, clothing)
3) they struck down parental notification laws or advocate "privacy" and "rights" for children and sexuality, thus attempting to shut parents out of what is happening with their kids in this area. Today on FB I just saw a notification of a judge in NY allowing Plan-B to be handed over-the-counter to minors. Statistically, more than half of teen moms are impregnated by men over 18.


----------



## divya

Galadriel said:


> divya, I think the disconnect between what we're saying to each other may be due to us having/using different ideas of "freedom," "rights," and the role of government.



Perhaps that is the case. Either way, the level of vice in this nation and the world is a sure sign of the times we live in, and it will only get the worse. Thank the Lord that one day there will be an end to it all...and God's government will reign supreme.


----------



## JaneBond007

Just read the article...my response is...
*
Proverbs 14:*

6 The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning.

8 The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways, but the folly of fools is deception.

12 There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.

15 The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps.

18 The simple inherit folly, but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.

34 Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin condemns any people.

*Proverbs 15:*

11 Death and Destructiona lie open before the Lord—how much more do human hearts!

12 Mockers resent correction, so they avoid the wise.

14 The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly.

24 The path of life leads upward for the prudent to keep them from going down to the realm of the dead.


*
Proverbs 16:*

16 How much better to get wisdom than gold, to get insight rather than silver!

25 There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.

28  A perverse person stirs up conflict, and a gossip separates close friends.

*
Proverbs 16:20*

*20 Whoever gives heed to instruction prospers,  and blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord.*


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> And this is something often glossed over. With the sex abuse scandal that broke out in recent years w/ the Church, what they fail to report is that these abusive relationships were almost all homosexual pederast (boys ages 11-17) relationships. So technically, we should be calling it the homosexual sex abuse scandal.
> 
> But of course that's not PC, right?
> 
> It was a huge mistake for those bishops to not have filtered out the homosexual men entering the seminaries in the 60s and 70s. Now they've harmed and abused innocent victims and it's all come back to bite us in the behind!
> 
> I remember when I was an undergrad in college, and was discussing something similar with a professor and group of students. The professor talked about how homosexuality used to be listed by the American Psychological Association as a disorder, but then was dropped in the 1970s. Then the professor predicted (this was in '98) that the next disorder/illness to be dropped will be pedophilia.
> 
> It's sad that a movement is being made to make it a "sexual orientation."
> 
> You'd think that with the morally lax people, that they would at least care about their and other kids' welfare to oppose something like this, but just consider:
> 
> 1) they have already proven themselves lacking moral integrity when it comes to sexual morality
> 2) they have accepted or participated in sexualizing children (media, music, clothing)
> 3) they struck down parental notification laws or advocate "privacy" and "rights" for children and sexuality, thus attempting to shut parents out of what is happening with their kids in this area. Today on FB I just saw a notification of a judge in NY allowing Plan-B to be handed over-the-counter to minors. Statistically, more than half of teen moms are impregnated by men over 18.



Galadriel....

Do you (and any of the other 'Ladies' here) remember the news show Dateline when the host newscaster "Chris Hanson" would set up child molesters?    

The majority of the cases were adult men who were seeking to have sex with young boys/teens.   The profiles were almost always an adult male seeking to have sex with a 13 year old boy.    

If my knowledge of 'human biology' serves me correctly, 13 is the _average _age when boys reach puberty (or to be more in depth) this is the age when most boys enter into the height of their sexual awakening.  They have sexual 'awakenings' (I'm being polite with this  ) and they are looking for a 'release'.   This is where satan comes in with a perverted mind in an adult male, who is a rotten snake---a child molester to 'confuse' these young boys with their sexuality. 

The tragic consequences are many, one is that many of these 'abused' teen boys (*not all *) but many of them take on this 'spirit' and in turn will molest a younger child (a brother, cousin, a neighbor's child, children in home day cares, in school... and it knows no end... )

homosexual behaviour is not inborn.  It is a 'learned' behaviour that is imposed (literally thrusted upon) one victim after another in a vicious pattern.  

I need to be clear:  I praise God for the *MANY* gay men who would *NEVER* molest a child.  They would never wish to impose nor impart into the life of a child the pain which they had to bear and live with physically, emotionally... spiritually.    They have an endearing heart filled with geninue love and will fight to the death to protect another child from this sexual abuse.

I don't want anyone reading this to get it twisted that I am 'bashing' anyone who is gay.   It is the lifestyle and the root cause of it which has compromised the innocense of so many lives.   

This foolishness with 'protecting' pedophiles shouldn't even be a debated issue.   It's an automatic shut case which does not merit any form of protection or debate for one.      

Your college professor 'called it' and it's a very tragic call.


----------



## Galadriel

Shimmie said:


> @Galadriel....
> 
> Do you (and any of the other 'Ladies' here) remember the news show Dateline when the host newscaster "Chris Hanson" would set up child molesters?



Yes, I remember that.



Shimmie said:


> The majority of the cases were adult men who were seeking to have sex with young boys/teens.   The profiles were almost always an adult male seeking to have sex with a 13 year old boy.
> 
> If my knowledge of 'human biology' serves me correctly, 13 is the _average _age when boys reach puberty (or to be more in depth) this is the age when most boys enter into the height of their sexual awakening.  They have sexual 'awakenings' (I'm being polite with this  ) and they are looking for a 'release'.   This is where satan comes in with a perverted mind in an adult male, who is a rotten snake---a child molester to 'confuse' these young boys with their sexuality.
> 
> The tragic consequences are many, one is that many of these 'abused' teen boys (*not all *) but many of them take on this 'spirit' and in turn will molest a younger child (a brother, cousin, a neighbor's child, children in home day cares, in school... and it knows no end... )
> 
> homosexual behaviour is not inborn.  It is a 'learned' behaviour that is imposed (literally thrusted upon) one victim after another in a vicious pattern.
> 
> I need to be clear:  I praise God for the *MANY* gay men who would *NEVER* molest a child.  They would never wish to impose nor impart into the life of a child the pain which they had to bear and live with physically, emotionally... spiritually.    They have an endearing heart filled with geninue love and will fight to the death to protect another child from this sexual abuse.



Well said. Pederasty is a particular sub-set of this, but does not include all gay males. Thanks for pointing that out, Shimmie.



Shimmie said:


> I don't want anyone reading this to get it twisted that I am 'bashing' anyone who is gay.   It is the lifestyle and the root cause of it which has compromised the innocense of so many lives.
> 
> This foolishness with 'protecting' pedophiles shouldn't even be a debated issue.   It's an automatic shut case which does not merit any form of protection or debate for one.
> 
> Your college professor 'called it' and it's a very tragic call.



It's quite tragic, and shouldn't even be up for debate or even have an opening.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Well, apparently Justice Sotomayor thinks that if SCOTUS re-define marriage they will open the door for polygamy.  This gives me a _little _hope. . .

PLEASE continue to lift these justices up in prayer!  This is our ONLY weapon against the enemy.  I also wrote the USCCB about instituting a prayer for marriage to be said after mass.  I know they did prayer campaigns for Religious Freedom and the Right to Life.  Hoping they will institute this.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

And the foolishness continues: 
http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/US.php?id=7395
"Students and parishioners are speaking up for a Catholic priest after two gay students at George Washington University said they want him removed for supporting the Church's stance on homosexual behavior."

And a link to what's happening in Canada: http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=10585811&postcount=4

I'm telling you, we are getting to a point where it will be a crime to say you disagree with a homosexual lifestyle!


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Cardinal Francis George joins African American preachers to decry the redefinition of marriage: http://www.nomblog.com/34290/


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Video on how gay "marriage" opponents are actually the oppressed ones: http://www.nomblog.com/34229/

Warning, this clip is from Fox news


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Well, apparently Justice Sotomayor thinks that if SCOTUS re-define marriage they will open the door for polygamy.  This gives me a _little _hope. . .
> 
> PLEASE continue to lift these justices up in prayer!  This is our ONLY weapon against the enemy.  I also wrote the USCCB about instituting a prayer for marriage to be said after mass.  I know they did prayer campaigns for Religious Freedom and the Right to Life.  Hoping they will institute this.



The majority of the Justices feel that legalizing gay marriage is going into 'unchartered waters' with consequences that will do more harm than good for society.   

They don't care about being on the so-called 'right side of history'.   They're up in age and are more focused on being on the right side of the Lord.   Plus they know that for them to step into these 'murky' warters, is unjust.  It is not within the realm of their invention.     They don't want hell clouds over their heads.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Cardinal Francis George joins African American preachers to decry the redefinition of marriage: http://www.nomblog.com/34290/



You know......

There's always beauty in light of challenges.  The 'beauty' is the joining of hearts of different denomininations.   I look at the hearts that have been joined right here in this thread.   God has made us 'One'.  

In Ephesians 2....

".... He has torn down the middle wall of separation.... He hath made the two 
'One'.  

I love Ephesians chapter 2.   The entire book of Ephesians is wrapped around "Marriage" and how God has 'before ordained' us, His children.   Before the foundations of the earth, He knew our names.    

It has always been His desire and plan to open the eyes of our understanding and reveal unto us, His truth.   

I 'see' Jesus bringing His Church together; tearing down the differences and making ''us" one.     This will be our fortress in keeping each other strong and building up one another's faith....in Him.    Through all of this, God over shadows the walls that has separated His Church.   He hath made the two 'One'.  

We are no longer 'fighting' each other, but are joined together with one heart, one mind, one focus, to battle together protecting our faith...honouring the Lord Jesus Christ.

I love my 'Catholic' Sisters.   I don't care nor am I focused on our differences in how we worship.    All I know is that we share the same heart and love for the Lord Jesus Christ and for each other.     You've never 'slung any arrows' towards anyone.   Your fight has always been to protect the Faith for all.  

Guess what?   Guess who wins?   We do.   Why?   

Well, why not?  

Afterall, we are 'One'.

satan can roar as loud as he wants with the gay actiivists and their agenda.   What 'they' don't realize is that they've already lost.   They don't realize that they cannot 'kill' nor stifle our faith.    Jesus has already died once...  He's not dying again.    Therefore we 'win'.   No one can shut Him up.   His Words live forever and beyond.  

Jesus is Lord...


----------



## Shimmie

Just a few updates from MassResistance:  A very strong presence fighting for True Marriage.   I've been on their mailing list for some time and their newsletters keep me updated.    

http://www.massresistance.org/


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Oklahoma says "NO" to same sex "marriage": http://www.nomblog.com/34330/
The vote was 84-0.  Look at God!


----------



## Belle Du Jour

CNN and MSNBC don't want to interview the gay son of Rep Solomon who does not support gay "marriage" despite his son being gay. Why?  Because his son won't bash his father. http://www.nomblog.com/34298/  We see the media's agenda.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Oklahoma says "NO" to same sex "marriage": http://www.nomblog.com/34330/
> The vote was 84-0.  Look at God!



84 to *ZERO *
 

God will not be 'mocked'.   

The media can hide all of the truth they want, however they cannot and shall not prevail against the Truth of the Living God.  

God will not be mocked....


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> CNN and MSNBC don't want to interview the gay son of Rep Solomon who does not support gay "marriage" despite his son being gay. Why?  Because his son won't bash his father. http://www.nomblog.com/34298/  We see the media's agenda.



The media 'fears' the Truth.  It's no small wonder that God calls it 'living in darkness'.


----------



## Shimmie

BTW:   Here's a podcast from Focus on the Family

Marriage and the Supreme Court

I fixed the link.  I apologize for not noticing this earlier.


http://www.focusonthefamily.com/popups/media_player.aspx?MediaId={C1FD3A95-CACE-4D38-84AD-BDB56A3E2B5F}


----------



## Belle Du Jour

If you own a business and don't want to be involved in a gay wedding for moral reasons?  You'll get sued 

http://www.nomblog.com/34342/


----------



## Galadriel

Belle Du Jour said:


> If you own a business and don't want to be involved in a gay wedding for moral reasons?  You'll get sued
> 
> http://www.nomblog.com/34342/



So much for "It won't affect you..."


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> If you own a business and don't want to be involved in a gay wedding for moral reasons?  You'll get sued
> 
> http://www.nomblog.com/34342/



Lady Belle, thanks for posting this.  When I read the other article you shared, I saw this one, but I wasn't able to comment until now. 

They are out of their stupid minds.  There are more than plenty of gay florists that are available for them to patronize, without being so vindictive against those who chose not to 'serve' them.   To be perfectly honest, there  are just as many (if not more) gays in the floral business / wedding business than there are non-gays.     The wedding shows are dominated by gay designers.    

My entire point is that they have absolutely NO excuse and NO validation for suing any business person who chooses not to support a gay lifestyle.  

As bad as this is for those who are being sued for not supporting their sin, it's only for a short season.  God is going to prevail in this and He is going to redeem those who have been reproached for choosing Him over sin.   God contends with those who contend with us...that's scripture and I've lived to see this prevail.   God always comes to our defence.   Always.   

These gay activists are building cases against themselves.   Non supporters of gay marriage are not going to be bullied.   There are laws of reciprosity (boomerang effects) which are inevitable.    The gays who are suing will be the ones sued and they will not win. 

This is not the calibre of Black Civil Rights; Black Skin is not a sin.  It is a Heritage and it has honour.     gay activists are not the masters of humanity, hence 'we' (who do not support their 'chosen' lifestyle) will not be their slaves; we cannot and will not be beaten into submission to support their sin.   Evil shall not triumph over righteousness.   The gay activists are committing the evil and it shall not prevail against those who love God.


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> So much for "It won't affect you..."



I know... right...   Galadriel and Belle Du Jour.. it's a  mess, isn't it?   

Here's the thing.  It has to 'hit those' who think this way in order for 'them' to _'get it'_.   Right now they're just observing what is occurring to others, so in their mind it still doesn't _'affect them' _personally.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Church of England says "no" to redefinition of marriage:

"The Church of England is committed to the traditional understanding of the institution of marriage as being between one man and one woman."

However. . .

"The Church of England supports the way civil partnerships offer same-sex couples equal rights and responsibilities to married heterosexual couples.  Opening marriage to same-sex couples would confer few if any new legal rights on the part of those already in a civil partnership, yet would require multiple changes to law, with the definition of marriage having to change for everyone."


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Church of England says "no" to redefinition of marriage:
> 
> "The Church of England is committed to the traditional understanding of the institution of marriage as being between one man and one woman."
> 
> However. . .
> 
> "The Church of England supports the way civil partnerships offer same-sex couples equal rights and responsibilities to married heterosexual couples.  Opening marriage to same-sex couples would confer few if any new legal rights on the part of those already in a civil partnership, yet would require multiple changes to law, with the definition of marriage having to change for everyone."



Welp..... 

The Bible has no neutral ground on same sex unions.   It's yay or nay.   

Every Church should be a 'Nay' without a hestation or stutter.


----------



## Galadriel

Found this quoted at a Catholic blog and it was well worth the read!



> *The Chief Rabbi of France, Gilles Bernheim, has shown in a very detailed and profoundly moving study that the attack we are currently experiencing on the true structure of the family, made up of father, mother, and child, goes much deeper. While up to now we regarded a false understanding of the nature of human freedom as one cause of the crisis of the family, it is now becoming clear that the very notion of being – of what being human really means – is being called into question. *
> 
> He quotes the famous saying of Simone de Beauvoir: “one is not born a woman, one becomes so” (on ne naît pas femme, on le devient). These words lay the foundation for what is put forward today under the term “gender” as a new philosophy of sexuality. According to this philosophy, sex is no longer a given element of nature, that man has to accept and personally make sense of: it is a social role that we choose for ourselves, while in the past it was chosen for us by society. The profound falsehood of this theory and of the anthropological revolution contained within it is obvious. People dispute the idea that they have a nature, given by their bodily identity, that serves as a defining element of the human being. They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. According to the biblical creation account, being created by God as male and female pertains to the essence of the human creature. This duality is an essential aspect of what being human is all about, as ordained by God. This very duality as something previously given is what is now disputed. The words of the creation account: “male and female he created them” (Gen 1:27) no longer apply. No, what applies now is this: it was not God who created them male and female – hitherto society did this, now we decide for ourselves. Man and woman as created realities, as the nature of the human being, no longer exist. Man calls his nature into question. From now on he is merely spirit and will. The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man’s fundamental choice where he himself is concerned. From now on there is only the abstract human being, who chooses for himself what his nature is to be. Man and woman in their created state as complementary versions of what it means to be human are disputed. But if there is no pre-ordained duality of man and woman in creation, then neither is the family any longer a reality established by creation. Likewise, the child has lost the place he had occupied hitherto and the dignity pertaining to him. Bernheim shows that now, perforce, from being a subject of rights, the child has become an object to which people have a right and which they have a right to obtain. When the freedom to be creative becomes the freedom to create oneself, then necessarily the Maker himself is denied and ultimately man too is stripped of his dignity as a creature of God, as the image of God at the core of his being. The defence of the family is about man himself. And it becomes clear that when God is denied, human dignity also disappears. Whoever defends God is defending man.


----------



## JaneBond007

^^Brava, Rabbi Gilles Bernheim!  As much as I loved reading Sartre and de Beauvoir, you know, they and other existentialists have done irreparable harm.  They were good in one aspect, horrible in another.  In trying to understand the human's existence and purpose, they overlooked the inherent philosophy and intelligence of scripture.  It's all this extraneous nonsense and human agendas that pushed people to look elsewhere.  But there are treasures within!  

Rabbi's got it!


----------



## Galadriel

An audio interview with the famous exorcist and author Fr. Malachi Martin (late '90s).

Start listening @ 9:20 HERE

It's amazing how Fr. Martin was spot-on regarding so many things relating to geo-politics and the Church. I think he passed away in '99.


----------



## JaneBond007

FrazzledFraggle said:


> Our rights and the rights of the church are gradually being eroded away. Many churches have already been sent threatening letters (to revoke their not for profit status) for speaking about politics from the pulpit. While IMO Pastors should not be instructing the congregation to pick a particularly politician, I think every Pastor has an obligation to make sure their congregation understands what is coming




Homilies are given all the time on the cultural and political climate but are not to endorse any candidate.  Where is it that churches are silenced on political issues?


----------



## Shimmie

Krullete said:


> ^Naturally, if churches solicit and accept the monies and benefits of the citizenry (as represented by the U.S. government), then they are beholden to respect the body of the citizenry as a whole.
> 
> *If this is unacceptable or distasteful to them, the churches simply have to get out of bed with the government, and find sufficiency in the funds and donations contributed by their own adherents. Independence maintained.      How is this difficult?  *



Uh...Uhh.....    I see some 'Shade' is being thrown... big time with this post.  



I got one... a big canopy of a 'shade'.   

But I gotta be nice....


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> An audio interview with the famous exorcist and author Fr. Malachi Martin (late '90s).
> 
> Start listening @ 9:20 HERE
> 
> It's amazing how Fr. Martin was spot-on regarding so many things relating to geo-politics and the Church. I think he passed away in '99.



Galadriel... 

I need to share this.   I am really being blessed by your posts such as the one above and the others.   They are filled with rich life's lessons and blessings.    

To you, "Lady Belle" (Belle Du Jour) and JaneBond007, your love for Jesus is so rich and so obvious.   You are strings of real pearls which have a true soft and beautiful luster.   It's not about Catholic on non-Catholic, nor other denominations or non-denominations.    No one can 'touch' the love for God that each of you express and I thank God for each of you.  

There is no perfect 'Faith' other than Jesus Christ, Himself.  The love you express for Him, speaks volumes.   

Please keep sharing.  Your hearts are what I see and they surpass all Religions.  We all know that I'm not Catholic, I don't think anyone could handle me if I was  (_Girl, you know I'm a trip _ )  Yet, you're my sisters and I love each of you.   

Keep sharing... I'm 'listening'.    :yep;  

Love,
Shimmie


----------



## Galadriel

Shimmie said:


> @Galadriel...
> 
> I need to share this.   I am really being blessed by your posts such as the one above and the others.   They are filled with rich life's lessons and blessings.
> 
> To you, "Lady Belle" (@Belle Du Jour) and @JaneBond007, your love for Jesus is so rich and so obvious.   You are strings of real pearls which have a true soft and beautiful luster.   It's not about Catholic on non-Catholic, nor other denominations or non-denominations.    No one can 'touch' the love for God that each of you express and I thank God for each of you.
> 
> There is no perfect 'Faith' other than Jesus Christ, Himself.  The love you express for Him, speaks volumes.
> 
> Please keep sharing.  Your hearts are what I see and they surpass all Religions.  We all know that I'm not Catholic, I don't think anyone could handle me if I was  (_Girl, you know I'm a trip _ )  Yet, you're my sisters and I love each of you.
> 
> Keep sharing... I'm 'listening'.    :yep;
> 
> Love,
> Shimmie




Thanks Shimmie, right back at you . I've always enjoyed your posts and conversations, Scripture quotes and insights. Now, if I can manage to be half as nice as you, then I'll be on a roll!


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> Thanks Shimmie, right back at you . I've always enjoyed your posts and conversations, Scripture quotes and insights. Now, if I can manage to be half as nice as you, then I'll be on a roll!



Now, I gotta behave.....  I need help.


----------



## Galadriel

Archbishop Cordileone in a USA Today Q&A makes the case for traditional marriage.

He NAILS IT! WOW!

Interview below:

*
San Francisco Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone chairs the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' Subcommittee for the Promotion and Defense of Marriage. Here are his views on the subject in response to questions from USA TODAY:*



Q: What is the greatest threat posed by allowing gays and lesbians to marry?

A:[/B]The better question is: What is the great good in protecting the public understanding that to make a marriage you need a husband and a wife?

I can illustrate my point with a personal example. When I was Bishop of Oakland, I lived at a residence at the Cathedral, overlooking Lake Merritt. It's very beautiful. But across the lake, as the streets go from 1st Avenue to the city limits at 100th Avenue, those 100 blocks consist entirely of inner city neighborhoods plagued by fatherlessness and all the suffering it produces: youth violence, poverty, drugs, crime, gangs, school dropouts, and incredibly high murder rates. Walk those blocks and you can see with your own eyes: A society that is careless about getting fathers and mothers together to raise their children in one loving family is causing enormous heartache.

To legalize marriage between two people of the same sex would enshrine in the law the principle that mothers and fathers are interchangeable or irrelevant, and that marriage is essentially an institution about adults, not children; marriage would mean nothing more than giving adults recognition and benefits in their most significant relationship.

How can we do this to our children?



Q: If the Supreme Court opens the floodgates to gay marriage in California (or beyond), what will be the result?

A: If the Supreme Court overturns Prop 8, this will not go down in history as the Loving v. Virginia but as the Roe v. Wade decision of our generation.

No matter what the Supreme Court rules, this debate is not over. Marriage is too important and the issues raised by treating same-gender unions as marriages are too fundamental to just go away. Just as Roe v. Wade did not end the conversation about abortion, so a ruling that tries to import same-sex marriage into our Constitution is not going to end the marriage debate, but intensify it.

We will have a bitterly polarized country divided on the marriage issue for years if not generations to come.



Q: Why is this of such importance to children?

A: Why has virtually every known civilization across time and history recognized the need to bring together men and women to make and raise the next generation together? Clearly something important is at stake, or human beings of such different cultures, histories and religions would not come up with the basic idea of marriage as a male-female union over and over again.

... When we as a culture abandon that idea and ideal, children suffer, communities suffer, women suffer, and men are dehumanized by being told they aren't important to the project of family life.

Modern social science evidence generally supports the idea that the ideal for a child is a married mother and father. The scientific study of children raised by two men or two women is in its infancy ... several recent studies ... are painting a less sanguine portrait thatsome professional organizations have yet acknowledged about whether two dads can make up for the absence of a mom, or vice versa.

We all know heroic single mothers who do a great job raising their kids (just as there are gay people who take good care of their children). But the question of the definition of marriage is not about success or failure in parenting in any particular case.

The job of single mothers is hard precisely because we aren't as a society raising boys to believe they need to become faithful husbands and fathers, men who care for and protect their children, and the mother of their children, in marriage. And we aren't raising girls to be the kind of young women with the high standards and the self-worth to expect and appreciate such men, and not to settle for less.



Q: How would the allegation that opponents are bigoted lead to their rights being abridged?

A: Notice the first right being taken away: the right of 7 million Californians who devoted time and treasure to the democratic process, to vote for our shared vision of marriage. Taking away people's right to vote on marriage is not in itself a small thing.

But the larger picture that's becoming increasingly clear is that this is not just a debate about what two people do in their private life, it's a debate about a new public norm: Either you support redefining marriage to include two people of the same sex or you stand accused by law and culture of bigotry and discrimination.

If you want to know what this new public legal and social norm stigmatizing traditional believers will mean for real people, ask David and Tanya Parker, who objected to their kindergarten son being taught about same sex marriage after the Massachusetts Supreme Court legalized it in that state and wanted to pull him out of class for that lesson. He was arrested and handcuffed for trying to protect his son's education, and they were told they had no right to do so.

Ask the good people of Ocean Grove Methodist camp in New Jersey that had part of its tax-exempt status rescinded because they don't allow same-sex civil union ceremonies on their grounds. Ask Tammy Schulz of Illinois, who adopted four children (including a sibling group) through Evangelical Child Family Services — which was shut down because it refuses to place children with same-sex couples. (The same thing has happened in Illinois, Boston and Washington, D.C., to Catholic Charities adoption services). ... Ask the doctor in San Diego County who did not want to personally create a fatherless child through artificial insemination, and was punished by the courts.... Ask Amy Rudnicki who testified in the Colorado Legislature recently that if Catholic Charities is shut out of the adoption business by new legislation, her family will lose the child they expected to adopt this year. ... Nobody is better off if religious adoption agencies are excluded from helping find good homes for abused and neglected children, but governments are doing this because the principle of "anti-discrimination" is trumping liberty and compassion. ...

When people say that opposition to gay marriage is discriminatory, like opposition to interracial marriage, they cannot also say their views won't hurt anybody else. They seek to create and enforce a new moral and legal norm that stigmatizes those who view marriage as the union of husband and wife. ... It's not kind, and it doesn't seem to lead to a "live and let live" pluralism.



Q: You have spoken of gay marriage as a "natural impossibility." But in terms of procreation, how does it differ from opposite-sex couples who are elderly or infertile?

A: Our bodies have meaning. The conjugal union of a man and a woman is not a factory to produce babies; marriage seeks to create a total community of love, a "one flesh" union of mind, heart and body that includes a willingness to care for any children their bodily union makes together.

Two men and two women can certainly have a close loving committed emotional relationship, but they can never ever join as one flesh in the unique way a husband and wife do.

Infertility is, as you point out, part of the natural life cycle of marriage (people age!), as well as a challenge and disappointment some husbands and wives have to go through. People who have been married for 50 years are no less married because they can no longer have children.

Adoption can be a wonderful happy ending for children who lack even one parent able or willing to care for them. But notice, when a man and woman cannot have children together, that's an accident of circumstances, the exception to the rule. When a husband and wife adopt, they are mirroring the pattern set in nature itself. ...

Treating same-sex relationships as marriage is the final severing by government of the natural link between marriage and the great task of bringing together male and female to make and raise the next generation together in love.



Q: Is it particularly difficult for you to play a leading role against gay marriage in a place like San Francisco? Does it change your relationship with gay congregants?

A: Truthfully, I am really excited to be in San Francisco. I remember the first time I saw the city as a boy when our family drove up from San Diego to meet my father who was unloading his tuna boat here. ... To me San Francisco was and is The City! It represents vibrant, pulsating, creative, cosmopolitan life and I love it. Of course I realize many people in San Francisco disagree with the church's teachings on marriage and sex, but there is also a very deeply embedded Catholic culture here with many people who understand and cherish the church's teachings. My job as an archbishop is to teach the truths of our faith and the truths of the natural moral law, and whatever challenges that entails I embrace with enthusiasm.

We can learn to respect each other across differences and even to love one another. That's my hope anyway. And my job description.



Continued below...


----------



## Galadriel

Continued...

Q: Has it become more difficult to oppose gay marriage over the years? Does it seem the tide is turning against you?

A:There is a problem here – an injustice, really – in the way that some people are so often identified by what they are against. Opposition to same-sex marriage is a natural consequence of what we are for, i.e., preserving the traditional, natural understanding of marriage in the culture and in the law.

But of course people who are for the redefinition of marriage to include two men or two women are also against something: They are against protecting the social and legal understanding that marriage is the union of a husband and wife who can give children a mother and father.

So there are really two different ideas of marriage being debated in our society right now, and they cannot coexist: Marriage is either a conjugal union of a man and a woman designed to unite husband and wife to each other and to any children who may come from their union, or it is a relationship for the mutual benefit of adults which the state recognizes and to which it grants certain benefits. Whoever is for one, is opposed to the other. ...

Those of us who favor preserving the traditional understanding of marriage do not do so because we want people who experience attraction to their same sex to suffer. We recognize and respect the equal human dignity of everyone. Everyone should be treated equally, but it is not discrimination to treat differently things that are different. Marriage really is unique for a reason.



Q: Do you have friends or family members who are gay? How do you balance your public policy positions with those relationships?

A: Of course! I am a Baby Boomer, and I grew up in Southern California. The larger question you raise about my relationships with people I care about is: How can we love each other across deep differences in moral views? The answer I have found is that when we want to stay in relationship, we can and do. Love finds a way. When we want to exclude or hate, we find each other's views literally intolerable.

Of course, it helps that my friends know me, directly and unfiltered through any other source. When you know someone personally, it's much harder to rely on stereotyped or media-created images. It's a lot harder to be hateful or prejudiced against a person, or group of people, that one knows personally. When there is personal knowledge and human interaction, the barriers of prejudice and pre-conceived ideas come down.



Q: What are your main goals: Supreme Court, lower courts, state legislatures, public opinion, religious liberty?

A: My main goal is none of these. I'm a faith leader, and my main goal is to seek to create a Catholic community in San Francisco where people know what the church teaches and uses this knowledge to guide their own lives and get to heaven. I want to help people understand the truth of natural marriage and, for people of my own faith, the deeper, theological, even mystical meaning of marriage as designed by God.

Using words, though, is only one way of teaching. Usually one's actions speak louder than words. So there is a place for public manifestations of principle. The civil rights marches of the '60s are a good example of that. Yes, they were a way to agitate for long overdue political change, but they also had a teaching effect in that they got people to think about the injustices of racism.

Engaging with the broader culture is also part of my teaching role as an archbishop, and of course my right as U.S. citizen.



Q: Are you worried about the recent trend in courts and states going against you? How best to stop that trend?

A: The natural law has a power written on the human heart that doesn't go away.

Notice how there is no controversy in this country now over the evil of Jim Crow laws. Shortly after the Civil Rights Act the cultural change was complete. This is because it was the right thing to do. The truth cannot be suppressed indefinitely.

Draw a contrast here with the pro-life movement: After the Roe decision, it was commonly thought that our society would soon easily accept the legitimacy of abortion. But what has happened? The pro-life movement is stronger now, 40 years later, than it ever has been. This is because of the truth: Abortion is the killing of an innocent human life. That is not a matter of opinion or religious belief; it is a simple fact that cannot be denied.

The same principle applies with marriage: It is simply a natural fact that you need a man and a woman to make a marriage and that a child's heart longs for the love of both his or her mother and father. Even if the Supreme Court rules against this truth, the controversy will not die out, as it hasn't on the abortion issue.

The problem is, the longer a society operates in denial of the truth, the greater is the harm that will be done. The examples of the racist policies and practices of the past in our own country make this clear, as does all the harm that abortion has done to women and all those in her network of relationships.

With marriage, we have to consider the harm that will be caused by enshrining in the law the principle that children do not need a mother and a father. The circumstances of our struggles change but the truth does not.


----------



## JaneBond007

Shimmie said:


> It's not about Catholic on non-Catholic, nor other denominations or non-denominations.    No one can 'touch' the love for God that each of you express and I thank God for each of you.
> 
> There is no perfect 'Faith' other than Jesus Christ, Himself.  The love you express for Him, speaks volumes.
> 
> Please keep sharing.  Your hearts are what I see and they surpass all Religions.  We all know that I'm not Catholic, I don't think anyone could handle me if I was  (_Girl, you know I'm a trip _ )  Yet, you're my sisters and I love each of you.



I dunno, I'm far from what you describe...lol.  It's just every single day, picking up the cross.  But for me, it absolutely is about catholicism.  I only have 2 choices, directly given by the L-rd to me.  If it weren't for catholicism, I would not truly know him.  I'm speaking for myself and am not doubting anyone's conversion.  But I can't survive as a christian without catholicism.  I know for myself that, even though catholics are not perfect, I have the prescribed faith in Christ that He instituted on earth.  As I pray the rosary and learn of the spiritual fruit, it becomes more evident to me every time.  It's funny, too, cuz I was just thinking of this a few days ago, even last night.  

I'm not being contrary nor divisive and I pray no one takes it that way, but I have to clarify for myself and my testimony what it's about for me.  It's absolutely about Christ in the Eucharist and that would be impossible without the catholic church (eastern included).  I hope that makes sense and I hope and pray I haven't offended anyone. What I mean is that I cannot separate the two for myself, as I have no options outside faith in Christ except for in His catholic prescribed faith.   I just had to declare it so no one is confused about where I personally stand.

I love you too, sis in Christ.


----------



## Shimmie

JaneBond007 said:


> I dunno, I'm far from what you describe...lol.  It's just every single day, picking up the cross.  But for me, it absolutely is about catholicism.  I only have 2 choices, directly given by the L-rd to me.  If it weren't for catholicism, I would not truly know him.  I'm speaking for myself and am not doubting anyone's conversion.  But I can't survive as a christian without catholicism.  I know for myself that, even though catholics are not perfect, I have the prescribed faith in Christ that He instituted on earth.  As I pray the rosary and learn of the spiritual fruit, it becomes more evident to me every time.  It's funny, too, cuz I was just thinking of this a few days ago, even last night.
> 
> I'm not being contrary nor divisive and I pray no one takes it that way, but I have to clarify for myself and my testimony what it's about for me.  It's absolutely about Christ in the Eucharist and that would be impossible without the catholic church (eastern included).  I hope that makes sense and I hope and pray I haven't offended anyone. What I mean is that I cannot separate the two for myself, as I have no options outside faith in Christ except for in His catholic prescribed faith.   I just had to declare it so no one is confused about where I personally stand.
> 
> I love you too, sis in Christ.



I'm not offended.  Not at all.   

There's no greater love than what we each share in Jesus Christ.  I am honoured to 'know' and have you as my 'sister'.    Jesus is our 'Core Being' .. He is our 'All in All'.   He is our Forever.   No greater love...


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> Continued...
> 
> *Q: Has it become more difficult to oppose gay marriage over the years? Does it seem the tide is turning against you?
> 
> A:There is a problem here – an injustice, really – in the way that some people are so often identified by what they are against. Opposition to same-sex marriage is a natural consequence of what we are for, i.e., preserving the traditional, natural understanding of marriage in the culture and in the law.
> 
> But of course people who are for the redefinition of marriage to include two men or two women are also against something: They are against protecting the social and legal understanding that marriage is the union of a husband and wife who can give children a mother and father.
> 
> So there are really two different ideas of marriage being debated in our society right now, and they cannot coexist: Marriage is either a conjugal union of a man and a woman designed to unite husband and wife to each other and to any children who may come from their union, or it is a relationship for the mutual benefit of adults which the state recognizes and to which it grants certain benefits. Whoever is for one, is opposed to the other. ...
> 
> Those of us who favor preserving the traditional understanding of marriage do not do so because we want people who experience attraction to their same sex to suffer. We recognize and respect the equal human dignity of everyone. Everyone should be treated equally, but it is not discrimination to treat differently things that are different. Marriage really is unique for a reason.*
> 
> Q: Do you have friends or family members who are gay? How do you balance your public policy positions with those relationships?
> 
> A: Of course! I am a Baby Boomer, and I grew up in Southern California. The larger question you raise about my relationships with people I care about is: How can we love each other across deep differences in moral views? The answer I have found is that when we want to stay in relationship, we can and do. Love finds a way. When we want to exclude or hate, we find each other's views literally intolerable.
> 
> Of course, it helps that my friends know me, directly and unfiltered through any other source. When you know someone personally, it's much harder to rely on stereotyped or media-created images. It's a lot harder to be hateful or prejudiced against a person, or group of people, that one knows personally. When there is personal knowledge and human interaction, the barriers of prejudice and pre-conceived ideas come down.
> 
> 
> 
> Q: What are your main goals: Supreme Court, lower courts, state legislatures, public opinion, religious liberty?
> 
> A: My main goal is none of these. I'm a faith leader, and my main goal is to seek to create a Catholic community in San Francisco where people know what the church teaches and uses this knowledge to guide their own lives and get to heaven. I want to help people understand the truth of natural marriage and, for people of my own faith, the deeper, theological, even mystical meaning of marriage as designed by God.
> 
> Using words, though, is only one way of teaching. Usually one's actions speak louder than words. So there is a place for public manifestations of principle. The civil rights marches of the '60s are a good example of that. Yes, they were a way to agitate for long overdue political change, but they also had a teaching effect in that they got people to think about the injustices of racism.
> 
> Engaging with the broader culture is also part of my teaching role as an archbishop, and of course my right as U.S. citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> Q: Are you worried about the recent trend in courts and states going against you? How best to stop that trend?
> 
> A: The natural law has a power written on the human heart that doesn't go away.
> 
> Notice how there is no controversy in this country now over the evil of Jim Crow laws. Shortly after the Civil Rights Act the cultural change was complete. This is because it was the right thing to do. The truth cannot be suppressed indefinitely.
> 
> Draw a contrast here with the pro-life movement: After the Roe decision, it was commonly thought that our society would soon easily accept the legitimacy of abortion. But what has happened? The pro-life movement is stronger now, 40 years later, than it ever has been. This is because of the truth: Abortion is the killing of an innocent human life. That is not a matter of opinion or religious belief; it is a simple fact that cannot be denied.
> 
> The same principle applies with marriage: It is simply a natural fact that you need a man and a woman to make a marriage and that a child's heart longs for the love of both his or her mother and father. Even if the Supreme Court rules against this truth, the controversy will not die out, as it hasn't on the abortion issue.
> 
> The problem is, the longer a society operates in denial of the truth, the greater is the harm that will be done. The examples of the racist policies and practices of the past in our own country make this clear, as does all the harm that abortion has done to women and all those in her network of relationships.
> 
> With marriage, we have to consider the harm that will be caused by enshrining in the law the principle that children do not need a mother and a father. The circumstances of our struggles change but the truth does not.



Galadriel...

This is remarkable.  Every Christian on earth can be thankful for such a wonderful represention of why we fight for pure Marriage... 'One Man, One Woman' under God.  

The way he breaks down every answer dispels every lie and negative comment that has been applied to those of us who do not support gay marriage.   There's no hatred among any of us.   We just don't support it.   And when the Bishop shared that 'they' don't support our views as well...  Praise God for this man's testimony.   I bolded it above and it's worth it's weight in *Platium*.  

Anyone who would continue to address 'us' as haters, bigots, etc., after reading the Bishop's message, has a lot to learn about life.  The hatred is coming from them, not those who oppose the changing of pure Marriage.

Oh and the way he broke it down about loved ones in our lives who are gay...        He is ON POINT.... When someone 'KNOWS' you, there can't be hatred.    I've been sharing this all along.   My gay family members and friends, KNOW that I love them.   They KNOW.   

Again, this is such an awesome message.   

Please keep these reviews coming.  They are needed and most indeed appreciated.   Thank you so much.


----------



## JaneBond007

Shimmie said:


> Uh...Uhh.....    I see some 'Shade' is being thrown... big time with this post.
> 
> 
> 
> I got one... a big canopy of a 'shade'.
> 
> But I gotta be nice....




Independence....churches aren't maintained by churches and the only ones who 1/2 way receive any funding are through social services to help people.  They just are the facilitators of the programs.  The govt. doesn't contribute monies to churches.  I don't get that post.


----------



## Shimmie

JaneBond007 said:


> Independence....churches aren't maintained by churches and the only ones who 1/2 way receive any funding are through social services to help people.  They just are the facilitators of the programs.  The govt. doesn't contribute monies to churches.  I don't get that post.



EXACTLY!  

That post was just an opportunity to pull some shade on Christianity, however it only showed the ignorance of one who posted it and the ones who 'thanked' it.  They don't have a clue about Church business.


----------



## Blackpearl1993

Several more examples of how the denigration of marriage affects everyone and every entity:

"What same sex "marriage" has done to Massachusetts- 2012

http://ow.ly/k1ZYF


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Blackpearl1993 said:


> Several more examples of how the denigration of marriage affects everyone and every entity:
> 
> "What same sex "marriage" has done to Massachusetts- 2012
> 
> http://ow.ly/k1ZYF



It's so scary to think this could happen nationwide.


----------



## Blackpearl1993

Belle Du Jour said:


> It's so scary to think this could happen nationwide.



I actually think the supporters behind this and of course the spirit that is truly behind them DO want us to be scared. What's really sad is the desire to indoctrinate others. This isn't about "just" about having the legal right to marry, it's about changing the hearts and minds of those who cling to truth. I refuse to support this foolishness just as most of you ladies do, and I refuse to have my children's minds manipulated by the devil.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

This is what burns my britches!  It went very quickly from "we just love each other and want the right to be together" to "if you don't fully accept my lifestyle we WILL sue you and come after you!  You MUST accept this lifestyle as normal, regardless of what your religious beliefs are."

Right now, two gay students are fighting for a priest at GWU to be fired for, guess what, standing by his beliefs! 

There are two lawsuits that I know of against a florist and a hotel owner who don't want to participate in gay "weddings."  Very likely, the law will compel them to do so or pay.  This is just WRONG.

Most of the foolish people on FB who were putting up equal signs to be cool and fit in probably don't even realize how deep this goes.  The gay lobby didn't even get their inch before taking a mile.


----------



## divya

Here is another case where a teacher was fired from her job at a Catholic school because it was revealed that she was gay in her mother's obituary. She intends to fight it, but what she fails to realize, is that when she delves into the realm of the church, it is holy ground. The truth will come out in the light...and it did. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobil...d-teacher-catholic-high-school_n_3103853.html


----------



## Belle Du Jour

divya said:


> Here is another case where a teacher was fired from her job at a Catholic school because it was revealed that she was gay in her mother's obituary. She intends to fight it, but what she fails to realize, is that when she delves into the realm of the church, it is holy ground. The truth will come out in the light...and it did.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobil...d-teacher-catholic-high-school_n_3103853.html



I heard about that on FB.  The thing is why do people want to have their cake and eat it too?  Why not teach at a public school where no one would care?  I wonder if she was at mass in school keeping up the charade while living an active homosexual lifestyle?  Why do people cling to this idea of cultural Catholicism but deny what the Church teaches?  

I'm sure when she signed her contract, there was something in there about promising to adhere to the beliefs of the church so she won't have a leg to stand on.


----------



## JaneBond007

The church is not going to make you resign your post unless you are an open, practicing homosexual as a priest.  Other positions of the laity, I don't quite know...but I'm sure they are open to scrutiny by the diocese.  Things is, as openly gay/practicing priests, there is conflict of interest in guiding the flock.  

Our principal of our former parish was gay and nobody knew Sister Janet was gay until her death.  Was she having sex with the love of her life, another sister?  I dunno.  I'd like to think that she was taking communion devoid of mortal sin.  In fact, I know a brilliant Jewish-catholic writer (I don't care who doesn't comprehend that hyphenated adjective..I do and it's simply what she is) from Canada who is not practicing homosexual sex but is gay.  That's just how she is.  She does have someone she loves and talks quasi openly about it. 

 I know of others who are orthodox Jewish who are gay but do not have sex.  I guess it depends upon the situation but I do know that wouldn't be appropriate for a priest, actually, even where there is no sex.  But I let G-d be the judge.  We  loved Sister Janet and yes, it was somewhat of a shock at her funeral, but we got over it.  

But the thing remains, as for the RCC, that disposition is not fully comprehended and we are not afraid of science.  We know we do not know all the psychological/physiological facets of gay people.  But we do know that the action of homosexual sex is wrong.  That is what is prohibited.  We do not (no longer?) condemn the person of that disposition as being a sinner.  You have to commit the sin to be guilty of it.  For example, and a poor analogy, if you wanna rob a bank, you're not a robber yet until you commit it.  And yet, one can't quite compare homosexual makeup with that of "guilty of the heart" because truthfully, we don't know all there is to know about it.  People should remain prayerful and totally respectful.


----------



## sweetvi

Blackpearl1993 said:


> Several more examples of how the denigration of marriage affects everyone and every entity:
> 
> "What same sex "marriage" has done to Massachusetts- 2012
> 
> http://ow.ly/k1ZYF



Wow. Interesting. That the Boston bombings happened.......  Blackpearl1993


----------



## divya

Belle Du Jour said:


> I heard about that on FB.  The thing is why do people want to have their cake and eat it too?  Why not teach at a public school where no one would care?  I wonder if she was at mass in school keeping up the charade while living an active homosexual lifestyle?  Why do people cling to this idea of cultural Catholicism but deny what the Church teaches?
> 
> I'm sure when she signed her contract, there was something in there about promising to adhere to the beliefs of the church so she won't have a leg to stand on.



Yes, there was a clause within the contract making the upholding of Catholic principles a condition of employment. I wonder if during the course of her 19 yrs there, she became homosexual or if she was prior to her employment there. Either way, it is proper that she be removed.


----------



## Galadriel

divya said:


> Yes, there was a clause within the contract making the upholding of Catholic principles a condition of employment. I wonder if during the course of her 19 yrs there, she became homosexual or if she was prior to her employment there. Either way, it is proper that she be removed.



Agreed. If she signed the contract and broke it, then the school is justified in dismissing her.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> *This is what burns my britches!*
> 
> It went very quickly from "we just love each other and want the right to be together" to "if you don't fully accept my lifestyle we WILL sue you and come after you!  You MUST accept this lifestyle as normal, regardless of what your religious beliefs are."
> 
> Right now, two gay students are fighting for a priest at GWU to be fired for, guess what, standing by his beliefs!
> 
> There are two lawsuits that I know of against a florist and a hotel owner who don't want to participate in gay "weddings."  Very likely, the law will compel them to do so or pay.  This is just WRONG.
> 
> Most of the foolish people on FB who were putting up equal signs to be cool and fit in probably don't even realize how deep this goes.  The gay lobby didn't even get their inch before taking a mile.



At the bolded...  Simply Adorable.    

Lady Belle, you made my day.   Only a 'Lady' would say something like this.  

I totally agree... 'Originally'.... (rolleyes)   This was 'supposed' to be  ONLY about 'marriage'.    

However ... I knew all along that it wasn't.   Ever since I saw a news report a few years back... a gay activist, said in an interview, that they wanted more than a 'bite' of the apple.  

I have news for this gay agenda... big news.  

"You're not going to win'.   Sin never does.


----------



## Shimmie

sweetvi said:


> Wow. I*nteresting. That the Boston bombings happened....... * Blackpearl1993



It's time for activists to get the 'backlash', not those who are innocent.  From now on, each time a judge, a gay activist, a political gay lifestyle advocate directly and on purpose, without hesitation, moves to harm, sue, take away the rights of one's faith to not support the gay agenda, it is THEY who will fall, no longer the innocent who have no part in this. 

I'm speaking of those who have chosen to strip the rights and who seek to punish those who do not wish to support the gay lifestyle.  

They may 'alter' a man-made law; they may try and gay-mon-ize the Bible, however they can NEVER alter God who is the Supreme Being over any and every court and law of any land.  

Father God... thank you for protecting those who choose you above the gay agenda.   If you be for us, who dare be against us.  With you on our side, we can never be denied.   T

Thank you for protecting the rights of those who seek your righteousness and prevail in faith........ in you.   Let them not be defeated nor bullied.   Restore to those who have been victimized by those who sodomize; the courts must restore seven-fold of all that was stolen from them, in business, personal finances, posterity, and peace...   Restore unto them, all that was stolen by the enemy who is trying to force his way upon us.  

In all that is said and done, satan shall not prevail...

Thank you Father God... for healing us all and delivering us from evil, leading us not into temptation, but making us more than Conqueror's through Jesus Christ who loves us.  

In Jesus' Name... Amen and Amen Again.


----------



## Galadriel

The florist lady in Washington is being sued by the ACLU http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/florist-faces-second-lawsuit-over-gay-wedding-refusal/


----------



## Nice & Wavy

5 And Jehoshaphat stood in the assembly of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the Lord, before the new court, 

6 and said, “O Lord,  God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the  kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none  is able to withstand you. Hallelujah!

7 Did  you not, our God, drive out the inhabitants of this land before your  people Israel, and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham your  friend? Yes...we are those descendants!

8 And they have lived in it and have built for you in it a sanctuary for your name, saying, 

9 ‘If disaster comes upon us, the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, *we will stand before this house and before  you—for your name is in this house—and cry out to you in our affliction,  and you will hear and save.’* Hallelujah!!!

10 And  now behold, the men of Ammon and Moab and Mount Seir, whom you would  not let Israel invade when they came from the land of Egypt, and whom  they avoided and did not destroy— You are giving them a chance to repent.

11 behold, they reward us by coming to drive us out of your possession, which you have given us to inherit. Marriage between a Man and a Woman!!!

12 O  our God, will you not execute judgment on them? For we are powerless  against this great horde that is coming against us. We do not know what  to do, *but our eyes are on you*.”  We know to pray and we know that you will save the Sanctity of Marriage in this nation.  Our eyes are on you!!!!!

2 Chronicles 20: 5-12


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> 5 And Jehoshaphat stood in the assembly of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the Lord, before the new court,
> 
> 6 and said, “O Lord,  God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the  kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none  is able to withstand you. Hallelujah!
> 
> 7 Did  you not, our God, drive out the inhabitants of this land before your  people Israel, and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham your  friend? Yes...we are those descendants!
> 
> 8 And they have lived in it and have built for you in it a sanctuary for your name, saying,
> 
> 9 ‘If disaster comes upon us, the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, *we will stand before this house and before  you—for your name is in this house—and cry out to you in our affliction,  and you will hear and save.’* Hallelujah!!!
> 
> 10 And  now behold, the men of Ammon and Moab and Mount Seir, whom you would  not let Israel invade when they came from the land of Egypt, and whom  they avoided and did not destroy— You are giving them a chance to repent.
> 
> 11 behold, they reward us by coming to drive us out of your possession, which you have given us to inherit. Marriage between a Man and a Woman!!!
> 
> 12 O  our God, will you not execute judgment on them? For we are powerless  against this great horde that is coming against us. We do not know what  to do, *but our eyes are on you*.”  We know to pray and we know that you will save the Sanctity of Marriage in this nation.  Our eyes are on you!!!!!
> 
> 2 Chronicles 20: 5-12



What a Word, What a Word, What a Word!   My Lord... Praise the Name of Jesus.

All we needed is the 'proof' to present our cause before the Lord and before the courts.    Christians are not going to 'tolerate' this.   It's gone too far, way too far.   

It's not like gays do not have other places to patron who will accommodate their sin.  They have numerous gay accommodations.   They 'own' much of them; so why go where their lifestyles are not 'celebrated'?      

They are purposely seeking out businesses who will not patronize them... (yes, PATRONIZE... Kiss up to them.  ) so that they can file suits against them.    

This is wrong on all accounts.  gays know exactly what they are doing.   However, they better watch it, because I'm not playing with my praying.  They will not prevail in this.   In Jesus' Name, everyone who has been victimized by these unlawful, unjustified gay lawsuits will not be able to prevail against the children of God.       

No...   I'm not having it.


----------



## Shimmie

France ... 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/24/world/europe/france-approves-same-sex-marriage.html?_r=0

Their government ignored / overruled the French Citizen's vote which was totally against gay marriage.   

This is nothing but a dictatorship and it will not prevail... because it's wrong.

I still say, 'Vive Le France'  (Long Live France).   The people ruled against gay marriage and the people who did so shall stand.  

I'm just gonna continue to draw closer to God and allow Him to contend with those who contend with me.   God never loses.  And He is not going to allow these legislators and gay advocates alter His ordinance for Marriage, One Man, One Woman under God.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

This summed it up for me....PRAISE THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS FOR HIS WORD AND HIS PEOPLE WHO WILL NOT SIT DOWN AND ACCEPT WHAT THE WORLD SAYS IS RIGHT...BUT WHO WILL TELL THE TRUTH....IN LOVE!

It's long...but please read, its well worth it!!!

*Love and the Inhumanity of Same-Sex Marriage*

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/04/15/love-and-the-inhumanity-of-same-sex-marriage/

More and more commentators are  saying that we have passed the tipping point on same-sex marriage in the  United States. Almost daily another politician or public figure stands  before a microphone to declare his or her support. It feels like the dam  has burst; the paradigm shifted.  Whether or not same sex marriage is a political _fait accompli, _I  don't know. *What concerns me in the present hour is the temptation  among Christians to go with the flow. The assumption is that the nation  no longer shares our morality, and that we must not impose our views on  others and blur the line between church and state. Besides, we don't  want to let any political cantankerousness get in the way of sharing the  gospel, right? So we might as well throw in our lot. So the thinking  goes.  *

How hard Christians should actively fight against same-sex marriage  is a
matter for wisdom. 

But that *we must not support it, I would like to  persuade you, is a matter of biblical principle. To vote for it, to  legislate it, to rule in favor of it, to tell your friends at the office  that you think it's just fine—all this is sin. To support it publicly  or privately is to "give approval to those who practice" the very things  that God promises to judge—exactly what we're told not to do in Romans 1:32.*  Further, *same-sex marriage embraces a definition of humanity that is  less than human and a definition of love that is less than love. And it  is not freedom from religion that the advocates of same-sex marriage  want; they want to repress one religion in favor of another. Christians must not go with the flow. They must instead love the  advocates of same-sex marriage better than they love themselves  precisely by refusing to endorse it.*

 I am saying this for the sake of you who are Christians, who affirm  the authority of Scripture, who believe that homosexual activity is  wrong, and who believe in the final judgment. I don't mean here to  persuade anyone who does not share these convictions.  My goal in all of this is to encourage the church to be the church.  What good is salt that loses it saltiness? Or what use is light under a  bowl? Rather, blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness'  sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 
*
Deeper Understanding of Humanity*

 I believe Voddie Baucham is exactly right to say that *"gay is not the new black,"  *and that *we should not formally equate sexual orientation to ethnicity  or sex as an essential component of personal identity.* It is amazing to  me that recent legal battles simply take this equation for granted  without holding it up to the light and looking at it.  *There are several assumptions behind the idea that a person with same-sex attraction might say "I am a  homosexual" in the same way someone might say "I am a male" or "I am  black."* *First, one assumes that homosexual desires are rooted in biology  and therefore a natural part of being human. Second, one assumes that  our natural desires are basically good, so long as they don't hurt  others. Third, one assumes that fulfilling such basic and good desires  are part of being fully human.*

*All the talk about "equality" depends upon these foundational assumptions about what it means to be human.*  Marriage then becomes an important prize to be won for people with  same-sex attraction because, as the oldest and most human of  institutions, marriage publicly affirms these deep desires. Everybody  who participates in a wedding—from the father who walks a bride down an  aisle, to the company of friends, to the pastor leading the ceremony, to  the state who licenses the certificate—participates in a positive and  formal affirmation of a couple's union. It is hard to think of a better  way to affirm same-sex desire as good and part of being fully human than  to leverage the celebratory power of a wedding ceremony and a marriage.  Make no mistake: The fundamental issue at stake in the same-sex  marriage debate is not visitation rights, adoption rights, inheritance  laws, or all the stuff of "civil unions." Those are derivative. It is  fundamentally about being publicly recognized as fully human.

 Biblically minded Christians, of course, have no problem recognizing  people with same-sex attraction as fully human. There are members of my  church who experience same-sex attraction. We worship with them,  vacation with them, love them (keep reading). What Christianity does not do, however,  is grant that fulfilling every natural desire is what makes us human.

Christianity in fact offers a more mature and deeper concept of  humanity, more mature and deep than the person engaged in a homosexual  lifestyle has of him or herself.  It is more mature because Christianity begins with the frank  admission that* fallen human beings are corrupted all the way down, all  the way in.* A child assumes that all of his or her desires are  legitimate. Adults, hopefully, know better. And a mature understanding  of fallen humanity recognizes that our fallenness affects everything  from our biology and body chemistry to our ambitions and life loves.  Same-sex attraction is but one manifestation. This is why *Christ  commands us to go and die, and why we must be born again. We must become  new creations, a process that begins at conversion and will be  completed with his coming.  Also, the fact that Jesus is Lord means his authoritative claim on  our lives reaches all the way down, all the way in. We have no right to  stand before him and insist upon our definitions of masculinity,  femininity, marriage, love, and sexuality. He gets to write the  definitions, even when they go against our deepest desires and sense of  self.*

Rooted in biology or not, there is a difference between gender,  ethnicity, and "orientation." Orientation consists primarily of—is lived  out through—desire. And the fact that it involves desire means it is  subject to moral evaluation in a way that "being male" or "being Asian"  are not.
Here is what's often missed: neither  the fact of the desire, nor its possible biological basis, gives it  moral legitimacy. Don't mistake _is_ for _ought_.  We understand this quite well, for instance, when it comes to the  behaviors associated with some forms of substance addiction or bipolar  disorder. The biological component of these maladies certainly calls for  compassion and reams of patience, but it does not make their attendant  behaviors morally legitimate. To assume they do means treating human  beings as just one more animal. No one morally condemns a leopard for  acting instinctually. Yet shouldn't our moral calculations for human  beings involve something more than assent to the biochemistry of desire?  We are more than animals. We are souls and bodies. We are created in  God's image. To legitimize homosexual desire simply because it's natural  or biological, ironically, is to treat a person as less than human.

 All of this is to say, Christianity  not only offers a more mature concept of humanity, it offers a deeper  concept. It says we are more than a composite of our desires, some of  which are fallen, some of which are not.
*Remarkably, Jesus says that our humanity goes deeper even than  marriage and sex, and certainly deeper than fallen versions of them. He  says that, in the resurrection, there will be no marriage or giving in  marriage. Marriage and sex, it appears, are two-dimensional shadows that  point to the three-dimensional realities to come. A person's humanity  and identity in no way finally depends on the shadows of marriage. Dare  we deny the full humanity of Christ because he neither consummated a  marriage nor fathered natural children? Indeed, wasn't the full humanity  of this second Adam demonstrated through begetting a new humanity?*

 There is something inhumane about the homosexual lobby's version of  the human being. It is inhumane to morally evaluate people as if they  are animals whose instincts define them.  And there is something inhumane about the homosexual lobby's quest  for same-sex marriage. *It is inhumane to call bad good, or wrong desires  right. It is inhumane to equate a person with the fallen version of  that person, as if God created us to be the fallen versions of  ourselves. But this is exactly what same-sex marriage asks us to do. It  asks us to publicly affirm the bad as good—to institutionalize the wrong  as right. *

*Christianity says that we are not finally determined by ethnicity,  sex, marriage, or even sinful desire. We are God-imagers and  vice-rulers, tasked with showing the cosmos what God's triune justice,  righteousness, and love are like. The Christian message to the person  engaged in a homosexual lifestyle is that we believe they are even more  human than they believe.*


----------



## Nice & Wavy

*Deeper Love *

 Christianity offers a more mature and deeper concept of love, too.   Love is not fundamentally about a narrative of self-expression and   self-realization. It is not about finding someone who "completes me," in   which I assume that who "I am" is a given, and that you love "me"   authentically only if you respect me exactly as I am, as if "I" is   somehow sacred.

 Christian love is not so naïve. It's much more mature (see 1 Cor. 13:11). *It recognizes how broken people are, and it loves them in their very brokenness. It is given contrary  to  what people deserve. We feed and clothe and befriend them, even  when  they attack us. But then Christian love maturely invites people toward holiness.   Through prayer and disciple-making, Christian love calls people to   change—to repent. Christian love recognizes that our loved ones will   know true joy only as they increasingly conform to the image of God,   because God is love. This is why Jesus tells us that, if we love him, we   will obey his commands, just like he loves the Father and so obeys the   Father's commands.*

Christian love is also deeper than love in our culture. It knows that   true love was demonstrated best when Christ laid down his life for the   church to make her holy, an act which the apostle Paul analogizes to  the  love of a husband and wife and the husband's call to wash his wife  with  the word (Rom. 5:8; Eph. 5:22-32).  *The Bible's central picture of gospel love is lost in same-sex  marriage, just like it's lost when a husband cheats on his wife.**   The progressive position might call the orthodox Christian position   on gay marriage intolerant. But Christians must recognize that the   progressive position is unloving and inhumane. And so we must love them   more truly than they love themselves.* 
*Public Square and Idolatrous Religion*

What then shall we say about the public square?  Shouldn't our  understanding of the separation between church and state  and religious  freedom keep us from "imposing" our ideas upon others?  Why would the  church being the church affect our stance in the public  square among the  non-church?

What people can miss is the distinction between laws  that criminalize  an activity and laws that promote or incentivize an  activity. The laws  surrounding marriage belong to the latter  category. The government gets  involved in the marriage business—to the  chagrin of libertarians—because  it thinks it has some interest in  protecting and promoting marriage. It  sees that marriage contributes to  the order, peace, and good of society  at large. Therefore, it offers  financial incentives for marriage, such  as tax breaks or inheritance  rights.*  In other words, institutionalizing same-sex marriage does  not merely  make government neutral toward unrighteousness; it means the  government  is promoting and incentivizing unrighteousness. *The  2003 Supreme Court  decision to overturn laws that criminalized  homosexual behavior, by  contrast, need not be construed as a promotion  or affirmation of  homosexual behavior. The irony of the progressive  position on same-sex  marriage is that it cloaks its cause in the  language of political  neutrality, when really it is just the opposite.  It is a positive  affirmation of a brand of morality and the whole set  of theological  assumptions behind that morality.  To put this in  biblical terms, *institutionalizing same-sex marriage  is nothing  other than to "give approval to those who practice" the  things that  God's word condemns* (Rom. 1:32). And behind this moral affirmation, Paul tells us, is the religious *"exchanging of the immortal God for images" *(Rom. 1:23). *To establish same-sex marriage, in other words, is an utterly religious act, by virtue of being idolatrous.* 

For the Christian, therefore, the argument is pretty simple: *God will   judge all unrighteousness and idolatry. Therefore Christians should  not  publicly or privately endorse, incentivize, or promote  unrighteousness  and idolatry, which same-sex marriage does. God will  judge such  idolatry—even among those who don't believe in him.*
*
God Will Judge the Nations*

 Let me explain further. Both the Old Testament and the New promise   that God will judge the nations and their governments for departing from   his own standard of righteousness and justice. *The presidents and   parliaments, voters and judges of the world are comprehensively   accountable to him. There is no area of life somehow quarantined off   from his evaluation. * Hence, he judged the people of Noah's day,  Sodom and Gomorrah,  Pharaoh in Egypt, Sennacherib in Assyria,  Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon, and  the list goes on. Just read of his  judgments against the nations in  passages like Isaiah 13-19 or Jeremiah  46-52.

 It's not surprising, therefore, that Psalm 96 and many other passages   make the transnational, omni-partisan nature of God's judgment clear:  *"Say among the nations, 'The LORD reigns.'* *. . . he will judge the  peoples with equity"* (Ps. 96:10; also Ps. 2; Jer. 10:6-10).  Does the same principle apply in the New Testament era? Yes. *The   governors of the world derive their authority from God and will be   judged by God for how they use their authority: Caesar no less than   Nebuchadnezzar; presidents no less than Pharaoh: *


Jesus tells Pilate that Pilate's authority comes from God (John 19).
Paul describes the government as "God's servant" and an "agent" to bring _God's _justice (Rom. 13).
Jesus is described as the "ruler of the kings of the earth" (Rev. 1:5).
Kings, princes, and generals fear the wrath of the Lamb and hide from it (Rev. 6:15).
The kings of the earth are indicted for committing adultery with Babylon the Great (Rev. 18:3).
Christ will come with a sword "to strike down the nations" (Rev. 19:13), leaving the birds "to eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty" (v. 18).
 *God  will judge all nations and  governors. They are politically accountable  to his standard of justice  and righteousness, not to their own  standards. To depart from God's  righteousness and justice—for every  government in the world, Old  Testament and New—is to incur God's wrath.  
*
*The fact that we live in a pluralistic nation in which many do not   acknowledge the God of the Bible makes no difference to God. "Who is the   Lord that I should obey him?" Pharaoh asked. The Lord demonstrated in   short order precisely who he is.* The fact that Americans believe a  government governs "by the will of the people" makes no difference  either. *A  Christian knows that true authority comes from God, and so he  or she  must never promote and incentivize unrighteousness, even if 99  percent  of the electorate asks for it.*


----------



## Nice & Wavy

This does not mean that Christians should enact God's judgment  against   all forms of unrighteousness now, but it does mean that *we  Christians should not publicly or privately put our hands to anything  God will judge on the last day.*   Yes, politics often involves compromise,  and there are times when   Christian voters or politicians will be forced  to decide between a   lesser of two evils. And for such occasions we  trust God is merciful   and understanding. Still, so far as we can help  it,   we must not vote for, rule for, or tell our friends at the office  that   we support unrighteousness.  Does this mean we can impose our faith  upon  non-Christians? No, but  endorsing same-sex marriage is another  kind of  thing. To endorse it is  to involve yourself in unrighteousness  and  false religion, and an  unrighteousness that God promises to  judge. *In fact, same-sex marriage itself is the act of wrongful governmental  imposition.* Martin Luther wrote, "For   when any man does that for which  he has not the previous authority or   sanction of the Word of God, such  conduct is not acceptable to God,  and  may be considered as either vain  or useless." *And God  has  never given human governments the authority to  define marriage. He   defined it in Genesis 2 and has not authorized  anyone to redefine it.   Any government that does is guilty of usurpation.*  Since same-sex marriage is effectively grounded in idolatrous religion (see Rom. 1:23, 32),    its institutionalization represents nothing more or less than the    progressive position's imposition of idolatrous religion upon the rest    of us.  I am not telling Christians how many resources they should   expend in  fighting false gods in the public square, but I am saying   that you must  not join together with those gods. There is no neutral   ground here. 
*
Embrace and Stand Fast*

 Churches should embrace their brothers and sisters who struggle with    same-sex attraction, just like they should embrace all repentant    sinners.
 And churches should stand fast on deeper, more biblical conceptions  of   love by loving the advocates of same-sex marriage more truly than   they  love themselves. We do this by insisting on the sweet and   life-giving  nature of God's truth and holiness.

*In our present cultural context, Christian love will prove costly to    Christians and churches. Even if you recognize the Bible calls    homosexuality sin, but you (wrongly) support same-sex marriage, your    stance on homosexuality will offend. A people's strongest desires—the    desires they refuse to let go of—reveals their worship. To condemn    sexual freedom in America today is to condemn one of the nation's    favorite altars of worship. And will they not fight for their gods?    Will  they not excommunicate all heretics? Whew.....
*
 But even while Scripture promises short-term persecution for the    church, it also, strangely and simultaneously, points to long-term    praise: 





> *"Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that   when  they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds   and  glorify God on the day of visitation"* (1 Peter 2:12). I'm not sure how to explain that, but I trust it.


ETA: I just spoke to dh about this and he explained that this passage is speaking about the Jews who were teaching in that time to the Gentiles, for them to keep their behavior in check so that even if men spoke evil against them, that they will remember what was said and glorify God on the day of Salvation for them.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Love me or dislike me for posting this, but I will proclaim the TRUTH no matter what because that is what I have been chosen to do...in the love of Christ!

N&W


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> What a Word, What a Word, What a Word!   My Lord... Praise the Name of Jesus.
> 
> All we needed is the 'proof' to present our cause before the Lord and before the courts.    Christians are not going to 'tolerate' this.   It's gone too far, way too far.
> 
> It's not like gays do not have other places to patron who will accommodate their sin.  They have numerous gay accommodations.   They 'own' much of them; so why go where their lifestyles are not 'celebrated'?
> 
> They are purposely seeking out businesses who will not patronize them... (yes, PATRONIZE... Kiss up to them.  ) so that they can file suits against them.
> 
> This is wrong on all accounts.  gays know exactly what they are doing.   However, they better watch it, because I'm not playing with my praying.  They will not prevail in this.   In Jesus' Name, everyone who has been victimized by these unlawful, unjustified gay lawsuits will not be able to prevail against the children of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No...   I'm not having it.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither am I sis
Click to expand...


----------



## Galadriel

Nice & Wavy thank you so much for posting that! Very well thought out and a re-affirmation of Biblical principles on what it means to be human, why we need to "die and be born again," and not equate ourselves with the fallen version of ourselves.


----------



## Shimmie

Precious Wavy, thank you so much for your posts above.   I'm still reading and will be sharing this my Pastors as well as the rest of my family.    

I may as well tell you right now... they will all say thank you to you from their hearts...


----------



## Galadriel

Nice & Wavy said:


> *
> God Will Judge the Nations*
> 
> Let me explain further. Both the Old Testament and the New promise   that God will judge the nations and their governments for departing from   his own standard of righteousness and justice. *The presidents and   parliaments, voters and judges of the world are comprehensively   accountable to him. There is no area of life somehow quarantined off   from his evaluation. * Hence, he judged the people of Noah's day,  Sodom and Gomorrah,  Pharaoh in Egypt, Sennacherib in Assyria,  Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon, and  the list goes on. Just read of his  judgments against the nations in  passages like Isaiah 13-19 or Jeremiah  46-52.
> 
> *God  will judge all nations and  governors. They are politically accountable  to his standard of justice  and righteousness, not to their own  standards. To depart from God's  righteousness and justice—for every  government in the world, Old  Testament and New—is to incur God's wrath.
> *
> *The fact that we live in a pluralistic nation in which many do not   acknowledge the God of the Bible makes no difference to God. "Who is the   Lord that I should obey him?" Pharaoh asked. The Lord demonstrated in   short order precisely who he is.* The fact that Americans believe a  government governs "by the will of the people" makes no difference  either. *A  Christian knows that true authority comes from God, and so he  or she  must never promote and incentivize unrighteousness, even if 99  percent  of the electorate asks for it.*



Exactly! When God judges us (upon our individual deaths or when Christ returns), He will justly judge each of us. There is no other god--the True God has already revealed Himself and His will for humanity, and we will all be held accountable for our lives and how we responded to Him.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Galadriel said:


> @Nice & Wavy thank you so much for posting that! Very well thought out and a *re-affirmation of Biblical principles on what it means to be human, why we need to "die and be born again," and not equate ourselves with the fallen version of ourselves.*


You are more than welcome, Galadriel...   Yes, yes, yes at the bolded!!!


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> Precious Wavy, thank you so much for your posts above.   I'm still reading and will be sharing this my Pastors as well as the rest of my family.
> 
> I may as well tell you right now... they will all say thank you to you from their hearts...


You are more than welcome, Shimmie  I'm sure they will be blessed as I was when I read it today.  I couldn't wait to get home and share it here in this thread.

Let them know when they do, that I said..."You are welcome!"


----------



## Nice & Wavy

This stood out to me so much:



> *In our present cultural context, Christian love will prove costly to     Christians and churches. Even if you recognize the Bible calls     homosexuality sin, but you (wrongly) support same-sex marriage, your     stance on homosexuality will offend. A people's strongest desires—the     desires they refuse to let go of—reveals their worship. To condemn     sexual freedom in America today is to condemn one of the nation's     favorite altars of worship. And will they not fight for their gods?     Will  they not excommunicate all heretics?*


----------



## Shimmie

Shimmie said:


> What a Word, What a Word, What a Word!   My Lord... Praise the Name of Jesus.
> 
> All we needed is the 'proof' to present our cause before the Lord and before the courts.    Christians are not going to 'tolerate' this.   It's gone too far, way too far.
> 
> It's not like gays do not have other places to patron who will accommodate their sin.  They have numerous gay accommodations.   They 'own' much of them; so why go where their lifestyles are not 'celebrated'?
> 
> They are purposely seeking out businesses who will not patronize them... (yes, PATRONIZE... Kiss up to them.  ) so that they can file suits against them.
> 
> This is wrong on all accounts.  gays know exactly what they are doing.   However, they better watch it, because I'm not playing with my praying.  They will not prevail in this.   In Jesus' Name, everyone who has been victimized by these unlawful, unjustified gay lawsuits will be vindicated and these gay vindettas will not prosper and will not be able to prevail against the children of God.





Nice & Wavy said:


> Neither am I sis



Amen, Sis... Amen.

I've come too far in Christ Jesus and I've given up much and without any regrets.     Does anyone think for one minute that I'm about to lower my standards and deny Christ who lives within me?    I laid everything aside to be right with God... far from perfection and holiness I am, however I will not revert away from Him, I will not turn back from God.   

I'll beat the fool out of anyone who tries to make me forsake my Lord or tries to sue me for putting God first.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> Amen, Sis... Amen.
> 
> I've come too far in Christ Jesus and I've given up much and without any regrets.     Does anyone think for one minute that I'm about to lower my standards and deny Christ who lives within me?    I laid everything aside to be right with God... far from perfection and holiness I am, however I will not revert away from Him, I will not turn back from God.
> 
> *I'll beat the fool out of anyone* who tries to make me forsake my Lord or tries to sue me for putting God first.


Amen...and as soon as I read your post, I thought of this:









You know I had to do it...sawry, back to being serious


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> You are more than welcome, Shimmie  I'm sure they will be blessed as I was when I read it today.  I couldn't wait to get home and share it here in this thread.
> 
> Let them know when they do, that I said..."You are welcome!"



I surely will....  

Your Ministry is powerful and so healing.  Always well received and understood.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> I surely will....
> 
> Your Ministry is powerful and so healing.  Always well received and understood.


Thank you, sis


----------



## Laela

oh my...THIS

This morning I got a similar Word about Pharaoh's heart being so hardened, even with the frogs all in his bed, he still said "nah, tomorrow". It was delivered humorously -- getting rid of our frogs  -  but it spoke true to what you just shared! Lots of frogs jumping around and our nation isn't fazed. God is good... thank you for sharing that Word





Nice & Wavy said:


> *
> The fact that we live in a pluralistic nation in which many do not   acknowledge the God of the Bible makes no difference to God. "Who is the   Lord that I should obey him?" Pharaoh asked. The Lord demonstrated in   short order precisely who he is. The fact that Americans believe a  government governs "by the will of the people" makes no difference  either. A  Christian knows that true authority comes from God, and so he  or she  must never promote and incentivize unrighteousness, even if 99  percent  of the electorate asks for it.*


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Amen...and as soon as I read your post, I thought of this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know I had to do it...sawry, back to being serious



   I love it....

Here's the thing:   I let go, walked away and did not look back. All in order to have the life that I fought for to have in Christ Jesus.    I know that you know what I mean.   You and many of the other sisters in Christ here.   

To grow in Jesus, we made the choice to forsake ALL others.   We left family and friends, we left homes and endured persecution, we were tested and tried and tried again.... and 'they' these gay activists think that they can STOP me from living this life that I've chosen with Christ Jesus?    

Please!   I fought too hard and too long to have and to live the Grace that God has poured upon me and my children.     I'm in relationship with God and I will not give that up for a 'gay-dom-mized' agenda.   Umm, NO!

And I KNOW that YOU KNOW what I'm talking about!   

I KNOW that there are other women here (and men who are reading this) who know what I'm talking about.

Our walk with God did not come free.   YES, Jesus paid it all, however we still had to work our salvation and live it day in and day out.    We had to rise early / lay late... as we worshipped at home and at Church.    

Hell and High waters came against us, yet we learned how to stand as in Psalm 1... bend with the wind and not fall.  Trees by the waters whose roots did not give way and who branches did not wither.   

2 Corinthians 4...  says we were tossed on every side, yet we were not broken... 

The gays will not win this, they can't.  They don't have the artillery big nor bad enough to come against us and win.  They don't.    It is WE, the children of All Mighty God who have the full Armour of God round about us... we have the sword of the Spirit... the shield of Faith, our feet are shod with the preparation of Peace... it is OUR loins that are girded about with Truth... Our heads are covered with the helmet of Salvation... the Breastplate of Righteousness...

No weapon of any enemy has gain  upon us, none.  NONE... NONE.  

We've been trained by God, preparing us for such a battle as this and we WIN, not them.   God wins through us and to Him be all the Glory.   

We've come too far in Christ Jesus to be forced to turn back ... and we are not turning back.  We are in this battle to win, for Jesus won it on the Cross for each of us.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Laela said:


> oh my...THIS
> 
> This morning I got a similar Word about Pharaoh's heart being so hardened, even with the frogs all in his bed, he still said "nah, tomorrow". It was delivered humorously -- getting rid of our frogs  -  but it spoke true to what you just shared! *Lots of frogs jumping around and our nation isn't fazed. *God is good... thank you for sharing that Word


Wowwwww....that is a good word, Laela!

You are more than welcome, sis


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> I love it....
> 
> Here's the thing:   I let go, walked away and did not look back. All in order to have the life that I fought for to have in Christ Jesus.    I know that you know what I mean.   You and many of the other sisters in Christ here.
> 
> To grow in Jesus, we made the choice to forsake ALL others.   We left family and friends, we left homes and endured persecution, we were tested and tried and tried again.... and 'they' these gay activists think that they can STOP me from living this life that I've chosen with Christ Jesus?
> 
> Please!   I fought too hard and too long to have and to live the Grace that God has poured upon me and my children.     I'm in relationship with God and I will not give that up for a 'gay-dom-mized' agenda.   Umm, NO!
> 
> And I KNOW that YOU KNOW what I'm talking about!
> 
> I KNOW that there are other women here (and men who are reading this) who know what I'm talking about.
> 
> Our walk with God did not come free.   YES, Jesus paid it all, however we still had to work our salvation and live it day in and day out.    We had to rise early / lay late... as we worshipped at home and at Church.
> 
> Hell and High waters came against us, yet we learned how to stand as in Psalm 1... bend with the wind and not fall.  Trees by the waters whose roots did not give way and who branches did not wither.
> 
> 2 Corinthians 4...  says we were tossed on every side, yet we were not broken...
> 
> The gays will not win this, they can't.  They don't have the artillery big nor bad enough to come against us and win.  They don't.    It is WE, the children of All Mighty God who have the full Armour of God round about us... we have the sword of the Spirit... the shield of Faith, our feet are shod with the preparation of Peace... it is OUR loins that are girded about with Truth... Our heads are covered with the helmet of Salvation... the Breastplate of Righteousness...
> 
> No weapon of any enemy has gain  upon us, none.  NONE... NONE.
> 
> We've been trained by God, preparing us for such a battle as this and we WIN, not them.   God wins through us and to Him be all the Glory.
> 
> We've come too far in Christ Jesus to be forced to turn back ... and we are not turning back.  We are in this battle to win, for Jesus won it on the Cross for each of us.


YES, I do KNOW what you are talking about, sis and DITTO every word!!!!


----------



## Shimmie

Laela said:


> oh my...THIS
> 
> This morning I got a similar Word about* Pharaoh's heart being so hardened, even with the frogs all in his bed*, he still said "nah, tomorrow". It was delivered humorously -- getting rid of our frogs  -  but it spoke true to what you just shared! Lots of frogs jumping around and our nation isn't fazed. God is good... thank you for sharing that Word



Oh my...Sleeping with frogs begats warts..._ rib'bit_...


----------



## Shimmie

These words are dangerous...

_ "Who is the Lord that I should obey him?" _


----------



## momi

Shimmie said:


> These words are dangerous...
> 
> "Who is the Lord that I should obey him?"




Amen!!!

I am encouraged to follow Jesus - no turning back. Nothing shall separate me from His love!  Because I love Him by His grace I will continue to keep His commandments.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

@Laela we are unfazed because we are in agreement with the frogs, let them be frogs they're not hurting anybody, they can't help being frogs, some are jaded even ...Lord deliver the people from a seared conscience.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

Nice & Wavy said:


> Love me or dislike me for posting this, but I will proclaim the TRUTH no matter what because that is what I have been chosen to do...in the love of Christ!
> 
> N&W


 

God bless you Real good Nice & Wavy

The word says he came unto His own and His own received him not, sometimes we get more resistance from the saved than from the unsaved, but the truth often offends when it meets sin in the hearts of men.

I encourage you ladies dont look at their faces, dont look to left or right but to the hills from whence cometh your help.  We must continue to speak the unadulterated word in and out of season.

It's posts like these that keep me coming back to this forum.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> God bless you Real good @Nice & Wavy
> 
> The word says he came unto His own and His own received him not, sometimes we get more resistance from the saved than from the unsaved, but the truth often offends when it meets sin in the hearts of men.
> 
> I encourage you ladies dont look at their faces, dont look to left or right but to the hills from whence cometh your help.  We must continue to speak the unadulterated word in and out of season.
> 
> It's posts like these that keep me coming back to this forum.


God bless you too, sis. 

And its posts like yours that keep me here too...for now!


----------



## Belle Du Jour

In Belgium, activists poured holy water on Archbishop Leonard, accused him of homophobia,  and flashed their breasts during a university debate on blasphemy and freedom of expression.  The good archbishop kept his composure, prayed silently and didn't even acknowledge them!


----------



## Belle Du Jour

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3u32f6/


----------



## Laela

wow..that's a great pic of what _focused _looks like! Good for the archbishop...






Belle Du Jour said:


> In Belgium, activists poured holy water on Archbishop Leonard, accused him of homophobia,  and flashed their breasts during a university debate on blasphemy and freedom of expression.  The good archbishop kept his composure, prayed silently and didn't even acknowledge them!


----------



## Laela

They really are.... 




Shimmie said:


> These words are dangerous...
> 
> _ "Who is the Lord that I should obey him?" _


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Belle Du Jour said:


> In Belgium, activists poured holy water on Archbishop Leonard, accused him of homophobia,  and flashed their breasts during a university debate on blasphemy and freedom of expression.  The good archbishop kept his composure, prayed silently and didn't even acknowledge them!


Wow...modern day persecution has come to the Church beginning with the homosexuals, huh?  And they say WE are intolerant???

His stance here reminds me of what I have read about Stephen in the New Testament...before the Lord in prayer during physical persecution.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> In Belgium, activists poured holy water on Archbishop Leonard, accused him of homophobia,  and flashed their breasts during a university debate on blasphemy and freedom of expression.  The good archbishop kept his composure, prayed silently and didn't even acknowledge them!



He's a good man and a wonderful example of wholeness in Christ Jesus.


I on the otherhand...  :hardslap:      

Then pray for their healing...


----------



## Shimmie

momi said:


> Amen!!!
> 
> I am encouraged to follow Jesus - no turning back. Nothing shall separate me from His love!  Because I love Him by His grace I will continue to keep His commandments.





Laela said:


> They really are....



momi Laela....

Even in my most worse state of sin that I've been in,  I still had sense enough to acknowledge God.   

The Bible says, _"Only a fool will say there is no God." _ Pharoah was a prime icon of a fool.


----------



## Laela

!!!






Shimmie said:


> I on the otherhand...  :hardslap:
> 
> Then pray for their healing...


----------



## Blackpearl1993

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> God bless you Real good Nice & Wavy
> 
> The word says he came unto His own and His own received him not, sometimes we get more resistance from the saved than from the unsaved, but *the truth often offends when it meets sin in the hearts of men.
> *
> I encourage you ladies dont look at their faces, dont look to left or right but to the hills from whence cometh your help.  We must continue to speak the unadulterated word in and out of season.
> 
> It's posts like these that keep me coming back to this forum.



THIS! 
That is all.....


----------



## Galadriel

Belle Du Jour said:


> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3u32f6/



Aww, poor Archbishop. I read yesterday about those crazy women running in there in the middle of his speech and hurling water bottles and insults at him. They didn't like the fact that he was pro-life and pro-marriage.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Wow...modern day persecution has come to the Church beginning with the homosexuals, huh?
> 
> And they say WE are intolerant???
> 
> His stance here reminds me of what I have read about Stephen in the New Testament...before the Lord in prayer during physical persecution.



The Bolded is so true.   The gays are the ones who have ALWAYS been the 'intolerant' ones and they have taken it to the ultimate of extremes.   

Here's another Truth:  Do they really and truly believe that they can continue to harass, bully and take away the livlihoods of God's children?   Do they really and truly think that God will allow sin to prevail, let alone win over the Children of God? 

They are giving us the ammonition more than suffient to sue them and reap what they have heaped up.   This is scripture.    

'The wealth of the wicked is laid up for the Just"    Here's a map for the lurkers, it's in Proverbs Chapter 13, Verse 22..   

Here's another map... Joshua 24:13

All of this activism with the gay agen'dites is bound to our favour.

Everything that they are doing is in utter vain; they are simply laying a foundation for God's Children to own and possess. 

God's Word is clear in taking the 'wind' from beneath the wings of the enemy and diffusing his power and unlawful gain. 

These gays cannot sue someone for obeying God and get away with it....  They cannot disrespect / harass a Priest and think that it's okay and that they can go without recompense.   

God inhabits the praises of His children.  The gay agenda that steals the joys and praises of a child of God shall be rendered null and void.    To harass a Priest, a Pastor, a Minister, a Worshiper is a VIP calling card for God's rebuke.

This Priest will be vindicated by the Lord and so will the men and women of God who have been sued by these gay'don'ites.   

I'm praying for the deliverance for those who are gay who will receive God's love and salvation; for the innocent ones who truly have no stake in all of this persecution.  There are gays who truly do not agree with the gay activists and the gay agenda and it's brutality.   There are gays who truly care and respect God, but have simply lost their way and are trying to understand why they feel the way they do.  They are not sexual deviants.   

There are truly gays who uphold justice and believe the Bible and have their hearts bowed to honour God.    They are on their journey to deliverance.  They have a pure soul, a humble heart, a desire to be right with God and will not stop until they get there with Him.   They love Jesus and are not out to change the holy scriptures of the Bible just to fit a gay agenda.    

For these loved ones of God, I pray.  I lift them before our Father in Heaven seeking forgiveness with and for them.   

Thinking not of myself as holy and above them.   But to join with their hearts in loving prayer asking God to forgive us all and to teach us all how to walk as Jesus walked... circumspectly.    

The gay activist have already lost, simply because they are in the wrong arena, fighting the wrong people'.    They don't know our God is for us and not against us.  That's His Word, sealed in the Covenant Blood of Jesus.


----------



## Shimmie

Laela said:


> !!!



Laela...  I can hear you laughing at my post all the way up  here.  

I have no patience with foolishness.    

What makes these women think someone wants to see their 'banana boat' boobs swinging in their face?   That's total disrespect to anyone.   

The Church is not a strip club or mardi gras.   I can tell you they didn't get any beads for their ugly display.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Freedom of speech is only for those who support SSM.  Now, I'm not a fan of Rick Santorum  but he was prohibited from giving a speech at a school because of his marriage views.  And I'm sure you all know that Dr. Ben Carson will not give the keynote address at Hopkins for expressing his support of traditional marriage.  Santurom said: “It’s a sad day when liberal educators are allowed to influence young minds – extending free speech rights only to those who share their liberal views. This has nothing to do with the content of a speech, but rather the context of my convictions.” 

My question is: WHEN did it become WRONG to state your personal religious beliefs???


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Freedom of speech is only for those who support SSM.  Now, I'm not a fan of Rick Santorum  but he was prohibited from giving a speech at a school because of his marriage views.  And I'm sure you all know that Dr. Ben Carson will not give the keynote address at Hopkins for expressing his support of traditional marriage.  Santurom said: “It’s a sad day when liberal educators are allowed to influence young minds – extending free speech rights only to those who share their liberal views. This has nothing to do with the content of a speech, but rather the context of my convictions.”
> 
> My question is: WHEN did it become WRONG to state your personal religious beliefs???



Good Morning Precious Sister...

Two scriptures rose up in my heart when I read your post and there's a 3rd and 4th one lurking... beginning to surface.   

_No man taketh my life, least I lay it down and if I do lay it down, I will raise it back up as my Father in Heaven hath commanded me to.  _ 

Just meditate on this one scripture for a while.  Just meditate upon it.  Then share what's in your heart.  

I'll be in and out of the forum, as I'm still in the process of moving, however, I'm still 'here' for and with you and each of my sisters on this forum.  

In the meantime, ask the Holy Spirit to rise 'alive' these words (above) in your heart.   I'm doing the very same (meditating) on this scripture and it's amazing what God is showing us.     I promise to share later what the Holy Spirit shares with me.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Belle Du Jour said:


> Freedom of speech is only for those who support SSM.  Now, I'm not a fan of Rick Santorum  but he was prohibited from giving a speech at a school because of his marriage views.  And I'm sure you all know that Dr. Ben Carson will not give the keynote address at Hopkins for expressing his support of traditional marriage.  Santurom said: “It’s a sad day when liberal educators are allowed to influence young minds – extending free speech rights only to those who share their liberal views. This has nothing to do with the content of a speech, but rather the context of my convictions.”
> 
> My question is: *WHEN did it become WRONG to state your personal religious beliefs???*


When a person began to recognize and call sin...sin.  It's getting to the point where you can't say anything about these people.  Persecution is on the rise.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> When a person began to recognize and call sin...sin.  *It's getting to the point where you can't say anything about these people.  *Persecution is on the rise.



I know right...   

Precious Wavy and Lady Belle...... The Lord keeps showing me how He stood before Pilate, falsely accused.   The angry crowds behind Him yelling "crucify Him, crucify Him.  Give us (_we choose to save the life of_ ) Barabas, and crucify Him (Jesus) instead.  

Jesus just stood there and spoke not a word..........................................   

......................................  


Until Pilate threw some shade.   (John 19:10-11)

_So Pilate asked him, "Aren't you going to speak to me? You realize, don't you, that I have the authority to release you and the authority to crucify you?"
_

Our Lord Jesus, in ALL Of His Glory and Complete Calm and THE Authority said:

Oooooooooooooo Looik at this---- I know, I know   We all know this, but the Holy Spirit is birthing life into each of us who stand for Him; He's birthing NEW Life into us by His Word...

LOOK!     Look!    Look   

Are you looking?   Let this 'feed' your spirit...

Okay!  Here goes!  Look at Jesus!  

Jesus answered, 

*"You would have no power over me.....*

I wanna Errrr' Body to 'hear' this again....  

*"You would have no power over me.....*

My Lord...      

"You would have no power over me..... if it were not given to you from above. 

*Therefore *


Now look at Jesus' 'therefore'....

*"Therefore, the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."*

Jesus is saying that 'It..DOES... NOT ... MATTER what they don't like what we have to say.   The Truth of God always prevails and there is absolutely nothing and no one who can separate us from the love of God, and His protection.    If God be for us, who can be against us?  With God on our side, we cannot be denied.   The 'Truth' cannot be denied no matter what the agenda of the enemy is.   

God promised that not a hair on our head would perish.  Therefore none of us will have our hair cut off like Samson's.   We will not be separated from God's Blood Covenant over us.  

Come on.... We're used to persecution.   We've been living it from the very moment we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Saviour.   That was our 'Boot Camp' training for this.   I'm serious.   We were in training and we know how to fight and WIN.   

Have you really looked at whom we are in battle with?  Really?  

And *YES*, I just threw some shade....   

They can sue and do all they think, however 'Evil shall not triumph over righteousness.  God needs those of us who will stand and stand we will. 

Belle Du Jour and Nice & Wavy ... I said that I was coming back with something.    I have more.   You know I do.... 

Hi Galadriel    Hi Blackpearl1993   Hi Laela   Rose  Hi Iwanthealthyhair67   Hi pebbles  Hi momi  Hi Sashaa08, Hi donna893

Hi Everybody   

I love you all.   I really do.  

I'm tired as can be from moving into the new place    But I'm on 'fiyah' for Jesus and I've got a Word for it all regarding this mess with the 'agenda' and whatever else.    We don't have time for this.  We have the Lord's work to do.  

:blowkiss:


----------



## pebbles

Hi Shimmie!! I know you're exhausted, poor thing!!  Glad the move is finally over!


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> I know right...
> 
> Precious Wavy and Lady Belle...... The Lord keeps showing me how He stood before Pilate, falsely accused.   The angry crowds behind Him yelling "crucify Him, crucify Him.  Give us (_we choose to save the life of_ ) Barabas, and crucify Him (Jesus) instead.
> 
> Jesus just stood there and spoke not a word..........................................
> 
> ......................................
> 
> 
> Until Pilate threw some shade.   (John 19:10-11)
> 
> _So Pilate asked him, "Aren't you going to speak to me? You realize, don't you, that I have the authority to release you and the authority to crucify you?"
> _
> 
> Our Lord Jesus, in ALL Of His Glory and Complete Calm and THE Authority said:
> 
> Oooooooooooooo Looik at this---- I know, I know   We all know this, but the Holy Spirit is birthing life into each of us who stand for Him; He's birthing NEW Life into us by His Word...
> 
> LOOK!     Look!    Look
> 
> Are you looking?   Let this 'feed' your spirit...
> 
> Okay!  Here goes!  Look at Jesus!
> 
> Jesus answered,
> 
> *"You would have no power over me.....*
> 
> I wanna Errrr' Body to 'hear' this again....
> 
> *"You would have no power over me.....*
> 
> My Lord...
> 
> "You would have no power over me..... if it were not given to you from above.
> 
> *Therefore *
> 
> 
> Now look at Jesus' 'therefore'....
> 
> *"Therefore, the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."*
> 
> Jesus is saying that 'It..DOES... NOT ... MATTER what they don't like what we have to say.   The Truth of God always prevails and there is absolutely nothing and no one who can separate us from the love of God, and His protection.    If God be for us, who can be against us?  With God on our side, we cannot be denied.   The 'Truth' cannot be denied no matter what the agenda of the enemy is.
> 
> God promised that not a hair on our head would perish.  Therefore none of us will have our hair cut off like Samson's.   We will not be separated from God's Blood Covenant over us.
> 
> We're used to persecution.  We've been living it from the very moment we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Saviour.   That was our 'Boot Camp' training for this.   I'm serious.   We were in training and we know how to fight and WIN.
> 
> Have you really looked at whom we are in battle with?  Really?
> 
> And *YES*, I just threw some shade....
> 
> They can sue and do all they think, however 'Evil shall not triumph over righteousness.  God needs those of us who will stand and stand we will.
> 
> @Belle Du Jour and @Nice & Wavy ... I said that I was coming back with something.    I have more.   You know I do....
> 
> Hi @Galadriel    Hi @Blackpearl1993   Hi @Laela   Rose  Hi @Iwanthealthyhair67   Hi @pebbles
> 
> Hi Everybody
> 
> I love you all.   I really do.
> 
> I'm tired as can be from moving into the new place    But I'm on 'fiyah' for Jesus and I've got a Word for it all regarding this mess with the 'agenda' and whatever else.    We don't have time for this.  We have the Lord's work to do.
> 
> :blowkiss:


Yes, yes, yes...Shimmie!!!   I hear you and can't wait to hear the rest!!!!!


----------



## Nice & Wavy

pebbles said:


> Hi Shimmie!! I know you're exhausted, poor thing!!  Glad the move is finally over!



Hey Pebbles   Miss you, girlie!!! 

Ok...will let you go put out some fires....


----------



## Shimmie

pebbles said:


> Hi Shimmie!! I know you're exhausted, poor thing!!  Glad the move is finally over!



pebbles ... Hey Love... Indeed I am exhausted, but somehow, I'm all fired up with the Word of God approaching one million degrees in this right now.  

But Pebs, isn't God's Word so awesome and on time.  Who is 'man' that we should be afraid of him?'   God said this.   He said it to encourage us to keep teaching and preaching the truth.    I've been through the fire, the flood and the mud, Boot Camp.   I haven't stopped yet...I've only gotten more fired up. 

Anyhoo...

I'll be back on the forum on the regular soon.   

Pebs, I promise the 'shade' will be light'    ( I'll try anyway)


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

it's time to stand for righteousness ...


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Yes, yes, yes...Shimmie!!!   I hear you and can't wait to hear the rest!!!!!



Hey Precious Wavy...  

Give hubby a hug.  Tell him, I'm not backing down from any 'agenda'.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

Actually its long overdue we are living in the end times and this is only the begining, the 'true' people of God will say the same as God regardless of the consequences, those who shrank back in fear shrink back no more, those who tolerated to be politically correct it time to choose whose side your on, who is on the Lord's side?

God wants people who are 'hot' for him not cold or lukewarm, who is on the Lord's side.


----------



## Shimmie

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> it's time to stand for righteousness ...



 Iwanthealthyhair67 

You know, a lot of people may think that my skin is brown via my parents DNA.

Nope!  

I've been in the 'fire'.  The persecution fire that comes from standing and proclaiming God's Word.    The battle is always the Lord's and He wins everytime.


----------



## pebbles

Hey N&W!  How are you, sis? It's always good to see you guys. It's so busy, I don't get to come here on the quiet side too often.  Work is so busy, and I'm getting ready to go away this Saturday with my sisters and cousins for a week of R&R  

Shimmie darling, The word of God gives us the right to stand on the truth and be bold about it. We ain't got to be scured of nobody, ya heard?! LOL!!!  You keep doing you, ok?


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

Shimmie praise Jesus!

I read the end of the book and WE WIN.


----------



## Shimmie

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> Actually its long overdue we are living in the end times and this is only the begining, the 'true' people of God will say the same as God regardless of the consequences, those who shrank back in fear shrink back no more, those who tolerated to be politically correct it time to choose whose side your on, who is on the Lord's side?
> 
> God wants people who are 'hot' for him not cold or lukewarm, who is on the Lord's side.



Healthy Hair. you are so ON POINT!   God is weeding out those who will stand and not give in to the pressure.  

Praise God for this Word.... Amen!    

When we put spagetti in hot boiling water, immediately it begins to wimp out.  And all of the starch rises to the top.   All of it's components are lost.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

Who is on the Lord's side?


----------



## Nice & Wavy

pebbles said:


> Hey N&W!  How are you, sis? It's always good to see you guys. It's so busy, I don't get to come here on the quiet side too often.  Work is so busy, and I'm getting ready to go away this Saturday with my sisters and cousins for a week of R&R
> 
> Shimmie darling, The word of God gives us the right to stand on the truth and be bold about it. We ain't got to be scured of nobody, ya heard?! LOL!!!  You keep doing you, ok?


I am doing well...praise the name of the Lord!!!  Oh, have a wonderful time....you deserve it!!!


----------



## pebbles

Thanks, sis!


----------



## Nice Lady

Shimmie said:


> pebbles ... Hey Love... Indeed I am exhausted, but somehow, I'm all fired up with the Word of God approaching one million degrees in this right now.
> 
> But Pebs, isn't God's Word so awesome and on time.  Who is 'man' that we should be afraid of him?'   God said this.   He said it to encourage us to keep teaching and preaching the truth.    *I've been through the fire, the flood and the mud, Boot Camp.*   I haven't stopped yet...I've only gotten more fired up.
> 
> Anyhoo...
> 
> I'll be back on the forum on the regular soon.
> 
> Pebs, I promise the 'shade' will be light'    ( I'll try anyway)



Shimmie, dear heart, it is so great that you have decided to stand up for God's Word. *The doers of the Word are blessed especially the ones that contend to perserve values that promote the well-being of human beings.*  A double-minded person hears the *Word and does the opposite. Also, says the opposite.  Basically, contradictory in everything*. Stick with your stance:

*Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.​*


----------



## Shimmie

Nice Lady said:


> Shimmie, dear heart, it is so great that you have decided to stand up for God's Word. *The doers of the Word are blessed especially the ones that contend to perserve values that promote the well-being of human beings.*  A double-minded person hears the *Word and does the opposite. Also, says the opposite.  Basically, contradictory in everything*. Stick with your stance:
> 
> *Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.​*



You must be new here.   I made my decision 30 years ago and I've never looked back.


----------



## Shimmie

pebbles said:


> Hey N&W!  How are you, sis? It's always good to see you guys. It's so busy, I don't get to come here on the quiet side too often.  Work is so busy, and I'm getting ready to go away this Saturday with my sisters and cousins for a week of R&R
> 
> Shimmie darling, The word of God gives us the right to stand on the truth and be bold about it. We ain't got to be scured of nobody, ya heard?! LOL!!!  You keep doing you, ok?



pebbles... it's only quiet over here cause I've been busy moving...  


Just kidding...

Enjoy your trip....


----------



## Nice Lady

Shimmie said:


> You must _be new here_.   I made my decision 30 years ago and I've never looked back.





Nope, I read the thread. I wrote about that today in the blog highlighting that Scripture verse: *you let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet you have brought us out to a place of abundance. * I was just congratulating you on your stance and not wavering(or being double-minded--saying one thing but doing another & hearing the Word).  You seem to be in tune...


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> @pebbles... *it's only quiet over here cause I've been busy moving..*.
> 
> 
> Just kidding...
> 
> Enjoy your trip....


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


>


----------



## Shimmie

Nice Lady said:


> Nope, I read the thread. I wrote about that today in the blog highlighting that Scripture verse: *you let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet you have brought us out to a place of abundance. * I was just congratulating you on your stance and not wavering(or being double-minded--saying one thing but doing another & hearing the Word).  You seem to be in tune...



That scripture is a blessing.  Thanks for posting it.  It confirms what was on my heart.    Thanks for post.   I'm silly and tired from moving, it's a wonder I can type with few typos.   

Thanks again.   I have to read your blog when things get settled.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


>


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


>





I'm so tired right now, that if someone were to try and stop me from speaking out against gay marriage, they'd wish they'd have left it alone.  

They'd be broke and on the corner, from me suing them and winning.


----------



## Leigh

Belle Du Jour said:


> Freedom of speech is only for those who support SSM.  Now, I'm not a fan of Rick Santorum  but he was prohibited from giving a speech at a school because of his marriage views.  And I'm sure you all know that Dr. Ben Carson will not give the keynote address at Hopkins for expressing his support of traditional marriage.  Santurom said: “It’s a sad day when liberal educators are allowed to influence young minds – extending free speech rights only to those who share their liberal views. This has nothing to do with the content of a speech, but rather the context of my convictions.”
> 
> My question is: WHEN did it become WRONG to state your personal religious beliefs???



This has been happening for years.  In my day, creationism was not allowed to be taught but the Big Bang theory was.  It's more of the same.  

But you are wrong. Freedom of speech is for everyone. We just have to get out there and stand firm.  Saying the same things that they do " we have rights and one of those is the freedom to believe in God..., and then we can bring it on home since we have legal precedent regarding Christianity being a part of the American ancestry...."

And we can believe whatever we want.  It's our constitutional right.  It's all in the presentation.  Present it based on law not emotion.


----------



## Laela

Yup yup Shimmie... that is powerful Word!




Shimmie said:


> I know right...
> 
> Precious Wavy and Lady Belle...... The Lord keeps showing me how He stood before Pilate, falsely accused.   The angry crowds behind Him yelling "crucify Him, crucify Him.  Give us (_we choose to save the life of_ ) Barabas, and crucify Him (Jesus) instead.
> 
> Jesus just stood there and spoke not a word..........................................
> 
> ......................................
> 
> 
> Until Pilate threw some shade.   (John 19:10-11)
> 
> _So Pilate asked him, "Aren't you going to speak to me? You realize, don't you, that I have the authority to release you and the authority to crucify you?"
> _
> 
> Our Lord Jesus, in ALL Of His Glory and Complete Calm and THE Authority said:
> 
> Oooooooooooooo Looik at this---- I know, I know   We all know this, but the Holy Spirit is birthing life into each of us who stand for Him; He's birthing NEW Life into us by His Word...
> 
> LOOK!     Look!    Look
> 
> Are you looking?   Let this 'feed' your spirit...
> 
> Okay!  Here goes!  Look at Jesus!
> 
> Jesus answered,
> 
> *"You would have no power over me.....*
> 
> I wanna Errrr' Body to 'hear' this again....
> 
> *"You would have no power over me.....*
> 
> My Lord...
> 
> "You would have no power over me..... if it were not given to you from above.
> 
> *Therefore *
> 
> 
> Now look at Jesus' 'therefore'....
> 
> *"Therefore, the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."*
> 
> Jesus is saying that 'It..DOES... NOT ... MATTER what they don't like what we have to say.   The Truth of God always prevails and there is absolutely nothing and no one who can separate us from the love of God, and His protection.    If God be for us, who can be against us?  With God on our side, we cannot be denied.   The 'Truth' cannot be denied no matter what the agenda of the enemy is.
> 
> God promised that not a hair on our head would perish.  Therefore none of us will have our hair cut off like Samson's.   We will not be separated from God's Blood Covenant over us.
> 
> Come on.... We're used to persecution.   We've been living it from the very moment we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Saviour.   That was our 'Boot Camp' training for this.   I'm serious.   We were in training and we know how to fight and WIN.
> 
> Have you really looked at whom we are in battle with?  Really?
> 
> And *YES*, I just threw some shade....
> 
> They can sue and do all they think, however 'Evil shall not triumph over righteousness.  God needs those of us who will stand and stand we will.
> 
> Belle Du Jour and Nice & Wavy ... I said that I was coming back with something.    I have more.   You know I do....
> 
> Hi Galadriel    Hi Blackpearl1993   Hi Laela   Rose  Hi Iwanthealthyhair67   Hi pebbles  Hi momi  Hi Sashaa08, Hi donna893
> 
> Hi Everybody
> 
> I love you all.   I really do.
> 
> I'm tired as can be from moving into the new place    But I'm on 'fiyah' for Jesus and I've got a Word for it all regarding this mess with the 'agenda' and whatever else.    We don't have time for this.  We have the Lord's work to do.
> 
> :blowkiss:


----------



## Belle Du Jour

US Catholic Bishops are calling for national praying, penance, and fasting for marriage:

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...ation/year-of-faith/life-marriage-liberty.cfm


----------



## Nice Lady

*I thought I would just post this because Shimmie & other women pay attention and pray about these issues:
*

*US: Supreme Court ruling on equal marriage cases expected imminently*

 			by Joseph Patrick McCormick 
6 June 2013, 3:56pm

The US Supreme Court is expected to rule on two cases surround equal  marriage, in the next three weeks, potentially making a groundbreaking  ruling for equal marriage in the state of California, and the whole of  the US.


The court is to rule on the constitutionality of California’s  Proposition 8, which bans equal marriage in the state, and the Defense  of Marriage Act (DOMA), which federally bans equal marriage.


On  the first day of hearings in March, the court heard arguments around  Proposition 8, the state of California’s ban on equal marriage. Then the  justices questioned the meaning of marriage, and challenged arguments  for the ban. 


On  the second day of hearings, several of the Supreme Court  Justices raised concerns around DOMA, and some took that as a sign that  there may be a narrow majority who will strike it down.


It is expected that the court will either overturn the bans, or it  will refuse to rule in the cases, which would mean they would remain  intact.


Reports suggest that officials in California had begun to prepare for  the resumption of same-sex ceremonies, in case the Supreme Court rules  to strike down Proposition 8.


If Proposition 8 is upheld by the court it is expected that  supporters of equal marriage will attempt to put a question on the  ballot in 2014 or 2016, to restore same-sex marriage.


If the Supreme Court Justices strike down the Defense of Marriage Act  as unconstitutional, benefits would be available to married same-sex  couples in California, and the nine states and Washington DC, which  currently allow same-sex marriage. Equal marriage becomes legal in Rhode  Island, Delaware and Minnesota, in the summer.


The Supreme Court does not announce its decision date ahead of time,  so its ruling could come any time in the next three weeks. Rulings are  traditionally made on Mondays, but can also be handed down later in the  week.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice Lady said:


> *I thought I would just post this because Shimmie & other women pay attention and pray about these issues:
> *
> 
> *US: Supreme Court ruling on equal marriage cases expected imminently*
> 
> by Joseph Patrick McCormick
> 6 June 2013, 3:56pm
> 
> The US Supreme Court is expected to rule on two cases surround equal  marriage, in the next three weeks, potentially making a groundbreaking  ruling for equal marriage in the state of California, and the whole of  the US.
> 
> 
> The court is to rule on the constitutionality of California’s  Proposition 8, which bans equal marriage in the state, and the Defense  of Marriage Act (DOMA), which federally bans equal marriage.
> 
> 
> On  the first day of hearings in March, the court heard arguments around  Proposition 8, the state of California’s ban on equal marriage. Then the  justices questioned the meaning of marriage, and challenged arguments  for the ban.
> 
> 
> On  the second day of hearings, several of the Supreme Court  Justices raised concerns around DOMA, and some took that as a sign that  there may be a narrow majority who will strike it down.
> 
> 
> It is expected that the court will either overturn the bans, or it  will refuse to rule in the cases, which would mean they would remain  intact.
> 
> 
> Reports suggest that officials in California had begun to prepare for  the resumption of same-sex ceremonies, in case the Supreme Court rules  to strike down Proposition 8.
> 
> 
> If Proposition 8 is upheld by the court it is expected that  supporters of equal marriage will attempt to put a question on the  ballot in 2014 or 2016, to restore same-sex marriage.
> 
> 
> If the Supreme Court Justices strike down the Defense of Marriage Act  as unconstitutional, benefits would be available to married same-sex  couples in California, and the nine states and Washington DC, which  currently allow same-sex marriage. Equal marriage becomes legal in Rhode  Island, Delaware and Minnesota, in the summer.
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court does not announce its decision date ahead of time,  so its ruling could come any time in the next three weeks. Rulings are  traditionally made on Mondays, but can also be handed down later in the  week.



Thank you Nice Lady.   I appreciate you sharing this update and alerting us to prayer.  It really matters.   

Thanks so much.   God bless you.   :Rose:


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Despite media sensationalism, I believe more people support traditional marriage than gay marriage. Many are afraid to speak out. If SCOTUS rules in favor if SSM, there will be a loud outcry.


----------



## Nice Lady

Shimmie said:


> Thank you Nice Lady.   I appreciate you sharing this update and alerting us to prayer.  It really matters.
> 
> Thanks so much.   God bless you.   :Rose:



Thanks!


----------



## momi

Belle Du Jour said:


> Despite media sensationalism, I believe more people support traditional marriage than gay marriage. Many are afraid to speak out. If SCOTUS rules in favor if SSM, there will be a loud outcry.



I agree Belle ...


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Despite media sensationalism, I believe more people support traditional marriage than gay marriage. Many are afraid to speak out. If SCOTUS rules in favor if SSM, there will be a loud outcry.



Lady Belle, this is so true.  The media's strategy is to 'silence' those who do not support the gay agenda.  

And when you consider the 'source' of those who speak the loudest and push the hardest to make seem as if gay support is universally undivided, it is beyond any doubt that there are more that be with us, than those that be with them.  

Dear Lord, please open their eyes that 'ALL' will see...there's far more who honour you and are 'standing' for you than those who do not.   

In Jesus' Name,  we thank you Father God for taking your 'win' in this and your glory.   Amen.


----------



## LifeafterLHCF

I can't believe I'm feeling this way but I don't believe in gay marriage and feel it's abomination to God. I also feel that way about divorce and other things. I use to support homosexuals in the sense that you do you and I do me, but God. I don't shame anyone bc I'm no one to judge and never will be. However, I know what is right and wrong and will align with God's plan for marriage and life.


----------



## Shimmie

Lady Belle...

The other night the movie "Evan All Mighty" was on.   It was a comic take on 'Noah' and the Ark'.   Yet, there are hidden messages in this movie which are not comic at all.    

This is what I noticed: 

The sub-plot of this movie was surrounded by a political scam.  A political scheme with ruthless politicians and legislators voting on an issue to their selfish gain.  

As the _ruthless scabs_ were about to 'vote' on the issue' (which they thought would win and rule), the 'Ark' came crashing into the assembly room, at the very table where the ruthless 'scabs' were positioned to vote.   

They were 'stopped' -- halted -- derailed --- 'Dead Center'.   They were not  able to vote on the issue. 

Lady Belle, I had absolutely no intention of watching this movie.  None!  I'm still in the process of unpacking from my recent move; and I'm very busy preparing for my family's visit in a few weeks.    So I have no time for TV or anything.    

I had no clue that this movie was scheduled to air.  And I'm not going to get all 'deep' and 'ritual' and say that God spoke to _Shimmie _and said, 'Watch this movie'     No way.    

However, the message was so evident.  Because as soon as I saw that the 'Ark' was headed in the direction of the legislators, it was as if God purposely headed in that direction to make a powerful statement...

* God is not playing games with this.  *

He is not playing games.  

Check this out:   

The recent attempt for the legislators in Illinois to legalize gay marriage went 'null and void'.   The vote never went to the 'table'.   It didn't matter that the President and Bill Clinton and em' rallying for it and quite heavily.   The vote never went to the table.  

* God is not playing games with this.  *

God is not playing 'patty cake' with Marriage.  He has originated and ordained it between One Man and One Woman.   And this is how He intends for it to be.   

God may not use an 'Ark' to crash through the gates of those who are voting against Him, but I can see Him stopping hearts.   I can literally see God stopping the hearts of those who refuse to listen and have the evil intent of pushing this agenda upon innocent children and upon those who love and serve Him.   

This is not a game; it is just that serious and to those who oppose, it doesn't matter.   They have a choice and a warning to leave Pure Marriage alone, the way that God intended it to be.    All they have to do is hear God's heart and just leave it alone.  

I pray that they listen and take heed to God's warning.  I wish no harm upon anyone, nor does God.  He loves all of His creation.  He sent Jesus to prove this.   

_'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son... to save us all.  _ 

Father open their eyes and hearts that they will see and not choose for this evil vote to be.  

In Jesus' Name.


----------



## Shimmie

GoddessMaker said:


> I can't believe I'm feeling this way but I don't believe in gay marriage and feel it's abomination to God. I also feel that way about divorce and other things. I use to support homosexuals in the sense that you do you and I do me, but God. I don't shame anyone bc I'm no one to judge and never will be. However, I know what is right and wrong and will align with God's plan for marriage and life.



The closer we are to God, the more we want what He wants and not want what He doesn't want. 

Your heart is open to His.   We can love any person living the gay lifestyle for God loves them too.   We just don't 'agree' with it.  

And we don't agree with it being discussed with other people's children   That is a parent /child discussion between the actual parents and child, not the gay agenda/activists who come into the schools with their foolishness. 

I may not like pinto beans, but I hate a person who eats them.  I just don't like their farts.  :fart:   gay marriage is a huge fart which should never be allowed in the air we breathe. 










GoddessMaker... I'm sorry.   When I'm tired I get silly.


----------



## PinkPebbles

I thank you ladies for this thread and keeping us informed. 

I shared the information with some prayer intercessors at my church and we have begun to pray for God's intervention to destroy the works of the enemy, and that same sex marriage will become null and void in the name of Jesus.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

UPDATE: SCOTUS decision to be given tomorrow at 10am. We need to pray tonight y'all...


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Belle Du Jour said:


> UPDATE: SCOTUS decision to be given tomorrow at 10am. We need to pray tonight y'all...



Thank you for the reminder Belle. I'll be praying about this.


----------



## momi

Belle Du Jour said:


> UPDATE: SCOTUS decision to be given tomorrow at 10am. We need to pray tonight y'all...




Yes.... 

Should they rule in opposition to traditional marriage the United States will have reached the point of no return.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

momi said:


> Yes....
> 
> Should they rule in opposition to traditional marriage the United States will have reached the point of no return.



God's will be done. In Jesus name.


----------



## Shimmie

To All Who Are in Christ Jesus 

Be Encouraged... God Always Wins.   No Court can ever overrule the Lord our God whose foundation for Marriage is 'set' and is forever settled in Heaven and here on earth.

It's not the United States who is in trouble, but those within who are supporting this sin.   Graceful Difference.

The Word of God has ultimate power no matter who denies or disrespects it.  God Word will always rule and it does not return unto God as unproductive.  

These Words are still ruling and reigning in the earth and they always will: 


:Rose: _But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 

So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s rib and then closed up the place with flesh. 

Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called ‘woman,’

for she was taken out of man.”

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame._.:Rose:


This will never be 'overruled'... not ever!  

Marriage will always be 'One Man, One Woman' ... God's Only Will and Plan.  

Any other is an automatic 'Veto' by 'Nature' its self.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

My soul is grieved over the ruling but I'm not surprised. Time to be prayed up. Things will be volatile very soon.


----------



## mensa

America is t.o.a.s.t.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Expect unprecedented catastrophies to happen here. God will not be mocked. When untold trouble starts here, then they will run to church, quote Bible verses, sing hymns and seek him. But he said today when you hear my voice harden not your heart. It will be too late.

Some Christians will perish in these horrible tragedys but their souls will be with the Lord. I warned my husband and my kids to be sure to stay with Jesus Christ so that no matter what happens they will be with him.

These folk will celebrate and rejoice but it will not be for long. Their laughter will turn to wailing and great sorrow.  I am not making this up.  We cannot willfully continue to sin and think that God will continue to look away, and allow us to live in wickedness.

America is t.o.a.s.t.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Nice & Wavy

I am not surprised...the devil has the mind of man in America.

Lift up your heads...hold them high and proclaim the name of tge Lord for those who are not in Jesus Christ will feel God's wrath...but, we will be protected.  Amen.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Yesterday at mass, part of the gospel was from Jesus' discourse about the narrow gate. "Wide is the gate that leads to destruction..." This country is walking through the wide gate and from Jesus's own mouth, we know that many will perish. He said the Way is narrow and FEW find it.   I have to turn inward now and focus on what i can do in my own life and in the lives of those around me. More than ever, I want to stay on that narrow path. Be encouraged ladies! You know you are on the right path because the world rejects it. Jesus is coming back for His pure bride. Fight the fight of faith.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

The saints of the Most High God will be covered and protected from the wiles and fiery darts of the wicked in Jesus name.

Psalms 112:6-8 ESV

For the righteous will never be moved; he will be remembered forever. He is not afraid of bad news; his heart is firm, trusting in the Lord . His heart is steady; he will not be afraid, until he looks in triumph on his adversaries.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

I realized something. Yes the sodomite agenda is attack on Judeo-Christian values and a reflection of hatred for Jesus Christ, but it's also an attack on homosexuals. The more they can make them comfortable and give them rights and make them feel justified (while silencing the voice of the Christian) the easier it will be for people to perish, never repenting of this sin. I pray for homosexuals. Some of them do hate the lifestyle and want to get out but everything in the world is seeking to keep them bound in it, forcing them to believe they cant change. The laws will be what they will be at this point. Its the souls we need to pray for, not just the laws.


----------



## mensa

Mrs.Haseeb-I never thought of it that way.  You bring up a very good point.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

http://www.hli.org/news/1168-hli-president-scotus-rulings-dont-change-true-definition-of-marriage



> "We must continue to demand that our political leaders recognize and protect this most natural institution especially in this time of intense bigotry and discrimination toward those who defend marriage in the public square,” said Father Boquet.
> 
> “Most Americans know that this debate over marriage will never ultimately be settled by the Court, for at least two reasons,” said Father Boquet. “First, those who are leading the assault on marriage have demonstrated again and again their disdain for laws that defend marriage and for the will of those with whom they disagree. Theirs is a crusade against both faith and reason, and they are no more likely to stop with a court decision than are the defenders of marriage.”
> 
> “Second,” he said, “the definition of marriage is not determined by any court or any legislative vote. A just nation recognizes and upholds the true meaning of marriage for the common good of the people and the institutions of the nation.”


----------



## Belle Du Jour

http://www.nomblog.com/35831



> "In a miscarriage of justice the US Supreme Court has refused to consider the decision of a single federal court judge to overturn the perfectly legal action of over 7 million California voters who passed Proposition 8 defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman," said Brain Brown, NOM's president. "The Supreme Court's holding that proponents of an initiative had no legal right to appeal ignores California law and rewards corrupt politicians for abandoning their duty to defend traditional marriage laws. It's imperative that Congress continue to preserve the right of states to protect true marriage and refuse to recognize faux marriages performed in other states or countries."
> 
> Proposition 8 was passed with over 52% of the vote, capturing the support of over 7 million California voters. Because they opposed the measure and receive political support from homosexual groups and activists, both then-Attorney General (now Governor) Jerry Brown and his successor, Attorney General Kamala Harris, refused to defend Proposition 8. The case was heard by a homosexual judge in San Francisco who himself was engaged in a long-term same-sex relationship. To nobody's surprise, the judge invalidated Proposition 8. This decision was upheld by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in an opinion written by liberal judge Stephen Reinhardt, despite the fact that Reinhardt's wife advised the plaintiff lawyers in this very case. Reinhardt refused to recuse himself from the case.
> 
> "There is a stench coming from this case that has now stained the Supreme Court. They've allowed corrupt politicians and judges to betray the voters, rewarding them for their betrayal. It's an illegitimate decision. We and millions of other Americans will refuse to accept this rogue decision rewarding corruption. " Brown said.


----------



## sweetvi

They were singing God Bless America..... Smh


----------



## MrsHaseeb

sweetvi said:


> They were singing God Bless America..... Smh



They are celebrating their own demise. The Lord will pull those out that are His from the foundation of the world. The rest will be destroyed. While that doesn't make me happy, the Bible has forecasted it. No need to lie to myself about it.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

There is no need for us to get worked up over today's Supreme Court  decision. Changing definitions does not change Truth. Calling a dung  pile a donut won't make it taste sweet. Don't argue over it or focus on  it. Calm your hearts, and pray for the deceived millions who will die  without hope and be doomed, unless we love them into the  Kingdom of our  Lord Christ. "Straight people don't go to Heaven. Only REDEEMED  people..." Sy Rogers


----------



## Nice & Wavy

MrsHaseeb said:


> I realized something. Yes the sodomite agenda is attack on Judeo-Christian values and a reflection of hatred for Jesus Christ, but it's also an attack on homosexuals. *The more they can make them comfortable and give them rights and make them feel justified (while silencing the voice of the Christian) the easier it will be for people to perish, never repenting of this sin. I pray for homosexuals.* Some of them do hate the lifestyle and want to get out but everything in the world is seeking to keep them bound in it, forcing them to believe they cant change. The laws will be what they will be at this point. Its the souls we need to pray for, not just the laws.


Your post is right on....

satan....devouring many.  That's what roaring lions do.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Belle Du Jour said:


> Yesterday at mass, part of the gospel was from Jesus's discourse about the narrow gate. "Wide is the gate that leads to destruction..." This country is walking through the wide gate and from Jesus's own mouth, we know that many will perish. He said the Way is narrow and FEW find it.  *I have to turn inward now and focus on what i can do in my own life and in the lives of those around me.* More than ever, I want to stay on that narrow path. Be encouraged ladies! You know you are on the right path because the world rejects it. Jesus is coming back for His pure bride. Fight the fight of faith.


Amen....


----------



## Nice & Wavy

momi said:


> Yes....
> 
> Should they rule in opposition to traditional marriage the United States will have *reached the point of no return*.


You are so right...


----------



## momi

mensa said:


> Mrs.Haseeb-I never thought of it that way.  You bring up a very good point.




Me either mensa.  It makes the situation even more grievous.


----------



## momi

Nice & Wavy said:


> There is no need for us to get worked up over today's Supreme Court  decision. Changing definitions does not change Truth. Calling a dung  pile a donut won't make it taste sweet. *Don't argue over it or focus on  it.* Calm your hearts, and pray for the deceived millions who will die  without hope and be doomed, unless we love them into the  Kingdom of our  Lord Christ. "Straight people don't go to Heaven. Only REDEEMED  people..." Sy Rogers




I admit that I am not doing much of the above.  Lord help me.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

momi said:


> I admit that I am not doing much of the above.  Lord help me.


You are not alone...


----------



## Blackpearl1993

I am deeply saddened. Deeply, deeply saddened. Words just cannot express how I feel right now. I am not shocked, just saddened. I am saddened for my children, for those of us who know THE TRUTH (the one and only truth), and for homosexuals as well. While Mrs. Haseeb is right and there are homosexuals who want out of that choice of lifestyle, I am especially saddened for those who have been deceived into believing that this type of lifestyle if perfectly normal and that people are born into the lifestyle rather than choosing the lifestyle. I know that this court ruling will not change God's will and that these types of rulings are to be expected in a fallen world. It doesn't change, however, the way that this breaks my heart.


----------



## Nice & Wavy




----------



## mensa

Nice & Wavy thanks for admonishing us.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


>



  to the Truth.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

mensa said:


> Nice & Wavy thanks for admonishing us.


You are welcome, sis 



Blackpearl1993 said:


> I am deeply saddened. Deeply, deeply saddened. Words just cannot express how I feel right now. I am not shocked, just saddened. I am saddened for my children, for those of us who know THE TRUTH (the one and only truth), and for homosexuals as well. While Mrs. Haseeb is right and there are homosexuals who want out of that choice of lifestyle, I am especially saddened for those who have been deceived into believing that this type of lifestyle if perfectly normal and that people are born into the lifestyle rather than choosing the lifestyle. I know that this court ruling will not change God's will and that these types of rulings are to be expected in a fallen world. It doesn't change, however, the way that this breaks my heart.


 I understand


----------



## mensa

My husband said that after watching 1 gay man propose to another and the man saying yes, that we now live in Sodom and Gomorrah.  Hubby also said that now the door will be open for beastiality, polygamy and every other sexual perversion.


----------



## nathansgirl1908

America has gotten on my nerves this week between this, the voting rights act ruling, and the Paula Deen debacle.  I'm surprised at the court ruling about the gay issues because reports from oral arguments made it seem like the justices were leaning the other way. 

I'm just resigned to keep believing the way I have been. I have more and more Christian friends who are now saying that even though gay marriage is a sin, they deserve equality.  I don't agree with that thought process.


----------



## Laela

Apropos, for the state of the union:



> "_Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."_
> -- - Archibishop Chaput, of Philadelphia


----------



## Shimmie

mensa said:


> America is t.o.a.s.t.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Expect unprecedented catastrophies to happen here. God will not be mocked. When untold trouble starts here, then they will run to church, quote Bible verses, sing hymns and seek him. But he said today when you hear my voice harden not your heart. It will be too late.
> 
> Some Christians will perish in these horrible tragedys but their souls will be with the Lord. I warned my husband and my kids to be sure to stay with Jesus Christ so that no matter what happens they will be with him.
> 
> These folk will celebrate and rejoice but it will not be for long. Their laughter will turn to wailing and great sorrow.  I am not making this up.  We cannot willfully continue to sin and think that God will continue to look away, and allow us to live in wickedness.
> 
> America is t.o.a.s.t.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



 

We are actually going to see a 'turn' of consequences.  The 'one's responsible, will be the one's 'toasted'.     

You see, none of the natural disasters have changed the hearts of those in legislation and others who are pushing this agenda further.    Natural disasters have yet to stop them.   It has never gotten their attention, nor their hearts bowed down unto God.  

Did Katrina stop this?  Did the recent east coast earthquake?  Did the recent 'Frankenstorm', Hurricane Sandy stop and get their attention?  What about the recent wild fires in Colorado?  The tornadoes in the Midwest? 

Uh-uh...    they still went about their evil works, not an eyelash touched their brows.  They never 'looked' up to give God reverence, for it did not directly 'attack' them, hence it did not stop them; they had no change of heart.   

The 'consequences' shall be upon them, directly...each one, each key one responsible.   They will begin to 'fall' as flies off a wall.   

Hear this!  Hear it!  

The very moment they come after the Church to try and slience her...watch for 'instant' judgment upon them.   No more innocent lives paying the price of these workers of iniquity, for the innocent are not the blame.  

gay sex  has a judgment of it's own.   Aids is not going away from male on male sexual interations.   The HPB virus is not going away from two women having oral interaction... ask Michael Douglas about his cancer.   The supreme court cannot protect gays from these of many consequences.    The greater the sin, the greater the consequence.   Neither the Supreme Court nor the president can protect them.


----------



## mensa

Ms. Shimmie, let the church say Amen.


----------



## momi

Belle Du Jour said:


> http://www.nomblog.com/35831



Wow - I had no idea.


----------



## Shimmie

mensa said:


> Ms. Shimmie, let the church said Amen.



Psalm 1 ... 

Blessed is the one
    who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
    or sit in the company of mockers,

but whose delight is in the law of the Lord,
    and who meditates on his law day and night.

That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,
    which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither—
    whatever they do prospers.

Not so the wicked!
    They are like chaff
    that the wind blows away.

Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
    nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.

For the Lord watches over the way of the righteous,
    but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Nice & Wavy said:


> *There is no need for us to get worked up over today's Supreme Court  decision. Changing definitions does not change Truth. *Calling a dung  pile a donut won't make it taste sweet. Don't argue over it or focus on  it. Calm your hearts, and pray for the deceived millions who will die  without hope and be doomed, unless we love them into the  Kingdom of our  Lord Christ. "Straight people don't go to Heaven. Only REDEEMED  people..." Sy Rogers



This gave me a lot of peace.  Thanks


----------



## Shimmie

nathansgirl1908 said:


> America has gotten on my nerves this week between this, the voting rights act ruling, and the Paula Deen debacle.  I'm surprised at the court ruling about the gay issues because reports from oral arguments made it seem like the justices were leaning the other way.
> 
> I'm just resigned to keep believing the way I have been.
> 
> *I have more and more Christian friends who are now saying that even though gay marriage is a sin, they deserve equality*.
> 
> I don't agree with that thought process.



   How you doing nathansgirl1908?  

In response to the bolded in your post:   

God is separating the _'chaff' from the wheat_.   Those who choose Him and those who choose compromising of His Word.


----------



## nathansgirl1908

Shimmie said:


> How you doing nathansgirl1908?
> 
> In response to the bolded in your post:
> 
> God is separating the _'chaff' from the wheat_.   Those who choose Him and those who choose compromising of His Word.



I'm doing well.  I hope you are too.


----------



## ktykaty

To my sister in Christ in the US, 

I want to uplift you in this moment.
my word for you is *"be encouraged, our Savior is victorious"*.
I've been where you are now, one month ago and I know that it feels like defeat but, be encouraged, our Lord is victorious.

I want to share something with you. I started praying against the legalisation of gay marriage circa february 2012. in november, the Lord answered my prayer with one word *"VICTORY"*. when I received this word I was like  because I knew full well that His idea of victory is the *CROSS*. right now, we are going through the passion and death of Christ, but it's OK because our Savior is victorious. This is only a stage. the Lord God Almighty has declared victory other those laws, and when He spoke, it is.

once again, be encouraged, our Lord is victorious and nothing the LGBT lobby can do will ever change that fact.

*Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed.” REV 5:5*


----------



## Nice & Wavy

mensa said:


> My husband said that after watching 1 gay man propose to another and the man saying yes, that we now live in Sodom and Gomorrah.  Hubby also said that now the door will be open for beastiality, polygamy and every other sexual perversion.


Your husband is right.  And although all these perversions have been hidden, they will now be in the open and demand that it become legal.



Belle Du Jour said:


> This gave me a lot of peace.  Thanks


It did for me as well.  You are more than welcome


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> This gave me a lot of peace.  Thanks



Hey Lady Belle... 







This decision by the supreme court was already set in motion long before this day.   it started with the assignment of those who were 'primed' to vote against DOMA and Proposition 8.   They were pre-selected and seated /_ in the 'house'.     

None of us are surprised that this was coming.  Especially when President Obama announced last May 12 that he had 'evolved' and was now supportive of gay marriage.   That was the dead give-away.   The 'road map' for others to follow.  The bread crumbs were on the trail.   the NAACP, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, a host of others, seeking / eating the trail crumbs.

Lady Belle, if for no other time than now... Trust God!  Trust Him.   Put your ear to the ground and listen and you will hear the move of God approaching.  God is not going to be outdone by any sinner let alone the devil period.   

God is asking those of us who love Him and fear Him and honour Him, to just Trust Him.   He hasn't turned away from our heart's cry nor our prayers.   Whatever we ask of Him to do in this situation, He is perched and ready to do... for us and for His Kingdom.    

It is not God's will for gay marriage, how dare satan attempt to once again be equal and above God.   It's one of satan's biggest insults upon God's creation and the devil thinks he has won.    We all know that he hasn't and that he never will.

My biggest concern in all of this is the 'Children'.   They are the ones who will suffer because they are being taught that this the way of life, however it is not.    Children live what they learn and there is a generation of children who are in danger of being mislead down this tragic path and their souls will perish all because of an agenda and a legislation too evil to honour God's truth.


----------



## Shimmie

ktykaty said:


> To my sister in Christ in the US,
> 
> I want to uplift you in this moment.
> my word for you is *"be encouraged, our Savior is victorious"*.
> I've been where you are now, one month ago and I know that it feels like defeat but, be encouraged, our Lord is victorious.
> 
> I want to share something with you. I started praying against the legalisation of gay marriage circa february 2012. in november, the Lord answered my prayer with one word *"VICTORY"*. when I received this word I was like  because I knew full well that His idea of victory is the *CROSS*. right now, we are going through the passion and death of Christ, but it's OK because our Savior is victorious. This is only a stage. the Lord God Almighty has declared victory other those laws, and when He spoke, it is.
> 
> once again, be encouraged, our Lord is victorious and nothing the LGBT lobby can do will ever change that fact.
> 
> *Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed.” REV 5:5*



ktykaty... 

Merci beaucoup ma sœur. 

Je t'aime en Jésus-Christ notre Seigneur., 

Toujours victorieux, toujours dans le cœur


Again...

"Je'taime'


----------



## Shimmie

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I'm doing well.  I hope you are too.



I'm quite calm, considering...   

(give me a couple of days to 'process' the event')   

Love to you and 'Dad'.


----------



## Shimmie

Blackpearl1993 said:


> I am deeply saddened. Deeply, deeply saddened. Words just cannot express how I feel right now. I am not shocked, just saddened. I am saddened for my children, for those of us who know THE TRUTH (the one and only truth), and for homosexuals as well.
> 
> While Mrs. Haseeb is right and there are homosexuals who want out of that choice of lifestyle, I am especially saddened for those who have been deceived into believing that this type of lifestyle if perfectly normal and that people are born into the lifestyle rather than choosing the lifestyle.
> 
> I know that this court ruling will not change God's will and that these types of rulings are to be expected in a fallen world. It doesn't change, however, the way that this breaks my heart.



Blackpearl1993...


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Your husband is right.  And although all these perversions have been hidden, they will now be in the open and demand that it become legal.
> 
> It did for me as well.  You are more than welcome



Nice & Wavy...

Sis...

I gotta send you hugs too...


----------



## Shimmie

For EVERYONE in this thread ... 

Please be encouraged.


----------



## Laela

I really was encouraged by this post.... was reading another thread about "gay rights" and this came to me...
There really is no such a thing as "gay rights". No provision was made for it, since God created man and woman, in His image. So, why argue? [not to be confused with standing up for God's Truth]

God is a God of POSITION. He's always been...when He looked for Adam in the Garden, He asked 'Adam where are you?'. When He told Abram to leave his people, to come out from among them, He was positioning Abram. 
We have to also be in a position to hear from God.... He positioned Lot, too, (through Abram) to leave Sodom, and they had to move when God said move. He delayed judgment on Lot and his family so they could leave and instructed them to not look back. Position, whether to move or be still, God is a God of position. Not to sound like I'm rambling but I had to get this thought out, because I read your posts and someone else's and the dots are connected.. I hope others see that, too. 

Jesus has already petitioned for us, as Abram did for Lot. We won. 





Nice & Wavy said:


> There is no need for us to get worked up over today's Supreme Court  decision. Changing definitions does not change Truth. Calling a dung  pile a donut won't make it taste sweet. Don't argue over it or focus on  it. Calm your hearts, and pray for the deceived millions who will die  without hope and be doomed, unless we love them into the  Kingdom of our  Lord Christ. "Straight people don't go to Heaven. Only REDEEMED  people..." Sy Rogers


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Shimmie, I told my mom the same thing: God is separating the sheep from the goats. I have been appalled at the number of Christians behind this mess. 

ktykaty yes, thank you for the reminder that the way out is through.  Jesus went through the deepest suffering on the cross but triumphed. We should never fear the cross.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Shimmie, I told my mom the same thing: God is separating the sheep from the goats. I have been appalled at the number of Christians behind this mess.
> 
> ktykaty yes, thank you for the reminder that the way out is through.  Jesus went through the deepest suffering on the cross but triumphed. We should never fear the cross.



Lady Belle ...

Please give your Mom a big hug from me.  She has truly raised a beautiful daughter with the heart of our Lord Jesus Christ.     You represent your family and the Body of Christ beyond 'well.'


----------



## Belle Du Jour

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/26/politics/scotus-same-sex-marriage-irpt/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

Of course, the gay people in the 38 states where SSM is not legal are now wondering "what about their "rights?"  Now, the states will have to fight to prevent this from happening in their states.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/26/politics/scotus-same-sex-marriage-irpt/index.html?hpt=hp_c3
> 
> Of course, the gay people in the 38 states where SSM is not legal are now wondering "what about their "rights?"  Now, the states will have to fight to prevent this from happening in their states.



They can 'wonder' while we pray, for our prayers are far greater than their wondering and whatever they set out to do.   From this moment on (truthfully from the moment the 's. court' announced their decision) everything they set their hand to shall fail in Jesus' Name.   They shall not prosper in the further works of evil.  They shall not prosper in defiling the pure meaning of Marriage. It's not theirs to desecrate.   

_"The Spirit of the Lord is upon 'us', because He has anointed 'us' to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent us to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,"_--- Luke 4:18


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> @Nice & Wavy...
> 
> Sis...
> 
> I gotta send you hugs too...


Thanks, sis..love you too! 



Laela said:


> I really was encouraged by this post.... was reading another thread about "gay rights" and this came to me...
> There really is no such a thing as "gay rights". No provision was made for it, since God created man and woman, in His image. So, why argue? [not to be confused with standing up for God's Truth]
> 
> God is a God of POSITION. He's always been...when He looked for Adam in the Garden, He asked 'Adam where are you?'. When He told Abram to leave his people, to come out from among them, He was positioning Abram.
> We have to also be in a position to hear from God.... He positioned Lot, too, (through Abram) to leave Sodom, and they had to move when God said move. He delayed judgment on Lot and his family so they could leave and instructed them to not look back. Position, whether to move or be still, God is a God of position. Not to sound like I'm rambling but I had to get this thought out, because I read your posts and someone else's and the dots are connected.. I hope others see that, too.
> 
> Jesus has already petitioned for us, as Abram did for Lot. We won.


I LOVE this post...so on point!  Thank you, Laela...love you sis!


----------



## Nice & Wavy

The case of the “unpardonable sin/unforgivable sin” or “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32.  The term “blasphemy” may be generally *defined as “defiant irreverence.”  We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully  degrading things relating to Him. It is also attributing some evil to  God*, *this has been done in the OT forum....there are some of them that need Jesus, for real* or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case  of blasphemy, however, is a specific one called “the blasphemy against  the Holy Spirit” in Matthew 12:31.  In this passage, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that  Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed  instead that He was possessed by the demon Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24). In Mark 3:30, Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”

This blasphemy then has to do with accusing Jesus Christ (in person, on  earth) of being demon-possessed. There are other ways to blaspheme the  Holy Spirit (such as lying to Him, as in the case of Ananias and  Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10),  but the accusation against Jesus was the blasphemy that was  unpardonable. This specific unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit  cannot be duplicated today.

The other unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. John 3:16  tells us, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only  Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal  life.” The only condition in which someone would have no forgiveness is  if he/she is not among the “whoever” that believes in Him. Jesus said,  “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father  except through me” (John 14:6).  To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an  eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously,  unpardonable.

Many people fear they have committed some sin that God cannot or will  not forgive, and they feel there is no hope for them, no matter what  they do. Satan would like nothing better than to keep us laboring under  this misconception. The truth is that if a person has this fear, he/she  needs only to come before God, confess that sin, repent of it, and  accept God’s promise of forgiveness. “If we confess our sins, he is  faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all  unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).  This verse assures us that God is ready to forgive any sin—no matter  how heinous—*if we come to Him in repentance*. If you are suffering under a  load of guilt today, God is waiting with His arms open in love and  compassion for you to come to Him. He will never disappoint or fail to  pardon those who do.

​


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> The case of the “unpardonable sin/unforgivable sin” or “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32.  The term “blasphemy” may be generally *defined as “defiant irreverence.”  We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully  degrading things relating to Him. It is also attributing some evil to  God*, *this has been done in the OT forum....there are some of them that need Jesus, for real* or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case  of blasphemy, however, is a specific one called “the blasphemy against  the Holy Spirit” in Matthew 12:31.  In this passage, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that  Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed  instead that He was possessed by the demon Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24). In Mark 3:30, Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”
> 
> This blasphemy then has to do with accusing Jesus Christ (in person, on  earth) of being demon-possessed. There are other ways to blaspheme the  Holy Spirit (such as lying to Him, as in the case of Ananias and  Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10),  but the accusation against Jesus was the blasphemy that was  unpardonable. This specific unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit  cannot be duplicated today.
> 
> The other unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. John 3:16  tells us, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only  Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal  life.” The only condition in which someone would have no forgiveness is  if he/she is not among the “whoever” that believes in Him. Jesus said,  “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father  except through me” (John 14:6).  To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an  eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously,  unpardonable.
> 
> Many people fear they have committed some sin that God cannot or will  not forgive, and they feel there is no hope for them, no matter what  they do. Satan would like nothing better than to keep us laboring under  this misconception. The truth is that if a person has this fear, he/she  needs only to come before God, confess that sin, repent of it, and  accept God’s promise of forgiveness. “If we confess our sins, he is  faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all  unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).  This verse assures us that God is ready to forgive any sin—no matter  how heinous—*if we come to Him in repentance*. If you are suffering under a  load of guilt today, God is waiting with His arms open in love and  compassion for you to come to Him. He will never disappoint or fail to  pardon those who do.
> 
> ​



Thanks sis... this is a heart opening message.


----------



## Shimmie

*Huge Sigh*

I pulled this from the OT post.  You will not believe it.   Talk about an unpardonable sin.  Please pray before you read this.  It is totally unbelievable:  

*1972 Gay Rights Platform*

*DEMANDS:*

*Federal:*

1. Amend all federal Civil Rights Acts, other legislation and government controls to prohibit discrimination in employment, housing, public accommodations and public services.

2. Issuance by the President of an executive order prohibiting the military from excluding for reasons of their sexual orientation, persons who of their own volition desire entrance into the Armed Services; and from issuing less-than-fully-honorable discharges for homosexuality; and the upgrading to fully honorable all such discharges previously issued, with retroactive benefits.

3. Issuance by the President of an executive order prohibiting discrimination in the federal civil service because of sexual orientation, in hiring and promoting; and prohibiting discrimination against homosexuals in security clearances.

4. Elimination of tax inequities victimizing single persons and same-sex couples.

5. Elimination of bars to the entry, immigration and naturalization of homosexual aliens.

*6. Federal encouragement and support for sex education courses, prepared and taught by Gay women and men, presenting homosexuality as a valid, healthy preference and lifestyle as a viable alternative to heterosexuality.*

*7. Appropriate executive orders, regulations and legislation banning the compiling, maintenance and dissemination of information on an individual's sexual preferences, behavior, and social and political activities for dossiers and data banks.*

*8. Federal funding of aid programs of Gay men's and women's organizations designed to alleviate the problems encountered by Gay women and men which are engendered by an oppressive sexist society.*

*9. Immediate release of all Gay women and men now incarcerated in detention centers, prisons and mental institutions because of sexual offense charges relating to victimless crimes or sexual orientation; and that adequate compensation be made for the physical and mental duress encountered; and that all existing records relating to the incarceration be immediately expunged.*

*State:*

1. All federal legislation and programs enumerated in Demands 1, 6, 7, 8 and 9 above should be implemented at the State level where applicable.

*2. Repeal of all state laws prohibiting private sexual acts involving consenting persons; equalization for homosexuals and heterosexuals for the enforcement of all laws.*

3. Repeal all state laws prohibiting solicitation for private voluntary sexual liaisons; and laws prohibiting prostitution, both male and female.

4. Enactment of legislation prohibiting insurance companies and other state-regulated enterprises from discriminating because of sexual orientation, in insurance and in bonding or any other prerequisite to employment or control of one's personal demesne.

5. Enactment of legislation so that child custody, adoption, visitation rights, foster parenting, and the like shall not be denied because of sexual orientation or marital status.

*6. Repeal of all laws prohibiting transvestism and cross-dressing.*

*7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.*

8*. Repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit; and the extension of legal benefits to all persons who cohabitate regardless of sex or numbers.* 

"The greatest single victory of the gay movement over the past decade has been to shift the debate from behavior to identity, thus forcing opponents into a position where they can be seen as attacking the civil rights of homosexual citizens." 

------------------------

I *'veto'* this mess in Jesus' Name.    Oh yes, I do.  The Body of Christ does not have to tolerate this demonic agenda.    Ummm NO!

This shall not stand, neither shall it come to fruition, in the name of Jesus!


----------



## Belle Du Jour

They will continue to demand more until the fabric of society is completely undone. I bet the foolish people supporting the LGBT agenda have no clue.  Satan is friggin clever...he just need a little diversion to really start some mess while no one is paying attention.


----------



## momi

Nice & Wavy said:


> The case of the “unpardonable sin/unforgivable sin” or “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32.  The term “blasphemy” may be generally *defined as “defiant irreverence.”  We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully  degrading things relating to Him. It is also attributing some evil to  God*, *this has been done in the OT forum....there are some of them that need Jesus, for real* or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case  of blasphemy, however, is a specific one called “the blasphemy against  the Holy Spirit” in Matthew 12:31.  In this passage, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that  Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed  instead that He was possessed by the demon Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24). In Mark 3:30, Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”
> 
> This blasphemy then has to do with accusing Jesus Christ (in person, on  earth) of being demon-possessed. There are other ways to blaspheme the  Holy Spirit (such as lying to Him, as in the case of Ananias and  Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10),  but the accusation against Jesus was the blasphemy that was  unpardonable. This specific unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit  cannot be duplicated today.
> 
> The other unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. John 3:16  tells us, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only  Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal  life.” The only condition in which someone would have no forgiveness is  if he/she is not among the “whoever” that believes in Him. Jesus said,  “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father  except through me” (John 14:6).  To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an  eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously,  unpardonable.
> 
> *Many people fear they have committed some sin that God cannot or will  not forgive, and they feel there is no hope for them, no matter what  they do. Satan would like nothing better than to keep us laboring under  this misconception. The truth is that if a person has this fear, he/she  needs only to come before God, confess that sin, repent of it, and  accept God’s promise of forgiveness. “If we confess our sins, he is  faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all  unrighteousness”* (1 John 1:9).  This verse assures us that God is ready to forgive any sin—no matter  how heinous—*if we come to Him in repentance*. If you are suffering under a  load of guilt today, God is waiting with His arms open in love and  compassion for you to come to Him. He will never disappoint or fail to  pardon those who do.
> 
> ​



Good teaching Wavy!


----------



## mensa

I heard a preacher say that when anyone begins to preach against this sin, charges can be brought against them. Many churches will lose their 5013C status and will have to close their doors because of fines and penalties.

Please say this isn't true.


----------



## Shimmie

mensa said:


> I heard a preacher say that when anyone begins to preach against this sin, charges can be brought against them. Many churches will lose their 5013C status and will have to close their doors because of fines and penalties.
> 
> Please say this isn't true.



_Heaven and Earth may pass away, but My Word will Stand Forever..._

Love, 
God


----------



## mensa

Good morning Ms. Shimmie, that is the truth. 

So it is not against the law to condemn this? If it is let the records show that I ccondemn it. Can we start a petition voicing our opposition


----------



## momi

mensa said:


> I heard a preacher say that when anyone begins to preach against this sin, charges can be brought against them. Many churches will lose their 5013C status and will have to close their doors because of fines and penalties.
> 
> Please say this isn't true.



If we look to other countries as an example I believe there is no reason to think it won't happen here as well. 

In France a mayor is facing up to 5 years or a fine in prison because he has refused to marry a same sex couple... and I've heard of several cases in Sweden.  Canada is also well on its way as there are already hefty fines and court fees associated with "hate speech". 

I don't like using Wikipedia as a source but this is a good place to start if you'd like to research further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech


----------



## mensa

Looks like if we speak out against sin, we will be punished. So be it.


----------



## Shimmie

momi said:


> If we look to other countries as an example I believe there is no reason to think it won't happen here as well.
> 
> In France a mayor is facing up to 5 years or a fine in prison because he has refused to marry a same sex couple... and I've heard of several cases in Sweden.  Canada is also well on its way as there are already hefty fines and court fees associated with "hate speech".
> 
> I don't like using Wikipedia as a source but this is a good place to start if you'd like to research further.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech





mensa said:


> Looks like if we speak out against sin, we will be punished. So be it.



Please don't allow this to put fear in your heart...

If I could only tell you what I know...

Start here in Isaiah 7:1-7

When Ahaz son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, was king of Judah, King Rezin of Aram and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel marched up to fight against Jerusalem, but they could not overpower it.

2 Now the house of David was told, “Aram has allied itself with[a] Ephraim”; so the hearts of Ahaz and his people were shaken, as the trees of the forest are shaken by the wind.

3 Then the Lord said to Isaiah, “Go out, you and your son Shear-Jashub,* to meet Ahaz at the end of the aqueduct of the Upper Pool, on the road to the Launderer’s Field. 4 Say to him, ‘Be careful, keep calm and don’t be afraid. Do not lose heart because of these two smoldering stubs of firewood—because of the fierce anger of Rezin and Aram and of the son of Remaliah. 5 Aram, Ephraim and Remaliah’s son have plotted your ruin, saying, 6 “Let us invade Judah; let us tear it apart and divide it among ourselves, and make the son of Tabeel king over it.” 7 Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“‘It will not take place,
    it will not happen,
8 for the head of Aram is Damascus,
    and the head of Damascus is only Rezin.
Within sixty-five years
    Ephraim will be too shattered to be a people.
9 The head of Ephraim is Samaria,
    and the head of Samaria is only Remaliah’s son.
If you do not stand firm in your faith,
    you will not stand at all.’”
10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, 11 “Ask the Lord your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights.”

12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask; I will not put the Lord to the test.”

------------

Do we trust God or not?*


----------



## Belle Du Jour

mensa said:


> I heard a preacher say that when anyone begins to preach against this sin, charges can be brought against them. Many churches will lose their 5013C status and will have to close their doors because of fines and penalties.
> 
> Please say this isn't true.



mensa, yes, I believe that is where we are headed.  They will not stop until the state forces churches to perform these "marriages."  Obama is a charlatan and I don't believe him when he says he won't force any churches to perform these marriages.  I said this before and I'll say it again: since some "Christian" churches are performing gay marriage ceremonies, it is only a matter of time before some gay couple decides they should have the "right" to marry in the church of their choice, even if that church does not support gay marriages.  After all, SCOTUS says it's legal and deserves all the rights of a heterosexual marriage so if SSM is legal in that state, I can see them trying to enforce it.  I pray to God that doesn't happen, but look at what's happening with the HHS mandate/contraception/abortion.  I have not studied enough on this, but I do believe that Christians are going to go through another period of martyrdom--literally and/or figuratively.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> mensa, yes, I believe that is where we are headed.  They will not stop until the state forces churches to perform these "marriages."  Obama is a charlatan and I don't believe him when he says he won't force any churches to perform these marriages.  I said this before and I'll say it again: since some "Christian" churches are performing gay marriage ceremonies, it is only a matter of time before some gay couple decides they should have the "right" to marry in the church of their choice, even if that church does not support gay marriages.  After all, SCOTUS says it's legal and deserves all the rights of a heterosexual marriage so if SSM is legal in that state, I can see them trying to enforce it.  I pray to God that doesn't happen, but look at what's happening with the HHS mandate/contraception/abortion.  I have not studied enough on this, but I do believe that Christians are going to go through another period of martyrdom--literally and/or figuratively.



Lady Belle...  God, at our request, will strike them down before allowing them to 'force' their evil wills' upon us.  

The Lord's Prayer:

"Lead us not into temptation... deliver us from evil.  

------

I spoke 'death' to a mouse once.   Instantly, it died.  

No one messes with our faith.


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67

Nice & Wavy said:


> You are not alone...


 


momi said:


> I admit that I am not doing much of the above. Lord help me.


 

If you are praying and I know that you are then you are doing more than you know, though some things must happen our prayers our very effectual, it's more than the 'eyes' can see don't loose heart, remember this is also a spiritual fight.


----------



## Highly Favored8

mensa said:


> Good morning Ms. Shimmie, that is the truth.
> 
> So it is not against the law to condemn this? If it is let the records show that I ccondemn it. Can we start a petition voicing our opposition



mensa yes my pastor said the same thing. Yes there is legislation in the works for pastor's who preach homosexuality is a sin .. Which it is.. Yes Pastor who speak up and refuse will be jailed.  

Also NYC is celebrating "pride week" Le sigh "pride before the fall" God is not playing and His word will not be changed!


----------



## momi

Shimmie said:


> *Please don't allow this to put fear in your heart...
> *
> If I could only tell you what I know...
> 
> Start here in Isaiah 7:1-7
> 
> When Ahaz son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, was king of Judah, King Rezin of Aram and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel marched up to fight against Jerusalem, but they could not overpower it.
> 
> 2 Now the house of David was told, “Aram has allied itself with[a] Ephraim”; so the hearts of Ahaz and his people were shaken, as the trees of the forest are shaken by the wind.
> 
> 3 Then the Lord said to Isaiah, “Go out, you and your son Shear-Jashub,* to meet Ahaz at the end of the aqueduct of the Upper Pool, on the road to the Launderer’s Field. 4 Say to him, ‘Be careful, keep calm and don’t be afraid. Do not lose heart because of these two smoldering stubs of firewood—because of the fierce anger of Rezin and Aram and of the son of Remaliah. 5 Aram, Ephraim and Remaliah’s son have plotted your ruin, saying, 6 “Let us invade Judah; let us tear it apart and divide it among ourselves, and make the son of Tabeel king over it.” 7 Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
> 
> “‘It will not take place,
> it will not happen,
> 8 for the head of Aram is Damascus,
> and the head of Damascus is only Rezin.
> Within sixty-five years
> Ephraim will be too shattered to be a people.
> 9 The head of Ephraim is Samaria,
> and the head of Samaria is only Remaliah’s son.
> If you do not stand firm in your faith,
> you will not stand at all.’”
> 10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, 11 “Ask the Lord your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights.”
> 
> 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask; I will not put the Lord to the test.”
> 
> ------------
> 
> Do we trust God or not?*


*

I wouldn't say that I'm fearful - but Christians have to know what could be imminent.  I'm waiting for Christ to snatch us up any day now  

The wise will be able to discern the times so I am praying and listening for instructions daily.

Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment. Ecc 8:5   

Occupying until He comes. *


----------



## JaneBond007

@Belle du Jour







Remembering *The Original Rainbow* and G-d's promise not to destroy the earth by a flood ever again.  ~~Oh Blood and Water, which gushed forth from the heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us, I trust in Thee~~


----------



## Nice & Wavy

mensa said:


> Looks like if we speak out against sin, we will be punished. So be it.


So be it is right!

I don't give a hoot!!!!!

If the Apostles can be arrested and punished for the gospel, then we can too!  Greater is He who lives within us than he who is in the world.  God is bigger than anything the devil can do to us...we shall not fear, what can man do to us?


----------



## Shimmie

Highly Favored8 said:


> mensa yes my pastor said the same thing. Yes there is legislation in the works for pastor's who preach homosexuality is a sin .. Which it is.. Yes Pastor who speak up and refuse will be jailed.
> 
> Also NYC is celebrating "pride week" Le sigh "pride before the fall" God is not playing and His word will not be changed!



Yes, they will devise a plan against 'us', but they will not prevail; they will not succeed.  

The curse causeless will not come, it will / it MUST return from whence it came...

What did Elisha pray?  

I want someone to look it up and come back and post it.  And as you post it,  BELIEVE IT!

We are NOT going to be subdued by the enemy.   God is not going to allow His VESSELS, HIS carriers of HIS Word to be subjected to the opposition.  

God contends with those who contend with us.  

Sisters PLEASE HEAR WHAT I AM TRYING TO TELL YOU!   Please.

And I'm not yelling at you; neither am I speaking harshly to you.  Just PLEASE Hear what I am trying to get through to you.   Please!  

We are going to see people of the opposition literally fall before us, those who try to bring harm to our Ministries, let alone our children and loved ones, even our homes.   

Stop confessing the doom upon your Ministries.   Reverse your words, towards this agenda and what God move on your behalf.   Stop inviting the enemy into your Ministry.  

Okay... so others have been sued, jailed, countered into a corner.   But can you see what it is?     God has promised: 

_ "Though a thousand may fall by your side, ten thousand by your right hand, it will not come nigh thee. "_

Please, I know what I am talking about.   How many times has God asked in His Word, 'What will you have me do?"  

No more doom and gloom or dread.   Speak into God's heart instead.   What would you have God do?   Tell Him and give Him the Glory for having His Glory.    In Jesus' Name, Amen.

-------

Okay, Group Hugs.   I'm not scolding, you.  Not anyone here.   I promise.  I'm simply kicking the devil's lies from out of your midst.    

I love you, still...   Yes I do..


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> Yes, they will devise a plan against 'us', but they will not prevail; they will not succeed.
> 
> The curse causeless will not come, it will / it MUST return from whence it came...
> 
> What did Elisha pray?
> 
> I want someone to look it up and come back and post it.  And as you post it,  BELIEVE IT!
> 
> We are NOT going to be subdued by the enemy.   God is not going to allow His VESSELS, HIS carriers of HIS Word to be subjected to the opposition.
> 
> God contends with those who contend with us.
> 
> Sisters PLEASE HEAR WHAT I AM TRYING TO TELL YOU!   Please.
> 
> And I'm not yelling at you; neither am I speaking harshly to you.  Just PLEASE Hear what I am trying to get through to you.   Please!
> 
> We are going to see people of the opposition literally fall before us, those who try to bring harm to our Ministries, let alone our children and loved ones, even our homes.
> 
> Stop confessing the doom upon your Ministries.   Reverse your words, towards this agenda and what God move on your behalf.   Stop inviting the enemy into your Ministry.
> 
> Okay... so others have been sued, jailed, countered into a corner.   But can you see what it is?     God has promised:
> 
> _ "Though a thousand may fall by your side, ten thousand by your right hand, it will not come nigh thee. "_
> 
> Please, I know what I am talking about.   How many times has God asked in His Word, 'What will you have me do?"
> 
> No more doom and gloom or dread.   Speak into God's heart instead.   What would you have God do?   Tell Him and give Him the Glory for having His Glory.    In Jesus' Name, Amen.
> 
> -------
> 
> Okay, Group Hugs.   I'm not scolding, you.  Not anyone here.   I promise.  I'm simply kicking the devil's lies from out of your midst.
> 
> I love you, still...   Yes I do..


I am in agreement with your entire post!

Amein~~


----------



## Highly Favored8

Shimmie said:


> Yes, they will devise a plan against 'us', but they will not prevail; they will not succeed.
> 
> The curse causeless will not come, it will / it MUST return from whence it came...
> 
> What did Elisha pray?
> 
> I want someone to look it up and come back and post it.  And as you post it,  BELIEVE IT!
> 
> We are NOT going to be subdued by the enemy.   God is not going to allow His VESSELS, HIS carriers of HIS Word to be subjected to the opposition.
> 
> God contends with those who contend with us.
> 
> Sisters PLEASE HEAR WHAT I AM TRYING TO TELL YOU!   Please.
> 
> And I'm not yelling at you; neither am I speaking harshly to you.  Just PLEASE Hear what I am trying to get through to you.   Please!
> 
> We are going to see people of the opposition literally fall before us, those who try to bring harm to our Ministries, let alone our children and loved ones, even our homes.
> 
> Stop confessing the doom upon your Ministries.   Reverse your words, towards this agenda and what God move on your behalf.   Stop inviting the enemy into your Ministry.
> 
> Okay... so others have been sued, jailed, countered into a corner.   But can you see what it is?     God has promised:
> 
> "Though a thousand may fall by your side, ten thousand by your right hand, it will not come nigh thee. "
> 
> Please, I know what I am talking about.   How many times has God asked in His Word, 'What will you have me do?"
> 
> No more doom and gloom or dread.   Speak into God's heart instead.   What would you have God do?   Tell Him and give Him the Glory for having His Glory.    In Jesus' Name, Amen.
> 
> -------
> 
> Okay, Group Hugs.   I'm not scolding, you.  Not anyone here.   I promise.  I'm simply kicking the devil's lies from out of your midst.
> 
> I love you, still...   Yes I do..



Amen! Love you as well!


----------



## mensa

love you to, Ms. Shimmie.


----------



## sweetvi

Shimmie said:


> Lady Belle... God, at our request, will strike them down before allowing them to 'force' their evil wills' upon us.
> 
> The Lord's Prayer:
> 
> "Lead us not into temptation... deliver us from evil.
> 
> ------
> 
> *I spoke 'death' to a mouse once. Instantly, it died. *
> 
> *No one messes with our faith.*


* *


----------



## momi

sweetvi said:


>



I just caught that. Poor mouse - lol


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Three judges on 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rule same-sex marriages can resume effective immediately in California. 

Hide yo kids cause pedophiles will want what they want next...


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Nice & Wavy said:


> Three judges on 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rule same-sex marriages can resume effective immediately in California.
> 
> Hide yo kids cause pedophiles will want what they want next...



This would be funny if it wasn't true... And very sick.


----------



## momi

MrsHaseeb said:


> This would be funny if it wasn't true... And very sick.



IKR.  

10 char.


----------



## Shimmie

Highly Favored8 said:


> Amen! Love you as well!





mensa said:


> love you to, Ms. Shimmie.





sweetvi said:


> [/B]





momi said:


> I just caught that. Poor mouse - lol



I'm just trying to  keep you all encouraged.   Please bear with me.  

sweetvi and momi....  Ya'll laughing bout' dat' mouse but I was serious....  

I'm glad it make you laugh.   Really I am.   

But check this out, when I found out that the mouse was dead, I sat straight up and said, 'OH!'...     and I put my hand over my mouth, quick, fast and in a hurry.   Why so?    I realized that my Words carried too much power.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Three judges on 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rule same-sex marriages can resume effective immediately in California.
> 
> Hide yo kids cause pedophiles will want what they want next...



They can have the foolish five of the not supreme court and have a feast upon them.


----------



## sweetvi

Shimmie said:


> I'm just trying to keep you all encouraged. Please bear with me.
> 
> @sweetvi and @momi.... Ya'll laughing bout' dat' mouse but I was serious....
> 
> I'm glad it make you laugh. Really I am.
> 
> But check this out, when I found out that the mouse was dead, I sat straight up and said, 'OH!'...  and I put my hand over my mouth, quick, fast and in a hurry. Why so? I realized that *my Words carried too much power*.


 

Shimmie Well in that case....pray for my ehem hubby to appear


----------



## Shimmie

sweetvi said:


> Shimmie Well in that case....pray for my ehem hubby to appear



That's easy...   

Precious Holy Spirit, with all honour and respect, I bow my heart before you on behalf of my sister in Christ Jesus, sweetvi 

Holy Spirit, please show her husband where and how to find her.  I believe that he truly does exist and even more, he's sitting in his home right now and asking, who is his wife to be?   He's searching and he is ready.    Precious Holy Spirit, you know the way to lead and to guide the both of them into all truth in you and in all truth for them to find and to know beyond any doubt that they belong to one another, brought together by you.

Holy Spirit, remove the vines, the vines which have been entangled along his path and among his dreams and goals.   Let him know that his life is not complete without his beautiful Bride to be, Sweetvi.    You know the way wherein he should walk and how he should talk, meaning unto you in loving earnest prayer.   Seal them with you love and anointed appointment to have and to hold from this moment forward, each other with in their hearts.   By your Spirit, their prayers will lead them together and not a moment will be lost in the journey.

Holy Spirit remove and block all counterfeits, allowing only the reserved place in their hearts for one another sealed by you.   Remove the 'gutters', the cracks along the path that may cause them to stumble.  Let their eyes be fixed, fully established focus upon following you and in turn, they will find one another, face to face, heart to heart, spirit to spirit.    

Sweetvi's husband has a void which he is searching for the missing love to make his body whole.   She carries the 'rib' which was 'removed' from his body and there is only one perfect fit....Sweetvi's.    The days and the hours are secured by you, Holy Spirit.   Bring them together, forever, happy and one with you and with one another.     

For this we thank you and honour you, in Jesus' Name, Amen.


----------



## sweetvi

Love You  and I receive it

Thank You lol


----------



## Laela

Shimmie said:


> ------
> 
> I spoke 'death' to a mouse once.   Instantly, it died.
> 
> No one messes with our faith.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Well dang, I guess the Queen is drinking the water too:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/17/world/europe/uk-same-sex-marriage/index.html#disqus_thread

The Queen gives her "royal assent" to SSM.  Pardon my laguage but what in the h*ll is going on? Really QEII?  Really???


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Well dang, I guess the Queen is drinking the water too:
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/17/world/europe/uk-same-sex-marriage/index.html#disqus_thread
> 
> The Queen gives her "royal assent" to SSM.  Pardon my laguage but what in the h*ll is going on? Really QEII?  Really???



It's 'hell' ---- that's exactly what's going on.  Pure 'hell', is raising itself against the Word and the Divine Will of God.  


But Lady Belle,  you know that the gates of hell cannot prevail against the 'Church'.     First of all, the Queen is taking a high risk as she's way too old to be making decisions which pull her, the gay community and the lives of young children away from Jesus.    

Her 'potential' last breath of command should not have been legalize gay marriage.  To be as close as she is to departing from this earth....   Gee whiz    

I pray that she repents and repeals her support.   I wish this woman of history no harm, only the salvation of her soul.    It's beyond obvious that she did not obtain counsel of the Lord and to follow through with it.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Shimmie said:


> It's 'hell' ---- that's exactly what's going on.  Pure 'hell', is raising itself against the Word and the Divine Will of God.
> 
> 
> But Lady Belle,  you know that the gates of hell cannot prevail against the 'Church'.     First of all, the Queen is taking a high risk as she's way too old to be making decisions which pull her, the gay community and the lives of young children away from Jesus.
> 
> Her 'potential' last breath of command should not have been legalize gay marriage.  To be as close as she is to departing from this earth....   Gee whiz
> 
> I pray that she repents and repeals her support.   I wish this woman of history no harm, only the salvation of her soul.    It's beyond obvious that she did not obtain counsel of the Lord and to follow through with it.



I was always under the impression that the Queen was a very devout lady.  Even the Anglican church took a stand against SSM so I'm _very _surprised by this.   You are right Shimmie, she is too close to the end to be making such a huge mistake.   
_
Dear Lord, help her to turn back to You and right this wrong before it is too late.  As Your word states, there is no repentance in the grave!_


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> I was always under the impression that the Queen was a very devout lady.  Even the Anglican church took a stand against SSM so I'm _very _surprised by this.   You are right Shimmie, she is too close to the end to be making such a huge mistake.
> _
> Dear Lord, help her to turn back to You and right this wrong before it is too late.  As Your word states, there is no repentance in the grave!_



I agree with your prayers, "Lady Belle'    

This spirit of homosexuality is truly thinking that it rules and reigns.   It's soon coming to it's end.    'Mark this'... this spirit is soon coming to its end.   The folks who support it, are beginning to turn away.   They want no parts of being supportive of it.   Their hearts are turning away, both saved and unsaved.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Bishop Desmond Tutu: "I'd rather go to hell than worship a homophobic God" 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-rights-struggle-apartheid-South-Africa.html


----------



## Belle Du Jour

UK Prime Minister David Cameron wants to export gay marriage around the world.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...al-pride-party-celebrate-new-legislation.html


----------



## momi

Belle Du Jour said:


> Bishop Desmond Tutu: "I'd rather go to hell than worship a homophobic God"
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380058/Id-hell-worship-homophobic-God-Desmond-Tutu-speaks-compares-gay-rights-struggle-apartheid-South-Africa.html



.::: I've been trying to figure out how to even respond to such a foolish statement. 

I can't think of anything or anyone I'd ever have that level of dedication to.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

momi
I'm convinced the world has gone stark raving mad.  Even Christians have lost their minds.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Bishop Desmond Tutu: "I'd rather go to hell than worship a homophobic God"
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-rights-struggle-apartheid-South-Africa.html





momi said:


> .::: I've been trying to figure out how to even respond to such a foolish statement.
> 
> I can't think of anything or anyone I'd ever have that level of dedication to.



Check out this comment from one of the readers of the article:

_I'd rather go to heaven than worship Desmond Tutu._

- Captain Reynault, Georgia USA, 27/7/2013 12:24


That just about sums it up... Well said.


----------



## momi

Shimmie said:


> Check out this comment from one of the readers of the article:
> 
> I'd rather go to heaven than worship Desmond Tutu.
> 
> - Captain Reynault, Georgia USA, 27/7/2013 12:24
> 
> That just about sums it up... Well said.



Indeed. 
Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord. Even you Tutu.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Media is a tool of the Devil: What the Pope Really Said about Homosexuality

http://www.teresatomeo.com/409-long...nd-the-bigger-story-ignored-by-the-media.html

They are really working overtime to make this lifestyle acceptable.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Geez, even Betty Crocker is pro-SSM erplexed

http://www.nomblog.com/36621

If it wasn't a serious matter, I would laugh. 

Dump General Mills products: http://www.dumpgeneralmills.com/  Besides the occasional Larabar and Wheaties, I don't eat their products anyway.


----------



## Galadriel

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12


----------



## Galadriel

*Proposed Law Would Force Churches to Host Gay Weddings*

Posted By toddstarnes On April 23, 2012 @ 5:58 pm In Top Stories

By Todd Starnes

Religious liberty groups are blasting a proposed ordinance that would force churches in Hutchinson, Kan. to rent their facilities for gay weddings and gay parties.

The Hutchinson City Council will consider adding sexual orientation and gender identity to the protected classes in the city’s human relations code. They are expected to vote on the changes next month.

According to the Hutchinson Human Relations Commission, churches that rent out their buildings to the general public would not be allowed to discriminate “against a gay couple who want to rent the building for a party.”

Meryl Dye, a spokesperson for the Human Relations Commission confirmed to Fox News that churches would be subjected to portions of the proposed law.

“They would not be able to discriminate against gay and lesbian or transgender individuals,” Dye said. “That type of protection parallels to what you find in race discrimination. If a church provides lodging or rents a facility they could not discriminate based on race. It’s along that kind of thinking.”

Matthew Staver, chairman of the Liberty Counsel Action, told Fox News the proposed law is “un-American.”

“It is a collision course between religious freedom and the LGBT agenda,” Staver said. “This proposed legislation will ultimately override the religious freedom that is protected under the First Amendment.”

He argued that churches cannot be forced by the government to set aside their religious convictions and their mission. And, he warned, some churches could even be forced to rent their buildings for drag parties.

“What we are ultimately going to see is churches forced to confront this law, forced to do things and allow their facilities to be used by people and for events that diametrically undercut the mission of the church,” he said.

Robert Noland, of the Kansas Family Policy Council, said the law would extend well beyond allowing access for gay weddings.

“They (churches) could not deny renting space to a gay couple if they want to have a party,” he told Fox News. “This is just another example of government creating a law imposing upon the freedom of religion and basically telling churches what they can and can’t do.”

So what could happen to churches in Hutchinson that refuse to accommodate gay parties or weddings?

“Unless the city council includes an exemption for churches, it would generate a discrimination complaint for the gay couple and it would be investigated,” Dye told Fox News. She said any churches found guilty of violating the law could be subjected to fines or other penalties.

Gary Ridge, an associate pastor of Westside Baptist Church, told Fox News their congregation would not comply with the proposed law should it pass. He said their church would refuse to host either gay weddings or parties – even if it meant a possible investigation or fines.

“We apply the Bible to our lives,” he said. “When there is a contradiction between what the city council asks and what the Bible says, we are going to follow the Bible.”

“This is an opportunity for the LGBT community to cram their belief system down on our community,” Ridge said. “It may look like a small step, but it’s not the end. Before you know it they will be able to shut down churches for preaching Romans 1:26-27. We’ll be sued for refusing to have homosexual weddings.”

Ridge said Hutchinson is a conservative city, a part of the Bible Belt – and he blamed the controversy on outsiders.

“This is part of a bigger desire to have their lifestyle condoned and accepted,” he said. “We don’t condone their activity.”

The Hutchinson measure would also have a major impact on private businesses and landlords. Restaurants, bars and retail shops would be required to provide special bathrooms for individuals who may have male body parts but identify as a female.

According to a FAQ sheet provided by the city, employers would also be forced to allow workers to dress based on their gender identity. Read the entire FAQ sheet by clicking here.

“Dress codes would not be precluded as long as an employer allows an employee to appear, groom and dress consistent with the employee’s gender identity and gender expression,” the FAQ stated.

As far as bathrooms, the city FAQ stated, “A transgender person must be allowed to use restrooms appropriate to their gender identity rather than their assigned gender at birth without being harassed or questioned.”

The city’s revised ordinance would also require transgender individuals to use the locker room and shower facilities of their choosing.

Another issue for Hutchinson’s Christian community involves workplace discrimination. The policy dictates that business owners or landlords are not allowed to discriminate based on sexual orientation or gender identity.

That’s a problem for Michael Brockman, pastor of Christ Lutheran Church.

“I know a couple who owned a bed and breakfast in Kansas City,” he said. “They decided to shut down because they could see that they were going to be forced to make decisions that might have legal effects upon them. They might be sued if they didn’t rent their facility out to a gay couple who might want to use it.”

Staver said it’s unfair that Christian business owners might have to make decisions about their future.

“You shouldn’t have to choose between participating in the marketplace, running a business or operating a church on the one hand and accepting the LGBT agenda on the other,” Staver said. “This is a battle that is coming. This is a culture divide I think we will see play out across the country.”


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Galadriel 

I KNEW this was coming!!!  Pro-SSM people argued (even on this thread) that that would _never _happen!  

I rebuke that in the name of Jesus.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Belle Du Jour said:


> Galadriel
> 
> I KNEW this was coming!!!  Pro-SSM people argued (even on this thread) that that would never happen!
> 
> I rebuke that in the name of Jesus.



I knew it was coming too... It will just keep becoming more and more degraded. Eventually we will see beastiality and pedophilia laws change in favor of sexual perversion and sexual anarchy as well. This is just the tilting point. There is more to come...


----------



## Galadriel

Belle Du Jour said:


> @Galadriel
> 
> I KNEW this was coming!!!  Pro-SSM people argued (even on this thread) that that would _never _happen!
> 
> I rebuke that in the name of Jesus.



It kind of offends me that someone's decision to engage in sodomy is being made legally equivalent with the color of my skin, but moreso it bothers me that they're trying to force _acceptance_ of this onto churches.

Will my local church be forced to rent its hall for a gay wedding or else face fines and "other penalties" (codeword for lawsuits and/or jail)?

I never believed for one second when their apologists proclaimed that it was "just about equality and rights." Where are the rights of religious people? Of their church communities? I have the right to NOT accept or approve of a behavior or lifestyle, I have the right to run my business any way I please, and I have the right to worship and believe as I please, whether I'm at home, church, or in the public square.


----------



## Galadriel

MrsHaseeb said:


> I knew it was coming too... It will just keep becoming more and more degraded. Eventually we will see beastiality and pedophilia laws change in favor of sexual perversion and sexual anarchy as well. This is just the tilting point. There is more to come...



Watch, age of consent laws are next.


----------



## Blackpearl1993

Galadriel said:


> *Proposed Law Would Force Churches to Host Gay Weddings*
> 
> Posted By toddstarnes On April 23, 2012 @ 5:58 pm In Top Stories
> 
> By Todd Starnes
> 
> Religious liberty groups are blasting a proposed ordinance that would force churches in Hutchinson, Kan. to rent their facilities for gay weddings and gay parties.
> 
> The Hutchinson City Council will consider adding sexual orientation and gender identity to the protected classes in the city’s human relations code. They are expected to vote on the changes next month.
> 
> According to the Hutchinson Human Relations Commission, churches that rent out their buildings to the general public would not be allowed to discriminate “against a gay couple who want to rent the building for a party.”
> 
> Meryl Dye, a spokesperson for the Human Relations Commission confirmed to Fox News that churches would be subjected to portions of the proposed law.
> 
> “They would not be able to discriminate against gay and lesbian or transgender individuals,” Dye said. “That type of protection parallels to what you find in race discrimination. If a church provides lodging or rents a facility they could not discriminate based on race. It’s along that kind of thinking.”
> 
> Matthew Staver, chairman of the Liberty Counsel Action, told Fox News the proposed law is “un-American.”
> 
> “It is a collision course between religious freedom and the LGBT agenda,” Staver said. “This proposed legislation will ultimately override the religious freedom that is protected under the First Amendment.”
> 
> He argued that churches cannot be forced by the government to set aside their religious convictions and their mission. And, he warned, some churches could even be forced to rent their buildings for drag parties.
> 
> “What we are ultimately going to see is churches forced to confront this law, forced to do things and allow their facilities to be used by people and for events that diametrically undercut the mission of the church,” he said.
> 
> Robert Noland, of the Kansas Family Policy Council, said the law would extend well beyond allowing access for gay weddings.
> 
> “They (churches) could not deny renting space to a gay couple if they want to have a party,” he told Fox News. “This is just another example of government creating a law imposing upon the freedom of religion and basically telling churches what they can and can’t do.”
> 
> So what could happen to churches in Hutchinson that refuse to accommodate gay parties or weddings?
> 
> “Unless the city council includes an exemption for churches, it would generate a discrimination complaint for the gay couple and it would be investigated,” Dye told Fox News. She said any churches found guilty of violating the law could be subjected to fines or other penalties.
> 
> Gary Ridge, an associate pastor of Westside Baptist Church, told Fox News their congregation would not comply with the proposed law should it pass. He said their church would refuse to host either gay weddings or parties – even if it meant a possible investigation or fines.
> 
> “We apply the Bible to our lives,” he said. “When there is a contradiction between what the city council asks and what the Bible says, we are going to follow the Bible.”
> 
> “This is an opportunity for the LGBT community to cram their belief system down on our community,” Ridge said. “It may look like a small step, but it’s not the end. Before you know it they will be able to shut down churches for preaching Romans 1:26-27. We’ll be sued for refusing to have homosexual weddings.”
> 
> Ridge said Hutchinson is a conservative city, a part of the Bible Belt – and he blamed the controversy on outsiders.
> 
> “This is part of a bigger desire to have their lifestyle condoned and accepted,” he said. “We don’t condone their activity.”
> 
> The Hutchinson measure would also have a major impact on private businesses and landlords. Restaurants, bars and retail shops would be required to provide special bathrooms for individuals who may have male body parts but identify as a female.
> 
> According to a FAQ sheet provided by the city, employers would also be forced to allow workers to dress based on their gender identity. Read the entire FAQ sheet by clicking here.
> 
> “Dress codes would not be precluded as long as an employer allows an employee to appear, groom and dress consistent with the employee’s gender identity and gender expression,” the FAQ stated.
> 
> *As far as bathrooms, the city FAQ stated, “A transgender person must be allowed to use restrooms appropriate to their gender identity rather than their assigned gender at birth without being harassed or questioned.”
> 
> The city’s revised ordinance would also require transgender individuals to use the locker room and shower facilities of their choosing.
> *
> Another issue for Hutchinson’s Christian community involves workplace discrimination. The policy dictates that business owners or landlords are not allowed to discriminate based on sexual orientation or gender identity.
> 
> That’s a problem for Michael Brockman, pastor of Christ Lutheran Church.
> 
> “I know a couple who owned a bed and breakfast in Kansas City,” he said. “They decided to shut down because they could see that they were going to be forced to make decisions that might have legal effects upon them. They might be sued if they didn’t rent their facility out to a gay couple who might want to use it.”
> 
> Staver said it’s unfair that Christian business owners might have to make decisions about their future.
> 
> “You shouldn’t have to choose between participating in the marketplace, running a business or operating a church on the one hand and accepting the LGBT agenda on the other,” Staver said. “This is a battle that is coming. This is a culture divide I think we will see play out across the country.”



This is disgusting! I rebuke this foolishness and this evil agenda in the name of Jesus. God is not going to be mocked or have those who follow His word forced to bow down to Baal! I can easily see how sodomites will "just happen" to choose a church for a wedding or how a transgender man will be in the locker room with women. In fact, there was recently a school district case where a 1st grade boy was allowed to live and dress as a girl. His parents said he is transgender and demanded that he be allowed to use the girls bathroom.  The school initially refused, but the parents sued. The boy's family won the case. I pray against this now! Heavenly Father, do whatever You must in Your infinite wisdom to stop this evil attempt at oppression and religious persecution, now!


----------



## Galadriel

Blackpearl1993 said:


> In fact, there was recently a school district case where a 1st grade boy was allowed to live and dress as a girl. His parents said he is transgender and demanded that he be allowed to use the girls bathroom.  The school initially refused, but the parents sued. The boy's family won the case. I pray against this now! Heavenly Father, do whatever You must in Your infinite wisdom to stop this evil attempt at oppression and religious persecution, now!



Blackpearl1993 yes, I just read about that. Wow, .

I'm seriously looking into traditional Catholic schools and/or homeschooling for my children.


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> *Proposed Law Would Force Churches to Host Gay Weddings*
> 
> Posted By toddstarnes On April 23, 2012 @ 5:58 pm In Top Stories
> 
> By Todd Starnes
> 
> Religious liberty groups are blasting a proposed ordinance that would force churches in Hutchinson, Kan. to rent their facilities for gay weddings and gay parties.
> 
> The Hutchinson City Council will consider adding sexual orientation and gender identity to the protected classes in the city’s human relations code. They are expected to vote on the changes next month.
> 
> According to the Hutchinson Human Relations Commission, churches that rent out their buildings to the general public would not be allowed to discriminate “against a gay couple who want to rent the building for a party.”
> 
> Meryl Dye, a spokesperson for the Human Relations Commission confirmed to Fox News that churches would be subjected to portions of the proposed law.
> 
> “They would not be able to discriminate against gay and lesbian or transgender individuals,” Dye said. “That type of protection parallels to what you find in race discrimination. If a church provides lodging or rents a facility they could not discriminate based on race. It’s along that kind of thinking.”
> 
> Matthew Staver, chairman of the Liberty Counsel Action, told Fox News the proposed law is “un-American.”
> 
> “It is a collision course between religious freedom and the LGBT agenda,” Staver said. “This proposed legislation will ultimately override the religious freedom that is protected under the First Amendment.”
> 
> He argued that churches cannot be forced by the government to set aside their religious convictions and their mission. And, he warned, some churches could even be forced to rent their buildings for drag parties.
> 
> “What we are ultimately going to see is churches forced to confront this law, forced to do things and allow their facilities to be used by people and for events that diametrically undercut the mission of the church,” he said.
> 
> Robert Noland, of the Kansas Family Policy Council, said the law would extend well beyond allowing access for gay weddings.
> 
> “They (churches) could not deny renting space to a gay couple if they want to have a party,” he told Fox News. “This is just another example of government creating a law imposing upon the freedom of religion and basically telling churches what they can and can’t do.”
> 
> So what could happen to churches in Hutchinson that refuse to accommodate gay parties or weddings?
> 
> “Unless the city council includes an exemption for churches, it would generate a discrimination complaint for the gay couple and it would be investigated,” Dye told Fox News. She said any churches found guilty of violating the law could be subjected to fines or other penalties.
> 
> Gary Ridge, an associate pastor of Westside Baptist Church, told Fox News their congregation would not comply with the proposed law should it pass. He said their church would refuse to host either gay weddings or parties – even if it meant a possible investigation or fines.
> 
> “We apply the Bible to our lives,” he said. “When there is a contradiction between what the city council asks and what the Bible says, we are going to follow the Bible.”
> 
> “This is an opportunity for the LGBT community to cram their belief system down on our community,” Ridge said. “It may look like a small step, but it’s not the end. Before you know it they will be able to shut down churches for preaching Romans 1:26-27. We’ll be sued for refusing to have homosexual weddings.”
> 
> Ridge said Hutchinson is a conservative city, a part of the Bible Belt – and he blamed the controversy on outsiders.
> 
> “This is part of a bigger desire to have their lifestyle condoned and accepted,” he said. “We don’t condone their activity.”
> 
> The Hutchinson measure would also have a major impact on private businesses and landlords. Restaurants, bars and retail shops would be required to provide special bathrooms for individuals who may have male body parts but identify as a female.
> 
> According to a FAQ sheet provided by the city, employers would also be forced to allow workers to dress based on their gender identity. Read the entire FAQ sheet by clicking here.
> 
> “Dress codes would not be precluded as long as an employer allows an employee to appear, groom and dress consistent with the employee’s gender identity and gender expression,” the FAQ stated.
> 
> As far as bathrooms, the city FAQ stated, “A transgender person must be allowed to use restrooms appropriate to their gender identity rather than their assigned gender at birth without being harassed or questioned.”
> 
> The city’s revised ordinance would also require transgender individuals to use the locker room and shower facilities of their choosing.
> 
> Another issue for Hutchinson’s Christian community involves workplace discrimination. The policy dictates that business owners or landlords are not allowed to discriminate based on sexual orientation or gender identity.
> 
> That’s a problem for Michael Brockman, pastor of Christ Lutheran Church.
> 
> “I know a couple who owned a bed and breakfast in Kansas City,” he said. “They decided to shut down because they could see that they were going to be forced to make decisions that might have legal effects upon them. They might be sued if they didn’t rent their facility out to a gay couple who might want to use it.”
> 
> Staver said it’s unfair that Christian business owners might have to make decisions about their future.
> 
> “You shouldn’t have to choose between participating in the marketplace, running a business or operating a church on the one hand and accepting the LGBT agenda on the other,” Staver said. “This is a battle that is coming. This is a culture divide I think we will see play out across the country.”



Of course we knew that this was coming.   Of course.

But don't they know who they are 'messing with'?    

Don't they know what happens whenever the 'enemy' comes into "OUR' territory?   Have they not read God's Word?    

Lord there is no mercy for them.. None!  None whatsoever!

When the Spirit is given to us from heaven,
deserts will become orchards thick as fertile forests.

Honesty and justice will prosper there,
and justice will produce lasting peace and security.

*You, the Lord’s people, will live in peace,
calm and secure, even if hailstones flatten forests and cities.*

Isaiah 32:15-19 CEV

Does anyone think for one minute that God is going to allow any devil to stop us from obeying GOD!    

I  DO NOT CARE WHAT THEY ATTEMPT TO DO!   It will not prosper!

Please read Isaiah 7:1-7   

PLEASE!   

And then come back and tell me not only what it says, that you believe it!  

It is far too late to convince me otherwise.   I don't care what the enemy threatens to do.  he cannot rule the Children of God!   

So to their threats... my response is ... 'So what'!  I fear you not! for you are not my God!  And thank God that they are not!   Who would want to follow such fools in the first place?


----------



## sweetvi

7*Thus saith the Lord God, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. Isaiah 7:7


----------



## Shimmie

sweetvi said:


> 7*Thus saith the Lord God, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. Isaiah 7:7



Thank you, my Love... 

Now, how many times in the Bible have the Children of God been threatened?  

How many times have any of 'us' personally been threatened?

This ain't news!   I do not care what they plan to do....

God's Word says that it is WE His Children who shall prevail, not the fools of this world who think they can overtake us.

Over and over and over again... God says 'Fear not'... 

I Peter 3:8-17

8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

*12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
*

14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

---------------
I promise you I am not being condescending, at least not towards my sisters (and brothers) here nor anywhere in Christ.    However I am surely being direct in putting these fools of this world with their senseless agendas, in their place.    

To their agenda I have this to say:   Do not mess with me... do not!   I have come too far in my faith and my obedience in Christ to allow anyone or anything to mess with me.   Do you want to know how many tears and struggles I've been through to become one with Christ?  The persecutions, the trials, tribulations, let along the 'attacks' upon me and my children.   

Do not even think that any of them will try and stop me from living out my life for Christ Jesus.  He paid the ultimate price for our faith and for our devotion unto Him.  After all I've been through to be saved?  

But, Far More...  After all that Jesus went through to save me.    Jesus paid the ultimate price for our obedience to Him.   I am not wasting an ounce of His precious Blood on those who think they can make me sin against my God for honouring Him.    

One prayer... all it takes is one prayer and God will wipe them out.  He did it for Elijah... It happened to the disobedient children during the reign of Moses when the earth opened wide it's mouth and swallowed them up.   I'm not playing games with these folks. 

If God be for us... who dare be against us?  With God on our side, we can never be denied... His victory.  

In the words of my grandson:  "Evil Shall Not Triumph Over Good"  

In Jesus' Name, Amen


----------



## Nice Lady

There's nothing to fear. God's WORD works for evildoers that gets answers to prayers. So, any laws that is going down or threats against the church are rendered null and void. In my blog, as I said and are living proof, evil never triumphs over good especially if you don't play church


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Although this is taking place across the pond, this WILL come here: http://www.nomblog.com/36707



> Wealthy gay dad, Barrie Drewitt-Barlow, says he and his civil partner Tony will go to court to force churches to host gay weddings. He told the Essex Chronicle that he will take legal action because “*I am still not getting what I want*”. A Government Bill legalising gay marriage passed Parliament recently but it included measures to protect churches from being forced to perform same-sex weddings. Mr Drewitt-Barlow said: “The only way forward for us now is to make a challenge in the courts against the church. “*It is a shame that we are forced to take Christians into a court to get them to recognise us.” *He added: “It upsets me because I want it so much – a big lavish ceremony, the whole works, I just don’t think it is going to happen straight away. “As much as people are saying this is a good thing *I am still not getting what I want.” *


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Belle Du Jour said:


> Although this is taking place across the pond, this WILL come here: http://www.nomblog.com/36707



This is a demon speaking through this man. He keeps saying he's not getting what he wants and he's targeting the church which means he is attacking the faith and obedience of the Christians... Nothing but the devil. With all the options out there for having a "wedding" why does he want it so bad in a church building? The militant homosexual is upon us. Literally trying to force this down the throat of a Christian and will not be satisfied until they do. Does anyone notice that everyone has rights but Christians? We are the only ones who they don't want to give free speech to now this? It's official, I hate this place.


----------



## Galadriel

MrsHaseeb said:


> Does anyone notice that everyone has rights but Christians? We are the only ones who they don't want to give free speech to now this?



We've got a tough time ahead of us.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Although this is taking place across the pond, this WILL come here: http://www.nomblog.com/36707



This man is going straight to hell... 

and before he gets a chance to take anything to court regarding Christians.


----------



## JaneBond007

Belle Du Jour said:


> Although this is taking place across the pond, this WILL come here: http://www.nomblog.com/36707




It's truly kinda stupid because they could form their own "church" and do whatever the *HELL* they wanted...literally.  Like Antiochus throwing the defiling and filthy pig into the Temple....  He should take his lawsuit and throw it at the mosque and see how far he gets.  He'd get some kinda service, alright...a funeral somewhere.


Shimmie

Pray for his soul to go to heaven.


----------



## Shimmie

JaneBond007 said:


> It's truly kinda stupid because they could form their own "church" and do whatever the *HELL* they wanted...literally.  Like Antiochus throwing the defiling and filthy pig into the Temple....  He should take his lawsuit and throw it at the mosque and see how far he gets.  He'd get some kinda service, alright...a funeral somewhere.
> 
> 
> Shimmie
> 
> Pray for his soul to go to heaven.



He has to repent... turn around and back off and seek God's heart.  He has to be willing.   So that is my prayer for him.  In Jesus' Name, Amen.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

JaneBond007 said:


> It's truly kinda stupid because they could form their own "church" and do whatever the *HELL* they wanted...literally.  Like Antiochus throwing the defiling and filthy pig into the Temple....  He should take his lawsuit and throw it at the mosque and see how far he gets.  He'd get some kinda service, alright...a funeral somewhere.
> 
> 
> Shimmie
> 
> Pray for his soul to go to heaven.



I WISH they would try that mess in a mosque!


----------



## Galadriel

JaneBond007 said:


> It's truly kinda stupid because they could form their own "church" and do whatever the *HELL* they wanted...literally.  Like Antiochus throwing the defiling and filthy pig into the Temple....  He should take his lawsuit and throw it at the mosque and see how far he gets.  He'd get some kinda service, alright...a funeral somewhere.
> 
> 
> @Shimmie
> 
> Pray for his soul to go to heaven.



 And why does he see it fit to force acceptance of his lifestyle on us? If someone wanting a three-way marriage came to church seeking a wedding, we would equally turn them away because we believe marriage is between one man and one woman.

This is what happens when you have a corrupt culture. It can't abide a religion that proclaims objective or absolute truth.


----------



## Shimmie

JaneBond007 said:


> It's truly kinda stupid because they could form their own "church" and do whatever the *HELL* they wanted...literally.  Like Antiochus throwing the defiling and filthy pig into the Temple....  He should take his lawsuit and throw it at the mosque and see how far he gets.  He'd get some kinda service, alright...a funeral somewhere.
> 
> 
> Shimmie
> 
> Pray for his soul to go to heaven.





Belle Du Jour said:


> I WISH they would try that mess in a mosque!





Galadriel said:


> And why does he see it fit to force acceptance of his lifestyle on us? If someone wanting a three-way marriage came to church seeking a wedding, we would equally turn them away because we believe marriage is between one man and one woman.
> 
> This is what happens when you have a corrupt culture. It can't abide a religion that proclaims objective or absolute truth.



Sisters... (Galadriel, Belle Du Jour, JaneBond007)

I find it quite interesting how the gay activists will not even approach a Mosque...  

I wonder why... :scratchch:    

Your thoughts on this?  

Or have I missed it, meaning that they have approached a Mosque or other  religions to 'force' their lifestyle upon them.   I can't see them getting their way with Christians, least there be an uprising that they'll never forget.


----------



## JaneBond007

Cuz they know they will get cut the heck up trying to force somebody to do something like that.  Christians turn the other cheek, remember.


----------



## Shimmie

JaneBond007 said:


> Cuz they know they will get cut the heck up trying to force somebody to do something like that.  Christians turn the other cheek, remember.



   

I'd love to see them 'try' it, though.  I'd love to see them try and hit a Mosque.   Beyond hilarity to see what they'd gat in return.


----------



## Galadriel

Shimmie said:


> Sisters... (@Galadriel, @Belle Du Jour, @JaneBond007)
> 
> I find it quite interesting how the gay activists will not even approach a Mosque...
> 
> I wonder why... :scratchch:
> 
> Your thoughts on this?
> 
> Or have I missed it, meaning that they have approached a Mosque or other  religions to 'force' their lifestyle upon them.   I can't see them getting their way with Christians, least there be an uprising that they'll never forget.



Shimmie too many Christians have become secularized or lukewarm. It's easy for the "lobbies" to push at us and then cry about hatred/discrimination/intolerance if we stand up. Worse is when they try to destroy you for your views (e.g., Chic-Fil-A, etc.) We shouldn't be afraid to speak up about our beliefs in the public square, the courthouse, and wherever else we need to.


----------



## Shimmie

Galadriel said:


> Shimmie too many Christians have become secularized or lukewarm. It's easy for the "lobbies" to push at us and then cry about hatred/discrimination/intolerance if we stand up. Worse is when they try to destroy you for your views (e.g., Chic-Fil-A, etc.) We shouldn't be afraid to speak up about our beliefs in the public square, the courthouse, and wherever else we need to.



Oh my goodness, I didn't put it together like that.  It's true Galadriel, far too many Christians have weakened our defense and have made 'us' easy targets.     Good explanation.     

"We" have 'traitors' in the camp... all surnamed 'Judas'


----------



## Renewed1

A few years back I had a Muslims friend.  She told me how a few middle eastern gay men tried to enter their mosque and they were chased out.

I thought it was hilarious at the time, but they may be in to something.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

I opened up my Bible to Ezekiel 36:16-38.  I can't quote it all but a few verses that stand out:

22 ...Not for your sake do I act, house of Israel, but for the sake of my holy name, which you desecrated among the nations to which you came.
25 I will sprinkle clean water over you to make you clean; from all your impurities and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
27 I will put my spirit within you so that you walk in my statutes, observe my ordinances and keep them.
36 Then the surrounding nations shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt what was destroyed and replanted what was desolate.  I, the Lord, have spoken: I will do it.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> I opened up my Bible to Ezekiel 36:16-38.  I can't quote it all but a few verses that stand out:
> 
> 22 ...Not for your sake do I act, house of Israel, but for the sake of my holy name, which you desecrated among the nations to which you came.
> 
> 
> 25 I will sprinkle clean water over you to make you clean; from all your impurities and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
> 
> 27 I will put my spirit within you so that you walk in my statutes, observe my ordinances and keep them.
> 
> 36 Then the surrounding nations shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt what was destroyed and replanted what was desolate.  I, the Lord, have spoken: I will do it.



Thank you, Lady Belle... God's Word has spoken 

_I will put my spirit within you so that you walk in my statutes, observe my ordinances and keep them_

No law on earth can 'stop' us from honouring God...nor force us to give life to their sin...

And it's not for our sake, but for the sake of God's name.


----------



## sweetvi

http://news.msn.com/us/where-gay-marriage-stands-in-all-50-states

This is where gay marriage has been approved:


Connecticut

California

Delaware

Iowa

Maine

Maryland

Massachusetts — Massachusetts became the first state to fully legalize gay marriage in May of 2004, seven months after the state's supreme court ruled that barring same-sex marriages was a violation of the state's constitution.

Minnesota
New Hampshire

New York

Rhode Island

Vermont

Washington

Washington, D.C. — The District of Columbia isn't a state, although it functions in much the same way, with additional Congressional oversight. The city council passed a bill legalizing gay marriage in December, 2009 and the District started issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples in March of 2010 after opponents in Congress failed to block the law.

This is disheartening because these people really don't understand the ramifications....


----------



## sweetvi

GAY MARRIAGE BANNED BY STATE LAW

Indiana

North Carolina

Pennsylvania

West Virginia

Wyoming

GAY MARRIAGE BANNED BY STATE CONSTITUTION

Many of the states that have passed constitutional amendments banning gay marriage also have specific state laws against them. Those laws are redundant when there is a constitutional ban, but often predate the constitutional amendments. On the other hand, several states that allow civil unions (listed above) have constitutional bans on gay marriage. The 25 states listed below do not allow gay marriages or civil unions of any sort.

Alaska

Alabama

Arizona

Arkansas

Florida

Georgia

Idaho

Kansas

Kentucky

Louisiana

Michigan

Missouri

Mississippi

Montana

Nebraska

North Carolina

North Dakota

Ohio
Oklahoma

South Carolina

South Dakota

Tennessee

Texas

Utah

Virginia


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Those states will be the next battle for the Gay Lobby.  In PA, the politicians are actively pushing for gay marriage and one county official is issuing marriage licenses although he has no authority to do so


----------



## Blackpearl1993

take a look at this:

http://ow.ly/nEmyC


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Blackpearl1993 said:


> take a look at this:
> 
> http://ow.ly/nEmyC



This is nothing. Worse is already in the works. For those who really are saved, we better be seeking to be filled with more of the Holy Ghost to be able to endure what's coming because its coming no matter how much we pray against it.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Duplicate.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Blackpearl1993 said:


> take a look at this:
> 
> http://ow.ly/nEmyC



Okay, so now religion=having a bias


----------



## Shimmie

It's too late for any of us to fear, what man 'may' (threaten) to do unto us.

it's too late....

Jesus said:

See to it, that you're not troubled...

Jesus said:

Occupy til' I come...

Jesus said:

All power both in Heaven and in earth has been given unto 'Me' (Him), now "YOU' ('us') go and you laid hands on the sick, cast out devils, and rule the earth...

Jesus said:

...and nothing shall by any means hurt you...

It's too late to put fear into me or any of us.  We've come too far... we've gained too much.   We have all of the power and the prayers which shall not be unanswered.  

God is in the midst of us and we shall not be moved.   

For there are more that be with us than be with them...

It's too late, no one can stop nor hinder us.  This earth belongs to us.  

Jesus said so.   

In Jesus' Name, Amen and Amen.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Big surprise (not): not all children of SS couples support SSM:
http://www.nomblog.com/37078


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Belle Du Jour said:


> Big surprise (not): not all children of SS couples support SSM:
> http://www.nomblog.com/37078


This was so good...I just had to put the whole article here.  Thank you, thank you!!!


*Not All Children Raised by Gay Parents Support Same-Sex Marriage*

August 15, 2013 at 3:00 pm

 In a 2012 landmark study  on same-sex parenting (and its long-term effects on  children), sociologist Mark Regnerus' identified 248 adults who were  raised by couples in same-sex romantic relationships and gave reports  unfavorable to the same-sex marriage agenda.






Robert Oscar Lopez

 Robert Oscar Lopez bravely shares his own personal story on what it  was like to be raised by two women, and what he missed out on:Quite simply, growing up with gay parents was very  difficult, and not because of prejudice from neighbors. People in our  community didn’t really know what was going on in the house. To most  outside observers, I was a well-raised, high-achieving child, finishing  high school with straight A’s.

 Inside, however, I was confused. When your home life is so  drastically different from everyone around you, in a fundamental way  striking at basic physical relations, you grow up weird. I have no  mental health disorders or biological conditions. I just grew up in a  house so unusual that I was destined to exist as a social outcast.

 My peers learned all the unwritten rules of decorum and body language  in their homes; they understood what was appropriate to say in certain  settings and what wasn’t; they learned both traditionally masculine and  traditionally feminine social mechanisms.

Even  if my peers’ parents were divorced, and many of them were, they still  grew up seeing male and female social models. They learned, typically,  how to be bold and unflinching from male figures and how to write  thank-you cards and be sensitive from female figures. These are  stereotypes, of course, but stereotypes come in handy when you  inevitably leave the safety of your lesbian mom’s trailer and have to  work and survive in a world where everybody thinks in stereotypical  terms, even gays.

 I had no male figure at all to follow, and my mother and her partner  were both unlike traditional fathers or traditional mothers. As a  result, I had very few recognizable social cues to offer potential male  or female friends, since I was neither confident nor sensitive to  others. Thus I befriended people rarely and alienated others easily. Gay  people who grew up in straight parents’ households may have struggled  with their sexual orientation; but when it came to the vast social  universe of adaptations not dealing with sexuality—how to act, how to  speak, how to behave—they had the advantage of learning at home. Many  gays don’t realize what a blessing it was to be reared in a traditional  home. -LifeSiteNews​


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Big surprise (not): not all children of SS couples support SSM:
> http://www.nomblog.com/37078





Nice & Wavy said:


> This was so good...I just had to put the whole article here.  Thank you, thank you!!!
> 
> 
> *Not All Children Raised by Gay Parents Support Same-Sex Marriage*
> 
> August 15, 2013 at 3:00 pm
> 
> In a 2012 landmark study  on same-sex parenting (and its long-term effects on  children), sociologist Mark Regnerus' identified 248 adults who were  raised by couples in same-sex romantic relationships and gave reports  unfavorable to the same-sex marriage agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Oscar Lopez
> 
> Robert Oscar Lopez bravely shares his own personal story on what it  was like to be raised by two women, and what he missed out on:Quite simply, growing up with gay parents was very  difficult, and not because of prejudice from neighbors. People in our  community didn’t really know what was going on in the house. To most  outside observers, I was a well-raised, high-achieving child, finishing  high school with straight A’s.
> 
> Inside, however, I was confused. When your home life is so  drastically different from everyone around you, in a fundamental way  striking at basic physical relations, you grow up weird. I have no  mental health disorders or biological conditions. I just grew up in a  house so unusual that I was destined to exist as a social outcast.
> 
> My peers learned all the unwritten rules of decorum and body language  in their homes; they understood what was appropriate to say in certain  settings and what wasn’t; they learned both traditionally masculine and  traditionally feminine social mechanisms.
> 
> Even  if my peers’ parents were divorced, and many of them were, they still  grew up seeing male and female social models. They learned, typically,  how to be bold and unflinching from male figures and how to write  thank-you cards and be sensitive from female figures. These are  stereotypes, of course, but stereotypes come in handy when you  inevitably leave the safety of your lesbian mom’s trailer and have to  work and survive in a world where everybody thinks in stereotypical  terms, even gays.
> 
> I had no male figure at all to follow, and my mother and her partner  were both unlike traditional fathers or traditional mothers. As a  result, I had very few recognizable social cues to offer potential male  or female friends, since I was neither confident nor sensitive to  others. Thus I befriended people rarely and alienated others easily. Gay  people who grew up in straight parents’ households may have struggled  with their sexual orientation; but when it came to the vast social  universe of adaptations not dealing with sexuality—how to act, how to  speak, how to behave—they had the advantage of learning at home. Many  gays don’t realize what a blessing it was to be reared in a traditional  home. -LifeSiteNews​



The 'Truth' always wins.  Always.   The gay activists cannot keep this hidden and the supreme court ought to be ashamed of themselves for being so stupid as to not acknowledge this Truth.


----------



## Shimmie

*Proven Fact:*

Prior to the NFSS, the academy had come to believe that children raised by gay or lesbian parents fared, on average, no worse, and in some cases better, than children raised by heterosexual parents. 

Dr. Regnerus and a group of social scientists decided to evaluate this claim empirically by studying the responses of children who were raised in a variety of family structures. 

The goal of the NFSS, from the beginning, was to gather the best social science possible to address the question of what family arrangements were best for children. 

The results of the NFSS research revealed that the “no differences” claim—*the claim that children raised by parents in gay or lesbian relationships fared no worse and in some cases better than children raised by intact biological parents—was not true.* 

*On the contrary*, *the children of these households, on average, did worse than children raised by their biological, still-married parents*.

http://www.familystructurestudies.com/about


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Of course!  Shimmie, as much as people today want to completely ignore biology, it comes down to nature.  One man + One Woman was the way it was always supposed to be and will be.  Yesterday (on my way to church  no less ) I saw clearly what was a man in woman's clothes trying to live as a woman.  I could see it was a man from like 20 feet away.  He clearly wasn't comfortable with himself because he was looking down and looking self-conscious.  I was just really disturbed.


----------



## Shimmie

Belle Du Jour said:


> Of course!  Shimmie, as much as people today want to completely ignore biology, it comes down to nature.  One man + One Woman was the way it was always supposed to be and will be.  Yesterday (on my way to church  no less ) I saw clearly what was a man in woman's clothes trying to live as a woman.  I could see it was a man from like 20 feet away.  He clearly wasn't comfortable with himself because he was looking down and looking self-conscious.  I was just really disturbed.



Lady Belle.... 

The Holy Ghost is moving....   Yes He is...The Holy Ghost is moving.  He is leading and guiding us into all Truth.   It's just as Jesus said He would do.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

I don't believe the world is as accepting of homosexuality and same sex marriage as people. What's happening now is that the demonic principality that is behind the homosexual agenda has exalted the homosexuals into places of power and they are bullying people. Most people, if they are not saved, are simply cowering and being quiet out of fear. The homosexual agenda is domineering and very effective because of it. Its getting to a point where you can't even be neutral, you have to celebrate the homosexuals and literally go out of your way to treat them "normal". I do believe the dynamics are starting to shift as the homosexual spirit comes across in mass upon our youth. In a few years (and I'm being generous) there will be NO resistance to homosexuality because the children who are being brain washed to accept it will be older.


----------



## Laela

Boom! 
-------------
..that is why so many children are being "adopted" by gay couples who have been positioning themselves economically and politically to facilitate this agenda.  



MrsHaseeb said:


> I don't believe the world is as accepting of homosexuality and same sex marriage as people. What's happening now is that the demonic principality that is behind the homosexual agenda has exalted the homosexuals into places of power and they are bullying people. Most people, if they are not saved, are simply cowering and being quiet out of fear. The homosexual agenda is domineering and very effective because of it. Its getting to a point where you can't even be neutral, you have to celebrate the homosexuals and literally go out of your way to treat them "normal". I do believe the dynamics are starting to shift as the homosexual spirit comes across in mass upon our youth. In a few years (and I'm being generous) *there will be NO resistance to homosexuality because the children who are being brain washed to accept it will be older.*


----------



## Shimmie

MrsHaseeb said:


> I don't believe the world is as accepting of homosexuality and same sex marriage as people. What's happening now is that the demonic principality that is behind the homosexual agenda has exalted the homosexuals into places of power and they are bullying people. Most people, if they are not saved, are simply cowering and being quiet out of fear.
> 
> The homosexual agenda is domineering and very effective because of it. Its getting to a point where you can't even be neutral, you have to celebrate the homosexuals and literally go out of your way to treat them "normal".
> 
> I do believe the dynamics are starting to shift as the homosexual spirit comes across in mass upon our youth. In a few years (and I'm being generous) there will be NO resistance to homosexuality because the children who are being brain washed to accept it will be older.



MrsHaseeb... this is an excellent Word... excellent.   One for all to take heed to.  

May I add something?  

There is still a consequence to the sin of homosexuality.   And I truly see such a consequence that it will literally scare the 'hell' out of those who are 'active' and those who support it.   

I 'see' it, so plain.  All ready the truth is being exposed about the lies that the gay activists have presented to achieve their goals.  However, lies cannot prevail against the Truth.     

They have holes in their sand buckets.  And all of what they have placed into these buckets is running out AND the buckets are bent and rusty with weak handles.   They cannot prevail in this...they have no substance to stand upon.  The laws of reciprosity are against them.


----------



## Shimmie

Laela said:


> Boom!
> -------------
> ..that is why so many children are being "adopted" by gay couples who have been positioning themselves economically and politically to facilitate this agenda.



  That's exactly what their goals and objectives were / are...  


BUT... it's a sure fail and the truth is coming out loud and clear...

http://www.familystructurestudies.com/about

http://www.nomblog.com/37078


----------



## Blairx0

Belle Du Jour said:


> Big surprise (not): not all children of SS couples support SSM:
> http://www.nomblog.com/37078



It said they interviewwd 248 children of same sex couples, but only give results of one. I clicked the link, but couldn't find the results. I would be more interested to see what the majority of children now adults thought. They story makes a good point about being left without gender roles fulfilled. I wonder if the others studied fulfilled them they way other children of heterosexual relationships do.


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Blairx0 said:


> It said they interviewwd 248 children of same sex couples, but only give results of one. I clicked the link, but couldn't find the results. I would be more interested to see what the majority of children now adults thought. They story makes a good point about being left without gender roles fulfilled. I wonder if the others studied fulfilled them they way other children of heterosexual relationships do.



Here's a start: http://www.prc.utexas.edu/nfss/

You may be able to do a search on google or maybe pubmed to see the actual study.  I would like to see the original research as well.  If I find it I will post it.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

We must keep this Archbishop in prayer....you know he will be under attack after these statements.....  Makes me so angry because everyone (gays included) can say whatever they want, but let anyone talk about gays...oh boy, you step on a stick of dynamite

But,  he preaching though!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-marriage-satan-john-nienstedt_n_3927615.html

*Minnesota Archbishop John Nienstedt Claims Satan Behind Gay Marriage, Condoms And Porn *

Fornicators beware: sodomy, condoms and pornography are the work of the devil.

  That's the message of a speech posted online last week by the Catholic Archbishop of St. Paul and Minnesota, John C. Niendstedt. A controversial religious leader with a stridently anti-gay stance, Niendstedt originally made the comments while speaking to the conservative Napa Institute Conference on August 2. The speech detailed the importance of family, as well as the devil's multiple attempts to weaken the institution of heterosexual marriage. 

*"Today, many evil forces have set their sights on the dissolution of  marriage and the debasing of family life," Niendstedt said.  "Sodomy,  abortion, contraception, pornography, the redefinition of marriage, and  the denial of objective truth are just some of the forces threatening  the stability of our civilization. The source of these machinations is  none other than the Father of Lies. Satan knows all too well the value  that the family contributes to the fabric of a good solid society, as  well as the future of God’s work on earth."*

In Niendstedt's opinion of course, *"family" means specifically a  union "comprised of one man and one woman."* Delivered one day after  Minnesota began issuing same-sex marriage licenses, the Napa Institute  speech is consistent with the archbishop's public statements condemning gay marriage, notes The New Civil Rights Movement.

  Voted Minneapolis blog City Pages' Best Villain of the Twin Cities in 2013, Niendstedt has "used his position to bully proponents and demonize fellow Catholics who disagreed with him," wrote the blog's Jesse Marx. "He donated more than $650,000 of church money to the anti-gay-marriage cause."

In October of 2012, Niendstedt found himself at the center of a  similar controversy when a letter he wrote surfaced in which he tells  the mother a young gay man that she must reject her son or go to hell  herself.
  "I write to inform you that the teaching of the Catholic Church on  homosexuality, as described in paragraphs 2357 and 2358 and 2359 of the  Catechism of the Catholic Church is rooted in Scripture and based on the  Natural Moral Law," Niendstedt wrote, according to ThinkProgress.

  "Catholics are bound in conscience to believe this teaching. Those who  do not cannot consider themselves to be Catholic and ought not to  participate in the sacramental life of the Church... Your eternal  salvation may well depend upon a conversation of heart on this topic."


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> We must keep this Archbishop in prayer....you know he will be under attack after these statements.....  Makes me so angry because everyone (gays included) can say whatever they want, but let anyone talk about gays...oh boy, you step on a stick of dynamite
> 
> But,  he preaching though!!!
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-marriage-satan-john-nienstedt_n_3927615.html
> 
> *Minnesota Archbishop John Nienstedt Claims Satan Behind Gay Marriage, Condoms And Porn *
> 
> Fornicators beware: sodomy, condoms and pornography are the work of the devil.
> 
> That's the message of a speech posted online last week by the Catholic Archbishop of St. Paul and Minnesota, John C. Niendstedt. A controversial religious leader with a stridently anti-gay stance, Niendstedt originally made the comments while speaking to the conservative Napa Institute Conference on August 2. The speech detailed the importance of family, as well as the devil's multiple attempts to weaken the institution of heterosexual marriage.
> 
> *"Today, many evil forces have set their sights on the dissolution of  marriage and the debasing of family life," Niendstedt said.  "Sodomy,  abortion, contraception, pornography, the redefinition of marriage, and  the denial of objective truth are just some of the forces threatening  the stability of our civilization. The source of these machinations is  none other than the Father of Lies. Satan knows all too well the value  that the family contributes to the fabric of a good solid society, as  well as the future of God’s work on earth."*
> 
> In Niendstedt's opinion of course, *"family" means specifically a  union "comprised of one man and one woman."* Delivered one day after  Minnesota began issuing same-sex marriage licenses, the Napa Institute  speech is consistent with the archbishop's public statements condemning gay marriage, notes The New Civil Rights Movement.
> 
> Voted Minneapolis blog City Pages' Best Villain of the Twin Cities in 2013, Niendstedt has "used his position to bully proponents and demonize fellow Catholics who disagreed with him," wrote the blog's Jesse Marx. "He donated more than $650,000 of church money to the anti-gay-marriage cause."
> 
> In October of 2012, Niendstedt found himself at the center of a  similar controversy when a letter he wrote surfaced in which he tells  the mother a young gay man that she must reject her son or go to hell  herself.
> "I write to inform you that the teaching of the Catholic Church on  homosexuality, as described in paragraphs 2357 and 2358 and 2359 of the  Catechism of the Catholic Church is rooted in Scripture and based on the  Natural Moral Law," Niendstedt wrote, according to ThinkProgress.
> 
> "Catholics are bound in conscience to believe this teaching. Those who  do not cannot consider themselves to be Catholic and ought not to  participate in the sacramental life of the Church... Your eternal  salvation may well depend upon a conversation of heart on this topic."



Nice & Wavy...

Hey Sis... Can't nobody 'complain' (  ) that he left out the 'OTHER' sins. 

_Folks be sayin'..._ ... _'err' body talk about gay sin, but don't hear nuthin' bout other sins'....   _

Okay... well now God has answered their prayers.   This Minister covered it all and did it just for them.   He even got the _plastic covers _in check...    

I'm proud of him.  God bless him and indeed I will be praying for him.  He ain't skeered to speak the truth and nothing but the truth.   

Bless Him, Jesus.  Bless all of the others who stand for you and righteousness.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Shimmie said:


> @Nice & Wavy...
> 
> Hey Sis... *Can't nobody 'complain' (  ) that he left out the 'OTHER' sins. *
> 
> *Folks be sayin'... ... 'err' body talk about gay sin, but don't hear nuthin' bout other sins'....   *
> 
> *Okay... well now God has answered their prayers.*   This Minister covered it all and did it just for them.   *He even got the plastic covers in check...    *
> 
> I'm proud of him.  God bless him and indeed I will be praying for him.  He ain't skeered to speak the truth and nothing but the truth.
> 
> Bless Him, Jesus.  Bless all of the others who stand for you and righteousness.


Yes....to all the bolded!!!


----------



## Belle Du Jour

Nice & Wavy said:


> "I write to inform you that the teaching of the Catholic Church on  homosexuality, as described in paragraphs 2357 and 2358 and 2359 of the  Catechism of the Catholic Church is rooted in Scripture and based on the  Natural Moral Law," Niendstedt wrote, according to ThinkProgress.
> 
> "Catholics are bound in conscience to believe this teaching. Those who  do not cannot consider themselves to be Catholic and ought not to  participate in the sacramental life of the Church... Your eternal  salvation may well depend upon a conversation of heart on this topic."



And many who don't agree with the church or are openly committing these sins have the nerve to have their butt is in the communion line.  People like Nanci Pelosi and Sebilius and Biden claim to be "catholic" but their policies are anything but.

I'm also glad someone is acknowledging Satan's role in this.  He was worked very hard to get people to forget he is real and these days, talking about demons or spirits or Satan will make you look crazy.  All of this crap is definitely demonic!


----------



## sweetvi

Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wowwwwwwwwww


There is no gray or blurred lines with GOD, because it is only black or white!!!


The way the enemy has received many is exactly what he did in the garden with Eve.  He makes you look for the gray area..........when it doesn't exist.


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy said:


> Yes....to all the bolded!!!



You know I'm serious about this, Sis.   Now it's been recorded for 'ALL' the world to see and hear, all sexual sins have been covered.    No sin has been left _'unturned_'.   They all had their _turn_ in this Minster's message.  

The 'angel choir' Now sings _"oooolah laahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"_  



Belle Du Jour said:


> *And many who don't agree with the church or are openly committing these sins have the nerve to have their butt is in the communion line.
> 
> People like Nanci Pelosi and Sebilius and Biden claim to be "catholic" but their policies are anything but.*
> 
> I'm also glad someone is acknowledging Satan's role in this.  He was worked very hard to get people to forget he is real and these days, talking about demons or spirits or Satan will make you look crazy.  All of this crap is definitely demonic!



Oh my Goodness.... Lady Belle, you have me in tears, laughing at the bolded.  I can't believe you said 'butt'....    

I 'hear' you, Lady Belle; you're not a phoney, you're not playing games with God.   I can see you at the front of the line doing this as they (_Joe Biden and nem'_) try to approach the Altar to take communion....   

I love it.


----------



## Nice & Wavy

Belle Du Jour said:


> And many who don't agree with the church or are openly committing these sins have the nerve to have their butt is in the communion line.  People like Nanci Pelosi and Sebilius and Biden claim to be "catholic" but their policies are anything but.
> 
> I'm also glad someone is acknowledging Satan's role in this.  He was worked very hard to get people to forget he is real and these days, talking about demons or spirits or Satan will make you look crazy.  All of this crap is definitely demonic!


----------



## Shimmie

Nice & Wavy thanks again for posting this message.  I had a full chance to listen.   The Minister truly has an Honest spirit.   He's not spilling hatred or 'bigotry'.   He is speaking the truth about Life and God's Perfect Will for our Lives.  

He is very respectful and respectable.   He's appealing for the family and for the souls of all.  Absolutely no malice is in his message.  :Rose:


----------



## Blackpearl1993

See what a society steeped in sexual depravity can lead to:

http://ow.ly/pbrca

This article broke my heart and left me in tears. No one deserves this type of treatment. Ladies, please agree with me in prayer for all of these young people:

Father God, please lift up every victim of this tragic assault and violation. Please comfort them, their families and loved ones. Please Father, protect these young men from any self blame or deprecation, protect them from taunting and bullying in regards to this tragedy. Step into their pain and shoulder this burden. Heal their bodies and spirits. Bless them to turn to You for comfort and not transfer their anger or any ill feelings to You. Bless them to pour their hearts out to You. Father, guide the words of family friends and community members as the names of these victims are revealed and the trial takes place. Bless the people around these victims not to erroneously blame the victim, ridicule them, or ostracize them. Bless the parents of these young men to embrace them, pray with them, and provide all the love and support that these young men need. Bless these young men that they will not begin to question their sexuality, choose to turn to homosexuality, or assault anyone else. Give them beauty for ashes, Father God, as only you can. Bless them most of all to know that You love them and that this fact will never change. Bless them to know that they are not "damaged" or "less than a man" because of this tragedy. Bless them to know that they are fearfully and wonderfully made and that nothing anyone could do to them will ever change this. Lift them and their families up, Lord. Hold them in your arms and lavish them with your love. Bless these young men that this tragedy will have no negative effect on their current or future relationships and that it will not detract in any way from their future marriages.

Father for the boys who committed this crime, please heal their hearts. Their hearts are in a very dark place. Draw them to you and bless each and every one to admit their crime and accept the consequences. Bless them to come to know you, surrender their hearts to you, and never commit such an atrocity again. Bless them to fully repent and make heartfelt amends to their victims and the families of the victims. Bless the school, law enforcement, lawyers, the judge and the jury to see the facts clearly, to take this case seriously, to be sensitive to the victims, and to do what is right and just in this case. Let justice be served and the perpetrators to be brought to the full measure of justice according to Your perfect will.  Father, let this horrible situation break the heart of every parent, teacher, coach, school administrator, community member, and school board member so that policies, practices and care is put in place to make sure that we are ALL doing all we can to keep our children safe from all types of abuse. Father, do whatever You need to do to stop sexual predators from attacking our children, no matter who they are or how old they are. I plead the blood of Jesus around our babies. This means not only the ones who often become victims but also those who are unknowingly being indoctrinated by the worldly, humanist ideals around them and are therefore becoming desensitized to depravity and are choosing to partake in such acts. Remove the scales from the eyes of the parents and caregivers. Bless them to discern and eradicate the worldly influences around their children, to carefully watch over the friends and associations their children are making, to give their hearts to You and repent, and to disciple their children. Father God, lift up these perpetrators and their families. Amen

Note: the media is making light of this situation by erroneously calling it "anal hazing". This tragedy is homosexual rape and it is extremely serious. It reminded me of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is not lost on me that by calling this horrible act something else, it makes it seem less serious an grave than it really is.


----------



## MrsHaseeb

Blackpearl1993 said:


> See what a society steeped in sexual depravity can lead to:
> 
> http://ow.ly/pbrca
> 
> This article broke my heart and left me in tears. No one deserves this type of treatment. Ladies, please agree with me in prayer for all of these young people:
> 
> Father God, please lift up every victim of this tragic assault and violation. Please comfort them, their families and loved ones. Please Father, protect these young men from any self blame or deprecation, protect them from taunting and bullying in regards to this tragedy. Step into their pain and shoulder this burden. Heal their bodies and spirits. Bless them to turn to You for comfort and not transfer their anger or any ill feelings to You. Bless them to pour their hearts out to You. Father, guide the words of family friends and community members as the names of these victims are revealed and the trial takes place. Bless the people around these victims not to erroneously blame the victim, ridicule them, or ostracize them. Bless the parents of these young men to embrace them, pray with them, and provide all the love and support that these young men need. Bless these young men that they will not begin to question their sexuality, choose to turn to homosexuality, or assault anyone else. Give them beauty for ashes, Father God, as only you can. Bless them most of all to know that You love them and that this fact will never change. Bless them to know that they are not "damaged" or "less than a man" because of this tragedy. Bless them to know that they are fearfully and wonderfully made and that nothing anyone could do to them will ever change this. Lift them and their families up, Lord. Hold them in your arms and lavish them with your love. Bless these young men that this tragedy will have no negative effect on their current or future relationships and that it will not detract in any way from their future marriages.
> 
> Father for the boys who committed this crime, please heal their hearts. Their hearts are in a very dark place. Draw them to you and bless each and every one to admit their crime and accept the consequences. Bless them to come to know you, surrender their hearts to you, and never commit such an atrocity again. Bless them to fully repent and make heartfelt amends to their victims and the families of the victims. Bless the school, law enforcement, lawyers, the judge and the jury to see the facts clearly, to take this case seriously, to be sensitive to the victims, and to do what is right and just in this case. Let justice be served and the perpetrators to be brought to the full measure of justice according to Your perfect will.  Father, let this horrible situation break the heart of every parent, teacher, coach, school administrator, community member, and school board member so that policies, practices and care is put in place to make sure that we are ALL doing all we can to keep our children safe from all types of abuse. Father, do whatever You need to do to stop sexual predators from attacking our children, no matter who they are or how old they are. I plead the blood of Jesus around our babies. This means not only the ones who often become victims but also those who are unknowingly being indoctrinated by the worldly, humanist ideals around them and are therefore becoming desensitized to depravity and are choosing to partake in such acts. Remove the scales from the eyes of the parents and caregivers. Bless them to discern and eradicate the worldly influences around their children, to carefully watch over the friends and associations their children are making, to give their hearts to You and repent, and to disciple their children. Father God, lift up these perpetrators and their families. Amen



The homosexual spirit is taking over our young men in mass.. This is really horrible. I agree with you in prayer and will be praying for our youth as well. In Jesus name.


----------



## Shimmie

Blackpearl1993 said:


> See what a society steeped in sexual depravity can lead to:
> 
> http://ow.ly/pbrca
> 
> This article broke my heart and left me in tears. No one deserves this type of treatment. Ladies, please agree with me in prayer for all of these young people:
> 
> Father God, please lift up every victim of this tragic assault and violation. Please comfort them, their families and loved ones. Please Father, protect these young men from any self blame or deprecation, protect them from taunting and bullying in regards to this tragedy. Step into their pain and shoulder this burden. Heal their bodies and spirits. Bless them to turn to You for comfort and not transfer their anger or any ill feelings to You. Bless them to pour their hearts out to You. Father, guide the words of family friends and community members as the names of these victims are revealed and the trial takes place. Bless the people around these victims not to erroneously blame the victim, ridicule them, or ostracize them. Bless the parents of these young men to embrace them, pray with them, and provide all the love and support that these young men need. Bless these young men that they will not begin to question their sexuality, choose to turn to homosexuality, or assault anyone else. Give them beauty for ashes, Father God, as only you can. Bless them most of all to know that You love them and that this fact will never change. Bless them to know that they are not "damaged" or "less than a man" because of this tragedy. Bless them to know that they are fearfully and wonderfully made and that nothing anyone could do to them will ever change this. Lift them and their families up, Lord. Hold them in your arms and lavish them with your love. Bless these young men that this tragedy will have no negative effect on their current or future relationships and that it will not detract in any way from their future marriages.
> 
> Father for the boys who committed this crime, please heal their hearts. Their hearts are in a very dark place. Draw them to you and bless each and every one to admit their crime and accept the consequences. Bless them to come to know you, surrender their hearts to you, and never commit such an atrocity again. Bless them to fully repent and make heartfelt amends to their victims and the families of the victims. Bless the school, law enforcement, lawyers, the judge and the jury to see the facts clearly, to take this case seriously, to be sensitive to the victims, and to do what is right and just in this case. Let justice be served and the perpetrators to be brought to the full measure of justice according to Your perfect will.  Father, let this horrible situation break the heart of every parent, teacher, coach, school administrator, community member, and school board member so that policies, practices and care is put in place to make sure that we are ALL doing all we can to keep our children safe from all types of abuse. Father, do whatever You need to do to stop sexual predators from attacking our children, no matter who they are or how old they are. I plead the blood of Jesus around our babies. This means not only the ones who often become victims but also those who are unknowingly being indoctrinated by the worldly, humanist ideals around them and are therefore becoming desensitized to depravity and are choosing to partake in such acts. Remove the scales from the eyes of the parents and caregivers. Bless them to discern and eradicate the worldly influences around their children, to carefully watch over the friends and associations their children are making, to give their hearts to You and repent, and to disciple their children. Father God, lift up these perpetrators and their families. Amen
> 
> Note: the media is making light of this situation by erroneously calling it "anal hazing". This tragedy is homosexual rape and it is extremely serious. It reminded me of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is not lost on me that by calling this horrible act something else, it makes it seem less serious an grave than it really is.



I totally agree with your prayers in Jesus' Name, Amen and Amen.   

This the rape that occurs in prisons and in Jesus' Name, this shall not go any further to harm our males or females.    Dear Lord, stop it before it starts, place bravery and your boldness in the hearts of those who know of the plans and let them speak up and against it and report these abusers and their plans to halt their actions, in Jesus' Mighty Name, Amen.  

Protect those who tell...protect those who protest, protect those who over hear, protect those who refuse to take part in this heinous crime, protect those who are targets, give them strength to not only fight their abusers, but to cry out and kick and injure those who seek to harm them.    Father bring an utter end to this and let it not expand it's boundaries.   And to you is all honour and power and glory, in Jesus' Name, Amen.  

I speak death to *this spirit *in Jesus' Name, Amen.


----------



## Shimmie

MrsHaseeb said:


> The homosexual spirit is taking over our young men in mass.. This is really horrible. I agree with you in prayer and will be praying for our youth as well. In Jesus name.



In Jesus' Name this homosexual spirit shall NOT take over en masse nor other...  and all glory is unto God for His divine intervention... 

We have the power with our words to not give life to this, but to bring it to an utter end.    Amen.


----------

