# MY PASTOR SAYS TYE TRIBBETT IS THE DEVIL'S CHILD



## taytay86 (Jul 2, 2008)

So I'm at a BBQ with my chuch family and the topic of music comes up. We were discussing a recent Fred Hammond concert when my pastor brought up the fact that Tye Tribbett's concert sold out 4 months before he even arrived to Canada. When I first saw him on BET I thought "Who the hell is this guy jumping around on the stage like that?!" But I started listening to his music and it's really firey and exciting. My pastor said we have to becareful of the music we listen to and Tye Tribbett's music doesn't glorify God and how he is the devil's child based on his looks and his music. He then went on with the "last days" speech. I was in disagreement, but didn't argue much. What do you all think? Is it wrong to listen to gospel music with an R&B/Hip Hop vibe? This goes back to my earlier post on gospel celebrities. 

The question is, if their music is anointing regardless of other factors, do you still listen to it?


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## PaperClip (Jul 2, 2008)

taytay86 said:


> The question is, if their music is anointing regardless of other factors, do you still listen to it?


 
What was your post on gospel celebrities?

Per your question, what other factors do you have in mind? Either the music is anointed BY THE LORD or it's not....

The devil can "anoint" music, too.... (not saying that Tribbett is anointed by the devil). It was the devil's job in Heaven before he got kicked to the proverbial earthly curb because of his PRIDE and self-absorbed attitude.

The Bible is STILL true: pride goeth before a fall! Wow....

As far as how somebody looks, I don't talk about people's looks like that 'cause for some reason I got it in my head that if I talk about somebody, my babies are gonna come out looking like that so I get that off of me real quick!

As far as dress and all that, again, tradition is something else, ain't it! Every generation has fads and whatnot. Some of these "judgements" about dress codes is very subjective. And at the end of the day: if a person is tuned into the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit will check you if your clothing choice isn't wise. And if a person is slightly hard of hearing, the Holy Spirit can use another person to GENTLY...IN LOVE...speak the TRUTH IN LOVE.


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## taytay86 (Jul 2, 2008)

What was your post on gospel celebrities?

Search for recent posters under my name 
Per your question, what other factors do you have in mind? Either the music is anointed BY THE LORD or it's not....

Other factors include whether the singer was a homosexual, whether the music sounds a lot like "the world" etc.

The devil can "anoint" music, too.... (not saying that Tribbett is anointed by the devil). It was the devil's job in Heaven before he got kicked to the proverbial earthly curb because of his PRIDE and self-absorbed attitude.

My Pastor said this too, and I believe it - he uses this as his arguement that some of these artists are anointed by the devil and how in the last days many will be deceived. But I mean damn, is this just an old fashion man talking or is there some truth to it?

The Bible is STILL true: pride goeth before a fall! Wow....

As far as how somebody looks, I don't talk about people's looks like that 'cause for some reason I got it in my head that if I talk about somebody, my babies are gonna come out looking like that so I get that off of me real quick!

As far as dress and all that, again, tradition is something else, ain't it! Every generation has fads and whatnot. Some of these "judgements" about dress codes is very subjective. And at the end of the day: if a person is tuned into the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit will check you if your clothing choice isn't wise. And if a person is slightly hard of hearing, the Holy Spirit can use another person to GENTLY...IN LOVE...speak the TRUTH IN LOVE.


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## Ramya (Jul 2, 2008)

*sigh* I've read a lot of material about why Christians should and should not listen to music with a "secular" feel to it. But what I had to understand was that secular doesn't mean sinful all the time.

I've listened to a few of Tye Tribett's songs and Victory was one of my favorite songs for a long time and I can't say whether or not he is being used by God or by the Devil but I can say that his song was uplifting and put a smile on my face. Like I was ready for battle with the enemy as soon as the song was over . I think God can use people no matter what they're style is or where they are in their walk. As a Christian I have a tiny issue with Mr. Tribbett and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed this about him but that's another thread. Nah I'ma be real and come out and ask. I don't know anything about him but for some reason I think he has a perverse spirit on him. Is he/was he a homosexual or addicted to pornography? I can't shake the feeling about him... erplexed

My point is that styles are constantly changing and I really don't think that God ever meant for there to only be one "style" of music that is glorifying to Him. I listen to contemporary artists, artists with an R&B feel and some Christian rap outside of traditional gospel. How can you effectively win people out of the world if you can't relate to anything wordly yourself? I think that's the problem a lot of people have with giving their lives to Christ. It's as if everything ends--personal style, taste in music and all fun goes out the window...


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## PaperClip (Jul 2, 2008)

taytay86 said:


> What was your post on gospel celebrities?
> 
> Search for recent posters under my name
> Per your question, what other factors do you have in mind? Either the music is anointed BY THE LORD or it's not....
> ...


 
My answers in blue....


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## Pat Mahurr (Jul 2, 2008)

I've never heard his music, so I can't speak to that point.  I can only offer a  at all the curse words in this thread.


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## song_of_serenity (Jul 2, 2008)

Oh Lord, I knew it had to be that dread man. I didn't even know him by name but once you started talking about him.
Personally, my spirit doesn't receive him. 
~*Janelle~*


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## momi (Jul 2, 2008)

I felt the same way until my husband shared some videos of him on youtube that totally changed my opinion of him.  Most of his songs were preceeded by ministry with the same theme "God demands holiness".


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## PaperClip (Jul 2, 2008)

He seems sincere to me. My only criticism would be that it seems that his approach is "fad-ish".... like there's a bit of a leaning on the world in terms of presentation. But I am critical of much of this commercialized gospel music anyway.... It's as if the world has a jump on gospel music. It's like gospel picks up the fad after the world drops it.... when it should be the other way around.

And don't even get me started on the sampling in gospel music....Even the most clever sample of a secular song made into a gospel song... still...something doesn't seem all quite right to me.


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## ajoyfuljoy (Jul 2, 2008)

I love Tye Tribbett!

I think a lot of people don't understand him because of his contemporary looks and unique musical style. He doesn't sample like a lot of artists (doesn't take a secular song and make it his own). His sound is really his own and it's great! IMO he is head and shoulders above most contemporary Gospel/Christian artists.

He is actually very much against Christians listening to "secular" music (he calls it dead music) and he talks about it a lot. Actually not that many of his songs have a heavy R&B vibe. I just think a lot of people think that b/c those are the songs of his that get heavy radio play. I actually put him in the same category as Israel (worship), Tye's still is just different than Israels -- they both have their own sound.

But I must say that his songs are really powerful and his new album is especially great with a LOT of worship songs. 

Actually, all his albums have lots of worship songs on them. Once you get past the radio cuts that most stations play over and over you might be surprised! His music is really powerful. Have you ever heard his song "Everything to Me" ?


http://youtube.com/watch?v=c3X6qCogleU&feature=related

He is really misunderstood IMO. And I really believe his music is really for THIS generation, not the old folks 

Have you ever been to one of his concerts? I've been to two. He takes a long time out in the middle of his set to just preach to the kids. He ends up having them come to the altar and confess their sins to the Lord (I've been to Southern Gospel/down home Color Purple churchy concerts and that NEVER happens at most of them). 

At his last concert, I ended up having to leave early b/c he started preaching and I had to go to work in the morning 

I was convicted and I had a good time. Plus you've got to admire a guy who travels with his brother (a band member) and wife (a background singer).

Young people really look up to him and you can tell in person that he feel passionately about his ministry. He is a great example of a Christian family man who loves God. I know people who have left his concerts convicted and determined to change their lives.

I know people who have hung out with him and they say that he is one of the most chill, genuine people/Christians that you would want to meet.

At this last concert (it was at a church), he ran into the crowd while he was ministering and a lot of the young people started taking pictures of him with their camera phones. 

He gently rebuked them and said that they should respect the sanctuary b/c it is the Lord's house and not his (Tye's house). He told them all that he would take pictures with whoever wanted to after the service and asked them to respect God's sanctuary. And he really did stay afterwards (as he does a lot) to take pictures with whoever wanted to.

His music is really live, energetic and exciting. He gives one of the best live gospel performances I've ever seen.


Please don't judge a book by its cover (or only the songs that get heavy radio play). Get the CD and decide for yourselves.


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## NGraceO (Jul 2, 2008)

WOOOOwww...I say a yes to your question. I think anyone can glorify God. And Tye Tribbett, the devil's child??? It funny how people are so quick to throw stones...sad. I don't know what kind of experience your pastor has had with Tye Tribbett, but I was blessed to attend a concert at a youth conference a few weeks ago and that man has the true anointing of God...And I know anointing when i see it. It hurts to see people who dont even try to understand and then bash what the younger generation is trying to do. Tye worships how he knows how, just like the older generation does the same. I say worship is worship And God understands that. I don't think its for us to judge...And no offense was meant to your pastor if it sounds that way. woooahhhh....that got me a lil fired up, but im good now lol. God Bless!


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## NGraceO (Jul 2, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I love Tye Tribbett!
> 
> I think a lot of people don't understand him because of his contemporary looks and unique musical style. He doesn't sample like a lot of artists (doesn't take a secular song and make it his own). His sound is really his own and it's great! IMO he is head and shoulders above most contemporary Gospel/Christian artists.
> 
> ...


 
Amen...I couldn't have said it better myself!


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## ajoyfuljoy (Jul 2, 2008)

Nnelove said:


> Amen...I couldn't have said it better myself!


 
Thank you. I don't want people to be turned off to his music b/c of church gossip stuff. You've seen him for yourself same as me. I'm glad you understand


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## Evolving78 (Jul 3, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I love Tye Tribbett!
> 
> I think a lot of people don't understand him because of his contemporary looks and unique musical style. He doesn't sample like a lot of artists (doesn't take a secular song and make it his own). His sound is really his own and it's great! IMO he is head and shoulders above most contemporary Gospel/Christian artists.
> 
> ...



ITA!  That is why people need to have discerment for themselves because pastors may not have all or the correct answers to things.


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## Joyful1 (Jul 3, 2008)

Pat Mahurr said:


> I've never heard his music, so I can't speak to that point. *I can only offer a  at all the curse words in this thread.*


 
LOL. I was thinking that too. 

And now we continue with our regularly scheduled discussion...


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## firecracker (Jul 3, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> He seems sincere to me. My only criticism would be that it seems that his approach is "fad-ish".... *like there's a bit of a leaning on the world in terms of presentation. But I am critical of much of this commercialized gospel music anyway....* *It's as if the world has a jump on gospel music. It's like gospel picks up the fad after the world drops it.... when it should be the other way around.*
> 
> And don't even get me started on the sampling in gospel music....*Even the most clever sample of a secular song made into a gospel song... still...something doesn't seem all quite right to me*.


ITA with the bold.  I like ole skool gospel so my thoughts maybe biased.


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## Duchesse (Jul 3, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I love Tye Tribbett!
> *
> I think a lot of people don't understand him because of his contemporary looks and unique musical style. He doesn't sample like a lot of artists (doesn't take a secular song and make it his own). His sound is really his own and it's great! IMO he is head and shoulders above most contemporary Gospel/Christian artists.*
> 
> ...



I agree with you all the way! Unfortunately, there often seems to be a generational/"urban styled" bias when it comes to certain gospel artists. I enjoy Tye Tribbett and think his music has powerful messages. I love that he has a young, funky vibe about him.  His music appeals to the youth culture that we have now, and I think there is a new generation of young "urban" Christians who will want to listen to his music and get the message because of his style and delivery.


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## taytay86 (Jul 3, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I love Tye Tribbett!
> 
> I think a lot of people don't understand him because of his contemporary looks and unique musical style. He doesn't sample like a lot of artists (doesn't take a secular song and make it his own). His sound is really his own and it's great! IMO he is head and shoulders above most contemporary Gospel/Christian artists.
> 
> ...


 
Girl AMEN - thanks for your reply. I don't know why my pastor has the views he has, he even went on to say that the church is too quick to accept things (i.e. urban gospel etc.) which is true in some cases, but not all. I just started listening to Tye and only have a few of his songs on my ipod and I love him. I love that song "I want it all back" it gets me all fired up, just like my girl Amerikan said - I feel ready to fight! I don't think that's a bad thing. 

Someone told me once that not everyone who goes/is in heaven is all calm and tranquel, they have some firey and passionate people as well! 
So don't think you have to be like Mother T to get into heaven  I also agree that we should all have discernment for ourselves and not jump on everything the pastors says. We need to think and discern for ourselves. If Tye's spirit doesn't take you, then oh well. Don't listen to him. Personally his music makes me feel passion for God.


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## metamorfhosis (Jul 3, 2008)

This reminds me of an overnight trip I took with my cousin. She started playing her cds and I thought they were some kind of new "secular" groups. I listened closer and a few of the songs mentioned GOD or the LORD. One group sounded just like Jodeci and their song _ Freek n You_; I thought they were going to sing something like _Feeling You_. 

I have to be honest. I didn't like it at all. We might as well had been listening to "secular" music. 

A couple of months ago, I was on the way to church and heard a Kirk Franklin song that he "sampled" from a secular group. I couldn't think of the name of the group but I think they were a white group. Well, I was listening to the song and didn't hear the praise because all I could hear was the "sample". 

The gospel music industry has turned "secular" in my eyes. People buy it and some of it has more beats than Lil' Wayne. But that's their choice. 

Sometimes I hear people singing gospel solos perhaps in a choir who eh-can't sing well. But some of them are probably so genuine. They try to praise and worship the LORD despite not being gifted in song. GOD only knows what music is done for HIS glory and which is strictly for the dollar. 

Sadly, I sense a spirit of homosexuality on Tye and Donnie. I hope I am wrong and they are just eh-"effeminate".


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## Ramya (Jul 4, 2008)

metamorfhosis said:


> This reminds me of an overnight trip I took with my cousin. She started playing her cds and I thought they were some kind of new "secular" groups. I listened closer and a few of the songs mentioned GOD or the LORD. One group sounded just like Jodeci and their song _Freek n You_; I thought they were going to sing something like _Feeling You_.
> 
> I have to be honest. I didn't like it at all. We might as well had been listening to "secular" music.
> 
> ...


 
I can't shake that feeling either but I think he struggles with homosexuality or was addicted to porn at some point.


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## pearlygurl (Jul 4, 2008)

Threads like this really sadden me at times. I love Tye Tribbett and his ministry. Like others have said I think that he is *VERY* misunderstood because of how he looks. People need to start looking at the heart instead of the outer appearence. These clips will give you and idea of what he is about...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3tPJQur-CPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNpcencCpPc&feature=related


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## metamorfhosis (Jul 4, 2008)

pearlygurl said:


> Threads like this really sadden me at times. I love Tye Tribbett and his ministry. Like others have said I think that he is *VERY* misunderstood because of how he looks. People need to start looking at the heart instead of the outer appearence. These clips will give you and idea of what he is about...
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3tPJQur-CPY
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNpcencCpPc&feature=related


 
I am going to try to watch the videos. I don't know much about Tye, just what I have observed a couple of times. 

Hear me well..........I am not necessarily talking about Tye. This could apply to your preacher, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, etc. Someone told me that when we are judged by JESUS, we aren't going to be able to say that we were "mislead" by a ministry. We will be accountable for OUR actions. 

Just a thought. Ok........


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## Nice & Wavy (Jul 4, 2008)

Pat Mahurr said:


> I've never heard his music, so I can't speak to that point. I can only offer a  at all the curse words in this thread.


 
...that's what I was thinking.


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## plainj (Jul 4, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I love Tye Tribbett!
> 
> I think a lot of people don't understand him because of his contemporary looks and unique musical style. He doesn't sample like a lot of artists (doesn't take a secular song and make it his own). His sound is really his own and it's great! IMO he is head and shoulders above most contemporary Gospel/Christian artists.
> 
> ...


I've never seen him in concert but I feel the same way you do about Tye Tribbett. All I know is his music moves me and has gotten me through some tough times especially in the absolute very beginning of my walk.


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## metamorfhosis (Jul 4, 2008)

pearlygurl said:


> I love Tye Tribbett and his ministry.  These clips will give you and idea of what he is about...
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3tPJQur-CPY


 
pearlygurl-

I watched both videos. I found the first video, _Tye Tribbett Preaching on TBN Part 2,_ eh-interesting particularly at 3 min 15 sec to 3 min 30 sec. 

I'll say this..........none of us are without sin--perfect.


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## Ramya (Jul 4, 2008)

metamorfhosis said:


> pearlygurl-
> 
> I watched both videos. I found the first video, _Tye Tribbett Preaching on TBN Part 2,_ eh-interesting particularly at 3 min 15 sec to 3 min 30 sec.
> 
> I'll say this..........none of us are without sin--perfect.


 
That answered my question...


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## klb120475 (Jul 5, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> ...that's what I was thinking.


 
You just couldn't resist yourself......


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## jwhitley6 (Jul 5, 2008)

I guess I separate the messenger from the message. I have no problem with Tye.  His music is based on the Word... "Still Have Joy" is a song that inspires me.  I don't plan on attending any of his concerts but I like the music.


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## pearlygurl (Jul 5, 2008)

metamorfhosis said:


> I am going to try to watch the videos. I don't know much about Tye, just what I have observed a couple of times.
> 
> Hear me well..........I am not necessarily talking about Tye. This could apply to your preacher, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, etc. Someone told me that when we are judged by JESUS, we aren't going to be able to say that we were "mislead" by a ministry. We will be accountable for OUR actions.
> 
> Just a thought. Ok........


 

ITA...we will be accountable for our actions


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## pearlygurl (Jul 5, 2008)

metamorfhosis said:


> I'll say this..........none of us are without sin--perfect.


 

I agree with this as well...none of us


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## ajoyfuljoy (Jul 7, 2008)

taytay86 said:


> Girl AMEN - thanks for your reply. I don't know why my pastor has the views he has, he even went on to say that the church is too quick to accept things (i.e. urban gospel etc.) which is true in some cases, but not all. I just started listening to Tye and only have a few of his songs on my ipod and I love him. I love that song "I want it all back" it gets me all fired up, just like my girl Amerikan said - I feel ready to fight! I don't think that's a bad thing.
> 
> Someone told me once that not everyone who goes/is in heaven is all calm and tranquel, they have some firey and passionate people as well!
> So don't think you have to be like Mother T to get into heaven  I also agree that we should all have discernment for ourselves and not jump on everything the pastors says. We need to think and discern for ourselves. If Tye's spirit doesn't take you, then oh well. Don't listen to him. Personally his music makes me feel passion for God.


 
Your pastor probably means well. But I think a lot of people (may or may not be your pastor, please don't take offense) may disapprove of what they don't understand.

I am glad that you will discern whether or not you like him yourself and not base it on what other people say. That really is what's most important.

Really though, check out the new album too. I think you will really like it


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## LivingDoll (Jul 7, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I love Tye Tribbett!
> 
> I think a lot of people don't understand him because of his contemporary looks and unique musical style. He doesn't sample like a lot of artists (doesn't take a secular song and make it his own). His sound is really his own and it's great! IMO he is head and shoulders above most contemporary Gospel/Christian artists.
> 
> ...


 
this is so eloquently stated. i agree with everything u said. i enjoy tye tribbett's music and "Life" is one of my fav gospel CD's.

the point for me is this....old school gospel isn't gonna save our children, a new generation. they need to undertand that a saved life doesn't mean that life is no longer fun and enjoyable.


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 7, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> Your pastor probably means well. But I think a lot of people (may or may not be your pastor, please don't take offense) may disapprove of what they don't understand.
> 
> I am glad that you will discern whether or not you like him yourself and not base it on what other people say. That really is what's most important.
> 
> Really though, check out the new album too. I think you will really like it


Whew, I had to read the thread before I responded.
LOVE TYE TRIBBETT!
(I am soon to be 35!)
His new album is called "stand out". 
Keep yourself holy,
Be not conformed to this world,
BE TRANSFORMED,
Renew your soul.
Don't be hot or cold.
I really like him and if I can't be fired up for God, then I need to sit down.  My pastor puts it like this, if I was out in the world doing my best to be the best party animal I could be, when can't I put that same fire and energy into being Godly and Holy?
Everybody isn't the same, I have NEVER heard or seen anything about Tye Tribbett suggesting that he was or had been gay, but haven't we all BEEN something in our lives?  THANK GOD for forgiveness.  All sins are just that SINS! Everybody has a past.
just my thoughts. .02


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 7, 2008)

daephae said:


> this is so eloquently stated. i agree with everything u said. i enjoy tye tribbett's music and "Life" is one of my fav gospel CD's.
> 
> the point for me is this....old school gospel isn't gonna save our children, a new generation. they need to undertand that a saved life doesn't mean that life is no longer fun and enjoyable.


Girl we posted at the same time.
I am LOVING his new CD!
Better to hear my kids saying "I got the V-I-C-T-O-R-Y" than talking about sk**&


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## LivingDoll (Jul 7, 2008)

crlsweetie912 said:


> Girl we posted at the same time.
> I am LOVING his new CD!
> Better to hear my kids saying "I got the V-I-C-T-O-R-Y" than talking about sk**&


 

Right? My daughter loves him too. I have to get his new CD.


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 7, 2008)

daephae said:


> Right? My daughter loves him too. I have to get his new CD.


Girl, I didn't even know it was out.  I was sleeping on it.  I got it off of Itunes and we have been jamming to it every since!
My favorite is "Hold On" but the title cut is the BOMB too!


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## EbonyEyes (Jul 7, 2008)

I have Tye Tribbett's "Victory" album and it has blessed me so much.  But though I enjoy his music, I really like listening to him preach the Word of God.

As he said in his TBN interview, Heaven and Earth and beats (music styles) will pass away, but the Word of God shall stand.  He also mentions in his interview that he believes his specific calling is to the young people.  So it makes sense to me that his music will have a style that will appeal more to the younger generation.

Tye has made very strong statements regarding the negative effect secular music can have on young people.  He points out how important it is to watch what we let into our spirits.

He actually takes a stand against the sin of homosexuality.  However, he believes that a man is not a homosexual but a man with the spirit of homosexuality.  He also believes that God can deliver any man or woman from homosexual behavior.  I don't know the details of Tye's personal life so I don't know if homosexuality is something that he ever struggled with.  But my personal opinion is that that he loves God with his whole heart, strives to remain holy, and is working to fulfill the high calling on his life.

Tye is indeed different but thank God for uniqueness!  Like him, I'm a radical praiser.  And the looks of disgust I've gotten from members at my church because of my praise could have been enough to sit me down and shut me up permanently if I didn't remember that it was GOD that saved my soul, it is GOD that loves me unconditionally, and it is GOD that is worthy of all of my praise.  Like Jeremiah, I had to stop looking at people's faces and concentrate on God and His goodness.

Another thing I like about Tye is that he speaks very heavily on life and death being in the POWER of the tongue.  So yes, it's good to clap your hands, it's good to dance for the Lord, it's good to lift up your hands, it's good to bow down - All of these things are important parts of praise and worship and I engage in all of these things heavily.  But what I've found really gets my spirit moving is opening my mouth, and SHOUTING praises to the Lord.  One of the things God revealed to me was that I needed to shout more during my praise time.  And if you listen to Tye's sermons, he really emphasizes the importance of shouting unto God.   

Thank you OP for posting this because it lets me know that I need to pray for him and his ministry, that he stay in the perfect will of God no matter what is said about him.  I never realized until now just how many people dislike him.


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## kandake (Jul 7, 2008)

I think your pastor still has an old school mentality.  Some people think that if its not praise and worship or and old hymn then is not "anointed" by God.  I disagree.

Tye's music is reaching the masses.  I know people that have never set foot in a church who have heard his music and others like him who suddenly became to question Christianity and salvation who eventually became saved.

I mean 2nd Samuel Ch 6 talks about praising God with all manner of instruments. 1st Chronicles Ch 13 speaks of David dancing and praising God with all his might and once again with all manner of instruments (i.e cymbals, trumpets, etc.). Psalms 150 says to let everything that have breath praise the Lord.  


I just think that Tye and others like him are praising God the way they know how.  



ETA:  I downloaded his new CD on itunes and I have to say that I love it.  Its a little out there but I still love it nonetheless.


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## PaperClip (Jul 7, 2008)

daephae said:


> this is so eloquently stated. i agree with everything u said. i enjoy tye tribbett's music and "Life" is one of my fav gospel CD's.
> 
> *the point for me is this....old school gospel isn't gonna save our children, a new generation. they need to undertand that a saved life doesn't mean that life is no longer fun and enjoyable.*


 
Whoa!

Well, maybe it should be clear about what is meant by "old school gospel"....

Because some of this "new-fangled" gospel ain't gonna get you to Jesus when there's an emergency....

I like some of my gospel music to bump... but not all of it 24/7/365.... A couple of Tye's songs got a nice beat to it and there's a worship song on one of his earlier records that's kinda nice.... I'll have to browse for the name....

I've been saved since I was 20 years old.... And I know that being saved can be fun and it's definitely not boring.... but when it's time to get down to it... what can help usher you into the Holy of Holies.... the list of "gospel" music gets very short. Israel and New Breed is at the top of my list.

Like I said before, I have some criticisms about a lot of today's gospel sound... it's too commercial... using worldly tricks because that's supposedly what "attracts the young people".... that's a cop-out.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is powerful enough and attractive enough on its own.


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## kandake (Jul 7, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> * The Gospel of Jesus Christ is powerful enough and attractive enough on its own*.



ITA, this is definitely true.  But you know this now because you are saved.  Many people don't know anything about the power of GOD.  If a song with a nice "beat" or a catchy tune gets them through the church doors to come to know GOD and his power than I say so be it.

You made another point about music ushering you into the holy of holies.  I agree with your sentiments but I want to share that Tye Tribbett's Victory album played a big part in helping me get through the separation from my husband last year and our subsequent divorce.  I mean Israel played a part too but Tye made me feel strong and undefeated.   

I  also agree that a lot of the stuff we hear is commercial.  But you have to look past all that and find the "ministry" in the music.  Tye Tribbett,  radical and all, definitely ministered to me when I needed it most.

Victory
I Want it All Back
Bless the Lord
Hallelujah to Your Name
Who Else but God
No Other Choice
Still Have Joy
Everything will be Alright

Mostly all of that CD spoke to me.  I felt like every song helped me through my struggle. 

Just my thoughts.


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## PaperClip (Jul 7, 2008)

**kandi** said:


> ITA, this is definitely true. *But you know this now because you are saved.* Many people don't know anything about the power of GOD. If a song with a nice "beat" or a catchy tune gets them through the church doors to come to know GOD and his power than I say so be it.
> 
> Nah... I been in church my whole life... grew up in the grand ole/d COGIC.... My daddy played drums and my mama sang in the choir. I'm used to my gospel having some bump in it.
> 
> ...


 
My responses in blue. I appreciate your response and the dialogue here.


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## taytay86 (Jul 8, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> Your pastor probably means well. But I think a lot of people (may or may not be your pastor, please don't take offense) may disapprove of what they don't understand.
> 
> I am glad that you will discern whether or not you like him yourself and not base it on what other people say. That really is what's most important.
> 
> Really though, check out the new album too. I think you will really like it


 

I totally understand, no offence taken. Typical "elders" will more than likely never accept the music our generation listens to.


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## taytay86 (Jul 8, 2008)

daephae said:


> this is so eloquently stated. i agree with everything u said. i enjoy tye tribbett's music and "Life" is one of my fav gospel CD's.
> 
> the point for me is this....*old school gospel isn't gonna save our children*, a new generation. they need to undertand that a saved life doesn't mean that life is no longer fun and enjoyable.


 
THANK YOU!!!!


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## song_of_serenity (Jul 8, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> My responses in blue. I appreciate your response and the dialogue here.


Amen and Amen. People talking about they need to change it up to bring in the young folks.
CHANGE WHAT UP? Hello?! Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. I don't serve a God that needs to switch up and follow the trends of THIS world to draw people. PLEASE. Mimicing the world to lure young folks in and hope that the "word" keeps em? Are you serious? THE WORD is life. No choir with a fast beat that reminds them of the latest club song is gonna do it. No pastor jumping around like he is in a rave is gonna do it.

THE HOLY SPIRIT brings conviction. GOD WILL NEVER CHANGE. It's so sad that people don't realize the works of the enemy right in their faces. By saying the ways of old won't work in today's generation is like a slap in the face to me because it's like saying "Well, God. Yeah, I know you got all power in your hand. And that the world is yours and the fullness there of. But um. Sorry, ain't working now. Young kids need something different. What worked then aint working now. Sorry God."

There is NOTHING wrong with upbeat praise music and music with TRUE anointing. But there is hardly anything like the good old gospel songs that had the power and conviction that spoke of God and his mercy more than the mention of simply "He" and the beat to have people dance like it's the latest radio jam. The word, the word is what convicts. And yeah, people come to church and get convicted for reasons where they may not have come in for. But to say we NEED to change it up for the young people? Come on. That's an insult to me as a young person and a bigger one to God.
~*Janelle~*


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## ajoyfuljoy (Jul 9, 2008)

daephae said:


> this is so eloquently stated. i agree with everything u said. i enjoy tye tribbett's music and "Life" is one of my fav gospel CD's.





daephae said:


> the point for me is this....old school gospel isn't gonna save our children, a new generation. they need to undertand that a saved life doesn't mean that life is no longer fun and enjoyable.


 
yeah, music can be fun too with a serious message, they need to know that.




crlsweetie912 said:


> Whew, I had to read the thread before I responded.





crlsweetie912 said:


> LOVE TYE TRIBBETT!
> (I am soon to be 35!)
> His new album is called "stand out".
> Keep yourself holy,
> ...


 
His music also helps me feel fired up. it's exciting but really so much more than that!




EbonyEyes said:


> I have Tye Tribbett's "Victory" album and it has blessed me so much. But though I enjoy his music, I really like listening to him preach the Word of God.





EbonyEyes said:


> As he said in his TBN interview, Heaven and Earth and beats (music styles) will pass away, but the Word of God shall stand. He also mentions in his interview that he believes his specific calling is to the young people. So it makes sense to me that his music will have a style that will appeal more to the younger generation.
> 
> Thank you OP for posting this because it lets me know that I need to pray for him and his ministry, that he stay in the perfect will of God no matter what is said about him. I never realized until now just how many people dislike him.


 
I also didn't realize so many disagreed. Many Christians sometimes have to agree to disagree. But I have seen for my own eyes people changed by his music so I'm confident with my viewpoint on the whole thing. 




**kandi** said:


> I think your pastor still has an old school mentality. Some people think that if its not praise and worship or and old hymn then is not "anointed" by God. I disagree.





**kandi** said:


> Tye's music is reaching the masses. I know people that have never set foot in a church who have heard his music and others like him who suddenly became to question Christianity and salvation who eventually became saved.
> 
> I mean 2nd Samuel Ch 6 talks about praising God with all manner of instruments. 1st Chronicles Ch 13 speaks of David dancing and praising God with all his might and once again with all manner of instruments (i.e cymbals, trumpets, etc.). Psalms 150 says to let everything that have breath praise the Lord.
> 
> ...


 
His music is different. But I love it. Chasing After You is my favorite song off the new album, it almost brings tears to my eyes and really quiets my spirit.




FoxyScholar said:


> Whoa!





FoxyScholar said:


> Well, maybe it should be clear about what is meant by "old school gospel"....
> 
> Because some of this "new-fangled" gospel ain't gonna get you to Jesus when there's an emergency....
> 
> The Gospel of Jesus Christ is powerful enough and attractive enough on its own.


 
We won't always agree on the method. But if all Christians can evangelize the way God puts in their heart, we will reach tons of people! It's all about reaching the people and ministering to them.

I respect your opinion. I highly suggest listening to the new album. I've picked up worship songs on all of his albums with the last one having a lot on their. Try it, you might be surprised! 




**kandi** said:


> ITA, this is definitely true. But you know this now because you are saved. Many people don't know anything about the power of GOD. If a song with a nice "beat" or a catchy tune gets them through the church doors to come to know GOD and his power than I say so be it.





**kandi** said:


> You made another point about music ushering you into the holy of holies. I agree with your sentiments but I want to share that Tye Tribbett's Victory album played a big part in helping me get through the separation from my husband last year and our subsequent divorce. I mean Israel played a part too but Tye made me feel strong and undefeated.
> 
> I also agree that a lot of the stuff we hear is commercial. But you have to look past all that and find the "ministry" in the music. Tye Tribbett, radical and all, definitely ministered to me when I needed it most.
> 
> ...


 
His music also helped me to be strong and feel determined in my heart. I feel there is a certain strength to his music. 





song_of_serenity said:


> Amen and Amen. People talking about they need to change it up to bring in the young folks.





song_of_serenity said:


> CHANGE WHAT UP? Hello?! Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. I don't serve a God that needs to switch up and follow the trends of THIS world to draw people. PLEASE. Mimicing the world to lure young folks in and hope that the "word" keeps em? Are you serious? THE WORD is life. No choir with a fast beat that reminds them of the latest club song is gonna do it. No pastor jumping around like he is in a rave is gonna do it...The word, the word is what convicts. And yeah, people come to church and get convicted for reasons where they may not have come in for. But to say we NEED to change it up for the young people? Come on. That's an insult to me as a young person and a bigger one to God.
> ~*Janelle~*


 
Jesus Christ is the same. But the reality is that every generation has it's own sound. 

The hymns of yesteryear were condemned when they first came out. The artist who started Gospel music were condemned when they first came out. People today condemn contemporary gospel music, yet "their" music sounds like the secular music that was out during that time. 

That's what makes me upset sometimes and I think people don't understand that. I go to older churches that are very set in their ways and a lot of the music sounds like blues music. That would have been condemned in the past, but now it is accepted as the good old way.

Tye simply has a sound for this generation. And a lot of people may not agree with it b/c it's probably not for them to enjoy or really meant for them.

Bottom line, as Christians we should agree to disagree on some things and realize that everything reaches someone! Whether old school or new school music, someone is blessed by it!


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## EbonyEyes (Jul 10, 2008)

I asked God to give Tye Tribbett the grace and the Holy Ghost strength to keep doing what sayeth the Lord despite what others say about him.  For it's not by Tye's might nor by Tye's power, but it's by God's Spirit that Tye is able to help build up God's kingdom and save souls for Christ.  I also fervently prayed to God that He place more anointing on Tye's ministry than ever before.  It wasn't until an hour later when I was driving in my car that it hit me that Tye’s ministry is called "Greater Anointing"!  Wow!  God is so good!



ajoyfuljoy said:


> Jesus Christ is the same. But the reality is that every generation has it's own sound.
> 
> The hymns of yesteryear were condemned when they first came out. The artist who started Gospel music were condemned when they first came out. People today condemn contemporary gospel music, yet "their" music sounds like the secular music that was out during that time.
> 
> ...



Check this – On Bishop G.E. Patterson’s “Singing the Old Time Way - Vol. 2” album (which I own and have played out!), there is a song called “I Know The Lord Will Make A Way (Yes He Will)”.   For me, the song had a strong blues feel to it.  I did some research on this song and found out that this song is generally classified under a genre called Gospel Blues.  Now isn’t it interesting that a song considered “old-time” is rooted in a musical form that was called “sin music” or “devil’s music”?

You expressed in this post what I've been prayerfully reflecting on these past couple days.  I did an in-depth study on the history of black music when I was in college and this post brought back to memory my research on Thomas Dorsey.  Thomas Dorsey is called by many the “Father of Gospel Music”.  It is said that he coined this new form of praise music in the 1930s.  He was shunned by many a Christian because of this new style.  It was called "devil's music" by them and rejected because he blended sacred hymns with the rhythmic flavor of “secular” blues and jazz.

Even some of the Negro spirituals that are near and dear to the hearts of seasoned saints had rhythms that were inspired at some level by the slaves’ African music roots.  The slaves did not come to America as Christians.  They had their own religious/spiritual rituals.  Many of them did accept the Christian faith (thank the Lord!) but their music style from their homelands was still in their hearts.

I thank God that He is a *creative* God who uses many methods to bring people to Him.  He is not limited to a box that we as Christians sometimes try to put Him in.  When He calls people to a ministry, He gives them the same Spirit, but He does not give them the same exact gifts.  The gifts He gives to His children are unique and He guides His children as He sees fit, not as how anyone else sees fit.

There are some old school folks in my church that believe that you should not be clapping your hands loudly, shouting, or dancing.  You should be quiet all of the time.  In fact, a few of them have a belief that the piano should be the only instrument allowed in the church.

Now me, I’m a shouter, a clapper, and a dancer.  But I’m also one who will bow down in God’s presence with a spirit of quiet as the Lord leads me.  I love traditional hymns and I also love contemporary praise songs.  As long as the message is clear as a cloudless day – that Jesus is Lord and that *all* power belongs to God Almighty, then I’m with it.  When I led praise and worship on youth Sundays, I led more contemporary songs but I would incorporate some great traditional songs.  I may be young (23 going on 24), but I will sing “Wade in the Water” down-home, a capella style as the Spirit moves.

God gives lyrics and melody to people today just like He did yesterday.  There are anointed songs of today that are *just as powerful* as anointed songs of yesterday.  

God is such an awesome God and it’s wonderful to reflect on how He used people back in the day with certain styles to proclaim the Word of God and to see with my own eyes how He is using people of today with their own styles to do the exact same thing – Proclaim the Word of God.


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## BeautifulFlower (Jul 10, 2008)

I dont care too much for people's *religious* point of views of how you are supposed to worship God. Let Tye do his thing. God is blessing him and his heart appears sincere. As the bible says, man looks on the outside *but GOD* (I love that) looks at the heart.


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## PaperClip (Jul 10, 2008)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I dont care too much for people's *religious* point of views of how you are supposed to worship God. Let Tye do his thing. God is blessing him and his heart appears sincere. As the bible says, man looks on the outside *but GOD* (I love that) looks at the heart.


 
Let's be clear. This is not about a religious point of view about how one is supposed to worship God. Starting from the OP's post, I took this conversation to be more from the GOSPEL MUSIC perspective, not about one's individual choices in worship. However, let's explore that:

Once a person/musical artist PUBLISHES their music and makes it available for people to listen to/purchase, doesn't that also open up their "approach" to discussion/conversation/criticism, at least from a musical perspective? Doesn't it make sense to consider that that what they put on a CD they also do in private? Hmmmm.... that opens up a HUGE can of worms....

I noted very clearly upthread my criticisms about today's commercialized gospel music.... What I said was that there's something PROFOUNDLY DISTURBING when the world does gospel better than some self-identified gospel artists...excuse me... gospel ENTERTAINERS?


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## PaperClip (Jul 11, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> We won't always agree on the method. But if all Christians can evangelize the way God puts in their heart, we will reach tons of people! It's all about reaching the people and ministering to them.
> 
> 
> I respect your opinion. I highly suggest listening to the new album. I've picked up worship songs on all of his albums with the last one having a lot on their. Try it, you might be surprised!


 
Here's my response to one of my church family about this topic and she was saying something similar to what you said:

Short answer: the gospel of Jesus Christ does not need to be "tricked up" to attract the world. The gospel is strong and powerful enough to stand on its own.

Longer answer: From a musical/artistic perspective, I can certainly understand how musicians, singers, etc., vibe from "good music", a well-put together, well-produced song, lyric, etc.

Like I said, some of the gospel songs that have been sampled, or "redeemed", as you cleverly say, are quite interesting, intriguing. For example, the way Karen and Kierra Sheard "redeemed"  Jill Scott's "You Love Me". Nice twist. However, reading up on the history/origin of that song, it would be known that Jill INITIALLY wrote that song in honor of (her) God (hopefully she means the Lord Jesus Christ).

That's my point about this "redemption" of songs. If a musician wants to "redeem" a song (and do it in a CLEVER) way because they vibe and thrive off of the artistic aspect, cool beans! But to justify such usage because it is a way to "attract" the world.... I just sincerely believe there's something not right (almost like wizardly) about that.

Let's explore the usage of "Amazing Grace" as an example of what I think may be different parts of the conversation: content versus format. The CONTENT of Amazing Grace is what it is. The FORMAT of how the song is expressed is where I think the content gets diminished. So one may want to "trick up" Amazing Grace... sure, for creativity, taking creative risks... I think that's fine. But once the creativity diminishes or becomes bigger than the content/message, I just sincerely believe there's something not right about that.

It's similar to what we see in literature, for example. Shakespeare. The movie Romeo and Juliet. There are SEVERAL versions/interpretations of this play out there. Some attempt to portray it EXACTLY like it would have taken place during Shakespeare's time. Others attempt to put a more "contemporary" spin on it, like the movie version with Leonardo DiCaprio. Some of us may even have preferences on which version we like/gravitate to. But we both should agree that the INTEGRITY or the SPIRIT of the work should be of utmost importance.

The Bible says "30The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise." (Proverbs 11:30 KJV). The Message version of this scripture says "A good life is a fruit-bearing tree; a violent life destroys souls." (I'm sorta not sure how they got that exactly, but I'll work with it!)

The Bible also says not to add or take away from the Word (Revelation 22:18-19). And when we try to "trick out" the gospel (esp. as a justification to win souls), that's some dangerous space to be in....


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## kandake (Jul 11, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> Bottom line, as Christians we should agree to disagree on some things and realize that *everything reaches someone!* Whether old school or new school music, *someone is blessed by it!*



I agree with the sentiments expressed here.  Especially the bolded.


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## Butterfly08 (Jul 12, 2008)

**kandi** said:


> I agree with the sentiments expressed here. Especially the bolded.


 
Right.  And who determines whether a particular style/genre of music is anointed or not? erplexed


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## PaperClip (Jul 12, 2008)

jamila75 said:


> Right.  And who determines whether a particular style/genre of music is anointed or not? erplexed


 
We all do.

1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

The Message version gets a little "gangsta" with it:

"My dear friends, don't believe everything you hear. Carefully weigh and examine what people tell you. Not everyone who talks about God comes from God. There are a lot of lying preachers loose in the world."


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## Ramya (Jul 12, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Whoa!
> 
> Well, maybe it should be clear about what is meant by "old school gospel"....
> 
> ...


 
I love Israel and New Breed!!! When I need to worship that's who I go to also!  Deeper Level is constantly playing around here!

I've been noticing this too. FYI I'm 20 and have been a Christian for almost 2 years and I enjoy a lot of different styles of Christian music. Like I said earlier Tye Tribbett's song 'victory' was one of my favorites. I also enjoy artists like J Moss and Canton Jones for my "non worship"_ clean_ music. However a few days ago, I was listening to a Christian station on XM radio and some of the things that I heard made me think that I was listening to the regular radio station. And that made me really uncomfortable. I felt like the things that they were singing/rapping about were not sinful but weren't Godly, (IMO) so how do they fit into the gospel station?

And then it dawned on me. The problem a lot of Christians are having with artists that have a "secular/wordly" sound is that they don't know where to "put them." Because what is considered gospel music? You see Christians have always stood out even in music. But now a blend is starting to happen. In essence Christian artists are adding wordly influence into seemingly Christian music. To me it seems almost like a compromise with the world. _Why_ are we compromising with the world? erplexed I honestly believe that there are other ways to "win the world" without camoflauging ourselves to blend into the world. It's a fine line that many Christians are stepping over.


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## cocoberry10 (Jul 12, 2008)

I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AGREE WITH YOUR BOLDED! I AM VERY MOVED BY HIS MUSIC!  GOD CAN USE A ROCK TO FULFILL HIS WILL, AND THE DAY WE AS HIS SERVANTS REALIZE THIS, WE CAN REALIZE THAT WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE! AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PERSON, IT'S ABOUT THE LORD. TOO MANY OF US ARE FORGETTING THIS AND THROWING STONES AT OTHER HUMAN BEINGS INSTEAD OF UPLIFITNG THE ONE WHO CREATED US. AND THIS IS THE SADDEST THING OF ALL. IF ANYTING OP, YOUR PASTOR SHOULD BE PRAYING FOR THE MAN HE THINKS IS SUCH A "SINNER." ALTHOUGH THE LAST TIME I CHECKED, WE'VE ALL FALLEN SHORT AT LEAST ONCE (but probably A LOT more than that!)

Here is one of his songs I personally love "Victory"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmePH9NKVFA



Nnelove said:


> *WOOOOwww...I say a yes to your question. I think anyone can glorify God. And Tye Tribbett, the devil's child??? It funny how people are so quick to throw stones...sad. I don't know what kind of experience your pastor has had with Tye Tribbett, but I was blessed to attend a concert at a youth conference a few weeks ago and that man has the true anointing of God..*.And I know anointing when i see it. It hurts to see people who dont even try to understand and then bash what the younger generation is trying to do. Tye worships how he knows how, just like the older generation does the same. I say worship is worship And God understands that. I don't think its for us to judge...And no offense was meant to your pastor if it sounds that way. woooahhhh....that got me a lil fired up, but im good now lol. God Bless!


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## Irresistible (Jul 13, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> I love Tye Tribbett!
> 
> I think a lot of people don't understand him because of his contemporary looks and unique musical style. He doesn't sample like a lot of artists (doesn't take a secular song and make it his own). His sound is really his own and it's great! IMO he is head and shoulders above most contemporary Gospel/Christian artists.
> 
> ...


I dont even know of this person,but I FULLY agree with your post! People are so quick to judge and its not their place to do so!


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## Irresistible (Jul 13, 2008)

cocoberry10 said:


> I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AGREE WITH YOUR BOLDED! I AM VERY MOVED BY HIS MUSIC!  GOD CAN USE A ROCK TO FULFILL HIS WILL, AND THE DAY WE AS HIS SERVANTS REALIZE THIS, WE CAN REALIZE THAT WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE! AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PERSON, IT'S ABOUT THE LORD. TOO MANY OF US ARE FORGETTING THIS AND THROWING STONES AT OTHER HUMAN BEINGS INSTEAD OF UPLIFITNG THE ONE WHO CREATED US. AND THIS IS THE SADDEST THING OF ALL. IF ANYTING OP, YOUR PASTOR SHOULD BE PRAYING FOR THE MAN HE THINKS IS SUCH A "SINNER." ALTHOUGH THE LAST TIME I CHECKED, WE'VE ALL FALLEN SHORT AT LEAST ONCE (but probably A LOT more than that!)
> 
> Here is one of his songs I personally love "Victory"
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmePH9NKVFA



preach!!!!


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## Sui Topi (Jul 13, 2008)

I wouldn't go so far to say that he is the devil child, because I do bump some of his tracks, but I will say, and I hope this doesn't get me into trouble, but ... I know David danced, and the angels are always singing and merry and musical...but I don't think that all that screaming at the top of his lungs and throwing himself around is Godly at all. I'm not saying everything has to be calm and boring, we can most definitely get excited about God. I really respect what someone else said about Tye telling those kids not to defile God's sanctuary by taking pictures of him. That was really cool, but in the same breath, I think there should be some sort of reverence in the music. I started getting into some Christian hip hop lately, and I really had to stop and put things in perspective. I don't listen to it on the Sabbath, because to be honest, it is really not worship quality. I keep it for during the week. Its the same as any other hip hop, except there are some bible name drops every once in a while, and theres no "shake your booty/whoop that trick/etc..." I do listen to some of Tye's more calm stuff during the Sabbath though like "It's time now", "Taste and see", "Mighty Long Way"..etc. His live stuff, since it can get a little hectic sometimes, I save for during the week.


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## beautifulisaunderstatment (Jul 13, 2008)

Sui Topi said:


> I wouldn't go so far to say that he is the devil child, because I do bump some of his tracks, but I will say, and I hope this doesn't get me into trouble, but ... I know David danced, and the angels are always singing and merry and musical...*but I don't think that all that screaming at the top of his lungs and throwing himself around is Godly at all.* I'm not saying everything has to be calm and boring, we can most definitely get excited about God. I really respect what someone else said about Tye telling those kids not to defile God's sanctuary by taking pictures of him. That was really cool, but in the same breath, I think there should be some sort of reverence in the music. I started getting into some Christian hip hop lately, and I really had to stop and put things in perspective. I don't listen to it on the Sabbath, because to be honest, it is really not worship quality. I keep it for during the week. Its the same as any other hip hop, except there are some bible name drops every once in a while, and theres no "shake your booty/whoop that trick/etc..." I do listen to some of Tye's more calm stuff during the Sabbath though like "It's time now", "Taste and see", "Mighty Long Way"..etc. His live stuff, since it can get a little hectic sometimes, I save for during the week.


Umm you do know David danced so hard he danced out of his clothes right? His wife told him he was in the streets looking foolish even though it was for GOD... I aint know Tye had so many wives... This thread is full of them. 

Lemme throw out my music and pull out my old negro spiritual book... Are any of those too wordly? Someone let me know.


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## EbonyEyes (Jul 13, 2008)

beautifulisaunderstatment said:


> Umm you do know David danced so hard he danced out of his clothes right? His wife told him he was in the streets looking foolish even though it was for GOD... I aint know Tye had so many wives... This thread is full of them.
> 
> Lemme throw out my music and pull out my old negro spiritual book... Are any of those too wordly? Someone let me know.



Breathe in and breathe out honey!  

David didn't mind looking "foolish" in front of some folks because his praise was not for men but for God. 

I encourage all to read 2 Samuel 6 which tells the story that beautifulisaunderstatment was talking about above.  I just want to point out a few verses.  

v14 And David danced before the LORD *with all his might*; and David was girded with a linen ephod. 

v15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with *shouting*, and with the sound of the trumpet. 

v16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart. 

v20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, *who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!* 

v21 And David said unto Michal, *It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play (celebrate) before the LORD.*

So dancing (even wildly) and shouting are acceptable forms of expressing your love for the Lord.  We as Christians have to be extremely careful when we want to comment on how someone is praising God.  It is God that knows exactly where that person's heart is.  Let's say, I see a man in church jumping and dancing wildly in praise and I think he looks absolutely foolish.  I make up in my mind that I'm going to interrupt his praise, pull him over to the side and tell him how inappropriate and unnecessary his method of praise is and that he needs to calm it down and show some respect for the other people in God's house.  I could only imagine the conviction I'd feel in my spirit if right before I'm about to confront the man, God opens up my spiritual eyes and I see angels all around this man dancing and jumping and having a praise party right along with him!

beautifulisaunderstatment, one of the key lessons that God taught me is that not every Christian is going to accept your praise, even if the praise is 100% sincere and God and His angels are loving every moment of it!   So I say embrace the negro spiritual but also embrace other Holy Spirit annointed songs whether they are in a style of yesterday or in a style of today.  As long as you know in your heart that your worship is pleasing God, then it does not matter what any human being says, even if that human being is a well-meaning Christian.  People pleasing at the expense of God pleasing can break your spirit.  I truly believe that there are many God-loving people who don't fulfill their divine calling not because of what the world did or said but because they listened to Christians tell them that their ministry was all wrong and that their methods of worship were all wrong instead of listening to what God told them to do.


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## beautifulisaunderstatment (Jul 13, 2008)

EbonyEyes said:


> Breathe in and breathe out honey!
> 
> David didn't mind looking "foolish" in front of some folks because his praise was not for men but for God.
> 
> ...


Absolutely WONDERFUL post.


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## Sui Topi (Jul 14, 2008)

EbonyEyes said:


> Breathe in and breathe out honey!
> 
> David didn't mind looking "foolish" in front of some folks because his praise was not for men but for God.
> 
> ...


*

I guess this in the end is really the key and what matters*


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## cocoberry10 (Jul 15, 2008)

beautifulisaunderstatment said:


> Umm you do know David danced so hard he danced out of his clothes right? His wife told him he was in the streets looking foolish even though it was for GOD... I aint know Tye had so many wives... This thread is full of them.
> 
> Lemme throw out my music and pull out my old negro spiritual book... Are any of those too wordly? Someone let me know.


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## Caramela (Jul 15, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> The devil can "anoint" music, too.... (not saying that Tribbett is anointed by the devil). It was the devil's job in Heaven before he got kicked to the proverbial earthly curb because of his PRIDE and self-absorbed attitude.




Can someone please give me a biblical reference for this information? I hear people say it all the time, but I haven't come accross it in my studies as of yet...


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## PaperClip (Jul 15, 2008)

Caramela said:


> Can someone please give me a biblical reference for this information? I hear people say it all the time, but I haven't come accross it in my studies as of yet...


 

We can explore this together....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  So this is me thinking out loud....

1. Before Lucifer became satan/the devil, Lucifer was known as the "son of the morning" (Isaiah 14:12), an anointed cherub (Ezekiel 28:14) and then other verses in that chapter speak to how Lucifer had jewels in his body and "the workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created." (Ezekiel 28:13). 

2. Gifts are given without repentence, yes? (Romans 11:29: "For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]" (Amplified Bible)

3. So when the Lord God Almighty cast Lucifer out of heaven, his "gifts" were not separated from him, yes? Isaiah 14:12: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

(Luke 10:18: And he said unto them, I beheld *Satan* as lightning fall from heaven.)


4. The giftings and talents that the Lord gives all of us to use for HIS pleasure, when the enemy is given (or I'll say "sees") an open door in a person (Job 2:2; Luke 22:3), the enemy can PERVERT those God-given gifts and talents for something evil.


It doesn't say that the Lord God removed those things (or the symbolism of such things, e.g., beauty, enticements, etc.) And because of Lucifer's role as a literal musical instrument, it appears that it is MUSIC (among other things) in which Lucifer/now satan intensely works through.

The enemy tries to work through any door he can...he's a predator.... and since music WAS his "speciality" in heaven, it seems that music is an intense area.... when music is used for good (worship unto the Lord), it's a beautiful thing. But when it's used for evil, it generates much evil....


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## Monilove122 (Jul 15, 2008)

Let's also realize that this is a conversation that has been going on for YEARS and it didn't start with Tye.  Several people have pointed out that the origins of "ole school" (what some call Real or true) Gospel music is heavily rooted in blues music.  Let's face it, the rhythymic beats that SURROUND gospel music (because it's the message that matters and is in my opinion no different than when a preacher is preaching and the appointed musician plays those few chords after every sentence preached to get folks worked up) are not the issue.  The GOSPEL is the issue.  There are many who have said that the word of God doesn't need to be doctored up but I beg to differ because the point is that it has to REACH to TOUCH.   I don't know if some folks realize how many of our young folks are NOT coming to church so how and when are they supposed to hear the Word?  Jesus himself preached outside of the synagogues so that whomever wanted to hear him could come without worrying about not being able to "get in" the door.  And many churches are the same way today, if you aren't dressed a certain way, clap a certain way, praise a certain way, worship a certain way, you are hard pressed to get in the front door without being looked at and for someone who doesn't know God and is not saved that can be a turn off and they might never walk thru the doors again.  We have to remember to look at Tye's music and other artists like him as a way to reach THAT particular audience, it's not always meant for us.  I'd rather for them to be listening to Tye Tribbett and the Gospel Gangstaz than Young Jeezy and Soldier Boy!!!!!

I just don't get why there is always discussion about this....I forgot the name of this gospel rapper but he put it best when he asked how can we go to Puerto Rico to minister when you don't speak Spanish, China when you don't speak Chinese, or Japan when you don't speak Japanese?  Hip-hop and the genres in which SURROUNDS the gospel we are speaking about is nothing more than a language and that's a language that older folks just don't understand.  

My Mom LOVES quartet gospel, I enjoy more contemporary gospel, and my little cousin LOVES Tye and Kirk Franklin but are we not all listening to The Gospel?  I often ask people who are so critical of this genre of music if they've ever really listened to an entire cd and not jus the songs they bump on the radio.  Keeping in mind that Marvin Sapp (Never Would Have Made It) is played on every secular station in the nation right after a song about booty shaking so the fact that it's playing on secular stations or venues is not an argument.

But instead of being so critical let's understand the audience Tye reaches.  They are not us...he said himself that he has a heart for young people and I have personally seen young people respond to his music and give their lives to God.  I saw him in concert on TV and my, my, my...it's evident that he has a pure heart towards God and for the young people he's been called to minister to.  

I don't know what his struggles are but I know he has some cause as someone else said every last one of us does but, I pray that he continues on the path he is on right now and will always be a soldier in the army of the Lord winning souls and fighting the good fight.

Amen!


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## Eisani (Jul 15, 2008)

**kandi** said:


> ITA, this is definitely true. But you know this now because you are saved. Many people don't know anything about the power of GOD. If a song with a nice "beat" or a catchy tune gets them through the church doors to come to know GOD and his power than I say so be it.
> 
> You made another point about music ushering you into the holy of holies. I agree with your sentiments but I want to share that Tye Tribbett's Victory album played a big part in helping me get through the separation from my husband last year and our subsequent divorce. I mean Israel played a part too but Tye made me feel strong and undefeated.
> 
> ...


 
This actually made me tear up.  For me, the end of '06, '07, and early part of '08 was pure hell on so many different levels from a number of tragic, horrible deaths to my illness that nearly cost me my eyesight and possibly my life.  Tye's music was actually one of the tools I used to come out in one piece.  I definitely have to have a balance of both traditional and some contermporary music but bottom line, all has to be annointed. When I had to go to court to testify to a murder I witnessed, Victory (Tye), I Am Not Forgotten (Israel) and Total Praise (Richard Smallwood) were alternately playing in my head. The judge, detectives and prosecutor were shocked at my composure when questioned by the defense who is infamous for being a cage rattler but I knew where my strength came from. When I got sick, I became angry with the devil when thinking about the happenings of the past year and how much *I* allowed to happen so I Want It All Back was my JOINT! When I was physically able to go to church again (still unable to drive because I couldn't see), I Still Have Joy is what played in the car on the way there and I was crying then just thinking about how many times God had spared my life in the span of  little over 16 months. I could go on, and may give a full run down one of these days but this thread has really convicted me on some of my behavior lately. When I was up and back around, my pastor told me God didn't spare me for me to just come to church and sing in the choir, there was so much more I had been assigned to do. He just kept saying greater works, and I know that.  

Back to the topic, Tye, like any other artist, has been predestined and assigned to reach certain people. I feel everyone may have a slightly different assignment, but it's all to work for a common goal.  I couldn't see my daughter being "drawn" by The Mighty Clouds of Joy, but they aren't assigned to reach to her. Just like Tye may not be assigned to reach my grandmother.  This is just an example because my 10 y/o loves her some Shirley Caesar This doesn't mean the message has changed, just the way in which it's presented.


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## LivingDoll (Jul 15, 2008)

Monilove122 said:


> Let's also realize that this is a conversation that has been going on for YEARS and it didn't start with Tye. Several people have pointed out that the origins of "ole school" (what some call Real or true) Gospel music is heavily rooted in blues music. Let's face it, the rhythymic beats that SURROUND gospel music (because it's the message that matters and is in my opinion no different than when a preacher is preaching and the appointed musician plays those few chords after every sentence preached to get folks worked up) are not the issue. The GOSPEL is the issue. There are many who have said that the word of God doesn't need to be doctored up but I beg to differ because the point is that it has to REACH to TOUCH. I don't know if some folks realize how many of our young folks are NOT coming to church so how and when are they supposed to hear the Word? Jesus himself preached outside of the synagogues so that whomever wanted to hear him could come without worrying about not being able to "get in" the door. And many churches are the same way today, if you aren't dressed a certain way, clap a certain way, praise a certain way, worship a certain way, you are hard pressed to get in the front door without being looked at and for someone who doesn't know God and is not saved that can be a turn off and they might never walk thru the doors again. We have to remember to look at Tye's music and other artists like him as a way to reach THAT particular audience, it's not always meant for us. I'd rather for them to be listening to Tye Tribbett and the Gospel Gangstaz than Young Jeezy and Soldier Boy!!!!!
> 
> I just don't get why there is always discussion about this....I forgot the name of this gospel rapper but he put it best when he asked how can we go to Puerto Rico to minister when you don't speak Spanish, China when you don't speak Chinese, or Japan when you don't speak Japanese? Hip-hop and the genres in which SURROUNDS the gospel we are speaking about is nothing more than a language and that's a language that older folks just don't understand.
> 
> ...


 
Amen my sister!


----------



## Eisani (Jul 15, 2008)

Monielove122, we must've posted almost simultaneously...we used the same example of contemporary and traditional.


----------



## kandake (Jul 15, 2008)

Eisani said:


> This actually made me tear up.  For me, the end of '06, '07, and early part of '08 was pure hell on so many different levels from a number of tragic, horrible deaths to my illness that nearly cost me my eyesight and possibly my life.  Tye's music was actually one of the tools I used to come out in one piece.  I definitely have to have a balance of both traditional and some contermporary music but bottom line, all has to be annointed. When I had to go to court to testify to a murder I witnessed, Victory (Tye), I Am Not Forgotten (Israel) and Total Praise (Richard Smallwood) were alternately playing in my head. The judge, detectives and prosecutor were shocked at my composure when questioned by the defense who is infamous for being a cage rattler but I knew where my strength came from. When I got sick, I became angry with the devil when thinking about the happenings of the past year and how much *I* allowed to happen so I Want It All Back was my JOINT! When I was physically able to go to church again (still unable to drive because I couldn't see), I Still Have Joy is what played in the car on the way there and I was crying then just thinking about how many times God had spared my life in the span of  little over 16 months. I could go on, and may give a full run down one of these days but this thread has really convicted me on some of my behavior lately. When I was up and back around, my pastor told me God didn't spare me for me to just come to church and sing in the choir, there was so much more I had been assigned to do. He just kept saying greater works, and I know that.
> 
> Back to the topic, Tye, like any other artist, has been predestined and assigned to reach certain people. I feel everyone may have a slightly different assignment, but it's all to work for a common goal.  I couldn't see my daughter being "drawn" by The Mighty Clouds of Joy, but they aren't assigned to reach to her. Just like Tye may not be assigned to reach my grandmother.  This is just an example because my 10 y/o loves her some Shirley Caesar This doesn't mean the message has changed, just the way in which it's presented.



Eisani, I got chills reading your post.  I don't see how anyone could deny the anointing on this mans life after hearing about how his ministry has gotten people through the toughest and darkest time of their lives.

I agree with your thoughts on people being predestined/on assignment to reach certain people.  This is evident in both of our situations.

It got me to thinking; you know how you go to church some days and you're like "man that just wasn't my word"  but others are so excited because they felt like the pastor was speaking to them.  Gospel music is the same way.  If Tye's music ministry doesn't speak to you its okay, it just wasn't/isn't your word.  But as for me and many others, his music has truly been a blessing.


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 15, 2008)

**kandi** said:


> Eisani, I got chills reading your post. I don't see how anyone could deny the anointing on this mans life after hearing about how his ministry has gotten people through the toughest and darkest time of their lives.
> 
> I agree with your thoughts on people being predestined/on assignment to reach certain people. This is evident in both of our situations.
> 
> *It got me to thinking; you know how you go to church some days and you're like "man that just wasn't my word" but others are so excited because they felt like the pastor was speaking to them. Gospel music is the same way. If Tye's music ministry doesn't speak to you its okay, it just wasn't/isn't your word. But as for me and many others, his music has truly been a blessing*.


The bolded is SOOO deep!


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## Xavier (Jul 15, 2008)

His preaching has ministered to me just as much as his music. His lyrics are so straight forward...actually straight from the Word. I like the fact that he touches on a lot of topics that other artist tend to neglect.


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## crlsweetie912 (Jul 15, 2008)

Xavier said:


> His preaching has ministered to me just as much as his music. His lyrics are so straight forward...actually straight from the Word. I like the fact that he touches on a lot of topics that other artist tend to neglect.


Do you have the new CD, It's so wonderful!  It's called Stand Out and the title track is GREAT!


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## PaperClip (Jul 15, 2008)

**kandi** said:


> It got me to thinking; you know how you go to church some days and you're like "man that just wasn't my word" but others are so excited because they felt like the pastor was speaking to them. Gospel music is the same way. If Tye's music ministry doesn't speak to you its okay, it just wasn't/isn't your word. But as for me and many others, his music has truly been a blessing.


 
Ok....

First of all, in the 19+ years I've been going to the SAME church, I have NEVER said that a word "wasn't for me". There is (or should be) always SOMETHING that a person can get out of a message...or song.... because that's the more important piece of the subject matter: WHAT is being said versus HOW it's being said.

ETA: There is (or should be) always SOMETHING that a person can get out of a/any message...or song.... *WHEN IT IS ANOINTED!!!* (put in red to salute the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!)

10 years from now (or maybe sooner), Tye may get the same "criticism" that Fred Hammond got, or Rance Allen, or the Edwin Hawkins singers with "O Happy Day" and my fundamental point still stands: the Gospel of Jesus Christ does not not to be "tricked out" to attract anybody.

Again, for the good of the order, I am not saying that Tye is the devil or he's not anointed. What I am saying is that I hope Tye is "doing himself" for the love of the Lord and the Gospel... and further, I wonder how he would receive some of these DISMISSIVE ATTITUDES about his music, e.g., if it ain't for you, then it ain't for you.

The GOSPEL is for EVERYONE.

1 Corinthians 9: 19-23: "Even though I am free of the demands and expectations of everyone, I have voluntarily become a servant to any and all in order to reach a wide range of people: religious, nonreligious, meticulous moralists, loose-living immoralists, the defeated, the demoralized—whoever. I didn't take on their way of life. I kept my bearings in Christ—but I entered their world and tried to experience things from their point of view. I've become just about every sort of servant there is in my attempts to lead those I meet into a God-saved life. I did all this because of the Message. I didn't just want to talk about it; I wanted to be in on it!"


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## PaperClip (Jul 15, 2008)

Xavier said:


> His preaching has ministered to me just as much as his music. His lyrics are so straight forward...actually straight from the Word. *I like the fact that he touches on a lot of topics that other artist tend to neglect.*


 
Angel's advocate: Have you listened to (all) other artists and documented what has and has not been neglected?


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## Eisani (Jul 15, 2008)

No one is denying the gospel is for everyone.  What I'm taking from the posts is that the way in which it's presented does vary thus reaching different people. I don't see dismissive attitudes, I see it as just like most do on Sunday, what you take from the message may vary greatly from the person sitting next to you, depending on their past experiences, current situation, and spiritual maturity. There are a number of factors that could play a part. If someone comes to my church to teach on improving the relationship and communication between husband and wife, since I'm single, it's not intended for me-at least not in the context presented.  This doesn't mean I don't take from the message or learn anything,  I just wouldn't consider it something that applies to my life right now. Same thing w/music. I'm thinking that's what Kandi meant as well, but I don't like to make presumptions.


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## kandake (Jul 15, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Ok....
> 
> First of all, in the 19+ years I've been going to the SAME church, I have NEVER said that a word "wasn't for me". There is (or should be) always SOMETHING that a person can get out of a message...or song.... because that's the more important piece of the subject matter: WHAT is being said versus HOW it's being said.
> 
> ETA: There is (or should be) always SOMETHING that a person can get out of a/any message...or song.... *WHEN IT IS ANOINTED!!!* (put in red to salute the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!)



Well, for me I have left church thinking that a word wasn't for me simply because it didn't apply to my life, my issues, my concerns, my fears, my struggles, my sin etc.  On the other hand that same word may directly relate to something some else is going through, their struggles, their fears, their issues, their sin etc.  The sermon was their "word" because it was tailored made to reach them.  Of course this happens both ways because there are many sermons I feel were tailored made just for me.  It was my "word".


ETA:  It is my prayer that Tye and others would handle dismissive attitudes the same way Jesus did.  Brush it off and keep on doing the will of GOD.


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## PaperClip (Jul 15, 2008)

**kandi** said:


> Well, for me I have left church thinking that a word wasn't for me simply because it didn't apply to my life, my issues, my concerns, my fears, my struggles, my sin etc. On the other hand that same word may directly relate to something some else is going through, their struggles, their fears, their issues, their sin etc. The sermon was their "word" because it was tailored made to reach them. Of course this happens both ways because there are many sermons I feel were tailored made just for me. It was my "word".
> 
> 
> ETA: It is my prayer that Tye and others would handle dismissive attitudes the same way Jesus did. Brush it off and keep on doing the will of GOD.


 
You just articulated the difference between the logos and the rhema word. 

The logos word is for all of us... any (anointed) message of the gospel of Jesus Christ is going to be a blessing...is going to bring life. Romans 10:17 and Psalm 119 are two biblical points that demonstrate the blessing that comes from hearing the gospel, the Word of God...the logos word, be it preached, sung, read, etc.

A rhema word is that certain word, idea, concept that comes forth in an anointed message that speaks encouragement, insight as that message theme addresses specific issues that a person may be going through.

In either case, hearing the Word of God is going to be a blessing... it's never an issue of "well, that just wasn't for me"....

And with regard to the dismissive attitudes, I imagine that Tye wouldn't want to hear people say "If you don't like Tye's music, don't listen to it". And that's certainly NOT anything I would say to anyone about the Lord Jesus Christ.


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## kandake (Jul 15, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> You just articulated the difference between the logos and the rhema word.
> 
> The logos word is for all of us... any (anointed) message of the gospel of Jesus Christ is going to be a blessing...is going to bring life. Romans 10:17 and Psalm 119 are two biblical points that demonstrate the blessing that comes from hearing the gospel, the Word of God...the logos word, be it preached, sung, read, etc.
> 
> ...



IA with what you are saying about the rhema and logos word.  Maybe I'm wrong for expressing it this way but I just think that if its not a rhema word/tailor made word than it wasn't my word.  But there have been times when I've found a rhema word hidden inside message that I didn't think applied to me.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the dismissive attitude thing.   I just think that he has to know that not everyone is going to like or accept his music; simply because people are people whether they're Christian or not.

All in all, I appreciate the sentiments you've expressed on the topic.


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## Caramela (Jul 15, 2008)

deleted. double post.


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## Caramela (Jul 15, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> We can explore this together....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, thanks. 
But according to scipture, God does take away gifts, right? Like he took away the "talent" (I know this was a denotion of money) from the one man who buried his. And the scriptures say (luke12:48) "... For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required" ... and if we take care of those things (matthew 25:21) "You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things" ... paraphrasing  So, I believe "gifts" can be taken away according to the scriptures. Maybe he just doesn't revoke gifts EVERY time we're unfaithful, but I think he CAN.
I understand your point though, that a good gift can be perverted. Makes sense.


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## Sui Topi (Jul 16, 2008)

Monilove122 said:


> Let's also realize that this is a conversation that has been going on for YEARS and it didn't start with Tye.  Several people have pointed out that the origins of "ole school" (what some call Real or true) Gospel music is heavily rooted in blues music.  Let's face it, the rhythymic beats that SURROUND gospel music (because it's the message that matters and is in my opinion no different than when a preacher is preaching and the appointed musician plays those few chords after every sentence preached to get folks worked up) are not the issue.  The GOSPEL is the issue.  There are many who have said that the word of God doesn't need to be doctored up but I beg to differ because the point is that it has to REACH to TOUCH.   I don't know if some folks realize how many of our young folks are NOT coming to church so how and when are they supposed to hear the Word?  Jesus himself preached outside of the synagogues so that whomever wanted to hear him could come without worrying about not being able to "get in" the door.  And many churches are the same way today, if you aren't dressed a certain way, clap a certain way, praise a certain way, worship a certain way, you are hard pressed to get in the front door without being looked at and for someone who doesn't know God and is not saved that can be a turn off and they might never walk thru the doors again.  We have to remember to look at Tye's music and other artists like him as a way to reach THAT particular audience, it's not always meant for us.  I'd rather for them to be listening to Tye Tribbett and the Gospel Gangstaz than Young Jeezy and Soldier Boy!!!!!
> 
> I just don't get why there is always discussion about this....I forgot the name of this gospel rapper but he put it best when he asked how can we go to Puerto Rico to minister when you don't speak Spanish, China when you don't speak Chinese, or Japan when you don't speak Japanese?  Hip-hop and the genres in which SURROUNDS the gospel we are speaking about is nothing more than a language and that's a language that older folks just don't understand.
> 
> ...



This is a nice post. I really hear what you are saying and I agree with it, however I do still hold on to how I feel. I understand David got hype, but I think we should remember that Jesus is our perfect example. Men in the bible have countless stories on which we are to draw examples from and morals, but they fall short of Jesus. I don't ever recall any stories of Him not being reverent to His Father, throwing himself around and thats what matters to me. I know he got excited and moved, cried, but I don't remember hearing about Him acting crazy. I will not turn away from lessons learned by other men in the bible, but Jesus, especially in his lessons in worship is who I always look to.





I may be sooo wrong, and I am not going to go around condemning people because they want to clap and sing loudly in church. I don't see anything wrong with that. Please don't think I am being a Pharisee. I just feel there should be a certain level of respect and reverence in music that is intended for worshipping our Father. He doesn't deserve any less. But like I said, I don't know anyone's heart, I only know my own. If I am misinterpreting things, I will mos def be shown. (Wow, that rhymes ) Keep in mind not all of Tye's songs are screaming and madness. Like I said before, he has a lot of touching songs which I have on rotation. I just think he gets really excited and lets go sometimes.

I can really respect Tyes aims in his missionary though. We really really need to get our young people to have meaningful relationships with God. I really feel that his heart is in the right place and I pray he will continue to touch people and help steward them in to Gods arms.


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## Monilove122 (Jul 16, 2008)

Eisani said:


> Monielove122, we must've posted almost simultaneously...we used the same example of contemporary and traditional.


 
Sorry girl, LOL.  

And no offense to ANYONE but I just get so tired of folks making rash judgements about new forms of gospel music (not speaking to anyone here I'm speaking GENERALLY) just because they don't understand it.  My first reaction is always 'if you don't like it, don't listen to it' plain and simple but it goes further than that because it's time out for all of this mess in the Kingdom.   There is too much Kingdom work to be done and one style and one way can't reach everyone.  

For example - when there is  preaching about folks who have had addictions such as alcohol, drugs, promiscuity, etc. it doesn't reach me because I've never had such addictions - IT DOESN'T SPEAK TO ME.  I've seen preachers bring crack pipes as part of their sermons and break them to show how God can break you from any addiction you have.  It might not be music but yes, the word is being wrapped up to ILLUSTRATE.  It's not a sermon I'm jumping up and down on but I can empathize.  And it's the same way with Tye Tribbett, Kirk Franklin, Gospel Gangstaz etc.  people may not be able to identify with it and it might be wrapped up in a different package but it's reaching someone.  And if just one person comes out of the darkness into the light because of a bounce your head song by one of the above artists is it not worth it?  I think one thing we can ALL agree on is...YES IT IS!!!!!!


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## Monilove122 (Jul 16, 2008)

Sui Topi said:


> This is a nice post. I really hear what you are saying and I agree with it, however I do still hold on to how I feel. I understand David got hype, but I think we should remember that Jesus is our perfect example. Men in the bible have countless stories on which we are to draw examples from and morals, but they fall short of Jesus. I don't ever recall any stories of Him not being reverent to His Father, throwing himself around and thats what matters to me. I know he got excited and moved, cried, but I don't remember hearing about Him acting crazy. I will not turn away from lessons learned by other men in the bible, but Jesus, especially in his lessons in worship is who I always look to.
> 
> I may be sooo wrong, and I am not going to go around condemning people because they want to clap and sing loudly in church. I don't see anything wrong with that. Please don't think I am being a Pharisee. I just feel there should be a certain level of respect and reverence in music that is intended for worshipping our Father. He doesn't deserve any less. But like I said, I don't know anyone's heart, I only know my own. If I am misinterpreting things, I will mos def be shown. (Wow, that rhymes ) Keep in mind not all of Tye's songs are screaming and madness. Like I said before, he has a lot of touching songs which I have on rotation. I just think he gets really excited and lets go sometimes.
> 
> I can really respect Tyes aims in his missionary though. We really really need to get our young people to have meaningful relationships with God. I really feel that his heart is in the right place and I pray he will continue to touch people and help steward them in to Gods arms.


 
Hey 

You know I agree with you but we first have to get them to know who God before they can move on to having a meaningful relationship with Him.

Not to mention, they are young folks.  They want to have fun and bounce around.  I actually wish there was a Tye Tribbett when I was younger because maybe I wouldn't have clubbed as long as I did (I'm a singer and a music lover so I would go to the club just to hear the music sometimes) if I knew I could come to church and hear something like this.  When I see the young folks at my church have fun with this music then worship God...it's AWESOME.  

It's what brings them in the door yes but it's definitely not what keeps them there.  When I was younger I didn't see people my age worshipping the way this generation of young people does and for me, it's not because I didn't want to but c'mon teenagers never want to be embarrassed.  I will never forget shouting at church then going to school the next day and teased for being the little church girl but now kids (most of the time) don't have the same issues.  It's not an uncool thing to listen to the preacher and sing in the choir like it was before.  These artists are meeting the needs of our young people and I for one am EXCITED to see them on *fire* for God.

I get what you are saying but again, Tye and those artists like him are not for EVERYONE.  I don't care for Helen Baylor but many of my friends LOVE HER.  When it comes to this topic I think we have gotten off track and taken the "argument" (not that anyone is arguing but you know what I mean, LOL) too far.  It's more about musical taste than anything else.


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## Valerie (Jul 16, 2008)

God does not care how you play your music, gospel, rock, soul or whatever as long as you worship him.  That includes, young, old, whatever race or nation. If people want to sing in a particular way to worship God.  Bless them in Jesus name!


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## PaperClip (Jul 16, 2008)

Monilove122 said:


> Sorry girl, LOL.
> 
> And no offense to ANYONE but I just get so tired of folks making rash judgements about new forms of gospel music (not speaking to anyone here I'm speaking GENERALLY) just because they don't understand it. My first reaction is always 'if you don't like it, don't listen to it' plain and simple but it goes further than that because it's time out for all of this mess in the Kingdom. There is too much Kingdom work to be done and one style and one way can't reach everyone.
> 
> For example - when there is preaching about folks who have had addictions such as alcohol, drugs, promiscuity, etc. it doesn't reach me because I've never had such addictions - IT DOESN'T SPEAK TO ME. I've seen preachers bring crack pipes as part of their sermons and break them to show how God can break you from any addiction you have. It might not be music but yes, the word is being wrapped up to ILLUSTRATE. It's not a sermon I'm jumping up and down on but I can empathize. And it's the same way with Tye Tribbett, Kirk Franklin, Gospel Gangstaz etc. people may not be able to identify with it and it might be wrapped up in a different package but it's reaching someone. And if just one person comes out of the darkness into the light because of a bounce your head song by one of the above artists is it not worth it? I think one thing we can ALL agree on is...YES IT IS!!!!!!


 

I've asked before and I'll ask again: what's the definition of judgement?

I started another thread about gospel music websites that write reviews of gospel music CDs and I asked if they were also judging? Or because it seems the reviews are mostly favorable, then it's not judging?

Here's the link to the thread....
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=256445

And to speculate that one is judging because of a lack of understanding? Exactly how so?

This isn't a question about one style reaching one particular type of people. In fact, that reasoning is both judgemental and condescending because it assumes that a certain type of person likes and understands ONLY a certain type of music. It's downright insulting to assume, for example, that since I am from Detroit, I must like and understand only Motown music. The examples can be switched up but the principle applies accordingly.

And with regard to the point about a message on addictions: we have ALL BEEN addicted to SOMETHING. The illegal drugs and the illicit habits get more attention. So we all can get something out of a message on addictions. People can be addicted to food, network TV, coffee, LHCF, etc. There's a lesson we can all learn from an ANOINTED message about addictions.

And no offense to anyone in general, but am sure to direct my responses specifically, in a respectful tone.


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## Monilove122 (Jul 16, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> I've asked before and I'll ask again: what's the definition of judgement?
> 
> I started another thread about gospel music websites that write reviews of gospel music CDs and I asked if they were also judging? Or because it seems the reviews are mostly favorable, then it's not judging?
> 
> ...


 
Hi FoxyScholar,

Let me start by pointing out that we are not speaking about music reviews here.  That's completely irrelevant to this discussion (or at least the point I am making).  

Also, not sure how you are viewing my saying a certain STYLE of music appeals to a certain audience as judgemental.  What's not true about that?  What's judgmental about that?  I can't say that I'm a fan of rock music and of course there is rock gospel (and heavy metal).  Will that appeal to me enough for me to HEAR the message.  Probably not.  I don't like the package it's wrapped up in.  The same with preaching styles.  I know some folks that just won't listen to certain preachers.  They don't like their style it may be a bit too dry, or too many huhs and hahs.  It's a matter of preference.  

First I want to say I said I've never had *SUCH* addictions.  But furthermore addictions is a strong word.  I can say I've NEVER had an addiction and THANK YOU JESUS FOR THAT.  I didn't say I couldn't get something out of the message, I just said that it didn't relate to me.  Here is the Webster's meaning of addiction.

Addiction
2*:* compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; _broadly_ *:* persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful
Addicted
1 *:* to devote or surrender (oneself) to something habitually or obsessively <_addicted_ to gambling> 2 *:* to cause *addiction* to a substance in (a person or animal) 

As you can see, addiction means that it's behavior that you cannot voluntarily stop and I've never had that.  Now, have I had some bad habits yes.  But they were things I could stop.  Not everyone has an addiction.  

But I'm loving this dialogue,  It's great and I'm really enjoying it.


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## PaperClip (Jul 16, 2008)

Monilove122 said:


> Sorry girl, LOL.
> 
> And no offense to ANYONE but *I just get so tired of folks making rash judgements about new forms of gospel music* (not speaking to anyone here I'm speaking GENERALLY) *just because they don't understand it.* *My first reaction is always 'if you don't like it, don't listen to it' plain* and simple but it goes further than that because it's time out for all of this mess in the Kingdom. There is too much Kingdom work to be done and one style and one way can't reach everyone.
> 
> For example - when there is preaching about folks who have had addictions such as alcohol, drugs, promiscuity, etc. it doesn't reach me because I've never had such addictions - IT DOESN'T SPEAK TO ME. I've seen preachers bring crack pipes as part of their sermons and break them to show how God can break you from any addiction you have. It might not be music but yes, the word is being wrapped up to ILLUSTRATE. It's not a sermon I'm jumping up and down on but I can empathize. And it's the same way with Tye Tribbett, Kirk Franklin, Gospel Gangstaz etc. people may not be able to identify with it and it might be wrapped up in a different package but it's reaching someone. And if just one person comes out of the darkness into the light because of a bounce your head song by one of the above artists is it not worth it? I think one thing we can ALL agree on is...YES IT IS!!!!!!


 


Monilove122 said:


> Hi FoxyScholar,
> 
> Let me start by pointing out that we are not speaking about music reviews here. That's completely irrelevant to this discussion (or at least the point I am making).
> 
> ...


 

I'm addressing the points highlighted from your two most recent posts....

The term "judgement" came in when you said "rash judgements" about "new" forms of gospel music (which compels another question in terms of exactly what is "new" gospel music)....

And then to imply that such judgement comes from lack of understanding is simply...not understandable either. How can a person know if they do or don't like something if they've never listened to it? Sure, we may have leanings toward a particular type of subgenre of gospel, based on what we heard growing up and so on and so forth, but to automatically restrict a certain type of music to a certain audience, in my opinion, has an oppressive feel to it.

I know real grown folk who LOVE Tye. I know young folk who groove to some quartet stuff (not me...but when I give some quartet music a chance when I'm in the mood, every so often I will hear a song that sounds kinda good! LOL!) So like you said, will it appeal enough to hear the message? Sure, when I feel like giving attention to that particular song at that particular moment. And I'm also saying that WE ALL CAN and WE ALL SHOULD expand our gospel music horizons into some unfamiliar territory every once in a while to see what other subgenres we may like so we can participate in these types of conversations with more informed opinions.

With regard to your point about addictions: per the definition you presented, it does not indicate anything about voluntary or involuntary ability to cease the addiction. We have all dealt with something on a compulsive level, be it for an hour, a minute, etc. Even Lay's Chips says "you can't eat just one". It's in the culture. And for many of us, most of these addictions don't seem to be long-term or life-threatening. I used to drink Coca-Cola COMPUSIVELY. I stopped/weaned myself off of it years ago (Hallelujah!). I know people who have stopped smoking cold turkey (A voluntary measure). Others may have to go through a formalized program. I'm not talking about the KIND of addiction one may have versus dealing with a compulsive behavior that we have all dealt with on some level.


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## Keep1Belle (Jul 16, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Whoa!
> 
> Well, maybe it should be clear about what is meant by "old school gospel"....
> 
> ...


 
I have to respectfully disagree with this statement.  What may help you in a crisis situation may not help me and vice versa.  your go-to song or scripture may vary grealy than mine.  As long as they are sound int he WORD and teachings of Christ, I do not say how one can be viewed as more holy than the other.

This is like a friend of mine who always kneels to pray at church,home, wherever, I have nothing wrong with that.  We got to talking and her view was she felt she was closes to God that way, ok that makes sense.  But, from my view.  When I was driving home from a late night and was side swiped across 3 lanes of traffic and i called out to God, I still felt very much close to him and his protection, I did not need to kneel.  She still kneels when she prays and i pray anywhere at any moment.  I dont think either of us are wrong.

I believe music, if based in the Word NOT the World is the same.


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## PaperClip (Jul 16, 2008)

Keep1Belle said:


> I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. What may help you in a crisis situation may not help me and vice versa. your go-to song or scripture may vary grealy than mine. As long as they are sound int he WORD and teachings of Christ, I do not say how one can be viewed as more holy than the other.
> 
> This is like a friend of mine who always kneels to pray at church,home, wherever, I have nothing wrong with that. We got to talking and her view was she felt she was closes to God that way, ok that makes sense. But, from my view. When I was driving home from a late night and was side swiped across 3 lanes of traffic and i called out to God, I still felt very much close to him and his protection, I did not need to kneel. She still kneels when she prays and i pray anywhere at any moment. I dont think either of us are wrong.
> 
> *I believe music, if based in the Word NOT the World is the same.*


 
Based on your last sentence (bolded), you actually SHOULD agree with me. Why? Because it sounds like the issue has to do with the FORMAT (or subgenre) of gospel versus the CONTENT (message).

It may help you to understand why I said what I said: I was responding to the poster who said this: *"old school gospel isn't gonna save our children, a new generation. they need to undertand that a saved life doesn't mean that life is no longer fun and enjoyable."*

So then the question becomes this: what's "old school gospel" and what's "new school gospel"?

I can find you an old-school example of any so-called new school gospel. And upthread, I believe I also mentioned how in 10 years, people may be calling Tye's stuff "old school gospel". There's nothing new under the sun.

It's one thing to have a preference for a particular song or whatever. We're all different people with different likes and dislikes, etc. I will say if a person's attention is more on the beats than the message, then there's something wrong, very wrong with that.

And in a crisis moment (particularly like the one you describe about driving in a car), I don't know how many people would have a chance to kneel. So that's kind of an extreme example. 

And while it's not a matter of being right or wrong in terms of what specific actions get one closer to the Lord, I will say that while the Lord is no respecter of persons (that's the Word), He certainly likes it when we do things that get His attention with a sincere heart (like kneeling, like laying prostrate, etc.). The Lord has feelings just like we do (He laughs, mourns, cries, etc.) and just like we gravitate toward people who do things for us out of love and sincereity, so does He.


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## kandake (Jul 16, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> *And I'm also saying that WE ALL CAN and WE ALL SHOULD expand our gospel music horizons into some unfamiliar territory every once in a while* to see what other subgenres we may like so we can participate in these types of conversations with more informed opinions.



I agree with the bolded.  For years I would only listen to black gospel music.  I started listening to "inspirational/pop/praise and worship" types music by white artist when I was in college and I fell in love.  I don't always remember the names of the artist but I recognize the songs that I like.  I absolutely love Michael W. Smith's version of Agnus Dei (I like the Donnie McClurkin version too).

I'm so glad I opened up my heart and my mind to other genres of gospel/inspirational music.


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## PaperClip (Jul 16, 2008)

**kandi** said:


> I agree with the bolded. For years I would only listen to black gospel music. I started listening to "inspirational/pop/praise and worship" types music by white artist when I was in college and I fell in love. I don't always remember the names of the artist but I recognize the songs that I like. I absolutely love Michael W. Smith's version of Agnus Dei (I like the Donnie McClurkin version too).
> 
> I'm so glad I opened up my heart and my mind to other genres of gospel/inspirational music.


 
And A LOT of the praise and worship music sung in churches come from other versions of those inspirational/pop/praise and worship songs written by those White artists....

"How Great Is Our God" was written by Chris Tomlin (that's my song!)... I've heard at least two different versions on Black choir CDs (and I don't like them as much...and I started singing in the adult choir at 12 years old so I know choir music). And that's not a bad thing.... at least somebody has begun to expand their horizons.

Kirk Franklin is another one who has attempted to bring in some other genres as well. I believe it's the "Rebirth" CD(?) where he does some stuff with TobyMac.... I gave it a listen.... It was like "eh" but from a musical standpoint, I applaud him for taking the risk and expanding his own musical horizon....

There are other examples of this....


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## Keep1Belle (Jul 16, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Based on your last sentence (bolded), you actually SHOULD agree with me. Why? Because it sounds like the issue has to do with the FORMAT (or subgenre) of gospel versus the CONTENT (message).
> 
> It may help you to understand why I said what I said: I was responding to the poster who said this: *"old school gospel isn't gonna save our children, a new generation. they need to undertand that a saved life doesn't mean that life is no longer fun and enjoyable."*
> 
> ...


 
I guess my point is that if "new school"  has the same message as an old school song, just different arrangement, then I dont see any harm in that.  Its ok that the music has more bounce in that.

We had youth day at church a while back.  Now even I will admit sometimes they youth s t r e t c h things a bit.  But this one girl sang a song, I believe she wrote it and the message was similar to that old "jesus on the main line" song.  Her version just had some "bounce" to it with the beat machine.  I didnt see anything wrong with that in that the message was there.

I agree that in sometimes with commercialization the message is lost.  But when i look at Tye Tribbets music as a whole, I dont believe that is the case.


All in IMHO


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## Monilove122 (Jul 16, 2008)

In regards to judgement, I'm speaking of it as plain as I can.  Don't know if you want me to give a definition of what I mean or not as you keep touching on that.  

Not sure where the bolded comes in as it's not something I said or IMPLIED.  I'm just simply stating that EVERYONE no matter who they are likes a certain style of music.  You suggested early that because you are from Detroit you should only like Motown according to your interpretation of my comments and that's not even close to what I said.  If that were the case I should LOVE hip-hop as I am from The Bronx and that is the birthplace of that genre.  Not so at all.  What I am saying though is that the music that SURROUNDS the Gospel has an effect as to whether or not it will reach the listener.  

I happen to actually be a lover of different genres of music.  Some quartet groups I like but overall, it's not my cup of tea.  I like Bon Jovi but do I LOVE rock music generally speaking - no.  So that again makes a difference to the listener.  I guarantee you that the Pastor of the OP doesn't like Tye because he doesn't like that GENRE of music.  It can't be because of the message because if he has indeed listened to Tye's music he speaks of nothing but praising & worshipping God.  

And I'm grown folks (I'll be 35 this year) and I LOVE Tye.  But my Aunt who is 65, hmmmm...not so much, LOL.  It's because it's a style that is unfamiliar to her, she also doesn't like miming or stepping in the church. She says it's not God but most of us know different.  So again, it's about the listener (or per my example above, the viewer).

Lastly in regards to addiction your analogy of Lay's chips and you can't just eat just one.  That isn't addiction, that's momentary.  When people think of addiction are they really thinking of eating a few chips in that moment, I don't think so.  Addiction per the definition I gave is past compulsion - it is psychological and because it is psychological that is why it's not something you can just stop doing voluntarily.  Yeah, I know people who gave up smoking cold turkey.  My father was one of those people but he also told me that it was a struggle every day at first and then it diminished over time.  Again, not everyone has addictions and I never spoke of any particular type of addiction - I'm speaking in general.  I thank God everyday that I don't because it could have been the other way.  



FoxyScholar said:


> I'm addressing the points highlighted from your two most recent posts....
> 
> The term "judgement" came in when you said "rash judgements" about "new" forms of gospel music (which compels another question in terms of exactly what is "new" gospel music)....
> 
> ...


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## Zeal (Jul 16, 2008)

As a homegirl of the tri-state area.  I was listening to Tye when he was a local boy with a group. This was before the albums came out.  However, I knew he was going to do great things in the gospel arena.

Tye is just different like "John the Baptist".  Listen to the whole album.  He has lot's of praise and worship and powerful lyrics. Honestly Tye has a personality like his Mom. 

"Everything to Me", "Sinking" .

Have you really listened to the lyrics to Stand Out.  Tye has like... this.. rock influence.  He had a white group at one time i heard them perfome.  I don't know what became of them.


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## Zeal (Jul 16, 2008)

EbonyEyes said:


> Breathe in and breathe out honey!
> 
> David didn't mind looking "foolish" in front of some folks because his praise was not for men but for God.
> 
> ...


 
I hear you!!! Not to change the subject.  I am a praise dance at my church.  There are some people who ain't digging it.  I don't want to offend.  In the same breath don't knock my praise.


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## Butterfly08 (Jul 27, 2008)

I love several songs off of Tye's new album (his earlier albums not so much, just not my style).  I just downloaded Hold On, Let Is Worship and Hallelujah to my ipod.  I love the music and MOST IMPORTANTLY the message.


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## saved06 (Aug 1, 2008)

uhhh..lol.... just pray for Tye, I think he is battling a homosexual spirit. I will try and find the interview but he mentioned that he wanted to make an underground Lust album..I'll try and find it for you all. I know this sounds crazy... but we can't just point out Tye, I used to work for a popular label that also had a gospel label with it. And I will tell you most of the men in gospel are homosexual and it's a big trend. So we can get on Tye but those other CD's we listen to are made under that same spirit.


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## taytay86 (Jun 18, 2009)

saved06 said:


> uhhh..lol.... just pray for Tye, I think he is battling a homosexual spirit. I will try and find the interview but he mentioned that he wanted to make an underground Lust album..I'll try and find it for you all. I know this sounds crazy... but we can't just point out Tye, I used to work for a popular label that also had a gospel label with it. And I will tell you most of the men in gospel are homosexual and it's a big trend. So we can get on Tye but those other CD's we listen to are made under that same spirit.


 
I'd like to see that link


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## mamaore (Jun 18, 2009)

Sui Topi said:


> This is a nice post. I really hear what you are saying and I agree with it, however I do still hold on to how I feel. I understand David got hype, but I think we should remember that Jesus is our perfect example. Men in the bible have countless stories on which we are to draw examples from and morals, but they fall short of Jesus. I* don't ever recall any stories of Him not being reverent to His Father, throwing himself around and thats what matters to me. I know he got excited and moved, cried, but I don't remember hearing about Him acting crazy*.
> 
> Didnt Jesus act "crazy" when he chased folks away from the temple when they were buying and selling; Thats passion. I remember paul writing strongly worded letters to the Corinthians (Ist Cor)
> 
> ...


 

There is a time to minister to each other, there is a time to minister to the Lord.
A lof of songs today minister to us, encouraging us, challenging us and reminding us what we are in Christ. There is a place for that. 
However there is a place for songs of worship, when we lift our hands in praise to God our Father and to Jesus the son for who he is.

We all have to recognise these types of songs, they are both needed and at different times. And not everyone is called to do both. Everyone has a grace and  gift as the spirit wills.

As per these artists, we should be careful with judging. There is a thin line between speaking in generalities and judging what others do. We are each responsible for our walk with the Lord. None of us was there when the Lord spoke to Tye, how are we so sure he is not doing exactly what the Lord sent him. Except we perceive this in our spirt or the Holy spirit reveals to us, we should be careful to talk about what we do not understand. We always know in part.

As we type online, we need to remember whatever things are good, whatever things are of good report, if there by any virtue, if there be any praise? 
Our conversations should always adhere to this guidelines.

Personally,these days, I vet my songs based on whether its spewing unbelief or its scriptural. Just discovered Donald Lawrence - Law of Confession. Its been a long time I bought a CD where all the tracks was the real goods.
If its a worship song, then let it help me minister effctively to the Lord; if the purpose of the song is to minister to me, it better be talking the word.


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## mamaore (Jun 18, 2009)

Let us all remember that God did not create us the same, our needs are different.
Even the 12 disciples were all very different from each other.

As far as am concerned the devil always try to use this I belong to Paul and I belong to Apollo arguement to cause divisions in the church.

Like some folks dont like the message bible, they say its watered down. While some wont be caught dead with a KJV transalation.

Some folks dont like small churches, some like big churches.

There is diversity in the gifts of the spirit and God blesses us with different deliveries. We need to understand and respect that.


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