# When it Comes to Truth, Tolerance is a Travesty



## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

I was reading through a series of articles this morning, (not unusual for me ) when I came across this article by Hank Hanegraaff. Often times I've heard that as a Christian, I'm not doing the right thing by being intolerant and judgemental about the beliefs of others. I've often wondered where that came from because nowhere in the bible does God ever teach us to be tolerant of other religions. In fact, the opposite is true. Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe that all religions lead to the one true God...   Anyway, I just wanted to post it for those of you who might be interested in reading it. Be blessed, sisters. 
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When it Comes to Truth, Tolerance is a Travesty
by: Hank Hanegraaff

*Q: Why are Christians so judgmental and unloving?*

A: Because we live in an age of tolerance where almost anything goes, openly questioning or criticizing other people's belief systems can quickly get you labeled as judgmental, narrow-minded, bigoted, hateful, and even ignorant. With regard to Christianity, Matthew 7:1 is often quoted (or should I say "misquoted") as discouraging Christians from putting other religious teachings and practices to the test: "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

This interpretation of Scripture, however, is simply mistaken. The Bible clearly speaks out not against passing judgment in general, but against rendering inaccurate and unfair judgments (John 7:24). In 1 Corinthians 2:15 Paul tells us that Christians are called to make "judgments about all things." Our judgment, though, should not be based on what God has not revealed; but rather, on what He has revealed (v. 13).

God's revealed Word, the Bible, tells us that Jesus Christ is the only way we can possibly reach God and that there's no alternate route (Acts 4:12). It stands to reason, therefore, that other beliefs offering alleged alternate pathways to God only lead to dead-ends. And if we as Christians really want to follow our Lord's teaching to love our neighbors, we can't escape our responsibility to warn them about spiritually destructive roads paved by non-Christian belief systems (Prov. 14:12). True love and compassion should move believers to sound warning cries, even in the face of opposition, to avert countless lives from heading toward eternal separation from God.

Let's realize that when we call teachings into question, it's only because we're concerned about the eternal destinies of people. Let's also keep in mind that Scripture doesn't command us to simply rail against false teachings; rather, it encourages us to offer biblical reasons with gentleness and respect (1 Pet. 3:15). Always remember that when it comes to personal relationships, tolerance is a virtue; but when it comes to truth, tolerance is a travesty.
-Hank Hanegraaff


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## MomofThreeBoys (Feb 23, 2005)

Great Post Pebbles!  I have thought about doing a sermon on "Judging".  As I've stated in other posts, it seems as if whenever a Christian points out error they are labeled as being "judgemental'.  I'll have to pray about it some more!


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> Great Post Pebbles! I have thought about doing a sermon on "Judging".  As I've stated in other posts, it seems as if whenever a Christian points out error they are labeled as being "judgemental'.  I'll have to pray about it some more!


That would be a great surmon! There needs to be some clarification made when it comes to 'judgement.' Pointing out error is politically incorrect now, and so basically, anything goes and you have to keep your mouth shut not to offend the sensibilities of others.  Definitely continue to pray on it.


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## AnnDriena_ (Feb 23, 2005)

Thank you pebbles, I'm so in love with you now I'm in danger of worshipping you   


I'm glad somebody finally pointed that out. And to further explain the judgement thing my pastor was talking about how some of the things in the bible get translated into english with the best english words available and sometimes semantics can wreak havoc on translations.
      On the translation. When it was translated in the Greek that verse means you can’t damn someone to hell or you to will be damned. The better translation would be condemn not lest ye be condemned also. Can you imagine if we never judged anyone what kind of crap we’d walk into?  That verse is also almost always taken out of context by whomever uses it. One lady was on the Ricki Lake show and she was dating a guy in prison whom she started writing two even though she knew he was in for having sex with a 15 year old and she had a 12 year old daughter and she of course threw out the “Judge not lest ye be judged also”. I rolled my eyes so hard I thought they were going to fall on the floor. 

     Very rarely does anyone pay attention to the next verse which says _do not say to your brother let me take the plank out of your eye, while you have a beam in yours’_.  That should tell people not to be hypocritical in their judging but to be fair, like you just pointed out. I’m so glad I’m not crazy or alone when I hear people throwing around the hypocrite card when you clearly see something wrong. I first experienced that on this board with one of my first posts last year when I asked how Beyonce can diss girls who dress in skimpy clothes and then turn around and wear the same things herself. You’d think I’d just exposed a bunch of vampires to light the way these women acted. But I think it’s wrong to call someone nasty, trashy, classless and then turn around and do the same and call yourself classy and sexy. That's hypocrisy but if the word of God and your personal judgement based on His word tells you it's wrong. You can try all you want but the word of God wins out.


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## Poohbear (Feb 23, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> I was reading through a series of articles this morning, (not unusual for me ) when I came across this article by Hank Hanegraaff. Often times I've heard that as a Christian, I'm not doing the right thing by being intolerant and judgemental about the beliefs of others. I've often wondered where that came from because nowhere in the bible does God ever teach us to be tolerant of other religions. In fact, the opposite is true. Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe that all religions lead to the one true God...  Anyway, I just wanted to post it for those of you who might be interested in reading it. Be blessed, sisters.


I agree with what you have said! I feel the exact same way as your pebbles! How can a God-believing religion lead to the one true God if they do not accept His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit??? I believe being judgemental means when you determine if a person is going to Hell or not. That's something no one knows. Let's say there is a lost person in this world, we can't say he's going to Hell because we don't know if he'll accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior before dying. But there's nothing wrong with saying, "If you do _not _believe with your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, then you will spend eternity in Hell after death". That's different. Nor can we say people are going to Hell because of certain sins. As long as they are Christians and ask for forgiveness and repent of their sins, they are still in good standing with God. Expressing Christian beliefs and being intolerant of others isn't wrong. That's what God wants us to do...to spread the good news of His Word.  We're not being unloving like most people of this world think...we're actually showing love by caring enough to tell them about Jesus and how to live a Christian life.


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## AnnDriena_ (Feb 23, 2005)

Thank you. This tolerance thing has gotten out of hand. The world is tolerant of everything except intolerance. Now that's not very tolerant is it  (yes, I do confuse even myself sometimes)


But think about it, would you tolerate your child cussing you out and slapping you in the face? That's an extreme example but you get into ridiculous semantics like that when you start listening to this world because of course they would say no but with their ideology and the way the world goes from one "truth" to another you wouldn't know what to be tolerant of. And they love to try and rip on God, Christianity and the Bible for not being flexible and not changing. But I tell you what, I'd want to live by rules and tenants that never change than by a world that's just bowing to the latest craze. Remember when it was alright to give your kids a swat on the but for smart talking the teacher. Well no more, there is an article in TIME magazine titled WHAT TEACHERS HATE ABOUT PARENTS and that's one of their pet peeves. I of course don't think teachers should be hitting other peoples kids but you should read about the threats these teachers have gotten from parents of lazy and misbehaved children they've had to put out of their class. This is a 180 from a time when teachers were to be respected. Now the parents don't even respect. But oh well, knowing the way this world works the wind should be blowing the other way and teachers might get some more respect. You know, until the wind blows the other way again


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## Honeyhips (Feb 23, 2005)

I just love how you have people who call themselves Christians and get so judgemental on what someone is doing, yet turn around they are dogging, and trash talking what someone looks like, what they are wearing, and etc.  There is a scripture in the bible about that as well.  Or that they are so self righteous and pious they can't see someone else point of view, or understand that they might not be where they are spirtually.  We have to admit that they are out there. 

One thing that I think Christians have to understand is that God gave people a choice, so while I may thing Sex and Homosexuality is wrong, the next person doesn't, and I have to respect his beliefs. It does not mean that I am letting it go, think that it is right or that God's law still doesn't stand or apply.  But I'm not going to continue to throw certain scriptures in their face, especially if they've heard it and still don't believe it.  In my household certain things will not be tolerated at all, but I can't go to my neighbors house and demand that she do the same thing. If someone is misreprsenting God, I'll stand up, but if they don't believe, I try to find out why, or let it go.  I think you win those kinds of people to Christ through prayer and love.  Eventually you can let them know that the live they are living will live them empty and void.


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## Kalani (Feb 23, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> Thank you pebbles, I'm so in love with you now I'm in danger of worshipping you
> 
> 
> I'm glad somebody finally pointed that out. And to further explain the judgement thing my pastor was talking about how some of the things in the bible get translated into english with the best english words available and sometimes semantics can wreak havoc on translations.
> ...




 [email protected] vampires to light analogy. Its true though! I remember that thread. I tried to chime in my agreement and things just got more hostile!


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## Poohbear (Feb 23, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I just love how you have people who call themselves Christians and get so judgemental on what someone is doing, yet turn around they are dogging, and trash talking what someone looks like, what they are wearing, and etc. There is a scripture in the bible about that as well. Or that they are so self righteous and pious they can't see someone else point of view, or understand that they might not be where they are spirtually. We have to admit that they are out there.
> 
> One thing that I think Christians have to understand is that God gave people a choice, so while I may thing Sex and Homosexuality is wrong, the next person doesn't, and I have to respect his beliefs. It does not mean that I am letting it go, think that it is right or that God's law still doesn't stand or apply. But I'm not going to continue to throw certain scriptures in their face, especially if they've heard it and still don't believe it. In my household certain things will not be tolerated at all, but I can't go to my neighbors house and demand that she do the same thing. If someone is misreprsenting God, I'll stand up, but if they don't believe, I try to find out why, or let it go. I think you win those kinds of people to Christ through prayer and love. Eventually you can let them know that the live they are living will live them empty and void.


 
I _think_ I understand what you are saying... I can relate...

There are Christians out there that are judgmental. For example, I think my dad is that way about judging others yet he sees himself as "holier than thou" sometimes when he verbally abuses his family while being all happy-go-lucky to other people and gets on the phone and gossips about everyone in the church and he's the pastor of the church! He always denies that it's gossip (isn't getting involved in "he said/she said" and talking bad about people behind their back, gossip?) 
Anyway, my favorite cousins in Michigan are of the holiness denomination. They believe in accepting Christ when they get older. They feel they should accept Christ when they think they can live holy lives without as much sin that they commit when their young. Kinda strange but that's their belief. My dad would always try to push us to tell them all this stuff to them that they probably already heard before like "If you die tomorrow, you will go to Hell since you haven't accepted Jesus." But I'm not the type of person to bother someone like that about my beliefs when they differ, even though the Holiness church is a Christian denomination. 
My dad also tries to get me to evangelize with him and a group of people from church. They go around to people in the park to ask people if they are saved and they try to determine if they are saved or not based on what people say and they give them all these scriptures about being saved or not. I can't really go around and bother people in the park about things like that. It can be very touchy. I know it's our mission to share the word but I think there are other ways you can evangelize besides going around trying to force my beliefs on someone else. 
I'm somewhat of a Calvinist believing that God has already predetermined who is going to be saved or not. We can't control that. We could go up to someone and tell them so many times how if you're not saved, you're going to Hell and they still will not accept Jesus as their savior...they may later but no one person can force someone to accept the Lord.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I just love how you have people who call themselves Christians and get so judgemental on what someone is doing, yet turn around they are dogging, and trash talking what someone looks like, what they are wearing, and etc.  There is a scripture in the bible about that as well.  Or that they are so self righteous and pious they can't see someone else point of view, or understand that they might not be where they are spirtually.  We have to admit that they are out there.
> 
> One thing that I think Christians have to understand is that God gave people a choice, so while I may thing Sex and Homosexuality is wrong, the next person doesn't, and I have to respect his beliefs. It does not mean that I am letting it go, think that it is right or that God's law still doesn't stand or apply.  But I'm not going to continue to throw certain scriptures in their face, especially if they've heard it and still don't believe it.  In my household certain things will not be tolerated at all, but I can't go to my neighbors house and demand that she do the same thing. If someone is misreprsenting God, I'll stand up, but if they don't believe, I try to find out why, or let it go.  I think you win those kinds of people to Christ through prayer and love.  Eventually you can let them know that the live they are living will live them empty and void.


I don't know that I've read your post in the spirit that it was written, but just in case I have, let me just say that you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Correct me if I misunderstood what you were saying.

First, if someone is wearing something I find ugly, I can say that I find it tacky. That's not passing judgement, that's an opinion. There is a difference. Being a Christian does not mean that you have to sit back quietly with no comment or opinion about anything happening around you. 

Secondly, if you know something to be wrong, you should speak up. We KNOW that homosexuality goes against the word of God. So if someone is living the lifestyle, you can say to them, in love, that their lifestyle is not pleasing in the site of God, and you can give them scripture to back up what you're saying. Are you supposed to beat them up with it? No. Are you supposed to hate them because of their lifestyle? No. But if you see someone doing something that is not right, and you know it is but choose to say nothing, what do you think the Lord will ask you about your silence when you knew what the word said, and could have made a difference in that person's life? Just something to think about. . . 

Thirdly, my aim in posting this was really talking about different religions that have popped up, and the idea that Christians are supposed to be supportive of them all. I've been asked why, as a Christian, I'm not more tolerant and understanding of other religions. Where in scripture does that idea come from? Nowhere does God ever tell His people to "live and let live" when it comes to other gods and beliefs. I won't throw scripture at you, but there are more than ample passages in the bible that show that God was serious about His people not accepting or tolerating other beliefs contrary to His word.

Lastly, each person will stand at the judgement throne of Christ and answer for their deeds and actions. We are charged with spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ and the truth about what will happen to souls who do not accept Him as their Lord and Savior. I'm saddened that so many choose to mock the words of God rather than take a look at what the word says and consider that hell is a real place, and it's place they don't want to be in. So many people feel that hell is a hoax, and it's not. I would love to see a lot of the people that I love who don't believe, saved. 

Again, I don't beat people over the head with my beliefs. If someone asks me what I believe, I'll tell them. If they're into the occult and witchcraft or other things that go against what the bible says, I will tell them what God says about it, and if they want passages, I'll give it to them. What they do with it is on them, but at least, when the Father asks me if I warned the ones around me of their impending doom for not accepting Jesus, I'll be able to answer that I tried.


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## AnnDriena_ (Feb 23, 2005)

Thank you pebbles. Christian or not I don't find everything these entertainers wear to be lovely. I frankly find a lot of it just ugly and over the top or tacky or whatever. I'm not really as enamored and impressed with a lot of them so yes I would be one calling myself Christian and then "trash talking" celebrities. They don't impress me. Their "style" usually doesn't impress me. They don't even have "style" in my opinion. They have stylists. And often they need to fire those people . But yes I do turn around and call myself Christian because I am and that has nothing to do Mr/Miss Entertainer of the years bad weave and tacky clothes and or jewelry that I don't like. But I'll pray to God and ask him to make me like it more. Mayble that'll help.

And I witness to people but I don't consider it to be forcing something down their throats. But whenever it's religion someone is offering I've seen many people refer to it as forcing but when it's other things people are trying to offer I don't hear it refered to as forcing. In most music today there is this laizze faire (sp) approach to sex. Have it with anybody you want. Have it with someone else's spouse. Have it with underage boys/girls. And I have had conversations with radio dj's over it and they'll say *IN THE SAME CONVERSATION *
About the songs: We just put it out there. Not everybody has to follow it just because someone says it.
About me saying their are a lot of Christians who would like to hear more about a moral lifestyle: Well you can't FORCE your beliefs on everybody listening.

Why when I talk about the filth they are just_ putting it out there_ and there's nothing forced. But when you talk about morals the word _force_ seems to come out of their mouths right and left.

*Thirdly, my aim in posting this was really talking about different religions that have popped up, and the idea that Christians are supposed to be supportive of them all. I've been asked why, as a Christian, I'm not more tolerant and understanding of other religions. Where in scripture does that idea come from? Nowhere does God ever tell His people to "live and let live" when it comes to other gods and beliefs. I won't throw scripture at you, but there are more than ample passages in the bible that show that God was serious about His people not accepting or tolerating other beliefs contrary to His word.*


To get back on topic. You are right. It doesn't ask us to be tolerant of other views. I forget the exact scripture but when a prophet of God, probably Daniel but don't quote me on the name was in a contest with prophets hired by Bathesheba to see whose God was the greatest he was neither tolerant and some might say not even respectful.
When the prophet were hailing their gods to call down fire and they were dancing around and performing certain rituals Daniel said to them Maybe they should call a little louder , maybe your god is off relieving himself. Yes he made that joke about their god and then he called on God to rain down fire (the point of the contest) and God did it.


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## ms_kenesha (Feb 23, 2005)

*Matthew 7:1-5 (AMPLIFIED)*

1  DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.
2  For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.
3  Why do you stare from without at the very small particle that is in your brother's eye but do not become aware of and consider the beam of timber that is in your own eye?
4  Or how can you say to your brother, Let me get the tiny particle out of your eye, when there is the beam [d]of timber in your own eye?
5  You hypocrite, first get the beam of timber out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the tiny particle out of your brother's eye.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

The man you spoke of was Elijah, and yes, he did mock their false gods.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

ms_kenesha said:
			
		

> *Matthew 7:1-5 (AMPLIFIED)*
> 
> 1  DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.
> 2  For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.
> ...


Again, none of this applies to the tolerance of other gods and other beliefs other than that of the Almighty God. It's a biblical fact that God did not allow His people to just let any belief exist, and that *cannot* be disputed.


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## ms_kenesha (Feb 23, 2005)

I agree.  I think that those who are truly walking in the Christian walk cannot believe in anything, but Jesus Christ being the sole way/truth/light to salvation.  I wasn't disputing, just pointing out the whole scripture for those who didn't know the whole thing, it says nothing of other religions.  And the Bible says the only way to come to Him is through the Son.





			
				pebbles said:
			
		

> Again, none of this applies to the tolerance of other gods and other beliefs other than that of the Almighty God. It's a biblical fact that God did not allow His people to just let any belief exist, and that *cannot* be disputed.


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## Poohbear (Feb 23, 2005)

ms_kenesha said:
			
		

> I agree. I think that those who are truly walking in the Christian walk cannot believe in anything, but Jesus Christ being the sole way/truth/light to salvation. I wasn't disputing, just pointing out the whole scripture for those who didn't know the whole thing, it says nothing of other religions. And the Bible says the only way to come to Him is through the Son.


SO TRUE! Right on!


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## AnnDriena_ (Feb 23, 2005)

I think even among Christians the different versions of the bible sway our walk. 
The verses that kenesha posted from the Amplified version has extra wording than the original greek and hebrew and latin texts translated directly from the biblical scrolls written by the prophets themselves. 

My king james version says

 1Judge not, that ye be not judged. 

it didn't say anything about criticizing and condemning although *condemning* itself is the better word to actually replace judging. Because we are to judge. If not we would walk into all kinds of traps that common sense and good judgement keep us out of. But also what is key is how to judge and what measure to judge by. 
like for me which I think is the rub in this topic. If you call someone out for doing or saying something and then you do or say the same thing you'll be judged that way too. Someone else who is doing or saying the things that you are will judge you the same way. If you judge by unfair scales you will be judged by unfair scales.
Sorry to impart that .02 cents because that is not the topic of your post. It is the tolerance we are supposed to have by the worlds standards. But we are not to live by the worlds standards. And I think that's what people who try and call us "judgemental" as a bad word, are trying to get us to do. That will forever be a thorn in the foot of the argument people try to use about tolerance. I so often hear about tolerance in reference to the times and the times will always change and those who go by the times and live their lives by the times will change with the winds of the times but those who base their lives on Gods' principles will not. And that's viewed as bad by the world who'd rather just be swayed by the latest fancy thinking or shiny philosophy.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

ms_kenesha said:
			
		

> I agree.  I think that those who are truly walking in the Christian walk cannot believe in anything, but Jesus Christ being the sole way/truth/light to salvation.  I wasn't disputing, just pointing out the whole scripture for those who didn't know the whole thing, it says nothing of other religions.  And the Bible says the only way to come to Him is through the Son.



Oh, ok.


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## ms_kenesha (Feb 23, 2005)

Actually the Amplified has the original Greek & Hebrew that's why it's oftentimes longer than the KJV.  I have the AMP at home.

_When Your Knowledge of the Original Languages of the Bible Is Limited-and You Don't Want to Lose Anything in the Translation:  If you want to get all the rich nuances and shades of meaning of the original Bible languages, the Amplified Bible is for you. No knowledge of Greek or Hebrew is required-just a desire to know all that God says in his Word. With its unique system of brackets, parentheses and italics, the Amplified Bible defines and expands key words and phrases right in the text. Verse by verse, the full meaning of Scripture unfolds as you read. And this Bible features other study aids as well to help you clearly understand God's Word: • Footnotes-provide concise historical and archaeological information and devotional insights, plus hundreds of references to select sources and authors. • Book Introductions-tell you about the book's author, background, purpose, and themes. • Concordance-helps you find the location of verses (25,000 entries). • Bibliography and Glossary-give you a handy list of the sources cited in the study notes and the most frequent amplifications in the text._



			
				AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> I think even among Christians the different versions of the bible sway our walk.
> The verses that kenesha posted from the Amplified version has extra wording than the original greek and hebrew and latin texts translated directly from the biblical scrolls written by the prophets themselves.
> 
> My king james version says
> ...


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

ms_kenesha said:
			
		

> Actually the Amplified has the original Greek & Hebrew that's why it's oftentimes longer than the KJV.  I have the AMP at home.
> 
> _When Your Knowledge of the Original Languages of the Bible Is Limited-and You Don't Want to Lose Anything in the Translation:  If you want to get all the rich nuances and shades of meaning of the original Bible languages, the Amplified Bible is for you. No knowledge of Greek or Hebrew is required-just a desire to know all that God says in his Word. With its unique system of brackets, parentheses and italics, the Amplified Bible defines and expands key words and phrases right in the text. Verse by verse, the full meaning of Scripture unfolds as you read. And this Bible features other study aids as well to help you clearly understand God's Word: • Footnotes-provide concise historical and archaeological information and devotional insights, plus hundreds of references to select sources and authors. • Book Introductions-tell you about the book's author, background, purpose, and themes. • Concordance-helps you find the location of verses (25,000 entries). • Bibliography and Glossary-give you a handy list of the sources cited in the study notes and the most frequent amplifications in the text._




Completely off topic, but you want to know something funny? I was researching different translations and came across this article about all the bible translations aside from the KJV of 1611. You would not *believe* the things said about them. They call the NKJV the ultimate "bible harlot."  Yes, I couldn't believe it. I would post the article, but it's way too long, and I found it a bit upsetting. The 1611 version of the KJV is hard to read, (at least to me), and I'm thankful for other translations, or else it would be hard for me to get in the word.


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## ms_kenesha (Feb 23, 2005)

I've heard that the AMP is the best...what did they say about that one?





			
				pebbles said:
			
		

> Completely off topic, but you want to know something funny? I was researching different translations and came across this article about all the bible translations aside from the KJV of 1611. You would not *believe* the things said about them. They call the NKJV the ultimate "bible harlot."  Yes, I couldn't believe it. I would post the article, but it's way too long, and I found it a bit upsetting. The 1611 version of the KJV is hard to read, (at least to me), and I'm thankful for other translations, or else it would be hard for me to get in the word.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

I'd have to look it up because I don't have it in front of me, but in a nutshell, if you did not have the 1611 KJV of the bible, you were basically being led away from the true word of God.  Really, I don't agree, but hey, that's one person's opinion. Sorry for hijacking the thread!


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## AnnDriena_ (Feb 23, 2005)

I think they say that about this version because many don't agree with the politics of what was happening in his time.


Criticism is inherant in judgement. And we are to judge so I can't say that I could even follow a verse that told me not to judge and not to criticize in the same verse. That's why I believe the translation condemn not lest ye be condemned also.  

I have used my judgement and I'm better for it. And in that judgement there is the criticism of what I'm judging to be wrong and negative. That's the reason my judgement would tell me something isn't right. And calling something wrong and negative is in itself criticism but not condemning it. That's why I believe the king james version.


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## Honeyhips (Feb 23, 2005)

You and Andrienna missed my point, and if you two felt like I was talking directly to you, then you have to check yourself on that.  

Pebbles about my post.  

 It is more than just not liking what a celeb wears. It is about totally trashing that person. I don't recall naming celebs in my post, but we can use them as an example.   I may not like what someone has on or what they are doing but if I totally dog them, then yes there is a problem. I can't make you understand it better than that.  I think there are plenty of people who call themselves preaching against what is wrong, but will turn around and dog someone out, or mock them.  

Yes I will speak up when something is wrong, that isn't what I was referring to at all. I am NOT tolerant of homosexuality or fornication, or other religions.  But I respect that persons* right to choose *to live for God or not too.   I'm not going to go up to someone at my job who is not living right and start quoting scriptures.  I'm not going to always jump up and debate the word of God.  If God give me an opening I will walk take it.  I can sit next to people go on about the bible, but if God isn't telling me to talk, I'm not. If he isn't the one moving, then they aren't going to receive me.  I don't think by not doing so that I am condoning what they are doing.  I'm going to use my mother as an example, she doesn't go around preaching to people about the bible, but they know she is a Christian by the way she acts. They can see God through her.  That is what is important.  I'm also not going to debate with my Aunt and Uncle who are die hard muslims.  They probably know the bible better than I do.  I'd rather go at them through spirtual warfare.  What is the point in arguing someone down. Most gays and people who fornicate KNOW what the bible says, again probably better than I do.  I will make a difference in someones life in how I treat them.  I can be the Christian at my job who believes everyone is sinning adn won't go out to lunch with them b/c the bible says do not be unequally yoked.  Now I may think I am right, but they are perceiving me as being uppitty, and will not receive from me.  But if I learn to relate to them on some common ground, I can be a bettet witness.  

Being a Christian also means knowing when to speak and when not to.  Spirtual warfar is just as important as witnessing.  And you can witness to people with out going up to them and saying do you now you're going to hell, let me pray for you.  





			
				pebbles said:
			
		

> I don't know that I've read your post in the spirit that it was written, but just in case I have, let me just say that you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Correct me if I misunderstood what you were saying.
> 
> First, if someone is wearing something I find ugly, I can say that I find it tacky. That's not passing judgement, that's an opinion. There is a difference. Being a Christian does not mean that you have to sit back quietly with no comment or opinion about anything happening around you.
> 
> ...


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## Honeyhips (Feb 23, 2005)

then post the link to the article. 





			
				pebbles said:
			
		

> Completely off topic, but you want to know something funny? I was researching different translations and came across this article about all the bible translations aside from the KJV of 1611. You would not *believe* the things said about them. They call the NKJV the ultimate "bible harlot."  Yes, I couldn't believe it. I would post the article, but it's way too long, and I found it a bit upsetting. The 1611 version of the KJV is hard to read, (at least to me), and I'm thankful for other translations, or else it would be hard for me to get in the word.


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## AnnDriena_ (Feb 23, 2005)

I know what you  mean about relating to people on common ground but my discernment on that has kept me from ending up like too many of my foster brothers and sisters. I have been seen as uppity and I'm sure I will be in the future but there are certain behaviors that I have trouble with and don't want to put myself in a situation where I feel like I have to bite my tongue.  So my judgement has lead me to stay away from them and I think people will continue to see me as conceited regarding it.


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## Honeyhips (Feb 23, 2005)

AnnDriena_ said:
			
		

> Thank you pebbles. Christian or not I don't find everything these entertainers wear to be lovely. I frankly find a lot of it just ugly and over the top or tacky or whatever. I'm not really as enamored and impressed with a lot of them so yes I would be one calling myself Christian and then "trash talking" celebrities. They don't impress me. Their "style" usually doesn't impress me. They don't even have "style" in my opinion. They have stylists. And often they need to fire those people . But yes I do turn around and call myself Christian because I am and that has nothing to do Mr/Miss Entertainer of the years bad weave and tacky clothes and or jewelry that I don't like. But I'll pray to God and ask him to make me like it more. Mayble that'll help.


 Just b/c people might like so and so's makeup or an occasional outfit does not mean people are  enamored and impressed by them.  You can respect a person's talent without liking everything they do, say or wear.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> You and Andrienna missed my point, and if you two felt like I was talking directly to you, then you have to check yourself on that.
> 
> Pebbles about my post.
> 
> ...



I don't feel the need to "check myself" because I don't participate very much on the celebrity threads or talk about people much. You can do a search of my past posts to see that for yourself. And I didn't mention anything about celebrities. I was not attacking you, I was making a point of answering some of the things you brought up. I did say that if I was wrong to say so, but I don't see the need for you to come at me the way that you're doing. This is a Christianity forum, and if we don't agree on something, we can do so differently than others would do on the regular forum.

I never said anything about talking to people you don't know. I don't approach just anybody off the streets, I'm talking about people that we do know, and I said before, my original post was not talking about homosexuality  or anything of that nature, but rather the notion that Christians are to be tolerant of other beliefs that are contrary to the word of God. At any rate, my intention in posting this was to encourage those who feel they have to be tolerant of other beliefs, that the bible does not support such a notion.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> then post the link to the article.



I already stated that I wouldn't post it because it's too long, and I found the article annoying.


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## Honeyhips (Feb 23, 2005)

I said link, not article. 





			
				pebbles said:
			
		

> I already stated that I wouldn't post it because it's too long, and I found the article annoying.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

It's not an internet link, it's a written article.


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## Honeyhips (Feb 23, 2005)

I used homosexuality and fornication as *MY *examples.  I used witnessing to  strangers , coworkers and family (people I know) as *MY* examples. I NEVER called you out. I DIDN'T mention anything about the ENT board. I was talking in general terms in my first post. I said that if you felt I was talking about you or anyone else, then you and anyone else would have to check yourselves. Not me. Sorta kinda like if the shoe fits wear it.  I didn't feel attacked, just reexplainging my position, since you weren't sure if you received it in the right spirit or not. 



			
				pebbles said:
			
		

> I don't feel the need to "check myself" because I don't participate very much on the celebrity threads or talk about people much. You can do a search of my past posts to see that for yourself. And I didn't mention anything about celebrities. I was not attacking you, I was making a point of answering some of the things you brought up. I did say that if I was wrong to say so, but I don't see the need for you to come at me the way that you're doing. This is a Christianity forum, and if we don't agree on something, we can do so differently than others would do on the regular forum.
> 
> I never said anything about talking to people you don't know. I don't approach just anybody off the streets, I'm talking about people that we do know, and I said before, my original post was not talking about homosexuality or anything of that nature, but rather the notion that Christians are to be tolerant of other beliefs that are contrary to the word of God. At any rate, my intention in posting this was to encourage those who feel they have to be tolerant of other beliefs, that the bible does not support such a notion.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I used homosexuality and fornication as *MY *examples.  I used witnessing to  strangers , coworkers and family (people I know) as *MY* examples. I NEVER called you out. I DIDN'T mention anything about the ENT board. I was talking in general terms in my first post. I said that if you felt I was talking about you or anyone else, then you and anyone else would have to check yourselves. Not me. Sorta kinda like if the shoe fits wear it.  I didn't feel attacked, just reexplainging my position, since you weren't sure if you received it in the right spirit or not.



Yeah, I know what you were saying, and I did answer accordingly.


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## Honeyhips (Feb 23, 2005)

I don't think you did (understand what I was saying), but I'll leave it alone.  Or I just won't ever add a different opinion in a thread.  

You didn't explain that the article was not an internet article.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I don't think you did (understand what I was saying), but I'll leave it alone.  Or I just won't ever add a different opinion in a thread.


Come on, who asked this of you? It's not that serious. I don't think I ever said everyone had to agree with me. Anyway, I do think that we have to handle disagreements on this forum differently than on the other forums, so if I misunderstood you, my apologies.


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## pebbles (Feb 23, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> You didn't explain that the article was not an internet article.



No, I realize I didn't. I just mentioned that I read an article, but I didn't specify if it was a print or internet article.


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