# What harm is caused by legislation



## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

There are a bunch of Christians upset because of Obama's comment about gay marriage.


I am wondering why everyone is afraid for gay marriage to be legalized. The church will forever have the right to choose not to participate.

I am more afraid that they would take away religious freedoms, but in this case I think a law like this will protect our own rights as Christians in the future...


Anyways what are the thoughts on this? People keep telling me its a sin and its wrong and we can't support it. I understand that. So when we go to church, we reject the behavior there... Right? 

What are we afraid of here? Please share ladies.


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## LucieLoo12 (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> There are a bunch of Christians upset because of Obama's comment about gay marriage.
> 
> 
> I am wondering why everyone is afraid for gay marriage to be legalized. The church will forever have the right to choose not to participate.
> ...


 

We are not "afraid" of it being legalized. We are AGAINST it.It's abomination to God, it's a slapped in the face to God. 
 I don't understand how all other type of activist groups such as PETA, woman's rights, race rights, etc can be bold on what they stand on, and be praised, but when a Christians speaks about things that we believe in, we are are looked at as judgemental...

And as far as the church rejecting the behavior.......we should go to church to be freed from homosexaulity, not let it be condone there.We love the person, but we reject the sin of it. If anyone is going to a church where homosexuality is condone, they need to run.

What  I dont understand is Christians that are for homosexuality? How can we say love God ,but we love/agree with the things that God hates. Thats hyprocritcal...


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## Rainbow Dash (May 10, 2012)

We are called to be light and salt in the earth.  We are to stand for truth in God's eyes and not our own. Afraid?? We better fear God. God's judgement is on a nation that calls evil good and good evil. The ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrha approved and partook of this very thing and were destroyed. God's judgement is on a nation that turns it's back on God. This type of legislation does that very thing. 

We as the Church are not called to just sit in the church and be okay that others are lost. We are called to do the great commission. We are called to speak truth and life to the lost. We are called to snatch some out of the fire. What if no one told you the truth? What if they just said, "it's not my issue?"  What about eternity? What about souls?  

Your religious freedoms will be taken anyway. It's in the word. That is already in the works if you have not been paying attention.


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

Alicialynn86 said:


> We are not "afraid" of it being legalized. We are AGAINST it.It's abomination to God, it's a slapped in the face to God.
> I don't understand how all other type of activist groups such as PETA, woman's rights, race rights, etc can be bold on what they stand on, and be praised, but when a Christians speaks about things that we believe in, we are are looked at as judgemental...
> 
> *And as far as the church rejecting the behavior.......we should go to church to be freed from homosexaulity, not let it be condone there.We love the person, but we reject the sin of it.* If anyone is going to a church where homosexuality is condone, they need to run.
> ...




I was referring to the fact that Churches have the right to say they will not marry gay people. My church chooses not to marry straight people so it would be almost hilarious if a someone tried same sex marriage at my church. I am wondering if anyone would even dare to try it at my church


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> We are called to be light and salt in the earth.  We are to stand for truth in God's eyes and not our own. Afraid?? We better fear God. God's judgement is on a nation that calls evil good and good evil. The ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrha approved and partook of this very thing and were destroyed. God's judgement is on a nation that turns it's back on God. This type of legislation does that very thing.
> 
> We as the Church are not called to just sit in the church and be okay that others are lost. We are called to do the great commission. We are called to speak truth and life to the lost. We are called to snatch some out of the fire. What if no one told you the truth? What if they just said, "it's not my issue?"  What about eternity? What about souls?
> 
> *Your religious freedoms will be taken anyway. It's in the word.* That is already in the works if you have not been paying attention.



Yeah, we know this already.

I am saying though, do you guys think that God will start throwing asteroids at Capitol Hill next week? I'm not saying that to be funny I am just wondering why we get so wrapped up in this one issue. I understand taking a stand... my church did it and I was right there with them. But when I get up in the morning I'm more worried about whether I will be able to have enough money to raise a family.


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## LucieLoo12 (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> I was referring to the fact that Churches have the right to say they will not marry gay people. My church chooses not to marry straight people so it would be almost hilarious if a someone tried same sex marriage at my church. I am wondering if anyone would even dare to try it at my church


 






SummerSolstice said:


> Yeah, we know this already.
> 
> I am saying though, do you guys think that God will start throwing asteroids at Capitol Hill next week? I'm not saying that to be funny I am just wondering why we get so wrapped up in this one issue. I understand taking a stand... my church did it and I was right there with them. But when I get up in the morning I'm more worried about whether I will be able to have enough money to raise a family.


 
Judgement is in the hands of the Lord, so we don't know what He will do. The bible speaks about how in the last day it will get even worse than it was in Sodom and Gomorrah, so you havent seen nothing yet. This is just the beginning. Scriptures must be fulfilled.

And it's not about being wrapped up in one issue, it's about not taking this I dont care attitude with it.We should care. Somebody got to blow the trumpet to let people know this isn't acceptable.People got to see everyone does not feel this way, and God is not pleased.

For example the Trayvon murder case. You had people rallying everywhere for that boy...millions. Some may think, well its just one murder. But it sends a message to everyone that this behavior is not acceptable.


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## auparavant (May 10, 2012)

Why not call it something else other than marriage? I agree they should get benefits and life insurance etc. with their partners. They should be afforded every single RIGHT we have...but men go to the men's restroom and women go to theirs...and the unisex family restroom is "one-at-a-time." We pretend that marriage is not between two fo the opposite sex. It's a different thing. I'm for rights...but not the right to infringe upon something else that is socially and morally established since time immemorial. Call it something else and make it your own where there is no confusion. I want folks to come up with a specialized term for it. Our catholic church will never ordain female priests and neither will it "marry" two of the same sex. Does that mean we agree with discrimination against those who want to be "priests" and those who want legal protection while living with their partners of the same sex? No, but you can't do that here...find your rightful space.  But don't infringe upon what we teach in our church. Well, that's my take on it and I'm pretty darned liberal.


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## aribell (May 10, 2012)

In general, I believe that people have the right to order their affairs however they choose.  Meaning that if you want to have all your possessions in common with someone--whoever that is--you should be able to do so.  I think that if you are sick, you should be able to have whomever you want at your bedside, regardless of family relationship.  I have a libertarian streak and in that sense, I don't believe that the government needs to recognize "marriage" at all.  *However* insofar as the government *is *going to recognize marriage legally, I am not going to support redefining it because that does not accord with my understanding of what marriage is.

Legislation is huge culturally.  What becomes legal is what the next generation embraces culturally.  That's why it's being pushed so hard.  If it weren't a big deal, people would not be elated and in tears because of Obama's statement.

Is this the same as interracial marriage?  Nope.  Race is an irrelevant concept when it comes down to it.  It has little significance biologically and political attempts to define by race have always been about power plays to oppress or elevate one group over another.  Racial distinctions come into play politically and socially in order to separate and marginalize.  The fact that marriage has been understood as between a man and a woman has never had anything whatsoever to do with gay people or homosexuality in general.


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## Poohbear (May 10, 2012)

The harm is more and more acceptance of all types of sin...

We already have divorce and abortion legalized... what's next?

It's okay to murder someone if they make you angry?

It's okay to steal from the store if you don't have the money?

What other excuses for sin will we have legalized or the laws wiped out?


_(^^^not questions to be answered, just rhethorical questions to think about...)_


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle  that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what Poohbear said). 
This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues. 

I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."


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## LucieLoo12 (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle  that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what @Poohbear said).
> This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.
> 
> *I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it.*"


 

What do mean? Like what to do about it?


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## Shimmie (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle  that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what Poohbear said).
> 
> This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.
> 
> *I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue* more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."



  Makes sense


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## Rainbow Dash (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle  that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what @Poohbear said).
> This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. *Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues*.
> 
> I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."


 

Who says we are not helping one another with personal issues?  This is why we come together and minister to one another. We have missionaries all throughout the world. We give/donate to the needy. Even on this forum we have a prayer line where we pray for personal issues and speak words of encouragement. And while we are doing all of this we can still stand up for what is right.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle  that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what @Poohbear said).
> This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.
> 
> *I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it*."


 
Here is a research article on the implications of homosexulity gathered by Family Resources Council.

http://networkedblogs.com/xlvzB


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## loolalooh (May 10, 2012)

I don't know about everyone else, but in addition to what some have said, I'm *also* shaking my head that Obama, who *says* he is Christian, is not standing on the Word of God.  He's "selling out" for votes.


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## Laela (May 10, 2012)

There is indeed social/economic impact on everyone else. One legal advantage that gays get in marriage that rubs me the wrong way is the ability to have dual status for taxes - they can file as married filing together or separately AND as single or head of households, which can give them tax advantage over every one... that's really wrong..they either are single or married. Heterosexual married cannot file as single or head of household... 

Then, there is health insurance...the biggest costs for health insurers is AIDS and AIDS treatment (I'm very well aware not only gays have AIDS - but the CDC says gays and bisexuals account for the highest number of new infections)...when the pool of dollars are going toward expensive treatments, there leaves little less for everyone else for care AND it increases our health costs, because insurers then have to pass the costs to the insureds.

A heterosexual couple can't get health coverage for fertility treatment to have children, but an insurer must spend hundreds of thousands to treat a patient with AIDs/HIV. Um, where they getting all that money from?

US 





SummerSolstice said:


> I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."


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## CoilyFields (May 10, 2012)

The salt of the earth is called to "preserve" it. We are to manifest and preserve God's will on this earth. No matter how the world says its ok. So it our DUTY to support things that support God's word and to reject things that reject his word. I've said it once and Ill say it again...we CANNOT COMPARTMENTALIZE our CHristianity. We better be trying to influence everything and everybody around us to accept and be in the will of God. And in America we are given the legal right to vote and we best use it to further God's kingdom...not satans. We cannot "not care" what others do...we should not support an "anything goes/you like it I love it" society. 

 We already know that God has punished whole nations for their sins...we also know that he searched the earth for someone to STAND in the gap for a nation before he destroyed it...but he Couldnt find one. Now that right there is a shame...

I also support the point that what becomes legal will soon be accepted culturally.


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

Laela said:


> There is indeed social/economic impact on everyone else. One legal advantage that gays get in marriage that rubs me the wrong way is the ability to have dual status for taxes - they can file as married filing together or separately AND as single or head of households, which can give them tax advantage over every one... that's really wrong..they either are single or married. Heterosexual married cannot file as single or head of household...
> 
> Then, there is health insurance...the biggest costs for health insurers is AIDS and AIDS treatment* (I'm very well aware not only gays have AIDS - but the CDC says gays and bisexuals account for the highest number of new infections)*...when the pool of dollars are going toward expensive treatments, there leaves little less for everyone else for care AND it increases our health costs, because insurers then have to pass the costs to the insureds.
> 
> ...



@Laela

THANK YOU!!!! Finally. I haven't had time to research this side of it but that is an excellent point.

ETA: The bolded... why are we often persuaded to just ignore this fact? Its a fact!!!!!!!!


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> Who says we are not helping one another with personal issues?  This is why we come together and minister to one another. We have missionaries all throughout the world. We give/donate to the needy. Even on this forum we have a prayer line where we pray for personal issues and speak words of encouragement. And while we are doing all of this we can still stand up for what is right.



Health&hair28 I think u may have misunderstood what I was saying... Basically I have observed more people who are willing to picket outside of abortion clinics or gather signatures to send to congress abt amendment 1... 
I've seen more people doing that than taking gay folks into their homes... being their friends... offering guidance the right way... I just don't see people doing the dirty work in that aspect.
There is an abortion clinic near my house and they were picketing and telling people they were going to hell...
I asked one of these fools "what are you doing to help these women"
She said... I'm gonna pray for them.

Do u see what I mean now?


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> The salt of the earth is called to "preserve" it. We are to manifest and preserve God's will on this earth. No matter how the world says its ok. So it our DUTY to support things that support God's word and to reject things that reject his word. I've said it once and Ill say it again...we CANNOT COMPARTMENTALIZE our CHristianity. We better be trying to influence everything and everybody around us to accept and be in the will of God. And in America we are given the legal right to vote and we best use it to further God's kingdom...not satans. We cannot "not care" what others do...we should not support an "anything goes/you like it I love it" society.
> 
> *We already know that God has punished whole nations for their sins...we also know that he searched the earth for someone to STAND in the gap for a nation before he destroyed it...but he Couldnt find one. Now that right there is a shame...
> 
> I also support the point that what becomes legal will soon be accepted culturally.*



I agree. Also I think we're missing out on the negative implications of a same sex parental unit. People aren't talking about that.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> @Health&hair28 I think u may have misunderstood what I was saying... Basically I have observed more people who are willing to picket outside of abortion clinics or gather signatures to send to congress abt amendment 1...
> I've seen more people doing that than taking gay folks into their homes... being their friends... offering guidance the right way... I just don't see people doing the dirty work in that aspect.
> There is an abortion clinic near my house and they were picketing and telling people they were going to hell...
> I asked one of these fools "what are you doing to help these women"
> ...


 

I see what you mean but you are not in every place. I know of Christians who volunteer in family planning clinics to help guide women who are pregnant and feel lost. They provide counseling and prayer. I also know of Christians who advocate for abused children who can't speak up for themselves. I know of ministries that reach out to homosexuals, especially the one who have been delivered from the lifestyle. This does not mean Christians can't stand up and advocate what they believe.

Why do people want Christians to be quiet while everyone voices their beliefs?


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## CelineB (May 10, 2012)

loolalooh said:


> I don't know about everyone else, but in addition to what some have said, I'm *also* shaking my head that Obama, who *says* he is Christian, is not standing on the Word of God. He's "selling out" for votes.


 
Well, he has just confirmed that he is not Christian. Jesus Christ is against homosexuality.


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## Poohbear (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle  that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what Poohbear said).
> This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. *Yes evil is taking over the world* but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.
> 
> I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."



Evil isn't taking over the world... It's just that we have the media highlighting evil more to the public eye. Evil has always been in this world ever since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden.


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## LovelyNaps26 (May 10, 2012)

maybe i wasn't surprised by this b/c i saw Obama as one who views the tenants of the Christian faith as valuable and culturally meaningful. You have a lot of leeway if you take that perspective. Then again, I kinda feel this way with most politicians.  I know many who view Christianity this way. I can think of several churches within walking distance that have the gay pride rainbow displayed outside of the building to indicate that homosexuality is welcome. For some, it's not a contradiction despite the fact that the Bible is pretty black and white. 

If I don't vote for Obama I will likely not vote at all, which is unfortunate but true


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## NewDayNewMe (May 10, 2012)

I just wanted to know why gay getting married ruffles so many feather. Is marriage only applicable to Christians? People have been getting married before Christ. Atheist, satanist, wickens and agnostics all get married. No one is making a law telling them they can not get married. 

How will making gay marriage legal entice more people to become gay? 
Again people have been gay B.C. You are either attracted to the same sex or you are not. Maybe gay marriage will allow more closeted gays to feel safer to come out but they are already gay on the inside and God judges not only the action but the heart, so gay marriage cannot make people gay. 

I also find it interesting that someone mentioned fertility treatments. I think is interesting that people find homosexuality so abominable but think that God is ok with man making babies in a Petri dish but I digress. 

I found it shocking to suggest that gay couples should be denied health coverage or HIV/AIDS treatment. Legalizing gay marriage will not increase the HIV/AIDS rate it will just increase the amount of people that are able to get coverage.   Should gay people with HIV/AIDS not get treatment and die? IMHO there is nothing Christ like about this. Did Jesus not heal the leper? 
I believe that Jesus is love and love is the only way to combat evil or hate. I try to always do unto others as I would have them do unto me. If I happened to awake tomorrow and find that homosexuals were the majority would I want them to make a law that prohibits me from marrying a man? If I awoke tomorrow and found that Islam was the prevailing religion would I want them to make laws telling me I have to be covered from head to toe because their God finds my style of dress abominable? This is America and the first amendment grants us freedom of religion. To make laws based on a particular religion limits the freedoms of those who are not believers in it. We are all granted certain inalienable rights from our creator among them the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. No one or one religious group (even my own) has the right to infringe on those rights.


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## Shimmie (May 10, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> The salt of the earth is called to "preserve" it. We are to manifest and preserve God's will on this earth. No matter how the world says its ok. So it our DUTY to support things that support God's word and to reject things that reject his word. I've said it once and Ill say it again...we CANNOT COMPARTMENTALIZE our CHristianity. We better be trying to influence everything and everybody around us to accept and be in the will of God. And in America we are given the legal right to vote and we best use it to further God's kingdom...not satans. We cannot "not care" what others do...we should not support an "anything goes/you like it I love it" society.
> 
> We already know that God has punished whole nations for their sins...we also know that he searched the earth for someone to STAND in the gap for a nation before he destroyed it...but he Couldnt find one. Now that right there is a shame...
> 
> *I also support the point that what becomes legal will soon be accepted culturally.  *



At the bolded...   Yes indeed.   Now, women get abortions like it's a hair appointment.   The first question one asks these days, "Are you going to 'keep' it ? "   Abortion has been accepted as the 'normal alternative'.      gays are banking (literally 'banking') upon this for their agenda.


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

Choisie said:


> *Well, he has just confirmed that he is not Christian.* Jesus Christ is against homosexuality.



Choisie thats not true. You're not God you can't really determine salvation. I say that with love btw. There are plenty of Christians who support things that Jesus does not. 
For instance... divorce... gluttony... etc. 
We can't run around saying who's a Christian and who is not... Lets leave that to our savior to decide. The weight of that decision is quite heavy and I'm sure none of us would REALLY want to carry it. I believe a cross was about 300 lbs back then...


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## Laela (May 10, 2012)

*Genesis 1*
_1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning —the first day._



God was there before 'marriage'


Not everyone on earth believes marriage is between an man and a woman; but of course, not everyone on earth believes God, in God or that there is a God. But there is. The only way the naysayers will find out for sure is to just DIE without believing.







NewDayNewMe said:


> I just wanted to know why gay getting married ruffles so many feather. Is marriage only applicable to Christians? People have been getting married before Christ. Atheist, satanist, wickens and agnostics all get married. No one is making a law telling them they can not get married.
> .


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

NewDayNewMe said:


> I just wanted to know why gay getting married ruffles so many feather. Is marriage only applicable to Christians? People have been getting married before Christ. Atheist, satanist, wickens and agnostics all get married. No one is making a law telling them they can not get married.
> 
> How will making gay marriage legal entice more people to become gay?
> Again people have been gay B.C. You are either attracted to the same sex or you are not. Maybe gay marriage will allow more closeted gays to feel safer to come out but they are already gay on the inside and God judges not only the action but the heart, so gay marriage cannot make people gay.
> ...



NewDayNewMe
I think u misunderstood... she was saying that the cost to treat HIV is extremely high, and the actions (gay sex) are being justified, when really the risky act is costing tax payers tons of money.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 10, 2012)

Romans 1 
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown _it_ to them

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Not understanding why Christians do not agree with God. But are willing to approve, justify things He disapproves of.


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> I see what you mean but you are not in every place. I know of Christians who volunteer in family planning clinics to help guide women who are pregnant and feel lost. They provide counseling and prayer. I also know of Christians who advocate for abused children who can't speak up for themselves. I know of ministries that reach out to homosexuals, especially the one who have been delivered from the lifestyle. This does not mean Christians can't stand up and advocate what they believe.
> 
> *Why do people want Christians to be quiet while everyone voices their beliefs?*




Health&hair28
I don't want us to be quiet 
I'm a "loud" type of poster why would I want that?
I want us to do things properly though.
And thanks for posting about ministries. I realize there are people who do serve but I just think we could do better. We can always do better.


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## Laela (May 10, 2012)

Love you, sis... but evil is increasing, trying to win as many souls as it can. The Bible is clear evil will increase, that is not to say we should be alarmed or fearful. It will happen, because God said it will happen. The saddest part is that Christians/churches have already become a form, without power by embracing evildoers and wickedness. (2 Timothy 3). 





Poohbear said:


> Evil isn't taking over the world... It's just that we have the media highlighting evil more to the public eye. Evil has always been in this world ever since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden.


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## Poohbear (May 10, 2012)

NewDayNewMe - I understand that people have been getting married before Christ, but were there men getting married to men back then? Were there women getting married to women back then?

Also, not sure about everyone else, but I personally do not see making gay marriage legal as enticing more people to become gay. I just think legalizing gay marriage will make the whole idea more acceptable and that is not a good thing in my opinion.

And I personally do not agree that gays should be denied treatment of HIV/AIDS. Anyone can get HIV/AIDS whether they are gay or not. So I think it's an extreme thing for people to say that (I know you didn't say this, I'm talking about whoever did say this). I also do not think legalizing gay marriage will increase HIV/AIDS.




NewDayNewMe said:


> I just wanted to know why gay getting married ruffles so many feather. Is marriage only applicable to Christians? *People have been getting married before Christ.* Atheist, satanist, wickens and agnostics all get married. No one is making a law telling them they can not get married.
> 
> *How will making gay marriage legal entice more people to become gay?*
> Again people have been gay B.C. You are either attracted to the same sex or you are not. Maybe gay marriage will allow more closeted gays to feel safer to come out but they are already gay on the inside and God judges not only the action but the heart, so gay marriage cannot make people gay.
> ...


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

loolalooh said:


> I don't know about everyone else, but in addition to what some have said, I'm *also* shaking my head that Obama, who *says* he is Christian, is not standing on the Word of God.  He's "selling out" for votes.



loolalooh I'm not sure that he is saying that he thinks its right. I think he is saying that he wants for all of us to have the same benefits. Marriage has a lot to do with finances and healthcare. I think if this was not the case then people wouldn't be so pressed to do it.


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## Poohbear (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> NewDayNewMe
> I think u misunderstood... she was saying that the cost to treat HIV is extremely high, and the actions (gay sex) are being justified, when really the risky act is costing tax payers tons of money.


SummerSolstice
But I think NewDayNewMe is also saying that gays aren't the only ones increasing the high cost to treat HIV/AIDS...there are heterosexuals doing so as well...unmarried AND married ones! There are cases where heterosexual fornication and adultery are being justified as well, not just homosexuality.


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

Poohbear said:


> @NewDayNewMe - I understand that people have been getting married before Christ, but were there men getting married to men back then? Were there women getting married to women back then?
> 
> Also, not sure about everyone else, but I personally do not see making gay marriage legal as enticing more people to become gay. *I just think legalizing gay marriage will make the whole idea more acceptable and that is not a good thing in my opinion.
> *
> And I personally do not agree that gays should be denied treatment of HIV/AIDS. Anyone can get HIV/AIDS whether they are gay or not. So I think it's an extreme thing for people to say that (I know you didn't say this, I'm talking about whoever did say this). I also do not think legalizing gay marriage will increase HIV/AIDS.



I agree

also I think @Laela was saying that *most* (not all) HIV/AIDS cases are in that community and are a result of anal sex. 
So basically our tax dollars are paying for the horrible consequences of the said sex acts.

ETA: I think stats are in the favor of this argument. but I will check the CDC website


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## NewDayNewMe (May 10, 2012)

Laela said:


> God was there before 'marriage'
> 
> 
> Not everyone on earth believes marriage is between an man and a woman; but of course, not everyone on earth believes God, in God or that there is a God. But there is. The only way the naysayers will find out for sure is to just DIE without believing.


 
I totally agreewith you but not everyone believes and that is their right. Salvation is a choice. The fact is whether gays get "married" or not they will still be gay. Also a bigger point, which I think a lot of Christians miss is that just because you don't sin (although everyone does in some way) does not mean you are saved. Salvation is about the heart and that is something only God can see and judge and I find him to be highly capable of doing that on his own without my assistance. Some people are going to let "gays" condemn them to hell not because they did or did not support gay marriage but because they have hate in their hearts and did not extend the love of Christ to everyone they came into contact with.


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## SummerSolstice (May 10, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> Romans 1
> 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown _it_ to them
> 
> 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
> ...




Health&hair28
Christians do this because they are humans just like everyone else. Nobody who walks this earth is going to be perfect and all we can do is try to help each other stay strong until the time comes for us to get out of here!

I used to (as a teenager) wear my Christianity like this badge of honor that made me better than everyone else and lets just say God has His ways of bringing you back to reality. 

I'm not saying this behavior is correct but people are people.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 10, 2012)

NewDayNewMe said:


> I totally agreewith you but not everyone believes and that is their right. Salvation is a choice. The fact is whether gays get "married" or not they will still be gay. Also a bigger point, which I think a lot of Christians miss is that just because you don't sin (although everyone does in some way) does not mean you are saved. Salvation is about the heart and that is something only God can see and judge and I find him to be highly capable of doing that on his own without my assistance. *Some people are going to let "gays" condemn them to hell not because they did or did not support gay marriage but because they have hate in their hearts and did not extend the love of Christ to everyone they came into contact with*.


 

If we really love people we will show love and tell them the truth. You are correct hatred is not of God but telling God's truth is not hatred. 

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery that He did not condemn her and *to go and sin no more*. He loved her enough to tell her to stop sinning. He knew that if she stayed in that lifestyle she would receive the eternal penalty.

Love is why He came and showed us the Way and gave us the power through Him to overcome sin and live right before Him. I mean, He did say "go into the highways compel them to come."


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## NewDayNewMe (May 10, 2012)

Poohbear said:


> @NewDayNewMe - I understand that people have been getting married before Christ, but were there men getting married to men back then? *Were there women getting married to women back then?*
> 
> Also, not sure about everyone else, but I personally do not see making gay marriage legal as enticing more people to become gay. *I just think legalizing gay marriage will make the whole idea more acceptable and that is not a good thing in my opinion.*
> 
> And I personally do not agree that gays should be denied treatment of HIV/AIDS. Anyone can get HIV/AIDS whether they are gay or not. So I think it's an extreme thing for people to say that (I know you didn't say this, I'm talking about whoever did say this). I also do not think legalizing gay marriage will increase HIV/AIDS.


 
No I don't think same sexes were getting married back then. My point was that marriage is not exclusive to Christians all kinds of people get married for all kinds of reasons and no one is making a fuss about it. I just don't understand why there is so much vigor and passion about gay marriage in particular. To me it is a distraction from the more pressing work that we could be doing. 

Gay people are going to be gay whether they do it in the closet or in the open. If we created an environment where they could be free to be themselves maybe there would not be so many men on the down low infecting their wives with HIV. The bottom line is everyone needs to fear God not me or you (not you in particular). As my mama told me I don't have no hell to put nobody in or a heaven to keep them out of.


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## CelineB (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> @Choisie thats not true. You're not God you can't really determine salvation. I say that with love btw. There are plenty of Christians who support things that Jesus does not.
> For instance... divorce... gluttony... etc.
> We can't run around saying who's a Christian and who is not... Lets leave that to our savior to decide. The weight of that decision is quite heavy and I'm sure none of us would REALLY want to carry it. I believe a cross was about 300 lbs back then...


 SummerSolstice,
I am not talking about salvation. I just think that as christian, Obama has to stand for the Word of God. We all know what God thinks about Homosexuality and marriage. Rom. 1: 26-27 or Lev18: 22.
We cannot say we are christians and not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. We are for Christ or we are not. 
Also you cannot compare divorce and homesexuality. God does not like divorce but he allows divorce in case of sexual immorality.
I am not judging anybody. We are all sinners. But if us christians cannot stand for what is clearly stated in the Bible then we are lying to ourselves. 
Obama is clearly choosing the votes against his christian believes. 

Speaking of salvation :Cor 6:9-11.


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## CoilyFields (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> I agree. Also I think we're missing out on the negative implications of a same sex parental unit. People aren't talking about that.


 
I totally understand what you mean about the negative outcomes etc. But...I try to make sure that my number one promotion is of God's word...for the sake of His word...not because of statistics that may support it being negative. Because in 10 years...these stats may change...or what about sins that have no measured statistics to show them being wrong? Know what I mean?

With my teen class I always emphasize they should not fornicate because God ordained sex for marriage. Period. THEN I will talk about some of the negative consequences of fornication (pregnancy, stds etc. ) becuase they all think that they will be the exception to the rule and even if they never get pregnant or an std...its still wrong!

So I think having stats to show just how misguided a sin is is good, and we should be aware like you said...but just dont make it our foundation (not that you said it was...I'm just saying )


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## dicapr (May 10, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> @loolalooh I'm not sure that he is saying that he thinks its right. I think he is saying that he wants for all of us to have the same benefits. Marriage has a lot to do with finances and healthcare. I think if this was not the case then people wouldn't be so pressed to do it.


 

I think you have hit the heart of the matter.  Supporting their rights under freedom of religon does not equal the belief that their personal decision is morally right. If you see them as two separate issues then you are not a christian.  You can believe that something is morally wrong but make the decsion not to deprive someone else the ability to make that decision for themselves.


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## dicapr (May 10, 2012)

Choisie said:


> @SummerSolstice,
> I am not talking about salvation. I just think that as christian, Obama has to stand for the Word of God. We all know what God thinks about Homosexuality and marriage. Rom. 1: 26-27 or Lev18: 22.
> We cannot say we are christians and not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. We are for Christ or we are not.
> Also you cannot compare divorce and homesexuality. God does not like divorce but he allows divorce in case of sexual immorality.
> ...


 
Not all Christian denominations preach that homosexuality is a sin.  He may not be going against his personal beliefs.


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## CoilyFields (May 11, 2012)

dicapr said:


> I think you have hit the heart of the matter. Supporting their rights under freedom of religon does not equal the belief that their personal decision is morally right. If you see them as two separate issues then you are not a christian. You can believe that something is morally wrong but make the decsion not to deprive someone else the ability to make that decision for themselves.


 
I get what you're saying but if that was always the case how are we then the "salt" of the earth. If you don't vote according to the word of God, how do you vote? Becuase wouldn't that then be promoting an "anything goes" society? Do you not believe there should be rules? Should I, as a Christian, vote for abortion? becuase somebody else thinks its right even if I dont? Should I vote for porn to be shown in school in sex education because someone else thinks its morally ok? I Know these are random examples but shouldn't my first priority be to preserve and advance the word of God?

I do not believe that legalizing gay marriage will cause more people to be gay. I dont oppose it because of Healthcare issues or taxes. It is wrong because GOD instituted marriage between one man and one woman. And since America grants us the right to lend our influence on certain decisions...why wouldnt I vote according to my conscience (which is based on the word of God)...because they surely will.


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## dicapr (May 11, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> I get what you're saying but if that was always the case how are we then the "salt" of the earth. If you don't vote according to the word of God, how do you vote? Becuase wouldn't that then be promoting an "anything goes" society? Do you not believe there should be rules? Should I, as a Christian, vote for abortion? becuase somebody else thinks its right even if I dont? Should I vote for porn to be shown in school in sex education because someone else thinks its morally ok? I Know these are random examples but shouldn't my first priority be to preserve and advance the word of God?
> 
> I do not believe that legalizing gay marriage will cause more people to be gay. I dont oppose it because of Healthcare issues or taxes. It is wrong because GOD instituted marriage between one man and one woman. And since America grants us the right to lend our influence on certain decisions...why wouldnt I vote according to my conscience (which is based on the word of God)...because they surely will.


 

Freedom to practice your religion means that everyone should have that same right.  I don't want someone else enforcing their religous beliefs on me just because they are the majority-why would I do it to someone else? Marriage in this debate is not the same marriage as outlined in the bible.  They are asking for legal recognition of a partnership and the legal benefits that go along with it.  Should we deny all who do not adhere to Christianity, Judism, or Islam marriage in this country because they are not entering a convinent of the same God we all worship? I actually like the European model.  Civil ceremonies for everyone with those who wish to have a religious ceremony doing so separate from the church.  

I do take a moral stand in my personal life and my church.  I don't think it is my job to force anyone to live the life I have been called to. Conversion is my job as a Chrisitian, not enforcer.


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## lilanie (May 11, 2012)

auparavant said:


> *Why not call it something else other than marriage?* I agree they should get benefits and life insurance etc. with their partners. They should be afforded every single RIGHT we have...but men go to the men's restroom and women go to theirs...and the unisex family restroom is "one-at-a-time." We pretend that marriage is not between two fo the opposite sex. It's a different thing. I'm for rights...but not the right to infringe upon something else that is socially and morally established since time immemorial. *Call it something else and make it your own where there is no confusion.* I want folks to come up with a specialized term for it. Our catholic church will never ordain female priests and neither will it "marry" two of the same sex. Does that mean we agree with discrimination against those who want to be "priests" and those who want legal protection while living with their partners of the same sex? No, but you can't do that here...find your rightful space.  But don't infringe upon what we teach in our church. Well, that's my take on it and I'm pretty darned liberal.




That is how I feel... It's like Girls in Boy Scouts/Boys in Girl Scouts/White Women being counted as minorities...

Enough is enough!

Just because life will be better for me if i walked around saying I'm white (obviously couldn't pull that mess in person) ~ doesn't mean I should... It means I should let God fight my battles, and if it is HIS will that I get my way, then I get my way... If not, I can sit down somewhere and shutup.

And dont start that _*gay is just like black*_ foolishness ~ unless you're the actress from _Imitation of Life_, if you are gay, no one has to know you are (if your life depends on it) a mile away.  Not the same for me.


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## Shimmie (May 11, 2012)

lilanie said:


> That is how I feel... It's like Girls in Boy Scouts/Boys in Girl Scouts/White Women being counted as minorities...
> 
> *Enough is enough!*
> 
> ...



lilanie... 

I was just headed downstairs to begin my laudrry 'early' to free up my weekend.  But Lady, I had to stop.... I mean STOP and reply to your post and thank you for speaking the truth.  

Prostituting the Black experience by calling the gay agenda equal to it...  what an insult!   There have been white gays all the way back in time, who were well known and yet they prospered and no one called them out or even cared.   

They flourished in the fashion world, in the Arts, the movie industry and folks loved and respected and supported them for white could do no wrong.     However Blacks were still stepped and walked upon and were given the crumbs that fell from their mouths rather than due honour and respect.   

No one burned them at the stake as they did Blacks nor hung them as 'strange fruit' swinging from branches of trees.   

Someone shared in an earlier post (in one of these threads) that Blacks are helping other groups and not themselves.   And it's only to further push Blacks back in the back.  No matter how far the gay agenda may go (_and it won't be but so far_), it will never be to the advantage nor the advancement of African Americans.   

I've had it with gays 'pimping' and downplaying the Black experience.   It's beyond insulting.  

I find it so very interesting that they haven't compared their 'suffering' to that of the Jewish people who lost their lives during the Holocaust.  At least I haven't heard nor read them of them 'pimping' that experience as they have been pimping ours.     All I hear is how they compare to Blacks and I will not be downgraded as such.


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## NaturallySweet73 (May 12, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> @Choisie thats not true. You're not God you can't really determine salvation. I say that with love btw. There are plenty of Christians who support things that Jesus does not.
> For instance... divorce... gluttony... etc.
> We can't run around saying who's a Christian and who is not... Lets leave that to our savior to decide. The weight of that decision is quite heavy and I'm sure none of us would REALLY want to carry it. I believe a cross was about 300 lbs back then...



I have not gotten to the rest of this thread so far, but i have to respond.  And just keep in mind I say this in love, but...............Matthew 7:16 says that by a persons fruits we shall know them.  So, Obama can say that he is a Christian all day but his fruit say something else.  

How does this man, who says that he is  a believer in the Savior, have a 100% voting record for Planned Parenthood (the enemy of the black community I might add) when a senator in Illinois.  

That was enough for me to determine what team he was batting for.  I'm not shocked at his new turn at all either!!!! 1 John 3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.  To support murder is clearly a sin!


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## Shimmie (May 12, 2012)

NaturallySweet73 said:


> I have not gotten to the rest of this thread so far, but i have to respond.  And just keep in mind I say this in love, but................
> 
> *Matthew 7:16 says that by a persons fruits we shall know them.  So, Obama can say that he is a Christian all day but his fruit say something else.  *
> 
> ...


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