# G Craig Lewis new blog about November Election



## saved06 (Oct 28, 2008)

As I read this, it began to make sense. Just curious on your views after reading this. I'm pretty much torn because he brought up what I've been avoiding to deal with. Link may not show but go to main website for youtube video. Please share in a mature manner:
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*Monday, October 27, 2008*

*Vote Black? *





The 2008 Hip Hop Awards came on the other day and it proved one thing to me. Some black folks will be dumb until Jesus comes back! How can anyone look at pimps, thugs, and gangsters as a good thing that needs to be celebrated? How did Hip Hop become the voice of our youth to the point that the black church is bending over backwards for it's acceptance? This is a shame. But one thing that they did on this show that really got me going was the push for a "black" vote in the election. Not knowing the issues at hand, but yet and still, they constantly pushed the young folks and HIp Hop fans to "vote black" this election.

How embarrassing! These folks undid everything that Dr. Martin Luther King dreamed of in one dumb hour! They took apart his dream and the civil rights movement by pointing to the black candidate as the mandatory vote of black people. This is sad. Martin Luther King said that he dreamed of the day when people would not be judged by the color of their skin, but the content of their character! How can you say, "vote black" and not go against that dream? Just because an african man mixed with white is running does not mean he is the right choice or the only choice for black people. We are moving to the back of the bus again and we don't even see it. As far as straight politics goes, Blacks are the only race of people that are not bipartisan. We have been conditioned to be on one side and never split our vote. Other races and ethnic groups including, hispanics, catholics, and jews put people on both sides of the ticket for leverage and a voice no matter how the pendulum swings. But blacks stay at the back of the bus and don't spread out so when we lose, we lose our voice and power. That's slave mentality. 

Our freedom to vote is our right to vote that was fought for by many civil rights leaders in the past. This is the right to vote either way, republican or democrat, and most importantly, it is our right to NOT vote at all if we don't feel that either candidate deserves our support. We have corrupted the freedom of voting so much these days that people don't even know the issues at hand and they are just voting the color of their skin or what pop culture is dictating to them. I'm sorry folks, but we can't stay on this road. This is the road that leads to the accepting of the mark of the beast. This is the road that hides the truth and promotes the lie. This road will get you voting for economics rather than morality. And that's the road that will lead to the antichrist! The bible said that in the end, you will not be able to buy or sell unless you pledge your allegiance to the beast! Buy or sell? That's economics. Thats money! And if you are voting for economic reasons and not considering morality or your own convictions, then you are essentially doing exactly what the bible predicts will happen in the end. People will begin to vote in the man that will lead us to the antichrist and the end. They will vote this man in based on economic issues and popularity. He will be voted in because of the financial crisis of the government and people will not even consider his true moral ethics. Black Christian leaders have totally abandoned the bible in this election. They have chosen culture over Christ and have accepted the 3 things that the antichrist will implement in his rule. Abortion, Homosexuality, and the silencing of the truth! These things are on the table and being ignored because of the color of a man's skin? 



Muhammad Ali faced the challenge of not fighting in an American war because it went against his religious convictions. He became an African American hero because of it. With that said, if you do not feel that either candidate in this race fits your conviction, then you are obligated to NOT vote at all. I know black people go crazy when you talk like this and they bring up all the slaves that died and the folks that fought for your right to vote. Yet in that same breath, they don't think of the millions that have died of AIDS through homosexual activity, the millions of lives that are not here because of abortion, nor do they consider the millions that are deceived because the church is silent on moral issues! 

Sure many fought and died for the right to vote. But that fight was not just for a right to vote, but a right to chose to vote. After all, if we are forced to vote, we didn't have a right to not vote and thus we are still bound and not free. And if you don't have a choice that is comfortable or in line with your convictions, then what do you do? Pick the lesser of 2 evils? Or pick the black man because you are black? God forbid! I will not be guilty of ushering in the antichrists policies because a man is of color! I am not practicing to receive the mark of the beast. And if you are voting against your own beliefs and bible for the sake of money, color, or party biases, then you have just passed the mark of the beast test. You have just proven that socialistic reasons supersede your spiritual convictions! And this is exactly what the antichrist will do. He will exalt himself above God and make his immoral beliefs acceptable by all. And without question we see that Barack Obama has caused preachers and pastors, great and small, to follow him in spite of his antichrist morals. Abortion, homosexuality, and the silencing of the church are on his ticket and yet black church folks don't care. The very things that are killing us as a people are the very things that we are in favor of. The scariest part is that this is just rehearsal for the coming rule of the antichrist and the black church has lined up on the wrong side! I'm not saying that McCain is the answer, but I'm saying that if you are voting, your convictions as a believer in the bible should out weigh every thing else. 



How did we get here? Why are we ignoring the obvious here? The money problems America is having is just a prelude to the coming of the one world government and the rule of the antichrist. That's why his policies are being tested here in America. I'm not calling Obama the antichrist, but I'm saying his policy is in line with the morality of the King of the East that will rise up and rule. Barack Obama plans to go into churches and demand that they accept the homosexual agenda. Michelle Obama even bragged at the gay and lesbian counsel of the Democratic National Convention about going into a black church and telling them to stop being homophobic and accept the gay agenda. You can hear it for yourself below.
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## saved06 (Oct 28, 2008)

Yet, the black church is so full of homosexual activity, it was a plan all along by the enemy to get these homosexual leaders of the black churches in power so that when this agenda comes through the White House, they would lead their flocks directly into it. God showed me 15 years ago that every major black pentecostal denomination would be lead by a homosexual before Jesus returns. And now, they are all in place and leading this nations black churches into the arms of the antichrist by pushing an agenda that is not of God. Barack even hired a gay pastor to travel with him and Donnie McClurkin to black churches and was welcomed with open arms. What is this? Isn't AIDS the number 1 killer of black people? Isn't abortion black genecide with 1400 performed every day in the black community? Wasn't the black church once the pillar of our community and the moral guide for our youth? Now, all of these things are being undone and reversed because of the antichrist agenda that is working behind the scenes. What a perfect setup!



Don't get me wrong. White people are as much to blame for the "vote black" mindset as blacks are. You see, if the white leaders of this nation had stood up for blacks in America and confessed their wrong treatment of us and repented openly about it, then healing could have taken place. They should have put our history in the white history books and they should have repented openly and made real atonement for the unjust treatment of our people a long time ago. You can't sweep 400 years of oppression under a rug and expect it to vanish. It's still there and it requires effort to correct more than just 1 month of the year. You see, racism is at the forefront of American politics now because it's been ignored and hidden for so many years. Don't get me wrong, I do feel that we have progressed some as a people, yet we have so many issues because we have not had proper healing from what happened to us. With that said, when the black man that was pushed to the back of the bus sees Obama, he sees justice. When the black woman that was called ****** all her young life sees Obama, she sees justice. When the preachers that saw the White churches prosper and the black churches shunned see Obama, they see justice. White people that are reading this will never understand what it feels like to be discriminated against because of color. They don't know what it feels like to be called an animal or less than human and treated like a reject! But blacks have experienced that and it's caused us to want justice on a grand scale. And to many, Barack Obama represents progress, justice, and atonement for our people. 

But, if his policy and his morality does not line up with the God we serve as true believers, then is it justice or is it a setup? Those of us that have been discriminated against and treated unfairly by whites because of our race need healing. And because this nation has not offered us a just version of healing or payed us just due, we are still hurting as a race of people. But isn't that what Jesus is all about? Wasn't he the savior of Israel when they were in bondage? Didn't he show himself mighty in their time of turmoil and unjust treatment? Isn't that when the power of God comes into play? Don't miss it people of God. Jesus, not Obama, is the real answer here and we must push him instead of a political system! We must stand on the word of God and not waver in this coming election. If you cast your vote for a man that is for the agenda of the antichrist, you have just passed the mark of the beast test and proven that you will accept the mark, even if it goes against your convictions as a believer and your bible that you read. Come on saints of God, stand up. Don't let anyone sway you here. It's late in the hour and Jesus is taking notes on where you stand. Your vote is your stand. And it would be better to not vote at all than to cast a vote for the very agenda that the antichrist will promote.

Rev. 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev. 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev. 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev. 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Looking for the rapture,
G. Craige Lewis


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## momi (Oct 28, 2008)

A resounding AMEN!  

I am not sure how I feel about not voting at all though...


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## saved06 (Oct 28, 2008)

Finally a brave soul lol. Yes, as much as I want to see Obama in, I'm asking myself am I looking at this through emotion or through the spirit. Satan does know how to play on emotions. My voters registration card got lost, so that slowed me down from voting, I'm going to continue to pray. I sure don't want Mccain. But then again, I think as far as the end time certain things have to happen, and there really isn't anything we can change because it was already written ya know. All we are responsible for as Christians is to recognize this time, preach the gospel, and not get caught up in worldly things while sustaining our faith and hope in Christ.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 28, 2008)

First, I am an informed voter and have voted in every presidential election I was eligible for since I was 18.  I don't think I have ever 100% agreed with any candidate I have ever voted for in my life.  

However, for me it is not acceptable to choose not to vote because I don't really like either candidate.  That is the irresponsible act of someone who wants to dump the responsibility of choosing our leadership onto others.  I wouldn't allow someone else to choose my church or my pastor for me and I will not allow someone else choose my country/state/local leadership for me. I think that is an irresponsible and ignorant suggestion.

This kind of rhetoric disturbs me greatly.  I don't see what's different from his tone and some sections of the right wing fundamentalist evangelicals who still believe African Americans are cursed descendents of Ham. 

IMO, none of it is representative of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.


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## Highly Favored8 (Oct 28, 2008)

saved06 said:


> Finally a brave soul lol. Yes, as much as I want to see Obama in, I'm asking myself am I looking at this through emotion or through the spirit. Satan does know how to play on emotions. My voters registration card got lost, so that slowed me down from voting, I'm going to continue to pray. I sure don't want Mccain. But then again, I think as far as the end time certain things have to happen, and there really isn't anything we can change because it was already written ya know. All we are responsible for as Christians is to recognize this time, preach the gospel, and not get caught up in worldly things while sustaining our faith and hope in Christ.


 

People are praying and fasting for this election and I will say this It is in the Hands of the Lord who will win this election Mr. Lewis makes valid points either way. I do not want to see Mcshame in either. However, I am not going to say who will win all I will say is that God knows who will be the next President and that is where I stand. If the world was to end now. I am going in peace b/c I am going Back to my Father in Heaven! I am doing a fast on the day of 11-4-08. So, all I will say is God knows who will win the election on this day. It has already been written. people say Vote Obama, but will they really. This country needs a Change yes, this is a Christian Forum and McShame will not do it He does not care about the common man you/me and others. Obama will get us to change though the fastest. I have to keep this in a Spritual Prospective intresting post over-all I read it earlier. They are other women of Faith who feel very opposite of Mr.Lewis.


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## Highly Favored8 (Oct 28, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> First, I am an informed voter and have voted in every presidential election I was eligible for since I was 18. I don't think I have ever 100% agreed with any candidate I have ever voted for in my life.
> 
> However, for me it is not acceptable to choose not to vote because I don't really like either candidate. That is the irresponsible act of someone who wants to dump the responsibility of choosing our leadership onto others. I wouldn't allow someone else to choose my church or my pastor for me and I will not allow someone else choose my country/state/local leadership for me. I think that is an irresponsible and ignorant suggestion.
> 
> ...


 

So on point!


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## momi (Oct 28, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> First, I am an informed voter and have voted in every presidential election I was eligible for since I was 18. I don't think I have ever 100% agreed with any candidate I have ever voted for in my life.
> 
> However, for me it is not acceptable to choose not to vote because I don't really like either candidate. That is the irresponsible act of someone who wants to dump the responsibility of choosing our leadership onto others. I wouldn't allow someone else to choose my church or my pastor for me and I will not allow someone else choose my country/state/local leadership for me. I think that is an irresponsible and ignorant suggestion.
> 
> ...


 

Are you saying you believe he is a rascist? (referring to the bolded)

Also, what did he say that made you feel he is not representative of Jesus Christ?  IMO, Jesus was pretty radical...


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## saved06 (Oct 28, 2008)

Thank you for your comments. I know, I've heard other prophets say that who ever is in office will not be saved but God is going to change their heart. I'm praying if this prophecy is true God will change Obama's heart lol ...Palin is a big joke. So I'm seeing we really won't know the deal until we are in it. But I do know C Lewis has always been on point with stuff even years ago.


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## saved06 (Oct 28, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> First, I am an informed voter and have voted in every presidential election I was eligible for since I was 18. I don't think I have ever 100% agreed with any candidate I have ever voted for in my life.
> 
> However, for me it is not acceptable to choose not to vote because I don't really like either candidate. That is the irresponsible act of someone who wants to dump the responsibility of choosing our leadership onto others. *I wouldn't allow someone else to choose my church or my pastor for me and I will not allow someone else choose my country/state/local leadership for me. I think that is an irresponsible and ignorant suggestion.*
> 
> ...


 
I guess it would be too much to get into the Electoral College? Lol


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## momi (Oct 28, 2008)

Highly Favored8 said:


> People are praying and fasting for this election and I will say this It is in the Hands of the Lord who will win this election Mr. Lewis makes valid points either way. I do not want to see Mcshame in either. However, I am not going to say who will win all I will say is that God knows who will be the next President and that is where I stand. If the world was to end now. I am going in peace b/c I am going Back to my Father in Heaven! I am doing a fast on the day of 11-4-08. So, all I will say is God knows who will win the election on this day. It has already been written. people say Vote Obama, but will they really. This country needs a Change yes, this is a Christian Forum and McShame will not do it He does not care about the common man you/me and others. _*Obama will get us to change though the fastest. I*_ have to keep this in a Spritual Prospective intresting post over-all I read it earlier. They are other women of Faith who feel very opposite of Mr.Lewis.


 
This is what worries me...  just what type of change.  

To be honest, I have not decided how I am going to vote.  As a black woman, I am truly proud of what he has been able to accomplish.  It is nice to see a black man with a strong family in the media which is opposite of what is generally shown... however based on his voting record I cannot vote for him.  

I have done enough wrong in my past - I dont need the blood of innocent babies on my hands.  

Did you know that he voted against the born alive victims act?  This bill  allows babies who are born from botched abortions to receive medical care.  This troubles me... we need change, but I wonder if it is his type of change that we need?

Crucify me - I don't care.  

_It is neither safe nor wise to do anything against conscience.  Here I stand I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen ( Martin Luther)_


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## saved06 (Oct 28, 2008)

momi said:


> This is what worries me... just what type of change.
> 
> To be honest, I have not decided how I am going to vote. As a black woman, I am truly proud of what he has been able to accomplish. It is nice to see a black man with a strong family in the media which is opposite of what is generally shown... however based on his voting record I cannot vote for him.
> 
> ...


 
Girl speak out! Many people aren't speaking due to popularity. And alot of us need to see this kind of perspective. I'm really gonna seek God on what to do.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 28, 2008)

momi said:


> Are you saying you believe he is a rascist? (referring to the bolded)
> 
> Also, what did he say that made you feel he is not representative of Jesus Christ? IMO, Jesus was pretty radical...


 
I am saying that what he is preaching is not love.  Jesus did everything out of love.  
"For God so LOVED the world, that He gave His only begotten son..."  John 3:16

Jesus said this to the disciples before he left this earth.  
 " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[b] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."  Matthew 22:37-40

Also, how does the world know that we are His disciples.
35 Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.” John 13:35

I am so tired of the message of Jesus Christ getting lost in sanctimonious, holier than thou, people who want to enforce and legislate morality instead of following the master's example by showing love and encouraging them on the right path.  Yes, there is a time to turn over tables in the temple, but it must be motivated by love for God or love for your neighbor and not self-righteousness.  I didn't see either in that blog, IMO.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 28, 2008)

[





saved06 said:


> I guess it would be too much to get into the Electoral College? Lol


 
One could only hope.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 28, 2008)

momi said:


> This is what worries me... just what type of change.
> 
> To be honest, I have not decided how I am going to vote. As a black woman, I am truly proud of what he has been able to accomplish. It is nice to see a black man with a strong family in the media which is opposite of what is generally shown... however based on his voting record I cannot vote for him.
> 
> ...


 
The important thing is that you vote, wherever your consicence leads you.


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## saved06 (Oct 28, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> I am saying that what he is preaching is not love. Jesus did everything out of love.
> "For God so LOVED the world, that He gave His only begotten son..." John 3:16
> 
> Jesus said this to the disciples before he left this earth.
> ...


 
Lol I have to disagree....people say things are not done in love because everyone wants delievery to be sugar coated. You should read Revelations lol. Where is the truth? I'm tired of these Joel Osteen feel good message. Give me the whole word of God. As soon as someone speaks the truth they have to be "judging" or "not doing it in love." No one like correction or discipline. 
If anything I would admire someone more who wants me to see the truth and not be deceived than someone who wants me to feel good for that moment. It's not being Holier than thou it's living by the truth.


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## saved06 (Oct 28, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> [
> 
> One could only hope.


 
Then that goes against your statement. People don't know but the electoral college is above your vote. So all those times you voted you really didn't have control. But the government wants it to seem as if you do. We don't have a direct election. If we did, why do we have the electoral college?


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## momi (Oct 28, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> I am saying that what he is preaching is not love. Jesus did everything out of love.
> "For God so LOVED the world, that He gave His only begotten son..." John 3:16
> 
> Jesus said this to the disciples before he left this earth.
> ...


 

I really do see your point, and we are to love however pasages like 

"Repent or perish" Luke 13

"Entering in through the narrow gate" Luke 13

"you will be hated by all" Luke 21

What do you do with these scriptures?  

Also, it seems like Jesus really had a disdain for the Pharassies and priests who were teaching holiness and living a life that was totally opposite of it. I am not trying to say I have it all figured out either...I am still watching and praying and trying to hear The Lord's voice on how this all is supposed to work in my life.  All I know is we need a revival and it has to start with the church.


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## Akemi (Oct 28, 2008)

saved06 said:


> Finally a brave soul lol. Yes, as much as I want to see Obama in, I'm asking myself am I looking at this through emotion or through the spirit. Satan does know how to play on emotions. My voters registration card got lost, so that slowed me down from voting, I'm going to continue to pray. I sure don't want Mccain. *But then again, I think as far as the end time certain things have to happen, and there really isn't anything we can change because it was already written ya know. All we are responsible for as Christians is to recognize this time, preach the gospel, and not get caught up in worldly things while sustaining our faith and hope in Christ.*


 
 I agree.


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## momi (Oct 28, 2008)

saved06 said:


> Lol I have to disagree....people say things are not done in love because everyone wants delievery to be sugar coated. You should read Revelations lol. Where is the truth? I'm tired of these Joel Osteen feel good message. Give me the whole word of God. As soon as someone speaks the truth they have to be "judging" or "not doing it in love." No one like correction or discipline.
> If anything I would admire someone more who wants me to see the truth and not be deceived than someone who wants me to feel good for that moment. It's not being Holier than thou it's living by the truth.


 
Amen. This is the truth, we have exchanged the truth of God for a lie.

Lord help us (me too)...


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## chrstndiva (Oct 28, 2008)

saved06 said:


> Lol I have to disagree....people say things are not done in love because everyone wants delievery to be sugar coated. You should read Revelations lol. Where is the truth? I'm tired of these Joel Osteen feel good message. Give me the whole word of God. As soon as someone speaks the truth they have to be "judging" or "not doing it in love." No one like correction or discipline.
> If anything I would admire someone more who wants me to see the truth and not be deceived than someone who wants me to feel good for that moment. It's not being Holier than thou it's living by the truth.


 
Who said anything about Joel Osteen or sugar coating?  Why does being loving have to imply sugar coating and fluff?  Jesus always spoke the truth in love.  He corrected His disciples in love.  One of the fruits of the spirit is discipline.  These are not bad things, but you automatically assumed since the word love was used that these things would go out the window.  What do you think the bible is?  It's a love letter to God's people and yes, that includes Revelations (which I have read) and James (if you really want some correction).  

Love is not about feeling good.  In this society, we have such a messed up view of what love is, maybe that's why even Christians don't know how to be loving while expounding the gospel of truth.

I Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."

As for me, I would rather speak in love and truth so I can be an effective voice in the ministry to further God's kingdom.  But that's just me.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 28, 2008)

saved06 said:


> Then that goes against your statement. People don't know but the electoral college is above your vote. So all those times you voted you really didn't have control. But the government wants it to seem as if you do. We don't have a direct election. If we did, why do we have the electoral college?


 
I was aware of that, but thanks for the civic lesson.   Historically, the electoral college has sided with the voice of the people.

Voting is about being heard.  Voting is about taking a stand and letting your positions be known and taking part in the electoral process.  It's about being an American and taking pride that we have the freedom to voice our opinions both vocally and at the polls.  I don't take it lightly and I don't take it for granted when today in 2008, in other countries people are intimidated at the polls and forced to vote for candidates because there are serious retributions if they don't.  I try not to take my blessings for granted so I will take advantage of my blessing and I will vote.  Again, that's just me.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 28, 2008)

momi said:


> I really do see your point, and we are to love however pasages like
> 
> "Repent or perish" Luke 13
> 
> ...


 
I don't believe that Jesus had disdain for anyone.  I am sure He was annoyed, disappointed and frustrated, but not having disdain.  I don't believe that is the character of God.

Also, you say that a revival has to start with the church.  Who is the church?  The church is anyone who calls themselves a Christian and claims Jesus as their Lord and Savior.  I assume that includes you as well.


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## momi (Oct 28, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> I don't believe that Jesus had disdain for anyone. I am sure He was annoyed, disappointed and frustrated, but not having disdain. I don't believe that is the character of God.
> 
> Also, you say that a revival has to start with the church. Who is the church? The church is anyone who calls themselves a Christian and claims Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I assume that includes you as well.


 
Duly noted.  Maybe disdain was not the correct word choice - but he seemed be have must less tolerance for the Jewish leaders who were not living what they were teaching.

Concerning your comment about the church - maybe you should revisit my post.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 29, 2008)

momi said:


> Duly noted. Maybe disdain was not the correct word choice - but he seemed be have must less tolerance for the Jewish leaders who were not living what they were teaching.
> 
> Concerning your comment about the church - maybe you should revisit my post.


 

I  apologize, but I did revisit your post and I am not sure what you are implying.  I'm afraid you will have to elaborate and be explicit with me.


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## saved06 (Oct 29, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> I was aware of that, but thanks for the civic lesson.  Historically, the electoral college has sided with the voice of the people.
> 
> Voting is about being heard. Voting is about taking a stand and letting your positions be known and taking part in the electoral process. It's about being an American and taking pride that we have the freedom to voice our opinions both vocally and at the polls. I don't take it lightly and I don't take it for granted when today in 2008, in other countries people are intimidated at the polls and forced to vote for candidates because there are serious retributions if they don't. I try not to take my blessings for granted so I will take advantage of my blessing and I will vote. Again, that's just me.


 
I respect your opinion and thank you for your comments. Voting is more symbolic like you said. But I was referring to your comment that "you just don't want anyone to decide for you who your leaders should be." Just to remind you that the electoral college will have the final say as we seen in prior elections.


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## saved06 (Oct 29, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> Who said anything about Joel Osteen or sugar coating? Why does being loving have to imply sugar coating and fluff? Jesus always spoke the truth in love. He corrected His disciples in love. One of the fruits of the spirit is discipline. These are not bad things, but you automatically assumed since the word love was used that these things would go out the window. What do you think the bible is? It's a love letter to God's people and yes, that includes Revelations (which I have read) and James (if you really want some correction).
> 
> Love is not about feeling good. In this society, we have such a messed up view of what love is, maybe that's why even Christians don't know how to be loving while expounding the gospel of truth.
> 
> ...


 
I'm confused on your stance on love. It seems like your version of love is to tell everyone what they want to hear type love, and we don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings by giving them the truth lol. Let's remember hell is real. The truth = love. I'm not sure on how you see G Lewis not showing love through the message he put out. I'm concerned about the state of the Church.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 29, 2008)

saved06 said:


> I'm confused on your stance on love. It seems like your version of love is to tell everyone what they want to hear type love, and we don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings by giving them the truth lol. Let's remember hell is real. The truth = love. I'm not sure on how you see G Lewis not showing love through the message he put out. I'm concerned about the state of the Church.


 
I'm not sure what you are confused about.  I thought I made it clear that is not what I am saying. Again, not sure where you are getting that I am saying that love is telling people what they want to hear. When you speak the truth in love, your motivation is to help, not hurt.  It is to correct and set on the right path.  Let me make it very plain.

Correction is a way of showing love, if it is motivated by love.  I can tell my sister that the way she is living her life is not pleasing to God and that it will only bring her more pain and chaos.  I can tell her that she is on a destructive path and that if she continues to sow destruction, she will reap destruction.  I can tell her that God is waiting for her to turn to Him and will gladly accept her just as she is and He will make her life brand new.  I can tell her that I love her enough to tell this to her because I want better for her and God desires for her to be the woman he created her to be.  It's called compassion, a trait that Jesus had in abundance.

Or I can say, she is living a sinful life and will burn in hell if she doesn't repent for her wicked ways.  

The former is truth in love providing correction, the latter is condemnation.

I strongly suggest you read the epistles of Paul, the letters that he wrote to the churches.  He clearly stated that he loved them and wanted them to be the people of God that would please the Lord, but he did not spare their feelings or mince words.  They are very good examples of truth in love.

I guess I just didn't see the love part of his blog.  All I saw was condemnation.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 29, 2008)

saved06 said:


> I respect your opinion and thank you for your comments. Voting is more symbolic like you said. But I was referring to your comment that "you just don't want anyone to decide for you who your leaders should be." Just to remind you that the electoral college will have the final say as we seen in prior elections.


 
I did NOT say voting is more symbolic and am NOT spreading that at all.  I was saying that voting was more than just going to the polls and more than the electoral college.  You misinterpreted and assumed things not in evidence.

We will have to agree to disagree on this matter.  I must be a purist about the language on this matter, and I cannot accept your position, but I thank you for the engaging discussion.


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## saved06 (Oct 29, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> I did NOT say voting is more symbolic and am NOT spreading that at all. I was saying that voting was more than just going to the polls and more than the electoral college. You misinterpreted and assumed things not in evidence.
> 
> We will have to agree to disagree on this matter. I must be a purist about the language on this matter, and I cannot accept your position, but I thank you for the engaging discussion.


 
Thanks. I want everyone else to get involved in the discussion.


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## saved06 (Oct 29, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> I was aware of that, but thanks for the civic lesson.  Historically, the electoral college has sided with the voice of the people.
> 
> *Voting is about being heard. Voting is about taking a stand and letting your positions be known and taking part in the electoral process. It's about being an American and taking pride that we have the freedom to voice our opinions both vocally and at the polls.* I don't take it lightly and I don't take it for granted when today in 2008, in other countries people are intimidated at the polls and forced to vote for candidates because there are serious retributions if they don't. I try not to take my blessings for granted so I will take advantage of my blessing and I will vote. Again, that's just me.


 
I guess we are just both confused. Because by that statement you are saying voting is symbolic. It is hard to follow your logic. But like you said we all have different views. I respect that


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## plainj (Oct 29, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> When you speak the truth in love, your motivation is to help, not hurt.  It is to correct and set on the right path.
> 
> Correction is a way of showing love, if it is motivated by love.  *I can tell my sister that the way she is living her life is not pleasing to God and that it will only bring her more pain and chaos.  I can tell her that she is on a destructive path and that if she continues to sow destruction, she will reap destruction.  I can tell her that God is waiting for her to turn to Him and will gladly accept her just as she is and He will make her life brand new.  I can tell her that I love her enough to tell this to her because I want better for her and God desires for her to be the woman he created her to be.  It's called compassion, a trait that Jesus had in abundance.
> 
> ...


I think both approaches are appropriate at different times and for different people. I know some that really need the strong condemning words to scare them straight. I personally need a softer touch to put me back in line. But I agree that the bottom line is the biblical truth absolutely needs to be told. I am concerned, disappointed, and discouraged, in the Body of Christ. 
Thank you (esp. chrstndiva, saved06, & momi) for this informative discussion. I am loving the different points of view and learning.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 29, 2008)

saved06 said:


> I guess we are just both confused. Because by that statement you are saying voting is symbolic. It is hard to follow your logic. But like you said we all have different views. I respect that


 
I am beginning to think we don't speak the same language. LOL


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## Highly Favored8 (Oct 29, 2008)

I am saying this to you out of  and for Respect and Love in Christ! Momi- So, Please no offense taken just MHO


Are you saying that *John Mcshame* is a better choice for Christians Voting I do not think so, IMHO. What I mean by change is Look at the way this country is going now. Do you think it will be any better? Americans want* CHANGE* and I REFUSE to throw away my God Given Right(s) to vote. It is a shame however, God already knows who is the next President and it is done by His Will *IMHO.    *All I truly see at times is negatives thrown at Obama one way or another. John Mcshame is so God- Given, Saving Saint and he is Not! Ok So look at Mcshames Voiting Record? *Blood of innocent babies on your hands! *
I am sorry what do you mean by this and So, You think John Mcsham is better he has blood on his hands as well!erplexed IRAQ WAR 
No, one is Crucifying you it is YHO! I cannot Judge you I am not God!
It is Free speech 


This is Mcshames stance on Abortion 

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench. Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states

My question is to you 

As Chirstians don't we have a right to CHOOSE! Don't we have FREE-WILL

IMHO I do not agree with abortion and that is between God and Me however, that is MY CHOICE and I cannot Infringe on another womens right to choose! I can help her if she needs help however, I cannot infringe my free-will just on that alone.

I can be here all day from Abortions to the War in Iraq and the treatment of AA in this country alone!  I understand where you are comming from however, I* am placing my faith and trust in God and I am voting and it will NOT BE FOR JOHN MCSHAME*!



momi said:


> This is what worries me... just what type of change.
> 
> To be honest, I have not decided how I am going to vote. As a black woman, I am truly proud of what he has been able to accomplish. It is nice to see a black man with a strong family in the media which is opposite of what is generally shown... however based on his voting record I cannot vote for him.
> 
> ...


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## saved06 (Oct 29, 2008)

Lord no! McCain no way! The blog talked about not voting for the lesser of two evils so to speak and to seek God in this time. He is saying that Obama is being used as a decoy to set the stage for the anti-christ. But he is also not endorsing McCain nor am I. I believe Obama will win, but I'm not sure of the long run outcome.


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## momi (Oct 29, 2008)

Highly Favored8 said:


> I am saying this to you out of and for Respect and Love in Christ! Momi- So, Please no offense taken just MHO
> 
> 
> Are you saying that *John Mcshame* is a better choice for Christians Voting I do not think so, IMHO. What I mean by change is Look at the way this country is going now. Do you think it will be any better? Americans want* CHANGE* and I REFUSE to throw away my God Given Right(s) to vote. It is a shame however, God already knows who is the next President and it is done by His Will *IMHO. *All I truly see at times is negatives thrown at Obama one way or another. John Mcshame is so God- Given, Saving Saint and he is Not! Ok So look at Mcshames Voiting Record? *Blood of innocent babies on your hands! *
> ...


 
Hi Highly Favored!

First of all, I would never refer to McCain or any other veteran as McShame. Regardless of how one may feel about him, he served our country and deserves honor. I come from a family of men who have served in the military and would be highly offended if they were referred to in that manner. There are many issues I have with Obama, but I would never call him something other than what his mama named him.

Regarding the vote: Absoultely - I am in no position to tell anyone how to vote. I have just made a decision myself, although I decided early in the primary that it would not be Obama. There are many things about his policy that trouble me - but that is for another post on another day  

Christians and any other American citizen for that matter have a right to choose and free-will - that is the beauty of a democratic government. 

We have been taught to think that abortion is all about "a woman's choice". Who is choosing for the child. God calls life precious even before conception. 

_Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart... Jeremiah 1:5_

_You knit me together in my mother's womb...Psalm 139 13_

It has nothing to do with a woman's choice. Generally speaking the choice the woman has is prior to conception. After conception it is a life.
If you were walking in Target and witnessed a mama beating her child's head in the ground would you stop and intervine? Of course you would (well I would anyway) because we are to protect our children... in and out of the womb. By the way - Obama supports even the most vile type of abortion - partial birth abortion. (This is where they deliver the baby feet first and suck the brains out). I really dont think he has a cruel heart, he has just probably been told the same lie the rest of us have. 

I am no theologian nor prophet, but somehow I feel we have (the church) lost our way. We have got to seek deliverance from this "lukewarmness"
_So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth. Rev 3:16_

_My daily prayer is that I am found in The Lord's Will and be found worthy of Him when He returns. _

_I cannot tell anyone what to do - all I can suggest is that we all seek God and His will on each and every matter. _

*It is neither safe nor wise to do anything against conscience. Here I stand I can do no other. God help me. Amen ( Martin Luther*)


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## Highly Favored8 (Oct 30, 2008)

momi said:


> Hi Highly Favored!
> 
> First of all, I would never refer to McCain or any other veteran as McShame. Regardless of how one may feel about him, he served our country and deserves honor. I come from a family of men who have served in the military and would be highly offended if they were referred to in that manner. There are many issues I have with Obama, but I would never call him something other than what his mama named him.
> 
> ...


 

Again I am going to say This is in Christ Love Please take No Offense

I do not like nor care for John Mcshame War Veteran or Not!

My father and my 2 grandfathers are war veterns and heros too Purple Hearts Matter of Fact and all Three of Them made me feel Very Blessed and Honorable and I have so many wonderful stories and memories from them about the wars they served
Father Marines Vietnam
GrandFather Army WWII
GrandFather Navy WWII
All Had very Honorable and Military Funerals Paid for by this goverment and all! So, yes I too have a Rich family Histroy in the Military.

I understand where you are comming from about John Mcsham a lot of AA people who I speak to served in the war are voting for him just b/c of that reason. 

Now, you disagree with Obama on his voting record that is your choice and I am not telling you how to vote or choose. I am not voting for John Mcshame,I do not like nor respect him at all for my personal reasons just like you do not like Obama for his voting record " and you do not want blood of inncocent on your hands".

All, I will say and leave you with this

God had Already knows who will win the Election Whether Mcshame or Obama it is in God's hands and I must respect that. I am voting I am blessed to have that right to vote and I am going to exercise it for myself. I check the voting records of both canidates and All I can tell you is that The American People want Change/ However, It is in God's hands and I am going to leave it as such.

Stay Blessed!


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## momi (Oct 30, 2008)

Okay HighlyFavored:

It woud be nice to have this conversation over a cup of coffee at Panera.  I think we both could be more transparent 

Take Care!


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## chrstndiva (Oct 30, 2008)

Just wanted to clarify Obama's stance on abortion.  I hear his voting record misquoted most often.  I must say I don't share some of his views, but if you are going to debate someone's record, it should be correct.

I live in Illinois and he does not support partial birth abortion.  He voted "Present" which is the same as "No" against banning partial birth abortions in the state of Illinois.  He has stated then and now that he did so because 1) There was nothing about allowing the health of the mother to be considered in the decistion 2) The same legislation also defined life as a fetus in the same bill which would have banned all abortion in the state of Illinois.

Just thought I'd clarify.


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## ajoyfuljoy (Oct 30, 2008)

G Craig Lewis is a man who has gotten famous making slanderous and outrageous statements about others.

Please take anything he says or writes with a grain of salt.

Let's do our responsibility as Christians and keep praying...no matter who wins and no matter what happens. We must trust the Lord and His plan. After all, He surely is in control. 

*Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will (KJV).*

I will pray above all that the Lord's will is done in this nation and earth.


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## momi (Oct 30, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> Just wanted to clarify Obama's stance on abortion. I hear his voting record misquoted most often. I must say I don't share some of his views, but if you are going to debate someone's record, it should be correct.
> 
> I live in Illinois and he does not support partial birth abortion. He voted "Present" which is the same as "No" against banning partial birth abortions in the state of Illinois. He has stated then and now that he did so because 1) There was nothing about allowing the health of the mother to be considered in the decistion 2) The same legislation also defined life as a fetus in the same bill which would have banned all abortion in the state of Illinois.
> 
> ...


 
Actually diva - his record on abortion is 100% clear. Your facts are incorrect. Even NARAL gives him a 100% score on his stance concerning abortion.

Here you go... this is his vote on the born alive babies act  link ..

A simple google search should yield all the information you need on this subject - if you care to look.

Thanks.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 30, 2008)

momi said:


> Actually diva - his record on abortion is 100% clear. Your facts are incorrect. Even NARAL gives him a 100% score on his stance concerning abortion.
> 
> Here you go... this is his vote on the born alive babies act link ..
> 
> ...


 
With all due respect, my facts are not incorrect.  You can check the Illinois State Senate voting records if you like.   The bill that you listed (1662) is not about partial birth abortion which I clearly stated that I was addressing in my post.  Please read my post again in case you missed it.  He voted present on the legislation for partial birth abortion (bills SB230 and HB382).  The bill was passed but not before the Governor vetoed the part about the fetus and this was adopted by the senate to amend he bill.  Let's try to stay on topic.

By the way NARAL voted him 100% on abortion for the years 2005, 2006 and 2007.  FYI.

When I first heard the statements that you made (long before from someone else), I checked them out for myself from the state of Illinois senate bill voting records.    You can read them if you like, I did.  I prefer not to rely on second sources, things get lost in translation.  I go to the source and invite you to do the same.  

By the way, I am able to disagree with someone on an issue while still recognizing the facts.  I'm just wired that way.  I don't agree with all of Obama's votes on this issue, but I never allow that to cloud the facts. 

I apologize if you took any offense, but I can't help it if you don't like the facts.


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## momi (Oct 30, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> With all due respect, my facts are not incorrect. You can check the Illinois State Senate voting records if you like. The bill that you listed (1662) is not about partial birth abortion which I clearly stated that I was addressing in my post. Please read my post again in case you missed it. He voted present on the legislation for partial birth abortion (bills SB230 and HB382). The bill was passed but not before the Governor vetoed the part about the fetus and this was adopted by the senate to amend he bill. Let's try to stay on topic.
> 
> By the way NARAL voted him 100% on abortion for the years 2005, 2006 and 2007. FYI.
> 
> ...


 
@ christndiva -
Why would you think I was offended? I am not sure if there was anything in my previous post(s) that made you think that.  

Some issues are up for dispute - but where Obama stands on abortion is not. Surely you are not disputing that? He, his campaign, and his website have made that abundantly clear. 


Also, I am not sure why you felt it relevant to note what yeras NARAL has given him 100% - is it to note that 08 is not listed?

The issue here is not whether Obama has a pro-abortion platform - the issue is should it matter to us as individuals and as representatives of Christ. 

This is a Christian form and the OP posted this topic for discussion. I hope it does not appear by the tone of my posts that I am being argumentative. For sure non-Christians visit this forum and that is the last thing they need to witness...


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## momi (Oct 30, 2008)

It seems that some have a problem with his delivery - but is there anything in his posts that you feel does not line up with the word of God?  

Just curious...


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## momi (Oct 30, 2008)

ajoyfuljoy said:


> G Craig Lewis is a man who has gotten famous making slanderous and outrageous statements about others.
> 
> Please take anything he says or writes with a grain of salt.
> 
> ...


 

What has he said that has been proven to be an untruth?

Yes, I will be praying this as well...


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## saved06 (Oct 31, 2008)

What another prophet is saying:


A Prophetic Warning
Homer Owen & Steve Foss
Oct 30, 2008

I am forwarding the following prophetic warning to all of my list in hopes that we will join our hearts with the heart of the God of all mercy. May God truly have mercy on us in these days. 
Blessings, 
Homer and Ruby

A Prophetic Warning from Pastor Steve Foss Sat, 25 Oct 2008
I am writing to you today an urgent message concerning the coming American election. God has released me to share with you a powerful prophecy He gave me eight years ago. I have shared this prophecy in a number of public meetings, but I have never published it for all our friends and partners.
In January of 2000 God gave me an incredible insight into what was about to happen in the coming elections in America over the next decade.
I am not using this e-mail to tell you, who are citizens of America, who to vote for. However, you need to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying. Never in my 22 years of ministry have I seen such a spirit of delusion released upon our country.
In January of 2000, while the Republican nomination for president was far from being decided, God spoke to me that George W. Bush would be the president of the United States.
He told me it would be the hardest fought election in American history. I'm sure we can all remember the incredible battle that took place in Florida. He told me that President Bush would be elected to two terms. He told me that during Bush's term there would be a season of unprecedented economic prosperity.
Now despite what the media has said, the economic wealth created during the last eight years was unprecedented. I know the media and one of the political parties has been trying to paint the last eight years as the worst economic time in American history, but it is absolutely untrue. If you look at the wealth created, there were more millionaires created in the last eight years than any time in history.
Multitudes of people were able to sell real estate before the housing market collapse, and received incredible transfers of wealth. I could spend hours showing documentation of the wealth created, but suffice it to say, the evidence is there.
God then said to me, "At the end of President Bush's second term there would be an economic collapse." As everyone in the world knows, we have just faced the greatest economic threat since 1929 and the Great Depression. I will speak a little more about the present economic situation a
little later in this message.
Every detail that God gave me has come to pass exactly as He said. Now there is one more important thing that God spoke to me. This is the purpose and the reason I am writing this e-mail today. God spoke to me that after George W. Bush, America would elect its most ungodly president ever.
I'm going to say that again. God spoke to me that after George W. Bush, America would elect its most ungodly president ever.
As of the writing of this e-mail we are now less than two weeks away from voting for our next president. At this time the polls are strongly showing that the Democratic nominee for president will easily win the White House.
Now in 2006 I began to ask the Lord, "Is that guaranteed to happen in 2008?" He spoke to me very clearly and gave me the key words to what I believe holds this election in the balance right now. He gave me these key words that can forever change what is about to happen in America.
He said, "It depends on the Christians."
I am not going to endorse a candidate, nor am I telling anyone who to vote for. I am simply sharing what God has shown me.
I had a vision earlier this year. I saw Barack Obama in this vision. He was speaking to a large crowd and being broadcast on television. He was speaking incredible words of unity, peace, and bringing all sides together; the words were elegant, the words were comforting, and the words were inspiring.
But while he was speaking I saw all a powerful spirit of violence coming out of his spirit feeding into the spirits of those that were hearing him. That spirit of violence was directed at anybody who opposed what he was saying. Those who heard his words and received it had the spirit of violence being implanted inside of them. It was a rage like I have not seen before.
It was the rage that would be unleashed against those who oppose and stand in the way of Barack Obama's agenda. We are already seeing the beginnings of this spirit manifested here in America. The vicious attacks against Sarah Palin have been unlike anything we have ever seen before. The sheer hate for this woman from people who knew nothing about her, and who claim to stand up and protect the little people, and women, has been shocking.


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## saved06 (Oct 31, 2008)

We now see it with Joe the plumber. These people who are under the influence of this demon spirit of rage desire to completely destroy this man because he dared to question Barack Obama. In fact it wasn't just the question; it was because Barack Obama revealed his true agenda that Joe the plumber became a threat. So the supporters of Barack Obama who had been fed and affected by the spirit of violence went into full swing to destroy a fellow citizen; the very kind of person that Barack Obama has been speaking about in his eloquent speeches, saying how he is the only candidate fighting for them.
I want to put this deep in your spirit. I am speaking as a prophet. The words I'm about to tell you are "thus saith the Lord". If Barack Obama is elected, the attacks against free speech, against those who believe differently than he does, and the systematic use of the government and laws to silence the voice of fundamental Christians will be unlike anything ever seen in this nation before.
I have talked to many Christians, including pastors, not only here in the United States but around the world, who strongly support Barack Obama. Many of them are angry with the Republicans, and understandably so. Others are inspired by the thought of electing America's first African American president, while others believe Barack Obama to be a Christian who is very concerned with the poor and needy. I am not going to address any of the many concerns about Barack Obama and his form of Christianity. I am only speaking the words of thus saith the Lord, and you have to decide what you're going to do with it.
But I want to remind you, every word God has spoken to me over the last eight years and every word which I have prophesied about the American government and the elections has come to pass.
God does not give this prophecy to scare us, but to prepare us.
God said that the 2008 election is in the hands of the Christians. Just like when God spoke to Jonah about the judgment coming to Nineveh, when the Ninevites repented God withheld judgment; the same can happen in this election. Even though God spoke that America would elect its most ungodly president, He has given us the ability to stay this judgment.
Now you may be asking, "Are you saying that Barack Obama, if elected, would be America's most ungodly president ever?" Yes!
Now I'm not telling you who to vote for. Some people want an ungodly president. That's their choice. I have watched throughout the world, Christians support political leaders who are blatantly ungodly. So again, this is the people's choice.
I believe if the Christians will pray, repent, and hear the voice of God, a miracle can happen on Election Day. This nation lies in the hands of the Christians. Will we humble ourselves before God and pray for His kingdom to come and His will to be done? Or will we allow our emotions, our
feelings, our angers, our greed, our race, the opinions of the media, our fears, to dictate to us and affect who we vote for? If you allow these things to affect you, whether you vote for Republican or Democrat, you are not being led by the Spirit.
We must spend time in deep intercessory prayer and cry out for God's mercy upon America. For all our friends who are not in the United States, if Christianity comes under the assaults that it would under a government controlled by Barack Obama and the Liberal Democrats, it will have horrible negative effects on the Gospel throughout the world.
All truth is parallel. People say when America catches a cold, the world suffers a flu. This present financial crisis is proof of that. When America is moral and bows its knee to God, it has incredible positive spiritual impact around the world. However, we have seen over the last several decades, when America becomes more immoral that too affects the world.
We need all the Christians around the world to pray for revival to come to America, and for God to have mercy and spare us from this judgment.
Finally, a brief word about the financial crisis. This is not the end time financial crisis. It is very serious, and it is shaking the foundations of the world's economic system. But we will come out of this, and there will be a time again of incredible wealth creation. However, the cracks in the financial system will not be healed. The door has been opened and the way is being made for a one world government system to overtake the world's economics.
The world will falsely look at this situation and say that when the governments individually, and with some unified coordination, jumped in to rescue the world, that it prevented a worldwide depression. In the future, when the true end time financial collapse takes place, it will be very easy for the nations of the world and the peoples of those nations to allow a new worldwide governing body to come to the rescue. Understand that everything that is happening has a significant spiritual purpose.
So don't panic by what you see happening today, but take this as a spiritual warning from God. Prepare yourself. Get out of debt. Hear the voice of the Holy Spirit in regards to how you handle money. Let God position you to handle the future complete economic collapse and the overtaking of the world's economic system.
Please pray for America. May God have mercy on us all.
Your friend,
Steve Foss

Steve Foss Ministries
P.O. Box 1592
Keller, TX 76244
817-898-0440
www.stevefoss.com


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## saved06 (Oct 31, 2008)

momi said:


> What has he said that has been proven to be an untruth?
> 
> Yes, I will be praying this as well...


 
Everything he has said is backed up by the word of God. I wish we had more leaders in the body who will speak the truth. This is why the church is suffering and we are not as powerful as we could be.


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## chrstndiva (Oct 31, 2008)

momi said:


> @ christndiva -
> Why would you think I was offended? I am not sure if there was anything in my previous post(s) that made you think that.
> 
> Some issues are up for dispute - but where Obama stands on abortion is not. Surely you are not disputing that? He, his campaign, and his website have made that abundantly clear.
> ...


 
You appeared to be offended because you responded emotionally to a fact check.  To be honest with you, I don't see why you needed to respond to my post in the first place.  I was making a correction as a matter of record and accuracy, not supporting the decision or disagreeing with it.

You read more in my post than what was there,  A factual check straight from the Senate minutes of the meeting.  I was clarifying the actual vote that was in question.  I don't see why bringing the facts of the vote would cause an issue with you.  I was not engaging in a discussion on the morals or ethics of abortion.  I already know where I stand and don't feel I need to discuss it. 

You were the one who brought that up and you ended up attacking me when I just posted what was in the actual minutes of the vote.  Please read the posts more carefully before you respond.  And you are correct that this discussion no longer needs to continue.  

Have a blessed day.


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## saved06 (Oct 31, 2008)

chrstndiva said:


> You appeared to be offended because you responded emotionally to a fact check. To be honest with you, I don't see why you needed to respond to my post in the first place. I was making a correction as a matter of record and accuracy, not supporting the decision or disagreeing with it.
> 
> You read more in my post than what was there, A factual check straight from the Senate minutes of the meeting. I was clarifying the actual vote that was in question. I don't see why bringing the facts of the vote would cause an issue with you. I was not engaging in a discussion on the morals or ethics of abortion. I already know where I stand and don't feel I need to discuss it.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you all for your comments. No need to continue on this.
I posted a new letter from another prophet. Please comment thanks.


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## MrsQueeny (Oct 31, 2008)

Let me just comment in the prophet info posted above. The only rage I see has been from those on the McCain/Palin side. At their rally people are shouting, "kill him, terrorist and n*gger."  An Obama supporter was shot for wearing an Obama shirt.  They just arrested 2 men for plotting to kill Obama and other blacks.  A McCain worker, lied and said someone robbed her and carved a B on her face.  At an Obama rally, folks had their tires slashed.  

Palin is being attacked just like any other politician. She is a liar and has been proven to be one. Joe the Plumber, his first name is not Joe, and he is not a plumber. But yet he allows himself to be called that and is now on the trail with McCain/Palin, hired a publicist, and has deals in the work. He was not some regular citizen asking questions, he was a plant, plain and simple.  So he is a liar as well. The only side I see spouting hate, spreading lies, and inciting rage is the McCain side so the prophet misses with all of that. 

He isn't the only one that has received visions about the economic situation but that has very little to do with Obama and more to do with us as americans and christians in general not being good stewards.  It's amazing how folks want to tie all of this on one man who happens to be black. Now I am the last one to pull the race card but I wasn't surprised to see the Ross guy was white.  An objective person would be able to see the flaws on both sides and not be so one sided like the info posted above was. Like I said I have yet to see the rage mentioned from the Obama side but McCain and Palin sure have shown enough of it in the past couple of weeks. That alone doesn't add up to what he is saying.  Tis all. Q


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## saved06 (Oct 31, 2008)

***Que*** said:


> Let me just comment in the prophet info posted above. The only rage I see has been from those on the McCain/Palin side. At their rally people are shouting, "kill him, terrorist and n*gger." An Obama supporter was shot for wearing an Obama shirt. They just arrested 2 men for plotting to kill Obama and other blacks. A McCain worker, lied and said someone robbed her and carved a B on her face. At an Obama rally, folks had their tires slashed.
> 
> Palin is being attacked just like any other politician. She is a liar and has been proven to be one. Joe the Plumber, his first name is not Joe, and he is not a plumber. But yet he allows himself to be called that and is now on the trail with McCain/Palin, hired a publicist, and has deals in the work. He was not some regular citizen asking questions, he was a plant, plain and simple. So he is a liar as well. The only side I see spouting hate, spreading lies, and inciting rage is the McCain side so the prophet misses with all of that.
> 
> He isn't the only one that has received visions about the economic situation but that has very little to do with Obama and more to do with us as americans and christians in general not being good stewards. It's amazing how folks want to tie all of this on one man who happens to be black. Now I am the last one to pull the race card but I wasn't surprised to see the Ross guy was white. An objective person would be able to see the flaws on both sides and not be so one sided like the info posted above was. Like I said I have yet to see the rage mentioned from the Obama side but McCain and Palin sure have shown enough of it in the past couple of weeks. That alone doesn't add up to what he is saying. Tis all. Q


 
Yes, I think both sides need to be seen and represented. The best candidate is probably the least popular one on the ballot Good points!


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## MrsQueeny (Oct 31, 2008)

saved06 said:


> Yes, I think both sides need to be seen and represented. The best candidate is probably the least popular one on the ballot Good points!



I agree and I have said before for me, it is picking the lesser of 2 devils. I wasn't on the Obama team from jump. It took awhile for me to get there. But I am all for him and I am also a christian and a minister.  I took a good hard look at the total picture and the stuff I have seen from McCain/Palin as of late has sickened me. I've lost a lot of respect for John McCain because it appears he just wants to win and doesn't care how it happens even if it means lying, preventing folks from voting and inciting hate. That is not of God.  Q


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2008)

The one thing that this man 'Lewis' doesn't see is that God is using President Barack Obama to His glory.    

Be it Republican or Democrat, abortion is not changing.  If so, it would have in the last 8 years of Bush.

Homosexuality is not overtaking the Church.  Not on my watch!  

Why on earth would no one not see the demonic spirit which lies in McCain and Palin?   The Republicans are out to extnguish Black America.   The RED flags are up and waving, waiting to wipe Black off of the color pallet of this country.    

How dare any Chrisitian sit back and be intimidated and ruled by fear.   If you want to vote for Presiden Obama than do so and don't allow anyone to keep you back.    Do NOT sit home and not vote.   

Didn't satan himself use these same tactics against Jesus, when he came from the 40 days / 40 nights in the wilderness?   

Come on Ladies.  Get you loins girded about with truth.  Speak it out loud, "... get thee behind me satan'.     Get out there and vote.  Out of all of our candidates, President Obama is the only one who has truly acknowledged the Lord Jesus Christ and he MEANS it!   

Look at him.   He represents a strong Black family, not ashamed to call on God as his God.   

Do you know that the only reason homosexuals are in the Church is because they have not had a strong Black man to identify with growing up?   That spirit of homosexuality has been able to enter in by way of male absence.  And yes, it happens to girls too.   Girls need their fathers. 

To have a Black family --- ALL BROWN Tones as the top leaders in this country is truly a gift from God.   For it will lead others to follow as the right example.  For far too long we have had whites in charge and they were the ones with 'stability' over our families.  

God begins with the family.  He did so with Adam and Eve...'Family'.  

President Obama has all that this country needs for God to work with to get it straight.   

Ladies we're not voting Black, we're voting for us.  We are allowing God to change the mess that this country has made.   And it takes each of us one button at a time to press on November 4 to make it a reality.  

It's the devil who's fighting this, not God.  Sin and corruption comes from lack of conviction and stability.  Conviction  and stability comes from a stable home.  

Vote Black and don't look back.   It's not worth it having our lives ending up as a pillar of salt.   We're entering into our promised land filled with milk and honey.  The caanites, the republicans are being cast out.


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## saved06 (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm just bringing in different "prophet" perspectives.  My pastor is saying that Obama is not saved now but when he gets into the White House God is going to change him.  All we can do is pray, watch, and vote if you so choose. Thanks everyone. This is a very interesting time in our generation.


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2008)

***Que*** said:


> I agree and I have said before for me, it is picking the lesser of 2 devils. I wasn't on the Obama team from jump. It took awhile for me to get there. But I am all for him and I am also a christian and a minister. I took a good hard look at the total picture and the stuff I have seen from McCain/Palin as of late has sickened me. I've lost a lot of respect for John McCain because it appears he just wants to win and doesn't care how it happens even if it means lying, preventing folks from voting and inciting hate. That is not of God.  Q


   This is so true, Lady 'Q'


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## Ms.Honey (Oct 31, 2008)

Aren't prophecies supposed to be revealed BEFORE they have come to pass? 

It's amazing that all of these"Christian" preachers are coming out with this doom and gloom when we have a black man running for President. Coincidence? I think not!!!!!

Where were their warnings and Words from the Lord before we elected the worst and dumbest POTUS eight years ago???????? The one who CAUSED all of this mess!!!!!!! I sho' nuff would have appreciated the,"The Lord spke to me and warned that if we don't knock on some doors and get more folks to vote we will be stuck with an idiot that would send our sons and daughters off to a senseless war so he and his croonies could get rich off of it" prophecy!!!!!!!!!! I would have personally knocked on a thousand doors and registered folks myself!!!

May the Lord repay each and everyone of them PUBLICLY for their prophecies


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## momi (Oct 31, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> The one thing that this man 'Lewis' doesn't see is that God is using President Barack Obama to His glory.
> 
> Be it Republican or Democrat, abortion is not changing.  If so, it would have in the last 8 years of Bush.
> 
> ...



Shimmie

You have made some good points. I haven't changed my mind on where I stand, but I appreciate your point of view.


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## babydollhair (Nov 1, 2008)

I just do not see how Obama is qualified to be the President of the United States, community organizer? little time in the senate, That's all its takes, oh and change. Without going into everthing, i don't see it, Joe biden said it when running... U mean in 2008 u have the morning after pill, condoms, birth control pills and you STILL want to give any woman the legal right to abort a baby in america, outside of rape/incest. 1970/2008 things have changed...so what is the real reason you still  support abortion? *" I'm clinging to my Bible, as long as live Joker!" *


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 1, 2008)

babydollhair said:


> I just do not see how Obama is qualified to be the President of the United States, community organizer? little time in the senate, That's all its takes, oh and change. Without going into everthing, i don't see it, Joe biden said it when running... U mean in 2008 u have the morning after pill, condoms, birth control pills and you STILL want to give any woman the legal right to abort a baby in america, outside of rape/incest. 1970/2008 things have changed...so what is the real reason you still support abortion? *" I'm clinging to my Bible, as long as live Joker!" *


 
You do realize that if McCain is elected and dies during his presidency(which is a very big possibility) that SARAH PALIN WOULD BE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES RIGHT????????????? At least Obama has Biden, what does McCain have? A twit who doesn't even know what her own job as VP would entail !!!!!

Now McCain I can deal with. He's not going to do anything but the same ole crap Bush does as he has been doing since Bush humiliated him AND his "Black out of wedlock" daughter causing him to lose the nomination but I digress. But Sarah Palin? The chick who has insulted every Muslim in the world by not so subtly associating their names with terrorism? Sarah gets in there as VP expect worse than Sept.11.

Don't be fooled Roe vs.Wade will NEVER be reversed. If neither Reagan or either of the Bush's couldn't do it John McSame sure can't. 

I really wish Christians would stop harping on that Oh and gay unions. We need to clean our OWN house before we even begin to worry about what the world does. Let's deal with OUR premarital/extramarital sex issues and out of wedlock pregnancies,  gay choir directors and "Ministers" of Music first THEN we can confront the unsaved on their mess


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## MrsQueeny (Nov 1, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> You do realize that if McCain is elected and dies during his presidency(which is a very big possibility) that SARAH PALIN WOULD BE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES RIGHT????????????? At least Obama has Biden, what does McCain have? A twit who doesn't even know what her own job as VP would entail !!!!!
> 
> Now McCain I can deal with. He's not going to do anything but the same ole crap Bush does as he has been doing since Bush humiliated him AND his "Black out of wedlock" daughter causing him to lose the nomination but I digress. But Sarah Palin? The chick who has insulted every Muslim in the world by not so subtly associating their names with terrorism? Sarah gets in there as VP expect worse than Sept.11.
> 
> ...



Now Ms.Honey, you already know that getting into heaven only involves being against abortion and gay rights.  Who cares about the lying, slandering, and cheating John McCain and Palin have been doing. They are against abortion so they can do that. Who cares that Jesus wants us to look out for our brother and sisters but yet Palin has cut funding in her own state to help those very same teenage mothers who opted to not abort and McCain doesn't really care about the middle class.  I mean all that other stuff in the bible really doesn't matter as long as you are against those two things.  Gosh don't you know anything?!!!  Q

ETA: Oh and we see what an experienced person as President got us.  Yeah we are doing great. We sure did fix Irag and conquer Afghanistan.   Although some of the best Presidents have had very little experience. Q


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## babydollhair (Nov 1, 2008)

I think it's were he stands on the issue that matters, to me how you view the life of the innocent deals with your character and ethics and reflects how you value human life or devalue it. I can't always  change the law but that don't mean i have to stand in agreement with it to pacify anybody. Please God not man.  At least Sarah wants to drill as another prophet stated the antichrist will assume leadership over OPEC and whatever countries fall under opec he will easily take over, if America can be independent of the oil , or drill more here, at Sarah will try to get that done. Not Obama. Obama is running as the lead of that ticket not Biden, and like i stated he is not qualified to me. Not that there is a roadmap  that is set on how too, sorry i can't drink the kool aid on the war Mcain will bring or keep us in lest i forgot the bible say there will be wars and rumors of wars, regardless of who is elected in the days leading to the end of the age. 

The truth is also i don't believe that Obama/Biden can fulfill half the promises . I feel America is in a state of transition of the supermacy in world leadership, i feel China is the arising/new leader. Some jobs aren't coming back, globalization is in effect, and that is something that is a reality. Im speaking my opinion. I think Obama tells many americans what they want to hear, but economically cannot be delivered, China has the money to lend to us to get tax refund checks, did you know where are refunds came from earlier this year and that country is taking place as a dynasty over america economically, they have more manpower, as last day prophecy indicates anyway. 


Energy is important and a way to bring more jobs, and make america more competive and effcient, at least Sarah deals with that anyway with her position in Alaska.


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## babydollhair (Nov 1, 2008)

***Que*** said:


> Now Ms.Honey, you already know that getting into heaven only involves being against abortion and gay rights.  Who cares about the lying, slandering, and cheating John McCain and Palin have been doing. They are against abortion so they can do that. Who cares that Jesus wants us to look out for our brother and sisters but yet Palin has cut funding in her own state to help those very same teenage mothers who opted to not abort and McCain doesn't really care about the middle class.  I mean all that other stuff in the bible really doesn't matter as long as you are against those two things.  Gosh don't you know anything?!!!  Q
> 
> ETA: Oh and we see what an experienced person as President got us.  Yeah we are doing great. We sure did fix Irag and conquer Afghanistan.   Although some of the best Presidents have had very little experience. Q




Everyone will  not  agree on everything but most defintely I  know i stand on political issues based on moral conviction and biblical. I can go tit for tat on finding where Mcain lied or Obama lied, cheated whatever. The issues i care for go beyond abortion, but that is what was being discussed when i added, but regardless like i said war will happen, not because of republicans because Jesus said before the end of the age, there will be wars and rumors of wars. Bottomline.


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## MrsQueeny (Nov 1, 2008)

babydollhair said:


> Everyone will  not  agree on everything but most defintely I  know i stand on political issues based on moral conviction and biblical. I can go tit for tat on finding where Mcain lied or Obama lied, cheated whatever. The issues i care for go beyond abortion, but that is what was being discussed when i added, but regardless like i said war will happen, not because of republicans because Jesus said before the end of the age, there will be wars and rumors of wars. Bottomline.



You are right but I look at ALL of the issues as a whole. Like I said before it is about choosing the lesser of 2 devils and the lies and hate that has come out of John McCains and Palin's mouths speaks volumes to me. I don't drink koolaid at all so no worries here. Yes wars will happen but it is sad when they happen based on lies and misleading people. I am sure the parents of those 4000 plus soldiers who have lost their lives would agree as well.  I am glad I am able to be objective and not just all into one side. Yes I have made my choice and I support them after much praying, fasting, and looking at ALL the issues.  

I don't look to the world's leaders to lead me spiritually. I have Jesus, my bible and my Pastor for that. I too am pro-life for myself but I can't speak for anyone else. Just like God gives me free will to make a choice, I give it to others as well.  I would never enforce something on someone God himself wouldn't.  Besides if the republicans wanted to get rid of abortion, they would have. But they won't because it keeps the base right where they want them.  

Yes Obama will have an uphill battle because of the how the last 8 years has set us back. But McCain doesn't have a clue about the middle class and how we are affected.  As far as the antichrist is concerned I am not worried because at the end of my bible, we win. We need more than just oil. Our problem is being too oil dependent PERIOD. We need to look into wind and solar energy as well.  We need to bring everything back home so we won't have to worry about China and owing all of these other countries. Focusing on other forms of energy like wind and solar will bring more jobs back to the US as well. We have to think outside the box and not just be one-sided that is how we got into a lot of the mess we are in today. Q


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## babydollhair (Nov 1, 2008)

***Que*** said:


> You are right but I look at ALL of the issues as a whole. Like I said before it is about choosing the lesser of 2 devils and the lies and hate that has come out of John McCains and Palin's mouths speaks volumes to me. I don't drink koolaid at all so no worries here. Yes wars will happen but it is sad when they happen based on lies and misleading people. I am sure the parents of those 4000 plus soldiers who have lost their lives would agree as well.  I am glad I am able to be objective and not just all into one side. Yes I have made my choice and I support them after much praying, fasting, and looking at ALL the issues.
> 
> I don't look to the world's leaders to lead me spiritually. I have Jesus, my bible and my Pastor for that. I too am pro-life for myself but I can't speak for anyone else. Just like God gives me free will to make a choice, I give it to others as well.  I would never enforce something on someone God himself wouldn't.  Besides if the republicans wanted to get rid of abortion, they would have. But they won't because it keeps the base right where they want them.
> 
> Yes Obama will have an uphill battle because of the how the last 8 years has set us back. But McCain doesn't have a clue about the middle class and how we are affected.  As far as the antichrist is concerned I am not worried because at the end of my bible, we win. We need more than just oil. Our problem is being too oil dependent PERIOD. We need to look into wind and solar energy as well.  We need to bring everything back home so we won't have to worry about China and owing all of these other countries. Focusing on other forms of energy like wind and solar will bring more jobs back to the US as well. We have to think outside the box and not just be one-sided that is how we got into a lot of the mess we are in today. Q



I see, and agree on the sadness of war and energy and so many things. I only gave my opinion, i don't feel to add anything else at this time but see where you are coming from.


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## MrsQueeny (Nov 1, 2008)

babydollhair said:


> I see, and agree on the sadness of war and energy and so many things. I only gave my opinion, i don't feel to add anything else at this time but see where you are coming from.



I see where you are coming from as well. We all want what's best for our country. We can discuss topics and keep it holy. Much love.  Q


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## momi (Nov 1, 2008)

babydollhair said:


> I just do not see how Obama is qualified to be the President of the United States, community organizer? little time in the senate, That's all its takes, oh and change. Without going into everthing, i don't see it, Joe biden said it when running... U mean in 2008 u have the morning after pill, condoms, birth control pills and you STILL want to give any woman the legal right to abort a baby in america, outside of rape/incest. 1970/2008 things have changed...so what is the real reason you still support abortion? *" I'm clinging to my Bible, as long as live Joker!" *


 
Warning: There is way to much truth in the above post.


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 1, 2008)

The Repubs promise the same thing ebery election and NEVER come through. If you ladies really believe that McCain and Palin care one bit about an aborted child I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. That's their way of tricking themselves out to Christians that think they're gonna have some kind of political pull with the candidates. 

How can you say don't abort an unborn baby but push for the death penalty? Isn't a life a life? Don't murder an unborn baby but make handguns, which ONLY purpose is to kill a human being, not animals, legal? Y'all need to stop clinging to y'all bibles and open them up and read them!!!!! 

Yes ladies, judge them on their stance, not the hypocritical crap and rhetoric they spew. Sarah Palin is a racist and a bigot and has ALREADY angered Arab nations. Forget the Arab nations, she has insult our Arab citizens. She is not slick in what she's doing. Even top REPUBLICAN politicians said she is not fit to be VP let alone President. 

Besides McCain doesn't even want her as VP It was the ONE thing the Christian right got out of the Republicans for their money. I am sooo glad Sarah was chosen. She is single handedly turn the Independent and undecided voters towards Obama. THEY can see her hatefulness and McCains. Why is it that the religious right can't? 

YEAH PALIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chicacanella (Nov 1, 2008)

I don't know if G. Craig Lewis is right or not but I will say this, yes I have come to the conclusion that it is wrong to abort a child.  But these are not just the issues that we should be voting on. It says in the bible that you should also care for orphans and widows, help the poor and feed the hungry...Republicans are not about that. Jesus said that the most important commandment behind loving God with all your heart, mind, soul is to love your neighbor as you love yourself.  Now, this does not seem to be something most Republicans are interested in doing...it seems like they are all about, "I got mine, so get yours." On the other hand, it seems that many Democrats have this moral stance of "If you don't ask for my advice, I won't give." So, on both sides you have people not loving their neighbor as they should, whether it be morally or giving financial support.

Now, this is what I believe should be the deciding factor. If any of the men are wrong, I would want someone who is open to correction from the holy spirit. Who would not be stubborn in their man-made idealogies or way of thinking, but will do what is right when God tells them. Who is that man? Well, I don't know. But I do believe in praying for our leaders believe that prayer can lead our nation in a way we want by God speaking to the hearts of our leaders. That is why we should not cease praying if Obama or McCain is elected, regardless which one is your choice. If Christians vote a certain way and continue to pray the candidate elected, then our nation will be led by God.  Prayer is very powerful, moreso than most people think. If you have so many prayers, petitions reaching heaven from righteous people, God is merciful and has enough grace to act on our behalf.  Please, don't forget that "the earnest prayer of a righteous man availeth much." Which is why I am fasting on Tuesday so that even though I want to see a black president and will vote for Obama unless I receive a revelation from the holy spirt, I even moreso want to see God's will done. May your will be done God, not mine...in Jesus name I pray. Amen.


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## momi (Nov 1, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> The Repubs promise the same thing ebery election and NEVER come through. If you ladies really believe that McCain and Palin care one bit about an aborted child I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. That's their way of tricking themselves out to Christians that think they're gonna have some kind of political pull with the candidates.
> 
> How can you say don't abort an unborn baby but push for the death penalty? Isn't a life a life? Don't murder an unborn baby but make handguns, which ONLY purpose is to kill a human being, not animals, legal? Y'all need to stop clinging to y'all bibles and open them up and read them!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
Actually, it was during a republican administration that the ban on partial birth abortion was passed, and also the proposal for the federal marriage amendment (that did not pass I might add). 


Am I reading your post correctly?  Are you comparing a convicted murderer to an unborn baby who has not even had a chance to enter the world?  

Yes a handgun can kill someone, but shouldn't a person have a right to protect themselves and their families?  

Things compared have to have equal characteristics. 

Are you quoting Obama with your clinging to your bibles comment?  What law or rule exactly are you referring to?  Please dont just throw out colloquialisms with no apparent basis or fact to back it up.


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 1, 2008)

momi said:


> Actually, it was during a republican administration that the ban on partial birth abortion was passed, and also the proposal for the federal marriage amendment (that did not pass I might add).
> 
> 
> Am I reading your post correctly? Are you comparing a convicted murderer to an unborn baby who has not even had a chance to enter the world?
> ...


 

A life is a life. Whether a convicted murderer or an unborn child. Yes I'm comparing them. Why is it wrong not to kill them as babies but ok to kill them as adults. And WHO are the majority of folks on death row? Is it white folks? Nope it PEOPLE OF COLOR!!!! And who are the majority of folks getting killed with handguns? Are they homeowners being invaded or the invaders that enter their home or white people? No but OUR people, people of color.

But let's talk about these babies the right are so desperate to save only during election time Who are they trying to save? WHITE BABIES. Yep more white women abort their babies than any other race. THOSE are the babies their fighting for. Not ours or anyone elses. This is not about anything but keeping them in the majority. They couldn't care less whether or not non white babies are aborted. If they cared so much why cut funding to help care for these babies who AREN'T aborted. 

Oh and I was quoting babydollhair on the clinging to the bible phrase. Whether it's her own or borrowed from anyone, don't know, don't care.

It's doesn't matter anyway Obama will win the election Tuesday!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chicacanella (Nov 2, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> A life is a life. Whether a convicted murderer or an unborn child. Yes I'm comparing them. Why is it wrong not to kill them as babies but ok to kill them as adults. And WHO are the majority of folks on death row? Is it white folks? Nope it PEOPLE OF COLOR!!!! And who are the majority of folks getting killed with handguns? Are they homeowners being invaded or the invaders that enter their home or white people? No but OUR people, people of color.
> 
> But let's talk about these babies the right are so desperate to save only during election time Who are they trying to save? WHITE BABIES. Yep more white women abort their babies than any other race. THOSE are the babies their fighting for. Not ours or anyone elses. This is not about anything but keeping them in the majority. They couldn't care less whether or not non white babies are aborted.* If they cared so much why cut funding to help care for these babies who AREN'T aborted. *
> 
> ...


 
Wow, the bolded is a good point and I would like to ask, "Is funding for abortion cut among the republicans?" I mean, it's great to talk all this stuff but I am what their actions show? How are they cutting the funding of abortion clinics?


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## momi (Nov 2, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> A life is a life. Whether a convicted murderer or an unborn child. Yes I'm comparing them. Why is it wrong not to kill them as babies but ok to kill them as adults. And WHO are the majority of folks on death row? Is it white folks? Nope it PEOPLE OF COLOR!!!! And who are the majority of folks getting killed with handguns? Are they homeowners being invaded or the invaders that enter their home or white people? No but OUR people, people of color.
> 
> But let's talk about these babies the right are so desperate to save only during election time Who are they trying to save? WHITE BABIES. Yep more white women abort their babies than any other race. THOSE are the babies their fighting for. Not ours or anyone elses. This is not about anything but keeping them in the majority. They couldn't care less whether or not non white babies are aborted. If they cared so much why cut funding to help care for these babies who AREN'T aborted.
> 
> ...


 
I really believe that you just want to argue and not have a discussion so I will not make this reply very long.  There are too many untruths in your post to try and address and I am not here to argue or debate with anyone.  My purpose for posting in the Christian forum is to be a light to those who may read and it appears that you only want to be argumentative. God is still working with me on my patience... 

Also, many people think this is an issue only Christians care about.  That is not so - people of different faiths or no faith at all for that matter have determined that this gruesome procedure of death needs to come to an abrupt end. 

The question here is do you feel if it is wrong or right?  One should start there first I believe.  If you feel that some only care about the white babies, then maybe you should rise up and stand for the black babies...

Whoever is elected, I pray that those who have determined that abortion is vile and inhumane will hold their leaders accountable and push for the end of this murder.  Although I fear that Obama will have to repay those groups who have helped him in this election.


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 3, 2008)

momi said:


> I really believe that you just want to argue and not have a discussion so I will not make this reply very long. There are too many untruths in your post to try and address and I am not here to argue or debate with anyone. My purpose for posting in the Christian forum is to be a light to those who may read and it appears that you only want to be argumentative. God is still working with me on my patience...
> 
> Also, many people think this is an issue only Christians care about. That is not so - people of different faiths or no faith at all for that matter have determined that this gruesome procedure of death needs to come to an abrupt end.
> 
> ...


 

You can believe what you want but you are the one whose post is full of errors. You have your point of view but that's all it is, your point of view. If McCain is the light that you bring, that light is from a dim bulb. 

The question is not whether one believes that abortion is wrong or not. The question is how can someone sit there and tell a bold face lie about having a passion for life and turn around and push to have handguns legalized, send thousands of AMERICANS to there deaths over oil, (I believe WE'VE  lost about 4,500 soldiers I don't even think that counts American civilians lost), or push for the death penalty which kills mostly black folks who commit crimes not white? 

You show me in the bible where Jesus says to destroy our enemies. You show me where the Lord says that one life is worth more than another. He said forgive those who trespass against us or am I mistaken about that also. Oh and what about all of the innocent folks who have been unjustly prosecuted and executed. The majority of those were who???? YEP black men!!!!! Where is the outcry for those lives????

Another question. If Jesus is our Rock and our SHIELD why would we have need of handguns to protect us? Forget about non Christians, let's talk about the Christians who push for and back these things. I thought that the weapons of our warfare were not carnal? Oh and shotguns and rifles will protect you just the same right? Why handguns? BECAUSE  MOSTLY BLACK FOLKS ARE KILLED WITH HANDGUNS!!!!!!! Our young black men. Our sons. If white boys were being killed with handguns they would have BEEN banned AND not backed by the NRA!!!!! Hand guns are easy for someone to conceal and easy to carry. It's hard to hide a shotgun or rifle under a hoodie or t-shirt. As long as it's black boys and other boys of color dying in our streets and not white ones the "CHRISTIAN" right have no problem with them.

Obama will have to repay those groups that have helped him win the election. McCain has  already repaid his with Sarah Palin. Who vetted Sarah and why was she chosen? 

I am ProLife and believe abortion is murder. I wish all abortion clinics went out of business BUT I have enough sense to know that NO president is EVER going to be able to overturn Roe vs. Wade. I also know that NO president will EVER end homosexual relationships so I would not even waste my vote on moral issues that are CHURCH issues not CIVIC issues. Is the president supposed to be the President of the right wing Christian or the President of the United States. The last time I checked, everyone in this country isn't Christian. The president is supposed to represent WE the people not SOME OF US the people. God has given us free will. If Jesus chose not to stop us from making a choice as to what we chose to do with and to our own bodies, why are we so hell bent to try and stop folks from doing it. Those are sins comitted against THEIR OWN BODIES!!!!!!!! It is their PERSONAL DECISION AND PERSONAL BUSINESS!!!! 

Oh and I do stand up for black women and their unborn children but with God's truth that ALL life is important not just white life and not just life of the unborn but the lives of those who are already here. Now when the religious right start lobbying against the death penalty and for handguns laws, THEN they will become credible. Right wingers want vengence not justice. Wouldn't it be better for the murderer on death row to live and have to be faced with the consequence of his actions for the rest of his life? Wouldn't it be in line with the will of God to let him or her live and give him the opportunity to repent, convert and go to heaven? Why aren't they pushing for those lives too? Why? Because they are not killing "acceptable" whites. There may be more whites on death row than blacks but how many of them are actually being executed compared to the non whites?

What about the children who are already here? Where are the laws pushing against child molesters, rapist and murderers to REMAIN in prison? Where are those lobbyists? Where is the outcry for THOSE babies. Why haven't the right demanded for THAT to be an issue in choosing our President? Let's not pick and choose which babies lives are worth fighting for.

We need to take the blinders off and ask God to reveal to us PERSONALLY how we should vote and what issues are important to Him instead of following blindly behind some candidate who KNOWS he can not ever stop abortion or gay relationships

Vote for who aligns with your civic needs or even those who are pushing for laws that are forced upon others not sins of free will and laws that will NEVER be overturned.


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## saved06 (Nov 5, 2008)

Only time will tell which prophecy holds true...


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 5, 2008)

Yes, only time will tell and folks are gonna learn from bold-faced lying on Jesus Let's all keep an eye on the future of these "ministries" to see what the *Lord's* response to their prophesies will be and to all of those who spewed that hatred


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## babydollhair (Nov 5, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> You can believe what you want but you are the one whose post is full of errors. You have your point of view but that's all it is, your point of view. If McCain is the light that you bring, that light is from a dim bulb.
> 
> The question is not whether one believes that abortion is wrong or not. The question is how can someone sit there and tell a bold face lie about having a passion for life and turn around and push to have handguns legalized, send thousands of AMERICANS to there deaths over oil, (I believe WE'VE  lost about 4,500 soldiers I don't even think that counts American civilians lost), or push for the death penalty which kills mostly black folks who commit crimes not white?
> 
> ...





Humbly I would take into consideration that as a believer you  have a dual citizenship.So while God can forgive a convicted murder for committing a homicide (s), there is still civil law here that can  result in capital punishment of the death penalty. The law is meant to protect and provide justice.The bible says the following in regard to authorities below. The taking of the life of unborn is totally seperate issue clearly,in comparison  that a child's life is taken without any transgression of the law except conception, while a person of death row is supposed to have been found guilty without reasonable doubt. :



Romans 13
 1LET EVERY person be loyally subject to the governing (civil) authorities. For there is no authority except from God [by His permission, His sanction], and those that exist do so by God's appointment.(A)
    2Therefore he who resists and sets himself up against the authorities resists what God has appointed and arranged [in divine order]. And those who resist will bring down judgment upon themselves [receiving the penalty due them].

    3For civil authorities are not a terror to [people of] good conduct, but to [those of] bad behavior. Would you have no dread of him who is in authority? Then do what is right and you will receive his approval and commendation.

    4For he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, [you should dread him and] be afraid, for he does not bear and wear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant to execute His wrath (punishment, vengeance) on the wrongdoer.

    5Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath and escape punishment, but also as a matter of principle and for the sake of conscience.

    6For this same reason you pay taxes, for [the civil authorities] are official servants under God, devoting themselves to attending to this very service.

    7Render to all men their dues. [Pay] taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, and honor to whom honor is due.




Again with dual citizenship a believer has the protection and authority in God, also as american you the right to bear arms and to practice self defense. God is not mad if protect yourself. The Lord did not correct his servants, but clearly instructed them in the passage below to get swords.


*Luke22:36

     36Then He said to them, But now let him who has a purse take it, and also [his provision] bag; and let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy a sword.

    37For I tell you that this Scripture must yet be fulfilled in Me: And He was counted and classed among the wicked (the outlaws, the criminals); for what is written about Me has its fulfillment [has reached its end and is finally settled].(E)

    38And they said, Look, Lord! Here are two swords. And He said to them, It is enough.*


 As a believer it is important to look at scripture in its proper context and ask God for understanding and wisdom to truely discern that which is good and evil, maturing from milk to meat. 


Hebrew 5:14

*14But solid food is for full-grown men, for those whose senses and mental faculties are trained by practice to discriminate and distinguish between what is morally good and noble and what is evil and contrary either to divine or human law.*

Also i think in keeping along some of your points,i do not know that the bible states that God does no longer judge nations for the sins of the people? Within the bible it is clear that God will intervene to take his hand off a nation, chastise a nation, and also i have seen were He even destoryed some of them, because of the sins of the people. 

Just wished to share that...


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## babydollhair (Nov 5, 2008)

double post edited


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 6, 2008)

Answers in below in red.



babydollhair said:


> Humbly I would take into consideration that as a believer you have a dual citizenship.So while God can forgive a convicted murder for committing a homicide (s), there is still civil law here that can result in capital punishment of the death penalty. The law is meant to protect and provide justice.The bible says the following in regard to authorities below. The taking of the life of unborn is totally seperate issue clearly,in comparison that a child's life is *taken without any transgression of the law except conception, *while a person of death row is *supposed to have been found guilty without reasonable doubt. :*
> 
> *So you do not believe that God can convert the sinner or is it only the not so bad in society's eye sinners? Let me ask you this. What about the innocent people who were wrongly accused and received the death penalty? They weren't murderers just black men used as scapegoats. A life sentence would have spared them from dying over someone elses sin. NO innocent life is worth losing.*
> 
> ...


 
*JESUS* said," No longer say an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth......". When the woman was brought to Jesus who was caught in the act of fornication which was the LAW did Jesus say "Well you know, guys you're right. She broke MY law so kill her? Nope, JESUS said "He that is without sin among you let him cast the first stone at her". Then after they were convicted in their hearts and left, Jesus asked,"Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said No man Lord and our Lord said"Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more". Jesus chose not to condemn this woman guilty of breaking the law of death.


 Aren't we supposed to follow HIS example and the civil authorities as long as it doesn't conflict with what Jesus, The Word of God says? Or does civil law trump Him too? Oh and Jesus called Zachias the theiving tax collector innocent. Maybe we should begin to see the guilty as He does and spare their lives as He has. ALL life is precious!!!!!


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## babydollhair (Nov 6, 2008)

These scriptures do bring clarification to several issues you raised and there more if you take the time to research them. Ms. Honey i think many questions regarding God's position are in the bible. I know that black people have received many injustices done to them throughout history, not to take away from that but other groupings ( indians, jews, women,chinese,japanese, children, the list could go on) have too! Only God can bring the healing, and transformation in anyones life! Only God can bring the delieverance that the world so desperately needs. In  the scripture new testament or old, you can see that many christian people had/and still presently have injustice done to them: 

 beatings, slavery, torture, imprisonment, etc. and that continues on today as we speak, for his namesake, people are held at gunpoint,killed, raped, beaten, maimed all over this world, does that make God any less righteous, loving, holy or his people, or his word anyless true? Does that deserve protesting, lobbyist, etc? 

Was not the Lord himself cruicified without doing anything wrong, sinless, blameless, like lamb lead to the slaughter, yet he did not open his mouth!  

I encourage you to be open to the leading of the spirit truth which is God, which is also the word, which is readily available to anyone who seeks to find it. Take care and feel free to pm me.


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 6, 2008)

For the record I do believe that abortion is murder and I'm against it BUT I believe that it is not for us to stop adults from making decisions of *free will *as pertaining to their own bodies.  That's a church issue not a state issue.

 I believe that muderers need to be punished for their crimes but I believe that they should be given LIFE sentences not DEATH sentences. Let them spend the rest of their lives in prison and not get off easy with the death penalty. Make them live and suffer the consequences for their actions. Anything more is vengence and that belongs to the Lord. We as Christians should be offering them the gift of salvation as ALL OTHER SINNERS including myself have been offered. They can't receive that salvation from the grave.

I also do not have a problem with owning guns. I have stated in this thread my problem is with handguns. If the Lord can't protect you, then why not use a rifle or shotguns or a sword if we'regoing to the scripture that was quoted above? Handguns are being used to kill so many of our young men AND innocent victims. They are also a danger to law officers because they are easily concealed. They need to remain illegal.


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 6, 2008)

babydollhair said:


> These scriptures do bring clarification to several issues you raised and there more if you take the time to research them. Ms. Honey i think many questions regarding God's position are in the bible. I know that black people have received many injustices done to them throughout history, not to take away from that but other groupings ( indians, jews, women,chinese,japanese, children, the list could go on) have too! Only God can bring the healing, and transformation in anyones life! Only God can bring the delieverance that the world so desperately needs. In the scripture new testament or old, you can see that many christian people had/and still presently have injustice done to them:
> 
> beatings, slavery, torture, imprisonment, etc. and that continues on today as we speak, for his namesake, people are held at gunpoint, raped, beaten, maimed all over this world, does that make God any less righteous, loving, holy or his people? Does that deserve protesting, lobbyist, etc?
> 
> ...


 
What are you talking about?  

Who said no one else has suffered? We are talking about us, the US and it's laws. We are talking about how ALL life is innocent. Maybe you should take you own advice and seek the Lord for understanding instead of twisting the scriptures to support your parties and the religious right Christians interests. 

You and they have taken the scripture out of context and their is a consequence for that. For one, the loss of the presidential election and two the exposure of their ministries which are just around the corner.


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## momi (Nov 6, 2008)

@Ms. Honey


Is there some conclusion you are trying to draw - what exactly is the point you are trying to make?


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## babydollhair (Nov 6, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> Who said no one else has suffered? We are talking about us, the US and it's laws. We are talking about how ALL life is innocent. Maybe you should take you own advice and seek the Lord for understanding instead of twisting the scriptures to support your parties and the religious right Christians interests.
> 
> You and they have taken the scripture out of context and their is a consequence for that. For one, the loss of the presidential election and two the exposure of their ministries which are just around the corner.



Ms. Honey i have not taken the scripture out of context. It is there in the bible Jesus said sell your garment to buy sword.  luke 22:36, proper context (john18:10,11 reference) is that while Jesus gave a rebuke to Peter, in context with scripture Peter was not rebuked for having the sword rather why and when he used it.? That is not the only scripture either to reference in regard to personal self defense. That is a good  scripture to show what the Lord actually, WWJD? 

 Also i  posted the scripture to shed light on what the scripture outlines rather than make personal assumptions and generalizations...that is all.


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 6, 2008)

Let's not continue to go back and forth about who's wrong or right it's fruitless. The Lord will let His will be known to all involved.


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## babydollhair (Nov 6, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> Let's not continue to go back and forth about who's wrong or right it's fruitless. The Lord will let His will be known to all involved.



I agree to stop as i only wanted to bring scripture into this conversation relevant to what i was talking about.  I trust he will as well, that is  if he hasn't already, be blessed.


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## HeChangedMyName (Nov 6, 2008)

Ms.Honey said:


> Yes, only time will tell and folks are gonna learn from bold-faced lying on Jesus Let's all keep an eye on the future of these "ministries" to see what the *Lord's* response to their prophesies will be and to all of those who spewed that hatred




[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"But there were false prophets also among the people," writes Peter, "even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies..." (I Pet. 2: 1). We must "try the spirits," because "many false prophets are gone out into the world" (I Jn. 4: 1). False teachers teach what people want to hear (2 Tim. 4: 3, 4). They often appear righteous but their teaching and life identify them as false (Matt. 7: 15)


God will have the final say so, whether or not we like it.  His Word alone will stand the test of time.  There will be some good people going to Hell and some seemingly bad people who are smart enough to repent.
[/FONT]


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## Ms.Honey (Nov 6, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"But there were false prophets also among the people," writes Peter, "even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies..." (I Pet. 2: 1). We must "try the spirits," because "many false prophets are gone out into the world" (I Jn. 4: 1). False teachers teach what people want to hear (2 Tim. 4: 3, 4). They often appear righteous but their teaching and life identify them as false (Matt. 7: 15)[/FONT]
> 
> 
> [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]God will have the final say so, whether or not we like it. His Word alone will stand the test of time. There will be some good people going to Hell and some seemingly bad people who are smart enough to repent.[/FONT]


 
And let the church say AMEN!!!!


The Lord is purging His church. He will come for a bride without spot or blemish!!!!!He will tell the false prophet and prophetess" I never knew you you worker of iniquity" and cast them away from Him.
Amen and Amen


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## saved06 (Nov 7, 2008)

I wouldn't be so quick to count those prophets out. Remember Noah?


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## Shimmie (Nov 7, 2008)

SuperNova said:


> [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"But there were false prophets also among the people," writes Peter, "even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies..." (I Pet. 2: 1). We must "try the spirits," because "many false prophets are gone out into the world" (I Jn. 4: 1). False teachers teach what people want to hear (2 Tim. 4: 3, 4). They often appear righteous but their teaching and life identify them as false (Matt. 7: 15)[/FONT]
> 
> 
> [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]God will have the final say so, whether or not we like it. His Word alone will stand the test of time. There will be some good people going to Hell and some seemingly bad people who are smart enough to repent.[/FONT]


 
God always has the final say so.  I love what  read which someone posted by Pastor Kimberly Daniels (Jacksonville, FL).   

"God doesn't take sides, He just takes over!"  So be it a word or words, from Prophet yes or nay, right or wrong, spirit or flesh.... God takes over and it is He and His word which shall prevail!   

Gotta love it.  Just gotta!  

I've been around so many prophets in my life as a Believer.  Hmmmm, as God's word says, "We have this gift in earth vessels."  

Prone to err'   we all are!   But God!  Only God!  Is fully established, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.   Whom no man can take apart or even rebuild for his own beliefs.   

But God!


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## MrsQueeny (Nov 7, 2008)

saved06 said:


> I wouldn't be so quick to count those prophets out. Remember Noah?



Please believe God will bring the *false* prophets down. A change is def in the air and on the way!!!!!  Q


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## saved06 (Nov 7, 2008)

***Que*** said:


> Please believe God will bring the *false* prophets down. A change is def in the air and on the way!!!!!  Q


 
We shall see.


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## MrsQueeny (Nov 7, 2008)

saved06 said:


> We shall see.



     Q


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## HeChangedMyName (Nov 7, 2008)

***Que*** said:


> Please believe God will bring the *false* prophets down. A change is def in the air and on the way!!!!!  Q



I agree I do not want to be on the receiving end of not having been walking in the spirit of God and sending false prophesies out into the world.  God speaks to his people and his people are those who have accepted him in their hearts.  We can't judge anyone for whether or not they have done that, however, it is our duty to speak on any issues that go against the Word of God.  

John 10 says, 
25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one." 


Matthew 13 says,
11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (KJV)


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## saved06 (Jul 6, 2009)

Stay tuned folks....... 


Ephesians 5:6
1 Samuel 8


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