# What's Permissible in G-dly Marriage



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 19, 2009)

I thought I'd move this particular discussion to a new thread as not to hijack the "Saved and Sexy" discussion.


I found this article on Belief.net and it's brief about the major points of several religions concerning the types of sex permissible in marriage:

Sodomy laws in the original American colonies were based on common English sodomy laws. Sodomy was considered a crime and defined as non-procreative sexual practices that included masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex.

Both English and U.S. laws derived from religious rules about sodomy. In 1683, Pennsylvania called sodomy an "unnatural sin," and New Jersey declared it among "offenses against God." By 1960, all U.S. states had laws in place against sodomy. 

Since then, most states have repealed sodomy laws, though 14 states maintain laws banning it either between homosexuals or between both homosexuals and heterosexuals. For many religions, the question of whether sexual acts that do not result in procreation are allowed is still a hot issue. Here's a look at what the major faiths say about non-procreative sexual acts. 
Judaism
Jewish laws about non-procreative sex usually stem from the biblical story of Onan, in Genesis, when Onan sleeps with his dead brother's wife but doesn't ejaculate. Instead he "spilt the seed on the ground," so as not to give his brother offspring, and God slew Onan for spilling his seed. Some strict Jewish interpretations use this as reference for banning all sexual acts that don't lead to procreation, such as masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex. 
But more liberal Jewish interpretations see Onan's crime not as spilling his seed but as refusing to father offspring for his deceased brother, and deliberately withdrawing from his sister-in-law for that purpose, thereby using another person sexually in the process. Judaism strongly encourages sex for pleasure (within the context of marriage). Therefore Onan's crime does not necessarily prohibit all non-procreative sex acts. As Rabbi Shmuley Boteach writes in "Kosher Sex," ".in oral sex the purpose is not to destroy seed. Rather it is to try something new and pleasurable, something that will cause husband and wife to increase their dependency on each other, and lessen their dependency on strangers. To repeat: Judaism opposes the willfull destruction of seed, but not sexual practices that may sometimes involve the spilling of seed, but which are pursued for purposes of pleasuring husband and wife." 
Though strict Jewish law prohibits sodomy, many interpret Jewish laws about non-procreative sex to be less prohibitive, because the sexual pleasure of both man and woman are so important. 
Catholicism
Catholicism teaches that sexual intimacy is a gift to married heterosexual couples; God intended for them to "experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit." The Church teaches that sex has two ends: "The good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life." These two meanings--which Catholic doctrine calls the "unitive" and "procreative" functions of sex--"cannot be separated." The Catechism says homosexual acts "are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved"


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 19, 2009)

Christianity - General
Christianity teaches that sexual union between husband and wife is primarily for procreation, though sexual pleasure is important as well. The bible prohibits homosexual sex and sodomy, though it is mostly silent on heterosexual sodomy. Conservative Christians teach that sodomy is wrong and that any homosexual acts are deviant. As biblical scholar Ben Witherington writes, " Not all forms of sexual sharing, even between consenting adults, can be affirmed as either good or "normal", however "natural" certain desires may seem." Many Christian denominations, however, have more liberal stances toward homosexuality, allowing gay clergy and ordaining gay marriage.
Mormon
Mormons believe sex is sacred and is primarily a procreative act. Former Latter-Day Saints President Spencer W. Kimball has written: "The union of the sexes, husband and wife (and only husband and wife), was for the principal purpose of bringing children into the world. Sexual experiences were never intended by the Lord to be a mere plaything or merely to satisfy passions and lusts." He continues, "There are some people who have said that behind the bedroom doors anything goes. That is not true and the Lord would not condone it." More on Mormonism and sexuality.

Buddhism
Buddhists generally believe that all sexual desire is something to overcome, like other forms of attachment. Buddhists do not believe that humans have an obligation to procreate, and celibacy is seen by many Buddhist traditions as a step on the path to enlightenment. Buddhist teaching doesn't normally distinguish between what type of sex is appropriate and what is not, though some believe Buddhism prohibits oral and anal sex. The Buddha did not teach about homosexuality or homosexual behavior. Although the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan Buddhism leader, has made statements against homosexual relationships and has said that lesbian and gay sex is "sexual misconduct," many Buddhists interpret Buddhism as more accepting of homosexuality than other religions.

Hinduism
Hinduism does not have specific laws about sodomy, but the tradition does teach that sex is primarily for procreation. According to Hinduism Today, "Hinduism neither condones nor condemns birth control, sterilization, masturbation, homosexuality, petting, polygamy or pornography."

Islam
Traditional Islam prohibits sodomy, both between heterosexual couples and members of the same sex. As one hadith explains, "Allah (SWT) will not look at the man who commits sodomy with a man or a woman" (Sahih Al-Tirmithi). Muslims who interpret the Qur'an and hadith strictly believe Islam condemns homosexuality and considers it a deviant act.


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## PaperClip (Mar 19, 2009)

The Apostle Paul said this twice:

1 Corinthians 6:12-13 (Amplified)
12Everything is permissible (allowable and lawful) for me; but not all things are helpful (good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things). Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything or be brought under its power. 

    13Food [is intended] for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will finally end [the functions of] both and bring them to nothing. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but [is intended] for the Lord, and the Lord [is intended] for the body [[a]to save, sanctify, and raise it again].


1 Corinthians 10:23 (Amplified)
  23All things are legitimate [permissible--and we are free to do anything we please], but not all things are helpful (expedient, profitable, and wholesome). All things are legitimate, but not all things are constructive [to character] and edifying [to spiritual life].


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 19, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> The Apostle Paul said this twice:
> 
> 1 Corinthians 6:12-13 (Amplified)
> 12Everything is permissible (allowable and lawful) for me; but not all things are helpful (good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things). Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything or be brought under its power.
> ...


 

Which is why I think the decision is between the couple, in this case.  It's not clearly spelled out in scripture LOL.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 20, 2009)

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not* surely *die: 
Gen 3:5 *For God doth know *............


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 20, 2009)

Sound familiar?


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## Aviah (Mar 20, 2009)

*Post deleted, see below*


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## Aviah (Mar 20, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
> 
> Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
> 
> ...





Ms.Honey said:


> Sound familiar?



I don't get it...


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## moonglowdiva (Mar 20, 2009)

*Bind the devil and pray about it. Seek Jesus. End subject.*


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 20, 2009)

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of *every* tree of the garden? 

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, *neither shall ye touch it*, lest ye die. 

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not *surely **die*: 
Gen 3:5 * For God doth know *............

Gen 3:8 And they heard the *voice *of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day...........

Jesus is the voice of God and He walked in the garden in the cool of the day. Why didn't she just wait and ask God? Why was she listening to someone else other than God and not getting the answer directly from Him? She talked to God about other things but why not this? The result of not asking God is before you make a decision is............

A lot of confusion and sorrow would have never occured in Eve's life if she had just asked God instead of trying to interpret what God said on her own. Jesus, the Voice of God which is the Word of God, never told her not to touch the tree. He told her TO touch the tree and take care of it she misinterpreted the Word. Then instead of asking her DH  her next line of authority (after seeking first God) she listened to another's interpretation of what God said. 

JUST.ASK.JESUS.YOURSELF!!!!      HE.IS RIGHT.THERE.WITH.YOU.!!!!!!!


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## discobiscuits (Mar 20, 2009)

A friend of mine said this when some of us at church discussed a similar topic: When in doubt, leave it out.

I'll never forget the day that my former pastor said, bright and early on a Sunday morning (paraphrased):
"I'm tired of newly weds asking me about the marriage bed and what they can and cannot do.

The mouth is for food! The anus is for defecation!

Don't ask me anything else."

I almost fell out. You could hear a pin drop and the only noise you could hear were the unmarrieds snickering. It really was funny.

I'd never ask my religious leader for permission or the Godly thumbs up in my marriage bed. 

You are correct with this:


GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Which is why I think the decision is between the couple, in this case.  It's not clearly spelled out in scripture LOL.



I was also reminded by same said friend that people look for the bible to speak specifically on everything and it does not. The bible is silent on some topics. Some things are truly not spelled out in scripture. That is when you ask the Holy Spirit for help or just let go of whatever the 'it' is and leave it with God.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 20, 2009)

1star said:


> A friend of mine said this when some of us at church discussed a similar topic: When in doubt, leave it out.
> 
> I'll never forget the day that my former pastor said, bright and early on a Sunday morning (paraphrased):
> "I'm tired of newly weds asking me about the marriage bed and what they can and cannot do.
> ...


 
Exactly.  Otherwise, you get "advice" from people who simply do not know and are bent upon getting one to see things from their particular perspective and tastes.  So, if one prays and seeks G-d about it, person X might have a different answer from person Z.  Afterall, they are personally seeking an answer in their own lives about it.  What I don't wish to see is person X condemning person Z for their own choices and direction.  That happens all to often in this CF.  Some just cannot even take their own advice.


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## MA2010 (Mar 21, 2009)

1star said:


> A friend of mine said this when some of us at church discussed a similar topic: When in doubt, leave it out.
> 
> I'll never forget the day that my former pastor said, bright and early on a Sunday morning (paraphrased):
> "I'm tired of newly weds asking me about the marriage bed and what they can and cannot do.
> ...


 

Your pastor's quote is fuuuunnnyyyyy!!!


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 21, 2009)

Manushka said:


> Your pastor's quote is fuuuunnnyyyyy!!!


 

LOL.  I actually agree with it.  But I do know people into A-sex.  It's hard for me even to type that one.  As I said before, I don't wanna judge their decision since it's not exactly forbidden in scripture.  But for me, actually, I wish to have full control of my sphincter muscle, esp. in public


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## Enchantmt (Mar 21, 2009)

This might help:

http://themarriagebed.com/


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## discobiscuits (Mar 22, 2009)

Manushka said:


> Your pastor's quote is fuuuunnnyyyyy!!!



Girl, good times indeed @ that place. 

He was sooooo heated when he said that though. It was hilarious.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 22, 2009)

There are no gray areas or unknowns with God He is clear. WE want to make it seem unknown. He said I will not leave you ignorant and He does not lie.

*Rom 1:17*For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
*Rom 1:18*For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
*Rom 1:19*Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
*Rom 1:20**For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:*
*Rom 1:21*Because that, *when they knew God*, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; *but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.* 

For the *invisible things* of God(stuff that's not spelled out in detail) can CLEARLY be seen being UNDERSTOOD by the things that are made(his other creations).

Female animals do NOT perform oral sex on male animals. Male animals do NOT perform oral sex on female animals. Male animals do not perform anal sex on female animals and vice versa (yeah cuz wives are performing anal on their husbands too). Neither do animals use sex toys.



*Rom 1:22*Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
*Rom 1:23*And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.*Rom 1:24**Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:**Rom 1:25**Who changed the truth of God into a lie,* and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

He is speaking about straights here. Amen ends one thought before going into another correct? We end our prayers with Amen correct?
THEN he starts to speak of gays in the next verses. Before that he's speaking of what straights are doing sexually.


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## pebbles (Mar 23, 2009)

Surely we're not considered to be the same as animals? 

Frankly, I think there needs to be a consensus reached. People have differing views on the matter, period. There is no biblical scripture specifically condemning oral sex, so the matter remains open to interpretation. Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you. I won't condemn anyone here for what happens or doesn't in their marriage bed. I don't have a heaven or hell to put anyone in.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 23, 2009)

No, we should be at least above other mammals. They are driven by natural instinct and have not sinned and can not sin against God. Even they await the return of the Lord because of man's sin and aren't where they need to be.

When God presented Eve to Adam she had no need for additional props to help her. She was fit and adaptable a help meet (able) to meet his needs.

The scripture is clear but we will not see. Since we know that the Lord has set His leaders to edify the church I would like to know what everyones OWN Church's belief is on oral, anal and other sexual things. Afterall that's where the Lord sent us to know more about His word and to be edified. We can at least agree with what the authority Jesus set us personally under says right?


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 23, 2009)

pebbles said:


> Surely we're not considered to be the same as animals?
> 
> Frankly, I think there needs to be a consensus reached. People have differing views on the matter, period. There is no biblical scripture specifically condemning oral sex, so the matter remains open to interpretation. Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you. I won't condemn anyone here for what happens or doesn't in their marriage bed. I don't have a heaven or hell to put anyone in.


 

I believe the issue makes so many people "embarassed" to talk about it.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's the men who are pushing for it.  And absolutely, prayer for anything in life is what we should do.  G-d is central.  

But if someone feels bad for doing it...that's not okay for the husband to push it because he's only benefitting himself.   From reading about it from a variety of sources, I've never gotten 1 religious consensus that indicates what is permissible or not.  I just know that if one doesn't feel comfortable, one should not be "forced" to do so.  Women have been objectified by their spouses for such.  And although it is not new, are the religious seeking answers because they also have been influenced by this sex-obsessed/p*rn* influenced society?


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

*Jesus *who is our first example who IS *INERRANT, NEVER WRONG* and *KNOWS ALL THINGS, STILL *went to the Lord in prayer *EVEN *when He knew He knew the correct answer. But WE who know we sin daily STILL wanna say, "No, I don't need to pray about it specifically, find out what my church says on these subjects because I DON'T SEE......." I don't remember that scripture that says that's what were to do. It's very telling when prayer warriors won't specifically pray about something.

*Mar 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. *

Jesus *KNEW* what He had to do *YET* HE still prayed to the Father.

Ladies who say they've prayed on it, did you ask God if you were indeed correct in your interpretation that all sexual activities or at least the ones you believe are fine were fine with Jesus? 

See this is what I'm saying. No one will even pray," Lord, *I* believe that oral sex and other sexual activities are fine from everything I've read, heard and from what it brings in terms of pleasure to the marriage bed. Lord I don't see ANYWHERE in the bible where you say we can't participate in sexual activities including oral, anal, masturbation, sex toys, etc. Father, I believe I am correct I know that *I AM NOT INERRANT* but You are so I would like confirmation from you that I am correct in my belief or correct me if I am wrong. In Jesus' name, Amen."

No one is praying about it but praying around it. Folks still won't just come right out and ask Him. *For those who are willing to hear*, go STRAIGHT to the source, your source God the Father and go in Jesus' name and just* ask* Him if it is *indeed* ok.


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## pebbles (Mar 24, 2009)

How in the world can you know that no one is praying about it? Because they haven’t come to the same conclusion as you have? That isn’t right. The intimate acts that take place between husband and wife is not up for the critique or judgments of others. Yes, I understand that you don't like it when we point out that GOD is silent about sex acts in marriage, but HE is. There's no getting around it. 

I fervently hope that nothing said in these threads has caused wives who were otherwise happy and fulfilled in their sex lives to now be uncomfortable and distant with their husbands in bed, because that just brings about tension and stress, and none of us needs to be the cause of that. The only person who ever walked the face of this earth free of any and all sexual sin was CHRIST JESUS. Everybody else brings their own attitudes and opinions to the subject. Let's not forget that.


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

pebbles said:


> Surely we're not considered to be the same as animals?
> 
> Frankly, I think there needs to be a consensus reached. People have differing views on the matter, period. There is no biblical scripture specifically condemning oral sex, so the matter remains open to interpretation. Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you. I won't condemn anyone here for what happens or doesn't in their marriage bed. I don't have a heaven or hell to put anyone in.


 
Pebs, I could not agree with you more.  You are so right!    Neither can  I  judge any married couple for what they 'agree' to do in their bedroom.    That's their business.  I'm not concerned with it. 

As long as a husband and wife are equally yoked in their bedroom, who am I to say anything about it?   They are happy; as long as they have a  threesome with Jesus and no one else, it's ordained.    It's between them and the Lord.   

I know I don't want someone else or their theories or opinions or *'their' *Biblical translations up in my bedroom with me and my husband.   Put the kids to bed, turn off the TV, kick the dog out, put the cat in the basement; the bird back in it's cage; and mama goes home (his mama ).    

Shoot, I waited long enough to have him all to myself.   It's our 'shimmie' time and I'm not spending it with anyone else except him.  

  This is what I don't get;  just how hard is it to have sex?   

Did something change that we don't know about?   The man has his parts, the woman has all of hers and ............................................... they know what to do all on their own (the anatomy does); it's not rocket science.   

Just do it!   

If the parts don't fit then quit!


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

pebbles said:


> How in the world can you know that no one is praying about it? Because they haven’t come to the same conclusion as you have? That isn’t right. The intimate acts that take place between husband and wife is not up for the critique or judgments of others. Yes, I understand that you don't like it when we point out that GOD is silent about sex acts in marriage, but HE is. There's no getting around it.
> 
> I fervently hope that nothing said in these threads has caused wives who were otherwise happy and fulfilled in their sex lives to now be uncomfortable and distant with their husbands in bed, because that just brings about tension and stress, and none of us needs to be the cause of that. The only person who ever walked the face of this earth free of any and all sexual sin was CHRIST JESUS. Everybody else brings their own attitudes and opinions to the subject. Let's not forget that.


 
Because when they pm me they are saying that they HAVE NOT PRAYED AND ASKED HIM DIRECTLY THAT'S HOW!!!!!! God is silent on NOTHING.

ETA: This is a PUBLIC OPEN FORUM unlike other forums on this board and we need to be durn sure we are correct before we start telling folks stuff about sexual activities. When suggesting that people pray to God directly and finding out their *OWN* church's stance on certain subjects becomes dismissed it is very telling.


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## pebbles (Mar 24, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Because when they pm me they are saying that they HAVE NOT PRAYED AND ASKED HIM DIRECTLY THAT'S HOW!!!!!! *God is silent on NOTHING.*



Really? So you have found passage about oral sex between husband and wife? And please, don't yell and get upset. It's a discussion.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

pebbles said:


> Really? So you have found passage about oral sex between husband and wife? And please, don't yell and get upset. It's a discussion.


 
I'm not yelling, I'm trying to be clear. Everyone needs to pray and ask God directly THEMSELVES and not go by anyone's personal belief, not *theirs *not *mine* not *yours *or *anyone elses on this forum*.

Pray, ask God and also find out what our *OWN* church's teachings are on the subject.


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## pebbles (Mar 24, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Because when they pm me they are saying that they HAVE NOT PRAYED AND ASKED HIM DIRECTLY THAT'S HOW!!!!!! God is silent on NOTHING.
> 
> E*TA: This is a PUBLIC OPEN FORUM unlike other forums on this board and we need to be durn sure we are correct before we start telling folks stuff about sexual activities. When suggesting that people pray to God directly and finding out their OWN church's stance on certain subjects becomes dismissed it is very telling.*



I know very well that this is a public forum, and I'm alway careful about what I say, and my attitude on it. You seem to get upset when people are not agreeing with you. Surely we're entitled to have our own opinions? I'd like to express mine, just as you express yours without having anyone jump on me for having a different opinion. I'm not attacking you, so don't attack me.


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## pebbles (Mar 24, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I'm not yelling, I'm trying to be clear. Everyone needs to pray and ask God directly THEMSELVES and not go by anyone's personal belief, not *theirs *not *mine* not *yours *or *anyone elses on this forum*.
> 
> Pray, ask God and also find out what our *OWN* church's teachings are on the subject.



Who said people shouldn't pray? I didn't. I clearly said in my earlier post:

"Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you."

That means people need to pray about it.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

pebbles said:


> I know very well that this is a public forum, and I'm alway careful about what I say, and my attitude on it. You seem to get upset when people are not agreeing with you. Surely we're entitled to have our own opinions? I'd like to express mine, just as you express yours without having anyone jump on me for having a different opinion. I'm not attacking you, so don't attack me.


 
I don't care if people agree with me or not but it irks me when folks act like praying is not necessary. We make mistakes, we are not inerrant.
Yes, I express my opinion and you express yours but they are OUR opinions and they differ. You are expressing your opinion just as unyieldingly as I am expressing mine but because mine are opposite it's judging right? Whatever


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

pebbles said:


> Who said people shouldn't pray? I didn't. I clearly said in my earlier post:
> 
> "Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you."
> 
> That means people need to pray about it.


 
I didn't say YOU said don't pray but you made this a personal attack on you WHEN I wasn't addressing you in the first place and made it clear who I was talking to. "Ladies who said they have prayed on it".


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

pebbles said:


> How in the world can you know that no one is praying about it? Because they haven’t come to the same conclusion as you have? That isn’t right. The intimate acts that take place between husband and wife is not up for the critique or judgments of others. Yes, I understand that you don't like it when we point out that GOD is silent about sex acts in marriage, but HE is. There's no getting around it.
> 
> *I fervently hope that nothing said in these threads has caused wives who were otherwise happy and fulfilled in their sex lives to now be uncomfortable and distant with their husbands in bed, because that just brings about tension and stress, and none of us needs to be the cause of that. The only person who ever walked the face of this earth free of any and all sexual sin was CHRIST JESUS. Everybody else brings their own attitudes and opinions to the subject. Let's not forget that*.


 
Pebs, thank you for sharing this.   Marriage is tough enough without sexual tensions, so why add to it? 

I pray that every wife and wife to be and their husbands will just simply love one another and flow;  to take flight far and above every hindrance that would keep them from enjoying the beautiful gifts that they have as man and wife.

Father I pray and ask that you give them each total peace and understanding of one another, to dwell with one another according to knowledge of one another's needs and NOT the needs of those outside. 

Bless their sexual love with a passion such as you expressed in Song of Solomon and even more, give them the beauty of the Garden of Eden when Adam 'knew' his wife, Eve.   He 'knew' her, meaning every inch, centimeter, crevice, pulse, and surface and even beneath her surface....

She, Eve was HIS wife.   He, Adam was HER husband.   Husbands and Wives 'explore' one another, as did Adam and Eve.   They adored what they discovered about one another; and it was and is meant to be.  Eve, afterall was 'Flesh of Adam's Flesh".  Does a man not explore that of his own flesh?     For God has plainly said,  (Gen 2:24-25)

_".... and the husband and wife were naked and they were not ashamed."_ 

I pray this for every single man and woman.   Explore and Adore!   Yes!  Explore and Adore each other to the fullest extent of your being.  

Be not afraid, nor be dismayed; be not resistant nor embarrassed to explore and to enjoy one another to the fullest degree of measure and beyond.  

It's legal!  It's NOT sin!  For God has given you the license to do just so.   Flow with the love that you feel for one another and 'keep' nor hold back, all of what you feel.  

Wives....... Love you husbands.  You've waited a long time for him; love him and enjoy him and allow no one to put you assunder.   Be his Beautiful Help Meet 'beyond' suitable.   Give him wonderful adventures to come home to and most of all, Sweet Peace and that 'Sweet  Peace' is totally you.  

Be happy and be free.   You have Jesus on your side.  Be happy. 

Always, 

In Jesus' Name

Amen and Amen


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## pebbles (Mar 24, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I don't care if people agree with me or not but it irks me when folks act like praying is not necessary. We make mistakes, we are not inerrant.
> Yes, I express my opinion and you express yours but they are OUR opinions and they differ. You are expressing your opinion just as unyieldingly as I am expressing mine but because mine are opposite it's judging right? Whatever



Why the attitude? You mean to tell me that as Christian women we can't discuss an issue with out getting heated and rolling eyes? Seriously? The atmosphere here should be different than what we see on the rest of the forums, but if it bothers you that much and you can't discuss it without the attitude then stay out of the discussion and let the rest of us who can be friendly about it talk between us.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

pebbles said:


> Why the attitude? You mean to tell me that as Christian women we can't discuss an issue with out getting heated and rolling eyes? Seriously? The atmosphere here should be different than what we see on the rest of the forums, but if it bothers you that much and you can't discuss it without the attitude then stay out of the discussion and let the rest of us who can be friendly about it talk between us.


 
Ummm, excuse me but you came at me with an attitude when you directed that post towards me. Were you being "friendly"?


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## discobiscuits (Mar 24, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> If the parts don't fit then quit!



I'm done with Shimmie


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

Pebbles let's not further hijack this thread. If you have anything else to say to me, pm me.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 24, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Put the kids to bed, turn off the TV, kick the dog out, put the cat in the basement; the bird back in it's cage; and mama goes home (his mama ).


 
...and put the car in the garage!  I couldn't resist!


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## pebbles (Mar 24, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Ummm, excuse me but you came at me with an attitude when you directed that post towards me. Were you being "friendly"?



I'm sorry, but I wasn't trying to be rude by asking what I did. My apologies if you took it that way.


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## pebbles (Mar 24, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Pebbles let's not further hijack this thread. If you have anything else to say to me, pm me.



It won't be necessary, and I can take care of any posts I feel have hijacked the thread, but thanks anyway.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

pebbles said:


> I'm sorry, but I wasn't trying to be rude by asking what I did. My apologies if you took it that way.


 
No problem hon and I wasn't attacking you or judging anyone else whether they believe that or not.


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## Crown (Mar 24, 2009)

And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? * For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heave*n.(Mark 12:24-25)

We can have sex with no desire to become pregnant and have a baby, a family, but:

**What's the real purpose of sex?* A big family on earth for GOD.
So God created man in his _own_ image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And GOD blessed them, and GOD said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion... (Genesis 1:27-28)

**Can we procreate by mouth or anus?* NO.

*And hath made of one blood all nations of men* for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;  17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:  17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.  17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.  17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:  17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by _that_ man whom he hath ordained; _whereof_ he hath given assurance unto all _men,_ in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts 17: 26-31)


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## aribell (Mar 24, 2009)

In general, as far as sex between a husband and wife is concerned, I think that the Lord would have us not be legalistic in looking for Him to specifically say "Yes you can do x, y, and z; but no, you can't do z, y, and x;" But he wants us to be "_wise_ and understand what the will of the Lord is."  I think it's about discernment and applying general Scriptural principles, even if x act isn't explicitly approved of or forbidden.  

In light of that principle, we are all always obligated in however we treat our spouse to in that act be loving them as we love ourselves, to be loving God, and to not be acting lustfully, _i.e. using them merely as a means to our physical pleasure._ (this is still possible between married people)

I think common sense also plays a part in this.  There are certain physical acts that cause physical harm to our bodies, and increase our risk of harm because they are being used in a way that they weren't designed to be used.  Maybe the Bible hasn't explicitly forbidden them, but could you imagine coming to Jesus asking Him if it's okay to have sex in a way that damages certain body parts and may prevent certain organs from functioning properly in the future?  Would He be okay with that?  Probably not.  


Overall, I don't think that coming down one way or the other has anything to do with judging another couple, I think it's just about growing in understanding of God's purpose for sex.  We talk about and come to conclusions about everything else, why not this too?


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

Crown said:


> And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? *For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heave*n.(Mark 12:24-25)
> 
> We can have sex with no desire to become pregnant and have a baby, a family, but:
> 
> ...


 
Amen.

What is the abomination that occurs between two people of the same sex? Not love and caring we should all do that. 

Imagine nude healthy couples, one straight couple, two nude men and two nude women just standing there. Look at the straight couple what do you see? When you look at the gay couples what do you see? The straight couple is *equipped* to have sexual intercourse but the gay couples? *No ability to have intercourse*!! So they have to find *alternatives* to intercourse. *THAT* is the abomination. The *alternative sex*. People can not be abominations *EVER that's why we can be redeemed.* It is the *ACTS *that are the abomination. When straight couples choose the alternative to sexual intercourse we commit the abomination also.


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## aribell (Mar 24, 2009)

Also, to add.  I agree with the prayers that no woman leave here with a defiled conscience where her heart was pure before God.  We Christians often do one another a disservice in making one another feel guilty about things that the Lord has not condemned because that is what we believe the Lord has said is right.

I don't think the wrong is in saying that something is not right, but is in saying to another Christian that their _heart_ is not right before God.  Only God can judge the purity of someone else's heart--we cannot.  *But* we are supposed to be discerning about people's actions.  We are supposed to be able to come together and figure out the Lord's mind about a particular thing.  I think the quality of our fellowship with one another as believers depends on how deeply we are willing to engage and even challenge one another.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Also, to add. I agree with the prayers that no woman leave here with a defiled conscience where her heart was pure before God. We Christians often do one another a disservice in making one another feel guilty about things that the Lord has not condemned because that is what we believe the Lord has said is right.
> 
> I don't think the wrong is in saying that something is not right, but is in saying to another Christian that their _heart_ is not right before God. Only God can judge the purity of someone else's heart--we cannot. *But* we are supposed to be discerning about people's actions. We are supposed to be able to come together and figure out the Lord's mind about a particular thing. I think the quality of our fellowship with one another as believers depends on how deeply we are willing to engage and even challenge one another.


 
  But hon, we have selective memory in the Christian forum. We have members who have straight up bashed one of the lesbian Christian sisters in the Christian forum because of her sexual beliefs and wasn't one bit concerned about her heart or speaking the truth in love and accused her of knowing she was wrong and was trying to get over. There was no, "We all have our own interpretation blah, blah, blah but pray cuz Jesus ain't tell you thats taking place. The sister didn't see where it was written that gays can't get married (and it isn't) and believes that in a gay marriage it would be ok to have oral or anal sex. Now the same arguments for it in straights can be made for it in gay marriages if marriage beds are undefiled but......


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 24, 2009)

Crown said:


> We can have sex with no desire to become pregnant and have a baby, a family, but:
> 
> **What's the real purpose of sex?* A big family on earth for GOD.
> So God created man in his _own_ image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And GOD blessed them, and GOD said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion... (Genesis 1:27-28)
> ...


 
What I'm thinking is that if the seed is spilled outside of the vaginal canal, then it doesn't lend itself to procreation.  If it's used as a method of arousal, then the seed is spilled vaginally, that's procreation.  By itself, oral sex becomes masturbatory only.


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## aribell (Mar 24, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> But hon, we have selective memory in the Christian forum. We have members who have straight up bashed one of the lesbian Christian sisters in the Christian forum because of her sexual beliefs and wasn't one bit concerned about her heart or speaking the truth in love and accused her of knowing she was wrong and was trying to get over. There was no, "We all have our own interpretation blah, blah, blah but pray cuz Jesus ain't tell you thats taking place. *The sister didn't see where it was written that gays can't get married (and it isn't) and believes that in a gay marriage it would be ok to have oral or anal sex. Now the same arguments for it in straights can be made for it in gay marriages if marriage beds are undefiled but....*..


 
True...A Christian writer and theologian whom I respect, when dealing with questions about homosexuality, aside from the clear biblical arguments, also talks a lot about the fact that anal sex in particular cannot achieve the procreative purpose sex was clearly designed to achieve; and moreover that it can be physically harmful for the men involved.  It would seem that if Christians embrace that act as a valid expression of sexuality, then we also lose the ability to tell homosexuals (men) that their expression of sexuality does not achieve the clear end that God designed in giving "matching" parts to men and women.  If it's all kosher, then I think the homosexual community would have every reason to come back and ask what difference it makes whether it's a man-man, woman-woman union, or a man-woman union.

Don't know about oral sex.  Similar arguments could be made, but then I think that, say, kissing doesn't achieve any procreative purpose or any purpose that has to do with eating, speaking, or breathing, which is what the mouth was designed for.  So I'm not sure how far that argument can go.


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## msa (Mar 24, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> ...   They are happy; as long as they have a  threesome with Jesus and no one else, it's ordained.    It's between them and the Lord...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Amen.

Shimmie, you are hilarious. And so common sense. I love it.



Ms.Honey said:


> Amen.
> 
> What is the abomination that occurs between two people of the same sex? Not love and caring we should all do that.
> 
> Imagine nude healthy couples, one straight couple, two nude men and two nude women just standing there. Look at the straight couple what do you see? When you look at the gay couples what do you see? The straight couple is *equipped* to have sexual intercourse but the gay couples? *No ability to have intercourse*!! So they have to find *alternatives* to intercourse. *THAT* is the abomination. The *alternative sex*. People can not be abominations *EVER that's why we can be redeemed.* It is the *ACTS *that are the abomination. When straight couples choose the alternative to sexual intercourse we commit the abomination also.



I am nowhere near clear about where I stand on this, but this was a very helpful post for me. Thanks!


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> But hon, we have selective memory in the Christian forum. We have members who have straight up bashed one of the lesbian Christian sisters in the Christian forum because of her sexual beliefs and wasn't one bit concerned about her heart or speaking the truth in love and accused her of knowing she was wrong and was trying to get over. There was no, "We all have our own interpretation blah, blah, blah but pray cuz Jesus ain't tell you thats taking place. The sister didn't see where it was written that gays can't get married (and it isn't) and believes that in a gay marriage it would be ok to have oral or anal sex. Now the same arguments for it in straights can be made for it in gay marriages if marriage beds are undefiled but......


 
Just in case I'm the 'sister' in topic here.......    (I probably am).  

What happen was the 'gay person' in question was mis-quoting scripture to Biblically justifly homosexuality; disparaging selected relationships in the Bible to 'fit her cause'.    

AND I told her not to do it.!  It was wrong.   God did not deserve it.  I also said it in much love.

I hate to tell you this, but a husband and wife who are having 'oral' sex are still going to have oral sex if they enjoy it.  Futher, they are not going to hell for it.    

And you know what?   I truly say all of this in love.   

Just because we don't agree with it, isn't going to stop it.  There's nothing based upon our sacred scriptures to stop it, HOWEVER there is evidence of it in the Song of Solomon.    

Let the married folks do what they do.   It's none of our business anyway.   You can't preach sex out of anyone.  It's embossed, imprinted, tatooed, engraved; it's permanent.    Let the married folks be.  Too many noses in one bed ain't healthy.


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> True...A Christian writer and theologian whom I respect, when dealing with questions about homosexuality, aside from the clear biblical arguments, also talks a lot about the fact that anal sex in particular cannot achieve the procreative purpose sex was clearly designed to achieve; and moreover that it can be physically harmful for the men involved. It would seem that if Christians embrace that act as a valid expression of sexuality, then we also lose the ability to tell homosexuals (men) that their expression of sexuality does not achieve the clear end that God designed in giving "matching" parts to men and women. If it's all kosher, then I think the homosexual community would have every reason to come back and ask what difference it makes whether it's a man-man, woman-woman union, or a man-woman union.
> 
> Don't know about oral sex. Similar arguments could be made, but then I think that, say,
> 
> *kissing doesn't achieve any procreative purpose or any purpose that has to do with eating, speaking, or breathing, which is what the mouth was designed for. So I'm not sure how far that argument can go.*


 

You know what?  This has made more sense than any other 'arguement' about oral sex, that I've ever heard.


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

msa said:


> Amen.
> 
> Shimmie, you are hilarious. And so common sense. I love it.


 
Thanks msa.   

Now you know I'm 'cuttin' up in this thread.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Just in case I'm the 'sister' in topic here.......  (I probably am).
> 
> What happen was the 'gay person' in question was mis-quoting scripture to Biblically justifly homosexuality; disparaging selected relationships in the Bible to 'fit her cause'.
> 
> ...


 
You weren't the only one so I didn't say your name

She was going by her personal beliefs and what she believed the scripture meant. She wasn't misquoting she misinterpreted but direct prayer is the way to the truth.

This is what she truly believes in her heart and mind. If we say she's wrong and turn around and say we're right then that's not right. We say one's interpretation is wrong with no problem but when it comes to what WE want to do we are free to interpret as we please. We can't preach homosexual sex or premarital sex out of anyone either but we sho nuff try up in here.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> True...A Christian writer and theologian whom I respect, when dealing with questions about homosexuality, aside from the clear biblical arguments, also talks a lot about the fact that anal sex in particular cannot achieve the procreative purpose sex was clearly designed to achieve; and moreover that it can be physically harmful for the men involved. It would seem that if Christians embrace that act as a valid expression of sexuality, then we also lose the ability to tell homosexuals (men) that their expression of sexuality does not achieve the clear end that God designed in giving "matching" parts to men and women. If it's all kosher, then I think the homosexual community would have every reason to come back and ask what difference it makes whether it's a man-man, woman-woman union, or a man-woman union.
> 
> *Don't know about oral sex. Similar arguments could be made, but then I think that, say, kissing doesn't achieve any procreative purpose or any purpose that has to do with eating, speaking, or breathing, which is what the mouth was designed for. So I'm not sure how far that argument can go.*




Well, actually kissing is all through the bible as a show of affection and to great one another. I think someone even tallks about a holy kiss. Jesus accepted Judas' kiss so the mouth is not only for eating, speaking or breathing but kissing also biblically speaking.


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## PaperClip (Mar 24, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Don't know about oral sex. Similar arguments could be made, but then I think that, say, kissing doesn't achieve any procreative purpose or any purpose that has to do with eating, speaking, or breathing, which is what the mouth was designed for. So I'm not sure how far that argument can go.


 
The Bible does say:

*Romans 16:16: *Salute one another with an *holy* *kiss*. The churches of Christ salute you.

*1 Corinthians 16:20: *All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an *holy* *kiss*.

*2 Corinthians 13:12: *Greet one another with an *holy* *kiss*.

*1 Thessalonians 5:26: *Greet all the brethren with an *holy* *kiss*.



As far as I'm concerned, Hebrews 13:4 covers this topic: "Let marriage be held in honor (esteemed worthy, precious, of great price, and especially dear) in all things. And thus let the marriage bed be undefiled (kept undishonored); for God will judge and punish the unchaste [all guilty of sexual vice] and adulterous." (Amplified)

Shimmie said it about staying out of married folks' marriage beds.... They have to answer to the Lord about their sexual activities.... And the Song of Solomon is quite the love/sex story....


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## Mortons (Mar 24, 2009)

Well I see I was brought up in here, so it would only be right for me to make an appearance. 

I will be lurking and watching someone digging a grave and burying their previous points from my thread.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 24, 2009)

About praying for an answer: 

If that is what one is supposed to do, then it's a communication between that person and G-d.  Oral and anal sex that are not homosexually expressed aren't mentioned in scripture concerning marriage.  As far as defilement, there is no consensus regarding the marital bed.  Who's to say that for x person, G-d didn't tell yes whereas to person z, He did?  If it's truly up to each person to discern, another cannot do that for you.  It's not as clearcut as the 10 Commandments.


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

If we don't watch it, folks lurkin are gonna think Christians never 'did it' in order to know what to do wit' it'...

I'm just sayin'....     

The above was written invisable to those who oppose ....  Christians having oral sex.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> If we don't watch it, folks lurkin are gonna think Christians never 'did it' in order to know what to do wit' it'...
> 
> I'm just sayin'....
> 
> The above was written invisable to those who oppose .... Christians having oral sex.


 
Girl, don't nobody but Christians think Christians were born saved  We're the ones that act like folks don't know what they're talking about because they don't participate in certain sexual acts


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## FluffyRed (Mar 24, 2009)

How does anyone interpret Song of Solomon?

...A bundle of myrrh is my well-beloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts. 
...Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the *smell of thy garments* is like the smell of Lebanon. 
...Awake, O north wind; and come, thou south; *blow upon my garden*, that the *spices thereof may flow out*. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits. 
...T*hy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb*: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon. 
...My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him. 
...My beloved is *gone down into his garden, to the beds of spices, to feed in the gardens*, and to gather lilies. 
I am my beloved's, and my beloved is mine: _he feedeth among the lilies_. 
I went down into the _*garden of nuts*_ to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished and the pomegranates budded.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

1Ki 11:3 

And he had *seven hundred wives*, princesses, and *three hundred concubines*: and his wives turned away his heart. 

Solomon had a sex problem.


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## discobiscuits (Mar 24, 2009)

Solomon had a heart problem not a lower appendage problem. God told him not to marry women from forbidden tribes because *they would turn his heart from Him *to their gods and they did. God did not restrict how many he could marry.  

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=281555​


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## Crown (Mar 24, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> If we don't watch it, folks lurkin are gonna think Christians never 'did it' in order to know what to do wit' it'...
> 
> I'm just sayin'....
> 
> The above was written invisable to those who oppose ....  Christians having oral sex.



We are talking about the sexual act, (coït in french) not the preliminaries, RIGHT?


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

FluffyRed said:


> How does anyone interpret Song of Solomon?
> 
> ...A bundle of myrrh is my well-beloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.
> ...Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the *smell of thy garments* is like the smell of Lebanon.
> ...


 
I hope this helps...

http://gospelthemes.com/songfaq.htm


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

*Christian Article:*  I've heard these two women sharing about the Song of Solomon, on the radio and what they had to share made sense.    Sex is truly a matter between the husband and wife.  

This article is posted in two separate posts.

http://www.growthtrac.com/artman/publish/printer-673.php

*What is Not Okay in Bed?*
Jan 28, 2006 

_By Linda Dillow and Lorraine Pintus
_

"If both partners agree, is anything taboo?" "What about the use of vibrators?" "Is oral sex okay?" [These are just a few questions that Christian women asked about the sexual relationship in marriage from a survey that the authors conducted.] But at the heart of each of these questions were two concerns: What does God prohibit in the sexual relationship between a husband and wife, and what does God permit?

We read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and compiled a list of every scriptural reference to sex. As we reviewed our list it became apparent that God gives tremendous sexual freedom within the marriage relationship. But God also sets forth some prohibitions that we must honor.

*These are the ten things God forbids:* *1. Fornication: *Fornication is immoral sex. It comes from the Greek word porneia which means "unclean." This broad term includes sexual intercourse outside of marriage (1 Corinthians 7:2, 1 Thessalonians 4:3), sleeping with your stepmother (1 Corinthians 5:1), sex with a prostitute (1 Corinthians 6:13, 15-16), and adultery (Matthew 5:32).

*2. Adultery:* Adultery, or sex with someone who is not your spouse, is a sin and was punishable in the Old Testament by death (Leviticus 21:10). In the New Testament, Jesus expanded adultery to mean not just physical acts, but emotional acts in the mind and heart (Matthew 5:28).

*3. Homosexuality: *The Bible is very clear that for a man to have sex with a man or woman to have sex with a woman is detestable to God (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:27; 1 Corinthians 6:9).

*4. Impurity: *These are several Greek words which are translated as "impurity." To become "impure" (in Greek, molvno) can mean to lose one's virginity (Revelation 14:4), or to become defiled, due to living out a secular and essentially pagan lifestyle (1 Corinthians 6:9, 2 Corinthians 7:1). The Greek word rupos often refers to moral uncleanness in general (Revelation 22:11).

*5. Orgies: *For a married couple to become involved in sex orgies with different couples is an obvious violation of (1), (2), and (4) and needs no discussion.

*6. Prostitution:* Prostitution, which is paying for sex, is morally wrong and condemned throughout Scripture (Leviticus 19:29, Deuteronomy 23:17, Proverbs 7:4-27).

*7. Lustful passions: *First, let us tell you what this does not mean. Lustful passion does not refer to the powerful, God-given sexual desire a husband and wife have for one another. Instead, it refers to an unrestrained, indiscriminate sexual desire for men or women other than the person's marriage partner (Mark 7:21-22, Ephesians 4:19).

*8. Sodomy: *In the Old Testament, sodomy refers to men lying with men. The English word means "Unnatural sexual intercourse, especially of one man with another or of a human being with an animal." Unfortunately, some Christian teachers have erroneously equated sodomy with oral sex. In the Bible, sodomites refer to male homosexuals or temple prostitutes (both male and female). In contemporary usage, the term sodomy is sometimes used to describe anal intercourse between a man and woman. This is not the meaning of the biblical word.

*9. Obscenity and coarse jokes:* In Ephesians 4:29, Paul says, "Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth." The Greek word for unwholesome is very descriptive and literally mans "rotten" or "decaying." In Ephesians 5:4, the Bible warns us to avoid "silly talk" or, as it is called in some versions, "coarse jesting." We have all been around people who can see a sexual connotation in some innocent phrase and then begin to snicker or laugh. This is wrong. However, this does not rule out appropriate sexual humor in the privacy of marriage, but rather inappropriate sexual comments in a public setting.

*10. Incest: *Incest, or sex with family members or relatives, is specifically forbidden in Scripture (Leviticus 18:7-18; 20:11-21).​God leaves much in our sexual relationship with our husbands up to our discretion. In all likelihood, the questions tugging at the back of your mind were not even touched upon. When she read this list, Shelby commented: "It's helpful to know what God says is wrong, but I still sometimes wonder if what my husband and I are doing is right. We have a great time together in bed, but every now and then, this nagging doubt comes — does God approve?"

To help you and all the Shelby's, we will get more specific and address the questions we are constantly asked.

----------------------------------

Continued next post


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

http://www.growthtrac.com/artman/publish/what-is-not-okay-in-bed_2.php

*Is Oral Sex Permissible?* Oral sex is or oral stimulation of your partner's genitals with your mouth, lips, and tongue. The man may stimulate the woman's clitoris and the opening of the vagina with his tongue or the woman many pleasure the man's penis with her mouth. This sexual stimulation may or may not lead to orgasm for the husband and wife.

What does Scripture say about this sexual activity? Most theologians say the Scriptures are silent about oral-genital sex. Some believe two verses in the Song of Solomon may contain veiled references to oral sex. The first is Song of Solomon 2:3:

_Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest, so is my beloved among the young men.

In his shade I took great delight and sat down, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.
------------_
Throughout the Song of Solomon, the word fruit refers to the male genitals. In extra biblical literature, fruit is sometimes equated with the male genitals or with semen, so it is possible that here we have a faint and delicate reference to an oral genital caress.

The second possible veiled reference is found in 4:16 (KJV):

_Awake, O north wind; and come, thou south; blow upon my garden, that the spices thereof may flow out. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits._ 

These erotic words spoken by Solomon's bride are at the culmination of a very sensuous love scene. Shulamith asks her husband to blow on her garden (a poetic reference used throughout the Song for the vagina) and cause its spices to flow out. Of course one cannot be certain, but it is possible Shulamith is inviting her husband to excite her by caressing her with his mouth. She then invites him to enter her and feast on the pleasures waiting in her "garden."

Dr. Douglas Rosenau believes Scripture is silent on the topic of oral sex. "This does not make it right or wrong," he says. A key emphasis in the New Testament is Christian liberty. Nothing is unclean in itself, says Paul (Romans 14:14), and this presumably includes sexual variety. Lewis Smedes, professor of theology at Fuller Seminary, amplifies Paul's statement abut nothing being unclean.

Christian liberty sets us free from culturally invented "moral" taboos; and since there is no rule from heaven, it is likely that the only restraint is the feeling of the other person. For example, if one partner has guilt feelings about oral sex play, the Christian response of the other will be to honor the partner until they adjust their feelings. On the other hand, if the partner has only aesthetic reservations, and if these are rooted in some fixed idea that sex is little more than a necessary evil anyway, they have an obligation to be taught, tenderly and lovingly, of the joys of sex in the freedom of Christ.

In Intended for Pleasure, Dr. and Mrs. Ed Wheat says that oral sex is a matter that concerns only the husband and wife involved. If both find it enjoyable and pleasant, then it may properly fit into the couple's lovemaking practices. One goal of lovemaking is to fill a treasure trove of memories with delightful love experiences that will quicken your responses during your future times together.

One woman might feel horrified by the above playful interchange between a husband and wife. To her, oral sex is repulsive. Another may think the minister and his wife have a gloriously free, creative, and fun sexual relationship. She sees that oral sex adds a beautiful dimension to this couple's lovemaking.

Before we go any further, let us clarify our intent. Are we suggesting you incorporate oral sex into your love play? No. We are not making recommendations. Instead, our purpose is to set out for you what Scripture prohibits and to encourage you to seek God's wisdom concerning His personal recommendations for your marriage.

Each couple is different. Each husband and wife is unique. Because Scripture is either silent — or veiled — concerning this practice, the only way to discover what God allows for you is for you to ask Him. If you've never talked to God about your sexual relationship, now is a good time to start. You will not shock God. Remember, sex was His idea. God is a God of wisdom (Daniel 2:20). He promises that when we lack wisdom, if we ask Him, He will give it to us (James 1:5)


As you seek God's wisdom, you might find it helpful to ask these three questions about any sexual practice you and your husband are considering:
Is it prohibited in Scripture? If not, we may assume it is permitted. "Everything is permissible for me," (1 Corinthians 6:12, NIV).
Is it beneficial? Does the practice in any way harm the husband or wife or hinder the sexual relationship? If so, it should be rejected. "Everything is permissible for me — but not everything is beneficial." (1 Corinthians 6:12, NIV).
Does it involve anyone else? Sexual activity is sanctioned by God for husband and wife only. If a sexual practice involves someone else or becomes public, it is wrong based on Hebrews 13:4, which warns us to keep the marriage bed undefiled.
Let's see how these questions can help when it comes to making decisions about certain sexual practices that are not specifically spelled out in Scripture.

*Are Vibrators Permissible?* Some couples enjoy incorporating the use of sexual aids such as vibrators into their lovemaking. To find out if the use of vibrator is right or wrong, let's apply the three questions. Is the use of a vibrator prohibited by Scripture? Is a vibrator beneficial in lovemaking? Does the use of a vibrator involve anyone else?

As we look at the list of ten prohibitions, we see that there is no scriptural reference that would prohibit the use of a vibrator. So if a vibrator enhances a couple's lovemaking and is used exclusively for the couple's private enjoyment, then it is permitted. Does this mean we are suggesting you run out and buy a vibrator? No. Again, we are not recommending any sexual practice. We are only trying to help you discern what is best in your marriage as you seek the wisdom of God.

*What about X-Rated Videos?* Obviously videos did not exist during biblical times, so we will not find "Thou shalt not watch X-rated videos" in Scriptures. (The same is true for vibrators.) But as we read through the list of the ten prohibitions, a red flag is raised. In number two on the list, adultery is defined as "looking on a woman to lust" whether the woman (or man) is on a video, in a picture, or in the living flesh. Secondly, number four on the list describes impurity as "moral uncleanness." X-rated would qualify as "morally unclean," thereby making them something God would disdain.

Now let's apply the questions: 

Are X-rated videos prohibited by Scripture? Yes, based on (2) and (4).
Are X-rated vides beneficial? Anything that promotes "moral uncleanness" is not beneficial.
Do X-rated videos involve someone else? Yes. You bring the man or woman on the video into your lovemaking.
Based on these answers, we could conclude that God wants us to stay away from X-rated videos.

We have considered three "gray areas," oral sex, vibrators, and X-rated videos. There are many others. We encourage you and your husband to prayerfully seek God's wisdom, study the list of ten prohibitions, and use the three questions to help you discern what to do in your specific situation.

As Christians we are simultaneously free and responsible. We are responsible to seek the best of the one we love, to think more highly of him and his desires than our own (Philippians 2:3-4). But we are also free to explore new territories of sexual delight.

According to Dr. Lewis Smedes, "The Christian word on trying out a sexual practice that is not prohibited in Scripture is 'Try it. If you like it, it is morally good for you. And it may well be that in providing new delight to each other; you will be adventuring into deeper experiences of love.'"

God has given you great freedom in your sexual relationship with your husband. Remember His words to Solomon and Shulamith: 

_"Eat, friends; drink and imbibe deeply, O lovers" (Song of Solomon 5:1). _ 

------------------

I think this article covers something is everyone's post in this thread.  

Main Focus:

Be Prayerful

The Bible is Silent/We are Silent

What happens in "Vegas" between the Husband and Wife, stays in 'Vegas'...

Blessings Everyone...


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 24, 2009)

First, Solomon, God bless him was KNOWN to be a sexual pervert. He had 1,000 women at least. He got it from his daddy

Secondly, these references are seen ONLY in the song of Solomon who was again...... sexual pervert There are no other scriptural witness to these acts The TRUTH must be established by two or more witnesses.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you: By the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=347283


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 24, 2009)

my two cents. The bible states with no uncertainty that a man is not to lay with a man as he lays with a woman.

As for how some members "came" at another board member. I look at it as coming at the devil. Our Father says we are to give him NO leeway. And the devil comes in all forms even as an angel of light.


So the question as for whether homosexual relations are ordained is not a question at all.  As for anal. If it is pleasurable for both I think it's alright but as far as I know it isn't pleasurable for the woman. But I guess if she is willing to take the pain for her husband than kudos to her. But I wish some of these men would think about what they are asking from their wives. Where in the world did they get the idea that they "needed" sex in such positions?  Is regular sex not good enough anymore?  Really sometimes men these days scare me.


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## Shimmie (Mar 24, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> First, Solomon, God bless him was KNOWN to be a sexual pervert. He had 1,000 women at least. He got it from his daddy
> 
> Secondly, these references are seen ONLY in the song of Solomon who was again...... sexual pervert There are no other scriptural witness to these acts The TRUTH must be established by two or more witnesses.
> 
> ...


 
And by the mouth of this witness, give it up.  

Precious Lady, you are indeed most entitled to your feelings and opinions on this matter, and I respect them and I respect you more.   

But, you can't brow beat or pound into the dust, what 'you' feel is right or wrong between a man and his wife, or what gives them pleasure in the privacy of their own bedroom.

There are more witnesses against you in this, including scripture.  And according to the thread you've reference, this makes you a _false_ witness in this matter.  

For how is this hurting you personally?   It shouldn't.  And if it does, it's only because you've chosen it to do so.  You've made this an unnecessary battle.  It's bearing a false witness against your married sisters and brothers in Christ.  

You've yet to make a valid scriptual premise for the arguements which you've presented.   This is not 'your' battle.  It's actually no ones battle.  

It is still and always will be a private matter between a husband and wife... the privacy of their bedroom, whom no one has any right to assume, presume, or attack how they enjoy making love with one another.

Granted, King Solomon had his weaknesses, he even 'unveils' them in Ecclesiastes; however I will refer to what Jesus would say to and about those in marriage.  _ "Where are your accusers?"_

:Rose: Beautiful Sister, none of us should be named among them, who accuse the privacy of a happily married man and woman, for when Jesus further says, "Go and sin no more, He is speaking to those of us, who invade their marital privacy. _ _

I claim no perfection of knowledge, for I am not God who knows their hearts.

Love and blessings, Ms. Honey   _ _


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## AnnDriena_ (Mar 24, 2009)

False witness?  I just see a difference of opinion and someone who sees the scripture as that which supports her opinion.  I think we are throwing the Christianese (church language) around too much.

false witness? accusers? No. Different opinion holder. Yes

and for the record I don't agree with her opinion but I don't think she is in the false witness territory though. My two cents. keep the change.


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## discobiscuits (Mar 25, 2009)

AnnDriena. I like your two cents. I feel where you are coming from. I've felt like that too in some of these threads. 

At least one of the "2-3 witness" scriptures that was quoted and is still being quoted and used out of context, yet still keeps getting used as a tool to drive home or support points made. I think (Shimmie correct me if I err) that that is where the false witness comment stems from:  the incorrect or at least the over use or misuse of those scriptures for the above intent.

Even if everyone in this thread agrees that Solomon was a horn-dog by heredity and his lack of self control got him in trouble with Almighty God/Jehovah/Yahweh/Elohim, it was not because he had more than one wife (David had four) it was because he disobeyed the instructions given to the kings some of which were not to marry women from certain tribes because they would turn the king's heart away from God. Solomon disobeyed that by marrying "strange women". 

I have yet to find any scripture that says the king could only have one wife. The scripture says do not multiply horses or wives. And by those same 2-3 witnesses, we can see David (horn-dog Sr.) was called a man after God's heart whereas HD jr was destroyed and all remnants of his wiped off the earth. David had four wives (not multiples/many - four is a few). Solomon had multiples from the forbidden tribes. But I am now off topic. I put the link in one of my earlier posts about multiple wives and the kings. 

Those same 2-3 or more witnesses also bear witness to Abraham sleeping with his maiden (adultery) per his wife's idea (man, Sara and Eve got their huzbuns in some trouble LOL) yet he was still blessed and God still kept His word to Isaac and also blessed Ishmael even though His covenant was through and with Isaac. 


> Gen 17:20  	And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.



But again, I am off topic and apologize. I don't know how much of which threads you've read so I apologize for my recap if you already knew all that I just said. 

I like what Shimmie said and she said it like a lady. I would not have been as gracious so I'm so glad she said what she said to whom she said it. Some one needed to and I'm glad it was not me.

There are some very strong beliefs and opinions in this thread about the topic of what is permissible with God in the marriage bed. I know that if I were to choose to get married, my huzbun and I would seek God in this matter but I would in no way, shape or form ask my church or pastor nor care what my church had to say on the matter (Note: asking the pastor for scriptures is not the same as taking the pastor's personal opinion in one's bedroom).  

The bible is silent on the specifics of what a husband and wife can do sexually. It simply states that the marriage bed is undefiled. The bible is against using the body against what its natural use is for (Romans 1:26-27).  If a couple sought God about what "natural use" is and they decided that certain types of sex were not God's will, then that is for them. (Personally, I agree with my pastor's comments as far as "natural use" goes. But I would not presume to tell a married couple this or that is not for you - it is in the bible. I would only show them what I see and explain how I see it (if they asked me) and let them take it to God and decide for themselves).

I am in agreement with most people in this tread:  it is between that husband and that wife and their God what goes on in, under, next to, around their bed (or any other part of their house) as it relates to sex.


Again, Ann I hope I did not recap what you already knew and I hope you and everyone else understands what I'm trying to convey. I'm not always the most eloquent or clearly spoken one in this forum.  Sometimes I present my comments in a way that in the past has been misinterpreted or misunderstood or the tone is not well received. I hope I did better this time in expressing my points.


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## hopeful (Mar 25, 2009)

AnnDriena_ said:


> my two cents. The bible states with no uncertainty that a man is not to lay with a man as he lays with a woman.
> 
> As for how some members "came" at another board member. I look at it as coming at the devil. Our Father says we are to give him NO leeway. And the devil comes in all forms even as an angel of light.
> 
> ...


 
That is why women must choose their husbands wisely.  Some men are scary.  But if a man love's his wife as Christ loved the Church then surely he won't want to cause her harm or embarrass her.  I would not have a man who would expect ridiculous and or demeaning things of me.


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## pebbles (Mar 25, 2009)

Thank-you, ladies.


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