# Marriage and Men / Marriage and Women



## BeautifulFlower (May 20, 2009)

http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/trial/marriage-and-men

http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/trial/marriage-and-women

Listen to Marriage and Men first...


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## momi (May 20, 2009)

I have heard these!  Mark Driscoll knows how to bring it doesn't he???


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## inthepink (May 20, 2009)

I forgot to tell you that I had been listening to him.  I had not heard these! I will have to get them on my ipod! Thank you!


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## BeautifulFlower (May 20, 2009)

momi said:


> I have heard these! Mark Driscoll knows how to bring it doesn't he???


 
I felt convicted and he was talking to the men. I need to get over certains and really look at what a good husband is all about. 

I used to date men that were not "safe". After his sermon, I've re-evaluated what I look for in a good husband.


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## BeautifulFlower (May 20, 2009)

hairlove said:


> I forgot to tell you that I had been listening to him. I had not heard these! I will have to get them on my ipod! Thank you!


 
Good, good. Mark's ministry has changed me alot. I thank God for his ministry.
I should start downloading the podcast too.

Oh yeah, and I am going to get those books he's talking about: 

Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood: A Response to Evangelical Feminism 

God, Marriage, and Family: Rebuilding the Biblical Foundation  - recommends single to read this so you dont marry a loser


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## PinkPebbles (May 20, 2009)

I'm listening right now and he is speaking the truth! Right on time...thanks for sharing!


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## momi (May 25, 2009)

bumpin....


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## Evolving78 (May 26, 2009)

thank you so much OP for posting this.  this was truly a blessing.  the sermon for the men was awesome.  it is the second best, hard hitting sermon i have heard.  i put it up there with "No More Sheets"!  i love sermons like that.  i don't do dainty! lol!


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## inthepink (May 26, 2009)

Thanks for bumping b/c I had not yet listened.  Listening now!


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## PinkPebbles (May 26, 2009)

shortdub78 said:


> thank you so much OP for posting this. this was truly a blessing. *the sermon for the men was awesome.* it is the second best, *hard hitting sermon i have heard. *i put it up there with "No More Sheets"! i love sermons like that. i don't do dainty! lol!


 
I agree! Every time I see this thread I smile :blush3:.

There are so many sermons on what women need to do and how to conduct ourselves as a godly woman. Yet, you rarely hear sermons about how men need to take responsibility and be held accountable for their actions. I applaud this pastor for speaking the truth and sounding the alarm for men of God to wake up and act like the godly man God has called him to become.


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## inthepink (May 26, 2009)

PinkPebbles said:


> I agree! Every time I see this thread I smile :blush3:.
> 
> There are so many sermons on what women need to do and how to conduct ourselves as a godly woman. Yet, you rarely hear sermons about how men need to take responsibility and be held accountable for their actions. I applaud this pastor for speaking the truth and sounding the alarm for men of God to wake up and act like the godly man God has called him to become.



Problem is...how many single Christian men are in church to hear these types of sermons?   They surely need to hear it.  I think I did hear that this particular church has many singles including men though!


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## PinkPebbles (May 26, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Problem is...*how many single Christian men are in church to hear these types of sermons?*  They surely need to hear it. I think I did hear that this particular church has many singles including men though!


 
True! Although, there are not many I'm glad a pastor is addressing the issues. Hopefully, others will follow suit and the "word" will travel. I already forwarded the link to my male single cousins.


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## Evolving78 (May 26, 2009)

i forwarded this to a couple of men in my family as well and i am going to send it to more if i can.  none of these men are in church either.


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## inthepink (May 26, 2009)

That's a really smart idea - to send this on.

I am going to send these to my sisters.


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## TrustMeLove (May 26, 2009)

Whoaaa... His prayer came out all bars..no pulled punches. Listening now. I think I may like this....I am also going to order those Amazon books if this Sermon is sound.


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## TrustMeLove (May 26, 2009)

He just spoke about his tone. ANd how his tone is specifically for the men. I was thinking wow he is pretty rough...which could be a ministering style...that some of us need to hear certain messages in..But, I was like wow he is about to get on the women something fierce than. 

However, since he is speaking about this tone being specifically for the men..that made me go Ah Ha! I get it. 

I think I like this guy.


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## TrustMeLove (May 26, 2009)

Whoaa! I'm at the end of the marriage and men and he just WENT OFF! WENT OFF!

He said who the H3LL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? 

My eyes got super big like OMG. I don't ever say OMG..it's always OMGoodness...but man he was not playing. It was serious what he was talking about, but I've never seen that type of anger come from the pulpit.  

We need more Pastors to get down like this..stop the using the gloves and get real. 

I am going to watch Marriage and Women and take mine too...I just pray the Lord gives me a open and humble spirit to receive what thus saith the Lord to me as a single woman and future wife to the man of his choice someday.


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## BeautifulFlower (May 26, 2009)

He's not as rough on the women but just as real. 

I LOVE MARK DRISCOLL. You will see how he loves his wife and children. It gives me encouragement that I'll have something like that one day.


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## BeautifulFlower (May 26, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> He just spoke about his tone. ANd how his tone is specifically for the men. I was thinking wow he is pretty rough...which could be a ministering style...that some of us need to hear certain messages in..But, I was like wow he is about to get on the women something fierce than.
> 
> However, since he is speaking about this tone being specifically for the men..that made me go Ah Ha! I get it.
> 
> *I think I like this guy*.


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## TrustMeLove (May 27, 2009)

I keep seeing John and Kate plus 8 on all the tabloids. And all this talk about their marriage. Well, I just saw the season premier and GOODNESS! 

They were hinting towards divorce. You can tell John feels emasculated. He and she pretty much said this.. He loves taking care of his children and loves his children, but he says that he has worked all his life to provide and now he does none of that. His wife is now the breadwinner and he is the care taker.

I kept thinking back to Mark's sermon like..wow..It seems like stuff is going down hill because it isn't in God's plan on the roles of a man and a woman in a relationship. And it isn't falling into the exception to the rule category. 

Kate looks happy taking over and being the breadwinner. Pastor Mark spoke about us women being cursed with wanting to rule over our husbands and pretty much do their curse. And men being weak and sitting by allowing us to take over. I just saw this so much in what was happening with them...

John looks horrible....smh

I pray they get some counseling and get things worked out. The love is still their for each other and their family unit. They just have some things seriously backwards right now.

NOW! I want to say I don't know what is REALLY going on in their lives. But, this is what I perceived...just as if this was a soap opera you can make you own assumptions. The one thing I do knowis that they NEED prayer.


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## aribell (May 27, 2009)

Does it seem to anyone that he focused a lot on the extremes with the men?  It was a needed message, I just left wondering "Are those types the only ones we as women have to look out for?"


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## TrustMeLove (May 28, 2009)

I sent this to a couple people and alot of them couldn't listen to it because of his tone. I told them that the tone was going to be harsh, but just listen to the msg. The tone was for the men and not the women.

This msg can really bless folks. I hope they give it another shot. I implored them to give it a second listen...but to listen to the women's first (they didn't even listen to the women's after they heard the mens) and than go to the men's.


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## momi (May 28, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> I sent this to a couple people and alot of them couldn't listen to it because of his tone. I told them that the tone was going to be harsh, but just listen to the msg. The tone was for the men and not the women.
> 
> This msg can really bless folks. I hope they give it another shot. I implored them to give it a second listen...but to listen to the women's first (they didn't even listen to the women's after they heard the mens) and than go to the men's.


 

Are you kidding me? Do they read the bible?

Seriously not trying to be facetious...


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## momi (May 29, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> I sent this to a couple people and alot of them couldn't listen to it because of his tone. I told them that the tone was going to be harsh, but just listen to the msg. The tone was for the men and not the women.
> 
> This msg can really bless folks. I hope they give it another shot. I implored them to give it a second listen...but to listen to the women's first (they didn't even listen to the women's after they heard the mens) and than go to the men's.


 

If they cant take Mark then Voddie Bauchman will make them cry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYvJ7UE8FEc&feature=related


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## neenzmj (May 29, 2009)

My husband and I listened to it together.  We absolutely loved it!   It inspired my husband to begin speaking to the men at our church concerning their role as men and husbands as well as looking at his self to make sure he was being all that he should be as the leader in our home.



momi said:


> If they cant take Mark then Voddie Bauchman will make them cry.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYvJ7UE8FEc&feature=related


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## Bunny77 (May 29, 2009)

Okay, I just listened to Marriage and Men. 

Wow. GREAT message!

Men need to hear from men. And men do respond to challenges from other men, so Mark's tone was needed.

Off to hear the Women one!


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## PinkPebbles (May 29, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Okay, I just listened to Marriage and Men.
> 
> Wow. GREAT message!
> 
> ...


 
ITA!!!


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## TrustMeLove (May 29, 2009)

momi said:


> Are you kidding me? Do they read the bible?
> 
> Seriously not trying to be facetious...



Nope. This person is actually one of my best Christian friends and they definitely read the bible.

I think the delivery is what caught them off guard. Folks have become use to receiving the world on a soft platter with cookies. So to see this man of God (and Pastor Mark and I don't agree on a few things scripturally, but I still recognize him as a man of God) coming with such a powerful and not so sweet delivery like they are use to is guaranteed to be off settting.

I just encouraged them to listen to the women's first. I think that is what was scary..because if you have never heard anything from him before you would think all of his msgs were harsh and without tact. But, once you hear another one of his msgs you see that the marriage and mens msg had ALOT of tact and so do his other ones. Tact was the man reason he delievered that msg in such a fashion.


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## TrustMeLove (May 29, 2009)

momi said:


> If they cant take Mark then Voddie Bauchman will make them cry.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYvJ7UE8FEc&feature=related



At first I was going to cut this video short. But, I decided to keep listening. He makes some excellent points. Amening throughout the video and I have moved on to part 3. 

I'm not in agreement with some of his meek and quiet spirit doctrine. Maybe I just don't get what he is trying to say, but for me it screamed BONDAGE!


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## TrustMeLove (May 29, 2009)

momi said:


> If they cant take Mark then Voddie Bauchman will make them cry.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYvJ7UE8FEc&feature=related



Whew he does have a different philosphy. I don't agree with him on ALOT of things. His message screams bondage to me...bondage with a cupcake. 

Negative.


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## TrustMeLove (May 29, 2009)

I've listend to almost all of this Pasto Baucham's message.

I can say that I learned a lot. Especially, about love between children and husband and wife. I was blessed in large part by this message.


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## momi (May 30, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> Whew he does have a different philosphy. I don't agree with him on ALOT of things. His message screams bondage to me...bondage with a cupcake.
> 
> Negative.


 

Thanks for your reply! What exactly did he say that you feel did not line up with scripture?


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## Aviah (Dec 7, 2009)

Big bump!
Is he saying that women are men's accessories in a way? I take a great deal of what he is saying on board, and agree. However, in some ways I seem to get that when he quotes Timothy, in saying that the woman was made for the man, not the man for the woman, and we must help him, rather than working together on a life mission.
I also understand there are roles to fulfil in marriage it seems rigorously structured.

JMHO, his wife speaks a lot about respecting a husband and its obvious why, but its almost to the point of him being a superior or something. Just a "vibe" I get.
Can someone clarify this?


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## goldielocs (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks for posting these sermons.  They are right on time...


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## Aviah (Dec 8, 2009)

momi said:


> If they cant take Mark then Voddie Bauchman will make them cry.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYvJ7UE8FEc&feature=related



Wow. I just listened to part two, I guess being loud isn't godly. I understand some of what he's saying, but I almost expect him to pop out with women should be seen and not heard.
I don't think its necessarily classy, but ungodly...

But the rest seems good...


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## SND411 (Dec 8, 2009)

Aviah said:


> Big bump!
> Is he saying that women are men's accessories in a way? I take a great deal of what he is saying on board, and agree. However, in some ways I seem to get that when he quotes Timothy, in saying that the woman was made for the man, not the man for the woman, and we must help him, rather than working together on a life mission.
> I also understand there are roles to fulfil in marriage it seems rigorously structured.
> 
> ...



I've gotten that vibe as well...*kanye shrug*


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## SND411 (Dec 8, 2009)

Aviah said:


> Wow. I just listened to part two, I guess being loud isn't godly. I understand some of what he's saying, but I almost expect him to pop out with women should be seen and not heard.
> I don't think its necessarily classy, but ungodly...
> 
> But the rest seems good...



What does he mean by "loud?"


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## Aviah (Dec 8, 2009)

AfriPrincess411 said:


> What does he mean by "loud?"


Oh that was the second sermon with Dr voddie I was listening to. He was just saying a woman should have a revernt spirit, not be loud, or draw attention to herself, or be boisterous... Stressed reverence a lot...erplexed


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## SND411 (Dec 8, 2009)

Aviah said:


> Oh that was the second sermon with Dr voddie I was listening to. He was just saying a woman should have a revernt spirit, not be loud, or draw attention to herself, or be boisterous... Stressed reverence a lot...erplexed



I think that depends on the situation. I am not going to be "quiet" when it comes to defending the abused/standing up for truth.


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## Poohbear (Dec 8, 2009)

I just listened to the Marriage and Men segment. I agree with the majority of what he has said but had a few questions...

What if a woman marries a man that makes less income than her? Is she suppose to quit her job or get a less paying job so the man can be the "breadwinner" per se?

And let's say a husband that has a decent job asks his wife for $100. Is the wife suppose to be like "No, you go work for that extra $100."?

And he mention maternal instincts alot. When married, is it a sin for a wife *not* to have children or something?


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## Poohbear (Dec 8, 2009)

Now, I just finished watching Marriage and Women. This segment seemed like it was still for men for some odd reason. I thought it was pretty good as far as explaining the true meaning of submitting to your husband but was kinda weak compared to the Marriage and Men. Plus, the questions at the end were more general questions rather than thought provoking questions for women and marriage.


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## Prudent1 (Dec 8, 2009)

Hi ladies! I hope this clears up a few things for you ,

*


Aviah said:



			Wow. I just listened to part two, I guess being loud isn't godly. I understand some of what he's saying, but I almost expect him to pop out with women should be seen and not heard.

Click to expand...

*


Aviah said:


> *I don't think its necessarily classy, but ungodly...*
> * But the rest seems good...*




There are a few passages in Proverbs I think that address this. Basically, a loud female is a disruption and is usually disrespectful to herself and others. So she is out of order. God is a God of order. I know no one who is repeatedly loud that has it together in life. A women in control knows iot doesn't take all of that.
*


AfriPrincess411 said:



			What does he mean by "loud?"
		
Click to expand...

*Alley, uncultured, a drama queen, having no class.



Aviah said:


> Oh that was the second sermon with Dr voddie I was listening to. He was just saying a woman should have a revernt spirit, not be loud, or draw attention to herself, or be boisterous... *Stressed reverence a lot...erplexed*



Reverence is one of those words like submissive that we have big problems with in our culture. Primarily b/c many have used those words to degrade certain groups, women, AA, those w/ smaller incomes, you name it. However, I will say none of the above is God's definition of the word.
We exist in a culture where there are not kings and royal families or the pageantry and strict order that exists/ existed in that type of culture. So, we struggle to understand the true definitions.  We have only our personal experiences and understanding to lean on yet we know God _is _love. He is loving and demonstrated that love by making the ultimate sacrificial gesture- to die for the object of one's love in an effort to provide them with a better life. To be reverent does not mean I am silent and have no voice. It does mean I am smart enough to know when to talk, what to say, and how to say it to get the desired results.

*


AfriPrincess411 said:



			I think that depends on the situation. I am not going to be "quiet" when it comes to defending the abused/standing up for truth.
		
Click to expand...

*What godly person would remain silent when someone is being mistreated? Do you really think that a God who commands (not asks) us to walk in love and is so very concerned with how we treat ppl would say "be silent" and allow abuse to take place? This is the same God who left us the comforter upon his departure from earth. One of his main jobs is to lead us in the truth of all things. To ask us to not stand up for his truth would be a huge contradiction. A house divided cannot stand. That reference to being quiet is speaking of the 'alley bat' who is mouthing off and causing calamity. She is hell bent on being heard. She is not helping anyone but is being a nuisance. You know her and I do too. You cannot help anyone when you are not in control of your own emotional self. These women are not standing for truth. They are not protecting the cause of the abused.



Poohbear said:


> I just listened to the Marriage and Men segment. I agree with the majority of what he has said but had a few questions...
> 
> *What if a woman marries a man that makes less income than her? Is she suppose to quit her job or get a less paying job so the man can be the "breadwinner" per se?*
> No for example, in a marriage you may be more mechanically inclined than your spouse. It would not be wise to let your husband try to fix things knowing that was not his area of expertise. However, a wise wife is able to season her words and is not loud and putting down her spouse while conveying this to him. So, if you make more money, you don't have to lord it over him. If you have more education on paper than him, you don't have to seize opportunities to point that out in public, in front of the kids, etc. Those are the actions of a loud woman.
> ...



Umm, I don't think so. Some couple want kids, others do not. What I would say needs to happen a lot more is couples asking God what he wants for them in this area. Few ppl invite God into the family planning process b/c we have little to no time to deal with kids in our society and we don't really want to know what God says. He may tell the childless couple there will be none and the couple with kids there will be more. In most cases, we don't want to hear that. We want God to serve us not us serving him in whatever the outcome may be.


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## Aviah (Dec 8, 2009)

Prudent1 said:


> Hi ladies! I hope this clears up a few things for you ,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



However nothing is said about men being loud... Is it okay for men to be loud but women have to have a "quiet spirit"?
Secondly when Dr Voddie talks about women staying at home, (I didn't listen to the whole message BTW)Is it that its wrong for her to work? I can see what he means if a woman is trying to be a career woman and have a family and is working all hours of the night. But um... Still not clear on whats wrong with the woman working. Or the kids going to school...


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## momi (Dec 8, 2009)

Aviah said:


> However nothing is said about men being loud... Is it okay for men to be loud but women have to have a "quiet spirit"?
> Secondly when Dr Voddie talks about women staying at home, (I didn't listen to the whole message BTW)Is it that its wrong for her to work? I can see what he means if a woman is trying to be a career woman and have a family and is working all hours of the night. But um... Still not clear on whats wrong with the woman working. Or the kids going to school...


 
Hi Aviah,

_Have you had an opportunity to listen to the entire message?  He goes just as hard on older men who are not sober minded and have very little knowledge of the scriptures._

Re: Dr. Voddies message, he is not against women working outside of the home, however when those commitments outweigh those in the home then the entire family suffers.  Also, if you have only listened to one message I suggest you do a bit more research on him and his position.  I really cant do it justice but to sum it up:

Deutoronomy 6 commands parents to raise children that will ultimately love and serve God... it is a monumental task to do this when the public school system does not support these same values.  It is difficult to send our children out for 8 - 10 hours of the day allowing someone else to shape and mold their worldview (way of thinking) and expect to raise children that will have a true understanding of biblical matters and how we should view the world and issues based on God's word.​


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## momi (Dec 8, 2009)

]I just listened to the Marriage and Men segment. I agree with the majority of what he has said but had a few questions...

What if a woman marries a man that makes less income than her? Is she suppose to quit her job or get a less paying job so the man can be the "breadwinner" per se? I would not say that, but because there is order in the home, and the man is the head of his home the wife should be able to properly handle her man.  Meaning: She would need to make sure she is still able to respect him (which is biblical) and allow him to lead the family even though she makes more than him.  I have been in this position before and trust - it is not an easy task.

And let's say a husband that has a decent job asks his wife for $100. Is the wife suppose to be like "No, you go work for that extra $100."? My question is, why would their money be seperate in the first place?

And he mention maternal instincts alot. When married, is it a sin for a wife *not* to have children or something? No comment.


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## momi (Dec 8, 2009)

Prudent1 said:


> Hi ladies! I hope this clears up a few things for you ,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Good post.


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## goldielocs (Dec 8, 2009)

Vodie spoke at the AZ Homeschool Conference this past summer and he is wonderful.  My family started following his teachings and have seen such a huge change. My husband has stepped up to lead more in ministering to our family and my respect for him has increased a great deal.

 I have 2 of his books and this thread reminds me that I need to reread some parts. He makes a lot of sense, but I had to put some pride to the side before I could accept it. Granted, I'm still growing and am in no way perfect, but his teachings have merit.


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## Poohbear (Dec 9, 2009)

Prudent1 said:


> *What if a woman marries a man that makes less income than her? Is she suppose to quit her job or get a less paying job so the man can be the "breadwinner" per se?
> *No for example, in a marriage you may be more mechanically inclined than your spouse. It would not be wise to let your husband try to fix things knowing that was not his area of expertise. However, a wise wife is able to season her words and is not loud and putting down her spouse while conveying this to him. So, if you make more money, you don't have to lord it over him. If you have more education on paper than him, you don't have to seize opportunities to point that out in public, in front of the kids, etc. Those are the actions of a loud woman.


Well, I'm only talking about what that preacher said in the video when he said the man should be the one who financially supports the family. I'm not saying the woman should be the head of the household or loud or putting her husband down just because she makes more. I didn't ask anything about the characteristics of a loud woman...

When the Bible says "man should work by the sweat of his brow", should this man pick up an extra job so he can make more money than his wife?

Is the marriage out of the will of God if the wife makes more according to what this preacher said?

And if husband and wife are one and if the money turns into "ours" instead of being separate, then how can the man be the "breadwinner" when it comes to money if the money is combined into one bank account? *(not talking about leadership of the household or anything else).*

See, I feel like you and momi are right and this Mars Hill preacher is not being very realistic when it comes to finances within a marriage.


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## Prudent1 (Dec 9, 2009)

Aviah said:


> However nothing is said about men being loud... *Is it okay for men to be loud *but women have to have a "quiet spirit"?
> Secondly when Dr Voddie talks about women staying at home, (I didn't listen to the whole message BTW)*Is it that its wrong for her to work?* I can see what he means if a woman is trying to be a career woman and have a family and is working all hours of the night. But um... Still not clear on whats wrong with the woman working. Or the kids going to school...


From what I understand it is not ok for anyone to be loud. The word tells us often to season our words, speak the truth in love, and not to be hard, harsh, sharp, etc. It specifically instructs men who aspire to be Godly not to break the spirits of their kids and to treat his wife as he does his own skin- nourishing and with TLC. In today's world where we often desire things that go well beyond the realm of necessities most couples find themselves needing to both work. So, the care of kids gets passed to others throughout a child's entire life in most cases. Starting at daycare and ending at college graduation. We accept this as the 'norm' but historically speaking schooling outside the home, daycare, etc is relatively new ( in retrospect of the time man has inhabited the earth period). To  make a long story short, I do not understand scripture to say it is wrong for a woman to work outside the home in and of itself but, it certainly can be depending on the reasons she is working (did the couple acquire student loan debts, are they trying to have bigger better everything, is the primary care of the kids being passed off simply b/c they are selfish and don't want to invest the time, etc.). As with all things God and God alone knows our heart's motives. When we inquire of him and demonstrate a willing heart he will instruct us _individually_ on how we ought to live our lives. Whether we agree, disagree, or are indifferent, there is sufficient data to show that children do better in life when mom and dad are married and actively involved. In most cases women are better at nurturing and those who choose to stay at home are not too exhausted or distracted to put in the large amounts of time needed by kids. BTW, I have been both a stay at home mom and a career woman while parenting. Although I was able to provide more from increased finances while working, my kids were better off emotionally when I was with them and so was I. When kids are given a choice they usually want their moms with them. JMHO

*


momi said:



			Hi Aviah,
		
Click to expand...

*


momi said:


> _*Have you had an opportunity to listen to the entire message? He goes just as hard on older men who are not sober minded and have very little knowledge of the scriptures.*_
> 
> *Re: Dr. Voddies message, he is not against women working outside of the home, however when those commitments outweigh those in the home then the entire family suffers. Also, if you have only listened to one message I suggest you do a bit more research on him and his position. I really cant do it justice but to sum it up:*
> 
> ...



 ITA


Poohbear said:


> Well, I'm only talking about what that preacher said in the video when he said the man should be the one who financially supports the family. I'm not saying the woman should be the head of the household or loud or putting her husband down just because she makes more. *I didn't ask anything about the characteristics of a loud woman...*
> B/c I was a lurker for sometime and b/c I know many eyes will see this but not comment one way or another sometimes I expound on things beyond what the poster implicitly stated. I mean no offense though...This is a sensitive and often misunderstood topic and unfortunately there are many women who do put their men down and later not understand why he left etc.
> 
> *When the Bible says "man should work by the sweat of his brow", should this man pick up an extra job so he can make more money than his wife?*
> ...



Pastor Driskoll is speaking of God's perfect will but I think a lot of this fall's within God's permissive will. Since everyone's situation/ marriages are different there are guidelines set forth by God but there is nothing like a couple coming together and seeking God's will for their marriage.


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## Aviah (Dec 11, 2009)

Again, thanks guys. Its good to review what the word says, its just that sometimes it feels certain things are piled onto women more than men. JMHO. Thanks again!

ETA I will have to hear the whole message at a later date


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## ArrrBeee (Apr 24, 2010)

bumping...... I thought the Mars Hill message was on point.  Some things don't need to be sugar coated.


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