# Black Woman Killed After Giving Money To Pandhandler



## VeryBecoming

Such a tragic story. I rarely roll my window down for panhandlers but definitely won't now.






Jacquelyn Smith, 54, of Aberdeen was fatally stabbed early Saturday in Baltimore after she rolled down a car window to give money to a panhandler, her husband said.

Keith and Jacquelyn Smith danced Friday night at the American Legion on Madison Street in Baltimore, where they had brought his daughter Shavon to celebrate her 28th birthday.

Hours later, about 12:30 a.m., the 52-year-old Harford County man found himself calling 911 and rushing Jacquelyn, 54, to the emergency room. She had been stabbed by a man through their rolled-down car window after giving money to a woman panhandling in the rain in East Baltimore, he said.

Jacquelyn Smith, an electrical engineer at Aberdeen Proving Ground, had her necklace and pocketbook snatched by the woman and the man, who approached under the guise of thanking her for giving the woman money, her husband said. She died two hours after they arrived at Johns Hopkins Hospital, he said.

The pair ran away, but the woman paused long enough to say something, Keith Smith said.
“This girl actually said, ‘God bless you’ ” after the man stabbed Jacquelyn, he said.

Detectives do not yet have any leads on the pair’s identities, he said.

“They’re using this ruse as panhandlers to get the attention of their would-be victims,” Tuggle said. “We also want to caution the public about engaging with panhandlers and recognizing that not all of them have honest intent. Not all of them have real need.”

Smith, who is from Baltimore and whose daughter lives on Valley Street, now wants to get a law passed in his wife’s memory banning panhandling.


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## moneychaser

So horrible!


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## Kiowa

Sad story
...I only used to give to panhandlers POC, now I guess I won't be giving to any...


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## Crackers Phinn

When I first read the story, I hoped the scammers would be caught and punished but now I hope they try this on the wrong one and save the system some money.


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## VinDieselsWifey

The husband is related to my coworker. She was telling me about this the other day. This story really pissed me off. I feel so sorry for her family.


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## Lady-RuffDiamond

Kiowa said:


> Sad story
> ...I only used to give to panhandlers POC, now I guess I won't be giving to any...



Maybe other panhandlers will give him up. It will affect donations to them. It would be in their best interest. Who would risk giving money under those circumstances?


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## Black Ambrosia

I sometimes feel conflicted about it but I don't give money to panhandlers. There's an intersection where some of them camp out and I remember giving one food once and he looked ungrateful. Since then I've heard that some of them shoot up and drink late at night. I won't be supporting that.


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## cinnespice

May that poor woman R.I.P. Here in NYC you see some of the same people panhandling for years. The worse is when your in a store or the bank. I used to give food and not money. I had bad experiences where I got cussed out in union square in frisco. And I never roll down a car window, and all doors stay locked.


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## nysister

That is so tragic and sad. I don't give money to panhandlers. There are plenty of systems in place to help people, and I work hard for what I have.

Why do they always ask for money? If they were legit they'd stand in front of grocery stores and ask for food.


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## Menina Preta

I do not give any money to panhandlers. I have given food or drink if I came from the grocery or have leftovers. I donate through organizations. 

Also, none of the sob stories move me bc they repeat them over and over for years. There is a man on the 2/3 line still asking for exactly six dollars and forty three cents to get home to Rochester. Another woman still high as h*** begging for money on the D train on the Bronx.

Baltimore has very aggressive panhandlers who approach cars all the time. If you don’t pay the ones trying to clean your window or at least acknowledge them, they put some substance on it that is very hard to wash off. I feel for this woman’s family and I hope they find these miscreants who did this.


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## GreenEyedJen

This is so, so sad. I don't do it as much now, but I used to give to panhandlers all the time--my parents did, too. I'll have to tell my mom about this. She lives alone and works late by herself most nights, in a city. I would be heartbroken if this happened to someone I love.


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## PopLife

Menina Preta said:


> I do not give any money to panhandlers. I have given food or drink if I came from the grocery or have leftovers. I donate through organizations.
> 
> Also, none of the sob stories move me bc they repeat them over and over for years. There is a man on the 2/3 line still asking for exactly six dollars and forty three cents to get home to Rochester. Another woman still high as h*** begging for money on the D train on the Bronx.
> 
> Baltimore has very aggressive panhandlers who approach cars all the time. I*f you don’t pay the ones trying to clean your window or at least acknowledge them, they put some substance on it that is very hard to wash off.* I feel for this woman’s family and I hope they find these miscreants who did this.


This is one of the many reasons I don't give to panhandlers..a lot them have entitled attitudes. I once gave all the change I had in my car to one at the gas station and he proceeded to hand me back the pennies. Never again....


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## intellectualuva

I used to always give money to black panhandlers and it's been slowly dwindling down. I stopped giving money to grown black men after what happened to my friend and I in SF. Then I stopped giving money to teenage black boys/young men 16-22 ish I'd see begging around stores in Bmore after this kid tried to intimidate me into giving him 50 cents by stepping closer. I also used to get annoyed that they would only ask women, but never the men who also walked past them.

I was down to black women with children. I JUST gave this woman and her kids a little over 15 bucks for some food just before Thanksgiving.

This scared me as this is always my concern that a man will run up. I'll keep my doors locked and wallet closed for a while.

Plus they were getting bold anyway. Between the guy with the HelpAN-.com website that rants about child support and his baby momma and the number of time I've been told they take credit cards and wave a square attached to an iPhone for credit card processing....I'm done. It's about to be hard on everyone.

ETA. I forgot about the guy who got mad because I said I had no cash, sorry (polite as I try to be) and he got mad then tried to argue and follow me to my car saying that change wasn't cash. He was yelling loudly that coins was coins and chas was cash. I hustled toward my car and turned and told him we live in FL and it's in his best interest not to take another step. He stopped and did an about face.


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## intellectualuva

cinnespice said:


> May that poor woman R.I.P. Here in NYC you see some of the same people panhandling for years. The worse is when your in a store or the bank. I used to give food and not money. I had bad experiences where I got *cussed out in union square in frisco.* And I never roll down a car window, and all doors stay locked.



YES! This is what happened to us. We were staying at the Axiom in Union Square and was bombarded with beggars and then cursed and followed til we got to Chipotle. We were horrified and embarrassed because he yelled such lewd things. He seemed extra mad that we black women didnt give him anything, like he expects white women to keep it.moving or say nah, but WE BW owed him our attention and donations.

ETA Now that I think about it Cali panhandlers are so next level. This guy was begging for food and money at a gas station/Taco bell in Malibu or nearby...we were on the PCH. I went in  to order a few things and tried to give it to him in addition to the change...like 2 or 3 bucks. This negro hit us with the stop sign said....nah I dont eat Taco Bell and 2/3 dollars isnt buying me jack in Malibu. My best friend and I still chuckle about that guy.


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## ScorpioBeauty09

cinnespice said:


> May that poor woman R.I.P. *Here in NYC you see some of the same people panhandling for years. The worse is when your in a store or the bank.* I used to give food and not money. I had bad experiences where I got cussed out in union square in frisco. And I never roll down a car window, and all doors stay locked.


Same in the Bay Area. It's to the point I have to time my trips to the bank when there won't be panhandlers around. I can get an attitude but I'm tiny and don't look my age so people think they can get one over.When I lived in SF I had some bad experiences close to Union Square also. I'm back in Oakland now but a couple days ago, SO and I were in the car and a panhandler freaked out when SO refused to give him money. SO said he's always at the same spot. Thank goodness the light turned green within seconds and the windows and doors were all locked.

Sad story in the OP. I hope they find and arrest the people who did this.


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## simplycee

The panhandlers in Bmore are bold and fresh. I see the same ones every day and they have the nerve to fight each other for the corners.  One time I saw one guy leave his “corner”, walk around the block and get into a fairly new Nissan. After that I said nope, im not handing out money.


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## Southernbella.

I only give to bw now after a bm panhandler got aggressive with me. 

I hope they catch these losers. This was totally senseless.


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## ladysaraii

Holy crap! I used to work at APG. I don't think I knew her, but some of my friends might.


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## AmethystLily

If people want to help those in need, aren't there soup kitchens, charity orgs, and homeless shelters to volunteer or donate to?


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## intellectualuva

AmethystLily said:


> If people want to help those in need, aren't there soup kitchens, charity orgs, and homeless shelters to volunteer or donate to?



Yes. But sometimes that help (financially at least) filters through admin and structural costs and bureaucracy vs directly putting money in the hand to feed someone today/in that moment.


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## Everything Zen

Southernbella. said:


> I only give to bw now after a bm panhandler got aggressive with me.
> 
> I hope they catch these losers. This was totally senseless.



I was the same but after this I might be done with everybody. People stay getting shot up in my neighborhood in Chicago but it’s the prettiest hood you’ll ever see in life. I’m always a day late and a street away from the latest shooting. A little old white lady unnerved me yesterday bent over and creeping diagonally crossing directly towards me while I was trying to get in my gate yesterday I was watching her out of the side of my eye. I jumped when she got within 5 ft. and she acted surprised when I turned and looked directly at her like what is you doin’? 
No m’am everyone is suspect these days.


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## AmethystLily

I've heard of people using children to entice people to stop and donate, even going so far as leaving babies in the middle of the road. Then when someone does they get robbed by the nearby adults. Now if I saw a baby lying outside by him/herself I'd move on to a short (safer) distance away then stop and call the police.


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## CarefreeinChicago

I never give to pan handlers for fear of this happening to me what happened to this poor lady. I used to give all the time but a man asked a lady for a cigarette and she said she didn’t smoke and he hit her in the head with a brick after I saw that on the news down the street from my job nope. I say a little prayer for them and move along. And the lady had brain damage.


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## vevster

I only give food. It’s too dangerous to open your wallet to give money.


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## intellectualuva

vevster said:


> I only give food. It’s too dangerous to open your wallet to give money.



I don't open my wallet, but if I have or leave money in my hand...I hand it over. Opening your wallet on the street is definitely dangerous.


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## Theresamonet

I don’t give to panhandlers at all. Of any race or sex. Not money, not food, not a stick of gum. The whole thing has gotten out of hand. There are so many career beggars and scammers on the streets in Chicago, it’s ridiculous. People are feeding this system, thinking they’re doing good deeds. If I want to feed the poor, I’ll volunteer at a soup kitchen. If I want to give money, I’ll donate to a charity. 

May this woman Rest In Peace.


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## SoopremeBeing

I see Baltimore still ain’t ish. Glad I finally left. There are certain interesections that I HATED getting the red light on.

 I used to give some money to only non-White beggars, but now I don’t give anything. I haven’t carried cash in some time.


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## discodumpling

I only give money in exchange for entertainment. Yeah I know it's wrong but it's a fair exchange NYC. 
It seems that these folks weren't actual panhandlers but straight up crooks using panhandling as a ruse to rob & kill. 
Rolling down your window for various transactions is quite common in NY. I roll down for my monthly Final Call, an occasional bean pie, or an ice cold bottle of water whilst stuck on traffic in the summertime.


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## Southernbella.

Everything Zen said:


> I was the same but after this I might be done with everybody. People stay getting shot up in my neighborhood in Chicago but it’s the prettiest hood you’ll ever see in life. I’m always a day late and a street away from the latest shooting. A little old white lady unnerved me yesterday bent over and creeping diagonally crossing directly towards me while I was trying to get in my gate yesterday I was watching her out of the side of my eye. I jumped when she got within 5 ft. and she acted surprised when I turned and looked directly at her like what is you doin’?
> No m’am everyone is suspect these days.



Oh I feel you.  For me, right now, white men worry me the most. One made me so uncomfortable recently I ended up leaving an event. 

I trust nobody.


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## Reinventing21

Yeah, when I was younger I gave more readily although I called myself knowing how to judge a situation first (so naive lol).

Now that I have a child...

One time I had pulled to a stop sign and saw this woman approaching the passenger side of my car, waving.  I thought she needed directions or something so I rolled down the window.  She jumped in my car!  Talking about could I give her two dollars and ride? I did. Before she got out, she asked for more money. Umm..get out of my car?!  My child was in the back seat.

Since then, I make SURE all doors are LOCKED.  I reassessed my 'giving' nature.

The other day, though, I was coming out of a convenience store.  It was one of those that I KNEW ALWAYS had panhandlers swarming about.  I had forgotten though since I hadn't been there in ages for that very reason.  I was still putting my money away as I walked out the store.  

White male comes running up, eyeing my money.  While I deciding to possibly give him a dollar since he knew I had cash, another male (Black) comes rushing up like I had just opened up a free bank. OMG.

My child was with me. I know how to look evil when necessary. Fortunately more people were coming and eyeing them so we could get to my car.

My child is old enough now to understand so I used it as an opportunity to teach about how I had made myself an easy mark, the notion of scammers, the dangers of these situations and why it is ok to not always give.


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## SoniT

This is such a heartbreaking story. She was doing the right thing by giving back and look what happened.   I always keep my windows up and look the other way when people come up to my car and ask for money. I just don't trust people nowadays.


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## chocolat79

Thankfully, I haven’t had terrible experiences with panhandlers, but one time in ATL, I was going to give this BM some money because it was my last day going to that job and he was at that intersection, but as I was getting ready to roll down my window, he walks toward me with his crayon out and stared at me. Since then, no one gets nada. I live in SoCal now and these crazy expensive taxes we pay gonna have to suffice. 

SF panhandlers are crazy bold. I like visiting the city, but anywhere around Union Sq is too much


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## Ms. Tarabotti

cinnespice said:


> May that poor woman R.I.P. Here in NYC you see some of the same people panhandling for years. The worse is when your in a store or the bank. I used to give food and not money. I had bad experiences where I got cussed out in union square in frisco. And I never roll down a car window, and all doors stay locked.



Nope, don't give to anybody. All car doors are locked and money is put away before leaving any establishment.

 I hear the same stories year after year, each time embellishing a little more to gain sympathy. I remember seeing this guy walking jerkily through the cars asking for money for 'his condition'. At one stop, he got off and walked smoothly out the door- so much for his condition.


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## Everything Zen

I felt guilty for ignoring this BW outside of Walgreens last week who tried to interrupt me when I was on the phone (it’s my signature move to avoid panhandlers, beggars, etc. bc in general it’s rude as hell to interrupt someone’s conversation) trying to beg for something. It was just one of those days where EVERYONE is demanding something from you, it was late and I just wanted to get home. After this thread my conscience is clear.


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## moneychaser

My friend is saying the story doesn’t sound right.  Why didn’t he press the gas and drive off.


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## cocosweet

A dadgum shame. I stopped giving to panhandlers once I noticed: 
Increased sense of entitlement

Asking for more money 

Refusing food (even though you claimed you wanted the money for food).

I really loathe begging.


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## cocosweet

Everything Zen said:


> I felt guilty for ignoring this BW outside of Walgreens last week who tried to interrupt me when I was on the phone (it’s my signature move to avoid panhandlers, beggars, etc. bc in general it’s rude as hell to interrupt someone’s conversation) trying to beg for something. It was just one of those days where EVERYONE is demanding something from you, it was late and I just wanted to get home. After this thread my conscience is clear.


That’s the other thing. There’s too many of them!


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## intellectualuva

moneychaser said:


> My friend is saying the story doesn’t sound right.  Why didn’t he press the gas and drive off.



They assumed the man came up to say thank you as he was with the woman who was still lingering. Instead he stabbed her in the process of trying to steal her wallet which she still had nearby and I thought he sped off from there.

I hope that's the case and this man didnt set this sista up.


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## ScorpioBeauty09

cocosweet said:


> A dadgum shame. I stopped giving to panhandlers once I noticed:
> *Increased sense of entitlement*
> 
> Asking for more money
> 
> Refusing food (even though you claimed you wanted the money for food).
> 
> I really loathe begging.


This. I was out to dinner with SO a few months ago. It was a place where you ordered your food before sitting down. It was still summer so we ate outside even though it was nighttime. Before we walked in I noticed an older BW who was homeless around. When we came outside to sit she was still there and I noticed she kept watching me.  It was then I realized I was the only black person in the area. SO is Latino and there was an Asian family eating close to us. There was a white family but they just left. All of a sudden the homeless BW pops up in my face and asks me for some money. I was irritated and creeped out but ended up giving her some cash I had.

When I was a child, my mom would go off on panhandlers who would approach her while she was out with me or my sisters. She can't stand it.


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## ThirdEyeBeauty

You ladies are right. Many times they act entitled.  I have given complete strangers rides and often times they acted ungrateful and one time was really bad so never again. I don't give to the ones at intersections anymore but I have had people approached me while walking out of businesses.  I usually do not carry cash so it is often a no unless I am near my car (I used to carry  change but not anymore). There was one time a man asked me for an exact amount for something and if I give him that amount he would have what he needed.  So I  gave him that amount and more.  It was awhile ago so I cannot remember exactly but I  heard him tell another not to far from me the exact same line. I am done helping panhandlers.

This story is tragic.


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## Transformer

I don’t know if I told this story but my coworker took a sack of canned goods and gave it to a panhandler.  The panhandler threw those cans and broke his front window.


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## Everything Zen

ThirdEyeBeauty said:


> You ladies are right. Many times they act entitled.  I have given complete strangers rides and often times they acted ungrateful and one time was really bad so never again. I don't give to the ones at intersections anymore but I have had people approached me while walking out of businesses.  I usually do not carry cash so it is often a no unless I am near my car (I used to carry  change but not anymore). There was one time a man asked me for an exact amount for something and if I give him that amount he would have what he needed.  So I  gave him that amount and more.  It was awhile ago so I cannot remember exactly but I  heard him tell another not to far from me the exact same line. I am done helping panhandlers.
> 
> This story is tragic.



I am so glad you are no longer giving strangers rides.


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## intellectualuva

Whoever said the homeless are going to feel it were right. 

https://bsun.md/2EjxbLq



> *As death of woman who helped panhandler gets national attention, Baltimore homeless see decline in generosity*
> 
> 
> Justin Morles walked along a traffic median in Baltimore’s Otterbein neighborhood Wednesday gripping a cardboard sign that bore a simple request — he needs help and a job.
> 
> However, the homeless man’s pleas to motorists on busy Conway Street were met this week increasingly with a click of car door locks.
> 
> Since the story of a woman who was fatally stabbed in Baltimore while helping a panhandler made national news this week, Morles and some of Baltimore’s other homeless citizens who panhandle in the Inner Harbor, Downtown West and Otterbein neighborhoods say they have seen the number of motorists willing to lower their windows dive.
> 
> *“It’s embarrassing, it’s hurtful,” Morles said of hearing the car doors lock. “They’re acting like I’m not a person.”
> *
> Harford County resident Jacquelyn Smith, 54, was fatally stabbed about 12:30 a.m. Saturday after giving money to a woman in the rain at Valley and East Chase streets in Johnston Square.
> 
> Smith was seated in the front passenger seat of her car and had rolled down her window to give money to a woman carrying what appeared to be a baby and holding a cardboard sign that said “Please Help me feed my Baby.” A man then approached the car and tried to grab Smith’s wallet. After a struggle, police said, the man took out a knife and stabbed Smith.
> 
> The story made national news this week, prompting an outpouring of support for the Smith family and widespread shock and outrage about violence against a good Samaritan.
> 
> Some, however, also pointed to Smith’s death as warning to avoid interactions with panhandlers and homeless. Media mogul
> 
> *Oprah Winfrey tweeted about the incident Tuesday, saying she had lowered her window for panhandlers many times but would “think twice” before doing it again.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For some of the homeless people in Baltimore who depend on panhandling, Smith’s death has dealt a devastating blow to the generosity they count on from motorists.
> 
> *Morles tried positioning himself near an active construction site on West Conway Street Wednesday, where workers could be seen from the roadway. The 35-year-old hoped the workers’ presence would make drivers feel that it was less risky to roll down their windows for him while they waited for traffic lights to turn green.*
> 
> “It messes with me,” Morles said of people’s fear of interacting with him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Morles usually panhandles for about four hours a day, between his morning methadone treatments that stave off his heroin cravings and the 2:30 p.m. deadline to check into a shelter for the night. If Morles misses the check-in, he said, he is not allowed to sleep there for the night.
> 
> 
> In those four hours panhandling, Morles asks for job leads and tries to make about $20 — just enough to pay for a pack of cigarettes and some fast food that will keep him full until the next day. On Wednesday, he panhandled for about six hours and made only $4.
> 
> “My main thing is I want a job,” he said. The attack “is going to make it harder. Who’s going to take a chance on me now?”
> 
> Stereotyping of the homeless is a pervasive problem that tends to gain traction when stories like Smith’s gain attention, said Kevin Lindamood, president and CEO of Health Care for the Homeless in Baltimore.
> 
> “What happened last weekend is a horrible crime,” Lindamood said, “but it really has nothing to do with property homelessness and public begging.”
> 
> He said the irony of refusing to interact with homeless people and those who panhandle is that it can worsen their isolation and inability to rejoin mainstream society.
> 
> “Whenever fear is involved like this, whenever there’s over-generalization from an isolated incident, it tends to dehumanize and other-ize and push us away from one another,” Lindamood said. “If we're really going to change the conversation, we've got to recognize our shared humanity. And that doesn't happen when we're scared of one another.”
> 
> Keith Pearson, 32, has been living on the streets of Baltimore since his wife died about three years ago. He often wanders between cars that are stopped at traffic lights near the Baltimore Convention Centerand Camden Yards, asking drivers for change.
> 
> 
> Since Smith’s killing, Pearson has noticed people are treating him with more apprehension than usual.
> 
> *One passerby spotted him walking down the street this week, turned around and sprinted in the opposite direction*. Another man rolled down his window and appeared to jokingly ask if Pearson was going to stab him.
> 
> “*Yesterday was real bad,” he said of panhandling Tuesday. “We’re talking three to four hours, to make not even what it cost to go to Burger King.”*
> 
> Lee Martin of the Our Daily Bread hot meal program in Baltimore has some advice for those looking to help the homeless in a safe and constructive way. He recommended carrying a list of charitable organizations that offer free services, meals and beds. The strategy gives people an easy way to direct those who struggle with what he called residence poverty to find the organizations that are immediately available to address their needs, he said.
> 
> Neighbors who spot people in crisis on the street can also call the United Way of Central Maryland at 211 or the Baltimore City non-emergency help service at 311, Lindamood said. Those services have trained outreach workers who can come offer assistance to those in need of shelter and medical aid, he said.
> 
> *Pearson said the one aspect of panhandling that people do not seem to consider is that asking for change is better than stealing food out of desperation*.
> 
> “*This is the humble way,” he said. “I’d rather humbly ask somebody instead of take.*”
> 
> Privacy Policy
> Copyright © 2018


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## OhTall1

Ms. Tarabotti said:


> Nope, don't give to anybody.


Same here.
I'm a naturally suspicious person, but stories like this are why I never open my wallet to panhandlers on the street.  I've always been convinced that there was a possibility that it was a ploy to distract me so a second person could come by and rob me.


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## Everything Zen

intellectualuva said:


> Whoever said the homeless are going to feel it were right.
> 
> https://bsun.md/2EjxbLq



I see a Kaizen opportunity for a not for profit....


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## Reinventing21

That article rubs me the wrong way even though I feel for the homeless. The problem isn't that people are now afraid to help pandhandlers, but that our society is failing in ways that are causing the need for so many people to have to panhandle in the first place. 

Where is the story on that??!!


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## intellectualuva

Reinventing21 said:


> That article rubs me the wrong way even though I feel for the homeless. The problem isn't that people are now afraid to help pandhandlers, but that our society is failing in ways that are causing the need for so many people to have to panhandle in the first place.
> 
> Where is the story on that??!!



Not that I disagree what the real story is....

They've done stories on the poverty gap and there have been documentaries about it as well. 

People all over the country are writing about the rise of poverty, dangerous wealth gap etc....but even if there are policies to address it....there will still always be a segment of the population who will be poor/homeless (and likely an overwhelming number of them mentally ill) will rely on the generosity of strangers. If that generosity is minimized due to fear...people will feel it.


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## Reinventing21

^^^ Oh I agree with you definitely that it is important for people to understand how much their generosity is necessary.  No doubt

It is just that I feel that in that article, the writer should have included a reference to those societal issues you listed as well.  Otherwise, I feel it lets the government off the hook so to speak. 

There are so many things wrong from lack of resources for the mentally ill and challeged to lack of employment, poor schools, charities that misappropriate funds and donations etc., and goverment spending on everything but the above. (Not just our government, but other wealthy goverments with third world poor populations.) 

I don't know...Yes, I think an article highlighting the need for continued public generosity is pertinent, but at the same time people need to be reminded to continue to push for real systemic change.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin

I dont give money directly to people anymore, we contribute to organizations or donate our time. 

The one exception to that is a girl who stopped me at the gas station once and said she’d been kicked out of her house by her relative. She was in her pjs, her hair bonnet still on, she was young and soft spoken, and I could see had everything she owned right there in her car. She was almost about to run out of gas. I happened to have $40 in my purse (very rare for me to have cash!) and gave it all to her. I felt like she and I were supposed to cross paths that day, I felt it from the moment she pulled up. I wonder what happened to her and in hindsight, wish I’d done more. 

But no, as a general rule, I dont give money to pan handlers.


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## BillsBackerz67

99% of the time I’m always alone so I do don’t roll down my windows to give to anyone. Also if it’s past a certain time at night I don’t wait at red lights at all. I treat it as a stop sign and KIM. There is no reason anyone should have to wait a prolonged period of time for a light to turn green when its dark and desolate out.


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## intellectualuva

BillsBackerz67 said:


> 99% of the time I’m always alone so I do don’t roll down my windows to give to anyone. Also if it’s past a certain time at night I don’t wait at red lights at all. I treat it as a stop sign and KIM. There is no reason anyone should have to wait a prolonged period of time for a light to turn green when its dark and desolate out.



This is what my cousin does. She works nightshift and said she doesn't stop at stopsigns or stoplights depending on how late or early she goes in because she's afraid of carjackings and beggars approaching the car like they had before.


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## Gin&Tonic

I was done with panhandlers after my BFF got hurt. She reached into her bag to give money and the guy grabbed her purse. It was a cross body so he drug her a bit and hurt her arm getting the purse off. It took months for the pain to stop.


----------



## BillsBackerz67

intellectualuva said:


> This is what my cousin does. She works nightshift and said she doesn't stop at stopsigns or stoplights depending on how late or early she goes in because she's afraid of carjackings and beggars approaching the car like they had before.


Yep me working nights was the reason behind all of this. I would either work 11p to 7a or 7p to 3a...there was one light that was 4.5 minutes long for no reason. After a few shifts I said nope not doing this and ran it. I still obey stop signs because of random pedestrians and people driving without headlights though.


----------



## intellectualuva

BillsBackerz67 said:


> Yep me working nights was the reason behind all of this. I would either work 11p to 7a or 7p to 3a...there was one light that was 4.5 minutes long for no reason. After a few shifts I said nope not doing this and ran it. I still obey stop signs because of *random pedestrians and people driving without headlights though.*



I should correct....she does a careful rolling stop at all of them. My cousin isnt blasting through intersections at 30mph for the same reasons you mentioned. Plus in Baltimore, they will walk right in front of your car even outside of intersections....they do not care...so you have to be mindful anyway.


----------



## intellectualuva

This reminds me of something that happened over 10 years ago going to work super early one morning. When I first looked to make the turn down the street lined like woods on both sides to exit the complex, there was no one on the street or even from what I could see between the few cars parked along the street. After I completed the turn and was about to really hit the accelerator, this guy stepped right out from out of nowhere. Had I been going any faster, I would not have been able to avoid him. I swerved around him, drove maybe 20 feet before coming to a stop.  In my anger, I wanted to at least roll down a window to curse him out, but something stopped me just as I was about to hit the button and said look in the rearview mirror and said GO. This guy was fully bundled in a hat, hoodie, but I couldn't see his face because while he was facing me, his head was down. I could not even see his race because he was wearing gloves....it was spring...I hit that accelerator and was OUT. 

I didn't even think to report suspicious activity, I was so darn scared and just wanted to get to work and off the road. 

I have no doubts dude was up to something...I just hope no one else was a victim.


----------



## anilyn

PopLife said:


> This is one of the many reasons I don't give to panhandlers..a lot them have entitled attitudes. *I once gave all the change I had in my car to one at the gas station and he proceeded to hand me back the pennies. *Never again....



I politely told a panhandler "I'm sorry, I don't have any cash on me" and he told me the location of the nearest ATM. I was so shocked at the audacity of this dude, I didn't know whether to  or


----------



## MissNina

I give panhandlers money, but never at night unless there’s tons of ppl around (like downtown or something) and def not through my car at night. Even during the daytime, if I give money from my car, I never roll my window all the way down and I get the money out before I even call them over to me. 

Never had a bad experience, but I feel so bad for that lady’s family. Her poor husband and daughter. I prob won’t stop helping ppl when I feel led, but I will definitely be even more cautious.



intellectualuva said:


> This reminds me of something that happened over 10 years ago going to work super early one morning. When I first looked to make the turn down the street lined like woods on both sides to exit the complex, there was no one on the street or even from what I could see between the few cars parked along the street. After I completed the turn and was about to really hit the accelerator, this guy stepped right out from out of nowhere. Had I been going any faster, I would not have been able to avoid him. I swerved around him, drove maybe 20 feet before coming to a stop.  In my anger, I wanted to at least roll down a window to curse him out, but something stopped me just as I was about to hit the button and said look in the rearview mirror and said GO. This guy was fully bundled in a hat, hoodie, but I couldn't see his face because while he was facing me, his head was down. I could not even see his race because he was wearing gloves....it was spring...I hit that accelerator and was OUT.
> 
> I didn't even think to report suspicious activity, I was so darn scared and just wanted to get to work and off the road.
> 
> I have no doubts dude was up to something...I just hope no one else was a victim.



Okay, that’s hella creepy. Yikes.


----------



## moneychaser

Yearrrss ago I had a homeless person ask for money because he were hungry.  While I was in McDonald’s I decided to purchase him a meal and the guy had the nerve to tell me he doesn’t eat McDonalds lol


----------



## SpiritJunkie

BillsBackerz67 said:


> 99% of the time I’m always alone so I do don’t roll down my windows to give to anyone. Also if it’s past a certain time at night I don’t wait at red lights at all. I treat it as a stop sign and KIM. There is no reason anyone should have to wait a prolonged period of time for a light to turn green when its dark and desolate out.


A few years ago I was driving this guy I was dating car home because he drank too much..after a night out.. I stopped at a red light and someone in a dark hoody was approaching the car... I just sped off. Can’t trust no one.


----------



## SpiritJunkie

Sorry to hear about this lady


----------



## simone103

When I lived in NYC, I remember someone told me that her father's friend had a regular full-time job, but would panhandle for money at stop lights as his part-time job (and he made good money at it too) . Ever since she told me that  story I side-eye every panhandler begging for money at an intersection. This may not be the case for all of them, but I think for the a lot of them it's a straight up hustle.


----------



## BrickbyBrick

My mom and I had just finished shopping at BJ's and were loading my kids in the car, followed by groceries when a black guy in decent clothes offered to assist getting the groceries in.  My mom didn't resist and I was getting my son in his carseat so I wasn't close enough to the back of the car for him to hear me say no thanks.  I was still buckling my son in when the guy started literally grabbing my stuff and and throwing it willy nilly into the car.  as soon as i buckled in my son, I ran over and told him we have it from here.  That fool stopped and said "you got a tenny on you?".  I couldn't believe it. a ten spot for throwing my paper towels into my daughter's car seat.  Maaaaaaaan.....  I told him I didn't have any cash and that's when I saw my mom reach for her wallet. I told him she ain't got none either.  he and I stared each other down for a good minute, like he wanted to do something.  he sucked his teeth and walked away.

I am through with giving on the street.


----------



## GreenEyedJen

Dang. I do realize we need to be careful in these streets, but a lot of these posts read so much like how the others think about us--_I had one bad experience with a Black person, so obviously all of them are like this and they don't need any help from us GOOD folk_--that it's making me a bit upset. 

I do get the need to be careful, but many people begging are doing it because they have to in order to survive. I'm surprised so many of us see it another way. I'm not posting this to be judgmental. I just needed to say that.


----------



## Reinventing21

@GreenEyedJen 

I completely get what you are saying because even though I agree with why people have changed their minds about giving, I do find myself cringing for the reason you described too.

However, the real problem is , how do we know whether it is a scam or not?  People find it easier to just always give or always say no, instead of trying to figure out the true intentions of the person at that moment.  Add in possible dangers...if it is dark, if you have your children with you, etc., you many choose to err on the side of safety even if your heart goes out to these people.  

Plus what some people are describing sounds at times like outright bullying and harrassment by the person asking for a handout!  That is not acceptable either.


----------



## BillsBackerz67

GreenEyedJen said:


> Dang. I do realize we need to be careful in these streets, but a lot of these posts read so much like how the others think about us--_I had one bad experience with a Black person, so obviously all of them are like this and they don't need any help from us GOOD folk_--that it's making me a bit upset.
> 
> I do get the need to be careful, but many people begging are doing it because they have to in order to survive. I'm surprised so many of us see it another way. I'm not posting this to be judgmental. I just needed to say that.


My personal safety will always trumps how anyone else feels homeless or not. For every begger I say no to on the street, there will be another person that will say yes and give food/ money. Even a few posters still say that they will give to people despite what happened to this woman. They’ll be fine.


----------



## GreenEyedJen

Reinventing21 said:


> @GreenEyedJen
> 
> I completely get what you are saying because even though I agree with why people have changed their minds about giving, I do find myself cringing for the reason you described too.
> 
> However, the real problem is , how do we know whether it is a scam or not?  People find it easier to just always give or always say no, instead of trying to figure out the true intentions of the person at that moment.  Add in possible dangers...if it is dark, if you have your children with you, etc., you many choose to err on the side of safety even if your heart goes out to these people.
> 
> Plus what some people are describing sounds at times like outright bullying and harrassment by the person asking for a handout!  That is not acceptable either.





BillsBackerz67 said:


> My personal safety will always trumps how anyone else feels homeless or not. For every begger I say no to on the street, there will be another person that will say yes and give food/ money. Even a few posters still say that they will give to people despite what happened to this woman. They’ll be fine.



I never said that someone else's needs should trump your own. I mean, obviously...it's not smart to pull out cash in a deserted alley or the middle of the night. You also shouldn't give money that you need for yourself. Those are things that should be clear from the get-go. Again, my issue is equating _every homeless person _with the one guy that gave you a hard time--just like whites do with us.


----------



## BillsBackerz67

GreenEyedJen said:


> I never said that someone else's needs should trump your own. I mean, obviously...it's not smart to pull out cash in a deserted alley or the middle of the night. You also shouldn't give money that you need for yourself. Those are things that should be clear from the get-go. Again, my issue is equating _every homeless person _with the one guy that gave you a hard time--just like whites do with us.


I do not think all homeless people are dangerous. However, being a woman of my size/ stature and constantly being alone, I’m always going to assume the worse to keep myself in check. I do the same thing at work when I’m dealing with patients. I know ALL of them don’t have AIDS/HIV or another blood borne diseases but I wear gloves anyway. Standard precautions.


The OP is about a woman being flogged to death by a homeless person so naturally the discussion is going to go in the direction of negative experiences dealing with the homeless. I am very empathetic to an extent and I help out in other ways than directly handing money to them.


----------



## BrickbyBrick

To be clear, I am an equal opportunity non-giver.  As we all know, grimy people come in all colors, shapes,sizes, and genders.

Just watch the panhandlers on Atlantic Avenue by Bedford when they discuss who has got which stretch of the Avenue for the next couple of hours to ask for money on.  Or the panhandler who sorted the coins he got for the day and threw out the pennies and left them on the street.

Or the one in Westbury who had a better coat and cleaner Adidas then I did.

Guess I'm jaded.

ETA: I forgot about the two in downtown brooklyn who stated they were hungry, and my husband, who isn't jaded, offered to walk them into a place of their choice to buy food and they asked if they could have the money instead.  Only one took him up on the offer. the other one tried to negotiate.


----------



## GreenEyedJen

Clearly, the meaning of my post was lost in translation. Nevermind.


----------



## Ms. Tarabotti

GreenEyedJen said:


> Dang. I do realize we need to be careful in these streets, but a lot of these posts read so much like how the others think about us--_I had one bad experience with a Black person, so obviously all of them are like this and they don't need any help from us GOOD folk_--that it's making me a bit upset.
> 
> I do get the need to be careful, but many people begging are doing it because they have to in order to survive. I'm surprised so many of us see it another way. I'm not posting this to be judgmental. I just needed to say that.





GreenEyedJen said:


> Clearly, the meaning of my post was lost in translation. Nevermind.



I think that I get your meaning and many people are out there because they need help to survive.

The problem is that sometimes it is hard to distinguish between who needs actual help and who is scamming people. Living in NYC, I have seen both, people who are in genuine need and are grateful for anything that they are given as well as people who fake disabilities, carry dolls around so that it looks like they have a child with them or berate/try to shame people when they don't get what they think they deserve.

 Some people will give to anyone in need, some people make a distinction between who to give to (women with children, elderly, etc), some give to charities that help the homeless and some don't give at all. People need to give at the level they feel comfortable and safe with.


----------



## HappilyLiberal

GreenEyedJen said:


> Dang. I do realize we need to be careful in these streets, but a lot of these posts read so much like how the others think about us--_I had one bad experience with a Black person, so obviously all of them are like this and they don't need any help from us GOOD folk_--that it's making me a bit upset.
> 
> I do get the need to be careful, but many people begging are doing it because they have to in order to survive. I'm surprised so many of us see it another way. I'm not posting this to be judgmental. I just needed to say that.




Sorry, but my safety comes first.  I do not give to panhandlers on the street.  I do donate my time and my money to charitable agencies set up to help street folks.  If they don't want to go through those charities, that's on them!  And quite frankly, I would not help black panhandlers either!


----------



## GreenEyedJen

Ms. Tarabotti said:


> I think that I get your meaning and many people are out there because they need help to survive.
> 
> The problem is that sometimes it is hard to distinguish between who needs actual help and who is scamming people. Living in NYC, I have seen both, people who are in genuine need and are grateful for anything that they are given as well as people who fake disabilities, carry dolls around so that it looks like they have a child with them or berate/try to shame people when they don't get what they think they deserve.
> 
> Some people will give to anyone in need, some people make a distinction between who to give to (women with children, elderly, etc), some give to charities that help the homeless and some don't give at all. People need to give at the level they feel comfortable and safe with.





HappilyLiberal said:


> Sorry, but my safety comes first.  I do not give to panhandlers on the street.  I do donate my time and my money to charitable agencies set up to help street folks.  If they don't want to go through those charities, that's on them!  And quite frankly, I would not help black panhandlers either!



The spirit and intent of my post is clearly not understood. I'm not stating that there are people that need help, even to someone's personal detriment--I'm stating that _the way they are being talked about is exactly the way other groups talk about us. _It's not about the _color_ of the homeless person. It's about _the way they are viewed in society (and this thread) as a group. Just like us. _I can't explain anymore. So, again, nevermind.


----------



## Reinventing21

^^I think the reason you feel misunderstood is because you are trying to compare apples with oranges.  I don't think you can compare the way people on this board are talking in this discussion about panhandlers with how other groups talk about Blacks.

The main message I see here regarding the OP is that people are saying they do not feel safe AT TIMES giving to people in the streets AND since there is no quick way to determine who is honest vs who is fraudulent, women are saying they choose to err on the side of caution.

I don't think anyone on this board is actually  looking down on those truly in need or even stereotyping a whole demographic. 

People ARE talking about negative experiences with giving to help others become aware of potentially dangerous situations as that is what the OP is about...a woman who was killed trying to be kind.


----------



## Gin&Tonic

GreenEyedJen said:


> Dang. I do realize we need to be careful in these streets, but a lot of these posts read so much like how the others think about us--_I had one bad experience with a Black person, so obviously all of them are like this and they don't need any help from us GOOD folk_--that it's making me a bit upset.
> 
> I do get the need to be careful, but many people begging are doing it because they have to in order to survive. I'm surprised so many of us see it another way. I'm not posting this to be judgmental. I just needed to say that.



From childhood we are told to not talk to strangers. It is sound advice. You are not going to shame me for realizing that we are stupid to be going around handing out cash to random folks on the street. Bad experience or not it dumb in times like these.

I have had several bad experiences  , I just didn't feel like going there. Here one more:

I was a fish spot during a street festival. All races were in line for fish. The panhandler approached me and asked for money. I quietly said that I didn't carry cash. He told me that if he didn't get cash , he would kill someone. He proceeded to whisper threats and scare me until the men in line heard and came to my rescue .


----------



## GreenEyedJen

Gin&Tonic said:


> From childhood we are told to not talk to strangers. It is sound advice. You are not going to shame me for realizing that we are stupid to be going around handing out cash to random folks on the street. Bad experience or not it dumb in times like these.
> 
> I have had several bad experiences  , I just didn't feel like going there. Here one more:
> 
> I was a fish spot during a street festival. All races were in line for fish. The panhandler approached me and asked for money. I quietly said that I didn't carry cash. He told me that if he didn't get cash , he would kill someone. He proceeded to whisper threats and scare me until the men in line heard and came to my rescue .



No one is shaming you. Did you read the rest of my posts? 

This is just ridiculous at this point. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Have a good weekend.


----------



## TrueBeliever

GreenEyedJen said:


> I never said that someone else's needs should trump your own. I mean, obviously...it's not smart to pull out cash in a deserted alley or the middle of the night. You also shouldn't give money that you need for yourself. Those are things that should be clear from the get-go. Again, my issue is equating _every homeless person _with the one guy that gave you a hard time--just like whites do with us.



Some people need a reason to not help others just like some whites need a reason to hate blacks.  They were going to be that way regardless.

That said, for me it's like tipping. I give when I feel like it.


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

GreenEyedJen said:


> Dang. I do realize we need to be careful in these streets, but a lot of these posts read so much like how the others think about us--_I had one bad experience with a Black person, so obviously all of them are like this and they don't need any help from us GOOD folk_--that it's making me a bit upset.
> 
> I do get the need to be careful, but many people begging are doing it because they have to in order to survive. I'm surprised so many of us see it another way. I'm not posting this to be judgmental. I just needed to say that.


But you are comparing something that NO ONE can change (and why would you want to change) to something that can be changed.  I'm a little upset with that.  I help the needy.


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

GreenEyedJen said:


> I never said that someone else's needs should trump your own. I mean, obviously...it's not smart to pull out cash in a deserted alley or the middle of the night. You also shouldn't give money that you need for yourself. Those are things that should be clear from the get-go. Again, my issue is equating _every homeless person _with the one guy that gave you a hard time--just like whites do with us.


Who did that?  Some ladies said they will never help a *panhandler* again.  What's wrong with that if they free uncomfortable? This conversation should not have gotten to this level of talking about black vs white or something.   It almost seems calculating.


----------



## BrickbyBrick

GreenEyedJen said:


> Clearly, the meaning of my post was lost in translation. Nevermind.



I want to apologize.  If my post came off like I as though I was disagreeing, it was more that I'm still salty at some of those fools.

I do understand and your meaning was not lost.  In fact, I wish I felt the same.  I've just been on the receiving end of one too many scams to ever see someone on the street with a less than cynical eye.  But you balance people like me out and I thank you for that.


----------



## myoung

Update:

*Husband, stepdaughter arrested for 'staged brutal killing' of woman said to be helping panhandler*

https://www.wusa9.com/mobile/articl...ndler/65-b0fd2c79-43e4-4253-b67d-ae0bd9503439


----------



## VinDieselsWifey

myoung said:


> Update:
> 
> *Husband, stepdaughter arrested for 'staged brutal killing' of woman said to be helping panhandler*
> 
> https://www.wusa9.com/mobile/articl...ndler/65-b0fd2c79-43e4-4253-b67d-ae0bd9503439




Oh my gosh!!! That is horrible.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

Good Lordt!


----------



## LostInAdream

Crazy!! They were trying to flee too. Why not just divorce the woman?


----------



## intellectualuva

I was coming here to update this thread. So the husband and stepdaughter set her up. smh.


----------



## firecracker

This is just sad and crazy.  I always wonder when people plan out these family or friends murders how in their right mind do they really think they will get away with it.


----------



## Theresamonet

Wow!


----------



## Theresamonet

The murders fake crying over Valerie’s death bac in Dec.

I wonder what tipped off the police, and why they were just now trying to flee the country.


----------



## FoxxyLocs

Boy there are some truly sick and evil people in this world.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

LostInAdream said:


> Crazy!! They were trying to flee too. Why not just divorce the woman?


Insurance money


----------



## intellectualuva

> “I already know it’s Keith,” he said. Trisvan said police provided no information to the family, but detectives had increasingly been asking the family about his sister’s relationship with her husband.
> 
> “All the questioning has been specific to Keith. That kind of sums it right there,” he said. “It never made sense. I told [detectives] from the very beginning there are no suspects out there.”
> 
> 
> Trisvan said Keith Smith moved out of his sister’s Aberdeen house two weeks ago. He handed the keys over to Trisvan, and told the family he was moving to Florida. *Trisvan said his sister owned the home.*
> 
> He said *Keith Smith removed all the appliances from the home.*



https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-jacquelyn-smith-update-20190303-story.html

I'm not surprised SHE owned the home. All that talk about what she does for a living, nothing about him though. Usually articles say, The husband, insert job here, ......something referencing him working and I didn't see a single article mentioning that. 

As for taking out all the appliances, I dont understand. What kinda move us that.....


----------



## intellectualuva

Him and his daughter look VERY east Baltimore.....


----------



## Transformer

intellectualuva said:


> https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-jacquelyn-smith-update-20190303-story.html
> 
> I'm not surprised SHE owned the home. All that talk about what she does for a living, nothing about him though. Usually articles say, The husband, insert job here, ......something referencing him working and I didn't see a single article mentioning that.
> 
> As for taking out all the appliances, I dont understand. What kinda move us that.....




He sold whatever wasn’t attached.


----------



## Transformer

Theresamonet said:


> The murders fake crying over Valerie’s death bac in Dec.
> 
> I wonder what tipped off the police, and why they were just now trying to flee the country.
> 
> View attachment 443753 View attachment 443755



Are these two really  blood kin?  They appear very familiar even for father and daughter.  Do anyone know if the husband is AA?


“Smith, who is from Baltimore and whose daughter lives on Valley Street, now wants to get a law passed in his wife’s memory banning panhandling”


Now panhandlers need to file a defamation lawsuit against him.  They are now right along with Jussie.


----------



## NaturalEnigma

I knew the husband was involved. That story sounded mad shady. How could he just let his wife get stabbed repeatedly sitting right next to her in the car. If she was shot with a gun then I could understand, but stabbing? I would assume her husband would have blocked or took a couple of stabs before he let her die. It’s a darn shame.


----------



## BillsBackerz67

intellectualuva said:


> https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-jacquelyn-smith-update-20190303-story.html
> 
> I'm not surprised SHE owned the home. All that talk about what she does for a living, nothing about him though. Usually articles say, The husband, insert job here, ......something referencing him working and I didn't see a single article mentioning that.
> 
> As for taking out all the appliances, I dont understand. What kinda move us that.....


I swear to god I’m reading the article like “ok and what was his job?”...girl....


----------



## janaq2003

Yall! No joke.. I thought the hubby was suspect from day one. So sad


----------



## Southernbella.

I watch a lot of murder shows so I'm not surprised it ended up being the dh but the stepdaughter too?


----------



## moneychaser

moneychaser said:


> My friend is saying the story doesn’t sound right.  Why didn’t he press the gas and drive off.



I was right!!!


----------



## intellectualuva

BillsBackerz67 said:


> I swear to god I’m reading the article like “ok and what was his job?”...girl....



I followed this story closely and read so many articles and not one mentioned his work. None.


----------



## sgold04

Wow


----------



## weaveadiva

Southernbella. said:


> I watch a lot of murder shows so I'm not surprised it ended up being the dh but the stepdaughter too?


Same thing I thought. Maybe she was arrested for conspiracy. I think that's what it's called. When a person doesn't commit the crime but knows of it and/or has a hand in planning it.


----------



## myoung

intellectualuva said:


> https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-jacquelyn-smith-update-20190303-story.html
> 
> I'm not surprised SHE owned the home. All that talk about what she does for a living, nothing about him though. Usually articles say, The husband, insert job here, ......something referencing him working and I didn't see a single article mentioning that.
> 
> As for taking out all the appliances, I dont understand. What kinda move us that.....



The stepdaughter’s cry was so fake in the video at the end of this article when the husband was trying to tell his story.  Also, he didn’t sound believable because he had to keep correcting himself.


----------



## VeryBecoming

Maaaan, what!? I didn't think this story could get any more tragic but this is just infuriating!


----------



## Crackers Phinn

intellectualuva said:


> Him and his daughter look VERY east Baltimore.....


East Baltimore must be terrible.


----------



## Kiowa

Why were they running to Mexico? Mexico has an extradition treaty with the US, and would have just shipped them back....


----------



## intellectualuva

Crackers Phinn said:


> East Baltimore must be terrible.



Whoa now.....be nice. Thats my hood.


----------



## intellectualuva

Kiowa said:


> Why were they running to Mexico? Mexico has an extradition treaty with the US, and would have just shipped them back....



Either they are idiots believing those old hollywood movies where criminals try to escape to Mexico. Or they considered heading further south, though I doubt they would've made it to Bolivia, Ecuador or Nicaragua which are known to "ignore" the treaty. ....now Im too lazy to see if you can get to these with a car, so don't judge me. I think you can, if you aren't murdered or kidnapped on the way. I doubt they speak spanish, so they would be easy pickings.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

intellectualuva said:


> *Either they are idiots believing those old hollywood movies where criminals try to escape to Mexico. *Or they considered heading further south, though I doubt they would've made it to Bolivia, Ecuador or Nicaragua which are known to "ignore" the treaty. ....now Im too lazy to see if you can get to these with a car, so don't judge me. I think you can, if you aren't murdered or kidnapped on the way. I doubt they speak spanish, so they would be easy pickings.


I was just about to type this.

Reality based crime shows come back with the husband as the killer 9 times out of 10.   Keep ya eyes on these dudes!


----------



## shelli4018

BillsBackerz67 said:


> I swear to god I’m reading the article like “ok and what was his job?”...girl....


He was a “minister.” Im gonna assume a self proclaimed one.


----------



## Misseyl

Imagine I told my mother about this story.  How unfortunate that he killed his wife and have his daughter as an accomplice.


----------



## SoopremeBeing

intellectualuva said:


> Whoa now.....be nice. Thats my hood.



I always thought it was West Baltimore that was a no-go. I remember my ex saying I couldn’t go there unless he was with me.


----------



## SoopremeBeing

Kiowa said:


> Why were they running to Mexico? Mexico has an extradition treaty with the US, and would have just shipped them back....



Right! If you’re gonna commit murder and flee the country, check the extradition laws first. I had a feeling that panhandler story wouldn’t hold up. People always get caught by not taking that ONE extra step.


----------



## cinnespice

Kiowa said:


> Why were they running to Mexico? Mexico has an extradition treaty with the US, and would have just shipped them back....


Cause they dumb and dumb people do dumb stuff. If that was the case my behind would be in the middle of south america by now. I knew something was off with this case.


----------



## intellectualuva

SoopremeBeing said:


> I always thought it was West Baltimore that was a no-go. I remember my ex saying I couldn’t go there unless he was with me.



Eastsiders say that about the west side and vice versa. I have family and spent time on both sides. I am either biased or I am just more comfortable with the worst elements on the east side. There are neighborhoods on the east side that I would drive through and/or stop at night (there is a bulletproof chinese restaurant I used to love to go to) whose equivalent on the west side I would never. In fact there are west sides neighborhoods that I would struggle (or atleast would back in the day, they may be gentrified now) to do a rolling stop during the day from me.


----------



## natural2008

Now makes me wonder if the step daughter is really is girlfriend and they aren't really "related."


----------



## prettyinpurple

natural2008 said:


> Now makes me wonder if the step daughter is really is girlfriend and they aren't really "related."


I had the same thought .

This is a whole mess and I feel so bad for the victim's family.


----------



## Kiowa

cinnespice said:


> Cause they dumb and dumb people do dumb stuff. If that was the case my behind would be in the middle of south america by now. I knew something was off with this case.



Even if you left IDTV on in the background, you would be like...


----------



## intellectualuva

shelli4018 said:


> He was a “minister.” Im gonna assume a self proclaimed one.



He also claims to be truck driver....finally found a source.


----------



## Zuleika

Nineteen years earlier, Keith Smith had confessed to robbing the First Union Bank in Timonium on three separate occasions between December 1999 and August 2000.

Smith's robbery spree came to an end on September 1, 2000, when Baltimore County Police spotted a gold Maxima that fit the description of the wanted vehicle involved in a bank robbery four days before.

The driver, who was later identified as Keith Smith, led police on a car chase throughout the city when he crashed into a Baltimore City Police cruiser at the intersection of Ashburton Street and Edmondson Avenue in West Baltimore.

According to Baltimore County Police reports, *Smith* *told* *police* *he* *had* *recently* *found* *out* *that* *he* *was* *HIV* *positive*,  and that he lost his job at FedEx after racking up too many points on his driving record. He told police that he was a single parent and needed money to pay overdue bills.

*Smith* *was* *found* *guilty* *of the robberies and was sentenced to 12 years in prison.
*
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wmar2news.com/news/crime-checker/baltimore-city-crime/husband-accused-of-good-samaritans-murder-used-to-rob-banks?_amp=true


----------



## thickness

Zuleika said:


> Nineteen years earlier, Keith Smith had confessed to robbing the First Union Bank in Timonium on three separate occasions between December 1999 and August 2000.
> 
> Smith's robbery spree came to an end on September 1, 2000, when Baltimore County Police spotted a gold Maxima that fit the description of the wanted vehicle involved in a bank robbery four days before.
> 
> The driver, who was later identified as Keith Smith, led police on a car chase throughout the city when he crashed into a Baltimore City Police cruiser at the intersection of Ashburton Street and Edmondson Avenue in West Baltimore.
> 
> According to Baltimore County Police reports, *Smith* *told* *police* *he* *had* *recently* *found* *out* *that* *he* *was* *HIV* *positive*,  and that he lost his job at FedEx after racking up too many points on his driving record. He told police that he was a single parent and needed money to pay overdue bills.
> 
> *Smith* *was* *found* *guilty* *of the robberies and was sentenced to 12 years in prison.
> *
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wmar2news.com/news/crime-checker/baltimore-city-crime/husband-accused-of-good-samaritans-murder-used-to-rob-banks?_amp=true


OMG! I wonder if she knew this.


----------



## intellectualuva

This sweet looking engineer at APG married an HIV positive likely unemployed convicted felon???


----------



## FoxxyLocs

Wow


----------



## intellectualuva

@Zuleika legit dropped a bombshell on this thread. 

I just dont understand why we are just learning about his criminal history now. I'm surprised it didnt come out before they ran away. And how long ago was the warrant issued for them to be caught in TX for an outstanding warrant???


----------



## UmSumayyah

Stop. Marrying. Down


----------



## Southernbella.

intellectualuva said:


> This sweet looking engineer at APG married an HIV positive likely unemployed convicted felon???



Chile...and there's more where she came from. 

We have GOT to stop lying to our daughters. This ain't it.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

UmSumayyah said:


> Stop. Marrying. Down


Good luck with that.   I got a relative that's been in prison since 1997, he got married two years ago to an anesthesia nurse he met online.  He gets out next year and she can't wait to start a family.  What do you even do with that?


----------



## VeryBecoming

I truly abhor this story.


----------



## meka72

intellectualuva said:


> @Zuleika legit dropped a bombshell on this thread.
> 
> I just dont understand why we are just learning about his criminal history now. I'm surprised it didnt come out before they ran away. And how long ago was the warrant issued for them to be caught in TX for an outstanding warrant???


I wonder if he killed her (allegedly) because she found out about his criminal history and/or HIV status?


----------



## chocolat79

This entire situation from his prior criminal record,  to her marrying him,  to his setting up her murder is so awful.

Black love at any cost,  I guess. Wasn't it Phaedra encouraging women to marry jailbirds? It rarely ends up well. SMH


----------



## lavaflow99

I can't with these people of this world anymore.  
What kind of scum does this?

Level up ladies!


----------



## jeanghrey

Zuleika said:


> Nineteen years earlier, Keith Smith had confessed to robbing the First Union Bank in Timonium on three separate occasions between December 1999 and August 2000.
> 
> Smith's robbery spree came to an end on September 1, 2000, when Baltimore County Police spotted a gold Maxima that fit the description of the wanted vehicle involved in a bank robbery four days before.
> 
> The driver, who was later identified as Keith Smith, led police on a car chase throughout the city when he crashed into a Baltimore City Police cruiser at the intersection of Ashburton Street and Edmondson Avenue in West Baltimore.
> 
> According to Baltimore County Police reports, *Smith* *told* *police* *he* *had* *recently* *found* *out* *that* *he* *was* *HIV* *positive*,  and that he lost his job at FedEx after racking up too many points on his driving record. He told police that he was a single parent and needed money to pay overdue bills.
> 
> *Smith* *was* *found* *guilty* *of the robberies and was sentenced to 12 years in prison.
> *
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wmar2news.com/news/crime-checker/baltimore-city-crime/husband-accused-of-good-samaritans-murder-used-to-rob-banks?_amp=true



Reason number 98799 why I stopped feeling bad about being single....this is an episode of “who the *** did I marry” for real...may that poor woman rip


----------



## free2bme

When I read that the step-daughter and husband were in on the whole plot, my mind went to B. Smith and her situation. Really this the hood version of the same story. B-Smith's is the bougie edition.


----------



## UmSumayyah

STOP.

MARRYING.


DOWN.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/m...lyn-smith-finances-estate-20190306-story.html


_Documents and those knowledgeable about the couple indicate that Keith benefited financially from Jacquelyn during her life — and had sought to be the executor of her estate, which he said was worthless.

Trisvan called his sister, who worked at Aberdeen Proving Ground, “100 percent the breadwinner” in the relationship. He believed Keith, a truck driver, had pushed the lavish lifestyle. The two had married in 2014 in Havre de Grace.

...

Two weeks after Keith allegedly murdered Jacquelyn, the widower asked for the routine legal authority to manage her estate.




According to a petition filed with the Harford County register of wills, he claimed her estate was worthless. Her condo in Aberdeen was underwater by about $26,000. She may have had her own bank account, but he wasn’t sure.

Smith wrote in the document that the loan payoff on the house is $230,600.78. “No value in home,” he wrote.

A Zillow estimate on the house is $225,095.

Deeds recorded with the state indicate that Jacquelyn Smith took ownership of the house from her first husband on Dec. 27, 2006. On the same date she took out a $275,400 mortgage to refinance and payoff the outstanding $244,207 mortgage, state records show.

In the petition, Smith stated that he paid for the $10,000 funeral expenses. He states in the document that he searched for a will but could not find one.

In the petition, Smith wrote that he was qualified to administer the estate because he was the “spouse” and he “paid funeral expense.”




By signing the petition he also confirmed that he was “mentally competent” and “not a disqualified person because of feloniously and intentionally killing, conspiring to kill, or procuring the killing of the decedent.”


..."
_


----------



## intellectualuva

Was there a go fund me for the funeral or did he have the 10K? How is her estate "worthless?" He probably didn't want to go through the trouble of having the deed and mortgage converted to him (as his name wasn't likely on anything considering she owned the house before him) especially because he couldn't afford it. 

I wonder if she did have a second account and he simply didn't want to report it because he was already working his way through those funds writing checks to himself and using the ATM as some folks do. I don't think banks automatically get a notification. 

There is just so much going on.


----------



## LJBFly

free2bme said:


> When I read that the step-daughter and husband were in on the whole plot, my mind went to B. Smith and her situation. Really this the hood version of the same story. B-Smith's is the bougie edition.



My  mind went there too!!!


----------



## intellectualuva

free2bme said:


> When I read that the step-daughter and husband were in on the whole plot, my mind went to B. Smith and her situation. Really this the hood version of the same story. B-Smith's is the bougie edition.



I was talking to a male friend about this and he tried to tell me that the two stories aren't the same at all "because he is taking care of his wife." I didn't even debate it. I simply said ok. I disagree. I think both men have personality traits in common. I don't know much about the different psych diagnosis but I wouldn't be surprised if they scored similarly even though one is obviously more extreme.


----------



## UmSumayyah

intellectualuva said:


> I was talking to a male friend about this and he tried to tell me that the two stories aren't the same at all "because he is taking care of his wife." I didn't even debate it. I simply said ok. I disagree. I think both men have personality traits in common. I don't know much about the different psych diagnosis but I wouldn't be surprised if they scored similarly even though one is obviously more extreme.


B. Smith's husband is just smarter.  The baseline feelings (or lack thereof) are there.


----------



## HappilyLiberal

SoopremeBeing said:


> I always thought it was West Baltimore that was a no-go. I remember my ex saying I couldn’t go there unless he was with me.



No... it's East Baltimore and West Philadelphia!


----------



## BillsBackerz67

intellectualuva said:


> This sweet looking engineer at APG married an HIV positive likely unemployed convicted felon???


I was seriously trying to not come back in here after I delved further. WTF OF ALL F’sssssssss.


----------



## BillsBackerz67

Crackers Phinn said:


> Good luck with that.   I got a relative that's been in prison since 1997, he got married two years ago to an anesthesia nurse he met online.  He gets out next year and she can't wait to start a family.  What do you even do with that?


Omg please. What?!


----------



## Crackers Phinn

BillsBackerz67 said:


> Omg please. What?!


If I had her information I would tell her to run like her life depended on it because I think it does.   I doubt the marriage is legal because I'm pretty sure he's married at least 2 other pen pals since he's been in.    There's another couple in my family made up of a dude who married when he was in prison.  He got out acted a fool and after putting up for it for about 5-6 years she left.   At my mothers funeral, this "in-law"  told me that she went to file for divorce and found out he was still married to somebody else.


----------



## danniegirl

Is that the same Keith Smith ? And was there any mentioned of insurance money...and I wonder what evidence they fount ......


This case is horrible but I still want to know the details


----------



## intellectualuva

HappilyLiberal said:


> No... it's *All of Baltimore* (except NE/Balt County Line, NW/Balt County Line and South/Downtown) and West *and South* Philadelphia!



Fixed that for you.  There is literally a turf war and serial rapist with HIV roaming South Philly right now.


----------



## ThirdEyeBeauty

free2bme said:


> When I read that the step-daughter and husband were in on the whole plot, my mind went to B. Smith and her situation. Really this the hood version of the same story. B-Smith's is the bougie edition.


Wow, tell me more.  I read he has a girlfriend in the house with B. Smith. What else is going on?

ETA: Dan Gasby has ruined his reputation as a strong man in a strong marriage.  Now he has made it to punk status.


----------



## Everything Zen

My face after reading the plot twist. Thanks @Zuleika


----------



## prettyinpurple

UmSumayyah said:


> STOP.
> 
> MARRYING.
> 
> 
> DOWN.
> 
> https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/m...lyn-smith-finances-estate-20190306-story.html
> 
> 
> _Documents and those knowledgeable about the couple indicate that Keith benefited financially from Jacquelyn during her life — and had sought to be the executor of her estate, which he said was worthless.
> 
> Trisvan called his sister, who worked at Aberdeen Proving Ground, “100 percent the breadwinner” in the relationship. He believed Keith, a truck driver, had pushed the lavish lifestyle. The two had married in 2014 in Havre de Grace.
> 
> ...
> 
> Two weeks after Keith allegedly murdered Jacquelyn, the widower asked for the routine legal authority to manage her estate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to a petition filed with the Harford County register of wills, he claimed her estate was worthless. Her condo in Aberdeen was underwater by about $26,000. She may have had her own bank account, but he wasn’t sure.
> 
> Smith wrote in the document that the loan payoff on the house is $230,600.78. “No value in home,” he wrote.
> 
> A Zillow estimate on the house is $225,095.
> 
> Deeds recorded with the state indicate that Jacquelyn Smith took ownership of the house from her first husband on Dec. 27, 2006. On the same date she took out a $275,400 mortgage to refinance and payoff the outstanding $244,207 mortgage, state records show.
> 
> In the petition, Smith stated that he paid for the $10,000 funeral expenses. He states in the document that he searched for a will but could not find one.
> 
> In the petition, Smith wrote that he was qualified to administer the estate because he was the “spouse” and he “paid funeral expense.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By signing the petition he also confirmed that he was “mentally competent” and “not a disqualified person because of feloniously and intentionally killing, conspiring to kill, or procuring the killing of the decedent.”
> 
> _
> 
> 
> _
> 
> ..."
> _


Yes!

I saw another similar story in DC that reminded me of this case.  The woman was a security guard in a homeless shelter and started dating one of the clients, moved him into her home, and had him around her young grandchildren.  It looks like all of that and the murder happened within the last two weeks .  On top of that, turns out he was on the FBI's most wanted list for murdering his gf in NJ.  Then he came down here and murdered his DC girlfriend.  She was about to buy a home and got back to nursing school, yet she dated him.  Sigh.

The guy must be a psychopath.  He killed both girlfriends' pets too.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.25172f365ae5


----------



## Reinventing21

Read the story and YIKES!!!! He is a full blown sociopath.

Yes, agree, we need to teach people how to vet other people.  It has nothing to do with education level.  This is more to do with trust/naivete/social cues/lack of understanding different patholoigies/abuse etc. 

If you don't know what to look for and find yourself in the middle of a situation, it can be very difficult to see what is truly going on (but is sometimes obvious to the outside observer). Some may have had experience, some may find it instinctual, but for many this skill may need to be explicitly taught.




prettyinpurple said:


> Yes!
> 
> I saw another similar story in DC that reminded me of this case.  The woman was a security guard in a homeless shelter and started dating one of the clients, moved him into her home, and had him around her young grandchildren.  It looks like all of that and the murderd happened within the last two weeks .  On top of that, turns out he was on the FBI's most wanted list for murdering his gf in NJ.  Then he came down here and murdered his DC girlfriend.  She was about to buy a home and got back to nursing school, yet she dated him.  Sigh.
> 
> The guy must be a psychopath.  He killed both girlfriends' pets too.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.25172f365ae5


----------



## Southernbella.

prettyinpurple said:


> Yes!
> 
> I saw another similar story in DC that reminded me of this case.  The woman was a security guard in a homeless shelter and started dating one of the clients, moved him into her home, and had him around her young grandchildren.  It looks like all of that and the murderd happened within the last two weeks .  On top of that, turns out he was on the FBI's most wanted list for murdering his gf in NJ.  Then he came down here and murdered his DC girlfriend.  She was about to buy a home and got back to nursing school, yet she dated him.  Sigh.
> 
> The guy must be a psychopath.  He killed both girlfriends' pets too.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.25172f365ae5



I have a PhD in true crime TV and off the top of my head I can think of three more cases:

A well-loved bw doctor killed by her underemployed dh who also bit her during the murder (that's how he was caught)

A prominent attorney in New Orleans, I believe, who was murdered in her office by her underemployed dh 

A different bw doctor who was abused by her underemployed dh. He wanted to kill her but couldn't get to her so he killed a bunch of other people instead.

And then of course you have the self-made entrepreneur last year who's dh set up that fake home invasion.

White men seem to kill their families regardless with no rhyme or reason but there's something about this dynamic in black couples where the breadwinner wife is more at risk. I wish someone would study this and put some science on it because I bet I'm right.

So yeah, bw have to stop marrying down. 

Oh, there's the woman from that haircare company. Her dh was white but she was the breadwinner. Same dynamic. Stop marrying down.


----------



## prettyinpurple

Southernbella. said:


> I have a PhD in true crime TV and off the top of my head I can think of three more cases:
> 
> A well-loved bw doctor killed by her underemployed dh who also bit her during the murder (that's how he was caught)
> 
> A prominent attorney in New Orleans, I believe, who was murdered in her office by her underemployed dh
> 
> A different bw doctor who was abused by her underemployed dh. He wanted to kill her but couldn't get to her so he killed a bunch of other people instead.
> 
> And then of course you have the self-made entrepreneur last year who's dh set up that fake home invasion.
> 
> White men seem to kill their families regardless with no rhyme or reason but there's something about this dynamic in black couples where the breadwinner wife is more at risk. I wish someone would study this and put some science on it because I bet I'm right.
> 
> So yeah, bw have to stop marrying down.
> 
> Oh, there's the woman from that haircare company. Her dh was white but she was the breadwinner. Same dynamic. Stop marrying down.


This is so crazy!  

Tyler Perry's movies about marrying down don't help either :/  Too much working with a brotha.


----------



## intellectualuva

Southernbella. said:


> I have a PhD in true crime TV and off the top of my head I can think of three more cases:
> 
> A well-loved bw doctor killed by her underemployed dh who also bit her during the murder (that's how he was caught)
> 
> A prominent attorney in New Orleans, I believe, who was murdered in her office by her underemployed dh
> 
> A different bw doctor who was abused by her underemployed dh. He wanted to kill her but couldn't get to her so he killed a bunch of other people instead.
> 
> And then of course you have the self-made entrepreneur last year who's dh set up that fake home invasion.
> 
> White men seem to kill their families regardless with no rhyme or reason but there's something about this dynamic in black couples where the breadwinner wife is more at risk. I wish someone would study this and put some science on it because I bet I'm right.
> 
> So yeah, bw have to stop marrying down.
> 
> Oh, there's the woman from that haircare company. Her dh was white but she was the breadwinner. Same dynamic. Stop marrying down.


----------



## MizAvalon

I heard this story when it happened but I had no idea about the twist.

I wish I didn't know.


----------



## Shula

Southernbella. said:


> White men seem to kill their families regardless with no rhyme or reason but there's something about this dynamic in black couples where the breadwinner wife is more at risk. I wish someone would study this and put some science on it because I bet I'm right.



I agree. I have a relative who got beat black and blue every payday because it enraged him that she made more money. I don't understand where the response is to bite the hand that feeds you rather than getting a better job. He had nothing on his record to prevent him from leveling up.


----------



## intellectualuva

Shula said:


> I agree. I have a relative who got beat black and blue every payday because it enraged him that she made more money. I don't understand where the response is to bite the hand that feeds you *rather than getting a better job*. He had nothing on his record to prevent him from leveling up.



Or a side hustle. 

I was talking to someone about this. How guys on the other site seem offended that black women don't want low paid black men (though I am not inclined to believe it given what I've seen from black women accepting everything if he's black).  It doesn't seem to occur to them to try to earn more money. The conversations circle around any and everything except that.


----------



## UmSumayyah

There was also the bw exec at some network. She was killed by her lower level husband and I think he killed their daughter too. He wasn't a criminal, just made way way less.


----------



## naturalgyrl5199

Update: Convicted of Murder!









						Keith Smith Convicted Of First-Degree Murder In Wife's Killing
					

A Maryland man suspected of killing his wife three years ago and pinning her murder on a panhandler was convicted Thursday of first-degree murder.




					baltimore.cbslocal.com


----------



## Crackers Phinn

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Update: Convicted of Murder!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keith Smith Convicted Of First-Degree Murder In Wife's Killing
> 
> 
> A Maryland man suspected of killing his wife three years ago and pinning her murder on a panhandler was convicted Thursday of first-degree murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> baltimore.cbslocal.com


Good.  With his trifling


----------



## Keen

This is sad. Two black women (one in Tampa, one in Miami) were killed by their boyfriends this week.


----------



## Crackers Phinn

Keen said:


> This is sad. Two black women (one in Tampa, one in Miami) were killed by their boyfriends this week.


The YTD black femicide numbers are disgusting.


----------

