# There are Two Stories that Have Me Wondering....



## Nice & Wavy (Dec 1, 2011)

What in the world...?


*Interracial Couple Banned from Church*
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...hurch_n_1121582.html?ref=religion&ir=Religion


*Joel Olsteen's Reality Show*
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/30/joel-osteen-reality-show_n_1120522.html?ref=religion


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 1, 2011)

Nice&Wavy

I lovvvvee your hair 
(*note to self, Thou shall not covet) 

ok back to the thread...

So the church thing, how they gone say its not in the "spirit" of the community..The only spirit they need to be concerned about is the Holy Spirit. Thats a hot mess.I would defintely find another church! ASAP


And I have nothing to say about Joel Osteen..I may watch out of boredom or because Im curious


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## Laela (Dec 1, 2011)

It is indeed the 'spirit' of the community that this FREEWILL Baptist Church is allowing to rule and reign in their midst. Certainly not the Spirit of God. SMH




 


> *Joel Olsteen's Reality Show*
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/30/joel-osteen-reality-show_n_1120522.html?ref=religion


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## Guitarhero (Dec 1, 2011)

*1 John 4:20

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.*


Little bitty ignorant Kentucky pastors, included.  Besides that, we are all from two earthly parents of the same blood, Adam and Eve.  Race is a bogus social construct.


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## lilanie (Dec 1, 2011)

Appalling, yes.  Shocking, not in the least bit...  At least they are bold enough to say it aloud ~ whereas west of the Mason Dixon, something like this would be alot more obtuse...


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## Shimmie (Dec 1, 2011)

Nice & Wavy said:


> What in the world...?
> 
> 
> *Interracial Couple Banned from Church*
> ...



The Church vote was 9-6   

I'm sorry, but if this is what rules their Church, somebody must be an awfully big bully....   

The prejudice is indeed wrong, however God just did them a favour.  Jesus said if you go into a town and they don't accept you, wipe the dust off your feet and move on to the next. 

Okay... now I'm off to read up on Pastor Joel     See who he's afraid of now.


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## Shimmie (Dec 1, 2011)

I gonna start a reality show all my own...called 'Unafraid to say Jesus'.


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## Laela (Dec 1, 2011)

That's it...it's a Bully.... 




Shimmie said:


> The Church vote was 9-6
> 
> I'm sorry, but if this is what rules their Church, *somebody must be an awfully big bully....   *
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Dec 1, 2011)

Laela said:


> That's it...it's a Bully....



I'm just sayin'... this is ridiculous.   I wouldn't want to sit in their "pew-pew" anyway.


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## Laela (Dec 1, 2011)

^^  @ pew-pew...

but seriously..that's such a sad thing to read. I remember my mom was visiting a multicultural church in Texas, and the pastor had them do an exercise, asking each person to turn around to the person behind them and say something to them along the lines of "I'm no better than you"....well, she was sitting behind a white woman and when ole gurl turned around... her face was  and she could barely mumble to my mom what the pastor instructed her to say... My mom still laughs at that. What can you do but laugh..God bless them all....


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 1, 2011)

OUCH! lol 







Shimmie said:


> Okay... now I'm off to read up on Pastor Joel  See who he's afraid of now.


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## Shimmie (Dec 1, 2011)

Laela said:


> ^^  @ pew-pew...
> 
> but seriously..that's such a sad thing to read. I remember my mom was visiting a multicultural church in Texas, and the pastor had them do an exercise, asking each person to turn around to the person behind them and say something to them along the lines of "I'm no better than you"....well, she was sitting behind a white woman and when ole gurl turned around... her face was  and she could barely mumble to my mom what the pastor instructed her to say... My mom still laughs at that. What can you do but laugh..God bless them all....



It is sad, very sad.    They may as well get used to 'us' Black Christians, because Heaven is 'FULL of Us'... quite full.   As a matter of fact when they see Peter at the 'Gate', he's Black too.   

So what they gonna do, turn around and choose hell?


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## Nice & Wavy (Dec 1, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> @Nice&Wavy
> 
> I lovvvvee your hair
> (*note to self, Thou shall not covet)
> ...


Thank you, sis   I would find another church as well...a hot mess indeed.



Laela said:


> It is indeed the 'spirit' of the community that this FREEWILL Baptist Church is allowing to rule and reign in their midst. Certainly not the Spirit of God. SMH


Not the "Spirit of God" is so right....I felt sad posting that nonsense



Guitarhero said:


> *1 John 4:20
> 
> If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.*
> 
> ...


Pastors who behave this way are only pastors in their own right....self-titled bigots who makes decisions base upon selfish ambitions...sickening.  Not sent from God to do the work of the ministry at all.



lilanie said:


> Appalling, yes.  Shocking, not in the least bit...  At least they are bold enough to say it aloud ~ whereas west of the Mason Dixon, something like this would be alot more obtuse...


That boldness reveals that they are under a false rule that comes from satan and does not have the Spirit of the King of kings and Lord of lords.



Shimmie said:


> The Church vote was 9-6
> 
> I'm sorry, but if this is what rules their Church, somebody must be an awfully big bully....
> 
> ...


Bully is right....this is a hot mess.

I'm sure Jesus is saying "they don't want you there.....and they don't want me there either."



Shimmie said:


> I gonna start a reality show all my own...called 'Unafraid to say Jesus'.


...it may sound like a reality show that's doing a good thing, but as a pastor....WHAT ARE YOU DOING?  Now, that's a hot mess too



Laela said:


> That's it...it's a Bully....


, yeah, Laela!



Shimmie said:


> I'm just sayin'... this is ridiculous.   I wouldn't want to sit in their "pew-pew" anyway.


...pepe la pew-pew!



Laela said:


> ^^  @ pew-pew...
> 
> but seriously..that's such a sad thing to read. I remember my mom was visiting a multicultural church in Texas, and the pastor had them do an exercise, asking each person to turn around to the person behind them and say something to them along the lines of "I'm no better than you"....well, she was sitting behind a white woman and when ole gurl turned around... her face was  and she could barely mumble to my mom what the pastor instructed her to say... My mom still laughs at that. What can you do but laugh..God bless them all....


Racism is something else...people are more blatant with it now since Obama became president, than I've seen in a long time...you are right, we have to laugh because their minds are so small.



Alicialynn86 said:


> OUCH! lol


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## Shimmie (Dec 1, 2011)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thank you, sis   I would find another church as well...a hot mess indeed.
> 
> Not the "Spirit of God" is so right....I felt sad posting that nonsense
> 
> ...



 @ "Pepe" ...


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## Nice & Wavy (Dec 1, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> @ "Pepe" ...


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 1, 2011)

I'm smh at both  links


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## MonPetite (Dec 1, 2011)

....................


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## Laela (Dec 1, 2011)

^^


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## Nice & Wavy (Dec 1, 2011)

LittleGoldenLamb said:


> *Googles "sucking teeth".*
> 
> *Finds YouTube tutorial for "sucking teeth".*
> 
> ...


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## lilanie (Dec 1, 2011)

Wow, what in the wide world of sports is going on with Joel???? (skittish about uttering Pastor)....

That's some Spirtual malpractice right thurr...


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## Laela (Dec 2, 2011)

^^ lol lilanie..that's some funny stuff...


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## Shimmie (Dec 2, 2011)

lilanie said:


> Wow, what in the wide world of sports is going on with Joel???? (skittish about uttering Pastor)....
> 
> That's some Spirtual malpractice right thurr...



  @ WWOS  (Wide World of Sports)... That's so unique and a cute way of saying ...


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## MonPetite (Dec 2, 2011)

....................


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## lilanie (Dec 4, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> @ WWOS  (Wide World of Sports)... That's so unique and a cute way of saying ...



I cannot take credit for it though... That is straight from *Blazing Saddles.*


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## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm not shocked about the racism in that church.  Nothing new there.  It just got put on blast. 

As for Joel Osteen I'm withholding disparaging comments until I actually see the show. But in the days where reality shows are about unwed couples sexing and having babies and drinking and partying, I think his show would be refreshing.  

I have mixed feelings about Joel. I think he is repetitive but I'm not ready to call him a fraud or even suggest it. I enjoy some of his messages and think they are useful.  Everyone doesn't always want to hear about fire and damnation all the time. I think he paints the picture of a loving God and not a God so remote and removed.  Having said that, I don't believe in prosperity doctrine but he's definitely not the worst I've seen about the prosperity doctrine. And people can say what they want about his finances, but his finances have not yet been revealed to be questionable. Unlike some others like Creflo and Eddie Long and Paula White.


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## Shimmie (Dec 5, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I'm not shocked about the racism in that church.  Nothing new there.  It just got put on blast.
> 
> As for Joel Osteen I'm withholding disparaging comments until I actually see the show. But in the days where reality shows are about unwed couples sexing and having babies and drinking and partying, I think his show would be refreshing.
> 
> ...



nathansgirl1908, the bolded... this is exactly what he's doing and it makes sense.  I can understand him not wanting to present Christians in a negative light and God who loves all.   

I wish there was a way to do so without minimizing the Truth when it comes to controversial subjects.  

This is a good post   which has me thinking and taking the time to look into what's really going on with Joel.   

Thanks


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## Goombay_Summer (Dec 5, 2011)

My responds to the first post







Benny Hinn because I loved the verbal tongue-lashing he gave Joel when he could not stand on what the Word has to say about salvation, team Benny (John 14:6).


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## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 5, 2011)

hanna_light said:


> My responds to the first post
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Benny Hinn was revealed to be a fraud. He can lash at Joel all he wants but potentially being a false prophet is no better.


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## Sharpened (Dec 6, 2011)

Racism

*blows raspberries*

I don’t care anymore about the topic; it has no power over me unless I give it. Just another tool for refinement. If people choose to damage their souls and stifle their spirits like that, they have to answer to Him and only He can fix their hearts.

Ugh! I cannot wait until this phony man and others like him are no longer household names. If you have to get inspired to see God a certain way or feel good about your life, you just insulted the Holy Spirit. Ear-tickling at its most subtle takes advantage of the trials of life to con people out of their money and turn over their souls to men. Does everyone forget we have to be purged by His Fire (Isaiah 4:4, Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16) in order to get closer to Him, to get filled up by Him? What do the words, “My Kingdom is not of this world,” do people not get?

Judgment is here and He is shining His Light in the dark and hidden places to expose these people for who they are. He will have a pure Bride, a healthy Body for His Son; do not get caught in His way.


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## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 6, 2011)

Nymphe said:


> Racism
> 
> *blows raspberries*
> 
> I don’t care anymore about the topic; it has no power over me unless I give it. Just another tool for refinement. If people choose to damage their souls and stifle their spirits like that, they have to answer to Him and only He can fix their hearts.



I think I'm kind of at this point myself. Granted I still get somewhat annoyed when I deal with racism in my career, but you're right.  We shouldnt give it power anymore. Just place it on the altar.


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## Goombay_Summer (Dec 6, 2011)

nathansgirl1908I know that Benny Hinn is recently divorced but he humbled himself, asked forgiveness of his church members as well as his followers, and admitted that he was at fault for the demise of his marriage because he had put his family life on the backburner as he travelled the globe preaching the gospel. Other than the following example, I do not know how it was proven that he is/was a charlatan could you please expound on what you said in reference to him.


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## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 6, 2011)

hanna_light said:


> nathansgirl1908I know that Benny Hinn is recently divorced but he humbled himself, asked forgiveness of his church members as well as his followers, and admitted that he was at fault for the demise of his marriage because he had put his family life on the backburner as he travelled the globe preaching the gospel. Other than the following example, I do not know how it was proven that he is/was a charlatan could you please expound on what you said in reference to him.



Um no. I'm not talking about divorce. That wouldn't make him a fraud. I'm talking about the healings that were being showed on his programming. There was an undercover study of the healings which revealed that it was a scam.  And before you try to allege that it's an attack of the devil to make it seem like God's power isn't real, it was obvious that something fishy was going on. Dateline did one undercover story about him.And there were issues concerning an orphanage he was supposed to build.


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## Goombay_Summer (Dec 6, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 How dare you spread such false accusation because I am an avid supporter for televangelist   it me sadness me each time that these men  start of preaching the unadulterated word and doing good works in His name but somewhere along the line it changes. IDK if it is a combination of the fame or the riches reaped from their ministries  that makes them do unspeakable things to keep the grave train going because they have become accustomed to a certain lifestyle.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 6, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I'm talking about the healings that were being showed on his programming. There was an undercover study of the healings which revealed that it was a scam.



Add to that the pretentious display of supposed ability to manipulate the H-ly Spirit at human will...as in slaying folks with his white jacket, etc.  T'would be the dangerous side of hypnotism.  

As for blowing off racism as a non-issue...um, there's such a thing as "evil speech" and G-d forbids it.  Evil racist thoughts lead to evil racist tongue that leads to evil racist behavior against fellow man.  It's forbidden to the point that G-d says that, if we do such (insert racist behavior here), we will not see G-d.  It's a warning.


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## Laela (Dec 6, 2011)

Injustice in all forms in this world is bad enough, but when it rears its ugly head among Christians, it's really something to pray about, ITA. I understand  where your heart is, even though you go straight for the jugglar.   I only hope that false prophets, preachers who sell miracles and blessings, and people who are racist repent and turn away from such evil doing. They have a bigger authority to answer to than the courts of the land and the punishment is most certainly more sever. There is no 'do over' opportunities at the gates of hell. God bless~





nathansgirl1908 said:


> Um no. I'm not talking about divorce. That wouldn't make him a fraud. I'm talking about the healings that were being showed on his programming. There was an undercover study of the healings which revealed that it was a scam.  And before you try to allege that it's an attack of the devil to make it seem like God's power isn't real, it was obvious that something fishy was going on. Dateline did one undercover story about him.And there were issues concerning an orphanage he was supposed to build.


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## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 6, 2011)

hanna_light said:


> nathansgirl1908 How dare you spread such false accusation because I am an avid supporter for televangelist   it me sadness me each time that these men  start of preaching the unadulterated word and doing good works in His name but somewhere along the line it changes. IDK if it is a combination of the fame or the riches reaped from their ministries  that makes them do unspeakable things to keep the grave train going because they have become accustomed to a certain lifestyle.



I think it IS a combo of all that you mentioned.  And of course unbelievers jump on that as  their "evidence" that Christianity is somehow fraudulent.  I'm one of those people who believes that a minister does not have to live in poverty in order to be "real" but it DOES seem like so many of them can't handle the wealth they receive without it going haywire somehow.


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## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 6, 2011)

Laela said:


> I understand  where your heart is, even though you go straight for the jugglar.   I


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## Shimmie (Dec 6, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I think it IS a combo of all that you mentioned.  And of course unbelievers jump on that as  their "evidence" that Christianity is somehow fraudulent.  I'm one of those people who believes that a minister does not have to live in poverty in order to be "real" *but it DOES seem like so many of them can't handle the wealth they receive without it going haywire somehow.*



They're not used to having 'riches' and it just leads them astray, especially with the flesh and the ego.


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## Sharpened (Dec 6, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> As for blowing off racism as a non-issue...um, there's such a thing as "evil speech" and G-d forbids it.  Evil racist thoughts lead to evil racist tongue that leads to evil racist behavior against fellow man.  It's forbidden to the point that G-d says that, if we do such (insert racist behavior here), we will not see G-d.  It's a warning.


 As I said, _“__If people choose to damage their souls and cripple their spirit like that, they have to answer to Him and only He can fix their hearts.”_ It is not my problem; I have no control over people. I turn any issue over to Him and keep it moving; He rewards me when I do that. That is the way He rolls. *shrug*

  Evil is a tool for refinement and _different from sin_; do not combine the two. Curses are evil, are they not? And yet, He uses them and allows them to occur. Let us look back at the incident concerning the Syrophoenician woman:



> *Mark 7:25-30* (and *Matthew 15:21-28*) For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of Him, and came and fell at His feet. The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she sought Him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
> 
> But Jesus said to her, “Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to the dogs.”


  Oh, snap! He called her a dog, a common insult the Jews had for Gentiles. Don’t believe me; look it up.



> And she answered and said to Him, “Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.”


  Do you see what happened? She humbled herself before Him and still turned the issue over to Him. Do we have that kind of strength? Only by the Holy Spirit we do.



> And He said to her, “For this saying go your way; the devil is gone out of your daughter.”
> 
> And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid on the bed.


  There is no mistake why this passage exist. He wants us to understand the fires of refinement will come in many different forms, including racism. We have to trust Him to handle it when we pray it over to Him. If I am called to meet any dilemma head-on, His Guide within me will direct my steps (Exodus 4:12, Matthew 10:19, Mark 13:11, Luke 12:11-12, Luke 21:15).


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## Guitarhero (Dec 6, 2011)

Gosh, I never knew any of that.  I think I'll convert...just kidding.

You're partly talking about self-esteem issues. I'm talking about evil speech lol and I don't confuse the two.  I  also comprehend refinement.  The "dog" issue, yes, I have been knowing about it.  There are worse words for goyim...but I won't say them here.  Don't ask me how I know...let's just say it's in the family and it falls under "evil speech."  I do get your point but will expand mine.  We are part of a community.  It's not enough to just know G-d yourself.  We are all in this together, as from the beginning of time.  So, to me, it's not enough to just know a truth inside of myself, I'm responsible for spreading it to my brother and this is what repairing the world is all about.


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## Sharpened (Dec 6, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> Gosh, I never knew any of that.  I think I'll convert...just kidding.
> 
> You're partly talking about self-esteem issues. I'm talking about evil speech lol and I don't confuse the two.  I  also comprehend refinement.  The "dog" issue, yes, I have been knowing about it.  There are worse words for goyim...but I won't say them here.  Don't ask me how I know...let's just say it's in the family and it falls under "evil speech."  I do get your point but will expand mine.  We are part of a community.  It's not enough to just know G-d yourself.  We are all in this together, as from the beginning of time.  So, to me, it's not enough to just know a truth inside of myself, I'm responsible for spreading it to my brother and this is what repairing the world is all about.


I do not esteem myself in any way, good or bad; self-esteem is a man-centered concept. My life is for His use, nothing more.

Outside of children, who does not know what racism is and how it affects people? We are to spread is the Evangel through His authority and teach (and correct) the brethren when He prompts us to. That's it.

We are not to repair the world; that is His domain. We are His tools, not by our own intentions or strength, but His. Even this ancient prayer alludes to it:

*Aleinu*

  It is our duty to praise the Master of all, 
  to acclaim the greatness of the One 
  who forms all creation. 

  For God did not make us 
like the nations of other lands, 
  and did not make us the same as other 
families of the Earth. 

  God did not place us 
  in the same situations as others, 
  and our destiny is not the same 
as anyone else's. 


  And we bend our knees, and bow down, 
  and give thanks, before the Ruler, 
the Ruler of Rulers, the Holy One, Blessed is God. 

The One who spread out the heavens, 
  and made the foundations of the Earth, 
and whose precious dwelling is in the heavens above, 
  and whose powerful Presence is in the highest heights. 

  Adonai is our God. 
  There is none else. 


  Our God is truth, and nothing else compares. 
  As it is written in Your Torah: 
  "And you shall know today, and take to heart, 
  that Adonai is the only God, 
  in the heavens above and on Earth below. 
There is no other." 


*Therefore we put our hope in You, Adonai our God, 
to soon see the glory of Your strength, *
*to remove all idols from the Earth, 
and to completely cut off all false gods; *
*to repair the world, Your holy empire. *

  And for all living flesh to call Your name, 
  and for all the wicked of the Earth to turn to You. 

  May all the world's inhabitants recognize and know that 
  to You every knee must bend and every tongue must swear loyalty. 

  Before You, Adonai, our God, 
may all bow down, 
  and give honor to Your precious name, 
  and may all take upon themselves the yoke of Your rule. 

  And may You reign over them soon 
and forever and always. 

  Because all rule is Yours alone, 
  and You will rule 
in honor forever and ever. 

As it is written in Your Torah: 
"Adonai will reign forever and ever." 

And it is said: "Adonai will be Ruler 
  over the whole Earth, and on that day, 
God will be One, 
  and God's name will be One.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 6, 2011)

So self-esteem is a pagan concept now?  Do you not realize that the Aleinu goes hand-in-hand with tikkun olam?  You highlighted it right there in blue.  That's what it actually means.  Not sure why you posted it...it's in my prayer book and I haven't forgotten.  I hope we're not playing a game of "I'm more kosher than you...cuz I'm as tzaddeket as it's going to be for right now ."    I get your point but I also strive to be of earthly good as well.  I can't be so holy that I see everything like a hermit and ain't living here in an eruv all cloistered off.  Honestly, that is not my calling but for your own specific calling, more power to ya!    I comprehend you.

Edit:  Come to think about it, why are you quoting Aleinu?  If you actually only believe in the protestant bible...um....  I thought you only read from it and none other.  And as for the blue...do you realize that, to a Jew,  Jesus is a false idol?  I'm not saying that...I'm just saying.  What you up to?


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## Sharpened (Dec 6, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> So self-esteem is a pagan concept now?



 Nope, started in the garden:



> *Genesis 3:6-7* When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.





> Do you not realize that the Aleinu goes hand-in-hand with tikkun olam?   You highlighted it right there in blue.  That's what it actually means.   Not sure why you posted it...it's in my prayer book and I haven't  forgotten.  I hope we're not playing a game of "I'm more kosher than  you...cuz I'm as tzaddeket as it's going to be for right now ."     I get your point but I also strive to be of earthly good as well.  I  can't be so holy that I see everything like a hermit and ain't living  here in an eruv all cloistered off.  Honestly, that is not my calling  but for your own specific calling, more power to ya!    I comprehend you.
> 
> Edit:  Come to think about it, why are you quoting Aleinu?  If you actually only believe in the protestant bible...um....   I thought you only read from it and none other.  And as for the  blue...do you realize that, to a Jew,  Jesus is a false idol?  I'm not  saying that...I'm just saying.  What you up to?



No, what it does show that you do not know Scripture for you are blinded by tradition, the very thing Jesus fought against.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 7, 2011)

^^^That's what you were up to, attempting to understand my faith by proclaiming I don't know scripture.  What else could  I have expected? You don't fully comprehend the very prayer you posted, that's all I'm saying, but thank you very much for trying to be my H-ly Spirit, as well as my priest and rabbi.  But, um, no thanks.  Seriously.  TOPIC...please.  I understood your point without managing to insult your salvation.


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## lilanie (Dec 7, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I have mixed feelings about Joel. I think he is repetitive but I'm not ready to call him a fraud or even suggest it. I enjoy some of his messages and think they are useful.  Everyone doesn't always want to hear about fire and damnation all the time. I think he paints the picture of a loving God and not a God so remote and removed.  Having said that, I don't believe in prosperity doctrine but he's definitely not the worst I've seen about the prosperity doctrine. And people can say what they want about his finances, but his finances have not yet been revealed to be questionable. Unlike some others like Creflo and Eddie Long and Paula White.



Same here... He *Joel* has opened me up to ridding myself of the *big spook in the sky* thought process I previously had.


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## Sharpened (Dec 7, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> ^^^That's what you were up to, attempting to understand my faith by proclaiming I don't know scripture.  What did I expect? You don't comprehend the very prayer you posted, that's all I'm saying.  You might wish to stick with protestant theology and leave Jewish theology alone cuz you don't give it justice.  So, Jesus is fighting against me, huh?  He didn't have tradition either?  Seems you could learn a little something else about Jesus and the culture He came from as well as my Church before you go spouting off this assumption.  Word of advice, please stop worrying about my soul and worry about your own.  No, seriously...work for your own salvation...however that is for YOU.  You cannot step into Jesus' place in my life.


My comprehension is fine and I have no agenda but truth. What you like to accuse others of doing you do yourself, as you have done trying to understand and criticize me. One day, you will understand all I have posted in this forum.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 7, 2011)

I have never implied that you or another is not "saved" in this forum.  I don't think racism is something to be ignored.  That's an opinion, not a criticism of your ability to dust it off your shoulders. I'm a tradition lover til the grave.  BAH!

Proverbial glass wall comes slamming down...I walk away laughing hysterically!  Peace!


----------



## Sharpened (Dec 7, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> I have never implied that you or another is not "saved" in this forum.  I don't think racism is something to be ignored.  That's an opinion, not a criticism of your ability to dust it off your shoulders. I'm a tradition lover til the grave.  BAH!
> 
> Proverbial glass wall comes slamming down...I walk away laughing hysterically!  Peace!


You are extrapolating things I never implied, assumed things about me I never said, and insulted me after I demonstrated you misrepresented that prayer. It is not about ignoring racism, but refusing to let it have power in one's life. I turn all issues over to Him; He rewards me, as I said before. What is wrong with that? Do you want to be continuously bound to the troubles of the world or watch the Father work on them around you?


----------



## lilanie (Dec 8, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> Unlike some others like Creflo and Eddie Long and Paula White.


 
@nathansgirl1908 - just out of curiousity, do you ever find Creflo's messages useful? (please take this callout/question in the vein intended - as I'm discovering I agree with you more than disagree)

When Creflo gets animated and breaks down how not to live your life based off of emotions, urges us to seek the Word, etc. He has quite a few sermons in 2010 to that effect that I have replayed over and over, then turned to my Bible and absorbed/received the Word. I find those to really really help me to put things back into perspective ~ although I do agree his financials may not reflect what expectations I have for him.

What are your thoughts?


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Dec 8, 2011)

Im not trying to endorse Creflo dollar...because not all things I agree with,but the "old" Creflo dollar use to preach..He use to preach against sin and preach about righteousness..Same for Paula..she was a adovcate preacher about being formed in to the image of Christ....but I guess things change.....


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## Guitarhero (Dec 8, 2011)

Nymphe said:


> You are extrapolating things I never implied, assumed things about me I never said, and insulted me after I demonstrated you misrepresented that prayer. It is not about ignoring racism, but refusing to let it have power in one's life. I turn all issues over to Him; He rewards me, as I said before. What is wrong with that? Do you want to be continuously bound to the troubles of the world or watch the Father work on them around you?



Honestly, Nymphe, I'm actually intrigued by people who can brush most of racism off and see the struggle in a different light.  That's not my experience due to circumstances.  Consider yours a great blessing.

About the rest, sigh....you must realize...I mean, honestly.    Unless you feel you have the right to.  Insulting...differing opinions are not insult but  trying to say (ad nauseum as I've experienced from you, per se) that someone is not saved because they do not see things exactly how you see them, that they are stuck on non-salvific tradition as you imply, about seeking the H-ly Spirit so that another thinks along your lines?    Well, I most definitely comprehend the Aleinu.  See, the thing about that prayer and the religion it comes from, there is no single, simple answer to scripture....there are many, many layers of meaning and application.  So throwing it at me and highlighting a portion of it without prior understanding about "repairing the world" and man's duty in it (we are G-d's hands etc.)...*SIGHHHHHHH*.  

Please take this the right way.  You know what *YO*U need in your spiritual walk but you have no clue about mine.   Concern yourself with YOUR walk with Christ.  Please, just leave it at that.  I'll also ask you to stop this ridiculous attack on tradition and  denominations and how they worship the same G-d you do not to your liking.  It's not warranted.  There are things about protestantism that is irritating to me yet, I don't tell those people they are wrong.  I might question, but I do not tell them they don't know Jesus.  And you do not know who is "saved" and who is not.  And certainly, you are not hearing from the H-ly Spirit regarding your message to me.  It's emanating from *YOU*...not  HaShem...since you wanna school me on how to pray.  You simply do not know what it is that I most absolutely do know about scripture.  Many layers ... Shalom lekha.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 8, 2011)

I know that you directed this question to someone else but, aactually I do find some things that he says very useful..



lilanie said:


> @- just out of curiousity, do you ever find Creflo's messages useful? (please take this callout/question in the vein intended - as I'm discovering I agree with you more than disagree)
> 
> When Creflo gets animated and breaks down how not to live your life based off of emotions, urges us to seek the Word, etc. He has quite a few sermons in 2010 to that effect that I have replayed over and over, then turned to my Bible and absorbed/received the Word. I find those to really really help me to put things back into perspective ~ although I do agree his financials may not reflect what expectations I have for him.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


----------



## gn1g (Dec 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> It is sad, very sad. They may as well get used to 'us' Black Christians, because Heaven is 'FULL of Us'... quite full. As a matter of fact when *they see Peter at the 'Gate', he's Black too*.
> 
> So what they gonna do, turn around and choose hell?


 
and what about "Simeon who was called a Niger" Acts 13:1


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 8, 2011)

as for Paula it's too much about first fruits and sowing seed I think that body needs to know much more than that today...



Alicialynn86 said:


> Im not trying to endorse Creflo dollar...because not all things I agree with,but the "old" Creflo dollar use to preach..He use to preach against sin and preach about righteousness..Same for Paula..she was a adovcate preacher about being formed in to the image of Christ....but I guess things change.....


----------



## Laela (Dec 8, 2011)

Not trying to defend the man, but it's 2011, Creflo Dollar STILL preaches against sin and on righteousness. I do know not everyone can listen to him preach, but he's gifted to minister to who will receive him. 




Alicialynn86 said:


> Im not trying to endorse Creflo dollar...because not all things I agree with,but the "old" Creflo dollar use to preach..He *use to *?preach against sin and preach about righteousness..Same for Paula..she was a adovcate preacher about being formed in to the image of Christ....but I guess things change.....


----------



## lilanie (Dec 8, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Im not trying to endorse Creflo dollar...because not all things I agree with,but the "old" Creflo dollar use to preach..He use to preach against sin and preach about righteousness..Same for Paula..she was a adovcate preacher about being formed in to the image of Christ....but I guess things change.....



That's the Creflo, i "listen to" as well.  The "old" Paula for me as well....


----------



## lilanie (Dec 8, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> I know that you directed this question to someone else but, aactually I do find some things that he says very useful..



Iwanthealthyhair67 - this is good - I actually want everyone to pipe in; I think that helps me discern what is beneficial and what is fluff...

Consensus is good too!


----------



## lilanie (Dec 8, 2011)

Laela said:


> Not trying to defend the man, but it's 2011, Creflo Dollar STILL preaches against sin and on righteousness. I do know not everyone can listen to him preach, but he's gifted to minister to who will receive him.



He had a message this morning that was very timely ~ as my daughter and I were a fussin' & verbally tusslin'...

I take what I need from him, you know? Like Joyce, when she discusses forgiveness and modesty ~ my ears perk up...


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 8, 2011)

gn1g said:


> and what about "Simeon who was called a Niger" Acts 13:1



   ---


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 8, 2011)

lilanie said:


> @nathansgirl1908 - just out of curiousity, do you ever find Creflo's messages useful? (please take this callout/question in the vein intended - as I'm discovering I agree with you more than disagree)
> 
> When Creflo gets animated and breaks down how not to live your life based off of emotions, urges us to seek the Word, etc. He has quite a few sermons in 2010 to that effect that I have replayed over and over, then turned to my Bible and absorbed/received the Word. I find those to really really help me to put things back into perspective ~ although I do agree his financials may not reflect what expectations I have for him.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


I'm glad you asked this question because my earlier response about Creflo could use clarification. I think Creflo has a gift.  I also think he skirts the line between that gift and falling into the traps of riches that many others have fallen into.  I find many things that he says to be useful.  I enjoy listning to him although I'm sometimes wary of how he approaches prosperity issues.  But despite the usefulness of his sermons and lectures, I don't like some of the issues that have been revealed concerning his finances. I especially was bothered by the fact that he helped Evander Holyfield hide substantial assets during his divorce.


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

Thats why I stated that I dont agree with all he says..He preaches about prosperity alot..I once heard him say...we gotta check ourselves if we broke, or sick...something must be wrong...????? 


I dont like when people try to make it seem like you not blessed if you having a illness or financial problems..We have to be proven and tried.Sometimes God just want some glory..Job went through and lost everything and the bible says he was a perfect man. He makes it seems like if you dont have money.....then you must not be connected to God enough.. These are the messages I've heard..but he does say some good stuff.




Laela said:


> Not trying to defend the man, but it's 2011, Creflo Dollar STILL preaches against sin and on righteousness. I do know not everyone can listen to him preach, but he's gifted to minister to who will receive him.


----------



## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

Well I just hope and pray this is all first-hand knowledge to you...




nathansgirl1908 said:


> I But despite the usefulness of his sermons and lectures, I don't like some of the issues that have been revealed concerning his finances. I especially was bothered by the fact that he helped Evander Holyfield hide substantial assets during his divorce.


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 9, 2011)

Laela said:


> Well I just hope and pray this is all first-hand knowledge to you...



I have no reason to lie and don't appreciate or accept any insinuations to that effect.  Everyone here has the same opportunities to do their own research on things brought to light.  If you choose not to educate yourself,  that's on you. But please don't try to disparage others who do and who address it.


----------



## lilanie (Dec 9, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I'm glad you asked this question because my earlier response about Creflo could use clarification. I think Creflo has a gift.  I also think he skirts the line between that gift and falling into the traps of riches that many others have fallen into.  I find many things that he says to be useful.  I enjoy listning to him although I'm sometimes wary of how he approaches prosperity issues.  But despite the usefulness of his sermons and lectures, I don't like some of the issues that have been revealed concerning his finances. I especially was bothered by the fact that he helped Evander Holyfield hide substantial assets during his divorce.



As *I* learn more about the definition of *Prosperity Gospel* ~ I start to tune him out, and the financials information disturbs me as well... I forgot the website, but there's one where they break down who does what with how much - an accountability website and I dont think he is on there (haven't looked in years)

But yeah, he had a sermon (paraphrasing) where he said "if your emotions make you walk out on a job when you have six kids and a mortgage, you need to fix yourself" - very humbling and put me back in check


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

@nathansgirl1908 


I dont think she was implying that you are lying. She is just implying to be sure that whatever source you got it from, make sure they was correct with their information. I know we read articles and such on the internet, but you never know whats true. it wasnt a insult, she was just admonishing you to be sure and careful..


----------



## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 9, 2011)

if I'm always broke it could mean miss-managements of funds or I could be reaping some bad seeds I sowed before I got saved like running up a few credit card bills, sure the old things passed away and I was made new but my loan wasn't made new it's still old and needs to be repaid...

If I'm sick it could mean that I haven't been taking care of myself the way I should...

sometimes 'testings' come in the form of lack, to get me to be content in whatever state I'm in and to trust God...





Alicialynn86 said:


> Thats why I stated that I dont agree with all he says..He preaches about prosperity alot..*I once heard him say...we gotta check ourselves if we broke, or sick...something must be wrong..*.?????
> 
> 
> QUOTE]


----------



## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

True, but both sides needs to be brought out. Sometimes things just happen to righteous people, doesnt mean they are doing something wrong.

As a Pastor its his job to fully inform the sheep of God on all levels. Teach them not only about blessings and favor, but also afflictions and sufferings, so they may be full equipped for battle.....












Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> if I'm always broke it could mean miss-managements of funds or I could be reaping some bad seeds I sowed before I got saved like running up a few credit card bills, sure the old things passed away and I was made new but my loan wasn't made new it's still old and needs to be repaid...
> 
> If I'm sick it could mean that I haven't been taking care of myself the way I should...
> 
> ...


----------



## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 9, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> @nathansgirl1908
> 
> 
> I dont think she was implying that you are lying. She is just implying to be sure that whatever source you got it from, make sure they was correct with their information. I know we read articles and such on the internet, but you never know whats true. it wasnt a insult, she was just admonishing you to be sure and careful..



With all due respect, the implication of lying was there. I don't need admonitions about checking the veracity of sources. I deal with that kind of thing for a living. I wouldn't say it if there was no way to back it up with a legitimate source. Smh.


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## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

Naw.... was not implying that you're lying, nathansgirl; Forgive me if you if you think that was my intent, because it was not. Like I mentioned earlier, if these ministers are wrong, they have a higher authority to answer to. No repentance, no do-overs at the gates of hell.  That applies to ALL of us, not just ministers who do wrong or are reportedly doing wrong.  




nathansgirl1908 said:


> With all due respect, the implication of lying was there. I don't need admonitions about checking the veracity of sources. I deal with that kind of thing for a living. I wouldn't say it if there was no way to back it up with a legitimate source. Smh.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I'm glad you asked this question because my earlier response about Creflo could use clarification. I think Creflo has a gift.
> 
> I also think he skirts the line between that gift and falling into the traps of riches that many others have fallen into.
> 
> I find many things that he says to be useful.  I enjoy listning to him although I'm sometimes wary of how he approaches prosperity issues.  But despite the usefulness of his sermons and lectures, I don't like some of the issues that have been revealed concerning his finances. I especially was bothered by the fact that he helped Evander Holyfield hide substantial assets during his divorce.



https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...NAYLw0gHezPXiBQ&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1152&bih=513


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 9, 2011)

Shimmie how many people live in that mansion...it's just too excessive in my opinion


I pray that all his members have all that they need


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## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 9, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...NAYLw0gHezPXiBQ&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1152&bih=513



Lol thanks for posting this Shimmie.  I've seen his house before too and even though it's beautiful, the fact that his financials are surrounded by controversy just makes it seem suspect.


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## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

He doesn't live there anymore... that's his OLD house... ya'll need to quit 

Very well, then...why do we all pray for God to bless us with homes, to improve our finances, our health, help us get better jobs, careers, etc., yet scrutinize the preachers who are living with those same physical successes? I don't get it.... Shimmie, nathansgirl1908... explain... lol   Shimmie, do you have a photo of the house where David Jeremiah lives? I'd like to see where he lives...... 

I'm not letting you guys off the hook on this one...  




Shimmie said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...NAYLw0gHezPXiBQ&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1152&bih=513


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## nathansgirl1908 (Dec 9, 2011)

You must have missed my previous posts about the issue.  I stated clearly that I don't see an issue with wealthy preachers.  It's when they are wealthy AND there is extreme controversy surrounding that wealth.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Laela said:


> He doesn't live there anymore... that's his OLD house... ya'll need to quit
> 
> Very well, then...why do we all pray for God to bless us with homes, to improve our finances, our health, help us get better jobs, careers, etc., yet scrutinize the preachers who are living with those same physical successes? I don't get it.... Shimmie, nathansgirl1908... explain... lol   Shimmie, do you have a photo of the house where David Jeremiah lives? I'd like to see where he lives......
> 
> I'm not letting you guys off the hook on this one...



   

Is the house in Fayetteville larger than Scarlett O'hara's Atlanta Plantation...  "Tara" that he moved from?

How much house does a person need?    

Okay, seriously,  I have a 'concern' only because the Word of God says to 'shun' even the very 'appearance' of evil.    

I stand before the 'court' with these points of concern:

Knowing that the world looks down upon Ministries as dealers and stealers:

*  Why live in a home with so many 'extras' knowing it will bring a reproach upon the body of Christ?   

*  Is he willing to serve God without this?  

*  Who is he pleasing, his flesh or God with this lifestyle?  

*  How many cars does one truly need to own to get to point A from point B?

*  With all of this, isn't there some element of 'entitlement' that Creflo feels he deserves to live in the manner?  

I totally agree, that each of us pray for and receive God's blessings.  It's scriptural (The Prayer of Jabaz) is an excellent example of this.   

Whenever I see this much extravagance with a popular worldwide known Minister, any Minister, I cringe, I feel 'unsettled' in my spirit.   How big does big have to be, materially?   When / Where does it set a bound?   

Sweet Laela,  it's still coming from the hearts of people giving into this and have yet to receive in return and it's not always the fault of the one trusting when he/she gives.    

I know that Creflo no longer takes a salary from his Church, yet he still receives money from 'speaker' engagements which are mostly in other Churches.   His book sales didn't buy that much house, cars, land, planes, it also came from 'bleeding hearts'.    It's a reality.    Anyone can preach a good message, there are thousands of Elmer Gantry's.

This is just me speaking,  I simply do not have a 'settled' spirit with Dollar, White, Jakes, Noel Jones, Long, Bynum, Hinn, and em'.   

Earlier, in past times, I did.   Many of them I've been around one/one in person.    They were guest speakers at my former Church, back in the 90's and the early years of  2000 ...  Laela, I've seen them come and go.   Laela, there's a spirit and a trend,   

Hmmmmmmmmm, they 'all' have this similar trend and it's right there,  and it's not all holy.    

I'm not disparaging any of them, they indeed have great gifts.  But they're all caught up in 'having' materialism.   You see, they've gotten a 'taste' of something more than what they've had before in life, and they don't want to give it up.  I can't say that I blame them, for who wants to be poor and broke?  No one does.  

But Laela, there's something amiss. And it's right there before us each time they take the stand to preach.   They refuse to give up the riches no matter how badly it makes the Church or other Ministers look as a whole. 

They have been given the name 'televangelists' as an insult, not as an honour.  They're not living what they are preaching to others, they are taking and heaping up to themselves...  not all of them.  No, not all of them, however, it's more than enough.   

I rest my case... before the court.   My sisterhood of Believers.  

(((( Hugs ))))   You are still "Laela Rose" and always will be.    

Seriously


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## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

I think I did..my bad..  I'm pretty sure you know even the truth is controversy....




nathansgirl1908 said:


> You must have missed my previous posts about the issue.  I stated clearly that I don't see an issue with wealthy preachers.  It's when they are wealthy AND there is extreme controversy surrounding that wealth.


----------



## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

nathansgirl1908 said:


> Lol thanks for posting this Shimmie.  I've seen his house before too and even though it's beautiful, the fact that his financials are surrounded by controversy just makes it seem suspect.



And that's what bothers me, a lot.   In no way am I out to disparage any Minister, but it's just as you have stated, it seems suspect and to the extreme of it.     We all know that this man was not born rich.  

*sigh*  I just can't pretend that I'm comfortable in my spirit about these high society lifestyles.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Laela said:


> I think I did..my bad..  I'm pretty sure you know even the truth is controversy....



   Always, my humble sister.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> Shimmie how many people live in that mansion...it's just too excessive in my opinion
> 
> 
> I pray that all his members have all that they need



    The whole town.  

I'm sorry if the post I made is causing controversy.  It's not my intent.     My spirit just feels unsettled when I see things like this.


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 9, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> The whole town.
> 
> I'm sorry if the post I made is causing controversy. It's not my intent.  My spirit just feels unsettled when I see things like this.


 

Could some of these questionable prosperity people/teachings be fulfilling the scriptures?....


Perverse wranglings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, *supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw yourself*.
1 Timothy 6:15

They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by *teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain*. Titus 1:11

*In their greed these teachers will exploit you* with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 2 Peter 2:3


Did you guys see this video? Shoot them up for not paying tithes.
http://blip.tv/your-black-world-tv/creflo-dollar-says-not-tithing-should-get-you-shot-4838048


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

This is my GIF for Creflo House:


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## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

Shimmie, hold on... lemme get Creflo on the phone...












NOT!! 

Can we at least agree to pray for the innocents and for leaders who are deliberately fleecing God's sheep, whoever they may be?  I'm in no position to say whether Creflo is one of them and have just as many questions as you, but I'm understanding more and more why he and some other ministers don't find it necessary to answer to the world on their financials. He's not even that wealthy, compared to others..... What we don't know, we'll speculate, no?  

I believe the book of Micah is addressing what's going on today... a reproach of injustice.  There are other spirits trying so hard to blemish the Bride's gown; If it's one thing the story of David and Saul teaches me is that what David did not say to or about Saul pleased God. I know that's all we want to do here, is to please our Father. At least, that's my intent and I know it's yours too. I love you ladies!!


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> Could some of these questionable prosperity people/teachings be fulfilling the scriptures?....
> 
> 
> Perverse wranglings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, *supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw yourself*.
> ...



I have no words....


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

Laela,

U right we shouldnt assume..But if I see creflo dollar in a mink pulpit chair...thats it!!


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Laela said:


> Shimmie, hold on... lemme get Creflo on the phone...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I got him on the phone, crying    

"Shimmie, gimme back my keys to the Jet... "    

I said,  No, no, no...   

Yall wanna ride?   I can fly you anywhere for free.   



Yes, Laela, I agree to pray.   We must.  Otherwise it won't get any better.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Laela,
> 
> U right we shouldnt assume..*But if I see creflo dollar in a mink pulpit chair...thats it!! *



     Girl,   Quit!


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

Awww, leave the jet alone Shimmie!! 




Shimmie said:


> I got him on the phone, crying
> 
> "Shimmie, gimme back my keys to the Jet... "
> 
> ...


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Dec 9, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> @Laela,
> 
> U right we shouldnt assume..*But if I see creflo dollar in a mink pulpit chair...thats it!!*


 
This is my gif for ^^.


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## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

Oh, ya'll hurting me  with this... Lord have mercy....


Creflo is clearly making a distinction between living under the law of sin and death, and living under the New Covenant in this clip.  And how ironic... Shimmie just answered that question in the Trivia thread!   I did say some folks can't deal with his antics and sarcasm.. Exhibit A. 



Shimmie said:


> _For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death_  Romans 8:2







Health&hair28 said:


> Could some of these questionable prosperity people/teachings be fulfilling the scriptures?....
> 
> 
> Perverse wranglings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, *supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw yourself*.
> ...





Shimmie said:


> I have no words....


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> This is my gif for ^^.


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

I am all for a preacher of the Gospel reaping natural benefits for his labor in the Lord..but sometimes, they can take it out of hand sometimes.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Laela said:


> If it's one thing the story of David and Saul teaches me is that what David did not say to or about Saul pleased God. I know that's all we want to do here, is to please our Father. At least, that's my intent and I know it's yours too. I love you ladies!!



David was given the perfect opportunity to 'kill' Saul, but he chose not to.   Even after Saul had pursued David to take his life due to his jealousy over David, David could not do the same to him.  

Saul and his camp were 'fast' asleep.  (That's my Bible story language -- _"fast asleep"_ --  )

David pullled out his sword and instead of 'slaying' King Saul, he cut a swatch of Saul's garment and left Saul alive.   The next morning David stood upon a 'hill' across from where King Saul was camped.    David yelled out, 'King Saul,  King Saul, and he waved the cutting of Saul's garment, in the air, showing his alligence to him as King.   "Yo' ... I was this close to you and instead of killing you, I let you live."  

Laela, I hear what you are saying.   Although amidst the 'discomfort' in my spirit that I've shared, I take heed for what you've shared bares far more glory to God.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Laela said:


> Oh, ya'll hurting me  with this... Lord have mercy....
> 
> 
> Creflo is clearly making a distinction between living under the law of sin and death, and living under the New Covenant in this clip.  And how ironic... Shimmie just answered that question in the Trivia thread!   I did say some folks can't deal with his antics and sarcasm.. Exhibit A.



But Laela.... dat' was Paul I quoted in the Trivia thread, not Crefflo...  

:blowkiss:  

You know I'm messin' with you...    It's FRIDAY!  I get to go home and do  .


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> This is my gif for ^^.



     And I 'm still rockin' faux fur...


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Awww, leave the jet alone Shimmie!!



I just wanna take around the block for a spin....  Geepers... I'll bring it back.  

 

Wanna ride?   This thing has mink carpet... 

Laela 's gonna get me.  I betta fly this jet with a quickness


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## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

C'mon, let's go... next stop.. South Africa....  










Shimmie said:


> I just wanna take around the block for a spin....  Geepers... I'll bring it back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

Lets leave Creflo Dollar alone


But honestly...is that his real name? Im serious 





Shimmie said:


> I just wanna take around the block for a spin.... Geepers... I'll bring it back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

Yes, Alicia...that's  his real name. No moniker, no name change. He was born with that name.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Laela said:


> C'mon, let's go... next stop.. South Africa....



Whoaaaa, that picture is like  'Virtual' ...  

After Africa, England, France, then Hawaii.   I'm out of fresh pineapples.


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 9, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Lets leave Creflo Dollar alone
> 
> 
> *But honestly...is that his real name? Im serious*


 

I don't know.


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

Wait, I just read something that said he was born Michael Smith...let me dig deeper into this 





Laela said:


> Yes, Alicia...that's his real name. No moniker, no name change. He was born with that name.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Lets leave Creflo Dollar alone
> 
> 
> But honestly...is that his real name? Im serious



Shimmie hangs head in shame     (she's really trying hard not to laugh);  

Okay, I'll leave him alone.   He's a nice person, this I truly believe.  

I'm just   *sigh*  I'm just tired of the waves and tides rocking the Church, that's all.

I love you Ladies, all of you.   Laela, Alicialynn86, Health&hair28, nathansgirl1908, Iwanthealthyhair67, lilanie, TraciChanel, Nice&Wavy (sorry for messing up the thread :blush3, Everyone   

Headed for the train... then  getting it out of the way, the rest of the weekend is free for company.  Some of my girls are coming over for tea and shortbread cookies and chocolate cake ...


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Wait, I just read something that said he was born Michael Smith...let me dig deeper into this



    Girl, you are too much.    

For real though?   Michael Smith is a Christian singer, the only I know of.


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 9, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> Wait, I just read something that said he was born Michael Smith...let me dig deeper into this


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 9, 2011)

Im serious! I googled "Creflo dollar real name" and quite a few articles pulled up...Michael Smith...I could be wrong though..Im just saying 

I was just saying earlier in this thread how you cant trust all Internet articles


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 9, 2011)

interesting I remember if saying something that he wouldn't have chosen the name Dollar so, I'll take that to mean that Dollar is his real name....


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## lilanie (Dec 9, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> This is my gif for ^^.



THAT FACEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...


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## lilanie (Dec 9, 2011)

I know we've taken off the gloves with Creflo...

I just see him as my verbal Kirk Franklin ~ who I've heard him testify that he struggles with porn...

Songs like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8SPwT3nQZ8 and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lQZ6j6UGrM make me cry and THANK GOD FOR HIS MERCY AND GRACE (yes, I'm shouting and crying).


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## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

That's false information...




Alicialynn86 said:


> Wait, I *just read something that said he was born Michael Smith*...let me dig deeper into this




That face....! oh no... Bless his heart...



Health&hair28 said:


>


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## Laela (Dec 9, 2011)

Yeah that's the singer... Michael _W_ Smith.. don't forget the "W"... LOL

I guess Creflo could change his name to Will Witness. 







Shimmie said:


> Girl, you are too much.
> 
> For real though?   Michael Smith is a Christian singer, the only I know of.


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

lilanie said:


> I know we've taken off the gloves with Creflo...
> 
> I just see him as my verbal Kirk Franklin ~ who I've heard him testify that he struggles with porn...
> 
> Songs like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8SPwT3nQZ8 and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lQZ6j6UGrM make me cry and THANK GOD FOR HIS MERCY AND GRACE (yes, I'm shouting and crying).



He's okay... "Maurice White" of Earth, Wind and Fire".... He's okay.   I have been praying for this man's health for a long time.   The last time I saw him was in a concert on a video that my son recorded.   I remember seeing the 'struggle' that Maurice had moving on stage.  It was that a friend shared with me that he had some type of illness that affected his nervous system.

lilanie, I kid you not, just earlier this week, I was thinking about the man, wondering how he was and if he was still living.    Seeing him on this vid with Kirk, was the answer.   I have no idea how old this YouTube is, yet just seeing Maurice White was a blessing as he was not struggling to move as he was when I saw this man performing with the rest of the EWF group in that concert..  

Why Maurice White?  Why do I care so much about him?   Because of a song that he sang years ago that never left me called "Open Our Eyes".    I wasn't saved at the time, yet this song stuck with me and his voice.   

I pray that this group is saved 'now'.   Phillip Bailey, Maurice White, the entire group.    I got away from their music when I got saved, yet seeing this YouTube blessed me.   "September" was a family favorite.   

Thanks lilanie


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## Shimmie (Dec 9, 2011)

Laela said:


> Yeah that's the singer... Michael _W_ Smith.. don't forget the "W"... LOL
> 
> I guess Creflo could change his name to Will Witness.



     Good one.. "Will Witness"


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## Sharpened (Dec 10, 2011)

I do not pray for prosperity, career advancement, or anything the world deems as important. Jesus said our basic needs would be met while “planting His seeds” and I believe that. The surplus we receive is for advancing His Kingdom and family fun. I wish I would have known this years ago and avoided a lot of frustration.

My sister and I, back when she was 12 and I, 14, watched Dollar's full sermons at least twice. We both came to the same conclusion: people would spiritually starve to death listening to him on the regular. What neither of us realized due to our limited biblical knowledge was that the situation was far worse than we could have imagined: a powerless church due to keeping people fixated on improving flesh, soul and experiences of the world. What about growing our connection to Him, to hear from Him directly? What about His Kingdom? What about the Evangel? What about maturity, perfection, in Christ?


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 11, 2011)

not many preachers will go there



Nymphe said:


> I do not pray for prosperity, career advancement, or anything the world deems as important. Jesus said our basic needs would be met while “planting His seeds” and I believe that. The surplus we receive is for advancing His Kingdom and family fun. I wish I would have known this years ago and avoided a lot of frustration.
> 
> My sister and I, back when she was 12 and I, 14, watched Dollar's full sermons at least twice. We both came to the same conclusion: people would spiritually starve to death listening to him on the regular. What neither of us realized due to our limited biblical knowledge was that the situation was far worse than we could have imagined: a powerless church due to keeping people fixated on improving flesh, soul and experiences of the world. *What about growing our connection to Him, to hear from Him directly? What about His Kingdom? What about the Evangel? What about maturity, perfection, in Christ*?


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## Laela (Dec 11, 2011)

What is this surplus??




Nymphe said:


> I do not pray for prosperity, career advancement, or anything the world deems as important. Jesus said our basic needs would be met while “planting His seeds” and I believe that. *The surplus we receive is for advancing His Kingdom and family fun. *I wish I would have known this years ago and avoided a lot of frustration.



That is why knowing the Word of God for oneself and asking the Holy Spirit for guidance is critical when listening the ministry of others... the Holy Spirit is a sifter, allowing us to 'hear' and  to refute. There are lots of sermons out there by different ministers/teachers  on those very topics you mentioned.   
 


Nymphe said:


> My sister and I, back when she was 12 and I, 14, watched Dollar's full sermons at least twice. We both came to the same conclusion: people would spiritually starve to death listening to him on the regular. What neither of us realized due to our limited biblical knowledge was that the situation was far worse than we could have imagined: a powerless church due to keeping people fixated on improving flesh, soul and experiences of the world. *What about growing our connection to Him, to hear from Him directly? What about His Kingdom? What about the Evangel? What about maturity, perfection, in Christ?*


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## lilanie (Dec 11, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> He's okay... "Maurice White" of Earth, Wind and Fire".... He's okay.   I have been praying for this man's health for a long time.   The last time I saw him was in a concert on a video that my son recorded.   I remember seeing the 'struggle' that Maurice had moving on stage.  It was that a friend shared with me that he had some type of illness that affected his nervous system.
> 
> @lilanie, I kid you not, just earlier this week, I was thinking about the man, wondering how he was and if he was still living.    Seeing him on this vid with Kirk, was the answer.   I have no idea how old this YouTube is, yet just seeing Maurice White was a blessing as he was not struggling to move as he was when I saw this man performing with the rest of the EWF group in that concert..
> 
> ...



You are welcomeShimmie - EWF has been a family favorite of ours too... So seeing Kirk use September and then having Maurice come out... Chile please ~ another one of my "love taps" from God (crying, thanking God in prostrate position)... I like to see that there's a strong possibility that we're on the *same team*.  Of course I am not purporting that I am an exemplary follower of Jesus Christ ~ i know I'm growing... But y'all get what I am saying.

I can testify to this... I have seen P.Bailey @ my church ( from time to time and it brings me joy (not for his celebrity presence) but to see him there when he _doesnt have to be_.  You know?


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## Shimmie (Dec 11, 2011)

lilanie said:


> You are welcomeShimmie - EWF has been a family favorite of ours too... So seeing Kirk use September and then having Maurice come out... Chile please ~ another one of my "love taps" from God (crying, thanking God in prostrate position)... I like to see that there's a strong possibility that we're on the *same team*.  Of course I am not purporting that I am an exemplary follower of Jesus Christ ~ i know I'm growing... But y'all get what I am saying.
> 
> I can testify to this... I have seen P.Bailey @ my church ( from time to time and it brings me joy (not for his celebrity presence) but to see him there when he _doesnt have to be_.  You know?



All of us are growing, it never stops, and thank God for this, as this means that He is alive within us.  

I know what you mean about Phillip Bailey .   We now 'love' them in Christ Jesus and want them to be 'saved' and to know the love and joys of Jesus as we do.   So when we see them in Church or speak of God, we have a hope and a joy that they found Jesus and are growing in Him as well. 

It is my hope and prayer that both Maurice and Philip and the 'gang' are indeed one with Christ Jesus and not 'staging' the pretense of it.   I cannot judge them, and I don't want to judge them.   My choice is to simply love them and pray for them ... for back in the day...   Well,  Lilani you know...    

I'd love to hear Maurice's testimony.... I know God is in it.  

Lilani, thanks so much again for sharing this.  I've been praying for Maurice's healing for while and to 'see' him is just ... it's nothing short of a loving whisper from God's heart to me, saying, " _See, my daughter, he's okay_".

Thank you Jesus for hearing my prayer.  In your loving and healing name, Amen and Amen...


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## Nice & Wavy (Dec 12, 2011)

Good to see so many of you posting in this thread.....please, continue!


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 12, 2011)

Nymphe


Good to hear you speak on perfection in Christ! Many people look at me like Im crazy when I speak on these things! But its what we have been called to! Amen sister! 




Nymphe said:


> I do not pray for prosperity, career advancement, or anything the world deems as important. Jesus said our basic needs would be met while “planting His seeds” and I believe that. The surplus we receive is for advancing His Kingdom and family fun. I wish I would have known this years ago and avoided a lot of frustration.
> 
> My sister and I, back when she was 12 and I, 14, watched Dollar's full sermons at least twice. We both came to the same conclusion: people would spiritually starve to death listening to him on the regular. What neither of us realized due to our limited biblical knowledge was that the situation was far worse than we could have imagined: a powerless church due to keeping people fixated on improving flesh, soul and experiences of the world. What about growing our connection to Him, to hear from Him directly? What about His Kingdom? What about the Evangel? What about maturity, perfection, in Christ?


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## Sharpened (Dec 18, 2011)

Laela said:


> What is this surplus??



Anything extra after the bills are paid.



> That is why knowing the Word of God for oneself and asking the Holy Spirit for guidance is critical when listening the ministry of others... the Holy Spirit is a sifter, allowing us to 'hear' and  to refute. There are lots of sermons out there by different ministers/teachers  on those very topics you mentioned.



Unfortunately, the majority expect to be spoonfed and do not examine whether or not they are receiving the full Evangel. We have all the information we could ever want at our fingertips and yet, we have a powerless Body trying to shoehorn the Evangel into their lives. It disheartens me to talk to believers, in church for decades, who have no idea what I am talking about even when I point it out in scripture.


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## Laela (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm not trying to be funny, but what is the 'extra' for?

I most certainly disagree the Body of Christ is powerless... the Holy Spirit is amidst


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## Sharpened (Dec 19, 2011)

Laela said:


> I'm not trying to be funny, but what is the 'extra' for?


[/quote]If a household has an after-tax income one week of $1000 and its bills (housing, food, gas, clothing, utilities, etc.) for that week total $700, $300 is the surplus. Whatever, whenever and wherever I feel lead to give for the Kingdom, I give and we have fun with the rest.



Laela said:


> I most certainly disagree the Body of Christ is powerless... the Holy Spirit is amidst


Yeah, we in the West have turned Him into “life support” as in “support my life and wants”—lukewarm. Where is the power? Where is the separation from the world? What about the full manifestations of the nine gifts (tools) of the Holy Spirit on the regular? Why do so many preach again them? Why do so few understand we all are to exercise the gift of prophecy (getting a word from Him)? Why are there so few willing to sacrifice everything on His altar daily to get His will? What about the spiritual war we are supposed to engage? Why is the world growing wickeder and more antichrist everyday? Where is the repentance, the guiding of the entire world on our knees and faces en masse? I could go on and on, but I cannot make anyone see what I and others around me see. Ask Him; He will show you what He has shown me and what is to come.


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 19, 2011)

^^^^^ Its just the word of God being fulfilled


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## Sharpened (Dec 19, 2011)

Alicialynn86 said:


> ^^^^^ Its just the word of God being fulfilled


*sigh* I know. At some future date (after chastisement) the Body will be at full power worldwide. I pray I will be alive to see it.


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 19, 2011)

I know. In the words of Paul Washer "What people are calling the church is not the church"..but there is always a remnant that God has. I;m just making sure Im in the remnant. Ive noticed that the body of Christ lack intimacy with God.Some many people think that just going to church is ok. But who is tarrying before? Who is crying out for more of Him? Church is a place that teaches me how to seek God....but seeking starts after you leave the church house..



Nymphe said:


> *sigh* I know. At some future date (after chastisement) the Body will be at full power worldwide. I pray I will be alive to see it.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Dec 19, 2011)

true and many times we don't even pick up our bibles until we go to church...so if we are only attending once a week first service (early morning one to an hour and a half) then that's the only time we are seeking him ...



Alicialynn86 said:


> I know. In the words of Paul Washer "What people are calling the church is not the church"..but there is always a remnant that God has. I;m just making sure Im in the remnant. Ive noticed that the body of Christ lack intimacy with God.Some many people think that just going to church is ok. But who is tarrying before? Who is crying out for more of Him?* Church is a place that teaches me how to seek God....but seeking starts after you leave the church house..[/*QUOTE]


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## Laela (Dec 19, 2011)

That's my point....




Alicialynn86 said:


> I* know. In the words of Paul Washer "What people are calling the church is not the church".*.but there is always a remnant that God has. I;m just making sure Im in the remnant. Ive noticed that the body of Christ lack intimacy with God.Some many people think that just going to church is ok. But who is tarrying before? Who is crying out for more of Him? Church is a place that teaches me how to seek God....but seeking starts after you leave the church house..


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## LucieLoo12 (Dec 19, 2011)

Someone gave me this illustration and it stuck with me


If you eat today alll day long, i mean hamburgers, steak, fries, pizza, whatever..it dont matter..You will still be hungry tomorrow. And you will still need to eat. How much more our Spirit man? We cant just get a overload of the word of God on Sunday and be ok. Our spirit man will die too, it needs to be fed daily as well.....


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