# i need to know, was Jesus black, or not?



## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

I always heard that Jesus might have been black but I never gave much  thought to it. But recently, one of my friends told me about some  scriptures in the Bible that describe features of Jesus that would make  him black. For ex: 

Revelations 1- he is described as having hair white as wool - white/Arab  people dont have wooly hair, thats for sure. the passage also described  him as having feet that looked like brass, like if they were burned in a  furnace.

there are pictures of Russians, the Pope, Queen of England, and other dignitaries bowing down to images of a black Jesus

when Jesus was born and God told Joseph to go hide in Egypt, back then  Egyptians were mostly black so if the family was white-looking, how  could they hide? wouldnt they stand out?


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## Crown (Sep 15, 2010)

Jn. 8.32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

ok, can you Crown, or someone else point me to where the truth might be? 

i dont know where to look in the Bible and the only information I seem to find on the internet is from Black Hebrew Israelites. Are they speaking the truth?


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## Qualitee (Sep 15, 2010)

OP I think Jesus is black because of the way they described him in the Bible. ex: Hair like lambs wool and feet like brass..
General statement.... I don't understand why people are so obsessed with knowing his race. I mean, if he weren't your race would you love him any less? If he is your race would you love him even more? If the answer is yes to any of those questions then you need to reevaluate why you love Jesus Christ. He die for our sins and with that we must live for him. So his race shouldn't be a factor.


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## makeupvixen (Sep 15, 2010)

Honey, with all my heart I believe that Jesus was black. I just believe a more olive tone brown complexion (Think Tatiyanna Ali from the Fresh Prince)


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

to reply to your general statement: i understand that the "race" doesnt matter to most people, but i am curious, thats why i have to know. I also feel like I deserve to know the truth... If Jesus was not white or white looking, then it is simply wrong for the Church to perpetrate these false images. IMO

in addition, if jesus was black, then it means that there may possibly be some truth to the claims that black people in America/Caribbean are really the Chosen people spoke about in the Old Testament.


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

i also came across this video on Youtube of a white lady stating facts about how she figures Jesus was black and what it means for blacks in America. 

I dont agree 100% with everything she said but if the general message is true, then I have a lot of things to think about. 

this is the video
[video=youtube;0I430b_iCq0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I430b_iCq0[/video]


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## aribell (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm not sure what "black" means.  Like, was Jesus of African descent?  Black is a very vague term that describes a lot of different things.  We know Jesus' lineage, which is of the Hebrew people.  We know where Abraham was from, in Mesopotamia, today's Middle East.  People in that area have a variety of physical characteristics and hair types.  Some are dark, some are light.  Some have very fine hair, and yes, some do have "wooly" hair.  Heck, I know white people with wooly hair.  

I don't think we have to be concerned with claiming Jesus as "black" or "white."  Those are completely contrived terms anyway and products of our social history and structures.  Jesus probably had light brown skin and wooly hair and was an average looking Jewish man (Jewish for the time, not Jewish as we see it today)


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## Goombay_Summer (Sep 15, 2010)

I think that he had at least one black ancestor.


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## Qualitee (Sep 15, 2010)

princess me said:


> to reply to your general statement: i understand that the "race" doesnt matter to most people, but i am curious, thats why i have to know. I also feel like I deserve to know the truth... If Jesus was not white or white looking, then it is simply wrong for the Church to perpetrate these false images. IMO
> 
> in addition, if jesus was black, then it means that there may possibly be some truth to the claims that black people in America/Caribbean are really the Chosen people spoke about in the Old Testament.


 I dont think we will ever know the truth until judgement day. Black people can't be great in some white people's eyes. Maybe thats why they depicted him as a white man. I thought the Jews were the chosen people? They seem the most blessed. But then again black people are blessed too but we often have our blessings down graded,taken away from us or we just don't see it.


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

hanna_light, i'm sure everyone at that time had a least one black ancestor, thanks

nicola- thank you for your input. i'm not sure what else Black means other than 'of African descent', so that's what I meant regarding Jesus being black. the fact that the terms black/white are products of our society makes it interesting to me. if being black didn't really mean anything then i wouldn't care, but in America, i think it stands for a lot. 

im mostly curious about if Jesus was black and people know this to be fact, what is the reason for making him seem white/white-ish?  there must be some significance to him being 'white', or else they wouldn't have made him seem that way if he really wasn't. right? idk, maybe im trippin...


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

Qualitee said:


> I dont think we will ever know the truth until judgement day. Black people can't be great in some white people's eyes. Maybe thats why they depicted him as a white man. I thought the Jews were the chosen people? They seem the most blessed. But then again black people are blessed too but we often have our blessings down graded,taken away from us or we just don't see it.


 
i think that maybe there is some truth to the fact that at least back in the 1600s til even 1900s, when most of the chuch's artwork was created, black people were inferior. we werent even considered 100% human so how could Jesus have been black (to them)?  therefore, they would never even consider depicting him that way. which is deceitful imo

i know that Jewish people are supposedly the Chosen people but some people point to facts that say the Jewish people of today are not the 'real' Chosen people... it has something to do with the history and geography of the tribes. I didn't follow the information too much, i just skimmed over it really. and IDK about Jewish people being the most blessed, i guess monetarily they might be, but blessings go farther than that i'm sure.  arent you curious to know whether or not you might be from a tribe of the real chosen people? wouldnt that give you even a little but more pride? even a tiny little bit? (yes, i know pride is not favored in the Bible, but still...)


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## Qualitee (Sep 15, 2010)

princess me said:


> hanna_light, i'm sure everyone at that time had a least one black ancestor, thanks
> 
> nicola- thank you for your input. i'm not sure what else Black means other than 'of African descent', so that's what I meant regarding Jesus being black. the fact that the terms black/white are products of our society makes it interesting to me. if being black didn't really mean anything then i wouldn't care, but in America, i think it stands for a lot.
> 
> im mostly curious about if Jesus was black and people know this to be fact, *what is the reason for making him seem white/white-ish?  there must be some significance to him being 'white', or else they wouldn't have made him seem that way if he really wasn't. right? idk, maybe im trippin*...


 It goes down to racism. In the past (and still present day) black people and people with dark skin tones were looked down upon. So making him dark would be horrid. I don't think those predigest people didn't want to worship a black God especially since they despised black/dark people. I know we often see Jesus predicted with blonde hair and blue eyes, not just because its considered pure, but those feature are the most desirable.


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

Qualitee said:


> It goes down to racism. In the past (and still present day) black people and people with dark skin tones were looked down upon. So making him dark would be horrid. I don't think those predigest people didn't want to worship a black God especially since they despised black/dark people. I know we often see Jesus predicted with blonde hair and blue eyes, not just because its considered pure, but those feature are the *most desirable*.


 
SMH... the world we live in... not everyone can be from eastern europe where these features are the norm... it doesnt make you less of a person just because you dont have these features. 

i guess if Jesus really was black, or black-looking, it might be too late to put the truth out there. imagine all the upheaval it would cause for the Catholic church.


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## Qualitee (Sep 15, 2010)

princess me said:


> i think that maybe there is some truth to the fact that at least back in the 1600s til even 1900s, when most of the chuch's artwork was created, black people were inferior. we werent even considered 100% human so how could Jesus have been black (to them)?  therefore, they would never even consider depicting him that way. which is deceitful imo
> 
> i know that Jewish people are supposedly the Chosen people but some people point to facts that say the Jewish people of today are not the 'real' Chosen people... it has something to do with the history and geography of the tribes. I didn't follow the information too much, i just skimmed over it really. and IDK about Jewish people being the most blessed, i guess monetarily they might be, but blessings go farther than that i'm sure.  *arent you curious to know whether or not you might be from a tribe of the real chosen people? wouldnt that give you even a little but more pride? even a tiny little bit?* (yes, i know pride is not favored in the Bible, but still...)


 Im not going to lie it would be cool to know, but either way it wouldn't change my love for him. I don't think you're wrong for questioning Jesus' race and why he was depicted as being white?, when we all know he's not. I've done it and it would be nice to know the truth. I've heard people say Jesus was every race....if that makes sense. I *know* for a *fact* that pages have been ripped out the bible and there is a lot of things we don't know about Jesus.


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

thanks. its good to know im not alone in my curiosity. im sure it wouldnt change my love for Jesus either, but like you said it would be pretty cool. 

its interesting to hear that Jesus was every race. i haven't heard that one before... hmmm... 

Does anyone think there would ever be a way to find out what was taken away from the Bible? Maybe that information was supposed to be taken out? like werent there claims that Jesus was married and he had children? wheres the proof of that? I would like to know where his genealogy has ended up today, if that was the case


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## Guitarhero (Sep 15, 2010)

princess me said:


> to reply to your general statement: i understand that the "race" doesnt matter to most people, but i am curious, thats why i have to know. I also feel like I deserve to know the truth... If Jesus was not white or white looking, then it is simply wrong for the Church to perpetrate these false images. IMO
> 
> in addition, if jesus was black, then it means that there may possibly be some truth to the claims that black people in America/Caribbean are really the Chosen people spoke about in the Old Testament.


 

If Blacks in the Americas and the Caribbean are the true Jews, then what about the Jews from Africa and the Middle-east who still practice the religion passed down from their ancestors?  It would be kewl to learn that you actuallly do descend from Hebrews but not all Blacks in Africa are Hebrews.  So, you could descend from Africa and still not be Hebrew.  Know what I mean?  Unless you know what your individual family history is and that includes tribe and clan with intact lineal information, you cannot just say you descend from Jews.  Ex., there are Jews in Nigeria.  Say someone descended from Nigerians...but not from the tribe that is Jewish.  Then they are not Jewishly descended.  Jesus was not only Hebrew, but Jewish...with intact lineage, as most Jews know about, esp. those from Africa and Asia.  

But I know what you mean about feeling pride in knowing that the Messiah might be Black.  I do not believe Him to be.  But I do certainly comprehend what you mean.  But, if He were in fact Black, then an Eastern Asian might have the exact same issue with inclusion and pride...no representation racially and culturally.  The thing is, He revealed His Will at Mt. Sinai and was incarnated in Bethlehem 2,00 years later.  He prescribed the Hebraic faith and it belongs to a minority people to bring the Messiah.  It's what He's done for all mankind, not just that He might have been Black.  What we suffer here is the result of white colonialism and had no bearing on His choice in past.  It was the Hebrews who took His plan in obedience, none other.  Now we all benefit.  The Black/White issue is not our fault but certainly a creation of the imperialists.


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## Prudent1 (Sep 15, 2010)

princess me said:


> thanks. its good to know im not alone in my curiosity. im sure it wouldnt change my love for Jesus either, but like you said it would be pretty cool.


 
You are definitely not alone. I used to wonder the same thing. I think growing up here in America it is natural considering all of the pains that were taken to strip ppl of color of their dignity. What I can't understand is those _still_ allowing that to happen to them now buterplexed, I digress. I began to pray and ask God about this very thing several years ago. For me, his response was to not focus on what color his skin was while he was here in the flesh. He specifically told me to concentrate on what his blood had done for me instead. Then he made me aware of a song called 'The Blood song' that I'd never heard of up until that point. 
We *know*100% that he was not blond haired with blue eyes and oh so pale white skin. We also know why he was often depicted that way. The same reason good guys wear white and all that is scary, nasty, sad, and evil is represented by the color black. Slave owners and later the powers that be could not have positive upbeat intelligent slaves/blacks b/c they would not have any claim to the lies that they were somehow born superior. History repeats itself. The slave ships couldn't have been loaded down with ppl bound for the new world if Africans hadn't sold other Africans into slavery. The Europeans didn't know enough about Africa to go there and find ppl. They had help and planty of it. Those ppl made a small fortune. God was not pleased. You reap what you sow. Many of their decendants aren't faring well right now. 
Slavery existed on every continent. This new world slavery was just extra barbaric though.
We also know that Jesus made it perfectly clear that his love and salvation were for *all* ppl. There were 12 original tribes of Israel. As time went by and they moved around some did marry Nubians or Ethopians. There are black Jews. Adam and Eve (who we all came from) were not white either. All biblical ancestors are usually depicted as white even though we know they were no where near Europe. I think that is why God says not to make graven images. That's why I do not have angels and pictures of God etc all around me. (Before anyone gets upset, if you do or don't no one is putting you in hades-ok.) Images _sometimes _cause strife over who is right and the focus on what matters the most (Loving God with all your mind, soul, strength, possessions. Loving your fellow man as you love yourself) is lost. Remember, divide and conquer is and always will be a simple but effective tool in the devil's repertoire. 
Though the description in the bible makes it pretty clear Jesus was not fair skinned, he probably looked a lot like the ppl who currently live in the middle east right now. Many of which do have wooley, thick, curly hair and bronzey skin. They have not had a lot of mixing with outside cultures for quite some time and pretty much look the same. 
All of God's children (not to be confused with his creations) can know the truth and be free. One of the main functions of the Holy Spirit is to lead us into the truth of all things. OP, Have you prayed and asked God about this topic? There is nothing wrong with your questions. I hope you find the truth of God concerning all of them.

John 16:13
13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into *all* truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'


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## Pat Mahurr (Sep 15, 2010)

princess me said:


> SMH... the world we live in... not everyone can be from eastern europe where these features are the norm... it doesn't make you less of a person just because you dont have these features.
> 
> i guess if *Jesus really was black, or black-looking, it might be too late to put the truth out there. imagine all the upheaval it would cause for the Catholic church.*


 
Actually, the Catholic Church is in possession of a number of sculptures and paintings of The Black Madonna and has been for centuries. (Google "Black Madonna").  These pieces depict a woman thought to be the Virgin Mary with black skin, either made by paint or by ebony wood.  Of course, some theologians propose that the black skin was due to materials available to the artist; some say it was because the pieces were dedicated to Mary during the period of the Black Plague (although that doesn't sound right); and others say that the pieces even predate modern Christianity, and must be representations of some other religion's _Madonna_.  Others acknowledge that while the skin is black, the statues and paintings clearly have European facial features, and that the black skin must be an example of artistic license, rather than accuracy.  

Either way, the Catholic Church took enough interest to procure large numbers of these pieces.  It's all quite startling that any of these Christians bothered with artistic renderings of Mary or Jesus, given this passage in Habbakuk 2:18, which basically called a maker of images a "teacher of lies."

In any case, I don't know if Jesus was what we would call "black."  Heck, there are people from India with African features from head to toe whom we would probably not call "black" -- but that's a thread in itself.  Judging by the few descriptions the Bible gives and by my limited knowledge of anthropology, I think it safe to say Jesus looked more black than Eskimo.  

I do know that whatever He looked like, there'll be a lot of people of all races who'll want 2 forms of ID from Him when he returns.


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

Volver, thank you for your response, your post was very enlightening. You are right, Africa is such a huge continent, we could have came from a tribe anywhere in Africa- but not one of the 'special' tribes...


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

Prudent1 said:


> You are definitely not alone. I used to wonder the same thing. I think growing up here in America it is natural considering all of the pains that were taken to strip ppl of color of their dignity. What I can't understand is those _still_ allowing that to happen to them now buterplexed, I digress. I began to pray and ask God about this very thing several years ago. For me, his response was to not focus on what color his skin was while he was here in the flesh. He specifically told me to concentrate on what his blood had done for me instead. Then he made me aware of a song called 'The Blood song' that I'd never heard of up until that point.
> We *know*100% that he was not blond haired with blue eyes and oh so pale white skin. We also know why he was often depicted that way. The same reason good guys wear white and all that is scary, nasty, sad, and evil is represented by the color black. Slave owners and later the powers that be could not have positive upbeat intelligent slaves/blacks b/c they would not have any claim to the lies that they were somehow born superior. History repeats itself. The slave ships couldn't have been loaded down with ppl bound for the new world if Africans hadn't sold other Africans into slavery. The Europeans didn't know enough about Africa to go there and find ppl. They had help and planty of it. Those ppl made a small fortune. God was not pleased. You reap what you sow. Many of their decendants aren't faring well right now.
> Slavery existed on every continent. This new world slavery was just extra barbaric though.
> We also know that Jesus made it perfectly clear that his love and salvation were for *all* ppl. There were 12 original tribes of Israel. As time went by and they moved around some did marry Nubians or Ethopians. There are black Jews. Adam and Eve (who we all came from) were not white either. All biblical ancestors are usually depicted as white even though we know they were no where near Europe. I think that is why God says not to make graven images. That's why I do not have angels and pictures of God etc all around me. (Before anyone gets upset, if you do or don't no one is putting you in hades-ok.) Images _sometimes _cause strife over who is right and the focus on what matters the most (Loving God with all your mind, soul, strength, possessions. Loving your fellow man as you love yourself) is lost. Remember, divide and conquer is and always will be a simple but effective tool in the devil's repertoire.
> ...


 
i never heard of the Blood Song, I'm going to look it up. I didn't really ask God to give me the answers because I don't really know how that works. I got this information last Friday and its been on my mind ever since, then last night I came across the woman on youtube and i had to create this post today to get some clarification.\

you know, I never considered that maybe some Africans are suffering now because they sold slaves to Europeans. I always thought that Europeans went in, set up shop and stole the non-violent tribes who had no protection against the Europeans. Or maybe they sold them thinking that the people were gonna come back... IDK

you know, i forgot all about those scriptures regarding making images. even though I though they were in reference to statues, like for idols- but I guess it can apply to an image of Jesus as well, since he is in heaven now and it says no images of things in heaven/below the earth


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

Pat Mahurr said:


> Actually, the Catholic Church is in possession of a number of sculptures and paintings of The Black Madonna and has been for centuries. (Google "Black Madonna").  These pieces depict a woman thought to be the Virgin Mary with black skin, either made by paint or by ebony wood.  Of course, some theologians propose that the black skin was due to materials available to the artist; some say it was because the pieces were dedicated to Mary during the period of the Black Plague (although that doesn't sound right); and others say that the pieces even predate modern Christianity, and must be representations of some other religion's _Madonna_.  Others acknowledge that while the skin is black, the statues and paintings clearly have European facial features, and that the black skin must be an example of artistic license, rather than accuracy.
> 
> Either way, the Catholic Church took enough interest to procure large numbers of these pieces.  It's all quite startling that any of these Christians bothered with artistic renderings of Mary or Jesus, given this passage in Habbakuk 2:18, which basically called a maker of images a "teacher of lies."
> 
> ...


 
LOL thats funny because you are right on the money with that one... 

I did know about images of a Black Madonna but I didnt even consider them in regards to Jesus being black. Now that I'm thinking about it, there are even people in Southeast Asia with black features who arent considered black so I guess its not that big of a deal, if Jesus looked black. Its just that the way the information was presented to me, made it seem like a huge deal and we are missing out by not realizing Jesus was black


So, does this mean that the Black Hebrew Israelites are wrong in their beliefs??? Are they wrong for thinking that Jesus was black and they are the chosen people? I know we are all children of God created in His image and likeness but are they wrong for taking it to the next level?


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## dicapr (Sep 15, 2010)

You may want to see if you can find a copy of the history channel program about the face of Jesus.  They concluded that he looked middle eastern, which was what I always thought. They basically reconstructed what Jews in that area looked like at that time.  He probably was brown with curly hair but not black.


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## Jynlnd13 (Sep 15, 2010)

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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

Jynlnd13 said:


> I know this article is about Christmas, but when I read the OP I felt like I should link it, you should scroll to I believe the middle of the page, where it shows two different images of Jesus, one of which Jesus most likely looked like. Although the articles cover many different things it could answer some other questions you have.
> 
> 
> http://www.freewebs.com/christmaslie/thechrist.htm


 

thanks for the link, there's a lot of information on there. it also refers to king james as a mason, was he really a mason? i know for sure that masons are linked with satanic rituals, so if he was a mason, how could he have anything to do with the current version of the Bible that most use today?


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

dicapr said:


> You may want to see if you can find a copy of the history channel program about the face of Jesus.  They concluded that he looked middle eastern, which was what I always thought. They basically reconstructed what Jews in that area looked like at that time.  He probably was brown with curly hair but not black.


 
thanks, im gonna try to see if I can get a hold of that program somehow


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## Crown (Sep 15, 2010)

princess me said:


> hanna_light, i'm sure everyone at that time had a least one black ancestor, thanks
> 
> nicola- thank you for your input. i'm not sure what else Black means other than 'of African descent', so that's what I meant regarding Jesus being black. the fact that the terms black/white are products of our society makes it interesting to me. if being black didn't really mean anything then i wouldn't care, but in America, i think it stands for a lot.
> 
> *im mostly curious about if Jesus was black and people know this to be fact, what is the reason for making him seem white/white-ish?  there must be some significance to him being 'white', or else they wouldn't have made him seem that way if he really wasn't. right?* idk, maybe im trippin...



This is a painting of *Cesare Borgia*, the man who influenced all European paintings, sculptures and carvings of _*Jesus*_.

Many scholars believe the image of _*Jesus*_ has been manipulated, a skewed, and outright fabricated throughout history. This article will address such an issue.

_*Cesare Borgia*_ was the Son of Pope* Alexander VI*. In fact, he was the popes most loved and illegitimate son. (at one time papacy members were allowed to marry.) Pope _*Alexander VI*_ was known for having multiple mistresses and in 1476 bore a son named _*Cesare Borgia*_.  Cesare was the favored son, and by the age of 15, he had already become  the Bishop of Pamplona. By his 18th birthday, he had become a Cardinal.  Borgia had an older brother named Giovanni who was Captain General of  the Papacy Military forces. Cesare envied his brothers position and many  scholars believe he envied it so much that he had his own brother  assassinated in order to obtain the office. Other records show the  brothers slept with the same mistress, the wife of their younger brother  Goffredo. Many believe the inflamed love triangle between the brothers  and their so-called mistresses is what led to young Giovanni's demise.  Following Giovanni's assassination, _*Cesare Borgia*_ resigned  his position as Cardinal and became Captain General of the Papacy  Military. During this time, the Catholic Church was waging war on Islam  and Cesare was about to play a vital role in the history of the Church.   At the time, the Muslims had successfully made their way to Germany and  taken control of Turkey. This threatened the Churches stronghold over  the empire. During the same period, the image of _*Jesus*_ was  that of a Muslim and the church was having a hard time selling its  ideologies in the region. Some say they devised a plan to correct this  issue and used _*Cesare Borgia*_ as its tool. Consequently, the pope came up with a plan to have every painting of the original messiah destroyed. Next, _*Alexander VI*_ commissioned Leonardo Di Vinci to reinvent _*Jesus*_ in the image of his own beloved son, _*Cesare Borgia*_.
http://welcometoafreeworld.blogspot.com/2010/07/is-image-of-jesus-actually-image-of.html


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## princess me (Sep 15, 2010)

Crown said:


> This is a painting of *Cesare Borgia*, the man who influenced all European paintings, sculptures and carvings of _*Jesus*_.
> 
> Many scholars believe the image of _*Jesus*_ has been manipulated, a skewed, and outright fabricated throughout history. This article will address such an issue.
> 
> ...


 
OMG, what a conspiracy! I would love for someone to objectively write down the entire history of the church- the catholic church that is. There always seems to be another scandal under the surface regarding something else. Thanks for the information, I'm gonna look that up.

ETA: 

i also found this link about cesare borgia which supports the claims from the link you provided crown: http://www.macquirelatory.com/False Images of Christ.htm
I feel so deceived, and to think I was in Catholic school from grades 1-12. who knows what other false information is implanted in my brain. like the concept of original sin, smh.


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## Jynlnd13 (Sep 15, 2010)

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## Guitarhero (Sep 15, 2010)

Josephus the historian described the appearance of Jesus.  You can read an online version of his ancient accounts.  We have the image of His mother, Mary, as she appeared in Mexico.  Not Black.  Blacks did live in Jerusalem and Ethiopians made pilgrimage yearly to the Temple.  The first convert was an Ethiopian and remember, "to the Jew first."  That was the command to spread the good news...to the Jews first.  The Ethiopian Eunuch...Jewish.  Pagans had no concept of what the Jewish Messiah would be according to Jewish law.


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## Sweet C (Sep 16, 2010)

I can only go off what the bible states and that is he was a Jew and that he was not physically what we would consider beautiful (see Isaiah 53). So based on that he could physically have resembled almost any race today so I would never pinpoint Him to any specific race. I hear a lot of people use that scripture in Revelations to state that Jesus was black, but what you will rarely hear from such individuals is what the rest of that scripture states in context which reads  from Rev 1:14-1:18 (KJV) is:

Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire; 
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength. 
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 
Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 

So examining the scripture in proper context you will see that the passage has nothing to do with his actual color or race, but is describing His authority. In this vision of John the revelator he is not seen as the lamb of God (though there is some reference here i.e. hair like wool and white), but the Lion of the Tribe of Judah in his full authority. So bottom line is, does it really matter what color he is, he bleed and died so that all might have access to the tree of eternal life. Praise God for his sacrifice!!!!!


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## Crown (Sep 16, 2010)

I know it is not a salvation issue (and I think it is the same for Princess me).
  But I don’t understand why it does not matter that a lie has been associated with the Savior (the Truth).
    If it does not matter, why lie?
  Let’s consider the slavery period or the Crusades period, can someone say : it does not matter that they believe : He is white!?!
    The truth always matters, for all of us. 
    A good debate :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d10imwhqO9I      (5 parts)


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## Crown (Sep 16, 2010)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Josephus the historian described the appearance of Jesus.  You can read an online version of his ancient accounts.  *We have the image of His mother, Mary, as she appeared in Mexico.*  Not Black.  Blacks did live in Jerusalem and Ethiopians made pilgrimage yearly to the Temple.  The first convert was an Ethiopian and remember, "to the Jew first."  That was the command to spread the good news...to the Jews first.  The Ethiopian Eunuch...Jewish.  Pagans had no concept of what the Jewish Messiah would be according to Jewish law.


 
Based (or not) on this verse and others in the Scriptures :
Jean 3.13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 

How can you or someone else know for sure that it was Mary?


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## princess me (Sep 16, 2010)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> Josephus the historian described the appearance of Jesus.  You can read an online version of his ancient accounts.  We have the image of His mother, Mary, as she appeared in Mexico.  Not Black.  Blacks did live in Jerusalem and Ethiopians made pilgrimage yearly to the Temple.  The first convert was an Ethiopian and remember, "to the Jew first."  That was the command to spread the good news...to the Jews first.  The Ethiopian Eunuch...Jewish.  Pagans had no concept of what the Jewish Messiah would be according to Jewish law.


 
The mother of Jesus appeared in Mexico? Like after her death? Who says that was the real Mary? A Catholic?

I'm a bit confused by the rest of the post. Are Ethiopians Jews? Is this in reference to Ethiopians like in the Orthodox Ethiopian church?


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## princess me (Sep 16, 2010)

Sweet C, I guess you have a point, perhaps that one passage shouldn't be used so literally. But that was the only one I knew off the top of my head. But I think there are other scriptures/passages in the Bible that say similar things, IDK the Bible that well to quote them instantly though


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## chicacanella (Sep 16, 2010)

Prudent1 said:


> You are definitely not alone. I used to wonder the same thing. I think growing up here in America it is natural considering all of the pains that were taken to strip ppl of color of their dignity. What I can't understand is those _still_ allowing that to happen to them now buterplexed, I digress. I began to pray and ask God about this very thing several years ago. For me, his response was to not focus on what color his skin was while he was here in the flesh. He specifically told me to concentrate on what his blood had done for me instead. Then he made me aware of a song called 'The Blood song' that I'd never heard of up until that point.
> We *know*100% that he was not blond haired with blue eyes and oh so pale white skin. We also know why he was often depicted that way. The same reason good guys wear white and all that is scary, nasty, sad, and evil is represented by the color black. Slave owners and later the powers that be could not have positive upbeat intelligent slaves/blacks b/c they would not have any claim to the lies that they were somehow born superior. History repeats itself. The slave ships couldn't have been loaded down with ppl bound for the new world if Africans hadn't sold other Africans into slavery. The Europeans didn't know enough about Africa to go there and find ppl. They had help and planty of it. Those ppl made a small fortune. God was not pleased. You reap what you sow. Many of their decendants aren't faring well right now.
> Slavery existed on every continent. This new world slavery was just extra barbaric though.
> We also know that Jesus made it perfectly clear that his love and salvation were for *all* ppl. There were 12 original tribes of Israel. As time went by and they moved around some did marry Nubians or Ethopians. There are black Jews. Adam and Eve (who we all came from) were not white either. All biblical ancestors are usually depicted as white even though we know they were no where near Europe. I think that is why God says not to make graven images. That's why I do not have angels and pictures of God etc all around me. (Before anyone gets upset, if you do or don't no one is putting you in hades-ok.) Images _sometimes _cause strife over who is right and the focus on what matters the most (Loving God with all your mind, soul, strength, possessions. Loving your fellow man as you love yourself) is lost. Remember, divide and conquer is and always will be a simple but effective tool in the devil's repertoire.
> ...


 
*
You know, as I was reading your post about what God told you, I heard the Holy Spirit saying, "she's right," and that he did reveal that too you. So, I'm glad you sought God on that because it blessed me and I'm sure, it will bless Princess and others to that have a spiritual ear to hear.*


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 18, 2010)

princess me said:


> I always heard that Jesus might have been black but I never gave much  thought to it. But recently, one of my friends told me about some  scriptures in the Bible that describe features of Jesus that would make  him black. For ex:
> 
> Revelations 1- he is described as having hair white as wool - white/Arab  people dont have wooly hair, thats for sure. the passage also described  him as having feet that looked like brass, like if they were burned in a  furnace.
> 
> ...


 
Some say it makes no difference. It made a difference to a Pope who lost his son to death. Leonardo da Vinci paintied a picture of Caesar Borgere and that portrait became famous as Jesus Christ.
If you are a Catholic, you probably have the Apocrypha in your Old Family Bible. Check this out: If not here is the link to this scripture from the Wisdom of Solomon: http://thenazareneway.com/Wisdom of Solomon.htm

THE IMPACT OF IDOLS AND IMAGES ON THE HUMAN MIND

WISDOM OF SOLOMON

Chapter 14
The beginning of worshipping idols: and the effects thereof.
1 Again, another designing to sail, and beginning to make his voyage through the raging waves, calleth upon a piece of wood more frail than the wood that carrieth him. 

2 For this the desire of gain devised, and the workman built it by his skill. 

3 But thy providence, O Father, governeth it: for thou hast made a way even in the sea, and a most sure path among the waves, 

4 Shewing that thou art able to save out of all things, yea though a man went to sea without art. 

5 But that the works of thy wisdom might not be idle: therefore men also trust their lives even to a little wood, and passing over the sea by ship are saved. 

6 And from the beginning also when the proud giants perished, the hope of the world fleeing to a vessel, which was governed by thy hand, left to the world seed of generation. 

7 For blessed is the wood, by which justice cometh. 

8 But the idol that is made by hands, is cursed, as well it, as he that made it: he because he made it; and it because being frail it is called a god. 

9 But to God the wicked and his wickedness are hateful alike. 

10 For that which is made, together with him that made it, shall suffer torments. 

11 Therefore there shall be no respect had even to the idols of the Gentiles: because the creatures of God are turned to an abomination, and a temptation to the souls of men, and a snare to the feet of the unwise. 

12 For the beginning of fornication is the devising of idols: and the invention of them is the corruption of life. 

13 For neither were they from the beginning, neither shall they be for ever. 

14 For by the vanity of men they came into the world: and therefore they shall be found to come shortly to an end. 


NOW WHO DOES THIS REMIND YOU OF?  Read carefully:

15 For a father being afflicted with bitter grief, made to himself the image of his son who was quickly taken away: and him who then had died as a man, he began now to worship as a god, and appointed him rites and sacrifices among his servants. 

16 Then in process of time, wicked custom prevailing, this error was kept as a law, and statues were worshipped by the commandment of tyrants. 

17 And those whom men could not honour in presence, because they dwelt far off, they brought their resemblance from afar, and made an express image of the king whom they had a mind to honour: that by this their diligence, they might honour as present, him that was absent. 

18 And to worshipping of these, the singular diligence also of the artificer helped to set forward the ignorant. 

19 For he being willing to please him that employed him, labored with all his art to make the resemblance in the best manner. 

20 And the multitude of men, carried away by the beauty of the work, took him now for a god that a little before was but honored as a man. 

21 And this was the occasion of deceiving human life: for men serving either their affection, or their kings, gave the incommunicable name to stones and wood. 

NOTICE IT SAYS HERE THAT THIS IMAGE WAS 'USED TO DECEIVE MANKIND.'............
HAVE WE INTERNATIONALLY BEEN 'PERSUADED INTO SEEING CHRIST AS A 'CERTAIN COLOR' IN A PAINTING BY LEONARDO DA VINCI, AN ARTIST? HE MADE THIS PAINTING FAMOUS AND REVERED WORLD WIDE....OF CAESAR BORGERE WHOM MANY WORSHIP OR BOW TO KNEEL TO AND CALL 'JESUS CHRIST'.

22 And it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but whereas they lived in a great war of ignorance, they call so many and so great evils peace.

23 For either they sacrifice their own children, or use hidden sacrifices, or keep watches full of madness, 

24 So that now they neither keep life, nor marriage undefiled, but one killeth another through envy, or grieveth him by adultery: 

25 And all things are mingled together, blood, murder, theft and dissimulation, corruption and unfaithfulness, tumults and perjury, disquieting of the good, 

26 Forgetfulness of God, defiling of souls, changing of nature, disorder in marriage, and the irregularity of adultery and uncleaness. 

27 For the worship of abominable idols is the cause, and the beginning and end of all evil. 

28 For either they are mad when they are merry: or they prophesy lies, or they live unjustly, or easily forswear themselves. 

29 For whilst they trust in idols, which are without life, though they swear amiss, they look not to be hurt. 

30 But for two things they shall be justly punished, because they have thought not well of God, giving heed to idols, and have sworn unjustly, in guile despising justice. 

31 For it is not the power of them, by whom they swear, but the just vengeance of sinners always punisheth the transgression of the unjust.


http://thenazareneway.com/Wisdom of Solomon.htm


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## kmn1980 (Sep 18, 2010)

If Jesus' race doesn't matter, why the lie?


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 18, 2010)

Ethiopians are from the lineage of HAM, who was the father of the Africans, (not the Negroes). There are four different families from Ham.  The Hebrews are from Shem. Noah had three sons. Shem, Ham and Japheth.
During the time of the overthrow of Jerusalem, Hebrews fled from Jerusalem and the surrounding areas into Africa, so there are Hebrews living (among) the Ethiopians, and being called 'Ethiopians'. There are remnants of Hebrews scattered in Africa and to the four corners. Joseph who ruled in Egypt under the Pharoah,  was mistaken for an Egyptian by his own brothers. Moses was raised as and believed to be an Egyptian, the son of the Princess,  but he was a Hebrew. There were twelve tribes that formed the nation of Israel. The covenant blessings were handed down to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who was renamed Israel. The twelve sons of Jacob are the fathers or heads of the twelve tribes of Israel, that existed at times as two different kingdoms. The Northern and Southern kingdoms.
The Ethiopians and Hebrews obviously had a very close resemblance. It appears to be the same for the Hebrews and the Egyptians, because when Moses killed an Egyptian that was striking down a Hebrew, the defended stated that they had been defended and delivered by an 'Egyptian'.


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 18, 2010)

It is really about rulership, power and wealth. Some will get it by 'any means necessary'.

1. Lies are meant to Deceive and Confuse: If you can confuse people about the nationality of Christ, then you can confuse people about the nationality of the Hebrews, the Israelites. This is really not a 'color' issue, but a 'nationality', a nation hood issue. Every man on earth comes out of a nation. Nations have boundaries, a country, land and varying degrees of wealth and power.  If you can deceive a people into believing they are not who they are, and are someone else, and deceive the whole world, you can become who they are, claim what they have and basically steal their identity and all of the wealth that was intended for them. 

2.  Lies are used to CONTROL: You just have to keep every one confused, and under control with lies, and more lies. Why do you think that the names of countries keep getting changed, and people get pushed out of their countries, another group goes in and esto presto.......a thousand years later.....the people are a different color, speaking a different tongue, and the 'natives' have been marginalized or decimated?  Of course they got it all in a fair fight, right? Or 'moral treaties' and 'mutually pursued and mutally beneficial contracts'? Look at the trail of carnage and degradation of the other half of the 'arrangements' and ask yourself...What have we not been lied to about?  If they can convince us we came from monkeys, what does that say about us, being 'easily' susceptible to LIES!"

You realize that at one time all of America, North and South was once 'Indian Territory' and Texas and a lot of States, were Mexico. Hawaii was once an Asian Island of the Pacific and Alaska belonged to Canada. Now we have Canadians and Americans. And we call the 'original people', minorities, or 'immigrants' or 'refugees'. Now someone else is in power, and has control of the people, the land and its resources. They have the ultimate control. Their own enforced laws,  military power, and guns, and the network support of their fellow liars around the world.

Remember, Israel was once Canaan, Egypt was once Misraim. Iran was once Persia. Iraq was once Babylon. Would you be surprised to hear that the intent is to make Iraq and Iran, British - American? How did America get Hawaii, and Iraq? You do the research!

You cannot make this stuff up.  We are living it.


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 18, 2010)

THEY said a lot of things about King James 'to discredit him.' Including that he was homosexual. I will pull up the Preface to the King James Bible. You might find it enlightening. By the way. He was a black man, in spite of the white wash of his pictures. He sat on three thrones of Europe simultaneously. They did not tell you that did they? There is a reason.

Does this sound like how slanderers are depicting him? MAKE SURE TO READ IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO THE BOTTOM!
("The Epistle Dedicatory")
The Translators of the Bible wish Grace
TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE
JAMES
BY THE GRACE OF GOD
KING OF GREAT BRITAIN, FRANCE, AND IRELAND,
DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, &c.
The Translators of the Bible wish Grace, Mercy, and Peace
through JESUS CHRIST our Lord.


Great and manifold were the blessings, most dread Sovereign, which Almighty God, the Father of all mercies, bestowed upon us the people of England, when first he sent Your Majesty's Royal Person to rule and reign over us. For whereas it was the expectation of many who wished not well unto our Sion, that, upon the setting of that bright Occidental Star, Queen Elizabeth, of most happy memory, some thick and palpable clouds of darkness would so have overshadowed this land, that men should have been in doubt which way they were to walk, and that it should hardly be known who was to direct the unsettled State; the appearance of Your Majesty, as of the Sun in his strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gave unto all that were well affected exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the Government established in Your Highness and Your hopeful Seed, by an undoubted Title; and this also accompanied with peace and tranquility at home and abroad.

But among all our joys, there was no one that more filled our hearts than the blessed continuance of the preaching of God's sacred Word among us, which is that inestimable treasure which excelleth all the riches of earth; because the fruit thereof extendeth itself, not only to the time spent in this transitory world, but directeth and disposeth men unto that eternal happiness which is above in heaven.

Then not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it up, and to continue it in that state wherein the famous Predecessor of Your Highness did leave it; nay, to go forward with the confidence and resolution of a man, in maintaining the truth of Christ, and propagating it far and near, is that which hath so bound and firmly knit the hearts of all Your Majesty's loyal and religious people unto You, that Your very name is precious among them: their eye doth behold You with comfort, and they bless You in their hearts, as that sanctified Person, who, under God, is the immediate author of their true happiness. And this their contentment doth not diminish or decay, but every day increaseth and taketh strength, when they observe that the zeal of Your Majesty toward the house of God doth not slack or go backward, but is more and more kindled, manifesting itself abroad in the farthest parts of Christendom, by writing in defence of the truth, (which hath given such a blow unto that Man of Sin as will not be healed,) and every day at home, by religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of God, by hearing the Word preached, by cherishing the teachers thereof, by caring for the Church, as a most tender and loving nursing father.

There are infinite arguments of this right Christian and religious affection in Your Majesty; but none is more forcible to declare it to others than the vehement and perpetuated desire of accomplishing and publishing of this work, which now, with all humility, we present unto Your Majesty. For when Your Highness had once out of deep judgment apprehended how convenient it was, that, out of the Original Sacred Tongues, together with comparing of the labours, both in our own and other foreign languages, of many worthy men who went before us, there should be one more exact translation of the Holy Scriptures into the English Tongue; Your Majesty did never desist to urge and to excite those to whom it was commended, that the Work might be hastened, and that the business might be expedited in so decent a manner, as a matter of such importance might justly require. 

And now at last, by the mercy of God, and the continuance of our labours, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hopes that the Church of England shall reap good fruit thereby, we hold it our duty to offer it to Your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal mover and author of the Work; humbly craving of your most Sacred Majesty, that, since things of this quality have ever been subject to the censures of ill-meaning and discontented persons, it may receive approbation and patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as Your Highness is; whose allowance and acceptance of our labours shall more honour and encourage us than all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God's holy truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self-conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil; we may rest secure, supported within by the truth and innocency of a good conscience, having walked the ways of simplicity and integrity as before the Lord, and sustained without by the powerful protection of Your Majesty's grace and favour, which will ever give countenance to honest and Christian endeavors against bitter censures and uncharitable imputations.

The Lord of heaven and earth bless Your Majesty with many and happy days; that, as his heavenly hand hath enriched Your Highness with many singular and extraordinary graces, so You may be the wonder of the world in this latter age for happiness and true felicity, to the honour of that great GOD, and the good of his Church, through Jesus Christ our Lord and only Saviour.  

(cont'd)to follow
 Translators to the Reader: Tells what was really going down and you will understand why he was maligned.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)/Preface


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 18, 2010)

Regarding the 'King James was a Mason' thing. 

Half the men and many women are masons. All the elite men,  and the preachers and the politicians are Masons of some order or branch. That Organization has a long trail back and a long trail in front. What we really need to look at is WHEN AND WHO  took over the organization to become as we see it today. The same ones who now control and have taken over the top positions of religion, politics, the banks, education and the media, medicine and pharmaceuticals and research, entertainment and law,  and have inflitrated every area of society. A lot of people on this board and on this site, have family that are Masons, way back and now. I think you get my point.


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 18, 2010)

Sweet C said:


> I can only go off what the bible states and that is he was a Jew and that he was not physically what we would consider beautiful (see Isaiah 53). So based on that he could physically have resembled almost any race today so I would never pinpoint Him to any specific race. I hear a lot of people use that scripture in Revelations to state that Jesus was black, but what you will rarely hear from such individuals is what the rest of that scripture states in context which reads  from Rev 1:14-1:18 (KJV) is:
> 
> Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;
> Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
> ...


 
What do you believe the color of that would be?
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace..."  Have you ever seen fine brass that was burned in a furnace? or even brass that was left unpolished and cleaned.....like the old brass door knobs that tarnished?

or the Hebrews in the book of Lamentations 'that were black unto the ground'? I have got to run and check my Dead Sea Scroll Bible. Later.

Okay: Lamentations 4: 7, 8
"Her rulers were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk; their bodies were more ruddy than coal, their polishing was as of sapphire. 8. Their appearance is blacker than coal; they are not known in the streets.  Their skin has shrivelled on their bones, it is withered, it has become like wood."

The Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 586 B.C.E. Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated into English 1999


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 18, 2010)

You deserve the fullest answer I can give you.
Black people’s skin tones come in varying shades of 'BLACK'. Check your family, black friends and you will see it is so. Adam was formed from the dust of the ground. How many colors of dust of the ground are there?

•	Job commenting on his skin:…
Job 30:30: “My skin is *black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat.”
Jeremiah 8:21: “For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am “black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.

Jeremiah 14:2: “Judah mourneth, and the gates thereof languish; they are *black unto the ground; and the cry of Jerusalem is gone up.” (Judah is one of the twelve tribes) Christ  is called ‘The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, because he was born out of that tribe. (what color is dirt of the ground?)
Lamentations 5:10 “Our skin is ‘black like an oven because of the terrible famine." 

Solomon and His Wife:  Song of Solomon: 1:5 “I am *black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon. 6 Look not upon me, because I am *black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother’s children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept”
Song of Solomon 4:1 “1Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy *locks: thy hair is as a flock of *goats, that appear from mount Gilead. 2Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them. 

Apostle Paul: They thought he was an African. (Ethiopian)
Acts 21:36-40: “37 And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee? Who said, Canst thou speak Greek? 38 Art not thou that EGYPTIAN, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers? 39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people. 40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying…”

Amos 9:7: 7  “Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD. Have not I brought up ISRAELout of the land of EGYPT? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir? "
Moses “Ethiopian Wife”:  Her color was NOT THE PROBLEM: The issue was that Moses was a LEVITE from the tribe of Levi, a Hebrew, an Israelite and had taken a foreign wife: It was a commandment issue!
Numbers 12:1 “And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the ETHIOPIAN woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.” (The Africans were considered ‘strangers’, ‘foreigners’, pagan idolaters and Moses had married outside of his nation) compare:

Ezra 10:14 “Let now our rulers of all the congregation stand, and let all them which have taken strange wives in our cities come at appointed times, and with them the elders of every city, and the judges thereof, until the fierce wrath of our God for this matter be turned from us.”
Ezra 9:1 After these things had been done, the leaders came to me and said, "The people of Israel, including the PRIESTS AND THE LEVITES, have not kept themselves separate from the neighboring peoples with their detestable practices, like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians and Amorites..verse …12Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever.
 Exodus 1:1 “These  are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob. 2Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, 3Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin, 4Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher. 5And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already. 6And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation. 7And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them

YES. JESUS WAS BLACK, FROM THE NATION OF ISRAEL, TRIBE OF JUDAH, born in Bethlehem, Judea
Hebrews were varying shades of black without European inbreeding.
Hebrews are not Africans who are born from HAM, but there are some 'so called' Africans who are actually Hebrew, due to fleeing into Egypt and assimilating into the African culture, just as there are Hebrews in America and all around the world, Diaspora.

Zondervan Bible Dictionary
"Ham;
Born 96 years before the flood, 1 of 8 to survive, became father of the dark races, EXCEPT FOR THE NEGROES…"


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## princess me (Sep 19, 2010)

Mahalialee4, thanks for all that information, I have a lot to read through today and I will come to a final conclusion regarding this. 

but how do we know that King James was black? and how can people accurately follow the history of the Hebrews?


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## Laela (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, 
What matters most is what do *YOU *believe?
I sincerely pray that you come to terms in your spirit on whom Jesus really is and like, Peter, you are fully persuaded. 

God bless

*MATTHEW 16*[/I]
_13  When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, *But whom say ye that I am?*
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, *Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.* -_


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 19, 2010)

princess me said:


> Mahalialee4, thanks for all that information, I have a lot to read through today and I will come to a final conclusion regarding this.
> 
> but how do we know that King James was black? and how can people accurately follow the history of the Hebrews?


 
RESEARCH

For me. personally,  it is not a color issue but a 'truth' issue.
Why would Scripture mention color, or nationality? I guess it mattered that we know.

A Book You Might Want To Check Out re: 
'Nature Knows No Color Line' to check out King James. You will see a picture of his son, his grandmother and mother type pictos in the coats of arms, obviously black with Afros. If you really want to research it out, there's more info out there. But Start With That Book. I will check for you where to get it from.
King James succeeded Queen Elizabeth I to the throne of England.
A lot of history has been 'blacked out.' Have you wondered why they really called it the 'Dark Ages' and then suddenly there was 'enlightenment'? That was a time when blacks ruled in Europe, The Dark Ages.

There You Go.
The Book Nature Knows No Color Line
http://www.africanbookstore.net/proddetail.asp?prod=NF3119

You Might Find Some Information on this tape because it contains some historical perspective 
1 KING JAMES WAS BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoQUFGrCULk&NR=1&feature=fvwp
2 KING JAMES WAS BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gzDWftlAg&feature=related
3 KING JAMES WAS BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ORa7_e9Ij0&feature=related

You of course can continue to further Research to satisfy yourself as I did re: King James
You can accurately follow the History of the Hebrews, through Bible Prophecy, and Historical documents. There is a lot of it available. The geneology, where they settled, and where they were scattered to is stated clearly in different Scriptures. Down to where the tribes ended up in North and South America etc. Keep checking things out for yourself. You will be rewarded.

Hope this helps a little.


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## Guitarhero (Sep 20, 2010)

Crown said:


> Based (or not) on this verse and others in the Scriptures :
> Jean 3.13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
> 
> How can you or someone else know for sure that it was Mary?



I understand that there are diff. denominations on here and it is not that I do not have an answer, I do, but my point was not particularly that specific issue.  Thing is, there are icons that are very accurate.  There are paintings that the apostles did (well, one...St. Luke) and His mother was not Black.  There have always been "holy" images that have been kept. Depends upon where you are in christendom as to personal access to those.    That is not something that I will argue about - those differences.  Just want to say that many people have personally seen Jesus, many people, no matter their ethnicity nor religion.


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## Crown (Sep 21, 2010)

Volver_Alma_Gitana said:


> I understand that there are diff. denominations on here and it is not that I do not have an answer, I do, but my point was not particularly that specific issue.  Thing is, there are icons that are very accurate.  There are paintings that the apostles did (well, one...St. Luke) and His mother was not Black.  There have always been "holy" images that have been kept. Depends upon where you are in christendom as to personal access to those.    That is not something that I will argue about - those differences.  Just want to say that many people have personally seen Jesus, many people, no matter their ethnicity nor religion.


 
 Dear Volver, let’s remember this :
1 Cor. 7.23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 

  Let’s do this :       
1 Thes. 5.21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
And this :
Act. 17.11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 

Let’s not forget this : 
Rom. 14.12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Shalom!


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## Ivonnovi (Sep 21, 2010)

I KNOW HE DID NOT HAVE LONG BLOND HAIR, BLUE EYES AND A PALE WHTIE COMPLEXION.

I believe that he was of the darker complexion.   

OP I get the point of your curiosity, because our children are bombarded with this errenous picture of Jesus, and it is very deceiving.   VERY!


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## chicacanella (Sep 21, 2010)

Ivonnovi said:


> I KNOW HE DID NOT HAVE LONG BLOND HAIR, BLUE EYES AND A PALE WHTIE COMPLEXION.
> 
> I believe that he was of the darker complexion.
> 
> OP I get the point of your curiosity, because our children are bombarded with this errenous picture of Jesus, and it is very deceiving.   VERY!



*That's why it's important to have a personal relationship with Jesus. Anytime I want to know something, I just ask him and wait for the answer. He's just that close but that comes with cultivation of a relationship. It comes with sincere worship, praise and a strong prayer life.  I could sit here and listen to Mahaliee or anyone else on this thread when they say something but if I'm not sure about something, I just ask God. Most of the time the Holy Spirit is speaking to me while I'm reading because he knows what I'm thinking.

But again, the way not to be misled is to know Him, not just the bearing of His name. But really talk to God, ask him questions, and hear him talk back to you.
*


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## Poohbear (Sep 21, 2010)

The term "Black" is just a social construct based on dark pigmentation of skin. There is no such thing as "Black" people back during Jesus' time.

And about Revelations 1:14 - it is NOT saying Jesus' hair was like wool... it is saying his head and hair was *white like wool*, in other words, his head and hair was the color of wool. BUT this verse does not mean Jesus was of the "White" race as we see today. You must keep in mind that Revelations uses a lot of symbols, similies, and metaphors to represent other meanings.


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## Ivonnovi (Sep 21, 2010)

\/  \/   All of that is "nice".   But that part of that mentality is what kept US on the plantation for generations.   WE were mislead for generations into worshiping the "wrong interpretation of Jesus and Christianity".  

     To know Jesus as "intimately" as you do, you had to have good leadership and sound answers, many of which was provided by the leaders who lead you in your faith. 

The OP posted a question that is important to her & her walk.   I posted about the negative longterm effect of images of a caucasion looking Jesus.  
  Society see's a long stringy haired caucasion man (with a beard) and we think ....he looks like Jesus Christ; we see a loc'd hair'd man or an unkempt fro and we're apalled; not once thinking ...he looks like John the Baptist! (LOL a lil'humor, but true).          Perhaps this is why Islam is so dead set against images of Mohammed.  

As you type about the peace that comes with cultivating a relationship with Jesus, do not forget that this is the same Jesus that went into the Temple and overturned table/chairs and whatever else because there was "some wrong doing" going on there, the same Jesus that challenged his "step-father" at the age of 12, and the same Jesus whose Disciples were troubled with nuiances of their walk with him right up till the last day.

SO WHEN someone asks a ? about Chrisitanity; answer/address their issue, direct them to sound scriptures or a trusted source, or tell them you do not know, BUT DO not respond with  "you need to get to know him......".  That might work with your spiritual peers, but not for the everyday inquiring soul.  



chicacanella said:


> *That's why it's important to have a personal relationship with Jesus. Anytime I want to know something, I just ask him and wait for the answer. He's just that close but that comes with cultivation of a relationship. It comes with sincere worship, praise and a strong prayer life.  I could sit here and listen to Mahaliee or anyone else on this thread when they say something but if I'm not sure about something, I just ask God. Most of the time the Holy Spirit is speaking to me while I'm reading because he knows what I'm thinking.
> 
> But again, the way not to be misled is to know Him, not just the bearing of His name. But really talk to God, ask him questions, and hear him talk back to you.
> *


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## chicacanella (Sep 21, 2010)

Ivonnovi said:


> \/  \/   All of that is "nice".   But that part of that mentality is what kept US on the plantation for generations.   WE were mislead for generations into worshiping the "wrong interpretation of Jesus and Christianity".
> 
> *Ivonnovi, it's actually more than "nice." I really can't describe any words of how good it is to really know Jesus Christ.  I'm also trying to understand how my post led you to believe that it is "part of the mentality is what kept US on the plantation for generations." What I am telling the OP is that, if you are confused about something and want to know how Jesus looked, just ask him. How is that misleading?*
> 
> ...


 *
Actually, I believe my post was very appropriate as I asked God before posting and he said it was acceptable. I'm just taking direction from him. If you go throughout the thread, you will see that the OP seems slightly confused. Of course, God is not the author of confusion. Stating that having a close relationship with Jesus Christ is actually answering and adressing their issue. I don't know how much direct you can get than going to God himself. I'm stating what I would have hope to have known years ago instead of being misguided by leadership. So, years ago I was that everyday inquiring soul but no one told me what I am telling the OP.

Please, help me understand where you are coming from because even though people state it alot, knowing Him can change your destiny forever.*


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 22, 2010)

THE CONFEDERACY NATIONS HAVE DIVIDED US INTO 'BLACK' AND WHITE'.  There is no such thing as a 'white person', either. We have no problem however referring to them as 'white'. However we all realize what is meant by the terms 'black' and 'white'. Today, we are referred to as 'black' and it has many 'symbols, siilies and metaphors' attached to it. But the skin color, is not an illusion. It is real.


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## Sweet C (Sep 22, 2010)

Mahalialee4 said:


> What do you believe the color of that would be?
> Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace..."  Have you ever seen fine brass that was burned in a furnace? or even brass that was left unpolished and cleaned.....like the old brass door knobs that tarnished?
> 
> or the Hebrews in the book of Lamentations 'that were black unto the ground'? I have got to run and check my Dead Sea Scroll Bible. Later.
> ...


 
All am I stating is that we must take the scripture in proper context.  Not just take out the one part that we like and use it to justify the race of Christ, which based on this scripture is still not given, when the context of the passage had nothing to do with his race, but with his authority.  yes, I understand that burnt bronze gives off a dark  color but once again this is dealing with his authority not his color.  

I am not saying that Christ may not have had a dark skin tone, b/c thats possible.  I am saying I can't definitively state that based solely on this scripture in its proper context and the truth is that is doesn't matter.  Would I love him less if he was or wasn't?  No, b/c he died so that ALL might have life and it more abundantly.


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## Jynlnd13 (Sep 22, 2010)

...........................


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## brg240 (Sep 25, 2010)

I do not think Jesus was Black/African and he definitely wasn't white/European. Jesus was a middle eastern Jewish person.

I wouldn't use that 'Jesus' hair was like wool' to explain that Jesus was black because the same verse said that his head was white like wool. I don't know many black people with white faces.... I think that's more a spiritual description honestly.

The popular picture of Jesus is based on one of the Pope's sons. Anyway people didn't star depicting him until hundreds of years after his resurrection. :\


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## Mahalialee4 (Sep 27, 2010)

The people have been moved around, and changed, and the maps have changed. Back in Jesus time, if you check the ancient maps....would you find a Middle East? Would you find that Europe is in Asia? So much has changed, that you cannot go by who is in the "Middle East Today".  Really eye opening when you check out those old maps!


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## brg240 (Sep 27, 2010)

Mahalialee4 said:


> The people have been moved around, and changed, and the maps have changed. Back in Jesus time, if you check the ancient maps....would you find a Middle East? Would you find that Europe is in Asia? So much has changed, that you cannot go by who is in the "Middle East Today".  Really eye opening when you check out those old maps!


 I'm confused by your statement. The 'Middle East' is a European concept so of course it wouldn't be on there. A pretty new one at that. (Of course not the land area or people but the term Middle East)
When I said Middle East I meant a Semitic person.


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