# If you don't speak in tongues - you don't have the Holy Spirit.



## gone_fishing (Feb 11, 2008)

I had an interesting chat with a friend today.

Dirk Ellick: do you speak in toungs
gratiae: nope
gratiae: not one of my gifts
gratiae: some folks believe that if you don't speak in tongues then you are not saved but i believe and the bible says that speaking in tongues is a gift and that there are many spiritual gifts and the holy spirit gives these spiriutal gifts as it desires - my gift is discernment. 
Dirk Ellick: so do you think that a church that tells you that its the evidence of the holy spirit is wrong
gratiae: one person may not have a gift that someone else has
gratiae: there are more gifts of the holy spirit than tongues.
Dirk Ellick: i know that but i have a hard time with people who thinks that it is something that you must do

Have ya'll ever heard someone say this before?


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

Acts 2: Holy Spirit upon ALL (including Mary, the mother of Jesus). These tongues are for all. Available to ALL BELIEVERS.

1 Corinthians 12: specific manifestation of the Holy Spirit for a distinct purpose.


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## gone_fishing (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Acts 2: Holy Spirit upon ALL (including Mary, the mother of Jesus). These tongues are for all. Available to ALL BELIEVERS.
> 
> 1 Corinthians 12: specific manifestation of the Holy Spirit for a distinct purpose.


 
Can you elaborate please. erplexed


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

adequate said:


> Can you elaborate please. erplexed


 
It's Acts 2:38:
"37 When the Jews heard this, their hearts were troubled. They said to Peter and to the other missionaries, "Brothers, what should we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Be sorry for your sins and turn from them and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, *and your sins will be forgiven. You will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 This promise is to you and your children. It is to all people everywhere. It is to as many as the Lord our God will call."* (NLV)


1 Corinthians 12:
4-11God's various gifts are handed out everywhere; but they all originate in God's Spirit. God's various ministries are carried out everywhere; but they all originate in God's Spirit. *God's various expressions of power are in action everywhere;* but God himself is behind it all. Each person is given something to do that shows who God is: Everyone gets in on it, everyone benefits. All kinds of things are handed out by the Spirit, and to all kinds of people! The variety is wonderful: wise counsel, clear understanding, simple trust, healing the sick, miraculous acts, proclamation, distinguishing between spirits, tongues, interpretation of tongues. All these gifts have a common origin, but are handed out one by one by the one Spirit of God. He decides who gets what, and when. 

The "spiritual gifts" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 speak to the distinct manifestations that either come upon a person at a particular moment for a particular situation, or some of these manifestations reside, regularly in a believer as it is part of his/her ministry or function. See these as specific FUNCTIONS, as they are noted in the same chapter that speak to PARTS OF THE BODY... each BODY PART has a specific FUNCTION.

Where as Acts 1:38 speak to a kind of "sealing" or preservation, if you will, of a believer who receives and accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The EVIDENCE that the Holy Spirit swells within a BELIEVER.

Acts 1:1 The followers of Jesus were all together in one place fifty days after the special religious gathering to remember how the Jews left Egypt. 2 All at once there was a sound from heaven like a powerful wind. It filled the house where they were sitting. 3 Then they saw tongues which were divided that looked like fire. These came down on each one of them. 4 *They were all filled with the Holy Spirit.* Then they began to speak in other languages which the Holy Spirit made them able to speak.

How would we know that we are HOLY SPIRIT-FILLED believers without this EVIDENCE? Anybody can SAY they are filled. But what better "proof" is the actual heavenly language, tongues?


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## kblc06 (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> My apologies. It's Acts 1:38:
> "37 When the Jews heard this, their hearts were troubled. They said to Peter and to the other missionaries, "Brothers, what should we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Be sorry for your sins and turn from them and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, *and your sins will be forgiven. You will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 This promise is to you and your children. It is to all people everywhere. It is to as many as the Lord our God will call."* (NLV)
> 
> 
> ...



To add this, I would encourage you to read a book called "And They Spoke In Other Tongues". A man speaks about his personal experience & research with people speaking in tongues from languages of all cultures. One interesting thing is that when speaking in tongues, the languages sounded to others as their NATIVE language. In other words, if a person native lang. was Swahili, and someone of Polish descent spoke in tongues during spiritual upheaval, it sounded like Swahili to the interpreter.  This occurred once when I spoke in tongues during a service once, there was a Somali lady at the service who spoke Somali & arabic and she could understand every word I was saying when I could not  I just thought that was interesting....carry one


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> How would we know that we are HOLY SPIRIT-FILLED believers without this EVIDENCE? Anybody can SAY they are filled. But what better "proof" is the actual heavenly language, tongues?


 
How about the fruits of Spirit as described Galatians 5:22-23? 
Didn't Jesus say in Matthew 7:20 that by their fruits they will be recognized?


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

kblc06 said:


> To add this, I would encourage you to read a book called "And They Spoke In Other Tongues". A man speaks about his personal experience & research with people speaking in tongues from languages of all cultures. One interesting thing is that when speaking in tongues, the languages sounded to others as their NATIVE language. In other words, if a person native lang. was Swahili, and someone of Polish descent spoke in tongues during spiritual upheaval, it sounded like Swahili to the interpreter. This occurred once when I spoke in tongues during a service once, there was a Somali lady at the service who spoke Somali & arabic and she could understand every word I was saying when I could not  I just thought that was interesting....carry one


This is why I'm not so sure that what people call speaking in tongues today is what it was in the Bible. In Acts when the people were speaking in tongues they were speaking ACTUAL EXISTING languages....


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> How about the fruits of Spirit as described Galatians 5:22-23?
> Didn't Jesus say in Matthew 7:20 that by their fruits they will be recognized?


 
Galatians 5:22-23:
--these scriptures speak to our CONDUCT, our behavior, lifestyle. Yes. This scripture does not negate or undo the scriptures about being filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. In fact, it further establishes that a BELIEVER has to have the infilling of the Holy Spirit in order to PRODUCE these fruit...especially with some degree of consistency. Even with the Holy Spirit, there are some tough days. But without the Holy Spirit? YIKES!!!! How much MORE FRUIT can I produce with the Holy Spirit helping me to STAY HOLY?!?? LOL!!!!

Matthew 7:20: same as above.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> This is why I'm not so sure that what people call speaking in tongues today is what it was in the Bible. In Acts when the people were speaking in tongues they were speaking ACTUAL EXISTING languages....


 
There's nothing that indicates that this has changed. This still happens today. According to Acts 1:38-39, this promise was to them (and us) and our children... as many as the Lord shall call. 2000 years later, the Lord is still calling people to Him.


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## gone_fishing (Feb 11, 2008)

So are you saying Christians that do not speak in tongues do not have the Holy Spirit or what is your understanding?

I know what I believe but just interested in learning from you all.


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## gone_fishing (Feb 11, 2008)

Two interesting passgages I read in regards to speaking in tongues:

The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. The apostles went out and shared the Gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages, “we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" (Acts 2:11). The Greek word translated "tongues" literally means "languages." Therefore, the gift of tongues is speaking in a language a person does not know in order to minister to someone who does speak that language. In 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14, where Paul discusses miraculous gifts, he comments that, “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?" (1 Corinthians 14:6). According to the Apostle Paul, and in agreement with the tongues described in Acts, speaking in tongues is valuable to the one hearing God’s message in his/her own language, but it is useless to everyone else – unless it is interpreted / translated.

A person with the gift of interpreting tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30) could understand what a tongues-speaker was saying even though he/she did not know the language that was being spoken. The tongues-interpreter would then communicate the message of the tongues-speaker to everyone else, so all could understand. “For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says” (1 Corinthians 14:13). Paul’s conclusion regarding un-interpreted tongues is powerful, “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue" (1 Corinthians 14:19).

Is the gift of tongues for today? 1 Corinthians 13:8 mentions the gift of tongues ceasing, although it connects the ceasing with the arrival of the "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Some point to a difference in the language in prophecy and knowledge "ceasing" with tongues "being ceased" as evidence for tongues ceasing before the arrival of the "perfect." While possible, this is not explicitly clear from the text. Some also point to passages such as Isaiah 28:11 and Joel 2:28-29 as evidence that speaking in tongues was a sign of God's oncoming judgment. 1 Corinthians 14:22 describes tongues as a "sign to unbelievers." According to this argument, the gift of tongues was a warning to the Jews that God was going to judge Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Therefore, when God did in fact judge Israel (with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70), the gift of tongues would no longer serve its intended purpose. While this view is possible, the primary purpose of tongues being fulfilled does not necessarily demand its cessation. Scripture does not conclusively assert that the gift of speaking in tongues has ceased.

At the same time, if the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God's Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command that God gave through the Apostle Paul, "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two — or at the most three — should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in submission to 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

God most definitely can give a person the gift of speaking in tongues to enable him/her to communicate with a person who speaks another language. The Holy Spirit is sovereign in the dispersion of the spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11). Just imagine how much more productive missionaries could be if they didn’t have to go to language school, and were instantly able to speak to people in their own language. However, God does not seem to be doing this. Tongues does not seem to occur today in the form it did in the New Testament despite the fact that it would be immensely useful. The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above. These facts lead to the conclusion that the gift of tongues has ceased, or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today

_________________

There are three occasions in the book of Acts where speaking in tongues accompanied the receiving of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4; 10:44-46; 19:6). However, these three occasions are the only places in the Bible where speaking in tongues is an evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. Throughout the book of Acts thousands of people believe in Jesus and nothing is said about them speaking in tongues (Acts 2:41; 8:5-25; 16:31-34; 21:20). Nowhere in the New Testament is it taught that speaking in tongues is the only evidence a person has received the Holy Spirit. In fact, the New Testament teaches the opposite. We are told that every believer in Christ has the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 1:13-14), but not every believer speaks in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:29-31).

So, why was speaking in tongues the evidence of the Holy Spirit in those three passages in Acts? Acts chapter 2 records the apostles being baptized in the Holy Spirit and empowered by Him to proclaim the Gospel. The Apostles were enabled to speak in other languages (tongues) so they could share the truth with people in their own languages. Acts chapter 10 records the Apostle Peter being sent to share the Gospel with non-Jewish people. Peter and the other early Christians, being Jews, would have a hard time accepting Gentiles (non-Jewish people) into the church. God enabled the Gentiles to speak in tongues to demonstrate that they had received the same Holy Spirit that the apostles had received (Acts 10:47; 11:17).

Acts 10:44-47 describes this, “While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 'Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.'” Peter later points back to this occasion as proof that God was indeed saving the Gentiles (Acts 15:7-11).

Speaking in tongues is not presented anywhere in the Bible as something Christians should expect when they receive Jesus Christ as their Savior and are therefore baptized in the Holy Spirit.. In fact, out of all the conversion accounts in the New Testament, only two record speaking in tongues in that context. Tongues was a miraculous gift that had a specific purpose for a specific time. It was not, and never has been, the evidence of the reception of the Holy Spirit.


Note: I won't be back until day after tomorrow but I cannot wait to read your opinions on all of this.


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> There's nothing that indicates that this has changed. This still happens today. According to Acts 1:38-39, this promise was to them (and us) and our children... as many as the Lord shall call. 2000 years later, the Lord is still calling people to Him.


What I hear when people speak in tongues doesn't sound like actual languages, it's more often the repetition of the same syllables/words... Can't wait for the day when I'll witness that


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

There are many gifts that God make give us as Christians, including speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues, according to the Bible is speaking languages, not incomprehensible sounds/utterances.  It is the gift to speak languages that you have never learned, in order to spread the gospel.



> I Cor. 14:9 - 14
> So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
> 
> Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
> ...


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Galatians 5:22-23:
> --these scriptures speak to our CONDUCT, our behavior, lifestyle. Yes. This scripture does not negate or undo the scriptures about being filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. In fact, *it further establishes that a BELIEVER has to have the infilling of the Holy Spirit in order to PRODUCE these fruit*...especially with some degree of consistency. Even with the Holy Spirit, there are some tough days. But without the Holy Spirit? YIKES!!!! How much MORE FRUIT can I produce with the Holy Spirit helping me to STAY HOLY?!?? LOL!!!!
> 
> Matthew 7:20: same as above.


Ok then do we agree that speaking in tongues is not the ONLY way, the only evidence of someone being filled with the Spirit? Our conduct are evidence of that too right? Because you asked "How would we know that we are HOLY SPIRIT-FILLED believers without this EVIDENCE?"

I fail to understand how speaking in tongues would be the ONLY evidence of someone having God's Spirit


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

adequate said:


> So are you saying Christians that do not speak in tongues do not have the Holy Spirit or what is your understanding?
> 
> I know what I believe but just interested in learning from you all.


 
It is my understanding that speaking in tongues according to Acts 1:38 is available and accessible to those who claim Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior. As the Holy Spirit is our Comforter, Our manifestation of the Lord Jesus Christ to take His place after His Ascension following His earthly life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Acts 1)

Just as the 120 filled the upper room per the Lord's instruction that the Holy Spirit would come upon them, and would give them power...speaking as the Holy Spirit prompted them (Acts 2).

So before I would arbitrarily say that a person doesn't have the Holy Spirit if they don't speak in tongues, I would say it is a vital and necessary part of this Christian walk. There are too many scriptures that speak to the expectation that we are to speak in tongues, for both personal/private as well as public purposes. (1 Corinthians 14)

My personal story: I got baptized and I wanted to speak in tongues so much but it didn't happen right away but I continued to pray and believe the Lord and just like it happened to the 120 in that room, it happened to me one Sunday after service sitting in a car with my friends. We were sitting there and started praying quietly (some in English, some in tongues) and I closed my eyes and the Holy Spirit filled that car so thick and I opened my mouth and it was like I could not control my tongue anymore but these sounds came out with so much....

Speaking in our heavenly language is a way for us to pray to the Lord and the devil can't understand what we're praying....


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

adequate said:


> Speaking in tongues is not presented anywhere in the Bible as something Christians should expect when they receive Jesus Christ as their Savior and are therefore baptized in the Holy Spirit.. *In fact, out of all the conversion accounts in the New Testament, only two record speaking in tongues in that context.* Tongues was a miraculous gift that had a specific purpose for a specific time. It was not, and never has been, the evidence of the reception of the Holy Spirit.
> 
> 
> Note: I won't be back until day after tomorrow but I cannot wait to read your opinions on all of this.


 
Out of the mouth of TWO or more witnesses, so let the word be established: Matt 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> What I hear when people speak in tongues doesn't sound like actual languages, it's more often the repetition of the same syllables/words... Can't wait for the day when I'll witness that


 
No offense, but do you speak another language besides your native tongue? 

And speaking in one's heavenly language is just like a new baby learning how to talk. First they say one or two syllables and then their "vocabulary" grows.... I've heard the mature intercessors and their tongues sound like fluent tongues of other earthly languages. It's a beautiful thing.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> Ok then do we agree that speaking in tongues is not the ONLY way, the only evidence of someone being filled with the Spirit? Our conduct are evidence of that too right? Because you asked "How would we know that we are HOLY SPIRIT-FILLED believers without this EVIDENCE?"
> 
> I fail to understand how speaking in tongues would be the ONLY evidence of someone having God's Spirit


 
Maybe not "only", but a "significant" sign because speaking in tongues has a specific function.


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> What I hear when people speak in tongues doesn't sound like actual languages, it's more often the repetition of the same syllables/words... Can't wait for the day when I'll witness that



Here is a very informative site that addresses speaking in tongues as it is in the Bible. It explains the purpose..

http://www.speaking-in-tongues.org/index.html


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> No offense, but do you speak another language besides your native tongue?
> 
> And speaking in one's heavenly language is just like a new baby learning how to talk. First they say one or two syllables and then their "vocabulary" grows.... I've heard the mature intercessors and their tongues sound like fluent tongues of other earthly languages. It's a beautiful thing.


Yea to the first question and no offense taken 
What was the point of the question?

So RR do you agree that speaking in tongues is supposed to be actual existing languages?


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Maybe not "only", but a "significant" sign because speaking in tongues has a specific function.


How come there is an emphasis on speaking in tongues and none on the other gifts? It's my understading that ALL those gifts serve a specific function right?


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

divya said:


> Here is a very informative site that addresses speaking in tongues as it is in the Bible. It explains the purpose..
> 
> http://www.speaking-in-tongues.org/index.html


Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> Yea to the first question and no offense taken
> What was the point of the question?
> 
> So RR do you agree that speaking in tongues is supposed to be actual existing languages?


 
Good. The point of the question was to see if you were hearing actual syllables in a different language or were you hearing babble like a new baby speaking....

Per your second question, I think it's both. Sometimes it's existing languages and sometimes an entire new tongue altogether. The Sovereign Lord got it like that.


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## Keen (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> It's Acts 2:38:
> "37 When the Jews heard this, their hearts were troubled. They said to Peter and to the other missionaries, "Brothers, what should we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Be sorry for your sins and turn from them and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, *and your sins will be forgiven. You will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 This promise is to you and your children. It is to all people everywhere. It is to as many as the Lord our God will call."* (NLV)
> 
> 
> ...



So the gift of the holy spirit is speaking in tongue?


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> How come there is an emphasis on speaking in tongues and none on the other gifts? It's my understading that ALL those gifts serve a specific function right?


 
Maybe it depends on the context of the conversation. Tongues may seem to get all the attention because there is confusion between the Acts 2 explanation of tongues to EVERY BELIEVER versus the 1 Corinthians 14 manifestations of the Holy Spirit, of which one of the nine is gift of tongues.





*  Revelation Gifts* - gifts that reveal something 

*Word of Wisdom*
*Word of Knowledge*
*Discerning of Spirits*
*





  Power Gifts* - gifts that do something 

*Faith*
*Healings*
*Miracles*
*





  Inspiration Gifts* - gifts that say something 

*Prophecy*
*Diverse Tongues*
*Interpretation of Tongues*
 
Here's a link and it includes some wording re. your question about the fruit of the spirit: http://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/gifts/index.htm


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## kblc06 (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> Yea to the first question and no offense taken
> What was the point of the question?
> 
> So RR do you agree that speaking in tongues is supposed to be actual existing languages?



I know this question wasn't addressed to me, but I'll give my take. I believe tongues is a form of the universal language (the language that we once all shared).  From a linguistics perspective, it would be similar to "infant" tongue (all infants have the capacity to produce every occurring sound in human language). They also tend to lose this capacity as they age as well-but I think tongues are just a way of rediscovering what we once knew in a spiritual sense :wink2: , but I tend to think all spiritual discovery is a way of acquiring new knowledge about God and our world/universe.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

Keen said:


> So the gift of the holy spirit is speaking in tongue?


 
No (or not necessarily). Every good and perfect gift comes from above (James 1:17).

Gift = manifestation per the list in 1 Corinthians 14.


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

kblc06 said:


> I know this question wasn't addressed to me, but I'll give my take. I believe tongues is a form of the universal language (the language that we once all shared).  From a linguistics perspective, it would be similar to "infant" tongue (all infants have the capacity to produce every occurring sound in human language). They also tend to lose this capacity as they age as well-but I think tongues are just a way of rediscovering what we once knew in a spiritual sense :wink2: , but I tend to think all spiritual discovery is a way of acquiring new knowledge about God and our world/universe.



Do you have any scriptural references to support this?


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Good. The point of the question was to see if you were hearing actual syllables in a different language or were you hearing babble like a new baby speaking....
> 
> Per your second question, I think it's both. Sometimes it's existing languages and *sometimes an entire new tongue altogether*. The Sovereign Lord got it like that.


 
In an ealier post you said that speaking in tongues is a VITAL part of a believer's walk. May I know why it's a vital part of one's walk?

What purpose do speaking in tongues specifically serve in the Bible? If you could please answer me with specific scriptures I'd appreciate it (not because I'm trying to be argumentative lool, just trying to have reference points since I'm not that well versed in the topic)

If the puprpose of speaking in tongues is to edify the body and/or to spread God's Word and be able to minister to others in their own language, why would there be a need for a new language? 
That's why I'd like to know the original purpose of speaking in tongues


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

kblc06 said:


> I know this question wasn't addressed to me, but I'll give my take. I believe tongues is a form of the universal language (the language that we once all shared). From a linguistics perspective, it would be similar to "infant" tongue (all infants have the capacity to produce every occurring sound in human language). They also tend to lose this capacity as they age as well-but I think tongues are just a way of rediscovering what we once knew in a spiritual sense :wink2: , but I tend to think all spiritual discovery is a way of acquiring new knowledge about God and our world/universe.


But Acts portrays the believers speaking actual languages though


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Maybe it depends on the context of the conversation. *Tongues may seem to get all the attention because there is confusion between the Acts 2 explanation of tongues to EVERY BELIEVER versus the 1 Corinthians 14 manifestations of the Holy Spirit*, of which one of the nine is gift of tongues.


This is something else that I don't understand: what exactly is the difference between what occurs in Acts 2 and what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians?


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it



You're welcome.  I believe it will answer the questions that you are asking.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> In an ealier post you said that speaking in tongues is a VITAL part of a believer's walk. May I know why it's a vital part of one's walk?
> 
> 
> What purpose do speaking in tongues specifically serve in the Bible? If you could please answer me with specific scriptures I'd appreciate it (not because I'm trying to be argumentative lool, just trying to have reference points since I'm not that well versed in the topic)
> ...


 
I outlined several scriptures in previous posts....

Speaking in tongues is a vital part of our Christian walk because He helps in our prayers and to give us power and strength to live our personal lives (and bear fruit) and to minister to others.

I think it would be more efficient to refer you to this link as it addresses your questions succinctly. http://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/gifts/index.htm


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> This is something else that I don't understand: what exactly is the difference between what occurs in Acts 2 and what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians?


 
I kindly refer you to Post #2. I kinda feel like I'm repeating myself. I gave scriptures there.

I'll add here that the link between the two scripture references is that they both originate from the SAME HOLY SPIRIT....


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> This is something else that I don't understand: what exactly is the difference between what occurs in Acts 2 and what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians?



Actually, there is really no difference as far as this discussion is concerned. The purpose of speaking in tongues is for evangelism/ministry, which is why it means _languages_ that can be understood.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

divya said:


> Actually, there is really no difference as far as this discussion is concerned. The purpose of speaking in tongues is for evangelism/ministry, which is why it means _languages_ that can be understood.


 
There's also a personal purpose for speaking in tongues:

1 Corinthians 14:4
"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> There's also a personal purpose for speaking in tongues:
> 
> 1 Corinthians 14:4
> "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."



If we read the entire chapter in context, the Bible is not speaking favorably upon speaking a tongue that cannot be understood and/or edify others.

From 1 Corinthians 14...



> 4 - He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
> 
> 5 - I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
> 
> 6 - Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?





> 9 - *So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.*
> 
> 10 - There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
> 
> ...


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## Blessed2bless (Feb 11, 2008)

Amen....This is the Truth



adequate said:


> Two interesting passgages I read in regards to speaking in tongues:
> 
> The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. The apostles went out and shared the Gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages, “we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" (Acts 2:11). The Greek word translated "tongues" literally means "languages." Therefore, the gift of tongues is speaking in a language a person does not know in order to minister to someone who does speak that language. In 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14, where Paul discusses miraculous gifts, he comments that, “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?" (1 Corinthians 14:6). According to the Apostle Paul, and in agreement with the tongues described in Acts, speaking in tongues is valuable to the one hearing God’s message in his/her own language, but it is useless to everyone else – unless it is interpreted / translated.
> 
> ...


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

divya said:


> If we read the entire chapter in context, the Bible is not speaking favorably upon speaking a tongue that cannot be understood and/or edify others.


 
Yes, when one is gathered with other believers, e.g., a church service, not in one's personal/private time with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14

Verse 4: Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Verse 18: I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 

Verse 19: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 

Verse 23: If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Verse 26: How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Verse 27: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Verse 28: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Yes, when one is gathered with other believers, e.g., a church service, not in one's personal/private time with the Lord.
> 
> 1 Corinthians 14
> 
> ...



"Speaking in tongues" is for the purpose of the edification of others/for the ministry - that is the spiritual gift. That is why it is referred to when in the presence of others, both in Corinthians and in Acts.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

divya said:


> "Speaking in tongues" is for the purpose of the edification of others/for the ministry - that is the spiritual gift. That is why it is referred to when in the presence of others, both in Corinthians and in Acts.


 
It is also for personal edification....
1 Corinthians 14:4: "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."

The manifestation of the gift of tongues in 1 Corinthians 14 is usually accompanied by the interpretation of tongues. It is this PAIRING that serves to edify others. That's why the Bible says that if one is speaking in tongues in the presence of others and there is no interpreter, then that one should keep silent in the church (but still speak to himself and to God).

Verse 26: How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Verse 27: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Verse 28: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


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## kblc06 (Feb 11, 2008)

divya said:


> Do you have any scriptural references to support this?



 Not except that before the fall of the Tower of Babel & humans were dispersed and their tongues confused (I have to look up the exact passage), it appeared they spoke with the same tongue as referenced by the passage (I believe it takes place in the later part of Genesis or early Exodus in the KJV). 

But there are linguistic studies that demonstrate this property as well (human infants' capacity for reproducing all sound that occur in human language). As we grow accostumed to our native tongue, we lose this ability (as a neurons are pruned off-and others develop more rapidly) to increase our fluency in our home language. We also lose the ability to discern distinct *phonemes* as we develop fluency in our native language (in a monolingual child).  This limits adult's plasticity for learning, especially language and its also why if you introduce a child to multiple languages early on, they maintain their ability to produce certain sounds of various languages and easily distinguish them. If children were never exposed to a language, but had human interaction, they would for some type of language as a form of communication to understand one another-this is how creoles, and pidgins (combination of language structures) form.

I have tons of info & articles that I can pm you from my Brain & Cognitive Sci. 172 course (currently taking) 

Note: (*phonemes-examples: p, pa, pha, enunciations that occur in Thai & English but produce slight variations in articulation indistinguishable to adult speakers of English)


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

kblc06 said:


> Not except that before the fall of the Tower of Babel & humans were dispersed and their tongues confused (I have to look up the exact passage), it appeared they spoke with the same tongue as referenced by the passage (I believe it takes place in the later part of Genesis or early Exodus in the KJV).
> 
> But there are linguistic studies that demonstrate this property as well (human infants' capacity for reproducing all sound that occur in human language). As we grow accostumed to our native tongue, we lose this ability (as a neurons are pruned off-and others develop more rapidly) to increase our fluency in our home language. We also lose the ability to discern distinct *phonemes* as we develop fluency in our native language (in a monolingual child).  This limits adult's plasticity for learning, especially language and its also why if you introduce a child to multiple languages early on, they maintain their ability to produce certain sounds of various languages and easily distinguish them. If children were never exposed to a language, but had human interaction, they would for some type of language as a form of communication to understand one another-this is how creoles, and pidgins (combination of language structures) form.
> 
> ...



Thanks for responding. The Tower of Babel dealt with different languages as well.  I appreciate the information regarding linguistics and do agree to a large extent. I honestly would like to have Biblical support as it relates to the speaking of tongues. Anything in science must be in accordance with Scripture, as God is the creator of it all.


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## MindTwister (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> I outlined several scriptures in previous posts....
> 
> *Speaking in tongues is a vital part of our Christian walk because He helps in our prayers and to give us power and strength to live our personal lives (and bear fruit) and to minister to others.*
> 
> I think it would be more efficient to refer you to this link as it addresses your questions succinctly. http://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/gifts/index.htm


Thanks for your answer. 
I have read the scriptures you quoted in your second post in this thread and read the link you gave me
After all the reading, my understanding is that in the end all the gifts of the Spirit are vital. 

Still don't see the difference between Acts 2 and 1 Corinthians 12-14. I read and re-read the scriptures you gave (Acts 2:38 and 1 Corinthians 12:4-11) and neither enlightens as to that difference I have a headache trying to figure it out loool. 
Acts 2:38 says that one who repents and is baptized receives God's gift of the Holy Spirit 
1 Corinthians 12:4-7 tells me different gifts are given to different people but all by the work of God's Holy Spirit

Unless I'm not understanding these 2 scriptures right, I still do not get how the occurence in Acts 2 is different from what is spoken of 1 Corinthians

And RR I'm not being difficult or trying to be argumentative as I said, loool I'm seriously not understanding how to get the response to my questions to the scriptures you gave or from the link you gave (which to me just basically explain the what, why and how of spiritual gifts and doesn't contrast Acts 2 to 1 Corinthians). Sorry also if you feel like you've been repeating yourself

ETD: I deleted the first sentence because I realized after reading that I understand how edifying ourselves relates to strengthening ourselves and bearing fruits


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> Thanks for your answer. That said I don't get how speaking in tongues specifically helps live our personal lives and bear fruits. I though the Holy Spirit did that, not the tongues which from the scriptures I read are for the edification of the body and our own.
> I have read the scriptures you quoted in your second post in this thread and read the link you gave me
> After all the reading, my understanding is that in the end all the gifts of the Spirit are vital.
> 
> ...


 
Our exchange is part of learning and getting insight. I'm learning and getting more understanding as we share and unpack this together.

I believe the distinction betwen Acts 2 and 1 Corinthians 14 is this:

Acts 2 shows us that the Holy Spirit imparts Himself into every believer (who chooses to receive Him) and for the Holy Spirit to help us in our daily Christian walk...our personal edification. 1 Corinthians 14:4: "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."

1 Corinthians 14 are NINE SPECIFIC MANIFESTATIONS of the Holy Spirit (ONE being "gift of tongues") that comes forth to bring REVELATION. Note that the RIGHT AFTER the "gift of tongues" in this passage is mentioned, "interpretation of tongues" is there, because these two manifestations work TOGETHER.

The manifestation of the gift of tongues in 1 Corinthians 14 is usually accompanied by the interpretation of tongues. It is this PAIRING that serves to edify others. That's why the Bible says that if one is speaking in tongues in the presence of others and there is no interpreter, then that one should keep silent in the church (but still speak to himself and to God).

Verse 26: How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Verse 27: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Verse 28: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


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## Southernbella. (Feb 11, 2008)

I found an old post of mine on this subject. 

_The gift of tongues is but ONE gift given by the Holy Spirit.

*1 Corinthians 12:4-12 *


*4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. *

*7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. *
*12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ.*

Not everyone receives the same gifts. Also, Paul doesn't consider tongues to be the most important gift:

*1 Corinthians 14:14-19 *


*14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand[a] say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified. *
*18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.*

See also:

*1 Corinthians 14:5*

*5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[a] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[b] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.*_


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> It is also for personal edification....
> 1 Corinthians 14:4
> "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."
> 
> ...



The main focus of 1 Corinthians 14 is others. The Scripture here is dealing overall with the purpose of speaking in tongues being for edification of others/ministry/prophecy. Specifically, it deals with what the purposes served for believers and for unbelievers. These tongues are clearly discernible languages...



> 22 - *Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.*
> 
> 23 - If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
> 
> ...






> 9 - So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
> 
> 10 - There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
> 
> ...


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## divya (Feb 11, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> I have read the scriptures you quoted in your second post in this thread and read the link you gave me
> After all the reading, my understanding is that in the end all the gifts of the Spirit are vital.
> 
> ...



Exactly! 


1 Corinthians 12:4 - 13

4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


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## PaperClip (Feb 12, 2008)

divya said:


> The main focus of 1 Corinthians 14 is others. The Scripture here is dealing overall with the purpose of speaking in tongues being for edification of others/ministry/prophecy. Specifically, it deals with what the purposes served for believers and for unbelievers. These tongues are clearly discernible languages...


 
I concur with your point that 1 Corinthians 14 focuses on the edification of others. This point does not negate 1 Corinthians 14:4: *"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself...."*

Also, Paul said in verse 18 of the same chapter: *"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all".* So he spoke in tongues more than anyone else. There were times when he was ALONE and he was STILL speaking in tongues... he was EDIFYING HIMSELF.

Romans 8:26 "*Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought*: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Mark 16:17: And these *signs will follow those who believe*: In My name they will cast out demons; *they will speak with new tongues;* 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

Jude 20: But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, *praying in the Holy Ghost, *

John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship *in spirit* and truth.

Isaiah 28:11 For with *stammering lips and another tongue* He will speak to this people


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## divya (Feb 12, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> I concur with your point that 1 Corinthians 14 focuses on the edification of others. This point does not negate 1 Corinthians 14:4: *"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself...."*
> 
> Also, Paul said in verse 18 of the same chapter: *"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all".* So he spoke in tongues more than anyone else. There were times when he was ALONE and he was STILL speaking in tongues... he was EDIFYING HIMSELF.
> 
> ...



All of these verses that are pulled out have specific meanings within the chapters they are in, and are not necessarily related to the topic at hand simply because of the mention of the Holy Spirit.  

I have to turn in, but I will discuss those verses tomorrow...


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## Farida (Feb 12, 2008)

You know, this is the speaking of tongues that I know of:
where one person speaks one language, but several people, who speak several distinct language, all hear the one language as sounding like their own. So the Mandarin, Spanish and Slavic language-speakers would all hear and understand at the same time.
*Acts 2:6 (New International Version) 
*

*When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.*


The other mentions I recall  (1 corinthians) are said to be translated as also "in other languages." So I do not believe the context is the same.


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## Mocha5 (Feb 12, 2008)

divya said:


> All of these verses that are pulled out have specific meanings within the chapters they are in, and are not necessarily related to the topic at hand simply because of the mention of the Holy Spirit.
> 
> I have to turn in, but I will discuss those verses tomorrow...


 

They all speak to tongues being used to edify oneself.  There is a tongue to edify others and there is a tongue that you use in prayer to edify and strengthen yourself which I call a heavenly language.  A language where your spirit is speaking to God.  Spirit knows spirit.  Remember the spirit is what's born again. The spirit is pure.  That's why we are called to be led by the spirit.

While praying in tongues, the only thing that is active is your spirit. All those who are born again have the capability of using this prayer language. RR quoted Romans 8:26.  I'll translate it in NLT:

*And the Holy Spirit helps us in our distress.  For we don't even know what we should pray.  But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words.  And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God's own will. And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose for them. Romans 8: 26-28*


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## divya (Feb 12, 2008)

vivmaiko said:


> You know, this is the speaking of tongues that I know of:
> where one person speaks one language, but several people, who speak several distinct language, all hear the one language as sounding like their own. So the Mandarin, Spanish and Slavic language-speakers would all hear and understand at the same time.
> *Acts 2:6 (New International Version)
> *
> ...



Amen! Thank you!


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## divya (Feb 12, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> They all speak to tongues being used to edify oneself.  There is a tongue to edify others and there is a tongue that you use in prayer to edify and strengthen yourself which *I *call a heavenly language.  A language where your spirit is speaking to God.  Spirit knows spirit.  Remember the spirit is what's born again. The spirit is pure.  That's why we are called to be led by the spirit.
> 
> While praying in tongues, the only thing that is active is your spirit. All those who are born again have the capability of using this prayer language. RR quoted Romans 8:26.  I'll translate it in NLT:
> 
> *And the Holy Spirit helps us in our distress.  For we don't even know what we should pray.  But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words.  And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God's own will. And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose for them. Romans 8: 26-28*



You make call it a heavenly language, but does the Bible? 

The verse does not talk about there being an existing prayer language that is indiscernible and solely to edify self.  We must look to the message of the chapter rather than selecting one verse to attempt to explain something else. The Bible must be understood in context.

Romans 8
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans 8&version=9;

I'm in class but I'll be back...


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## Mocha5 (Feb 12, 2008)

divya said:


> You make call it a heavenly language, but does the Bible?
> 
> *No, the Bibe refers to it as groanings.  Some people refer to it as tongues. *
> 
> ...


 
*Thanks for the dialogue.  *


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## Southernbella. (Feb 12, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> *Thanks for the dialogue. *


 
I'm confused about Verse 26. It says that the Holy Spirit makes intercession with groanings that cannot be uttered. How does that translate to us praying in a "heavenly language"? If anything, it appears to me that the Holy Spirit is doing the praying on our behalf. Also, if the groanings cannot be uttered, that means that we can't actually be saying/uttering anything, right?


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## Mocha5 (Feb 12, 2008)

_Oooh, good point, Lauren. The NLT translates it as groanings that cannot be expressed in words. The two definitions of utter are 1) to send forth in sound or 2) to express in words. Those who have actually had this experience would go with the second definition. Those who have not would probably go with the first definition. I think it is a matter of how the Holy Spirit has flowed through each of us personally._


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## klb120475 (Feb 12, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> Oooh, good point, Lauren. The NLT translates it as groanings that cannot be expressed in words. The two definitions of utter are 1) to send forth in sound or 2) to express in words. Those who have actually had this experience would go with the second definition. Those who have not would probably go with the first definition. I think it is a matter of how the Holy Spirit has flowed through each of us personally.


 
Well said.


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## Southernbella. (Feb 12, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> _Oooh, good point, Lauren. The NLT translates it as groanings that cannot be expressed in words. The two definitions of utter are 1) to send forth in sound or 2) to express in words. Those who have actually had this experience would go with the second definition. Those who have not would probably go with the first definition. I think it is a matter of how the Holy Spirit has flowed through each of us personally._


 
OK, that makes sense. I don't think you have to have experienced it to get that. I've felt the Spirit on me, but I couldn't begin to tell you what happened at the time. I know I didn't babble though.

So these are two different things then. Groanings done by the Holy Spirit on our behalf and speaking in tongues, I mean. Because the Bible is very clear about tongues being interpreted.


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## Mocha5 (Feb 12, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> OK, that makes sense. I don't think you have to have experienced it to get that. I've felt the Spirit on me, but I couldn't begin to tell you what happened at the time. I know I didn't babble though.
> 
> *I just meant that it would be easier to understand it if you have actually experienced it.  If you have never felt the Holy Spirit in this way then it would be hard to relate.  Although, since I've been born again I don't negate others' experiences.  Before I was born again is another story though.  But I've felt the Holy Spirit on me in many different ways.  I guess He do how he do. I'm looking forward to new experiences. *
> 
> So these are two different things then. Groanings done by the Holy Spirit on our behalf and speaking in tongues, I mean. Because the Bible is very clear about tongues being interpreted.


 
*Yeah.  Definitely different.  I added my post because people also refer to the groanings as tongues. *


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## MindTwister (Feb 12, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> *Yeah. Definitely different. I added my post because people also refer to the groanings as tongues. *


But is it Biblical to use the two words interchangeably?

I guess that's what brings out the confusion when the topics of tongues comes up


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## Mocha5 (Feb 12, 2008)

MindTwister said:


> But is it Biblical to use the two words interchangeably?
> 
> I guess that's what brings out the confusion when the topics of tongues comes up


 

Well, I would think that praying in the Spirit could also be known as an unknown tongue; thereby, making it interchangeable especially if you correlate this to the same kind of prayer that Paul was speaking of.  And now that I think about it further, maybe they aren't different.  I guess it would depend on rather or not your prayer (the groanings) could be interpreted.  Another interesting point.


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## PaperClip (Feb 12, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> Well, I would think that praying in the Spirit could also be known as an unknown tongue; thereby, making it interchangeable especially if you correlate this to the same kind of prayer that Paul was speaking of. And now that I think about it further, maybe they aren't different. I guess it would depend on rather or not your prayer (the groanings) could be interpreted. Another interesting point.


 
What's so amazing and perfect about the Lord Jesus Christ is that He lets NOTHING go without meaning. I have seen the gift and interpretation of tongues done in action and I've experienced the "groanings" out of my mouth be interpreted. In other words, it wasn't "just" a moan. There was an expression in that groan that had a meaning that I didn't have the fullness of but the Lord fully understood... and the interpreter (a real person used by the Holy Spirit) said what my tongues were saying. I tell you, it was an amazing thing in the Holy Spirit. The person wasn't simply "guessing" when she was interpreting my tongues. There were some intimate things and sentiments of my heart being expressed and exposed. It wasn't embarrassing. It was edifying, exhorting, and comforting....

I thought there was a scripture where a person could ask for an interpretation of their tongue....


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## Mocha5 (Feb 12, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> What's so amazing and perfect about the Lord Jesus Christ is that He lets NOTHING go without meaning. I have seen the gift and interpretation of tongues done in action and I've experienced the "groanings" out of my mouth be interpreted. In other words, it wasn't "just" a moan. There was an expression in that groan that had a meaning that I didn't have the fullness of but the Lord fully understood... and the interpreter (a real person used by the Holy Spirit) said what my tongues were saying. I tell you, it was an amazing thing in the Holy Spirit. The person wasn't simply "guessing" when she was interpreting my tongues. There were some intimate things and sentiments of my heart being expressed and exposed. It wasn't embarrassing. It was edifying, exhorting, and comforting....
> 
> I thought there was a scripture where a person could ask for an interpretation of their tongue....


 
Wow! Well there you have it!  This is what I meant by being able to draw from your own experiences.  Somethings you just can't answer unless you've lived it.  And even then certain people won't believe it.  The Bible can not be intellectualized and it clearly states that we will not understand everything.  On another note: He/she was all in your business, huh?


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## klb120475 (Feb 12, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> Wow! Well there you have it! This is what I meant by being able to draw from your own experiences. Somethings you just can't answer unless you've lived it. And even then certain people won't believe it. The Bible can not be intellectualized and it clearly states that we will not understand everything. On another note: *He/she was all in your business, huh?*


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## PaperClip (Feb 12, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> Wow! Well there you have it! This is what I meant by being able to draw from your own experiences. Somethings you just can't answer unless you've lived it. And even then certain people won't believe it. The Bible can not be intellectualized and it clearly states that we will not understand everything. On another note: He/she was all in your business, huh?


 
See, that's the thing.... prophecy gets into the "business"
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.... interpretation of tongues gets into your spirit FOR REAL.... To this day I STILL say the words that were interpreted.... that experience was over 15 years ago....

We were praying in the Holy Spirit in a group (me, my cousin, my cousin's college roommate) in my cousin's room at my grandmother's house. Then it was quiet and I was the only one praying... then I stopped... then my cousin's roommate (who has this gift) offered a word for every single sound that came out of my mouth: "I am weak, I am willing, please show me the way". and I tell you that was the deeper than the deepest sentiment of my heart...that's how I did feel then and still feel now about my salvation and purpose that the Lord has for me to do here.


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## Hamilton (Feb 12, 2008)

Thank you for your question; it is really interesting. In the past, I have heard people say the same thing; "not speaking in tongues indicates that you do not have the Holy Spirit". I will agree that speaking in tongues is a gift and is avialable to all. My husband and I have been Christians since the summer of 2000. Accepting Christ into our hearts and making Him the center of our marriage is what has not only kept together but has allow us to have a continuous honeymoon even 8 years later. My husband does have the gift of tongues; however, while I do have other gifts I don't have the gift of tongues. However, without the guidance of the Holy Spirit we would not be able to live the way we do. And I will also agree with one of the other comments that the Holy Spirit is necessary for manifesting the fruit of the spirit and is also essential for us to be able to live the quality of life that God intends for us to live. God's Word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit is my life line and I could not live without Him.


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## Beauty4Ashes (Feb 13, 2008)

Forgive me but, I do not have my Bible in front of me so I cannot give exact references...

The gifts of the Holy Spirit talked about in 1 Cor., discussed the gift of tongues as "Divers Kinds of Tongues", meaning more than one.  The gift is to have many kinds of tongues.

Also, Paul mentioned that he spoke with the tongues of Angels and the tongues of men. Do you know how tongues of Angels sounds?  Me neither, so I'm sure it would sound like Babble since we've never heard it before.  The tongues of men would be earthly languages...

Anywho, gotta run my battery is dying...


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## divya (Feb 13, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> No, the Bibe refers to it as groanings. Some people refer to it as tongues.
> 
> This is exactly what I interpret this scripture to mean:
> 
> ...



OK, I'm going to number my responses because I believe there are a number of issues here...

1.  If the Bible refers to it as groanings then isn't that what it is? If it had to do with tongues, would the Bible not state it as it uses the term tongues on many instances? So again, is the verse really discussing "speaking in tongues"?

2. Regarding the verse, it is the SPIRIT who makes the groanings, not us. So how is it that people interpret the verses to say that we are groaning?  Notice that Spirit in that verse is capitalized, so that we are talking about the Holy Spirit's actions.  His groanings to the Father on our behalf of us, for our salvation are indiscernible to us.  The verse it not discussing speaking of tongues at all.

3. The entire message of the chapter is speaking about us following the lead of the Spirit and role of the Holy Spirit.  In verse 26, the Holy Spirit is interceding on our behalf. The chapter is not talking about speaking in tongues. Further, as you have noted, "perfected prayer" is not in the Bible so where is it coming from? The Lord already taught us how to pray in Luke 11. Who are we to determine what is perfected? Who are we to adopt a form of praying that "we" believe is appropriate when the Bible has given us instruction.


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## divya (Feb 13, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> Well, I would think that praying in the Spirit could also be known as an unknown tongue; thereby, making it interchangeable especially if you correlate this to the same kind of prayer that Paul was speaking of.  And now that I think about it further, maybe they aren't different.  I guess it would depend on rather or not your prayer (the groanings) could be interpreted.  Another interesting point.



But the verse is not speaking about our prayer, the verse is speaking about the Holy Spirit. 



> 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but *the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.*



We cannot intercede on our own behalf, but the Spirit can! The Bible is talking about the fact that the Spirit is active in our salvation.  That's why the verse first states the the Spirit helps our infirmities - its talking about our sinful nature.  It's not that we do not know how to pray but as sinful beings there are many other things that tempt us and where we are often let to fall.

So when it says the the Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings that cannot be uttered, it means that the Spirit is prays, appeals to God on our behalf for issues that we may not recognize that we need to pray for.

So the verse is not about speaking in tongues...nor is the chapter.


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## Sui Topi (Feb 13, 2008)

I remember my pastor at a pentecostal church I went to as a little girl would "speak in tongues". He would just ramble on with incoherent syllables. Now that I look back on it....it kinda makes me feel scared for him because what I now understand through scripture as speaking in tongues is as some of you have said, when someone can get the message across regardless of language barriers to a group of various dialects. A chinese person and a russian can understand at the same time. Its a tool used to spread the gospel. Not something personal that you do in your bedroom. The reason I am concerned for my pastor is since that was not the Holy Spirt driving him to speak in tongues (because I surely did not understand the message he was conveying) who's was it? He really was acting like someone who was being toyed with by a demonic spirit. Even in Borat when he went to that church and people were running up and down the church and screaming and throwing themselves all over the place.... we should be reverant when we are in His presence... not acting like chickens with their heads cut off. I really can't imagine the heavenly angels carrying themselves like that... its so disorderly.. it doesn't reflect His character at all. Impulsive and wild like... people need to be careful of who's spirit they are allowing to move their heart.


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## Ramya (Feb 13, 2008)

Speaking strictly from personal experience:

I never heard about praying and or speaking in tongues until a year ago. I heard everybody around me praying in distinct languages (some with great vocabularies and others just a few words). It frightened me b/c the Holy Spirit was sooo thick in there it felt like I was going to faint! Later on someone with the gift of diverse tongues spoke a word and I understood it. It sounded like plain English to me! I thought I was nuts! 

In October of last year, I was baptized with the Holy Spirit and right away I began to pray in tongues. My best friend did not get her "language" until later in the week but she believed that God would give her the gift of tongues and she received. 

4 months later I can interpret tongues and I get word from the Lord through tongues (which are interpreted) in order to edify my church. I pray in tongues everyday after I've prayed everything that I can think of naturally. Praying in tongues is not an excuse to not pray naturally. At first I would repeat the same sounds and words but now it has become a constant flow and I can pray for hours but it took lots of time to build up my vocabulary just like a child learning to talk.

I won't say that a person doesn't have the Holy Spirit if they can't speak in tongues but it is a gift that is available to all believers and I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want it


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## PaperClip (Feb 13, 2008)

Sui Topi said:


> I remember my pastor at a pentecostal church I went to as a little girl would "speak in tongues". He would just ramble on with incoherent syllables. Now that I look back on it....it kinda makes me feel scared for him because what I now understand through scripture as speaking in tongues is as some of you have said, when someone can get the message across regardless of language barriers to a group of various dialects. A chinese person and a russian can understand at the same time. Its a tool used to spread the gospel. Not something personal that you do in your bedroom. The reason I am concerned for my pastor is since that was not the Holy Spirt driving him to speak in tongues (because I surely did not understand the message he was conveying) who's was it? He really was acting like someone who was being toyed with by a demonic spirit. Even in Borat when he went to that church and people were running up and down the church and screaming and throwing themselves all over the place.... we should be reverant when we are in His presence... not acting like chickens with their heads cut off. I really can't imagine the heavenly angels carrying themselves like that... its so disorderly.. it doesn't reflect His character at all. Impulsive and wild like... people need to be careful of who's spirit they are allowing to move their heart.


 
This is a disturbing post to me. I pray and speak in tongues and it is not demonic. It is of the Holy Spirit. When I pray and I not act "wild like". Maybe in the case of your pastor it is a question of self-control. There is also a place to be celebratory and excited and jumping up and down in praise as one is praying with understanding or in the Holy Spirit.

I will say that because the devil is a master deceiver, he tries to mimic tongues. I've seen that, too. That's why we have the gift of discernment to know the truth of a matter.

I'll leave it at that.


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## Mocha5 (Feb 13, 2008)

divya said:


> OK, I'm going to number my responses because I believe there are a number of issues here...
> 
> 1. If the Bible refers to it as groanings then isn't that what it is? If it had to do with tongues, would the Bible not state it as it uses the term tongues on many instances? So again, is the verse really discussing "speaking in tongues"?
> 
> ...


 
When I think "Praying in the Spirit" which in my opinion is what Romans 8:26 is speaking of I automatically think "tongues."  And since the Holy Spirit gives the gift I have interchanged them.  Now is that right? Maybe.  Maybe not.  I have some books that acknowledge Romans 8:26 as speaking in tongues while others do not.  At the end of the day, I can only go by the leadings of the Spirit (which we agree is the way that Chapter 8 instructs) and my experiences.  

I think we all know that Jesus instructed us how to pray.  However, this was before his crucifiction and acension.  Am I negating it? No. But it is still prayer in the flesh.  And there is nothing perfect about the flesh.  Only the Spirit of God knows the thoughts of God and He is the only one who can pray in perfection through us which results in tongues and/or groanings (if you prefer) which is available and accessible to all those who are born again.


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## divya (Feb 13, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> When I think "Praying in the Spirit" which in my opinion is what Romans 8:26 is speaking of I automatically think "tongues."  And since the Holy Spirit gives the gift I have interchanged them.  Now is that right? Maybe.  Maybe not.  I have some books that acknowledge Romans 8:26 as speaking in tongues while others do not.  At the end of the day, I can only go by the leadings of the Spirit (which we agree is the way that Chapter 8 instructs) and my experiences.
> 
> I think we all know that Jesus instructed us how to pray.  However, this was before his crucifiction and acension.  Am I negating it? No. But it is still prayer in the flesh.  And there is nothing perfect about the flesh.  Only the Spirit of God knows the thoughts of God and He is the only one who can pray in perfection through us which results in tongues and/or groanings (if you prefer) which is available and accessible to all those who are born again.



Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree because I truly believe that the verse and chapter are speaking about the role of the Holy Spirit in general, not about speaking in tongues.  Further, my understanding of speaking in tongues in the Bible is different languages for the purpose of evangelism.


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## divya (Feb 13, 2008)

Sui Topi said:


> I remember my pastor at a pentecostal church I went to as a little girl would "speak in tongues". He would just ramble on with incoherent syllables. Now that I look back on it....it kinda makes me feel scared for him because what I now understand through scripture as speaking in tongues is as some of you have said, when someone can get the message across regardless of language barriers to a group of various dialects. A chinese person and a russian can understand at the same time. Its a tool used to spread the gospel. Not something personal that you do in your bedroom. The reason I am concerned for my pastor is since that was not the Holy Spirt driving him to speak in tongues (because I surely did not understand the message he was conveying) who's was it? He really was acting like someone who was being toyed with by a demonic spirit. Even in Borat when he went to that church and people were running up and down the church and screaming and throwing themselves all over the place.... we should be reverant when we are in His presence... not acting like chickens with their heads cut off. I really can't imagine the heavenly angels carrying themselves like that... its so disorderly.. it doesn't reflect His character at all. Impulsive and wild like... people need to be careful of who's spirit they are allowing to move their heart.



I agree with you completely.  Honestly, the situation that you are describing like what occurs when those who practice certain African Orisha religions supposedly become possessed with ancestral spirits. It is a remnant of the religion that some of our ancestors, and in some cases, that our current relatives practice. Take the church person who behaves like that outside of the church and put them in a room with a Shango practicer and you will not be able to tell the difference when they catch the spirit...the incomprehensible speech down to the uncontrollable movements. We must as Christians test the spirit...


P.S. I am speaking as someone who has relatives who practiced and still practice Orisha worship and seeing what goes on in many churches. Neither is it meant as any disrespect to my ancestors or family who practice Orisha worship, nor to fellow Christians. It is an issue of great concern.

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx1ys2o9TKY*


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## Sui Topi (Feb 13, 2008)

divya said:


> I agree with you completely.  Honestly, the situation that you are describing like what occurs when those who practice certain African Orisha religions supposedly become possessed with ancestral spirits. It is a remnant of the religion that some of our ancestors, and in some cases, that our current relatives practice. Take the church person who behaves like that outside of the church and put them in a room with a Shango practicer and you will not be able to tell the difference when they catch the spirit...the incomprehensible speech down to the uncontrollable movements. We must as Christians test the spirit...
> 
> 
> P.S. I am speaking as someone who has relatives who practiced and still practice Orisha worship and seeing what goes on in many churches. Neither is it meant as any disrespect to my ancestors or family who practice Orisha worship, nor to fellow Christians. It is an issue of great concern.
> ...



Thats for real Divya...like...can you imagine angels acting like this? How does this represent God's character? I mean, we should be happy and feel joyful in the Lord, but acting like that is not legit


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## TrustMeLove (Feb 13, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Speaking strictly from personal experience:
> 
> I never heard about praying and or speaking in tongues until a year ago. I heard everybody around me praying in distinct languages (some with great vocabularies and others just a few words). It frightened me b/c the Holy Spirit was sooo thick in there it felt like I was going to faint! Later on someone with the gift of diverse tongues spoke a word and I understood it. It sounded like plain English to me! I thought I was nuts!
> 
> ...




I don't/didn't want it. I asked for other things and for the gifts I already had to be increased. Oh..be careful what you ask for..Because with the gift comes great responsibility. Now I wonder if I should have asked just to speak in tongues. That seems much easier to live with than what I am going through.


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## divya (Feb 14, 2008)

Sui Topi said:


> Thats for real Divya...like...can you imagine angels acting like this? How does this represent God's character? I mean, we should be happy and feel joyful in the Lord, but acting like that is not legit



Exactly. The end of this video is the best - when they list out the fruits of the Spirit and then in big letters - "SELF CONTROL"! 

If you have no control of what it happening, it is NOT the Holy Spirit.  The Bible is clear.


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## babydollhair (Feb 18, 2008)

i have not read the whole post but it my understanding that speaking in tongues, may not actually be a language that any man can comprehend.


*Scripture: 1 corinthians 14:2

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries *


So based on scripture it seems that one can speak to God where only God understands...


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## Sui Topi (Feb 18, 2008)

I found this to be very interesting...its an exert from an Ellen G White book.


Chap. 146 - Fanaticism and Tongues Speaking

The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor. 14:32, 33. 

_
     A spirit of fanaticism has ruled a certain class of Sabbathkeepers. . . . They have sipped but lightly at the fountain of truth and are unacquainted with the spirit of the message of the third angel. Nothing can be done for this class until their fanatical views are corrected. . . . {Mar 154.1}

     Some of these persons have exercises which they call gifts and say that the Lord has placed them in the church. They have an unmeaning gibberish which they call the unknown tongue, which is unknown not only by man but by the Lord and all heaven. Such gifts are manufactured by men and women, aided by the great deceiver. Fanaticism, false excitement, false talking in tongues, and noisy exercises have been considered gifts which God has placed in the Church. Some have been deceived here. The fruits of all this have not been good. . . . {Mar 154.2}

     There are many restless spirits who will not submit to discipline, system, and order. They think that their liberties would be abridged were they to lay aside their own judgment and submit to the judgment of those of experience. The work of God will not progress unless there is a disposition to submit to order and expel the reckless, disorderly spirit of fanaticism from their meetings. Impressions and feelings are no sure evidence that a person is led by the Lord. Satan will, if he is unsuspected, give feelings and impressions. These are not safe guides. All should thoroughly acquaint themselves with the evidences of our faith, and the great study should be how they can adorn their profession and bear fruit to the glory of God. . . . A trifling, joking, reckless spirit should be rebuked. It is no evidence of the grace of God upon the heart for persons to talk and pray with talent in meeting, and then give up to a rough, careless manner of talking and acting when out of meeting. . . . {Mar 154.3}

     The truth of God will never degrade, but will elevate the receiver, refine his taste, sanctify his judgment, and perfect him for the company of the pure and holy angels in the kingdom of God. {Mar 154.4}

_





 I feel like we're all going to have to agree to disagree until the day comes when we'll find out. As christians, we should be always trying to analyze our acts versus the bible and make sure we're following things correctly. It's sad that we can be so stubborn and hold on to our ways regardless of what someone may present to you with bible truths. It's like we get offended and want to defend our earthly traditions when instead we should check with the Lord if it's right and then proceed to make a decision. Jesus is our example. When He was in the Tabernacle he would say the truths that he had to say and he would sit down. There was no confusion and screaming...and he was always worshiping and praising God with a joyful spirit. Thats the example I'm going to follow, not one from my imperfect brothers and sisters.


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## CandiceC (Feb 29, 2008)

amerikan said:


> Speaking strictly from personal experience:
> 
> I never heard about praying and or speaking in tongues until a year ago. I heard everybody around me praying in distinct languages (some with great vocabularies and others just a few words). It frightened me b/c the Holy Spirit was sooo thick in there it felt like I was going to faint! Later on someone with the gift of diverse tongues spoke a word and I understood it. It sounded like plain English to me! I thought I was nuts!
> 
> ...


 

I agree with the bolded!!! I used to be scared of speaking in tongues, but the Lord softened my heart, humbled me and I prayed in tongues for the first time early this morning before I went to bed.  It was wonderful to let the Holy Spirit take over. I still feel stirred up about it! I know if it happened for me, it can happen for anybody that wants to receive it!

Thanks for sharing your experience. I noticed I was saying a couple of the same phrases over and over again. At one point something- a phrase?- came out of my mouth super fast. (Faster than I could ever say naturally.) It was totally different than I had heard previously. I'm so glad to know the vocabulary will grow!

I was wondering about continuing to pray naturally daily. I will continue to do so and then pray in tongues.


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## PaperClip (Feb 29, 2008)

CandiceC said:


> I agree with the bolded!!! I used to be scared of speaking in tongues, but the Lord softened my heart, humbled me and I prayed in tongues for the first time early this morning before I went to bed.  It was wonderful to let the Holy Spirit take over. I still feel stirred up about it! I know if it happened for me, it can happen for anybody that wants to receive it!
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience. I noticed I was saying a couple of the same phrases over and over again. At one point something- a phrase?- came out of my mouth super fast. (Faster than I could ever say naturally.) It was totally different than I had heard previously. I'm so glad to know the vocabulary will grow!
> 
> I was wondering about continuing to pray naturally daily. I will continue to do so and then pray in tongues.


 
Amen! Hallelujah! Don't worry about order...just let the Holy Spirit flow... as your vocabulary expands, you will do both (pray in the spirit and pray with understanding)...sometimes seemingly simultaneously....

Please, if you would be so kind, share a bit more about feeling "stirred" up....


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## Mocha5 (Feb 29, 2008)

CandiceC said:


> I agree with the bolded!!! I used to be scared of speaking in tongues, but the Lord softened my heart, humbled me and *I prayed in tongues for the first time early this morning before I went to bed.*  It was wonderful to let the Holy Spirit take over. I still feel stirred up about it! I know if it happened for me, it can happen for anybody that wants to receive it!
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience. I noticed I was saying a couple of the same phrases over and over again. At one point something- a phrase?- came out of my mouth super fast. (Faster than I could ever say naturally.) It was totally different than I had heard previously. I'm so glad to know the vocabulary will grow!
> 
> I was wondering about continuing to pray naturally daily. I will continue to do so and then pray in tongues.


 
I'm sooo happy and excited for you!


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## CandiceC (Feb 29, 2008)

RelaxerRehab said:


> Amen! Hallelujah! Don't worry about order...just let the Holy Spirit flow... as your vocabulary expands, you will do both (pray in the spirit and pray with understanding)...sometimes seemingly simultaneously....
> 
> Please, if you would be so kind, share a bit more about feeling "stirred" up....


 
I was praying in my mind while this was happening. Is this what you mean by pray with understanding? I couldn't believe it. Well I could believe it, but I was still amazed. Lol. I was praying and thanking the Lord and at the same time these phrases were flowing out of my mouth.

I just feel really happy on the inside. (This is in spite of being told some bad news earlier in the natural. All I can say is the devil is a liar.) I feel like I could just get up and jump at my desk or run around the room thanking the Lord! I better just sit here and contain myself. Lol. I'm looking forward to going to church tonight.


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## CandiceC (Feb 29, 2008)

Mocha5 said:


> I'm sooo happy and excited for you!


 
Aww. Thanks!


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## All_Me (Feb 29, 2008)

CandiceC said:


> Aww. Thanks!


 

Yes!!!!!!!!! After all of these posting ... glory to God! I remember when I received the gift of speaking in tongues. I was like oh no! Let me explain...I grew up *starch baptist! *Speaking in tongues was a no-no unless there was an interpreter due to all the scriptures previously posted about it not edifying the body. So one night at a youth lock in I just kept saying "I love you Lord." Nothing else. Finally this girl told me that the Spirit of the Lord was telling her to tell me to let it go. I was like thanks but... huh. Anyway I just kept saying "I love you Lord" over and over and a foreign language came out of my mouth. You should have seen the look on my face. I put my hand over my mouth to stop these words and like nooo this aint of God. But I knew it was... who am I to deny the Holy Spirit. I went up for prayer to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost and the rest is that.... 

The doctrine of various denominations will always be confusing. I am still learning and growing. My few words have now become a language. I just pour out my heart to God with groanings ... sometimes the pain you feel is so deep their are no words! Sometime your spirit is so hungry for God that words cannot express it. Remember Hannah! See wanted a child sooooo bad she opened her heart and groaned unto God so much that Eli thought she was drunk!But God is soooo awesome that He hears our every request. If you dont speak in tongues it doesnt mean that you don't have the Holy Spirit. But there will come a point in your relationship with God where you just *got *to have more and more of Him! Take the limits off of God. Some of you are scholars of the bible and really study and I admire that! I got some old school praying from being on my knees before God, crying out in worship and praise! Being humble before the Creator. Do not be afraid for God has not given you the spirit of fear. If you desire to speak in tongues and don't know where to start just open you mouth and verbally speak worhsip unto Him. Cry out to Him and ask Him for the gifts that every believer can receive. Ask Him to allow you to move deeper in your worship with Him with the evidence of speaking in tongues so that you may honor Him! I love yall and hopefully I wasnt confusing!


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## discobiscuits (Feb 29, 2008)

edited quote


Sui Topi said:


> * God is not the author of confusion*, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor. 14:32, 33.
> 
> _They have an *unmeaning gibberish* which they call the unknown tongue, which is unknown not only by man but by the Lord and all heaven.* Such gifts are manufactured by men and women, aided by the great deceiver.* Fanaticism, false excitement, false talking in tongues, and noisy exercises have been considered gifts which God has placed in the Church. Some have been deceived here. The fruits of all this have not been good. . . . {Mar 154.2}
> 
> ...



*thanks 4 this post. i like and/or agree w. the bold. re the blue, i see that a lot in the CF. ppl get offended if your opinion or belief disagrees with theirs (or the majority clique) but in reality both ppl could be correct or incorrect. what really matters is what does god say what did jesus do (not what would he do).


oops forgot to add:
*


divya said:


> "Speaking in *tongues" is for the purpose of the edification of others/for the ministry* - that is the spiritual gift. That is why it is referred to when in the presence of others, both in Corinthians and in Acts.


* ditto it is for the edification of the saints and a private conversation between the believer and god. it is an evidence not the evidence.*


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## alexstin (Feb 29, 2008)

CandiceC said:


> I agree with the bolded!!! I used to be scared of speaking in tongues, but the Lord softened my heart, humbled me and I prayed in tongues for the first time early this morning before I went to bed.  It was wonderful to let the Holy Spirit take over. I still feel stirred up about it! I know if it happened for me, it can happen for anybody that wants to receive it!
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience. I noticed I was saying a couple of the same phrases over and over again. At one point something- a phrase?- came out of my mouth super fast. (Faster than I could ever say naturally.) It was totally different than I had heard previously. I'm so glad to know the vocabulary will grow!
> 
> I was wondering about continuing to pray naturally daily. I will continue to do so and then pray in tongues.



Woohoo!!!


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