# guess this hair type.....BEWARE, serious slobbing may occur



## tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT (May 25, 2011)

*guess this hair type.....:-0*

http://youtu.be/uHLadVZyofM
http://youtu.be/s9ds2oALO7U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHRMgwWAKWM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/user/FusionofCultures#p/u/4/ObuVPAi4Sa4
http://www.youtube.com/user/FusionofCultures#p/u/5/D9UBeHibElI


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## Ijanei (May 25, 2011)

*Re: guess this hair type (haircrush )*

_Smh now you seen how discussions go on this lady's beautiful hair....and what pole? lol 
It's not showing up on my end
N/M it is showing now 
_


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## Aireen (May 25, 2011)

tNHP, you can't be serious. I refuse to believe you're serious.


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## tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT (May 25, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/user/FusionofCultures#p/u/5/D9UBeHibElI


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## LaughingOctopus (May 25, 2011)

Can i break out the popcorn?


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## Ijanei (May 25, 2011)

_Just watched the video and my Lord her hair is full, thick and gorgeous....Just so lush and sooo much!! The things I would do that if it was mine. I can't vote because I do not really get into it all but it's beautiful_


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## ladyviper (May 25, 2011)

why................. whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


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## Theresamonet (May 25, 2011)

I voted 2c.


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## Anakinsmomma (May 25, 2011)

That's some yummy hair porn. 


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## iri9109 (May 25, 2011)

girl you know this poll is gonna be all types of skewed...her hair is gorgeous though.


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## tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT (May 25, 2011)

http://youtu.be/uHLadVZyofM


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## Aireen (May 25, 2011)

tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT said:


> *  girl yeah* you know I'm silly
> the system is subjective... so wanted to see what most people see   without the convo she told me a few days ago she would post this vid b/c of all the questions she got  .....  so heyellll this go round i wanted to see numbers not dialogue



Aiight, girl, I'll bite!  I vote 4a, since 4a is said to be a curl still, just smaller and tighter. That is what I see when observing her hair.

^ Now with that said, I'm not up to argue with all of y'all about a woman's hair type and this so called system. I can't handle y'all so if you want to foam at the mouth like rabid dogs over some curls and kinks, go 'head, you do that!


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## tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT (May 25, 2011)

Aireen said:


> Aiight, girl, I'll bite!  I vote 4a, since 4a is said to be a curl still, just smaller and tighter.
> 
> ^ Now with that said, I'm not up to argue with all of y'all about a woman's hair type and this so called system. I can't handle y'all so if you want to foam at the mouth like rabid dogs over some curls and kinks, go 'head, you do that!


EXACTLY... *poll*.. no words, just numbers

no words


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## GaiasDaughter24 (May 25, 2011)

No clue (I chose dunno) but it's still amazing. What I would give for my hair to be that thick


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## **SaSSy** (May 25, 2011)

Oh brother, I'm getting tired of her "I have to prove my hair" videos. She needs to start making videos on tutorials, and product reviews like the rest of the yt natural hair channels.


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## LayneJ (May 25, 2011)

Wow, her hair is absolutely amazing. She must seriously turn heads with that mane of hers. 

As for her hair type, I am not really sure and so I didn't vote. Her hair does not seem to have a lot of curl definition in its dry state and isn't Andre's system designed so that the "true" hair type is determined when the hair is dry? I mean, whenever a poster has a thread asking about their hair type, that's the first thing we say: come back with dry pictures. And I really don't see any curls (though I know they exist). 

I've never seen a head of hair like that though. I think that's why it's so hard to categorize. It doesn't look like the "typical" (I use that term loosely) type 3 or 4 heads, at least not in their _unmanipulated_ states.


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## tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT (May 25, 2011)

**SaSSy** said:


> Oh brother, I'm getting tired of her "I have to prove my hair" videos. She needs to start making videos on tutorials, and product reviews like the rest of the yt natural hair channels.


 nooooooooooo @Sassy  she's so sweet --give her a pass  (she actually told me she received tons of request to see this vid... but being new to youtube she just wanted to give them what *they* wanted)erplexed
but she's tired of it too


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## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

3b/c.........


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## melissa-bee (May 25, 2011)

I'm gonna have to type her hair 3D.


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## LovinCurls (May 25, 2011)

OMG  forget hair typing, this poor girl needs a a major haircut, where is her mother what was she doing when her daughters hair was getting this thick . *grabs her scissors, cut Ms.Fierce's hair and runs around the room with hands full of hair :crazy:  * muwahahaha


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## NicWhite (May 25, 2011)

I personally don't care what here hair type is.  Chime, girl just keep the hair videos and pictures coming! 
 :notworthy      :lovedrool:    :lovedrool:


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## LovinCurls (May 25, 2011)

melissa-bee said:


> I'm gonna have to type her hair 3D.


 
ROFLOLMAO!


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## naturalTAN (May 25, 2011)

Her dry hair falls closer to the 4B category, but she has coarse, heavy individual strands that cause her hair to hang down and have less shrinkage. Most 4Bs have fine strands that stand up and shrink onto themselves and need heavy products to coax it to hang a little. That would explain why her hair looks so different than others because it has the coarseness associated with straighter hair but a kinky texture.

 I guess it is true. Her 4B is not my 4B.


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## naturalTAN (May 25, 2011)

*didn't read the part about no dialogue*


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## anon123 (May 25, 2011)

Let's get an expert in here Nonie


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## tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT (May 25, 2011)

mwedzi said:


> Let's get an expert in here @Nonie


  i didn't wanna get cursed out today


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## Cherokee-n-Black (May 25, 2011)

tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT said:


> no i posted this video *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1tuf...layer_embedded
> and you wanna ask why i posted this poll?
> 
> *(just for the numbers)



Oh...my...God...Becky!  ::wiping tears::


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## softblackcotton (May 25, 2011)

naturalTAN said:


> Her dry hair falls closer to the 4B category, but she has coarse, heavy individual strands that cause her hair to hang down and have less shrinkage. Most 4Bs have fine strands that stand up and shrink onto themselves and need heavy products to coax it to hang a little. That would explain why her hair looks so different than others because it has the coarseness associated with straighter hair but a kinky texture.
> 
> I guess it is true. Her 4B is not my 4B.



I agree. Type 4 with very heavy, thick individual strands. Looks like her hair is so strong, one strand can withstand a 5lb weight being hung from it. Le sigh. There is no secret regime or product to retaining hair that is that strong and almost unbreakable.


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## JadeFox (May 25, 2011)

looks like 4b without the shrinkage, my dream hair, drools.

it also looks like the kanekalon-type hair that i use for "marley braids or twists"


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## [email protected] (May 25, 2011)

I agree with the 3D theory. She's got her own hair type. Beautiful.


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## Solitude (May 25, 2011)

Where's Nonie and BlackMasterPiece?

Have either of them weighed in yet?


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## Cherokee-n-Black (May 25, 2011)

**SaSSy** said:


> Oh brother, I'm getting tired of her "I have to prove my hair" videos. She needs to start making videos on tutorials, and product reviews like the rest of the yt natural hair channels.



I may be wrong, but I think she started out doing that, and people started inundating her with questions about her hair type and telling her that her hair type was x, y, or z.  From what I've seen, she doesn't use that many products, so maybe she doesn't have much to talk about on the review front.  She's mainly a hair porn goddess.  But hey, I can dig it.


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## Beautytalk69 (May 25, 2011)

She is cute and her hair is lovely..but I couldn't watch the whole video. She rambles too much!


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## bride91501 (May 25, 2011)

naturalTAN said:


> Her dry hair falls closer to the 4B category, but she has coarse, heavy individual strands that cause her hair to hang down and have less shrinkage. Most 4Bs have fine strands that stand up and shrink onto themselves and need heavy products to coax it to hang a little. That would explain why her hair looks so different than others because it has the coarseness associated with straighter hair but a kinky texture.
> 
> I guess it is true. Her 4B is not my 4B.



I definitely agree. Not that this makes a difference (but by way of example), her unmanipulated hair looks just like my stretched out 4b hair, except with a bit more of a curl pattern in some places.

Her hair reminds me of this FABULOUS wig that I once saw online but I didn't order cuz I thought it would look too wiggy erplexed  Some of us are just lucky I guess 

I voted 4a/4b btw.


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## ladyviper (May 25, 2011)

tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT you're evil. You sit behind the computer thinking how you can terrorize us with : Hairt typing, Bonnet Girl, Black Geisha Girl with weird eyebrows and Wallmart videos....  you're punishment awaits!



tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT said:


> no i posted this video *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1tuf...layer_embedded
> and you wanna ask why i posted this poll?
> 
> *(just for the numbers)


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## ~Sparklingflame~ (May 25, 2011)

I see 1B.

....


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## FlowerHair (May 25, 2011)

My vote goes to 3c/4a!! 

Her hair is very hard to type and ridiculously beautiful!!


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## RegaLady (May 25, 2011)

I went back and forth between 3a/4a, 4a, and 4a/b. But I voted 4a.  Her hair is kinky, so that makes it a 4, but its not tightly coil and it does hang, so I said 4a. My mother has hair _exactly_ like her's, length and texture, but not thickness and my mother is about a 4a/4b. Mostly, 4a.


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## adamson (May 25, 2011)

Off-topic, but... wow! Her hair is like a wig!


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## Goombay_Summer (May 25, 2011)

I voted 3c/4a using the much coveted '"Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" system  out of frustration  I admit that it's less than an educated guess  but her  hair  turned everything I thought I knew about hair typing on its head.


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## SND411 (May 25, 2011)

People need that are not 4B are more likely to deny she is 4B. We all know why.


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## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

SND411 said:


> People need that are not 4B are more likely to deny she is 4B. We all know why.


??????????


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## ~Sparklingflame~ (May 25, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> ??????????


Yeah  I need some clarification.


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## SND411 (May 25, 2011)

For people claiming she is in the 3s, where the hell are her spiral, softer curls? Look at the video from 3:30 to 4:00.


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## SND411 (May 25, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> ??????????



People who are not 4B, ESPECIALLY those in the 3 category cant stand the fact that Chime's hair looks better than their own. So they demote her to a lower hair category. Remember not all, but a lot them do this.


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## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

SND411 said:


> People who are not 4B, ESPECIALLY those in the 3 category cant stand the fact that Chime's hair looks better than their own. So they demote her to a lower hair category. Remember not all, but a lot them do this.


Oh.  The way it was typed, I think a word was missing or something. I type hair based on the curl tightness NOT on silkiness and all that.  There are kinky type 2's and 3's whose hair is afroey looking while still having a loose texture and there are silky/fine type 4 with really tight  curls.  I saw a video of her and she shows her naked wet hair in it around 4:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTJBfe6lzDo

That is not type 4.  She doesn't seem to define her hair much.


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## iri9109 (May 25, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> Oh.  The way it was typed, I think a word was missing or something. I type hair based on the curl tightness NOT on silkiness and all that.  There are kinky type 2's and 3's whose hair is afroey looking while still having a loose texture and there are silky/fine type 4 with really tight  curls.  *I saw a video of her and she shows her naked wet hair in it around 4:30.
> *
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTJBfe6lzDo
> 
> That is not type 4.  She doesn't seem to define her hair much.



hair isn't supposed to be typed on wet hair though...water weighs it down, in addition to the fact that she washes her stretched hair in braids/twists. her  hair throughout the recent video is what people should type her by because its unmanipulated, product free, unstretched, and dry.


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## ~Sparklingflame~ (May 25, 2011)

That hair just dont look wet to me.

Oh well.


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## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

iri9109 said:


> hair isn't supposed to be typed on wet hair though...water weighs it down, in addition to the fact that she washes her stretched hair in braids/twists. her recent video is what people should type her by because its unmanipulated, product free, unstretched, and dry.


hmmmmmm, i dunno about that.  Many people with naked, dry hair have a totally different texture than wet and naked. I think wet and naked is the most accurate. Nobody wears their hair naked and most people never see it or keep it in that state except for type 1's.  

 I did my nieces friend's hair this weekend.  naked, it looked like a thinner version of that girls hair.  As soon as the water hit it, 3b/c ringlets.  I detangled it, put a leave in and sealed and it was a totally different head.


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## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

~Sparklingflame~ said:


> That hair just dont look wet to me.
> 
> Oh well.


skip to 4:40.


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## ~Sparklingflame~ (May 25, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> skip to 4:40.



Thats wwhat Im talking about.


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## SimplyBlessed (May 25, 2011)

Let me tell yall something that girl has some FO type haya on ha head...

She only wear twists out so her hair is always stretched out...and even after she washes the constant twist outs keep her hair stretched and hold the pattern...

DONT HATE PARTICIPATE wear ur hair in twists out constantly and ur hair will stay stretched out as well but the length and weight also add to this 


Sent from my HTC Glacier using HTC Glacier


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## loshed (May 25, 2011)

She's either a kinky/course 2c or a 4-something with no shrinkage but I'm not entirely sure which one to pick. I'm leaning towards kinky 2c but in that facebook pic posted in the old thread it really does look like blown out type 4 hair. I know this sounds crazy but I wish I could see like a single strand of her hair close up.


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## iri9109 (May 25, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> hmmmmmm, i dunno about that.  Many people with naked, dry hair have a totally different texture than wet and naked. I think wet and naked is the most accurate. Nobody wears their hair naked and most people never see it or keep it in that state except for type 1's.
> 
> I did my nieces friend's hair this weekend.  naked, it looked like a thinner version of that girls hair.  As soon as the water hit it, 3b/c ringlets.  I detangled it, put a leave in and sealed and it was a totally different head.



but wouldnt the best way to type hair be the way it grows out of your head which is dry and product free? people might not wear their hair naked, but thats how it grows from their head, which is what is supposed to be "typed"...and hair isn't naturally wet either...my wet naked hair is looser and silker looking than my dry naked hair, but my dry naked hair isn't that different from my dry hair with product except product makes it less frizzier and slightly more clumpish...detangling is different because it separates the curls and makes it look more fro-ish, but if you let your niece's friend's hair dry without combing/brushing it, and she's 3b/c then she should still have visible curls when dry, even without product.


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## SheenaVee (May 25, 2011)

SND411 said:


> People who are not 4B, ESPECIALLY those in the 3 category cant stand the fact that Chime's hair looks better than their own. So they demote her to a lower hair category. Remember not all, but a lot them do this.



But in the other thread it was mostly people with type 4 hair that were saying she wasn't a type 4.


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## EllePixie (May 25, 2011)

Waaaaait I wanna change my vote! She did have some looser s-curls even when dry so I just saw 3c/4a and put that (I just woke up!) but I really think it's 4a/b/3c...lol.

SND411 It's funny you say that b/c in the other thread it seems that many of the people saying that she was not a 4 were in the 4b category.


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## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

iri9109 said:


> but wouldnt the best way to type hair be the way it grows out of your head which is dry and product free? people might not wear their hair naked, but thats how it grows from their head, which is what is supposed to be "typed"...and hair isn't naturally wet either...my wet naked hair is looser and silker looking than my dry naked hair, but my dry naked hair isn't that different from my dry hair with product except product makes it less frizzier and slightly more clumpish...detangling is different because it separates the curls and makes it look more fro-ish, *but if you let your niece's friend's hair dry without combing/brushing it, and she's 3b/c then she should still have visible curls when dry, even without product.*


not necessarily true at the bolded.  I have seen many a type 3 with afro looking hair annd once it's wet or has product (condish, gel, etc) then u see the curl pattern. For example, look at a lot of kids (usually the ones with moms who don't know what to do with their hair).  Unless the hair is REALLY loose, their hair when they are small is usually a big, puffy fro. It's usually not until these kids get bigger that u will see big defined curly fros.  Many of us on here in kid pics have big, fluffy 4b looking hair. It wasn't until we got to LHCF or late adolescence that many discovered they had "curly" hair.  If most typed their hair based on nakedness, there would be a whole lot more type 4's. 

I just notice in every hair typing thread, the stringent, totally naked hair thing only applies to type 4 looking hair.


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## SND411 (May 25, 2011)

Oh,  I read that thread. I have my own conclusions on why 4B women do this. Doesnt dissolve the fact that women with looser curls do the same.


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## EllePixie (May 25, 2011)

SND411 said:


> Oh,  I read that thread. I have my own conclusions on why 4B women do this. Doesnt dissolve the fact that women with looser curls do the same.



I guess it can go both ways but it's certainly not what I observed in that thread for the most part.


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## KurlyNinja (May 25, 2011)

Who gives a flyin fig puck what her hair type is. Her hair is beautiful and those who think different got some serious hateration going on. The last thing haters need to be doing is sitting in front of a computer trying to bring somebody else down anyway. They need to log offline and try to make themselves better so they dont have a reason to be hatin so hard. #realtak


**exists stage left**


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## iri9109 (May 25, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> not necessarily true at the bolded.  I have seen many a type 3 with afro looking hair annd once it's wet or has product (condish, gel, etc) then u see the curl pattern. For example, look at a lot of kids (usually the ones with moms who don't know what to do with their hair).  Unless the hair is REALLY loose,* their hair when they are small is usually a big, puffy fro.* It's usually not until these kids get bigger that u will see big defined curly fros.  *Many of us on here in kid pics have big, fluffy 4b looking hair. It wasn't until we got to LHCF or late adolescence that many discovered they had "curly" hair.  If most typed their hair based on nakedness, there would be a whole lot more type 4's. *
> 
> I just notice in every hair typing thread, the stringent, totally naked hair thing only applies to type 4 looking hair.



i think that has more to do with combing/brushing...when i comb/ brush my dry hair out, it looks like a 4a/4b poofy fro...when i was younger my hair was always puffy because my mom always combed/brushed/ blowdried my hair and/or braided it up...it never dryed naked and/or shrunken so i never knew i had curls...most curly kids with the big puffy fros is a result of combing/brushing hair in attempts to tame it or style it, which seperates the curls and causes poof.


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## BostonMaria (May 25, 2011)

I voted 3C 
My goodness its so lush and thick!  

I sometimes wonder if my hair is 4A too because of the way it act sometimes.  I think her hair is similar to mine - course, 3C, hair that is on the dry side, not silky and mostly wavy

Who knows... 
Anyway her hair is fierce!  I asked her for a DNA sample LOL Hope she approves my comment


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## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

iri9109 said:


> i think that has more to do with combing/brushing...when i comb/ brush my dry hair out, it looks like a 4a/4b poofy fro...when i was younger my hair was always puffy because my mom always combed/brushed/ blowdried my hair and/or braided it up...it never dryed naked and/or shrunken so i never knew i had curls...most curly kids with the big puffy fros is a result of combing/brushing hair in attempts to tame it or style it, which seperates the curls and causes poof.


I dunno.  I think we have to agree to disagree.  Naked hair doesn't tell the whole story and I think it's inaccurate.


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## Embyra (May 25, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> I think wet and naked is the most accurate. Nobody wears their hair naked and most people never see it or keep it in that state except for type 1's





Kurlee said:


> not necessarily true at the bolded.  I have seen many a type 3 with afro looking hair annd once it's wet or has product (condish, gel, etc) then u see the curl pattern. For example, look at a lot of kids (usually the ones with moms who don't know what to do with their hair).  Unless the hair is REALLY loose, their hair when they are small is usually a big, puffy fro. It's usually not until these kids get bigger that u will see big defined curly fros.  Many of us on here in kid pics have big, fluffy 4b looking hair. It wasn't until we got to LHCF or late adolescence that many discovered they had "curly" hair.  If most typed their hair based on nakedness, there would be a whole lot more type 4's.
> 
> *I just notice in every hair typing thread, the stringent, totally naked hair thing only applies to type 4 looking hair.*




 

looking at chimes hair here it does look very similar to mine big and poofy however my wash and gos look EXACTLY like Sheena284 just denser i dont believe some conditioner/gel is going to move a true 4b into a 3 and higher all product does is define what is already there imo (unless you setting your hair on rollers or something)


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## knt1229 (May 25, 2011)

I still say 4a/b. I don't see all these loose curls everyone else is seeing. Plus if she wears twist outs all the time her hair will hold the shape of the twists even thru a wash. My hair does.


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## MariposaSexyGirl (May 25, 2011)

I don't know but it's gorgeous and so is she.


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## BrownSkin2 (May 25, 2011)

I will say 3 b/c with coarse texture..  When she flips her head over and turns around I could see waves in the top and back of her head.  4 a/b doesn't do that.


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## SheenaVee (May 25, 2011)

Embyra said:


> looking at chimes hair here it does look very similar to mine big and poofy however my wash and gos look EXACTLY like Sheena284 just denser* i dont believe some conditioner/gel is going to move a true 4b into a 3 and higher all product does is define what is already there imo* (unless you setting your hair on rollers or something)



Completely agree with the bolded. 

I can understand typing hair when it's dry because water can weigh fine hair down and make a curl look looser or whatever, but I don't see the difference in typing hair without product.

All product does is highlight what's already there. So if someone is a 4b, and they put gel in their hair, IMO their hair will STILL look 4b, as in, it will still have the smaller, tighter curls, no? The gel will only define those smaller and tighter curls.


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## Vintagecoilylocks (May 25, 2011)

Her hair is beautiful.  Wish I had that weight.  Mine only hangs down in braids.  I voted 4a/4b medium strand and thick volume.  Its seems that 4's have a small curl pattern but her medium strand weight prevents the curl to develope.  Also I noticed that wearing hair in a manipulated straight style can alter the pattern to be straighter.  Mine does.  It looks like Longhairdon'tcare just heavier.  

        But it is the hair I always wanted.


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## Rei (May 25, 2011)

if i have to see this chick's hair in respect to hairtyping one more time


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## Vintagecoilylocks (May 25, 2011)

knt1229 said:


> I still say 4a/b. I don't see all these loose curls everyone else is seeing. Plus if she wears twist outs all the time her hair will hold the shape of the twists even thru a wash. My hair does.





     I agree.  My daughter is like a 3c/4a but she wears braids always and now multi braids and lately after washing she looks like a 3a/b.  Her curl pattern has really smoothed out.


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## SND411 (May 25, 2011)

OP, I notice you always make hair typing threads. Why?


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## Vshanell (May 25, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> I guess it can go both ways but it's certainly not what I observed in that thread for the most part.


I agree.  What I observed in the other thread was curiosity....I didn't see any hint of jealousy or "hating", lol.  She has a beautiful and unique hair type...what's not to be intrigued about?  We observe everything about hair here lol.


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## Vshanell (May 25, 2011)

Sheena284 said:


> Completely agree with the bolded.
> 
> I can understand typing hair when it's dry because water can weigh fine hair down and make a curl look looser or whatever, but I don't see the difference in typing hair without product.
> 
> *All product does is highlight what's already there. So if someone is a 4b, and they put gel in their hair, IMO their hair will STILL look 4b, as in, it will still have the smaller, tighter curls, no? The gel will only define those smaller and tighter curls.*


I agree.  My hair looks _totally_ different w/product but you can still determine the size of the curls w/ product and w/o as long as it's not manipulated.


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## Meritamen (May 25, 2011)

No curl pattern when dry but there are waves and maybe a coil or two when wet... looks like a type 4 to me.

I wonder how long it took her to detangle all that afterward?


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## EssenceOfBeauty (May 25, 2011)

*sigh* Afro textured hair is TOO diverse to be categorized into 10 or 9 or whatever sub categories (depending on who you ask). 

IMO no two heads are the same hence the best hair advice I ever got was to master one's OWN hair.

The proof is clear, especially here on LHCF. Products and methods that work wonders on your so called "hair twin" may have the opposite effect on your hair. My DD has visually identical hair to mine and absolutely embraces shea butter while my hair goes into a rebellion when I apply it.

That hair is gorgeous though, absolutely, positively gorgeous


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## jerseygurl (May 25, 2011)

Just came in to say her hair is absolutely beautiful and so is she.


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## SheenaVee (May 25, 2011)

And just to add to what I was saying before. 

When someone comes in here and starts complaining about how a certain curl defining product didn't work for them and didn't define, people are always quick to say things like, "It will only define what's already there," and "It doesn't CREATE curls, just enhances them." and stuff like that. 

But when someone shows a picture of their hair with a curl defining product in it and asks to be typed it's like, "Oh, you have to take a pic of your hair freshly washed with no product." and "We can't accurately type you if you've got product in your hair."

Lol... so... which is it? 

And, in fact, I think (and hair typing to me, like I said in the other thread, is only useful when it comes to styling so this is not that serious) that it is EASIER to type someone when their curl pattern is defined with product, because when without product, a lot of people's curl pattern's are frizzy, and the curl pattern is hidden in the frizz, therefore making it harder to see.

And in regards to what @iri9109 and @Kurlee were saying, I agree with both of your points. With @iri9109 I agree that dry hair should be the most accurate way to type hair, but I also agree with @Kurlee that the problem with dry hair typing is it's harder to see the curl pattern. 

So, the solution to both of these? 

Type hair dry, and WITH curl defining products! The hair will be dry so it is not being weighed down by water, and the hair will retain the curl pattern that shows up when it's wet. win/win 

(sorry for the long post )


----------



## curlyninjagirl (May 25, 2011)

3c/4a with 1b hang time???!!! No fair!!


----------



## Nonie (May 25, 2011)

mwedzi said:


> Let's get an expert in here @Nonie



@mwedzi, and @Solitude I guess you missed where I handed my typing license to @tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT. Once everyone became 3C/4A and then folks decided 3B was wavy not curly, I was clearly not trained for the job coz I disagreed wholly with their opinions and was clearly standing alone. 

Not sure what type this girl is. Looks like a braid-out to me on stretched hair, but then again, I'm no typing pro so what do I know. 

See, I didn't even know we now are telling types from just one style/look. Where are the other faces of this hair? What does it look like wet? What does it look like if air-dried w/o products? What did it look like short? There are so many factors that can affect how hair looks that I don't know how folks can just tell from one look what type of hair someone has. If you saw my hair the way I have it on a daily basis, you'd think I either had wavy hair or had hair w/o a pattern. 

Anyway, I'll let the typing pros debate this one out. I'm not one.


----------



## Napp (May 25, 2011)

Sheena284 said:


> And just to add to what I was saying before.
> 
> When someone comes in here and starts complaining about how a certain curl defining product didn't work for them and didn't define, people are always quick to say things like, "It will only define what's already there," and "It doesn't CREATE curls, just enhances them." and stuff like that.
> 
> ...



i think thats a good idea especialyh for people like me who have frizzy hair when wet  even with no manipulation but  dry with product have defined curls.

In think the issue with wet hairtyping is that it always is hair wet with product which looks very different from dry hair with or without product.


----------



## wavezncurlz (May 25, 2011)

ZedianChic said:


> **sigh* Afro textured hair is TOO diverse to be categorized into 10 or 9 or whatever sub categories (depending on who you ask). *
> 
> IMO no two heads are the same hence the best hair advice I ever got was to master one's OWN hair.
> 
> The proof is clear, especially here on LHCF. Products and methods that work wonders on your so called "hair twin" may have the opposite effect on your hair.


 

Quoted for emphasis! THIS IS THE TRUF!
And I stopped trying to copy my hair twins' regimen. My hair might "look" like someone else's but I have to find what works for me and my unique hair.


----------



## EllePixie (May 25, 2011)

Pokahontas said:


> I agree.  What I observed in the other thread was curiosity....*I didn't see any hint of jealousy or "hating"*, lol.  She has a beautiful and unique hair type...what's not to be intrigued about?  We observe everything about hair here lol.



I don't agree with the bolded 100% but let me not start anything in this thread!! 

I do agree her hair is unique and beautiful.


----------



## theAlist (May 25, 2011)

Pics from other thread


----------



## McQuay30 (May 25, 2011)

If she is a 4a/b, would she have shrinkage? It did not seem like she had shrinkage therefore I believe or feel she is somewhere in the 3 category.


----------



## theAlist (May 25, 2011)

And I don't know what to to type it.  But if I had to I would say like someone already stated she's either a kinky 2c or a straight 4a/b.  I'm leaning more towards a 4 though.  Either way it's very unique and beautiful.


----------



## Vshanell (May 25, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> I don't agree with the bolded 100% but let me not start anything in this thread!!
> 
> I do agree her hair is unique and beautiful.


It's ok, I know that there's plenty that won't agree with that because I saw so many posts saying that there was hating but I really didn't see it.  Most people seemed totally in love lol.


----------



## theAlist (May 25, 2011)

McQuay30 said:


> If she is a 4a/b, would she have shrinkage? It did not seem like she had shrinkage therefore I believe or feel she is somewhere in the 3 category.



But 3's have shrinkage as well and very curly hair.  If she's not a 4 for shrinkage then she's not a 3 from Shrinkage either.  If we go by that logic she's a kinky 1 or 2.


----------



## theAlist (May 25, 2011)

I would also love to see her hair at the beginning.  She's done nothing but braidouts and twist outs since the first day of her transition.  That's years and years of stretching her hair.  That could be the answer as to why she appears to not have much shrinkage.


----------



## davisbr88 (May 25, 2011)

iri9109 said:


> *hair isn't supposed to be typed on wet hair though...water weighs it down,* in addition to the fact that she washes her stretched hair in braids/twists. her  hair throughout the recent video is what people should type her by because its unmanipulated, product free, unstretched, and dry.



ITA.
And she said he hair dries super fast, which means she probably has porous hair. Porous hair gets soaked reallllly fast and water most definitely weighs it down.
Idk her hair type or even care anymore but it's not a true measure of hair type on wet hair if your hair is really porous.


----------



## EllePixie (May 25, 2011)

Sheena284 said:


> And just to add to what I was saying before.
> 
> When someone comes in here and starts complaining about how a certain curl defining product didn't work for them and didn't define, people are always quick to say things like, "It will only define what's already there," and "It doesn't CREATE curls, just enhances them." and stuff like that.
> 
> ...



Sheena I agree with this and this is another reason why I think hair typing is stupid as heck, for the most part. I believe the "dry, no product" (except maybe condish) guideline was either given by Andre or NaturallyCurly - and I said the same thing you did when we were talking about hair types once - I was like, who cares what "type" I have with no product in my hair when I ALWAYS use some kind of product (a leave-in at least). 

I really do think that some people believe that one hair type is better than another - I have seen people say things along the lines of, "Well I don't _need_ [insert curl definer here] to have curls..." almost implying that if you use gel/curl cremes your hair is still not good enough. There was one poster on NC that would make the argument that type 3 hair was the only "true" curly hair, and it bothered her when people referred to type 2 or type 4 hair as curly, and she said that her hair dry was a type 3 but when wet it was a 2, so she believed that you needed dry hair no product...some thought that she was so adamant about this because she wanted to keep her title as a "true" curly...lol...too messy.


----------



## Nonie (May 25, 2011)

Sheena284 said:


> Type hair dry, and WITH curl defining products! The hair will be dry so it is not being weighed down by water, and the hair will retain the curl pattern that shows up when it's wet. win/win
> 
> (sorry for the long post )



@Sheena284 I say that's not enough even. I say show your hair in many more forms. I personally think I showcase my hair well in this post. I don't think anyone has any doubt from looking at those pics that I am 4B. (Too many people try to create a certain look, so believing that dry and with products is the way to go isn't exactly true, because it take away the fact that the product used could be a heavy gel that still does what water could do if water does stretch your hair. Water doesn't stretch my hair unless it's twisted (the pics of how my hair looks after being washed show wet hair and there's no hanging/stretching involved )... So again, not all hair reacts the same to products or regimens, which is why you have to see it in as many states as possible to be able to even begin guessing the type. But what do I know. 

I think tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT should create a questionnaire of about 20 questions with pics requested which  will be fool-proof in detemining  what type people are. My suggestion would be specifics like: What does it look like if you apply X gel to dripping wet hair and not comb? What about if you brush it back as if trying to create a bun or puff? What if you shampoo with Y and then rinse and do nothing else? ...Please enclose a pic for each response. THEN  you might get an accurate picture.

There's that girl on YT who creates clumps by twirling and stretching her hair for hours. If she were the one posting a photo of her hair with product, we'd not really know she had hair as kinky as mine or close. We'd think she had 4A hair or 3C/4A...just because with a little help, our hair can be made to do things it doesn't do on its own.


----------



## Livysmiles (May 25, 2011)

Solitude said:


> Where's @Nonie and @BlackMasterPiece?
> 
> Have either of them weighed in yet?


 

It's funny you mentioned BMP because when I saw her hair I thought it looks similar to BMP. I think she's definitely in the 4 category. I don't see 3 anywhere.


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (May 25, 2011)

So the winner is "gorgeous!" lol as if this thread will end that easily. I'm waiting on an audit, so i have time to sit here and be philosophical. Hair typing is a normal natural thing that humans do. We like to categorize things so we can understand them. We look for commonalities and try to put things in subsets on the basis of those common traits. Think Animal Kingdom-phylum-genus-species. Yet the jury is still out on the platypus and sharks give birth. It will always be the case that despite our best efforts to categorize naturally occurring phenomena, our system will continually be challenged by things like Chime's hair. All we can do is marvel at nature. 

Now a more interesting question is the underlying social/racial implications of this discussion about Chime's hair along with all the others. Those issues that even LCHF are too polite to just "put it out there." Now, I like to "put stuff out there" but I don't want to get banned for starting a war.


----------



## Nonie (May 25, 2011)

davisbr88 and @iri9109 not all hair stretches when wet. 

This is my full SL hair when it was dripping wet:






In fact if my hair was stretched and then made wet, it'd shrink up to a TWA even if I had the shower head spraying through it. 

Hence the reason I say, it's not just wet or dry or w/ products or w/o or manipulated or unmanipulated...but all of the above and details of products used that can help determine type. 

This is what my hair looks like out of braids:










So if that's all you ever saw, you'd never know it can shrink back up.

I saw the images of the lady y'all talking about with her hair a bit shrunken. It's too far to tell the size of her coils but she no doubt has some type 4 kinkiness in there. Now whether she also has 3C is @tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT's task to confirm  but that glorious head of hair looks like it'd make an awesome classic afro if it were shorter and were combed out.


----------



## SheenaVee (May 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Sheena284 I say that's not enough even. I say show your hair in many more forms. I personally think I showcase my hair well in this post. I don't think anyone has any doubt from looking at those pics that I am 4B. (Too many people try to create a certain look, so believing that dry and with products is the way to go isn't exactly true, because it take away the fact that the product used could be a heavy gel that still does what water could do if water does stretch your hair. Water doesn't stretch my hair unless it's twisted (the pics of how my hair looks after being washed show wet hair and there's no hanging/stretching involved )... So again, not all hair reacts the same to products or regimens, which is why you have to see it in as many states as possible to be able to even begin guessing the type. But what do I know.
> 
> I think @thenaturalproject should create a questionnaire of about 20 questions with pics requested which  will be fool-proof in detemining  what type people are. My suggestion would be specifics like: What does it look like if you apply X gel to dripping wet hair and not comb? What about if you brush it back as if trying to create a bun or puff? What if you shampoo with Y and then rinse and do nothing else? ...Please enclose a pic for each response. THEN  you might get an accurate picture.
> 
> There's that girl on YT who creates clumps by twirling and stretching her hair for hours. If she were the one posting a photo of her hair with product, we'd not really know she had hair as kinky as mine or close. We'd think she had 4A hair or 3C/4A...just because with a little help, our hair can be made to do things it doesn't do on its own.



Completely agree with what you're saying, but even with 'creating' curls by twirling and stretching, you cannot change the SIZE of the curl. The 3a, 3c, 4a, 4b clumped curls will still look 3a, 3c, 4a, 4b. The ONLY way you can change the size of your curls is by doing braidouts, twistouts, and using rollers, and curling tongs. Twirling it is still just another way of defining it IMO.

Also, yeah, that's true that products can still weigh the hair down, but when the product has dried, I really don't think it makes THAT much of a difference.


----------



## Nonie (May 25, 2011)

Sheena284 said:


> Completely agree with what you're saying, but even with 'creating' curls by twirling and stretching, you cannot change the SIZE of the curl. The 3a, 3c, 4a, 4b clumped curls will still look 3a, 3c, 4a, 4b. The ONLY way you can change the size of your curls is by doing braidouts, twistouts, and using rollers, and curling tongs. Twirling it is still just another way of defining it IMO.
> 
> *Also, yeah, that's true that products can still weigh the hair down, but when the product has dried, I really don't think it makes THAT much of a difference*.



I agree with curl size not changing when you add product but do you know how many people jump in between the types simply because curls are stretched out and hair looks wavy? Hence the rumor that 3B is wavy.  The bigger curls have more hang but they are still clearly curls to me...yet folks will start calling 3C hair that is stretched out due to length/weight or product 3B coz it looks wavy. Clearly paying no mind to curl size which in my mind is one of the big type determinant. 

@ the bold, depends on what product we're talking about. When people shingle, they use a gel and set the hair in the stretched form so even when dry it has more hang than before they shingled. (The first three images on this page show you how different the hair looks shingled) So trust, you can fake hanging with products.


----------



## serendipity (May 25, 2011)

Her hair is gorgeous!
I'd say her hair's texture is kinky-straight akin to kanekalon fibre for twisting. The wave pattern in her hair is not tight enough to place her squarely in the 4b category. This combined with the high sheen and lack of shrinkage tells me she's a 2c mostly. The front of her hair has the tighter 4b texture. Her hair looks kinkier because of it's coarseness yet it doesn't curl so it can't be type 3 or 4a. I'd class it as kinky 2c/4b. A huge advantage of that hair type is that it's less susceptible to knotting and tangling.


----------



## empressri (May 25, 2011)

if her hair was to her ears, would there be such a discussion like so?

nope. just a random though.


----------



## Wildchild453 (May 25, 2011)

McQuay30 said:


> If she is a 4a/b, would she have shrinkage? It did not seem like she had shrinkage therefore I believe or feel she is somewhere in the 3 category.



Other categories aren't immune to shrinking, I've seen both 2s and 3s with shrinkage and in the video you can see that her hair shrinks through out the process. 

I put her in the 4a/4b category but what do I know.


----------



## greenandchic (May 25, 2011)

empressri said:


> if her hair was to her ears, would there be such a discussion like so?
> 
> nope. just a random though.



Doubt it.  You know, 4 type hair cant be long!  

With that said, her hair is so enviable!  Here's hoping my hair would ever get that long in my lifetime.


----------



## serendipity (May 25, 2011)

empressri said:


> if her hair was to her ears, would there be such a discussion like so?
> 
> nope. just a random though.






greenandchic said:


> Doubt it.  You know, 4 type hair cant be long!
> 
> With that said, her hair is so enviable!  Here's hoping my hair would ever get that long in my lifetime.



Actually the fascination is that it appears kinky yet has a wave rather than curl pattern and hangs rather than puffs out. It's not that serious.


----------



## tomnikids3 (May 25, 2011)

A M A Z I N G!  I guessed 4a but no matter what her hair is beautiful and long and healthy, im green with envy.


----------



## omegachick31 (May 25, 2011)

There needs to be an Ask Andre sticky thread and any moderator named Andre should man it and whatever thou who goes by the name Andre says it is the truth and then ye shall all go forth and be free....Amen


----------



## Arian (May 25, 2011)

:scratchch   If she is 3c/4a/4b, then I have something to look forward to....thank goodness!


----------



## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

Sheena284 said:


> And just to add to what I was saying before.
> 
> When someone comes in here and starts complaining about how a certain curl defining product didn't work for them and didn't define, people are always quick to say things like, "It will only define what's already there," and "It doesn't CREATE curls, just enhances them." and stuff like that.
> 
> ...


 @ your hair


----------



## helixhoney (May 25, 2011)

I actually said 4b. Unless she brushes the heck out of it in the shower, it doesn't look like her hair has a spiral/coily pattern to it, which might account for why it doesn't shrink that much....in addition the twistouts, too.


----------



## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> Sheena I agree with this and this is another reason why I think hair typing is stupid as heck, for the most part. I believe the "dry, no product" (except maybe condish) guideline was either given by Andre or NaturallyCurly - and I said the same thing you did when we were talking about hair types once - I* was like, who cares what "type" I have with no product in my hair when I ALWAYS use some kind of product (a leave-in at least).
> *
> *I really do think that some people believe that one hair type is better than another - I have seen people say things along the lines of, "Well I don't need [insert curl definer here] to have curls..." almost implying that if you use gel/curl cremes your hair is still not good enough*. There was one poster on NC that would make the argument that type 3 hair was the only "true" curly hair, and it bothered her when people referred to type 2 or type 4 hair as curly, and she said that her hair dry was a type 3 but when wet it was a 2, so she believed that you needed dry hair no product...some thought that she was so adamant about this because she wanted to keep her title as a "true" curly...lol...too messy.


@ the black, girl yes! You;re so frank, I love it.  @ the red, that is the undertone I see in many threads and it's stupid as hell.


----------



## Kurlee (May 25, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> *
> Now a more interesting question is the underlying social/racial implications of this discussion about Chime's hair along with all the others. Those issues that even LCHF are too polite to just "put it out there." Now, I like to "put stuff out there" but I don't want to get banned for starting a war*.


everyone is puzzyfooting around it


----------



## Samoneisthebest (May 25, 2011)

Her hair reminds me of a courser version of kimmaytubes hair. Her hair is 3c/4a right? Her hair texture is hard to figure out because it is so long, weighted down and stretched out. If it did have a curl pattern, it doesn't anymore because of the weight. We will probably never know her hair type unless she cuts it shorter or post picture of it when it was shorter.


----------



## greenandchic (May 25, 2011)

serendipity said:


> Actually the fascination is that it appears kinky yet has a wave rather than curl pattern and hangs rather than puffs out. It's not that serious.



I've seen that many times with shorter hair - no hoopla.  I know its not that serious, its just hair, but I cant help but to think length has something to do with it.  That's just me.


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (May 25, 2011)

empressri said:


> if her hair was to her ears, would there be such a discussion like so?
> 
> nope. just a random though.



Wellllll...according to some, her hair isn't shrinking because "it's so long and heavy" but I guess I'm in the minority that actually did see waves in her hair (look at the part where she says "it's not wavy or anything" and proceeds to toss up a weft of wavy hair in the back) and I disagree with the shrinkage theory b/c some of her hair in the front is shorter and it doesn't shrink either. So if I saw those two things on ear-length hair I would still wonder about type.  I get what you're saying though.


----------



## nappystorm (May 25, 2011)

I vote 1A


----------



## ms-gg (May 25, 2011)

I guess when she starts growing back that patch in the front we can see how her hair would have looked like in a TWA.....


----------



## kblc06 (May 25, 2011)

That other thread blew to smithereens so fast that I really didn't have a chance to comment, but I'm going back to my previous responses on this topic:

Based on this info, she appears to be a loose type 3/4 hybrid w/ very coarse, thready, high density hair 

It actually reminds me alot of Polynesians' hair 



kblc06 said:


> I think Andre's misconception lies within the fact that according to his system, curl size correlates very closely with actual texture, i.e. 1a-3a=silky hair. This is hardly the case. There are many Polynesians who have 1a-2a hair with very little wave or curl that is highly textured, almost to the point where it resembles afro hair. Likewise, I have seen individuals like my mother and other members who have silky 4a hair that is very easily manipulated to the point that it can even resemble type 2c/3ab hair







kblc06 said:


> Actually, this tends not to be the case, hence the reason why so many 4a/b hair types suffer from breakage. I have seen very few 4a/bs with coarse, thick stranded hair. Most of the time, they are fine or medium but with densely packed strands (which implies that they have more hair follicles). Likewise, there are type 3s like Lynnieb and EmpressRi who have very thick individuals strands of hair with high density, making their hair appear even thicker than average. This breakdown may help to explain things a bit:
> 
> 1.) Hair Texture: Silky, thready, cottony. This actually measures how the hair feels to the touch and can give you more information about how the hair behaves and the potential porosity of the hair. Silky strands of hair typically feel very smooth along the hair strand with lower porosity. Thready and cottony are a little harder to distinguish. Typically, thready hair may have a slightly larger diameter and feels uneven but still smooth along the hair strand. Sometimes, it even has a halo-y appearance, much like a strand of thread. This type of hair generally has a lower porosity and can "feel" coarse even though the strands may be fine. Cottony hair usually feels soft to touch and feels uneven along the hair shaft due to kinks along the hair strand- this hair texture is generally associated with type 4 hair, but this is not always the case. Some type 3s can have cottony hair and some type 4s can have silky or thready hair.
> 
> ...


----------



## kblc06 (May 25, 2011)

I completely agree with this.  Sometimes I'm on the cuff as to whether I'm a type 3 mix or just 4a/b/3c because in a completely dry state, I have a ton of shrinkage and frizz and my hair most definitely looks like type 4 hair. But when I use a lot of the staples that most type 4s use, my hair looks a stringy mess with barely any wave. The individual strands don't actually coil into anything appearing like ringlets unless I manipulate them that way, they're just elongated or shrunken S-waves that can easily look as loose as 2c hair or as tight as 4a/b hair



Sheena284 said:


> And just to add to what I was saying before.
> 
> When someone comes in here and starts complaining about how a certain curl defining product didn't work for them and didn't define, people are always quick to say things like, "It will only define what's already there," and "It doesn't CREATE curls, just enhances them." and stuff like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## empressri (May 25, 2011)

^^

best explanation ever. this is why i dont even like putting my hair in one category cause it might look 3 something to one person and act like 4 something if that makes sense. cause my hair might not be as tight as a 4b BUT I have a 50% if not greater shrinkage factor and I can use the most moisturizing and heavy things on my hair cause it's thirsty.


----------



## greenandchic (May 25, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> I guess when she starts growing back that patch in the front we can see how her hair would have looked like in a TWA.....



That woman got some much hair, I almost forgot a portion is shaved off!


----------



## CurlsBazillion (May 25, 2011)

*Re: guess this hair type.....:-0*



tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTJBfe6lzDo
> 
> since we understand Andre's typing system is *subjective*.... in the video above please select (in the poll ONLY) which hair type *YOU* see
> 
> ...





lol @ all these pages of dead debate, we are all so strong minded that none of us will be swayed to think differently about this subject.  When it comes to hair typing IMO its pretty much completely irrelevant. I believe HairCrush is 4a and you (the reader) believes she isn't and I agree to disagree


----------



## chebaby (May 25, 2011)

i voted 4a but now i think shes a 4b. i think if her hair was much shorter it would stick straight up and it would look as if her hair grows out and up instead of down. however since her hair has so much weight to it it hangs which stretches the curls.

also a few more points. if i typed my hair while it was wet and naked i would be a 3b. my wet hair hangs down in big waves. 
when my hair is dry and naked it is a 3c 4a.
when dry with product it is still a 3c 4a except there is less frizz and a  tiny bit more shine.

and also i wear my hair naked almost every single weekend. infact the only reason why i use products at all is because during the work week i do braid outs and i only moisturize the day i set the braid out. so during the week i dont moisturize at all and am not sure how my hair will hold up for a whole week without a moisturizer.


----------



## ~Sparklingflame~ (May 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @mwedzi, and @Solitude I guess you missed where I handed my typing license to @tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT. Once everyone became 3C/4A and then folks decided 3B was wavy not curly, I was clearly not trained for the job coz I disagreed wholly with their opinions and was clearly standing alone.
> 
> Not sure what type this girl is.* Looks like a braid-out to me on stretched hair, but then again, I'm no typing pro so what do I know. *
> 
> ...


Nonie Exactly. Ever since I saw her hair I have always thought this is what she had going on but then, Im not into this hair typing thing so....


----------



## lolascurls (May 25, 2011)

This and the other thread have really helped me to realise,,,hair typing is too subjective to be taken seriously. I never thought I'd say that! Sorry to all those who still want to wave their hair type banners but, I'm good! 
Her hair is Bea-u-tiful! Off to keep growing me some hurr!


----------



## theAlist (May 25, 2011)

Samoneisthebest said:


> Her hair reminds me of a courser version of kimmaytubes hair. Her hair is 3c/4a right? Her hair texture is hard to figure out because it is so long, weighted down and stretched out. If it did have a curl pattern, it doesn't anymore because of the weight. We will probably never know her hair type unless she cuts it shorter or post picture of it when it was shorter.



Kimmay has pictures after her BC.  She is definitely 4a/b.  No doubt about it.  Other people threw in the 3c when her hair got longer.


----------



## Nonie (May 25, 2011)

~Sparklingflame~ said:


> @Nonie Exactly. Ever since I saw her hair I have always thought this is what she had going on but then, Im not into this hair typing thing so....



~Sparklingflame~ you know whose hair it reminds me of? My idol Yassylane's. If you look through the album, there are pics of braidouts that look like that and also of her shrunken hair that looks like this lady's shrunken hair.


----------



## ~Sparklingflame~ (May 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> ~Sparklingflame~ you know whose hair it reminds me of? My idol Yassylane's. If you look through the album, there are pics of braidouts that look like that and also of her shrunken hair that looks like this lady's shrunken hair.


Nonie
Im not saying shes lying, but out of the thousands of heads of natural hair that I have seen I have NEVER seen that before. I havent seen every haed of natural hair either, but I have seen and experienced TONS of braid outs/twist outs that mirror that closely but um....yeah. Dont mind me. Im not hair typing expert by ANY means.


----------



## Nonie (May 25, 2011)

~Sparklingflame~ said:


> @Nonie
> Im not saying shes lying, but out of the thousands of heads of natural hair that I have seen I have NEVER seen that before. I havent seen every haed of natural hair either, but I have seen and experienced TONS of braid outs/twist outs that mirror that closely but um....yeah. Dont mind me. Im not hair typing expert by ANY means.




~Sparklingflame~ I didn't realize she had claimed a type or had denied it being a braid-out. (What did she say?) I am not the most patient YT viewer so I didn't even have sound turned on when I viewed the vid posted but skipped through a few of her vids and saw the same style in all...and thus responded to OP's question from that observation.


----------



## ~Sparklingflame~ (May 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> ~Sparklingflame~ I didn't realize she had claimed a type or had denied it being a braid-out. (What did she say?) I am not the most patient YT viewer so I didn't even have sound turned on when I viewed the vid posted but skipped through a few of her vids and saw the same style in all...and thus responded to OP's question from that observation.



Nonie Im not a patient YT viewer either. I dont know WHAT she said, but according to all this hoopla I just figured she didnt ever say or based on what she said and what we see it dont match.


----------



## serendipity (May 25, 2011)

greenandchic said:


> I've seen that many times with shorter hair - no hoopla.  I know its not that serious, its just hair, but I cant help but to think length has something to do with it.  That's just me.



Maybe, but this is LHCF after all. Long hair is invariably more fascinating around here by default. I'm much more interested in seeing length than big chops. Just being honest.


----------



## jerseygurl (May 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @~Sparklingflame~ I didn't realize she had claimed a type or had denied it being a braid-out. (What did she say?) I am not the most patient YT viewer so I didn't even have sound turned on when I viewed the vid posted but skipped through a few of her vids and saw the same style in all...and thus responded to OP's question from that observation.


From her channel I gathered she said she was 4a/b and some posters in the other thread said that they have never seen 4a/b hair behave like that. Hence the debate over her hair type


----------



## kittikat24 (May 25, 2011)

I'll admit, her 1a2b3c4z hair is lovely.


----------



## Nonie (May 25, 2011)

jerseygurl said:


> From her channel I gathered she said she was 4a/b and some posters in the other thread said that they have never seen 4a/b hair behave like that. Hence the debate over her hair type



Wait, she said she is what others whose hair behaves the same said they were and now we're debating???  About what?  Are we a bunch of crazies? The hell? 

Thanks @jerseygurl. OP, there's your answer. 4A/B...just like Yassylane. The end, for me anyway. Ta-ta all!


----------



## nappystorm (May 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Wait, she said she is what others whose hair behaves the same said they were and now we're debating???  About what? * Are we a bunch of crazies? *The hell?
> 
> Thanks @jerseygurl. OP, there's your answer. 4A/B...just like Yassylane. The end, for me anyway. Ta-ta all!


....................


----------



## CurlyNiquee (May 25, 2011)

Type 2c, afro textured hair.

ETA: Her hair is gorgeoussss....I was quite green watching her play with it.


----------



## Chiquitita (May 25, 2011)

I voted 4a/b.  She just has very little shrinkage.  I don't see the 3b/c.  Especially, if hair typing is done based on dry hair with no product.... 

My dry hair looks very similar, just shorter with more shrinkage and I consider myself mostly 4b.


----------



## afiyabirdie (May 25, 2011)

everytime i see her hair i get mad. lol. it's just not fair that my hair looks NOTHING like that lol. wish i could borrow it for a while.


----------



## wavezncurlz (May 25, 2011)

didn't I tell ya'll that shrinkage has nothing to do with hair type and how much it curls/not curls. I think it's weight. Think CelinaStarr - her hair is heavy, thick and has very little shrinkage. Finer ladies like me, regardless of the fact that it has more wave than curls, shrinks as much as some of the ladies with 4 hair. My hair shrinks as much as 50% and people are always shocked to hear that I'm WL until my hair is flat ironed.

kblc06 I agree, her hair reminds me of curly/wavy Polynesian hair (I know that not all people of Polynesian have this hair but I see it a lot) - I also mentioned this before.


----------



## LovelyNaps26 (May 25, 2011)

I'd say she has most 4a with coarse texture and minimal shrinkage. i think people are getting caught on the lack of shrinkage but her strands are likely very coarse (like east Asians..Chinese, Koreans), but she lacks the silkiness. Most East Asians will tell you that it takes tremendous effort for their hair to hold and maintain a curl. On the positive side breakage is less of an issue issue with coarse strands. If she has hair even half that coarse then the lack of shrinkage is understandable. 

I usually don't ask or care but I am interested about her ancestry. That lack of shrinkage is really interesting. I know east Asians and Native Americans have some of the coarsest textures  of hair but i wonder if this is true of other groups. i don't spend much time researching hair.


----------



## wavezncurlz (May 25, 2011)

LovelyNaps26
I agree that coarseness is a factor. My Thai friend had from high school the most straight yet coarse hair. It was so strong too. Her hair would defy a curl. It literally grew overnight too.


----------



## serendipity (May 25, 2011)

Having looked at her Fotki,

http://members.fotki.com/lifesacatwalk/about/

I'm now convinced she's a coarse 3b/c with some 4a in the front. Here are some pics of her hair at a shorter length:


----------



## anon123 (May 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @mwedzi, and @Solitude I guess you missed where I handed my typing license to @tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT. Once everyone became 3C/4A and then folks decided 3B was wavy not curly, I was clearly not trained for the job coz I disagreed wholly with their opinions and was clearly standing alone.
> 
> Not sure what type this girl is. Looks like a braid-out to me on stretched hair, but then again, I'm no typing pro so what do I know.
> 
> ...



Aw man,  well, then the typing hope is lost.  For what's it's worth, I thought this video was of her hair freshly washed, wet, just out the shower, no products.  And then allowed to dry while she was on camera.

What y'all talking about it's trained by braids or twists?  There are tons of people who wear their hair in nothing by twists and their hair don't look nothing like that.   We need another category or two.  Or 10.


----------



## jerseygurl (May 25, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Wait, she said she is what others whose hair behaves the same said they were and now we're debating???  About what?  Are we a bunch of crazies? The hell?
> 
> Thanks @jerseygurl. OP, there's your answer. 4A/B...just like Yassylane. The end, for me anyway. Ta-ta all!


Nonie her hair is mystery to me as well  .I leave the typing to the experts


----------



## jerseygurl (May 25, 2011)

mwedzi said:


> Aw man,  well, then the typing hope is lost.  For what's it's worth, I thought this video was of her hair freshly washed, wet, just out the shower, no products.  And then allowed to dry while she was on camera.
> 
> What y'all talking about it's trained by braids or twists?  There are tons of people who wear their hair in nothing by twists and their hair don't look nothing like that.   We need another category or two.  Or 10.


Soon you'll see a bunch of people doing nothing but twistouts and braidouts in the hopes of stretching out their hair


----------



## nikolite (May 25, 2011)

wavezncurlz said:


> didn't I tell ya'll that shrinkage has nothing to do with hair type and how much it curls/not curls. I think it's weight. Think CelinaStarr - her hair is heavy, thick and has very little shrinkage. *Finer ladies like me, regardless of the fact that it has more wave than curls, shrinks as much as some of the ladies with 4 hair. My hair shrinks as much as 50% and people are always shocked to hear that I'm WL until my hair is flat ironed.*



I agree.  Which would explain why whenever I henna, my curl pattern always loosens some and my hair hangs longer (looking more wavy when damp) rather than frizzy-curly.  

She has coarse strands that are heavy and probably straighten out the longer they get.  I'd think


----------



## nikolite (May 25, 2011)

mwedzi said:


> What y'all talking about it's trained by braids or twists?  There are tons of people who wear their hair in nothing by twists and their hair don't look nothing like that.   We need another category or two.  Or 10.



My thoughts exactly.  I've been wearing my hair in twists for years and every week after its detangled, washed and conditioned it reverts back to its original self every time.


----------



## ms-gg (May 25, 2011)

mwedzi said:


> Aw man,  well, then the typing hope is lost.  For what's it's worth, I thought this video was of her hair freshly washed, wet, just out the shower, no products.  And then allowed to dry while she was on camera.
> 
> What y'all talking about it's trained by braids or twists?  There are tons of people who wear their hair in nothing by twists and their hair don't look nothing like that.   We need another category or two.  Or 10.



Thank you Dr. Mwedzi.  I have been a constant protective styler for almost 5 years and my texture has never changed permanently to a looser type.  I'm just saying


----------



## Napp (May 25, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> Thank you Dr. Mwedzi.  I have been a constant protective styler for almost 5 years and my texture has never changed permanently to a looser type.  I'm just saying



i was thinking about starting a "relax your curls naturally though twist/braid out challenge" .....





....but i know better

i still might do it just for kicks


----------



## MariposaSexyGirl (May 25, 2011)

LovelyNaps26 said:


> I'd say she has most 4a with coarse texture and minimal shrinkage. i think people are getting caught on the lack of shrinkage but her strands are likely very coarse (like east Asians..Chinese, Koreans), but she lacks the silkiness. Most East Asians will tell you that it takes tremendous effort for their hair to hold and maintain a curl. On the positive side breakage is less of an issue issue with coarse strands. If she has hair even half that coarse then the lack of shrinkage is understandable.
> 
> I usually don't ask or care but I am interested about her ancestry. That lack of shrinkage is really interesting. *I know east Asians and Native Americans have some of the coarsest textures  of hair but i wonder if this is true of other groups*. i don't spend much time researching hair.




Actually that doesn't ring true for all Natives. I've trimmed a choctaw womans hair before. And while she was threatening to kick me in my arse if I cut to much  I noticed she had long but very fine brown hair. She was a pure blood.


----------



## virtuenow (May 25, 2011)

I answered w/o reading any comments or votes.  Her hair is definitely kinky.  I have followed her since way before she had a youtube.  Her fotki gives good shots of her texture from earlier days/transition.  Alot of the women on youtube that say they are in the 4's appear to be 3's (eh, perhaps its camera angle).  But she is one person that has more type 4 characteristics than anything.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

I would have to say her hair is a kinky textured type 2C. It is not 4A/B. She has no curl/coil pattern and no shrinkage whatsoever. Her hair looks like it has been blowdried or stretched out, but she said she didn't do any of that. That is amazing. Her hair is very unique.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

wavezncurlz said:


> *didn't I tell ya'll that shrinkage has nothing to do with hair type and how much it curls/not curls.* I think it's weight. Think CelinaStarr - her hair is heavy, thick and has very little shrinkage. Finer ladies like me, regardless of the fact that it has more wave than curls, shrinks as much as some of the ladies with 4 hair. My hair shrinks as much as 50% and people are always shocked to hear that I'm WL until my hair is flat ironed.
> 
> kblc06 I agree, her hair reminds me of curly/wavy Polynesian hair (I know that not all people of Polynesian have this hair but I see it a lot) - I also mentioned this before.


Yes it does @ the bolded.  The tighter the curl, the more shrinkage you will have. And weight is a factor with shrinkage. Hair type has nothing to do with how dry, silky, thick, or thin your hair is.

Type 1 - Straight
Type 2 - Wavy
Type 3 - Curly
Type 4 - Tightly Coiled

HairCrush's hair is wavy which would make her fall into the Type 2 category. She has no curl or coil pattern in her hair.


----------



## ms-gg (May 26, 2011)

Thank you Pooh!  I agree with everything you said in this thread.  truth.com

We had this discussion before not that long ago that showed that me and you have really tightly coiled hair and that is what caused our high shrinkage rate.  The smaller the coil/kinks, the tighter the shrinkage...I've never seen a person with tight coils/kinks magically turn to type 2 once their hair gets longer


----------



## Pharmgirl247 (May 26, 2011)

Op, her hair fits into the 4b category. I'm new here to the forum. My hair is similar to hers and I consider my hair to be 4b. I'm new. And don't know how to post pics or I would post a pic from my iPhone. I'm new to the forum lol. I thought she was my hair twin but she wears twistouts. Nothing wrong with that but I don't stretch my hair period. I wear it 100 shrunk.


----------



## knt1229 (May 26, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Yes it does @ the bolded.  The tighter the curl, the more shrinkage you will have. And weight is a factor with shrinkage. Hair type has nothing to do with how dry, silky, thick, or thin your hair is.
> 
> Type 1 - Straight
> Type 2 - Wavy
> ...



But if, according to you, her hair is wavy like a type 2 then why is it so bushy? Her hair has alot of volume. The amount of bushiness she has plus the length and weight seems to suggest a tighter curl pattern not a looser one. Type 1 and Type 2's don't have bushy hair like that especially not when wet.


----------



## ms-gg (May 26, 2011)

^Because she has afro textured hair. It is a kinky texture but her texture is not a tightly coiled/kinked texture.  She has loose waves/kinks/curls/coils.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

knt1229 said:


> But if, according to you, her hair is wavy like a type 2 then why is it so bushy. Her hair has alot of volume. The amount of bushiness she has plus the length and weight seems to suggest a tighter curl pattern not a looser one. Type 1 and Type 2's don't have bushy hair like that especially not when wet.



Bushiness doesn't mean it's Type 4. There are several Type 4s that have thin non-bushy hair. The thing that makes someone's hair Type 4 is the very tight curl or coil pattern...like little tiny springs that shrink up.  

HairCrush does not have that. She has all that bushiness because her hair is thick/coarse and long.  And you can't say type 1s and type 2s don't have bushy hair like that. If you haven't seen it for yourself, then that's different. I've actually seen non-black women (mainly white) with type 1 and 2 hair that is thick and bushy. I'm sure you probably have too but just didn't think about it when you saw it...


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

Nonie said:


> ~Sparklingflame~ you know whose hair it reminds me of? My idol Yassylane's. If you look through the album, there are pics of braidouts that look like that and also of her shrunken hair that looks like this lady's shrunken hair.



Yassylane has more of a curl pattern to her hair and has more shrinkage than HairCrush. When Yassylane's hair is stretched out, it looks similar to HairCrush, but Yassylane has to stretch her hair out to get it to look like HairCrush, just like any other natural who has major shrinkage.


----------



## LongCurlz (May 26, 2011)

kinky 3B/3C


----------



## sylver2 (May 26, 2011)

wow!! her hair is gorgeous!! thats a lot of hair!! id go with thick 4a mixed w/ 3c.


----------



## knt1229 (May 26, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> ^Because she has afro textured hair. It is a kinky texture but her texture is not a tightly coiled/kinked texture.  She has loose waves/kinks/curls/coils.



I don't see loose waves. I see type 4 hair. Apparently, hair typing is subjective. 

However, the definition of a kink is a tight curl soooo......


----------



## knt1229 (May 26, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Bushiness doesn't mean it's Type 4. There are several Type 4s that have thin non-bushy hair. The thing that makes someone's hair Type 4 is the very tight curl or coil pattern...like little tiny springs that shrink up.
> 
> HairCrush does not have that. She has all that bushiness because her hair is thick/coarse and long.  And you can't say type 1s and type 2s don't have bushy hair like that. If you haven't seen it for yourself, then that's different. I've actually seen non-black women (mainly white) with type 1 and 2 hair that is thick and bushy. I'm sure you probably have too but just didn't think about it when you saw it...



Yea, I've seen it and I don't think they are 1's and 2's either. But like I said I don't see type 2. Her hair doesn't appear wavy to me.


----------



## Nonie (May 26, 2011)

How are you guys using kinky and loose curls in the same sentence to describe the same hair? Unless you mean she has two types of hair textures going on in her head, you cannot talk about "tightly coiled" (kinky) and loose coils. 

Also Poohbear, are you saying the blonde lady you posted has type 1 or 2 hair? 

How does Haircrush wash her hair? From the pics posted of her shorter hair it does look like it could be 3C/4A. If she washes her hair in braids, it could explain the stretch. Because in the other still pics of her hair, it looks very type 4-ish. Reminds me a bit of ~~HoneyComb~~'s hair.


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> Thank you Dr. Mwedzi.  I have been a constant protective styler for almost 5 years and my texture has never changed permanently to a looser type.  I'm just saying


it's reaching.com


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Yes it does @ the bolded.  The tighter the curl, the more shrinkage you will have. And weight is a factor with shrinkage. Hair type has nothing to do with how dry, silky, thick, or thin your hair is.
> 
> Type 1 - Straight
> Type 2 - Wavy
> ...


thank you!!!!!!


----------



## appplecidder (May 26, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Yes it does @ the bolded.  The tighter the curl, the more shrinkage you will have. And weight is a factor with shrinkage. Hair type has nothing to do with how dry, silky, thick, or thin your hair is.
> 
> Type 1 - Straight
> Type 2 - Wavy
> ...



Agreed

Sent from my MB200 using Long Hair Care Forum App


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

knt1229 said:


> But if, according to you, her hair is wavy like a type 2 then why is it so bushy? Her hair has alot of volume. The amount of bushiness she has plus the length and weight seems to suggest a tighter curl pattern not a looser one. Type 1 and Type 2's don't have bushy hair like that especially not when wet.


see that's problem.  everyone sees bushiness and says only 4's have bushy hair.  Bushiness has nothing to doo with curl size.  There are bushy wavies and silky type 3's and 4's.  Sheena in this thread is a perfet example of someone with a silky tight pattern.  It works both ways.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

Nonie said:


> How are you guys using kinky and loose curls in the same sentence to describe the same hair? Unless you mean she has two types of hair textures going on in her head, you cannot talk about "tightly coiled" (kinky) and loose coils.
> 
> Also Poohbear, are you saying the blonde lady you posted has type 1 or 2 hair?
> 
> How does Haircrush wash her hair? From the pics posted of her shorter hair it does look like it could be 3C/4A. If she washes her hair in braids, it could explain the stretch. Because in the other still pics of her hair, it looks very type 4-ish. Reminds me a bit of ~~HoneyComb~~'s hair.



You're right Nonie. Kinky shouldn't be used to describe her hair since kinky technically means tightly curled.   Maybe we should be saying frizzy dry coarse type 2c hair.

Regardless, her hair is not curly or coily at all. There are no springs in her hair. Just coarse frizzy non-silky waves.

And yes, I feel like the picture of the blonde haired lady is type 2 hair.

I'm not sure how she washes her hair. I haven't seen very many of her videos because of her hair type. I usually watch channels of people's hair who have similar hair types to mine.


----------



## WantNatural (May 26, 2011)

Her hair is just ridiculous!  It's so incredibly thick, and very beautiful.  I've followed her fotki for a while, I have absolutely no idea about her hair type, nor do I care.  But it's interesting to see what you ladies think.


----------



## Wildchild453 (May 26, 2011)

Dying @ Type 2


----------



## Nonie (May 26, 2011)

I wish we could see her hair dripping wet unmanipulated. If I had my hair in braids and then undid the braids as my hair was in the process of drying or almost dry, it'd have no curl--especially if I was manipulating it during the wash by brushing. Not sure if she did all of that but just throwing it out there.


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

Nonie said:


> I wish we could see her hair dripping wet unmanipulated. If I had my hair in braids and then undid the braids as my hair was in the process of drying or almost dry, it'd have no curl--especially if I was manipulating it during the wash by brushing. Not sure if she did all of that but just throwing it out there.


i posted a vid early on and told everyone to skip to 4:35 to see it.  Clearly NOBODY watched it or skipped to that part to see it dripping wet and naked


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

SND411 said:


> People who are not 4B, ESPECIALLY those in the 3 category cant stand the fact that Chime's hair looks better than their own. So they demote her to a lower hair category. Remember not all, but a lot them do this.





SND411 said:


> Oh,  I read that thread. I have my own conclusions on why 4B women do this. Doesnt dissolve the fact that women with looser curls do the same.



I haven't noticed this trend in your posts above, and I don't see why anyone with type 4 hair would do that or feel that way. That's ridiculous if some do that. But why would you flat out just say type 4bs think Chime's hair or someone with looser hair texture looks better than their own? so they demote her hair texture to a lower hair category? What? How would you know that without having a personal conversation with that type 4b woman?

But anyway, how would you explain why some of the type 2s and type 3s (mainly on youtube) who swear up and down that their hair is type 4 and the nappiest kinkiest hair on the planet?


----------



## ms-gg (May 26, 2011)

I give up. She has characteristics of 2's-4's.  There are a few "straight hair naturals" that are floating around the internet that share her lack of tight shrinkage (Jazitone is one, Natitwists was another one but her album is closed)

Her hair reminds me of these wigs:


----------



## aquajoyice (May 26, 2011)

Her hair is Type Beautiful lol. She is some kind of 4 but I dont care i'm drooling over this woman's hair!


----------



## Nonie (May 26, 2011)

WantNatural, your hair in your siggy looks the way her hair did in some pics someone posted.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

Nonie said:


> I wish we could see her hair dripping wet unmanipulated. If I had my hair in braids and then undid the braids as my hair was in the process of drying or almost dry, it'd have no curl--especially if I was manipulating it during the wash by brushing. Not sure if she did all of that but just throwing it out there.



Nonie - here's a deep conditioning video of her hair. Skip to 10:28 to see her wet hair after rinsing out the conditioner: http://www.youtube.com/user/HairCrush#p/u/11/hk0QJxQ7has


----------



## Nonie (May 26, 2011)

Kurlee, I never read an entire thread when it is as long as this. I actually only jump to posts where I am mentioned and then might glimpse a few posts. So same vid OP posted?


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> Oh.  The way it was typed, I think a word was missing or something. I type hair based on the curl tightness NOT on silkiness and all that.  There are kinky type 2's and 3's whose hair is afroey looking while still having a loose texture and there are silky/fine type 4 with really tight  curls.  I saw a video of her and she shows her naked wet hair in it around 4:30.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTJBfe6lzDo
> 
> That is not type 4.  She doesn't seem to define her hair much.


Nonie, skip to 4:35


----------



## knt1229 (May 26, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> see that's problem.  everyone sees bushiness and says only 4's have bushy hair.  Bushiness has nothing to doo with curl size.  There are bushy wavies and silky type 3's and 4's.  Sheena in this thread is a perfet example of someone with a silky tight pattern.  It works both ways.



Well we have to agree to disagree. I have only ever known curly heads to have bushy hair. The bushy hair stems from the frizziness of curly hair. I can't comment on Sheena's hair because it's not my hair and it's not what we are debating. However, considering Sheena has curly hair I would bet money that if she brushed it out it would be frizzy and bushy. So yea 3's and 4's definitely have bushy frizzy hair. But the real kicker here is that Chime's hair is bushy even when it's wet based on the vid in the OP. A type 2's hair wouldn't have that volume/bushiness when wet.


----------



## Nonie (May 26, 2011)

Kurlee and Poohbear thanks for the vids. Will check them out in the AM because I have just been reminded that normal pple are in bed  so let me go feign some normalcy.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

Nonie - here's another video http://www.youtube.com/user/HairCrush#p/u/16/sFMkR6MZgOY. It's a twistout video, but *skip to 1:15* to see a section of her hair wet.  Her wet hair looks "wavy straight" and as it starts to dry, it looks pretty much the same.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Kurlee and Poohbear thanks for the vids. Will check them out in the AM because I have just been reminded that normal pple are in bed  so let me go feign some normalcy.



:scratchch I'm not normal!  

But I can't believe I'm awake right now...up in this hair typing thread!  I can't sleep for some odd reason...  _*LHCF is the devil!*_ I should be sleep knowing I got to be at work in less than 6 hours.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

Ms Lala is a prime example of a true type 4a/b....very tightly coiled and major shrinkage. Check out her hair in this hair washing video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjhwlCJIKIQ


----------



## Wildchild453 (May 26, 2011)

^^ I hate that phrase 'true type whatever" like anyone who's hair doesn't exhibit those exact properties is lying/wrong in some way.


----------



## wavezncurlz (May 26, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Yes it does @ the bolded.  The tighter the curl, the more shrinkage you will have. And weight is a factor with shrinkage. Hair type has nothing to do with how dry, silky, thick, or thin your hair is.
> 
> Type 1 - Straight
> Type 2 - Wavy
> ...



Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree. According to your theory,  my "type" should have much less shrinkage than I do.  I don't think shrinkage is as black and white as this. There are shades of grey.


Also, I do not see type 2 hair on that white lady. .  I bet if you asked her what her type was, she'd never say 2. We need to give up this mess and if we must describe our hair, explain its properties without numbers.


----------



## mousee09 (May 26, 2011)

i dont understand why someone who has 4 type hair why it cant be long? it has to be another texture.it cant possible be 4 type hair.... 

to agree to disagree i guess.


----------



## SerenavanderWoodsen (May 26, 2011)

Her hair is AMAZING! It's kinky when dry yet only wavy when wet and the weight and hang is unheard of for that texture. I'm completely puzzled but in disbelief at how much hair she has!! She's so beautiful!


----------



## FlowerHair (May 26, 2011)

serendipity said:


> Having looked at her Fotki,
> 
> http://members.fotki.com/lifesacatwalk/about/
> 
> I'm now convinced she's a coarse 3b/c with some 4a in the front. Here are some pics of her hair at a shorter length:


 
Her hair looks very 3c/4a here IMO...

I say that just to add fuel to the fire! LOL!


----------



## serendipity (May 26, 2011)

FlowerHair said:


> Her hair looks very 3c/4a here IMO...
> 
> I say that just to add fuel to the fire! LOL!



I guess we'll have to agree to disagree-the diameter of the curls I see on the ends in the pics I posted is too large to be type 4(except for the patch in the front). That's 3b/c curl size. I think the weight + coarseness of her hair is what's throwing things off.




knt1229 said:


> Well we have to agree to disagree. I have only ever known curly heads to have bushy hair. *The bushy hair stems from the frizziness of curly hair*. I can't comment on Sheena's hair because it's not my hair and it's not what we are debating. However, considering Sheena has curly hair I would bet money that if she brushed it out it would be frizzy and bushy. So yea 3's and 4's definitely have bushy frizzy hair. But the real kicker here is that Chime's hair is bushy even when it's wet based on the vid in the OP. A type 2's hair wouldn't have that volume/bushiness when wet.



Bushy hair can be a result of tight coils or in this case coarse, dense strands.  The reason why her her looks ambiguous is because her strands don't have the silkiness commonly associated with the looser textures. I have seen plenty of Asians-Japanese and Indian with very bushy hair because of coarseness.Her hair is like a coarser version of GoingNatural's who is a clear cut 2c/3b/c.  

*Type 4a-Extremely small corkscrews, pencil head diameter or smaller

Type 4b-Extremely tight waves, very little spacing between them (less than 1cm)
*


knt1229 you and Sheena have the small curl diameter characteristic of type 4. The loops you see in Chime's hair are for the most part way larger than a pencil head, therefore disqualifying her from being a type 4 in the main.
The determinant of hair type is curl/wave size not silkiness,bushiness or coarseness. People are used to seeing coarse type 4's and silky type 3's so not surprisingly a coarse type 2 or type 3 can be mistaken for type 4 which I think is the case here.


----------



## Vshanell (May 26, 2011)

wavezncurlz said:


> *didn't I tell ya'll that shrinkage has nothing to do with hair type and how much it curls/not curls. I think it's weight. Think CelinaStarr - her hair is heavy, thick and has very little shrinkage. Finer ladies like me, regardless of the fact that it has more wave than curls, shrinks as much as some of the ladies with 4 hair.* My hair shrinks as much as 50% and people are always shocked to hear that I'm WL until my hair is flat ironed.
> 
> @kblc06 I agree, her hair reminds me of curly/wavy Polynesian hair (I know that not all people of Polynesian have this hair but I see it a lot) - I also mentioned this before.


I agree.  Over the years and through much observation on hair boards I've come to realize this.  I've seen people with my texture or tighter (same or close to same length) have much less shrinkage than me because they have heavier strands.  My hair is very fine and I know now that's the reason it shrinks the way it does.  I was baffled by this for some time though.  I'm not sure how much percentage but it's crazy lol.  At hip-length when fully shrunken my hair is above apl.  Sometimes I wonder where all that hair went....I have to stretch it on occasion to make sure it's still there.


----------



## carameldimples (May 26, 2011)

Chime has long beautiful hair, no disputing that but why is it that if you don't believe she is in the 4 range that people feel that has something to do with you thinking type 4 hair can't grow, I am a 4 and I am very confident mine can, I am BSL now....I just don't think her hair has the properties of a 4.  And for anybody who says that I am thinking inside the box, yes the type 4 box and it is categorized for a reason, Chime's hair looks like a coarse version of Tatiyana Ali/Chili type of hair.  It is just looks waaaayyyy more stronger and resilient.  Most people look at 4 type hair and it has the strong look but we all know it is the most fragile, well Chime's hair has that strong and thick look of a 4 but she has the waves and lack of kinks like a 3b or something.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

mousee09 said:


> *i dont understand why someone who has 4 type hair why it cant be long?* it has to be another texture.it cant possible be 4 type hair....
> 
> to agree to disagree i guess.





carameldimples said:


> Chime has long beautiful hair, no disputing that but *why is it that if you don't believe she is in the 4 range that people feel that has something to do with you thinking type 4 hair can't grow*, I am a 4 and I am very confident mine can, I am BSL now....I just don't think her hair has the properties of a 4.  And for anybody who says that I am thinking inside the box, yes the type 4 box and it is categorized for a reason, Chime's hair looks like a coarse version of Tatiyana Ali/Chili type of hair.  It is just looks waaaayyyy more stronger and resilient.  Most people look at 4 type hair and it has the strong look but we all know it is the most fragile, well Chime's hair has that strong and thick look of a 4 but she has the waves and lack of kinks like a 3b or something.



Who is saying Type 4 hair can't be long or can't grow? erplexed Just because people don't agree HairCrush's hair is Type 4 doesn't mean they don't think Type 4 hair can grow like hers. It can! Look at Ms Lala who has the same length as hers.  There are several other Type 4 ladies (tightly coiled) with very long waist length hair.


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

Wildchild453 said:


> ^^ I hate that phrase 'true type whatever" like anyone who's hair doesn't exhibit those exact properties is lying/wrong in some way.


Wildchild453 - I didn't say people are lying. Don't put words in my mouth. All I've been doing is respectfully giving my opinion based on my own eyes which was I think Ms Lala is a true type 4a/b and I do not think HairCrush is type 4a/b. *Of course there is no true ultimate absolute type 4a/b.* Plus, 4a/b is a mixture of two types $a and 4b anyway.


----------



## carameldimples (May 26, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Who is saying Type 4 hair can't be long or can't grow? erplexed Just because people don't agree HairCrush's hair is Type 4 doesn't mean they don't think Type 4 hair can grow like hers. It can! Look at Ms Lala who has the same length as hers.  There are several other Type 4 ladies (tightly coiled) with very long waist length hair.




Yea...that's what I was saying....and at the end of the day....her type has no bearing on how beautiful her hair is...that's my final stance on it, it doesn't matter, her hair is her hair and it is beautiful...back to the regular scheduled program of continuing in our very own HHJ! 


Gotta step my nape game up...typing chime's hair is not gonna do anything for that, let me go find some productive posts to lurk in...LOL


----------



## Poohbear (May 26, 2011)

wavezncurlz said:


> Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree. According to your theory,  my "type" should have much less shrinkage than I do.  I don't think shrinkage is as black and white as this. There are shades of grey.
> 
> 
> Also, I do not see type 2 hair on that white lady. .  I bet if you asked her what her type was, she'd never say 2. We need to give up this mess and if we must describe our hair, explain its properties without numbers.



How would my theory say that your hair type should have more shrinkage than it does? This isn't my theory.... this is the basics of Andre's system which is very general and vague to begin with. 

And the picture of the white lady I posted, I believe her hair is type 2....it's wavy with no curl/coil pattern. It's just very dense and thick and long.

And I have been describing the properties of HairCrush's hair along with the number and letter from Andre's system. HairCrush's hair is dry, frizzy, coarse/thick, non-silky, wavy, and type 2C...no curl/coil pattern, no shrinkage. Now if that's a picture of her hair manipulated, blowdried, or stretched out, then that's a different story.

Based on the pictures I've seen of your hair wavezncurlz, your hair is curlier than HairCrush's. Your hair isn't as dense nor dry as her hair. You're a silky type 3a of some sort.  You have more shrinkage than HairCrush which makes your hair type higher than hers. And there's nothing wrong with that. You both have beautiful hair.


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (May 26, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> everyone is puzzyfooting around it



Basically!!!  
I find all the sarcasm very interesting, e.g. "Cause u know type 4 hair cain't be lawng!" comments.  Is this really still an issue?  Sera and I'm sure there are others clearly demonstrate the existence long kinky type 4 hair, but if you mention her it's "OHHH and God forbid her hair is coarse and kinky!!!"  Yeah, I caught that.  What gives?  I can't figure out if there really is a concern that people still have these antiquated notions (despite plenty of evidence to the contrary), OR...if there's some sort of kinkier than thou gestapo looking for "good hair/bad hair" references in every comment. 

I really want to know:  Why is is so hard to take Chime out of the 4 category?  In this corner, we have:  "Ya'll just can't accept a long type 4!"  And in the other we have "She can't be type 2/3/fill in the blank!"  Now whassup with that?


----------



## MilkChocolateOne (May 26, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> Basically!!!
> I find all the sarcasm very interesting, e.g. "Cause u know type 4 hair cain't be lawng!" comments.  Is this really still an issue?  Sera and I'm sure there are others clearly demonstrate the existence long kinky type 4 hair, but if you mention her it's "OHHH and God forbid her hair is coarse and kinky!!!"  Yeah, I caught that.  What gives?  I can't figure out if there really is a concern that people still have these antiquated notions (despite plenty of evidence to the contrary), OR...if there's some sort of kinkier than thou gestapo looking for "good hair/bad hair" references in every comment.
> 
> I really want to know:*  Why is is so hard to take Chime out of the 4 category?*  In this corner, we have:  "Ya'll just can't accept a long type 4!"  And in the other we have "She can't be type 2/3/fill in the blank!"  Now whassup with that?




I think* some* people feel like chime's hair is too "nappy" to be anything other than type 4.  They are confusing curl/wave size with texture.  Andre's system only types hair according to the presence of a wave/curl, the shape of the wave/curl, and the size of that wave/curl.  He doesn't mention texture at all.  Some people fail to realize that no hair type has a monopoly on texture.  Silky hair is not exclusive to types 1-3. Cotton/kinky/ highly textured  hair is not exclusive to type 4.   


**mandatory disclaimers**

notice, I said some people not all

I* know* type 4 hair can grow long. I have seen many examples in real life and online. 

I am not jealous of anyone's hair.

I am not hating. 

I do understand the negative connotations surrounding the word nappy.  I also understand and respect why some people are offended by the term and why they do not use it.  However I use it as a descriptive term and I do not think there is anything wrong with having nappy hair.  If it makes you feel better replace the word nappy with kinky.


----------



## SophieDulce (May 26, 2011)

Damn, If i had the money I would buy her a HD camera,  if her hair looks like that with that blurry cam? can you imagine what it looks like with a high quality cam? HAIRRR PORRNNN

but seriously, My hair may have a little more curl definition that her's but if I comb it out, it looks exactly the same..She looks like a 4a too me.. I have never ever seen anyone in the 3c category with hair like that..


----------



## lilyofthenile (May 26, 2011)

My jaw just drops...

:lovedrool: 

Beautiful hair.


----------



## lilyofthenile (May 26, 2011)

SophieDulce said:


> Damn, If i had the money I would buy her a HD camera,  if her hair looks like that with that blurry cam? *can you imagine what it looks like with a high quality cam? HAIRRR PORRNNN*
> 
> but seriously, My hair may have a little more curl definition that her's but if I comb it out, it looks exactly the same..She looks like a 4a too me.. I have never ever seen anyone in the 3c category with hair like that..



HECK YEAH!!


----------



## SophieDulce (May 26, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> skip to 4:40.



when my hair is wet it looks 3c because its weighed down and shiny, but as soon as it dries it look nothing like 3c..my daughter has 3c and our hair is completely different. 

She has Big, shiny, fine curls. 
Mine are little and tight and not so shiny,


----------



## Wildchild453 (May 26, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Wildchild453 - I didn't say people are lying. Don't put words in my mouth. All I've been doing is respectfully giving my opinion based on my own eyes which was I think Ms Lala is a true type 4a/b and I do not think HairCrush is type 4a/b. *Of course there is no true ultimate absolute type 4a/b.* Plus, 4a/b is a mixture of two types $a and 4b anyway.



Poohbear - I never accused you of saying anyone was lying. If you read it that way, my bad however I stated that I didn't like the phrase "true type 4a, true type 2b, etc" because it creates a very rigid box for something that is totally subjective. Example, you thinking Chime is a 2b while I think she falls into a 4a category.

I brought up lying bc I've seen in similar threads about 'gurus' that people have accused those with perceived looser textures of faking the funk to be down with the majority of people on message boards when their hair doesn't fit into that box.

All I said was that the phrase creates this box that automatically shoves anyone's whose hair doesn't act exactly like that out of it even if they belong in the category.


----------



## SophieDulce (May 26, 2011)

I think she has type 4 hair that hangs down, instead of up


----------



## Embyra (May 26, 2011)

Sheena284 said:


> And just to add to what I was saying before.
> 
> When someone comes in here and starts complaining about how a certain curl defining product didn't work for them and didn't define, people are always quick to say things like, "It will only define what's already there," and "It doesn't CREATE curls, just enhances them." and stuff like that.
> 
> ...



tell them! Sheena284


----------



## nubiennze (May 26, 2011)

ms-gg said:


>



ms-gg where can I get this one?


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (May 26, 2011)

MilkChocolateOne said:


> I think* some* people feel like chime's hair is too "nappy" to be anything other than type 4.  They are confusing curl/wave size with texture.  Andre's system only types hair according to the presence of a wave/curl, the shape of the wave/curl, and the size of that wave/curl.  He doesn't mention texture at all.  Some people fail to realize that no hair type has a monopoly on texture.  Silky hair is not exclusive to types 1-3. Cotton/kinky/ highly textured  hair is not exclusive to type 4.
> 
> 
> **mandatory disclaimers**
> ...



I think it would HELP if all the pics of the other hair types had something other than white women demonstrating them.  I really can't understand why there is no black version of a wavy hair pattern.  We see it all the time.  It makes it confusing as to whether it's really about curl pattern or if Type 4 is reserved for the coarse afro-type hair, no matter what kind of texture/curl/wave pattern you have.  Some wave patterns are so shallow, they basically look straight. Could that ever possibly be type 1?


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> Basically!!!
> I find all the sarcasm very interesting, e.g. "Cause u know type 4 hair cain't be lawng!" comments.  Is this really still an issue?  Sera and I'm sure there are others clearly demonstrate the existence long kinky type 4 hair, but if you mention her it's "OHHH and God forbid her hair is coarse and kinky!!!"  Yeah, I caught that.  What gives?  I can't figure out if there really is a concern that people still have these antiquated notions (despite plenty of evidence to the contrary), OR...if there's some sort of kinkier than thou gestapo looking for "good hair/bad hair" references in every comment.
> 
> I really want to know:  Why is is so hard to take Chime out of the 4 category?  In this corner, we have:  "Ya'll just can't accept a long type 4!"  And in the other we have "She can't be type 2/3/fill in the blank!"  Now whassup with that?



Ok, I guess I'll just say it.

I think type 4's don't want her to be a 4b, because deep down the insecurity of their hair type/acceptance still lurks, so to pacify themselves they categorize her as a looser hair type because those hair types are the "good" hair types, which explains why (in the good hair/bad hair mentality) her hair is so long and thick, and maybe makes them feel better about working on their hair for so long and not having remotely the same progress.

I think the lower hair types (3 and down) think her hair, despite it's length, doesn't have the "silk" and "shine" that qualify it as "good" hair, so it's like, " i'm a type 3 and that ish is too nappy to be like my hair", despite her curl pattern when wet and unmanipulated is a HELL of a lot looser than those who insist on the 4b categorization.  Also, even though she has the length, she doesn't have the "right" texture, so there's a bit of, "I have "softer" hair and am stuck at APL, WTF"?  A lot of the commentary comes off as disingenuous, insecure and transparent.

How do I feel? 

I like her hair, think it's cool, glad she is shaking up stereotypes and antiquated ideas about afroey hair. I think she has a very loose curl/wave pattern, coupled with very afroey textured hair, which is a totally possible combo, just like there are many silky type 4's.  I think people's hair hangups/issues are coming thru and it's unfortunate that people's minds are soooo narrow in 2011 after being on this forum and seeing a-z hair types thrive, break, stagnate, etc.  I really think the colonial mentality will stay with many regardless of how much proof they see to the contrary.

Basically, the way I see it, both sides are "hating" and projecting but for different reasons.  The similarity between the two is the disbelief and/or colonial mentality about hair as "nappy" textured as hers.


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

nubiennze said:


> @ms-gg where can I get this one?


----------



## serendipity (May 26, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> Ok, I guess I'll just say it.
> 
> I think type 4's don't want her to be a 4b, because deep down the insecurity of their hair type/acceptance still lurks, so to pacify themselves they categorize her as a looser hair type because those hair types are the "good" hair types, which explains why (in the good hair/bad hair mentality) her hair is so long and thick, and maybe makes them feel better about working on their hair for so long and not having remotely the same progress.
> 
> ...



I hear you but frankly I'm somewhat disturbed at this new revelation that 4a/b hair may be trained to hang straight with twist-outs  
I guess pressing combs, relaxers and such were invented for nothing .
I've always found it easier to evaluate hair type with wet, unmanipulated hair but in chime's case, this method is deemed invalid.


----------



## serendipity (May 26, 2011)

nubiennze said:


> ms-gg where can I get this one?



You sure you want that one, it's nappier than chime's hair


----------



## MissSenegal (May 26, 2011)

I need to see a close up of one of her strands but I think she is a 3c 4a mostly 4a but she knows her hair better then anyone.


----------



## CurlyMoo (May 26, 2011)

WOW, her hair looks like it grew a foot since the last video.


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

serendipity said:


> I hear you but frankly *I'm somewhat disturbed at this new revelation that 4a/b hair may be trained to hang straight with twist-outs*
> I guess pressing combs, relaxers and such were invented for nothing .
> *I've always found it easier to evaluate hair type with wet, unmanipulated hair but in chime's case, this method is deemed invalid*.


 that whole thing was just reaching.com.  Disbelief through grasping at straws to "explain" her hair.

I find the second bolded hilarious. It's like the rules change for certain people/hair types. It's all foolishness.


----------



## EllePixie (May 26, 2011)

serendipity said:


> I hear you but frankly* I'm somewhat disturbed at this new revelation that 4a/b hair may be trained to hang straight with twist-outs  *
> I guess pressing combs, relaxers and such were invented for nothing .
> I've always found it easier to evaluate hair type with wet, unmanipulated hair but in chime's case, this method is deemed invalid.



No one said that. NO ONE. All that was said that the pic of her wavy wet hair could have been a result of her hair not fully reverting after a twist out and her washing her hair in twists. The concept really isn't that hard to grasp. It wouldn't be the first person that this has happened to.

If you soak your hair while it's in twists, then take them out, your hair is still going to be in the twist pattern, no?

Kurlee What you're saying may ring somewhat true, but I'm just confused. For the record I consider myself a type 4 and I think she is a type 4a (with some 3c and 4b), so I guess I'm excused from hating.


----------



## ms-gg (May 26, 2011)

nubiennze said:


> @ms-gg where can I get this one?




LOL! Girl I got it from google images.  I think somebody was showing off their new wig or something


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> No one said that. NO ONE. All that was said that the pic of her wavy wet hair could have been a result of her hair not fully reverting after a twist out and her washing her hair in twists. The concept really isn't that hard to grasp. It wouldn't be the first person that this has happened to.
> 
> If you soak your hair while it's in twists, then take them out, your hair is still going to be in the twist pattern, no?
> 
> @Kurlee What you're saying may ring somewhat true, but I'm just confused. For the record I consider myself a type 4 and I think she is a type 4a (with some 3c and 4b), so I guess I'm excused from hating.


I should have put a disclaimer. NOt everyone, JUST SOME.  I think many just like her hair and don't really care, but there are a few that I think are projecting. Oh well, she has gorgeous hair whether she is 4f or 1z. This thread really shouldn't be so long, but the fact that it's so long and they types of comments in are really telling. If she's reading she must be like WTF?!


----------



## EllePixie (May 26, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> I should have put a disclaimer. NOt everyone, JUST SOME.  I think many just like her hair and don't really care, but there are a few that I think are projecting. Oh well, she has gorgeous hair whether she is 4f or 1z. This thread really shouldn't be so long.



Girl I was playing with you.  It's not that serious to me - I find this laughable. Women, I tell ya, we can make anything a three day discussion!


----------



## ms-gg (May 26, 2011)

At the end of the day, as with all theories, this theory is long overdue for someone to revise it.  It happens all the time in the sciences and this is no exception. His theory is the foundation for which other theories need to be built on.  He set up the classifications in a very vague and incomplete manner, and now with the knowledge that we have, kinkies, curlies, and straight hair people from all hair boards need to revise this theory and come up with a better system that is more in depth and better explains the various categories of wavy, curly and nappy hair.


----------



## bronzebomb (May 26, 2011)

so can we just say she is 3c/4a/4b, with dense, coarse hair? This is a lot discussion to say, she has a mixture of kinky/curly hair...

Chime, if you are reading this...please don't explain your hair texture anymore.

BTW, all the women in her family have long pretty hair and it appears as if they all have slighty different textures...and the mother and father are African American.


----------



## Junebug D (May 26, 2011)

It's totally off-base to say people think she's not type 4 just because her hair is long. We have our very own Mwedzi here and as far as I can remember, no one's ever thought she was anything other than 4b.  So i think it's just totally off-base to say that's the only reason why people think that girl is not type 4 when we do have long-haired type 4s here who no one would ever mistake as a type 3. But if she is mostly or only taking pics and recording videos when her hair is in twistouts, perhaps that is why people are confused? Why does it have to be something sinister or "self-hating"? That word needs to be retired.


----------



## Kurlee (May 26, 2011)

Junebug D said:


> It's totally off-base to say people think she's not type 4 just because her hair is long. We have our very own Mwedzi here and as far as I can remember, no one's ever thought she was anything other than 4b.  So i think it's just totally off-base to say that's the only reason why people think that girl is not type 4 when we do have long-haired type 4s here who no one would ever mistake as a type 3. But if she is mostly or only taking pics and recording videos when her hair is in twistouts, perhaps that is why people are confused? Why does it have to be something sinister or "self-hating"? That word needs to be retired.


if it were really that simple, the thread would not be 220 posts long.


----------



## SheenaVee (May 26, 2011)

Embyra said:


> tell them! @Sheena284



LMAO!! 0_0 Leave me out of this!

Embrya I was actually thinking of your thread when I wrote that part! lol!


----------



## Junebug D (May 26, 2011)

Oh I'm not addressing the multiple twists and turns and trying to discover why her hair looks the way it does and whether or not its trained and all that jazz.  I was addressing the implication that people were saying she's not type 4 _only_ because her hair is long. I do think that's off-base for the reason I stated. Much of the thread *is* wondering what her hair is doing and how it's doing it. I don't necessarily see anything sinister about that, it just tells me that people are curious about her hair.


----------



## SheenaVee (May 26, 2011)

Ok, so I didn't really wanna get involved in the whole 'discussion' of her hair type but just wanted to say,

Her hair does have waves but they are small waves. Like, when hair has small curls and you stretch it out into an S shape and it makes small waves. Isn't type 2 supposed to be LARGE waves? Like, some of my hair doesn't  curl, it just waves. But the waves are small like my curl size.

IMO I think if her hair strands weren't so thick and heavy they would form curls, but because the curls are stretched out they become waves. Isn't that what happens to people with really thick, curly hair? When it gets longer and heavier, the curls stretch out and look like waves, and it might have a few spirals on the end of some strands but that's it. Celinnastar(sp?) comes to mind. And that other lady who does the conditioner only method, the one with the really long hair, Terri, I think? Chime's hair just seems too coarse to even have those spirals on the end.

IMO her hair is like a 3c,4a with some 4b parts. I voted 4a/4b in the poll but I've since changed my mind.


----------



## SimplyBlessed (May 26, 2011)

Omg this thread, is still going?

Seriously her hair is constantly stretched out thick and long so yea her hair Is going to hang and plus she always has twists outs so yea the pattern is going to hold...

Sent from my HTC Glacier using HTC Glacier


----------



## Nonie (May 26, 2011)

serendipity said:


> *Type 4a-Extremely small corkscrews, pencil head diameter or smaller
> 
> Type 4b-Extremely tight waves, very little spacing between them (less than 1cm)
> *




serendipity Uhmm...my 4B is not wavy at all, neither is any that I have seen. LOL 











It's only wavy if I braid it





or stretch it with my fingers. 




It probably could be wavy if I brushed it but I don't like brushes. 

IMO the difference between 4A and 4B is 4B coils are tinier than 4A and therefore hard to see unless one is really close. The thread @tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT started asking us to insert 4B hair pics clearly shows you that 4B is not wavy hair...unless it's manipulated to be. 

@Kurlee and @Poohbear, after seeing the clips you posted (Thanks so much for the tips to FF to the important parts coz I do not sit through long YT vids), I am convinced she's 3C/4A. Her hair behaves the way I see @LynnieB's hair and @~~HoneyComb~~'s hair behave. She probably has a porous hair (not saying that like it's a bad thing but some people do and some don't, and she herself did give evidence of that by saying how fast it dries) which means it absorbs water easily and is thus weighed down by it creating the waves. If she were not stroking her hair and just let it dry, I bet my bottom dollar it'd look wavy...the way curls look when stretched out. It would not shrink up the way another 3C/4A hair might because it's heavy (coarse) and long. Her hair is not type 2 or 1, IMO. It's not 3A or 3B either. Nor is it 100% 3C. It's got the characteristics of 3C and 4A. I do think coarse strands do hang more if long because gravity is able to exert more force on the strands. Also I do believe that long hair that weighed down by moisture may behave the way hair does when shingled. The base of the hair closer to the scalp is the first to dry...but it does so being weighed down by the lower part of hair that is still heavy with water...and so the base is set in a stretched state. And so on. By the time the ends are drying fully, they have been pulling down on the length of the hair due to the water that has been flowing down toward them in obedience to gravity...thus making them feel like a weight pulling on the strands.


----------



## serendipity (May 26, 2011)

Nonie said:


> serendipity Uhmm...my 4B is not wavy at all, neither is any that I have seen. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your hair looks like what I consider 4a-it has definite coils. I've always considered 4b to be extremely tight waves, no coils similar to Alek Wek. 






I see quite a few 4a's mistyping themselves as 4b, and 3c's calling themselves 4a.

Nonie-if you believe you aren't 4a, wouldn't 4c be the alternative based on the type diagram?

**4b is actually relatively uncommon, I feel some people who consider their hair to be very kinky just automatically place themselves in this category without fully evaluating their curl pattern.


----------



## omegachick31 (May 26, 2011)

Okay so now what....

This chick made a video *TELLING* people what her hair type was, *NOT ASKING* anyone to tell her what it was...if she says she is a 4A/4B/3C mix who is everyone else to tell her different...She was there during all stages of growth, heat application, washing, conditioning, tangling, shrinkage...all that...Some people slay me with knowing more about you then you know about yourself...Really?


----------



## Embyra (May 26, 2011)

uh oh Nonieyou getting higher up the type chart just like last time


----------



## EllePixie (May 26, 2011)

Who made that stupid hair types chart? By that thing I'm a 2c/3b/c.


----------



## ms-gg (May 26, 2011)

I always thought 4a=coils 4b=z's or in other words, hair that does not have a definite pattern because the pattern is very irregular.  It does not literally look like a sharp "z" but it has nothing but bends, twists, and an irregular pattern. But I ain't going there again with you Nonie lol.  That was a long thread way back in early 2011 lol.


----------



## EllePixie (May 26, 2011)

Embyra said:


> uh oh Nonieyou getting higher up the type chart just like last time



I wonder if it's because her hair has grown?


----------



## Embyra (May 26, 2011)

serendipity said:


> Your hair looks like what I consider 4a-it has definite coils. I've always considered 4b to be extremely tight waves, no coils similar to Alek Wek.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



nonie pics she takes showing her coils are magnified with her fancy camera she uses


----------



## Embyra (May 26, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> I wonder if it's because her hair has grown?



this thread reminds me of my hair typing thread with nonie and irrestible going back and forth (jokingly)

 irrestible was like hold up nonie your curl look just like mine we joked that she was a type 3 ....until nonie made it clear her pics were magnified ahhhh fun times


----------



## knt1229 (May 26, 2011)

serendipity said:


> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree-the diameter of the curls I see on the ends in the pics I posted is too large to be type 4(except for the patch in the front). That's 3b/c curl size. I think the weight + coarseness of her hair is what's throwing things off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm just looking at the vid in the OP and I don't see big curls or loops as you call them. I disregarded many of the pics posted in this thread because those pics are of styled hair. Styled hair can mimic other hair types. Personally, I think that is where the confusion is coming from. Silikiness is a non factor to me. I'm seeing what appears to me to be type 4 hair. 

Also, I find it interesting that you typed my hair from my siggy pic and compared it to Sheena's. Your right it is type 4 but my hair is nothing like Sheena's. Sheena's curl pattern is much larger than mine. There again the mistake of typing styled hair. To you my hair looked similiar to Sheena's but I promise you my hair and her's is very different. 

Same thing with Chime. She typed herself as a type 4 because she sees it and works in it. She knows better than anyone on this board. We are only going by pics and some are going by styled hair. She is a primary example of why hair shouldn't be typed when it has been manipulated.


----------



## Boujoichic (May 26, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Yes it does @ the bolded. The tighter the curl, the more shrinkage you will have. And weight is a factor with shrinkage. Hair type has nothing to do with how dry, silky, thick, or thin your hair is.
> 
> Type 1 - Straight
> Type 2 - Wavy
> ...


 
Type 3 hair can also appear to be an s shaped wave with a curl on the end. Her waves are not very large so I wouldnt say she was a type 2.


----------



## EllePixie (May 26, 2011)

Embyra said:


> this thread reminds me of my hair typing thread with nonie and irrestible going back and forth (jokingly)
> 
> irrestible was like hold up nonie your curl look just like mine we joked that she was a type 3 ....until nonie made it clear her pics were magnified ahhhh fun times



Lolz

Nonie what kind of camera do you have? Does it have video? I need that junx for mah videos...it's sheer hotness.


----------



## Embyra (May 26, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> Lolz
> 
> Nonie what kind of camera do you have? Does it have video? I need that junx for mah videos...it's sheer hotness.




i already asked Canon PowerShot SD850


----------



## EllePixie (May 26, 2011)

Embyra said:


> i already asked Canon PowerShot SD850



I have a PowerShot! I think I just suck at taking photos...


----------



## Embyra (May 26, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> I have a PowerShot! I think I just suck at taking photos...



all i have is a retired camera phone one day i will join the rest of the world with a actual CAMERA smh


----------



## CurlyMoo (May 26, 2011)

serendipity said:


> Your hair looks like what I consider 4a-it has definite coils. I've always considered 4b to be extremely tight waves, no coils similar to Alek Wek.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
According to this chart 4B is more of a zigzag than a coil and I would have thought due to the fact that it's not a defined coil it would be considered 4C. I wonder why it wouldn't be considered a tight 2B due to it's wavy pattern?


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## Cherokee-n-Black (May 26, 2011)

CurlyMoo said:


> According to this chart 4B is more of a zigzag than a coil and I would have thought due to the fact that it's not a defined coil it would be considered 4C. I wonder why it wouldn't be considered a tight 2B due to it's wavy pattern?



'Cause Andre wasn't _really_ talking about curl patterns when he was stereo--oops, excuse me "typing" hair.


----------



## EllePixie (May 26, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> 'Cause Andre wasn't _really_ talking about curl patterns when he was stereo--oops, excuse me "typing" hair.



HAHAHAH, you're funny.


----------



## Nonie (May 26, 2011)

serendipity said:


> Your hair looks like what I consider 4a-it has definite coils. I've always considered 4b to be extremely tight waves, no coils similar to Alek Wek.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



@serendipity OK, as I said before, that chart is the craziest thing I ever saw.  4C aka CNapp is usually the nickname given to manipulated 4B hair. And anyone who claims to have 4C hair does not post pics of coils. Instead, they post pics like this:
















Or like this:





And contrary to what you've heard, 4B hair is not as uncommon as  you think. I think there are more people in Africa with 4B hair than any other. And it's the same thing as 4C/CNapp...just that one is the true type and the other is a nickname for its manipulated form. 4C/CNapp is manipulated 4B hair. 

@serendipity For comparison, the hair on the left below is 4A and the one to the right 4B:





Notice how small the 4B coils are and it isn't easy to see the coils yet the heads are about the same size.

And if you comb it out, the pics below show the comparisons again. Seen from about the same distance, a combed out afro puff on 4A hair can still show that the hair is made of circular shapes because the coils are big enough for their individual shapes to be seen. 4B on the other hand just looks like a cloud with no distinct shape in the strands when viewed from the same distance:







Embyra said:


> uh oh @Nonieyou getting higher up the type chart just like last time



 @Embyra Don't start giving me the giggles all over again.  



EllePixie said:


> Who made that stupid hair types chart? By that thing I'm a 2c/3b/c.



I totally agree. I'd love to see the examples that go with that. 



ms-gg said:


> I always thought 4a=coils 4b=z's or in other words, hair that does not have a definite pattern because the pattern is very irregular.  It does not literally look like a sharp "z" but it has nothing but bends, twists, and an irregular pattern. But I ain't going there again with you @Nonie lol.  That was a long thread way back in early 2011 lol.



 @ms-gg Yep...and IIRC, we did find images of NappyMe's hair clearly showing coils.  I keep telling anyone who claims to have undamaged 4B hair w/o definition to let me have access to their hair for a week. I'll prove it has curls w/o any product. There are already threads where people DC'd their hair and saw coils they never knew they had. No one's hair grows out of their head with sharp corners. If it isn't straight or wavy, it's curly. The end. Show me a 4B head that is growing from bald and I'll show you cute little circles sprouting out from the scalp. It's manipulation to avoid tangling that gives that "no pattern" illusion. 



EllePixie said:


> I wonder if it's because her hair has grown?



 LOL length doesn't change my hair pattern. My hair looks exactly the same as it did when it was short. Here it is about 3 inches long (S Curl applied then combed):




Here it is about full SL (S Curl applied then combed out):





Here it is about 4-5 inches long:





Here it is about Full SL long:





These pics from 2008 finger-combed (no product):





These from 2009 finger-combed base of hair but working toward tips/ends (no product):





These from 2010 not as fully finger-combed as the above pics hence the slight clumping:







Embyra said:


> nonie pics she takes showing her coils are magnified with her fancy camera she uses



Exactly. The true size of the coils is shown in this image below (If you take a ruler and look at the inch side of it and then look at the space of 1/8 inch (the 8 partitions that divide the inch into equal parts), my coils are about size of the distance between those partitions. 






Embyra said:


> this thread reminds me of my hair typing thread with nonie and irrestible going back and forth (jokingly)
> 
> irrestible was like hold up nonie your curl look just like mine we joked that she was a type 3 ....until nonie made it clear her pics were magnified ahhhh fun times



 @Embyra, you're killing me reminding me of that discussion. My juice went up my nose.  



EllePixie said:


> Lolz
> 
> @Nonie what kind of camera do you have? Does it have video? I need that junx for mah videos...it's sheer hotness.





Embyra said:


> i already asked Canon PowerShot SD850



^^ @EllePixie  @Embyra is right.



Cherokee-n-Black said:


> 'Cause Andre wasn't _really_ talking about curl patterns when he was stereo--oops, excuse me "typing" hair.



 True @Cherokee-n-Black. I have even said I'd like Andre to show me the human who isn't undergoing some weird mutation who has hair growing out of his/her head with sharp corners that would be described as zigzag. 4B hair can look zigzag but that's from manipulation. I even have a photo showing my hair all zigzaggy:





But that was because it had been braided. I guarantee that if you took several pen springs and braided them together, you'd get some irregular pattern resulting from that. Hair is no different. But when washed and if well moisturized on the inside and left to its own devices, it'll curl shrink back into the shape of a compressed spring. That's how 4B is anyway. But because of its small kinks, it tangles easily and so no 4B-er trying to see long hair will keep letting it shrink up to show curls--unless detangling is a hobby they enjoy. Most keep the hair stretched so it's always in its manipulated state. The images of CNapp/4C I posted above are the way you're likely to see most 4B hair unless it's short. 

This is 4B hair that is dry as it has been "moisturized" with grease:





This is the same head of hair after DCing and moisturizing with an actual moisturizer not grease--it formed cute little coils not unlike the ones you saw in my hair:





ETA: @EllePixie, my camera does have a video feature but I'm ashamed to say that having never read the manual, I fail miserably at using it as best as it can be used. Not to mention that I'm not at all good at making vids. You've obviously seen my lousy demos in threads. I'd rest it on a bed and sit leaning over it so only my hair is in the frame.  Clearly I am an embarrassment to the makers of the cam when it comes to video taping. But I will read the manual one day. Then y'all won't be able to tell me nuffin!


----------



## candycotton (May 26, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> I dunno. I think we have to agree to disagree. Naked hair doesn't tell the whole story and I think it's inaccurate.


 
ITA..you can't put water or leave-in on 4B hair and make it appear to be 3C..if you have 4B curls, no amount of water is going to increase the diameter of the curl..but if you have 3C size curls, they may be coarse, dry, or frizzy which would make them appear less defined..but that's just my 2 cents I don't even know my own hair type


----------



## SND411 (May 26, 2011)

I have numerous strands that are zig-zag


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## Embyra (May 26, 2011)

SND411 said:


> I have numerous strands that are zig-zag



you know what you need to do....oke:


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## candycan (May 26, 2011)

Love her hair volume! I'll call it VOLUMELICIOUS!


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## Nonie (May 26, 2011)

SND411 said:


> I have numerous strands that are zig-zag



I don't doubt you do. So do I. But they didn't grow out of your head zigzag. They are that way from manipulation and I don't doubt that damage (wear and tear) can make hair appear differently from how it grew out of your head.

BTW a stretched spring when viewed from a certain angle and especially if it is a small one with tiny coils can appear zigzag. Reason for this is the bends are so tiny that they appear pointed. 

This stretched slinky seems to have sharp turns in the middle right above the L that could be called zigzag, but we all know it's a smooth coil all through:






Another zigzag appearance of a stretched coil and the more it is stretched the more open the zigzag appearance would be:






I bet my bottom dollar you don't WNG every single day and just leave your hair to its own devices. You either brush it, comb it, braid it, etc...or you use a type of "moisturizer" like shea butter which IMO just locks hair into whatever manipulated shape you had it in after you applied it. I also think product build up can make hair behave uncharacteristically. 

And I do agree with @Kurlee, dry bare hair doesn't tell the full story. You need to see the hair in many forms to have an idea what type of hair it is. When people post just the same hair photo just seen from many angles, that just tells us what your hair is capable of looking like, not necessarily what type it is. After all, both 4A and the 3's can get a good WNG so posting 20 WNG images unless we can tell the curl size doesn't really tell us where your hair falls. But photos of combed out, bare, wet, drip dried, towel dried...whatever can give a more complete picture of what hair you're working with.

Like I thought Haircrush had a braid-out...but on seeing more of her pics, I see 3C/4A hair. But if she calls it 4A/4B, then who are we to disagree. I mean, there are people who post pics of their hair and ask for opinions and after getting a majority saying one thing, they pick the opinions they prefer and go with that. So to each his own.


----------



## wavezncurlz (May 26, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> How would my theory say that your hair type should have more shrinkage than it does? This isn't my theory.... this is the basics of Andre's system which is very general and vague to begin with.
> 
> And the picture of the white lady I posted, I believe her hair is type 2....it's wavy with no curl/coil pattern. It's just very dense and thick and long.
> 
> ...



I gotta stay out of these threads. I get so caught up. Honestly, I am just in awe of her hair. And I guess we are saying the same thing (I think  )


@ the bold. Thanks -  I wasn't fishing for a compliment. I love her hair, kinda wish mine were as thick and strong looking as hers. I don't even care about the length. I am an admirer from afar and since I'm not able to get all up in her hair, who really knows what type it is  .  In short, I guess the reason I'm all caught up in this thread is that  I'm obsessed with our (AA/biracial/multiracial/whathaveyou) hair, it's so diverse and unique and beautiful. And girlfriend has a healthy beautiful head of hair - No doubt.


----------



## Pharmgirl247 (May 27, 2011)

Hi everyone,
Are there any type 4 on here that hair like this lady?


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## JollyGal (May 27, 2011)

I don't know why this thread is 13 pages long LOL.

Her hair is beautiful. Thanks for posting OP.


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## anon123 (May 27, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> No one said that. NO ONE. All that was said that the pic of her wavy wet hair could have been a result of her hair not fully reverting after a twist out and her washing her hair in twists. The concept really isn't that hard to grasp. It wouldn't be the first person that this has happened to.



Maybe braid trained discussion came up after this post, where someone says Lhdc's hair is braid trained:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?p=13464905&highlight=braid+trained#post13464905



serendipity said:


> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree-the  diameter of the curls I see on the ends in the pics I posted is too  large to be type 4(except for the patch in the front). That's 3b/c curl  size. I think the weight + coarseness of her hair is what's throwing  things off.
> 
> Bushy hair can be a result of tight coils or in this case coarse, dense  strands.  The reason why her her looks ambiguous is because her strands  don't have the silkiness commonly associated with the looser textures. I  have seen plenty of Asians-Japanese and Indian with very bushy hair  because of coarseness.Her hair is like a coarser version of  GoingNatural's who is a clear cut 2c/3b/c.


serendipity What do you mean by coarseness here, that makes hair puffy?  Do you mean strand diameter?  I'm thinking not because many straight haired Asians have thick strands.  Do you mean raised cuticles?  Or . .. .?

I guess that's a general question to people saying that people are typing her hair based on texture rather than curl size.  Not that I disagree, just that I don't understand.  What is "texture"?  Is it the shape of the strand (round vs. flat ribbon) or is it raised cuticles or strand diameter or something else?  What gives "afro texture" if not curl size?


----------



## Poohbear (May 27, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> Who made that stupid hair types chart? By that thing I'm a 2c/3b/c.



EllePixie - The chart that serendipity posted, I don't think it's stupid. I think it actually gives a good idea of each hair type. And what's wrong with your hair being Type 2c/3b/c?  Just in my opinion, when I've seen pictures of your hair, I feel like you are majority Type 3C.


----------



## Poohbear (May 27, 2011)

Nonie - based on you post that I quoted below, how did you come to the conclusion that HairCrush has Type 3C/4A hair?  Your hair is Type 4A/B, and I saw no strands in her hair like yours. I don't see any springs in HairCrush's hair. After she washes her hair, it pretty much hangs straightish/wavy. It doesn't shrink up into tiny little coils like ours. There are no springs...no loose curls, no tight curls.  Are you saying the weight of her hair stretches out the 4A/B strands that dramatically???  



Nonie said:


> serendipity Uhmm...my 4B is not wavy at all, neither is any that I have seen. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## EllePixie (May 27, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> EllePixie - The chart that serendipity posted, I don't think it's stupid. I think it actually gives a good idea of each hair type. And what's wrong with your hair being Type 2c/3b/c?  Just in my opinion, when I've seen pictures of your hair, I feel like you are majority Type 3C.



Well, I find it stupid. Other charts I have seen look totally different, which further emphasizes my point that hair typing (using this system) is bunk. How can various representations of that same system look totally different? It's extremely inconsistent. It seems that people are just pulling evidence they can find that supports their own beliefs.

And there is nothing wrong with being a 2c/3b/c - I am baffled as to how people keep concluding that there is something "wrong" with being a certain hair type just because someone does not think that they are. Why would there be anything wrong with being ANY hair type? It's not that serious. I wouldn't disagree with my hair being a majority of 3c, but like I've said, I don't know my hair type and I don't care - I have been called a 3c, 3c/4a, 4a, or just a type 4. If people find it misleading for me to say that I am a type 4 (which I said for the sake of this convo since at the beginning someone noted my tight curls), please let me know and I'll kindly remove myself from that category. 

When people ask me what hair type I am, I usually say a mix of fractal and corkscrew curls, which I can say with confidence when I look at my hair, unlike Andre's system, where I am always reluctant to say I'm a certain type because people automatically associate a number of performance characteristics to hair that really don't have anything to do with type, and the last thing I want to do make people think that our hair is supposed to act/look the same, when it could be completely different. This is very important to me when people read my blog and ask me questions, especially when they have just bc'ed. I always make a point to tell them that it's best to not compare their hair to others and everyone's hair is different.

For instance, I remember one time Nonie said that 3c hair cannot make a microphone afro, when I certainly have no issues blowing my hair out into a microphone fro. So which is it? I just find the entire thing incredibly confusing.


----------



## Ganjababy (May 27, 2011)

She is gorgeous, and she knows it too lol....................

I don't use a chart grading system on my hair either. It is too confusing to me and my hair reacts and looks different at times depending on its condition.


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> @Nonie - based on you post that I quoted below, how did you come to the conclusion that HairCrush has Type 3C/4A hair?  Your hair is Type 4A/B, and I saw no strands in her hair like yours. I don't see any springs in HairCrush's hair. After she washes her hair, it pretty much hangs straightish/wavy. It doesn't shrink up into tiny little coils like ours. There are no springs...no loose curls, no tight curls.  Are you saying the weight of her hair stretches out the 4A/B strands that dramatically???



@Poohbear My hair is NOT 4A/B. My hair is 100% 4B just like @Foxglove's hair. I don't have any A in it. I just have a good camera that takes great closeups otherwise my curls are too tiny to be 4A anything. Also I can't get a WNG at all the way 4A's and maybe 4A/B's can. (I've always said I don't know what 4A/B is but I do know my hair is 4B. I've no doubt about that.)

I explained how I came to the conclusion that HairCrush's hair is 3C/4A. Her hair behaves the way I see 3C/4A hair behave. I don't know how to else to explain this except exactly as I did in the post I stated this. And if you look at the characteristics of other 3C/4A-ers (not the ones jumping on the new fashion trend but the ones who are without a doubt 3C/4A--also mentioned in my post), you will see how similar their hair is. The one difference you may notice is HairCrush's hair hangs more, and I also explained why I believe that is.   

My post about my hair that you quoted when you asked the above question had nothing to do with HairCrush's hair or my coming to the conclusion she's 3C/4A. LOL That post you quoted was responding to the statement that 4B hair is zigzag and that 4C is made of tiny coils. I disagreed and was using my images to show what I mean.


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> For instance, I remember one time @Nonie said that 3c hair cannot make a microphone afro, when I certainly have no issues blowing my hair out into a microphone fro. So which is it? I just find the entire thing incredibly confusing.



@EllePixie, do you have a photo of that microphone afro? Does it look like this because that's what I have in mind when I talk of microphone afro:







Now maybe short 3C can be made into a somewhat afro. But when I was talking about it, I meant hair that was pretty long. For Type 4 hair to make and afro, we don't even need to blow it out; just comb it out and voilà, an afro! In fact, blowing it out, especially if long, would just make the hair flop the way I expect type 3 hair to flop and be more work to create a microphone 'fro.


----------



## EllePixie (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> EllePixie, do you have a photo of that microphone afro? Does it look like this because that's what I have in mind when I talk of microphone afro:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nonie Yes ma'am, I do! This is microphone, no (I blew out my hair using leave-in condish only - oh, and I styled the front with that side part thingie, it would have stood straight up if I wanted it to, I had to coax it)? I can also comb or brush my dry hair out to look like this - but I blow it out b/c I usually style my hair while it is wet, and on a dry wng I've usually used a styler and combing that out would be a disaster. But I've def detangled on dry hair that had condish on it and combed it out into a fro. I think it would still stand up at this length b/c of my hair texture - it's pretty easy to hold a style and would only flop if it were wet. If my hair was SUPER long, yes, I think it might be an issue to keep it standing up like that, but many type 4s begin to flop when their hair is very long as well, like MsLala (that's her name right?).


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> @EllePixie - The chart that serendipity posted, I don't think it's stupid. I think it actually gives a good idea of each hair type. And what's wrong with your hair being Type 2c/3b/c?  Just in my opinion, when I've seen pictures of your hair, I feel like you are majority Type 3C.



@Poohbear I'm with EllePixie on this. Have you ever seen anyone's hair grow out of their head looking zigzag? Do have pics, coz unless someone has some weird mutation going on in their head, I believe hair follicles produce three pattern: straight, wavy and curly. A follicle would have to be undergoing some spasmodic changes to be spitting out straight, oops, sharp corner bending to left, straight, oops, sharp corner bending to right...to create a hair strand that has a zigzag pattern. And why would this not start at child birth? I am yet to see babies whose hair has never been braided look zigzaggy...especially when really short. And even after you shave it off, it comes in in cute coils. So that chart makes so sense whatsoever. 

That's like saying that Muslim women have brown patterns on their hands and creating a chart for that. And if one didn't know better, that chart would be telling us they are born like that, it is part and parcel of who they are. But it isn't. Their hands are like that because they decorate them with henna. I work with Muslim women who don't have henna on their hands so that chart would exclude them. In short, zigzag hair happens because we did something to our natural pattern. It isn't a characteristic of any hair type, but is a result of manipulation.


----------



## Embyra (May 27, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> Well, I find it stupid. Other charts I have seen look totally different, which further emphasizes my point that hair typing (using this system) is bunk. How can various representations of that same system look totally different? It's extremely inconsistent. It seems that people are just pulling evidence they can find that supports their own beliefs.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with being a 2c/3b/c - I am baffled as to how people keep concluding that there is something "wrong" with being a certain hair type just because someone does not think that they are. Why would there be anything wrong with being ANY hair type? It's not that serious. I wouldn't disagree with my hair being a majority of 3c, but like I've said, I don't know my hair type and I don't care - I have been called a 3c, 3c/4a, 4a, or just a type 4. If people find it misleading for me to say that I am a type 4 (which I said for the sake of this convo since at the beginning someone noted my tight curls), please let me know and I'll kindly remove myself from that category.
> 
> ...



I cannot get a microphone afro from brushing combing or blowdrying....blowdrying would have my hair straight
you can get a afro because your texture allows this as i said before people dont believe 3  CAN have any kind of texture to it similar to a 4 

if your hair is not curly/silky/fine without product then your 4 now i really dont think im crazy when i say your curls look GIGANTIC when compared to say poohbear so kindly remove yourself from the 4 group sorry i couldnt help it


----------



## EllePixie (May 27, 2011)

Embyra said:


> I cannot get a microphone afro from brushing combing or blowdrying....blowdrying would have my hair straight
> you can get a afro because your texture allows this as i said before people dont believe 3 has any kind of texture to it similar to a 4
> 
> if your hair is not curly/silky/fine without product then your 4 now i really dont think im crazy when i say your curls look GIGANTIC when compared to say poohbear so kindly remove yourself from the 4 group sorry i couldnt help it



 You are such a butt. But I do agree with you - a lot of people think that type 3 hair has to be silky and fine, but my texture is clearly more spongy/coarse, which is why I find it so confusing!! I never wanted to put myself in type 3 because I didn't want the texture believers giving me a side eye (Like, "I know dang well she didn't call that kinky stuff type 3 hair..."), but it seems like I get type 4 side eyes too! I'm leaving!!!!


----------



## Kurlee (May 27, 2011)

Embyra said:


> I cannot get a microphone afro from brushing combing or blowdrying....blowdrying would have my hair straight
> you can get a afro because your texture allows this as i said before people dont believe 3  CAN have any kind of texture to it similar to a 4
> 
> if your hair is not curly/silky/fine without product then your 4 now i really dont think im crazy when i say your curls look GIGANTIC when compared to say poohbear so kindly remove yourself from the 4 group sorry i couldnt help it


----------



## Kurlee (May 27, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> @Nonie Yes ma'am, I do! This is microphone, no (I blew out my hair using leave-in condish only - oh, and I styled the front with that side part thingie, it would have stood straight up if I wanted it to, I had to coax it)? I can also comb or brush my dry hair out to look like this - but I blow it out b/c I usually style my hair while it is wet, and on a dry wng I've usually used a styler and combing that out would be a disaster. But I've def detangled on dry hair that had condish on it and combed it out into a fro. I think it would still stand up at this length b/c of my hair texture - it's pretty easy to hold a style and would only flop if it were wet. If my hair was SUPER long, yes, I think it might be an issue to keep it standing up like that, but many type 4s begin to flop when their hair is very long as well, like MsLala (that's her name right?).


that fro is hot


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> @Nonie Yes ma'am, I do! This is microphone, no (I blew out my hair using leave-in condish only - oh, and I styled the front with that side part thingie, it would have stood straight up if I wanted it to, I had to coax it)? I can also comb or brush my dry hair out to look like this - but I blow it out b/c I usually style my hair while it is wet, and on a dry wng I've usually used a styler and combing that out would be a disaster. But I've def detangled on dry hair that had condish on it and combed it out into a fro. I think it would still stand up at this length b/c of my hair texture - it's pretty easy to hold a style and would only flop if it were wet. If my hair was SUPER long, yes, I think it might be an issue to keep it standing up like that, but many type 4s begin to flop when their hair is very long as well, like MsLala (that's her name right?).



EllePixie Interesting. Your hair definitely does defy what I think of 3C. So maybe some 3Cs can make afros if their hair is thick and coarse. I guess I stand corrected. 

Yes, long type 4 hair will flop if stretched, but if MsLala allowed her hair to shrink to its max and then applied some slip like S Curl to comb it, I bet you she'd get BBAMA (bloody big a$$ microphone afro). Kinda like Esperanza Spalding does.


----------



## ms-gg (May 27, 2011)

Some type 3's can get afros.  I don't think microphone afros are a characteristic that should decide if you are a 3 or 4.  It is curl size or how loose the texture is.


----------



## Embyra (May 27, 2011)

Kurlee said:


>


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (May 27, 2011)

Embyra said:


> I cannot get a microphone afro from brushing combing or blowdrying....blowdrying would have my hair straight
> you can get a afro because your texture allows this as i said before people dont believe 3 CAN have any kind of texture to it similar to a 4
> 
> if your hair is not curly/silky/fine without product then your 4 now i really dont think im crazy when i say your curls look GIGANTIC when compared to say poohbear so kindly remove yourself from the 4 group sorry i couldnt help it


 EllePixie you have officially been kicked out of the 4 group, please do not return.  The receptionist will give your belongings on the way out.


----------



## EllePixie (May 27, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> EllePixie you have officially been kicked out of the 4 group, please do not return.  The receptionist will give your belongings on the way out.



Well then, I said gawdd*mn!!! I didn't wanna be a part of your little type 4 club anyway!!!

**Throws a tantrum a la Scarface in Half Baked**

I'M OUT!


ETA: All hair typing threads should be like this...lol


----------



## Kurlee (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @EllePixie Interesting. Your hair definitely does defy what I think of 3C. So maybe some 3Cs can make afros if their hair is thick and coarse. I guess I stand corrected.
> 
> Yes, long type 4 hair will flop if stretched, but if MsLala allowed her hair to shrink to its max and then applied some slip like S Curl to comb it, I bet you she'd get BBAMA (bloody big a$$ microphone afro). Kinda like Esperanza Spalding does.


maybe ur definition is too stringent. My hair is 4a and hangs down


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## Cherokee-n-Black (May 27, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> Some type 3's can get afros. I don't think microphone afros are a characteristic that should decide if you are a 3 or 4. It is curl size or how loose the texture is.


 
Yeah, in my opinion a fro is all about frizz factor, and that really can vary.


----------



## Embyra (May 27, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> EllePixie you have officially been kicked out of the 4 group, please do not return.  The receptionist will give your belongings on the way out.



HILARIOUS!! im at work reading this laughing all loud


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @serendipity OK, as I said before, that chart is the craziest thing I ever saw.  4C aka CNapp is usually the nickname given to manipulated 4B hair. And anyone who claims to have 4C hair does not post pics of coils. Instead, they post pics like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
And after all that explanation...(which was informative, by the way), your hair is the bomb, girl! In all it's coily goodness


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> maybe ur definition is too stringent. My hair is 4a and hangs down



@Kurlee Maybe I'm just uber familiar with fine hair than coarse...plus your hair is long. I also think if we let our hair drip dry, the weight of the water will make it hang and if it's coarse then it will even hang more. But towel drying and then leaving it to dry fully w/o touching it and then applying S Curl and combing out methinks would many any type 4 into a microphone afro. I bet my bottom dollar I could make your hair into an afro, a microphone afro at that.

ETA...now if your hair were much longer...butt and beyond, the microphone might look a bit drunk.


----------



## EllePixie (May 27, 2011)

Embyra said:


> HILARIOUS!! im at work reading this laughing all loud



I am lol'ing too. That's why I don't get how hair typing threads get so heated? Your hair is your hair...no biggie. Kick me out, I'm still fly dangit!!!


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (May 27, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> I am lol'ing too. That's why I don't get how hair typing threads get so heated? Your hair is your hair...no biggie. Kick me out, I'm still fly dangit!!!


 
Are we gonna have to call security?


----------



## greenandchic (May 27, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> You are such a butt. But I do agree with you - a lot of people think that type 3 hair has to be silky and fine, but my texture is clearly more spongy/coarse, which is why I find it so confusing!! I never wanted to put myself in type 3 because I didn't want the texture believers giving me a side eye (Like, "I know dang well she didn't call that kinky stuff type 3 hair..."), *but it seems like I get type 4 side eyes too! *I'm leaving!!!!



I got the side eye from all angles over calling myself a type 4.  "Stop frontin', you know you got that good hur in there.  You ain't got to lie to kick it!"erplexed


----------



## ms-gg (May 27, 2011)

Stupid laptop double replied erplexed

*but in the interim goes to look for security to escort Elle off of the Type Fo Property*


----------



## wavezncurlz (May 27, 2011)

type 3 folks wore afros all the time back in the day.





I'm the one with the big afro puff in the back. My texture is the same. Mom just didn't use products to define the puff. We picked those curls out back then.

My mom and me in the 70's. Mom has baby fine hair.





Mom now wears hair in buns and ponytails


----------



## ms-gg (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Kurlee Maybe I'm just uber familiar with fine hair than coarse...plus your hair is long. I also think if we let our hair drip dry, the weight of the water will make it hang and if it's coarse then it will even hang more. But towel drying and then leaving it to dry fully w/o touching it and then applying S Curl and combing out methinks would many any type 4 into a microphone afro. I bet my bottom dollar I could make your hair into an afro, a microphone afro at that.




No ma'am .  This hair on my head ain't never hung in its unmanipulated state and my hair is coarse as heck.  Maybe I'll have to re holler at you when and if I ever get to BSL or beyond but these coils and kinks of mine are reaching for Heaven only. 


Mwedzi is someone else whose unmanipulated hair does not hang.  I just think that those with really tight hair textures will always have hair that will reach for Heaven only.


----------



## Embyra (May 27, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> Are we gonna have to call security?



just  i want to stay online and your making my manager side eye me


----------



## EllePixie (May 27, 2011)

Forget about hair typing, look at all this gawjus hair!!!


----------



## Embyra (May 27, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> Some type 3's can get afros.  I don't think microphone afros are a characteristic that should decide if you are a 3 or 4.  It is curl size or how loose the texture is.



on the 3c/4a thread texture was always the underlying presence 3 is fine/silky cant do this and that rachel true was mentioned alot again silky and fine 

where the coarse/highly textured girls at i have seen Joy Denalane with a microphone afro and she sure is no 4


ahh well i say we hash it out more so the pics keep flowing


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> No ma'am .  This hair on my head ain't never hung in its unmanipulated state and my hair is coarse as heck.  Maybe I'll have to re holler at you when and if I ever get to BSL or beyond but these coils and kinks of mine are reaching for Heaven only.



ms-gg, mine doesn't hang either unless its in twists and left to drip dry. I was not stating that as a rule for all 4 types. I was stating it in response to the statement that one's hair hangs. 

For those people whose hair is weighed down by water, if they let it drip dry, it will hang. If they towel-dry, it may not have as much hang. That's all I'm saying. I see that with my twists. If I let them drip dry, they will hang and even swing a bit once dry. If I towel dry, they strike a pose (usually an upright-ish one) and maintain it until I do something to manipulate them.


----------



## ms-gg (May 27, 2011)

@ strike a pose.  You funny.


----------



## Embyra (May 27, 2011)

wavezncurlz said:


> type 3 folks wore afros all the time back in the day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





awwwww i love seeing lil girls dressed like this with the tights and cute dresses so freaking ADORABLE!


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

So interesting how we could wear afros back in the day. ALL of us, it seems...and now some of us can't. Or is it because of global warming and the hole in the Ozone layer? 

Or maybe we just put so much glop on our hair that it just gets dragged down and cannot stand up in its glory. I dunno, but @wavezncurlz, those pics have given me a whole new perspective! In my defense, I have never really been around type 3 hair--except that one time when I was trying to style my friend's hair as a kid and it was flopping all over the place not holding a style. She did have long fine hair though... So my theory on the hair is based from observation and claims of those with that type of hair. That it can make an afro makes me question those who say their hair can't make an afro. Now see, I'ma be giving folks the side eye. 

Oh wait, maybe as we grow older, thinning makes it not have support so it flops. :scratchch (I'm trying to give folks the benefit of the doubt here). Nah, it has to be product and _maybe_ thickness. @wavezncurlz, I'd like to know what your regimen was back then (Can you ask your mom?) Perhaps that's something that could be pinned up for those who cannot do afros to save their lives. oke:


----------



## greenandchic (May 27, 2011)

I recently tried to do the fro and the crown of my hair sort of stood up and the rest flopped down - the sides and the back. All I had was a light leave-in.  Too long?


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

greenandchic said:


> I recently tried to do the fro and the crown of my hair sort of stood up and the rest flopped down - the sides and the back. All I had was a light leave-in.  Too long?



@greenandchic I dunno the answer to that. We'll have to wait till @wavezncurlz gives us the regimen that made her 3B/3C hair stand up in afro before we can begin to figure out what made your not stand up. I think her hair was pretty long in those images from back in the day...but it formed a perfect microphone afro/puff. Perhaps technique, product and tools play apart. So the jury is still out on why yours wouldn't stand up. Maybe it takes some skill. I mean everyone back in the day wore afros w/o issues...so we must missing something. And  it's hard to say what exactly your issue was since I wasn't there. I've seen 4B folks struggle to create microphone afros and I have never understood why. I'd have to be there to see what the problem is.


----------



## greenandchic (May 27, 2011)

Nonie I wonder if its the cut. My hair is longer in the back...

I guess we'll have to see.  I'm not itching to try it again anytime soon though - my hair was pretty dry/crispy after that failed attempt.


----------



## Embyra (May 27, 2011)

hhmmm today is wash day i want to attempt this my puffs as a child looked like wavesandcurls but thats because my hair was always brushed out with only old school grease used and a sulphate shampoo which increased the frizz/poof


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

greenandchic said:


> @Nonie I wonder if its the cut. My hair is longer in the back...
> 
> I guess we'll have to see.  I'm not itching to try it again anytime soon though - my hair was pretty dry/crispy after that failed attempt.



@greenandchic, could be the cut. Also I recommend using S Curl the next time you try--unless we learn what the magic potion is from @wavezncurlz before then. S Curl will give you a puff/afro without making your hair dry/crisp. You would have to apply it to fully dried hair though. I'd say make sure it's fully detangled during the wash, and put it in braids and let it fully airdry in them so it remains detangled. Then undo a braid and apply S Curl to small sections to full coat and soften, and comb. You'll have a soft fluffy 'fro that won't get crisp all day. Best tool for this: a pick, preferably the one with the Power to the People fist handle:





 OK, I kid about the sort of pick to use. But I and this thing have had the longest relationship I've ever had with anyone not a blood relative.


----------



## greenandchic (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @greenandchic, could be the cut. Also I recommend using S Curl the next time you try--unless we learn what the magic potion is from @wavezncurlz before then. S Curl will give you a puff/afro without making your hair dry/crisp. You would have to apply it to fully dried hair though. *I'd say make sure it's fully detangled during the wash, and put it in braids and let it fully airdry in them so it remains detangled. Then undo a braid and apply S Curl to small sections to full coat and soften, and comb. You'll have a soft fluffy 'fro that won't get crisp all day.* Best tool for this: a pick, preferably the one with the Power to the People fist handle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool, thanks!!


----------



## wavezncurlz (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> So interesting how we could wear afros back in the day. ALL of us, it seems...and now some of us can't. Or is it because of global warming and the hole in the Ozone layer?
> 
> Or maybe *we just put so much glop on our hair* that it just gets dragged down and cannot stand up in its glory. I dunno, but @wavezncurlz, those pics have given me a whole new perspective! In my defense, I have never really been around type 3 hair--except that one time when I was trying to style my friend's hair as a kid and it was flopping all over the place not holding a style. She did have long fine hair though... So my theory on the hair is based from observation and claims of those with that type of hair. That it can make an afro makes me question those who say their hair can't make an afro. Now see, I'ma be giving folks the side eye.
> 
> Oh wait, maybe as we grow older, thinning makes it not have support so it flops. :scratchch (I'm trying to give folks the benefit of the doubt here). Nah, it has to be product and _maybe_ thickness. @wavezncurlz, I'd like to know what your regimen was back then (Can you ask your mom?) Perhaps that's something that could be pinned up for those who cannot do afros to save their lives. oke:


 
Regimen!?!? What's that? Things were so simple back then. We didn't care about curls we wanted bush! Even the white folks - remember curly Barbara Streisand? 
We didn't use no goop! My mom used this:





on my edges to smooth. It had a ton of lanolin but my hair was soft and dry. Then she picked out the curls with this:





My granny called it "training" the hair. I didn't wear braids or twists so my hair was constantly out and wild. She didn't detangle either. We just picked it out. That was the style. 

Later when I was around 10, I got the puff cut and wore a short afro until around middle school when fro's were played out (and curls were in). I remember when I found curl activator and found curls.


----------



## Poohbear (May 27, 2011)

Nonie - I'm really not being rude here, but you just showed pictures of your hair with type 4A. The picture in particular is the one where you have "Dry 4B hair" written in white letters on the picture. You definitely have a mixture. Isn't Type 4A hair tight little spring coils that clump together while Type 4B hair is tight little spring coils that are undefined and do not clump? I see both types in your hair.

I also cannot get a perfect wash n go either because of my Type 4B strands which are undefined and do not clump.  I also have some parts that shrink more than others.

As far as the zigzag for Type 4B in that picture posted by serendipity, I believe it is indicating hair that grows out of the scalp with bends and undefined coils... not necessarily a perfect zigzag pattern. Hope that makes sense.

And about HairCrush - are you saying she has 3C/4A strands that do not shrink and coil up? How can you tell her hair strands are tighter than what it appears? I just don't see any springs or coils or curls in her hair. And her hair was not previously stretched out nor blowdried.  Or is there something you all have seen with her hair that I have not seen? I've looked through her album and videos. Can you show me a picture of her unmanipulated hair being Type 3C/4A???




Nonie said:


> @Poohbear My hair is NOT 4A/B. My hair is 100% 4B just like @Foxglove's hair. I don't have any A in it. I just have a good camera that takes great closeups otherwise my curls are too tiny to be 4A anything. Also I can't get a WNG at all the way 4A's and maybe 4A/B's can. (I've always said I don't know what 4A/B is but I do know my hair is 4B. I've no doubt about that.)
> 
> I explained how I came to the conclusion that HairCrush's hair is 3C/4A. Her hair behaves the way I see 3C/4A hair behave. I don't know how to else to explain this except exactly as I did in the post I stated this. And if you look at the characteristics of other 3C/4A-ers (not the ones jumping on the new fashion trend but the ones who are without a doubt 3C/4A--also mentioned in my post), you will see how similar their hair is. The one difference you may notice is HairCrush's hair hangs more, and I also explained why I believe that is.
> 
> My post about my hair that you quoted when you asked the above question had nothing to do with HairCrush's hair or my coming to the conclusion she's 3C/4A. LOL That post you quoted was responding to the statement that 4B hair is zigzag and that 4C is made of tiny coils. I disagreed and was using my images to show what I mean.


----------



## WantNatural (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> WantNatural, your hair in your siggy looks the way her hair did in some pics someone posted.



 LOL! My hair looks NOTHING like hers! Haha! I have a very tight 4a curl pattern that you can't miss! My hair would never dry like hers unmanipulated. She does have lovely hair though!


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> @Nonie - I'm really not being rude here, but you just showed pictures of your hair with type 4A. The picture in particular is the one where you have "Dry 4B hair" written in white letters on the picture. You definitely have a mixture. Isn't Type 4A hair tight little spring coils that clump together while Type 4B hair is tight little spring coils that are undefined and do not clump? I see both types in your hair.



@Poohbear I don't think you're being rude at all. my hair doesn't clump the way 4B hair does. I do not get tubes of hair that stands out defined. What you're looking at is a few strands taken by themselves and it isn't out of the ordinary for things that have the same pattern to fall into each other, so even my small coils will clump but not to the extend of 4A hair because they are too small to cup each other easily. You would have to have about 20 strands all lined up perfectly then stretched out and then pressed together for them to cup each other uniformly the way 4A and 3's hair clumps.

The same few strands you saw look like this en masse:






You only see that "clumping" when you look at a few strands and if I don't finger comb them.



Poohbear said:


> I also cannot get a perfect wash n go either because of my Type 4B strands which are undefined and do not clump.  I also have some parts that shrink more than others.



You see, you do understand that 4B doesn't WNG, but it isn't because they are undefined, it's because the coils are so small they cannot cup each other (or spoon each other) as easily as wider coils. You can try this with coils and springs, you'll find that if you put large springs/coils beside eacher other, they'll interlock and "clump". Try doing the same with pen springs, even stretch them out, you'll find it doesn't happen automatically but you actually have to put some effort to make it happen.

This is what my WNG looks like:





This what a 4A WNG looks like:





Notice how clearly the coils in 4A stand out...while mine don't. @AfroKink once posted a close-up of her 4B hair unmanipulated...a WNG IIRC (Found it) and you can see a close up of what that photo of my hair looks like. From where I stand it looks like a H.A.M.--as if I don't own a comb. I did not care for that style at all...but I did it because a friend with 4A hair was trying to help me learn different ways to wear my now "long" hair. I'd been in braids by the time it got to that length and was now learning ways to wear it out and also what products work--since I had used nothing on my hair for two years. 


Poohbear said:


> As far as the zigzag for Type 4B in that picture posted by serendipity, I believe it is indicating hair that grows out of the scalp with bends and undefined coils... not necessarily a perfect zigzag pattern. Hope that makes sense.



But that's also inaccurate, Poohbear. No one's hair grows out of their head like that. Even the people with different hair patterns on their heads have strands that have the same pattern from base to tips. They may have different follicles which are responsible for the different patterns, but every follicles has a specific design and it spits out a defined pattern. No randomness. I will believe this randomness y'all talk about, the day someone shows it to me growing out of someone's head...particularly someone who might not have had any chemical processing in years. (I add that point because, while I don't really know if it's true, there's been the hypothesis that the reason people have scab hair is because the chemicals had some weird effect on their scalp or sth. It seems hair does finally become "normal" so, yes, I'd like to see "normal" hair growing all randomly. Until I do, I will continue to say no one's hair is naturally made of tiny zigzags or worse, random patterns. So far, what I've seen is people who said their hair had no pattern either come to admit they do have a pattern or a photo shows up that clearly shows defined patterns that they didn't have a hand in perfecting...coz that had all been done my the Master Maker. 



Poohbear said:


> And about HairCrush - are you saying she has 3C/4A strands that do not shrink and coil up? How can you tell her hair strands are tighter than what it appears? I just don't see any springs or coils or curls in her hair. And her hair was not previously stretched out nor blowdried.  Or is there something you all have seen with her hair that I have not seen? I've looked through her album and videos. Can you show me a picture of her unmanipulated hair being Type 3C/4A???



There were photos of hers posted from when her hair was shorter. Those and the other images all led me to the conclusion that FlowerHair and a few others came to: that she's 3C/4A.


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

WantNatural said:


> LOL! My hair looks NOTHING like hers! Haha! I have a very tight 4a curl pattern that you can't miss! My hair would never dry like hers unmanipulated. She does have lovely hair though!



WantNatural I was saying that the way your hair looks in your siggy is the way her hair looked in the photos posted of when it was shorter worn in a similar do. I didn't say your hair behaves like hers in every way. And if you're 4A, then there's a characteristic you share. Your buns look similar. Also I did state in another post that texture makes a difference. Coarse hair will have more hang the longer it grows and if it absorbs water and is weighed down by it, then it'll airdry in a stretched state.


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

wavezncurlz said:


> Regimen!?!? What's that? Things were so simple back then. We didn't care about curls we wanted bush! Even the white folks - remember curly Barbara Streisand?
> We didn't use no goop! My mom used this:
> 
> 
> ...



Aha! So there y'all have it those of you whose hair was incapable of creating a puff. Leave out the glop and keep things simple. 

BTW wavezncurlz, there was a time folks were expressing frustration at not being able to create a perfect afro. IIRC, they were mostly type 4 folks, and I remember someone getting a bit bugged and asking what was so hard about it. I tried to suggest a change in the comb being used...and even I was at a loss on why they were having such difficulty. I remember being asked how my mom could get her afro so round. All she did was comb it and the strands just curled back into themselves and a microphone afro resulted. It's so straightforward to me in my head when it comes to 4B hair, that I honestly wished I could have a go at their heads.

Anyway, I think you nail it when you say "things were simple" when afros were the norm. We fail when we try to complicate matters--and that seems to apply to a lot of things in life, actually.


----------



## candycotton (May 27, 2011)

It may be possible that since she was a long term transitioner, she was able to always keep her hair in a stretched state..I'm a long term transitioner also so I wear my hair stretched 100% of the time, in buns or braids (sew ins) so although I think most of my hair is 4a, the front of my hair looks similar to hers, no defined curled, just a kinky wave that doesn't lie flat to my head and it may be because I never let it hang freely like someone who did a BC could wear wngs or twas..this may be the case with her too..


----------



## serendipity (May 27, 2011)

mwedzi said:


> Maybe braid trained discussion came up after this post, where someone says Lhdc's hair is braid trained:
> http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?p=13464905&highlight=braid+trained#post13464905
> 
> 
> ...



Mwedzi,I define coarseness as the diameter and porosity of the hair strand. Coarse hair tends to have thick strands similar to sewing thread. The cuticles in coarse hair will be more raised resulting in a rougher surface and less shine. I define texture as both the strand shape i.e wavy,curly,kinky and the strand thickness. Both of these factors will affect the way the hair feels and texture is about feel.





EllePixie said:


> Well, I find it stupid. Other charts I have seen look totally different, which further emphasizes my point that hair typing (using this system) is bunk. How can various representations of that same system look totally different? It's extremely inconsistent. It seems that people are just pulling evidence they can find that supports their own beliefs.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with being a 2c/3b/c - I am baffled as to how people keep concluding that there is something "wrong" with being a certain hair type just because someone does not think that they are. Why would there be anything wrong with being ANY hair type? It's not that serious. I wouldn't disagree with my hair being a majority of 3c, but like I've said, I don't know my hair type and I don't care - I have been called a 3c, 3c/4a, 4a, or just a type 4. If people find it misleading for me to say that I am a type 4 (which I said for the sake of this convo since at the beginning someone noted my tight curls), please let me know and I'll kindly remove myself from that category.
> 
> ...



Ellepixie your hair looks like 3c to me. Your coils look bigger than a 4a in my opinion.I see how many are confused because Andre Walker's original classification has been modified so much that the interpretations are inconsistent. The chart I posted is pretty much consistent with Andre's book which I read some years ago. 




Nonie said:


> @Poohbear My hair is NOT 4A/B. My hair is 100% 4B just like @Foxglove's hair. I don't have any A in it. I just have a good camera that takes great closeups otherwise my curls are too tiny to be 4A anything. Also I can't get a WNG at all the way 4A's and maybe 4A/B's can. (I've always said I don't know what 4A/B is but I do know my hair is 4B. I've no doubt about that.)
> 
> I explained how I came to the conclusion that HairCrush's hair is 3C/4A. Her hair behaves the way I see 3C/4A hair behave. I don't know how to else to explain this except exactly as I did in the post I stated this. And if you look at the characteristics of other 3C/4A-ers (not the ones jumping on the new fashion trend but the ones who are without a doubt 3C/4A--also mentioned in my post), you will see how similar their hair is. The one difference you may notice is HairCrush's hair hangs more, and I also explained why I believe that is.
> 
> My post about my hair that you quoted when you asked the above question had nothing to do with HairCrush's hair or my coming to the conclusion she's 3C/4A. LOL That post you quoted was responding to the statement that 4B hair is zigzag and that 4C is made of tiny coils. I disagreed and was using my images to show what I mean.



Nonie, I have to disagree with you here. I have seen true 4b's with hair that just doesn't grow in any coil pattern at all,it looks kinky-wavy. I'll have to find some pics. A cousin of mine has this hair type and if you cut his hair to an inch,you won't see any coil even with a microscope,it just looks like very kinky waves,when it gets longer it just looks nappy-straight.
In my opinion you are a 4a maybe with a little 4b in there. The difference between 4a and 4b is not coil size at all-it's the strand pattern. 4b strands are waves that are so tight that they look like zig zags.I can't stretch out my 4a hair to imitate that look. Nonie,it seems you're classifying your hair as a 4b because your coils are very small. Within this hair classification system, there is a range of curl sizes for each type. You can have a 3b with say a 1 inch diameter and another with a 0.75 inch diameter,they'd still be in the same category. Your coils may be smaller than say a pencil head,but the fact that you have that coil pattern qualifies you for the 4a category imo.





Nonie said:


> @Poohbear I'm with EllePixie on this. Have you ever seen anyone's hair grow out of their head looking zigzag? *Do have pics, coz unless someone has some weird mutation going on in their head, I believe hair follicles produce three pattern: straight, wavy and curly. A follicle would have to be undergoing some spasmodic changes to be spitting out straight, oops, sharp corner bending to left, straight, oops, sharp corner bending to right...to create a hair strand that has a zigzag pattern. And why would this not start at child birth? I am yet to see babies whose hair has never been braided look zigzaggy...especially when really short. And even after you shave it off, it comes in in cute coils. So that chart makes so sense whatsoever. *
> 
> That's like saying that Muslim women have brown patterns on their hands and creating a chart for that. And if one didn't know better, that chart would be telling us they are born like that, it is part and parcel of who they are. But it isn't. Their hands are like that because they decorate them with henna. I work with Muslim women who don't have henna on their hands so that chart would exclude them. In short, zigzag hair happens because we did something to our natural pattern. It isn't a characteristic of any hair type, but is a result of manipulation.



Nonie, I have to disagree with you here. Let's face it babies are rarely born with their true hair texture much to the dismay of many a black mother who has waited in angst hoping for that hair to stay 'good'. The hair rarely grows out in true form. Hair follicles can come straight, wavy or curly but again you are not accounting for  the range that exists within these categories. 
Wavy follicles can produce loose(type 2) or tight (type 4b) waves. Curly follicles can produce anything from type 3a to 4a.




Embyra said:


> I cannot get a microphone afro from brushing combing or blowdrying....blowdrying would have my hair straight
> you can get a afro because your texture allows this as i said before people dont believe 3  CAN have any kind of texture to it similar to a 4
> 
> if your hair is not curly/silky/fine without product then your 4 now i really dont think im crazy when i say your curls look GIGANTIC when compared to say poohbear so kindly remove yourself from the 4 group sorry i couldnt help it



Agreed.The ability to achieve a microphone afro is not a criteria I use to determine hair type. I'm a 70's movie fan and I've seen a fair few 3b/c's create banging afros. If the hair is dense enough, type 3's can get that afro look.


----------



## greenandchic (May 27, 2011)

serendipity said:


> The ability to achieve a microphone afro is not a criteria I use to determine hair type. I'm 70's movie fan and I've seen a fair few 3b/c's create banging afros. If the hair is dense and coarse enough, type 3's can get that afro look.



Could it be that some of the 3b's used hairspray to get that look - especially on a movie set?


----------



## serendipity (May 27, 2011)

greenandchic said:


> Could it be that some of the 3b's used hairspray to get that look - especially on a movie set?



Possibly. But either way the look is achievable right? No amount of hair spray can make a type 1 or 2  produce an afro halo. I know 3b/c's in real life who can get the look with little effort.


----------



## Amoreofcurls (May 27, 2011)

Ya'll are doing the most....


----------



## Junebug D (May 27, 2011)

serendipity said:


> Nonie, I have to disagree with you here. *I have seen true 4b's with hair that just doesn't grow in any coil pattern at all,it looks kinky-wavy.* I'll have to find some pics. A cousin of mine has this hair type and if you cut his hair to an inch,you won't see any coil even with a microscope,it just looks like very kinky waves,when it gets longer it just looks nappy-straight..


 serendipity, did you see anything like it in the 4b Picture thread?


----------



## ladybettle (May 27, 2011)

I don't know what her hair type is, but it is beaauutifulll!!!


----------



## serendipity (May 27, 2011)

Junebug D said:


> serendipity, did you see anything like it in the 4b Picture thread?



Afrokink on page 2 is a good example in that thread.


----------



## EllePixie (May 27, 2011)

serendipity Yea I guess I got kicked out of the 4-Club. *Watches cookie crumble*


----------



## serendipity (May 27, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> serendipity Yea I guess I got kicked out of the 4-Club. *Watches cookie crumble*



aw shuks.Hope the 3's take you back since you've betrayed them for so long


----------



## SheenaVee (May 27, 2011)

I agree with @Nonie on the 4b thing. 4b is just teeny tiny curls. Are you telling me @Mwezdi's a 4a too now?
I really hope she doesn't mind but I saw this pic in the 4b thread and copied the image link. It's a close up of her hair texture with conditioner in it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/mwedzi/Defining/closeup_2.jpg


----------



## candycotton (May 27, 2011)

Sheena284 said:


> I agree with @Nonie on the 4b thing. 4b is just teeny tiny curls. Are you telling me @Mwezdi's a 4a too now?
> I really hope she doesn't mind but I saw this pic in the 4b thread and copied the image link. It's a close up of her hair texture with conditioner in it.
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/mwedzi/Defining/closeup_2.jpg



That looks 4A to me or maybe I just dont know the difference between 4A and 4B


----------



## Junebug D (May 27, 2011)

serendipity said:


> Afrokink on page 2 is a good example in that thread.




I've seen hair like that before, only kinkier. There's one head in particular I remember from my days on NP, her hair was so fascinating to me.  (I wish I could remember her screen name, but I don't).  It looked spongy to the touch.  I saw someone else on the bus one day with hair like this; her hair was in some old braids, so I just caught the new growth around the back and sides of her head.  It immediately caught my attention because it's so rare to see. I do wonder if this is a different hair type altogether or if it is just a factor like porosity that gives it that spongy look.


----------



## DDTexlaxed (May 27, 2011)

Not this again! I choose none of the above. I vote type BEAUTIFUL.   All textures are beautiful to me. can we seriously stop posting the same thread with a different title?


----------



## SheenaVee (May 27, 2011)

candycotton said:


> That looks 4A to me or maybe I just dont know the difference between 4A and 4B



@candycotton

The thing is, people think 4b doesn't have coils/curls so whenever they see curls they think, oh, that can't be 4b. 
4b is teeny tiny curls. Like Nonie said, from afar you can't see em coz they're so small, that's probably why people think they aren't curls. 
The pic I posted of mwezdi's hair is a really close up pic. (check out her fingers in the pic, next to her hair to get an idea of how small the curls are) From afar, you probably wouldn't have seen that those curls were there. 
With 4a hair, you can see the curls from quite a distance coz they're larger.


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

serendipity, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Unless you can show me someone's whose hair grows in random shapes, I will continue to insist manipulation is what causes that randomness. 

Funny you use AfroKink as an example of the random pattern, and yet she's my example of what 4B is: a bunch of tiny coils all uniform throughout her head. Even she will tell you her hair is made of coils. I linked to a post where she said exactly that. 

So forget babies. Show me a man or woman whose hair comes out of their scalp without a uniform pattern and I will agree that you're onto something. And if you wanna say talk about hair coming in small waves, wouldn't that be type 2C...after all, don't the letters from A to C show a diminishing in size? And why not call it waves? What's the zigzag definition? That to me has corners not bends. Clearly the patterns 1, 2, 3, 4 have always represented, straight, wavy, curly, kinky respectively. And kinky means tight coils. Not waves, but coils or curls that are very tiny and tight. So unless y'all are inventing some new chart, then there's no such thing as zigzag pattern that grows out of someone's head. I've been on this forum since 2003 and I'm yet to see it, not to mention I'm fascinated by hair and knowledge in general and in all my research I've never seen anything to support that rumor. 

Pics speak a thousand words...so show me evidence of hair growing from a bald head that isn't coming in as straight, wavy and curly (<--meaning having curves that are uniform) and I will change my tune. I mean, I stand corrected on type 3C not being able to make afros. In fact, I even learned that 3B/3C can make an afro! So trust me, I'm open to learning something new as long as it's clearly explained/shown to me.


----------



## Kurlee (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @Kurlee Maybe I'm just uber familiar with fine hair than coarse...plus your hair is long. I also think if we let our hair drip dry, the weight of the water will make it hang and if it's coarse then it will even hang more. But towel drying and then leaving it to dry fully w/o touching it and then applying S Curl and combing out methinks would many any type 4 into a microphone afro. I bet my bottom dollar I could make your hair into an afro, a microphone afro at that.
> 
> ETA...now if your hair were much longer...butt and beyond, the microphone might look a bit drunk.


my hurr stopped doing that once it was 8 inches. I have a small section in my crown (width of a finger) that was burned with the flat iron by a stylist  and right now it reaches my nape from the middle of my head when stretched.  It is half that length when shrunken, but even at that short length, it hangs down.. Towel dry?! Blasphemy. Towels don't touch my head and leaving my hair to dry with nothing  can we say breakage, tangles and hair curling around itself in random ways?! My hair would DIE a quick death and be SL in a few months if I did those things to it.


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

serendipity said:


> In my opinion you are a 4a maybe with a little 4b in there. The difference between 4a and 4b is not coil size at all-it's the strand pattern. 4b strands are waves that are so tight that they look like zig zags.I can't stretch out my 4a hair to imitate that look. Nonie,it seems you're classifying your hair as a 4b because your coils are very small. Within this hair classification system, there is a range of curl sizes for each type. You can have a 3b with say a 1 inch diameter and another with a 0.75 inch diameter,they'd still be in the same category. Your coils may be smaller than say a pencil head,but the fact that you have that coil pattern qualifies you for the 4a category imo.



So are you telling all of us in the "Insert 4B Hair Pics" who have 4B hair that is made of coils are wrong about our own hair? BTW, I don't have a mixture of strands. All my strands are the same size so there's no 4A mixed with 4B. It's all 4B.

And so what in your opinion differentiates 4A from 3C...if curl pattern can vary so within a letter? To me it's not that complicated, and I think a few people are on the same page as me. 3A are the biggest coils, 4B the tiniest coils. 

3A curls are huge and flop:











3B has smaller curls than 3A but bigger than 3C and looks like this:











3C hair looks like this (notice the much smaller curl pattern):










4A looks like this:










And 4B looks like this:











*_Nonie loses her cool and shrieks with pure glee then just plain gets out of order_* 
 Love (nay, LURVE) me some Bernie Mac afro  The day I rock this do, I'ma be getting it on a few T-shirts. That's pure HOTNESS!!! :notworthy

(Yeah, yeah, I know I made some "current trend followers" who prefer the chunky 'fro gag, but that to me is hotter-than-hell FIYAH!!!!)


----------



## hair4romheaven (May 27, 2011)

Oh dear...


----------



## empressri (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> Aha! So there y'all have it those of you whose hair was incapable of creating a puff. Leave out the glop and keep things simple.
> 
> BTW wavezncurlz, there was a time folks were expressing frustration at not being able to create a perfect afro. IIRC, they were mostly type 4 folks, and I remember someone getting a bit bugged and asking what was so hard about it. I tried to suggest a change in the comb being used...and even I was at a loss on why they were having such difficulty. I remember being asked how my mom could get her afro so round. All she did was comb it and the strands just curled back into themselves and a microphone afro resulted. It's so straightforward to me in my head when it comes to 4B hair, that I honestly wished I could have a go at their heads.
> 
> Anyway, I think you nail it when you say "things were simple" when afros were the norm. We fail when we try to complicate matters--and that seems to apply to a lot of things in life, actually.



Nonie SO had that perfect afro when he was younger lol. i asked him what did he do, and he told me the barber would pick it out and trim (using clippers? scissors?) into a round shape also. he's old school and say that was an afro, not what let's say maxwell's hair used to be like lol.


----------



## Nonie (May 27, 2011)

empressri, your SO and I are so >>here<<. Maybe we were separated at birth. Ask him what his African name is...and which village he hails from. (I kid  ) But yep, he speaks my language...so we must be related.


----------



## danniegirl (May 27, 2011)

Nonie said:


> So are you telling all of us in the "Insert 4B Hair Pics" who have 4B hair that is made of coils are wrong about our own hair? BTW, I don't have a mixture of strands. All my strands are the same size so there's no 4A mixed with 4B. It's all 4B.
> 
> And so what in your opinion differentiates 4A from 3C...if curl pattern can vary so within a letter? To me it's not that complicated, and I think a few people are on the same page as me. 3A are the biggest coils, 4B the tiniest coils.
> 
> ...



ok so now we are typing styled hair with lord knows what type of product in it  i wish i could find the flat lined smiley


----------



## candycotton (May 28, 2011)

Nonie the 4B pics of Bernie Mac and the praying men are both very tightly coiled, but what about hair with no definite curl pattern, but a loose, kinky wave? Does 4B hair have to be tightly coiled?


----------



## Nonie (May 28, 2011)

danniegirl said:


> ok so now we are typing styled hair with lord knows what type of product in it  i wish i could find the flat lined smiley



Actually danniegirl, I didn't say that's what their natural hair looks like. I don't know for sure, but I was trying to show what I believe that type of hair looks like. IF you know examples of people with hair that looks like that naturally, then feel free to post them in lieu of mine. Those pics were to show examples of what that hair type might look like.

I don't know who you're referring to...but in case you haven't been following, naked bare hair doesn't tell the full story. Rather seeing hair worn different ways even with and without product can give a better picture of what the hair is. And since type has to do with curl size, what has product got to do with the price of eggs? If you like, you can look for more photos of the people I used and see their hair in other states.  Drew Barrymore's hair has had large curls from when she was a kid in FireStarter so it's safe to assume her naturel hair has large curls. Bette Midler's hair has also looked the same for as long as I've known of her so I assumed that's her natural hair. Nicole Kidman's curly hair is what other members on the forum said was her natural hair--not the loose wavy/curly hair she's been seen with in later years. Jada Pinkett's hair is brushed out but it's another image of what 3C hair can look like but feel free to look for more of her hair and you'll see that it looks like Rachel True's hair. 

As we've said over and over again, type is not determined by just naked unmanipulated hair...but by a bunch of images of the hair in its various forms. The two images of 4A for example show a WNG and a combed brushed out 4A do. The size of the coils is what makes it 4A not the style it's worn in. I tried to show different images to give an idea of perhaps how those styles could look manipulated because that's how you're bound to see them in public anyway. I even threw in an uncombed 4B hair so you'd see the little circles it seperates into. And BTW, some people with those hair types have confirmed I ain't mad about how their hair can look so you can think whatever you want to think. 

Good effin grief, y'all make something so simple and straightforward so complicated with your nitpicking. I forget who it is who said that there's no need for all these explanations because you can tell the type of hair just by looking at it. Too right. I only go through all this coz I actually believe there are people interested in seeing my point of view, not so that I can keep going back and forth over the same BS.  Y'all continue believing what you want to believe about your hair, about my hair, about Haircrush's hair, in fact, about everyone's hair; after all, aren't we all 3C/4A this year? So yeah, I'm up the chart too this year. Maybe that's why I said Haircrush is that too. Gotta stick to the script.  

As for those who've PMed me to thank me for my sharing and for whatever info they've gleaned from my ramblings in this thread and others like it, you're welcome again. 

Haircrush your hair rocks. Call it whatever you will and whip it all you want. After all, it doesn't matter what any of you think about yourselves, there's still someone out there who thinks you're full of sh**, so what the *** does it matter?

If anyone mentions me in a typing thread, please do not expect a response from me. I think I've shared all I know ad nauseum so refer to my posts and hopefully you'll get whatever you'll be mentioning me for there. wavezncurlz, EllePixie, thank you so much for the new info you've given me about type 3 hair and afros. I was beside myself with excitement to see the evidence of afros in their full glory in hair I never expected to do that. serendipity, if you do ever post photos of zigzag hair growing out of the scalp (You really don't have to but should you), know I'll take note. To everyone else who might address me in a typing thread and get ignored, I apologize in advance. I totally get why folks use this smiley now.


----------



## Nonie (May 28, 2011)

candycotton said:


> Nonie the 4B pics of Bernie Mac and the praying men are both very tightly coiled, but what about hair with no definite curl pattern, but a loose, kinky wave? Does 4B hair have to be tightly coiled?



candycotton, I just noticed your question and since it was posted earlier, I will respond. 

4B hair grows naturally with a definite pattern of tight coils. Due to manipulation as it grows longer, it usually exists without a definite pattern. But that's not a permanent state. If one's using products like Shea Butter which IMO work like grease, they can seem to "freeze" that state so the hair always looks like this:





That's how my hair looks most of the time because I cannot afford to let it curl back into coils if I plan on enjoying my hair. Tangles would become unbearable...and you'll find that is true of everyone who understands 4B hair. It must be kept stretched if it is to be bearable. And because of that, it looks like this (shrunken and stretched):





And like this:





Sorry I haven't got the energy to go over all this again, but if you look at all discussions on 4C, CNapp, 4B hair, you may see more of my rambles on this.


----------



## BrownSkin2 (May 28, 2011)

Mwezdi's hair doesn't look like defined coils to me.  She has zig zags along her strands...




Sheena284 said:


> I agree with @Nonie on the 4b thing. 4b is just teeny tiny curls. Are you telling me @Mwezdi's a 4a too now?
> I really hope she doesn't mind but I saw this pic in the 4b thread and copied the image link. It's a close up of her hair texture with conditioner in it.
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/mwedzi/Defining/closeup_2.jpg


----------



## SheenaVee (May 28, 2011)

BrownSkin2 said:


> Mwezdi's hair doesn't look like defined coils to me.  She has zig zags along her strands...



BrownSkin2

Really? They clearly look like coils to me... 

You can only see one side of them so they look like zig zags but they are coiling around. You know, like a spring? Lay it flat on the ground and look at it from on top and it looks like zig zags, but it coils around. If she had held up one of those coils in the pic you would see it but she didn't.

Oh gawd, I don't have the energy to continue discussing this, especially when Nonie just basically explained ALL of it. Lol. We're just going round and round in circles. Refer to her posts she explains it better.


----------



## Shay72 (May 28, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> I really do think that some people believe that one hair type is better than another - I have seen people say things along the lines of, "Well I don't _need_ [insert curl definer here] to have curls..." almost implying that if you use gel/curl cremes your hair is still not good enough.


 
This is funny to me. I'm a pretty concrete person. I read this as the individual is stating a fact rather than implying their hair is better .

I think her hair is 4B.


----------



## Poohbear (May 31, 2011)

Very cute wavezncurlz. Your hair doesn't look as silky in your younger pics as it does now in pics.  Is it because of product or change in texture as you got older?


wavezncurlz said:


> type 3 folks wore afros all the time back in the day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (May 31, 2011)

wavezncurlz said:


> type 3 folks wore afros all the time back in the day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 These are too cute!  That puff is bigger than yo' whole head!!!  Yes, I too was a child of the 70's, there was no curl definition going on back then!  DH and I honeymooned in Fiji, and a lot of the women there are mixed with some form of APA or other race, (Indian, maybe?  Although I hear they don't get along).  In any event, the non-Indian Fijians rock the afro hard!  Some seem to have 4-type hair, but some have 3-ish hair and the 'fro's are still doing their thang!  I love that about the women there.


----------



## wavezncurlz (May 31, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Very cute @wavezncurlz. Your hair doesn't look as silky in your younger pics as it does now in pics. Is it because of product or change in texture as you got older?


 
It's the products we used - not moisturizing or curl defining. My hair was uber thick then too. I has thinned out. My edges were always smooth and "silky" but we picked out the curls for afros. 

I don't pick it out like we did then, my hair is thinner, and I use better products. I wouldn't do that today because I had a lot of tangles and combing my hair hurt.

This is my current version of an afro puff (I don't have one with no product sorry)












But I can do the same thing with my 5 year old who is my hair twin. Her texture looks silky with product but can be poofy too. Her puff can go from this:






to this when picked out:


----------



## EllePixie (May 31, 2011)

Shay72 said:


> This is funny to me. I'm a pretty concrete person. I read this as the individual is stating a fact rather than implying their hair is better .
> 
> I think her hair is 4B.


I took that one sentence out of context, it would have made more sense if you saw the entire conversation. I don't usually dig for shade but I gave a side eye to that when I saw it. It wasn't on here though. Shrug.


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (May 31, 2011)

wavezncurlz said:


> It's the products we used - not moisturizing or curl defining. My hair was uber thick then too. I has thinned out. My edges were always smooth and "silky" but we picked out the curls for afros.
> 
> I don't pick it out like we did then, my hair is thinner, and I use better products. I wouldn't do that today because I had a lot of tangles and combing my hair hurt.
> 
> ...


 Wow!  Can't believe that fro-puff!  "Say it loud..!"  Too cute!


----------



## ShiShiPooPoo (Jun 1, 2011)

Sheena284 said:


> And just to add to what I was saying before.
> 
> When someone comes in here and starts complaining about how a certain curl defining product didn't work for them and didn't define, people are always quick to say things like, "It will only define what's already there," and "It doesn't CREATE curls, just enhances them." and stuff like that.
> 
> ...


 




Can I just say that I've been looking at your hair more than this other woman...it's beautiful!


----------



## PinkyPromise (Jun 1, 2011)

4a/4b . . .


----------



## PinkyPromise (Jun 2, 2011)

PinkyPromise said:


> 4a/4b . . .



Her fotki with wng's
http://public.fotki.com/lifesacatwalk/6-months-post-chop/


----------



## Poohbear (Jun 2, 2011)

PinkyPromise said:


> 4a/4b . . .





PinkyPromise said:


> Her fotki with wng's
> http://public.fotki.com/lifesacatwalk/6-months-post-chop/



If her wash-n-gos are 4a/b, then mine must be 6a/b...

Pic of my wash-n-go...no product...


----------



## Kurlee (Jun 2, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> *If her wash-n-gos are 4a/b, then mine must be 6a/b...*
> 
> Pic of my wash-n-go...no product...


that's what i'm sayin


----------



## PinkyPromise (Jun 2, 2011)

You look 4a to me. Just maybe not as "silky" as some. I can definitely see you curl pattern!


----------



## MilkChocolateOne (Jun 2, 2011)

PinkyPromise said:


> You look 4a to me. Just maybe not as "silky" as some. I can definitely see you curl pattern!




I don't think she's comparing textures (cottony vs silky), she's comparing curl sizes (pen spring vs chalk size).


----------



## ms-gg (Jun 2, 2011)

That's what I am saying too.  The last time I checked, 4a was coffee stirrer size coils.  Every year, what constitutes 4a coils has been getting bigger and bigger.  Next someone is going to tell me Cree Summer is 4a


----------



## Poohbear (Jun 2, 2011)

PinkyPromise said:


> You look 4a to me. Just maybe not as "silky" as some. I can definitely see you curl pattern!



So how am I 4a and HairCrush is 4a/b? My hair is way nappier than HairCrush's hair. Nothing wrong with that. That's just a fact. This is what I've been trying to figure out from this whole thread. I tried to shut up  but I came back in after seeing more people thinking HairCrush has Type 4 hair.


----------



## ms-gg (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm a 4a/4b mix, being more 4b than 4a and here is a pic of an old puff of mine.  You can see some of my coffee stirrer sized coils peeking through in the back:


----------



## Embyra (Jun 2, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> That's what I am saying too.  The last time I checked, 4a was coffee stirrer size coils.  Every year, what constitutes 4a coils has been getting bigger and bigger. * Next someone is going to tell me Cree Summer is 4a *



on here yes she is i was told by 2 different people via PM my hair looks like hers and she is def not a 3  according to them so yeaaaahh


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## Embyra (Jun 2, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> I'm a 4a/4b mix, being more 4b than 4a and here is a pic of an old puff of mine.  You can see some of my coffee stirrer sized coils peaking through in the back:




feel free to add some more pics to confirm your point


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## ms-gg (Jun 2, 2011)

Wowwwww, are you serious   ? I was just bullcraping. 


Thanks girl 

I do have more pics lol, but they are of Lenny Kravitz.  He is a 4a/4b mix too:











Please excuse the pank glitta shades


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## PinkyPromise (Jun 2, 2011)

Doing too much. I just stated my opinion. Yours seems like a kinkier 4a. You seem to have uniform curls throughout where hers looks more coarse/puffy that's where I got 4b from. If hers looked more uniform in curl like yours I'd consider it all 4a, but what do I know? Nothing. I'm trying to figure out my own texture myself.


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## Kurlee (Jun 2, 2011)

i just don't get why people can't just say she has a looser hair type. First, it's because she twists and that permanently changed her texture, now it's that hair type despite pics showing contrary. I'm so confused. I mean, i just don't get it.  Her hair has loose curls/s-waves in wet pics and barely shrinks, so ummm despite the fuzziness, she is definitely not a type 4 or even high 3. Geesh.


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## Poohbear (Jun 2, 2011)

PinkyPromise said:


> Doing too much. I just stated my opinion. Yours seems like a kinkier 4a. You seem to have uniform curls throughout where hers looks more coarse/puffy that's where I got 4b from. If hers looked more uniform in curl like yours I'd consider it all 4a, but what do I know? Nothing. I'm trying to figure out my own texture myself.



No problem. 



Kurlee said:


> i just don't get why people can't just say she has a looser hair type. First, it's because she twists and that permanently changed her texture, now it's that hair type despite pics showing contrary. I'm so confused. I mean, i just don't get it.  Her hair has loose curls/s-waves in wet pics and barely shrinks, so ummm despite the fuzziness, she is definitely not a type 4 or even high 3. Geesh.



Yeah, exactly! 

I know I said Hair Crush was 2C earlier, but maybe I'll give her 3A. It's just that I don't see any spirals, springs, or coils in her hair when wet or airdried unmanipulated.


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## Poohbear (Jun 2, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> That's what I am saying too.  The last time I checked, 4a was coffee stirrer size coils.  Every year, what constitutes 4a coils has been getting bigger and bigger.  Next someone is going to tell me Cree Summer is 4a





Embyra said:


> on here yes she is i was told by 2 different people via PM my hair looks like hers and she is def not a 3  according to them so yeaaaahh



Wow! Cree Summer is definitely a Type 3.  Her spiral curls are bigger than tight springs of a Type 4. Here's a pic of her hair:


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## chicha (Jun 2, 2011)

4b is tight hair. The coils are almost invisible to the naked eye unless you are right up on it. 

If this is her natural hair with no chemicals or products I'd say 3b/3c. Its just a FRIZZY 3b/3c. I see waves in her hair. 4b is pure, tight coils.



naturalTAN said:


> Her dry hair falls closer to the 4B category, but she has coarse, heavy individual strands that cause her hair to hang down and have less shrinkage. Most 4Bs have fine strands that stand up and shrink onto themselves and need heavy products to coax it to hang a little. That would explain why her hair looks so different than others because it has the coarseness associated with straighter hair but a kinky texture.
> 
> I guess it is true. Her 4B is not my 4B.


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## DaiseeDay (Jun 2, 2011)

I was gonna vote 4a before it occurred to me that her hair before she wet it looks like BoBraz before you wet it. Her wet hair looks like wet BoBraz. It's generally agreed that BoBraz is like 3a-3c. I think that if she used gel to define her curls people would easily agree that she's type 3, but it seems like she just doesn't do a lot of curl defining. I also don't really think her before hair is technically un-manipulated: she was running her hands through it dry, so that's probably why you can barely see a curl pattern. It's obvious that she has big spirals in the wet photos. You can even see a spiral in her dry hair at the 6:06 mark. I just think she finger combs her curls out: It's a serious rule of curly hair styling not to touch it while drying because it will cause frizz city. Also, type 3 hair is described as the type of hair that can get BIG when the curls aren't controlled. That's exactly what her hair does.

In this video she shows wash and go photos at the 1:44, 2:08, and 2:24 marks and it doesn't look like 4a at all IMO, it looks like voluptuous (aka big aka uncontrolled) 3b-3c: http://www.youtube.com/user/HairCrush#p/search/0/da8u_TxphJU

I beleive her hair, like BoBraz, can go from 

this:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...&rls=en&biw=1191&bih=622&tbm=isch&um=1&itbs=1

to this:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...&rls=en&biw=1191&bih=622&tbm=isch&um=1&itbs=1

to this: 
http://forum.blackhairplanet.com/me...o-not-touch-curls-until-dry-reduce-frizz.html

Depending on how you style it. 

Anyway her hair is gorgeous.


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## Embyra (Jun 2, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Wow! Cree Summer is definitely a Type 3.  Her spiral curls are bigger than tight springs of a Type 4. Here's a pic of her hair:



Poohbearthey told me this as they were both trying to get me to SEE type 4 has many different ''types'' Cree Summer apparently is one of the different ''types'' of 4


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## EllePixie (Jun 2, 2011)

Embrya That's really funny because I always thought that the tighter part of my hair looked like Cree's and that was the type 4 part...


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## DaiseeDay (Jun 2, 2011)

Cree Summer's curls look mostly pencil size - 3c.


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## greenandchic (Jun 2, 2011)

I consider myself _mostly _type 4, yet Cree's hair looks a lot like mine in that photo in the bulk of it.  Gaaaah! I give up on this hair typing business!


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## EllePixie (Jun 2, 2011)

greenandchic said:


> I consider myself _mostly _type 4, yet Cree's hair looks a lot like mine in that photo in the bulk of it.  Gaaaah! I give up on this hair typing business!



LMAO that's what I said!!! I GIVE UP!  Guh you finna get kicked outta the type 4 club like me...


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## greenandchic (Jun 2, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> LMAO that's what I said!!! I GIVE UP!  Guh you finna get kicked outta the type 4 club like me...




I know, I better cool it. LOL


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## Imani (Jun 2, 2011)

I voted 3c/4a. Her hair looks very similar to Moptopmaven who is also 3c/4a


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## Wildchild453 (Jun 2, 2011)

Die vampire, die


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## Embyra (Jun 2, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> Embrya That's really funny because I always thought that the tighter part of my hair looked like Cree's and that was the type 4 part...



EllePixiewhen i looked up Cree after i was confronted 
i read that andre put cree in his 3b group along with Cleo Laine.....i think andre prob would put all the 3c under his 3b section anyway 

looking at oprahs hair who he puts in the 4 there is a big difference in the size of their curl

if he was to read all these hair typing discussions he would prob be like what is these *****s problem whats so hard to understand


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## Embyra (Jun 2, 2011)

greenandchic said:


> I consider myself _mostly _type 4, yet Cree's hair looks a lot like mine in that photo in the bulk of it.  Gaaaah! I give up on this hair typing business!




:gotroasted:


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## EllePixie (Jun 2, 2011)

Embyra said:


> EllePixiewhen i looked up Cree after i was confronted
> i read that andre put cree in his 3b group along with Cleo Laine.....i think andre prob would put all the 3c under his 3b section anyway
> 
> looking at oprahs hair who he puts in the 4 there is a big difference in the size of their curl
> ...


I think the confusion is where some systems started putting the curl sizes in there...I'm looking at http://urbanbeautyonline.com/beauty/whats-your-hair-type-according-to-andre-talks-hair/ and it doesn't say anything about no dang pencils, crochet needles, or pen springs. But...it's still confusing with all of the characteristics he has in there, because people can have a mixture of those. Like, your hair may stretch out (straighten) when wet but it might not be easy to get straight with a blow dryer if it's coarse. Ya dig?

Why am I back in here...I'm leaving!!! Goodbye, Embyra, you know I luh you guh!


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## Embyra (Jun 2, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> I think the confusion is where some systems started putting the curl sizes in there...I'm looking at http://urbanbeautyonline.com/beauty/whats-your-hair-type-according-to-andre-talks-hair/* and it doesn't say anything about no dang pencils, crochet needles, or pen springs*. But...it's still confusing with all of the characteristics he has in there, because people can have a mixture of those. Like, your hair may stretch out (straighten) when wet but it might not be easy to get straight with a blow dryer if it's coarse. Ya dig?
> 
> Why am I back in here...I'm leaving!!! Goodbye, Embyra, you know I luh you guh!



thats true i think the stationary/sewing box references started with NC

why are any of us back in here?! the madness is spreading wait for meeeeeeeee im coming tooEllePixie


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## chicha (Jun 3, 2011)

She's no way a 4 anything. She has big springs (3c). Not tiny coils (4a, 4b)

3c


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## aquajoyice (Jun 3, 2011)

Wow, this thread is still going LOL!


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## Poohbear (Jun 3, 2011)

Wildchild453 said:


> Die vampire, die



*NOOOOO!!!!*


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## Poohbear (Jun 3, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> I think the confusion is where some systems started putting the curl sizes in there...I'm looking at http://urbanbeautyonline.com/beauty/whats-your-hair-type-according-to-andre-talks-hair/ and *it doesn't say anything about no dang pencils, crochet needles, or pen springs.* But...it's still confusing with all of the characteristics he has in there, because people can have a mixture of those. Like, your hair may stretch out (straighten) when wet but it might not be easy to get straight with a blow dryer if it's coarse. Ya dig?
> 
> Why am I back in here...I'm leaving!!! Goodbye, Embyra, you know I luh you guh!



EllePixie - About the use of pencils, pen springs, etc... those terms were just used as ways to describe the size of the curl/coil of someone's hair strands to give people a better picture in their mind and make a comparison.


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## EllePixie (Jun 3, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> EllePixie - About the use of pencils, pen springs, etc... those terms were just used as ways to describe the size of the curl/coil of someone's hair strands to give people a better picture in their mind and make a comparison.



Right, but IMO people think of different sizes when they think of these things. Someone actually argued with me once about what crochet needle size they were talking about. Pencils are different sizes (and when was the last time any of us used a pencil that wasn't mechanical?), and pen springs can be smaller or fatter depending on the pen maker. When I think of markers, I think of the FAT ones, but if I go find a marker it may not be as fat (think those smelly ones vs. a standard size crayola marker). Looking at the base definition - if you just say "corkscrew" or "tight curl," that makes much more sense because it focuses on the shape rather than the diameter. It's too much getting into the weeds for me.

Anyway...I'm seriously not discussing this anymore, so no one @ me in this thread again. I don't care about hair type (as seen in my reaction when I was kicked out of type 4 lol). Hair is hair. Changing what category my hair is in does not shift how my hair behaves, looks, or grows. Your hair is gonna do what it wants to do regardless of what you want to call it or what category you want to put it in. Thanks.


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## *C00KIE* (Jun 3, 2011)

*My two cents, for whatever they are worth.

The girl, OP posted about, I believe is mostly a 4a streched. Meaning she has her hair in a constant stretched style (small braids or twists) to the point her hair pattern just took that form (this happens to me if i wash in braids dry in them and leave it like this anywhere between 1-3months). My hair looks like this when just taken out of braids or twists, also.*


I totally agree this lady is a 3 a course 3 but nonetheless she is a 3, i would even say she is a 3c



chicha said:


> She's no way a 4 anything. She has big springs (3c). Not tiny coils (4a, 4b)
> 
> 
> 3c





EllePixie said:


> Right, but IMO people think of different sizes when they think of these things. Someone actually argued with me once about what crochet needle size they were talking about. Pencils are different sizes (and when was the last time any of us used a pencil that wasn't mechanical?), and pen springs can be smaller or fatter depending on the pen maker. When I think of markers, I think of the FAT ones, but if I go find a marker it may not be as fat (think those smelly ones vs. a standard size crayola marker). Looking at the base definition - if you just say "corkscrew" or "tight curl," that makes much more sense because it focuses on the shape rather than the diameter. It's too much getting into the weeds for me.
> 
> Anyway...I'm seriously not discussing this anymore, so no one @ me in this thread again. I don't care about hair type (as seen in my reaction when I was kicked out of type 4 lol). Hair is hair. Changing what category my hair is in does not shift how my hair behaves, looks, or grows. Your hair is gonna do what it wants to do regardless of what you want to call it or what category you want to put it in. Thanks.



*I LOVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SEE AND COMING FROM. SO I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SOMEONE COMING BACK TO READ A RESPONSE AND RESPOND TO IT RESPECTFULLY WITH THEIR POINT OF VIEW. THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.
OH, AND BY THE WAY... YOU ARE SO A 3C*


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## Cherokee-n-Black (Jun 3, 2011)

Oh good lawd...I am more confused now than I was before.  Can someone Puh-lease tell me, if one's hair is wavy/crinkly, not loose beach waves, I'm talking, like remember when dudes wore wave caps and put nu nile in their hair-type waves--what is that????  I thought that was 4b.  Now I'm hearing tight coils are 4b which I thought was 4c.  Cree's hair looks 4a to me, now that's 3b or c???  I'm officially confuzzled...


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## ms-gg (Jun 3, 2011)

There is no such thing as 4c as far as Andre's system is concerned.  Cree Summer is the poster child of type 3 hair.  Like I said before, just because someone has frizzy/kinky/fuzzy hair does not automatically mean they are type 4.  Neither does coarse hair.  People are getting this confused.

Type 4=tight nappy hair.  If you wouldn't look at someone's hair and say their hair is nappy, it probably ain't a type 4.


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## Poohbear (Jun 3, 2011)

*C00KIE* said:


> *My two cents, for whatever they are worth.
> 
> The girl, OP posted about, I believe is mostly a 4a streched. Meaning she has her hair in a constant stretched style (small braids or twists) to the point her hair pattern just took that form (this happens to me if i wash in braids dry in them and leave it like this anywhere between 1-3months). My hair looks like this when just taken out of braids or twists, also.*



*C00KIE* - But the thing that is different about HairCrush's hair is this.... what you see in her videos and most of her pictures is NOT her stretched out hair!!! Listen to what she says in some of her videos. That is her hair straight from a wash n go! It's not a twistout nor braidout!!!  Her hair doesn't shrink up into tight little coils.


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## Cherokee-n-Black (Jun 3, 2011)

ms-gg said:


> There is no such thing as 4c as far as Andre's system is concerned. Cree Summer is the poster child of type 3 hair. Like I said before, just because someone has frizzy/kinky/fuzzy hair does not automatically mean they are type 4. Neither does coarse hair. People are getting this confused.
> 
> Type 4=tight nappy hair. If you wouldn't look at someone's hair and say their hair is nappy, it probably ain't a type 4.


 
OK...how about "kinda nappy"?


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## Vshanell (Jun 3, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> Oh good lawd...I am more confused now than I was before.  Can someone Puh-lease tell me, if one's hair is wavy/crinkly, not loose beach waves, I'm talking, like remember when dudes wore wave caps and put nu nile in their hair-type waves--what is that????  I thought that was 4b.  Now I'm hearing tight coils are 4b which I thought was 4c.  Cree's hair looks 4a to me, now that's 3b or c???  I'm officially confuzzled...


Andre typed Cree's hair as 3b.  Hair forum's re-typed her as 3c....the whole 3c category was made up on the hair boards because they felt there was too much of a jump between 3b and 4a. I think 4c was added on too.

I would say Cree is a mixture of 3c/b w/o product in that pic.  It actually resembles my naked somewhat manipulated hair.
http://public.fotki.com/Pokahontas/2009/my-naked-hair/naked-hair-033.html


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## ms-gg (Jun 3, 2011)

Yeah Pokahontas, you and Cree are definitely hair twins/cousins


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## Your Cheeziness (Jun 3, 2011)

Da' hell???!?! I thought this was wrapped up in the Haircrush heat damage (or whatever) thread! Where is empressri ?? I need to sing, "This is the song that never ends".


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## EllePixie (Jun 3, 2011)

Your Cheeziness said:


> Da' hell???!?! I thought this was wrapped up in the Haircrush heat damage (or whatever) thread! Where is empressri ?? I need to sing, "This is the song that never ends".



Yes it goes on and on my friends!!!! Some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever justttttttttttt beeeeecaaaaauuuuse......

**Deep breath**

Sorry LOL that is my jam...had to bust back in.


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## ms-gg (Jun 3, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> OK...how about "kinda nappy"?



It depends on the size of the coils (or lack thereof)  and how tight the hair is.  As you saw in wavesncurlz post   as well as Elle's post, they both can get their hair to mimic type 4 hair, but they are not type 4 because they have a looser curl pattern than what is generally considered to be classified as type 4 hair.  


That is why a lot of us are having a hard time being convinced that HC is type 4:

She does not have a tight hair texture 
Her waves/coils/curls/kinks are bigger than what is classified as type 4 hair


And that isn't taking anything away from her hair.  Her hair is beautiful, she is beautiful.  But her hair just isn't what is classified as type 4 despite the frizz/fuzzy/kinks that she has (which as someone else said, could be partly contributed to the fact that she manipulated her hair a lot while it was drying).


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## Kurlee (Jun 3, 2011)

^^^ 

*peeks head in**
Elle Pixie's hair looks like a mix (70/30) of 3c and 4a, based on curl size alone.   

**runs from tomatoes


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## EllePixie (Jun 3, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> ^^^
> 
> *peeks head in**
> Elle Pixie's hair looks like a mix (70/30) of 3c and 4a, based on curl size alone.
> ...



I hate your life for the 70/30.


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## *C00KIE* (Jun 3, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> *C00KIE* - But the thing that is different about HairCrush's hair is this.... what you see in her videos and most of her pictures is NOT her stretched out hair!!! Listen to what she says in some of her videos. That is her hair straight from a wash n go! It's not a twistout nor braidout!!!  Her hair doesn't shrink up into tight little coils.



I understand what you are saying. My problem here is, where is her shrinkage? If one has type 3 or 4, one has shrinkage. She has very little to none because her hair is stretched, and to me she doesn't have type 1 or 2 hair...

ETA. Oh the wash and go situation, this is how i look at it. Someone who constantly blow dry or flatiron their hair, they start to lose curl pattern to the point, they could potentially have heat damage and some curls do not return and stay at a straight stage.
Same thing here but she did not NOT create this w/ heat, only with protective styling in a straight stage, which leave the hair at it stretched stated even if it is wash and go. Also, She probably use mostly moisture products and NOT TOO much protein.

ETA again. Has anyone seen a child who has type 4 hair and her parents normally keep it in small braids or small twist, don''t you notice how the child hair stays at a stretched stage when taken down and if done constantly it would stay like that even after a wash?


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## Kurlee (Jun 3, 2011)

EllePixie said:


> I hate your life for the 70/30.


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## candycotton (Jun 3, 2011)

Cherokee-n-Black said:


> Oh good lawd...I am more confused now than I was before. Can someone Puh-lease tell me, if* one's hair is wavy/crinkly, not loose beach waves*, I'm talking, like remember when dudes wore wave caps and put nu nile in their hair-type waves--what is that???? I thought that was 4b. Now I'm hearing tight coils are 4b which I thought was 4c. Cree's hair looks 4a to me, now that's 3b or c??? I'm officially confuzzled...


 
This is what I was getting at earlier..what is hair thats kinky wavy..we hear about kinky curly but never kinky wavy..the front of my hair is a kinky/frizzy wave/crinkle..not a beach wave, not a curl, not tightly coiled (it grows down not out)..


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## Poohbear (Jun 4, 2011)

In one her videos, she mentioned how she would relax her edges while she was transitioning...  so maybe her hair is texturized... :goodnight:

Sent from my SPH-M910 using SPH-M910


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## Kurlee (Jun 4, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> In one her videos, she mentioned how she would relax her edges while she was transitioning...  so maybe her hair is texturized... :goodnight:
> 
> Sent from my SPH-M910 using SPH-M910


well that concludes this thread


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## youwillrise (Jun 4, 2011)

i used to stay up in this girl's fotki.  

 i didnt know she had videos!


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## *C00KIE* (Jun 4, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> well that concludes this thread


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## ms-gg (Jun 5, 2011)

Will there be a reception afterwards with the church punch: ginger ale and red kool-aid?  All this debating made my throat dry...


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## Poohbear (Jun 6, 2011)

Kurlee said:


> well that concludes this thread



^^^ LOL! 

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da8u_TxphJU

Scroll to 0:55 to see where she said she would relax her edges a few times THROUGHOUT her transition to make it easier to do styles.


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## Lynnerie (Jun 6, 2011)

And in the same video that Poohbear posted look at her one year of growth at 1:07. Sorry thats not type 4 new growth. Tis all.


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## BrownOcean (Jun 6, 2011)

Love her hair. I've been stalking it on Fotki since forever and a day. I wan't my hair just like hers. Longer of course . But yeah, her hair is beautiful


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## HairGroupie (Jun 6, 2011)

It's kinda hard to tell, but I chose 4a anyway. Her hair is beautiful!! It looks time consuming to deal with, though.


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## iri9109 (Jun 6, 2011)




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## Kagrra01 (Jun 7, 2011)

Yep yep I knew it was her   i peeped her out two years ago on fotki when she had just done her big chop, her hair was just as gorgeous then as it is now.

It's interesting to see a recent vid of how long it is compared to then, and I voted that she was 4a/4b.


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## brg240 (Jun 7, 2011)

Ravengirl said:


> No curl pattern when dry but there are waves and maybe a coil or two when wet... looks like a type 4 to me.
> 
> I wonder how long it took her to detangle all that afterward?



that's what i was thinking. No way I let my hair dry with no product. she has more hair than me so she's a good one for doing this.

Idk I think she might be in the 4 category like others have said but i'm not good with hairtyping. I also agree with those that said if she wears it in stretched styles your hair will dry similar she'll have to wear wash & go's for a while and then do this to get a more accurate answer.

Haircrush always makes me feel my hair is lacking. serious case of hair anorexia


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## Poohbear (Jun 7, 2011)

iri9109 said:


>


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## LatterGlory (Jun 7, 2011)

>>>>>


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## Katherina (Jun 7, 2011)

I voted 3b. It's kinky, but her coils are nowhere near as small as a pen spring (4a). She has very little shrinkage, and that's because her curls aren't tight. Sooo thick, kinky 3b.


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## zoromo (Jun 7, 2011)

softblackcotton said:


> I agree. Type 4 with very heavy, thick individual strands. Looks like her hair is so strong, one strand can withstand a 5lb weight being hung from it. Le sigh. There is no secret regime or product to retaining hair that is that strong and almost unbreakable.


 
You are right.  You are just born with this type of hair.


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## MysteryMermaid (Jun 13, 2011)

This chick is SO naturally gorgeous I SWEAR! 

I love seeing breathtaking ladies like her.

Gives me new life


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