# Question about Paula White



## MissYocairis (Mar 29, 2006)

I had TBN on last Friday when I was off of work and Paula White's show came on.  I wasn't really paying attention, just background noise as I straightened up the house.  She was discussing whatever her subject was for the day but then she said something that really caught my attention....she said, and I quote, "giving of your money is the highest form of service to the Lord."  

Can someone help me understand what she meant by that?  Thanks.


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## MissYocairis (Mar 29, 2006)

I had no idea this forum was so dead!


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## poetist (Mar 29, 2006)

I LOVE Paula White, but sometimes I think she focuses excessively on money. But, I know she talks about first fruits alot - in that God asks that we give Him the first and best offerings of everything that we have. So instead of giving Him what we have left over (after we pay our bills, get our hair done, shop, etc) we are to give Him our best monetary offering in reverence of everything that He's done for us. I guess because many people have a problem parting with their money, she considers it the highest form of service and surrender. I think it is a very important part of service and can be done through tithes, but can also be done by giving money to charity, struggling family and friends, and homeless (without expecting anything in return.) I also believe that we serve and honor God by giving of our time, volunteering, helping others, being honest, forgiving, loving, etc. 

So I guess I don't totally agree with her on that


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## MissYocairis (Mar 29, 2006)

poetist said:
			
		

> I LOVE Paula White, but sometimes I think she focuses excessively on money. But, I know she talks about first fruits alot - in that God asks that we give Him the first and best offerings of everything that we have. So instead of giving Him what we have left over (after we pay our bills, get our hair done, shop, etc) we are to give Him our best monetary offering in reverence of everything that He's done for us. I guess because many people have a problem parting with their money, she considers it the highest form of service and surrender. I think it is a very important part of service and can be done through tithes, but can also be done by giving money to charity, struggling family and friends, and homeless (without expecting anything in return.) I also believe that we serve and honor God by giving of our time, volunteering, helping others, being honest, forgiving, loving, etc.
> 
> So I guess I don't totally agree with her on that



Wow, Poetist.  I have to be honest with you...I totally disagreed with Paula and I was offended and upset.  But, reading your explanation and keeping an open mind, since I am not too familiar with Paula's ministry, I am not so offended.  That was a great explanation of where she was coming from with that.  Thank you.


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## mkh_77 (Mar 29, 2006)

In my opinion, she's just another prosperity minister, and I don't care for that type of ministry.


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## MissYocairis (Mar 30, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> In my opinion, she's just another prosperity minister, and I don't care for that type of ministry.



what do you think about the quote mkh?


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

CantBeCopied said:
			
		

> what do you think about the quote mkh?



I think it's a misrepresentation of how God calls people to service.  I also think it's self-serving of her to say that knowing that she receives a substantial portion of whatever money is coming in.

I wrote more about my feelings on this in an Off Topic thread about the minister with the $20K watch.  My comments at that time were directed toward Creflo Dollar's ministry, but I see some parallels in Paula White's, or any prosperity minister, as far as money is concerned.

ETA:  What if you don't have any money to give, but you freely give of your time and talents?  Is your service to the Lord going to be viewed as second-rate because of your financial situation?  According to what I know and have experienced with prosperity ministries, the answer would be "Yes", your service will be second-rate and God will be angry that you didn't give what you didn't have and you will be cursed as a result of not giving.


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## MissYocairis (Mar 30, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> I think it's a misrepresentation of how God calls people to service.  I also think it's self-serving of her to say that knowing that she receives a substantial portion of whatever money is coming in.
> 
> I wrote more about my feelings on this in an Off Topic thread about the minister with the $20K watch.  My comments at that time were directed toward Creflo Dollar's ministry, but I see some parallels in Paula White's, or any prosperity minister, as far as money is concerned.
> 
> ETA:  What if you don't have any money to give, but you freely give of your time and talents?  Is your service to the Lord going to be viewed as second-rate because of your financial situation?  According to what I know and have experienced with prosperity ministries, the answer would be "Yes", your service will be second-rate and God will be angry that you didn't give what you didn't have and you will be cursed as a result of not giving.




Whoo, Lawd, girl you are reading my mind!  This is what was racing through my mind when she said it.  I stopped dead in my tracks and almost caught whiplash turning back to see if she was really saying it!  It bothered me and I have been concerned ever since.  It should have been CLARIFIED if she did not mean it the way you explained but she did not clarify it.  It angers me because my Grandmother follows Evangelist Cerullo and I think he teaches the same way and she sends them large sums of money like they are the gas and electric company!


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

It is sad, and I see people get swept up in these types of ministries all the time.  

I recently went to a church on invitation from my fiance's co-worker.  (I have a church home, but am trying to encourage my fiance to go, and thought this was a good compromise.)  When we got there, my fiance and I were the only people dressed in "church" clothes.  Everyone else was wearing jeans.  I found it odd that the minister was wearing a suit, though, and that really bothered me.  Could he have exploited the financial gap any more blatantly?  

Then the minister went into this sermon about first fruits and how if we didn't give of our first fruits right then and there that we should be ashamed of ourselves and we should know that God wouldn't be pleased with us.  He then went on to list all of his worldy possessions and how much they cost, and claimed he was able to have them because he always gave his first fruits.  I think it was because everyone else was giving their first fruits, and he was getting paid off of that.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 30, 2006)

Even though I like Paula White and her style of preaching, I agree that she doesn focus on harvest and money a bit too much.  Like someone said "prosperity" ministry.  Even though I believe in tithing and giving, I get turned off by the spiel.


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## cocoberry10 (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm not a Paula White fan, and never have been.  And honestly, I can tell you exactly why.  I can't quite put my finger on it, but I've just never been attracted to her preaching style.  Some of her messages have been good, but there's just always been something about her that's rubbed me the wrong way.

Anyway, she like many modern preachers are only "preaching" what they think is right.  The only way to give first fruits to God is to tithe by giving 10% of your earning to a church.  I do not agree with this ideology for many reasons (and yes, I do tithe!).  However, I believe tithing is truly about sacrifice.  Therefore, you can tithe inside or outside of church, IMO, because it's about giving your first fruits to God (and to me that includes God's kingdom, like His people, which are both inside and outside the church).  If you knew someone was in need that didn't go to church, I believe you would serve God equally giving the money (or time if funds are an issue for you) to that person, instead of just having a fat check to put in a collection plate.  Matthew 5:23-24 of the bible even states, "if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift."

Therefore, like all things, if you aren't sure about something regarding tithing, I say the only one you need to communicate with on that subject matter is the Highest One, not the human one!  Just my two cents!


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## sb44 (Mar 30, 2006)

CantBeCopied said:
			
		

> I had TBN on last Friday when I was off of work and Paula White's show came on.  I wasn't really paying attention, just background noise as I straightened up the house.  She was discussing whatever her subject was for the day but then she said something that really caught my attention....she said, and I quote, "giving of your money is the highest form of service to the Lord."
> 
> Can someone help me understand what she meant by that?  Thanks.



Interesting that you mention this.  I'm not big on TBN... but one day I got a phone call with some very bad news about my mother's health.  I was so alone and needed someone to pray with me in that moment.  Paula was on the television.  I called the number they have for prayer.  I WAS SO SURPRISED when someone prayed for me and didn't ask for a donation.  They didn't try to sell me anything. They didn't even ask for my phone number or address so they could contact me for a donation later.  I don't call for prayer often, but when I have EVERYONE else, except for Paula asked for a donation or contact info.  That set her apart in my book! ... and the good news about my mother was that the original diagnosis was wrong!


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## pearlygurl (Mar 30, 2006)

I believe first fruits is all about giving God your best (whatever it may be).  I watch Paula White regularly and I've never heard her suggest for anyone to give a certian amount of money or if someone didn't give a large amount of money, God wouldn't be satisfied with them.  In fact, she tells you to let God lead you in what you want to give.  First fruits is not only money.  It's about giving God the first/best of everthing (time, service, etc.).

When preachers begin to talk about money or giving money...a lot of people get touchy about the subject.  In my opnion, this is a tactic the devil uses to distract us from the real reason why we should give unto the Lord.  If we focus on what a preacher is wearing or driving it's easier not to give God what's his because we think we're giving to the man/woman of God.  Remember, your not tithing/giving to the preacher, you're tithing/giving to God.  Why worry about what a preacher is doing with the money.  If they happen to be misusing the money, don't you think God will take care of that situation?


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## Chyna Red (Mar 30, 2006)

It's not how much you give but the spirit in which you give.


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

pearlygurl said:
			
		

> Why worry about what a preacher is doing with the money.



Because a lot of the people giving the money should be paying their bills or feeding their children and they aren't.  They are giving it to the "church" instead.

Additionally, if it is money that I worked hard to earn, or even money that's just mine for whatever reason, I want to be clear about where it is going and what it will be used for.  Otherwise, I would walk around handing out money everday to anyone.  Just because I am giving money to a church doesn't mean that I shouldn't be concerned about where it goes or what it's used for.

Prosperity ministries are not for everyone, especially me.


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

Chyna Red said:
			
		

> It's not how much you give but the spirit in which you give.



I agree.  But someone should tell that to the minister I mentioned previously.  He stood in the church and told everyone to give a full month's salary.  Then he said to give two weeks worth if you couldn't do a month because if you didn't give at least that much, well, your offerings were going to be labeled second-rate.


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## Southernbella. (Mar 30, 2006)

> I can't quite put my finger on it, but I've just never been attracted to her preaching style. Some of her messages have been good, but there's just always been something about her that's rubbed me the wrong way.



Isn't she the one who uses the "blaccent" when preaching to black folks? If so, I totally feel you on that. 

As far as the quote goes, I think she's wrong.


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## MissYocairis (Mar 30, 2006)

I often have wondered if it made a difference in God's eyes whether I put a check in the collection plate on Sunday or if I took what I had and gave it to an immediate cause right in front of my face.  For instance, let's just say, I was on my way to church....cash in the wallet ready to drop....and I encounter a homeless family on the street where the mother is asking me for help. What if it comes down to choosing between charities?  The church or the immediate need in front of you of your fellow man?  Do you divide it up?  Do you double your gift and give full amount to the church and then equal to the immediate cause in front of you?  What about my Grandmother who does nothing but break off her retirement and Social Security income in large sums monthly for the church and then cannot afford to attend the annual conventions in Cali?  Is it safe to trust the guidance of a pastor whose very living conditions depend on your "tithing" when it comes to how much you should give to be "in service to the Lord"?


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

CantBeCopied said:
			
		

> I often have wondered if it made a difference in God's eyes whether I put a check in the collection plate on Sunday or if I took what I had and gave it to an immediate cause right in front of my face.  For instance, let's just say, I was on my way to church....cash in the wallet ready to drop....and I encounter a homeless family on the street where the mother is asking me for help. What if it comes down to choosing between charities?  The church or the immediate need in front of you of your fellow man?  Do you divide it up?  Do you double your gift and give full amount to the church and then equal to the immediate cause in front of you?  What about my Grandmother who does nothing but break off her retirement and Social Security income in large sums monthly for the church and then cannot afford to attend the annual conventions in Cali?  Is it safe to trust the guidance of a pastor whose very living conditions depend on your "tithing" when it comes to how much you should give to be "in service to the Lord"?



For some people, their time is money.  In my opinion, giving your time is just as good and sometimes even better than giving money.  I understand the church needs money to support itself, but there is something to be said about being face to face and helping someone in need.

If I were on my way to church and encountered a family who needed immediate help, I would have to take a detour that day and use whatever money I was going to put in church to make them more comfortable, even if it were temporary.  I've given my money, my time and my talents to church, and I don't think God favors one expression of love over another.

As for the other scenarios, I think you can gather from my previous posts how I feel.


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## pearlygurl (Mar 30, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Because a lot of the people giving the money should be paying their bills or feeding their children and they aren't.  They are giving it to the "church" instead.
> 
> Well that's not responsible.  Christians should be good stewards over their money (paying bills on time, etc.).  I believe you have to have the right attitude/motives in your giving.  I do believe that we should tithe 10% no matter what, even when times are hard.  I believe God honors his word conerning tithing.  There have been times when it seemed impossible to do this but God ALWAYS has provided
> 
> ...


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

pearlygurl said:
			
		

> I do believe that we should tithe 10% no matter what, even when times are hard.  I believe God honors his word conerning tithing.  There have been times when it seemed impossible to do this but God ALWAYS has provided



Do you realize that not everyone can do this?  There are some people in this world who are entrenched in poverty and $1.00 is a lot of money for them.  I am not being sarcastic, I am being very serious.

Besides, are you implying that if you don't give, especially when it's hard, that God won't provide?  





			
				peralygurl said:
			
		

> We have two different opinions about money.  The money that I have is not really mine, I don't own anything...it all belongs to God.  It's just up to me to manage what he has blessed me with.



Please don't make assumptions about how I view my money or the possessions I have. 



			
				pearlygurl said:
			
		

> I'm not saying being irresponsible when you give but I think too many times the focused gets put on the wrong thing (pastor's clothes/watch) rather than giving itself.  I'm not saying send your money to a ministry that is crooked or has been proven to be wrong.



Why give and not be mindful of where your money is going?  That's contradictory with your post about being responsible with what God has blessed you with.

Often times ministries are proven crooked AFTER people have given their money.


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## pearlygurl (Mar 30, 2006)

CantBeCopied said:
			
		

> I often have wondered if it made a difference in God's eyes whether I put a check in the collection plate on Sunday or if I took what I had and gave it to an immediate cause right in front of my face.  For instance, let's just say, I was on my way to church....cash in the wallet ready to drop....and I encounter a homeless family on the street where the mother is asking me for help. What if it comes down to choosing between charities?  The church or the immediate need in front of you of your fellow man?  Do you divide it up?  Do you double your gift and give full amount to the church and then equal to the immediate cause in front of you?  What about my Grandmother who does nothing but break off her retirement and Social Security income in large sums monthly for the church and then cannot afford to attend the annual conventions in Cali?  Is it safe to trust the guidance of a pastor whose very living conditions depend on your "tithing" when it comes to how much you should give to be "in service to the Lord"?



Are we talking about giving or tithing?  If we are talking about tithing, I believe 10% goes to God off the top, no questions.  Why?  Because that's all he requires of us.  Once you give God what's his, then what you give (time, charities) is up to you.  There is a scripture in the bible talking about if you see a brother in need, you should help him whether he/she needs food or someone to talk to.  As for trust, you should only put your trust in God.  God will lead you in how to give, if you ask for his guidance.  Ask for wisdom on what to do and how to do it and he will show you.  There is no set amount of how much you should give to the Lord, it's between you and him.


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

pearlygurl said:
			
		

> Are we talking about giving or tithing?  If we are talking about tithing, I believe 10% goes to God off the top, no questions.  Why?  Because that's all he requires of us.  Once you give God what's his, then what you give (time, charities) is up to you.



Where is it mentioned in the Bible that you are supposed to give 10%?


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

pearlygurl said:
			
		

> No, I'm saying the opposite.  God WILL provide for you so that you CAN give.
> Ps 37:25 - Show Context
> I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.



Then why are there so many destitute people in the world who don't have anything to give?



			
				peralygurl said:
			
		

> I was talking about how we sometimes get too caught up in what the pastor is driving etc and we loose focus on what true giving is about.



To ignore what the pastor is doing/wearing when it is your money that pays his/her salary is foolish, in my opinion, especially if the pastor is a full time employee of the church.  That's essentially turning a blind eye to what's going on.  In my opinion, true giving is about helping those who need it, not helping the pastor to go on vacation or purchase a swanky home, car or clothes.


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## pearlygurl (Mar 30, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> To ignore what the pastor is doing/wearing when it is your money that pays his/her salary is foolish, in my opinion, especially if the pastor is a full time employee of the church.  That's essentially turning a blind eye to what's going on.  In my opinion, true giving is about helping those who need it, not helping the pastor to go on vacation or purchase a swanky home, car or clothes.



If a person doesn't feel comfortable giving to a minsitry, they shouldn't. Find a place where you feel comfortable to give. No you should not be giving to a ministry that is crooked or that you feel that is doing wrong. But if a pastor is honest, I don't think it's fair to automatically look at him wrong if he happens to be driving a nice car etc. A lot of the times, I think pastors are just reaping what they have sown into their ministries. For instance, my current pastor had his house and car repossed you name it, it happened to him. He literally gave up a lot to start my church. But now God has blessed him with a beautiful home, his own business etc.


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## pearlygurl (Mar 30, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Where is it mentioned in the Bible that you are supposed to give 10%?



A tithe means 1/10 or 10%


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## pearlygurl (Mar 30, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Please don't make assumptions about how I view my money or the possessions I have.



Wasn't trying to make any assumptions, sorry if I offended you


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## pearlygurl (Mar 30, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Then why are there so many destitute people in the world who don't have anything to give?



I believe you can give out of your need.  God knows what's a lot of money for you and he will honor your giving even if it's a penny, when it's done with the right motives.  Oh, and just so there isn't any confusion, by right motives I mean not giving to impress people or put on a show etc. 

Wow this is the most I have ever posted on a topic. This was fun.  I guess we can agree to respect each others opinions.  I need to get off this computer so I can study


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

pearlygurl said:
			
		

> A tithe means 1/10 or 10%



Rephrasing:  Where in the New Testament does it say that Christians are supposed to give 10% to God?


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## GodsPromises (Mar 30, 2006)

I truly believe in titing.  It has not always been easy for me to do but I believe in the practice and the spirit of tithing.  When I tite is seems like everything just comes easier.  Not saying that God doesn't bless those who doen't tithe but for me when I tithe especially when I tithe in faith meaning when I really don't have it and I stand on the Word of God that says that "he will pour out a blessing so big that I wouldn't be able to handle it". I believe that word and tithe standing on that Word.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 30, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Where is it mentioned in the Bible that you are supposed to give 10%?



Search the internet.  There are a number of verses.


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## mkh_77 (Mar 30, 2006)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> Search the internet.  There are a number of verses.



I did.  I didn't find any, so that's why I asked.

Tithing is mentioned in the OT as something that is expected, but not in the NT, and that is my point.  We aren't called to tithe according to the NT.


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## Belle Du Jour (Mar 30, 2006)

Just because something is mentioned in the old testament and not the new doesn't negate it.


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## Southernbella. (Mar 30, 2006)

> Are we talking about giving or tithing? If we are talking about tithing, I believe 10% goes to God off the top, no questions.



But, to go back to CBC's question, why can't the money going to the family be going to God? Do Christians really believe that God is only inside the church walls? I've always wondered why tithers HAVE to fill out their collection envelopes and place them in the church basket. Does God not know how much you've given until he sees your envelope?



> Just because something is mentioned in the old testament and not the new doesn't negate it.



Actually, when Jesus died, he fulfilled ALL of the Old Testament Laws, one of which is tithing. I've studied this extensively, and of all the Old Testament laws, the tithe is the only one churches are holding fast to. Why is that I wonder? Also, the tithe as it is practiced in churches today is unlawful. Under the law, only Levitical priests were allowed to collect the tithe. Jesus was the last Levitical priest, and when he died, he completed that lineage. Jews today don't collect tithes, per se, because there are no Levitical priests, and it would therefore be unlawful.

So, under the tithe law, any preacher who collects tithes today is saying he is a Levitical priest, which is impossible. In the New Testament, Christians are instructed to GIVE according to what is placed in their hearts, which could be 5, 10, 15, or 50%. It's a direct contradiction to tell a congregation that God doesn't want you to give under compulsion, then turn around and compel them to give 10%. I believe we are to GIVE, but tithing is not required for Christians.


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## cocoberry10 (Mar 31, 2006)

CantBeCopied said:
			
		

> I often have wondered if it made a difference in God's eyes whether I put a check in the collection plate on Sunday or if I took what I had and gave it to an immediate cause right in front of my face.  For instance, let's just say, I was on my way to church....cash in the wallet ready to drop....and I encounter a homeless family on the street where the mother is asking me for help. What if it comes down to choosing between charities?  The church or the immediate need in front of you of your fellow man?  Do you divide it up?  Do you double your gift and give full amount to the church and then equal to the immediate cause in front of you?  What about my Grandmother who does nothing but break off her retirement and Social Security income in large sums monthly for the church and then cannot afford to attend the annual conventions in Cali?  Is it safe to trust the guidance of a pastor whose very living conditions depend on your "tithing" when it comes to how much you should give to be "in service to the Lord"?



I know just what you mean.  I think back to the story in the bible where Mary was preparing for Jesus to come to her house.  She was cooking, etc. and Jesus appeared to her 3 times that day in different forms, but she missed them all.  In my opinion, I would give to the family in need.  I personally believe God will put people in our path that need us to show them His love.

I am attaching a story about a homeless preacher that reminds me of this situation...

It was a cold winter's day that Sunday. The parking lot to the church was filling up quickly. I noticed as I got out of my car that fellow church members were whispering among themselves as they walked to the church. As I got closer I saw a man leaned up against the wall outside the church. He was almost laying down as if he was asleep. He had on a long trench coat that was almost in shreds and a hat topped his head, pulled down so you could not see his face. He wore shoes that looked 30 years old, too small for his feet with holes all over them, his toes stuck out. 
I assumed this man was homeless, and asleep, so I walked on by through the doors of the church. We all Fellowshipped for a few minutes, and someone brought up the man laying outside. People snickered and gossiped but no one bothered to ask him to come in, including me. 
A few moments later church began. 
We all waited for the Preacher to take his place and to give us the Word, when the doors to the church opened. In came the homeless man walking down the aisle with his head down. People gasped and whispered and made faces. he made his way down the aisle and up onto the pulpit he took off his hat and coat. My heart sank. There stood our preacher...he was the "homeless man".


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## cocoberry10 (Mar 31, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> Isn't she the one who uses the "blaccent" when preaching to black folks? If so, I totally feel you on that.
> 
> As far as the quote goes, I think she's wrong.



Yes, maybe that's what makes me not like her, but I don't think so.  T.D. Jakes is her mentor, so it would make sense that she has an "accent" and I think she's from the deep south (rural Florida or Georgia to be exact).


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## mkh_77 (Mar 31, 2006)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> Just because something is mentioned in the old testament and not the new doesn't negate it.



As Christians we don't follow the laws of the OT because, as Lauren450 pointed out, Jesus' coming fulfilled all of the laws of the OT.  Didn't you know that when accepting Jesus Chirst as your Lord and Savior?  By accepting Him, you are no longer bound to those laws that were put in place in an effort to give you communion with God.  By following the laws of the OT, you are not acknowledging that Jesus came to fulfill the prophecy, and you are negating His purpose.

If you want to follow the laws of the OT, then you might want to consider converting to Judaism, as that is their focus.


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## Southernbella. (Mar 31, 2006)

cocoberry10 said:
			
		

> Yes, maybe that's what makes me not like her, but I don't think so.  T.D. Jakes is her mentor, so it would make sense that she has an "accent" and I think she's from the deep south (rural Florida or Georgia to be exact).



Sorry, I didn't just mean accent, I meant saying stuff like, "Sister girl!" and "Girlfriend!". I want to say I've heard her speak and was turned off by that, but it could have been someone else.


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## Southernbella. (Mar 31, 2006)

> As Christians we don't follow the laws of the OT because, as Lauren450 pointed out, Jesus' coming fulfilled all of the laws of the OT. Didn't you know that when accepting Jesus Chirst as your Lord and Savior? By accepting Him, you are no longer bound to those laws that were put in place in an effort to give you communion with God. By following the laws of the OT, you are not acknowledging that Jesus came to fulfill the prophecy, and you are negating His purpose.



Exactly, and the church has been putting us all right back in bondage with the tithe law. There are several scriptures that talk about Jesus fulfilling the law. I'll try and find some and come back!


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## MissYocairis (Mar 31, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> But, to go back to CBC's question, why can't the money going to the family be going to God? Do Christians really believe that God is only inside the church walls? I've always wondered why tithers HAVE to fill out their collection envelopes and place them in the church basket. Does God not know how much you've given until he sees your envelope?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great info, Lauren!


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## cocoberry10 (Mar 31, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> Sorry, I didn't just mean accent, I meant saying stuff like, "Sister girl!" and "Girlfriend!". I want to say I've heard her speak and was turned off by that, but it could have been someone else.



Oh now I know what you mean.  Yes, she does do this a lot and it irritates me too


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## sunnyjohn (Mar 31, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> Sorry, I didn't just mean accent, I meant saying stuff like, "Sister girl!" and "Girlfriend!". I want to say I've heard her speak and was turned off by that, but it could have been someone else.



Rod Parsley does that too. I can't watch him.


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## Belle Du Jour (Apr 2, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> By following the laws of the OT, you are not acknowledging that Jesus came to fulfill the prophecy, and you are negating His purpose.



I think that's just wrong.  God said that not one jot or thistle of His Word would pass away.  Find the scripture that says we are free to disregard the OT.



			
				mkh_77 said:
			
		

> If you want to follow the laws of the OT, then you might want to consider converting to Judaism, as that is their focus.



Was that statement really necessary?


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## Belle Du Jour (Apr 2, 2006)

In regards to PW using a certain vernacular and being caucasion, I think it's silly to assume she's trying to talk that way to attract black viewers (esp given her background).  It's almost the same as assuming that because I'm black I should speak ebonics.


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## Southernbella. (Apr 2, 2006)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> In regards to PW using a certain vernacular and being caucasion, I think it's silly to assume she's trying to talk that way to attract black viewers (esp given her background).  It's almost the same as assuming that because I'm black I should speak ebonics.



Then why doesn't she speak to her white audience that way?



> God said that not one jot or thistle of His Word would pass away. Find the scripture that says we are free to disregard the OT.



Fair enough. Do you give the Lord burnt offerings of animals? Do you wear blue tassels in the corner of all your clothes? Do you eat unleavened bread for 7 days straight in honor of the Lord like He commanded? 

*Romans 7:6  But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.*

These things, including tithing, were laws in the Old Testament. If Jesus died to deliver us from the old covenant (OT laws), and God says we are delivered from the law, how can we still then be bound to it? And how can you pick and choose which Old Testament laws to obey?


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## mkh_77 (Apr 2, 2006)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> Was that statement really necessary?



Yes.  It goes to my point that Christians focus on the NT, and Jews focus on the OT.  If you took it in a negative way, that is unfortunate as I didn't mean it to be negative.

And, again, as Lauren pointed out, Jesus came to deliver us from the laws of the OT.  That is the whole point of the Good News--that we don't have to be bound by the laws of men because Jesus came to set us free from that and to provide the grace, love and salvation that those laws couldn't.

But, you are entitled to your opinion just as I am.


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## cocoberry10 (Apr 2, 2006)

classimami713 said:
			
		

> In regards to PW using a certain vernacular and being caucasion, I think it's silly to assume she's trying to talk that way to attract black viewers (esp given her background).  It's almost the same as assuming that because I'm black I should speak ebonics.





			
				lauren450 said:
			
		

> Then why doesn't she speak to her white audience that way?



Exactly!  I wouldn't have a problem with it if she spoke to everyone that way, but I also notice that she is different when a Black guest is on versus when a white guest is on.  I even remember her saying to a Black female guest, I'm a sister, girlfriend.  Giving her the benefit of the doubt  , maybe she doesn't realize that a statement like that could be offensive to some Black women.  However, my disinterest in her is not because of that, it's something else.  Again, I can't put my finger on it, and almost feel bad, because I normally am a fan and supporter of female pastors.


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## Yellowflowers (Apr 2, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> Then why doesn't she speak to her white audience that way?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whew! It was no accident I stumbled on this post. My girlfriend and I were talking about this very thing.  I got shivers when I read your post.  I have never heard this someone explain this so elequantly.  

I don't think any of us ignore the old testement but we are certainly not bound by it.  The old testement serves as history. We do not have to sacrfice animals to be heard by God because he offered himself up to be the utimate sacrifice.  

We are released from the old law of an eye for an eye.  (karma) We could not be forgiven until we suffered from the sins we commited. That was the whole purpose of Christ dying on the cross to release us from this.  Now we can pray anywhere.   We do not have to suffer from our sins (karma) if we truly repent and ask for forgiveness.  We then come under the law of Grace.

As for the 10 percent, I think the church of that day was being chastised because they were not taking care of the church not bring food offerings etc. This was never a commandment.

Lauren I really enjoyed your enlightening post.

Also tithes can be tithes and *offerings.* (time, service etc.)  It does not have to be money.


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## pearlygurl (Apr 2, 2006)

I talked to my dad, he's big on theology etc. and he told me that no Christians DON'T HAVE to tithe because of the whole Old Testament and God breaking the laws.  He said you shouldn't give because someone is making you, you should want to give (money, time, etc.) out of love because of what God has done for you.  Oh, and he said that how some churches preach about how if you don't tithe you will be cursed is also false because God freed us from curses.  My dad did say that even though you don't have to tithe (10%), you still can and God honors the principle behind that law.  These are JUST OPINIONS...not trying to make anyone believe anything


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## Southernbella. (Apr 2, 2006)

> I don't think any of us ignore the old testement but we are certainly not bound by it. The old testement serves as history. We do not have to sacrfice animals to be heard by God because he offered himself up to be the utimate sacrifice.



Yep! I was reading some of Billy Graham's teachings on the Old Testament, and he was saying that it's like a slap in the face to God to think we have to DO anything to curry favor with Him, when He sent His son to die that we would be free from all the stuff the children of Israel had to do to get close to God. Everything before Jesus was about DOING things, these rituals and ceremonies and strict regulations. Everything after Jesus was about freedom, and being able to get to God ourselves. It was about the spirit, not the law. The more I study it, the more I see that it is a theme that runs throughout the Bible. 




> Also tithes can be tithes and offerings. (time, service etc.) It does not have to be money.



Exactly. As Christians, we are instructed to GIVE whatever is in our hearts to give, but how many Christians are in bondage to the 10% of your gross income rule? Many, I would guess.


I was telling my husband that I dare any preacher to actually teach the truth about giving. If you can find me one church that teaches it right, I would be more than happy to sow into that ministry, and I believe that church would be so blessed they wouldn't have room to receive it all.

I remember when my old pastor went off of salary and told us that if we felt like giving to him and his family, do so, and if not, it's perfectly fine. I will never forget how humbled he was when he realized that he was receiving way MORE than when he was on salary. The same principal applies to churches, I think. We are always told to step out on faith and see how God will bless us, yet church leaders are afraid to do that when it comes to  tithing vs. giving. It's time for some preachers to tell the truth and step out on faith.



> I talked to my dad, he's big on theology etc. and he told me that no Christians DON'T HAVE to tithe because of the whole Old Testament and God breaking the laws. He said you shouldn't give because someone is making you, you should want to give (money, time, etc.) out of love because of what God has done for you. Oh, and he said that how some churches preach about how if you don't tithe you will be cursed is also false because God freed us from curses. My dad did say that even though you don't have to tithe (10%), you still can and God honors the principle behind that law. These are JUST OPINIONS...not trying to make anyone believe anything



ITA with everything your dad says. I also don't begrudge anyone for tithing. After all, if you join a church, you are submitting to a pastor's authority, so if he says to tithe, you have to be obedient to that. I just feel that the teaching is incorrect, and many people are in bondage to it.


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## Yellowflowers (Apr 3, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> Yep! I was reading some of Billy Graham's teachings on the Old Testament, and he was saying that it's like a slap in the face to God to think we have to DO anything to curry favor with Him, when He sent His son to die that we would be free from all the stuff the children of Israel had to do to get close to God. Everything before Jesus was about DOING things, these rituals and ceremonies and strict regulations. Everything after Jesus was about freedom, and being able to get to God ourselves. It was about the spirit, not the law. The more I study it, the more I see that it is a theme that runs throughout the Bible.
> 
> Exactly. As Christians, we are instructed to GIVE whatever is in our hearts to give, but how many Christians are in bondage to the 10% of your gross income rule? Many, I would guess.
> 
> ...





You are so right.  It is so wrong for ministers to place people in bondage with scripture for financial gain, taking advantage of people who are searching for spiritual enlightenment.

Jesus did not live a lavish lifestyle at the expense of the church.

By the way Lauren, you and the little cutie are absolutely gorgeous.


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## czyfaith77 (Apr 3, 2006)

poetist said:
			
		

> I LOVE Paula White, but sometimes I think she focuses excessively on money. But, I know she talks about first fruits alot - in that God asks that we give Him the first and best offerings of everything that we have. So instead of giving Him what we have left over (after we pay our bills, get our hair done, shop, etc) we are to give Him our best monetary offering in reverence of everything that He's done for us. I guess because many people have a problem parting with their money, she considers it the highest form of service and surrender. I think it is a very important part of service and can be done through tithes, but can also be done by giving money to charity, struggling family and friends, and homeless (without expecting anything in return.) I also believe that we serve and honor God by giving of our time, volunteering, helping others, being honest, forgiving, loving, etc.
> 
> So I guess I don't totally agree with her on that


 
I fully agree with this post.  I've have been watching Paula White since she came on television five years ago and I saw her at the God's Leading Ladies Conference in Charlotte a few years ago with T.D. Jakes. The woman has a truly sincere love for God and His people.  She truly has a pastor's heart and not that of a hireling.  The only times I hear her speak of money is in reference to an offering (such as what is described above, the importance of tithing (which I believe in doing from the depths of my heart and soul ) and blessing someone in need because she does alot of work with the homeless and single parent families in Tampa and other places.


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## pearlygurl (Apr 3, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> I was telling my husband that I dare any preacher to actually teach the truth about giving. If you can find me one church that teaches it right, I would be more than happy to sow into that ministry, and I believe that church would be so blessed they wouldn't have room to receive it all.
> 
> We are always told to step out on faith and see how God will bless us, yet church leaders are afraid to do that when it comes to  tithing vs. giving. It's time for some preachers to tell the truth and step out on faith.



I think this has a lot to do with the preachers not knowing themselves.  Most probably grew up hearing this message so they preach it themselves and so the cycle continues...


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## shalom (Apr 6, 2006)

Can I give give my 2 cents regarding tithing.  I'm going to say this first in case someone has questions and wants biblical reference I don't have the time to back this up with scriptures because I'm at work.  

According to my teachings OT sacrificially offerings (atonement) and the church (tithe) are two separate entities.  When Jesus Christ gave his life on calvary's cross he shed his blood for the remission of sin.  Once the blood of Jesus was shed it is not longer necessary for the slaining of animal for atonement.  Tithes were used to help those who were underpriviledged and it is a ritual, but it has nothing to do with SIN which is the difference between the two.  Jesus gave his life to abolish the rituals that were once used to offer forgiveness for sin.  Tithes don't have anything to do with sin.

Disregarding the OT would mean that we are disregarding Abraham our founding father who all our covenient promises came through.  Please don't disregard the OT.

I agree with where you place your tithes is debatable.  Worrying about what the pastor does with the money is not my problem that's between him and God, tithing is supposed to be an act of obedience to the Lord.

I also don't believe that giving money is the greatest sacrifice as someone may have menation PW insinuated.  I believe that the greatest sacrafice any of us can give is that of our love, kindness, mercy and forgiveness to our fellow man.  It's what Jesus did when he gave his life on calvary's cross.  He gave his life because he loves us.

As stated earlier just my 2 cents.


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## Southernbella. (Apr 6, 2006)

> Disregarding the OT would mean that we are disregarding Abraham our founding father who all our covenient promises came through. Please don't disregard the OT.



I don't think anyone is saying that we should disregard the OT. The question is, do Old Testament LAWS (like tithing, wearing certain clothing, sacrificing, eating certain food, etc.) apply to Christians today, and the answer is no.



> tithing is supposed to be an act of obedience to the Lord.



Yes, for the people of Israel. They were the chosen people, and they had specific instructions about the tithe, as it was for their inheritance, etc. Christians are not instructed to tithe, we are instructed to GIVE. There's a big difference. Lastly, if the tithe were still lawful today, the way we do it would be completely incorrect. You would think that if pastors/preachers were really trying to get us to be obedient to God, they would teach us to tithe the way the children of Israel tithed. But that would bring in less money, I guess.


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## Nice & Wavy (Apr 6, 2006)

I'm sorry ladies, but this is one time I have to say something.

Our concern should be to preach the gospel, in season and out of season.  We have to remember that there are many non-christians that read these threads and when they see the back and forth that is going on the way it is...no wonder they don't want to come to Christ.

In everything we must always remember who we are in Christ.  It's Him we always want to lift up and exalt.  Even if you feel that you are right in what you are saying, remember the Holy Spirit is the One that will bring correction and especially the truth.

Let us come together and help those that don't know Jesus.  Yes, there are many who should be preaching this (those we see on tv, etc.), but our job is not to judge them or speak about them in any manner, but to be a light upon a hill which cannot be hidden.

I speak blessings over all of you and pray that my reply doesn't come across in a bad way, I surely didn't mean for it to be that way.

Blessings...


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## BeaLady (Apr 6, 2006)

> Let us come together and help those that don't know Jesus. Yes, there are many who should be preaching this (those we see on tv, etc.), but our job is not to judge them or speak about them in any manner, but to be a light upon a hill which cannot be hidden.



I totally agree.  Regarding the original question, bringing a soul to Christ is the highest form of service a Christian can do.


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## Nice & Wavy (Apr 6, 2006)

BeaLady said:
			
		

> I totally agree. Regarding the original question, bringing a soul to Christ is the highest form of service a Christian can do.


 
Amen.  Stay blessed.


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