# Faith Healers:  Real or False?



## Guitarhero (Dec 29, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_QiVi3mchE&feature=related


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## Shimmie (Dec 29, 2011)

This is a good topic which brings 'awareness' to the surface.   

The term 'faith healer' is suspect as it tends to give glory and the focus of healing upon the 'human being' and not upon the true Healer who is God.


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## SummerSolstice (Dec 30, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> This is a good topic which brings 'awareness' to the surface.
> 
> The term 'faith healer' is suspect as it tends to give glory and the focus of healing upon the 'human being' and not upon the true Healer who is God.



Right I think this and other "ministries" like it are self-righteous acts. There is a "look what I can do" air about these faith healers.


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

SummerSolstice said:


> Right I think this and other "ministries" like it are self-righteous acts. There is a "look what I can do" air about these faith healers.



SummerSolstice, thank you.    What's scarey is that it has too many 'broken' people looking to one person who can 'heal them'.   

No matter who prays, it's still God who does the healing.


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## BostonMaria (Dec 30, 2011)

We all have the ability to heal ourselves with the Word of God. By His stripes we are healed. My church has a healing ministry and I've seen people get delivered from diseases. 


Sent from my fancy iPhone using LHCF


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## SummerSolstice (Dec 30, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> @SummerSolstice, thank you.    What's scarey is that it has too many 'broken' people looking to one person who can 'heal them'.
> 
> No matter who prays, it's still God who does the healing.



its even better when they do the vacuums and blenders 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3xCVzScmSg

watch how the lady in the beginning spoke about the healer instead of the TRUE HEALER. interesting video as a whole. 
I think that prayer does indeed do powerful things but prayer can also lead you to a REAL doctor to give you REAL medicine. God does give us tools.


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## ktykaty (Dec 30, 2011)

@Guitarhero 

Hello, 
What is "faith healing" ? It's the first time I hear/see this.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 30, 2011)

ktykaty


Pastors  whose ministry involves services focused upon supernatural healings.  There are those who are not pastors as well.  It takes on a negative connotation because many of the television evangelists have been exposed as fake in that, there were no supernatural healings.  Guerir une personne selon la foi en Jesus ou en Dieu.  Moi, je crois dans les guerisons a Lourdes et Medugorje.


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## ktykaty (Dec 30, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> @ktykaty
> 
> 
> Pastors  whose ministry involves services focused upon supernatural healings.  There are those who are not pastors as well.  It takes on a negative connotation because many of the television evangelists have been exposed as fake in that, there were no supernatural healings.



 OK. Thanks.

I used to go to a "healing service" in a Parisian parish. It's a healing ministry, and it's clear that the one and only healer is Jesus. It doesn't look like what you describe. erplexed


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## Guitarhero (Dec 30, 2011)

There are absolute healings...however, some of these people are using it for financial gain and they string folks along who need a healing (they pay to attend some of these services).  Benny Hinn ...check out his info.

I know of a healing that took place (well, let's say "miraculous and spontaneous healing" cuz if we overcome a cold, that's a healing) of the Virgin Mary.  A married woman of children, devout catholic, suffered from breast cancer and was sure she would die.  I can't remember exactly the time-frame of her prayers...but one night, Jesus had sent his mother to cut out her cancer.  She was aware of it and endured the pain of it.  Our Lady cut it out and by the next morning, when she awakened, she wasn't sure if it had been a dream, but there was no lump, a surgical scar of sorts, and a white cloth stained with blood in the shape of a cross on it. I think it had been lain over her chest.  This lady went to her physician was treating her and her cancer had been removed and healed.  

We've had the services of faith healing at our church but they take no money.  It's just another mass.  Whether the offering goes to help that other ministry, I'm not sure (I think they dedicate a second offering).  Our church believes very much in healing and pray, unction for the sick and intentions/mass offerings, alms etc.  I just become sad that people are abusing this.  There have been many people, protestant and universal church (catholic, orthodox etc.) who have been gifted with healing.  Some of these on television are STEALING from the children of G-d.


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## makeupgirl (Dec 30, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> There are absolute healings...however, some of these people are using it for financial gain and they string folks along who need a healing (they pay to attend some of these services). Benny Hinn ...check out his info.
> 
> *I know of a healing that took place (well, let's say "miraculous and spontaneous healing" cuz if we overcome a cold, that's a healing) of the Virgin Mary. A married woman of children, devout catholic, suffered from breast cancer and was sure she would die. I can't remember exactly the time-frame of her prayers...but one night, Jesus had sent his mother to cut out her cancer. She was aware of it and endured the pain of it*. Our Lady cut it out and by the next morning, when she awakened, she wasn't sure if it had been a dream, but there was no lump, a surgical scar of sorts, and a white cloth stained with blood in the shape of a cross on it. I think it had been lain over her chest. This lady went to her physician was treating her and her cancer had been removed and healed.
> 
> We've had the services of faith healing at our church but they take no money. It's just another mass. Whether the offering goes to help that other ministry, I'm not sure (I think they dedicate a second offering). Our church believes very much in healing and pray, unction for the sick and intentions/mass offerings, alms etc. I just become sad that people are abusing this. There have been many people, protestant and universal church (catholic, orthodox etc.) who have been gifted with healing. Some of these on television are STEALING from the children of G-d.


 
Why would Jesus send his mother?  If the woman was healed, it was by God himself but also because she had faith that God will heal her.  It's with Jesus' stripes that we are healed, even when our infirmities are not healed when we want it to be.


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> There are absolute healings...however, some of these people are using it for financial gain and they string folks along who need a healing (they pay to attend some of these services).  Benny Hinn ...check out his info.
> 
> I know of a healing that took place (well, let's say "miraculous and spontaneous healing" cuz if we overcome a cold, that's a healing) of the Virgin Mary.  A married woman of children, devout catholic, suffered from breast cancer and was sure she would die.  I can't remember exactly the time-frame of her prayers...but one night, Jesus had sent his mother to cut out her cancer.  She was aware of it and endured the pain of it.  Our Lady cut it out and by the next morning, when she awakened, she wasn't sure if it had been a dream, but there was no lump, a surgical scar of sorts, and a white cloth stained with blood in the shape of a cross on it. I think it had been lain over her chest.  This lady went to her physician was treating her and her cancer had been removed and healed.
> 
> We've had the services of faith healing at our church but they take no money.  It's just another mass.  Whether the offering goes to help that other ministry, I'm not sure (I think they dedicate a second offering).  Our church believes very much in healing and pray, unction for the sick and intentions/mass offerings, alms etc.  I just become sad that people are abusing this.  There have been many people, protestant and universal church (catholic, orthodox etc.) who have been gifted with healing.  Some of these on television are STEALING from the children of G-d.



I can't tell you how many times I've witnessed as well as experienced God's healing in the lives of me, my family, my friends and those whom I've prayed with and for.   God gets all of the glory.

Two years ago, my cousins husband had a cancerous growth on the side of his nose which affected his left eye.    After numerous exams, it was determined by the doctors at Johns Hopkins Hospital that his eye would have to be removed to save his life.

Our Church and family prayed and fasted for two weeks; no one wanted him to lose his eye, let alone his life.    

One morning, he was in the bathroom and the growth on his face fell off and into the sink.      

*YES ...  * *that's exactly what happened.    The cancerous growth on his face fell off and into the bathroom sink.   *

We have medical evidence from several doctors from different hospitals during the months of his illness that all said that he would have to have his eye removed and still undergo radiation treatment.   

God answered prayer.   God healed my cousin's husband from cancer and saved his eye and to this day, we ALL still stand amazed at what God did and how He did it.   

Any healing that takes place in our lives comes from God and God alone.  It's God's Word and it's not changing.   No other source or human can take credit for what God has designed.


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## ktykaty (Dec 30, 2011)

The very term "faith healers" bother me. Do those people think they are like God ? Do they compare themselves to the Holy Spirit ? Don't they know they are only the vessel the Power of God use ? Don't they know how powerless they truly are ? What about humility ?

It's a sad day when so called minister do not recognize that it's God who gives the gift of healing (cf 1Co 12) . Supernatural healings are biblical, but it's must always be clear for the person who is healed and for the witnesses that it's the Power of God who does the healing. All miracles and charisma are given for the edification of the Church. If the Church is not edified, there's a huge problem.

This whole " faith healers" thing does not sit well with my spirit erplexed.


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## ktykaty (Dec 30, 2011)

makeupgirl said:


> Why would Jesus send his mother?  If the woman was healed, it was by God himself but also because she had faith that God will heal her.  It's with Jesus' stripes that we are healed, even when our infirmities are not healed when we want it to be.



God delegates his power. 

Whether it's a doctor, a healing service, so and so prayer, a priest, a pastor, the Virgin Mary, or ..., they are only vessel of the Holy Spirit. It's the Power of God who heals. All the glory still goes to Him.


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

SummerSolstice said:


> its even better when they do the vacuums and blenders
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3xCVzScmSg
> 
> ...



I believe also that prayer can lead one to a doctor that God wants to use in the healing process.   Doctors can be used to explain to a patient what they are doing or not doing to cause a certain illness or symptom.  

While I prefer the 'Natural Health Route', I will not rule out doctors and certain medications.     Depending on where I am or what I'm doing, if I have to take a Tylenol or Advil, so be it rather than 'suffer' through the discomfort.  But I'm still praying.     

More times than not, taking Lycopene (supplement) prevents / eliminates headaches.  I often eat tomato soup for the Lycopene effect and it works; especially when work is hectic.   

Even more often, prayer and a glass of water takes care of a headache.


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## MonPetite (Dec 30, 2011)

........................


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## makeupgirl (Dec 30, 2011)

ktykaty said:


> God delegates his power.
> 
> Whether it's a doctor, a healing service, so and so prayer, a priest, a pastor, the Virgin Mary, or ..., they are only vessel of the Holy Spirit. It's the Power of God who heals. All the glory still goes to Him.


 
I understand that and yep that's my point, all glory goes to God and comes from God. I just don't understand and maybe it was the wording in the post about Jesus sending Mary to heal the woman. How did she know? Did Mary reveal herself? Did Jesus tell her "hey look here is my mama"? I mean I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand. And I guess I'm not understanding because I always thought it was by faith in God's regarding his healing power that we're healed, according to his purpose. Even when he doesn't heal at that moment, we're still to have faith that he will and that we are already healed through his stripes. But also that sometimes, someone may be sick or has some type of illness or infirmities for reasons beyond our own understanding; whether it's to be a blessing to someone, whether it's humbling, but whatever the reason, utimately God is going to be glorified because he's the only one that can heal. Everything that is done is according to his time, which includes our healing.

Again, not trying to be difficult or saying that I don't believe.  Just need help in understanding this a little bit more, if I have missed something in my studies.


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

LittleGoldenLamb said:


> I've had hands laid on me in one instance, and it prevented me from going to the hospital. As people prayed over me and I writhed in pain I gasped out a line from a hymn in praise because I thought I was going to die, and wanted to "go out" praising God.
> 
> The second I gasped it out, the issue was immediately resolved.
> 
> ...



No, she did what God moved her to do.    Jesus plainly said that we would lay hands and the sick and they would recover.

To this day, my children and grandbabies rarely get sick and when they do... Ummm, yeah, we break out the oil and pray over one another.

I'll never forget the first time i prayed for my son when he was a child.

He was shivering and couldn't stop.  He was lying on his bed and he told me that his body ached all over.  I felt his head for a temperature and it was quite warm.

I laid hands on my baby, and prayed for his healing and I commanded the devil to take his hands off of my son who is God's property.   

I went to get some soup for my son and when I went back into his room, he was sitting up in his bed as if nothing was ever wrong.   There was no fever and the shaking had stopped.   He said that his body didn't hurt anymore.

We gave the glory to God and praised Him for healing my son.

NOW, had my son's symptoms had not ceased, I would have taken him to the hospital.   That's utilizing God's wisdom and not my humanity.   I would still be in faith, because I always seek God for what action I should take.  During prayer, I'm 'listening' to His wisdom and direction.    

This may seem 'counter-faith', but it's not, it's using God's wisdom.


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 30, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> I can't tell you how many times I've witnessed as well as experienced God's healing in the lives of me, my family, my friends and those whom I've prayed with and for. God gets all of the glory.
> 
> Two years ago, my cousins husband had a cancerous growth on the side of his nose which affected his left eye. After numerous exams, it was determined by the doctors at Johns Hopkins Hospital that his eye would have to be removed to save his life.
> 
> ...


 
At the bolded....this happened to a friend's grandmother. She a had a growth on her leg. They prayed and fasted. While she was taking a bath *IT FELL OFF*!! God is soo good.


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> At the bolded....this happened to a friend's grandmother. She a had a growth on her leg. They prayed and fasted. While she was taking a bath *IT FELL OFF*!! God is soo good.



God is awesome, indeed.   

I call that the 'Jesus 'fig tree' annointing; where 'growths/cysts', etc., dry up like the fig tree when Jesus cursed it and wither and die.


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

ktykaty 

Heureux et béni la nouvelle année  

Ai-je dit ce droit?

Jamais le moins . . . 


Je vous souhaite beaucoup d'amour, la sœur de précieuses

Je t'aime

Shimmie...


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 30, 2011)

I think you have to look at who is receiving the glory. Is God being glorfied as the healer or is the person being glorified. Does their teaching line up with the Word of God? Or do they have a different doctrine? 

Many 'faith healers' that are false find themselves getting the glory as though they are on the same level as God. This is why we have to be careful. Some may have gifts of healing (from God) but be tainted by pride, self seeking, and the devil. 

*“.....to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,”      1 Corinthians 12:9*

Also, the enemy raisies up his false, heretical people to cause people to stray and fall into deception.  

*14* And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 *Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:14-15*

*22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness*!*’ Matthew 7*


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> I think you have to look at who is receiving the glory. Is God being glorfied as the healer or is the person being glorified. Does their teaching line up with the Word of God? Or do they have a different doctrine?
> 
> Many 'faith healers' that are false find themselves getting the glory as though they are on the same level as God. This is why we have to be careful. Some may have gifts of healing (from God) but be tainted by pride, self seeking, and the devil.
> 
> ...



Thank you for posting this, as it gives clarity and understanding to what happened in the case posted upwards regarding the _Mother Mary _who came and healed the woman in her sleep. 

Too often Mary, the mother of Jesus has been given diety when in truth she is a human being whom God was pleased to bring forth the birth of Jesus.    

This is not to mimimize her great 'gift' as being the mother of Jesus, however she is still not to be worshipped as God.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 30, 2011)

Oh, that message for was a fellow catholic who comprehends the fullness of the church and its gifts.  She is certainly not a deity.  When we get to heaven, we're not going to be sitting down and waiting at the table for the angels to bring out the Leviathan meal, we're going to be active until all is done...and probably thereafter.  We work for the kingdom so others will receive salvation as well.  Jesus loved his motherd.  He honored her.  Everything she does is to crush the serpent and lead men to her Son.  She is spoken of through scripture, pre-figured and in the Gospels.  What is her role?  Queen mother of the Great King.  So, whether one believes this as its in scripture is dependent upon their understanding.  Mary, Our Lady, is not G-d and has never been proclaimed by G-d by us.  You don't have to believe that...you don't have to even entertain the idea.  For us, we respect her and honor her, not worship her.

You know, my father, who passed away a year or so beforehand, appeared to us in a car accident, avoiding a collision in what would have taken all our lives.  Is he worshipped as G-d?  No.  But he was sent by Jesus to do this work for his daughter still in this life.  G-d uses whom He will and these relationships are what we refer to as the communion of the saints.  It does not mean that once the soul leaves the body, that it doesn't face the judgement.  So, in my response to Katytv, a fellow catholic, we're touching base concerning those who whose messages are tested and approved regarding the healing gift G-d has given.  Yes, G-d does work the miraculous vis those of us in this life and those beyond.  I didn't comprehend the Virgin Mary until I myself had several encounter with her and she led me to Jesus in person.  That is not Satan.


Disclaimer:  I am not ashamed to be a catholic.  I give catholic responses particularly when there are other catholics in the same thread.  I won't change that as you are not expected to change your own denominational point of theological view.  We're used to being told we're "deceived" but we understand...I understand and am not angry.


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## Guitarhero (Dec 30, 2011)

makeupgirl said:


> Why would Jesus send his mother?  If the woman was healed, it was by God himself but also because she had faith that God will heal her.  It's with Jesus' stripes that we are healed, even when ur infirmities are not healed when we want it to be.



Why would Jesus send you or someone from India or Rhode Island?  Same reasons.    This was just that lady's experience related to what Katytv and I comprehend to be very active healing phenomena concerning the Church at various places like Lourdes where healings are still happening.  But those people go to the doctors as evidence.


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## Rainbow Dash (Dec 30, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> Oh, that message for was a fellow catholic who comprehends the fullness of the church and its gifts. She is certainly not a deity. When we get to heaven, we're not going to be sitting down and waiting at the table for the angels to bring out the Leviathan meal, we're going to be active until all is done...and probably thereafter. We work for the kingdom so others will receive salvation as well. Jesus loved his motherd. He honored her.* Everything she does is to crush the serpent and lead men to her Son. She is spoken of through scripture, pre-figured and in the Gospels. *What is her role? Queen mother of the Great King. So, whether one believes this as its in scripture is dependent upon their understanding. Mary, Our Lady, is not G-d and has never been proclaimed by G-d by us.
> 
> You know, my father, who passed away a year or so beforehand, appeared to us in a car accident, avoiding a collision in what would have taken all our lives. Is he worshipped as G-d? No. But he was sent by Jesus to do this work for his daughter still in this life. G-d uses w
> 
> hom He will and these relationships are what we refer to as the communion of the saints. It does not mean that once the soul leaves the body, that it doesn't face the judgement. So, in my response to Katytv, a fellow catholic, we're touching base concerning those who whose messages are tested and approved regarding the healing gift G-d has given. Yes, G-d does work the miraculous vis those of us in this life and those beyond. I didn't comprehend the Virgin Mary until I myself had several encounter with her and she led me to Jesus in person. That is not Satan.


 

To the bolded. That is coming from Genesis 3:15, the* Seed* is *Christ*. And the *bruised heal* speaks of Christ’s heel that was bruised when his feet were pierced and nailed to the cross. The enemity is that Christ would come and destroy the works of the devil and the bruising of His heal is His death on the Cross. 

Mary was a blessed woman but she needed a Savior. as she declared in Luke 1:47 “. . . *and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior*. . .”Mary recognized that she needed a Savior. We were never instructed to look to Mary. "For there is *one God*, and *there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus*," 2 Timothy 2:15

Also, Mary did not die a virgin. She was able to come together with her husband Joseph after the birth of Christ. She went on to have children with her husband.


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## ktykaty (Dec 30, 2011)

makeupgirl said:


> I understand that and yep that's my point, all glory goes to God and comes from God. I just don't understand and maybe it was the wording in the post about Jesus sending Mary to heal the woman. How did she know? Did Mary reveal herself? Did Jesus tell her "hey look here is my mama"? I mean I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand. And I guess I'm not understanding because *I always thought it was by faith in God's regarding his healing power that we're healed, according to his purpose. *Even when he doesn't heal at that moment, we're still to have faith that he will and that we are already healed through his stripes. But also that sometimes, someone may be sick or has some type of illness or infirmities for reasons beyond our own understanding; whether it's to be a blessing to someone, whether it's humbling, but whatever the reason, utimately God is going to be glorified because he's the only one that can heal. Everything that is done is according to his time, which includes our healing.
> 
> Again, not trying to be difficult or saying that I don't believe.  Just need help in understanding this a little bit more, if I have missed something in my studies.



That's usually true for the believers. but sometimes, the Lord operates miracles or supernatural healing just to prove that He is God. The miracle is a big old unmissable sign that God is real and almighty. It's a way to trigger or strengthen faith.

As far as Mary is concerned, I don't know this particular case. But, most of the times, she reveals herself and she leads you to Jesus. A sure sign to test the spirit and verify if it's really Her or any other saint is that they points clearly to Jesus. Mary is all about Jesus.


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## makeupgirl (Dec 30, 2011)

ktykaty and Guitarhero

Thank you ladies for explaining.  I understand a bit more now.


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## ktykaty (Dec 30, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Thank you for posting this, as it gives clarity and understanding to what happened in the case posted upwards regarding the _Mother Mary _who came and healed the woman in her sleep.
> 
> Too often Mary, the mother of Jesus has been given diety when in truth she is a human being whom God was pleased to bring forth the birth of Jesus.
> 
> This is not to mimimize her great 'gift' as being the mother of Jesus, however she is still not to be worshipped as God.



Shimmie,

Thanks for the kind words.

Mary is not a deity, she is a saint. We Catholics do believe in the communion of the saints differently from the protestant. It's OK. But I cannot let anyone believe that we deify the saints. 
A saint, in heaven or on this earth is basically a vessel of the Lord. A tool that He can use to do His Perfect Will. To be a member of the Body of Christ means being the hands, the feet or the mouth of the Lord.

*"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives  in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of  God, who loved me and gave himself for me.*" Ga 2:20

PS: We do test the spirit to make sure that we deal with a member of the body of Christ and not a counterfeit. 

Have a blessed day.
Bonne et heureuse année 2012.


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

ktykaty said:


> Shimmie,
> 
> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> ...



Thank you for correcting me.   I also apologize for making that assumption.  

AND I'm glad you received my loving greetings in French.    It still blows me away that we are actually communicating across the world.


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> To the bolded. That is coming from Genesis 3:15, the* Seed* is *Christ*. And the *bruised heal* speaks of Christ’s heel that was bruised when his feet were pierced and nailed to the cross. The enemity is that Christ would come and destroy the works of the devil and the bruising of His heal is His death on the Cross.
> 
> Mary was a blessed woman but she needed a Savior. as she declared in Luke 1:47 “. . . *and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior*. . .”Mary recognized that she needed a Savior. We were never instructed to look to Mary. "For there is *one God*, and *there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus*," 2 Timothy 2:15
> 
> *Also, Mary did not die a virgin.* She was able to come together with her husband Joseph after the birth of Christ. She went on to have children with her husband.



This is a very important point, that Mary did not remain a virgin.  She was joined to her husband Joseph.


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## BostonMaria (Dec 30, 2011)

If anyone is interested in attending a faith healing ministry in Mass, please PM me. 

We have the power of Christ inside us to heal ourselves and also to cast out demons, we just have to have faith. I pray over headaches and colds before I grab medicine LOL I've been frustrated at the fact that I haven't been able to conceive a child. I know the power is in me. I just need to have more faith. 


Sent from my fancy iPhone using LHCF


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## Shimmie (Dec 30, 2011)

BostonMaria said:


> If anyone is interested in attending a faith healing ministry in Mass, please PM me.
> 
> We have the power of Christ inside us to heal ourselves and also to cast out demons, we just have to have faith. I pray over headaches and colds before I grab medicine LOL I've been frustrated at the fact that I haven't been able to conceive a child. I know the power is in me. I just need to have more faith.
> 
> ...



Sarah, Rachel, Hannah and Elizabeth . . .

God opened their wombs.


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## Laela (Dec 31, 2011)

Don't want to speak for her, but @ the bolded, I believe that's what BostonMaria is saying... someone who has received the Holy Spirit can lay hands on themselves and pray for themselves and be healed of physical infirmity. No music needed...  

But I will say God dwells/inhabits  in the praises of His People. He is present where He is welcome... 

On that note, when that woman with the issue of blood pushed through a heavy crowd, she literally applied Faith (activated her belief) and was made whole. Now, remember, this woman had spent all her money, going to doctors for help but they couldn't do anything for her. I'm not advocating not going to doctors, who have gift of healing, esp if the Holy Spirit guides us to. But why couldn't those doctors help this woman. Were they just taking her money, knowing they can't do anything for her? Could it be they didn't help her because she had to get to that place on that day where she met Jesus? hmmm..

I believe there are times God allows miracles to let it be clear Who is healer! Like he did with Gideon and his army.... the Medianites had to know it was God they were fighting when He cut Gideon's army to size. Not to prove He is God but to let those giants know it was not the Israelites they were fighting, despite their skillfulness. They were wearing the Armor of God. 

With this woman with the issue of blood, God did the healing but it was her faith that allowed Him to heal.  As intercessors, like you did for your children, we exercise our faith, through prayer. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, vested in us, we have authority to command demons (aka *spiritual bullies*). It is not US the demons see, but the Holy Spirit in us, that causes them to tremble.  So we ought not think highly of ourselves when gifted with the power of the Holy Spirit. It is not us!  On healers,

 Jesus told the disciples in Mark 9:

38 _And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us._

 39 _But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me._

40 _ For he that is not against us is on our part _


Later on in this same chapter, He says:

42 _And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. _

He goes on to instruct believers on how to maintain their own faith, through sacrifice (repentance, or turn away from):

43 _And if your hand puts a stumbling block before you and causes you to sin, cut it off! It is more profitable and wholesome for you to go into life [that is really worthwhile] maimed than with two hands to go to hell (Gehenna), into the fire that cannot be put out.[t]_

    45 _And if your foot is a cause of stumbling and sin to you, cut it off! It is more profitable and wholesome for you to enter into life [that is really worthwhile] crippled than, having two feet, to be cast into hell (Gehenna)._

    47 _And if your eye causes you to stumble and sin, pluck it out! It is more profitable and wholesome for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell (Gehenna),_

    48 _Where their worm [[v]which preys on the inhabitants and is a symbol of the wounds inflicted on the man himself by his sins] does not die, and the fire is not put out.
_
    49 _For everyone shall be salted with fire._

    50 _Salt is good (beneficial), but if salt has lost its saltness, how will you restore [the saltness to] it? Have salt within yourselves, and be at peace and live in harmony with one another._

I say all that to say, ITA with your post.. lol





Shimmie said:


> *Jesus plainly said that we would lay hands and the sick and they would recover.*
> 
> To this day, my children and grandbabies rarely get sick and when they do... Ummm, yeah, we break out the oil and pray over one another.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Dec 31, 2011)

Laela said:


> Don't want to speak for her, but @ the bolded, I believe that's what BostonMaria is saying... someone who has received the Holy Spirit can lay hands on themselves and pray for themselves and be healed of physical infirmity. No music needed...
> 
> But I will say God dwells/inhabits  in the praises of His People. He is present where He is welcome...
> 
> ...




Laela   Rose :Rose:

Thanks Love...

Question:   I don't get the Boston Maria nor the 'music' reference in your first paragraph.    

I'll re-read it later in the morning.  It's after 1:00 a.m. I need to lay back down    Right now, I'm not making / seeing the connection to my post.    

:blowkiss:


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## Guitarhero (Jan 1, 2012)

I guess the distinction should have been made betwee those who claim to be faith healers but were found out to have been false and those who are obedient to the Church/Bible.  He certainly does perform miracles!!!  If you notice, most of those people who have been healed get checked by their physicians.  I didn't want to leave the impression that I believe they do not exist.


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## Guitarhero (Jan 1, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> To the bolded. That is coming from Genesis 3:15, the* Seed* is *Christ*. And the *bruised heal* speaks of Christ’s heel that was bruised when his feet were pierced and nailed to the cross. The enemity is that Christ would come and destroy the works of the devil and the bruising of His heal is His death on the Cross.
> 
> Mary was a blessed woman but she needed a Savior. as she declared in Luke 1:47 “. . . *and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior*. . .”Mary recognized that she needed a Savior. We were never instructed to look to Mary. "For there is *one God*, and *there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus*," 2 Timothy 2:15
> 
> Also, Mary did not die a virgin. She was able to come together with her husband Joseph after the birth of Christ. She went on to have children with her husband.


_
"When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, 'Woman, behold, your son!'. Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother!’" (Jn 19:26-27)_.

We disagree on that one, about her perpetual virginity and dedication of her womb solely to Jesus, as well as the mission Christ gave her as mother of all.  She had no other natural children.  But we're not from the same church.  Please know, Laela, I'm just explaining this so it's not an attempt to force you. I'm so sorry I'm putting everything in this one post..I know it's incredibly long.  But I feel I must explain it.  I realize you do not believe.  You don't have to at all and I respect that.    For us, the significance of the blessed apparition in Mexico and her image...reads many things.  One Bread had a reading recently during Advent which easily condenses it:

_Rv 11:19a; 12:1-6a, 10ab
God's temple in heaven was opened,
 and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple.

*A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun,
 with the moon under her feet,
 and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
 She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.
 Then another sign appeared in the sky;
 it was a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns,
 and on its heads were seven diadems.*
 Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky
 and hurled them down to the earth.
 Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth,
 to devour her child when she gave birth.
 She gave birth to a son, a male child,
 destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.
 Her child was caught up to God and his throne.
 The woman herself fled into the desert
 where she had a place prepared by God.

 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
 "Now have salvation and power come,
 and the Kingdom of our God
 and the authority of his Anointed."_



_Zechariah 2:14-17
View Readings	Judith 13:18-19	Luke 1:39-47
Similar Reflections

THE CONQUERING QUEEN-MOTHER

"Blest are you among women and blest is the Fruit of your womb. But who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" —Luke 1:42-43


The title "Guadalupe" is probably a misunderstanding of the Indian word, "Tecoatlaxope," meaning: "she will crush the serpent of stone." This is a prophetic revelation that Mary is "a great sign...a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (Rv 12:1). Mary leads all Christians in accepting her Son's power to quickly crush Satan (Rm 16:20; Gn 3:15). 

The writer of Song of Songs prophesied and questioned: "Who is this that comes forth like the dawn, as beautiful as the moon, as resplendent as the sun, as awe-inspiring as bannered troops?" (Sg 6:10) Mary is the answer to that mysterious question. Mary is a great sign of victory because she is the mother of Jesus, Who is the Commander-in-Chief of the armies of heaven (Rv 19:14). She is the mother of the One called "The Faithful and True" (Rv 19:11), Whose name is the Word of God (Rv 19:13) and the "King of kings and Lord of lords" (Rv 19:16). She is the conquering queen-mother of the all-conquering King, and she is the adoptive mother of followers of this King, who are more than conquerors in Him (Rm 8:37). 

Believe and conquer! Our Lady of Guadalupe, pray for us._

--------------------------------------------------------

I truly hope I don't cause harm or fear nor worry for anybody.  I just have to explain since the question was brought up.  It's fully scriptural and likewise refers to the body of Christ...but we disagree on those points.


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## Rainbow Dash (Jan 1, 2012)

Guitarhero said:


> _"When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, 'Woman, behold, your son!'. Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother!’" (Jn 19:26-27)_.
> 
> We disagree on that one, about her perpetual virginity and dedication of her womb solely to Jesus, as well as the mission Christ gave her as mother of all. She had no other natural children. But we're not from the same church. Please know, Laela, I'm just explaining this so it's not an attempt to force you. I'm so sorry I'm putting everything in this one post..I know it's incredibly long. But I feel I must explain it. I realize you do not believe. You don't have to at all and I respect that.  For us, the significance of the blessed apparition in Mexico and her image...reads many things. One Bread had a reading recently during Advent which easily condenses it:
> 
> ...


 Guitarhero

I have never heard anyone say that Mary led them to Jesus. *Where is that in scripture?*

*You have to look at the Word and not man-made doctrine. Now lets examine the Word.*

*The Father draws us to Christ. That is to incline the mind to believe. There is no mention of Mary.*

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." John 6:65

But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." John 12:32

*- It is the Seed, which is CHRIST not Mary. It shall bruise thy head and thou shalt bruise His Heel. *

Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and* between thy seed and her seed*; *it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."*


*-Also Mary gave birth to other children.*

"Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and* his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas*?" Matthew 13:55


*She did not die virgin. This is talking about Joseph not 'knowing' her until after the birth of Christ. *

"And knew her not till she had brought *forth her firstborn son*: and he called his name JESUS." Matthew 1:25


*-John 19:26-27- Jesus told his disciples to take his mother and take care of her. Look at verse 27. *

"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!" 27' *Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home]." *
　

- Also, the *Woman in Revelation 12 *is not believed to be Mary but it represents Israel or the Church. While it is true that Mary gave birth to Jesus, it is also true that Jesus, the son of David from the tribe of Judah, came from Israel.
The woman, representing Israel or the Church. The dragon, representing Satan. The man-child, referring to Jesus. Scripturally, this woman clothed with the sun should be identified with Israel, according to Joseph’s dream (Genesis 37:9-11). In that dream, the sun represents Jacob, the moon represents Joseph’s mother Rachel, and the eleven stars are the sons of Israel which bow down to Joseph. In this sign with twelve stars, Joseph is now "among" the other tribes of Israel.
　
　
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