# Hair...The Black Woman's Curse?



## lilamae (Apr 8, 2008)

I was sitting on a cheap sofa in the Ikea store with my legs crossed determining the comfort and quality of my prospective new purchase when I was struck by the length  (waist) and curls on this white girls head. I was like "ooh, I can't wait".. then seconds later, another just-past midback passes by, then a hip bone length and then another waist length!

One by one they passed me by with nice heads of hair I was nearly certain they took for granted. 

After about a minute or two more dreaming of waist length and trying to shake off the " it's -just-not-fair -that-i-have-to-work-so-hard-to-grow-my-hair attitude...I hopped off the sofa and headed to the garage and back to my office as lunch time was ending.

I walked into the break room where 3 sistas were discussing working out. And you know the cliche conflict we always have with regard to working out came up: hair care. The conversation went something like this..

" Girl, I don't know about no hot yoga! Hot yoga will have my hair lookin a hot mess" ( everyone laughs as I stand there with a straight face)

"I know chile, only way I'm doing all of that work is if I'm getting my hair done the next day!"

The conversation continues and I nonchalantly observe. Then one of the olders ladies struck a nerve with her final statement as she left to the room..."*Hair...it's the black womans curse*" she said as she casually walked away.

Fresh memories of the white girls effortlessly boucing their long hair combined with the black womens' break room conversation about their frustation with basic hair maintenance while working out had me feelin like "why do WE have to do so much more??!!" 

I mean I know its has to do with texture and yadi-yadi-ya but sometimes it just gets frustrating and I know I can at least come here to let out my " hair frustration".

When I was in the 5th Grade my mom sent me to a nearly all white school and she told me that I was gonna have to work twice as hard. 

I guess I'll just have to apply that concept to hair as well.


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## Mystic (Apr 9, 2008)

Awwww, I totally understand where you are coming from.  

I do not look at it as a curse though - our hair is just different.  I tend to look at it as a blessing.  Of all the races in world, which other one gives our big afro look????  None!  Everywhere you look, most people have straight hair that hangs down, ours doesn't.  To me that is unique, and I love it.

On the other hand, it's so easy for the others to grow their hair quickly and that's the part that gets frustrating sometimes.




lilamae said:


> I was sitting on a cheap sofa in the Ikea store with my legs crossed determining the comfort and quality of my prospective new purchase when I was struck by the length  (waist) and curls on this white girls head. I was like "ooh, I can't wait".. then seconds later, another just-past midback passes by, then a hip bone length and then another waist length!
> 
> One by one they passed me by with nice heads of hair I was nearly certain they took for granted.
> 
> ...


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

You're so right. i do believe our hair is beautiful and unique. Perhaps it's just the " grass is greener on the other side' that had me trippin for a while. I do remember being in jamaica and all of the white tourist had cornrolls!!!So they too admire what we can do with our hair.

So I'll get off the pity pot and realize that i am blessed with what i have.


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## longhairhopeful (Apr 9, 2008)

Girl...I totally feel your frustration. 

Just reading that took me back to a salon visit where another patron was expressing how desperately she needed a full weave just so she could keep up her workout regimen.erplexed _Why must we do all this just to exercise?_

It seems as though there's always a serious life-decision that has to be made (okay maybe not _life_, but definetly serious)-Swimming, Sports, merely going out on a Rainy day all require deep thought, preparation and many times sacrifce.

 Oh Well...to quote my college freshman history professor- *"it's hard but it's fair, sad but it's true.*


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## Mystic (Apr 9, 2008)

Girl!  Pity pot??????  What are you talking about???  Your hair is beautiful, thick, long, GAWGEOUS!!  You have NO reason at all to be on any pity pot.  But, I totally understand though where you are coming from - the more we get, the more we want and....., we want it NOW!  If you are not wearing your hair out, wear it out more often, and the number of compliments you get will be a testimony to the fact that your hair is just as admirable as the ones you were admiring.......... and you will feel so much better.



lilamae said:


> You're so right. i do believe our hair is beautiful and unique. Perhaps it's just the " grass is greener on the other side' that had me trippin for a while. I do remember being in jamaica and all of the white tourist had cornrolls!!!So they too admire what we can do with our hair.
> 
> * So I'll get off the pity pot and realize that i am blessed with what i have*.


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## Monigirl (Apr 9, 2008)

I feel chatty tonight and wanted to share this 

I know how you feel I have hair frustration too. I wish relaxed black hair care never envolved chemical burn, underprocessing and breakage, reversion, etc...  And I wish I knew more about my natural texture. And was born into a society where natural hair was the norm amongst black women, instead of relaxed looks. Plus I wish wearing it one way or the other was easier but both textures have its pro and cons when it comes to maintance and acheiving longer length in general. (this is just me blah..blah, blahhing)

*As a black woman I feel Hyperpigmentation has been a curse for me more than anything else.* Meaning: Blemishes and marks left on my face from pimples I don't even pop or touch. Personally I have spent more money on skin care then hair care in my life. 




*Lilamae I forgot to say something*...... the white women you saw that day might of been registered with the Extension101 Forum. It is a hair care forum teaching white women how to put in extensions, with tutorials, and different techniques helping them achieve long length in seconds. http://hairextensions101.com/forum

I learned allot from this forum on how to attach weave hair.

Pics of some members from the site and weave installation pics http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d188/saralee26/waginstall1.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d188/saralee26/waginstall1.jpg


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## Mahalialee4 (Apr 9, 2008)

Could you explain the "hyperpigmentation" thing? Is this only in patches or are you referring to the overall color of your skin? thanks for reply.


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## cmesweet (Apr 9, 2008)

First of all,  you never know what a White person, or any person for tat matter  went through to grow their hair. Plus, I see that you are in California, that might not have been their hair in the first place.


Secondly, I think people make a choice to do alot with their hair.  I don't do much with mine. I am a member of a predominantly White hair  board and we use the same hair techniques, except since I have curly/ coily hair, I stick to add or take off things on my regimen.

Thirdly, My mother always said to "not want what other people have, you never know how they got it."  Really take this into mind, you don't know how   hard people have worked. I can honestly say, based on the other forum that I belong to and THIS forum that people with long lengths of hair do not work that hard on it, in fact they don't do much to it.  Take notes!


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## butterfly_wings (Apr 9, 2008)

About the exercise bit, why not just spray your roots with some leave in conditioner and tie it up in a ponytail or bun?


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 9, 2008)

Honey don't fret. White women have just about if not more hair drama than we do. They've been wearing extensions longer and more of them wear them more than we do. They unlike us tend not to put all of our business in the streets and keep it on the down. Most white men STILL don't know what extensions are but every little black boy past the age of 4 does
  We kind of expect to have jacked up hair at one point or another so when it happens we know we need to step up our game and hit the salon or something to get it back on track but can you imagine being a white girl with stringy, wimpy brunette hair when long, lush and blonde is the standard? Or watching commercials with other white girls with bouncing behaving hair and you have to tease and use a can of hairspray to keep your scalp from showing? No honey we have it easy hair wise compared to the majority of white women in the world. They'd kill to have our hair. 
 Now when it comes to Indian women, we're screwed


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 9, 2008)

longhairhopeful said:


> Girl...I totally feel your frustration.
> 
> Just reading that took me back to a salon visit where another patron was expressing how desperately she needed a full weave just so she could keep up her workout regimen.erplexed _Why must we do all this just to exercise?_
> 
> ...



*We really don't have to. You're neglecting one fact, these women are all relaxed straight and might be afraid of a little nap. I just got my touch up and worked out til sweat was pouring down my face. My hair reverted a little, but I just went on about my life like nothing happen. Some women, a touch of nap will send them jumping off a cliff.*


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## BlkOnyx488 (Apr 9, 2008)

I think about this a lot too.  I have a white girl friend who had her waistlength hair butchered buy and overzelus (sp) hairdresser.  Within 6 months her SL length her was back to past bsl.  meanwhile my hair in 6 months looked like well like it did 6 months ago.

I use to think I must of have done something really bad when I was baby to always be "bald headed".  I have never had hair longer than nape length.  And even though I am now doing all this stuff now to hopefully get my hair to grow, I still don't believe it can happen for me.  I keep expecting to wake up and find a mysterious short patch in my hair that just appears out of now where.  If the wind blows my hair seems to break off.  
Ok on to happy talk yah politics!


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## MrsWatson (Apr 9, 2008)

I used to feel this way in college. My roomie and BFF was a white chick who would cut her hair like twice a year. I'd always ask "why'd u cut it" and she would say, "it gets in the way. I tried to roll over in my sleep last night and got caught in my hair". So, she would cut it up to neck length and in 3 months (literally) she'd be damn near APL. I always thought it was unfair that I was sleeping in satin scarves, balancing moisture and protein, dusting my split ends, etc., all while achieving little growth. All she would do is wash a few times a week and she had major growth, no breakage issues or anything. I've learned a lot more about MY hair since then, but i definitely feel where u were coming from. I've had to battle myself on this issue before, as well.


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 9, 2008)

cmesweet said:


> First of all,  you never know what a White person, or any person for tat matter  with through to grow their hair. Plus, I see that you are in California, that might not have been their hair in the first place.
> 
> 
> Secondly, I think people make a choice to do alot with their hair.  I don't do much with mine. I am a member of a predominantly White hair  board and we use the same hair techniques, except since I have curly/ coily hair, I stick to that regimen.
> ...



*On Point! I think black women have the most beautiful hair because so many of us care to take care of it. White women straighten their hair so much that the color often looks brassy and the texture is like straw. My dorm room used to reek of smoke because my two roommates would leave both straightening irons on, high heat, and run the iron through their hair every 5 minutes (literally). Well, damn! How much more straighter can you want your hair? Do you want to look like Gong Li? The only time I've ever seen my boss's hair look nice was yesterday when she came in without taking a bath. She didn't wash her hair so the natural oils were still there and it look a gorgeous blond. I did my white roomie's hair once. She just had her hair died blond, but it was a murky brassy color from being damaged. I mixed a deep conditioner up and schlabed it on her hair, blew it out and straightened it.... she had the color of a newborn Scandinavian and the texture of silk. She never looked so good in her life.


And white women spend so much in extensions and color. You know its bad when you have to dye your coochie hair to match the hair on your head.
Blond is such a commidity and so it straight hair in the white community,  that white women go to  insane lengths just to look like this:





But, remember, many white women cannot look like this because of their mixed ethnic backgrounds or more Medditerrean background. I know many Italians, Latinas, Greeks and Middle Eastern women who dye their hair to death to look more white. They also wear colored contacts.*


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## anon123 (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> Fresh memories of the white girls effortlessly boucing their long hair combined with the black womens' break room conversation about their frustation with basic hair maintenance while working out had me feelin like "why do WE have to do so much more??!!"



I think it's because we want our hair to be like other people's.  If I were totally honest with myself, especially knowing the type of hair I have, I would have to admit that the most natural way to wear my hair would be in a TWA or in locs.  I really think that is how my hair was meant to be worn.  If I had either of those, there would be no fighting my hair.  Perhaps braids would be another way.  I could work out and wash my hair whenever I wanted.  But for whatever reasons, for lots of us that ends up not being what we want.  So we end up fighting our hair and trying to make it do stuff that it doesn't want to do.  As long as we do that, we will have a harder time with our hair than is necessary.  Or at least, if one's hair is like mine, they will have a harder time than is necessary.


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## jamiss (Apr 9, 2008)

It seems like most of the white women I see keep their hair quite short. A lot of them favor short, haus frau looking haircuts because even if they let their hair grow long, it would be thin and stringy looking. They spend as much time in salons as we do, but unlike most black women, they don't mind ugly -ass hair cuts.

Plus they go through great lengths to get dark skin. There is a woman who goes to my gym, every time I see her I am reminded of how much I want one of those brown leather coach bags! She has all but ruined the quality of her skin so she could be brown. So they have a whole set of issues most of us won't have to worry about.


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## SunnyDelight (Apr 9, 2008)

Lilamae - girl don't fret - your hair is beautiful.  I'll bet that while you were sitting on the sofa checking out their hair, those same girls were saying to themselves "Oh my gawd, look at her gorgous brown skin.  Looks like warm caramel.  It's so unfair that mine isn't as beautiful with so little work."


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## LunadeMiel (Apr 9, 2008)

If only you knew what some white women go through to take care of their hair.  I have a white coworker (well 2) who is always telling how jealous they are of my wash and gos.  To her she can never wash and leave her house without blowdrying and flat ironing her hair first.  Trust, it's not as easy and effortless for them as you may think.  I do less to my hair than most white women that I know.


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## Inches411 (Apr 9, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> I think it's because we want our hair to be like other people's. If I were totally honest with myself, especially knowing the type of hair I have, I would have to admit that the most natural way to wear my hair would be in a TWA or in locs. I really think that is how my hair was meant to be worn. If I had either of those, there would be no fighting my hair. Perhaps braids would be another way. I could work out and wash my hair whenever I wanted. But for whatever reasons, for lots of us that ends up not being what we want. So we end up fighting our hair and trying to make it do stuff that it doesn't want to do. As long as we do that, we will have a harder time with our hair than is necessary. Or at least, if one's hair is like mine, they will have a harder time than is necessary.


 

I guess your right but the way i feel is that even others who dont have stick straight hair have the option of straightening without so much effort. fro example 2a 3a type hair so i feel why should we be excluded. And to be honest I have heard plenty naturals talk about the frustrations of doing their hair even in a non manipulative style. So its like its not even about it being straight all the time. Sometimes our natural hair can be a struggle too. Not complaining though.. we have what we have and we work with it. ya know


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## Mrs.Green (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae you hush your mouth!! With your head of hair lord. Half us on this board is gawking at you to reach your lenght the same way you look at them.  Your hair is GAWGEOUS!


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## Dayjoy (Apr 9, 2008)

I agree that we can't say all white women have it easy as far as hair goes.  But in general they seem to have it easier.  There is a little girl in my DD's kindergarten class that has MBL hair.  I know they aren't extensions and a lot of work did not go into her hair.  Her mama ain't taking her to no salon, ever.  DD's friend next door--her mother keeps her hair cut to SL.  She just got a haircut about a month ago and now she's almost back at APL.  Another little one in DD's class just got her hair cut last week.  I didn't recognize her that day.  Now her ends are not as blunt as last week already due to the growth.  These are just the kids I see every day!  *But* we are all given a mixture of blessings and "curses" in this life.  I love my hair (even though I texlax) and love DD's natural hair even more.  It is more difficult to manage though.  It is what it is, and what it is is what God gave us.


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## PeggyFair (Apr 9, 2008)

I always thought that the hair of WW and BW grow at the same rate, just that we have to be extra careful with keeping up the moisture level and reducing breakage especially when it is relaxed. And for me personally, I never wanted to have mid back or waist length hair because of the hassle involved in washing it twice a week, so seeing that on other races never fazed me. I always thought that SL and APL were the ideal on BW, and these lengths can be achieved fairly quickly with the right amount of TLC.


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## Lady Esquire (Apr 9, 2008)

That is one way of looking at it.  But I choose to see our hair as one of the things that makes us so unique on this planet.  It is versatile and it is our crowning glory.  Women who aren't as informed and who subscribe to the black hair myths will mostly likely view our hair as a curse.  But it is far from that.


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## InnerSoul (Apr 9, 2008)

Mystic said:


> Awwww, I totally understand where you are coming from.
> 
> *I do not look at it as a curse though - our hair is just different. I tend to look at it as a blessing. Of all the races in world, which other one gives our big afro look???? None! Everywhere you look, most people have straight hair that hangs down, ours doesn't. To me that is unique, and I love it*.
> 
> On the other hand, it's so easy for the others to grow their hair quickly and that's the part that gets frustrating sometimes.


 
@ the bolded Beautifully Stated  !


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## sunnydaze (Apr 9, 2008)

LadyEsquire said:


> That is one way of looking at it. But I choose to see our hair as one of the things that makes us so unique on this planet. It is versatile and it is our crowning glory. Women who aren't as informed and who subscribe to the black hair myths will mostly likely view our hair as a curse. But it is far from that.


 
Thank you.


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## MeccaMedinah (Apr 9, 2008)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *Some women, a touch of nap will send them jumping off a cliff.*


 
That is the truth!



fabiennd said:


> If only you knew what some white women go through to take care of their hair. I have a white coworker (well 2) who is always telling how jealous they are of my wash and gos. To her she can never wash and leave her house without blowdrying and flat ironing her hair first. Trust, it's not as easy and effortless for them as you may think. I do less to my hair than most white women that I know.


 
This is true as well. One of my best friends (white) has a beautiful, thick head of short hair. She said that it would take time & effort for her to grow her hair out. She said white girls with , pretty heads of healthy hair have to spend lots of time & money on their hair. I work with a woman who has hair so pretty it looks fake, she does a lot to her hair. Some of my other co-workers have been growing their hair out for years and only have MBL hair.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 9, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> Honey do fret. White women have just about if not more hair drama than we do. They've been wearing extensions longer and more of them wear them more than we do. They unlike us tend not to put all of our business in the streets and keep it on the down. Most white men STILL don't know what extensions are but every little black boy past the age of 4 does
> We kind of expect to have jacked up hair at one point or another so when it happens we know we need to step up our game and hit the salon or something to get it back on track but can you imagine being a white girl with stringy, wimpy brunette hair when long, lush and blonde is the standard? Or watching commercials with other white girls with bouncing behaving hair and you have to tease and use a can of hairspray to keep your scalp from showing? No honey we have it easy hair wise compared to the majority of white women in the world. They'd kill to have our hair.
> *Now when it comes to Indian women, we're screwed*


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## PeggyFair (Apr 9, 2008)

LadyEsquire said:


> That is one way of looking at it.  But I choose to see our hair as one of the things that makes us so unique on this planet.  It is versatile and it is our crowning glory.  Women who aren't as informed and who subscribe to the black hair myths will mostly likely view our hair as a curse.  But it is far from that.



Also, even when BW straighten their hair, it will never be as straight as that of a WW, and that in itself is a good thing, cuz when it is that straight it tends to look limp sometimes. Even when we relax our hair, it still has body.


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## anon123 (Apr 9, 2008)

Inches411 said:


> I guess your right but the way i feel is that even others who dont have stick straight hair have the option of straightening without so much effort. fro example 2a 3a type hair so i feel why should we be excluded. And to be honest I have heard plenty naturals talk about the frustrations of doing their hair even in a non manipulative style. So its like its not even about it being straight all the time. Sometimes our natural hair can be a struggle too. Not complaining though.. we have what we have and we work with it. ya know



Oh, I complain all the time about the difficulty in doing my natural hair.  I don't straighten my hair at all but it's still difficult.  The difficulty is not in trying to get my hair straight, the difficulty is in trying to get it to do things that it doesn't want to do.  One of these things would be being straight, but there are others.  Basically, my hair just wants to be a twa or locs.  Maybe in braids all the time.  Only then would I not be fighting my hair.

I just don't look at 4b hair being more difficult to straighten than 3a hair as 4bers being excluded any more than I look at 2a hair not holding twists or braids or tiny tight curls as them being excluded.  Different hair does different things.  If we lived in a world where everyone wanted a short afro made up of 10,000 tiny tight curls, people with straighter hair would have a hard time doing it because they'd be trying to do something their hair wasn't meant to do.  Then straight haired people would be wondering why it's so hard to have something so simple as a bunch of tight kinks, and why even 3bers seem to have an easier time of it then them and they'd be all sad about it.

The only point I'm making is that it's only difficult because we try to make it something it doesn't want to be.  So we can either accept the difficulty, or let it be what it wants to be.


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## Inches411 (Apr 9, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> Oh, I complain all the time about the difficulty in doing my natural hair. I don't straighten my hair at all but it's still difficult. The difficulty is not in trying to get my hair straight, the difficulty is in trying to get it to do things that it doesn't want to do. One of these things would be being straight, but there are others. Basically, my hair just wants to be a twa or locs. Maybe in braids all the time. Only then would I not be fighting my hair.
> 
> I just don't look at 4b hair being more difficult to straighten than 3a hair as 4bers being excluded any more than I look at 2a hair not holding twists or braids or tiny tight curls as them being excluded. Different hair does different things. If we lived in a world where everyone wanted a short afro made up of 10,000 tiny tight curls, people with straighter hair would have a hard time doing it because they'd be trying to do something their hair wasn't meant to do. Then straight haired people would be wondering why it's so hard to have something so simple as a bunch of tight kinks, and why even 3bers seem to have an easier time of it then them and they'd be all sad about it.
> 
> The only point I'm making is that it's only difficult because we try to make it something it doesn't want to be. So we can either accept the difficulty, or let it be what it wants to be.


 

ok thanks for clearing that up.


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## cmesweet (Apr 9, 2008)

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see all the hype about White Women's hair.  I went to school with alot of them, so I sat behind alot of them. Their hair always looked  tangled, or heat damaged.  Nothing great about that


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## gone_fishing (Apr 9, 2008)

We only have to do so much work because we are constantly fighting with the texture that God gave us to make it hang and swing and that's just not how our hair was made. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with trying to achieve the look you want...but I bet our hair is not any more high maintenance than theirs.

This white girl at my office has naturally curly hair and she flat irons it errrrr day after taking a shower. One day she came in with curly hair and I thought she had gotten a perm and it was pretty but she said nope...this was her natural hair but she preferred it straight.

She has a lot of split ends and unhealthy strands when she flat irons.

I know a lot of white women who spend a great deal of time trying to get their hair to look a certain way. They color, perm, highlight, flat iron, curl, roller set, their hair just like we do. It's just that sweat doesn't make their hair turn into a chia pet quite like mine.


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## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

i just think it's sad that anyone would refer to black hair as a "curse."  these thoughts are why we continue to think in terms of good hair/bad hair.

like i said on another board... i can see other women with big boobs that i'm sure they take for granted and not feel cursed that i have small boobs.  my boobs will always be naturally small in proportion to my body unless i do something un-natural to them so they look bigger.


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## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

adequate said:


> We only have to do so much work because we are constantly fighting with the texture that God gave us to make it hang and swing and that's just not how our hair was made. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with trying to achieve the look you want...but I bet our hair is not any more high maintenance than theirs.
> 
> This white girl at my office has naturally curly hair and she flat irons it errrrr day after taking a shower. One day she came in with curly hair and I thought she had gotten a perm and it was pretty but she said nope...this was her natural hair but she preferred it straight.
> 
> ...


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## Inches411 (Apr 9, 2008)

Everyone points are valid and make alot of sense. I would not trade my hair for somone elses anyday but sometimes i do wish it would just grow faster.. thats about it.


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## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

I don't think of it as a curse to reiterate what's pretty much already been said it's the way you approach what you've got - Your hair is Gorgeous!! BTW.

I would rather deal with my hair dilemmas as opposed to skin cancer from virtually burning my *** voluntarily for a tan erplexed-  I love my complexion and so do they.  They love our braids and booties too .  I see more little white girls with braids in their hair now than ever before ( Bo Derek style).  So they envy plenty of things about us as well.  I think the lord knew what he was doing when he dealt us our hands.  

Hair is the only thing they *think* they have over us but we all know different or their men wouldn't be breaking their necks every time a sister walks by em.

Black women can be stacked with Halle Berry short hair, (from latte to licorice complexion) and still pull a man of any race *without* trying.  We got *natural* body!!  Ha! Ha!  Beat that blondie - I love it.


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## Platinum (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I don't think of it as a curse to reiterate what's pretty much already been said it's the way you approach what you've got - Your hair is Gorgeous!! BTW.
> 
> I would rather deal with my hair dilemmas as opposed to skin cancer from virtually burning my *** voluntarily for a tan erplexed- I love my complexion and so do they. They love our braids and booties too . I see more little white girls with braids in their hair now than ever before ( Bo Derek style). So they envy plenty of things about us as well. I think the lord knew what he was doing when he dealt us our hands.
> 
> ...


 
I totally agree!When I was a little girl, I wanted long hair like the white girls.(*length not texture*).  As I got older, I thought that if I straighten it, it would grow-foolish, I know. But, if I had not spent so many years damaging my hair on the quest for long hair, it would probably be MB or WL by now. Anyway, Trini_Rican, I agree with you. I work in a male-dominated field and it's good to know that I'm being envied by the white or latina for my beautiful brown skin, my full lips, and my budunkadunk. I even hear a lot white men talk about how they love black women or many even have a black woman. A few years ago, I was at a Driver Appreciation BBQ at my company. I fixed my plate, grabbed a soda, then sat down. I heard the comment from another table "I'm not worried about it. I'll just stay fat and happy". I turned around to see who said it. That's right! *Barbie said it!* (She wasn't anywhere near fat) I replied, "do like everyone else. Don't hate, just appreciate!" She got mad and took her plate inside the building. I found out later that she made the comment after some of the guys (mostly white) at her table said that I looked nice.


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> Oh, I complain all the time about the difficulty in doing my natural hair.  I don't straighten my hair at all but it's still difficult.  The difficulty is not in trying to get my hair straight, the difficulty is in trying to get it to do things that it doesn't want to do.  One of these things would be being straight, but there are others.  *Basically, my hair just wants to be a twa or locs.*  Maybe in braids all the time.  Only then would I not be fighting my hair.
> 
> The only point I'm making is that it's only difficult because we try to make it something it doesn't want to be.  So we can either accept the difficulty, or let it be what it wants to be.



I agree with the bolded. That's the only thing that would be easier and really natural for my hair. But I don't like those styles on me. So...

I don't see our hair as a curse. I think it is unique and I love its versatility that allows us to style it in so many ways. 

But I will not deny the fact that it is harder for our hair to grow long on its own.  It takes more work. Come on, so many of us HAVE to wear protective styles where they hide their ends, HAVE to keep ends moisturized, HAVE to sleep with a kerchief in order to retain growth.  I don't have any white friends who do all that. I see White and Asian girls all the time with hair loose and brushing against their wool tops everyday, they don't sleep with bonnets, they don't keep their ends moisturized, and their hair retains growth.   BSL is not a cause for celebration for them.  but it is for us.  Some of them blow dry their hair everyday, and they still have hair to play with. If I did that, I would be bald or struggling at ear length hair.  

I still love my hair though. It's like this rebellious child with a personality of its own.


----------



## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 9, 2008)

cmesweet said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I don't see all the hype about White Women's hair.  I went to school with alot of them, so I sat behind alot of them. Their hair always looked  tangled, or heat damaged.  Nothing great about that



*Not a damn thing. erplexed Funny how we can learn all this stuff about hair and STILL believe the okie doke. Makes me wonder if any of the techniques given on this board really work or are they just play-play time.*


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## mnemosyne (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> i just think it's sad that anyone would refer to black hair as a "curse."  these thoughts are why we continue to think in terms of good hair/bad hair.
> 
> like i said on another board... i can see other women with big boobs that i'm sure they take for granted and not feel cursed that i have small boobs.  my boobs will always be naturally small in proportion to my body unless i do something un-natural to them so they look bigger.



You can't take for granted the things that gave you back aches as a teen and become floorbound faster than any perky person's would! Before the dawn of tanks with shelf bras in (which still barely work most of the time) I'd just wish I could go without a bra in the summer with camis and tanks. 

I don't say our hair is a curse, I just wish it wasn't so difficult. Like... So many women wear their hair down with little to no consequence and I've almost become neurotic about making sure my hair's off anything. 

Sometimes it is a case of wanting what you don't have. I'd love to have thicker hair or a looser natural curl pattern, but I handle what I'm given. 

How many vitamins do some take just for hair growth? It's not just us. There was a thread here about different long hair updos and one of the moderators of that board had her whole regimen and it included MANY of the things people here do already (oils and vitamins). It's just that her hair was classic length instead of struggling to reach bsb like mine.


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

mnemosyne said:


> You can't take for granted the things that gave you back aches as a teen and become floorbound faster than any perky person's would! Before the dawn of tanks with shelf bras in (which still barely work most of the time) I'd just wish I could go without a bra in the summer with camis and tanks.
> 
> I don't say our hair is a curse, I just wish it wasn't so difficult. Like... *So many women wear their hair down with little to no consequence and I've almost become neurotic about making sure my hair's off anything. *
> 
> ...



Yes at the bolded.   On the white-dominated long hair care forums, the *average* hair length is usually past BSL.  That alone should tell us something in terms of the difficulty for our hair to retain growth.


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## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

Platinum said:


> I totally agree!When I was a little girl, I wanted long hair like the white girls.(*length not texture*). As I got older, I thought that if I straighten it, it would grow-foolish, I know. But, if I had not spent so many years damaging my hair on the quest for long hair, it would probably be MB or WL by now. Anyway, Trini_Rican, I agree with you. I work in a male-dominated field and it's good to know that I'm being envied by the white or latina for my beautiful brown skin, my full lips, and my budunkadunk. I even hear a lot white men talk about how they love black women or many even have a black woman. A few years ago, I was at a Driver Appreciation BBQ at my company. I fixed my plate, grabbed a soda, then sat down. I heard the comment from another table "I'm not worried about it. I'll just stay fat and happy". I turned around to see who said it. That's right! *Barbie said it!* (She wasn't anywhere near fat) I replied, "do like everyone else. Don't hate, just appreciate!" She got mad and took her plate inside the building. I found out later that *she made the comment after some of the guys (mostly white) at her table said that I looked nice.*


 
You killed her  Happens every day of the week - all across the country.


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## RegaLady (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I don't think of it as a curse to reiterate what's pretty much already been said it's the way you approach what you've got - Your hair is Gorgeous!! BTW.
> 
> I would rather deal with my hair dilemmas as opposed to skin cancer from virtually burning my *** voluntarily for a tan erplexed-  I love my complexion and so do they.  They love our braids and booties too .  I see more little white girls with braids in their hair now than ever before ( Bo Derek style).  So they envy plenty of things about us as well.  I think the lord knew what he was doing when he dealt us our hands.
> 
> ...



Amen to that!  I think that if we just accepted that our hair is the way it is, we would have to problems.  Society has put up limits that even white girls can't even attain, and they expect everyone to follow suit.  And that leaves us burning and yanking our hair out.  And it doesn't help that black men don't encourage us more often to like our hair.  White women have struggles with their hair, they just don't say it.  
    I remember going to an interview a while back, and I wore a wavy wig,  the hole time the interviewer (she was Italian)kept touching her hair.  When the interview was over, she said, "I just want to say that your curls are so pretty, I have always wanted rich curls like that."  I said, "Thank you, I worked hard for these." I didn't say it was a wig.    Her hair look pretty burnt out.  She had struggles like any woman who struggled with their physical identity.


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## aurora3140 (Apr 9, 2008)

Even as a relaxed head, I greatly appreciate the versatility of my hair.  Relaxed hair still has enough body and texture to hold styles that would be more difficult for ww to achieve.  

My housemates at school always compliment my hair styles and are amazed at how easily I can achieve them.  I walk around at night in braids and the next morning, I'll have pretty waves.  One night, I'll bantu knot my hair and the next day I'll have full, bouncy curls pulled back in a banana clip.  This confounds them and I love it!


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

Mrs.Green said:


> lilamae you hush your mouth!! With your head of hair lord. Half us on this board is gawking at you to reach your lenght the same way you look at them. Your hair is GAWGEOUS!


 
Thank you so much girl. that was really sweet. I just have been a little frustrated and perhaps impatient too but i appreciate the support


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## cmesweet (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> I agree with the bolded. That's the only thing that would be easier and really natural for my hair. But I don't like those styles on me. So...
> 
> I don't see our hair as a curse. I think it is unique and I love its versatility that allows us to style it in so many ways.
> 
> ...


 
Maybe you need some more White friends. Unless you live with them, you really don't know what they are doing with their hair.  There are alot of White women who wear bonnets to bed. Even on the predominanently White hair forum, they have "wear your hair up"= protective style challenges.  Also, there are A LOT of AA women on THIS site and Nappturality that do not wear protective styles and have alot of hair. 

It really isn't that hard, unless you are trying to achieve a look that your hair does not typically do. White women do the same thing, all of their hair is NOT straight. 

Furthermore, when I go on the other forum that I visit regularly BSL hair length is a CELEBRATION for many members on there.

Unstead of ASSuming and generalizing about a whole population because one knows 5 people of that population, I suggest you   (anyone reading this) check out the other forum and do some research. Don't believe the hype until you have studied and analyzed.


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## HappyHairDreams (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> I was sitting on a cheap sofa in the Ikea store with my legs crossed determining the comfort and quality of my prospective new purchase when I was struck by the length (waist) and curls on this white girls head. I was like "ooh, I can't wait".. then seconds later, another just-past midback passes by, then a hip bone length and then another waist length!
> 
> One by one they passed me by with nice heads of hair I was nearly certain they took for granted.
> 
> ...


 

I understand your frustration. It does seem like we have to work twice as hard. But I think there are also non-Black women out there with hair issues as well; "My hair is too greasy, too limp, not straight, too frizzy etc, etc" - that's why they have a million hair products just like we do.

Yes, our hair issues are unique, but I think that the lack of information and research about Black hair care makes things harder for us than for them - it's not a matter of nature at all.  Plus I think some of the issues we have, we also bring on ourselves; when I was younger my hair was a lot more resilient - it would grow and grow dispite the horrible treatment my mother and I put it through but now the 23 years of abuse is showing. That's my fault and that is the case with many Black women - and we'd be in the same boat after such abuse regardless of whether we were black, white or purple.
I think and hope that as we learn to care for our hair better and reverse the negative effects, things will get easier.

BTW, your hair is lovely.


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## Dayjoy (Apr 9, 2008)

I think everyone's hair, black, white, or other will thrive as long as it is treated well and not fought against.  If your hair is stick straight and you let it be, it will be fine.  But if you perm it or hot curl it every day it will dry and break.  On the other hand if your hair is curly or coily and you let it be, it will be fine.  But if you relax it or flat iron it every day it will dry and break.  (I'm not opposed to relaxers, I have one--I'm just being extreme here.)  The problem is going against what you have.  The other problem (for us) is that we live in a society  that celebrates straighter hair while it tells us that curlier/coilier hair needs to be altered.


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 9, 2008)

I do know how you feel though, I just went through my "Why our hair"  phase recently..Our hair does grow at the same rate as everyone else's. My hair grows very slowly while my youngest daughters hair grows quickly. My oldest's hair grows at a normal rate but also way faster than mine. They will cut their hair in a minute. Kidserplexed Some White girls have slow growing hair too and they go through their own pity parties. It just appears that their hair is better because wavy and straight hair (looser textures) have more shine( in black girls too) than curly and kinky which tends to look dull. I think curly and kinky hair (in white girls too) is more fragile. I believe it has something to do with the inability of our hairs natural sebum to cover the entire length of our strands therefore leaving it unprotected and more delicate. When looser textured folks brush their hair the sebum is moved down the strand, that's much harder to do with curly and kinky textures. Now if someone can come up with a product to stimulate natural sebum and a technique to get it to the ends of our strands we'd be in business. 
  I also believe it has to do with our styling products. We don't have billions of dollars in research going toward our hair products as they do. It seems to me that the makers of black hair care products, major companies, make our products intentionally drying and damaging so we have to buy even more products to try to correct the problem and most of those products are damaging too. They know black folks are consumers and that black women are going to make sure or hair looks good no matter what it takes or costs. We've been bamboozled


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## Hair Iam (Apr 9, 2008)

.
I think of our hair struggles are equivalent to "whites trying to get a tan, they would risk cancer from the sun, paying crazy fees for tanning beds, seeking the ultimate natural tan, going on vacations to lay under the hot sun...what I'm trying to say is ...we all have our challenges. I was feeling exactly how you are , then I started to ask the Lord , and to ask Him how to I take care of the quatre size dry patch in the back on my head that keeps breaking and feels like the desert sand? He has yet to answer, but He has impressed on me to apply TLC


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

cmesweet said:


> *Maybe you need some more White friends.* Unless you live with them, you really don't know what they are doing with their hair.  There are alot of White women who wear bonnets to bed. Even on the predominanently White hair forum, they have "wear your hair up"= protective style challenges.  Also, there are A LOT of AA women on THIS site and Nappturality that do not wear protective styles and have alot of hair.
> 
> It really isn't that hard, unless you are trying to achieve a look that your hair does not typically do. White women do the same thing, all of their hair is NOT straight.
> 
> ...



Uh huh. I have too many white friends.    I've had tons of white roommates, I've had retreats with white women, been in spas and sleepover with my white girlfriends. I had a chance to observe their haircare firsthand.

Most white women do NOT frequent long hair care boards, and are still able to grow hair that is significantly longer than ours.  The average length for white and asian hair is longer than the average length for black hair. That's an unarguable fact. 

I was in Nappturality for many years, and not counting locs, MOST IF NOT ALL the women that grow long hair DO wear protective styles in the form of twists, cornrows, buns, plaits, what have you.  I have yet to meet one that grew long hair by letting it loose into an afro everyday. Nope. Not seen it. 

Recognizing that a certain type of hair retains hair easier is not an admission that they are superior or better. I do not feel inferior to white or asian women based on hair, so I don't have to take offense at the suggestion that their hair is easier to grow.


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## Dayjoy (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Uh huh. I have too many white friends.    I've had tons of white roommates, I've had retreats with white women, been in spas and sleepover with my white girlfriends. I had a chance to observe their haircare firsthand.
> 
> Most white women do NOT frequent long hair care boards, and are still able to grow hair that is significantly longer than ours.  The average length for white and asian hair is longer than the average length for black hair. That's an unarguable fact.
> 
> ...


TOTAL COSIGN!!


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## mnemosyne (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> *Uh huh. I have too many white friends.    I've had tons of white roommates, I've had retreats with white women, been in spas and sleepover with my white girlfriends. I had a chance to observe their haircare firsthand.*
> 
> Most white women do NOT frequent long hair care boards, and are still able to grow hair that is significantly longer than ours.  The average length for white and asian hair is longer than the average length for black hair. That's an unarguable fact.
> 
> ...


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## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

redliz81 said:


> Amen to that! I think that if we just accepted that our hair is the way it is, we would have to problems. Society has put up limits that even white girls can't even attain, and they expect everyone to follow suit. And that leaves us burning and yanking our hair out. And *it doesn't help that black men don't encourage us more often to like our hair. *White women have struggles with their hair, they just don't say it.
> I remember going to an interview a while back, and I wore a wavy wig, the hole time the interviewer (she was Italian)kept touching her hair. When the interview was over, she said, "I just want to say that your curls are so pretty, I have always wanted rich curls like that." I said, "Thank you, I worked hard for these." I didn't say it was a wig. Her hair look pretty burnt out. She had struggles like any woman who struggled with their physical identity.


te 

I think that's the main problem - Our men.  If they could just get past hair they could love us.  They're so caught up that it's given us women a complex.  Is it long enough, straight enough.  They (just like white men) adore our bodies and strength as women but let Becky's skinny *** pass by swinging her blonde hair and he's gonna look.  It's ridiculous because half the time it's extentions, when it's a black man with his white girl he's breaking his neck to check our body though Whatever.


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## tocktick (Apr 9, 2008)

generally speaking, it's easier for people of other races to *retain *length because their hair is proven to be stronger. our hair is apparently the weakest hair type. add to that the fact that many styling practices we've been employing ("we" in the sense of  black women as a whole) were designed for white people. plus, chemicals, low quality products, heat etc all contribute to making sure many of us cannot grow long hair. there has been a lot of substandard information out there concerning black hair; it seems the quality information is harder to come by. lhcf and other sources are places where black women can find good information and the best ways to deal with their hair. however, not all black women have found the right information.

our hair is not a "curse". i do not compare my hair to that of other races and think about what theirs can do that mine cannot (btw, i have no problems with my hair when exercising, that problem is not universal to black women). it would just be a way for me to think my hair inferior, when it simply is not. i don't think my hair is more difficult that white people's; it's just different.

this site, and others, have examples of black women growing long healthy hair. with the right information and hair care practices, long hair is not unattainable to us.


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## JustKiya (Apr 9, 2008)

cmesweet said:


> Maybe you need some more White friends. Unless you live with them, you really don't know what they are doing with their hair.  There are alot of White women who wear bonnets to bed. Even on the predominanently White hair forum, they have "wear your hair up"= protective style challenges.  Also, there are A LOT of AA women on THIS site and Nappturality that do not wear protective styles and have alot of hair.
> 
> It really isn't that hard, unless you are trying to achieve a look that your hair does not typically do. White women do the same thing, all of their hair is NOT straight.
> 
> ...



Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for saying this - just the whole, danngone POST. Tis amazing how when assumptions go from one direction to the other, it's all good, but it's fighting words in the other direction. 

 *sigh* The fact that black women can even fix their mouth to say that their hair is a _*CURSE*_ is..... is....... ohmygods, I don't even have words for the horror/shock/frustration/sadness/anger that makes me, as a black woman feel. No wonder we have so many 'issues' with our hair, when we are passing down this sort of foolishness to our children. Our hair is _*JUST*_ as much of a curse as our skin is, and until we truly BELIEVE that - well. You'll keep seeing 4 y/o's with weaves. 

*sucks teeth*


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## AvaSpeaks (Apr 9, 2008)

Inches411 said:


> Everyone points are valid and make alot of sense. I would not trade my hair for somone elses anyday but sometimes i do wish it would just grow faster.. thats about it.


 
Exactly! That's where I think people are missing the OP's point. 

It just _*seems*_ like their hair grows much quicker and longer than our hair. Regardless of how their long hair may look, whether it's bad, tangled, or matted; they could cut it off if it's damaged and then 6 months later, they are almost SL or longer!

That's not the case with most of us, and I think that's what still frustrates some of our sistas, in regards to hair care. At least from what I see on this board. 

And the other argument about how some of us are fighting against what our hair should do is not exactly true either. Because if that was the case, then we should have these huge gigantic afros hanging on our heads  or our hair being super long, if it's in braids. But most of us don't! I mean with the exception of dreads, I see plenty of sistas that have natural hair and their hair still is around the same length, regardless of shrinkage.

And no, we may not know what White or other Non-Black people are doing in their homes, but we know they ain't taking the vits and doing all the MTG and Indian hair products on their hair. I mean you got 4 year olds with their hair already down their backs. 

Those Flintstone vitamins ain't doing all that! Their good but not that good


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

AvaSpeaks said:


> Exactly! That's where I think people are missing the OP's point.
> 
> It just _*seems*_ like their hair grows much quicker and longer than our hair. Regardless of how their long hair may look, whether it's bad, tangled, or matted; they could cut it off if it's damaged and then 6 months later, they are almost SL or longer!
> 
> ...


Hush!!!  

Don't you know, to even admit that we have to do special things and go to greater length to retain hair than our white and asian counterparts means you're full of self-hate?


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Uh huh. I have too many white friends.  I've had tons of white roommates, I've had retreats with white women, been in spas and sleepover with my white girlfriends. I had a chance to observe their haircare firsthand.
> 
> Most white women do NOT frequent long hair care boards, and are still able to grow hair that is significantly longer than ours. The average length for white and asian hair is longer than the average length for black hair. That's an unarguable fact.
> 
> ...


 
co-signing as well


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

*Note to self:* ( and I guess to others) no matter who disagrees with my frustration, my feelings are valid and I will not go back and forth with others who disagree and let this thread turn unnecessarily ugly

Everybody is entitled to express there opinion regardless if they agree with me or not...

PS: *No I do not think our hair is a curse I was just repeating what the lady at my office said.*


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## mnemosyne (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Hush!!!
> 
> Don't you know, to even admit that we have to do special things and go to greater length to retain hair than our white and asian counterparts means you're full of self-hate?


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## Monigirl (Apr 9, 2008)

Mahalialee4 said:


> Could you explain the "hyperpigmentation" thing? Is this only in patches or are you referring to the overall color of your skin? thanks for reply.


 
Just in my life I have experienced more delimas with my skin than my hair (acne, cyst, blemishes). *I feel hair makes a woman beautiful weither it be long, short, or medium but a womans skin is what trully makes her beautiful.* Personnaly I get more jealous when I meet or see women with youthful beautiful blemishes free skin tone... may I add without wearing makeup. That is why I am planing to a do a master cleanse or detox soon in the efforts to improve my skin complexion.

OT: 
Hyperpigmentation is something all races deal with espically women of color and women in my family. I personally have minor hyperpigmentation on my face in a few areas. Hyperpigmentation is when your skin heals darker than the original shade after you get a scar or pimple or experience trama. In a nutshel is it a blemish or mark that heals darker than your original skin tone.  I will be going to school soon to study skin and beauty procedures to help myself and other achieve flawless youthful complexions.

No I am not refering to the overall color of my skin....I love my beautiful brown skin color that God has given me and would not want any other. I just want clear skin.  

Here are some pics of black women dealing with hyperpigmentation and got chemical peel treatments.   







Before:






After:
After
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​


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## nodisrespect (Apr 9, 2008)

Well, at the risk of being labeled a black Nazi (or whatever) or self hating (or whatever) I'd like to throw my two pennies into this here pot:

Both sides of the issue are valid. It is just an undebatable fact that black people, with curlier hair that is thus more fragile, have to work harder to retain their hair. I don't see how one is wrong for being upset or frustrated for having to work twice as hard to get something that comes effortlessly for others. I wonder if anyone who is of the opinion that this is a weak, self hating, or invalid argument feels the same about about black people who  believe America is still racist and blacks still have to struggle twice as hard as whites for the same jobs, same education, same rights?

Yet on the other hand, when DOES the frustration become a self-hindrance? I read the part about the exercising. Personally, I am in the gym all the time and the only thing I think about my hair is if it's coming out of the ponytail or how dry it will be because of the sweat. This is something that I really don't like about the whole difference-in-hair argument because is showing the world your hair in its natural state such a horrific scenario that you are going to avoid exercise? Like, I'm black, and when I sweat, my hair gets frizzy and big and NAPPY (OOH THE N WORD), so what? Who cares? That's what it naturally looks like, that's what people should expect for it to look like when it gets wet, both black people and white people, so why is something this fundamental and simple such a hindrance to something so beneficial? I really don't like this because it (the argument itself) feels like to me people are so afraid of anyone seeing them without their hair Euro-straight that they can't participate in anything that would betray that illusion.

I mean, I get mad that it seems to take a million magic lotions and potions for me to tame my hair. But at the same time I realize that as a black person, my hair is never going to be sleek straight, and anyone seeing me with my hair NAPPY is seeing me for what I am, and if they take issue with that, especially as a fellow black person, they are the one with the problem. Black people seem quicker than anyone else to look at you funny if you show even the slightest hint of curl, unless you are somewhat Afrocentric and then they will take it as some sort of statement of defiance. I eventually had to come around to this way of thinking, because it IS ingrained in us and in our culture. It took a few months into learning how to care for my hair that well, it's going to HAVE to look "not-straight." It's NOT going to be able to be combed and styled all the time. Once I realized how much more my hair is going to flourish from not trying to force styles on it that it can't handle, the idea of wearing my hair straight all the time started to seem ridiculous, and I was able to not care what anyone would think if I wore my hair less sleek and less styled than people expect of me. I am not a Nappy Nazi by far (and I would go so far as to say I do not advocate their way of thinking at all) but I do think there is a lot of latent resentment for "nappy" hair that we all need to get over. I DO NOT MEAN THAT PEOPLE WITH RELAXERS ARE SELF HATING.


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 9, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Well, at the risk of being labeled a black Nazi (or whatever) or self hating (or whatever) I'd like to throw my two pennies into this here pot:
> 
> Both sides of the issue are valid. It is just an undebatable fact that black people, with curlier hair that is thus more fragile, have to work harder to retain their hair. I don't see how one is wrong for being upset or frustrated for having to work twice as hard to get something that comes effortlessly for others. I wonder if anyone who is of the opinion that this is a weak, self hating, or invalid argument feels the same about about black people who believe America is still racist and blacks still have to struggle twice as hard as whites for the same jobs, same education, same rights?
> 
> ...


 
Amen, Amen,Amen,AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> *Note to self:* ( and I guess to others) no matter who disagrees with my frustration, my feelings are valid and I will not go back and forth with others who disagree and let this thread turn unnecessarily ugly
> 
> Everybody is entitled to express there opinion regardless if they agree with me or not...
> 
> PS: *No I do not think our hair is a curse I was just repeating what the lady at my office said.*


 
*Note to you:* (and I guess to others) You, Lilamae, feel how you feel, how you feel, and that's that!!! NOBODY has the right to rag on you for how you feel. I don't care what anybody says EVERYBODY has had atleast one bad hair day. No one has awakened every single day of their lives loving everything about them. So some of us looove our hair and are proud, good congratulations but today Lilamae's not feeling it. Dang, you'd thought she was sacrificing virgins or something. Americans of all races have gotten into this bad habit of believing, "I got the right to say...." And no everyone's opinion does not need to be heard by everyone regardless of what Oprah says!!!!! 
Please continue, thank you.


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## MizAvalon (Apr 9, 2008)

I can't wait to read this thread. Sounds like there is a lot of good dialogue.


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## Piscesgirl718 (Apr 9, 2008)

cmesweet said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I don't see all the hype about White Women's hair.  I went to school with alot of them, so I sat behind alot of them. Their hair always looked  tangled, or heat damaged.  Nothing great about that



Cosigning on this. Today in class, I was sitting behind this white girl and I was looking at her hair. It looked dull, tangled, and even more dry than my hair. I couldn't believe how dry it was. I guess that's a result of using a flat iron and blow drying too often.


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## nodisrespect (Apr 9, 2008)

Just offering more opinions, I see far more white women with pretty, shiny, well kept hair than I do those with tore up hair. Like a 80/20 split in my experience. Of course it probably has a lot to do with each individual white girl's personal hygenic upkeep than like... white girls in general.


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> *Yet on the other hand, when DOES the frustration become a self-hindrance?* I read the part about the exercising. Personally, I am in the gym all the time and the only thing I think about my hair is if it's coming out of the ponytail or how dry it will be because of the sweat. This is something that I really don't like about the whole difference-in-hair argument because is showing the world your hair in its natural state such a horrific scenario that you are going to avoid exercise? Like, I'm black, and when I sweat, my hair gets frizzy and big and NAPPY (OOH THE N WORD), so what? Who cares? That's what it naturally looks like, that's what people should expect for it to look like when it gets wet, both black people and white people, so why is something this fundamental and simple such a hindrance to something so beneficial? I really don't like this because it (the argument itself) feels like to me people are so afraid of anyone seeing them without their hair Euro-straight that they can't participate in anything that would betray that illusion.



I agree with you that the frustration can become a self-hindrance. Often times, frustrated women just give up on caring for their hair and just slap a wig or weave in order to move on with their lives.  Yes, for many of these women, their hair feels like a curse, especially if they have not been exposed to correct hair practices and are not aware of what protective styles can do for our hair. That doesn't make them bad people. Thank God we have sites such as these to educate black women on finding ways to handle our unique hair, whether in its natural or relaxed or texlaxed stage.


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> I agree with you that the frustration can become a self-hindrance. Often times, frustrated women just give up on caring for their hair and just slap a wig or weave and move on with their lives. Yes, for many of these women, their hair feels like a curse, especially if they have not been exposed to correct hair practice. That doesn't make them bad people. *Thank God we have sites such as these to educate black women on finding ways to handle our unique hair, whether in its natural or relaxed or texlaxed stage*.


 
Yes that's is exactly what I was thinking. I've been wanted waist lensth hair since I was in grade school. I'm 30 now and without this forum I have no idea how i would have ever found a way. I am certain I'll be there in the next couple of years.


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 9, 2008)

AvaSpeaks said:


> And the other argument about how some of us are fighting against what our hair should do is not exactly true either. Because if that was the case, then we should have these huge gigantic afros hanging on our heads
> 
> And no, we may not know what White or other Non-Black people are doing in their homes, but we know they ain't taking the vits and doing all the MTG and Indian hair products on their hair. I mean you got 4 year olds with their hair already down their backs.
> 
> Those Flintstone vitamins ain't doing all that! Their good but not that good



*Actually, white women are more healthy than average black women because of their diets. Proven fact. And they have better nutrition and take more vitamins than the average black woman does. Which will explain the hair growth. Usually white woman with terrible diets do not have the best looking natural hair or skin.*


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## WhipEffectz1 (Apr 9, 2008)

Look here, I'll tell you this. I absolutely hate my hair when it tangles around one another and sheds a lot(I be calling it more than a curse at some points) but I absolutely love my hair when its being nice to me and not acting like a *****'s worse curse.   Every woman not just black women, hate their hair from time to time because its the nature of the beast to try and find something wrong with us  even if there isn't anything. Just hang around the others long enough to find out!


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## cocoberry10 (Apr 9, 2008)

I'm still reading through this thread. Ironically, there was a very similar thread started about a year ago called "Was Our Hair Meant to be this difficult" (I searched for it and found it). I'm linking it here.

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=114263

I don't think our hair is a "curse" and there's nothing wrong with it. We have been poisoned to think it's "bad" and "cursed," and instead of these haircare manufacturer's genuinely finding "solutions" for OUR hair problems (like they have for white women, etc.), they've given us options that are damaging and destructive (relaxers, flat irons, hot combs). None of these things is necessarily terrible, if you know how to care for your hair.

However, it's my personal theory that there ARE AMAZING solutions out there for our hair problems that would allow us greater styling options without doing drastic things to our hair that could harm it.

Now, if the focus was on that instead of making us feel bad about our hair, I don't even think these types of discussions would be necessary.

For example, I think Black hair tends to have the greatest versatility, but things like dryness lead to breakage and tangling/knotting. If the haircare people actually sought things that could help prevent this, we would love wearing afros on Monday, flatironed looks on Thursday, and curly looks on Sunday (get what I mean?). Instead, as said above, there are people who literally spend thousands on weaves, wigs, relaxers, hairdressers, braids...basically things to "cover" their hair instead of actually caring for it.

Now, I know on this board, people use weaves/wigs/etc. to grow their hair. But we as members of this board are armed with knowledge.......and that's what's missing in the majority of the Black hair care industry (even from some of the so-called "experts").  I commend hairdressers, and people that make products who join haircare boards, b/c they want to be as knowledgeable as possible!


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## cmesweet (Apr 9, 2008)

AvaSpeaks said:


> Exactly! That's where I think people are missing the OP's point.
> 
> It just _*seems*_ like their hair grows much quicker and longer than our hair. Regardless of how their long hair may look, whether it's bad, tangled, or matted; they could cut it off if it's damaged and then 6 months later, they are almost SL or longer!
> 
> ...


 
I agree, people can have whatever opinions they would like, HOWEVER<
the resources have been provided for those who would like to examine and research this information. These products are used in the White community too. They didn't just start using  Mane and Tail and Indian products when hair forums popped up.  Hair vitamins have always been around.  

Also, what you said just contradicted itself.  SO you don't know, but you know? HMMMM interesting.

Anyways, all black people don't use growth aides, I aint using no MTG, Indian products, no WOODILLY cream, none of that. My hair seems to be just fine.


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## cocoberry10 (Apr 9, 2008)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *Actually, white women are more healthy than average black women because of their diets. Proven fact. And they have better nutrition and take more vitamins than the average black woman does. Which will explain the hair growth. Usually white woman with terrible diets do not have the best looking natural hair or skin.*


 
No offense Bravenewgirl, but I kinda disagree with you. Of course someone who takes care of their hair will Usually have better looking hair, but I know plenty of white women who never touch veggies and eat nothing but junk food, and their hair is much longer and thicker than some non-whites who do care for their hair.

I think that someone really needs to study black hair. It has so much versatility, but issues such as dryness, and breakage really stump growth, even for someone who takes good care of their hair. If we could increase softness (in some cases) and combat dryness and/or tightness (shrinkage for some), I think things like relaxers and other harmful/harsh chemical processes would be a thing of the past

In many ways, I think we have the best hair in terms of versatility, but the problems above are the thing that destroys our ability to "love" our hair. I definitely don't think our hair grows "slower" (I used to, but now I know better). But retention is the key, and that tends to be the biggest issue for Black hair


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## Southernbella. (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> i just think it's sad that anyone would refer to black hair as a "curse."  these thoughts are why we continue to think in terms of good hair/bad hair.


 
I will never, ever, ever understand this mindset. I didn't have it when I was relaxed, and I don't have it now.


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 9, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Well, at the risk of being labeled a black Nazi (or whatever) or self hating (or whatever) I'd like to throw my two pennies into this here pot:
> 
> Both sides of the issue are valid. It is just an undebatable fact that black people, with curlier hair that is thus more fragile, have to work harder to retain their hair. I don't see how one is wrong for being upset or frustrated for having to work twice as hard to get something that comes effortlessly for others. *I wonder if anyone who is of the opinion that this is a weak, self hating, or invalid argument feels the same about about black people who  believe America is still racist and blacks still have to struggle twice as hard as whites for the same jobs, same education, same rights?*


*
erplexed How can you compare hair to a social problem?*


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 9, 2008)

cocoberry10 said:


> No offense Bravenewgirl, but I kinda disagree with you. Of course someone who takes care of their hair will Usually have better looking hair, but I know plenty of white women who never touch veggies and eat nothing but junk food, and their hair is much longer and thicker than some non-whites who do care for their hair.



*I agree with everything else you've said, but we are the leaders in hypertension, diabetes, and a slew of health problems related to poor diet and exercise. There's no way that we can be healthier (in a current state) than white people with the health problems that affect that black community. They might not eat their veggies, but on a whole, they are not dropping dead as quickly as we do.*


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 9, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> *Note to you:* (and I guess to others) You feel how you feel, how you feel, and that's that!!! NOBODY has the right to rag on you for how you feel. I don't care what anybody says EVERYBODY has had atleast one bad hair day. No one has awakened every single day of their lives loving everything about them. So some of us looove our hair and are proud, good congratulations but today she's not feeling it. Dang, you'd thought she was sacrificing virgins or something. Americans of all races have gotten into this bad habit of believing, "I got the right to say...." And no everyone's opinion does not need to be heard by everyone regardless of what Oprah says!!!!!
> Please continue, thank you.



*You're diffusing the point. All I am saying is that white, asian and hispanic women go through the exact same problems as ourselves. You might not know it, then just say so. But, our hair is not that different from theirs. The only way our hair can be any more difficult than there's is if you alter the chemical properties of it, then you've created your own problems.  Same for non-black women.*


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## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

mnemosyne said:


> You can't take for granted the things that gave you back aches as a teen and become floorbound faster than any perky person's would! Before the dawn of tanks with shelf bras in (which still barely work most of the time) I'd just wish I could go without a bra in the summer with camis and tanks.



okay first off... i've ALWAYS had small breasts and NEVER gone bra-less, at least not outside the house... 

and many girls with long hair complain about how long it takes to wash/detangle/style etc.  but you still see them day in and day out with long hair.  and when and if the DO cut their hair short, the first thing i hear is how LIGHT their head feels.

now obviously it's cheaper and easier to cut your hair than to have a breast reduction  but you get my point.



trini_rican said:


> te
> 
> I think that's the main problem - Our men.  If they could just get past hair they could love us.  They're so caught up that it's given us women a complex.  Is it long enough, straight enough.  They (just like white men) adore our bodies and strength as women but let Becky's skinny *** pass by swinging her blonde hair and he's gonna look.  It's ridiculous because half the time it's extentions, when it's a black man with his white girl he's breaking his neck to check our body though Whatever.



i've never... ever... EVER seen a black man breaking his neck to look at a white girl's "swangin" hair.  where do y'all live?  SERIOUSLY.  i've seen them breaking their necks when they see it on a black woman, but NEVER a white one.  and where i live black men are dating white women like it's going out of style in 10 minutes...


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> okay first off... i've ALWAYS had small breasts and NEVER gone bra-less, at least not outside the house...
> 
> and many girls with long hair complain about how long it takes to wash/detangle/style etc.  but you still see them day in and day out with long hair.  and when and if the DO cut their hair short, the first thing i hear is how LIGHT their head feels.
> 
> ...


*
I think we both live in So Florida. Self-hate is out of control down here. I think she's also getting this from the internet because I read it all over the internet. But, I'm going to be honest: The opinions of most black men are like caca to me when it comes to black beauty. IMO, men don't need to be talking about women's beauty practices... period. I don't talk about your funky arse pomade for your 360 waves, your dumb behind tape ups and dye-ing your hair ultra-black with bigen powder to prove you've got indian in your family... so don't talk about weaves, perms, relaxers, natural hair or anything else dealing with black women's perception of beauty. That's the number one turn-off growing in me about black men; discussing topics that don't concern them not one bit. Let women worry about women stuff; you worry about men stuff.*


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 9, 2008)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *You're diffusing the point. All I am saying is that white, asian and hispanic women go through the exact same problems as ourselves. You might not know it, then just say so. But, our hair is not that different from theirs. The only way our hair can be any more difficult than there's is if you alter the chemical properties of it, then you've created your own problems. Same for non-black women.*


 
What are you talking about? When did I say other races don't have hair issues? I never said our hair was more difficult than white, asian or hispanic girls hair. You need to reread what I posted. What I'm saying is everyone has bad hair days black, white whatever. And EVERY race can experience hair issues but it is a fact that curly and kinky hair is more delicate than other textures. Black girls aren't the only women who have curly and kinky hair. It's the texture not the race. Some black girls have wavy or straight hair and looser curl patterns.
Lilamae I directed that post to you *TRYING* to say that *YOU* have the right to feel like you feel and that *OTHERS* shouldn't make it seem like *You* were sacrificing virgins by having the hair blues today. If you thought I was insulting you I'm so sorry, that was not my intent at all.


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 9, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> What are you talking about? When did I say other races don't have hair issues? I never said our hair was more difficult than white, asian or hispanic girls hair. You need to reread what I posted. What I'm saying is everyone has bad hair days black, white whatever. And EVERY race can experience hair issues but it is a fact that curly and kinky hair is more delicate than other textures. Black girls aren't the only women who have curly and kinky hair. It's the texture not the race. Some black girls have wavy or straight hair and looser curl patterns.
> Lilamae I directed that post to you *TRYING* to say that *YOU* have the right to feel like you feel and that *OTHERS* shouldn't make it seem like *You* were sacrificing virgins by having the hair blues today. If you thought I was insulting you I'm so sorry, that was not my intent at all.



*I say what YOU posted and I'm telling you we're  not MAD at Lilamae. We just don't understand why people think black hair is so hard compared to other races. She's not the first person to post about this same subject, but everytime the topic comes up I cringe, because IMO it should be common knowledge (what with all the commericals, books and magazines on hair care directed at non-black women) that everyone struggles to get the perfect hair.*


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *You're diffusing the point.* *All I am saying is that white, asian and hispanic women go through the exact same problems as ourselves. You might not know it, then just say so. But, our hair is not that different from theirs. The only way our hair can be any more difficult than there's is if you alter the chemical properties of it, then you've created your own problems.  Same for non-black women.*



I disagree. Case in point: In the summer, I go to a pool, where I can see a variety of white, asian and hispanic haired women swimming, and they ALL swim with their hair loose, none of them are wearing swimming caps.  They don't do anything special to their hair. On 2 occasions, I have tried doing the same with my l*oose natural APL 4a/b hair*, and I had so many tangles afterward, I had to cut out parts of my hair.  

Now whenever I am going to the pool, I make sure I wear my hair in 2 or 3 braids or ponytail braids, while praying that they don't come off and unravel while I am swimming.  I have also tried swimming 4 times a week with twists. By the time the week was over, my twists were already beginning to loc, and it took me forever and a day to undo them.  

Let me not even bring up how I cannot let my hair shrink up into a 2 inch ball after I have washed and conditioned it. I have to start banding/plaiting/twisting/cornrowing whatever RIGHT AWAY.  I wouldn't mind the shrinkage, but I know that 1 day later, after I have slept on it, I would have had MAJOR tangles to deal with. 

Our hair is different. It is the lack of acknowledgment of the differences that has caused our hair to retain less length. We were taught to run a comb through it everyday, like our non-black counterparts, and expect to see continuous growth like they do.  I don't know why we refuse to acknowledge that our hair is UNIQUE, and has its unique challenges. The only natural thing for my hair would be to let it lock because this is what it wants to do NATURALLY. Anything else I do with it is more or less fighting with its natural tendency.


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 9, 2008)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *I say what YOU posted and I'm telling you we're not MAD at Lilamae. We just don't understand why people think black hair is so hard compared to other races. She's not the first person to post about this same subject, but everytime the topic comes up I cringe, because IMO it should be common knowledge (what with all the commericals, books and magazines on hair care directed at non-black women) that everyone struggles to get the perfect hair.*


 Ok, I need a nap. Our hair is really beautiful whether natural or relaxed. Some days I do hate my hair but I've never hated myself. It can seem at times like everybody else has better hair than ours but it's just not true. If white women's hair was truly better than ours companies wouldn't be putting out so many products to care for their hair because they wouldn't need it, right? I can't remember the stats right now but white women especially in Europe are the top buyers of Indian and Chinese hair for hair extensions than any other race. Now to me that doesn't seem like something people who are growing hair with great ease and loving it do.


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## naturalgurl (Apr 9, 2008)

Didn't read all of the posts but we don't have a curse. The curse is, we don't accept our natural hair. The "God forbid someone see me with my hair nappy" attitude is well imbedded into our psyche. As for length, that's not a curse. My hair is all shrunk up to my shoulders but if straight it's more like BSL. I guess we as women like shaking our hair, but our hair is different. We can shake it but it doesn't flow as much(natural hair that is). This is just my opinion though...erplexed


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *I say what YOU posted and I'm telling you we're not MAD at Lilamae. We just don't understand why people think black hair is so hard compared to other races. She's not the first person to post about this same subject, but everytime the topic comes up I cringe, because IMO it should be common knowledge (what with all the commericals, books and magazines on hair care directed at non-black women) that everyone struggles to get the perfect hair.*


 
 It's all good ...and  i feel your point and i kinda knew i'd get a lot of different views on this subject. 

My opinion is that length comes easier to others ( mostly non-african americans) but at the end of the day I do love the hair one my head and even if its takes a lot more i'll be waist length someday soon.


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## naturalgurl (Apr 9, 2008)

O...K. I read the previous posts and see I might have stepped into some ish...ooops!


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## Southernbella. (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> i've never... ever... EVER seen a black man breaking his neck to look at a white girl's "swangin" hair. where do y'all live?  SERIOUSLY. i've seen them breaking their necks when they see it on a black woman, but NEVER a white one.


 
If they are, it works both ways. Ask the white guy who yelled out to me in the grocery store parking lot last night, "Hey! I love your hair!" 

I grew my relaxed hair to MBL with no protective styling, no silk scarf at night, and no coochy cream. It really isn't THAT hard, and it _definitely_ isn't a curse.


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> What are you talking about? When did I say other races don't have hair issues? I never said our hair was more difficult than white, asian or hispanic girls hair. You need to reread what I posted. What I'm saying is everyone has bad hair days black, white whatever. And EVERY race can experience hair issues but it is a fact that curly and kinky hair is more delicate than other textures. Black girls aren't the only women who have curly and kinky hair. It's the texture not the race. Some black girls have wavy or straight hair and looser curl patterns.
> *Lilamae I directed that post to you TRYING to say that YOU have the right to feel like you feel and that OTHERS shouldn't make it seem like You were sacrificing virgins by having the hair blues today. If you thought I was insulting you I'm so sorry, that was not my intent at all.*




*Thanks for the support.* And yes, like you said it was just one of those days. I failed to mentioned that earlier that morning i had a bout with some major breakage and that also fueled my temporary frustration about the extra steps we have to take just to retain length. But again..it's all good


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## Southernbella. (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> It's all good ...and i feel your point and i kinda knew i'd get a lot of different views on this subject.
> 
> *My opinion is that length comes easier to others* ( mostly non-african americans) but at the end of the day I do love the hair one my head and even if its takes a lot more i'll be waist length someday soon.


 
But even that varies among black women. There are women on this board who gain and retain length like it's nothing. I know black women in real life who are the same. My hair grows fast and I never had a problem retaining length.

I think if your (general) hair isn't growing, you have to look at your diet, haircare practices, how often you are cutting, what your stylist is doing, and what you are trying to get your hair to do.


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## naturalgurl (Apr 9, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> If they are, it works both ways. Ask the white guy who yelled out to me in the grocery store parking lot last night, "*Hey! I love your hair!"*
> 
> I grew my relaxed hair to MBL with no protective styling, no silk scarf at night, and no coochy cream. It really isn't THAT hard, and it _definitely_ isn't a curse.


 
I get compliments from more white people than black people. White people view it as beautiful and they wish they could do their hair like "that". Black people look more like "cover yo' nappy a$$ head up before people think all of us have nappy hair>." Go figure...


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> If they are, it works both ways. Ask the white guy who yelled out to me in the grocery store parking lot last night, *"Hey! I love your hair!" *
> 
> I grew my relaxed hair to MBL with no protective styling, no silk scarf at night, and no coochy cream. It really isn't THAT hard, and it _definitely_ isn't a curse.


 
 lol..thx for the post lauren. You are one of my idols and yes, i too love your hair. ( glad to know you were able to reach mbl without all the extras, but i for one am keeping my coochie cream)


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

I have said it before, our 4 a/b hair requires more conscious care to retain length.  I don't take this as a put down of our hair or as a reason to feel inferior to non-blacks.

I am sure orchids and roses that require more care to grow and flourish don't think they are less beautiful than wild flowers that grow without care.


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## JustKiya (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> I disagree. Case in point: In the summer, I go to a pool, where I can see a variety of white, asian and hispanic haired women swimming, and they ALL swim with their hair loose, none of them are wearing swimming caps.  They don't do anything special to their hair. On 2 occasions, I have tried doing the same with my loose natural APL 4a/b hair, and I had so many tangles afterward, I had to cut out parts of my hair.



 Please don't assume that because they were swimming with their hair loose, that they didn't have to go through a massive detangling session afterwards - unless you went home with those women? I'm seriously not trying to be a smartass, I'm just pointing out the - flaws in the assumption. I have a white friend, with hair down to her butt, that is harder than MINE to detangle, and it's stick straight. Don't know why, as it's in gorgeous condition, but if she wears her hair out and a good breeze sweeps through, she's got 45 minutes of detangling to deal with....so she almost never wears her hair down. She learned to work within the limitations of her hair, and doesn't call it a curse because she can't 'show off her length' 24/7.... 



Jessy55 said:


> Our hair is different. It is the lack of acknowledgment of the differences that has caused our hair to retain less length. We were taught to run a comb through it everyday, like our non-black counterpart, and expect to see continuous growth like they do.




*sigh* Sadly enough, the bottom line is that overall, _most_ black women don't know how to take care of THEIR hair. Period. For that matter, hair care isn't aimed at CURLY headed people, period, no matter what the race. It's all about making the curls flat, and then using heat to put them back in. Seriously? 

I was flipping through the online version of HypeHair the other day, and it right PISSED ME OFF that 80% of the styles in there were done on weaves, and that NONE of the articles were about actually taking care of the hair that comes out of your head. 

It's all about the money, really. It's not financial _prudent_ for companies to educate black women on how to actually take care of THEIR hair - that would mean billions of dollars suddenly down the drain. *sigh*


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## Isis (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> I was sitting on a cheap sofa in the Ikea store with my legs crossed determining the comfort and quality of my prospective new purchase when I was struck by the length (waist) and curls on this white girls head. I was like "ooh, I can't wait".. then seconds later, another just-past midback passes by, then a hip bone length and then another waist length!
> 
> One by one they passed me by with nice heads of hair I was nearly certain they took for granted.
> 
> ...


First, I want to say you are a very good writer, Lilamae. 

I believe our hair is a blessing as some of the ladies here have stated.   Black women have the most versatile hair in the world, envied and admired by many.  For some, especially in the U.S., the challenge is learning about healthy black haircare.  Once it's learned and practiced, black women are only limited to their imaginations what they can do with their hair.


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

lauren450 said:


> *But even that varies among black women.* There are women on this board who gain and retain length like it's nothing. I know black women in real life who are the same. My hair grows fast and I never had a problem retaining length.
> 
> I think if your (general) hair isn't growing, you have to look at your diet, haircare practices, how often you are cutting, what your stylist is doing, and what you are trying to get your hair to do.


 

I agree, but if we took 100 black women, 100 chinese women, 100 mexican women and 100 white women and gave them the same diet, exercise and and hair program over a 1 year span without the black girls doing all of the extra care I would venture to think based on what ive seen all my life that we come in last in terms of length retention..what do you think?


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## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

well all i know is, i grow and retain more length than a certain fine-haired, straight-haired white girl i know.  and that doesn't make her inferior to me.  if she wants long hair, she's gonna have to work harder than i do.  it is what it is.

we're all blessed with different things that another woman covets like crazy.


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

*


Isis said:



			First, I want to say you are a very good writer, Lilamae. 

Click to expand...

*


Isis said:


> I believe our hair is a blessing as some of the ladies here have stated. Black women have the most versatile hair in the world, envied and admired by many. For some, especially in the U.S., the challenge is learning about healthy black haircare. *Once it's learned and practiced, black women are only limited to their imaginations what they can do with their hair*.


 

Thanks isis you're one of my favorites. 
And I agree with your final statement


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## gymfreak336 (Apr 9, 2008)

Look

At the end of the day every race has its advantages and disadvantages when it comes to cosmetic issues. 
I don't think any of it is a curse

Okay, so it might be easier for other races to retain length. On a scientific biological level their hair has characteristics that do make it easier. So what? That doesn't mean we can't have it long and strong, that just means we have to have regimes that take in account these factors and stay consistent with what every works. Thats it...End of Story, It isn't that serious

Think about it this way......Black women as a whole have better skin....We all know the saying, black don't crack. While I see more older black women looking better than their white counterparts, it doesn't mean that a white women can't age gracefully. They might have to use a higher SPF, start anti-aging treatments at an earlier age but that doesn't mean she can't retain great skin if she puts the work it. Our hair is no different. I personally love the fact that we have great skin genetics. You can buy some hair, you can't really buy great skin. 

Indian women have great hair as well but they also have problems with body hair and hyperpigmentation as well.

Bottom line..... You can have it all, great skin, nice hair, nice nails but you might have to work harder for it in some areas but isn't that like with everything in life. 
__________________

I posted this is in the other thread so I wanted to post this here too


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## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> I agree, but if we took 100 black women, 100 chinese women, 100 mexican women and 100 white women and gave them the same diet, exercise and and hair program over a 1 year span without the black girls doing all of the extra care I would venture to think based on what ive seen all my life that we come in last in terms of length retention..what do you think?



possibly.  depends on the 100 women.  100 naturals?  100 relaxed haired women?  50/50?  what if they only grow 4 inches of hair in a year but retain all 4 inches... and the white women grow 6 inches and only retain 4. does that count for anything?  and what is the "hair program?" (too many questions, i know... ignore me, i'm always playing devil's advocate...)

i'm gonna go out on a limb here... i know very few white women who grow hair quickly.  they may retain their length well, but my hair grows as fast as theirs.  now i know several hispanic/indian women whose hair grows like weeds.  and honestly i think they're hair is usually better-looking (just my opinion of course, based on my limited experience  ).


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> okay first off... i've ALWAYS had small breasts and NEVER gone bra-less, at least not outside the house...
> 
> and many girls with long hair complain about how long it takes to wash/detangle/style etc. but you still see them day in and day out with long hair. and when and if the DO cut their hair short, the first thing i hear is how LIGHT their head feels.
> 
> ...


 
I'm in South FL so I see it all day.  I think it's important to note that there are alot of Black women with waist length hair it's just that here in the states because of the poor haircare practices used for years in our country on "afro-textured" hair it's become harder to achieve - that and the products and hard water we have to deal with.  

Ethiopean, Dominican, Trinidad, Jamaica, the Virgin Islands, and Aborigines of Australia are all very dark peoples =Black with natural un-processed hair ranging from 3b-4c textures, that hangs far below brastrap (and it's not uncommon). And most of them don't protective style because they're unfamiliar with the term.


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> possibly. depends on the 100 women. 100 naturals? 100 relaxed haired women? 50/50? what if they only grow 4 inches of hair in a year but retain all 4 inches... and the white women grow 6 inches and only retain 4. does that count for anything? and what is the "hair program?" (too many questions, i know... ignore me, *i'm *always *playing devil's advocate...)*
> 
> i'm gonna go out on a limb here... i know very few white women who grow hair quickly. they may retain their length well, but my hair grows as fast as theirs. now i know several hispanic/indian women whose hair grows like weeds. and honestly i think they're hair is usually better-looking (just my opinion of course, based on my limited experience  ).


 
your right, i know other variables must be considered but i swear it (length retention) seems to be easier for everyove else 

and ...YES you are playing devils avocate.... now cut it out before people start giving endless scenarios!


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> I agree, but if we took 100 black women, 100 chinese women, 100 mexican women and 100 white women and gave them the same diet, exercise and and hair program over a 1 year span without the black girls doing all of the extra care I would venture to think based on what ive seen all my life that we come in last in terms of length retention..what do you think?



What do I think?  I  think on the average, our length retention would be less due to our curl pattern.  

How many black women past BSL with natural 4a/b hair do you see *walking around everyday *with their hair loose, and I don't mean twistout or braidout, I mean loose as in _I washed my hair, then I just let it be_, as a regular haircare practice?   No twist, no braids, no cornrows, no buns, no nothing after washing and conditioning.   I have yet to meet this rare specimen.  Yet I have met too many white, asian and hispanic ladies who do just that.


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> your right, i know other variables must be considered but i swear it (length retention) seems to be easier for everyove else
> 
> and ...YES you are playing devils avocate.... now cut it out before people start giving endless scenarios!



 i know i know... i need to sit down and shut up... 



trini_rican said:


> I'm in South FL so I see it all day.  I think it's important to note that there are alot of Black women with waist length hair it's just that here in the states because of the poor haircare practices used for years in our country on "afro-textured" hair it's become harder to achieve - that and the products and hard water we have to deal with.
> 
> Ethiopean, Dominican, Trinidad, Jamaica, the Virgin Islands, and Aborigines of Australia are all very dark peoples =Black with natural un-processed hair ranging from 3b-4c textures, that hangs far below brastrap (and it's not uncommon). And most of them don't protective style because they're unfamiliar with the term.



interesting.  guys look at me left and right here in Indiana, yes i know they don't ALL like my hair but i guess i'm just vain and have deluded myself into thinking they do... 



Jessy55 said:


> What do I think?  I  think on the average, our length retention would be less due to our curl pattern.
> 
> How many black women past BSL with natural 4a/b hair do you see *walking around everyday *with their hair loose, and I don't mean twistout or braidout, I mean loose as in _I washed my hair, then I just let it be_, as a regular haircare practice?   No twist, no braids, no cornrows, no buns, no nothing after washing and conditioning.   I have yet to meet this rare specimen.  Yet I have met too many white, asian and hispanic ladies who do just that.



*raises hand sheepishly* do i count?  i don't wear protective styles...


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## AfroKink (Apr 9, 2008)

JustKiya said:


> Please don't assume that because they were swimming with their hair loose, that they didn't have to go through a massive detangling session afterwards - unless you went home with those women? I'm seriously not trying to be a smartass, I'm just pointing out the - flaws in the assumption.



*One of my best friends (white) is a competitive swimmer.  Her hair is mid back length.  Dyed. Flat ironed.  She's trying to grow out her most recent colour, and I told her to just cut off the coloured parts. And she said "NO! do you know how LONG it took me to grow my hair this long?!?!?" She has to do so much to keep her hair in okay condition.  She has special shampoos and conditioners.  She actually has more products than I do. Regular chlorine dries it out and makes it break.  I didn't want to fall into the "I know a white girl who....", but someone brought up swimming.  Carry on.

Lys*


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## lilamae (Apr 9, 2008)

gymfreak336 said:


> Look
> 
> At the end of the day every race has its advantages and disadvantages when it comes to cosmetic issues.
> I don't think any of it is a curse
> ...


 

Great post, gym.


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> What do I think? I think on the average, our length retention would be less due to our curl pattern.
> 
> How many black women past BSL with natural 4a/b hair do you see *walking around everyday *with their hair loose, and I don't mean twistout or braidout, I mean loose as in _I washed my hair, then I just let it be_, as a regular haircare practice. No twist, no braids, no cornrows, no buns, no nothing after washing and conditioning. I have yet to meet this rare specimen.


 
I think you need to take a trip to the islands.  You'd be pleasantly surprised.  Especially in Santo Domingo. All day every day. Dark beauties with long luscious 4a-c hair down to the waist.


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> I agree, but if we took 100 black women, 100 chinese women, 100 mexican women and 100 white women and gave them the same diet, exercise and and hair program over a 1 year span without the black girls doing all of the extra care I would venture to think based on what ive seen all my life that we come in last in terms of length retention..what do you think?


 
Do you mean with the same texture and hair growth rate? I don't think there would be a difference in those cases. I don't think it's fair for us to compare our curly hair to straight hair. I think it's like comparing apples to oranges. I think if you take 100 women of each race with straight hair and the same growth rate and all of the other varibles that you've described you would get the same results. The same for all wavy or curly headed girls of each race and all kinky headed girls of each race.
  Now the only thing that I can see that may be slowing our retention is the level of dryness of curly and kinky hair going back to that sebum  through the length of our hair to the ends of our hair thing. 
 We really don't need the help of major companies to find retention solutions for our hair. We can figure that out ourselves right here on this forum. Bump them


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> *raises hand sheepishly* do i count?  i don't wear protective styles...



So the pics you have in your siggy are achieved by wash and go?


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> So the pics you have in your siggy are achieved by wash and go?



yes.  oh i should add, i do use a leave-in.


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I think you need to take a trip to the islands.  You'd be pleasantly surprised.  Especially in Santo Domingo. All day every day. Dark beauties with long luscious 4a-c hair down to the waist.



Are you talking about Dominican Republic?  If so, they are latinos. Most of them even if they are dark have "mixed" hair. I know, people don't like to use this term, but I know that my 4 a/b is not their 4a/b.


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## AfroKink (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I'm in South FL so I see it all day.  I think it's important to note that there are alot of Black women with waist length hair it's just that here in the states because of the poor haircare practices used for years in our country on "afro-textured" hair it's become harder to achieve - that and the products and hard water we have to deal with.
> 
> Ethiopean, Dominican, Trinidad, Jamaica, the Virgin Islands, and Aborigines of Australia are all very dark peoples =Black with natural un-processed hair ranging from 3b-4c textures, that hangs far below brastrap (and it's not uncommon). *And most of them don't protective style because they're unfamiliar with the term.*



*I'd have to disagree with that in the case of Afro-Caribbeans at least.  They don't call it protective styling, but naturals (in the type 4 range) in the Caribbean generally wear their hair in combos of cornrows, twists, and braids.  In North America, naturals (in the type 4 range) seem more likely to sport afros, puffs, twist outs. 

Lys*


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> yes.  oh i should add, i do use a leave-in.



What leave-in do you use?  I have been in your fotki before, and I thought the last 3 pics were twistouts. 

Anyway, trust me when I say that my 4 a/b hair will not look like this after I wash it.

ETA: If your hair is 4a/b, maybe they should create a new category for my hair type:  5 a/b


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## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> What leave-in do you use?  I have been in your fotki before, and I thought these were twistouts.
> 
> Anyway, trust me when I say that my 4 a/b hair will not look like this after I wash it.



i use Afro Detangler from www.growafrohairlong.com... don't misunderstand me though, i pay for my hairstyle choice on detangling day.  but i don't perpetrate on Fotki.  if i have done something to style my hair in a certain way, i will usually explain how and what products used.

but let me say i don't doubt you Jessy55.  my son has 4a/4b hair that is NOTHING like mine.  he has fine, cottony strands whereas my strands are thick and more silky-feeling.  his hair is coily and shrinks *a lot *but doesn't tend to clump without manipulation.  that is one reason why i'm not fond of Andre's system.  if you never saw a pic of me and i told you "i'm black" you might imagine something totally different than what i actually look like.  it's a very generic description.


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Are you talking about Dominican Republic? If so, they are latinos. Most of them even if they are dark have "mixed" hair. I know, people don't like to use this term, but I know that my 4 a/b is not their 4a/b.


 
Yes.  Latinos have generations of no mixing - nothing but black on black Mami's and Papi's 4a-4c.  Contrary to popular belief.  Not all latinos have wavy, curly or straight hair.  Just like black people we come in all shades


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## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

MissAlyssa said:


> *I'd have to disagree with that in the case of Afro-Caribbeans at least. They don't call it protective styling, but naturals (in the type 4 range) in the Caribbean generally wear their hair in combos of cornrows, twists, and braids. In North America, naturals (in the type 4 range) seem more likely to sport afros, puffs, twist outs. *
> 
> *Lys*


 
I've personally had a different experience.  In Trinidad, PR, VI, and DR, that's not the case.  Pulled back in a pony or bun and braids (yes) but *not 90% of the time.*


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> i use Afro Detangler from www.growafrohairlong.com... *don't misunderstand me though, i pay for my hairstyle choice on detangling day*.



I bet you did.   My question is, how many days in a row did you wear your hair like that?  Is that a hairstyle that you could wear everyday and still grow hair?  That was the point I was trying to make.


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## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> I bet you did.   My question is, how many days in a row did you wear your hair like that?  Is that a hairstyle that you could wear everyday and still grow hair?  That was the point I was trying to make.



yes.  this is how i usually wear my hair... either that, or up in a puff.  now if i were less knowledgeable about natural hair, i'd probably rip thru my hair on detangling day and get done faster, but ruin my ends.  instead i detangle once a week in sections... yes it takes me a little over an hour erplexed but then i don't mess with my hair for another week so that's how i justify it.


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> Yes.  Latinos have generations of no mixing - nothing but black on black Mami's and Papi's 4a-4c.  Contrary to popular belief.  Not all latinos have wavy, curly or straight hair.  Just like black people we come in all shades



Yes there are pockets of purely black latinos, but most latinos are mixed.  If I see a dark latino in the streets of Santo Domingo, I have no way of knowing what her mixture is so I can't use her to illustrate anything about 4 a/b hair. 

People of Ethiopian and Soudanese descent also have had a lot of intermixing with other groups due to the pivotal location of their countries. Aborigenes of Australia, most of them have hair that's not 4a/b.


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> yes.  this is how i usually wear my hair... either that, or up in a puff.  now if i were less knowledgeable about natural hair, i'd probably rip thru my hair on detangling day and get done faster, but ruin my ends.  instead i detangle once a week in sections... yes it takes me a little over an hour erplexed but then i don't mess with my hair for another week so that's how i justify it.



Oh, and you sleep on it like that for like 7 days?


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## nodisrespect (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> I have said it before, our 4 a/b hair requires more conscious care to retain length.  I don't take this as a put down of our hair or as a reason to feel inferior to non-blacks.
> 
> I am sure orchids and roses that require more care to grow and flourish don't think they are less beautiful than wild flowers that grow without care.



 Am I the only one who saw the beauty AND the cleverness in this here?



gymfreak336 said:


> Look
> 
> At the end of the day every race has its advantages and disadvantages when it comes to cosmetic issues.
> I don't think any of it is a curse
> ...





I don't understand why some people are taking it as a bad thing to describe black hair as different. How could anyone deny our hair is not the same as whites, hispanics, and asians? I'm slightly less astonished but equally dismayed to see comments that claim curly hair can retain length equally as easily as straight hair... I will have to go and get some hardcore scientific facts to back this one up, because I am sure I have read otherwise...

While I do that, ladylibra may I ask you a question? What is it that led you to this board if your hair grows and retains length naturally with no specific or consistent routines? Or do you have a certain kind of hair that is different from mine and many of the other women on this board who have to take conscious care in order to maintain our hair and length? I hope you do not take this sarcastically, because I don't mean it that way, but please tell me why it is that your black hair grows effortlessly and most of ours do not?


----------



## gymfreak336 (Apr 9, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Am I the only one who saw the beauty AND the cleverness in this here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 And this is why I am very thankful that I live in this day in age where so much science has gone into understand hair and making better quality products as a result. With the heat technology and everything else, this is one of the best times to be in cosmetically speaking. There is so much we know now and have acess too.


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Oh, and you sleep on it like that for like 7 days?



yes ma'am.  on a satin pillowcase.  i do co-wash thru the week, but no additional styling.


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

gymfreak336 said:


> And this is why I am very thankful that I live in this day in age where so much science has gone into understand hair and making better quality products as a result. With the heat technology and everything else, *this is one of the best times to be in cosmetically speaking. There is so much we know now and have acess too.*


 
Soooo true.


----------



## Mystic (Apr 9, 2008)

Not so sure about this.  I have seen white coke addicts, unhealthy eaters with long, bouncy healthy hair.   I have seen blacks who eat healthily and take vitamins like it's going out of style and their hair hardly seem to grow.  Every individual is different - it's hard to generalize the way you have.



bravenewgirl87 said:


> *Actually, white women are more healthy than average black women because of their diets. Proven fact. And they have better nutrition and take more vitamins than the average black woman does. Which will explain the hair growth. Usually white woman with terrible diets do not have the best looking natural hair or skin.*


----------



## gymfreak336 (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> Soooo true.



I love my skin and hair science. My family already has great genetics when ti comes to skin but now, with the products you can even get a drug store  I am going to look ULTRA SEXY come 65 

Genetics loads the gun but the environment pulls the trigger


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Yes there are pockets of purely black latinos, but most latinos are mixed. If I see a dark latino in the streets of Santo Domingo, I have no way of knowing what her mixture is so I can't use her to illustrate anything about 4 a/b hair.
> 
> *People of Ethiopian and Soudanese descent also have had a lot of intermixing with other groups* due to the pivotal location of their countries. Aborigenes of Australia, most of them have hair that's not 4a/b.


 
And African Americans have no intermixing???? Okaaaaaay!

Here's where we'll agree to disagree.... or else we could be here all night


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

gymfreak336 said:


> I love my skin and hair science. My family already has great genetics when ti comes to skin but now, with the products you can even get a drug store  I am going to look ULTRA SEXY come 65
> 
> Genetics loads the gun but the environment pulls the trigger


 
Girlie, check out the latest photos of Stacey Dash on the cover of King!  I'm like - ok Mama gotta get to work on skin and body because I aspire!!!


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## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> yes ma'am.  on a satin pillowcase.  i do co-wash thru the week, but no additional styling.



Good for you. 

I can't do that with my 5a/b hair.


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## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> yes ma'am. on a satin pillowcase.  i do co-wash thru the week, but no additional styling.


 
OT - I love your hair...back to our regularly scheduled program


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## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

gymfreak336 said:


> Genetics loads the gun but the environment pulls the trigger



wow.. POWERFUL quote!!!


----------



## gymfreak336 (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> Girlie, check out the latest photos of Stacey Dash on the cover of King!  I'm like - ok Mama gotta get to work on skin and body because I aspire!!!



Oh, I peeped that already. I am pulling out one of my Taebo DVDs 2NITE!! I sent the pic to my SO, All he said was that was a BAAADDDDD ****!


----------



## gymfreak336 (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> wow.. POWERFUL quote!!!



I got that from a scientist, Her first name is Judith, I don't remember her last name right now. That statement can be applied to just about all issues, mental health, illness etc...


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## nodisrespect (Apr 9, 2008)

gymfreak are you now or ever have been perhaps a psych major? This is the second time I've thought that reading your comments.

ladylibra, I edited my post so maybe you didn't see my question? I'll post it again just in case:



> While I do that, ladylibra may I ask you a question? What is it that led you to this board if your hair grows and retains length naturally with no specific or consistent routines? Or do you have a certain kind of hair that is different from mine and many of the other women on this board who have to take conscious care in order to maintain our hair and length? I hope you do not take this sarcastically, because I don't mean it that way, but please tell me why it is that your black hair grows effortlessly and most of ours do not?


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Good for you.
> 
> I can't do that with my 5a/b hair.



nothing wrong with that!  and truth be told, i'd probably be better off in protective styles.  but just like some women can eat any and everything and still be skinny, whereas others say a doughnut makes them gain 10 lbs. instantly. 

do you have a Fotki?  if so i'm off to peekd at your pics...


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

gymfreak336 said:


> Oh, I peeped that already. I am pulling out one of my Taebo DVDs 2NITE!! I sent the pic to my SO, All he said was that was a BAAADDDDD ****!


 
I just showed my DH and brother and their eyes nearly came out of the sockets   She's a beauty.  I can't do Tae Bo yet but when I drop this baby, Lord have mercy! I got some work to do.


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> And African Americans have no intermixing???? Okaaaaaay!
> 
> Here's where we'll agree to disagree.... or else we could be here all night



Sure AA have intermixing. But when it comes to Ethiopians, Sudaneses and Erythreans, I usually can tell who they are when I see them here in the Bay Area.  Most (NOT ALL) have a certain look and they have a certain type of hair. 

And no, I don't want to be there all night  either.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Apr 9, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> gymfreak are you now or ever have been perhaps a psych major? This is the second time I've thought that reading your comments.
> 
> ladylibra, I edited my post so maybe you didn't see my question? I'll post it again just in case:



No, never been but psych interest me. I am a biochem student currently but I might be full fledged biology this fall. I have enough chem credits to finish with a minor in chem. 

The thing that interests me the most about people and their thought processes is the lack of deductive reasoning and critical thinking skills people use.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I just showed my DH and brother and their eyes nearly came out of the sockets   She's a beauty.  I can't do Tae Bo yet but when I drop this baby, Lord have mercy! I got some work to do.



Congrads on the baby!


----------



## Qetesh (Apr 9, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Am I the only one who saw the beauty AND the cleverness in this here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i didnt make the comment but i do find that my hair grows very effortlessly. i recently cut it from waistlength and i see it being back at waistlength again if i dont get it cut again. with that being said i do feel that our hair is harder to RETAIN length then other races, chiefly because it likes to tangle against itself so much and tends to grow out rather then down. this tangling makes breakage easier not to mention the extreme curls can break just from being so curly. 

i think with proper retaining of hair and assuming your growth rate isnt low all black hair will grow effortlessly... one thing too is relaxed hair is going to be a constant battle because u are going against your natural texture and you are stripping the hair and weakening it. natural hair will not show its length as much since our hair grows out more so than down. 


overall to the OP i dont feel black hair is a curse at all if anything its a blessing, we can achieve EVERY look, from straight 1 to 3c's to whatever natural texture you happen to be. our hair IMO also appears thicker which is very attractive to me. i think the OP may feel its soo hard because like others said she is going against nature to achieve a look that is not inherent to her and of course thats going to be hard, just like if all white women with straight hair teased and attempted to get a fro daily. the issue is more with the texture she WANTs but doesn't have its hard to achieve what white people inherently have.


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> nothing wrong with that!  and truth be told, i'd probably be better off in protective styles.  but just like some women can eat any and everything and still be skinny, whereas others say a doughnut makes them gain 10 lbs. instantly.
> 
> do you have a Fotki?  if so i'm off to peekd at your pics...



I used to have hair albums, not anymore. I'd have to find some pics of my hair after shrinkage, you'll see what I'm talking about. 

My hair has been APL for the longest now. Yes I could wear twists everyday, and sleep with bonnet, and moisturize my ends regularly, etc,  and I am sure if I did, my hair would have made it to BSL and past that, but I haven't done those things as a regular practice for a couple of years now.  I am content at APL.  If and when I get a strong urge for BSL, I will do the extra stuff I need to do to make it happen.  I still HAVE to do stuff like no combing hair when dry, washing hair in sections and immediately put hair in some containing hairstyle after washing, I flatiron rarely, and never blow dry, condition religiously, and all these things have helped my hair make it to APL.  None of my non-black friends have to take these precautions.


----------



## anon123 (Apr 9, 2008)

AvaSpeaks said:


> And the other argument about how some of us are fighting against what our hair should do is not exactly true either. Because if that was the case, then we should have these huge gigantic afros hanging on our heads  or our hair being super long, if it's in braids.



I bet you if you wore your hair in braids (your own hair, not fake hair) and just took them down to detangle once a month or two, your hair would grow long fast. About the afro, I said it a couple times but I guess no one has read it.  I still think a big afro is not what my hair was meant to do.  I enjoy this style but it is a style prone to tangling and breakage.  It's the symbol of natural black hair in this country, but really it's not a style to be worn everyday. So I ask myself, what styles would not be prone to breakage?  The answer is locs.  If I want long hair without any hassle, I can have it any time, all I have to do is loc and wash and add some moisturizer.  If I don't want locs but still want hassle-free hair, I can cut it very low and have a twa.  There are ways for us to not fight with our hair, there are ways for our hair to grow long with ease, we just don't choose them.  And that's fine, I haven't made that choice, either.  But it's false to say the option of hair that doesn't fight with us or hair that doesn't grow long with ease aren't available to black women.


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

gymfreak336 said:


> Congrads on the baby!


 
Thanks!!  It's my third, and last the baby girl that I've always wanted.  Truly a blessing from God.

OT - You have a very eloquent way of saying things.  You should consider writing professionally.


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> ladylibra, I edited my post so maybe you didn't see my question? I'll post it again just in case:



sorry i did miss your question! 

i do not take it as sarcasm at all.  but my hair growth journey started when i went natural.  before, i was relaxing my hair, using heat on a daily basis (flat iron PLUS curling iron), and had been coloring my hair for 3 months.  although my hair grew relatively 5-6 inches in a year, i had to cut any length i saw because my hair was always dry and full of split ends.  except for when i was a little girl, my relaxed hair never grew longer than APL.

basically, when i went natural i eliminated the 2 major contributors to my inability to grow long hair - chemical straighteners and heat abuse.  generally speaking, i think most of us on the board grow 4-6 inches a year.  the key is retaining that length.  i personally have found that the KISS method is key for me - the less i do to my hair, the more it thrives.  my hair's main desire is moisture, and co-washing takes care of that (so much so, that i had to start doing protein treatments because i was overdoing it and my hair got mushy erplexed ).

now i'm not saying everyone's hair problems will be solved by going natural... chances are if i had come here first instead of Nappturality, i might still be relaxed and trying to grow my hair out... and i would have to put more conscious care into my tresses.  this is what works best for me.  i know many other ladies on here who have been relaxed and natural, and prefer being relaxed because it's less maintenance and work.  to each her own.


----------



## anon123 (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I think you need to take a trip to the islands.  You'd be pleasantly surprised.  Especially in Santo Domingo. All day every day. Dark beauties with long luscious 4a-c hair down to the waist.



Without wearing twists or braids or buns or some protective style?  On hair like mine?  Then please let me know the secret.  I would love to be able to wear my hair out and have it not cause me stress and have it still grow!

LL, your hair is lovely and I totally, in a not secret way, envy your ability to wear it out all the time and have it not mat and turn into locks.  I don't think you're a 4a/b though.


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> OT - I love your hair...back to our regularly scheduled program



thank you!  and you know i love yours too


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> Without wearing twists or braids or buns or some protective style?  On hair like mine?  Then please let me know the secret.  I would love to be able to wear my hair out and have it not cause me stress and have it still grow!
> 
> LL, your hair is lovely and I totally, in a not secret way, envy your ability to wear it out all the time and have it not mat and turn into locks.  I don't think you're a 4a/b though.



oh perhaps that's why Jessy was looking at me like 

i'm 4a, the front is a tad looser and no one has been able to tell me if it is is definitely 3c or just a looser 4a.  but it's the LOOSER hair that acts up the most... the 4a hair is very well-behaved compared to it...


----------



## lovelymissyoli (Apr 9, 2008)

MrsWatson said:


> I used to feel this way in college. My roomie and BFF was a white chick who would cut her hair like twice a year. I'd always ask "why'd u cut it" and she would say, "it gets in the way. I tried to roll over in my sleep last night and got caught in my hair". So, she would cut it up to neck length and in 3 months (literally) she'd be damn near APL. *I always thought it was unfair that I was sleeping in satin scarves, balancing moisture and protein, dusting my split ends, etc., all while achieving little growth. All she would do is wash a few times a week and she had major growth, no breakage issues or anything.* I've learned a lot more about MY hair since then, but i definitely feel where u were coming from. I've had to battle myself on this issue before, as well.



This is what I've been dealing with lately. I don't think black women's hair texture is a "curse" (that's a harsh way of looking at it), I just don't understand why we have to go through so much to keep hair on our heads and gain length --- relaxed or natural!! When I was natural I couldn't wear a puff everyday if I wanted my hair to grow... I had to keep it twisted. I also had to wash n' go in intervals because detangling would be horrible if I did it everyday. I still had to protect my ends, use no heat, moisturize, deep condition, do protein treatments, clip split ends, etc as a NATURAL. And now that I'm texlaxed, I still have to do the SAME thing! And for what, 1/4" a month?!


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> Without wearing twists or braids or buns or some protective style? On hair like mine? Then please let me know the secret. I would love to be able to wear my hair out and have it not cause me stress and have it still grow!
> 
> LL, your hair is lovely and I totally, in a not secret way, envy your ability to wear it out all the time and have it not mat and turn into locks. I don't think you're a 4a/b though.


 
I'm a 4a but that's due to a long period of wear and tear on my hair.  I had waist length hair but it was unhealthy. I was a 3b/c but I dyed black every 6 weeks (I'm talking permanent dye)since I was 17 I'm 33 now. Blow dried daily - you name it I did it.  I hated my curly hair and wanted it straighter or wavy (not so bushy) and eventually I ruined it with trying to dye my hair red (auburn) it came out so bad. It was totally fried.  I had to cut it to my shoulders. I learned though. Now I can't wear it out all the time but I do wear it out.  The bunning is quick and easy.  Because my hair is so dry from all the years of coloring I have to do more now than ever in my life but it's a lesson learned.  I'm back to doing it how they do in the islands, natural hair care products.  Little heat once a month at most.  As one previous poster put it we ALL (as women) have our own issues with our hair. Even Asians, Middle Easterners, and whites.


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> thank you! and you know i love yours too


 
Thanks, I just want my curls to pop like that! Beautiful lady.


----------



## Mystic (Apr 9, 2008)

I had to burst out laughing when I saw your question in bold!



lovelymissyoli said:


> This is what I've been dealing with lately. I don't think black women's hair texture is a "curse" (that's a harsh way of looking at it), I just don't understand why we have to go through so much to keep hair on our heads and gain length --- relaxed or natural!! When I was natural I couldn't wear a puff everyday if I wanted my hair to grow... I had to keep it twisted. I also had to wash n' go in intervals because detangling would be horrible if I did it everyday. I still had to protect my ends, use no heat, moisturize, deep condition, do protein treatments, clip split ends, etc as a NATURAL. And now that I'm texlaxed, I still have to do the SAME thing! *And for what, 1/4" a month?! *


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> nothing wrong with that!  and truth be told, i'd probably be better off in protective styles.  but just like some women can eat any and everything and still be skinny, whereas others say a doughnut makes them gain 10 lbs. instantly.
> 
> do you have a Fotki?  if so i'm off to peekd at your pics...



As you requested. Here are some pics for ya.

The following has been done with banded hair:

This picture here was the first time I banded my hair. I liked the result, because it made my hair so much softer and it helped it lay down a bit. 





















One pressed but sweaty from exercising hair:





Yeah, I was nearing BSL, that was 2 years ago. I haven't done much protective styles since. 

Here is my hair at its true natural un-manipulated, non-banded, non-twisted, non-pleated, shrinkage:

This is a 4-bun hairstyle:










I kid you not, if I don't do something to my natural hair after washing,  it shrinks up to that length and I can't untangle it 1 day later without losing major hair.


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

^^^just as i thought... looks very much like my son's hair. (well, except yours is much longer, obviously i keep his short) i know he has SUPER shrinkage.  after a certain length, if i want to keep his hair growing i'd have to keep it in protective styles because it gets to be too much trying to detangle loose hair every morning after a toddler's wild sleeping session... not to mention all the playing and tumbling he does all day. 

your hair looks extremely healthy though... i would be interested to know what products you use.  i don't plan on growing my son's hair long but i would like his to look as nice as yours.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> Thanks!!  It's my third, and last the baby girl that I've always wanted.  Truly a blessing from God.
> 
> OT - You have a very eloquent way of saying things.  You should consider writing professionally.




I can't wait till she is here. I want to see pics of a future LHCF member 

Thanks for the compliment


----------



## Mystic (Apr 9, 2008)

Your hair looks so healthy, soft and beautiful.



Jessy55 said:


> As you requested. Here are some pics for ya.
> 
> The following has been done with banded hair:
> 
> ...


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

gymfreak336 said:


> I can't wait till she is here. I want to see pics of a future LHCF member
> 
> *Thanks for the compliment*


  Welcome, I'm just telling the truth.

She's already a member and doesn't even know it


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> As you requested. Here are some pics for ya.
> 
> The following has been done with banded hair:
> 
> ...


 
Your hair's so pretty.  Very healthy, shine is incredible.  Shrinkage is a ****.


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks ladies. I don't even mind shrinkage, it can be beautiful at times. It's the detangling after shrinkage I HATE. 

What products do I use?  
 For the past 2 years, just the bare minimum leave in (homemade concoctions of coconut oil, and cheapy slippery conditioners, Paul Mitchell The Conditioner, Castor oil, whatever is available in the cabinet).

Lately, my hair has been suffering from a lack of moisture and losing its luster.   What happened is that I have been taking acupuncture classes where sometimes, you are going to be laying down on a bed while others are needling you, and I got embarrassed because I was the only one leaving greasy oily streaks on the pillowcases.   So, I stopped using a lot of moisture and grease on my hair. I'll be done in December, though, so I will go back to moisturizing and pampering my hair after that.


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 9, 2008)

^^^okay i REALLY need to start using coconut oil on his hair.  people keep singing its praises and i'm still sleeping on it. 

IKWYM about grease spots... last time i did that was at the ob/gyn.  as if those visits aren't embarrasing enough...


----------



## hopeful (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy, your hair takes my breath away.  Love the pics.

Onto the topic at hand, I don't believe our hair is a curse but it is harder to detangle, takes longer to do, and takes more effort to retain length.  At least for most of us 4a/b ladies.  But as Gymfreak mentioned, there are other areas in which I don't have to work so hard, if at all.  There are days when I don't feel like putting in the effort, when I dream of a non-chemical relaxer that would magically loosen my coil just right and of course I'd never have to "touch-up."  There are days I wish I didn't have three distinct textures on my head.  Most of the time I am just fine and grateful.  Personally, if I spent too much time begrudging my hair and wishing it were otherwise, I'd become very depressed.


----------



## hopeful (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Thanks ladies. I don't even mind shrinkage, it can be beautiful at times. It's the detangling after shrinkage I HATE.
> 
> What products do I use?
> For the past 2 years, just the bare minimum leave in (homemade concoctions of coconut oil, and cheapy slippery conditioners, Paul Mitchell The Conditioner, Castor oil, whatever is available in the cabinet).
> ...


 
Jessy can't you just put a towel over the pillow?  I'd hate that pretty hair to suffer through December.


----------



## Platinum (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> As you requested. Here are some pics for ya.
> 
> The following has been done with banded hair:
> 
> ...


 

Jessy, *I love your hair! *I'm seriously thinking about letting mine go natural.  I haven't had my hair completely natural since I was 9 years old (I'm 35 now) Our hair is beautiful, I wish I had learned to appreciate natural hair a long time ago. Thank you for posting those pics. You really made my day!


----------



## AfroKink (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I've personally had a different experience. In Trinidad, PR, VI, and DR, that's not the case. Pulled back in a pony or bun and braids (yes) but *not 90% of the time.*


 
*You find most type 4a/b naturals wearing afros and puffs in those regions? I've never been to any of those islands*

*In my experince, in St. Lucia and in Barbados, and with people from TNT, JA, and St. Vincent living in Bdos, the 4a/b naturals normally (95%+ of the time) have their hair in some kind of cornrow, twist, braid style.  I don't see girls walking around with their hair "flying" as they would say. *

*Lys*


----------



## Choklatekiss79 (Apr 9, 2008)

As a natural 4a/b and that works out at a gym several times per week, I must say that seeing what white, asian, latina (some), etc. women go through to look "good" before they leave the gym is exhausting.  It's the washing, towel drying, combing, blow drying, flat ironing, tossing....  

Meanwhile, I just conditioner wash, blot, thow in some leave in conditioner, fluff, and I'M DONE!  I swear at times they look at me with envy.  And I just hold my head up high, smile, speak, and get on with life. 

I honestly couldn't imagine having to do all that they do.  It's those times (and others of course) when I really value and treasure my natural hair.  When I was relaxed, handling my hair after going to the gym was not an enjoyable experience.


----------



## Ms Lala (Apr 9, 2008)

I agree, we *choose* to do alot w/our hair, technically we could all just rock our natural hair in a wash n go or fro.  I can go a month w/o combing my hair.  I LOVE that about my hair, I don't have to do a lot w/it but sometimes I choose to if I want to do a different style.



cmesweet said:


> First of all, you never know what a White person, or any person for tat matter went through to grow their hair. Plus, I see that you are in California, that might not have been their hair in the first place.
> 
> 
> Secondly, I think people make a choice to do alot with their hair. I don't do much with mine. I am a member of a predominantly White hair board and we use the same hair techniques, except since I have curly/ coily hair, I stick to add or take off things on my regimen.
> ...


----------



## Choklatekiss79 (Apr 9, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> te
> 
> I think that's the main problem - Our men. If they could just get past hair they could love us. They're so caught up that it's given us women a complex. Is it long enough, straight enough. They (just like white men) adore our bodies and strength as women but let Becky's skinny *** pass by swinging her blonde hair and he's gonna look. It's ridiculous because half the time it's extentions, when it's a black man with his white girl he's breaking his neck to check our body though Whatever.


 
Well I think that if we as black women want our men to appreciate us, we have to do our part and be confident enough to BE us.  We can't blame them for our SELF esteem issues. Ya know?


----------



## Cayenne0622 (Apr 9, 2008)

I want to read all of these responses but I'm soooo tired tonite so I'll just post for now (after having read 2 pages worth).

I'm glad there are so many blk women in this forum who love their black hair. Heck I love ya'llz hair too!!But my hair has been a hot mess from birth!! Allllways been a struggle whether natural or straight.

I still find myself seeing a black woman with some nice silky coily natural hair and I ask...now why can't all black women have hair that coily and silky and full? I don't necessarily wish we had exactly what other people have but this hair is definitely difficult and other races (at least the ones I've encountered) are intrigued with our hair but are soooooooo happy that they don't have it.  

On Tyra's show when they had different races of men on and different races of women on. The main concensus amongst all other races of men on why they don't fantasize or find black women attractive was OUR HAIR. That hurt my feelings so bad.  They weren't even trying to be mean or anything...just honest.

In fact in the end, the black woman was the only one who was not picked by any race of man (not even blk) as someone they fantasize about. And I kid you not SHE WAS HONESTLY THE MOST BEAUTIFUL GIRL ON THE STAGE.  

Anyway, coming from a family of women with naturally silky, curly thick, beautiful hair, I am the odd ball with thin, kinky, fragile easily broken hair. It can be depressing.  As an adult, I know how to manage it to keep it looking nice but the poster is correct WOMEN WITH STRAIGHTER HAIR HAVE AN EASIER TIME MANAGING their hair. 

I'll give one of many examples and then I'm out.  My neighbor is Mexican. Every morning she washes her hair and normally doesn't even bother with conditioner.  Soak and wet she vigorously brushes it back into a ponytail holder that is hard with a metal piece on it. She roughly pulls her hair through the holder wraps it around and then secures it all in the same holder. Her hair is bunched up in the holder and looks like her hair should all break and fall out when she takes it down. But everytime she yanks that holder out of her hair, thick volumes of beautiful hair falls down her back to bsl. She gets it cut and it is right back in a couple of months like it was never touched.  I've been babying my hair for 1 1/2 years now with moisture and protein balance and oils and deep conditioning and protective styles and little to no heat and I am constantly battling breakage and/or shedding.  It saddens me at times which is why I haven't posted pictures in months.  I have to keep cutting it the length in my avatar because it just refuses to do right! 

Anywho...thanks for letting me vent.  I feel much better. lol


----------



## moonglowdiva (Apr 9, 2008)

I have not read through all of the comments posted. I just wanted to comment on the hook. "Hair...The Black Woman's Curse". Last year, I being an AA woman would have agreed. But today, i disagee with that. The curse is wanting the STYLE to last. AA women want to be cute. That's all it is. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and that is AA women. Caucasian women don't care about hair STYLES like that. Don't get me wrong, they do go to the beauty shop and they get lots of chemical services but they might go once in 6 or 8 weeks. We will go every week, every 2 week etc. I like STLIST but they are trained to STYLE hair not care for it. We as AA women have to learn to care for our hair and get over what the STYLE looks like. Just my 2 cent.


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## MizAvalon (Apr 9, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> Now when it comes to Indian women, we're screwed


 
OK!! If they don't have the most lush, gorgeous hair then I don't know who does.


----------



## MizAvalon (Apr 9, 2008)

PeggyFair said:


> Also, even when BW straighten their hair, it will never be as straight as that of a WW, and that in itself is a good thing, cuz when it is that straight it tends to look limp sometimes. Even when we relax our hair, it still has body.


 
Agreed. Black relaxed hair looks like black relaxed hair. I have never seen black hair as straight as caucasian hair, even when it's permed within an inch of its life.


----------



## Choklatekiss79 (Apr 9, 2008)

naturalgurl said:


> Didn't read all of the posts but we don't have a curse. The curse is, we don't accept our natural hair. The "God forbid someone see me with my hair nappy" attitude is well imbedded into our psyche. As for length, that's not a curse. My hair is all shrunk up to my shoulders but if straight it's more like BSL. I guess we as women like shaking our hair, but our hair is different. We can shake it but it doesn't flow as much(natural hair that is). This is just my opinion though...erplexed


 
Totally agree!


----------



## Ms.Honey (Apr 9, 2008)

MizAvalon said:


> OK!! If they don't have the most lush, gorgeous hair then I don't know who does.


 
hehehehe I can't say a bad thing against it. 

I'm gonna figure this thing out though, y'all are welcome to join me. I'm telling y'all it has something to do with our natural oils and moisture levels. Maybe our livers aren't producing enough or something. At the very least we all have some common ancestor that dried us out and our hair and skin a suffering for it now


----------



## Choklatekiss79 (Apr 9, 2008)

lilamae said:


> I agree, but if we took 100 black women, 100 chinese women, 100 mexican women and 100 white women and gave them the same diet, exercise and and hair program over a 1 year span without the black girls doing all of the extra care I would venture to think based on what ive seen all my life that we come in last in terms of length retention..what do you think?


 
I'm seriously not trying to be an a$$ or anything, but at the end of the day, what would this prove?  It just seems like a defeatist argument.  What would you say if it actually turned out that the black women retained more legnth? It seems that every positive spin put on this thread is getting challenged negatively.


----------



## MizAvalon (Apr 9, 2008)

Monigirl said:


> Just in my life I have experienced more delimas with my skin than my hair (acne, cyst, blemishes). *I feel hair makes a woman beautiful weither it be long, short, or medium but a womans skin is what trully makes her beautiful.* Personnaly I get more jealous when I meet or see women with youthful beautiful blemishes free skin tone... may I add without wearing makeup. That is why I am planing to a do a master cleanse or detox soon in the efforts to improve my skin complexion.
> 
> OT:
> Hyperpigmentation is something all races deal with espically women of color and women in my family. I personally have minor hyperpigmentation on my face in a few areas. Hyperpigmentation is when your skin heals darker than the original shade after you get a scar or pimple or experience trama. In a nutshel is it a blemish or mark that heals darker than your original skin tone. I will be going to school soon to study skin and beauty procedures to help myself and other achieve flawless youthful complexions.
> ...


 
I see this on women so much. Makes me sad.


----------



## MizAvalon (Apr 9, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> okay first off... i've ALWAYS had small breasts and NEVER gone bra-less, at least not outside the house...
> 
> and many girls with long hair complain about how long it takes to wash/detangle/style etc. but you still see them day in and day out with long hair. and when and if the DO cut their hair short, the first thing i hear is how LIGHT their head feels.
> 
> ...


 
I don't think I've ever seen this either. Long haired white women are a dime a dozen, why would anyone break their neck to look at their long hair?


----------



## MizAvalon (Apr 9, 2008)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *I think we both live in So Florida. Self-hate is out of control down here. I think she's also getting this from the internet because I read it all over the internet. But, I'm going to be honest: The opinions of most black men are like caca to me when it comes to black beauty. IMO, men don't need to be talking about women's beauty practices... period. I don't talk about your funky arse pomade for your 360 waves, your dumb behind tape ups and dye-ing your hair ultra-black with bigen powder to prove you've got indian in your family... so don't talk about weaves, perms, relaxers, natural hair or anything else dealing with black women's perception of beauty. That's the number one turn-off growing in me about black men; discussing topics that don't concern them not one bit. Let women worry about women stuff; you worry about men stuff.*


 

It is a little creepy when a man is that concerned with women's beauty paractices.


----------



## Sugarhoney (Apr 9, 2008)

How is black women's hair cursed when white people's hair is a genetic mutation of ours? That is just brainwash. 1a hair comes from 3c/4a hair. Their hair is straight because of the cold climate 20,000 yrs ago. The scalp overproduced oil & heat to keep them warm during the cold dark ages of Europe, thust changing coily hair to straight hair over the years and down generations--it is like a natural thousand year long genetic relaxer. Just as 4b hair is a mutation of 3c/4a--it comes from climates along the equater where the heat stripped the moisture out of the cuticles. The original homosapiens where first found in Ethiopia, and then later in South Africa--those people have the blueprint hair, skin color, and facial features of all humans.

Sorry for the history and genetics rant, but it frusterates me to see our beautiful hair not be respected and appreciated.


----------



## cmesweet (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> What do I think? I think on the average, our length retention would be less due to our curl pattern.
> 
> How many black women past BSL with natural 4a/b hair do you see *walking around everyday *with their hair loose, and I don't mean twistout or braidout, I mean loose as in _I washed my hair, then I just let it be_, as a regular haircare practice? No twist, no braids, no cornrows, no buns, no nothing after washing and conditioning. I have yet to meet this rare specimen. Yet I have met too many white, asian and hispanic ladies who do just that.


 

Well it depends on the season, but I have BSL or longer 4a/b hair and in the summer I wear wash-n-go puffs on the regular. I go 2 weeks without detangling.   

Besides, how can YOU tell if a natural 4a/b is BSL, especially if they are wearing a wash-n-go?  My wash-n-go puffs look about 1inch- 2inches shrunken. I do see alot of naturals with shrunken hair, but I can't determine their lengths in the shrunken state.


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

hopeful said:


> Jessy can't you just put a towel over the pillow?  I'd hate that pretty hair to suffer through December.



I really haven't thought about doing that... But then the towel would soak up all the moisture,   defeating the purpose of moisturizing my hair in the first place.  

And there are times when students or teachers will be going into your scalp to place needles, I don't want their hands to come out all greasy and stuff.   I don't want to have to explain black hair care practices to non-black folks.


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

Platinum said:


> Jessy, *I love your hair! *I'm seriously thinking about letting mine go natural.  I haven't had my hair completely natural since I was 9 years old (I'm 35 now) Our hair is beautiful, *I wish I had learned to appreciate natural hair a long time ago.* Thank you for posting those pics. You really made my day!



thanks Platinum.  It's never too late. I was older than you when I went natural. Also, you don't have to stay  natural forever. I thought I would never use relaxers again after I went natural, but so many years later, I am not sure anymore.  I get tempted to relax quite often, and who knows, one day I might do it.


----------



## cmesweet (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok I just read the whole thread, Jessy your hair is beautiful. I believe I've seen your hair album a few times and I loved your styles.


----------



## SerenavanderWoodsen (Apr 9, 2008)

OP , i hear you, i feel that way very often


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 9, 2008)

In case I missed somebody, I just wanted to say thank you for the compliments to:

LadyLibra, Mystic, Trini-Rican, Hopeful, Platinum, Cmesweet.  

Black hair is uniquely beautiful.


----------



## Isis (Apr 9, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> As you requested. Here are some pics for ya.
> 
> The following has been done with banded hair:
> 
> ...


I love these pics! I know I'm late but I've always loved and admired your hair Jessy.  Your techniques are very creative also.


----------



## Christa438 (Apr 10, 2008)

Just finished reading this thread. I know Im late. Im glad we can *understand *what one another has to say about our *hair* issues whether we *agree* or *disgree* with what is said. That's another reason why I love LHCF so much! 

It's funny that one poster saw a few ww with WL hair because I was in a store the other day (slyly doing hair evaluations --thanks LHCF for turning me into a hair judge... everywhere I go I gotta be lookin upside people head at their hair condition and texture...and always have to play it off if they turn around in my direction ----> hurry up and act like Im looking at something else--cant help it lately ) but I noticed that a majority of ww and some women of other races were wearing APL or shorter...now I don't know if that's because they keepin up with the latest Spring/Summer hair-fashion-season-styles but that's what I witnessed on that day at that time. Yep, sure is.  Some may have problems, and some don't have problems but just prefer that shorter style--that's what i feel. 

And Miss Mae, your hair is pretty! And i can understand your frustration. If I don't make APL by the time the Summer is over, Im going to be very upset .... 
Come on yolanda adams, I need you to cheer me up...sing yo song

"They said you wouldn't make it so far a a
And ever since they've said it its been hard
But never mind that night'cha had to cry
Cause you had never let it go inside
You worked real hard and you know exactly what you want and need so believe
And you can never give up
You can reach your goals
Just talk to your soul and say

_[Chorus:]_
I believe i can
I believe i will
I believe i know my dreams are real
I believe i can
I believe i will
I believe i hold it soon man
That is what i do believe..."

okay, Let me take myself to bed....


----------



## lilamae (Apr 10, 2008)

Choklatekiss79 said:


> I'm seriously not trying to be an a$$ or anything, but at the end of the day, what would this prove? It just seems like a defeatist argument. What would you say if it actually turned out that the black women retained more legnth? It seems that every positive spin put on this thread is getting challenged negatively.


 
I'm not trying to be negative at all love, i'm just going on my personal lifetime observation of growth retention among different races.  Yes I think we can grow our hair as long but Its hard for someone to convince me that we don't have to do waay moreto get there. that's all I'm saying...


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## LadyPaniolo (Apr 10, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> I have said it before, our 4 a/b hair requires more conscious care to retain length.  I don't take this as a put down of our hair or as a reason to feel inferior to non-blacks.
> 
> * I am sure orchids and roses that require more care to grow and flourish don't think they are less beautiful than wild flowers that grow without care.*



And AMEN! This is the most beautiful way to sum up black hair care I've ever heard. Thank you so much for this.


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## LookingandListening (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Well, at the risk of being labeled a black Nazi (or whatever) or self hating (or whatever) I'd like to throw my two pennies into this here pot:
> 
> Both sides of the issue are valid. It is just an undebatable fact that black people, with curlier hair that is thus more fragile, have to work harder to retain their hair. I don't see how one is wrong for being upset or frustrated for having to work twice as hard to get something that comes effortlessly for others. I wonder if anyone who is of the opinion that this is a weak, self hating, or invalid argument feels the same about about black people who  believe America is still racist and blacks still have to struggle twice as hard as whites for the same jobs, same education, same rights?
> 
> ...



ITA!!!!  Well said


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## Poohbear (Apr 10, 2008)

I don't see my hair or any black woman's hair as a curse... nor do I feel like I have to do much more to keep the hair on my head.  I just deal with my hair every 2 weeks and my hair still grows and retains length. Just leave your hair alone and it will grow.


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## Poohbear (Apr 10, 2008)

lilamae said:


> I'm not trying to be negative at all love, i'm just going on my personal lifetime observation of growth retention among different races. Yes I think we can grow our hair as long but Its hard for someone to convince me that we don't have to do waay moreto get there. that's all I'm saying...


What do you mean by we Black women have to do WAY MORE to get longer hair???  erplexed  I know I don't have to do way more than a White woman to my hair.


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## cecilie (Apr 10, 2008)

I don't think that our hair is a curse for us , In Africa before the" fashion  of relaxer " when I was young  many women made cornrows and singles braids and their hair were very nice they put  red palm oil , coconut oil and lot of other things ans it'  wasn't hard for her but you know the fashion , the TV MODEL OF STRAIGHT HAIR , contact with white people and the "modern world " changes all the values so ....
but all race can think that something is fun or a curse and it' s depend on how you fell .
Cecilie .


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 10, 2008)

MizAvalon said:


> It is a little creepy when a man is that concerned with women's beauty paractices.



*I think its bizarre too. It so annoying when you're trying to read Bossip and the comments about Kim K. turn into an all out brawl about black women wearing weaves or contacts.If they think black women have self-hate, you won't believe the things I hear more black men say "I'm light-skinned with curly hair; why won't white women be nice to me?" or "You want me to wear my hair NAPPY? Oh, hell no. I need my waves." "My hair is curly that's how I can get natural waves." I understand why so many black women hate nappy hair because black men have no clue about themselves or their natural black beauty and perpetuate those same feelings in young girls, so they too hate how they look.LISTEN TO ME NOW, BLACK MEN: ALL BLACK PEOPLE HAVE NATURALLY CURLY HAIR. SOME HAVE CURLS IN VARYING DEGREES, BUT ITS STILL CURLY.YOU'RE NOT THAT SPECIAL.

*


----------



## anon123 (Apr 10, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> I have said it before, our 4 a/b hair requires more conscious care to retain length.  I don't take this as a put down of our hair or as a reason to feel inferior to non-blacks.
> 
> I am sure orchids and roses that require more care to grow and flourish don't think they are less beautiful than wild flowers that grow without care.



Very eloquently put.  And it bears noting that even orchids are wildflowers somewhere.  When you try to grow them in an unnatural environment, e.g. your windowsill, they will require more care.  Still beautiful, no one would argue, and those who grow them (like me  ) would definitely not consider the care required for them a curse.  But when they grow in their natural environment, they bloom without any artificial intervention, any intervention, and any stress.


----------



## nodisrespect (Apr 10, 2008)

> What do you mean by we Black women have to do WAY MORE to get longer hair???  erplexed  I know I don't have to do way more than a White woman to my hair.



I'm sorry, but I don't understand this comment. Ok, that's you. Does this negate the vast majority of women on this board that DO have stick to strict routines in order to successfully grow their hair? I'm getting like gymfreak over here, fascinated by other people's deductive skills. This is a fallacy of argument called the statistic of small numbers. In other words, just because someone can point to a few favorable outcomes, that says nothing about the overall chances of the whole.


----------



## AfroKink (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't understand this comment. Ok, that's you. Does this negate the vast majority of women on this board that DO have stick to strict routines in order to successfully grow their hair? I'm getting like gymfreak over here, fascinated by other people's deductive skills. This is a fallacy of argument called the statistic of small numbers. In other words, just because someone can point to a few favorable outcomes, that says nothing about the overall chances of the whole.


 
*I think a lot of women on this board do a lot more than is necessary to 'grow' their hair. If they washed, conditioned, detangled, and braided their hair once a week, or once every two weeks, they would see growth and length retention. For whatever reason, they choose not to wear their hair braided or twisted up. *

*Lys*


----------



## AfroKink (Apr 10, 2008)

mwedzi said:


> Very eloquently put. And it bears noting that even orchids are wildflowers somewhere. When you try to grow them in an unnatural environment, e.g. your windowsill, they will require more care. Still beautiful, no one would argue, and those who grow them (like me  ) would definitely not consider the care required for them a curse. *But when they grow in their natural environment, they bloom without any artificial intervention,* any intervention, and any stress.


 
*Agreed *

*Lys*


----------



## nodisrespect (Apr 10, 2008)

Yeah... but having to wear your hair braided or twisted up frequently is an extra routine in and of itself. I hate to beat this to death, but do other races of women have to do this in order to have long hair? Isn't that the original point of this post... that black women HAVE to do more than just wash and go in order to have long hair? I'm sure many white women flat iron, blow dry, and style their hair to make it pretty... but they do not do those things in order to grow their hair.​


----------



## cmesweet (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Yeah... but having to wear your hair braided or twisted up frequently is an extra routine in and of itself. I hate to beat this to death, but do other races of women have to do this in order to have long hair? Isn't that the original point of this post... that black women HAVE to do more than just wash and go in order to have long hair? I'm sure many white women flat iron, blow dry, and style their hair to make it pretty... but they do not do those things in order to grow their hair.​


 
_ I don't see how braiding or twisting is an extra routine. When you braid or twist your hair it  usually stays for a week or more, depending on the person and their style.  After its braided, no one has to bother with it. _

_However, many of the people that others are mentioning do wash their hair everyday or every other day. Usually adding to this is flatiroing and blow drying. That seems like a lot more work to do daily than to just braid it up and call it a week._

As for me, I take my hair down once a week because I have very fine natural hair, which frizzes up within 2 days of braids. Nevertheless, the routine I use once a week was done another person's 5 day a week routine.

I do believe that SOME (not all) members on here, because of product junkism or desperationg is doing alot to their hair. Which in turn becomes counterproductive in some aspects. Of course, this are just my thoughts.


----------



## lala (Apr 10, 2008)

lilamae said:


> " *Girl, I don't know about no hot yoga! Hot yoga will have my hair lookin a hot mess*" ( everyone laughs as I stand there with a straight face) *They should invest in some Moisture Block...*
> 
> 
> The conversation continues and I nonchalantly observe. Then one of the olders ladies struck a nerve with her final statement as she left to the room..."*Hair...it's the black womans curse*" she said as she casually walked away.
> ...


 
I've never felt as if my hair was a curse...it's been a blessing . I've never experienced frustration with my hair because it's always been long, but I can understand your frustration. But I think when it comes to our textured hair, we have just been misinformed...not cursed.

Back in the day, we were never even considered beautiful, so IMO they didn't put a lot of research into products that will help with the manageability of our textured hair. There are some products that we're probably sleeping on due to advertising, availability, etc. For example, I've switched from my DE leave-in to a leave-in conditioner that's for blonde hair, but for whatever reason, it makes my hair super soft . Who knew?


----------



## nodisrespect (Apr 10, 2008)

> _ I don't see how braiding or twisting is an extra routine. When you braid or twist your hair it usually stays for a week or more, depending on the person and their style._


_

_No... you misunderstand me... braiding and twisting was brought up as a style for retaining length... which must be done in order to grow long hair... my question is, do women of other races have to do this to retain length?

If the answer is no, it qualifies as an extra routine, regardless of how much time it takes.


----------



## AfroKink (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Yeah... but having to wear your hair braided or twisted up frequently is an extra routine in and of itself. I hate to beat this to death, but do other races of women have to do this in order to have long hair? Isn't that the original point of this post... that black women HAVE to do more than just wash and go in order to have long hair? I'm sure many white women flat iron, blow dry, and style their hair to make it pretty... but they do not do those things in order to grow their hair.​


 
*A different routine doesn't necessarily mean "more work", or "extra".  Many white women feel the need to shampoo, condition, comb/bush (detangle), sometimes blow dry, and ponytail on a daily basis. That takes probably 10-15 mins. X 14 days = 2.3 - 3.5 hours.  which equals to an every two weeks wash, condition, detangle, and braid session for a black woman. *

*And some black women do grow their hair doing wash and gos on what they call a **bohemian** routine.*

*Lys*


----------



## AfroKink (Apr 10, 2008)

cmesweet said:


> _ I don't see how braiding or twisting is an extra routine. When you braid or twist your hair it usually stays for a week or more, depending on the person and their style. After its braided, no one has to bother with it. _
> 
> _However, many of the people that others are mentioning do wash their hair everyday or every other day. Usually adding to this is flatiroing and blow drying. That seems like a lot more work to do daily than to just braid it up and call it a week._
> 
> ...


 
*And my thoughts as well*

*Lys*


----------



## nodisrespect (Apr 10, 2008)

MissAlyssa said:


> *A different routine doesn't necessarily mean "more work", or "extra".  Many white women feel the need to shampoo, condition, comb/bush (detangle), sometimes blow dry, and ponytail on a daily basis. That takes probably 10-15 mins. X 14 days = 2.3 - 3.5 hours.  which equals to an every two weeks wash, condition, detangle, and braid session for a black woman. *
> 
> *And some black women do grow their hair doing wash and gos on what they call a **bohemian** routine.*
> 
> *Lys*




They may feel the need to... but do they have to? Will their hair suffer if they don't? I could say white women feel the need to wake up and leave out the house without combing a strand of hair on their head, but does that make it true for even one white women let alone the majority? And does that negate the fact that for many black women routines are necessary, not optional?

I think it's a little... ridiculous to claim that black women can do the same as white women and have the same results, for hair at least... but I can see your mind is set and nothing can make you budge... so about now is where I bow out...



> As for me, I take my hair down once a week because I have very fine natural hair, which frizzes up within 2 days of braids. Nevertheless, the routine I use once a week was done another person's 5 day a week routine.
> 
> I do believe that SOME (not all) members on here, because of product junkism or desperationg is doing alot to their hair. Which in turn becomes counterproductive in some aspects. Of course, this are just my thoughts.



Would it be fair o say that your hair is finer than most black women? This is a genetic thing with you that does not require you to do much to your hair, yeah?

I'm saying that it's the exact same thing as with white women. Genetically their hair is finer, so they do not have to do much to it. What is it that you are disagreeing with me about, may I ask?


----------



## AvaSpeaks (Apr 10, 2008)

I just want my hair to grow longer! I think that's what we all want right?

I mean personally, if our hair was so tangled and matted, but still could grow to our ***, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation 

I'm telling ya'll, it's not "how" our hair is that bothers most black women deep down inside, it's "how long". 

At least that's what I think. And some of that is based on the countless threads I have seen over the years on this board stating that they want "4a/4b hair down their back, unstretched"!


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## AfroKink (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> [/i]No... you misunderstand me... braiding and twisting was brought up as a style for retaining length... which must be done in order to grow long hair... my question is, do women of other races have to do this to retain length?
> 
> If the answer is no, it qualifies as an extra routine, regardless of how much time it takes.


 
*Twists are a style, which happens to be great for length retention.*

*That "messy bun" that a lot of white women wear, is a style, which happens to be great for length retention.*
*



*

*A different style for a different texture.  The simple haircare routine of white women allows them to retain length. Black women can also adopt a simple hair routine. A different routine doesn't mean extra. And honestly, white came from black.  Humans started with this kinky, coily, super curly hair. View black hair as the 'standard', then you'd wonder why white women are being extra with this wash and style EVERYDAY, when black women only have to do that once every two weeks.  Everyday seems more 'extra' to me...*

*Lys*


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## AfroKink (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> They may feel the need to... but do they have to? Will their hair suffer if they don't? I could say white women feel the need to wake up and leave out the house without combing a strand of hair on their head, but does that make it true for even one white women let alone the majority? And does that negate the fact that for many black women routines are necessary, not optional?
> 
> *I think it's a little... ridiculous to claim that black women can do the same as white women and have the same results,* for hair at least... but I can see your mind is set and nothing can make you budge... so about now is where I bow out...


 
*I think it's ridiculous too. Where did I say 'same'?erplexed*

*Lys*


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## nodisrespect (Apr 10, 2008)

MissAlyssa said:


> *Twists are a style, which happens to be great for length retention.*
> 
> *That "messy bun" that a lot of white women wear, is a style, which happens to be great for length retention.*
> *
> ...



I thought you just said white women do routines that take 2 and a half hours including daily blow drying which I think most can agree on would wreak havoc for black hair. Now they do protective styling to retain their length. Which is it? I was not aware that white women wear their hair in sloppy buns for a purpose, or that they consciously wear their hair like that in order to retain their length. Do you have a white friend that told you this?


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## lala (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> [/i]No... you misunderstand me... *braiding and twisting was brought up as a style for retaining length...* *which must be done in order to grow long hair... my question is, do women of other races have to do this to retain length*?
> 
> If the answer is no, it qualifies as an extra routine, regardless of how much time it takes.


 
For those of you who are struggling with your hair...I think you need to start a panel, and do a 3-6 mo. study to see if these styling practices actually work.  The panelists could keep a daily journal, measure, whatever, to see what works for them and what doesn't. I for one, have only had my hair braided once (never twisted), and I took them down that same day .


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## cmesweet (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Would it be fair o say that your hair is finer than most black women? This is a genetic thing with you that does not require you to do much to your hair, yeah?
> 
> I'm saying that it's the exact same thing as with white women. Genetically their hair is finer, so they do not have to do much to it. What is it that you are disagreeing with me about, may I ask?


 

Because of MY genetics, I actually have to do more with my hair. My hair frizzes up in 2 days, making my new hairstyle look 2 months old. Some naturals are the same, while other naturals can wear their braids or styles for 1 month and they never look frizzy like mine.

My point is, both sides have to work. I don't believe a specific group has it over the other. This is based on the forums I am a member of and hair discussions with people of various races. 

But this of course, will always be a debated discussion. 

_*off to another thread*_ this was great!


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## Lucie (Apr 10, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Uh huh. I have too many white friends.  I've had tons of white roommates, I've had retreats with white women, been in spas and sleepover with my white girlfriends. I had a chance to observe their haircare firsthand.
> 
> Most white women do NOT frequent long hair care boards, and are still able to grow hair that is significantly longer than ours. The average length for white and asian hair is longer than the average length for black hair. That's an unarguable fact.
> 
> ...


 
Nice to meet you Jessy55!!!! I was natural for 2 years and I had my hair in a puff every day all day. There were 3/4 occasions were I had cornrows and wore a wig for a special occasion but that was it.


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 10, 2008)

As another poster stated we don't HAVE to do alot to our hair, we CHOOSE to do alot to our hair. That's regardless of race or gender. Straight hair was not meant to be curled and curly hair was not meant to be straightened. Now if we choose to wear our hair in these styles then yes, it's going to take more work and it's nothing wrong with that. 
 Whether we braid, twist whatever that doesn't make our hair grow. Unless we have some type of illness or scalp issue that prevents it hair is going to grow. Everyone's hair grows at different rates regardless of race or gender. My hair grows about 1/4 to 1/3 in. per month some folks hair grows faster. But my hair grows. I don't twist or braid my hair and it grows. 
 People with looser texture hair tend not to have hair as dry as curly and kinky hair. Their hair retains moisture better in general because they produce more sebum(oil). Because 3 and 4 hair tends to be dryer it can suffer breakage if not properly moisturized and oiled (less sebum). Properly moisturized and oiled 3 and 4 hair grows just as long as 1 and 2 hair. 
 The products and tools that are geared for our haircare cause more damage than good. They are very drying and can permanently damage our hair regardless of race and gender. We(3"s and 4's) need to add moisture to our hair. It's not a curse it's just a fact. Our hair suffers when we don't.


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## LunadeMiel (Apr 10, 2008)

PrettyHaitian said:


> Nice to meet you Jessy55!!!! I was natural for 2 years and I had my hair in a puff every day all day. There were 3/4 occasions were I had cornrows and wore a wig for a special occasion but that was it.


 
althought I've only been natural for a two month..but I wear my hair in a puff/wash and go everyday and have absolutely no problem with growth, retention, and tangles.  I just wash my hair and let it be.  Women in my family are not big on doing a lot of things to their hair and most of them have/had long hair.  The more you do to your hair the harder it will be to maintain.  As my hair gets longer, I'm going to maintain the same regimen except I may wear it in a pony once in a while.  Otherwise, I'm going to let it do what it do...


----------



## AfroKink (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> I thought you just said white women do routines that take 2 and a half hours including daily blow drying which I think most can agree on would wreak havoc for black hair. Now they do protective styling to retain their length. Which is it? I was not aware that white women wear their hair in sloppy buns for a purpose, or that they consciously wear their hair like that in order to retain their length. Do you have a white friend that told you this?


 
*No and no.*

*I said white women have a daily haircare routine that takes 10-15mins.  It generally includes shampooing, condtioning, brush/combing (detangling), blowdry/airdry, then style.  The styling generally takes 1 of 3 forms, its pony tail, messy bun, or down. The first two are what people on hair care boards would call 'protective styling'.  I do not think the average white women puts her hair into a messy bun with the intention of protecting her ends etc to retain length.  I think this is just the style she chooses because she likes it.*

*Then I said you can take that same 10-15mins and multiply it by the number of times it would be done in a 2 week span (10min X 14 days = 2.33 hours, 15min X 14 days = 3.5 hours). So a white woman spends 2.33-3.5 hours on her hair every 2 weeks.*

*I then proposed that black women can and do achieve something similar (similar, not same) in the same time span (2.33-3.5 hours).  Black women can spend 2.33-3.5 hours one day, every 2 weeks, shampooing, conditioning, detangling, and twisting/braiding.  On the hair boards, we call the twisting and braiding 'protective styling'. As I said earlier in this thread, in the Caribbean, at least in Barbados and St. Lucia, I see naturals with long hair who have this routine.  They wash and twist/braid their hair once every two weeks. They don't do this with the mentality that this is what they have to do to protect their ends and retain length.  They, like the white women with the messy bun, choose this style because they like it. *

*The messy bun style is more suited to straight hair. The twisting is more suited to kinky, coily hair.  Both black and white women allot about the same amount of time to their hair. One breaks up that time and uses it daily.  The other compounds the time and uses it up all at once.  Each are doing a similar wash/condition/detangle/style.  Both will retain length. *

*Furthermore, the notion that if black women are not doing the exact same thing as white woman, they are being extra. So I provided a link that shows several black women growing their hair with simple wash and gos and no subsequent styling.  I also went on to say that since white came from black, the hair up keep that women have to do on a daily basis can be seen as extra.  I will now add that I don't know what happens when a white person does not wash their hair on a daily or every other day routine... I've never met a white person that doesn't do this.*

*I hope I was more clear this time. *

*Lys*


----------



## Lucie (Apr 10, 2008)

fabiennd said:


> althought I've only been natural for a two month..but I wear my hair in a puff/wash and go everyday and have absolutely no problem with growth, retention, and tangles. I just wash my hair and let it be. Women in my family are not big on doing a lot of things to their hair and most of them have/had long hair. The more you do to your hair the harder it will be to maintain. As my hair gets longer, I'm going to maintain the same regimen except I may wear it in a pony once in a while. Otherwise, I'm going to let it do what it do...


 
Are we related? I really need to find out.  

The women in my family kept it simple all the time and still do. The only women in my family with short hair, do so by choice. I used CW my hair twice a day when I was natural. It was great running outside of a downpour with no umbrella, or driving my convertible with the top down and no scarf on my head.  

The only thing I hated is watching the internal struggle some people went through not to touch my hair. I could tell some wished I would ask them if they wanted to touch it. It's not a puppy!!!!!


----------



## cocoberry10 (Apr 10, 2008)

bravenewgirl87 said:


> *I agree with everything else you've said, but we are the leaders in hypertension, diabetes, and a slew of health problems related to poor diet and exercise. There's no way that we can be healthier (in a current state) than white people with the health problems that affect that black community. They might not eat their veggies, but on a whole, they are not dropping dead as quickly as we do.*


 
Oh no girl, I know exactly what you mean. Black people as a whole definitely need to take better care of themselves healthwise. I guess with respect to hair, I don't think dieting ALONE will guarantee long, healthy hair due to our textures. Even a vegan won't have WSL hair, if they don't know how to take proper care of it!


----------



## AfroKink (Apr 10, 2008)

cmesweet said:


> Because of MY genetics, I actually have to do more with my hair. My hair frizzes up in 2 days, making my new hairstyle look 2 months old. Some naturals are the same, while other naturals can wear their braids or styles for 1 month and they never look frizzy like mine.
> 
> My point is, both sides have to work. I don't believe a specific group has it over the other. This is based on the forums I am a member of and hair discussions with people of various races.
> 
> ...


 
*Wait for me!*

*Lys*


----------



## LunadeMiel (Apr 10, 2008)

PrettyHaitian said:


> *Are we related? I really need to find out.*
> 
> The women in my family kept it simple all the time and still do. The only women in my family with short hair, do so by choice. I used CW my hair twice a day when I was natural. It was great running outside of a downpour with no umbrella, or driving my convertible with the top down and no scarf on my head.
> 
> The only thing I hated is watching the internal struggle some people went through not to touch my hair. I could tell some wished I would ask them if they wanted to touch it. It's not a puppy!!!!!


 
This is definitely a possibility....both of my grandfathers were major whores... also, my family is from the south.

I really don't understand this whole issue about our hair being difficult to handle.  I grew up around women with all different hair types.  Not once did I ever hear one of them say that their hair is hard to manage.  The only time that my hair became hard to manage was when I decided to relax it and not care for it properly.  I have an aunt with the thickest most beautifyul hair that I've ever seen.  Do you know what she uses to wash her hair? Soap, and absolutely no conditioner.  After she washes it she applies come Haitian castor oil and she either pulls it back into a ponytail or one long braid.   My grandmother who has also been natural all of her life has never complained about her hair.  I really can't uderstand where all of these issues are coming from...erplexed


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> [/i]No... you misunderstand me... *braiding and twisting was brought up as a style for retaining length... which must be done in order to grow long hair.*.. my question is, do women of other races have to do this to retain length?
> 
> If the answer is no, it qualifies as an extra routine, regardless of how much time it takes.






MissAlyssa said:


> *A different routine doesn't necessarily mean "more work", or "extra".  Many white women feel the need to shampoo, condition, comb/bush (detangle), sometimes blow dry, and ponytail on a daily basis. That takes probably 10-15 mins. X 14 days = 2.3 - 3.5 hours.  which equals to an every two weeks wash, condition, detangle, and braid session for a black woman. *
> 
> *And some black women do grow their hair doing wash and gos on what they call a **bohemian** routine.*
> 
> *Lys*



I agree with nodisrespect. Let me see how I can explain this:

Non-black women who shampoo, condition, comb/brush, blowdry  do so FOR STYLISTIC REASONS ONLY, NOT AT ALL IN ORDER TO RETAIN HAIR.  So we cannot compare the motivation and purpose.  Plus, most of the ones I know that do all that STILL retain hair well into BSL and waistlength. How many of us could say the same? For real?  To be stuck in 1 style (Braids, twists, cornrows, buns, etc) for days at a time in order to retain length, does that really prove the point people are trying to make that it is easy for us to retain length? Even the relaxed heads, if they did that daily routine of shampoo, blowdry and flatiron, that many non-blacks do, how many of them would have hair past shoulder or even APL?  Okay, there's always going to be a few exceptions saying _Oh, I did,_ but that does not disprove that the *majority of relaxed heads would not retain much hair at all. 
*
Lemme tell you, if it was so easy for our natural hair to grow by just wearing it in afro and puffs daily after washing, IF THAT'S ALL IT TOOK FOR US TO GROW HAIR, we wouldn't have the need for hair sites just as this (including Nappturality). We wouldn't have thousand of posts by women asking what to do with their hair.  I am quite surprised to read in this thread posts from women who have in the past posted their frustrations about their hair, complaining it wasn't growing, it was tangling too much, it was too dry, blah, blah, blah and asking for advice.   How soon one forgets...


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 10, 2008)

No offense, but I do see a lot of people saying that they can wear their hair in afro or puffs everyday and still grow BSL or longer hair, but I go into their fotki and look at their hair texture and so far, their understanding of what constitutes 4 a/b hair doesn't match mine.   I don't want to start a texture war, so looks like I will definitely have to create a new category for my hair type. From now on, I will refer to it as 5 a/b.


----------



## *Happily Me* (Apr 10, 2008)

Jessy, I can't see your pics 

I haven't seen your hair in a longggg time and i'm dying


----------



## Ms.Honey (Apr 10, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> No offense, but I do see a lot of people saying that they can wear their hair in afro or puffs everyday and still grow BSL or longer hair, but I go into their fotki and look at their hair texture and so far, their understanding of what constitutes 4 a/b hair doesn't match mine.  I don't want to start a texture war, so looks like I will definitely have to create a new category for my hair type. From now on, I will refer to it as 5 a/b.


 
I have a girlfriend who's been claiming a 5 for quite some time now. You know you've started something right Andre's system does seem to be lacking in certain areas


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 10, 2008)

DSylla said:


> Jessy, I can't see your pics
> 
> I haven't seen your hair in a longggg time and i'm dying



What do you mean?  Everyone else can see them. Do you have a picture block on your computer?


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 10, 2008)

MSHONEY said:


> I have a girlfriend who's been claiming a 5 for quite some time now. You know you've started something right Andre's system does seem to be lacking in certain areas



You know what, I remember last year someone posted a link to this new website for women with hair that would qualify as 5a/b or 4z. They were saying that this type of hair can be frustrating and required its own particular haircare in order for it to thrive. I wish I had bookmarked that link. If anyone has that link, thank you in advance for posting it.


----------



## Mitre (Apr 10, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I'm in South FL so I see it all day. I think it's important to note that there are alot of Black women with waist length hair it's just that here in the states because of the poor haircare practices used for years in our country on "afro-textured" hair it's become harder to achieve - that and the products and hard water we have to deal with.
> 
> Ethiopean, Dominican, Trinidad, Jamaica, the Virgin Islands, and Aborigines of Australia are all very dark peoples =Black with natural un-processed hair ranging from 3b-4c textures, that hangs far below brastrap (and it's not uncommon). And most of them don't protective style because they're unfamiliar with the term.


 
All Trinidadian people are not dark, cause Im not... We range from Chinese, European, Indian to African etc....Majority being Indian and African... and a lot of mixed breeds....and yes some Afro-Caribbean people DO have problems with their hair...
Here is a link, you can see what Trinidadians look like
http://www.triniscene.com/tsv6/photos/index.php?p=3692


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Would it be fair o say that your hair is finer than most black women? This is a genetic thing with you that does not require you to do much to your hair, yeah?
> 
> I'm saying that it's the exact same thing as with white women. Genetically their hair is finer, so they do not have to do much to it. What is it that you are disagreeing with me about, may I ask?



from what i've seen, anyone (black, white, hispanic or WHATEVER) with fine hair as problems growing it because fine hair itself is WEAKER.

or by "fine" do you really mean "not coarse?"


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 10, 2008)

MissAlyssa said:


> *No and no.*
> 
> *I said white women have a daily haircare routine that takes 10-15mins.  It generally includes shampooing, condtioning, brush/combing (detangling), blowdry/airdry, then style.*


*

what long-haired white woman do you know can blowdry her hair in less than 15 minutes?  cause i've LIVED with white women and i've NEVER seen this...*


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 10, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> No offense, but I do see a lot of people saying that they can wear their hair in afro or puffs everyday and still grow BSL or longer hair, but I go into their fotki and look at their hair texture and so far, their understanding of what constitutes 4 a/b hair doesn't match mine.   I don't want to start a texture war, so looks like I will definitely have to create a new category for my hair type. From now on, I will refer to it as 5 a/b.



that's why i stick to the LOIS system.  it's more descriptive.  i'm a thick-haired OS thready with thick strands.  see, you already get a much better picture of my hair if i say that than, "oh, i'm a 4a" which can be anything from pencil-sized coils to penspring-sized coils... and you don't know how thick my hair is or how thick my hair strands are if i just say "4a."


----------



## Mitre (Apr 10, 2008)

MissAlyssa said:


> *I'd have to disagree with that in the case of Afro-Caribbeans at least. They don't call it protective styling, but naturals (in the type 4 range) in the Caribbean generally wear their hair in combos of cornrows, twists, and braids. In North America, naturals (in the type 4 range) seem more likely to sport afros, puffs, twist outs. *
> 
> *Lys*


 
ITA..In Trinidad,,we do wear cornrows,twists, braids, lock,relaxers...press hair...you name it...my mum has 2c/3a hair...and she was telling me stories of her pressing her hair with a hotcomb on da stove....and yes Afro-Caribbeans have the same problems as Afro-Americans in regards to haircare....


----------



## *Happily Me* (Apr 10, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> What do you mean? Everyone else can see them. Do you have a picture block on your computer?


 
nope

I've tried IE and Firefox.  i'll figure this out


----------



## cupcakes (Apr 10, 2008)

i feel the same way everytime i see those white, spanish or indian chicks with pantene prov hair erplexed


----------



## Lucie (Apr 10, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> what long-haired white woman do you know can blowdry her hair in less than 15 minutes? cause i've LIVED with white women and i've NEVER seen this...


 
What you lived with doesn't make it the rule. One of my very close friends with WL hair blowdrys her hair in 15-20 minutes.


----------



## BeetleBug (Apr 10, 2008)

Why all the doubt now?


----------



## nodisrespect (Apr 10, 2008)

That's why I ran up out this thread... too much "I've seen this/my hair does this, so that makes my opinion true universally."


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 10, 2008)

PrettyHaitian said:


> What you lived with doesn't make it the rule. One of my very close friends with WL hair blowdrys her hair in 15-20 minutes.



does she have thin hair or thick hair?  i just can't wrap my mind around this at all...

and i've lived with more than ONE white girl.  shoot, one of the white girls i lived with couldn't grow her hair longer than SL but that makes her the exception and not the rule.


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> That's why I ran up out this thread... too much "I've seen this/my hair does this, so that makes my opinion true universally."



you're right.  we need to set up a few studies so we have some scientific facts.


----------



## DragonPearl (Apr 10, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> you're right.  we need to set up a few studies so we have some scientific facts.



Actually, this board can provide us with a lot of scientific facts. Just tabulate how many "I made SL/APL/BSL/WL" announcements we get, and see how many of those just wore fro or puffs and did NOT do protective styles like buns/braids/twists/phonypony/weaves/cornrow, how many DID blow dry or flatiron their hair everyday like our non-black counterparts, how many just washed and let their hair hang. The mean average should tell us something.


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Apr 10, 2008)

I have thick APL hair and can blow dry my whole head from damp to completely dry on average in 8 minutes. Its ALL in your technique. I adjust the heat based on the section I am blow out. 

So white/black, BlowDrying isnt a big deal.....


----------



## jada1111 (Apr 10, 2008)

lilamae said:


> I was sitting on a cheap sofa in the Ikea store with my legs crossed determining the comfort and quality of my prospective new purchase when I was struck by the length  (waist) and curls on this white girls head. I was like "ooh, I can't wait".. then seconds later, another just-past midback passes by, then a hip bone length and then another waist length!
> 
> One by one they passed me by with nice heads of hair I was nearly certain they took for granted.
> 
> ...



Awww, I wish I could find a "hugs" smilie for you.

The fact is our hair is different and it's not a bad thing.  I'm not trying to grow my hair waistlength, so I can't feel your pain.  I am trying to grow it longer than it is, but unlike you, I want my hair to grow OUT not down.  I want it to be a super huge cloud.  My major issue is shrinkage, but stretched out my hair touches my goes past my shoulders.

If you keep doing what you're doing, hopefully your hair will be the length you want within a couple of years.


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 10, 2008)

Mitre said:


> All Trinidadian people are not dark, cause Im not... We range from Chinese, European, Indian to African etc....Majority being Indian and African... and a lot of mixed breeds....and yes some Afro-Caribbean people DO have problems with their hair...
> Here is a link, you can see what Trinidadians look like
> http://www.triniscene.com/tsv6/photos/index.php?p=3692


 

Sweetie, I'm trini so I think I know what Trini's look like - I look in the mirror quite often.  My family is Tamil (often referred to as Madras in Trinidad) and African.  I think you need to refer your link to somebody else.


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 10, 2008)

Mitre said:


> ITA..In Trinidad,,we do wear cornrows,twists, braids, lock,relaxers...press hair...you name it...my mum has 2c/3a hair...and she was telling me stories of her pressing her hair with a hotcomb on da stove....and yes Afro-Caribbeans have the same problems as Afro-Americans in regards to haircare....


 
I didn't say we don't I said we don't *have to, all the time!!* erplexed


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> That's why I ran up out this thread... too much "I've seen this/my hair does this, so that makes my opinion true universally."


 
I think I need to run out too then because it's getting to borderline ridiculous.


----------



## Mitre (Apr 10, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> Sweetie, I'm trini so I think I know what Trini's look like - I look in the mirror quite often. My family is Tamil (often referred to as Madras in Trinidad) and African. I think you need to refer your link to somebody else.


 
Re-read your post...you said they are dark people...you should have said some are....


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 10, 2008)

Mitre said:


> Re-read your post...you said they are dark people...you should have said some are....


 

I'm Cinnamon Brown I consider myself to be dark.  Anyone not cafe au lat is dark to me but that's my point of view, everyone has one.  I clicked your link and most of the girls in the photos are my complexion.  Dark.


----------



## Mitre (Apr 10, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I didn't say we don't I said we don't *have to, all the time!!* erplexed


 
In my experience, yes people with 4a/4b in Trinidad keep their hair in braids,buns,twists..etc...all the time....I havent seen anyone with fros etc...except in old 70s photos


----------



## Mitre (Apr 10, 2008)

trini_rican said:


> I'm Cinnamon Brown I consider myself to be dark. Anyone not cafe au lat is dark to me but that's my point of view, everyone has one. I clicked your link and most of the girls in the photos are my complexion. Dark.


 
Ok, I get your point of view....but my point is that some Afro-Caribbean have the same hair problems as their American ancestors....


----------



## cocoberry10 (Apr 10, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> No offense, but I do see a lot of people saying that they can wear their hair in afro or puffs everyday and still grow BSL or longer hair, but I go into their fotki and look at their hair texture and so far, their understanding of what constitutes 4 a/b hair doesn't match mine.  I don't want to start a texture war, so looks like I will definitely have to create a new category for my hair type. From now on, I will refer to it as 5 a/b.


 
 I think you are right. Actually this has been addressed before. I do think there are textures beyond "4b"


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 10, 2008)

Mitre said:


> In my experience, yes people with 4a/4b in Trinidad keep their hair in braids,buns,twists..etc...all the time....I havent seen anyone with fros etc...except in old 70s photos


 
I'm sorry I don't recall saying anything about a fro.


----------



## trini_rican (Apr 10, 2008)

Mitre said:


> Ok, I get your point of view....but my point is that some Afro-Caribbean have the same hair problems as their American ancestors....


 
They have the same moisture issues correct.  The point I was trying to make is that Carribean women grow their hair long all the time.  BSL and beyond.  I'm not saying that it's not thick, dry or difficult to style I was saying that we can grow 4a-c hair to long lengths without all the extras because Island girls do it all the time.  And by extras I meant using growth aids and using protective styles 100% of the time. I apologize perhaps I should have been my explicative in my previous post.


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 10, 2008)

Jessy55 said:


> Actually, this board can provide us with a lot of scientific facts. Just tabulate how many "I made SL/APL/BSL/WL" announcements we get, and see how many of those just wore fro or puffs and did NOT do protective styles like buns/braids/twists/phonypony/weaves/cornrow, how many DID blow dry or flatiron their hair everyday like our non-black counterparts, how many just washed and let their hair hang. The mean average should tell us something.



very true!  but i meant for the white people... i should've been more clear


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 10, 2008)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I have thick APL hair and can blow dry my whole head from damp to completely dry on average in 8 minutes. Its ALL in your technique. I adjust the heat based on the section I am blow out.
> 
> So white/black, BlowDrying isnt a big deal.....



impressive!  i never used to be able to dry my thick SL relaxed hair in less than 15, and this is back when i turned every heat appliance on full blast, LOL


----------



## scribblescrabble2 (Apr 10, 2008)

I can't see Jessy55's photos either.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Yeah... but having to wear your hair braided or twisted up frequently is an extra routine in and of itself. I hate to beat this to death, but do other races of women have to do this in order to have long hair? Isn't that the original point of this post... that black women HAVE to do more than just wash and go in order to have long hair? I'm sure many white women flat iron, blow dry, and style their hair to make it pretty... but they do not do those things in order to grow their hair.​


I don't have to braid it or twist it up frequently to make my hair grow.


----------



## nodisrespect (Apr 10, 2008)

Do you speak for black women in general, or just yourself, Poohbear?


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't understand this comment. Ok, that's you. Does this negate the vast majority of women on this board that DO have stick to strict routines in order to successfully grow their hair? I'm getting like gymfreak over here, fascinated by other people's deductive skills. This is a fallacy of argument called the statistic of small numbers. In other words, just because someone can point to a few favorable outcomes, that says nothing about the overall chances of the whole.


You don't understand my comment, why not?  And the vast majority of Black women DO NOT have to stick to strict routines to grow long hair.  Maybe some, but not the vast majority.  Some do all that strict stuff and still don't grow long hair. No one and I mean NO ONE can say what the vast majority of Black women has to do with their hair in order to grow and retain length.  Just like I can say I don't have to do much to my hair to make it grow, you can't say that the majority of Black women have problems growing their hair, some do and some don't, you can't say the vast majority.


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Do you speak for black women in general, or just yourself, Poohbear?


I'm just speaking for myself, I'm a Black woman so I am included into the Black woman group and I'm also speaking for some other Black women. I can't speak for ALL or MOST Black women in general.  Saying that the vast majority of Black women have to stick to a strict long enduring routine to grow hair is just not true. Check out the Features of the Month.


----------



## nodisrespect (Apr 10, 2008)

Ah, I'm glad to see you were the one I mentioned the fallacies of argument to, because I was just about to bring it up again  As far as a "regular routine", your definition of "routine" might be different from mine, which is why I was commenting on you saying you don't have to do "much" to grow your hair - that's not the same as a routine. As far as I know, not doing "much" could mean nothing further than wash and go, like looser patterns of hair only have to do. In my opinion, a routine is anything other than shampooing and deep conditioning. I also did not use the words "long" or "enduring", which cannot be counted as synonymous with "strict", nor did I say anything about the "vast" majority, simply because the "vast" majority of black women do not have long hair.

*tiptoes back out of thread*


----------



## blasiancurlie (Apr 10, 2008)

ITA. I'm transitioning right now but in middle school and high school i would stretch my relaxer to 3-5 months. i wore my hair out (wash-n-go) *everyday* and grew from SL to BSL in 3 years.  i also did it again in college. i cut my hair to NL freshman year and was past APL by junior year....and this is WITH heat - blowdrying, flatironing, and curling.  NO PROTECTIVE STYLES.

ETA: I'm also all about simple and believe hair can grow without strict routines. Like fabiennd said, let your hair do what it do and it'll grow. I'm sure my hair may have grew faster without all the damage, but it still grew regardless. The only thing really unhealthy about my hair was that I had split ends but I would just trim them.  I'm really not on LHCF to learn strict routines/regimens, I just want to learn more about transitioning! And get support while I transition!



fabiennd said:


> althought I've only been natural for a two month..but I wear my hair in a puff/wash and go everyday and have absolutely no problem with growth, retention, and tangles. I just wash my hair and let it be. Women in my family are not big on doing a lot of things to their hair and most of them have/had long hair. The more you do to your hair the harder it will be to maintain. As my hair gets longer, I'm going to maintain the same regimen except I may wear it in a pony once in a while. Otherwise, I'm going to let it do what it do...


----------



## Poohbear (Apr 10, 2008)

nodisrespect said:


> Ah, I'm glad to see you were the one I mentioned the fallacies of argument to, because I was just about to bring it up again  As far as a "regular routine", your definition of "routine" might be different from mine, which is why I was commenting on you saying you don't have to do "much" to grow your hair - that's not the same as a routine. As far as I know, not doing "much" could mean nothing further than wash and go, like looser patterns of hair only have to do. In my opinion, a routine is anything other than shampooing and deep conditioning. I also did not use the words "long" or "enduring", which cannot be counted as synonymous with "strict", nor did I say anything about the "vast" majority, simply because the "vast" majority of black women do not have long hair.
> 
> *tiptoes back out of thread*


I didn't say you said all those things, those were MY words...I was just stating my viewpoint.

However, you did mention "vast majority of Black women" in your post.

I'm done.


----------



## crazydaze911 (Apr 10, 2008)

lilamae said:


> I was sitting on a cheap sofa in the Ikea store with my legs crossed determining the comfort and quality of my prospective new purchase when I was struck by the length  (waist) and curls on this white girls head. I was like "ooh, I can't wait".. then seconds later, another just-past midback passes by, then a hip bone length and then another waist length!
> 
> One by one they passed me by with nice heads of hair I was nearly certain they took for granted.
> 
> ...



im not gonna agree or disagree here b/c i really have issues with hair envy sometimes .  I will just plainly say - every hair type has its pros and cons.  i just think that K.I.S.S works 10x better with OTHER hair types in my opinion.  My boyfriend is hispanic and EVERY WOMAN in his family and extended family has long 'nice looking' hair (not sure how healthy) while using the WORST hair practices ever.  Maybe its genes, but i see this in other women as well.  Trying not to be a hater, but i just had to say that! .    i love having you guys to keep things positive or else i'd go nuts


----------



## Monigirl (Apr 10, 2008)

Lilamae I forgot to say something...... the white women you saw that day might of been registered with the *Extension101 Forum*. It is a hair care forum teaching white women how to put in extensions, with tutorials, and different techniques helping them achieve long length in seconds. http://hairextensions101.com/forum

I learned allot from this forum on how to attach weave hair.

Pics of some members from the site and weave installation pics:


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 10, 2008)

^^^  

we forgot them white girls front too!!! *tee hee*


----------



## Ms.Honey (Apr 10, 2008)

Ahh. Yes. "One of them white girls" is one of my girlfriends. I believe she spends about 2hrs. a day on her hair. It's not just black girls. The belief that Black women have more hair issues than other women and other women have super simple routines is a stereotype.


----------



## Mystic (Apr 10, 2008)

Damn, why can't I find weaves that blend so nicely and look real?


----------



## ladylibra (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^i heard somewhere that they make weave that actually looks like relaxed 4a/4b hair.  as in, not super-straight-super-shiny-super-fake.  i don't know how pricey it is though erplexed but for those of us who like realistic weave, i thought it was brilliant.  i'm not above telling people when i'm wearing fake hair but that doesn't mean i want it to LOOK fake if YKWIM...


----------



## Ms.Honey (Apr 11, 2008)

ladylibra said:


> ^^^i heard somewhere that they make weave that actually looks like relaxed 4a/4b hair. as in, not super-straight-super-shiny-super-fake. i don't know how pricey it is though erplexed but for those of us who like realistic weave, i thought it was brilliant. i'm not above telling people when i'm wearing fake hair but that doesn't mean i want it to LOOK fake if YKWIM...


 
 exactly www.mymaneattractions.com sells hair called Indian radiant relaxed that matches 3's relaxed hair and Asian radiant relaxed that matches 4's perfectly


----------



## Afro-Indi (Apr 11, 2008)

This is a long @$$ thread and forgive me for not reading it all but a few parts of 1 particular quote threw me off and I have some questions. 



Monigirl said:


> ....... I know how you feel I have hair frustration too. I wish relaxed black hair care never envolved chemical burn, underprocessing and breakage, reversion, etc...
> And I wish I knew more about my natural texture. And was born into a society were more black women wore their natural hair and achieved long lengths with it. Dang it!!!
> 
> *As a black woman I feel Hyperpigmentation has been a curse for me more than anytihng else.* Personally I have spent more money on skin care then hair care in my life.


The scary part is, I didn't even bold this quoteerplexed

Firstly, there *are *black women who wear their hair natural and *DO* achieve long lengths with it; I'm sure you've seen many of them here; if not look around.

"_Hyperpigmentation?!?!?!?!!?"_
That term in and of itself suggests that there is some perfect or happy medium of skin color that would be considered 'normal'.

Are you speaking of uneven skin tone contrast with regard to something such as vitiligo or do you mean general dark-skinnedness?

"_Hyperpigmentation_".....like it's a disease or something. 
I'm sorry you feel it's a curse.
However, I shouldn't assume your stance on that since I haven't read the whole thread to see if someone else asked you the same question.

Anyway, here are some very positive videos specifically showcasing some of the most beautiful, darkest dark-skinned people you'll ever see.

Black Faces Pt. 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTYN8D-n68Y

Black Faces Pt. 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTXPglptcJQ&feature=related

Black Faces Pt. 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcGHpIh08IA&feature=related

ffrant:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry for getting OTerplexed


----------



## Rei (Apr 11, 2008)

_"Hyperpigmentation?!?!?!?!!?"
That term in and of itself suggests that there is some perfect or happy medium of skin color that would be considered 'normal'.

Are you speaking of uneven skin tone contrast with regard to something such as vitiligo or do you mean general dark-skinnedness?

"Hyperpigmentation".....like it's a disease or something. 
I'm sorry you feel it's a curse.
However, I shouldn't assume your stance on that since I haven't read the whole thread to see if someone else asked you the same question.

Anyway, here are some very positive videos specifically showcasing some of the most beautiful, darkest dark-skinned people you'll ever see.

Black Faces Pt. 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTYN8D-n68Y

Black Faces Pt. 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTXPglptcJQ&feature=related

Black Faces Pt. 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcGHpIh08IA&feature=related

ffrant:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry for getting OTerplexed[/QUOTE]_

uh...i think she just meant when you get spots on your face that are significantly darker than the rest of your complexion...its related to sun exposure and acne. I don't think she's making a commentary on how wrong it is to be darkskinned, just emphasizing that it is better to have clear skin, no matter what shade of brown you are.


----------



## Rei (Apr 11, 2008)

wow, people are getting really defensive on this thread...
and coming away from the OP's original point in that sometimes it seems that white people gain length faster, or retain more length, or whatever you like to call it. I'm not sure why this is even being debated as untrue. sure, it could be that its because a lot of black women don't know the proper way to take care of their hair, relaxers etc etc. but the fact is, that, and this this is true for me, not sure if this is true for the rest of you guys, that most of the black women i see walking down the street are like 90% shoulderlength, and maybe 10% longer, but never past bra-strap. Considering that I also see 90% of the white girls in my town with bra-strap at the least, or longer hair, that does lend some credibility to thinking that they do retain more length. And since every time i speak to a white girl about what i do to MY hair, they're amazed at the amount of effort it takes, also lends some credibility to the opinion that they retain length easily. even a lot of the women i see on the lhc are struggling to grow their hair to amazing lengths, not many are struggling for APL like i am
it doesn't mean that black women are inferior, or anything, so i'm not sure where all this anger is coming from... i'm sorry but no one will convince me that my hair will ever be able to grow and retain length as fast as some of my asian friends 

i've even had people of other races ask me why "all" black women always keep their hair so short all the time. I was tempted to give them this site, but the truth is, what they see most of the time is the same chewed up, see through ends havin-shoulder length relaxer junkies walking the streets. *shrugs*

I've accepted that my hair requires more work than other people may have to put into it, although sometimes it does make me irritated.


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## Monigirl (Apr 11, 2008)

*Afro-Indi *I wish you would of read the whole thread before you made a comment. A whole lot of drama could be avoided if people would take the time to read first instead of assuming the wrong thing and rant.  *Can I get an Amen!!*!
I know many black women on here achieve great beautiful length with natural hair. You are the only one that took my statement wrong..I have been apart of LHCF since 2005 and *it is odvious I have looked around *and see beautiful naturals and various lengths!
I stated "*I wish I was born into a household and society were more black women wore their natural hair and achieved long lengths*." You have got to admit more black women in America wear their hair relaxed or born into a household that applys relaxers because it is the norm.   
In a nutshell I was saying I wish relaxers never exsited and that *all *black women wore their natural texture so that *curly fros and coils would the norm amongst us instead of straight looks*. Next time you read someones quote before you jump ask a simple question or pm them.





*Here is my response reposted*: Just in my life I have experienced more delimas with my skin than my hair (acne, cyst, blemishes). *I feel hair makes a woman beautiful weither it be long, short, or medium but a womans skin is what trully makes her beautiful.* Personnaly I get more jealous when I meet or see women with youthful beautiful blemishes free skin tone... may I add without wearing makeup. That is why I am planing to a do a master cleanse or detox soon in the efforts to improve my skin complexion.

OT: 
Hyperpigmentation is something all races deal with espically women of color and women in my family. I personally have minor hyperpigmentation on my face in a few areas. Hyperpigmentation is when your skin heals darker than the original shade after you get a scar or pimple or experience trama. In a nutshel is it a blemish or mark that heals darker than your original skin tone. I will be going to school soon to study skin and beauty procedures to help myself and other achieve flawless youthful complexions.

No I am not refering to the overall color of my skin....I love my beautiful brown skin color that God has given me and would not want any other. I just want clear skin.  

Here are some pics of black women dealing with hyperpigmentation and got chemical peel treatments. 






Before:






After:
After
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









Afro-Indi said:


> This is a long @$$ thread and forgive me for not reading it all but a few parts of 1 particular quote threw me off and I have some questions.
> 
> 
> The scary part is, I didn't even bold this quoteerplexed
> ...


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## Monigirl (Apr 11, 2008)

Rei said:


> *uh...i think she just meant when you get spots on your face that are significantly darker than the rest of your complexion...its related to sun exposure and acne. I don't think she's making a commentary on how wrong it is to be darkskinned, just emphasizing that it is better to have clear skin, no matter what shade of brown you are*.


 
*Correct!!!*  
Thank you Rei


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## didirose (Apr 11, 2008)

*The sad fact is too many black women are abusing relaxers and heat.*

If you study any time period, *prior to *the overuse of relaxers followed by excessive heat, you are bound to find an increase in hair health and length amongst black women.  Just imagine streching out the hair that people used to rock in the 1970s, for just one examp!

Many of us have experienced this particular scenario:

1.  Use excess heat with relaxed hair >>>>> breakage (overuse of heat)
2.  Relaxing at sign of first kink >>>>> breakage (overuse of relaxers)

It's time for us to stop thinking that all black women are cursed with the hair deficiency gene.  We have black *men* who are growing full heads of hair and the reasons why are simple.  They keep it simple!

I am by no means saying never to use heat or relaxers because I use them myself, but I really think the reason why I retain longer hair is because I use them properly.  For the record, I have been texlaxing (on purpose) for 3 years, I have always stretched (relaxing or texlaxing every 3-5 months), and I have learned to use heat minimally (only for special occasions). 

White people have their own issues with hair and some of them (the curlies) share in our hair issues.  Interesting enough, those born with a certain hair color (one examp - "mousey" brown) feel like they must change it.  Many of them color their hair so much they don't even recall its original color!  The same way some of us relax so much we don't recall our real hair texture.  Call it a thing of beauty or assimilation or whatever we all have our hair issues so it's not worth it to dwell too much on the other's hair.

(soapbox moment done)


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## Starr1 (Apr 11, 2008)

I just finished reading this thread and I'm a bit surprised at some the comments and misconceptions and I feel the need to address some of them. 

First of all, yes black women's hair has different NEEDS. But then again all naturally curly hair types have different needs than naturally straight hair, regardless of race. Just because those needs are different, doesn't make them any more time consuming than the needs of others. For example, a hispanic friend of mine has naturally straight hair the same length as mine and spends twice as much time as I do detangling. Why? Because her hair is so fine that it tangles up if she even looks at it wrong, even when it's braided, so for her it's an everyday chore. I can get away with detangling once or twice a week. Individual routines will vary based on individual needs. Think about it, just because some else has the same hair type as you, doesn't mean their routine will work for you. Different is not neither good, nor bad. It is just different. 

Second, unusually long hair has different needs. Period. Nobody of any race gets super long and _*HEALTHY*_ hair past their butt without proper hair care. Not even Indians.

Third, contrary to popular belief, all white women do not grow hair effortlessly. There are plenty of white women who have weaves (it's just harder to tell because they tend to have better texture match up), or who can not grow their hair past shoulder length, or who have dry hair (not all of them have movable sebum), or who have hair so fine that it continually breaks, or who have super stringy/oily hair, or who have slow growth, etc. We just tend to notice and focus on the ones who have nicer, thick, long hair. Of course you're going to see more white women (or women of other races for that matter) with nicer hair because of the simple fact that there are more of them than there are of us (we are a minority after all in most places, unless of course you live on the African continent or in the Caribbean).

Fourth, all women have hair issues. Take a look around at the women you know- there's limp hair, oily hair, dry hair, thin hair, balding hair, big hair, overprocessed hair, etc. 

Fifth, because of the widespread misinformation regarding black hair care, there is a disproportionately large number of us(men and women alike) who don't have healthy hair and or scalps. And an equally large number of who refuse to change their ways. So you're not going to see a ton of black women with long hair, outside of this forum, walking around. Think of the black women you know who have asked for hair advice, you told them, and then they turn around and tell you that you've always had that good hair!  So long as the myths persist in our community, blacks with healthy hair will be in the minority. 

Sixth, everyone wants something they don't have. Girls with straight hair want curls, so they get perms; girls with curly hair want straight hair so they relax/straighten. There's a reason why the Japanese invented thermal reconditioning/japanese straightening technique (because a lot of them have wavy hair) and a reason why whites came up with perms. It is the reason why the haircare industry is a Multi-billion dollar industry. 

Last, growth and retention are two different things. For example, a lot of people will look at me and say "Your hair just grows faster than mine" when in reality I've been growing my hair for YEARS, I just know how to retain my length. My hair grows at an average rate, but because it's usually months between times I wear it down it only looks like it's grown a ton, when in actuality it hasn't grown any faster than anyone elses. I don't know why so many people attribute length to growth rate, when actuality it length=time, but oh well. 

At the end of the day we should all is just be happy that we are even blessed have hair on our heads, be it straight, wavy, curly, kinky, coily, nappy, or just a hot mess,  because there are plenty of men, women and children who love to have our hair "issues". Don't believe me? Just ask a man who's going bald, a woman undergoing chemo, or a child with Alopecia areata totalis.


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## bravenewgirl87 (Apr 11, 2008)

Starr1 said:


> I just finished reading this thread and I'm a bit surprised at some the comments and misconceptions and I feel the need to address some of them.
> 
> First of all, yes black women's hair has different NEEDS. But then again all naturally curly hair types have different needs than naturally straight hair, regardless of race. Just because those needs are different, doesn't make them any more time consuming than the needs of others. For example, a hispanic friend of mine has naturally straight hair the same length as mine and spends twice as much time as I do detangling. Why? Because her hair is so fine that it tangles up if she even looks at it wrong, even when it's braided, so for her it's an everyday chore. I can get away with detangling once or twice a week. Individual routines will vary based on individual needs. Think about it, just because some else has the same hair type as you, doesn't mean their routine will work for you. Different is not neither good, nor bad. It is just different.
> 
> ...



*All of this is perfect, but this part was the most sensible thing written. How many of you all thought to ask these women about the condition of their hair before joining the board, or look at their start date before you just assume that white women can grow hair effortlessly?*


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## Ms.Honey (Apr 11, 2008)

Didi, Starr and Brave I totally agree but you know that your words have fallen on deaf ears, right. While there is no scientific reasoning behind the "Other women have it easier and their hair grows faster" argument, people are still going to believe it. You guys (and I hope I have too) have posted some common sense reasonings why it seems that others have it easier but some are just not going to accept it. Hopefully we have convinced a few.
   People don't know things because we really don't want to know. Asking is the easiest thing in the world. Ask some of these women what they do to their hair and the mystery will be over. One of my best friends has shoulder length hair and it's been shoulder length for years, never an inch longer. You know why, because she gets "trims" every two weeks. Same as many black women who go to salons. She's convinced that she needs to have her hair cut to keep it healthy and to grow (via her stylist). I try to explain to her that,"Well honey, if you get it cut aren't you cutting the length you just got?" Right over her head. She can't grasp the if you don't have split ends you don't NEED to cut it argument. Maybe I'll try using cutting grass as a visual aidBottom line is ask these girls with the never growing hair what their doing. I guarantee the explanation is simple: too much heat, overprocessed hair, crappy products and tools and lack of proper information for proper haircare and maintenance. It all equals dry damaged brittle hair which breaks from the ends, not stunted at the roots. I bet they'll all tell you that they get new growth which equals hair that is growing. And ask the white girls too. You'll be surprised with the answers. They're not happy either. Like I said before. White women especially in Europe are the main consumers of hair extensions. Why? Because they've have the exact same issues as women of all races who try to change their hair from it's original state or to just maintain what they have: heat damage, overprocessed hair, crappy hair products and tools and misinformation and improper maintence. AND peoples hair grow at different rates. Some people.....Oh forget it!!!!!
Thank you, please continue


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## LunadeMiel (Apr 11, 2008)

Starr1 said:


> I just finished reading this thread and I'm a bit surprised at some the comments and misconceptions and I feel the need to address some of them.
> 
> First of all, yes black women's hair has different NEEDS. But then again all naturally curly hair types have different needs than naturally straight hair, regardless of race. Just because those needs are different, doesn't make them any more time consuming than the needs of others. For example, a hispanic friend of mine has naturally straight hair the same length as mine and spends twice as much time as I do detangling. Why? Because her hair is so fine that it tangles up if she even looks at it wrong, even when it's braided, so for her it's an everyday chore. I can get away with detangling once or twice a week. Individual routines will vary based on individual needs. Think about it, just because some else has the same hair type as you, doesn't mean their routine will work for you. Different is not neither good, nor bad. It is just different.
> 
> ...


 
AMEN!.....


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## InnerSoul (Apr 11, 2008)

Starr1 said:


> I just finished reading this thread and I'm a bit surprised at some the comments and misconceptions and I feel the need to address some of them.
> 
> First of all, yes black women's hair has different NEEDS. But then again all naturally curly hair types have different needs than naturally straight hair, regardless of race. Just because those needs are different, doesn't make them any more time consuming than the needs of others. For example, a hispanic friend of mine has naturally straight hair the same length as mine and spends twice as much time as I do detangling. Why? Because her hair is so fine that it tangles up if she even looks at it wrong, even when it's braided, so for her it's an everyday chore. I can get away with detangling once or twice a week. Individual routines will vary based on individual needs. Think about it, just because some else has the same hair type as you, doesn't mean their routine will work for you. Different is not neither good, nor bad. It is just different.
> 
> ...


 

Great Post!!!


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## hunnybunny81 (Apr 11, 2008)

At the end of the day I believe people would rather say that its easier for other races, so they can take the accountability off of themselves and attribute their hair struggles to factors outside of their control. When it seems to me that your hair health (outside of people who have health realted hair issues)is in fact 100% in your control and are related not to uncontrollable factors, but controlled behaviors( heat abuse, neglect, etc)


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## JustKiya (Apr 11, 2008)

Starr1 said:


> I just finished reading this thread and I'm a bit surprised at some the comments and misconceptions and I feel the need to address some of them.
> 
> First of all, yes black women's hair has different NEEDS. But then again all naturally curly hair types have different needs than naturally straight hair, regardless of race. Just because those needs are different, doesn't make them any more time consuming than the needs of others. For example, a hispanic friend of mine has naturally straight hair the same length as mine and spends twice as much time as I do detangling. Why? Because her hair is so fine that it tangles up if she even looks at it wrong, even when it's braided, so for her it's an everyday chore. I can get away with detangling once or twice a week. Individual routines will vary based on individual needs. Think about it, just because some else has the same hair type as you, doesn't mean their routine will work for you. Different is not neither good, nor bad. It is just different.
> 
> ...





hunnybunny81 said:


> At the end of the day I believe people would rather say that its easier for other races, so they can take the accountability off of themselves and attribute their hair struggles to factors outside of their control. When it seems to me that your hair health (outside of people who have health realted hair issues)is in fact 100% in your control and are related not to uncontrollable factors, but controlled behaviors( heat abuse, neglect, etc)



*AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!!!! Bottom lines, RIGHT THERE. Period. 
*


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## MzOptimistic (Apr 11, 2008)

lilamae said:


> You're so right. i do believe our hair is beautiful and unique. Perhaps it's just the " grass is greener on the other side' that had me trippin for a while. I do remember being in jamaica and all of the white tourist had cornrolls!!!So they too admire what we can do with our hair.
> 
> So I'll get off the pity pot and realize that i am blessed with what i have.


 

Look at your thick mane of hair. BEAUTIFUL!!! It is so true that the grass MAY appear greenier on the other side but it's not. Our hair is beautiful, it took me finding LHCF to appreciate my hair more. I run my fingers through my newgrowth now and get excited I love my hair, with a passion


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## ladylibra (Apr 11, 2008)

didirose said:


> It's time for us to stop thinking that all black women are cursed with the hair deficiency gene.  We have black *men* who are growing full heads of hair and the reasons why are simple.  They keep it simple!



this is the EXACT thought that went thru my head when i decided to go natural.


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## Afro-Indi (Apr 11, 2008)

*Monigirl:*

Time didn't permit me to read a 27-page thread and drama is not concerning me, because my response to your quote is just discussion, not a product of drama.

I know what hyperpigmentation means, thanks. 
*I was unclear* in which context you meant it because I read too much into it (_It happens_)and *that's why I asked*. 
Furthermore, I'd already explained and excused myself for not reading the thread and assuming what you meant; hence my asking you to make that clear for me and I'm glad that you did. 
Thank you
__________________


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## A_Christian (Apr 11, 2008)

I personally don't believe that our hair is a "curse" but I do understand if someone would feel that way due to not being informed on how to properly take care of their own hair.  

I think a big part of the reason alot of black women think they can't retain length quickly has to do with scissor happy stylists and not using the right products and methods of hair care for their own hair.  

Since discovering the right products for my hair, doing my own hair a lot of the time, and not allowing stylists to clip my ends whenever they want to I noticed that my hair has gotten significantly longer than it was at the beginning of the year every year. For instance, I did my own hair for a majority of the time for eight and a half months until last month.  When I finally got a touch up last month I got it done by a stylist who listened when I said I did not want my ends clipped. The stylist listened to my request and when my hair was done I definitely had retained a significant amount of length.  I would never have known that my hair had grown so much if I would have let the stylist get to chopping. (Sorry, I don't have the pics to "prove it" yet,  I'm still saving for a digital camera). 

I think so many more black women who haven't discovered the hair boards could retain length a lot faster if they would stop letting stylists clip those ends whenever they want to, It's not always necessary.  

Anyway, At least we have the boards now and hopefully more black women will discover that their hair is not as difficult to take care of and to grow as they'd previously thought via all of the info on the hair boards.


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## DragonPearl (Apr 11, 2008)

_For those who might be interested (those of us who can't do the wash and go and still grow long hair), I found from Mscocoface's fotki, the link to that special natural hair website that caters to what I would consider 5a/b hair:_

http://www.cnappymenow.com/

*Welcome to cNappymeNow*
*A Natural Nappy Hair Community*​

You might be wondering why I created cNappymeNow. Well let me explain. This community is for all the *nappies whose hair would never be mistaken for "good" hair. It's not wavy nappy or curly nappy...it's just plain 'ole nappy hair.* We're most likely to be told that we are too nappy to go natural. We're also the ones who at some point in our lives have felt that we had the nappiest hair on earth and wished we had "good" hair. 

The most defining characterists of tightly coiled, kinky strands of product-free cNapp hair is that it has no defined curl or wave pattern when wet or dry. In other words, when shampooed, you'd never wonder how to define your curls or cute little ringlets after your hair dries because you don't have any to begin with. Instead, our coils all take their own route and when our nappy hair is loose, freshly washed and product free it takes on the appearance of a thick fluffy, cottony cloud of naps; hence our nickname cNapps. With the right products and tools, our hair can be molded into styles that define our naps. Comb coils and finger coils are a few styling techniques that come to mind as they're easily done on cNapp hair and can hold these styles quite well. In addition, the ends ouf our twists often coil up, giving the hair a wonderful finishing touch. Other characteristics of our hair is that it's usually thick (but it doesn't have to be), coarse and very reactive to moisture. *As a result, many of us experience MAJOR shrinkage. Our hair is inherently dry and extrememly prone to breakage and craves moisture all the time. We often have problems retaining length and cNapps with really long/big hair can be hard to come by mostly due to frustration and a lack of understanding about how to care for our hair*. In addition, most of us cannot tolerate mineral oil and petroleum-based products, which can contribute to dry, brittle, breaking hair as well. 

Finally our hair has no natural shine to it. The twists and turns of our kinks don't allow light to reflect off our hair, instead our strands absorb the light. However, once again, the right products can make our hair have a healthy sheen, think like a suede material as opposed to a high shine like the sun bouncing off a hard wood floor. While none of these characteristcs are mutually exclusive to cNapp hair, they all come together to give us what we have, the nappy hair that in many instances, no one would ever want. But as cNapps, we've learned to embrace our unique hair and accept it for what it is - and that's "good hair." We've redefined beauty and and the term to mean hair that's growing strong, healthy and thriving. 

If you can relate to this, you're a cNapp and let me extend a warm welcome to our happy nappy family. You've come to the right place to find other nappies that have hair similar to yours. I'm warning you...our community is addictive so be prepared to stay awhile, participate, share and learn all about cNapp hair. As you do so, I sincerely hope you'll enjoy your forum experience here at cNappymeNow. God bless and much nappy love to you all!


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## ladylibra (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^i was just thinking that today when i visited NP... Nappy Me created that site.  i think she came up with Cnapp since the description of 4b hair is that it has a zigzag pattern, and Cnapp hair is pattern-less (like a fluffy cloud of hair).


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## macherieamour (Apr 11, 2008)

Our hair is totally a blessing...I think "not having to do much to your hair" is actually a curse To me, that means you really dont have that many options...



My hair takes hours to condition, style and dry but... 
At least I can wear it straight, create curls, keep cornrows in for more than a few days. 
It doesn't get greasy or weighed down after a few hours. White women are more ensalved to their hair than we are...they dont have a choice not to wash or style it every day. 
I dont have to wash my hair everyday- making my morning routine 5 mins or less. 
In extreme heat, my "napps" protect my scalp from the sun and prevent sunburn.
I have a diverse community of women to share my hair experiences with and get excited about new products and styling methods
At least I can "go natural"

Plus, my mom always told me that the difference between a man and a woman is personal grooming. Doing my hair, doing my nails, experimenting with fashion and makeup makes me love being a woman. So, even when I dread it, I love soaking in a tub with my bubble bath and rose petals, sipping a glass of wine with a face mask and deep conditioner in my hair. And my SO knows to leave me alone 

And gosh darnit, most of the people who ask me for hair advice are WHITE. And according to a recent Dove survey, 8 out of 10 women have damaged hair. Period. So, just because they are not on a forum spending hours on their hair, doesnt mean they shouldnt be

Yes, I have days where I dont "feel" like doing my hair or become frustrated when Im trying to detangle 12 weeks post relaxer... but then I think of women who are undergoing chemo or women suffering from hair and scalp disorders and try to be grateful for even having hair to fight with.....


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## SerenavanderWoodsen (Apr 11, 2008)

macherieamour said:


> Our hair is totally a blessing...I think "not having to do much to your hair" is actually a curse To me, that means you really dont have that many options...
> 
> My hair takes hours to condition, style and dry but...
> At least I can wear it straight, create curls, keep cornrows in for more than a few days.
> ...


 i like your response


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## DayStar (Apr 11, 2008)

macherieamour said:


> Our hair is totally a blessing...I think "not having to do much to your hair" is actually a curse To me, that means you really dont have that many options...
> 
> My hair takes hours to condition, style and dry but...
> At least I can wear it straight, create curls, keep cornrows in for more than a few days.
> ...


mmmmmmmmmmmkay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## dlove (Apr 11, 2008)

Look at it this way, 

they have the sleek straight hair- thin and looks thinner as they age,we have the smooth, never wrinkling youthful forever looking young skin.

we can buy some hair...


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## Belle Du Jour (Apr 11, 2008)

Poohbear said:


> I don't see my hair or any black woman's hair as a curse... nor do I feel like I have to do much more to keep the hair on my head.  I just deal with my hair every 2 weeks and my hair still grows and retains length. Just leave your hair alone and it will grow.



The "leave it alone and let it grow" is not a preferred style option for some of us.  A TWA would not look good on me.  I'm currently wigging it up and leaving my hair alone in that sense, but it gets tiresome wearing fake hair everyday.  

It's obvious that black women have to do more to grow their hair and it's definitely frustrating for me.


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## Belle Du Jour (Apr 11, 2008)

Monigirl said:


> I feel chatty tonight and wanted to share this
> 
> I know how you feel I have hair frustration too. I wish relaxed black hair care never envolved chemical burn, underprocessing and breakage, reversion, etc...
> And I wish I knew more about my natural texture. And was born into a society were more black women wore their natural hair and achieved long lengths with it.  Dang it!!!
> ...



That site was VERY interesting.  It's weird to see white girls talking about installs and getting outre hair from hairsisters lol.


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