# My discovery



## Patricia (Jan 2, 2009)

After being on the boards about 2 years and obsessing with hair care. Guess what  I found out?
ALL I NEEDED WAS PROTEIN!
Darn shame.  plenty days of not combing cause my hair would break and come out.  No detangling in shower cause of excessive hair loss.  Cutting hair repeatly cause it was growing back thin.  Cutting back to neck length.............. You know that song.YOU JUST DO YOU , I MA DO ME, I MA DO ME, IMA DO ME.   That should have been out when I first started my journey.  I made so many mistakes listening to people who swear protein is the enemy!  My hair paid the price.   I'm good now cause I have been rebuilding my hair every week with a good dose of protein reconstructor of some type in my mane and tail.  The results has been strong hair that don't break and its not fragile anymore.  I'm not afraid to put in a ponytail or style anymore.   
Anyone else abused their hair by not using protein?
How long did it take you to figure it out?
Thanks


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## silkii_locks (Jan 2, 2009)

Join the club girl.  My hair kneels downs and thanks me every time I use anything with protein in it.  I have dense hair with fine strands and it just loves protein.  Glad you finally found what works.


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## Brooklyn72 (Jan 2, 2009)

What made you finally decide to use protein?  I know you are sick that it took 2 years before you realized protein wasn't the enemy.  
OT- your hair is pretty, I love your curls!  Did henna cover your gray hair?


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## Patricia (Jan 2, 2009)

Brooklyn72 said:


> What made you finally decide to use protein? I know you are sick that it took 2 years before you realized protein wasn't the enemy.
> OT- your hair is pretty, I love your curls! Did henna cover your gray hair?


After reading supergirls post about breakage.  A bell went off in my head and I knew I needed to use protein but I took it to another level and started using it every week.  A big hug to supergirl
Thanks for the kind words, henna did cover my gray but it turned it bright orange.  I used bigen to cover the orange.


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## Brooklyn72 (Jan 2, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Thanks for the kind words, henna did cover my gray but it turned it bright orange. I used bigen to cover the orange.


 
YIKES orange!  I love Bigen!


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## Prose Princess (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm about to up my protein usage big-time because I'm experiencing so much breakage.  I didn't before because I didn't have a good moisturizing conditioner to combat the stiffness that the protein leaves in my hair.  But now that I do, I'm all about some protein!


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## Patricia (Jan 2, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> I'm about to up my protein usage big-time because I'm experiencing so much breakage. I didn't before because I didn't have a good moisturizing conditioner to combat the stiffness that the protein leaves in my hair. But now that I do, I'm all about some protein!


Please try to catch it now.  I would do the aphogee 2 step every so often then back away from protein again.  I didn't realize my hair needed a dose of protein every week.  Another thing I didn't mention, If I moisturize everyday my hair becomes weak again.  So I only moisturize 2X a week


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## JessCNU (Jan 2, 2009)

I love protein!! My hair can't live without it. I use my Aphogee 2 min once a week and my Aphogee Hard protein treatment every 10-14 weeks.


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## charmtreese (Jan 2, 2009)

It took me about 2 yrs also to realize that my hair was craving protein.  I now use nexxus emergencee weekly.


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## Patricia (Jan 2, 2009)

charmtreese said:


> It took me about 2 yrs also to realize that my hair was craving protein. I now use nexxus emergencee weekly.


 OMG YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL!  I USE EITHER JOICO KPAK RECONSTRUCTOR OR DUOTEX EVERY WEEK
THANKS


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## Patricia (Jan 2, 2009)

JessCNU said:


> I love protein!! My hair can't live without it. I use my Aphogee 2 min once a week and my Aphogee Hard protein treatment every 10-14 weeks.


 
GOOD REGIMINE


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## Junebug D (Jan 2, 2009)

Yes, my hair started breaking like crazy after I had it straightened.  I used the Aphogee 2-minute thing Wednesday night, and breakage is gone!


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## skyborn09 (Jan 2, 2009)

I realized the same thing too.


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## Patricia (Jan 2, 2009)

skyborn09 said:


> I realized the same thing too.


 WOW WE HAVE THE SAME GOALS FOR THIS YEAR. I'M GOING TO CHECK OUT YOUR FOTKI!


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## bbdgirl (Jan 2, 2009)

great thread!  
I discovered that my hair loves protein as well a few months ago.  I used to use Aphogee 2 minute treatment every two weeks and then...well I just forgot and stopped.  I was washing my hair and it felt very, very spongy and I was thinking of cutting off about 3-4 inches b/c I thought they were just overprocessed from my pre-LHCF days.  Then I heard someone mention Aphogee and I realized that I hadn't used my trusty bottle in months.  
I DCed for 45 minutes with  heat with the Aphogee 2 min and Suave Humecto and my hair felt brand new! I couln't believe it.  It was so strong, soft, silky and best of all not SPONGY!! Yay!!
So I use protein regularly, my hair loves it and doesn't feel dry and brittle and I always back it up with moisturizing cond.

I had even added MegaTek to my regime and my hair is strong and *not *brittle.  But does shed like crazy.

We just have to remember that everyone's hair is different because protein is my friend!!

Sorry for the long post but for the first time in months I am in love with my hair again!


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## Patricia (Jan 2, 2009)

shan_2001 said:


> Yes, my hair started breaking like crazy after I had it straightened. I used the Aphogee 2-minute thing Wednesday night, and breakage is gone!


 STOP BREAKAGE IN ITS TRACKS


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## Patricia (Jan 2, 2009)

bbdgirl said:


> great thread!
> I discovered that my hair loves protein as well a few months ago. I used to use Aphogee 2 minute treatment every two weeks and then...well I just forgot and stopped. I was washing my hair and it felt very, very spongy and I was thinking of cutting off about 3-4 inches b/c I thought they were just overprocessed from my pre-LHCF days. Then I heard someone mention Aphogee and I realized that I hadn't used my trusty bottle in months.
> I DCed for 45 minutes with heat with the Aphogee 2 min and Suave Humecto and my hair felt brand new! I couln't believe it. It was so strong, soft, silky and best of all not SPONGY!! Yay!!
> So I use protein regularly, my hair loves it and doesn't feel dry and brittle and I always back it up with moisturizing cond.
> ...


I'M JUMPING UP AND DOWN KNOWING I'M NOT ALONE.  I'M HOPING THIS THREAD HELPS SOMEONE.


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## Muse (Jan 2, 2009)

Patricia said:


> OMG YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL!  I USE EITHER JOICO KPAK RECONSTRUCTOR OR DUOTEX EVERY WEEK
> THANKS



Wow that's funny because I just posted in another thread how I planned on using Joico K pak on my natural hair every week because I'm just realizing that I may have naturally weaker hair that's just more prone to breakage even if I don't relax, use heat,etc. Since using Joico products my hair doesn't feel as delicate, I can only imagine the lengths I'll be able to get incorporating this stuff.

I know what you mean though when I first came here I jumped on every bandwagon and ruined my hair even more I was afraid of the protein overload stories so I steered clear and decided to do low mani instead which was a mistake cuz I had so MANY knots and tangles and I'm thinking "I should be able to comb my hair whenever I want without issues, this is ridiculous!"

I know it took 2 years for you but at least you found it, now you can grow to greater lengths!


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## Supergirl (Jan 2, 2009)

Patricia,

This hair journey is such a trial-and-error thing sometimes. Very cool that you have been able to discover the right elements for getting and keeping your hair in top shape.  I know it feels great!


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## Healthb4Length (Jan 2, 2009)

So glad you found this out! I know your hair must feel really good right now! I remember there was like a "protein backlash" and everyone was swearing up and down that protein was the debil. The light bulb went off for me after revisiting supergirls' thread and rereading Cathy Howses' book. I know Cathy is NOT popular in these circles but her methods make sense to me and works for me. I now have upped my protein treatments and you know what? My hair is thanking me right now! I think it's so critical to use protein especially during the winter months when the windy weather can wreak serious havoc on your strands.

OP, maybe you should create a challenge about weekly protein usage.


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## 200AndOne (Jan 2, 2009)

You know what - you just made me have a lightbulb moment too  
I've been really leery of using too much protein too, (been on my hair journey for just under 8 months now).  I've been focusing on trying to repair my moisture level after years of neglect, but I've been experiencing breakage lately that's driving me bananas  and I think upping my protein level would help alot.


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## Solitude (Jan 2, 2009)

Yeah, sometimes it's something super-simple. For me, it was realizing that direct heat every day is bad & that putting grease on my scalp is a no-no (for me, at least).


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## Muse (Jan 2, 2009)

Healthb4Length said:


> OP, maybe you should create a challenge about weekly protein usage.



That sounds like a good idea! I would definitely join


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## LivingDoll (Jan 2, 2009)

My hair has never responded well to hard proteins like Aphoghee but I'm about to search until I find something that will work because I've been experiencing a little breakage here and there...when I comb my hair I see little pieces of hair (about a half inch long)...I know they've snapped off my ends. I need to nip it in the butt before I experience a major setback. I just recently bought CON's Reconstructor. I'm hoping that I'll have good results.


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## FluffyRed (Jan 2, 2009)

2 YEARS!!!  I'm so sorry it took that long.

Thank goodness one of the first things I discovered through LHCF was SistaSlick's article on protein-moisture balance.

But I remember how happy i was to have made that discovery and felt the difference in my hair, so CONGRATULATIONS!!!

I use moisture/protein balanced conditioners and spray bottle mixes.  If I ever do a pure moisture step, my hair gets spongy!!


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## isawstars (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm not experiencing any breakage but my hair is mushy.  After reading this thread, I've decided to try a protein treatment.  I am afraid to, but I will never know if protein is what my hair truly needs unless I try.


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## gissellr78 (Jan 2, 2009)

Patricia said:


> After being on the boards about 2 years and obsessing with hair care. Guess what I found out?
> ALL I NEEDED WAS PROTEIN!
> Darn shame. plenty days of not combing cause my hair would break and come out. No detangling in shower cause of excessive hair loss. Cutting hair repeatly cause it was growing back thin. Cutting back to neck length.............. You know that song.YOU JUST DO YOU , I MA DO ME, I MA DO ME, IMA DO ME. That should have been out when I first started my journey.  I made so many mistakes listening to people who swear protein is the enemy! My hair paid the price. I'm good now cause I have been rebuilding my hair every week with a good dose of protein reconstructor of some type in my mane and tail. The results has been strong hair that don't break and its not fragile anymore. I'm not afraid to put in a ponytail or style anymore.
> Anyone else abused their hair by not using protein?
> ...


 


Thats how i feel everytime i see a blog about protein knocking...My hair loves it i use nexxus emergencee every 2 weeks...my hair is always soft...i think is about which hard protein suits your hair not all are the same....this is what i think helps me retain...


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## chebaby (Jan 2, 2009)

well my hair wasnt breaking or anything but i did notice a huge difference when i used protein weekly instead of just moisture.
my hair is fine as weel and it just love protein. espe. joico reconstructore, aphogee shampoo and 2 minute conditioner and ORS replenishing pak.


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## bbdgirl (Jan 2, 2009)

daephae said:


> My hair has never responded well to hard proteins like Aphoghee but I'm about to search until I find something that will work because I've been experiencing a little breakage here and there...when I comb my hair I see little pieces of hair (about a half inch long)...I know they've snapped off my ends. I need to nip it in the butt before I experience a major setback. I just recently bought CON's Reconstructor. I'm hoping that I'll have good results.


 

you may not need a hard/heavy protein but just more treatments of light/medium protein treatments. 
I don't use the 2-step Ahpogee but the 2 minute Aphogee treatment, it is very effective. 
They are others to try like:
Motions CPR
Profectiv Growth Masque
Joico Daily Moisture
I also went back to Coconut oil, this is a light protein as well


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## Poodlepizzared (Jan 2, 2009)

My hair loves the protein!!!!!!!!! I prepoo with ORS hair mayo mixed with olive oil spray sheen once a week.


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## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 2, 2009)

Patricia said:


> After being on the boards about 2 years and obsessing with hair care. Guess what  I found out?
> ALL I NEEDED WAS PROTEIN!
> Darn shame.  plenty days of not combing cause my hair would break and come out.  No detangling in shower cause of excessive hair loss.  Cutting hair repeatly cause it was growing back thin.  Cutting back to neck length.............. You know that song.YOU JUST DO YOU , I MA DO ME, I MA DO ME, IMA DO ME.   That should have been out when I first started my journey.  I made so many mistakes listening to people who swear protein is the enemy!  My hair paid the price.   I'm good now cause I have been rebuilding my hair every week with a good dose of protein reconstructor of some type in my mane and tail.  The results has been strong hair that don't break and its not fragile anymore.  I'm not afraid to put in a ponytail or style anymore.
> Anyone else abused their hair by not using protein?
> ...



I have. I have fine hair and just figured out that my lack of progress is due to not using protein more regularly. 

I've been using Joico Kpak products to help strengthen my hair and it's been doing much better. 

ETA: I've been on here for 2 years too. *hangs head in shame*


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## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 2, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> I'm about to up my protein usage big-time because I'm experiencing so much breakage.  I didn't before because I didn't have a good moisturizing conditioner to combat the stiffness that the protein leaves in my hair.  But now that I do, I'm all about some protein!



Try using a lighter protein every week instead like Nexxus Keraphix. It never leaves my hair hard or stiff.


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## Rain20 (Jan 2, 2009)

My fine hair loves protein also. I use egg in conditioner, aphogee 2 min reconstructor, or Mega-Tek. I switch it up. I have trouble with hydrolyzed collagen and sometimes certain products with hydrolyzed keratin. Maybe fine hair needs more protein.


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## Marand13 (Jan 2, 2009)

I always use my protein! Love ApHogee its the best for my hair!


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## blue_flower (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm surprised that someone would say that protein is the enemy. We need it to rebuild and repair our bodies.


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## spacetygrss (Jan 2, 2009)

My hair loves protein. I use JOICO Kpak reconstructor every other week and ORS Replenishing once a week (it's moisturizing but still has some protein) or Sebastian 2+1. Of course, I need moisturizing conditioners, but if I skip the protein it's a wrap. I might as well shave my head cuz my hair is not having it!


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## girlyprincess23 (Jan 2, 2009)

This happened to me because when I started I accidentally put myself into protein overload by dc with a protein dc that I thought was a moisturizing dc AND using Henna at the same time. So after I got out of protein overload I didnt wanna go near protein again and my hair paid the proce it took me almost 3/4 of a year to figure out protein was not the enemy!! But I am doing the same as you when I am not in braids I use L'anza's protein reconstructor weekly and that and their leave in has really turned my hair around. So....YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!


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## Serenity_Peace (Jan 2, 2009)

I was in Jersey City at one of the best BSS's I've come across. They have a long list of Dominican products and most everything you need. Well, I went to pick up my favorite Silicon Mix Deep Conditioner (in the tub) and discovered that they also have a Silicon Mix Protein Treatment, so I picked that up, too. I will pre-poo overnight on Saturday. Wake up on Sunday and do my protein, shampoo with a moisturizing shampoo, followed by my beloved Silicon Mix Deep Conditioning treatment. My hair has thanked me over and over again because I've finally figured out how I can achieve a healthy balance between protein-moisture. That is the key to health, growth and retention, especially during this cold, dry winter season.

Congratulations. It feels good, don't it? I hope you will keep us posted on your progress. :blowkiss:


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## Tigerlily25 (Jan 2, 2009)

My hair is weak, and brittle and so so so so so so THIN, Lawd-Gee-Sus ! Not quite bald, but a-hem yeah. Maybe there is something about protein for me too.  This is all new and I don't know what hair product has protein from what doesn't? Do I simply look for the word PROTEIN on the label? Also, is Cholesterol a protein...? I bought four things (based on all the swearing up and down that they are GREAT) the other day... and I still don't know what's what.

Pantene R&N Breakage Defense Deep Con Mask - okay, I know it's a "DC" but does it have protein? I loved this one, by the way.

Lustrasilk Oilve Oil Cholesterol - I was washing this out until something said "read the label" duh... it's a leave-in, and I love the way my hair feels with this one. 

Cantu Shea Butter Leave-in Con Repair Cream - smells great but guess what....I hated it, way too thick and it weighed my hair down and made it a hard-cakey mess

Elasta QP Mango Butter Moisturizer - hated it, sorry, again with the thickness, it was just way too thick for my frail thin strands... gorgeous smell though, sigh!

After learning about growth-aids (say What?!), and pouring over the LHCF messages, Google-ing, narrowing down the list to the best smelling one, and finally number-crunching, I decided on Mega-Tek. I ordered the Mega-Tek but I haven't received it yet. I'm hoping for the best results with this one.

Okay, what do I do? Do I scour the BSS aisle for PROTEIN splashed on the label? Also, what is a light protein and hard protein. Oh Lawd, my head is spinning and I have to go lie down now erplexed .


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## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 2, 2009)

Tigerlily25 said:


> My hair is weak, and brittle and so so so so so so THIN, Lawd-Gee-Sus ! Not quite bald, but a-hem yeah. Maybe there is something about protein for me too.  This is all new and I don't know what hair product has protein from what doesn't? Do I simply look for the word PROTEIN on the label? Also, is Cholesterol a protein...? I bought four things (based on all the swearing up and down that they are GREAT) the other day... and I still don't know what's what.
> 
> Pantene R&N Breakage Defense Deep Con Mask - okay, I know it's a "DC" but does it have protein? I loved this one, by the way.
> 
> ...



The search feature is not working right now, but I believe there are several older threads that break down a list of  moisture and protein conditioners.

Cholesterol is moisture, from what I've heard. Not sure about the Pantene Mask... I think it's mostly moisturizing.

A light protein conditioner is, for example, Motions Silk Protein conditioner, CPR treatment or Nexxus Keraphix.

A hard protein is Aphogee 2-step treatment or Nexxus Emergencee. 

There are a lot more, but I'll leave it to the experts to break it down for you.


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## Tigerlily25 (Jan 2, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> The search feature is not working right now, but I believe there are several older threads that break down a list of  moisture and protein conditioners.
> 
> Cholesterol is moisture, from what I've heard. Not sure about the Pantene Mask... I think it's mostly moisturizing.
> 
> ...



Wow, it looks like I got it all wrong going with all things MOISTURE! Thanks for helping me out. I forgot to mention about the Castor Oil, .. don't get me started. I had high high hopes for this one because I prefer using natural products but my hair balled up into one giant knot as if it was scouring at me. My face thanks me for it though, so it wasn't a complete loss. My skin feels so soft  with the Castor Oil. 

The thing is that my hair does grow... and grow past SL...it's just that anything past SL is where the string thing begins... it's so thin and brittle that I usually end up just cutting it off, which is usually two to three inches by then   . AND I really hate to cut it but what choice do I have? It's so embarrassing (my mom calls them "the strings") because there is an obvious line of demarcation ...You can literally see where the regular thin hair ends (right at SL of course) and where the string-thing begins. Yeah, it's that bad. 

Mega-Tek is Protein, Right? Please tell me I got that one right?!? I'm going back to the BSS armed with your list. Thanking you in my sleep tonight :2cool: .


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## bbdgirl (Jan 2, 2009)

blue_flower said:


> I'm surprised that someone would say that protein is the enemy. We need it to rebuild and repair our bodies.


 
it wasn't just one someone...many ladies feel that protein is the enemy or say that their hair doesn't like protein, but everyone's hair different.  I am just glad that I didn't stay away too long.


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## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Muse said:


> Wow that's funny because I just posted in another thread how I planned on using Joico K pak on my natural hair every week because I'm just realizing that I may have naturally weaker hair that's just more prone to breakage even if I don't relax, use heat,etc. Since using Joico products my hair doesn't feel as delicate, I can only imagine the lengths I'll be able to get incorporating this stuff.
> 
> I know what you mean though when I first came here I jumped on every bandwagon and ruined my hair even more I was afraid of the protein overload stories so I steered clear and decided to do low mani instead which was a mistake cuz I had so MANY knots and tangles and I'm thinking "I should be able to comb my hair whenever I want without issues, this is ridiculous!"
> 
> I know it took 2 years for you but at least you found it, now you can grow to greater lengths!


I was so depressed cause it seemed like my hair was in better shape before the boards.  This experience was a blessing because I now know about my hair.  I thought I knew about my hair before the boards. No more bandwagons for me ever ever ever ever.............


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## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Supergirl said:


> Patricia,
> 
> This hair journey is such a trial-and-error thing sometimes. Very cool that you have been able to discover the right elements for getting and keeping your hair in top shape.  I know it feels great!


 OMG I owe you big time.  I was reading your post about the solutions for breakage.  I finally saw the light.  My eyes was opened and discovered I needed protein.  THANKS FOR EVERYTHING SUPERGIRL


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## AtlantaJJ (Jan 3, 2009)

Add me to the list of naturals who will be using protein reconstructors weekly!!


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## Artemis (Jan 3, 2009)

Yep, it took me a year of erring on "the side of moisture" before I realized it was killing my strands. Moisture and protein are not exclusive. It's the ratios of both that vary for each head. I posted my "epiphany" in the Thin/Fine Support Thread.

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showpost.php?p=6544353&postcount=661


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## Prose Princess (Jan 3, 2009)

Does anyone know of a good protein leave-in? And where can I purchase Duotex?


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## AtlantaJJ (Jan 3, 2009)

spacetygrss said:


> My hair loves protein. I use JOICO Kpak reconstructor every other week and ORS Replenishing once a week (it's moisturizing but still has some protein) or Sebastian 2+1. Of course, I need moisturizing conditioners, but if I skip the protein it's a wrap. I might as well shave my head cuz my hair is not having it!


I have to dust off my 2+1


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## Artemis (Jan 3, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> Does anyone know of a good protein leave-in? And where can I purchase Duotex?



I like Motions Nourish and Joico k-pak liquid reconstructor.

I've seen Duotex at Sally's.


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## Luscious Locks (Jan 3, 2009)

my hair loves protein too. and i even think it likes heat. not excessive heat of course, but i think i've taken this hair protecting thing too far. i'm about to be relaxing more often, using more protein, and I'll only be airdrying in the last 3 weeks of my 7-8 week relaxer stretch because my hair behaves best when i do that.


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## anniev2 (Jan 3, 2009)

Luscious Locks said:


> my hair loves protein too. and i even think it likes heat. not excessive heat of course, but i think i've taken this hair protecting thing too far. i'm about to be relaxing more often, using more protein, and I'll only be airdrying in the last 3 weeks of my 7-8 week relaxer stretch because my hair behaves best when i do that.





*luscious: *sounds like you have a good handle on your plans.  that's really good.  its nothing like knowing what you need for your hair and not having to experiment to get it.

*All: *Question about spongy feeling hair.  Several of you said that your hair feels spongy when it needs protein.  What are other symptoms, most common?  Can someone give me a further explanation of spongy feeling hair?


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## The Savvy Sistah (Jan 3, 2009)

I discovered this a few months ago too. I'm natural with fine, thin hair and the moisture from the co-washes was too much. Protein is not the problem but too much of it can  become one.


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## The Savvy Sistah (Jan 3, 2009)

Double Post


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## The Savvy Sistah (Jan 3, 2009)

anniev2 said:


> *luscious: *sounds like you have a good handle on your plans. that's really good. its nothing like knowing what you need for your hair and not having to experiment to get it.
> 
> *All: *Question about spongy feeling hair. Several of you said that your hair feels spongy when it needs protein. *What are other symptoms, most* *common?* Can someone give me a further explanation of spongy feeling hair?


 
For me when I pull a strand of hair and it stretches to much, I know I'm headed toward moisture overload.


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## hillytmj (Jan 3, 2009)

This is a great thread. As I'm becoming more in tune with my hair, I'm realizing that I have experienced breakage rather than shedding. It's not all over the sink, but I figured out that it's "broken" hair and not "shed" hair by the length.

When I went to my stylist on a weekly basis, she always used a protein/moisture combo as a DC for me. My hair thrived. I want to use the Affirm 5-in-1-Reconstructor that she uses, but I'm having a hard time getting my hands on it since i'm not a stylist. She uses this as a DC after a relaxer. On wash day, she would mix it some Keracare Humecto.

I don't recall every having any breakage then (with the protein/moisture combo).


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## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Healthb4Length said:


> So glad you found this out! I know your hair must feel really good right now! I remember there was like a "protein backlash" and everyone was swearing up and down that protein was the debil. her methods make sense to me and works for me. I now have upped my pThe light bulb went off for me after revisiting supergirls' thread and rereading Cathy Howses' book. I know Cathy is NOT popular in these circles but rotein treatments and you know what? My hair is thanking me right now! I think it's so critical to use protein especially during the winter months when the windy weather can wreak serious havoc on your strands.
> 
> OP, maybe you should create a challenge about weekly protein usage.


TOLD YOU SUPERGIRL, WE OWE YOU BIG TIME

THATS A CHALLENGE I WILL JOIN.   THANK YOU SO MUCH HEALTHB4LENGTH


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## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Camandzay said:


> You know what - you just made me have a lightbulb moment too
> I've been really leery of using too much protein too, (been on my hair journey for just under 8 months now). I've been focusing on trying to repair my moisture level after years of neglect, but I've been experiencing breakage lately that's driving me bananas  and I think upping my protein level would help alot.


 
I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND.  I was so focused on moisture and my hair weakened everyday.  I have since cut my moisture down to a few times a week.    Thats what I'm talking bout.  Learn from my mistake!


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## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

mizzdebbi said:


> Yeah, sometimes it's something super-simple. For me, it was realizing that direct heat every day is bad & that putting grease on my scalp is a no-no (for me, at least).


 
You right.  Heat not good for me either everyday!


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## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Muse said:


> That sounds like a good idea! I would definitely join


 I would join too


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## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

daephae said:


> My hair has never responded well to hard proteins like Aphoghee but I'm about to search until I find something that will work because I've been experiencing a little breakage here and there...when I comb my hair I see little pieces of hair (about a half inch long)...I know they've snapped off my ends. I need to nip it in the butt before I experience a major setback. I just recently bought CON's Reconstructor. I'm hoping that I'll have good results.


 I have used aphoghee 2 step also but I got turned off when my breakage would reoccur.  Now I just put a dose of protein reconstructor of some sort in my weekly routine.  Aphogee is a good product but sometimes you can get a protein overload off it.  Let me know how the CON Reconstructor works for you .  GVP/Joico kpac and ultrasheen duotex is good also.


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## Artemis (Jan 3, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> The search feature is not working right now, but I believe there are several older threads that break down a list of  moisture and protein conditioners.
> 
> Cholesterol is moisture, from what I've heard. Not sure about the Pantene Mask... I think it's mostly moisturizing.
> 
> ...



Cholesterol is a special one--I consider this a fatty treatment. You know like when people feel they need more ceramides (which are lipids). Lipids are just as important as protein and moisture, supporting the cuticle layer. They give moisture, but moreso pliability. Some cholesterol treatments contain collagen too, so that's where the strength comes from. So yeah, I consider cholesterols to be in their own category, but hey JMO.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

choppybob said:


> 2 YEARS!!! I'm so sorry it took that long.
> 
> Thank goodness one of the first things I discovered through LHCF was SistaSlick's article on protein-moisture balance.
> 
> ...


 I read the article too!  It didn't click with me.  Of course it makes sence to me now.


----------



## BillyJay (Jan 3, 2009)

I love protein!
Sometimes I use protein straight (wheat or Soy) after I shampoo.
I just pour t over my hair as a rinse and let it sit for a while. Then I follow up with a moisturizing/protein free conditioner.

Because I use *lots *of heat, it saves my hair from damage.

Before, I didnt use alot of protein because I was natural, but now that I'm relaxed, its an important part of my reggie.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

isawstars said:


> I'm not experiencing any breakage but my hair is mushy. After reading this thread, I've decided to try a protein treatment. I am afraid to, but I will never know if protein is what my hair truly needs unless I try.


Sallys have a product you might want to try  GVP/joico kpac. Its reasonably priced and contain human hair keratin protein which is considered the closes match to our hair.  That means it will actually bond and repair damaged hair


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Jan 3, 2009)

This is food for thought! thanks ladies!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

gissellr78 said:


> Thats how i feel everytime i see a blog about protein knocking...My hair loves it i use nexxus emergencee every 2 weeks...my hair is always soft...i think is about which hard protein suits your hair not all are the same....this is what i think helps me retain...


And your hair is quite beautiful.  I've been hearing good things about nexxus emergencee.  This means a lot to hear from all you ladies


----------



## Lanea87 (Jan 3, 2009)

My hair loves it too, I use Aphogee 2 min every week.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

chebaby said:


> well my hair wasnt breaking or anything but i did notice a huge difference when i used protein weekly instead of just moisture.
> my hair is fine as weel and it just love protein. espe. joico reconstructore, aphogee shampoo and 2 minute conditioner and ORS replenishing pak.


 Thanks , You summed it up right "HUGE DIFFERENCE"


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

bbdgirl said:


> you may not need a hard/heavy protein but just more treatments of light/medium protein treatments.
> I don't use the 2-step Ahpogee but the 2 minute Aphogee treatment, it is very effective.
> They are others to try like:
> Motions CPR
> ...


 I AGREE. That was my problem turning to strickly hard core instead of a moderate dose every week.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Poodlepizzared said:


> My hair loves the protein!!!!!!!!! I prepoo with ORS hair mayo mixed with olive oil spray sheen once a week.


JOIN THE "I LOVE PROTEIN HAIR CLUB" WITH ME


----------



## Prose Princess (Jan 3, 2009)

Sorry to keep asking all of these questions, but would Duo Tex be considered a hard protein treatment? I'm planning on improving my protein stash today and I need a hard protein for my collection. Also, where does ORS Hair Mayo place? Medium? Help! Btw, I'm getting Motions Silk Protein and CPR for light.  TIA!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> I have. I have fine hair and just figured out that my lack of progress is due to not using protein more regularly.
> 
> I've been using Joico Kpak products to help strengthen my hair and it's been doing much better.
> 
> ETA: I've been on here for 2 years too. *hangs head in shame*


Only one direction now! UP.  Joico kpak really strengthens


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> Sorry to keep asking all of these questions, but would Duo Tex be considered a hard protein treatment? I'm planning on improving my protein stash today and I need a hard protein for my collection. Also, where does ORS Hair Mayo place? Medium? Help! Btw, I'm getting Motions Silk Protein and CPR for light. TIA!


No you not asking to many questions.  This thread is to help you NOT do what I did.  Hopefully this answer helps you.  DuoTex for me is a big bottle of inexpensive treatment from goodness.  It cost 5bucks for 32oz.  I would consider it a moderate to hardcore protein because my hair felt silky and strong.  I didn't use a moisturizing conditioner afterward but thats me.  I use it  full strength but I plan on putting some in my mane and tail like I do my other reconstructors everyweek.   I have ORS MAYO and I would say medium.  Havent tried Motions Silk Protein.  I'm curious myself.  Hopefully someone else can help.  What is CPR?


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> Try using a lighter protein every week instead like Nexxus Keraphix. It never leaves my hair hard or stiff.


 You right I use to use this back in the day.  very good protein conditioner. i bought it just because.  i didn't know a thing about protein moisture! a nice strong feeling to hair.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Rain20 said:


> My fine hair loves protein also. I use egg in conditioner, aphogee 2 min reconstructor, or Mega-Tek. I switch it up. I have trouble with hydrolyzed collagen and sometimes certain products with hydrolyzed keratin. Maybe fine hair needs more protein.


 you on the right track


----------



## Prose Princess (Jan 3, 2009)

Motions CPR (Critical Protection & Repair). It's a mild protein conditioner that comes in a jar. That used to be the only DC I used, because it was really moisturizing. What is your favorite light protein, Patricia?


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Marand13 said:


> I always use my protein! Love ApHogee its the best for my hair!


 
My level of confidence just went up a level!  Glad you figured it out too:creatures


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> Motions CPR (Critical Protection & Repair). It's a mild protein conditioner that comes in a jar. That used to be the only DC I used, because it was really moisturizing. What is your favorite light protein, Patricia?


 Mane and Tail but I'm wondering if that counts cause I never used it alone.  I always add some kind of reconstructor to it.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

blue_flower said:


> I'm surprised that someone would say that protein is the enemy. We need it to rebuild and repair our bodies.


Only if I had common sence   You live and learn.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

spacetygrss said:


> My hair loves protein. I use JOICO Kpak reconstructor every other week and ORS Replenishing once a week (it's moisturizing but still has some protein) or Sebastian 2+1. Of course, I need moisturizing conditioners, but if I skip the protein it's a wrap. I might as well shave my head cuz my hair is not having it![/quote]
> Thats funny


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

girlyprincess23 said:


> This happened to me because when I started I accidentally put myself into protein overload by dc with a protein dc that I thought was a moisturizing dc AND using Henna at the same time. So after I got out of protein overload I didnt wanna go near protein again and my hair paid the proce it took me almost 3/4 of a year to figure out protein was not the enemy!! But I am doing the same as you when I am not in braids I use L'anza's protein reconstructor weekly and that and their leave in has really turned my hair around. So....YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!


 
I did the same thing!  That why I'm so happy now.  I'm feeling you when you say.  I'm not alone


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Serenity_Peace said:


> I was in Jersey City at one of the best BSS's I've come across. They have a long list of Dominican products and most everything you need. Well, I went to pick up my favorite Silicon Mix Deep Conditioner (in the tub) and discovered that they also have a Silicon Mix Protein Treatment, so I picked that up, too. I will pre-poo overnight on Saturday. Wake up on Sunday and do my protein, shampoo with a moisturizing shampoo, followed by my beloved Silicon Mix Deep Conditioning treatment. My hair has thanked me over and over again because I've finally figured out how I can achieve a healthy balance between protein-moisture. That is the key to health, growth and retention, especially during this cold, dry winter season.
> 
> Congratulations. It feels good, don't it? I hope you will keep us posted on your progress. :blowkiss:


YES MAAM IT DOES FEEL GOOD


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Tigerlily25 said:


> My hair is weak, and brittle and so so so so so so THIN, Lawd-Gee-Sus ! Not quite bald, but a-hem yeah. Maybe there is something about protein for me too. This is all new and I don't know what hair product has protein from what doesn't? Do I simply look for the word PROTEIN on the label? Also, is Cholesterol a protein...? I bought four things (based on all the swearing up and down that they are GREAT) the other day... and I still don't know what's what.
> 
> Pantene R&N Breakage Defense Deep Con Mask - okay, I know it's a "DC" but does it have protein? I loved this one, by the way.
> 
> ...


 
HONEY DON'T GET OVERWHELMED.  THATS WHY YOU HERE.   Go to my fotki Journal and read the section on hair care.  Its describing the different types of proteins for hair.  I have included some protein conditioners and the type of protein it has in it.  I'm not finish compiling a list of protein products and the type.  Maybe it will be a start for you to understand what to look for on labels.  I don't know anything about Megatek but what I heard it has a lot of protein in it and makes your hair shed.  Ladies that use megatek take garlic pills to help with shedding.  Its other precautions to do check with the users before you try.  
My understanding a couple cholestrol products have protein it it.  Cholestrol is not a protein but it makes you hair feel good..
Do you have a fotki? If so I'll check you out and leave feedback


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> The search feature is not working right now, but I believe there are several older threads that break down a list of moisture and protein conditioners.
> 
> Cholesterol is moisture, from what I've heard. Not sure about the Pantene Mask... I think it's mostly moisturizing.
> 
> ...


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE IF YOU FIND IT CAN YOU POST IT OR SEND IT TO ME


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

bbdgirl said:


> it wasn't just one someone...many ladies feel that protein is the enemy or say that their hair doesn't like protein, but everyone's hair different. I am just glad that I didn't stay away too long.


 PRIME EXAMPLE THIS THREAD. THANKS


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

AtlantaJJ said:


> Add me to the list of naturals who will be using protein reconstructors weekly!!


 I HEARD YA


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Artemis said:


> Yep, it took me a year of erring on "the side of moisture" before I realized it was killing my strands. Moisture and protein are not exclusive. It's the ratios of both that vary for each head. I posted my "epiphany" in the Thin/Fine Support Thread.
> 
> http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showpost.php?p=6544353&postcount=661


 GOOD THREAD.  I NEED TO SAVE YOUR POST.  WOW


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

Luscious Locks said:


> my hair loves protein too. and i even think it likes heat. not excessive heat of course, but i think i've taken this hair protecting thing too far. i'm about to be relaxing more often, using more protein, and I'll only be airdrying in the last 3 weeks of my 7-8 week relaxer stretch because my hair behaves best when i do that.


 
GOOD TO KNOW


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

anniev2 said:


> *luscious: *sounds like you have a good handle on your plans. that's really good. its nothing like knowing what you need for your hair and not having to experiment to get it.
> 
> *All: *Question about spongy feeling hair. Several of you said that your hair feels spongy when it needs protein. What are other symptoms, most common? Can someone give me a further explanation of spongy feeling hair?


 SPONGY TO ME IS WET HAIR THAT COMES OUT IN YOUR HANDS FROM THE ROOTS.  WEAK.... NOT STRONG


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

The Savvy Sistah said:


> I discovered this a few months ago too. I'm natural with fine, thin hair and the moisture from the co-washes was too much. Protein is not the problem but too much of it can become one.


YEAH I STOPPED COWASHING TOO


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

hillytmj said:


> This is a great thread. As I'm becoming more in tune with my hair, I'm realizing that I have experienced breakage rather than shedding. It's not all over the sink, but I figured out that it's "broken" hair and not "shed" hair by the length.
> 
> When I went to my stylist on a weekly basis, she always used a protein/moisture combo as a DC for me. My hair thrived. I want to use the Affirm 5-in-1-Reconstructor that she uses, but I'm having a hard time getting my hands on it since i'm not a stylist. She uses this as a DC after a relaxer. On wash day, she would mix it some Keracare Humecto.
> 
> I don't recall every having any breakage then (with the protein/moisture combo).


 GLAD TO HEAR


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

BillyJay said:


> I love protein!
> Sometimes I use protein straight (wheat or Soy) after I shampoo.
> I just pour t over my hair as a rinse and let it sit for a while. Then I follow up with a moisturizing/protein free conditioner.
> 
> ...


HEY YOU KNOW I WANT SOME OF THAT GOOD GOOD!
I HEARD IF YOU USE HEAT YOU SHOULD UP YOUR PROTEIN


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

samanthajones67 said:


> This is food for thought! thanks ladies!


 BEAUTIFUL HAIR SAMANTHA


----------



## Patricia (Jan 3, 2009)

ms_b_haven06 said:


> My hair loves it too, I use Aphogee 2 min every week.


 COOL.  BTW LOVE YOUR PROGRESS


----------



## ebonylocs (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm kinda different. From when I started visiting this site, read articles like SistaSlick's etc, I realised that my fine, porous strands need and tolerate quite a bit of light protein. This was even so (but to a slightly lesser extent) when my hair was natural. So since the beginning I've been using Aphogee 2 Min every week *like clockwork*, in addition to a moisturising conditioner. 

The thing is, my hair doesn't seem to have a lot of elasticity. It's too brittle for my liking. And one time a few months ago, when I didn't use the Aphogee, my hair was sooo much easier to detangle - it felt a bit weaker, so I was scared of that and did a protein treatment a few days later, but while it lasted I liked the new softness and manageability.

So my question is, what protein conditioners give a super dose of strength, yet leave the hair pliable, elastic, silky and not stiff and brittle and tangly. (Not that the Aphogee is bad - I'm just wondering if it is the best for *my* hair.)


----------



## victorious (Jan 3, 2009)

*hangs head in shame.* 

It took me almost *4* years to realize that. 

I recently determined my hair needs more mild protein more often.  I'm back to scraggly ends once again, but I'm going to up the mild protein weekly. I'll try the Aphogee 2 min reconstructor next weekend since I henna'ed midweek. I've also added a little leftover Infusium 23 to my spray bottle. I'm still keeping ORS Mayo and their Replenishing Conditioner in rotation.

I tried the 2 step Aphogee and Infusium 23 before joining the forum, and swore my hair hated protein...wrong. I think I went overboard with it in the past. I might not need the 2 step Aphogee if I keep up with the monthly henna.


----------



## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 3, 2009)

Artemis said:


> Cholesterol is a special one--I consider this a fatty treatment. You know like when people feel they need more ceramides (which are lipids). *Lipids are just as important as protein and moisture, supporting the cuticle layer. They give moisture, but moreso pliability*. Some cholesterol treatments contain collagen too, so that's where the strength comes from. So yeah, I consider cholesterols to be in their own category, but hey JMO.



I did my best, but hey, nice explanation. I know you are very knowledge about hair products.  And I never knew ceramides were lipids. Learn something new everyday. Do Joico products contain ceramides as well? How do you know when your hair may need lipids?


----------



## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 3, 2009)

BillyJay said:


> I love protein!
> Sometimes I use protein straight (wheat or Soy) after I shampoo.
> I just pour t over my hair as a rinse and let it sit for a while. Then I follow up with a moisturizing/protein free conditioner.
> 
> ...



Where do you purchase your proteins straight-up?


----------



## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 3, 2009)

Patricia said:


> I AGREE. That was my problem turning to strickly hard core instead of a moderate dose every week.



I messed up and did the same thing. Then avoided protein altogether. Big mistake.


----------



## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 3, 2009)

Patricia said:


> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE IF YOU FIND IT CAN YOU POST IT OR SEND IT TO ME



OK. Let's try these on for size:

The Fine Art of Protein and Moisture - great article written by our own Sistaslick. At the end of the article are moisture and protein conditioner recommendations.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html?page=7&cat=69

"To Clear the Air about Protein" - thread started by Supergirl (more great info about protein)
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=20494&

Light and Heavy Protein recommendation thread:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=47732%22


----------



## Artemis (Jan 3, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> I did my best, but hey, nice explanation. I know you are very knowledge about hair products.  And I never knew ceramides were lipids. Learn something new everyday. Do Joico products contain ceramides as well? How do you know when your hair may need lipids?



I believe it is due to patent circumstances, but the "ceramides" in Joico products are actually labeled as "glycolipids".

IME when doing my hair, if protein and moisture balances are ok, and I'm still having issues (such a styling problems), I will add [coconut] oil or a product that contains oils or ceramides to support the other things I'm doing. Either like a pre-poo, mixing it with my dc, or after I'm done styling.  Also, I found out that sometimes I don't even need to add moisturizer to my hair in between washes. This is why.


----------



## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 3, 2009)

Artemis said:


> I believe it is due to patent circumstances, but the "ceramides" in Joico products are actually labeled as "glycolipids".
> 
> IME when doing my hair, if protein and moisture balances are ok, and I'm still having issues (such a styling problems),* I will add [coconut] oil or a product that contains oils or ceramides to support the other things I'm doing*. Either like a pre-poo, mixing it with my dc, or after I'm done styling.  Also, I found out that sometimes I don't even need to add moisturizer to my hair in between washes. This is why.



Hmmmm.... this is really interesting. I wonder if this is why so many of the ladies on the board love using coconut oil? I promise I have tried everything on this board for my hair - randomly but still...  Maybe this is why my hair liked prepoos with vatika oil and rollersets (using only water and sealing with coconut oil) so much? And, like you noted, I rarely use moisturizer between washes. Hmmmm.... :scratchch: This is starting to make some sense now. Thanks.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 3, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> Hmmmm.... this is really interesting. I wonder if this is why so many of the ladies on the board love using coconut oil? I promise I have tried everything on this board for my hair - randomly but still...  Maybe this is why my hair liked prepoos with vatika oil and rollersets (using only water and sealing with coconut oil) so much? And, like you noted, I rarely use moisturizer between washes. Hmmmm.... :scratchch: This is starting to make some sense now. Thanks.



YW. Yeah coconut is one of the best things for the hair. It's a natural conditioner. 

In fact, let me link you to this article I've posted about before about oiling the hair--why we should do it and how to do it.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=71


----------



## meverllyn1 (Jan 3, 2009)

tell me........when it comes to protein and moisture, how do you know which one your hair needs.  I have notice, since i don't use protein as often as i used to, i have split ends now.....is it because i need more protein or moisture.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 3, 2009)

meverllyn1 said:


> tell me........when it comes to protein and moisture, how do you know which one your hair needs.  I have notice, since i don't use protein as often as i used to, i have split ends now.....is it because i need more protein or moisture.



This article should explain it for you. The author is a well-respected member of this board (Sistaslick)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html


----------



## Dposh167 (Jan 3, 2009)

ive been overly-moisturized 3x in 2008!!!!...all due to me avoiding protein. I only used it in the beginning of a stretch..and towards the end. That regimen held out ok....until i started a new regimen by cowashing 3-4x a week. that much conditioning means more protein needed. I didnt get it until it was too late. Luckily, i was able to get my hair back on track by incorporating light protein conditioners within my cowash regimen. And the reults are GREAT. Stronger hair and less breakage as a result and pays off. Now, i loooove protein conditioners. i think i have more protein products than moisture now


----------



## Napp (Jan 3, 2009)

yes my hair loves protien. i need to invest in more quality protien treatments. i do them once a week


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

ebonylocs said:


> I'm kinda different. From when I started visiting this site, read articles like SistaSlick's etc, I realised that my fine, porous strands need and tolerate quite a bit of light protein. This was even so (but to a slightly lesser extent) when my hair was natural. So since the beginning I've been using Aphogee 2 Min every week *like clockwork*, in addition to a moisturising conditioner.
> 
> The thing is, my hair doesn't seem to have a lot of elasticity. It's too brittle for my liking. And one time a few months ago, when I didn't use the Aphogee, my hair was sooo much easier to detangle - it felt a bit weaker, so I was scared of that and did a protein treatment a few days later, but while it lasted I liked the new softness and manageability.
> 
> So my question is, what protein conditioners give a super dose of strength, yet leave the hair pliable, elastic, silky and not stiff and brittle and tangly. (Not that the Aphogee is bad - I'm just wondering if it is the best for *my* hair.)


 DUOTEX made my hair strong yet silky.  I am really impressed with it.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

victorious said:


> *hangs head in shame.*
> 
> It took me almost *4* years to realize that.
> 
> ...


I know how you feel.  Seem like forever.  Yeah we need to rethink this protein thing and not be afraid to use it.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

poochie167 said:


> ive been overly-moisturized 3x in 2008!!!!...all due to me avoiding protein. I only used it in the beginning of a stretch..and towards the end. That regimen held out ok....until i started a new regimen by cowashing 3-4x a week. that much conditioning means more protein needed. I didnt get it until it was too late. Luckily, i was able to get my hair back on track by incorporating light protein conditioners within my cowash regimen. And the reults are GREAT. Stronger hair and less breakage as a result and pays off. Now, i loooove protein conditioners. i think i have more protein products than moisture now


Me too!   I have more protein products.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

Napp said:


> yes my hair loves protien. i need to invest in more quality protien treatments. i do them once a week


Yep once a week for me too


----------



## kblc06 (Jan 4, 2009)

Patricia said:


> After being on the boards about 2 years and obsessing with hair care. Guess what  I found out?
> ALL I NEEDED WAS PROTEIN!
> Darn shame.  plenty days of not combing cause my hair would break and come out.  No detangling in shower cause of excessive hair loss.  Cutting hair repeatly cause it was growing back thin.  Cutting back to neck length.............. You know that song.YOU JUST DO YOU , I MA DO ME, I MA DO ME, IMA DO ME.   That should have been out when I first started my journey.  I made so many mistakes listening to people who swear protein is the enemy!  My hair paid the price.   I'm good now cause I have been rebuilding my hair every week with a good dose of protein reconstructor of some type in my mane and tail.  The results has been strong hair that don't break and its not fragile anymore.  I'm not afraid to put in a ponytail or style anymore.
> Anyone else abused their hair by not using protein?
> ...



Even though I'm natural, I can't go more than 2 consecutive washes without protein; my hair gets stretchy and uber-fragile (more  than it already is).  If I had listened to people who said your hair only needs moisture and very little protein, I wouldn't have any hair on my head. DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

Artemis said:


> I believe it is due to patent circumstances, but the "ceramides" in Joico products are actually labeled as "glycolipids".
> 
> IME when doing my hair, if protein and moisture balances are ok, and I'm still having issues (such a styling problems), I will add [coconut] oil or a product that contains oils or ceramides to support the other things I'm doing. Either like a pre-poo, mixing it with my dc, or after I'm done styling. Also, I found out that sometimes I don't even need to add moisturizer to my hair in between washes. This is why.


 Girl you know everything about haircare.  I'm about to stalk you, I mean check out your fotki.  Thank you for this good info


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

kblc06 said:


> Even though I'm natural, I can't go more than 2 consecutive washes without protein; my hair gets stretchy and uber-fragile (more than it already is). If I had listened to people who said your hair only needs moisture and very little protein, I wouldn't have any hair on my head. DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!


You right.  I think It will be a couple years before I'll see my thickness again.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

Hope this thread helps someone out there with hair issues


----------



## Poodlepizzared (Jan 4, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Yep once a week for me too


 
Once a week for me too!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Lovestyr (Jan 4, 2009)

i have always been a protein eater , i have actually never done a protein teatment however my hair is thick regerplexedardless. i eat protein every day and sometimes i wil  drink a protein shake just for the heck of it . everyone is different i guess . i am curious about doing a protein treatment i asked my beautician once and she said that was for people whose hair was severly damaged and since was hair was healthy that i did t need one.


----------



## Poodlepizzared (Jan 4, 2009)

prettyeyez0724 said:


> i have always been a protein eater , i have actually never done a protein teatment however my hair is thick regerplexedardless. i eat protein every day and sometimes i wil drink a protein shake just for the heck of it . everyone is different i guess . i am curious about doing a protein treatment i asked my beautician once and she said that was for people whose hair was severly damaged and since was hair was healthy that i did t need one.


 
I drink protein shakes too. Your hair doesn't necessarily have to be damaged to get a protein treatment. My hair isn't damaged and I do a protein prepoo every week or every other week.


----------



## MizzBrown (Jan 4, 2009)

What about TIGI Dumb Blonde Reconstructor?

Is this considered light, medium or heavy? Do i need to use it like a mask and then follow up with a moisturizing condish?

The first time i tried it alone, it worked well...second time, hair was a little stiff and not that easy to detangle.


----------



## Ivy Santolina (Jan 4, 2009)

Patricia said:


> After being on the boards about 2 years and obsessing with hair care. Guess what  I found out?
> ALL I NEEDED WAS PROTEIN!
> Darn shame.  plenty days of not combing cause my hair would break and come out.  No detangling in shower cause of excessive hair loss.  Cutting hair repeatly cause it was growing back thin.  Cutting back to neck length.............. You know that song.YOU JUST DO YOU , I MA DO ME, I MA DO ME, IMA DO ME.   That should have been out when I first started my journey.  I made so many mistakes listening to people who swear protein is the enemy!  My hair paid the price.   I'm good now cause I have been rebuilding my hair every week with a good dose of protein reconstructor of some type in my mane and tail.  The results has been strong hair that don't break and its not fragile anymore.  I'm not afraid to put in a ponytail or style anymore.
> Anyone else abused their hair by not using protein?
> ...



Congratulations on your hair-discovery.  I just recently learned too that my hair needed a better balance of protein and moisture.  After reading Audrey Sivasothy's article on protein/moisture balance I instantly saw what I was doing wrong.  I was over moisturizing my hair to offset applying MegaTek on my scalp 3 times a week.  I wanted to ensure I didn't have protein overload but I made my hair too mushy.   I had the epiphany that the protein was only being applied to my scalp so there was no need to add *extra* moisture to the length of my hair.    So to correct my mistake I used the Nexxus Emergencee reconstructor as a pre-texturizer and pre-neutralizer protein treatment.  My hair responded very well to it.  Since those 2 protein treatments I have a lot less breakage even though I applied the texturizer when my hair wasn't in its strongest form.   BTW I got the idea to apply the protein prior to neutralizing my texturizer from Audrey too.  Here's a link to her article: Guide to Safely Applying Chemical Relaxers


----------



## mrshicks2002 (Jan 4, 2009)

Great thread. I am finding out more and more that my hair is loving protein. I am prepooing with vatika hair oil. Shampoo with Aphogee 2 Shampoo or Silk Elements. DConditioning with Aphogee 2 min once a week. Leave in Neutrogena Triple Moisture Following up with Aphogee green tea and keratin spray


----------



## MuslimahTresses (Jan 4, 2009)

OP, thanks for starting this thread. I just realized I haven't done a protien treatment in a while. I gotta subscribe to this thread.


----------



## angellazette (Jan 4, 2009)

Sounds like me.  I left Aphogee Keratin Reconstructor in my hair for two days recently because my hair was coming out in clumps in the shower.  I too was over moisturizing after using protein.  This time I used the Aphogee, and did a quick condition and that was it.  Hopefully I can get my hair back on track after my mishaps in 2008 (breakage to 1" in the back, clumps in the shower)


----------



## Prose Princess (Jan 4, 2009)

angellazette said:


> Sounds like me.  I left Aphogee Keratin Reconstructor in my hair for two days recently because my hair was coming out in clumps in the shower.  I too was over moisturizing after using protein.  This time I used the Aphogee, and did a quick condition and that was it.  Hopefully I can get my hair back on track after my mishaps in 2008 (breakage to 1" in the back, clumps in the shower)



You can do it!  Once you get that protein-moisture balance your hair will be growing like weeds!


----------



## magviv (Jan 4, 2009)

Amen Rev. Patricia!
My hair loves protein. I had a very similar experience as yours. I joined LHCF in fall 06 and jumped on all kinds of bandwagons with no progress and several setbacks including a severe allergic reaction to a bandwagon product. I did notice however that my hair behaved a lot better when I did the aphogee 2 step protein treatment the week before relaxing. Now I do the hard-core protein before relaxing, use the reconstructor before neutralizing, and in my weekly wash routine. In the past six months, I've seen significant progress. My hair was SL now I am an inch or two from bra strap length all due to protein.

I have two boxes bandwagon products that I'm going to give to my niece. I sometimes wonder why my hairstylist never suggested a protein treatment to me in all the years I was a customer. Oh well, that is water under the bridge. From now on it's protein all the way for me!


----------



## Noir (Jan 4, 2009)

Protein is UNDERrated on this board. 

My hair can not thrive without protein. I sometimes sleep in it.


----------



## Poodlepizzared (Jan 4, 2009)

magviv said:


> Amen Rev. Patricia!
> My hair loves protein. I had a very similar experience as yours. I joined LHCF in fall 06 and jumped on all kinds of bandwagons with no progress and several setbacks including a severe allergic reaction to a bandwagon product. I did notice however that my hair behaved a lot better when I did the aphogee 2 step protein treatment the week before relaxing. Now I do the hard-core protein before relaxing, use the reconstructor before neutralizing, and in my weekly wash routine. In the past six months, I've seen significant progress. My hair was SL now I am an inch or two from bra strap length all due to protein.
> 
> I have two boxes bandwagon products that I'm going to give to my niece. I sometimes wonder why my hairstylist never suggested a protein treatment to me in all the years I was a customer. Oh well, that is water under the bridge. From now on it's protein all the way for me!


 
Which is better, to protein once a week or biweekly, or once a month?


----------



## magviv (Jan 4, 2009)

Poodlepizzared,
I am adding the aphogee reconstructor to my moisturizing conditioner for my weekly wash for now. I had some breakage on one side and my hair has almost grown back even. I will probably cut back to alternate weeks once my hair has totally caught up with the other side.


----------



## Poodlepizzared (Jan 4, 2009)

magviv said:


> Poodlepizzared,
> I am adding the aphogee reconstructor to my moisturizing conditioner for my weekly wash for now. I had some breakage on one side and my hair has almost grown back even. I will probably cut back to alternate weeks once my hair has totally caught up with the other side.


 
I use the ORS hair mayo (protein), I haven't used it in 3 weeks. I'll use it this tuesday as part of my prepoo routine. I will start using it biweekly as oppose to a weekly routine like I use to.


----------



## ItsyBitsy (Jan 4, 2009)

MizzBrown said:


> *What about TIGI Dumb Blonde Reconstructor?*
> 
> Is this considered light, medium or heavy? Do i need to use it like a mask and then follow up with a moisturizing condish?
> 
> The first time i tried it alone, it worked well...second time, hair was a little stiff and not that easy to detangle.


 
I LOVE IT!!
This is the only protein conditioner that I use. I "think" its a light - medium on the protein scale. I have used it as an instant conditioner and a mask, both with great results. I've used it alone and followed it with Kenra MC.


----------



## Muse (Jan 4, 2009)

magviv said:


> Amen Rev. Patricia!
> My hair loves protein. I had a very similar experience as yours. *I joined LHCF in fall 06 and jumped on all kinds of bandwagons with no progress and several setbacks* including a severe allergic reaction to a bandwagon product. I did notice however that my hair behaved a lot better when I did the aphogee 2 step protein treatment the week before relaxing. Now I do the hard-core protein before relaxing, use the reconstructor before neutralizing, and in my weekly wash routine.* In the past six months, I've seen significant progress. My hair was SL now I am an inch or two from bra strap length all due to protein.*
> 
> I have two boxes bandwagon products that I'm going to give to my niece. I sometimes wonder why my hairstylist never suggested a protein treatment to me in all the years I was a customer. Oh well, that is water under the bridge. From now on it's protein all the way for me!



Thanks for sharing this because this is very inspirational. I am just starting my weekly protein with Joico K pak and when I first came here I wrecked my hair doing the bandwagon thing too. I have a lot more damage to recover from than when I first came here but I feel that I am finally on the right track with the protein thing and using the right product line. I am excited to hear that protein played a major role in getting you just inches away from brastrap length.


----------



## stardust1222 (Jan 4, 2009)

My hair would be lost without my weekly Redken protien treaments{CAT} and anti/snap and I mean that literaly.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

Poodlepizzared said:


> Once a week for me too!!!!!!!!!!!!


 Yes


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

prettyeyez0724 said:


> i have always been a protein eater , i have actually never done a protein teatment however my hair is thick regerplexedardless. i eat protein every day and sometimes i wil drink a protein shake just for the heck of it . everyone is different i guess . i am curious about doing a protein treatment i asked my beautician once and she said that was for people whose hair was severly damaged and since was hair was healthy that i did t need one.


 Good info  My hair was damaged so thats why I'm rebuilding my hair with treatments


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

MizzBrown said:


> What about TIGI Dumb Blonde Reconstructor?
> 
> Is this considered light, medium or heavy? Do i need to use it like a mask and then follow up with a moisturizing condish?
> 
> The first time i tried it alone, it worked well...second time, hair was a little stiff and not that easy to detangle.


 Hope someone knows the answer.  I'm not sure


----------



## Patricia (Jan 4, 2009)

Ivy Santolina said:


> Congratulations on your hair-discovery. I just recently learned too that my hair needed a better balance of protein and moisture. After reading Audrey Sivasothy's article on protein/moisture balance I instantly saw what I was doing wrong. I was over moisturizing my hair to offset applying MegaTek on my scalp 3 times a week. I wanted to ensure I didn't have protein overload but I made my hair too mushy.  I had the epiphany that the protein was only being applied to my scalp so there was no need to add *extra* moisture to the length of my hair.  So to correct my mistake I used the Nexxus Emergencee reconstructor as a pre-texturizer and pre-neutralizer protein treatment. My hair responded very well to it. Since those 2 protein treatments I have a lot less breakage even though I applied the texturizer when my hair wasn't in its strongest form.  BTW I got the idea to apply the protein prior to neutralizing my texturizer from Audrey too. Here's a link to her article: Guide to Safely Applying Chemical Relaxers


 Thank you for the links.  Good infomation. We on the right track now!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

mrshicks2002 said:


> Great thread. I am finding out more and more that my hair is loving protein. I am prepooing with vatika hair oil. Shampoo with Aphogee 2 Shampoo or Silk Elements. DConditioning with Aphogee 2 min once a week. Leave in Neutrogena Triple Moisture Following up with Aphogee green tea and keratin spray


 I use the NTM also.  Aphogee green tea is on my list of products to try along with the shampoo


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

MuslimahTresses said:


> OP, thanks for starting this thread. I just realized I haven't done a protien treatment in a while. I gotta subscribe to this thread.


 Cool hope this helps


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

angellazette said:


> Sounds like me. I left Aphogee Keratin Reconstructor in my hair for two days recently because my hair was coming out in clumps in the shower. I too was over moisturizing after using protein. This time I used the Aphogee, and did a quick condition and that was it. Hopefully I can get my hair back on track after my mishaps in 2008 (breakage to 1" in the back, clumps in the shower)


 WOW 2 days.  I hope you didn't damage it.  I been through the coming out in clumps in shower.    Try to incorporate a reconstructor everyweek.  duotex and sallys knockoff/joico kpac is great.  Try to slowly rebuild your hair.  Use it full strength the first couple times then dilute it in another conditioner


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

magviv said:


> Amen Rev. Patricia!
> My hair loves protein. I had a very similar experience as yours. I joined LHCF in fall 06 and jumped on all kinds of bandwagons with no progress and several setbacks including a severe allergic reaction to a bandwagon product. I did notice however that my hair behaved a lot better when I did the aphogee 2 step protein treatment the week before relaxing. Now I do the hard-core protein before relaxing, use the reconstructor before neutralizing, and in my weekly wash routine. In the past six months, I've seen significant progress. My hair was SL now I am an inch or two from bra strap length all due to protein.
> 
> I have two boxes bandwagon products that I'm going to give to my niece. I sometimes wonder why my hairstylist never suggested a protein treatment to me in all the years I was a customer. Oh well, that is water under the bridge. From now on it's protein all the way for me!


OH MY GOODNESS, WE LEARNED THE HARD WAY.  YOUR HAIR IS THRIVING ALMOST BSL.  GOD IS GOOD!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

Noir said:


> Protein is UNDERrated on this board.
> 
> My hair can not thrive without protein. I sometimes sleep in it.


I AGREE.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

stardust1222 said:


> My hair would be lost without my weekly Redken protien treaments{CAT} and anti/snap and I mean that literaly.


 ANTISNAP IS ON MY LIST OF PRODUCT TO BUY


----------



## MizzBrown (Jan 5, 2009)

Because of this thread i did a protein/moisture wash today.

Cowashed with a V05 Cheapie condish, put some Joico K-Pak Reconstructor on with a shower cap for about 15 minutes, rinsed out and applied AO Honeysuckle Rose.

I did a rollerset and im just gonna sleep in my rollers. I'll see if i have less breakage.

I think i'm gonna continue the protein/moisture thing at once on the SAME wash day and see how that helps.


----------



## locabouthair (Jan 5, 2009)

So what i got from reading this thread is that most of the ladies that use protein often have fine hair.

I have extremely coarse hair, when I used aphogee, the hard one, every two weeks, my became dry and broke off a lot. 

From what I understand, fine hair has less cuticle layers, which may be why the fine haired ladies, need more protein..Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Gymfreak, where you at?


----------



## FluffyRed (Jan 5, 2009)

MizzBrown said:


> What about TIGI Dumb Blonde Reconstructor?
> 
> Is this considered light, medium or heavy? Do i need to use it like a mask and then follow up with a moisturizing condish?
> 
> The first time i tried it alone, it worked well...second time, hair was a little stiff and not that easy to detangle.


 
I was just going to post about this.  This is FABULOUS for my color treated ends.  I mix it 50-50 with a cheapie moisture con, apply it like a relaxer, and dc for an hour or so.

This is the ONLY treatment that has strengthened my colortreated ends!!!  they don't snap when I pull the shed strands.  they stretch!!!

My other light proteins are in my siggy.

I always use protein and moisture mixed together, at every cowash, wash or rollerset step.

So that's 

Infusium + rusk smoother in the spray bottle for rollersetting/misting

Allsoft + realcontrol for cowash

Garnier fructis + cheapie moisture con for cowash

Dumb Blonde reconstructor + cheapie moisture con for cowash


----------



## 1god1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Got this from BHM......


Here is a handy guide for understanding the different types of protein products.

All proteins are strengthening proteins to some degree but here are the more specific characteristics of these proteins:

*Collagen Protein*--known for increasing elasticity in the hair 

*Silk Protein*--known for softening the hair 

*Wheat Protein*--a moisturizing and strengthening protein. known for increasing the hair's ability to maintain & receive moisture also. 

*Keratin Protein*--responsible for keeping the hair strong and pliable. This is the strongest of the(hair product) proteins and is actually the one that hair is made from. This one re-structures hair that has been damaged or broken down by chemicals. It helps to replace the amino acid cysteine which is the main one lost during chemical processing. This is the heavy duty protein. If you see the following as an ingredient 

**Vegetable protein* -- Vegetable protein absorbs more easily into the hair shaft [than animal protein] and does not create build-up, leaves the hair very shiny, radiant, luxuriant, and healthy.

**Animal protein* -- Animal protein breaks down into fatty acids, which coat the hair and create residual build-up.

*Silk Amino Acids/Protein*--Natural silk is the strongest, natural fiber known to mankind. Discovered in Japan and has been used for centuries in all kinds of products that require durability. Silk has a tiny molecule that can penetrate the entire hair shaft deeper than all other proteins without adding any weight leaving the hair feeling clean and non-greasy
*Keratin protein More Indept:*

**a) Keratin protein*--this will re-structure and strengthen the hair cuticle (the outer layer only & the most important layer) 

The keratin in some reconstructors should not leave your hair hard like the Aphogee Treatment for damaged hair (which contains hydrolyzed animal protein). This treatment hardens on your hair for a reason and is used with mild heat. A moisturizing conditioner is a must with this in order to soften like Keracare's humecto.

Reconstructors that contain keratin and other proteins are supposed to have enough moisture to soften the hair therefore leaving your hair with a nice protein/moisture balance." 


** Hydrolyzed Keratin Protein or Keratin Amino Acids--*this means that the Keratin molecules have been broken down and are small enough to go beyond the cuticle and penetrate the hair shaft. It will strengthen all 3 layers of the hair. That is why the term "deep conditioning" technically only refers to this kind of treatment using penetrating proteins. 

**c) Hydrolyzed Human Hair Keratin*--This is an exact match for the keratin your hair has (or has lot due to chemical processing). This is the highest quality and most potent keratin that can be used in hair products.


----------



## babyhurr4 (Jan 5, 2009)

I discovered the same thing about my hair! Protein does it some good, only if I use it like every 2-6 weeks though...I can't use too much protein and my hair works wonders with some oil and water, lol....of course I would use the oil to seal the moisture in, that is.  I can't do too much moisture either, or I'll begin to shed somewhat....I'll moisturize atleast every other day to every two days.  Moisturizing everyday and sealing with oil everyday lead to too much build up on my hair...so I'm learning that less is more for me.


----------



## angellazette (Jan 5, 2009)

Patricia said:


> WOW 2 days.  I hope you didn't damage it.  I been through the coming out in clumps in shower.    Try to incorporate a reconstructor everyweek.  duotex and sallys knockoff/joico kpac is great.  Try to slowly rebuild your hair.  Use it full strength the first couple times then dilute it in another conditioner




I don't think I damaged it.  Although it's only been about a week or so since I did it, my hair feels great.  I started to buy the hardcore Aphogee but figured I'd use what I had and it seems to have done the trick.  I mean I've tried it all...mixing reconstructor with conditioner, applying them one at a time and my hair would still break.  I definitely plan to pay attention to my hair and base the frequency and duration of the Aphogee Keratin Reconstructor usage on what my hair tells me.  But of course I've known for years that my hair loves protein, but here comes the product reviews and thinking I could replace x with y and be ok.  I need to start sticking to what works.  Not saying others aren't good (love Kpak poo with Aveda DR condish) but some things just shouldn't change!  I used to love Ion Repair Solutions Hair Reconstructor Treatment .


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

MizzBrown said:


> Because of this thread i did a protein/moisture wash today.
> 
> Cowashed with a V05 Cheapie condish, put some Joico K-Pak Reconstructor on with a shower cap for about 15 minutes, rinsed out and applied AO Honeysuckle Rose.
> 
> ...


Let us know how it works out for you


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> So what i got from reading this thread is that most of the ladies that use protein often have fine hair.
> 
> I have extremely coarse hair, when I used aphogee, the hard one, every two weeks, my became dry and broke off a lot.
> 
> ...


Good question.  hmmmm I wonder if this just for fine hair ladies.  Maybe someone can help.  Ok question for you.  You use aphogee every 2 weeks?  My hair would probably break off too if I used it that much.  I think the hardcore is made for one time every 6-8 weeks.  I actually had a protein overload on aphoghee.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

choppybob said:


> I was just going to post about this. This is FABULOUS for my color treated ends. I mix it 50-50 with a cheapie moisture con, apply it like a relaxer, and dc for an hour or so.
> 
> This is the ONLY treatment that has strengthened my colortreated ends!!! they don't snap when I pull the shed strands. they stretch!!!
> 
> ...


Good to know


----------



## Aggie (Jan 5, 2009)

Patricia said:


> After being on the boards about 2 years and obsessing with hair care. Guess what I found out?
> ALL I NEEDED WAS PROTEIN!
> Darn shame. plenty days of not combing cause my hair would break and come out. No detangling in shower cause of excessive hair loss. Cutting hair repeatly cause it was growing back thin. Cutting back to neck length.............. You know that song.YOU JUST DO YOU , I MA DO ME, I MA DO ME, IMA DO ME. That should have been out when I first started my journey.  I made so many mistakes listening to people who swear protein is the enemy! My hair paid the price. I'm good now cause I have been rebuilding my hair every week with a good dose of protein reconstructor of some type in my mane and tail. The results has been strong hair that don't break and its not fragile anymore. I'm not afraid to put in a ponytail or style anymore.
> Anyone else abused their hair by not using protein?
> ...


 
I totally agree with you Patricia. My hair has suffered from the lack of using ample protein on my hair and since having started adding more of it into my regimen, my hair is thriving a whole lot better. I don't know if that's because my hair is fine and I am relaxed, but all I know is that my hair loves protein and so  now I try to incorporate it almost each time I  DC my hair. Sometimes I keepit really mild and other times I kick it a notch into moderate protein application. The hardcore protein treatment I find, I don't necessarily have to use anymore as a result which is perfect for me.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 5, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> So what i got from reading this thread is that most of the ladies that use protein often have fine hair.
> 
> I have extremely coarse hair, *when I used aphogee, the hard one, every two weeks,* my became dry and broke off a lot.
> 
> ...



Um, why on earth would you do something like that?! 
The bottle says specifically to use every 4 to 6 wks.

Fine hair has less cuticle layers, so it is naturally weaker than coarse hair. Using more protein (correctly!!!!) gives fine hair more structure, making it more durable and less prone to breakage.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

1god1 said:


> Got this from BHM......
> 
> 
> Here is a handy guide for understanding the different types of protein products.
> ...


 Yeah I copied and pasted this info in my fotki journals so I can have access to it.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

babyhurr4 said:


> I discovered the same thing about my hair! Protein does it some good, only if I use it like every 2-6 weeks though...I can't use too much protein and my hair works wonders with some oil and water, lol....of course I would use the oil to seal the moisture in, that is. I can't do too much moisture either, or I'll begin to shed somewhat....I'll moisturize atleast every other day to every two days. Moisturizing everyday and sealing with oil everyday lead to too much build up on my hair...so I'm learning that less is more for me.


I have cut down on moisturizing too.  Couple times a week tops


----------



## Aggie (Jan 5, 2009)

1god1 said:


> Got this from BHM......
> 
> 
> Here is a handy guide for understanding the different types of protein products.
> ...


 
Thank you so much - I just copied and pasted this onto a Word document to add to my hair binder. Love it.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

angellazette said:


> I don't think I damaged it. Although it's only been about a week or so since I did it, my hair feels great. I started to buy the hardcore Aphogee but figured I'd use what I had and it seems to have done the trick. I mean I've tried it all...mixing reconstructor with conditioner, applying them one at a time and my hair would still break. I definitely plan to pay attention to my hair and base the frequency and duration of the Aphogee Keratin Reconstructor usage on what my hair tells me. But of course I've known for years that my hair loves protein, but here comes the product reviews and thinking I could replace x with y and be ok. I need to start sticking to what works. Not saying others aren't good (love Kpak poo with Aveda DR condish) but some things just shouldn't change! I used to love Ion Repair Solutions Hair Reconstructor Treatment .


 Glad to hear that it worked for you.  I was eyeing the Ion reconstructor.  Girl you bout to have me buying some stuff.  You know I havent tried aphogee reconstructor or the Ion.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

Aggie said:


> I totally agree with you Patricia. My hair has suffered from the lack of using ample protein on my hair and since having started adding more of it into my regimen, my hair is thriving a whole lot better. I don't know if that's because my hair is fine and I am relaxed, but all I know is that my hair loves protein and so now I try to incorporate it almost each time I DC my hair. Sometimes I keepit really mild and other times I kick it a notch into moderate protein application. The hardcore protein treatment I find, I don't necessarily have to use anymore as a result which is perfect for me.


 You know I'm a fan of your progress.  Good to know we all found out before it was to late.


----------



## magviv (Jan 5, 2009)

Patricia said:


> OH MY GOODNESS, WE LEARNED THE HARD WAY. YOUR HAIR IS THRIVING ALMOST BSL. GOD IS GOOD!


 
You're absolutely right! I really had become *so discouraged* that I was about to give up thinking that it just wasn't going to happen for this 4b relaxed head but just in the nick of time -- protein!


----------



## locabouthair (Jan 5, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Good question.  hmmmm I wonder if this just for fine hair ladies.  Maybe someone can help.  Ok question for you.  You use aphogee every 2 weeks?  My hair would probably break off too if I used it that much.  I think the hardcore is made for one time every 6-8 weeks.  I actually had a protein overload on aphoghee.






Artemis said:


> Um, why on earth would you do something like that?!
> The bottle says specifically to use every 4 to 6 wks.
> 
> Fine hair has less cuticle layers, so it is naturally weaker than coarse hair. Using more protein (correctly!!!!) gives fine hair more structure, making it more durable and less prone to breakage.



When I did this, I was 16, 5 years before I came to LHCF. I knew NOTHING about moisture, my hairdresser knew my hair kept breaking so she gave me aphogee every other week. My hair broke off badly after that. My hair was never the same since.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> When I did this, I was 16, 5 years before I came to LHCF. I knew NOTHING about moisture, my hairdresser knew my hair kept breaking so she gave me aphogee every other week. My hair broke off badly after that. My hair was never the same since.


Really, That proves a point that we can do just as well as a hairdresser.  Even better.  Are you on track now?


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 5, 2009)

Noir said:


> Protein is UNDERrated on this board.
> 
> My hair can not thrive without protein. I sometimes sleep in it.



AMEN!!!! AMEN!!!!! CHURCH!!!!


Everyone is moisture happy on this board and then we wonder why we get really bad thinning down the length as it grows. If you use a lye relaxer you need conditioners that are a balance of moisture and protein. That is where the myth of moisture only came from, the whole box relaxer usage. If you are using no lye, you need more moisture than a lye relaxer user. 

Moisture and Protein balance isn't about swinging to each extreme. You shouldn't try to go from super mushy to super hard. Its too much stress on the hair and that is what causes weak spots, split ends, thinning and breakage. Moisture swells the hair strand. I know everyone is moisture happy but if you are moisturizing daily, deep conditioning with moisture at every wash for an hour, and cowashing with moisture every 2 days, you are doing too much. All you are doing is stretching out your hair and setting yourself up for breakage and thinning. If your hair doesn't have enough protein, it won't hold any moisture. If you keep having to keep buying more and more moisture products looking for higher and higher levels of moisture, you need protein.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 5, 2009)

:notworthy





gymfreak336 said:


> AMEN!!!! AMEN!!!!! CHURCH!!!!
> 
> 
> Everyone is moisture happy on this board and then we wonder why we get really bad thinning down the length as it grows. If you use a lye relaxer you need conditioners that are a balance of moisture and protein. That is where the myth of moisture only came from, the whole box relaxer usage. If you are using no lye, you need more moisture than a lye relaxer user.
> ...


:notworthy  You summed it all up.  
That is the main reason I had to stop the daily moisture.  By the time wash day comes around my hair is back mushy. I was defeating the purpose of DCing with protein


----------



## deltagyrl (Jan 5, 2009)

Bells are going off.  I should've been MBL by now...

Will try protein this weekend.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 5, 2009)

I also just wanted to add that if you have tried a million protein treatments and you are using your favorite moisturizing conditioner and your hair is always hard, that is not the protein's fault. That is your moisturizing conditioners fault.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 5, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> AMEN!!!! AMEN!!!!! CHURCH!!!!
> 
> 
> Everyone is moisture happy on this board and then we wonder why we get really bad thinning down the length as it grows. If you use a lye relaxer you need conditioners that are a balance of moisture and protein. That is where the myth of moisture only came from, the whole box relaxer usage. If you are using no lye, you need more moisture than a lye relaxer user.
> ...



Also if your hair is stretched beyond repair, protein can only do so much. Staying consistent with reconstructors helps prevent too much natural protein loss over time (weathering of the cuticle). By definition, reconstructors and straight protein treatments fill in the cracks of the hair shaft that occur from protein loss (which then incites moisture loss). So if your hair is stretched 50x its natural threshold, you can try to repair it over time but if it still doesn't resolve all of the issue, don't go back to the excessive moisture treatments. It'll just be time for a trim.


----------



## Aggie (Jan 5, 2009)

Patricia said:


> You know I'm a fan of your progress. Good to know we all found out before it was to late.


 
You are a doll. Thank you sweetie.


----------



## Muse (Jan 6, 2009)

Artemis said:


> *Also if your hair is stretched beyond repair, protein can only do so much.* Staying consistent with reconstructors helps prevent too much natural protein loss over time (weathering of the cuticle). By definition, reconstructors and straight protein treatments fill in the cracks of the hair shaft that occur from protein loss (which then incites moisture loss). So if your hair is stretched 50x its natural threshold, you can try to repair it over time but if it still doesn't resolve all of the issue, don't go back to the excessive moisture treatments. *It'll just be time for a trim.*



I'm glad you said this because I've just started doing weekly K-pak and it seems I'm getting more breakage but only on my SUPER over processed AND heat damaged relaxed ends. At first I got discouraged and felt like the reconstructor wasn't working but then I thought my ends are just at the point of no return and it's time for them to GO!

I am transitioning and my natural hair seems fine so I don't really think I can judge protein treatments correctly if I go by MY ends because they are hopeless. I am no longer focused on repairing the ends but in keeping the new virgin hair strong.


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

I love this thread so much! It's one of my favs since I've been on the board. 



bbdgirl said:


> you may not need a hard/heavy protein but just more treatments of light/medium protein treatments.
> I don't use the 2-step Ahpogee but the 2 minute Aphogee treatment, it is very effective.
> They are others to try like:
> Motions CPR
> ...


 
Okay, I never thought to try the Aphoghee 2 min treatment. That 2 step had me shook! I never knew that Coconut Oil is considered a light protein. I've used it on and off for a while now.



Rain20 said:


> My fine hair loves protein also. I use egg in conditioner, aphogee 2 min reconstructor, or Mega-Tek. I switch it up. I have trouble with hydrolyzed collagen and sometimes certain products with hydrolyzed keratin. Maybe fine hair needs more protein.


 
Why do you have trouble with Hydolyzed Collagen? What does it do to your hair?



Patricia said:


> I have used aphoghee 2 step also but I got turned off when my breakage would reoccur. Now I just put a dose of protein reconstructor of some sort in my weekly routine. Aphogee is a good product but sometimes you can get a protein overload off it. Let me know how the CON Reconstructor works for you . GVP/Joico kpac and ultrasheen duotex is good also.


 
I liked the CON Reconstructor but I'm not sure it feels like its supposed to...like, what should I expect? I also have Duo Tex already, I've used it since March but I only used it as a midstep protein treatment when I relax (lye).

BTW, where's the "Protein is your friend" Challenge? I want to join!


----------



## MyHeavenlyFatherKnows (Jan 6, 2009)

So glad you had a protein revelation.  As a black woman I was always told about MOISTURE but not about protein!  I remember I once deep conditioned the mess out of my hair.  When I was done it was soft...and every time I shook my head pieces would fall to the ground or on my shirt.  I got on this forum and realized I had tipped the balance too far, immediately bought some Aphogee treatment and the soft breakage stopped!  I told my stylist about this and even she was not a believer.  She basically told me I was misinformed and that moisture would never do such a thing.... NO more 1hr moisture treatment cocktails for me!


----------



## Jassy28 (Jan 6, 2009)

So, can my hair need more protein and not feel mushy? My hair is fragile and I have daily breakage...could protein be the issue?


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

I think I may go back to Biolage products for protein. I used them a few years back and my hair thrived so well. I mean, it literally grew back from a short pixie to almost APL in like a year. My hair is doing well now but not as well as when I used Biolage. I have some things to think about.


----------



## Stella B. (Jan 6, 2009)

Thanks for the reminder about protein!!  I use the 2 minute aphogee at least once a month, but after reading this post, I know I should up it to at least every other week.  I'm still searching for the correct balance of moisture and protein for my hair, even after a year! I notice that if I use protein as a part of pre-pooing, then I need to add extra moisture during deep conditioning. Yesterday at the bss, a young sales lady said to me that if you need protein, then think Aphogee, cause all their products have protein in them.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 6, 2009)

Jassy28 said:


> So, can my hair need more protein and not feel mushy? My hair is fragile and I have daily breakage...could protein be the issue?


 
Yeah, you may want to consider using a protein-based shampoo, like Joico K-pak or Aphogee shampoo for damaged hair.


----------



## locabouthair (Jan 6, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Really, That proves a point that we can do just as well as a hairdresser.  Even better.  *Are you on track now?*



im getting there. I'm still trying to repair damage from a stylist I went to last year. Im only going to stylist for rollersets now. I'm doing my own relaxers.

I think I'm the only one who was stressed the importance of protein. When I came to the board, I was like moisture what? Hence, my protein overload.

I've never had mushy hair, I dont even know what that feels like.

This moisture/protein balance can be hard at times.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

deltagyrl said:


> Bells are going off. I should've been MBL by now...
> 
> Will try protein this weekend.


I feel I should have been Waist by now


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> I also just wanted to add that if you have tried a million protein treatments and you are using your favorite moisturizing conditioner and your hair is always hard, that is not the protein's fault. That is your moisturizing conditioners fault.


 
OK ITS OFFICIAL!  YOU AND ARTEMIS ARE THE EXPERTS I NEED TO FOLLOW FOR ALL MY HAIRCARE NEEDS.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

daephae said:


> I love this thread so much! It's one of my favs since I've been on the board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 SO MANY LADIES WITH THE SAME ISSUES. I WOULD JOIN TOO!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

MyHeavenlyFatherKnows said:


> So glad you had a protein revelation. As a black woman I was always told about MOISTURE but not about protein! I remember I once deep conditioned the mess out of my hair. When I was done it was soft...and every time I shook my head pieces would fall to the ground or on my shirt. I got on this forum and realized I had tipped the balance too far, immediately bought some Aphogee treatment and the soft breakage stopped! I told my stylist about this and even she was not a believer. She basically told me I was misinformed and that moisture would never do such a thing.... NO more 1hr moisture treatment cocktails for me!


  WOWSERS WE ALL HAVE SOME HAIR HORROR STORIES


----------



## natural2008 (Jan 6, 2009)

I got my first protein treatment last week at the shop because my hair was breaking off and that was not normal.  I plan to do the aphogee protein treatment this week.  My questions is should I do the Aphogee protein two times a month and the 2 min reconstruction every week when I wash my hair?  I am soooo excited about Aphogee now.


----------



## Spidergul (Jan 6, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> I'm about to up my protein usage big-time because I'm experiencing so much breakage.  *I didn't before because I didn't have a good moisturizing conditioner to combat the stiffness that the protein leaves in my hair. * But now that I do, I'm all about some protein!



I am so confused. i have been on this board for a while now and my hair has gone from pretty good to worse after all the products I have purchased over the years.  either I am not giving them enough time to work or they are just not for me.    My hair has broken off so bad these last few months, I told my husband I will be bald by the end of 2008 at this rate.  I have NO IDEA why?  Too much protein, not enough moisture, hard water-IDK!  My husband says I use way too many products.   I have rid my coffers of all products.  But I still don't know what direction to take. erplexed But I did think my hair did not need protein. erplexed Back in the day, I used CON the old formula, BB grease, pink lotion and pantene-the one for clear woman and my hair was the bomb, now it is a bomb. They no longer make the perm I swore by from revlon.  I can't even remember the name.erplexed Over the holidays, I decided to just cut off the stringy ends and start fresh.  

Sorry I hyjacked your thread.I just had to get that off my chest.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> I got my first protein treatment last week at the shop because my hair was breaking off and that was not normal. I plan to do the aphogee protein treatment this week. My questions is should I do the Aphogee protein two times a month and the 2 min reconstruction every week when I wash my hair? I am soooo excited about Aphogee now.


I THINK THE 2 STEP APHOGEE IS MADE TO USE EVERY 6 TO 8 WEEKS.  USING IT MORE THAN THAT WILL SURELY CAUSE BREAKAGE.  I TRIED TO USE THE TWO STEP EVERY MONTH AND HAD A PROTEIN OVERLOAD.  MY HAIR WAS BREAKING LIKE CRAZY.  THEN I WENT TO THE EXTREME OF NOT USING PROTEIN AT ALL.  WORST CHOICE OF ALL.  I AM NOW HAVING GREAT RESULTS USING PROTEIN WEEKLY.  MIX PROTEIN WITH MOISTURE CONDITIONERS REALLY WORKS


----------



## locabouthair (Jan 6, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> I got my first protein treatment last week at the shop because my hair was breaking off and that was not normal.  I plan to do the aphogee protein treatment this week.  My questions is should I do the Aphogee protein two times a month and the 2 min reconstruction every week when I wash my hair?  I am soooo excited about Aphogee now.



I think that might be too much protein.


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> I got my first protein treatment last week at the shop because my hair was breaking off and that was not normal. I plan to do the aphogee protein treatment this week. My questions is should I do the Aphogee protein two times a month and the 2 min reconstruction every week when I wash my hair? I am soooo excited about Aphogee now.


 
The Aphogee 2 step (hard protein) is very strong. I would only recommend it once every 4-6 weeks. I only used it ONCE  (it was a disaster like you wouldn't believe)...I never used it again. Be careful and make sure you have something Ultra, ultra moisturizing on hand to use afterward. You'll need it.


----------



## natural2008 (Jan 6, 2009)

should I do the 2 step treatment ever 2 months and the reconstructor every week or two times a month?


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> should I do the 2 step treatment ever 2 months and the reconstructor every week or two times a month?


 
From what I've researched, a lot of ladies are using it at every other wash (which may be once a week if they wash 2x a week).


----------



## Spidergul (Jan 6, 2009)

Muse said:


> Wow that's funny because I just posted in another thread how I planned on using Joico K pak on my natural hair every week because I'm just realizing that I may have naturally weaker hair that's just more prone to breakage even if I don't relax, use heat,etc. Since using Joico products my hair doesn't feel as delicate, I can only imagine the lengths I'll be able to get incorporating this stuff.
> 
> *I know what you mean though when I first came here I jumped on every bandwagon and ruined my hair even more I was afraid of the protein overload stories so I steered clear and decided to do low mani instead which was a mistake cuz I had so MANY knots and tangles and I'm thinking "I should be able to comb my hair whenever I want without issues, this is ridiculous!"*I know it took 2 years for you but at least you found it, now you can grow to greater lengths!



Hallauiah!!!


----------



## Spidergul (Jan 6, 2009)

OK Ladies-Help me out with a GREAT moisturing conditioner plz!


----------



## Muse (Jan 6, 2009)

I am all about Joico Moisture Recovery Balm!


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 6, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> I got my first protein treatment last week at the shop because my hair was breaking off and that was not normal.  I plan to do the aphogee protein treatment this week.  My questions is should I do the Aphogee protein two times a month and the 2 min reconstruction every week when I wash my hair?  I am soooo excited about Aphogee now.



Was your hair breaking before the treatment at the salon hence the reason why you got it done? 

If your hair was breaking before the treatment and is still breaking now, you need to do a strand test. From there you can determine what you need. Depending on how bad the breakage was before the first protein treatment, you might not need a very strong protein treatment now. This would be a good time to start using cream reconstructors that are protein based but still have moisturizing qualities.


----------



## Spidergul (Jan 6, 2009)

Patricia said:


> *I was so depressed cause it seemed like my hair was in better shape before the boards.  This experience was a blessing because I now know about my hair.  I thought I knew about my hair before the boards. No more bandwagons for me ever ever ever ever.............[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Again Hallaiuah!!  I think I have ruin my daughters hair as well using the indian products.  I am so sad sad over this.  My hair is one thing hers is...


----------



## CenteredGirl (Jan 6, 2009)

It took me 6 years!  Oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.  But my hair is really awesome now.  Been playing with different types of proteins:  eggs, keratin, soy, silk, wheat.  Wonderful.


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Jan 6, 2009)

CenteredGirl said:


> It took me 6 years! Oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. But my hair is really awesome now. Been playing with different types of proteins: eggs, keratin, soy, silk, wheat. Wonderful.


 

LORD - Where have you been?????????????


----------



## bbdgirl (Jan 6, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> So what i got from reading this thread is that most of the ladies that use protein often have fine hair.
> 
> I have extremely coarse hair, when I used aphogee, the hard one, every two weeks, my became dry and broke off a lot.
> 
> ...


 

I agree I came to that same conclusion myself  and I have fine.med hair as well.


----------



## sqzbly1908 (Jan 6, 2009)

This is such a great thread - 

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER - GETTING EMPOWERED FOR THE '09!!!


----------



## Prose Princess (Jan 6, 2009)

Spidergul said:


> OK Ladies-Help me out with a GREAT moisturing conditioner plz!



This may change because I don't like ordering things offline and I need more cost effective products since I've been a PJ for the last 3 months erplexed, but right now I mix:
50% Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose
50% Hairveda's Sitrinillah DC Mask
About 6-8 drops of essential peppermint oil
About 6-8 drops of essential rosemary oil

I apply it to my scalp and new growth first, then to the rest of my hair and sit under the dryer for one hour.  Since I started using this mixture my hair has started to accept moisture rather than it just sitting on top of my hair, and I don't get the itchies anymore!   I love the tingly feeling too .  This mixture is the only thing I have found that really works for my hair, but I highly recommend Giovanni Smooth As Silk also.  I could use that straight and it would moisturize my hair pretty well, and add slip.  HTH!


----------



## ImaBoss (Jan 6, 2009)

well being that I just started my healthy hair growth Im not 100% sure what I have discovered about my hair, but what I am sure about is: This is a great thread, This is great board with a lot of good information for newbies like me and i'm so glad I discovered it. Thanks Ladies


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

Spidergul said:


> I am so confused. i have been on this board for a while now and my hair has gone from pretty good to worse after all the products I have purchased over the years.  either I am not giving them enough time to work or they are just not for me.  My hair has broken off so bad these last few months, I told my husband I will be bald by the end of 2008 at this rate. I have NO IDEA why?  Too much protein, not enough moisture, hard water-IDK! My husband says I use way too many products. I have rid my coffers of all products. But I still don't know what direction to take. erplexed But I did think my hair did not need protein. erplexed Back in the day, I used CON the old formula, BB grease, pink lotion and pantene-the one for clear woman and my hair was the bomb, now it is a bomb. They no longer make the perm I swore by from revlon. I can't even remember the name.erplexed Over the holidays, I decided to just cut off the stringy ends and start fresh.
> Sorry I hyjacked your thread.I just had to get that off my chest


You are so welcome to comment.  you not hyjacking this thread.  I just feel so good I have someone to cry to.
I know how you feel.  I cut my hair a few times and my hair is so thin compared to what it should be.  It will take a few years to get my thickness back  .  I guess I can say better late than never.  I feel ya


----------



## soulie (Jan 6, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> Try using a lighter protein every week instead like Nexxus Keraphix. It never leaves my hair hard or stiff.


 
I just made the protein discovery about a month ago!  I bought the Keraphix while I was on vacation and my hair INSTANTLY improved; I've been using it weekly and I think my hair is at its best now.  I'm wondering if I even need my monthly Emergencee treatment now.


----------



## kandegirl (Jan 6, 2009)

Great post. I've been using the hard core Aprhogee for years every 6-8 weeks but I would still get some breakage. I find my hair is doing better using the 2 minute aphogee every week and still use the hard core one every few months. The weekly protein is rebuilding my hair and a hair dresser told me once when I got highlights to use a recontructor every week to rebuild my hair for two months. Now I'm following that age old advice again!


----------



## Muse (Jan 6, 2009)

The people at Joico said the Kpak reconstructor can be used 2-3xs per week? Whose hair can take that much? Are they aware of protein overload? I mean even if you have the most damaged hair isn't 2-3xs/wk a lot? 

I am the type to follow directions to a T when it comes to how I use the product and how long I use them, so when I read 2-3xs/wk and they sent me an email restating this I almost started to do it that often but I backed off and just did once a week because of overload. 

Does anyone agree with Joico and think that 2-3xs/wk is ok? I assume Joico knows their stuff when it comes to hair so maybe it's ok...


----------



## Golden75 (Jan 6, 2009)

Does anyone agree with Joico and think that 2-3xs/wk is ok? I assume Joico knows their stuff when it comes to hair so maybe it's ok...[/quote]

Guess it depends on the hair, its tolerance, and the strength of the protein.  Never heard of protein overload til I got here, and I think I was infected! My hair was snap, cracking, and popping.  When I thought about the products I've used over the years (and there were plenty) they were all protein based. Why? Cuz I read protein is good for hair, but the second part of moisture was not attached to those statements.  So since I have been watching my protein intake and upping moisture my hair is doing so much better.  I usually use a moderate protein DC 2x per month (when I clarify & one if I'm experiencing extra breakage). But I am also using MT which is protein. So I think once you find that balance, you won't need protein as often. Is K-pak considered a heavy protein? I would think 2-3x a week is excessive if its hardcore and your hair is not necessarily damaged.


----------



## natural2008 (Jan 6, 2009)

Hello GymFreak,
My hair was not braking before getting the protein treatment.  I noticed the breakage after I got my texturizer touched up.  My hair has never broken/shedd like that and I was going crazy.


----------



## Muse (Jan 6, 2009)

Golden75 said:


> Does anyone agree with Joico and think that 2-3xs/wk is ok? I assume Joico knows their stuff when it comes to hair so maybe it's ok...


 
Guess it depends on the hair, its tolerance, and the strength of the protein.  Never heard of protein overload til I got here, and I think I was infected! My hair was snap, cracking, and popping.  When I thought about the products I've used over the years (and there were plenty) they were all protein based. Why? Cuz I read protein is good for hair, but the second part of moisture was not attached to those statements.  So since I have been watching my protein intake and upping moisture my hair is doing so much better.  I usually use a moderate protein DC 2x per month (when I clarify & one if I'm experiencing extra breakage). But I am also using MT which is protein. So I think once you find that balance, you won't need protein as often. *Is K-pak considered a heavy protein?* I would think 2-3x a week is excessive if its hardcore and your hair is not necessarily damaged.[/quote]

I think it would go in the moderate category. I'm going to call Joico and ask them.


----------



## naturalgurl (Jan 6, 2009)

Patricia said:


> After being on the boards about 2 years and obsessing with hair care. Guess what I found out?
> ALL I NEEDED WAS PROTEIN!
> Darn shame. plenty days of not combing cause my hair would break and come out. No detangling in shower cause of excessive hair loss. Cutting hair repeatly cause it was growing back thin. Cutting back to neck length.............. *You know that song.YOU JUST DO YOU , I MA DO ME, I MA DO ME, IMA DO ME. That should have been out when I first started my journey.  I made so many mistakes listening to people who swear protein is the enemy! My hair paid the price.* I'm good now cause I have been rebuilding my hair every week with a good dose of protein reconstructor of some type in my mane and tail. The results has been strong hair that don't break and its not fragile anymore. I'm not afraid to put in a ponytail or style anymore.
> Anyone else abused their hair by not using protein?
> ...


 
I've learned that here as well. People raved about how certain products brought their hair back to life. Me, like a fool was out buying this stuff in BULK and left with hair in the sink STILL! Needless to say, I found what MY hair likes and we've been friends again ever since!(I'm a high moisture/low protein gal) Glad to know you figured yours out. We can't be afraid to go off the path and see what OUR needs are versus what others need.


----------



## JerriBlank (Jan 6, 2009)

Wow!I'm just seeing this thread,but i have pretty much been having the same issue.This is why i bought some MOP extreme protein,because its time for my hair to get a good dose(and aphogee was not doing it for some reason).

I'm dc'ing with this today,followed by a cheapie coconut dc i picked up,or some Tigi Oatmeal and honey treatment,and a rollerset.
I hope this works,because i know my hair needs the protein.


----------



## JerriBlank (Jan 6, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> This may change because I don't like ordering things offline and I need more cost effective products since I've been a PJ for the last 3 months erplexed, but right now I mix:
> 50% Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose
> 50% Hairveda's Sitrinillah DC Mask
> About 6-8 drops of essential peppermint oil
> ...


What are you getting off the internet hun?
I see that you're in ky,and you could pick all of these up,except for the Hairveda,from Whole Foods.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 6, 2009)

Muse said:


> *The people at Joico said the Kpak reconstructor can be used 2-3xs per week?* Whose hair can take that much? Are they aware of protein overload? I mean even if you have the most damaged hair isn't 2-3xs/wk a lot?
> 
> I am the type to follow directions to a T when it comes to how I use the product and how long I use them, so when I read 2-3xs/wk and they sent me an email restating this I almost started to do it that often but I backed off and just did once a week because of overload.
> 
> Does anyone agree with Joico and think that 2-3xs/wk is ok? I assume Joico knows their stuff when it comes to hair so maybe it's ok...


 
2-3x/week on a damaged hair (bleached, melting off) until you don't need it anymore, ie, until your hair is no longer damaged. Most reconstructors are like that. It really isn't as hardcore as you think.

Edit: Also, if you are using a product consistently, and you notice your hair changes in texture and elasticity, why wouldn't realize that discontinuing use of said product is a viable option. Not trying to be glib, but the phrase "protein overload" bothers me to no end b/c it is preventable and it takes a lot of effort to achieve. No one should be passive enough with their own hair to let protein (or even moisture) overload occur, esp. with the plethora of knowledge out there. Yeah I know it happens, but IMO it shouldn't if you learn how to spot trouble early and just pay attention. I dunno, call me an idealist


----------



## locabouthair (Jan 6, 2009)

Artemis said:


> 2-3x/week on a damaged hair (bleached, melting off) until you don't need it anymore, ie, until your hair is no longer damaged. Most reconstructors are like that. It really isn't as hardcore as you think.
> 
> Edit: Also, if you are using a product consistently, and you notice your hair changes in texture and elasticity, why wouldn't realize that discontinuing use of said product is a viable option. Not trying to be glib, but the phrase "protein overload" bothers me to no end b/c it is preventable and it takes a lot of effort to achieve. *No one should be passive enough with their own hair to let protein (or even moisture) overload occur, esp. with the plethora of knowledge out there. Yeah I know it happens, but IMO it shouldn't if you learn how to spot trouble early and just pay attention.* I dunno, call me an idealist



I feel you but when it happened to me, I ddidnt know anything about my hair.  I was teen still relying on my stylist to tell me everything. I dotn even think LHCF existed then.

I know a girl who used the hard core aphogee every week or two weeks, something like that and her hair did grow. I thought that that was OD but she insisted that that was how you were supposed to use it. Now that I think about she came back from summer vacation with longer hair, it could have been the summer growth spurt or maybe she needed protein idk. I'm not sure if her strands were fine or coarse.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 6, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> *I feel you but when it happened to me, I ddidnt know anything about my hair.* I was teen still relying on my stylist to tell me everything. I dotn even think LHCF existed then.
> 
> I know a girl who used the hard core aphogee every week or two weeks, something like that and her hair did grow. I thought that that was OD but she insisted that that was how you were supposed to use it. Now that I think about she came back from summer vacation with longer hair, it could have been the summer growth spurt or maybe she needed protein idk. I'm not sure if her strands were fine or coarse.


 
Yeah, that's different. If it's due to ignorance (b/c nobody told you), IMO you get a pass.  And I'm sure eventually, she decreased the frequency of that product as her hair got better.

I shake my head at my "not-knowing" self when I realized how overmoisturized my hair was when my stylist put DRC 28 on my hair and then followed it up with Affirm (I a/b died), but then when my hair was soft yet durable, I just *had* to find out why. Maybe that's just me...

There are ppl out here who just don't want to know why, or don't care. They can stay in the dark if they like, but trust, that won't be me.


----------



## BlondeByDesire (Jan 6, 2009)

Question:  It's about time for my relaxer - do i do a protein treatment right after?  And if so, what kind - light or hard?  Please share what products work.  Thanks.


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

Marbel said:


> Question: It's about time for my relaxer - do i do a protein treatment right after? And if so, what kind - light or hard? Please share what products work. Thanks.


 
You use lye or no lye?

ETA: I use lye and I do a protein midstep (after rinsing the relaxer and before neutralizing) with Ultra Sheen Duo Tex.


----------



## Golden75 (Jan 6, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> I got my first protein treatment last week at the shop because my hair was breaking off and that was not normal. I plan to do the aphogee protein treatment this week. My questions is should I do the Aphogee protein two times a month and the 2 min reconstruction every week when I wash my hair? I am soooo excited about Aphogee now.


 

I've never done the Aphogee 2 step.  But I have heard it is hardcore protein, so too much may be a bad thing of that type of treatment.  I do use the 2 min treatment at least 2x a month 15 mins with heat, then use my moisture DC. Breakage stops dead in its tracks (I swear!)  But maybe others that have used the 2 step can tell how often they have used it.  FYI: I've read that it only takes a few (about 3 protein treatments I think) to correct a moisture overload, but takes longer to correct a protein overload.  Maybe one week use no protein or a lighter protein (ORS Replenish Pak does well for me), and see how your hair responds.


----------



## Prose Princess (Jan 6, 2009)

ladybeesrch said:


> What are you getting off the internet hun?
> I see that you're in ky,and you could pick all of these up,except for the Hairveda,from Whole Foods.



Yeah, the Hairveda is the only thing I order offline but I don't even want to have to order that, so I'm looking for something to replace it with, maybe the Pantene R&N Mask?  And I also said cost effectiveness was a problem with the Aubrey Organics, but I guess I will just have to live with it because I LOVE that stuff!   Does Whole Foods carry the NOW foods brands of essential oils?  That's one thing I never look for when I go out there.


----------



## locabouthair (Jan 6, 2009)

Marbel said:


> Question:  It's about time for my relaxer - do i do a protein treatment right after?  And if so, what kind - light or hard?  Please share what products work.  Thanks.



it would be better if you used the treatment before you relax. you shouldnt use protein treatments right after you relax your hair will look like the relaxer didnt take. it says on the bottle not to use it the same day.


----------



## natural2008 (Jan 6, 2009)

do you ladies put a plastic cap on your head when using the protien before sitting under the dryer or not?  On the aphogee bottle it says to not cover your hair.


----------



## Muse (Jan 6, 2009)

Artemis said:


> 2-3x/week on a damaged hair (bleached, melting off) until you don't need it anymore, ie, until your hair is no longer damaged. Most reconstructors are like that. It really isn't as hardcore as you think.
> 
> Edit: Also, if you are using a product consistently, and you notice your hair changes in texture and elasticity, why wouldn't realize that discontinuing use of said product is a viable option. Not trying to be glib, but the phrase "protein overload" bothers me to no end b/c it is preventable and it takes a lot of effort to achieve. No one should be passive enough with their own hair to let protein (or even moisture) overload occur, esp. with the plethora of knowledge out there. Yeah I know it happens, but IMO it shouldn't if you learn how to spot trouble early and just pay attention. I dunno, call me an idealist



Well I guess the fear of (ok going to use the words you dislike) protein overload is like fear of heat around here. No need for fear just do it correctly. Actually now that I think about it, when people say they were experiencing  too much protein (I think you or Gym said it) perhaps they were using the wrong conditioner to follow up. I guess Joico knows what they are talking about when they tell you to use the Intense Hydrator afterwards, they know this will balance you out. The problem comes when we use our own conditioners that are not meant to be used after reconstructors. Well i guess I'd better stop using the MR Balm and get the Intense Hydrator, huh?

Ok I know I'm slow but that was a light bulb moment for me ^^^(even though it was already stated a few posts back)


----------



## Aggie (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm not sure I asked this question here or not but I really want to know this. What do you ladies think about watering down the hardcore aphogee treatment by mixing in some moisturizing DC with it before application? Afterall, we can mix other protein and moisturizing deep conditioners together. I'm thinking it probably wouldn't dry quite as hard as it would without the Moisturizing DC but does that really matter? IDK, just throwing thoughts out there....I am still tempted to try it though.


----------



## Golden75 (Jan 6, 2009)

Marbel said:


> Question: It's about time for my relaxer - do i do a protein treatment right after? And if so, what kind - light or hard? Please share what products work. Thanks.


 

Yes.  To stregthen your bonds, and so the protein can penetrate deeper since cuticles are raised, after rinsing relaxer use a protein conditioner. Should be something moderate, i.e. Aphogee 2 Min.  The hardcore like the Aphogee 2 step will harden your hair and can be counteractive.  Only leave the protein conditioner of your choice on for 5-7mins max, no heat, plastic cap.  10mins is too long!  This is because the conditioner does not bring down the ph of your hair (it will bring it down some with addition to just rinsing it out the relaxer with water) but the neutralizing is the actual stablizer. So anything longer then 5-7 mins, your hair is still getting processed.  Look for articles by Sistaslick. I've explained her theroy in a nutshell.


----------



## BlondeByDesire (Jan 6, 2009)

daephae said:


> You use lye or no lye?
> 
> ETA: I use lye and I do a protein midstep (after rinsing the relaxer and before neutralizing) with Ultra Sheen Duo Tex.


 
I use Silk Elements in the tub - I believe it's lye.  How long do you keep on the hair?


----------



## Aggie (Jan 6, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> do you ladies put a plastic cap on your head when using the protien before sitting under the dryer or not? On the aphogee bottle it says to not cover your hair.


 
This is referring to the Aphogee 2 step only and I think Nexxus Emergencee as well but not the Aphogee 2 minute keratin reconstructor.


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> it would be better if you used the treatment before you relax. *you shouldnt use protein treatments right after you relax your hair will look like the relaxer didnt take*. it says on the bottle not to use it the same day.


 
This may be true for a hardcore protein but it isn't true for protein overall.  You can safely use a light protein to restore protein lost in the hair shaft after using a lye relaxer.


----------



## BlondeByDesire (Jan 6, 2009)

locabouthair said:


> it would be better if you used the treatment before you relax. you shouldnt use protein treatments right after you relax your hair will look like the relaxer didnt take. it says on the bottle not to use it the same day.


 
ok - do i use a hard protein - say a week before?  Aphogee 2 step?


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

Marbel said:


> I use Silk Elements in the tub - I believe it's lye. How long do you keep on the hair?


 
about 5 minutes as directed on the bottle. Duo Tex is not a hard protein like Aphogee 2 step but can be used the same way (until it hardens, then rinsed out).


----------



## BlondeByDesire (Jan 6, 2009)

daephae said:


> This may be true for a hardcore protein but it isn't true for protein overall.  You can safely use a light protein to restore protein lost in the hair shaft after using a lye relaxer.


 
I think I read this somewhere as well ... using a light protein - right after rinsing but before neautralizing.


----------



## locabouthair (Jan 6, 2009)

daephae said:


> This may be true for a hardcore protein but it isn't true for protein overall.  You can safely use a light protein to restore protein lost in the hair shaft after using a lye relaxer.



Thats what I meant. I'm sorry I should have been more clear. Yeah the hard core protein is a no no right after the relaxer. I use the mid protein step too, when I relax, with a light/med protein of course.


----------



## Golden75 (Jan 6, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> do you ladies put a plastic cap on your head when using the protien before sitting under the dryer or not? On the aphogee bottle it says to not cover your hair.


 
On which Aphogee? The only one I ever used is the 2 min one. Never noticed. But I always use a plastic cap when I use heat. Especially since I have a soft bonnet dryer. I'd have conditioner all up in it!


----------



## BlondeByDesire (Jan 6, 2009)

daephae:  is this it?


----------



## locabouthair (Jan 6, 2009)

Marbel said:


> ok - do i use a hard protein - say a week before?  Aphogee 2 step?



yeah you can use that one a week before to prepare your hair for the relaxer, but not on relaxer day.

Use a light/medium protein on the day you relax.

Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

Marbel said:


> daephae: is this it?


 
yup, that's it. I've used this since last February/March and its good. Now I'm itching to try the Aphogee 2 min keratin reconstructor.

AND

the bottle is like 32 oz for $6-$7...I still have 3/4 of a bottle! A little goes a long way. It's a great investment.


----------



## BlondeByDesire (Jan 6, 2009)

daephae said:


> yup, that's it. I've used this since last February/March and its good. Now I'm itching to try the Aphogee 2 min keratin reconstructor.
> 
> AND
> 
> the bottle is like 32 oz for $6-$7...I still have 3/4 of a bottle! A little goes a long way. It's a great investment.


 
So I'm assuming the Aphogee 2 min keratin reconstructor is considered "light" like the untra sheen?


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

Marbel said:


> So I'm assuming the Aphogee 2 min keratin reconstructor is considered "light" like the untra sheen?


 

Exactly.  (If I'm wrong I'm sure Gymfreak or Artemis will correct me).


----------



## JerriBlank (Jan 6, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> Yeah, the Hairveda is the only thing I order offline but I don't even want to have to order that, so I'm looking for something to replace it with, maybe the Pantene R&N Mask?  And I also said cost effectiveness was a problem with the Aubrey Organics, but I guess I will just have to live with it because I LOVE that stuff!   Does Whole Foods carry the NOW foods brands of essential oils?  That's one thing I never look for when I go out there.



I'm pretty sure i've seen it there,if not then its at VitaminShoppe(right across the street).But its one or the two


----------



## Jetblackhair (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm loving this thread, it's been so enlightening! Thanks Patricia for sharing your experience.


----------



## Golden75 (Jan 6, 2009)

daephae said:


> Exactly.  (If I'm wrong I'm sure Gymfreak or Artemis will correct me).


 
I've read it categorized as a mild/moderate protein.  ORS Replenish Pak is considered light.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 6, 2009)

Marbel said:


> Question:  It's about time for my relaxer - do i do a protein treatment right after?  And if so, what kind - light or hard?  Please share what products work.  Thanks.



Generally speaking here are your options:
1) Hardcore protein 7-14 days prior to relaxer touch-up
2) Hardcore protein 7-14 days post relaxer touch-up

If you do it before the relaxer, then a week after use a lighter protein reconstructor to follow up, and vice versa. It's up to you and how strong (or not) your hair is going into relaxer day.

Mid-process protein steps are obligatory IMO.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 6, 2009)

Aphogee 2 min is really light and can be used weekly in most cases.

Of course at the end of the day, it depends on how much protein your own hair needs. Only your hair can make that determination.


----------



## JDandBeyond (Jan 6, 2009)

Patricia said:


> OK ITS OFFICIAL! YOU AND ARTEMIS ARE THE EXPERTS I NEED TO FOLLOW FOR ALL MY HAIRCARE NEEDS.


 
I SOOO second that one!  You both always post things that are right on point in every thread I read!  I had already made them my unofficial mentors but now I'll make it official! :notworthy


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 6, 2009)

Golden75 said:


> I've read it categorized as a mild/moderate protein. ORS Replenish Pak is considered light. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


 

ORS Replenishing is actually considered a moisturizing conditioner not a protein conditioner even though it contains a small amount of protein.


----------



## betty-boo (Jan 6, 2009)

I totally agree! Gymfreak and Artemis are ON POINT.

Having experienced precisely what you experienced Patricia, I have also come to realise that I was over-moisturising my hair. I have now done this twice and have suffered with thinning ends each time.
Now that I know what it was, I'm never going back. My hair LOVES protein  and I'm not following any more bandwagons, because that's what threw me off my goals. 'Err on the side of moisture'? 

*Thanks to Gymfreak and Artemis*, I am learning about the moisture-protein balance MY hair needs and 2009 will be better yet!


----------



## CenteredGirl (Jan 6, 2009)

samanthajones67 said:


> LORD - Where have you been?????????????


 
Girl, I have been hanging by a thread.  Work has been ROUGH.  I'm ordering our stuff tomorrow.


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Jan 6, 2009)

CenteredGirl said:


> Girl, I have been hanging by a thread. Work has been ROUGH. I'm ordering our stuff tomorrow.


 

Oh Dear..... Let's talk on the weekend.

Love you...
I am hanging by a thread too.


----------



## Gigi-07 (Jan 6, 2009)

Yes, IA protein has been VITAL to my hair. It's a big part of my regimen.


----------



## diligence (Jan 6, 2009)

I too have learned that my hair needs protein.  Unfortunately I never had a clue about it until I joined this board.  Who KNOWS how long my hair could be now if I'd know about this a few years ago!  Thanks ladies!


----------



## Golden75 (Jan 6, 2009)

daephae said:


> ORS Replenishing is actually considered a moisturizing conditioner not a protein conditioner even though it contains a small amount of protein.


 

Yup, I know.  I've just seen it listed as a light protein because it does contain some form of protein (for those that avoid protein at all costs), but it is definately more moisturizing than protein.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

Jassy28 said:


> So, can my hair need more protein and not feel mushy? My hair is fragile and I have daily breakage...could protein be the issue?


 Protein should help your fragile hair become strong.  Whats your products and regimine?


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> should I do the 2 step treatment ever 2 months and the reconstructor every week or two times a month?


Sound safe


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

Stella B. said:


> Thanks for the reminder about protein!! I use the 2 minute aphogee at least once a month, but after reading this post, I know I should up it to at least every other week. I'm still searching for the correct balance of moisture and protein for my hair, even after a year! I notice that if I use protein as a part of pre-pooing, then I need to add extra moisture during deep conditioning. Yesterday at the bss, a young sales lady said to me that if you need protein, then think Aphogee, cause all their products have protein in them.


 Good to know about the aphogee products


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

Spidergul said:


> OK Ladies-Help me out with a GREAT moisturing conditioner plz!


Only one that comes to mind is mane and tail, some say it has protein in it but I cant tell.  I use this as a base to mix my reconstructor in


----------



## Patricia (Jan 6, 2009)

CenteredGirl said:


> It took me 6 years! Oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. But my hair is really awesome now. Been playing with different types of proteins: eggs, keratin, soy, silk, wheat. Wonderful.


 Your hair is beautiful centeredgirl.  Yeah you have been MIA


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

ImaBoss said:


> well being that I just started my healthy hair growth Im not 100% sure what I have discovered about my hair, but what I am sure about is: This is a great thread, This is great board with a lot of good information for newbies like me and i'm so glad I discovered it. Thanks Ladies


Yes the ladies on this board is so knowledgable about haircare.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

soulie said:


> I just made the protein discovery about a month ago! I bought the Keraphix while I was on vacation and my hair INSTANTLY improved; I've been using it weekly and I think my hair is at its best now. I'm wondering if I even need my monthly Emergencee treatment now.


nexxus Keraphix is def a good product.  Listen to your hair.  I would like to know too! curious if you need your emergencee treatment.


----------



## Honey-Dip (Jan 7, 2009)

My hair also thrives with protein! Loves it! It used to be thin and it has gotten so much more think and healthy with my use of protein!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

kandegirl said:


> Great post. I've been using the hard core Aprhogee for years every 6-8 weeks but I would still get some breakage. I find my hair is doing better using the 2 minute aphogee every week and still use the hard core one every few months. The weekly protein is rebuilding my hair and a hair dresser told me once when I got highlights to use a recontructor every week to rebuild my hair for two months. Now I'm following that age old advice again!


 I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.  I'VE BEEN DOING THIS ON MY OWN.  TO HEAR THAT A HAIRDRESSER RECOMMENDS THIS MAKES ME FEEL GOOD:woohoo:


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

Muse said:


> The people at Joico said the Kpak reconstructor can be used 2-3xs per week? Whose hair can take that much? Are they aware of protein overload? I mean even if you have the most damaged hair isn't 2-3xs/wk a lot?
> 
> I am the type to follow directions to a T when it comes to how I use the product and how long I use them, so when I read 2-3xs/wk and they sent me an email restating this I almost started to do it that often but I backed off and just did once a week because of overload.
> 
> Does anyone agree with Joico and think that 2-3xs/wk is ok? I assume Joico knows their stuff when it comes to hair so maybe it's ok...


JOICO MIGHT WANT YOU TO KEEP REBUYING THEIR PRODUCT REALLY FAST.  NO JUST KIDDING.   ME PERSONALLY I'LL STICK WITH MY 1X PER WEEK REGIMINE.  DON'T WANT TO OVERDO IT.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

Golden75 said:


> Does anyone agree with Joico and think that 2-3xs/wk is ok? I assume Joico knows their stuff when it comes to hair so maybe it's ok...


 
Guess it depends on the hair, its tolerance, and the strength of the protein. Never heard of protein overload til I got here, and I think I was infected! My hair was snap, cracking, and popping. When I thought about the products I've used over the years (and there were plenty) they were all protein based. Why? Cuz I read protein is good for hair, but the second part of moisture was not attached to those statements. So since I have been watching my protein intake and upping moisture my hair is doing so much better. I usually use a moderate protein DC 2x per month (when I clarify & one if I'm experiencing extra breakage). But I am also using MT which is protein. So I think once you find that balance, you won't need protein as often. Is K-pak considered a heavy protein? I would think 2-3x a week is excessive if its hardcore and your hair is not necessarily damaged.[/quote]


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

naturalgurl said:


> I've learned that here as well. People raved about how certain products brought their hair back to life. Me, like a fool was out buying this stuff in BULK and left with hair in the sink STILL! Needless to say, I found what MY hair likes and we've been friends again ever since!(I'm a high moisture/low protein gal) Glad to know you figured yours out. We can't be afraid to go off the path and see what OUR needs are versus what others need.


 SO TRUE.  AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH.  WE GOT TO LISTEN TO OUR OWN HAIR.   BY THE WAY, YOUR HAIR IS PRETTY!


----------



## PGirl (Jan 7, 2009)

Thank you so much for this post!  This forum has me sooooo scared of protein!  And I have had some recent breakage and was really contemplating Nexxus Emergencee.  I'm going for it now!  Thank you!!!!!!

:wink2:


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

ladybeesrch said:


> Wow!I'm just seeing this thread,but i have pretty much been having the same issue.This is why i bought some MOP extreme protein,because its time for my hair to get a good dose(and aphogee was not doing it for some reason).
> 
> I'm dc'ing with this today,followed by a cheapie coconut dc i picked up,or some Tigi Oatmeal and honey treatment,and a rollerset.
> I hope this works,because i know my hair needs the protein.


WHAT IS MOP EXTREME PROTEIN?   KEEP US POSTED WHEN YOU USE IT.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

Marbel said:


> Question: It's about time for my relaxer - do i do a protein treatment right after? And if so, what kind - light or hard? Please share what products work. Thanks.


 IT WOULD BE GOOD TO DO ONE THE WEEK BEFORE YOUR RELAXER AND RIGHT BEFORE NEUTRALIZING.


----------



## angelica (Jan 7, 2009)

Great thread.  my hair definitely needs protein.  I have a question - tonight i used Joico reconstuctor for 15 minutes with heat and my hair felt great - it was soft and moist.  then i used the intense hydrator and my hair felt kinda hard.  do you always need to use a moisturiser after a moderate protein treatment like Joico.  i feel as if my hair would have been better without the moisture step.  TIA


----------



## HoneyB (Jan 7, 2009)

I recently realized that my hair needs more protein too. A week ago I prepooed with Mane N Tail conditioner on dry hair (attempting to use it up) and after I washed it out my hair felt strong, it wasn't shedding/breaking and was moisturized. As soon as a put a moisturizing shampoo on it (CON professional w/green labeling), long hairs would come out at the touch. Would a protein-based conditioner be better for the moment until I combat the protein/moistute balance?

TIA


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 7, 2009)

natural2008 said:


> Hello GymFreak,
> My hair was not braking before getting the protein treatment.  I noticed the breakage after I got my texturizer touched up.  My hair has never broken/shedd like that and I was going crazy.



Thanks for responding. When you got the touch up, did anything different happen, like where there any new products used? Where your results different after that? How soon after the texturizer did you get the protein treatment?


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 7, 2009)

HoneyB said:


> I recently realized that my hair needs more protein too. A week ago I prepooed with Mane N Tail conditioner on dry hair (attempting to use it up) and after I washed it out my hair felt strong, it wasn't shedding/breaking and was moisturized. As soon as a put a moisturizing shampoo on it (CON professional w/green labeling), long hairs would come out at the touch. Would a protein-based conditioner be better for the moment until I combat the protein/moistute balance?
> 
> TIA



Hey HoneyB! What you can try is using a protein based shampoo with a conditioner that gives both protein and moisture. Then as you see fit, you can use additional moisture products via moisturizing lotions or moisturizing conditioners as needed.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 7, 2009)

I just wanted add ladies that I know many might be thinking, oh lawd, I gotta make some changes and get more stuff but your products don't have to be expensive either. I love joico but it ain't the only fish in the sea and it won't work for everybody. I have started experimenting with some other brands and have found some other great products. 

Here are some products you can look into trying with many choices for avoiding spending tons of money. 
*
Protein shampoos*

aphogee shampoo for damaged hair
naked naturals shampoo- you can get it from walgreens, has lots of vegetable protein and it is sodium lauryl and laureth free, lathers well and smells good. One of my new favorites 
Coloresse Repairing shampoo- get it from sallys, it is part of their knockoff pureology line and it comes in blue bottles. Slightly higher protein content than regular shampoos and it is sulfate free. Right now, it and all of the coloresse products are part of that 2for10 special. 

*

Protein conditioners that can still give your hair moisture*

Ion Effective care treatment- found at sallys and is marketed as a protein moisturizing conditioner. Very nice option and comes in sample packs. 
Loreal Natures Therapy Fortifying line- again at sallys and currently there are coupons in the store for it right now; they also have a shampoo
Affirm 5n1
Coloresse Repairing conditioner- again at sallys, comes in blue packaging, more moisturizing so this could possibly be a moisturizing options for us needing more protein in our lives. 
Motions CPR in the bottle and the motions silk protein are both pretty nice too 
Paul Mitchell Hair repair-  Super creamy, works fast and a tube will last you a long time. (Thanks Artemis for this one  

You can also looking into the Paul Mitchell Superstrong line, Lanza repair line and their healing strength line. Redken Extreme has some good treatments too and many ladies here like it. 

Lets add to the list ladies so if you have any other suggestions that you haven't already mentioned, please add them.


----------



## Eisani (Jan 7, 2009)

My hair was never crazy about loads of protein, but I always tried to keep a balance, especially while texlaxed/relaxed. Now that I have way more natural hair, I'm finding that in order to keep breakage and excessive shedding at bay, I need to use some type of reconstructor every couple weeks. I figured this out only after I was having breakage issues and tried everything under the sun from trimming more  to chelating and doing more moisturizing dc's.  My hair didn't need any of that . Being at my wit's end, I decided to try my reconstructor. I figured it was already breaking so if it got worse, I'd just BC . My hair has thanked me ever since. I'm retaining more moisture, my hair is stronger and I have no breakage at the line of demarcation. 

It's amazing how your hair care needs can change so much when going from relaxed to natural and vice versa. This journey has definitely led to a lot of product revisitations and discoveries.


----------



## silkii_locks (Jan 7, 2009)

angelica said:


> Great thread. my hair definitely needs protein. I have a question - tonight i used Joico reconstuctor for 15 minutes with heat and my hair felt great - it was soft and moist. then i used the intense hydrator and my hair felt kinda hard. do you always need to use a moisturiser after a moderate protein treatment like Joico. i feel as if my hair would have been better without the moisture step. TIA


 
Hi, 
I use the joico reconstructor as well and yes you really do need to follow any protein treatment with moisture, however the intense hydrator has protein in it as well.  So that's probably why your hair came out a little hard.  Next time try following the reconstructor with something like Kera MC, nexxus humectress, kera care humecto or schescentit conditioners.  Should work like a charm then.


----------



## BlondeByDesire (Jan 7, 2009)

daephae said:


> ORS Replenishing is actually considered a moisturizing conditioner not a protein conditioner even though it contains a small amount of protein.


 
That's what I would like to know ORS Replenishing - I have the bottle - can that be used as a weekly conditioning agent or is that too much protein?


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 7, 2009)

Marbel said:


> That's what I would like to know ORS Replenishing - I have the bottle - can that be used a weekly conditioning agent or is that too much protein?


 

You could definitely use it weekly, imo. since it's moisturizing.


----------



## BlondeByDesire (Jan 7, 2009)

Artemis said:


> Generally speaking here are your options:
> 1) Hardcore protein 7-14 days prior to relaxer touch-up
> 2) Hardcore protein 7-14 days post relaxer touch-up
> 
> ...


 
Thank you - this helps a lot.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

Aggie said:


> I'm not sure I asked this question here or not but I really want to know this. What do you ladies think about watering down the hardcore aphogee treatment by mixing in some moisturizing DC with it before application? Afterall, we can mix other protein and moisturizing deep conditioners together. I'm thinking it probably wouldn't dry quite as hard as it would without the Moisturizing DC but does that really matter? IDK, just throwing thoughts out there....I am still tempted to try it though.


That could work! It seems like it would be a watered down version like it is anyway compared to it 20 years ago.  You think it stink now. HAHAHAHAHA It really stinked back then and got super harder than now.  OK I'm starting to feel old now.  If anyone has tried to dilute it with moisturizing conditioners let us know.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

Jetblackhair said:


> I'm loving this thread, it's been so enlightening! Thanks Patricia for sharing your experience.


You are so welcome.  I wrote about my experience hoping someone would benefit from the mistakes I made.   Its good to know I am truely not alone with this experience.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

Gigi-07 said:


> Yes, IA protein has been VITAL to my hair. It's a big part of my regimen.


Love your avi


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

diligence said:


> I too have learned that my hair needs protein. Unfortunately I never had a clue about it until I joined this board. Who KNOWS how long my hair could be now if I'd know about this a few years ago! Thanks ladies!


 Oh my, I always think about me being waist by now


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

Honey-Dip said:


> My hair also thrives with protein! Loves it! It used to be thin and it has gotten so much more think and healthy with my use of protein!



 Oh Yes


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Jan 7, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Your hair is beautiful centeredgirl. Yeah you have been MIA


 

She was _*very* _sick  - Much better now... We talked over the holidays.


----------



## ItsyBitsy (Jan 7, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> I just wanted add ladies that I know many might be thinking, oh lawd, I gotta make some changes and get more stuff but your products don't have to be expensive either. I love joico but it ain't the only fish in the sea and it won't work for everybody. I have started experimenting with some other brands and have found some other great products.
> 
> Here are some products you can look into trying with many choices for avoiding spending tons of money.
> 
> ...


 
Hey Sis!
Please add TiGi Dumb Blonde Reconstructor to the list. I think it has an excellent balance of moisture & protein. I can't say enough about this conditioner..I LUV IT!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

PGirl said:


> Thank you so much for this post! This forum has me sooooo scared of protein! And I have had some recent breakage and was really contemplating Nexxus Emergencee. I'm going for it now! Thank you!!!!!!
> 
> :wink2:


I understand I was so scared of a protein overload.  I think I'll be fine as long as I stay clear of the aphogee 2 step


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

angelica said:


> Great thread. my hair definitely needs protein. I have a question - tonight i used Joico reconstuctor for 15 minutes with heat and my hair felt great - it was soft and moist. then i used the intense hydrator and my hair felt kinda hard. do you always need to use a moisturiser after a moderate protein treatment like Joico. i feel as if my hair would have been better without the moisture step. TIA


 I just use it by itself.  Never use the intense hydrator.   Maybe someone else will reply


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Jan 7, 2009)

Patricia,
I just wanted to thank you for this valuable post.

Ten years later...Dang.......my hair could have been TAILBONE a long time ago.

I am using eggs more often... And in the last year - I did use more protein than I ever really did before.

I think that we just don't know what the heck we are doing.... We are so conditioned to MOISTURE as nappies....

Well, I have seen the difference incorporating Yogurt and eggs.

So - Thanks again mama!!!! To GREAT lengths!


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 7, 2009)

ItsyBitsy said:


> Hey Sis!
> Please add TiGi Dumb Blonde Reconstructor to the list. I think it has an excellent balance of moisture & protein. I can't say enough about this conditioner..I LUV IT!



I forgot that one (even thought I got 2 big bottles of it here ) Yes, you are right. Great conditioner and affordable too.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 7, 2009)

silkii_locks said:


> Hi,
> I use the joico reconstructor as well and yes you really do need to follow any protein treatment with moisture, however the intense hydrator has protein in it as well.  So that's probably why your hair came out a little hard.  Next time try following the reconstructor with something like Kera MC, nexxus humectress, kera care humecto or schescentit conditioners.  Should work like a charm then.



I agree with silkii locks. The only time I follow with the intense hydrator is when I know my hair probably needs it like a week or two after a chemical. Sometimes, just to check, I rub a little just on on section of my hair for a couple of minutes. If it feels good then I will proceed with my whole head.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

HoneyB said:


> I recently realized that my hair needs more protein too. A week ago I prepooed with Mane N Tail conditioner on dry hair (attempting to use it up) and after I washed it out my hair felt strong, it wasn't shedding/breaking and was moisturized. As soon as a put a moisturizing shampoo on it (CON professional w/green labeling), long hairs would come out at the touch. Would a protein-based conditioner be better for the moment until I combat the protein/moistute balance?
> 
> TIA


I'm not a expert but from my experience I use garnier frutis long and strong shampoo because it has a bit of protein and it makes my hair feel stong and not weak.  Maybe you can switch your shampoo and see how your hair feels.  I heard aphogee shampoo contain protein too!  Main and tail conditioner suppose to have protein in it.  I think its a light one though.  Correct me if I 'm wrong.  If your hairs is coming out to the touch like mine was I would do a reconstructor of some type. I do mine weekly


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

Eisani said:


> My hair was never crazy about loads of protein, but I always tried to keep a balance, especially while texlaxed/relaxed. Now that I have way more natural hair, I'm finding that in order to keep breakage and excessive shedding at bay, I need to use some type of reconstructor every couple weeks. I figured this out only after I was having breakage issues and tried everything under the sun from trimming more  to chelating and doing more moisturizing dc's. My hair didn't need any of that . Being at my wit's end, I decided to try my reconstructor. I figured it was already breaking so if it got worse, I'd just BC . My hair has thanked me ever since. I'm retaining more moisture, my hair is stronger and I have no breakage at the line of demarcation.
> 
> It's amazing how your hair care needs can change so much when going from relaxed to natural and vice versa. This journey has definitely led to a lot of product revisitations and discoveries.


 My hair when natural craved different products than my now relaxed hair


----------



## Muse (Jan 7, 2009)

angelica said:


> Great thread.  my hair definitely needs protein.  I have a question - tonight i used Joico reconstuctor for 15 minutes with heat and my hair felt great - it was soft and moist.  then i used the intense hydrator and my hair felt kinda hard.  do you always need to use a moisturiser after a moderate protein treatment like Joico.  i feel as if my hair would have been better without the moisture step.  TIA



I know what you mean. I used the Kpak poo and hydrator for the first time with the reconstructor last night. Previously I was using the reconstructor with the MR poo and balm. I do have to say I got better results as far as less breakage when I used the whole K pak line (I LOVE the Kpak poo it's better than the MR one!) but I really didn't care for the Intense Hydrator. My hair didn't feel as moisturized as it does when I use the MR balm afterward. I started to put the MR balm on after I rinsed out the hydrator but I didn't want to load my hair with products.  I'm hoping when I get the MR leave in styling creme that will help combat some of the dryness. I would substitute the hydrator for the balm if I didn't have such great results as far as less breakage so I'm just going to leave it alone for now and find a good leave in.

I think it's a must to moisturize after *any* protein treatment even if you don't use the hydrator, moisturizing conditioner is a step you do not want to leave out. This is how you keep things balanced.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

Marbel said:


> That's what I would like to know ORS Replenishing - I have the bottle - can that be used as a weekly conditioning agent or is that too much protein?


 I also bought the bottle and when I use it my hair is overmoisturized.  I guess I will mix it with reconstructor to use it up.  See how your hair feels after using it.  It might work for you


----------



## TaraDyan (Jan 7, 2009)

Yep ... protein is my friend too.  I have heard a lot of naturals say that natural hair really doesn't need protein, but that is sooooo not the case for my hair.  My hair always thanks me when I give it a hearty dose of protein, followed by a deep moisturizing conditioner.  My protein/moisture treatments seriously define my curls and give them more structure ... it makes them "boingy".  I like all kinds of protein too -- both mid grade and hardcore.  

Yep ... protein in my friend.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

samanthajones67 said:


> She was _*very* _sick  - Much better now... We talked over the holidays.


Oh wow sorry to hear that.  Thanks for letting me know.   Keep us posted on your blog.


----------



## JDandBeyond (Jan 7, 2009)

Muse said:


> I know what you mean. I used the Kpak poo and hydrator for the first time with the reconstructor last night. Previously I was using the reconstructor with the MR poo and balm. I do have to say I got better results as far as less breakage when I used the whole K pak line (I LOVE the Kpak poo it's better than the MR one!) but I really didn't care for the Intense Hydrator. My hair didn't feel as moisturized as it does when I use the MR balm afterward. I started to put the MR balm on after I rinsed out the hydrator but I didn't want to load my hair with products. I'm hoping when I get the MR leave in styling creme that will help combat some of the dryness. I would substitute the hydrator for the balm if I didn't have such great results as far as less breakage so I'm just going to leave it alone for now and find a good leave in.
> 
> I think it's a must to moisturize after *any* protein treatment even if you don't use the hydrator, moisturizing conditioner is a step you do not want to leave out. This is how you keep things balanced.


 
OT: what products from the kpak line do you use and love? Do you use the moisture line as well?  I have been using kenra shampoo and condish as well as Nexxus Therapee and Humectress and LOVE them, but the more I hear about Joico the more I want to give it a try!  I went to Trade Secret a few days ago to pick some up and they had the AUDACITY to be closed at 3pm!  I thought maybe that was my sign to stick with Kenra, but it seems Joico is calling my name!


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 7, 2009)

Patricia said:


> I'm not a expert but from my experience I use garnier frutis long and strong shampoo because it has a bit of protein and it makes my hair feel stong and not weak. Maybe you can switch your shampoo and see how your hair feels. I heard aphogee shampoo contain protein too! Main and tail conditioner suppose to have protein in it. I think its a light one though. Correct me if I 'm wrong. If your hairs is coming out to the touch like mine was I would do a reconstructor of some type. I do mine weekly


 

Wow, I never, ever considered using a shampoo with protein! That may be what my hair needs!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

samanthajones67 said:


> Patricia,
> I just wanted to thank you for this valuable post.
> 
> Ten years later...Dang.......my hair could have been TAILBONE a long time ago.
> ...


Oh my goodness you are my hair idol! To get a compliment from you means so much to me. 
All the heartache, sleepless nights was worth it.  Are you still on BHM?


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 7, 2009)

JDandBeyond said:


> OT: what products from the kpak line do you use and love? Do you use the moisture line as well? I have been using kenra shampoo and condish as well as Nexxus Therapee and Humectress and LOVE them, but the more I hear about Joico the more I want to give it a try! I went to Trade Secret a few days ago to pick some up and they had the AUDACITY to be closed at 3pm! I thought maybe that was my sign to stick with Kenra, but it seems Joico is calling my name!


 


I've been thinking about trying the Joico K-pak too...


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

TaraDyan said:


> Yep ... protein is my friend too. I have heard a lot of naturals say that natural hair really doesn't need protein, but that is sooooo not the case for my hair. My hair always thanks me when I give it a hearty dose of protein, followed by a deep moisturizing conditioner. My protein/moisture treatments seriously define my curls and give them more structure ... it makes them "boingy". I like all kinds of protein too -- both mid grade and hardcore.
> 
> Yep ... protein in my friend.


I'm hearing this from naturals and relaxed ladies too


----------



## Patricia (Jan 7, 2009)

daephae said:


> Wow, I never, ever considered using a shampoo with protein! That may be what my hair needs!


 It made a difference between night and day for me.  I had a bottle in the cabinet from a couple years ago and deceided to try it again.  Thats what my hair has been missing too!


----------



## JDandBeyond (Jan 7, 2009)

Umm Patricia I nominate you to start the Protein Lovers' Challenge... Challenge to determine the CORRECT usage of protein for maximum hair growth!


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 7, 2009)

daephae said:


> Wow, I never, ever considered using a shampoo with protein! That may be what my hair needs!



Hey Daephae!

A protein shampoo is a easy way to tweak what you are doing already. In fact, a long time ago, the Lanza Protein Plus shampoo was a board staple. They changed the formula but now, their healing strength line has a similar shampoo to the orginal protein plus. Other ones you can look into that would be similar to the Garnier would be the Redken Extreme or the Biolage fortifying. All of those are fortifying poos which us a little protein but also use fortifying agents like ceramides, fruit acids and panthenol. Other shampoos you can look more into joico kpak shampoo (which is great during the relaxer process btw), paul mitchell super strong, and naked naturals. There are many more but these are just some starter points.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 7, 2009)

Patricia said:


> I'm not a expert but from my experience I use *garnier frutis long and strong shampoo* because it has a bit of protein and it makes my hair feel stong and not weak.  Maybe you can switch your shampoo and see how your hair feels.  I heard aphogee shampoo contain protein too!  Main and tail conditioner suppose to have protein in it.  I think its a light one though.  Correct me if I 'm wrong.  If your hairs is coming out to the touch like mine was I would do a reconstructor of some type. I do mine weekly



It also has a low pH which helps the cuticle stay nice and smooth.  I love how their stuff smells.


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 7, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> Hey Daephae!
> 
> A protein shampoo is a easy way to tweak what you are doing already. In fact, a long time ago, the Lanza Protein Plus shampoo was a board staple. They changed the formula but now, their healing strength line has a similar shampoo to the orginal protein plus. Other ones you can look into that would be similar to the Garnier would be the Redken Extreme or the Biolage fortifying. All of those are fortifying poos which us a little protein but also use fortifying agents like ceramides, fruit acids and panthenol. Other shampoos you can look more into joico kpak shampoo (which is great during the relaxer process btw), paul mitchell super strong, and naked naturals. There are many more but these are just some starter points.


 

Hey Gym!

Oh my goodness. Thanks so much! Not sure if you saw my post but I used to use Biolage years back (before joining LHCF). My hair was strong and grew very nicely but my scalp was super duper dry. I battled with "dandruff" real bad during that time. Since I joined the board, I figured that I am sensitive to SLS. I have avoided it like the plague and now my dandruff is gone. I think in a previous post you said that the Naked Naturals has no SLS and is available at Walgreens? If so, i'm all over that!

Thanks so much once again!


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 7, 2009)

daephae said:


> Hey Gym!
> 
> Oh my goodness. Thanks so much! Not sure if you saw my post but I used to use Biolage years back (before joining LHCF). My hair was strong and grew very nicely but my scalp was super duper dry. I battled with "dandruff" real bad during that time. Since I joined the board, I figured that I am sensitive to SLS. I have avoided it like the plague and now my dandruff is gone. I think in a previous post you said that the Naked Naturals has no SLS and is available at Walgreens? If so, i'm all over that!
> 
> Thanks so much once again!



Yeah, naked naturals doesn't have SLS *goes and grabs bottle*

It uses milder cleansing agents. Here is what it says on the back of the bottle. 

No lauryl or laureth sulfates
No DEA or TEA
No animal by products
No artificial colors
No synthetic fragrance
Not tested on animals and pH balanced


Vegetable protein is the 6th ingredient. It lathers well and is thick, almost sticky when you put it in your hands so you don't need much. I have the orange one and it smells like tic tacs. They also have a lavender on which is for color treated hair. I plan on getting that one next.


----------



## JerriBlank (Jan 7, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> Hey Daephae!
> 
> A protein shampoo is a easy way to tweak what you are doing already. In fact, a long time ago, the Lanza Protein Plus shampoo was a board staple. They changed the formula but now, their healing strength line has a similar shampoo to the orginal protein plus. Other ones you can look into that would be similar to the Garnier would be the Redken Extreme or the Biolage fortifying. All of those are fortifying poos which us a little protein but also use fortifying agents like ceramides, fruit acids and panthenol. Other shampoos you can look more into joico kpak shampoo (which is great during the relaxer process btw), paul mitchell super strong, and naked naturals. There are many more but these are just some starter points.


What about Cream of Nature in the green bottle?
The original one?
Please say it has some kinda protein...*closes eyes and crosses fingers*


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 7, 2009)

ladybeesrch said:


> What about Cream of Nature in the green bottle?
> The original one?
> Please say it has some kinda protein...*closes eyes and crosses fingers*


 



 nope. that's what I use now...it's ultra moisturizing. I'm certain there's not a stitch of 
protein in it.

ETA: I think it may have milk protein in it but its not a protein shampoo per se.


----------



## Muse (Jan 7, 2009)

JDandBeyond said:


> OT: what products from the kpak line do you use and love? Do you use the moisture line as well?  I have been using kenra shampoo and condish as well as Nexxus Therapee and Humectress and LOVE them, but the more I hear about Joico the more I want to give it a try!  I went to Trade Secret a few days ago to pick some up and they had the AUDACITY to be closed at 3pm!  I thought maybe that was my sign to stick with Kenra, but it seems Joico is calling my name!



Hi there,

I use to use the Moisture Recovery line eclusively, the poo, con, and balm(heavy con). I love the shampoo from this line, the regular con has nice slip but is not very moisturizing for my hair, now the BALM!!! This stuff is amazing, not much slip but soooo much moisture. I'm waiting on my MR styling creme to come in the mail(salons don't have it yet).

From the kpak line I have the chelator, poo, con, reconstructor, liquid reconstructor, and intense hydrator. 

The chelator is good for a chelating shampoo, I have used regular poos that stripped my hair more than this one. 

The poo is even better than the MR poo, I kinda feel like this poo should've been in the MR line cuz it leaves my two textured hair soft, moisturized and *VERY* little tangles. This is important especially if you are going to apply the recon after, having to apply that stuff to tangled hair could lead to more breakage.

The regular con I didn't care for and won't repurchase.

The reconstructor is AWESOME! I don't feel like I'm over doing it it just feels like the right amount of reconstructing for my hair. It makes curls pop out that I didn't know I had!

The liquid reconstructor, I haven't figured out exactly when to use this. I was told I could use it daily but if I'm doing the regular reconstructor 1-2xs/wk then I don't see the need for it. I have only used it once so I really can't say if it works but I am going to return it since I'm using the regular one quite often. 

The intense hydrator-nothing special to me, infact it left me feeling like I should use my MR balm. The only reason I would repurchase this is because I was told by Joico that to get the best results from the reconstructor then I should use the poo, recon, and hydrator. 

I think I will just bounce between the two lines to stay balanced because I get sooo much moisture from the MR line but really good strength from the kpak line. I'm glad that I finally found one company to stick with but now it's a matter of finding which products that they offer will work for me, how often to use them, etc. HTH


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Jan 7, 2009)

TaraDyan said:


> Yep ... protein is my friend too. I have heard a lot of naturals say that natural hair really doesn't need protein, but that is sooooo not the case for my hair. My hair always thanks me when I give it a hearty dose of protein, followed by a deep moisturizing conditioner. My protein/moisture treatments seriously define my curls and give them more structure ... it makes them "boingy". I like all kinds of protein too -- both mid grade and hardcore.
> 
> Yep ... protein in my friend.


 
Right.... I do a protein pre-poo and moisture post poo.....


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Jan 7, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Oh wow sorry to hear that. Thanks for letting me know. Keep us posted on your blog.


 

I will - I am WEEERKIN on it!!


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Jan 7, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Oh my goodness you are my hair idol! To get a compliment from you means so much to me.
> All the heartache, sleepless nights was worth it. Are you still on BHM?


 

AWE!!!! 

Once I camped out here at LHCF... I never went back to BHM. I felt a HUGE amount of support here....Working together to get great hair!


----------



## LivingDoll (Jan 7, 2009)

gymfreak336 said:


> Hey Daephae!
> 
> A protein shampoo is a easy way to tweak what you are doing already. In fact, a long time ago, the Lanza Protein Plus shampoo was a board staple. They changed the formula but now, their healing strength line has a similar shampoo to the orginal protein plus. Other ones you can look into that would be similar to the Garnier would be the Redken Extreme or the Biolage fortifying. All of those are fortifying poos which us a little protein but also use fortifying agents like ceramides, fruit acids and panthenol. Other shampoos you can look more into joico kpak shampoo (which is great during the relaxer process btw), paul mitchell super strong, and naked naturals. There are many more but these are just some starter points.


 

I think I'm gonna go with the Coloresse at Sally's. Thanks.


----------



## myronnie (Jan 7, 2009)

I've started using protein weekly and yes my hair has thanked me IMMENSELY.
I use a conditioner with Keratin Amino Acids as a rinse before I do a moisturizing deep conditioner. I also use a protein leave in twice a day. Protein=awesome when properly balanced with moisture!


----------



## Artemis (Jan 7, 2009)

Aggie said:


> I'm not sure I asked this question here or not but I really want to know this. What do you ladies think about watering down the hardcore aphogee treatment by mixing in some moisturizing DC with it before application? Afterall, we can mix other protein and moisturizing deep conditioners together. I'm thinking it probably wouldn't dry quite as hard as it would without the Moisturizing DC but does that really matter? IDK, just throwing thoughts out there....I am still tempted to try it though.


 
No, I think it's your best bet to use another product (perhaps Nexxus Emergencee) in lieu of the Aphogee if you find it too drying for your liking. Odds are that it's too much protein than you need at the moment and you need something else.

Aphogee 2-step works best by following the directions exactly. Diluting it with moisturizer would defeat the purpose of its use IMO/IME.

Edit: The purpose of the 2-step of for the protein to harden the hair to fill in the cracks and holes in the hair shaft. Thats how it strengthens the hair (vegetable protein comes from plants--think about how durable plant cells are!!). So messing with that reduces its effectiveness.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 7, 2009)

Muse said:


> I know what you mean. I used the Kpak poo and hydrator for the first time with the reconstructor last night. Previously I was using the reconstructor with the MR poo and balm. I do have to say I got better results as far as less breakage when I used the whole K pak line (I LOVE the Kpak poo it's better than the MR one!) but I really didn't care for the Intense Hydrator. My hair didn't feel as moisturized as it does when I use the MR balm afterward. I started to put the MR balm on after I rinsed out the hydrator but I didn't want to load my hair with products. I'm hoping when I get the MR leave in styling creme that will help combat some of the dryness. I would substitute the hydrator for the balm if I didn't have such great results as far as less breakage so I'm just going to leave it alone for now and find a good leave in.
> 
> *I think it's a must to moisturize after any protein treatment even if you don't use the hydrator, moisturizing conditioner is a step you do not want to leave out. This is how you keep things balanced.*


 

Ehhhh. Yes and no.

If it is an actual protein _treatment_, and not a creme reconstructor, then use of follow up moisture is mandatory (an example is the Aphogee 2-step or Dudley's DRC 28). If the product is a protein conditioner or a creme reconstructor, then YMMV, in which case if your hair''s need of more or less protein at that particular moment will determine what to do next.

If you are in dire need of protein b/c you hair is overmoisturized, moisturizing after a reconstructor will negate your efforts.

The term "protein treatment" is a blanket term here on the board, so we must clarify what we mean when asking general questions regarding use.


----------



## Artemis (Jan 7, 2009)

Muse said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I use to use the Moisture Recovery line eclusively, the poo, con, and balm(heavy con). I love the shampoo from this line, the regular con has nice slip but is not very moisturizing for my hair, now the BALM!!! This stuff is amazing, not much slip but soooo much moisture. I'm waiting on my MR styling creme to come in the mail(salons don't have it yet).
> 
> ...


 

I use the liquid reconstructor at every wash in lieu of the regular reconstructor. It was designed for fine strands, and I love it dearly  If you are using the DPR regularly, then you don't need the liquid.


----------



## CenteredGirl (Jan 7, 2009)

Gigi!!! your hair looks AWESOME!  Go head nah!!!


Gigi-07 said:


> Yes, IA protein has been VITAL to my hair. It's a big part of my regimen.


----------



## CenteredGirl (Jan 7, 2009)

Okay, it's a date!





samanthajones67 said:


> Oh Dear..... Let's talk on the weekend.
> 
> Love you...
> I am hanging by a thread too.


----------



## morehairplease (Jan 7, 2009)

To the OP thanks so much for starting this thread. Recently, I have been experiencing a little breakage which I attributed to a corrective relaxer I had done this past December. The result/condition of my hair is horrible b/c of it. I am going to start using protein at every wash because my strands definitely need it.


----------



## Spidergul (Jan 7, 2009)

ladybeesrch said:


> What about Cream of Nature in the green bottle?
> The original one?
> Please say it has some kinda protein...*closes eyes and crosses fingers*



I just ordered this online because I can not find it in stores.  They have the new fangled formula that I hear is not as good.  But now I hear it has no protein, well I still need it ffor moisture, but it would be nice to find one that does it all.


----------



## Jassy28 (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks, Artemis...I will have to give these shampoos a try. 


Artemis said:


> Yeah, you may want to consider using a protein-based shampoo, like Joico K-pak or Aphogee shampoo for damaged hair.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 8, 2009)

JDandBeyond said:


> Umm Patricia I nominate you to start the Protein Lovers' Challenge... Challenge to determine the CORRECT usage of protein for maximum hair growth!


Thats a great idea!   So nice of you


----------



## Patricia (Jan 8, 2009)

samanthajones67 said:


> AWE!!!!
> 
> Once I camped out here at LHCF... I never went back to BHM. I felt a HUGE amount of support here....Working together to get great hair!


 
I know I feel the same way


----------



## Patricia (Jan 8, 2009)

myronnie said:


> I've started using protein weekly and yes my hair has thanked me IMMENSELY.
> I use a conditioner with Keratin Amino Acids as a rinse before I do a moisturizing deep conditioner. I also use a protein leave in twice a day. Protein=awesome when properly balanced with moisture!


Good idea.  
Your hair is so healthy and long.  You definetely know what your hair likes


----------



## Patricia (Jan 8, 2009)

tishee said:


> To the OP thanks so much for starting this thread. Recently, I have been experiencing a little breakage which I attributed to a corrective relaxer I had done this past December. The result/condition of my hair is horrible b/c of it. I am going to start using protein at every wash because my strands definitely need it.


Keep us posted on how your hair feels after your next wash.  Hope this thread helps you


----------



## Prose Princess (Jan 8, 2009)

I set my relaxer date for next Friday and I am OH so excited!  I can't believe it's gonna be 15 weeks already!  I'm too scared to do the 2 step Aphogee protein treatment, so I think I am just gonna do the Duo Tex this Friday/Saturday.  I can't wait to see how the protein improves my hair in the long run!


----------



## Patricia (Jan 8, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> I set my relaxer date for next Friday and I am OH so excited! I can't believe it's gonna be 15 weeks already! I'm too scared to do the 2 step Aphogee protein treatment, so I think I am just gonna do the Duo Tex this Friday/Saturday. I can't wait to see how the protein improves my hair in the long run!


 Now you got me anxious to know how the Duo Tex works out for you.  If you remember let me know


----------



## Prose Princess (Jan 8, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Now you got me anxious to know how the Duo Tex works out for you.  If you remember let me know



I sure will!


----------



## morehairplease (Jan 8, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Keep us posted on how your hair feels after your next wash.  Hope this thread helps you




This is DEFIANTLY a keeper! My hair is soft but strong and amazing thicker. I am going to sally's this weekend to look for a creamy reconstructor to use at each wash.

ETA: has anyone tried this one before:
http://www.sallybeauty.com/Keratin-Reconstructor/APHOGE8,default,pd.html

If so, how did it work for you?

tia,
tishee


----------



## RavenMaven (Jan 8, 2009)

Dude, I'm going to try the same thing for myself. I can't take it anymore! My hair is breaking off  at different points, and I know I need protein too. So...should I eat protein or put it in my hair? Or both? I'll try it.


----------



## Aggie (Jan 8, 2009)

tishee said:


> This is DEFIANTLY a keeper! My hair is soft but strong and amazing thicker. I am going to sally's this weekend to look for a creamy reconstructor to use at each wash.
> 
> ETA: has anyone tried this one before:
> http://www.sallybeauty.com/Keratin-Reconstructor/APHOGE8,default,pd.html
> ...





*Tishee, I have both this old formula and the new formula for this exact treatment and they both work fantastic on my hair.*  


waitingtogrow said:


> Dude, I'm going to try the same thing for myself. I can't take it anymore! My hair is breaking off at different points, and I know I need protein too. So...should I eat protein or put it in my hair? Or both? I'll try it.[/quote
> 
> 
> *You should try consuming proteins internally and put them on your hair in the form of reconstructors, protein poos, etc, but keep it all balanced, internally and externally.
> ...


----------



## Artemis (Jan 8, 2009)

angelica said:


> Great thread. my hair definitely needs protein. I have a question - *tonight i used Joico reconstuctor for 15 minutes with heat *and my hair felt great - it was soft and moist. then i used the intense hydrator and my hair felt kinda hard. do you always need to use a moisturiser after a moderate protein treatment like Joico. i feel as if my hair would have been better without the moisture step. TIA


 
I meant to address this earlier, but forgot. Anyhoo, K-pak is meant for cumulative use, versus one hard protein punch. I have read on more than one occassion that after 5 min, k-pak stops working so you want to use it in 5 min increments. I think this is a good way to determine how much protein you need without going overboard(another 'use it till you don't need it' product). In addition, it makes it a good weekly treatment without spending a lot of time on your hair (which is always a good thing )


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## Artemis (Jan 8, 2009)

Patricia said:


> I'm not a expert but from my experience I use *garnier frutis long and strong shampoo because it has a bit of protein* and it makes my hair feel stong and not weak. Maybe you can switch your shampoo and see how your hair feels. I heard aphogee shampoo contain protein too! Main and tail conditioner suppose to have protein in it. I think its a light one though. Correct me if I 'm wrong. If your hairs is coming out to the touch like mine was I would do a reconstructor of some type. I do mine weekly


 
Not protein, _polymers  _Sealing of the cuticle to protect from damage. Good product, made esp. for long hairs who need that extra something on their ends to protect from cuticle weathering.


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## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 8, 2009)

Artemis said:


> Not protein, _polymers  _Sealing of the cuticle to protect from damage. Good product, made esp. for long hairs who need that extra something on their ends to protect from cuticle weathering.



Wow, Artemis, you really know your stuff!


----------



## Aggie (Jan 8, 2009)

I found some Duo Tex Protein Conditioner in one of our BSS stores here in the Bahamas, woo hoo!!! I am so excited about this. NOw when I remove these braids, it's on, or.... maybe I can use while I'm still in my braids, hmmmm, I'll see.

ETA:  Does anyone know if Duo Tex makes the hair hard like Aphogee 2 step hardcore protein treatment  and also is it required to wear a plastic cap with it or no? I am asking because on the bottle it indicates that you should not massage or tangle hair while it's in for 10 minutes an dit doesn't mention a plastic cap at all. It also seems to be a moderate to high strength protein, am I correct?

The one good thing I noticed for sure is it's citric acid content which is great as an after-relaxer 5 minuute pH adjustment treatment.


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## sqzbly1908 (Jan 8, 2009)

Hi Aggie!

I am currently using it and I love it! It is watery but does not get hard like Aphogee. I put it in a spray bottle, combed it through and went about my business for about 45 minutes (last 15 minutes, I put on a cap and sat under a bonnet- couldn't help myself)   Followed up with a DC (u know the routine) and my hair felt substantially stronger. 

You can do it either way (plastic cap, etc) as long as it is in your hair for the minimum amount of time. I would not put it in the same category as Aphogee or Emergencee' 

HTH


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## Aggie (Jan 8, 2009)

sqzbly1908 said:


> Hi Aggie!
> 
> I am currently using it and I love it! It is watery but does not get hard like Aphogee. I put it in a spray bottle, combed it through and went about my business for about 45 minutes (last 15 minutes, I put on a cap and sat under a bonnet- couldn't help myself)  Followed up with a DC (u know the routine) and my hair felt substantially stronger.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you so much sqzbly1908. This was very helpful. 
OT : By the way, I see you are using Miznai BB Mild - How does your hair respond to it. Does it relax your hair pretty straight or no. I jsut bought it today to use at tehe end of this month and I don't know if I should add oils  to it or not. I don't want my hair super bone straight, just mildly straight. How do you suggest I use it for that effect and how long should I leave it on my hair?


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## Faith (Jan 8, 2009)

Thinking I was natural now and didn't need protein I stopped using it and found out that YUP, I do need it.  I started using protein again yesterday.  Today I have less breakage and shedding.


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## sqzbly1908 (Jan 8, 2009)

Aggie said:


> Thank you so much sqzbly1908. This was very helpful.
> OT : By the way, I see you are using Miznai BB Mild - How does your hair respond to it. Does it relax your hair pretty straight or no. I jsut bought it today to use at tehe end of this month and I don't know if I should add oils  to it or not. I don't want my hair super bone straight, just mildly straight. How do you suggest I use it for that effect and how long should I leave it on my hair?



You are so welcome! 

With the MBB, I used it for the time allotted and had a very slight wave - not bone straight (did not want bone straight). I was so surprised when I first used it because my hair is so fine, as soon as any relaxer touches it I am bone straight.  It left my hair incredibly soft and full of body. I have used it for my last 3 retouches and get the same results. 

If you are an expert in self-relaxing, I would not add anything to it, if not (like myself) then I would add oils/conditioner for the interest of buying time. I can't really tell the density of your hair from your pic but if you don't want bone straight don't add anything to it, especially since this is your 1st time using it.

Since you have the US DT - I would use that as soon as you rinse the relaxer out and before neutralizing it.

How are you going to style ur hair afterwards?


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## Aggie (Jan 8, 2009)

sqzbly1908 said:


> You are so welcome!
> 
> With the MBB, I used it for the time allotted and had a very slight wave - not bone straight (did not want bone straight). I was so surprised when I first used it because my hair is so fine, as soon as any relaxer touches it I am bone straight. It left my hair incredibly soft and full of body. I have used it for my last 3 retouches and get the same results.
> 
> ...


First of all honey, thanks so much for your response, it was very helpful. As for how I iwll be fixing my hair, I know that I am due for a trim and that I will let my stylist do for me. I think I might consider letting her give me a wrap after the trim. I don't like thin whispy wraps either. I like my wraps to have a little body. My hair is pretty fine myself so I won't need it bone straight to get a nice wrapped look. I know too that about 2 weeks later I will be back in my quick weaves/wigs or even a weave, not too sure yet. I toyed with the idea of learning how to do pigtails with extensions as well as soon as I take these braids down. Wish me luck!


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## sqzbly1908 (Jan 8, 2009)

I can't wait friend, *definitely keep me posted*. I can tell that wrap will be gorgeous 

2 weeks....


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## Aggie (Jan 8, 2009)

sqzbly1908 said:


> I can't wait friend, *definitely keep me posted*. I can tell that wrap will be gorgeous
> 
> 2 weeks....


 
Definitely!!! remember now, I am currently wearing braids and will most likely be taking them down in about 2 weeks, I will then wait 2 weeks and then relax it, so I'd say about the first week in February for sure, I should be doing my relaxer. I don't want to do them too early because I will going to see my BFF in NE next month for valentine's day and I want my hair to look as fresh as possible for him, ya know?


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## sqzbly1908 (Jan 8, 2009)

Aggie said:


> Definitely!!! remember now, I am currently wearing braids and will most likely be taking them down in about 2 weeks, I will then wait 2 weeks and then relax it, so I'd say about the first week in February for sure, I should be doing my relaxer. I don't want to do them too early because I will going to see my BFF in NE next month for valentine's day and I want my hair to look as fresh as possible for him, ya know?



Gotcha chica!:eyebrows2

That will be around the time when I will be doing my retouch too (Valentine's)


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## Patricia (Jan 9, 2009)

tishee said:


> This is DEFIANTLY a keeper! My hair is soft but strong and amazing thicker. I am going to sally's this weekend to look for a creamy reconstructor to use at each wash.
> 
> ETA: has anyone tried this one before:
> http://www.sallybeauty.com/Keratin-Reconstructor/APHOGE8,default,pd.html
> ...


GOOD TO HEAR!   WHAT DID YOU USE? 
I USED THAT PRODUCT BUT I CANT REMEMBER HOW I LIKED IT.  I GET THAT ONE AND ANOTHER APHOGEE PRODUCT MIXED UP.  SORRY


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## Patricia (Jan 9, 2009)

waitingtogrow said:


> Dude, I'm going to try the same thing for myself. I can't take it anymore! My hair is breaking off at different points, and I know I need protein too. So...should I eat protein or put it in my hair? Or both? I'll try it.


GOOD QUESTION.  I USE A PROTIEN RECONSTRUCTOR OF SOME TYPE EVERYWEEK MIXED IN WITH MANE AND TAIL CONDITIONER.  I'M SLOWLY REBUILDING MY HAIR FROM ALL THE DAMAGE THAT OCCURED FROM NOT USING PROTEIN  .  LOT OF LADIES HERE UP THEIR PROTEIN THEY EAT TOO! AYBE SOMEONE ELSE WILL CHIME IN.


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## Patricia (Jan 9, 2009)

Aggie said:


> *Tishee, I have both this old formula and the new formula for this exact treatment and they both work fantastic on my hair.*
> 
> 
> waitingtogrow said:
> ...


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## Patricia (Jan 9, 2009)

Artemis said:


> Not protein, _polymers  _Sealing of the cuticle to protect from damage. Good product, made esp. for long hairs who need that extra something on their ends to protect from cuticle weathering.


O COOL THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I NOW HAVE A EXCUSE TO BUY APHOGEE SHAMPOO.  SOMETHING THAT REALLY HAVE PROTEIN.


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## Patricia (Jan 9, 2009)

Aggie said:


> I found some Duo Tex Protein Conditioner in one of our BSS stores here in the Bahamas, woo hoo!!! I am so excited about this. NOw when I remove these braids, it's on, or.... maybe I can use while I'm still in my braids, hmmmm, I'll see.
> 
> ETA: Does anyone know if Duo Tex makes the hair hard like Aphogee 2 step hardcore protein treatment* and also is it required to wear a plastic cap with it or no?* I am asking because on the bottle it indicates that you should not massage or tangle hair while it's in for 10 minutes an dit doesn't mention a plastic cap at all. *It also seems to be a moderate to high strength protein, am I correct?*
> The one good thing I noticed for sure is it's citric acid content which is great as an after-relaxer 5 minuute pH adjustment treatment.


I USED IT FULL STRENGTH WITH PLASTIC CAP.  I LEFT IT ON FOR 10-15 MIN AND RINSED.  I DIDN'T FOLLOW IT WITH ANYTHING.  MY HAIR WAS SILKY SMOOTH
ARTEMIS HELPPPPPPP.


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## Lucky's Mom (Jan 9, 2009)

So - Patricia - thanks again for this post...
To sum it up.. Naturals and relaxed ladies NEED protien in the regimen!!!!!


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## Patricia (Jan 9, 2009)

Faith said:


> Thinking I was natural now and didn't need protein I stopped using it and found out that YUP, I do need it. I started using protein again yesterday. Today I have less breakage and shedding.


GLAD YOU FIGURED IT OUT.  YOUR HAIR IS GROWING VERY WELL.  DON'T NEED ANY PROBLEMS


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## Artemis (Jan 9, 2009)

Patricia said:


> I USED IT FULL STRENGTH WITH PLASTIC CAP. I LEFT IT ON FOR 10-15 MIN AND RINSED. I DIDN'T FOLLOW IT WITH ANYTHING. MY HAIR WAS SILKY SMOOTH
> ARTEMIS HELPPPPPPP.


 
PM Gymfreak  She is the Duo Tex expert.


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## KLomax (Jan 9, 2009)

Yes,protein is your friend .....It tooks me months to figure this out!!!  I use the Joico Kpak DPR followed by the hydrolizer every week.


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## sqzbly1908 (Jan 9, 2009)

Patricia said:


> I USED IT FULL STRENGTH WITH PLASTIC CAP.  I LEFT IT ON FOR 10-15 MIN AND RINSED.  I DIDN'T FOLLOW IT WITH ANYTHING.  MY HAIR WAS SILKY SMOOTH
> ARTEMIS HELPPPPPPP.



Hi Patricia - Please forgive me for dipping into your conversation I have used it without backing up with a moisturizing DC and did not have any ill effects. It is supposed to be a "little" moisturizing as well. You should be fine.When I DC after using is because I ...*1- have time 2- personal preference 3- if I have not moisturized lately*. If your hair is feeling dry and tangly(is that even a word) then I would follow up with a condish with some slip. But you should be cooler than the flipped side of a pillow 

HTH


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## Patricia (Jan 9, 2009)

KLomax said:


> Yes,protein is your friend .....It tooks me months to figure this out!!! I use the Joico Kpak DPR followed by the hydrolizer every week.


beautiful hair


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## morehairplease (Jan 9, 2009)

Patricia said:


> GOOD TO HEAR!   WHAT DID YOU USE?
> I USED THAT PRODUCT BUT I CANT REMEMBER HOW I LIKED IT.  I GET THAT ONE AND ANOTHER APHOGEE PRODUCT MIXED UP.  SORRY



hey there sweetie,

Just noticed that I thanked you for your response but failed to answer your question....sorry about that. I used Colorful neutral protein filler without heat for an hour.


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## africa (Jan 9, 2009)

Great Thread!

I need to step up my protein game too.  I thought why in the heck is this 'My Discovery' thread so long? LOL.  I am so glad I came in here.  There is a wealth of helpful information in here.  I am going to try the Joico K-Pak Reconstructer and hydrator this weekend.


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## Aggie (Jan 9, 2009)

I just learned that the Abba hair care line has Tri-Molecular Proteins, ie, hydrolyzed human hair protein, in them and I will be ordering those instead of Joico since I'm concentrating on using more organic natural products. Abba hair products are all natural and organic, thank goodness I found something natural with these proteins in them for my hair.


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## Patricia (Jan 10, 2009)

africa said:


> Great Thread!
> 
> I need to step up my protein game too. I thought why in the heck is this 'My Discovery' thread so long? LOL. I am so glad I came in here. There is a wealth of helpful information in here. I am going to try the Joico K-Pak Reconstructer and hydrator this weekend.


Oh yes the ladies here is so helpful.  It would have been appropiate to  call this thread "OUR DISCOVERY"  cause it seems like we all have been through similiar problems with our hair care.


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## Prose Princess (Jan 10, 2009)

Well, Patricia, I think I may have experienced my first protein overload from the Duo Tex  Even with my amazing moisturizing conditioner mixture and an hour with heat my hair still came out hard and tangled.  I left the Duo Tex on for the full ten minutes, so maybe I should have just rinsed it out immediately or left it on for about a minute.  I'm sure I can get my hair back to normal before my relaxer on Friday with a few overnight DC treatments, but at least now I have a better idea of how much protein my hair can take.  And I will definitely at least do a light (_very_ light) protein treatment at the wash after my relaxer.

One good thing I can say about the Duo Tex though, is that it kind of straightened out my roots I think, because my wet hair looked about an inch longer than it did last time I washed it, and it felt heavier.


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## Aggie (Jan 10, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> Well, Patricia, I think I may have experienced my first protein overload from the Duo Tex  Even with my amazing moisturizing conditioner mixture and an hour with heat my hair still came out hard and tangled.  I left the Duo Tex on for the full ten minutes, so maybe I should have just rinsed it out immediately or left it on for about a minute. I'm sure I can get my hair back to normal before my relaxer on Friday with a few overnight DC treatments, but at least now I have a better idea of how much protein my hair can take. And I will definitely at least do a light (_very_ light) protein treatment at the wash after my relaxer.
> 
> *One good thing I can say about the Duo Tex though, is that it kind of straightened out my roots I think, because my wet hair looked about an inch longer* than it did last time I washed it, and it felt heavier.


 
I would attribute that to the citric acid in the duo tex. It helps to give great slip.


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## victorious (Jan 10, 2009)

I finally tried the Aphogee 2 minute reconstructor last night after washing with diluted shampoo, and I like it.  It smelled so yummy. My hair was so soft afterwards that I didn't bother to dc. I have to get the big bottle from Sally's next week so I could use it weekly.

I'll try the hardcore Aphogee 2 step treatment again a week before relaxing in March  and also DC with the ORS Replenishing Conditioner.  I'll definitely use the Aphogee 2 minute reconstructor after rinsing the relaxer. I'll henna one week after relaxing.


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## Patricia (Jan 10, 2009)

Prose Princess said:


> Well, Patricia, I think I may have experienced my first protein overload from the Duo Tex  Even with my amazing moisturizing conditioner mixture and an hour with heat my hair still came out hard and tangled.  I left the Duo Tex on for the full ten minutes, so maybe I should have just rinsed it out immediately or left it on for about a minute. I'm sure I can get my hair back to normal before my relaxer on Friday with a few overnight DC treatments, but at least now I have a better idea of how much protein my hair can take. And I will definitely at least do a light (_very_ light) protein treatment at the wash after my relaxer.
> 
> One good thing I can say about the Duo Tex though, is that it kind of straightened out my roots I think, because my wet hair looked about an inch longer than it did last time I washed it, and it felt heavier.


 dont really sound like a protein overload.  when you have a protein overload you will have small hairs breaking off.  you will be fine with a moisturizer for a couple days.  what moisturizing conditioner did you use.   maybe you can use it in your moisturizing conditioner with better results


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## Patricia (Jan 10, 2009)

victorious said:


> I finally tried the Aphogee 2 minute reconstructor last night after washing with diluted shampoo, and I like it.  It smelled so yummy. My hair was so soft afterwards that I didn't bother to dc. I have to get the big bottle from Sally's next week so I could use it weekly.
> 
> I'll try the hardcore Aphogee 2 step treatment again a week before relaxing in March  and also DC with the ORS Replenishing Conditioner. I'll definitely use the Aphogee 2 minute reconstructor after rinsing the relaxer. I'll henna one week after relaxing.


 Glad to hear!!!


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## Artemis (Jan 10, 2009)

Prose Princess, what moisturizing conditioner did you use?


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## mahogany_horizons (Jan 10, 2009)

I AGREE WITH YOU LADIES REGARDING THE PROTEIN.  There is no problems and issues with using protein as long as you monitor it carefully.  I use silk elements treatment for damaged hair (contains a protein) for 15 minutes with a shower cap.  I then deep condition with the silk elements moisturizing conditioner for about 2 hours (THIS STEP IS KEY!!)  I went to a party last weekend, I d/c before with the protien, and I only got to deep condition for around an hour.  When I took my hair down to wash it, it was soooo tangly!  You really have to take the time and d/c until your hair is buttery soft.  This may or may not include heat.  And you may need to leave the moisture conditioner on for 2 to 3 hours....but my hair LOVES MILD to MEDIUM protein!  I don't think I need it every week, but as i use it every other week, particularly because I am heavy handed, and douse so much moisture on my hair, I feel it working for me!


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## Patricia (Jan 10, 2009)

mahogany_horizons said:


> I AGREE WITH YOU LADIES REGARDING THE PROTEIN. There is no problems and issues with using protein as long as you monitor it carefully. I use silk elements treatment for damaged hair (contains a protein) for 15 minutes with a shower cap. I then deep condition with the silk elements moisturizing conditioner for about 2 hours (THIS STEP IS KEY!!) I went to a party last weekend, I d/c before with the protien, and I only got to deep condition for around an hour. When I took my hair down to wash it, it was soooo tangly! You really have to take the time and d/c until your hair is buttery soft. This may or may not include heat. And you may need to leave the moisture conditioner on for 2 to 3 hours....but my hair LOVES MILD to MEDIUM protein! I don't think I need it every week, but as i use it every other week, particularly because I am heavy handed, and douse so much moisture on my hair, I feel it working for me!


 It seems like you balance your protein out good.  It feels good to finally know what your hair likes.  I hear good things about the silk elements conditioner trying not to buy it


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## mahogany_horizons (Jan 11, 2009)

YES, IT TRULY DOES FEEL GOOD TO FINALLY know what your hair likes.  I feel like for all these years, i have been searching alon gin the dark trying to find what my hair needed.  I always had no problem getting hair between  APL and BSL, and my hair was never shorter than SL....but I would always have to for some reason trim back to SL because of DAMAGE, mainly due to split ends.  But now I know what my har needs   Hair needs protein, to some degree, (or I should say most hair) b/c it imparts strength.  As long as you then give your hair the mositure it needs, it is good.  And I know some people who use it every week.  I only  need it every two to three weeks.  But it really helps especially if you are stretching.

Girll I am not trying to discuourage you from doing the right thing and limiting PJism, but I have all the silk elements line conditioners, and I LOVE THEM!!


Moistursing conditoner (use every wash)
Cholestorol (every other wash)
Hair mayoniase (every two to three weeks)
Reconditionant (only use after a relaxer, and perhaps the week after)
THESE CONDITONERS ARE GREAT.  They have restored the health and vitality of my hair!!  they are all I use as far as conditoners go and I love them!

Try them.

You won't be sorry.

And no they aren't paying me girlie ;-)


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## africa (Jan 12, 2009)

Coarse hair ladies (thick/wirey/thread like strands) don't sleep on the protein!!   I deep conditioned with Joico's Intense Reconstructer and Rehydrant and my hair feels fabulous! 

 I know protein can make coarse hair feel dry and brittle at times but don't be like me and avoid deep conditioning with it.  It seems like my hair is actually holding on to more moisture longer after this deep treatment, and feels softer.  Looks like I need a hardcore protein occasionally.


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## AtlantaJJ (Jan 12, 2009)

I used Sebastian's 2+1 (hydrolyzed soy protein) and then followed with Jessica's Babbasu Butter conditoner. My hair felt strong yet soft not hard at all, and I didn't have one broken hair.... My hair likes protein, it just needs a moisture chaser...


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## AtlantaJJ (Jan 12, 2009)

Aggie said:


> I just learned that the Abba hair care line has Tri-Molecular Proteins, ie, hydrolyzed human hair protein, in them and I will be ordering those instead of Joico since I'm concentrating on using more organic natural products. Abba hair products are all natural and organic, thank goodness I found something natural with these proteins in them for my hair.


I'll switch over to this brand after I use up all my Joico...


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## LivingDoll (Jan 12, 2009)

I used the Apoghee 2 Min Keratin Treatment midstep after relaxing with SE Lye Mild and I loved it! I also used SE Mayo and despite the strong smell I like the way my hair turned out. I'm very pleased. My hair is definitely swangin' today! Thanks ladies. There is a noticeable difference. I definitely needed the protein.


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## Patricia (Jan 12, 2009)

mahogany_horizons said:


> YES, IT TRULY DOES FEEL GOOD TO FINALLY know what your hair likes. *I feel like for all these years, i have been searching alon gin the dark trying to find what my hair needed*. *I always had no problem getting hair between APL and BSL, and my hair was never shorter than SL*....but I would always have to for some reason trim back to SL because of DAMAGE, mainly due to split ends. But now I know what my har needs  Hair needs protein, to some degree, (or I should say most hair) b/c it imparts strength. As long as you then give your hair the mositure it needs, it is good. And I know some people who use it every week. I only need it every two to three weeks. But it really helps especially if you are stretching.
> 
> *Girll I am not trying to discuourage you from doing the right thing and limiting PJism, but I have all the *silk elements line conditioners, and I LOVE THEM!!
> 
> ...


 ITS OFFICIAL I'M GOING TO TRY THE WHOLE LINE. I'M FEELING YOU I ALSO HAD LONG HAIR WITH NO PROBLEM WITH GROWTH.  AT THIS POINT I HAVE TO DO TREATMENTS EVERYWEEK FOR MY HAIR TO REBUILD ITSELF.  I BALANCE MY MOISTURE/PROTEIN CAUSE I MIX MY RECONSTRUTOR WITH MOISTURIZING CONDITIONER. I ALSO MOISTURISE WITH NTM LEAVE IN 1-2X A WEEK.  BEST THING I COULD HAVE DONE TO MY HAIR.


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## LivingDoll (Jan 12, 2009)

mahogany_horizons said:


> YES, IT TRULY DOES FEEL GOOD TO FINALLY know what your hair likes. I feel like for all these years, i have been searching alon gin the dark trying to find what my hair needed. I always had no problem getting hair between APL and BSL, and my hair was never shorter than SL....but I would always have to for some reason trim back to SL because of DAMAGE, mainly due to split ends. But now I know what my har needs  Hair needs protein, to some degree, (or I should say most hair) b/c it imparts strength. As long as you then give your hair the mositure it needs, it is good. And I know some people who use it every week. I only need it every two to three weeks. But it really helps especially if you are stretching.
> 
> Girll I am not trying to discuourage you from doing the right thing and limiting PJism, but I have all the silk elements line conditioners, and I LOVE THEM!!
> 
> ...


 
I'm becoming a Silk Elements junkie myself! It's a great line. It really is.


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## Patricia (Jan 12, 2009)

AtlantaJJ said:


> I used Sebastian's 2+1 (hydrolyzed soy protein) and then followed with Jessica's Babbasu Butter conditoner. My hair felt strong yet soft not hard at all, and I didn't have one broken hair.... My hair likes protein, it just needs a moisture chaser...


THATS HOW MY HAIR FELT AFTER USING DUOTEX  STRONG YET SOFT


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## mahogany_horizons (Jan 12, 2009)

Patricia said:


> ITS OFFICIAL I'M GOING TO TRY THE WHOLE LINE. I'M FEELING YOU I ALSO HAD LONG HAIR WITH NO PROBLEM WITH GROWTH.  AT THIS POINT I HAVE TO DO TREATMENTS EVERYWEEK FOR MY HAIR TO REBUILD ITSELF.  I BALANCE MY MOISTURE/PROTEIN CAUSE I MIX MY RECONSTRUTOR WITH MOISTURIZING CONDITIONER. I ALSO MOISTURISE WITH NTM LEAVE IN 1-2X A WEEK.  BEST THING I COULD HAVE DONE TO MY HAIR.



Yes, it sounds like you have a good balance between moisture and protein, which is mainly what our hair needs to thrive   Good for you.

YES, PLEASE GO GET THOSE SILK ELEMENTS CONDITIONERS AND TELL ME HOW YOU LIKE THEM   I loovveee them


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## mahogany_horizons (Jan 12, 2009)

daephae said:


> I'm becoming a Silk Elements junkie myself! It's a great line. It really is.




LOL...I love it too girlie.  I have every thing...the glossing polish, the wrap lotion, the leave in moisturizer (this is all I use as a leave in) the shampoo....the gel lol...basically the works   Me and my hair have NEVER BEEN HAPPIER


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## Muse (Jan 12, 2009)

I have finally gotten my routine down (I think). I plan to wash twice a week, once with the MR line and once with the Kpak line with reconstructor. I figure this will balance me out with the protein/moisture. The only leave in I use now is Lacio Lacio it is the only leave in that keeps my hair CONSISTENTLY soft and moisturized and it has hydrolyzed silk as the 3rd ingredient-this is nice and light and good for moisturizing and strength. I couldn't use regular cond as a leave in anymore because it was causing build up. I am still waiting on my MR styling creme and will use that when I need a little extra help with frizzies. I am trying to keep my product usage to a minimum.


----------



## Patricia (Jan 14, 2009)

africa said:


> Coarse hair ladies (thick/wirey/thread like strands) don't sleep on the protein!! I deep conditioned with Joico's Intense Reconstructer and Rehydrant and my hair feels fabulous!
> 
> I know protein can make coarse hair feel dry and brittle at times but don't be like me and avoid deep conditioning with it. It seems like my hair is actually holding on to more moisture longer after this deep treatment, and feels softer. Looks like I need a hardcore protein occasionally.


 
SO TRUE Thanks for sharing


----------



## Patricia (Jan 14, 2009)

AtlantaJJ said:


> I used Sebastian's 2+1 (hydrolyzed soy protein) and then followed with Jessica's Babbasu Butter conditoner. My hair felt strong yet soft not hard at all, and I didn't have one broken hair.... My hair likes protein, it just needs a moisture chaser...


Never tried Sebsation 2+1 or jessica's.  I think I'm going to go through this thread and write down all the the recommended protein products just to keep on hand.  Thanks a lot for your review


----------



## morehairplease (Jan 14, 2009)

Muse said:


> *I have finally gotten my routine down (I think). I plan to wash twice a week*, once with the MR line and once with the Kpak line with reconstructor. I figure this will balance me out with the protein/moisture. The only leave in I use now is Lacio Lacio it is the only leave in that keeps my hair CONSISTENTLY soft and moisturized and it has hydrolyzed silk as the 3rd ingredient-this is nice and light and good for moisturizing and strength. I couldn't use regular cond as a leave in anymore because it was causing build up. I am still waiting on my MR styling creme and will use that when I need a little extra help with frizzies. I am trying to keep my product usage to a minimum.




For my two weekly washes, I am alternating moisture and protein so far it is working for me too. I hope it works for you b/c this hair thing gets so darn confusing/frustrating to me at times.


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## Patricia (Jan 14, 2009)

daephae said:


> I used the Apoghee 2 Min Keratin Treatment midstep after relaxing with SE Lye Mild and I loved it! I also used SE Mayo and despite the strong smell I like the way my hair turned out. I'm very pleased. My hair is definitely swangin' today! Thanks ladies. There is a noticeable difference. I definitely needed the protein.


I heard ya.  Yes the ladies are so helpful here


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## Patricia (Jan 14, 2009)

mahogany_horizons said:


> Yes, it sounds like you have a good balance between moisture and protein, which is mainly what our hair needs to thrive  Good for you.
> 
> YES, PLEASE GO GET THOSE SILK ELEMENTS CONDITIONERS AND TELL ME HOW YOU LIKE THEM  I loovveee them


fo sho


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## Patricia (Jan 14, 2009)

Muse said:


> I have finally gotten my routine down (I think). I plan to wash twice a week, once with the MR line and once with the Kpak line with reconstructor. I figure this will balance me out with the protein/moisture. The only leave in I use now is Lacio Lacio it is the only leave in that keeps my hair CONSISTENTLY soft and moisturized and it has hydrolyzed silk as the 3rd ingredient-this is nice and light and good for moisturizing and strength. I couldn't use regular cond as a leave in anymore because it was causing build up. I am still waiting on my MR styling creme and will use that when I need a little extra help with frizzies. I am trying to keep my product usage to a minimum.


 Oh my a lot of people luv this leave in.   I just ordered the rusk leave in.  hope it works for me.  I ordered the big bottle


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## malachi74 (Jan 14, 2009)

my hair does not like gels that have wheat protein anywhere near the upper half of the ingredient list. my strands start feeling strawlike and brittle. Because of this I would never try anything harder than ORS Hair Mayo but still experienced what I was  calling regular/normal beakage.

But it's a new year and I'm tire of my hair breaking all the time, so after reading this thread I decided to try my first hard protein treatment. I used the Aphogee 2-step treatment on Monday. I really like it and will be using it every 6 weeks, added into the schedule along with my moisturizing DC, the ORS Mayo, then the aphogee. I hope to see an end to breakgae and increased strength and length retention!


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## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 15, 2009)

Good lawd this new regimen has been working wonders for me...

Ever since Patricia started this thread, I've upped my regular use of protein-infused products, using the Joico Kpak line. Last night I went to wash my hair - I used Porosity Control Shampoo & Corrector, then used Mizani Fulfyl. I didn't DC or anything either, just let it sit on my hair for about 5 minutes. When I tell you my hair is holding onto moisture much better, my strands feel a whole lot stronger yet super pliable - supple almost. I was too lazy to rollerset and airdried and my hair still feel great, even with all this darn new growth. I am shocked. This is the healthiest my hair has felt in my 2 years of LHCF. 

Thanks for starting this thread, Patricia. Seriously. It was the lightbulb moment that I needed.


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## Muse (Jan 15, 2009)

tishee said:


> For my two weekly washes, I am alternating moisture and protein so far it is working for me too. *I hope it works for you b/c this hair thing gets so darn confusing/frustrating to me at times.*



I'm glad to hear this is working for you it makes me feel better, like I'm on the right track! You are right this can be very confusing but I think we are headed in the right direction.


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## Muse (Jan 15, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Oh my a lot of people luv this leave in.   I just ordered the rusk leave in.  hope it works for me.  I ordered the big bottle



Yeah it's a really great leave in but it's such a hassle to find the right formula now because the company changed the ingredients and put a bunch of garbage in the new bottles so it's been a battle to find the good formulas but I finally did

I've heard about the Rusk leave in. When you try it please post your review.


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## Muse (Jan 15, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> Good lawd this new regimen has been working wonders for me...
> 
> Ever since Patricia started this thread, I've upped my regular use of protein-infused products, using the Joico Kpak line. Last night I went to wash my hair - I used Porosity Control Shampoo & Corrector, then used Mizani Fulfyl. I didn't DC or anything either, just let it sit on my hair for about 5 minutes. When I tell you my hair is holding onto moisture much better, *my strands feel a whole lot stronger yet super pliable* - supple almost. I was too lazy to rollerset and airdried and my hair still feel great, even with all this darn new growth. I am shocked. This is the healthiest my hair has felt in my 2 years of LHCF.
> 
> Thanks for starting this thread, Patricia. Seriously. It was the lightbulb moment that I needed.



ITA. I washed my hair last night and I tried to break the shed hairs apart and they actually resisted, some hairs I couldn't break! I love this new revelation! With hair this strong I should be able to gain lots of length.


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## Aggie (Jan 15, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> Good lawd this new regimen has been working wonders for me...
> 
> Ever since Patricia started this thread, I've upped my regular use of protein-infused products, using the Joico Kpak line. Last night I went to wash my hair - I used Porosity Control Shampoo & Corrector, then used Mizani Fulfyl. I didn't DC or anything either, just let it sit on my hair for about 5 minutes. When I tell you my hair is holding onto moisture much better, my strands feel a whole lot stronger yet super pliable - supple almost. I was too lazy to rollerset and airdried and my hair still feel great, even with all this darn new growth. I am shocked. This is the healthiest my hair has felt in my 2 years of LHCF.
> 
> Thanks for starting this thread, Patricia. Seriously. It was the lightbulb moment that I needed.


 
Wow!! I came in to say the exact same thing. I'm relaxed and m hair is loving the extra protein I'm putting on it. I am now 11 weeks post my last relaxer and I tell you I have had very little to no demarcation breakage as a result of the new protein addition to my hair. 

Thank you so much Patricia for this new enlightenment. I noticed that with the protein, I really don't have to use heat or let it stay on that long either. 5-10 minutes without heat is working fine for me. I love it!!!

ETA: I am keeping the proteins somewhat mild to moderate. I do have the hardcore protein but I don't think I will be needing it. I'll see. It seem that by adding some kind of mild protein once a week is perfect as long as it's followed or accompanied by some moisturizing conditioning as well. After moisturizing my hair after my last wash, it was ridiculously soft, so soft that I coulnd't keep my hands out of my hair, sorry Muffin....I will be continuing this regimen for a long long time to come.


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## Patricia (Jan 15, 2009)

malachi74 said:


> my hair does not like gels that have wheat protein anywhere near the upper half of the ingredient list. my strands start feeling strawlike and brittle. Because of this I would never try anything harder than ORS Hair Mayo but still experienced what I was calling regular/normal beakage.
> 
> But it's a new year and I'm tire of my hair breaking all the time, so after reading this thread I decided to try my first hard protein treatment. I used the Aphogee 2-step treatment on Monday. I really like it and will be using it every 6 weeks, added into the schedule along with my moisturizing DC, the ORS Mayo, then the aphogee. I hope to see an end to breakgae and increased strength and length retention!


All wow.  Keep us posted on how your hair feels the next time!  Thats what I'm working on strength and length retention.  Thats why I incorporated it too. I was Tired of my hair shedding, breaking and mushy.


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## Patricia (Jan 15, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> Good lawd this new regimen has been working wonders for me...
> 
> Ever since Patricia started this thread, I've upped my regular use of protein-infused products, using the Joico Kpak line. Last night I went to wash my hair - I used Porosity Control Shampoo & Corrector, then used Mizani Fulfyl. I didn't DC or anything either, just let it sit on my hair for about 5 minutes. When I tell you my hair is holding onto moisture much better, my strands feel a whole lot stronger yet super pliable - supple almost. I was too lazy to rollerset and airdried and my hair still feel great, even with all this darn new growth. I am shocked. This is the healthiest my hair has felt in my 2 years of LHCF.
> 
> Thanks for starting this thread, Patricia. Seriously. It was the lightbulb moment that I needed.


You are so welcome!  The beginning of my hair journey all I heard was moisturize.......It actually made since to me cause back in the day I had a jeri curl.  Whatever that jericurl chemical was it needed moisture.  I was faitHful to my moisturizing routine cause I remember how healthy my hair was with the jeri curl.  Fast forward today I didn't need all that dang on moisture.  I AINT GOT NO JERI CURL.  .  anyway a lesson learned.  I moisturize a couple times a week now.  I am so tempted to start a challenge.  I've been getting such good feedback from you ladies and I hate to lose contact.  I'm so happy people has been at least tryng protein out and liking the results.  I wonder how many people would join a PROTEIN IS MY FRIEND CHALLENGE.  I was thinking to keep it simple.  Check in every week and share what product was used and how your hair feel.  THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR FEEDBACK


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## Patricia (Jan 15, 2009)

Muse said:


> I'm glad to hear this is working for you it makes me feel better, like I'm on the right track! You are right this can be very confusing but I think we are headed in the right direction.


 ME TOO!


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## LivingDoll (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks ladies! I'm loving the Aphogee 2 Minute Keratin Reconstructor! My hair felt stronger and was still soft.


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## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 15, 2009)

daephae said:


> Thanks ladies! I'm loving the Aphogee 2 Minute Keratin Reconstructor! My hair felt stronger and was still soft.



Daephae, I've been following your progress, and your hair looks AMAZING!!!


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## Patricia (Jan 15, 2009)

Muse said:


> Yeah it's a really great leave in but it's such a hassle to find the right formula now because the company changed the ingredients and put a bunch of garbage in the new bottles so it's been a battle to find the good formulas but I finally did
> 
> I've heard about the Rusk leave in. When you try it please post your review.


IT SHOULD BE HERE BY FRIDAY.  WILL DEF KEEP YOU POSTED


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## LivingDoll (Jan 15, 2009)

sunshinebeautiful said:


> Daephae, I've been following your progress, and your hair looks AMAZING!!!


 

Awww! Thanks so much!


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## Patricia (Jan 15, 2009)

Muse said:


> ITA. I washed my hair last night and I tried to break the shed hairs apart and they actually resisted, some hairs I couldn't break! I love this new revelation! With hair this strong I should be able to gain lots of length.


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## Patricia (Jan 15, 2009)

Aggie said:


> Wow!! I came in to say the exact same thing. I'm relaxed and m hair is loving the extra protein I'm putting on it. I am now 11 weeks post my last relaxer and I tell you I have had very little to no demarcation breakage as a result of the new protein addition to my hair.
> 
> Thank you so much Patricia for this new enlightenment. I noticed that with the protein, I really don't have to use heat or let it stay on that long either. 5-10 minutes without heat is working fine for me. I love it!!!
> 
> ETA: I am keeping the proteins somewhat mild to moderate. I do have the hardcore protein but I don't think I will be needing it. I'll see. It seem that by adding some kind of mild protein once a week is perfect as long as it's followed or accompanied by some moisturizing conditioning as well. After moisturizing my hair after my last wash, it was ridiculously soft, so soft that I coulnd't keep my hands out of my hair, sorry Muffin....I will be continuing this regimen for a long long time to come.





ME TOO! THANKS FOR EVERYTHING AND FOR ALL YOUR SUPPORT.


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## Aggie (Jan 15, 2009)

Patricia said:


> You are so welcome! The beginning of my hair journey all I heard was moisturize.......It actually made since to me cause back in the day I had a jeri curl. Whatever that jericurl chemical was it needed moisture. I was faitHful to my moisturizing routine cause I remember how healthy my hair was with the jeri curl. Fast forward today I didn't need all that dang on moisture. I AINT GOT NO JERI CURL. . anyway a lesson learned. I moisturize a couple times a week now. I am so tempted to start a challenge. I've been getting such good feedback from you ladies and I hate to lose contact. I'm so happy people has been at least tryng protein out and liking the results. I wonder how many people would join a PROTEIN IS MY FRIEND CHALLENGE. I was thinking to keep it simple. Check in every week and share what product was used and how your hair feel. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR FEEDBACK


 
Yes Patricia, this thread has certainly taken off and I would join it. It would be a great accompaniment to the delicious deep conditioning challenge that I'm in, so I'll definitely join.


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## Aggie (Jan 15, 2009)

daephae said:


> Thanks ladies! I'm loving the Aphogee 2 Minute Keratin Reconstructor! My hair felt stronger and was still soft.


 


sunshinebeautiful said:


> Daephae, I've been following your progress, and your hair looks AMAZING!!!


 
Co-signing with you sunshinebeautiful. Gorgeous hair daephae.


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## Aggie (Jan 15, 2009)

Patricia said:


> [/size]
> 
> 
> ME TOO! THANKS FOR EVERYTHING AND FOR ALL YOUR SUPPORT.


You're quite welcomed and no, thank you...


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## Patricia (Jan 15, 2009)

Aggie said:


> Yes Patricia, this thread has certainly taken off and I would join it. It would be a great accompaniment to the delicious deep conditioning challenge that I'm in, so I'll definitely join.


BIG HUG TO YOU.  ITS A SHAME I DIDN'T KNOW YOU HAD THE DEEP CONDITIONING CHALLENGE GOING.  I'VE REALLY BEEN OUT OF IT. I HAVEN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT NOTHING BUT GETTING MY HAIR BACK ON TRACK.  ON MY WAY TO CHECK OUT YOUR RULES!


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## jreagins (Jan 19, 2009)

*off to join the challenge*


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## MrsQueeny (Jan 19, 2009)

So glad I found this thread. This just confirmed the advice I was given about my daughter. For the last couple of months, I've noticed her hair was getting shorter.  This weekend, she was rocking a puff and when I touched it, the hair was so brittle and started coming off. She has lost at least 4-6 inches. 

On Saturday I put some coconut oil on her hair overnight. Yesterday I washed, then applied MT and let it sit for about 10-15 minutes. I then applied Hairveda's hair mask (can't think of the name) and let her sit under the steamer for 20 minutes.  After rinsing, I detangled, sealed and put her hair in bantu knots. 

I am going to start an album tracking her progress.  Right now, I don't know how often I will do it but I know protein will be a regular part of her regimen from now on. Q


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## RavenMaven (Jan 19, 2009)

I need to get some protein up in here!


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## Patricia (Jan 19, 2009)

***Que*** said:


> So glad I found this thread. This just confirmed the advice I was given about my daughter. For the last couple of months, I've noticed her hair was getting shorter. This weekend, she was rocking a puff and when I touched it, the hair was so brittle and started coming off. She has lost at least 4-6 inches.
> 
> On Saturday I put some coconut oil on her hair overnight. Yesterday I washed, then applied MT and let it sit for about 10-15 minutes. I then applied Hairveda's hair mask (can't think of the name) and let her sit under the steamer for 20 minutes. After rinsing, I detangled, sealed and put her hair in bantu knots.
> 
> I am going to start an album tracking her progress. Right now, I don't know how often I will do it but I know protein will be a regular part of her regimen from now on. Q


Thanks Q.  I have a challenge going on "PROTEIN IS MY FRIEND"  Can you stop in and update us on your daughters progress.  Big hug to you!


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## Patricia (Jan 19, 2009)

waiting to grow said:


> I need to get some protein up in here!


 What kind of protein you going to try?  Your hair breaking and mushy?


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## africa (Jan 20, 2009)

I will stay close to my protein.  My hair stayed soft and felt moisturized after Joico Reconstructor for six days; the best I had before that was Aveda DR for 2-3.  I'm wondering how all my hair didn't break off because I've obviously been protein deficient for years.  I think I'm giving up Aveda DR and sticking with Joico's keratin protein.

I feel so silly, all this time knowing you need to balance with protein/moisture and assuming since my hair is coarse I didn't need it since my hair felt so dry.  I was scared of making it brittle not knowing it would help me stay soft.  

Just throwing out some more love for this great therad


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## Patricia (Jan 20, 2009)

africa said:


> I will stay close to my protein. My hair stayed soft and felt moisturized after Joico Reconstructor for six days; the best I had before that was Aveda DR for 2-3. I'm wondering how all my hair didn't break off because I've obviously been protein deficient for years. I think I'm giving up Aveda DR and sticking with Joico's keratin protein.
> 
> I feel so silly, all this time knowing you need to balance with protein/moisture and assuming since my hair is coarse I didn't need it since my hair felt so dry. I was scared of making it brittle not knowing it would help me stay soft.
> 
> Just throwing out some more love for this great therad


such a sweety


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## Just_Kays_Hair (Jan 20, 2009)

YOU ARE SO RIGHT! My hair CRAVES protein. I think I can do it every week and have no problem. I was afraid to try it because so many ppl talked badly about it. But I think I will join your challenge and do it every week!

And you know what is funny, after my protein treatment i decided to flat iron, my hair was amazingly soft, ends non frizzy, NO SHEDDING, just amazing! Any other time i would have a sink full of shed hairs and frizzy unmanageable ends, and brittle hair. Even if I did it after a DC.


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## Patricia (Jan 20, 2009)

Just_Kays_Hair said:


> YOU ARE SO RIGHT! My hair CRAVES protein. I think I can do it every week and have no problem. I was afraid to try it because so many ppl talked badly about it. But I think I will join your challenge and do it every week!
> 
> And you know what is funny, after my protein treatment i decided to flat iron, my hair was amazingly soft, ends non frizzy, NO SHEDDING, just amazing! Any other time i would have a sink full of shed hairs and frizzy unmanageable ends, and brittle hair. Even if I did it after a DC.


Good to hear.  Let me know if you want to join. What kind of protein do you use?


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## Just_Kays_Hair (Jan 21, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Good to hear.  Let me know if you want to join. What kind of protein do you use?



I actually make my own with mayo eggs, and other stuff lol


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## Patricia (Jan 21, 2009)

Just_Kays_Hair said:


> I actually make my own with mayo eggs, and other stuff lol


 Thats a good thing!


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## Sui Topi (Feb 25, 2009)

I ended up doing my BC early because my relaxed ends were like a bunch of elastic bands left out in the sun too long. I'm not mad because my hair has grown already, but I'm just like damn, all I needed was to find some aphogee and my hair would be like BSL-MBL by now instead of inching it's way to APL.


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## TriniStarr (Feb 25, 2009)

After reading a couple pages of this thread and i may have to step my protein game up. Instead of applying protein once a month, i need to apply it every week.

Thanks ladies


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## Patricia (Feb 25, 2009)

Sui Topi said:


> I ended up doing my BC early because my relaxed ends were like a bunch of elastic bands left out in the sun too long. I'm not mad because my hair has grown already, but I'm just like damn, all I needed was to find some aphogee and my hair would be like BSL-MBL by now instead of inching it's way to APL.


 Join the club. I know without a doubt I would be at my goal length by now.  I cut my hair off cause my colored ends were brittle and tangly.  I wanted to cry.  My hair was on the to much moisture side for so long I'm still recovering.  My hair has thanked me for using protein.  Hey check out the PROTEIN IS MY FRIEND CHALLENGE.  HONEY WE IN THIS TOGETHER!  Growing long hair and strong hair from scratch.  Its really working out!


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## Patricia (Feb 25, 2009)

TriniStarr said:


> After reading a couple pages of this thread and i may have to step my protein game up. Instead of applying protein once a month, i need to apply it every week.
> 
> Thanks ladies


Stop in the PROTEIN IS MY FRIEND CHALLENGE and let us know how the protein works out for you .  I'm sure you will be fine


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## sunbubbles (Feb 25, 2009)

Im glad I found this thread! Ive been stressin about trying to make sure I find a balance between moisture and protein, all the while ignoring how GREAT my hair felt after using Mane-n-Tail Conditioner. My hair has been breaking alot lately,and Ive been soo scared to use anything with protein, because I was thinking it was some kind of protein that was breaking it off....... but who knows maybe not!


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## Barbie83 (Feb 25, 2009)

I have a question: 
I just ordered a bottle of Mega-tek and was planning to use it on my scalp only, a couple times a week, as most LHCFers recommend. But I know the length of my hair could use more protein too (I worry about it breaking off due to me constantly wearing buns and ponytails). 

Would any of you guys use mega-tek as an all over protein treatment, from root to end? And if so, how would u suggest I go about doing it?


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## Barbie83 (Feb 25, 2009)

*subscribing*


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## Patricia (Feb 25, 2009)

Barbie83 said:


> I have a question:
> I just ordered a bottle of Mega-tek and was planning to use it on my scalp only, a couple times a week, as most LHCFers recommend. But I know the length of my hair could use more protein too (I worry about it breaking off due to me constantly wearing buns and ponytails).
> 
> Would any of you guys use mega-tek as an all over protein treatment, from root to end? And if so, how would u suggest I go about doing it?


 Wow I never used megatek but I'm hoping someone will chime in with a answer for you .  Can you copy and paste this in the PROTEIN IS MY FRIEND CHALLENGE  a lot of ladies use megatek and will help.  I can tell you that nexxus emergencee is a good protein treatment


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## Patricia (Feb 25, 2009)

sunbubbles said:


> Im glad I found this thread! Ive been stressin about trying to make sure I find a balance between moisture and protein, all the while ignoring how GREAT my hair felt after using Mane-n-Tail Conditioner. My hair has been breaking alot lately,and Ive been soo scared to use anything with protein, because I was thinking it was some kind of protein that was breaking it off....... but who knows maybe not!


I love mane and tail too! I mix it with a small amout of liquid reconstructor and porosity control.  love it love it love it!


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## Barbie83 (Feb 25, 2009)

thanks patricia!


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## Serenity_Peace (Mar 8, 2009)

Bumping this thang up for inspiration and to help others...

Patricia, you are a goddess!


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## Liege4421 (Mar 8, 2009)

Patricia said:


> Please try to catch it now. I would do the aphogee 2 step every so often then back away from protein again. I didn't realize my hair needed a dose of protein every week. Another thing I didn't mention, If I moisturize everyday my hair becomes weak again. So I only moisturize 2X a week


 
I agree...I wondered what was causing all my breakage!  I use eggs and yogurt (together) as a protein condish in between my aphogee treatments (every 6 weeks or so)...the keratin 2 min reconstructor in the aphogee line is also really good.


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## Patricia (Mar 10, 2009)

Serenity_Peace said:


> Bumping this thang up for inspiration and to help others...
> 
> Patricia, you are a goddess!


 
you are soooooo sweet


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## gradygirl (Mar 11, 2009)

Thank you Patricia for starting this thread. It was very imformative. I just got a bottle of Silk Amino Acid and was not sure what to do with it but I am going to mix a few drops with AOSR conditioner and see how my hair reacts to it. Thanks again for all the information ladies.


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## Patricia (Mar 11, 2009)

gradygirl said:


> Thank you Patricia for starting this thread. It was very imformative. I just got a bottle of Silk Amino Acid and was not sure what to do with it but I am going to mix a few drops with AOSR conditioner and see how my hair reacts to it. Thanks again for all the information ladies.


 You are so welcome gradygirl.  I keep hearing about silk amino acid.  Can you let us know how it works for you?


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## caribeandiva (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm curious. Who here said protein is the devil? Were they serious? *shakes head and sighs* That's why you should always do your research before you believe what people say.


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## Patricia (Mar 12, 2009)

caribeandiva said:


> I'm curious. Who here said protein is the devil? Were they serious? *shakes head and sighs* That's why you should always do your research before you believe what people say.


 Good point.  I'm not alone.  Lots of ladies can relate.


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## gradygirl (Mar 12, 2009)

Patricia said:


> You are so welcome gradygirl. I keep hearing about silk amino acid. Can you let us know how it works for you?


 
I will post back with the results.


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## IDareT'sHair (Apr 29, 2009)

Patricia said:


> After being on the boards about 2 years and obsessing with hair care. Guess what I found out?
> ALL I NEEDED WAS PROTEIN!
> Darn shame. plenty days of not combing cause my hair would break and come out. No detangling in shower cause of excessive hair loss. Cutting hair repeatly cause it was growing back thin. Cutting back to neck length.............. You know that song.YOU JUST DO YOU , I MA DO ME, I MA DO ME, IMA DO ME. That should have been out when I first started my journey.  I made so many mistakes listening to people who swear protein is the enemy! My hair paid the price. I'm good now cause I have been rebuilding my hair every week with a good dose of protein reconstructor of some type in my mane and tail. The results has been strong hair that don't break and its not fragile anymore. I'm not afraid to put in a ponytail or style anymore.
> Anyone else abused their hair by not using protein?
> ...


 
This has got to be one of the most Recent helpful Threads out there for anyone suffering with Hair Issues.  The Entire Thread is so Enlightening especially for those suffering from weak, damaged Hair. Thank you for posting this.  It has truly helped so many people.


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## Patricia (Apr 30, 2009)

IDareT'sHair said:


> This has got to be one of the most Recent helpful Threads out there for anyone suffering with Hair Issues. The Entire Thread is so Enlightening especially for those suffering from weak, damaged Hair. Thank you for posting this. It has truly helped so many people.


 You are so welcome!  That so nice of you to say


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## IDareT'sHair (Apr 30, 2009)

Patricia said:


> You are so welcome! That so nice of you to say


 
This is a "Must Read" for anyone New to this Board, like myself, that was unnecessarily struggling with certain hair issues.  This was a God-Send.  And until we each make "Our Discovery" we will be floundering around aimlessly searching for answers, buying products and asking questions where many of them were adequately addressed in this thread by all the Women that Posted.  I think all the "Newbies" can get something out of going back and reading this.  I know it set me on the right path with my own HHJ.


----------

