# "What if I marry a man that doesn't satisfy me?"



## Supergirl (Aug 20, 2009)

Okay, so this is the common objection to waiting for marriage to be sexually intimate.

Today on Christian radio, I heard one of the best rebuttals for this objection that I have ever heard. The pastor said: "You weren't supposed to have anything to compare it with!" 

So basically, if you waited like you were supposed to then you wouldn't really know what "good sex" and not-so-good sex is. 

By the way, I'm not condemning. If you don't know my story, I was celibate 9 years before marriage, but before that I was no angel.


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (Aug 20, 2009)

It kinda like saying you cant miss what you never had.........erplexed


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## Supergirl (Aug 21, 2009)

^^That's exactly what it is saying.  In fact right after that, he was like "ya know, if you ain't never had chocolate cake before then..."


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## Shimmie (Aug 21, 2009)

BlkHoneyLuv2U said:


> It kinda like saying you cant miss what you never had.........erplexed


 
Off Topic:   What a beautiful precious baby... So peaceful; having a sweet dream.


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## Shimmie (Aug 21, 2009)

Supergirl said:


> Okay, so this is the common objection to waiting for marriage to be sexually intimate.
> 
> Today on Christian radio, I heard one of the best rebuttals for this objection that I have ever heard. The pastor said: "You weren't supposed to have anything to compare it with!"
> 
> ...


 
Whoaaaa, his response is the Truth.   And so hard hitting that it's like a pie hitting them in the face.... 

_"You weren't supposed to have anything to compare it with!"    _

_As the Deacons say... "Welllllllllllllllllllllllll   


_


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## Crackers Phinn (Aug 21, 2009)

Supergirl said:


> So basically, if you waited like you were supposed to then you wouldn't really know what "good sex" and not-so-good sex is.



I realize what forum I'm in and still gotta say, that's really easy for a man to say. 

If sex lasts 2 minutes, who is more likely to be satisfied vs who could have had a V8?   You don't need previous experience to figure out that equation. 

Just sayin


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## Supergirl (Aug 21, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Off Topic:   What a beautiful precious baby... So peaceful; having a sweet dream.



Well, it's not too far off topic.  (considering how the baby got here and all )


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## robot. (Aug 21, 2009)

Even if you have nothing to compare it to, I think you would know what you do and don't like and whether you're satisfied or not.

I don't think it has much to do with comparing, IMO.


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## msa (Aug 21, 2009)

Yeah umm that's probably the worst argument I've heard against it.


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## Jenibo (Aug 21, 2009)

I have faith that God is preparing for me someone i will be compatible with in EVERY aspect.


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## Laela (Aug 21, 2009)

The key word is "satisfaction" ... I remember losing my virginity and had nothing to compare it to. 

Amen and God bless you women who are praying for compatibility in all areas of your future marriages!


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## Shimmie (Aug 21, 2009)

Supergirl said:


> Well, it's not too far off topic.  (considering how the baby got here and all )


 
OOOOOOOoooooo,   

 

I just made the connection....   I'm slow; it's way past midnite.


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## username12 (Aug 21, 2009)

Even if it's the worst case scenario, one can be taught how to be a better lover.  If a man truly loves his wife, he will try his best to satisfy her.


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## runwaydream (Aug 21, 2009)

Good question. i worry about this all the time. 

I understand what the pastor is saying and i agree to a certain extent. but the body knows what feels good and what doesn't. if someone doesn't know what they're doing its going to show. 

what if someone waits til their married and their husband is so awful that they can't bring them to orgasm. does that mean then the woman will never experience one in her whole entire life? how disappointing is that


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## Mamita (Aug 21, 2009)

well if you love your husband you'll be willing to work with him on it if that's the case and vice versa

you don't marry for ever and ever someone you can't even communicate with, what's the point?

If you don't think you can go to him and say "ok we need to work at this" then don't marry him lol simple lol

Man these are such high expectations, every excuse to fornicate beforehand.

If you love each other you have your whole life to practice once married, is sex that important and essential you can't stand the idea of working on it? it's gotta be perfect right away?


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## missann (Aug 21, 2009)

Juanita Bynum mentioned something similar in her "No More Sheets" sermon years ago.  She said you shouldn't know "how you like it" enough to say "do it like this", "flip me like that", etc.  It proves you still have other (mens') spirits inside you.

However, I think a wife can still be less than thrilled with a sexual experience, even if she hasn't been active before.  Just as she can be disappointed with other things.


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## Spongie Bloom (Aug 21, 2009)

*I think people shoudlnt sugar coat or sweep the issue under the rug because it is something important and a real concern not an excuse.I hate that people are made to feel ashamed or guilty whenever they want to discuss sex. Sexual satisfaction is also important in a marriage the rebuttal for me was neither here nor there its like if you had chocolate for the first time in your life after craving it and hearing how good it is and it doesn't do anything for you should you feel bad for being disappointed by the chocolate? or maybe you just dont like milk chocolate and prefer dark chocolate, or chocolate with nuts or a different brand of chocolate I knw its a terrible analogy LOL but you get what I mean.

We want to know that the man we married willbe a great father, will be loyal, wont ever hurt us physically and emotionally  so I think it is a natural progression for one to wonder if they will be sexually satisfied by the man.*


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (Aug 21, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> OOOOOOOoooooo,
> 
> 
> 
> I just made the connection....  I'm slow; it's way past midnite.


 thanks Shimmie, when I see babies smiling in their sleep it make me wonder are they dreaming if so about what? are angels talking to them?...lol. But yep the po lil fella existence is because kids decided to go pass that hand holding stage theres no turning back now. No matter now cause he's here so all I can do is deal with it the best I can. and I will, I am. I dont like it but it wasnt my call. But baby boo is sweet though...to me anyway.....lol


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 21, 2009)

runwaydream said:


> Good question. i worry about this all the time.
> 
> I understand what the pastor is saying and i agree to a certain extent. but the body knows what feels good and what doesn't. if someone doesn't know what they're doing its going to show.
> 
> *what if someone waits til their married and their husband is so awful that they can't bring them to orgasm. does that mean then the woman will never experience one in her whole entire life? how disappointing is that*



was my biggest fear...
however...
I think that personal connections are way more important than orgasms... but then again sex is not a "happy" area for me


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## Aviah (Aug 21, 2009)

I think its like anything else... (BTW I haven't been there so pardon my "naievity")
What if you two don't understand each other? What if he doesn't do any housework? What if he Lords submission over me? I think it takes work and communication alongside prayer to get it right. If you have a man that loves you and loves God, he will want to learn how to please you wouldn't he?


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## Ramya (Aug 21, 2009)

Bad sex is one of the easiest things to fix with a willing partner. That's one thing I don't even worry about. If he's selfish in non intimate settings, he'll be selfish in bed. What man of integrity wouldn't want to satisfy his wife?


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 21, 2009)

Ramya said:


> Bad sex is one of the easiest things to fix with a willing partner. That's one thing I don't even worry about. *If he's selfish in non intimate settings, he'll be selfish in bed. What man of integrity wouldn't want to satisfy his wife? *



so true... i can attest to this from some of my married friends...


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## mswoman (Aug 21, 2009)

Here is the wedding advice my grandmother told me "close my eyes and hang on, he'll know what to do and will show you how to do it!!" I said okay! I think we were both kind of nervous and it didn't happen on the wedding night but maybe two days later. But I did just like my grandma said and it was all good.

From my story, I can look back and laugh, it was about a month before my husband said you can open your eyes now. He showed me how to make love to him and asked me how things felt and if I wanted to try this or that. I will say that it was very nice and I was able to get pleasure later. 

Men are also kind of nervous. My male cousin got married about 3 weeks ago and they were going to LasVegas for their honeymoon. Someone said they are going to sincity. He said, "No, we are married now so it's not a sin." Goes to show where his mind was.... He looked pretty nervous and from what I understand it took *3 days *before he wasn't too nervous to do it.

I agree with the person who says that sex should be discussed in a Christian environment. This allows for us to realize that it's not a dirty word or shameful in the sight of God in a marriage relationship.


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## Supergirl (Aug 21, 2009)

^^good point MW--our society has made it such a nasty, unholy thing that we sometimes carry those associations into marriage and are hesitant to discuss it--although intimacy was created FOR marriage and nothing else

I did hear of this book called _Naked and Unashamed_ or something like that. It's about intimacy for Christians. I would like to read it one day.


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## MrsHdrLe (Aug 21, 2009)

I always beeved that the "excitement" really and truly comes from the expression of love.  I'll be truthful and say that I've done "it" many times in my previous form and what made for the best experience was not the sex, but the love we felt for eachother. When you truly love your husband/mate, then your joy comes from within and that's all that's needed (IMO)


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## hopeful (Aug 21, 2009)

God can work out anything. If your dh loves you and you love him, and you trust God to lead and protect your marriage, you will have nothing to worry about.

Over time sex within a holy union just gets better through the years.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 21, 2009)

Crackers Phinn said:


> I realize what forum I'm in and still gotta say, that's really easy for a man to say.
> 
> If sex lasts 2 minutes, who is more likely to be satisfied vs who could have had a V8?   You don't need previous experience to figure out that equation.
> 
> Just sayin



Crackers Phinn, I know of a girl who married a guy with 1 nut and no ability to have children.  She didn't know this until the wedding night.  He was lucky she loved him enough to stay...but she almost left and had every religious right to.  He lied.  I know of another who's guy had a medically documented micropenis.  He could perform sex...but erplexed...with blanks.  

Most women by marriage these days have had sex so they know what they desire.  But I do agree, we're not supposed to be fornicating.  I just say, that if all the parts are there and functional, you can learn how to have sexual chocolate!  But if he lies....it's gonna be una Lorena Bobbit meng!

:swordfigh


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## Crackers Phinn (Aug 21, 2009)

missann said:


> However, I think a wife can still be less than thrilled with a sexual experience, even if she hasn't been active before.  Just as she can be disappointed with other things.



I agree and I think that the pastor in the OP basically blew off (no pun intended) the feelings of wives who find themselves dissapointed.

Experienced or not, if you're having a compatibility problem in any area of  your marriage you shouldn't be laughed at or dismissed for asking for help or guidance about it.


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## runwaydream (Aug 21, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> was my biggest fear...
> however...
> I think that personal connections are way more important than orgasms... but then again sex is not a "happy" area for me




i do think personal connections are important but i think having a good sex life can bring someone even closer together. 
i hear the more sex ppl have and the better it is, the more affection they will show each other in their everyday lives, and the more considerate they'll be towards each other. 

what if he sucks so much the woman doesn't wanna do it anymore. what if he has ED or he ejaculates after 2 min. and then it'll be a domino effect and they won't be happy w. each other in their everyday lives no matter how much they care for each other. then the marriage will become cold and distant

i know alot of ppl wont agree w. what im saying, or see it my way at all. but its just how i feel.


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## Supergirl (Aug 21, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Crackers Phinn, I know of a girl who married a guy with 1 nut and no ability to have children.  She didn't know this until the wedding night.  He was lucky she loved him enough to stay...but she almost left and had every religious right to.  He lied.  I know of another who's guy had a medically documented micropenis.  He could perform sex...but erplexed...with blanks.
> 
> Most women by marriage these days have had sex so they know what they desire.  But I do agree, we're not supposed to be fornicating.  I just say, that if all the parts are there and functional, you can learn how to have sexual chocolate!  But if he lies....it's gonna be una Lorena Bobbit meng!
> 
> :swordfigh



Well, it goes without saying that brothas need to be up front about any "issues." (and women of course do too)


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## Supergirl (Aug 21, 2009)

Crackers Phinn said:


> I agree and* I think that the pastor in the OP basically blew off (no pun intended) the feelings of wives who find themselves dissapointed.*
> 
> Experienced or not, if you're having a compatibility problem in any area of  your marriage you shouldn't be laughed at or dismissed for asking for help or guidance about it.



Please don't think the pastor in the OP was only talking to women. (sorry that it sounded that way, he meant everyone)


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## Mamita (Aug 21, 2009)

Ok not only did he mean everyone but he also meant unmarried people not  married yet. If you're already married with that problem the solutions are very different



runwaydream said:


> i do think personal connections are important but i think having a good sex life can bring someone even closer together.
> i hear the more sex ppl have and the better it is, the more affection they will show each other in their everyday lives, and the more considerate they'll be towards each other.
> 
> what if he sucks so much the woman doesn't wanna do it anymore. what if he has ED or he ejaculates after 2 min. and then it'll be a domino effect and they won't be happy w. each other in their everyday lives no matter how much they care for each other. then the marriage will become cold and distant
> ...



Well at least you already know what's coming lol 

but as i read your reply i couldn't help but think, all that is very workable, 2 minutes? well the more he does it the longer it'll last... don't know what ED is

and it's so bad she doesn't want to do it anymore? what kind of attitude is that? man im sorry but my fiance who i am waiting at least 5 years to marry (god willing it's next year and it's been 4 already) whom i love more than anything we haven't done anything we have talked about it and he's been celibate for like 7 years, i know the first time is gonna stink REAL BAD you think that's gonna stop me? 

If the woman was really bad and the husband was to say 'it was so bad i don't want to do it anymore" and shuts her out and doesn't even wanna try again you'd have most of LHCF ladies saying he's a jerk and shouldn't be like that. 

There are other ways to please a woman, and if you can't tell your husband if he's clueless what ways those are your marriage has way more than sexual problems

Usually (notice the USUALLY) when you don't jump head first in a marriage and get to know and love for who that man really is and will become when he has grey hair and can't get it up anymore and you won't care cause it's HIM lol and be 100% comfortable with him BEFOREHAND you have no problem talking and trying everything to please each other


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## Mamita (Aug 21, 2009)

and why marry the guy?

if that happens, the 2 minute / impotent thing, and instead of thinking "oh my that must be hard for him, he must be feeling really bad, and it doesn't matter we'll work through this" you think "it was so bad i don't wanna do it anymore" then you're not ready to be married.

What if he doesn't satisfy me now that i think about it is extremely selfish, and women who think that way need to wait or go to premarital counseling or find another man, cause when you've found that man that loves you and is willing to be the head of your household and treat you like Jesus Christ treats his church, love making is far from your daydreams, not even close.

and in a wordly way, if you wonder that before you get married, you're not ready either, cause you shouldn't be thinking in those terms anymore, it's not me it's WE and if you can even think you wouldn't want to work it out with him or he wouldn't want to work it out with you then you should let him go


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## Spongie Bloom (Aug 21, 2009)

*this thread is proof that people (christians) cannot openly talk about sex without being shot down or made to feel guilty or ashamed for the feelings they have.*


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## aribell (Aug 21, 2009)

runwaydream said:


> what if someone waits til their married and their husband is *so awful that they can't bring them to orgasm.* does that mean then the woman will never experience one in her whole entire life? how disappointing is that


 
I think it's on that fine point that a having prior experience would be most likely to trip someone up, since the overall experience could still be nice without it.  But if someone's been there before, well, the cat's out of the bag now, and there will be certain expectations.  Whereas, if that person didn't have that particular expectation, they really wouldn't know what they were missing.

There was this Oprah show once where a therapist mentioned an 80--year old woman, married for decades, who had only recently experienced that...and boy was she mad at her husband once she did! 



Spongie Bloom said:


> *We want to know that the man we married willbe a great father, will be loyal, wont ever hurt us physically and emotionally so I think it is a natural progression for one to wonder if they will be sexually satisfied by the man.*


 


Spongie Bloom said:


> *this thread is proof that people (christians) cannot openly talk about sex without being shot down or made to feel guilty or ashamed for the feelings they have.*


 
Nah...I think it's very natural to wonder about it, but it's just not something that you can get an answer to beforehand.  From a Christian perspective, fornication isn't permissable, and marriage is forever.  So that means we have to start thinking about things differently.  And putting too much energy into worrying, "How can I be sure I'll be satisfied?" will likely only lead a person to justify having sex beforehand or to place such an emphasis on it being "good" right away that there will be undue disappointment.

If there does end up being a problem (which is unlikely), there are ways of dealing with it once we get there.  But for now, there's really no use putting too much thought into it since there's nothing we can do about it.

ETA:  I do think, though, that certain things can/should be discussed.  I've had some female friends who, when we would talk about sex, I thought "Well, geez, I feel sorry for your (future) husband."  They were virgins but already talked as if physical intimacy would be a chore and/or was gross.  Also, the sister of a former roomate still felt tremendously guilty after having sex with her husband because she was convinced it was something shameful, and she couldn't get over it.  So, perhaps couples should talk about what sex means to them personally, how they see themselves working through potential issues, etc.


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## mswoman (Aug 21, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> ETA: I do think, though, that certain things can/should be discussed. I've had some female friends who, when we would talk about sex, I thought "Well, geez, I feel sorry for your (future) husband." They were virgins but already talked as if physical intimacy would be a chore and/or was gross. Also, the sister of a former roomate still felt tremendously guilty after having sex with her husband because she was convinced it was something shameful, and she couldn't get over it. So, perhaps couples should talk about what sex means to them personally, how they see themselves working through potential issues, etc.


 

I agree that some men or women can get talked out of the pleasure of sex. Many men are taught to get as much as you can before getting married so they can get in the practice. Unfortunately many boys play into this and get lost in lust rather than love. 

I like the idea of intimacy parties for young women whom are getting married in the church. This allows for married christian woman to share their experiences in the bedroom so they can know what to expect.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 21, 2009)

Mamita said:


> What if he doesn't satisfy me now that i think about it is extremely selfish, and women who think that way need to wait or go to premarital counseling or find another man, cause when you've found that man that loves you and is willing to be the head of your household and treat you like Jesus Christ treats his church, love making is far from your daydreams, not even close.



I'm not sure I agree because unless G-d gave man the extreme desire for sex, a man wouldn't marry.  And, of course, people (not just marrieds) have sex because they are programmed to in G-d's design.  It's the control through marriage that is desirable.  Sex is pretty important.  If you marry a man and he cannot have sex, you have a religious right to divorce him.  That sux for him...but if your goal is a satisfying sex life, children, grandchildren etc.  Sex is very important.  It's not everything...but it is very important.


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## Mamita (Aug 21, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I'm not sure I agree because unless G-d gave man the extreme desire for sex, a man wouldn't marry.  And, of course, people (not just marrieds) have sex because they are programmed to in G-d's design.  It's the control through marriage that is desirable.  Sex is pretty important.  If you marry a man and he cannot have sex, you have a religious right to divorce him.  That sux for him...but if your goal is a satisfying sex life, children, grandchildren etc.  Sex is very important.  It's not everything...but it is very important.



oh nono i wasnt saying it wasnt important nono

but we're talking of women before marriage here, worrying about an aspect of marriage that should never be the first concern

or even second...

and we disagree on the divorce thing, there is no religious grounds or natural or whatever. 

i think about the sex we'll have but most the time i think of cooking for him, having a house with him, kids etc... WORRYING about sexual PLEASURE shouldnt be on the list. 
If he can't have sex you can't stick with him and try to find a solution? make him go down, make him use toys, make him cum in a cup freeze it and use it if you wanna have kids? some get pregnant as virgins if he pfftt next to the danger spot, it's not hard to get pregnant
or better yet PRAY ABOUT IT TOGETHER
why divorce?
why not stick with the man you vowed to God you'd stick with through thick and thin IF u went ahead and married the guy?


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## Prudent1 (Aug 21, 2009)

Ok let me start out by saying I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here. There is no reason why a group of Christian women cannot discuss sex. Sex was/ is God's idea. Who should be discussing sex Christians or those with a wordly mindset? Who was it made for? Adam and Eve weren't walking the dog when suddenly the idea hit him..."Hey hon I've got this part here what do you say I try to see if it fits here?" Sex outside of marriage is against the plan of God. We (self included) can get as creative as we want to with why it's ok but in the end one must ask is God telling me the truth or is he trying to keep something from me? That question is the very question that Eve asked and we all know how that situation turned out.  When we make the choice to have sex with someone we merge with them in a spiritual sense. It is not just physical. We can pick up good things, we can pick up some not so good things.  Once the relationship is over it is not so easy to move on. All you have to do is watch court TV or check out some of the blogs here to know it's not easy to reign in those emotions. Sometimes we don't even realize the baggage we've picked up until we hurt the one we're in relationship w/now. Fornication = selfishness on the part of both parties b/c when you get down to the nitty gritty we're worried about how good it was for 'me' primarily. I know that's not popular but sometimes the truth is not. Successful marriages cannot be about 'me'. On the flip side, if I concentrate on him and he is doing the same where I'm concerned, now we are being selfless and both happy. Even if we don't get it 100% right it counts in love that a personis truly trying. Won't God honor that? Can't he supernaturally intervene to get the mojo going if he knows I'm trying to honor him and this dude? Do we really think that God needs our help? A God who formed everything that is but somehow he didn't realize we would want to be satisfied sexually especially those who waited for marriage. That's the reward he would give? Seems out of character for him. For me, it all comes down to trust. There were certain things I was trusting God for but there were some I was not.  The bible says trust him w/all of my heart and to not rely on what seems logical to me. This was a big deal for me. A sista' sent up a lot of prayers behind the thought of marrying someone and being unsatisfied sexually. God had to remind me who made the human body. Who gave humans emotions? Who is it that gives us the very desires we have in our hearts? I have to exercise my faith in this area too. Not easy with all of the messages we receive that say we are missing out on all of this good stuff (which is still the same thing satan told Eve). Most of the people I know who get divorced or split up do not list sexual disatisfaction as the main cause- most do not .     

*i think having a good sex life can bring someone even closer together. *
It can but are we talking about your good or God's good? See as I grow in the Lord my ideas change and line up with his ideas.
*i hear the more sex ppl have and the better it is, the more affection they will show each other in their everyday lives, and the more considerate they'll be towards each other. *

There are always exceptions to the rule but that is not always true. The more love grows in a commited Godly marriage the more these things happen. If I understand your reasoning correctlt then prostitutes and the very doggiest (is that a word?) of men would be so loving and affectionate b/c they are certainly getting it on frequently.

*what if he sucks so much the woman doesn't wanna do it anymore. what if he has ED or he ejaculates after 2 min. and then it'll be a domino effect and they won't be happy w. each other in their everyday lives no matter how much they care for each other. then the marriage will become cold and distant*

What if it is us who suck? We brought our A game and he just wasn't satisfied b/c we weren't tight enough, lubricated enough, smelled different than his last chick or whatever? Not to be crass but that's when more prayer would be needed.  

*i know alot of ppl wont agree w. what im saying, or see it my way at all. but its just how i feel.[/quote]*

There is nothing wrong with what you feel. A lot of ppl feel the same way but just aren't saying anything. If you don't ask questions how are you going to get answers? Younger women should be able to ask older women questions and get answers even if it's not what they wanted to hear. I used to feel the same way you feel. It comes down to trust and remembering how big God is and how there is nothing new to him and nothing too hard for him especially not sex. Thank you for posting. I hope I did not come off as unable to understand or being unrealistic. BTW Creflo Dollar ministries has 2 wonderful series out right now on fornication. Playing with Fire -the dangers of sexual sin and Victory over Lust.
http://store.creflodollarministries.org/


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## Supergirl (Aug 21, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I'm not sure I agree because unless G-d gave man the extreme desire for sex, a man wouldn't marry.  And, of course, people (not just marrieds) have sex because they are programmed to in G-d's design.  It's the control through marriage that is desirable.  Sex is pretty important.  *If you marry a man and he cannot have sex, you have a religious right to divorce him.*  That sux for him...but if your goal is a satisfying sex life, children, grandchildren etc.  Sex is very important.  It's not everything...but it is very important.



I have never heard that in my life! Scripture please?

Also the part about a man not marrying unless he has a desire for sex--that makes it sound like sex is the prime reason a man marries and I KNOW with ZERO doubts that my husband didn't marry me for sex.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 21, 2009)

Mamita said:


> oh nono i wasnt saying it wasnt important nono
> 
> *but we're talking of women before marriage here, worrying about an aspect of marriage that should never be the first concern
> 
> ...



There's a scripture somewhere that says a man should please his wife and not hold back the sex, essentially.  Anybody have that one?    I agree sex is not number one...but people marry to have children and start families...how will that happen without sex???  For wise people, they will want to know if this person has emotional issues (past sexual abuse or rape or hangups) or physical impediments because that is something you'd want to know before entering a marriage.  And what young girl has never fantasized about romance?  It's natural.  If someone withholds such information, including past sexual history (virgin or not), that is certainly grounds for an annullment because they lied, not entering a valid marriage, causing you to live a lie, before G-d and man.  One cannot lie about such things or it's invalid because they meant to use trickery.  That's what I'm referencing.  

And women should be concerned about sexual pleasure, learning how to give it, learning how to receive it for a happy married life.  We cannot enter into a marriage without knowledge...but I'm not saying test out the waters first...just get educated about it.  There's not enough cooking and cleaning in the world for me to care more about it than sex.  Now, if I enter into a valid marriage and hubbie gets injured and can no longer perform, I wouldn't divorce him because I'd love him.  But I wouldn't enter into it knowing he had problems.  That's just asking for trouble down the road.


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## Spin (Aug 21, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> There's a scripture somewhere that says a man should please his wife and not hold back the sex, essentially.  Anybody have that one?    I agree sex is not number one...but people marry to have children and start families...how will that happen without sex???  For wise people, they will want to know if this person has emotional issues (past sexual abuse or rape or hangups) or physical impediments because that is something you'd want to know before entering a marriage.  And what young girl has never fantasized about romance?  It's natural.  If someone withholds such information, including past sexual history (virgin or not), that is certainly grounds for an annullment because they lied, not entering a valid marriage, causing you to live a lie, before G-d and man.  One cannot lie about such things or it's invalid because they meant to use trickery.  That's what I'm referencing.
> 
> And women should be concerned about sexual pleasure, learning how to give it, learning how to receive it for a happy married life.  We cannot enter into a marriage without knowledge...but I'm not saying test out the waters first...just get educated about it.  There's not enough cooking and cleaning in the world for me to care more about it than sex.  Now, if I enter into a valid marriage and hubbie gets injured and can no longer perform, I wouldn't divorce him because I'd love him.  But I wouldn't enter into it knowing he had problems.  That's just asking for trouble down the road.



I believe the scripture is 1 Corinthians 7:3.....


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## DMJ's Mom (Aug 21, 2009)

The pastor has a good point but in the end you can always lead and guide as to what you like or at least try while you figure out what you like


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## Supergirl (Aug 21, 2009)

Prudent1 said:


> Ok let me start out by saying I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here. There is no reason why a group of Christian women cannot discuss sex. Sex was/ is God's idea. Who should be discussing sex Christians or those with a wordly mindset? Who was it made for? Adam and Eve weren't walking the dog when suddenly the idea hit him..."Hey hon I've got this part here what do you say I try to see if it fits here?" Sex outside of marriage is against the plan of God. We (self included) can get as creative as we want to with why it's ok but in the end one must ask is God telling me the truth or is he trying to keep something from me? That question is the very question that Eve asked and we all know how that situation turned out.  When we make the choice to have sex with someone we merge with them in a spiritual sense. It is not just physical. We can pick up good things, we can pick up some not so good things.  Once the relationship is over it is not so easy to move on. All you have to do is watch court TV or check out some of the blogs here to know it's not easy to reign in those emotions. Sometimes we don't even realize the baggage we've picked up until we hurt the one we're in relationship w/now. Fornication = selfishness on the part of both parties b/c when you get down to the nitty gritty we're worried about how good it was for 'me' primarily. I know that's not popular but sometimes the truth is not. Successful marriages cannot be about 'me'. On the flip side, if I concentrate on him and he is doing the same where I'm concerned, now we are being selfless and both happy. Even if we don't get it 100% right it counts in love that a personis truly trying. Won't God honor that? Can't he supernaturally intervene to get the mojo going if he knows I'm trying to honor him and this dude? Do we really think that God needs our help? A God who formed everything that is but somehow he didn't realize we would want to be satisfied sexually especially those who waited for marriage. That's the reward he would give? Seems out of character for him. For me, it all comes down to trust. There were certain things I was trusting God for but there were some I was not.  The bible says trust him w/all of my heart and to not rely on what seems logical to me. This was a big deal for me. A sista' sent up a lot of prayers behind the thought of marrying someone and being unsatisfied sexually. God had to remind me who made the human body. Who gave humans emotions? Who is it that gives us the very desires we have in our hearts? I have to exercise my faith in this area too. Not easy with all of the messages we receive that say we are missing out on all of this good stuff (which is still the same thing satan told Eve). Most of the people I know who get divorced or split up do not list sexual disatisfaction as the main cause- most do not .
> 
> *i think having a good sex life can bring someone even closer together. *
> It can but are we talking about your good or God's good? See as I grow in the Lord my ideas change and line up with his ideas.
> ...



I appreciate ALL your wisdom--that was great.


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## honeyflaava (Aug 22, 2009)

Prudent1 said:


> Ok let me start out by saying I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here. There is no reason why a group of Christian women cannot discuss sex. Sex was/ is God's idea. Who should be discussing sex Christians or those with a wordly mindset? Who was it made for? Adam and Eve weren't walking the dog when suddenly the idea hit him..."Hey hon I've got this part here what do you say I try to see if it fits here?" Sex outside of marriage is against the plan of God. We (self included) can get as creative as we want to with why it's ok but in the end one must ask is God telling me the truth or is he trying to keep something from me? That question is the very question that Eve asked and we all know how that situation turned out.  When we make the choice to have sex with someone we merge with them in a spiritual sense. It is not just physical. We can pick up good things, we can pick up some not so good things.  Once the relationship is over it is not so easy to move on. All you have to do is watch court TV or check out some of the blogs here to know it's not easy to reign in those emotions. Sometimes we don't even realize the baggage we've picked up until we hurt the one we're in relationship w/now. Fornication = selfishness on the part of both parties b/c when you get down to the nitty gritty we're worried about how good it was for 'me' primarily. I know that's not popular but sometimes the truth is not. Successful marriages cannot be about 'me'. On the flip side, if I concentrate on him and he is doing the same where I'm concerned, now we are being selfless and both happy. Even if we don't get it 100% right it counts in love that a personis truly trying. Won't God honor that? Can't he supernaturally intervene to get the mojo going if he knows I'm trying to honor him and this dude? Do we really think that God needs our help? A God who formed everything that is but somehow he didn't realize we would want to be satisfied sexually especially those who waited for marriage. That's the reward he would give? Seems out of character for him. For me, it all comes down to trust. There were certain things I was trusting God for but there were some I was not.  The bible says trust him w/all of my heart and to not rely on what seems logical to me. This was a big deal for me. A sista' sent up a lot of prayers behind the thought of marrying someone and being unsatisfied sexually. God had to remind me who made the human body. Who gave humans emotions? Who is it that gives us the very desires we have in our hearts? I have to exercise my faith in this area too. Not easy with all of the messages we receive that say we are missing out on all of this good stuff (which is still the same thing satan told Eve). Most of the people I know who get divorced or split up do not list sexual disatisfaction as the main cause- most do not .
> 
> *i think having a good sex life can bring someone even closer together. *
> It can but are we talking about your good or God's good? See as I grow in the Lord my ideas change and line up with his ideas.
> ...




Bless you for this post Prudent1!! ITA with every thing that wrote


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## Mamita (Aug 22, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> There's a scripture somewhere that says a man should please his wife and not hold back the sex, essentially.  Anybody have that one? I agree, but his wife shouldn't either just because it's not good that time
> I agree sex is not number one...but people marry to have children and start families...how will that happen without sex??? told ya freeze it use it for later, ill intentioned people have done it, women who want kids can certainly do it
> For wise people, they will want to know if this person has emotional issues (past sexual abuse or rape or hangups) or physical impediments because that is something you'd want to know before entering a marriage.  And what young girl has never fantasized about romance?  It's natural. yeah that's why you usually know the person some time before you marry him lool and avoid marrying someone that's secretive about his past
> If someone withholds such information, including past sexual history (virgin or not), that is certainly grounds for an annulment because they lied, not entering a valid marriage, causing you to live a lie, before G-d and man.  One cannot lie about such things or it's invalid because they meant to use trickery.  That's what I'm referencing.  if you could reference it with scriptures cause lie is certainly not a ground for annulment or divorce, unless your catholic but then everything is a different story lol you can only divorce someone if you realise afterwards that it's incest cause you're close family, but other than that...
> ...



And i agre with prudent1 when i said pray about it together, you can certainly believe God can change it, if sex with your husband is the desire of your heart and you live right then you'll get it, why LIMIT HIM?? he raised the dead, he can certainly raise a flesh literally lol

If our daughters or imaginary daughters came to us old enough to get married suitor or not and asked that, wouldn't we all tell her to wait and not marry? aside from giving her advice, our story, how God can help if he's included in that marriage ect... isn't that what it all comes down to? if you ask that, baby i think you should wait to get married...

I mean young or old women need to understand you only enter in marriage with the utmost care, cause there ain't no coming back you marry him you stick with him, so you better know him really well and make sure he's the one you wanna hang around everyday for eternity and yeah the time spent having sex is tiiiiiiiiny compared to the the rest of the time you spec with your husband loool


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## Spongie Bloom (Aug 22, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> ETA: I do think, though, that certain things can/should be discussed. I've had some female friends who, when we would talk about sex, I thought "Well, geez, I feel sorry for your (future) husband." They were virgins but already talked as if physical intimacy would be a chore and/or was gross. Also, the sister of a former roomate still felt tremendously guilty after having sex with her husband because she was convinced it was something shameful, and she couldn't get over it. So, perhaps couples should talk about what sex means to them personally, how they see themselves working through potential issues, etc.


 
*That is what I was getting at I think its only natural to wonder about that aspect of life but many pple are conditioned to believe that sex is wrong or even ungodly  they cant talk about it without feeling ashamed and other negative feelings.*


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## ladyofvirtue (Aug 22, 2009)

*If he really loves you, he will do all that he can to satisfy you.*

*You might have to tell him what you like.*

*Also, if you two are truly Christians, The HOLY SPIRIT will reside within you both.  And HE  w i l l  be sure that your spiritual, emotional, and physical union will be spectacular.  Do not listen to the world regarding marital sex being boring and monotonous (sp)?It's just not true.*

*I've been married before and it was to an unsaved man. (I know I shouldn't have, but, that's another story).  It was somewhat pleasurable with him, but, with my current DH, who is truly a man of GOD, afterwards, we are just about always left speechless! *

*Remember, whatever GOD created is good.  But, we can't take something holy, profane it and expect HIM to bless that activity.*

*How refreshing it is to know that when a sanctified husband and wife come "together", The LORD is there, blessing the union with HIS atomic power.*

*If you trust HIM with your eternal security, trust HIM to bring the man that HE wants to take you as his wife.*

*Stay faithful!*


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## Ladybelle (Aug 22, 2009)

Okay, I have a question for those who can provide a Christian response. 

*What if you are married to a selfish Godly man?* One would think these two things couldn't co-exist, but they can & do. No Christian is perfect and all have their hang-ups to get over. What about the man who loves the Lord, who reveres the Lord  -and  you *know* he does. *But the one area he has a deficit in is in sexually gratifying his wife?* He does everything else on the list though, he helps with the kids, he takes care of her financially, he leads well, and everything else. BUT, when it comes to the bedroom he receives well but doesn't give so well? What's the Christian way to deal with that? For lack of better words- the sex is good, but there is no passion?   *He loves receiving oral but doesn't return the favor, he never takes the time to truly make love to his wife? You know - cherish her body from head to toe, that kind of thing?  *It seems he knows the word of God on every issue, except sex. After the woman has done the Godly thing and pleased her husband in every way with still no return on her seed, what does she do? She's talked to him about it and argued with him about, what is her recourse--- to just Keep praying?  How long is she expected to wait for him to sex her the way God would have intended? 

I think this is the question OP was trying to convey- if I'm understanding correctly.* What's the answer to that*? 

I think we need to stop pretending. Bad sex can happen to anyone- especially in a Christian Marriage because Satan will use any avenue he can to tear a family apart. This issue is often skirted around and neglected in Christian circles (along with some others) which may explain why the divorce rate amongst Christians is just as high as it is amongst non-believers. 

Sooner or later, even a virgin bride will know she's missing something if the sex isn't up to par. While he's snoring, she'll be wondering why she isn't satisfied, why her body is still longing for that "release" she just can't put her finger on. 

I'd like to know how would one really deal with that in a Godly way? 

sex may not be the priority, but it's definitely VERY relavant to marriage or else God wouldn't have ordained it just for marriage.


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## Shimmie (Aug 22, 2009)

asuperwoman said:


> Okay, I have a question for those who can provide a Christian response.
> 
> *What if you are married to a selfish Godly man?* One would think these two things couldn't co-exist, but they can & do. No Christian is perfect and all have their hang-ups to get over. What about the man who loves the Lord, who reveres the Lord -and you *know* he does. *But the one area he has a deficit in is in sexually gratifying his wife?* He does everything else on the list though, he helps with the kids, he takes care of her financially, he leads well, and everything else. BUT, when it comes to the bedroom he receives well but doesn't give so well?
> 
> ...


 
Some readers may take the bolded and 'run' with it... 

However, this is an excellent issue to consider and to address and I'm glad you asked.   

As a Christian, I would fully discuss these issues with him before the wedding.  I'm serious.  Sex is just as vital to marriage as where we are planning to live, buying/selling a house (or whose house) organizing our finances, planning our insurance policies, beneficiaries, legal matters, household chores, and everything else a couple shares.  

Our sex life as man and wife should be the top of our discussion as much as our other plans.   Everything else we plan for life, as a couple, we still plan for our lives as a single.   Sex is the only 'change' outside of those other aspects of life.   Therefore this 'change' in our lives needs to be throughly communicated (verbally).  After the wedding, we will use the Honeymoon to 'our' full advantage.  

Now there are many who may use this 'possibility' to justify 'testing' the waters 'before' marriage, but it needs to be considered that sex 'before' marriage does not guarantee good or bad sex afterwards.   

Open your hearts and talk about this and don't settle for chit chat or hidden jokes or underlying messages.  TALK!  Open your hearts and talk.  

There was an older couple in our Church who were the prime examples of a successful marriage.  Their secret was open communication even about sex.  When God says that the 'two shall become One', sex places this into perspective.  When a man 'enters' into a woman, they literally become 'One'.  They are literrally 'connected' within one another as God ordained it. 

Right there, lying in full connection with one another, it goes beyond 'mating' to create another life.   This is where the husband and wife can truly_ inti ' mate _their closeness with one another.   He doesn't have to rush the moment like train speeding through a tunnel...   Lord, no...    He can then allow his intimate connection within her, to truly 'know' her inside and out.   Just by lying there, being 'still' in full intimacy, He can 'listen' to her presence and become familiar and attuned to her needs and fulfillment.   

They're not animals in a field, they are man and woman, man and wife, male and female, created and designed by God to 'know' each other, from breath to life.

Some men just have to be taught.  As women, we have a 'gift' to love our men into getting them to do what we need and want them to do.     We do...Yes we do.   

We do...  

We don't have to be afraid to communicate, physically and verbally with our husbands.  In most cases they want what we want; but they just don't know how or if it's okay with 'us'.   :Rose:


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## Ladybelle (Aug 22, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Some readers may take the bolded and 'run' with it...
> 
> However, this is an excellent issue to consider and to address and I'm glad you asked.
> 
> ...


 
 sorry about the bolded you were referencing earlier, I promise- I did not mean it like that at all!! I agree - communication is key. But, in instances where a woman has never had sex, how can she really effectively communicate what she wants in that area?  I agree there's no need to go testing the waters to find out, but how can she describe Paris if she's never been there? 

Then, On another note- I've heard women talk of never experiencing the big "O" with their own husbands!?! Doesn't this defeat the point of marriage? 

Men having to be taught -  I agree. But, how do you teach intimacy? Positions and such can be taught, but isn't intimacy something that has to come from within? I dunno... it baffles me. 

I have a friend in Christ whom I love dearly who is suffering from this very issue which is why I asked. I don't know what to tell her. I have talked her out of adultery on more than one occassion, she's desperate for what her dh is not giving her. She thinks another man may fill that need. She wasn't a virgin before marriage- maybe that's where the problem is. She knows how good it can be.... 


It just seems like a very diffiicult issue to have to face and where do you seek answers? Maybe this is one of those things where the only source is God. There are some needs only HE can fill.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 22, 2009)

Supergirl said:


> I have never heard that in my life! Scripture please?
> 
> Also the part about a man not marrying unless he has a desire for sex--that makes it sound like sex is the prime reason a man marries and I KNOW with ZERO doubts that my husband didn't marry me for sex.



I'll have to find the proper sources but it's something decided upon by the Church.  I am not protestant.  But please understand, entering into a marriage requires honesty.  Note, my examples involved people who lied about their conditions and married a woman anyway, knowing they were fraudulent.  This is what makes it grounds for annulment...meaning that it was not a valid marriage in the first place.  The divorce would serve civilly in court and the annulment is what is binding religiously.   I'll get those sources.  Valid marriages that split do not get annulments in most cases.


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## Shimmie (Aug 22, 2009)

asuperwoman said:


> sorry about the bolded you were referencing earlier, I promise- I did not mean it like that at all!! I agree - communication is key. But, in instances where a woman has never had sex, how can she really effectively communicate what she wants in that area? I agree there's no need to go testing the waters to find out, but how can she describe Paris if she's never been there?
> 
> Then, On another note- I've heard women talk of never experiencing the big "O" with their own husbands!?! Doesn't this defeat the point of marriage?
> 
> ...


I was just teasing with the 'bolded'... 

Women (nor men) have to suffer sexually in marriage.   I truly believe this. 

There can be so many factors which attribute to sexual disappointments.  I'm not a 'sexologist', but I am a woman.  And there are things that no one else knows about me except me and God and then my husband.  

One of the biggest sins in Marriage is not Adultery.  

No... it's not.  

It's lying to our husbands by lying in bed before, during and after sex and pretending, it's okay when it is not okay.   As women, 'we' have done this and out of fear and/or lack of knowledge.  We don't want to create an atmosphere of contention when deep inside, we are fullly 'contended' to tears.  He had 'his' and left me 'dry'.   I've been there and don't ever intend to go back.   It's a Valley of Misery and as a woman unsatisfied, instead of confronting your husband, you'll resort to fantasy with someone else who is paying attention to you.   

Like I said, I've been there.  My ex was not satisfying me, and there were other men who wanted to.  Not that I told them, but men know when a woman is 'thinking' about him, 'that way'.   Their interest and attention made it easier for me, than to talk to my husband.  I felt important and special.   As much as I wanted to 'yield' to their attention, I still wanted my husband more and settled into the Valley of Misery. 

One day, we finally talked.  I was stone cold in bed one night, with the attitude of 'whatever' and he asked me, "What's wrong?"   He finally 'knew' that I wasn't having the same fun he was having.  We talked and he began to slow down and it was finally better.   Much, much better and I will always cherish him for that. 

So it's from my personal experience, that I stand upon the lack or actually the _*'fear'*_ of communication, both physical and verbal as the problem.  Actually emotional, for this is something that is truly affecting one's emotions, their self esteem and even their desire to pursue the issue.  

I was raised as a 'good girl'.  He was my 'first'; I was only 16, knew nothing about sex; and I settled for what I thought was supposed to be it. He always knew how to arouse me, but it never went anywhere afterwards.  In the begining I didn't really notice because I was 'so in love' and loved being close to him in bed at night.  It felt safe and he always held me until I went to sleep.  

He always slept close to me and it was rare that his arms or legs were not embraced around me in some way or form.   We were always close, so I didn't think I was 'missing' anything.   After our first baby was born, something changed.  I was aware that I wanted more.  It's strange how that happened that way and then.  I never figured that out. 

Sex is such an intimate and private part of ourselves that we don't shed the veils we hide behind so freely.   I truly believe that to be able to communicate and to give and receive a healthy and satisfying sexual relationship that we have to come out, literally crack the shells we hide behind and destroy them.  

What shells are people hiding behind.  Shells cannot be penetrated, they have hard surfaces and sharp edges.  Shells are actually shields and weapons (they were used for such in remote or Island lands).  

Your friend and her husband 'have' to talk; have true intimate talks about their feelings in their entirety, not just sexually.  And the shells they are hiding behind must be removed and destroyed so that they cannot retreat to them ever again.  

I'll be honest, if I were married _*'again'*_ to a man who needed some perfomance training, I'd just stop him in the 'act' and tell him, 'Baby, I'm not letting you go any further until we get this right."   Period.  That would get his attention and have him thinking... "Wow, she's serious."  

Stopping him before he has a chance to finish, will truly get his attention.  Then lovingly (no tears... save them for the biggie), but lovingly share with him that you are not satisfied and you want to fix it so that you 'BOTH' can enjoy this beautiful gift of Marriage together.   

It's like, "Hey, ummmm Honey, you're not here by yourself. There's a body underneath of you... 'Mine' and ummmm, I'm just not feeling it.'   Can 'we' do this together or are you out there in the jungle bushes all by yourself?  Baby, let's fix this.  I'm here too.  Let's fix this together.  You are hurting me and I know that you love me and may not realize, I have unreleased feelings just like you."  Smack him on his butt, to get up off of you, pull up the sheets, and talk about it.  Get his attention!  In love, just get his attention and talk about it.   

For the most part, men are 'straight runners'.  They've been wired that way.  Which is why God had to remind them in His word to treat us tenderly.  

Your a good friend.  Pray with your friend.  Ask her what is she afraid of that she cannot talk to him?  She's not a robot and neither is he.   If he's being mean to her, then therapy is needed.  A good Christian therapist who may be able to help them destroy the barriers preventing them from true communication.   They have to talk to save their marriage. 

I'm praying for them.  Talking is hard, but it can be overcome.  God can bring their hearts together in this.  It's God will.  Philipians 2:1-5 is a wonderful scripture to confirm this.  

_1 *If there be therefore any consolution in Christ*, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 
_
_3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 

_Isn't God's word beautiful?   In the very beginning of this scripture, He makes it clear that it cannot be challenged.   For if it be in Christ, then so it is.  

It is therefore in Christ that a man and wife be truly 'One', spirit, soul, and body.   The *same 'Love'*  (come on now... the 'same love') being of one accord, of one mind.  

It's theirs... "Same Love" :Rose:


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Aug 22, 2009)

I'm sorry, I cannot now find the post to reply to but someone asked me about my statement that if a man didn't have a strong desire for sex, he wouldn't marry.  This comes from Jewish teaching regarding the yetzer tova and yetzer hara...good side and the bad side/desires, basically, that war within every man.  If the command is to be fruitful and multiply, that wouldn't be possible unless people had a desire for sex.  Marriage is the proper vehicle through which to have sex...committment to spouse and children.  Desire for sex is the driving force because without it, no one will want to get married and perform it.  Imagine sex with no feeling whatsoever, no pleasure, like watching paint dry.  G-d was wise in His design to give us hormones to desire each other and made sex so pleasurable, it's one of the reasons we are attracted to each other.  Every human being is sexual in nature...it's natural and it's G-d's design.



Mamita said:


> And i agree with prudent1 when i said pray about it together, you can certainly believe God can change it, if sex with your husband is the desire of your heart and you live right then you'll get it, *why LIMIT HIM?*? he raised the dead, he can certainly raise a flesh literally lol
> If our daughters or imaginary daughters came to us old enough to get married suitor or not and asked that, wouldn't we all tell her to wait and not marry? aside from giving her advice, our story, how God can help if he's included in that marriage ect... isn't that what it all comes down to? if you ask that, baby i think you should wait to get married...
> 
> *I mean young or old women need to understand you only enter in marriage with the utmost care,* cause there ain't no coming back *you marry him you stick with him, s*o you better know him really well and make sure he's the one you wanna hang around everyday for eternity and yeah *the time spent having sex is tiiiiiiiiny compared to the the rest of the time you spec with your husband looo*l



Sex is very important to the marriage and I agree that there are other aspects of marriage that make it wonderful.  Surely, one has to be careful entering into a marriage.  I'll give my sources in a bit.  I'm not limiting G-d, certainly, but anyone who goes into a marriage with an impotent man thinking that G-d will miraculously harden him up is, well, not being realistic.  I don't handle a rattlesnake thinking, "G-d will preserve me.  He'll bite me and I'll be asking Mr. Snake why he bit me.  He'll respond that he's a snake, so what did I expect?"  LOLOL~!



Supergirl said:


> I have never heard that in my life! Scripture please?
> 
> Also the part about a man not marrying unless he has a desire for sex--that makes it sound like sex is the prime reason a man marries and I KNOW with ZERO doubts that my husband didn't marry me for sex.



LOL.  Oh, it was you...I was looking and looking on pages 4-5.  You all along.  Well, please the part above.  No one is indicating your husband only married you for sex.  But it was part of the driving force behind the desire to marry.  Nothing wrong with that.  Sexual attraction encompasses a lot of different variables.  Sex is not only penis/vagina, it's a soul connection.

Now here are the sources.  I don't expect people to agree with it because they are not from our tradition, one, holy, catholic and apostolic specifically.  FoxxyScholar made a point once that all churches are catholic...and I sort of agree in that they are universal with Jesus the Messiah, they just aren't "caaaatholic."  We are not sola scriptura and that is biblically based according to Corinthians as well as Thessalonians (see link, more scriptures supporting it (http://www.scripturecatholic.com/oral_tradition.html)  I'm not typing all that out.  I'm providing the sources because it was asked of me.  

Basically, a valid marriage is basically indissoluble.  There are 7 conditions that must be met to validate a marriage.  Annulments mean that at the time of the marriage, not all conditions were met and can be dissolved as invalid.  I'm going to cut and paste to save time.  Don't despair they are from Wikepedia..they have the right references, saving me time to condense all that.  The last is the actual catechism.  Boring reading...but according to canonical law, the rules.  
The impediments to a sacramental marriage arehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_marriage)

*Impediments*

 A Catholic marriage cannot be formed if one or more of the following Impediments are given,[2] though of some of these a dispensation can be given.


antecedent and perpetual Impotence
Consanguinity to the fourth collateral line (1st cousin), including legal adoption to the second collateral line
Affinity (relationship by marriage, e.g. a brother-in-law) in the direct line
prior bond
Holy Orders
perpetual vows of chastity in a religious institute
Disparity of cult (one party not being baptized)
Crimen (one party previously conspiring to marry (upon condition of death of spouse) while still married); also called "conjugicide"
non-age (at least 16 for males, 14 for females)
abduction



http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm  (Catechism, Part 2, Sect. 2, Chapt. 3, Article 7:  1601-1666)

Lastly, or rather firstly, the Church is lead by the Holy Spirit, one, holy, catholic and apostolic where "catholic" means "universal."  Having direct succession from Judaism with the second covenant, this Church, eastern (orthodox) and western, all churches have their origin in the first.  The popes and bishops are the guiding authority of the Church, led by the Holy Spirit.    According to the Bible, sacred tradition (that handed down by G-d rather than man) and early christian writings attest to "the pillar and 						foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15), that  there is an unbroken succession of popes (consider a supreme pastor, unifying all those in the Church) leading back to Peter to whom Jesus said him (his name means 'rock')  "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail 						against it" (Matt. 16:18).  

Whew!  That sounds like a pitch...*it is not*.  We do not proselytize.  This is for anyone who ever asked me why I converted and wish to know the basis of why we do what we do....because it was handed down from the first christians who were Jews and believed that Jesus was the Messiah and handed down sacred tradition (Leviticus, Deuteronomy...sacred tradition in Judaism..that directed from G-d)...guided by the Magisterium...a uniform church throughout the world.  I can go anywhere in the world and know what is contained in the liturgy.  There are cultural traditions and diff. liturgies that are used throughout...but the basics are exactly the same with some very slight differences in doctrine largely due to history and councils.  Scripture, worship in song, holy communion, prayers etc.  Gosh, y'all make me work lolol!  I'm actually tired now But this is the reasoning behind it in case someone thinks and asks..."why?"

*Disclaimer:*_ I do not proselytize.  I don't truly care if anyone here converts to my or anyone else's faith - that is and will always be their free choice, given by G-d Himself.  This long post...and boy is it long, please excuse...but without it, how to explain??? ...was demonstrating the reasonings...often asked of me in pm's.  Glad I'm not the only one presenting long posts every once in awhile tho.._


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## Shimmie (Aug 22, 2009)

BlkHoneyLuv2U said:


> thanks Shimmie, when I see babies smiling in their sleep it make me wonder are they dreaming if so about what? are angels talking to them?...lol. But yep the po lil fella existence is because kids decided to go pass that hand holding stage theres no turning back now. No matter now cause he's here so all I can do is deal with it the best I can. and I will, I am. I dont like it but it wasnt my call. But baby boo is sweet though...to me anyway.....lol


I'm glad he has you... 

No matter how deeply you may have sighed at first.  This Handsome Little Prince, smiles in his dreams, because of you.  

Sweet Sleep Little Prince  

"Mommie" loves you.


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## Ladybelle (Aug 22, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I was just teasing with the 'bolded'...
> 
> Women (nor men) have to suffer sexually in marriage. I truly believe this.
> 
> ...


 
See, I'm glad I posed that question. You answered it so eloquently and so precisely, and your testimony is in itself enough to shine some light on what could be perceived as a dark situation... I'm so glad and grateful you were straightforward about it and willing to share what you've been through. God is awesome!!! His word is TRUE, it is soooo very true and it never returns unto him void. I could just do a praise dance right about now!!! - this, this honesty & truth is what my friend and all women (including myself) need to not only HEAR but EMBRACE. The TRUTH will set you free.  I will be having dinner with my friend and her husband tomorrow after church, while the men are having men talk - she and I are going to have this conversation and I'm so happy that now I have something of substance to tell her, besides to keep praying about it.

and, Shimmie- I know your husband loves him some you. You are the epitome of a wife- "she does him good and not evil all the days of her life" and "her love alone brings him great delight"  - he shall certainly "rejoice with the wife of his youth! "God continually bless you & your marriage. 

If I could hug you right now- I would.


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## Shimmie (Aug 22, 2009)

asuperwoman said:


> See, I'm glad I posed that question. You answered it so eloquently and so precisely, and your testimony is in itself enough to shine some light on what could be perceived as a dark situation... I'm so glad and grateful you were straightforward about it and willing to share what you've been through. God is awesome!!! His word is TRUE, it is soooo very true and it never returns unto him void. I could just do a praise dance right about now!!! - this, this honesty & truth is what my friend and all women (including myself) need to not only HEAR but EMBRACE. The TRUTH will set you free. I will be having dinner with my friend and her husband tomorrow after church, while the men are having men talk - she and I are going to have this conversation and I'm so happy that now I have something of substance to tell her, besides to keep praying about it.
> 
> and, Shimmie- I know your husband loves him some you. You are the epitome of a wife- "she does him good and not evil all the days of her life" and "her love alone brings him great delight" - he shall certainly "rejoice with the wife of his youth! "God continually bless you & your marriage.
> 
> If I could hug you right now- I would.


 
Bless your heart, I'll be praying for your friend and her husband.  It has to be very hard for you to see her go through this.   

I'll be honest, at times, it almost makes 'you' (not you, but in general terms, 'you') feel bad because you're happy when someone else is not.  (I hope that makes sense). 

I praise God for women with hearts such as yours, who hurt when their friends hurt.  You're standing in the gap for her until she's able to find her way through this.   For this cause, God is going to bless you multi-fold.  

_Ephesians 6:8_

_Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. 
_
_"Asper"_ when you talk with your friend, give her a great big hug and tell her this...  

_"And Adam 'knew' his wife".  (Genesis 4:1)_

From the very beginning, God created man (men) to know his wife.  Know means exactly what it means, 'to know'; have full knowledge of; to be familiar with; to understand; 

Are you ready for this?  This next word is powerful...

_*"to recognize the nature of"*   I just fell off my chair.  This really blessed me when I looked up the meaning of the word, "know".  God is something else!  _

_Could God have not used any better of a term for a man to *'KNOW'* his wife?_

_To Recognize the Nature of"...._ God has given the man, the husband the ability, the pleasure, the desire, the permission to 'Recognize the Nature of his wife.  To learn, support, cherish, her needs and desires and then fulfill them and make / keep her happy. 

And so it shall be for it is the ordained order of God and it is a Gift for a man and his wife.

Oh! And not for a one-time only event.  

_Look at this;_ _Genesis 4:25_

_"And Adam* knew *his wife again..."_

_   _

God never leaves us hanging.   Nope... Never.  

And for your dear friend.  She will also 'know' her huaband.  This is for her...

_"to be convinced or certain of"._   She will 'know' her husband and not be afraid.

_Halleluia!    _

As for me, I'm not '_re- married'_ yet, but he already knows he has a handful.  

I was sharing about my first marriage above.  

Be blessed, give your friend a hug; tell her it's already alright.  It really is. :Rose:


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## delitefulmane (Aug 23, 2009)

Im no where near being married but this is such a great thread!


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## Farida (Aug 23, 2009)

I don't think you would ever have had to have the big O to know that you were missing out on something.

I wish people would encourage Christian couples more instead of blaming sexual problems on sin...


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## xcuzememiss (Jun 30, 2010)

great thread


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## dimechiq (Jun 30, 2010)

asuperwoman said:


> I have a friend in Christ whom I love dearly who is suffering from this very issue which is why I asked. I don't know what to tell her. I have talked her out of adultery on more than one occassion, she's desperate for what her dh is not giving her. She thinks another man may fill that need.* She wasn't a virgin before marriage- maybe that's where the problem is. She knows how good it can be....*



Trust me even if her flower were unpicked, her body would still scream for what it needs. Feel me?


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