# Jehovah Witnesses



## Kinkyhairlady (Jan 21, 2010)

I hope not to offend anyone with this question but I am curious. I have a friend who is a Jehovah witness and she does not celebrate holidays, birthdays nor does she vote. She went on a trip with her congregation and I asked her why did’nt she invite me and her response was that they don’t allow outsiders to come on these trips for precautions. What precautions? She knows me so it is not like I am a crazy women which would start trouble. So it leads me to think maybe there are some secret doctrines or something they talk about that others can’t know unless they convert. Don’t Jehovah’s witnesses read the same bible as Christians? I am sorry to say this but at times I think they come off as kind of a cult.  Anyways that is the impression I get from my friend. She does not celebrate anything but has no problem having premarital sex, is’nt that in the bible too. My point is that they have all these restrictions as though they are perfect, and I don’t understand why.


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## divya (Jan 21, 2010)

Jehovah's Witnesses _are_ Christians, but simply not part of the _mainstream_ for lack of better words.  Here is the official JW site. It should provide answers to most, if not, all of your questions.  http://www.watchtower.org/


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## divya (Jan 21, 2010)

Just want to add that many beliefs may seem like restrictions to others but are blessings and liberating to those who adhere. Christianity is truly a lifestyle for a number of people out here. It's not that they don't struggle with certain issues, such as your friend with premarital sex, but they understand that there is a whole lot that goes into Christian life.


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## DigitalRain (Jan 21, 2010)

Ellis said:


> I hope not to offend anyone with this question but I am curious. I have a friend who is a Jehovah witness and she does not celebrate holidays, birthdays nor does she vote. She went on a trip with her congregation and I asked her why did’nt she invite me and her response was that they don’t allow outsiders to come on these trips for precautions. What precautions? She knows me so it is not like I am a crazy women which would start trouble. So it leads me to think maybe there are some secret doctrines or something they talk about that others can’t know unless they convert. Don’t Jehovah’s witnesses read the same bible as Christians? I am sorry to say this but at times I think they come off as kind of a cult.  Anyways that is the impression I get from my friend. She does not celebrate anything but has no problem having premarital sex, is’nt that in the bible too. My point is that they have all these restrictions as though they are perfect, and I don’t understand why.



Jehovah's Witnesses LOVE to bring non-JWs to their conventions and meetings in hopes that you will covert to their religion. She didn't invite you because you obviously know some dirt about her. You stated that she has premarital sex, which she can get in a world of trouble for with the elders in her congregation if YOU let the cat out of the bag, if she brought you along.

Including the fact that when the elder starts to preach about premarital sex and how true Christians don't engage in this sinful behavior. She had too much at stake by bringing you.


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## divya (Jan 21, 2010)

DigitalRain said:


> Jehovah's Witnesses LOVE to bring non-JWs to their conventions and meetings in hopes that you will covert to their religion. She didn't invite you because you obviously know some dirt about her. You stated that she has premarital sex, which she can get in a world of trouble for with the elders in her congregation if YOU let the cat out of the bag, if she brought you along.
> 
> Including the fact that when the elder starts to preach about premarital sex and how true Christians don't engage in this sinful behavior. She had too much at stake by bringing you.



LOL! I didn't even think about that...ha ha ha. Guess that might be what she meant when she said "precautions."


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## DigitalRain (Jan 21, 2010)

divya said:


> LOL! I didn't even think about that...ha ha ha. Guess that might be what she meant when she said "precautions."



I know right?  She's not trying to rock the boat by bringing someone who knows EVERYTHING about her......activities.


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## Laela (Jan 21, 2010)

I've got a cousin who is JW.... interesting.




DigitalRain said:


> Jehovah's Witnesses LOVE to bring non-JWs to their conventions and meetings in hopes that you will covert to their religion. She didn't invite you because you obviously know some dirt about her. You stated that she has premarital sex, which she can get in a world of trouble for with the elders in her congregation if YOU let the cat out of the bag, if she brought you along.
> 
> Including the fact that when the elder starts to preach about premarital sex and how true Christians don't engage in this sinful behavior. She had too much at stake by bringing you.


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## Kinkyhairlady (Jan 21, 2010)

DigitalRain said:


> Jehovah's Witnesses LOVE to bring non-JWs to their conventions and meetings in hopes that you will covert to their religion. She didn't invite you because you obviously know some dirt about her. You stated that she has premarital sex, which she can get in a world of trouble for with the elders in her congregation if YOU let the cat out of the bag, if she brought you along.
> 
> Including the fact that when the elder starts to preach about premarital sex and how true Christians don't engage in this sinful behavior. She had too much at stake by bringing you.




I thought that was odd, churches usually welcome visitors on their trips. Maybe she acts a certain way around them and thought I would question that, idk. I still don't like how they don't vote, does'nt the economy effect them to.


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## Mamita (Jan 22, 2010)

Ellis said:


> I hope not to offend anyone with this question but I am curious. I have a friend who is a Jehovah witness and she does not celebrate holidays, birthdays nor does she vote. She went on a trip with her congregation and I asked her why did’nt she invite me and her response was that they don’t allow outsiders to come on these trips for precautions. What precautions? She knows me so it is not like I am a crazy women which would start trouble. So it leads me to think maybe there are some secret doctrines or something they talk about that others can’t know unless they convert. Don’t Jehovah’s witnesses read the same bible as Christians? I am sorry to say this but at times I think they come off as kind of a cult.  Anyways that is the impression I get from my friend. She does not celebrate anything but has no problem having premarital sex, is’nt that in the bible too. My point is that *they have all these restrictions as though they are perfect*, and I don’t understand why.



that is not the right way to look at it. Be very careful with that attitude if you guys are friends, cause you could lose her just for that type of thinking

In holiness we dont wear pants, make up, lots of jewels, dont celebrate any holidays, bdays are just exchanging gifts, don't go to movies, don't do a lot of things deemed "normal" by the average person, doesn't mean we think we're perfect, it's just the path we chose to follow and it works for us, we see results, regardless of what everybody else does.

And about voting... we don't either... and even if the economy affects us we know the economy is in the hand of the Lord, our money is in the hands of the Lord, our lil lives are in the hands of the Lord, and He chooses our presidents, not us. It's all according to HIS purpose, we don't have the audacity to say that we make anything happen or we choose our destiny or kings or presidents.
Bush fulfilled HIS purpose, Obama is fulfilling HIS purpose, Hitler fulfilled HIS purpose all the Lord's Purpose.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 22, 2010)

Mamita said:


> that is not the right way to look at it. Be very careful with that attitude if you guys are friends, cause you could lose her just for that type of thinking
> 
> In holiness we dont wear pants, make up, lots of jewels, dont celebrate any holidays, bdays are just exchanging gifts, don't go to movies, don't do a lot of things deemed "normal" by the average person, doesn't mean we think we're perfect, it's just the path we chose to follow and it works for us, we see results, regardless of what everybody else does.
> 
> ...


Are you saying that Hitler fulfilled the Lord's purpose by what he did?

Please clarify.  Thanks.


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## Mamita (Jan 22, 2010)

Hey Nice & Wavy

Yes i sure do believe Hitler fulfilled His purpose, and the Lord knew and it's what he had planned.

There's no mistake in what has happened in the world as a whole, no chance, nothing that was not supposed to happen.

Scripture has to be fulfilled

The world is going to hell and no amount of voters is gonna change that lol

Tsunami, Haiti, China earthquake, all His purpose, it was all written and it was all in store for us.

We might not like it but that's all in His perfect plan.

Just like when Jesus Christ died, it was part of the perfect plan, that was the Lord's purpose all along. Doesn't mean He hated Jesus, doesn't mean God hated the Jews because Hitler did what he did, it's all about scripture being fulfilled.


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## ~~HoneyComb~~ (Jan 22, 2010)

Ellis said:


> She does not celebrate anything but has no problem having premarital sex, is’nt that in the bible too..


 
Is she baptized?  Baptized JW's do not have premarital sex--that's a big no no.


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## divya (Jan 22, 2010)

~~HoneyComb~~ said:


> Is she baptized?  Baptized JW's do not have premarital sex--that's a big no no.



Uh...they shouldn't. Christians in general should not, but it happens.


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## ~~HoneyComb~~ (Jan 22, 2010)

divya said:


> Uh...they shouldn't. Christian in general should not, but it happens.


 

This is true, but like one poster mentioned--if this was found out by the elders she'd either have to get herself right or risk being disfellowshipped--and I couldn't see her going around freely disposing this type of info unless she didn't care one way or the other.


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## writtenthought (Jan 22, 2010)

I was raised a Jehovah Witness...your friend is straight up lying. Sorry but she is being a hypocrite (sp?)


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## chiprecious (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah I'm not a JW, but was also raised one....Your friend is TRIPPING and needs to be disfellowshipped!!!  She is not supposed to be having premarital sex at all!  THAT'S why you weren't invite.  I'm invited to EVERYTHING my mom goes to.  Also, they don't even date unless it's specifically to marry that person.  Even then, it's usually not one on one to prevent any chances for sexual indiscretion.  

Offtopic:  I was never baptised but I often think of being one.  In my teens, it was just too restrictive.  No short skirts, no random dating, etc.  No as I get older and the world is changing, you can't help but see the scriptures prophecies coming true.  The grave natural disasters that keep occuring, the vast disregard for life, global warning, and extreme greed are just some examples.  Yes we've always had these things, but not to this extent.  We are slowly destroying ourselves...also foretold...


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 22, 2010)

Mamita said:


> Hey Nice & Wavy
> 
> Yes i sure do believe Hitler fulfilled His purpose, and the Lord knew and it's what he had planned.
> 
> ...


Nothing happens without God allowing it, but to say that what Hitler did to those people were apart of 'HIS' purpose is out of order.  God's purpose for man is for every man to be saved, and for no one to perish.  God's purpose for man is for man to love one another, and want the best for each other.  

God's plan was for us to live for eternity, not die in sin...this is why Jesus came into the world to demonstrate the true purpose of life and give propitiation (atonement) for our sins.

[FONT=arial, helvetica]Jesus Christ came into the world to do the Will of His Father.  "_For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me._" [/FONT]John 6:38

 We were created by God, in His image, for a purpose. Just as God set apart from birth Isaiah (Isaiah 49:1), Jeremiah (Jeremiah 12:5) and Paul (Galatians 1: 15) for a specific purpose, he also has a specific plan for your life. 

_"‘For I know the plans I have for you,’ declared the Lord, ‘plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future’” _Jeremiah 29:11

The Bible says that God's will is “good, pleasing and perfect” Romans 12:2

_“This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth”_  1 Timothy 2: 3-4

_“Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight” _Proverbs 3: 5-6

Remember that God's ultimate purpose for all of us is that He would be glorified (1 Corinthians 10:31) and that the gospel and God's kingdom would be advanced (Genesis 50:20 and Philippians 1:12).


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## GodsPromises (Jan 22, 2010)

You are so right about that.  It is what got me "disfellowshipped" a very long time ago 



~~HoneyComb~~ said:


> Is she baptized?  Baptized JW's do not have premarital sex--that's a big no no.


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## Mamita (Jan 22, 2010)

It is not out of order

even if his WISH is for us to be saved he knows already that only a handful will be and the rest of the world is doomed, it is written, that the world will see great natural disasters it is written, *that the jews were gonna be persecuted it was written
*
His plan for HIS PEOPLE is to live, HIS people will follow him, those that don't believe in Him at all are already doomed, and He knows those that are His before they are born, hence the ones that aren't also, who do you think he calls "untoward generation"? who is left if all men will be saved? many will perish

either u believe scripture or you don't

there's nothing out of order in what i said


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 22, 2010)

Mamita said:


> It is not out of order
> 
> even if his WISH is for us to be saved he knows already that only a handful will be and the rest of the world is doomed, it is written, that the world will see great natural disasters it is written, *that the jews were gonna be persecuted it was written
> *
> ...


Out of everything I wrote in that post, you only focused on 'out of order?'

Ok....erplexed

Mamita, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but its wrong.  I know what is written, but that's not what I originally asked about.  You said that *"Hitler fulfilled HIS (God's) purpose"* and that indicates to me that God's purpose was to see millions of people exterminated...and that's wrong.

I'm sure we can go back and forth with this, which I will not, but we must be careful when we are talking about God and what His purpose is for man.  If we are to talk about it, we must share it correctly.  There are so many people who may be reading this that will be totally offended by what you said, and that's not cool at all.

That's my heart on this matter and I'm done.


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## Still Sexy Stewardess (Jan 22, 2010)

> even if his WISH is for us to be saved *he knows already that only a handful will be and the rest of the world is doomed, *it is written, that the world will see great natural disasters it is written, that the jews were gonna be persecuted it was written



I've always genuinely wondered about this particular JW teaching.  If only a handful will be saved, does that mean salvation is NOT for all who believe?  Also, does that mean that only JW will be among the final "handful"?


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## divya (Jan 22, 2010)

~~HoneyComb~~ said:


> This is true, but like one poster mentioned--if this was found out by the elders she'd either have to get herself right or risk being disfellowshipped--and I couldn't see her going around freely disposing this type of info unless she didn't care one way or the other.



Yes, true. However, that she is having premarital sex doesn't necessarily mean that she is freely disposing this info. The OP is supposed to be her friend, so that's likely why she knows. And she surely isn't being _that_ free about it seeing that she didn't invite the OP on the retreat.  So again, it shouldn't happen but sometimes it does...


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## Nice & Wavy (Jan 22, 2010)

.................


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## Mamita (Jan 22, 2010)

Still Sexy Stewardess said:


> I've always genuinely wondered about this particular JW teaching.  If only a handful will be saved, does that mean salvation is NOT for all who believe?  Also, does that mean that only JW will be among the final "handful"?



I'm not JW lol

Salvation IS for all who believe RIGHT, it only means in the end the ratio will be ridiculous. I don't know about Jehova's Witnesses i only knw about holy ghost filled people lol

you have heard of the rocky and narrow path that leads to god and the wide and paved with gold path that leads to destruction right?

It's narrow cause not a lot of people will fit on it, the other is wide and will be full...

Nice and Wavy : scripture HAS BEEN, IS BEING, and WILL BE _*FULFILLED*_ one way or another all according to HIS purpose.


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## tecourt (Jan 22, 2010)

Ellis you seem to already have negative perceptions about JW, so why would you want to go to your friend's church retreat? Maybe she has picked up on your negative feeling and does not want her beliefs to be judged by you.


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## Laela (Jan 22, 2010)

I believe I understand what Mamita is saying when she mentioned Hitler... that he fulfilled prophecy, not that he did what he did as part of God's purpose. Hitler had a choice. He's believed to be whom is mentioned in Daniel 8.

Mamita: please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not trying to speak for you; just trying to understand what I'm reading.




God doesn't need the help of the devil to accomplish anything. The story of Job is a fine example of this. God's will is for all to be saved. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 22 "*For many are called, but few are chosen*."

It doesn't mean there's a pre-select group of people to be saved but that  salvation is open to ALL and that God calls everyone and gives them the power     to respond. Those who choose to respond to His call, are those who are chosen. 

Sexy Stewardess: That's the one part of JW's  beliefs that I, too, had a problem with 




Still Sexy Stewardess said:


> I've always genuinely wondered about this particular JW teaching.  If only a handful will be saved, does that mean salvation is NOT for all who believe?  Also, does that mean that only JW will be among the final "handful"?


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## Still Sexy Stewardess (Jan 22, 2010)

Nice & Wavy said:


> _“This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth”_  1 Timothy 2: 3-4
> 
> Just from this scripture alone, reveals the heart of God towards mankind.
> 
> HTH




Thanks, N&W, for the mainstream Christian view.  (I mean "mainstream" with respect.)  I'm familiar with it.  My own faith is _built_ on it.  

What I am questioning is the JW view of this.  I recall seeing some JW literature that suggested a certain specific number (a few hundred thousand?) souls would actually be saved.  If I'm accurately describing this belief, it would seem very hard for even a JW to be in that number. And if, a JW has sinned or been excommunicated, what would then be their hope for salvation, under JW tenants?


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## GodsPromises (Jan 22, 2010)

The JW's belief is that 144,000 will be in heaven with God ruling but most who believes in Jehovah and JW's believes will be here on earth in paradise after the Great Tribulation is over.  They believe that all won't be in heaven but on earth which is what God intended for mankind.



Still Sexy Stewardess said:


> Thanks, N&W, for the mainstream Christian view.  (I mean "mainstream" with respect.)  I'm familiar with it.  My own faith is _built_ on it.
> 
> What I am questioning is the JW view of this.  I recall seeing some JW literature that suggested a certain specific number (a few hundred thousand?) souls would actually be saved.  If I'm accurately describing this belief, it would seem very hard for even a JW to be in that number. And if, a JW has sinned or been excommunicated, what would then be their hope for salvation, under JW tenants?


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## Mamita (Jan 22, 2010)

Yes Laela you explain it better than me

and the lil group is only pre-select in the sense that God knows who it will be, but we don't, but since it's God and He knows everything that's not too hard to understand lol But yeah we just don't know who will finish the race, who will die saved etc...

And i have no idea what JW believe in lol


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## ~~HoneyComb~~ (Jan 22, 2010)

divya said:


> Yes, true. However, that she is having premarital sex doesn't necessarily mean that she is freely disposing this info. The OP is supposed to be her friend, so that's likely why she knows. And she surely isn't being _that_ free about it seeing that she didn't invite the OP on the retreat.  So again, it shouldn't happen but sometimes it does...


 
It would not look good for her if OP blurted out unknowingly "Girl, what's going on with that dude, so and so, you hooked up with a while ago" around other JW's 

But if it got out that she was engaging in this activity she could be disfellowshipped  which is a very serious in the Jehovah's Witness religion--premarital sex is something that JW's don't take lightly at all.

And I agree with you--it happens no matter what religion you belong to.


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## Still Sexy Stewardess (Jan 22, 2010)

deleted


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## Prudent1 (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi Ellis! Here is a link to a former thread on JW. There have been a lot of posts on this subject. There are huge differences in JW beliefs and evangelical beliefs from my understanding and conversations with the JW I know. Do a search here w/i the forum on JW. Do a search in google or somewhere to list the core beliefs of each faith. Then pray and ask God for wisdom and discernment. He enlightens.
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/archive/index.php/t-374157.html


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## divya (Jan 23, 2010)

Here's another thread about Jehovah's Witnesses. JWs on the forum lend some insight into their branch of Christianity in this thread.

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=355287&highlight=jehovah+witness

It was locked due to a number of rude comments but still worth the read. Janaq, Brownchiq, Honeydew and a few others have some good posts.


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## Kinkyhairlady (Jan 23, 2010)

tecourt said:


> Ellis you seem to already have negative perceptions about JW, so why would you want to go to your friend's church retreat? Maybe she has picked up on your negative feeling and does not want her beliefs to be judged by you.



I do not have a negative perception about Jehovah's witnesses, I know little about them but I know we all believe in one God. It was not a retreat it was just a trip to tour NYC, so I don't see what the big deal was. I just wanted to go to NYC, I could careless what they would be talking about, cause I already have my own religion. I do believe she may have been fearful that I would look at her differently if I seen how she acts around them, that is a more logical explanation.


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## VelvetRain (Jan 23, 2010)

divya said:


> Uh...they shouldn't. Christians in general should not, but it happens.




Exactly. That reminds me of the time I told my gynecologist I did not need a prescription for birth control because I was a Jehovah's Witness, wasn't married and and we didn't have premarital sex. She turned around and told me that that is not always the case because she has patients that were witnesses who were unmarried that did accept a prescription. That shut me up real quick.


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## tecourt (Jan 23, 2010)

Ellis said:


> I do not have a negative perception about Jehovah's witnesses, I know little about them but I know we all believe in one God. It was not a retreat it was just a trip to tour NYC, so I don't see what the big deal was. I just wanted to go to NYC, I could careless what they would be talking about, cause I already have my own religion. I do believe she may have been fearful that I would look at her differently if I seen how she acts around them, that is a more logical explanation.


*" I am sorry to say this but at times I think they come off as kind of a cult. Anyways that is the impression I get from my friend. "*
 The word cult has a very negative perception for most people.


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## HWAY (Jan 23, 2010)

If the group travelled to NYC, they went to the world wide headquarters of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. It was similar to a retreat.  That was one reason why you were not invited.

As was stated, premarital sex is frowned upon and you would have exposed her to her parents and the elders. When one lives a double life, one works very hard to prevent the two from meeting.


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## shinyblackhair (Jan 24, 2010)

BlackApple said:


> Exactly. That reminds me of the time I told my gynecologist I did not need a prescription for birth control because I was a Jehovah's Witness, wasn't married and and we didn't have premarital sex. *She turned around and told me that that is not always the case because she has patients that were witnesses who were unmarried that did accept a prescription*. That shut me up real quick.


 
Well, this is the thing. Without sounding like I'm bashing, I have a hard time understanding the JWs. I have a lot of them on my mom's side (my mom is not one though) and it's like they stick to the JW "rules" (don't do birthdays, Christmas, etc.), but in every other aspect of life they appear to be very secular (music, drinking alchohol, gambling etc.). I'm not saying *all* JWs are like this, however, the ones in my family kinda are...erplexed


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## divya (Jan 24, 2010)

shinyblackhair said:


> Well, this is the thing. Without sounding like I'm bashing, I have a hard time understanding the JWs. I have a lot of them on my mom's side (my mom is not one though) and it's like they stick to the JW "rules" (don't do birthdays, Christmas, etc.), but in every other aspect of life they appear to be very secular (music, drinking alchohol, gambling etc.). I'm not saying *all* JWs are like this, however, the ones in my family kinda are...erplexed



I kinda understand this...but then, you can find people like this is every branch of Christianity and every religion. Maybe that's why non-religious people say they have problem understanding those of us who are religious...


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## shinyblackhair (Jan 24, 2010)

divya said:


> I kinda understand this...but then, you can find people like this is every branch of Christianity and every religion. Maybe that's why non-religious people say they have problem understanding those of us who are religious...


 

VERY good point. I hate to sound judgmental...I probably shouldn't have said what I said. Lord knows I'm not perfect. God forgive me.


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