# Donnie McClurkin's story on his path life as a homosexual



## Country gal (May 2, 2005)

*Donnie McClurkin's story on his past life as a homosexual*

Sorry if this is old news about Donnie McClurkin 

Transformed Lives

No Longer a Victim


Pastor Donnie McClurkin was raped at the age of 8 and spent years wrestling with homosexuality. Today he's telling the world that true freedom can be found in Christ.

By Donnie McClurkin



At the age of 8, a child's mind should be on school and play, on trucks and toys and growing up to be whatever catches his or her fancy for the moment. Preadolescence should be years of innocence, naiveté and blissful ignorance. But when a child is thrust into adult situations that he is not mature enough to handle, that child will fall into a downward spiral of confusion that is not easily reversed. 
At the age of 8, I was hurled into a chasm of confusion by a violation of rape. This Pandora's Box was opened in my prepubescence and introduced me to adult sexualities, issues and perversions far beyond my years and definitely beyond my ability to escape without damage. 
On June 6, 1968, a tragedy struck my family that would change our lives. While playing in the yard with my six siblings, I made a neglectful mistake. I was supposed to be watching my 2-year-old brother, Thomas, but I left him in the ungated yard to cross the street to retrieve a ball. Unbeknownst to me at the time, he was following me. 
Watching from the living room window, my mother screamed for me to get the baby. I turned around just in time
 to see my baby brother struck down by a speeding car--killed with my mother helplessly watching from the window. My mother got to him just in time to hear his last word: "Mommy." 
My family had never experienced this kind of trauma before, and my mother was devastated. After seeing that tragic event in front of our home, my mother had to get away. After a few nights at my grandmother's house, my parents sent all of us children home to be cared for by our Uncle Clarence. What they had no way of knowing was that this family member was a pedophile. 
It is not necessary to recount the horrid details of this invasion, but that night I was sexually abused and raped by this uncle, and it caused great hurt and confusion in my life for many years to follow. I realize now that this happened because he himself was a broken man. He was unhealed with no one to help him. In spite of the damage done to and in my life, I understand and forgive him wholehearted





dly. 
But a seed had been planted--a seed of homosexuality that I would struggle with for many years to come. I was not born with these sexual tendencies. It wasn't chromosomal and had nothing to do with my DNA. These tendencies surfaced because a broken man thrust an 8-year-old boy into this whirlwind. Thus my first sexual relationship was with a man. Before I could ever know the purpose or pleasure of a woman, have my first date or even my first kiss, the wound was inflicted, and the seed was planted. 
I received Jesus a year after the rape at the age of 9, but the struggle was just starting. I had feelings and thoughts that I knew weren't right. I had compelling desires that made it difficult to interact with my male best friends or any males at all. Attractions started to develop that were seemingly beyond my control. 
There was a war going on to determine my purpose, and I didn't even know it. And the war zone was in my mind. My mind was in daily turmoil--in school, in church, at home, at play, alone or with a crowd. Watching television was tempting and lust provoking and the sexual innuendo in music only made things worse. 
My only relief from this turmoil was church. There I could escape the thoughts and feelings, and hear stories of how the power of God changed others' lives. It was another world--my world, where I felt at peace, like I belonged. In the daily scheme of things, I was a total misfit. My taboo, secret homosexual desires made me shy and reclusive. I was raised in a sea of women and didn't know how to adequately interact with men. And because of what was done to me by men, I couldn't relate to men without some type of sexual thoughts and feelings. 
My escape was music. I had just started playing the piano at age 11, and I was consumed with gospel music. I didn't sing that well, but loved to sing all the same. I would listen for hours to Andraé Crouch and the Disciples and fantasize about singing in the group. Church and music allowed me to escape my "issues." Somehow those perversions couldn't bother me there. Church was a safe haven that seemed to remove me from the grasp of the temptation--but only temporarily. 
A Deceptive Underworld 
I was 13 when I was sexually molested again. This time it was by my uncle's son, Clarence Jr. If the seed of homosexual lust and desire was planted with my uncle, it was surely fertilized and deeply rooted with his son's sexual violation of me. I was devastated and told that I couldn't tell or he would do much worse. I believed him and remained silent for years. 
The only place for me to express myself without total fear was in church. But it wasn't long before I discovered that there were many more in the church with these problems who wanted to be free but had to remain silent because this was a taboo issue. They came to church week after week, looking and yearning for deliverance from this desire. They, like me, were thrust into this before they had a choice in the matter by someone who took advantage of them. 
I wonder how it would have been if there were someone--anyone--who I could have confided in before this seed took root. But instead of finding a mentor, I discovered that there were vultures also in the church--predatory men who would soon attempt to take advantage of a broken boy and his confusion. My world of security was invaded when other broken men, in need of healing, revealed their secret lifestyles and introduced me to a deceptive underworld in the church. 
Singing on Sundays after weekend rendezvous was commonplace. Seeing other "Christians" in compromising places, yet faithfully, hypocritically and deceptively at their posts in church as though nothing was wrong was typical. Those involved became bilingual because this lifestyle had its own "language." They would converse one way with people in general and a completely different way with the members of their secret inner circle. 
It was something like radar. No matter where they were they could detect others with the same lifestyle, as well as be detected. Unhealed ministers, singers and those in leadership--married and unmarried--involved people who looked up to them with respect. Those brothers and sisters were looking for help from these men and women, but found themselves victims of the broken leaders in a vicious cycle. 
Yet in spite of all of this, my love for Christ continued to grow. And in that growth God sent people to my rescue to help with my deliverance. Ironically, it wasn't the men of the church who helped mold my masculinity. There really weren't enough of them there. It was the sisters and mothers of the church who became active in breaking this curse. Although these older mothers did not know exactly what I struggled with, the Holy Spirit revealed to them that there was a struggle. 
They would pray with me, talk with me, and a few of them--Sister Kitty Braizley in particular--would even teach me how to carry myself like a man. When I wanted to sing soprano, they'd say things like, "Get some bass in your voice!" or, "Men don't sing soprano!" Sister Braizley even taught me how to walk. If I held my hand up in a feminine way, she'd hit it and say: "Put your hands at your side. Men don't hold their hands like that!" 
These small things played a part in molding and making me, but none of these things could have helped me without my desire and determination to be completely whole. I personally do not believe that there is any such thing as an "unwanted" change. There has to be a sincere desire for change in order for it to be real and complete. If a person is changing solely for others, the change will not be genuine and lasting.


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## Country gal (May 2, 2005)

A Time to Hate 
The seed that was planted had to be first destroyed from the root and plucked up. I had to become tired of the torment and seek a genuine exit from the desire. I read in Ecclesiastes 3 that there is a time to love and a time to hate. That struck me as odd because I had never heard anyone preach about the time to hate. 
Any sermons dealing with emotions only addressed love, peace, patience, forgiveness, compassion, sadness and so on, but they never dealt with why to, what to, who to and how to hate. I had to learn how to actually hate the thing that was abhorrent to God--even if it's in me. 
God started to deal with me through that Scripture and show me what He meant: 
1. Why to hate. Because He hates the things that are purposed to destroy the ones He loves and is against His nature and design. He created me to be a man a whole man and to love one woman. Anything else is perversion of the male purpose. 
2. What to hate. Whatever has been sent to confuse, delay and deny me of my purpose has to become my enemy. Mind you, I said whatever, not whoever. 
3. Who to hate. We must be very careful with this. The church has a tendency to misdirect their emotions toward what they deem "sin." We condemn the person and hurtfully wield our spiritual hammer, pounding the person instead of the deed. We've damaged and lost so many with our pious and sanctimonious attitudes. 
The Bible says in Ephesians 6:12, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (KJV). So our battle is never with a person. We are to look past the individual and hate the spirit that caused these things to happen through the person. 
I don't hate the men who sexually abused me in my childhood, nor do I hate the predators who tried to prey on me in my weakness. I hate what caused these men to do this. I hate the thing that infected their minds and brought them to the point of damaging a child's life. 
4. How to hate. You have to make yourself develop a "dislike" for the things that have interrupted your happiness. You have to see wrong as being wrong and convince yourself that no matter how you feel, this can never be right. The appetite that has been molded and developed through years of abuse for things that are harmful must change, regardless of how comfortable you've become in these situations. 
I began to pray daily, especially when the lust would stir up: "Lord, teach me how to hate. Give me a hatred for what You hate." I would constantly recite--and still do to this day--"Every enemy of God is an enemy of mine." 
Even though the struggle continued, I found that the more I immersed myself in the study of the Scriptures and used those verses during my temptation; I began to win the battle. Psalm 119:9-11 says: "Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed thereto according to thy word. With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments. Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." 
I found that you can know the Scriptures and fail in your struggle because you never used them. But when you use them in the midst of your temptation, they give you the strength to overcome. 
I don't want you to think that it is just that simple. There are many more things that need to be done to break the curse of homosexuality. These are just some of the things that brought me to total deliverance. The seed was killed from its root, plucked up, and now there is a seed of righteousness that's incorruptible. 
Luke 8:11 states that the Word of God is a seed. It is of the utmost importance that the seed (sperm) of His Word be planted in your heart (mind) in order for you to maintain deliverance. I use this analogy: When a woman is impregnated, a seed is planted in her womb, and when that seed takes root in the egg, it stops the natural menstrual cycle, and the baby begins to grow. 
It's the same with the Word of God. When the seed is planted into a person's heart, if used correctly it will stop the natural cycle of sin. The Word will multiply and grow and bring forth fruit, and the fruit will remain. 
There may be some who will read this and resent some of the statements made about homosexuality. I understand. Some have no desire to change this lifestyle. But there are countless numbers of people who are not happy in this lifestyle and want to be freed from it. They were thrust into homosexuality by neglect, abuse and molestation, and want desperately to live normal lives and one day have a happy home and family. 
For them, I write this without apology, knowing that I've been through this and have experienced God's power to change my lifestyle. I believed that I was meant to be a whole man, made for one woman, and God brought it all about. I am delivered, and I know God can deliver others too. 

Donnie McClurkin, an award-winning gospel artist, pastors The Perfecting Faith Church in Freeport, New York.


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## sugaplum (May 2, 2005)

I heard rumors about this, but this just confirmed.  He is a strong man of God and a good example of the many changes that can take place in your life with Jesus on your side.  This story is very traggic.   I'm so sorry this happened to him.   This just confirms that "homosexuality" can be overcome. 

Thank you for sharing this sbaker.


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## sprungonhairboards (May 2, 2005)

I never knew that story but always thought there was something a little "how you doin" about him


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## Poohbear (May 2, 2005)

His childhood was such a sad and tragic experience.   I'm glad God delivered him.


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 2, 2005)

He has a video on his life story and it is very moving.....brought me to tears.

On the video, he discusses how people are always trying to dig up "dirt" on him to prove that he HASN'T been delivered. There are some who refuse to believe that he has been delivered and feel his story threatens their lifestyle.  The dvd chronicles his life from a child to now.

http://www.thedonniemcclurkinstory.com/dvd.html


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## Janice (May 2, 2005)

I was heard he was engaged. Does anyone know if this is true?


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## Country gal (May 2, 2005)

God uses people for a reason. Donnie may be an example to non homosexuals too that we can't just condemn someone. That God loves sinners to, in fact he hopes that the sinners turn away from sin and turn to him.


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## Honeyhips (May 3, 2005)

God uses everyones life like that. 





			
				sbaker said:
			
		

> God uses people for a reason. Donnie may be an example to non homosexuals too that we can't just condemn someone. That God loves sinners to, in fact he hopes that the sinners turn away from sin and turn to him.


 
Isn't his story pretty common knowledge?  I thought he had a baby recently out of wedlock. Forgive me if the story said this. I skimmed it.


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## Keike (May 3, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> I heard rumors about this, but this just confirmed.  He is a strong man of God and a good example of the many changes that can take place in your life with Jesus on your side.  This story is very traggic.   I'm so sorry this happened to him.   This just confirms that "homosexuality" can be overcome.
> 
> Thank you for sharing this sbaker.



Was it overcome really??  Or is he just denying who he really is?  Let me put it this way, who among us would marry a man who had "overcome" his homosexuality?  Wait, Star Jones is not a member, is she?  Haha.


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## Honeyhips (May 3, 2005)

I believe he did overcome it.   God can deliver people.   

Would I marry him, no, but I don't want to marry someone who was a heavy drug user either. It may not be his purpose in life to get married. IT doesn't mean he is not gay though.


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## Keike (May 3, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I believe he did overcome it.   God can deliver people.
> 
> Would I marry him, no, but I don't want to marry someone who was a heavy drug user either. It may not be his purpose in life to get married. IT doesn't mean he is not gay though.



Well for his fiancee's sake, I hope you all are right .


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## meka (May 3, 2005)

Keike said:
			
		

> Was it overcome really??  Or is he just denying who he really is?  Let me put it this way, who among us would marry a man who had "overcome" his homosexuality?  Wait, Star Jones is not a member, is she?  Haha.


It is not a matter of overcoming so to speak, it is being delivered.  Homosexuality is a spirit.  No one is born gay, that is like someone saying that they were born a drug addict.  Please!!!  He has been delivered from homosexual tendencies.  God can do anything, it is all a matter of asking Him for it.  Would I marry a man like that, sure, because I don't doubt what God can do.  If God told me that a man like that was my husband, then my job is to be obedient.


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 3, 2005)

uh oh....

Sidebar: Donnie specifically talks about overcoming homosexuality for those who were introduced to it by sexual abuse.



			
				meka said:
			
		

> It is not a matter of overcoming so to speak, it is being delivered. Homosexuality is a spirit. No one is born gay, that is like someone saying that they were born a drug addict. Please!!! He has been delivered from homosexual tendencies. God can do anything, it is all a matter of asking Him for it. Would I marry a man like that, sure, because I don't doubt what God can do. If God told me that a man like that was my husband, then my job is to be obedient.


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## Honeyhips (May 3, 2005)

Are you implying that there are two different types of homosexuality? 





			
				natalied said:
			
		

> uh oh....
> 
> Sidebar: Donnie specifically talks about overcoming homosexuality for those who were introduced to it by sexual abuse.


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 3, 2005)

No.  Just stating how Donnie addresses it.  But I will say that people come to the homosexual lifestyles in different ways.  Some people embrace it on their own, others are forced into it by rape and sexual abuse.  Donnie implies that he was forced into homosexuality b/c of the rapes and he wasn't allowed to develop man/woman sexual feelings b/c of the trauma associated with those rapes.



> If the seed of homosexual lust and desire was planted with my uncle, it was surely fertilized and deeply rooted with his son's sexual violation of me.





			
				Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Are you implying that there are two different types of homosexuality?


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## Honeyhips (May 3, 2005)

Oh ok.. I was just wondering.  I thought you might have been saying that people in his situation are the only ones who can be delivered. 





			
				natalied said:
			
		

> No. Just stating how Donnie addresses it. But I will say that people come to the homosexual lifestyles in different ways. Some people embrace it on their own, others are forced into it by rape and sexual abuse. Donnie implies that he was forced into homosexuality b/c of the rapes and he wasn't allowed to develop man/woman sexual feelings b/c of the trauma associated with those rapes.


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## scorpiogirl112184 (May 3, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> I heard rumors about this, but this just confirmed.  He is a strong man of God and a good example of the many changes that can take place in your life with Jesus on your side.  This story is very traggic.   I'm so sorry this happened to him.   This just confirms that "homosexuality" can be overcome.
> 
> Thank you for sharing this sbaker.



amen i agree
i close friend of mine was deliever from the same thing


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## Chivara (May 3, 2005)

Keike said:
			
		

> Was it overcome really?? Or is he just denying who he really is? Let me put it this way, who among us would marry a man who had "overcome" his homosexuality? Wait, Star Jones is not a member, is she? Haha.


 
My thoughts exactly.  I don't believe homosexuality can be overcome PERIOD.


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 3, 2005)

Even if a young boy at the age of 8 was raped?  TWICE? You can't see how he might not of went down that path if the rapes had never happened?  

I think trauma at that young age can affect people's lives profoundly and make them do things they might not have done in the absence of that trauma.



			
				Chivara said:
			
		

> My thoughts exactly.  I don't believe homosexuality can be overcome PERIOD.


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## Poohbear (May 3, 2005)

Chivara said:
			
		

> My thoughts exactly. I don't believe homosexuality can be overcome PERIOD.


Why not? God can deliever anyone from any kind of continual sin. You can't say that for ALL... Some may overcome it and some may not.


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## ShortyDooWhop (May 3, 2005)

When I heard his story I was somewhat torn, b/c there is such an outcry about the downlow phenom and aids, etc. However, when I think about the nature of God and who he uses, it is usually people who are "damaged goods". Think of Rahab, the harlot; or Jacob, the thief.... Bottom line, I think that God works all things out for the good of those that are called according to His name.Was it God's will that his brother followed him and got runned over, or that he was left alone with that uncle or cousin.... Who knows but God... But God knew that and still made a way for his deliverance.

There are soo many women who are raped or molested, touched, or "'damaged". Does that mean that those women should be cast away because someone took advantage of them in much the same way that someone took advantage of Donnie McClurkin? 

I hope and pray that what he says is true and that he has been healed. 
At the end of the day, though, I hope that above all else, he lives his life for God, trusting Him, and knowing that God turned the shame of his past into the promise of his future


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## Keike (May 3, 2005)

meka said:
			
		

> It is not a matter of overcoming so to speak, it is being delivered.  Homosexuality is a spirit.  No one is born gay, that is like someone saying that they were born a drug addict.  Please!!!  He has been delivered from homosexual tendencies.  God can do anything, it is all a matter of asking Him for it.  Would I marry a man like that, sure, because I don't doubt what God can do.  If God told me that a man like that was my husband, then my job is to be obedient.



Well, this is where we have a parting of the minds.  I want my husband 100% heterosexual.  Anyway I do think people are born gay, so we will just have to agree to disagree.  For the record, I do not think homosexuality is a sin so I am sure most of you think I am damned to hell anyway, hahaha.  That is alright, though .


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 3, 2005)

How would you explain bisexuals then?  I have a cousin and he goes both ways.  He says he doesn't believe he should restrict who he falls in love with based on gender.

He is 100% bi. He has made the choice to "love" whoever.  I've seen him happy with female partners and male partners.

For him, I think he CHOOSES to go both ways. 

I think some people are born that way BUT there are others who CHOOSE their lifestyle or that lifestyle is forced ont them by sexual abuse.  I think b/c of sin, we have jacked up our bodies. This is why some people have been born with the propensity for alcholism, violence, etc.  BUT I also believe people can be delivered from these propensities.

I've also read about women who do the opposite, they've been raped and cannot stand the idea of a man touching them and therefore seek romantic relationships with women only.

An acquantince of mine (friend of a friend) was raped by male family members throughout her childhood.  She happens to be black.  The way she deals with her rape, is that she will have nothing to do with black men.  The thought of being with one, brings memories of the rape.  She is now married to a white guy.  Would she have been so anti-black men if she hadn't been raped?

Sexual abuse can really alter someone's "path" in life.



			
				Keike said:
			
		

> Well, this is where we have a parting of the minds. I want my husband 100% heterosexual. Anyway I do think people are born gay, so we will just have to agree to disagree. For the record, I do not think homosexuality is a sin so I am sure most of you think I am damned to hell anyway, hahaha. That is alright, though .


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## blessedangil03 (May 3, 2005)

I got the chance to hear Donnie speak at a camp meeting in Auburndale, and all I got to say is that the man is anointed. He didn't even sing, he was there to bring the Word. There is nothing that God cannot do. There is nothing that His Spirit cannot help us overcome, and there is nothing that His saving grace cannot deliver us from.


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## Keike (May 3, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> How would you explain bisexuals then?  I have a cousin and he goes both ways.  He says he doesn't believe he should restrict who he falls in love with based on gender.
> 
> He is 100% bi. He has made the choice to "love" whoever.  I've seen him happy with female partners and male partners.
> 
> ...



I never professed to have an explanation for all types of sexuality.  I have no great insight into heterosexuality either, but I think people are also born heterosexual. I guess for some people yes, they do have a choice.  I do not think everyone does.  Your cousin obviously is choosing to do what makes him happy since he is happy with both men and women.  He could be happy then with a woman but is following his heart.  More power to him.  Anyway, I still think homosexuals are generally born that way.  Bisexuality is something different imo.


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## Janice (May 3, 2005)

blessedangil03 said:
			
		

> I got the chance to hear Donnie speak at a camp meeting in Auburndale, and all I got to say is that the man is anointed. He didn't even sing, he was there to bring the Word. There is nothing that God cannot do. There is nothing that His Spirit cannot help us overcome, and there is nothing that His saving grace cannot deliver us from.





Amen to that. To say that God cannot deliver anyone from homsexuality is doubting God's infinite power. He can do anything he wants as long as that person is willing and truly wants to be set free from this sin. If he can save people from terminal illnesses he can set people free from homsexuality and anything else he chooses. The key is that the person has to want the change and have the faith to believe God. 

Homosexuality is a bondage. Donnie desired to be released and so God granted him mercy. Contrary to popular belief, no one is born gay,... this is a lie from the world.Those that continue to by into this myth will never see victory. God's word is foundation and truth. From the beginning of times he created woman for man. Why would he set us up for sin? We take on the sinful nature of the world as we stray away from God and choose to trust our own ways thinking they will bring more pleasure to us.


God doesn't set us up for a path of destruction to fail if we are truly walking in his grace.And he will never force himself upon anyone that doesn't want to be changed or saved.


When Jesus died on that cross he took upon him every sin known to mankind and all the powers of those sins were broken. So the curse is broken and there are no excuses for anyone on judgement day. Donnie had enough faith to believe that he could be set free and he trusted God and was set free by God's grace and mercy.


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## Koffie (May 3, 2005)

I haven't read this whole thread, but I saw enough to make me respond. 

To all those saying that homosexuality cannot be overcome PERIOD, does that that mean that you do not believe that our God is sovereign enough to deliver a gay person from their sin?


Me personally, I do not doubt that God can deliver a homosexual, but I believe that some humans find it so IMPOSSIBLE, that they even begin to doubt God, and if you are doubting God, saying what HE can and can't do, then what does that say about where you are spiritually?


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## Honeyhips (May 3, 2005)

I believe you can be "born" gay in that it is a demonic spirit that can become present in the womb b/c of the family or rejection. I believe you can be both bi and sexually promiscuious (not trying to spell that right)w/ the opposite sex b/c it all stems from lust which can stem from rejection and hurt.  All of which you can be delivered from by God. Also, the devil is an imitator. He takes what God meant for good and distorts it. There are men and women who are born with no attraction to the opposite sex. But the devil will distort that tell them it isn't normal so they must be attracted to the same sex. Same with lust, if a person hasn't received real Love, or has been rejected they will seek to find it through a carnal desire, lust. Sexual pervision is an extreme attempt to get over rejection and find genuine love. 


Sexual abuse can defintiely alter someone life. But God can deliver anyone out of it. 

I think to understand homosexuality or all sex sin for that matter, or people period, you have to understand the spirtual realm. *Ephesians 6:12* - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


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## Koffie (May 3, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> I've also read about women who do the opposite, they've been raped and cannot stand the idea of a man touching them and therefore seek romantic relationships with women only.
> 
> An acquantince of mine (friend of a friend) was raped by male family members throughout her childhood.  She happens to be black.  The way she deals with her rape, is that she will have nothing to do with black men.  The thought of being with one, brings memories of the rape.  She is now married to a white guy.  Would she have been so anti-black men if she hadn't been raped?
> 
> Sexual abuse can really alter someone's "path" in life.




The people you speak of have not been healed from their trauma. I myself have been abused, and yes, I still deal with issues and painful memories in life. You are right about how it can have an effect on someone's life, becuase I am a living witness to it. Things like this can easily have a domino effect on your relationships in the later years. It is VERY hard to overcome something like this when you keep getting flashbacks and you are trying to progress. Its like, "well, I am the one who got assualted, but I reaped the pain."
And when you decide to ask God to put you where you need to be spiritually if all that hadn't have happened, it ain't pretty. 
That's when the arrows really get throwed at you. 

I still do not like nor respect, my assualter, but in the meanwhile I've decided to keep my mind on Jesus.
I know in my heart that He is a just God so I don't have to focus on the pain as much.


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## Koffie (May 3, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> *Ephesians 6:12* - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.



This is a verse that I always seem to wrestle with. I have always that that those 'spirits' that are in men to make them do bad things was a 'weird' concept. 

i.e. If I was raised in church and decided I now wanted to be the church harlet, then I could just blame a 'spirit' who got into me and made me do it? Or if a man raped a woman, then it's a spirit, and the man is a really great guy once that spirit is out of him?

'Cause then I could point out versus like, "The wicked are brought down by calamity" but, I thought there was no wicked, just evil spirits.

Forgive me ya'll, but in my mind it seems like an excuse for people who do wrong, and yes I know I need to overcome this thinking, but this is solely MY opinion and I am not going to blame a spirit for my mode of thinking.


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## Jewell (May 3, 2005)

I heard about this early this year or the end part of last year.


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## meka (May 3, 2005)

Keike said:
			
		

> Well, this is where we have a parting of the minds.  I want my husband 100% heterosexual.  Anyway I do think people are born gay, so we will just have to agree to disagree.  For the record, I do not think homosexuality is a sin so I am sure most of you think I am damned to hell anyway, hahaha.  That is alright, though .


Well since I am not God and can't send you to hell......it doesn't matter what I think : )


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## Keike (May 3, 2005)

Koffie said:
			
		

> I haven't read this whole thread, but I saw enough to make me respond.
> 
> To all those saying that homosexuality cannot be overcome PERIOD, does that that mean that you do not believe that our God is sovereign enough to deliver a gay person from their sin?
> 
> ...



Hahaha. I knew someone would attack my spirituality or my Christianity. To feel as you do, I would first have to think that homosexuality is a sin or something that has to be overcome. I do not. Therefore I do not think he "overcame" anything because imo there was nothing to overcome. It would be like me overcoming the sin of being black or being a woman. These are not sins, they are just what I am. Same with him. So I do not doubt God simply because I do not believe what you believe. haha. My faith is just as strong, thank you .  Be blessed.


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> I'm so sorry this happened to him.   This just confirms that "homosexuality" can be overcome.



If it wasn't there to begin with...


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

Keike said:
			
		

> Was it overcome really??  Or is he just denying who he really is?  Let me put it this way, who among us would marry a man who had "overcome" his homosexuality?  Wait, Star Jones is not a member, is she?  Haha.



Humpf!  Hello "sister"...  I agree!


----------



## Koffie (May 3, 2005)

Keike said:
			
		

> Hahaha. I knew someone would attack my spirituality or my Christianity. To feel as you do, I would first have to think that homosexuality is a sin or something that has to be overcome. I do not. Therefore I do not think he "overcame" anything because imo there was nothing to overcome. It would be like me overcoming the sin of being black or being a woman. These are not sins, they are just what I am. Same with him. So I do not doubt God simply because I do not believe what you believe. haha. My faith is just as strong, thank you .  Be blessed.




I am not attacking your spirituality, but I would like for you to know the truth. 

 I believe that if you think that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, then there is a problem.

The Bible clearly states it is wrong. 

Romans 1:26-27

26"Because of this, God gave them over to their shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. *Men commited indecent acts with one another and recieved in themselves the due penalty for their perversion"*

Not only does this tell me that homosexuality is wrong, but one will also be penalized.


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I believe he did overcome it.   God can deliver people.
> 
> Would I marry him, no, but I don't want to marry someone who was a heavy drug user either. It may not be his purpose in life to get married. IT doesn't mean he is not gay though.



Why wouldn't you marry him?  If God can deliver someone from homosexuality and HEAVY drug use (any drug use is my limit), why not be with him?

He's been delivered... right?  If the man is engaged, it must be his purpose in life TO marry.


----------



## Koffie (May 3, 2005)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> If it wasn't there to begin with...



There would be something else to over come. We all have our cross to bear.


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

meka said:
			
		

> It is not a matter of overcoming so to speak, it is being delivered.  Homosexuality is a spirit.  No one is born gay, that is like someone saying that they were born a drug addict.  Please!!!  He has been delivered from homosexual tendencies.  God can do anything, it is all a matter of asking Him for it.  Would I marry a man like that, sure, because I don't doubt what God can do.  If God told me that a man like that was my husband, then my job is to be obedient.



Just have him tested!  HIV/AIDS is real!  I haven't heard of anyone being delivered of that yet!

I disagree with people not being born addicted to drugs.  Happens every day, especially in the BLACK community.


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> uh oh....
> 
> Sidebar: Donnie specifically talks about overcoming homosexuality for those who were introduced to it by sexual abuse.



*snort*

Nuff said!

...and WHAT ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE?!?


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

scorpiogirl112184 said:
			
		

> amen i agree
> i close friend of mine was deliever from the same thing



All this talk of "deliverance" is making me wonder if it's not contributing to the widespread infection of HIV/AIDS in the black community... hhhhhmmmm...


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

Chivara said:
			
		

> My thoughts exactly.  I don't believe homosexuality can be overcome PERIOD.



You can't convince some folks, though.  I no longer try.


----------



## Keike (May 3, 2005)

Koffie said:
			
		

> I am not attacking your spirituality, but I would like for you to know the truth.
> 
> I believe that if you think that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, then there is a problem.
> 
> ...



Thank you but I am happy with my own preacher.  I appreciate your concern but I am a grown woman who is secure in my beliefs. No need to persuade me and I am not about to debate this issue with you. There is your truth, my truth and The truth.  By the time we know which is which, it really will not matter for purposes of this discussion. Be blessed dear.


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

Keike said:
			
		

> Well, this is where we have a parting of the minds.  I want my husband 100% heterosexual.  Anyway I do think people are born gay, so we will just have to agree to disagree.  For the record, I do not think homosexuality is a sin so I am sure most of you think I am damned to hell anyway, hahaha.  That is alright, though .



Heehee!  Why can't people be born gay?  If they can be born STRAIGHT!

I'm with you on that point!   No comment on if it's a "sin" or not.  Religion steps in the way, and I can't proceed any farther


----------



## MomofThreeBoys (May 3, 2005)

Yes, you focus on Him and his love for you.  Praise God, one day we will be in glory where they will be no more pain or suffering.  And this dreadful world, will be made new.  And we will be new creatures in Christ!

You are wise beyond your years Koffie.  I know God must have some big things planned for you b/c you are a living witness to the power of God!  You are an intelligent articulate black woman who's overcome her circumstance. 

Keep your eyes on Him and I have no doubt you will accomplish great things! I'll be praying for you 



			
				Koffie said:
			
		

> The people you speak of have not been healed from their trauma. I myself have been abused, and yes, I still deal with issues and painful memories in life. You are right about how it can have an effect on someone's life, becuase I am a living witness to it. Things like this can easily have a domino effect on your relationships in the later years. It is VERY hard to overcome something like this when you keep getting flashbacks and you are trying to progress. Its like, "well, I am the one who got assualted, but I reaped the pain."
> And when you decide to ask God to put you where you need to be spiritually if all that hadn't have happened, it ain't pretty.
> That's when the arrows really get throwed at you.
> 
> ...


----------



## Keike (May 3, 2005)

meka said:
			
		

> Well since I am not God and can't send you to hell......it doesn't matter what I think : )



So true . You seem to presume that God is biding his time waiting to send me to hell but I digress. Thank you for agreeing to disagree lol.


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> How would you explain bisexuals then?  I have a cousin and he goes both ways.  He says he doesn't believe he should restrict who he falls in love with based on gender.
> 
> He is 100% bi. He has made the choice to "love" whoever.  I've seen him happy with female partners and male partners.
> 
> For him, I think he CHOOSES to go both ways.



He CHOOSES to do that, though.  Are we talking about what turns us on or a lifestyle?  They are NOT the same!  

A person might be attracted to both sexes but because society has taught us we need to be ONE way, we are not going to go and set up shop with someone of the same sex.  

Your cousin is very courageous, along with millions of others in his situation.  He is bisexual and a very strong individual to step out and let the world know what he is.  At least he's not on the "down low or the low down" deceiving his partners right and left.



			
				natalied said:
			
		

> I think some people are born that way BUT there are others who CHOOSE their lifestyle or that lifestyle is forced ont them by sexual abuse.  I think b/c of sin, we have jacked up our bodies. This is why some people have been born with the propensity for alcholism, violence, etc.  BUT I also believe people can be delivered from these propensities.



These are just excuses.  Excuses for people to do what THEY want, but yet look to blame something or someone for their choices, because they know to do anything outside of what society says is "normal" means automatic persecution!


----------



## Koffie (May 3, 2005)

Keike said:
			
		

> Thank you but I am happy with my own preacher.  I appreciate your concern but I am a grown woman who is secure in my beliefs. No need to persuade me and I am not about to debate this issue with you. There is your truth, my truth and The truth.  By the time we know which is which, it really will not matter for purposes of this discussion. Be blessed dear.



No -Thank you , and I hope for you to be blessed, but honestly, I don't have a truth, the truth that I follow is based out of the BIBLE, and that is why I posted that scripture, because it is God's word not mines. But either way, be blessed.


----------



## Koffie (May 3, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> Yes, you focus on Him and his love for you.  Praise God, one day we will be in glory where they will be no more pain or suffering.  And this dreadful world, will be made new.  And we will be new creatures in Christ!
> 
> You are wise beyond your years Koffie.  I know God must have some big things planned for you b/c you are a living witness to the power of God!  You are an intelligent articulate black woman who's overcome her circumstance.
> 
> Keep your eyes on Him and I have no doubt you will accomplish great things! I'll be praying for you



Thanks natalied.


----------



## mahogany (May 3, 2005)

Keike said:
			
		

> Thank you but I am happy with my own preacher.  I appreciate your concern but I am a grown woman who is secure in my beliefs. No need to persuade me and I am not about to debate this issue with you. There is your truth, my truth and The truth.  By the time we know which is which, it really will not matter for purposes of this discussion. Be blessed dear.




Well if it is in the bible wouldn't that be THE TRUTH?


----------



## Koffie (May 3, 2005)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> Just have him tested!  HIV/AIDS is real!  I haven't heard of anyone being delivered of that yet!



even if you marry a heterosexual man who isn't a virgin, then he should be tested also.  AIDS doesn't discriminate based on sexual preference.


----------



## Koffie (May 3, 2005)

mahogany said:
			
		

> Well if it is in the bible wouldn't that be THE TRUTH?



My sentiments exactly, but I will no longer stress the point of what I am trying to say to her, because I have spoken, and I feel as though I did my part. If she is not willing to recieve it, then that blood is now on her hands.


----------



## Honeyhips (May 3, 2005)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> Why wouldn't you marry him? If God can deliver someone from homosexuality and HEAVY drug use (any drug use is my limit), why not be with him?
> 
> He's been delivered... right? *If the man is engaged*, it must be his purpose in life TO marry.


Not everyone who gets married is in God's will.  

But to answer the previous questions.  Not wanting to marry someone liket hat is just my preference. It isn't about me thinking they haven't been delivered.  I also don't want to marry a white man, a man who has a child, or a man who has been divorced. I also don't want to marry an alcoholic, or a man who was a ho' byt the worlds standards.  This is all about HH though, and my own limited thinking.  If God choses someone like that for me, then I'll do it.


----------



## Honeyhips (May 3, 2005)

No, unprotected sex and dishonesty is. 





			
				Blossssom said:
			
		

> All this talk of "deliverance" is making me wonder if it's not contributing to the widespread infection of HIV/AIDS in the black community... hhhhhmmmm...


----------



## Honeyhips (May 3, 2005)

Why don't you just learn to respect someone elses opinion, regardless if you agree or not. No need to belittle what they think. 





			
				Blossssom said:
			
		

> You can't convince some folks, though. I no longer try.


----------



## Blossssom (May 3, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Not everyone who gets married is in God's will.
> 
> But to answer the previous questions.  Not wanting to marry someone liket hat is just my preference. It isn't about me thinking they haven't been delivered.  I also don't want to marry a white man, a man who has a child, or a man who has been divorced. I also don't want to marry an alcoholic, or a man who was a ho' byt the worlds standards.  This is all about HH though, and my own limited thinking.  If God choses someone like that for me, then I'll do it.



But I thought that was what we were discussing.  Someone being delivered from homosexuality, through God, and if the person later finds themself engaged to a person of the opposite sex, of course, wouldn't that event be blessed by God?


----------



## Honeyhips (May 3, 2005)

Blossssom said:
			
		

> These are just excuses. Excuses for people to do what THEY want, but yet look to blame something or someone for their choices, because they know to do anything outside of what society says is "normal" means automatic persecution!


 No one in here is persecutting anyone. I have nothing against gay men. I've hung out with some. (doesn't that sound like my best friend is black  ). Just like I hang out with people who are not virgins, and etc...


----------



## Enchantmt (May 4, 2005)

As a Christian the rules for relationship/sex/homosexuality/fornication are spelled out without any room for interpretation. Man may come up with their own reasoning in order to do what they would want to do, but Gods word is absolute. His kingdom is not a democracy. He doesnt care that you or I say if two folx love each other they should be together regardless. "There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to destruction." Homosexuality is a sin to the Christian faith, no greater or lesser than any other sin. As such, one can be delivered from it. Like any other sin, the believer has responsibility as well. They are to immerse themselves in Gods word in order to have "the mind of Christ" and be strengthened and avoid situations that would lead them to backslide. Will an area one has been delivered from always be a weakness? For some yes, for others no. We are not perfect and even though God gives us the power to be free, we can fall back into a sin. No one is perfect. I realize that there are those present who do not feel that homosexuality is a sin, and that is your right. This however is the_ Christianity_ forum, and for Christians, based on the word of God, this is not something that is up for debate. 

Lets keep this civil ladies.


----------



## JuJuBoo (May 4, 2005)

Enchantmt said:
			
		

> As a Christian the rules for relationship/sex/homosexuality/fornication are spelled out without any room for interpretation. Man may come up with their own reasoning in order to do what they would want to do, but Gods word is absolute. His kingdom is not a democracy. He doesnt care that you or I say if two folx love each other they should be together regardless. "There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to destruction." Homosexuality is a sin to the Christian faith, no greater or lesser than any other sin. As such, one can be delivered from it. Like any other sin, the believer has responsibility as well. They are to immerse themselves in Gods word in order to have "the mind of Christ" and be strengthened and avoid situations that would lead them to backslide. Will an area one has been delivered from always be a weakness? For some yes, for others no. We are not perfect and even though God gives us the power to be free, we can fall back into a sin. No one is perfect. I realize that there are those present who do not feel that homosexuality is a sin, and that is your right. This however is the_ Christianity_ forum, and for Christians, based on the word of God, this is not something that is up for debate.
> 
> Lets keep this civil ladies.







Couldn't have said it ANY better. You better QUOTE some Word! "There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to destruction." 

 The whole post was on point. *WELL SAID*


----------



## Enchantmt (May 4, 2005)

Koffie said:
			
		

> _Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places_
> 
> This is a verse that I always seem to wrestle with. I have always that that those 'spirits' that are in men to make them do bad things was a 'weird' concept.
> 
> ...



Men have free will but we also need to be aware that people can be influenced by demonic forces. An example I read once is that if someone throws a hammer at you are you going to attack hammer or the person who threw it?  If you attack the hammer you are an idiot. The one that threw the hammer is just going to sit back and laugh and continue to throw more hammers.

That doesnt mean not to confront people who do you harm or to not seek justice against them. This doesnt mean that the folx Satan is able to maniuplate arent held accountable for their actions, but we need to step back and see what the real issues are and address the REAL enemy.

There is a spiritual hierarchy in place that Christians need to be aware of to be victorious. Things we need to address in prayer and on a spiritual level. There is more to life than what our 5 senses can perceive. When you are feeling depressed, it could just be something physical but it could also be a spirtual attack, one that could possibly lead you into isolation and a downward spiral hard to recover from, when you should be out being a light for someone.


----------



## Enchantmt (May 4, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> Couldn't have said it ANY better. You better QUOTE some Word! "There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to destruction."
> 
> The whole post was on point. *WELL SAID*


----------



## Honeyhips (May 4, 2005)

Enchantmt said:
			
		

> As a Christian the rules for relationship/sex/homosexuality/fornication are spelled out without any room for interpretation. Man may come up with their own reasoning in order to do what they would want to do, but Gods word is absolute. His kingdom is not a democracy. He doesnt care that you or I say if two folx love each other they should be together regardless. "There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to destruction." Homosexuality is a sin to the Christian faith, no greater or lesser than any other sin. As such, one can be delivered from it. Like any other sin, the believer has responsibility as well. They are to immerse themselves in Gods word in order to have "the mind of Christ" and be strengthened and avoid situations that would lead them to backslide. Will an area one has been delivered from always be a weakness? For some yes, for others no. We are not perfect and even though God gives us the power to be free, we can fall back into a sin. No one is perfect. I realize that there are those present who do not feel that homosexuality is a sin, and that is your right. This however is the_ Christianity_ forum, and for Christians, based on the word of God, this is not something that is up for debate.
> 
> Lets keep this civil ladies.


 Wow. you articulated that so well.     

I do wonder why people think that homosexuality is not a sin. Maybe that should be discussed in the off topics forum?  Where do we discuss stuff like that.


----------



## Honeyhips (May 4, 2005)

I held off explaining this one b/c I wanted it to make sense. You did it brilliantly! 



			
				Enchantmt said:
			
		

> Men have free will but we also need to be aware that people can be influenced by demonic forces. An example I read once is that if someone throws a hammer at you are you going to attack hammer or the person who threw it? If you attack the hammer you are an idiot. The one that threw the hammer is just going to sit back and laugh and continue to throw more hammers.
> 
> That doesnt mean not to confront people who do you harm or to not seek justice against them. *This doesnt mean that the folx Satan is able to maniuplate arent held accountable for their actions, but we need to step back and see what the real issues are and address the REAL enemy.*
> 
> *There is a spiritual hierarchy in place that Christians need to be aware of to be victorious*. Things we need to address in prayer and on a spiritual level. There is more to life than what our 5 senses can perceive. When you are feeling depressed, it could just be something physical but it could also be a spirtual attack, one that could possibly lead you into isolation and a downward spiral hard to recover from, when you should be out being a light for someone.


----------



## zora (May 4, 2005)

wow, Enchantmt, that was deep


----------



## Keike (May 4, 2005)

Enchantmt said:
			
		

> As a Christian the rules for relationship/sex/homosexuality/fornication are spelled out without any room for interpretation. Man may come up with their own reasoning in order to do what they would want to do, but Gods word is absolute. His kingdom is not a democracy. He doesnt care that you or I say if two folx love each other they should be together regardless. "There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to destruction." Homosexuality is a sin to the Christian faith, no greater or lesser than any other sin. As such, one can be delivered from it. Like any other sin, the believer has responsibility as well. They are to immerse themselves in Gods word in order to have "the mind of Christ" and be strengthened and avoid situations that would lead them to backslide. Will an area one has been delivered from always be a weakness? For some yes, for others no. We are not perfect and even though God gives us the power to be free, we can fall back into a sin. No one is perfect. I realize that there are those present who do not feel that homosexuality is a sin, and that is your right. This however is the_ Christianity_ forum, and for Christians, based on the word of God, this is not something that is up for debate.
> 
> Lets keep this civil ladies.



So once again my faith is questioned? Never mind. Be blessed ladies. I guess it is not hard to be blessed once you appoint yourself Lord and Savior. I will go back to frequenting this board far less. Women here do not know how to agree to disagree. There must always be one last dig so have at it. You will forgive me if I refrain from reading it .


----------



## beverly (May 4, 2005)

Actually there have been people who have been delivered from HIV. I believe Magic Johnson is one of them, but he doesnt want to say. He is still being intimate with his wife, and is healthier than me, and this man has had HIV since I was 13, and I am almost 30 now. I do know of a lady that has been delivere from HIV. There are numerous people who have tested HIV positive, had signs an symptoms, and today have HIV negative results, with out the symptoms, and the medical doctors don't have any explanation for it. God can do all things

Also, to answer the question about being born gay, the answer is yes - in a sense. We all are born of a sinful nature, however once you let that sinful nature take over, then that is when it leads to that persons destruction.

For every action there is a reaction. Sin = destruction and death. Don't you all think it is very strange how HIV first appeared in the gay community, there are consequences when you violate Gods laws. Ultimately we all suffer when we don't follow Gods law, that why we all must make people accountable for there actions.

Keike, I don't think anyone is attacking you. Since this is a Christian forum, most of us here believe ALL of what it is the bible. And the bible very clear on homosexual behavior, just as homosexuality is a sin, so is stealing, lying, etc. Its very frustrating when people say they are Christian, such as homosexuals, or condone that behavior, but then totally skip the parts of the bible that they dont want to hear. If you don't believe in Christianity it a person right, but people who really love the Lord don't like him to be be made a mocary of, like using something he instutitued, such as marriage to suit there own purpose. That won't work with the Lord.


----------



## options (May 4, 2005)

beverly said:
			
		

> Actually there have been people who have been delivered from HIV. I believe Magic Johnson is one of them, but he doesnt want to say. He is still being intimate with his wife, and is healthier than me, and this man has had HIV since I was 13, and I am almost 30 now. I do know of a lady that has been delivere from HIV. There are numerous people who have tested HIV positive, had signs an symptoms, and today have HIV negative results, with out the symptoms, and the medical doctors don't have any explanation for it. God can do all things
> 
> Also, to answer the question about being born gay, the answer is yes - in a sense. We all are born of a sinful nature, however once you let that sinful nature take over, then that is when it leads to that persons destruction.
> 
> ...



I agree that some people have been healed from HIV, too. I don't know the means for all of them, whether it is a mixture of divine intervention and health/treatment choices, but I have read stories of this occurring. 

One caveat though: HIV did not first appear in the gay community. Perhaps it did in the U.S., but globally, HIV is largely a heterosexual phenomenon.


----------



## webby (May 4, 2005)

sbaker, thank you for posting this. I had always wondered about his life. From the first time I saw him I suspected he was gay, but never knew that he struggled so, from such an early age. 

@ enchmnt - I applaud every word you said


----------



## beverly (May 4, 2005)

Thanks options, I guess I should have said that it first appeared widespread in the heterosexual community. In the early 80's it was originally labeled by doctors as  "the gay cancer", since that was what the doctors thought it was. That was the community that it affected 1st on a widespread basis.


----------



## Enchantmt (May 4, 2005)

Keike said:
			
		

> So once again my faith is questioned? Never mind. Be blessed ladies. I guess it is not hard to be blessed once you appoint yourself Lord and Savior. I will go back to frequenting this board far less. Women here do not know how to agree to disagree. There must always be one last dig so have at it. You will forgive me if I refrain from reading it .



I am not questioning your or any one elses faith. I'm explaining the Christian doctrine concerning homosexuality. I apologize if it came off as a personal attack. That was not my intention.


----------



## Chivara (May 4, 2005)

beverly said:
			
		

> Actually there have been people who have been delivered from HIV. I believe Magic Johnson is one of them, but he doesnt want to say. He is still being intimate with his wife, and is healthier than me, and this man has had HIV since I was 13, and I am almost 30 now. I do know of a lady that has been delivere from HIV. There are numerous people who have tested HIV positive, had signs an symptoms, and today have HIV negative results, with out the symptoms, and the medical doctors don't have any explanation for it. God can do all things
> 
> Also, to answer the question about being born gay, the answer is yes - in a sense. We all are born of a sinful nature, however once you let that sinful nature take over, then that is when it leads to that persons destruction.
> 
> ...


 
There is no way that anyone can be delivered from HIV.  HIV is a virus and there is no way that viruses can be cured.  They remain in your body for life.  They may be testing negative b/c they have fewer antibodies or some other reason, but believe me, it's still there.


----------



## Honeyhips (May 4, 2005)

Are you in the medical field?





			
				Chivara said:
			
		

> There is no way that anyone can be delivered from HIV. HIV is a virus and there is no way that viruses can be cured. They remain in your body for life. They may be testing negative b/c they have fewer antibodies or some other reason, but believe me, it's still there.


----------



## beverly (May 4, 2005)

If you take a test, and it shows that you do not have any antibodies to it, then you no longer have it. The lady that I am referring to, this did happen too. The doctors can not explain it.


----------



## Honeyhips (May 4, 2005)

she was not tryinig to get any last digs on you.  And I apologize if I made you feel that I was questioning your faith. I just wanted to understand where you were coming from. 





			
				Keike said:
			
		

> So once again my faith is questioned? Never mind. Be blessed ladies. I guess it is not hard to be blessed once you appoint yourself Lord and Savior. I will go back to frequenting this board far less. Women here do not know how to agree to disagree. There must always be one last dig so have at it. You will forgive me if I refrain from reading it .


----------



## MomofThreeBoys (May 4, 2005)

Chivara said:
			
		

> There is no way that anyone can be delivered from HIV. HIV is a virus and there is no way that viruses can be cured. They remain in your body for life. They may be testing negative b/c they have fewer antibodies or some other reason, but believe me, it's still there.



Why not?  Didn't Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead?  Did he not heal countless people with leprosy?  R U saying that God is not able to heal in this day in age? I have family and friends who have been delivered from Cancer, strokes, diabetes, and countless other ailments. My cousin is an ER physician and he has COUNTLESS stories of how doctors have not been able explain how some people recover from terminal illnesses.


----------



## sithembile (May 4, 2005)

Enchantmt said:
			
		

> As a Christian the rules for relationship/sex/homosexuality/fornication are spelled out without any room for interpretation. Man may come up with their own reasoning in order to do what they would want to do, but Gods word is absolute. His kingdom is not a democracy. He doesnt care that you or I say if two folx love each other they should be together regardless. "There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to destruction." Homosexuality is a sin to the Christian faith, no greater or lesser than any other sin. As such, one can be delivered from it. Like any other sin, the believer has responsibility as well. They are to immerse themselves in Gods word in order to have "the mind of Christ" and be strengthened and avoid situations that would lead them to backslide. Will an area one has been delivered from always be a weakness? For some yes, for others no. We are not perfect and even though God gives us the power to be free, we can fall back into a sin. No one is perfect. I realize that there are those present who do not feel that homosexuality is a sin, and that is your right. This however is the_ Christianity_ forum, and for Christians, based on the word of God, this is not something that is up for debate.
> 
> Lets keep this civil ladies.



Amen and Amen.


----------



## Chivara (May 4, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Are you in the medical field?


 
You don't have to be in the medical field to know that viruses cannot be cured. I learned that in science class in middle school.  I thought that was common knowledge.

*Treatment*

HIV is a chronic medical condition that can be treated, but not yet cured. There are effective means of preventing complications and delaying, but not preventing, progression to AIDS. At the present time, not all persons infected with HIV have progressed to AIDS, but time has shown that the vast majority do. People with HIV infection need to receive education about the disease and treatment so that they can be active partners in decision making with their health care provider.

Antiretroviral regimens are complex, have serious side effects, pose difficulty with adherence, and carry serious potential consequences from the development of viral resistance because of nonadherence to the drug regimen or suboptimal levels of antiretroviral agents. Patient education and involvement in therapeutic decisions are critical. Treatment should usually be offered to all patients with symptoms ascribed to HIV infection. Recommendations for offering antiretroviral therapy among asymptomatic patients require analysis of real and potential risks and benefits. Panel on Clinical Practices for Treatment of HIV. (Dybul _et al_ 2002) A combination of several antiretroviral agents, termed Highly Active Anti-Retroviral Therapy HAART, has been highly effective in *reducing the number of HIV particles in the blood stream* (as measured by a blood test called the viral load). This can improve T-cell counts. This is not a cure for HIV, and people on HAART with suppressed levels of HIV can still transmit the virus to others through sex or sharing of needles. There is good evidence that if the levels of HIV remain suppressed and the CD4 count remains greater than 200, then life and quality of life can be significantly prolonged and improved.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV#Treatment


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## Chivara (May 4, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> Why not? Didn't Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead? Did he not heal countless people with leprosy? R U saying that God is not able to heal in this day in age? I have family and friends who have been delivered from Cancer, strokes, diabetes, and countless other ailments. My cousin is an ER physician and he has COUNTLESS stories of how doctors have not been able explain how some people recover from terminal illnesses.


 
All of the ailments that you have listed above are not viruses.  Science shows that there are no cure for viruses.  And yes I am saying that God can't heal people from viruses if that's the way you want to put it.  He can prolong their life and enable them to lead a happy life, but if it were that simple, I'm sure there weren't be so many people to die from AIDS.  Someone with HIV may live to be sixty or seventy years old through God's will, but they will still have HIV.


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## NewlyNature12 (May 4, 2005)

I believe that God is omnipotent, meaning that if it is in His will to remove a virus from someone's body, even if it's HIV, He can do it. Even though those diseases weren't viruses, they are still very damaging to the body.  God healed/cured those people, so why wouldn't He be able to cure HIV?  Isn't that the point of Him being almighty God???


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## Sweet C (May 4, 2005)

Camille429 said:
			
		

> I believe that God is omnipotent, meaning that if it is in His will to remove a virus from someone's body, even if it's HIV, He can do it. Even though those diseases weren't viruses, they are still very damaging to the body. God healed/cured those people, so why wouldn't He be able to cure HIV? Isn't that the point of Him being almighty God???


 
Amen to that!  Actually if you study the history of science, you will see that science is purely based on trial and error.  Despite popular opinion, nothing is fact b/c it is subject to be changed once a theory (statement that are highly regarded and ACCEPTED as true) is disproven.  For example, during the time of Columbus, science believed that the world was flat and if you went to far you would fall off.  By him sailing to America, that killed that theory, so all of science at that time was redeveloped in order to accomodate Columbus' discovery.  As of now, science says that a virus can't be cured, but God says that he is able to exceedingly and abundantly above all you can ask or think (Eph 3:20).

Praise Him!


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## beverly (May 4, 2005)

Yes the God I serve does do exceeding above all, thanks for reminding us of that scripture. I believe he has cured people from HIV in the past, and he will continue to do so in the future, if it is his will. Beverly


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## sugaplum (May 4, 2005)

Koffie said:
			
		

> I haven't read this whole thread, but I saw enough to make me respond.
> 
> To all those saying that homosexuality cannot be overcome PERIOD, does that that mean that you do not believe that our God is sovereign enough to deliver a gay person from their sin?
> 
> ...



ITA, Koffie.


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## honeisos (May 4, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> Even if a young boy at the age of 8 was raped?  TWICE? You can't see how he might not of went down that path if the rapes had never happened?
> 
> I think trauma at that young age can affect people's lives profoundly and make them do things they might not have done in the absence of that trauma.




You hit it on the head ... 
when you are sexaully abused as a child .. It destroys you .. you are not the same person younwere before ... and when puberty hits .. it can be very confusing... you already know about sex ... and don't know what to do with the infomation .. you are  shamed into hiding the sercret of rape and abuse  .

How in the world do you have a chance .. to grow in to being who you are supposed to be... You Don't ... unless you get help...or until you get help..


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## Honeyhips (May 4, 2005)

All I asked was a simple question. 





			
				Chivara said:
			
		

> You don't have to be in the medical field to know that viruses cannot be cured. I learned that in science class in middle school. I thought that was common knowledge.
> 
> *Treatment*
> 
> ...


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## JuJuBoo (May 5, 2005)

Chivara said:
			
		

> All of the ailments that you have listed above are not viruses.  Science shows that there are no cure for viruses.  And yes I am saying that God can't heal people from viruses if that's the way you want to put it.  He can prolong their life and enable them to lead a happy life, but if it were that simple, I'm sure there weren't be so many people to die from AIDS.  Someone with HIV may live to be sixty or seventy years old through God's will, but they will still have HIV.



honestly, it's very saddening to hear you say that.  Science says A *LOT* of things. Science says that something can't be created out of nothing, but God did that--OBVIOUSLY, we're HERE, so He had to have done it.  Science says you can't raise a man from the dead too, but Christ did that. Shoot, there are missionaries in Africa raising people from the dead in Jesus' name AS WE SPEAK! 

God doesn't give a FLIP about what "science" says. Shoot, he uses science for His GLORY if anything. Science says "you can't do this" and He'll DO IT just to show that He's *ALMIGHTY GOD!* Why were healing miracles such a large part of Christ's ministry? It defied NATURAL LAWS, and brought GLORY to the Father. 

If you don't think God can heal...man...what DO you think God can do? Healing is SIMPLE in my book! And I ask that out of simple curiosity, because He's not "God" if He can't operate in the supernatural.


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## Koffie (May 6, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> honestly, it's very saddening to hear you say that.  Science says A *LOT* of things. Science says that something can't be created out of nothing, but God did that--OBVIOUSLY, we're HERE, so He had to have done it.  Science says you can't raise a man from the dead too, but Christ did that. Shoot, there are missionaries in Africa raising people from the dead in Jesus' name AS WE SPEAK!
> 
> God doesn't give a FLIP about what "science" says. Shoot, he uses science for His GLORY if anything. Science says "you can't do this" and He'll DO IT just to show that He's *ALMIGHTY GOD!* Why were healing miracles such a large part of Christ's ministry? It defied NATURAL LAWS, and brought GLORY to the Father.
> 
> If you don't think God can heal...man...what DO you think God can do? Healing is SIMPLE in my book! And I ask that out of simple curiosity, because He's not "God" if He can't operate in the supernatural.




Exaaaaactly!


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## sugaplum (May 6, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> honestly, it's very saddening to hear you say that.  Science says A *LOT* of things. Science says that something can't be created out of nothing, but God did that--OBVIOUSLY, we're HERE, so He had to have done it.  Science says you can't raise a man from the dead too, but Christ did that. Shoot, there are missionaries in Africa raising people from the dead in Jesus' name AS WE SPEAK!
> 
> God doesn't give a FLIP about what "science" says. Shoot, he uses science for His GLORY if anything. Science says "you can't do this" and He'll DO IT just to show that He's *ALMIGHTY GOD!* Why were healing miracles such a large part of Christ's ministry? It defied NATURAL LAWS, and brought GLORY to the Father.
> 
> If you don't think God can heal...man...what DO you think God can do? Healing is SIMPLE in my book! And I ask that out of simple curiosity, because He's not "God" if He can't operate in the supernatural.



ITA JuJu Boo.


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## LatterGlory (Jul 29, 2010)

__________________


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## missusM (Aug 1, 2010)

to the person that said, show me the ppl delivered from hiv/aids..... I will,  about 10 to 15 men in our  ( my old church in london, pentecostal) church were gay, all of them are married and happy. Thats not to say that they are not tempted by it in certain seasons, but the bible is clear on that, that if you resist the devil he will flee from you, if but for a time.   One of them had full blown aids and got delivered from it right there in front of me. I believe that with God all things are possible.  As for homosexuality not being a sin, I'm not sure where you read that, but according to ANY bible I read, It SUre IS!   

Donnie Mclurkin is a wonderful man of God who has not fully overcome his homosexuality as yet, he has had periods of success, and at other times not so much.  This is why we all press toward the mark of the high calling in christ, its the hope of perfection in him that makes us press, not i'm going to compromise with no repentance and hope that God will just accept my mess.

I do think that homosexuality is bashed by the christian community relentlessy, i say, let god be the judge on these folks, some of them ,yes we know their sin, but  its God who sees their heart, we are going to have a few shocks on the day of judgement when God allows some in and not others.  just be compassionate is all I say.

the focus should be on being holy, consecrated, doing gods will, showing love, giving love, having faith that god is who he says he is:  I know that Jezebel spirit, and all the religious spirits run rampant in  churches in America, deal with that first, time is running out.


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