# 4-year-old Dies From Flu After Members Of Anti-vax Facebook Group Advise His Mom To Use Thyme And El



## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 8, 2020)

This week, the state of Colorado suffered its second pediatric flu death of the season. The first, in January, was a school-aged child outside the Denver metro area. The second, according to the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, was a 4-year-old boy from Pueblo.

Now, just days after his death, questions are swirling about whether more could have been done to save him amid reports that his mother followed misguided advice from members of an online anti-vaccine group.

Four-year-old Najee's mother told CBS affiliate KKTV that her son was a vibrant boy who always made people laugh.


"He was the light of everybody's day," she said. "He's full of joy, full of energy, has the most beautiful smile with his super deep dimples."






4-year-old Najee, known as Junior, who died of the flu in Colorado on Wednesday.CBS DENVER
In early February, two of Najee's brothers tested positive for influenza. And according to a GoFundMe set up by the family, Najee's mother took his 10-month-old brother to the emergency room with a fever of 104 degrees. Upon their return home, she gave the boys baths and sent 4-year-old Najee and his 5-year-old brother to their room to put on pajamas.

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Minutes later, the 5-year-old came out and told his mother that "Junior," as Najee's family affectionately called him, was asleep. His mother then discovered him lying on the floor, pale, where he had apparently suffered a febrile seizure as a result of a flu-related fever. 

She called 911 and started CPR. Najee was eventually airlifted to a hospital in Colorado Springs. According to the family's GoFundMe, Najee was taken off life support on Wednesday.

Now, screenshots from an anti-vax Facebook group called "Stop Mandatory Vaccination" are circulating online, and they appear to show that the week before Najee died, his mother sought advice on how to treat her sons' illness. Members of the group advised giving the boys vitamins, botanicals, and fruits and vegetables rather than the Tamiflu that their doctor prescribed.

In the thread, which has now apparently been scrubbed from the group's Facebook page, the mom wrote, "The doc prescribed tamaflu [sic] I did not pick it up." One user advises, "You're better off taking Vitamin D and C, Elderberry, Zinc, and eating lots of fruits and vegetables." 

"Ok perfect I'll try that," she responds. 


The posts were first obtained by NBC Newsand the Colorado Times Recorder, which did not publish the mother's name. 





THE MONTOYA AND JACKSON FAMILY VIA GOFUNDME
Later in the conversation, which can still be viewed in screenshots published by the Colorado Times Recorder, the panicked mother notes that she has been using the elderberry, peppermint oil and Vitamin C that the group members recommended, but her sons' fevers are still not breaking.

"Any other tips I'm terrified for another seizure," she writes. "Please no hard comments I am a momma freaking out all alone in this with a family who believes in none natural ways so I'm going through alone and they are making me feel bad for not putting him on Tamiflu."

"Boil thyme on the stove," a group member chimes in. "Vit C until diarrhea." 

The group, which has more than 178,000 members and 10,000 posts in the last 30 days alone, is run by a self-proclaimed "advocate for natural living" named Larry Cook, whose website slogan is, "Vaccines don't save lives, healthy immune systems do!"


The family did not want to comment to KKTV about whether Najee had gotten a flu shot, but the mother mentioned in the Facebook exchange that two of her other sick children had not. Research has shown that most children who die from the flu had not been vaccinated.

After news of Najee's death broke, Cook took to his Facebook group to put the blame on Children's Hospital Colorado Springs for the tragic outcome.

"Mom says they were treated poorly by the hospital, and of course, never offered any real treatments that would have likely cured her boy," he wrote.

"EXACTLY!!" one of the group's members responded. "You just have to nourish the body which hospitals do not do. They just poison."

The question rippling through social media today, however, is whether the true poison in this case was the misguided advice offered to a very sick boy's mother.


"I'm hurting so bad right now and so is his dad and brothers," Najee's mother told KKTV 11 News on Thursday. "Our whole family is hurting and it feels like we failed him because we did what we had to do."


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## Laela (Feb 8, 2020)

I was saddened to read that story earlier this week.... to lose a child, esp that young. My condolences to the family... Looks like they did all they could to keep him healthy!


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## Laela (Feb 8, 2020)

And another thing, with this Corona-beer virus "scare".. we fail to realize more Americans are dying from the flu each year, with the young being esp susceptible. These are just some of the deaths and illnesses I've found on the Net already.  My heart goes out to their families..


4  year old dies of flu in Alabama; little brother recovering 

11-year-old dies in Ohio

Flu blinds 4 year old in Iowa

Flu kills healthy NC teen

13 year old SC girl dies from flu complications

16 year 0ld Ohio teen succumbs to flu

Idaho teen dies 2 weeks after flu treatment

2 Utah Military Academy teens die of flu

Dallas teen succumbs to the flu

Massachusetts confirms 1st child death of flu season


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## Black Ambrosia (Feb 8, 2020)

Laela said:


> And another thing, with this Corona-beer virus "scare".. we fail to realize more Americans are dying from the flu each year, with the young being esp susceptible. These are just some of the deaths and illnesses I've found on the Net already.  My heart goes out to their families..


I hear you but it's not fair to compare this virus to the flu when it's still unclear how infectious it is and how quickly it's spreading. The numbers could end up being much worse than the flu but we won't know that for awhile.


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## Black Ambrosia (Feb 8, 2020)

I don't have a position on vaccines but tend to prefer holistic solutions to health challenges. I remember years ago I started seeing a new doctor and had bloodwork done. The office called the next day and told me they wanted to re-do the bloodwork because they were concerned about the results. It showed I was severely anemic, which I'd been dealing with for awhile, and my levels were dangerously low. My acupuncturist told me not to get a blood transfusion and it was my intention to refuse it once the second set of results came back but seeing the concern and lightweight panic in the doctor's eyes at the office and later at the ER made me change my mind. It's hard to imagine any parent would refuse treatment knowing that death is a possibility. It's different before somebody gets sick but, once they are, I expect people to do what's necessary to save the child.


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## Keen (Feb 8, 2020)

Black Ambrosia said:


> I don't have a position on vaccines but tend to prefer holistic solutions to health challenges. I remember years ago I started seeing a new doctor and had bloodwork done. The office called the next day and told me they wanted to re-do the bloodwork because they were concerned about the results. It showed I was severely anemic, which I'd been dealing with for awhile, and my levels were dangerously low. My acupuncturist told me not to get a blood transfusion and it was my intention to refuse it once the second set of results came back but seeing the concern and lightweight panic in the doctor's eyes at the office and later at the ER made me change my mind. It's hard to imagine any parent would refuse treatment knowing that death is a possibility. It's different before somebody gets sick but, once they are, I expect people to do what's necessary to save the child.



I just feel like seizures from the flu is not normal. At that point it's too serious for homemade tea.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 8, 2020)

Laela said:


> I was saddened to read that story earlier this week.... to lose a child, esp that young. My condolences to the family... Looks like they did all they could to keep him healthy!


They did?


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 8, 2020)

Black Ambrosia said:


> My acupuncturist told me not to get a blood transfusion and it was my intention to refuse it once the second set of results came back but seeing the concern and lightweight panic in the doctor's eyes at the office and later at the ER made me change my mind


Your acupuncturist was stepping over the line.


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## Laela (Feb 8, 2020)

@bolded..my DH told me the same thing. I guess my point is.. the strains in U.S. are just as infectious and as deadly IMO, though I don't know if any of these children had been vaccinated .  
Corona is being heavily monitored and scientists are feverishly racing to develop a vaccine



Black Ambrosia said:


> I hear you but* it's not fair to compare this virus to the flu when it's still unclear how infectious it is and how quickly it's spreading.* The numbers could end up being much worse than the flu but we won't know that for awhile.


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## Laela (Feb 8, 2020)

What some may think was adequate, others will think was not enough ..




Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> They did?


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 8, 2020)

I will say that one reason that people turn to holistic stuff is because our health system fails us so much. I can understand that. And because of this mistrust and the rise of armchair online faux physicians, we need overhauls to our medical care as soon as possible. 

I bet this mom was trying to avoid the cost and hassle of going to the doctor with 3 small sick children. I get that and my heart goes out to her in what I know was a difficult situation. But people have got to stop giving medical advice online like this. 

too many people are using the internet as a dangerous platform. I saw someone the other day suggest that a person with suicidal tendencies stop their medication and use herbs to treat their mental illness. I mean, cmon. They are playing with peoples lives. And desperate people are grasping at these supposed lifelines.


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## B_Phlyy (Feb 8, 2020)

I really wish Western medicine hadn't demonized ancient holistic and 'alternative' remedies for preventative health and treatment. It is very possible for them to coexist together and for people to use them in tandem. 



Keen said:


> I just feel like seizures from the flu is not normal. At that point it's too serious for homemade tea.



Agreed. If it was serious enough for you to go to the hospital, the advice and prescriptions should have been seen as just as serious to take.


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## metro_qt (Feb 8, 2020)

Keen said:


> I just feel like seizures from the flu is not normal. At that point it's too serious for homemade tea.


I'm with you on that, especially since the week before, the mother wrote that one of the children had ALREADY had a seizure? How many seizures are enough?


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## Sosoothing (Feb 8, 2020)

metro_qt said:


> I'm with you on that, especially since the week before, the mother wrote that one of the children had ALREADY had a seizure? How many seizures are enough?



From what I'm understanding, no amount of seizures would have been enough because mom and her online friends did/do not think hospital treatment and/or medication is any good. So even after 20 seizures, she thought all she still needed was more online advice on which oils, herbs and home remedies to try next.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 8, 2020)

My heart does not go out to this mother. She should be in jail, imo. She ignored sound medical advice in favor of “remedies” from strangers on the internet, despite SEEING that it wasn’t working. Doing all she could would have been, giving up her BS stance and filling that prescription for Tamiflu. Who watches their child getting progressively worse, and just keeps pouring teas?? She is not fit to parent those other kids. 

Since when has peppermint oil and vitamin C been able to cure fevers and seizures? These people are idiots. 

I believe in natural holistic living to keep well; keep the immune system healthy. But once you already have something and it’s progressing to the point of seizure, it’s time to use common sense, stop trying to make a point, and do what you have to do to get better.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 8, 2020)

Sosoothing said:


> From what I'm understanding, no amount of seizures would have been enough because mom and her online friends did/do not think hospital treatment and/or medication is any good. So even after 20 seizures, she thought all she still needed was more online advice on which oils, herbs and home remedies to try next.



But they have the nerve to be mad at the hospital for not saving his life, after ignoring all the hospitals advice to keep the child off of his death bed in the first place. Insanity.


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## Laela (Feb 8, 2020)

ITA 




B_Phlyy said:


> Agreed. If it was serious enough for you to go to the hospital, the advice and prescriptions should have been seen as just as serious to take.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 8, 2020)

The mother of a four-year-old boy in Southern Colorado who died of the fluWednesday sought advice for “natural” remedies in an anti-vaccine Facebook group while he was ill, which included the use of elderberry, placing potatoes on the child’s forehead, and simply “eating lots of fruits and vegetables.” 





In a Facebook group titled “Stop Mandatory Vaccination,” the mother initially posted about her other sons, one 10-month-old and one 5-year-old, who tested positive for the flu virus. She wrote in the group that doctors prescribed Tamiflu to the whole family to ensure the virus didn’t spread among them, but was urged by the anti-vax group members against using the drug. 

The mother also noted that her 4-year-old son, the one who eventually died, had a 102-degree fever and had a febrile seizure. 







“Yes it’s scary the doc told me to give my other two children and myself [Tamiflu] so we won’t get it,” the mother commented.

“You’re better off taking Vitamin D and C, Elderberry, Zinc, and eating lots of fruits and vegetables,” one commenter replied. 

“Ok perfect I’ll try that,” the mother wrote back.  







She wrote that she never picked up the Tamiflu, and that “they are making me feel bad” for not administering the antiviral drug to her child, although she doesn’t specify to whom she’s referring. 

Another group member suggested putting sliced potatoes and cucumbers on the child’s forehead. Yet another suggested giving the child vitamin C until it caused diarrhea. 

She also notes that none of the children received a flu shot. 

_RELATED: “Bipartisan Bill Cracks Down on Vaccine Exemptions”_

The “Stop Mandatory Vaccination” Facebook group is run by anti-vaccine activist Larry Cook, a self-described “advocate for natural living” who aims to educate people about the “dangers of vaccination” and mobilize people against the “medical tyranny” of immunization policies, according to his website. The group has over 139,000 members. 

Cook blamed the hospital for not offering “real treatments” to the boy.





“Mom says they were treated poorly by the hospital, and of course, never offered any real treatments that would have likely cured her boy,” he wrote on the page. 

“EXACTLY!!” one commenter wrote in response. “You just have to nourish the body which hospitals do not do. They just poison.” 

“100%,” Cook replied.

That hospital is apparently Children’s Hospital Colorado Springs, according to a GoFundMe page set up by the family. 

All posts related to the incident have apparently been scrubbed by the Stop Mandatory Vaccination Facebook page. 

The _Colorado Times Recorder_ received screenshots of the Facebook posts from a source, and redacted the names of all individuals except for anti-vax group founder Larry Cook, who is a public figure. 

This story was first broken by NBC.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 8, 2020)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> Another group member suggested putting sliced potatoes and cucumbers on the child’s forehead. Yet another suggested giving the child vitamin C until it caused diarrhea.


WTH....


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## B_Phlyy (Feb 8, 2020)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> The mother of a four-year-old boy in Southern Colorado who died of the fluWednesday sought advice for “natural” remedies in an anti-vaccine Facebook group while he was ill, which included the use of elderberry, placing potatoes on the child’s forehead, and simply “eating lots of fruits and vegetables.”
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now this is just insanity. You have have 3 kids under 5, including a former preemie under 1 years old, all with fevers over 102F. 2 are having seizures and 2 confirmed with influenza infections. This was way past juice, berries, and vitamin C and she had to know that. Tamiflu is expensive but she would have probably got a discount seeing as she would have been filling 5 prescriptions at once. Even if she had just picked up baby Motrin and Tylenol on her own that could have helped bring down the fevers.


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## kimpaur (Feb 8, 2020)

"Vitamin C until Diarrea"

These people are some straight fools


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## Kanky (Feb 8, 2020)

Child neglect charges are needed. It is one thing not to use Tamiflu. Some people don’t find that it is worth the side effects. But she should’ve gotten the fever down with medications that are proven to work or taken him back to the hospital.


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## dicapr (Feb 8, 2020)

B_Phlyy said:


> I really wish Western medicine hadn't demonized ancient holistic and 'alternative' remedies for preventative health and treatment. It is very possible for them to coexist together and for people to use them in tandem.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. If it was serious enough for you to go to the hospital, the advice and prescriptions should have been seen as just as serious to take.



Thank you. I don’t get the either or mentality people have about how to take care of their health. You can use both western and holistic treatments so long as they do not interact with each other.


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## meka72 (Feb 8, 2020)

dicapr said:


> You can use both western and holistic treatments so long as they do not interact with each other.


My daughter had a febrile seizure when she was 4. Between 4 and 10, she had fevers that would come down while she was awake but shoot up when she went to sleep. We used Tylenol and Motrin in addition to putting a potato necklace on her. Lol. I swear by the potato necklace to break a fever but I’d never not use OTC/prescribed medicine to address her fever.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 8, 2020)

meka72 said:


> My daughter had a febrile seizure when she was 4. Between 4 and 10, she had fevers that would come down while she was awake but shoot up when she went to sleep. We used Tylenol and Motrin in addition to putting a potato necklace on her. Lol. I swear by the potato necklace to break a fever but I’d never not use OTC/prescribed medicine to address her fever.



What is the potato supposed to do?


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## RoundEyedGirl504 (Feb 8, 2020)

There is some weird obsessive “health” stuff going around in general. When you are dealing with an ongoing fever elderberry ain’t gonna cut it. But people are getting weirder and weirder. 

I was in Costco the other day and I had these dark Chocolate mini peanut butter cups in my basket. Random white lady behind me is like those looked good but they aren’t healthy, I mean it says no artificial flavors or additives but if you read the label blah blah. Then she could tell she sounded like a lunatic and stopped talking but the internet has given people information overload to the point of absurdity.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 8, 2020)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> There is some weird obsessive “health” stuff going around in general. When you are dealing with an ongoing fever elderberry ain’t gonna cut it. But people are getting weirder and weirder.
> 
> I was in Costco the other day and I had these dark Chocolate mini peanut butter cups in my basket. Random white lady behind me is like those looked good but they aren’t healthy, I mean it says no artificial flavors or additives but if you read the label blah blah. Then she could tell she sounded like a lunatic and stopped talking but the internet has given people information overload to the point of absurdity.



I was recently informed over a crudité platter that the cauliflower I was eating is not good for me, according to Dr. Sebi.  

This is health conscious culture colliding with Woke culture, which is colliding with conspiracy theorist culture.


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## Jmartjrmd (Feb 8, 2020)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> I will say that one reason that people turn to holistic stuff is because our health system fails us so much. I can understand that. And because of this mistrust and the rise of armchair online faux physicians, we need overhauls to our medical care as soon as possible.
> 
> I bet this mom was trying to avoid the cost and hassle of going to the doctor with 3 small sick children. I get that and my heart goes out to her in what I know was a difficult situation. But people have got to stop giving medical advice online like this.
> 
> too many people are using the internet as a dangerous platform. I saw someone the other day suggest that a person with suicidal tendencies stop their medication and use herbs to treat their mental illness. I mean, cmon. They are playing with peoples lives. And desperate people are grasping at these supposed lifelines.


Yes daily in heart failure groups someone will suggest not taking meds because THEY experienced a side effect.
Or the ones that get me come on like I'm having arm pain, jaw pain, chest pain. my bp is 200/110 what should I do.
Some of them I learned like the drama and attention they get cause no sane person has all that but thinks the best or first thing they should do is get on facebook.


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## meka72 (Feb 8, 2020)

Theresamonet said:


> What is the potato supposed to do?


I know it makes no sense but it’s supposed to draw the fever out.


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## Everything Zen (Feb 9, 2020)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> There is some weird obsessive “health” stuff going around in general. When you are dealing with an ongoing fever elderberry ain’t gonna cut it. But people are getting weirder and weirder.
> 
> I was in Costco the other day and I had these dark Chocolate mini peanut butter cups in my basket. Random white lady behind me is like those looked good but they aren’t healthy, I mean it says no artificial flavors or additives but if you read the label blah blah. Then she could tell she sounded like a lunatic and stopped talking but the internet has given people information overload to the point of absurdity.



Ummmm... stay out my grocery basket?


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## Daernyris (Feb 9, 2020)

Sounds like she was ill-equipped for motherhood and her son paid for it.

Not following medical advice is all too common.  People will leave the ED AMA(against medical advice) in a heartbeat, only to come back to the hospital begging to be saved.

You know what I think is profound to me about this story?  I'm almost certain if you were to ask the mother, she will tell you she did the best she could for this child.  That everyone is at fault for this child's death except her.


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## Laela (Feb 9, 2020)

She sounds like an inexperienced mother, yes..maybe even overwhelmed,  to allow herself be misled by  some crazy kooks online. But folks coming at her like she's a single baby momma. She's  married and her husband had responded to the criticism.  I don't  know what their extended family  structure is or how insured they are  but seems they don't have a strong support base.

We're  always quick to call for jail time on black folks, esp when we don't know the whole story.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 9, 2020)

Laela said:


> She sounds like an inexperienced mother, yes..maybe even overwhelmed,  to allow herself be misled by  some crazy kooks online. But folks coming at her like she's a single baby momma. She's  married and her husband had responded to the criticism.  I don't  know what their extended family  structure is or how insured they are  but seems they don't have a strong support base.
> 
> We're  always quick to call for jail time on black folks, esp when we don't know the whole story.


What did the husband say? She said in the screenshots that she was trying to go the natural way alone so does that mean the husband was not down with this? She also said that the doctor suggested that she treat the kids and herself with tamiflu, why wasn’t a husband mentioned? Just seems weird. 

Also, I didn’t think they were black. Black, white, or purple, it doesn’t change the fact that a child is dead and the mom went against medical advice in favor of Karen’s suggestions on Facebook


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## Jmartjrmd (Feb 9, 2020)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> What did the husband say? She said in the screenshots that she was trying to go the natural way alone so does that mean the husband was not down with this? She also said that the doctor suggested that she treat the kids and herself with tamiflu, why wasn’t a husband mentioned? Just seems weird.
> 
> Also, I didn’t think they were black. Black, white, or purple, it doesn’t change the fact that a child is dead and the mom went against medical advice in favor of Karen’s suggestions on Facebook


Exactly.  Why take the babies into the doctor if you're doing your own thing.
I'm all for natural but sometimes it doesnt work. Substituting medical care for facebook isnt good parenting or common sense.  Use that on yourself if you wish but watching your kid suffer when there is help available is neglect.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 9, 2020)

Laela said:


> She sounds like an inexperienced mother, yes..maybe even overwhelmed,  to allow herself be misled by  some crazy kooks online. But folks coming at her like she's a single baby momma. She's  married and her husband had responded to the criticism.  I don't  know what their extended family  structure is or how insured they are  but seems they don't have a strong support base.
> 
> We're  always quick to call for jail time on black folks, esp when we don't know the whole story.



Mom isn’t even black, so miss us with the we’re so hard on the black woman talk. Regardless, of her color, I’d think she should be held accountable. A child is dead.

They had enough of a support system for there to be people in their lives urging them to follow doctors orders.

Inexperienced and overwhelmed to the point of causing the child’s death = ill equipped for motherhood, as a previous poster stated. And if they are really unwilling to hear criticism and think that they did all they could, as the father stated, then I’m afraid for the children they have left.

Oh, and mom has set up a Gofundme.


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## Everything Zen (Feb 9, 2020)

Try this- Don’t post about it on social media in the first place.


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## chocolat79 (Feb 9, 2020)

Theresamonet said:


> My heart does not go out to this mother. She should be in jail, imo. She ignored sound medical advice in favor of “remedies” from strangers on the internet, despite SEEING that it wasn’t working. Doing all she could would have been, giving up her BS stance and filling that prescription for Tamiflu. Who watches their child getting progressively worse, and just keeps pouring teas?? She is not fit to parent those other kids.
> 
> Since when has peppermint oil and vitamin C been able to cure fevers and seizures? These people are idiots.
> 
> I believe in natural holistic living to keep well; keep the immune system healthy. But once you already have something and it’s progressing to the point of seizure, it’s time to use common sense, stop trying to make a point, and do what you have to do to get better.


ITA


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## moneychaser (Feb 9, 2020)

I don’t play around when it comes to the flu.  I seriously thought I was going to die the two times I had it.  Last time I had it I was so delirious I walked into a wall and fainted.
I make sure my babies get vaccinated annually.


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## Theresamonet (Feb 9, 2020)

moneychaser said:


> I don’t play around when it comes to the flu.  I seriously thought I was going to die the two times I had it.  Last time I had it I was so delirious I walked into a wall and fainted.
> I make sure my babies get vaccinated annually.



That’s scary. Do you get vaccinated too? Maybe I should start...

I’ve never had a bad flu. I’m actually not sure that I’ve had the flu at all as an adult vs a common cold, maybe once or twice.


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## Jmartjrmd (Feb 9, 2020)

How convenient she left off her gofundme that she ignored medical advice yet wants to take the tone that it's the hospitals fault.
I feel sorry for her kids but this death is partially on her.  With kids and the flu you never know if he would have survived but at least give him a chance. Poor cutie pie.   Parents in the PICU used to do this when I worked there.  Kid to the point of no return then they wanna try and blame us.  No ma'am.
I know hospitals mess up but I hate how she shifts the blame and leaves out what she decided to do for her babies despite being given treatment.
Natural disasters are natural doesn't mean they don't leave death and destruction in their path.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 9, 2020)

Theresamonet said:


> That’s scary. Do you get vaccinated too? Maybe I should start...
> 
> I’ve never had a bad flu. I’m actually not sure that I’ve had the flu at all as an adult vs a common cold, maybe once or twice.





moneychaser said:


> I don’t play around when it comes to the flu.  I seriously thought I was going to die the two times I had it.  Last time I had it I was so delirious I walked into a wall and fainted.
> I make sure my babies get vaccinated annually.


We got the flu as a family for the first time last year. I’ve always gotten the flu shot because it’s offered/mandatory at my jobs but I did not always get the kids vaccinated. 

I really thought I was going to have to take DH to the hospital at one point and DDs fever was the highest I’d ever seen it. It was incredibly scary as a parent seeing your child that sick that suddenly. 

We all get vaccinated now and will every year.We use elderberry etc too . but I will be at the doctor/ER in a heartbeat if things get bad and I embrace tamiflu. 

I had not had the flu since I was a little girl and it knocked me on my butt.


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## LivingInPeace (Feb 9, 2020)

Theresamonet said:


> That’s scary. Do you get vaccinated too? Maybe I should start...
> 
> I’ve never had a bad flu. I’m actually not sure that I’ve had the flu at all as an adult vs a common cold, maybe once or twice.


You would know if you had the flu. It comes on suddenly. One minute you feel okay and the next you barely have the energy to walk. When I had the flu it took me forty-five minutes to get from the bedroom to the kitchen. I had to take breaks on the stairs.


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## MilkChocolateOne (Feb 10, 2020)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> WTH....



I am in a mom group on Facebook and they told someone to put sliced potatoes in her child’s socks to treat a stubborn fever.  They told her the potato turning black was the fever being pulled out of the body. Potatoes will turn black when exposed to air because of oxidation. Smh. Some of the advice given in these groups is dangerous.


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## Foxglove (Feb 10, 2020)

Theresamonet said:


> That’s scary. Do you get vaccinated too? Maybe I should start...
> 
> I’ve never had a bad flu. I’m actually not sure that I’ve had the flu at all as an adult vs a common cold, maybe once or twice.



please do if only to protect and prevent transmission to those around you who can’t or have weakened immune systems (infants/people on chemo/pregnant women/old people, etc). While you may get ill they make up the bulk of who actually dies from it


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## Laela (Feb 10, 2020)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> What did the husband say?
> 
> _*“I don’t look at none of it,” Jackson said, referring to the online criticism."
> 
> ...


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## discodumpling (Feb 12, 2020)

She's gonna have to live with this the rest of her life. You're up to 3 children and have no idea how to treat or relieve a fever? You take 1 kid to the ER but seek advice on FB for the rest?  You have a diagnosis of FLU and you wanna up his vitamin C?? She's a monster. She didn't deserve him.


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## LivingInPeace (Feb 12, 2020)

This is what happens when a culture decides that opinions are just as valid as science.


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## RoundEyedGirl504 (Feb 12, 2020)

LivingInPeace said:


> This is what happens when a culture decides that opinions are just as valid as science.



This is basically it.


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## moneychaser (Feb 12, 2020)

Theresamonet said:


> That’s scary. Do you get vaccinated too? Maybe I should start...
> 
> I’ve never had a bad flu. I’m actually not sure that I’ve had the flu at all as an adult vs a common cold, maybe once or twice.



It is no joke!  I was afraid I wasnt going to wake up when I would go to sleep.
The two times I had I did not get vaccinated.  I do now for sure!


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## Kanky (Feb 13, 2020)

moneychaser said:


> It is no joke!  I was afraid I wasnt going to wake up when I would go to sleep.
> The two times I had I did not get vaccinated.  I do now for sure!


I got my flu shot this year, early in the season like I do every year and I had the worst flu I’ve ever had in my life. My husband procrastinated getting his flu shot and got an updated version that was a better match for the flu virus that was actually going around. He was fine and the kids and I who dutifully went to the doctor for our shots in a timely manner all got sick. Yes, I am still salty about it.


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## itsallaboutattitude (Feb 16, 2020)

I’ve never had the flu shot. Why you posted about the flu shot you got vs the flu shot your hubby got is the main reason why. 

There are 50-11 strains floating around and the drug manufacturers only create vaccines for 8 or 15 strains. 

I also don’t want I live shot and docs keep saying it’s not live but my circle who have to or do so annually get sick within a week or two of getting the vaccine. 

I may have gotten the flu 2019 Spring. That would be 1x in my 48 years. 

I wear masks on the train to and from work and wash my hands. Use my elbows and arms to open and close doors or use a paper towel to touch objects being touched by everyone. 

And if someone starts sneezing or coughing around me at the job, I’ll pull out my mask and put it on. 


Kanky said:


> I got my flu shot this year, early in the season like I do every year and I had the worst flu I’ve ever had in my life. My husband procrastinated getting his flu shot and got an updated version that was a better match for the flu virus that was actually going around. He was fine and the kids and I who dutifully went to the doctor for our shots in a timely manner all got sick. Yes, I am still salty about it.


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## vevster (Feb 17, 2020)

I think most know my position on western vs other types of medicine... so I'm not getting into that here, however, with kids, if the preventative / natural stuff isn't working you must take them to the  hospital.... once it becomes acute ----

That said, there are people that get vaccinated follow all the western rules catch flu and die.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 17, 2020)

vevster said:


> That said, there are people that get vaccinated follow all the western rules catch flu and die.


There are people that wear seat belts and still die in car accidents but that doesn’t mean that your chances are significantly  better when wearing a seat belt vs not wearing one.

I’m not sure why people always seem to say things like “people who get vaccinated still can die”. No one ever said vaccinations are perfect.


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## vevster (Feb 17, 2020)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> I’m not sure why people always seem to say things like “people who get vaccinated still can die”. No one ever said vaccinations are perfect.


I know people that get the flu EVERY time they get that shot.  No thanks....


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## Laela (Feb 17, 2020)

Isn't the flu shot an injection of the virus so your  body becomes immune to that strain?  With so many strains,  I can see people still getting the flu even if they got the shot. I know someone who had an already weakened immune system get the flu shot, literally  dropping to the floor right after taking the shot and never waking up... died in the hospital.
That's  an extreme cases...most people benefit from flu shots but I believe the health of one's  immune system (young or old) plays a role in susceptibility of getting ill.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 17, 2020)

vevster said:


> I know people that get the flu EVERY time they get that shot.  No thanks....


Still not seeing the point. Again, benefits of the shot include lessening symptoms if you do catch it.

Since we are using anecdotal evidence as the basis for our reasoning, here’s mine: EYE know someone who knows she will get the flu ever year even tho she gets the flu shot. Know why she continues to get the shot?  Because on the years she doesn’t get the flu shot, she ends up in the hospital. With the shot, she has a less violent reaction.

So we can all hold on to our anecdotal evidence to make us feel better.


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## dicapr (Feb 17, 2020)

Laela said:


> Isn't the flu shot an injection of the virus so your  body becomes immune to that strain?  With so many strains,  I can see people still getting the flu even if they got the shot. I know someone who had an already weakened immune system get the flu shot, literally  dropping to the floor right after taking the shot and never waking up... died in the hospital.
> That's  an extreme cases...most people benefit from flu shots but I believe the health of one's  immune system (young or old) plays a role in susceptibility of getting ill.



The injection contains fragments/dead virus. You may have a reaction to the ingredients in the shot but unless you are opting for the flu mist you can’t get the flu from the shot.


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## vevster (Feb 17, 2020)

Leeda.the.Paladin said:


> Know why she continues to get the shot? Because on the years she doesn’t get the flu shot, she ends up in the hospital. With the shot, she has a less violent reaction.


Ahhhhh you  know what happens when you ASSUME....

She gets the shot because she is FORCED to by her job.  She works for a hospital.


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 17, 2020)

vevster said:


> Ahhhhh you  know what happens when you ASSUME....
> 
> She gets the shot because she is FORCED to by her job.  She works for a hospital.



What are you talking about? Im not assuming. But I am confused. 

I’m not talking about your anecdotal person, I’m talking about mine. I never assumed to know anything about the person you’re talking about *shrug*


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## Laela (Feb 17, 2020)

I don't see where I said the flu shot gives anyone the flu??... I said the flu shot won't keep them from getting sick/the flu. They could still be susceptible to other strains of the flu or other viruses




dicapr said:


> The injection contains fragments/dead virus. You may have a reaction to the ingredients in the shot but unless you are opting for the flu mist you can’t get the flu from the shot.


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## Farida (Feb 17, 2020)

Laela said:


> I don't see where I said the flu shot gives anyone the flu??... I said the flu shot won't keep them from getting sick/the flu. They could still be susceptible to other strains of the flu or other viruses


I think it’s the way you told the story of the person collapsing after the statement you made. I had to reread your post because I thought you were saying the person died from getting the flu from the shot. So now I see you just meant the person had a bad reaction.


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## Farida (Feb 17, 2020)

I saw someone tell a mom on fb not to give tylenol to a kid with a fever because tylenol disrupts your DNA  

It cracks me up because these same folks will say climate change is real because Science but turn around and ignore modern science when it comes to comments like the DNA thing...


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## Laela (Feb 17, 2020)

Oh, I see.. OK thanks and sorry for confusion...


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 17, 2020)

Farida said:


> I saw someone tell a mom on fb not to give tylenol to a kid with a fever because tylenol disrupts your DNA
> 
> It cracks me up because these same folks will say climate change is real because Science but turn around and ignore modern science when it comes to comments like the DNA thing...


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## dicapr (Feb 17, 2020)

Laela said:


> I don't see where I said the flu shot gives anyone the flu??... I said the flu shot won't keep them from getting sick/the flu. They could still be susceptible to other strains of the flu or other viruses



You were saying that the flu shot killed someone you know. I was just pointing out it was an allergic reaction not from the actual flu component. There are a lot of people having reactions to the shot who think that it gave them the flu.


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## Laela (Feb 17, 2020)

My apologies about my miscommunication..thanks for the explanation. 



dicapr said:


> You were saying that the flu shot killed someone you know. I was just pointing out it was an allergic reaction not from the actual flu component. There are a lot of people having reactions to the shot who think that it gave them the flu.


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## intellectualuva (Feb 18, 2020)

kimpaur said:


> "Vitamin C until Diarrea"
> 
> These people are some straight fools



Interestingly enough when I start to come down with anything which is rare I take lysosomal Vitamin C in regular intervals until I'm darn near at this point.  I dont know which journal I read it but I know I started down the IV Vit C and cancer and ended up at Lysosomal Vit C for reducing recovery time with other illnesses/boosting immune system. Even when I sprained my ankle......my body seems to repair itself quicker, but I'm ok if it's all hokie pokie as I still would get myself to a doc and follow a doc's advice if I were ever that sick. 

That said, with 3 babies with a fever and 2/4 having some kind of seizure the time for Lavender, Vitamin C etc has LONG passed.

She was negligent. That poor baby died in the process.



Theresamonet said:


> I was recently informed over a crudité platter that the cauliflower I was eating is not good for me, according to Dr. Sebi.
> 
> This is health conscious culture colliding with Woke culture, which is colliding with conspiracy theorist culture.



Someone told me to give up garlic too because that's on Dr Sebi's no no list. I like my roasted cauliflower and garlic.


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## vevster (Feb 18, 2020)

intellectualuva said:


> Even when I sprained my ankle....


I recently sprained my ankle as well and my acupuncturist said I was  recovering very quickly  

I take (2 caps daily) of lyposomal (sp) vitamin C as well!

I'm looking into this Dr Sebi plan... I've heard about it for years... If there are any gems there, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.....


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## Leeda.the.Paladin (Feb 18, 2020)

intellectualuva said:


> That said, with 3 babies with a fever and 2/4 having some kind of seizure the time for Lavender, Vitamin C etc has LONG passed.


Kids with the flu already have problems with dehydration so for someone to suggest that she cause the diarrhea is beyond stupid. Now I'm wondering if they should investigate whether some of these ”remedies” put this child at more risk for death and made the symptoms worse


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## Lylddlebit (Feb 18, 2020)

LivingInPeace said:


> This is what happens when a culture decides that opinions are just as valid as science.


..and when people  treat concrete truth/reality like it's relative.  Tragic story all around.


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## chocolat79 (Feb 20, 2020)

Had a patient recently who has had increased blood pressure for a week,  including dizziness and headache who was trying natural remedies because of bad advice from family/ friends.  She finally brought her tail to the hospital. I told her she was in stroke territory with how high her blood pressure was.  Crazily enough,  she had had a stroke before


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