# (!!!) Something That'll Make You Think...Too Deep To Not Check It Out (!!!)



## Poohbear (Mar 18, 2005)

*I received this from my dad through e-mail...*

*Would you run?*

*Imagine this happening to you...*

*One Sunday morning during service, a 2,000 member congregation was*
*surprised to see two men enter, both covered from head to toe in black*
*and carrying submachine guns.*

*One of the men proclaimed, "Anyone willing to take a bullet for Christ remain where you are."*

*Immediately, the choir fled...*

*The deacons fled...*

*And most of the congregation fled....*

*Out of the 2,000 there only...*

*Remained around 20.*

*The man who had spoken took off his hood...*

*He then looked at the preacher and said "Okay Pastor, I got rid of all*
*the hypocrites... Now you may begin your service. Have a nice day!"*

*And the two men turned and walked out.*


*TOO DEEP TO NOT PASS ON...*

**Funny how simple it is for people to trash God ...*
*and then wonder why the world is in the condition it is today....*

**Funny how we believe what the newspapers say...*
*But question what the Bible says...*

**Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven...*
*Provided they do not have to believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says.*

*or is it scary?*

**Funny how someone can say "I believe in God"...*
*But still follow Satan (who, by the way, also "believes" in God).*

**Funny how you can send a thousand 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire...*
*but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, you think twice about sharing.*

**Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through*
*cyberspace...*
*But the public discussion of Jesus is suppressed in the school and work place.*

**Funny, isn't it? Funny how someone can be so fired up for Christ on*
*Sunday...*
*but be an invisible Christian the rest of the week.*

*Are you laughing?*

**Funny how when you go to forward this message...*
*You will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe...*
*Or what they will think of you for sending it to them.*

**Funny how I can be more worried about what other people think of me...*
*... Than what God thinks of me.*

*Are you thinking?*

*Will you share this with people you care about?*
*Or not?*

*I picked you~*

*May the Lord bless you and keep you,*
*May the Lord make His face to shine upon you,*
*And be gracious to you;*
*May the Lord lift up His favor upon you*
*And give you His peace.*

*THIS IS A GOOD MESSAGE PASS IT ON 2 FRIENDS AND FAMILY...I hope you share it.*


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## MrsQueeny (Mar 18, 2005)

I love this story Poohbear.  My Pastor tells it but it is only one man and instead he says something like "okay now we can really have church"!!!


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## cybra (Mar 19, 2005)

That was awesome, PB. I was saying as I was reading, "I wouldn't run, I would sit right there and give God the praise I came to give him."  But I am sure many people would flee.  I figure like this, we wouldn't go up into someone's house unless they are home, right?  So, if I'm in the Lord's house I'm sure he would be there.  Thus, it would be Him alone who would determine what would happen to me, not some gunman.  Right?

That was so good!


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## Poohbear (Mar 19, 2005)

cybra said:
			
		

> I figure like this, we wouldn't go up into someone's house unless they are home, right? So, if I'm in the Lord's house I'm sure he would be there. Thus, it would be Him alone who would determine what would happen to me, not some gunman. Right?


*You're right! So true! *


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## MeccaMedinah (Mar 19, 2005)

I will definitely be passing this on.


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## stcsweet (Mar 19, 2005)

Great message! I, too, will be passing this on.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 19, 2005)

I know most of you might not agree with me, but I would run. Why would I stay?  To risk being killed for what?  That is crazy to say that you are a hypocrite because you do not stay. 

Jesus and the apostles often had to run for their lives. They didn't sit around and say, "I'm taking a bullet for God", when they knew they had greater missions for God to do. When it was truly time according to God's will, Jesus gave up His life for our lives. Not just to prove a point that doesn't need proving anyway.


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## Sweet_Ambrosia (Mar 19, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> I know most of you might not agree with me, but I would run. Why would I stay?  To risk being killed for what?  *That is crazy to say that you are a hypocrite because you do not stay. *
> Jesus and the apostles often had to run for their lives. They didn't sit around and say, "I'm taking a bullet for God", when they knew they had greater missions for God to do. When it was truly time according to God's will, *Jesus gave up His life for our lives. Not just to prove a point that doesn't need proving anyway*.




*ITA..I would run & not look back!*


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## Isis (Mar 19, 2005)

Interesting points by all... In real life, look what happened at Columbine (in Colorado) a few years ago with the massacre of students and teachers by two boys (whom I believe were influenced by evil forces). One of the boys presented a similar question to certain students, to test their faith in Jesus.

I believe God knows our hearts totally and completely. If I was in a life and death situation and I intuitively felt the need to run, I will honor those feelings because I know they are from God too.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 19, 2005)

cybra said:
			
		

> So, if I'm in the Lord's house I'm sure he would be there.



Acts 7
48Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet

Acts 17
24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;


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## pebbles (Mar 19, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> Acts 7
> 48Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet
> 
> Acts 17
> 24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;



Acts 7:48 occurs right before Stephen is stoned. The point being made there is that the Jews disobeyed the law of God, and in so doing drove HIM away. Exodus 40:34-38 clearly tells us that when Moses built the temple, God's glory graciously dwelt in the holy of holies. Again, when Solomon built the temple God's glory came in. 1 Kings 8:10-11.

In Acts 17:24, Paul was talking about the greatness of the Lord, saying that He is not a distant God, separated from His creation, nor is He imprisoned locked in creation. He is willing and able to attend to the need of his people. Paul was saying that God is too great to be housed or confined in man made temples. 

Don't forget, Matthew 18:20 tells us that where two or three are gathered in His name, so shall He be in their midst. And since we know that God is not a man that He should lie, nor the son of man that He should repent, (Num 23:19), if He has spoken it, He will do it. So yes, when the saints gather to praise God in truth and in spirit, whether it be in church or in any other gathering, our Heavenly Father is present. 

Great post, Poohbear!


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 19, 2005)

pebbles said:
			
		

> *God is too great to be housed or confined in man made temples. *



Exactly my point.

1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV)  
   19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Where I am, the Spirit of God is. Not just when I'm at church.


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## Poohbear (Mar 19, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> 1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV)
> 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?


This verse is in reference to sexual immorality.  When Paul says this, he is talking about how our bodies belong to God and that we should not do whatever we want with our bodies, such as engaging in sexual desires outside of marriage.


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## Poohbear (Mar 19, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> Acts 17
> 24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;


 
This verse wasn't saying God doesn't dwell in the church today and he wasn't saying God is too great to be housed or confined in man made temples. You can not read this verse separately without reading the whole scripture which is verses 16-34 which talks about Paul telling about the unknown God. During this time, the Athenians built an idol to the unknown god for fear of missing blessings or receiving punishment. Paul's opening statement in verse 23 to the men was about their unknown god. Paul was not endorsing this god, but using the inscription as a point of entry for his witness to the one true God. See, these Athenians were ignorantly worshipping in their temples. When verse 24 says "God...dwelleth not in temples made with hands", that's because the Athenians were not worshipping the one true God but an unknown god in their temples. I hope that makes that verse more understandable.


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## pebbles (Mar 20, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> Exactly my point.
> 
> 1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV)
> 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
> ...



Delightful, the scripture you posted has to do with sexual immorality. It's not related to the previous text you posted. And you have taken the post I made  out of context. It does not support your argument that God is not in church or where the saints gather. I tried to explain it, but perhaps if you go back and read Acts 17 in it's entirety, you'll see what was really being said.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 20, 2005)

What is taken out of context?  Is the Spirit of God within or does it live in a church building?


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## Nefertiti0906 (Mar 20, 2005)

I understand where you're coming from 



			
				DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> What is taken out of context? Is the Spirit of God within or does it live in a church building?


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## mkstar826 (Mar 20, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> I know most of you might not agree with me, but I would run. Why would I stay?  To risk being killed for what?  That is crazy to say that you are a hypocrite because you do not stay.
> 
> Jesus and the apostles often had to run for their lives. They didn't sit around and say, "I'm taking a bullet for God", when they knew they had greater missions for God to do. When it was truly time according to God's will, Jesus gave up His life for our lives. Not just to prove a point that doesn't need proving anyway.





This story doesn't make sense to me. I mean I see the point that's trying to be put out but I don't agree. I would have run also. Because if someone is holding a gun to my head or comes into a building where I am and holds up a gun threatening me and trying to prove how faithful I am, they are obviously not of God (or should I say not acting very godly in the moment) anyway so why would I stay there? It's backwards...


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## Nyambura (Mar 20, 2005)

Thanks for the post, PoohBear.  At times, I do find myself hesitating to e-mail messages about the Lord to people whose faith I don't know. For those friends who are Jewish, Hindu or Muslim, I do wonder how they would receive it. Sometimes I wonder where the line is between sharing my faith and imposing on those who don't care to hear it. It's funny b/c in my experience, the most resistance I've observed has come from people who were born into Christian families but abandoned the faith. Ok, I'll stop yammering now.


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## Poohbear (Mar 20, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> Is the Spirit of God within or does it live in a church building?


 John 4:21-24 talks about God is a Spirit meaning He is not a physical being limited to one place.  He is present EVERYWHERE (whether within a person or in a church building) and He can be worshipped anywhere and at anytime.  It is not where we worship that counts, but how we worship.  It all depends on these factors: Is your worship genuine and real? Do you have the Holy Spirit's help? How does the Holy Spirit help us worship? The Holy Spirit prays for us, teaches us the words of Christ, and tells us we are loved.


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## pebbles (Mar 20, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> John 4:21-24 talks about God is a Spirit meaning He is not a physical being limited to one place.  He is present EVERYWHERE (whether within a person or in a church building) and He can be worshipped anywhere and at anytime.  It is not where we worship that counts, but how we worship.  It all depends on these factors: Is your worship genuine and real? Do you have the Holy Spirit's help? How does the Holy Spirit help us worship? The Holy Spirit prays for us, teaches us the words of Christ, and tells us we are loved.



Exactly! GOD is Omnipresent. HE's everywhere, particularly where worship is, whether it's in a church or elsewhere.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 21, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> John 4:21-24 talks about God is a Spirit meaning He is not a physical being limited to one place.  He is present EVERYWHERE (whether within a person or in a church building) and He can be worshipped anywhere and at anytime.  It is not where we worship that counts, but how we worship.  It all depends on these factors: Is your worship genuine and real? Do you have the Holy Spirit's help? How does the Holy Spirit help us worship? The Holy Spirit prays for us, teaches us the words of Christ, and tells us we are loved.



ITA. The confusion for me is if the Spirit is everywhere and in everything already, then how can you not have the Holy Spirit's help (as you asked above as a factor for deciding how you are worshipping). Technically, the Spirit is already there in you and where ever/ whatever you do anyhow. And people that do evil, the Spirit is in them too...correct?


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## Poohbear (Mar 21, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> ITA. The confusion for me is if the Spirit is everywhere and in everything already, then how can you not have the Holy Spirit's help (as you asked above as a factor for deciding how you are worshipping). Technically, the Spirit is already there in you and where ever/ whatever you do anyhow. And people that do evil, the Spirit is in them too...correct?


I never said "you can not have the Holy Spirit's help".  Everyone NEEDS the Holy Spirit's help in any situation...
As far as people who do evil...can you be more specific? Are you talking about *Christians* who sin or just *unsaved people* who do wrong???  For Christians who sin... all Christians have done wrong and do wrong...when we do wrong, we are not allowing the Holy Spirit within us to guide us in the right way.  For people who are unsaved and do wrong, they do not have the Holy Spirit since they have not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior of their life. So they are just guided by their own beliefs/morals/etc. Does that explain your questions???


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 21, 2005)

Nope. I'm still confused.  If the Spirit of God is everywhere and in everything, then how do we invite it in since it is already there?

What is the difference b/w the Spirit of God that is everywhere and in everything already, and the Spirit of God that we have to invite in?  This is what is confusing me.


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## Poohbear (Mar 21, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> Nope. I'm still confused. If the Spirit of God is everywhere and in everything, then how do we invite it in since it is already there?
> 
> What is the difference b/w the Spirit of God that is everywhere and in everything already, and the Spirit of God that we have to invite in? This is what is confusing me.


Okay... when people say a phrase like "*invite* or receive the Holy Spirit", they mean "*use* the Holy Spirit *within you*" to get your blessing, to experience his presence, to guide you, or etc. Sometimes, we will allow the Holy Spirit to be *inactive* while at other times it's *active*.  When the Holy Spirit is inactive, that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is not already there....just like a dormant volcano that's not ready to errupt yet. Does that clear your confusion???


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 21, 2005)

But don't you have to be guided by the Spirit to activate Spirit?  This is really shedding the light on the fact that I need to do another study on the Spirit b/c I am thoroughly confused.

Not to mention, Jesus said He was sending the Holy Spirit as a comforter for us after He left. So was He sending the same Spirit that was already here?


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## Poohbear (Mar 21, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> But don't you have to be guided by the Spirit to activate Spirit? This is really shedding the light on the fact that I need to do another study on the Spirit b/c I am thoroughly confused.


No, you have to have the Spirit within you to activate the Spirit. But all I know is no one is perfect and no one lives by the Spirit *completely and wholeheartedly* at all times.  That's the only way I can explain that question.



> Not to mention, Jesus said He was sending the Holy Spirit as a comforter for us after He left. So was He sending the same Spirit that was already here?


 God is three-in-one (trinity)...the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.  Just like God sent us Jesus, Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit...but they are all the same!   It's a very complex concept so I would recommend studying the Bible on "Trinity" and maybe ask your pastor/minister to get a better understanding on the Holy Spirit.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 21, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> God is three-in-one (trinity)...the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.  Just like God sent us Jesus, Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit...but they are all the same!   It's a very complex concept so I would recommend studying the Bible on "Trinity" and maybe ask your pastor/minister to get a better understanding on the Holy Spirit.



LOL...thanks but talking to them is why I'm confused now. God will show me like always.


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## Poohbear (Mar 21, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> LOL...thanks but talking to them is why I'm confused now. God will show me like always.


Oh really? I'm sorry to hear that.  But I admire your perserverance in learning about the word of God and wanting to understand and know what it means.  Just keep pressing on with your strength and faith!


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 21, 2005)

Thanks Pooh!


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## honeylove316 (Mar 21, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> But don't you have to be guided by the Spirit to activate Spirit? This is really shedding the light on the fact that I need to do another study on the Spirit b/c I am thoroughly confused.
> 
> Not to mention, Jesus said He was sending the Holy Spirit as a comforter for us after He left. So was He sending the same Spirit that was already here?


 

Okay, let me see if I can elucidate it for you. To address the first part of your question, God is spirit and the Holy Spirit indwells (lives inside) of His children. The spirit of God, which is God is omnipresent, meaning that it is everywhere at the same time. That never changes, saint or sinner. When you come to Christ, you recieve not only salvation, but sanctification(cleansing of sin),propitiation(regain God's favor) but you recieve the dispensation of the Holy Spirit. He is also called the Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener and Stand-by. That gift only comes through salvation.

When you have the Holy Spirit on the inside of you, it informs your choices, convicts you when you are doing wrong and it comforts you in need. More on that last part later. Think of God as three parts : Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are all one and the same, but each has a different relationship with us, but all are based on love and care for us.That's the best part. 

In John 14:16 ,Jesus says he will pray the Father to send another comforter,that he will abide along side forever.

The Holy Spirit comes from the greek word paracletos, which means comforter. It is actually a compound word-"para" meaning along side and "cleteos" which means to call. So the Holy Spirit is "called along side" us to comfort us. Forever. Ain't God good? 

Now here's where it gets really interesting (to me at least, lol). The word another has two different meanings from the Greek, the first- heteros, which means of a different kind, and allos- which means of a same kind.
So when Jesus spoke of sending a comforter, He uses the word allos-the Holy Spirit which is a comforter, yes, of a same kind. Unlike Christ, who was physically there with His disciples,to whom this was directed. He told them this because they were distraught over Him telling them He had to go to prepare a place for them.(John 14:2) He had to go, but He was sending another(of the same kind) in His place. 

The Holy Spirit is now called to dwell and abide alongside the all the children of God. Now, much like anything, we have our own will and flesh, so even if the Holy Spirit is with us forever, we may not listen. But like Christ, He will never leave or forsake us. I hope this helped a little.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 21, 2005)

So then the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of God are not one and the same as Christianity teaches (Trinity)?


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## miracle (Mar 22, 2005)

*I honestly don't know what I'd do in that situation, but I wouldn't call anyone who decided to flee a hypocrite.  I'm thinking that once one sees two armed gunman dressed in black run into the church, before they even say anything, the "fight or flight" response is activated.  In that moment, a person is acting on pure adrenaline.  Some people will probably run because it's what their release of adrenaline is telling them to do.  Some may want to move, but are too scared to, etc.  Any variety of actions could be taken.  But regardless of what my "fight or flight" response would be, I definitely wouldn't be in the position to call any of the other members responses hyprocritical.*


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## AngelicRose07 (Mar 22, 2005)

great thread!


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## Honeyhips (Mar 22, 2005)

thank you. I was actually thinking if someone came in my church with guns, just like that situation that jsut happened, I don't know what would I do. I think I'd run.  BUT that doesn't mean I wont die for him. 





			
				DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> I know most of you might not agree with me, but I would run. Why would I stay? To risk being killed for what? That is crazy to say that you are a hypocrite because you do not stay.
> Jesus and the apostles often had to run for their lives. They didn't sit around and say, "I'm taking a bullet for God", when they knew they had greater missions for God to do. When it was truly time according to God's will, Jesus gave up His life for our lives. Not just to prove a point that doesn't need proving anyway.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 22, 2005)

Both. God is everywhere. 





			
				DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> What is taken out of context? Is the Spirit of God within or does it live in a church building?


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## Poohbear (Mar 22, 2005)

I understand the ladies here who said they would run... that would be the normal human reaction to a dangerous situation.  No matter what a gunman said, in reality I'm sure it would be very hard for anyone to stay there in that situation for fear of their life.  But there's also the view that God will take care of me no matter what happens but God also doesn't want you to be ignorant. I just posted this as something for thought.  But it's interesting to read everyone's view and comments on the initial post I made.


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## Poohbear (Mar 22, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> So then the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of God are not one and the same as Christianity teaches (Trinity)?


Who said they were not one and the same? They ARE one and the same.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 22, 2005)

honeylove316 said:
			
		

> Okay, let me see if I can elucidate it for you. To address the first part of your question, God is spirit and the Holy Spirit indwells (lives inside) of His children. The spirit of God, which is God is omnipresent, meaning that it is everywhere at the same time. That never changes, saint or sinner. When you come to Christ, you recieve not only salvation, but sanctification(cleansing of sin),propitiation(regain God's favor) but you recieve the dispensation of the Holy Spirit. He is also called the Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener and Stand-by. That gift only comes through salvation.
> 
> When you have the Holy Spirit on the inside of you, it informs your choices, convicts you when you are doing wrong and it comforts you in need. More on that last part later. Think of God as three parts : Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are all one and the same, but each has a different relationship with us, but all are based on love and care for us.That's the best part.
> 
> ...



This post...confusing. God's spirit is everywhere, yet the Holy Spirit was not everywhere. It was sent after Jesus was crucified. So apparently they are two different Spirits, but in church I was always taught that they were one and the same (Trinity).


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## Poohbear (Mar 22, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> This post...confusing. God's spirit is everywhere, yet the Holy Spirit was not everywhere. It was sent after Jesus was crucified. So apparently they are two different Spirits, but in church I was always taught that they were one and the same (Trinity).


Oh okay. Well the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit. I think when she mentioned "spirit of God", she was making the point that God is a spirit and that He is everywhere. It can be confusing.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 22, 2005)

that's the part that confuses me...if the Spirit is everywhere...and always was...and always will be...then why did Jesus say that the Holy Spirit was coming after His crucifixion?


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## Honeyhips (Mar 22, 2005)

I thought the Holy Spirit came after Christ b/c that is when we needed it. It wasn't everywhere before b/c Christ was here on the Earth. But God was and is everywhere. I thought that Christ and the Holy Spirit were different parts of him.  





			
				DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> that's the part that confuses me...if the Spirit is everywhere...and always was...and always will be...then why did Jesus say that the Holy Spirit was coming after His crucifixion?


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 22, 2005)

What is the difference b/w the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit?

If they are different, then how can they be the same?  (Trinity)

So how was Jesus dead for 3 days...if He is God?


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## Poohbear (Mar 22, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> What is the difference b/w the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit?
> 
> If they are different, then how can they be the same? (Trinity)
> 
> So how was Jesus dead for 3 days...if He is God?


God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same.   They all work in different ways as far as our relationship with each part of God.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 22, 2005)

So pooh they are like 3 parts of the same person? Actually no. I found an answer to my own question. 



http://everystudent.com/trinity.html


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 22, 2005)

So God died when Jesus did for 3 days?

I know that Jesus said that He and God are one...but one what? 

And if Jesus is God, then why is He called the Son of God...clearly separating Him from God? 

And if Jesus is the same, equal to, God, then why did He have to go to the Father?

I got questions I tell ya! LOL...


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## stcsweet (Mar 22, 2005)

*Great questions! This is a difficult concept to grasp. 
The Bible is the self revelation of an infinite God.  Therefore, we are bound to encounter concepts which are difficult to understand -- especially when dealing with God who is beyond our understanding and who exists in all places at all times.   *  



			
				DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> So God died when Jesus did for 3 days?



*No*



			
				DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> I know that Jesus said that He and God are one...but one what?
> 
> And if Jesus is God, then why is He called the Son of God...clearly separating Him from God?
> 
> And if Jesus is the same, equal to, God, then why did He have to go to the Father?



*God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  Each of the persons is distinct from the other, yet related in essence.  

Each is divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the Godhead.  Each has a will, loves, and says "I", and "You" when speaking.  

The Father is not the same person as the Son who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit who is not the same person as the Father.  Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God.  

There is, apparently, a subordination within the Trinity in regard to order but not substance or essence.  The Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 5:26).  The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10).  The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26).  The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).


Here are more good scripture references:

Matt. 28:18, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 

1 Cor. 12:4-6, Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 

2 Cor. 13:14,  The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. 

Eph. 4:4-7, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 

1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure."

Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life." 

Sorry this was so long...  *


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## Poohbear (Mar 22, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> So pooh they are like 3 parts of the same person? Actually no. I found an answer to my own question.
> 
> 
> 
> http://everystudent.com/trinity.html


No I wasnt saying that. Its very hard to explain. All I know is that God is three-in-one...The Father, The Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. Three-in-one means Trinity. They are all the same.  

DelightfulFlame, check out the link that Honeyhips posted.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 22, 2005)

Thanks for the scripture & links! I'll check them out tomorrow, but I won't promise not to have questions...LOL. Thanks again for being good sports and posting info.


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## sugarsweet (Mar 23, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> So God died when Jesus did for 3 days?
> 
> I know that Jesus said that He and God are one...but one what?
> 
> ...


I think it was like a part of him diying GOD could never be totally dead.
Jesus had to ask god for permision out of respect we give ourselves permission everyday to do things like take time out for ourselves, going to work, feeling worthy, good and bad etc.it might be a concious effort and it minght not but it doesn't mean that it's not there.


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 23, 2005)

Here's the thing...if Jesus is God, and God could never die, then how come Jesus died?

For 3 days, Jesus was DEAD.


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## stcsweet (Mar 23, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> Here's the thing...if Jesus is God, and God could never die, then how come Jesus died?
> 
> For 3 days, Jesus was DEAD.



*Remember that:*



> The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 5:26). The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10). The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).



*
The most beautiful thing is that Jesus Christ shed His blood on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins!

"Who his own self bare OUR SINS in his own body on the tree,. . ." 1 Peter 2:24
" . . . Unto him that loved us, and washed us from OUR SINS in his own BLOOD," Revelation 1:5b

There's a great hymn that includes the words:
"What can wash away my sin? NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS!"*


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 23, 2005)

So doesn't that make them different? If they all do different things, then how are they the same?


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## stcsweet (Mar 23, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> So doesn't that make them different? If they all do different things, then how are they the same?


*
I'm going to use an analogy that's a little controversial, but hopefully it will help you.

We all know that water can take many different forms, right?

There is a liquid form, there is a solid form (ice), and there is a gaseous form (steam). Each of these forms is water, yet they have a different appearance and can always be traced back to the foundation, water.

We all know that God is much more than water. But, this illustrates that God is the basis for everything (even that which we cannot explain). God is in three forms (persons) - Father/Creator, Son, and Holy Spirit. 

They are one, however each interacts with us differently.

You may want to pray for God to settle your heart about this. There is much that we cannot fully understand.   

Revelation 22:13 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."*


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 23, 2005)

Thanks hon. I do pray, and He is showing me...which is why I have so many questions. I never know who He will use to show me the way. I cannot accept not knowing and leaving it at that though. There will always be things that I don't know. And things that I don't know that I don't know. But when I know that I don't know them, it is in my heart to find them out. Probably because God is getting me ready to show me the answer. So I just can't accept not knowing. The bible encourages seeking, so that's what I will do...probably until the day I die. 

Here's something interesting that I found at biblegateway.com.  Notice the difference b/w the kjv and the niv versions. The niv has an interesting side note...something to study for sure. 

1 John 5 (KJV)
6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 
7For there are *three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 
8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. *

---------------------------------------------------------------

1 John 5 (NIV)
6This is the one who came by water and blood–Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. *7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. *

*1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century) *


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## Poohbear (Mar 23, 2005)

*When Jesus was on earth, he was God in human form.  

God is...
1. The Father 
2. The Son (Jesus) 
3. The Holy Spirit. 

Also read John 1:1-14 where it talks about the Word being made flesh (God becoming man, that man being Jesus).*


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## Poohbear (Mar 23, 2005)

*You know what DL? You should start your own trinity thread! *


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## stcsweet (Mar 23, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> Thanks hon. I do pray, and He is showing me...which is why I have so many questions. I never know who He will use to show me the way. I cannot accept not knowing and leaving it at that though. There will always be things that I don't know. And things that I don't know that I don't know. But when I know that I don't know them, it is in my heart to find them out. Probably because God is getting me ready to show me the answer. So I just can't accept not knowing. The bible encourages seeking, so that's what I will do...probably until the day I die. [/b]



*There are many resources and opinions available on this this topic.

Here are some references to help you:*Carm.org 
Online Trinity 

*I hope this helps. Please update us on additional information you find.  *


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## DelightfulFlame (Mar 23, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> *You know what DL? You should start your own trinity thread! *



LOL...am I being put out?  For real, that's a good idea.


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## Lex_Artis (Mar 23, 2005)

DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> So doesn't that make them different? If they all do different things, then how are they the same?



Thanks for asking this question.  Its always been a point of confusion for me too.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 23, 2005)

I wasn't implying that you said that, I was trying to process it in my head and was asking you if my understanding was correct. 





			
				Poohbear said:
			
		

> No I wasnt saying that. Its very hard to explain. All I know is that God is three-in-one...The Father, The Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. Three-in-one means Trinity. They are all the same.
> 
> DelightfulFlame, check out the link that Honeyhips posted.


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## Honeyhips (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm learning too.  I'm going to talk to a couple of folks about it too. 


			
				DelightfulFlame said:
			
		

> Thanks for the scripture & links! I'll check them out tomorrow, but I won't promise not to have questions...LOL. Thanks again for being good sports and posting info.


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## EbonyEyes (Apr 1, 2005)

Being absolutely in love with Jesus (I probably would have been *all up under * Jesus as he gave his sermons.  He probably would have said to me "Can I breathe, Ebony?  Is that ok with you?"  LOL)  but a human with FEAR, I would probably run if someone came into the church with a gun.  I don't care what they say.  The Lord knows this about me.  And if I was wrong, may the Lord forgive me.

Jesus' own disciples turned their backs on him during Jesus' darkest hour.  Peter, the rock upon whom Jesus built his church, denied him three times!  I can only imagine the pain Jesus felt to have his closest friends turn away.  Can you imagine how Peter had to have felt realizing that he denied the son of God and the most amazing man that has ever and will ever walk this Earth?  Thank the Lord all mighty that Peter didn't committ suicide like Judas did.

But this is what I love about Jesus...He FORGAVE them!  He knew they would run because they were scared.  And he also knew that despite this mistake they made, they would eventually become amazing soldiers for Christ which they did!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think running away at the sight of a gun makes you a hypocrite. 

Piggy backing on what someone else said, out of those 20 people who stayed, 9 of them may have stayed because they were in such shock that they couldn't move!!  

And those two men who came in the church and did that were not doing God's work.  What they did was wrong and cruel.

After talking with my boyfriend about it, I'm starting to wonder if those 1,980 people who ran were even *wrong* to begin with for running.  It's not like the men told the congregation to denounce their faith in Christ!!!!  I told my bf the story and I'm paraphrasing his response:  "This story does not prove that those 20 people who stayed were Christians and those 1,980 people who fled were hypocrites.  If a man told you, 'If you believe in Jesus and that he will save you, jump off this building' would you do it?  Besides, God does not test your faith the way these men were."  

I really don't like this story.  

Let us remember that God gave Christians a beautiful gift and it is called COMMON SENSE!  Just because there is a Psalm that says "Though I may walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for thou art with me" doesn't mean that I should purposefully walk down a dark alley BY MYSELF in order to prove my faith in God.  I'm not saying that the 20 people who stayed were stupid but please keep in mind that common sense is a gift from God.

-Ebony


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## Poohbear (Apr 3, 2005)

EbonyEyes said:
			
		

> Being absolutely in love with Jesus (I probably would have been *all up under *Jesus as he gave his sermons. He probably would have said to me "Can I breathe, Ebony? Is that ok with you?" LOL) but a human with FEAR, I would probably run if someone came into the church with a gun. I don't care what they say. The Lord knows this about me. And if I was wrong, may the Lord forgive me.
> 
> Jesus' own disciples turned their backs on him during Jesus' darkest hour. Peter, the rock upon whom Jesus built his church, denied him three times! I can only imagine the pain Jesus felt to have his closest friends turn away. Can you imagine how Peter had to have felt realizing that he denied the son of God and the most amazing man that has ever and will ever walk this Earth? Thank the Lord all mighty that Peter didn't committ suicide like Judas did.
> 
> ...


*Great post!!!  *

*It's okay if you don't like it.  I understand everyone's view point on this whether they agree or disagree with the story. I was just seeing everyone's take on it... *

*Be blessed! *


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