# Tithe: A requirement for Christians?



## Shinka (Dec 30, 2005)

Should
Christians Tithe? 
AN IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS OF A MISUNDERSTOOD DOCTRINE
by: Kevin Whitehead

WHAT IS TITHING?

Tithing is the practice of giving one-tenth of one's income or possessions to one's leader. In Judaism, that leader was God. The first tithe recorded in the Bible was given by Abraham to Melchizedek, king of Salem. "....Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything." (Genesis 14:20) The next biblical mention of a tithe is when Jacob made a vow to God, saying, "...of all that you give me I will give you a tenth." (Genesis 28:22) Secular kings often demanded tithes as well, as a tax on the peoples they ruled. Samuel told the Israelites who were asking for a king that a king would "...take a tenth of your grain and your vintage..." as well as "...a tenth of your flocks." (1 Samuel 8:15,17)

Eventually, the tithe was codified into the Law of Moses, under which the Israelites were required to give three different tithes amounting to around 23% of their income. The first tithe was consumed by the giver each year during the annual temple feast. Regarding this tithe, the Israelites were instructed as follows: "...set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name...." (Deuteronomy 14:22-23) The second tithe was given annually to support the Levites: "I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance...." (Numbers 18:21) The third tithe was given once every three years for the support of the poor: "At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied...." (Deuteronomy 14:28-29; see also Deuteronomy 26:12)

The LORD commanded the Israelites to "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house...." (Malachi 3:10) "Christians are often urged to tithe based upon a mistaken appeal to this Old Testament text, which is wrested out of its rightful context, when applied to such a purpose....The storehouse is clearly the temple, not the church....Taken in context this passage lends no support to the mistaken doctrine of `storehouse tithing,' whereby Christians have been directed to restrict all their financial giving to their own denomination or local church, or as a variation, church members have been directed to pay the tithe to the local church, and restrict giving to outside organizations to amounts over and above the church tithe." (The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, Jerome Smith, p. 1026.)

In Christian theology, the Mosaic Law is usually divided into three parts: the moral, the ceremonial, and the judicial. The Ten Commandments comprise the moral part. The ceremonial part regulated the worship of Israel. The judicial part pertained to rights between men. However, the Law should be viewed as a unit. "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." (James 2:10) Obviously, "no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." (Romans 3:21) "...[T]he law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." (Galatians 3:24-25) Indeed, Christians need not be burdened under the law. "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." (Galatians 5:1)

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ demonstrated his deity by issuing several commands which supersede the Law. Six times he repeated the following couplet about various Mosaic commands: "You have heard that it was said......But I tell you..." (Matthew 5:21-22, 27-28, 31-32, 33-34, 38-39, 43-44) Each time he raised the standard of the Mosaic Law above that which was perceived to that which was intended. His final command fully encapsulated the intent of the Law -- holiness: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48). However, perfection was impossible under the Law. Therefore, Christ came as a priest in the order of Melchizedek. "If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood...,why was there still need for another priest to come -- one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?" (Hebrews 7:11)

Along with the change of the priesthood came a change of the law: "For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law." (Hebrews 7:12) "The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God." (Hebrews 7:18-19) "Now the Mosaic Law was done away in its entirety as a code. It has been replaced by the law of Christ. The law of Christ contains some new commands (1 Timothy 4:4), some old ones (Romans 13:9), and some revised ones....All of the laws of the Mosaic code have been abolished because the code has. Specific Mosaic commands which are part of the Christian code appear there not as a continuation of part of the Mosaic Law...but as specifically incorporated into that [Christian] code, and as such they are binding on believers today. A particular law that was part of the Mosaic code is done away; that same law, if part of the law of Christ, is binding." (Basic Theology, Charles C. Ryrie, p. 105)

The tithe, therefore, as a component of the Mosaic Law which was never restated as part of the law of Christ, does not apply to Christians. "While not requiring a tithe of believers today, the New Testament does speak of God's blessing on those who give generously to the needs of the church and especially to those who labor in the Word." (The Bible Knowledge Commentary: Old Testament, John F. Walvoord, Roy B. Zuck, p. 1585.) "Tithing is not taught in the New Testament as an obligation for the Christian under grace....Because we are not under law, but under grace, Christian giving must not be made a matter of legalistic obligation, lest we fall into the error of Galatianism...." (The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, Jerome Smith, p. 1152.)

GUIDELINES FOR CHRISTIAN GIVING

The absence of a command for tithing does not relieve Christians of the responsibility to give. Rather, Christians are held to the higher law of stewardship -- acknowledging that everything we have is a gift from God and being willing to give it all up at any moment that Christ commands (Matthew 19:21). The Bible specifies two main reasons for Christian giving.

First, Christians should provide for the needs of fellow Christians who are experiencing financial hardships. For example, while Barnabas and Saul were ministering in Antioch, "...some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.) The disciples, each according to his own ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea. This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul." (Acts 11:27-30) Later in Paul's ministry, he gave instruction to other churches that they also should give to the poor Christians in Jerusalem. To the Christians in Corinth he wrote: "Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made." (1 Corinthians 16:1-2) Later, he explained to the Christians in Rome, "...Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem." (Romans 15:26) Today's Christians should follow these examples and provide for the needs of our brothers and sisters in Christ who are in financial distress.

A second reason for Christian giving is to support Christian leaders. Paul wrote to the Corinthians that "...those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel." (1 Corinthians 9:14) To the Galatians, he wrote: "Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor." (Galatians 6:6) Note that Christians are not restricted to giving only to one's local fellowship. Instead, Christians should give to those who disciple them, whether within their local fellowship or not.

The final question remains -- how much should Christians give? Each Christian "...should give what he has decided in his own heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7) No set amount or percentage of income is dictated, rather, "...if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have." (2 Corinthians 8:12)

In summary, Christians should not subject themselves to the Old Testament law of the tithe. Instead, they should give according to the following four New Testament guidelines. Christian giving should be:
· Proportional to one's income (1 Corinthians 16:2, 2 Corinthians 8:12)
· Consistent (1 Corinthians 16:2)
· Sacrificial (Mark 12:43-44, 2 Corinthians 8:2-3)
· Cheerful (2 Corinthians 9:7)

Christians should live their lives open-handed -- acknowledging that they are merely stewards of God's possessions. They should always be willing to give 100% of that which they steward at any time required by the Lord (Matthew 19:21). Indeed, they should even be willing to offer their very "...bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God...." (Romans 12:1)


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## Shinka (Dec 30, 2005)

Here the link to the website. http://www.mindspring.com/~k.w/tithe/tithe.html

The FAQ questions link at the end of the article is very helpful.


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## Supergirl (Dec 30, 2005)

I actually agree with this.  I tbelieve that tithing is part of the Old Testament Law, but not a requirement under the New Covenant of Christ.

I do tithe and give out of my love for the Lord, and I know that finances are necessary to keep churches running and for helping in the building of His kingdom.


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## star (Dec 30, 2005)

Tithing is not just money. It is *time, talent and money* or your stewardship. Jesus came and built on the laws of the old testment and says give according to your income(I will find the scripture later) this actually means above *10% for *some people. This is why the many churches ask for *tithes and offerings*. I do not believe we should abolish the old testment teachings we should use the old testament as a foundation for your giving. Christians should give at minumium of 10% of their money and give their time and talent to help build up the kingdom of God. Tithes is what we *owe God *and the offering is above and beyond.


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## fivefoursweetie (Dec 30, 2005)

Personally I feel that tithing is less about money and more about obediance, gratitude and trust.  We would have nothing if it weren't for God, so to give 10% I feel, shows that you respect and are gratful for what God has done for you and you are giving something back as a sacrifice.  If FICA  can get more than 10% in taxes, than I think we can give God 10%.
I regularlly tithe and give offerings, and for me, the more I give, the more I get...God has blessed me emensely.  I don't look at it as a requirement, yet as something I want to give.
Just wondering...do others feel like they mind giving tithes, or is it a burden to them?  Cause I think it's about the attitude of the heart that matters too, not the action.  Please give some feedback


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (Dec 30, 2005)

fivefoursweetie said:
			
		

> Personally I feel that tithing is less about money and more about obediance, gratitude and trust. We would have nothing if it weren't for God, so to give 10% I feel, shows that you respect and are gratful for what God has done for you and you are giving something back as a sacrifice. If FICA  can get more than 10% in taxes, than I think we can give God 10%.
> I regularlly tithe and give offerings, and for me, the more I give, the more I get...God has blessed me emensely. I don't look at it as a requirement, yet as something I want to give.
> Just wondering...do others feel like they mind giving tithes, or is it a burden to them? Cause I think it's about the attitude of the heart that matters too, not the action. Please give some feedback


 
What she said.


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## Enchantmt (Dec 31, 2005)

The article seems sound,  tho I only skimmed it. This is a touchy subject for many, especially if raised in a church that bases blessings on tithing and uses guilt and other tactics to get folx to comply. 

God will bless you simply because you are His child. We are under grace. Works gain you nothing as far as salvation goes. You *are* instructed to give, but we are no longer under bondage of the law and, like animal sacrifices and other things that are no longer required, we are not required to give based on a specific amount as a law. Your heart in giving is more important the the amount. I believe we should give our best, but there should be no guilt or condemnation surrounding giving. We are to give freely as we are lead to give. 

Tithing was part of old Jewish law. Scripture tells us we are not required to practice Jewish law to be justified, we are justified by faith. This was dealt with in Galatians when the Jews were trying to get the gentiles to observe Jewish law for cirumcision. The gentiles were buying into this and basically regressing spirtually, as Christ freed us from these laws. 

The law was an *external* guide designed to keep folx in line until Christ came and for folx to see the need for a Savior, as no one could keep the law in full. As Christians we have the Holy Spirit *internally* to guide us. 

Under the old covenant you had to keep all of the law, if you missed one part, you missed all of it. Jesus was the only one to keep the law perfectly, He fulfilled the law and gave us a new covenant. If you observe tithing as *law* then you must keep the ENTIRE Jewish law, and the sacrifice Jesus made  to free you was for nothing as you are putting yourself under the bondage of the law again.


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## Jewell (Dec 31, 2005)

I tithe and I was taught about tithes and offerings at a young age, but as with everything, individual values and beliefs set the tone.  I tithe so that there might be "meat in my house" and so that my finances are not cursed. Its a part of my life.  For me, offerings give increase.  Its tried and true in my life.

I have no problem with tithes and offerings because I have been blessed. I do believe that it is a requirement for Christians.  If I can spend money on this and that, I would be ashamed to be so stingy and not freely and cheerfully give to God what he has been so gracious to bless me with.


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## Isis (Dec 31, 2005)

Jewell said:
			
		

> I tithe and I was taught about tithes and offerings at a young age, but as with everything, individual values and beliefs set the tone. I tithe so that there might be "meat in my house" and so that my finances are not cursed. Its a part of my life. *For me, offerings give increase. Its tried and true in my life.*
> 
> I have no problem with tithes and offerings because I have been blessed. I do believe that it is a requirement for Christians. If I can spend money on this and that, I would be ashamed to be so stingy and not freely and cheerfully give to God what he has been so gracious to bless me with.


I believe this too and I have tithed throughout my adult life.  I believe tithing is important wherever one gets one's spiritual support and knowledge, which can be at church.


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## Shinka (Dec 31, 2005)

The reason I posted this is because I would listen to sermons and read the tithe passages in the old testament and it didn't seem right to force people to do out of guilt.  It didn't make sense to me that we didn't follow other old testament laws but this one was okay.  I was really torn and I felt bad when I couldn't give my 10%.  It not that I didn't want to but because on have a very small income as I am a college student and working.  I myself cover my family's expenses, 

I really looked to God, I didn't necessarily pray for an answer but it really caused some anxiety because I want to do the right thing and not pick and choose God's ways to follow.  So I found this article as I was researching tithing with a good heart to understand not to avoid it.  I read the biblical passages and chapters sited in this article etc.

If I was To give 10% of by income, It would have taken away from my food or rent or electric bill, as things I know that God has given me money to pay for.  I know that God wants me to be clothed and feed. Also not to be indebted to others.  So through this article and the passages of the new testament.  I understand as long as i give sacrificiously and cheerfully I can still recieved my blessings and am honor God for the people He has given the gift to TEACH and spread the Word.  Now I also understand to give according to my income.  Giving also includes time, giving to the poor so they may have, etc.

My anxiety is no longer there, God has set no minimum amount other to give persistently, sacrificiously, and cheerfully.

While 10% might be a goal for some, my amount is the amount that I can give after the money that lord has allowed me to earn covers my living expenses..I mean the basics. food, heat, electric, rent, and at least min payments for debt (not luxuries).  I don't see that as putting God last. God is providing for me first because I am his child, God and Jesus order us to pay taxes because no authority is created without God ( I think that's in 1 or 2 Cor.).  It's just that the taxes are taken out automatically.  Therefore I don't need to ask how will I be clothed or Feed or prevent from being indebt to another becoming their slave ( I can only serve one God).

Then, I will give, before I buy more books or toys or whatever luxuries after that.  In reality, by then I have no money for luxuries.

It doesn't make sense to me that God wants us to suffer or lack in essentials to provide for the church building, the pastors food, and give to the poor.  Then we'll have to ask (Jesus says not ask this) how will I be feed, clothed etc.  In Ecclesiatics( sorry for spellling) says Money is the answer for everything.  God gives money or allows the ability to earn money to cover your living expenses. Food is a necessity, clothes a necessity (excess clothes or shopping every weekend, not a necessity).  

If by giving your money away you can't pay for those essential things...but provide for some else to have those things.  It doesn't make sense to me, you're not giving according to your income.  Although I do believe that in sudden diasters, etc we may give more than we can in sacrifice of a whole chicken or some corn for some else to have a meal or a place to stay. However, everytime giving more than you can afford will make you debt increase because they you need to borrow to cover essentials or your may become anxious, depress , or worry which we are also instructed not to do.

I believe:
God gives us what we need.  When he Blesses in excess of what we need, then we should that away.  If that's time, give time. Money give money, gifts give gifts.  If all of the above, give it all.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Dec 31, 2005)

Enchantment, I did not read your whole post, but your first comment really grabbed me.  I HATE when ministers try to co-erce their members or visitors into giving. This results in giving out of compulsion and you will not be blessed for this type of giving. It doesn't take a genius to know that churches require upkeep, but please don't spend 30 minutes about why you should give to a ministry simply because you reviewed your budget before coming in the sanctuary and you noticed you were in the hole (sorry for the run on sentence.) When some ministers try this technique, it places a damper on the joy of giving. 
Sometimes I feel that some ministries are so focused on keeping a building (or adding to that building) that they forget about those who are on the inside of the church or the outside that desperately need help. I am visiting a ministry now that I feel so good about giving to this particular ministry because they go out of the building to assist others.


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## arizona (Dec 31, 2005)

Bublnbrnsuga,
I agree with both of you. I am a christian and I tithe. However, the whole 10% and tithing your rent money because you "ought to have faith" is not scriptural to me. Just my 13 cents.

~AZ


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Dec 31, 2005)

arizona said:
			
		

> Bublnbrnsuga,
> *I agree with both of you. I am a christian and I tithe. However, the whole 10% and tithing your rent money because you "ought to have faith" is not scriptural to me. Just my 13 cents.*
> 
> ~AZ




Exactly. Now tell me that those people are freely giving their rent money-NOT! They are giving out of fear and God did not give us a spirit of fear. I get really angry when some leaders evoke guilt upon people who want to please God but are torn about what to do.  The saying 'God knows my heart' has been used so much when people try to make themselves feel better about their sin to the point where I despise it, but when it comes to giving, God definitely knows your heart.


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## LovelyZ (Jan 4, 2006)

Shinka, thank you for posting this. It is very insightful and a topic so relevant. My husband and I often have "intense fellowship" about tithing. He is a devout Catholic and I am Baptist. He resents the Baptist denomination because many prominent ministers seem to flaunt luxury cars and homes and always beg their less affluent congregation for money.

I tell him that tithes is about obedience to the Lord but he believes the ministers are insincere and therefore should not receive 10% of our income. I find this article freeing because I feel so guilty that I am not tithing, but I plan to read the Bible verses mentioned in the article and pray on this in hopes that I can be obedient to God without being bound to the 10% minimum.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 4, 2006)

Shinka said:
			
		

> The reason I posted this is because I would listen to sermons and read the tithe passages in the old testament and it didn't seem right to force people to do out of guilt.  It didn't make sense to me that we didn't follow other old testament laws but this one was okay.  I was really torn and I felt bad when I couldn't give my 10%.  It not that I didn't want to but because on have a very small income as I am a college student and working.  I myself cover my family's expenses,
> 
> I really looked to God, I didn't necessarily pray for an answer but it really caused some anxiety because I want to do the right thing and not pick and choose God's ways to follow.  So I found this article as I was researching tithing with a good heart to understand not to avoid it.  I read the biblical passages and chapters sited in this article etc.
> 
> ...




It is so funny that you posted this! God led me to several scriptures and indepth study on this very issue last year. I pretty much came to the same conclusion, that the 10% is not required of Christians any longer. This seems to be the only Old Testament law that we have held onto. I understand why, but like you said, some churches have gone to extremes to scare people into giving 10%, when God never mandated Christians to do so. It shocked me to find that God didn't even require everyone to tithe in the Old Testament. Studying it for myself was a real eye-opener!

However, we are instructed to give, and I can understand why it's easier for all Christians to follow the 10% rule as set forth by the church. I was always taught that if you don't tithe, you won't be blessed, and that couldn't be further from the truth. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I saw the same thing you did, and I agree with you.


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## CurliDiva (Jan 5, 2006)

My church is very money hungry! I warn family and friend who visit my church that we have at least 4 collections each service, so space your money out.

One for missionary work, One for church offerings, One for pastor love offering, and One for any committee anniversary or special event.

No only are you expected to give to all (we walk the pastor’s offering to the altar, so people can tell if you don't get up), but my senior pastor sometimes announce the amount that he wants people to match, like $50 for the male usher anniversary.  

I


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## JuJuBoo (Jan 5, 2006)

fivefoursweetie said:
			
		

> Personally I feel that tithing is less about money and more about obediance, gratitude and trust.  We would have nothing if it weren't for God, so to give 10% I feel, shows that you respect and are gratful for what God has done for you and you are giving something back as a sacrifice.  If FICA  can get more than 10% in taxes, than I think we can give God 10%.
> I regularlly tithe and give offerings, and for me, the more I give, the more I get...God has blessed me emensely.  I don't look at it as a requirement, yet as something I want to give.
> Just wondering...do others feel like they mind giving tithes, or is it a burden to them?  Cause I think it's about the attitude of the heart that matters too, not the action.  Please give some feedback



*I'm in 100% agreement.* God has poured out so much blessing I don't even know where it's all coming from! The absolute least I could do is offer 10%.


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## Honeyhips (Jan 7, 2006)

I'd like to hear how or see what you all studied that brought you to the conclusion that we don't have to tithe and it wasn't from God.  It sounds interesting. TIA


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## Shinka (Jan 7, 2006)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I'd like to hear how or see what you all studied that brought you to the conclusion that we don't have to tithe and it wasn't from God.  It sounds interesting. TIA



Read the first post.  The biblical passages he references throughout, read them in your bible ( read the passages before them for context).  Or paulawhiteministry.org has an online bible too.


1 and 2nd corithians ( i can't spell sorry).  Are two good chapters to read in general to understand alot of New convenant.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 9, 2006)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I'd like to hear how or see what you all studied that brought you to the conclusion that we don't have to tithe and it wasn't from God.  It sounds interesting. TIA



The quick answer to this is that it's not scriptural. Jesus doesn't tell Christians to tithe one time in the New Testament. Paul admonished Christians to GIVE, but only what God instructed them in their hearts to give, and not grudgingly or OUT OF COMPULSION.

The long answer is that the tithe was an Old Testament law, a part of Mosaic Law. There were actually 3 different tithes, and they each had a different purpose. Jesus came to fulfill the law, and when he died, the law was fulfilled. Tithing is the only Mosaic Law that is still in effect in most churches today. And even then, they aren't practicing the tithe that God commanded, but that's another story.

Another interesting tidbit is that Jews today don't even tithe. Under the tithe law, only Levitical priests are/were authorized to recieve the tithe from the people. Jews today refuse to collect the tithes because they can't prove that they are descended from Levites, and therefor don't want to be out of order. (Christians preachers apparently have no problem with that little technicality). Furthermore, Jesus was the last Levitical Priest, and again, with His death came fulfillment of that law (fulfillment meaning end, and completion).

Here is an article on the subject:
http://www.wjtg.org/mailboxclub/Tithing/Tithing lesson 2/page 8.htm

I'll have to dig up my other notes and come back with those, but it really is a fascinating subject. My mom is starting to look into it for herself. 

I'm not against tithing. If a person feels that God is leading them to give 10%, then that person should give 10%! What I'm against is the incorrect teaching of the tithe, and the deceit and fear-mongering going on in churches. If people knew the truth, they would be free to decide for themselves.


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## Southernbella. (Jan 9, 2006)

Ok, I found some of my notes (bolding mine):

2 Chorinthians 9:7- Each man should give what he has DECIDED in his heart, not grudgingly or under cumpulsion *(you decide what to give. No mention of tithes or 10%)*

Leviticus 27:32- ...every tenth animal that passes under the rod of the shepherd will be holy to the Lord. *(Notice that it was not the first animal of ten, but the last of ten, which is different from the teaching that you tithe 10% off the top of your gross income.)*

Leviticus 27:31- If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of value to it. *(There was a penalty, or punishment, for paying your tithes in actual money. )*

Deut 12:6- And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: And there ye shall EAT before the Lord your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, YE and YOUR HOUSEHOLDS, wherein the Lord thy God hath blessed thee *(They brought the tithes to the house of the Lord and ate of them in His presence)*

[5] Numbers 18:24-28, "But the TITHES of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance. *(In order to for a man to claim the tithes and offerings, he had to be a Levite, because that was who God gave the tithes to as an inheritance. He would then be authorized to offer them up to the Lord. There are no more Levitical priests today.)*

II Cor. 8:10-12-I want to suggest that you finish what you started to do a year ago, for you were not only the first to propose this idea, but the first to begin doing something about it. Having started the ball rolling so enthusiastically, you should carry this project through to completion just as gladly, GIVING WHATEVER YOU CAN OUT OF WHATEVER YOU HAVE. Let your enthusiastic idea at the start be equaled by your realistic action now. If you are really EAGER TO GIVE, then it isn't important HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO GIVE. God wants you to give WHAT YOU HAVE, NOT WHAT YOU HAVEN'T *(Paul's instructions to the Gentiles. Never mentions tithing or 10%)*

Malachi 3:8-10, "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings…" *(The nation of Israel was under a curse becasue the Levite priests were not bringing the whole tithe into the storehouse for the Levites to get their allotments. The whole town was to partake of the tithe, not just the priests. The fact that the priests were misusing the tithe made God angry.)*

*(This scripture iss referenced by the one above)* Nehemiah 13:10-12 I also learned that the portions as assigned to the Levites had not been given to them, and that all Levites and singers responsible for service had gone back to their own fields. So I rebuked the officials and asked them "Why is the house of God neglected?" Then I called them together and stationed them at their posts. All Judah brougth the tithes of grain, new wine, and oil into the storerooms. *(All of the Levites were to be given part of the tithe to eat of in the presence of God. The weren't being given their allotment.)*

Gen. 28:20-22, "And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, IF God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and [if God] will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, So that I come again to my father’s house in peace; THEN shall the Lord be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shall GIVE ME I will surely give the TENTH unto thee *(Jacob promised to give God a tenth, contigent upon God blessing him first. We are taught the other way around. That if you don't give your tenth, God will not bless you.)*

Leviticus 25:3-6, For six years sow your fields, and for six years prune your vineyards and gather their crops. 4 But in the seventh year the land is to have a sabbath of rest, a sabbath to the LORD. Do not sow your fields or prune your vineyards. 5 Do not reap what grows of itself or harvest the grapes of your untended vines. The land is to have a year of rest. 6 Whatever the land yields during the sabbath year will be food for you—for yourself, your manservant and maidservant, and the hired worker and temporary resident who live among you *( note that in the seventh year, there was a sabbatical, or rest. Nobody was to sow, prune, or reap anything that grew. The land was to rest. Anything that DID grow was to be consumed by the farmer, his family, and his workers. Hence, no tithe at all every seventh year.*

Concerning the priests/pastors in the ministry receiving their pay:

Deu.14:27-29 (God's commandment to the Israelites) "You shall not forsake the Levite... at the end of EVERY THIRD YEAR you shall BRING THE TITHE of your produce of THAT YEAR and store it up WITHIN YOUR GATES. And the LEVITE, and the FATHERLESS and the WIDOW... may come and eat and be satisfied, that the Lord your God may BLESS YOU in all the work of your hand which you do." *(This tithe was used for the man of God and those who had nothing. Only the tithe of every third year was stored up for the priests, and it was taken to the actual storehouse, which was different from the place of worship where they would normally eat their tithe. This happened every third year.)*

*Also, the only times tithing is mentioned in the New testament is here (similarly in Luke 11:42):*

 Matthew 23:23: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others." *(Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, who were still under Mosaic Law, and required to tithe)*

 Hebrews 7:1-10: For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace. Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he abides a priest perpetually. Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils. And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham. But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham, and blessed the one who had the promises. But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater. And in this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him." *(references the first tithe, which was before the law, where Abraham tithed one tenth of hsi spoils from war to Melchizideck. This tithe was not commanded, it was voluntary. It also references the Levitical preisthood)*

 Luke 18:12: "I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get." *(Jesus tells a parable about a pharisee and a tax collector. The Pharisee was still under law to tithe.)*

Once Jesus died, and fulfilled the law, tithing was never mentioned again, just like sacrificing burnt offerings, eating certain foods, and other Mosaic laws. Romans tells us that we are no longer under law, but under grace. There are mor scriptures in the New Testament that exhort Christians to give based on what is in their heart, and proportionate to what they are able. ( 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,* as God hath prospered him*, that there be no gatherings when I come.)


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## Honeyhips (Jan 9, 2006)

Shinka said:
			
		

> Read the first post. The biblical passages he references throughout, read them in your bible ( read the passages before them for context). Or paulawhiteministry.org has an online bible too.
> 
> 
> 1 and 2nd corithians ( i can't spell sorry). Are two good chapters to read in general to understand alot of New convenant.


I did. I wanted to hear what those who have researched this on their own came up with. Not just the article posted.


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## firecracker (Jan 10, 2006)

fivefoursweetie said:
			
		

> Personally I feel that tithing is less about money and more about obediance, gratitude and trust. We would have nothing if it weren't for God, so to give 10% I feel, shows that you respect and are gratful for what God has done for you and you are giving something back as a sacrifice. If FICA  can get more than 10% in taxes, than I think we can give God 10%.
> I regularlly tithe and give offerings, and for me, the more I give, the more I get...God has blessed me emensely. I don't look at it as a requirement, yet as something I want to give.
> Just wondering...do others feel like they mind giving tithes, or is it a burden to them? Cause I think it's about the attitude of the heart that matters too, not the action. Please give some feedback


 
ITA  I title and give offering because I feel like I am stealing if I don't.  As for the constant badgering and listing in the Sunday program of who has paid their tithe I find it repulsive.


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## Queenie (Jan 12, 2006)

Thank you for these posts. I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who believes tithing applys to the old testment and many preachers take it to guilt people into giving more than there are.

I think that, in many cases ,people could be giving a lot more and don't, but that is between them and God. More churches should be offering help w/peoples budgets first. For most people, when they get their finances under control they will naturally give more.


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## Enchantmt (Jan 16, 2006)

Queenie said:
			
		

> More churches should be offering help w/peoples budgets first. For most people, when they get their finances under control they will naturally give more.




Joyce Meyer has a series on getting out of debt this week. If you arent home during the broadcast times,  she has her daily broadcasts available on her website,  http://www.joycemeyer.org


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## MonaLisa (Apr 16, 2006)

_*This is just an excerpt of something I came across (I did not write this piece), the full piece can be viewed with the link provided at the end:*_


Here are the simple facts regarding the Biblical teaching of tithing:*ONLY LANDOWNERS TITHED*
*ONLY PRODUCTS OF THE LAND WERE TITHED*
*ONLY LEVITES COULD RECEIVE THE TITHES*
*TITHING WAS A LAW OF MOSES*
*CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES! *

Does anyone have a Scripture that contradicts what I have just said? 
​By the way, Jesus Christ was a carpenter by trade, and as such, JESUS DID NOT TITHE! 
*GIVING IS VOLUNTARY*​ 

The New Testament teachings on giving are unpretentiously simplistic involving the heart and not some law:*"…freely ye have received, freely give" *(Matt. 10:8b).

*"Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of you turn not thou away" *(Matt. 5:42).
​*"The churches in Macedonia and Achaia, you see, have thought it a good thing to make a contribution towards the poor Christians in Jerusalem. They have decided to do this, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the gentiles have had a share in the Jews’ spiritual good things it is only fair that they should look after the Jews as far as the good things of this world are concerned" *(Rom. 15:26-27, _J. B. Phillips Translation_).


*"Give and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over…" *(Luke 6:38).

*"I have showed you all things, how that so laboring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how He said, It is more blessed to give than to receive" *(Acts 20:35).


*"But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity *[Gk: ‘compulsion’ as in a commanded law]*: for God loves a cheerful giver" *(II Cor. 9:6-7).


Follow these admonitions on giving and you will be blessed of God.

There is one more very important Scripture that should go in this group and that is I Tim. 5:8, 

*"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own household, he has denied the faith, and worse than an infidel."*

Now I have emails and letters from elderly and disabled people who were told by their pastor that they are expected to tithe on their meager income regardless as to whether there is sufficient left over to care for the family. This is disgraceful beyond comprehension. And this is one of the main reasons that I write the material that I do for our bible-truths web site.
​Numerous times I have heard ministers intimidating TBN viewers to contribute money that they did not have. Even if they owed more money to creditors in monthly payments than their salaries could possibly pay, they were still asked to make huge donations to TBN. Some contend that the more money one needs to meet his already staggering obligations, the more money he needs to send in. 

They are even told to pledge huge amounts (TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS was the asking pledge when last I saw this reprehensible carnival sideshow chicanery) of money that they did not have, and then to send in ten percent of the pledge and pay the rest off in installments. Have they no shame?


*"HOW ARE WE TO PAY THE CHURCH BILLS*​
*IF THE PEOPLE DON’T TITHE?"*​
I get asked that question regularly. I tell them all the same thing: "Pay your church bills the same way I pay my living expenses—with a check." Here’s the thing: You don’t need to lie and deceive and pervert the word of God in order to pay church expenses. 

Why doesn’t your pastor just ask the people to contribute toward paying the church expenses? I can tell you why. A few do, but most don’t. And why is that? It is because those who teach false doctrines to exact money illegally from their congregation don’t have faith to trust their people to contribute voluntarily out of love. 

They only know how to teach the Old Testament laws, which are carnal, and therefore don’t know how to teach the New Testaments laws, which are SPIRITUAL.
Most pastors see two options: 

Teach that people will be cursed if they don’t tithe ten percent of their annual salaries, 

Trust God in faith to provide the money from voluntary gifts given from the heart. 
If, in reality, trusting would bring in more money than pronouncing curses, no one would ever hear a sermon on tithing again, anywhere on earth. And if anyone suggested to any of these same pastors that tithing is an Old Testament law that Christians must keep or be cursed, those same pastors would ridicule you to scorn for ever suggesting such an obvious unscriptural doctrine that is not binding on New Testament Christians. 

They will do whatever brings in the most money. And it is a proven fact, unscriptural threats of curses for no tithing, and blessings for tithing brings in more money than trusting the people, in faith, to supply the needs of the Church.

It is our hope and intention here at bible-truths to free as many as possible from the unscriptural hypnotic tactics of these TV auctioneers who peddle the Word of God like so much merchandise for sordid gain. But what about those small congregations that don’t even want huge cathedrals and the pastor doesn’t want to be rich or drive a $80,000 Mercedes. 

All they want is to preach the gospel and care for a local congregation and all that that involves. Surely it is not wrong for them to teach their congregation to tithe their salaries to the church, is it? Of course that is wrong. That’s like saying, I don’t want to rob a bank: I just want to take a few small things from the super market without paying for them! IT’S THE SAME CRIME, with the only difference being the amount stolen.

http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html


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## MonaLisa (Apr 16, 2006)

http://www.letusreason.org/Wf34.htm

No other Scripture has had greater mileage than Malachi 3:10 “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.” Malachi 3 has been greatly misused for God's blessing to come to his people. A closer look of this verse in the context shows that it has nothing to do with wealth or material blessings. We first find this same term used by God back in Genesis 7:11 the windows of heaven were open and rain contributed to the flood, as the fountains of the deep were broken open. In Genesis 8:2 it says the windows of heaven were stopped and the rain from heaven was restrained. Isaiah 24:18 it also mentions the windows from on high; this phrase is consistently used for water. In Genesis it was a judgment. In Malachi 3 it was to be a blessing on their crops. The nation lived by their agriculture (Husbandry) and depended upon the rain. God's blessing had to do with his provision of water; no rain and they would starve. If they did not give God their tithes which was part of the blessing in the Mosaic covenant God would bring a curse on them, the ground would not yield food because he would not allow it to rain.

By the nation Israel tithing under the Law of Moses, they were to trust God acknowledging that everything belongs to Him. It is impossible to tithe as given to Moses, for it was mostly agricultural. Today we hear that we are to obey the tithe law. The tithes were not gifts, they were taxes, tithes were given in addition to other numerous offerings which ended up to be over 22% (not just 10%). Under the law if you were only giving 10 percent on your tithes you would still be robbing God. One tithe was used to support the Levites (Numbers 18:21-32), who were not allowed to own property like the other tribes of Israel. However, this tithe from the people brought to the Levitical priests was not just money. The goods the Levites received would provide their living for their work in the tabernacle. They also were to tithe on part of the goods that they received, and were to dedicate to the Lord a tenth to the office of the high priest (Numbers 18:21-28). 

It was the Levites who were to “bring up the tenth of the tithes to the house of our God, to the chambers of the storehouse” (Nehemiah 10:38). The Malachi passage that so many use to prove we are to tithe is not rebuking the people, he is rebuking the Levites for keeping the tithe that went to them. 

When modern day prosperity teachers use this verse on the people to be faithful, but they are really pointing at themselves-except they are biblically ignorant to recognize what it's actually saying. 

1 Timothy 1:5-7 “Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.” The New Testament teaches grace giving, tithing was not a freewill cheerful giving, it was a commandment in Moses' law to a nation under God, Israel. Nowhere in the New Testament does it require any obligation or a legal portion of ones income.

Prosperity teachers who promote tithing like to point out that Jesus commanded tithing. In the New Testament tithe and tithing are found eight times (Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; 18:12; Hebrews 7:5-6,8-9). All of these passages refer to the Old Testament usage under the law. Tithing was still practiced under the law when Jesus was on earth, however, the only time Jesus mentioned the tithe was a rebuke to the religious leaders “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. In Matthew 23:23 he explains they “have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.” These you ought to have done” 

Here Jesus makes it clear that living the life of faith toward God included love toward man and was more necessary than what you give to God; and this was under the law, not grace. Think about what is Jesus addressing? Justice, the Pharisees were unfair in the in dealings with the people, they ripped them off in their sacrifices brought to the temple. Mercy, they had none, everyone had to be as religious (spiritual) as they were. They constantly looked down upon people, remember the story Jesus told of “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.” The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men-- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess. “And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' “I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Luke 18:10-14).

So we see giving is not enough to make one justified before God, yet many have been convinced to rely on their obedience in this area to have God's blessings.


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## MonaLisa (Apr 16, 2006)

Some teach tithing is the only way the local church is to be supported and tithing to the local church determines a person's spirituality, some have gone as far as to suppose that tithing is a requirement of salvation, if one does not give 10% they are not a true Christian. Some teach from Malachi 3 that you are cursed! What manipulation. If you want to understand the book of Malachi, read Malachi 4:4, “Remember the Law of Moses…” its not just tithing. If you choose by obligation to submit yourself to even part of the Law of Moses, you are obligated to keep it all. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the Law, to perform them” (Galatians 3:10). It is actually the opposite, if you tithe by obligation then you are bound by all the law. Galatians 5:4 explains “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”

If you run into financial difficulties and are unable to feed your family or pay the mortgage, you are not obligated to continue giving 10% to the church. The Apostle Paul said in 1 Tim 5:8, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” This is ones first ministry; rest assured the church will get along without your money.

If you have set aside money for your family needs, but do not use it for them and instead pay it to a church or a ministry as tithes, or as an offering of seed to get out of debt your are not being a good steward. If you owe money on your house don't fall for the scammers that say the $1,000 you have saved for the mortgage will not pay for the house so send it in as a seed to get more money. They are feeding on your carnal nature and making you covet--be responsible to God. Scripture does not teach to give more than you can afford, nor give so God can give you more. There was no mention of the poor becoming rich in the gospel, Jesus did not promise a hundred-fold blessing. “For there are many unruly, vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision: whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucere's sake” (Titus 1:10-11). Their motivation is money, what is your motivation? It has been said “He that serves God for money will serve the Devil for better wages”(Roger L'eStrange). What did Jesus tell us, you can't serve God and Mammon at the same time.

If your family is hungry and you need help to pay the rent you shouldn't be obligated to tithe the church should instead be helping you-willingly. That is what they are there for. We have this example in the early church (Acts 4:37). It is to be the “love of Christ that constrains us” (2 Corinthians 5:14). For it is the heart of God to help those in need, in money if necessary. We as the church should be looking for opportunities to give to those less fortunate around us not to those who already have it all. I hear of too many stories of rich ministries being supported for years and then someone who is hurting asks for some help and they get none.

Where is your motivation? Is it of legalism, by law, or from the heart. It is to be the Lord Jesus reaching out and meeting the needs of others through us -- love is the principle that governs the Christians life, it is active not passive. “Though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not (His) love, it profits me nothing (1 Corinthians 13:3). Yes you can actually give it all away as required and still not do it as a response from your heart.

Then there is the rich young ruler who gives us all an example. Mark 10:21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.” The man could not do this. Jesus did not tell the man to tithe to him. After the rich man left Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” (Mark 10:23) Those who had less were often able to respond more easily because it did not get in the way, they had less to give up to follow Him.
Jesus did not teach to give to his ministry but to help the less fortunate “Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail” (Luke 12:33-34). Zacchaeus understood this and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.” And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham” (Luke 19:8-9). Want to be blessed, don't give to get more, give from your heart to others that are needy because it is the right thing to do.

Our giving is to be voluntary, willing, and cheerful as an offering. As believers we are to be generous by sharing our material possessions with the needy and support Christian ministries (authentic ones). 

Every Christian should give to the place they are fed by and support the work that is taking place in their own community by the local church they attend. Giving to our church, missionaries, wherever we think the need is greater or where the Holy Spirit may put on our heart. Other offerings would be for ministries they would like to bless in their work. 

In principle, 10 percent may be a good goal; some may be able to give much more, some less. One should not be made guilty for whatever amount they give; the only requirement in the New Testament is to give cheerfully and willingly (Romans 12:6,8; 2 Corinthians 9:7). Tithing to get out of debt is not the answer for relieving anyone of any money problems; it's not a Biblical practice but a myth started by the prosperity teachers of seed faith. We need to teach responsibility in handling our money. It’s time to give to those who really need the support for God's work.

The New Testament when it speaks about giving goes against “tithing as a doctrine. 2 Cor. 9:7 says, “Every man according as he purposed in his heart, so let him give: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.” Notice there is no amount mentioned, it what you have settled in your own heart. The Greek word for cheerful is _hilaros_, it is the English word “hilarious,” meaning give in a joyful, cheery, and exuberant manner. 

We should be happy and joyful to give to expand God's Kingdom. We are specifically told not to give grudgingly. The Greek word for grudgingly is _lupe_. It carries the meaning of sorrow, grief, being annoyed. If you are compelled to give, or give out of necessity and you have sorrow and annoyance in your heart don't give. If someone has convinced you or forced you to give by making you feel guilty or promised you a greater return, then you are no longer a cheerful giver.

The more a person loves God the more he will want to give to see his work exp and, and this not always mean money.

Again I'm not saying ministries do not need support, they do, but to twist the word of God to mean something it does not to get this support by promising hundred/ thousand fold blessings is seditious. Money itself is not the issue, but how you relate to money; God is looking at our heart, what's our motivation. 

We are not to look to the “here and now” for our reward, but toward heaven where our treasure is being stored up. If you give to get more, to increase that is giving for reaping on earth. Where are you looking, where is your heart today? Jesus said: “where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” Our Motivation is what is important; we should not give up something for the purpose to get something better, and neither should we give something to get something.
We should all support those we can in ministry, we should support the churches work, we should also look where God can use us to support those in need.

Under the conditional covenant of the Old Testament tithing was a necessity. It is not a command in the New Testament, it is a principle -- we give out of love, from the heart because we are under a new unconditional covenant not the Old Testament law.


_*(Excerpts from the book The Empty Pulpit)*_​


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## Pam Pam (Apr 25, 2006)

This is deep, ladies, and a real eye opener.  May God add a blessing to the reading of His word.


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## Poohbear (Apr 25, 2006)

Yes, it is a requirement... but you're not deemed for Hell if you don't do it.  I also agree with churches helping members find how they can fit tithing into their budget. It can be difficult for people who do not know how to save money or for people who are new to the tithing concept.


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## gradygirl (May 22, 2006)

When I first got saved I did not pay my tithes because I did not understand it. So I told God what his word said about trying or testing him and see that he will open the windows of heaven.... I went to God not to man for understanding and when God proved to me that tithing worked I began to do so faithfully.  I now pay my tithes and offering from my gross because that is what I actually get and I pay my offering based on what I can afford not on what someone asks for or starts the offering off with because I know I have other financial obligations. When it comes to money and the church in these last days we have to be careful and ask God himself for wisdom so we won't be fooled by some money hungry people. I notice that now there are churches popping up that you cant even join unless you give them a copy of your W-2 and I know of one that requires there members to pay 20% (The devil is a lie) .


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## Lucie (May 24, 2006)

gradygirl said:
			
		

> When I first got saved I did not pay my tithes because I did not understand it. So I told God what his word said about trying or testing him and see that he will open the windows of heaven.... I went to God not to man for understanding and when God proved to me that tithing worked I began to do so faithfully. I now pay my tithes and offering from my gross because that is what I actually get and I pay my offering based on what I can afford not on what someone asks for or starts the offering off with because I know I have other financial obligations. When it comes to money and the church in these last days we have to be careful and ask God himself for wisdom so we won't be fooled by some money hungry people. *I notice that now there are churches popping up that you cant even join unless you give them a copy of your W-2 and I know of one that requires there members to pay 20%* (The devil is a lie) .


 
Are you kidding me? For real? That is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## gradygirl (May 24, 2006)

Scary isn't it.


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2006)

gradygirl said:
			
		

> When I first got saved I did not pay my tithes because I did not understand it. So I told God what his word said about trying or testing him and see that he will open the windows of heaven.... I went to God not to man for understanding and when God proved to me that tithing worked I began to do so faithfully. I now pay my tithes and offering from my gross ....


 
I agree with what you say here.... I tithe off the gross. I don't look at it as a requirement, but in faith and obedience within covenant as part of my walk of salvation with Jesus Christ.

The Lord is not going to make anybody do what they don't want to do.... What's "wrong" with applying a biblical principle that the Lord honors? Abraham gave tithes of ALL...and this man was BLESSED! Spiritually and naturally!!!! He didn't want for anything, including the promised child through his post-menopausal wife!!! 

Bottom line for me is this: we could debate about the scriptural stuff about what the law was and what grace is and what was undone or changed or turned upside down and whatnot.... However, I strongly encourage those who are apprehensive about tithing to seek the Lord directly, point blank...ask the Lord...point blank...about the principle of tithing (and this is different from giving offerings)...and to grant the faith to begin to tithe...even baby steps...and you will see changes and blessings and miracles in life that cannot be explained or tracked...all you will be able to say is "all glory belongs to God!"

Peace....


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## kit25 (Jun 14, 2006)

I don't know if this has already been posted somewhere, but if you'd like to read a really good book that speaks truthfully against tithing for New Testament believers please get this book...."Tithing: Low Realm, Obsolete, and Defunct." I'm reading it now and it's very scripturally sound.

http://www.tekoapublishing.com/books/intro.html#


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## PaperClip (Jun 15, 2006)

I'd been trying to figure out how to respond to this thread, esp. after the lengthy scriptural back and forths about the relevance and "lawfulness" of tithing and here's my thought:

All this resistance to tithing should alert us to do exactly this: TITHE!!! This talking against tithing is such a deception...and deception is the enemy's greatest skill.... Sigh....

And when I tithe, I'm giving my tithes and offerings TO THE LORD, not the preacher.... So if the preacher decides to steal it or burn the money in the BBQ pit, I can say that I did what I was supposed to do with this part of my covenant relationship with the Lord.... 

Anybody can GIVE, but TITHING is about relationship.


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## mkh_77 (Jun 15, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> All this resistance to tithing should alert us to do exactly this: TITHE!!! This talking against tithing is such a deception...and deception is the enemy's greatest skill.... Sigh....


 
 Tithing is still not a requirement of the New Testament.  If it makes you feel good to tithe, then by all accounts, do so, but don't claim that it's a requirement when it's not.



			
				RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Anybody can GIVE, but TITHING is about relationship.



So "givers" can't have a relationship with God?!  That's news to me.


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## Southernbella. (Jun 15, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Tithing is still not a requirement of the New Testament.  If it makes you feel good to tithe, then by all accounts, do so, but don't claim that it's a requirement when it's not.
> 
> 
> 
> So "givers" can't have a relationship with God?!  That's news to me.



Me too! My mom, who thought I was totally nuts about this tithing thing, called me to tell me that she read one of Billy Graham's books, and in it, even he talks about how tithing is NOT a requirement. He goes on to say that he and his family tithe, but that it's a personal decision for everyone to make since it's, again, NOT a requirement. So basically, she believes it now and has started to study it for herself.

The tithing "rule" is a stronghold.


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## PaperClip (Jun 15, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Tithing is still not a requirement of the New Testament. If it makes you feel good to tithe, then by all accounts, do so, but don't claim that it's a requirement when it's not.
> 
> 
> 
> So "givers" can't have a relationship with God?! That's news to me.


 

Ok... so can you please state where I said that givers cannot or do not have a relationship with God?

I will say this: relationships can be as shallow or as deep as we want them to be. I'll leave it at that.


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## PaperClip (Jun 15, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> The tithing "rule" is a stronghold.


 
That's an unfortunate misconception.


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## mkh_77 (Jun 15, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Anybody can GIVE, but TITHING is about relationship.



Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote, so I'll ask, what exactly did you mean by the statement above?

And, if I never gave a penny to a church, I don't think that would define my relationship with God because my relationship with God isn't for others to define.  Besides, does God _really_ want my money, or my heart?


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## PaperClip (Jun 15, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote, so I'll ask, what exactly did you mean by the statement above?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## NtheNameofJesus! (Jun 15, 2006)

woh woh woh!!!!!!!!!! this topic is on fiya! lol

so, i'm wondering how the tithing "rule" could be a stronghold?....cuz i'm just trying to understand how the devil would deceive you into giving more money to God!!!!?????? i'm just clueless on this one guys...cuz i'm thinking he'd be MORE on the side of "don't give that to the church! the preacher taking it, and matta of fact, it ain't in the Bible for you to do!"  not..."oh yeah, give that 10% so you can be blessed ABUNDANTLY!" lol....i make myself laugh!

anyways, so i've been noticing a lot of misquoting of scriptures going on on this board, which i won't even address cuz someone will probably argue about how they're right....or whatever. but what i will say is that we ought to be careful. be very very careful....because it sounds to me that we are justifying a lot of things...i'm just trying to understand how we began to reason the entire Bible like "that don't mean what you think it mean!" well then what does it mean!??? we are reasoning away a lot of foundational doctrinal things....and the Bible clearly says in 1 Timothy 4:3 that the days will come man, when folks will not endure sound doctrine.....we need to watch what books we pick up, what articles we read and post cuz EVERYBODY AIN'T ON THE LORD'S SIDE! don't ya'll know that the enemy knows the Word of God too?  He can twist things however he wants to, that's why we rightly divide.  be watchful my sisters in Christ.  deceivers are going to grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived...that's why we gotta hold firm to what we know to be right!  don't let all these false prophets and false teachers out here dictate to YOU what thus saith the Lord.  research the Word and rightly divide.  take things in context and not out of context.  test the spirit by the spirit...

and another thing, we need to be praying for these people in leadership who are money hungry.  we need to be praying for those who feel like they have to push and prod to get folks to give...when giving ought to be a lifestyle. i won't ever question tithing because i came from a tithing family and i tithed, then i stopped, and i won't ever do it again.  the enemy blesses too...."the wicked prowl on every side, when vileness is exalted among the sons of men" psalm 12:8. check out psalm 73.....THE WICKED ARE BLESSED TOO!  but their end is destruction.  we act like "i don't tithe and i'm blessed girl so can't nobody tell me that i'm supposed to tithe!" could it be you're serving satan? could it be that you're being deceived into thinking that you are blessed? and what do you mean by blessed anyway....the blessings of the Lord are things you AIN'T got to pay for!  blessings are free....don't need to repay for them!  if i could type this 1 million times i would: do not be deceived!  deception is running rampant...if you allow the enemy to get u on the smallest thing, you will reason yourself out of righteousness, out of holiness before the Lord.  i have not completely figured this out but i do not believe that God completely cut out His old testament. first of all, the nature of God is revealed in it, and His nature has not changed.  second, we don't (or at least i don't) believe in getting tattoos, but that's in the old testament....so how do we decide what we choose to take? why do we believe the things that are CONVENIENT for us but disregard or reason away the things that are not?  to be truthful, most of us just don't wanna pay the 10% cuz it seems like a lot when you got 1000 or 3000!...or when you feel like u ain't gonna have enough to do with what you will!  i've felt that same way...felt like i couldn't pay it, but i went out to eat, i went to the mall. and then other times i just felt like i ain't have it....but when i gave anyway, my pastor would hand me 20 after church (that's my other dad) or someone in church would ask me if i had gas money (cuz college students are broke) and hand me 20....or my mom would graciously give me money, or God would make a way with something that seemed impossible, all because i believed Him, exercised my faith according to His Word, and gave what was required and when i could, above that.  we believe the prophecies in daniel about the Anti-Christ, but we don't believe tithing.....yes, the pharisees prayed out all loud to be heard, but that didn't mean Jesus abolished prayer, or even prayer out loud (1 Cor.11)!  ...and all scripture is inspired, so don't even go there! lol...2 Timothy 3:16 God was looking at the heart, but that didn't change what His Word said, or the fact that something was wrong or right!! (matthew 5, 6, 7)  

i will post more later because the best sunday school teacher in the world is teaching on sunday about what it meant when Christ fulfilled the law, and all that good stuff. i'm stil learning about all this myself but i do know that the enemy will try anything to get to his one world church...pretty soon, folks will reason away Jesus being the Son of God, having all power!  oh wait, they're already doing it....!!!!!!!!!!  be watchful and prayful in all things beloved.  i do truly love yall!


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## mkh_77 (Jun 16, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> . . . but there's a tax benefit (write-off) to giving. trust Him enough to regularly give to Him with a significant part of oneself: MONEY!!!



There is a tax benefit to tithing as well, so there is really no distinction but the one you make when you choose to use the word "tithe" instead of "give".



			
				RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> For me, it's not about law, it's about grace, it's about a willing heart, it's about trust. It is personal. And just like everything else about salvation, it's about FREE WILL. God's not going to make us do what we DO NOT want to do....



I agree.  It's personal, and I don't believe God cares if we give 0% or 100%, he cares about what's in our hearts.  Some people don't have anything to give but their faith and devotion (the intangibles), and as I've asked many times before, are they going to be penalized because they are poor?  Will God love them any less?!  Additionally, along with free will comes common sense, and if I have a starving child and $20, I'll do everything in my power to feed my child before I give $20 to a church without the fear that God will punish me for having done so.

Since tithing isn't a requirement for Christians, I think it's unfortunate that people are looked down on for not tithing or believing that tithing creates/supports a relationship with God.  Just a way to create more division.


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## mkh_77 (Jun 16, 2006)

NtheNameofJesus! said:
			
		

> woh woh woh!!!!!!!!!! this topic is on fiya! lol
> 
> so, i'm wondering how the tithing "rule" could be a stronghold?....cuz i'm just trying to understand how the devil would deceive you into giving more money to God!!!!?????? i'm just clueless on this one guys...cuz i'm thinking he'd be MORE on the side of "don't give that to the church! the preacher taking it, and matta of fact, it ain't in the Bible for you to do!"  not..."oh yeah, give that 10% so you can be blessed ABUNDANTLY!" lol....i make myself laugh!
> 
> ...



The purpose of Jesus' coming was to fulfill the prophecy of the Old Testament and to relieve us of the ritualization associated with it.  So, it's not rationalizing to say that tithing is not a requirement of the New Testament--it's the truth.

It's nice that when you give your money to church there are people around you to make sure that you still have money to live.  Not everyone is that fortunate and it's not because they lack trust, faith or belief in God--it's just because they are not that fortunate.


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## PaperClip (Jun 16, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> There is a tax benefit to tithing as well, so there is really no distinction but the one you make when you choose to use the word "tithe" instead of "give".
> 
> I agree. It's personal, and I don't believe God cares if we give 0% or 100%, he cares about what's in our hearts. Some people don't have anything to give but their faith and devotion (the intangibles), and as I've asked many times before, are they going to be penalized because they are poor? Will God love them any less?! Additionally, along with free will comes common sense, and if I have a starving child and $20, I'll do everything in my power to feed my child before I give $20 to a church without the fear that God will punish me for having done so.
> 
> Since tithing isn't a requirement for Christians, I think it's unfortunate that people are looked down on for not tithing or believing that tithing creates/supports a relationship with God. Just a way to create more division.


 
You're absolutely correct about getting tax benefits for tithing as well. That's yet another reason to do it!

And with regard to what people can give, people can tithe their time if they don't have finances. The church needs money to run, e.g., lights, gas, etc. So I believe the Lord would have us to give money toward the running of the house of God because money is the modern-day necessity for the exchange of goods and services. The issue is that everybody ain't saved and there are some crooked people out there who take advantage of this, that's why it's important to know and be clear with the Lord where you're worshipping financially, if you will.

You asked about the poor being penalized because they are poor. Well, we know the Bible says the poor will be with us always: *Matthew 26:11: *
For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always*; **Mark 14:7**: *For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always; *John 12:8**:* For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always. 

And, the Bible says very much about compassion toward the poor, giving to the poor. The Bible says in *Proverbs 19:17* that He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again. And there are many ways to do this.... both through in-church programs as well as other programs worldwide. Again, just as I said earlier, it matters where you give so you are sure that your funds are being used properly.

You said: "and if I have a starving child and $20, I'll do everything in my power to feed my child before I give $20 to a church without the fear that God will punish me for having done so." 

Here's another, how shall I say, misapplication with regard to the balance of tithing versus personal survival. Of course, God nor a decent human being would want a child or adult to suffer and starve. By definition, to tithe would be 10 percent, or in this case, $2 would go to tithes. So how much does it take to feed a child with $18? This is an example more of being a wise steward over the finances that one has been given. And as I said before, if one may not have finances, then one could tithe in other ways. Also, where's does one's FAITH to give enter in a situation like the one described here? I know we're all at different levels, but if we truly believe God's word, then there's gotta be a point where we draw the line to say, Lord, I trust Your Word to tithe and give BEYOND my need.... I'm reminded of the widow in 1 Kings 17, which talks about the story of the widow who, with her son, were preparing to eat their last meal and die:

The Widow at Zarephath 
7 Some time later the brook dried up because there had been no rain in the land. 8 Then the word of the LORD came to him: 9 "Go at once to Zarephath of Sidon and stay there. I have commanded a widow in that place to supply you with food." 10 So he went to Zarephath. When he came to the town gate, a widow was there gathering sticks. He called to her and asked, "Would you bring me a little water in a jar so I may have a drink?" 11 As she was going to get it, he called, "And bring me, please, a piece of bread." 
 12 "As surely as the LORD your God lives," she replied, "I don't have any breadâ€”only a handful of flour in a jar and a little oil in a jug. I am gathering a few sticks to take home and make a meal for myself and my son, that we may eat itâ€”and die." 
 13 Elijah said to her, "Don't be afraid. Go home and do as you have said. But first make a small cake of bread for me from what you have and bring it to me, and then make something for yourself and your son. 14 For this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'The jar of flour will not be used up and the jug of oil will not run dry until the day the LORD gives rain on the land.' " 
 15 She went away and did as Elijah had told her. So there was food every day for Elijah and for the woman and her family. 16 For the jar of flour was not used up and the jug of oil did not run dry, in keeping with the word of the LORD spoken by Elijah. 
 17 Some time later the son of the woman who owned the house became ill. He grew worse and worse, and finally stopped breathing. 18 She said to Elijah, "What do you have against me, man of God? Did you come to remind me of my sin and kill my son?" 
 19 "Give me your son," Elijah replied. He took him from her arms, carried him to the upper room where he was staying, and laid him on his bed. 20 Then he cried out to the LORD, "O LORD my God, have you brought tragedy also upon this widow I am staying with, by causing her son to die?" 21 Then he stretched himself out on the boy three times and cried to the LORD, "O LORD my God, let this boy's life return to him!" 
 22 The LORD heard Elijah's cry, and the boy's life returned to him, and he lived. 23 Elijah picked up the child and carried him down from the room into the house. He gave him to his mother and said, "Look, your son is alive!"  24 Then the woman said to Elijah, "Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the LORD from your mouth is the truth."



Finally, you said: "Since tithing isn't a requirement for Christians, I think it's unfortunate that people are looked down on for not tithing or believing that tithing creates/supports a relationship with God. Just a way to create more division."

I can speak for me that I'm not looking down at anyone for not tithing, but I share passionately out of my concern and hope that people realize that there's even more goodness and blessing in the Lord through the principle of tithing. I believe it does SUPPORT a relationship with the Lord. There are already PLENTY of divisions in the body of Christ. It would seem like this one would be a no-brainer, since tithing goes toward the furtherance of building the Kingdom of God through much-needed finances along with the personal relationship with the Lord.


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## Poohbear (Jun 16, 2006)

Very interesting thread! I've always thought of tithing in terms of money.

In terms of money, I've always given 10% of my net earnings.  I sometimes give more, just depends on how my heart leads me, like the scripture says.

I believe that if you do not tithe or do not give, you are robbing God... whether you are robbing Him of your money, talent, or time.


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## Southernbella. (Jun 16, 2006)

NtheNameofJesus! said:
			
		

> woh woh woh!!!!!!!!!! this topic is on fiya! lol
> 
> so, i'm wondering how the tithing "rule" could be a stronghold?....cuz i'm just trying to understand how the devil would deceive you into giving more money to God!!!!?????? i'm just clueless on this one guys...cuz i'm thinking he'd be MORE on the side of "don't give that to the church! the preacher taking it, and matta of fact, it ain't in the Bible for you to do!"  not..."oh yeah, give that 10% so you can be blessed ABUNDANTLY!" lol....i make myself laugh!
> 
> ...




In answer to your first question...tithing is the only Old Testament Law that the churches have held onto for all this time. Why is that? All I'm saying is the rule of tithing...that you HAVE to give 10% in order to be blessed and in order to be in covenant with God...is a stronghold, becuase it's simply not true. If you WANT to give 10%, or 5%, or 30%, give becuse it's in your heart to give it, but don't give 10% because the church says you have to or your relationship with God will suffer, because that's a LIE.

To sum up, tithing is not mandatory, but if it's in your heart to do it, by all means, do so. If not, don't feel compelled to do it just because the church and other Christians browbeat you into doing it.


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## Southernbella. (Jun 16, 2006)

> It would seem like this one would be a no-brainer, since tithing goes toward the furtherance of building the Kingdom of God through much-needed finances along with the personal relationship with the Lord.



Here's the thing...giving is a no-brainer. But tithing, as was practiced in the Old Testament, is not. And if we are really supposed to be tithing like in the Old Testament, we're ALL doing it wrong. 

I agree that GIVING, as God has directed you to do in your heart, is what God has called us to do, but TITHING is not. In fact, tithing is bondage. God said not to give under compulsion, and that's exactly what we do when we tithe 10% because the church says that's what we have to do in order to be close to God.


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## Southernbella. (Jun 16, 2006)

> research the Word and rightly divide. take things in context and not out of context. test the spirit by the spirit...



Exactly. So don't just do what the church says...study it for yourself. Any good pastor will tell you that.


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## PaperClip (Jun 16, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> Here's the thing...giving is a no-brainer. But tithing, as was practiced in the Old Testament, is not. And if we are really supposed to be tithing like in the Old Testament, we're ALL doing it wrong.
> 
> I agree that GIVING, as God has directed you to do in your heart, is what God has called us to do, but TITHING is not. In fact, tithing is bondage. God said not to give under compulsion, and that's exactly what we do when we tithe 10% because the church says that's what we have to do in order to be close to God.


 
Tithing and bondage are two terms the simply do not belong together. Which aspect of tithing do you find compulsory? The amount? The location (i.e., the specific church where one might be a church member?)

And with regard to tithing and being close to God, I would say tithing is ONE demonstration of relationship with the Lord. There are several demonstrations to declare one's relationship with the Lord, not just tithing alone. 

Finally, HOW is the church supposed to function monetarily? How does a church pay for lights, heat, gas, building maintenance and all the other things that are necessary for any kind of organization to function? One cannot take a "Hallelujah" to the light company to pay the bill....


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## Southernbella. (Jun 16, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Tithing and bondage are two terms the simply do not belong together. Which aspect of tithing do you find compulsory? The amount? The location (i.e., the specific church where one might be a church member?)
> 
> And with regard to tithing and being close to God, I would say tithing is ONE demonstration of relationship with the Lord. There are several demonstrations to declare one's relationship with the Lord, not just tithing alone.
> 
> Finally, HOW is the church supposed to function monetarily? How does a church pay for lights, heat, gas, building maintenance and all the other things that are necessary for any kind of organization to function? One cannot take a "Hallelujah" to the light company to pay the bill....



How is tithing cumpulsory? Yes, the way it is taught to believers...If you don't tithe, you won't be blessed. That is so far from what God says that it's not even funny. If that isn't compulsion and scare tactics, I don't know what is. The amount is the second part. 

*2 Cor. 9:7 says, â€œEvery man according as he purposed in his heart, so let him give: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.â€ * Notice there is no amount mentioned, it what you have settled in your own heart.

Second, if we are supposed to be tithing as God required in the New Testament, why are churches teaching it wrong?

*There were three tithes in the Old Covenant. Most often tithes were the crops, the produce of the soil was to be tithed, grains, the fruit of the trees, every year new wine and oil, the firstborn of their herds and flocks (Leviticus 27:30-33). If the place the nation of Israel were to tithe was too far away to carry their goods (such as Jerusalem) it could be exchanged for money. They were to use their money to buy anything the owner chose: cattle, sheep, wine (Deuteronomy 14:22-26). Every third year the tithe was to be reserved as a festival tithe where they brought out all the tithe, and their produce where the Levite, the stranger, the orphan, the widow, the poor who were in their town, could come and eat and be content (Deuteronomy 14:28-29; 26:12-15). * 

Lastly, Jewish people don't tithe, because it is ILLEGAL for anyone other than a Levitical priest to collect the tithe (and there are none today...Jesus was the last), but they do give in order to keep things running smoothly. 

Again, giving is stressed, not tithing because you have to. If you look at why Jesus came and died, one reason was so that we would not be bound to legalism, but that we would have freedom. Why then do we hold ourselves in bondage to this ONE Old Testament Law (there were several, but we seem to only obey this one today) when Jesus came that we would be free?


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## Southernbella. (Jun 16, 2006)

Let me also add that I don't think most preachers are out to steal their members' money. I just don't think any of them are willing to go against the grain and teach the truth about tithing. I don't know if they are afraid they won't be able to keep the church running if they trust people to give based on what is in their hearts, or if they are afraid to buck tradition. Either way, I think their intentions are good, they just aren't telling the whole truth.


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## PaperClip (Jun 16, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> How is tithing cumpulsory? Yes, the way it is taught to believers...If you don't tithe, you won't be blessed. That is so far from what God says that it's not even funny. If that isn't compulsion and scare tactics, I don't know what is. The amount is the second part.
> 
> *2 Cor. 9:7 says, â€œEvery man according as he purposed in his heart, so let him give: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.â€ *Notice there is no amount mentioned, it what you have settled in your own heart.
> 
> ...


 
With regard to how tithing is taught does not negate its existence nor its relevance in the life of the modern-day Christian believer. I certainly cannot account for how tithing is taught across the planet. I do support the point that being a tither is and will always be a blessing to the believer. Like somebody else said, all of us need to get into the Word of God and explore what the Word of God says about tithing until we each come into our own understanding that we would defend in the Father's face.

I do believe there is a distinction between GIVING and TITHING. Like I said before, ANYBODY CAN ENGAGE IN THE ACT OF GIVING. TITHING IS PART OF COVENANT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD. Also like I said before, it's interesting that tithing to the Lord is getting such resistance.... Of course the enemy would not want us to give our money to the KINGDOM OF GOD! He's already a defeated foe anyway....

It's interesting that you would mention the Jewish faith, because first of all, just like in Christianity, there are SEVERAL orders of that faith, including Orthodox, Reformed, Messianic, etc. And, Jewish synagogues have membership fees of SET AMOUNTS, so maybe that would serve as the Christian equivalent of the tithe. And I would conclude that such fees correspond to principles outlined in the Torah.


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## Southernbella. (Jun 16, 2006)

> And, Jewish synagogues have membership fees of SET AMOUNTS, so maybe that would serve as the Christian equivalent of the tithe.



No, it doesn't.



> Like I said before, ANYBODY CAN ENGAGE IN THE ACT OF GIVING. TITHING IS PART OF COVENANT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD.



I know what YOU said, but what does God say about giving as it relates to Christians? Because by your logic, we should still be doing animal sacrifices and wearing certain articles of clothing. After all, those were part of covenant relationship with the Lord as well.

Also, you say that tithing is receiving resistance. I never saw anyone on this thread say that people SHOULDN'T tithe. What I see is people who understand that tithing is not MANDATORY for Christians. It has been said time and time again that you should give what is in your heart. If that's 10% for you, great! Nobody ever said not to.


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## PaperClip (Jun 16, 2006)

lauren450 said:
			
		

> No, it doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you know that for certain regarding the Jewish synagogue membership fees? 

From some of the scriptures quoted here, there seems to be an implication to not tithe by equating it with giving, and as I said before, I believe TITHING and GIVING are two distinct acts conducted for two distinct, albeit related purposes and goals.


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## Southernbella. (Jun 16, 2006)

I know what YOU said. What does GOD say...specifically, what does it say in the Bible about tithing being for covenant, and giving being for anyone? I'm all for people having opinions, but do you have specific scriptures to back up what you're saying?



> Do you know that for certain regarding the Jewish synagogue membership fees?



I know that they aren't tithes, because Jewish people know that it's illegal to collect tithes when there are no living Levitical preists. I don't know if they tell them they won't be blessed if they don't pay thier dues (that may just be a Christian thing), but I know they don't consider them tithes as practiced in the Bible.


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## mkh_77 (Jun 16, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I do believe there is a distinction between GIVING and TITHING. Like I said before, ANYBODY CAN ENGAGE IN THE ACT OF GIVING. TITHING IS PART OF COVENANT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD. Also like I said before, it's interesting that tithing to the Lord is getting such resistance.... Of course the enemy would not want us to give our money to the KINGDOM OF GOD! He's already a defeated foe anyway....



This is a distinction that you have made (tithing and giving).  If I don't tithe you can't tell me that I don't have a "covenant relationship with the Lord" because you don't know what's in my heart.  This is something I suspect you came up with or heard at church, and that's fine to apply to yourself (not putting your idea down in anyway).  

No one is resisting the concept of tithing, there are some who just know it isn't mandatory and won't pretend that it is.

God's kingdom needs more than money.


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## Southernbella. (Jun 16, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> This is a distinction that you have made (tithing and giving).  If I don't tithe you can't tell me that I don't have a "covenant relationship with the Lord" because you don't know what's in my heart.  This is something I suspect you came up with or heard at church, and that's fine to apply to yourself (not putting your idea down in anyway).
> 
> No one is resisting the concept of tithing, there are some who just know it isn't mandatory and won't pretend that it is.
> 
> God's kingdom needs more than money.



Amen!


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## mkh_77 (Jun 16, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> You said: "and if I have a starving child and $20, I'll do everything in my power to feed my child before I give $20 to a church without the fear that God will punish me for having done so."
> 
> Here's another, how shall I say, misapplication with regard to the balance of tithing versus personal survival. Of course, God nor a decent human being would want a child or adult to suffer and starve. By definition, to tithe would be 10 percent, or in this case, $2 would go to tithes. So how much does it take to feed a child with $18? This is an example more of being a wise steward over the finances that one has been given. And as I said before, if one may not have finances, then one could tithe in other ways. Also, where's does one's FAITH to give enter in a situation like the one described here? I know we're all at different levels, but if we truly believe God's word, then there's gotta be a point where we draw the line to say, Lord, I trust Your Word to tithe and give BEYOND my need....



There are plenty of people who give ALL of their money to churches who don't need it because they are told they HAVE to tithe.  If I needed the entire $20 to feed my child, then so be it.  I still wouldn't feel bad about it, and I would be acting as a "wise steward over the finances" that had been given me.

Faith is important in that not everyone is in a situation where "God makes a way".  There are plenty of people who experience hardship after hardship and the only thing that keeps them going is faith.  

Giving beyond your need is like living beyond your means--there has to be a balance.  What sense does it make to give money to a church when I can't even pay my bills?!


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## mkh_77 (Jun 16, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Finally, HOW is the church supposed to function monetarily? How does a church pay for lights, heat, gas, building maintenance and all the other things that are necessary for any kind of organization to function? One cannot take a "Hallelujah" to the light company to pay the bill....



Well, the church I attend makes money in the following ways:

-run a full time day care for children 6 weeks to pre-K
-run an after school program for children up to grade 5
-run summer camp/Vacation Bible School programs
-charge church rental fees for weddings
-put on a yearly talent show where patrons are chraged for tickets
-hold exercise classes for different age groups

I'm sure there are other things that go on that I'm not thinking of right now, but all of the above mentioned activies generate money for the church.  The church doesn't rely on tithes!


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## PaperClip (Jun 16, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> Well, the church I attend makes money in the following ways:
> 
> -run a full time day care for children 6 weeks to pre-K
> -run an after school program for children up to grade 5
> ...


 
Unfortunately, no church can rely solely on tithes because everybody doesn't tithe or even give offerings consistently. And, while these activities are noble, how do they help bring souls to the Kingdom of God, which the primary purpose of the church?


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## mkh_77 (Jun 17, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, no church can rely solely on tithes because everybody doesn't tithe or even give offerings consistently. And, while these activities are noble, how do they help bring souls to the Kingdom of God, which the primary purpose of the church?



These activites make people aware of the church and bring them into contact with the chruch.  I would think that's pretty obvious, and these activites can be viewed as a form of outreach, thereby helping to accomplish the primary purpose of the church.


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## Bunny77 (Jun 17, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> These activites make people aware of the church and bring them into contact with the chruch.  I would think that's pretty obvious, and these activites can be viewed as a form of outreach, thereby helping to accomplish the primary purpose of the church.



Exactly! How can one think such activities are irrelevant to bringing souls to God?

I'm sure the Word is being taught or spoken through everything you mentioned. There are probably Bible lessons in all the children's programs, and I'm sure this talent show features acts that are Bible/Christian based.

As for exercise, well, if you want to have soldiers in your army of saving souls, they need to keep their temple healthy!

Church is much more than service only!


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## PaperClip (Jun 17, 2006)

mkh_77 said:
			
		

> These activites make people aware of the church and bring them into contact with the chruch. I would think that's pretty obvious, and these activites can be viewed as a form of outreach, thereby helping to accomplish the primary purpose of the church.


 
Interesting answer... expected answer... but interesting nonetheless....

So here's what I began to think about: first, you said the purpose of the activities you mentioned were to "generate money for the church". So which is the primary purpose for these activities: to generate money or to win souls? Can such activities do both? Sure, that's possible.

I go back to a previous inquiry about the necessity of such activities if the church was being supported financially through the church members via tithing/consistent giving. You may not know this answer, but if the activities you mentioned had to cease (for whatever reason), would your church have enough funding to survive to do the primary function of winning souls, e.g., building mortgage, lights, heat, water, air conditioning, etc.?


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## mkh_77 (Jun 18, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Interesting answer... expected answer... but interesting nonetheless....
> 
> So here's what I began to think about: first, you said the purpose of the activities you mentioned were to "generate money for the church". So which is the primary purpose for these activities: to generate money or to win souls? Can such activities do both? Sure, that's possible.
> 
> I go back to a previous inquiry about the necessity of such activities if the church was being supported financially through the church members via tithing/consistent giving. You may not know this answer, but if the activities you mentioned had to cease (for whatever reason), would your church have enough funding to survive to do the primary function of winning souls, e.g., building mortgage, lights, heat, water, air conditioning, etc.?



Interesting . . . expected . . . necessary?

Why can't the primary purpose of these activities be two-fold: to bring people to Christ and generate income for the church?  I believe it's possible for the activities I mentioned to do both, and to do both successfully.  My family began attending this church because I initially attended its after school program and then my sister attended its daycare.  It was in our neighborhood and the people were very friendly, my parents were looking for a church home, and the rest is history.

Actually, I do know the answer to your question.  The church I attend would be able to sustain itself without the activities I mentioned simply because there are a few people who GIVE gifts to the church.  These gifts are usually one time deals and they are lump sums of money or endowments (the gift that keeps on giving).


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## MindTwister (Jun 22, 2006)

This is an interesting debate you have going on here. I have only recently gone back to trying to live according to God ways and it's not easy at all but in Jesus Name I will grow bolder and more faithful
Anyways tithe is one of the things I'm having issues with. I'm torn between the two sides and I guess since I have yet to study the bible in depth myself I can't take sides. The arguments I have read to support tithe not being a requirement make a lot of sense to me. I had this debate witha friend of mine for an entire night and she tried to convince me about it being a requirement but I still wasn't convinced. That said at one point she told me that if the word "requirement" bothered me then forget about it and just do it out of faith that God will bless you.
Then I was told last week that tithe and giving is the same thing. I'm just confused by this whole thing and I guess I should turn to God and open my Bible...This is not an easy journey ya'll


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## NtheNameofJesus! (Jun 25, 2006)

i love sunday school...!!!!

so, i asked this very question in sunday school today and my teacher gave the most godly response, and that will end my discussion right here:

my pastor has established a vision for the house that God has placed him over and God has so led him to teach about tithing and request that we as members of the fellowship do so, so i am to do it because it is apart of the vision that God has given my pastor. if i don't like it or agree, then i can move to another fellowship. but i'm under my pastor and that's what he teaches.....God has set him, my pastor, as my covering authority and the vision that he has for the house is what i am to follow and teach, and support.

so...i can't tell u whether or not to tithe, but whatever ur leadership says is really what you're supposed to do.  and my teacher expressed from his own experience everywhere that even if churches don't teach tithing, they will hunt you down for your pledges and send you bills, require that you submit how much you make so that they can get 10 percent regardless.....so either way, God's gone get His! ya'll have a blessed week!


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## Angelicus (Jun 25, 2006)

Wow, I am amazed at the quotes that justify the priniciples of not tithing.

Many of you don't know that I am a musician. I play piano, precussion, and brass instruments. I also sing. When i became a Christian, I decided to start a music ministry in my own church and a street ministry in my city. Since the priniciple of tithing, giving first fruits, and offerings weren't taught in my church, I had to play at four different churches to make ends meet. I had to go to four different practices in a work-week.

Even though I was working an office job at the same time, I noticed that the other musicians were performing in bars filled with sin just to make ends meet. This hurt me so much, guys. These people were ministering the word of God in music yet having to play at demon-filled places to make ends meet. Eventually, I found myself in that same situation. I had to stop my music ministry because it just wasn't paying me.

What if everybody in the church tithed? We wouldn't have had to play in cigarette and marijuana-filled bars, with alcohol and gluttonery.

What if everybody in the church tithed? That church could have created mission trips so people could spread the Word (considering that we are supposed to go to all the world and not just at our home church).

If everybody in that church tithed, my pastor could have continued his education of learning practical, biblical guidance for his people... Instead of preaching the same thing every 8 weeks.

If they tithed, we wouldn't have all these great church singers turn into singers of soft porn-type lyrics. We could have kept them in the church of the Lord, singing his praises instead of the praises of someone they had sex with last night.

We could have had a recovery ministry at church so that people could cease looking at pornography the night before and night after church.

God wants us to edify the body of Christ and we cant do it without your financial contribution. Not only is it law, but it's practical. In the bible, Jesus simply despised the Pharisees because they didn't follow the way of the Lord: BUT that the only rule that they actually did right was tithe (they were really anal about that).

When you don't give first-fruits, your tithe, and your offerings, You're not stealing from Him; you are robbing God. You're not a thief! See, a thief is sneaky: he steals in the middle of the night or steal in a sneaky matter. Robbing is totally different. You are stealing publically, like a man with a gun in his hand aimed at you as he steals your purse.


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## Angelicus (Jun 25, 2006)

> Leviticus 27:31- If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of value to it. *(There was a penalty, or punishment, for paying your tithes in actual money. )*



The word "redeem" in the bible does not mean to "pay." In fact, it means the exact opposite. "To redeem" was the same thing as "to steal, or to borrow."

Technically, this verse means "If you rob God (not give to the Boby of Christ) you need to pay 20 percent instead of ten)."

hahahaa, God charges interest!


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## MindTwister (Jun 26, 2006)

anky said:
			
		

> The word "redeem" in the bible does not mean to "pay." In fact, it means the exact opposite. "To redeem" was the same thing as "to steal, or to borrow."
> 
> Technically, this verse means "If you rob God (not give to the Boby of Christ) you need to pay 20 percent instead of ten)."
> 
> hahahaa, God charges interest!


I'm confused by this one... What exactly makes you say that "redeem" in the bible means to "steal, or to borrow"?


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## Angelicus (Jun 26, 2006)

redeem, in that case, means to take back.


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