# "Injustice to One, Is Injustice to All"



## upscale0198 (Aug 5, 2011)

I would like to know why a thread is closed, and from what I read, sometimes removed, when a post that is offensive should be deleted. I joined this forum in 2009 because I had no knowledge about hair care. I came across it by accident, but decided to stay, because I was intrigued about all the things I was reading. I paid the fee. However minor, it was what you requested to be able to post. Although I didn't join to post, I joined because I valued the information and felt the least I could do was contribute to keep the site running.

Having said that, I am appalled that a thread is closed for whatever reason. I can understand not having posts that are offensive to a person. When these type of posts are created, wouldn't the right thing be to remove it and not close the entire thread. I came here to learn about hair and purchase products to help me in my journey. Every product I have purchased, has been based soley on what I've learned here. I will read about something that is raved about, and do my homework. Some members have time to go and do an intensive search on products before they make a purchase. People are from all walks of life on this forum. Just because a person isn't able to go back through years of information about something they are interested in, doesn't mean they don't wanna know or don't deserve to know what's going on. 

If someone is on here practicing shady business, it needs to be told as long and as loud in a dignified way as possible. The business was learned about here. Everything that follows should be enlightened to us also. Everyone has a right to their opinion. If we all took the stanz that it's not our problem, what a messed up world this would be. If MLK decided to mind his own business because as we all know, some of the issues he was standing up for, didn't directly affect him, where would we be today. So just because a business did something that didn't affect you, why not understand the rights of others and realize, we deserve to know.

I'm not saying to go on a witch hunt time someone post something about a business. I'm simply said let it be able to be viewed and discussed. Perhaps this will keep some businesses from being crooked. If I know the thread is going to sleep or heaven, and I'm shady, I know that I will have a whole new set of people to get over on in due time. This appears to be the case here. The really sad thing to me is how people are so easy to befriend a person they merely know from sitting behind a screen. You can be whomever you chose to be behind this screen. We all know that is a fact, but when a person shows you who they really are, that's who they are. I know some people do form real friendships with people they meet online. That's wonderful, and I am glad this can happen, but for those who defend people based on knowing them from a stroke of a key and a click of a mouse, please understand when a person is wronged, and the key locks and the mouse runs and hides, they aren't your friend either.

I didn't mean to ramble, but I decided to use my $6.50 up. To all you wonderful ladies who have given such wonderful advice, thanks so much. Nioxin has been a miracle for me, and had it not been for this forum, I would have never known about it. As wonderful as Nioxin is, and I was informed that the company was practicing shady business, I'd have to thank you all for informing me, find out all I can about what's going on, and make an educated decision on whether I wanted to take a chance on risking getting the product or donating to charity. Peace out!


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## gabulldawg (Aug 5, 2011)

Great post.


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## toinette (Aug 5, 2011)

i was confused when i didnt see the thread as well but since its a vendor issue, maybe they felt it was better placed in that Vendor section. This forum section is really about hair care practices and products. if you want to complain about being robbed by a seller, there is a specific forum for that


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## upscale0198 (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm not complaining about anything that happened to me personally. I learn about my products in this particular section. If a post was made about a product no matter if it was a vendor or an Amazon purchase and something comes to light to inform members to be aware about that item, I feel like the thread should stay open and the offensive post removed. The last thread about BT wasn't created in the vendor thread, so why would I complain about it being closed in the vendor thread. I didn't want to bring the name up, but since you didn't understand what I was complaining about.

Everyone who comes to read or post isn't trying to keep things going for the drama affect. I'm sure some of us really want to be made aware if a product has changed or a vendor has made some bad decisions that could possibly affect our pockets. If I did my due diligence in the beginning, how likely am I to revisit every thread to see if something has changed. Some people might have that kind of time. If the post was not closed, it perhaps might stay close to the front with new information or just being bumped, and someone might happen to see it and not be affected financially like some other people have been. It doesn't have that chance when it's closed. It is going to go further back as new threads are created. I don't know how long it would have stayed in the fore front. I stated that I think thread should stay open so we can be made aware of issues as long and loud as possible in a dignified way.


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## reeko43 (Aug 5, 2011)

I understand what you are saying and agree.  I belong to another forum, not hair related, where the mods delete individual posts, not the whole thread.  That way, the discussion continues uninterrupted.  

I have learned a lot from the forums and have been exposed to hair products, techniques, "gurus", etc. that I never would have without the forums. I think we should be able to see the pros and cons to make informed decisions and expose fraud for all to see to protect others.  Great post.


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

@upscale0198 The thread I think you're referring to was not deleted. It was moved to its rightful place: The Vendor section.

I honestly don't personally have a problem with "gate"/drama threads that are hundreds of pages long, with no new info being added, being closed. They will still be available for those who care to catch up to read so it's not as if the info is lost and newbies will be clueless on stuff. There are some threads that turn into just silliness with GIFs taking over. I cannot see the point of leaving such threads open. Yes, some people get entertained. But after enough "entertainment" has been posted, enough is enough. And you can still go back and get your laugh on, if you so wish.

Anyway, I probably missed something so I shall crawl back under the rock from whence I came.


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## reeko43 (Aug 5, 2011)

Nonie, that thread was closed but there was another thread opened in the vendor section.  I never really looked at the vendor section before I saw that thread


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

@reeko43 And what's wrong with that thread being closed? I guess that's what I don't understand. IMO there was enough info already posted for any newbie to know what's up, so I guess I don't see how it being closed should affect us one way or another. Now had it disappeared in its entirety, that'd be another matter, and I'd understand that it'd be unfair to remove that info coz it'd serve useful for unsuspecting would-be victims. But even if it did go poof on the hair forum, what's the point of having it when another shares the same info in the rightful place. In other words, what's the beef again?


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## BostonMaria (Aug 5, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @reeko43 And what's wrong with that thread being closed? I guess that's what I don't understand. IMO there was enough info already posted for any newbie to know what's up, so I guess I don't see how it being closed should affect us one way or another. Now had it disappeared in its entirety, that'd be another matter, and I'd understand that it'd be unfair to remove that info coz it'd serve useful for unsuspecting would-be victims. But even if it did go poof on the hair forum, what's the point of having it when another shares the same info in the rightful place. In other words, what's the beef again?



I think the problem is 6 months down the line when new people join the forum, the witch hunt dies down, newbies never see the "poofed" thread and are potentially scammed out of their money because they didn't know about the bad business practices.


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## upscale0198 (Aug 5, 2011)

@ Nonie. As reeko43 stated, it was closed and another thread created in the vendor section to inform people about this issue. I thought it was created to inform people who visit that particular section and might not visit this section about what was going on. I could be wrong. 

My point again was to remove any offensive post and allow it to keep going. When threads are closed, they appear to be pushed back. Yes, newbies or whomever will be able to see them, but what is the likelihood of that happening.  That thread was as valueable as any other thread that repeats itself, in my opinion. The "Can I Ask A Dumb Question" thread repeats itself quite often, but it is open because the information is valueable. 

When you operate a business, certain things are just expected from the general public. When we go to forums, certain things are also expected. We all know that things aren't gonna be peaches and cream, but we can't shut down just because WE think something has run it's course. If I think I've read enough about that particular thread, I simply keep it moving. As I stated, people on the forum come from all walks of life. The Gif's might be a bit much, to some, and to the person who typed it, just their way of expressing themselves. I can see it it was removed if it was offensive, other than that, we have to take the good with the bad, and come to learn.


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

BostonMaria said:


> I think the problem is 6 months down the line when new people join the forum, the witch hunt dies down, newbies never see the "poofed" thread and are potentially scammed out of their money because they didn't know about the bad business practices.



BostonMaria, but even if the thread didn't go poof on the hair forum, the seven-day wonder that is that discussion will be buried under tons of new threads in no time when folks have other things to talk about, just like all other threads of people who made news and then became a distance memory until a newbie asked about them. The only way to find the thread would be to do a search. And if a newbie does a search for the product in question because she's hoping to find info on it, she'll get search results pointing her to the discussion in the VENDOR section which is where one would expect to find vendor reviews anyway. 

So again, I still don't know what the problem is. The info is still on the LHCF just not on the hair forum. If someone is not a member and cannot see the Vendor site, *shrug* I don't whose problem that is.


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## BostonMaria (Aug 5, 2011)

Nonie said:


> I don't whose problem that is.



I think YOU'RE the problem! LMAO


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

upscale0198 said:


> @ Nonie. As reeko43 stated, it was closed and another thread created in the vendor section to inform people about this issue. I thought it was created to inform people who visit that particular section and might not visit this section about what was going on. I could be wrong.
> 
> My point again was to remove any offensive post and allow it to keep going. When threads are closed, they appear to be pushed back. Yes, newbies or whomever will be able to see them, but what is the likelihood of that happening.  That thread was as valueable as any other thread that repeats itself, in my opinion. The "Can I Ask A Dumb Question" thread repeats itself quite often, but it is open because the information is valueable.
> 
> When you operate a business, certain things are just expected from the general public. When we go to forums, certain things are also expected. We all know that things aren't gonna be peaches and cream, but we can't shut down just because WE think something has run it's course. If I think I've read enough about that particular thread, I simply keep it moving. As I stated, people on the forum come from all walks of life. The Gif's might be a bit much, to some, and to the person who typed it, just their way of expressing themselves. I can see it it was removed if it was offensive, other than that, we have to take the good with the bad, and come to learn.



upscale0198, I almost missed your mention because you put a space between @ and my name. The removing of offensive posts I've seen happen in other places and it's as annoying as someone going back and deleting their own posts. Just recently there was an old thread bumped and it just had so many missing posts that were relevant to the discussion that it just seemed useless that it even was on the forum. 

There are people who never visit the hair or vendor section but still use hair products. So what would you say to them? Too bad if you're swindled coz you should've done your homework and gone to the hair forum? The thing is, there's a section that discusses vendors and their practices. My point is, since the info about VENDORS can be found in the vendor section, why can't everyone go to the vendor section? IMO it seems as if we enjoy drama a bit too much. Coz if it was info we were after, that it is still available should be enough. 

I guess I'm weird coz honestly I don't see the point in leaving the thread open. Is the idea so that more victims come forward? Is it so that people can know just how mad more people are? In other words, what exactly would more posts on the topic really help in? It's just more of the same repeated ad nauseum and then maybe someone pointing out where else more of the same is going on. 

The hell?


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

BostonMaria said:


> I think YOU'RE the problem! LMAO



Maybe you're right.  

ETA I guess the least I could do then is provide a solution: Pay up like I did if you really are that interested in reading that thread, and you will have access to it in the Vendor section like I do.


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

upscale0198 said:


> [...]I can see it it was removed if it was offensive, other than that, we have to take the good with the bad, and come to learn.



Wait @upscale0198 I thought from reading your OP that the thread was _replaced_ by the Vendor one and that it had really gone poof, but it seems it's still around, just closed. So there you are! One problem solved: new members and even non-members can still get the info here if they prefer but a search is necessary. 

For those interested in carrying on the discussion, the Vendor version of it is still open. That still leaves a problem for those who can't see the section though.  But one'd have to really be pressed to just join so they can see what else has been added in THAT particular discussion.


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## reeko43 (Aug 5, 2011)

Nonie said:


> @reeko43 And what's wrong with that thread being closed? I guess that's what I don't understand. IMO there was enough info already posted for any newbie to know what's up, so I guess I don't see how it being closed should affect us one way or another. Now had it disappeared in its entirety, that'd be another matter, and I'd understand that it'd be unfair to remove that info coz it'd serve useful for unsuspecting would-be victims. But even if it did go poof on the hair forum, what's the point of having it when another shares the same info in the rightful place. In other words, what's the beef again?


 

Nonie, I don't have a problem with the thread being closed the way it was going toward the end; and, I am not sure what the beef is, lol!  When the thread was on track I was able to glean some useful information from it and I thought it was a needed discussion that could have gone in vendor or hair products because there are more views in this section.  I just don't see the need to close a thread if offensive or inappropriate posts could just be deleted as is my experience on other forums.


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

reeko43 said:


> @Nonie, I don't have a problem with the thread being closed the way it was going toward the end; and, I am not sure what the beef is, lol!  When the thread was on track I was able to glean some useful information from it and I thought it was a needed discussion that could have gone in vendor or hair products because there are more views in this section.  I just don't see the need to close a thread if offensive or inappropriate posts could just be deleted as is my experience on other forums.



@reeko43, I don't think it was closed so much because it was offensive, but if we are to be honest, what useful info was being added, really? And isn't the reason LHCF has so many forums so that topics of relevance can be where they belong? I think it was nice that it was left here instead of going poof so those who frequent here more than other areas can see it. I just don't see why any more posts needed to be added to it on the hair forum. But I'm a strange one, so what do I know? I tend not to read through such threads in their entirety once I get the gist of what it's about...so maybe I am clueless on some important stuff that y'all had to add. But that can still be added in the other thread. So again, what's the problem?

ETA @reeko43 As for offensive posts individually being deleted. I dunno about you but there's nothing more annoying to me than to be reading a thread then start to see posts referring to a ghost I cannot see. And I witnessed others get irritated not too long ago about this sort of thing (Exhibit A).Makes it hard to keep up. It's not as if mods are sitting at the PC staring at every thread so then can swipe every offensive thing posted as soon as it happens. Which means, there will be responses or comments on the post way before it goes poof. That means folks who were not there when it was going down will be left wondering what was said, what is everyone talking/laughing/fussing about. I dunno; that'd drive me nuts. IMO all related posts would have to go so that the discussion continues....which if I were a moderator would consider it more work that it's worth.


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## upscale0198 (Aug 5, 2011)

Nonie. I learned about BT in the Hair Forum. I learned about the problem with it in Hair Forum. Paying customer or not, I still should be able to see what was said about a product I learned about on the Hair Forum. What if she wasn't a Vendor and a member posted an issue about the product, where would it have been moved to.

I don't wanna see anything going but informative information. As I stated earlier, I joined back in 2009, and I don't post. I came to learn. Good, bad or indifferent, I should know. If I did post a lot, I would have known not to put a space between your name and @. It is my responsibility to get as much information about something before I purchase it, but I feel like there is nothing wrong with informing someone about a potential problem, even if they aren't paying to know.


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

upscale0198 said:


> @Nonie. I learned about BT in the Hair Forum. I learned about the problem with it in Hair Forum. Paying customer or not, I still should be able to see what was said about a product I learned about on the Hair Forum. What if she wasn't a Vendor and a member posted an issue about the product, where would it have been moved to.
> 
> I don't wanna see anything going but informative information. As I stated earlier, I joined back in 2009, and I don't post. I came to learn. Good, bad or indifferent, I should know. If I did post a lot, I would have known not to put a space between your name and @. It is my responsibility to get as much information about something before I purchase it, but I feel like there is nothing wrong with informing someone about a potential problem, even if they aren't paying to know.



@upscale0198  Not sure what exactly you're still expressing discontent about. The thread didn't go anywhere. The "informative information" is still where it always was : http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=551473 The problem seems to be that it was no longer a hot topic for most people so it got buried as most moved onto other things and you just couldn't find it.

ETA As for informing someone about a potential problem, you're right, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But does that mean that all information on the forum should be posted on the open forums so everyone can see it? I mean, when did LHCF become the 411 for the whole world?  I know I consider it a stroke of luck if I am able to glimpse useful info (or juicy stuff if I'm being nosy) on a forum that is members-only for which I am not a member, but if  I get to a page that says "You need to be registered to continue", I just shrug it off and consider whether it's THAT important to me. Most things in life are not free so that people can't get the info the seek for free shouldn't be a shock or considered an injustice. C'est la vie in the world I live in. *shrug*


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## LittleLuxe (Aug 5, 2011)

As far as the thread it was very informative and I did think it was useful, however I can see why it was closed. It's annoying/disappointing but sometimes everything comes down to a gif party and a joke. I can understand making light of a situation but come on...the majority of women here are too old for all that foolishness. 

I do wish the thread was open only for the sake of new information being added since as far as right now...it looks like she's getting away with it. I do hope the negative thread comes up in a google search at least since she's deleted all other evidence.


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## upscale0198 (Aug 5, 2011)

Nonie. I bought up my point because of the BT thread, but I'm talking about all threads. I simply wanna know why a thread can't be left open and all offensive post deleted. I have seen a lot of forums where information is deleted, and I just figured it was probably nothing I wanted to see anyway. Who knows, depending on what's going on, maybe I would have. What didn't happen was for them to close it so that no one else could contribute. I know you are saying to go to the Vendors thread, but this is about more than BT. Like I said, if she wasn't a Vendor, where would it have gone. For all future threads that are informing, and offensive, do we just shut them down, and hope someone runs across it if they are looking to try something out. I know that post wouldn't have stayed in the fore front long, but why close some that is serving a purpose. Once again, we have seen plenty of post that information is repeated and repeated, and some members have even commented to go back and read the entire post, but they are still open. 

In my opinion, I feel like this is some type of back door censorship. I found out some useful stuff in that forum. Who know, perhaps someone, who hadn't been on the board in the while and seen it, could have contributed more, if it was left open. 

I've read quite a few of your post where you give the SAME great information and I also read one post that tickled me. A poster asked a question about vitamins, and you told her pretty much that you had answered her question in another thread she created. I wanted to see the information about what she was asking, and what you replied, so I had to go and look through her other post you posted. Thank God it was in this section becasue if it had been in another forum, oh well. As valueable as the information I feel you give, I'm not going to another forum to read it. This part takes up a great deal of my life as it is. 

I guess another one of my real concerns is the site is still up and running, and waiting for the taking. So although this may be a paying forum, some information is public. If we can save a person's pocket by leaving information available, what's the real harm. 

Just my little side note - Nioxin is awesome, and I can't thank this forum enough for bringing it to light. I have hair and nail yall!


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

upscale0198 said:


> @Nonie. I bought up my point because of the BT thread, but I'm talking about all threads. I simply wanna know why a thread can't be left open and all offensive post deleted. I have seen a lot of forums where information is deleted, and I just figured it was probably nothing I wanted to see anyway. Who knows, depending on what's going on, maybe I would have. What didn't happen was for them to close it so that no one else could contribute. I know you are saying to go to the Vendors thread, but this is about more than BT. Like I said, if she wasn't a Vendor, where would it have gone. For all future threads that are informing, and offensive, do we just shut them down, and hope someone runs across it if they are looking to try something out. I know that post wouldn't have stayed in the fore front long, but why close some that is serving a purpose. Once again, we have seen plenty of post that information is repeated and repeated, and some members have even commented to go back and read the entire post, but they are still open.
> 
> In my opinion, I feel like this is some type of back door censorship. I found out some useful stuff in that forum. Who know, perhaps someone, who hadn't been on the board in the while and seen it, could have contributed more, if it was left open.
> 
> ...



@upscale0198 when a thread is closed, how does that stop people continually getting info from it? Usually threads close coz a topic is either going off track, getting crazy...but the closing doesn't take away the "informative information" that you are talking about. It's still there.

IMO, leaving a thread on the forum but closing it isn't censorship. What you're suggesting (deleting offensive posts) is what censorship is. And as I showed in the example I labeled Exhibit A it's annoying and waste of time for people who open the thread to read and find themselves lost coz most posts refer to previous invisible posts. You can bet your bottom dollar, the censoring you suggest will come too late; people will have commented or quoted and then what? Delete them too? You got time to do all o' dat if you're a mod?  

In the thread I used as an example, I had to read all the way to page 3 or 4 to find out what people were talking about and the only reason I read so far is I hoped someone quoted the post that I wanted to see and they did. While had it been left where it was, I'd have got my info on page one and moved on. I haven't got the time to read through hundreds of pages trying to figure out what is going on. So removing parts of the whole would just create a pain in the arse, IMO. 

Anyway, the info is always still available when threads are locked. So if it's info we're after, info we will get. Leaving the threads open IMO is not necessary, especially when there isn't anything useful that can be added. If there is, you can start a new thread as a spin-off with an update or new info. Some threads have just run their course and need to come to an end, IMO.


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

LittleLuxe said:


> As far as the thread it was very informative and I did think it was useful, however I can see why it was closed. It's annoying/disappointing but sometimes everything comes down to a gif party and a joke. I can understand making light of a situation but come on...the majority of women here are too old for all that foolishness.
> 
> I do wish the thread was open only for the sake of new information being added since as far as right now...it looks like she's getting away with it. I do hope the negative thread comes up in a google search at least since she's deleted all other evidence.



@LittleLuxe if anyone has new info to add to that discussion, the vendor section has a thread on the same topic that one can post in. That one is still open. I suspect mods figured the discussion was no longer relevant to hair the way it was going but focus was on "vendor" and that it was going to get silly so why wait till then. Might as well lock it while it's still got mostly useful info.


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## reeko43 (Aug 5, 2011)

Personally not feeling the rationale.  But I can agree to disagree.  This is the only forum where I have to pay to participate but someone else decides when members are finished with a thread? I would hope that thread was closed for another reason.  But hey, just waiting out my subsciption anyway so I am not going to give too many hoots about this.


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## brooklyngal73 (Aug 5, 2011)

With that thread being closed, it'll be eventually pushed down by newer posts/threads--no more attention.  The thread should've been made a sticky (as some suggested), so even if it's locked it'll still be focused on.  



Nonie said:


> @reeko43 *And what's wrong with that thread being closed? I guess that's what I don't understand.* IMO there was enough info already posted for any newbie to know what's up, so I guess I don't see how it being closed should affect us one way or another. Now had it disappeared in its entirety, that'd be another matter, and I'd understand that it'd be unfair to remove that info coz it'd serve useful for unsuspecting would-be victims. But even if it did go poof on the hair forum, what's the point of having it when another shares the same info in the rightful place. In other words, what's the beef again?


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## Nonie (Aug 5, 2011)

brooklyngal73 said:


> With that thread being closed, it'll be eventually pushed down by newer posts/threads--no more attention.  The thread should've been made a sticky (as some suggested), so even if it's locked it'll still be focused on.



brooklyngal73 but that's not the first time such a thing has happened. All such discussions have been in the vendor forum and people just came to find out about them either by searching or a newbie asks if anyone has used a certain product and an oldie directs them to the info about it or if it's a "gate" issue a newbie is asking about it there's always info of where to find out more. Maybe I missed something but what makes BT more sticky-worthy than any past such scandals?


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## reeko43 (Aug 5, 2011)

I think all of these "gates" which have shown themselves to be actual scams should be included in a collective place, not buried somewhere in the forum or there should be some rating system for vendors that is easily accessible.  Amazon, eBay and others have this, why not LHCF?


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## Nonie (Aug 6, 2011)

reeko43 said:


> I think all of these "gates" which have shown themselves to be actual scams should be included in a collective place, not buried somewhere in the forum or there should be some rating system for vendors that is easily accessible.  Amazon, eBay and others have this, why not LHCF?



We used to have a star feature for threads and it went south so was taken away. That'd be a good idea to rate vendors but how would it work? On Amazon, you can actually pull up the actual item in question and read reviews and stars given. Not sure how that'd be incorporated on the forum for vendors. Perhaps the review threads could be polls and then you can see what people think. Only problem with polls is people vote but don't always explain, so someone could vote for some unrelated reason (like the person or don't like the person) and skew the results. Interesting suggestion.  I kinda like that reeko43. Would be nice if our brainy dimopoulos (Gotta throw in a li'l encouraging adjective there ) could figure a way.


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