# Mary Mary's new video-GOD IN ME. Too worldly?



## song_of_serenity (Apr 14, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmGxUnyxw9g&feature=channel_page

I hear Steve Harvey was making fun of this video saying it was for the "On the fence" Christians. The ones who still want to go clubbing and enjoy a hot beat but throw God in there and it's all good.

What do you think?
~*Janelle~*


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## divya (Apr 14, 2009)

My response to this is the same as in an earlier thread, just to offer a verse for contemplation...

*1 Peter 2:9* - _But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, *an holy nation, a peculiar people*; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;_

I pray that we as Christians truly realize who we are, who and what we are called to be.

But yes, there is an older thread about this song... There are some posts you may find quite interesting, including one where someone posted this link to a video where Mary Mary said that the CD has "club bangers." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXFwFK-InyU

Thread: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=312975&highlight=mary


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## mellowmel (Apr 14, 2009)

I don't like this video. What's the point with all these secular artists in there, especially Kanye West along with his "jump off" Amber Rose who's a known bisexual. Why are we conforming and making club bangers?! I did like the song but after a while I'd rather listen to Marvin Sapp, Fred Hammond and the likes. I don't appreciate this video and all of this glamorous, material stuff. I thought the plot would be about 2 people who had this stuff but they would show them going home and getting on their knees to pray. Not some runway show with secular artists in the audience. And why are they dressed like that? That whole style was hip-hop and did not remind me that I was looking at gospel artists. As Tye Tribbett's song said as a Christian we must Stand Out. Not conform.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 14, 2009)

I dont like the video because it just looks dumb but I love the song. The video is a bit weird with the type secular artist as well. But they have said (and say) the same thing Kirk, LeCrae, Tye Tribbett. I do believe in contextualizing the gospel and how when deliever the message (meaning using some cultural standards to deliever the message well keeping the gospel the same). The choice of artist in the video was not very good at all but I have no problem with the song.


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## Ramya (Apr 14, 2009)

What on earth do they have on? It's just not age appropriate but anyway... I don't like the video or the song so... It is geared toward bipolar Christians-one foot in and one foot out at the club.


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## sholly6 (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm not sure what I think I'm in my forty's and came up in a Holy ghost church, maybe it's for the young people. erplexed


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 14, 2009)

Thats another thing. I believe they have a tendency to try too hard with the imagine they give off. They are in their thirties and I find they dress like they are teenagers often. Its like dress your age please...


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## meka (Apr 14, 2009)

I have no problem with the song or the video. Maybe the secular artists in the video are saved but not Christian??? Who knows.... I see nothing wrong with their clothes. Maybe they don't wanna dress like "adults". They are comfortable and it shows. 


Sorry, Kanye is in the video. My bad..... but hey, he still may be saved...they don't always do EVERYTHING right.


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## *Frisky* (Apr 14, 2009)

This is a comment from youtube I thought was interesting:

For everybody who is slow...*the song is talking about those people who are in the secular world (i.e. Beyonce, Kanye) who does secular music, but they are people who believe in God. Mary Mary (who are gospel singers) decided to do this song for those people. The song is letting you know that Christians don't look or act a certain way. God is in everything that everybody does.* Geesh...


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## meka (Apr 14, 2009)

marie170 said:


> This is a comment from youtube I thought was interesting:
> 
> For everybody who is slow...*the song is talking about those people who are in the secular world (i.e. Beyonce, Kanye) who does secular music, but they are people who believe in God. Mary Mary (who are gospel singers) decided to do this song for those people. The song is letting you know that Christians don't look or act a certain way. God is in everything that everybody does.* Geesh...


 

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. I dont think that is what they are talking about...


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## PaperClip (Apr 14, 2009)

Interesting responses.... and I'm a little surprised at what I'm going to say. I preface my remarks with this (which I said in another thread on a similar topic):

1. We need to STOP putting LABELS on these folk. Stop calling them "saved". Stop calling them gospel singers. If nothing else, they are ENTERTAINERS. They sing. I did not witness them repent and confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior so who am I to say if they are saved or not? I do not live their daily lives so who am I to know if they are living a life of holiness?

Now to the song/video:

1. The MTV generation has really removed the imagination and music appreciation from us. I couldn't understand the words for the video. 

2. The song has a nice beat but couldn't make out the lyrics. Which is a downfall of some of this so-called "gospel" music: can't hear the lyrics because the music is too distracting.

3. The video is cute (models). I didn't think the clothes were age-inappropriate. It's a MUSIC VIDEO! With a fashion show concept.

4. And it's interesting that people see what they want to see. I didn't focus on the secular artists. I saw Kierra Sheard and Israel Houghton (my favorite!) So it's interesting where some placed their focus.

5. So overall, this video was not the worst offender in the gospel music genre but it's not my flavor.

ETA: the poll does not include a response that captures my sentiment on the subject matter.


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## *Frisky* (Apr 14, 2009)

meka said:


> LOLOLOLOLOLOL. I dont think that is what they are talking about...


 

hahahahaha..I wondered if anyone here would agree. As far as the video, I see both sides. It does appear secular being that various hip hop people are in the video and just the overall feel of it. Gospel music took this turn years ago though probably with Kirk Franklin or maybe even before him I am not really sure. It is the new generation of gospel music. I visited a friends church a month or so ago and she told me that I wouldn't hear any hymns at her church because they are very modern and it is a younger pastor and congregation. I didn't mind that but it just made me wonder if people get side tracked sometimes and they don't look at all aspects of what it means to serve God rather it be to sing a hymn or do something else "old school" as some people might see it. Sometimes going back to our roots in the church is what some people need.


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

*sigh*



*sigh*



*sigh*

I don't like this video.  I mean what's with all the boobs showing and they're huge boobs.  That's something for private home entertainment for husbands.   

Geesh


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## MorenitaBarbie (Apr 14, 2009)

I think people are over analyzing the video and the song. How can expect to reach the people of the world while wearing choir robes, and singing hymns? That was one of the things the kept me running from the church for so long. I literally did not want any parts of heaven. Sitting there bored listening to angels sing all day was not my idea of fun. Hell seemed like more fun to me like one big party. 

Somebody needs to let people who are not saved know that being a christian is fun, and that we serve a fun and loving God. And if God finds their video or song to be inappropriate wouldnt he be the one to deal with them?


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

MorenitaBarbie said:


> I think people are over analyzing the video and the song. How can expect to reach the people of the world while wearing choir robes, and singing hymns? That was one of the things the kept me running from the church for so long. I literally did not want any parts of heaven. Sitting there bored listening to angels sing all day was not my idea of fun. Hell seemed like more fun to me like one big party.
> 
> Somebody needs to let people who are not saved know that being a christian is fun, and that we serve a fun and loving God. And if God finds their video or song to be inappropriate wouldnt he be the one to deal with them?


I hear what you're saying MorenitaBarbie, and not too long ago, I was inclined to 'accept' that especially when Kirk Franklin came on the scene.    

However, I know a lot a men who are 'not churched'.   And the one thing they always say to me is this.   _ "I appreciate you for being 'different'.   You're not out here showing eveything and it makes me respect you and your God all the more and want to know more about your faith. " _

These same men, share time and again about the 'Christian Entertainers', that they're no different than what they see in the street, so why bother with the 'change'.   

Mary, Mary look like tramps in that video.   It doesn't take a choir robe to not show your boobs and your butt and gut hanging out.   It's just plain nasty looking.   They know better and even the world knows better.  

You wouldn't dress that way just to reach out to the lost.   You have too much character to do so.    And I don't have to know you personally to say this.   It's just common knowledge.     

All they're doing is encouraging the 'world' to come get a Jesus Pass and still stay the way they are.    When a person's heart changes for Jesus, their behaviour, mindset and outward appearance changes with it. 

It's just like Foxy Scholar shared, they are 'Entertainers'.   Anybody can sing a Gospel song.   It's a well know fact that most Black Folks can sing and dance.    Okay, that's fine.   But when we're out there ministering to the masses, we are too behave and dress accordingly; not look as if we're offering our bodies as a peep show on the side.   That's just plain ridiculous.   Mary, Mary knows better.     

Even before I was living saved, I knew how not to dress.   Mary Mary are dressing no different than folks who eat, drink, and sleep in bed with the world. 

It's pitiful.  

Sorry, MBarbie.... :Rose:   It's not you, I'm venting about.  It's just that seeing them in this video, made me wonder what's the real message?  It's truly not Jesus.   It's look at my boobs!   Sing another song and leave Jesus out of it.  

    I'm cool


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## tyte curlz (Apr 14, 2009)

marie170 said:


> This is a comment from youtube I thought was interesting:
> 
> For everybody who is slow...*the song is talking about those people who are in the secular world (i.e. Beyonce, Kanye) who does secular music, but they are people who believe in God. Mary Mary (who are gospel singers) decided to do this song for those people. The song is letting you know that Christians don't look or act a certain way. God is in everything that everybody does.* Geesh...


 

Uh i agree somewhat with the post a sin is a sin is a sin, just bc they are on tv or in the music industry doesnt make their sins greater, we just notice them. 

*But what they don't know* is when you go home
And get behind closed doors man you hit the floor
And what they can't see is your on your knees
So the next time you get it just tell em

its the GOD in me


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

tyte curlz said:


> Uh i agree somewhat with the post a sin is a sin is a sin, just bc they are on tv or in the music industry doesnt make their sins greater, we just notice them.
> 
> *But what they don't know* is when you go home
> And get behind closed doors man you hit the floor
> ...


 
Why do Christians hide behind this just to justify their worldly behaviour?    

Ummmmm, ask me how I know.  

That's all I 'm saying.


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## tyte curlz (Apr 14, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Why do Christians hide behind this just to justify their worldly behaviour?
> 
> Ummmmm, ask me how I know.
> 
> That's all I 'm saying.


 

im not sure what you mean...
but i didnt take it as in hide.
It should be seen in all that you do that you are Christian

Personally when i met "crusaders and bible thumpers" as a child i would always wonder why they did this and did that and didnt live 100% to GODs word and so forth. But as a young adult i see how it can turn into a judgement about every little thing you do. "oh your not living for GOD!" "Whould a Christian behave like that?" "That's not in the bible" most believers that i come across would rather show their devotion only to the lord and not to us. JMO


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## meka (Apr 14, 2009)

How are Christians supposed to look? I understand modesty but your modesty may not be someone else's. Christians right here on this very board gossip and do everything else but people are supposed to know you are Christian? You have to listen to what folks are saying not how they look. You are to be who you are 24-7. Whether its for your husband or not. You are to be the SAME. Some talk about the beat of the song and how "wordly" it sounds. Nowadays, EVERYTHING is sounding the same. Secular artists have often said that they get their influence from gospel artists. So what's the difference?


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## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

meka said:


> How are Christians supposed to look? I understand modesty but your modesty may not be someone else's. Christians right here on this very board gossip and do everything else but people are supposed to know you are Christian? You have to listen to what folks are saying not how they look. *You are to be who you are 24-7. Whether its for your husband or not. You are to be the SAME. *Some talk about the beat of the song and how "wordly" it sounds. Nowadays, EVERYTHING is sounding the same. Secular artists have often said that they get their influence from gospel artists. So what's the difference?



I disagree with this.  What you show/do for your husband doesn't need to be what you show to the outside world.  For example, if you dress sexy for your husband, you don't need to dress sexy everyday for the outside world just be "who you are."


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## meka (Apr 14, 2009)

hairlove said:


> I disagree with this. What you show/do for your husband doesn't need to be what you show to the outside world. For example, if you dress sexy for your husband, you don't need to dress sexy everyday for the outside world just be "who you are."


 

Their sexy may not be your sexy. I just wonder who makes other folks the authority on what people wear and whether it's inapporpiate.


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## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

meka said:


> Their sexy may not be your sexy. *I just wonder who makes other folks the authority on what people wear and whether it's inappropriate.*



I don't think anyone has any authority except God.

ETA:  I was just giving an example regarding husband/wife and sexiness.


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## meka (Apr 14, 2009)

hairlove said:


> I don't think anyone has any authority except God.
> 
> ETA:* I was just giving an example regarding husband/wife and sexiness*.


 


I get what you are saying though Hairlove. But my feelings on that just differ.


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## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

meka said:


> I get what you are saying though Hairlove. But my feelings on that just differ.



That is ok.


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

meka said:


> *How are Christians supposed to look?*
> 
> I understand modesty but your modesty may not be someone else's. Christians right here on this very board gossip and do everything else but people are supposed to know you are Christian? You have to listen to what folks are saying not how they look. You are to be who you are 24-7. Whether its for your husband or not. You are to be the SAME. Some talk about the beat of the song and how "wordly" it sounds. Nowadays, EVERYTHING is sounding the same. Secular artists have often said that they get their influence from gospel artists. So what's the difference?


Not like a street munchkin begging for attention.    

Proverbs 31 says it all.    It wasn't her exposure of her bosom that gave her virtue, it was her character.  

Ce-Ce Winans is a perfect example of humility and Christianity in public ministry.    She brings the attention where it belongs, which is upon God in worship, honor and praise.      

It's a lie to think that we have to compromise virtue to gather those lost in the world.    What this type of dress says to the young and lost is that, you don't have to change a thing.   _Stay the way you are.     Keep your tat's and your cracks with your low rider jeans, keep showing your belly and by all means let the boobs hang out to play.  _

There's a dress code for Ministry which is indeed Ministry.    It's not rocket science.   Even sinners know the difference.  

God has blessed me and He has allowed me to be beautifully endowed, but it's for my husband to see.    And just because someone disagrees doesn't make it any less right.    When men and women are in Ministry, they are to present themselves as such and not less.   

How is a man supposed to focus on Jesus when a huge pair of boobs are jumping up in his face?   Or a shaking booty.   It's no different than the club.   He's not going to take Jesus seriously.    It's one of the reasons, these men do come to Church and think they can still have sex outside of marriage with the 'Church' sisters.   Afterall, they don't look nor act any different than what they have in the clubs.    The jumping and the bumping are all the same.   Jesus is just a label to them, not a broken spirit nor a contrite heart, which is what God desires and requires.   

These men are not planted by the waters but by lust of the eye and it's not a game.    This Jesus message becomes lost to them.    The same applies to these Christian men who dress with the tight jeans, open shirts, and so on.  The girls looking at them are not into receiving Jesus so much as they are looking to be scored by one of them.    

And before anyone jumps in to share about a big mass of hearts that come to the Altar for salvation.   The question is , "How many stay there and to what measure have they surrendered their all to Jesus?".   

Our clothing does make a difference.   There's a time and a place for everything.    When one is 'Ministering', than the dress code calls for such.     

I understand women who wish to look attractive, and I also understand a casual relaxed dress code, I'm one of them, but there is a standard that needs to be honored in the name of Ministry.    When I 'm ministering, I'm not out in my Dance class leotards or tight capris.   There's a place for that in my class,  but it's not in public Ministry.    

Mary Mary are not built to wear the expose' of their excessive cleavage.    Even my children know that.   Folks aren't dumb.  They know.  Even the folks in Church who 'object' to what I'm saying know this.   It's just plain common sense, that's all.   

Blessings....


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## hurricane (Apr 14, 2009)

*We now have Christians who want to express their individuality with the way they dress, look, and sound. I don't like it. When you are ministering you should decrease and God should increase. Too much us and not enough Him. People become upset when corrected because this is " their " style. ( Arrogance/Pride).*

*When you meet Queen Elizabeth there is certain protocol because you are in the presene of royalty ( here on earth ). Why should the Father be any different? *


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## MA2010 (Apr 14, 2009)

hurricane said:


> *We now have Christians who want to express their individuality with the way they dress, look, and sound. I don't like it. When you are ministering you should decrease and God should increase. Too much us and not enough Him. People become upset when corrected because this is " their " style. ( Arrogance/Pride).*
> 
> *When you meet Queen Elizabeth there is certain protocol because you are in the presene of royalty ( here on earth ). Why should the Father be any different? *


 
Gone and preach Hurricane!!! I agree with all that.............!!!

I don't care for the song or the video . Just my honest opinion.


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

hurricane said:


> *We now have Christians who want to express their individuality with the way they dress, look, and sound. I don't like it. When you are ministering you should decrease and God should increase. Too much us and not enough Him. People become upset when corrected because this is " their " style. ( Arrogance/Pride).*
> 
> *When you meet Queen Elizabeth there is certain protocol because you are in the presene of royalty ( here on earth ). Why should the Father be any different? *


 
Good for you!      This is the Gospel Truth, Hurricane.   And you just _'blew'_ the devil away with it, too, with his lying self.   

I was *just* talking to my daughter about this topic of discussion and she said exactly what you shared above.   _"Too much us and not enough Him."_  And she also shared how there are some people who get upset when corrected, because they don't want to change or feel convicted.

You're so right about protocol and the Queen.  My Pastor tells us all the time, that if we can give honor to those in authority here on earth, how much more should we then give unto the Lord?  For He is MORE than Worthy to be honored and praised.   Praise Him!  Bless the name of Jesus!

The world laughs at us.  They think we feel that we are 'missing' something in our faith and that we come to the world for completion.   

A guy told me once that he didn't see much point in coming to Church because it wasn't much different than what he was seeing in the clubs.  Men want to respect women and they 'do' respect women who show respect for themselves.    

We don't needs boobs and butts as 'fish bait' for Jesus.  It's by His Spirit, which will draw them, saith the Lord.


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## MA2010 (Apr 14, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Good for you!  This is the Gospel Truth, Hurricane. And you just _'blew'_ the devil away with it, too, with his lying self.
> 
> I was *just* talking to my daughter about this topic of discussion and she said exactly what you shared above. _"Too much us and not enough Him."_ And she also shared how there are some people who get upset when corrected, because they don't want to change or feel convicted.
> 
> ...


 
I don'y feel like I am missing out on anything. I'm learning each and everyday to forget my flesh and just follow Christ. 

I have family members that chastise me to this day because they just don't get why they as Christians can't go to clubs, booty shake, "drank", and carry on like everybody else.

"Christians" can do what they please, but I know that God has set me apart from that when I was saved by the blood of Jesus Christ . My convictions are just that........MINE!!!!


............let me go humble myself Shimmie. You got me all worked up.


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## CandiceC (Apr 14, 2009)

I like the song. 

I would have changed up the video though including removing Kanye and Amber Rose.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 14, 2009)

Preach Shimmie Preach



Shimmie said:


> Not like a street munchkin begging for attention.
> 
> Proverbs 31 says it all. It wasn't her exposure of her bosom that gave her virtue, it was her character.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

Manushka said:


> I don'y feel like I am missing out on anything. I'm learning each and everyday to forget my flesh and just follow Christ.
> 
> I have family members that chastise me to this day because they just don't get why they as Christians can't go to clubs, booty shake, "drank", and carry on like everybody else.
> 
> ...


I'm going to humble right along with you, pretty lady :Rose:  

There's a lot that I thought I wanted to do, but I just don't want it.   

I look at my friends who are still in the world, and they are sad as can be.  They've tated about as much of their skin as they can (each tatoo to get an 'ooo' from a guy to notice a body part that he hasn't paid attention to before).  You know what?  Even in the Dance community, I have to wonder, just how much more will these Dancers take off, just to compete for attention.  I mean, come on, let him discover your beauty God's way.  

I dunno...  

We were saved by Grace; Jesus literally 'rescued' us from the disaster of the world and it's ways, why go back or hang onto to it?  Christians are naked, we've been clothed in His righteousness, His garments of praise, and all of His splendor of love and honor and grace. 

There's a Native American prayer that I love and these words touch my heart.  

_Oh Great Spirit, _

_Let me walk in beauty..._

It means to walk in pureness, the beauty of the Lord. 

Each day, I pray, Holy Spirit, let me walk in beauty that honors you.  

When I Dance, let me be graceful, flowing, mellow, soft, peaceful, giving honor to you.  _ Fully covered_, God always allows me to float as an angel or sway softly as lillies in the field.   

_Holy Spirit, Let me walk in beauty...._ 

In Jesus' Name, Amen :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Preach Shimmie Preach


Hey little sis....


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 14, 2009)

ffrant:You can be fly and age appropriate...thats all i'm sayin'


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## mscocoface (Apr 14, 2009)

Don't really like the video does not match up with the words to me.


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 15, 2009)

Dont think the video matches with the words either.  (it was a lil disappointing) Only because i thought it would have had a different concept.. the video is not a bad one minus some of the folks in it, but i saw no breast jumping around etc.  maybe i missed that part


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## divya (Apr 15, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Good for you!      This is the Gospel Truth, Hurricane.   And you just _'blew'_ the devil away with it, too, with his lying self.
> 
> I was *just* talking to my daughter about this topic of discussion and she said exactly what you shared above.   _"Too much us and not enough Him."_  And she also shared how there are some people who get upset when corrected, because they don't want to change or feel convicted.
> 
> ...



That's it right there!


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## pearlygurl (Apr 15, 2009)

I love the song and I love the video.  From all the talk here I was expecting to see something much worse. I actually didn't find any of the clothes in the video inappropriate or not age appropriate.  But if you do that's fine.  I'm not here to try to change your mind.

*"Too worldly"* will forever be an ongoing debate between Christians.  Is the beat of the song influenced by today's sound? Of course! John P. Kee's music was heavily influenced by "wordly" music (and he got flack over it) because he used to play for certain secular bands.  Now his sound is considered a "standard" sound in gospel music.  

We really don't know how many people these artists have reached and what lives they've changed.  I don't think that just because something sounds/looks a certain way  negates it's ability to be an effective witnessing tool.  Mary Mary's sound is geared (but not limited to) a certain audience.  Just like artists like Alvin Slaughter, Hillsong, or BarlowGirl (Christian Rock) will reach a certain audience.  As long as the message is there I'm good.  If you don't find it appealing, that's your preference.   

Oh yeah...wasn't that *Israel Houghton* in the video at the end?


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## Samory07 (Apr 15, 2009)

I actually love the song but the video...not so much . I did feel as though it was inappropriate to have Kanye West and his girlfriend in there. I saw this because Kanye does say that he is a Christian and he is a very talented artist but his lyrics and the language he uses doesn't glorify God, IMHO. Also is his girlfriend is bisexual like someone else has pointed out then no she should not be in the video either because God does not approve of that lifestyle. 

I felt as though they might of been trying to hard with this video. I think they should of stuck with the lyrics and made it something that got the message of the song across. When I get this CD I was a little apprehensive because I knew that they had a song with David Banner....that in my opinion has slightly questionable lyrics and to me Mary Mary has been somewhat been on the fence to me for a while.  So I was not sure what to expect from this cd, but I must say that it was better than I thought, they just to make sure that God is being glorified in everything they do.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 15, 2009)

Not regards to the video but in general: 

Your appearance is apart of your witnessing tools. People you witness to need to see as well as hear that there's a difference between the world and God's family. If they see no difference they will believe, "I can be a "Christian" and never change a thing." 

The reason that the "too worldy" argument is because its so so true and its a threat to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Sure Christan can nit-pic at issues that dont matter. However, Christianity is moving steadily toward a level of tolerance thats contrary to God. If you make compromises in the little things you give place to the devil for bigger things. More and more Christians are welcoming all kinds of mess into the church, taking scripture out of context to back it up, and leading many astray. Paul Washer made this comment, "American Christianity is a joke." He's right. We are to be holy, sanctified, set apart, pure, born-again in love.


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## inthepink (Apr 15, 2009)

pearlygurl said:


> I love the song and I love the video.  From all the talk here I was expecting to see something much worse. I actually didn't find any of the clothes in the video inappropriate or not age appropriate.  But if you do that's fine.  I'm not here to try to change your mind.



I was thinking the same but then I realized that the thread was just talking about clothing/clubbing in general.  (at least I think! )


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## Aviah (Apr 15, 2009)

All I know is... God is NOT in everything everyone does...
IMHO it hits right in the middle about what it represents, not fully one or the other...
And I'm not old at all... Just 20
 Our discussions will not take the video off air, thought I understand the points made
Hey those who like it, listen to it, but listen harder to the spirit. Those who don't, leave it.


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## MrsQueeny (Apr 15, 2009)

hurricane said:


> *We now have Christians who want to express their individuality with the way they dress, look, and sound. I don't like it. When you are ministering you should decrease and God should increase. Too much us and not enough Him. People become upset when corrected because this is " their " style. ( Arrogance/Pride).*
> 
> *When you meet Queen Elizabeth there is certain protocol because you are in the presene of royalty ( here on earth ). Why should the Father be any different? *



Confirmation, Confirmation, Confirmation!!!
We have been discussing the Tabernacle in bible study. Last night one of the things my Pastor said was it showed us that we can't come to God any old way. Everything about it's construction, to how it was to be entered and maintained was very precise. Why would God build a place of worship here on earth when He had one in Heaven? Because He wanted to show us how to act when we get to His house in Heaven.  When it comes to God, it's not about you, it's about Him. He is God all by himself, we just need to fall in line and be who HE called us to be, not who we think we should be!!! I advise everyone to do their own study about it because it's amazing. Thank you for your post!!! Q


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## saved06 (Apr 15, 2009)

I don't think Kanye and secular people should have been in the video. I don't get this "we got to reach the youth by any means necessary" agenda. When I came to God it wasn't because of hip hop beats and artist. The holy spirit is what reached me. And too many songs are about self. I am really concerned. Because if God was really in you, you would know... 

Ephesians 5:11 (English Standard Version)
11 Take no part in the unfruitful, works of darkness, but instead,expose them.

What does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul....


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## saved06 (Apr 15, 2009)

This comment was posted under the video:


*"This video is an abomination to our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, those worldy things do not reflect the God in you. Repentence killin sin trusting in God, holiness, godliness is what reflect the God in someone. Mary Mary should really examine the music they make. I did not even hear Christ name mentioned in that video nothing about the repentence or the cross of christ. Lets just pray for them that God grants them repentance, as well as all those celebrities on that video as well."*


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 15, 2009)

You know the gospel CD that has made the most change in my walk is by a Gospel rap artist, LeCrae. His Rebel CD is the truth. And i dont like rap music so I was surprised I like his CD so much. I used to hate listening to some gospel bcause it was so surface. LeCrae uses urban beats but the lyrics are 100% authentic. Its not about what I got but what God has done in him. He has a song about Jesus dying for the church, temptation, being set apart, missionary work overseas, etc...Real stuff but this prosperity surface music.

I say this because its ok to contextualize the Gospel (meaning using cultural standards to spread the gospel). Examples are using Youtube, social networking, podcast, TV, internet, new sounds, etc to reach others. But we have to be careful not to taint the Gospel. 

Though, I like the song this is my problem with it. Christianity has been known to be the prosperity religion. Get saved, get a car. Get saved, get a house. Get saved, fix your marriege. Though these are the perks, that not what Christianity is about. Its about a relationship with God that keeps you from his wrath. Its all about him. This song (if your not careful) will give you the impression that the God in me makes me fly, driving a nice car, having monet. God is not a slot machine.


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## divya (Apr 15, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> You know the gospel CD that has made the most change in my walk is by a Gospel rap artist, LeCrae. His Rebel CD is the truth. And i dont like rap music so I was surprised I like his CD so much. I used to hate listening to some gospel bcause it was so surface. LeCrae uses urban beats but the lyrics are 100% authentic. Its not about what I got but what God has done in him. He has a song about Jesus dying for the church, temptation, being set apart, missionary work overseas, etc...Real stuff but this prosperity surface music.
> 
> I say this because its ok to contextualize the Gospel (meaning using cultural standards to spread the gospel). Examples are using Youtube, social networking, podcast, TV, internet, new sounds, etc to reach others. But we have to be careful not to taint the Gospel.
> 
> *Though, I like the song this is my problem with it. Christianity has been known to be the prosperity religion. Get saved, get a car. Get saved, get a house. Get saved, fix your marriege. Though these are the perks, that not what Christianity is about. Its about a relationship with God that keeps you from his wrath. Its all about him. This song (if your not careful) will give you the impression that the God in me makes me fly, driving a nice car, having monet. God is not a slot machine.*



So true. If that's all a person believes, how will they be able to stand if they go through persecution/trials/tribulation? Will they believe that God is not there because don't have material things? During the Dark Ages, Christians were horribly persecuted for standing up for what is right. People were burning to death at the stake and singing praises to the Lord. Does the prosperity message understand serving God through good and bad?


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## Browndilocks (Apr 15, 2009)

Honestly, I didnt think the video was that bad.  Where were they dressed inappropriately where their boobs were showing?  Missed that.  They could have done without some of the celebs in the video and OMG Kiki needs lap band surgery, but I think they were dressed according to the concept of the video. *shrugs*


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 15, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> You know the gospel CD that has made the most change in my walk is by a Gospel rap artist, LeCrae. His Rebel CD is the truth. And i dont like rap music so I was surprised I like his CD so much. I used to hate listening to some gospel bcause it was so surface. LeCrae uses urban beats but the lyrics are 100% authentic. Its not about what I got but what God has done in him. He has a song about Jesus dying for the church, temptation, being set apart, missionary work overseas, etc...Real stuff but this prosperity surface music.
> 
> I say this because its ok to contextualize the Gospel (meaning using cultural standards to spread the gospel). Examples are using Youtube, social networking, podcast, TV, internet, new sounds, etc to reach others. But we have to be careful not to taint the Gospel.
> 
> Though, I like the song this is my problem with it. Christianity has been known to be the prosperity religion. Get saved, get a car. Get saved, get a house. Get saved, fix your marriege. Though these are the perks, that not what Christianity is about. Its about a relationship with God that keeps you from his wrath. Its all about him. This song (if your not careful) will give you the impression that the God in me makes me fly, driving a nice car, having monet. God is not a slot machine.


 
 LOVE LECRAE by the way..


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 15, 2009)

Browndilocks said:


> Honestly, I didnt think the video was that bad. Where were they dressed inappropriately where their boobs were showing? Missed that. They could have done without some of the celebs in the video and OMG *Kiki needs lap band surgery*, but I think they were dressed according to the concept of the video. *shrugs*


 
WOW... that's the last thing that was inappropriate in the video! LOL *shaking head*


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2009)

pearlygurl said:


> I love the song and I love the video. From all the talk here I was expecting to see something much worse. I actually didn't find any of the clothes in the video inappropriate or not age appropriate. But if you do that's fine. I'm not here to try to change your mind.
> 
> *"Too worldly"* will forever be an ongoing debate between Christians. Is the beat of the song influenced by today's sound? Of course! John P. Kee's music was heavily influenced by "wordly" music (and he got flack over it) because he used to play for certain secular bands. Now his sound is considered a "standard" sound in gospel music.
> 
> ...


This is where we have to be all the more careful.   For every 'seed' produces after its own kind.     

There still has to be a 'standard' of decency whether we are Christian or non-Christian.     Even in a professional office environment, one would not expose their cleavage as such.   They can still reach the masses, but they need to still represent a standard in dress and not look like a hot mess.   Be an example to the young ladies who follow them, by not showing excessive flesh; otherwise, what's the point?     

As for Isreal Houghton, no matter who was in the video, it was still indecent exposure, clothing wise.    Mary Mary has been distastefully dressed even on TV ministries and as Church guests.   A few years ago they were guests at the West Angeles Church of God (Pastor Charles Blake).   Top too tight  skirt didn't fit right.   It was horrible.     Straight from the street.  They have more than enough money to buy descent clothing for Ministry.  

Even Yolanda Adams has begun to 'over-show' and singing about Jesus doesn't cover it.   Not one bit.  

The problem is that folks have become de-sensatized and they no longer 'see' what's wrong with wrong.


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> You know the gospel CD that has made the most change in my walk is by a Gospel rap artist, LeCrae. His Rebel CD is the truth. And i dont like rap music so I was surprised I like his CD so much. I used to hate listening to some gospel bcause it was so surface. LeCrae uses urban beats but the lyrics are 100% authentic. Its not about what I got but what God has done in him. He has a song about Jesus dying for the church, temptation, being set apart, missionary work overseas, etc...Real stuff but this prosperity surface music.
> 
> I say this because its ok to contextualize the Gospel (meaning using cultural standards to spread the gospel). Examples are using Youtube, social networking, podcast, TV, internet, new sounds, etc to reach others. But we have to be careful not to taint the Gospel.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2009)

saved06 said:


> I don't think Kanye and secular people should have been in the video. I don't get this "we got to reach the youth by any means necessary" agenda. When I came to God it wasn't because of hip hop beats and artist. The holy spirit is what reached me. And too many songs are about self. I am really concerned. Because if God was really in you, you would know...
> 
> Ephesians 5:11 (English Standard Version)
> 11 Take no part in the unfruitful, works of darkness, but instead,expose them.
> ...


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2009)

***Victory is Mine said:


> Confirmation, Confirmation, Confirmation!!!
> We have been discussing the Tabernacle in bible study. Last night one of the things my Pastor said was it showed us that we can't come to God any old way. Everything about it's construction, to how it was to be entered and maintained was very precise. Why would God build a place of worship here on earth when He had one in Heaven? Because He wanted to show us how to act when we get to His house in Heaven. When it comes to God, it's not about you, it's about Him. He is God all by himself, we just need to fall in line and be who HE called us to be, not who we think we should be!!! I advise everyone to do their own study about it because it's amazing. Thank you for your post!!! Q


 
 

When we were growing up, we did not wear pants to Church.   My parents always had special clothing set aside that was for Church ONLY!  

We were taught to look and give our best when we enter into the House of God for worship.     

I will admit that I have worn pantsuits to Church, and even jogging sets or jeans to some of our Women's Activities, but it was only when Pastor shared that it was appropriate to do so.    Even then, it was in order, because it wasn't tight and hugging my butt or boobs.


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## dicapr (Apr 15, 2009)

The video was bad.  However, I like their CD.  I am someone who has never really liked traditional gospel music and can only take it in small doses. Add a choir and I am ready to slit my wrists.  This is the type of music I prefer to listen to.  As a christian who tries to stay away from things that bring down my spirituality, I didn't recognize most of the celebraties in the video.  I also did not recognize the "club" vibe of the song because I am not out clubbing.  I can appreciate the lyrics but was oblivious to the fact of who exactly Kanye's girlfriend is in the video and did not know until reading the thread that she was bi.  My question is that if we as chrisitians know and recognize all these things whose fault is it?  It can't remind you of the world if you aren't still out there checking in to see how the old gang is doing.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 15, 2009)

I understand your point however. 

Christianity doesnt and shouldnt put you in a bubble. Knowing whats going on is vital to being an effective witness. Especially if your trying to educate the "baby" christian and the unsaved youth that think certain things are cool to do.  

I am beginning to work with young girls. The best way to teach them about the stories in the bible is to apply it to something that is culturally familiar to them. We use their music, their clothes, the boys they like, their slang...etc. Most think the bible is just a bunch of laws for old folk but its so revelant and we have to teach them how revelant until they get it themselves.

Its a delicate balance of research vs. not becoming just like the world which requires prayer and wisdom. 

However I know there are some thing I dont engage in because I know I am not spiritually strong enough to handle it. 




dicapr said:


> The video was bad. However, I like their CD. I am someone who has never really liked traditional gospel music and can only take it in small doses. Add a choir and I am ready to slit my wrists. This is the type of music I prefer to listen to. As a christian who tries to stay away from things that bring down my spirituality, I didn't recognize most of the celebraties in the video. I also did not recognize the "club" vibe of the song because I am not out clubbing. I can appreciate the lyrics but was oblivious to the fact of who exactly Kanye's girlfriend is in the video and did not know until reading the thread that she was bi. My question is that if we as chrisitians know and recognize all these things whose fault is it? It can't remind you of the world if you aren't still out there checking in to see how the old gang is doing.


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 15, 2009)

Even though we LIVE in the world, we dont have to be OF the world, BUT be very careful not to get sooo puffed up, and so judgemental that we become useless to the world, went we are so holy that we cannot reach "worldly" people by being judgemental. Jesus sat down with everyone, and never judged.. we must be careful!!!!!  He preached the truth and left you with a decision to make. Lets not get so puffed up that we miss out purpose which is to save lives, build the kingdom and be warriors for Christ.  Everything we do there is a way to go about it. Slandering Mary Mary for the choices that they make is not acceptable either. Pray for em' and move on.


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## Glib Gurl (Apr 15, 2009)

Re: the video - Uh, what that got to do with Jesus?  

I am actually very disappointed because I *love* this song and I thought the video would be feature a character going through life with all of the material trappings but then showing how they also pray, give charitably, attend church, etc. THAT, to me, is the heart of the song - that the blessing come from the Lord.  The fashion show concept is just played out to me, period. 

I am another one who agrees that Mary Mary needs to act they age - especially Tina with them glasses 

Nice try, but from both an entertainment and a spiritual perspective, I have to give them a FAIL.


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## hurricane (Apr 15, 2009)

***Victory is Mine said:


> Confirmation, Confirmation, Confirmation!!!
> We have been discussing the Tabernacle in bible study. Last night one of the things my Pastor said was it showed us that we can't come to God any old way. Everything about it's construction, to how it was to be entered and maintained was very precise. Why would God build a place of worship here on earth when He had one in Heaven? Because He wanted to show us how to act when we get to His house in Heaven. When it comes to God, it's not about you, it's about Him. He is God all by himself, we just need to fall in line and be who HE called us to be, not who we think we should be!!! I advise everyone to do their own study about it because it's amazing. Thank you for your post!!! Q


 ____________________________________________________________

*Yes, Yes, Yes. The Father called us out of the world but we are still trying to hold on by any means necessary. When God released his children from Egypt, and Moses was out of sight. The children reverted back to their " old Nature". Same here we want to be like everyone else but God has something greater in minded. *

*Abraham is an excellent example. His very own father served idol gods but when Abraham heard the voice of God he abandoned it all and worship the True and Living God.*


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## meka (Apr 15, 2009)

Maybe Im missing it but I dont see where they were "overexposed". If you don't like the beat...then don't listen. I love Mary Mary and their music doesn't make me wanna drop it like its hot. It's about the lyrics. If people can't keep their minds stayed on Christ and listen to the message of the song, then who is at fault? Everybody is not going to like everything. It's all about whether God is pleased with it.  And since none of us are God, then......it's just our opinion.


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## blazingthru (Apr 15, 2009)

tyte curlz said:


> Uh i agree somewhat with the post a sin is a sin is a sin, just bc they are on tv or in the music industry doesnt make their sins greater, we just notice them.
> 
> *But what they don't know* is when you go home
> And get behind closed doors man you hit the floor
> ...


 you know this is my take on this. When I see them and I dont' know about christ ( not saying me but others) I would think oh its cool to be a christian you can be sexy, hot and in with the world.  I can identify with the tight jeans and make up and jewerly its all cool and all that I can still be me but be a christian and be hyped. I even saw on youtube a guy say oh yeah if they play music like this in the church I will go next week. What!!  Doesn't God call Christians to come out of the world to hate all the evil that is apart of the world. Aren't we to be separate. Not comforming to the world. Aren't we suppose to fear God? When I first heard this song on the radio I really had to check my station I thought those kids were in my car again messing with the radio but here it was on a gospel station and then later when I was out in the stores and heard it like I posted before It took me back to my club days. Everytime i hear this song. I see my self at the bar in the club with my drinks.....


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## pearlygurl (Apr 15, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> This is where we have to be all the more careful. For every 'seed' produces after its own kind.
> 
> There still has to be a 'standard' of decency whether we are Christian or non-Christian. Even in a professional office environment, one would not expose their cleavage as such. They can still reach the masses, but they need to still represent a standard in dress and not look like a hot mess. Be an example to the young ladies who follow them, by not showing excessive flesh; otherwise, what's the point?
> 
> ...


 

All I was saying in my post was that Mary Mary's sound (music/beats) will appeal to certain people. That's normal and there's nothing wrong with that. Nicole C. Mullen has many fans but her music doesn't appeal to me. I like what I like. 

As for how Mary Mary dresses I agree with you.  I've seen them on serveral occassions with tight clothes or too much cleavage showing. However in *this* particular video I did not find what they were wearing inappropriate. 

And as for Israel Houghton I was honestly wondering if that was him in the video because I wasn't sure (hats on people tend to throw me off! ).


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 15, 2009)

For those that are a little lost this is what being said. MaryMary has been known to not dress appropriate for their audition (young Christians or unsaved)

I personally like there outfits but I am a young person. However if I am trying to reach young girls this isnt a effective image to send them. If they want to wear these things on an off day, go right ahead. They arent always terrible but some things are borderline. And unfortunately that is has to be a standard they uphold because they have a following and they've been around a long time. 






Video girlish





Cleavage 





Off the shoulder, cleavege 

If they were regular joes we probably wouldnt care but saying your a Christian and becoming like Christ is to different things. Its a process for everyone and everyone matures at different rates but they've been around for a long time. Its almost like they should know to be fully covered. especially when ministering to young souls.  

In comparison, CECE Winans is always covered...showing nothing but a pretty smile and nice hair. 















These are all well-endowed women. They have to be careful not the show off the goodies. Unlike the smaller,petite women of the world (like myself ), wearing certain clothing wouldnt be offensive because we dont have it like that (oh the double standards of life). So alot of things are being considered when discussing whats appropriate (popularity in the Gospel community, their age, being well-endowed, how long they've been around).


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## divya (Apr 15, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> Even though we LIVE in the world, we dont have to be OF the world, BUT be very careful not to get sooo puffed up, and so judgemental that we become useless to the world, went we are so holy that we cannot reach "worldly" people by being judgemental. Jesus sat down with everyone, and never judged.. we must be careful!!!!!  He preached the truth and left you with a decision to make. Lets not get so puffed up that we miss out purpose which is to save lives, build the kingdom and be warriors for Christ.  Everything we do there is a way to go about it. Slandering Mary Mary for the choices that they make is not acceptable either. Pray for em' and move on.



I agree with you that we must strive to be humble and not puffed up. However, I think the ladies here are really just concerned. The devil is attacking because as the Bible says, he knows his time is short. We just want the avenues not only to our minds but to the minds of young people protected. We pray that others see God in all of us, including Mary Mary. So this isn't meant to slander, but just show that we care about the message. Not just the message from our mouths but in our dress too. Lastly, yes...we should pray for them. Absolutely.


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## inthepink (Apr 15, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> These are all well-endowed women. They have to be careful not the show off the goodies. Unlike the smaller,petite women of the world (like myself ), wearing certain clothing wouldnt be offensive because we dont have it like that (oh the double standards of life). So alot of things are being considered when discussing whats appropriate (popularity in the Gospel community, their age, being well-endowed, how long they've been around).



Thanks pretty - I was a little lost in looking at the video and reading some of the remarks regarding their clothing.  I am not a Mary Mary or CeCe fan so I wasn't aware of how they typically dress.  NOw seeing the pictures, I can totally understand your point.

I didn't think the second picture of Mary Mary was too bad but I thought about it and I see your point - the off the shoulder, slight view of the bra and glimpse of the breast.  Not modest.

To your second point, about being well-endowed.  I know what you mean.  It bothers me b/c I am small but I have a large bust.  So, that same cute snug fitting t-shirt that B-cup Sally can wear, I can't wear.  Me wearing it would send a whole different message.

I think CeCe looks so classy.  I am in the process of updating my own wardrobe and I will be paying attention to modesty.  There won't be any "I think I can get away with this."   If it's not modest, it's going back to the store!

Thank you!!!


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> Even though we LIVE in the world, we dont have to be OF the world, BUT be very careful not to get sooo puffed up, and so judgemental that we become useless to the world, went we are so holy that we cannot reach "worldly" people by being judgemental. Jesus sat down with everyone, and never judged.. we must be careful!!!!! He preached the truth and left you with a decision to make. Lets not get so puffed up that we miss out purpose which is to save lives, build the kingdom and be warriors for Christ.  Everything we do there is a way to go about it. Slandering Mary Mary for the choices that they make is not acceptable either. Pray for em' and move on.


Yes we must be quite careful.  

Careful about becoming too 'lax' and letting things slide until it gets out of hand.  

I have young girls and most of the music in my home is Gospel and Worship music.   Mary Mary is one of several in our family's music library.   However, in the same manner that my girls are not defined by Hannah Montana, Britney Spears and the like, neither will I allow my girls to follow the dress code of Mary Mary and some other 'Christian Rockers' who do not present themselves appropriately dressed.    Not a 'slam' but a fact.  

I'm calling a spade a spade.   In this video, they have a clip of them wearing a dress that is designed to show cleavage (the shoulders are bare giving the barely there appearance).  It's there.  No one is going to tell me that it's appropriate for Ministering God's word or the plan of salvation.   Let's be real, this is how they choose to dress and then they cover it up with a 'cliche' that no one knows their relationship with God.    The Holy Spirit has not directed them to Minister like that.  

I don't want to hear the excuses.   That's why things are messed up in the Church as it is.   No standards, too many lax attitudes.  Too many blinders.   I'm IN the world, and my witness doesn't take a worldly dress code to get the love of God across, to anyone of any age.   I have more  repore with younger teens and adults than I can count and they appreciate the difference that I represent.   They know that when they around me, to dress appropriately.   

The Youth Groups that we minister to know better than to dress in the crop tee shirts, low riders, the boys pants are not hanging gangsta low showing their underwear and so on.   Like I said before, I have girls and they can be very impressionable.  The boys and girls in my home and in Ministry respect themselves and each other.   

I like Mary Mary, but I don't have to compromise a standard of decency.  Even secular fashion experts would have a problem with this type of appearance.   It's not attractive neither is Ministry. 

No one is slamming Mary Mary, nor is anyone judging, just as I am sure that you're not judging neither 'slamming' those who oppose their dress code.   I'm simply not applauding their lack of conscience and lack of taste in the way they present themselves as Ministers.   They know better. 

Bllessings and I truly mean it.  No slams against you.  :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> For those that are a little lost this is what being said. MaryMary has been known to not dress appropriate for their audition (young Christians or unsaved)
> 
> I personally like there outfits but I am a young person. However if I am trying to reach young girls this isnt a effective image to send them. If they want to wear these things on an off day, go right ahead. They arent always terrible but some things are borderline. And unfortunately that is has to be a standard they uphold because they have a following and they've been around a long time.
> 
> ...


  Larger bosom women, cannot wear certain garments in public.  (Did I spell bosom right?)   

I wear a 'minimizer' bra 'often', especially when I go to Church.  And I always wear a light jacket or lacy coverlet of some sort over my sweaters or blouses or dresses.   I'm busty and I'm short, and my breasts are obvious because most people have to look down when they see me.  

Women's breasts are hard for men 'not' to look at.  Even gay men stare at them on women.  They do....    I keep mine under wraps.  I also wear nipple pads so that they don't protrude if I'm wearing a tee shirt or certain blouses.  I'm serious about this.  Men notice our anatomy.  They're men.  

At home, when I'm alone, I'm free, but when in Ministry, business meetings, and the gym,  I don't want to be a distraction.   Especially in Ministry.   I'm not in Church to be cute or to get attention.   I take the word of God literally to 'decrease' so that God may 'increase'.  

Men will admit that they can get very distracted when a woman's body is especially showy.  Especially men who have been celibate for a while.  

Read some the Christian books for men.  It's all in there about their struggles.     This is why women dress to get attention, because they know the more they show, the men will look at them.


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> For those that are a little lost this is what being said. MaryMary has been known to not dress appropriate for their audition (young Christians or unsaved)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing these pictures.   This was the point I was making all along.    CeCe is beautiful, all covered up.   Her style is very similar to mine.


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## PaperClip (Apr 16, 2009)

Browndilocks said:


> Honestly, I didnt think the video was that bad. Where were they dressed inappropriately where their boobs were showing? Missed that. They could have done without some of the celebs in the video and OMG Kiki needs lap band surgery, but I think they were dressed according to the concept of the video. *shrugs*


 
To Kiki's credit, she's lost A LOT of weight since that video was made.


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 16, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Yes we must be quite careful.
> 
> Careful about becoming too 'lax' and letting things slide until it gets out of hand.
> 
> ...


 
I feel u Shimmie, but again, we still have to be careful, thats all I'm saying. I am not making excuses for them, I work very closely with the youth also, I am a mentor, but like i said in the last post, there is a way to do and say everything... but the way some of the comments in this thread IMO sound judgemental, we are to do things in love at all times, im not feeling the love.. lol It's very easy for us to get puffed up regarding one situation that we may not be doing (ex. I'm a liar, u get on me about my lying ways, but u are a cheater. u know what im saying?) but forget the long journey we came from and what we are still doing thats not right, and still working on fixing, but no one see's it cause we are not in the spot light like Mary Mary or any other artist or celebrity. Yes, because they are in the spot light, they may need to look into getting a new stylist but IMO they do make good music that reaches alot of people. Lets pray they look into that. 

-Signed.. nobodys perfect.


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## PaperClip (Apr 16, 2009)

divya said:


> I agree with you that we must strive to be humble and not puffed up. However, I think the ladies here are really just concerned. The devil is attacking because as the Bible says, he knows his time is short. We just want the avenues not only to our minds but to the minds of young people protected. We pray that others see God in all of us, including Mary Mary. So this isn't meant to slander, but just show that we care about the message. Not just the message from our mouths but in our dress too. Lastly, yes...we should pray for them. Absolutely.


 
Young or old is relative, in a sense. In other words, the younger set doesn't have exclusivity to being fresh, cute, lively, fun, etc.

I'm not as bothered by what Mary Mary wear when they are in ENTERTAINING MODE (which is pretty much all the time when I see them on TV, although they might be insulted by my take on their "ministry"). 

CeCe Winans is not in my age bracket, either and she's always been more conservative, most likely because of her upbringing and personal fashion style, etc.

I would venture to say that when Mary Mary are in a more traditional church setting, they dress in a way that is appropriate for that setting. When they are on the concert stage, they dress in a way that they feel is more appropriate for that.

When Mary Mary appeared on President Obama's Stevie Wonder tribute, they were dressed more conservatively (and they did sing their Stevie song very well).

We REALLY NEED to stop majoring in the minors about this dress thing. I know better than to step into church with my cleveage hanging out and my dress five inches above my knees, not (mainly) because of what the church says, but because of what the HOLY GHOST says...and sometimes we need to step aside and let the Holy Ghost do His perfect work directly with/to that person.


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> I feel u Shimmie, but again, we still have to be careful, thats all I'm saying. I am not making excuses for them, I work very closely with the youth also, I am a mentor, but like i said in the last post, there is a way to do and say everything... but the way some of the comments in this thread IMO sound judgemental, we are to do things in love at all times, im not feeling the love.. lol
> 
> It's very easy for us to get puffed up regarding one situation that we may not be doing (ex. I'm a liar, u get on me about my lying ways, but u are a cheater. u know what im saying?) but forget the long journey we came from and what we are still doing thats not right, and still working on fixing, but no one see's it cause we are not in the spot light like Mary Mary or any other artist or celebrity.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bronx and I definitely agree with the 'love', however even God chastises us in love.   I like their music too.  It good to play at picnics, family parties, and getting my housework done in rapid time.    

In the same manner that these young girls emulate the dress code of  Britney Spears and the like in the world,   our Christian girls emulate Mary, Mary in how they dress, thinking that it's okay,  and it's not.  

Mary, Mary, quite contrary.... they've been around long enough to know better.   They're not stupid and neither are we.  They just like dressing that way, if they didn't they wouldn't.   It doesn't take a waste of prayer time to get the revelation of this.   They know!    

In love my mother whipped my butt for getting out of line, and she didn't have to pray first.   We were taught how to behave as ladies and how to behave in Church and as Christians.     

Major, Minor, in love, out of love, in prayer or not, Mary Mary knows exactly what they are doing and they know better.   They're in their flesh.

*Anyway... *

in love,  just For you!    

And I mean it, Mrs. Bronx.      

My only regret is that you're not able to hear me in person about this issue.   I have more heart than judgement about this.  It's goes beyond the video, it's a culmination of issues which have long gone unresolved.   Mary, Mary have been lovingly approached about their dress mode by several loving people in Christ, hence their song, the God in Me as their defense.    

Shimmie is simply no nonsense.


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 16, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Thanks Bronx and I definitely agree with the 'love', however even God chastises us in love. I like their music too. It good to play at picnics, family parties, and getting my housework done in rapid time.
> 
> In the same manner that these young girls emulate the dress code of Britney Spears and the like in the world, our Christian girls emulate Mary, Mary in how they dress, thinking that it's okay, and it's not.
> 
> ...


 

No prayer time is a waste.

Those are very serious words u using there.. "They are in the flesh".. be careful. 

Signed... nobody is perfect!


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## saved06 (Apr 16, 2009)

For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God. And if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who refuse to obey the gospel of God? - 1 Peter 4:17


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 16, 2009)

saved06 said:


> For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God. And if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who refuse to obey the gospel of God? - 1 Peter 4:17


 
I always love to take it back to scripture!  

Lets leave the judging to God...


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 16, 2009)

I think there's a difference between judging and setting a standard. If we dont discuss these things, we wont grow in our faith because no one is being challenged. Judging involves saying they arent a Christian or saying they're going to hell or madness like that. But saying their attire is not becoming of a Christian women isnt a judgment. I am sure they are wonderful ladies and love the Lord very much, however their attire when ministering is questionable.


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## lilmsjanet (Apr 16, 2009)

i loveeee thisssssss song whennn i get homeeeeeeeeeee i get on my kneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss i think im so fresh i think im so clean:blondboob


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 16, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I think there's a difference between judging and setting a standard. If we dont discuss these things, we wont grow in our faith because no one is being challenged. Judging involves saying they arent a Christian or saying they're going to hell or madness like that. But saying their attire is not becoming of a Christian women isnt a judgment. I am sure they are wonderful ladies and love the Lord very much, however their attire when ministering is questionable.


 
Thats all i said as well.. but when someone say "They are in their flesh" as a statement and the song was made to defend how they dress.. is that just an opinion or judging? im not sure...


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> No prayer time is a waste.
> 
> Those are very serious words u using there.. "They are in the flesh".. be careful.
> 
> Signed... nobody is perfect!


Dont' take what I'm saying out of context.   If I truly thought that prayer of any kind was a waste, I wouldn't be a Chrisitian with the strength that I have.    I know prayer and how to use it.    

While you tell me not to judge Mary, Mary, you are yet still, mis- judging me, calling me in the flesh, which I am not.  .   Yet it seems you are defending those who are in the flesh.   

When I say it's a waste, I know exactly what I'm saying here.   There are too many excuses being made with that cop out to taking action, which is why the Church is in the mess it's in today.    There is way too much of 'anything goes' which is why it's only getting worse.    

The attitudes are too lax and the term 'prayer' is often misused.     We can pray all we want, but sooner or later action has to take place.   In the word of God, folks prayed all the time, but there was also action needed and Paul and the others, did indeed take action.    

While we are so busy, hiding and praying and reading scripture all day, the enemy is having a hay day with the Church and all kinds of mess is coming in / out of the Church doors.    Why is that?    Folks won't speak up!    Sure, they're praying, but that's not stopping the ho'ing and the laying and homosexuality and garbage that's being 'accepted'. ... by the Church.  

The word says it plain, 'Wake Up'!   The Church is so busy pacifying folks and letting any and every occur with the cowardly reaction, "I'll just pray on it".     Pray, but put some foot and action into the prayers.   Speak up!    Stop allowing these Christian entertainers to continue to defile our real purpose.   Take a stand and stand up to them.  

I'm tired of watching folks in the limelight living like the devil and the first thing out of their mouth is Jesus!  And yet Jesus is no where to be found in their lifestyles or presentation.   It's ludacrious to sit and pray and then nothing ever changes.  That's just plain foolishness.  And yet our children in the hood, are still hooded and pregnant and hoe'in, and full of STD's, HIV, Aids running rampant, gays demanding Jesus to take it or leave it.  

Foolishness is what it is.  You can't pray everything away.   Even Jesus took action in the Temple with the thieves.  He kicked some judgmental butt and thought nothing of it.   For He was not going to allow them to defile the House of God.  

Folks come to Church dressed like ho town and 'we' give them excuses that it's all they have to wear. NO........ It's all they are buying to wear because 'Christians' like Mary Mary and such say it's okay to dress that way.      Sad... 

I'm looking at the disgrace of Tia  and Timera Mowry (the twins) who raved about Jesus and now one them is on a show sleeping with every Tom, Dick and Harry without remorse and any code of decency.    

Yes!  We pray,  but when does someone speak up and pull her aside and say, this is not what God has called you to do.   Make up any excuses you want for them.   Pray all you want, but action MUST be taken.   

Am I going to allow my child to run out into traffic, and just sit in the house and pray  that he will stop and not do anything about it, because it's judgmental.    No!  I'm going to pull him up and put a stop to it.   

There's good judgment and bad judgment.   The examples set before require a lot more than prayer.   They require being exposed for what it is, so that our little ones don't follow behind their mess.   

Christians have become so weak and fearful and it's a shame.  A sad shame.   It takes backbone to go with prayer.   Otherwise the devil will whip you senseless and run all over top of you.   

You can pray, but I'm doing both praying and doing something about it to safeguard the minds of my children, young family members and students God has entrusted me with.   Wrong is wrong and we are to teach our children the difference.   Those who truly represent God do not dress like that.  

I wish this post was audio.   This is all gently and lovingly and prayerfully spoken.... :Rose:

Blessings....


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> Thats all i said as well.. but when someone say "They are in their flesh" as a statement and the song was made to defend how they dress.. is that just an opinion or judging? im not sure...


No, it's actually the truth.   Mary Mary have been 'gently' counseled about their appearance.   They rebelled.    Not judging.   I know of the situation.    The song was their plight to not change, but they will.


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## saved06 (Apr 16, 2009)

The Word of God is what is judging Folks just don't want to even reference or acknowlegde the Bible anymore.  The Word is the Word... 

*1 Timothy 2:9-10
*I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 16, 2009)

I never said u were of the flesh, I said thats what u said about Mary Mary, and asking the question if that was judging or not. but you have already answered that question for me, because you said that I mis-judged you when you thought I said that YOU were of the flesh. 

We all just need to try to be more like Jesus!  Take self out of the equation and personal feelings you may have.  Being that we dont have access to Mary Mary we just need to pray that God will send someone to advise them. 

I love ur fire and all, thats great we do need to be on fire for the Lord and His ways, but He called us to do it His way, can we just do it like Jesus did it?

Thanks


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 16, 2009)

saved06 said:


> The Word of God is what is judging Folks just don't want to even reference or acknowlegde the Bible anymore.  The Word is the Word...
> 
> *1 Timothy 2:9-10*
> I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.


 
U are very right saved 06. im still talkin about judging.. lol i am not defending anyone or anything. simply saying we shouldn't judge thats all.


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> I never said u were of the flesh, I said thats what u said about Mary Mary, and asking the question if that was judging or not. but you have already answered that question for me, because you said that I mis-judged you when you thought I said that YOU were of the flesh.
> 
> We all just need to try to be more like Jesus! Take self out of the equation and personal feelings you may have. Being that we dont have access to Mary Mary we just need to pray that God will send someone to advise them.
> 
> ...


I understand your gentleness.....  

So when you see my 'fire' it's not aimed at you.    I promise.  

I'm just standing my ground against satan.   Jesus did that too.  He told the woman caught in adultery, 'Go and sin no more.'  (and wear decent clothes )


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## HeChangedMyName (Apr 16, 2009)

hmmm.  I think the point is to show that Christians are people too.  And that we can have fun and live in the World yet not be of the World.  I like that it has celebs in it who you may not have known their religious beliefs before.


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## PaperClip (Apr 16, 2009)

saved06 said:


> For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God. And if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who refuse to obey the gospel of God? - 1 Peter 4:17


 
And exactly who is "us"? Some of we are claiming to be "us" ain't claiming that label or that label is being put on them unjustifiably.


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## PaperClip (Apr 16, 2009)

saved06 said:


> The Word of God is what is judging Folks just don't want to even reference or acknowlegde the Bible anymore.  The Word is the Word...
> 
> *1 Timothy 2:9-10*
> I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.


 
Who decides what's modest?

Who decides what's decent?

More importantly, who decides what's expensive?


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## PaperClip (Apr 16, 2009)

SuperNova said:


> hmmm. I think the point is to show that Christians are people too. And that we can have fun and live in the World yet not be of the World. I like that it has celebs in it who you may not have known their religious beliefs before.


 
And a video is a weak indication of somebody's religious beliefs. In fact, it's an empty indication.

Consider: Pastor Creflo Dollar is in the "Welcome to Atlanta" video w/Ludacris and Jermaine Dupri (go to 1:12). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpKZ1aWB_OE

Does the one image of him standing in front of his church ediface in the midst of profanities, barely-clothed (exploited) women confirm or display or indicate his religious beliefs?


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## CandiceC (Apr 16, 2009)

SuperNova said:


> hmmm.  I think the point is to show that Christians are people too.  And that we can have fun and live in the World yet not be of the World.  I like that it has celebs in it who you may not have known their religious beliefs before.



Yeah. That's the point. We're people too. _And_ when you see us with blessings/favor, it's coming from the Lord.


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## Precious_1 (Apr 16, 2009)

I like the song...I dont like the video, After listening to the words of the song, I kinda pictured this successful woman in business attire,  driving her nice ride, living in a nice home with a good job, while people who were in the world were hating, talking about her and standing around trying to figure out how she got it all together. But what they didn't know was that when she got home, she was on her knees praying. She was giving her money to the things of god, etc. The video was nothing like I imagined it would be.


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## PaperClip (Apr 16, 2009)

Precious_1 said:


> I like the song...I dont like the video, After listening to the words of the song, I kinda pictured this successful woman in business attire, driving her nice ride, living in a nice home with a good job, while people who were in the world were hating, talking about her and standing around trying to figure out how she got it all together. But what they didn't know was that when she got home, she was on her knees praying. She was giving her money to the things of god, etc. The video was nothing like I imagined it would be.


 
Again, another issue/downfall with the music video phenomenon.... the creativity and space to imagine a song is reduced when someone else does it for us....

And yet, in this case: you say the video was nothing like you imagined it (your right and space to imagine it the way you want to) but does this mean the song is any less impactful (in either a positive or negative way)?


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## CandiceC (Apr 16, 2009)

Precious_1 said:


> I like the song...I dont like the video, After listening to the words of the song, I kinda pictured this successful woman in business attire,  driving her nice ride, living in a nice home with a good job, while people who were in the world were hating, talking about her and standing around trying to figure out how she got it all together. But what they didn't know was that when she got home, she was on her knees praying. She was giving her money to the things of god, etc. The video was nothing like I imagined it would be.



^^ I would have liked to see a concept like this too.


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 16, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I understand your gentleness.....
> 
> So when you see my 'fire' it's not aimed at you. I promise.
> 
> I'm just standing my ground against satan. Jesus did that too. He told the woman caught in adultery, 'Go and sin no more.' (and wear decent clothes )


 
Thanks honee! We are all sista's in Christ and have the same goal in mind.. to serve the Lord and be sold out for Him and His works!!  It does cause us to be on fire, different and stand out.  Have a blessed rest of the day! Friday is round' the corner!


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## Browndilocks (Apr 16, 2009)

Glib Gurl said:


> Re: the video - Uh, what that got to do with Jesus?
> 
> I am actually very disappointed because I *love* this song and *I thought the video would be feature a character going through life with all of the material trappings but then showing how they also pray, give charitably, attend church, etc.* THAT, to me, is the heart of the song - that the blessing come from the Lord.  The fashion show concept is just played out to me, period.
> 
> ...



Yeah.  That's what I thought it would be too.  It's what I envisioned when I first heard the song,  but that clearly isnt what the video shows.  I'll give yall that.


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> *Thanks honee! We are all sista's in Christ and have the same goal in mind*.. *to serve the Lord and be sold out for Him and His works!! * *It does cause us to be on fire, different and stand out.  *
> 
> *Have a blessed rest of the day! Friday is round' the corner!*


 
I just bolded your entire post.      Indeed we are sista's, I used to live in the Bronx.  

You have a blessed day too, dear one, and a very happy Friday and each day thereafter ...


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> And a video is a weak indication of somebody's religious beliefs. In fact, it's an empty indication.
> 
> Consider: Pastor Creflo Dollar is in the "Welcome to Atlanta" video w/Ludacris and Jermaine Dupri (go to 1:12). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpKZ1aWB_OE
> 
> Does the one image of him standing in front of his church ediface in the midst of profanities, barely-clothed (exploited) women confirm or display or indicate his religious beliefs?


Can someone explain this video meaning to me?   Please?  

Thanks in advance.    I don't understand the purpose of Pastor Creflo being in it.    Thanks again, everyone.   

Not hatin'      :Rose:


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## kinkicurlyfyne (Apr 16, 2009)

When I first heard the CD I thought the same thing. They are obviously trying to reel in people who would normally not listen to gospel. The majority of the songs on that CD are not their style, IMO.


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## PaperClip (Apr 16, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Can someone explain this video meaning to me? Please?
> 
> Thanks in advance. I don't understand the purpose of Pastor Creflo being in it. Thanks again, everyone.
> 
> Not hatin'  :Rose:


 
Here's a start with the lyrics:

http://www.lyrics007.com/Ludacris Lyrics/Welcome To Atlanta Lyrics.html

[Ludacris]
Yeah, Welcome to Atlanta, jack and hammer and vogues'
Back to the mackin' and jackin' the clothes, adolescent packin a fo'
A knock on the do', who is it?
I would happen to know, the one with the flow
Who did it?, it was me I suppose
J-D in the Rollz and Luda's in the Cutt Supreme
Skatin down old Nat, Gat tooked and lean
I split ya spleen, as matter' fact I split ya team
No blood on the sneak's, gotta keep it so my kicks is clean
I get the cream, cops see me flick my beams
Im allergic to 'doc perscribed anti-histemines
Oink Oink, Pig Pig, do away with the pork
Only siguar needs a steak knife and a fork
Did you forget your ****in manners, Im loose with banners
Ludacris, Johnny Rockets when i shoot the cannon
The Wooley mammoth saber-tooth, ***** bite your tounge
I wont stop until Im rich as them white-boy come
I pull up in the black Lotus, you're plaque's are bogus
So I stripped them off the wall
Waiting for my cue to corner pocket eight balls
You rackin' 'em up, Im big paper like pancakes, stackin' 'em up
In fact Im slappin' 'em up, Cadallacin' the truck
I cant loose with 22"s, ***** thats whats up
Runnin in the back the ****, runnin better than aquaduct
chil-li-li-li-li-n.. what

[Chorus]
[JD]
Yo, Yo.. Yo..Yo, Yo,
Welcome to Atlanta where the playas play
And we ride on them things like every day
Big beats, hit streets, see gangsta's roamin'
And parties dont stop til' eight in the mornin'

[Ludacris]
Welcome to Atlanta where the playas play
And we ride on them things like every day
Big beats, hit streets, see gangsta's roamin'
And parties dont stop til' eight in the mornin'

[JD]
Now the party dont start 'til I walk in
And I usually dont leave until the thing ends
But in the mean-time, in between time
You work yo thing, I'll work mine
I been puttin' it down here since 83'
Since the late show MD rivalry
More froze than bad ice, with a place to be
If you was ridin, you was ballin to homie Shadi
Im the MBP, Most Ballernous Player
Make my own rules, ***** call me the mayor
Monday night, Gentlemen's Club
Tuesday night, Im up in the velvet room, gettin ****ed up
Wednesday, Im at strokers on lean
Thursday, jump clean, and I fall up in cream
Friday, shark bar kyack with Frank Skeem, right on the floor is where you can find me
Saturday, is off the heezy fo' sheezy, you can find me up in one-tweezy
Sunday, is when i get my sleepin' 
Cause on Monday we be at it again, Holla!


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## PaperClip (Apr 16, 2009)

kinkicurlyfyne said:


> When I first heard the CD I thought the same thing. They are obviously trying to reel in people who would normally not listen to gospel. The majority of the songs on that CD are not their style, IMO.


 
Sooo... what is their style? And how are we supposed to know their style? I thought it would be by listening to their music.

I really liked their first CD. But it seems that they've deviated from the style of that first CD into more...how shall I say.... stretching the boundaries of a "gospel" sound... and not necessarily in a good way.


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 16, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I just bolded your entire post.  Indeed we are sista's, I used to live in the Bronx.
> 
> You have a blessed day too, dear one, and a very happy Friday and each day thereafter ...


 
Aww THANKS!!!  

did u really?? wow! round' what parts?


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Sooo... what is their style? And how are we supposed to know their style? I thought it would be by listening to their music.
> 
> I really liked their first CD. But it seems that they've deviated from the style of that first CD into more...how shall I say.... stretching the boundaries of a "gospel" sound... and not necessarily in a good way.


My family and I fell in love with 'Shackles".    

Wasn't this out about the same time as Kirk Franklin's 'GP' (God's People)?     It was a 'new wave' of Gospel music and it took on like wild fire.   

I also like Mary Mary's,  "Trevor's Birthday".    Catchy rhythm for family parties along with the Winans, Take 6, Commissioned, Men of Standard, Winans 2 (the sons), Helen Baylor, CeCe Winans, and others.  

Here's the thing,  I have never seen Mary Mary's  videos.  Only their TV appearances.  

The video in this thread was the first I've seen of theirs.  In the other thread, I couldn't view the entire video because my signal was slow.    

Had I heard their song (only) and not seen the video, I probably wouldn't be in this thread....   No doubt.


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> Aww THANKS!!!
> 
> did u really?? wow! round' what parts?


It was a while back.  I was born in Harlem (121 st Street); moved to the Bronx near the 3rd Avenue 'L'.   My parents moved back to Maryland and I lived in the Bronx every summer, holiday and most weekends with my grandparents.   New York is in my Bloodline....  

You're blood kin to me...


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## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 16, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> It was a while back. I was born in Harlem (121 st Street); moved to the Bronx near the 3rd Avenue 'L'. My parents moved back to Maryland and I lived in the Bronx every summer, holiday and most weekends with my grandparents. New York is in my Bloodline....
> 
> You're blood kin to me...


 
Oh okay!!! cool!  I'm from the soundview area.  went to hs in harlem tho. around Adam clayton and 145th. I was just tellin my hubby how 3rd ave used to have the carnival there every year! lol (not sure if u was there then)


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Here's a start with the lyrics:
> 
> http://www.lyrics007.com/Ludacris Lyrics/Welcome To Atlanta Lyrics.html
> 
> ...


 
  

I gave up after Welcome to Atlanta.   Tried again, lost on the oink, oink, pig, pig.....

Thanks for trying Foxy.... 

I have never been able to disect a rap song....


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## Shimmie (Apr 16, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> Oh okay!!! cool!  I'm from the soundview area. went to hs in harlem tho. around Adam clayton and 145th. I was just tellin my hubby how 3rd ave used to have the carnival there every year! lol (not sure if u was there then)


I remember carnivals on 3rd Avenue....    It's been a long while, though.    Most of my mom's family lived in Manhattan on Convent Avenue.   My aunt lived on Colgate Avenue in the Bronx; across from her building was an eletric plant of some type.   She worked in the main library on 5th Avenue across from Saks.   (Memories ) 

I remember 'Con Edison' being the gas and electric company that our power source came from   In other words, the electric bill lol.

Most of my family there have passed away; my mom's brother is 95 years old; he and his wife still live in Manhattan.    Most of my life there was spent in the Arts, the operas, concerts, music/dancing.  AND Nathans... love me some Nathans' hot dogs and orange juice.   

Now I'm more into visiting the fabric vendors (the vendors near 5th and Broadway area).  The fabrics and multi stores in a row.   We're planning a potential visit there this summer (depends on work and budget  ).  

Thanks for putting up with me.  You DO have a loving heart.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 16, 2009)

I havent read through this thread but I saw Ludacris lyrics and now I am afraid...


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## Precious_1 (Apr 16, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Again, another issue/downfall with the music video phenomenon.... the creativity and space to imagine a song is reduced when someone else does it for us....
> 
> And yet, in this case: you say the video was nothing like you imagined it (your right and space to imagine it the way you want to) *but does this mean the song is any less impactful (in either a positive or negative way*)?


 
To answer your question No, in my reply I said nothing about how the song impacts on a negative or positive level, in my reply I was simply stating that the song basically had a message, and I was expecting it to be brought to life by the video, but the video had no correlation to the song or its message *in my opinion*.


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## RavenMaven (Apr 16, 2009)

Dude can someone direct to me when it was not Christian to go to the club? Dag...
It's all about "The GOD In Me" meaning okay I can go to the club but I am not going to get pissy drunk and sloppy screaming obscenities to everyone. And I can still go to the club and dance around, but I'm not taking the dude next to me home...
People need to stop getting their panties so daggon bunched up. You can still go to the club, just don't act a fool. GOD wants us to have a good time... like Mary Mary is saying, it's about the GOD in us.
My opinion.


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## divya (Apr 16, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Young or old is relative, in a sense. In other words, the younger set doesn't have exclusivity to being fresh, cute, lively, fun, etc.
> 
> I'm not as bothered by what Mary Mary wear when they are in ENTERTAINING MODE (which is pretty much all the time when I see them on TV, although they might be insulted by my take on their "ministry").
> 
> ...



At the same time, it is important for all of us as Christians to remember who we are representing in everything we do. It's a challenge, but we have to face that challenge. And with Christ, all things are possible.


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Apr 16, 2009)

RavenMaven said:


> Dude can someone direct to me when it was not Christian to go to the club? Dag...
> It's all about "The GOD In Me" meaning okay I can go to the club but I am not going to get pissy drunk and sloppy screaming obscenities to everyone. And I can still go to the club and dance around, but I'm not taking the dude next to me home...
> People need to stop getting their panties so daggon bunched up. You can still go to the club, just don't act a fool. GOD wants us to have a good time... like Mary Mary is saying, it's about the GOD in us.
> My opinion.


----------



## Samory07 (Apr 16, 2009)

meka said:


> Maybe Im missing it but I dont see where they were "overexposed". If you don't like the beat...then don't listen. I love Mary Mary and their music doesn't make me wanna drop it like its hot. It's about the lyrics. If people can't keep their minds stayed on Christ and listen to the message of the song, then who is at fault? Everybody is not going to like everything. It's all about whether God is pleased with it. And since none of us are God, then......it's just our opinion.


 
I think that many of the previous poster's, me included, point was not that the beat or the lyrics were inappropriate but that the content of the video was.


----------



## meka (Apr 16, 2009)

Samory07 said:


> I think that many of the previous poster's, me included, point was not that the beat or the lyrics were inappropriate but that the content of the video was.


 

The content meaning they way they dressed? And the people they had in it right?

But Jesus sat with sinners, correct? His disciples were some messed up folk but he still used them correct?

Ive already stated my opinion on how they were dressed, so no need to restate it. LOL


----------



## Samory07 (Apr 17, 2009)

meka said:


> The content meaning they way they dressed? And the people they had in it right?
> 
> But Jesus sat with sinners, correct? His disciples were some messed up folk but he still used them correct?
> 
> Ive already stated my opinion on how they were dressed, so no need to restate it. LOL


 
Yes Jesus did do those things but there is a difference. Tn the bible it says that Jesus told the disciples to "follow Him" now someone please correct me if I'm wrong but when you begin to follow Jesus even in those days, you left your old ways and became a new creature in Christ, He even went as far as to change some of their names. And He did use them to perform miracles and things of that nature but the key point is that though they were not perfect, they left they were saved and lived a life that was pleasing to God, (or else he wouldn't of had them as his disciples lol) And when Jesus dined with the tax collectors he did so because He wanted to show them the love that the high priests thought they were "too good" to show. This to me is not what MaryMary are doing, if anything this video is distraction from where God wants us to go. 

Jesus did not portray himself the way Mary Mary does, everything he said he lived. If this was Jesus song you would of had no question about how it relates to the song lyrics, because Jesus always keeps it real, there would be no explanation needed. lol. This is just my humble opinion and I;m not in any way judgeing your way of thinking.


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 17, 2009)

divya said:


> At the same time, it is important for all of us as Christians to remember who we are representing in everything we do. It's a challenge, but we have to face that challenge. And with Christ, all things are possible.


 
Operative word being "we", not "we" collectively, but "we" individually:

Philippians 2:12: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, *work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."*

WE ALL have to answer to the Lord INDIVIDUALLY for what we say, do, and wear. I don't have to answer to the Lord for what Mary Mary wears. But I do have to answer to what I wore... although, I'm thinking the Lord is probably going to be more concerned about whether or not I fulfilled my calling on Planet Earth as He ordained for me to do.

Does that mean that I should be mindful that my conduct does not lead someone astray? Yes. But at the same time, I believe the Lord would not have us IMPRISONED by someone else's weakness/lack of self-control. Men have been known to be turned on by an elbow. Does that mean I shouldn't wear short-sleeve shirts?

And yes, this is coming from someone who grew up in a denomination that forbid short-sleeve shirts.


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 17, 2009)

Precious_1 said:


> To answer your question No, in my reply I said nothing about how the song impacts on a negative or positive level, in my reply I was simply stating that the song basically had a message, and I was expecting it to be brought to life by the video, but the video had no correlation to the song or its message *in my opinion*.


 
Your expectation. Your opinion. So noted. 

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and reiterate my point:

My point was that an unintended consequence of the music video movement is that it has tainted, if you will, one's imagination of a song.

Ergo my question: because YOUR particular vision of the song was not seen, in your opinion, does that mean that the video did not fulfill its intended purpose? Apparently to you it did not. But it may have to others, as indicated in this thread.


----------



## msa (Apr 17, 2009)

RavenMaven said:


> Dude can someone direct to me when it was not Christian to go to the club? Dag...
> It's all about "The GOD In Me" meaning okay I can go to the club but I am not going to get pissy drunk and sloppy screaming obscenities to everyone. And I can still go to the club and dance around, but I'm not taking the dude next to me home...
> People need to stop getting their panties so daggon bunched up. You can still go to the club, just don't act a fool. GOD wants us to have a good time... like Mary Mary is saying, it's about the GOD in us.
> My opinion.




Wait wait wait.

We can go to the club?!??! For real for real?!?!?

I can go to the club, dance, dutty wine, grind, have a couple drinks, listen to music with profanity and unsavory lyrics, and have dudes try to be on me...and that's all ok as long as I don't get pissy drunk, scream obscenities, and take a dude home when I leave?

I'm going out with my friends tomorrow night. Praise the Lord, I'm gonna have me some fun!


----------



## divya (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Operative word being "we", not "we" collectively, but "we" individually:
> 
> Philippians 2:12: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, *work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."*
> 
> ...



Yes, that was my point - we as individuals. Not sure what exactly you are getting at here...


----------



## Zeal (Apr 17, 2009)

Ramya said:


> What on earth do they have on? It's just not age appropriate but anyway... I don't like the video or the song so... It is geared toward *bipolar Christians*-one foot in and one foot out at the club.


 

LOL  Bi-polar?  I liked the song from the first time I heard.  When The cd first came out in OCt I purchased it.  I used to play iy at work and say it was my theme song.

HOWEVER..... I feel as htough this video has nothing to do whatsoever with the song.  Why couldn't they have them nicely dressed, (not sayin that they were not) driving a nice whip, and people looking at them in admiration.

Then show their personal life. Them helping the homeless, at home after work praying hard, Their bills piling up and then someone helping them, then pan into a chirch seen with them tithing.

That's the way I would have did.  IMHO.


----------



## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 17, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I remember carnivals on 3rd Avenue....  It's been a long while, though. Most of my mom's family lived in Manhattan on Convent Avenue. My aunt lived on Colgate Avenue in the Bronx; across from her building was an eletric plant of some type. She worked in the main library on 5th Avenue across from Saks. (Memories )
> 
> I remember 'Con Edison' being the gas and electric company that our power source came from In other words, the electric bill lol.
> 
> ...


 
Oh okay! so u do remember the carnivals.. i wonder if they still do em. very familiar with colgate and the #5 bus.. lol yes coned was the electric company of choice. LOL Girl love me some nathans!!! they have great grilled burgers too! (umm  umm!! ) lol


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Apr 17, 2009)

RavenMaven said:


> Dude can someone direct to me when it was not Christian to go to the club? Dag...
> It's all about "The GOD In Me" meaning okay I can go to the club but I am not going to get pissy drunk and sloppy screaming obscenities to everyone. And I can still go to the club and dance around, but I'm not taking the dude next to me home...
> People need to stop getting their panties so daggon bunched up. *You can still go to the club, just don't act a fool. GOD wants us to have a good time... like Mary Mary is saying, it's about the GOD in us.*
> My opinion.


Really?


----------



## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 17, 2009)

msa said:


> Wait wait wait.
> 
> We can go to the club?!??! For real for real?!?!?
> 
> ...


 
Raven may not be "there" yet, and that is perfectly okay, there was a time when going to the club might have been okay for u.. i know there SURELY was a time when it was GREAT for me. Clubbin and drinking, etc. But it took time for me to realize that thats is not where its at. That we are to stand out and be different. And to delight in the Lord and not the things of this world. u know? God had to work on me... and that conviction.. boy oh boy!!  It makes you want to change, repent and do better. it takes time tho.  I thank God for showing me (and you) and he will show Raven at the right time also  And she will have an awesome testimony to share with someone else too.  It comes with growth thats all.


----------



## blazingthru (Apr 17, 2009)

Mrs.TheBronx said:


> Raven may not be "there" yet, and that is perfectly okay, there was a time when going to the club might have been okay for u.. i know there SURELY was a time when it was GREAT for me. Clubbin and drinking, etc. But it took time for me to realize that thats is not where its at. That we are to stand out and be different. And to delight in the Lord and not the things of this world. u know? God had to work on me... and that conviction.. boy oh boy!! It makes you want to change, repent and do better. it takes time tho.  I thank God for showing me (and you) and he will show Raven at the right time also  And she will have an awesome testimony to share with someone else too. It comes with growth thats all.


 
 I would have agree with you on the it takes time had you asked me this a few months ago but now since I been studying. I read some scriptures. Okay well this is the question.  When I discover new truth, I wait until all obstacles are removed before embracing it.  This is best, isn't it.
*Walk while you have the light,lest darkness overtake you (John 12:35) I made haste, and did not delay to keep Your commandments (Psalm 119:60) Seek first the Kindom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you(Matthew 6:33) As soon as they hear of me they obey me (Psalm 18:44)*
No, once your clear on a Bible Truth, it is never best to wait. In fact, procrastination is the devils most dangerous trap.  It seems so harmless to wait, but the Bible teaches that unless a person acts immediately upon light, it quickly turns to darkness.  Obstacles to obedience are not removed while we stand and wait, instead, they usually increase in size.  man says to God" Open the way, and I'll go forward. But God's way is the opposite. He says You go forward, and I will open up the way.


----------



## saved06 (Apr 17, 2009)

This was emailed to me below NWS:

http://www.mediatakeout.com/2009/32...icit_pics_together__well_heres_one_of_em.html


Any Mary Mary had them in the video why? NWS (Not work safe)


----------



## Mrs.TheBronx (Apr 17, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I would have agree with you on the it takes time had you asked me this a few months ago but now since I been studying. I read some scriptures. Okay well this is the question. When I discover new truth, I wait until all obstacles are removed before embracing it. This is best, isn't it.
> *Walk while you have the light,lest darkness overtake you (John 12:35) I made haste, and did not delay to keep Your commandments (Psalm 119:60) Seek first the Kindom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you(Matthew 6:33) As soon as they hear of me they obey me (Psalm 18:44)*
> No, once your clear on a Bible Truth, it is never best to wait. In fact, procrastination is the devils most dangerous trap. It seems so harmless to wait, but the Bible teaches that unless a person acts immediately upon light, it quickly turns to darkness. Obstacles to obedience are not removed while we stand and wait, instead, they usually increase in size. man says to God" Open the way, and I'll go forward. But God's way is the opposite. He says You go forward, and I will open up the way.


 
I agree 100% in the perfect world that would be wonderful, but since we dont live there, it takes time for most people (including myself) to get it. God is patient and loving too. Jesus was here and knows how it is. Thats why we have to Thank Him everyday for His grace and Mercy on us! And ask everyday for the strength to do better and really not just say it but really mean it and show Him with actions the love that we have for Him.


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 17, 2009)

divya said:


> At the same time, it is important for all of us as Christians to remember who we are representing in everything we do. It's a challenge, but we have to face that challenge. And with Christ, all things are possible.


 


divya said:


> Yes, that was my point - we as individuals. Not sure what exactly you are getting at here...


 
My point is that when such conversations occur about what dress is righteous, what music is righteous, what look is righteous, the go-to response is to make this collective statement that "we" have to "represent".

What I am saying is that 1) who are "we" and 2) who's asking to be part of this "we" and 3) if it walks like a Jesus-disciplin' Christian, talks like a Jesus-disciplin' Christian, and quacks like a Jesus-disciplin' Christian, well, who can really do all of that?

I REFUSE to let UNTRIED BY FIRE, UNPROVEN FOLK tell me what is righteous. That's WHO the Holy Spirit is for....

So really the BEST things WE (collectively) can do is PRAY for these folk (if we are so inclined) and GUARD our hearts and minds against those things that are not edifying... even if it is from self-professed Christian ENTERTAINERS.

GENERAL STATEMENT: Just like the song says: if you're going to worry, why pray? Substitute worry with criticize.


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Apr 17, 2009)

:littleang:But what about the children


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> :littleang:But what about the children


 
@


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> My point is that when such conversations occur about what dress is righteous, what music is righteous, what look is righteous, the go-to response is to make this collective statement that "we" have to "represent".
> 
> What I am saying is that 1) who are "we" and 2) who's asking to be part of this "we" and 3) if it walks like a Jesus-disciplin' Christian, talks like a Jesus-disciplin' Christian, and quacks like a Jesus-disciplin' Christian, well, who can really do all of that?
> 
> ...


 

I'm  laughing because _we're_ all going in the same circle   Round and Round we go. 

Cause while some are critcizing the horrible dressing of Mary Mary (me -- #1 -- I admit it and didn't quit it ),  the others are criticizing those who critizize Mary Mary.........


*WHAT's the Difference?  *

We're ALL criticizing up in here.      

"We're" Funny!      and  cute and loved


----------



## Browndilocks (Apr 17, 2009)

^^^^^^^


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

Browndilocks said:


> ^^^^^^^




Stop criticizing me Browndilocks....


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 17, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm laughing because _we're_ all going in the same circle   Round and Round we go.
> 
> Cause while some are critcizing the horrible dressing of Mary Mary (me -- #1 -- I admit it and didn't quit it ), the others are criticizing those who critizize Mary Mary.........
> 
> ...


 
I "see" you, Shimmie!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I'm just saying be logical and consistent with the criticism!


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I "see" you, Shimmie!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 












They still need to get their act together.


----------



## Browndilocks (Apr 17, 2009)

^^^^^^  

I'm sowwwwwy Shimmie.


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 17, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> They still need to get their act together.


 

Bwhahaahahahaahahaha!!!!!


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

Browndilocks said:


> ^^^^^^
> 
> I'm sowwwwwy Shimmie.


 


Err' body knows that I was the Main One trippin' up here in this thread.  

For you, angel


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Bwhahaahahahaahahaha!!!!!


 


See, you 'called me out' in this thread  ....  

I still love you to pieces and you're still my baby sis.  



Note how I used lower caps and one nod.....


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 17, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> See, you 'called me out' in this thread ....
> 
> I still love you to pieces and you're still my baby sis.
> 
> ...


 
Shimmie!!! I am still your BABY SIS!!! (All CAPS!!!! and can't nothin' change that!)


----------



## divya (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> My point is that when such conversations occur about what dress is righteous, what music is righteous, what look is righteous, the go-to response is to make this collective statement that "we" have to "represent".
> 
> What I am saying is that 1) who are "we" and 2) who's asking to be part of this "we" and 3) if it walks like a Jesus-disciplin' Christian, talks like a Jesus-disciplin' Christian, and quacks like a Jesus-disciplin' Christian, well, who can really do all of that?
> 
> ...



Maybe we view the thread differently. A number of us in here have spoken about pray for them and ourselves in general. I was simply expressing that each and every one of us must be mindful who were are representing in _everything we do_. Is that not a Biblical principle that is not limited to dress, music or whatever else? Every one has challenges to face so untried by fire and unproven people would only be something that another person assumes. Christ is the one who can help us achieve the standards that He has for us. 

What song said if you are going to worry, why pray? To me, that makes no sense. When we worry, we should pray that God strengthen us and help us to trust Him more. But basically, the thread asked if the song was too worldly and others have commented on the video etc, regarding how the group is dressed. Personally, I didn't see this thread is criticism but general concern.

Anyway, I still like some of their songs. Haven't heard all though...


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Shimmie!!! I am still your BABY SIS!!! (All CAPS!!!! and can't nothin' change that!)


 
   

*  :Rose:  Baby Sis  :Rose:* 

You still my girl!   I can stand a little correction....just don't use wite-out on me; it stains ....


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 17, 2009)

divya said:


> A number of us in here have spoken about pray for them and ourselves in general. I was simply expressing that each and every one of us must be mindful who were are representing in _everything we do_. Is that not a Biblical principle that is not limited to dress, music or whatever else? Every one has challenges to face so untried by fire and unproven people would only be something that another person assumes. Christ is the one who can help us achieve the standards that He has for us.
> 
> What song said if you are going to worry, why pray? To me, that makes no sense. When we worry, we should pray that God strengthen us and help us to trust Him more. But basically, the thread asked if the song was too worldly and others have commented on the video etc, regarding how the group is dressed. Personally, I didn't see this thread is criticism but general concern.


 
Trial by fire exists beyond assumption. It is reflected in the pearls of wisdom from one's lips and more importantly, the UNDENIABLE AUTHORITY by which one speaks. There's an establishing of order in the wisdom that has been spoken. There's a balance. 

The criticism is thinly veiled as general concern. We're almost there in this thread but not quite.


http://www.lyricsmania.com/lyrics/j..._40148/dont_pray_and_worry_lyrics_435276.html
*Lyrics to Don’t Pray & Worry* :
[J moss laughing] Whew, come on let's keep it going

He knows all that's before you 
He will never neglect His child 
Nor will ignore tears in your eyes 
Lay your cares to rest

[Chorus:]
The righteous won't be forsaken 
Just hold to your faith 
And His word will be manifested 
Be steadfast and don't fear 
Don't pray and worry

Why is it that we will spend time 
going to church but don't understand why 
Why we must pray 
And then belive 
Things we pray for will soon be recived

The prayers of the righteous availeth much 
Be not weary in well doing 
God of Heaven can do anything 
Lay your cares to rest 
For the righteous

[Chorus]

He who holds the future 
Also rules this land 
And responsible for each breath we take 
Just pray and then leave it there 
Pray and then leave it there

Maybe you've lost all hope 
And can't see past tomorrow 
Speak His word into your life 
And stand on His promise to you

[Chorus x2]
[ Don’t Pray & Worry Lyrics on http://www.lyricsmania.com/ ] 


The song is by J Moss. The principle of the song is simply not to do BOTH (pray and worry) because then those prayers are without faith. The worry cancels out the faith.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

divya said:


> Maybe we view the thread differently. A number of us in here have spoken about pray for them and ourselves in general. I was simply expressing that each and every one of us must be mindful who were are representing in _everything we do_. Is that not a Biblical principle that is not limited to dress, music or whatever else? Every one has challenges to face so untried by fire and unproven people would only be something that another person assumes. Christ is the one who can help us achieve the standards that He has for us.
> 
> What song said if you are going to worry, why pray? To me, that makes no sense. When we worry, we should pray that God strengthen us and help us to trust Him more. But basically, the thread asked if the song was too worldly and others have commented on the video etc, regarding how the group is dressed. Personally, I didn't see this thread is criticism but general concern.
> 
> Anyway, I still like some of their songs. Haven't heard all though...


 
This is true about representing, 'We are walking Epistles'...


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Trial by fire exists beyond assumption. It is reflected in the pearls of wisdom from one's lips and more importantly, the UNDENIABLE AUTHORITY by which one speaks. There's an establishing of order in the wisdom that has been spoken. There's a balance.
> 
> The criticism is thinly veiled as general concern. We're almost there in this thread but not quite.
> 
> ...


Indeed worry does interfere with faith....  

1000% of folks have done so.


----------



## divya (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Trial by fire exists beyond assumption. It is reflected in the pearls of wisdom from one's lips and more importantly, the UNDENIABLE AUTHORITY by which one speaks. There's an establishing of order in the wisdom that has been spoken. There's a balance. We're almost there in this thread but not quite.
> 
> The song is by J Moss. The principle of the song is simply not to do BOTH (pray and worry) because then those prayers are without faith. The worry cancels out the faith.



Right so since trial by fire exists beyond assumption then why "REFUSE to let UNTRIED BY FIRE, UNPROVEN FOLK tell me what is righteous"? Who are the people who are untried by fire or unproven people?  How would anyone know what the next person has come through by the grace of God? Did someone try to you or any one else what is righteous? Just asking because maybe I missed something in the thread...

Did someone say they were worried? Because concern can simply mean that a person cares. Overall, the thread seemed balanced but that's just me...


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 17, 2009)

divya said:


> Right so since trial by fire exists beyond assumption then why "REFUSE to let UNTRIED BY FIRE, UNPROVEN FOLK tell me what is righteous"? Who are the people who are untried by fire or unproven people? How would anyone know what the next person has come through by the grace of God? Did someone try to you or any one else what is righteous? Just asking because maybe I missed something in the thread...
> 
> Did someone say they were worried? Because concern can simply mean that a person cares. Overall, the thread seemed balanced but that's just me...


 
It's in the inconsistency of equating salvation w/clothing choices.

It's in the inconsistency of equating salvation w/song choices.

It's in the inconsistency of equating salvation w/an appearance in a music video.

It's in the inconsistency of expecting a so-called gospel singer to be the beacon of heavenly light for all mankind...instead of the Lord Jesus Christ.


----------



## hurricane (Apr 17, 2009)

*1 Timothy 2: 9*

*in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,*

*but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.*

*May the Holy Spirit convict those who read this scripture.*


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Apr 17, 2009)

I didnt know we were talking about their salvation...


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I didnt know we were talking about their salvation...


 
For kicks:

the term "Saved", when searched in this thread, was referenced 12 times.

the term "salvation", when searched in this thread, was referenced 8 times.

Now to whose salvation was being referenced, I would speculate that it was a universal application.


----------



## mellowmel (Apr 17, 2009)

RavenMaven said:


> Dude can someone direct to me when it was not Christian to go to the club? Dag...
> It's all about "The GOD In Me" meaning okay I can go to the club but I am not going to get pissy drunk and sloppy screaming obscenities to everyone. And I can still go to the club and dance around, but I'm not taking the dude next to me home...
> People need to stop getting their panties so daggon bunched up. You can still go to the club, just don't act a fool. GOD wants us to have a good time... like Mary Mary is saying, it's about the GOD in us.
> My opinion.




Say what now?!! So it would be alright for me to go to a strip club too then? Oh yeah, don't forget that we can bring our pastors and the elders of the church to the club with us too! As long as they don't get drunk! Might as well bring my 2 year old too. My mama always told me if she couldn't take her kids to a place with her, then something aint quite right about it. I say if I can't take my daughter, grandmother, or members of my church then "something aint quite right" about it! God is everywhere but he don't want you up in that club, that aint nothing but temptation!!


----------



## divya (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> It's in the inconsistency of equating salvation w/clothing choices.
> 
> It's in the inconsistency of equating salvation w/song choices.
> 
> ...



But where did anyone do that?


----------



## MA2010 (Apr 17, 2009)

msa said:


> Wait wait wait.
> 
> We can go to the club?!??! For real for real?!?!?
> 
> ...


 
You made me laugh hard...........




Mrs.TheBronx said:


> Raven may not be "there" yet, and that is perfectly okay, there was a time when going to the club might have been okay for u.. i know there SURELY was a time when it was GREAT for me. Clubbin and drinking, etc. But it took time for me to realize that thats is not where its at. That we are to stand out and be different. And to delight in the Lord and not the things of this world. u know? God had to work on me... and that conviction.. boy oh boy!! It makes you want to change, repent and do better. it takes time tho.  I thank God for showing me (and you) and he will show Raven at the right time also  And she will have an awesome testimony to share with someone else too. It comes with growth thats all.


 
_Good way to put it. Lord, please forgive me now because I was not going to reply as nice and "with the fruits of the spirit" like you did Mrs.TheBronx. erplexed_




Shimmie said:


> They still need to get their act together.


 






mellowmel said:


> Say what now?!! So it would be alright for me to go to a strip club too then? Oh yeah, don't forget that we can bring our pastors and the elders of the church to the club with us too! As long as they don't get drunk! Might as well bring my 2 year old too. My mama always told me if she couldn't take her kids to a place with her, then something aint quite right about it. I say if I can't take my daughter, grandmother, or members of my church then "something aint quite right" about it! God is everywhere but he don't want you up in that club, that aint nothing but temptation!!


 
I think your mama was right!


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

RavenMaven said:


> Dude can someone direct to me when it was not Christian to go to the club? Dag...
> It's all about "The GOD In Me" meaning okay I can go to the club but I am not going to get pissy drunk and sloppy screaming obscenities to everyone. And I can still go to the club and dance around, but I'm not taking the dude next to me home...
> 
> People need to stop getting their panties so daggon bunched up.
> ...


 
But why?  Why go to an environment where 'danger' lurks.  Not just for your physical safety, but for what you have chosen to embrace your spirit.    

There are all kinds of gods and satan is *the* *'Master'* ........ of deception and imitation.   It's not enough for us to go to Church, confess Jesus as Lord, and still cling to satan's enviroment which has no life.  

The atmosphere of the 'Club' environment has absolutely ---- no life, no life of the Holy Spirit and whom the Spirit of God represents.  No one there is encouraging the Way, The Truth and The Life who is the Lord Jesus Christ.   

Come out, from among them. 

It's not where God wants you to have fun. It's not a place where He can fully protect you.    There are so many other ways to enjoy life and be in the perfect will and place of God.

Come out, from among them.  

satan is setting you up like a set of Dominos and with one blow, to knock you down.  It's tearing down your witness with the crowds there.  It's blocking God's conviction from entering into your heart. 

Come out from among them.

This is what the danger is with Gospel Entertainers who immulate the world.  It keeps precious souls such as yours caught in the world, as a snare.  

Come out from among them.  

God is not in this.  You know He's not.  :Rose:


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## meka (Apr 17, 2009)

mellowmel said:


> Say what now?!! So it would be alright for me to go to a strip club too then? Oh yeah, don't forget that we can bring our pastors and the elders of the church to the club with us too! As long as they don't get drunk! Might as well bring my 2 year old too. My mama always told me if she couldn't take her kids to a place with her, then something aint quite right about it. I say if I can't take my daughter, grandmother, or members of my church then "something aint quite right" about it! God is everywhere but he don't want you up in that club, that aint nothing but temptation!!


 

She may be a babe in Christ. We are to love her, not poke fun at her. 

Everyone has their opinions on certain subjects. Shoot some Christians think its ok to bring the strip club to the bedroom.....but....some of us still have to "grow"


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## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I didnt know we were talking about their salvation...


 
Thanks Prettyface... I didn't think so either.    Yours, mine and several others' focus is on their (Mary Mary's) witness; which is a mess by the way they dress.   It's speaking to those who want to stay in the world, for whatever reason(s), giving them justification to dress/act/think the same... no change. 

Even unsaved folks, know the difference in decent apparel and respectful appearance and put it into good practice.


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## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

meka said:


> *She may be a babe in Christ. We are to love her, not poke fun at her. *
> 
> Everyone has their opinions on certain subjects. Shoot some Christians think its ok to bring the strip club to the bedroom.....but....some of us still have to "grow"


 
I agree and I apologize if my post appears to make fun of her.  I'm not.  I'll send her a PM to apologize.   

Okay.....as for stripping in the bedroom for one's husband......


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## meka (Apr 17, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I agree and I apologize if my post appears to make fun of her. I'm not. I'll send her a PM to apologize.
> 
> Okay.....as for stripping in the bedroom for one's husband......


 

Stop it!!!! LOL

Im just saying...............

Im just saying, things that are of the "world" so to speak, should not be done on ANY avenue. Whether it's for our husbands or not. They shouldnt NEED all that. You alone should be sufficient....


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 17, 2009)

Thats what I am saying. Stuff goes down at the club. Violence, fights, smoking, drunken rage, etc... There are demons in the club for sure. When I was in college, it was new and exciting because I was legal to do it. After about a year, not even getting serious in my walk, I saw that the club was no place for a child of God. I LOVVVEEEE to dance but I cant be having random men rubbing themselves on my behind, trying to feel me up, wearing next to nothing, showing out and showing my a$$....God wants you to have a good time, a HOLY God time that brings him Glory. Nothing in the club glorifies God. NOTHING! 




Shimmie said:


> *But why? Why go to an environment where 'danger' lurks. Not just for your physical safety, but for what you have chosen to embrace your spirit.*
> 
> There are all kinds of gods and satan is *the* *'Master'* ........ of deception and imitation. It's not enough for us to go to Church, confess Jesus as Lord, and still cling to satan's enviroment which has no life.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> It's in the inconsistency of equating salvation w/clothing choices.
> 
> It's in the inconsistency of equating salvation w/song choices.
> 
> ...


 
Baby Sis, I think everyone was consistant here.   

Consistantly for or Consistantly against.    And I don't think anyone equated their salvation with their lack of discretion in appearance.  

I'm just trying to understand what you're sharing, that's all.   

Still love you, always will.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 17, 2009)

Those may be facts (doesnt explain the context they were stated in) but what I am saying is I dont think anyone was questioning whether they were saved or have salvation in Jesus Christ. We are saying their dress is questionable for their ministry. 



FoxyScholar said:


> For kicks:
> 
> the term "Saved", when searched in this thread, was referenced 12 times.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Thats what I am saying. Stuff goes down at the club. Violence, fights, smoking, drunken rage, etc... There are demons in the club for sure. When I was in college, it was new and exciting because I was legal to do it. After about a year, not even getting serious in my walk, I saw that the club was no place for a child of God. I LOVVVEEEE to dance but I cant be having random men rubbing themselves on my behind, trying to feel me up, wearing next to nothing, showing out and showing my a$$....God wants you to have a good time, a HOLY God time that brings him Glory. Nothing in the club glorifies God. NOTHING!


 
You know something's wrong when they have 'Big Bubba's' at the door; guys with no necks and huge arms thicker than car tires. The 'bouncers'.

Scarey...


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## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

meka said:


> Stop it!!!! LOL
> 
> Im just saying...............
> 
> Im just saying, things that are of the "world" so to speak, should not be done on ANY avenue. Whether it's for our husbands or not. They shouldnt NEED all that. You alone should be sufficient....


 
But meka.... 

Don't husbands and wives get 'naked'?  

Lemme re-phrase....   

Don't *'Christian'* husbands and wives get 'nekkid'...   

Man!  I was gonna drop it like it's hot for him...he's not gonna like this.


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## meka (Apr 17, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> But meka....
> 
> Don't husbands and wives get 'naked'?
> 
> ...


 

Yes Lawd...we sho' do get nekkid" BUT, I don't need to slide down a pole to do it......LOL


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 17, 2009)

meka said:


> Yes Lawd...we sho' do get nekkid" BUT, I don't need *to slide down a pole to do it*......LOL


 
I will


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## meka (Apr 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I will


 

I know..........


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## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

meka said:


> Yes Lawd...we sho' do get nekkid" BUT, I don't need to slide down a pole to do it......LOL


Whew!    Thank the Lawd.  You had me kinda scared there for a minute.  

All this time I've been saving all my skin for him and him only to see.... :nervous:   

I have a beautiful wardrobe of gowns and costumes, Indian Sari gowns, just for him and.................plenty of Shimmies, and beautiful Hula and Tahitian Dances which I've choreographed just for him. 

So you saying I can't do this for my husband....   








He's the only I want to share this with...._the only one_.   

   




Love you, sis...     I'm just teasing you.  



Wait until he sees my Hulas....


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## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I will


 


Wheeeeeeeeee


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## Shimmie (Apr 17, 2009)

meka said:


> I know..........


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## mellowmel (Apr 18, 2009)

I apologize if it seemed I was putting her down about the club issue. I just feel that nothing in the club would be Holy. When I read that it just made me think of how so many people call themselves Christians but are partying it up, drinking, smoking with the best of them. As I said before something aint quite right about the club. When we hear of shootings/fights in the club you hear people say "People just don't know how to act". If a shooting happens at a church you hear "What was wrong with him/her you don't go into the house of the Lord with that mess!"  Raunchiness, violence, drunkenness, etc are expected in a club scene. Since it is expected why should one subject themselves to that kind of environment.


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## PaperClip (Apr 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Those may be facts (doesnt explain the context they were stated in) but what I am saying is I dont think anyone was questioning whether they were saved or have salvation in Jesus Christ. We are saying their dress is questionable for their ministry.


 
Is it logical to connect someone with a "ministry" to be in Christian ministry, e.g., ministering to others to be saved? And how can one minister to others to be saved if they may not be saved?

Because if it's not then this entire thread is moot...or at least my understanding of this subject matter is out of sorts.

That's how I was framing the context.

I mean. which "God" are they talking about? Do they even say the name "Jesus" in this song? Maybe I should have checked to see which "god" they are singing about that's in them.


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## SimpleKomplexity (Apr 18, 2009)

I personally like the song. I must admit I was a little  at the video at first because I thought it had a Tpain beat and just from hearing it I didn't know it was a gospel song.  But aside from that, I think they are trying to reach out to a broad population of Christians of there that are my age. A lot of us don't necessarily like to club andd party incessantly, but we do like good music. Fun upbeat tasteful music is our style, and I think this song represents that population.


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## Kurlee (Apr 18, 2009)

marie170 said:


> This is a comment from youtube I thought was interesting:
> 
> For everybody who is slow...*the song is talking about those people who are in the secular world (i.e. Beyonce, Kanye) who does secular music, but they are people who believe in God. Mary Mary (who are gospel singers) decided to do this song for those people. The song is letting you know that Christians don't look or act a certain way. God is in everything that everybody does.* Geesh...


I like the song and never understood why Christian music can't be appealing to young people. I mean, aren't they the easiest to stray? The ones who are just building their faith and struggle alot? I dunno as long as they are covered up and have a "clean" message, I really don't see the big deal in the song actually sounding like something that could play on mainstream radio. IMO, the more appealing the music is to the masses, the more people can be reached with the message........  I really feel that more Christians need to find the balance of being in this world, without being of this world. Being in a bubble, doesn't make necessarily make you a good Christian, nor does help you bring sheep to the flock.


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## Shimmie (Apr 18, 2009)

saved06 said:


> This was emailed to me below NWS:
> 
> http://www.mediatakeout.com/2009/32...icit_pics_together__well_heres_one_of_em.html
> 
> ...


This is sad and it shows the 'emptiness' of his soul (hers as well).   

Why isn't it enough for him to just have her pose in the picture beside him, wearing a beautiful smile and decently dressed?   What happen to the mode of decency?   This is why our world and young children are so messed up with sex, drugs, and violence.   There's no respect for one's self, let alone each other.  

Kanye is basically so insecure about his manhood, that in this picture he is saying, he's got himself a white woman and he's proving that he has had her naked.   It's not enough for him to just walk with her side by side holding her hand as a gentleman, while she's fully clothed, and just be happy in the public eye.     Instead, he is making a broadcast to the world, in an attempt (which is totally insecure) that he's got something that other men don't have.   Yet in reality, he's still void inside, shallow and even more insecure.    She looks like a 'slave' bowing to her master, subjecting herself to a man who disrespects her.   When a man loves and respects his woman, he doesn't subject her to such as this; he does not want the 'world' or not even one other man or woman to see her naked.  It's for his eyes only. 

What's sad is that children 'searching' for love and acceptance will follow suit. Whatever it takes to be like Kanye and slave.


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## blazingthru (Apr 18, 2009)

meka said:


> *She may be a babe in Christ*. We are to love her, not poke fun at her.


 
I am confused about this, I think once you hear and know the truth you act on it right away. I dont 'think you have grow into the truth, I think you have to grow in knowledge but going to the club is pretty much a given, going to the bar is pretty much a given, nothing in those places will glorify God or encourage you so why go back to the life you was once into that was leading you down the wrong path. I know what was going on in my mind when I went to the club. most times it was just to dance but truthfully I wanted to look really good and meet guys. I didn't want to come out of my pocket the entire night, I never did --my mind was not on the lord at all. (except a fear of being striked) My mind wasnt' on just having a good time there was more to it and truthfully there isn't anything good about going to the club. Then if your reading your bible like your suppose to as a new christian your constantly learning and being convicted so no I can't agree, I can agree if you just say your a christian and still doing what you were doing before. When I got baptised when I was 23 I was only saved for about 6 months then I was at the club and back into the lifestyle. Why? I could not committe to reading the bible and changing.  I wasn't ready for change. I didn't want to give up the "fun" that was in my life at that time.  I found myself slowly but surely doing things my way and not the way God wanted me to and ended up leaving the church all together. It only takes a little yeast to work through the entire batch of dough. so here I am I left the club 15 years ago. but now stronger in knowledge and faithful in reading every single day and as I read I am convicted and my entire life has changed and its started with me making a decision right then and there. Not one foot in the church and one out.


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## blazingthru (Apr 18, 2009)

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.Hebrews 13:4 (New International Version)
I searched this out a few years back, because my husband wanted to watch porn and I wasn't sure if that was okay or not. We never were porn watchers. I went to a member and asked about it. she said the marriage bed will be judged and it was sobering for us. Then I discovered this scripture and that was it for us.


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## blazingthru (Apr 18, 2009)

I think that in general people just really forgot about God especially most christians they forget his fierce anger. That you have to be holy in all that you do. Why do christians have to bend to fit in this world so that others will join, I can't agree with that either. God is holy we are called to be holy. The road to christ is very narrow and few find it, I can agree with that now I never understood it before you have to be willing to give up all you got to follow Christ not confirm and "fit into this world" that is passing away. This world is ending. We have to do all we can to try and save the lost. Not try to fit in. You cannot save the lost by appealing to what they desire thats in this world. You have to be the example that is consistent and true. 
Shimmie was my example. her consistent kindness, encourage me to go back to the bible with a different attitude. Then I was open to a program on TV that had me wanting to search out the scriptures for myself. Now I am learning the truth and doing all that I can to live it and be an example for others.


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## Empressive (Apr 18, 2009)

I really like this song, but I am not a fan of the video. It's funny that I came across this thread, because I thought I was the only one who raised an eyebrow when I seen the video. After, I watched the video I actually sent a text message to my friend saying, "Mary Mary missed the mark with that video."

In this song it talks about the reason that I have the things I have and do the things I do is because of God. Unfortunately, some of the artists in the video do not portray the lifestyle that the song is mentioning. We all fall short of God's glory, but to someone from the outside looking in; the picture looks a little cloudy. It just may cause someone from the outside to get the wrong idea about God and what he will REALLY do for you.


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## meka (Apr 18, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I am confused about this, I think once you hear and know the truth you act on it right away. I dont 'think you have grow into the truth, I think you have to grow in knowledge but going to the club is pretty much a given, going to the bar is pretty much a given, nothing in those places will glorify God or encourage you so why go back to the life you was once into that was leading you down the wrong path. I know what was going on in my mind when I went to the club. most times it was just to dance but truthfully I wanted to look really good and meet guys. I didn't want to come out of my pocket the entire night, I never did --my mind was not on the lord at all. (except a fear of being striked) My mind wasnt' on just having a good time there was more to it and truthfully there isn't anything good about going to the club. Then if your reading your bible like your suppose to as a new christian your constantly learning and being convicted so no I can't agree, I can agree if you just say your a christian and still doing what you were doing before. When I got baptised when I was 23 I was only saved for about 6 months then I was at the club and back into the lifestyle. Why? I could not committe to reading the bible and changing. I wasn't ready for change. I didn't want to give up the "fun" that was in my life at that time. I found myself slowly but surely doing things my way and not the way God wanted me to and ended up leaving the church all together. It only takes a little yeast to work through the entire batch of dough. so here I am I left the club 15 years ago. but now stronger in knowledge and faithful in reading every single day and as I read I am convicted and my entire life has changed and its started with me making a decision right then and there. Not one foot in the church and one out.


 

So when you first accepted Christ, did you do everything right? If you did, Kudos to you b/c for some, its a struggle. Sometimes, as I stated, she may be taught wrong, or around the wrong people. You are still to pray for those who are wayward in their thinking. Not poke fun. It's not funny when Christians think things so blatantaly incorrect are ok.


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## MA2010 (Apr 18, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I am confused about this, I think once you hear and know the truth you act on it right away. I dont 'think you have grow into the truth, I think you have to grow in knowledge but going to the club is pretty much a given, going to the bar is pretty much a given, nothing in those places will glorify God or encourage you so why go back to the life you was once into that was leading you down the wrong path. *I know what was going on in my mind when I went to the club. most times it was just to dance but truthfully I wanted to look really good and meet guys. I didn't want to come out of my pocket the entire night, I never did --my mind was not on the lord at all. (except a fear of being striked) My mind wasnt' on just having a good time there was more to it and truthfully there isn't anything good about going to the club. Then if your reading your bible like your suppose to as a new christian your constantly learning and being convicted so no I can't agree, I can agree if you just say your a christian and still doing what you were doing before. When I got baptised when I was 23 I was only saved for about 6 months then I was at the club and back into the lifestyle. Why? I could not committe to reading the bible and changing. I wasn't ready for change. I didn't want to give up the "fun" that was in my life at that time. I found myself slowly but surely doing things my way and not the way God wanted me to and ended up leaving the church all together. It only takes a little yeast to work through the entire batch of dough. so here I am I left the club 15 years ago. but now stronger in knowledge and faithful in reading every single day and as I read I am convicted and my entire life has changed and its started with me making a decision right then and there. Not one foot in the church and one out*.


 
Wonderful testimony.............sounds a lot like mine


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## Shimmie (Apr 18, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I think that in general people just really forgot about God especially most christians they forget his fierce anger. That you have to be holy in all that you do. Why do christians have to bend to fit in this world so that others will join, I can't agree with that either. God is holy we are called to be holy.
> 
> The road to christ is very narrow and few find it, I can agree with that now I never understood it before you have to be willing to give up all you got to follow Christ not confirm and "fit into this world" that is passing away. This world is ending. We have to do all we can to try and save the lost. Not try to fit in. You cannot save the lost by appealing to what they desire thats in this world. You have to be the example that is consistent and true.
> 
> ...


Blazingthru...... 

Precious One, I never knew....  

Lord knows in this forum, I'm way far from perfection.   As far as this forum goes, I'm only 'consistant' in kindness and love in my PM and Message box when I speaking to members one on one.   

Otherwise I never knew.


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## MA2010 (Apr 18, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I think that in general people just really forgot about God especially most christians they forget his fierce anger. That you have to be holy in all that you do. Why do christians have to bend to fit in this world so that others will join, I can't agree with that either. God is holy we are called to be holy. *The road to christ is very narrow and few find it, I can agree with that now I never understood it before you have to be willing to give up all you got to follow Christ not confirm and "fit into this world" that is passing away. This world is ending. We have to do all we can to try and save the lost. Not try to fit in. You cannot save the lost by appealing to what they desire thats in this world. You have to be the example that is consistent and true. *
> Shimmie was my example. her consistent kindness, encourage me to go back to the bible with a different attitude. Then I was open to a program on TV that had me wanting to search out the scriptures for myself. Now I am learning the truth and doing all that I can to live it and be an example for others.


 

Yes, yes, and YES at the bolded! How did I miss this one. Preach it girl!


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## blazingthru (Apr 18, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Blazingthru......
> 
> Precious One, I never knew....
> 
> ...


 
Yes girl it was you. Thanks for the kisses I love kisses.


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## blazingthru (Apr 18, 2009)

meka said:


> So when you first accepted Christ, did you do everything right? If you did, Kudos to you b/c for some, its a struggle. Sometimes, as I stated, she may be taught wrong, or around the wrong people. You are still to pray for those who are wayward in their thinking. Not poke fun. It's not funny when Christians think things so blatantaly incorrect are ok.


 
In my story I said I was saved for only six months before I fell away and the reason why I fell away was because *I WAS NOT WILLING TO CHANGE FOR GOD.*  I thought its okay to dance whats wrong with that, not thinking of your mindset when your at that type of enviroment dancing or doing anything else for that matter that you were doing before you decided to give your life to christ.  I  did not read my bible because it cut me to my heart to see myself for who I was and so I put it down and went after the stuff I wanted to do.  It became all about me and having fun. but it started off small. Now it should have cut me to my heart and I change but I didn't change because I I I thought I knew what was best for me. After all who was I harming.  I was harming anyone that might have had a chance at being saved because of my actions.  I'll share something else some of those people are dead now. I didn't share my faith with them I didn't change and so there was no reason for them to change.  
*1 John 3:10 (New International Version)*

10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: *Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; *nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
*2 Peter 2:20 (New International Version)*

20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

P.s. I don't think at any time I was making fun or poking fun or even commented on it. that is not what I  was refering to at any time.


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## hurricane (Apr 18, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> In my story I said I was saved for only six months before I fell away and the reason why I fell away was because *I WAS NOT WILLING TO CHANGE FOR GOD.* I thought its okay to dance whats wrong with that, not thinking of your mindset when your at that type of enviroment dancing or doing anything else for that matter that you were doing before you decided to give your life to christ. I did not read my bible because it cut me to my heart to see myself for who I was and so I put it down and went after the stuff I wanted to do. It became all about me and having fun. but it started off small. Now it should have cut me to my heart and I change but I didn't change because I I I thought I knew what was best for me. After all who was I harming. I was harming anyone that might have had a chance at being saved because of my actions. I'll share something else some of those people are dead now. I didn't share my faith with them I didn't change and so there was no reason for them to change.
> *1 John 3:10 (New International Version)*
> 
> 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: *Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; *nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
> ...


____________________________________________________________

*I backslide most of my christian walk. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. No we are not perfect but disobedience comes at a high price. I said that to say this. We need to encourage Bible reading so we will know the word for ourselves. We wil know how to talk, dress, act and live our own lives and not get watered down buy these Hollywood Christrians.*


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## meka (Apr 18, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> In my story I said I was saved for only six months before I fell away and the reason why I fell away was because *I WAS NOT WILLING TO CHANGE FOR GOD.* I thought its okay to dance whats wrong with that, not thinking of your mindset when your at that type of enviroment dancing or doing anything else for that matter that you were doing before you decided to give your life to christ. I did not read my bible because it cut me to my heart to see myself for who I was and so I put it down and went after the stuff I wanted to do. It became all about me and having fun. but it started off small. Now it should have cut me to my heart and I change but I didn't change because I I I thought I knew what was best for me. After all who was I harming. I was harming anyone that might have had a chance at being saved because of my actions. I'll share something else some of those people are dead now. I didn't share my faith with them I didn't change and so there was no reason for them to change.
> *1 John 3:10 (New International Version)*
> 
> 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: *Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; *nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
> ...




*I wasnt talking about you picking on her, I was talking about you saying something about it being an excuse about her being a babe in Christ. The poking fun comment wasnt for you.*


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## kally (Apr 18, 2009)

What I got out of it was this. Mary Mary was singing abot all of these people doing things, but then turn around and want to mention God.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 19, 2009)

Hiya! 
I would love to respond but now I am completely lost in what you are saying. 



FoxyScholar said:


> Is it logical to connect someone with a "ministry" to be in Christian ministry, e.g., ministering to others to be saved? And how can one minister to others to be saved if they may not be saved?
> 
> Because if it's not then this entire thread is moot...or at least my understanding of this subject matter is out of sorts.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Apr 19, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> Yes girl it was you. Thanks for the kisses I love kisses.


 

And now, it's 'you' teaching me.... a level of humilty. 

God bless you, Blazingthru; continue to grow in His word.  For that's where we live and move and breathe and have our total being.



Jesus Our Lord, Forever...


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## flautist (Apr 20, 2009)

Sometimes we have to reach people where they are. Babies need milk, so why try to give them food. We can't be so heavenly until we are no earthly good! Jesus didn't hang around the "do gooders and churchfolk", he was around the tax collectors and harlots and people who needed God. That's where we should be.


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## MA2010 (Apr 20, 2009)

flautist said:


> Sometimes we have to reach people where they are. Babies need milk, so why try to give them food. We can't be so heavenly until we are no earthly good! *Jesus didn't hang around the "do gooders and churchfolk", he was around the tax collectors and harlots and people who needed God. That's where we should be*.



I agree in that we must go out into the world and reach others where they stand. 

However, we have to _be the example and set the example_ like Jesus did when we do witness to others. 

I don't think Mary Mary did that.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2009)

Manushka said:


> I agree in that we must go out into the world and reach others where they stand.
> 
> *However, we have to be the example and set the example like Jesus did when we do witness to others. *
> 
> I don't think Mary Mary did that.


 
   Excellent post!  

Exactly!  

When Jesus reached out, He didn't dress or become like those He was reaching out to.   He maintained who He was and received a multitude of followers.    He didn't drop His pants way below His belt line; neither did He hip hop de' bop to a rhythm just to get their attention.    Neither did the women who ministered drop their bustline nor raise their hems, just to reach and get others to follow them.

They, along with He, Jesus, remained the same, then, yesterday, today and forever.   He was consistantly the same, without blemish, shame or blame. 

Mary, Mary and the like simply want to dress that way.  It's a choice that they've made for themselves.   

One thing I've learned for myself is that the Holy Spirit bypasses 'resistance' and cold hearts.   I may not be dressed up in a 'clergical robe and collar', but neither am I busting out of my jeans and T Shirt to minister to someone.    

The Holy Spirit has mananged to take me into the most unlike places and at the most unlikely times, and HE alone broke down the barriers to get He love and message through to the person and/or persons He's led me to minister to.   

You know what Manuska? (love your name )   'We' know that it's not about dressing down to the world's level to reach them.   The 'Entertainers'  know it too.    It a matter of dressing up to the level of Godliness, setting the standard of real change.


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## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2009)

flautist said:


> Sometimes we have to reach people where they are. Babies need milk, so why try to give them food. We can't be so heavenly until we are no earthly good! Jesus didn't hang around the "do gooders and churchfolk", he was around the tax collectors and harlots and people who needed God. That's where we should be.


 
I understand about 'babies and milk'.   However, we even clothe our babies in the right garments and teach them what to cover accordingly.  As a child, my parents taught me early how to dress and what to keep covered.   They also set the example.   They weren't being cruel, they were protecting me and teaching me modesty.  

Jesus never compromised His image, presentation, standards no matter where He was.   He immediately told them what not to do, which was go and sin no more.   No sour milk about it.


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 20, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Hiya!
> I would love to respond but now I am completely lost in what you are saying.


 






I think the underlying (sincere and inevitable) aspect of this conversation has to do with salvation and the preservation of Christian holiness... who is responsible for maintaining holiness, being an example to represent Christ in our conduct (whoever we are, including Mary Mary who has an international stage, or me,, or you, or all of us here in this thread).

Would it make sense to demand that Mary Mary be an "example" to other Christians if we didn't want to believe they were saved at all? Why would there be a demand on a gospel singer (saved or otherwise) to be an example to other Christians if there wasn't an expectation that that gospel singer was already saved?


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Apr 20, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I think the underlying (sincere and inevitable) aspect of this conversation has to do with salvation and the preservation of Christian holiness... who is responsible for maintaining holiness, being an example to represent Christ in our conduct (whoever we are, including Mary Mary who has an international stage, or me,, or you, or all of us here in this thread).
> 
> Would it make sense to demand that Mary Mary be an "example" to other Christians if we didn't want to believe they were saved at all? Why would there be a demand on a gospel singer (saved or otherwise) to be an example to other Christians if there wasn't an expectation that that gospel singer was already saved?


 

I believe your obversation goes alot deeper than we are discussing. We did not question their salvation and if someone did, they did out of their own capacity. The overall point is as CHRISTIAN women and leaders, they should set an example for their audience and that they should focus on Gospel and not themselves, which is a fair and honorable point. They dont have to be like anyone else but its fair to ask them not to show cleavage. Being that they are CHRISTIAN women, they should know better.


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 20, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I believe your obversation goes alot deeper than we are discussing. We did not question their salvation and if someone did, they did out of their own capacity. The overall point is as CHRISTIAN women and leaders, *they should set an example for their audience and that they should focus on Gospel* and not themselves, which is a fair and honorable point. They dont have to be like anyone else but its fair to ask them not to show cleavage. *Being that they are CHRISTIAN women*, they should know better.


 
The bolded goes right back to my first post in this thread: what EVIDENCE do we have to support any type of CLAIM that they are Christian and/or saved?

Like Shimmie said, ANYBODY CAN SING A GOSPEL SONG. ANYBODY. It's not like there's an exam or "blood test" (no pun intended!) that a singer has to go through (to prove/denote their salvation) before they record a gospel record.

Just because a person sings a gospel record doesn't mean that they have to set an example for their audience. 

So for us to challenge them to set an example is... well...unfounded(?) for lack of a better term....


----------



## kinkicurlyfyne (Apr 20, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Sooo... what is their style? And how are we supposed to know their style? I thought it would be by listening to their music.
> 
> I really liked their first CD. But it seems that they've deviated from the style of that first CD into more...how shall I say.... *stretching the boundaries of a "gospel" sound... and not necessarily in a good way*.


 
Well, it is by listening to their music. I'm basing it off of CD's they've put out before. What I meant is that it doesn't sound like something they would sing/write, etc. Sure, at times when they are singing (on this CD), you can tell its obviously MaryMary by the way that they sing, certain sounds/beats/rhythms, whatever. But some songs, I was like, who is this? 
I do listen to non-gospel music, but I don't really like blending the two together so much. MaryMary never really was old-school gospel to begin with, but the David Banner/T-Pain sound is a little much for me.


----------



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Apr 20, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> *sigh*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




LOLOL out loud.  Now I have to stop passing this thread by and see the vid.


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 20, 2009)

kinkicurlyfyne said:


> Well, it is by listening to their music. I'm basing it off of CD's they've put out before. What I meant is that it doesn't sound like something they would sing/write, etc. Sure, at times when they are singing (on this CD), you can tell its obviously MaryMary by the way that they sing, certain sounds/beats/rhythms, whatever. But some songs, I was like, who is this?
> I do listen to non-gospel music, but I don't really like blending the two together so much. MaryMary never really was old-school gospel to begin with, but the David Banner/T-Pain sound is a little much for me.


 
I see what you're saying. Sure, it's ok for a musical artist to stretch and challenge themselves musically. That keeps things fresh. (And that applies to all of us in whatever we're doing... to challenge ourselves and avoid boredom, etc.).  Mary Mary uses different producers on their albums and different producers will produce different sounds, obviously.

I personally was not expecting Mary Mary to sound "old-school" (now that would be interesting to define what old-school gospel is) but at the same time, holiness can sound a lot of ways in terms of certain sounds/beats/rhythms, etc. But the only thing that holiness CANNOT sound like is unholy, meaning it doesn't soothe the soul and turn one toward Christ. If I'm thinking about the club instead of Jesus, I'm just saying, that's probably not edifying to the soul and spirit.


----------



## Precious_1 (Apr 20, 2009)

Manushka said:


> I agree in that we must go out into the world and reach others where they stand.
> 
> However, we have to _be the example and set the example_ like Jesus did when we do witness to others.
> 
> I don't think Mary Mary did that.


 
I agree, I dont think they did that at all. The song was the perfect opportunity to minister to people that are still "in the world" the beat was catchy, the lyrics were on point, so when they brought it to life in a video, who knows how many people they could have turned from the world and into the knowledge of jesus christ.  They could have demonstrated what having him in their lives could do for them!  It was an opportunity to show people that even living for Jesus, they could have it all together, live a good life, etc. there was one poster who took it as you can still go to the club, have a good time, and the words clearly don't say anything like that but if you watch the video, well....it may very well suggest that. Kanye West and Bi-sexual Amber was not a good look.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> LOLOL out loud. Now I have to stop passing this thread by and see the vid.




Of course I took it to the next level and Foxy Scholar called me out on it. 



She's still my Little Sis...


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> The bolded goes right back to my first post in this thread: what EVIDENCE do we have to support any type of CLAIM that they are Christian and/or saved?
> 
> Like Shimmie said, ANYBODY CAN SING A GOSPEL SONG. ANYBODY. It's not like there's an exam or "blood test" (no pun intended!) that a singer has to go through (to prove/denote their salvation) before they record a gospel record.
> 
> ...


   After 200 plus posts in this thread, I FINALLY understand what you meant in this thread.   

Beautiful Little Sister of My Heart...   when it's late at night and I'm reading your posts....

*Foxy, Speak English!* 

Geeee Whizzzzzzzzzz    

You had my brain going like this for over a week in this thread...

Love you girl...


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 20, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> After 200 plus posts in this thread, I FINALLY understand what you meant in this thread.
> 
> Beautiful Little Sister of My Heart...  when it's late at night and I'm reading your posts....
> 
> ...


 
:blush3:Sigh... sniff....

Yet another reason why I love you so dearly.... 20 pages into this and you didn't give up on me.... I you, Dear Big Sis Shimmie!


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 20, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> :blush3:Sigh... sniff....
> 
> Yet another reason why I love you so dearly.... 20 pages into this and you didn't give up on me.... I you, Dear Big Sis Shimmie!


Right back at you  

Tomorrow's my birthday and you are one of my Dearest Gifts from Heaven.


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 20, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Right back at you
> 
> Tomorrow's my birthday and you are one of my Dearest Gifts from Heaven.


 
In advance, Blessed Birthday! Will say a special birthday prayer for you!


----------



## MizzCoco (Apr 23, 2009)

I'm gonna comment with out reading the others, so forgive me if i repeat anything...I like the song, however, I think some of the people in the video should not have been there, but thats my opinion.


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## MissNina (Apr 26, 2009)

I only read the first few posts, but I love the song! The video is kind of dumb. I don't feel it matches with the song.

I have no issues with anyone in or out of the video b/c God is not exclusive to anyone. Just b/c you make secular music, go to the club or wherever else you choose, does NOT in any way mean you don't love God or place Him in top priority. And that is the entire point of the song. Ppl are focusing on the beat but listen to what they're saying. . .it's so true. Lyrically, I really like it and relate.

But Steve Harvey's comment truly bothers me. I guess his book is a "on the fence Christian" relationship book, as he condones premarital sex in it. He is the last person to talk. I really don't like him at all


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## hurricane (Apr 26, 2009)

MissNina said:


> I only read the first few posts, but I love the song! The video is kind of dumb. I don't feel it matches with the song.
> 
> I have no issues with anyone in or out of the video b/c God is not exclusive to anyone. Just b/c you make secular music, go to the club or wherever else you choose, does NOT in any way mean you don't love God or place Him in top priority. And that is the entire point of the song. Ppl are focusing on the beat but listen to what they're saying. . .it's so true. Lyrically, I really like it and relate.
> 
> But Steve Harvey's comment truly bothers me. I guess his book is a "on the fence Christian" relationship book, as he condones premarital sex in it. He is the last person to talk. I really don't like him at all


 _______________________________________________________________

*This type of person would be classified as a lukewarm christian according to scripture. Jesus says, because you are neither hot nor cold I will spew you out of my mouth. This is found in the Book of Revalation. *

*Abraham came from of family of idol worshippers. He was called out and the Father gave his descendents Laws on how to live. The chlidren of Israel were not to live as the other peoples of the world.  This is our down fall as christians. We are the light of the world but we keep polluting this light because we want to be like everyone else.*

*Jesus says, if you love me you will follow my commandments, which include the old and new testament. He did not come to destroy the law but fulfill it.*

*I don't care for Steve Harvey either.*


----------



## Kurlee (Apr 26, 2009)

MissNina said:


> I only read the first few posts, but I love the song! The video is kind of dumb. I don't feel it matches with the song.
> 
> I have no issues with anyone in or out of the video b/c God is not exclusive to anyone. Just b/c you make secular music, go to the club or wherever else you choose, does NOT in any way mean you don't love God or place Him in top priority. And that is the entire point of the song. Ppl are focusing on the beat but listen to what they're saying. . .it's so true. Lyrically, I really like it and relate.
> 
> But Steve Harvey's comment truly bothers me. I guess his book is a "on the fence Christian" relationship book, as he condones premarital sex in it. He is the last person to talk. I really don't like him at all


I totally agree Miss Nina. Why do Christians feel that they have to isolate themselves from everything and everyone who is not where they are in their walk with God?  People are all raised differently and have different life experiences, and if anyone should be the most understanding about life and obstacles and people and their complexities, it should be Christians.  Jesus didn't only chill with the people who "got it right"


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## Kurlee (Apr 26, 2009)

hurricane said:


> *Jesus says, if you love me you will follow my commandments, which include the old and new testament. He did not come to destroy the law but fulfill it.*


 Interesting, if thats the case, then the ten commandments say to follow the 7th day as the sabbath, which would be Saturday, so how come the majority of Christians here go to church on Sunday and regard that as their "holy day"? Also, in Leviticus, it discusses, clean and unclean meats, and plenty of Christians here eat pork (considered unclean) and shellfish among other things.  What's up with that?


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## hurricane (Apr 26, 2009)

Kurlee said:


> I totally agree Miss Nina. Why do Christians feel that they have to isolate themselves from everything and everyone who is not where they are in their walk with God? People are all raised differently and have different life experiences, and if anyone should be the most understanding about life and obstacles and people and their complexities, it should be Christians. Jesus didn't only chill with the people who "got it right"


 ____________________________________________________________

*Christians are to be in the world but not of the world. I don't isolate myself from others. I have co-workers who are stepping out on their husbands. One asked me to go out with her. I declined because of the situation she has put herself in. It is a dangerous situation. *

*Yes many people come from different backgrounds. But one common denominator is the Word of God. For those of you who don't agree read the Word and encourage those around you to read it. It will bring clarity, revelation, and understanding.*


----------



## thatscuteright (Apr 26, 2009)

Sigh...There are so many discrepancies between the Bible, how people actually live today, Western ideology, lifestyle and interpretation.

I like Mary Mary and believe that like Tyler Perry they have a built in audience that are receptive to their kind of music.


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## hurricane (Apr 26, 2009)

Kurlee said:


> Interesting, if thats the case, then the ten commandments say to follow the 7th day as the sabbath, which would be Saturday, so how come the majority of Christians here go to church on Sunday and regard that as their "holy day"? Also, in Leviticus, it discusses, clean and unclean meats, and plenty of Christians here eat pork (considered unclean) and shellfish among other things. What's up with that?


_____________________________________________________________

*If you know the Sabbath to be on Saturday, then why don't you observe it. I just started myself. I try not to buy or sell anything. I rest on that day and spend time with my family. *

*If you know pork to be bad don't eat it. In Acts 11: 6-9*

*When I observed it intently and considered, I saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. *

*And I heard a voice saying to me, ' Rise, Peter; kill and eat.'*

*But I said, ' Not so Lord! For nothing common or unclean has at any time entered my mouth.'*

*But the voice answered me again from heaven, ' what God has cleansed you must not call common.'*


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## hurricane (Apr 26, 2009)

Yemaya said:


> Sigh...There are so many discrepancies between the Bible, how people actually live, Western ideology, lifestyle and interpretation.
> Where do you really begin ?
> The Pagan Holidays ( i.e Easter)
> The unclean diet ( i.e non vegetarian, pork, etc...)
> ...


 ______________________________________________________________

*We are to live as the Word has called us how to live. *


----------



## Kurlee (Apr 26, 2009)

hurricane said:


> _____________________________________________________________
> 
> *If you know the Sabbath to be on Saturday, then why don't you observe it. I just started myself. I try not to buy or sell anything. I rest on that day and spend time with my family. *
> 
> ...


 I wasn't directing my questions to anyone specifically, those are questions that I wonder. The point that I was trying to make, is that I notice Christians have a tendency to be very judgmental at times and have tunnel vision, when there are things that they themselves, may be in the grey area about.  From what I have read, there are areas of the bible that can be contradictory and open for interpretation and I feel like we should judge and criticize others LESS and be more focused on strengthening faith and clarity.


----------



## hurricane (Apr 26, 2009)

Kurlee said:


> I wasn't directing my questions to anyone specifically, those are questions that I wonder. The point that I was trying to make, is that I notice Christians have a tendency to be very judgmental at times and have tunnel vision, when there are things that they themselves, may be in the grey area about. From what I have read, there are areas of the bible that can be contradictory and open for interpretation and I feel like we should judge and criticize others LESS and be more focused on strengthening faith and clarity.


____________________________________________________________

*I know that you were not directing it to anyone. Jesus told us to take the plank out of our eye then we will see clearly. I always hear Christians don't do this or they don't do that. This is a weapon that is constantly used against the body of Christ. I do believe that there are more Christians living right than lukewarm and wrong.*

* God will not be out done. *

*Elijiah thought that he was the only one living right but God told him I have 300 prophets who have not bowed down to baal. *


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## PaperClip (Apr 26, 2009)

hurricane said:


> *Elijiah thought that he was the only one living right but God told him I have 300 prophets who have not bowed down to baal. *


 
I'm not really interested in this latest tangent re. the parallels of the Bible to contemporary society but had to salute this portion of the post.... The Lord ALWAYS... ALWAYS has a remnant....

and I think it's a futile conversation to be (overly) concerned about who else is or ain't doing or not doing this or that.... When we stand before the Lord on Judgement Day, we each stand before Him ALONE.

Now I said overly concerned but as the salt of the earth, the saints of God are to be careful to UPHOLD and DEFEND the faith and when there is an obvious violation, that needs to be called out (in love and wisdom)...meaning the goal is not to embarrass, but to sharpen as iron and win that person over to Christ in love and lifestyle (conversation).


----------



## hurricane (Apr 26, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I'm not really interested in this latest tangent re. the parallels of the Bible to contemporary society but had to salute this portion of the post.... The Lord ALWAYS... ALWAYS has a remnant....
> 
> and I think it's a futile conversation to be (overly) concerned about who else is or ain't doing or not doing this or that.... When we stand before the Lord on Judgement Day, we each stand before Him ALONE.
> 
> Now I said overly concerned but as the salt of the earth, the saints of God are to be careful to UPHOLD and DEFEND the faith and when there is an obvious violation, that needs to be called out (in love and wisdom)...meaning the goal is not to embarrass, but to sharpen as iron and win that person over to Christ in love and lifestyle (conversation).


_____________________________________________________________

*Love all of ya'll. If I didn't I would be silent. *


----------



## MissNina (Apr 26, 2009)

hurricane said:


> _______________________________________________________________
> 
> *This type of person would be classified as a lukewarm christian according to scripture. Jesus says, because you are neither hot nor cold I will spew you out of my mouth. This is found in the Book of Revalation. *
> 
> ...



Point that Scripture out to me b/c I don't recall ever reading anything like that. I believe there are some verses/passages you can interpret that way if you wish, but it's not clear or explicably stated. I don't believe making secular music or going to certain places is against any Jesus-given Commandment. It's what you do in said environments that show your true Christianity.  In fact, Scripturally, Jesus was where the sinners were.

I do respect your opinion but I take it as that and not a Biblical fact unless I am mistaken and it is explicitly stated there somewhere.


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## blazingthru (Apr 26, 2009)

Kurlee said:


> I wasn't directing my questions to anyone specifically, those are questions that I wonder. The point that I was trying to make, is that I notice Christians have a tendency to be very judgmental at times and have tunnel vision, when there are things that they themselves, may be in the grey area about. From what I have read, there are areas of the bible that can be contradictory and open for interpretation and I feel like we should judge and criticize others LESS and be more focused on strengthening faith and clarity.


 
I agree we should be less critical and more loving but we should say something if someone says they are a christian and not living like they should if we love our brothers and sisters we won't stand by and let it continue if we can help it.
Many Christians do not know their history thats why they observe traditions of man and not search futher in the scriptures and even other books ( these other books explain exactly what happened and when and how many people died because they refuse to worship on Sunday) to find out why people go to service on Sunday. Its not biblical I searched for weeks before I made up my mind to go to service on Saturday.  Whenever we read the bible we must pray and ask God to help us understand what is in the passages and how do they apply to us. If we have a willing heart, God will see this and open your eyes to whats in the scriptures.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Apr 26, 2009)

Nevermind......


----------



## divya (Apr 26, 2009)

MissNina said:


> *Point that Scripture out to me b/c I don't recall ever reading anything like that.* I believe there are some verses/passages you can interpret that way if you wish, but it's not clear or explicably stated. I don't believe making secular music or going to certain places is against any Jesus-given Commandment. It's what you do in said environments that show your true Christianity.  In fact, Scripturally, Jesus was where the sinners were.
> 
> I do respect your opinion but I take it as that and not a Biblical fact unless I am mistaken and it is* explicitly stated there somewhere.*



Here is the verse.

*Revelation 3:16 *-  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Bless.


----------



## MissNina (Apr 26, 2009)

divya said:


> Here is the verse.
> 
> *Revelation 3:16 *-  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
> 
> Bless.



Hey, thanks for trying to help, but that's not what I was referring to. 

That just explains that being lukewarm is not acceptable. . .however, we could easily debate what would be considered "lukewarm" in a denominational context vs. a Biblical context. I was looking for a verse much more specific to what Hurricane was referring to - one that would be more difficult to claim subjectivity.

Hope that makes sense


----------



## MissNina (Apr 26, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> *I agree we should be less critical and more loving but we should say something if someone says they are a christian and not living like they should if we love our brothers and sisters we won't stand by and let it continue if we can help it.*
> Many Christians do not know their history thats why they observe traditions of man and not search futher in the scriptures and even other books ( these other books explain exactly what happened and when and how many people died because they refuse to worship on Sunday) to find out why people go to service on Sunday. Its not biblical I searched for weeks before I made up my mind to go to service on Saturday.  Whenever we read the bible we must pray and ask God to help us understand what is in the passages and how do they apply to us. If we have a willing heart, God will see this and open your eyes to whats in the scriptures.



I agree with this and some other things you said in your post. However, I do feel like we should realize that when we say certain things that blatantly depend on personal interpretation of Scripture or denominational view, that we need to take into account that is just our perspective. Sometimes things are said or instructions are implied, and it is not Biblically solid. 

I feel like issues with where you can or cannot go, who you can or cannot talk to, what you can listen to or what you can't are HIGHLY personal decisions based on an individual's relationship with God. It's not fair of me to place the way I view matters like that on other ppl - esp those ppl who are not under the same pastoral leadership or are nondenom. There are some things in The Bible that are explicitly stated and are much harder to debate. For instance, I still to this day don't understand how some ppl try to say Christianity should condone a homosexual lifestyle when The Bible explicitly states it is against it. But there are many things that are the opposite. Knowing the historical context of certain verses is critical to understanding them. I find that sometimes ppl quote verses by themselves but totally missed the context that verse was said in. And then. . .still. . .everyone doesn't view Scripture the same way.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 26, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Nevermind......


......


----------



## MissNina (Apr 26, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> ......



I don't feel posts like this are beneficial. They seem very condescending and are not seeking to provide guidance nor understand. I haven't seen anything in the last page or so that would warrant it. Just difference of opinion. But maybe you don't mean it the way it looks. 

ETA: I'm sorry if that sounds accusatory. . .I don't mean it to be. Truly.


----------



## divya (Apr 26, 2009)

MissNina said:


> Hey, thanks for trying to help, but that's not what I was referring to.
> 
> That just explains that being lukewarm is not acceptable. . .however, we could easily debate what would be considered "lukewarm" in a denominational context vs. a Biblical context. I was looking for a verse much more specific to what Hurricane was referring to - one that would be more difficult to claim subjectivity.
> 
> Hope that makes sense



Oh, I thought you were wondering what verse was being referenced. Guess I am not completely following. Lo siento.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 27, 2009)

MissNina said:


> I don't feel posts like this are beneficial. They seem very condescending and are not seeking to provide guidance nor understand. I haven't seen anything in the last page or so that would warrant it. Just difference of opinion. But maybe you don't mean it the way it looks.
> 
> ETA: I'm sorry if that sounds accusatory. . .I don't mean it to be. Truly.


It's fine.    Accusations don't bother me.    

Whether I verbalize, symbolize, or draw a blank, for whatever reason, someone may or may not take offense to it.  That's 'thread' life.  

For 'clarity'   


:Rose:  Blessings...


----------



## MissNina (Apr 27, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> It's fine.    Accusations don't bother me.
> 
> Whether I verbalize, symbolize, or draw a blank, for whatever reason, someone may or may not take offense to it.  That's 'thread' life.
> 
> ...



Understood. And I hope you understand how it can come off as if there was a negative intent, even if there was none. But I do understand.

Thanks for explaining, hun


----------



## hurricane (Apr 29, 2009)

MissNina said:


> Point that Scripture out to me b/c I don't recall ever reading anything like that. I believe there are some verses/passages you can interpret that way if you wish, but it's not clear or explicably stated. I don't believe making secular music or going to certain places is against any Jesus-given Commandment. It's what you do in said environments that show your true Christianity. In fact, Scripturally, Jesus was where the sinners were.
> 
> I do respect your opinion but I take it as that and not a Biblical fact unless I am mistaken and it is explicitly stated there somewhere.


_____________________________________________________________

*Joshua 24: 2-3*

*And Joshua said to all the people, Thus says the Lord God of Israel: Your fathers, including Terah, the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, dwelt on the other side of the River in old times; and they served other gods.*

*Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the River, led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multipled his descendants and gave him Isaac.*


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## hurricane (Apr 29, 2009)

MissNina said:


> Hey, thanks for trying to help, but that's not what I was referring to.
> 
> That just explains that being lukewarm is not acceptable. . .however, we could easily debate what would be considered "lukewarm" in a denominational context vs. a Biblical context. I was looking for a verse much more specific to what Hurricane was referring to - one that would be more difficult to claim subjectivity.
> 
> Hope that makes sense


 ______________________________________________________________

*Hope this can clear things up. I read this Monday night. I'm trying not to get on this internet everyday. I have housework that needs tending too.*

*Leviticus 10:1-3 Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. *

*So fire went out from the Lord and devored them, and they died before the Lord,*

*And Moses said to Aaron, " This is what the Lord spoke, saying:*
*By those who come near Me*
*I must be regarded as holy;*
*And before all the people*
*I must be glorified*
*So Aaron held his peace.*

*We must be respectful to God and his word if we are to minister before him.*

*2 Timothy 4:3-4*

*For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers, and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.*


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## Irresistible (Apr 30, 2009)

i DUNNO

let Go, LET GOD

I cant read this whole thread

but thats what came to mind


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## blazingthru (May 1, 2009)

MissNina said:


> I agree with this and some other things you said in your post. However, I do feel like we should realize that when we say certain things that blatantly depend on personal interpretation of Scripture or denominational view, that we need to take into account that is just our perspective. Sometimes things are said or instructions are implied, and it is not Biblically solid.
> 
> I feel like issues with where you can or cannot go, who you can or cannot talk to, what you can listen to or what you can't are HIGHLY personal decisions based on an individual's relationship with God. It's not fair of me to place the way I view matters like that on other ppl - esp those ppl who are not under the same pastoral leadership or are nondenom.


 
But how do we know if it’s someone’s personal interpretation unless we go back over the scriptures and examine it ourselves.  Scripture backs up scripture over and over again. So if someone takes a line and then run with it  would be easy to find out what it really meant, for example.   Most Christians take Act 10 as if God was saying they can eat pork and seafood and just stopping there. When God wasn’t talking about food at all.  *10* Then he ( peter) became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have *never* eaten anything common or unclean.” ( this also is important because this is years after Jesus has passed and he still is keeping the law and observing the Sabbath). 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “W*hat God has cleansed you must not call common.*” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again. Then we skip down to verse 24  and we have the clear meaning of what this vision is.  24 And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped _him._ 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man *common or unclean.*


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## blazingthru (May 1, 2009)

MissNina said:


> I feel like issues with where you can or cannot go, who you can or cannot talk to, what you can listen to or what you can't are HIGHLY personal decisions based on an individual's relationship with God. It's not fair of me to place the way I view matters like that on other ppl - esp those ppl who are not under the same pastoral leadership or are nondenom. There are some things in The Bible that are explicitly stated and are much harder to debate. For instance, I still to this day don't understand how some ppl try to say Christianity should condone a homosexual lifestyle when The Bible explicitly states it is against it. But there are many things that are the opposite. Knowing the historical context of certain verses is critical to understanding them. I find that sometimes ppl quote verses by themselves but totally missed the context that verse was said in. And then. . .still. . .everyone doesn't view Scripture the same way.


 
We as Christians should be like minded *we all* have the word of God and when other take it to another level that is between them and the lord. We have the word of God that gives instructions to follow that are not a burden to us. We are to love one another teaching one another if that person wants to continue sinning well as far as I am concern I would think no more of it as long as I have tried to advise them of the truth and they refuse because to them its not this or that its whatever they want it to be, when the bible clearly states with studying and looking with a clear mind these things lead to this path. But I will share my experience, I never mind doing that because I hope that someone else can learn from my mistakes, clubbing when your in the club your dancing and shaking your body. I don’t care if you do the two steps your body is moving this way and that and its sexually exciting to other woman and man.  Also I look cute I like to look in the mirror to make sure when I do this or that it looks good and I don’t look crazy on the floor not so much for the men but the woman who is looking at your cute shoes or the sexy tight dress or pants you brought for tonight Sex is at the top of the chart whether your thinking it or not it is on someones mind that night and you encouraged it with your actions knowingly or not.  If your dancing with a certain person that sometimes leads to a sexual experience for yourself and others watching you.  Now I will be real on this one I had a boyfriend so to me it was all in fun (I wasn’t having sex with anyone but him) but I still thought all these things and I always went with a huge number of people we had regulars going the same three clubs in philly and one in New Jerseys and one on the Military base. I always had a crowd and we all thought pretty much the same while we were getting ready to go to the club.  It wasn’t about the Lord. There was no thought about Jesus coming with us. Not none of us and had he came none of us wanted to be up on there so you can see where my mind was. The environment the vibe is not conducive to thinking about the lord or anything spiritual for that matter it more of a dark spiritual thing going on in there to take each time you are there  down a different path and sooner or later you can’t relate to anyone going to church and reading their bible because you can’t compare it to the “fun” you thought you were having at the club.  It will take years before you wake up and you think why in the world did I think that was fun. For some it never happens, Only God can wake you up from the madness.  I was worried all the time about someone grabbing this or that snatching my purse, my earrings, robbing me, shooting, fighting, drunkenness, throwing up. Drugs everywhere what is the world was fun about that. Music has  been largely captured by Satan, I mean isn’t music his thing anyway. He is the master of all music so of course he would have great power in it. The music often glorifies vice (satan acting in a place of another) and destroys a desire for spiritual matters.  Music can have great power, *spiritual music* for me brings me to tears sometimes. I often have to lift my arms in praise, I have to pause and thank God for getting me through something. I forget this terrible moment in my life that God brought me through and when I hear this song, You have made me glad and I say to the Lord you are my shield, my strength, my portion, deliverer, my shelter, strong tower, My very present help In time of need. It hits me because at that darkest moment, he comes and rescues you at that last moment in time. Here he is to save you from whatever you are going through.  How can I want to listen to anything else. This is my feelings spiritually, Imagine not spiritual.  This is what music does to you. It enters the brain through the emotions, thus bypassing reasoning powers, It affects every function of the body, it can alter pulse, breath rates, and reflexes without the person realizing it, Syncopated dance rhythms alter moods and create a mild hypnosis in the listener, I got this from a pamphlet that I just so happen to be reading when I came across this response to my post. Wow. Without lyrics the music has the power to debase person’s feelings. Did you hear about those two Asian men who listen to hard metal and jumped out the window. Well one fell out and the other jumped out behind him.  Besides the bible tells you what is good and pure and holy think on these things, mediate on these things. Phillippians 4:8 Meditate on These Things -- 8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. 9 *The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you*

There are some things in The Bible that are explicitly stated and are much harder to debate. For instance, I still to this day don't understand how some ppl try to say Christianity should condone a homosexual lifestyle when The Bible explicitly states it is against it. But there are many things that are the opposite. Knowing the historical context of certain verses is critical to understanding them. I find that sometimes ppl quote verses by themselves but totally missed the context that verse was said in. And then. . .still. . .everyone doesn't view Scripture the same way. 

This is true many people will view the bible in the way that makes it most acceptable to them. To their own shame.  You have to keep fighting for the goal without worry about what they are doing. I mean its different if they are in the church with you.  I would say something about it several times and then I will remove myself from that church and pray and ask God to find me a church that is truly trying to worship you.  I have been to many, many, many churches my entire life. I found emptiness in all of them until now.  I am learning now. I have not committed myself to any church or its teachings. I have not done that. I just go and sit in the pew for a few hours and go home. I do my own studies. I intend to study at the church but first I have to make sure they are teaching the truth by studying it myself. Whatever they teach me from the point where I decide to join I will measure it against the word of God and if its not correct then I say so.


----------



## MissNina (May 1, 2009)

hurricane said:


> ______________________________________________________________
> 
> *Hope this can clear things up. I read this Monday night. I'm trying not to get on this internet everyday. I have housework that needs tending too.*
> 
> ...





hurricane said:


> _____________________________________________________________
> 
> *Joshua 24: 2-3*
> 
> ...



I agree with the underlined. I still don't see how this passage says that you can't listen to secular music nor go to particular places. . .or that God is exclusive to anyone. I don't see the meaning which you inferred. . .but thanks for pointing them out to me. I appreciate you trying to help me understand where you're coming from even if we don't agree on certain things


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## MissNina (May 1, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> We as Christians should be like minded *we all* have the word of God and when other take it to another level that is between them and the lord. We have the word of God that gives instructions to follow that are not a burden to us. We are to love one another teaching one another if that person wants to continue sinning well as far as I am concern I would think no more of it as long as I have tried to advise them of the truth and they refuse because to them its not this or that its whatever they want it to be, when the bible clearly states with studying and looking with a clear mind these things lead to this path. But I will share my experience, I never mind doing that because I hope that someone else can learn from my mistakes, clubbing when your in the club your dancing and shaking your body. I don’t care if you do the two steps your body is moving this way and that and its sexually exciting to other woman and man.  Also I look cute I like to look in the mirror to make sure when I do this or that it looks good and I don’t look crazy on the floor not so much for the men but the woman who is looking at your cute shoes or the sexy tight dress or pants you brought for tonight Sex is at the top of the chart whether your thinking it or not it is on someones mind that night and you encouraged it with your actions knowingly or not.  If your dancing with a certain person that sometimes leads to a sexual experience for yourself and others watching you.  Now I will be real on this one I had a boyfriend so to me it was all in fun (I wasn’t having sex with anyone but him) but I still thought all these things and I always went with a huge number of people we had regulars going the same three clubs in philly and one in New Jerseys and one on the Military base. I always had a crowd and we all thought pretty much the same while we were getting ready to go to the club.  It wasn’t about the Lord. There was no thought about Jesus coming with us. Not none of us and had he came none of us wanted to be up on there so you can see where my mind was. The environment the vibe is not conducive to thinking about the lord or anything spiritual for that matter it more of a dark spiritual thing going on in there to take each time you are there  down a different path and sooner or later you can’t relate to anyone going to church and reading their bible because you can’t compare it to the “fun” you thought you were having at the club.  It will take years before you wake up and you think why in the world did I think that was fun. For some it never happens, Only God can wake you up from the madness.  I was worried all the time about someone grabbing this or that snatching my purse, my earrings, robbing me, shooting, fighting, drunkenness, throwing up. Drugs everywhere what is the world was fun about that. Music has  been largely captured by Satan, I mean isn’t music his thing anyway. He is the master of all music so of course he would have great power in it. The music often glorifies vice (satan acting in a place of another) and destroys a desire for spiritual matters.  Music can have great power, *spiritual music* for me brings me to tears sometimes. I often have to lift my arms in praise, I have to pause and thank God for getting me through something. I forget this terrible moment in my life that God brought me through and when I hear this song, You have made me glad and I say to the Lord you are my shield, my strength, my portion, deliverer, my shelter, strong tower, My very present help In time of need. It hits me because at that darkest moment, he comes and rescues you at that last moment in time. Here he is to save you from whatever you are going through.  How can I want to listen to anything else. This is my feelings spiritually, Imagine not spiritual.  This is what music does to you. It enters the brain through the emotions, thus bypassing reasoning powers, It affects every function of the body, it can alter pulse, breath rates, and reflexes without the person realizing it, Syncopated dance rhythms alter moods and create a mild hypnosis in the listener, I got this from a pamphlet that I just so happen to be reading when I came across this response to my post. Wow. Without lyrics the music has the power to debase person’s feelings. Did you hear about those two Asian men who listen to hard metal and jumped out the window. Well one fell out and the other jumped out behind him.  Besides the bible tells you what is good and pure and holy think on these things, mediate on these things. Phillippians 4:8 Meditate on These Things -- 8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. 9 *The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you*
> 
> There are some things in The Bible that are explicitly stated and are much harder to debate. For instance, I still to this day don't understand how some ppl try to say Christianity should condone a homosexual lifestyle when The Bible explicitly states it is against it. But there are many things that are the opposite. Knowing the historical context of certain verses is critical to understanding them. I find that sometimes ppl quote verses by themselves but totally missed the context that verse was said in. And then. . .still. . .everyone doesn't view Scripture the same way.
> 
> This is true many people will view the bible in the way that makes it most acceptable to them. To their own shame.  You have to keep fighting for the goal without worry about what they are doing. I mean its different if they are in the church with you.  I would say something about it several times and then I will remove myself from that church and pray and ask God to find me a church that is truly trying to worship you.  I have been to many, many, many churches my entire life. I found emptiness in all of them until now.  I am learning now. I have not committed myself to any church or its teachings. I have not done that. I just go and sit in the pew for a few hours and go home. I do my own studies. I intend to study at the church but first I have to make sure they are teaching the truth by studying it myself. Whatever they teach me from the point where I decide to join I will measure it against the word of God and if its not correct then I say so.





blazingthru said:


> But how do we know if it’s someone’s personal interpretation unless we go back over the scriptures and examine it ourselves.  Scripture backs up scripture over and over again. So if someone takes a line and then run with it  would be easy to find out what it really meant, for example.   Most Christians take Act 10 as if God was saying they can eat pork and seafood and just stopping there. When God wasn’t talking about food at all.  *10* Then he ( peter) became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have *never* eaten anything common or unclean.” ( this also is important because this is years after Jesus has passed and he still is keeping the law and observing the Sabbath). 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “W*hat God has cleansed you must not call common.*” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again. Then we skip down to verse 24  and we have the clear meaning of what this vision is.  24 And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped _him._ 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man *common or unclean.*



Wow girl. . .this is a lot  

I'm making this a placeholder. . .I'm gonna try to read and respond (maybe a lil later but I'll come back I PROMISE lol  )


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## TrustMeLove (May 1, 2009)

I haven't seen the video, but from what some of you all are saying that certain folks are in it..than yes I can agree it is probably a bad video.

I love the song God in me. I am not going to watch the video so it doesn't mess up the song for me.

My friends and I love this song and rock out to it all types of crazy. What they are saying to me is...

_You see I have a nice car, live in a big house, able to give to whatever I want to support...of course you see me or know of me being at church or as a "Christian" and you think that all of this stuff has just come to me from what you've seen. But, trust when I get home and at church I am on my knees praying, I'm reading and studying my word. I'm singing etc... No I'm not on MLK and 35th preaching to the masses that's not my calling, but I have a deep relationship with God and these things are all blessings from him..NOT LUCK. _

You see this is what the song meant to me...about the world looking at you like you are lucky or just have it made naturally, but not understanding that they think you have it made ONLY because of God and not luck. That it is all because of the God in me.

I hope they and Kiki continue to make  music like this with Godly and word based messages. It's truly a blessing. I love to know I can rock out to these songs and not need the worldly songs to get "crunk" lol. I can skip the radio when I am tired of listening to Chris Tomlin or Byron Cage or Norman Hutchins..and turn this on just to have so hyped fun and still know that only those "good" things are permeating my windows.


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## hurricane (May 2, 2009)

MissNina said:


> I agree with the underlined. I still don't see how this passage says that you can't listen to secular music nor go to particular places. . .or that God is exclusive to anyone. I don't see the meaning which you inferred. . .but thanks for pointing them out to me. I appreciate you trying to help me understand where you're coming from even if we don't agree on certain things


_____________________________________________________________

*Oh, I didn't understand what you where saying. The scriptures refer to not mixing what is Holy with that of the world. My point was secular music has no place in worship. Sorry about the misunderstanding.*

*1 Cor 15: 33, Do not be decieved: evil company corrupts good habits.*

*I think we need our own thread. *


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## ANUBIS (May 2, 2009)

dont be so uptight and why are people sitting here juudging who should and shouldnt be in a video becase of what they do in their personal life??? God is the one to judge


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## PaperClip (May 2, 2009)

hurricane said:


> *My point was secular music has no place in worship. Sorry about the misunderstanding.*


 
The underlined begs the question: exactly what is secular music?

Further, exactly what is GOSPEL music?

What makes a song secular or gospel?

Artist: Who sings it?
Lyrics: What the song says?
Record label?

The anointing? Seriously? People have different interpretations/levels of discernment of what/who the anointing (really) is....


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## sunshinelove (May 2, 2009)

I've been jammin to the song but never peeped the vid. I thought it was a great vid sans those black glasses Tina had on...ugh! What is the hoop ha all about....I thinking they are proclaiming God's name. It's a message: "It's the God in me...why I may possess material things or things of this world...God has caused it all to happen, not me." That is the message...they weren't tryna say "OH I got this n I got that...like how it is in hiphop


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## hurricane (May 2, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> The underlined begs the question: exactly what is secular music?
> 
> Further, exactly what is GOSPEL music?
> 
> ...


 ___________________________________________________________

*Secular music promotes worldy things. I did not question their lyrics just the way they dress. It can give mixed signals. That is why I stated that you can not mix what is Holy with the world.*


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## PaperClip (May 2, 2009)

hurricane said:


> ___________________________________________________________
> 
> *Secular music promotes worldy things. I did not question their lyrics just the way they dress. It can give mixed signals. That is why I stated that you can not mix what is Holy with the world.*


 
I asked WHAT IS secular music.... not what it promotes. What are "worldly" things?

I'm not nit-picking. I'm asking for specificity. I am asking for definitions in order to generate parameters for conversation. This thread has been all over the place about WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, and HOW people and music and dress should be examined (notice I didn't say judged) in order to deem it gospel or secular, holy or profane, etc.

If such a definition is based on WHO, we (general use of we) get in trouble right away in terms of putting labels on people.

If such a definition is based on LYRICS, the book of Esther is in the Bible and NEVER MENTIONS "GOD" in the entire book.

If it is based on RECORD LABELS, it's clear that record labels have a financial agenda. Gospel music is the fourth-highest selling genre in music. That's huge.

There are some songs that would be defined as "secular" (meaning never played on a gospel station) that capture holiness SO MUCH MORE than a song placed in a gospel category (e.g., "Jesus Is Love" by the Commodores--on a R&B album!)

There are some songs that would be defined as "gospel" that are so theologically inaccurate it's RIDICULOUS, e.g., "I'm Climbing Up the Rough Side of the Mountain" YIKES!

Here's the better answer (for me): ANY SONG, MOVIE, POEM, SPOKEN WORD, SERMON, (gospel, secular, uncategorized, etc.), that points me and leads me to seek and serve and obey the LORD JESUS CHRIST is (spiritually) healthy for me to listen to.... Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

With that in mind, I no longer imprison myself to somebody's dress, somebody's associations (holy or otherwise), their conduct on or off the stage, etc. to determine if I should listen to their music.


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## p31woman (May 2, 2009)

I honestly dont see what's wrong with the song or video.

I love the song and the video matched the song.

If people are so obsessed with Hollywood and celebrities now, why not use that to try and reach and teach them about the goodness of God?

Everyone is not the same.  I don't think God would be shaking His finger at MaryMary for trying to reach those people who we have failed to reach and doing it in such a way that they understand but still get the message. 

If we constanly shun and judge people, how do you think we are gonna reach them?

I'll keep MaryMary in my prayers.  I'm excited about what this and other songs like it can do and who they can reach!


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## golden bronze (May 5, 2009)

The whole album had to "grow" on me. During Lent I could not listen to it for some reason. There are a few songs like "Get Up" and "Seattle" I like, but as a whole, I don't like it as much as the previous work.


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## hurricane (May 6, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I asked WHAT IS secular music.... not what it promotes. What are "worldly" things?
> 
> I'm not nit-picking. I'm asking for specificity. I am asking for definitions in order to generate parameters for conversation. This thread has been all over the place about WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, and HOW people and music and dress should be examined (notice I didn't say judged) in order to deem it gospel or secular, holy or profane, etc.
> 
> ...


___________________________________________________________

*Secular music promotes fleshly desires: Galatians 5: 19*

*Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, *

*idolatry, socery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissentions, heresies,*

*envy, murders, drunkenness, revelieries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.*

*Now we have secular artist like R.Kelly who sing about adultery, fornication and other things. Rap artist who promote fornication, sorcery ( drug use ), selfish ambitions ( getting money by any means necessary), Jamie Foxx has a song blame it on the alcohol. There are many songs that promote worldly things, which are of the flesh. This can also be called being carnally minded.*

*Songs that do not mention God but are positive in nature are inspirational.*

*Gospel music should promote the good news of Jesus Christ.*

*I did not question their lyrics, but their clothing can be questionable. Which can give off mixed signals. Hope that helps.*


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## blazingthru (May 6, 2009)

hurricane said:


> ___________________________________________________________
> *I did not question their lyrics, but their clothing can be questionable. Which can give off mixed signals. Hope that helps.*


 
I do. My daughter is very impressionable and thinks that God is going to bless her with diamonds and gold and a big car and house and so forth when those things are the things that the world runs after.  No I don't believe this promotes the spirit of God nor at any time do I feel bless hearing it. Nor do I want to lift my hands and praise.


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## LookingandListening (May 6, 2009)

My favorite line is..."What else do you think you see?"

It could only be God.


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## Shimmie (May 6, 2009)

hurricane said:


> ___________________________________________________________
> 
> *Secular music promotes fleshly desires: Galatians 5: 19*
> 
> ...


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## TrendySocialite (May 7, 2009)

I did not go through each page, but I hope someone posted the lyrics so we can discuss intelligently on what the lyrics are, not what we think we heard.

I actually used the lyrics to the song to talk to the youth at my church. My title was "It's the God in Me: Redefining Swagger"

Based on some of these responses here I'm sure some of you would disagree with what I said, but I broke down swagger as

S Smart (or scholarly)
W Well Rounded
A Anointed
G Gracious
G Gifted
E Eager
R Righteous

I told them it's up to us as Christians to redefine swagger and to know who and whose we are.

In my opinion, the song elicited the exact response Mary Mary was warning against in the song. People look at who's in the video, what they are wearing, how much many they spent rather than listening to the lyrics. Like KiKi says in the song "What is it you THINK you see?"

And honestly, I can understand these lyrics a lot better than some other gospel artists who holler and yell and do nothing but a bunch of runs in their songs.

I will never forget Yolanda Adams on the Stellar Awards one year saying to please pray for gospel artists like her, Kirk, Donnie, etc. because there is a lot of ministry that happens at the "secular" or "worldly" events that they participate in (the same ones church folk criticize them for attending). She said you have no idea how many times before she goes out on stage she is praying for people and leading them to Christ.

So once again like the lyrics say, "What is it you THINK you see? You don't know how much I prayed...don't know how much I gave, don't know how much I changed..."


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## TrendySocialite (May 7, 2009)

Here's my heart on stuff like this...

It frustrates me that we jump, holler and shout about the Great Commission, going into all the world and preach the gospel, but never want to go out in the world to do it.

Do we honestly expect for those living in darkness to come to us? I mean look at the posts in this forum about the hypocrisy and corruption going on in the church? Like the saying goes, "you (and your life) may be the only sermon some people hear."

I hear stories every day of people getting saved on the tennis courts, at work, at the gym. How crazy would we look if we said to them, "Well you need to wait until Sunday morning and come to my church and get saved."

What if someone in this Mary Mary video gave their life to the Lord? What if they looked at Mary Mary and realized that they could still have fun, dress nice (even if it's not your personal style) and love the Lord too?

The thing most people don't take into consideration is that if someone sees this video and decides to download it on iTunes, guess what happens? All these other gospel songs pop up that are similar...and guess what artists pop up? Fred Hammond, Marvin Sapp all of the people who some posters claim are more true to gospel music than Mary Mary. So that one song that people don't like could lead people to listen to other artists.

I don't propose to dictate how God saves people or uses others to lead people to Christ. I have enough to worry with keeping myself straight and doing those things God requires of me.


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## momi (May 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Here's my heart on stuff like this...
> 
> It frustrates me that we jump, holler and shout about the Great Commission, going into all the world and preach the gospel, but never want to go out in the world to do it.
> 
> ...


 

We are to go out into the world and reach the lost yes - but while we are out there we are not to conform to their ways.  Have you noticed, the more popularity a gospel singer gains the more they begin the look like "the world", when in fact the opposite should happen.  The closer we draw to Christ the more we should be willing to give up for him if necessary.
The gospel is - take up our cross and follow him.  That means we will have to leave some things behind.  IMHO - songs like this give folks the impression that they can come to Christ and bring all of their ways with them.  This is not the case and probably the reason that the church lacks power.


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## Laela (May 16, 2009)

I agree with Steve Harvey on this one.. lol  We're supposed to be a peculiar people, but not _that _kind of peculiar --  like half the artists in that video.


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## Ithacagurl (May 28, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Here's my heart on stuff like this...
> 
> It frustrates me that we jump, holler and shout about the Great Commission, going into all the world and preach the gospel, but never want to go out in the world to do it.
> 
> ...


 

I agree with your perspective, sound logic.


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## Mrs.TheBronx (May 28, 2009)

I feel ya! AMEN!!!



arr1216 said:


> Here's my heart on stuff like this...
> 
> It frustrates me that we jump, holler and shout about the Great Commission, going into all the world and preach the gospel, but never want to go out in the world to do it.
> 
> ...


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## divya (May 28, 2009)

momi said:


> We are to go out into the world and reach the lost yes - but while we are out there we are not to conform to their ways.  Have you noticed, the more popularity a gospel singer gains the more they begin the look like "the world", when in fact the opposite should happen.  The closer we draw to Christ the more we should be willing to give up for him if necessary.
> The gospel is - take up our cross and follow him.  That means we will have to leave some things behind.  IMHO - songs like this give folks the impression that they can come to Christ and bring all of their ways with them.  This is not the case and probably the reason that the church lacks power.



Exactly. 

*1 John 2:15-17* (KJV) -_ Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever._

*Matthew 6:24* - _No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon._


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## Jazzmommy (May 28, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Here's my heart on stuff like this...
> 
> It frustrates me that we jump, holler and shout about the Great Commission, going into all the world and preach the gospel, but never want to go out in the world to do it.
> 
> ...


 
Well said....


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## PrissyMiss (May 29, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the root of the problem is that some people, including myself, feel that people are being judgmental. Do you guys understand that to struggling believers and non believers out there this is a huge turn-off?  Who wants to be a Christian when there are so many doggone rules. And let's just keep it real, most of these rules are man-made and personal preferences.
We as believers are to present ourselves in a Godly manner, and whether people on this forum realize it or not, it has more to do with the inside than the outside. No matter where I go, who I'm with, people always notice there is something different about me, and that is simply because God lives within me and he shines. I think Christians should be more concerned about what is coming out of our mouths than the fashion choices we make. JMHO.


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## PrissyMiss (May 29, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Here's my heart on stuff like this...
> 
> It frustrates me that we jump, holler and shout about the Great Commission, going into all the world and preach the gospel, but never want to go out in the world to do it.
> 
> ...



ITA. Man , can't wait until that thanks button gets here.


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## divya (May 29, 2009)

qt_pie said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the root of the problem is that some people, including myself, feel that people are being judgmental. Do you guys understand that to struggling believers and non believers out there this is a huge turn-off?  Who wants to be a Christian when there are so many doggone rules. And let's just keep it real, most of these rules are man-made and personal preferences.
> We as believers are to present ourselves in a Godly manner, and whether people on this forum realize it or not, it has more to do with the inside than the outside. No matter where I go, who I'm with, people always notice there is something different about me, and that is simply because God lives within me and he shines. I think Christians should be more concerned about what is coming out of our mouths than the fashion choices we make. JMHO.



But why do many people _automatically_ assume that others are being judgmental when the Holy Scriptures gives us guidance about our appearance? Doesn't what is inside reflect on the outside? When God lives within us, it affects everything we do.

*1 Timothy 2:9-10* - _In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works._

*1 Peter 3:3-5 *- _Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:_

God gives us counsel or rules for our own good...because He loves us.  I am not perfect, so I appreciate the loving encouragement given by my sisters in Christ, that helps me to live a life that is pleasing to the Lord. 

Just offering another perspective...


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## Shimmie (May 29, 2009)

momi said:


> We are to go out into the world and reach the lost yes - but while we are out there we are not to conform to their ways. Have you noticed, the more popularity a gospel singer gains the more they begin the look like "the world", when in fact the opposite should happen. The closer we draw to Christ the more we should be willing to give up for him if necessary.
> 
> The gospel is - take up our cross and follow him. That means we will have to leave some things behind. IMHO - songs like this give folks the impression that they can come to Christ and bring all of their ways with them. This is not the case and probably the reason that the church lacks power.


 
thanks Momi.    Exactly!   'We are not to conform to this world.'   It takes more than 'confessing'  Jesus is Lord.   We have to 'show' it.  And if it means not showing your cleavage than so be it.  

This picture below speaks volumes.   And if folks don't agree with me, I could care less.  If I were dressed like this, trying to talk Jesus to someone, they would NOT take me seriously.   

This is Mary Mary's trademark and it's simply inappropriate as a Christian when ministering or talking Christianity.   This is a very recent photo; they are not babes in Christ and it's not about bringing in the lost to dress like this way.  Christians do not show out like this. Would anyone go to Church like this?   

It's giving the wrong message to women about modesty.  If they want to dress this way privately and at home with family and close friends, that's their private business.   But to put out there for the entire world to see is something all together wrong.  

http://thethingsilikeaboutme265.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/mary-mary-on-the-cover-of-jet-magazine/







Even the world has 'dress codes' and if I were to walk into my office with a low cut blouse or dress or a garment that was too fitting, I'd be sent home with a reprimand and to change my garments for something more appropriate. 

What's the sacrifice and also how does dressing appropriately stop someone in the world from coming to Jesus?


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## Shimmie (May 29, 2009)

divya said:


> *But why do many people automatically assume that others are being judgmental when the Holy Scriptures gives us guidance about our appearance? Doesn't what is inside reflect on the outside? When God lives within us, it affects everything we do.*
> 
> *1 Timothy 2:9-10* - _In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works._
> 
> ...


Excellent perspective...


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## PrissyMiss (May 29, 2009)

Divya,

I get that persepective,however, 1 Samuel 16:7 says " The Lord does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the *outward* appearance, but the Lord looks at the *heart*."

Since we are Christians we are to strive to see things through the eyes of Christ. Instead of focusing on what they are wearing, pay more attention to the message they are trying to convey. Anything otherwise, imo, is judging and being condemning.


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## PrissyMiss (May 29, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> This is Mary Mary's trademark and it's simply inappropriate as a Christian when ministering or talking Christianity.   This is a very recent photo; they are not babes in Christ and it's not about bringing in the lost to dress like this way.  Christians do not show out like this. Would anyone go to Church like this?  QUOTE]
> 
> Shimmie,
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (May 29, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Here's my heart on stuff like this...
> 
> It frustrates me that we jump, holler and shout about the Great Commission, going into all the world and preach the gospel, but never want to go out in the world to do it.
> 
> ...


One of the saddest things which has happened in Christianity is the watering down, the pollution, the disarming compromise of our faith.  

There is a 'difference' in the way we as Christians are to dress or rather present ourselves to the world.  

*Muslims *don't have a problem getting 'recruits' and they do not show cleavage and wear tight jeans.  As a matter of fact they are covered / draped from head to toe. 

*Mormons* don't have a problem getting 'recruits' and their dress code is quite modest.  They don't dare not wear a tie and shirt and/or suit when coming to witness their faith.  The women are dressed up to date, but yet in modesty.  No cleavage. 

*Jehovah's Witnesses* don't have a problem getting 'recruits' and they too go out into the world, do not sit home on their bottoms, and yet they dress in modern day, yet modest apparel.   

NOW... what's the problem with Christians who think they are not just as effective if not even more?    

Do we not have the same Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead, dwelling within us?  

Do we not have the power of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into all truth and to speak through us the right message at the right time to the right individual seeking for Christ?

Is it not the Holy Spirit who draws men in and not the spirit of the world?  

What are we weakening our witness to Christ?   Since when do we bow down to Baal and use his draw and not the draw of God Himself?

I'm making a very clear point here.   Since when have we lost our power and effectiveness to draw those to Christ whom we have been sent to?  

It is mentioned in another post about those who struggle and they blame it on strick rules and regulations of the Church.

Since when is it a struggle to give up what one knows is wrong, unless they choose not to give it up?   They love what they struggle with more than Jesus.   

We need rules.  In this life and in this world of corruption, we need rules.  How we present ourselves in public is among them, Christianity or not Christianity, there is a dress code for it denotes conduct and who/what we represent.  Be it a company, corporation, or Church, the way we dress speaks volumes and judgment is automatic, period.  

One of the most destructive things in Christianity is allowing the 'world' or those who 'still' maintain the world's mindset to represent the Church.

If folks want Jesus, they will surrender 'all.'  Even the way they dress in public.


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## Shimmie (May 29, 2009)

qt_pie said:


> Shimmie,
> 
> Yes if that's all they had to wear.
> 
> ...



Anyone can inspire, but does it bring about total change and total surrender to God?

What else are you compromising and calling it inspiring?   This mode of dress is not Biblical.  If they want to do this privately, than fine.  But to represent Christ, it doesn't.


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## PrissyMiss (May 29, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> qt_pie said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone can inspire, but does it bring about total change and total surrender to God.
> ...


----------



## PrissyMiss (May 29, 2009)

It is mentioned in another post about those who struggle and they blame it on strick rules and regulations of the Church.

Since when is it a struggle to give up what one knows is wrong, unless they choose not to give it up?   They love what they struggle with more than Jesus. [/QUOTE]

Not necessarily true. I'm not for sure how long you have been a Christian, but I am 100% sure that there is still a sin that you struggle with. And we all know that sin, know matter what the sin is, is hard to overcome. But through the love of Christ and the support of our brothers and sisters in Christ we can overcome it. Notice I said support and not judgment. 

Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."


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## Shimmie (May 29, 2009)

qt_pie said:


> Wowwwwww!!!! *Number one when you talk about Muslims and Jehovah Witnesses that is part of their religion. It is a personal preference. *
> Now to answer your question, I'm not comprising anything. I have completely surrendered to God, and if he had an issue with the way I dressed he would have convicted me. Just because you have an issue with something, doesn't make it wrong. Once again 1 Samuel 16:7 says "The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
> 
> *So if God almighty can ignore a man's outward appearance, why can't you?*
> ...


It is also an integeral part of our 'Faith' as Christians to dress in modest apparel. 

When God spoke of the outter appearance, He was speaking of David's size and being the younger brother.   Out of all of Jesse's older sons to be annointed as the next King of Israel, David the younger and smaller was chosen.   His clothing wasn't the issue and I can guarantee you that David was properly clothed. 

God has always made it perfectly clear about our apparel.   Therefore that scripture is not a free pass to show cleavage...publicly and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ.   You know as well as I do that if the dress code that Mary Mary presents were to be upon the Altar of God ministering God's word, that it would be totally and completely out of order.   How we dress and where we wear certain garments does indeed matter.   

Jesus made it plain that if the world finds nothing wrong with you, than there's a serious problem.   Now why wouldn't the world applaude you for telling them it's okay to stay where they are?  That they have no need of change, but to conform Jesus to them, rather than to conform to Him? 

I don't have a problem with trendy, but cover your boobs and your butt.  It's totally inappropriate to _show out_ and be a distraction to men who truly need to keep their focus on being Holy.   Why distract their total surrender of their flesh to the Lord, by having flesh all up in their faces?  What kind of Godly witness is that?  It judges itsself.   People aren't fools, they know Godly from UnGodly appearances.   Something in this clock (worldly mindset) is ticking in the wrong direction and denoting the wrong time. 

Here's the problem and it's not judgment.  The problem is the lax and lazy attitudes of those not making the ultimate sacrifice of being what we are called to.  Godly means looking Godly and wearing Godly apparel.   The Church should be a lot stronger than it is.  But it's weak and stupid.  Weak and stupid in the sense where any and all is allowed.  We have Chrisitians claiming to be Christians yet they have set their minds to agree with the world's view and not God's ordained view. 

We can still be trendy and not look like we've giving it up to the highest bidder.   There are things that a woman should only wear for her husband and in the privacy of her life, not the public and especially in the world's view and preaching Jesus is their Lord.   The same goes for men.  They too, have gone to extremes in the dress codes and it's not necessary.  

If you really and truly are out to reach those for Jesus Christ, you don't have to expose yourself.  It's unnecessary.   When folks dress like this, it's about 'them' and their 'flesh', it has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or the Holy Spirit.  

There is a 'place' for dressing this way and it's not in the Church.    It is not a good representation of it.  It's out of order.  They know better and so do you and everyone else.   When we Minister, cover it up.


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## Shimmie (May 29, 2009)

qt_pie said:


> Not necessarily true. I'm not for sure how long you have been a Christian, but I am 100% sure that there is still a sin that you struggle with. And we all know that sin, know matter what the sin is, is hard to overcome. But through the love of Christ and the support of our brothers and sisters in Christ we can overcome it. Notice I said support and not judgment.
> 
> Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."


 
Sounds like you've made a judgement...too.


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## divya (May 29, 2009)

qt_pie said:


> Divya,
> 
> I get that persepective,however, 1 Samuel 16:7 says " The Lord does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the *outward* appearance, but the Lord looks at the *heart*."
> 
> Since we are Christians we are to strive to see things through the eyes of Christ. Instead of focusing on what they are wearing, pay more attention to the message they are trying to convey. Anything otherwise, imo, is judging and being condemning.



The Scriptures do speak directly to this issue.  However, we also have to make sure that all verses are understood in context. The verse in 1 Samuel 16 is dealing with a separate issue. The whole chapter was dealing with the type of person God looked upon to be a king, not on modest dress. Modest dress is specifically addressed in the Scriptures mentioned earlier - 1 Timothy 2:9-10 and 1 Peter 3:3-5.  

As Christians, we are supposed to reflect Christ and be a witness to others. Others see the way we dress, talk, and walk. If we want to be like Jesus, we should strive to make sure that all we do is acceptable in His sight. 

Bless.


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## divya (May 29, 2009)

qt_pie said:


> Wowwwwww!!!! Number one when you talk about Muslims and Jehovah Witnesses that is part of their religion. It is a _personal preference_.
> 
> Now to answer your question, I'm not comprising anything. I have completely surrendered to God, and  if he had an issue with the way I dressed he would have convicted me. Just because you have an issue with something, doesn't make it wrong. Once again 1 Samuel 16:7 says "The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
> *
> ...



With love qt pie...

God does put emphasis on modesty. Further, we all have to be very careful in application of Scriptures to different issues. Again, 1 Samuel 16 deals with who God uses for His purposes. Not because we think by looking at someone, that they may better/worse for a certain job does not mean God cannot use them in their position. This is definitely true.  

BUT that is not an issue of modest dress. Verses in the Bible do not contradict each other. It's so important to make sure that we don't apply verses in one way, so that they fall in contradiction with other parts of the Word. If one states that this verse means that God is not concerned with the way we dress as Christians, then that one is in essence saying that 1 Samuel 16 contradicts with 1 Timothy 2:9-10 and 1 Peter 3:3-5. These verses are certainly not in contradiction with each other at all. 

Now I'm not accusing you of doing so intentionally at all, but just want to make sure that we are understanding the Scriptures.


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## divya (May 29, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> It is also an integeral part of our 'Faith' as Christians to dress in modest apparel.
> 
> *When God spoke of the outter appearance, He was speaking of David's size and being the younger brother.   Out of all of Jesse's older sons to be annointed as the next King of Israel, David the younger and smaller was chosen.   His clothing wasn't the issue and I can guarantee you that David was properly clothed.
> 
> ...



Amen! Well said.


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## Hotmommak (May 30, 2009)

I feel that, to some extent, modesty is a personal conviction, but we do all have standards.  Overly tight clothing, exposed breasts, etc. are not modest to the world or to the church.  In high school, I was involved in an apostolic church.  I only work LONG dresses.  I recall one time, a lady I was in the praise group with wore a dress that was a little past her knees, and she was rebuked.  The dress was not tight, and I don't think she was being rebellious (but I don't  know, of course).  Also, once, I bought my first "grown up" church outfit.  It was a black, pink, and white plaid jacket.  I wore it with a white blouse and a black skirt.  I was taken to the side and told that my JACKET was too tight!  I couldn't believe it!  I was so hurt, upset, and confused!  I was like 16, and I felt so guilty.  I look back now, and I'm even more hurt b/c nothing was wrong with my jacket!  I also remember the people who DID wear things that were not considered modest by the church's standards.


Anyway, on to the song/video.  I watched the video for the first time today, and  I can't really say that I was surprised.  I have generally liked mary mary, but when I heard this song...let's just say it matched the video.  I am not "in church" right now, so I feel that I can speak from the "worldly" prospective (for lack of a better phrase).  This song has a nice beat and is catchy, but it doesn't really sound christian.  When I was in church, had this song come out, I would have not listened to it.  I say this b/c I reminds me of Trinitee 5:7 and Kirk Franklin...both of whom I did not listen to while in church.  I don't know...reminded me too much of the world.

On the other hand, a good friend of mine is VERY involved in her church, as is her husband.  They are both very contemporary/trendy people.  I don't know much about her husband, but I know that she listens to some secular artists, and she also enjoys trinitee 5:7.  I would NEVER  question her devotion to God, but I can't help but wonder if it's b/c of where I stand right now.  

It really bothers me when the lines between Christianity and the World are blurred.  I think that's why I'm where I am right now.  The lines got blurred, and it really affected my walk and everything I THOUGH I believed.  I've never doubted God, but I guess I have trust issues...anyway.  I feel like there's a fine line btw reaching out and conforming.  

I understand that Christians are suppose to reach out to the world, but that doesn't mean BECOMING the world.  I heard someone say that Christ spoke the language of the people so it was okay for Tyler Perry to say some "mild profanity" b/c that's what the world does.  I don't buy that.  I know that's another thread, so I'll leave it at that!


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## momi (May 30, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> It is also an integeral part of our 'Faith' as Christians to dress in modest apparel.
> 
> When God spoke of the outter appearance, He was speaking of David's size and being the younger brother. Out of all of Jesse's older sons to be annointed as the next King of Israel, David the younger and smaller was chosen. His clothing wasn't the issue and I can guarantee you that David was properly clothed.
> 
> ...


 

Where is that thanks when you need it?????


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## momi (May 30, 2009)

divya said:


> With love qt pie...
> 
> God does put emphasis on modesty. Further, we all have to be very careful in application of Scriptures to different issues. Again, 1 Samuel 16 deals with who God uses for His purposes. Not because we think by looking at someone, that they may better/worse for a certain job does not mean God cannot use them in their position. This is definitely true.
> 
> ...


 

Very succinct observation.  One simply cannot agrue with scripture.


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## PrissyMiss (May 30, 2009)

Hotmommak said:


> I feel that, to some extent, modesty is a personal conviction, but we do all have standards.  Overly tight clothing, exposed breasts, etc. are not modest to the world or to the church.  In high school, I was involved in an apostolic church.  I only work LONG dresses.  I recall one time, a lady I was in the praise group with wore a dress that was a little past her knees, and she was rebuked.  The dress was not tight, and I don't think she was being rebellious (but I don't  know, of course).  Also, once, I bought my first "grown up" church outfit.  It was a black, pink, and white plaid jacket.  I wore it with a white blouse and a black skirt.  I was taken to the side and told that my JACKET was too tight!  I couldn't believe it!  I was so hurt, upset, and confused!  I was like 16, and I felt so guilty.  I look back now, and I'm even more hurt b/c nothing was wrong with my jacket!  I also remember the people who DID wear things that were not considered modest by the church's standards.
> 
> 
> Anyway, on to the song/video.  I watched the video for the first time today, and  I can't really say that I was surprised.  I have generally liked Mary Mary, but when I heard this song...let's just say it matched the video.  I am not "in church" right now, so I feel that I can speak from the "worldly" prospective (for lack of a better phrase).  This song has a nice beat and is catchy, but it doesn't really sound Christian.  When I was in church, had this song come out, I would have not listened to it.  I say this b/c I reminds me of Trinitee 5:7 and Kirk Franklin...both of whom I did not listen to while in church.  I don't know...reminded me too much of the world.
> ...


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## PrissyMiss (May 30, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> It is also an integeral part of our 'Faith' as Christians to dress in modest apparel.
> 
> When God spoke of the outter appearance, He was speaking of David's size and being the younger brother.   Out of all of Jesse's older sons to be annointed as the next King of Israel, David the younger and smaller was chosen.   His clothing wasn't the issue and I can guarantee you that David was properly clothed.
> 
> ...



Shimmie ITA with how you feel and where you are coming from? The weird thing is that we feel the exact same way when it comes to representing God, but the point that I was making is that deeming what is sexy is subjective. It depends on your age, your upbringing, and religion.
Now, to me it is not sexy nor is it showing to much skin. However, I will say this, if it was to be worn to church they would probably need to put a blazer on. But that connects with how I was raised. I was raised to believe that you do not wear shorts to church nor do you wear anything sleeveless. Once again, what is considered to be too tight or too sexy is subjective.


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## PrissyMiss (May 30, 2009)

divya said:


> With love qt pie...
> 
> God does put emphasis on modesty. Further, we all have to be very careful in application of Scriptures to different issues. Again, 1 Samuel 16 deals with who God uses for His purposes. Not because we think by looking at someone, that they may better/worse for a certain job does not mean God cannot use them in their position. This is definitely true.
> 
> ...



I did not use that scripture in reference to it being okay to lead God's sheep looking like a hooker. Lol. I agree that when you step into a leadership postion you have to be careful of how you present yourself. I use that scripture to show how sometimes as Christian we are too focused on one thing and not enough on the other. I was more offended that they put secular artist in the video, and created a concept that had nothing to do with the message trying to be conveyed. Not to mention, I don't agree with the message behind the video.


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## momi (May 30, 2009)

Hotmommak said:


> I feel that, to some extent, modesty is a personal conviction, but we do all have standards.  Overly tight clothing, exposed breasts, etc. are not modest to the world or to the church.  In high school, I was involved in an apostolic church.  I only work LONG dresses.  I recall one time, a lady I was in the praise group with wore a dress that was a little past her knees, and she was rebuked.  The dress was not tight, and I don't think she was being rebellious (but I don't  know, of course).  Also, once, I bought my first "grown up" church outfit.  It was a black, pink, and white plaid jacket.  I wore it with a white blouse and a black skirt.  I was taken to the side and told that my JACKET was too tight!  I couldn't believe it!  I was so hurt, upset, and confused!  I was like 16, and I felt so guilty.  I look back now, and I'm even more hurt b/c nothing was wrong with my jacket!  I also remember the people who DID wear things that were not considered modest by the church's standards.
> 
> 
> Anyway, on to the song/video.  I watched the video for the first time today, and  I can't really say that I was surprised.  I have generally liked mary mary, but when I heard this song...let's just say it matched the video.  I am not "in church" right now, so I feel that I can speak from the "worldly" prospective (for lack of a better phrase).  This song has a nice beat and is catchy, but it doesn't really sound christian.  When I was in church, had this song come out, I would have not listened to it.  I say this b/c I reminds me of Trinitee 5:7 and Kirk Franklin...both of whom I did not listen to while in church.  I don't know...reminded me too much of the world.
> ...



I have truly enjoyed reading your post, especially your personal reflections. I pray that you are able to find yourself where God wants you to be. I can definitely relate as I had a similar experience in my walk about Twelve years ago. I just scrapped what I'd always been brought up to believe and started over using the bible as my guide. 

Thanks again for sharing.


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## Shimmie (May 30, 2009)

qt_pie said:


> Shimmie ITA with how you feel and where you are coming from? The weird thing is that we feel the exact same way when it comes to representing God, but the point that I was making is that deeming what is sexy is subjective. It depends on your age, your upbringing, and religion.
> 
> Now, to me it is not sexy nor is it showing to much skin. However, I will say this, if it was to be worn to church they would probably need to put a blazer on. But that connects with how I was raised. I was raised to believe that you do not wear shorts to church nor do you wear anything sleeveless. Once again, what is considered to be too tight or too sexy is subjective.


qt_pie, I owe you an apology for misunderstanding, and I mean this from my heart. 

BTW: I have trendy items too... :blush3:.  I just don't wear them when I'm in Ministry.  

BTW 2:    I agree with the Blazer, but it would have to button up the the neck........still too much cleavage exposed for Church or representing Jesus. 

BTW 3:  Mary, Mary can't seem to win with me...   It's just that every time I see them they're always wearing something that's too tight, too low, and not right and it's just not ........... right.    It gives the wrong image of Christian women.

BTW 4:  Have a blessed and wonderful weekend.   :Rose:


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## Shimmie (May 30, 2009)

momi said:


> Where is that thanks when you need it?????


 

I'm innocent this time...   I didn't steal it.


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## sylver2 (May 30, 2009)

first 'gospel' song i ever had on repeat...
grew on me..love it! caught my attention..uplifting and upbeat and true


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## PrissyMiss (May 30, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> qt_pie, I owe you an apology for misunderstanding, and I mean this from my heart.
> 
> BTW: I have trendy items too... :blush3:.  I just don't wear them when I'm in Ministry.
> 
> ...



Aww thank you Shimmie: 
BTW I saw the first group of pictures you posted, I think it was you, and I agree that they do dress inappropriate sometimes. You have a blessed and wonderful weekend too.


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## Shimmie (May 30, 2009)

qt_pie said:


> Aww thank you Shimmie:
> BTW I saw the first group of pictures you posted, I think it was you, and I agree that they do dress inappropriate sometimes. You have a blessed and wonderful weekend too.


No offense at all... 

I'm a _'fireball'_ qt_pie.  I have a beautiful daughter, just imagine the _'fire'_ I gave her as a teen.


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## divya (May 31, 2009)

qt_pie said:


> I did not use that scripture in reference to it being okay to lead God's sheep looking like a hooker. Lol. I agree that when you step into a leadership postion you have to be careful of how you present yourself. I use that scripture to show how sometimes as Christian we are too focused on one thing and not enough on the other. I was more offended that they put secular artist in the video, and created a concept that had nothing to do with the message trying to be conveyed. Not to mention, I don't agree with the message behind the video.



Understood, although one can still be dressed inappropriately even without looking like hooker. Not sure if anyone's focus more or less on the clothing, but it simply seems to be the most contested issue in this thread. But beyond that...I agree that the secular artist appearances are problematic.  Overall, the mixed message of the video on a whole is a serious issue. As Christians, we have a mission to spread the truth to the whole world and have to live it.


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## Choclatcotton (Jun 7, 2009)

Yea shall know them by their fruit


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## godsflowerrr (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't like the vid at all ...what does this video have to do with the message of the song???? Nothing........I don't get it..........it just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.


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## Laela (Jun 9, 2009)

Hi, qt_pie, 

Concerning Rules: Let's not forget that Bible itself is a book of Rules. There are Biblical references on how God tells his people to conduct themselves:

*Titus 2 *(the whole chapter) is a good one.

A Christian's job is to speak out for sound doctrine. Why is it every time a Christian speaks up, they are being "judgmental"?

Concerning Mary, Mary, they themselves have said they are saved: http://www.gospelflava.com/articles/marymary2.html
I don't think anyone here is questioning whether they are saved or not, but some of us are merely observing their FRUIT - or actions. There's a big difference. IMO, this video may as well be a video of BeBe and CeCe doing a duet featuring Lil Wayne and Jay-Z. BeBe and CeCe have also said they are saved.  So it would be a very mixed message.

Is is a good thing to be Soulful, Saved AND Sexy..? I don't agree that a saved, married woman needs to be Sexy for anyone but her husband! So there are mixed messages here, too...  

I agree with you that it's what's on the inside that matters most. But some times, people take this too lightly or with a grain of salt or worse yet -- as an excuse to do what they want to do. When God is working on us and when we grow in him, what's on the outside eventually will reflect what's on the inside. The Holy Spirit is who keeps us in line in everything that we do and that's an individual thing.





qt_pie said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the root of the problem is that some people, including myself, feel that people are being judgmental. Do you guys understand that to struggling believers and non believers out there this is a huge turn-off?  Who wants to be a Christian when there are so many doggone rules. And let's just keep it real, most of these rules are man-made and personal preferences.
> We as believers are to present ourselves in a *Godly manner, and whether people on this forum realize it or not, it has more to do with the inside than the outside.* No matter where I go, who I'm with, people always notice there is something different about me, and that is simply because God lives within me and he shines. I think Christians should be more concerned about what is coming out of our mouths than the fashion choices we make. JMHO.


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## inthepink (Jun 13, 2009)

Laela said:


> Hi, qt_pie,
> 
> Concerning Rules: Let's not forget that Bible itself is a book of Rules. There are Biblical references on how God tells his people to conduct themselves:
> 
> ...




This is such a great point all around.


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## blazingthru (Jun 14, 2009)

I am learning to ask myself this question if Jesus was in the audience would I do this or that. If Jesus came to my house would I watch this or that or listen to this or that. Because you know if your saved you have angels with you 24/7 what are you showing them about yourself. All of our lives are examine, if we say we are children of God then we are obedient to his word and won't cause others to stumble go out of our way to make sure we don't cause others to fall. Can you imagine the men that were struggling watching these two woman- I like mary, mary i thought they were humble and gifted singers and their voices are still a blessing but their attitude about serving God has changed and it shows in the video its no longer about serving God its about serving the people and giving them what they want to hear. I feel sad for anyone that is about serving the people and not putting the Lord first. In all that we do let it be pleasing to the Lord.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Jun 14, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I dont like the video because it just looks dumb but I love the song. The video is a bit weird with the type secular artist as well. But they have said (and say) the same thing Kirk, LeCrae, Tye Tribbett. I do believe in contextualizing the gospel and how when deliever the message (meaning using some cultural standards to deliever the message well keeping the gospel the same). The choice of artist in the video was not very good at all but I have no problem with the song.



My hs bestie is so smart... As a musician, I understand the issue that is at hand here. Mary Mary is not just a music group, they are a business, and their business is bringing people the gospel through music. Just like every business has to change their marketing strategy, so do musicians. I think we should all just be happy that they didn't go the secular route where they would get more money and acceptance and support them and buy their CD. Nobody on this thread could do what they do, and if they could they would've done it already, and "better." This is why I can't stand Christians, they have to pick apart everything. Just be satisfied and listen to what God is telling you personally, don't worry about everyone else. And if you are too nosey to do that, think about how to lift your fellow Christian up rather than finding a way to judge.


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## deltagyrl (Jun 14, 2009)

Happened upon this thread and, wow.



James Cleveland sang modest songs but was *allegedly* a notorious pedophile so _modesty_ can't be the marker for who's a real christian.

Bobby Jones is as sugary as they come but...

Steve Harvey cusses up a STORM in his comedy shows but I don't see any protest marches when he hosts those gospel shows on BET.  Matter of fact, I'm sure most have watched it.

I love the song and am thankful that Mary, Mary reached out to those who are put off by hypocritical church folx and their interpretation of how to be holy.  

There is more than one way to praise God, people.


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## Shimmie (Mar 17, 2012)

blazingthru said:


> *I am learning to ask myself this question if Jesus was in the audience would I do this or that. *
> 
> If Jesus came to my house would I watch this or that or listen to this or that. Because you know if your saved you have angels with you 24/7 what are you showing them about yourself.
> 
> ...



blazingthru...

Your entire post... says it all.   

I truly believe that when 'entertainers' dress like the world, that they are wearing just what they 'LIKE' and want to wear... period.    If they didn't like it, they wouldn't wear it.       

It's not about trying to gain the hearts of others, it's about what they want  to wear and now they have an audience to show it off to.    

They're not fooling anyone.      CeCe Winans doesn't dress that way and she is bringing the hearts of multiple thousands to the Lord.  And there are many more like her. . . 

Alvin Slaughter, Ron Kenoly, Brian Duncan, Steven Curtis Chapman, Royal Taylor, Chris Tomlin, his wife Christy Nockels; Dennis Jernigan, Natalie Grant....

So many more...

People's lives and behaviours change to the heart of God the Father.


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## Shimmie (Mar 17, 2012)

deltagyrl said:


> Happened upon this thread and, wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bobby Jones and Steve Harvey are still in the world... these examples don't count... 

James Cleveland... doesn't justify 'Mary Mary's presentation...


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