# Women in the pulpit



## Zeal (May 22, 2006)

This is touchy subject. Everyone be kind to one another when expressing your feelings/doctrines.

The question is, Do you support women Pastors/preachers and/or deacons? If not why?


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## MrsQueeny (May 22, 2006)

Yes because I am a minister.  I "know" that I was called by GOD and I will have to give an account to HIM and HIM alone if I do not do what is required of me.  I don't believe the GOD I love and serve would call me and bless me if HE did not want me to preach.  I have more to say but I will just say that I ran from my calling for awhile because I too thought women were not supposed to preach because of the things I heard.  Then GOD gave me a wake up call and basically said "I" called you not man, and I listened.  Take care Q


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## victorious (May 22, 2006)

If God didn't want women in leadership, Deborah wouldn't have been a judge over Israel (my opinion).

ETA: The Samaritan woman preached to men after she encountered Jesus at the well.


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## sunnyjohn (May 22, 2006)

I was raised in a society were the church is very patriarchial. Those old reverends didn't cotton to women and they didn't trust young people!  Our pastor was himself an oddball since he was the first to go to college, dvinity school and get Master's degree's in Theology and Education. His wife was educated, so I guess that clued him in to the true gifts of a praying woman.


Twenty-three years ago our pastor needed new deacons to help him because our church was growing so fast. He choose the 12 best people in the congregation. 8 of them were women 4 of them were men. They were "ordained" deacons and deaconesses during our church's fourth anniversary service. My mother was one of them. My mum did not have much formal education so this was a great honor for her.

Pastor used his 12 deacons/ deaconesses to break the church into small groups that could met, pray, study and take care of each others needs, a radical idea in 1983. Because of the small group approach, folks loved attending our church and we grew. Members liked knowing that someone was just a call away. Our pastor also did not get burntout and frazzled since he had help.

All of them would preach and do other duties as assigned, the women included. Boy could my mum and those other ladies preach! WHOOWEE!


Those men and women have served with distinction for all those years. Many times we would go to other churches and the ladies would not be recognized, but they never kicked up a fuss. My mum always said that her service was for the Lord and the honor was do HIM not her.

I have no problem with it, because I have seen what a real women of God who respects her authority and honours her calling with dignity and humility can do.


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## Zeal (May 22, 2006)

I posted this poll, as we have women deacons in our Church.  I had a discussion this morning where as I had a program from my Church that I was showing someone.  He was looking at a picture of the *deaconesses.  *Is that a word?  Any who, I then stated, "we also have female deacons", he proceeded to correct me and say deconess, I said again, Deacons, he said again deconess.  I then said I know what I am saying we have femaile Decons.  Then I said if a woman can preach, why can't she be a Decon.  He says she can't.  I try my best not to get into these types of discussions.

I have learned to deal with certain behaviors.  Growing up loving the Lord and saved.  It was assumed that I wasn't because I wore pants.  My denomination is baptist.  That is not what saved me.  The blood of Jesus saved me.  I say that to say this my paternal grandmother was another denominatioin where they did not believe in pants, jewelry, make up, or women preachers, if you head was no covered you could not pray, if you did not posses the gift of speaking in tongues *in public* we won't go there. You were not saved. And women preachers that was a big NO NO. Sorry, I jsut had a flash back.

My sister's best friend is an Associate Pastor/minister at our chruch. I just wanted to know other's views.

If possible could you all provide back up scriptures.  I will also research.


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## victorious (May 22, 2006)

- Deborah, the wife, prophetess and judge (Judges, chapters 4 and 5)
- The Samaritan woman at the well (St. John 4:5-30)

This was interesting to read also:  
_Was Paul For or Against Women in Ministry?_
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/200102/082_paul.cfm


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## sunnyjohn (May 22, 2006)

Zeal a quick Question...

So the guy you were talking to was saying that he won't call the womens deacons but deaconesses because they are not the same as the deacons by virtue of being women?

In my church (which I described above)  the term deacon/ deaconess interchangeable. It was the same as saying  stewardess/ steward or postmaster/postmistress. It was the 70's and 80's so the gender naming issue was still in its infancy.

They had the same duties and responsabilities. Male or female all could preach or teach.

My church was Baptist to. The other Baptist churches weren't to keen on our "female deacons."

Soemtimes I wish Paul woulda' been more specific when he had Timothy and those other folks transcribing his letters! Dem dern folks in Galatia, Ephesus and Corinth dun cause a lot of folks to scratch their head and go into prayer, study and fasting!


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## Zeal (May 22, 2006)

sunnyjohn said:
			
		

> Zeal a quick Question...
> 
> So the guy you were talking to was saying that he won't call the womens deacons but deaconesses because they are not the same as the deacons by virtue of being women?
> 
> ...


 

Me too.



			
				victorious said:
			
		

> - Deborah, the wife, prophetess and judge (Judges, chapters 4 and 5)
> - The Samaritan woman at the well (St. John 4:5-30)
> 
> This was interesting to read also:
> ...


 
Thank you victorious.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (May 23, 2006)

victorious said:
			
		

> - Deborah, the wife, prophetess and judge (Judges, chapters 4 and 5)
> - The Samaritan woman at the well (St. John 4:5-30)
> 
> This was interesting to read also:
> ...




OOOhhh! Victorious, thankyou for this site! My husband and I were discussing should women preach/teach in church and he quoted a scripture in the new testament (can't remember where),but I knew there had to be some historical implication behind why Paul mentioned women should not minister.  I could not believe that a loving and FAIR God would forbid women from ministering. If that's the case, Joyce Meyer is an ineffective Bible teacher and her book, 'Battlefield of the Mind' is worthless


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## hallcust (May 26, 2006)

My grandmother is a minister of her local church, and she is the most loving and God-fearing woman I have ever met. I have gleaned much wisdom from listening to her over the years. I only pray that I can be half the soldier of Christ that she is.
I don't think she could have the God-like character and strong Spirit of the Lord to serve others endlessly and love the Word of Truth so much if it were wrong for her to be ministering, for it takes the Spirit of the Lord to bear such fruit. 
I always look at her life when I'm confronted with this question.
Also I'm glad for the clarification of how the correct context should have been understood when Paul was speaking on this. Great discussion!


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## PrincessDiva (May 27, 2006)

I think that some Greatest warriors for Christ right now are women:
                               PROPHETESS JUANITA BYNUM
                               JOYCE MEYERS
                               PAULA WHITE
                              JUST TO NAME A FEW.....


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## PaperClip (May 27, 2006)

Short answer is YES.... because ANYBODY (speaking about Christians here) can minister (serve).... 

These types of questions make me think about the balance/battle between TITLE and FUNCTION.... In many, many instances, women perform the FUNCTION of ministry/ serving/ leading/ teaching/ preaching, etc. without the TITLE.... 

On the flip side, there are SEVERAL actual and metaphorical examples of women in the Bible who did or did not have the title but still did the function (under proper leadership/covering)

Essentially, I have been chosen for ministry by the Lord and I am in a church where I see examples of women serving in ministry on many levels.


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## Poohbear (Jun 2, 2006)

I voted "Not sure" but leaning towards the side of "No" in regards to women being an overseer of the church or a deacon... here's why...

1 Timothy 2:9 - 3:16 discusses instructions to women and it discusses the role and requirements of overseers and deacons in the church.  Here is what I get from these scriptures and other scriptures I have read in the Bible...

*Women can be evangelists, disciples, and ministers of Christ... but NOT overseers, pastors, or deacons of the church.  The Bible clearly states that it must be a man....*

...but here's where the "not sure" side of me comes in... the Bible makes several references to 'man' and 'mankind' which is meant for 'everyone'... plus, back in those times, women were not as knowledgeable about the word of God so Paul instructed them to be quiet... today, times have changed.

And as far as an overseer or a deacon of the church being a man as a requirement, that's not enough... it CANNOT just be ANY man... the man must be a husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addited to wine, gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money, manages his own household well, have a good reputation outside the church, men of dignity, etc... so see, there's some men out there that shouldn't be overseers and deacons... 

And the word "preach" is a relative term... it can apply to a minister, evangelist, overseer or pastor of the church because Jesus did instruct us ALL to go and preach the word and make disciples of all the nations baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. 

So that is my view on this issue.  Anyone else feel this way???


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## MrsQueeny (Jun 3, 2006)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> I voted "Not sure" but leaning towards the side of "No" in regards to women being an overseer of the church or a deacon... here's why...
> 
> 1 Timothy 2:9 - 3:16 discusses instructions to women and it discusses the role and requirements of overseers and deacons in the church.  Here is what I get from these scriptures and other scriptures I have read in the Bible...
> 
> ...


I felt like you until I myself was called and people tried to tell me that I could not minister as a woman.  I "know" that GOD called me and if HE did it for me, then I am sure HE has called the other women in higher positions of authority.  I also go back to when JESUS rose, HE sent a woman in an authoritative position with instructions from HIM.  HE could have easily found one of the men and gave them the instructions.  Q


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## Poohbear (Jun 4, 2006)

queeny20 said:
			
		

> I felt like you until I myself was called and people tried to tell me that I could not minister as a woman.  I "know" that GOD called me and if HE did it for me, then I am sure HE has called the other women in higher positions of authority.  I also go back to when JESUS rose, HE sent a woman in an authoritative position with instructions from HIM.  HE could have easily found one of the men and gave them the instructions.  Q


When you say 'minister', do you mean pastor / overseer of the church? Because I said women CAN minister... That's every Christian's job.  I believe everyone (men and women) can minister and be disciples of Christ... the woman that HE sent was a disciple... She wasn't a pastor or anything in an authoritative position.  I see 'minister' and 'pastor / overseer' as two different things.


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## MrsQueeny (Jun 4, 2006)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> When you say 'minister', do you mean pastor / overseer of the church? Because I said women CAN minister... That's every Christian's job.  I believe everyone (men and women) can minister and be disciples of Christ... the woman that HE sent was a disciple... She wasn't a pastor or anything in an authoritative position.  I see 'minister' and 'pastor / overseer' as two different things.


There are people who believe that women should not hold the "title" of minister and that they should not be allowed to preach to men from the pulpit.  Yes they can hold bible study, pray, sing, but not get in the pulpit like I do and preach.  I do feel that she was in a position of authority when she was sent to call the men.  I believe there was more involved in her getting the men together considering the events that had just taken place.  Q


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## PaperClip (Jun 4, 2006)

I believe a woman can pastor, as long as she has a male covering, and that can be her husband or another male in a higher leadership position, e.g., another pastor, bishop, etc.

I haven't seen in the Bible where pastorship was gender-specific. It is gender-specific concerning the office of a Bishop.


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## MindTwister (Jun 5, 2006)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I believe a woman can pastor, as long as she has a male covering, and that can be her husband or another male in a higher leadership position, e.g., another pastor, bishop, etc.
> 
> I haven't seen in the Bible where pastorship was gender-specific. It is gender-specific concerning the office of a Bishop.


Can you please explain to me what's the difference between a pastor and a bishop? Thank you 

As far as this discussion is concerned, I was just talkin with someone about this yesterday. I'm new to really studying the Bible so I don't know much, but he told me that women can't minister and I should read the book of Titus. Anybody care to tell what's in the book of Titus regarding this issue?
I'll read it as soon as I can though


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## PaperClip (Jun 5, 2006)

MindTwister said:
			
		

> Can you please explain to me what's the difference between a pastor and a bishop? Thank you


 
Hello.... I'm addressing the distinctions between a pastor and a bishop. I basically pulled some definitions from various resources located at www.crosswalk.com and www.biblegateway.com. Hope this is helpful.

Basically, a pastor is described as one who feeds the flock. Another word for pastor is shepherd. 
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Nave's Topical Bible[/FONT]**[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Shepherd[/FONT]*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][E][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]One who cares for flocks of sheep 
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Genesis 31:38-40[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT]Psalms 78:52,53[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Jeremiah 31:10[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Amos 3:12[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Luke 2:8[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Causes the flock to rest 
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Psalms 23:2[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Solomon 1:7[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Jeremiah 33:12[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
Counts the flock 
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Leviticus 27:32[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Jeremiah 33:13[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
Knows each one of his flock by name 
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]John 10:3-5[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
Keeps the sheep and goats apart 
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Matthew 25:32[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
Waters the flocks 
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Genesis 29:2-10[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
Keeps the flocks in folds 
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Numbers 32:16[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 Samuel 24:3[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]2 Samuel 7:8[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]John 10:1[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT] 

A bishop is described as an overseer.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
*Nave's Topical Bible*[/FONT]
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Bishop[/FONT]**[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][E][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT][/URL]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica](An overseer, a supervisor) [/FONT]
*
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Philippians 1:1[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Acts 20:28[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 Timothy 3:2-7[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Titus 1:5-11[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
[*]A TITLE OF JESUS [/FONT]*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 Peter 2:25[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
See
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]ELDER[/FONT][/URL]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]
*
*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Easton's Bible Dictionary[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Bishop[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][N][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] 
an overseer. In apostolic times, it is quite manifest that there was no difference as to order between bishops and elders or presbyters ([/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Acts 20:17-28[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 Peter 5:1,2[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; Phil [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1:1[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]; [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 Timothy 3[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]). The term bishop is never once used to denote a different office from that of elder or presbyter. These different names are simply titles of the same office, "bishop" designating the function, namely, that of oversight, and "presbyter" the dignity appertaining to the office. Christ is figuratively called "the bishop [episcopos] of souls" ([/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 Peter 2:25[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]). 
[/FONT]
The reasoning about the distinction of a woman in the office of the bishop is located in 1 Timothy 3. It specifically discusses the MAN's desire and the requirement of being the HUSBAND of one WIFE. 
1 Timothy 3
1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 
2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

The rest of the chapter outlines additional points concerning the bishop's office.
*


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## FlyyGyrl (Jun 6, 2006)

I believe that women can partake in all levels of ministry, including the role of a pastor or bishop. This is the summary of why I feel this way. (Taken from http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=141) If you have the time take a look at the site. It is really thorough.


"Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).

It is interesting to note that God called both male and female, "Adam" in the day they were created. Adam means "man." Adam and Eve were created with God-ordained differences from each other, but together they made a full "man," or a complete picture of God Himself. There was perfection in their union. Their differences were not a source of discord or inequality, but a beautiful compliment to each other. Together, God gave them the task of overseeing and ruling His creation. 

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28).

Notice that God gave the above commission to them both. There is no hint that there was anything but equal authority between man and woman as they existed in a sinless state. What changed things? In the next few chapters of Genesis, we find that sin entered the heart of Adam and Eve. The result was a temporary curse placed upon both man and woman, which would affect the whole earth. 

When Eve ate the forbidden fruit and enticed Adam to sin with her, one of the consequences for women was the loss of equality with men, as men were to rule over women, instead of men and women ruling together. She would now be "ruled by her husband." However, when Jesus came as sinless Man and died as the Messiah on the cross for us, all things were restored positionally. In actuality, the restoration of man (men and women) began to take place at that very moment. 


Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Once we are born into the kingdom of God, we become new creatures in Christ. In the Spirit, we find there is "neither male nor female," just as there are no race distinctions nor class separations. The Lord looks on the hearts of His new creatures and therefore does not discriminate when He offers His love and privileges. Women are not excluded from any of God's promises nor callings merely because of their sex

And there were many active women in all levels of ministry in biblical times for  a list check the site http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=141


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## NtheNameofJesus! (Jun 6, 2006)

Poohbear, i do agree with you and have the same questions as well...

i've been thinking about this off and on for a while, and definately believe that women should NOT pastor or bishop, unless they are covered by a male.  God did make divine order, and the husband is the head of the wife.  so, if she were a pastor, then her husband ought to be pastor as well, and head pastor...or they could be co-pastor i suppose, if the Lord led that way...

but....there are soooooooooo many logistics in this thing, so i won't even bother to write more cuz i really don't know much more and haven't figured it out for myself, except for what i stated earlier.  for i believe it impossible for the wife to be submitted at home, be the helpmate of the husband at home, but she's bossing him at church! that's out of order!!!!!


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## MindTwister (Jun 6, 2006)

Thanks RelaxrRehad for your reply


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## Nice & Wavy (Jun 7, 2006)

FlyyGyrl said:
			
		

> I believe that women can partake in all levels of ministry, including the role of a pastor or bishop. This is the summary of why I feel this way. (Taken from http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=141) If you have the time take a look at the site. It is really thorough.
> 
> 
> "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).
> ...


 
Wow, as a pastor myself, this is very informative information and right on target.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jun 7, 2006)

NtheNameofJesus! said:
			
		

> Poohbear, i do agree with you and have the same questions as well...
> 
> i've been thinking about this off and on for a while, and definately believe that women should NOT pastor or bishop, unless they are covered by a male. God did make divine order, and the husband is the head of the wife. so, if she were a pastor, then her husband ought to be pastor as well, and head pastor...or they could be co-pastor i suppose, if the Lord led that way...
> 
> but....there are soooooooooo many logistics in this thing, so i won't even bother to write more cuz i really don't know much more and haven't figured it out for myself, except for what i stated earlier. for i believe it impossible for the wife to be submitted at home, be the helpmate of the husband at home, but she's bossing him at church! that's out of order!!!!!


 
No one at all should be "bossing" anyone in church or out of church, whether its the husband or wife.  God made a covenant between a man and a woman and they are "ONE".  Whether people feel this way or that way, it really doesn't matter, all that matters is that people are dying and going to spend eternity away from the One and only True and Living God, and WE ALL, whether male or female, need to help them to the foot of the cross.  God can use anyone to preach His Word.  So, if its a woman He chooses, then so be it.  People need to stop putting God in a box, and realize that He is able to do exceedingly, abundantly above ALL we can ask or even think!


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## Poohbear (Jun 9, 2006)

queeny20 said:
			
		

> There are people who believe that women should not hold the "title" of minister and that they should not be allowed to preach to men from the pulpit. Yes they can hold bible study, pray, sing, but not get in the pulpit like I do and preach. I do feel that she was in a position of authority when she was sent to call the men. I believe there was more involved in her getting the men together considering the events that had just taken place. Q


Oh, now I see what you're saying in regards to having the title of Minister... I really don't see anything wrong with women being ministers or women that preach God's Word whether it be in a church or other setting... to me, preaching is another word for teaching; I think preaching has more influence than teaching I guess, I dunno... I only see a problem with women being pastors or overseers of the church... that is different than being a minister...

And as I stated earlier, I still have mixed views about this... I just have to study the Bible more in regards to this issue myself...

And of course she had authority... but NOT as a pastor or overseer... she had the authority from the Lord as a disciple to tell the men disciples of the Good News... that's what I was saying.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jun 9, 2006)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Oh, now I see what you're saying in regards to having the title of Minister... I really don't see anything wrong with women being ministers or women that preach God's Word whether it be in a church or other setting... to me, preaching is another word for teaching; I think preaching has more influence than teaching I guess, I dunno... I only see a problem with women being pastors or overseers of the church... that is different than being a minister...
> 
> And as I stated earlier, I still have mixed views about this... I just have to study the Bible more in regards to this issue myself...
> 
> And of course she had authority... but NOT as a pastor or overseer... she had the authority from the Lord as a disciple to tell the men disciples of the Good News... that's what I was saying.


 
Hi poohbear,

Is it ok that I disagree with you on somethings?  I know for a fact that women can be pastors over a church.  There are many, many women pastors who actually have large congregations (and small ones too) that are very, successful in their ministry.  God is using them tremendously and His hand is on their lives.  God does speak, clearly and if He doesn't want something, or let's say if something is not of God, it won't work...period!

Every pastor or overseer has someone overseeing them.  Men and women.  I believe that satan has his hand in the way people think about women as pastors in the church.  As a pastor, I wonder sometimes why people think the way they do about women as pastors.  It is discrimination among christians and really, it needs to stop.  God will use ANYONE for His purpose and for His Glory.  If He chose me to pastor a church, then who am I to deny Him the right to use me in the capacity He placed me in.

Pastor, minister, overseer, elder...its the same just different capacities.

I understand the role of being a woman and having a covering.  I understand this to the fullest.  God first, Jesus Christ, my husband, me (wifey), children and then everyone else.  Anything out of this order can be disastrous and catastrophic in every manner.  I don't believe women pastors are looking to not have a covering...why Jesus Christ is the covering for her.  She don't need a man to teach her anything when she has Christ to teach her, by the Holy Spirit.  This also applies for men pastors as well.  Our covering has got to be Jesus, whether a pastor is a man or a woman.

Just my thoughts to share with you.  I didn't become a pastor overnight...it took time for me to know my calling and then to accept it and now walking in my calling has allowed me to understand more than I did before.  You really don't understand it all until you walk in it yourself.

Blessings to you, always.


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## dreamer26 (Jun 10, 2006)

This is an excellent topic and I to have struggled because I was taught women should not preach.  I am not a preacher but God is dealing with me mightly and it would take to long to tell the story.

There is one scripture I would like to add to this discussion pretaining to women preaching.  Acts 2: 16-17

This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel, God said that in the last days I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams and your young men shall see visions.

Thess scriptures say that in the last days God is using whomever he chooses.  He's pouring out his spirit upon all flesh. 

When is the last days? When did the last days began? 
The last days began the day Jesus asended up into glory and took his seat on the high hand of God.  

Yes God has order and man is the head of the woman but God is the head of the church and that means even though you have a pastor,  that pastor is still or should be subject to the desire of God.  That's why God said he's the hed of the church because when man can't see why he should use a woman or when man don't think God can use a woman, God is right there to say Son I know you don't think I can use her but you didn't make her you don't know what I've taken her through in order to bring me glory.  This thing is about God and God getting glory and redeeming man back to himself.  It's not about gender, titles, positions. IT's all about God and he along being glorified.  

God is solvern, he can do and use anybody and anything in anyway at anytime that he choses.

I believe as pastors submit themselves to God and seek his guidance and church become about God and God's business you'll see men and women working hand in hand like he intended and you'll see God showing up like never before.  

That's my thoughts.


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## NtheNameofJesus! (Jun 10, 2006)

"bossing"...maybe a harsh word, but my opinion still stands, because i'm just not seeing that in the Word of God....and i'll definately have to get into studying it and researching what the Word has to say.  God STILL created order, and saying that a woman doesn't need a man to cover her, cuz she got Jesus, just opens up the door for a lay member to say they don't need to be ordained by they pastor cuz God called them....and they pastor don't need to approve nothing!!!  God will NOT break the order He establishes in His Word! maybe we don't believe that on this board...idk.  but i'm just saying. God DID establish order...and i had once received this long email thing from a person who was a minister who was trying to prove in the Bible that women are called to preach, pastor, etc. and she misused some stuff, talking about the greek words for the passage about the bishop being the husband of one wife were interchangeable and that's totally incorrect.  so....why'd i say all that? cuz we have to do the reading in the Word for ourselves and not take things out of context but rightly divide the word of truth.  no doubt we all need to be preaching the Word, but we ain't gotta have what man thinks we have to have to do that (i.e. a platform, pulpit, etc.).  folks on the buses need to be saved...so preaching the Word ain't really the issue, cuz we're all commanded to be ministers (servants)...PERIOD!  what the issue is, does the Word of God back up women in the pulpit!

...lol...so, what i think we NEED to be doing is praying and not busting God out of a box so much so that God's not even in His Word anymore!! lol....love yall.


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## MrsQueeny (Jun 11, 2006)

NtheNameofJesus! said:
			
		

> what the issue is, does the Word of God back up women in the pulpit!
> 
> ...lol...so, what i think we NEED to be doing is praying and not busting God out of a box so much so that God's not even in His Word anymore!! lol....love yall.



I understand where you are coming from but as far as the pulpit thing, I KNOW that GOD called me and not man to be in the pulpit.  Trust me I did not call myself and ran from it until GOD revealed some things to me.  Therefore I am following HIS leading alone.  So people can say what they want but in the end I will answer to HIM alone and I don't believe HE would lead me this way if it was not HIS will.  This comes down to a person's relationship with the LORD and when that is solid like mine is, I am unmoved and unshaken by man (not directed at anyone).  Be blessed Q


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## NtheNameofJesus! (Jun 11, 2006)

per my earlier posts on this subject, i mentioned that i don't have a problem with women ministers, because i believe that's backed up in the Word, however, my question was simply directed towards women pastors....as in they are the head of the church. not ministers....sorry for any misunderstanding.


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## Poohbear (Jun 12, 2006)

*@ Nice&Wavy and queeny20,*

How would you ladies explain the following scriptures then???
Please read the passage to its entirety...

~~~
1 Timothy 2

8 I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. 
9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. *12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.* 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearingâ€”if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

1 Timothy 3

1 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets *his *heart on being an overseer, *he* desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, *the husband of but one wife*, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 *He* must manage* his *own family well and see that *his *children obey *him* with proper respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6 *He* must not be a recent convert, or *he* may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap. 
 8 *Deacons, likewise, are to be men* worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 

 11 In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything. 

 12 *A deacon must be the husband of but one wife* and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.

~~~~~

QUESTIONS:

Do you ladies think 'he' and 'his' can be interchangeable like it is in other parts of the Bible???

I know back then they told women to be silent because they did not have adequate knowledge of the word of God... I know there are women today who do have that adequate knowledge, but does that grant them the right to be an overseer or deacon???

When it mentions their wives in verse 11, it just says they must be worthy of respect... not overseers or deacons....

Wouldn't you think that God would have specifically turned it around to mention women as overseers or deacons by using 'she' and 'her' if women were really meant to be overseers and deacons???


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## Poohbear (Jun 12, 2006)

FlyyGyrl said:
			
		

> I believe that women can partake in all levels of ministry, including the role of a pastor or bishop. This is the summary of why I feel this way. (Taken from http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=141) If you have the time take a look at the site. It is really thorough.
> 
> 
> "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).
> ...


I have looked at 3 Bible translations and none of them said that God called them "Adam"... He called them "Man".  Yes, God gave Adam and Eve the task of overseeing and ruling His creation...it's not talking about overseeing over a church... you must keep it within this context... after the Fall of Man, our image of God was distorted by sin which is why we have Jesus Christ.  The book of Timothy gives specific instructions for overseeing the church which is different than when God gave Adam and Eve the authority to oversee all of His creation.



> "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28).
> 
> Notice that God gave the above commission to them both. There is no hint that there was anything but equal authority between man and woman as they existed in a sinless state. What changed things? In the next few chapters of Genesis, we find that sin entered the heart of Adam and Eve. The result was a temporary curse placed upon both man and woman, which would affect the whole earth.
> 
> *When Eve ate the forbidden fruit and enticed Adam to sin with her, one of the consequences for women was the loss of equality with men, as men were to rule over women, instead of men and women ruling together. She would now be "ruled by her husband."* However, when Jesus came as sinless Man and died as the Messiah on the cross for us, all things were restored positionally. In actuality, the restoration of man (men and women) began to take place at that very moment.


 The bolded part is true...  
But please point out to me in the Bible where it refers to the equality of men and women being restored by the death of Jesus.  Every scripture I see in the New Testament gives out specific instructions to men and women or husbands and wives.



> Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
> 
> Once we are born into the kingdom of God, we become new creatures in Christ. In the Spirit, we find there is "neither male nor female," just as there are no race distinctions nor class separations. The Lord looks on the hearts of His new creatures and therefore does not discriminate when He offers His love and privileges. Women are not excluded from any of God's promises nor callings merely because of their sex
> 
> And there were many active women in all levels of ministry in biblical times for a list check the site http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=141


 
This scripture is not at all talking about positions of authority in the church.  This scripture is referring to exactly what was stated... we [those who have faith in Him] are all one in Jesus Christ no matter who we are... this scripture is referring to the intent of the Law meaning who the Law was intended for...do not take the scripture out of its context... You must read the whole chapter of Galatians 3 to understand this verse.

And the Bible does give account to women being active in the ministry... not all levels of ministry... the women in the Bible were simply teachers, disciples, or evangelists... not pastors or deacons.


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## MrsQueeny (Jun 12, 2006)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> *@ Nice&Wavy and queeny20,*
> 
> How would you ladies explain the following scriptures then???
> Please read the passage to its entirety...
> ...



Poohbear I have an answer to all of this.  I will post it later when I type it all out.  Q


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## MrsQueeny (Jun 12, 2006)

During the time in which Paul wrote this there were things going on in the church.  There were false teachers which led to a disregard for proper decorum and practices in the church (1 Tim 2:8-15).  This also included a rejection of the institution of marriage (1 Tim 4:3).  Some women particularly young widows (1 Tim 5:9-15) who were becoming busy bodies and gossips.  Pauls word must be understood within the context where false teaching is at issue.  The general prohibition against all those who "teach false doctrines" (1 Tim 1:3) is now focused specifically on the women who have fallen prey to such false teaching or who are involved in promoting it. If women are to be silent, then we should not pray, sing, or read scriptures.  Paul himself never applied a universal restriction on women Rom 16:1, Rom 16:3, Phil 4:2-9, Rom 16:7.  The Spirit of GOD empowered both men and women to be proclaimers of God's work Acts 2:14-18.  Women participated in vocal prayer in the early church 1 Cor 11.  Sorry I did not type out the scriptures but I have more and will post it later.  Q


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## Poohbear (Jun 13, 2006)

queeny20 said:
			
		

> During the time in which Paul wrote this there were things going on in the church. There were false teachers which led to a disregard for proper decorum and practices in the church (1 Tim 2:8-15). This also included a rejection of the institution of marriage (1 Tim 4:3). Some women particularly young widows (1 Tim 5:9-15) who were becoming busy bodies and gossips. Pauls word must be understood within the context where false teaching is at issue. The general prohibition against all those who "teach false doctrines" (1 Tim 1:3) is now focused specifically on the women who have fallen prey to such false teaching or who are involved in promoting it. If women are to be silent, then we should not pray, sing, or read scriptures. Paul himself never applied a universal restriction on women Rom 16:1, Rom 16:3, Phil 4:2-9, Rom 16:7. The Spirit of GOD empowered both men and women to be proclaimers of God's work Acts 2:14-18. Women participated in vocal prayer in the early church 1 Cor 11. Sorry I did not type out the scriptures but I have more and will post it later. Q


Thanks queeny20.  I already knew about all of this information that you have just posted...I just didn't go into detail about it in my previous posts.  I'm just wondering how are we as Christians today suppose to apply this particular passage today after knowing the historical context behind this passage??? And no problem about abbreviating those scriptures, I will check those out.


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## MariposaMorena08 (Jun 20, 2006)

ITA! My mom is a minister (finally, after God had to run her down! Don't feel bad Queeny20! LOL!) as is my husband, and I am an evangelist (who has begun walking slowly as opposed to running from the call). The Bible is pretty specific on the qualifications of bishops, deacons, etc. and it speaks about them being men. Which does not mean that we, as women of the Most High, are inferior, but rather that we have a different position(s) to fill. Also, we have to be careful about judging the success of a church on its size.


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## kbragg (Jan 25, 2007)

I believe women are called to preach, but not in an authoritive position without a male at the head, for man is the head of woman and Christ the head of man, and God the headof Christ. I do believe that women are called to GO OUT to the people. As a matter of fact, I believe a lot of people who God is calling today don't realize that their calling may not be to the pulpit it the traditional sense. Check out this book: www.GodIsWorking.com Especially the female Pastors & Ministers that posted (especially you Queeny as I know you are active in the business world, this book will make so much sense to you.)


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## Shimmie (Jan 25, 2007)

I will always believe that men should *lead a*nd that women should follow.  Yet, there are times when God has called and appointed a woman to deliver His message to set the captives free.   

We all have a place in the body of Christ to fulfill the will and the plan of God.  The order is God first, then whomever answers the 'call' to fulfill His plan and purpose.


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## 1god1 (Jan 26, 2007)

I view women preachers vs deacons differently, but I answered YES anyway.  I don't have a problem with female preachers...or pastors.  I think only males can be deacons...there a couple of verses on that somewhere.  Some christians don't have a problem with women preaching...as long as they aren't PASTORS....ruling over folx (mainly men).  they use that verse about women being silent in the church, but that was said for that specific incident.  I mean...if God can speak through a donkey....y can't He not speak through a woman?  yes this is a touchy subject.  Some believe all those who sit under females are committing an heresey..a sin against God.  I was also in a couple situations while being stationed overseas where the only person capable or available to pastor was a female.

Note: I just read the question....not all the responses yet.


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## Divine Inspiration (Jan 26, 2007)

I say YES. There is no male or female in Christ, and He can use whoever and whatever He wants. I have received some of my most life-changing messages from WOMEN who were ministers, deacons, pastors and so forth. 

There is a special gift that women have been given, and I *know* God is aware of this. I truly believe He calls those who are able, and I don't believe that my God discriminates against women. 

There's sooooo much more to this to be said, but the short answer is YES.


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## Guyaneek (Jan 26, 2007)

I have to say yes because Joyce Meyer alone has been such a blessing to me and I can't believe she isn't a God send.


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## MrsHouston (Jan 26, 2007)

I voted No.

This is a good topic for discussion and I hope everyone's comments are respected here.  I believe the scriptures teach that it is not okay for a woman to serve authority over a man in the church setting.  

1 Corinthians 11:3 (NASB)

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

This is not a popular view of the male female role, therefore, we are told, it is to be rejected. Therefore an emotionally charged issue has been created by those who have an agenda.

When we talk about male female roles, *we must first understand that no one in the church that I know of believes that males are superior to females.* The two highest I.Q. scores of all time were obtained by women. We are not talking about equality, or tradition, or chauvinism. When we come to a subject like this we must concern ourselves with, what do the Scriptures say?

There are two primary passages which speak to this issue, 1 Corinthians 14:34,35 and 1 Timothy 2:8-15.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NASB)

34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

First in this context we must notice that the word for women is the Greek word gune {goo-nay'}, which means women, and is gender specific. Men are excluded.

The word for churches is the Greek word ekklesia {ek-klay-see'-ah} meaning assembly.

Silent is the Greek word sigao {see-gah'-o} which means â€˜absolute silence; not to utter a sound.â€™

This is the same word that is used in verse 28:

1 Corinthians 14:28 (NASB)

but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

The tongue speaker was to hold his tongue, he was not to utter a sound if there was no interpreter present. Similarly, if a prophet suddenly received a revelation and another prophet was already speaking, verse 30 tells us:

1 Corinthians 14:30(NASB)

But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent...

The purpose for this instruction is obvious. One prophet or teacher must not interrupt another during the presentation of the Gospel. God is not the author of confusion. All things must be done decently and in order. Verse 34 tells us that women are not permitted to speak.

Permitted is from the word that means â€˜to allow, to give permission (Matt. 19:8). Speak is the word that means to â€˜say or speak.

Verse 35 - tells us that they are to subject themselves.

Subject is from the word that means to â€˜rank under,â€™ it is a military term, meaning to subject oneself to , to obey, to be under obedience. Itâ€™s the same word used in Eph. 5:21,22,24; Titus 2:5,9; 1 Pet. 2:18; 3:1.

This has reference to the role aspect of the woman with regard to the man.

Verse 35 also tells us that it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

Improper is from the Greek word that means â€˜ugly, shameful, base, disgraceful.â€™

Therefore, from these two verses we are given the clear instruction by God that Christian women are not to speak (preach or teach) in the worship assembly.

Because the Scriptures uses the plural, churches in verse 34, we know without any doubt that this is the directive God extends to all congregations. Women are not to preach in any worship assembly.

Verse 35 tells us that women are to subject themselves, which represents the characteristic role which is given to women by God. This was not a new concept developed by the Apostle Paul, for Paul appeals to the wider Biblical principal found in Genesis 3:16, and he shall rule over you.

What the Scriptures then tells us is that it would violate a Biblical principle for a woman to speak in the assembly because it violates the role given to women by God which is subjection. It is therefore, the Scriptures say, disgraceful for a woman to reject her God-given role by speaking to the assembly.

The other passage we must consider is 1 Timothy 2:8-15:

1 Timothy 2:8-15: (NASB)

8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.

9 Â¶ Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,

10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.

12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.

14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Verse 8 tells us that God wants the men in ever place to pray. If God had wanted to use a word that would have included both genders, he could have used anthropos as he did in verse one. Here he uses the word aner {an'-ayr} which is gender specific, meaning males and males only.

In every place tells us the when and the where of where God wants men to pray. Whenever, and whereever men and women are gathered together to pray, men are to do the leading.

In this passage the instruction given to women is to adorn themselves with proper clothing, that is dress to please God, and to quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness, which once again speaks to the role of subjection intended by God for the womanâ€™s role.

Next the Scriptures tell us , I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. Teach is used in the official sense. She must not teach in the assembly, as has already been seen. She is not to domineer men in the assembly, but she must remain quiet.

And then we have revealed the reason. For. The Greek word for â€˜forâ€™ is a conjunction. It is used to express cause or reason. Here is the reason that woman is prohibited by God to speak in the assembly. It was Adam who was first created, and then Eve (verse 13).

This verse argues, once again, the role of the woman as depicted by God from the beginning of creation. Women were not intended by God to have authority over man. At one point in creation it was utterly impossible, for man existed before woman.

Next, the Scriptures say, it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression. All women are included here, for Eve is not named.

Here is what we then must conclude:

God desires at all places and times when men and women are gathered for the purposes of teaching and prayer for the men to do the leading. Women are to dress modestly and discreetly. Women are expressly prohibited from leading in prayer, teaching and exercising authority over men on these occasions. The reason why has to do with the characteristic role of women assigned to them by God. The Apostle Paul did not originate these distinctive roles. God established these roles from the beginning. When women remove themselves from their God given role by leading in teaching, or prayer, or in any other capacity in the presence of men when they are gathered together for the purpose of the study of Godâ€™s Word and prayer, they do so without Biblical authority. When women insist on exercising authority over men in spiritual activities they do so in violation of the Scriptures.


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## Mortons (Jan 28, 2007)

Wow....um well the minister that touched me the most is definately a lady preacher. I would not wait for a man and risk going to hell anyway


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## baby42 (Jan 28, 2007)

I LOVE THE LORD AND I DONOT CARE IF I GET THE WORD FROM A WOMAN AS LONG AS I GET THE WORD  RIGHT


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## Crissi (Feb 21, 2007)

Guyaneek said:
			
		

> I have to say yes because Joyce Meyer alone has been such a blessing to me and I can't believe she isn't a God send.


 
You know!!! after i wake she is on in the morning, and i learn something knew about God DAILY!

Plus my pastor is female she is a God send one of the greatest people i have ever met in my entire life. I remember the first day i went to the church, she ppreached and it touched me! i got up and got saved, i still remember what she said. I have such a great relationship with her, she is a blessing to me and everyone else.


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## smitmarv (Feb 22, 2007)

When you go back to Hebrew understanding of the Bible you will find that where it says a women is not to teach in the church, the word teach comes from telmadine (I hope I spelled it right) which means a one on one teaching relationship with a man alone.  She can preach to the congrigation no problem just not in an intamate situation like that where she is alone with a man.  I hope that makes since.  People need to go all the way back to the Hebrew because the Greek can be lacking sometimes.


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## StrawberryQueen (Feb 22, 2007)

smitmarv said:
			
		

> When you go back to Hebrew understanding of the Bible you will find that where it says a women is not to teach in the church, the word teach comes from telmadine (I hope I spelled it right) which means a one on one teaching relationship with a man alone.  She can preach to the congrigation no problem just not in an intamate situation like that where she is alone with a man.  I hope that makes since.  People need to go all the way back to the Hebrew because the Greek can be lacking sometimes.


This makes EXCELLENT sense!


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## lil'paw (Feb 24, 2007)

I believe that a woman has some place in minstry but I do not believe it is biblical for a woman to head a church and/or be in the office of a Pastor, Bishop or an Apostle. 
A lot of Churches I know of or have even been a member of where there was a Woman heading the Church with no Man figure over them, had a lot of confusion and strife in them, few members and hardly any Men. I belive it is because they are out of the will of God.
In fact a lot of these women are estranged from their husbands and this in it's self is a violation of God's word because a married woman's first minsitry is to her husband.


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## TrustMeLove (Feb 28, 2007)

I won't vote. But I will be honesst in my post.

My pastor at home in oakland is a woman. She is truly a blessing and is really directed by God. At my church here in Los Angeles we have female deacons who are also really walking in their biblical roles.

However, when this post came up and I read it..I had the inclination to check unsure.

I've done some research...and I'm still unsure. I support my pastor and the deceaonesses at church of course..but as far as I am concerned..if I had the chance to take up one of these roles..as of now I would decline due to being unsure.


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## zora (Feb 28, 2007)

lil'paw said:
			
		

> I believe that a woman has some place in minstry but I do not believe it is biblical for a woman to head a church and/or be in the office of a Pastor, Bishop or an Apostle.
> A* lot of Churches I know of or have even been a member of where there was a Woman heading the Church with no Man figure over them, had a lot of confusion and strife in them, few members and hardly any Men*. I belive it is because they are out of the will of God.
> In fact a lot of these women are estranged from their husbands and this in it's self is a violation of God's word because a married woman's first minsitry is to her husband.


I've seen this, especially the latter point, in many male pastor led churches as well.  It would be interesting if someone did a study to see what the real deal is.


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## tmichelle (Mar 5, 2007)

MrsHouston said:
			
		

> I voted No.
> 
> This is a good topic for discussion and I hope everyone's comments are respected here. I believe the scriptures teach that it is not okay for a woman to serve authority over a man in the church setting.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the above


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## carcajada (Apr 1, 2007)

lil'paw said:
			
		

> I believe that a woman has some place in minstry but I do not believe it is biblical for a woman to head a church and/or be in the office of a Pastor, Bishop or an Apostle.



I agree with this and voted no.


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## Hair4Care (Sep 18, 2008)

confuuuuusing!!


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## metamorfhosis (Sep 18, 2008)

kbragg said:


> In fact, I believe a lot of people who God is calling today don't realize that their calling may not be to the pulpit it the traditional sense.


 
I agree with you here. My pastor was just talking about people getting caught up in "positions" on Sunday. Sometimes we need to stop worrying about the "title", get our work done, and aim for RESULTS.


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## kayte (Sep 18, 2008)

> My pastor was just talking about people getting caught up in "positions" on Sunday. *Sometimes we need to stop worrying about the "title", get our work done, and aim for RESULTS*.



a good general analogy....for life as well....
really wish I could do this...instead of just musing


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## ladyofvirtue (Sep 19, 2008)

I voted no.

The Lord used Mrs. Houston to explain it very thouroughly.


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## Highly Favored8 (Sep 19, 2008)

I voted yes.


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## Blondell (Jun 8, 2009)

There are some amazing and insightful posts in this thread. I've not YET read it all, but I thank all of you who have posted your thoughts. It is helpful to me.


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## Crown (Jun 9, 2009)

> When you go back to Hebrew understanding of the Bible you will find that where it says a women is not to teach in the church, the word teach comes from telmadine (I hope I spelled it right) which means a one on one teaching relationship with a man alone.  She can preach to the congrigation no problem just not in an intamate situation like that where she is alone with a man.  I hope that makes since.  People need to go all the way back to the Hebrew because the Greek can be lacking sometimes.


No!
The Old Testament was in Hebrew, but the New Testament was in Greek. All the verses about the woman in the assembly are in the New Testament with reference about the fall in Genesis.


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## divya (Jun 9, 2009)

I choose to err on the side of caution and vote _no_. This is something that I would like to study in more detail but both MrsHouston and kbraggs posts make sense to me.


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## blazingthru (Jun 9, 2009)

I voted no.  I also believe that woman are called to minster to others but not in the same capacity as a preacher/minister. The bible is our example there are hundreds of priest in the bible and called by God and all of them were men,

I took this from something I read ---  The Bible does seem to indicate – by example – that it was God’s plan for a patriarchal system where the men were the Priests, servant leaders in the families and in the churches.  Jesus had a number of disciples, men and women; but among the Apostles, He only chose men.  God had a number of Prophets that were men and women.  Of course, Prophets are women that preach you realize.  That’s what prophecy means, to preach; but God never had any Priests that were women.

There is a difference between a Prophet and a preacher.  For instance, in the Old Testament you’ve got the three children of Amram and Jochabed were Miriam, Aaron and Moses.  They were three siblings.  All three children were Prophets.  
But, only the boys – Moses and Aaron – were the Priests.  In other words, nowhere in the Bible does a woman offer an offering.  In part of being a Pastor or a Priest, Priest in the Old Testament, Pastor in the New, was the Priest and the Pastor would make the offerings for the family.  The Pastor would, in the New Testament times, administer Communion.  So you have no example in the Bible of a woman being ordained as a Priest or a Pastor; but you do have women who are teaching and preaching and doing evangelism.  Women do have gifts of ministry, but I don’t see a precedent in the Bible for women being ordained as Pastors or Elders.

 In Christ there is neither male or female. Yet in context, all this really means is that we all have, regardless of gender, equal access to God and equal access to heaven. But it never means that there's no distinction between men and women in ministry. 

Not to condem anyone on here that is in ministry on the pulpit we all have to have our own convictions. My personal beliefs are no. I love the ideal of teaching to others and as I get stronger in my faith I will in a classroom setting not before the entire congregation. I am a woman heart and soul I feel like I have my place and I don't want another I feel that being in that position of managing the entire church would be overwhelming to me and I rather put it all in my husbands hands and I just support him. but again this is my personal beliefs and my convictions.


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## tmrskltn (Jun 9, 2009)

I agree w blazinthru , all of Jesus apostles were men, also in genesis Adam was made from the form of God , and Eve was created from Adams rib cage. They were not both made from the image of God. I do belive that woman have a place in the ministry, but they should not be teaching men. We can not change the words of the Bible to say what we want it to. I belive those seeking the truth will find it. May God bless us all.


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## momi (Jun 9, 2009)

blazingthru said:


> I voted no. I also believe that woman are called to minster to others but not in the same capacity as a preacher/minister. The bible is our example there are hundreds of priest in the bible and called by God and all of them were men,
> 
> I took this from something I read --- The Bible does seem to indicate – by example – that it was God’s plan for a patriarchal system where the men were the Priests, servant leaders in the families and in the churches. Jesus had a number of disciples, men and women; but among the Apostles, He only chose men. God had a number of Prophets that were men and women. Of course, Prophets are women that preach you realize. That’s what prophecy means, to preach; but God never had any Priests that were women.
> 
> ...


 

Thank you for sharing such insightful thoughts on such a sensitive topic.  May God be glorified.


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## MrsQueeny (Jun 9, 2009)

FlyyGyrl said:


> I believe that women can partake in all levels of ministry, including the role of a pastor or bishop. This is the summary of why I feel this way. (Taken from http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=141) If you have the time take a look at the site. It is really thorough.
> 
> 
> "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).
> ...



Wow it's been 2 years since this was posted. I have grown so much since then and moved even further into the ministry. I thank God for calling me and for using this post and others to confirm what HE has already put in my spirit. Be blessed!!! Q


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## Laela (Jun 11, 2009)

*Re: The Great Commission*

Victory,

God bless you and all the disciples who have been called to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and to teach the world to observe all that God has commanded you;  God is with you always.




***Victory is Mine said:


> Wow it's been 2 years since this was posted. I have grown so much since then and moved even further into the ministry. I thank God for calling me and for using this post and others to confirm what HE has already put in my spirit. Be blessed!!! Q


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## kbragg (Jun 13, 2009)

My opinion on this matter has drastically changed as I've delved more into the New Testament especially in the letters to the churches. Paul addresses many women ministers and pastors directly throughout the New Testament. Particularly there was dispute between 2 female leaders in the church, Euodia and Syntyche that Paul addresses. Since Paul appointed many of these women I doubt that the usual "women keep silent" verse that so often is used to put down women in ministry meant that women were to have no leadership in the church but simply in context to that disturbance in that particular church (which I believe was the same church where people were jumping up speaking in tongues at random scaring off the visitors)


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## momi (Jun 14, 2009)

kbragg said:


> My opinion on this matter has drastically changed as I've delved more into the New Testament especially in the letters to the churches. *Paul addresses many women ministers and pastors directly throughout the New Testament. Particularly there was dispute between 2 female leaders in the church, Euodia and Syntyche that Paul addresses.* Since Paul appointed many of these women I doubt that the usual "women keep silent" verse that so often is used to put down women in ministry meant that women were to have no leadership in the church but simply in context to that disturbance in that particular church (which I believe was the same church where people were jumping up speaking in tongues at random scaring off the visitors)


 
Which female pastors did Paul address? 

I know Phillipians notes Euodia and Syntyche as fellow laborours in the gospel... were they also called pastors or leaders?  

Thanks  for the dialogue - this is an interesting topic.


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## queen928 (Jun 14, 2009)

All I know is that my PASTOR is a woman and that's the title that she goes by. I just gave my life to God a few months back so there is still alot of learning and studying that I must do but I feel that if God called you, male or female, then go ahead and do what God called you to do.


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## Essensual (Jun 14, 2009)

I was always taught that the 1st person to preach the "gospel" (good news) of Jesus' Resurrection WAS a woman. One of the women who discovered that the His tomb was empty. HTH.


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## Caramela (Jun 14, 2009)

MrsHouston said:


> I voted No.
> 
> This is a good topic for discussion and I hope everyone's comments are respected here.  I believe the scriptures teach that it is not okay for a woman to serve authority over a man in the church setting.
> 
> ...




My sentiments EXACTLY. I can't even elaborate on it. Very well stated. You cannot argue with scripure. The bible is right.

My vote was a resounding *"NO"* as well.


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## MrsQueeny (Jun 14, 2009)

Laela said:


> Victory,
> 
> God bless you and all the disciples who have been called to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and to teach the world to observe all that God has commanded you;  *God is with you always.*


Yes HE is and He's with you too. Thank you. Q



kbragg said:


> My opinion on this matter has drastically changed as I've delved more into the New Testament especially in the letters to the churches. Paul addresses many women ministers and pastors directly throughout the New Testament. Particularly there was dispute between 2 female leaders in the church, Euodia and Syntyche that Paul addresses. Since Paul appointed many of these women I doubt that the usual "women keep silent" verse that so often is used to put down women in ministry meant that women were to have no leadership in the church but simply in context to that disturbance in that particular church (which I believe was the same church where people were jumping up speaking in tongues at random scaring off the visitors)


Girl you know someone pmed me and was like did you see this?  You have to post what you've found!!! I am over here shouting!!! Praise Him.  Q



queen928 said:


> All I know is that my PASTOR is a woman and that's the title that she goes by. I just gave my life to God a few months back so there is still alot of learning and studying that I must do but I feel that if God called you, male or female, then go ahead and do what God called you to do.


We served under a woman Pastor as well and was incredibly blessed. No one has to believe we are called as long as we are doing the work of the one who called us. He has the final say!!!! Q



Essensual said:


> I was always taught that the 1st person to preach the "gospel" (good news) of Jesus' Resurrection WAS a woman. One of the women who discovered that the His tomb was empty. HTH.


Preach it!!!!!! Q


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## yodie (Jul 26, 2009)

Wasn't Mary the first person to see the resurrected Jesus? Didn't she go back and tell others? Wasn't she unofficially preaching or spreading the good news that Jesus lives?

God said he gives us pastors according to his heart.

So, yes, I believe women have always been in the pulpit and should continue to be.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jul 26, 2009)

yodie said:


> Wasn't Mary the first person to see the resurrected Jesus? Didn't she go back and tell others? Wasn't she unofficially preaching or spreading the good news that Jesus lives?
> 
> God said he gives us pastors according to his heart.
> 
> So, yes, I believe women have always been in the pulpit and should continue to be.


Thank you!


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## yodie (Jul 26, 2009)

Threads like these are interesting.  I just want the word of God.  I don't care if God uses a man, a woman, a donkey, a rock, a little kid, a stick, a car, etc.  Just give me the word and teach me how to be an effective Christian so that I can go out and demonstrate the power of God to others around me.

Honestly, sometimes I get soo tired of going to church for 2-3 hours and repeat the same thing throughout the week.  Don't get me wrong, I'm happy where God has placed me and the word goes forth.  I wish we'd come outside of the church building more, heal the sick more, lay hands on those that have faith just a little more, heal a little more, etc.


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## Nice & Wavy (Jul 26, 2009)

yodie said:


> T*hreads like these are interesting.  I just want the word of God.  I don't care if God uses a man, a woman, a donkey, a rock, a little kid, a stick, a car, etc.  Just give me the word and teach me how to be an effective Christian so that I can go out and demonstrate the power of God to others around me.*
> 
> Honestly, sometimes I get soo tired of going to church for 2-3 hours and repeat the same thing throughout the week.  Don't get me wrong, I'm happy where God has placed me and the word goes forth.  I wish we'd come outside of the church building more, heal the sick more, lay hands on those that have faith just a little more, heal a little more, etc.


ITA with the bolded.

There are many churches that don't stay inside, but go out and evangelize and lay hands on the sick, etc.  I know my church has been doing it for over 20 years.  Many churches don't and I'm sorry yours don't at this time.  Maybe you can talk to your pastor about your concerns about this and maybe you can come up with something that you can do that will enable the leaders and members of your church to begin to do it.  Can't hurt to ask, right?

Blessings...always.


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## Shimmie (Jul 27, 2009)

yodie said:


> Threads like these are interesting.  I just want the word of God.  I don't care if God uses a man, a woman, a donkey, a rock, a little kid, a stick, a car, etc.  Just give me the word and teach me how to be an effective Christian so that I can go out and demonstrate the power of God to others around me.
> 
> Honestly, sometimes I get soo tired of going to church for 2-3 hours and repeat the same thing throughout the week.  Don't get me wrong, I'm happy where God has placed me and the word goes forth.  I wish we'd come outside of the church building more, heal the sick more, lay hands on those that have faith just a little more, heal a little more, etc.


It can get quite 'stuffy' being closed in all the time.  Also we are called to take the 'Word' -- the Good News to the people -- the dry and dessert lands.   

Some may 'detour' to McDonalds or KFC or even Wendy's or 'Checkers', but they can bear witness there too.  Treat someone there to a meal and share Jesus or prayers of healing with them.


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## Zeal (Jul 27, 2009)

I had forgotten that I even started this thread and it is still going. Sometimes ladies, we are the only Jesus that someone will see.  So what does that tell you? I could go on and on. Once I get started... people are gong to know about the Lord's goodness. I agree with Yodie.  If a can of spray paint walked up to me and gave me a Rhema word, I would surely listen. I might wake up in glory afterward from shock! LOL! But I would surely be Ok.


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2009)

I just noticed the poll referred to female Deacons in it's question.  

My mom is a Deacon in her Church.  Although she hasn't been able to attend Church and participate in the Deacon activities (she's under medical care), she still carries the 'title' and is addressed and acknowledged as Deacon by her Church. 

Both she and my stepdad were appointed as Deacons together.  I never noticed any descrepancies as far as male above female.   I do know that the men were given the more 'involved' duties and women were never allowed to minister alone. It was always 'team' work.


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## CosmopolitanChic (Aug 15, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> I voted "Not sure" but leaning towards the side of "No" in regards to women being an overseer of the church or a deacon... here's why...
> 
> 1 Timothy 2:9 - 3:16 discusses instructions to women and it discusses the role and requirements of overseers and deacons in the church. Here is what I get from these scriptures and other scriptures I have read in the Bible...
> 
> ...


 
I do, I have no problem at all with a woman minister, evangelist, etc. However, I personally could not be under the leadership of a woman as an overseer or Sr. Pastor., based on the scriptures you provided above. Thanks


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 15, 2009)

i honestly believe women that are gifted with speech should speak at women's conferences, women's bible studies, women's sunday schools, private schools, etc.
as far as being leaders in a church? i think that is the mans position... I believe that in the home as well...
i believe that the men are good at being leaders, and women are good at making the men stronger and raising children... emotionally i believe this is how we're wired.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 17, 2009)

lol where are u guys...
killed another one lol


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## goldielocs (Aug 17, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> lol where are u guys...
> killed another one lol


 
 No dear, you didn't kill another one....

I agree with you. I know many women pastors and respect their work. I would never question their call to preach, but pastoring is another area.  This thread has gotten so long that I don't remember if I ever responded, but I don't agree with women pastors. I have no problem with attending a service in a church headed by a woman, but I would never join that congregation.

Titus 2 talks about roles of various groups of people in the community. For women it states...

vs3. Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but *to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their own husbands, so that no one will malign the Word of God.*

I take the bolded as being the area where women should focus ministry. Not because they cannot pastor a church well- there are many churches with women pastors which have thrived. But because the Bible gives women a focus - our families. When you look at the depth of what this scripture charges women to do, it's huge. There are many younger women who need that guidance and we don't always get it when we need it. 

I think part of the problem is that the home has been placed low on the priority list, children are viewed as liabilities rather than blessings and husbands have become the focus of ridicule and anger. I think the feminist movement has been the main factor promoting this attitude. There is no glass ceiling to break with God so there's nothing to prove.  Men and women are equal- we just have very different positions.


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## Crown (Aug 17, 2009)

Zeal said:


> The question is, Do you support women Pastors/preachers and/or deacons? If not why?



Women as *Pastors* : *No*! All the verses are already here.

Women as *preachers* : Not a specific term. Every christian can preach to the world. But, in the church? In my understanding, she can only if there is no man.
1 Tim.    2.11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.    2.12 *But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man*, but to be in silence.    2.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.    2.14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.    2.15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.  

Women as *deacons* : *Yes*! If deacon means servant.
Romans 16.1 I commend unto you *Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church* which is at Cenchrea:...


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 17, 2009)

goldielocs said:


> No dear, you didn't kill another one....
> 
> I agree with you. I know many women pastors and respect their work. I would never question their call to preach, but pastoring is another area.  This thread has gotten so long that I don't remember if I ever responded, but I don't agree with women pastors. I have no problem with attending a service in a church headed by a woman, but I would never join that congregation.
> 
> ...




PREACH!!!! Couldn't have said it better... God gives us no ceilings... In fact, i believe we have been given the most important job! I think that because women strive to be so independent that we have forgotten to nourish each other and our children which has placed a big strain on family... which I think is a direct result of absentee fathers...

I love that answer! Amen!


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## Premierepearl08 (Aug 17, 2009)

ITA with Goldielocks and Crown! My husband and I were talking about this a while ago and he brought up a good point. Why would God say that men are supposed to be the head of their own household and turn around and have a woman lead men in church. It doesn't seem to go together. We all know that women are PERFECTLY capable of running a church, business, etc. but we aren't to try to change what God has told us through Scripture. I do support women teaching other women and children, as well as discipling outside of the church. I do not agree with women in *permanent* roles of authority in the church though.

In the wake of the feminist movement we cannot become so liberated that we forget God's order, nor our primary role as women that Goldielocks stated above - caring for our family and the home. The Lord is helping me to become better equipped to take care of my family. However, I can't help but feel that if some sister in Christ somewhere, my mother or SOMEBODY, had been operating in her calling to "teach the younger women" I would have been taught what I needed to know about keeping a home instead of struggling so much.


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## Mamita (Aug 18, 2009)

^^^^^  I was just thinking of that about the man being the head. Why just the household?

i was actually thinking that about that new thread about why get married why not stay single

A woman is not supposed to struggle or have that much responsibility, having to account for other souls that's a man's job. 

We're both good, but at different things. I mean you don't want no leader PMSing lol and only men don't PMS lol

The Lord is not about confusion, everything He's said is perfect.

so if there's no confusion how can you turn to your advantage "a woman should learn in silence" and "the head of the woman is the man"

I'll never understand *shrug*


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## Poohbear (Aug 18, 2009)

Mamita said:


> ^^^^^  I was just thinking of that about the man being the head. Why just the household?
> 
> i was actually thinking that about that new thread about why get married why not stay single
> 
> ...


I guess it has to do with women needing to have more humility and submissiveness to the Word of God.

What God wants has been so distorted by world views of feminism and independence and pride.  We have single-mother homes, we have wives who are the "breadwinners" for the household, and we have very intelligent, brilliant women who are unmarried and taking care of themselves without a man. So things like women preachers and pastors will arise in times like these, but it doesn't mean it's right in God's eyes.


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## Miamori (Aug 18, 2009)

Scripturally, I believe women can PASTOR. She needs a male covering (Bishop) to serve as _her_ head. They cannot Bishop. 

This is what my study has led me to conclude.


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## Poohbear (Aug 18, 2009)

Miamori said:


> *Scripturally*, I believe women can PASTOR. She needs a male covering (Bishop) to serve as _her_ head. They cannot Bishop.
> 
> This is what my study has led me to conclude.


Can you provide the actual scripture from the Bible (no interpretations, just the scripture) that supports women can pastor? Thanks in advance!


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## anon123 (Aug 18, 2009)

I usually don't come in the Christian forum but this topic caught my eye, so I just want to ask one respectful question and leave.

For those who believe a woman cannot be in the pulpit because of a requirement that she not be the head, does this extend to all positions of authority?  For example, the principal of a school or the CEO of a company, etc.?  Or is this restricted to church, or the home and church?  Why or why not? Does it even extend to, for example, a woman teaching a man in a university, for those that cite passages about women not teaching men?

 Thanks.


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## Mamita (Aug 18, 2009)

in a nutshell teaching about salvation and teaching about wordly things is not the same.

as for CEO, i don't think it's a good idea for a woman to be bossing a lot of men around every day and trying to be a christian. Maybe not everybody but i don't know one holy ghost filled woman that was bossing around a lot of men.

A couple in her department yeah but more than that? i don't think it's good for the humility and ego problem women are more susceptible to have. that's all IMO of course

I think it's harder for a woman's pride to kneel down to the Lord after she's bossed men around all day. and not just the Lord but be totally subject to her husband and be just his help meet.


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## Crown (Aug 18, 2009)

mwedzi said:


> I usually don't come in the Christian forum but this topic caught my eye, so I just want to ask one respectful question and leave.
> 
> For those who believe a woman cannot be in the pulpit because of a requirement that she not be the head, does this extend to all positions of authority?  For example, the principal of a school or the CEO of a company, etc.?  Or is this restricted to church, or the home and church?  Why or why not? Does it even extend to, for example, a woman teaching a man in a university, for those that cite passages about women not teaching men?
> 
> Thanks.



Strictly, it's about home and church. But, I agree with the answer of Mamita.
It's about submission (husband) and humility (church). And obedience to God.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 18, 2009)

I am going to repeat this from something I've read:

***********************************
It has always been a strange doctrine that will allow women to go to foreign mission fields and teach heathen men, but will not allow the "heathen" men at home to be taught by the same women! It makes absolutely no sense to think that a female who is learned in the Scriptures cannot teach a male who is unlearned. Additionally, it is acceptable for many women to teach Sunday School to children, and for mothers to teach their sons. Where do we draw the line and say to the women that can no longer teach a male once they reach a certain age? This may seem like a ridiculous scenario, yet there are those in the church who teach along these lines.

*Those that are dogmatic in excluding women from the ministries of God usually are not walking in the Spirit, as they see women after the flesh (viewing her sex), not after the Spirit (seeing her heart and calling)*. *The Lord admonishes us in His Word that we are not to look at one another with regard to our sex, race, class or culture, but rather we are to see one another through spiritual eyes.*

_"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation: To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God"_ (2 Corinthians 5:16-20).

*God wants to use any person who will yield to His Spirit, regardless of that person's sex or capabilities. Those who are a new creature in Christ have His capabilities.*

*Our problem is that we must see there are rules for the fleshly, or earthly man, and there are rules for the spiritual man. Then, we must discern when to apply the appropriate Scripture.* We are admonished in 2 Timothy 2:15 to "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

*THE FIVE-FOLD MINISTRY*

The Lord gave the church gifts of His choosing in the form of men and women who would lead the church into perfection (Ephesians 4:8-12).

*It is the Lord who calls men and women to His ministry. He does not call special people, but the call goes out to "whosoever will." First, we are called to salvation; then as we walk in obedience to Him, He calls for us to be baptized in His Holy Spirit. As we continue to obey and follow Him, He then may choose us to serve Him in a full-time ministry. He chooses people for the ministry out of those who have walked in obedience to His other calls. He desires that all follow, but can only choose those who are obedient. These men and women who have answered the call are set in the ministry by Jesus Himself. Man's ordination does not qualify them, but the ordination of God does. Men will recognize those who are truly called by Him. They will even recognize women who are called of God as God empowers them with His anointing and power which cannot be denied.*

God has used many modern day women in His service as well as women spoken of in the Bible. Madame Guyon, Catherine Booth, Jessie Penn-Lewis, Aimee Semple McPherson, Corrie Ten Boom and Kathryn Kuhlman are only a few of the women on the list of great five-fold ministry gifts to the church. What are those gifts and that ministry? _*"And His gifts were (varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us,) some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers''*_ (Ephesians 4:11, Amplified Bible.).

When this Scripture says, "appointed and gave men to us," it does not mean just the male sex. The same man whom God created in the beginning which included male and female is the one referred to here. These "men" are both male and female and they have a responsibility to bring others into the maturity that they possess.

_*Ephesians 4 continues, "His intention was the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints (His consecrated people), [that they should do] the work of ministering toward building up Christ's body (the church), [That it might develop] until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the full and accurate knowledge of the Son of God; that [we might arrive] at really mature manhood....the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ's own perfection -- the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ, and the completeness found in Him''*_ (Ephesians 4:12-13, Amplified Bible.).

The Lord has lofty intentions for His men and women and desires that they come into perfection and maturity even as Christ walked in that perfection. The Lord sends those whom He chooses to bring about this maturing and perfecting. If we have been raised in a traditional church, the idea of coming into perfection may sound impossible--even heretical! However, _it is clearly a Biblical precedent and until we understand it we will not be able to understand God's full intention for His body._ The separation of laity and clergy is not God's plan for His people. *All that are called to salvation are called to a full-time ministry in the Lord.* This does not mean that all should leave their secular occupations, but all should devote their lives to the Lord and be as committed and active in witnessing, learning and growing in God as the leadership.

The leadership that God raises up is those men and women whom He trains for His work in the kingdom. Women have been limited in traditional churches to certain positions that men would give them, but the Lord is restoring His full five-fold ministry in these last days to prepare the body of Christ for His return.

***********************************

I'm not going to respond in this thread again.  I pray that all who still have reservations about Women Pastors, please reconsider your words and allow the Holy Spirit to awaken within you, a spirit of peace and hope, that YOU too will know your calling so that you aren't out of the will of GOD for your life.  As you do this, remember to be respectful in your posts in this thread about women who are following the plan of GOD for their lives!

Remember, GOD will not be mocked, for whatsoever a man sows, he shall also reap!

Keep your eyes on the One in whom WE have to do!

ETA:
*
WOMAN, THOU ART LOOSED!*​We pray that this teaching will encourage many women, who might otherwise relegate themselves to the "back burner" to instead step forward into the full calling of God upon their lives. Likewise, we pray that men who have been taught against letting women minister will see the truth of the fullness of God's plan. *No matter who we are in the Lord, we will be held responsible for how we treated others and how we either hindered or helped the cause of Christ on Earth.* Those in leadership especially need to heed this warning with reverent fear. *Just because we have believed something our whole life, or because our denomination or culture teaches us so, doesn't mean it is correct. If you have a problem with seeing women in the pulpit, or in any position of leadership, we pray that you will prayerfully seek the Lord with an open heart on this issue.*

In conclusion, let us read the following promise from the prophet Joel. This prophesy was initially fulfilled at Pentecost, and as we draw closer to the End, we can expect to see it fulfilled in even greater measures.
_*
Acts 2:17-21, "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."*_


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## missann (Aug 18, 2009)

Mamita said:


> as for CEO, i don't think it's a good idea for a woman to be bossing a lot of men around every day and trying to be a christian. Maybe not everybody but i don't know one holy ghost filled woman that was bossing around a lot of men.
> 
> A couple in her department yeah but more than that? i don't think it's good for the humility and ego problem women are more susceptible to have. that's all IMO of course
> 
> I think it's harder for a woman's pride to kneel down to the Lord after she's bossed men around all day. and not just the Lord but be totally subject to her husband and be just his help meet.



So do you believe ambition (for a woman) is not of God?  Also, is it OK for a man to prideful (since he is bossing all day)?


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 18, 2009)

mwedzi said:


> I usually don't come in the Christian forum but this topic caught my eye, so I just want to ask one respectful question and leave.
> 
> For those who believe a woman cannot be in the pulpit because of a requirement that she not be the head, does this extend to all positions of authority?  For example, the principal of a school or the CEO of a company, etc.?  Or is this restricted to church, or the home and church?  Why or why not? Does it even extend to, for example, a woman teaching a man in a university, for those that cite passages about women not teaching men?
> 
> Thanks.



I think this is for church...
now...
i don't like to work for women... i think they make emotional decisions...
thats just me though. i think we should be teachers, principals, ceos, etc if that is our dream... but in church... male leaders...

at my church the women run the school and do an exceptional job. the men run the church... there are ladies that work in the church, but no leadership... i think that is the way it belongs.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 18, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I am going to repeat this from something I've read:
> 
> ***********************************
> It has always been a strange doctrine that will allow women to go to foreign mission fields and teach heathen men, but will not allow the "heathen" men at home to be taught by the same women! It makes absolutely no sense to think that a female who is learned in the Scriptures cannot teach a male who is unlearned. Additionally, it is acceptable for many women to teach Sunday School to children, and for mothers to teach their sons. Where do we draw the line and say to the women that can no longer teach a male once they reach a certain age? This may seem like a ridiculous scenario, yet there are those in the church who teach along these lines.
> ...



um didn't quote the whole thing, cuz it was very long...

but female ministers are fine...

females can minister to people, bring people to Christ...

My mother is a nurse and she ministers every day
I have led the praise team... that was ministry... 
the verses you quoted obviously mean that these are great for a women to do...

However, the bible clearly says a women shouldn't pastor a church...

what do you think of the verses that *clearly* say that a woman shouldn't pastor a church?
just wondering.
respectfully wanting to know...


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## goldielocs (Aug 19, 2009)

I usually don't come in the Christian forum but this topic caught my eye, so I just want to ask one respectful question and leave.

 For those who believe a woman cannot be in the pulpit because of a requirement that she not be the head, does this extend to all positions of authority? For example, the principal of a school or the CEO of a company, etc.? Or is this restricted to church, or the home and church? Why or why not? Does it even extend to, for example, a woman teaching a man in a university, for those that cite passages about women not teaching men?

Thanks.

I think it applies specifically to the church and spiritual situations. It's just not in order according scripture. 

So do you believe ambition (for a woman) is not of God? Also, is it OK for a man to prideful (since he is bossing all day)? 

Definately not! There is nothing wrong with ambition! Our first priority is home- that's all. I'm working on my MA right now which with help me advance my education career. BUT, I'm doing it online so I can homeschool my daughter and manage my home while my hubby works. Home comes first for me. When I'm done with my MA, I'll work in a position that allows my family to still be the first priority. Maybe I'll teach online or start a tutoring business or coach new homeschooling moms- who knows?

I believe that whatever you do- male or female- do so with wisdom. No one wants to be bossed by anyone. Pride in any situation is wrong. One should have a servent's heart when managing or leading. So whether or not a supervisor is male or female, they need to be respectful and avoid pride at all costs. Pride is actually the opposite of wisdom. Proverbs 8:12-14 says "I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence; I possess knowledge and discretion, To fear the Lord is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech. Counsel and sound judgement are mine; I have understanding and power." 

So is it ok for ANYONE to be prideful? Nope.

From Nice and Wavy- I'm not going to respond in this thread again. I pray that all who still have reservations about Women Pastors, *please reconsider your words and allow the Holy Spirit to awaken within you, a spirit of peace and hope, that YOU too will know your calling so that you aren't out of the will of GOD for your life.* *As you do this, remember to be respectful in your posts in this thread about women who are following the plan of GOD for their lives!*

Remember, GOD will not be mocked, for whatsoever a man sows, he shall also reap!


Keep your eyes on the One in whom WE have to do! 

*To the bolded*- That's a huge assumption to make. Since it's just a waste of time to get offended, I'll just leave with this statement. As I stated before, I don't question anyone's call. It's not my place. Also keep in mind that you shouldn't either. 

I am happy to be a wife, mother, sister, daughter and friend who is able and willing to share my love of Christ to whoever I encounter. I am willing and content to do so as long as God desires.  My one and only ambition is to be what He desires for me to be. As you stated, we sow what we reap. The only thing I've sown so far concerning this topic is scripture and my views- no ill-feelings or negative statements.

Take care and be blessed.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 19, 2009)

goldielocs said:


> *To the bolded*- That's a huge assumption to make. Since it's just a waste of time to get offended, I'll just leave with this statement. As I stated before, I don't question anyone's call. It's not my place. Also keep in mind that you shouldn't either.
> 
> I am happy to be a wife, mother, sister, daughter and friend who is able and willing to share my love of Christ to whoever I encounter. I am willing and content to do so as long as God desires.  My one and only ambition is to be what He desires for me to be. As you stated, we sow what we reap. The only thing I've sown so far concerning this topic is scripture and my views- no ill-feelings or negative statements.
> 
> Take care and be blessed.



thank you for saying what i was having trouble saying  i agree wholeheartedly


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## Shimmie (Aug 19, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I am going to repeat this from something I've read:
> 
> ***********************************
> It has always been a strange doctrine that will allow women to go to foreign mission fields and teach heathen men, but will not allow the "heathen" men at home to be taught by the same women! It makes absolutely no sense to think that a female who is learned in the Scriptures cannot teach a male who is unlearned. Additionally, it is acceptable for many women to teach Sunday School to children, and for mothers to teach their sons. Where do we draw the line and say to the women that can no longer teach a male once they reach a certain age? This may seem like a ridiculous scenario, yet there are those in the church who teach along these lines.
> ...


Good word! 

When my heart was first set on fire for the Lord, I was ministering to everyone who has an ear to ear. It didn't matter where I was, I ministered. The thing is, I didn't know that I was ministering, until my Pastor revealed this to me. 

Had I been 'silent', there are men who may not be alive today or not at home with their wives and families. Had I been silent.....  

I never asked to be in the forefront, I was 'content' to be quiet and non verbal and just quietly pray. 

God has other plans and that's how He is using me. I never 'seek' to be in the forefront, it's always by His call. And I'm always ready to Minister whatever it is that God has called me to share which He has placed into my heart. 

Had I been silent who's to say what life God (not me) *but GOD* wanted to save that day. He has a work for us all in divers places and annointings. Be we 'men' or women' we yield to His call, be it in or out of the Pulpit. 

I know of several women whose husbands passed away and the annointing of Pastor, leader of the Church , the 'Mantle' was placed upon them to continue God's work. They were called, as women, they were called to Pastor and they flourish as they follow the Lord with a yielded heart and spirit. And I respect them. There are 'Husband and Wife' who work together as a team, whom God has called and annointed them as such. And I respect them. 

_Whosoever will......let them come and drink freely of the waters of life. Whatever 'vessel' God uses... Whosoever will. :Rose: _


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## Mamita (Aug 19, 2009)

Goldilocs basically answered for me about ambition

as for Nice and Wavy I'll just repeat what you said i hope THEE Holy Spirit will awaken in you one day etc...

and yeah you're right He will not be mocked, His divine order either, nothing new under the sun, and He's the same YESTERDAY TODAY AND TOMORROW, in every thing He said.

BTW Ephesians 4:11 never mentioned women, only the new interpretative translations do, and His word is not to be messed with...


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## Crown (Aug 19, 2009)

> ... please reconsider your words and allow the Holy Spirit to awaken within you, a spirit of peace and hope, that YOU too will know your calling so that you aren't out of the will of GOD for your life.  As you do this, remember to be respectful in your posts in this thread about women who are following the plan of GOD for their lives!
> 
> Remember, GOD will not be mocked, for whatsoever a man sows, he shall also reap!
> 
> Keep your eyes on the One in whom WE have to do!


Available for all of us!
Acts 17.11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that *they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so*.

 Just because someone believes in what is written in the Scriptures does not mean this person is disrespectful. Please!
Romans 14.12 *So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.*

We are all here for sharing our beliefs. I am blessed so many times in reading or sharing. 
*Blessings for all of us!*


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 19, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> .
> *I know of several women whose husbands passed away and the annointing of Pastor, leader of the Church , the 'Mantle' was placed upon them to continue God's work. *They were called, as women, they were called to Pastor and they flourish as they follow the Lord with a yielded heart and spirit. And I respect them. There are 'Husband and Wife' who work together as a team, whom God has called and annointed them as such. And I respect them.
> 
> _Whosoever will......let them come and drink freely of the waters of life. Whatever 'vessel' God uses... Whosoever will. :Rose: _



Did the mantle get passed or did they think the mantle got passed? I think when this happens then God desires for the widow to act as the church matriarch and ensure that his sheep have a leader for the flock, whether it be her son, nephew, cousin, whoever... I don't think God means for the women to take that burden... its not meant for us to do!

*If you could please address how the bolded is biblical that would be great. *Thanks... I stand to be corrected, I'm younger than most of you guys... please teach a sista


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 19, 2009)

bump...
bump...
bump...


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## Mortons (Aug 20, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> Did the mantle get passed or did they think the mantle got passed? I think when this happens then God desires for the widow to act as the church matriarch and ensure that his sheep have a leader for the flock, whether it be her son, nephew, cousin, whoever... I don't think God means for the women to take that burden... its not meant for us to do!
> 
> *If you could please address how the bolded is biblical that would be great. *Thanks... I stand to be corrected, I'm younger than most of you guys... please teach a sista



How are any people of God sure of anything? A woman is just as capable of hearing the Word of God as a man is, so why is she not as capable of delivering it?


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 20, 2009)

Mortons said:


> How are any people of God sure of anything? A woman is just as capable of hearing the Word of God as a man is, so why is she not as capable of delivering it?



for me its not delivering the message, such as preaching a sermon, per say...
i don't think a women should pastor a church... as in, be the shepherd for the flock of sheep...
that said... i wanna see in the bible where its ok, and i just can't find it...

he doesn't say we can't preach though... I've heard great female speakers... 

unfortunately the examples of female pastors that I have been exposed to have all shown me that it is a man's job... I truly believe God didn't make us for that


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## momi (Aug 20, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> Did the mantle get passed or did they think the mantle got passed? I think when this happens then God desires for the widow to act as the church matriarch and ensure that his sheep have a leader for the flock, whether it be her son, nephew, cousin, whoever... I don't think God means for the women to take that burden... its not meant for us to do!
> 
> *If you could please address how the bolded is biblical that would be great. *Thanks... I stand to be corrected, I'm younger than most of you guys... please teach a sista


 
I woud like to know this as well... I know this is a sensitive topic for many, but in this and every other circumstance we should all seek what the bible says about a thing.  We all have our personal opinions about how something should be handled, but in the end we have to apply the word of God, not a feeling or desire.

Does anyone have any scriptual refrences of a woman being an apostle or elder? I believe I know of one where a woman was a deacon.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 20, 2009)

momi said:


> I woud like to know this as well... I know this is a sensitive topic for many, but in this and every other circumstance we should all seek what the bible says about a thing.  We all have our personal opinions about how something should be handled, but in the end we have to apply the word of God, not a feeling or desire.
> 
> Does anyone have any scriptual refrences of a woman being an apostle or elder? I believe I know of one where a woman was a deacon.




me too... i never saw a female pastor in the bible...

esther however did a great job being courageous... i love her! i have a painting of the situation in my room...
she was however coming up beside her man... not leading him...

still waiting...


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## Poohbear (Aug 20, 2009)

music-bnatural-smile said:


> still waiting...


 Me too! Based on the scriptures I have read in the Bible, women can be disciples, ministers, evangelists, missionary workers, and teachers. But I want to see actual scriptures that show that women can be *pastors and overseers* of a church.  No opinions or interpretations or internet "copy and paste" material. Just straight scripture from the Bible.


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 20, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> Me too! Based on the scriptures I have read in the Bible, women can be disciples, ministers, evangelists, missionary workers, and teachers. But I want to see actual scriptures that show that women can be *pastors and overseers* of a church.  *No opinions or interpretations or internet "copy and paste" material. Just straight scripture from the Bible.*



yes to the bolded... something real please! where my seminary folks at


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## pebbles (Aug 20, 2009)

Thread closed. Thanks!


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