# How do you feel about white women being a part of the natural hair community?



## Lia3257 (Jun 30, 2014)

Saw this article from Ebony.com on my Facebook page. What are your thoughts? 

http://www.ebony.com/style/white-women-on-teamnatural-no-thanks-405#ixzz369Mi5TC0

Article in first comment, it is kind of long.


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## Lia3257 (Jun 30, 2014)

The Article: 
Community is important. Black spaces are important, and in the era of self-proclaimed “New Blacks” and the gentrification of both Black popular culture and neighborhoods, they are increasingly rare. So when the sacred sanctity of Black Girl Space was violated via the inclusion of a White woman on a natural hair blog, it should come as no surprise that a number of people were disappointed. And I'll admit, I was one of them.

First, let me acknowledge the beauty, power and significance of seeing Black women embracing the concept of natural hair by the droves. The idea that our hair requires alteration by damaging relaxers and heat styling is but one of tragic White supremacist myths we’ve internalized and the further we get from there, the better. Furthermore, the community that has been fostered by sisters (both on and offline) over this rebirth of Black hair is beautiful, to say the least.

However, I’ve had some conflicted feelings about the natural hair movement for quite some time and this recent feature on the popular Nikki Walton's wildly-popular Curly Nikki site highlighting the hair journey of a White woman brings my biggest complaint about so much of what has come to define this cultural phenomenon to light.

I’ve been surprised and disappointed to see how much of the natural hair movement has centered on “curly” hair, when that isn’t hardly the most common hair type among our people. Until recently, due largely to the efforts of bloggers/vloggers like Jouelzy and the team at 4C Hair Chick, who have taken up the charge of highlighting kinkier hair textures, there has been too much visual representation of sisters who have what has been described as “multicultural hair.” No shade to biracial women or those of us who get asked “What are you mixed with?” because of their hair texture, but the natural hair movement is at its most powerful when it encourages sisters to celebrate all our biologically-determined hair textures, not just the ones seen in rap videos.
To be fair to Walton, her site is not about Black hair or Black power. The "About" page states "CurlyNikki.com was created to serve as an online 'hair therapy session' for those struggling to embrace their naturally curly hair." Her mission is clear: affirming those who wish to embrace a certain hair texture. But I think it's worth considering what sort of precedent could be set here if more bloggers embrace an inclusive approach to natural hair.

This is the era of ‘total market’ America and when culture starts making dollars, it starts losing sense. So it should not come as a surprise that curly hair can be positioned as a rallying point that unifies women of different races underneath the banner of giving hair care companies our money, and giving financial opportunities to content creators who are willing to expand their audience beyond the Black women who made them relevant in the first place. Personally, I don’t expect hair bloggers to be Black Nationalist feminists simply because they rock Afros, but I do hope they all know the consequences that often befall folks who cease to dance with the folks who brought them to the party. Hair is emotional territory for many Black women and while we may be able to share products with White women, we needn’t share a movement that should be centered on overcoming the unique challenges that are thrown our way because of White people.

Throughout our time in this country, we have created culture and space where we are able to affirm and uplift ourselves in face of efforts to quell our creativity, destroy our spirits and control our bodies. Today, though our access to the world around us has expanded tremendously, we are consistently being told that we are unable to have anything to ourselves---and that everything we create is not simply ripe for integration, but rather, appropriation and domination by Whiteness. Our music, our fashions, our foods, everything that is uniquely ours is seized upon until it is no longer uniquely ours. Imagine if America loved Black people as much as it loves the products of Black labor. We wouldn’t have to plead a case for reparations, they’d be directly deposited on the 1st and 15th from the National Bank of W.E.B. DuBois.

But let’s go back to hair, something that is seen as trivial by those who’ve never struggled with it (and even by Black men who’d never let their hair grow more than ½ an inch, but don’t think they have any hair issues.) It’s real cute to have a White girl on a natural hair blog, because diversity! But what happens when all that advertiser revenue and all those cool perks and opportunities that are currently afforded to a handful of Black bloggers start going elsewhere? When someone who doesn’t look like us becomes the biggest Bantu Knot and braid-out expert on YouTube?

Being a White woman with curly hair, or freckles, or who wears a “plus” size may come with the challenge of not seeing oneself reflected consistently and adequately in the mainstream media’s uber-limiting beauty standards. That does not negate the need for Black women (or Asian women, or Latino women…) to have spaces from which we are protected from the White gaze and able to do and be US.  The idea that Sarah’s hair journey would provide her entry to what seemed like a safe place for Black women, under the tag “natural hair icon” is almost comical (her journey to accepting her hair texture basically involved her going from wearing a bun to wearing her hair down), and certainly sad. Her response to critics on Twitter makes it even clearer that she really needn’t sit with us:

Because how dare Black women be exclusive? How dare anything be for us?
Alas, Curly Nikki is obviously not a Black woman’s space and it’s not my job to tell its creator that it has to be one (nor does that mean that it can’t be a source of affirmation for Black women.) However, I think we all need to consider the need for us to have places that we go to that are exclusive, be they physical, via technology or otherwise. We often confuse integration with equality and acceptance, when we are so often the ones who find ourselves left out in the cold.  I assure you that a White woman with silky, curly hair will be just fine if we’d rather keep our hair chatter to ourselves.  

Jamilah Lemieux is EBONY.com's Senior Editor. Views expressed here are her own.


Read more at EBONY http://www.ebony.com/style/white-women-on-teamnatural-no-thanks-405#ixzz36AEn7r2V 
Follow us: EbonyMag on Twitter | EbonyMag on Facebook


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## Subscribe (Jun 30, 2014)

Nothing new. They are amongst us on this board.  ****WAVES****


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## LuciaAbigail (Jun 30, 2014)

I love it! Made me excited to visit CurkyNikki for the first time in years.


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## Destiny9109 (Jun 30, 2014)

^^Is this shade lol?

Subscribe


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## atlien11 (Jun 30, 2014)

No issues with it.


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## robot. (Jun 30, 2014)

I'm not with it.


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## NaturallyATLPCH (Jun 30, 2014)

Lord have mercy.


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## Dilettante (Jun 30, 2014)

I'm not about it.  Maybe that makes me racist 

There are *so* many more hair resources for white people.  Most products are designed for white people.  Most cosmetologists are taught how to work with white hair.  Most of the what we know about hair is based on studies done on white people.  Black ladies didn't start making black hair blogs just to feel exclusive - they did it because there was a serious lack.  

That being said I don't care who's on Curly Nikki because that's not a blog that interests me.  I would be sad if it became the norm though.


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## LuciaAbigail (Jun 30, 2014)

Haha yes, but unintentionally! So many of her blog posts seem to be all about self promotion.


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## Froreal3 (Jun 30, 2014)

I don't quite understand the purpose and reasoning. 

Next, we should have a WET tv station I guess.  or HWCUs (oh but we already have those...they're called regla tv and regla schools).


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## kimpaur (Jun 30, 2014)

White women have absolutely NO need in any shape or form to be a part of this movement.


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## DoDo (Jun 30, 2014)

Dilettante said:


> I'm not about it.  Maybe that makes me racist
> 
> There are *so* many more hair resources for white people.  Most products are designed for white people.  Most cosmetologists are taught how to work with white hair.  Most of the what we know about hair is based on studies done on white people.  Black ladies didn't start making black hair blogs just to feel exclusive - they did it because there was a serious lack.
> 
> That being said* I don't care who's on Curly Nikki because that's not a blog that interests me.*  I would be sad if it became the norm though.





LuciaAbigail said:


> Haha yes, but unintentionally! *So many of her blog posts seem to be all about self promotion.*




At the bold, this is exactly how I feel.


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## Divine. (Jun 30, 2014)

I kind of agree. Why can't we just have something of our own? The second we develop something great in our community, it doesn't take very long before it's no longer ours. Our own culture isn't even respected. Other people always get credit for the things we create. And we willing let it happen. 

Non-blacks have no problem excluding us, so why shouldn't we be exclusive as well? The whole natural movement in the grand scheme of things isn't such a big deal. But it just goes to show how inclusive we are as a race. We go out our way to accept everyone when no one bats an eye to accept us.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 30, 2014)

My answer depends on whether or not Lorraine Massey was the original person to bring conditioner washing into the natural mainstream.


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## SlimPickinz (Jun 30, 2014)

Y'all sure do love white people around here.


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## tinycoils (Jun 30, 2014)

I can't believe how negative some of you sound.  What is wrong with them learning about our hair.  I think it is good to learn about other cultures.  We sure know a lot about Indian haircare......


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## Platinum (Jun 30, 2014)

Destiny9109 said:


> ^^Is this shade lol?
> 
> Subscribe



I know this comment wasn't directed toward me but I know we had at least one WW on the board a few years ago. I think her name was Sarah. (?)


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## Lia3257 (Jun 30, 2014)

The thing is, Curly Nikki is owned by Naturally Curly so, she can't really be "all black everything". Naturally Curly is owned by white women. 

I should say owned by the brand that owns Naturally Curly but, I can't remember the name.

Also, isn't it a white woman that invented the "curly girl method" that so many women love?

You can't use their platform, use their knowledge and then say they aren't allowed... 

I get wanting something "our" own but, it's too late for that.


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## Subscribe (Jun 30, 2014)

Destiny9109 said:


> ^^Is this shade lol?
> 
> Subscribe



No shade. Truth.

Let me add, It doesn't bother me at all


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## Dilettante (Jun 30, 2014)

tinycoils said:


> I can't believe how negative some of you sound.  What is wrong with them learning about our hair.  I think it is good to learn about other cultures.  We sure know a lot about Indian haircare......



That's such a false dichotomy.  Wanting spaces to celebrate and discuss black natural hair exclusively does not mean that I don't want white women to learn about our hair (I don't really care if they _do_ learn about it, but I'm not against it).

All it means is that I don't want to go back to the way things were years ago when my hair was fried and breaking off I had nowhere to turn because what little information there was for black haircare was drowned out in a sea of white-centric advice.


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## xu93texas (Jun 30, 2014)

tinycoils said:


> I can't believe how negative some of you sound.  What is wrong with them learning about our hair.  I think it is good to learn about other cultures.  We sure know a lot about Indian haircare......



I agree with this. Maybe this woman has had a hard time accepting her "natural" hair that grows out of her scalp. Maybe she's gleaning info from the natural hair movement in the black community to help her come to terms with her hair. I work with a young Jewish woman with beautiful, thick, red hair. She would always keep it in a bun or ponytail b/c she didn't like her unruly, curly hair. She would get keratin treatments just so she could have that smooth sleek look .  Sounds familiar?!! After about a year of bugging her to start wearing her hair down and coaxing her how to take care of her curly hair (she now uses DevaCurl products and follows the CG method), she is in LOVE with her hair.  She gets compliments all the time now! 

As for as Curly Nikki is concerned, it's her blog and she can feature whomever she wants. I'm not a fan and really don't care.

And all this talk about "something for ourselves" is nonsense.   I really don't think black people can have anything "exclusively ". All we do is cause division amongst ourselves. All these posts about good hair/bad hair;  loose curl/kinky curl; light skin/ dark skin; not being happy genuinely for a sister "doing her thang".


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 30, 2014)

Lia3257 said:


> Also, isn't it a white woman that invented the "curly girl method" that so many women love?
> 
> You can't use their platform, use their knowledge and then say they aren't allowed...



That's what I was getting at. I am positive that Nappturality didn't invent co-washing, but giving up shampoo was the first thing new naturals were advised to do.


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## tinycoils (Jun 30, 2014)

Dilettante said:


> That's such a false dichotomy.  Wanting spaces to celebrate and discuss black natural hair exclusively does not mean that I don't want white women to learn about our hair (I don't really care if they _do_ learn about it, but I'm not against it).
> 
> All it means is that I don't want to go back to the way things were years ago when my hair was fried and breaking off I had nowhere to turn because what little information there was for black haircare was drowned out in a sea of white-centric advice.



Why on earth would we ever go back to that time.  We have come leaps and bounds even from when I stop relaxing which was over 13 years ago.  The only way your hair could go back to that is if you make the choice to do so.  Sharing of  hair experiences is a good thing


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## cocosweet (Jun 30, 2014)

Divine. said:


> I kind of agree. *Why can't we just have something of our own? The second we develop something great in our community, it doesn't take very long before it's no longer ours. *Our own culture isn't even respected. Other people always get credit for the things we create. And we willing let it happen.
> 
> *Non-blacks have no problem excluding us, so why shouldn't we be exclusive as well?* The whole natural movement in the grand scheme of things isn't such a big deal. But it just goes to show how inclusive we are as a race. We go out our way to accept everyone when no one bats an eye to accept us.


My completely non PC gut response?




The bolded is at the core of my feelings.


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## Divine. (Jun 30, 2014)

I can't relate to Curly Nikki or her blog so who she showcases doesn't bother me. My response was in reference to the article's final paragraph:



> Alas, Curly Nikki is obviously not a Black woman’s space and it’s not my job to tell its creator that it has to be one (nor does that mean that it can’t be a source of affirmation for Black women.)* However, I think we all need to consider the need for us to have places that we go to that are exclusive, be they physical, via technology or otherwise. We often confuse integration with equality and acceptance, when we are so often the ones who find ourselves left out in the cold.* I assure you that a White woman with silky, curly hair will be just fine if we’d rather keep our hair chatter to ourselves.



I 100% agree with the bolded. I'm actually surprised more people don't feel this way.


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## IDareT'sHair (Jun 30, 2014)

No, No and No. I can't get down with that.  I come here to talk to "My Sistas' all over the Country & the World.

 If I wanted to talk to 'them' about Hair Care, I could talk to any ol' "Becky" at work.

 This is a place where 'we' can come and talk about what we want, how we want.


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## ellebelle88 (Jun 30, 2014)

Lia3257 said:


> The thing is, Curly Nikki is owned by Naturally Curly so, she can't really be "all black everything". Naturally Curly is owned by white women.
> 
> I should say owned by the brand that owns Naturally Curly but, I can't remember the name.
> 
> ...



CurlyNikki doesn't have to say that they aren't included. She can just choose not to include them. I'm sure Naturally Curly wasn't running to her and saying, "please include white women on your website." They knew her site's mission and agenda. CurlyNikki decided to do that. 

Also, yes we can want and have something of our own. So what a white woman invented one method that some of us use? We've had to use and adapt the limited knowledge we have on our hair via the only knowledge we have of white people's hair.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 30, 2014)

IDareT'sHair said:


> No, No and No. I can't get down with that.  I come here to talk to "My Sistas' all over the Country & the World.
> 
> If I wanted to talk to 'them' about Hair Care, I could talk to any ol' "Becky" at work.
> 
> This is a place where 'we' can come and talk about what we want, how we want.



Oh if this place turned into Curly Nikki, I'd have another board open and ready to go with a discount price of $5/year and a sex forum.  I'd be checking black cards at the door.


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## ellebelle88 (Jun 30, 2014)

Hmmm,,,this is exactly why I was so adamant in the MahoganyCurls thread about more representation. To be completely honest, something about CurlyNikki comes off as disingenuous to me. She seems very fake. And with this little stunt, she proves she's an easy sellout. I really hope you all stop supporting her website. Didn't she start out here anyway?


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## ellebelle88 (Jun 30, 2014)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Oh if this place turned into Curly Nikki, I'd have another board open and ready to go with a discount price of $5/year and a sex forum.  I'd be checking black cards at the door.



Honey, please keep me on your private list of people to inform about your new board because I assure you, the next thing that's going to happen is that more white women will discover black haircare boards and will come on here causing drama asking questions like, "Why are Black women so jealous of me and my Black boyfriend?", or "Why can't people just accept that Iggy Azalea is like the hottest female rapper out right now?" and "Do these jeans give me Black girl booty?" This will no longer be a safe space to talk about issues related to Black women or the Black race, or Black relationships.


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## lookingforkeona (Jun 30, 2014)

I could not care less. If there were threads on here for/by white people with 3a/b hair, I'd skip over them just like I skip over the relaxed hair threads.


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## ellebelle88 (Jun 30, 2014)

Another thing--did she seek out CurlyNikki's site and then submitted that interview? Like why did she want so desperately to be featured on a Black haircare site? There are plenty of hair forums for white women. It baffles me how white women feel as if they belong in everything Black women do. Her hair has never been a "struggle" for her. She never lost a job, a date, or was called "unclean" because of her hair. She simply changed her hairstyle. I'm convinced this is all about privilege and showing her hair as "Better." I'm side-eying both her and CurlyNikki for this foolishness.


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## lookingforkeona (Jun 30, 2014)

Also, what about the mixed ladies on here? How are they supposed to feel about all this exclusivity talk?


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## krissyhair (Jun 30, 2014)

lookingforkeona said:


> Also, what about the mixed ladies on here? How are they supposed to feel about all this exclusivity talk?



Only the black half can be a member -_-


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## kimpaur (Jun 30, 2014)

Some of you kill me. You can't sit here and pretend that white women and black women both experience the same struggles. There's a certain _politics_ surrounding black hair for God's sake. White women could never know that struggle, especially considering that they and their hair are the standard of beauty in this country. I went natural back in HS and my own Mother refused to let me at first, I had to pour my heart out to her to even consider letting me do it. My whole immediate family thought I was crazy at the time, there was _no_ support. The first time I wore it out at school I was teased mercilessly and got sooo many stares. How many white women can truly understand that?
I say all this to say, that the Natural Hair Movement was created for things like these. It created a space and a presence that did not exist at the time but was so very necessary. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep that a "black" thing or whatever you may want to call it, because the reality is that that _*is*_ what it is, a *black* thing.


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## MzRhonda (Jun 30, 2014)

Divine. said:


> I can't relate to Curly Nikki or her blog so who she showcases doesn't bother me. My response was in reference to the article's final paragraph:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



An example of the bolded is Education......we wanted to integrate to have equal access and opportunity instead we had integration, for the most part,  without equality and acceptance. My opinion.


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## JaneBond007 (Jun 30, 2014)

Someone needs define "curly" hair to her because most Black people do have curly hair - just, very tightly curled hair.  I remember the beginnings of this movement and all the people running to Lorraine Massey for advice for her methods on how to treat all types of curly hair, buying her book and demonstrating her techniques on YT.  Thing is, white people or other ethnicities of curly hair DO get discriminated against, mainly at work, for their natural hairtype.  Maybe there should be a harbinger preventing white takeover of the movement that was started in the BC...but then again, Lorraine Massey didn't consult the BC to promote her ideas and her book.  I think it just developed around the same time.  There is going to be crossover as we all live in the same country.  Just look at the "long hair forum" that many LHCF people belong to.  It's mostly white.  Should they shut out Blacks?    Strength is in numbers and there will always be various categories of needs.


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## southerncitygirl (Jun 30, 2014)

Slimpicknz

You ain't neva lied, chile. How are you and your beautiful hurr, cuteness? You got plans for the 4th?


Our ppl are so twisted by white supremacy we jump through hoops and hurdles to appease white folks and tell them all our bidness including stuff meant to be solely "kitchen talk". White folks have their own errthang as do Jews, Hispanics, Asians, etc. When Black Americans want to do this our own people as well as white folks guilt us into thinking we are racist and should be be all Kumbaya even though white continue to put their feet on on necks A white girls struggle will never be mine, even in regards to hair. White gal type 2 & 3 hair doesn't typically look or behave like ours. I don't care about their issues cause they run this world and terrorize everyone they can in the process of getting what they want or even if they don't agree they sit in silence and allow it to happen.  There is no white supremacy without white women, period.This situation is unique cause Nikki opted to sell to a white company and I'm not sure if she gave up all creative control and input. I hate when whites diminish our struggle. She shouldn't be allowed on there. She like other whites can read a plethora of books on the cultural/political context of our hair issues  like Hair Story. Of course they wouldn't cause it would be a bitter pill to swallow in regards to the post traumatic slave syndrome and inter-generational trauma they have caused.


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## cocosweet (Jul 1, 2014)

JaneBond007,

What happened to the other guy you had in your siggy? This dude is kind of rough on the retnas.

Signed,

CrazySlothLady


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## JaneBond007 (Jul 1, 2014)

cocosweet said:


> @JaneBond007,
> 
> What happened to the other guy you had in your siggy? This dude is kind of rough on the retnas.
> 
> ...





I just choked!!!   But he's a brain and I like him.    The other guy was kinda giving me the creeps after awhile  with his Sanpaku eyes and the butter which I playfully coined "the original curl juice" was kinda making me heave.  It was looking all rancid in a bigger pic.  I'll try and find someone else


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## GoldenRule (Jul 1, 2014)

LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.


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## Lia3257 (Jul 1, 2014)

ellebelle88 said:


> CurlyNikki doesn't have to say that they aren't included. She can just choose not to include them. I'm sure Naturally Curly wasn't running to her and saying, "please include white women on your website." They knew her site's mission and agenda. CurlyNikki decided to do that.
> 
> Also, yes we can want and have something of our own. So what a white woman invented one method that some of us use? We've had to use and adapt the limited knowledge we have on our hair via the only knowledge we have of white people's hair.



I have no idea how submissions like this work on CN. I don't read her blog that much anymore.

I see nothing wrong with an exclusive black natural hair site at all but, it isn't exclusively ours if it is laden with tips, books, products, blogs, websites, methods, etc. by them.


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## JaneBond007 (Jul 1, 2014)

That's not ever been my experience over there.  Who suggested getting a sub-forum, the owner?  I'm shocked because I've never witnessed that behavior there and have seen quite a few posts with people fully identifying their African hair texture and getting all types of helpful responses (water method, conditioners etc.).  It could be that I joined this all a bit later?


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## GoldenRule (Jul 1, 2014)

JaneBond007 said:


> That's not ever been my experience over there.  Who suggested getting a sub-forum, the owner?  I'm shocked because I've never witnessed that behavior there and have seen quite a few posts with people fully identifying their African hair texture and getting all types of helpful responses (water method, conditioners etc.).  It could be that I joined this all a bit later?



This was circa 2001 JaneBond007

Some of the original members would remember but I haven't seen too many. The start date of October, 2002 was due to a major upgrade of sorts. We actually existed PRIOR to that in another space.


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## cocosweet (Jul 1, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.


I haven't had a hostile experience when I do go over there but I stumbled onto LHC well after 2001.

I'm glad Beverly took the initiative.

Wow.


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## koolkittychick (Jul 1, 2014)

ellebelle88 said:


> Another thing--did she seek out CurlyNikki's site and then submitted that interview? Like why did she want so desperately to be featured on a Black haircare site? There are plenty of hair forums for white women. It baffles me how white women feel as if they belong in everything Black women do. Her hair has never been a "struggle" for her. She never lost a job, a date, or was called "unclean" because of her hair. She simply changed her hairstyle. I'm convinced this is all about privilege and showing her hair as "Better." I'm side-eying both her and CurlyNikki for this foolishness.



Wooo, I was wondering when this story would find its way onto this forum, since it made the rounds of the various Black blogs already. In answer to your question, according to her Twitter feed, she applied to be featured on Curly Nikki, and apparently Nikki accepted, probably more for the click-bait, since that particular post has at least three times as many responses as her usual posts, and she probably got a decent uptick in traffic to her site, since I saw this on Clutch, The Root, and a few other blogs. Me personally, I wouldn't mind so much if the girl had type 4 hair (I have seen white people who had it, although it's RARE) that she had NO idea how to deal with, but since the girl had standard 3a-b ringlets, I really didn't appreciate her input, nor especially her self-centered Twitter response to the backlash she received once her feature was posted. She didn't even want to hear what the Black women were trying to explain to her about just what it means for *us* to embrace our natural hair, she seemed pissed that we were trying to distract her from her brand-new engagement.  Damn shame.


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## lookingforkeona (Jul 1, 2014)

JaneBond007 said:


> I just choked!!!   But he's a brain and I like him.    The other guy was kinda giving me the creeps after awhile  with his Sanpaku eyes and the butter which I playfully coined "the original curl juice" was kinda making me heave.  It was looking all rancid in a bigger pic.  I'll try and find someone else



I like it!


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## PJaye (Jul 1, 2014)

I have absolutely no interested in seeing another sphere of Black life be "Columbused".


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## Lia3257 (Jul 1, 2014)

Her response: http://curlsandblossoms.blogspot.com/2014/06/my-curlynikki-feature-natural-hair-and.html?m=1


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## ellebelle88 (Jul 1, 2014)

*THE WHITE WOMEN ARE A-COMING!! THE WHITE WOMEN ARE A-COMING!!! *


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## ellebelle88 (Jul 1, 2014)

Future Possible Threads:


"How can I get my braids to last longer than 2 days?"
"Do Black men prefer macaroni and cheese or casseroles?
"Post your favorite recipe that all Black men LOVE!"
OMG! Why is this Black women's hair board so concerned with race?! Racism is over!"


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## Crackers Phinn (Jul 1, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.



This is the story I had heard about LHCF when I first joined.   And you know what? Ain't nothing wrong with black flight.   White people do it all the time when they feel like it's too many of us in their space.   The black folks on Curly Nikki should have thrown the deuces as soon as it was made known that the new owners of the site were white because it was obvious what direction it was going in.  I'm surprised it took this long to have a white curly of the month.


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## Foxglove (Jul 1, 2014)

Lia3257 said:


> Her response: http://curlsandblossoms.blogspot.com/2014/06/my-curlynikki-feature-natural-hair-and.html?m=1



*facepalm*


----------



## MileHighDiva (Jul 1, 2014)

For clarification, the AA ladies were not welcome on LHC?  This board was created in 2002.  According to their copyright information, LHC was created in 2003 (2003 - 2013 The Beauty Bottle, LLC and Contributors).  That's a year after this board.

Please advise!  TIA


----------



## DoDo (Jul 1, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. *We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us.* Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.



Oh , see I didn't know that. Although I did know that Dee left Naturallycurly to found Nappturality. That gives me a whole new view on things.


----------



## Froreal3 (Jul 1, 2014)

kimpaur said:


> Some of you kill me. You can't sit here and pretend that white women and black women both experience the same struggles. There's a certain politics surrounding black hair for God's sake. White women could never know that struggle, especially considering that they and their hair are the standard of beauty in this country. I went natural back in HS and my own Mother refused to let me at first, I had to pour my heart out to her to even consider letting me do it. My whole immediate family thought I was crazy at the time, there was no support. The first time I wore it out at school I was teased mercilessly and got sooo many stares. How many white women can truly understand that?
> I say all this to say, that the Natural Hair Movement was created for things like these. It created a space and a presence that did not exist at the time but was so very necessary. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep that a "black" thing or whatever you may want to call it, because the reality is that that is what it is, a black thing.



I totally agree. It also has less to do with hair texture than experiences related to black hair care. Mixed race black women with type 3 or 4 hair or even "full black" women with 3b hair have experienced the same degradation regarding their hair as any other black person. This can't be compared with a white woman who just didn't want to wear her hair out of a bun due to poofiness.

Also, of course there will be outliers who have 3c hair. They can definitely relate to "going natural." However there are so many facets of the experience that are intimately tied with the racial aspects of a person. And cowashing is not nearly the only thing involved in our hair care. Besides the techniques involved do not matter as much as the total experience of acceptance,  which again has aspects related to the racial experience.

Sent from my Snow White Frost Galaxy S4 using LHCF


----------



## Froreal3 (Jul 1, 2014)

MileHighDiva said:


> For clarification, the AA ladies were not welcome on LHC?  This board was created in 2002.  According to their copyright information, LHC was created in 2003 (2003 - 2013 The Beauty Bottle, LLC and Contributors).  That's a year after this board.
> 
> Please advise!  TIA



I believe there was a huge crash of their board and it had to be created over again.  Not sure of the dates. 

...though it doesn't matter to me when or why the boards were created. The natural hair movement is fulfilling a need that black women have. We should have safe spaces to discuss issues pertaining to that.

Sent from my Snow White Frost Galaxy S4 using LHCF


----------



## Beany (Jul 1, 2014)

@ FeministaJones (via le twitter) posted something the other day that I thought hit the nail directly on the head:

"The occupation of Black spaces by White people has been a standard bc of the fear of what happens when we congregate without them."


----------



## Fauxshim (Jul 1, 2014)

They can have their own natural hair movement and community. They don't need us. Separate but equal.


----------



## summertimewine (Jul 1, 2014)

I'm sorry but white people have BEEN having a hair movement since they were born. 90% of main characters on TV represent white hair, y'all got hundreds of white actors winning every award from the oscars to BET and yet we (black people) only have 12 academy award winners and 13 oscar winners. White people occupy the most CEO positions and are the most viewed in a good light and have representation literally EVERYWHERE. You can miss me when you want to include white people the small spaces where black people can talk safely and not have to deal with racism amongst other things.  

White people were the ones telling us our hair was nappy, out of control, and ghetto!

I don't understand those that feel sympathy, y'all know white people will steal black culture but then turn around and use their white privilege the MOMENT it helps them out, even if that means stepping on our backs.


----------



## GoldenRule (Jul 1, 2014)

MileHighDiva said:


> For clarification, the AA ladies were not welcome on LHC?  This board was created in 2002.  According to their copyright information, LHC was created in 2003 (2003 - 2013 The Beauty Bottle, LLC and Contributors).  That's a year after this board.
> 
> Please advise!  TIA



No, we were in existence prior to 2002. We had a major upgrade in 2002 which led to the current board we use today but LHCF had a board prior to that for at least a year which we quickly outgrew. There surely must be an original member or two still around. 

And no, they didn't exactly say GET OUT but some comments were made that left one feeling some kinda way. I don't really remember it as Long Hair Community. I thought it was Long Hair FORUM but I may be wrong on that, it's been a long time. The name was very VERY similar to ours LHC/LHCF...so yeah, that may have been them.



ETA: I found an olddddd thread. It's from 10/19/02 which was one of our 1st days in our current form but by reading it, you can see we were somewhere else (as LHCF) first. Also it looks like we came over originally from "long hair lovers" LHL not LHC. They created a "MultiCultural" sub-forum for us to keep us out of the fray and the "trolling" there is also referenced.

Here's a link. Hope it works:

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=36


----------



## BostonMaria (Jul 1, 2014)

Lia3257 said:


> Her response: http://curlsandblossoms.blogspot.com/2014/06/my-curlynikki-feature-natural-hair-and.html?m=1



Boo hoo!

there usually is some negativity whenever Curly Nikki adds an article about a WW on her blog.  This isn't the first time this has happened.  CN doesn't own the blog anymore, she sold it to NaturallyCurly.com (owned by 2 WW) and that's probably why they wanted to highlight one of their own.  The day that they make that blog into some kind of one size fits all kumbaya for WW... that blog will probably lose most of its members.

Anyway I started out over at NaturallyCurly.com in 2006 and the ladies there helped me transition.  I was always in the 3C and 4A&B forums and never ventured into the other forums where the "other" ladies were at. From what I was told the off topic forums would sometimes get racist remarks. In 2008 I eventually just decided to stay here because it feels more safe (altho you guys are cray cray too LOL).


----------



## Foxglove (Jul 1, 2014)

What kills me with that response is she posted legitimate concerns people have, ignored them and came to the same conclusion, like "oh that's cute but ANYWAY... "


----------



## iVR (Jul 1, 2014)

ellebelle88 said:


> THE WHITE WOMEN ARE A-COMING!! THE WHITE WOMEN ARE A-COMING!!!



You so wrong! LMBO!!!!


----------



## IDareT'sHair (Jul 1, 2014)

This site says: Ultimate Resource Hair & Beauty Resource Guide FOR WOMEN OF COLOR 

Nuff Said


----------



## Lia3257 (Jul 1, 2014)

She shouldn't have even replied. smh...


----------



## IDareT'sHair (Jul 1, 2014)

OT: 

I happen to see an Article regarding the BET Awards and the press was dissing Nikki Minaj. (I probably spelled her name wrong).

But I understood perfectly why Ms. Minaj did what she did and said what she said at the BET Awards about that White Girl (wannabe rapper)

Because they try to come in on everything we have and try to take over.


----------



## Britt (Jul 1, 2014)

Divine. said:


> I kind of agree. Why can't we just have something of our own? The second we develop something great in our community, it doesn't take very long before it's no longer ours. Our own culture isn't even respected. Other people always get credit for the things we create. And we willing let it happen.
> 
> Non-blacks have no problem excluding us, so why shouldn't we be exclusive as well? The whole natural movement in the grand scheme of things isn't such a big deal. But it just goes to show how inclusive we are as a race. We go out our way to accept everyone when no one bats an eye to accept us.


 
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS !


----------



## tinycoils (Jul 1, 2014)

You can keep you individuality and not be exclusive.  I don't believe we need to be inclusive to our detriment, just find a nice balance. I have been on the LHC forum recently and surprisingly they discuss a lot of the same things we discuss here.  

Two wrongs don't make a right and we should not let someone else's bad behavior influence how we act.


----------



## Divine. (Jul 1, 2014)

Lia3257 said:


> Her response: http://curlsandblossoms.blogspot.com/2014/06/my-curlynikki-feature-natural-hair-and.html?m=1



I'll give credit, where credit is due: The blog was written eloquently.

_However_, I still agree with the article in the OP. It's something about when a white woman says she has struggled that really bothers me. Especially when in the same breath said white woman admits she has privilege in this society  I'm all about everyone getting along, but it's not about creating division. It's about women of color banding together to build a movement to impact and encourage one another.

The natural hair movement has taken such a sharp turn over the recent years. We can't even call it a "black movement" anymore. Women of with spiral curls have become the standard of natural hair, leaving women with tighter textures fighting to fit back into something that was essentially inspired by them. IMO, it's no wonder this woman felt inclined to include herself. We're embracing every other head of curls so why not hers? 

Curl Nikki's blog is prime example of us giving our ownership away. We don't even take pride in the platforms we build up anymore. I hate to sound so pro-black, but I'm all about the advancement of my people. I will never be able to relate to a white woman, nor will she ever be able to relate to me no matter how textured her hair looks. I relate to women who look like me and have undergone the same struggles.


----------



## Divine. (Jul 1, 2014)

tinycoils said:


> You can keep you individuality and not be exclusive.  I don't believe we need to be inclusive to our detriment, just find a nice balance. I have been on the LHC forum recently and surprisingly they discuss a lot of the same things we discuss here.
> 
> Two wrongs don't make a right and we should not let someone else's bad behavior influence how we act.



IMO, we have been very inclusive. Latinos and those of mixed race have been openly accepted within the natural hair community.


----------



## nubiangoddess3 (Jul 1, 2014)

Divine. said:


> I'll give credit, where credit is due: The blog was written eloquently.
> 
> _However_, I still agree with the article in the OP. It's something about when a white woman says she has struggled that really bothers me. Especially when in the same breath said white woman admits she has privilege in this society  I'm all about everyone getting along, but it's not about creating division. It's about women of color banding together to build a movement to impact and encourage one another.
> 
> ...



I totally agree, I saw curly head white women being included  in the natural hair movement a while back when the only hair type getting big endorsement were 3's. *Why are ppl mad now and up in arms*, when tighter coiled naturals were complaining ppl told them to stop whining. Now the 3's will be replace by curly head white, Latinos and mixed race women. 



Divine. said:


> IMO, we have been very inclusive. *Latinos and those of mixed race have been openly accepted within the natural hair community*.


----------



## Lucie (Jul 1, 2014)

The world is THEIR community. I don't dislike white people (or bi-racial) but we need our own thing. Where we can feel safe. Chat freely. I don't understand why they always need to be a part of what we're doing. When the roles were reversed they were no so tolerant on their message boards. Now, we have to include them? What else do they want? Bye Felicity.


----------



## LivingInPeace (Jul 1, 2014)

Lucie You said Felicity!


----------



## Lucie (Jul 1, 2014)

LivingInPeace said:


> @Lucie You said Felicity!



LivingInPeace, lucky I don't know how to make memes. I'd be using BYE FELICITY all over the place.


----------



## Divine. (Jul 1, 2014)

Lucie said:


> LivingInPeace, lucky I don't know how to make memes. I'd be using BYE FELICITY all over the place.



Lucie_ Psst_...Here you go http://memegenerator.net/


----------



## cami88 (Jul 1, 2014)

Nope. No. Negative, and hayle no. Sarah's response highlights precisely why she is not welcome to the club. 

I would tell her to visit one of the myriad of blogs and websites dedicated to white women's hair. 

I have never frequented CurlyNikki but apparently the whole site is on some bull$hit.

Sent from my galaxy s4 using LHCF


----------



## Sosa (Jul 1, 2014)

Divine. said:


> I'll give credit, where credit is due: The blog was written eloquently.
> 
> However, I still agree with the article in the OP. It's something about when a white woman says she has struggled that really bothers me. Especially when in the same breath said white woman admits she has privilege in this society  I'm all about everyone getting along, but it's not about creating division. It's about women of color banding together to build a movement to impact and encourage one another.
> 
> ...



Don't apologize for sounding pro-black. Until the playing field is leveled in all areas, I will always be for the advancement of our people. 
Integration is not always the best way to go. But I won't go off topic.

Let us have this natural movement.  It's still growing, products and tools are catering to us and we have been lagging behind. "For us by us" will lead us to 'buy us' more.  The white folks may come in with more voice and resources, out producing us at lower costs, at the same time making the products more accommodating to "all" races :eyeroll: . Soon they will realize who has more buying power, gradually change products accordingly...and back to square one we go. Yeah


----------



## NaturallyATLPCH (Jul 1, 2014)

For those of you not comfortable with your natural hair, just put it in a braid or bun. 

I thought the whole thing was hilarious and insulting at the same time. I'm sorry,  I enjoy having a place exclusively for me to share my journey as a woman of color. Your struggle isn't like mine at ALL.


----------



## Lucie (Jul 1, 2014)

Divine. thanks boo! LOL!


----------



## ellebelle88 (Jul 1, 2014)

Divine. said:


> I'll give credit, where credit is due: The blog was written eloquently.



Please do tell what is "eloquent about her blog post. Please do tell.

If anything it isn't HER response that is eloquent, its the people who she is responding to that wrote eloquent, thoughtful critiques about why she shouldn't have submitted to be a part of CurlyNikki in the first place.


----------



## Divine. (Jul 1, 2014)

ellebelle88 said:


> Please do tell what is "eloquent about her blog post. Please do tell.
> 
> If anything it isn't HER response that is eloquent, its the people who she is responding to that wrote eloquent, thoughtful critiques about why she shouldn't have submitted to be a part of CurlyNikki in the first place.



I am a content writer and editor, so I'm looking at this blog from that perspective. I think she expressed her ideas well, and it was written nicely (grammar wise). That's about it lol


----------



## Froreal3 (Jul 1, 2014)

^^The content of what she said made her seem very obtuse. So she went and saw a blog interview post with "questions that didn't pertain," then she went on the blog and saw it was mostly African Americans, but nothing in the language of the about me section said it was for African Americans.  Then you pull a quote from one person saying the natural hair movement has _nothing_ to do with color. Nice try.


----------



## ellebelle88 (Jul 1, 2014)

Divine. said:


> I am a content writer and editor, so I'm looking at this blog from that perspective. I think she expressed her ideas well, and it was written nicely (grammar wise). That's about it lol



Her basic framework was this: 

_Black women are mad at me. Here's why: (posts 1-10 of people bashing her). It's horrible and awful what Black women and girls go through every day of their lives since birth...BUT I'm white and I went through something horrible once with my hair so I deserve to be on a Black hair site because natural is in the dictionary. Anything that's for Black women is surely for me too. When did they get to have something of their own in this country?_

Her complete dismissal and then turning to playing the victim is not eloquent. It's insulting that she even attempted to verbalize her plight as the same as Black girls and women, EVEN after it was clearly spelled out for her. She could just put her hair in one long braid or a bun and magically be accepted again. Not so for Black women.


----------



## cami88 (Jul 1, 2014)

Lawd, did yall read the original article on CurlyNikki? The interviewer asked her if she transitioned or big chopped (does she even know what either of those refer to?) And she replied that she's been 'natural' her whole life.  

She's not even one of those white girls who chemically straightened their hair. All she did was start wearing it down instead of in a librarian's bun. I just cannot roll my eyes hard enough.

I kind of want to sign up for Twitter for the sole purpose of clowning her. 

Sent from my galaxy s4 using LHCF


----------



## ellebelle88 (Jul 1, 2014)

Froreal3 said:


> ^^The content of what she said made her seem very obtuse. *So she went and saw a blog interview post with "questions that didn't pertain," then she went on the blog and saw it was mostly African Americans, but nothing in the language of the about me section said it was for African Americans.*  Then you pull a quote from one person saying the natural hair movement has _nothing_ to do with color. Nice try.



This! Her actions are the very definition of entitlement and white privilege. The fact that she realized that the questions didn't apply to her but still somehow rationalized that she should be a part of it, because how dare there be a space where she doesn't belong?


----------



## Divine. (Jul 1, 2014)

ellebelle88 said:


> Her basic framework was this:
> 
> _Black women are mad at me. Here's why: (posts 1-10 of people bashing her). It's horrible and awful what Black women and girls go through every day of their lives since birth...BUT I'm white and I went through something horrible once with my hair so I deserve to be on a Black hair site because natural is in the dictionary. Anything that's for Black women is surely for me too. When did they get to have something of their own in this country?_
> 
> *Her complete dismissal and then turning to playing the victim is not eloquent. *It's insulting that she even attempted to verbalize her plight as the same as Black girls and women, EVEN after it was clearly spelled out for her. She could just put her hair in one long braid or a bun and magically be accepted again. Not so for Black women.



I never said it was. _Technically_ (in terms of writing only), it was written well. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know how else to say she wrote something well without implying that her argument was great. As a writer, I appreciate that she knows how to structure a sentence.


----------



## Starbucks (Jul 1, 2014)

I am fairly new to this, but I really think the points made in the comments were valid.



> *-There has been no systematic oppression against white women with curly hair. "Embracing your natural" has nothing to do with the way black women embrace their natural hair. The delusion here is real and frightening. When people start telling you that you can't get a job or tell you to use poisonous chemicals to straighten your hair then we can talk, until then respect the black woman's struggle an stop making everything about you.*
> 
> -She does not know what it feels like to be a woman of African descent living in a hostile world that tells you everyday that your hair is unacceptable, unprofessional and "bad". She doesn't know what is like to be called derogatory names by people just because you wear you hair kinky. She doesn't know what it's like for people to come up to you and tell you that you need to change your hair because you won't get a man. Her "natural" hair is still accepted and mainstream. No one is going to tell her to get a relaxer. No one is going to tell her that her hair is unprofessional for her job.
> 
> ...


Those points are valid and I don't understand why they would be so hard to grasp.


----------



## SimJam (Jul 1, 2014)

They can keep theirs ... leave ours alone.

True everyone's "struggle" is real TO THEM but the "struggle" certainly is not equal


----------



## Subscribe (Jul 1, 2014)

Why is it that black folks always have to play nice? Why must we be the bigger person?


----------



## Subscribe (Jul 1, 2014)

ellebelle88 said:


> Her basic framework was this:
> 
> _Black women are mad at me. Here's why: (posts 1-10 of people bashing her). It's horrible and awful what Black women and girls go through every day of their lives since birth...BUT I'm white and I went through something horrible once with my hair so I deserve to be on a Black hair site because natural is in the dictionary. Anything that's for Black women is surely for me too.* When did they get to have something of their own in this country?[/I*]
> 
> Her complete dismissal and then turning to playing the victim is not eloquent. It's insulting that she even attempted to verbalize her plight as the same as Black girls and women, EVEN after it was clearly spelled out for her. She could just put her hair in one long braid or a bun and magically be accepted again. Not so for Black women._


_

What does this mean?_


----------



## greenandchic (Jul 1, 2014)

I haven't read all of the responses yet but I agree that their "curly hair struggles" has nothing to do with us. Though I am happy for Curly Nikki's success in the blogosphere, something about her approach rubs me the wrong way and has for quite a while.

White women with black/biracial children (birth or adoption) looking for information on black hair is one thing. Even the one-off white person with 4a hair is all good but the 3a white women has plenty of other places to go.  I know there is NaturallyCurly but even NC is not for everyone. 

I quizzed my (white) husband about this and even he wondered the same thing: why was she featured on a *black *hair site? Curly Nikki's site, I thought, was a spin-off of NC for women with tightly curly/kinky hair.


----------



## MileHighDiva (Jul 1, 2014)

Natural Hair Drama & Division: Are Black Women Th…: http://youtu.be/7QlYCcKcffc

My Natural Sistahs response to CN Blog/Twitter situation.  Good video!

Sent from my Speak & Spell using LHCF


----------



## Channy31 (Jul 1, 2014)

I have a few thoughts, if a black person with 3a hair came here we would be accepting(?), if a white person with 3a hair came here we would not(?) Which seems odd to me.


In the same breath, the white women wouldn't understand a lot of the issues we, as black/mixed race people face when it comes to natural hair imo. I don't explain the natural hair world to my white friends because they won't be able to relate in the same way, whether or not they have as curly/ curlier hair than me. 


Idk its a hard one.


----------



## tinycoils (Jul 1, 2014)

Subscribe said:


> Why is it that black folks always have to play nice? Why must we be the bigger person?



Don't know about you but in the end I want to hear "well done", so I will try to be the bigger person.


----------



## JaneBond007 (Jul 1, 2014)

To who ever posted that blog response, thanks.  Here's the problem for me and these are not in my words:


 "No one cares about you being white. People feel that you co-opted something that is inherently black. Black women have been told for centuries that their hair is ugly/nappy/unkempt/unacceptable/unprofessional in it's natural state. They need to fix it to be accepted. They need to damage it for it to be beautiful. For you to come over all chipper and say, 'I just took my hair out of a bun and stopped braiding it. YAY! Natural now!' is a slap in the face to every black woman who has been told (and is still being told) that her hair is ugly/nappy/unkempt/unacceptable/unprofessional simply because it isn't wavy or straight."

And now here is the deflection of the issue and the attempt to sway the opinion because one is excluded:


I'm not denying my privilege. And I'm not trying to upstage other women's struggles, or erase the connotations of the natural hair movement with African American women.It 's horrible that little girls are suspended from school because of their hairstyle; it's awful to think that women are told their natural hair is not professional. The military shouldn't have a place in telling women that styles like braids and locs are not permitted. These things all happened, but it doesn't mean other women of other races don't struggle because of their hair as well.  But I've been calling my hair natural for years. 

Lots of girls of different races who have looser textures struggle with accepting their natural hair as well. My story is not a story of a large struggle, and I tried not to paint it that way, but I have subscribers who come to me after they've relaxed or straightened their hair for years! It's just as life-changing and uplifting when those girls learn to embrace their natural hair... To me natural hair is about hair, not race or texture. I understand that natural hair is often associated with black women, but other women have a claim to the term as well. The term is not specific to any race.


Well, if she were not trying to deny HERSELF privilege, that would have been the end of the rant, right?  Going to a corner and shutting up.  I have no problem with this whole thing being multi-ethnic.  However, there is a point well-made here about how she is behaving.  Without this blog post, I would never have known.  And I just don't keep up with all this politics in hair online.  But that is suspect and "privilegy" because she doesn't want to concede.


----------



## bhndbrwneyes (Jul 1, 2014)

Froreal3 said:


> I don't quite understand the purpose and reasoning.
> 
> Next, we should have a WET tv station I guess.  or HWCUs (oh but we already have those...they're called regla tv and regla schools).


 

^^this

I thought I was the only one. I hate going on instagram and searching #naturalhair and a white girl who just got out the shower with somewhat wavy hair is taking a selfie. Of course her hair is natural. Even if she were to have straightened her hair it would be considered natural. But the "natural hair community" has a different meaning to me. To me it means products, styles, tools, and advice for ethnic hair types, a population that is (historically) known to chemically adjust the structure of the hair shaft via relaxers. It is a community of pride and support. Now, I know some white women get perms to make their hair curly...If they spent 20 years on the creamy crack and are just now breaking free and taking pride in their "natural" hair then good for them. But don't taint those hashtags!


----------



## Subscribe (Jul 1, 2014)

tinycoils said:


> Don't know about you but in the end I want to hear "well done", so I will try to be the bigger person.



Who do you want to hear that from? Cause a lot of black people between 1650 - to 1850 were patted on the back and told "well done". 

You think we as a people have gotten this far because we were the bigger person?


----------



## Cendra (Jul 1, 2014)

PJaye said:


> I have absolutely no interested in seeing another sphere of Black life be "Columbused".


 
I know it isn't funny, but "Columbused"? LMAO


----------



## bhndbrwneyes (Jul 1, 2014)

P.S. sounds like a troll maybe.


----------



## Saludable84 (Jul 1, 2014)

It strikes me as odd. 

I used to hear about curly Nikki being a reference for so many bloggers. I went on her blog one day and I became disinterested that quick. Why? I felt like she was for curly hair and really kinky hair which is what I have. That's how I found other bloggers. That also when I started noticing that even with the natural hair movement, there was still segregation between our own people. 

I read through some of the thread yesterday and today and my biggest issue is not with a WW but instead the fact that we never have anything of our own. Granted, black people aren't only natural, but when we rise ourselves up, and the natural hair movement has been a big step in our community even if everyone doesn't contribute by not being natural, it's just sad that somehow the WP take it from us. It's hard for our community to come up and for once we are being seen for who we are and after the struggle we had to make for the hair care business to turn around and support OUR decision, now this happens. At the end of the day, it's just not fair to us that we can have nothing.


----------



## GoldenRule (Jul 1, 2014)

When she can predict what horrifying event occurs when walking down the boardwalk on a date with your fly press and curl blowing in the wind, 10 blocks away from your automobile when you feel it -- a single fat juicy raindrop. What happens next?

If she answers , maybe we should welcome her.

If she thinks you just smooth back it into a magic bun, she should K.I.M.


----------



## GoldenRule (Jul 1, 2014)

If she know what the phrase, "Hold your ear, baby..." refers to maybe we should welcome her. 

If the three letters R I O make her hair curl back into the scalp to protect itself, she'll be a great fit I think!

Lastly, the clack clack clack of the curling iron hot off the stove. If she can correctly identify that sound in conjunction with the accompanying sizzle of grease DING DING DING! We have a new member of the natural hair community!!


----------



## ctosha (Jul 1, 2014)

IDareT'sHair said:


> OT:  I happen to see an Article regarding the BET Awards and the press was dissing Nikki Minaj. (I probably spelled her name wrong).  But I understood perfectly why Ms. Minaj did what she did and said what she said at the BET Awards about that White Girl (wannabe rapper)  Because they try to come in on everything we have and try to take over.


  All. Of . THIS

How do I feel about white women being apart of the natural hair movement ? Easy they don't need to be apart of it period. Why is it they always Wanna fas up in our sh*t? Let us be and let us have something for ourselves.


----------



## Stormy (Jul 1, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. *We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women.* Then they *suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either *so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.



 I had noooo idea! And here I was thinking well I can see both sides. 
BUT NOW... having read this AND her response I say NOOOOO!
And why now anyway? Especially when she saw the first question didn't even pertain to her. Oh, and as she said "It's just hair."  Probably wanted to jump on board because the natural hair movement is so popular and now getting so much media attention.


----------



## Healthb4Length (Jul 1, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.




Yes GoldenRule, I remember quite well. I was a member lurking over on the "other site" prior to LHCF but the info seamed really inadequate. I was also a member of Blackwomenshairandbody (or something like that) on Yahoo.  This was around 1999-00, when LHCF started it was so refreshing to say the least. They had no info over on "other site" and I got the sense that I was NOT welcomed.


----------



## GoldenRule (Jul 1, 2014)

Healthb4Length said:


> Yes GoldenRule, I remember quite well. I was a member lurking over on the "other site" prior to LHCF but the info seamed really inadequate. I was also a member of Blackwomenshairandbody (or something like that) on Yahoo.  This was around 1999-00, when LHCF started it was so refreshing to say the least. They had no info over on "other site" and I got the sense that I was NOT welcomed.



Yeah...all they talked about was MONOI oil, what shampoos smelled the best and the cutest scrunchies. I mean, a lot of them already had really long hair. There isn't much you can do to it once it's that long.


----------



## robot. (Jul 1, 2014)

MileHighDiva said:


> Natural Hair Drama & Division: Are Black Women Th…: http://youtu.be/7QlYCcKcffc
> 
> My Natural Sistahs response to CN Blog/Twitter situation.  Good video!
> 
> Sent from my Speak & Spell using LHCF



I have no clue how what she's saying relates to this WW in our space.


----------



## MileHighDiva (Jul 1, 2014)

robot. said:


> I have no clue how what she's saying relates to this WW in our space.



Robot 

She brings up the CN post twice within the first 2-3 minutes of the video...

Sent from my Speak & Spell using LHCF


----------



## Kilacurlz (Jul 1, 2014)

Crackers Phinn said:


> My answer depends on whether or not Lorraine Massey was the original person to bring conditioner washing into the natural mainstream.



This really is neither here nor there but I will say that in the early nineties I was reading an article written by a black personal trainer. She started talking about working out, sweating, black women washing their hair everyday with shampoo--not good, etc. She said just wash your hair with conditioner after working out because shampoo was too harsh on the hair. She didn't mention sulfates or cones but from that time I started washing with conditioner.  

Fast forward 15 years and it took me FOREVER to figure out what this cowashing business was about!  Anyway, I don't know when LM came out with her CG advice but I suspect cowashing didn't originate with her. As far as mainstream, yes, I guess it could have been her.


----------



## SlimPickinz (Jul 1, 2014)

southerncitygirl my hair is giving me trouble. I'm gonna start using grease on my hair and see if it will do better while curly & bunned.

& I think I have to work on Friday. My employer hasn't closed the site yet :/ but I may head to the beach with my friends & some BBQ's to attend. Nothing major. What about you? Leaving the city???


----------



## Daernyris (Jul 1, 2014)

Subscribe said:


> Why is it that black folks always have to play nice? Why must we be the bigger person?


 
^^^ @ this, cause I can assure you ain't nobody playing nice with us. I DON'T CARE HOW HARD THEY GRINNING!!! When we learn and understand this, we will be in a much better place.


----------



## Healthb4Length (Jul 1, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> Yeah...all they talked about was MONOI oil, what shampoos smelled the best and the cutest scrunchies. I mean, a lot of them already had really long hair. There isn't much you can do to it once it's that long.




Uh oh, that and Louise Marie Longhairs and her horn combs. Not gonna lie I did buy  they're sitting in my hair toys junkyard now.


----------



## curlytwirly06 (Jul 2, 2014)

So that woman who started all this controversy is straight up disrespecting black women now. Someone tweeted that they did not know that natural hair was such a sensitive topic and she replied with how she does not understand "those people" and they are "insecure haters" with nothing better to do. She is trolling now on her facebook page and saying how racist and angry black women are. I actually took some time to read through the mess. I cant believe this smh. She has nerve.


----------



## LaViolette (Jul 2, 2014)

She knew damn well what she was doing! She started this for kicks and giggles, using her privilege to cause this divisiveness for some petty attention. Smh..


----------



## Aviah (Jul 2, 2014)

I didn't read the article, but what is racially exclusive about wearing your hair as is? Most people regardless of race alter their hair in some fashion.


----------



## Honey Bee (Jul 2, 2014)

Subscribe said:


> Who do you want to hear that from? Cause a lot of black people between 1650 - to 1850 were patted on the back and told "well done".
> 
> You think we as a people have gotten this far because we were the bigger person?


Subscribe, It's a reference to a spiritual, iirc. God would be the one saying it, not slave masters and such.


----------



## Honey Bee (Jul 2, 2014)

LaViolette said:


> She knew damn well what she was doing!


They always do.


----------



## MystiqueBabe (Jul 2, 2014)

I don't really see a problem with it as long as they respect us. Aren't there even some latina woman in the natural community? Some white woman have kids with hair similar to ours and I don't see anything wrong with them seeking advice or whatever, again as long as they are respectful.

I have just always found it funny that every time there is an event or cause for black or non-white races, white people ALWAYS seem to find their way in there or give there 2 cent. It almost never fails.


----------



## Honey Bee (Jul 2, 2014)

MystiqueBabe said:


> I don't really see a problem with it as long as they respect us.


Does this woman seem respectful to you?


----------



## sunnydaze (Jul 2, 2014)

LaViolette said:


> She knew damn well what she was doing! She started this for kicks and giggles, using her privilege to cause this divisiveness for some petty attention. Smh..


 

Wow. This answers all questions. We trying to share, fellowship about hair..they coming in to start up **t. Ain't nobody got time for that...yea stay out.


----------



## loved (Jul 2, 2014)

I unsubscribed from CN a few weeks ago and this confirms that it was the right decision. CN is becoming more about the celebrity of being a hair blogger and less about providing good information for the spectrum of black women's hair.  WhiteLily was definitely in the game for clicks and giggles and CN got poned by snowflake.


----------



## NaturallyATLPCH (Jul 2, 2014)

So turns out this chic did it to stir up some controversy?


----------



## Ogoma (Jul 2, 2014)

sunnydaze said:


> Wow. This answers all questions. We trying to share, fellowship about hair..they coming in to start up **t. Ain't nobody got time for that...yea stay out.



I am just amazed at how many black supporters she has. I have no emotional investment in CN so I have been reading the story nonchalantly; I expect her to do something like this. If BGLH did this, I would be more emotionally invested. But, this chick's response has been getting on my last nerve. I noticed a YouTuber I follow giving her words of support and I unsubscribed from her.


----------



## Daernyris (Jul 2, 2014)

Ogoma said:


> *I am just amazed at how many black supporters she has.* I have no emotional investment in CN so I have been reading the story nonchalantly; I expect her to do something like this. If BGLH did this, I would be more emotionally invested. But, this chick's response has been getting on my last nerve. I noticed a YouTuber I follow giving her words of support and I unsubscribed from her.


 
^^^@ the bolded
That's that coon mentality, quick to defend the massa/misses and throw ya own under a bus for trinkets. We got too many wanting to look like "the good blacks" and not one of those other kinda blacks.

ETA: Black folks will give their eyeteeth for some acceptance from other groups that don't care anything for their advancement


----------



## SlimPickinz (Jul 2, 2014)

Honey Bee said:


> Does this woman seem respectful to you?


Girl. If she didn't post a pic of her "hair" I would say she was one of them white ppl lurking and causing trouble on this board.


----------



## Evolving78 (Jul 2, 2014)

Healthb4Length said:


> Yes GoldenRule, I remember quite well. I was a member lurking over on the "other site" prior to LHCF but the info seamed really inadequate. I was also a member of Blackwomenshairandbody (or something like that) on Yahoo.  This was around 1999-00, when LHCF started it was so refreshing to say the least. They had no info over on "other site" and I got the sense that I was NOT welcomed.



I was a part of that yahoo group too. I haven't read the thread, but I hope she got her behind handed to her.


----------



## Healthb4Length (Jul 2, 2014)

Looks like she's trolling.


----------



## SweetlyCurly (Jul 2, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.



I was not aware of this but doesn't surprise me. 

Here is my thing...by causing an e-uprise about this article aren't we doing the same thing they do to us? If this little girl wants to identify as a curly then let her. If she wants to tell us about her struggle of her wavy-semi curly hair then allow her to do so. Some just get WAY too involved about other people's lives and opinions. 

I get the frustration about having to be the one to "raise above" sometimes that's the best way to deal with ignorance.


----------



## blessedandfavoured (Jul 2, 2014)

Hello Sistas, this is my first post in the hair section!  

White women joining the natural hair movement? I say NEVER.  I don't care how curly their hair is - NEVER!  Their struggle is not our struggle.  If they do things to their hair, it's to fit in.  They are not verbally abused because of their hair, as far as I know. They don't have their own family members calling them names or asking them when they'll 'fix' their hair because they decided not to flat-iron or wear it in a bun that day. They haven't been so conditioned to scorn their own God-given hair, that from as young as 5, they've had it straightened so it can look 'good'.  

Do they know what chemical burns are about? They don't have to struggle and search high and low for women in mainstream magazines or films that look like them or have similar hair.  15 years ago, the only 'black' woman I knew of with natural hair was Mel B. from the Spice Girls.  Even then, her hair looked nothing like mine.

In short, white women don't have to live with the legacy that Slavery and Colonialism have left to Negroes. To me, the natural hair movement isn't just about hair, it's also about taking steps to undo the damage that slavery and colonialism have done to black women (and where hair is concerned, men to a lesser degree) ALL over the world.  We've been taught for generations to hate *all* our physical attributes, from our skin colour, to our hair texture, to our bodies, even our eye colour!  

Then one day, when we finally learn to start loving ourselves as God made us, white folks - the descendants of those who have dished out the most wickedness to us as a group, some of whom are still sitting idly by while we're being marginalised, or worse, are actively oppressing us - want to come in and take what we have worked so hard for.  No. Thank. You.

Before I found this forum, I was natural but had no clue how to take care of my hair.  It wasn't Vogue, or Cosmopolitan, or even Ebony or Essence or Hype Hair that gave me tips.  All the black magazines I saw only catered to relaxed hair or weaves - even braids weren't that popular.  It was this forum and the natural hair movement taking place on line that pointed me in the right direction.  Now white folks want a piece of the pie?  Like, don't you have enough already?  The whole world is YOURS!!!  Please, take a stadium's worth of seats!

I think history has shown us that when whites come into a 'black zone', it isn't long before they push the blacks out or subjugate them.  I hate to sound so militant, but the truth is, blacks and whites are not on the same level playing field yet.  If we were, this little interview wouldn't be an issue.  But check the evidence - the only time you see any tv show with a majority black cast is when it's about crime or prison, but white people are always represented in a positive light.  Now black women want to gather in a positive way, and celebrate the uniqueness of our hair, and comfort and encourage one another in this hair struggle, and white folks want to muscle in on our turf.  How is that fair?

Slight aside: Some years ago, I saw a L'oreal advert for foundation.  Their idea of 'dark' skin?  Noemie Lenoir.  Really???  
This is why I'm doubly happy to see Mahogany Curls get that money.  She looks like a great number of black women the world over.  It's a step in the right direction.  God willing, in the near future we'll have women with type 4 hair fronting campaigns.  Hey, we've already got Lupita doing Lancome, so it's coming.

Sorry this post is so long. I have a problem keeping it brief, lol.


----------



## Ogoma (Jul 2, 2014)

She cannot force her way in unless we let her. Any black blogger that does this, stop going to her site and reading her blog. If she loses readers enmass, she will never try it again and the rest would get the message. But, are people really going to do it?


----------



## JollyGal (Jul 2, 2014)

I feel indifference to uneasy. Same way I feel about "facial oil" and "hair oil treatments" being touted as a new discovery by big name brands such as l'oreal 

If we include white women in the natural hair movement should we include asian women who used to get chemical perms a few times a year to keep their hair straight?

i prefer to see black women's hair (afro, coily or curly) as the symbol of the natural hair movement than curly hair from a white woman or asian woman. Symbols have meaning and have power. There is little power in allowing other women to hijack this movement.

Black women have worked so hard to spread this movement to the masses using word of mouth, the internet, demanding products, setting up businesses and setting up stalls at hair and beauty shows. 
Lupita is talking about black afro hair in american vogue y'all! Black hair and the natural hair movement has sentimental value that cannot be bottled and sold

having said alla that sometimes we black women need to think about the benefits of including other women in our movements and ideas. Could the inclusion of other women allow the natural hair movement to reach other black women who get their hair care trends through other women?

Interesting question op


----------



## Foxglove (Jul 2, 2014)

Unsubscribed from CN because of her silence on this matter. This woman is pretty much now insulting CN's readers and fan base (the same base that got her where she is) and she hasnt said ish


----------



## Stormy (Jul 2, 2014)

blessedandfavoured said:


> *They don't have to struggle and search high and low for women in mainstream magazines or films that look like them or have similar hair.*
> _
> I still struggle as a 4ber! I've found quite a few Youtubers thank goodness, but it took awhile. One here, one there. Now I finally have a handful._
> 
> ...


----------



## applebananas (Jul 2, 2014)

Ms. Beat face snow beast got a youtube channel, Instagram and  twitter page

http://www.youtube.com/user/waterlily716

http://instagram.com/waterlily716

https://twitter.com/waterlily716


----------



## Starbucks (Jul 2, 2014)

For those who keep saying you should let "others" in...I think they are already here.  You can be the judge of it has helped you or not.  Out of curiosity I did a quick search and found:



> *Have you tried browsing such sites as longhaircareforum.com or other sites for women with long hair? LHCF is more directed towards black and multi-racial women, but they're very helpful towards other ethnicities as well. My hair has really grown in their care.*



There are others and some posts about an egg thread you guys have. So you have been the helpful Christian group already. There is nothing wrong with wanting something for yourself and making yourself a priority...for once.


----------



## Subscribe (Jul 2, 2014)

Honey Bee said:


> Subscribe, It's a reference to a spiritual, iirc. God would be the one saying it, not slave masters and such.



Thanks Honey Bee. I was referencing what slave masters would say to a black overseer or one they made whip the other slaves.


----------



## Divine. (Jul 2, 2014)

Her comments are exactly why she'll never be able to sit with us. She may say she can relate to us, but her backhanded comments show otherwise. I'm really offended she had the nerve to say that the natural hair movement isn't a movement at all. I should've never clicked on her Twitter page  

Just a few years ago, the only natural hair I saw was strictly 3b/3c curly hair. And even then, many of the girls I knew did not accept their hair and would turn to flat irons. If your hair wasn't flat ironed, it was relaxed. WE, not them, made all NATURAL hair positive. WE created this community. She can say what she pleases, but downplaying our efforts to overcome adversity? Naw, son


----------



## cocosweet (Jul 2, 2014)

I don't think I'm subscribed to her, but if I am (I'm about to check) I am unsubscribing.


----------



## curlytwirly06 (Jul 2, 2014)

I am seriously disliking this ladies commentary." The natural hair movement has nothing to do with skin color, just coils and waves". «	waterlily716 .  I seriously can't with this right know.


----------



## Bubblingbrownshuga (Jul 2, 2014)

As the late Bebe Moore put it- your blues (white woman) ain't like mine. * added white woman myself *


----------



## theRaven (Jul 2, 2014)

Ogoma said:


> She cannot force her way in unless we let her. Any black blogger that does this, stop going to her site and reading her blog. If she loses readers enmass, she will never try it again and the rest would get the message. But, are people really going to do it?


 

ITA. I agree wholeheartedly. There was a few reasons why I never really latched on to Curly Nikki's site. Both Curly Nikki and Naturally Curly are great websites for information and education on curly hair, kinky hair, or just textured hair in general. However I consider LHCf and BGLH to be specifically GEARED and FOR Black woman. That is why personally I am very pro Black ownership. 

THIS is why BLACK ownership is ssoooooo very important. Not even just Black ownership but Black supporters being informed and supportive. Sorta like how everyone is sooo over Esscence magazine. If I am am not mistaken edward Lewis sold Essence publication to Time INC back in 2005. 


Is this not the same when Lisa Price became a minority in her own company. Now look at the direction Carol's Daughter went with advertsing of their products.


----------



## MystiqueBabe (Jul 2, 2014)

Honey Bee said:


> Does this woman seem respectful to you?



I was just talking in general not necessarily for her sake, I didn't  read the whole board and just briefly skimmed the article but I see now  that she is causing a stir. In this case and after reading the article  completely and thinking about it, no I don't agree of WW being part of  the natural hair community, because they just can't really relate to it,  nothing against them personally and plus it just looks out of place.  They have sites like Naturally Curly and the like if they want to be  part of the CURLY hair community but not the NATURAL hair community. But  I don't have a problem with them getting advice, being curious to an  extent, or using and sharing natural/black hair products because I am sure that they  already do and it's not in my power to stop them from doing so. And I know I love Garnier conditioners, even got my brother using them too lol, and Garnier isn't "meant" for us either, so me stopping them from doing that isn't really fair.



SlimPickinz said:


> Girl. If she didn't post a pic of her "hair"  I would say she was one of them white ppl lurking and causing trouble  on this board.



Hey, not my fault if I am not the best picture taker in the world,  either my arms are too short, my head is too big, or both. But it's  grown a lot since then so an update is long overdue.


----------



## prettybyrd (Jul 2, 2014)

NaturallyATLPCH said:


> So turns out this chic did it to stir up some controversy?



And as far as we know, Curly Nikki conspired with her for clicks. 

I know how I can get, so I steer clear of threads like this, but the fact that she did this to stir up controversy says that she does not respect US and any black person who continues to side with her now, after that admission, gets a serious side eye from me.


----------



## SoSwanky (Jul 3, 2014)

southerncitygirl said:


> @Slimpicknz
> 
> You ain't neva lied, chile. How are you and your beautiful hurr, cuteness? You got plans for the 4th?
> 
> ...


 
I am late to the party, but...














Tis all.


----------



## SoSwanky (Jul 3, 2014)

Lucie

For your consideration...


----------



## DoDo (Jul 3, 2014)

SoSwanky said:


> Lucie
> 
> For your consideration...



Oh no you did not make that meme!

  

Wow at bye Felicity!


----------



## SoSwanky (Jul 3, 2014)

Yes. Yes I did!


----------



## frizzy (Jul 3, 2014)

This blankety blank is trying to redefine our natural hair movement and make it something completely different than it IS...that we can't claim.  How would we ever agree to let this happen now that she's been exposed?   No you can't join us because you don't belong in this.

She probably got more clicks and attention than she thought she would get and should not get to parlay that into anything more than being labeled as the trouble making troll that she is.


----------



## Cherokee-n-Black (Jul 3, 2014)

I'm glad the fb comments were posted, because her "response" sounded like a joke. "I've been natural my whole life." Really, white woman?  Because, that's just soooo unusual!  Come on.  I love how she is "embracing her privilege" all over a board that is geared towards african americans.  Is there a point to any of this?  Ah, but yes, now we see.  Because it was "fun" to stir up controversy about a painful legacy of denigration and humiliation perpetrated by the owners of her privilege who browbeat an entire culture into the very self-hate that we are only just now beginning to let go.  Nice.


----------



## brebre928 (Jul 3, 2014)

SoSwanky said:


> @Lucie
> 
> For your consideration...



HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DDTexlaxed (Jul 3, 2014)

Am I wrong in thinking that we could help each other? Why does our community feel like we are the only ones with naturally curly hair? Why does it always have to be exclusively for black/ Latino only? I know some white women with 4ab hair, too. Like it or not, they are natural, just like us.


----------



## Healthb4Length (Jul 3, 2014)

DDTexlaxed said:


> Am I wrong in thinking that we could help each other? Why does our community feel like we are the only ones with naturally curly hair? Why does it always have to be exclusively for black/ Latino only? I know some white women with 4ab hair, too. Like it or not, they are natural, just like us.



DDTexlaxed, there is no problem with each side learning from each other. It's a well known fact that curly hair is not exclusive to Blacks, yet our experience differ greatly. Due to the racial construct of this country and those in the Carribean and S. America Black peoples have yet to be on the same playing field as Whites. Throughout our collective history we've been humiliated and denigrated about our humanity, our feminity and yes our hair. It's more than just hair for Black people. Our represent a unique symbol of power and creativity that the larger establishment have loath, feared or been fascinated by. Blacks having a self autonomous hair movement shouldn't be judged nor should they be considered racists! It's that mentality why Blacks don't have a say so in the haircare industry and it's controlled by Koreans capitalizing off our culture. So no whites cannot and should not claim any part of #Team Natural! They can watch from the sidelines but to claim a part of it is a no go. We are not post racial just yet, if they were fair and inclusive then we wouldn't have had to start a movement or hair boards dedicated to the care of Black Hair.


----------



## angelhairtype4 (Jul 3, 2014)

DDTexlaxed said:


> Am I wrong in thinking that we could help each other? Why does our community feel like we are the only ones with naturally curly hair? Why does it always have to be exclusively for black/ Latino only? I know some white women with 4ab hair, too. Like it or not, they are natural, just like us.



I don't think this woman was trying to help. She said she just wanted controversy. 
She knows she doesn't experience problems some black woman with natural hair go through, she doesn't care. She just wanted to stick her nose in and say, "well here is my hair. I wanted it straight for a while, but now I'm comfy with having it curly." Personally I think she was also trying to show off her lack of kink.
She asked curlynikki if she could be featured. Nikki or whoever should have judged better because this lady is clearly basic. She reminds me of s**t white girls say to black women. 
So I think it's fair that we can be cautious of who we invite into our spaces. 

I don't understand why black people as a race seem to have to include everybody, when majority of black people have to fight to be included in everything. 
As a race we should worry about ourselves before we start worrying about everyone else. 

Adding:  Personally I believe we are all the same race, human, but we are in America. White people around think all black people are the same. I know we are all different, but that's just the way it is. Majority of every culture in America works to up build their own. Yet, we can't stop fighting each other long enough or backing everyone else to get our stuff together. When got something good going were supposed to feel bad because it's our own? Go tell that to Hispanics, Jew's,  Indians, or Asians who have their own cultural traditions, clubs, subdivisions... White people are already in everything. Like a spoiled child they need to learn about boundaries. 
They got clubs where black people still can't get in...I've typed to much. Stuff like this frustrates me about our race we put everybody else and their problems or ideas before us so we can never solve our own issues we stay stay divided.


----------



## DDTexlaxed (Jul 3, 2014)

I didn't read the whole posts where the person was basically trying to make a controversy, but honestly, I thought natural community embraced all. Guess I was wrong.


----------



## Bibliophile (Jul 3, 2014)

SoSwanky said:


> Lucie
> 
> For your consideration...



See, this meme has me cackling at work. I'm glad I have my own office.


----------



## SimJam (Jul 3, 2014)

blessedandfavoured said:


> Hello Sistas, this is my first post in the hair section!
> 
> 
> *In short, white women don't have to live with the legacy that Slavery and Colonialism have left to Negroes. To me, the natural hair movement isn't just about hair, it's also about taking steps to undo the damage that slavery and colonialism have done to black women (and where hair is concerned, men to a lesser degree) ALL over the world. We've been taught for generations to hate all our physical attributes, from our skin colour, to our hair texture, to our bodies, even our eye colour!*
> ...


 
^^^^THIS^^^^

It is soooo much more than just hair.

And the reason my this WW felt it was OK to just trivialize it (oh po me ..I had to wear my triangle hair in a bun all the time) is EXACTLY because she has not lived the mental oppression levelled at black people (and I say people because lets not forget that men be all up in the good hair and light skinnedness too) associated with natural black people hair and features

to quote the blessedandfavoured please, take a stadium of seats ... and this applies to black ppl who choose not to grasp this and continuing to poison our young girls and boys with their self hate.


----------



## Lucie (Jul 3, 2014)

SoSwanky said:


> @Lucie
> 
> For your consideration...


 
Thanks boo SoSwanky!!!! You chose the perfect pic!!!


----------



## Divine. (Jul 3, 2014)

SoSwanky said:


> Lucie
> 
> For your consideration...



Can we start sharing this?!  I want to share this so bad


----------



## Lucie (Jul 3, 2014)

Divine. said:


> Can we start sharing this?!  I want to share this so bad


 
divine, why not?


----------



## SoSwanky (Jul 3, 2014)

Divine. said:


> Can we start sharing this?!  I want to share this so bad


 

Yep- go head!


----------



## MrsRoger (Jul 3, 2014)

It doesn't bother me at all.


----------



## havilland (Jul 5, 2014)

I have no problems with WW being featured or sharing information with them or getting information from them. 

I don't care if they participate or want to "hang" with us.  We are all women and women share beauty secrets.  So let's share. 

My one and ONLY problem is the claim that Caucasian and African American women share the same struggle. That we share with Caucasian women the same root causes of the "come up" of the natural hair movement for women of color who are the descendants of slaves in the United States. 

No. Just NO. Do not claim your ability to now embrace your curls is the same as mine. It IS NOT!

Too many women in the thread and others have elaborated on this point for me to attempt to just repeat the same points over and over again. So I won't. 

So come on in and share. But don't belittle what I've been through by calling it the "same". 

When I read that she has been natural all her life....I stopped reading. My first gut reaction was "so....ummmm....what's the big deal? Why are you here then? What's the transition for YOU?  It's just your hair.  Always has been."  Girl bye.  

I know WW who are embracing their curls, natural hair color, Etc for the first time in their lives. And many of the ones I know personally express that I inspired them to do so. Exact words of one woman in her 60's who describes her hair as "horrible frizzy black girl curls".  She said to me "I figured if YOU can embrace your curls after all YOUR people have been through surrounding hair, then what's MY problem.  I got it easy compared to YOU". 

She meant that in the most respectful non racist way she could muster up to express.  (Yes. I checked her for the horrible hair comment. ). But that just goes to show, traditionally in the country the worst kind of hair you could have is hair like a Black girl?!  Wth!


But despite the sadness I found in what she said to me, I think she said it best as representing how lots of WW should feel about us.  She is trying to acknowledge my struggle.  I respectfully acknowledge hers.  BUT the struggle is different.  Period.  End of story. 

Self acceptance is easier when the only person condemning you is YOU. 

Self acceptance comes harder when you come through generations of a nation of haters who had the power to oppress you and enslave you.   Tell you that you and your hair and your skin and everything about you is not only inferior but horribly ugly and sets the standard for ugly.  

Yeah....sorry, Becky.  It's not the same.  And the minute you respect that is the minute I will share my hot six oil with you.


----------



## JulietWhiskey (Jul 5, 2014)

Ogoma said:


> She cannot force her way in unless we let her. *Any black blogger that does this, stop going to her site and reading her blog. If she loses readers enmass, she will never try it again and the rest would get the message. But, are people really going to do it?*


 
@Ogoma


Apparently, CN is deleting posts and blocking posters that do not agree with her gentrifying stance on the Natural Hair movement.

LHCF Sistern:

*ENOUGH IS ENOUGH*. Let's stop rockin' with her.

Now.

Today.

Just because she wants to make and sell this New Black Tea, *DOES NOT MEAN WE NEED TO BUY AND DRINK IT.*


*WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE OUR OWN POWER.*​


----------



## cami88 (Jul 5, 2014)

I never supported Curly Nikki before and I sure will not start now. I don't understand why a white woman would even be interested in being a part of a movement for and by black folks. Do they not have enough stuff of their own? I would not be so annoyed had Sarah, when corrected, humbly apologized and bowed out. But no. She continued with her righteous indignation. She does not belong here and  deserves to get dragged for being so bold and brazen. That goes for Nikki too.

Sent from my galaxy s4 using LHCF


----------



## cami88 (Jul 5, 2014)

DDTexlaxed said:


> Am I wrong in thinking that we could help each other? Why does our community feel like we are the only ones with naturally curly hair? Why does it always have to be exclusively for black/ Latino only? I know some white women with 4ab hair, too. Like it or not, they are natural, just like us.



I'm sorry but I don't believe you. If you can show me an unphotoshopped picture of a white person with  4b hair I shall gladly eat my words.

Sent from my galaxy s4 using LHCF


----------



## curlytwirly06 (Jul 5, 2014)

SimJam said:


> ^^^^THIS^^^^  It is soooo much more than just hair.  And the reason my this WW felt it was OK to just trivialize it (oh po me ..I had to wear my triangle hair in a bun all the time) is EXACTLY because she has not lived the mental oppression levelled at black people (and I say people because lets not forget that men be all up in the good hair and light skinnedness too) associated with natural black people hair and features  to quote the blessedandfavoured please, take a stadium of seats ... and this applies to black ppl who choose not to grasp this and continuing to poison our young girls and boys with their self hate.




I really like this response.


----------



## curlytwirly06 (Jul 5, 2014)

JulietWhiskey said:


> @Ogoma  Apparently, CN is deleting posts and blocking posters that do not agree with her getrifying stance on the Natural Hair movement.  LHCF Sistern:  ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Let's stop rockin' with her.  Now.  Today.  Just because she wants to sell this New Black Tea, DOES NOT MEAN WE NEED TO BUY IT.  WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE OUR OWN POWER.



And the church says...


----------



## Divine. (Jul 5, 2014)

I thought this comment was interesting:



> Oy. Ok, as a white person who used to post regularly here, and who accepts that White Privilege is real, I just find these White Whines so embarrassing. Like, all the advantages we have historically held, and still hold, and the way the culture has always catered to us, this is not enough for you? No, you have to stake a claim to somebody else's experience, you have to whine, "no, we suffer tooooooo," you have to horn in on somebody else's affirming space and insist that you are victims who are being left out. And you say this with no trace of irony.


----------



## GoldenRule (Jul 5, 2014)

I became sooooooo ill a few days ago it required a trip to the ER. In all that agony, I put off going to the hospital because I'd managed to crawl into the shower and take a shower sitting on the shower floor, but of course my entire head got wet so since I was down there chilling, I co-washed. I grabbed a towel and deposited my entire wet body back in the bed. It took me about 2 hours to get my hair combed thru and into a puff. Literally. Becky would think this was crazy but I am sure at least a few of you know what would happen to a head of uncombed, fully tangled, wet natural hair had I gone right out the shower and sat in the hospital looking crazy all day. Sorry, the struggle just isn't the same.


----------



## LdyKamz (Jul 5, 2014)

Divine. said:


> I thought this comment was interesting:



I've seen several white women checking her. One in particular even said, " you need to check yourself" or some variation as shown below lol

Eta: I found the post:

As a white woman I would like to encourage you to check yourself and I decline the offer to share this.* When a vast majority (not all, because that is just not how groups work) of a community of which you are not a part explains a problem to you about your behaivor,* IN THEIR SPACE, it does not matter that you "feel" it is being "blown out of proportion." It is entirely in proportion.* I would like you to focus as much energy as you have on the semantics of the word natural as hearing what is being said to you.* Listen.*﻿Show less


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 5, 2014)

WHY WASNT A TAGGED IN THIS?!?!?

Yall know I'm all militant up in this!!!!


Now to read all comments and catch up!


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 5, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? *They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable*...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.



Boom, right here!!!!  Right here right here!!!!


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 5, 2014)

Lia3257 said:


> Her response: http://curlsandblossoms.blogspot.com/2014/06/my-curlynikki-feature-natural-hair-and.html?m=1




I'm in shock by all the caping for this chick


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 5, 2014)

LaViolette said:


> She knew damn well what she was doing! She started this for kicks and giggles, using her privilege to cause this divisiveness for some petty attention. Smh..



I'm done... I just can not with these people any more


----------



## Fauxshim (Jul 5, 2014)

Not sure if these are all legit or not.


----------



## CodeRed (Jul 5, 2014)

Nicole Kidman is about the only white woman who might understand the struggle.

She started with this:






and has been rocking this instead for the past 20 years:





And after looking like she was dying and frying herself bald, she went back to her natural hue only (not really natural and excuse the obvious lip injections):






Could you imagine her trying to get a job with her natural hair


----------



## Saludable84 (Jul 5, 2014)

CodeRed said:


> Nicole Kidman is about the only white woman who might understand the struggle.  She started with this:  http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...N3gL5bEv_RDSXIVzQeTPHHsw&ust=1404699680286691  and has been rocking this instead for the past 20 years:  http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...N3gL5bEv_RDSXIVzQeTPHHsw&ust=1404699680286691  And after looking like she was dying and frying herself bald, she went back to her natural hue only (not really natural and excuse the obvious lip injections):  http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...N3gL5bEv_RDSXIVzQeTPHHsw&ust=1404699680286691  Could you imagine her trying to get a job with her natural hair



I remember that  her hair was a mess though. It looks really hard to tame as it looks dry and unruly. I've never seen it in its natural state since. Talk about running. She was cute with curly hair but as you already said, she would not have gotten where she is with them. Even Julia Roberts and Juliana Margullies got rid of theirs. And Juliana has beautiful curls.


----------



## Fauxshim (Jul 6, 2014)

CodeRed said:


> Nicole Kidman is about the only white woman who might understand the struggle.
> 
> She started with this:
> 
> ...







 at her hair. She must have been using sulfate shampoos.


----------



## EnExitStageLeft (Jul 6, 2014)

I posted this in the other thread but I figured I'd post it here too.



> Everyone is chiming in with the "This is a bait post" and "She wants more followers", but the reality is the followers she's getting won't stay for long. They're going to expect more Felicity (since she's clearly so Pro-Inclusion) and when she doesn't supply....POOF! They'll be gone quicker then they came.
> 
> Why? Because a large majority of people follow blogs based on relation. If they can't relate then they most likely won't stay. Nikki may be rolling in the Viva'La'Inclusion dough now, but give it a few months. The "Felicity" lovers will be slowly fade away. She'll then try to appeal to us again, but by then we'll already be long gone. Her blatant disregard for the snippy and downright DUMB remarks made by her seemingly clueless ploy, Sarah a.k.a "The Face of Felicity" has already solidified our decision to withdraw our support.
> 
> ...


----------



## curlytwirly06 (Jul 6, 2014)

EnExitStageLeft said:


> I posted this in the other threah but I figured I'd post it here too.



Slow clap. I really love this post.


----------



## EnExitStageLeft (Jul 6, 2014)

curlytwirly06 said:


> Slow clap. I really love this post.



Thanks girl! Its came from the deep. Nikki tried it .


----------



## CocoGlow (Jul 6, 2014)

CodeRed said:


> *Nicole Kidman is about the only white woman who might understand the struggle.*
> 
> She started with this:
> 
> ...



Whoa that first pic!  

Honestly as crazy as her hair looks in the first pic ... the fact that she started her career at a time when big curly hair was IN (for White people), she had no problem getting a job, right along with Julia Roberts & Juiliana Margullies, etc

Back at that time I can't recall any natural haired Black actresses getting shine besides Whoppi Goldberg with her locs. Even today, it's still a rare sight... All the popular Black actresses are rocking straight weaves.

Sure those curly haired White actresses may feel pressure to have straighter hair for "mass appeal" so they fry their curls into submission on the daily but their natural curls didn't get in the way of their careers in the past and would not today ... I've seen plenty of curly haired White actresses get shine

They still can't relate to our struggle though and if they wanted to rock their natural curls today, there are soooooo many places they can go to learn how to nurture their curls back to life from years of heat damage & relate to those with the same hair struggles... just not here


----------



## Gr8ness83 (Jul 6, 2014)

White women wear their natural hair all the time, they have not been ostracized, ridiculed and made to feel inferior because of their hair (as a group)  I'll be honest, I do not like it.  I mean, damn, can WE just have something to ourselves without having to "share"?  I don't mind sharing stuff like vitamins and all but let's be real, 99% of the time, they cannot relate to what women of color have to endure for the sake of our hair.  Their struggle is not my struggle and mine is not theirs... Just my opinion.... 

I will say though, I do not mind the White women who care for biracial children and are following the natural hair "movement" in order to better care for their childs hair... I can live with that, otherwise, I am not feeling it.


----------



## DayStar (Jul 6, 2014)

I do not want to see or interact with white women on this board.


----------



## NaturalPath (Jul 6, 2014)

Meh...I am probably one of the few on here who honestly wouldn't care. I have more important things to worry about.

Follow me: Twitter and Facebook: (DrBrandonND)


----------



## angelhairtype4 (Jul 6, 2014)

DayStar said:


> I do not want to see or interact with white women on this board.



Blunt but true.
I am surrounded by white people (not saying it's a bad thing), but majority of my interaction with various black people is online. Boards like this one is where I first learned that there are black nerds out there like me, black whovians, gamers, black beauty tips...etc, etc. Without having to filter through all the stuff geared towards white or other.

Where I am. I get told I'm different from other black girls, constantly was told I'm unique. Yea, as a young black girl who only sees the negative about her race in and outside her family you start to believe it. Boards like this showed me differently. Black women are all different. We are not this one typical stereotype everybody thinks of us, that we are portrayed as. 

That's why I think sites like this are important. It's a positive space for black woman, not just hair, but the beauty, diversity, and greatness of being a black women. That's the message I don't want washed away. A place to celebrate us. 
Every other race has it. Why do some of us feel like we can't. Like we have to accept everybody into everything we do. 

There are 2 Middle Easterners where I work. Nobody bats an eye when they converse together or try to interrupt them or anything, but out of me and two other black females everybody has a million questions, and what are yall doing, when God forbid we stop for a second to chat. Acting like we aren't doing our job. Mind you the white ladies working are loud, vulgar, and have big attitudes. Yet every focuses in on us. The looks don't just come from the White women, but from the middle easterner too.

I can't for the life of me understand why people feel so threatened when they see black people together. And some of you talking about let's include everyone acting like having just 1 or few spaces for ourselves like every other race has, is unfair. Why do some of you feel our race should not be entitled to what every other race gets?


----------



## january noir (Jul 6, 2014)

This conversation  is interesting on both sides of the topic.  I see both sides and I'm newly natural at the age of 56 (chopped off my relaxed hair a little over a year ago thanks to this site and other supportive groups and individuals, including my SO).

Is Natural the new "N-word?"  I wonder.   Time will tell.

I was watching Oprah's Super Soul Sunday this morning and she was interviewing Anne Lamont, a writer on spiritual topics like prayer and self acceptance.   She is a white woman who's natural hair is like ours and has been wearing dreads for some time now.  I read some articles she wrote and from 2009 and 2011 are interesting to me.

Be back to post the link when I am in front of my laptop and not on my iPad.

http://www.tortoisegeek.net/files/http___www.salon.com_dec96_lamott961216.pdf

http://www.christianitytoday.com/women/2011/august/christ-and-my-curly-hair.html?paging=off


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## Ogoma (Jul 6, 2014)

I am not obligated to make space for anybody's mother. I am sick and tired of people demanding things from me they don't demand from their mother's people. But, when it comes down to it that is where their loyalty lies (as it should. It is their mother).


----------



## curlytwirly06 (Jul 6, 2014)

Not my post, shared by a lady in another forum:

In light of recent events, I thought it would be a good idea to make a thread to list the New Blacks who have sold out so I and others can unsubscribe/ stop giving them clicks. So far I know of:

Curly Nikki (Obvs) ( Also notorious in her early days for stealing content, editing it, and pushing it off as her own a.k.a BGLH drama and her grease post- directly stolen and did not even bother to edit it before passing it off as her own) 

Denim Pixie (Quest for the Perfect Curl)
CharyJay
Taren916 (Also a bad example to represent BW, cheated and pregnant by a married man, dissed the wife on social media, been very messy, catty, to her) 

The Natural Haven (JC)
NaturalChica
SunKissed Alba
Melshary Arias

People to Support:
Jouelzy
KashTV
FusionofCultures
J. Joelle
HelloLowelo
Chime Edwards (aka Haircrush)
Rinny Riot

Background Information: (LUXE Thank you girl!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by luxe View Post
For those that need background.

Curly Nikki featured a white woman on her blog. Not a big deal when you consider the fact that CN is now owned by NaturallyCurly/Texture Media. However, things reached a fever pitch on Sunday when the white woman got on twitter proclaiming that black women were being exclusive, the natural hair movement was not created for black women, and that the blog is called "CURLY Nikki not BlackNikki". She deleted certain tweets once she got called out, but we have screencaps.

The thread covering everything is here.


There have been numerous articles, blogs, tumblr and facebook posts surrounding her reaction and both sides of the argument.

Some blogs/responses:
http://blackgirllonghair.com/2014/07...is-not-racism/
http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2014/...r-white-woman/
http://www.ebony.com/style/white-wom...#axzz36eNXanRx
http://blog.franchesca.net/post/9051...hair-tutorials
http://madamenoire.com/444464/seriou...n-teamnatural/
http://blackgirllonghair.com/2014/07...t-black-women/

Other responses (from twitter, facebook etc) were posted in the thread mentioned.

An Ebony writer (article listed above) chimed in very early in the debate speaking about the importance of the Natural Hair Movement and black women having safe spaces to commune and share experiences, motivations, and stories etc. 

Curly Nikki decided to respond (I refuse to link her blog, if you want to read her response it was posted in the thread I mentioned above) and focused on attacking Jamilah (author of the Ebony article) rather than discussing the debate at hand or the ignorant comments that Sarah (the white woman) made. She also tried to claim that her blog was always all inclusive and that she never started it for only black women, though her bio specifically says the opposite.



She basically sold out for white money/clicks/pageviews and is willing to alienate the black women who got her site to the place where it is today.

Melshary, Taren, SunKissAlba and others all spoke out in favor of CN and Sarah. The original thread is worth the read if you actually care, if you just want to be obtuse, kindly find a seat on the sidelines and stay there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Creole Kickin View Post
If anyone does not see the significance in boycotting some of these "gurus", I suggest you do some research. 

Some of these "gurus" have auctioned and sold themselves and their brand to the highest bidder. That highest bidder also happens to be white. 

So while you're watching and coveting these YTers, thinking they are doing something innovative with the "Natural Hair Movement", they are ushering in a new movement, which is to allow non-blacks in the "Natural Hair Movement". These "gurus" are serving as bridges between black women who by and large, experienced the "Natural Hair Movement" in peace without infiltration from others, and others who seek to infiltrate that space and capitalize on it---and eventually push black women out and either claim the movement for themselves or claim to have revolutionized the movement.

That is why you see these "gurus" aligning themselves with this mess and other non-blacks into the "Natural Hair Movement". 


I think the person who wrote this piece, made a good point. They also wrote that it is important to be careful in who you support and allow to become a talking head for your cause and community.


----------



## Bunnyhaslonghair (Jul 6, 2014)

Oh damn. They put ellepixie on blast? What did she do?


----------



## CaraWalker (Jul 6, 2014)

idk if this has been posted in this thread but i saw a post about it the other day that i loved



> sabaistica said: Since the natural hair community is exclusively black, should I, as a white woman with extremely curly hair and many years of curly problems behind, unsubsribe from countless natural blogs and never chat about hair with my black friends?





> Yes yes you should and after that you should look yourself in the mirror and come to the conclusion that you cannot have everything especially a sliver in a beauty community that is catered to your white ***. Another thing you should do is grow the **** up and get out of here with this ‘whoa is me ****’  like your curly hair equals centuries of deriding you & others like you based on hair you cannot help, ostracizing, cutting, relaxing, burning your scalp, getting sores, boils, and being told to take it not to mention being made to feel inferior just because of the way your hair grows out of your head. Being told that the only thing that makes you pretty is your straight hair, being made to fit into a beauty ideal that is the antithesis of who you are as a person and a woman
> 
> You will never be denied for a job because of your hair, you will never have the military put specific protocol on your hair. You will never have someone think you’re dirty because of the way your hair grows, never have the silent whispers, the pulling by strangers, made to be exotic, when you just living your goddamn life.  Please miss me with the bull****.
> 
> You are the goddamn prototype in the beauty world and you have the nerve to come to me with the faux victimization **** while little Black girls are being suspended for their hair, harassed, and then told to cut it because it doesn’t fit in the spectrum? Grow the **** up and realize that everything is not for you, that you aren’t entitled to **** and that being called frizzy franny or whatever the **** else you were called is a LUXURY, comparatively to the **** Black women have had to endure regarding their hair. So that’s what the **** you should do, grow the **** up and look outside of your whiny entitled bull****, I am not here for it.





> I guess you guys have your reasons for going off on her but she does have curly hair too. She’s just trying to connect with curly girls. What do y’all need to attack her like that? Honestly that whole response was uncalled for and rude. The girl was just trying to relate. Damn.





> She was condescending as **** in that message. Don’t come with that “she just wants to relate” she “had curly hair too”. She was trying to give a read and snatch like a rag doll. The natural hair movement is about so much more than having curly hair. That’s where you whites are coming off foul. You have no idea the roots of the movement yet you want to jump on the bandwagon. You can never relate to black women and out hair history. Do you still have burns on your ears from hot combs? Have you ever had bleeding scabs on your scalp from a relaxer? Many black women have physical scars, all from forcing our hair to be straight to fit European standards of beauty. Now we have created this small community to look to and white girls are running up and begging to be included when 95% of the beauty industry is aimed at them and doesn’t include us. Instead of asking us to include you spaces specifically made for us, ask your self why y’all are so pressed to included.





> I understand that it’s much more than that, I’ve been natural my WHOLE LIFE. I know the struggle, but that didn’t sound like she was trying to be rude in my opinion, and of you’re thinking I’m white. I’m not. I’m African. Could’ve been a little more polite. I read it and wasn’t offended in any way. Yes whites are think they’re entitled to a lot of things but why not try to educate her in a polite way. I’m sure she didn’t mean to offend anyone. So don’t come at me for trying to defend someone who’s under attack because some of you guys took it the wrong way.





> This will be one of the last times I address this, first point, I am not here to hold anyone’s hand or be their mystical Black guide into the world and nuance of Blackness. I have no time to coddle, hug, or give you things in a sweet package so it appeals to you better, my existence does not hing on me being nice nor does my survival in this world, it hinges on me being honest, concise, and straight to the point. I do not have the ****ing time t break **** down to people that can look for the information themselves, I did her a favor by letting her know what the deal is regarding the natural hair community. I am fiercely protective of Black spaces carved out in a white world,I am exclusionary because we only get that sliver, and trust me it’s only a sliver.
> 
> It does not matter if she didn’t mean to offend me, she did my her mere entitlement of thinking that she would be accepted if she got snide, or told me about her Black friends condoning her co-opting something built from the Black is beautiful days of past. This is a movement for and by Black people to see themselves in the light of something beautiful, so that we can know and see others in their natural beauty without Eurocentric beauty values attached. White women are the prototype of beauty on a HUGE scale so excuse the **** out of me for not catering to them like the rest of the world does and wanting a space for ME & other women & men like ME. Her minor inconveniences are not my ****ing issue man, and I am not going to make an allowance into spaces that were fought for no matter how small.
> 
> ...


----------



## IDareT'sHair (Jul 6, 2014)

I was picking up an Essence Mag that I got in the mail yesterday (A Free 1 Year Subscription from ordering Koils By Nature, Afroveda or Hairveda) one of those products offered a 1 year Free Subscription to Essence

And it made me start thinking about that interview I heard the other day on NPR regarding White Folks complaining (more or less) about the 20th Anniversary of the Essence Music Festival.

Anyway, it made me mad all over again. 

Where were all the White Folks when WE were the ones that bought and Supported Essence, Ebony and Jet for Decades? Where were they all at then?

The sheer nerve of them. WE Supported Essence Magazine and made it what it grew to become. Not them. 

And the same with a lot of these Natural Hair Care Lines, Blogs, Forums, etc....it was "OUR" Support and Patronage that help them achieve where they are.


----------



## Americka (Jul 6, 2014)

IDareT'sHair said:


> I was picking up an Essence Mag that I got in the mail yesterday (A Free 1 Year Subscription from ordering Koils By Nature, Afroveda or Hairveda) one of those products offered a 1 year Free Subscription to Essence
> 
> And it made me start thinking about that interview I heard the other day on NPR regarding White Folks complaining (more or less) about the 20th Anniversary of the Essence Music Festival.
> 
> ...



Hey, T! Great post!

I don't understand why white folks up in arms about Essence. The Jazz Fest is held 2.5 months prior to Essence and showcases talents of every genre. The year I went, Lenny Kravitz was on stage next to some country/western band. Then there would be no differentiation between the two festivals.

 So are white folks mad because they are not capitalizing on the millions of dollars Essence produces? I think so. I also believe this is the reason why they are trying to co-opt the natural hair movement as well. There are billions to be made...


----------



## IDareT'sHair (Jul 6, 2014)

Americka said:


> So are white folks mad because they are not capitalizing on the millions of dollars Essence produces? I think so. *I also believe this is the reason why they are trying to co-opt the natural hair movement as well. There are billions to be made...*


 
Americka

Exactly.......

Hey Ms. Lady!


----------



## angelhairtype4 (Jul 6, 2014)

bunnycolvin

You know I find it funny that the argument started with what the white lady said. Then the black lady jumps in to the white ladies defense. Now the two black ladies are arguing with each other while that white lady probably laughing it up with her white friends paying no nvm, as they look as we fight.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 6, 2014)

bunnycolvin said:


> idk if this has been posted in this thread but i saw a post about it the other day that i loved



Who posted that?!?!?  They took the words right from my brain and put it down in black and white!!!!  Unapologetic and honest!!!!


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 6, 2014)

angelhairtype4 said:


> @bunnycolvin
> 
> You know I find it funny that the argument started with what the white lady said. Then the black lady jumps in to the white ladies defense. Now the two black ladies are arguing with each other while that white lady probably laughing it up with her white friends paying no nvm, as they look as we fight.



Exactly!!!  Some are so quick to cape for the defenseless white woman biting the hand that looks like theirs and feels their pain.  For what I might add?!?  To feel more "noble" for playing Cpt save a Becky???

And cant no body tell me that womans org post was not snotty AF!!!  She deserved the tongue lashing she so desperately asked for.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 6, 2014)

CodeRed said:


> Nicole Kidman is about the only white woman who might understand the struggle.
> 
> She started with this:




This aint a perm???  You know white folk love them some curly perms.


----------



## Saludable84 (Jul 6, 2014)

angelhairtype4 said:


> bunnycolvin  You know I find it funny that the argument started with what the white lady said. Then the black lady jumps in to the white ladies defense. Now the two black ladies are arguing with each other while that white lady probably laughing it up with her white friends paying no nvm, as they look as we fight.



While ITA I also think it takes situations like the realize how divided our community is and why it is important that we teach our own. She could have been much nicer about it, I mean I blushed a few times reading that, but while the sisters are arguing, we have to show the weakness in our community. That weakness at times can be pure innocent ignorance of some women just not understanding why BW don't want WW in our community. 

For me it's about us having something of our own and being accepted by our own for once. It's not fair that when we get it, others feel so threatened they want to be included when not much is made for use but for them. We just need something and show that we can be a strong community too. Our community is so broken that we need to be tested and see what needs to be fixed without bullying and harassment. We need to be on the same page with those who agree and understand that there are some who won't and won't tolerate their passivity. Rome was not built in a day and our community can not be strengthened and bought together in one either. It's going to take time to being us together but as long as we fight for what we believe and teach our sisters without fear of outcast, eventually WW who choose to provoke us won't cause these issues.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 6, 2014)

And THAT^^^  is exactly why we NEED this to stay for US only!!!!

We can not expect to have any type of unity when we allow our children to be taught by any one other than US!  That is why there is so much caping for them.  They have conditioned us and brain washed us into seeing each other as the enemy, and as the saying goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" so they go and rescue these white women causing turmoil amongst our own because they have been taught that their own is their enemy!!!!

We are not each others enemy and we should not be putting our neck on the lines to play rescue rangers for these woman who dont give a rats behind for what is good for us, our children and our community!!!


----------



## felic1 (Jul 6, 2014)

Discussing things that we do helps break down barriers between ethnic groups. After saying that I believe that white women should be part of the natural hair movement as soon as their hair becomes nappy.


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## LadyRaider (Jul 6, 2014)

White women do have issues with blow drying and flat ironing their hair. But the natural hair movement refers to the relaxer-free life. I'd say technically white women, unless they've been addicted to relaxing as well, don't qualify. However, they are better off skipping the heat just like us. Soooo... I guess it's not really worth fighting over.


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## Solitude (Jul 7, 2014)

JulietWhiskey said:


> @Ogoma
> 
> 
> Apparently, CN is deleting posts and blocking posters that do not agree with her gentrifying stance on the Natural Hair movement.
> ...


 
Calling each other "New Blacks" and coons and whatever other names does not help the issue. There are blacks who have differing opinions on issues that are not sellouts, coons, racs, new blacks, or whatever else. 

Why is it that black people are the only ones that are not allowed to have individual viewpoints? We don't all have to think alike about an issue, geesh. 

Further, I have noticed that it seems like only successful blacks are labeled "new blacks" yet it is supposed to be an insult. 

Pharrell Williams is the only black person that I have heard of refer to himself as a new black, so he can rightfully be labeled as such. But now, any successful black person who expresses a differing view on race relations is labeled a "new black" as if it is an insult, yet these people are surviving, thriving, and doing a lot for the black community. Are all blacks supposed to want to be in the #struggle 24/hours a day, seven days a week? 

You are talking about recognizing our own power and that is what Pharrell was talking about as well.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 7, 2014)

LadyRaider said:


> White women do have issues with blow drying and flat ironing their hair. But the natural hair movement refers to the relaxer-free life. I'd say technically white women, unless they've been addicted to relaxing as well, don't qualify. However, they are better off skipping the heat just like us. Soooo... I guess it's not really worth fighting over.


 
While I do not think a white woman's hair experience is the same as ours, I do think many of them struggle. I CANNOT IMAGINE waking up blow-drying my hair straight _every day_. The fact that many of them also got relaxers and straightening treatments speaks volumes to me. I think the WW involved in this controversy may not have a relatable experience, but I wouldn't dismiss all white women's hair experiences. 

The bias against curly hair of all types is as subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of racism. The fact that white women also feel the need to straighten their hair for cultural reasons illustrates how far and deep racism reaches, sometimes beyond black culture. To completely shut white women down is to shut down an important part of the dialogue, in my opinion.


----------



## aquajoyice (Jul 7, 2014)

I think they need to come up with their own hair movement, give it a name and keep it moving.


----------



## aquajoyice (Jul 7, 2014)

Solitude said:


> While I do not think a white woman's hair experience is the same as ours, I do think many of them struggle. I CANNOT IMAGINE waking up blow-drying my hair straight _every day_. The fact that many of them also got relaxers and straightening treatments speaks volumes to me. I think the WW involved in this controversy may not have a relatable experience, but I wouldn't dismiss all white women's hair experiences.
> 
> The bias against curly hair of all types is as subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of racism. The fact that white women also feel the need to straighten their hair for cultural reasons illustrates how far and deep racism reaches, sometimes beyond black culture. To completely shut white women down is to shut down an important part of the dialogue, in my opinion.



I completely understand your point here. I've seen several of them bleaching their hair to an inch if it's life and using an insane amount of heat to straighten. It seems they are trying to conform to a standard of beauty that is challenging to them. I'm sure some of them think they can do whatever they want and not really worry about the health until it's too late. 

With that being said their experiences cannot compare to what BW have had to deal with. Our natural hair will never fit into "their" standard of beauty. We need a hair movement to educate and build up our confidence of owning our natural textures. As BW we have to look out for us because no one else will. 

Why are they interested in joining our hair movement in the first place? Why do we have to take in every stray that doesn't feel their own community accepts them? Can't they come together and create their own movement and learn how to maintain their hair? I just find it odd that a group that has never come to our defenses all of a sudden wants to be part of a movement that they don't even understand. 

I can understand if they want to educate themselves on black hair but besides that I don't see why they feel the need to be a member.


----------



## CaraWalker (Jul 7, 2014)

aquajoyice said:


> I think they need to come up with their own hair movement, give it a name and keep it moving.



exactly. nobody is saying white women never struggle with their hair rolleyes: who cares?) but if that struggle is not comparable to ours, why would they want o be in our group? they have no problem being exclusive when it comes to them, why the sudden need to be inclusive? 

i wonder why are black people so afraid of having something that's only theirs? why do some of you always feel the need to invite others who dont even belong?


----------



## Femmefatal1981 (Jul 7, 2014)

Solitude said:


> While I do not think a white woman's hair experience is the same as ours, I do think many of them struggle. I CANNOT IMAGINE waking up blow-drying my hair straight every day. The fact that many of them also got relaxers and straightening treatments speaks volumes to me. I think the WW involved in this controversy may not have a relatable experience, but I wouldn't dismiss all white women's hair experiences.  The bias against curly hair of all types is as subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of racism. The fact that white women also feel the need to straighten their hair for cultural reasons illustrates how far and deep racism reaches, sometimes beyond black culture. To completely shut white women down is to shut down an important part of the dialogue, in my opinion.



Then let them create their own movement. Problem solved. Leave us alone, their presence is  not needed or wanted.


----------



## SimJam (Jul 7, 2014)

#trianglehairstruggle #blowdrylife #frizzysukks 

there ... now go bond over that #felicity


----------



## Blairx0 (Jul 7, 2014)

Reminded of the conversation i read in this thread, so I thought I would share :


----------



## krikit96 (Jul 7, 2014)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> Then let them create their own movement. Problem solved. Leave us alone, their presence is  not needed or wanted.



This statement right here... The END.


----------



## Pinkicey (Jul 7, 2014)

I don't see the problem.  I work with curly haired white women who feel like they have to flat iron their hair every day.  Many of the ones who have that brownish blonde hair color feel like they have to dye their hair all the way blonde blonde or just brown.  Out of the 50+ white women I work with, I can estimate maybe only 10 of them who where their natural color.  Out of the 4 who have admitted to having curly hair, only 1 keeps hers curly.  
Don't get me wrong though.  We, black women, still need our own products because our hair is still way different than theirs.


----------



## Brwnbeauti (Jul 7, 2014)

When have white women EVER accepted us into anything of theirs? Or white people?  They should create their own space, not build upon our momentum (I'm not even natural but that's cray to me!)


----------



## Femmefatal1981 (Jul 7, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.



There is nothing left to be says after the post...


----------



## shermeezy (Jul 7, 2014)

Thank you for this history lesson of the beginnings of this board. 

*"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"*

We need to be inclusive with one another in the Black community before we even begin to discuss inviting others to join the discussion. The creator at CurlyNikki has made her choice and she must live with the fallout. Callously disregarding your core group of supporters is never a smart move.   




Femmefatal1981 said:


> There is nothing left to be says after the post...


----------



## bellebebe (Jul 7, 2014)

The struggle was never real for them, so I don't consider them going "natural".


----------



## CaraWalker (Jul 7, 2014)

wowwwwwwwwwwww i didnt know that was lhcf's origin story  and isnt this the same group of women? (the other) long hair forum?


----------



## Froreal3 (Jul 7, 2014)

^^^I don't think it's the LHC that they're referencing. 

Anyway, I still don't get it. For the past however many decades, black people have differentiated "natural hair" and "permed" hair. Where was everybody back then? Since when do white women go "natural" in the way that the black community has come to understand the term? I really don't understand why they are just now trying to insert themselves into this. Is it because the internet has allowed cultures to interact more? 

Also, I really don't understand why some black women feel that including others in the natural world as it relates to black women will somehow miraculously make black hair appeal to the masses. 

That is backward and flawed logic. Just because white women want to claim they are "natural" in the same way that we do (related to hair texture vs. color etc), does not mean that all of a sudden we will be able to wear our hair the way it grows out of our scalps in corporate offices. Our hair will only be accepted when we readily accept it more. There is a stark difference between acceptance of our hair and co-opting/appropriation of our cultural terms and ideologies. The latter does not bring about the former.

^^^Why don't people want to understand this? I would like someone with a differing viewpoint to please explain how one equates to the other.

Sidenote: I've read a bunch of blogs and I see the message that we're trying to convey is being altered as well. People have been saying that black ladies with type 3 hair are not part of this. That couldn't be further from the truth. We're not talking about type 3 women in the diaspora. We're talking about the way our cultural understanding of what it means to be "natural" is being taken from us and skewed.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 7, 2014)

SimJam said:


> #trianglehairstruggle #blowdrylife #frizzysukks
> 
> there ... now go bond over that #felicity



I about peed my self


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 7, 2014)

Froreal3 said:


> ^^^I don't think it's the LHC that they're referencing.
> 
> Anyway, I still don't get it. For the past however many decades, black people have differentiated "natural hair" and "permed" hair. Where was everybody back then? Since when do white women go "natural" in the way that the black community has come to understand the term? I really don't understand why they are just now trying to insert themselves into this. Is it because the internet has allowed cultures to interact more?
> 
> ...



And let the church say amen!


----------



## aquajoyice (Jul 7, 2014)

bunnycolvin said:


> exactly. nobody is saying white women never struggle with their hair rolleyes: who cares?) but if that struggle is not comparable to ours, why would they want o be in our group? they have no problem being exclusive when it comes to them, why the sudden need to be inclusive?
> 
> *i wonder why are black people so afraid of having something that's only theirs? why do some of you always feel the need to invite others who dont even belong?*



THIS. We've been historically excluded from everything that could potentially help us succeed. Why can't we have something for us by us? 

Some folks may think that it's a way to come together by allowing others in. I say screw that. So many of our ideas have been taken then turned around to exclude us. Not this. 

We don't have time or the manpower to save all the strays of the world.


----------



## Honey Bee (Jul 8, 2014)

Solitude said:


> Calling each other "New Blacks" and coons and whatever other names does not help the issue. There are blacks who have differing opinions on issues that are not sellouts, coons, racs, new blacks, or whatever else.
> 
> Why is it that black people are the only ones that are not allowed to have individual viewpoints? We don't all have to think alike about an issue, geesh.
> 
> ...



Lawd, this is not about Pharrell and/ or 'new Blacks'. This is about ww encroaching on our ish _as usual._ 

Stay focused.


----------



## CaraWalker (Jul 8, 2014)

yo white women, yall can get in on this when there was ever a law demanding you cover up your different hair.



> ith a little digging I found that there was in fact a “law” of sorts that demanded women of color in Louisiana to cover their hair with a fabric cloth starting in 1789 as a part of what was called the Bando du buen gobierno (Edict for Good Government).  What these rules were meant to do was try to curtail the growing influence of the free black population and keep the social order of the time. The edict included sections specifically about the changing of certain “unacceptable” behaviors of the free black women in the colony including putting an end to what he and others believed to be the overly ostentatious hairstyles of these ladies which drew the attention of white men, and the jealousy of white women. These rules are called the “Tignon Laws” A tignon (pronounced “tiyon”) is a headdress


.

http://blackgirllonghair.com/2014/0...ere-banned-from-wearing-their-hair-in-public/


----------



## Gin&Tonic (Jul 8, 2014)

Solitude said:


> While I do not think a white woman's hair experience is the same as ours, I do think many of them struggle. I CANNOT IMAGINE waking up blow-drying my hair straight every day. The fact that many of them also got relaxers and straightening treatments speaks volumes to me. I think the WW involved in this controversy may not have a relatable experience, but I wouldn't dismiss all white women's hair experiences.  The bias against curly hair of all types is as subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of racism. The fact that white women also feel the need to straighten their hair for cultural reasons illustrates how far and deep racism reaches, sometimes beyond black culture. To completely shut white women down is to shut down an important part of the dialogue, in my opinion.



My shi-tzu lives for the blow dryer . Can he join the movement? What does a white woman know about us? Why are some folks invested in white folks being educated about our hair? That's just silly .

They have a hair movement for white women. It's called the curly hair movement. 

Sometimes I think black people take integration too far. This is why we can't come up as a people.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 8, 2014)

Honey Bee said:


> Lawd, this is not about Pharrell and/ or 'new Blacks'. This is about ww encroaching on our ish _as usual._
> 
> Stay focused.



You don't need to tell me to stay focused. You need to go back into the thread and tell the poster that I quoted. She was the one who referenced New Blacks and that is the person that I was responding to. 



Gin&Tonic said:


> My shi-tzu lives for the blow dryer . Can he join the movement? What does a white woman know about us? Why are some folks invested in white folks being educated about our hair? That's just silly .
> 
> They have a hair movement for white women. It's called the curly hair movement.
> 
> Sometimes I think black people take integration too far. This is why we can't come up as a people.



Women of all races are part of the "curly hair" movement, so that's not something reserved for white women. You can't live in a culture and want to be included in traditionally "white" arenas, but not want them to be included in any of ours. It doesn't work like that. I am not concerned about whites "taking over" the natural hair movement because no one can come and "take over" the hair on my head. 

Unless a WW is going to somehow figure out a way to grow Type 4 kinky/curly hair, then I don't have much to worry about. As deep as hair may be at times, it's still *aesthetic*. When you log off, most people in the world aren't concerned about the natural hair movement, like at all. 

I also get annoyed with people acting like we *need *a "natural hair movement" to wear our hair. Black women have *always *worn natural hair, braids, twists, etc. The only difference now is that there are more of us and new styles. The "movement" could come and go and you can still wear your hair how you want to, natural or otherwise. 

To use this as an example of when integration goes wrong is kind of extreme. We're talking about hair here. Black women have been emulating the styles of other cultures to the point of literally wearing other women's hair, but I guess we don't want to talk about that, right?


----------



## Solitude (Jul 8, 2014)

aquajoyice said:


> I completely understand your point here. I've seen several of them bleaching their hair to an inch if it's life and using an insane amount of heat to straighten. It seems they are trying to conform to a standard of beauty that is challenging to them. I'm sure some of them think they can do whatever they want and not really worry about the health until it's too late.
> 
> With that being said their experiences cannot compare to what BW have had to deal with. *Our natural hair will never fit into "their" standard of beauty. We need a hair movement to educate and build up our confidence of owning our natural textures.* As BW we have to look out for us because no one else will.
> 
> ...



I agree with many of your points, here, but how much MORE do we need to "build our confidence up?" I didn't think Curly Nikki's response was that great, but she did point out that she has featured *thousands of black women *compared to a handful of white women, yet people feel threatened by this one annoying WW. 

We have thousands of tumblrs, blogs, YT channels, forums, IGs, and Pinterest pictures of black women rocking natural hair. We have books, websites, product lines, etc...tons more stuff than when I started my hair journey. How does a handful of white people being featured on a website derail the thousands of black people that have been featured? We are giving this situation way too much influence. 

Who are the gatekeepers for this so-called "movement," anyway? I remember when it was about just having healthy hair and people would post tips from WW as well, all of the time. Naturals and relaxed haired women used to share tips too. Now, it's like to be part of the "movement" you need to prove your black card and have type 4 hair. It's annoying.


----------



## SlimPickinz (Jul 8, 2014)

I was watching YouTube yesterday and a target commercial for "curly" hair played. It was a WW with type 1 hair using Shea moisture. I typed up a letter to target immediately.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 8, 2014)

SlimPickinz said:


> I was watching YouTube yesterday and a target commercial for "curly" hair played. It was a WW with type 1 hair using Shea moisture. I typed up a letter to target immediately.



Why? Shea Moisture was founded by a black family, but WW use their products, too.


----------



## Ogoma (Jul 8, 2014)

SlimPickinz said:


> I was watching YouTube yesterday and a target commercial for "curly" hair played. It was a WW with type 1 hair using Shea moisture. I typed up a letter to target immediately.



There it begins. We start getting cut out in little ways. Black actresses that would have booked those gigs are no longer auditioned. It books Herbal Essences or Tresemme part 2: where we use the product but they don't want us anywhere near the ads.


----------



## curlinterrupted (Jul 8, 2014)

Honestly, we should all agree to sneer and ignore them. They obviously are SUPER thirsty for attention and are trying to subtly point out their hair is better even in its AFRO state.

I see this and think "girl bye". That's how it should be handled. 

They get no play. Don't be mad they are trying to steal shine. Uh, no ****, this is our ish and you can take MULTIPLE seats ;-)


----------



## Starbucks (Jul 8, 2014)

Solitude said:


> Women of all races are part of the "curly hair" movement, so that's not something reserved for white women. You can't live in a culture and want to be included in traditionally "white" arenas, but not want them to be included in any of ours. It doesn't work like that. I am not concerned about whites "taking over" the natural hair movement because no one can come and "take over" the hair on my head.
> 
> Unless a WW is going to somehow figure out a way to grow Type 4 kinky/curly hair, then I don't have much to worry about. As deep as hair may be at times, it's still *aesthetic*. When you log off, most people in the world aren't concerned about the natural hair movement, like at all.
> 
> ...



Hi,

I think you are referring to hairstyles vs a movement toward self acceptance.  To you, it may just be learning to have healthy hair. And that's ok. But to other people, it's more than that, and they have a right not to want it appropriated.

As an analogy, this whole thing reminds me of the origins of rap music. To some people "it's not that deep, it's just music." But for some of the original artists, it was a real movement that meant something. Then it became more commercialized, MAJORLY appropriated (yes that had a lot to do with sell outs, I know), into a distorted mess that many of us are ashamed of today.  And now black people are not even the face of that in some cases. And some of the ones who are...are just caricatures.

This is why I can't support websites like rapgenius. Sorry. I can't bring myself to give it clicks. You have a Jewish guy and Indian guy now making money off the rap lyrics that in many cases, meant something to a specific culture. It is appropriation.  I don't think the same cultures would *allow *anyone to come in and create a Bollywood or Purim site that they have no say in and appropriate / bank off of their culture like that.  Just saying.

Phew, a bit of a tangent, but it was supposed to be an analogy.    I'm happy you're happy. We will have to agree to disagree.


----------



## LdyKamz (Jul 8, 2014)

Solitude said:


> You don't need to tell me to stay focused. You need to go back into the thread and tell the poster that I quoted. She was the one who referenced New Blacks and that is the person that I was responding to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But we are talking about that. We are talking about the reasons why this is so important to so many black women. And that is one of the reasons. Black women didn't just decide hey straight hair looks better than my own let me go get some weave. It was beat into us that our hair was not OK. Which is exactly why this "movement" is important. All the weaves, relaxers, jheri curl products etc. Why do you think those things came into existence in the first place. The old commercials telling women if they want to be beautiful use this relaxer and all that. Where did that come from? Not us.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 8, 2014)

Starbucks said:


> Hi,
> 
> I think you are referring to hairstyles vs a movement toward self acceptance.  To you, it may just be learning to have healthy hair. And that's ok. But to other people, it's more than that, and they have a right not to want it appropriated.
> 
> ...



The thing is, I don't necessarily disagree. *I'm all for blacks having our own*, but what I don't like that I'm see in multiple threads is: 

1. The attacks on other black bloggers/vloggers. I don't see any other race of people collectively attacking beauty bloggers and vloggers who partner with people of other races. 

2. The allegations of misappropriation of things that don't belong to "us." "Natural hair" doesn't belong exclusively to black people, and we (those of us posting here on the topic) don't "own" these "natural hair" companies or "natural hair" blogs, etc. Those are businesses and they are not going to limit their reach by marketing and selling exclusively to blacks. 

These days, no one in America gets to have their own. That's the tone of this nation right now. Any separatism is seen as a bad thing. 

3. I don't like how we are not acknowledging our part in the matter, most specifically how we wear weaves. It is true that we had to assimilate by wearing _straight _hairstyles, but literally wearing the hair grown on another woman's head from another culture goes into appropriation territory. For some reason, though, we feel like we have a right to wear Indian women's hair (many of whom did not give their hair up voluntarily ). 

Anyway, there are so many different threads on this and so many varying opinions that I think the messages are getting crossed. Like I said, I'm all for us having our own, but we have to face the reality that with social media and the changing times, pretty much everyone has to share.


----------



## LdyKamz (Jul 8, 2014)

Solitude said:


> The thing is, I don't necessarily disagree. *I'm all for blacks having our own*, but what I don't like that I'm see in multiple threads is:
> 
> 1. The attacks on other black bloggers/vloggers. I don't see any other race of people collectively attacking beauty bloggers and vloggers who partner with people of other races.
> 
> ...



Re the first bold: And this is our fault how? MOST women who wear weaves will almost happily tell you that they look ugly without weave or that they look like a slave(I've actually heard this). It's not that they feel they have a RIGHT. It's more they've been told they need to. If they had been taught they didn't do to then maybe I might understand this argument.

Re the second bold: Everyone doesn't have to share and most people aren't. Only black people are being forced to share every single thing in our culture with any and everyone who decides they want in. It's been said multiple times in all these threads that there are plenty of ethnic groups who have been successful at keeping their groups from being infiltrated. Why not us? Because we've been told we have to share. And I honestly don't understand why.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 8, 2014)

KammyGirl said:


> But we are talking about that. We are talking about the reasons why this is so important to so many black women. And that is one of the reasons. Black women didn't just decide hey straight hair looks better than my own let me go get some weave. It was beat into us that our hair was not OK. Which is exactly why this "movement" is important. All the weaves, relaxers, jheri curl products etc. Why do you think those things came into existence in the first place. The old commercials telling women if they want to be beautiful use this relaxer and all that. Where did that come from? Not us.



Yes, we wore _our own hair_ in straight styles to *assimilate*, but *IMO *wearing the hair from another woman's head goes into *appropriation *territory. 

I don't see how one could argue that it's not, especially considering that hair weaves only because popular/common in the last 10-15 years. Do you think Indian woman appreciate us walking around with 28 inches of hair that's actually theirs? Or do we think that it's not possible for black women to be guilty of misappropriate because we have been victims of social and racial injustice?


----------



## LdyKamz (Jul 8, 2014)

Solitude said:


> Yes, we wore _our own hair_ in straight styles to *assimilate*, but *IMO *wearing the hair from another woman's head goes into *appropriation *territory.
> 
> I don't see how one could argue that it's not, especially considering that hair weaves only because popular/common in the last 10-15 years. Do you think Indian woman appreciate us walking around with 28 inches of hair that's actually theirs? Or do we think that it's not possible for black women to be guilty of misappropriate because we have been victims of social and racial injustice?



Black women have been wearing wigs since FOREVER. Were those made out of real hair? Who do we blame for that?


----------



## Solitude (Jul 8, 2014)

KammyGirl said:


> Re the first bold: And this is our fault how? MOST women who wear weaves will almost happily tell you that they look ugly without weave or that they look like a slave(I've actually heard this). It's not that they feel they have a RIGHT. It's more they've been told they need to. If they had been taught they didn't do to then maybe I might understand this argument.
> 
> Re the second bold: Everyone doesn't have to share and most people aren't. Only black people are being forced to share every single thing in our culture with any and everyone who decides they want in. It's been said multiple times in all these threads that there are plenty of ethnic groups who have been successful at keeping their groups from being infiltrated. Why not us? Because we've been told we have to share. And I honestly don't understand why.



To say that blacks are the only people who have to share is just...um...*wrong* . Please look around and tell me who has exclusivity in this nation? 

Specifically on the topic of hair, I can't think of anything hair-related that is exclusively for "whites" or exclusively for "Indians." Heck, we have "black" hair care lines based on Indian hair care traditions.


----------



## felic1 (Jul 8, 2014)

I read this morning that the Ku Klux Klan is planning to demonstrate at The Charles Wright Museum of African American History. The Klan is demanding that white history be included at the African American Museum. This museum is here in Detroit, Michigan. The Klan is demanding inclusion. Now, we have not equated last weeks nonsense with the Ku Klux Klan but to have this historically murderous organization show up to demand justice is terrible. Perhaps they need to start a controversy. There is a problem associated with Black people having special groups and areas of cohesiveness in this country. Thoughts?


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## Solitude (Jul 8, 2014)

KammyGirl said:


> Black women have been wearing wigs since FOREVER. Were those made out of real hair? Who do we blame for that?



I'm talking about the CURRENT, POPULAR 20+ inch Indian hair weaves made from hair stolen from Indian woman who either sacrificed to their Gods or had it snatched off of their heads. 

In the days you are probably talking about, yes, groups like the Supremes wore short, natural-looking wigs that emulated European styles because they had to in order to be accepted in the music industry, and some black women wore them when they went to work in white people's homes. 

What is the reason for today's 28 inch sew-ins worn by everyday women? That isn't for acceptance based on the European ideal because the weaves aren't from and don't look European. That's appropriation of a certain look that Indian and Brazilian (etc.) women have.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 8, 2014)

Solitude said:


> Yes, we wore our own hair in straight styles to assimilate, but IMO wearing the hair from another woman's head goes into appropriation territory.
> 
> I don't see how one could argue that it's not, especially considering that hair weaves only because popular/common in the last 10-15 years. Do you think Indian woman appreciate us walking around with 28 inches of hair that's actually theirs? Or do we think that it's not possible for black women to be guilty of misappropriate because we have been victims of social and racial injustice?



The Chinese who practically have the weave market on lock would say they appreciate it greatly.  As for the Indian women who have their hair stolen, I'm sure they dont appreciate it. But the Indian men who are the ones selling it to the Chinese are getting the benefit of that money too.

While our women are dishing out millions and receive nothing but criticism over it.

Have you been to an Indian forum or all Asian forum? Whats said about us is nothing nice.

All the while our own say (even on this forum) that they cant be natural because of work or are natural but wear weaves and wigs because of work.

No one else is going through that! No one else is told the hair from their head is not work appropriate. No one else is treated like their in a petting zoo where white people think they have the right to just come up and start touching your hair. No one else gets looked at like "the angry black woman" when you back up and tell them not to touch your hair. 

You've already said you understand where we're coming from about why we feel some kind of way about this. Yet you persistently tell us why we shouldn't. 

That I dont fully comprehend yet I dont need an answer to it. You feel the way you feel and we feel the way we feel. Point blank.

Why must we justify feeling the need for our own space in this vast world?


----------



## LdyKamz (Jul 8, 2014)

Solitude said:


> I'm talking about the CURRENT, POPULAR 20+ inch Indian hair weaves made from hair stolen from Indian woman who either sacrificed to their Gods or had it snatched off of their heads.
> 
> In the days you are probably talking about, yes, groups like the Supremes wore short, natural-looking wigs that emulated European styles because they had to in order to be accepted in the music industry, and some black women wore them when they went to work in white people's homes.
> 
> What is the reason for today's 28 inch sew-ins worn by everyday women? That isn't for acceptance based on the European ideal because the weaves aren't from and don't look European. That's appropriation of a certain look that women Indian and Brazilian (etc.) women have.



Oh, I understand what you're saying now. But the way we look I think is still dependent on the European beauty standard. Times change and styles change. This is the style now. The white women in ads and on television have long flowing locks w/ barrel curls and that is the standard. Even white women are getting weaves for this particular style because it is what is "in" now. 

I am natural now. And I wear my hair out. People stare at me allll the time. Sometimes when people are talking to me in my office they are looking at my hair instead of at my face. If I had a different mindset I would probably go out and get the latest hairstyle too - which just so happens to be the long flowing weave.

Anyway, I think we've gone just a tad off topic.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 8, 2014)

Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> The Chinese who practically have the weave market on lock would say they appreciate it greatly.  As for the Indian women who have their hair stolen, I'm sure they dont appreciate it. But the Indian men who are the ones selling it to the Chinese are getting the benefit of that money too.
> 
> While our women are dishing out millions and receive nothing but criticism over it.
> 
> ...



You don't have to justify anything to me. 

Regarding your comments about "they don't go through that," that is not true. Lorraine Massey was forced to straighten her curly hair at a salon that she worked at, and instead she quit. There are other stories in the Curly Girl Handbook of white women with curly hair were told to straighten their hair for job interviews or told that curly hair is not professional. It's no coincidence that a lot of WW start out with curly hair in Hollywood and slowly move to the ideal straight, blonde hair. 

Black women have been wearing natural hair to work. Wearing a weave is a choice. *The people that are wearing weaves due to discrimination at work are few and far between.* There are also very few that are like Philly Jamz Poet, who has a medical condition.  

Most of these women buying $300 wigs, U-part wigs, sew-ins, and all manner of weaves are doing it for style. For example, most of the women on YT doing wig and weave tutorials don't even have a job. They are wearing those styles because they want to, but it takes away from the world recognizing the beauty of our hair when we have someone else's hair. *It also takes credibility from the "we want our own hair space" argument when we are wearing hair from another culture.* Us wearing wigs and weaves constantly does a lot more damage to the natural hair movement than some random white woman being featured on CurlyNikki.com.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 8, 2014)

KammyGirl said:


> Oh, I understand what you're saying now. But the way we look I think is still dependent on the European beauty standard. Times change and styles change. This is the style now. The white women in ads and on television have long flowing locks w/ barrel curls and that is the standard. Even white women are getting weaves for this particular style because it is what is "in" now.
> 
> I am natural now. And I wear my hair out. People stare at me allll the time. Sometimes when people are talking to me in my office they are looking at my hair instead of at my face. If I had a different mindset I would probably go out and get the latest hairstyle too - which just so happens to be the long flowing weave.
> 
> Anyway, I think we've gone just a tad off topic.



 Yes, I'm way off. I'm about to log off for a minute and let it rest...


----------



## veesweets (Jul 8, 2014)

felic1 said:


> I read this morning that the Ku Klux Klan is planning to demonstrate at The Charles Wright Museum of African American History. The Klan is demanding that white history be included at the African American Museum. This museum is here in Detroit, Michigan. The Klan is demanding inclusion. Now, we have not equated last weeks nonsense with the Ku Klux Klan but to have this historically murderous organization show up to demand justice is terrible. Perhaps they need to start a controversy. There is a problem associated with Black people having special groups and areas of cohesiveness in this country. Thoughts?



That must be a joke right?  It is such a terrific museum!! 
Their history is included all right, just not the history THEY want people to know and its not all about them for once


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 8, 2014)

Solitude said:


> Yes, I'm way off. I'm about to log off for a minute and let it rest...



I believe I need a break from this topic as well. Its very emotional for me and spiritually draining ^_^ 

I think I will also log off and when I come back avoid the thread all together. I'm too sensitive for this man! Lol


----------



## felic1 (Jul 8, 2014)

There was a great migration in the last century. This was because our people were not safe and desired work opportunities. Many of our great grandparents left the south and moved north. They received enough acceptance to find employment, housing and an ability to care for our families. We are working with each other to discuss and celebrate our acceptance of our hair and other items of interest. We have had a great migration into worlds of beauty and they wish to financially benefit from it.


----------



## Chanteuse (Jul 8, 2014)

People are deliberately sowing seeds of confusion in order to shift our focus from what this debate is really about.  This is not about biracial women with silky hair.  This is not about black women who wear weaves.  This is about black women celebrating themselves and people outside of that group having a problem with it.  Period.  Do not fall for the diversionary tactics.


----------



## Subscribe (Jul 8, 2014)

1 more time





Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> The Chinese who practically have the weave market on lock would say they appreciate it greatly.  As for the Indian women
> 
> who have their hair stolen, I'm sure they dont appreciate it. But the Indian men who are the ones selling it to the Chinese are getting the benefit of that money too.
> 
> ...


----------



## DoDo (Jul 8, 2014)

Regarding your comments about "they don't go through that," that is not true. 

*Bold faced lie. We go through a specific type of racism.*

Lorraine Massey was forced to straighten her curly hair at a salon that she worked at, and instead she quit.

*So she would not look too ethnic (read "partially black")*

There are other stories in the Curly Girl Handbook of white women with curly hair were told to straighten their hair for job interviews or told that curly hair is not professional.

*Straightening with a blow dryer for fifteen minutes every morning can not be equated with a relaxer which is what many of us need to achieve this poker straight look that wavy haired women can't achieve by simply brushing their hair. *

It's no coincidence that a lot of WW start out with curly hair in Hollywood and slowly move to the ideal straight, blonde hair. 

*Again that is another facet of racism that we suffer even more of as black women. The white actress is told to straighten her hair and dye it blonde. We are told we are not right for a part unless it is about a slave or a maid.
*

Black women have been wearing natural hair to work.

*While weathering negativity, criticism and hurtful comments the entire time.* 

Wearing a weave is a choice. 

*It is a coerced choice. It is easier to wear weave than to process or straighten your hair when you have a particularly kinky texture. You just mentioned white women who have to straighten yet, you don't recognize this problem among your own people?*

The people that are wearing weaves due to discrimination at work are few and far between.

*This is opinion and not fact. I take it you haven't been to too many offices where black women work?*

Most of these women buying $300 wigs, U-part wigs, sew-ins, and all manner of weaves are doing it for style.

*So, hundreds of years of straightening our hair with items ranging from homemade lye to a hot knife to irons that are for clothes does not find a logical conclusion in just slapping fake straight hair onto our heads? For many of us a flat iron job only loosens our curl pattern unless we crank it up to anywhere from 400 to 450 degrees. Even then, we still have to use a fine tooth comb to chase the iron and must do all this after blow drying our hair as straight as we possibly can. Other races do not need to invest that much time just to straighten their hair, something which you have made clear other races are encouraged to do. So wearing wigs and weave isn't the logical solution to that societal demand on kinkier textures? * 

For example, most of the women on YT doing wig and weave tutorials don't even have a job.

*How do you even know they don't have a job?*  *This is an assumption, yes? Based on the fact it is black women advertising weave on Youtube? I am not even going to touch that* .

They are wearing those styles because they want to,

*We are conditioned ever since childhood to want certain things. If not, going natural wouldn't be a journey it would just be the cessation of applying a relaxer. *

but it takes away from the world recognizing the beauty of our hair when we have someone else's hair.

*If we have never learned to care for our hair the natural desire will be to hide it.*

It also takes credibility from the "we want our own hair space" argument when we are wearing hair from another culture.

*The people who are making the "we want our own hair space" argument are predominantly wearing their own hair. You know they had to go on a journey to healthier hair practices, let go of their discomfort with their hair, learn to care for it. You know, you have heard of it, THE NATURAL HAIR MOVEMENT. The movement that is encouraging us to move away from wigs/weaves etc.*

Us wearing wigs and weaves constantly does a lot more damage to the natural hair movement than some random white woman being featured on CurlyNikki.com.

*The natural hair movement is predominantly about being able to wear your hair natural, as in without relaxer, without wigs and weaves, without straightening poker straight.*

*However, we still have the option to relax responsibly*

_Because of our reality_

*Wear wigs and weaves responsibly*

_because of our reality_

*and straighten poker straight responsibly*

_because of our reality._

*We still cant show up to work in many cases with a wet afro or celie braids.

While our counterparts in most cases can fly out of the shower with their hair sopping wet and head to work

No product, no shingling, no detangling, no blow drying required. That is an option for others, not us, not at this point. 

That is why we are having this conversation.

Besides, I still say that if Felicity had been more respectful and less glib this whole backlash would have never happened.*


----------



## krikit96 (Jul 8, 2014)

Y'all talmbout where the hair comes from... please look at this quick clip, it's not that long but it shows enough of what's going on, these poor people offer their hair to the gods, at the temple, and get nothing in return... And the Asians come in and buy it up and sell it... this hair is disgusting, how they process it... for the black people to purchase, and then they treat us so badly in their stores and talk about us. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10203096962136457&id=1578399079


----------



## Healthb4Length (Jul 8, 2014)

DoDo said:


> Regarding your comments about "they don't go through that," that is not true.  Bold faced lie. We go through a specific type of racism.  Lorraine Massey was forced to straighten her curly hair at a salon that she worked at, and instead she quit.  So she would not look too ethnic (read "partially black")  There are other stories in the Curly Girl Handbook of white women with curly hair were told to straighten their hair for job interviews or told that curly hair is not professional.  Straightening with a blow dryer for fifteen minutes every morning can not be equated with a relaxer which is what many of us need to achieve this poker straight look that wavy haired women can't achieve by simply brushing their hair.   It's no coincidence that a lot of WW start out with curly hair in Hollywood and slowly move to the ideal straight, blonde hair.  Again that is another facet of racism that we suffer even more of as black women. The white actress is told to straighten her hair and dye it blonde. We are told we are not right for a part unless it is about a slave or a maid.   Black women have been wearing natural hair to work.  While weathering negativity, criticism and hurtful comments the entire time.  Wearing a weave is a choice.  It is a coerced choice. It is easier to wear weave than to process or straighten your hair when you have a particularly kinky texture. You just mentioned white women who have to straighten yet, you don't recognize this problem among your own people?  The people that are wearing weaves due to discrimination at work are few and far between.  This is opinion and not fact. I take it you haven't been to too many offices where black women work?  Most of these women buying $300 wigs, U-part wigs, sew-ins, and all manner of weaves are doing it for style.  So, hundreds of years of straightening our hair with items ranging from homemade lye to a hot knife to irons that are for clothes does not find a logical conclusion in just slapping fake straight hair onto our heads? For many of us a flat iron job only loosens our curl pattern unless we crank it up to anywhere form 400 to 450 degrees. Even then, we still have to use a fine tooth comb to chase the iron and must do all this after blow drying our hair as straight as we possibly can. Other races do not need to invest that much time just to straighten their hair,something which you have made clear other races are encouraged to do. So wearing wigs and weave isn't the logical solution to that societal demand on kinkier textures?   For example, most of the women on YT doing wig and weave tutorials don't even have a job.  How do you even know they don't have a job?  This is an assumption, yes? Based on the fact it is black women advertising weave on Youtube? I am not even going to touch that .  They are wearing those styles because they want to,  We are conditioned ever since childhood to want certain things. If not going natural wouldn't be a journey it would just be the cessation of applying a relaxer.   but it takes away from the world recognizing the beauty of our hair when we have someone else's hair.  If we have never learned to care for our hair the natural desire will be to hide it.  It also takes credibility from the "we want our own hair space" argument when we are wearing hair from another culture.  The people who are making the "we want our own hair space" argument are predominantly wearig their own hair. You know they had to go on a journey to healthier hair practices, let go of their discomfort with their hair, learn to care for it. You know, you have heard of it, THE NATURAL HAIR MOVEMENT. The movement that is encouraging us to move away from wigs/weaves etc.  Us wearing wigs and weaves constantly does a lot more damage to the natural hair movement than some random white woman being featured on CurlyNikki.com.  The natural hair movement is predominantly about being able to wear your hair natural, as in without relaxer, without wigs and weaves, without straightening poker straight.  However, we still have the option to relax responsibly  Because of our reality  Wear wigs and weaves responsibly  because of our reality  and straighten poker straight responsibly  because of our reality.  We still cant show up to work in many cases with a wet afro or celie braids.  While our counterparts in most cases can fly out of the shower with their hair sopping wet and head to work  No product, no shingling, no detangling, no blow drying required. That is an option for others, not us, not at this point.  That is why we are having this conversation.  Besides, I still say that if Felicity had been more respectful and less glib this whole backlash would have never happened.




Because Thank you is not enough.  The case has been stated, clear as day and yet some of 'us' will never get it.  You answered it better than I could have.


----------



## CaraWalker (Jul 8, 2014)

Chanteuse said:


> People are deliberately sowing seeds of confusion in order to shift our focus from what this debate is really about.  This is not about biracial women with silky hair.  This is not about black women who wear weaves.  This is about black women celebrating themselves and people outside of that group having a problem with it.  Period.  Do not fall for the diversionary tactics.



literally came back in this thread out of nowhere and oh, we're talking about weaves now? for what? what on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in china? folks love deflecting and derailing when there is no other way to force the conversation to bend to their perspective.


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## Saludable84 (Jul 8, 2014)

bunnycolvin said:


> literally came back in this thread out of nowhere and oh, we're talking about weaves now? for what? what on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in china? folks love deflecting and derailing when there is no other way to force the conversation to bend to their perspective.



You know there is always one. The argument was weak IMO. Many ethnicities wear wigs and weaves. Look at Jews. They live for years off wigs. Where they get that hair from? No one criticizing them. Dominicans offer extensions and weaves and their own people LOVE them. Those are just a couple of examples. It's a hair style; but it's a problem for us for some reason. 

ITA with you. And the others (can't remember, on my phone) that clearly argued the weave/wig thing.


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## cocosweet (Jul 9, 2014)

felic1 said:


> I read this morning that the Ku Klux Klan is planning to demonstrate at The Charles Wright Museum of African American History. The Klan is demanding that white history be included at the African American Museum. This museum is here in Detroit, Michigan. The Klan is demanding inclusion. Now, we have not equated last weeks nonsense with the Ku Klux Klan but to have this historically murderous organization show up to demand justice is terrible. Perhaps they need to start a controversy. There is a problem associated with Black people having special groups and areas of cohesiveness in this country. Thoughts?


I had to google this insanity. It is not real.

Jalopnik Detroit



*No, The Ku Klux Klan Is Not Coming To Detroit Tomorrow*

				226
2




*Aaron Foley*

Profile




Aaron FoleyFiled to: 	inside 8 mile 			Yesterday 2:39pm





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Quite  a few Detroiters are sharing a screengrab of a purported news story  that says the Ku Klux Klan is "planning to form a peaceful protest  towards the African American Museum on East Warren ave" on Wednesday.  No, they're not.
The screengrab uses a font that's pretty close to the one used for _Detroit News_  headlines, so it's easy for the uninitiated to make that mistake. It's a  little worrisome that so many people can't see through the rest of the  bull****.
There _is _an  "African American Museum" on East Warren Avenue — that would be the  Charles H. Wright Museum of African-American History. You should know  that it would be referred to as such in a serious news story.
Or you could just check out the link from "Nipsy's News" dot com — which has this little disclaimer at the top of its site:


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## Ari8 (Jul 9, 2014)

DDTexlaxed said:


> I didn't read the whole posts where the person was basically trying to make a controversy, but honestly, I thought natural community embraced all. *Guess I was wrong.*


 
Yup, you were.  Sorry.


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## JulietWhiskey (Jul 9, 2014)

Chanteuse said:


> People are deliberately sowing seeds of confusion in order to shift our focus from what this debate is really about. This is not about biracial women with silky hair. This is not about black women who wear weaves. This is about black women celebrating themselves and people outside of that group having a problem with it. Period. Do not fall for the diversionary tactics.


 

@Chanteuse

*THANK YOU!*

This is the *EXACT* reason that I refused to be drawn into a nonsensical debate about the term "New Black" when an earlier poster tried to chastize me for using it. I read her post, said 

, 

and kept it moving! 

I refused to respond.

You're not getting me caught up and derailed from the real issue: *THE NATURAL HAIR MOVEMENT IS CREATED FOR, BY AND ABOUT BLACK WOMEN TO ADDRESS AND COUNTERACT THE OPPRESSION PLACED UPON US FOR CENTURIES IN REGARDS TO OUR* *HAIR/BODIES/SEXUALITY/INTELLIGENCE, ETC.*

*Any thing else is tricknology and ain't nobody got time for that...*


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## PinkSunshine77 (Jul 9, 2014)

IDC in all honesty.


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## curlytwirly06 (Jul 9, 2014)

My natural sisters (guru) posted a video addressing curlynikki and had me cheering 

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QlYCcKcffc


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## CaraWalker (Jul 9, 2014)

http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-07-09...new-hairstyle-and-the-politics-of-black-hair/



> Regardless of their intent, People drew upon a long legacy of white beauty standards deeming locs (and other forms of Black women’s natural hair) inelegant, unkempt, unprofessional, and otherwise concerning. As far back as the early 1800s, Black women in the United States were legally mandated to cover and obscure their natural hair so as not to threaten “social stability.”
> 
> Even as the natural hair movement gains steam, Black women are regularly denied employment, passed over for promotions, and met with hostility in the workplace when we choose to wear our hair as it grows out of our heads. While it may seem inconsequential what a beauty magazine thinks of Ciara’s potential wedding hairstyle, for everyday Black women this judgment matters. When this viewpoint is held by hiring managers, it can be the difference between a job and continued economic instability; that’s quite literally life-changing.


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## DoDo (Jul 9, 2014)

bunnycolvin said:


> http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-07-09...new-hairstyle-and-the-politics-of-black-hair/



But some of us want to say the *#struggle* is over and let us sing kumbaya .

The reasons just keep stacking up as to why they can miss me with that .


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## 1QTPie (Jul 9, 2014)

^^^ Passive  racism.  They are EXPERTS at that subtle b.s.   Another reason they need to stay out of OUR stuff.  Create your own movement.


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## Serenity_Peace (Jul 10, 2014)

JulietWhiskey said:


> @Chanteuse
> 
> You're not getting me caught up and derailed from the real issue: *THE NATURAL HAIR MOVEMENT IS CREATED FOR, BY AND ABOUT BLACK WOMEN TO ADDRESS AND COUNTERACT THE OPPRESSION PLACED UPON US FOR CENTURIES IN REGARDS TO OUR* *HAIR/BODIES/SEXUALITY/INTELLIGENCE, ETC.*
> 
> *Any thing else is tricknology and I ain't nobody got time for that...*



JulietWhiskey

You, my dear...YOU ARE SIMPLY AMAZING!!!

Sheer brilliance!


----------



## Serenity_Peace (Jul 10, 2014)

curlytwirly06 said:


> My natural sisters (guru) posted a video addressing curlynikki and had me cheering
> 
> http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QlYCcKcffc



And my girl Kinksgalore totally and seriously breaks it down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhgPf_cHrlg


----------



## JulietWhiskey (Jul 10, 2014)

Serenity_Peace said:


> @JulietWhiskey
> 
> You, my dear...YOU ARE SIMPLY AMAZING!!!
> 
> Sheer brilliance!


 

Awww, thank you, Serenity_Peace!

I *LOVE *so many of your posts: you bring the *KNOWLEDGE!*

I feel like this topic has brought so many of us together in cohesion and unity, even those of us that usually express differing opinions on various topics!

*Kudos, ladies!  And keep 'em coming!*



*!*


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## angelhairtype4 (Jul 10, 2014)

Deleting. 
Not giving what's her face any attention.


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## Dellas (Jul 10, 2014)

I am late to this discussion. 

I will say from a historical standpoint whites don't see us as having to have something of our own. Or deserving it. Heck even blacks don't (esp. when there is a financial incentive). 

I think I told this story before. I was at a university where I was the ONLY black in a class most time. The Asian would study together and the whites would pretend to be studying on their own then I would find out later they organically got together??? Anywho finally an African came and an AA guy came. We finally was able to form a study group. Then a white girl came over to study with us. I asked why. She said because Asians have their own culture and language and she would feel ODD. It was like we were suppose to step aside and make accommodations for help AND THEY DID.

I think we are seen as Americans FIRST and we have no culture .....If we did have something of our own it would be infiltrated for money or spite.  Seeing what the minorities are doing is a past time in America. So, I always feel our ideas and originality never belong to us.


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## Dellas (Jul 10, 2014)

Why are we the ONLY culture that have to explain our love for OUR. 
Why do respect for our spaces and bodies have to explained or demanded?


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## MicheePrings (Jul 10, 2014)

http://youtu.be/lHS6y8RkTN8

This video is a black man explaining his take on this issue. Thought I'd  share because it refreshing to see a black man willing to take a stand beside us women.

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Brwnbeauti (Jul 10, 2014)

He said that... "They been thieving since we been here!"


----------



## cami88 (Jul 11, 2014)

Everything he said was the truth. I'm impressed...he knows a lot about natural hair. My SO would have no idea what a wash and go is.

Sent from my galaxy s4 using LHCF


----------



## Gin&Tonic (Jul 11, 2014)

Solitude said:


> You can't live in a culture and want to be included in traditionally "white" arenas, but not want them to be included in any of ours. It doesn't work like that. I am not concerned about whites "taking over" the natural hair movement because no one can come and "take over" the hair on my head.  Unless a WW is going to somehow figure out a way to grow Type 4 kinky/curly hair, then I don't have much to worry about. As deep as hair may be at times, it's still aesthetic. When you log off, most people in the world aren't concerned about the natural hair movement, like at all.  I also get annoyed with people acting like we need a "natural hair movement" to wear our hair. Black women have always worn natural hair, braids, twists, etc. The only difference now is that there are more of us and new styles. The "movement" could come and go and you can still wear your hair how you want to, natural or otherwise.  To use this as an example of when integration goes wrong is kind of extreme. We're talking about hair here. Black women have been emulating the styles of other cultures to the point of literally wearing other women's hair, but I guess we don't want to talk about that, right?



Solitude you can't be serious. In case you don't know ,integration has not worked. We are actually more segregated than ever. Whites do not open everything up to us, to think otherwise is naive, delusional and silly.


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 11, 2014)

MicheePrings said:


> http://youtu.be/lHS6y8RkTN8
> 
> This video is a black man explaining his take on this issue. Thought I'd  share because it refreshing to see a black man willing to take a stand beside us women.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using LHCF



That was refreshing and uplifting to see.thank you for sharing


----------



## Serenity_Peace (Jul 11, 2014)

Asians have an entirely separate and distinct community that focuses on their self-hatred issues related to standards of beauty. 

For example, my Korean friend tells me how eye reconstructive surgery is a multi-billion dollar industry in East Asia. The prevalent anime character that we see everywhere with the huge eyes and eyelashes is incredibly popular there. However, she tells me that many East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc.) deal with these issues together as a community; they are uniquely their own and little to do with white people other than the fact that European standards of beauty were imposed on Asian cultures for centuries.

Many of us have said that skin lightening or whitening is huge in South Asian cultures like India Sri Lanka. In those cultures, there is an entirely separate industry that specifically caters to women of Asian descent. And many women in this are attempting to beat back European standards of beauty on their own. So I was talking just yesterday to one of my closest friends who is Sri Lankan about this issue (and she is much darker than I), she said that there are issues that are specifically unique to the experiences of the Sri Lankan, Indian and/or South Asian culture that white women will NEVER understand. We don't ask them to join in those conversations and they never bother us about ever joining them.

Why is it that blacks feel the need to always and consistently apologize or accommodate others? Why do we feel guilted into inviting others who do not share the same concerns or experiences as we do into our discussions or our movements?

All that most of us are saying is that there should be a separate and distinct platform that is devoted to discussions about kinky-curly-nappy hair that primarily affect women of color. 

It's just that simple.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 11, 2014)

Serenity_Peace said:


> Asians have an entirely separate and distinct community that focuses on their self-hatred issues related to standards of beauty.
> 
> For example, my Korean friend tells me how eye reconstructive surgery is a multi-billion dollar industry in East Asia. The prevalent anime character that we see everywhere with the huge eyes and eyelashes is incredibly popular there. However, she tells me that many East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc.) deal with these issues together as a community; they are uniquely their own and little to do with white people other than the fact that European standards of beauty were imposed on Asian cultures for centuries.
> 
> ...



It is EXACTLY that simple!
Thank you!


----------



## Stormy (Jul 11, 2014)

@MicheePrings thank you so much for posting that video! Nice to see a brotha who KNOWS what he's talking about and speaks the truth! 

Now...ole Sara Waterlily needs to see it!


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

Gin&Tonic said:


> @Solitude you can't be serious. In case you don't know ,integration has not worked. We are actually more segregated than ever. Whites do not open everything up to us, to think otherwise is naive, delusional and silly.



To say that "integration has not worked" is another broad and over-reaching statement. Integration has advanced blacks in some ways and set us back in other ways, yes. But, to completely deny the benefits that blacks have gained in an insult to the work of Dr. King, Thurgood Marshall, and many others. Further, you should talk to some older black people who lived pre-segregation and ask them if they would like to go back to being completely excluded from the places of business, schools, social clubs, etc., that *you* have the privilege of enjoying every day. While segregation does still exists, in part due to white flight and other cultural phenomenon, much of it is *self-segregation*, which is what you are pushing for with the hair "movement," correct? 

There is no need to call me delusional, silly, or any other name in an attempt to silence my opinion. I am none of the sort and nothing in my posts implicates that I am. 

Note: I am not comparing the integration of whites into the "natural hair movement" to the social integration of blacks and whites in America. I am responding only to your broad and flawed statement that "integration did not work" in terms of blacks and the Civil Rights Movement.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

MicheePrings said:


> http://youtu.be/lHS6y8RkTN8
> 
> This video is a black man explaining his take on this issue. Thought I'd  share because it refreshing to see a black man willing to take a stand beside us women.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using LHCF



It is very funny to me that I see this man's video being posted in so-called support of the black natural hair movement. After I saw who it was, I did not watch because he is one of the man black males on YouTube that regularly bashes black women. 

He knows a lot about us, and our hair, because he is obsessed with what "we" are doing wrong while he rarely makes any videos about black men, even though he is one. I won't help him gain clicks by posting his most offensive videos, but you can simply browse his channel and see for yourself.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

bunnycolvin said:


> literally came back in this thread out of nowhere and oh, we're talking about weaves now? for what? what on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in china? folks love deflecting and derailing when there is no other way to force the conversation to bend to their perspective.



If you can't understand what black women's obsession with weave has to do with this debate, then I don't know what to tell you. I clearly and specifically outlined why it matters. I don't know who "their" is supposed to be. I'm a black woman just like you, but I guess we are all supposed to subscribe to groupthink and have only one perspective, right? 



cocosweet said:


> I had to google this insanity. It is not real.



Just like a lot of the stuff that is being posted is not real, but people don't want to take 5 seconds and look for truth in the midst of an emotionally-charged conversation.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

DoDo said:


> Regarding your comments about "they don't go through that," that is not true.
> 
> *Bold faced lie. We go through a specific type of racism.*
> 
> ...



My responses to your response are in red.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

Part II. My response was too long for one post. 



DoDo said:


> *
> 
> *
> 
> ...





krikit96 said:


> Y'all talmbout where the hair comes from...   please look at this quick clip, it's not that long but it shows enough   of what's going on, these poor people offer their hair to the gods, at   the temple, and get nothing in return... And the Asians come in and buy   it up and sell it... this hair is disgusting, how they process it...  for  the black people to purchase, and then they treat us so badly in  their  stores and talk about us.
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10203096962136457&id=1578399079



*They don't want to be informed about that. If  you  talk about the problem with weave and how it affects the "natural hair  movement," then you're derailing. *


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

Saludable84 said:


> You know there is always one. The argument was weak IMO. Many ethnicities wear wigs and weaves. Look at Jews. They live for years off wigs. Where they get that hair from? No one criticizing them. Dominicans offer extensions and weaves and their own people LOVE them. Those are just a couple of examples. It's a hair style; but it's a problem for us for some reason.
> 
> ITA with you. And the others (can't remember, on my phone) that clearly argued the weave/wig thing.



IDK what you are talking about because I have the same criticism for all people who _depend on_ weaves. The Dominicans that I know are blacks and none of the Jews that I know wear weaves, so I can't speak to their experience. The Jewish people that I know tend to keep their curly hair short so as not to have to deal with it too much. 

In America at least, we (black women) are the major consumers of weaves. There are certain markets like L.A. where I'm sure more WW wear weaves, but it is a widespread problem in our community nationwide. 



Honey Bee said:


> Lawd, this is not about Pharrell and/ or 'new Blacks'. This is about ww encroaching on our ish _as usual._
> 
> Stay focused.



@Honey Bee please see the post below of the same poster bringing the same offensive term back up. I hope you will direct her to stay on topic, like you did to me. 





JulietWhiskey said:


> @Chanteuse
> 
> *THANK YOU!*
> 
> ...




Yes, because it is okay to use derogatory terms to insult other blacks in the name of the movement that you say is intended to uphold other blacks. Right....

We don't want to be oppressed, but it's okay to try to suppress the opinions of blacks with a different opinion than you. The question was POSED about WW and the natural hair movement. It wouldn't be much of a discussion if everyone had the same opinion. 



Starbucks said:


> Hi,
> 
> *I think you are referring to hairstyles vs a movement toward self  acceptance. * To you, it may just be learning to have healthy hair. And  that's ok. But to other people, it's more than that, and they have a  right not to want it appropriated.
> 
> ...



I appreciate how eloquently you stated your opinion. 

One thing that I am noticing is that a lot of the people opposing me are newer to LHCF. You guys probably do not remember that this was first a _*HEALTHY HAIR MOVEMENT*_. I do not recall a lot of talk about natural hair movement back in 2008. In fact, some of the great natural hair sheroes were still relaxed and people frequently posted hair tips from majority-white hair sites. The older people remember, but are acting brand new. 

A healthy hair journey is all I ever signed up for . Good luck to y'all with the rest of it.


----------



## Ogoma (Jul 12, 2014)

Didn't even bother reading any of it. Hope you are getting paid. Hope you are not wasting your time for free.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

Ogoma said:


> Didn't even bother reading any of it. Hope you are getting paid. Hope you are not wasting your time for free.



So, who is derailing now? How am I wasting my time when we are on the same website doing the same thing? You have only been around here fore 3 years and your post count is a lot higher than mine.


----------



## LdyKamz (Jul 12, 2014)

You said you don't know how the women in these threads wear their hair then go on to say plenty of them are weave wearers? That's news to me.

Secondly, what does black women wearing weaves have to do with wanting a space for black women and their hair? I'm not understanding this. Because some black women wear weave it's ok for everyone to join? One more thing. Since you think it is ok for white women to be a part of the movement and they are indeed  natural, can you tell me natural as opposed to what?


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

KammyGirl said:


> You said you don't know how the women in these threads wear their hair then go on to say plenty of them are weave wearers? That's news to me.
> 
> Secondly, what does black women wearing weaves have to do with wanting a space for black women and their hair? I'm not understanding this. Because some black women wear weave it's ok for everyone to join? One more thing. Since you think it is ok for white women to be a part of the movement and they are indeed  natural, can you tell me natural as opposed to what?



I know that some of them wear wigs and weaves because I have been around here since 2008. I don't know how every person wears their hair, obviously. I'm not sure why that's hard to understand . 

Any person who does chemically NOT alter his or her natural hair is natural. Simple. CurlyNikki has a little space on the internet where she has chosen to include them. You can start your own space and you can choose not to. Also simple. 

I already explained the weave reference. You can go back and reread my posts if you are actually interested.


----------



## LdyKamz (Jul 12, 2014)

Solitude said:


> IDK what you are talking about because I have the same criticism for all people who _depend on_ weaves. The Dominicans that I know are blacks and none of the Jews that I know wear weaves, so I can't speak to their experience. The Jewish people that I know tend to keep their curly hair short so as not to have to deal with it too much.
> 
> .


 
She said Jewish women wear wigs not weaves. And the Jewish women you know must not be married or religious. Because once they are married that wig goes on and doesn't come off ever in public.


----------



## Ogoma (Jul 12, 2014)

Since keeping your post count low is important to you , you shouldn't waste it on useless dribble. Logic and common sense are not your strong suits. After reading your comments earlier, I can't be bothered to read the new ones. I am not going to get my brain cells back.

Off to party. Have a good Friday night.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

KammyGirl said:


> She said Jewish women wear wigs not weaves. And the Jewish women you know must not be married or religious. Because once they are married that wig goes on and doesn't come off ever in public.



Actually, the Jewish women that I know are very religious. One Jewish woman in particular that I know celebrates every Jewish holiday. She has very curly hair, is married with kids, and wears her hair short. I am not familiar enough with Jewish customs to know whether this is common or not common. 

I live in a part of town with many Orthodox Jews and none that I can see wear wigs, but I'm sure it's possible.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

Ogoma said:


> Since keeping your post count low is important to you , you shouldn't waste it on useless dribble. *Logic and common sense are not your strong suits. *After reading your comments earlier, I can't be bothered to read the new ones. I am not going to get my brain cells back.
> 
> Off to party. Have a good Friday night.



I'm not sure why you continuously feel the need to try to offend and insult me, but I can only presume it is a further symptom of your insecurity with your hair, and with yourself. Good night.


----------



## LdyKamz (Jul 12, 2014)

Since my join date is after 2008 I best keep my mouth shut and not oppose the "veteran" 

Edit: I must say your attitude is very different now. Before, you were just posting your differing opinion and now there's shade being thrown about join dates and weave wearers. Not sure why. But oh well.


----------



## Solitude (Jul 12, 2014)

KammyGirl said:


> Since my join date is after 2008 I best keep my mouth shut and not oppose the "veteran"
> 
> Edit: I must say your attitude is very different now. Before, you were just posting your differing opinion and now there's shade being thrown about join dates and weave wearers. Not sure why. But oh well.



You can do as you feel. The tone of my post in this and any other thread has not changed. Others feel the same as I do, but they will not speak out for fear of being e-bullied. My reference to the old days was to illustrate the point that the division in race and hair texture did not exist *when I joined. *Even when there were debates about relaxed v. natural, at the end of the day the focus was on healthy hair, and it was generally referred to as a "healthy hair movement" not a "natural hair movement." 

I find it interesting that you mentioned shade, but did not reference the poster that said I lack logic and common sense. That's LHCF for ya .


----------



## LdyKamz (Jul 12, 2014)

Solitude said:


> You can do as you feel. *The tone of my post in this and any other thread has not changed*. Others feel the same as I do, but they will not speak out for fear of being e-bullied*. *My reference to the old days was to illustrate the point that the division in race and hair texture did not exist when I joined. Even when there were debates about relaxed v. natural, at the end of the day the focus was on healthy hair, and it was generally referred to as a "healthy hair movement" not a "natural hair movement."
> 
> I find it interesting that you mentioned shade, but did not reference the poster that said I lack logic and common sense. *That's LHCF for ya* .


 
No? Ok then.


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

Okay. I'm just throwing this out there. No one maim me in their head. Real question that i hope was not posed already. Why are we concerned with the white women specifically and their presence or absence from "the m ovement"? I was under the impression that natural hair was a very large umbrella under which all types if hair were inckudes, not indicative of race specifically: healthy unaltered hair which a woman can be proud of whether so fine and poker straight it can't hold a curl or so coarse and kinky that it looks like shoulder length when it's really waist length. I also felt that natural hair was about accepting your hair and it's characteristics regardless of what the popular opinion may be?
Again, not preaching, real question, genuinely confused, didn't read every post, don't maim me, please.


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

Divine. said:


> I kind of agree. Why can't we just have something of our own? The second we develop something great in our community, it doesn't take very long before it's no longer ours. Our own culture isn't even respected. Other people always get credit for the things we create. And we willing let it happen.
> 
> Non-blacks have no problem excluding us, so why shouldn't we be exclusive as well? The whole natural movement in the grand scheme of things isn't such a big deal. But it just goes to show how inclusive we are as a race. We go out our way to accept everyone when no one bats an eye to accept us.



Wow, i never thought of it like that. You have a real point!


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

SlimPickinz said:


> Y'all sure do love white people around here.



I'm saying. Swear it's either "white women do it too" or "that's for white people" or the comical "I've noticed that white people..." Because it's very possible to observe 10-20 individuals and say that their behavior sets the pace for the whole race right?

But yea, again my q is sincere.


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.



Wow. I had no idea that this has transpired. Makes me think


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

frogkisses said:


> I'm sorry but white people have BEEN having a hair movement since they were born. 90% of main characters on TV represent white hair, y'all got hundreds of white actors winning every award from the oscars to BET and yet we (black people) only have 12 academy award winners and 13 oscar winners. White people occupy the most CEO positions and are the most viewed in a good light and have representation literally EVERYWHERE. You can miss me when you want to include white people the small spaces where black people can talk safely and not have to deal with racism amongst other things.
> 
> White people were the ones telling us our hair was nappy, out of control, and ghetto!
> 
> I don't understand those that feel sympathy, y'all know white people will steal black culture but then turn around and use their white privilege the MOMENT it helps them out, even if that means stepping on our backs.



Wow! You're so right. I didn't even think that they were the whole reason that hair is such a huge thing in the black community. They gave is the word nappy and it's negative connotation. Wow.


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

tinycoils said:


> You can keep you individuality and not be exclusive.  I don't believe we need to be inclusive to our detriment, just find a nice balance. I have been on the LHC forum recently and surprisingly they discuss a lot of the same things we discuss here.
> 
> Two wrongs don't make a right and we should not let someone else's bad behavior influence how we act.



Such as...? Are you referencing the non hair topics? Or maybe things regarding, length, hair texture (strand size), moisure, protein?


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

bhndbrwneyes said:


> ^^this
> 
> I thought I was the only one. I hate going on instagram and searching #naturalhair and a white girl who just got out the shower with somewhat wavy hair is taking a selfie. Of course her hair is natural. Even if she were to have straightened her hair it would be considered natural. But the "natural hair community" has a different meaning to me. To me it means products, styles, tools, and advice for ethnic hair types, a population that is (historically) known to chemically adjust the structure of the hair shaft via relaxers. It is a community of pride and support. Now, I know some white women get perms to make their hair curly...If they spent 20 years on the creamy crack and are just now breaking free and taking pride in their "natural" hair then good for them. But don't taint those hashtags!



this is completely unrelated but I just wanted to tell you that you are absolutely gorgeous!!


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> When she can predict what horrifying event occurs when walking down the boardwalk on a date with your fly press and curl blowing in the wind, 10 blocks away from your automobile when you feel it -- a single fat juicy raindrop. What happens next?
> 
> If she answers , maybe we should welcome her.
> 
> If she thinks you just smooth back it into a magic bun, she should K.I.M.



What's K.I.M.?


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

GoldenRule said:


> If she know what the phrase, "Hold your ear, baby..." refers to maybe we should welcome her.
> 
> If the three letters R I O make her hair curl back into the scalp to protect itself, she'll be a great fit I think!
> 
> Lastly, the clack clack clack of the curling iron hot off the stove. If she can correctly identify that sound in conjunction with the accompanying sizzle of grease DING DING DING! We have a new member of the natural hair community!!



I got the other two but what's the R i o thing?


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

wait the girl who started the controversy was water lily!?! She seemed so amicable. I liked watching her. this makes me so upset.


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

Honey Bee said:


> Subscribe, It's a reference to a spiritual, iirc. God would be the one saying it, not slave masters and such.



Whew had me worried for a split second. I caught the reference the first time i read it though!


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

MystiqueBabe said:


> I don't really see a problem with it as long as they respect us. Aren't there even some latina woman in the natural community? Some white woman have kids with hair similar to ours and I don't see anything wrong with them seeking advice or whatever, again as long as they are respectful.
> 
> I have just always found it funny that every time there is an event or cause for black or non-white races, white people ALWAYS seem to find their way in there or give there 2 cent. It almost never fails.



Non black latinas?


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

Daernyris said:


> ^^^@ the bolded
> That's that coon mentality, quick to defend the massa/misses and throw ya own under a bus for trinkets. We got too many wanting to look like "the good blacks" and not one of those other kinda blacks.
> 
> ETA: Black folks will give their eyeteeth for some acceptance from other groups that don't care anything for their advancement



Damn. This was harsh. It's true though. I appreciate how blunt you made that.


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 12, 2014)

girlonfire said:


> What's K.I.M.?



Keep it moving


----------



## girlonfire (Jul 12, 2014)

Solitude said:


> Calling each other "New Blacks" and coons and whatever other names does not help the issue. There are blacks who have differing opinions on issues that are not sellouts, coons, racs, new blacks, or whatever else.
> 
> Why is it that black people are the only ones that are not allowed to have individual viewpoints? We don't all have to think alike about an issue, geesh.
> 
> ...



what exactly is Pharrell doing for the black community? if you are mentioning Ferrell specifically do you mean his YouTube channel?


----------



## Honey Bee (Jul 12, 2014)

Solitude, I also asked you to stay focused. I'll repeat my request. You're filling what was supposed to be an empowering thread with some tit-for-tat nonsense. Let it go or take it to pm. #nothereforit


----------



## Froreal3 (Jul 12, 2014)

Solitude said:


> I know that some of them wear wigs and weaves because I have been around here since 2008. I don't know how every person wears their hair, obviously. I'm not sure why that's hard to understand .
> 
> *Any person who does chemically NOT alter his or her natural hair is natural.* Simple. CurlyNikki has a little space on the internet where she has chosen to include them. You can start your own space and you can choose not to. Also simple.
> 
> I already explained the weave reference. You can go back and reread my posts if you are actually interested.




Solitude, but can you agree that "natural" means something different for black women? For us it is related to texture (although some people try to change it up to mean color too...personally I've never subscribed to that) and has been that way for a very long time. 

I am thinking you are suggesting that because the general word "natural" encompasses different meanings for different groups (for us it means no perm and for others it typically means no color), we should all stand together under the general term regardless of the context. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Also going or being "natural" has been in existence for as long as black people have been chemically straightening their hair. Therefore regardless of when this "healthy hair movement"  on these forums began, we had always referred to "natural" in this context.


----------



## charmtreese (Jul 12, 2014)

Solitude said:


> You can do as you feel. The tone of my post in this and any other thread has not changed. Others feel the same as I do, but they will not speak out for fear of being e-bullied. My reference to the old days was to illustrate the point that the division in race and hair texture did not exist when I joined. Even when there were debates about relaxed v. natural, at the end of the day the focus was on healthy hair, and it was generally referred to as a "healthy hair movement" not a "natural hair movement."  I find it interesting that you mentioned shade, but did not reference the poster that said I lack logic and common sense. That's LHCF for ya .



I joined a year before you, and race division is nothing new here.  If race division was not a concern this forum would never have been created.  

Personally, I would prefer if white women were not apart of the"Natural hair Movement".  I don't care how curly their hair is or how frizzy it can become in the rain, their Journey is not ours and ours is not theirs.  All throughout school my hair and I were different, together we stood out and I was questioned, teased and made to feel ugly and less than.  I know my story is not the story of every black girl, but as a collective our stories are more similar then not, and as a collective our hair is more similar.  

The "Natural Hair Movement" is a movement to showcase the black women's  pride, beauty, and diversity in their hair.  It should not be infiltrated by others just because they discovered a way to combat triangle hair or frizz.  

In a sea of white girls with hair types ranging from 1-3b, I was the only one with 4b hair and not one of them could relate to my hair struggles. I remember this particular day like it was yesterday..... all the girls lined up to have their hair tidied up and the teacher with her tiny little blue comb looked right at me and then took the next girl.


----------



## topnotch1010 (Jul 12, 2014)

charmtreese said:


> Personally, I would prefer if white women were not apart of the"Natural hair Movement".  I don't care how curly their hair is or how frizzy it can become in the rain, their Journey is not ours and ours is not theirs.  All throughout school my hair and I were different, together we stood out and I was questioned, teased and made to feel ugly and less than.  I know my story is not the story of every black girl, but as a collective our stories are more similar then not, and as a collective our hair is more similar.
> 
> The "Natural Hair Movement" is a movement to showcase the black women's  pride, beauty, and diversity in their hair.  It should not be infiltrated by others just because they discovered a way to combat triangle hair or frizz.
> 
> In a sea of white girls with hair types ranging from 1-3b, I was the only one with 4b hair and not one of them could relate to my hair struggles. I remember this particular day like it was yesterday..... all the girls lined up to have their hair tidied up and the teacher with her tiny little blue comb looked right at me and then took the next girl.



I can't be bothered to read all of the other posts, but this is the long and short of it. Their problems are not ours and our problems are not theirs. Can we just have something of our own for once?! Is that really too much to ask for?!


----------



## SuchaLady (Jul 12, 2014)

Look what I found on Instagram y'all


----------



## Saludable84 (Jul 12, 2014)

SuchaLady said:


> Look what I found on Instagram y'all



 

Black is the new cool!


----------



## Honey Bee (Jul 12, 2014)

SuchaLady said:


> Look what I found on Instagram y'all


Her hair, though...


----------



## CaraWalker (Jul 12, 2014)

Ogoma said:


> Didn't even bother reading any of it. Hope you are getting paid. Hope you are not wasting your time for free.



pretty sure aint nobody wasting their time reading that boolsheet so that was a lot of wasted keystrokes  scrolled right on by like


----------



## CaraWalker (Jul 12, 2014)

KammyGirl said:


> She said Jewish women wear wigs not weaves. And the Jewish women you know must not be married or religious. Because once they are married that wig goes on and doesn't come off ever in public.



i didnt know that! i was wondering why jewish women wore wigs! this girl was younger than me and had a wig on, im like, does she have cancer or something? whats going on there? so thats a thing? huh. learn something new everyday.

i wish i cared about my post count. please conjoin my double posts


----------



## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 12, 2014)

bunnycolvin said:


> i didnt know that! i was wondering why jewish women wore wigs! this girl was younger than me and had a wig on, im like, does she have cancer or something? whats going on there? so thats a thing? huh. learn something new everyday.
> 
> i wish i cared about my post count. please conjoin my double posts



Most of the Jewish married women I know just cover their hair but a love of them wear wigs as an alternative


----------



## GoldenRule (Jul 12, 2014)

girlonfire said:


> I got the other two but what's the R i o thing?



RIO was a "relaxer alternative" introduced in the early 90s. It was touted by Debbie Allen. SCORES of women bought it and it basically left some women permanently bald. I purchased it but by the time I scraped the money together, they'd been outed and I never received the product (or the money) THANK GOD!!


----------



## LadyRaider (Jul 12, 2014)

charmtreese said:


> In a sea of white girls with hair types ranging from 1-3b, I was the only one with 4b hair and not one of them could relate to my hair struggles. I remember this particular day like it was yesterday..... all the girls lined up to have their hair tidied up and the teacher with her tiny little blue comb looked right at me and then took the next girl.



Hah. My 4th grade picture is a mess. I must have decided to take my hair down from the two braids I wore through high school (roll eyes) and the teacher thinking she'd be helpful, tried to rebraid it. And that on top of the photographer telling me to "look sexy" made that picture just a mess. I wish I had it to post it.


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## charmtreese (Jul 12, 2014)

LadyRaider said:


> Hah. My 4th grade picture is a mess. I must have decided to take my hair down from the two braids I wore through high school (roll eyes) and the teacher thinking she'd be helpful, tried to rebraid it. And that on top of the photographer telling me to "look sexy" made that picture just a mess. I wish I had it to post it.



Lol...I'm mad that the photographer told you to look sexy...lol!


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## Femmefatal1981 (Jul 12, 2014)

E-bullied? What ever happened to being able to disagree with people and move on.


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## luckiestdestiny (Jul 12, 2014)

Saludable84 said:


> Black is the new cool!


 No we're always cool just never credited.


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 12, 2014)

LadyRaider said:


> Hah. My 4th grade picture is a mess. I must have decided to take my hair down from the two braids I wore through high school (roll eyes) and the teacher thinking she'd be helpful, tried to rebraid it. And that on top of the photographer telling me to "look sexy" made that picture just a mess. I wish I had it to post it.



I won't even post pix from school prior to my relaxer days. My poor mother had no idea how to deal with my hair and in a sea of white kids I wad referred to as the grazing bush  those pix will never see the light of day as long as I have breath in me lol


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## Mingus (Jul 12, 2014)

...


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## curlytwirly06 (Jul 12, 2014)

Mingus said:


> Hello Everyone, Long time lurker, first time poster here.  This whole hullabaloo has actually brought me out of the woodwork to finally bite the bullet and subscribe.  So regarding the original question – how do I feel?  I feel frustrated and annoyed at the amount of disrespect being leveled at this community.  While any number of people can claim to have “natural” hair based on the hair that grows out of their heads, the “natural hair movement,” as it were, was started by and for black women for all the reasons that have already been stated numerous times throughout this thread.  I have no problem with exchanging ideas and/or products with other people.  However, people who are not part of this community, and who don’t share in the overall experiences/hardships of black women with regard to hair and general identity issues, calling themselves #teamnatural is extremely misplaced and disrespectful.  At this point for me, I’m starting to move past how I feel about it and am starting to move into what I plan on doing about it.  I can’t control what other people say about themselves.  I can’t stop a white woman from claiming some sort of “natural hair journey” for herself, even though that’s language that clearly originated from this community.  However,  we are currently at a moment of time in which this has become a line in the sand for me.  In my mind, willfully using language and attempting to appropriate an identity which was not created for you is a way of disregarding and disrespecting my unique experience as a black woman.  In effect, you’re telling me that me and my experiences don’t matter and are not deserving of respect.  Well, I’m not willing to allow myself to be disrespected in that or any other way.  So as far as I’m concerned, I plan on disregarding the opinions and/or the very existence of people who disregard me.  I’m not willing to give such people any of my time or energy whether that be online or in my day to day life.  I’m fully prepared to lose friends and/or acquaintances over this.  I’m done trying to educate people about why they should respect my experience, nay my very existence, as a black woman in this society.  If you’re not up to speed on the basics of human decency and respect at this point, then I don’t want you anywhere near me.  There seem to be a lot of white women who have been so wrapped up in their little privilege bubble that they really don’t have the basics down, which means that there are a lot of them who will simply not make it past my filter.  Unfortunately, there also seem to be more than a few black women and other woc who want to act as their apologists.  They won’t make it past my filter either.  Obviously people are entitled to their opinions, and I’m not going to call people out of their name just because they may have an opinion that is different from mine, but I’m also not willing to waste time debating with people who would support and facilitate those perpetuating the aforementioned disrespectful behaviors.  So how is this manifesting itself so far?  Well as far as social media is concerned, my index finger has yet to cool off due to how much I’ve had to hit the ignore button.  I’m just steadily erasing people from my online consciousness.  I sometimes frequent Tumblr, and the #natural-hair and #team-natural tags are rife with white women trying to assert their presence there.  I swear at this rate that I will have ignored half of the white women on Tumblr before this is over.  Same thing with Twitter.  I don’t have an Instagram account, but I would be doing the same there if I did.  I had been to the CN website a few times, not a subscriber or anything, but I have gotten rid of the bookmark that I had to her website, and I’ve actively avoided clicking on any articles from her site.  I’m saddened that MC (YouTuber) got involved in this.  I don’t follow many natural hair YouTubers, but I did like some of her videos.  I’m praying that Naptural85 stays out of the fray, because I am subbed to her, and it would kind of break my heart to unsub from her channel.  All of this turning my back on people with a differing opinion may seem extreme, but as I said, I’m not willing to support people who are insistent through their words or their actions on moving the “natural hair movement” in a direction that is clearly detrimental to black women.  There will be no click, sub or purchasing support from me for any bloggers, vloggers or product manufacturers who do so.  As far as how this is manifesting IRL, online communities move a lot faster than “real world” ones.  This particular issue is not one that I’ve had to address yet with anyone that I know; although, I’m sure that the issue will rear its ugly head at some point.  As already stated, I’m willing go to whatever extreme that I deem necessary to protect what I consider to be in the best interest of the natural hair community specifically and black women and girls in general.  Just to end this post on an up note, there are, thankfully, some white women out there who do get it.  Here’s a link to a very different kind of Q&A from a white curly reader on BGLH (Black Girl Long Hair): article I, for one, am more than ready and willing to continue sharing information cross-culturally with women such as Ali in this article who truly understand and respect the need for black women to have spaces unique to us and our experiences.




This response was fire. I think I felt the spirit just reading this.


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## Mingus (Jul 12, 2014)

...


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## Neomorph (Jul 12, 2014)

I don't think there is a problem with non-black women *learning* about how we care for our hair. Knowledge can give way to understanding and possibly less discrimination. But to try to say "Yeah I'm #teamnatural" or "My hair is kinky/nappy too" (this has been said) is *ridiculous and downright insulting*. Our hair is unique to those of African descent (*full-blooded or mixed*) and we should be allowed to have a space to talk about hair care and other things that affect us as a people. Other ethnicities do it so why can't we?

The analogy I would like to use is Native Americans and pow-wows. Sure I can go visit an open-to-the-public pow-wow. I can appreciate the culture and even ask a few questions. But should I slap a headdress and some moccasins on and jump into the middle of the circle and start dancing (not like I can dance anyways)? H*** NO!


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## naturalb2uty (Jul 12, 2014)

Saw this on tumblr 
Kathleen Cleaver (Why we wear our hair like this) - 1968
http://youtu.be/VwLpoy0nfng


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## CaraWalker (Jul 13, 2014)

Rhonda A. Lee  the Black woman who was fired from her meteorologist job in Shreveport, La., after defending her natural hair on the station’s Facebook page, has just accepted a job with a national weather channel in Colorado.

More than a year and a half has passed since Lee was fired from KTBS 3 News, an ABC affiliate in Shreveport, after she responded to users on Facebook who complained about her natural hairstyle. The station said Lee was fired for violating its social media policy. She has filed an EEOC complaint against the station and is in mediation to resolve her dismissal. Lee said she has no regrets about defending her natural hair and says her dispute with the Shreveport station hasn’t been an issue with her new employer.

“It wouldn’t require anything more than a brief explanation,” she said. “My new boss said, ‘I heard about that,’ and we moved on so that was it. Every once in a while in life, you find good people with good sense who know talent when they see it and know a good employee when they see it.”

Despite the frustration that comes from refusing to change her hair style to have a more mainstream, broadcast aesthetic, Lee says sticking to her values made the pain of unemployment worth it.

yall with this, ww? no? didnt think so.


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 13, 2014)

I remember that!that made me hot!


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## Saludable84 (Jul 13, 2014)

Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> I remember that!that made me hot!



There is no way to start discrimination suits against this.


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## Brwnbeauti (Jul 13, 2014)

I was reading my Maya Angelou Essence and thought of y'all. Here's what she said- 








I was like dang that's so true!


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## Cattypus1 (Jul 13, 2014)

charmtreese said:


> I joined a year before you, and race division is nothing new here.  If race division was not a concern this forum would never have been created.  Personally, I would prefer if white women were not apart of the"Natural hair Movement".  I don't care how curly their hair is or how frizzy it can become in the rain, their Journey is not ours and ours is not theirs.  All throughout school my hair and I were different, together we stood out and I was questioned, teased and made to feel ugly and less than.  I know my story is not the story of every black girl, but as a collective our stories are more similar then not, and as a collective our hair is more similar.  The "Natural Hair Movement" is a movement to showcase the black women's  pride, beauty, and diversity in their hair.  It should not be infiltrated by others just because they discovered a way to combat triangle hair or frizz.  In a sea of white girls with hair types ranging from 1-3b, I was the only one with 4b hair and not one of them could relate to my hair struggles. I remember this particular day like it was yesterday..... all the girls lined up to have their hair tidied up and the teacher with her tiny little blue comb looked right at me and then took the next girl.


 OMG...Yessss...when I was in High school and on an all white (except for me, of course) cheerleading squad, the other girls on my squad actually had a meeting to discuss my hair.  I was not invited to the meeting before the meeting but they took a vote and decided that while my cornrows were cute that I would need to take them down so that I could look like everyone else...WHAT!  Did they think that I with my 3-4 inches of 4-something hair and very, very brown skin and very, very embarrassingly curvy 15-year-old body was going to ever look like them?  I couldn't even explain to them that what they were asking was impossible...my first out-and-out experience with discrimination to my dang face!  Needless to say, my 15-year-old self was less-than-eloquent with my y'all iches better *********!  The experience made me cry and still stings almost 4 decades later.  I took a vote and by a vote of 1 to 0, I prefer "Becky" be excused from the "NHM".


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## Ogoma (Jul 13, 2014)

Read this comment online. It was from back in September and they were complaining about natural hair companies using only black people in their marketing.



> I'm with you with Shea moisture, I love their products for my hair b*ut it does bother me a bit that all the advertising on facebook is geared toward African american*.* I wrote them a while back why that is, I received a very politicly correct reply that in essence said other ethnicities predominantly wear their hair straight. I don't think those companies are racist just a bit ignorant*, and in the end they are loosing out.
> 
> And what is this black ppl have curls and white ppl have have waves that CURLS said on their fb page?



Wow!


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## DoDo (Jul 13, 2014)

Jouelzy's thoughts on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Iaz97AWuvE


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## DoDo (Jul 13, 2014)

4C Hair Chick's thoughts on this

http://youtu.be/HKg2c7iWtis?list=UU4NfQ7HbAvy3Oca5wypq7Bw


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## LadyRaider (Jul 13, 2014)

Cattypus1 said:


> OMG...Yessss...when I was in High school and on an all white (except for me, of course) cheerleading squad, the other girls on my squad actually had a meeting to discuss my hair.



Stop right there.


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## curlytwirly06 (Jul 13, 2014)

Ogoma said:


> Read this comment online. It was from back in September and they were complaining about natural hair companies using only black people in their marketing.  Wow!



Her privilege was going full blast wasn't it? We can't have anything. 99% of all companies are geared towards white woman. The one that doesn't is a problem and ignorant. I can't with this mess. This is why we need the natural movement to be specified as for colored girls only.


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## Saludable84 (Jul 13, 2014)

Ogoma said:


> Read this comment online. It was from back in September and they were complaining about natural hair companies using only black people in their marketing.  Wow!



Then they don't need to buy the product. We really have no products catered to us but the minute we do, it's a problem because we don't advertise it's for WP too? Are they writing to vatika and dabur too because I don't see ww on their products? I'm starting to think it's just US.


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 13, 2014)

Saludable84 said:


> Then they don't need to buy the product. We really have no products catered to us but the minute we do, it's a problem because we don't advertise it's for WP too? Are they writing to vatika and dabur too because I don't see ww on their products? I'm starting to think it's just US.



It is just us!  Thats because Indians and Asians have made it clear their ish is not to be messed with.  But they are used to us bending to their will and selling our ideas to them (for pennies compared to what they are truly worth) so the imaging can be changed. 

That is why we have to put our foot down, BACK EACH OTHER UP, and let it be clear that we are saying 




I wish I would have been the one to reply to that beckys email! Of course I probably would have gotten the company sued cause there would have been nothing pc about it


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## Serenity_Peace (Jul 13, 2014)

Mingus said:


> LOL   Thanks.  Cool affirmation for my first post.



Mingus

Welcome, sister. Girl, you know what you're talking about!


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## Serenity_Peace (Jul 14, 2014)

Everyone needs to watch this to understand why it matters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKg2c7iWtis


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## Kurlee (Jul 14, 2014)

Serenity_Peace said:


> Everyone needs to watch this to understand why it matters:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKg2c7iWtis



voice is distracting


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## SoopremeBeing (Jul 14, 2014)

I feel some kinda way about it. Sometimes I'll do a natural hair hashtag search on IG for some inspiration, and I'll see some white girls' pictures.

I don't feel they belong. Their hair has never been criticized by corporate America and the US military for not being "appropriate." They don't understand.


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## MilkChocolateOne (Jul 14, 2014)

Kurlee said:


> voice is distracting




Her voice doesn't bother me.


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## BostonMaria (Jul 14, 2014)

Serenity_Peace said:


> Everyone needs to watch this to understand why it matters:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKg2c7iWtis





Kurlee said:


> voice is distracting



Really? I thought she had a nice voice 
Her message was on point


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## Gin&Tonic (Jul 14, 2014)

SoopremeBeing said:


> I feel some kinda way about it. Sometimes I'll do a natural hair hashtag search on IG for some inspiration, and I'll see some white girls' pictures.  I don't feel they belong. Their hair has never been criticized by corporate America and the US military for not being "appropriate." They don't understand.



  They are not trying to understand our hair. We are low hanging fruit like black athletes. Their hair is not amazing to other whites so the want to come over to us and get some shine for having "good hair ".     

It's like the yt chick who can't dance will come to the black club and show out to hear "go white girl go !"    

Eta: these yt women are not rushing to support or natural bloggers and utubers. They want shine, fame and money.  They know what I know. They will always find blacks to support them- no matter how basic they are.  We can't come up as a people as long as others know they can use us .


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## mscurly (Jul 14, 2014)

This is late but I'm posting my two cents anyways regardless if someone reads it or not. 

I didn't read all 20 something pages of this thread but to answer the question......


I think there is a difference between the natural hair movement and the curly girl movement

teamnatural I think is for black women embracing their natural hair 

I was feautured in a documentary about having curly hair and in that film there were all races and textures including white talking about curly hair and the way society treats them and yes there are a lot of white women who were made fun of because their hair was curly and because they didnt fit into the long straight hair image.

I didn't mind participating because it was about curly hair NEVER did they use the word Natural because it didn't apply.

I'm all for inclusion if it's strictly for people with curly hair. Because yes black people aren't the only ones with curly hair.

However if you have a website talking about "transitioning" "big chop" embracing your "natural" beauty then yes I think it is a black movement. 


I think this is more of a team natural vs team curly and yes I think there is a difference.


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## MissCrawford (Jul 14, 2014)

Serenity_Peace said:


> Everyone needs to watch this to understand why it matters:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKg2c7iWtis



Really enjoyed it.


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## LadyRaider (Jul 14, 2014)

Hah hah... speaking of white folks being prosecuted for their hair...

There's a white male professor here that was forced to get a hair cut. You would think that a professor could wear his hair anyway he wants. I mean there is nothing corporate about universities! But he was told that since he has to go talk with and facilitate meetings with superintendents that he can't wear his wear long. He is major bummed and feels discriminated against.

Me on the other hand... I'm showing up in cornrows, braid outs, twist outs, loud headbands and flowers, big fluffy hair styles any ol' dang time I please. I dare someone to say something to me. Even though I also deal with public schools. 

Hah... poooooooo white folks!


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## Gin&Tonic (Jul 14, 2014)

mscurly said:


> This is late but I'm posting my two cents anyways regardless if someone reads it or not.
> 
> I didn't read all 20 something pages of this thread but to answer the question......
> 
> ...



Sigh... You are so right. The curly hair movement and the natural hair movement are two separate movements.

You can be in the curly hair movement with a curly haired blond. But you cant be in the blond hair movement (even if you dye your hair blond) and she cant be in the natural hair movement.

Its simple really. It's just our need to put whites in everything that causes the confusion.


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## Mingus (Jul 14, 2014)

...


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## chrisanddonniesmommy (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm not here to make yt women feel good about themselves. They have plenty of places to seek comfort. I need a space with fellow black women to discuss whatever's floating in our minds daily.


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## MsKinkycurl (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm not surprised white women are trying to include themselves in the natural hair movement, now that it has become popular. What surprises me is that black women are bending over backwards attacking eachother just to make white women feel comfortable. 

White women can think what they want to think as long as WE don't lose sight of the truth. What we need to do was gently shut them done and keep it moving when they try to start trouble. The can be a part of the group but they can't REBRAND the movement.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using LHCF


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## Honey Bee (Jul 15, 2014)

Psssst.  If this whole thing riled you up, come join us in taking *action*.

Find us over here... and then follow the breadcrumbs.


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## PJaye (Jul 15, 2014)

Honey Bee said:


> Psssst.  If this whole thing riled you up, come join us in taking *action*.
> 
> Find us over here... and then follow the breadcrumbs.



What provisions, if any, are there for those that don't utilize Facebook/social media?


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 17, 2014)

Not to restart sh!t but I was on pinterest looking for African themed weddings and this is the first pic that popped up



Needless to say, this is why we need to keep this inclusive with US


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## DoDo (Jul 18, 2014)

Mz.MoMo5235 said:


> Not to restart sh!t but I was on pinterest looking for African themed weddings and this is the first pic that popped up
> 
> View attachment 269379
> 
> Needless to say, this is why we need to keep this inclusive with US


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## Froreal3 (Jul 18, 2014)

PJaye said:


> What provisions, if any, are there for those that don't utilize Facebook/social media?



PJaye. None right now. However, I think we may just switch to a private board of some sort because we're not feeling the set up of FB.


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## Zedster (Jul 18, 2014)

Froreal3 said:


> PJaye. None right now. However, I think we may just switch to a private board of some sort because we're not feeling the set up of FB.



Please keep us posted about any new changes!


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## PhonyBaloney500 (Jul 24, 2014)

Got picked up on Refinery29. Not surprised that the owner of that Doo Wop website doesn't see any issue with the feature. We are all one!

"
She adds, “You ask a woman about her hair, and she tells you about her life: how she felt in high school, how her mom styled her hair, how her significant other reacts to her hair.” Because of this, *Patterson says we shouldn’t be thinking about hair ethnically because we all have a shared experience of journeying to self-love."
*
No it is not the same.

http://www.refinery29.com/natural-h...ampaign=140724-income-disparity-in-nyc#page-1

Comments are amusing as well.


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## Mz.MoMo5235 (Jul 24, 2014)

I'm not giving them my darn clicks


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## HeavenlySkies (Jul 24, 2014)

bunnycolvin said:


> idk if this has been posted in this thread but i saw a post about it the other day that i loved



I need to buy that woman a drink where can I find her?


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