# Your Dealbreakers



## aribell (May 21, 2009)

Hi Ladies,

I'm curious to know what your personal relationship dealbreakers are.  We talk about "godliness" and whatnot, but do you have a concrete idea of what that means specifically to you?  

Would you (or do you) get so detailed as to care about the TV shows he watched or movies he went to?  How long his devotionals are? 

And, would you evaluate him in comparison with where you are spiritually?  (So, for instance, he goes to church and lives by the Bible generally, but you go to morning _and_ evening services, and serve in church leadership).

Hope the question's not too vague.


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## PaperClip (May 21, 2009)

Don't mean to wreck your thread... but here it comes....

I USED TO have a set of stipulations that I guess could be called dealbreakers. But as time goes on and age rises and things presented by well-meaning parents and pastors and mentors and spiritual folks are not as they are always seem, or maybe generational differences, I just don't know.

I have dealbreakers across the board, regardless of gender, relationship status, etc.: don't lie to me, don't betray me, don't embarrass me, don't intend to deceive me, don't mislead me, own and take care of your own stuff (spiritual, emotional, ideological, offspring, etc.), be yourself, be authentic, have integrity, keep your money straight, etc.

Now I'm not going to hook up with anyone who visits the strip club on the regular. And it means something that if a brother is interested in me and he wants to be authentic with me, then he needs to disclose that he's a strip club regular so that I can make an informed decision. And if I find out that I got lied to about it?  Yikes... 

All the stuff about certain television shows and drinking and cussing as dealbreakers? Sigh.... how much is too much? One of my longtime sisterfriends is getting married in July. This is her third marriage. He's a nice guy. She met him at the church she's attended her whole life and he's attended there for quite a while (like a decade). In conversations we've had, I've only had one question for her: does he have the Holy Spirit.... Does he speak in tongues? She didn't say yes or no. Her church believes in the Holy Spirit so I asked her how could he have attended the church for so long and not have been water and/or spirit-baptized? She didn't have an answer. They've been going together for about three years. 

I thought that could have been a dealbreaker but apparently it's not. And her other husbands were not Holy Spirit filled, either. 

My parents: been married over 40 years. My father was not even saved when they met. My mom grew up in church saved...was an elder's daughter. My dad did start attending church when they got married and he has gone to church with my mom before I was born and after. They are both active in their church. 

So said all that to say...at least for me, I don't know what matters anymore.


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## inthepink (May 21, 2009)

I'll tell you some items from my eHarmony profile:

I can't stand someone who takes advantage of people
I can't stand someone who can't manage their anger, who yells, or bottles it up inside.
I can't stand someone who is belittling, impatient or hateful to people in any situation.
I can't stand someone who is unable to accept blame or see fault in their own actions.
While I understand that religious conviction is a positive trait, I can't stand someone who is self-righteous and feels that their particular faith is the only one that matters.
I can't stand someone who is incapable of managing their money.
I can't stand someone who is inclined to rowdy, vulgar or disrespectful behavior when "having fun."
I can't stand someone who finds fault with everyone and everything.
I can't stand someone who fails to come through and is unreliable.
I can't stand someone who swears or uses inappropriate language or humor.
I can't stand someone who believes that any particular ethnic group to which they belong is superior to the rest of humanity.
I can't stand someone who views or owns pornography in any form.
I can't stand someone who is unkempt.
I can't stand someone who is obnoxiously cocky.
I can't stand someone who always sees the glass as half empty.


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## aribell (May 21, 2009)

hairlove said:


> I'll tell you some items from my eHarmony profile:
> 
> I can't stand someone who takes advantage of people
> I can't stand someone who can't manage their anger, who yells, or bottles it up inside.
> ...


 
I love that "Must Haves/Can't Stands" exercise!  I found it very insightful, if only personally to understand what was really valuable to me.  I think that general filter is really good.  I just wonder from a particularly Christian perspective what particularly "Christiany" things different Christian women care about and consider to be essential, and how specific Christian women believe they need to get re: the spiritual life of their potential partner.


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## inthepink (May 21, 2009)

Ok,

I have a short story for you.  My girlfriend who got married last year was broken up with her now DH for a month or so before they got back together and then got engaged.  Why? Because she was upset that his spiritual life wasn't what she expected of a spiritual leader.  She didn't think he "knew" enough.  But this is coming from a person who loved to study theology.  Apparently, they worked it out and are now happily married.

I can see this being an issue for me, too b/c I also love theology - I am sure you have seen my overly analytical questions!  But, it's not a deal breaker for me.  As long as he is able and willing to be a spiritual leader - which would include continually working on his relationship with Christ - we should be good to go.

If he doesn't enjoy church, that would be a problem for me also b/c I love church and I want a husband to attend with me and my family - and not b/c I guilt-tripped him into going.

It would be a big deal-breaker if he claimed to be a Christian but his actions proved otherwise.  (i.e. getting drunk, going to strip clubs, cursing, etc.)

Another deal breaker would be if he doesn't want to own up to the role of being a man.  Is he able to take care of me - does he want to? If he can't afford to date me (i.e. paying for me), then he shouldn't ask me out.  If he asks me to go dutch, it's just not going to make it.  Been there, done that. 

Just the few I can think of right now.  Hard to put down sometimes - you just know it when you see it.


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## BeautifulFlower (May 21, 2009)

Caution: I am going to speak from a Christian and a carnel stand point.

Christian Dealbreakers: 
Dont question the authority of the bible. 
Dont justify your fornication. 
Dont justify why you dont attend church by saying you're a bedside baptist.
I will not date a minister.

Carnel Dealbreakers:
I dont like angry men. 
I dont like pushy men. 
I dont like men in the entertainment industry or politics.
I dont like smokers. 
I dont like drinkers. 
I dont like cowards. 
I dont like jobless men. 
I dont like smelly men. 
I dont like laziness. 
I dont like arrogance. 
I dont like flirtatious men. 
I dont like cheap men. 
I dont like liars. 
I dont like baby-daddies. 
I dont like "my girl aint treating me right" men.

I am not here to coach or train you. I will leave before I make up a project.

There's more I am sure...


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## kayte (May 21, 2009)

blue represents what I'm focusing on having  

     

any or all emotional/physical/fantasy-infidelity.......
100 per cent committed in heart bodymind and soul to one woman and cherishes  and nurtures monogamy

pornography............finds it distasteful & disresepctful to self and women  

controlling .............open...supportive...spontaneous
stingy....................generous ..philanthropic,altuistic
poor......................wealthy prosperous abundant
addicts..................balanced..centered,tranquil
poor self esteem.......confident...happy...charismatic...
personable healthy powerful a winner 

uneducated..............cerebral,esoteric,erudite,literary academic,committed to growing..successful

racist......................humankind loving and accepting

superifcial.................deeply spiritual,introspective..understanding realist idealist 

atheist...................... a seeker..giver....loves and worships in active relationship w/ Jesus Christ as Savior

punitive, violent, combative,antagonistic,abusive in verbally mentally physically . 
sensitive.attentive...caring...
conscientious,gentle,respectful
harmonious,never touches/d a woman in violence

lazy......ambitious...athletic...motivated self initiatior

unromantic.................passionate.....devoted...ardent.....

unnattractive.............well groomed....handsome....image reflects healthy inner life

liar............................honest truthful...moral ..integrity....

coward.....................protector ..courageous...selfless...strong hero 
boring........................adventurous...poetic...creative.. humorous...spontaneous...
companionable..
distant...unavailable..rejecting .........compatible..symbiotic...intimate...interdependent


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## honeyflaava (May 21, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Caution: I am going to speak from a Christian and a carnel stand point.
> 
> Christian Dealbreakers:
> Dont question the authority of the bible.
> ...




Hey PrettyfaceANB: I'm just a little curious as to why you have a "Christian" list and a "carnal" list seeing as how the majority of the things on the "carnal" list are addressed in scripture, especially in the book of Proverbs. I mean, specific verses come to mind while reading a few of those items. Not putting you out there or anything, but I'm just genuinely curious as to why you categorized some of these things as being carnal.


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## PaperClip (May 21, 2009)

honeyflaava said:


> Hey PrettyfaceANB: I'm just a little curious as to why you have a "Christian" list and a "carnal" list seeing as how the majority of the things on the "carnal" list are addressed in scripture, especially in the book of Proverbs. I mean, specific verses come to mind while reading a few of those items. Not putting you out there or anything, but I'm just genuinely curious as to why you categorized some of these things as being carnal.


 
I think I understand what you're saying. Christian men can be flirtatious, lazy, jobless, etc. And as you say, the Word of God speaks to these (and other) "issues" and how the people of God should avoid them or words of wisdom to change toward healthier behaviors.


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## BeautifulFlower (May 21, 2009)

honeyflaava said:


> Hey PrettyfaceANB: I'm just a little curious as to why you have a "Christian" list and a "carnal" list seeing as how the majority of the things on the "carnal" list are addressed in scripture, especially in the book of Proverbs. I mean, specific verses come to mind while reading a few of those items. Not putting you out there or anything, but I'm just genuinely curious as to why you categorized some of these things as being carnal.


 
You're right. I think I just started typing without thinking because I just dont like any of that stuff.


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## aribell (May 22, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Ok,
> 
> I have a short story for you. My girlfriend who got married last year was broken up with her now DH for a month or so before they got back together and then got engaged. Why? *Because she was upset that his spiritual life wasn't what she expected of a spiritual leader. She didn't think he "knew" enough. But this is coming from a person who loved to study theology. Apparently, they worked it out and are now happily married.*


 
This is what I mean.  Until recently I was in the process of becoming ordained.  Near the beginning of that process, my pastor (male) said that there would always be a difference in the level of conviction I felt and that of my (future) spouse.  I never quite figured out what that means practically.  I think it can be easy for some to become overly-scrupulous about things that don't really have an impact on whether you can have a loving, Christian home.  

Anyway, here are my must-haves/can't stands (in no particular order)--I find it very interesting the things that are important to different people:

Family...I must have someone who shares my desire to have and/or adopt children.
Parent care...I must have someone who is willing to help me care for my parents now or when the time comes.
Spirit of Volunteerism...I must have someone who shares my willingness to volunteer and support community/social causes.
Emotionally Generous...I must have a partner who enjoys people and is generous with his or her compassion, attention, sympathies and love.
Religious Practice...My partner must be committed to being an active member of a church or temple congregation.
Verbal Intimacy...I must know that my partner is sharing their deepest emotional thoughts and desires.
Style and Appearance...I must have someone who cares about the way they look and dress and has a sense of personal style.
Strong Character...I must have a partner who is honest and strong enough to do the right thing.
Chemistry...I must feel deeply in love with and attracted to my partner.

Fiscally Irresponsible...I can't stand someone who is incapable of managing their money.
Lying...I can't stand someone who lies to anyone--especially to me.
Dependence...I can't stand someone who bases their happiness on me.
Rude...I can't stand someone who is belittling, impatient, or hateful to people in any situation.
Extremely Shy...I can't stand someone who is so shy that they cannot open up and share with me.
Lazy...I can't stand someone who likes to spend excessive time sleeping, resting, or being a "couch potato."
Infidelity...I can't stand someone who engages in sex outside a committed relationship.
Mean Spirited...I can't stand someone who has a devious nature and is mean to others.
Denial...I can't stand someone who is unable to accept blame or see fault in their own actions.
Unhappy at Work...I can't stand someone who hates their job and complains about it all the time.

The only thing I'd add is Psalm 40:8--"I delight to do your will O Lord, and your law is written on my heart."  He must live this!



prettyfaceANB said:


> I will not date a minister.



I also feel this way.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (May 22, 2009)

I think it would be pretty difficult to document another's ung-dly behaviors unless you caught them in the act.  The things a guy will do to get a girl he likes....lying.  I do have high standards...but making sure a guy's not transgressing goodness...hard to ascertain.  If they confessed things like impurity or drug use....next!!!!


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## inthepink (May 22, 2009)

Nicola - Regarding your comment about people listing various things, just think of it this way - I'm sure most of us see other important things as we see others lists! Also, eHarmony only lets you pick 10 of each!  So, one of the books I read about eHarmony said not to waste those 10 of things that are "givens" - ie. Of course you don't want someone who does recreational drugs! So, I think some things go without saying whether on the list or not.

Anyways - I think your list is great and I do see some things that you find important that I don't! We're all different.


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## aribell (May 22, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Nicola - Regarding your comment about people listing various things, just think of it this way - I'm sure most of us see other important things as we see others lists! Also, eHarmony only lets you pick 10 of each! So, one of the books I read about eHarmony said not to waste those 10 of things that are "givens" - ie. Of course you don't want someone who does recreational drugs! So, I think some things go without saying whether on the list or not.
> 
> Anyways - I think your list is great and I do see some things that you find important that I don't! We're all different.


 
True!  I felt a little guilty at first about my "Personal Style" dealbreaker, but eh, it is what it is--there's no denying it.  A "friend" of mine recently told me about his love of ironing and how he just had to make sure his pants were creased.  I was like


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## chicacanella (May 23, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> I'm curious to know what your personal relationship dealbreakers are. We talk about "godliness" and whatnot, but do you have a concrete idea of what that means specifically to you?
> 
> ...


 
Well, when I first started praying about this man I like (who I've had repeated confirmation through The Holy Spirit, incidents, prophecy that he is indeed my husband)  I didn't know what to think about him. I mean, I was attracted to him but I didn't know if he was the right man for me and I'd almost made the biggest mistake of my life last summer so I was not trying to mess up again.  But I wasn't even checking for him but it was like one day, I looked up and realized that I really liked him. I believe it was God opening my eyes to see him in a romantic way because even though he's very handsome, I wasn't focused on men at that point but just trying to do right by God...so in the midst of it all, I could've very easily missed him.

I didn't know where he was spiritually but I knew that he was a Christian. But I've learned that this isn't enough. So, I prayed to God and he told me in a dream that basically, yes I can help this man be the man of God he is called to be but it is imperative that we stay under God. In my mind, I had inspiration from The Holy Spirit that we both were under this kind of pillar or like this box was covering us. He told me that we can not ever, ever stray from being under God and really stressed this point.

So, I know that God is changing Him and me at the same time.  When we finally come together and God leads him to propose to me, I know that he isn't perfect. But what I do know is that God has told me many times that he's my husband. So, there may be things that I don't think are right that he watches or listens to but I know that God is continuing to change both of us.  I wouldn't advise everyone to take this approach that "God will change" after meeting a man but in my situation, I personally know that he is for me.


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## kayte (May 23, 2009)

when I look at our lists..to me... they agree on _essentially_ the same things! Just expressed semantically in our own ways~.

philanthropy..altruism..on my list ..........same for me as Nicole's Spirit of Volunteering
well groomed....handsome....image reflects healthy inner life...similiar to Nicole's personal style
prosperous abundant wealthy.................similiar as  managing money on Hairlove's list 
for me fidelitiy......................................same as on pretty's list...,I dont like flirtatious men

the beauty of the lists for me is not to compare tho!....
but as with the Praise Thread
...Speak Aloud..etc..
where some members will see in some one's post something that
also feels right and belongs for them....and they claim to  include in theirs
.
....it is to share and learn,and even exchange...I think


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## aribell (May 23, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> So, I know that God is changing Him and me at the same time. When we finally come together and God leads him to propose to me, I know that he isn't perfect. *But what I do know is that God has told me many times that he's my husband. So, there may be things that I don't think are right that he watches or listens to but I know that God is continuing to change both of us. I wouldn't advise everyone to take this approach that "God will change" after meeting a man but in my situation, I personally know that he is for me*.


 
I understand what you mean.  To take a really extreme example (that's not at all directed toward your story), Gomer was not at all a "good catch" but it was clearly the Lord's will that Hosea take her as his wife.  When the Lord speaks, we can have faith that He has a plan and purpose for it, beyond what we might think should or shouldn't happen.

If the Lord has ordained it, He will provide for it to be all that He desires it to be.


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## kayte (May 23, 2009)

> I think it would be pretty difficult *to document another's ung-dly behaviors *unless you caught them in the act. The things a guy will do to get a girl he likes....lying. I do have high standards...*but making sure a guy's not trangessing goodness...hard to ascertain*. If they confessed things like impurity or drug use....next!!!!



I think that's a risky mindset..not that you have it!
but for a woman to harbor those feelings..
I mean some things will JUST come up unexpectedly! ..you find a playboy mag in the back seat of his car with his name mail-labeled on the cover and so you know he has a subscription..that kind of thing..and possibly forces a confrontation or begins some kind of talk to see if there is meeting of the minds..or gathering more info...to inform a decison   

but ideally... deal breakers in a healthy relationship 
enables a person male or female to define what they want ..and so....
they have a better chance of attaining it..if not in each other then as you said..NEXT~~

and so....they are _ not kept secret or used as a clandestine checks and balances _
_on a guy's behavior where if he's caught.... he's out_

but rather an evolving open intimate dialogue...an integral building block of 
the foundation of a growing healthy relationship..... 
&as means of establishing parameters..gathering data....establishing trust....compatibiltiy 
and being on the same page spiritually.....so not about recording the act 
of sinning...per se.. 
at least not for me....

so this is discussed during the dating or courtship as part of learning 
not only  about the other person but as a
person functioning in this particular culture of couplehood


don't you kind of naturally discuss what you aspire for with a guy 
and he with you....in the course of ..things?..
relationship goals and such? 

that's kind of how I see it


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## BeautifulFlower (May 23, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I think it would be pretty difficult to document another's ung-dly behaviors unless you caught them in the act. The things a guy will do to get a girl he likes....lying. I do have high standards...but making sure a guy's not trangessing goodness...hard to ascertain. If they confessed things like impurity or drug use....next!!!!


 
This is where discernment is required. It doesnt take very long for a person to show their true colors. Especially if youre not having sex with them, your senses are not obscured by lust. Guys will lie but Jesus is the light in the darkness. Ask Jesus to bring his character traits to the surface and you have to be objectively ready for whatever Jesus presents to you about this person. With experience and God, discerning a person's character gets easier and takes less and less time.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (May 23, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> This is where discernment is required. It doesnt take very long for a person to show their true colors. Especially if youre not having sex with them, your senses are not obscured by lust. Guys will lie but Jesus is the light in the darkness. Ask Jesus to bring his character traits to the surface and you have to be objectively ready for whatever Jesus presents to you about this person. With experience and God, discerning a person's character gets easier and takes less and less time.



Basically, I don't mean in general, I mean one or two in that list that aren't quite so grave...but if you knew they did it, you'd pass on them because they'd color the person "ugly" enough for you to skip them.  Things that are hard to spot and verify unless you were there when they did it.  You can certainly use discernment, but you  absolutely cannot babysit a man.  I agree in general with you but there are some people expert at hiding things.  They are embarassed and are trying to get you because you're a good find...but if  only you knew about it.... was a recent transgression or even past...they know they'd be on the bottom of the list.  Thing is, you can't always know how addicted someone is to behaviors, and I'm not talking sex or drugs.  Even if the couple has known each other for years, and I'm speaking from experience having been married, you learn about each other's deepest behaviors on the job...not all is obvious before.  You grow into each other and figure out about each other as time goes on.


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> True!  I felt a little guilty at first about my "Personal Style" dealbreaker, but eh, it is what it is--there's no denying it.  A "friend" of mine recently told me about his love of ironing and how he just had to make sure his pants were creased.  I was like



Now, that's one that's important to me also.  I want someone who cares about how they look, etc.  Wrinkled clothing is really a turn-off to me.


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

chicacanella said:


> So, I know that God is changing Him and me at the same time.  When we finally come together and God leads him to propose to me, I know that he isn't perfect. But what I do know is that God has told me many times that he's my husband. So, there may be things that I don't think are right that he watches or listens to but I know that God is continuing to change both of us.  I wouldn't advise everyone to take this approach that "God will change" after meeting a man but in my situation, I personally know that he is for me.



Would you say that you are in the process of courting so that you are getting to know each other?


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

kayte said:


> I think that's a risky mindset..not that you have it!
> but for a woman to harbor those feelings..
> I mean some things will JUST come up unexpectedly! ..you find a playboy mag in the back seat of his car with his name mail-labeled on the cover and so you know he has a subscription..that kind of thing..and possibly forces a confrontation or begins some kind of talk to see if there is meeting of the minds..or gathering more info...to inform a decison
> 
> ...



I've never been there but I sure hope it's natural.


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> This is where discernment is required. It doesnt take very long for a person to show their true colors. Especially if youre not having sex with them, your senses are not obscured by lust. Guys will lie but Jesus is the light in the darkness. Ask Jesus to bring his character traits to the surface and you have to be objectively ready for whatever Jesus presents to you about this person. With experience and God, discerning a person's character gets easier and takes less and less time.



This is true! It's up to you to pay attention and then act - i.e. move on!  Wish I'd done that a few times!


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## kayte (May 23, 2009)

> *but you absolutely cannot babysit a man*. I agree in general with you but there are some people expert at hiding things. They are embarassed and are trying to get you because you're a good find...but if only you knew about it.... was a recent transgression or even past...they know they'd be on the bottom of the list. Thing is, you can't always know how addicted someone is to behaviors, and I'm not talking sex or drugs. Even if the couple has known each other for years, and I'm speaking from experience having been married, you learn about each other's deepest behaviors on the job...not all is obvious before. You grow into each other and figure out about each other as time goes on.



that's the point though...no one should HAVE to or even desire to babysit
An honest man will tell you those things..and not try to hide and lie to keep you 
that's a _manipulative _man...& that's hard to hide..
men reveal themselves EARLY



> You grow into each other and figure out about each other as time goes on.


I agree..the more I think about it...

and what you learn on the job should more like ...he leaves the toilet seat up
...he's always playing Nat King Cole when I want to listen ot Salt'n Pepa
he raids the frig..when he's stressed at midinght.... 
he paces when he's angry and won't talk .....he needs to take a walk to cool in a fight
.....and this make you feel vulnerable.... tc etc
integrating habits and what not..

but you're right 
some of the deeper pyschological stuff does not always surface right away
I guess i'm saying the moral fiber shld be there,tho


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## kayte (May 23, 2009)

> don't you kind of naturally discuss what you aspire for with a guy
> and he with you....in the course of ..things?..
> relationship goals and such?
> 
> that's kind of how I see it






> I've never been there but I sure hope it's natural.


oh yeah..with a man who you like and likes and feels this HAS potential..
you're both excited by a future.

you will both quite naurally...air....expectations..hopes... dreams


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (May 23, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Now, that's one that's important to me also.  I want someone who cares about how they look, etc.  Wrinkled clothing is really a turn-off to me.




I went to Sunday school one day awhile back and there was this PhD'd man who showed up and I kid you not, he was wrinkled from head to toe.  I was shocked actually.  I mean, it looked like he just didn't give a darn!  Like he put too many clothes to wash in the first place, then dried them all together and left them there to wrinkle over time.    Seriously, like a crumpled piece of paper, over and over again.  I felt sorry.  Somethings intellect can't adjust for.  Gotta at least care about yourself...how then will you care for another?


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (May 23, 2009)

kayte said:


> that's the point though...no one should HAVE to or even desire to babysit
> *An honest man will tell you those things..and not try to hide and lie to keep you
> that's a manipulative man...& that's hard to hide..
> men reveal themselves EARLY*
> ...



Honest men are known to hide a thing or two as well lol....that occasional peek at the porn site on the net hehe.  "Oh, it was once or twice, well, maybe 3-4 but I won't do it again."  LOL.  They don't always reach for your butt on a date.  

Deeper psychological...yeah.  But mainly those things driving you crazy after a few years like:

not switching your automatic car seats back
bottom toothpaste squeezer
toilet seat up
moody upon waking
like a baby with a cold, moaning like a crazy fool lol
digging for gold lolol!
ball-scratcher....ewwww!!!
Perpetual farters

(disclaimer:none of these were my personal experiences)


...all those married things each puts up with each other and didn't know in the beginning.  Marriage is a trip.


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I went to Sunday school one day awhile back and there was this PhD'd man who showed up and I kid you not, he was wrinkled from head to toe.  I was shocked actually.  I mean, it looked like he just didn't give a darn!  Like he put too many clothes to wash in the first place, then dried them all together and left them there to wrinkle over time.    Seriously, like a crumpled piece of paper, over and over again.  I felt sorry.  Somethings intellect can't adjust for.  *Gotta at least care about yourself...how then will you care for another?*



I agree!!! Whenever I see someone like that - wrinkled clothing or too short pants, I check to see if they have a ring (aka married).  If they are married, I'm sorry but I always think "Now why did his wife let him walk out of the house like that?"


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> But mainly those things driving you crazy after a few years like:
> 
> not switching your automatic car seats back
> bottom toothpaste squeezer
> ...



Yes, those things are sure to come up at some point. I look at my parents (40 years' married) and they sure do put up with some stuff.  Nothing too bad but there are things.


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## aribell (May 23, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the responses and conversation.  I have a specific question that's kind of bothering me.  I'm not sure whether I'm being overly demanding/picky (I've been called both before) or just sensible.

So, this young man is definitely a Christian, his mother is a pastor, grew up in church, gives sermonettes during special services, does his devotionals, leads Bible study sometimes, prays, all that.  We're good friends and I know he takes the Word seriously and we have conversations about it, about what we learned in church, and also about lifestyle stuff, like our thoughts on adultery, premarital sex (which he's against), getting drunk, etc.

In so many ways he has my trust and respect, and yet, I really am bothered by different things he chooses to participate in or watch.  For instance, he told me about a Cinco de Mayo 7-hour bar crawl he went on, that he said he didn't get drunk during (though he was "less than sober"), but which also involved everyone around him being drunk.  He also said that one of his favorite movies that he likes to watch repeatedly is "The 40 Year-Old Virgin" which, when I watched, I was honestly scandalized by...and it generally takes a lot.  I know it's just a movie, but I still feel that it has to reflect _something_ about his character, I just don't know what.

Plus, he seems to wait for me to say what should happen next, and that bothers me also from a spiritual/relationship leadership perspective.  Not that he'd go along with anything I said, but he'll just wait for me to say what needs to be said, and I find that quite irksome and slightly worrying.

In light of the big picture I wonder if I shouldn't get over it/let it go.  At the same time, I feel like it's so easy to become hardened to the Spirit's voice, and I don't want to start accepting things that I'd long since rejected before he came along.  Plus, I feel kind of hypocritical since I can't say that everything I see/watch is pristine, either.  Thoughts?


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

Nicola,

I can understand where you're coming from.

The first thing that came to mind was to start paying attention to yourself and the things you might be doing that you aren't ok with.  For example, you said how it bothers you that he'd watch movies like 40-year-old virgin but meanwhile you know that you also watch things that might not be appropriate (not calling you out b/c I am the same!).  And then once you give some thought to those things (or maybe you know them off-hand), you and he can have an honest discussion about them.

My guess is that if you even have in your mind that you have an uneasy feeling about some of the things you watch (like something is telling you that you shouldn't be watching that), then ask yourself why and will you continue to do so?  

Talk to him to find out if those things he mentioned even bother him. Does he have any sense of feeling like something isn't quite right with watching those things or doing pub crawls?  If he doesn't, I would probably be a bit concerned and would want to know why.

My guess is that no one has ever questioned him on it so he never thought about it or he just never got a "feeling" about it.

Also, I guess we are all different about what bothers us and what doesn't.

Some things I watched in the past, I would no longer watch now.  Still, there are things are watch now that I haven't yet been convicted about no longer watching.

I probably didn't give you a clear answer but just some things to think about.


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## PaperClip (May 23, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Thanks everyone for the responses and conversation. I have a specific question that's kind of bothering me. I'm not sure whether I'm being overly demanding/picky (I've been called both before) or just sensible.
> 
> So, this young man is definitely a Christian, his mother is a pastor, grew up in church, gives sermonettes during special services, does his devotionals, leads Bible study sometimes, prays, all that. We're good friends and I know he takes the Word seriously and we have conversations about it, about what we learned in church, and also about lifestyle stuff, like our thoughts on adultery, premarital sex (which he's against), getting drunk, etc.
> 
> ...


 
WHY do we (general use of term) focus on things we CANNOT control? 

The bolded speaks VOLUMES about where this brother's mind is..... He's not sitting around wondering about what you're doing and whether or not the activities you're engaging in are lawful and/or expedient to your salvation/Christian walk. He's very clear about what he's doing. He likes his bar crawls and post-college frat boy movies. How can two walk together except they be agreed? He's not even trying to find/make agreement with you about the current or next level of you all's relationship/interactions.

I just had a conversation with a sisterfriend from church about leaders and leadership. I've seen a person get in the pulpit and preach the saints to the ceiling but outside the pulpit? Yikes!

I am not trying to be a dream buster. I am saying that when people (regardless of relationship) show you who they are by what they do, BELIEVE THEM and govern yourself accordingly.


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> WHY do we (general use of term) focus on things we CANNOT control?
> 
> The bolded speaks VOLUMES about where this brother's mind is..... He's not sitting around wondering about what you're doing and whether or not the activities you're engaging in are lawful and/or expedient to your salvation/Christian walk. He's very clear about what he's doing. He likes his bar crawls and post-college frat boy movies. How can two walk together except they be agreed? He's not even trying to find/make agreement with you about the current or next level of you all's relationship/interactions.
> 
> ...



Well, this is it!! I believe this says it all!

You're so right that we can't control people.  We can't "make" them see that something they are doing is not quite right - or maybe just not right for us.  If we don't like it and it bothers us THAT much, then we probably just need to move on!


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## aribell (May 23, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> WHY do we (general use of term) focus on things we CANNOT control?
> 
> The bolded speaks VOLUMES about where this brother's mind is..... He's not sitting around wondering about what you're doing and whether or not the activities you're engaging in are lawful and/or expedient to your salvation/Christian walk. He's very clear about what he's doing. He likes his bar crawls and post-college frat boy movies. How can two walk together except they be agreed? He's not even trying to find/make agreement with you about the current or next level of you all's relationship/interactions.
> 
> ...


 
This is fair enough.  I know how he is, and don't think I can change him, nor would I want to.  For me, the question is whether my standards are biblical or not, as I don't want to be looking back later saying "Well, that wasn't that big of a deal after all."  Your point is very well taken, though.


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> This is fair enough.  I know how he is, and don't think I can change him, nor would I want to.  For me, the question is whether my standards are biblical or not, as I don't want to be looking back later saying "Well, that wasn't that big of a deal after all."  Your point is very well taken, though.



I think it's a big deal.  Honestly, if you were married, how would you feel about having a husband who wanted to do pub crawls?  Even if it was only occasionally?  

Maybe it bothers you.  Maybe it bothers me.  Maybe it doesn't bother someone else.  Who knows?  I guess we all have different things we can tolerate or not - dealbreakers.


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## PaperClip (May 23, 2009)

hairlove said:


> I think it's a big deal. Honestly, if* you were married, how would you feel about having a husband who wanted to do pub crawls? Even if it was only occasionally? *
> 
> Maybe it bothers you. Maybe it bothers me. Maybe it doesn't bother someone else. Who knows? I guess we all have different things we can tolerate or not - dealbreakers.


 
The bolded is where the imagination can get one into trouble. This person has not given (based on what's been shared so far) ANY INDICATION of being marriage minded toward nicole. But that's what we (Christian) women do.... we put all our focus and energies on ONE prospect while our male counterparts will have more than one sister on the roster (prospects). And there's nothing wrong with having prospects...as long as all minds are clear about it...no intention to deceive. And technically, if the brother has NOT said anything directly about wanting exclusivity and subsequent plans about said exclusivity, then has he intended to deceive?

I'm just sharing it like this because I'VE BEEN THERE. And I put myself through so much unnecessary drama because of it. Now I've learned that I don't have to guess about a prospects affections/inclinations toward me.


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## aribell (May 23, 2009)

hairlove said:


> I think it's a big deal. Honestly, if you were married, how would you feel about having a husband who wanted to do pub crawls? Even if it was only occasionally?
> 
> Maybe it bothers you. Maybe it bothers me. Maybe it doesn't bother someone else. Who knows? I guess we all have different things we can tolerate or not - dealbreakers.


 
Well, that was exactly my feeling.  I just wanted to get some outside perspectives to be sure.

I should also add that when he told me about it, he wasn't really nonchalant about it, he wanted to know what I felt about it and I was honest, and he said he appreciated me telling him that.  Like I mentioned, we talk about our spiritual lives, and he talks constantly about how he wants to grow into a better Christian constantly, and also how he's going about doing that.  

I'm not saying at all that that excuses anything, since I had pretty much made up my mind before posting that I was going to cut things off with him.  But people are dynamic, and I would be one prone to make a quick judgment and dismiss too quickly.  So, stopping to think about it more is a good check for me.

Thanks for the responses.


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## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Well, that was exactly my feeling.  I just wanted to get some outside perspectives to be sure.
> 
> I should also add that when he told me about it, he wasn't really nonchalant about it, he wanted to know what I felt about it and I was honest, and he said he appreciated me telling him that.  Like I mentioned, we talk about our spiritual lives, and he talks constantly about how he wants to grow into a better Christian constantly, and also how he's going about doing that.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you shared - I always have questions and this one that you brought up gives me lots to think about and consider.  So, thank you for posting it!


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## aribell (May 23, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> The bolded is where the imagination can get one into trouble. This person has not given (based on what's been shared so far) ANY INDICATION of being marriage minded toward nicole. But that's what we (Christian) women do.... we put all our focus and energies on ONE prospect while our male counterparts will have more than one sister on the roster (prospects). And there's nothing wrong with having prospects...as long as all minds are clear about it...no intention to deceive. And technically, if the brother has NOT said anything directly about wanting exclusivity and subsequent plans about said exclusivity, then has he intended to deceive?
> 
> I'm just sharing it like this because I'VE BEEN THERE. And I put myself through so much unnecessary drama because of it. Now I've learned that I don't have to guess about a prospects affections/inclinations toward me.


 
Okay, some clarifications might be in order.  I started to write them, but took it out since I didn't want to get sidetracked into my love life!  We have talked explicitly about exclusivity.  He has said that he wants a relationship with me.  No, I didn't have to ask him if that's what he wanted, he brought it up.    The particular issue at hand happens to be distance...so another conversation needs to be had about how to go about that.  Yes, he waits too long to do anything about it, which irritates the heck out of me and reflects poorly on him.  For that reason alone I would have left him alone.

Also, I know the church is full of hypocrites, and that church involvement doesn't a disciple make.  I tried to convey that this really isn't the case here.  He walks the Christian walk...but there are a couple of very specific things that I've taken issue with.

Just want to be clear!


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## aribell (May 23, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> The bolded is where the imagination can get one into trouble. This person has not given (based on what's been shared so far) ANY INDICATION of being marriage minded toward nicole. But that's what we (Christian) women do.... we put all our focus and energies on ONE prospect while our male counterparts will have more than one sister on the roster (prospects). And there's nothing wrong with having prospects...as long as all minds are clear about it...no intention to deceive. And technically, if the brother has NOT said anything directly about wanting exclusivity and subsequent plans about said exclusivity, then has he intended to deceive?
> 
> I'm just sharing it like this because I'VE BEEN THERE. And I put myself through so much unnecessary drama because of it. Now I've learned that I don't have to guess about a prospects affections/inclinations toward me.


 
ETA: Also, and I hesitate somewhat to say it, but I feel that honesty is the better way. I have more than once decided that I would cut off my friendship with this person because he was not quite up to my standards, and on two separate occasions, my sister's pastor, who has a prophetic ministry, spoke to me specifically about my feelings _without me mentioning anything whatsoever_ and told me essentially that yes, this man was the one, that I was being judgmental, that good things take work (contrary to my belief that they should come together easily), and that marriage was not on the horizon just now, but rather friendship. This woman has some kind of gift, as she read my heart like a book and told me everything about myself, things that not even the closest person to me knows. Also, I have dreams that come to pass, and had one very soon after we became friends that clearly involved marriage. _And,_ my best friend (a very godly woman) mentioned before anything ever even started between this guy and I that she thought I should marry him. At that point, he was just a mutual acquaintance and I had said nothing to her yet of a developing interest. Given the multiplicity of confirmations (particularly those outside of myself), I would feel silly questioning it at this point. 

Trust me, I've done all I can to let this thing go, but it keeps following me. The Lord is not the author of confusion, and yet the only way I can interpret these things is similar to what Chicacanella mentioned earlier, that if this man is truly who the Lord has, then He will work it out. It would be one thing if he were an unbeliever or completely living in sin, as we know that the Lord would never ordain something that is completely against his commandments, i.e. marrying an unbeliever. I will be the very first to say how crazy Christian women can be about saying a certain man is their husband, and I've tried to find wisdom, but I can't say I understand what I'm supposed to do when there are _plenty_ of less mature/obedient Christians than this man, but I'm still saying that he doesn't quite meet _my_ standards. Add to that the specific word of a former pastor of mine that I would _always_ feel a greater sense of conviction about the things of the Lord than my husband and all this leads me to think that maybe this is it and I need to chill.  

Sorry if I've confused the issues here. I guess I asked about dealbreakers when I really should have asked about interpreting the Lord's voice and what to do when what you believe is God ordained does not look like what you expected. I don't pretend to have the wisdom to know the answer to this.


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## kayte (May 23, 2009)

that's what I had in mind.



> not switching your automatic car seats back
> bottom toothpaste squeezer
> toilet seat up
> moody upon waking




but I maintain there ARE honest guys....
who not only are honest _but value honesty as a means of bonding..of intimacy_ who have a vested interest in sharing the loaded stuff to get even closer to their soulmate
and really risk..themselves....
that's deep

that's the man I want  

sneaking onto a porn site...is not honest..
and I don't even want a man who is drawn to that
in anyway or fantasy..etc...

I know there's some tolerance for it...
and it's seen by some as harmless  entertainment
and the wife can join in ..so it's becomes a "couple's activity" 
or she looks the other way 
in the dont ask dont tell syndrome

blah blah blah 

_YUCK_

it's infidelity.....and a def deal breaker


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## kayte (May 24, 2009)

wow..Nicole I hadn't even read your above post... I was responding to gnv-
but how interesting you mention honest 

I was going to say in response to this 



> he didn't get drunk during (though he was "less than sober"),



that's the definition of and from  someone who was drunk...but in denial
less than sober..means 
NOT sober
which = drunk



> I guess I asked about dealbreakers when I really should have asked about interpreting the Lord's voice



I think they are the same... Nicole
The Spirit of God handwrites our desires and dealbreakers
HIS voice in your dealbreakers 
re-read them... they are good ones

but with this man...he's not perfect...clearly
but for now..let go of his Christian label... for just a moment
it's trapping you...

do find him distasteful or an annoyance or dislike him?
then end the friendship...if it's meant to be and he grows up 
anything is possible..

but if the person is contributing negative energy and stress  
let him go....

do you see him as brother who would not be your mate..
but a friend on some level you can connect with?
just not in every or most things?  
then connect on the level...you can!
be it bible study or church ..etc

do you think you should be considering a courtship with him
{you don't have to answer}...given all the human logic
even so it does not seem like either of you
are there..or available for that _...with each other _today

the confusion is coming from trying to force an outcome to be confirmed RIGHT NOW 
and frustration that signs have not shaped themselves into 'proper equation'
but God's ways are not ours.....

Live in the day.....because biblically that's what we do
you don't care for him in a help-meet way though you feel you should....
so release THAT...expectation perhaps
rather than ...perhaps the person and keep asking for wisdom


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## PaperClip (May 24, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> ETA: Also, and I hesitate somewhat to say it, but I feel that honesty is the better way. I have more than once decided that I would cut off my friendship with this person because he was not quite up to my standards, and on two separate occasions, my sister's pastor, who has a prophetic ministry, spoke to me specifically about my feelings _without me mentioning anything whatsoever_ and told me essentially that yes, this man was the one, that I was being judgmental, that good things take work (contrary to my belief that they should come together easily), and that marriage was not on the horizon just now, but rather friendship. This woman has some kind of gift, as she read my heart like a book and told me everything about myself, things that not even the closest person to me knows. Also, I have dreams that come to pass, and had one very soon after we became friends that clearly involved marriage. _And,_ my best friend (a very godly woman) mentioned before anything ever even started between this guy and I that she thought I should marry him. At that point, he was just a mutual acquaintance and I had said nothing to her yet of a developing interest. Given the multiplicity of confirmations (particularly those outside of myself), I would feel silly questioning it at this point.
> 
> Trust me, I've done all I can to let this thing go, but it keeps following me. The Lord is not the author of confusion, and yet the only way I can interpret these things is similar to what Chicacanella mentioned earlier, that if this man is truly who the Lord has, then He will work it out. It would be one thing if he were an unbeliever or completely living in sin, as we know that the Lord would never ordain something that is completely against his commandments, i.e. marrying an unbeliever. I will be the very first to say how crazy Christian women can be about saying a certain man is their husband, and I've tried to find wisdom, but I can't say I understand what I'm supposed to do when there are _plenty_ of less mature/obedient Christians than this man, but I'm still saying that he doesn't quite meet _my_ standards. Add to that the specific word of a former pastor of mine that I would _always_ feel a greater sense of conviction about the things of the Lord than my husband and all this leads me to think that maybe this is it and I need to chill.
> 
> Sorry if I've confused the issues here. I guess I asked about dealbreakers when I really should have asked about interpreting the Lord's voice and what to do when what you believe is God ordained does not look like what you expected. I don't pretend to have the wisdom to know the answer to this.


 
Ok... so noted.... 

With all this said, I encourage you to be even more mindful about everything concerning this situation so that you will know without a shadow of a doubt which way the Lord would have you to go. Because with all the prophecies, words of exhortation, etc. that are spoken out, the enemy hears things as well and can make something (or someone) look SO CLOSE to the real thing....

...so with all those words that have gone forth concerning this thing, put them on the shelf and let the Lord have His perfect work.... Because if it's the Lord orchestrating this thing, He doesn't need any help...and, dare I say, when it's the Lord, there's peace all around it....


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