# Marshae Jones: Woman Charged With Manslaughter For Suffering Miscarriage After Getting Shot



## OhTall1 (Jun 27, 2019)

This seems like it should be in The Onion...

*Woman Charged With Manslaughter for Suffering Miscarriage After Getting Shot*
By Hannah Gold
@togglecoat





Photo: Pleasant Grove Police Department
On Wednesday, 27-year-old Birmingham, Alabama resident Marshae Jones was indicted by a Jefferson County grand jury for manslaughter, AL.com reported. *Her alleged crime? In 2018, Jones, who was five months pregnant at the time, was shot in the stomach, resulting in a miscarriage.* Jones will reportedly be transferred to the Jefferson County Jail and held on a $50,000 bond.

Police say the shooting occurred in December during a dispute between Jones and another woman, 23-year-old Ebony Jemison, over the man who impregnated Jones. At the time of the shooting, police alleged that Jones started the argument and that Jemison shot her in self-defense. Shockingly, Pleasant Grove police Lt. Danny Reid said at the time, “The investigation showed that the only true victim in this was the unborn baby. It was the mother of the child who initiated and continued the fight which resulted in the death of her own unborn baby.”

Reid reiterated his contempt for Jones and total disregard of the emotional and physical pain she suffered in the ordeal, saying, “Let’s not lose sight that the unborn baby is the victim here. She had no choice in being brought unnecessarily into a fight where she was relying on her mother for protection.”

The ultimate goal of the anti-abortion movement is to define fetuses as humans with full constitutional rights — a concept known as “fetal personhood.” Already, 29 states have “feticide” laws on the books, which make it equivalent to murder to end a pregnancy at any point (outside of legal abortion). And overzealous prosecutors in states like Alabama and Indiana are acting on this, investigating women who’ve suffered miscarriages for “murder” or “manslaughter” on the suspicion as they intentionally harmed the fetus. As the New York _Times_ points out, this allows for a dystopian reality in which any pregnancy loss is a potential crime, in which “a pregnant woman would cease to exist as an autonomous person. Her womb would become a legal battleground.”

Under the logic of fetal personhood, women have been prosecuted for miscarrying after car accidents and suicide attempts, and even for taking Valium while pregnant and going on to deliver a perfectly healthy baby. Women of color are disproportionately the subjects of this state scrutiny; what happened to Jones is sadly not an anomaly. As Amanda Reyes, executive director of the Yellowhammer Fund, an abortion fund in Alabama, put it: “Today, Marshae Jones is being charged with manslaughter for being pregnant and getting shot while engaging in an altercation with a person who had a gun. Tomorrow, it will be another black woman, maybe for having a drink while pregnant. And after that, another, for not obtaining adequate prenatal care.”


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## SlimPickinz (Jun 27, 2019)

WTF


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## guyaneseyankee (Jun 27, 2019)

Who did Charlemagne wind up giving Donkey of the day to?


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## awhyley (Jun 27, 2019)

And so it begins . . . .


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## Zuleika (Jun 27, 2019)

Over a freakin man..... 








> Police say the shooting occurred in December during a *dispute* between Jones and another woman, 23-year-old Ebony Jemison, *over the man* who impregnated Jones.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 27, 2019)

awhyley said:


> And so it begins . . . .


Pretty much.

_. Shockingly, Pleasant Grove police Lt. Danny Reid said at the time, “The investigation showed that the only true victim in this was the unborn baby. 
_
Women who support or expressed apathy towards anti abortion measures didn't read the fine print of letting the men regulate their wombs for them.  I keep telling ya'll babies are commodities with a monetary value whether it sounds good or not.


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## thefineprint (Jun 27, 2019)

This is horrible


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## SoopremeBeing (Jun 28, 2019)

Granted she shouldn’t have been fighting while pregnant, the fact that she was shot in the stomach all five times sounds more personal than basic self defense.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 28, 2019)

The fact that this story hasn't shook black women across social media let's me know folks don't realize the poop storm has arrived and is raining directly on our heads.


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## Ms. Tarabotti (Jun 28, 2019)

SoopremeBeing said:


> Granted she shouldn’t have been fighting while pregnant, the fact that she was shot in the stomach all five times sounds more personal than basic self defense.



She could shot her in the arm or leg, but no she went straight for that baby- defending herself. 

All over a no account man who probably already has another chick pregnant for him.


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## LdyKamz (Jun 28, 2019)

Funny thing is, that helpless unborn baby would have been born and grown into first a young black child and then a black adult that this officer obviously doesn't care about anyway. Only in the womb can a black person get "justice" it seems. This whole situation is unreal.

What happened to the shooter?


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## NaturalEnigma (Jun 28, 2019)

What in the world. So you telling me she going to jail cause SHE got shot in the stomach while pregnant and her baby died. She didn't shoot herself somebody else did. Their logic for her going to jail doesn't make any sense. She is a victim, who cares if she started the fight.


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## chocolat79 (Jun 28, 2019)

She needs a good lawyer.


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## ThirdEyeBeauty (Jun 28, 2019)

LdyKamz said:


> Funny thing is, that helpless unborn baby would have been born and grown into first a young black child and then a black adult that* this officer obviously doesn't care about anyway. Only in the womb can a black person get "justice" it seems.* This whole situation is unreal.
> 
> What happened to the shooter?


It happens ALL.THE.TIME.  People act like they care about the child who would eventually become an adult.  No, they care about the unborn.  There are thousands and thousands of children in the utmost extreme form of dysfunctional households and the same people who claim they care about the unborn do not give a care in reality.


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## dancinstallion (Jun 29, 2019)

LdyKamz said:


> Funny thing is, that helpless unborn baby would have been born and grown into first a young black child and then a black adult that this officer obviously doesn't care about anyway. Only in the womb can a black person get "justice" it seems. This whole situation is unreal.
> 
> What happened to the shooter?



The shooter was released after the grand jury refused to indict her.  Grand jury said pregnant lady was the aggressor and kept trying to fight the shooter. Grand jury says the pregnant lady should have tried to remove herself from the altercation but instead she put herself and her child in harms way and started the fight.


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## sheanu (Jun 29, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> The shooter was released after the grand jury refused to indict her.  Grand jury said pregnant lady was the aggressor and kept trying to fight the shooter. Grand jury says the pregnant lady should have tried to remove herself from the altercation but instead she put herself and her child in harms way and started the fight.


They lack empathy. They could have just brought her up on assault charges but anyone would empathy would say "hmm... she lost her child. Maybe that's more than enough?". Instead they did neither and sought to throw the book at her using the highest possible charges. 

Sometimes when I hear/read about the injustices we face during police shootings, arrests and just in the legal system at large I wonder what do they really see when they see us. What goes through their minds when they make these choices?


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## Evolving78 (Jun 29, 2019)

Crackers Phinn said:


> The fact that this story hasn't shook black women across social media let's me know folks don't realize the poop storm has arrived and is raining directly on our heads.


The fact that Alabama is a predominantly black state and the government is trying to shut down planned parenthood and get rid of abortion services should have black women shaking. A lot of employers aren’t paying for estrogen therapy treatments that work well for women anymore either. The Depo shot and Mirena is expensive out of pocket. They might pay for pills still, since women aren’t consistent with taking them.. 
they are trying to choices and options away from  away from women. And that means keep them barefoot and pregnant, basically turning women back into dependents.


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## Evolving78 (Jun 29, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> The shooter was released after the grand jury refused to indict her.  Grand jury said pregnant lady was the aggressor and kept trying to fight the shooter. Grand jury says the pregnant lady should have tried to remove herself from the altercation but instead she put herself and her child in harms way and started the fight.


So they will have a prisoner now? Gotta increase the prison population somehow....


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## Evolving78 (Jun 29, 2019)

ThirdEyeBeauty said:


> It happens ALL.THE.TIME.  People act like they care about the child who would eventually become an adult.  No, they care about the unborn.  There are thousands and thousands of children in the utmost extreme form of dysfunctional households and the same people who claim they care about the unborn do not give a care in reality.


They don’t care about the unborn. They care about making sure the person stays in an oppressed state of life and being.


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## SoopremeBeing (Jun 29, 2019)

I have my own conspiracy theory, regarding this anti-abortion nonsense, but I’ll refrain.


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## Laela (Jun 29, 2019)

I'm inclined to believe the anti-abortion movement  is based on efforts to replenush the white race not to protect Black babies...the browning of America  is a real threat for many
I doubt that Black women are' factored into the equation...so they'll likely be the only ones criminalized...Alabama is setting  the precedent  it seems..


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## Evolving78 (Jun 29, 2019)

Laela said:


> I'm inclined to believe the anti-abortion movement  is based on efforts to replenush the white race not to protect Black babies...the browning of America  is a real threat for many
> I doubt that Black women are' factored into the equation...so they'll likely be the only ones criminalized...Alabama is setting  the precedent  it seems..


I think black women being forced to have unwanted children is an incentive, as well. I believe everybody is factored into the equation for various reasons.


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## NaturalEnigma (Jun 29, 2019)

SoopremeBeing said:


> I have my own conspiracy theory, regarding this anti-abortion nonsense, but I’ll refrain.



Come On Share it.  



Laela said:


> I'm inclined to believe the anti-abortion movement  is based on efforts to replenush the white race not to protect Black babies...the browning of America  is a real threat for many
> I doubt that Black women are' factored into the equation...so they'll likely be the only ones criminalized...Alabama is setting  the precedent  it seems..



I was talking to my brother and he said he thinks these anti abortion laws are because the generation of millennials are not getting married nor having babies as much as the previous generations. These anti abortion laws are a way to force women to have children. Women are more independent then ever and are seeing that marriage and having babies are not necessary to live full and meaningful lives, but the government doesn’t like that. I read an article that said politicians appeal to families if there aren’t that many families out there, it will be hard for them to appeal to individuals with unique ideas, personalities and lifestyles. It’s also harder to create polices and laws that center around families if there aren’t any. This antiabortion nonsense is all a stint to keep the family unit intact, but it’s stupid, it’s just going to create a whole bunch of single family households, but I guess to them it’s a win becuase technically it’s still a family.


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## LdyKamz (Jun 29, 2019)

Laela said:


> *I'm inclined to believe the anti-abortion movement  is based on efforts to replenush the white race not to protect Black babies*...the browning of America  is a real threat for many
> I doubt that Black women are' factored into the equation...so they'll likely be the only ones criminalized...Alabama is setting  the precedent  it seems..


I agree with the bold but I also think we are factored into the equation more than people think. Black women will be forced to have more children with less support which will keep black people poor and under the thumb of white people OR we can go to prison for illegal abortions or out of our control miscarriages which will still keep us under the thumb of white people. I agree that the original idea was probably how they can gain power but that is never a conversation you have without wondering how to keep your competition under you. Trust and believe they are thinking equally long and hard about how they benefit and how we don't when making these decisions. If there were more benefits to us there would be some rethinking.


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## Everything Zen (Jun 29, 2019)

sheanu said:


> They lack empathy. They could have just brought her up on assault charges but anyone would empathy would say "hmm... she lost her child. Maybe that's more than enough?". Instead they did neither and sought to throw the book at her using the highest possible charges.
> 
> Sometimes when I hear/read about the injustices we face during police shootings, arrests and just in the legal system at large I wonder what do they really see when they see us. What goes through their minds when they make these choices?



I finally realized what they see when it happened to me in the corporate setting and I literally broke down sobbing into FH’s arms. I will never forget that day. I went to counseling. We’re not humans.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 29, 2019)

This isn’t about keeping black women barefoot and pregnant, it’s a way to create a bw specific pipeline to prison because the need for labor at $0.23/hr isn’t being met by just the bm population.


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## dicapr (Jun 30, 2019)

Ms. Tarabotti said:


> She could shot her in the arm or leg, but no she went straight for that baby- defending herself.
> 
> All over a no account man who probably already has another chick pregnant for him.



Supposedly she didn’t shoot the woman intentionally in the stomach. She shot a warning shot into the ground. The bullet  ricocheted off the ground and hit the pregnant  woman in the stomach. I’m guessing that story was easy to prove which is why the first woman did not get charged.

The whole thing sets a dangerous standard. If you run a red light and get into a car accident can you be charged if you miscarry?  Or if you don’t follow doctor’s orders and go on bed rest can you be charged?  The whole idea is insane.


ETA: This is why the guns equal courage idea needs to die. Scared people obtaining guns and ready to shoot at any provocation is a bad look.


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## [email protected]@ (Jun 30, 2019)

Idk y'all. While there's has always been a push to keep black women oppressed, I feel like this isn't the person to cape for. Even if she didn't get shot, this woman put herself in harm's way, meaning in that moment she was ok with her baby being harmed.

Did she not know she was pregnant? If that the case my pov would be different.

On the broader topic, this is definitely a case of unnecessary harsher penalties and racism.


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## Everything Zen (Jun 30, 2019)

^^^ Seriously?


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## OhTall1 (Jun 30, 2019)

Everything Zen said:


> ^^^ Seriously?


Yeah, I don't get the whole mentality that she put herself in harm's way.  People are acting like she went skydiving or robbed a bank.  Yeah, she was arguing with someone but the idea that any reasonable person would consider a verbal disagreement as endangering yourself seems like a stretch.


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## Laela (Jun 30, 2019)

Right... and forced pregnancies will lead to increased child-support orders and more income for the government.. we can't forget about child support.



Evolving78 said:


> I think black women being forced to have unwanted children is an incentive, as well. I believe everybody is factored into the equation for various reasons.


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## dancinstallion (Jun 30, 2019)

OhTall1 said:


> Yeah, I don't get the whole mentality that she put herself in harm's way.  People are acting like she went skydiving or robbed a
> bank.  Yeah, she was arguing with someone but the idea that any reasonable person would consider a verbal disagreement as endangering yourself seems like a stretch.



So you don't think going to fight someone is putting  yourself in harm's way? And you are pregnant? 

Every body should know Going into a physical fight that someone may get hurt. 
It was proven that she Marshae was the instigator and started the physical  fight,  it wasn't an argument or verbal disagreement, it was a physical fight.


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## dancinstallion (Jun 30, 2019)

Marshae didn't come to argue, no no no, she came to beat Ole girl's behind over messing with her man. Marshae knew that even while pregnant that she could beat Ebony down, so Marshae didn't wait to give birth to lay them hands on Ebony. Ebony knew this too and that is why she shot Marshae. Simple. 

Raise your hand if you are willing to take a beat down from a pregnant lady from the hood that's fighting you over a man? 
￼ anybody?


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## Brwnbeauti (Jun 30, 2019)

Evolving78 said:


> The *fact that Alabama is a predominantly black sta*te and the government is trying to shut down planned parenthood and get rid of abortion services should have black women shaking. A lot of employers aren’t paying for estrogen therapy treatments that work well for women anymore either. The Depo shot and Mirena is expensive out of pocket. They might pay for pills still, since women aren’t consistent with taking them..
> they are trying to choices and options away from  away from women. And that means keep them barefoot and pregnant, basically turning women back into dependents.


Alabama 60+% white.


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## Evolving78 (Jun 30, 2019)

Brwnbeauti said:


> Alabama 60+% white.


Thank you for the correction. I misread something.


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## Dellas (Jun 30, 2019)

Evolving78 said:


> The fact that Alabama is a predominantly black state and the government is trying to shut down planned parenthood and get rid of abortion services should have black women shaking. A lot of employers aren’t paying for estrogen therapy treatments that work well for women anymore either. The Depo shot and Mirena is expensive out of pocket. They might pay for pills still, since women aren’t consistent with taking them..
> they are trying to choices and options away from  away from women. And that means keep them barefoot and pregnant, basically turning women back into dependents.




America has a history of liking to watch the suffering of others. Blacks have always been the target. Now, Mexican immigrants.  I knew that it wasn't just good enough to turn them away at the border but they would be jailed for a profit and harmed then blamed for their own suffering.


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## Brwnbeauti (Jun 30, 2019)

Evolving78 said:


> Thank you for the correction. I misread something.


A lot of the south seems black but is not.


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## dicapr (Jun 30, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> Marshae didn't come to argue, no no no, she came to beat Ole girl's behind over messing with her man. Marshae knew that even while pregnant that she could beat Ebony down, so Marshae didn't wait to give birth to lay them hands on Ebony. Ebony knew this too and that is why she shot Marshae. Simple.
> 
> Raise your hand if you are willing to take a beat down from a pregnant lady from the hood that's fighting you over a man?
> ￼ anybody?



That’s what I got out of the situation. Ebony has been messing with Marshae’s man and she probably knew she was looking for her. As far as the altercation if she was really suffering a beat down I don’t think she would have fired a “warning” shot. I think she got pushed and pulled out a gun. I level of fearing for you life in a stand your ground state is pretty low.


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## [email protected]@ (Jun 30, 2019)

Everything Zen said:


> ^^^ Seriously?





OhTall1 said:


> Yeah, I don't get the whole mentality that she put herself in harm's way.  People are acting like she went skydiving or robbed a bank.  Yeah, she was arguing with someone but the idea that any reasonable person would consider a verbal disagreement as endangering yourself seems like a stretch.



Seriously.

I am from the ghetto. I KNOW women like this. They don't give two gotdamns about themselves, their kids or anyone else. My auntie is damned 70 still out there throwing hands.

As much as I care for others, there is nothing i, or even we can do to pump esteem into some people. She literally helped create this situation by attempting to assault someone. It did not just happen to her. Oh, and when you do bail them out, literally and figuratively...what happens? They end up back in trouble. Some people are beyond hard headed. It is damn near a lifestyle.

Play stupid games. Win crappy prizes. As for as govt policy goes...I have my ear to the streets. But wont be caping for Marshae.


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## HappilyLiberal (Jun 30, 2019)

OhTall1 said:


> Yeah, I don't get the whole mentality that she put herself in harm's way.  People are acting like she went skydiving or robbed a bank.  Yeah, she was arguing with someone but the idea that any reasonable person would consider a verbal disagreement as endangering yourself seems like a stretch.



:::sigh:::

This was not just an argument.  She STARTED a physical altercation with someone while she knew she was pregnant.


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## LdyKamz (Jun 30, 2019)

What this girl did was stupid but the punishment isn't just "harsh" it's unjust and doesn't make any sense. It's a slippery slope to do something like this, even if to teach her a lesson. And for people to give a "well that's what happens" attitude is weird to me because _it isn't what's supposed to happen_. If she was charged with assault on this woman since she tried to fight her then yeah, that's what happens because _that's _what's supposed to happen. 

This? This manslaughter charge in an instance like this is the start of something else and it's not about caping for her but for myself because next, it'll be me for some other asinine reason. It's scary to think about.


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## HappilyLiberal (Jun 30, 2019)

LdyKamz said:


> This? This manslaughter charge in an instance like this is the start of something else and it's not about caping for her but for myself because next, it'll be me for some other asinine reason. It's scary to think about.



^^^^^THIS, I agree with...  I just, for once, want US to start making better decisions!


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## Reinventing21 (Jun 30, 2019)

See, as a a mom, who for an entire year prepped my body to be at its healthiest BEFORE I started doing the deed to get pregnant lol...well...

For me, this type of woman is likely the same kind that will make sure her man has before her child...that will do anything for a man before thinking about her child. I have seen it in real life.

Regarding the manslaughter charge, while it is tragic and unfortunate that this is a Black woman, I do think she bears culpability as she went looking for, initiated and  continued the altercation willingly all while knowing she was pregnant. Even if a gun was not involved, deliberately getting into a physical fight while pregnant is...I can't even...

ETA: Just to be clear: I am not in favor of the government regulating women's bodies. I just don' t think that this particular case is an example of that really.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 30, 2019)

LdyKamz said:


> And for people to give a "well that's what happens" attitude is weird to me because _it isn't what's supposed to happen_. If she was charged with assault on this woman since she tried to fight her then yeah, that's what happens because _that's _what's supposed to happen.
> 
> This? *This manslaughter charge in an instance like this is the start of something else and it's not about caping for her but for myself because next, it'll be me for some other asinine reason. It's scary to think about.*



While black women were at the women's marches talking about "what about our sons" we weren't reading the room about what was coming our way.  Marshae Jones is in jail for having a miscarriage because that is the new normal.  _*The crime she committed was the miscarriage, everything else is just commentary. *_

BW who suspect that they may become pregnant or have a dependency on Plan B better take a good look at what's going on.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/cultu...eorgias-abortion-law-mean-women-who-miscarry/

Those who think that the idea of police investigating miscarriages seems outlandish may be surprised to learn it already happens. In 2016, _The New York Times_ reported that a woman who miscarried two fetuses at 24 weeks was charged with “abuse of a corpse,” a class C felony that carries a 3-10 year prison sentence in Arkansas. Her bail was set at $50,000 and she's still awaiting trial. In New York, a woman who was not wearing her seatbelt during a car crash, which the jury felt caused her unborn fetus to die, was sentenced up to nine years in prison.

The ruling was thrown out by New York’s high court as they noted that it could be applied to a pregnant woman doing anything that could potentially endanger a fetus, from having a glass of wine to shoveling snow.

Another woman in Virginia was sentenced to five months in jail after she gave birth to a stillborn at home. She was charged with concealing a dead body despite making the quite reasonable claim that, since the fetus was never alive, it "cannot be dead.”


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## NaturalEnigma (Jun 30, 2019)

But maybe she fought the girl because she was pregnant and hormonal. I found this definition below online of hormonal changes when pregnant. Her lawyer could argue because she was hormonal she acted irrationally. I know a lot of ladies who said they either fought or almost fought their husbands when they were pregnant. If I know you’re messing with my man I’m going to be upset, add hormones to it and I’m going to be crazy upset. I think she fought her becuase she didn’t think she’d fight back becuase she was pregnant. It’s the equivalent of beating up a handicap or old lady. They are off limits. She just messed with the wrong person who didn’t care. 

*Hormonal* Changes
*Anger* when *pregnant* can be credited to the fluctuating *pregnancy hormones*. The *hormonal* changes during *pregnancy* may also trigger regular mood swings, ultra-sensitivity, strong and intense feelings.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jun 30, 2019)

What color do ya'll think this woman is by her name?

Stomach pains woke Keysheonna Reed late one night last December. She climbed into the bathtub, hoping she would not wake any of the other nine people living in her small home in eastern Arkansas. Within minutes, she’d delivered twins, a boy and a girl. Both babies were born dead, the medical examiner would later determine. Their mother — 24 and already the mother of three — panicked. She found an old purple suitcase, put the bodies inside and got into her car. She “began to pray and just drove,” she said, according to a court affidavit, eventually leaving the suitcase on the side of County Road 602.

This personal tragedy was soon heightened by a legal one: When the suitcase was found several weeks later, the Cross County Sheriff’s Office, understandably, began an investigation and asked the public for information.

Ms. Reed turned herself in. An autopsy was performed, confirming that the babies had died in the womb. No illegal substances were found in their bodies. “Please pray for all the officers and people involved,” the sheriff, J.R. Smith, asked in a statement. Ms. Reed was charged with two counts of abuse of a corpse, a felony in Arkansas carrying a minimum sentence of three years and up to a decade in prison. A judge set bail at $50,000, a sum more than twice the per capita income for Cross County. Ms. Reed still awaits trial.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/28/opinion/abortion-pregnancy-pro-life.html

Repeat after your auntie Crackers:* The crime is the miscarriage.*


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## dancinstallion (Jul 1, 2019)

Crackers Phinn said:


> What color do ya'll think this woman is by her name?
> 
> Stomach pains woke Keysheonna Reed late one night last December. She climbed into the bathtub, hoping she would not wake any of the other nine people living in her small home in eastern Arkansas. Within minutes, she’d delivered twins, a boy and a girl. Both babies were born dead, the medical examiner would later determine. Their mother — 24 and already the mother of three — panicked. She found an old purple suitcase, put the bodies inside and got into her car. She “began to pray and just drove,” she said, according to a court affidavit, eventually leaving the suitcase on the side of County Road 602.
> 
> ...



Okay Auntie 
I hear you but do you think she would have went to jail if she called the ambulance when she gave birth in the tub? All that carrying the bodies around and leaving them on the side of the road just makes her look guilty.

The part about not wanting to wake the others up while giving birth reminds me of the lady that killed her kids outside so she didn't wake the husband.

She already had three kids so she knew what she was doing. This isn't a good example either.


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## dancinstallion (Jul 1, 2019)

The idea of this is scary. I feel it is only going to target poor women though. Texas' law begins at conception but they are not out here locking women up for having miscarriages.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jul 1, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> Okay Auntie
> I hear you but do you think she would have went to jail if she called the ambulance when she gave birth in the tub? All that carrying the bodies around and leaving them on the side of the road just makes her look guilty.
> 
> The part about not wanting to wake the others up while giving birth reminds me of the lady that killed her kids outside so she didn't wake the husband.
> ...



I never had 2 dead babies fall out of me but I can see  how it might have somebody not quite thinking right.  There's a ton of coulda shoulda woulda's in this case but the coroners determined the babies were stillborn with no sign of drug abuse or physical trauma but Keysheonna still sitting in jail awaiting trial.


dancinstallion said:


> The idea of this is scary. I feel it is only going to target poor women though. Texas' law begins at conception but they are not out here locking women up for having miscarriages.



They haven't started yet.  It's coming though.


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## dicapr (Jul 1, 2019)

LdyKamz said:


> What this girl did was stupid but the punishment isn't just "harsh" it's unjust and doesn't make any sense. It's a slippery slope to do something like this, even if to teach her a lesson. And for people to give a "well that's what happens" attitude is weird to me because _it isn't what's supposed to happen_. If she was charged with assault on this woman since she tried to fight her then yeah, that's what happens because _that's _what's supposed to happen.
> 
> This? This manslaughter charge in an instance like this is the start of something else and it's not about caping for her but for myself because next, it'll be me for some other asinine reason. It's scary to think about.



Thank you!  People are reacting to her bad behavior rather than the implication of the charges. She is guilty of assault but they neglected to pursue that charge. They simply want to use this case as a back door way to establish a legal ruling for personhood of a fetus. People have to start looking at the full picture.


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## LivingInPeace (Jul 1, 2019)

This is what y’all Christian fundamentalists wanted. Women are not people. We’ve always been secondary to men. Now we’re secondary to fetuses. Let’s see what’s next:
A pregnant woman is found to be at fault in a car accident. Let’s charge her with child endangering.
A pregnant woman gets into a fight with her husband and leaves to go home to her parents. Let’s charge her with kidnapping.
You better pay attention.


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## Brwnbeauti (Jul 1, 2019)

Crackers Phinn said:


> What color do ya'll think this woman is by her name?
> 
> Stomach pains woke Keysheonna Reed late one night last December. She climbed into the bathtub, hoping she would not wake any of the other nine people living in her small home in eastern Arkansas. Within minutes, she’d delivered twins, a boy and a girl. Both babies were born dead, the medical examiner would later determine. Their mother — 24 and already the mother of three — panicked. She found an old purple suitcase, put the bodies inside and got into her car. She “began to pray and just drove,” she said, according to a court affidavit, eventually leaving the suitcase on the side of County Road 602.
> 
> ...


Say it again. 
There was a case study years ago on Atlanta news about those accidental deaths caused by guns in the home. When a white kid shoots a sibling, parent etc- nothing happens. Black kid shoot someone and here come the charges. These laws will be quite arbitrary and will *not *be applied fairly and will create cheap prison labor- even if it’s temporary because these young girls can’t make bail.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Jul 1, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> Okay Auntie
> I hear you but do you think she would have went to jail if she called the ambulance when she gave birth in the tub? All that carrying the bodies around and leaving them on the side of the road just makes her look guilty.
> 
> The part about not wanting to wake the others up while giving birth reminds me of the lady that killed her kids outside so she didn't wake the husband.
> ...




I agree, why did she go in the bathtub and not call the ambulance, sounds like she intended to do harm to the babies if they had been born alive


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## Reinventing21 (Jul 1, 2019)

@NaturalEnigma I hadn't considered hormonal explanation, but yes that definitely could have been a factor which makes this case even sadder.

After reading @LdyKamz and @Crackers Phinn , I can see why this case needs to be viewed as a violation of women's rights especially as it relates to minority women, poor women being used to set the precedent for further violations.


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## Kanky (Jul 1, 2019)

Crackers Phinn said:


> I never had 2 dead babies fall out of me but I can see  how it might have somebody not quite thinking right.  There's a ton of coulda shoulda woulda's in this case but the coroners determined the babies were stillborn with no sign of drug abuse or physical trauma but Keysheonna still sitting in jail awaiting trial.
> 
> 
> They haven't started yet.  It's coming though.


A few years ago a congressman in VA tried to pass a law that a woman who miscarried has to notify the police and save the “product of conception” for inspection. They were basically demanding bloody pads and tampons be turned over to cops. Flushing the toilet could get you jail time. 

This article blames it on ignorance, but I knew at the time that it was malice. This law essentially made miscarriages a crime to be investigated. There were a lot of GOP voting people who thought it was a good idea. 
https://www.minnpost.com/second-opi...riages-reveals-ignorance-about-womens-health/


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## LdyKamz (Jul 1, 2019)

*The ruling was thrown out by New York’s high court as they noted that it could be applied to a pregnant woman doing anything that could potentially endanger a fetus, from having a glass of wine to shoveling snow. *

And something like this from one of @Crackers Phinn previous posts is what I'm talking about. The charge is scary because either way, whatever the circumstances that day with Ms. Marshae Jones, she was going to get charged for the miscarriage of that baby. The girl could have instead come to her door to fight her and just gave her one quick stomach punch and it's likely she still would have been charged. Reason? She didn't shut the door fast enough or she answered the door in the first place.

Those examples posted above are all attempts to gain footing to be able to outright outlaw the death of any unborn child (how?!). In the cases posted, it's easy to make a legal argument for the reasons they should be charged, until everyone starts to go along and then there doesn't have to be a reason for a sound legal argument other than the baby died while the mother was carrying it. And then you're in jail for getting accidentally pushed and knocked down by a rambunctious kid (possibly your own!) in the supermarket while minding your own pregnant business and miscarrying.


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## Kanky (Jul 1, 2019)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> I agree, why did she go in the bathtub and not call the ambulance, sounds like she intended to do harm to the babies if they had been born alive


Maybe she thought they were Braxton Hicks? My doctor told me to drink water and relax when I had some contractions and she was right. 

That woman obviously freaked out after the miscarriage.


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## meka72 (Jul 1, 2019)

I don’t disagree with the general sentiment here, that the Alabama case is out of proportion. However, I see the case you referenced a little differently given the charge of “abuse of a corpse.” 

When my aunt was in early 20s, she hid her full term pregnancy and threw the baby in a dumpster. She was eventually arrested. She pleaded to something (can’t remember but it was probably something similar to “abuse of a corpse”), in part, because the medical examiner couldn’t determine whether the baby was born alive. My aunt said that it was not. She spent 6 months in jail. 



Crackers Phinn said:


> What color do ya'll think this woman is by her name?
> 
> Stomach pains woke Keysheonna Reed late one night last December. She climbed into the bathtub, hoping she would not wake any of the other nine people living in her small home in eastern Arkansas. Within minutes, she’d delivered twins, a boy and a girl. Both babies were born dead, the medical examiner would later determine. Their mother — 24 and already the mother of three — panicked. She found an old purple suitcase, put the bodies inside and got into her car. She “began to pray and just drove,” she said, according to a court affidavit, eventually leaving the suitcase on the side of County Road 602.
> 
> ...


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## RUBY (Jul 1, 2019)

meka72 said:


> I don’t disagree with the general sentiment here, that the Alabama case is out of proportion. However, I see the case you referenced a little differently given the charge of “abuse of a corpse.”
> 
> When my aunt was in early 20s, she hid her full term pregnancy and threw the baby in a dumpster. She was eventually arrested. She pleaded to something (can’t remember but it was probably something similar to “abuse of a corpse”), in part, because the medical examiner couldn’t determine whether the baby was born alive. My aunt said that it was not. She spent 6 months in jail.



What happened to your aunt? Did she go on to live a fulfilling life?


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## Crackers Phinn (Jul 1, 2019)

meka72 said:


> I don’t disagree with the general sentiment here, that the Alabama case is out of proportion. However, I see the case you referenced a little differently given the charge of “abuse of a corpse.”
> 
> When my aunt was in early 20s, she hid her full term pregnancy and threw the baby in a dumpster. She was eventually arrested. She pleaded to something (can’t remember but it was probably something similar to “abuse of a corpse”), in part, because the medical examiner couldn’t determine whether the baby was born alive. My aunt said that it was not. *She spent 6 months in jail*.


Can she vote?


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## [email protected]@ (Jul 1, 2019)

How can we push back on these potential regulations?


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## meka72 (Jul 1, 2019)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Can she vote?


I think she can because she claims that she voted for PBO. But she likes to lie so I don’t know lol.


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## meka72 (Jul 1, 2019)

RUBY said:


> What happened to your aunt? Did she go on to live a fulfilling life?


I love my aunt but she’s not the sharpest tool on the tool shed. Lol. She is, and always has been, a member of Team Bad Decisions.

ETA: Sorry. I don’t really know how to answer your question honestly. She lives her life in a manner no one else in our branch of the family lives.


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## SoopremeBeing (Jul 1, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> Marshae didn't come to argue, no no no, she came to beat Ole girl's behind over messing with her man. Marshae knew that even while pregnant that she could beat Ebony down, so Marshae didn't wait to give birth to lay them hands on Ebony. Ebony knew this too and that is why she shot Marshae. Simple.
> 
> Raise your hand if you are willing to take a beat down from a pregnant lady from the hood that's fighting you over a man?
> ￼ anybody?



Well no, but I also wouldn’t shoot her in the stomach 5 times either.

That’s a risky scenario you pose....everyone has the right to defend themselves, but it get murky when you have to defend yourself against a pregnant woman. Even pushing her could potentially hurt the baby. And then they’d try to nail you for manslaughter if something did happen.

We cannot ignore the fact that pregnancy is a very vulnerable time for a woman. From the moment you become pregnant to the minute you give birth. You could literally be doing NOTHING and have a miscarriage....it happens more often than it should.

Even if it ended up being a basic fistfight, any blows that Marshae would have received, coupled with her increased heart rate, could have affected her baby negatively as well.

Just saying.


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## straightlovely (Jul 1, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> The idea of this is scary. I feel it is only going to target poor women though. Texas' law begins at conception but they are not out here locking women up for having miscarriages.


 

So, are you of the opinion that it doesn't matter because they're poor women?! What are you saying??  This is a ridiculous statement.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jul 1, 2019)

[email protected]@ said:


> How can we push back on these potential regulations?


It's too late.  That's why I said black women ought to be shook. 

The pro lifers been building legal precedents to get this outcome for decades.  It took a steady stream of funding and single minded people, keeping their eye on the ball to do so.   Black folks ain't got that kind of focus, money or time.  This is what pushback is going to look like at this stage.



Odds are Marshae Jones or a similar case is going to the Supreme Court which is now majority conservative and staunchly Pro-Life.  The south has always been a lost cause, the rest of the red states will follow, when the Supreme Court overturns Roe V. Wade, then women living in the coasts and blue states will be  right along with everybody else.


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## dancinstallion (Jul 1, 2019)

straightlovely said:


> So, are you of the opinion that it doesn't matter because they're poor women?! What are you saying??  This is a ridiculous statement.



Of course it matters. The women that this is targeting and it should matter the most to, don't care and aren't worried about this at all!! 

So what about my statement is ridiculous? Nevermind don't answer. Because this whole topic and the fact that Marshae is in jail is ridiculous.  

Carry on but besides this hair board I don't see or hear any black women talking about this issue.


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## RUBY (Jul 1, 2019)

meka72 said:


> I love my aunt but she’s not the sharpest tool on the tool shed. Lol. She is, and always has been, a member of Team Bad Decisions.
> 
> ETA: Sorry. I don’t really know how to answer your question honestly. She lives her life in a manner no one else in our branch of the family lives.



No worries. I just always wonder what happens to the people who make those type of decisions and if it has a lasting effect on their lives. 

There have been a couple of stories I've heard of recently of babies being left in carrier bags and dumped, one in a dumpster and the other in a park. Both children are alive. Then there was another story of a baby's body being found in an airplane toilet. It was blocking the toilet. In all three cases I wonder what the women did / do next?


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## Ms. Tarabotti (Jul 2, 2019)

RUBY said:


> No worries. I just always wonder what happens to the people who make those type of decisions and if it has a lasting effect on their lives.
> 
> There have been a couple of stories I've heard of recently of babies being left in carrier bags and dumped, one in a dumpster and the other in a park. Both children are alive.* Then there was another story of a baby's body being found in an airplane toilet. It was blocking the toilet*. In all three cases I wonder what the women did / do next?



How can you give birth in a airplane toilet and it not be noticed? Did the woman have a 5 minute labor where it just flew out her body with no blood or umbilical cord attached to it?


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## straightlovely (Jul 2, 2019)

dancinstallion said:


> Of course it matters. The women that this is targeting and it should matter the most to, don't care and aren't worried about this at all!!
> 
> So what about my statement is ridiculous? Nevermind don't answer. Because this whole topic and the fact that Marshae is in jail is ridiculous.
> 
> Carry on but besides this hair board I don't see or hear any black women talking about this issue.



ok


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## RUBY (Jul 3, 2019)

Ms. Tarabotti said:


> How can you give birth in a airplane toilet and it not be noticed? Did the woman have a 5 minute labor where it just flew out her body with no blood or umbilical cord attached to it?



I don't know. It happened in South Africa

https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/21/abandoned-foetus-discovered-planes-toilets-moments-take-off-10025853/


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## Southernbella. (Jul 3, 2019)

A woman charged with manslaughter after she was shot and lost her unborn baby will not be prosecuted, officials said on Wednesday.

The indictment against Marshae Jones stemmed from a fight, and subsequent shooting, in Pleasant Grove in December.

At Wednesday’s press conference, Bessemer Cutoff District Attorney *Lynneice Washington said there will be no further legal action against Jones.

"As I have previously stated, this is truly a disturbing and heartbreaking case. An unborn child was tragically lost, and families on both sides of this matter have suffered,’’ Washington said. “Nothing we do today or in the future will change that reality.”

“The issue before us is whether it’s appropriate to try to hold someone legally culpable for the actions that led to the death of the unborn child,’’ she said. “There are no winners, only losers, in this sad ordeal.”

"After reviewing the facts of this case and the applicable state law, I have determined that it is not in the best interest of justice to pursue prosecution of Ms. Jones on the manslaughter charge for which she was indicted by the grand jury,’’ Washington said. “Therefore, I am hereby dismissing this case, and no further legal action will be taken against Ms. Jones in this matter.”*


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## Southernbella. (Jul 3, 2019)

This is the DA







The last DA that declined to prosecute a black person over something stupid was also black. It's not always the case but black faces in high places CAN be the difference between freedom and worse.


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## Crackers Phinn (Jul 3, 2019)

Marshae caught the Black Lady DA, Hail Mary pass.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/03/us/pregnant-alabama-woman-manslaughter-indictment/index.html
From 2017


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## nyeredzi (Jul 3, 2019)

It's a relief the charges were dismissed, but the fact that she was charged at all has me shook.


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## Kanky (Jul 3, 2019)

nyeredzi said:


> It's a relief the charges were dismissed, but the fact that she was charged at all has me shook.



They are testing the waters with unpopular minorities in less sympathetic circumstances. If there hadn’t been media attention and public outcry she’d be on her way to prison.


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## [email protected]@ (Jul 3, 2019)

My mom predicts that she gonna go and try to beat the girls behind anyway.


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## meka72 (Jul 3, 2019)

I hope this unfortunate incident will cause some positive change in Marshae.


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## HappilyLiberal (Jul 4, 2019)

meka72 said:


> I hope this unfortunate incident will cause some positive change in Marshae.



Not holding my breath!


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## Crackers Phinn (Jul 19, 2022)

Crackers Phinn said:


> The fact that this story hasn't shook black women across social media let's me know folks don't realize the poop storm has arrived and is raining directly on our heads.





Crackers Phinn said:


> It's too late.  That's why I said black women ought to be shook.
> 
> The pro lifers been building legal precedents to get this outcome for decades.  It took a steady stream of funding and single minded people, keeping their eye on the ball to do so.   Black folks ain't got that kind of focus, money or time.  This is what pushback is going to look like at this stage.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, this comment aged well.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Jul 27, 2022)

Crackers Phinn said:


> Unfortunately, this comment aged well.


Too well.


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