# I Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore... (Vent)



## Poohbear (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm sure some of you know what I've been going through with my father (who happens to be the pastor of the church I attend). I am getting fed up and turned off.  This morning, I told him I did not want to go to church anymore. Yesterday, he had a testimony period during service and he was disappointed that I did not give a testimony. He said that Satan was keeping me in my seat for not giving God glory.  I give God glory all the time! Not just at church. And I also feel like you don't always have to voice your testimony. You can give a testimony through your actions. I have given a testimony before, just not yesterday.  I'm also someone that is humble and I do not like to boast or brag about stuff, but at the same time, I still praise God for what He has done in my life.

And he has a problem that I do not give money when everyone else does.  See, I count money and I sometimes put my money in when I'm in the room where we count money. And I have given money during offering period. And I also tithe once a month.  He has a problem with that.  

He's also had a problem with me reading my Bible during church.  He said I should be paying attention to service. I do! And he always tries to use the Bible against me when all I'm doing is helping out the church with my heart and it's putting a damper on my spirit.  On Sunday mornings, I don't even feel like I'm there to worship God. I'm just there going through a 2 hour program that my dad sets up. I teach the youth, I handle the finances for the church, I run the projector for the power point slides during service, and help out in certain ministries when I can, but it's not enough for my dad. I'm accused of not loving God enough and I'm sick of it! 

My dad feels like I'm the evil one and I just hate him. I don't hate him. I love him and I'm sure he loves me, but he is too controlling and like a dictator at that church. I feel like the church is a cult. I feel like it's all about him when it comes to that church.  He asked me what was wrong and I told him. I try not to complain but if you ask what's wrong, I'm going to tell you. And if you don't like it or agree, then I have nothing else to say.  That's why I just told him I don't want to go to the church anymore. 

I don't feel like it's a church of God. I feel like it's my dad's church. I know he's the pastor and overseer of the church, but he is not God or the Head of the church. Jesus Christ is the Head of the church. And the comments he makes sometimes makes it seem like he thinks he's God. He said that people are being disobedient to God if they do not do everything that he (my dad) tells them to do.  For example, he said for everyone in the church to give over and beyond 10% of their gross income, and if they didn't do that, that means they are being disobedient to God.  Last time I check, the Bible says to give from your heart freely whether it's more or less than 10% of your income without being force or pressured or grudgingly.

But maybe I'm wrong. I just don't know anymore.  I try my best to live for God and show that I love God and believe in His Son Jesus.  It makes me feel like I want to just stay in a room somewhere like a nun and just read the bible and pray all day since everything I do is against the Word.  I just don't get it.

And I'm sure some of you know what I was going through last year when I felt like a borderline Atheist.  I feel like I've gotten back to a good point now in my life and I do not want to go back feeling like an Atheist. And my dad was part of the reason why I had Atheist-like feelings.  Please pray for me as I continue to pray for myself. I know the prayers from some of you ladies here at LHCF helped me in the past.  My spirit really feels troubled right now. 

And if anyone can give me any advice or suggestions about what to do in this situation, please feel free to give it.  I know some of you have even mentioned that I should leave and find a new church home regardless of the fact that he is my father and that my mother and siblings go to that church too.  My dad thinks I'm the only one that has a problem but my mother and siblings do too, they're just not as open about it to him.

Well I could go on about this... I'm done venting.  God bless you all.


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## SND411 (Sep 7, 2009)

I will pray for you!

I KNOW EXACTLY how you feel. I go to this church in Maryland that I feel is not doing anything for me spiritually. Yet my parents make me go in order to "save face." So its not about authentically worshipping God but letting other families know your family is "religious" enough to come every Sunday. Not only that, but sometimes when I don't go to church and my dad does one day, my dad will come back home BRAGGING about how he went to church and all of us "heathens" did not go. All the while, he forgets what the sermon was about and goes downstairs to watch CNN/football the rest of the day. 

I don't mean to say these negative things about my parents, but sometimes I feel like they don't understand my spiritual needs.


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## blazingthru (Sep 7, 2009)

Poohbear I am soo sorry you are going through all of this I know how you feel,  My father is a minister too not as strict as your dad but we lived a different life when we came home so it was hard to be sitting up in church and agreeing to things we didn't really do at home, plus inside I didn't (me personally) didn't agree with the teaching I mean from 9 years old I struggled. I know my father was a good man because I heard from others in the community how fair he was to them and he was never a person to yell and curse them out and they respected him.  So I know he was trying in his own way to live the right life but that belief was not for me. I left the church and went on my own.  Now that I have stepped way out of the field I am sure it upset my father since i was raised both baptist and methodist but am now SDA way different doctrine. I still respected my parents but I am grown and I make my own decisions and what they believe did not agree with me and there is no problem with you leaving and going your own way.  We all have to travel our own paths in life, thats what God requires of us. that we make our own decisions and we serve him with a Glad heart and with our own desires to do so. He doesn't want forced worship and forced giving and force obedience.  If I were you I would study out those things and present them to your father as lovingly as possible and then let him know your moving on.   God bless you on your journey as I believe that is the choice your going to make and I believe that will probably be a blessing for your family in the long run..


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 7, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> IMy dad thinks I'm the only one that has a problem but my mother and siblings do too, they're just not as open about it to him.
> 
> Well I could go on about this... I'm done venting.  God bless you all.



How old are you?  Are you in college yet?  If so and can be supported away from home, I'd do that.  It's time you moved on, if you're of age.  Also, your mother and siblings are feeling oppressed?  Have their aired their complaints to another pastor of the church?  They should definitely stand up.  Where's the accountability in the church?  Who is over is and is there some organization you can contact to do an investigation of the church?  For example, is it under baptist leadership?  There should be organizations to whom they are accountable.

Atheist feelings.  Um, not from what you write.  Anybody who accuses you of being anti-G-d because you see things differently that are supported by scripture is short-sighted.  And as for performing religious duties so others can marvel...well, that's all the reward they will get.


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## discobiscuits (Sep 7, 2009)

wow. i don't have minister parent(s) but i feel for you. i've stopped attending church (but i'm still a member on paper). i'm in support of you. don't let others judge your heart when only God can do that.


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## Blossssom (Sep 7, 2009)

Aw... I'm sorry you feel this way *hug*


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## Poohbear (Sep 7, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> How old are you?  Are you in college yet?  If so and can be supported away from home, I'd do that.  It's time you moved on, if you're of age.  Also, your mother and siblings are feeling oppressed?  Have their aired their complaints to another pastor of the church?  They should definitely stand up.  Where's the accountability in the church?  Who is over is and is there some organization you can contact to do an investigation of the church?  For example, is it under baptist leadership?  There should be organizations to whom they are accountable.
> 
> Atheist feelings.  Um, not from what you write.  Anybody who accuses you of being anti-G-d because you see things differently that are supported by scripture is short-sighted.  And as for performing religious duties so others can marvel...well, that's all the reward they will get.


I'm 25 years old.  I graduated college in 2006. I'm currently living at home with my parents. I just recently landed a job back in July and I'm in the process of saving up enough money to move out and get my own place.  

And yes, my mother feels tired about the church. My sister denies it and my brother notices the same problems.  

Our church is affiliated with Southern Baptist. I'm not sure who to contact as far as doing an investigation on the church.

And I agree with you.


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## beaux cheveux (Sep 7, 2009)

Whatever you do, you have to decide what is more important to you. If your dad is keeping you from receiving a spiritual blessing at the church you attend, I would consider attending service somewhere else.erplexed

I disliked the church my parents attended, the pastor was, ok...I'm not going to speak bad about a pastor. Let's just say he said a bunch of things I disagreed with, like not brushing your hair on the Lord's Day, or tying your shoes. And that there wouldn't be children in heaven. The people there seemed a bit flaky too, like they just went there to go somewhere once a week.erplexed And when they didn't bury my father cause he wasn't a part of _their _church, well, that was it for me.

I stopped going to church for a while. Became indifferent to God, pretty much agnositic. I still believed in the morals/standards in the Bible, thought it was _pretty good advice_, so I was a good person for the most part. I mean, the Bible was a great book to read, I guess, but I could not bring myself to _believe _in everything it said. I studied other religions just to get an understanding of the world, and I became very liberal in my thinking. I did very well in school, and I thought I was pretty smart. 

I sure was doing better than a lot of my friends that still went to church. I know a boy who became a baby-daddy. A girl who became a baby-mama at _fourteen_. An adulteress and her mister. A guy with STD. A a couple of people who just sat around after high-school. A lot of people who did drugs. Yep, all church folks, holy-rollers. Looking down on me because I didn't show up once a week, well at least I wasn't as messed up as they were. I saw them as judgemental, hypocrites. I knew a lot of them thought I stopped going to church, because they thought I was pregnant or had messed up---ha! Nope, sorry to disappoint guys.

But, I was not happy. I thought about things alot. I thought about death alot. Not that I wanted to die, per se, but what happens.  Then, thinking of my father---there. I thought, like Solomon, about the uselessness of life. No matter how hard one works, their situation is really isn't any better than the next person. We all die. I can see the appeal of fiction, of television, of money, anything really. It is an escape from the cold reality, that in the end you leave the way you were born. Why is death such a taboo subject? Is man really any better than the animals? 

It was a hard thought. I looked at the world around me, and I saw people going about their lives as if they'd live forever. I became obsessed with prolonging my life anyway I could. Still, there are accidents and tradgies one has to account for, how does one deal with that?

Slowly, I started to go to church again. Maybe twice or thrice a year, and not nesscarily on holidays.I went to a different church, and though I wouldn't say I made fellowship, I have recieved a blessing from what I heard, so I started to go more often. I came to the conclusion that no one can know everything there is to know in the world, and no one can convince me they do. So what if there was a God? Privately, on my own I started to read my Bible again, and even got a devotional. I realized that it wasn't the church people who were being judgemental---it was me. I thought so highly of myself, that I was better than them, smarter, more well-off, that I was _above_ a church service. The bible told a different story, no one can please God. It doesn't matter if you only sin once in your lifetime, or a million times, the wages of sin is death. In the end we are the same. No one is better than the next person.
At first it seemed so unfair. erplexed Then I realized that is when you need God's grace, and his Son, Jesus Christ. We can never be good enough. We weren't meant to be. We need God. That is why the law can never save you.

So, long story short,I decided to pick myself up and head on down to the church with a bible in my hand. I pray more. I was never very religious and I'm still not.  But religion is not a requirement to go to heaven. All the religion in the world can not save you if you don't have Jesus. I am still so messed up. I'm am building myself up slowly. Hey, I still look down on others, and say mean things, and can be judgemental. I am still working on it, with God's help. 

I realize the hard way, that you can't help yourself, you can't change yourself. I tried all my life to be a better person, but human effort is nothing. You need Jesus to perform a supernatural change on you. The bible says that it is like the wind, no one know where it comes from and no one knows where it is going. But when the change comes, it will be geniuine. John 3:8

Sometimes I still doubt. I don't even feel worthy to post on this forum, cause a lot of you seem like super-Christian, and_ I am not_. I am cleaning up my language, trying to listen and read more positive things instead of Stephen King and Lil Wayne. But the initial change should be in your heart, first, and later on God will work with you on the rest. 
*Summary:* Don't look to human beings, they will fail you every time, instead look to God.

I don't know what came over me to write out such a long response. I just started typing and it all came out. I'm asking for continued prayer for myself, and a friend who is going through a hard time.


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 7, 2009)

beaux cheveux said:


> Whatever you do, you have to decide what is more important to you. If your dad is keeping you from receiving a spiritual blessing at the church you attend, I would consider attending service somewhere else.erplexed
> 
> I disliked the church my parents attended, the pastor was, ok...I'm not going to speak bad about a pastor. Let's just say he said a bunch of things I disagreed with, like not brushing your hair on the Lord's Day, or tying your shoes. And that there wouldn't be children in heaven. The people there seemed a bit flaky too, like they just went there to go somewhere once a week.erplexed And when they didn't bury my father cause he wasn't a part of _their _church, well, that was it for me.
> 
> ...



I just HAD to come into CF just to say.....thank you for this post!


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## firecracker (Sep 7, 2009)

beaux cheveux said:


> Whatever you do, you have to decide what is more important to you. I would consider attending service somewhere else.erplexed
> 
> 
> So, long story short,I decided to pick myself up and head on down to the church with a bible in my hand. I pray more. I was never very religious and I'm still not.  *But religion is not a requirement to go to heaven. All the religion in the world can not save you if you don't have Jesus.* I am still so messed up. I'm am building myself up slowly. Hey, I still look down on others, and say mean things, and can be judgemental. *I am still working on it, with God's help. *
> ...


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## Renewed1 (Sep 7, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> *And I'm sure some of you know what I was going through last year when I felt like a borderline Atheist.* I feel like I've gotten back to a good point now in my life and I do not want to go back feeling like an Atheist. And *my dad was part of the reason why I had Atheist-like feelings. *




THE BOLDED SPEAK VOLUMES!!  


> *I know some of you have even mentioned that I should leave and find a new church home regardless of the fact that he is my father and that my mother and siblings go to that church too.*


 
Ask God, if this is the church for you and if not to guide you to your new church home.  Ask God to give you and your family peace about the separation (if that's the case).  

I'm praying for you.


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## DDTexlaxed (Sep 7, 2009)

Talk to him and tell him your heart.  He may not understand what you are going through. If that doesn't work, then go to another church. Your spiritual needs are not being met. If your dad views you as satan, that is not good.


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## Bunny77 (Sep 7, 2009)

I hope it all works out Poohbear!

Also, like I said back in your old thread, I think you're incorrectly using the term atheist. Atheist means you do not believe in any higher powers/gods PERIOD. I know you believe in God, and your faith in God has not wavered... you are simply questioning the church where you attend and your father's actions.

I don't even see you as having atheist-like feelings... so if I were you, I'd dump the "a" word from your thoughts and focus more on how you're going to work through this issue. I agree that it's best to move out so that you can make your own choices, including finding a church where you are spiritually nourished.


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## Highly Favored8 (Sep 7, 2009)

beaux cheveux said:


> Whatever you do, you have to decide what is more important to you. If your dad is keeping you from receiving a spiritual blessing at the church you attend, I would consider attending service somewhere else.erplexed
> 
> I disliked the church my parents attended, the pastor was, ok...I'm not going to speak bad about a pastor. Let's just say he said a bunch of things I disagreed with, like not brushing your hair on the Lord's Day, or tying your shoes. And that there wouldn't be children in heaven. The people there seemed a bit flaky too, like they just went there to go somewhere once a week.erplexed And when they didn't bury my father cause he wasn't a part of _their _church, well, that was it for me.
> 
> ...


 


Excellent Post!.


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## Highly Favored8 (Sep 7, 2009)

(((((((Hugs))))))

God will make a way for you PoohBear. He will. He knows your heart.


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## SvelteVelvet (Sep 7, 2009)

Just want to tell you, you are not alone. I've been where you are, (not as far as my parents but not wanting to go to church). Always follow your heart and spirit over what any man, even your father, intends for you. God is ordering your steps, you see things others may not see and it disturbs your spirit enough to take action. Rarely does God intend a person to stay in one place forever, and when a place becomes oppressive it isn't His will for us to feel this way. We are to feel free, most especially when serving Him. 

Hopefully you can get out of the situation of dealing with your father as soon as possible.


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## Sharpened (Sep 7, 2009)

You are going to come through this with His guidance, stronger and better equipped than before. He has opened your eyes and inspired you to explore His Word even more. What is the worst that could happen if you stepped into another sanctuary? 

This may be a small comfort (if at all), but you may be the wake-up call your father, family, and perhaps others in the church need to shake out of that legalistic malaise the church has slipped into.


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## Ms Lala (Sep 7, 2009)

I think you already know the answer in your heart of hearts.  It sounds like that is not the right church for you.  When you are in the right place you KNOW it.  It is a place where will grow and mature in HIM as well as bless others with your gifting.  I understand how you feel because the church I grew up in turned me off for a long time, I am a pk and stopped going to the church my Dad is still a minister in (not because of my Dad).  I had to do be where GOD had for me to be and I knew it wasn't there.  My growth was stunted when I was there and now I am flourishing.  The church I was in b4 seemed to be focused on everything except the love of God and God is love.  I don't hear much love in any of what you posted about your current situation.  I pray that you will be led to the church God has for you.


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2009)

Poohbear, I'm so grieved about this.  I'm praying for the healing of the relationship between you and your father.   No matter who's right or who's wrong, this man is still your father.

The devil revels in this.  he revels in the midst of divisions, especially among families, be it Father and son, Father and daughter, Man and Wife. But what he is reveling in all the more, is that he has you in his corner, speaking out agaInst a man who is serving God, but even more, against a man who is your father. 

Your Dad is not the one who's gotten to you; satan has.  satan has set you up and good, and you've fallen for it; you've fallen for one of the biggest traps against all PK's (Pastor's Kids).  Poohbear, you are a target that satan has set his aim against only to destroy you and it is not the fault of your Father. 

Look at some of the lives of others who have been so deceived by satan's offense and *it is satan's offense*, *not* your Dad's. 

All satan wants to do is to lead you out of umbrella of God's protection by way of offense and a spirit of rebellion, so that he can sink his lies and his grip into you even more.    

   Uh -Uh...  Your father is not the blame neither the culprit.  You have a better chance of life 'with' your father than without him.  

Think not?  Hmmmph!  You've already pronounced your destination more than once.  Outside of Church you'll be on your own doing what your flesh wants to do for there will be no cover to restrain you.   Anyone who leaves a Church out of rebellion (and it is) ends up searching for other answers to other gods.  History of others has already laid out the path way with markers for others to follow.  The 'trip' is guaranteed.   Whatever you choose, do not blame your Dad.    

As humans we 'all' have offenses in and out of Church, we 'all' have offenses. Daddie is not the blame. 

Out of all of your 'oughts' and hurt feelings that you 'feel' regarding your Father, is there not one that God has not given you the power and the Authority over,  rather than come into a public forum, where you know full well, there are many waiting to 'attack' your father with far more anger and discrepancies than you have prersonally?   

Babygirl, words have power.  There are preditors vulchers in here and out there waiting to devour 'you' (yes, you) and your father, for no other reason than him being a man of God and you as his daughter; for if he goes down, you will go down with him; and if for no other reason than as you being the sower of the seeds to his demise.    

They are cursing him and 'you' with their words of disdain; it affects you as his seed, his off spring, his babygirl.    And they will continue to 'curse' him; not in support of you, but because what you've shared feeds into their already predisposed hatred of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and for any man who stands upon an Altar and preaches Jesus.  

The nods of agreement that you receive here are not nods of life, but of death to your Dad and no matter how much has happened between you and him, he does not deserve to be devoured in a den full of lions who have no love for him nor for you.  Even those with the same experience, are adding their anger to your anger which is against the blessings of God.

He's your Daddie, only 'you' can make him or break him.  This is why you bear this cross.  No matter what he's done, you are gifted with the ability to pray around it and to be at peace with him.   If you believe in God, and I'm sure you do, have this thread deleted.   Allow the words of disdain to go no further.  God understands your hurts, God understands your vent.  But He will not agree that it be extended any further bringing forth more disparagement against your father.   

Don't put your Dad out here like this.  Neither one of you deserve it.  Not you, not him, not Jesus.  

I care Poohbear... :Rose:  

God always approves of Father / Child restoration.  

_And he shall turn the *heart of the Fathers to the children*, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.  (Malachi 4:6)_

_Peace and Blessings...  


_


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 7, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I'm praying for the healing of the relationship between you and your father....
> All satan wants to do is to lead you out of umbrella of God's protection by way of offense and a spirit of rebellion, ... Your father is not the blame neither the culprit.  You have a better chance of life 'with' your father than without him. ...  Anyone who leaves a Church out of rebellion (and it is) ends up searching for other answers to other gods. ....Out of all of your 'oughts' and hurt feelings that you 'feel' regarding your Father, is there not one that God has not given you the power and the Authority over,  rather than come into a public forum, where you know full well, there are many waiting to 'attack' your father with far more anger and discrepancies than you have prersonally?  ...Babygirl, words have power.  There are preditors vulchers in here and out there waiting to devour 'you' (yes, you) and your father, for no other reason than him being a man of God and you as his daughter; for if he goes down, you will go down with him; and if for no other reason than as you being the sower of the seeds to his demise.  ...They are cursing him and 'you' with their words of disdain; it affects you as his seed, his off spring, his babygirl.    And they will continue to 'curse' him; not in support of you, but because what you've shared feeds into their already predisposed hatred of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and for any man who stands upon an Altar and preaches Jesus.





Shimmie, I'm not understanding.  I thought she was discouraged but not actually seeking to leave Christ, just find a church home that does not wreak of "cult."  That wouldn't be leaving a church out of rebellion, right??  I agree that one must respect the parents, it's commanded.  But she's 25 years old.  She's an adult and will find her own way...maybe another church altogether.  How is that wedging rebellion between her and the father?  Hasn't her dad already made her feel less of a believer because she doesn't openly express herself in worship?  If I misunderstand, please correct me.  But I'm confused here.  

If she and her mother feel something is seriously wrong, maybe it's the father who needs to change?  If Christ is leading her elsewhere, wouldn't she know that more than anyone else?  If it turns out her father is misleading a congregation through religious abuses, she would be wrong to stay solely to preserve family honor.  Jesus brought a sword and that sword divides a household between those who will follow Him and those who will follow the world...and deception.  I hope and pray this is not the case for their sake and the sake of the many congregants.  

I certainly don't hope you think that people who advised her to move on with her life as a capable adult are encouraging her towards deception nor disrespect.  I think she found the perfect solution to posing this question to fellow believers rather than scandalizing her father through another congregant who would rat on her...and no solution.  We don't know her name nor where she lives and her question is valid IMHO because not everyone has good network resources.  Perhaps she could ask another unaffiliated pastor in that town???    

Well, my intention is to wish her to find peace and if it's not with that family situation, then she will walk it with Christ but not to deceive her or disdain her father.  But when someone brings up issues of church abuse or near abuse  and unkosher teachings, I think she's certainly right to ask other believers for counsel.  I mean absolutely no harm in this post.


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## Laela (Sep 7, 2009)

Hi, Pooh,

I hope things work out well for you...please stay encouraged in the Lord and try not to lean unto your own understanding. I agree with Shimmie this isn't your dad's doing but a trick by the enemy to discourage you from going to Church. 

Please don't let how you feel get you caught up in the "the holier-than-though" rhetoric. That's just a tool for the enemy. _*Something else is going on here and I ask that you seek God's face concerning your place in that church*_. I believe your faith is being tested.

It's very clear you love your dad and he loves you. What I think he's done is put you on a pedastal and that's not fair to you. People tend to do that sometimes, when they see you trying your best to live the life God wants you to live. Nothing you do will be good enough.

Stay encouraged, sis! 



Poohbear said:


> I'm sure some of you know what I've been going through with my father (who happens to be the pastor of the church I attend). I am getting fed up and turned off.  This morning, I told him I did not want to go to church anymore. Yesterday, he had a testimony period during service and he was disappointed that I did not give a testimony. He said that Satan was keeping me in my seat for not giving God glory.  I give God glory all the time! Not just at church. And I also feel like you don't always have to voice your testimony. You can give a testimony through your actions. I have given a testimony before, just not yesterday.  I'm also someone that is humble and I do not like to boast or brag about stuff, but at the same time, I still praise God for what He has done in my life.
> 
> And he has a problem that I do not give money when everyone else does.  See, I count money and I sometimes put my money in when I'm in the room where we count money. And I have given money during offering period. And I also tithe once a month.  He has a problem with that.
> 
> ...


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## Laela (Sep 7, 2009)

Excellent point..... 




GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> If she and her mother feel something is seriously wrong, maybe it's the father who needs to change?  *If Christ is leading her elsewhere, wouldn't she know that more than anyone else?  *If it turns out her father is misleading a congregation through religious abuses, she would be wrong to stay solely to preserve family honor.  Jesus brought a sword and that sword divides a household between those who will follow Him and those who will follow the world...and deception.  I hope and pray this is not the case for their sake and the sake of the many congregants.
> 
> I certainly don't hope you think that people who advised her to move on with her life as a capable adult are encouraging her towards deception nor disrespect.  I think she found the perfect solution to posing this question to fellow believers rather than scandalizing her father through another congregant who would rat on her...and no solution.  We don't know her name nor where she lives and her question is valid IMHO because not everyone has good network resources.  Perhaps she could ask another unaffiliated pastor in that town???
> 
> Well, my intention is to wish her to find peace and if it's not with that family situation, then she will walk it with Christ but not to deceive her or disdain her father.  But when someone brings up issues of church abuse or near abuse  and unkosher teachings, I think she's certainly right to ask other believers for counsel.  I mean absolutely no harm in this post.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 7, 2009)

I dunno, I seem to remember her saying in other threads that some of his teachings weren't quite right and she's mentioned twice or more that she feels it's cult-like or that he's kinda power hungry.  That's where my post is stemming from.  I don't mean to cause harm.


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Shimmie, I'm not understanding. I thought she was discouraged but not actually seeking to leave Christ, just find a church home that does not wreak of "cult." That wouldn't be leaving a church out of rebellion, right?? I agree that one must respect the parents, it's commanded. But she's 25 years old. She's an adult and will find her own way...maybe another church altogether. How is that wedging rebellion between her and the father? Hasn't her dad already made her feel less of a believer because she doesn't openly express herself in worship? If I misunderstand, please correct me. But I'm confused here.
> 
> If she and her mother feel something is seriously wrong, maybe it's the father who needs to change? If Christ is leading her elsewhere, wouldn't she know that more than anyone else? If it turns out her father is misleading a congregation through religious abuses, she would be wrong to stay solely to preserve family honor. Jesus brought a sword and that sword divides a household between those who will follow Him and those who will follow the world...and deception. I hope and pray this is not the case for their sake and the sake of the many congregants.
> 
> ...


 
GV, the real love and support for Poohbear comes not from speaking ill of her Father.  The words we speak about him, good or bad, fall back upon Poohbear.  A spiritual principle has been put into action here and we have to be very careful about that which we speak.    

The two of them are spiritually connected and tied to one another.  We have no idea what God has pruposed for Poohbear in connection to her Father and his ministry.     

Poohbear is speaking from hurt of which we have no knowledge of it's spiritual connection to her relationship with her Father.  There's a lot going on here and before I set my words against this man, I have to remember that they are also set against Poohbear.   

It's just that serious.  When satain goes after the 'head', he also seeks to destroy their seed, their off spring.    Each of us who love Poohbear, will love her Father too, and pray for him with a full heart and not speak one word of evil against him.   

Going to another Church is not healing the hurts between them.   They both need our love and prayers.  *And i'm not saying* that she should or should not attend another Church, that's between her and the Holy Spirit.  But 'solely' leaving is not going to be the resolution.  They Both need our love and prayers. 

As for him being associated with a cult...* NO !*   He may be speaking of things disagreeable, but he is not a cult.   This is her father, and it's up to us to encourage her for what God has called her to; which is to be reconciled to him in the fullness of love and God's peace.  

No one in this thread has a right to speak negative about her Dad.  Although she shouldn't, only She 'can', but they can't.   It's her Father and if we love her, we'll respect him as such, no matter what has been shared.  :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Sep 7, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> *If it turns out her father is misleading a congregation through religious abuses, she would be wrong to stay solely to preserve family honor. Jesus brought a sword and that sword divides a household between those who will follow Him and those who will follow the world...and deception. I hope and pray this is not the case for their sake and the sake of the many congregants.   *


 
For this reason alone,  be it true or untrue, we have to be all the more careful and pray for both Poohbear and her father.   

Already, this seems to be determined in your heart that this is true about this man.    Already, he's been tried and without a jury. 

And if it be true, this spirit will 'follow' her no matter where she goes and will manifest its self in her life in other relationships.  Whatever we judge upon Pooh's father is also judged upon her, unless it becomes reconciled and placed under the Blood of Jesus.  

To every cause there are many perceptions and only one Truth!  

By the spirit of God, I see something else in this man and it's not the evil that so many are quick to judge upon him.  And what he needs is serious prayer, not condemnation.  To condemn him, condemns his Legacy which again, includes Poohbear and the call God has upon her life.   They each deserve better.  :Rose:


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 7, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> *As for him being associated with a cult... NO !*   He may be speaking of things disagreeable, but he is not a cult.   This is her father, and it's up to us to encourage her for what God has called her to; which is to be reconciled to him in the fullness of love and God's peace.
> 
> *No one in this thread has a right to speak negative about her Dad*.  Although she shouldn't, only She 'can', but they can't.   It's her Father and if we love her, *we'll respect him* as such, no matter what has been shared.  :Rose:




I agree to the bolded but sometimes, respect means revealing where there might be some illness or difficulty.  Going from what she has revealed and what she feels in her spirit...other than being put on a pastor's pedestal...there were other things she mentioned in other threads leading many of us to consider that maybe his teachings are not right.  She mentioned cult, not us.  She mentioned it various times...so the fault's not ours...we're merely going by what she revealed.  Maybe there is something you're aware of in private communication the rest of us are not privvy to? I can only go by what is written here.  I wish she would come back in actually.  I know she's in pain...it's very evident.  

Everyone is encouraging her...to find her peace, from what I can see.   I see absolutely no one speaking negatively about her father.  It's a situation she has asked help on and, frankly, she's 25, not a child...time to move on whether she stays in that church or not.  There's a lot of pain caused in remaining for reasons none of us here know of.  And then to mention the unhappiness of the wife and siblings.  I can only hope they are all safe, from father to children.  

Respect of parent doesn't mean following them at that age.  We encourage her to find peace and spiritual strength according to what G-d is revealing to her to do and for family healing, however that will happen.  I get what you mean to say...but I wish you wouldn't condemn fellow believers that way.  It's hurtful.

I think the disagreement here is in how to seek help.  Doesn't the scripture say that the wise man will seek counsel?  She has done that.  Four of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel and knowledge...and we're to apply the spiritual to the physical aspects of life.  

She hasn't revealed who they are nor where they are, _simply the problem_.  Right?  We've all provided her with sound counsel from what I read, albeit different.  No one here has disrespected her father from what I can see so I'm not understanding who is the vulture leading her to deception and hatred and whatnot, used by satan.   I don't think any of us needed that condemnation... and I mean this with my heart... (as I keep re-editing this as not to cause harm) with perfect respect and asking you to please reconsider how that looks.  That hurts more than you realize and this is not the first time I've witnessed this kind of condemnation here on CF...it's really not, well, kind.  Those are  words that destroy.  We provide diff. solutions based on our comprehension and our experiences/personalities.  Because they differ doesn't mean one is satanic.:gotroasted:

Am we not fellow believers?  If I personally am not considered one, please show me where I err towards  deception  and I'll gladly consider your rebuke and correct teaching.  I'm hoping I misread and misunderstand what was written and what was meant by it.  

So, in a nutshell, she needed help regarding a situation whether familial or not and we jumped in to offer, according to what she revealed, ways to cope and/or move on as a healthy adult who remains faithful to G-d but who finds her own path to peace as all of us must do.  She's not atheist...but was made to feel she was moving towards one by incorrect teaching because of the examples she provided.  That's a religious abuse right there because there is no sound indication of agnosticism leading to atheism by her belief to keep her worship for the L-rd solely, rather than showiness. 

 She didn't call him names, she gave examples where she feels bad enough to be severly, entirely depressed over it.  This could be an intervention of some sort...  She's crying out for help. 

Respectfully submitted....so if I've overstepped boundaries...I'll retract my statement because truly, I mean no harm. 59th edit oy!  Thing is, there are more people in a similar situation out there who are lurking and if our advice is to stay put in a dysfunctional  situation and not seek to heal it by looking at it for what it is, analyzing and developing a strategy...we're not helping, we're enabling. 

 I think we emphasize demons too much and sometimes, common sense given from G-d is the cure when we're looking for supernatural miracles and rebukes.  Focus on G-d, not the devil.  And that is the reason I seek to know deeper this situation and that we all consider the advice we actually gave her.  There are others with situations who won't dare ask for fear but they still seek help.  Please forgive my verbosity in attempting to explain.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 7, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> For this reason alone,  be it true or untrue, we have to be all the more careful and pray for both Poohbear and her father.
> 
> *Already, this seems to be determined in your heart that this is true about this man.    Already, he's been tried and without a jury. *
> 
> ...




No, no, noooo, it was by her previous threads and posts.  Let me say that I had a wonderful and loving relationship with my father of blessed memory.  Just wonderful.  There's nothing I'm trying to project at all.  There is certainly Truth but we must find it.  It's not a feeling, it comes by understanding, wisdom, knowledge and counsel.  I'm feeling you on this!!!  We just go about it differently.  Believe me, I'm not offering she hurt her father intentionally. I have not condemned him, can only go by what she wrote.  I don't see how this is any diff. from any other situation one might have to ask advice on.  She asked specific questions.  LIke I said, only she knows the situation unless she's revealed something to you in private the rest of us are not aware of.  Just please don't call me a condemner and deceptionist and whatnot...that's not nice  or I'm going to have to call on the Knights of Columbus!!!!   hehe


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## SvelteVelvet (Sep 8, 2009)

Shimmie, I know you mean well, and I honestly don't see anyone in here who doesn't mean well. 

But a few things, from what she's shared she is not contemplating leaving her father's church out of rebellion towards the Lord. It is false to say that anyone who leaves A church begins to look to other gods for answers. This is an attitude that allows for judgement between humans, where people who have no issues in _their_ spirit to leave a church, look at others who may and point the finger and 'worry' about their salvation. Uh..The Lord does not dwell in one building. Praise God! The Word of God is not preached from one mouth. Thank you Jesus! It is common for followers to spiritually outgrow their leaders. Most especially 'leaders' who get caught up in their title and use it to have superiority and uplift themselves more than they uplift the message of Christ. Someone on this board said it best and I'm paraphrasing *"When you look to one person for the truth, the truth will be hidden. When you follow the truth ITSELF, it'll never be hidden" *

Many are anointed to preach the Gospel for a reason. There are many operating under the Holy Spirit and their teachings are on one accord, fashioned through each persons unique delivery, knowledge and experience, but follows the Word of God in truth. There are others operating under man-made doctrines and religious traditions that can be oppressive. For those that do not read and comprehend the Word of God themselves and instead allow anothers interpretation be the Word they understand can be lead to destruction and not even know it. For others who do take it upon themselves to see the Lord for wisdom and understanding and reading the Word, when it comes to following some MEN professing to be shepherds, it can become a struggle. Jesus's warning of false prophets and the many coming in His name is real.

The only person I will take at his Word is Jesus and He said, the *ONLY* way to the father is through Him. There is no where in the Bible that I know of where He says faithfulness and loyalty to one earthly man (of God) or one church would be the key to the Kingdom. For some of us, while we are here on Earth and grow as people and Christians, it can become a journey finding a 'home' to assemble in. 

I can go into depth about division of blood related family...but I wont. I will say that Poohbear can honor her father and her relationship as his daughter without being under his church leadership. She has shared alot and the encouragement she is receiving to follow HER spirit, which seems to be rooted and grounded in Christ, is not coming from Satan.


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## Poohbear (Sep 8, 2009)

Shimmie,

Thanks for your post, but *I totally disagree.* There's more to the story than what I have shared in this thread. This is just a snippet of what has transpired with my father.  I'm not about to sit through church and act like a robot with no mind of my own. I don't feel like myself at that church. It's not rebellion to stop going to his church. I'm not a little kid. I could find another church home. This man has put me down for years!!! Even before being a pastor. He became a pastor in 2005. And what you are telling me is the same thing my dad has said to me. He thinks it's Satan in me too and I disagree.  I do not have Satan in my heart.  

And like I said, I don't hate my father, I just dislike his ways and his verbal abuse and negative thinking. His negative thinking causes me to be negative. And I know for a fact that God does not want us to think negatively and to worry ourselves to death. I am not suffering for the cause of Christ. I am suffering for the cause of my father. He knick-picks at me about every single thing I do and not do when it comes to the church.  

When I come to church, I should feel comfortable, not like I'm on pins and needles. That is no way to live.  And just because I'm against my father does not mean I will be against other preachers. I haven't before. My dad is the one actually against every preacher and every church. He feels like his church is the holy church and the only church doing right by God. He feels like he's the best preacher in the world. I could go on about how he feels. I am not about to make my father my God because he is not, and you should know that.

And I do not feel like the ladies here are adding to my anger or adding to the fire with the experiences they have shared. I actually feel that it is helpful to hear that, not just because they've been through the same thing or know people who've been through a similar situation as me. I know that no one is perfect and I'm not trying to "throw my dad in the lion's den". He does right and wrong. But I want to live for GOD, for JESUS...not my earthly father or pastor. Yes, I am blessed to have him as my father, but he is a man and I cannot worship him and I cannot agree with everything he says or do if I feel like it is not right. And that's with anyone.


Shimmie said:


> Poohbear, I'm so grieved about this. I'm praying for the healing of the relationship between you and your father. No matter who's right or who's wrong, this man is still your father.
> 
> The devil revels in this. he revels in the midst of divisions, especially among families, be it Father and son, Father and daughter, Man and Wife. But what he is reveling in all the more, is that he has you in his corner, speaking out agaInst a man who is serving God, but even more, against a man who is your father.
> 
> ...


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## Poohbear (Sep 8, 2009)

DDTexlaxed said:


> Talk to him and tell him your heart. He may not understand what you are going through. If that doesn't work, then go to another church. Your spiritual needs are not being met. If your dad views you as satan, that is not good.


I have...several times. And each time I tell him my heart, he judges my heart as if I have the heart of Satan and it kills me. I do all this work for the church, I live a good life for Christ...yes, I sin just like anyone else, but at least I'm not out here doing drugs, prostituting, having tons of babies by different men, robbing, stealing, shooting, whatever, and I could go on! And I agree with you, my spiritual needs are not being met at that church period.



Bunny77 said:


> I hope it all works out Poohbear!
> 
> Also, like I said back in your old thread, I think you're incorrectly using the term atheist. Atheist means you do not believe in any higher powers/gods PERIOD. I know you believe in God, and your faith in God has not wavered... you are simply questioning the church where you attend and your father's actions.
> 
> I don't even see you as having atheist-like feelings... so if I were you, I'd dump the "a" word from your thoughts and focus more on how you're going to work through this issue. I agree that it's best to move out so that you can make your own choices, including finding a church where you are spiritually nourished.


Thanks for saying this. I think 'atheist' is the wrong term to use in this situation. Maybe 'wavering faith' or 'depressed spirit'? I'm not sure...I just know it's not a good feeling and it makes me have doubts and questions about motives and agendas of people in the church.



Nymphe said:


> You are going to come through this with His guidance, stronger and better equipped than before. He has opened your eyes and inspired you to explore His Word even more. What is the worst that could happen if you stepped into another sanctuary?
> 
> *This may be a small comfort (if at all), but you may be the wake-up call your father, family, and perhaps others in the church need to shake out of that legalistic malaise the church has slipped into*.


 
I hope so. It feels like I attend a brainwashed cult when I go to that church.




Ms Lala said:


> I think you already know the answer in your heart of hearts. It sounds like that is not the right church for you. When you are in the right place you KNOW it. It is a place where will grow and mature in HIM as well as bless others with your gifting. I understand how you feel because the church I grew up in turned me off for a long time, I am a pk and stopped going to the church my Dad is still a minister in (not because of my Dad). I had to do be where GOD had for me to be and I knew it wasn't there. *My growth was stunted* when I was there and now I am flourishing. The church I was in b4 seemed to be focused on everything except the love of God and God is love. I don't hear much love in any of what you posted about your current situation. I pray that you will be led to the church God has for you.


 Thank you Ms Lala. I feel like my spiritual growth is stunted, not necessarily gone. It like I do all this work for the church and trying to serve other people and I'm not getting spiritually blessed. I'm not being selfish or anything, it's just that I'm doing all this teaching of the youth all the time, I'm not getting taught myself. Even though I can read the Bible for myself, I have spiritual needs too. Nothing against my father's preaching, he can be repetitive and he gets off on other subjects that don't even pertain to the Bible. He'll get up there and start bragging about stuff and just blurting out his opinion about things.  I need the straight Word of God.


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## Poohbear (Sep 8, 2009)

Laela said:


> Hi, Pooh,
> 
> I hope things work out well for you...please stay encouraged in the Lord and try not to lean unto your own understanding. I agree with Shimmie this isn't your dad's doing but a trick by the enemy to discourage you from going to Church.
> 
> ...


Thanks Laela. I'm trying to trust in the Lord with all my heart, mind, and soul. The situation with my father is discouraging me from going to church big time. I just had to vent about it here. I'm tired of holding it in.  And I certainly don't feel "holier-than-thou". I know that I sin and fall short of God's glory at times. All Christians do.   And I also believe my faith is being tested as well. Everytime my dad speaks against me, it just makes me seek His word and read my Bible even more. See, y'all don't understand. My dad uses the Bible to fit his agenda. He'll twist the Word of God to fit his own opinions. I don't know how else to explain it but I know it's not right. And he uses the Bible to intimidate and force people to do what he wants them to do. And when he doesn't get his way from people, he either gets mad, frustrated, starts gossiping to other people about them and even judges their salvation. And I was talking to my sister about this and I think you're right about him putting me on this so-called pedestal. Anything I do is not good enough. And I feel like if I give in even more to what he wants me to do, he will get even more unappreciative and more controlling and I will lose myself in the process and my relationship with God will suffer.


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## Poohbear (Sep 8, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> GV, the real love and support for Poohbear comes not from speaking ill of her Father. The words we speak about him, good or bad, fall back upon Poohbear. A spiritual principle has been put into action here and we have to be very careful about that which we speak.
> 
> The two of them are spiritually connected and tied to one another. We have no idea what God has pruposed for Poohbear in connection to her Father and his ministry.
> 
> ...


 I haven't seen anyone speak negatively about my father in this thread. Only I have. I am venting and expressing what he has done and how I feel about him and how his words and actions have affected me spiritually as well as emotionally and psychologically. I cannot deny how I feel. And if you really want to know something, I'm not the only person that has felt this way about him and the church. And not just my immediate family either. There have been church members that have left the church because of certain issues.  It's not just me, and it's not just us.  And it's not like I said my dad is Satan or anything. My dad is saying that about me.

And Shimmie, I wasn't born yesterday and I'm not stupid or uneducated. I have a spirit of discernment about motives and agendas and opinions and attitudes or whatever. If I feel like the church is cult, that's how I feel. Even my brother has said the same thing. Even my cousins who came in town from Michigan said the same thing. And I didn't even provoke them to say it. They noticed it themselves without me even saying one word about my sentiments. 

Talking about my father just happens to be the main issue with my spiritual well-being since he is my father and my pastor at the current moment. Maybe Satan is attacking both of us, but at the same time, God is the one who is in control and will have the victory in this situation whether I stay at this church or go to another one. I know one thing for sure, I'm not about to stay there for the sake of pleasing my father.  I'm a Christian that has spiritual needs as well.


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## Poohbear (Sep 8, 2009)

*GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I*

Thank you for your posts! You are right. 

And I haven't shared anything in private with Shimmie about anything regarding this issue with the church and my father.

Even if this man was not my father, I would feel the same way.

Plus, I don't feel this church is a fit for me in other areas too. For instance, there are no other people I can really relate to that are my age in that church except for my brother and sister. Everyone else is either much older or much younger.  Yes, I know you can relate to people of different ages but I feel like it's important to have Christians from your church that you can fellowship with outside of the church.

Plus, there are other things that have gone wrong in our church with other members and our family that I have had problems with. It's not just my dad, however, he is the main issue as far as my spiritual well-being and my role in the church. And yes, I know all churches have their problems or whatnot. I am the type of person that can forgive, let go, and let God, but I am human and I do have a tolerance level and I have a mind and an intuition of my own.


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## Prudent1 (Sep 8, 2009)

Poohbear,
I am and have been praying for your situation. Keep seeking God concerning all things. He will answer you. I pray it will be soon. This is avery delicate and sensitive situation. Keep seeking God...


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## GodsPromises (Sep 8, 2009)

Pooh,

My quite response is: It's time to find a new church home.  

Now for the drawn out response:  Sometimes in order to grow and mature in Christ we need to change where we are. Now this has nothing really to do with your Father, maybe just maybe the Lord is using this situation to get you out of your comfort zone in order to move you to where He wants you. I agree that you need to heal your relationship with your father but at the same time you must continue to grow in Chirst and if you are feeling that you can't in the location that you are in then it's may just be time to relocate to do God's will.  You can't do his work in the state that you are in right now, trust me I know. 

Pray that the Lord will show you where He wants you and then you need to go where He says go. It sounds to me that you know what you need to do but you are torn between growing and saying loyal to your father, because the only reason you are staying there at that church is because you are living at home and your loyalty to your dad.  Stay in prayer, sis.  He will never lead you astray.


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## Poohbear (Sep 8, 2009)

These two online articles explain a little bit of what I've been going through:

http://eaandfaith.blogspot.com/2007/03/how-to-spot-religious-abuse.html

http://www.spiritwatch.org/relabdef.htm


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## MSee (Sep 8, 2009)

Pooh I understand what you are going through. I've had a simillar experience but the Pastor is not my relative. I kept saying touch not the Lords anointed and obey those in athority over you etc. Then I went through a period of prayer and fasting one meal a day. All I can say is that when the Holy Spirit starts revealing truth and backing it up with scripture, it is best to obey God than man (or woman). I searched myself, and keep checking my own obedience to the word because I know hurt and emotional abuse can open the door to deception, I can only suggest that you keep doing the same (I can tell you have been searching yourself). Once you are sure of what God is telling you to do JUST DO IT. He will take care of the rest. If we are to "follow peace with all men" and "seek peace and pursue it" we may have to step away from toxic relationships. But I will suggest always maintain respect and guard your heart vehemently and ask God to set a watch over your mouth. If your joy has been stolen, so has your strength (borrowed that from a friend who knew what I was going through) so take time to maintain prayer, personal praise and worship and studying and meditating on the scripture to keep you strong in the Lord.

I will pray for you.


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## pebbles (Sep 8, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> I haven't seen anyone speak negatively about my father in this thread. Only I have. I am venting and expressing what he has done and how I feel about him and how his words and actions have affected me spiritually as well as emotionally and psychologically. I cannot deny how I feel. And if you really want to know something, I'm not the only person that has felt this way about him and the church. And not just my immediate family either. There have been church members that have left the church because of certain issues.  It's not just me, and it's not just us.  And it's not like I said my dad is Satan or anything. My dad is saying that about me.
> 
> And Shimmie, I wasn't born yesterday and I'm not stupid or uneducated. I have a spirit of discernment about motives and agendas and opinions and attitudes or whatever. If I feel like the church is cult, that's how I feel. Even my brother has said the same thing. Even my cousins who came in town from Michigan said the same thing. And I didn't even provoke them to say it. They noticed it themselves without me even saying one word about my sentiments.
> 
> Talking about my father just happens to be the main issue with my spiritual well-being since he is my father and my pastor at the current moment. Maybe Satan is attacking both of us, but at the same time, God is the one who is in control and will have the victory in this situation whether I stay at this church or go to another one. *I know one thing for sure, I'm not about to stay there for the sake of pleasing my father.*  I'm a Christian that has spiritual needs as well.



It appears that your mind is made up. Do what you feel is best for you. :Rose:


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