# Can We Try This Again?-- Christianity & The Law of Attraction



## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

I searched this forum and it looks like the last thread that was posted on this was locked.  But this has been itching my mind & soul for so long and I really would like to discuss it-- pretty please?  I don't want to refute or dispute the LoA. Instead, I would like to embrace it even more, while applying it to my walk with God.  I believe that one can be a Christian and believe in the Law of Attraction without compromising his/her relationship with God.

Ever since I read the thread that ArmyQT started about the Law of Attraction, it literally changed my life.  After reading books on the LoA and weeks of learning about it, I FINALLY came to the realization of what my mother (a devout Christian) was talking about all this time.  She would always tell me to "think positive" and I would hear the words, but it was something I've heard all my life, becoming desensitized to its impact.  For the first time, it actually struck a DEEP chord inside of me.  

My mother had been practicing the LoA since I've known her and I've witnessed small MIRACLES happen to her ALL THE TIME after she would PROCLAIM them.  I am constantly in awe.  I thought it was just her luck and her wits and smarts, along with her faith in God.  But I've come to realize that it is nothing BUT her faith in God.

The LoA has tremendously allowed me to strengthen my relationship with the Lord and I want to further apply it to my life as a Christian.  

Something in my life is happening right now & my faith has been shaken.  I'm scared b/c I know that allowing this to continue will not bring about what I want for someone I care about (as I feel like it was my doing that has put them in this current position).  Yet, I'm still scared.  I'm trying to keep applying my faith and positive thinking, but I feel like I'm just coating my fear and not eradicating it.  

So I've been praying and taking steps to change this today and don't want this to ever defeat me.  I want to exercise my faith and be able to change my thinking forever.


*I would like this thread to be used for us to discuss how we can apply the LoA to our lives as Christians and fuse it together into one big application of FAITH.  Can we share thoughts, life experiences, info, scriptures, etc?  For those who have mastered it, can you help us novices out? Thanks & God bless.

*
ETA:  My limited thought on this is that the Lord is our source and that our faith is the only key that can unlock the source.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

To get it started, I've found some info online that has already helped me.  I got it from: http://www.conservativetruth.org/article.php?id=2429

*Beyond Positive Thinking*

*August 16, 2004*

             By Jim Collins, Beyond Positive Thinking _(EDITORâ€™S NOTE: This article is an excerpt from Jim Collinâ€™s new book, â€œBeyond Positive Thinking: Success and Motivation in the Scriptures.â€ I highly recommend this book.  If you would like a FREE, no obligation copy of the book, please respond at the end of the article.)_

Much has been said about positive thinking, which has given way to humanism and the New Age movement. Positive thinking is simply the worldâ€™s term for what God calls â€œFaith.â€

Positive thinking begins and ends with the human mind. Faith allows you to tap into the force that created the universe through your re-created human spirit. Positive thinking says, â€œMy ability to think positive thoughts will bring me happiness.â€ Faith says, â€œThe God that spoke the universe into existence lives inside me and because I have His ability in me, I am full of joy unspeakable and full of glory.â€ Positive thinking teaches us to think in a positive manner. Faith teaches us to think according to the word of God. Positive thinking gives the credit to man. Faith gives the credit to God. Positive thinking strives to win in life based on the ability to maintain a positive attitude. Faith has already secured the victory through Jesus Christ, and responds to the circumstances in life with triumphant exuberance and thanksgiving.

Faith is the vehicle that allows you to drive down the highway of life and receive everything that God has already given you. When you receive eternal life, by receiving Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, your re-created human spirit is filled with Godâ€™s life and nature. You receive Godâ€™s ability. Can you imagine what it would mean to you if you had the ability of God, the Creator of the universe, at your disposal? Think about that for a second. What canâ€™t God do? He can do anything, right? You have the same ability living on the inside of you!

Did you decide to be born? If not, then why are you here in this life? You are here on planet earth because you are an individual miracle of God. God created you to do something with your life that nobody else can do. Nobody else can fulfill your unique destiny. God created you to have fellowship with Him through the process of realizing your God-given dream.

Your dreams are simply God seeking expression through you. God would not give you a dream if He did not also give you the ability to achieve it. That ability is released through faith.

What is faith and how does it work? The Bible definition of faith states, â€œNow faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.â€ (Hebrews 11:1)

Faith gives substance to the things that I desire in my life. Faith says, â€œMy heartâ€™s desire is a reality even though I canâ€™t see it yet.â€ Faith brings God on the scene and causes the necessary events and circumstances to unfold according to the image of my dream. Hope confidently expects my dream to come true. Faith confirms that I have it now. Hope is in the future; faith is in the present. I pray to God hoping for something and I leave with it in my possession.

How does faith work? If faith is the vehicle, what is the gasoline? What is the secret ingredient that causes faith to produce results in your life? The Bible tells us that faith works by love. Faith is activated, energized, and expressed through love. (Galatians 5:6) Love is the gas that powers the vehicle of faith. Faith is the vehicle of life and love is what makes it go _and _grow.

The one Scripture that is repeated more than any other in the Bible is â€œLove your neighbor as yourself.â€ The first person you have to love is yourself. If you hate yourself, you cannot love your neighbor. You cannot give someone something you do not have. When you have a healthy self-image and a high level of self-esteem, then you can give them away by loving others. God is love, and Jesus commanded us to love one another with the God-kind of love. (1 John 4:8, 16 and John 13:34)

The characteristics of the God-kind of love are described in First Corinthians 13. The God-kind of love is patient and kind. It does not envy, it does not parade itself, it is not puffed up, it does not behave rudely, it does not seek its own, it is not provoked, it thinks no evil, it does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in truth. The God-kind of love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things.

The characteristics of the God-kind of love culminate with the victory cry: â€œLove never fails!â€

(1 Corinthians 4:8) God is love and God never fails. When we live a life of faith and energize that faith by walking in love, we never fail!

When you learn to live a life of faith and activate it by walking in love, the same power that created the heavens and the earth will be at your disposal.


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## PaperClip (Feb 23, 2007)

I look forward to an enlightening and provocative conversation here.... I'm also curious about this from a Christian perspective. As for me and my house, we serve the Lord Jesus Christ... and yet there's some aspects of this that I'm interested in discussing....

Thank you for posting this topic.


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## StrawberryQueen (Feb 23, 2007)

What I've know from it was that it runs parallel to Christianity with corresponding scriptures to the LoA.


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## Omoge (Feb 23, 2007)

It seems like one of those principles where you have to take the time to seperate the baby from the bath water. 
The positive thinking aspect of LOA is great, but not unique. Lots of books, the Bible, Pastors, Teachers, Friends and my Mother have talked about the power of positive thinking though the years.
The fact that you are directing your thoughts to the "universe"  and the affiliation with new-agism and other religions is also sketchy to me.

      I belive faith and positive thinking (not neccesarily LOA) go hand in hand. For example you pray to God for success in a new venture and you have the faith that God can do it for you.
However, you also have to believe YOU can do it by the grace of God and thats where positive thinking comes into play. I think positive thinking can be considered a day to day manifestation/reminder/supporter/encourager of your faith. 
    There have been many time when I have prayed to God for something and I have faith that he can do it, but my day to day thought process would not be supportive of that faith I claimed to have in God. I have to read books like Joyce Meyer's Battlefield of the Mind, talk to my Mum or read some straight talking Proverbs or Psalms to help me let go of my negative thoughts. 

    I am just learning about being a serious Christian so I probably don't know much. However I think there are sooo many other books a Christian that wants to adhere strictly to the monotheistic principles of the Bible can read about the power of positive thinking, without crossing the lines that the LOA principles cross.


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## gn1g (Feb 23, 2007)

I think LOA is faith in action.  However I am very cautions in using the LOA ideas I prefer to be spirit lead.   

But for me I practice ,
Hab 2:2 Write the vision make it plain . . .   
Speak those things that are not as though they are. . . 
As a man thinketh so is he . . 
Lean not unto thine own understanding . . .
Without a vision the people parish. . . 
just a few scriptures off the top of my head.

being a doer of the word is visualizing, speaking, seeing it etc.  coupled with the rest of the word of God.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> It seems like one of those principles where you have to take the time to seperate the baby from the bath water.
> * The positive thinking aspect of LOA is great, but not unique. Lots of books, the Bible, Pastors, Teachers, Friends and my Mother have talked about the power of positive thinking though the years.*
> The fact that you are directing your thoughts to the "universe"  and the affiliation with new-agism and other religions is also sketchy to me.
> 
> ...



For the bolded, I believe this also and my mother's life has made me see this.  Also positive thinking isn't really "new age" and this is something I've also known from reading various sources and by simply looking at the world around me.  However, I must acknowledge that had it not been for "The Secret", my eyes never would have been opened.

For the underlined, YES!  This is why I started the thread.  There were so many things that I disagreed with while reading up on LoA or better yet, positive thinking.  I decided to omit them from my mind as I read and only pick up what I believed help me become closer to God.  But I would like to find books and info from people that do this omitting for me and help me better apply it to my faith.

Eta: I am also a 'baby' Christian and don't want anything to deter me from maturing in Christianity.  this is why I am here asking for guidance.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> What I've know from it was that it runs parallel to Christianity with corresponding scriptures to the LoA.



Last night, I tried to find some scriptures that corresponded as well.  It was very enlightening.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I look forward to an enlightening and provocative conversation here.... I'm also curious about this from a Christian perspective. As for me and my house, we serve the Lord Jesus Christ... and yet there's some aspects of this that I'm interested in discussing....
> 
> * Thank you for posting this topic.*



You're welcome.   I just hope no one takes it the wrong way as if I'm trying to get the wrong things out of positive thinking that are not in line with God.  This is not my intent.  But I do believe that it is from God b/c my spirit has been led to so much enrichment ever since I've found out about changing my mind and way of thinking.  It has helped me better apply the laws in the Bible that used to be so difficult for me to do.  It is definitely helping me become a better Christian.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

gn1g said:
			
		

> I think LOA is faith in action.  However *I am very cautions in using the LOA ideas I prefer to be spirit lead.   *
> 
> But for me I practice ,
> Hab 2:2 Write the vision make it plain . . .
> ...



Thanks for this!!  This is the direction I need to get me started! 

For the bolded, I know what you mean.  So maybe coming here and saying LoA was the wrong thing to say as I want to convert it to my faith in God.  As you said, it IS faith in action and that probably should have been my title for this thread.


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## Omoge (Feb 23, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> For the bolded, I believe this also and my mother's lofe has made me see this.  Also positive thinking isn't really "new age" and this is something I've also known from reading various sources and by simply looking at the world around me.  Hwoever, I must aknowledge that had it not been for "The Secret", my eyes never would have been opened.
> 
> For the underlined, YES!  This is why I started the thread.  There were so many things that I disagreed with while reading up on LoA or better yet, positive thinking.  I decided to omit them from my mind as I read and only pick up what I believed help me become closer to God.  But I would like to find books and info from people that do this omitting for me and help me better apply it to my faith.
> 
> Eta: I am also a 'baby' Christian and don't want anything to deter me from maturing in Christianity.  this is why I am here asking for guidance.




Try Joyce Meyer's "Battlefield of the Mind", the book also has a daily devotional and scriptural reference for everyday. It talks about being constantly aware of your thoughts and the damage or good that can occur in you life due to your thought process. It made me finally realise I have control over every single thought that comes into my head. I always used to say, "but I can't help how I feel", and one negative thought would end up spiraling out of control and mess up my outlook on things for days. The book made me see otherwise. 

That means I have control over whether I want to be happy or sad today,regardless of whats goingon around me. 
On days when I am alert and aware (unfortunately, not every day yet) 
I  choose to be happy, choosing to be happy means I am more productive, joyful and attractive to others. It means I can focus on my dreams and goals, instead of focusing of whats wrong with me. It means I can see the good in people around me and I am less critical and more forgiving. It meansI am thankful to God and I want to show my appreciation to him more. 
It takes practice, however I am trying to be more consistent until it becomes second nature to me.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> Try Joyce Meyer's "Battlefield of the Mind", the book also has a daily devotional and scriptural reference for everyday. It talks about being constantly aware of your thoughts and the damage or good that can occur in you life due to your thought process. It made me finally realise I have control over every single thought that comes into my head. I always used to say, "but I can't help how I feel", and one negative thought would end up spiraling out of control and mess up my outlook on things for days. The book made me see otherwise.
> 
> That means I have control over whether I want to be happy or sad today,regardless of whats goingon around me.
> On days when I am alert and aware (unfortunately, not every day yet)
> ...


Thank you so much!!! I am DEFINITELY going to look at that book.  (off to google it right now) Your post seems to answer a lot of my questions.  I want to be like that too.


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## Omoge (Feb 23, 2007)

"I believe this also and my mother's lofe has made me see this. "

Aren't mothers amazing, the way they are constantly persistent and never give up on us.  I used to roll my eyes whenever she  used to preach to me, and she preached consistently for almost 16 years before it finally started to stick.  I thank God for her everday and I'm learning not to take her for granted.
I only pray I can be as good a mother as she has to me when that time comes.


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## PaperClip (Feb 23, 2007)

I'll just put this out here.... I certainly agree with what has been said about the biblical scriptures that so readily apply to what has been labeled "law of attraction". Some folk (not Christians, per se) would debate on Who or what came first? Various deities or universal law. I do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega...Creator of EVERYTHING, including the so-called "universal law" and that He is true to Himself and His word that He would not violate that universal law because He ultimately gave us FREE WILL... so He's not going to IMPOSE anything on us...and He's not going to necessarily stop us when we spiral downward with negative thinking....

This (that He does not stop us from negative thinking) is what sticks out to me.... I have been having temper tantrums about why God's promises had not manifested in my life...because it's not TIME yet? Negative thinking? What? What is it? I know some of these promises are LONG OVERDUE and so I am at the point where I've got to stop the insanity (doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result) and DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.... And so one thing I appreciate that has become clearer to me is MY ROLE, ACCOUNTABILITY TO MYSELF that (maybe) I let doubt/negative thinking stop the flow of blessings and promises.... 

ETA I have more to talk about concerning this but one thing that I wanted to add is that I'm really DONE with all of the so-called Christian books, authors, preachers, etc. and the variety of cliches.... I think that's been part of the issue: an OVERDEPENDENCE on these preachers that have moved so many people into a place of laziness and apathy about the personal/individual part of that personal relationship with the Lord and the flow of blessings into one's own life.
-End of mini-rant--


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## Omoge (Feb 23, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> Thank you so much!!! I am DEFINITELY going to look at that book.  (off to google it right now) Your post seems to answer a lot of my questions.  I want to be like that too.




You are very welcome, it was extremely helpful to me when I was going through a difficult time, things are a bit stable now and I slacked of. I need to get back on track to being a consistently happy and joyful person. 
I have always genuinely admired people who are naturally inclined to be positive about everything.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> "I believe this also and my mother's lofe has made me see this. "
> 
> Aren't mothers amazing, the way they are constantly persistent and never give up on us.  I used to roll my eyes whenever she  used to preach to me, and she preached consistently for almost 16 years before it finally started to stick.  I thank God for her everday and I'm learning not to take her for granted.
> I only pray I can be as good a mother as she has to me when that time comes.



Yep!  I grew a new level of admiration for my mother that I never had before and never imagined.  Just thinking abut it makes me want to cry. (I'm a sap)  But now that I see how much she cared for me and has tried to steer me in the right direction, I am sooo grateful for having her as my mother.  Whenever I think negatively, she quickly chastizes me, saying that  I am losing my faith in God and should always trust in Him to deliver me.  

Mothers ARE wonderful and I;m sure you will make a wonderful one!

Now that I'm typing this, I think I should write her a letter, letting her know how I feel and my appreciation.  Thanks ladies for this discussion!


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## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I'll just put this out here.... I certainly agree with what has been said about the biblical scriptures that so readily apply to what has been labeled "law of attraction". Some folk (not Christians, per se) would debate on Who or what came first? Various deities or universal law. I do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega...Creator of EVERYTHING, including the so-called "universal law" and that He is true to Himself and His word that He would not violate that universal law because He ultimately gave us FREE WILL... so He's not going to IMPOSE anything on us...and He's not going to necessarily stop us when we spiral downward with negative thinking....
> 
> This (that He does not stop us from negative thinking) is what sticks out to me.... I have been having temper tantrums about why God's promises had not manifested in my life...because it's not TIME yet? Negative thinking? What? What is it? I know some of these promises are LONG OVERDUE and so I am at the point where I've got to stop the insanity (doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result) and DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.... And so one thing I appreciate that has become clearer to me is MY ROLE, ACCOUNTABILITY TO MYSELF that (maybe) I let doubt/negative thinking stop the flow of blessings and promises....
> 
> ...



hmmmm... could you please elaborate further.  I have never really read Christian books and have always stuck to the Bible for my answers.  But recently I personally feel like I need more guidance on using the Bible and finding and interpreting what is in there to better my life.  The book Omoge posted seems really interesting,  They even have one for teens, which I would love to get for my sister.

Eta: If these books don't seem right for you, perhaps talking and discussing one-on-one with others in your life or church, or even  your pastor may help.


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## Omoge (Feb 23, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> Yep!  I grew a new level of admiration for my mother that I never had before and never imagined.  Just thinking abut it makes me want to cry. (I'm a sap)  But now that I see how much she cared for me and has tried to steer me in the right direction, I am sooo grateful for having her as my mother.  Whenever I think negatively, she quickly chastizes me, saying that  I am losing my faith in God and should always trust in Him to deliver me.
> 
> Mothers ARE wonderful and I;m sure you will make a wonderful one!
> 
> Now that I'm typing this, I think I should write her a letter, letting her know how I feel and my appreciation.  Thanks ladies for this discussion!



Thank you, I am sure you'll make a great mother too...I actually believe a lot of the women on this forum are/will make good mothers, just because of the need for self growth and development that brings a lot of us here. Yeah, am going to call my Mum this evening, even though I just spoke to her yesterday. I know, am a big ole baby too.


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## PaperClip (Feb 23, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> hmmmm... could you please elaborate further. I have never really read Christian books and have always stuck to the Bible for my answers. But recently I personally feel like I need more guidance on using the Bible and finding and interpreting what is in there to better my life. The book Omoge posted seems really interesting, They even have one for teens, which I would love to get for my sister.
> 
> Eta: If these books don't seem right for you, perhaps talking and discussing one-on-one with others in your life or church, or even your pastor may help.


 
There are some wonderful book and resources written by Christian authors that are very helpful for your Christian walk. I apologize and PLEASE FORGIVE ME for my words that may lead you to believe otherwise. I have plenty of them! I think I'm just venting.... I do apologize.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 23, 2007)

I just found this article online that may help me and hopefully others out:

THINKING LIKE GOD THINKS

Apparently, it's a pdf file, but it won't open so I had to post the HTML/cached version.


ETA: @ RelaxerRehab:  I totally understand. No need to apologize.  Everyone should do what works for them.  I was simply curious to know if there is anything out there I should be weary of or avoid.  Thanks!


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## DSP (Feb 23, 2007)

I first learned the words "Laws of Attraction" around 10 years ago when reading the works of Christian minister Catherine Ponder (she's ordained in the Unity Church).  While some LoA teachers want to appeal to the masses and are reluctant to use the words "God" or "Christ", she is the opposite.  Her biography states:

_*Catherine Ponder writes from a Christian perspective. Pagans may wish to substitute their own diety form where Ponder mentions God. Those uncomfortable with religion can substitute "The Universe".*​_She's been writing on LoA since the 1960s.  Her affirmations are Christ-based and her examples are from scripture.  Some of her books:

_Open Your Mind to Receive
Dynamic Laws of Prayer
Prospering Power of Love
The "Millionaires of the Bible" series_​
Some of my favorite affirmations/prayers from "Open Your Mind to Receive":

_"I do not depend on persons or conditions for my good. God is the source of my supply and God provides his own amazing channels of good to me now."

"I let go of everything and everybody that is no longer a part of the Divine plan of my life.  I now expand quickly into the Divine plan of my life, where all conditions are permanently perfect."

"I am the rich child of a loving Father."

"God is so good, life is so wonderful, and I am so richly blessed."_

Since some of the LoA conversations in other areas have been so heated, I was reluctant to share this resource for fear of ridicule or negative comments.  But then I realized that I must be true to my own journey and share what I feel is good with people who might understand.

Love and Blessings to all!


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## melodee (Feb 23, 2007)

Disclaimer:  I believe in postive thought and focusing on sucess in life.  How could anyone who follows the Bible not do this?  

*Christian women*--just be cautious about things that try too bleach the sacrifice, love, and power of *JESUS* from any aspect of faith.

We are Christian because of Jesus _Christ_.  And through him, postive thinking is a wonderful thing that we are entitled to.  In Him, we can do everything.  Without Him, we are just dust and ashes and worldy success in no real gain.

If one doesn't believe the salvation and the power comes through Him, then they are practicing another type of faith.  If one believes in God and the power of God, but does not accept Jesus as the one whose sacrifice allows it all, then they are studying another type of faith.  Maybe one that is related to closely, but not the Christian faith.

I think confusion sets in because many in the world are "Christians" (using the label) but are not followers and believers in Jesus Christ.  We must all decide whether we want to be followers or not.  And if you are aware of the choice and choose no Jesus, okay then.  But remember that being a follower of Christ is different than being a "Christian" nowadays.


Guys, I do recommend Battlefield of the Mind, along with many others in Joyce Meyer's eries.  These books will change your life!  I am a proponent of positive thiinking and claiming victory--but I bow and give the glory to the One who gives me the sword and shield.


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## Divine Inspiration (Feb 23, 2007)

Um...I've got more to say so I'll be back later but for now I VERY highly recommend The Power of Positive Thinking to any person wondering about Christians and LOA. The Bible says "As a man thinketh, so is he." which is essentially the premise of LOA. TPOPT takes all of those things a step further and gives solid Biblical support for why Christians are called to have a vision and use techniques to being those things to fruition.


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## DSP (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm sitting here crying and laughing at the same time.  God is good!

After I posted my message, I received an email from a friend asking if I knew anyone who wanted a free, almost new recumbent exercise bike.  I'm recovering from an illness and have prayed to regain my strength and lose this extra weight.

I haven't seen this friend since I was diagnosed and she had no idea I was in need.  *She is cleaning out her house now because after watching Oprah the other day, she's trying to make room for new blessings to come to her life!!! 
*
I'm sitting here grinning like a fool and feeling rich beyond belief.  I just called her up and my friend listened to me while I cried and gave thanks.  Now she's giving me a yoga mat too!  Thank you all for giving me a opportunity to share this -- it may seem silly, but this is a real miracle for me right now.


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## upandcoming (Feb 24, 2007)

I have a LOT to say about this. A lot. But I can't right now. All I know is I have mixed feelings. It seems like a lot of the principles are good; I just feel like some people may get caught up in the idea that all they need is themselves, not Jesus Christ. God wants us to think positively; speak positively; do positive things...but above all He wants us to believe in _Him. _

When I'm done with some things I'm going to come back on this board. Just becareful what you accept into your spirit is what I tell myself when I read a lot of these things...


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## MrsQueeny (Feb 24, 2007)

togethernessinchrist said:
			
		

> I have a LOT to say about this. A lot. But I can't right now. All I know is I have mixed feelings. It seems like a lot of the principles are good; I just feel like some people may get caught up in the idea that all they need is themselves, not Jesus Christ. God wants us to think positively; speak positively; do positive things...but above all He wants us to believe in _Him. _
> 
> When I'm done with some things I'm going to come back on this board. Just becareful what you accept into your spirit is what I tell myself when I read a lot of these things...


You have stately exactly how I feel on the subject.  I think it is great for people to move toward the positive but we as Christians know that GOD is ultimately our source.  If we direct our energy toward serving Him we will be amazed at the blessings he will pour into our lives.  Q


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## secretdiamond (Feb 24, 2007)

queeny20 said:
			
		

> You have stately exactly how I feel on the subject. I think it is great for people to move toward the positive but we as Christians know that GOD is ultimately our source. If we direct our energy toward serving Him we will be amazed at the blessings he will pour into our lives. Q


 
But this is exactly how I feel as well (I stated that in my first post and other posts after). I just want to be able to do it better. 

If there are people who disagree with the idea of this thread, feel free to express so and why (as I'm trying to learn from all points of view and a healthy discussion/debate fosters learning). Everyone sees things differently and that's alright. As long as we know for ourselves that we are here to serve God and that ultimately HE is the one who knows our hearts.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 24, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> Um...I've got more to say so I'll be back later but for now I VERY highly recommend The Power of Positive Thinking to any person wondering about Christians and LOA. The Bible says "As a man thinketh, so is he." which is essentially the premise of LOA. TPOPT takes all of those things a step further and gives solid Biblical support for why Christians are called to have a vision and use techniques to being those things to fruition.


 
Thanks for the book suggestion. I really appreciate it. I will add this to the books I'm gonna read. Right now (and for months to come), I have NO free time to do a lot of things b/c I've been sooo busy, BUT I will make time to read up on this topic b/c it means so much to me.

Thanks again.


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 24, 2007)

This is just a quick post. I have to run in a few minutes, but I am interested in reading _The Power of Positive Thinking_ (suggested by Divine Inspiration).

Another person mentioned a Christian book club on this forum, but we haven't done much since. Is anyone game for reading it & exchanging their ideas with me?


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## DSP (Feb 24, 2007)

Forgiveness

One of the hardest parts of opening myself to receive God's blessings has been practicing forgiveness.  I found myself holding on to memories of the painful words and actions of others and it was blocking my blessings.  I could say the words *"And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us."* but some parts of me still held on to those past hurts.  Catherine Ponder writes of inviting Jesus into your memories to heal them.  This may not be for everyone, but it helps me:

*How To Be Blessed With Forgiveness
*
If you have not gained the peace of mind or satisfying results you feel you are entitled to as a child of God, it may be because you have unfinished business in the department of forgiveness. (Most of us do!)

Jesus Christ came to heal not only the conscious but also the subconscious mind, which contains all the memories and emotional blocks that stop our prayers from being answered. Since there is no human element on the spiritual plane, you can invite Jesus Christ into your childhood, into your prenatal life even, into your teens, young adult years, etc., to heal and comfort whatever unhappy or bitter memories linger there: "Come into my life, Jesus Christ. I invite you, Jesus Christ, into my subconscious memory to heal whatever needs to be forgiven, released, redeemed. Cleanse me and free me from it now!"

Then picture the living presence of Jesus Christ going back into your childhood, taking your hand, comforting, loving, forgiving, healing you and those bitter experiences. Thereafter, whenever you think of the process that is taking place, just say, *"Thank you, Jesus Christ. The forgiving love of Jesus Christ has now set me free from the unhappy experiences of the past or present(or get specific, "That unhappy marriage, that health problem, financial loss, etc.") and I now go free to be happy."*

You will be amazed at the mental, emotional and physical blocks that will be removed, at how happy and cleansed and relieved you will feel. Your prayers will probably then be answered in a rush of happy events!​


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## DSP (Feb 24, 2007)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> This is just a quick post. I have to run in a few minutes, but I am interested in reading _The Power of Positive Thinking_ (suggested by Divine Inspiration).
> 
> Another person mentioned a Christian book club on this forum, but we haven't done much since. Is anyone game for reading it & exchanging their ideas with me?



That would be really nice.  Count me in!


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## comike (Feb 24, 2007)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> This is just a quick post. I have to run in a few minutes, but I am interested in reading _*The Power of Positive Thinking*_ (suggested by Divine Inspiration).
> 
> Another person mentioned a Christian book club on this forum, but we haven't done much since. Is anyone game for reading it & exchanging their ideas with me?


 
I have to agree...this is a great read.


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## MrsQueeny (Feb 24, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> But this is exactly how I feel as well (I stated that in my first post and other posts after). I just want to be able to do it better.
> 
> If there are people who disagree with the idea of this thread, feel free to express so and why (as I'm trying to learn from all points of view and a healthy discussion/debate fosters learning). Everyone sees things differently and that's alright. As long as we know for ourselves that we are here to serve God and that ultimately HE is the one who knows our hearts.


I don't disagree with the idea of the thread at all.  I think it is important for Christians to openly discuss things and make sure they are in line with GOD.  I am just voicing how I feel about the whole subject surrounding LOA and the Secret the way most people are using it in their lives.  I have a friend who has been into it long before I heard about it on this board.  She has given up on GOD totally and is focused on making things work for her according to the principles of The Secret.  I think with anything you have to look at the good and bad but make sure that no matter what GOD gets the glory.  I hope that people will now be more open to apply certain principles to their relationship with Christ and they will be blessed.  Q


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## secretdiamond (Feb 24, 2007)

queeny20 said:
			
		

> I don't disagree with the idea of the thread at all.  I think it is important for Christians to openly discuss things and make sure they are in line with GOD.  I am just voicing how I feel about the whole subject surrounding LOA and the Secret the way most people are using it in their lives.  I have a friend who has been into it long before I heard about it on this board.  She has given up on GOD totally and is focused on making things work for her according to the principles of The Secret.  I think with anything you have to look at the good and bad but make sure that no matter what GOD gets the glory.  I hope that people will now be more open to apply certain principles to their relationship with Christ and they will be blessed.  Q



Wow...  That's definitely something I want to avoid.  Now I see why some people might not agree with this so much. Thanks for telling me this.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 24, 2007)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> This is just a quick post. I have to run in a few minutes, but I am interested in reading _The Power of Positive Thinking_ (suggested by Divine Inspiration).
> 
> Another person mentioned a Christian book club on this forum, but we haven't done much since. Is anyone game for reading it & exchanging their ideas with me?



This would be great!


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## melodee (Feb 24, 2007)

Let's do a book club please! --but we should have some ground rules.  
Let's make sure our book club has a vision/mission statement, as I do not want to defend my faith or get into arguments about _my Lord's_ importance in my life.


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## sweetjam (Feb 24, 2007)

Thank you for sharing.


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## comike (Feb 24, 2007)

I felt compelled to share this with you all.  I was reviewing responses to "The Secret" show on Oprah's website and ran across some of the responses from the Christian woman in the audience that asked the question about "The Secret" and Christianity.  Here are some of her posts from the website.  

_Posted on: 02/16/2007 at 10:08pm (1395 of 5378)__
I was the one on the show today that asked the only question that had anything to do with Christianity and it was not how to blend the two. I have no desire what so ever to use the teachings of the cult leader (Michael Beckwith) and the snake oil salesman (James Ray)! I only went on the show as a way to bring up the fact that this has nothing to do with God, Jesus, Christianity or the like. The Secret states that the universe is where all the "gifts" come from. They don't recognize God as our Creator or our Father in heaven, or Jesus as His Son. I had asked them that question in person on the show, but it was during commercial. If you do any kind of research on either of these men, you will see that have nothing to do with God. _

_Posted on: 02/17/2007 at 3:02pm (1972 of 5378)__
first off James Ray is not a scientist and Michael Beckwith does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God. He says Jesus was a prophet and a great teacher but not the Son of God. How do I know? I asked him at the follow up show. During commercial: "Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?" and he made some kind of grunt and turned away. That was the point I was trying to make. These "teachers" (and I use that term loosely)use scripture to attract believers and tell them this is okay for Christians when in fact it is not._


_Posted on: 02/17/2007 at 3:25pm (1987 of 5378)__
Here is the reason God and Jesus were brought up into this whole thing in the first place. Faith. and because the "teachers" did bring up the name of Jesus but not as the Son of God but as a prophet. I wanted to know if this secret would be good for my family. I am a Christian and trust in the Lord in good times and bad, in times of health and sickness, etc. If I put my faith in the universe than where's my faith in God? And the reason we need to debate this is because the secret teachers are liars. They say that this is about God when it's not._


_Posted on: 02/17/2007 at 4:12pm (2025 of 5378)__
and in my opinion there is no way to tie the whole concept of the secret into Christianity because it is being taught by people who do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God. They believe the universe is God not God the creator of the universe. How can you be a Chirstian and believe that the universe is your go here to do your bidding? There are principles of the secret that are good, but the whole concept of the secret is laughable. Positive thinking, yes. Bills in your mail box turning into checks? no. The universe is your genie? no. It's funny,I was the one that asked Oprah that question and I don't even remember what she said. All I heard come out of Beckwith's mouth were lies about the bible, God and Jesus. I hate that the secret teachers are trying to throw in the bible comments to make it sound like something a Christian could use and still be faithful to God._


_Posted on: 02/17/2007 at 8:52pm (2180 of 5378)__
How about 2 Timothy 4-3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4-4: They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths._


_Posted on: 02/17/2007 at 11:13pm (2255 of 5378)__
You really don't seem to understand what I'm saying. Okay, let me try one more time. I am not saying that no one should use the secret because it's not Christian, I'm saying that's why I don't use it and not only because it's not Christian, but because when asked how God fits in they danced around the question with their doublespeak so as to make it sound like it was Christian without coming out and saying so. So they are liars about the Christian/God thing. That's all. Now do you understand?_


_Posted on: 02/17/2007 at 11:25pm (2260 of 5378)__
I have to tell you it was the scariest thing I ever did. When I saw the first show I fell for it. I researched the movie and then watched it on the internet. After I saw the movie I realized that this is not for me or my family, mostly due to the fact that Neale Donald Walsch said that God doesn't have a plan for us and that no one will stand in judgement now or ever. That is why I brought it up, I wanted to expose them for the liars they are. Unfortunately some people didn't get it. That's why I came on here, to let people know what they believe and not to fall into their trap. Thanks for supporting me. It was scary but I would do it again in an instant if it helped only one person._


_Posted on: 02/19/2007 at 3:47am (2702 of 5378)__
Yes, I am that lady. And I have to tell you that after I left the studio, I felt totally used by Oprah! She had an agenda and I at the time felt like I was part of it, but after I saw the show, I see Oprah wasn't the one who used me...The truth got out and that's what mattered. All I did was ask a question and I can not believe the reaction! I just wanted to know if this was right for my family and I got my answer....it's not. I also feel like it was an infomercial. Now I'm getting accused of pushing my faith on everyone. I'm not doing that. People ask questions, I answer some of then. It is still the USA right? If I boldly state something that I believe in I get accused of being judgemental. I'm not the Judge...and I get brow beaten for speaking up and now I'm wearing my Christianity like a badge. You bet I'm wearing it like a badge! Proud to be a Christian! Am I supposed to hide my faith because it may offend someone? Sorry, not gonna happen. And I also get accused of being fearful? and angry? Blaming God for my screwups? I sure as heck don't do that! I accept it and go on. Why is it that anyone who doesn't believe as I do accuses me of all sorts of untruths? Why attack me? I don't attack non believers, I'm just trying to point out this Secret is not for me. I don't need it because I have God and Jesus and their book which (for anyone who cares) by the way was God Breathed._


_Posted on: 02/19/2007 at 12:17am (2656 of 5378)__
The funny thing about your reply is you don't know me, you don't know anything about me and you don't know how deep my faith goes or what "laws" I believe or disbelieve. Why do you assume that you have superior Christian training? The fact of the matter is that the so called "teachers" were exposed. Some caught it, some didn't. It's not even the laws as much as it is the "teachers" that are trying to decieve people. So you may believe what you want, I for one will still put my faith in my Father, my hope in Christ, walk in the light and try to lead by example, but will ALWAYS expose the truth when I have the chance. That is not only my choice, but my duty._


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## StrawberryQueen (Feb 24, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I'll just put this out here.... I certainly agree with what has been said about the biblical scriptures that so readily apply to what has been labeled "law of attraction". Some folk (not Christians, per se) would debate on Who or what came first? Various deities or universal law. I do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega...Creator of EVERYTHING, including the so-called "universal law" and that He is true to Himself and His word that He would not violate that universal law because He ultimately gave us FREE WILL... so He's not going to IMPOSE anything on us...and He's not going to necessarily stop us when we spiral downward with negative thinking....
> 
> This (that He does not stop us from negative thinking) is what sticks out to me.... I have been having temper tantrums about why God's promises had not manifested in my life...because it's not TIME yet? Negative thinking? What? What is it? I know some of these promises are LONG OVERDUE and so I am at the point where I've got to stop the insanity (doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result) and DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.... And so one thing I appreciate that has become clearer to me is MY ROLE, ACCOUNTABILITY TO MYSELF that (maybe) I let doubt/negative thinking stop the flow of blessings and promises....
> 
> ...


I agree with EVERY.SINGLE.POINT in your post!


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## MrsQueeny (Feb 24, 2007)

I also wanted to add that what we are seeing and hearing now regarding the Secret and LOA is a fulfillment of prophecy.  But in the end "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess"... Q


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## Divine Inspiration (Feb 24, 2007)

The responses from the board are interesting.

My issue is that if these people who swear there's no Biblical basis for the Secret REALLY knew the Bible, they'd know that there IS Biblical basis for positive thinking & the power of our thoughts. Not only does the Bible tell us that without vision we fail, it also says WE ARE WHAT WE THINK. That's the foundation of the Secret...the decision to package it as being from the "universe" is subjective, but God does indeed tell us that both our thoughts and our faith are the hinges that open the doors we want opened.

So, Biblically speaking, we know that we are what we think, and that without faith, it is impossible to please God...so essentially, if we THINK about abundance and God's gifts and we BELIEVE that God will anoint us with the same, then we will RECEIVE these things. 

I understand the concern with these people cloaking their worldly principles in Christianity...but my point is that the premise IS Biblical whether these people choose to acknowledge that or not. They can say "universe" all they want, but a God-fearing Christian knows that every blessing comes from God and that all things begin and end with God. 

At some point, IMO, it begins to resemble arguing about religion...telling a Muslim that he/she is going to hell or telling a SDA that he/she will pay for worshipping on the wrong day. Labels are such a subjective thing, and suggesting that an entire concept is malicious based on a label is short-sighted IMO. It's not my place nor anyone else's to judge people and their personal decisions. We all have our own way, but the only way, the right way, and the correct way does not truly exist. In spite of many people believing that they "have it all figured out" and that everyone should follow the "truth", those things are ultimately subjective. People are simply doing the best they can given the knowledge and resources available to them, and because of my own shortcomings, I wouldn't dare cast stones on anyone seeking spiritual peace in spite of him/her searching in places that I wouldn't. This includes the Secret. We all have our own idea about where our blessings & curses come from, and we know that people in this world operate under a variety of religous tenets...with that in mind, why do we expect everybody to have the same appreciation, understanding, and application for ANYTHING, including the Secret? As Christians, we approach everything differently than the world does...sex, money, marriage, child-rearing, etc so if we believe that our approach to living is right for us, another person's label of it is irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. I use LOA principles in my life, and they are in keeping with my spirituality and my relationship with God. I believe that my blessings come from God, and that it is because of my FAITH in God that I attract blessings and abundance...I'm not bothered by the fact that the next person will say their blessings come from the "universe." 

Again, for any Christian trying to reconcile how God and LOA fit together, you'll be forever changed by The Power of Positive Thinking. I certainly was. I use the things I learned in that book EVERY day, and my life has certainly been enhanced since introducing its teachings.

Bottom line: Faith is the breeding ground for miracles. When you stop expecting God's promises, you cancel out your blessings. A paradigm shift can change your entire life.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

queeny20 said:
			
		

> I also wanted to add that what we are seeing and hearing now regarding the Secret and LOA is a fulfillment of prophecy. But in the end "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess"... Q


 
Can you explain this further please. I'm really confused. I've heard this saying before, but I'm not sure of what your post is actually saying.  I'm sorry. Thanks.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> The responses from the board are interesting.
> 
> My issue is that if these people who swear there's no Biblical basis for the Secret REALLY knew the Bible, they'd know that *there IS Biblical basis for positive thinking & the power of our thoughts. Not only does the Bible tell us that without vision we fail, it also says WE ARE WHAT WE THINK.* That's the foundation of the Secret...the decision to package it as being from the "universe" is subjective, but God does indeed tell us that both our thoughts and our faith are the hinges that open the doors we want opened.
> 
> ...


 
Oh my goodness!!!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS POST!!!!  I agree with everything in the bolded and underlined. I TOTALLY agree with every word you typed! This is what I was trying to get across. And this is the EXACT conclusion I came to after finding out about LoA. I've been explaining this to my friends and family just the way you did (just not as eloquently...lol) I told them that LoA is NOT new and it is from God and no one or anything else.

Now, my problem is just applying it and making it work for me to strengthen my faith so that it may be a rock that no wave or storm can move or crumble. This is why I'm here. My faith and positive thinking is like a mold of clay, so to speak, instead of a rock. It's great on a nice, bright sunny day, but once the rain falls, I feel like it starts to soften a little. This week, I caught this happening to me (with fear) and I was scared. I knew it was happening, but had a hard time withstanding the doubt and fear that kept invading my heart.

I guess I would say that I need to 'exercise' my faith and positive thinking more, as it is a weak muscle right now.

ETA: I just want to make clear that I don't mean my faith in Christianity or my beliefs needs exercising.


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## Divine Inspiration (Feb 25, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> Oh my goodness!!!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS POST!!!!  I agree with everything in the bolded and underlined. I TOTALLY agree with every word you typed! This is what I was trying to get across. And this is the EXACT conclusion I came to after finding out about LoA. I've been explaining this to my friends and family just the way you did (just not as eloquently...lol) I told them that LoA is NOT new and it is from God and no one or anything else.
> 
> Now, my problem is just applying it and making it work for me to strengthen my faith so that it may be a rock that no wave or storm can move or crumble. This is why I'm here. My faith and positive thinking is like a mold of clay, so to speak, instead of a rock. It's great on a nice, bright sunny day, but once the rain falls, I feel like it starts to soften a little. This week, I caught this happening to me (with fear) and I was scared. I knew it was happening, but had a hard time withstanding the doubt and fear that kept invading my heart.
> 
> ...



I know what you mean....I was the same way. When things were going well, it was easy to have faith, but the minute I hit rocky times, I felt lost and confused. TPOPT definitely gave me some concrete tools to use during those time, and I have definitely reached a place where so-called "trials" don't even phase me. I have a new method for approaching problems and concerns, and my faith is the cornerstone of that method. 

I committed some scripture to memory re: faith, and I've been doing recitation every day for the past couple of months. The difference is dramatic. On top of that, I've been making the decision each morning to be HAPPY...plain ol' happy with me, my surroundings, and my blessings. I'm AMAZED at how different everything is when I'M different. It's true that our attitude is far more important than our circumstances. While storms have been raging, I've felt extreme peace & tranquility that only faith can give. God has been rewarding my faith with blessings & abundance.

The volume of our attraction is directly proportionate to our faith. Matthew 6 tells us that we need to stop worrying about the petty things and the future...and nothing could be more true. If we lived in the present and really appreciated the now, our hope & faith for tomorrow would be inevitably heightened. 

When we retrain our thoughts, we prepare ourselves to receive blessings that we previously didn't have room for.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> I know what you mean....I was the same way. When things were going well, it was easy to have faith, but the minute I hit rocky times, I felt lost and confused. TPOPT definitely gave me some concrete tools to use during those time, and I have definitely reached a place where so-called "trials" don't even phase me. I have a new method for approaching problems and concerns, and my faith is the cornerstone of that method.
> 
> I committed some scripture to memory re: faith, and I've been doing recitation every day for the past couple of months. The difference is dramatic. On top of that, I've been making the decision each morning to be HAPPY...plain ol' happy with me, my surroundings, and my blessings. I'm AMAZED at how different everything is when I'M different. It's true that our attitude is far more important than our circumstances. While storms have been raging, I've felt extreme peace & tranquility that only faith can give. God has been rewarding my faith with blessings & abundance.
> 
> ...


 
This post is so inspirational. Thank you so much for this advice.  I can't wait to learn more from the books and start feeling the way I want to!

ETA: I'm gonna have LOTS of questions for you as time goes along. Hope you don't mind.


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## StrawberryQueen (Feb 25, 2007)

Divine, you are incredible!  You really need to write a book!


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## Divine Inspiration (Feb 25, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> This post is so inspirational. Thank you so much for this advice.  I can't wait to learn more from the books and start feeling the way I want to!
> 
> ETA: I'm gonna have LOTS of questions for you as time goes along. Hope you don't mind.



Certainly! I'm here to offer as much as I can. 

SQ, thank you!  I'm plugging away at it...one page at a time.  You ladies have been so supportive, and you guys will be the first to know when I'm done.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

just_DSP said:
			
		

> I'm sitting here crying and laughing at the same time. God is good!
> 
> After I posted my message, I received an email from a friend asking if I knew anyone who wanted a free, almost new recumbent exercise bike. I'm recovering from an illness and have prayed to regain my strength and lose this extra weight.
> 
> ...


 
I'm happy you received what you wanted!  Thanks for sharing your anecdote.


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## DSP (Feb 25, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> I'm happy you received what you wanted!  Thanks for sharing your anecdote.



Thank you!  This is just a reminder for me that my Father wants what's best for me and if I ask it and it's His will, it will come to me.


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## comike (Feb 25, 2007)

Might I add that the good thing about being a Christian is that even when I'm not thinking the right thoughts or speaking the right words, God continues to bless me in spite of myself.  In those moments of weakness and hopelessness I can depend upon, lean on the Lord.  I don't have to depend upon myself to consistently affirm the right things or think the right things in order to have a blessed life.  Thank God for that.  Thank God for His grace.  I have to agree that "The Power of Positive Thinking" by Norman Vincent Peale is very inspirational.  I would also recommend "The Wonderful Spirit Filled Life" by Charles Stanley.


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## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

The LOA is witchcraft.  There is none and there will never be any other defense or explanation for it.   

God says plainly, "I am God and I change not."   No where in His word will you ever see or hear Him say 'attract' what you want in life.  "Seek the Universe" for your fulfillment.   

But He does say, 'beware of satan and his devices' who comes to deceive even the very elect of God.  

In Isaiah 14:12

In Lucifer's fallen state he was still known as a light bringer, daystar and a son of the morning. *These are all counterfeits to the real thing.* We are the geniune and when we become an early riser to command the morning and capture the day, we displace the devil. 

Wake up saints.  Any of us who truly call Jesus Lord of our lives have no business dealving into the works of the devil.   We cannot serve two masters.  It's one or the other.  

The problem is that the human race has lost and has become so detached from whom they are created in His (God's) express image.  Debt and unfulfillment in material gain has caused so much doubt in God that it has become a 'let's get it for ourselves generation.  What do we need God for when all one has to do is seek the Universe or manifest what they want through good vibrations; any and every thing but PRAYER and a full and entrusted relationship with God.  

Did not Adam and Eve fall because of this very thing?  satan told Eve she could be her own God.  Life has not been right since.   The "Secret" is no secret, only a fool without a clue of who God really is would give credence to such foolishness.   Have you not noticed the mindset of some of the ones who have put their all into the LOA?  They're crying out for help that the LOA could not give them.   

God is not mocked people.  There are no substitutes nor anything that can be added to Him.   If you love Him and respect Him and believe in Him and treat Him as such as He so deserves to be treated.  I'm not addressing those *who have not *experienced God in whom He truly is...I'm addressing those who say, they are His.   If truly you are His than you have no need to succumb or even consider seeking any other path than His alone.  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart....lean NOT to your own understanding."

The LOA is simply another scheme of satan to entrap or lure more and more souls into his lordship and away from the true and pure and sole relationship with God alone and no other god. 

Job took the heat.  When all was taken from him, he still took th heat.  He did not curse God and die as his wife stated and as satan was out to prove.  Job stood in the midst of his trial and God honored him with more than what he had lost. 

Ask yourselves, what in hell do you want? What can the Universe offer you that God Himself cannot give you more and far better of?   Afterall, satan is the prince of the universe...is he not?  The ruler of the air?   Anything that one seeks of the universe is seeking the hand of satan.   Did he not try to tempt Jesus with the same?   He showed him all of universe and said, this is yours, if only you will bow down and worship me.    Jesus replied, "Get thee behind me satan."   

It's your choice.  Truly one on one with God or being lukewarm.  There is no halfway choice.   It's one or the other.    Just remember who God is and where he is not.   Why contaminate a pure relationship with God who is pure and just and Holy.  God who is Lord above all. 

People has plagerized God's principles for centuries and have used His resources for their own personal gain and not given Him full honor.  They take the credit for themselves.  Don't be fooled by those who practice witchcraft and call themselves Christians.   They're deceived.  For where is the pure demonstration of trusting God and giving Him Glory for all that He has done.  The glory is Not of us.   It's not of works which we can boast, but through our faith in Jesus Christ.

*Ephesians 2:*

 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 
2 *Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 
*3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 
9 *not of works* lest any man should boast. 
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 

God has never failed to prove to me and my family who He is.  I've never needed the LOA nor any other form of demonic persuasion.  It's God alone and His word alone.  His word has never failed me or mine nor those who truly know Him.  While heaven and earth may pass away, His word and His excellency shall stand forever. 

Jesus Reigns.

Peace and Blessings Everyone


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## comike (Feb 25, 2007)

Shimmie, you ain't never lied  .....thanks for your post!


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## MindTwister (Feb 25, 2007)

Just want to say welcome back Shimmie. Folks been looking for you


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## PaperClip (Feb 25, 2007)

Shimmie!!!!!    Missed you! (((HUGS!)))

When you said that before about witchcraft and LOA, that quickened my spirit because I know what I have been taught, esp. about the prophetic realm.... Yet between Oprah and even a couple of folk in real life, I began to explore this via the attention that The Secret has been getting.... I stick by what I said in this post with regard to the recognition about personal responsibility and accountability....

Basically, the Lord has been waiting on me to ACT on HIS WORD, which I had gotten lazy and apathetic about due to disappointment, discouragement, depression, anger, frustration, etc. So this topic has prompted me to go back to basics in my relationship with the Lord...to be specific about the desires of my heart (which should MATCH the Lord's plan for my life--Jeremiah 29:11) and stop the negative thoughts and words from entering my mind and exiting my mouth.

Like it has been said, this isn't new and it ain't no secret..... Also, whomever put the posts from the lady that was on the Oprah show? Wow! Now that was deep.... thank God for her boldness!


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## alexstin (Feb 25, 2007)

Welcome Back Shimmie! I agree with your post!

I completely understand where people are coming from but The LOA is a cheap copy of what God has for the believer.  The LOA of attraction gets you so focused on those things that you want. What about, "Seeking the kingdom first and everything you need being added?" What if God hasn't  given you that thing  you're trying to attract because He knows it'll destroy you?


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 25, 2007)

Welcome back, Shimmie and blessings upon you!

Praise the Lord for your boldness in speaking the truth, in love.  

In Romans 8 vs 6 - 8 it says:

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace" Because the carnel mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."  " So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

I believe that if people who say that they are believers in Jesus, then they need to spend more time in His Presence and truly hear what He has to say about life in God.  We don't need help from any book or any man....that is why the Lord sent us the Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us into all truth.  It's God who is true.  We must believe what He says about how to live our lives.  He said " My sheep know my voice and a stranger they will not follow."

Praise God for His Word, Praise Him for His Love and Praise Him because of who He Is...King of kings and Lord of lords!!!

Hallelujah!


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## StrawberryQueen (Feb 25, 2007)

Again, I agree with everything you said RR and you post made me really sad Shimmie.


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## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

Thank you all for your warm welcome.  My love goes out to each of you precious sisters.  I wish nothing but blessings and the best for you.  We have to hold strong to our faith.  It is a precious gift which did not come cheaply.  It came by the shedding of precious righteous blood of Jesus Christ.   God is still looking for us who will not compromise His faith in us.  Those who chose to press toward the mark and not look back and doubt.   

Look what happen to Abraham when he waivered in faith regarding having a son of his own?   Ishmael.   What happened with King Saul?  Out of disobedience and in a fallen state out of fellowship with God, he sought a witch, instead.

I know what witchcraft is.  I know.  Before I was saved, I studied it and were it not for God, who knows where I'd be today.   This is one of the reasons I am able to recognize it when I see it, no matter how cleverly it is disguised.   I can bear witness to the works that the LOA is not of God, no matter how much it may try to boast otherwise.

It' feeds on the 'fleshly mindset of man and its weakness.  As Nice and Wavy noted above about the carnal nature of man.   That what witchcraft it, the feeding upon the flesh and mindset.  A mindset that 'wills' to satisfy it's self at whatever cost.

I love Galations 5...  "A little leaven, leavens the whole lump."   

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 
19 *Now the works of the flesh are manifest,* which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 
20 Idolatry, *WITCHCRAFT*, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 

Ladies, what happen?  When did we ever feel we needed more than God could do for us?  What trial took us over the edge?  What delay made us waiver and doubt?  How many us will still be able to say that it God and God alone who delivered me and always will.   

In Daniel 3 ...I LOVE this...

29 Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is *NO OTHER GOD* that can deliver after this sort. 

Does anyone hear this? * No other God that can deliver after this sort.*
  No matter what you desire or are seeking in this life, no other God can deliver after this sort.  Not the LOA.   
And the devil has been out to prove this wrong ever since time began with man.  One of the most devastating things that can destroy a relationship is the tearing down of faith and trust in the one you love.   This is what satan wants.  the devil is out to steal God's glory and to steal our gift of faith in God alone.   

*Who can ascend into His Holy place?  Who of us is left to say, Lord, yet I still put my trust in you... not man. *

*Jesus trusted God all the way to the cross and beyond.  Jesus trusted God and waivered not at God's promise.  No man or woman who calls themself Christian should have any part of the LOA.   What need is there for a Christian other than their relationship with God?  *

*As a man thinketh*...one of the key lures of the LOA with Christians.   And yes, as a man thinketh ...

Hmmmm, if a man thinketh God is not enough...then for this man/woman, so it is.  

Pease and blessings and much love,


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## *Happily Me* (Feb 25, 2007)

Sigh...  LOA is NOT witchcraft. 

that's all i have to say.


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## PaperClip (Feb 25, 2007)

DSylla said:
			
		

> Sigh... LOA is NOT witchcraft.
> 
> that's all i have to say.


 
I kindly encourage you to expound on this.


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## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

comike said:
			
		

> Might I add that the good thing about being a Christian is that even when I'm not thinking the right thoughts or speaking the right words, God continues to bless me in spite of myself. In those moments of weakness and hopelessness I can depend upon, lean on the Lord. I don't have to depend upon myself to consistently affirm the right things or think the right things in order to have a blessed life. Thank God for that. Thank God for His grace. I have to agree that "The Power of Positive Thinking" by Norman Vincent Peale is very inspirational. I would also recommend "The Wonderful Spirit Filled Life" by Charles Stanley.


 
The Power of Positive Thinking is excellent...it falls in line with Phillipians 4:8...Whatsoever things are pure, just lovely, of a good report...think on these things.

But when it comes to things such as the LOA, be mindful of its source.  Be mindful of the instructors.  Be mindful of darkness which lies beneath.  Be mindful of it's intent and where it's leading.  Is the Lord Jesus Christ the Sheppard?   Is the path the path of rigteousness or is is of the flesh? Green pastures or manure in disguise?   

Has it come by way of prayer and seeking first the Kingdom of God and all of His righteousness...not man's promise for tangents.  How is God being given His glory.   Is the Holy Spirit leading and not man and man's ideals.  Who's hook is in my nose? To whom as I yoked?   

May God have mercy upon our souls.  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood...but the rulers of darkness who are out to devour us from the faith. 

May God have mercy....


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## Divine Inspiration (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't think the confusion for the ladies here is the universe vs. God...I think we all know and agree that God is the beginning and end of everything for us. 

The question, correct me if I'm wrong, was regarding manifesting things with positive thinking...if our minds are stayed on God and His will, are we not attracting His will and His blessings? I think we are.

I understand why LOA would be perceived as witchcraft, given the wrapping paper it's in, but God has commanded Christians to have faith & to exercise that faith. In doing so, we ATTRACT what God has for us. 

Example: 

A couple of weeks ago I had a LOT going on at once...I was very busy, and various elements of my life were shifting. I didn't have much time on my hands because I was so busy. Well, one afternoon I went to my car, and my check engine light was on. Ugh! I hate dealing with that kind of stuff, and I figured it would be costly to fix whatever was causing that. So, the voice of the Lord gently spoke to me and said, "Let me fix it." That night, I was talking some things over with God, and I realized that I was giving Him everything except my check engine light because I thought it was too petty or unimportant to Him. I gave that to Him, and He led me to Matthew 9:29...and He reminded me that I can pray from now until Jesus comes back but until I BELIEVE what I'm asking for, it won't happen. So I spent time that evening visualizing my check engine light not being on and thinking about the praise I would give God once I didn't have that headache anymore.

And sure enough, the next morning, my check engine light was not on and hasn't been since then. I'm convinced that my FAITH in God is what produced that result. What we miss is that prayer without faith is not nearly as effective as prayer with faith. 

Additionally, to argue that we don't need anybody or anything would be to discredit the Bible and any other anointed spiritual leader. The Bible was written by MEN who were given divine inspiration. So, I believe that God DOES send us people and things to minister to us and reveal His will to us. And I firmly believe TPOPT is one of those books...no, it's not the Bible, but it is certainly Biblically based, and the purpose is to show Christians how their FAITH can ATTRACT what God has for them. The book carefully points out that God's will must always be our first and foremost intention...once we understand and appreciate God's will, our faith can unlock the doors to achievement and abundance. This is not just speaking of "wordly gain" and material wealth but in doing GOD'S WORK. There are MANY Christians sitting on their behinds not doing what they've been called to do...the reasons are varied and complicated but the answer is faith in God. TPOPT doesn't encourage faith in self (which LOA does, I believe) but it does teach that by being a child of God, you are anointed and divine, and that you must set out to purposefully turn your visions into realities with your thoughts. 

The Bible does say that As a man thinketh, so is he...so if our thoughts are on God's blessings and abundance, what are we? If our thoughts are on God's will for our lives, what are we? If our thoughts are on positively affecting those around us with God's love, what are we? If our thoughts are on being the best we can be in order to be a light to those around us, what are we? 

Shimmie, I completely agree with what you're saying...that's why I chose not to read LOA books and went with TPOPT instead because there was Biblical support for every assertion made, and the book was about enhancing the Christian walk...not simply getting a new house or more money. I just think there's merit in the principle of positive thinking & faith being important in our personal development as Christians.


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## alexstin (Feb 25, 2007)

DI,

I think what you're saying is different from the LOA followers. Their thinking and desire  does not start with the Father. It may be about spirituality for them but it's not by the Holy Spirit.

I firmly believe that "As a man thinks, so is he." My desires are based on what God shows me by His spirit throught revelation of His word.  I could never be enthusiastic about LOA as I believe it believe it leads people down the path of being able to obtain whatever they can manifest. I believe it encourages you to focus more and more on yourself. That is completely opposite to the word

I think it's confusing to baby believers to equate walking with God and the blessings and benefits of that with LOA.


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 25, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> The responses from the board are interesting.
> 
> My issue is that if these people who swear there's no Biblical basis for the Secret REALLY knew the Bible, they'd know that there IS Biblical basis for positive thinking & the power of our thoughts. Not only does the Bible tell us that without vision we fail, it also says WE ARE WHAT WE THINK. That's the foundation of the Secret...the decision to package it as being from the "universe" is subjective, but God does indeed tell us that both our thoughts and our faith are the hinges that open the doors we want opened.
> 
> ...


 
Wow! I missed so much in 24hrs. Shimmie, I missed you too and I'm glad to see you're back!

Now to adress this post. I agree with many points. (Please see the bolded) To add-- *God blesses us through our faith when our thinking is in line with His will.* Positive thinking is not just a greedy (give me all I can get) prosperity docterine. Posittive thinking for a beliver is lining your will up with God's will to move the mountains He wants you to move. All of this to His glory and His kingdom.

However, there are many times God want to bless believers (health, relationships, financial, etc.) but many belivers have not moved (or acted) in faith. They have allowed negative thoughts (read: Satan) to invade their thought life and steal the blessing reserved for them. Joyce Meyer author of Battlefield of the Mind talks and writes about it all of the time.

This is why I can look at LOA from a biblical perspective. While Michael Beckworth and others may have their own agenda, I know the God I serve. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

As for the Christian book club, I'm glad to see others are interested, too! I'm going to bump the thread, and we can post our thoughts there. This way we can touch and agree OR keep each other in check about guarding our hearts and minds.


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## *Happily Me* (Feb 25, 2007)

alexstin said:
			
		

> DI,
> 
> I think what you're saying is different from the LOA followers. *Their thinking and desire  does not start with the Father.* It may be about spirituality for them but it's not by the Holy Spirit.
> 
> ...


not true.  

If we are made in  God's image, and God is a creator, wouldn't that make us all creators (on a lessor scale, perhaps).

You can still create your own life while giving thanks to God.  And yes, for me, it's all about God.  

I guess what it really comes down to is the LOA doesn't mention Jesus or the Holy Spirit.  It's a shame because I think some of you are missing out because some of you are unable to open your minds.  I really do not mean any disrespect.   

The LOA is a gift.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

alexstin said:
			
		

> DI,
> 
> * I think what you're saying is different from the LOA followers. Their thinking and desire  does not start with the Father. It may be about spirituality for them but it's not by the Holy Spirit.*
> 
> ...



@ the bolded: But this is why I started this thread in the CHRISTIANITY forum.  I know applying it to my life as a Christian IS different and this thread was not to simply recycle the LoA.  If that was the case, then I would have just kept reading those threads in the OT forum. 

It looks like ppl are stuck on the word/term "LOA" b/c everyone is going back and forth saying the SAME thing, but the second LOA is attached, it's of the devil.  Like I said, I chose the wrong  title, but I will never say that the LoA or the 'secret"was evil or bad.  I can see why some thinki of it as so wrong, but this ENTIRE thread has ONLY & ONLY directed it towards becoming closer to God and realizing how important it is to have a strong faith.

@ the underlined: I am a baby believer and I have never been confused about the source of the gifts and blessings that come from God.


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> Wow! I missed so much in 24hrs. Shimmie, I missed you too and I'm glad to see you're back!
> 
> Now to adress this post. I'm in total agreement. To add-- *God blesses us through our faith when our thinking is in line with His will.* Positive thinking is not just a greedy (give me all I can get) prosperity docterine. Posittive thinking for a beliver is lining your will up with God's will to move the mountains He wants you to move. All of this to His glory and His kingdom.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post. I agree.  

Also someone posted something about God still blessing us inspite of ourselves.  This is true also and that's why God is so good and all the more reason to have faith in Him.   Like I said, I wanted to be able to tie in some things from the LoA with Christianity and the truth that God loves us no matter what is a PERFECT example.  Nevertheless, it would be foolish to use that as an excuse to be content with losing your faith or positive thinkng to take God's love and blessings for granted-- and for me, that's where part of the LoA of attraction comes in.

And about this term, "LoA", I have no other way to describe it, so when I use it, let's please not try to take it as everything evil under the sun.


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## Divine Inspiration (Feb 25, 2007)

alexstin said:
			
		

> DI,
> 
> I think what you're saying is different from the LOA followers. Their thinking and desire  does not start with the Father. It may be about spirituality for them but it's not by the Holy Spirit.
> 
> ...



Yeah, but if you change a few labels, there are plenty of LOA followers who would tell you they believe what we believe...so like SD said, it comes down to labels and attachment of a title. I agree with you re: the emphasis on self, but I'd like to point out that that is TOTALLY subjective, and to my knowledge, LOA doesn't give you percentages of where to place your focus...that, IMO, is a personal decision and while some folks will place their focus on self or the universe, others will place their focus on God and the Holy Spirit. 

I understand why it COULD be confusing but it certanly doesn't have to be. Baby Christians, just like "grown" Christians, need to understand how their thoughts affect their lives and understand how those thoughts and their fatih, or lack thereof, are directly related to their relationship with God.


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## alexstin (Feb 25, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> @ the bolded: But this is why I started this thread in the CHRISTIANITY forum.  I know applying it to my life as a Christian IS different and this thread was not to simply recycle the LoA.  If that was the case, then I would have just kept reading those threads in the OT forum.
> 
> It looks like ppl are stuck on the word/term "LOA" b/c everyone is going back and forth saying the SAME thing, but the second LOA is attached, it's of the devil.  Like I said, I chose the wrong  title, but I will never say that the LoA or the 'secret"was evil or bad.  I can see why some thinki of it as so wrong, but this ENTIRE thread has ONLY & ONLY directed it towards becoming closer to God and realizing how important it is to have a strong faith.
> 
> *@ the underlined: I am a baby believer and I have never been confused about the source of the gifts and blessings that come from God*.



I should have said some baby believers


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> I don't think the confusion for the ladies here is the universe vs. God...I think we all know and agree that God is the beginning and end of everything for us.
> 
> The question, correct me if I'm wrong, was regarding manifesting things with positive thinking...if our minds are stayed on God and His will, are we not attracting His will and His blessings? I think we are.
> 
> ...



I also agree with this and this is why the Christian book club is such a great idea.  Had it not been for the people in this thread, I would have no idea where to find books that were Christian-based.  I tried searching online, but I guess I was using the wrong search words.  The only book that did inspire me spiritually was "The Game of Life and How to Play It."  I was so happy when I read it, but it's so short and there were still some things that I did not agree with.  

Anyway, I am happy and grateful for the information ppl have been so gracious enough to share with me in this thread (pro and con).  I will keep depending on the Lord to guide me on how to be closer to Him.  God did not make me read about the secret or LoA for nothing.  I know it.  He knows my heart & I have faith that He will continue to guide me.  

For those who disagree, well, that is the way God has guided you and sees fit for you.  If you have reached the place I would like to reach (in terms of a relationship with the Lord) without all of this 'stuff', then I am happy for you.


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## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> I don't think the confusion for the ladies here is the universe vs. God...I think we all know and agree that God is the beginning and end of everything for us.
> 
> The question, correct me if I'm wrong, was regarding manifesting things with positive thinking...if our minds are stayed on God and His will, are we not attracting His will and His blessings? I think we are.
> 
> ...


 
There's nothing wrong with postive thinking.  It's poison to think otherwise.  Negative thoughts make us sick and it also forfiets 'Hope' with is a precious Virtue.   As I shared above regarding Philipians 4:8.   Positive thinking is health to our entire being.   Without it where would our faith in God be? 

It's so strange that I logged in today.  My life has been so busy lately.  Last night I was with my girlfriends for our monthly prayer and fellowship.  We alternate at each other's homes.   When I arrived at my friend's home, she was sharing about tthis new DVD that she had been viewing....The Secret and wanted to know what I thought.   

Then today, I was home because of a snow storm, and it was a good time to check in.   The first thread to meet me was this one.     

So in two days I was *pushed* into giving this response.  I have to 'gut' this fish, expose it for what it is.   As Christians we either trust God or we don't. 

Why would a Christian in relationship with God even consider the LOA?  We know better.  Immediately, there should be a detour from it as it is not coming from God...however it instead is using God's principles illegally to entrap and deter people from depending upon a relationship with God in addtion to using His principles.

Everything in this earth that man has used to his advantage is from God's creation, yet how many are in right relationship Him?

This is the deception of the LOA.   "YOU' can do it.   And yes, they may throw God a bone or a puppy snack here and there, but none of these persons promoting this are men and women appointed by God Himself.  They are not His messengers.  They are plagerizers (sp?).  Using God for self gain and used of the devil to deceive.    

Again, why would a Christian even consider another source other than God Himself to live this life?  Something crucial is missing here.   Since when does a child of God need the world to instruct them with God's wisdom and HIs principles?   We are the Light and the Salt of the earth, not them.

This is a warning to Chistians.  Do not give credence of any kind to the LOA.  All that you have need of is on your face before God and in His word.   "Be not deceived, for God is not mocked."   There is no substitute for God.   

Yes, we are to have positive thinking....believing God's promises for none of them shall fail.  The joy of the Lord is our strength.   The promises of God are yea and amen.   The positive thinking that God Will.   God hears our cry.  God is always with us.  He's the Honey in the Rock; our Springs in the Dessert, the lifter of our heads, our Healer, our Provider, our Protecter, our Promise Giver and Keeper of His Word...We are more than Conquerors through Jesus Christ who loves us.  And among my favorites...'...no other God can deliver after this sort."    Oh Praise Him....!  

The only LOA is Jesus...who is *L*ord *o*f *A*ll.

I love your testimony, Divine Inspiration.   It's all about relationship.  We don't need any countefiets.   Many blessings to you.  I mean this so much.


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## alexstin (Feb 25, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> There's nothing wrong with postive thinking.  It's poison to think otherwise.  Negative thoughts make us sick and it also forfiets 'Hope' with is a precious Virtue.   As I shared above regarding Philipians 4:8.   Positive thinking is health to our entire being.   Without it where would our faith in God be?
> 
> It's so strange that I logged in today.  My life has been so busy lately.  Last night I was with my girlfriends for our monthly prayer and fellowship.  We alternate at each other's homes.   When I arrived at my friend's home, she was sharing about tthis new DVD that she had been viewing....The Secret and wanted to know what I thought.
> 
> ...




Love it!


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> Yeah, but if you change a few labels, there are plenty of LOA followers who would tell you they believe what we believe...so like SD said, it comes down to labels and attachment of a title. I agree with you re: the emphasis on self, but I'd like to point out that that is TOTALLY subjective, and to my knowledge, LOA doesn't give you percentages of where to place your focus...that, IMO, is a personal decision and while some folks will place their focus on self or the universe, others will place their focus on God and the Holy Spirit.
> *
> I understand why it COULD be confusing but it certanly doesn't have to be. Baby Christians, just like "grown" Christians, need to understand how their thoughts affect their lives and understand how those thoughts and their fatih, or lack thereof, are directly related to their relationship with God.*


EXACTLY.  I've been learning about the 'prinicples' of LoA in CHURCH from the very beginning and from my mother who is one of the most, if not the most, devout Christians I know.  I have seen sooo many references in the Bible supporting this as well.

It makes me sad to see that after all of the explaining, after all of the posts in this thread, that ppl still want to make it look like the intent was to disregard the Lord with the LoA instead of using it to become closer to Him.  It is NOT impossible.  And like DI said, I guess it is all subjective.  If ppl only want to see the back of something and never want to turn it around to see the other side, then that is all they ever will see.


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 25, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> There's nothing wrong with postive thinking. It's poison to think otherwise. Negative thoughts make us sick and it also forfiets 'Hope' with is a precious Virtue. As I shared above regarding Philipians 4:8. Positive thinking is health to our entire being. Without it where would our faith in God be?
> 
> It's so strange that I logged in today. My life has been so busy lately. Last night I was with my girlfriends for our monthly prayer and fellowship. We alternate at each other's homes. When I arrived at my friend's home, she was sharing about tthis new DVD that she had been viewing....The Secret and wanted to know what I thought.
> 
> ...


 
I like LOA=Lord of All.   I sent you a "I-missed-you" PM... I'm glad to see you're doing well. 

See-- this is why I wrote a series of Blog posts called the REAL Secret, which outlined some of the flaws/holes in the video presentation. *I think the LOA title is a stumbling block for many people not the actual laws or principles.* 

As the OP said... maybe she should have titled this thread "faith in action", because the initial intent was to talk about our faith in Jesus Christ as it pertains to this subject.

As believers, God gives us his Holy Spirit to discern who has been sent by Him. His sheep know his voice, right?


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> I like LOA=Lord of All.   I sent you a "I-missed-you" PM... I'm glad to see you're doing well.
> 
> See-- this is why I wrote a series of Blog posts called the REAL Secret, which outlined some of the flaws/holes in the presentation. *I think the LOA title is a stumbling block for many people not the actual laws or principles.*
> 
> ...


Okay it's official! I'm making a declaration:  

From now on, in the Christianity Forum, LOA will forsake its definition as Law of Attraction & will forever be known as....

*LORD OF ALL

*
Thanks you for your time and we will now go back to our regularly scheduled program. 
​
ETA: Kelouis, I would like to know where these blog posts are. I would love to read them.


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## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> I like LOA=Lord of All.  I sent you a "I-missed-you" PM... I'm glad to see you're doing well.
> 
> See-- this is why I wrote a series of Blog posts called the REAL Secret, which outlined some of the flaws/holes in the video presentation. *I think the LOA title is a stumbling block for many people not the actual laws or principles.*
> 
> ...


 
It's not the LOA *title* that is a stumbling block, but it's practices.  All through the word of God we will see how the children of Isreal stumbled, for they followed the ways of the Egyptians and other nations that did not know God.   

A perfect example of how we should stand is our faith is Daniel, and the 3 Hebrew men, Shadrach, Meshack and Abindego (sp?).   Daniel refused to worship in any other format other than God...Lord of All.   He was thrown into the Lion's den and no harm came upon him.    The three Hebrew REFUSED to bow down and worship as Neberanesor (sp?) ordered.  Thrown into the firey furnace, they were never burned neither did they perish.

Let's be mindful of something.   The devil will always have a counterfeit or a better / faster way of obtaiining the desires of life.

LOA is simply one path of deception.  There are many, many others.  So it is it NOT...HEAR ME, it is not, the LOA title that is being addressed.  It is however, the pratice whiich is witchcraft...SELF WILL.   New Age religions, come in many formats and the LOA is just one of them.  Yet they all have the same pattern,  Man's desires...Man is his own god...Man is the power and all suffiient one. 

Here's where CHRISTIANS need to be careful.  Whatever you spend your time practising, is your God.   Period.   God says we are to meditate on His word both day and night.  To keep His word before us. And to Walk according to His statutes and none other.    He says that we are not to go 'awhoring' after other gods.   His words, not mine.   To mix another format with His  is contamination and deadly.   For God's word is life unto our very bones and the peace that He gives us is not the peace that the world gives.   

Sooner or later, we come to end of ourselves. Then what?  The LOA or any other type of New Age practice cannot save us.   

Does not God's word say that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.   This means the LOA and all of its followers will have to bow and acknowledge that they were wrong.  Dead wrong.    

I'm not speaking to those who are without knowledge, but to us who know better, New Age is a deterant from a right relationship with God.  We who are seasoned in Christ Jesus know full well that satan will do anything to distract us for a full and developing  stronger relationship with God.  

It's like in marriage.  Husbands and wives begin to grow apart...Why?  Something came in to get them off focus.    There is no substitute for staying in the pure state of relationship, be it marriage and/or with our Father God.   We cannot mix the Bible with falacies ... or better yet fantacies.  

We are called to give our all to God.  There's no room for anything else.  God doesn't need a boost to help us.   And if we need a boost it comes from Him....only Him. 

The devil is using our flesh to deceive us.  The desires we have to have more.  Actually, if we chose to be better stewarts over what we have been given, we would have no need to seek outside of God for more.


----------



## kbragg (Feb 25, 2007)

Check out my siggy. I went point by point scripture by scripture on the Secret. It is not of God. Not denying the power of our thoughts, but the source is definately not of God. Ester Hicks and several others "channel" theses "spirits" that give them guidence. Oprah is NOT a Christian: In her own words: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/oprah-fool.htm Be careful saints.


----------



## kbragg (Feb 25, 2007)

Shimmie, your words have inspired me! I hope you don't mind, but I've copied some of your posts to another forum where we are having this discussion. I omitted your name


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## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> Okay it's official! I'm making a declaration:
> 
> From now on, in the Christianity Forum, LOA will forsake its definition as Law of Attraction & will forever be known as....
> 
> ...


 


But let's make it plain.

*Jesus Christ is Lord of All*

*and there isn't a thing *
*that the devil can do about it.*

*Somebody give God some praise.  *
*He's all that we ever need. *​


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## StrawberryQueen (Feb 25, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I kindly encourage you to expound on this.


Is it even worth it?  The way the thread is going, who's even going to listen?

And Divine, I must tell you again, you are truly Divinely inspired!


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## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

alexstin said:
			
		

> Love it!


 
Love you too, Pastor A...


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## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> Is it even worth it?  The way the thread is going, who's even going to listen?
> 
> And Divine, I must tell you again, you are truly Divinely inspired!



Yeah, this is what I wanted to avoid.  I want to learn more so I guess this is all part of the learning.  Gotta always look at both sides and opinions.  But now I feel guilty for starting this thread.  Either way, I did learn some things.


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## PaperClip (Feb 25, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> Yeah, this is what I wanted to avoid.  I want to learn more so I guess this is all part of the learning.  Now I feel guilty for starting this thread. Either way, I did learn some things.


 
Don't feel guilty about seeking knowledge. The Bible says in all thy getting, get understanding, yes? My pastor says we learn things by observation, communication, and revelation. All three of these things took place in this thread and you now know more than you did before to make an informed choice, yes? I know I did.... So your asking helped so many people.


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## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

comike said:
			
		

> I felt compelled to share this with you all. I was reviewing responses to "The Secret" show on Oprah's website and ran across some of the responses from the Christian woman in the audience that asked the question about "The Secret" and Christianity. Here are some of her posts from the website.
> 
> _Posted on: 02/16/2007 at 10:08pm (1395 of 5378)_
> _I was the one on the show today that asked the only question that had anything to do with Christianity and it was not how to blend the two. I have no desire what so ever to use the teachings of the cult leader (Michael Beckwith) and the snake oil salesman (James Ray)! I only went on the show as a way to bring up the fact that this has nothing to do with God, Jesus, Christianity or the like. The Secret states that the universe is where all the "gifts" come from. They don't recognize God as our Creator or our Father in heaven, or Jesus as His Son. I had asked them that question in person on the show, but it was during commercial. If you do any kind of research on either of these men, you will see that have nothing to do with God._
> ...


 
I'm just reading through page 1 of this thread.   All I can say is thank you, thank you, thank you for posting these comments.  

Isn't it interesting how God is always rejected when we share the truth?   Hmmmmmm.  I wonder why?   :scratchch:    

Oh well...


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## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> Yeah, this is what I wanted to avoid.  I want to learn more so I guess this is all part of the learning.  Gotta always look at both sides and opinions. But now I feel guilty for starting this thread. Either way, I did learn some things.


 
I wouldn't feel guilty for allowing the devil to be exposed for the liar and deceiver that he is.  You've been tricked and hood winked by the devil.  Who hasn't in this life?  God says that He will not have us ignorant.  He also says that we are not to be ignorant of satan's devices.   

The LOA and Christianity do not and never will they mix.   Jesus made it plain that we are to put our hands to the plow and not look back.  Meaning we are to follow Him and no other.  The path to righteousness is a straight and narrow path.  There is no room for any other way than God's way.  

Why are preacher's and other members falling by the wayside.  Their focus was off God.  They allowed themselves to be distracted and pulled into another direction which looked right and seemed okay and yet it wasn't.  The number one failure in Christianity is lost of faith in God and placing more faith in one's own ability and leaving God out.    

I was reading your original post and what stood out was that you wanted to change things in your friends life by your way of thinking...  

Only God can change this person's life.  God will not allow it any other way.  For there is a reason why your friend is having this problem... 'conseqences' of their own choices.  You can't change what God wants to do.  Yo can pray for them and believe GOD for a turn around.  But this is a matter between God and this person, not you.  You do not have the power to change anything about it.   

Get away from the LOA.  It's no accident that I saw this thread; especially since I had no plans on logging in.   I've been away for a while.  It's also no accident that one of my dear friends mentioned last night that she was viewing the 'Secret' DVD.   Two days in a row is no accident, but God's plan for me to speak up about what I know.  

You did the right thing creating this thread.  For in so doing someone reading that we may never know of, is being protected from making a big mistake.  The posts from CoMike regarding the Oprah show, speak volumes of truth for Christians.   Without your thread, it would not have been posted here. 

Peace and Blessings to you....


----------



## secretdiamond (Feb 25, 2007)

Shimmie, I'm not going to really comment on your post to me too much b/c I feel that you don't really get me at all and I would rather accept the fact that you don't agree than to try to keep restating the same things I have in this thread to defend myself.  You started going off in this thread b4 even reading it from the beginning.  You came in with prejudgements so me explaining anything won't change that & I'm okay with it.

One thing I will say is that about my friend.  I knew that would be misunderstood b/c I didn't divulge too much info on it.  But I was afraid for  losing my faith that God would handle the situation the best way possible.  I was scared and felt guilty b/c I have a lot to do with it and my actions could change things.  I didn't want to make the wrong move, but I also started doubting myself.  Moreover, the outcome of this situation affects _me_ personally as well.

Anyway, I'm done explaining.  So now, I am just going to take the info from this thread and live my life according to the way God (and no one else) directs me.  Thanks for your advice though.


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## StrawberryQueen (Feb 25, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> I'm just reading through page 1 of this thread. All I can say is thank you, thank you, thank you for posting these comments.
> 
> *Isn't it interesting how God is always rejected when we share the truth? Hmmmmmm. I wonder why?* :scratchch:
> 
> Oh well...


Exactly what does that mean?


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 25, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> Again, I agree with everything you said RR and you post made me really sad Shimmie.


 
And......?   Clue me in for your response is not clear on what you are sad about.    

Am I supposed to lie?  No.  God is being exhated not satan.  Lot's wife was sad and became a pillar of salt.  A rich young ruler gave up the opportunity of a lifetime to follow Jesus, for he was sadden when told to sell all of his riches and then asked byJesus, "Follow Me."   Instead, he turned away, from Jesus...sad...for as the word says, 'he had many riches.'

So who / whom / what are you sad about?  This is a wake up call to all Christians, including myself.   Be not deceived by the devil and his foolishness.

Please PM me.  As I don't want to challenge this thread any further.


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## StrawberryQueen (Feb 25, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> Shimmie, I'm not going to really comment on your post to me too much b/c* I feel that you don't really get me at all and I would rather accept the fact that you don't agree than to try to keep restating the same things I have in this thread to defend myself. You started going off in this thread b4 even reading it from the beginning. You came in with prejudgements so me explaining anything won't change that & I'm okay with it.*
> 
> One thing I will say is that about my friend. I knew that would be misunderstood b/c I didn't divulge too much info on it. But I was afraid for losing my faith that God would handle the situation the best way possible. I was scared and felt guilty b/c I have a lot to do with it and my actions could change things. I didn't want to make the wrong move, but I also started doubting myself. Moreover, the outcome of this situation affects _me_ personally as well.
> 
> Anyway, I'm done explaining. So now, I am just going to take the info from this thread and live my life according to the way God (and no one else) directs me. Thanks for your advice though.


 
That's very mature of you secret!  I pray that you will find answers to your questions.

Maybe a more appropriate thread would have been a discussion among Christian who have adopted pratices of the LoA?  I dunno, maybe the thread could be edited (by a moderator) to reflect that?

But some of the things I've seen in this thread make me sad.


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Feb 26, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> And......? Clue me in for your response is not clear on what you are sad about.
> 
> Am I supposed to lie? No. God is being exhated not satan. Lot's wife was sad and became a pillar of salt. A rich young ruler gave up the opportunity of a lifetime to follow Jesus, for he was sadden when told to sell all of his riches and then asked byJesus, "Follow Me." Instead, he turned away, from Jesus...sad...for as the word says, 'he had many riches.'
> 
> So who / whom / what are you sad about? This is a wake up call to all Christians, including myself. Be not deceived by the devil and his foolishness.


I'm going to do what Secret did and not waste my energy going back and forth with you-it's not necessary.


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Feb 26, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Don't feel guilty about seeking knowledge. The Bible says in all thy getting, get understanding, yes? My pastor says we learn things by observation, communication, and revelation. All three of these things took place in this thread and you now know more than you did before to make an informed choice, yes? I know I did.... So your asking helped so many people.


That's very true and your positivity is much appreciated!


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## secretdiamond (Feb 26, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> That's very true and your positivity is much appreciated!



Agreed!!  Thanks!


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## upandcoming (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm really, really happy about this thread. I really am. I think this is absolutely amazing. I COMPLETELY agree with the power of positive thinking, I KNOW that God wants us to put ourselves in positive places...with positive people, positive music (certain lyrics are the devil..), positive a lot of things. Why? Because we not only have a physical body but also a spirit, and we don't want either of them to be placed in harm's way. Our bodies, our heart, our everything are temples of God and so we much treat them as so. What does that mean? Try our best to follow His Word, love others, love Him, love ourselves. Accept Him as our Savior _and _Lord. And he wants us to be happy, and positive. Yes. Absolutely. 

So, on that point, yes - we need to DO something. God wants us to be hard workers, positive thinkers, kingdom builders etc....

BUT!! Only through Jesus Christ, the TRUE AND LIVING SON OF GOD WHO REIGNS NOW AND FOREVER. My problem with the Secret is this:

My bossstold me to watch it. He said it was really moving. I watched part of the Secret and also watched the Oprah special, the Secret Part II.  When I saw the man with dreads and his side partner, I decided to google them. 

I found out about one of the teachers, Dr. Michael Beckwith and found out about this place of worship, the Agape International Spiritual Center. Then I decided to look at FAQ. I wanted to know if it was Christian. This is what I saw:

"Is Agape Christian? And what about the Bible and Jesus?

No, and yes. 

Yes, some Agape members are Christian, and their personal encounter with the spirit of Jesus as an embodiment of the Christ Consciousness richly informs their spiritual lives.

*No, if by Christian you mean the acceptance of Jesus as the only savior and Christianity as the only path to God and eternal salvation.* Yes, in the sense that New Thought- Ancient Wisdom history includes the Gnostic teachings of the earliest Christian mystical sects, as well as the founders of the uniquely American New Thought Movement including Emmanuel Swedenborg, Ernest Holmes, Howard Thurman, and transcendentalists such as Ralph Waldo Emerson and others. 

The Bible is referenced in Dr. Beckwithâ€™s services and Agapeâ€™s classes. No, and yes. 

Yes, some Agape members are Christian, and their personal encounter with the spirit of Jesus as an embodiment of the Christ Consciousness richly informs their spiritual lives.

*No, if by Christian you mean the acceptance of Jesus as the only savior and Christianity as the only path to God and eternal salvation*. Yes, in the sense that New Thought- Ancient Wisdom history includes the Gnostic teachings of the earliest Christian mystical sects, as well as the founders of the uniquely American New Thought Movement including Emmanuel Swedenborg, Ernest Holmes, Howard Thurman, and transcendentalists such as Ralph Waldo Emerson and others. 

The Bible is referenced in Dr. Beckwithâ€™s services and Agapeâ€™s classes. However, the version that is used is a metaphysical, Gnostic-inspired edition translated and interpreted from the original Aramaic, rather than the Greek translation used in traditional Christian churches such as the King James version, or the Saint Gregory version used by the Catholic church. 

*Agape teaches that Jesus was not the great exception, but rather the great example*. Classically, the New Thought-Ancient Wisdom tradition of spirituality regards Jesus an enlightened being, one who attained cosmic consciousness, or liberation from a sense of separation from the Source of all that is. J*esus is revered as a wayshower, as an exemplar of unconditional love, selfless service, and self-mastery."

---*
My take on this? Its not Christian. They don't believe Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior. YES, Michael uses some Christian principles, kind of but he's not a Christian. I feel a little uncomfortable taking teachings from a non-Christian....not that non-Christians are evil or bad or less because uhm, no, we're all flesh but because I need to guard my spirit. So when it comes to mentors, teachings, books, movies, songs etc...I've got to becareful. 

2. Okay, I know Michael isn't the only "teacher" but...if you listen to the Secret for the first 10 minutes - you'll notice how there are many referencs to the Universe, and to YOU, to the greatest "secret" of the universe, the answer to your problems - the power of positive thinking. 

The answer to your problems is Christ Jesus and His teachings. HIS teachings include positive thinking, etc....some others do, but that doesn't mean you should follow everything they say. 

If you look at the titles of the people who are on the tape, they have metaphysicists and new-age thinkers and "practictioners"...Since when have I listened to metaphysicists and new aged thinkers? There are two types of believers: Christians, and non-Christians, believers, and non-believers. 

Then I decided to go to the Secret website, where it says, "Ask the Genie" to Contact them. 

http://www.thesecret.tv/home-synopsis.html

It also says:

"This is _The Secret_ to everything - the secret to unlimited joy, health, money, relationships, love, youth: everything you have ever wanted."

The "SECRET" is not the Secret, or is it positive thinking...it's Jesus Christ. So, in sum, I don't have a problem with positive thinking, but I do have a problem with false prophets, I do have a problem with people using Christian principles so some people, especially new to their faith, may get themselves twisted. I do have a problem with people who claim that this "SECRET"is a new era to mankind.

But I don't condemn anyone for believing in it, or the teachers, or Oprah or anything, or anyone for thinking its life breaking, but for me as a Christian, I don't think it's for me.

Disclaimer: These are all my opinions, I love this thread and think that it's great. I hope I didn't offend anyone, or this forum or w/e. If I've caused any issues let me know. 
Add-onHowever, this is the truth and I know it because GOD, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ lives and reign....forever...and ever. =D


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Feb 26, 2007)

togethernessinchrist said:
			
		

> I'm really, really happy about this thread. I really am. I think this is absolutely amazing. I COMPLETELY agree with the power of positive thinking, I KNOW that God wants us to put ourselves in positive places...with positive people, positive music (certain lyrics are the devil..), positive a lot of things. Why? Because we not only have a physical body but also a spirit, and we don't want either of them to be placed in harm's way. Our bodies, our heart, our everything are temples of God and so we much treat them as so. What does that mean? Try our best to follow His Word, love others, love Him, love ourselves. Accept Him as our Savior _and _Lord. And he wants us to be happy, and positive. Yes. Absolutely.
> 
> So, on that point, yes - we need to DO something. God wants us to be hard workers, positive thinkers, kingdom builders etc....
> 
> ...


I loved how you put this, it really spoke to me!


----------



## Divine Inspiration (Feb 26, 2007)

SQ, thank you lady!! I appreciate your attitude towards these kinds of things. It's refreshing and encourages progress. Thank you. 

Secret, you should NOT feel guilty or embarassed. You did a wonderful thing by starting this thread, and I think many of us have enjoyed this exchange and have drawn valuable ideas from it. Please don't allow close-minded or staunch people to keep you from exploring the things God has laid on your heart. There will always be people who believe they "have it all figured out" but as I've said before, that attitude lends itself to religous intolerance, even within the same sect. So, my advice to you would be to be encouraged and continue to seek God in all that you do, and He will certainly reveal Himself to you. 

TIC, your post was balanced and well said!


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

togethernessinchrist said:
			
		

> I'm really, really happy about this thread. I really am. I think this is absolutely amazing. I COMPLETELY agree with the power of positive thinking, I KNOW that God wants us to put ourselves in positive places...with positive people, positive music (certain lyrics are the devil..), positive a lot of things. Why? Because we not only have a physical body but also a spirit, and we don't want either of them to be placed in harm's way. Our bodies, our heart, our everything are temples of God and so we much treat them as so. What does that mean? Try our best to follow His Word, love others, love Him, love ourselves. Accept Him as our Savior _and _Lord. And he wants us to be happy, and positive. Yes. Absolutely.
> 
> So, on that point, yes - we need to DO something. God wants us to be hard workers, positive thinkers, kingdom builders etc....
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for your post.  I applaude you. 

I have to say that your disclaimer is not an opinion, it is a fact.   We either stand for God in all that He is or we don't.  You took a stand for Him...you exposed the origin of this subject where satan has rule.   There is no in between for us as Christians.  Our biggest fear would be in offending God..not man.    

Blessings to you...


----------



## secretdiamond (Feb 26, 2007)

StrawberryQueen said:
			
		

> That's very mature of you secret!  I pray that you will find answers to your questions.
> 
> * Maybe a more appropriate thread would have been a discussion among Christian who have adopted pratices of the LoA?  I dunno, maybe the thread could be edited (by a moderator) to reflect that?*
> 
> But some of the things I've seen in this thread make me sad.



Thanks.  It's not easy to sit quietly when you know you have the right intentions, but are being made to look like you aren't standing up for God.  

I like the idea bolded.  Maybe the word adopted could be changed to "adapted" because that's what I feel like I'm doing.

And I'm only going to look at the parts of this thread that were positive and made me happy in my eyes.  I even loved some of the posts negating the 'secret' as they allowed me to learn more like TIC's post.  They were also enlightening and very informative.


----------



## secretdiamond (Feb 26, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> SQ, thank you lady!! I appreciate your attitude towards these kinds of things. It's refreshing and encourages progress. Thank you.
> 
> Secret, you should NOT feel guilty or embarassed. You did a wonderful thing by starting this thread, and I think many of us have enjoyed this exchange and have drawn valuable ideas from it. Please don't allow close-minded or staunch people to keep you from exploring the things God has laid on your heart. There will always be people who believe they "have it all figured out" but as I've said before, *that attitude lends itself to religous intolerance, even within the same sect.* So, my advice to you would be to be encouraged and continue to seek God in all that you do, and He will certainly reveal Himself to you.
> 
> TIC, your post was balanced and well said!


Thanks for your posts in this thread DI they are of great value to me and are very encouraging.

@the bolded: You make a very good point here.  I didn't realize how true this is until now.  But I'm still going to be happy and willing to learn all that I can!


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> SQ, thank you lady!! I appreciate your attitude towards these kinds of things. It's refreshing and encourages progress. Thank you.
> 
> Secret, you should NOT feel guilty or embarassed. You did a wonderful thing by starting this thread, and I think many of us have enjoyed this exchange and have drawn valuable ideas from it. Please don't allow close-minded or staunch people to keep you from exploring the things God has laid on your heart. There will always be people who believe they "have it all figured out" but as I've said before, that attitude lends itself to religous intolerance, even within the same sect. So, my advice to you would be to be encouraged and continue to seek God in all that you do, and He will certainly reveal Himself to you.
> 
> TIC, your post was balanced and well said!


 
DI, if you are speaking of me, I can't and will not compromise the truth of God.  

I must proclaim God for who He is at any cost.   The devil cannot beat me.   he's already a defeated foe.   I rather see someone get their feelings hurt now than see them go to hell.  

I say this all for a reason.  As Christians, we have to stop apologizing for telling the truth.   The world has no problem telling us what they want and pushing God out of our schools, out of our churches...yes our churches and out of who He really is.   The TV/Media is flooded with their mess, but let God be glorified and then there's a big huff about it.       

But this is not about you....I know your heart as a Christian.  It's God love that moves you.  But if I am one that you are referring to as stauch, I need to make it clear that my replies are moved also by the love of God, if not more.  I spoke the truth on this matter.  And I still find it interesting how God planned it as I had no intention on being here.  

You see, it was* my* original thread on this topic that the OP was referring to in her first post.  Therefore I couldn't be more pleased that this thread was started.  For not just in my posts, but in others outside of this forum have proven that this is not for Christians to partake in.  That doesn't make us stauch for telling the truth.  

I'm done.  All I have to say on this matter has been said, for now.  I even have information to share with my friend. 

I wish each of you blessings.


----------



## upandcoming (Feb 26, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Thank you for your post. I applaude you.
> 
> I have to say that your disclaimer is not an opinion, it is a fact. We either stand for God in all that He is or we don't. You took a stand for Him...you exposed the origin of this subject where satan has rule. There is no in between for us as Christians. Our biggest fear would be in offending God..not man.
> 
> Blessings to you...


 
Shimmie that is so true. It's either all or nothing. Thank you, I've editted it. This thread is just really ministering to me, I don't even know. When I saw the first 10 minutes of the Secret, my spirit was NOT having it. I really couldn't finish the rest. Then when I read about it, and did my research on the teachers and whatnot, I felt a strong no. It's amazing how the Holy Spirit just moves...

And it really saddens me, because so many people are lost, they know they have a void within them because they don't have a relationship with Christ...and it's just, God is REAL. Don't listen to the liars. So satan comes in, and the satan within individuals comes in, and twists and lies and often times knows that people yearn for Christ, and so satan and people (and the satan within them) uses things that may _seem _Christian like to entice people in, including believers.

And they're still lost. But then I'm not sad because God has it all under control. God knows our hearts and will move. This is just showing me the importance of knowing our Word, because hey, guess what? Anyone can use the Word and try to twist it then add their own stuff in it, making it far from the Truth, the not-truth. Anyone can go to Bible gateway, google a phrase or a scripture, and then make it seem like they're a teacher.

I'm not condeming anyone, I'm really not but this is just on my heart. And I really need to pray....and finish my work and go to bed. It's been real. Hope this convo keeps going..

Thanks for the nice comments, ladies =)


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

togethernessinchrist said:
			
		

> Shimmie that is so true. It's either all or nothing. Thank you, I've editted it. This thread is just really ministering to me, I don't even know. When I saw the first 10 minutes of the Secret, my spirit was NOT having it. I really couldn't finish the rest. Then when I read about it, and did my research on the teachers and whatnot, I felt a strong no. It's amazing how the Holy Spirit just moves...
> 
> *And it really saddens me, because so many people are lost, they know they have a void within them because they don't have a relationship with Christ...and it's just, God is REAL. Don't listen to the liars. So satan comes in, and the satan within individuals comes in, and twists and lies and often times knows that people yearn for Christ, and so satan and people (and the satan within them) uses things that may seem Christian like to entice people in, including believers.*
> 
> ...


 
You really have it together in Christ.   You're sold out for Him...all or nothing.   Take care of this thread and be the leader God has called you to be.  Don't waiver one bit for anyone.   You owe nothing to no one except Jesus Christ.    

Blessings...


----------



## LovelyL8E (Feb 26, 2007)

togethernessinchrist said:
			
		

> I'm really, really happy about this thread. I really am. I think this is absolutely amazing. I COMPLETELY agree with the power of positive thinking, I KNOW that God wants us to put ourselves in positive places...with positive people, positive music (certain lyrics are the devil..), positive a lot of things. Why? Because we not only have a physical body but also a spirit, and we don't want either of them to be placed in harm's way. Our bodies, our heart, our everything are temples of God and so we much treat them as so. What does that mean? Try our best to follow His Word, love others, love Him, love ourselves. Accept Him as our Savior _and _Lord. And he wants us to be happy, and positive. Yes. Absolutely.
> 
> So, on that point, yes - we need to DO something. God wants us to be hard workers, positive thinkers, kingdom builders etc....
> 
> ...




I really liked how you broke this down.  I would like to say that I was a member of Agape International spiritual center. Basically they do not believe that Jesus is the son of God and savior.  They do not believe there is a heaven or hell or the devil.  They blend every religion in one, from 'christianity' to paganism.  Basically it is a religious science based organization.  The Bible is never used or really referenced in their services.  They are good people but misinformed. 

At this time I have left that center and have return to my roots.  Jesus Christ my Lord and savior.  I believe that He died on the cross and that God raised him from the dead and He lives-Rom 10:9-10 

On a Biblical basis there are many scriptures regarding the "secret". The main scripture for me would be Philippians 4:6-8.  

6Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. 

 8Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirableâ€”if anything is excellent or praiseworthyâ€”think about such things.

These types of teaching regarding the "universe" pull at people heart strings and gives them that feel good feeling.  But God's word says the heart is deceitful and that we should guard our hearts. Jeremiah 17:9 and Proverbs 4:23.  If a person is a christian everything should be measured against God word.

Note: this is also my opinion and hope not to offend anyone on the forum.


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 26, 2007)

I agree, I like the way togethernessinchrist broke it down. I also wanted to thank you for pulling the Philippians 4:6-8 Scripture.

I think the OP's intent was really grounded in this verse. And I think that this really was supposed to be the focus of this thread... not the debate that it has become. 

However, I am thankful for the debate, because it keeps us grounded and helps people realize that we can not worship the law but rather the Law Giver (the Trinity). 

The principles do not change no matter what language you use to describe them, because God is not a man so He can not lie nor go back on His word.  This is why I think good things (or bad things) happen to both belivers and non believers. 

However, a Christian can not just pick and choose which laws we want to tap into. Because just like we want to tap into positive thinking or LOA as some may call it, a follower of Christ will believe the whole word of God (Bible) and the other laws (blessings and chastisments) that it describes.

From what I'm reading, I think that many of us desire to speak this thought in love... The debate started because some very caring sisters want to admonish us to stay close to Jesus Christ.

However, as I said before. God's sheep know His voice. We can hear it clearly. He has given us his Holy Spirit to discern teachers who will lead us towards him and those who will lead us into witchcraft-- which the Bible describes as rebellion & trusting other things besides him, not just divination. Please see: KJV 1 Samuel 15:22-23:

22 So Samuel said: "Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams. 23 For *rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft*, And *stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry*. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king." 

The NIV translates stubborness as arrogance...

As DI stated earlier-- While we can speak with authority through the power of the Holy Spirit-- none of us has it ALL figured out... This line of thinking is what makes a Baptist say a Catholic is in danger of going to hell (or vice versa). It also makes a Pentacostal say a devout Methodist is in danger if she's wearing make up, perming her hair or not speaking in toungues.  Yet they all believe in the power of Jesus Christ. 

*I hope that the debate can now move towards a discussion of faith in action*.





			
				LovelyL8E said:
			
		

> I really liked how you broke this down. I would like to say that I was a member of Agape International spiritual center. Basically they do not believe that Jesus is the son of God and savior. They do not believe there is a heaven or hell or the devil. They blend every religion in one, from 'christianity' to paganism. Basically it is a religious science based organization. The Bible is never used or really referenced in their services. They are good people but misinformed.
> 
> At this time I have left that center and have return to my roots. Jesus Christ my Lord and savior. I believe that He died on the cross and that God raised him from the dead and He lives-Rom 10:9-10
> 
> ...


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## pebbles (Feb 26, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> . . . Hmmmm, if a man thinketh God is not enough...*then for this man/woman, so it is. *


 
For me, this is really the whole heart of the matter. Thanks, Shimmie!!


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## pebbles (Feb 26, 2007)

togethernessinchrist said:
			
		

> I'm really, really happy about this thread. I really am. I think this is absolutely amazing. I COMPLETELY agree with the power of positive thinking, I KNOW that God wants us to put ourselves in positive places...with positive people, positive music (certain lyrics are the devil..), positive a lot of things. Why? Because we not only have a physical body but also a spirit, and we don't want either of them to be placed in harm's way. Our bodies, our heart, our everything are temples of God and so we much treat them as so. What does that mean? Try our best to follow His Word, love others, love Him, love ourselves. Accept Him as our Savior _and _Lord. And he wants us to be happy, and positive. Yes. Absolutely.
> 
> So, on that point, yes - we need to DO something. God wants us to be hard workers, positive thinkers, kingdom builders etc....
> 
> ...


 
Stand up and take a bow, sweetie!!  God Bless You!!


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## divinefavor (Feb 26, 2007)

Just wanted to say that this is a great thread!


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## alexstin (Feb 26, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> SQ, thank you lady!! I appreciate your attitude towards these kinds of things. It's refreshing and encourages progress. Thank you.
> 
> Secret, you should NOT feel guilty or embarassed. You did a wonderful thing by starting this thread, and I think many of us have enjoyed this exchange and have drawn valuable ideas from it. *Please don't allow close-minded or staunch people to keep you from exploring the things God has laid on your heart.* There will always be people who believe they "have it all figured out" but as I've said before, that attitude lends itself to religous intolerance, even within the same sect. So, my advice to you would be to be encouraged and continue to seek God in all that you do, and He will certainly reveal Himself to you.
> 
> TIC, your post was balanced and well said!



This was so unnecessary, DI. Why not agree to disagree without the veiled insults? We are all created in the image of God and as such should be given the respect to disagree without the name calling.


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## Keen (Feb 26, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> SQ, thank you lady!! I appreciate your attitude towards these kinds of things. It's refreshing and encourages progress. Thank you.
> 
> Secret, you should NOT feel guilty or embarassed. You did a wonderful thing by starting this thread, and I think many of us have enjoyed this exchange and have drawn valuable ideas from it. Please don't allow close-minded or staunch people to keep you from exploring the things God has laid on your heart. There will always be people who believe they "have it all figured out" but as I've said before, that attitude lends itself to religous intolerance, even within the same sect. So, my advice to you would be to be encouraged and continue to seek God in all that you do, and He will certainly reveal Himself to you.
> 
> TIC, your post was balanced and well said!



I agree this was a great thread. Whether we agree or disagree we still need to discuss these issues.


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## pebbles (Feb 26, 2007)

alexstin said:
			
		

> This was so unnecessary, DI. Why not agree to disagree without the veiled insults? We are all created in the image of God and as such should be given the respect to disagree without the name calling.


 
Agreed. I'd hate to have to close the thread.


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## gn1g (Feb 26, 2007)

Hello Shimmie,

missed you around here.

I've been thinking about this thread.  Do you remember *the story of moses and the magicians?* Everything that moses could do the magicians could do also but in the end Moses had the victory over the magicians.


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## Omoge (Feb 26, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> I also agree with this and this is why the Christian book club is such a great idea.  Had it not been for the people in this thread, I would have no idea where to find books that were Christian-based.  I tried searching online, but I guess I was using the wrong search words.  The only book that did inspire me spiritually was "The Game of Life and How to Play It."  I was so happy when I read it, but it's so short and there were still some things that I did not agree with.
> 
> Anyway, I am happy and grateful for the information ppl have been so gracious enough to share with me in this thread (pro and con).  I will keep depending on the Lord to guide me on how to be closer to Him.  God did not make me read about the secret or LoA for nothing.  I know it.  He knows my heart & I have faith that He will continue to guide me.
> 
> For those who disagree, well, that is the way God has guided you and sees fit for you.  If you have reached the place I would like to reach (in terms of a relationship with the Lord) without all of this 'stuff', then I am happy for you.




Florence Scovel Shinn
Florence Shinn here was a skilled artist who lived in New York City during the early twentieth century.  She also became known as a skilled METAPHYSICAL teacher and SPIRITUAL LUMINARY.  Her lectures were well-attended and her books, including the classic The GAME of LIFE and HOW TO PLAY IT, have been very popular since the 1920s.  Florence Scovel Shinn is widely appreciated as one of the greatest American spiritual teachers of the twentieth century.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

I also started reading about THE GAME OF LIFE and found it to be inspirational on several levels, but somethings made me slightly uncomfortable and I was ready to overlook them. But then I read more about the author and dropped the book immediately. 
Anytime I see anything that says Metaphysical and has stuff to do with Spriit guides makes me feel unsettled. 
I used to read up on the occult when I was very lackadaisical about God, just out of curiousity. And almost everything about westernized occult was Metaphysics this and Metaphyisics that. 
So it was very puzzling to me that someone could be a Christian and a Metaphysical teacher.

I guess that's what LOA, The secret, Game of Life and some other self help/positive thinking books writen by "Spiritual Guides" and "Metaphysical Teachers/dabblers" boils down to: Positive messages, from questionable messengers (questionable from a Christian perspective).  

I have a bunch of questions about this myself.

So what is more important to you as a Christian, the message or the messenger? 


Do you think Christians should be thankful for the spark that LOAism has lit? Even if you don't think its of God (Thats up to debate), should you be thankful for that fact that use of the principles have somehow strengthened your faith in God?   Is that even possible? 



Why is it that all of a sudden, everyone is paying attention to "the power of positive thinking"? It has been around for a while and in fact it is almost commonsensical , but why the sudden "wave of interest"?




Has anyone heard of the 100th Monkey theory and do you believe it? Do you think it has anything to do with the sudden wave of LOAism/ Secretism? 



I really don't like seeing 100 threads about the same thing, so I am posting this in this thread as I feel it all ties together, I hope you don't mind Secretdiamond.


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## alexstin (Feb 26, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> Florence Scovel Shinn
> Florence Shinn here was a skilled artist who lived in New York City during the early twentieth century.  She also became known as a skilled METAPHYSICAL teacher and SPIRITUAL LUMINARY.  Her lectures were well-attended and her books, including the classic The GAME of LIFE and HOW TO PLAY IT, have been very popular since the 1920s.  Florence Scovel Shinn is widely appreciated as one of the greatest American spiritual teachers of the twentieth century.
> 
> 
> ...



We all want to be able to control our circumstances. More so then ever before I believe the world feels helpless and is tired of the way they've been living. They want to change but don't know how and so they latch on to whatever seems to feel that void.

We are managers by nature. From the beginning God wanted us to have control. Unfortunately we  lost the ability to control our lives and environment when Adam and Eve fell. God made a way for us to regain that control. It's not through attracting things in your life but submitting to Holy Spirit who in turn will lead you into all truth. This will then position you to receive every good and perfect gift that the Father has for you.

Remember, the very fact that you exist means that God had a specific work just for you. Once you understand your purpose and begin to walk in it, God releases everything that you need to fulfill it.

Of course God can bless just because He's a gracious Father but ultimately  God wants to provide you with the things that He sees fit for the journey He has called you on.


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## Omoge (Feb 26, 2007)

I totally get your intent Secretdiamond, I am in the same place right now. Trying to grow in faith, there's only so much I can pray to God about. I have to start doing also and thinking positive consistently. You can ask God to change your thinking all you want, but you also have to be actively working with God to change your thinking. 
I guess the question is should I give credit to LOA for reminding me of principles I used to practice,  (some how I fell of the wagon)?  

The thing is if LOA fever had not happened( as much as I disagree with alot of it teachings) , it would have taken me longer or taken something drastic for me to go back to those "faith in action" and "positive thinking" principles.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Agreed. I'd hate to have to close the thread.


 
I agree too, pebbles.  When christians have to succumb to name calling, then something certainly is wrong.  I pray that those who feel like this is the answer, will humble themselves and see that we should be able to come together, whether we agree or not, and have a conversation about the TRUTH.  It's all about Jesus...nothing more.

I love coming to the Christian Fellowship Board and sharing with the other saints of God.  I think we need to really take a look at ourselves and see if we are allowing the enemy to come in an take away from what this board stands for.

In the book of *Acts 4:32, it says..."All the believers were one in heart and mind." * This is where we need to be, saints of God...with one heart and one mind here on this board.  We must be able to come together and share what the Lord is doing in our lives.  Time and time again we read how the people tried to stop the apostles from teaching and preaching the Word of God, but...they never stopped.  Even with flogging, imprisonment and the like, they kept going with one heart and one mind, always lifting up the Name of the Most High God, Jesus Christ. Sharing the Gospel. This is what we must do, even in a forum such as this.  We must always remain in an atmosphere of togetherness.  People are always watching to see what will the Christians fight about today.  We must not let our good be evil spoken of...no matter what.  Our mission is to lead others to Jesus Christ.  We are ambassadors for Him.  We must lead by example.

_*I pray that the Lord will close every door of strife and contention that has crept its way into the hearts of the people.  I pray that every person here recognizes that he/she is a child of God and that we are together from the household of faith.  That the One and only true and living God will permeate our hearts and our minds to have His Heart and His Mind.  To want what He wants, to love what He loves and to hate what He hates.  To come together and know that if God be for us, who can prosper against us?  I pray that the Living God breathes upon us and causes us to be vessels of honor, meet for the Master's use, prepared unto every good work, in the Name of Jesus.  I pray that as we come together to fast and pray for every person in these forums, that the grounds will be shakened and that freedom will come forth in their lives.  I pray that others will see a difference in us as believers and desire to have the Peace that we have and ask how can they get this peace?  I pray that we will share the Gospel without prejudice and that we will do it in love...knowing and understanding that the Lord doesn't want anyone to perish, but ALL to come to repentance.  I pray that we will do this together, so that WE may see lives changed and God will get ALL THE GLORY.  In Jesus Name.  AMEN.*_

That's what its about people....seeing lives change.  

May the Peace of God, which passes ALL understanding, guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.

Blessings to you, always.


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## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

pebbles said:
			
		

> For me, this is really the whole heart of the matter. Thanks, Shimmie!!


 
*It is* the whole heart of the matter.  We either trust God and ONLY God or we don't.   The number one compliment that I receive over and over in my life in this forum and *out of this forum* is that "I am so positive."  

The entire source of it has come from only one person.  My faith and love in the Lord Jesus Christ.  I believe Him.  Period!  

And I refuse to allow the devil to interfere with it.  Too great a price has been paid for me to have it.  I love God and have too much respect for who He is to allow Him to be compromised or watered down by any means.   

I have to share this scripture pertaining to the Christianity forum.  It's something to pray about:

I Samuel 4:21-22

21 And she named the child *ICHABOD*, saying, The glory is departed from Israel: because the ark of God was taken, and because of her father in law and her husband. 
22 And she said, The glory is departed from Israel: for the ark of God is taken. 

*This is what saddens me:* 

Christians are becoming too weak in their faith.   For the fear of offending someone, Christians are accepting what they should, instead, be taking a stand against.   We cry because prayer has been taken out of schools and then blame it on the devil....but it was us who allowed him to do it. 

We shutter at the horror of gay marriages and gay ministers, and gay rights and the infiltration of it into our homes, our schools, our children and now our churches. .... but it was still us who allowed it to happen.  

What's next?  No matter how 'little' a thing may appear, we have to nip it in the bud.   Jesus wasn't playing games about separating the tares from the wheat.   Why?  Because he knows the influence of one over the other.  *And what's frightening,* is that God always warned His children from being associated with others who were not of *His *faith and *His* law.   

He knew that as Christians, *we* would be the weaker to succomb to the beliefs of others ..... and why is that?   Because of fear...fear of man and what he or she may think of us.  'We' don't want our beliefs to offend.  Yet we allow them to offend ours; and then dictate to us what we can and cannot do or say as Christians.   

Why in Jesus' Name do Christians go on TV and *Apologize *for being a Christian?   I will never forget how TD Jakes whimped out when he was on Larry King's show a few years back.   He didn't speak a word about Jesus and His Lordship.   He was a whimp.   Since when is Larry King God?  Since when is Oprah God?  

I making a point.  If we do not take a stand for our faith and what's right in Jesus Christ, then we may as well just call it quits and not even dare to call ourselves Christians.   Just make the devil god, serve him, and don't look back.  That's exactly where Christianity is headed.  

We as Christians KNOW that the New Age Movement is a travesty and a dishonor to God and who He is.   They do not acknowledge Jesus as Lord.  And yet, we still want to take a look or check it out to see if it will fit into 'our' lives to make life better.     

*AND This* is what pulled me into this thread when I read the following (below)  and it grieved me.  It totally grieved my spirit and I thought.  Oh God, is this what this forum has come to?  What compromise?  Alienation from you?  Is this the book of Hosea all over again?  Spiritual Adultery in worship?   

*Before I post what drew me in here*, I make no judgment upon the character of the person who posted.   My issue is with *the subject* and how satan is out to blind and deceive Believers into thinking that the LOA is harmless.   This is not a game.  satan is out to deceive and rob you of your faith in God and God alone.   He is trying to weaken us.  For he knows the more time we spend with God alone, the stronger we become.  And the weaker he becomes against us.   



> I don't want to refute or dispute the LoA.  *Instead, I would like to embrace it even more, while applying it to my walk with God. I believe that one can be a Christian and believe in the Law of Attraction without compromising his/her relationship with God.*
> 
> I would like this thread to be used for us to* discuss how we can apply the LoA to our lives as Christians and fuse it together into one big application of FAITH.*   Can we share thoughts, life experiences, info, scriptures, etc? For those who have mastered it, can you help us novices out? Thanks & God bless.


 
Lord Jesus have mercy.   Please have mercy.        

I'm not posting this to cause trouble.  But it is a warning.  *Mark it.*  WE *cannot mix witchcraft with pure worship and a pure relationship with God.*  There is no such thing as a blend of the two.  Nor will there ever be.  

How effect will our prayers be if we allow this?   The LOA DOES NOT belong in the Christianity forum or in any Christian's life in any format.  If this happens, then we may as well close this forum down, for it will not be of God.  The presence of God will not be here among us.  There will be a sign placed upon the Christianity forum "Ichabod" ... the presence of the Lord has departed.  

We need healing and deliverance; marriages need to be saved; children need protection and so many other issues of life that only prayer and our relationship with God can handle.   And the devil knows that without our faith in God, that we will be defeated in helping others as we are called.  

Jesus said that because we believe in Him, we will do HIS works and greater works we will do, because we are His own.   How can we perform these greater works without God in our hearts completely... and uncompromised. 

The members here can hate me or love me.  I truly do not care.  I don't apologize for taking a stand against the devil and his mess.   I'm not afraid of Larry King or Oprah and certainly not any devil.  I've been given full authority over him by the shed Blood of Jesus.  I'd be a fool to wimp out because somebody doesn't like it.   I have great news.  Jesus is still Lord.  And it's not changing for anyone or any devil.  It's too late to try and change me.  I've spent 25 years of my life as a Christian casting many a devil out of people's homes and out of them.   I'm not about to back down.   The same people who get angry with me are also the very same ones who come to me for prayer.  They know I don't play. 

My care is for the truth of God to be brought forth and to warn people ahead of time before they get into something that is way above their heads.  witchcraft is nothing to play with.  There is nothing innocent about it.  I've been watching the results of many on this forum and it's not pretty and it's not the answer to what they have been seeking.    If it were than why is so much uncertainty attached to it?  Why is there still so much confusion in their lives?  God is not the author of confusion.  But the LOA obviously is.  

Do you see what the devil is doing?  he's having a hayday with the mindset of those who practice this.     

There are also innocent children who may come across this thread and we will be held accountable for what we say regarding this subject.   We sit and wonder why our children are acting 'crazy'... again an ungodly influence has come in.  Why?   Because we allowed it to.  

We MUST choose our god.  Or simply choose God and trust Him AND take a stand for Him.   It's just that simple.  One other thing.  Since when is God an opinion?  He's GOD!  Stop apologizing for being a Christian.   

If we are ashamed of Jesus, then He will be ashamed of us.  The thing is, He's so loving that He still loves us anyway and shows great faith and pride in us even when we are ashamed of Him in front of others.    We owe Him better then we've been giving Him.  Far better.   

I know I'm 'hard' with this subject.   But it has to be this way.  We cannot play games here.   

Believe it or not...this was totally written in love.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> I totally get your intent Secretdiamond, I am in the same place right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
*What?  *


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 26, 2007)

pebbles said:
			
		

> Agreed. I'd hate to have to close the thread.


 
That's true... But she was not calling any particular person out... She was just stating her opinion. Even if the majority doesn't agree with her, doesn't she have that right?


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## gn1g (Feb 26, 2007)

Preach shimmie. Say on, say on!

I needed to hear that.  We must worship Him in spirit and truth.

LOA is very tempting in that it looks like a short cut.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

Thank you, Shimmie.  Thank you having a heart after God.  Thank you for your boldness and not being ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is power to those who believe.  Thank you for giving it all you got here on the forum.  You are blessed and highly favored of the Lord, Shimmie.  God has instructed you and you are being obediant to His Word.  You are blessed coming in and blessed going out and whatsoever you put your hands too, you will prosper in.  I pray this over your life in the Name of Jesus!





			
				Shimmie said:
			
		

> *It is* the whole heart of the matter. We either trust God and ONLY God or we don't. The number one compliment that I receive over and over in my life in this forum and *out of this forum* is that "I am so positive."
> 
> The entire source of it has come from only one person. My faith and love in the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe Him. Period!
> 
> ...


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> That's true... But she was not calling any particular person out... She was just stating her opinion. Even if the majority doesn't agree with her, doesn't she have that right?


 
This is what the problem here on this board is with us as believers.  We are so quick to say..."It's an opinion" and then regard it as "ok" and never recognize that our thoughts are not original thoughts.  We are either being led by God or by the enemy.  I'm not saying this about her, per se, but what I am saying is this....The bible says..."casting down imaginations and every high thing that will exalt itself against the knowledge of God and bring *every thought* to the obediance of Jesus Christ."  Opinions is included in the 'every thought' as well and we as believers must recognize that just because someone has one, doesn't mean that its ok to state it as a fact.


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

gn1g said:
			
		

> Hello Shimmie,
> 
> missed you around here.
> 
> I've been thinking about this thread. Do you remember *the story of moses and the magicians?* Everything that moses could do the magicians could do also but in the end Moses had the victory over the magicians.


 
Gee whiz, do you know I thought about that?  And this brings us back to the scripture in Isaiah 14:12

"In Lucifer's fallen state, he was still known as a light bringer, daystar, and a son of the morning.  These are ALL Counterfeits to the REAL thing....."

Although satan is a master deceiver,  *Jesus is still Lord of All....*


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 26, 2007)

My response is in red... It's a very slippery slope and that's why the Bible is the final authority for me. I ask God to help me interpret and reason each day-- many times a day.




			
				Omoge said:
			
		

> Florence Scovel Shinn
> Florence Shinn here was a skilled artist who lived in New York City during the early twentieth century. She also became known as a skilled METAPHYSICAL teacher and SPIRITUAL LUMINARY. Her lectures were well-attended and her books, including the classic The GAME of LIFE and HOW TO PLAY IT, have been very popular since the 1920s. Florence Scovel Shinn is widely appreciated as one of the greatest American spiritual teachers of the twentieth century.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Omoge (Feb 26, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:
			
		

> *What?  *[/QUOTE
> 
> What are you trying to say?


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> Nice & Wavy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 26, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:
			
		

> This is what the problem here on this board is with us as believers. We are so quick to say..."It's an opinion" and then regard it as "ok" and never recognize that our thoughts are not original thoughts. We are either being led by God or by the enemy. I'm not saying this about her, per se, but what I am saying is this....The bible says..."casting down imaginations and every high thing that will exalt itself against the knowledge of God and bring *every thought* to the obediance of Jesus Christ." Opinions is included in the 'every thought' as well and we as believers must recognize that just because someone has one, doesn't mean that its ok to state it as a fact.


 
No please let me clarify... Opinions are just that, opinions. Everyone has them. Each individual has a choice to agree with it or not.

A coment (for example, like the one DI made) doesn't offend someone unless deep down, they may think there is some truth of it found in them--or if they think that it's a bad thing. 

Sometimes it's okay to be "narrow minded", so I personally wouldn't take it as a insult. Or think that we would need to shut down the thread. We're all adults. She did not single any person out. She just encouraged secretdiamond and moved on.


I realize that every "good" idea that I have comes from God. I believe that God is the Trinity-- Father, Son and Holy Ghost. 

However, I know that we do not war against flesh and blood... The only way that I discern spirits is when individuals deny the full power and glory of Jesus Christ. Or if I know something that is being said (even from a "believer's mouth) is in direct contradiction of God's word (the Bible).

Even so-- everyone has the right to state their opinion. And we each have the right to tune them out or to agree. God has given us free will. We can either choose to follow Him or not.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

kelouis75 said:
			
		

> No please let me clarify... Opinions are just that everyone has them. Each individual has a choice to agree with it or not.
> 
> I realize that every "good" idea that I have comes from God. I believe that God is the Trinity-- Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
> 
> ...


 
Gotcha!


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## Omoge (Feb 26, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:
			
		

> *What?  *




I can pray all I want, but if I don't have faith and if am not constantly taking steps everyday towards developing my faith, I don't think those prayers mean much in regards to changing myself. I can't be praying God give me faith and just stand around doing nothing to activate my faith. Thats what I meant. 
I can't say God please help me to pass that exam, and then all day all I am thinking about is how badly I did on the exam. 
Thats what I meant.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> I can pray all I want, but if I don't have faith and if am not constantly taking steps everyday towards developing my faith, I don't think those prayers mean much in regards to changing myself. I can't be praying God give me faith and just stand around doing nothing to activate my faith. Thats what I meant.
> I can't say God please help me to pass that exam, and then all day all I am thinking about is how badly I did on the exam.
> Thats what I meant.


 
Oh, now that you have explained it this way, now I get it.

Thanks.


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## PaperClip (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm surprising myself that I'm writing this... but I get it now....  I preface my remarks by saying that Jesus is Lord and the Word of God is the final say. I appreciate the place of passion that many of you all speak from...but I sense the need for wisdom, sensitivity and compassion in these posts. Please be mindful, delicate about how we respond to each other and even those who may be tuggling with this matter and are looking but not posting here.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> I'm surprising myself that I'm writing this... but I get it now.... I preface my remarks by saying that Jesus is Lord and the Word of God is the final say. I appreciate the place of passion that many of you all speak from...but I sense the need for wisdom, sensitivity and compassion in these posts. Please be mindful, delicate about how we respond to each other and even those who may be tuggling with this matter and are looking but not posting here.


 
Are you speaking about my posts as well?  I would really like to know.  Thanks.


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

alexstin said:
			
		

> We all want to be able to control our circumstances. More so then ever before I believe the world feels helpless and is tired of the way they've been living. They want to change but don't know how and so they latch on to whatever seems to feel that void.
> 
> We are managers by nature. From the beginning God wanted us to have control. Unfortunately we lost the ability to control our lives and environment when Adam and Eve fell. God made a way for us to regain that control. It's not through attracting things in your life but submitting to Holy Spirit who in turn will lead you into all truth. This will then position you to receive every good and perfect gift that the Father has for you.
> 
> ...


 
This is beautiful *Pastor A.* *Nice and Wavy*, your post is beautiful as well.  * Both of you are ministering.*   The thing is, this is really *not *about the LOA as much as it is truly about in whom we truly believe.  And protecting the direction of this forum.  We cannot allow the enemy to come in and compromise the standard that belongs here...and the standard being the Lord Jesus Christ and His word and no other.  There is no room for compromise.  

Trust me, the LOA isn't all that.  Meaning that satan has another scheme to deceive.   But it's up to us to maintain who God is.  I have no doubt that the two of you can and that you will.   You're both just that kind of hand maiden of the Lord. 

The two of you are in ministry.  And you express the heart of a Shepard with each of your posts.  

I'm the hard one.  I know it.  Pebbles has to 'pull' me up often to keep me in line.  But there's something that cannot be overlooked.  I'm hard for a reason and make no apologies for it.  I will not waiver from the word of God.  I won't.

This same hardness delivered my son from drugs; my mom from alcohol; my dad from dying from several diabetic seizures; my sister's son from being aborted because of a cyst that was dissolved through believing God's word and prayer; because I was too mean to allow the devil to kill my unborn nephew.   Today, he's 21 and healthy and as handsome as can be.  

I have more testimonies.  I'm a fighter and do not apologize for it.  When I see something that I know is of satan, I'm jumping on it...quick!  If someone gets in the way and gets hurt, I'll just come back raise them up later.  But I'm not coming off of the devil's mess and exposing him for what he is until I'm done.  

My fight is not with people, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, and rulers of darkness.....

We have to keep this forum pure.  the same as we would our homes and churches.   Otherwise, there will be no point in having it here.  There is no blend of any other with Jesus.   It's all or nothing. 

I appreciate you, Ladies.... GN 1, CoMike...Togetherness in Christ...and the rest of you...don't let this forum go to hell.   Keep your stand and don't give is second thought for anyone.    It's the devil who's offended, not anyone else.


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## Divine Inspiration (Feb 26, 2007)

secretdiamond said:
			
		

> Thanks for your posts in this thread DI they are of great value to me and are very encouraging.
> 
> @the bolded: You make a very good point here.  I didn't realize how true this is until now.  But I'm still going to be happy and willing to learn all that I can!



You're welcome.


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## Omoge (Feb 26, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> This is beautiful *Pastor A.* *Nice and Wavy*, your post is beautiful as well.  * Both of you are ministering.*   The thing is, this is really *not *about the LOA as much as it is truly about in whom we truly believe.  And protecting the direction of this forum.  We cannot allow the enemy to come in and compromise the standard that belongs here...and the standard being the Lord Jesus Christ and His word and no other.  There is no room for compromise.
> 
> Trust me, the LOA isn't all that.  Meaning that satan has another scheme to deceive.   But it's up to us to maintain who God is.  I have no doubt that the two of you can and that you will.   You're both just that kind of hand maiden of the Lord.
> 
> ...




I don't think your stance is too harsh, I think its neccessary especially for someone coming from a place where things have gone soft. Or coming from a place where I have ben trying to balance openmindedness and strictly adhering to God. 
I know I like to consider myself openminded, but lately I'm realising  that I have to drop some open minded views in my quest to stop straddling the middle and moving towards God. So this hard stance is appreciated.


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## Divine Inspiration (Feb 26, 2007)

Keen said:
			
		

> I agree this was a great thread. Whether we agree or disagree we still need to discuss these issues.



Thank you!!! Just because we don't agree doesn't meant that anybody is being malicious...it simply means that some of us are willing to agree to disagree with being condescending. Why is that a problem?


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## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

gn1g said:
			
		

> Preach shimmie. Say on, say on!
> 
> I needed to hear that. We must worship Him in spirit and truth.
> 
> LOA is very tempting in that it looks like a short cut.


 
I've been 'there' precious heart.  I've been there.  I know the dangers that lie within.   Thank God for Jesus and for saving me from the danger of *myself*... not hell, but from me and my foolishness.  

Hugs to you....Gn1g.


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## live2bgr8 (Feb 26, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> I don't think your stance is too harsh, I think its neccessary especially for someone coming from a place where things have gone soft. Or coming from a place where I have ben trying to balance openmindedness and strictly adhering to God.
> I know I like to consider myself openminded, but lately I'm realising that I have to drop some open minded views in my quest to stop straddling the middle and moving towards God. So this hard stance is appreciated.


 
See, that's the thing... we're all coming from different places/POV/experiences.

I personally, was bound by legalism and judgementalism. But _my relationship_ with God was dry.

Now, however, I can appreciate both sides of this discussion for what they are: a checks and balance system among believers, which will hopefully draw us closer to God and better our walks.


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## pebbles (Feb 26, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> Thank you!!! Just because we don't agree doesn't meant that anybody is being malicious...it simply means that some of us are willing to agree to disagree with being condescending. Why is that a problem?


 
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing. But since the conversation is taking place here between us, be aware of the fact that when you talk about people being close minded or staunch, it can easily be taken to mean that you're talking about the members on this thread. You might want to stress that you're not talking about people here.


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## PaperClip (Feb 26, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:
			
		

> Are you speaking about my posts as well? I would really like to know. Thanks.


 
The overall thread tone...not anybody's posts in particular because if that had been the case, I would have responded directly to the applicable post in order to utilize that post as a real-time example of my point.

And I'm not saying that the thread overall is harshly toned at all. Sometimes the truth has to come forth as it is... straight, no chaser... I'm saying that it feels like it's on a delicate place so that one thing could turn it in an unproductive direction....

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive because as I have stated before, I am relatively speaking, hanging in a spiritual balance here and I did explore some aspects of this topic (meaning The Secret/LOA) but the Holy Spirit prevented me from getting too deep into it.... He knows me so well.... I have a strong inquisitive spirit/personality.... I still have questions.... I am looking for answers.... and I've been "in the Lord", as they say, for a little bit now (even though sometimes my posts don't always reflect that ).

I'm on my way back to my place in the Lord! Back to restoration, rejuvination, and intimacy with the Lord.... He's all I need to attract and draw from....


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## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:
			
		

> Thank you, Shimmie. Thank you having a heart after God. Thank you for your boldness and not being ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is power to those who believe. Thank you for giving it all you got here on the forum. You are blessed and highly favored of the Lord, Shimmie. God has instructed you and you are being obediant to His Word. You are blessed coming in and blessed going out and whatsoever you put your hands too, you will prosper in. I pray this over your life in the Name of Jesus!


 
Thank you, Nice and Wavy.  I receive your prayer.   I pray the same for you 1000-fold (Yes 1000).  

Love and blessings to you.


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## pebbles (Feb 26, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> I don't think your stance is too harsh, I think its neccessary especially for someone coming from a place where things have gone soft. Or coming from a place where I have ben trying to balance openmindedness and strictly adhering to God.
> *I know I like to consider myself openminded, but lately I'm realising that I have to drop some open minded views in my quest to stop straddling the middle and moving towards God. So this hard stance is appreciated.*


 
Good for you! God bless you for taking this position. It's sometimes hard not to fit into the views most people want us to take, but let the world be angry and God be pleased. Only He can bless you.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

Thank you, Shimmie.  I appreciate you and your response.

When I think about the time of my ordination, I remember being so filled with the love of God.  I remember feeling so humble and just not worthy of the calling He had given to me.  Even now, I still humble myself because its not about me...but the One who is able to save my soul and raise me up to be with Him for eternity.  I will lay my body down one day, and when I do, I want to be able to meet the Lord and hear him say...."Well, done thou good and faithful servant, you have been faithful over many things...enter in the joy of the Lord."

For the last 18 years of knowing who He is, I too have seen many lives changed, including my own.  When I first came to Christ, I was a broken women with no hope.  I had alot of *'material things',* but no hope.  I was living with my son's father, and life was the pits.  I decided to take my own life and to take my son's life as well.  The day that I made the decision to do this to myself and my son, there was some people who were out on the street evangelizing.  Someone was giving their testimony of how he came to God and how at one time, he was going to commit suicide.  Something in his voice stopped me in my tracks and I listened.  I gave myself to Jesus Christ right there on the spot when he gave an altar call.  My life has not been the same since.

I pray for many, many people.  I have seen many people get saved and set free over the years and I'm still in awe of what God does on a daily basis.

Ministering is what I do...it's apart of who I am and I have chosen to surrender my life to do God's will.  I'm not perfect, but I am striving to live a Godly and holy life before the Lord.

If for any reason, I am not doing what God has called me to do, I pray that the Lord will tell me (which He does) and that my heart will respond to Him with submissiveness.  I don't ever want to be without Him by my side...ever.

I love sharing with the saints of God and getting responses in kind.  If for any reason there can be no more sharing in a loving and caring way, I will come out of this forum and not look back.  My goal is to always be what God wants me to be and never to be outside of His Will for my life.

When I first came to LHCF, what intrigued me the most was that there was a place where Christians gathered to share....I loved that, and it inspired me to want to learn more from others and to give more of myself.  
Being in ministry can be a lonely place sometimes....you can't share with everyone because not everyone will understand where you are at.  And that's ok...I've come to welcome those few whom God has put in my life and I thank God everyday for those people.  

Shimmie, you are one of those people.  You have something that not every person have and that is *tenacity*.  This doesn't come easily to everyone and the Father has chosen you to have it.  Don't ever feel guilty about it either (which I know you won't) because of Romans 8:1-2.

(I'm sending you a pm)

Blessings to you.



			
				Shimmie said:
			
		

> This is beautiful *Pastor A.* *Nice and Wavy*, your post is beautiful as well. *Both of you are ministering.* The thing is, this is really *not *about the LOA as much as it is truly about in whom we truly believe. And protecting the direction of this forum. We cannot allow the enemy to come in and compromise the standard that belongs here...and the standard being the Lord Jesus Christ and His word and no other. There is no room for compromise.
> 
> Trust me, the LOA isn't all that. Meaning that satan has another scheme to deceive. But it's up to us to maintain who God is. I have no doubt that the two of you can and that you will. You're both just that kind of hand maiden of the Lord.
> 
> ...


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

Ok, thanks.



			
				RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> The overall thread tone...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

*Point understood.  Thanks.*



			
				RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> > The overall thread tone...not anybody's posts in particular because if that had been the case, I would have responded directly to the applicable post in order to utilize that post as a real-time example of my point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Divine Inspiration (Feb 26, 2007)

alexstin said:
			
		

> This was so unnecessary, DI. Why not agree to disagree without the veiled insults? We are all created in the image of God and as such should be given the respect to disagree without the name calling.



Veiled insults?!?! Name calling?! Where? How? Correct me if I'm wrong, but SecretDiamond mentioned that her curiosities and interests in this involved people IN REAL LIFE. This issue does not begin and end with this board, therfore there are people OFF OF THIS BOARD who clearly have had an influence on her opinions up until this point. Furthermore, I'm an ADULT, and if I need to do any "name calling" I'll do so. I don't veil insults because I'm not a passive aggressive personality type. I said what I need to say, and I'm done with it. I dare you to find a post on this board out of my 3000+ where I'm being ugly to someone on this board. You won't find it because that's not who I am. I was making reference to ANYBODY who may be intolerant towards SD...if you think that's somebody here, that's not my problem. I'm amazed that people take generalizations so personally. 



			
				Shimmie said:
			
		

> DI, if you are speaking of me, I can't and will not compromise the truth of God.
> 
> I must proclaim God for who He is at any cost.   The devil cannot beat me.   he's already a defeated foe.   I rather see someone get their feelings hurt now than see them go to hell.
> 
> ...



Please show me where I said YOU were staunch. Pretty please? I do not remember saying your name, and you therefore are not justified in assuming that that post was about you. Um, hello, if you don't fit the description, why even concern yourself with it? SD will be taking the things she learned on and off of this board with her, and she probably will run into CLOSE-MINDED, STAUNCH folks at some time...we all know they're out there. And frankly, they'll argue her down that their way is right and hers is wrong or misinformed...and that's fine. There are people who are clearly not of God who would argue the same thing so all I'm telling her is to BE ENCOURAGED...regardless of what people from either side say because like YOU said, the Holy Spirit needs to be our guide, not man.

Ok, so I'm trying to figure out where I said that you or anyone else here should be "comprimising" the word of God? I have YET to suggest that anything you or anyone else said was invalid...as a matter of fact, I AGREED with you. See the quote below.



			
				Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> Shimmie, I completely agree with what you're saying...that's why I chose not to read LOA books and went with TPOPT instead because there was Biblical support for every assertion made, and the book was about enhancing the Christian walk...not simply getting a new house or more money. I just think there's merit in the principle of positive thinking & faith being important in our personal development as Christians.



And that paragraph pretty much sums up my other posts as well so HOW did you or anyone else draw the conclusion that I was speaking of you? If I'm agreeing with you, how then am I turning around and saying you're staunch? I think your delivery may have been misconstrued in this thread, but I don't see anything wrong with the message. I've been able to separate the two.



			
				pebbles said:
			
		

> Agreed. I'd hate to have to close the thread.



 What have I said/done to warrant this thread being closed? Wow. Ok, well, I'll gracefully bow out of this discussion because I did *not* call anyone a name and for people to suggest that I did is...I don't even know. I'll let you guys have it.



			
				Nice&Wavy said:
			
		

> I agree too, pebbles. When christians have to succumb to name calling, then something certainly is wrong. I pray that those who feel like this is the answer, will humble themselves and see that we should be able to come together, whether we agree or not, and have a conversation about the TRUTH. It's all about Jesus...nothing more.



And I'm still trying to find the name-calling in my post...And I'm also trying to figure out how I'M not humble for referring to religiously introlerant people as closed-minded and staunch but other people in this thread can call the creators of LOA Satan and "evil"...do the same rules not apply? If we're supposed to be coming together, whether we agree or not, then why are some folks so vehement about their way being correct? That logic, if accurate, should be applied to EVERYTHING...not just when we feel someone disagrees with us.



			
				kelouis75 said:
			
		

> That's true... But she was not calling any particular person out... She was just stating her opinion. Even if the majority doesn't agree with her, doesn't she have that right?



Precisely. What people refuse to acknowledge is that Christians will NOT always agree, and that doesn't make anybody right or wrong. NOBODY HAS ALL THE ANSWERS...not one. We're HUMAN, and we as Christians are all doing the best we can with our finite knowledge and capabilities. I *know* that many of us think we have it all figured out, but seriously, nobody is more "right" than anybody else at the end of the day. It all boils down to our faith in whatever we choose to put it in...for me, that's God...for the next person, that may be Mother Earth. Am I condoning worshipping the Earth? No. Am I going to be intolerant & arrogant? No. God didn't call me to do that. My WALK will be my example...it's happened time and time again. I don't have to Bible thump and scream things from the roof top...people can observe my SPIRIT and say, "Hmmm...there's something different there." HOWEVER, if the next person choose to tell people they're going to hell in a handbasket, FINE...but they have no right to suggest that because I'm not doing things their way, I'm wrong.



			
				kelouis75 said:
			
		

> No please let me clarify... Opinions are just that, opinions. Everyone has them. Each individual has a choice to agree with it or not.
> 
> A coment (for example, like the one DI made) doesn't offend someone unless deep down, they may think there is some truth of it found in them--or if they think that it's a bad thing.
> 
> ...



THANK YOU!!! Very well said.


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## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

Omoge said:
			
		

> I don't think your stance is too harsh, I think its neccessary especially for someone coming from a place where things have gone soft. Or coming from a place where I have ben trying to balance openmindedness and strictly adhering to God.
> I know I like to consider myself openminded, but lately I'm realising that I have to drop some open minded views in my quest to stop straddling the middle and moving towards God. So this hard stance is appreciated.


 
Believe or not, I understand and admire you greatly.  I have to be hard.  It comes with the territory.   When ever you have a chance, read the story about Nehemiah and how he refused to come off the wall that God has commanded him to rebuild.    He was threatened, taunted, ridiculed, you name it.   But he refused to come down off the wall.  

Remember how Noah was taunted as well?  Yet he continued to obey God and built the ark.  As hard as it may seem, we cannot afford to compromise or allow our faith in God to be watered down.  We can't.  Otherwise we lose our power.  

Look at this and you will love it.   It keeps me. 

"The same power that raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you."  

Romans 8:11:    

But if the Spirit of him that *raised* up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that *raised* up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 

We have the Holy Spirit within us.  The same Holy Spirit that dwells in Jesus and raised Him from the dead.   How much more do we ever need?  You have it precious lady.  You have it.  God loves you just that much and more to dwell in you and along with no other god.  

The positive thought here is simply that.  God loves you too much to leave you.  He's right there and has been all along.  

The devil is a liar.  That's why he keeps trying to bring in deceptions and distractions to blind us from the true love that dwells within us.  All that we will ever need is in us and always will be.  We just have to receive it and believe it.   That's all.  Receive and Believe.   

What a love...what a love....Jesus and no other.  

God bless you, dear one.


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 26, 2007)

Oh, boy.....I'm not even going to go through this.

Blessings to all...and to all a goodnight!





Quote:

_A woman's heart should be so hidden in Christ, that a man should have to
seek Him first to find her.

_-author unknown


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## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:
			
		

> Thank you, Shimmie. I appreciate you and your response.
> 
> When I think about the time of my ordination, I remember being so filled with the love of God. I remember feeling so humble and just not worthy of the calling He had given to me. Even now, I still humble myself because its not about me...but the One who is able to save my soul and raise me up to be with Him for eternity. I will lay my body down one day, and when I do, I want to be able to meet the Lord and hear him say...."Well, done thou good and faithful servant, you have been faithful over many things...enter in the joy of the Lord."
> 
> ...


 
Praise God... Now I'm humbled.  I'll look for your PM.


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## Divine Inspiration (Feb 26, 2007)

pebbles said:
			
		

> There's nothing wrong with disagreeing. But since the conversation is taking place here between us, be aware of the fact that when you talk about people being close minded or staunch, it can easily be taken to mean that you're talking about the members on this thread. You might want to stress that you're not talking about people here.



Ok, well, it's safe for me to ASSUME then that these ladies are calling us "devils" or "evil" since we believe in the power of positive thinking? It could easily be taken that they're referring to me, but no one said my name so I'm not going to ASSUME that this group of loving, Christian women would say something ill-willed towards me. I've never knowingly wronged anyone on this board, and I'm seriously taken aback by this. 

SD, thank you for starting this thread. I've enjoyed the discussion.

To anyone I may have offended, please understand that it was not intentional, and if you read my post objectively, I think you'll see that. Either way, I appreciate everyone's input in this thread as it was all enlightening, and I believe the OP got what she was after.


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

pebbles said:
			
		

> There's nothing wrong with disagreeing. But since the conversation is taking place here between us, be aware of the fact that when you talk about people being close minded or staunch, it can easily be taken to mean that you're talking about the members on this thread. You might want to stress that you're not talking about people here.


 I apologize for misunderstanding.  I really do.   I'm well known to controvesy and I thought I was the blame for the change in the thread.

Again I apologize to DI and everyone else.


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> Ok, well, it's safe for me to ASSUME then that these ladies are calling us "devils" or "evil" since we believe in the power of positive thinking? It could easily be taken that they're referring to me, but no one said my name so I'm not going to ASSUME that this group of loving, Christian women would say something ill-willed towards me. I've never knowingly wronged anyone on this board, and I'm seriously taken aback by this.
> 
> SD, thank you for starting this thread. I've enjoyed the discussion.
> 
> To anyone I may have offended, please understand that it was not intentional, and if you read my post objectively, I think you'll see that. Either way, I appreciate everyone's input in this thread as it was all enlightening, and I believe the OP got what she was after.


 
I apologize DI.   I surely don't want to lose my Perrier friend.   Actually, I can use a good size drink right now of my Holy Water.

Truly, I do apologize.  I was gathering from other responses to my posts from the OP and another member and thought your response  was about something that I said which indeed did upset them.  

Let's face it.  The trouble didn't start until I posted.  It drew in a whole lot of replies.   But then, that's how I do....  

Peace and Blessings....  I mean it sincerely.


----------



## pebbles (Feb 26, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> Ok, well, it's safe for me to ASSUME then that these ladies are calling us "devils" or "evil" since we believe in the power of positive thinking? It could easily be taken that they're referring to me, but no one said my name so I'm not going to ASSUME that this group of loving, Christian women would say something ill-willed towards me. I've never knowingly wronged anyone on this board, and I'm seriously taken aback by this.
> 
> SD, thank you for starting this thread. I've enjoyed the discussion.
> 
> *To anyone I may have offended, please understand that it was not intentional, and if you read my post objectively, I think you'll see that.* Either way, I appreciate everyone's input in this thread as it was all enlightening, and I believe the OP got what she was after.


 
That's all you had to say. And I never said that your earlier comment was cause for me to close this thread. I said I would hate to have to close the thread, in other words, if it turns into an occasion for name calling, I'm shutting it down. Clearly, this is all a simple misunderstanding, and I don't think it merits for anyone to be so upset about it.


----------



## gn1g (Feb 26, 2007)

OT:  Christians have you all noticed that a lot of witchcraft has crept into the forum lately?  And not just LOA.


----------



## StrawberryQueen (Feb 26, 2007)

gn1g said:
			
		

> OT:  Christians have you all noticed that a lot of witchcraft has crept into the forum lately?  And not just LOA.


No I have not, what are you talking about?


----------



## Shimmie (Feb 26, 2007)

gn1g said:
			
		

> OT: Christians have you all noticed that a lot of witchcraft has crept into the forum lately? And not just LOA.


 
Girllllll.........

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. You weren't supposed to tell it.  Just pray about it.... 

But you're right it has.   But angel, it's *always* been here.  It's very easy to spot.  Even when it's 'quiet.'   As Christians, you will be surrounded by witches and witchcraft.  It comes with the territory.  

I've been around witches all my life.   So .... I know.


----------



## firecracker (Feb 26, 2007)

Hey ya'll.  I'm not into the Secret or LOA but its really interesting hearing the thoughts and information coming from everyone here who believe, practice, agree, slightly agree or disagree with LOA.  
I think positive thinking is a must no matter what.  

Once someone voices their opinion on what is real or isn't real based on their faith or belief system thats great but there shouldn't be a need to attempt to force feed anyone.  Agree to disagree.  Whats up with feeling the need to be right  If you do or don't believe in something why argue especially if your walking in God's light?  
Everyone has the right to believe in what and whom they want.


----------



## alexstin (Feb 26, 2007)

Divine Inspiration said:
			
		

> Ok, well, it's safe for me to ASSUME then that these ladies are calling us "devils" or "evil" since we believe in the power of positive thinking? It could easily be taken that they're referring to me, but no one said my name so I'm not going to ASSUME that this group of loving, Christian women would say something ill-willed towards me. I've never knowingly wronged anyone on this board, and I'm seriously taken aback by this.
> 
> SD, thank you for starting this thread. I've enjoyed the discussion.
> 
> To anyone I may have offended, please understand that it was not intentional, and if you read my post objectively, I think you'll see that. Either way, I appreciate everyone's input in this thread as it was all enlightening, and I believe the OP got what she was after.



I apologize for my misunderstanding your words, DI. It is very hard over the internet to see where someone is coming from sometimes.


----------



## PaperClip (Feb 26, 2007)

firecracker said:
			
		

> Hey ya'll. I'm not into the Secret or LOA but its really interesting hearing the thoughts and information coming from everyone here who believe, practice, agree, slightly agree or disagree with LOA.
> I think positive thinking is a must no matter what.
> 
> Once someone voices their opinion on what is real or isn't real based on their faith or belief system thats great but there shouldn't be a need to attempt to force feed anyone. Agree to disagree. Whats up with feeling the need to be right If you do or don't believe in something why argue especially if your walking in God's light?
> Everyone has the right to believe in what and whom they want.


 
Hey, Firecracker.... I'd like to respond to your question:

One of my favorite scriptures is Amos 3:3: "How can two walk together except they be agreed". At some point, there has to be a definitive meeting of the minds on the major things. This particular forum is the Christian Fellowship Forum and so while Christianity has a variety of ways that it is expressed/practiced, there are some fundamentals, very basic fundamentals, that must be in place (I humbly believe and advocate) in order for a person to call him/herself Christian. 

One more thing: I don't think we should be so quick to call a disagreement an argument that automatically ends with two people disagreeing and that's it. I know for me, I appreciate processing time to think... so a "rigorous conversation" is good when it is done in a healthy and respectful way. 

My humble thoughts....


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## firecracker (Feb 26, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:
			
		

> Hey, Firecracker.... I'd like to respond to your question:
> 
> One of my favorite scriptures is Amos 3:3: "How can two walk together except they be agreed". At some point, there has to be a definitive meeting of the minds on the major things. This particular forum is the Christian Fellowship Forum and so while Christianity has a variety of ways that it is expressed/practiced, there are some fundamentals, very basic fundamentals, that must be in place (I humbly believe and advocate) in order for a person to call him/herself Christian.
> 
> ...


 I agree with the bolded.  
I won't touch that comment about the title or calling oneself a Chrisitian since I don't have the key to heaven or anyone elses key.


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## PaperClip (Feb 26, 2007)

firecracker said:
			
		

> I agree with the bolded.
> I won't touch that comment about the title or calling oneself a Chrisitian since I don't have the key to heaven or anyone elses key.


 
But let's explore that. I didn't say anything about getting into heaven. I'm talking about what's going on right here on PLANET EARTH! 

This is a criteria of debate amongst religious organizations. Everybody (even within Christianity/organized religion) says that their way is THE way. So who or what is right? Again, we gotta go back to the basics of what THE BIBLE says.... 

I'm not saying (necessarily ) that what I believe is the way is the RIGHT way, but it's the way that I understand at this moment in my life. And I gotta stand up for something or I could fall for anything... which wraps us back around to the core of this thread topic, and what some of these dear sisters are boldly saying: sometimes we gotta take the Word of God EXACTLY how it's laid out. Straight, no chaser. It is what it is.... Jesus is Lord of all and He will have no other gods before Him, even if some would say that the creation (humans) is equal to the Creator (Lord Jesus Christ).
That can and will never be....


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## Omoge (Feb 26, 2007)

Shimmie said:
			
		

> Believe or not, I understand and admire you greatly.  I have to be hard.  It comes with the territory.   When ever you have a chance, read the story about Nehemiah and how he refused to come off the wall that God has commanded him to rebuild.    He was threatened, taunted, ridiculed, you name it.   But he refused to come down off the wall.
> 
> Remember how Noah was taunted as well?  Yet he continued to obey God and built the ark.  As hard as it may seem, we cannot afford to compromise or allow our faith in God to be watered down.  We can't.  Otherwise we lose our power.
> 
> ...




I had no idea I could get so much inspiration from a hair forum, I usually come here a few times a year when I'm having a bad hair day, get some hair tips and bounce. However, I've been enjoying this forum alot more lately and learning about important issues beyond hair. 

I appreciate your words and your testimonies, they are a sign for me to check myself. And all this discussion has truly inspired someone on this board today, even the tense words/misunderstandings somehow served a purpose. 
I appreciate the discussions for tackling something that most of us have become numb to or choose to ignore. 

I believe this is all extremely relevant. While I don't subscribe to LOA, I have to say all the chatter about is making me examine my spiritual life critically.  I guess that's the only purpose it will serve in my life.


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## longnapps (Feb 27, 2007)

gn1g said:
			
		

> OT: Christians have you all noticed that a lot of witchcraft has crept into the forum lately? And not just LOA.


 
yes I have, as a matter of fact I became curious and starting researching wicca and what I saw did not sit well with me however I think God is using that experience for good because learning about wicca just made me run closer to God and now I am more crazy about him than ever. 

I wanted to say that I enjoy reading your posts shimmie and I'm glad you're back


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## Shimmie (Feb 27, 2007)

longnapps said:
			
		

> yes I have, as a matter of fact I became curious and starting researching wicca and what I saw did not sit well with me however I think God is using that experience for good because learning about wicca just made me run closer to God and now I am more crazy about him than ever.
> 
> I wanted to say that I enjoy reading your posts shimmie and I'm glad you're back


 
Thank you Longnapps.  You are very precious to say such.  Of course I had to come back and start trouble for the devil.    However, I'm about to make a post regarding witchcraft.  It's time to put our minds at ease about it.  

Love and hugs to you...


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