# Reprobate Mind Romans 1:28



## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;



So, is this a permanent condition? I feel like so many Christians are suffereing from this condition and just don't know it.    All the while misrepresenting the body of Christ with sinful lives. 

Let's discuss


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

http://www.christianlife.com/video/repairing-the-reprobate-mind


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

Scripture search results:

Jeremiah 6:30
Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.

Strongs Concordance # 3988 and definition--to reject, despise, refuse 


2 Timothy 3:8
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Strongs Concordance #96 and definition--not standing the test, not approved 
properly used of metals and coins
that which does not prove itself such as it ought 
unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Strongs 96

from Romans 1:28 reprobate is used

Strongs 96


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves . Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates ? 

Hebrews 6:8
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. 


Jeremiah 2:37
Hear , O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


Proverbs 4:23
Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. 


Job 17:11
My days are past , my purposes are broken off , even the thoughts of my heart.(*I find it interesting that the heart is refered to as thinking, rather than feeling*

1 Chronicles 28:9
And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

1 Chronicles 29:17
I know also, my God, that thou triest the heart, and hast pleasure in uprightness. As for me, in the uprightness of mine heart I have willingly offered all these things: and now have I seen with joy thy people, which are present here, to offer willingly unto thee.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


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## Sharpened (Jul 5, 2010)

Sorry, that video annoyed me. I hate "carrot-dangling" to get one to buy something unneeded.



> *1 Corinthians 9:27* But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
> 
> *2 Corinthians 13:5-7* Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates? But I trust that you shall know that we are not reprobates. Now I pray to God that you do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that you should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
> 
> ...



A reprobate mind is a mindset in which one knows the truth but rejects it in action. This involves more than the sexual sins pastors tend to focus on.


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> 2 Corinthians 13:5
> Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves . Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates ?
> 
> Hebrews 6:8
> ...


 

Yes, I read somewhere in Tiimothy about having your "conscience seared" with a hot iron and being hypocrites.


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

Nymphe said:


> Sorry, that video annoyed me. I hate "carrot-dangling" to get one to buy something unneeded.
> 
> 
> 
> *A reprobate mind is a mindset in which one knows the truth but rejects it in action*. This involves more than the sexual sins pastors tend to focus on.


 
Oh you just reminded me of another scripture, 2 Timothy 3:5 
talks about those "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."


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## luthiengirlie (Jul 5, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I am studying this and I AM STILL  NOT getting it
something in my brain or heart ain't clicking and I just asked YHWH to remove anything  the fog in my brain... I don't know maybe I have to keep at this until something clicks
I want to be a person WHO LIVES what she speaks reasearches  and prays
not just speak about it
because anyone can write pretty words
i admit i struggle in this area in some ways...
i guess I will keep hacking at it.

I wrote a new blog.. i invite you to join and comment it has partially to do with this tread.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

sidney said:


> Yes, I read somewhere in Tiimothy about having your "conscience seared" with a hot iron and being hypocrites.


 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;



studies on seared conscience
http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/1811/Conscience-Seared.htm

a bit too much to repost but here is a bit



> *Ezekiel 18:24-28*  (Go to this verse :: Verse pop-up)
> There is an individual responsibility. God never condones sin nor grants license for anyone to disobey His commands. This is not speaking about our transgressions done out of weakness or ignorance. These are transgressions that are done as a way of life with knowledge that one is doing wrong. However, God always allows the sinner to repent. He will always chase after the sinner with His Word, giving him the opportunity to turn around. We see that in the lives of the kings Joash, Amaziah, and Uzziah. God always leaves the door open for a sinner who desires to repent. If he does not repent, his mind eventually becomes set, seared, and over time, repentance becomes impossible.​
> 
> Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm...g/ID/1811/Conscience-Seared.htm#ixzz0sq44X1me
> ​


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> I am studying this and I AM STILL NOT getting it
> something in my brain or heart ain't clicking and I just asked YHWH to remove anything the fog in my brain... I don't know maybe I have to keep at this until something clicks
> I want to be a person WHO LIVES what she speaks reasearches and prays
> not just speak about it
> ...


 
Hmmmnn....I'm not sure this applies to you, this is just conjecture but i think a reprobate mind is one that never feels guilty sin.  They have convinced themselves that it's okay.  Let me look it up.


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## luthiengirlie (Jul 5, 2010)

Ezekiel 18:24-28 (Go to this verse :: Verse pop-up)
There is an individual responsibility. God never condones sin nor grants license for anyone to disobey His commands. This is not speaking about our transgressions done out of weakness or ignorance. These are transgressions that are done as a way of life with knowledge that one is doing wrong. However, God always allows the sinner to repent. He will always chase after the sinner with His Word, giving him the opportunity to turn around. We see that in the lives of the kings Joash, Amaziah, and Uzziah. God always leaves the door open for a sinner who desires to repent. If he does not repent, his mind eventually becomes set, seared, and over time, repentance becomes impossible.



*This is beginning to make a  little more sense... so reprobate can mean someone who is CONSTANTLY running around and sinning but saying  LAWRT LAWRT I IS OOOOOOO SOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOLLLLY  (but  behind closed doors i'm embezzling, i'm fornicating(sexually) i'm worshipping other idols, I'm lying, i'm plotting murder in my heart. but in public imma be like LAWRT LAWRT THOU ART WORTHY AND IMMA SPEAK GOOD THAAAAAAAAANGGGS ova people!  HALLELUYURT! (am i getting it? i know i'm being quite over dramatic but this is what i am evisioning am i wayyy of track or am i getting it?) and  it happens so often YHWH goes oh well you made your choice moving on! *


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

^^luthiengirlie, that's what I take it to be also.  A person who knows better, but refuses to do better, according to the Truth that is God's Word.


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## Sharpened (Jul 5, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> I am studying this and I AM STILL  NOT getting it
> something in my brain or heart ain't clicking and I just asked YHWH to remove anything  the fog in my brain... I don't know maybe I have to keep at this until something clicks
> I want to be a person WHO LIVES what she speaks reasearches  and prays
> not just speak about it
> ...


Here are some examples:

Someone who tends to speak about a certain sin a bit too much is discovered to be actually involved in that sin. 

A person tithes to their wealthy church without fail until financial strife befalls, but cannot receive any help from said church. What is the point of that church's existence, then?

A person continues in a sin as His Spirit tries to help her overcome it. At some point, God will step aside and leave her to it.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

*QUESTION*

So if  person has been given to a reprobate mind and they are not even concerned with it, and thus living how they want with ZERO concern for God's Word. . . .are they still a Christian?


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

Okay, I don't know for sure what a reprobabte mind is but let's just look at some scriptures that talk about it.  Here is the main one I know of, and I found some supporting scrpitures.  

Romans 1:18

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that *they are without excuse*: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but because vain in their imaginations,* and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools*, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things. 

*Wherefore God also gave them up to unclenness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature, (Satan) more than the Creator, (God*) who is blessed for ever. A-men. *For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections*: *for even their women did change the natural use into that is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another;* *men with men *working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, *God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient*; *Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debaie, deceit, malignity; whispers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understnding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful*: Who knowing the judgment such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. 

I know there are more examples in the end but the two the church likes to harp on and everyone understands is fornication and homosexuality.  There are some homosexuals and fornicators who wholeheartedly believe that they are alright but truly they are in the hands of an angry God.  God has given them over to a reprobabte mind.  If you still feel guilty over sin, I don't think your mind is reprobate.


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> *QUESTION*
> 
> So if person has been given to a reprobate mind and they are not even concerned with it, and thus living how they want with ZERO concern for God's Word. . . .are they still a Christian?


 
I can't answer that question but if I were in that situation I would be extremely CONCERNED.  The bible says examine yourselves, to see if you are of the faith.  All I know is that the bible says some people who have cast out demons, God will tell them on judgement day "I never knew you..."  sounds like church folks to me.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

^^Sidney, I posted the Strongs definitions of reprobate up above.  and It seems that lack of guilt and conviction is a precurser to being turned over to a reprobate mind

I also think that genuine guilt/conviction are it.  So many people can demonstrate conviction without actually feeling it in their hearts.  Conviction makes you stop.


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

That first long  scripture was Romans 1 :18, I should have posted in in message or NIV because that king james one is kind of hard to read.  Anyway, here is more supporting scriptures with the phrase "reprobate" to help us define it.  


II Corinthians 13:5 -7 Examine yourselves whether ye be in faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be *reprobates*? But I trust that ye shall know that we are not *reprobates*. Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as *reprobates*.

II Timothy 3:8 Now as Jan-nes and Jam-bres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth; men of corrupt minds, *reprobate* concerning the faith. 

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work *reprobate*.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

sidney said:


> I can't answer that question but if I were in that situation I would be extremely CONCERNED. The bible says examine yourselves, to see if you are of the faith. All I know is that the bible says some people who have cast out demons, God will tell them "I never knew you..." sounds like church folks to me.


 
You ain't neva lied!
The Word of the Lord did say. . . .

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


uhmmm hmmm


I think when we all make it to the other side of eternity we may be surprised at both who is with us and who ISN'T


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> ^^Sidney, I posted the Strongs definitions of reprobate up above. and It seems that lack of guilt and conviction is a precurser to being turned over to a reprobate mind
> 
> I also think that genuine guilt/conviction are it. So many people can demonstrate conviction without actually feeling it in their hearts. Conviction makes you stop.


 
Oh okay, I was trying to figure out what "strongs" LOL


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

sidney said:


> II Corinthians 13:5 -7 *Examine* yourselves whether ye be in faith; *prove* your own selves. *Know* ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? But I *trust* that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. Now I *pray* to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.


 

From this scripture what is standing out to me is

Examine yourself
Prove yourself
Know thyself
Trust God
Pray to God

These are all action verbs.  Coming to this knowledge about yourself isn't automatic and wont necessarily fall down on you like a revelation from God.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

sidney said:


> Oh okay, I was trying to figure out what "strongs" LOL


 

alright now.  I fixed it becaue Lord knows, I don't wanna confuse anybody.


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> You ain't neva lied!
> The Word of the Lord did say. . . .
> 
> Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
> ...


 
It's very easy to try to re-write the word.  I'm glad you brought it up.  I know its unpopular to talk about sin even among some christians but I would rather know it and not be surpised on judgement day.  I think it's also important for other not to let people think what they do is okay....you're doing them more harm than good and I wouldn't want to be accountable for what may happen to them.  I'm not saying bible thump but just don't give people security in their sin.





HERE IT IS IN PRINT for those who honestly haven't seen in print what God's word says:

*“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)*

NOTICE The past tense of the word WERE, he did not say, and such ARE some of you.

*If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” (Leviticus 20:13)
*


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

so reprobate is used to described silver that is rejected for impurities . . .How is silver purified?  FIRE!

Psalm 66:10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried.

Gold is too

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


and the Word of the Lord IS pure

Psalm 12:6
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.


Psalm 119:9-11
Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. 

With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments. 

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

sidney said:


> It's very easy to try to re-write the word. I'm glad you brought it up. I know its unpopular to talk about sin even among some christians but I would rather know it and not be surpised on judgement day. I think it's also important for other not to let people think what they do is okay....you're doing them more harm than good and I wouldn't want to be accountable for what may happen to them. I'm not saying bible thump but just don't give people security in their sin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I think reading what TENSE the Word of God is speaking in is very important  and often is overlooked.  Some things are present tense, and some things are past tense.  Some things are future tense.  But when we don't understand that, we can miss the message.


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## luthiengirlie (Jul 5, 2010)

I love YHWH! He's a fog clearer


He is so merciful. When I go to Him upset that I cannot understand something that His Word states. Like a father who loves his child is paitent and explains until the child gets an understanding. 

It moves the heart of the Most High when we are desperate and seek Him desperately to clarify and understand His scriptures. 

I have a hard time understanding things sometimes in His Word and on occasion I've gone to Him crying saying Adonai I don't understand this. And He wipes my tears and helps me understand!

Isn't He AWESOME!!!


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## Sharpened (Jul 5, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> *QUESTION*
> 
> So if  person has been given to a reprobate mind and they are not even concerned with it, and thus living how they want with ZERO concern for God's Word. . . .are they still a Christian?


Given how that label has been trivialized, maybe we should figure out what to do if the person does not turn away from the sin. Paul and company favored turning the person out of the assembly and not keep company with him or her (1 Corinthians 5).


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

Nymphe said:


> Given how that label has been trivialized, maybe we should figure out what to do if the person does not turn away from the sin. Paul and company favored turning the person out of the assembly and not keep company with him or her (1 Corinthians 5).


 


ooooo, good call  that could be a whole thread right there. . .the definition of Christian.  hmmmmmm  and I have witnessed the booting of a person sinning against the body.  it wasn't pretty BUT God was there in the midst.


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

Nymphe said:


> Given how that label has been trivialized, maybe we should figure out what to do if the person does not turn away from the sin. Paul and company favored turning the person out of the assembly and not keep company with him or her (1 Corinthians 5).


 
Turning the person out of the assembly should encourage them to stop the behavior, but that isn't done.  Infact, some christians enjoy hearing about other people's sin even when they won't do it.  Or they will laugh about it and not correct the person.


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## sidney (Jul 5, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> ooooo, good call that could be a whole thread right there. . .the definition of Christian. hmmmmmm and I have witnessed the booting of a person sinning against the body. it wasn't pretty BUT God was there in the midst.


 
Okay here is where I get convicted.....

*I Cor. 5:11 "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an* one no not to eat." 

Notice that is says, "if a brother..."


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## OhmyKimB (Jul 5, 2010)

I'm posting NIV...it did take me a while to get this because I didn't even know what reprobate was:

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 
 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 

 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 

 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 

 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Romans 1


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## Crown (Jul 5, 2010)

> Given how that label has been trivialized, maybe we should figure out what to do if the person does not turn away from the sin. Paul and company favored turning the person out of the assembly and not keep company with him or her (1 Corinthians 5).


But if he/she repented, 1Cor. 5 goes with 2Cor. 2 :

5If anyone has caused  grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you, to  some extent—not to put it too severely. 6*The punishment inflicted on him by the majority  is sufficient for him.7Now  instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be  overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8I  urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him.*  9The reason I wrote you was to  see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10If you forgive anyone, I also  forgive him. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to  forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, 11in order that Satan might not  outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

Sometimes, it is not easy to conclude : he/she is _definitely _a reprobate mind!
As Sidney said : 



> Turning the person out of the assembly should encourage them to stop the  behavior...


And as example for the spiritual safety of the other members in the assembly. In a local assembly, it is  about discernment, discipline AND love.
 
But in general, we do remember this :

Mat. 13.24 Another  parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened  unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:    13.25 But while men slept, his enemy came and  sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.    13.26 But when the blade was sprung up, and  brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.    13.27 *So the servants of the householder came  and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from  whence then hath it tares?*    13.28 *He said unto them, An enemy hath done  this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather  them up?*    13.29 *But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up  the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.*    13.30 *Let both grow together until the harvest*:  and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together  first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the  wheat into my barn.


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## Crown (Jul 5, 2010)

sidney said:


> Okay here is where I get convicted.....
> 
> *I Cor. 5:11 "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an* one no not to eat."
> 
> Notice that is says, "if a brother..."



Another one :
2Jn. 1:  7Many deceivers, who do  not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into  the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch out that you do not lose  what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9*Anyone who runs ahead and does  not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever  continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and  does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome  him. 11Anyone who  welcomes him shares in his wicked work. 

*who runs ahead and does  not continue in the teaching of Christ : an ex-brother/sister.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 5, 2010)

Great discussion ladies.


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## Crown (Jul 5, 2010)

For our time :

Jude 1: 17But, dear friends,  remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18They said to you, *"In the  last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly  desires." 19These are the  men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have  the Spirit. * 20But you,  dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in  the Holy Spirit. 21Keep  yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus  Christ to bring you to eternal life. 
 22*Be merciful to those who doubt*; 23*snatch others from the fire  and save them*; *to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the  clothing stained by corrupted flesh.*


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## luthiengirlie (Jul 6, 2010)

Crown said:


> For our time :
> 
> Jude 1: 17But, dear friends,  remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18They said to you, *"In the  last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly  desires." 19These are the  men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have  the Spirit. * 20But you,  dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in  the Holy Spirit. 21Keep  yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus  Christ to bring you to eternal life.
> 22*Be merciful to those who doubt*; 23*snatch others from the fire  and save them*; *to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the  clothing stained by corrupted flesh.*



* I want to ask an example of a scoffer I read the dictionary meaning of scoffer. It states :an expression of mockery, derision, doubt, or derisive scorn; jeer.. Would that be like:

Well You used to be a virgin, youse a Christian now huh??? Hmmps. You know no man will wait for a pathetic Christian girl who's had sex before. 


Is that what that means?  I'm deaf so I'm very literal in a sense of emotions so. Please forgive if my question sounds... Stupid, sidewaysish. *


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## Laela (Jul 6, 2010)

Great thread, Lady...

I've learned that if I just go ahead and judge myself daily  (Corinths 11:31), I wouldn't be judged. That's not to say a fellow  Believer cannot judge me by the Word. But more to mean judging my own thoughts/actions, asking myself  if this is something God wants me to do or would be pleased with -- it keeps me from doing wrong.

If I say I love God, I will desire to live right, to thirst for more of Him -- because He is in me. When I allow God to direct my paths daily, I WILL get convicted if even my very thought grieves the Holy Spirit. It's my understanding when we stop listening to the Holy Spirit, shutting him off, not obeying, that we are rejecting God and going down that slope to a reprobate mind; the Holy Spirit will eventually leave us  and the desire to please Him is no longer there. This is why communing with God daily is so important in a Christian's life. (Psalms 51) 

The only unpardonable sin is blasphemy of the Holy  Spirit.
So I believe we can't get so messed up, God can't fix us. 

The mind is the battlefield. IMHO, a Reprobate mind has NO desire to please God whatsoever.   








HeChangedMyName said:


> 2 Corinthians 13:5
> Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves . Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates ?
> 
> Hebrews 6:8
> ...


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## Crown (Jul 6, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> * I want to ask an example of a scoffer I read the dictionary meaning of scoffer. It states :an expression of mockery, derision, doubt, or derisive scorn; jeer.. Would that be like:
> 
> Well You used to be a virgin, youse a Christian now huh??? Hmmps. You know no man will wait for a pathetic Christian girl who's had sex before.
> 
> ...




I think your example is appropriate and can be included in 2Pe.2.

I love to study the Bible with concordance for a better understanding. When we look at the references for Jude 1:17, it is more about the faith, the sound doctrine preached by the apostles and the second coming of the LORD. 

2Pe. 3.1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 3.2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:  
  3.3 Knowing this first, that *there shall come in the last days scoffers*, walking after their own lusts, 3.4 And *saying, Where is the promise of his coming?* for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1Tim. 4.1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that  *in the latter times some shall depart from the faith*, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 4.2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 4.3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4.4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 4.5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Also please read Acts 20: 29-30; 2Pe. 2; 2Tim 3; 2Tim 4:3


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## Crown (Jul 6, 2010)

ITA!
The bolded, word of wisdom, is our daily spiritual meal.
We don't neglect to eat for the maintenance and the health of our body.
Praying and communing with GOD is our daily spiritual bread and prevent from a reprobate mind.




Laela said:


> Great thread, Lady...
> 
> I've learned that if I just go ahead and judge myself daily  (Corinths 11:31), I wouldn't be judged. That's not to say a fellow  Believer cannot judge me by the Word. But more to mean judging my own thoughts/actions, asking myself  if this is something God wants me to do or would be pleased with -- it keeps me from doing wrong.
> 
> ...


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 6, 2010)

Crown said:


> For our time :
> 
> Jude 1: 17But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18They said to you, *"In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." 19These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. *20But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 21Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
> 22*Be merciful to those who doubt*; 23*snatch others from the fire and save them*; *to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.*


 
this word scoffers is referenced as Strongs # 1703 which is defined as mockers 1, scoffers 1 
it is also used in 2 Peter 3:3 and the definition is in the scripture itself

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 


so the second scriptures describes scoffers as those walking in their own lust.

They are basically living in the flesh and have abanonded living and walking by the Spirit.  They do what feels good and what they want in spite of what they know is right and what God wants for us.



Crown said:


> ITA!
> The bolded, word of wisdom, is our daily spiritual meal.
> We don't neglect to eat for the maintenance and the health of our body.
> Praying and communing with GOD is our daily spiritual bread and prevent from a reprobate mind.


 

Yes, our daily manna.  I love the direction that this thread is going.  i just know it is helping break strongholds because some will perish for lack of knowledge. . .well this thread is full of knowledge.  loving the scriptural reference.


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## loolalooh (Jul 6, 2010)

Great topic, OP!

Some of ths has been addressed already in the thread and some new.  It looks to get on the topic of predestination.  I got this from http://www.gotquestions.org/reprobation.html.  Still sifting through it.  Your thoughts?

_"*Reprobation is the term used to describe those who by default are left in their fallen human nature to sin and to be eternally damned.* It can be the only possible consequence if, as Scripture declares, *God has foreknown and chosen others to eternal life through His only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ *(Ephesians 1:4-5; Romans 9:24-25). In Acts 13:48, we read ‘and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.” From this, we see that the decree of reprobation is a result of unbelief or rather the decree of reprobation results in unbelief. Some theologians declare from Scripture that God foreknew some and reprobated others, prior to the Fall of Adam. This is called supralapsarianism, from the Latin for ‘supra’ meaning ‘above’ and ‘lapsus’, meaning ‘fall.’ Others maintain that foreknowledge and reprobation were decreed to happen as a consequence of the Fall, and this is termed “infralapsarianism.” .....
*continued at the link above*."_

Decided to include more:
_The existence of the state of reprobation can be deduced from the Scriptures in many places, such as Proverbs 16:4 and Jeremiah 6:30, just to name two. Although it describes the fact that God has rejected some, there is a sense in which those whom He has rejected still serve His purposes, despite their wilful rebellion. *The best example is the raising up of Pharaoh in the book of Exodus. *Here was a man who clearly refused to obey God, despite Moses’ repeated petitions to let the Israelites leave the land of Egypt. But the thing we note about Pharaoh is that despite his wilful obstinacy, God will nevertheless be glorified through him. Reading Exodus 9:13-16, we note that God says He could have wiped the whole of Egypt and Pharaoh out of existence were it not for His wish to demonstrate His power and make His name known throughout the earth (Exodus 14:4,31). Clearly, God will fulfil all of His eternal purposes, both through those whom He has foreknown (Philippians 2:13) and through those whom He has rejected—the reprobate (Romans 9:22). In both cases, God will receive the highest honour and glory. _


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## luthiengirlie (Jul 6, 2010)

loolalooh said:


> Great topic, OP!
> 
> Some of ths has been addressed already in the thread and some new.  It looks to get on the topic of predestination.  I got this from http://www.gotquestions.org/reprobation.html.  Still sifting through it.  Your thoughts?
> 
> ...



Um... HUH?


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## loolalooh (Jul 6, 2010)

In case anyone is interested. Single, not double predestination: http://www.gotquestions.org/double-predestination.html:

_"Notice that God elects certain people beforehand for His glory. In other words, before the foundation of the world *God chose certain people to be His children in order that He would be glorified* *(see Ephesians 1:4). It does not say that God chose people to damnation or predestined people to wrath. *The Bible never speaks about a double predestination where God elects or predestinates some to hell, others to heaven. "_


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## loolalooh (Jul 6, 2010)

Deleted ... until I can confirm with the Word.


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## sidney (Jul 6, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> Um... HUH?


 

She's reffering to Calvinism/Election, the belief that some are predestined to be saved.  I believed in that for a season but I changed my mind about the validity of it.


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## Crown (Jul 6, 2010)

I am not Calvinist or other ist.

I believe in election and predestination, it is clearly stated in the Bible (Rom. 8:29-30; Eph. 1:5-11…). But this is *from the view of  YHWH* who is everlasting and knows all before the beginning.

For we, humans, it is :
Philippiens 2.12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, *work out your own salvation with fear and trembling*.

As humans, I think election/predestination can only be a personal belief, an encouragement to keep the faith.
This means compassion (passion /agape love for others) knowing that someone can be saved up to the last breath.

A reprobate mind : is this a permanent condition?
Yes and No.
Yes if it is a sin against the Holy Spirit : blasphemy (Mat. 12:31).
Yes or no in other cases. If we consider 1Cor. 5 for example, we could say this person has a permanent reprobate mind. Then, we see in 2Cor.2 that it is not the case.

[FONT=&quot]We have to be very careful when it is question of salvation (or damnation) and not put ourselves in the place of the LORD because we don’t know/view as HIM He knows/views.[/FONT]


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## loolalooh (Jul 6, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> Um... HUH?


 
On the reprobation article or on predestination?


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## sidney (Jul 6, 2010)

Crown said:


> I am not Calvinist or other ist.
> 
> I believe in election and predestination, it is clearly stated in the Bible (Rom. 8:29-30; Eph. 1:5-11…). But this is *from the view of YHWH* who is everlasting and knows all before the beginning.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, there are lots of scriptures that support predestination and other scriptures that clearly indicate that God has given each individual a choice.....and also that people can fall away from the faith.


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## Crown (Jul 7, 2010)

> Yes, there are lots of scriptures that support predestination and other scriptures that clearly indicate that God has given each individual a choice.....and also that people can fall away from the faith.


I think we are in agreement. No contradiction in the Word. This is why I said : from the view of YHWH (or Ayer Asher Ayer if you want). 
I think Paul explained it very well in Rom. Chapters 8 and 9.

Rom. 9 : 11 (for *the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil*, that *the purpose of God according to election* might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, _“The older shall serve the younger.”_ 13 As it is written, _“*Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated*.”_n made like unto Gomorrha.
  14 What shall we say then? *Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!* 15 For He says to Moses, _“I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”_ 16 *So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy*. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, _“*For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you*, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”_ 18 *Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.* 
  19 You will say to me then, “*Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?*” 20 But indeed, *O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?*” *21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? *
  22 *What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction*, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the *vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory*, 24 _even_ us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 

 But, we, humans, don’t have the right to decide who is for what, who has a permanent reprobate mind or not.


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## sidney (Jul 7, 2010)

Crown said:


> I think we are in agreement. No contradiction in the Word. This is why I said : from the view of YHWH (or Ayer Asher Ayer if you want).
> I think Paul explained it very well in Rom. Chapters 8 and 9.
> 
> Rom. 9 : 11 (for *the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil*, that *the purpose of God according to election* might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, _“The older shall serve the younger.”_ 13 As it is written, _“*Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated*.”_n made like unto Gomorrha.
> ...


 

Crown, thanks for all the supporting scriptures, I know exactly what you are talking about because I myself had become a 'self-proclaimed' Calvinist, which is a doctrine that is based on the christian belief of election and one of the central beliefs is Predestination. But upon further study I found that truly God is not a respector of persons (acts 10:34) and salvation is available for "whomsoever" desires to be saved (John 3:36).  God did not die for the sins of _certain _people, the word says in John 2, 'He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."  If I get some more time I will try to explain it more and post more solid scriptures.  I believe the doctrine of predestination is dangerous because it actually demotivated me from sharing the gospel because i felt "why bother, if it's already predetermined" *shrug*.  Anyhow, I will try to explain at a later time.  I do belief that God foreknew us and predestined us, but ultimately we still must decide to choose.  We all have free will.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 7, 2010)

We touched on the topic of predestination in one of my classes.  I'll have to remember which one and pull out my text book and notes from the class.  There was some great discussion and scriptural backup for the facts.  We came to a conclusion that God is in charge but not in control.  Which seemed OFF at first, but it was explained like this:  He is in charge, like a parent who is the head,  however, God(just like a parent) allows us to have self control and make choices and decisions while still being under his umbrella.  We are in control of whether or not we choose salvation.


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## sidney (Jul 7, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> We touched on the topic of predestination in one of my classes. I'll have to remember which one and pull out my text book and notes from the class. There was some great discussion and scriptural backup for the facts. We came to a conclusion that God is in charge but not in control. Which seemed OFF at first, but it was explained like this: He is in charge, like a parent who is the head, however, God(just like a parent) allows us to have self control and make choices and decisions while still being under his umbrella. We are in control of whether or not we choose salvation.


 
The only thing i can say is that "it's complicated" lol.  God grants us free will, yet nothing can happen unless he allows it.    But he is God, so these things can be true all at once.   I can't comprehend all of it.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 7, 2010)

sidney said:


> The only thing i can say is that "it's complicated" lol. God grants us free will, yet nothing can happen unless he allows it.  *But he is God, so these things can be true all at once. I can't comprehend all of it*.


 

EXACTLY! yes.


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## Sharpened (Jul 7, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> We touched on the topic of predestination in one of my classes.  I'll have to remember which one and pull out my text book and notes from the class.  There was some great discussion and scriptural backup for the facts.  We came to a conclusion that God is in charge but not in control.  Which seemed OFF at first, but it was explained like this:  He is in charge, like a parent who is the head,  however, God(just like a parent) allows us to have self control and make choices and decisions while still being under his umbrella.  We are in control of whether or not we choose salvation.


Interesting... I always saw it as He knows the outcome, but we don't and we are supposed to operate that way. Or, as my brother puts it, "God created the movie; we are living the playback."


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 7, 2010)

^^ I like that.  and yes, he knows the outcomes of the outcomes of every possible outcome.  BUT he doesn't force us into anything which is the most awesome part I love about God.  

He could easily make us all into robots who just did his will and i'm sure it'd be fine, but he allows us to make choices and learn and grow and love him because we do, and not because he forces us to.  


I love me some Him


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## HeChangedMyName (Jul 8, 2010)

got this in my inbox today. . .it  seems fitting to thie conversation we are having

Romans 8

 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 

 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 

 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 

 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


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## loolalooh (Jul 8, 2010)

I watched the following video on predestination a while ago.  Maybe it can provide further explanation for anyone interested:
http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/religionsaves/predestination

I want to state that this nor anyone's explanation is the end all be all.  Rely on the Word and your discernment from God.


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## loolalooh (Jul 8, 2010)

Nymphe said:


> Interesting... I always saw it as He knows the outcome, but we don't and we are supposed to operate that way. Or, as my brother puts it, "God created the movie; we are living the playback."


 
I think this is what counts!  Whether He has chosen some, it is *Him* that knows who and the outcome.  Not us.  We should continue to operate that way as you say.  E.g., continue evangelizing, continue "working out our salvation", etc.


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## Sharpened (Jul 8, 2010)

HeChangedMyName said:


> got this in my inbox today. . .it  seems fitting to thie conversation we are having
> 
> Romans 8
> 
> ...


You know, this dovetails into the "deny one's self/death to self" thing. Anyone engaged in "killing the flesh" won't even think about becoming reprobate.


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## Poohbear (Jul 9, 2010)

Can someone explain what "living a sinful life" is? So many Christians and people say that it's when you live a life of habitual continual sin with no remorse. Well, what about Christians and people who sin "every now and then" and feel bad for the sin they committed? Isn't that still living a sinful life?  Especially if you commit the same sin you had ask forgiveness for awhile back? Some people will say "well, no one can live sinless." When I hear that, it's not very encouraging. It sounds like an excuse to sin. To me, living a life completely without sin is the only to avoid a sinful life. How can one know the difference for themselves?


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## OhmyKimB (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't like that excuse either. But I think that it's a thin line thing...like genius and madness. We are all sinners, there's no beating that cuz we're not perfect. But there is a difference between trying to not do things and messing up. And doing something with no regard to whether it is right or not. And then on top of that knowing it is not right and being like "Oh Well."  The biggest difference to me is doing something that is wrong and wanting to change or to stop doing it (sinner), and doing something wrong and thinking the "oh well" about it. (sinful life)

And then if you are doing something that is wrong, but you try not to, then aside for asking for forgiveness it just seems like you should also seek God's strength and find out the cause for your sin. If you lie, maybe it comes from an insecurity and then you either need to try and work it out with God. Or then seek out help for the problem.


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## luthiengirlie (Jul 9, 2010)

Kimbb said:


> I don't like that excuse either. But I think that it's a thin line thing...like genius and madness. We are all sinners, there's no beating that cuz we're not perfect. But there is a difference between trying to not do things and messing up. And doing something with no regard to whether it is right or not. And then on top of that knowing it is not right and being like "Oh Well."  The biggest difference to me is doing something that is wrong and wanting to change or to stop doing it (sinner), and doing something wrong and thinking the "oh well" about it. (sinful life)
> 
> And then if you are doing something that is wrong, but you try not to, then aside for asking for forgiveness it just seems like you should also seek God's strength and find out the cause for your sin. If you lie, maybe it comes from an insecurity and then you either need to try and work it out with God. Or then seek out help for the problem.



Well due to my tinnitus. I admit I went back to old sins for comfort. But I stopped myself. I asked YHWH help me to get to the root of fear, andger, issues that cause me to sin. A reprobate person is gawn say: I'm this way the **** with it all! I mean He knows I got a problem. It aint MY FAULT! 


What I've learned with tinnitus that its a thin line between insanity and sanity. I'm really relying on YHWH each day to not make me snap. I believe I finally have a break through. I think a reprobate mind...snaps and stays in sin and its easy to remain there. Because it shuts it up...for a little while. Tinnitus has been known to drive one to suicide. Imagine what a little temptation can do?


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## SvelteVelvet (Jul 11, 2010)

Great discussion! 

What my understanding of it is, simply put, is a person who is beyond allowing the Holy Spirit to use them. Their desires and agendas override the will of God and scripture. That's why it's dangerous for preachers to become preachers for egotistical reasons which is why so many church's have the issues they do today. 

A reprobated mind will promote their philosophy's of life over scripture. Many of them will twist scripture to conform to what they want it to mean rather than rightly dividing the word. A reprobate will not seek the understanding they need to continue to receive wisdom, knowledge and understanding from the Holy Spirit. 

They come to a point where they "know it all" and can't nobody tell them anything...which will ultimately make them the biggest fools around because the Word of God and the Lord is not revealed completely in any one person's life time. People come close. But the truest Bible scholars will even say that every day the Bible is revealing something new. A reprobated mind is not open to the newness, therefore they stay stuck in old patterns, and they'll stay stuck for life because they don't believe they need to change. Truly believe they understand the Bible, when they don't and it ends up being to their detriment.

Many of them think they can Hallelulah, sing and dance their way to heaven and nothing else. Many reprobates come from people who were born and raised up in the ministry. There are *some* pastors kids who love saying "Oh I didn't grow up in the world" They believe because their parents were who they were then they have this automatic entrance into heaven. I call them modern day Pharissees and Sadducees. Biggest heathens up in church continuing backwards Christianity through generations, twisting the word to fit whatever they like putting on shows behind the pulpit, yelling and screaming and not saying a Word from the Holy Spirit.

Everyone must be careful, but for the most part those who are called to be used, and I do believe every Christian is used in someway shape or form, you don't have to be preaching. Just keep in mind there is never a point in life where you can just push the cruise button on your salvation. We must constantly study, constantly search ourselves. Reprobates will study and search everybody and their mama before themselves.


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## luthiengirlie (Jul 11, 2010)

SvelteVelvet said:


> Great discussion!
> 
> What my understanding of it is, simply put, is a person who is beyond allowing the Holy Spirit to use them. Their desires and agendas override the will of God and scripture. That's why it's dangerous for preachers to become preachers for egotistical reasons which is why so many church's have the issues they do today.
> 
> ...




I hear you!!!!!!!!! U making too much sense now. Arrogance is NOT cute. Is this why hearing people say"pride goes before a fall?"


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## SvelteVelvet (Jul 11, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> I hear you!!!!!!!!! U making too much sense now. Arrogance is NOT cute.* Is this why hearing people say"pride goes before a fall*?"


 
That's a way of putting it or looking at it. It's definately the prideful that fall into reprobation. Yep, so we must remain humble, submitted to the word and Holy Spirit and God's will OVER our wants and desires. Sometimes our wants aren't what God wants. People who let their desires overtake them and go against God's will to acquire it, convince themselves it's of God when it obviously goes against scripture, usually turn reprobate as well. Man, I just realized how much I can go on about this...I've seen too much. It's saddening and frustrating when I think about it because I've watched it close. It's soo easy to fall into and scary. I just can't imagine becoming a person God deems as useless. I try to honor Him in everything. I've made some hard decisions denying my flesh but looking back I can see it was the trap the enemy was trying to set for me and I just thank the Spirit for guiding me through it and strengthening me through it.


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## Poohbear (Jul 12, 2010)

SvelteVelvet said:


> Great discussion!
> 
> What my understanding of it is, simply put, is a person who is beyond allowing the Holy Spirit to use them. Their desires and agendas override the will of God and scripture. That's why it's dangerous for preachers to become preachers for egotistical reasons which is why so many church's have the issues they do today.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your perspective SvelteVelvet! I've never seen a reprobate mind in this type of way. I was always told/taught that a reprobate is someone that simply does not believe in God or Jesus and is doomed for Hell, but now I see that a reprobate can actually be some self-proclaimed Christians among us who are hypocrites and who twist the Word of God to fit their agendas and personal beliefs and opinions.


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## luthiengirlie (Jul 12, 2010)

Had a crazy insane thought hmm about reprobate mind.

there are some that claim that sadducees and pharisees where the line of cain (ahem son of you know who) (but that's another thread)

I know  that Yeshua said thier daddy was the devil. and they were EXTREMELY legalistic  that it is so easy for them to be "double-minded. 
ahem. crazy thought forgive me if it's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy outta left field.


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