# Mega church pastor beaten to death....



## Rainbow Dash (Oct 30, 2012)

*Mega church pastor beaten to death with electric guitar by man who rammed car into church* 

A North Texas congregation is reeling after an attacker rammed a car into a church wall, chased the pastor, and beat him to death with an electric guitar. 

Police told reporters they didn't know why the unidentified suspect attacked Rev. Danny Kirk Sr., founding pastor of the Greater Sweethome MIssionary Baptist Church.
In a harrowing 911 call an unidentified church secretary said that some staff tried to fight him off but that Kirk was in desperate need of an ambulance.

'My pastor's bleeding, he's been attacked,' the worker tells dispatchers while locked in her office.'I'm not going out there. I need real help fast. Send policeman. I do need an ambulance also.'


'Does your pastor know him?' the dispatcher asked.
'I have no idea.'

The unidentified assailant apparently drove his car into the church wall on purpose shortly before noon.

He then began to attack Kirk in the parking lot before chasing him into the church, according to Forest Hill Police Chief Dan Dennis. 

When police arrived they found the suspect striking Kirk with an electric guitar they believe was already in the church.

When police arrived they had to use a Taser to subdue the man, handcuffed him, and locked him in their patrol car.
Sadly it was too late for Kirk who had already died.

A maintenance worker who tried to help Kirk was also injured and taken to an area hospital but his condition is unknown. 

The assailant himself was found unresponsive shortly after being taken into custody and was pronounced dead at a local hospital.

Dennis told reporters police did not yet know if the suspect knew Kirk, attended the church, or what his motives were for attacking the pastor.

For hours after the shocking attack hundreds gathered outside the church, gathering around the crime-scene tape wrapped around a small statue of Jesus near the wrecked car. 


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...aten-death-electric-guitar.html#ixzz2An2DZsVo


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## Rainbow Dash (Oct 30, 2012)

This grieves me....we must stay in prayer. These crazy attacks against the people of God are just  .


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## allmundjoi (Oct 30, 2012)

Sounds like sex or money.

Wait, why is the attacker dead? That was glossed over.


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## TopShelf (Oct 30, 2012)

What do you mean by people of God?


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## Goombay_Summer (Oct 30, 2012)

I don't think this was some random attack but that this man definitely had an axis to grind with the good reverend, which makes me wonder if the Pastor was sweet- hearting (Bahamian slang for having an affair) with his attackers DW/SO.


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## Goombay_Summer (Oct 30, 2012)

TopShelf said:


> What do you mean by people of God?


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## Rainbow Dash (Oct 30, 2012)

TopShelf said:


> What do you mean by people of God?


 
Christians


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 30, 2012)

First thing I thought but I'm really hoping that this is not the case...either way it's bad for his family and the congregation ...



hanna_light said:


> I don't think this was some random attack but that this man definitely had an axis to grind with the good reverend, which makes me wonder if the Pastor was sweet- hearting (Bahamian slang for having an affair) with his attackers DW/SO.


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## Blackpearl1993 (Oct 30, 2012)

How awful. I don't know the background on this situation, but no matter what it's awful for the pastor, his family, the church, the community, the attacker and his family. I pray for them all.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 30, 2012)

I won't assume and judge the situation...that's not my place as a Christ follower, but I will say that this is sad all around for his family, friends and congregants.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 30, 2012)

Here's what really happened: Again, people need to stop judging people who die, based on the acts of others.  Shame


*Brother: Man didn't know Texas pastor he killed*

By ANGELA K. BROWN
Associated Press /                                      
October 30, 2012                                             

                FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — Worried after a week of  increasingly bizarre  conversations with his younger brother, Glen  Birdow drove to Fort Worth  last weekend, hoping to understand why his  brother was saying people  were trying to kill him and that someone had  stuck a needle in his arm.

              Derrick Anthony Birdow was fidgeting and acting paranoid,  but refused  to check himself into a hospital. The 33-year-old married  father of  four insisted he was fine, his brother said.

              But Derrick Birdow left his Fort Worth home Monday, passed  by  numerous churches and rammed his car into the side of Greater  Sweethome  Missionary Baptist Church in nearby Forest Hill. There, he  got out of  his car and beat the Rev. Danny Kirk Sr. to death with an  electric  guitar.

              ‘‘The person that I knew was loving and caring, and he was  not a  killer,’’ Glen Birdow, 39, of San Antonio, told The Associated  Press on  Tuesday. ‘‘I just don’t know what happened. I'm so sorry for  the  pastor’s family.’’

Derrick Birdow did not know the pastor or attend that church, his  brother said. Derrick  Birdow enjoyed his job as a truck driver and  didn’t have a history of  mental illness, his brother said, adding that  he didn’t believe that his  brother used drugs.

Birdow died Monday after being found unresponsive in the back of a   patrol car, where he was taken after officers subdued him with a Taser   and handcuffed him, Forest Hill Police Chief Dan Dennis said. Kirk, 53,  died at the scene. Forest Hill police said Tuesday the investigation was  continuing.

The Tarrant County Medical Examiner’s Office has not yet released how   Birdow died. The Texas Rangers are investigating Birdow’s death because   he died in police custody, Dennis said.

Tarrant County court records show that in 2004, Derrick Birdow  pleaded  guilty to aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and was  sentenced to  five years in prison. Glen Birdow said his brother believed  a man had  stolen money from him and police refused to help, and then he  shot the  man.

Derrick Birdow also served 35 days in jail in 2004 for a misdemeanor   drunken driving charge, court records show. In 2000, he received 45 days   in jail for misdemeanor assault of a family member, and in 1999 he was   sentenced to 120 days in jail for possessing a controlled substance,   court records show.

On Monday, his cousin, Christopher Henderson, said that Derrick  Birdow had been *‘‘out of his head’’ the past week, saying people were  after him*.  When asked if Birdow used drugs, Henderson said that his cousin believed that someone may have given him drugs.

‘‘He’s just been acting off the wall,’’ Henderson told The Associated Press outside of the church.


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## LifeafterLHCF (Oct 30, 2012)

The pastor served his purpose here. His time was up.His mission was complete. This was suppose to happen no matter how horrific in order to bring awareness to things and to push others to grow. It takes things like this for some to open their eyes to things.


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## BostonMaria (Oct 30, 2012)

Wow!  This is so sad.

Sent from my iPhone 10 using LHCF


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 30, 2012)

GoddessMaker said:


> The pastor served his purpose here. His time was up.His mission was complete. *This was suppose to happen no matter how horrific in order to bring awareness to things and to push others to grow.* It takes things like this for some to open their eyes to things.


What do you mean by this?


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## LifeafterLHCF (Oct 30, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> What do you mean by this?




For some it will push them to go deeper with God. For others it will wake them the heck up about what is going on in the world. IMO, there are many a church goer who doesn't see the real issues of society. They are sheltered in their church going bubble. Sometimes in the after mass of horrific things it awakens people. I'm in insensitive to the pain this issue may cause but on the larger scale the pastors life served the purpose God had him here for.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 30, 2012)

GoddessMaker said:


> For some it will push them to go deeper with God. For others it will wake them the heck up about what is going on in the world. IMO, there are many a church goer who doesn't see the real issues of society. They are sheltered in their church going bubble. Sometimes in the after mass of horrific things it awakens people. I'm in insensitive to the pain this issue may cause but on the larger scale the pastors life served the purpose God had him here for.


I hear you, but I'm not understanding.  Maybe someone else can come in and help me to understand what you are saying is connected to this pastor and the way he died.


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## LifeafterLHCF (Oct 30, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I hear you, but I'm not understanding.  Maybe someone else can come in and help me to understand what you are saying is connected to this pastor and the way he died.




I have a differing viewpoint. The pastor died horrifically.For some people that may be the wake up call to get their selves together, like wow life is short,even a pastor someone you would think is covered from such type of things wasn't. I need to get myself right with God. I have seen this happen many times when horrible things happen.


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## Laela (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks for the update N&W..... two similiar instances in one week. 

Recently another guy was sentenced to killing another N Texas pastor, minding his business writing a sermon! 

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/texas...Texas-pastor-s-killing-gets-death-3952984.php

*These are attacks against the Body of Christ*... I believe that, because it's beyond the death (or martydom) of one person - entire families and  congregations are affected; however it should be for better. The enemy is trying to get people scared, frightened to go to church, to get mad at God, to give up...  We are living under Grace..  

God has already warned us of coming persection...*being harmed for no other reason than for being on His side.*  It will only continue, as per God's Word.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 30, 2012)

YW, Laela.  I know and both had people thinking the worse about them.

I didn't know about another pastor who died at the hands of someone.

ITA.  The attacks are against the Body of Christ.  It hurts me to see this and to see the pain and the hurt on the faces of the congregants of these ministers whom people loved.  Fear torments...this is true.

Thank you for always being a rock...it's so needed here.

Love you, Laela 



Laela said:


> Thanks for the update N&W..... two similiar instances in one week.
> 
> Recently another guy was sentenced to killing another N Texas pastor, minding his business writing a sermon!
> 
> ...


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## Laela (Oct 30, 2012)

Yes, lady... and when I'd seen one of the members of the church, sprawled out on the grounds of the church bawling her eyes out in sorrow. How deep it must cut the heart, to lose a pastor... Yes, we know absent in the body... God is always in control..... but with oneness of Spirit, we hurt when other Christians are hurting. 

Once again..the pastor, the HEAD of the church was targeted...





Nice & Wavy said:


> It hurts me to see this and to see the pain and the hurt on the faces of the congregants of these ministers whom people loved.


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## momi (Oct 30, 2012)

I believe this is some type of demonic activity... 
The pastor that was murdered at World Changers was laid to rest on yesterday.


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## Nice Lady (Oct 30, 2012)

I believe the devil wants to put people in apprehension and keep them from gaining ground. Anytime,  God is getting ready to do some big things for ; the devil wants Christians to draw back from following God's plan. We need to pray for Body of Christ's leaders safety and protection from the devil's weapons. God's word still is true despite these realities. God is still a protector and refuge. He defeats the devil's plans, period.


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Health&hair28... I'm sorry that your thread was disrespected... since when is it assumed money or sex is the cause of the tragic death of a pastor?   

Nice & Wavy and Laela, Iwanthealthyhair67, blackpearl1993  and........ thank you for putting the right perspective in here.   

I'm holding my peace as my words have far too much power.  


The Body of Christ is under attack and this spirit of murder is rendered null and void, in the Name of Jesus.   The enemy's plan shall not prevail and it is turned upon himself and NOT the _people of God _in Jesus' Name.    

This mess is going on in the wrong camp, the devil is ordered to back off, in the name of Jesus;  these weapons shall no more prosper nor be set against the Body of Christ in Jesus' Name.   It's giving the enemy too much 'confidence' which indeed is a false veil which shall not cloud the wisdom of God from resting upon His Children and yielding the fruits of righteousness upon those who seek and follow Him.  

Father place your fenced brazen wall around your people and let them not fall under the hands of the enemy.   Protect them no matter where they are, or where they have to be; surround them with your angels who battle for them and secure them from the enemy.    

Unto you do we give all glory, all honour, all praise and glory... in Jesus' Name, Amen.   It is your Blood Covenant of Protection that we give you full honour and praise for... Amen.


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## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Health&hair28... I'm sorry that your thread was disrespected... since when is it assumed money or sex is the cause of the tragic death of a pastor?
> 
> Nice & Wavy and Laela, Iwanthealthyhair67, blackpearl1993  and........ thank you for putting the right perspective in here.
> 
> ...



Disrespected? Really? By suggesting that he (A MAN) may have been beaten to death by a guitar (which is extreme, unusual and sounded personal) could be linked to sex or money? So now pastors are above all the frailties and weaknesses of other men? Please stop Shimmie.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

Laela said:


> Yes, lady... and when I'd seen one of the members of the church, sprawled out on the grounds of the church bawling her eyes out in sorrow. How deep it must cut the heart, to lose a pastor... Yes, we know absent in the body... God is always in control..... but with oneness of Spirit, we hurt when other Christians are hurting.
> 
> Once again..the pastor, the HEAD of the church was targeted...


Yes, Laela...oh my goodness.  My heart was so heavy when I saw that picture of her.  I wouldn't even want to imagine.



momi said:


> I believe this is some type of demonic activity...
> The pastor that was murdered at World Changers was laid to rest on yesterday.


I believe that demonic activity is increasing throughout the earth and against God's people because the end is near.  We are seeing it...I believe nicola.kirwan said it best "The earth is groaning...".  I bet it was so hurtful to see that young man laid to rest yesterday...



Nice Lady said:


> I believe the devil wants to put people in apprehension and keep them from gaining ground. Anytime,  God is getting ready to do some big things for ; the devil wants Christians to draw back from following God's plan. *We need to pray for Body of Christ's leaders safety and protection from the devil's weapons.* God's word still is true despite these realities. God is still a protector and refuge. He defeats the devil's plans, period.


It's very difficult as a leader in the church because you never know when something like this will happen, however, we don't fear because we know where we will go.  It's really something though to see this and know that the church has to be on alert, especially during the day when there are only a few people working there..people come in all the time for different things.  Crazy....



Shimmie said:


> @Health&hair28... I'm sorry that your thread was disrespected... since when is it assumed money or sex is the cause of the tragic death of a pastor?
> 
> @Nice & Wavy and @Laela, @Iwanthealthyhair67, @blackpearl1993  and........ thank you for putting the right perspective in here.
> 
> ...


Amen and thank you for this prayer, Shimmie.....Jesus is Lord over His Church!!!



allmundjoi said:


> Disrespected? Really? By suggesting that he (A MAN) may have been beaten to death by a guitar (which is extreme, unusual and sounded personal) could be linked to sex or money? So now pastors are above all the frailties and weaknesses of other men? Please stop @Shimmie.


allmundjoi Pastors are not above frailties and weaknesses of men....they are men and women who are here to do a work for the Lord.  However, anytime something like this happens, the first thing that people say is that it must be sex, or little boys, or money----even before finding out what happen and that can be disrespectful.

As a minister, it hurts me when I read this type of thing.  I for one would appreciate if people would hear the full story first before making a judgment about it.


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## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

allmundjoi said:


> Disrespected? Really? By suggesting that he (A MAN) may have been beaten to death by a guitar (which is extreme, unusual and sounded personal) could be linked to sex or money? So now pastors are above all the frailties and weaknesses of other men? Please stop Shimmie.



My intent was not to disrespect. I was stating the probabilities and realities of situations like this. Honestly, when things like this (deliberately crashing into a building, beating with a musical instrument, etc) happen the probability that the victim knew the attacker, it involved sex/money /drugs is VERY high. The fact that this occurred by a stranger is very, very unusual and I would call it rare, not just uncommon. The fact that this man was a pastor had little bearing on my previous statement. He could have been a mechanic or a doctor and my response would have been the same. In any case, it is a tragic event.


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 31, 2012)

Why must we always assume the worst about people? If you think it was about sex and drugs or WHATEVER, keep that to yourself but don't come in here spreading that junk. We as "Christians" should be the first to think pure hearted. I am not mad at anyone in this thread but we really have to do better than this. Do we not know that his church family, natural family and friends or hurting? I love my pastor like a father and if anything like this happened I would be devastated. Why could we not turn this thread into something dealing with prayer instead of such negativity?

I will keep these people in prayer


1 Cor 4:5

*Therefore judge nothing before the time*, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

John 7:27

*Judge not according to the appearance*, but judge righteous judgment


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 31, 2012)

I think this may be a trick of the enemy to get people fearful in the house of God. The church was always meant to be a place of refuge and rest. But now people may be constantly looking over their shoulders or even worse, scared to go to church at all.. But God has not given us a spirit of fear. The devil is a liar...


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## felic1 (Oct 31, 2012)

This is terrible. How horrifying to the family and church family. If you are dead, even by accident, it was your time to go. It cannot be changed. The whole thing is senseless. Two men dead and families suffering loss. Perhaps the taser was too strong? I do not know much about it ( a taser's strength).


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## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> Why must we always assume the worst about people? If you think it was about sex and drugs or WHATEVER, keep that to yourself but don't come in here spreading that junk. We as "Christians" should be the first to think pure hearted. I am not mad at anyone in this thread but we really have to do better than this. Do we not know that his church family, natural family and friends or hurting? I love my pastor like a father and if anything like this happened I would be devastated. Why could we not turn this thread into something dealing with prayer instead of such negativity?
> 
> I will keep these people in prayer
> 
> ...



Check yourself ma'am. You assumed the worst. I stated sex & money in have my op. The attacker could have owed the pastor money and refused to pay and became irate. The attacker could have wanted the pastors wife. Idk. 'Sex & money'  just meant that may be involved and implies a world of possibilities. No fault was assigned to the pastor (at least in my post). You derived that. You inserted how it was involved. 

And I am pleased to announce that I can post anywhere in LHCF. Please feel  free to avoid my posts. Heck, block me. Posts are allowed to be ignored and not every post has to be commented on or acknowledged


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

allmundjoi said:


> My intent was not to disrespect. I was stating the probabilities and realities of situations like this. *Honestly, when things like this (deliberately crashing into a building, beating with a musical instrument, etc) happen the probability that the victim knew the attacker, it involved sex/money /drugs is VERY high. The fact that this occurred by a stranger is very, very unusual and I would call it rare, not just uncommon.* The fact that this man was a pastor had little bearing on my previous statement. He could have been a mechanic or a doctor and my response would have been the same. In any case, it is a tragic event.


Allmundjoi, this isn't true.  My step-dad died at the hands of someone and he was a good man.  He was walking pass the guy and the guy said that he was sent to get him so he hit him in the head with a piece of wood with a nail in it and it killed him.  

People don't understand that when they say things like this, how it can affect people in other areas.  

Even if he was a mechanic or a doctor, why even say anything about a dead man?  We can't go around judging people like this.  Suppose someone does it to you about a family member or even you? I know you wouldn't like it...no one can tell me any different.

You are entitled to you opinion I just wish you would think about how it may affect other people before you say things.  See how you said those things and then found out you were wrong?


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## LucieLoo12 (Oct 31, 2012)

allmundjoi said:


> Check yourself ma'am. You assumed the worst. I stated sex & money in have my op. The attacker could have owed the pastor money and refused to pay and became irate. The attacker could have wanted the pastors wife. Idk. 'Sex & money' just meant that may be involved and implies a world of possibilities. No fault was assigned to the pastor (at least in my post). You derived that. You inserted how it was involved.
> 
> And I am pleased to announce that I can post anywhere in LHCF. Please feel free to avoid my posts. Heck, block me. Posts are allowed to be ignored and not every post has to be commented on or acknowledged


 
Um, I did not say any names, nor did I quote your post . And you are right, you are free to post where ever you would like to, so am I.  You can avoid mine too. Have a good day!


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## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Allmundjoi, this isn't true.  My step-dad died at the hands of someone and he was a good man.  He was walking pass the guy and the guy said that he was sent to get him so he hit him in the head with a piece of wood with a nail in it and it killed him.
> 
> People don't understand that when they say things like this, how it can affect people in other areas.
> 
> ...



Please reread my post. I wasn't speaking in absolutes, but in probabilities given the nature of the situation. And no where in my post did I suggest that either party was a 'good man' or 'bad man'. 

Sorry for your step father.


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## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> Um, I did not say any names, nor did I quote your post . And you are right, you are free to post where ever you would like to, so am I.  You can avoid mine too. Have a good day!



No names? Well, pray tell, which of the less than 30 posts was it? Right.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

allmundjoi said:


> Please reread my post. I wasn't speaking in absolutes, but in probabilities given the nature of the situation. And no where in my post did I suggest that either party was a 'good man' or 'bad man'.
> 
> Sorry for your step father.


Thank you, allmundjoi.

I knew you were not speaking in absolutes in that post, but even in probabilities we need to be mindful.  I am the one that said that my step-dad was a 'good man' I know you didn't state that, that was what I was sharing about the situation with my family member.  

Now, suppose there is a member on here who is a member of that church and that was her pastor.  How would that make you feel if she came in and made a post stating how hurt she is because she read your post and the posts of others.  I would feel so bad knowing that she feels so bad that not only are people saying things about him and how he died, but about his character as well.  It's not right, allmundjoi and there are times, yes even like this, where an apology should be made.


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## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thank you, allmundjoi.
> 
> I knew you were not speaking in absolutes in that post, but even in probabilities we need to be mindful.  I am the one that said that my step-dad was a 'good man' I know you didn't state that, that was what I was sharing about the situation with my family member.
> 
> Now, suppose there is a member on here who is a member of that church and that was her pastor.  How would that make you feel if she came in and made a post stating how hurt she is because she read your post and the posts of others.  I would feel so bad knowing that she feels so bad that not only are people saying things about him and how he died, but about his character as well.  It's not right, allmundjoi and there are times, yes even like this, where an apology should be made.



Apologize? For what? No, I will not apologize for my op. I am not sure what land you all live in because you speak as if you are so insulated you do not know the realities and truths of thus world. This appeared as a crime of passion (the ferociousness of the attack). Per history, people kill predominantly for money (power) and/or sex. To SUGGEST that this may be the motives involved in this vicious attack is not malicious, erroneous or a moment to reflect & apologize. So, no apology will spill from this fingers wrt that.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

allmundjoi said:


> Apologize? For what? No, I will not apologize for my op. I am not sure what land you all live in because you speak as if you are so insulated you do not know the realities and truths of thus world. This appeared as a crime of passion (the ferociousness of the attack). Per history, people kill predominantly for money (power) and/or sex. To SUGGEST that this may be the motives involved in this vicious attack is not malicious, erroneous or a moment to reflect & apologize. So, no apology will spill from this fingers wrt that.


Do as you wish, allmundjoi.  Your words will show who you really are.


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

allmundjoi said:


> My intent was not to disrespect. I was stating the probabilities and realities of situations like this. Honestly, when things like this (deliberately crashing into a building, beating with a musical instrument, etc) happen the probability that the victim knew the attacker, it involved sex/money /drugs is VERY high. The fact that this occurred by a stranger is very, very unusual and I would call it rare, not just uncommon. The fact that this man was a pastor had little bearing on my previous statement. He could have been a mechanic or a doctor and my response would have been the same. In any case, it is a tragic event.



Where's your compassion that a man died?  This should have been anyone's initial response rather than such a cold and misguided projection of this  man's character to be negative, which turned out to be disproven.  

There are sick and crazy people in this world, those who harm the innocent both unknown to each other. Unfortunately this occurs far too often followed by the lack of compassion of a lost life just because the person happens to be a Pastor or associated with the Church is some way... 

This maddess has to stop.


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## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Do as you wish, allmundjoi.  Your words will show who you really are.



As will yours. *shrug*


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## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Where's your compassion that a man died?  This should have been anyone's initial response rather than such a cold and misguided projection of this  man's character to be negative, which turned out to be disproven.
> 
> There are sick and crazy people in this world, those who harm the innocent both unknown to each other. Unfortunately this occurs far too often followed by the lack of compassion of a lost life just because the person happens to be a Pastor or associated with the Church is some way...
> 
> This maddess has to stop.



Whoa. Loss of compassion because he'd a pastor? Where? How? Ok. Smh. 

I do gave compassion for this man and his family, but to apologize for suggesting common and obvious motives for a passionate-appearing killing? No. Where do y'all live? How do y'all get through the day? Smh.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

allmundjoi said:


> As will yours. *shrug*


Those that know me, know what I stand for and its for good and not to harm anyone.

I'm done here...carry on, which I'm sure you will.


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## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Those that know me, know what I stand for and its for good and not to harm anyone.
> 
> I'm done here...carry on, which I'm sure you will.



Same here. *shrug*


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## Avidprayer (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm relatively new and although I primarily lurk as I like to become familiar with new environments before engaging myself in them, I would like to post that from what I have read and discovered on the forums thus far this area of the forum (the Christian part) is the most drenched (and I mean that positively) in love that I have ever seen. I appreciate the way that even if one doesn't agree with another member everyone still walks in love and accepts others opinions as gracefully as one can WITHOUT taking down their own standard. 

I would like to add that I feel very bad for the pastor's family and church family who are now experiencing the aftereffects of a lost loved one, and I pray that the Lord helps them through this time. I also just occurred to me while typing this that these types of situations are why we as Christians and those in leadership as a whole are expected to live lives as blamelessly as possible before men. I am not saying in any way shape or form that the Pastor did anything deserving of this, and it is my hope and prayer that he didn't.

I pray that the Lord blesses his family and his church family with peace during this time and covers them all with the blood of Jesus Christ. I also pray for a smooth transition in the leadership of the church and that the family would not feel betrayed by the congregation because the ministry has to continue. 

Thank you ladies for the example of love that you're showing, I really needed to see this today. 

Be Blessed Everyone!!!!!


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

allmundjoi said:


> Whoa. Loss of compassion because he'd a pastor? Where? How? Ok. Smh.
> 
> I do gave compassion for this man and his family, but to apologize for suggesting common and obvious motives for a passionate-appearing killing? No. Where do y'all live? How do y'all get through the day? Smh.



It's called rightly discerning a situation.  That's how we live.


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Avidprayer said:


> I'm relatively new and although I primarily lurk as I like to become familiar with new environments before engaging myself in them, I would like to post that from what I have read and discovered on the forums thus far this area of the forum (the Christian part) is the most drenched (and I mean that positively) in love that I have ever seen. I appreciate the way that even if one doesn't agree with another member everyone still walks in love and accepts others opinions as gracefully as one can WITHOUT taking down their own standard.
> 
> I would like to add that I feel very bad for the pastor's family and church family who are now experiencing the aftereffects of a lost loved one, and I pray that the Lord helps them through this time. I also just occurred to me while typing this that these types of situations are why we as Christians and those in leadership as a whole are expected to live lives as blamelessly as possible before men. I am not saying in any way shape or form that the Pastor did anything deserving of this, and it is my hope and prayer that he didn't.
> 
> ...



Avidprayer...

:welcome3:    

Thank you for such a beautiful compliment to our Christian Forum.  

Love,
Shimmie


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

momi said:


> I believe this is some type of demonic activity...
> The pastor that was murdered at World Changers was laid to rest on yesterday.





Nice Lady said:


> I believe the devil wants to put people in apprehension and keep them from gaining ground. Anytime,  God is getting ready to do some big things for ; the devil wants Christians to draw back from following God's plan. We need to pray for Body of Christ's leaders safety and protection from the devil's weapons. God's word still is true despite these realities. God is still a protector and refuge. He defeats the devil's plans, period.



Thank you ...


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> I think this may be a trick of the enemy to get people fearful in the house of God. The church was always meant to be a place of refuge and rest. But now people may be constantly looking over their shoulders or even worse, scared to go to church at all.. But God has not given us a spirit of fear. The devil is a liar...



This is definitely an attack upon the Church.  All the more to be in 'high' worship in the House of God, instead of being fearful.   The enemy runs from the praises of God.   

Each time in the Bible when the children of God gave a shout and high praises, the enemies were subdued, walls fell, victories were achieved.  

All the more, praises unto God, in the Houses of Praise. 

In Jesus' Name, Amen.


----------



## SummerSolstice (Oct 31, 2012)

Sounds like a hit to me. I always side-eye when people say that the killer was not right in the head a few days before... thats soooo weird and it never gets addressed


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Oct 31, 2012)

Very sad...this is a picture of the pastor and his family. Also the quote is from his son. 


"My dad [is the] best guy ever," said Danny Kirk Jr., the pastor's son. "I mean, anything I needed, anything the church needed, he was going to do. [He was the] best guy ever on this side of heaven, I promise you that much."


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## Laela (Oct 31, 2012)

That is truth.... thanks for being the voice of reason in this thread!



Nice & Wavy said:


> Those that know me, know what I stand for and its for good and not to harm anyone.


----------



## Laela (Oct 31, 2012)

Pictures don't lie.. you can see the happiness in the young man's eyes and from his own words, he seemed to have had a great relationship with his dad.


I always emphathize with PKs because of the unnecesssary burdens (and often unrealistic expectations) others put on them b/c their parents are preachers. Nice photo!




Health&hair28 said:


> Very sad...this is a picture of the pastor and his family. Also the quote is from his son.
> 
> 
> "My dad [is the] best guy ever," said Danny Kirk Jr., the pastor's son. "I mean, anything I needed, anything the church needed, he was going to do. [He was the] best guy ever on this side of heaven, I promise you that much."


----------



## allmundjoi (Oct 31, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> It's called rightly discerning a situation.  That's how we live.



I can only speak for my posts-you are absolutely wrong.


----------



## Laela (Oct 31, 2012)

Beautiful prayer and I agree, Amein~

Be blessed as welll......




Avidprayer said:


> *I pray that the Lord blesses his family and his church family with peace during this time and covers them all with the blood of Jesus Christ. I also pray for a smooth transition in the leadership of the church and that the family would not feel betrayed by the congregation because the ministry has to continue. *


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## Laela (Oct 31, 2012)

I agree.. a hit by Satan


erplexed


SummerSolstice said:


> *Sounds like a hit to me.* I always side-eye when people say that the killer was not right in the head a few days before... thats soooo weird and it never gets addressed


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm amazed that he knew most of his members first names in such a large church, to me that speaks of the care that he had for people






Health&hair28 said:


> Very sad...this is a picture of the pastor and his family. Also the quote is from his son.
> 
> 
> "My dad [is the] best guy ever," said Danny Kirk Jr., the pastor's son. "I mean, anything I needed, anything the church needed, he was going to do. [He was the] best guy ever on this side of heaven, I promise you that much."


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> Very sad...this is a picture of the pastor and his family. Also the quote is from his son.
> 
> 
> "My dad [is the] best guy ever," said Danny Kirk Jr., the pastor's son. "I mean, anything I needed, anything the church needed, he was going to do. [He was the] best guy ever on this side of heaven, I promise you that much."



This just breaks my heart; such a beautiful family.   I can't begin to imagine how his wife and son are hurting right now.   Now the 'son' becomes the 'Man of the House' to take care of his mom.   Looking at this man's family picture, and thinking of the horrid torture that he endured being so unjustly attacked.   

Lord have mercy...this hurts.  I'm not even 'there' and yet this hurts.


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Laela said:


> I agree.. a hit by Satan
> 
> 
> erplexed



This is so true Laela.   

He roams as a 'lion', seeking whom he may devour.  

Oh BUT God!  The devil is rebuked in the name of Jesus.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 31, 2012)

Shimmie it it's any consolation it's suppose to hurt we are apart of the body ...



I look at their picture and I feel as if I know them


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> Shimmie it it's any consolation it's suppose to hurt we are apart of the body ...
> 
> 
> 
> I look at their picture and I feel as if I know them



Thanks 'Healthy Hair'...  I receive that.  

And Sis, you are so on point, as I felt as if I 'knew' them as well, when I saw their picture.   That just hurts all the more.


And to think I was having a 'pity-party' just because the power went out during the storm.  It was barely 36 hours that we were without power.   This brings me to a place of personal conviction...


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## Laela (Oct 31, 2012)

It's uncanny you said that HealthyHair... wow





Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> @Shimmie it it's any consolation it's suppose to hurt we are apart of the body ...
> 
> 
> 
> *I look at their picture and I feel as if I know them*


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Laela said:


> It's uncanny you said that HealthyHair... wow



Laela...   Yes, very.   Healthy Hair's words just 'fit' what was in my heart I read her post.   I feel as if I 'know' them.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (Oct 31, 2012)

Laela said:


> Yes, lady... and when I'd seen one of the members of the church, sprawled out on the grounds of the church bawling her eyes out in sorrow. How deep it must cut the heart, to lose a pastor... Yes, we know absent in the body... God is always in control..... but with oneness of Spirit, we hurt when other Christians are hurting.
> 
> Once again..the pastor, the HEAD of the church was *targeted*...


 
............
nevermind.


----------



## SummerSolstice (Oct 31, 2012)

the pic of the family makes me really sad. 
they need to address what was up with the killer. that makes no sense to me.


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## MrsHaseeb (Oct 31, 2012)

SummerSolstice said:


> the pic of the family makes me really sad.
> they need to address what was up with the killer. that makes no sense to me.



What's disturbing about this is that people who are not saved can be possessed by the enemy to try and bring harm to the people of God. I'm wondering if something did not happen with the attacker that left him open for spiritual possession. We all know the enemy comes to steak, kill, and destroy and for some reason satan was able to use this man to attack the people of God. This wasn't just an attack on the pastor and his family but the members and community that loved him as well. It is attempt to make people lose faith in God. I pray for healing and restoration to the family, community and church. In Jesus name. Amen.

Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Oct 31, 2012)

It may never make any sense, cause we may never know the answer but know that God is still God ...




SummerSolstice said:


> the pic of the family makes me really sad.
> they need to address what was up with the killer. that makes no sense to me.


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

MrsHaseeb said:


> What's disturbing about this is that people who are not saved can be possessed by the enemy to try and bring harm to the people of God. I'm wondering if something did not happen with the attacker that left him open for spiritual possession. We all know the enemy comes to steak, kill, and destroy and for some reason satan was able to use this man to attack the people of God. This wasn't just an attack on the pastor and his family but the members and community that loved him as well. It is attempt to make people lose faith in God. I pray for healing and restoration to the family, community and church. In Jesus name. Amen.
> 
> Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF



Drugs, sexual molestation (as a child/teen); physical/mental abuse, abandonment as a child.   Drugs / alcohol abuse (addiction) are an open door to spiritual possession / a deranged mind.    

I notice that a lot of stores that sell alcohol are called 'Spirit Shops', these words are literally written on their store signs and / or doors.    The word of God speaks in Proverbs 20:1, that_ 'strong drink' is raging_.    

I know that 'weed defenders' will have an uproar about this, however, marijuana has a detrimental effect upon the brain, whether it is a child or an adult.  When folks are high they are crazy and will say and do things that they would not otherwise, under the influence.    

Also, he may have been born with a mental disorder, a chemical imbalance which drove him into such a rage.  He may not have been taking his medication; many people become non-complient with the Rx due to the side effects.   Men especially if / when it effects their sexual arousal.  A lot of these men have problems with impotence with psych meds, and choose not to take them, but they need to stay with their doctors to get the Rx regulated to counter this reaction.  

Either way, this attack upon this Pastor and the others, are all totally demonic in nature...totally demonic.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

Avidprayer said:


> I'm relatively new and although I primarily lurk as I like to become familiar with new environments before engaging myself in them, I would like to post that from what I have read and discovered on the forums thus far this area of the forum (the Christian part) is the most drenched (and I mean that positively) in love that I have ever seen. I appreciate the way that even if one doesn't agree with another member everyone still walks in love and accepts others opinions as gracefully as one can WITHOUT taking down their own standard.
> 
> I would like to add that I feel very bad for the pastor's family and church family who are now experiencing the aftereffects of a lost loved one, and I pray that the Lord helps them through this time. I also just occurred to me while typing this that these types of situations are why we as Christians and those in leadership as a whole are expected to live lives as blamelessly as possible before men. I am not saying in any way shape or form that the Pastor did anything deserving of this, and it is my hope and prayer that he didn't.
> 
> ...


Welcome!  I for one am so glad that you are here.  Thank you for observing the CF and sharing your heart with us, and especially your prayer!  I so look forward to more of your posts here on CF!  God bless you! 



Laela said:


> That is truth.... thanks for being the voice of reason in this thread!


 thank you, sis!



Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> @Shimmie it it's any consolation it's suppose to hurt we are apart of the body ...
> 
> 
> 
> *I look at their picture and I feel as if I know them*


Me too...oh man


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Welcome!  I for one am so glad that you are here.  Thank you for observing the CF and sharing your heart with us, and especially your prayer!  I so look forward to more of your posts here on CF!  God bless you!
> 
> thank you, sis!
> 
> Me too...oh man



Nice & Wavy... you've definitely been the 'voice of reason' in this thread.   

There's so much pain in so many Churches, deep pain...unmerited; nothing brought on by the victims' behaviour of which they've been accused.   

My prayer is:  _Father God, show us what you are revealing to the Body of Christ.  What is your message?  We are here, listening.  _



Something that comes to mind...

Each of these Ministers are Black men...

This is occurring near the elections...

I'm not making 'hyperbole' from this (no sensation), it was just a thought...  Just a thought.

*tearful sigh*


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

Hey sis...I'm glad you are feeling better 

There is much pain...much pain and its not going unnoticed...God sees all!



Shimmie said:


> @Nice & Wavy... you've definitely been the 'voice of reason' in this thread.
> 
> There's so much pain in so many Churches, deep pain...unmerited; nothing brought on by the victims' behaviour of which they've been accused.
> 
> ...


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Hey sis...I'm glad you are feeling better
> 
> There is much pain...much pain and its not going unnoticed...God sees all!



Thanks sis... I still have some 'bass' in my voice. I sound like Barry White...   It's clearing up.  I'm still talking...  

Back on topic:

Somehow, I feel our Black men and also the Black Church is under attack.  

Most of the Black Church is 'traditional and maintaining a righteous stand'.  The enemy is after leaders who will not bend to compromise to the world.   

It ends right now, in Jesus' Name.   No hype, just a fact.  It ends, in the Name of Jesus.    Enough is enough.


----------



## demlew (Oct 31, 2012)

Hi everyone,
I've never posted in the CF before, but I noticed this thread when I was scanning.  This murder occurred less than 20 miles from my home, so it's been top of the news every night. I'm posting the link to a great article in the local paper regarding the congregation and family during this tragedy.

I also happen to live less than a mile from where the other pastor was slain as he wrote his sermon. 

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/1...-forest-hill-church.html#my-headlines-default


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## auparavant (Oct 31, 2012)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/31/man-who-killed-texas-pastor-mentally-ill-his-widow-says/


Yes, there is a spiritual element.  However, perhaps the greatest problem is the level of mental illness going untreated where people assume that G-d will create a miracle.  They don't often seek treatment but push it under a rug.  They have help because the message out there is "you don't need a psychologist/psychiatrist, you need Jesus."  Well, don't we all.  However, Jesus might be trying to tell you, "I'm with you but see the psychiatrist, son."  If only people would treat mental illness as a disease, which it is...  We give side-eyes to those who recommend somebody avoid the oncologist and just pray, right?  Christians do themselves a great disservice by avoiding the appropriate channels to treating and/or healing mental illness.  We hear that psychology is "evil," or somehow ineffective and fail to treat the full humanity, complexity of man.  

Sometimes, He just wants us to use medicine and counseling which He enabled us to develop to help people.  The man was mentally ill.  Yes, there are always attacks against the church of many kinds and since it's birth.  But if the black community, in particular, would wake up and help eradicate or at least TREAT the high level of mental illness in it, some of these types of tragedies would be somewhat avoidable.  It's very unfortunate.


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

demlew said:


> Hi everyone,
> I've never posted in the CF before, but I noticed this thread when I was scanning.  This murder occurred less than 20 miles from my home, so it's been top of the news every night. I'm posting the link to a great article in the local paper regarding the congregation and family during this tragedy.
> 
> I also happen to live less than a mile from where the other pastor was slain as he wrote his sermon.
> ...



demlew ...

 

It cannot be easy for you to live so close to both of these tragedies.    Thank you for coming in to share this with us; it's helping to give us more insight and perhaps somewhere near an understanding if only in part.

God bless you and please feel welcome to join the discussion here.   You are most welcome.  :Rose:


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Oct 31, 2012)

demlew said:


> Hi everyone,
> I've never posted in the CF before, but I noticed this thread when I was scanning. This murder occurred less than 20 miles from my home, so it's been top of the news every night. I'm posting the link to a great article in the local paper regarding the congregation and family during this tragedy.
> 
> I also happen to live less than a mile from where the other pastor was slain as he wrote his sermon.
> ...


 

Thanks for posting the link... the quote from the article by the son is just something. His dad put alot of good things in him and it shows through his speech. 

I pulled this from the article....


Kirk's son said that his father was smiling down on the gathering. "Daddy, I got Mama," the teenager said. "You don't have to worry no more. You did what you had to do on this side. But you didn't name me Danny Kirk Jr. for no reason. I'm not going to mess up your name."I didn't know that I'd be a man at 17, but it looks like I'm going to be one, and I'm going to be a good one."

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/1...hurch.html#my-headlines-default#storylink=cpy​


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Listen to this man's son...his father taught him well and he is full of the Holy Spirit...  


The Pastor's 17-year-old son, Danny Kirk Jr., drove the point home.

_"You're crying like you don't know where he is going, or where he is," he shouted. "But I serve a God who can raise the dead and heal the sick. That's why I have an assurance and a faith. I still have joy."_

Kirk's son said that his father was smiling down on the gathering. 

*"Daddy, I got Mama," the teenager said. *"You don't have to worry no more. You did what you had to do on this side. 

*But you didn't name me Danny Kirk Jr. for no reason. I'm not going to mess up your name.*

*"I didn't know that I'd be a man at 17, but it looks like I'm going to be one, and I'm going to be a good one."*

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/10...dlines-default

   

Look at the son he raised...  

   

God lives in the young man's heart.  He taught his son well.  

demlew... Again... thank you for *so much * and God bless you, for sharing this with us.  It is so inspiring to see a young Black teen, standing up for his father, ready to follow suit to take care of his mom.


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> Thanks for posting the link... the quote from the article by the son is just something. His dad put alot of good things in him and it shows through his speech.
> 
> I pulled this from the article....
> 
> ...



Health&hair28 ... isn't he a joy?   We posted at the same time.   Praise God.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Thanks sis... I still have some 'bass' in my voice. I sound like Barry White...   It's clearing up.  I'm still talking...
> 
> Back on topic:
> 
> ...


...well, I'm just happy that it's clearing up, cause I need Shimmie's voice back!

You are so right...the enemy is striking leaders and I'm grateful for all these leaders because they do stand for TRUTH!!!  Praise God!


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

demlew said:


> Hi everyone,
> I've never posted in the CF before, but I noticed this thread when I was scanning.  This murder occurred less than 20 miles from my home, so it's been top of the news every night. I'm posting the link to a great article in the local paper regarding the congregation and family during this tragedy.
> 
> I also happen to live less than a mile from where the other pastor was slain as he wrote his sermon.
> ...


Welcome, demlew! 

I'm glad that you posted for the first time in the CF.  I'm sure your heart is heavy knowing this is happening not far from where you live.  I believe that the Lord placed you in your location to pray, for such a time as this.

The article was really good, as it showed the people who love God and loved their pastor.  His parents and sister picture made me  and the picture of his wife made me  .  I would never want to ever be in her position

His son blessed me with his words and I thank God that he will be used for His Glory.  I pray victory over that young man's life, in Jesus Name.

Thank you, again for sharing!


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

auparavant said:


> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/31/man-who-killed-texas-pastor-mentally-ill-his-widow-says/
> 
> 
> Yes, there is a spiritual element.  However, perhaps the greatest problem is the level of mental illness going untreated where people assume that G-d will create a miracle.  They don't often seek treatment but push it under a rug.  They have help because the message out there is "you don't need a psychologist/psychiatrist, you need Jesus."  Well, don't we all.  However, Jesus might be trying to tell you, "I'm with you but see the psychiatrist, son."  If only people would treat mental illness as a disease, which it is...  We give side-eyes to those who recommend somebody avoid the oncologist and just pray, right?  Christians do themselves a great disservice by avoiding the appropriate channels to treating and/or healing mental illness.  We hear that psychology is "evil," or somehow ineffective and fail to treat the full humanity, complexity of man.
> ...



I think it's a disservice to think that Christians are avoiding the issues of mental illness as well as others.     

One of the problems with a mentally ill person is that you cannot 'make' them see a doctor or if /when they do, you cannot 'make' them take their medications.     This accounts for soooo many issues such as violence in the home, the job, and elsewhere.   

Now one can call the police and have the person taken away if they become violent, and / or become a threat to others or themselves, however as it was documented in the article, they can only 'hold' the person but so long.  

A family member or friend can also call an outside organization for an 'intervention'.   This is where a two counselor's along with a police officer come to your home (or the home of the person who is mentally ill or is taking drugs), to access the person's degree of illness.    The person is then taken to an ER and if compliant, will be transferred to an facilty for further treatment.    However if the patient is not compliant, they cannot make them take the meds, or further treatments and the patient is released.

I know this because my family has lived this for years with my younger sister.  She will not take her medications and she has her highs and lows. What messed her up was getting addicted to street drugs; she wasn't born with a mental disorder; she got involved with a man who turned her onto drugs and her life has never been her own, since.   

The article is clear that this man had the illness but for some reason he was not getting treatment.    I don't understand why his wife was just noticing that he had mental issues, when quite clearly his past tells it all.   He's been in trouble, he's been arrested and yet it seems that no one acquired treatment for him or he rejected it.   

This goes back to the Black Church who are indeed addressing this problem; they can't ignore it.   It's in the neighborhoods where many of the Churches are located.   Many of these Churches have outreach programs reaching out to those who do have mental illness or drug induced imbalances in their brains.   The Churches are not hiding under a rock in denial.  They are facing this head on and indeed prayer is at the Helm for only a fool would go without prayer.   However the Churches cannot make someone cooperate if they are unwilling.   

There is a strong indication that this man may have been under some type of treatment with an Rx.   He kept saying someone was trying to give his needles, this could be one of two things.   He may have been receiving an deconate, where the medication which is time released, is injected into the muscle (usually the upper arm).  This is usually given to patients who are noncompliant and the medication is in their system for 2 weeks or more.   Once they are stabilized on the medication, they are more reasonable to continued treatment.     However in the cases with many men, the medication strengths can cause impotence and they being men, will forego the medication; however the meds can be adjusted to help with the impotence. 

Like I said upwards the Churches are indeed involved.  Much of it is private as it should be for people.   Even in the hospital and clinics there are the HIPAA Privacy Rules, to protection one's confidentiality.   The Church follows the same principles.


----------



## auparavant (Oct 31, 2012)

As in "honey, you don't need a psychologist, just come and pray about it."
There is an undeniable culture of "trust G-d, not the psychologist" in the Black community, it's even present on LHCF.  There was equally a culture of "trust G-d, not the doctor" in the same community and so many have perished and/or lived with treatable illness for far too long.  It's come a very long way in reversing a lot of that.  Prevention is the key.  Churches post-Reagan are trying to pick up the pieces of a society that didn't see the reasoning behind aggressive treatment.  And in general, the U.S. treats mental health issues like we treat dentistry - optional.  Even the medicine/treatment behind it is relatively new.  

I'm trying to get at generalities in the community as a whole.  People who need marital counseling don't always see the pastor/counselors at their churches.  They think they can pray away a problem rather than use psychology to understand man's condition/behavior to work through a problem. Doest G-d work miracles?  Yes, but He also gives medical talent to his hands....us.  

 I'm sorry, but it's undeniable.  This thread has been about the death, the shock of it, who was possibly guilty of improprieties, demonic action etc.  To me, the blazing question was the mental health issue so largely glossed over in the Black community, esp. by the faithful and I took the opportunity to bring it up again.


----------



## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

auparavant said:


> As in "honey, you don't need a psychologist, just come and pray about it."
> There is an undeniable culture of "trust G-d, not the psychologist" in the Black community, it's even present on LHCF.  There was equally a culture of "trust G-d, not the doctor" in the same community and so many have perished and/or lived with treatable illness for far too long.  It's come a very long way in reversing a lot of that.  Prevention is the key.  Churches post-Reagan are trying to pick up the pieces of a society that didn't see the reasoning behind aggressive treatment.  And in general, the U.S. treats mental health issues like we treat dentistry - optional.  Even the medicine/treatment behind it is relatively new.
> 
> I'm trying to get at generalities in the community as a whole.  People who need marital counseling don't always see the pastor/counselors at their churches.  They think they can pray away a problem rather than use psychology to understand man's condition/behavior to work through a problem. Doest G-d work miracles?  Yes, but He also gives medical talent to his hands....us.
> ...



Aupar.. this man's actions are indeed demonic, there's no escape from that fact.   There are two forces in this world, good and evil.   The latter (evil) no matter what the reason, came from an evil spirit.  

I don't know what your experiences are in the Church community, however I've been extensively involved with 100's for over 20 years.   I know too many Church leaders, personally, all over this country, I worked as an office Manager in a Mental Health clinic for over seven (7) years.   I KNOW from personal association, direct communication and involvement that the Churches and Christians by the 100's of thousands are deeply involved with doctors, for all aspects of life.     

Perhaps there are some who choose not to see a doctor, however this occurs with those who are not in the Church even more so, those who are not Christians or otherwise.   I know this from working directly with medical doctors. 

I'm not attempting to go back/forth on this issue with you for I am not in contention, however I know better, the Church is very much involved and very much on top of these issues far more than they are given credit for.  

As for the man in this tragedy, he didn't attend Church so this theory against the Church doesn't apply to this particular sad situation.  

Ending this in peace.  :Rose:


----------



## Laela (Oct 31, 2012)

In all fairness, at the bolded... when the news broke, the one true fact is someone was killed. All the other variables weren't confirmed or accurate. So of course we'd be discussing the death, its affect, etc, at the hearing of the news. No one knew early on if mental health issues were involved. One thing for sure, is nothing but Good comes from God..He doesn't seek to kill, steal or destroy. So anything that is evil* is of the devil.* Period. Murder is evil. God is sovereign and nothing happens without Him allowing it.

Let me land and hop off my chariot for a minute..  

I certainly do understand what you're saying...concerning the comments in read. I won'tt speak for everyone but when I say we must Trust God, that is not to say we shouldn't use our intelligence, Godly wisdom or the talents God gave us. When we trust God, we trust that He sends us the right people, gives us the right tools, etc. Afterall, He did give us wisdom and a mind to use. So with the Godly wisdom we already have, what are we going to do about it? 

I agree, blacks folks (generally) don't like to go to the doctors to get checked, don't feel we need medication, etc., Not making excuses, but we must also remember there are also barriers and hurdles, like lack of accessibility to insurance and other programs, poverty and lack of resources that do keep people from getting help they need. Who can they turn to? GOD!
Also, should Christians go to pyschologists who don't believe or care about God to mess with their heads? God forbid, wisdom must apply there as well. There are, thankfully, Christians who use apply their Godly knowledge and wisdom to their crafts. That said, someone's situation could worsen if they go to the wrong doctor or counselor for help with their marriage. For a Christian, Godly counsel is vital in making life decisions. So, YES..trust God that He will guide us to the right people. There it is again..can't get around trusting God 

*One thing I will also note is* that I believe society has gotten so removed from the days of Christ, that things that are demonic in nature gets a label or a "politically correct" name. In the Bible, a person who was "not in their right mind" was under the influence of demons or even possessed. It behooves us to not gloss over that as well....






auparavant said:


> *There is an undeniable culture of "trust G-d, not the psychologist" in the Black community, it's even present on LHCF. . *
> 
> They think they can pray away a problem rather than use psychology to understand man's condition/behavior to work through a problem. Doest G-d work miracles? Yes, but He also gives medical talent to his hands....us.
> 
> *I'm sorry, but it's undeniable. This thread has been about the death, the shock of it, who was possibly guilty of improprieties, demonic action etc. To me, the blazing question was the mental health issue* so largely glossed over in the Black community, esp. by the faithful and I took the opportunity to bring it up again.


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## auparavant (Oct 31, 2012)

Well, I agree with you that it was a very evil act.  It had evil influence...but there is a certain stigma attached to being mentally ill.  His wife actually thought of Kirk as her pastor.  The general black co mmunity is religious.  

We all realize we cannot force people into treatment...but often, the church is playing catch-up to the society in which it lives when it could better lead the way...that was my basic point.  Look at child protection, domestic violence, AIDS and sti/std's, divorce, single parenthood from oow births, general lack of healthcare...  If not a condemnation on the church for lack of comprehension about these issues or latent admission and action...it's an opportunity imho.  I have many thoughts on this and was going to make a thread.  I just wanted to point out an issue that had been brought up mnany times here.  Obviously, this is very tragic and this is an individual case.  But this is not a unique one and it's only going to get worse.


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## auparavant (Oct 31, 2012)

Laela said:


> Godly wisdom or the talents God gave us. When we trust God, we trust that He sends us the right people, gives us the right tools, etc. Afterall, He did give us wisdom and a mind to use. So with the Godly wisdom we already have, what are we going to do about it?
> 
> I agree, blacks folks (generally) don't like to go to the doctors to get checked, don't feel we need medication, etc., Not making excuses, but we must also remember there are also barriers and hurdles, like lack of accessibility to insurance and other programs, poverty and lack of resources that do keep people from getting help they need. Who can they turn to? GOD!
> .



Black culture has had a cultural/religious paradigm shift and has mostly lost it's connection to traditional methods of handling physical and mental illness.  They had begun to incorporate the European mindset and I believe that much of the "counseling" that would have occurred alongside prayers and supplication for the person have been dropped and replaced with hope in a miracle.  Churches has an incredible opportunity to look at the levels of mental illness in their respective communities and make a difference in treatment if they allocate funds towards those endeavors.  It won't take over a healthcare system, but it could provide support where it's most needed.  

Alongside prayer, you work through your problem by finding the source of the negative thinking with trained counselors operating within the same religious frame.  Obviously, there are many levels of mental illness and some absolutely require psychiatric care but the most common form is depression which doesn't have to be a permanent condition.  It's just a thought.  The lack of mental health support in the black community is well-documented.  Churches can help lessen that gap.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

Shimmie & Laela,

If I were in a place where I needed help...I would ask God to send the two of you because your hearts are right with God!

I am so blessed by your posts that I'm just gonna sit here and read your posts, and take in all that I can!

:notworthy


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Shimmie & Laela,
> 
> If I were in a place where I needed help...I would ask God to send the two of you because your hearts are right with God!
> 
> ...



I give God praise for wisdom and guidance, for I refuse to mess it up.


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## Laela (Oct 31, 2012)

N&W, all the praise goes to God, that we all share His Wisdom in these discussions. God is still working on me, chica.. lol


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 31, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> I give God praise for wisdom and guidance, for I refuse to mess it up.  :kiss;





Laela said:


> N&W, all the praise goes to God, that we all share His Wisdom in these discussions. God is still working on me, chica.. lol


Just like I knew you would say....I love you both so much!!!!! 

I just sent you both a pm....I need you both for something very serious!

Love you and goodnight...get some rest!


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## Shimmie (Oct 31, 2012)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Just like I knew you would say....I love you both so much!!!!!
> 
> I just sent you both a pm....I need you both for something very serious!
> 
> Love you and goodnight...get some rest!



Got it... on it!


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## Shimmie (Nov 1, 2012)

Closing Reflections:

Have you noticed?   We know this man, this honourable Pastor, this man of God, yet he is being treasured here among us in this thread.   

The enemy is the one who got the 'beat down'.   

This Pastor's son, said it all...

_ "Daddy, I got Mama," the teenager said. "You don't have to worry no more. You did what you had to do on this side. 

But you didn't name me Danny Kirk Jr. for no reason. I'm not going to mess up your name.  "I didn't know that I'd be a man at 17, but it looks like I'm going to be one, and I'm going to be a good one." _

To God be the Glory... 


Sweet sleep, eveyone


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 1, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Closing Reflections:
> 
> Have you noticed?   We know this man, this honourable Pastor, this man of God, yet he is being treasured here among us in this thread.
> 
> ...


I have noticed...and its a blessing to know that there are people who truly care about others here on the CF.

Goodnight!


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2012)

this really made me teary eyed ...




demlew said:


> Hi everyone,
> I've never posted in the CF before, but I noticed this thread when I was scanning. This murder occurred less than 20 miles from my home, so it's been top of the news every night. I'm posting the link to a great article in the local paper regarding the congregation and family during this tragedy.
> 
> I also happen to live less than a mile from where the other pastor was slain as he wrote his sermon.
> ...


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2012)

*AMEN!*

.....



Laela said:


> In all fairness, at the bolded... when the news broke, the one true fact is someone was killed. All the other variables weren't confirmed or accurate. So of course we'd be discussing the death, its affect, etc, at the hearing of the news. *No one knew early on if mental health issues were involved. One thing for sure, is nothing but Good comes from God..He doesn't seek to kill, steal or destroy. So anything that is evil is of the devil.* *Period. Murder is evil. God is sovereign and nothing happens without Him allowing it.*
> 
> Let me land and hop off my chariot for a minute..
> 
> ...


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## demlew (Nov 1, 2012)

Shimmie and Nice & Wavy:
I became misty-eyed as I read everyone’s kind words.  Even though I enjoy the other parts of the forum (I’ve grown my hair to just past shoulder-length and I’m all caught up on Hollywood ), the more time I spend in the CF, the more it feels like finding shelter during a storm.  I feel warm and loved by complete strangers and that’s a testament to the compassion God gave us all to share with others.  Even the disagreements have a different vibe here!

On a personal note: I lost my job this past June; it was the first job I was passionate about and believed it would be my career. It still may be – only God knows my path right now.  I became depressed as I grieved over the loss; I told my friends I technically counted this position as my first serious relationship - more than any romantic one because I had wanted it since I was twelve, even though I didn’t know what it was called.  

Long story short: It’s November 1st and I’m still out of work.  I’m in a better place emotionally, but I could use some spiritual help.  I’m asking you ladies to please add me to your prayer list and I will add you to mine.

Have a blessed day!


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Nov 1, 2012)

I had to read again too ....



Nice & Wavy said:


> @Shimmie & @Laela,
> 
> If I were in a place where I needed help...I would ask God to send the two of you because your hearts are right with God!
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Nov 1, 2012)

demlew said:


> Shimmie and Nice & Wavy:
> I became misty-eyed as I read everyone’s kind words.  Even though I enjoy the other parts of the forum (I’ve grown my hair to just past shoulder-length and I’m all caught up on Hollywood ), the more time I spend in the CF, the more it feels like finding shelter during a storm.  I feel warm and loved by complete strangers and that’s a testament to the compassion God gave us all to share with others.  Even the disagreements have a different vibe here!
> 
> On a personal note: I lost my job this past June; it was the first job I was passionate about and believed it would be my career. It still may be – only God knows my path right now.  I became depressed as I grieved over the loss; I told my friends I technically counted this position as my first serious relationship - more than any romantic one because I had wanted it since I was twelve, even though I didn’t know what it was called.
> ...



You are offically 'embraced' into our hearts and prayers.  

As for your job, God has better, He always does.  November 1st represents, a brand new beginning, designed just for you.  

Welcome to the Life of Trusting God.  It's a journey beyond words, yet full of blessings to behold.


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## LucieLoo12 (Nov 1, 2012)

Laela said:


> *One thing I will also note is* *that I believe society has gotten so removed from the days of Christ, that things that are demonic in nature gets a label or a "politically correct" name. In the Bible, a person who was "not in their right mind" was under the influence of demons or even possessed. It behooves us to not gloss over that as well*....


 

Preach!


When society see someone with "Multiple Personality Disorder" or schizophrenia (sp)  they think that they just need some meds, but something is seriously wrong there, spiritually.


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## Nice & Wavy (Nov 1, 2012)

demlew said:


> @Shimmie and @Nice & Wavy:
> I became misty-eyed as I read everyone’s kind words.  Even though I enjoy the other parts of the forum (I’ve grown my hair to just past shoulder-length and I’m all caught up on Hollywood ), the more time I spend in the CF, the more it feels like finding shelter during a storm.  I feel warm and loved by complete strangers and that’s a testament to the compassion God gave us all to share with others.  Even the disagreements have a different vibe here!
> 
> On a personal note: I lost my job this past June; it was the first job I was passionate about and believed it would be my career. It still may be – only God knows my path right now.  I became depressed as I grieved over the loss; I told my friends I technically counted this position as my first serious relationship - more than any romantic one because I had wanted it since I was twelve, even though I didn’t know what it was called.
> ...


Sis, God has you in the palms of His hands...everytime He puts His hands in front of Him, He sees you! 

Trust Him that He will work out all things for you.  Sometimes when we are at that place of weariness...that 11th hour...that's when the Lord gives you what you need...He wants all the glory!!!

I will most certainly keep you in my prayers...Jesus is Lord over your life and your finances!!!


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## Blackpearl1993 (Nov 1, 2012)

demlew said:


> Shimmie and Nice & Wavy:
> I became misty-eyed as I read everyone’s kind words.  Even though I enjoy the other parts of the forum (I’ve grown my hair to just past shoulder-length and I’m all caught up on Hollywood ), the more time I spend in the CF, the more it feels like finding shelter during a storm.  I feel warm and loved by complete strangers and that’s a testament to the compassion God gave us all to share with others.  Even the disagreements have a different vibe here!
> 
> On a personal note: I lost my job this past June; it was the first job I was passionate about and believed it would be my career. It still may be – only God knows my path right now.  I became depressed as I grieved over the loss; I told my friends I technically counted this position as my first serious relationship - more than any romantic one because I had wanted it since I was twelve, even though I didn’t know what it was called.
> ...


 Sister,

I pray that God pours out a blessing on you. When a door closes, God opens a window (I've even known him to cut through stone walls when necessary ). I pray that you will have peace and that your new opportunity, a fresh wind comes quickly. You are on to bigger and better!


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## Shimmie (Nov 2, 2012)

This of this Dear Family and Church Community today.   Praying for them with a full heart.   Father God, restore their joy and help them through this 'heavy' time in their lives.   

In Jesus' Name, Amen.  :Rose: 

Rest in Peace Dear Pastor, Rest in Peace.   :Rose:


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## LoveisYou (Nov 8, 2012)

We fight not against flesh or blood.....


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