# Why Is It BAD to use OIL when PRESSING/FLAT IRONING?



## brownsugarflyygirl (Jan 27, 2007)

Okay...so I know cones and silk proteins are good for protecting hair when using heat.

But I remember someone saying that using oil was bad because it causes some part of the hair shaft to boil or something scientific like that.  Can Navs, Sistaslik, anyone explain to me why using straight oil is bad?

Anybody ever use sweet almond oil or any other natural oil alone consistently over time with good results?

Just curious...since I am in Bootcamp...I have nothing better to do than PONDER heat regimens, regiments, regimes


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## trulyurangel82 (Jan 27, 2007)

using oils and flat ironing basically just frys your hair. Its like using an oil and a skillet. When it frys your hair it can damage the hair and make it dry. I know from experience ive used oil and flat ironing once and my hair just looked fried and dry.

Now using oils for everyday use is okay but not when using heat.


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## Crissi (Jan 27, 2007)

trulyurangel82 said:
			
		

> using oils and flat ironing basically just frys your hair. Its like using an oil and a skillet. When it frys your hair it can damage the hair and make it dry. I know from experience ive used oil and flat ironing once and my hair just looked fried and dry.
> 
> Now using oils for everyday use is okay but not when using heat.


 
ITA and ive experienced the same thing..however what r we meant to use then? because water boils the shaft, making it expand and what not causing breakage over time...im guessing we just use cone filled products like serums?... as a natural i'd love to know


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## gymfreak336 (Jan 27, 2007)

Having hot oil hit your scalp can also cause hair loss.


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## navsegda (Jan 27, 2007)

brownsugarflyygirl said:
			
		

> Okay...so I know cones and silk proteins are good for protecting hair when using heat.
> 
> * But I remember someone saying that using oil was bad because it causes some part of the hair shaft to boil or something scientific like that*.  Can Navs, Sistaslik, anyone explain to me why using straight oil is bad?
> 
> ...


Pretty [email protected] bolded.  No one should EVER be using oil to flat iron their hair.  The reason why heat gets such a bad rap is because so many people don't use it correctly.  With all the new technology and science for flat irons today, people should just NOT be getting heat damage.  But even if you have the most advanced technology in the world, if you misuse heat then your hair will get damaged in some way.  One way to misuse it is by using oils.  Another way is to use the wrong source of heat.  I don't care how well someone's $19.99 Gold N Hot flat iron straightens their hair, not all heat is the same.  Ceramic emits constant, even far infrared heat that is supposed to help lock in moisture (far infrared heat produces water molecule resonance and in turn resonance of atoms) and also eliminates bacteria/detoxifies the hair.  These are the same types of infrared ions that can be used in cancer patients on a daily basis to kill cancer cells (while not damaging healthy ones even with all the exposure).  If they can be used safely on cells that are much more sensitive (like tissues inside the body pelted by nerves), then they should NOT be damaging your hair (tissues that are already dead and therefore a lot less sensitive).  Infrared heat is a type of radiant heat that heats through conversion (and changing the conformation of the atoms around the bonds without touching the air in between).  Come on, scientists know what they are doing.  It's not their fault that the rest of the world doesn't.  

The bonds in oils break very very easily.  The purpose of heat protectants is to have compounds that are strong enough to withstand heat without the bonds in them breaking, and thus, prevent all the heat from getting directly on the strand.  If you are using an oil, then it cannot protect your hair strands because the heat is going to burst through them and get straight to your hair.  Oil also pops and "fries" when it comes into contact with a heat source.  So essentially, it's not really just the heat of the flat iron, it's the heat of the flat iorn PLUS the hot oil that you just created on your strands.  We all know what happens when we get accidentally popped by hot oil.  Your hair may be looking real glossy and "fly," but it's probably ready to slap you in the face for burning it.  Even though the purpose of new infrared technology is to basically eliminate possibility of heat damage on its own, you can add one or more factors that cancel this out (by using oil or a temperature way too high for instance or going over a section 25 times).

Also, other miscellaneous tips on flat ironing to test if you are doing something wrong:

1.  Your hair is sizzling.  YOUR HAIR SHOULD NOT BE SIZZLING.  If you hear a sizzle, package your flat iron up and send it back before you do some damage.  If you see or smell smoke, whether product, the iron, or the hair, then you've done something wrong (ie the temperature is way too high).
2.  You should not go over a piece more than once.  Seriously, one time oughta do the job.  I know that far infrared heat is safer and you can spend more time exposed to it than conventional heat but regardless of this, act like you didn't just read what I said and just go over it once. 
3.  You should always use a heat protectant.  Always always.  Better to be safe than sorry.
4.  I know this may sound arcane to some but when you flat iron a piece of your hair it should NOT, I repeat, NOT, be feeling hot to the touch right after the iron has passed over an area.  You should be able to flat iron and the second it leaves a spot, touch it and feel the hair straight but cool.  As I have said many times before, heat should only be changing the positions of the atoms in space around their molecular bonds so the hair is straight; it should not be damaging or weakening the bonds and if it is, YOU are doing something wrong, not the flat iron.  Also, ceramic/tourmaline/ionic heat dissipates very quickly, regular heat does not.


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## gymfreak336 (Jan 27, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Pretty [email protected] bolded.  No one should EVER be using oil to flat iron their hair.  The reason why heat gets such a bad rap is because so many people don't use it correctly.  With all the new technology and science for flat irons today, people should just NOT be getting heat damage.  But even if you have the most advanced technology in the world, if you misuse heat then your hair will get damaged in some way.  One way to misuse it is by using oils.  Another way is to use the wrong source of heat.  I don't care how well someone's $19.99 Gold N Hot flat iron straightens their hair, not all heat is the same.  Ceramic emits constant, even far infrared heat that is supposed to help lock in moisture (far infrared heat produces water molecule resonance and in turn resonance of atoms) and also eliminates bacteria/detoxifies the hair.  These are the same types of infrared ions that can be used in cancer patients on a daily basis to kill cancer cells (while not damaging healthy ones even with all the exposure).  If they can be used safely on cells that are much more sensitive (like tissues inside the body pelted by nerves), then they should NOT be damaging your hair (tissues that are already dead and therefore a lot less sensitive).  Infrared heat is a type of radiant heat that heats through conversion (and changing the conformation of the atoms around the bonds without touching the air in between).  Come on, scientists know what they are doing.  It's not their fault that the rest of the world doesn't.
> 
> The bonds in oils break very very easily.  The purpose of heat protectants is to have compounds that are strong enough to withstand heat without the bonds in them breaking, and thus, prevent all the heat from getting directly on the strand.  If you are using an oil, then it cannot protect your hair strands because the heat is going to burst through them and get straight to your hair.  Oil also pops and "fries" when it comes into contact with a heat source.  So essentially, it's not really just the heat of the flat iron, it's the heat of the flat iorn PLUS the hot oil that you just created on your strands.  We all know what happens when we get accidentally popped by hot oil.  Your hair may be looking real glossy and "fly," but it's probably ready to slap you in the face for burning it.  Even though the purpose of new infrared technology is to basically eliminate possibility of heat damage on its own, you can add one or more factors that cancel this out (by using oil or a temperature way too high for instance or going over a section 25 times).
> 
> ...



I was waiting for you to get in here. Where we you when I was frying my hair in 9th grade. Did you check out joico yet?


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## SVT (Jan 27, 2007)

Are we referring to "grease" when saying oil? Is coconut oil in this bad category?


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## navsegda (Jan 27, 2007)

gymfreak336 said:
			
		

> I was waiting for you to get in here. Where we you when I was frying my hair in 9th grade. Did you check out joico yet?



You mean the silk line?  No, I haven't had a chance to check it out yet but it's on my list of things to do/buy in the very near future.


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## gymfreak336 (Jan 27, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> You mean the silk line?  No, I haven't had a chance to check it out yet but it's on my list of things to do/buy in the very near future.



I plan on getting it after I get rid of some of my current stuff.


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## navsegda (Jan 27, 2007)

SVT said:
			
		

> Are we referring to "grease" when saying oil? Is coconut oil in this bad category?



Yes.  All oil or grease is bad for flat ironing the hair.  Oil is healthy on its own (like coconut, amla, jojoba, etc.) but it all behaves the same way when it comes into contact with heat.


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## brownsugarflyygirl (Jan 28, 2007)

Thanks Navs! Thats the exact breakdown I was looking for  

I can always understand the science but sometime its hard for me to remember and repeat it.  Thanks for the refresher.


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## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 28, 2007)

Thanks for schooling us. I was so used to using oil when I flat ironed my hair that I had no idea that it could cause heat damage. So I assume we should stick with serum & heat protectant?


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## navsegda (Jan 28, 2007)

sunshinebeautiful said:
			
		

> Thanks for schooling us. I was so used to using oil when I flat ironed my hair that I had no idea that it could cause heat damage. So I assume we should stick with serum & heat protectant?



Yeah.  Most serums are heat protectants too, so if you have a good serum, you don't need to go out and buy an extra heat protectant.  But I have tons of both serums and additional heat protectants (like Nexxus Heat Protexx) so I won't run out, lol.


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## sunshinebeautiful (Jan 28, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Yeah.  Most serums are heat protectants too, so if you have a good serum, you don't need to go out and buy an extra heat protectant.  But I have tons of both serums and additional heat protectants (like Nexxus Heat Protexx) so I won't run out, lol.



Thanks!


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## CinnaMocha (Jan 28, 2007)

Than my poor hair suffered back in the day when I pressed it with all that oil/grease during my college days...shame, shame, shame...


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## Mortons (Jan 28, 2007)

I'm ashamed of myself now, back in high school when I was getting my hair pressed I thought that sizzle was good. I used to think "Yeah girl, its getting good and straight!"  

I have never been able to touch my hair right after flat ironing it even with my ceramic iron....well, maybe because I was going over it more than once.....I've been bamboozled!!!!!!!!


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## Covergirl5906 (Jan 28, 2007)

gymfreak336 said:
			
		

> I was waiting for you to get in here. *Where we you when I was frying my hair in 9th grade*. Did you check out joico yet?


 

oh my goodness I was thinking the same thing...when I think of what I used to do to my hair back in the days


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## Aidenberry03 (Jan 28, 2007)

can some one give me an example of a serum vs heat protectant. Don't most serums have mineral oil in them?


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## navsegda (Jan 28, 2007)

loreal99 said:
			
		

> can some one give me an example of a serum vs heat protectant. Don't most serums have mineral oil in them?


CHI Silk Infusion is a serum and also a heat protectant.  It does not have mineral oil in it (or any other oil for that matter).  Nexxus Heat Protexx is a heat protectant, but it is not a serum (it's a spray; serums are usually of a semi-thick liquid consistency).

In fact, I have yet to use a serum that has mineral oil (doesn't mean there aren't any, just I haven't used any or seen any).  However, even if you do have a serum that has mineral oil in it, there's a difference between something included in a very small amount that is mixed in microscopically with several other ingredients so it really can't have a negative impact and something that is nothing but straight oil.  What serum are you referring to that has mineral oil?  Good serums and heat protectants have some type of silicone ingredients (dimethicone, dimethiconol, cyclomethicone, etc.) at the top of the list.  If you are using something with mineral oil or random other things at the top, then you aren't using a good serum or heat protectant.


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## Aidenberry03 (Jan 28, 2007)

umm, i dont know any in particular, but when I have gone to the store to look I would always put them back down b/c mineral oil was high on the list. Well what about garnier leave in serum (sleek and shine)--clear gel like one---- would that be considered just a leave in or serum ie heat protectant. See now I am confused all over again. DAMN


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## navsegda (Jan 28, 2007)

loreal99 said:
			
		

> umm, i dont know any in particular, but when I have gone to the store to look I would always put them back down b/c mineral oil was high on the list. Well what about garnier leave in serum (sleek and shine)--clear gel like one---- would that be considered just a leave in or serum ie heat protectant. See now I am confused all over again. DAMN


It's both a serum and a heat protectant.  Most serums are heat protectants but not all heat protectants are serums.  The fruit oils (apricot kernel and avocado) in the Garnier are microscopic and aren't high up on the list, so it's pretty good to use.  What matters is that dimethiconol is the second ingredient.  However, this isn't as good as the CHI so do not be deceived hahaha.


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## EMJazzy (Jan 28, 2007)

I was one of those folks who thought that the *sizzle* was a good thing....my hair definitely thanks me for joining LHCF!!!


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## Lynnerie (Jan 28, 2007)

OMG- So that Ultra Satin Creme Press is bad too?  Thats what i use sometimes but I do love the Chi Silk Therapy. Thanks for that product recommendation Navs.  And your hair is beautiful, what is your regimen?


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## navsegda (Jan 28, 2007)

cluelessaka said:
			
		

> OMG- So that Ultra Satin Creme Press is bad too?  Thats what i use sometimes but I do love the Chi Silk Therapy. Thanks for that product recommendation Navs.  And your hair is beautiful, what is your regimen?


What does the Ultra Satin Creme Press have in it?

Thanks.    I CWC (condition-wash-condition) followed by deep conditioning on Mondays and then pre-poo with Dabur Vatika oil, shampoo, and deep condition again on Thursdays.  I am a huge fan of the Garnier Length & Strength line (shampoo, conditioner, and anti-split ends treatment) as well as the CHI Line (Infra Moisture Therapy Shampoo, Infra Thermal Protective Treatment, and CHI Silk Infusion).  I used to oil my scalp every other day with either Vatika or Amla Lite oil but have since become lazy.  Right now there is nothing on my scalp.  I do however massage my scalp everyday.  I also normally moisturize and comb my hair each day just because lol.


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## destiny616 (Jan 28, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> What does the Ultra Satin Creme Press have in it?
> 
> Thanks.  I CWC (condition-wash-condition) followed by deep conditioning on Mondays and then pre-poo with Dabur Vatika oil, shampoo, and deep condition again on Thursdays. I am a huge fan of the Garnier Length & Strength line (shampoo, conditioner, and anti-split ends treatment) as well as the CHI Line (Infra Moisture Therapy Shampoo, Infra Thermal Protective Treatment, and CHI Silk Infusion). I used to oil my scalp every other day with either Vatika or Amla Lite oil but have since become lazy. Right now there is nothing on my scalp. I do however massage my scalp everyday. I also normally moisturize and comb my hair each day just because lol.


 
how often do you use heat?


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## navsegda (Jan 28, 2007)

destiny616 said:
			
		

> how often do you use heat?



Each time after I wash, so that would be bi-weekly.


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## SerenavanderWoodsen (Jan 28, 2007)

Thank you Navsegda,, very interesting and informative!! Im saving ur post


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## Sweetyb (Jan 28, 2007)

Navsegda, wish I were this informed years ago when I was burning my hair and getting my hair burned by others .  I had my hair hot combed for the first time in years (professionally) yesterday and I must say I thought the stylist was wierd for not using any oil or cream in my hair before flat ironing.  But then again, she did go over my hair multiple times with a hot comb then flat iron ... so I guess the good balances out the bad?? (don't answer that )


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## texasqt (Jan 29, 2007)

Does this include "pressing oils"?


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## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

texasqt said:
			
		

> Does this include "pressing oils"?



You mean like Apex?  (I think that's what it was called).  Yes, it does.  It's like putting Crisco on your hair and then flat ironing.


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## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

Sweetyb said:
			
		

> Navsegda, wish I were this informed years ago when I was burning my hair and getting my hair burned by others .  I had my hair hot combed for the first time in years (professionally) yesterday and I must say I thought the stylist was wierd for not using any oil or cream in my hair before flat ironing.  But then again, she did go over my hair multiple times with a hot comb then flat iron ... so I guess the good balances out the bad?? (don't answer that )



She went over your hair multiple times with a hot comb and THEN a flat iron?  She needs to be slapped.  Seriously.

So she didn't use any type of heat protectant before putting that heat on your hair?  Especially a hot comb?  LMFAO, where is the good here?


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## texasqt (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> You mean like Apex?  (I think that's what it was called).  Yes, it does.  It's like putting Crisco on your hair and then flat ironing.




I don't know what Apex is.  I usually use a pressing oil which claims to have some heat protection.  In the past, some have sizzled but the Dudley's Creme Press I used last - I don't recall.  I would post the ingredients but I'm too sleepy to go get the jar.  I'll post it tomorrow.


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## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

texasqt said:
			
		

> I don't know what Apex is.  I usually use a pressing oil which claims to have some heat protection.  In the past, some have sizzled but the Dudley's Creme Press I used last - I don't recall.  I would post the ingredients but I'm too sleepy to go get the jar.  I'll post it tomorrow.



Apex is the old-fashioned pressing oil used wayyyy back in the day.


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## Amylee (Jan 29, 2007)

Thanks for sharing your kowledge Nav  

Now I know better, no more dumb mistakes when flat ironing my hair.


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## lexi08 (Jan 29, 2007)

I was also wondering about products like Dudley's Creme Press, Ultra sheen creme press, and Keracare Creme press.  I thought these products were okay for flatironing?  I have Chi Silk Infusion, but I do prefer to use a creme press when flatironing my hair.


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## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

nikki1971 said:
			
		

> I was also wondering about products like Dudley's Creme Press, Ultra sheen creme press, and Keracare Creme press.  I thought these products were okay for flatironing?  I have Chi Silk Infusion, but I do prefer to use a creme press when flatironing my hair.



What are the ingredients in them?  Cremes are not the same as pressing oils (unless of course these cremes are oil-based/mostly oil).  Cremes that aren't oil-based and those that do have major silicones as one or more of the first few ingredients would be good.

Edit:  I have just checked out the Dudley's on a website.  I thought it was actually _only_ a creme but on the container it says "Dudley's Creme Press Pressing Oil."  Yup, I wouldn't use it.


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## AKA-Tude (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> . Ceramic emits constant, *even far infrared heat that is supposed to help lock in moisture (far infrared heat produces water molecule resonance and in turn resonance of atoms) and also eliminates bacteria/detoxifies the hair.* These are the same types of infrared ions that can be used in cancer patients on a daily basis to kill cancer cells (while not damaging healthy ones even with all the exposure). If they can be used safely on cells that are much more sensitive (like tissues inside the body pelted by nerves), then they should NOT be damaging your hair (tissues that are already dead and therefore a lot less sensitive). Infrared heat is a type of radiant heat that heats through conversion (and changing the conformation of the atoms around the bonds without touching the air in between). Come on, scientists know what they are doing. It's not their fault that the rest of the world doesn't.


 
Navs, I would follow you anywhere! The knowledge is ..WOW!!

But here's a dumb question-
is there a specific type of flat iron that emmits this 'far infrared heat" that is superior to others (this is assuming that I read this correctly & far infrared heat is better for the hair)?

Right now I use a Solano.

TIA


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## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

AKA-Tude said:
			
		

> Navs, I would follow you anywhere! The knowledge is ..WOW!!
> 
> But here's a dumb question-
> is there a specific type of flat iron that emmits this 'far infrared heat" that is superior to others (this is assuming that I read this correctly & far infrared heat is better for the hair)?
> ...



No, there isn't a specific type of ceramic flat iron that does this but regular, conventional flat irons and hot combs do not have the ability to do this.  Ceramic and tourmaline on their own should do this.  If you have one of these (which you do with the Solano ) by itself or either a combination of both, then you're good.


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## AKA-Tude (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> No, there isn't a specific type of ceramic flat iron that does this but regular, conventional flat irons and hot combs do not have the ability to do this. Ceramic and tourmaline on their own should do this. If you have one of these (which you do with the Solano ) by itself or either a combination of both, then you're good.


 

ok- thanx!!!!!!!  good to know!!


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## Priss Pot (Jan 29, 2007)

Thanks, Navsegda for this information!  I wish that all stylists knew this!


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## lexi08 (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> What are the ingredients in them?  Cremes are not the same as pressing oils (unless of course these cremes are oil-based/mostly oil).  Cremes that aren't oil-based and those that do have major silicones as one or more of the first few ingredients would be good.
> 
> Edit:  I have just checked out the Dudley's on a website.  I thought it was actually _only_ a creme but on the container it says "Dudley's Creme Press Pressing Oil."  Yup, I wouldn't use it.




I don't have the jars with me, but I don't think Ultra Sheen has any oil in it.  I think its mostly wax based.  I'm not sure about the silicone though.  When I use serums my hair seems a little dry that is why I prefer creme press.  I do use a Solia ceramic flatiron when I do flatiron my hair.  Now I confused as to what is best for my hair


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## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

nikki1971 said:
			
		

> I don't have the jars with me, but I don't think Ultra Sheen has any oil in it.  I think its mostly wax based.  I'm not sure about the silicone though.  When I use serums my hair seems a little dry that is why I prefer creme press.  I do use a Solia ceramic flatiron when I do flatiron my hair.  Now I confused as to what is best for my hair



Ok, I found a few websites that sell this product.  Why is it so hard for websites to include the ingredients along with the product?  Ugh, annoying. I even checked out the Johnson's website and they're like "for questions or comments email us." Anyway, on the texasbeautysupply.com site the description it gives for the Ultra Sheen Creme Satin says that it "contains natural animal and vegetable oils" and other places list it as "pressing oil."  Vegetable oil?  Think of Mazola.

I'm interested in knowing what cremes (that are not oil-based/oil-heavy) others here use to flat iron.  Does Redken make a creme for this purpose?


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## lexi08 (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Ok, I found a few websites that sell this product.  Why is it so hard for websites to include the ingredients along with the product?  Ugh, annoying. I even checked out the Johnson's website and they're like "for questions or comments email us." Anyway, on the texasbeautysupply.com site the description it gives for the Ultra Sheen Creme Satin says that it "contains natural animal and vegetable oils" and other places list it as "pressing oil."  Vegetable oil?  Think of Mazola.
> 
> I'm interested in knowing what cremes (that are not oil-based/oil-heavy) others here use to flat iron.  Does Redken make a creme for this purpose?




Thanks for the info.  I am not sure about a creme but I know Redken Heat Glide is a good serum that I have used for a heat protectant.


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## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

Hmm...I quickly looked up something for those who may like creme heat protectants better than serums (like the Silk Infusion).

Does anyone use the Frederic Fekkai Glossing Cream?  It looks pretty good.

Here are the ingredients:

Water (Aqua), *Dimethicone*, Cyclopentasiloxane, *Dimethiconol*, Propylene Glycol, Polyacrylamide, Olea Europaea (Olive Oil) Fruit Oil, Phenyl Trimethicone, C13-14 Isoparaffin, PEG-8 Methicone, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Seed Oil, Bismuth Oxychloride (CI 77163), Laureth 7, Sodium PCA, Panthenol, Cinnamidopropyltrimethyl Ammonium Chloride, Dimethicone PEG-8, Meadowfoamate, Fragrance (Parfum), Methylisochloroisothiazolinone, Yellow 5 (CI 19140)

The dimethicone and the dimethiconol in this would make it a superb heat protectant (as would the other silicones).  The first oil is microscopic and isn't listed until the 7th ingredient, so it's fine.  The second oil is the 11th ingredient.  Both of these amounts of oils would be too small in comparison to all the other ingredients they are blended in with to cause damage to your hair.

Now even though the Silk Infusion does not contain any oils, I do not want people thinking that they must have it or their hair will fry because of this.  A product can contain very small amounts of microscopic oils and be safe to use while flat ironing the hair.  However, if you have a product that is straight oil or mostly oil (what I mean when I say oil-based), then I would discard it.


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## lexi08 (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Hmm...I quickly looked up something for those who may like creme heat protectants better than serums (like the Silk Infusion).
> 
> Does anyone use the Frederic Fekkai Glossing Cream?  It looks pretty good.
> 
> ...




I have this product but I do not use it when flatironing because it has water in it.  I use the FF as a finishing product.  When heat touches hair that has been coated with a product that has water in it, won't it sizzle?


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## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

nikki1971 said:
			
		

> I have this product but I do not use it when flatironing because it has water in it.  I use the FF as a finishing product.  When heat touches hair that has been coated with a product that has water in it, won't it sizzle?


In many products, the first ingredient is water.  This is not a bad thing at all because water is not the only ingredient; it is mixed in very well with numerous others.  For instance, in Nexxus Heat Protexx the first ingredient is water and even when I've used it alone in the past to flat iron, my hair did not sizzle at all.  Sizzling occurs from the amount of heat/temperature on the hair, not from the contents of the products by themselves.  The beauty of proper flat ironing is that you can have moisturized, sleek hair using a variety of products without it sizzling, smoking, or burning.


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## Cayenne0622 (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> In many products, the first ingredient is water. This is not a bad thing at all because water is not the only ingredient; it is mixed in very well with numerous others. For instance, in Nexxus Heat Protexx the first ingredient is water and even when I've used it alone in the past to flat iron, my hair did not sizzle at all. Sizzling occurs from the amount of heat/temperature on the hair, not from the contents of the products by themselves. The beauty of proper flat ironing is that you can have moisturized, sleek hair using a variety of products without it sizzling, smoking, or burning.


 
I was gonna question the same thing because some heat protectants are very liquidy and when I've used them they've made my hair kind of damp and when I put the flat iron on it, it was not a good thing.  Unfortunately, the only flat iron I have is my CHI which does not have a temperature control.  You just turn it on and off.  I got scared of the spray on heat protectants because they are so wet so I started using a serum when I flat iron but then I read that "cones" coat the hair and prevent moisture from getting in.  Also, my hair is kind of fine so I don't like to flat iron because it makes it very flat.  I get better "looking" results if I use a curling iron.  Is this a bad thing?


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## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

Cayenne0622 said:
			
		

> I was gonna question the same thing because some heat protectants or very liquidy and when I've used them they've made my hair kind of damp and when I put the flat iron on it, it was not a good thing.  Unfortunately, the only flat iron I have is my CHI which does not have a temperature control.  You just turn it on and off.  I was using a serum when I flat iron but then I read that "cones" coat the hair and prevent moisture from getting in.  Also, my hair is kind of fine so I don't like to flat iron because it makes it very flat.  I get better "looking" results if I use a curling iron.  Is this a bad thing?


Silicones can coat the hair to offer protection from heat and they also help seal in moisture that is already there, so your hair remains moisturized (if for instance your serum/heat protectant doesn't contain water as an ingredient).  Also certain molecules will not penetrate the cuticle layer and certain others will.  Just because there is an ingredient in a product that coats the hair (there are other ingredients besides silicones that can do this if they do not have a low enough molecular weight to penetrate the cuticle) doesn't mean that moisture cannot get through.  Water in fact penetrates the hair shaft very easily and quickly because these particles are small enough and can make it through before the silicones seal.  The coating effect of a silicone doesn't last forever, just like if you use an oil to seal in moisture; it eventually "disintegrates" or wears off after a period of time.

Using a curling iron instead of a flat iron doesn't have to be a bad thing.  What type of curling iron do you use?  Is it conventional or ceramic or tourmaline?


----------



## Cayenne0622 (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Silicones can coat the hair to offer protection from heat and they also help seal in moisture that is already there, so your hair remains moisturized (if for instance your serum/heat protectant doesn't contain water as an ingredient). Also certain molecules will not penetrate the cuticle layer and certain others will. Just because there is an ingredient in a product that coats the hair (there are other ingredients besides silicones that can do this if they do not have a low enough molecular weight to penetrate the cuticle) doesn't mean that moisture cannot get through. Water in fact penetrates the hair shaft very easily and quickly because these particles are small enough and can make it through before the silicones seal. The coating effect of a silicone doesn't last forever, just like if you use an oil to seal in moisture; it eventually "disintegrates" or wears off after a period of time.
> 
> Using a curling iron instead of a flat iron doesn't have to be a bad thing. What type of curling iron do you use? Is it conventional or ceramic or tourmaline?


 
Its conventional.  It has a temperature setting though so I like that.  My hair is above my shoulders so I like that the curling iron gives my hair fullness and body.  My CHI just makes my hair flat.  That would be okay if it was past my shoulders but flat short hair isn't cute to me.  I may have to invest in a ceramic curling iron.  Any suggestions?


----------



## lexi08 (Jan 29, 2007)

Cayenne0622 said:
			
		

> Its conventional.  It has a temperature setting though so I like that.  My hair is above my shoulders so I like that the curling iron gives my hair fullness and body.  My CHI just makes my hair flat.  That would be okay if it was past my shoulders but flat short hair isn't cute to me.  I may have to invest in a ceramic curling iron.  Any suggestions?




CHI, FHI, T3 all make Ceramic curling irons.  I am going to invest in one soon myself.


----------



## getmoore (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> No, there isn't a specific type of ceramic flat iron that does this but regular, conventional flat irons and hot combs do not have the ability to do this. Ceramic and tourmaline on their own should do this. If you have one of these (which you do with the Solano ) by itself or either a combination of both, then you're good.


Would the maxiglide qualify? I can't remember if it's ceramic or not? BTW, this is great info! Thanks.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 29, 2007)

nikki1971 said:
			
		

> CHI, FHI, T3 all make Ceramic curling irons.  I am going to invest in one soon myself.




me too. I really want that T3 curved flat iron


----------



## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

getmoore said:
			
		

> Would the maxiglide qualify? I can't remember if it's ceramic or not? BTW, this is great info! Thanks.



Is the maxiglide full ceramic or just ceramic coated?  Even if it's just ceramic coated, I believe that it could still emit a fair enough amount of far-infrared heat.


----------



## Cayenne0622 (Jan 29, 2007)

Thanks ladies.  I will check those out...not maxiglide though. lol


----------



## JazzyDez (Jan 29, 2007)

nikki1971 said:
			
		

> I was also wondering about products like Dudley's Creme Press, Ultra sheen creme press, and Keracare Creme press. I thought these products were okay for flatironing? I have Chi Silk Infusion, but I do prefer to use a creme press when flatironing my hair.


 
When I read shamboosie's hair book I ran out and bought Dudley's Creme press thinking it would protect my hair from heat damage. I am pretty sure that the product has mineral oil in it, and pretty high on the list. The CP is in the back of my PJ stash right now though. What navs is saying makes complete sense to me. There is just so much misinformation out there. What makes maintaining our hair even more difficult is all of the confusion that arises when so called "professionals" have different theories and tell you complete opposite things to do. BTW, I no longer rely on shamboosie's "expertise" Just what I have learned here and what has worked for my hair.


----------



## rissybaby (Jan 29, 2007)

Okay now im confused...
when i got my hair done about a week ago, after washing my stylist put oil on me and then i went under the dryer. After that she blow dried me and flat ironed my hair. It turned out great and was so soft and smooth. It turned out so great that i just went to the store and purchsed some olive oil to attempt to do the same as she did. Was this okay because i was under the dryer first? Because i didnt hear any sizzling or popping when she was flat ironing my hair. 
Man...haha..good thing i read this thread before i burned my hair to a crisp.. 
Can i still go along with doing this or what?


----------



## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

sistasgotgame said:
			
		

> Okay now im confused...
> when i got my hair done about a week ago, after washing my stylist put oil on me and then i went under the dryer. After that she blow dried me and flat ironed my hair. It turned out great and was so soft and smooth. It turned out so great that i just went to the store and purchsed some olive oil to attempt to do the same as she did. Was this okay because i was under the dryer first? Because i didnt hear any sizzling or popping when she was flat ironing my hair.
> Man...haha..good thing i read this thread before i burned my hair to a crisp..
> Can i still go along with doing this or what?


If you were under the dryer first with the heat on your hair and the combination of the oil, I think that just heightens the risk because the heat from the dryer has a chance to heat the oil on your hair and then heat from the flat iron has a chance to compound the risk.  She basically just doubled the risk of heat damage because all that heat was able to break right throught that oil and go straight for your strands.  So you had to worry about the heat from the dryer, the heat from the flat iron, AND the heat from the hot oil.  Hopefully she didn't damage your hair but that was not an adequate method of heat protection.  

I would change it.  I don't put any oil on my hair until AFTER it has been flat ironed.


----------



## rissybaby (Jan 29, 2007)

Hey thanks for replying so thouroughly!!! Okay i guess i wont be attempting this method. I wish i knew what oil she used, because maybe that made a difference but i doubt it...it just turned out so well...also, ive heard about people putting EVOO in their deep conditioners...is that bad too?


----------



## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

sistasgotgame said:
			
		

> Hey thanks for replying so thouroughly!!! Okay i guess i wont be attempting this method. I wish i knew what oil she used, because maybe that made a difference but i doubt it...it just turned out so well...also, ive heard about people putting EVOO in their deep conditioners...is that bad too?



No, putting EVOO or another oil in your deep conditioners isn't bad because it's being mixed in with all those other ingredients and you aren't making the oil in it the majority.  So if you wanted to do this and then deep condition with heat it shouldn't be a problem (unless like I said, you've used too much oil).  It's straight oil or products that contain mostly oil that are bad when using heat.


----------



## scorpian (Jan 29, 2007)

texasqt said:
			
		

> I don't know what Apex is.  I usually use a pressing oil which claims to have some heat protection.  In the past, some have sizzled but the Dudley's Creme Press I used last - I don't recall.  I would post the ingredients but I'm too sleepy to go get the jar.  I'll post it tomorrow.



Apex ingredients are petroleum,lanolin,and fragrance.


----------



## texasqt (Jan 29, 2007)

24 went to commercial so I was able to grab the Dudley's Creme Press Pressing Oil and this doesn't look like anything good   I used it this morning and my hair didn't sizzle but...

Ingredients: Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Petrolatum, Parrafin, Mineral Oil, Hydrogenated Cottonseed Oil, Lanolin, Fragrance, Propylene Glycol (and) BHA (and) Glyceryl Monooleate (and) Propyl Gallate (and), Citric Acid, D&C Red No. 17, D&C Yellow No.11

This was highly recommended by a hairdresser who owns her own BSS and it was expensive!!!

Say it isn't so please!


----------



## texasqt (Jan 29, 2007)

On a side note... I know we are talking about oils but isn't sulfur and heat a HUGE NO NO???


----------



## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

texasqt said:
			
		

> 24 went to commercial so I was able to grab the Dudley's Creme Press Pressing Oil and this doesn't look like anything good   I used it this morning and my hair didn't sizzle but...
> 
> Ingredients: Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Petrolatum, Parrafin, Mineral Oil, Hydrogenated Cottonseed Oil, Lanolin, Fragrance, Propylene Glycol (and) BHA (and) Glyceryl Monooleate (and) Propyl Gallate (and), Citric Acid, D&C Red No. 17, D&C Yellow No.11
> 
> ...



[email protected]  That's how I am about Law & Order SVU.  Unless a commercial is on, I will not be interrupted.

*shudders at the ingredients*  They are truly frightening.  That's way too high a content of oil (the majority of the Dudley's is oil) to be healthy for flat ironing.  I would tell that hairdresser to get a new product.  She could really end up damaging someone's hair and the effects may not come about until later and then her clients may have no clue what was causing the damage or the breakage.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

texasqt said:
			
		

> On a side note... I know we are talking about oils but isn't sulfur and heat a HUGE NO NO???



Sulfur can be combustible, particularly if used in high amounts or by itself.  In much much smaller amounts it shouldn't cause any damage (like if you have MTG on your scalp you shouldn't be worried about passing by a furnace and having your hair erupt into flames hahaha).  What product contains sulfur that is supposed to be a heat protectant?


----------



## texasqt (Jan 29, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Sulfur can be combustible, particularly if used in high amounts or by itself.  In much much smaller amounts it shouldn't cause any damage (like if you have MTG on your scalp you shouldn't be worried about passing by a furnace and having your hair erupt into flames hahaha).  What product contains sulfur that is supposed to be a heat protectant?




This dadGammit WonderGro Heat Stylin Press N Curl Straightening Oil!!! I don't know why I never noticed the sulfur before, plus its full of oils!!!  That was one thing I was told never to do - sulfur and flat/curling irons don't mix.

www.wonder-gro.com - a really nice website (but no ingredients listed)

Ingredients: Petrolatum, Soybean Oil, Canola Oil, Caster Oil, Lanolin Oil, Dimethicone, Protein, Lecithin, Tea Trea Oil, Aloe Vera Oil, Sulfur, Wintergreen Oil, Beeswax, Extracts of Horesetail, Nettles, Coltsfoot, Rosemary, Comfrey, Burdock, Chamomile, Witch Hazel, BHT, fragrance.


----------



## LovelyLionessa (Jan 29, 2007)

I am loving this thread, very informative.  I got some Chi Infusion this weekend and used it when I flat ironed my roots, that stuff is really nice.


----------



## texasqt (Jan 29, 2007)

This is the last one in my stash. If this one gets the X, I'm going shopping cuz these are going in the trash. 

911 Heat Protector Cream contains
*Poly-V 10:* [Water, Polyquaternium 10, Pyridoxine HCL (Vitamin B-6),  Thiamin Nitrate (Vitamin B-1), Retinyl Palmitate (Vitamin A), Tocophyrel Acetate (Vitamin E), Asorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Biotin (Vitamin H), Linoleic Acid (Vitamin F)] *Sorbitan Stearate, Oil Complex:* (petrolatum, jojoba oil, castor oil, sweet almond oil, safflower oil), *Polysorbate 60, Tea-Carbomer, Herbal Extracts:* (Indian Hemp, Rosemary, Nettle, Sage, Birch, Burdock, Chaparral, Sunflower Extracts), *Isopropyl Palmitate, Cetyl Alcohol, Dimethicone Copolyol, Isoeicosane, Phenyl Trimethicone, Brassica Campestris Aleurites Fordi Oil Copolymer, Propylene Glycol, Fragrance, DMDM Hydantoin, Diazolidinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben.*

Keeping my fingers crossed...


----------



## navsegda (Jan 29, 2007)

texasqt said:
			
		

> This is the last one in my stash. If this one gets the X, I'm going shopping cuz these are going in the trash.
> 
> 911 Heat Protector Cream contains
> *Poly-V 10:* [Water, Polyquaternium 10, Pyridoxine HCL (Vitamin B-6),  Thiamin Nitrate (Vitamin B-1), Retinyl Palmitate (Vitamin A), Tocophyrel Acetate (Vitamin E), Asorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Biotin (Vitamin H), Linoleic Acid (Vitamin F)] *Sorbitan Stearate, Oil Complex:* (petrolatum, jojoba oil, castor oil, sweet almond oil, safflower oil), *Polysorbate 60, Tea-Carbomer, Herbal Extracts:* (Indian Hemp, Rosemary, Nettle, Sage, Birch, Burdock, Chaparral, Sunflower Extracts), *Isopropyl Palmitate, Cetyl Alcohol, Dimethicone Copolyol, Isoeicosane, Phenyl Trimethicone, Brassica Campestris Aleurites Fordi Oil Copolymer, Propylene Glycol, Fragrance, DMDM Hydantoin, Diazolidinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben.*
> ...



I think that's the best one out of all of them.  I still don't get why there are 6 oils in it lol but at least they are far down on the list and there are a lot of other ingredients that they can be blended in very well with.  I also don't get why silicones aren't major ingredients (near the top of the list) either if this is supposed to be a good heat protectant.

So...I'm gonna say keep it.  I don't want you to have to go out and completely buy another heat protectant if one of them looks ok.


----------



## lovegan (Jan 29, 2007)

has anyone heard of "that's it!" hair emolient? it give the hair wonderful texture during flat ironing, but i'm afraid it might have petroleum in it..... not sure. my hair dresser uses it


----------



## texasqt (Jan 30, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I think that's the best one out of all of them.  I still don't get why there are 6 oils in it lol but at least they are far down on the list and there are a lot of other ingredients that they can be blended in very well with.  I also don't get why silicones aren't major ingredients (near the top of the list) either if this is supposed to be a good heat protectant.
> 
> So...I'm gonna say keep it.  I don't want you to have to go out and completely buy another heat protectant if one of them looks ok.




Awe Man!!! I was getting excited!  PJ thought PJ and I could go to the BSS tomorrow .  I guess we have to stick to my Just Use It Up Challenge and just use it up.  Thanks Navsegda for sharing the knowledge!!!


----------



## jenteel (Jan 30, 2007)

so happy u posted this info!!!
navs u r incredible!
i instinctively returned the keracare pressing creme
the 1st ingredient was vegetable oil
i thought it would be better b/c it had less "cones" in it
now i am learning cones are good 4 heat protection
which makes sense because it keeps moisture from getting into the hair
so i guess the more cones the better??

i think i'm gonna try that chi silk infusion....


----------



## angellazette (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks for the info navs!  Yall make me want to go flat iron my hair with all of the new info I have


----------



## honeybadgirl (Jan 30, 2007)

nav, at what temp is considered too high for ceramic irons? my fhi has a setting that goes up to 450  i think.
thanx chica


----------



## Dee_33 (Jan 30, 2007)

What about a product that has the following:  

*Cyclomethicone , Phenyl Trimethicone , Dimethicone , Isododecane , Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract , PPG-3 Benzyl Ether Myristate , Amodimethicone , Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate Sunscreen , Tocopheryl Acetate Vitamin E , Fragrance Parfum *


Does Sally's carry the Chi Silk Inf.?


----------



## navsegda (Jan 30, 2007)

luving me said:
			
		

> What about a product that has the following:
> 
> *Cyclomethicone , Phenyl Trimethicone , Dimethicone , Isododecane , Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract , PPG-3 Benzyl Ether Myristate , Amodimethicone , Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate Sunscreen , Tocopheryl Acetate Vitamin E , Fragrance Parfum *
> 
> ...



That sounds beautiful.  Look at all those silicones!  *drools*  Phenomenal heat protectant, I'd say.  What's it called?

I don't know if Sally's carries Silk Infusion.


----------



## navsegda (Jan 30, 2007)

honeybadgirl said:
			
		

> nav, at what temp is considered too high for ceramic irons? my fhi has a setting that goes up to 450  i think.
> thanx chica


My Solia goes up to 450.  I wouldn't dare put a temp that high on my hair.  The original CHI maybe had a temperature of 425 and I think that's too high, but some other ladies on the forum told me that temperature was perfect for their hair.  *shrugs*  I don't know of any flat irons that go above 450 or maybe 475.

As for what temp is too high?  I think it depends on the person and her hair.  I think it would be good if everyone tested out the absolute lowest temp possible to flat iron their hair using a good serum or heat protectant and get it straight.  To get the straightness one desires, that temp may be 320, 300, or even less if you use a good serum.  Many may be surprised that they don't need as high a temp as they originally thought they did.


----------



## Dee_33 (Jan 30, 2007)

It's:  *Fantasia High Potency IC Hair Polisher Heat Protector Straightening Spray *


Saw it online for Walgreens I hope they have it in the store.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 30, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> My Solia goes up to 450.  I wouldn't dare put a temp that high on my hair.  The original CHI maybe had a temperature of 425 and I think that's too high, but some other ladies on the forum told me that temperature was perfect for their hair.  *shrugs*  I don't know of any flat irons that go above 450 or maybe 475.
> 
> As for what temp is too high?  I think it depends on the person and her hair.  I think it would be good if everyone tested out the absolute lowest temp possible to flat iron their hair using a good serum or heat protectant and get it straight.  To get the straightness one desires, that temp may be 320, 300, or even less if you use a good serum.  *Many may be surprised that they don't need as high a temp as they originally thought they did.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Soooo true. I recently flat ironed a couple of pieces of hair to try out my chi silk infusion and I did it on the lowest heat possible on my flat iron. With a good heat protectant and a quality ceramic or tourmaline iron, you really don't need hell high heat.


----------



## honeybadgirl (Jan 30, 2007)

as always thanx!!! i think the last time i used them i set it to about 325 but i'll try a little lower and see what happens. i'm thinking btwn 300 and 325 should do


----------



## pistachio (Jan 30, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> You mean like Apex? (I think that's what it was called). Yes, it does. It's like putting Crisco on your hair and then flat ironing.


 
HA!  And to think that back in the day when I was natural I'd use grease, and then hot comb my hair.  I though the crackle and pop was a _good thing._  How naive was I ?!?!


----------



## pistachio (Jan 30, 2007)

gymfreak336 said:
			
		

> navsegda said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ambergirl (Jan 30, 2007)

Wish I read this thread before I flat-ironed my oily hair a couple of weeks ago. Major breakage....now I have raggedy, raggedy ends....never again!


----------



## Artemis (Feb 4, 2007)

I wish you guys could've been w/me at Sally's on Friday...There was a lady asking the employee what products she should buy for straightening her natural hair. The employee showed her the ceramic/tourmaline flat irons which was fine, but when heat protection came up, the customer said, "I don't want to use a spray b/c I'm natural and I don't want it to frizz." Without getting all technical and in her business, I mentioned to her she should look for a serum (I really wish Sally's sold Chi Silk Infusion, b/c that's what I wanted her to buy  ). And guess what that ignorant employee said..."A serum is ok, but it can be oily/greasy."  Who knows what that girl was a/b to get that woman to buy...After that I just left it alone, shook my head, and paid for my stuff. But I wish I could have at least had a copy of this thread, a pamphlet, or something


----------



## Nella (Feb 4, 2007)

I agree pressing and flat ironing your hair without oil is better for your hair. It allows your hair to be bouncy, full and all you need is a little oil after you have finished styling your hair it will last for a long time and you will notice that your hair has a natural sheen.

Try it and you will not be disappointed to see the difference.


----------



## angellazette (Feb 4, 2007)

What about if you put oil on your hair on day 1, then day 2 you put the Chi Silk Infusion then flat iron.  Is that ok?


----------



## HoneyDew (Feb 4, 2007)

Well, I have to say that ever since I started using Qhemet's Sidr Tree Butter Balm on my wet hair as a leave-in and then applying serum before drying and flat-ironing, I had never really had true longlasting moisture.  This product is a butter, which I understand is like oil, right?  I don't know, but I am not going to stop using it because it does work wonders for me.  Actually after I started using it, I had to lower the heat on my flat-iron.  My hair did not require as much heat to get straight with this product.  Also, I don't have to shampoo/condition as often for moisture like I used to. The moisture from washday last longer than other products I have used as leave-ins.

Here are the ingredients:

Ingredients: Pure Mowrah (Bassia Latifolia) Butter, Distilled Water, Organic Sidr (Zizyphus) Extract, Organic Aloe (Aloe Ferrox) Africana, MSM Sulfur, Vegetable Glycerin, Vegetable Emulsifier, Phenoxyethanol & Ethylhexylglycerin (Food Grade Paraben-free and Formaldehyde-free Preservative), Fragrance. 

I have other products that I use for styling moisture during the week after shampoo days, but this product has worked wonders for my hair.


----------



## Mortons (Feb 4, 2007)

luving me said:
			
		

> It's: *Fantasia High Potency IC Hair Polisher Heat Protector Straightening Spray *
> 
> 
> Saw it online for Walgreens I hope they have it in the store.


 
I have this, I think I'm gonna get the serum next time. Or maybe the CHI serum. I just bought the Matrix sleek look iron guard and its good......see yall turning me into an PJ


----------



## Southernbella. (Feb 4, 2007)

This is a great thread! I'm going to get some new heat protectant ASAP. I use Silk Elements spray (a Sally Brand). It has no oil, but it also doesn't have any cones, which I gather are better for protection.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Navs!​


----------



## navsegda (Feb 4, 2007)

angellazette said:
			
		

> What about if you put oil on your hair on day 1, then day 2 you put the Chi Silk Infusion then flat iron.  Is that ok?



I think it would depend on what oil it is (some oils are heavier than others, for instance, regular Amla oil would remain on the strands longer than Amla Lite).  What oil do you normally use?


----------



## sunshinebeautiful (Feb 4, 2007)

I wish I had seen this thread before I flat ironed my hair a few weeks ago using WGO.  Before the flatironing -- No breakage. After the flat ironing -- Little broken hair pieces galore. I had to do a serious protein treatment and will probably have to trim those ends at some point. But what a difference after omitting oil and just using serum...  No breakage, and shiny, soft, moisturized hair.


----------



## sunshinebeautiful (Feb 4, 2007)

HoneyDew said:
			
		

> Well, I have to say that ever since I started using Qhemet's Sidr Tree Butter Balm on my wet hair as a leave-in and then applying serum before drying and flat-ironing, I had never really had true longlasting moisture.  This product is a butter, which I understand is like oil, right?  I don't know, but I am not going to stop using it because it does work wonders for me.  Actually after I started using it, I had to lower the heat on my flat-iron.  My hair did not require as much heat to get straight with this product.  Also, I don't have to shampoo/condition as often for moisture like I used to. The moisture from washday last longer than other products I have used as leave-ins.
> 
> Here are the ingredients:
> 
> ...



I'm interested in knowing the answer to this question as well. Now that I think about it, awhile back I flatironed my hair after applying a butter as a leave-in and my hair was definitely butter-soft and moisturized. Do butters act like oils? I don't see any oils listed in the ingredients so I'm not sure myself.


----------



## navsegda (Feb 4, 2007)

HoneyDew said:
			
		

> Well, I have to say that ever since I started using Qhemet's Sidr Tree Butter Balm on my wet hair as a leave-in and then applying serum before drying and flat-ironing, I had never really had true longlasting moisture.This product is a butter, which I understand is like oil, right?  I don't know, but I am not going to stop using it because it does work wonders for me.  Actually after I started using it, I had to lower the heat on my flat-iron.  My hair did not require as much heat to get straight with this product.  Also, I don't have to shampoo/condition as often for moisture like I used to. The moisture from washday last longer than other products I have used as leave-ins.
> 
> Here are the ingredients:
> 
> ...



I personally wouldn't use it before flat ironing because typically the ingredients do make it like an oil and it seems better at retaining moisture than anything else.  Far-infrared heat ions from a ceramic flat iron are meant to produce water molecule resonance and hold in moisture, so your hair shouldn't be less moisturized after blow drying and flat-ironing.  I would use a serum or heat protectant spray (like Nexxus Heat Protexx) before flat ironing and then use the Qhemet butter afterwards if you are worried about moisture escaping later.

Also, what serum did you normally use in the past?  I noticed drastic differences in my hair when using the Garnier serum vs. the Silk Infusion for instance.


----------



## Ms Lala (Feb 4, 2007)

Wow this is so interesting!!! So it* is ok for me to apply my leave in* after washing, let my hair air dry, and then apply heat protectant?

 If I let my hair air dry w/o some type of conditioner or moisturizer my hair would be soooooo hard.  Just to think for years I literally fried my hair and then wondered why it wouldn't grow.  Also d*oes anyone know of a ceramic hot comb,* my hair is natural and a pressing comb seems to work better for straightening.


----------



## navsegda (Feb 4, 2007)

Ms Lala said:
			
		

> Wow this is so interesting!!! So it* is ok for me to apply my leave in* after washing, let my hair air dry, and then apply heat protectant?
> 
> If I let my hair air dry w/o some type of conditioner or moisturizer my hair would be soooooo hard.  Just to think for years I literally fried my hair and then wondered why it wouldn't grow.  Also d*oes anyone know of a ceramic hot comb,* my hair is natural and a pressing comb seems to work better for straightening.



Sure, that's totally ok.  I do this all the time (minus the air-drying).

I don't know of any 100% pure ceramic hot combs.  What width plate do you have on a flat iron?  If you are natural, it may help to have a smaller plate (like 3/4" or 1/2" inch to get the roots straight).


----------



## Ms Lala (Feb 4, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Sure, that's totally ok. I do this all the time (minus the air-drying).
> 
> I don't know of any 100% pure ceramic hot combs. *What width plate do you have on a flat iron? If you are natural, it may help to have a smaller plate (like 3/4" or 1/2" inch to get the roots straight).[/*quote]
> 
> Thanks very much!  I feel so informed now.  It is a good idea to get a smaller iron.  The one I have now is a 1 inch and I have difficult time w/the roots.


----------



## Treasure2k6 (Feb 4, 2007)

You are so right about oil! I didn't realize it but I omitted the amounts of oil I'd been using in my regimen and got on a serum & butter tip.  (IC Fantaisia Gloss-Straightener & heat Protectant also Shea Butter) I was so surprised the first time that I just went straight into Flat ironing after I did the applications. My hair was sooo soft but still strong enough to put back into a low bun. No breakage....at all! To top it off, I blow dried it a bit as well. Since then, I have been hooked on butters and glosses.



			
				sunshinebeautiful said:
			
		

> I wish I had seen this thread before I flat ironed my hair a few weeks ago using WGO.  Before the flatironing -- No breakage. After the flat ironing -- Little broken hair pieces galore. I had to do a serious protein treatment and will probably have to trim those ends at some point. But what a difference after omitting oil and just using serum...  No breakage, and shiny, soft, moisturized hair.


----------



## RubyWoo (Feb 4, 2007)

Navs, what do you think about these ingredients? 

*Cyclomethicone, Dimethiconol, Trimethylsiloxyamodimethicone, C11-15 Pareth-7, C12-16 Pareth-9, Trideceth-12, Glycerin, Amodimethicone, Cetrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Amyl Cinnamal, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzyl Salicylate, Citronellol, Geraniol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool, Limonene, Isopropylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Butylparaben*



I was thinking of getting the Paul Mitchell Super skinny serum and was looking to rollerset with heat under a dryer and  _*maybe*_ flat iron afterwards (still on the fence on the last option).  Judging from the first three ingredients it's looking good but I'm not sure about the rest.  Would this be a good protectant? Also, do you think a serum/heat protectant  is necessary when using indirect heat? TIA!


----------



## navsegda (Feb 4, 2007)

Naturellle said:
			
		

> Navs, what do you think about these ingredients?
> 
> *Cyclomethicone, Dimethiconol, Trimethylsiloxyamodimethicone, C11-15 Pareth-7, C12-16 Pareth-9, Trideceth-12, Glycerin, Amodimethicone, Cetrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Amyl Cinnamal, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzyl Salicylate, Citronellol, Geraniol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool, Limonene, Isopropylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Butylparaben*
> 
> ...



Those are really good ingredients.  It has 3 major silicones as the first 3 ingredients, and silicones are phenomenal when it comes to heat protectants.

"Indirect" heat is still heat, so yes, you should be using a heat protectant there as well.


----------



## RubyWoo (Feb 4, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> Those are really good ingredients.  It has 3 major silicones as the first 3 ingredients, and silicones are phenomenal when it comes to heat protectants.
> 
> "Indirect" heat is still heat, so yes, you should be using a heat protectant there as well.



Thank you!!


----------



## Artemis (Feb 4, 2007)

@ Naturelle

That PM Super Skinny is really good! I've used it for my rollersets to seal in moisture and it also helps the ends grab onto the roller, but not in a "sticky" way.  When the hair is dry, it's super soft and smooth.

I agree w/Navs a/b indirect heat being included in whether to use heat protection. Heat is heat, indirect or otherwise, IMO.


----------



## RubyWoo (Feb 4, 2007)

artemis_e. said:
			
		

> @ Naturelle
> 
> That PM Super Skinny is really good! I've used it for my rollersets to seal in moisture and it also helps the ends grab onto the roller, but not in a "sticky" way.  When the hair is dry, it's super soft and smooth.
> 
> I agree w/Navs a/b indirect heat being included in whether to use heat protection. Heat is heat, indirect or otherwise, IMO.



Thank you!!   I've learned so much from this thread. I've never used serums before so I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right and protect those ends ! This is gonna be my third attempt at a rollerset and I want it to come out right this time. The first two times I used too much products and I airdried and it was a flop so I'm using heat this time with a serum/heat protectant and just one leave-in conditioner.  

Have you (or anyone) ever used Fantasia Hair Polisher Heat Protector Straightening serum for a roller set?  I bought that yesterday after reading soo many good reviews on it for flat ironing and planning to use it for my rollerset.


----------



## Artemis (Feb 4, 2007)

Nope, but I'm sure it works similarly to the PM Super Skinny.  When you rollerset are you doing it on sopping wet hair? That's the key to a successful set. If you don't already, get yourself a spray bottle and keep it filled w/water so you can spray and re-spray as necessary. Don't worry a/b the serum, it can still do it's job with the hair wet like that...

HTH


----------



## RubyWoo (Feb 4, 2007)

artemis_e. said:
			
		

> Nope, but I'm sure it works similarly to the PM Super Skinny.  When you rollerset are you doing it on sopping wet hair? That's the key to a successful set. If you don't already, get yourself a spray bottle and keep it filled w/water so you can spray and re-spray as necessary. Don't worry a/b the serum, it can still do it's job with the hair wet like that...
> 
> HTH



No, I wasn't doing it on sopping wet hair.  That was probably part of the problem.  I towel dried and then went to work. Thank you soo much for the tips! I really appreciate! it


----------



## Artemis (Feb 4, 2007)

Not a problem  .

When you get a chance do a search for Macherie's blog or some of the rollersetting threads.  There's tons of tutorials on here...I'll see if I can bump a couple up for you.


----------



## SerenityBreeze (Feb 4, 2007)

Great information Navs!


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## HoneyDew (Feb 4, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I personally wouldn't use it before flat ironing because typically the ingredients do make it like an oil and it seems better at retaining moisture than anything else.  Far-infrared heat ions from a ceramic flat iron are meant to produce water molecule resonance and hold in moisture, so your hair shouldn't be less moisturized after blow drying and flat-ironing.  I would use a serum or heat protectant spray (like Nexxus Heat Protexx) before flat ironing and then use the Qhemet butter afterwards if you are worried about moisture escaping later.
> 
> Also, what serum did you normally use in the past?  I noticed drastic differences in my hair when using the Garnier serum vs. the Silk Infusion for instance.




I use Fantasia IC in the pink bottle, Keracare Silken Seal or Redken Heat Glide.  I don't like Garnier's serum.  It does not seem to work for me like the ones I use.  I do own some Silk Infusion, but I have never used it.  I plan to try it out after I finish what I am currently using.

So far, what I am doing is working, though.  We'll see what happens.


----------



## InnerSoul (Feb 4, 2007)

CinnaMocha said:
			
		

> Than my poor hair suffered back in the day when I pressed it with all that oil/grease during my college days...shame, shame, shame...


 
this also explains why my hair strands in the past would split in five different directions when I would blow dry my hair with the comb attachment...I only had oils on my hair not a heat protectant .


----------



## angellazette (Feb 5, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I think it would depend on what oil it is (some oils are heavier than others, for instance, regular Amla oil would remain on the strands longer than Amla Lite).  What oil do you normally use?




I use coconut oil.


----------



## AVNchick (Feb 5, 2007)

What a great thread. I need to print out copies and hand them to friends and family who think that using grease to hot-comb their hair actually protects


----------



## navsegda (Feb 5, 2007)

angellazette said:
			
		

> I use coconut oil.



In that case, I'd wait a couple days or until the next wash day altogether.  I don't know how heavily you apply your coconut oil to your hair.  But I never flat iron anyway except right after I've washed and conditioned (flat ironing "dirty" hair is also bad) and the only time I ever use oil is either before a wash or after I've flat ironed.


----------



## pistachio (Feb 5, 2007)

Hey Navs!

I just bought some CHI silk infusion and was wondering if you apply it to wet hair, then air dry and flat-iron, or apply it to already dried hair, then flat iron?  And about how much d you use for your whole head?  A quarter, nickle, or dime sized amount?  Sorry for all the questions!  If anyone else would like to answer with feedback I'd love to hear what you guys have to say too


----------



## kally (Feb 5, 2007)

Thanks Nav for all of this information and you do have some beautiful hair. 

Once my hair grows out, I plan to flat iron and this will help me out.


----------



## baglady215 (Feb 5, 2007)

Great thread.  I used to flat iron with coconut oil and while I had shine, it felt deathly dry.  This makes so much sense!  I just ordered some CHI Silk Infusion (although I have tons of other serums...  it's the PJ in me!) and I can't wait to try it out.  Thanks Nav!!!


----------



## Bublnbrnsuga (Feb 5, 2007)

Haven't read then entire thread, but anyway:
I use WGO on my hair when pressing/flatironing and never had a problem. (whenever I do flatiron/press). Growing up getting my hair pressed, posner bergamont grease was used. If not, it would defeat the purpose of straightening. My hair would've been a frizzy mess for real with out oils. Matter of fact, my hair gets straighter when using oils. Never used a heat protectants and really don't see a need to since my hair bounces right back after a press/flatiron.

Grease/oils for flatironing/pressing for me all the way, baby!


----------



## HoneyDew (Feb 5, 2007)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Haven't read then entire thread, but anyway:
> I use WGO on my hair when pressing/flatironing and never had a problem. (whenever I do flatiron/press). Growing up getting my hair pressed, posner bergamont grease was used. If not, it would defeat the purpose of straightening. My hair would've been a frizzy mess for real with out oils. Matter of fact, my hair gets straighter when using oils. Never used a heat protectants and really don't see a need to since my hair bounces right back after a press/flatiron.
> 
> Grease/oils for flatironing/pressing for me all the way, baby!



That's what I was saying too.  I use Sidr Tree Butter Balm on my wet hair before I dry it and flatiron. I do use a serum, too, but the Butter Balm on my wet hair as a leave-in really gives me good results and moisture.

Before I discovered Sidr Tree I used to use a leave-in, serum and Kemi oyl. Never had a problem.  I have never had a problem with heat damage or breakage.  Really the only hair problem I have ever had, and caused me to cut my hair was having a weave in my hair too long.  I never had a problem with heat damage or dryness or anything with my hair. 

Honestly, the times when I DON'T use my Sidr tree butter balm is when #1 I have to use more heat to get my hair straight or #2 my moisture does not last as long as I like during the week and I haev to keep applying moisturizer.

I think it is also the temp. that a person uses and how often the heat is used that make a difference as well.


----------



## navsegda (Feb 5, 2007)

pistachio said:
			
		

> Hey Navs!
> 
> I just bought some CHI silk infusion and was wondering if you apply it to wet hair, then air dry and flat-iron, or apply it to already dried hair, then flat iron?  And about how much d you use for your whole head?  A quarter, nickle, or dime sized amount?  Sorry for all the questions!  If anyone else would like to answer with feedback I'd love to hear what you guys have to say too



I have my hair divided into 4 sections and then I use a quarter-sized amount on each section.  I usually wait until the hair has already dried before applying it but I've used it in the past on wet hair and still had really great results.


----------



## navsegda (Feb 5, 2007)

Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Haven't read then entire thread, but anyway:
> I use WGO on my hair when pressing/flatironing and never had a problem. (whenever I do flatiron/press). Growing up getting my hair pressed, posner bergamont grease was used. If not, it would defeat the purpose of straightening. My hair would've been a frizzy mess for real with out oils. Matter of fact, my hair gets straighter when using oils. Never used a heat protectants and really don't see a need to since my hair bounces right back after a press/flatiron.
> 
> Grease/oils for flatironing/pressing for me all the way, baby!


The reason why many people in the past used oils was because of how straight the oils get the hair.  Now several people have found a variety of serums that work that will get their hair just as straight without using oils and with offering them the heat protection that the oils do not offer.  But a lot happens at a microscopic level that we cannot see until later when it has manifested to the physical (for instance, if you use and love a product for months while sticking with the same regimen and then all of a sudden you notice this product is drying your hair out, that doesn't mean it just started sucking the moisture out of or stripping your hair, but it has stripped the other layers enough so damage has reached the physical level). Even a lot of people who responded in this thread and others like it commented on their hair being damaged when using oils to press.  To me, it's kinda like playing Russian Roulette with your hair:  you never know which chamber in the gun contains the bullet and you never know which day will cause the damage to manifest, so I still encourage people to use heat protectants.  

You have really pretty hair and I would hate to see any damage in the long run.  You cannot see which bonds were broken or not in your hair until it has accumulated into damage, which is a collective destruction of bonds on a largescale basis.

Just think of it this way:  viruses for instance are dangerous, even deadly.  However, you can be exposed to some viruses in your life and may not catch them.  That doesn't mean you are necessarily immune to catching a particular virus and that it won't make you sick later on in your life, though.  I wouldn't purposely tell people to expose themselves to viruses just because they may not get sick from all of them, and thus, I wouldn't purposely tell anyone not to use a heat protectant just because they may not have noticed damage in the past.


----------



## angellazette (Feb 5, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> In that case, I'd wait a couple days or until the next wash day altogether.  I don't know how heavily you apply your coconut oil to your hair.  But I never flat iron anyway except right after I've washed and conditioned (flat ironing "dirty" hair is also bad) and the only time I ever use oil is either before a wash or after I've flat ironed.




Well I'll switch it around and see (serum then oil).  I did use it after putting in my leave in and coconut oil and it left my hair really soft.  Didn't flat iron though.


----------



## Amarech (Feb 5, 2007)

Awwwww mannnn!!!!!erplexed  Well back to the drawing board. So does Paul Mitchell or Aveda have a good leave in? 

I love my almond oil!!! Right now I'm using Paul Mitchell "The Conditioner" as a leave in but I still add a good amount of almond oil before that. Oh well. 
Maybe I'll try silk therapy or something.

I don't get it. If my hair looks good, feels good,  growing and retaining length is it that bad?


----------



## NeeSee (Feb 5, 2007)

Do what's best for your hair.


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## Amarech (Feb 5, 2007)

Yeah. The info here is good and I will cut back on the oils. But until I see breakage or my hair stops retaining its length, I'll keep my almond oil 

what can i say, I'm a hopeless oil addict!!!!


----------



## Dare~to~Dream (Feb 6, 2007)

*Hmm....I don't think I can give up coconut oil either. I have not straightened my hair in over a year but I remember using virgin coconut oil (used along with a pressing crÃ©me) and it gave me the lightest, most silkiest press ever!  Better than regular "grease."  I've tried a straigthening serum from Kenra and after blowdrying, the ends of my hair were crunchy and dry.  I've also used John Frieda's Wind Down Relax CrÃ©me-works very well and it also has silicones.  I would try using something like that along with a little of the coconut oil because I don't think I will stop using the coconut oil all together. *


----------



## pistachio (Feb 6, 2007)

navsegda said:
			
		

> I have my hair divided into 4 sections and then I use a quarter-sized amount on each section. I usually wait until the hair has already dried before applying it but I've used it in the past on wet hair and still had really great results.


 
Thanks.  Funny thing is, is that i already did my hair before I read this post, and I did exactly what you did except, I did air dry with it, and you're right, the results still came out wonderful!!  Thanx for introducing LHCF to CHI silk infus.!!!!!


----------



## LiLi (Feb 6, 2007)

Taij said:
			
		

> Awwwww mannnn!!!!!erplexed Well back to the drawing board. So does Paul Mitchell or Aveda have a good leave in?
> 
> I love my almond oil!!! Right now I'm using Paul Mitchell "The Conditioner" as a leave in but I still add a good amount of almond oil before that. Oh well.
> Maybe I'll try silk therapy or something.
> ...


 
If your hair looks and feels good and you are retaining length ... please keep doing what you are doing.  Not everything works the same for everyone.  

Even though myself and others have been singing the praises of CHI Silk Infusion since it was put out on the shelves in 2005 lol: ), not everyone will get the same results.  Do what works for you.  

I have been on this and other boards for several years and have seen so many products hyped up and then you don't hear anything about them for a long time (ex. LUST, Feria, etc. ... all the old heads know about these ) because another one takes it's place.  What I have learned is that I can't possibly expect for every product rave to work for me.

I raved about the Silk Infusion and absolutely love it only because it does something for my hair that I haven't seen other products do.   BUT, that doesn't mean that it's going to do the same for everyone.  

Don't change if what you are doing works.


----------



## gymfreak336 (Feb 6, 2007)

LiLi said:
			
		

> If your hair looks and feels good and you are retaining length ... please keep doing what you are doing.  Not everything works the same for everyone.
> 
> Even though myself and others have been singing the praises of CHI Silk Infusion since it was put out on the shelves in 2005 lol: ), not everyone will get the same results.  Do what works for you.
> 
> ...



I remember those. That and blackstrap molasses


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## LipGlassHoney (Feb 10, 2007)

My hair is natural and I haven't flat ironed my hair in almost 3 years.  The last time i did, my hair wouldn't revert back to it's curly state.  I plan on getting it straightened today and here are the steps: Wash and deep condition, apply CHI Silk Infusion and then sit under dryer until dry, apply phyto defrissant and then flat iron.  Can someone please tell me if this is good?


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## SleepyJean (Sep 23, 2007)

ust wanted to be able to subscribe to this.


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## OrangeMoon (Nov 20, 2007)

Okay I'm seriously thinking about booting the lady that gave me my last relaxer...she blow dried my hair and sprayed it with wonder 8 oil...I need some advice from my LHCF peeps. I know it bad but can someone confirm "She f'd up by using the oil?" She didn't flat iron but she sho nuff used Wonder 8 oil.


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## Sweetyb (Dec 5, 2007)

LiLi said:


> If your hair looks and feels good and you are retaining length ... please keep doing what you are doing. Not everything works the same for everyone.
> 
> Even though myself and others have been singing the praises of CHI Silk Infusion since it was put out on the shelves in 2005 lol: ), not everyone will get the same results. Do what works for you.
> 
> ...


 
I totally agree and think that hair texture/thickness plays a big part too.  My fine natural hair is less resilient to heat and chemicals than, say my sister's thick natural hair that can withstand any kind of abuse and still grow.  

I definitely agree though with the fact that using oil to press your hair is bad for the hair, and ever since I originally read this thread I have stopped _completely _using oils before using heat, indirect or direct, to mine or anyone else's hair.  I strongly believe that my hair breakage during the years I used direct heat attributed to my frequent use of oils before blow drying, and sometimes even before flat ironing/pressing.  And I blame a lot of websites that instruct how to press hair because most mention the use of oil.  Well after years of breakage I will never use anything that contains oils before pressing hair again.

I've been experimenting with pressing products on people's hair, and so far _very _good results!  The natural and relaxed hair presses really well and stays straight!  I'll then spritz their hair with an oil spray or just with a serum and the hair will shine as if I used oil before pressing.  I highly recommend nixing oil from the routine and only using oil for setting the style or on your ends at night; there are just too many options out there to have to stick to oil.  But like Lili said, whatever works for you.


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## thegirltolove (Dec 5, 2007)

WOW, this is really good information. I wish I was aware of this before. I don't think that I would have had near the amount of dryness and damage that I have. I am going to try this for a while and see how my hair reacts. Thank you ladies!!! God bless you!!!!!


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## SleepyJean (Dec 5, 2007)

Sweetyb said:


> I totally agree and think that hair texture/thickness plays a big part too. My fine natural hair is less resilient to heat and chemicals than, say my sister's thick natural hair that can withstand any kind of abuse and still grow.
> 
> I definitely agree though with the fact that using oil to press your hair is bad for the hair, and ever since I originally read this thread I have stopped _completely _using oils before using heat, indirect or direct, to mine or anyone else's hair. I strongly believe that my hair breakage during the years I used direct heat attributed to my frequent use of oils before blow drying, and sometimes even before flat ironing/pressing. And I blame a lot of websites that instruct how to press hair because most mention the use of oil. Well after years of breakage I will never use anything that contains oils before pressing hair again.
> 
> I've been experimenting with pressing products on people's hair, and so far _very _good results! The natural and relaxed hair presses really well and stays straight! I'll then spritz their hair with an oil spray or just with a serum and the hair will shine as if I used oil before pressing. I highly recommend nixing oil from the routine and only using oil for setting the style or on your ends at night; there are just too many options out there to have to stick to oil. But like Lili said, whatever works for you.


 
I have done this, also. It has helped my hair much. Now, I have to work on my thinning edges from flat ironing.  At least I've accomplished something, though. My hair has grown an inch since then, which is very much to me. Sillicones are my friends.


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## caribgirl (Jul 4, 2008)

Bumping!!!!!


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## Irresistible (Jul 4, 2008)

Oils (not grease) have always been good for my hair when heat styling. I cant read this whole thread I just cant see it as bad when its sooo sooo good!


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Jul 4, 2008)

brownsugarflyygirl said:


> Okay...so I know cones and silk proteins are good for protecting hair when using heat.
> 
> But I remember someone saying that using oil was bad because it causes some part of the hair shaft to boil or something scientific like that. Can Navs, Sistaslik, anyone explain to me why using straight oil is bad?
> 
> ...


 
at the bolded.....there was a thread about that on BHM....
I think that the whole Idea is not to fry our hair... so oils and heat elements shouldn't mix... hey........ but that is one opinion.

Rumor has it that Grapeseed oil has a higher 'frying' point - so It may be safer - but I think one is taking a risk with lots of oil and lots of heat....


----------



## firewoman213 (Jul 4, 2008)

so is there any natural heat protectant just as good as cones?


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## SparklingFlame (Dec 2, 2008)

Well lets just bumpity bump this.


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## Superfly Sister (Dec 2, 2008)

high heat + oil = frying


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## BostonMaria (Dec 2, 2008)

WOW!! Thank you to whoever bumped this thread! I've used coconut oil for flatironing my hair on 3 occassions! It couldve been diastrous! 

I'm going to Ulta on Sat and now I know exactly what to buy, a Chi heat protectant! Maybe Biosilk too. I'll never use any oil again except when I wear my hair curly.


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Dec 2, 2008)

BostonMaria said:


> WOW!! Thank you to whoever bumped this thread! I've used coconut oil for flatironing my hair on 3 occassions! It couldve been diastrous!
> 
> I'm going to Ulta on Sat and now I know exactly what to buy, a Chi heat protectant! Maybe Biosilk too. I'll never use any oil again except when I wear my hair curly.


 

Biosilk has a high alcohol content... Just an FYI.


----------



## mezzogirl (Dec 2, 2008)

Oh My Word.  I'm so glad I read this thread.  I sometimes have left over oil from my DCing. I know when I've used too much oil because my hair doesn't move freely.  I had no idea I was frying it. :burning:


----------



## BostonMaria (Dec 3, 2008)

samanthajones67 said:


> Biosilk has a high alcohol content... Just an FYI.



Thanks for the warning! I'll stay away from it then. Alcohol dries out my hair. 

By the way I love your hair in your signature.


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## PGirl (Dec 20, 2008)

:wow:Bumpity!


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## luxe.li. (Dec 20, 2008)

With my hair natural, I HAVE to use some kind of silk serum, or shea butter oil to flat iron with. I HAVE to or my hair will not get straight. Before when I would flat iron as relaxed, I would just wash my hair, blow dry, and flat iron. NO product. Not only does flat ironing dry on my natural hair sounds like its breaking my hair (there's no slide), it doesn't get the ends straight AT all.

My hair has shine when I flat iron, and I'm a flat iron junkie, I basically depend on it for my natural short hair style, but I try not to get in a habit of doing it too much. I can't really wrap my hair because its too short, so I lose my curl alot, and my hair is too short for rollers, and the rollers that are small leave a too tight curl. I'm still looking for an alternative to heat.


----------



## luxe.li. (Dec 20, 2008)

okay I've been reading some of the post, I guess I'll just use a silk serum, I don't like biosilk, and I really don't like CHI but if I have to buy it again to keep from "frying" my hair I guess I will!


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## PGirl (Dec 20, 2008)

luxe.li. said:


> okay I've been reading some of the post, I guess I'll just use a silk serum, I don't like biosilk, and I really don't like CHI but if I have to buy it again to keep from "frying" my hair I guess I will!


 
That is exactly what I think the thread is saying to do.  You don't have to use Chi though (I like it myself).  She mentions several others...one by Nexxus and another by Garnier...


----------



## vainღ♥♡jane (Apr 19, 2009)

*b u m p i n g ! !*


----------



## SelahOco (Sep 4, 2009)

this is exactly the thread I was looking for!

I was about to ask the question, then I heard MSA in my head saying, "Did you do a search."

I did a search and this perfect thread popped up.  I want to straighten for a length check and to clip my ends.  I have a history of professionals heat damaging my natural hair.  I don't want that again..this is very helpful/


----------



## shunemite (Sep 4, 2009)

OcoLove said:


> this is exactly the thread I was looking for!
> 
> I was about to ask the question, then I heard MSA in my head saying, "Did you do a search."
> 
> I did a search and this perfect thread popped up.  I want to straighten for a length check and to clip my ends.  I have a history of professionals heat damaging my natural hair.  I don't want that again..this is very helpful/


Thanks for bumping this thread! This is the fifth time this week I'm hearing: lighten up on the oil. I've always flat ironed with oils, so this time I'll try it with my serum instead.


----------



## LushLox (Feb 27, 2010)

I flat ironed my daughter's hair yesterday and used virgin coconut oil, I was contemplating between that and some serum, but her hair is so fine I worried about the serum weighing down her hair.  The coconut oil gave her such a lovely silky finish, but I think I'll have to rethink using the oil on her hair in the future.


----------



## LaidBak (Feb 27, 2010)

Awesome info by navs in the beginning of this thread.  I can't use serums because of the long term drying effects.  And I LOVES me some oils.  So I mostly do without heat.  I have my hair washed and flat ironed at the salon maybe 2 or 3 times a month.  I always have the oil applied after the flat ironing is done.


----------



## Angelicus (Feb 27, 2010)

Thank you for this entire thread! I have only used oil a couple of times in 4 years but you all are right... using a serum is so much better.


----------



## natural_one (Oct 4, 2011)

what about oils that have a smoke point of 400 degrees or higher? Which means they won't break down until the flat iron reaches that temperature. Avocado (520), almond (420), and grapeseed (420) all have smoke points of 400 or higher and they are light..


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## LaVgirl (Oct 6, 2011)

^^^ This.

I wonder....even if you don't use it as a heat protectant by itself, how about using it with the Chi or another serum/heat protectant?

I will be straightening my hair in December and this is my first time getting it done since I started caring for my hair properly. So I've been really trying to get more information about it... My plan so far is washing, deep condition, leave-in on day 1. Day 2, use my avocado and grapeseed oils along with the Chi Silk Infusion before/while straightening.


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## natural_one (Oct 6, 2011)

LaVgirl said:


> I wonder....even if you don't use it as a heat protectant by itself, how about using it with the Chi or another serum/heat protectant?
> 
> .



This is what I plan to do..The day before I will shampoo and deep condition then apply almond oil and lanolin then let it air dry. The next day I will use noixin thermal bliss and flatiron.


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## Diva_Esq (Oct 6, 2011)

Just like ANY OTHER advice on this board, some things may work for some and not others.  When I RARELY rock a flatty, I use Sabino Moisture Block and a very light, small amount of Mizani Supreme Oil. No sizzle, no straight pieces.  One pass through VERY small sections using the comb chase method.  Nice light, airy flatty with a nice sheen to it and it takes about a week before I need to wash it out.  I have to lightly oil my scalp every few days b/c my scalp stays dry when I'm not cowashing daily. I only rock a flatty for length checks/ trims and occasionally in the fall/ winter when I don't have to fight humidity.  

Disclaimer: I DO NOT LET MY HAIR SIZZLE OR USE ENOUGH OIL FOR MY HAIR TO BE GREASY.


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## keepithealthy (Oct 6, 2011)

natural_one said:


> what about oils that have a smoke point of 400 degrees or higher? Which means they won't break down until the flat iron reaches that temperature. Avocado (520), almond (420), and grapeseed (420) all have smoke points of 400 or higher and they are light..



^^^^^I was thinking about this earlier this week. I've used various serums and the only one I really like is Cantu Shea Butter super shine silk. That has Shea Butter oil as the 4th ingredient. But the results with that are still kind of meh....Serums just don't seem to cut it for my hair. The one time I used a little oil (just a little) to flat iron my hair it was much straighter and lasted longer. I used coconut oil at the time because that was all I had.

So I am also wondering if it is ok to use oils with a higher smoking point.


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## natural_one (Oct 10, 2011)

Well, I used a pressing oil on my hair over the weekend to straighten it and no smoke or sizzle. I don't believe I had any heat damage because I was able to get it straight in one pass. For the ladies that would like to use oil, I say experiment with higher smoke point oils on a small portion of your hair and see how it affects it.


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## Tiye (Oct 10, 2011)

I didn't read the whole thread but vis a vis the sizzle that sounds to me like too much oil is being used not a matter of oil being bad. With any product there is a point where you don't get extra effect if you pile on more. I use oils or oil based moisturizing product with a light touch before pressing and I don't have sizzle or smoke. I've never had heat damage maybe because my hair is coarse and I'm careful with heat tools. There's the usual caveat about different advice working for different people but for me oils work better.


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