# Saved and Sexy?



## neenzmj (Mar 17, 2009)

Can the two go together?  In my opinion?  Absolutely but not in the way our society portrays it.    DH and I frequently have a discussion about this, especially those times when he tells me how sexy I am but I think I’m looking a hot mess.  So, I ask him “what does sexy mean to you?”  *His answer:*  It’s the woman’s overall way of carrying herself – her confidence, her body language, a slight “strut” in her walk (like a stallion) – shoulders back, head held high – her attitude, her mannerisms.  So, if this is true, a woman can be “sexy” in anything from an evening gown to a sweatsuit.  

  I suspect much of this comes from knowing who you are and WHOSE you are.  I shudder to think of all the many times I went prancing into the club with my short, tight dresses.  Back then it was my opinion that it was pointless to wear a dress that didn’t come close to cutting off my circulation!  I thought the more I showed and the more gawks I got from men, the sexier I was.  I think all I really did was show off was my insecurity and need for attention.  It wasn’t until I really learned to love myself that the light bulb went on.  

  So now that I have two daughters and I’ve really tried to teach them that being sexy does not mean having their boobs oozing over their shirts or their behinds hanging out of a pair of shorts.  It is my hope that it doesn’t take them the majority of their lives to realize they are beautiful not because of what they reveal on the outside, but because of who God has made them on the inside.

  Saved and sexy?  What do you ladies think?


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Think about this often. 

I love the Lord. He is my number one focus and all I do, I want his approval. 

Yet, I like to be sexy. In dress (no showing my goods but Im 23 so classy/trendy/fashionable), in style, in walk, in words, everything. I proud myself on embracing my femininity and Im not afraid to express confidence in what I do. 

Thing is, I think...Am I being humble? Does humble mean I cant be sexy or show confidence? Is it ok to wear tight jeans and sexy shoes (my chest stays covered)? How much skin is too much skin? On and On...Ive become very self-conscious about this stuff. 

And I have some dresses I know I can never wear again  

I know alot of you may disagree with this but I pole dance. Yes, I said it. In a studio, women only. I hate going to the gym where men are consistently in your face. I love it. You get a hard workout and you feel super sexy.  Unless your my husband, NO ONE will ever see me do my tricks. Its so feminine and freeing and graceful. You guys probably like you know you wrong....





neenzmj said:


> Can the two go together? In my opinion? Absolutely but not in the way our society portrays it. DH and I frequently have a discussion about this, especially those times when he tells me how sexy I am but I think I’m looking a hot mess. So, I ask him “what does sexy mean to you?” *His answer:* It’s the woman’s overall way of carrying herself – her confidence, her body language, a slight “strut” in her walk (like a stallion) – shoulders back, head held high – her attitude, her mannerisms. So, if this is true, a woman can be “sexy” in anything from an evening gown to a sweatsuit.
> 
> I suspect much of this comes from knowing who you are and WHOSE you are. I shudder to think of all the many times I went prancing into the club with my short, tight dresses. Back then it was my opinion that it was pointless to wear a dress that didn’t come close to cutting off my circulation! I thought the more I showed and the more gawks I got from men, the sexier I was. I think all I really did was show off was my insecurity and need for attention. It wasn’t until I really learned to love myself that the light bulb went on.
> 
> ...


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## hopeful (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> *You guys probably like you know you wrong....*


 
 


...........


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## Browndilocks (Mar 17, 2009)

You don't have to look like you work the pole every night, but I do believe in dressing sexy.  I have a nice body.  I like to wear things that show off my curves.  As long as its done in good taste, I dont see anything wrong with it and it certainly doesn't diminish who I am as a christian.

A lot of those "sanctified" ways of dressing is just plain ugly.


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

I saw the youtube videos of a woman doing a poll dance. She was pretty covered. Except she had the standard hooker shoes on. But, I figured that mighthelp with the poll dancing.

She was doing all types of splits and twirls. It looks fun. I wish I could hang upside down, twirl around..like new dance moves... I don't really see what turns people on about it...erplexed

It was like doing gymnastics. The balance beam..or a floor routine.  I don't see anything wrong with that...and the only reason most people don't because it is a "national sport". But, you know perverts look at those lil girls too. 

I don't know if Saved and Sexy go together in PUBLIC. I think it can go together for your husband. But, I don't want to look saved and sexy. I don't want anything coming off of me as a single woman that says "sexy". Mainly, because I don't want to attract any energy that goes with "sexy". I want  to attract the energy that goes with "saved" though. hahaha. 

I know that when I get dressed...put together a awesome shoe and hand bag combo or a  1960's dress...I want to look Saved and Stylish. Saved and Sophisticated. Saved and Fierce..ya know..

There are other words out there that can easily describe..what I want to feel when I'm out and about.

Sessy is fo da house!


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## MA2010 (Mar 17, 2009)

Great question OP! This is from Christian Singlez.com. This pretty much sums it up for me. This person put into words what I could not....lol. 

"_With the popularity of low riders, belly shirts, navel piercings and other such fashion trends, we have to ask ourselves:  Can Christians Be Sexy?

First, we have to consider what 'sexy' is and the implications of being considered 'sexy' in today's world.  The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language defines it as follows:

sex·y
adj. sex·i·er, sex·i·est 

*Arousing or tending to arouse sexual desire or interest. 
*Slang. Highly appealing or interesting; attractive: “The recruiting brochures are getting sexier” (Jack R. Wentworth). 


Arousing or tending to arouse sexual desire - hmm, is this how we want to present ourselves? Maybe not.  (And ladies, I apologize - but most of this posting will be for you.  I know there is a double standard for men and women, but after we acknowledge that fact, we just have to figure out a way to deal with it.)

*Here's the thing - so many sins can be traced back to the sexual - fornication, adultery, some forms of covetousness, lust - not to mention the potential addictive and destructive nature of sex.  So do we want to dress or act in a way that appeals solely to the sexual desires of the members of the opposite sex? If only to help out our Christian brothers, I'd have to say - probably not.*

I know it's tempting to want to be fashionable - as a recent news report revealed, it's harder to find shirts of normal length sometimes than belly shirts.  And, yes, while you might be able to wear it, the question is not can you, but should you.

*The Bible admonishes that women "…..adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works. 1 Titus 2:9-10)"  Clearly the emphasis here is for a women to be more modest than flashy and to 'display' her value through the good works with which she occupies herself.  In other words, that it's not necessarily about what's on the outside, but what's on the inside.*
I like my low riders as well as the next person, but I also realize that, as a Christian, I have to be a model for what is appropriate as a follower of Christ.  And that is your duty as well - to model being a Christian - particularly for non-Christians.  In this respect, you are a leader - however you dress, whatever you say and whatever you do will be interpreted in light of your professed Christianity.  Fair?  No.  Realistic?  Yes.

So - think about it the next time you pull out that color-coordinated, hot outfit that you plan to wear on that next outing with your girlfriends.  Get dressed and take a good long look in the mirror.  And think to yourself - what are my clothes saying about me?  What will people think when they see me?  Is this how I see myself?

The choice is up to you, but I humbly suggest that you seriously consider the above questions and make the best decision possible about what you are about to wear.  And that's all any of us can do…._"

Again, this was from http://christiansinglez.wordpress.com/2006/05/09/can-christians-be-sexy/ and not my own words but I agree with it.


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## Browndilocks (Mar 17, 2009)

A nice pencil skirt with a slammin pair of pumps = SEXY

A long shapeless skirt that looks like you've been wrapped in a tarp = UGLY

A mini skirt that can barely cover your butt cheeks = POLE DANCER


Healthy pretty hair swangin in the wind = SEXY

Homely wet dried bun with no filler or accessories = UGLY

Multicolor mohawk with fingerwaves on the side = POLE DANCER


Perfectly fitted white collar shirt, unbuttoned showing necklace & tapered at the waist = SEXY

White bandit shirt buttoned all the way up with a doilied collar = UGLY

Lace overlay covering the white lace bra = POLE DANCER


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> I saw the youtube videos of a woman doing a poll dance. She was pretty covered. Except she had the standard hooker shoes on. But, I figured that mighthelp with the poll dancing.
> 
> She was doing all types of splits and twirls. It looks fun. I wish I could hang upside down, twirl around..like new dance moves... I don't really see what turns people on about it...erplexed
> 
> It was like doing gymnastics. The balance beam..or a floor routine. I don't see anything wrong with that...and the only reason most people don't because it is a "national sport". But, you know perverts look at those lil girls too.


 

It actually requires ALOT of athletism to do. Its hard but with practice, you get better and better and then you get addiction. I wear regular workout clothes there but its only chicks so its very comfortable. LOL and yes the shoes are standard and they make certain move easier to do. Without shoes, quite awkward. Its alot of fun. But if your like a republican, conservative type person, it will be difficult to do. You can to be able to let go and trust that you wont let yourself hurt youself.


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## momi (Mar 17, 2009)

My question is - why would a Christian woman want to be referred to as Sexy?  

That is such a worldy term.  We are called to be Holy. 

When the thought crosses my mind (which I freely admit it does)...  I ask myself where the thought came from?  Am I seeking the approval of this world?  Why - when the world hates my Father.  I have to check myself often to make sure I am walking in step with The Lord.... I have much more to say but I must see to dinner.


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## momi (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> It actually requires ALOT of athletism to do. Its hard but with practice, you get better and better and then you get addiction. I wear regular workout clothes there but its only chicks so its very comfortable. LOL and yes the shoes are standard and they make certain move easier to do. Without shoes, quite awkward. Its alot of fun. But if your like a republican, conservative type person, it will be difficult to do. You can to be able to let go and trust that you wont let yourself hurt youself.


 
LOL this is funny!  A republican!  

I am ultra-conservative and far from a democrat, but TRUST I can hold my own where I need to (in the privacy of my bedroom within the sanctity of marriage)


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Manushka said:


> _ Get dressed and take a good long look in the mirror. And think to yourself - what are my clothes saying about me? What will people think when they see me? Is this how I see myself?_


 
I think this is what I do. If there cleavage, too much leg, my navel showing, I change.

Is there a difference between looking sexy and feeling sexy? 

I dont appreciate being called sexy because, in my opinion, i've heard men call the most trifling women sexy and its like...she's sexy because she has no standards. 

I'd want my husband to think I've sexy because I've rather him want to have sex with me only...ya know? hahaha

Too me its not about being sexually appealing rather being feminine and graceful...like at the Virtuous Woman in Proverbs.


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## neenzmj (Mar 17, 2009)

I used the word "sexy" for lack of a better word.  What I hoped would come out of my original post was the fact that being "sexy" (or whatever adjective you use) isn't about the type of dress at all -- it's an attitude, a confidence a woman exudes.


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## hopeful (Mar 17, 2009)

This is a good thread.  I honestly have never thought about this before.  I am enjoying the responses.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

Why would we need to take an activity that is known as whoreish, sleazy and darkness and incorporate it in our lives? Why would we make ANY affiliation with ungodliness and think it's ok? How is pole dancing glorifying God in your lives. Why do what hoes do? And how can you do it and expect God and man to see you as virtuous, holy women of God? Join Curves to exercise, all women.

I don't want my DH to be reminded of whores, strippers and prostitutes when we're being intimate or at any other time. I want him to always be aware that I am the glory of God, that God has allowed him to share His glory with him and to ALWAYS treat me and see me as such when he looks at me.


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## neenzmj (Mar 17, 2009)

When my husband refers to my as "sexy", I take it as a huge compliment because I know what he really means is that he enjoys looking at the way I carry myself.

My "sexiness" is for him -- and only him.



momi said:


> My question is - why would a Christian woman want to be referred to as Sexy?
> 
> That is such a worldy term.  We are called to be Holy.
> 
> When the thought crosses my mind (which I freely admit it does)...  I ask myself where the thought came from?  Am I seeking the approval of this world?  Why - when the world hates my Father.  I have to check myself often to make sure I am walking in step with The Lord.... I have much more to say but I must see to dinner.


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## MA2010 (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I think this is what I do. If there cleavage, too much leg, my navel showing, I change.


 

You and I both. If I don't check myself and what I have on I tend to grow very uncomfortable.

I'm learing to do all for Christ and not myself. 

I already don't feel comfortable anymore in my skinny jeans, especially when I wear heels. I realize most dresses I own are too tight and too short. My "so fly" heels are looking suspect everyday...lol. I feel I have to do a complete wardrobe evaluation to assure I'm not a hinderance (sp) to any other. 

God is making changes in me so that I don't worry to much anymore in "being sexy" and "looking cute". A lot of it is pure conceit and pride (neither are HOLY) for me.

What other man am I trying to impress but GOD and DH anyways??? 

I need to fall on my knees and ask that the Lord breaks me and molds me anew when it comes to my conceit, pride, and "sexiness"!


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## Ramya (Mar 17, 2009)

People tell me that I'm sexy but I take it to mean "womanly, soft and feminine" which is the look that i'm going for. I like to feel feminine and demure. I never wore overly trashy things to begin with but I wore things that now I can't imagine wearing again. I've found that I'm becoming more and more modest. No I'm not in ankle length sack dresses but I don't like clingy materials and low cut blouses anymore. I've really noticed a change in the way people address me. Sexy for me is an attitude not a means to seduce anyone.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Yeah, thats what I was asking my question for from the ladies. I can feel sexy and not necessarily "look" sexy. But I understand how the ladies would put them together because when you dress up, you'll often feel better about yourself.

And being sexual isnt necessarily a bad thing because God made us sexual being as well. Its natural but in self-control and should only be expressed in marriage of course. 


neenzmj said:


> I used the word "sexy" for lack of a better word. What I hoped would come out of my original post was the fact that being "sexy" (or whatever adjective you use) isn't about the type of dress at all -- it's an attitude, a confidence a woman exudes.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Contrary to popular belief, pole dance did not originate in the strip clubs. It has been perverted as many things in our society have been perverted. Circus' have pole dancer, are they whores? 

I acknowledge your points and will seriously consider what you're said. 



Ms.Honey said:


> Why would we need to take an activity that is known as whoreish, sleazy and darkness and incorporate it in our lives? Why would we make ANY affiliation with ungodliness and think it's ok? How is pole dancing glorifying God in your lives. Why do what hoes do? And how can you do it and expect God and man to see you as virtuous, holy women of God? Join Curves to exercise, all women.
> 
> I don't want my DH to be reminded of whores, strippers and prostitutes when we're being intimate or at any other time. I want him to always be aware that I am the glory of God, that God has allowed him to share His glory with him and to ALWAYS treat me and see me as such when he looks at me.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Contrary to popular belief, pole dance did not originate in the strip clubs. It has been perverted as many things in our society have been perverted. Circus' have pole dancer, are they whores?
> 
> I acknowledge your points and will seriously consider what you're said.


 
Where it originated and what it's associated with are totally different things. 

Pole dancing is for strippers. Pole dancing classes are to train women to dance like strippers. Are you practicing to circus music learning circus routines or are you practicing to stipper/club music learning stripper routines?


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## firecracker (Mar 17, 2009)

I agree with your man.  Sexy is an Aura.  You can be in a turtleneck and long skirt all the while being sexy but you can't tell a load of women today that.   Some women dress to get attention from men instead of dressing nice to look nice in what fits their body type.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

I disagree. They dont train you to be strippers. Thats the biggest misconception of the sport. They teach you to build your strength to do the hard stuff.  And whats stripper music?

So...according to your theory...since *marijuana* is associated with drug dealers, poverty, and godlessness, if you needed it for medicinal purposes, would you not take it?

Often times association with something is based on pop culture. And just because pop culture says its for this does not devoid its original purpose. Thats like saying sex is ok anytime, anywhere but we all know thats not its original purpose.

I'm not here to defend what I do nor to change your mind. I'll consider your viewpoint. 




Ms.Honey said:


> Where it originated and what it's associated with are totally different things.
> 
> Pole dancing is for strippers. Pole dancing classes are to train women to dance like strippers. Are you practicing to circus music learning circus routines or are you practicing to stipper/club music learning stripper routines?


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## Ramya (Mar 17, 2009)

Yall just gave me inspiration for my column . Lots of food for thought here


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## firecracker (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I disagree. They dont train you to be strippers. Thats the biggest misconception of the sport. They teach you to build your strength to do the hard stuff. And whats stripper music?
> 
> So...according to your theory...since *marijuana* is associated with drug dealers, poverty, and godlessness, if you needed it for medicinal purposes, would you not take it?
> 
> ...


You should ask me the marijuana question.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Women I belive extude sexy without being slutty. 

Michelle Obama & Kim K - my style is a combination of the two

Im sure Barack things she's super sexy but her clothing is modest and fashionable. She's my style icon.

Kim K has all the assets to go with the package but I rarely see cleaveage. Booty is hard to hide.


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> It actually requires ALOT of athletism to do. Its hard but with practice, you get better and better and then you get addiction. I wear regular workout clothes there but its only chicks so its very comfortable. LOL and yes the shoes are standard and they make certain move easier to do. Without shoes, quite awkward. Its alot of fun. But if your like a republican, conservative type person, it will be difficult to do. You can to be able to let go and trust that you wont let yourself hurt youself.



I know it does! That is why I compared it to gymanstics. It looks like you have to have some serious core strength. 

Well you know if you ever wanted a change of pae or to do something totally fun...you could runaway and join the circus! Hahahaha! All those flips, splits, spins, backward bends...

I agree with you this sport has been seriously perverted. At first I wasn't going to watch the video when it was posted in OT. Because from what I've seen on the movies (in theaters)...the people are half naked, shaking they booty...etc..

But, folks started commenting on the moves so I watched the video. It really does remind me of gymnastics...It's definitely something that takes hard work ..like any other sport or dance.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I disagree. They dont train you to be strippers. Thats the biggest misconception of the sport. They teach you to build your strength to do the hard stuff. And whats stripper music?
> 
> So...according to your theory...since *marijuana* is associated with drug dealers, poverty, and godlessness, if you needed it for medicinal purposes, would you not take it?
> 
> ...


 
Pole dancing is a sport? OK. When the vast majority of people hear pole dancing what do they think? Do they think sport or stripper? What type of music are you training to? You don't know what I mean when I say stipper/club music? 

Just pray and ask God.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Pole and gymnastics is nothing both core strength. Your whole body has to be solid but core is essential. Without it, you're just walking around a pole pretty much. 

I would LOVE to do gymnastics hardcore. They be getting it on the beam, floor, tramp, etc... But its much scarier. I tried it once and I fell on my head literally trying to jump and flip on the tramp. Needless to say, I didnt go back. Not a good look. If I get bored with pole, I'll probably try it again I am sure. The gym is boring to me. I like to stay active and fit in fun ways. 



TrustMeLove said:


> I know it does! That is why I compared it to gymanstics. It looks like you have to have some serious core strength.
> 
> Well you know if you ever wanted a change of pae or to do something totally fun...you could runaway and join the circus! Hahahaha! All those flips, splits, spins, backward bends...
> 
> ...


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Pole dancing is a sport? OK. When *the vast majority of people* hear pole dancing what do they think? Do they think sport or stripper? What type of music are you training to? You don't know what I mean when I say stipper/club music?
> 
> Just pray and ask God.



Exactlly my point.

sport –noun 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature 

It is a sport.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Exactlly my point.


 
What's exactly your point?


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Exactlly my point.
> 
> sport –noun 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature
> 
> It is a sport.


 
Wow, so strippers are athletes 

Just ask God is He being glorified in this activity.


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Pole and gymnastics is nothing both core strength. Your whole body has to be solid but core is essential. Without it, you're just walking around a pole pretty much.
> 
> I would LOVE to do gymnastics hardcore. They be getting it on the beam, floor, tramp, etc... But its much scarier. I tried it once and I fell on my head literally trying to jump and flip on the tramp. Needless to say, I didnt go back. Not a good look. If I get bored with pole, I'll probably try it again I am sure. The gym is boring to me. I like to stay active and fit in fun ways.



Don't let one bad incident ruin it all for you. Maybe you need to find a better training ctr and a better coach. If you can do the poll dancing semi well you should definitely look into getting a coach/class for gymnastics...


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> What's exactly your point?


 
Majority meaning popular opinion. Popular opinion has nothing to do with its original intent. 

Regardless of what I say, you're going to judge it and obviously judge me. 

Pole is not what this thread is about so if you want to talk, PM me.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

You're right. When I've mastered the pole, I'll move on. I have ADD in everything, I'll get bored eventually. 



TrustMeLove said:


> Don't let one bad incident ruin it all for you. Maybe you need to find a better training ctr and a better coach. If you can do the poll dancing semi well you should definitely look into getting a coach/class for gymnastics...


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Majority meaning popular opinion. Popular opinion has nothing to do with its original intent.
> 
> Regardless of what I say, you're going to judge it and obviously judge me.
> 
> Pole is not what this thread is about so if you want to talk, PM me.


 
With all things we seek God first and His counsel. I sent you a pm.


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## momi (Mar 17, 2009)

In this and all things - let's study the original (God's word) and not the counterfeit (what the world says we should aspire to) and let that be the deciding factor.

This would make a nice bible study.  Think of women as mentioned in the bible - what is the first adjective that comes to mind?


I'll start...

Sexy? nope
Modest - yep
virtuous
chaste
good

It is so easy to be lead astray by ideals and concepts that are not of God.  We have to destroy and re-build our thinking... this is a constant and daily task for me - Lord help!


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## MA2010 (Mar 17, 2009)

momi said:


> In this and all things - let's study the original (God's word) and not the counterfeit (what the world says we should aspire to) and let that be the deciding factor.
> 
> This would make a nice bible study. Think of women as mentioned in the bible - what is the first adjective that comes to mind?
> 
> ...


 
I was patiently waiting for you to come back...........! 

Destroy and rebuild our thinking indeed. I like that concept.


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

I guess we can all agree sexy isn't the right word.

But, I do believe we can be saved and sharp. Saved and sophisticated. Saved and stylish. 

Those are all cool things..to be and don't bring shame to God.

But, it's ok to be Saved and NOT stylish or well dressed. This doesn't bring shame to God either.


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## Ramya (Mar 17, 2009)

So I've started a study on this topic and so far I've looked up sexy according to today's standard.



> Sexually suggestive or stimulating


 
Why on Earth would I want to sexually stimulate or cause my brother to have impure thoughts?

And then I went to the Word.

*Romans 12:1* I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 *And* do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Am I truly treating my body as a living sacrifice if I am causing my brother impure thoughts? Do I even want that kind of attention? 

1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

From the passages that I've read immodesty is connected with pride and sexual immorality. This leads me to believe that by dressing immodestly, I am sewing seeds of sexual immorality and pride into my spirit and heart. I can not glorify God with a prideful heart and I cannot say that I love my neighbor if I am causing them to lust with their eyes. Sin begins with first seeing/hearing and then thinking about it and finally acting on it. Do not cause your neighbor to fall!


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> I guess we can all agree sexy isn't the right word.
> 
> But, I do believe we can be saved and sharp. Saved and sophisticated. Saved and stylish.
> 
> ...


 
I think "alluring" better describes what OP is expressing.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Proverbs 31 

The Virtuous Wife
    10 Who* can find a virtuous[c] wife? 
      For her worth is far above rubies. 
       11 The heart of her husband safely trusts her; 
      So he will have no lack of gain. 
       12 She does him good and not evil 
      All the days of her life. 
       13 She seeks wool and flax, 
      And willingly works with her hands. 
       14 She is like the merchant ships, 
      She brings her food from afar. 
       15 She also rises while it is yet night, 
      And provides food for her household, 
      And a portion for her maidservants. 
       16 She considers a field and buys it; 
      From her profits she plants a vineyard. 
       17 She girds herself with strength, 
      And strengthens her arms. 
       18 She perceives that her merchandise is good, 
      And her lamp does not go out by night. 
       19 She stretches out her hands to the distaff, 
      And her hand holds the spindle. 
       20 She extends her hand to the poor, 
      Yes, she reaches out her hands to the needy. 
       21 She is not afraid of snow for her household, 
      For all her household is clothed with scarlet. 
22 She makes tapestry for herself; 
Her clothing is fine linen and purple. 
       23 Her husband is known in the gates, 
      When he sits among the elders of the land. 
       24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
      And supplies sashes for the merchants. 
       25 Strength and honor are her clothing; 
      She shall rejoice in time to come. 
       26 She opens her mouth with wisdom, 
      And on her tongue is the law of kindness. 
       27 She watches over the ways of her household, 
      And does not eat the bread of idleness. 
       28 Her children rise up and call her blessed; 
      Her husband also, and he praises her: 
       29 “ Many daughters have done well, 
      But you excel them all.” 
       30 Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing, 
      But a woman who fears the LORD, she shall be praised. 
       31 Give her of the fruit of her hands, 
      And let her own works praise her in the gates.

Its clear to me here that a godly woman is dress beautifully inside and out.*


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## Aviah (Mar 17, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Why would we need to take an activity that is known as whoreish, sleazy and darkness and incorporate it in our lives? Why would we make ANY affiliation with ungodliness and think it's ok? How is pole dancing glorifying God in your lives. Why do what hoes do? And how can you do it and expect God and man to see you as virtuous, holy women of God? Join Curves to exercise, all women.
> 
> I don't want my DH to be reminded of whores, strippers and prostitutes when we're being intimate or at any other time. I want him to always be aware that I am the glory of God, that God has allowed him to share His glory with him and to ALWAYS treat me and see me as such when he looks at me.




Sex itself can be associated with these things, as are g-strings, pumps, etc. The difference is the context. Now if  a man who is now saved used to be promiscuous, and sex was just something to do before he was saved then sex could remind him of sleazy behavior also. As with the other things mentioned, does this mean sleeping with your husband makes you a whore? No way! but having sex is what whores do. And if a man, who has married a woman is going to associate her with whoredom because she is trying to appeal to him, I believe there is an issue. There are obviously many reasons (at least there should be) he had for marrying her. There are many wild things that prostitues do for men that their saved, holy wives can do for them WITHIN marriage. Therefore to say that pole-dancing is inherently "whoreish" IMHO is not so. What could be more appealing to a man f he has everything he wants from his wife right there in the bedroom?


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## Renewed1 (Mar 17, 2009)

I feel that I can be saved and sexy.  It depends what the person (yourself) and the people that are watching you consider "sexy".   Which can be anything!  A man could think that you're sexy because you're smart, for example.  

I do believe a Christian woman should dress modestly.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

But like the OP stated again, I dont believe she was referring to clothing at all. Attitude and confidence...thats whats she talking about...



Ms.Honey said:


> I think "alluring" better describes what OP is expressing.


 


TrustMeLove said:


> I guess we can all agree sexy isn't the right word.
> 
> But, I do believe we can be saved and sharp. Saved and sophisticated. Saved and stylish.
> 
> ...


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## Ramya (Mar 17, 2009)

well dressed or 'finely dressed' does not mean adhering to current trends in fashion. I associate 'finely' dressed with flattering cuts and silhouettes.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Intelligence is the top (under being a godly man) thing for me. 

I love smart men. So sexy. Its a requirement I marry a man that will teach me something. I like muscles too... Nice body is on the list as well.

Oh and men in power position. Barack Obama.... 
No offense Michelle



Changed said:


> I feel that I can be saved and sexy. It depends what the person (yourself) and the people that are watching you consider "sexy". Which can be anything! A man could think that you're sexy because you're smart, for example.
> 
> I do believe a Christian woman should dress modestly.


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## Renewed1 (Mar 17, 2009)

Well said Aviah.  It's all about association and a particular person's viewpoint.  If my (future) hubby wants me to pole dance for him....I WILL!! I was taught and I agree with, that anything that you and your husband agreed to do in the bedroom should not be considered ungodly.  



Aviah said:


> Sex itself can be associated with these things, as are g-strings, pumps, etc. The difference is the context. Now if  a man who is now saved used to be promiscuous, and sex was just something to do before he was saved then sex could remind him of sleazy behavior also. As with the other things mentioned, does this mean sleeping with your husband makes you a whore? No way! but having sex is what whores do. And if a man, who has married a woman is going to associate her with whoredom because she is trying to appeal to him, I believe there is an issue. There are obviously many reasons (at least there should be) he had for marrying her. There are many wild things that prostitues do for men that their saved, holy wives can do for them WITHIN marriage. Therefore to say that pole-dancing is inherently "whoreish" IMHO is not so. What could be more appealing to a man f he has everything he wants from his wife right there in the bedroom?


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

And if he said, its for "whores" I dont want you doing it, I'll stop as a submissive wife should.



Changed said:


> Well said Aviah. It's all about association and a particular person's viewpoint. If my (future) hubby wants me to pole dance for him....I WILL!! I was taught and I agree with, that anything that you and your husband agreed to do in the bedroom should not be considered ungodly.


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## Renewed1 (Mar 17, 2009)

I so agree!  




prettyfaceANB said:


> Intelligence is the top (under being a godly man) thing for me.
> 
> I love smart men. So sexy. Its a requirement I marry a man that will teach me something. I like muscles too... Nice body is on the list as well.
> 
> ...


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I think "alluring" better describes what OP is expressing.



Probably! I just used other words that I think I am. Hahaha, Sharp, Stylish, Sophisticated...hahaha.

But, alluring might be a better word. I don't want to be that either. I don't want to bring on any attention from men( random dudes) in any way that isn't something deeper than something you can see on the outside.

Those fools usually end up being loooserrrs!


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Intelligence is the top (under being a godly man) thing for me.
> 
> I love smart men. So sexy. Its a requirement I marry a man that will teach me something. I like muscles too... Nice body is on the list as well.
> 
> ...



You are a mess! :rofl3: I love smart men too. But, it doesn't have to be like you know nerdy smart. But, be a master of something...ya know? I want to feel like I can learn things from my husband. That he is leading his househould. 

*I love the P's

Pastor
Prophet
Protector
Provider*

I think their might be another P...but my husband needs to be all of thee above.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Of course not. Trendy is current and that changes every seasons. Trendy is not the same as well-dressed. 

For example: 







alabama said:


> well dressed or 'finely dressed' does not mean adhering to current trends in fashion. I associate 'finely' dressed with flattering cuts and silhouettes.


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

alabama said:


> well dressed or 'finely dressed' does not mean adhering to current trends in fashion. I associate 'finely' dressed with flattering cuts and silhouettes.



I don't know why you said the above or if it is in response to something in the thread. But, I totally agree. I really have my own form of fashion and it somtimes doesn't go with the current trend or what is in NOW!

But, I am just doing me...


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

Aviah said:


> Sex itself can be associated with these things, as are g-strings, pumps, etc. The difference is the context. Now if a man who is now saved used to be promiscuous, and sex was just something to do before he was saved then sex could remind him of sleazy behavior also. As with the other things mentioned, does this mean sleeping with your husband makes you a whore? No way! but having sex is what whores do. And if a man, who has married a woman is going to associate her with whoredom because she is trying to appeal to him, I believe there is an issue. There are obviously many reasons (at least there should be) he had for marrying her. There are many wild things that prostitues do for men that their saved, holy wives can do for them WITHIN marriage. Therefore to say that pole-dancing is inherently "whoreish" IMHO is not so. What could be more appealing to a man f he has everything he wants from his wife right there in the bedroom?


 
Pole dancing is a sex industry activity made popular in the secular world because of UNGODLY SEXUALITY!!!!!!. What does darkness have to do with the Light?


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## momi (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Of course not. Trendy is current and that changes every seasons. Trendy is not the same as well-dressed.
> 
> For example:


 

Now this is funny


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> You are a mess! :rofl3: I love smart men too. But, it doesn't have to be like you know nerdy smart. But, be a master of something...ya know? I want to feel like I can learn things from my husband. That he is leading his househould.
> 
> *I love the P's*
> 
> ...


 
Yes, I man that knows his stuff...intelligence is so sexy...

Nerdy smart can fly too. As long as he looks good to me. But thats just me. I'll take Bill Gates anyday...

No geeks though. No life outside of a mainframe computer. Annoying. Arrogant. No thank you.


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## momi (Mar 17, 2009)

Manushka said:


> I was patiently waiting for you to come back...........!
> 
> Destroy and rebuild our thinking indeed. I like that concept.


 
Thanks - I hi-jacked it from somebody.  It was either Matt Chandler or Bryan Lorrits


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## Ramya (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Of course not. Trendy is current and that changes every seasons. Trendy is not the same as well-dressed.
> 
> For example:



I know but there are many who think so. If there weren't the stores wouldn't fill racks with those items. And the above is a hot mess on so many levels


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## neenzmj (Mar 17, 2009)

You ladies have turned this into a great discussion.  In having looked at many of the comments I thought, "wouldn't it be great if Christians began setting the trends instead of the other way around?"


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

neenzmj said:


> You ladies have turned this into a great discussion.  In having looked at many of the comments I thought, "wouldn't it be great if Christians began setting the trends instead of the other way around?"



What type of trends?


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

Psa 1:1 *Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly*, *nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. *

 Psa 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 


 Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. 


 Psa 1:4 The ungodly [are] not so: but [are] like the chaff which the wind driveth away. 


 Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 


 Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. 

Be careful of what ideas and ways you take from the world and incorporate in your lives saints.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

1Ti 4:8 *For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things*, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.


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## Renewed1 (Mar 17, 2009)

Never mind.


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## Aviah (Mar 17, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Pole dancing is a sex industry activity made popular in the secular world because of UNGODLY SEXUALITY!!!!!!. What does darkness have to do with the Light?



Replace pole dancing with porno and you could say the same thing. That is ungodly sexuality. But it doesnt mean that it because we do what they do (in a different context in which it is allowed) that we are who they are. We belong to Christ and sure we should behave that way, but again imho it doesn't mean that you can't appeal to your husband. If you weren't appealng to him at all, that can be another issue. To each their own...

Interesting thread, but I'll leave it here


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## neenzmj (Mar 17, 2009)

Fashion mainly, but what I really mean is when certain "trends" come around, it can be hard (especially for younger women and teens) to find styles that are cute yet don't compromise their values.

I remember when my daughter was younger, it was a nightmare trying to find jeans that didn't reveal her "crack" without having a top long enough to cover everything.  I always found myself saying "go back in the house and put on another shirt -- I'm not tryin' to see your behind!  I hated the super low-rise jeans, but everywhere you turned that's all you could seem to find unless you wore the ones that came up to your bra!  Even in church -- that's all I saw a lot of time:  cracks and boobs!


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

Changed said:


> Never mind.


 
Yes, I totally disagree with the whole idea of pole dancing.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

neenzmj said:


> ....but everywhere you turned that's all you could seem to find unless you wore the ones that came up to your bra! Even in church -- that's all I saw a lot of time: cracks and boobs!


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## Aviah (Mar 17, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Pole dancing is a sex industry activity made popular in the secular world because of UNGODLY SEXUALITY!!!!!!. What does darkness have to do with the Light?



Replace pole dancing with porno and you could say the same thing. That is ungodly sexuality. But it doesnt mean that it because we do what they do (in a different context in which it is allowed) that we are who they are. We belong to Christ and sure we should behave that way, but again imho it doesn't mean that you can't appeal to your husband. If you weren't appealng to him at all, that can be another issue. To each their own...

We can also say that hip/booty movement is inherently sexual, but in some parts of Africa it is something both men and women do. I spoke to a friend who told me that in a Nigerian church they did this while praising God and it was not an issue, all innocent, because of cultural context. You can say whores do that, and that that too is inherently sexual but it depends.
Just because we see things culturally associated with the world doesn't mean it can never be anything else...

Interesting thread, but I'll leave it here


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

neenzmj said:


> Fashion mainly, but what I really mean is when certain "trends" come around, it can be hard (especially for younger women and teens) to find styles that are cute yet don't compromise their values.
> 
> I remember when my daughter was younger, it was a nightmare trying to find jeans that didn't reveal her "crack" without having a top long enough to cover everything.  I always found myself saying "go back in the house and put on another shirt -- I'm not tryin' to see your behind!  I hated the super low-rise jeans, but everywhere you turned that's all you could seem to find unless you wore the ones that came up to your bra!  Even in church -- that's all I saw a lot of time:  cracks and boobs!



I like low rise jeans. I can't wear them...yet  I use too.

But, with low rise jeans you have to make sure you wear the appropriate length shirt. It was cool not to have the pants creating lumps in your shirt. The pants were low and your shirts could lay flat all around.

But, like you were saying above. YOU MUST HAVE THE APPROPRIATE SHIRTS!

Other wise your crack would be all out! I wore belts with my pants and bought the appropriate shirts. Since I have bigger boobs I always wear undershirts and usually my undershirts were a bit long on average so I was ALWAYS covered. I feel uncomfortable showing skin close to those "special" areas.

I see alot of the young people hahaha (my brothers age 16 and my age 24) being covered, but going kind of Kanye west crazy with the style. In some cases looking a mess..but looking so cool too.

My brother had a high top fade recently. It's called dressing Retro. I'll dig up some pics.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Proverbs 31: 17 She girds herself with strength, 
      And strengthens her arms. 
Slothfulness is ungodly as well...not taking care of your body is ungodly
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 & Ephesians 5:29 



Ms.Honey said:


> 1Ti 4:8 *For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things*, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.


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## Akemi (Mar 17, 2009)

This is a great thread!


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

The above..very trendy stylish, but a MESS! However COVERED! I see the young women (teenagers mostly)  in my church not dressed as crazy, but with these colors and similar styles all the time. Usually, not in church but if were are all hanging out chilling.

My brother dresses exactly like this for school....so it's still trendy but covered..


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

You have the most interesting screenname to date.. Love it!


veggieBURGER said:


> This is a great thread!


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Proverbs 31: 17 She girds herself with strength,
> And strengthens her arms.
> Slothfulness is ungodly as well...not taking care of your body is ungodly
> 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 & Ephesians 5:29


 
How did you compare slothfulness with exercise? You can exercise and still be a slothful person. It doesn't say don't exercise but to be godly profits you more. "She strengthen her arms" does not mean she was working out but that she was a productive women and gained strength BTW.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Kids dress like this at my church.  Its a big church. Its a mess but they'll out grew it. They just bringing back the 80s...Its funny to me.


TrustMeLove said:


> The above..very trendy stylish, but a MESS! However COVERED! I see the young women (teenagers mostly) in my church not dressed as crazy, but with these colors and similar styles all the time. Usually, not in church but if were are all hanging out chilling.
> 
> My brother dresses exactly like this for school....so it's still trendy but covered..


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## Akemi (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> You have the most interesting screenname to date.. Love it!



Thanks!


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Kids dress like this at my church.  Its a big church. Its a mess but they'll out grew it. They just bringing back the 80s...Its funny to me.



At my church in oakland in la too SOME of the kids dress like this while at church. In Oakland it is MUCH MUCH more laid back and the kids come dressed jeans..whatever. However, the older people only mention something if folks walk up in there with some ridiculous short outfit on.

But, the more the kids come to church overtime you will see their outfits change. My outfits have developed from when I was a teenager. Now I was never wearing jeans to church. But, I would wear simple skirt..simple pants...simple top.

I started to buy nicer more put together close for church as I got older. I actually started to spend money on my church clothes. All my other clothes were fresh to death, but my church clothes were blah blah. I decided to put hte same amount of money and time into that section of my wardrobe too.

I am just happy to see the teenagers in church. 1 got saved last sunday. The Lord manifested himself in that place heavily...someone even was delievered...throw up and all. (Some of yall know what throwing up means..I'll leave it at that)

Anyways....as they grow in Christ their clothing will change as well. Mine did and I wasn't wearing jeans and all that stuff to church from the start. Just make sure folks don't try to turn them into over night lil mee's by bagging on them when they do start coming.


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## MA2010 (Mar 17, 2009)

IMO............

We are called by God, through Jesus, to leave this world behind. So "sexy", "trendy", "cool", and all that should be left to this world. 

We should take heed in being DIFFERENT and SET APART! This is what I pray for daily; "Lord, help me remove myself of wordly dress, behavor, speech, etc". 

I get so wrapped up in my own style, fashion, speech, demeanor, behavior.....that I miss God's intent for me being saved in the 1st place. 

I so often feel the need to be "cool" and "fly" and be "looked at" to the point where I loose myself all over again in the world. erplexed

*As you can tell this issue is DEEP to me.* 

Wordly seperation, especially when it deals with "sexinesss", "allure", and "just plain self conceit within myself" is a big issue. Great thread OP!


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 17, 2009)

Manushka said:


> IMO............
> 
> We are called by God, through Jesus, to leave this world behind. So "sexy", "trendy", "cool", and all that should be left to this world.
> 
> ...


 
Very true. It's little things that spoil us. We can usually see the big things that ruin us and can easily avoid them, USUALLY. Jesus draws when He is lifted up but the world also has a drawing nature to it also. That's why with everything no matter how harmless it seems or how natural we MUST take it to God in prayer before we act. When it comes to all wordly activities and the way we dress we must ask "Lord, does this glorify you?" "Lord, how will this affect my witness?"

Mat 6:33But seek ye* first* the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added



2Cr 6:17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, 

*2Cr 6:18*And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


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## hopeful (Mar 17, 2009)

When I first read this thread earlier today I looked a hot mess.  I could not leave the house that way though.  I put on a pair of jeans, cute shoes, cute top and a hoodie.  Redid my hair, added a little makeup.  I found myself wanting to represent myself well as a Christian woman.  This thread reminded me of the importance of putting my best foot forward as often as possible.


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## chicacanella (Mar 17, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> I saw the youtube videos of a woman doing a poll dance. She was pretty covered. Except she had the standard hooker shoes on. But, I figured that mighthelp with the poll dancing.
> 
> She was doing all types of splits and twirls. It looks fun. I wish I could hang upside down, twirl around..like new dance moves... I don't really see what turns people on about it...erplexed
> 
> ...


 

*Okay, I have to say something about this "sexy" thing.  I think when a man refers to a woman as sexy or beautiful or gorgeous, etc depends on where their mind is. For instance, I was on the elevator one day and I was dressed very appropriately but the man says, "Hey sexy." I'm thinking, "Whoaa, you can even be polite now-a-days unless someone will think you are open romantically." Now, I believe this had to do with his mindset overall and that is what he saw but I know I could've been described as beautiful and a host of more words that actually fit how I looked. So sometimes, you may be dressed appropriately but it's the man with the wrong type of mindset.*


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## neenzmj (Mar 17, 2009)

chicacanella:  I definitely agree about the mindset of the person, not to mention the fact that the word "sexy" has been used to describe everything from women to cars.  Knowing what I know now, I think if anyone addressed me in that way (other than my husband), I'd probably be taken aback.  Now when my husband calls me sexy... look out!




chicacanella said:


> *Okay, I have to say something about this "sexy" thing.  I think when a man refers to a woman as sexy or beautiful or gorgeous, etc depends on where their mind is. For instance, I was on the elevator one day and I was dressed very appropriately but the man says, "Hey sexy." I'm thinking, "Whoaa, you can even be polite now-a-days unless someone will think you are open romantically." Now, I believe this had to do with his mindset overall and that is what he saw but I know I could've been described as beautiful and a host of more words that actually fit how I looked. So sometimes, you may be dressed appropriately but it's the man with the wrong type of mindset.*


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## aribell (Mar 17, 2009)

deleted post...will re-post later.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 17, 2009)

Well thats lends the question:

Are we as Christians to disassociate ourselves from the good or innocent society preverts? 

Society will sex up anything to cash in on it. Pole dancing begin in the Victorian age around the 12th century used as a fertility dance. Used throughout Asian and Indian for men and women, in yoga and to strengthen themselves. Of course they do not call it pole dance as Americans do. They sometimes use rope instead of metal poles. Its also an act widely used in Asian circus...its very beautiful to me. 






Pole = metal vertical object 
Dance = to move one's feet or body, or both, rhythmically in a pattern of steps

This is what I think when I see, pole dancing. Its graceful, beautiful, mesmerizing. I am not a stripper. I will never go near a strip club. 

I agree, you can not Christianize everything. But whatever a husband and wife do behind close doors aint my business. Porn is wrong, too me, because its an act of perpetual fornication. Their acts are wrong because no one is married. But the actual acts themselves, are fine in the bedroom between a husband and wife. Oh and making profit off how lying on your back is pretty sick too...but thats another thread.



nicola.kirwan said:


> The pole dancing thing is interesting. I think it raises the question whether we as Christians can sanctify and "Christianize" anything, or whether some things are just rotten through and through and should be discarded.


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## Ramya (Mar 17, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> deleted post...will re-post later.



I thought your post was very interesting and relevant to the discussion. I feel one way about porn and pole dancing and I doubt that will change. My question is now why would my husband need these things to desire me especially concerning pornography. 

Because for me porn is sexually immoral on the basis that it brings another couple or whatever the case may be into our bedroom. The act becomes more about what we are watching than our union. There are a number of other reasons why i detest pornography but this is not the thread. I can't quite grasp the trend of pole dancing for exercise and i don't feel comfortable with the idea of it for a number of reasons. There are quite a few things that I feel should not be adopted by Christians.


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## MA2010 (Mar 17, 2009)

alabama said:


> I thought your post was very interesting and relevant to the discussion. I feel one way about porn and pole dancing and I doubt that will change. *My question is now why would my husband need these things to desire me especially concerning pornography.*
> 
> Because for me porn is sexually immoral on the basis that it brings another couple or whatever the case may be into our bedroom. The act becomes more about what we are watching than our union. There are a number of other reasons why i detest pornography but this is not the thread. I can't quite grasp the trend of pole dancing for exercise and i don't feel comfortable with the idea of it for a number of reasons. There are quite a few things that I feel should not be adopted by Christians.


 
He doesn't need any of those things girl............!


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 17, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Well thats lends the question:
> 
> Are we as Christians to disassociate ourselves from the good or innocent society preverts?
> 
> ...



When I think of poll dancing I think of nasty strippers AND the video I saw on youtube of poll dancing as a competitve dance/sport.  If your only exposure to something has been negative it is hard to get past that thing, because society has perverted a cultural dance/expression.  All this booty popping etc...has been apart of it's perversion.

From the video I saw on youtube it made me connect poll dancing with gymnastics and circus people. They do all of that same stuff. I've been to the circus I know what I saw. hahaha!

I've been raised in a society that for me has turned sex into something really gross, dirty, and un meaningful. Anybody can do it anywhere with any who or anything. SERIOUSLY! It's used to sell everything from shampoo to car insurance. Heathens participate in it and so do the religious. 

I actually had to get back to the scriptures to start getting my mind around this thing. That it's ok to have sex. Once you are married. 

My friend recently got married and they would have to bear down and pray before the act because she would be crying through it and all tense. It was hard to enjoy such a precious gift from God, because of all the negative dirty things that she had built up in her mind regarding sex mainly from influences in the world. She was a virgin when she married too.

She told a group of women this at our other friends wedding shower. I told her that, I was happy she felt comfortable sharing that because I deal with the same issues. I'm a virgin, but I can see this being a problem for me too once I get to that point. I'm trying to deal with it now.

I don't see the problem with learning how to do what circus people do. They do these tricks and things on polls and ropes. Long as a person isn't at the strip joint, putting on private shows, yadda yadda. I dont' see the problem.

If anyone has seen competitive poll dancing you will see it is really like a form of gymnastics or like the folks at the circus. Folks exposure to it's perverted form may be hard to get by to see things for it's original intent.


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## aribell (Mar 18, 2009)

Sorry, didn't see the response before I deleted my original post.  For the sake of the other readers, part of what it said was:



			
				nicola.kirwan said:
			
		

> It was said that whatever a husband and wife agree to in the bedroom is acceptable between them.  I am unmarried, so take this for what it's worth, but I don't think that's true at all.  For instance, in porn, a lot of it is degrading to women, not just in the fact that they are on the screen, but in the scenarios played out, the names they're called...overall, the porn industry is presenting a certain image of what the sexual relationship between a man and a woman should be, and for a husband and wife to bring that into their bedroom would be to replicate something that is ungodly in _attitude_ and _perspective_--there's no Christianizing it, since the bad attitude itself is what produced the industry.
> 
> A husband and wife can definitely sin _together _in their attitude and what they choose to enter into their lives.  They can still act lustfully by objectifying one another even though they are married.



The pole dancing question was a general one that I think is applicable to everyone, meaning that the comment wasn't directed toward you PrettyFace.  But I am somewhat wary of general "culture" arguments since we (those who are in the US) don't live in Africa, Asia, India or anywhere else.  So, yeah, women go topless in parts of Africa...but I'm not going to walk down the street in Philly without a shirt on and then say that modesty is culturally relative.

I don't think anyone needs to justify to anyone else what they do or do not do (we only answer to Christ), but it's good to put things out there to think about.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

Geez, thats sad. I pray she over came that. Satan perverts everything. He's perverted the church. Ministers sleeping with members, stealing money, failing to preach the Gospel... He's perverted children's movie. Disney has become more 'out there' over the past decade. He's perverted Christmas. It's now about gifts, lights, Santa, and trees, instead of Christ. He's perverted sex...we all know how. He perverts everything.



TrustMeLove said:


> My friend recently got married and they would have to bear down and pray before the act because she would be crying through it and all tense. It was hard to enjoy such a precious gift from God, because of all the negative dirty things that she had built up in her mind regarding sex mainly from influences in the world. She was a virgin when she married too.
> 
> She told a group of women this at our other friends wedding shower. I told her that, I was happy she felt comfortable sharing that because I deal with the same issues. I'm a virgin, but I can see this being a problem for me too once I get to that point. I'm trying to deal with it now.
> 
> ...


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Geez, thats sad. I pray she over came that. Satan perverts everything. He's perverted the church. Ministers sleeping with members, stealing money, failing to preach the Gospel... He's perverted children's movie. Disney has become more 'out there' over the past decade. He's perverted Christmas. It's now about gifts, lights, Santa, and trees, instead of Christ. He's perverted sex...we all know how. He perverts everything.



Well, I don't know the updates, but when she told us that story she said that things were getting a lot better. But, she was still praying before hand..you know. 

I just did a google on why folks wear what they were when doing the poll dances. I read that the skin needs to be in contact with the poll or when you are doing some of the moves you will slip and fall. So your stomach, arms, and legs need to be exposed. And you can't put lotion on your body. 

Is that true?


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## aribell (Mar 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I agree, you can not Christianize everything. But whatever a husband and wife do behind close doors aint my business. Porn is wrong, too me, because its an act of perpetual fornication. *Their acts are wrong because no one is married. But the actual acts themselves, are fine in the bedroom between a husband and wife.* Oh and making profit off how lying on your back is pretty sick too...but thats another thread.


 
To the bolded, for anyone who's had the misfortune of seeing pornography, it becomes clear pretty quickly that it's not just about unmarried (or married, even) people having sex on the screen.  There is an entire *mentality *that accompanies it, of objectification and oftentimes humiliation, lust, and the like.  _The actors being married or not married wouldn't change those things._

The point being that Christians have to be discerning in what we emulate and discern the spirit that is behind it.  I think what happens sometimes is we latch onto things and then say, "Well, I'm a Christian, so when I do x,y, and z" it's automatically different, not realizing that it's really not.


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## Renewed1 (Mar 18, 2009)

I agree.  

It's like belly-dancing to a certain degree.  

BTW I'm learning to belly-dance and I love it.  Great workout for the abs and hips.




nicola.kirwan said:


> The pole dancing question was a general one that I think is applicable to everyone, meaning that the comment wasn't directed toward you PrettyFace.  But I am somewhat wary of general "culture" arguments since we (those who are in the US) don't live in Africa, Asia, India or anywhere else.  So, yeah, women go topless in parts of Africa...but I'm not going to walk down the street in Philly without a shirt on and then say that modesty is culturally relative.
> 
> I don't think anyone needs to justify to anyone else what they do or do not do (we only answer to Christ), but it's good to put things out there to think about.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

Girl Ive seen and heard of terrible accidents. Its so true. They have two main rules: If you choose to wear the heels, they have to have quarter size heels or larger (they help make spins less awkward to do and no stilletos, this aint your bedroom) and NO LOTION OR OIL BEFORE OR DURING CLASS. Stay ashy for your safety. Its messes up the pole and when you go to spin, beware of the flying dancer....or falling depends on what your doing. To do advance tricks, besides alot of strength, your skin needs to make contact with the pole unless your that good and strong (which takes alot of work). For the pretty tricks, you'll be hands and legs free sometimes and the only thing holding you up it your abs, back of knee, or armpit against the pole. Very tricky stuff but super fun. 



TrustMeLove said:


> Well, I don't know the updates, but when she told us that story she said that things were getting a lot better. But, she was still praying before hand..you know.
> 
> I just did a google on why folks wear what they were when doing the poll dances. I read that the skin needs to be in contact with the poll or when you are doing some of the moves you will slip and fall. So your stomach, arms, and legs need to be exposed. And you can't put lotion on your body.
> 
> Is that true?


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> To the bolded, for anyone who's had the misfortune of seeing pornography, it becomes clear pretty quickly that it's not just about unmarried (or married, even) people having sex on the screen. There is an entire *mentality *that accompanies it, of objectification and oftentimes humiliation, lust, and the like. _The actors being married or not married wouldn't change those things._
> 
> The point being that Christians have to be discerning in what we emulate and discern the spirit that is behind it. I think what happens sometimes is we latch onto things and then say, "Well, I'm a Christian, so when I do x,y, and z" it's automatically different, not realizing that it's really not.


 
Oh you talking about the sick stuff...yeah...I agree with you on that. Two on one, homo sex, being slapped (but some people like that), raped, pee'd on (ok too graphic), etc...thats not cool. I guess I was just thinking about men and women sex...

BTW, I didnt take offense to what you said before.



Changed said:


> I agree.
> 
> It's like belly-dancing to a certain degree.
> 
> BTW I'm learning to belly-dance and I love it. Great workout for the abs and hips.


 
Girl, thats up next. If I am not to big a punk to try gymnastics again. Belly dancing is so sexy and feminine. I love it. I guess you guess can tell I love all dance by now? I dont discernment. I would go to the club every weekend if it wasnt for the men...the music...the alcohol...or the people all together...just a room and a DJ is all I need.


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 18, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> To the bolded, for anyone who's had the misfortune of seeing pornography, it becomes clear pretty quickly that it's not just about unmarried (or married, even) people having sex on the screen.  There is an entire *mentality *that accompanies it, of objectification and oftentimes humiliation, lust, and the like.  _The actors being married or not married wouldn't change those things._
> 
> The point being that Christians have to be discerning in what we emulate and discern the spirit that is behind it.  I think what happens sometimes is we latch onto things and then say, "Well, I'm a Christian, so when I do x,y, and z" it's automatically different, not realizing that it's really not.



The spirit and mentality behind us doing anything thing can make the difference. I totally agree. I don't think we have to christianize anything.

I don't think poll dancing needs christianizing, just like the waltz doesn't need christianizing, nor the samba, electric slide,  or line dancing. We electric slide up in church hahahahaha...but I could also electric slide at the club too...

I've salsa danced at church, but I have also salsa danced at a salsa dancing club. 

Electric slide at the club was definitely "different" from electric slide at the church. One I can't do anymore and the other the deaconesses be the ones setting off at the church and I jump right in line..hahaha. 

Now my electric slide moves at the club were different than the ones I used at church. Much more holy hahahaha. And now are the only electric slide moves I use. I don't even think the electric slide was suppose to go the route I took it...hahaha but I took it there. 

Praise God for He is a deliverer.

Now some folks could be shocked and appalled  (sp) that we are doing the electric slide. But, we are having a Holy Ghost good time in the Lord. I usually don't get to dance in the line though, because I'm usually singing but we all do our dance in the Lord. 

Now we haven't Christianized the electric slide it's just a dance..a form of expression.


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## aribell (Mar 18, 2009)

As far as sexiness goes, my own rule is that I skip anything that is designed to draw attention to my body in a sexually alluring way.  And also in general trying to look _too_ good as a way of drawing attention to myself.  That's pride.

But I get the sexy attitude that OP's dh was talking about.  Isn't that what we want?  A man to be drawn in by _all_ of who you are, not just the physical part.


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## aribell (Mar 18, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> Electric slide at the club was definitely "different" from electric slide at the church. One I can't do anymore and the other the deaconesses be the ones setting off at the church and I jump right in line..hahaha.
> 
> Now my electric slide moves at the club were different than the ones I used at church. Much more holy hahahaha. And now are the only electric slide moves I use. I don't even think the electric slide was suppose to go the route I took it...hahaha but I took it there.
> 
> ...


 
lol, I've *never *seen the electric slide be sexy in any kind of way...

...I'm curious now...

As far as dance forms go, I think the issue with the pole dancing was not about pole dancing in and of itself, as a sport, but (pole dancing + sex) and the connotations it raises in people's minds.  I don't think anyone is saying that dance forms are inherently bad...but I also don't think anyone would put a pole in a church, no matter how artful it might be.


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Girl Ive seen and heard of terrible accidents. Its so true. They have two main rules: If you choose to wear the heels, they have to have quarter size heels or larger (they help make spins less awkward to do and no stilletos, this aint your bedroom) and NO LOTION OR OIL BEFORE OR DURING CLASS. Stay ashy for your safety. Its messes up the pole and when you go to spin, beware of the flying dancer....or falling depends on what your doing. To do advance tricks, besides alot of strength, your skin needs to make contact with the pole unless your that good and strong (which takes alot of work). For the pretty tricks, you'll be hands and legs free sometimes and the only thing holding you up it your abs, back of knee, or armpit against the pole. Very tricky stuff but super fun.



That's a SHAME! I would probably laugh if I saw that though..but only because I react badly to really sad stuff.   

How haven't you fallen? I have to put lotion on or ashy-ness will be very apparent.


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 18, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> lol, I've *never *seen the electric slide be sexy in any kind of way...
> 
> ...I'm curious now...



And trust me you don't want to see it..I looked likea complete fool. I know the Lord was like..I need to find a way to get her on video tape so she can see this mess after I deliver her...

I'm still waiting for a tape to pop up somewhere. 

Even though, in college my friends and I had strict rules never NEVER to get caught on tape when we were out at the club. Hahaha! That's how you know you doing wrong!  What a shame!


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> That's a SHAME! I would probably laugh if I saw that though..but only because *I react badly to really sad stuff.*
> 
> How haven't you fallen? I have to put lotion on or ashy-ness will be very apparent.


 
Thats like my sister. She laughs at people fall. I tend turn around and leave the room.Its terrible.

I am smart. It the pole feels slippery, wipe it with windex. If your hands feel sweaty, spray alcohol on it and rub your hands together. They should have this for you at the studio already, should anyway... My rule of thumb if when my feet begin to leave the ground, my hands slip a little, time to clean. I am not trying to be a pole casualty out here. Pole dancing hurts but you get used to pole burn, hitting body parts against the pole in painful ways, etc...but when you master a move, oh the sweet victory.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

If tapes surfaced on me, ! Only God is my judge now...


TrustMeLove said:


> And trust me you don't want to see it..I looked likea complete fool. I know the Lord was like..I need to find a way to get her on video tape so she can see this mess after I deliver her...
> 
> I'm still waiting for a tape to pop up somewhere.
> 
> Even though, in college my friends and I had strick rules never NEVER to get caught on tape when were out at the club. Hahaha! That's how you know you doing wrong!  What a shame!


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## TrustMeLove (Mar 18, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> lol, I've *never *seen the electric slide be sexy in any kind of way...
> 
> ...I'm curious now...
> 
> As far as dance forms go, I think the issue with the pole dancing was not about pole dancing in and of itself, as a sport, but (pole dancing + sex) and the connotations it raises in people's minds.  I don't think anyone is saying that dance forms are inherently bad...*but I also don't think anyone would put a pole in a church, no matter how artful it might be*.



True! Neither would a rope hanging from a ceiling for the circus sole (sp) folks. Nor would a balance beam. Most stuff like that doesn't. 

However, the art of poll dancing was the issue at hand. It's connected in most peoples mindsd with strippers and sex and therefore not holy and Christians shouldn't participate in such forms of fitness or dance because they are less known than the other. Find another form of exercise. 

Have you seen any fitness poll dancing videos? I'm sorry that stuff looks FUN!  It looks hard and will take a certain level of fitness but fun. 

I use to do that stuff as a kid. Swinging around a poll. Climbing the poll..hanging upside down. Hahaha! I could only wish to do that these days.


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## aribell (Mar 18, 2009)

TrustMeLove said:


> True! Neither would a rope hanging from a ceiling for the circus sole (sp) folks. Nor would a balance beam. Most stuff like that doesn't.


 
For completely different reasons! 



TrustMeLove said:


> Have you seen any fitness poll dancing videos? I'm sorry that stuff looks FUN! It looks hard and will take a certain level of fitness but fun.


 
Yeah, I have, I'm sure it is fun...well, one of the vids was distinctively more "sporty" than the other, so it varies.  Sure there's a difference between fitness dancing and the strip club.  But since the first post about it mentioned the bedroom and feeling sexy, in light of the theme of the thread overall, pole dancing in a sexually provocative way was the implication, even if that was unintended.  It's not like "fitness pole dancing" is as common as football.  Not a big deal...


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

Can I be bold here?

I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but..after reading it last night, I was awakened at 4am to comment here.  After prayer, here I am

I think this is a good thread..thanks, OP.  I've read everyone's responses and its always interesting to see how people interact...those that agree and those that disagree.  It's important for people to do this...especially believers in Jesus!

However....we must always remember to do it in a spirit of love.

Those of us who are the "older women" whom the bible tells us to "teach the younger women", need to understand that we must teach them without judgement.  Honestly, there has been alot of judgement going on in this thread and it needs to stop...seriously.

Pole dancing, belly dancing, etc...if that's what a woman who is a believer desires to do for her husband, then from what I remember the bible saying is that "the marriage bed is undefiled." We can sit behind our computer screens and say 'oh chile, you shouldn't be doing this or that' but that's their choice and if its wrong, the Holy Spirit knows how to bring correction to them in it.  If they choose NOT to hear from the Holy Spirit regarding it, then its on them.  We are suppose to teach the younger women, but if it causes them to build walls, then what did we really teach them and what have they learned?

Some would say that being on a hair forum as a believer is vain.  Others would say that being in the makeup forum and talking about eyeshadow and blush, etc. is also vain.  I say...I go to those forums cause I like my hair to look good and I like to wear makeup because it makes me look pretty...for me first and then my husband.  Most times, I don't wear makeup but when I do...watch out now!

There are a few christian women on this very site that does belly dancing...soooooo, they are whorish or ungodly because they do?  Ummmm...I don't think so.  These women are full of the Holy Spirit and are empowered to do the work of the ministry....powerful I say!

Coming out and thrashing people for what they do, without teaching them in love is wrong.  This is my humble opinion.  You may even think that what you said is in a spirit of love, but when you look at it from my end....I don't see it.  The young lady that spoke about her pole dancing for her husband, I'm sure thought she could come into a forum with other women who are believers, and share something about herself that she doesn't see anything wrong with.  Well, she now sees that she can't share everything....even with women who are in a Christian Forum!  Now, I can see that I had better not share some things that dh and I teach to our married couples cause ya'll would be foaming at the mouth...and what we teach is blessed...straight from the heart of the Father!

If we are going to be teachers, we must be careful of how we teach...we are going to be held accountable to a higher degree.  I'm not a perfect person...by far, but I do know on sensitive subjects like this, I try to teach not with a rod of iron, but in a spirit of gentleness, humbleness, meekness and love....the Fruit of the Spirit in activation is powerful!

I'm sure to get lots of heat about this...but, its ok.    But, I'm hopeful that we can agree to disagree with a spirit of love and with a heart of learning.  

In all our getting, get understanding!

Loving all of you with the love of the Lord!

Blessings...always!


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## neenzmj (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice&Wavy:

Let me just give you an enormous round of applause!  I was up around 3:00 this morning (allergy issues), but this post was in my mind as well.  You spoke the truth in love, and I so appreciate it.






Nice & Wavy said:


> Can I be bold here?
> 
> I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but..after reading it last night, I was awakened at 4am to comment here.  After prayer, here I am
> 
> ...


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## EbonyHairedPrincess (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm saved and I want to be viewed as sexy.  I am a married woman and I totally want my husband sexually attracted to me.  I appreciate the physical beauty God blessed me with and I enhance it with hair products, well fitting clothing, make up and jewelry and diet and exercise.  If someone else views me as "sexy" so be it, but I totally push to be physically attractive (aka sexy) not slutty or whorish or raunchy or vulgar or revealing.


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## momi (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Can I be bold here?
> 
> I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but..after reading it last night, I was awakened at 4am to comment here. After prayer, here I am
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the gentle rebuke Wavy!  I have re-read my posts to make sure that I felt I could still stand by them without conviction.  

Truth in love?  We should speak the truth in love, but the bible also tells us to cry loud and spare not (Isaiah 58).  We are also admonished to mark them who preach a gospel that is contrary to the authentic gospel (Romans 16).

I admit that I tend to fall in the latter camp - primarily because it is so much foolishness going on in the world and I am so tired of us (Christians) trying to ride the fence.

I wholeheartedly (sp) agree with you though on the older women teaching the younger women.   Growing up there was always grandmas, aunties, play-mamas around that were strong in the faith to learn from. These days - not so much.


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

momi said:


> Thanks for the gentle rebuke Wavy! I have re-read my posts to make sure that I felt I could still stand by them without conviction.
> 
> *Truth in love? We should speak the truth in love, but the bible also tells us to cry loud and spare not (Isaiah 58). We are also admonished to mark them who preach a gospel that is contrary to the authentic gospel (Romans 16).*
> 
> ...


Hi momi,  if the 'gentle rebuke' applied to you, and you received it, then...praise the Lord!  My intent with this post was general, as you can see.

I totally understand with the content of the scripture you have given above, and it certainly can apply here...however I can also see it applied to our everyday speech...even here on the forum!  

This brings me to the story of the woman that was caught in adultry.  Jesus first dealt with the peeping toms, then when it was just He and her alone, He asked her "woman, where are your accusers?"  She replied "they are not here Lord."  He didn't judge her...He said to her "neither do I accuse you, go and sin no more!

May your day be glorious today!


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## Renewed1 (Mar 18, 2009)

Well said Nice and Wavy and Thank you.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

I took the advice of some and prayed and ask God to search my heart about my intentions for doing it. Pole dance is just one of the many forms of dance I love. Its all beautiful to me. You may see whores and sin but I see beauty and God-given grace and talent. My goal, sorry to disappoint you guys, is not to have a show for my husband but if he wants to see and I feel comfortable then sure. My goal is to have a dance studio in my home and when I become advanced in a studio, I can stop going (aka paying them my money) to do pole, salsa, belly, hip hop, interpretive, etc...all in the comfort of my home. Dance is my therapy, I dont pick it and choose. Its my favorite form of self-expression...keyword MY. To each there own and if God believes that my dancing brings him dishonor then He knows where to reach me. 

But above all, thank you to those for your admonishment, I am sure you meant well and I wanted to share what you believe is right. Thank you to those who supported me as well.

Nice & Wavy is right however that will probably be the last time I share intimate details about my life.  I first came into this forum sharing about my discussion not to date, and court only as I believe this is God's will for his children, especially his daughters. I stand firm that dating is destructive. Its a new system implemented less than a century ago and the carnage its left behind is unbelievable. Marriages in ruin, children without fathers, std rate through the roof, co-habitation....etc...Its a dangerous game. However, many may have felt attacked by what I said because, in the dating world, they found love or they dont believe God finds anything wrong with it. I never tried to condemn their acts. I was even attacked for sharing my story (what are the odds). If youre a dater and thats what you like, go for it. If someone asked me about it, I shared my belief on it and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. I wasnt there to lay down the rod on ladies dating. One of my favorite quotes: "When the student is ready the teacher appears." I used to do it myself so I understand the allure. But I share to teach a better way (a God given way) in my opinion and let the Holy Spirit have a conversation with those which is a seed was planted.

But in all honesty, really ladies, we will NEVER see the world as it is but all as we are. We are shaped by our experiences. Therefore two people can look at the same thing and see two different things. Two may look at the empty tomb of Jesus...one saw a thief stealing the body and tells the world...the other saw a risen Savior....perspection is powerful.


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## Misshairdiva (Mar 18, 2009)

I am so glad OP posted this. 
Here was my delema..
I used to go to a church where all the ladies dressed very modest. VERY. They just looked like a bunch of plain Janes. Well, everyone but ME! I would look at the men that these women were with and they would dress to the nines! The men would be looking all sharp, the women all homely. I would go to Bible study in my BabyPhat clothes, (mind you they stylish but were not tight) and the women would be looking at me sideways, because my face was made up and I had stylish clothing on. I soo tried to fit in. I started buying big long skirts like they wore, and shirts that were way too big. And I was MISERABLE! I was like THIS IS NOT ME! I AM flashy. That's me! I am stylish! That's me. And this is how God made ME! I then stopped going to that church and found another church where I could still praise the Lord and show up at Bible study looking stylish and feeling accepted. Its funny because I had talked to another lady who left the church because she felt the same way. Mind you I am NOT talking about tight clothing. Just stylish. It was like a double standard. The men in the church would have nice clothes, and all the women were looking homely. 
Do I think you can be saved and sexy? Yes. Not slutty. But sexy, alluring whatever you want to call it. 
Most men, when they see a woman, they are looking at the physical first. Even in the Bible. They dont say, "hey, see that woman, she looks very smart, whatever just fill in the blank." First they like what they see, then the want to get to know the woman. 
One that note.. I used to sit in church and wonder what these womens husbands think about their looks. Did they all look so homely when they met? Or, did they just decide not to focus on their looks when they got married? I would never want to let myself go like that. Looking all plain Jane. I want my husband to be at work and to WANT to come home to his sexy good looking wife!


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I took the advice of some and prayed and ask God to search my heart about my intentions for doing it. Pole dance is just one of the many forms of dance I love. Its all beautiful to me. You may see whores and sin but I see beauty and God-given grace and talent. My goal, sorry to disappoint you guys, is not to have a show for my husband but if he wants to see and I feel comfortable then sure. My goal is to have a dance studio in my home and when I become advanced in a studio, I can stop going (aka paying them my money) to do pole, salsa, belly, hip hop, interpretive, etc...all in the comfort of my home. Dance is my therapy, I dont pick it and choose. Its my favorite form of self-expression...keyword MY. To each there own and if God believes that my dancing brings him dishonor then He knows where to reach me.
> 
> But above all, thank you to those for your admonishment, I am sure you meant well and I wanted to share what you believe is right. Thank you to those who supported me as well.
> 
> ...


Awesome post!


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

neenzmj said:


> Nice&Wavy:
> 
> Let me just give you an enormous round of applause! I was up around 3:00 this morning (allergy issues), but this post was in my mind as well. You spoke the truth in love, and I so appreciate it.


Humbly....thank you!


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 18, 2009)

I think it's largely an interpretation of definitions, femininity and sensuality.  Our sexes carry with them a certain type of sexual attraction.  It could be our eyes, hair, strength of muscles, softness of the skin, many things.  We are created to mate with the opposite sex and form families.  It's a microcosm, this family of G-d.  Thing is, we imitate G-d's plan in faithfulnes to our families.  G-d doesn't have relations with us spiritually and leave us for future disinterest. 

IMHO, sensualness is that which leads one to sexual desire only.  It's devoid of committment of a relationship.  It's not  about finding that mate and communicating with them on many levels for life.  Overt displays of sensuality tempt for the physical sexual experience only.  So, yes, I think you can be "sexy"/feminine and religious because by default, by our makeup, we are created to be sexually attracted to each other to be fruitful and multiply.  But G-d's design is being fruitful in marriage.  I don't think being overtly _sensua_l and religious work well together.  It's a compromise to be tempting someone to engage in sex with you while pretending to display moral uprightness.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 18, 2009)

Oh boy, this is taking a turn and I'm only page 4!  I see another thread coming.  So, what's g-dly sex?  What's allowable between husband and wife?  Anal, vaginal only, felatio, missionary only?  No poles, negligee's, lights on, lights off, through a hole in the sheet, totally naked, praying while performing one's "duties?"  What's g-dly in marriage and what is not?


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## neenzmj (Mar 18, 2009)

Misshairdiva:  I feel you totally!  You have captured a major portion of something that I am very passionate about.  I definitely believe that I have a responsibility not to tempt my brothers by what I wear, but at the same time, I don't want to run around wearing a potato sack!  I believe the key (as with everything) is balance.  *My best tool for balance*: a full-length mirror.  I wish more women would use them more.  If I step in front of that mirror and feel convicted, I change up the outfit (no matter how cute I think it is) OR I find another way to wear it that doesn't have quite so much "emphasis."  



Misshairdiva said:


> I am so glad OP posted this.
> Here was my delema..
> I used to go to a church where all the ladies dressed very modest. VERY. They just looked like a bunch of plain Janes. Well, everyone but ME! I would look at the men that these women were with and they would dress to the nines! The men would be looking all sharp, the women all homely. I would go to Bible study in my BabyPhat clothes, (mind you they stylish but were not tight) and the women would be looking at me sideways, because my face was made up and I had stylish clothing on. I soo tried to fit in. I started buying big long skirts like they wore, and shirts that were way too big. And I was MISERABLE! I was like THIS IS NOT ME! I AM flashy. That's me! I am stylish! That's me. And this is how God made ME! I then stopped going to that church and found another church where I could still praise the Lord and show up at Bible study looking stylish and feeling accepted. Its funny because I had talked to another lady who left the church because she felt the same way. Mind you I am NOT talking about tight clothing. Just stylish. It was like a double standard. The men in the church would have nice clothes, and all the women were looking homely.
> Do I think you can be saved and sexy? Yes. Not slutty. But sexy, alluring whatever you want to call it.
> ...


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## Ramya (Mar 18, 2009)

I encourage everyone to continue sharing. I think we all have something to learn from each other. 

*prettyfaceANB*: I dance as well. I love to dance. I don't pole dance lol but I do dance. I've done belly dancing, salsa, ballroom, ballet, jazz, hip hop ect. and for me it helps to calm my mind and re energize. It's a major part of my life too. We are all not going to agree on everything. But sharing about our lives helps to open up a dialogue which will challenge us all to truly looks inside and think about our motives for things and what God wants us to do. If we all stop sharing the Christian Forum will end. There would be no need to fellowship and discuss among each other if we were all of one mind. Challenge is a GOOD thing. It can reconfirm what we already know and believe, give us different perspectives and also convict us about our actions. 

With that said let us not come here with an argumentative and combative spirit but with an open mind and blameless heart so that we ALL may learn from one another.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

Thank you for your post and your understanding. I also understand that challenge is good and sharing helps to open the minds of all. I wont stop sharing just maybe things that are a little dear to me, and yes dance is one of those things. Many believe I gotten beat the Jesus into these ladies. We are commanded to show the fruit of the spirit and most of us flame throwing forget that...










alabama said:


> I encourage everyone to continue sharing. I think we all have something to learn from each other.
> 
> *prettyfaceANB*: I dance as well. I love to dance. I don't pole dance lol but I do dance. I've done belly dancing, salsa, ballroom, ballet, jazz, hip hop ect. and for me it helps to calm my mind and re energize. It's a major part of my life too. We are all not going to agree on everything. But sharing about our lives helps to open up a dialogue which will challenge us all to truly looks inside and think about our motives for things and what God wants us to do. If we all stop sharing the Christian Forum will end. There would be no need to fellowship and discuss among each other if we were all of one mind. Challenge is a GOOD thing. It can reconfirm what we already know and believe, give us different perspectives and also convict us about our actions.
> 
> With that said let us not come here with an argumentative and combative spirit but with an open mind and blameless heart so that we ALL may learn from one another.


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## Aveena (Mar 18, 2009)

I really needed this thread in my life.  Talk about perfect timing.


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## neenzmj (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm really glad we were able to have this discussion.  It's been on my heart a long time and I hesitated to post it, but I believe we become more united as women by tackling what can be some rather touchy issues.


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

I learned this from my Mentor (Spiritual Mother).

Sexy in the Lord's terms do not match how the world uses the word sexy.  However, when one's hears this word, automatically the world's ear is tuned in and not God's.

Basically, sexy means, being 'attractive' in your gender.

In My Personal Experience:   

There is an undeniable distinction that a woman has that no man can master (some may imitate, but can never master).  

And there is an undeniable distinction that a man has that no woman can master.  (And yes, there are women who imitate men or have taken on certain mannerisms, but she is still not a man).

As a woman I am sexy inside and out; every female attribute of my being, exudes my womanly sexual appeal, with or without makeup and without exposing my anatomy.   

I am a woman, I am aware of my feminity, I am aware of my female attributes, I am aware of my difference from any other and that indeed makes me 'sexy'. 

Sexy doesn't mean raunchy, or slutty nor an advertisement for playboy magazine.   It means being a woman, who is totally female in every way that God has gifted her...sexy pure which draws her man to her as a bear is drawn to honey.     

The sexiest woman of all,  is one who loves the Lord.     For He has instilled within her something that no one else like her will ever have.  :heart2:


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! Why did I just instantly feel sexier reading your post?


Shimmie said:


> I learned this from my Mentor (Spiritual Mother).
> 
> Sexy in the Lord's terms do not match how the world uses the word sexy. However, when one's hears this word, automatically the world's ear is tuned in and not God's.
> 
> ...


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Can I be bold here?
> 
> I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but..after reading it last night, I was awakened at 4am to comment here. After prayer, here I am
> 
> ...


 

Hbr 13:4
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Hbr&c=13&v=4&t=KJV#4Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. 

Gal 5:19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 







The scripture means sex is for marriage only not anything married people do is undefiled. We are to KEEP the marriage bed undefiled. The scriptures speak on uncleaness, sodomy and lasciviousness and other acts that are not to be committed by ANYONE married or not.

As far as speaking the truth in love. That does not mean that we are to hold our tongues if it may hurt someones feeling but it means to have the right intent of heart, to help and not to spitefully harm. It doesn't mean that we have to add terms of endearment when speaking. It doesn't mean that the receiver is going to jump for joy at the Word but in the context of the forum one may hear and make a better choice.

 Seeing Jesus is our first example let's use His interaction with some. Jesus ALWAYS spoke the truth in love correct?

*Jhn 8:44*Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. 

Now, to some that would not be speaking the truth in love BUT Jesus is actually doing that very thing. He is speaking the truth in with boldness, without gall and without flattering words but truth because He loved them. 1Th 2:5For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God [is] witness: 

We can't do what the world does and then condemn them for doing the same. If it's ok for saints to use the pole then it's ok for sinners. If Christians can use them then there's nothing wrong with strippers using them. When the world calls us hypocrites they are not always lying.

As far as judging, that deserves it's on thread along with other words that have been improperly used along with self-righteousness and others.

God made us beautiful and for our beauty to be looked upon and appreciated and we can admire the beauty of one another without thinking of them in a sexual way outside of marriage with them. It is tempting, God is good at His job and has made some extremely attractive people. I know I've had to check myself and have even been checked from doing it even posting about it on the board.

 I most definitely think of my husband in a sexual way,he is VERY sexy to me. I also love my husband and I do not expose him to ungodliness in our bed and vice versa. We have a wonderful, fulfilling intimate life but we do have restrictions. My husband honors my body and I his and there are things that we just don't do. We honor God and we keep our bed undefiled by sodomy, and unclean acts.


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Hbr 13:4
> Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
> 
> Gal 5:19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
> ...


Part of your post I agree with and part of it I disagree.

We can agree to disagree...amen?

I said what I needed to say and I'm going to leave it that way...but, please everyone...continue!

Blessings...always!


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## PinkPebbles (Mar 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! Why did I just instantly feel sexier reading your post?


 
I know right....!!!! We love you Shimmie .


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I learned this from my Mentor (Spiritual Mother).
> 
> Sexy in the Lord's terms do not match how the world uses the word sexy. However, when one's hears this word, automatically the world's ear is tuned in and not God's.
> 
> ...


Just for this post, I'm going home and be 'super sexy' for my husband!


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! Why did I just instantly feel sexier reading your post?


That's because you know who you are in Christ Jesus and you are a loosed woman in Him, indeed.... 

So go head, loose woman.... you are free and Godly sexy.   :reddancer:


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## pebbles (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Can I be bold here?
> 
> I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but..after reading it last night, I was awakened at 4am to comment here.  After prayer, here I am
> 
> ...



You are absolutely, 100% right!! Just awesome!!


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## pebbles (Mar 18, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I learned this from my Mentor (Spiritual Mother).
> 
> Sexy in the Lord's terms do not match how the world uses the word sexy.  However, when one's hears this word, automatically the world's ear is tuned in and not God's.
> 
> ...



What a beautiful post! I love you guys!!


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Just for this post, I'm going home and be 'super sexy' for my husband!


Awwww, he's already caught up in his beautiful 'sexy' wife.  He knows the deal.  

Precious Wavy, I just saw your post 'quoted' and I going back to read it.   I haven't read this thread yet,  I only responded to the first post by our OP.    

But when I saw 'Belly Dancing' in your post, my thought was,  OH!    That's me.... :blush3:  My 'shimmie' started motorizing....  

I gotta go back and read this entire thread.    

Lawd a' mercy, I gotta get some scrupples.    But I'll still give Hula, Tahitian and Belly Dance lessons for free.


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

pebbles said:


> What a beautiful post! I love you guys!!


We love you too, beautiful Pebbles ...


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

PinkPebbles said:


> I know right....!!!! We love you Shimmie .


 
We love you too, Petty PinkPebbles...    :Rose:


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

I love you guys!

ETA: We're all saying it huh...didnt realize....lol


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Can I be bold here?
> 
> I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but..after reading it last night, I was awakened at 4am to comment here. After prayer, here I am
> 
> ...


   Beautiful, as always.   And it's Truth!  Well spoken and in love....which you do, totally always.  :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I love you guys!
> 
> ETA: We're all saying it huh...didnt realize....lol


 
We love you too....


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

May I share this?   I hope it to be a blessing to someone. 

I am a Dancer.   

I'm not married....yet  

I am skilled with Belly Dance, Hula, Polynesian and Tahitian.

Well skilled    Very well.  With technique, not raunch.

Ummmm, yeah    I can 'wiggle' my hips, that's why I'm called 'Shimmie'.  

However, it is the way that one 'presents' these Dances that makes them right or wrong.    

Trust me.  I've seen it all... 

*I will not testify with a lie,* that God has lead me to learn these Dances, 

*Neither... *

*Will I testify* *with a lie,* that the Holy Spirit has placed it in my heart to share them with married or soon to be married women.  But I will teach them to any wife who wants to learn.  Just to have fun with/for her husband.  

I Dance because I love it; it's fun.  It's keeps me in shape and it keeps me extremely young inside and out.      And I love the glamour of it, from top to bottom.  

My wardrobe is full of beautiful colors, with gowns draped in Swarovski crystals, rhinestones, sequins, stones, fringe in all lengths....... direct from my friends in India, Egypt, Hawaii, and ............ a shop in Washington, DC.   

Yep!     It's there!  The glamour, the hype, the world, the expertise, the 'tease',  the excitement, the thrill, it's all there.   

*HOWEVER, in all of this.....*

There is nothing more beautiful than a woman who presents her feminity to her husband........ just for him and no one else.   

And it's all in how she chooses to please her husband or just to have some fun with him.   No other woman knows her husband better than his wife.   A wife knows the depth and breadth of her husband; his heartbeat, his pulse, 

His rhythm, in all aspects of his being 

His measure of endurance and his barometric gauge in temperature and in his abilities as well as his _agilities_.  

Afterall, she taught him.   

Her touch, her presence, her love for him, her smile, the smell of her hair...just washed; the crisp clean smell of fresh linens.   She feeds him morsels of his favorite food with her hand. and literally ...... with one small offering  she has him eating from *her* hand.   

And to a man, this is more 'sexually' appealing to him than any Dancer, any costume, any glamour or sparkle or blitz there is. 

For in her quiet beauty, her message to him is "Welcome Home, my love.    She has made his home a sweet and fragrant habitation for which he alone can dwell within and forget the cares of the outside world and demons which try to drain him of his energies and his control over life's situations.    

I'm trying to post a Balance to this thread and an honest one. 

Dancing for your husbands is wonderful and if you so choose, do it and have fun with it.  

But don't fall into 'bondage' that if you don't that you are missing something or cheating him out of any marriage pleasures.   In Marriage, sexuality goes far beyond the surface senses.    

Look at Hollywood.  Out of all of the beauty, glamour and blitze and glitze, yet it doesn't have the 'staying' power of true love (be they straight or gay, which is not true love).  

As women we don't have the time to be glammed up all the time or Dancing all around the house.   As much as I love the Art, there are days when I just don't feel like being a Dancer.  I still have a family and friends who need me in other areas of this life we live.   I'm still in Ministry which is my first love.

True sexiness is within the soul which reaches the soul of your husband.    

Hence the Word of God:

_"Deep Calls Unto Deep"_ 

Be happy with your husbands.  Just follow the course of your hearts and not feel bound to be a pole dancer just to get his attention, or a half naked stripper, etc.   These are the whipped creams, the Cool Whips of marriage.    The cake is what you really want to bake and have hot from the oven, just for him.  

And that's the key; whatever we do, 'just for him' makes us the sexiest woman alive to our husband.

Love and blessings and lots of 'Shimmies'


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## hurricane (Mar 18, 2009)

The Flesh wants to be sexy. Our goal is the be like Christ. Now you know we do not serve a sexy God. ( LOL ). The bible teaches us to moderately adorned. 1 Tim 2:9.
Now what you wear at home around DH is between the two of you.

We are daughters of a King, think about it. We are crowned with his glory. His glory and the love of Him on the inside makes us BEAUTIFUL. And with this Beauty, you will dress accordingly. 

Sometimes I want to be sexy ( FLESH ) then I get unconfortable ( THE HOLY SPIRIT ) and go into another direction.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 18, 2009)

hurricane said:


> The Flesh wants to be sexy. Our goal is the be like Christ. Now you know we do not serve a sexy God. ( LOL ). The bible teaches us to moderately adorned. 1 Tim 2:9.
> Now what you wear at home around DH is between the two of you.
> 
> We are daughters of a King, think about it. We are crowned with his glory. His glory and the love of Him on the inside makes us BEAUTIFUL. And with this Beauty, you will dress accordingly.
> ...


 
I think they're distinguishing from sensually dressed and "sexy" as equating with femininity. I know there is quite a bit of puritan mindset in American christianity. Now, before someone (else) here gets their panties in a bunch about that statement, think about it. We've been taught that sex is dirty and it is not. Kosher Sex? Preachers who advise congregants to go home and get busy? Raises eyebrows here lol then people inch towards it. We serve a G-d who made male and female genitalia, sex as it occurs, errogenous zones etc....Praise G-d!!!!! ....looks in on it while we're doing it and if the folks are married, He's well-pleased . We serve a G-d who created "sexy" women for their mates. There is a difference between creating unlawful sexual arousal either in oneself or in others.








 Why???  Just why wear a pink potato sack?




Sexy, yet Muslim modest


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 18, 2009)

I don't equate being feminine with being sexy. They are many women who are very feminine who do not exude "sexy". I see women and can see them as holy and beautiful but if I pick up "sexy".........

There are times when DH will say,"Wow, you look beautiful today" denoting how I look to him, what I'm wearing or maybe how my hair is done or something and there are times when he'll say," You look sooo sexy" and I know exactly what's on his mind because I wanted it there. I know how to be feminine and I know how to be sexy, they are not the same. I always aim at feminine 24/7. Sexy is reserved for DH.


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

pebbles said:


> You are absolutely, 100% right!! Just awesome!!


Thank you, sis...I appreciate you and your post!


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Beautiful, as always. And it's Truth! Well spoken and in love....which you do, totally always. :Rose:


Thank you, sis....I so appreciate you and your words of love!



Shimmie said:


> May I share this? I hope it to be a blessing to someone.
> 
> I am a Dancer.
> 
> ...


You never fail to BREAK.IT.DOWN.!!!

Whipped Cream....hot cake?

Hmmmm........

Chile....


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## Ramya (Mar 18, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I don't equate being feminine with being sexy. They are many women who are very feminine who do not exude "sexy". I see women and can see them as holy and beautiful but if I pick up "sexy".........
> 
> There are times when DH will say,"Wow, you look beautiful today" denoting how I look to him, what I'm wearing or maybe how my hair is done or something and there are times when he'll say," You look sooo sexy" and I know exactly what's on his mind because I wanted it there. I know how to be feminine and I know how to be sexy, they are not the same. I always aim at feminine 24/7. Sexy is reserved for DH.



Yes I agree. I love to be feminine. I am a woman distinctly different from a man. i embrace these differences. I don't wear pants b/c I don't feel feminine in them and I don't look my best in them. It was a personal choice to do so. I'm going to save 'sexy' for my future husband.


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thank you, sis....I so appreciate you and your words of love!
> 
> 
> You never fail to BREAK.IT.DOWN.!!!
> ...


 
     

Girl, a wife can have the sweetest 'icing' (outter decor) as she wants.  But without the cake, it has nothing to lay upon.  It's just sits there in the bowl and eventually melts or gets crusty around the edges.  

After awhile it's no longer spreadable.  Whip cream is full of air; it disappears .... fast.   That's why a woman has to know about baking cakes for her husband.   Pound cakes, even.  Have something solid in the mix .... Yep   The mix of her marriage that is.


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

alabama said:


> Yes I agree. I love to be feminine. I am a woman distinctly different from a man. i embrace these differences. I don't wear pants b/c I don't feel feminine in them and I don't look my best in them. It was a personal choice to do so. I'm going to save 'sexy' for my future husband.


I'm a 'girly girl' to the max.   I love lace, all kinds of lace.  Silks and soft satin; and sheer soft chiffons.  

I have a zillion scarfs. Because of the gym, I wear sweatsuits everyday (velvet ones ) and I have to have a pretty silk or satin blend scarf draped around my collar, just to add that feminine touch.  :reddancer:


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I think they're distinguishing from sensually dressed and "sexy" as equating with femininity. I know there is quite a bit of puritan mindset in American christianity. Now, before someone (else) here gets their panties in a bunch about that statement, think about it.
> 
> *We've been taught that sex is dirty and it is not. Kosher Sex?*
> 
> ...


Hilarious "Kosher Sex"   

But you're telling the truth;    For years 'sex' was not a topic to be discussed openly (or privately).  Women were told to 'do their duty' with their husbands.  "Duty" would have caused me to rebel.   

God's word plainly says in Genesis 3, to Eve, _"Your desire shall be unto your husband." _ And God was speaking of SEX, not duty.  Desire and Duty are not synonomous...  

The word speaks further, "And Adam 'KNEW' his wife (Eve).  He 'uncovered' her.  He made love to her and they bore children as the evidence thereof.  

The word of God, via the Apostle Paul, admonishes husbands and wives that their bodies are not their own and that they are not to withhold their bodies, their sexual intimacy from one another, for it may cause the 'other' to sin.  It can't get any plainer than that.

God even says that if a man or woman cannot contain themselves sexually, that it is better to marry than to burn in lust/passion. 

All of this is self evident that enjoying sex in marriage is not taboo; hence being 'sexy' (in a Kosher way, ) is not taboo.  

Praise God.... 

Food for thought:

We keep it all in good perspective, that's all.


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Girl, a wife can have the sweetest 'icing' (outter decor) as she wants. But without the cake, it has nothing to lay upon. It's just sits there in the bowl and eventually melts or gets crusty around the edges.
> 
> After awhile it's no longer spreadable. Whip cream is full of air; it disappears .... fast.  That's why a woman has to know about baking cakes for her husband. Pound cakes, even. Have something solid in the mix .... Yep  The mix of her marriage that is.


Chile...the batter was mixed, cake baked and I'm full


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Chile...the batter was mixed, cake baked and I'm full


:rofl3:   You own a bakery, don't you?


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 18, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> :rofl3: You own a bakery, don't you?


...yes, I do!


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 18, 2009)

Thats what I am talking about. 

Shimmie, I am sure you'll be a joy to your husband...

These are the things I have found are not acceptable in the bedroom: 
Whoremongering - paying for sex 
Adultery - grounds to get your behind whooped
Idolatery - idol worship (i guess it happens )
Homosexuality - no orgies people im sure that includes pornography

There may be more but from all I've read this is what I can find.

Everything else is free game. Have fun!



Shimmie said:


> Hilarious "Kosher Sex"
> 
> But you're telling the truth;   For years 'sex' was not a topic to be discussed openly (or privately). Women were told to 'do their duty' with their husbands. "Duty" would have caused me to rebel.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> ...yes, I do!


 
   A'Ha! I Knew it!


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## Shimmie (Mar 18, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Thats what I am talking about.
> 
> Shimmie, I am sure you'll be a joy to your husband...
> 
> ...


 
Awww, thanks Angel.... He'll be a joy to me too.   

And I pray this wholeheartedly for you as well.  Just say, Thank you Lord Jesus, for my Godly Husband, Amen.  

I love your list.  I'm coming back tomorrow to add more to it.   

Sweet sleep and sweet dreams of your husband, PrettyFace.  

Sweet dreams to everyone 'sexy' and Kosher reading this thread.  

Shimmie is now out like a light


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## Renewed1 (Mar 19, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Oh boy, this is taking a turn and I'm only page 4!  I see another thread coming.  So, what's g-dly sex?  What's allowable between husband and wife?  Anal, vaginal only, felatio, missionary only?  No poles, negligee's, lights on, lights off, through a hole in the sheet, totally naked, praying while performing one's "duties?"  What's g-dly in marriage and what is not?




I thought the same thing when this thread made a turn.  SHEESH~~~


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## momi (Mar 19, 2009)

hurricane said:


> The Flesh wants to be sexy. Our goal is the be like Christ. Now you know we do not serve a sexy God. ( LOL ). The bible teaches us to moderately adorned. 1 Tim 2:9.
> Now what you wear at home around DH is between the two of you.
> 
> We are daughters of a King, think about it. We are crowned with his glory. His glory and the love of Him on the inside makes us BEAUTIFUL. And with this Beauty, you will dress accordingly.
> ...


 
Amen.  My husband's head is turned towards me - not because of my "sexiness" or "allure", but because of my character and desire to be more like Christ.  He has also said on many occasions that he appreciates my conduct (the way I carry myself)...

Sexy and alluring come a dime a dozen in the streets - but a woman who fears the Lord shall be praised.  In the city gates AND the sanctuary (the bedroom).


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## hurricane (Mar 19, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I think they're distinguishing from sensually dressed and "sexy" as equating with femininity. I know there is quite a bit of puritan mindset in American christianity. Now, before someone (else) here gets their panties in a bunch about that statement, think about it. We've been taught that sex is dirty and it is not. Kosher Sex? Preachers who advise congregants to go home and get busy? Raises eyebrows here lol then people inch towards it. We serve a G-d who made male and female genitalia, sex as it occurs, errogenous zones etc....Praise G-d!!!!! ....looks in on it while we're doing it and if the folks are married, He's well-pleased . We serve a G-d who created "sexy" women for their mates. There is a difference between creating unlawful sexual arousal either in oneself or in others.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


____________________________________________________________

*We have been taught alot of wrong doctrine that is true. That is why it is sooooo important for us to read our own Bibles. Proverbs 31 teaches us about the virtuous wife. This is more of an interpretation conflict. Sexy means bad to some and good to others. The Holy Spirit should be our guide.*

*Now if you really want to start something read the Song of Solomon.*


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 19, 2009)

hurricane;7374567

[B said:
			
		

> _Now if you really want to start something read the Song of Solomon._[/B]


 

I read some yesterday.....enough said...


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 19, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Hilarious "Kosher Sex"
> 
> But you're telling the truth;   For years 'sex' was not a topic to be discussed openly (or privately). Women were told to 'do their duty' with their husbands. "Duty" would have caused me to rebel.
> 
> ...


 
Rabbi Shmuley Boteach...Kosher Sex is an actual bookI've got it on my bookshelf.  He cuts through this idea that sex is off-limits to talk about and share techniques.  

M.Hy mentioned sodomy.  I think that scripture admonishing against sodomy is referring to homosexual sex.  The only ones capable of that are two males, not lesbians and not heterosexual.  But that's a technical issue.  I don't think anal sex, or "turning the tables" is sodomy.  Marriage beds remaining undefiled refers to bringing in someone else in a triangle (threesome or affairs on the side).  Kama Sutra positions, toys etc., I think they are all permissible between the couple as long as you don't ejaculate the male just for doing that and not hurting the woman, making her uncomfortable.  I think the seed has to be spent vaginally for procreative purposes.  

Sex is lovely   lololol.  It was meant to be WOWIE and Praise G-d, is sure izzz!!!!  I couldn't imagine some boring sex missionary style for 30 secs, he can't even look at you....1,2,3 and it's over, and he's praying during it?  Well, people have been known to call out G-d during lol and a host of other obscenities lol  but bland and no spice, no thanks.  As far as saying dirty words, I don't know about that issue yet.  Never heard anyone preach on that.


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## Shimmie (Mar 19, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Think about this often.
> 
> I love the Lord. He is my number one focus and all I do, I want his approval.
> 
> ...


 
OOOOOkay!   I finally read this entire thread.   And this is what I have to say about you and Pole Dancing.     

Are you ready?   























       



​
I have more to share; I'll be back.    I'm at my desk at work and need to take care of something first.  But I will be back to respond.  

  ​


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 19, 2009)

hurricane said:


> ____________________________________________________________
> 
> *We have been taught alot of wrong doctrine that is true. That is why it is sooooo important for us to read our own Bibles. Proverbs 31 teaches us about the virtuous wife. This is more of an interpretation conflict. Sexy means bad to some and good to others. The Holy Spirit should be our guide.*
> 
> *Now if you really want to start something read the Song of Solomon.*


 

Are you kidding me?  I love the Song of Solomon.  Juicy!  How would he know she tasted of honey?  Only reservation I have of anal sex, I prefer having strong sphincter control in case I'm in public and POOOOT.  That would be the only concern...maybe there are some kegels for that lolol.  But anyhoo.  Song of Solomon is great.


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## Southernbella. (Mar 19, 2009)

The only person I want to look sexy for is my husband. In general everyday life, I like to present myself as attractive, put-together, and worthy of respect. Sexy doesn't really cross my mind, although I do think sexiness can be a byproduct of looking and feeling your best, because confidence is sexy to most people.

I don't think we can control how others view us, but I do think we should think about the image we are presenting when we walk out of the house. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide. 

As for Christian marital sex, I don't believe anything goes, but I'll just leave it at that.

PrettyFaceANB, I totally get what you were saying about pole dancing. We took a pole dance lesson last year for my best friend's bachelorette party. The instructor did a routine before we started class, and I was AMAZED. I didn't see it as something sexual at all. It was feminine and beautiful. I love all forms of dance, so I was able to appreciate the grace, rhythm, and athleticism that is required. That said, the teacher wasn't booty popping or licking the pole or anything, so I'm sure her version is different than what happens at the strip club.

Anyway, this is a great thread.


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## Shimmie (Mar 19, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Are you kidding me? I love the Song of Solomon. Juicy! How would he know she tasted of honey? *Only reservation I have of anal sex, I prefer having strong sphincter control in case I'm in public and POOOOT*. That would be the only concern...maybe there are some kegels for that lolol. But anyhoo. Song of Solomon is great.


 

I have a meeting to attend here at work, but I'm coming back to share some information on this too a little later.   

I'm loving this thread..... not the anal part.


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## Shimmie (Mar 19, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Rabbi Shmuley Boteach...Kosher Sex is an actual bookI've got it on my bookshelf. He cuts through this idea that sex is off-limits to talk about and share techniques.
> 
> M.Hy mentioned sodomy. I think that scripture admonishing against sodomy is referring to homosexual sex. The only ones capable of that are two males, not lesbians and not heterosexual. But that's a technical issue. I don't think anal sex, or "turning the tables" is sodomy. Marriage beds remaining undefiled refers to bringing in someone else in a triangle (threesome or affairs on the side). Kama Sutra positions, toys etc., I think they are all permissible between the couple as long as you don't ejaculate the male just for doing that and not hurting the woman, making her uncomfortable. I think the seed has to be spent vaginally for procreative purposes.
> 
> ...


   

You are cracking me up..... 'Praying during it...."      :rofl3:    

I can't imagine.... I just cannot imagine any man praying through making love.    

But then I've never made love with a 'saved' man before....... 


Opppps, TMI.........TMI.   

That was BEFORE I was saved, sanctified full of pride in Jesus.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 19, 2009)

OMG! Thank you for the love...Men looks at the outside but God see's the heart. 



:luv2:I do it for the love of dance. Not money, stripper, being sexy, or for my future husband. I do it because it's fun. 

I've never had this sort of comroderie with women before. I think I am about to cry.




Shimmie said:


> OOOOOkay! I finally read this entire thread. And this is what I have to say about you and Pole Dancing.
> 
> Are you ready?
> 
> ...


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 19, 2009)

See its not what people think at all. They DONT teach you to be a stripper. Its fun and you get some laughs if youre with your girlfriends and the stuff they can do is amazing. Ive meet one instructor that used to be a stripper. ALL the rest, have a long history of dancing generally but no stripping. This is just another form of dance to them, like it is to me.

_As a matter of fact, pole dance and stripping is not synonymous. Strippers remove their clothes. Ive never seen that done in a studio. Pole dance requires strength and skill. And not all strippers can pole dance. Sigh! But whatever..._

Thank you. 


Southernbella. said:


> The only person I want to look sexy for is my husband. In general everyday life, I like to present myself as attractive, put-together, and worthy of respect. Sexy doesn't really cross my mind, although I do think sexiness can be a byproduct of looking and feeling your best, because confidence is sexy to most people.
> 
> I don't think we can control how others view us, but I do think we should think about the image we are presenting when we walk out of the house. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide.
> 
> ...


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 19, 2009)

If we learned to actually seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness alot of sorrow and confusion could be avoided. Seek *FIRST* not make a choice and say, "Well He didn't tell me no." Seek *FIRST* not, make the decision and say," Well, I'm still waiting on an answer and praying about it so if He tells me no, I'll stop." But *ACTUALLY* read the scripture *AND* *pray to God* *FIRST* and *WAIT* for Him to give us an answer *THEN *proceed with a decision, plan or choice. 

A simple, "Lord can DH and I do ANYTHING because we're married and our bed will be undefiled? CAN we have anal and oral sex, urinate and defecate on each other, slap each other around, choke each other out, participate in bondage and fisting, use sex toys etc?" (yes, Christians do these things) "Can I take this or that class, participate in this or that group etc.?" would be an example of seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness not doing them first and then saying,"Well it doesn't say we can't in the bible so it's ok". or "We do it and God didn't say we CAN'T do it", or "Yeah pastor said so and so but God didn't tell ME so....."

But let us seek permission from God *BEFORE *we act by reading His word and *ALSO *praying and waiting for a yes or no from God and *THEN* proceed.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 19, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> A simple, "Lord can DH and I do ANYTHING because we're married and our bed will be undefiled? CAN we have anal and oral sex, *urinate and defecate on each other, slap each other around, choke each other out, participate in bondage and fisting*, use sex toys etc?" (yes, Christians do these things) "Can I take this or that class, participate in this or that group etc.?" would be an example of seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness not doing them first and then saying,"Well it doesn't say we can't in the bible so it's ok". or "We do it and God didn't say we CAN'T do it", or "Yeah pastor said so and so but God didn't tell ME so....."


 
Sado masochism?  I'm NEVER EVER talking about that.  That's just plain gross and violent.  But vaginal sex is just as old as anal, which is just as old as oral.  I personally don't prefer anal but I'm not seeing where those who do are sinning.  I know of people who do pray about it and well, they must have gotten a 'yay' to continue with it.  Sodomy is between men.  I think who gets to determine what is appropriate in the bedroom is the husband and wife.  Consulting with G-d , sure.  But not everything is written out what is allowable or not.  One has to figure out if it is causing harm or not.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 19, 2009)

When it comes to something we think is owed or promised us from God we pray, join prayer circles, fast, stay all up in the bible, take notes and* WAIT *on our blessing. When it comes to other stuff pertaining to our actual lifestyle........ we leap first then ask for supernatural healings when it hits the fan. Seek* FIRST* the kingdom of God and *HIS *not our but *HIS **righteousness,* "Lord what do you say about this choice, plan decision," and these things will be *ADDED.*

Seek *THEN* add.


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## pebbles (Mar 19, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Sado masochism?  I'm NEVER EVER talking about that.  That's just plain gross and violent.  But vaginal sex is just as old as anal, which is just as old as oral.  *I personally don't prefer anal but I'm not seeing where those who do are sinning.  *I know of people who do pray about it and well, they must have gotten a 'yay' to continue with it.  Sodomy is between men.  *I think who gets to determine what is appropriate in the bedroom is the husband and wife. * Consulting with G-d , sure.  But not everything is written out what is allowable or not.  One has to figure out if it is causing harm or not.



Thank-you for this post! GOD is not ambiguous about what HE judges as right or wrong. If HE doesn't want it, HE states it clearly. The word of GOD says that there is nothing new under the sun, so if oral sex or anal sex between husband and wife were an abomination in the sight of the LORD, I really believe it would be written clearly and plainly for us to see.* My personal opinion* is that where the word of GOD is silent, we should be silent. But that's just *my personal opinion*, so I stay out of peoples' marriage beds.


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## Krymsonkween (Mar 19, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Are you kidding me? I love the Song of Solomon. Juicy! How would he know she tasted of honey? Only reservation I have of anal sex, I prefer having strong sphincter control in case I'm in public and POOOOT. That would be the only concern...maybe there are some kegels for that lolol. But anyhoo. Song of Solomon is great.


 

I read this and bust our laughing u gone get me fired.  I luv the Songs of Solomong also and I luv the old TD Jakes song I can't remeber the tape or cd but it was a good chistain luv song.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 19, 2009)

It is it's called sodomy and uncleaness but hey grown folks do what they do. Yet we wonder why the church can't witness to the homosexuals out of all of the lost...... We blame the sinner but won't ask God why this one group. We do what they do but it's fine for us but an abomination for them. When the world calls the church hypocrites they are not lying.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 19, 2009)

Its not wrong because they are having sex that way. Its wrong because they are of the same sex. We could say the same thing about singles and married folk like...its ok for married folk to have sex but they cant do it...Of course they cant. The bible clearly states that fornication is wrong. Just as the bible clearly states that same-sex relations is an abomination. 



Ms.Honey said:


> It is it's called sodomy and uncleaness but hey grown folks do what they do. Yet we wonder why the church can't witness to the homosexuals out of all of the lost...... We blame the sinner but won't ask God why this one group. We do what they do but it's fine for us but an abomination for them. When the world calls the church hypocrites they are not lying.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Mar 19, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> When it comes to something we think is owed or promised us from God we pray, join prayer circles, fast, stay all up in the bible, take notes and* WAIT *on our blessing. When it comes to other stuff pertaining to our actual lifestyle........ we leap first then ask for supernatural healings when it hits the fan. Seek* FIRST* the kingdom of God and *HIS *not our but *HIS **righteousness,* "Lord what do you say about this choice, plan decision," and these things will be *ADDED.*
> 
> Seek *THEN* add.


 
Of course, that's your interpretation on things.  You cannot prove by scripture that anal sex is wrong between husband and wife.


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## Southernbella. (Mar 19, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Of course, that's your interpretation on things. You cannot prove by scripture that anal sex is wrong between husband and wife.


 
I've never been interested in it, so I always just assumed it was included with sodomy in the Bible and never researched it. This is a really interesting discussion.


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## aribell (Mar 19, 2009)

I never thought that sodomy might be referring to men and women until I noticed that both homosexuality and sodomy are included in the same lists. It seemed then that if it were only referring to men that it might be repetitive since homosexuality as this identity apart from sexual relationships wasn't really a concept in Biblical times. 

Don't know, but Christianity considered a whole variety of acts to be sinful for centuries (and a large portion of the church still does).  So it's not like the argument is without well-reasoned support.  I don't know if the mentality changed because people found better reasons, or because we wanted it to.


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## Shimmie (Mar 19, 2009)

Hey!  Where the Pretty Face Pole Dancer?  

PrettyFaceANB... I'm back with something important to tell you.  Yesterday I couldn't read this entire thread so I had to print it out to read through it later.  

 As I was reading, I began to cry.   But can I tell you how much I admire the beautiful way that you have handled yourself in this thread.   My Lord, such grace you have given to everyone here...everyone.  I applaude you.   

It is a known fact that one's heart and character comes forth in their Dance or Song.   And if what you displayed in this thread is any indication of your character, then you are most definitely the most  beautiful and graceful Dancer on and off of the pole. 

My Dance Mentor (and teacher) said she knew who I was and that she could trust me, when she saw me Dance.   Her mom is an ordained  Minister and she shared that when she first saw me, she knew that I was 'the one' that she had prayed to come into her daughter's life as a spiritual sister and model for Jesus Christ to help keep her faith strong in the Dance world, which is not so pretty.    

Dancing shows who we really are inside.  And PrettyFace,  if nothing else, that pole bows down to *your* grace and elegance each time you approach it.  In other words, you have not succombed to the conceived negative depiction of the image of pole dancing.  It instead succombs to your image which is pure..  

Last night, as I was reading the papers of this thread, I was grieved and I asked the Lord to give me something for you.   Here it is.

When Jesus stood before Pilot, falsely accused.  He retained his composure.   After the trial, Pilot spoke these words: 

"I find no fault in Him."

PrettyFace, God spoke to my heart for you and gave me this to say: 

"I find no fault in you..."   :Rose:

There's more:

Each morning my cousin sends a scripture to our 'Dance' members (we're  all very close and truly love the Lord -- we start each day with the word of God via group email (10 of us ).    PrettyFace, She knows nothing about this thread.  

This is the scripture that she shared with us this morning:

_Don't jump to conclusions—there may be a perfectly good explanation for what you just saw._    (Proverbs 25:8 MSG)

PrettyFace, the 'wrong' conclusion was presumed when you shared about pole dancing.    Little angel, you've done nothing wrong.    You have not associated yourself with anything remotely with that of a stripper or the like.  All you're doing is having fun in an exercise class.  

It's not like you're carrying the pole around with you in a pole case and setting up pole shows on the street corners.  

Gee whiz,  and you're fully dressed.   The shoes are not sin.   I don't wear high, high heels because I simply can't walk in them.   I have to hold onto a wall just to move 2 steps.      Gee,  Strippers wear bras  .... umm, so do I stop wearing one because it's stripper apparel.   Shoot, I'd be arrested for using my boobs as knee pads.  

True Confession:  

I have to confess that I was introduced to pole dancing when I was 5 years old.       I was in Kindergarten.....   I was so cute ... 

We had a field trip.....





to a Fire Station.    Got cha!   

Well, they had a pole at the fire station and I was so facinated by it.   The pole was all I could think about.   It was so shiny and the brass looked like gold.   It was the hallmark of my Kindergarten experience.     So whenever I see a pole, I immediately think about the Fire House.    Strippers never come to mind.  

The 'Ariealists' at the circus shows,  as they climb and spin up and down the ropes.  They have such beauty and grace.  I love the "Cirque du Soleil".   This is how I imagine your grace and giving God the glory the entire time for what He has allowed you to do.     

You're actually showing others that poles aren't for strippers.  They are for women like you who want to keep their bodies in shape and have stamina and endurance in a fun way. 

Lastly:

PrettyFace, please don't ever feel ashamed about your gift.  If nothing else, expand it.  Learn all that you can about it.   

I've paid thousands of dollars just to be where I am in Dancing today.  I wanted to learn from the best and to learn the authentic origins of these Dances.  Anyone can shake their hips and booty, but  I decided that if I was going to perform these dances that I'd better dance them right and with class and proper technique. 

God has given me much favor where I did not have to travel to these teachers from other countries,  they came to us, instead.      

I also received God's favor with many, many free classes and I've made friends who have given me their time, beautiful costumes, and wonderful friendships.   So don't hesitate to expand and grow with this.   Enjoy it.

Please be encouraged.  I'm so proud of you.   I belong to a Dance and Yoga Studio that has a Pole Dancing class.   I've been invited to join them, but I had other classes to attend.    They have a stage and lights and a beautiful black shiny tile floor.    I'm finna to try it.     

Gee, I have hip shimmies that will put Pole Dancing to shame.  :blush3:

Once again...

http://www.familylobby.com/common/tt3133490fltt.gif  (http://www.familylobby.com)


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## pebbles (Mar 19, 2009)

^^^ Beautiful, Shimmie!


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## Shimmie (Mar 19, 2009)

pebbles said:


> ^^^ Beautiful, Shimmie!


    you too Precious Pebs....


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 19, 2009)

I am over here...Shimmie...thank you so much. 

I have been praying major about it ever since this thread started. I was wondering why do I feel guilty. Then I really have to search my motives for doing it. I found flaws I will not lie but I have corrected them in the eyes of God. I do not feel convicted anymore. I can sleep at night. My goals are simply these: To love and embrace all forms of dance that interest me. To build strength and stamina in a fun way. To be able to do some crazy stuff that no one I know can do.... I will not tell my male friends about it (they only get excited). I will not perform this outside of the studio because I dont have a pole anywhere else and...well...I dont want to. If my future husband wants to see, then he will submit to my request to have a dance studio built in the basement of our house. 

:blush3:I try to be an example of the love of God. People are so harsh. I am commanded to display the fruits of the Spirit. Thats what I follow among other things. I am growing and learning in God every single day. I share what I believe but I never judge, attack, or condemn (or I am conscious not to anyway). I have no heaven or hell to put anyone in. And the bible says we do not wrestle with flesh and blood but with things we can not see. I do not argue with people about who's perspective is more accurate. Thats for the Holy Spirit to do, not me. 



People may say  its for whores/strippers but thats simply not true. Thats such a harsh judgement anyway but thats another thread. They didnt invent pole dancing. Most dont even know how to. A few talented strippers maybe made it popular and, of course, anything that can be sex'd-up and profitted is popular. In another country like Asian or Indian, there frame of reference for pole dancing is completely different. There are pole dancing in circuses, are they whores? 

And...yes we are to seek his righteous and he will add all things unto you. However, lets be real for a moment shall we. We should wake up every morning asking God and seeking his guidance throughout the day. When there are major decisions to be made like location, job, spouse, unbelieving friend, stop and pray before you make a mistake. 

This does not imply I can not make a move without stopping and praying and waiting with everything single thing. If youre overweight and you know you need help, do you pray and wait for God to tell you what gym to go to. No...you get up and go to your local gym and praise God while you'll running on the threadmill. I doubt God will be offended you didnt wait on him first. This could be applied to so many things but the fact of the matter is this: 

I ask God for guidance in all things every morning, specifically, open doors for me and close doors for me. I pay attention to those on my heart. The doors that are open I enter. If it feels bad, I re-evaluate. I will not always do the right things but thats when God will cover me because he knows my intention are good and righteous. 




Shimmie said:


> Hey! Where the Pretty Face Pole Dancer?
> 
> PrettyFaceANB... I'm back with something important to tell you. Yesterday I couldn't read this entire thread so I had to print it out to read through it later.
> 
> ...


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 19, 2009)

Correct me if I am wrong but...

I looked at three concordences: 

Strong's Bible Concordence
Nelson Study Bible Concordence
Online Multi-version Bible Concordence
I did not find _sodomy_ anywhere. I found _Sodom_ (referring to the place of Sodom), _Sodoma_ (also referring to the place), and _Somodite_ (referring to the people). 

When I researched sodomy its always referenced with anal and oral sex between sex-same individuals and animals (if you're into that kind of thing). We all know Sodom and Gomorrah's problem was not because the men and women were having anal or oral sex. More because the men wanted to have sex with other men and they were very, very aggressive about it. They had a _*lust *_and sexual immorality problem above all else. 

_Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire._ 


*
These are the scriptures I have found in the regarding sex between men and women: *

"*Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. *" (Leviticus 18:22-23) 

"*If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.* " (Leviticus 20:13) 

_"*For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;*"_ (Romans 1:26-28)

_*"9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites (referring to the people), 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."*_ (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

"*29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[b] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them." *(Romans 1:29-32)


In Song of Solomon, the most romantic story ever, the husband and wife talk of tasting of each other. A few references but it subject to interpretation:

_*SOS 2:*__*3*__*    As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.*_

_*SOS 4:*__*16*__*  Awake, O north wind; and come, thou south; blow upon my garden, that the spices thereof may flow out. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits.*_

_*SOS 8:*__*2*__*   I would lead thee, and bring thee into my mother's house, who would instruct me: I would cause thee to drink of spiced wine of the juice of my pomegranate.*_


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## Shimmie (Mar 19, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I am over here...Shimmie...thank you so much.
> 
> I have been praying major about it ever since this thread started. I was wondering why do I feel guilty. Then I really have to search my motives for doing it. I found flaws I will not lie but I have corrected them in the eyes of God. I do not feel convicted anymore. I can sleep at night. My goals are simply these: To love and embrace all forms of dance that interest me. To build strength and stamina in a fun way. To be able to do some crazy stuff that no one I know can do.... I will not tell my male friends about it (they only get excited). I will not perform this outside of the studio because I dont have a pole anywhere else and...well...I dont want to. If my future husband wants to see, then he will submit to my request to have a dance studio built in the basement of our house.
> 
> ...


 
 

If nothing else, Pole Dancing needs someone like you to 'redeem' it, to give it a good name and a positive image.   

It may not be a form of exercise for everyone, but that's life.  But no one has the right to take this Dance Pole and beat you over the head with it.  You do not deserve such harshness.  They can just step away from the pole and move on. 

You have the class, intelligence and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, to discern, that there's no such thing as one size fits all. Not everyone is the same.  But for those who want to do this, you will be one who can help them along the way. 

Hugs and blessings.   

I'm praying for your new home Dance studio.  It's also one of my Dreams as well.  

I'm having waaaaayyyyyyyyy too much fun up in this thread with this Pole Dancer Smiley.      

Here's my new Dance Troupe, called the Tah' Poleys.  (Tahitian Pole Dancing).       

Ladies  and Ladies.....

Preeeeeee senting the Classic Dancers of LHCF "The 'Tah' Poleys'  

   

   

  

 

   Yayyyyy,  Rahhhhh, Encore....  ​


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 19, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> ​
> ​
> ​
> ​
> Yayyyyy, Rahhhhh, Encore.... ​


 
You are having fun. I am loving the pole smiley. LOL!


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## Shimmie (Mar 19, 2009)

Okay, I just came back from searching our thread archives.  

I was looking for this website regarding anal sex.  

NOTE:  This is not a judgment call on anyone's sexual intimacy in their marriage bed. When it comes to man and wife, it's their private business.  

I just found the information to be very, very eye opening.  There are some anatomical diagrams which you may not wish to open at work.  

http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/?article=faq&refid=125 

The following thread will bless you.  This is where the I learned about the website above.       

It is a very good thread.   

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=96650&highlight=anal+sex


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## pebbles (Mar 19, 2009)

Oh my goodness, talk about a blast from the past! LOL! I'd forgotten about that thread, Shimmie!


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## Ramya (Mar 19, 2009)

That was one of the first threads that I read as a lurker


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## Shimmie (Mar 19, 2009)

pebbles said:


> Oh my goodness, talk about a blast from the past! LOL! I'd forgotten about that thread, Shimmie!


 
  Girl, this is the thread that 'shook' the Christian Forum's wigs off.  Erry body's head went natch'el'...  

Nice & Wavy was up in there', I was there, Firecracker, DLewis, Supergirl.... ain't it funny how 'sex' subjects draw everyone's attention.   

Add a little Jesus to it and the Church says,


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## Shimmie (Mar 19, 2009)

One of my very favorite Romance threads safe for Christians... 

" For Wives Only " 

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=89975&highlight=for+wives+only


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## GodMadeMePretty (Mar 23, 2009)

pebbles said:


> My personal opinion is that where the *word of GOD* is silent, we should be silent.



I totally agree with this.

Becoming One by Joe Beam is an EXCELLENT read on the marriage bed as well as other areas of married life.


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## MA2010 (Mar 23, 2009)

Thanks for the threads posted above Shimmie! Praise God for honest holy understanding of the marriage bed!


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## Shimmie (Mar 23, 2009)

Manushka said:


> Thanks for the threads posted above Shimmie! Praise God for honest holy understanding of the marriage bed!


  God bless you Manushka.... (pretty name ).

It's time to honor sex as it should be.  To give it a capital 'S' for Sacred, Santified, Set Apart for it's intended Purpose of Pureness and Privacy.  

This world has made of mess of it long enough!


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## pebbles (Mar 23, 2009)

^^^ Ain't that the truth!


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 23, 2009)

Ouch. That's why I dont and want get down like that. I'm too petite for that kind of abuse. Ouch ouch ouch. 



Shimmie said:


> Okay, I just came back from searching our thread archives.
> 
> I was looking for this website regarding anal sex.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Mar 23, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Ouch. That's why I dont and want get down like that. I'm too petite for that kind of abuse. Ouch ouch ouch.


I totally agree, it scares me to think about it.  I also have concerns with 'hygiene'.  I don't want the transfer of harmful bacteria from the back to the front to occur.   

Men don't think about those things when they're in the heat of the moment.  They have no idea.   The last thing on his mind at that moment, is a course in feminine hygiene. 

After seeing those diagrams on the website, I'll be singing Amy Winehouse's song... 

"No, no, no..."


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 24, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I totally agree, it scares me to think about it. I also have concerns with 'hygiene'. I don't want the transfer of harmful bacteria from the back to the front to occur.
> 
> Men don't think about those things when they're in the heat of the moment. They have no idea.  The last thing on his mind at that moment, is a course in feminine hygiene.
> 
> ...


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 13, 2009)

I just realized last night, I do want be sexy and saved. For Me. I love to dance around in my room in front of the mirror. Showing off, looking at my curves, smiling, tossing hair...being a sexy woman. Its fun and I feel accepted. I think, "God made no mistakes here" LOL!


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## Shimmie (Apr 13, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> I just realized last night, I do want be sexy and saved. For Me. I love to dance around in my room in front of the mirror. Showing off, looking at my curves, smiling, tossing hair...being a sexy woman. Its fun and I feel accepted. I think, "God made no mistakes here" LOL!


 
Did you say 'DANCE"?   The 'magic' words that bring a smile to my heart.  

I agree with  you.  

I know for a fact that when God created 'me', that He was showing off.  

Well, He was.........................................



Life is to be enjoyed, so live, love and DANCE  :reddancer:


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## kandake (Apr 13, 2009)

So I thought about this thread when I was in church yesterday.  This lady had on some bamboo earrings.  You know those huge hoop earrings from back in the day. The ones that LL Cool J talks about in his "Around The Way Girl" song. 

Anywho, they had SEXY spelled out in the middle of the earring.  Why would you think those earrings were appropriate for church.  Resurrection Sunday no less.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 13, 2009)

She probably dont know any better. If you have say you're sexy, that means you wanna be not that you feel you are. Sexy comes from inside and dont have to say a thing about it. 


**kandi** said:


> So I thought about this thread when I was in church yesterday. This lady had on some bamboo earrings. You know those huge hoop earrings from back in the day. The ones that LL Cool J talks about in his "Around The Way Girl" song.
> 
> Anywho, they had SEXY spelled out in the middle of the earring. Why would you think those earrings were appropriate for church. Resurrection Sunday no less.


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## inthepink (Apr 13, 2009)

Haha - you girls are reminding of the movie I saw this weekend...Ten Commandments   Yes, first time ever (didn't get to finish it though).  But the women were dressed beautifully and they loved to dance!  Their clothing just reminded me of Shimmie.   My mom and I were just in awe of the beautiful clothing.


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## kandake (Apr 13, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> She probably dont know any better. If you have say you're sexy, that means you wanna be not that you feel you are. Sexy comes from inside and dont have to say a thing about it.



I think she know better but she just doesn't care.  And yeah, why do you have to proclaim your sexiness in this kind of way.


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## BeautifulFlower (Apr 13, 2009)

I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. Ok she's just tacky then...



**kandi** said:


> I think she know better but she just doesn't care. And yeah, why do you have to proclaim your sexiness in this kind of way.


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## janeemat (Apr 13, 2009)

I just read this entire thread! Boy was it enlightening, funny, humorous, encouraging and on and on.  This is definitely a topic to be discussed at one of our Women's Ministry sessions.  I'm not making any comments, just taking it in.  I LOVE IT!


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## honeyflaava (Apr 14, 2009)

Manushka said:


> You and I both. If I don't check myself and what I have on I tend to grow very uncomfortable.
> 
> I'm learing to do all for Christ and not myself.
> 
> ...



Even though this is about a month old, your post truly blessed me especially the bolded! God has been dealing with me lately about my desire to be sexy to men. And you're right about the desire stemming from a root of conceit and pride. Why should I as a single Christian woman be desiring to sexually arouse a man who isn't my husband? And this conviction is not just in regards to my clothes, but also my makeup, my hair, the way I walk, my facial expressions, my eyes especially. I'm not bragging here, but my eyes are my most attention getting features and I will admit that I have used them to intentionally convey seductive messages to men. This kind of behavior is definitely not descriptive of a virtuous woman who has been called to live in holiness. I am now making certain that I am being truly sensitive to the voice of Holy Spirit and checking my motives for my actions when it comes to my appearance.


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## MA2010 (Apr 14, 2009)

honeyflaava said:


> Even though this is about a month old, your post truly blessed me especially the bolded! God has been dealing with me lately about my desire to be sexy to men. And you're right about the desire stemming from a root of conceit and pride. Why should I as a single Christian woman be desiring to sexually arouse a man who isn't my husband? And this conviction is not just in regards to my clothes, but also my makeup, my hair, the way I walk, my facial expressions, my eyes especially. I'm not bragging here, but my eyes are my most attention getting features and I will admit that I have used them to intentionally convey seductive messages to men. This kind of behavior is definitely not descriptive of a virtuous woman who has been called to live in holiness. I am now making certain that I am being truly sensitive to the voice of Holy Spirit and checking my motives for my actions when it comes to my appearance.


 
I definitely feel you girl .


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## Shimmie (Apr 15, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Haha - you girls are reminding of the movie I saw this weekend...Ten Commandments  Yes, first time ever (didn't get to finish it though). But the women were dressed beautifully and they loved to dance! Their clothing just reminded me of Shimmie.  My mom and I were just in awe of the beautiful clothing.


Hairlove!!!!!  Oh My Goodness Gracious!   It's so interesting that you said this, because this is why I look at these movies.  The gowns and the dancing.   You are so right about me .  

Of course they've 'Hollywood 'ed' the movies with all of the drama 'extras' to create a storyline.      But the gowns are what I love these movies for.  These women wear a different gown for every scene in the movie.  All the while, I'm having a fit.  

"Salome" and "Solomon and the Queen of Sheba" are two other movies where the gowns and fabrics are simply gorgeous!  

My closet is not far from it...  

Blessings angel


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