# Putting Money at the Pastor's Feet During the Sermon....



## kweenameena (May 29, 2012)

What are your thoughts about this?

This past weekend, I visited a mega church. While the pastor was preaching, there were a bunch of different women walking down to the front to put money on the stage at the Pastor's feet. This was not during offering time.

So I asked my friend about it (he's a member of the church) and he said that they were sowing a seed.
I mentioned that it would be better, imo, if people felt the need to get up and sow a seed right then and there in the middle of the sermon...why couldn't they put it in an offering plate that's off to the side or in the back of the church. Besides it being a distraction, there are other reasons that I don't feel right about the whole act.

He felt that it was a form of praise and praise doesn't have to be done in secret.

What are your thoughts?


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## diadall (May 29, 2012)

I thought that is why people say amen at church?


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## Rainbow Dash (May 29, 2012)

Some do it for show and some out of stuff they've been taught. They are going off of the Book of Acts, where the people laid all things at the apostles feet and everything was distributed, so that everyone had what they needed. Most of these pastors do not use that money to distribute towards the needs of those lacking. It goes right into their pockets. Today it's man-worship/pastor-worship, which I just cannot stand.


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## kweenameena (May 29, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> Some do it for show and some out of stuff they've been taught. They are going off of the Book of Acts, where the people laid all things at the apostles feet and everything was distributed, so that everyone had what they needed. Most of these pastors do not use that money to distribute towards the needs of those lacking. It goes right into their pockets. Today it's man-worship/pastor-worship, which I just cannot stand.


I thought it looked a bit cult-like as well. Also, I felt uncomfortable for the Pastor's wife. Some of the women that sashayed to the front just looked like they wanted the pastor to see them.


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## nelcoy (May 29, 2012)

My church does this and it's a mega-church if that matters.


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## Keen (May 29, 2012)

kweenameena said:


> I thought it looked a bit cult-like as well. Also, I felt uncomfortable for the Pastor's wife. Some of the women that sashayed to the front just looked like they wanted the pastor to see them.



I was just about to ask why only women went. Do the pastor keep that money or does it go toward collection?


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## Shimmie (May 29, 2012)

Don't let it bother you.   Personally, I don't agree with it because I'm weary of the 'spirit' which behind it.    However, I leave it alone because it distracts me from receiving the peace that God has for me.    I don't watch the TV Ministers and I don't (_purposely_) attend the Churches that do this.     

We're in a season where we have to move away from what distracts and annoys us.   I'm learning this in so many ways.  There's so much that the enemy is doing to distract us; things like this are among them.     

I'm called to pray and to minister peace to broken hearts.  I realize when the enemy uses things like this to try and get me off track.    I thank God for the people that God has placed in my life here on this forum and outside of it, who love me enough to pull me 'back' and keep me focused on what I need to focus upon.   

So... let it go.  God has something for us far better.   satan knows what distracts us from receiving it.   

This isn't a lecture ... I promise.   I'm talking to 'me'... Shimmie as much as anyone else.   All of you know how I can 'cut a topic into shreds' with a criss cross cut and back through the shredder again.    

I did good with this one...    Aren't you proud of me?


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## nelcoy (May 29, 2012)

When I first saw it being done I was perplexed, but now I ignore it. My father's church never did that and I never saw it at churches he guest preached at. Now that I joined a mega church on my own (I got tired of being viewed as a PK), I see some questionable things. I talk to my dad or all the 50-11 preacher relatives I have about things I see & they explain it.


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## Shimmie (May 29, 2012)

nelcoy said:


> When I first saw it being done I was perplexed, but now I ignore it. My father's church never did that and I never saw it at churches he guest preached at. Now that I joined a mega church on my own (I got tired of being viewed as a PK), I see some questionable things. I talk to my dad or all the 50-11 preacher relatives I have about things I see & they explain it.



You're in a good place with the Lord.   You're branched out on your own to discover what's beyond your immediate family.  It took a great stretch of faith for you to do this and you are still close to your Father and other family members.... all 50-11 of them.    

Learn all that God is teaching you, the good with the not so good.   With the Holy Spirit leading you, you will always be on path.   You never left Jesus, your first Love and you never will.   :Rose:


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## LifeafterLHCF (May 29, 2012)

What I may say may offended my apologizes in advance. In my viewpoint I feel like they are doing it for show. Show off how much money you have,show of oh look at Sis such and such,or like in the bible God spoke about those who would fast or pray out loud to get recognition but as the word says they have already gotten their reward. 

I'm going to be real blunt. It looks like they tipping the pastor and well the only person I have tipped is a waiter and a stripper just saying. And if my eyes are good the pastor ain't no stripper or waiter and I see no poles so I have mad issue about that. That money if you are really lead to do it you could give it to the pastor on your way out of the church or like you said op in the offering tray. It's mad distracting and disrespectful to this day and age worship extravaganza that last 3 hours. I have seen this in big and oh my gosh small churches. I was more than perplexed it put me on hyper alert.


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## nelcoy (May 29, 2012)

GoddessMaker said:
			
		

> What I may say may offended my apologizes in advance. In my viewpoint I feel like they are doing it for show. Show off how much money you have,show of oh look at Sis such and such,or like in the bible God spoke about those who would fast or pray out loud to get recognition but as the word says they have already gotten their reward.
> 
> I'm going to be real blunt. It looks like they tipping the pastor and well the only person I have tipped is a waiter and a stripper just saying. And if my eyes are good the pastor ain't no stripper or waiter and I see no poles so I have mad issue about that. That money if you are really lead to do it you could give it to the pastor on your way out of the church or like you said op in the offering tray. It's mad distracting and disrespectful to this day and age worship extravaganza that last 3 hours. I have seen this in big and oh my gosh small churches. I was more than perplexed it put me on hyper alert.



Your right, it's very distracting. It reminds me of something that happens at a strip club. I think people do it to show off their flesh and their so call wallet. The money is suppose to go the poor, but it doesn't. The members aren't sowing a seed like they think they are. My church is on TBN and they never show it happening on camera and that's very telling. They discourage walking around during service, but dont stop you if you are sowing a seed at the alter. Chile please! I could go on and on, but I'm trying to be respectful.


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## SweetSimplicity (May 29, 2012)

I just started attending a large Church where this is going on.  I was very confused at first.  I have been trying to ignore a lot of things that just doesn't seem right.


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## Shimmie (May 29, 2012)

naturalmermaid said:


> I just started attending a large Church where this is going on.  I was very confused at first.  I have been trying to ignore a lot of things that just doesn't seem right.



Just pray Loved One.   Just pray.   satan uses things like this to distract from receiving God's Word.   

Don't be robbed ...


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## CoilyFields (May 30, 2012)

My church doesn't do this but I recently went to a revival where folks, of their own accord, came down during the sermon and placed money on the steps. The Prophet said they were sowing seeds of faith. 

I must say that I dont believe that (all) the people were doing it for show (and it was men and women)...but Im really not sure how I feel about this. I would not do it...but is it wrong in and of itself ("no tipping allowed") or is it wrong because of the way its being done (distracting)? Would it be more acceptable to take up a special offering later? Have a basket off to the side? Wait until the "Pastors anniversary" ? LOL (only Black churches-in my experience-have this celebration and some think it honorable and others think its rediculous).

Sidenote: I do think that we should refrain from making negative assumptions about what Pastors do with the money. All pastors are not selfish crooks, not even the majority are. And if its given to them it is their business what they do with it (whether its keeping it or giving it away). Pastors are the only people that we seem to put this heavy burden on to take a vow of visible poverty. And of course I am not condoning flamboyance or an abuse of money or power etc.


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## Laela (May 30, 2012)

I don't know whose pockets get lined, but I will say I've seen some "shows" and I don't like it, either. Nothing done for the Glory of God will every even _appear _wrong....





Health&hair28 said:


> Some do it for show and some out of stuff they've been taught. They are going off of the Book of Acts, where the people laid all things at the apostles feet and everything was distributed, so that everyone had what they needed. Most of these pastors do not use that money to distribute towards the needs of those lacking. It goes right into their pockets. T*oday it's man-worship/pastor-worship, which I just cannot stand. *


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## Rainbow Dash (May 30, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> My church doesn't do this but I recently went to a revival where folks, of their own accord, came down during the sermon and placed money on the steps. The Prophet said they were sowing seeds of faith.
> 
> I must say that I dont believe that (all) the people were doing it for show (and it was men and women)...but Im really not sure how I feel about this. I would not do it...but is it wrong in and of itself ("no tipping allowed") or is it wrong because of the way its being done (distracting)? Would it be more acceptable to take up a special offering later? Have a basket off to the side? Wait until the "Pastors anniversary" ? LOL (only Black churches-in my experience-have this celebration and some think it honorable and others think its rediculous).
> 
> Sidenote: I do think that we should refrain from making negative assumptions about what Pastors do with the money. All pastors are not selfish crooks, not even the majority are. *And if its given to them it is their business what they do with it (whether its keeping it or giving it away). Pastors are the only people that we seem to put this heavy burden on to take a vow of visible poverty.* And of course I am not condoning flamboyance or an abuse of money or power etc.


 


No one said pastors had to take a vow of poverty but if they are using Acts to condone or teach this act then in the book of Acts the money was distributed so that all had what they needed. In my experience they take the money and it is never distributed. And these pastors were not poor, they had more money than most of the congregation.


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## LucieLoo12 (May 30, 2012)

Well my church does not do this, but I have seen it done before. I can't speak on the individuals in this situation because they really could have been sincere, really expecting to recieve from God. But I dont agree on the whole "sow a seed" theology that being taught today either , but thats a different thread . 

I am not against blessing the pastor, I believe the man that labors in the Gospel, should receive blessings, but it's the whole "showiness" of it all. I dont like that it has to be this big scene. The bible says to not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. We give because the bible says its better to give than to recieve, not to get the praises of men, and to be seen of men.


It reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxeTjrckl0

kweenameena, what was being preached on when the people decided to do this...?


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## CoilyFields (May 30, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> No one said pastors had to take a vow of poverty but if they are using Acts to condone or teach this act then in the book of Acts the money was distributed so that all had what they needed. In my experience they take the money and it is never distributed. And these pastors were not poor, they had more money than most of the congregation.


 
I wasn't referring to using Acts to justify it. I have actually never heard acts used to explain why it is done. IF that were the reason given then I would expect the money to be disseminated accordingly.

The explanation I was given, and some others also said in the thread was to sow a seed in gratefulness and/or faith. With the money being given to the Pastor (not necessarily to the church). In those cases then it is the Pastors business what he or she chooses to do with it.


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## CoilyFields (May 30, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> Well my church does not do this, but I have seen it done before. I can't speak on the individuals in this situation because they really could have been sincere, really expecting to recieve from God. But I dont agree on the whole "sow a seed" theology that being taught today either , but thats a different thread .
> 
> I am not against blessing the pastor, I believe the man that labors in the Gospel, should receive blessings, but it's the whole "showiness" of it all. I dont like that it has to be this big scene. The bible says to not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. We give because the bible says its better to give than to recieve, not to get the praises of men, and to be seen of men.
> 
> ...


 

So your objection is to the "showiness" of it, not necessarily with the idea of giving the Pastor money for whatever reason?

I know your question wasnt directed at me but when the folks did this at the revival, the prophet had just said something really profound...I mean it for real had light bulbs going on in heads (lol) and it had nothing to do with money...but a guy just walked up and put some money on the steps where He was Preaching.

I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it...and I really dont like when they have offering lines for certain amounts ($50 line etc.). I think if there were perhaps a basket in a corner somewhere held by the usher (if offering time was already done when he preached) then maybe that would be acceptable...I guess


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## Rainbow Dash (May 30, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> I wasn't referring to using Acts to justify it. I have actually never heard acts used to explain why it is done. IF that were the reason given then I would expect the money to be disseminated accordingly.
> 
> The explanation I was given, and some others also said in the thread was to sow a seed in gratefulness and/or faith. With the money being given to the Pastor (not necessarily to the church). In those cases then it is the Pastors business what he or she chooses to do with it.


 

Gotcha, The laying it at the feet thing is found in the book of Acts, which is where I've heard this particular thing be taught from. I'm not against blessing the pastor but it should be for God's glory and not man. I'm not directing this statement at you, just saying. 

Why not just put it in the offering or give it to the pastor personally? God will see it regardless. 

They have received their reward, the praise and acceptance of man.


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## Loving (May 30, 2012)

Shimmie said:


> Just pray Loved One. Just pray. satan uses things like this to distract from receiving God's Word.
> 
> Don't be robbed ...


 Love this!! Its so true!


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## plainj (May 30, 2012)

Great question OP. This question recently came up for me. I just left my church for this reason (and many others). They practiced this (money at the feet of the pastors) at my church too. This wasn't being done at this church when I first joined. This was a newly adopted practice and I don't know why. When I asked about it, I got many of the same answers as above: sowing a seed, blessing the word or blessing the pastor, yada, yada, yada. It still never seemed right. I also thought it had a strip club feeling (not that I've ever been to one. I just heard about it. Lolololo) 
I don't think pastors should be poor and do believe in blessing the pastor (when warranted) but I just don't agree *at all* with this practice, especially when there is a giant imbalance between pastors and their flocks. There is a huge problem when the pastors are driving around in a Lexxus and a Mercedes, living in a big new house with a pool and paid landscapers and half the flock is struggling, taking 3 buses to get to church or driving around with duct tape on their car to hold it together. It is a churchy practice done for show a lot (not always) and it is extremely distracting. Lots of times I had to force myself to focus on the message than on the people taking the money to the pulpit. At this church, there was always a birthday or an anniversary for either of the pastors where money was always requested and this was above and beyond tithing and offering. SMH

I know God knows the hearts of His people way more than I do. He knows who has the right motives and who doesn't. I pray constantly for those He has placed to lead His people. It's easy for our leaders to veer off the path but I pray they remain on the narrow road, follow God's commands and stay in His will for our sakes. We need good godly leaders who truly care for our souls.


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## LucieLoo12 (May 30, 2012)

Yes, I don't see anything wrong with blessing your Pastor. If he is sacrificing his time and life for the flock, then I don't see the problem..but the whole laying it at his feet while he is preaching ...ummm...to each its own I guess, I wouldnt do it.

I dont like when they ask for certain amounts of money either , or when they have like 2-3 different offering times...



CoilyFields said:


> So your objection is to the "showiness" of it, not necessarily with the idea of giving the Pastor money for whatever reason?
> 
> I know your question wasnt directed at me but when the folks did this at the revival, the prophet had just said something really profound...I mean it for real had light bulbs going on in heads (lol) and it had nothing to do with money...but a guy just walked up and put some money on the steps where He was Preaching.
> 
> I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it...and I really dont like when they have offering lines for certain amounts ($50 line etc.). I think if there were perhaps a basket in a corner somewhere held by the usher (if offering time was already done when he preached) then maybe that would be acceptable...I guess


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## LucieLoo12 (May 30, 2012)

plainj said:


> . *There is a huge problem when the pastors are driving around in a Lexxus and a Mercedes, living in a big new house with a pool and paid landscapers and half the flock is struggling, taking 3 buses to get to church or driving around with duct tape on their car to hold it together. *.


 
plainj

This!!!

I don't like this, when the Pastor got 3 rolex watches and a mink pulpit chair ,and some gator shoes but the church roof is leaking, and the pews are broken...come on now...... Now if the pastor has his own job and is providing for himself, well can't say too much about that, I can but I wont . But when he is taking money from the congregation and from the church and there is an obvious need in other areas, that does make me side-eye them..or when they see Bro. Dante needs some new suits because he is too small or tore up, but the Pastor got a new suit every week...makes me wonder...


Alot of time the pastors say "sow a seed, sow a seed to be blessed" to the congregation, why dont someone say "Pastor why dont you sow us a seed so you can be blessed, we want you to be blessed just like us...so come on, and sow a seed to us"...I bet you all that sowing a seed preaching gone stop...


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## Highly Favored8 (May 30, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> plainj
> 
> This!!!
> 
> ...




Stop it---You are speaking the truth!  I do not post in here often. However, this is a great discussion. 


I will say this in my church- the word or anointing was powerful that a husband and wife walked up to the Pastor while he was preaching and laid money right at his feet... 


What you said in the bold is truth... The thing I will say is that we have to know the Lord and the Word- Bible for ourselves.

I have a friend who is a member of Donnie Mccurlkins church in NYC and she tithed and gave over and beyond. My friend almost lost her home when she lost her job. She went to the church and asked for help and she only recieved half of the help 

I have another friend who has the same thinking like you LucieLoo12... It is all about a relationship with the Father and a real one at that...So, that we as a body will be able to discern from these pulpit pimps. 

I meditate daily on Romans 16:17-20..


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## CoilyFields (May 30, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> @plainj
> 
> This!!!
> 
> ...


 
See...this is where it gets tricky. This is a general rant...not directed at you Lucie...

My pastor has a huge house, drives a lexus truck, nice clothes etc. but he worked till he retired and at business meetings I have personally seen him forgoe a salary when the church needed something (He's 83 and has pastored this church for 40 years). So someone who may not attend business meetings or was not there when he and his family of 10 barely had food to eat could easily think the very same thing about him having all of that and the church or members having some money issues (which the church does at this current time due to diminishing membership). 

But even if these little-known sacrifices were not the case...just practically spealking...if the Pastor has a Lexus (that he baught with money they either earned from other work or used from the salary from the Church) and a church member has no car...what should happen? Is the Pastor supposed to trade in the Lex and buy the member a car with the difference? Should the money come out of the Pastors pockets or the Church's account? (Or are folks viewing these accounts as one and the same?)

Because when the Pastor is not the founder of the Church he usually does not have any power over the tithes and offerings collected. They dont go straight from the basket to his pocket.  There is a board who has hired him to do the ministry/spiritual stuff and they do the financial and practical stuff. In those cases the Pastor and what he has or does not have may not have anything to do with what the Church/members has or doesn't.  And He may not have a say in how much the "Church" gives to the members who are in need (because He does not deal with the money). My Pastor has requested that the church help certain folks but it is ultimately the Boards decision (usually they honor his requests). 

Now I DO believe that the Pastor should *lead by example* and so by default they should be HUGE givers to the Church and the ministry! But if they are sowing seeds and meeting needs...shouldn't they also be able to reap at some point without criticism? Or should they hide their harvest because others have either NOT sown at all or just have not come into their season? Is there no middle ground? Either take a vow of poverty or be labled a user/swindler of the people?

I know no one said any of this here in this thread but the slander against Pastors as a whole really saddens me. I am aware that there are swindlers in the pulpit. Folks who want to raise themselves up on the necks of others or that believe simply because they are the Pastor that they should have the best. Or even folks who do take the money straight from the offering baskets to their pockets. And Those people are wrong!!!!!! But I also feel like we often times see with the lense of the world...applying the characteristics of a few to the whole group-unless they have taken an unspoken vow of poverty. Unfortunately, more often then not on this board and IRL, when the title Pastor comes up it is accompanied by assumptions of greed etc. just like when the word Christian comes up it is accompanied by the word hypocrite, when this is just not the case for the majority! Those of us who have been under the leadership of good Pastors should stand up for the integrity of the position, not assuming the worst when money is involved...like the world does.

I am getting off of my pulpit and exiting stage left...


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## naturalgyrl5199 (May 30, 2012)

Showing off by throwing a seed in the middle of a sermon....hmmm...(yes some people are showy...but all aren't)


Soooo, isn't wearing and dressing in a way to show you have money at church any different? 

Why does an offering have to be private?

(I'm just throwing out some questions)


When I see it, it doesn't bother me because either 1) they are being showy, and why do I even care WHY people do what they do? I tend to mind my own business. 2) Really recieved a word and want to sow a seed on THAT WORD...not necessarily the PERSON. 3) They just LOVE that Pastor and wanna show respect. 4) okay they worship the Pastor...and they need to be delivered....Being that I don't know who is doing it for what reason...thus, I mind my own business and KIM.

I've done it before because the Pastor confirmed a word God gave me so I sowed a seed on that word....and then I KIM. Haven't been pulled or led to do it since then so....*shrug* <-----Mature Christian!


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## LucieLoo12 (May 30, 2012)

CoilyFields said:


> See...this is where it gets tricky. This is a general rant...not directed at you Lucie...
> 
> My pastor has a huge house, drives a lexus truck, nice clothes etc. but he worked till he retired and at business meetings I have personally seen him forgoe a salary when the church needed something (He's 83 and has pastored this church for 40 years). So someone who may not attend business meetings or was not there when he and his family of 10 barely had food to eat could easily think the very same thing about him having all of that and the church or members having some money issues (which the church does at this current time due to diminishing membership).
> 
> ...


 
I agree. If you read my other posts, I said its nothing wrong with a Pastor receiving blessings. my issue is when he is reaping and reaping and reaping and reaping and getting richer and richer and richer, but there is a alot of lacking going on in the church. Does he have to pay every member bill and take care of them, no...but maybe he could sacrifice a couple of his offering to go to the needy....if he is able to. Can I tell a Pastor how to spend his money that he has worked for? of course no, but I pray that if he seen someone in need he would what he could to help, even if that means selling fish dinners or getting together with the other members for a donation...This does not only go for the pastors, but all sisters and brothers in Christ..Sometimes "I am praying for u", is not enough when you have the means to help.....

As far as the board members and things, my church dont have that, so I dont know how that works...


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## kweenameena (May 30, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> Well my church does not do this, but I have seen it done before. I can't speak on the individuals in this situation because they really could have been sincere, really expecting to recieve from God. But I dont agree on the whole "sow a seed" theology that being taught today either , but thats a different thread .
> 
> I am not against blessing the pastor, I believe the man that labors in the Gospel, should receive blessings, but it's the whole "showiness" of it all. I dont like that it has to be this big scene. The bible says to not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. We give because the bible says its better to give than to recieve, not to get the praises of men, and to be seen of men.
> 
> ...


To be honest, it wasn't a soul stirring sermon or anything
And they do this every Sunday, apparently.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 30, 2012)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Showing off by throwing a seed in the middle of a sermon....hmmm...(yes some people are showy...but all aren't)
> 
> 
> Soooo, isn't wearing and dressing in a way to show you have money at church any different?
> ...


 

Yep, we should mind our own business, but we should be able to discuss stuff like this. It is wise for a person to know the culture of a church before they commit to it. Why do they do what they do? 

Why get up and possibly be a distraction to others during the sermon? For real though.... 

I've never read in the bible where we are to sow a seed on the Word of God. Where is that from? I really want to know cause the Word and the Annointing don't cost money. 

It's learned behavior in my imho.

If we are going to take* only part of this act* from the book of Acts, then do the whole thing...distribute it. This is where people are getting this from. When this was done, the early Church was being established and it was to make sure everyone had all that they needed. It was not to just give to the Apostles, they were actually making sure the whole church was taken care of. That's all.


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## CoilyFields (May 30, 2012)

LucieLoo12 said:


> I agree. If you read my other posts, I said its nothing wrong with a Pastor receiving blessings. my issue is when he is reaping and reaping and reaping and reaping and getting richer and richer and richer, but there is a alot of lacking going on in the church. Does he have to pay every member bill and take care of them, no...but maybe he could sacrifice a couple of his offering to go to the needy....if he is able to. Can I tell a Pastor how to spend his money that he has worked for? of course no, but I pray that if he seen someone in need he would what he could to help, even if that means selling fish dinners or getting together with the other members for a donation...This does not only go for the pastors, but all sisters and brothers in Christ..Sometimes "I am praying for u", is not enough when you have the means to help.....
> 
> As far as the board members and things, my church dont have that, so I dont know how that works...


 
Oh I read your posts and understand completely what you are saying and I dont disagree. 

My concern was on a broader scale of how we must be carful not to assume that a Pastor is _not_ giving and sacrificing just because they may have material things.  And most folks IRL tend to believe/assume the worst rather than the best of Pastors who are well-dressed, have nice cars and big houses etc. while accepting it as normal for other people to have those things.


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## LucieLoo12 (May 30, 2012)

kweenameena said:


> To be honest, it wasn't a soul stirring sermon or anything
> *And they do this every Sunday, apparently*.


 

Thats not good


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## naturalgyrl5199 (May 30, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> Yep, we should mind our own business, *but we should be able to discuss stuff like this*. It is wise for a person to know the culture of a church before they commit to it. Why do they do what they do?
> 
> Why get up and possibly be a distraction to others during the sermon? For real though....
> 
> ...


 
I don't think its wrong to discuss it or question it either. And yes it is learned behavior.....

As far as a disctraction ANYTHING can be a distraction! A women taking a victory lap can be a distraction, a person speaking in tongues and the one who interprets it can be a distraction, the man shouting God's glory during church can be a distraction....A person walking in (or out) with a crying baby can be a distraction.....A distraction is WHATEVER you let distract you from your focus/prayer/mediation/kneeling/praise/whatever....and that's YOUR issue......

When I saw it for the very first time (a guest pastor was preaching and his own congregants were visiting and dropping $$ at his feet then when our Pastor preached, they did the same for him), a bunch of people asked my Pastor because we were like perplexedserious side eye)...And he was really cool about telling us why people do it. He doesn't think people should be forced to do it, but he says he understands why people do it.

To be fair, when it happened to my Pastor the first time and every time since, he has his ushers pick all that $$ up and put it in the big offering basket once all the smaller baskets have moved to the front and they are going to pray. Its a bunch of balled up bills and such so they just throw it on top of the other $$ and KIM. So I assume it went on to be used for the church as they would any offering....


There is a lot of things "churches" do that may or may not be stated to do in the bible but its done. If you don't want to sow a seed on a word, then don't. No biggie. No stress. You'll be hard pressed to find a church in 2012 doing every single thing the bible says do or vice versa. The church I attend now has about 1500 members, very diverse and ever so often someone may drop some $$ on the alter but it rarely happens ever at that church because its not their culture. What is that church's culture is victory laps, speaking in tongues w/interpretation, praise dancing in the aisles with flags (even the 60+ year old little white lady gets her flag)....and trust me that's a distraction to some too. But that's OUR church culture. I don't know if victory laps and flags are in the bible but hey, we're worshipping God. And its all good to me.


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## Laela (May 30, 2012)

Great conversation....I'm enjoying the discussion. 

I'm hoping we can dig beyond the surface and look more into this ACT, according to the Word of God...which isn't so random, IMHO, being led by the Holy Spirit to enact God's Grace on others. 

It is truly sad when a church member in need cannot get help from their own congregation. That says a lot. I'm not talking about debt cancellation/bail out due to poor stewardship of one's money..I mean, really in need!
It would be good to see more churches operate as they did in the Book of Acts... concerning the poor and looking out for the welfare of others. It's not _delusions grandeur_....it's the way God commands us to live!


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## Sharpened (May 31, 2012)

"Sowing seed" in Scripture was never about money or things but believers telling the truth. The "seed of faith" is what God plants in believers by His own volition, not anything we give. These ideas were not taught prior to the 20th century. When are we going to get away from this focus on money and concentrate on spiritual sowing? Why not simply give without the spectacle?


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## CoilyFields (May 31, 2012)

Sharpened said:


> "Sowing seed" in Scripture was never about money or things but believers telling the truth. The "seed of faith" is what God plants in believers by His own volition, not anything we give. These ideas were not taught prior to the 20th century. When are we going to get away from this focus on money and concentrate on spiritual sowing? Why not simply give without the spectacle?


 
I totally agree with you that there is an unnecessary focus put on money when talking about sowing seeds. We sow in so many other ways! Forgivenss is one that comes to mind that God commands that we sow to others so that/because we recieve it from Him.  But I believe the emphasis comes from the fact that money is something that we treasure...a sacrifice is only a sacrifice if it has value to the giver and in our society that is money.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (May 31, 2012)

I understand what ya'll are saying about $$ and sowing seed. But what is inherently wrong about sowing your $$? I think we're focusing on money for the wrong reasons here...

Why must it be called a spectacle? What determines if something is a spectacle?

Think about what $$ really is:

Money we earn is provison from God (our money IS a modern thing, before where goods were bartered, traded, etc). We return that $$ in an act of obedience (tithe) and faith & love (offering). 

The paper form of money is tangible. Its visible. Its hard-earned. Its cherished, it allows us to have and buy things to live the way we need or want to. So what is wrong with me saying: Here Lord, you gave me this, and I am giving it back. Or better yet, I am taking something precious to me and special to me and giving to you IN FAITH because I truly believe you are going to do what you said you'd do. You also are saying the $$ isn't more important and will not keep me from trusting and believing in HIM. 

Who are you to tell the woman who was unemployed for months, who finally gets that job....go sit down and wait to put your money in the bucket when its "appropriate". Her heart might have been pulled that very moment and in that moment of love and faith, she didn't want to miss it, she hears a word from God via the Pastor and lies it at his feet....unashamed of what others think? You say its a spectacle...Why can't it be unashamed faith? isn't that the modern church needs? Why does it have to be about the Pastor? She may be sure enough about WHO God is, and what God is saying TO HER via the Pastor to look past him/her.

Finally, remember, money is tangible...I think the ability to give it to the church freely is an act of faith. What the church does with that money (good or bad) has nothing to do with the giver. He/She has done their act of faith. God will punsih those who blaspheme in his name if they steal the money or use it in a way he didn't call them to use it for. 

Sure you can also sow seeds with your time, but that may not be what God convicted you to do. I have had the same concerns as MANY OF YOU have posted here about money and sowing seeds/faith for years until I prayed on it. I realized that the God has a relationship with us all. What he convicts one to do is personal and private. 

Its fine to question these things....But I think its only a problem in a church if you are forced to do something you don't feel led to do. If people do this voluntarily....why are you worried about what they are doing with their money? If you tried to sway them against it, you may be causing them to be disobedient....You have to be careful....


Just a thought.


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## Rainbow Dash (May 31, 2012)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> I understand what ya'll are saying about $$ and sowing seed. But what is inherently wrong about sowing your $$? I think we're focusing on money for the wrong reasons here...
> 
> Why must it be called a spectacle? What determines if something is a spectacle?
> 
> ...


 
We as givers are instructed to sow into good ground. There is nothing wrong with knowing what or who you are sowing into. 

*Why is it only laid at the Pastor's feet and no one else's? Why not throw money at the singers and musicians, they are ministering as well. Especially when the song is ministering to the person.*

*Did the people throw money at Jesus' feet when he preached?*

*Actually Jesus preached to the people and fed them too.*

Anyway, like you said it's none of my business but it's good to ask questions. Sometimes we just do stuff cause we see other folks do it. 

If you believe that people should just give money at anytime during the service then what about the person who feels like offering a song, a dance, or shout during the sermon? That would be considered being a distraction. 

*When God's word is being preached He wants us to recieve it in faith and walk in it, not put a payment on it.* (My opinion). In the Word we recieve His word, walk it out and God is pleased.

Giving money does not make a person obedient to God.


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## naturalgyrl5199 (May 31, 2012)

Giving money does make a person obedient to God....if He told them to.

Yes just singing while someone else is talking is a distraction but thats not what we are discussing here.

Yes people do what they see others do but thats the same everywhere, so what? People "dress up or dress down" for church cause they may have seen others do it...or cause they simply prefer it.....Women do the church hat thing cause they see other prominent ladies in church do it....again, some see it as a big old unnecessary distraction, some call it church fashion....how do hats honor God? So what and oh well.....As long as you do what God compels YOU to do then you're good. 

I tell you what...if you see it happen, ask the person why they do it (Like I did), cause everyone who does it ain't doing it for the same reason. Don't put everyone who does something in the same box. Thats all I'm saying.

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Sharpened (May 31, 2012)

Where in Scripture does it say we are to sow things?


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## peachy200711 (Jun 1, 2012)

Deleted...


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## Poohbear (Jun 1, 2012)

Putting money at the pastor's feet during the sermon sounds like a form of worshipping man, not worshipping God.


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## Laela (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks button not enough, because I understand your points... my DH says the same thing you're saying

I've seen some folks do things in churches over the years that may have appear _off _to a visitor or someone else yet I just *knew* they were compelled to do so. Don't know how else to explain that..but I noticed but wasn't distracted. We are not in control of how God moves and whom He uses ...and we must be sensitive to the Holy Spirit to know when something is not of God...I really believe there are times people have been told by God to do certain things and it's more dangerous for them to disobey Him and not do it at all than to "save face". I had disobeyed Him in service before and had to ask for forgiveness, because I was frightened to move..why? worried about what folks will say.. not wanting to.. but my heart was POUNDING, so I know God was speaking to me. Yet I stayed in my seat... WRONG. 

The Bible is chock full of _outlandish behavior_, that served a purpose -- and I believe trusting God has a lot to do with it. Isaiah walking around barefoot and naked for a few years. Could a modern day prophet "get away with this"?   One married a prostitute...  yet  in all those examples, God has always been a God of order -- DIVINE ORDER, not man's order or what seems fit to man. I sometime have to remind myself of that whenever I have a strong opinion about something.





naturalgyrl5199 said:


> Giving money does make a person obedient to God....if He told them to.
> 
> Yes just singing while someone else is talking is a distraction but thats not what we are discussing here.
> 
> ...


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## nelcoy (Jun 1, 2012)

OT: This is a great thread and I'm loving the dialog. I need to be more active on this forum. I usually shy away from Christian topics being I don't want to feel judged or preached to, but this discussion is very mature despite differences of opinion.


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## Laela (Jun 1, 2012)

Hey chica, good to see you back...

Sowing is applicable to anything, IMHO...and the heart/intent is a major factor. Jesus had used parable of the sower in terms of the Gospel.. In the OT, there is Word on sowing the fields and harvest and first fruits, etc... literally. Those are "things" that also have spiritual significance today. While we all aren't farmers, many Christians use money for tithing and first fruits and offering... ALTHOUGH we can also tithe and offer our time and talents, etc. to serve God. Not trying to resuscitate argument on tithing... 

If a person is generous at heart and to others, God will be generous to them; it's a heart issue. One's heart or intent is either pure or it's not. So money being used to get more money is where we could go wrong..there are people who "sow" into others' lives..they give without expectation or to get. Isn't this how we are supposed to live ..being givers, freely like God our Father?  Sowing is very significant in the Kingdom of God. The earth's is the Lords, not mine. 


Galatians 6:7 says _"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows_"   
That WHAT could be anything. We're not adding or taking away from Scripture but personalizing it to our own lives, as revealed to us by the Holy Spirit and it could be a spiritual sowing or a physical one.

In Job, 4, it says" _as I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it._" 







Sharpened said:


> Where in Scripture does it say we are to *sow *things?


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## Shimmie (Jun 2, 2012)

Laela said:


> Hey chica, good to see you back...
> 
> Sowing is applicable to anything, IMHO...and the heart/intent is a major factor. Jesus had used parable of the sower in terms of the Gospel.. In the OT, there is Word on sowing the fields and harvest and first fruits, etc... literally. Those are "things" that also have spiritual significance today. While we all aren't farmers, many Christians use money for tithing and first fruits and offering... ALTHOUGH we can also tithe and offer our time and talents, etc. to serve God. Not trying to resuscitate argument on tithing...
> 
> ...



Wow!  Good Word    Love that scripture from Job 4.  I skipped right over that one and landed and stayed on Job 5 (love it there).    God has a way of bringing us 'back' to what we 'missed'.    

Off to Job 4, I go.


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## Sharpened (Jun 5, 2012)

> *1 Corinthians 3:6* I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.


 
  Did you know that there are over 100 passages that describe “seed” and “sowing” as spiritual tasks designed to “plant” the truth into the Elect so it could “produce the good fruit (too many passages to list) of the tree of life (Genesis 3:22, Proverbs 3:18, Proverbs 11:30).” Jesus and the apostles stressed the spiritual and became dead to the physical over time, depending upon the Lord in all things. The rituals were blotted out because Jesus wanted us to do as He did, which is the spread the truth (His seed) no matter what. 

  When His truth is planted and watered, the fruit is obedience, which is doing the faith. Giving as the Lord directed each believer has nothing to do with sowing, but obedience (which was the point Paul was writing about in Galatians 6:7 if you read the whole section). To say giving is the same as sowing places the onus upon our good works as enough instead of enduring the persecution of proclaiming His truth (taking up the cross). This distracts from the seeding the Evangel and/or stick others with the responsibility. What would be the result of we simply seeded His truth and obeyed the Spirit? The world would be a whole lot different that is certain.

  IRL, I tend to deal with those who give of themselves and get nothing in return (in human eyes). We have to remember that the reward we should want to receive is in the next life. There are those who go through numerous fiery trials and get only enough to survive day-to-day. Are they not blessed? Will their reward in heaven be less? This is why we have to transition out of this mindset on the physical.

  The OT was the shadow of good things to come (Hebrews 7:11-12, Hebrews 10:1), the _physical symbolic example_ of how to operate in the Spirit. The only concepts that were never amended on the cross are the Lord Himself, the Ten Commandments, and what sin is. Everything else now has a spiritual form and meaning beyond the physical representation God instituted. 

  Tithe and offerings *---->* freely giving everything we have, down to the clothes on our back and the shoes on our feet. The Ecclesia did not tithe, but gave so no one of the household of God went without. To do that today could get a group labeled as a cult, sadly.

  First-fruits of the physical harvest *---->* first-fruits of the spiritual harvest (the _people_, not physical items). See Romans 8:23, Romans 16:5, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, 1 Corinthians 16:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 2 Timothy 2:6, James 1:18, Revelation 14:4.

  A pastor could go on about this subject for the rest of his life. Don’t you see? If we keep trying to force past concepts and ideas on the spiritual present, the Ecclesia will not move forward in full power in this existence. Instead of labeling and adding all kinds of extraneous stuff, just do it! Do the faith! Why do you think the early believers lost their power after the last apostle died? The Gentiles took over and began to formulate replacements for the physical concepts the Jews gave them…without His approval! Do not take my word for it; seek the truth on this for yourselves.


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## HanaKuroi (Jun 5, 2012)

kweenameena

Was this in Maryland? I visited a megachurch there and they did this. It was so distracting. But then again I am AME and we are known for being supposedly reserved.


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## kweenameena (Jun 5, 2012)

HanaKuroi said:


> @kweenameena
> 
> Was this in Maryland? I visited a megachurch there and they did this. It was so distracting. But then again I am AME and we are known for being supposedly reserved.


 HanaKuroi Yep...it was in MD at a baptist church. 
I was raised baptist and I never saw this sort of thing.


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## kweenameena (Jun 5, 2012)

This Sunday...I went back to the church.
The "sowing of seeds" started early in the service as soon as the Pastor hit the stage. In fact, he hadn't even started preaching yet. 
Matter of fact, he didn't really preach at all at that service. He stood up there are talked about his health for about a quick 10 mins and that was the end of service.

They introduced a new song and I must admit, the song is just stirred up the spirit in the church. So because the congregation seemed to be in the moment and in the spirit because of the song....he did alter call where you ask who wants to join the church, who wants to get saved, etc. 
Usually that's done after the sermon but I guess he was doing what the Spirit was telling him to do.

Either way, after all of that spirit-filled music and the way the spirit was moving in the church....I was expecting a spirit-fill word/sermon. 
But he didn't come through at all. I left feeling unfulfilled.

IMO, it seemed that since he already got a bunch of folk to come down to get saved and join the church.....he didn't feel the sermon was necessary. Again, just my opinion. But why go to church if not for the sermon.


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## HanaKuroi (Jun 5, 2012)

This pastor was preaching about his plane and house and I thought he was going to say something about them being worldly things or something. He was saying how you could have what he had too. I could not believe it. Then this woman dressed flashy Walked down the aisle to the pulpit in the middle of the sermon. She threw one bill at a time and she had a fistful of money. I thought someone was going to stop her. I had never seen or heard of that before.    I kept thinking of a strip club.

Before that the choir was singing and clapping and then they started doing that move, straight out of the club where you draw back your arm then hunch over like you are whipping that "butt". Over and over. 

After the sermon we kept getting harassed to go down and be saved. The same man kept asking my husband and DH kept telling him we were saved. This happened at least four times. 

I was ready to go before we even walked in because of an incident outside of the church. 

I have never felt as though I wasted time at church before.


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## kweenameena (Jun 5, 2012)

HanaKuroi said:


> This pastor was preaching about his plane and house and I thought he was going to say something about them being worldly things or something. He was saying how you could have what he had too. I could not believe it. Then this woman dressed flashy Walked down the aisle to the pulpit in the middle of the sermon. She threw one bill at a time and she had a fistful of money. I thought someone was going to stop her. I had never seen or heard of that before. I kept thinking of a strip club.
> 
> Before that the choir was singing and clapping and then they started doing that move, straight out of the club where you draw back your arm then hunch over like you are whipping that "butt". Over and over.
> 
> ...


 
Are we still talking about the same big, beautiful, mega church in MD whose name starts with an F and ends with an A?


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## HanaKuroi (Jun 5, 2012)

kweenameena I have to ask Hubby if he remembers the name. This was when we lived there in 2008. 

We only went once.


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## Iwanthealthyhair67 (Jun 5, 2012)

At my church we've had many services where the sermon was not preached (though I'm sure it was not my pastors intent, but we are open to the moving of the holy spirit) sometime praise and worship can go on for 2-3 hours or prayer meeting lasting for just as long and no preaching or just music with hardly a song sung just worship, I've experienced where the whole church got ministered to (our church is small) but no one noticed that we were in church literally all day, when we got outside the sun had began to set.

IMO when the presence or glroy of God is in a service, there is no way you should leave left wanting even if no sermon was preached...





kweenameena said:


> This Sunday...I went back to the church.
> The "sowing of seeds" started early in the service as soon as the Pastor hit the stage. In fact, he hadn't even started preaching yet.
> Matter of fact, he didn't really preach at all at that service. He stood up there are talked about his health for about a quick 10 mins and that was the end of service.
> 
> ...


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## plainj (Jun 6, 2012)

Health&hair28 said:


> We as givers are instructed to sow into good ground. There is nothing wrong with knowing what or who you are sowing into.
> 
> *Why is it only laid at the Pastor's feet and no one else's? Why not throw money at the singers and musicians, they are ministering as well. Especially when the song is ministering to the person.*
> 
> ...


Oh this is so well put. Great answer and so so so true. Thank you.


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## ellebelle88 (Jun 6, 2012)

HanaKuroi said:


> *This pastor was preaching about his plane and house and I thought he was going to say something about them being worldly things or something. He was saying how you could have what he had too. I could not believe it.* Then this woman dressed flashy Walked down the aisle to the pulpit in the middle of the sermon. She threw one bill at a time and she had a fistful of money. I thought someone was going to stop her. I had never seen or heard of that before.    I kept thinking of a strip club.
> 
> Before that the choir was singing and clapping and then they started doing that move, straight out of the club where you draw back your arm then hunch over like you are whipping that "butt". Over and over.
> 
> ...



I've been to a couple churches like this. Scared the living mess out of me. Most of them were store-front churches and the pastor would talk about how you can have all the money you ever hoped for if you would just believe. Nothing about doing good, treating people right...but if you come to church, give to the church, your money will be doubled and tripled, etc. 

These are also the churches were "newcomers" are picked on. Has that ever happened to you all? I usually end up being dragged by some friends and as soon as the preachers sees me, they start talking to me about stuff that's completely wrong. One preacher asked me did I play the piano because she's seeing me doing something with my hands. The other called me up to be saved because he saw my spirit needed saving. I offended both of them because I was like "WTF!! No!" Both times.


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## plainj (Jun 6, 2012)

ellebelle88 said:


> I've been to a couple churches like this. Scared the living mess out of me. Most of them were store-front churches and the pastor would talk about how you can have all the money you ever hoped for if you would just believe. Nothing about doing good, treating people right...but if you come to church, give to the church, your money will be doubled and tripled, etc.
> 
> *These are also the churches were "newcomers" are picked on.* Has that ever happened to you all? I usually end up being dragged by some friends and as soon as the preachers sees me, they start talking to me about stuff that's completely wrong. One preacher asked me did I play the piano because she's seeing me doing something with my hands. The other called me up to be saved because he saw my spirit needed saving. I offended both of them because I was like "WTF!! No!" Both times.


Yes! This was happening at my old church. The pastor would always call out the visitors and tell them all the blessings they were about to get. It seemed like he was buttering them up. Lol. Ugh. *shrug*


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## Shimmie (Jun 7, 2012)

Iwanthealthyhair67 said:


> At my church we've had many services where the sermon was not preached (though I'm sure it was not my pastors intent, but we are open to the moving of the holy spirit) sometime praise and worship can go on for 2-3 hours or prayer meeting lasting for just as long and no preaching or just music with hardly a song sung just worship, I've experienced where the whole church got ministered to (our church is small) but no one noticed that we were in church literally all day, when we got outside the sun had began to set.
> 
> IMO when the presence or glroy of God is in a service, there is no way you should leave left wanting even if no sermon was preached...



Awesome Truth!  Church is about Worship and Honouring God.  There are many times when 'words' are simply not needed nor warranted.    Just the presence of God, the congregation flowing in the Holy Spirit.  

This is what happened in the "Upper Room" during Pentacost.   No words, just worship.   And that's when the Holy Spirit felt at home in the hearts of all who were there and He was free to flow.    

Thanks for posting this Iwanthealthyhair67.   It's no small wonder why your prayers are so on fire.   You have the heart of worship, indeed flowing abundantly from within.


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## kab (Jun 12, 2012)

Doesn't bother me at all.  This is done at my church but it's an offering to the church.  Every church that does this is not putting   that in the pastor's pocket.  My pastor does not take a salary but I would not care if he did.  And as the previous poster stated, in Acts this is listed in two places.


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