# TITHES: on Gross or Net???



## Poohbear (May 11, 2005)

The Bible instructs us  to give a tenth of 'everything' in several verses in the following books: Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Nehemiah, Malachi, Luke, and Hebrews.

When it comes to receiving a pay check as your main source of income, do you give a tenth on your gross or net? Does it really matter? Wouldn't the net amount be your actual income after taxes/deductions are taken out?

What exactly is a tenth of one's income? A tenth on the total amount you earn or a tenth on the total amount you bring home?

Also, do you tithe on other sources of income you may receive besides your paycheck from your job/career?

Thanks in advance!!!


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## Lorraine (May 11, 2005)

I thought it was gross.


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## kisz4tj (May 11, 2005)

I've always done gross.  When I've had businesses on the side I also tithed on that income as well.


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## good2uuuu (May 11, 2005)

I use to do net, but I do gross now. I just had this inner feeling that that's what I nedded to be doing.  As far as monetary gifts are concerned, I don't tithe on them because that money has already been tithed by the giver. Of course I'm not sure if this is the what I should do or not, but I don't feel any other conviction on the gift money.


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## ThickHair (May 11, 2005)

I believe it is gross, but I don't believe at the time that there would have been gross or net.


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## JuJuBoo (May 11, 2005)

Gross...It's not God's fault that we live in America and they take a fat chunk out of our checks.


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## BlkHoneyLuv2U (May 11, 2005)

Co-signing with what they said, I do gross also.


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## Kalani (May 11, 2005)

I tithe on gross.


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## Poohbear (May 11, 2005)

Thanks ladies for your responses!!!


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## Sweet C (May 11, 2005)

I do gross for my tithes.


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## Honeyhips (May 11, 2005)

I do gross, and I even tithed on my tax return. I also try tithe on all income I receive. 

Do you tithe on a loan?


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## ThickHair (May 11, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Do you tithe on a loan?


Good question.  I wouldn't think so since you are paying the money back.  Also if you did, would you tithe on the principle or the whole amount being repaid (fees included)?  This is enough to give you a headache.


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## sprungonhairboards (May 11, 2005)

If you tithe on gross then tithe on a tax refund aren't you tithing on the same money twice?


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 11, 2005)

Yes. But you can also see the extra money as offering.  We are obliged to give tithes AND offering.

BTW, I tithe on gross.  Gross is your salary, net is what is left over after the feds get to it. BUT this is the same as any other bill.  It just happens that the feds make you pay it on pay day.



			
				sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> If you tithe on gross then tithe on a tax refund aren't you tithing on the same money twice?


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## sprungonhairboards (May 11, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> Yes. But you can also see the extra money as offering.  We are obliged to give tithes AND offering.
> 
> BTW, I tithe on gross.  Gross is your salary, net is what is left over after the feds get to it. BUT this is the same as any other bill.  It just happens that the feds make you pay it on pay day.




Tax refunds aren't 'extra' or 'free' money. It's money you've already earned and paid out, you're just getting it later, if you're lucky enough to get a refund and not owe, kind of like deferred payment courtesy of the gov't  

Thats why I'm saying, if you tithe on gross, youre tithing twice on the same money. If you tithed on net then tithed on your return it seems that would be adequate (as far as what's required of us not what your heart leads you to do


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 11, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> Tax refunds aren't 'extra' or 'free' money. It's money you've already earned and paid out, you're just getting it later, if you're lucky enough to get a refund and not owe, kind of like deferred payment courtesy of the gov't



Yes I agree with this.  It would be double tithing, that's why I would say its more of a free will offering. Money you give over and above your tithe if you wanted to give.



			
				sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> Thats why I'm saying, if you tithe on gross, youre tithing twice on the same money.



You are only double tithing on the amount of the refund.



			
				sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> If you tithed on net then tithed on your return it seems that would be adequate (as far as what's required of us not what your heart leads you to do



I don't agree with this statement.  You net and tax refunds have nothing to do with your increase.   Let says you set your deductions so that you neither owe or get a refund and you only tithe on net.  You are not giving God the tithe off the part you gave to the gov't.  It would be like having your car payment taken directly out of your paycheck yet only paying tithe on the net.  Taxes are just another bill.


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## TrustMeLove (May 11, 2005)

I personally don't believe in tithing..I haven't seen a verse in the new testament commanding tithing. From reading the new testament, Im am left with the impression of giving freely. If there is a verse please post it so I can be made aware of my error.

Sometimes my only income is $50 so my tithe would be..5 dollars but I give 10, just because thats whats on my heart. sometimes my income is 100, but I will give 5, because im in dire straights and the lord allowed me to get that 100 to pay bills that he knows ive been asking to be paid.

So, I give freely I don't tithe. Thats just me. I this doctrine came to me out of that story with the pharisses and that lady that gave basically her last penny. While the pharisses were giving their 10%, her last penny was seen as the greater offering. Because she was giving all that she had. So to me sometimes 10% isn't good enough..so I let the Lord lead me in my giving.

-Trust.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (May 11, 2005)

I don't think God's concerned about things like this because it causes drama and confusion. As long as we give our tithes and offerings with a pure heart, that's all that matters.


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## Honeyhips (May 11, 2005)

Yeah, I did it anyone, really without thinking.  But I wish I would have marked it as an offering and not a tithe. 





			
				sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> If you tithe on gross then tithe on a tax refund aren't you tithing on the same money twice?


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## JuJuBoo (May 11, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> Do you tithe on a loan?




shoot, loans are *NOT* "increase", so NO! 

Lawd, if I tithed off my student loans I'd be 10% deeper into student debt! :faint:


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## Honeyhips (May 11, 2005)

I was also thinking about the kind of loan from a parent without the principle.  when I was out of work, my Mother and Father hit me up a few times.  I think I tithed on what I could.  





			
				ThickHair said:
			
		

> Good question. I wouldn't think so since you are paying the money back. Also if you did, would you tithe on the principle or the whole amount being repaid (fees included)? This is enough to give you a headache.


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## sithembile (May 11, 2005)

I tithe gross, it is my "first fruit", which I give out of love and under the compulsion of the Holy Spirit.


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## angaliquew (May 11, 2005)

I tithe off of my net income...I don't see the point in tithing off of money (gross) you don't even get.


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## EbonyEyes (May 11, 2005)

I tithe on net earnings and then tithe on any tax refund I get.  If the holy spirit tells me to give more then I will.

-Ebony


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## oglorious1 (May 11, 2005)

GROSS fo sho'


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## JuJuBoo (May 12, 2005)

When you think about it, the difference between Net & Gross isn't really that much anyway. When I got my job and I was debating gross vs. net, I looked at the numbers and was like "please, I wouldn't even save that much tithing net, so why be stingy with God."


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## sprungonhairboards (May 12, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> I don't agree with this statement.  You net and tax refunds have nothing to do with your increase.   *Let says you set your deductions so that you neither owe or get a refund and you only tithe on net.  You are not giving God the tithe off the part you gave to the gov't.*  It would be like having your car payment taken directly out of your paycheck yet only paying tithe on the net.  Taxes are just another bill.



Well since you put it like that...  
I guess I was thinking about my individual situation, where I always get a refund and my net and gross are pretty equal at the end of the year. I also never looked at taxes as another bill, I always looked at it as money I *don't * make   especially before I started actually _getting _ refunds.

I see what you mean though.


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 12, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> Well since you put it like that...
> I guess I was thinking about my individual situation, where I always get a refund and my net and gross are pretty equal at the end of the year. I also never looked at taxes as another bill, *I always looked at it as money I don't  make*   especially before I started actually _getting _ refunds.
> 
> I see what you mean though.



That's what the feds want you to believe so you don't make a big stink about so much taxes being taken out.  If we had to pay taxes as a seperate bill, after we took home our gross, I promise you our taxes wouldn't be so high.  People would be making a big stink over that HUGE payment.  Its the smartest thing the Feds have ever done. B4 people would have to pay there taxes in one lump sum on 4/15.


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## WhipEffectz1 (May 12, 2005)

I tithed gross and nothing less. You be stingy with the Lord and he will be stingy with blessings!


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## ThursdayGirl (May 12, 2005)

I tithe the gross!


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## MissB (May 13, 2005)

I tithe on net income minus benefits (401k, health, dental, etc.).  When I receive my tax refund, then I give 10% of the refund to the church.


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## keni5 (May 14, 2005)

I dont tithe period. I will help some in need personally though!


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## Poohbear (May 14, 2005)

keni5 said:
			
		

> I dont tithe period. I will help some in need personally though!


is there a reason why u do not tithe?


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## JuJuBoo (May 15, 2005)

keni5 said:
			
		

> I dont tithe period. I will help some in need personally though!



Hey  I commend you for giving to those in need, but girlfriend, tithing is the best investment you'll ever make!!!  I know from experience. It has the best return ever!


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## sugaplum (May 16, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> I tithe off of my net income...I don't see the point in tithing off of money (gross) you don't even get.



I agree angaliquew.  This is the same thing I do as well.


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## victorious (May 16, 2005)

I tithe on the gross because that's the total I earned.

The government taxes, medical insurance premiums, and retirement deductions are all automatic payments from my check.


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## InsertCleverNameHere (May 16, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> I tithe off of my net income...I don't see the point in tithing off of money (gross) you don't even get.


 
I agree. Its not like you have a choice to pay taxes. It comes out from the get go so it was never mine to begin with. IMO if you are tithing your refund as well you should be straight anyway.

Besides, if someone is tithing (gross or net) and doing offering, more than likely they are far exceeding 10% anyway.


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 16, 2005)

Taxes are payments for services rendered.  Just like you pay your telephone bill and get a service in return, your taxes are a bill for services you receive.  You are protected by the military, you use gov't roads, you watch tv (public airways) that are controlled by the gov't, you have the use of parks, etc.  Taxes is just like another bill it just happens to be taken out at the same time you receive your paycheck.

If you were able to have your telephone bill, mortgage or rent bill, and or any other bill automatically deducted from your paycheck, would you pay tithe only the net still? 

Why would taxes be considered any different from these bills?


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## angaliquew (May 16, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> Taxes are payments for services rendered.  Just like you pay your telephone bill and get a service in return, your taxes are a bill for services you receive.  You are protected by the military, you use gov't roads, you watch tv (public airways) that are controlled by the gov't, you have the use of parks, etc.  Taxes is just like another bill it just happens to be taken out at the same time you receive your paycheck.
> 
> If you were able to have your telephone bill, mortgage or rent bill, and or any other bill automatically deducted from your paycheck, would you pay tithe only the net still?
> 
> Why would taxes be considered any different from these bills?




I see the point you're trying to make, but just like you stated taxes are another bill, so would you use the money you owe the phone company to pay tithes. Probably not because that is money you owe to that company.  

Personally I have not come across any verse in the bible that specifically states what to tithe off of (gross or net) so I think each person has to use wisdom and not get into bondage over this.  

If you can tithe off of your gross I feel that is great (you can never give too much to God) but if you can only afford to tithe off of your net, I fill that you will be equally bless because God looks at your heart and not the dollar amount.


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## MomofThreeBoys (May 16, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> I see the point you're trying to make, but just like you stated taxes are another bill, *so would you use the money you owe the phone company to pay tithes. *Probably not because that is money you owe to that company.



Yes, when you pay tithes on net, this is what you are doing. You pay tithes and then pay your phone bill, rent, groceries, hair care products etc. 

*



			Personally I have not come across any verse in the bible that specifically states what to tithe off of (gross or net)
		
Click to expand...

*
It's not about net or gross, its about tithing on your increase. When you get a salary offer, do you get an offer amount with your gross or net?  You receive a salary offer with your gross amount.  

Also, the government taxes you on your gross b/c that is your increase.   Why would tithes be any different?


> *so I think each person has to use wisdom and not get into bondage over this. *



You must do what the Lord convicts you to do.  If the Lord has not convicted you on tithing on gross, that is fine.  It doesn't matter to me whether you tithe on gross or net.  I used to tithe on net and was very staunch on the issue until the Lord convicted me otherwise. Someone presented the issues to me and then I researched it for myself.  I have seen huge difference in my financial situation since tithing on gross! I have more money now than then! Praise God!! 

Bottom line is you have to do what the _*Lord*_ convicts youto do.  As long as you are following God's orders, you will be blessed  !


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## JuJuBoo (May 16, 2005)

angaliquew said:
			
		

> Personally I have not come across any verse in the bible that specifically states what to tithe off of (gross or net) so I think each person has to use wisdom and not get into bondage over this.



Not specifically "gross" or "net", but the BIble does say to give your "first fruits." 

Now you have to think, is 10% AFTER taxes the "first fruits"?? I'm not saying yes or no, just giving something for everyone to think about...


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## Poohbear (May 16, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> Not specifically "gross" or "net", but the BIble does say to give your "first fruits."
> 
> Now you have to think, is 10% AFTER taxes the "first fruits"?? I'm not saying yes or no, just giving something for everyone to think about...


Thanks for pointing this out to me. I've read through the whole thread before I made a post about my situation. This is the reason why I posted this topic.

Anyway, I did it the opposite way of what others have done. I used to tithe on Gross and I now tithe on Net. When I tithed on Gross, I used to live at home with my parents where I could afford to do this. When I moved out in my own apartment where I had to pay for my own stuff, when I got a better job which took out more taxes/deductions, I started tithing on my Net. I was going by what RealLuvsAoxymoron, angaliquew, and a few others have said who agree with tithing on Net. I felt like I was tithing on what the government takes out of my paycheck and found that I was giving too much than I could afford. I felt like why tithe on the money that I don't get to bring home or that doesn't direct deposit into my account? When I tithe on Net, I didn't feel like I was cheating God out of his money because I'm giving from my heart.

Right now I am unemployed and don't have any earnings to tithe on. Is that okay? Once I get another job and move back home, I think I will start back tithing on Gross. Btw, can you point on what verse in the Bible that says to give your first fruits? 

Thanks in advance, JuJuBoo!


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## Poohbear (May 16, 2005)

I also found this as a commentary for 2 Corinthians 8:10-15 which talks about purpose and principles of tithing:

_The Corinthian church had money, and apparently they planned to collect money for the Jerusalem churches "a year ago".  Paul challenged them to act on their plans.  Four principles of giving emerge here:_
_1) your willingness to give cheerfully is more important than the amount you give_
_2) you should strive to fulfill your financial committments_
_3) if you give to others in need, they will in turn help you when you are in need_
_4) you should give as a response to Christ, not for anything you can get out of it.  How you give reflects your devotion to Christ._

_How do you decide how much to give? What about differences in financial resources Christians have? Paul gave the Corinthian church several principles to follow:_
_1) each person should follow through on previous promises_
_2) each person should give as much as he is able_
_3) each person must make up his own mind how much to give_
_4) each person should give in proportion to what God has given. God gives to us so we can give to others,_

_Paul says we should give what we have, not what we don't have. Sacrificial giving must be responsible. Paul wants believers to give generously but not to the extent that those who depend on the givers must go without having their basic needs met. Give until it hurts but don't give so that it hurts your family and/or relatives needing your financial support._

I think after I read this commentary over a year ago, it let me to my decision to tithe on net instead of gross.  I will still look at more verses on tithing to see what else I discover.


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## Poohbear (May 16, 2005)

Here is another scripture about principles of tithing which refers to the widow who gave all she had. It's in Mark 12:41-44 and Luke 21:1-4. Here are some explanations of the scripture:

_There were several boxes in the Twmple where money could be placed. Some were for collecting the temple tax from Jewish males; the others were for freewill offerings. These particular collection boxes were probably in the Court of Women._

_In the Lord's eyes, this poor widow gave more than all the others put together, although her gift was by far the smallest. The value of a gift is not determined by its amount, but by the spirit in which it is given. A gift given grudgingly or for recognition loses its value. When you give, take heart-gifts of any size are pleasing to God when they are given out of gratitude and generosity._

_This widow gave all she had, in stark contrast to the way most of us handle our money. When we consider giving a certain percentage of our income a great accomplishment, we resemble those who gave "of their abundance." Here, jesus is admiring generous and sacrificial giving. As believers, we should consider increasing our giving--whether of money, time, or talents--to a point beyond convenience or safety._


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## JuJuBoo (May 16, 2005)

Exodus 34:26
"You shall bring the very first of the first fruits of your soil into the house of the LORD your God."


this is one of several verses throughout scripture that talk about giving your first fruits to God. We keep seeing the pattern of God always getting the first--the first born, the first fruits, etc...

and historically, a tithe is meant a "tenth" of your earnings.


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## JuJuBoo (May 16, 2005)

Ladies, when you realize that God is your provider (not your job, or your salary, or your husband, or you education, but *GOD*) the difference between gross and net is minimal. Besides, it's not your money anyway!


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## Poohbear (May 16, 2005)

Thanks JuJuBoo for providing the verse.  And I forgot about that point you made about money not being ours anyway. It's God's since He is our ultimate provider.  Thanks for your advice!


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## tanyshar (May 16, 2005)

I tithe on my net and any deductions that I authorize are taking into consideration. The word of GOD is just that and there are many interpetations I believe you should give as the spirit leads you, even when you give an offering you should acknowledge GOD b/c he will direct you in what to give. I have never been convicted in my tithing and GOD has been truly supplying my needs since I have been in the ministry but it is definatly the intention behind your giving that seals the blessing that follows. The word says that GOD loves a cheerful giver! 
I also believe that you tithe on every increase 
ex. My mom gives me $10, then $1 is added to my tithes it doesnt make a difference and it is automatic.
I also pay tithes on my income tax and yes I get all my fed and state back plus earned income. GOD has been good to me! As he said to martha dont waste your time on trivial things.
I believe that if you put your complete trust in HIM and lean not to your own understanding everything else will fall into place.
Another thing I attend services 3x/week where I give an offering bible study and sunday school where an offering is given(smaller than regular sevices but still an offering).
Do not do something b/c someone else is doing it or it sounds good but pray and search the scrictures and open yourself to receive of the holy spirit.


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## EbonyEyes (May 17, 2005)

Guess what the sermon was on this past Sunday

.....

....

.....

Generous giving!!  

The pastor talked about how when the praise team and the choirs are singing, the congregation is excited and shouting "hallelujah" and "praise the Lord," but as soon as it's time for the offering, the energy just dies.  It happens EVERY time at church.  It's wierd to me because offering is one of my favorite parts of service.

The pastor also mentioned tithing a little.

But the focal point of the sermon was being a cheerful giver and praying to God about how we are to give back to him what is already his.

When I tithe my net income, I feel so good.  I am grateful for how God has blessed me and I cheerfully give.  I do not feel convicted because I don't tithe my gross earnings.  

Maybe one day, the lord will place it on my heart to tithe gross.  Maybe in the future, he would like me to give 15% of my income.  But whatever the Lord desires me to do, I will cheerfully do it.

If you tithe gross...great.  If you tithe net....great.  As long as you are giving cheerfully and NOT under compulsion and because other people say you should do it.

If you are writing your check while mumbling under your breath or thinking "Well, I wanna be blessed by God, so I better write this check" then your heart is not in the right place.  I don't care whether you are tithing gross, tithing net, giving 5%, or giving 20%.  The heart has to be right for God to be pleased.

II Corinthians 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in *his* heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

-Ebony


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## Poohbear (May 17, 2005)

thanks tanyshar and EbonyEyes for another great perspective.


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## angaliquew (May 17, 2005)

EbonyEyes said:
			
		

> Guess what the sermon was on this past Sunday
> 
> .....
> 
> ...



I think you summed it up nicely


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## Honeyhips (May 17, 2005)

Man I think I blew it on Sunday. 


			
				JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> Ladies, when you realize that God is your provider (not your job, or your salary, or your husband, or you education, but *GOD*) the difference between gross and net is minimal. Besides, it's not your money anyway!


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## WhipEffectz1 (May 17, 2005)

natalied said:
			
		

> Yes, when you pay tithes on net, this is what you are doing. You pay tithes and then pay your phone bill, rent, groceries, hair care products etc.
> 
> *
> *
> ...



Well said!


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## EbonyEyes (May 17, 2005)

Testimony alert!!

My mom and I were having one of our usual discussions on God, how wonderful He is, etc.  

She mentioned how there were times when money was really tight (My parents did really well in hiding this from my sister and me).  But, she and dad DID NOT stop tithing.  Despite their financial difficulties, they still gave God his due and cheerfully did so.  Mom says that it was mathematically impossible for them to have made it through those tough times.  But God made a way out of no way because of my parent's faithfulness.

FYI, my parents tithe on their gross earnings plus give extra to our church's building fund, and contribute to charities.

-Ebony


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