# Honoring the Sabbath New Testament Style (seeking insight)



## PaperClip (Feb 17, 2009)

It's been on my heart to explore honoring the sabbath in a more demonstrative and disciplined way.

I am acquainted with a couple of Seventh-Day Adventists from school and also being aware of the Jewish honoring of the sabbath as well and I appreciate the fellowship with other believers and the discipline to focus attention on the things of God.

I'm curious as to how I may begin to approach honoring the sabbath as informed by New Testament teachings.

Disclaimer: I do not start this thread to be combative. I am thinking out loud and should I probe further into the content of the post, it is not to be argumentative but to explore for understanding and insight.

I thank you in advance for your time and attention to my inquiry.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 18, 2009)

*
I think I may have the same inquiry as you to an extent. 

We can look at this historically and go with the observance being changed over the years b/c of pagan days (to either coincide with to get the pagans to observe Christ or to disassociate w/ pagan days) it depends on who tells it.

We can look at it from the perspective that they teach Christians that Jesus rose on a Sunday and by doing so he "started a new thing". But this would contradict the fact that Jesus was a practicing or observant Jew and he observed all the Jewish rules including the Sabbath (Shabbat). But He healed on the Sabbath which was out of lawful order. So again, establishing a "new thing". (Quotes b/c I've heard this from various pastors).

We could look at it from that passage that says this could be a disputable matter Romans 14:5 specifically, and that each person needs to be convinced in his or her own mind.

We could look at the OT where there are some laws where God said that we must observe unto the end of the age (not sure what they are). 

I used to just say as long as one observes any day as a Sabbath day but the commandment is two fold: observe AND  keep it holy (or "remember the sabbath BY keeping it holy"). So then we must not only decide which day is the sabbath but determine what is meant by keep it holy.

The bible generally considered sundown Friday to sundown Saturday as the sabbath.




			Mark 2:23-27
Lord of the Sabbath
 23One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24The Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"

 25He answered, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."

 27Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."
		
Click to expand...





			Isaiah 58:13-14 (New International Version)

 13 "If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
       and from doing as you please on my holy day,
       if you call the Sabbath a delight
       and the LORD's holy day honorable,
       and if you honor it by not going your own way
       and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,

 14 then you will find your joy in the LORD,
       and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land
       and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob."
       The mouth of the LORD has spoken.
		
Click to expand...


Something I found (still assimilating):
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/keeping_it_holy.asp


Hmmmm, people chime in and let us reason together.  Thanks, FS. 
*


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 18, 2009)

When you find out what you should or should not do on christian sabbath, please post it.  Difficult to find good references on what christian do - not Jews...I tried.  Concerning the post mentioning what Jesus did in the field, His example was about David and companions as they were hungry.  Perhaps they did it to preserve their lives.  Saving a life and performing an act normally forbidden on the Sabbath is permissible.  Maybe the example was to point that out as the higher act.  Jesus was an observant Jew, totally.  He never changed the Law.


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 18, 2009)

T.D. Jakes preached an amazing message on the Sabbath from the New Testament. I think you might find it interesting. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtqXAeIrt3s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjfemrmi690&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq_pdAAZePo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq_pdAAZePo&feature=related

I'm in a hurry and can't type long but I agree with the message but also as a personal choice, keep my Sunday's Holy and restful.


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## PaperClip (Feb 18, 2009)

1star said:


> _*I think I may have the same inquiry as you to an extent. *_
> 
> _*We can look at this historically and go with the observance being changed over the years b/c of pagan days (to either coincide with to get the pagans to observe Christ or to disassociate w/ pagan days) it depends on who tells it.*_
> 
> ...


 
And thank you, 1Star
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



 for this rich, rich food for thought....


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

SDA's honor the Sabbath according to the Old and New Testament, particularly as Jesus Christ did. Just to clarify for any one.

ETA: My apologies. I believe I misunderstood the thread. That's exactly what I get for speed reading. Sorry about that.


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## PaperClip (Feb 18, 2009)

divya said:


> SDA's honor the Sabbath according to the Old and New Testament, particularly as Jesus Christ did. Just to clarify for any one. Alright, I'm out...


 
My apologies if my post implied that SDAs did not observe the Sabbath beyond the New, Old, or other Testaments.

I'd like to understand the balance/link of Sabbath observance from/between both testaments.

What I've observed is that for both SDAs and Jews, the Sabbath observance is so ingrained in the CULTURE of these faiths; this is not necessarily the case with contemporary Protestant/Pentecostal Christianity. There may be pockets of these Protestant/Pentecostal Christian families/churches/groups that have an actual observance but in my upbringing and adulthood and church attendance, there has not ever been that practice of the actual 24-hour ritual of observing the Sabbath....

So even as I would like to start an actual Sabbath observance, I may be doing this by myself unless/until I can persuade others to join me. That's another reason that I'd like deeper understanding about Sabbath observance.


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> T.D. Jakes preached an amazing message on the Sabbath from the New Testament. I think you might find it interesting.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtqXAeIrt3s
> 
> ...



Here are sermons in response to T.D. Jakes message. T.D. Jakes did not give much Scriptural support for his message. He talks about _worshiping_ God on Sunday and everyday, which is correct. However, he does not realize that keeping the Sabbath is far more than worshiping at church. One must understand the concept of keeping the Sabbath holy. 

So here are the sermons regarding God's Sabbath, with lots Scriptural bases. 

http://www.cpcsda.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=25149

There are two that are most helpful. 

Henry Wright - *Keep the Sabbath Holy*- 1/05/2008 
Henry Wright - *The Sabbath in the New Testament*- 1/12/2008. 

The entire series is helpful, however.


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> My apologies if my post implied that SDAs did not observe the Sabbath beyond the New, Old, or other Testaments.
> 
> I'd like to understand the balance/link of Sabbath observance from/between both testaments.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clarification and I understand the distinctions that you see. There is thread that Sabbath keepers here have posted about how to keep the Sabbath holy. Christian Sabbatarians likely keep Sabbath differently from most Jews, with the exception of Messianic Jews (who are Christian). However, you may find the thread helpful as far as activities and such. I'll find it and bump it.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 18, 2009)

In essence the sabbath is observed sundown to sundown fri - sat. On our calendar sat is the 7th day. Sabbath is supposed to mean 7th and shabbat is supposed to mean rest (I think not sure). As far as I'm concerned if we humans want to be technical then Christians should be observing that as the shabbat. I don think that there is any instruction as to what day one is required to observe or practice collective worship (aka church service) I think that ppl worship on sunday which was chosen 1 to not coincide w/ the pagan saturn's day (aka saturday) and also bc it is believed that jesus rose on the 3rd day which is said to be a sunday. 

My opinion is the shabbat is. Saturday.


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 18, 2009)

divya said:


> Here are sermons in response to T.D. Jakes message. T.D. Jakes did not give much Scriptural support for his message. He talks about _worshiping_ God on Sunday and everyday, which is correct. However, he does not realize that keeping the Sabbath is far more than worshiping at church. One must understand the concept of keeping the Sabbath holy.
> 
> So here are the sermons regarding God's Sabbath, with lots Scriptural bases.
> 
> ...


 
That was where he started, yes. But I think you should watch the whole thing and see where he ended up.


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> That was where he started, yes. But I think you should watch the whole thing and see where he ended up.



Yes, I watched the video in its entirety a while back and actually made a thread about it here. He, like the majority of people, are likely very sincere in their beliefs on the issue. However, I do still strongly disagree with his ending, as it is not in accordance with Scripture.


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## PaperClip (Feb 18, 2009)

Chiming into say that I appreciate the links and references and I will go through them when I can give my full attention to them.... 

I know this topic has been discussed here several times over.... I wanted a "fresh", unbiased approach to the topic at this point in time....


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

1star said:


> In essence the sabbath is observed sundown to sundown fri - sat. On our calendar sat is the 7th day. Sabbath is supposed to mean 7th and shabbat is supposed to mean rest (I think not sure). As far as I'm concerned if we humans want to be technical then Christians should be observing that as the shabbat. I don think that there is any instruction as to what day one is required to observe or practice collective worship (aka church service) I think that ppl worship on sunday which was chosen 1 to not coincide w/ the pagan saturn's day (aka saturday) and also bc it is believed that jesus rose on the 3rd day which is said to be a sunday.
> 
> My opinion is the shabbat is. Saturday.



We should observe Sabbath/Shabbat as it is the seventh day.  It was instituted at Creation (Genesis 2:3), long before the first Jew, and long before pagan originated weekly day names that we used now. However, Sunday worship came in with the mixture of pagan worship of the sun god Mithra and Roman Catholicism. The latter made the decision to compel Christians to worship on the same day as sun god worshipers in exchange for power. Many people may not realize this is the case, but Roman Catholic clergy have acknowledge Sunday worship as their institution, rather than God's institution. However, we can see that where the Roman empire could not completely reach, the true Sabbath keeping was maintained, see Ethiopia. In Ghana, there is also evidence of regard for the seventh day as God's day among the Akan.

Yes, it is true that many Christians worship on the 3rd day because of Christ's resurrection. However, the Scriptures state in Romans 6 that _baptism_ is the action we take to commemorate Jesus' death and resurrection.


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Chiming into say that I appreciate the links and references and I will go through them when I can give my full attention to them....
> 
> I know this topic has been discussed here several times over.... I wanted a "fresh", unbiased approach to the topic at this point in time....



As you study, let me know if you have any questions. I'll be glad to point to Scriptures alone without giving any personal input. I also realize that your intent in the initial post may have been different from my responses, as well as others. My apologies if I moved in an undesired direction. If you'd like any info on Sabbath keeping practices, such as preparation before, activities during etc., feel free to ask as well. Take care and God Bless.


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## PaperClip (Feb 18, 2009)

Ok... so what I read you all saying here is this: culture and religious institutional influence (as interpreted from scripture) has played a HUGE part in shaping the practice of Shabbat/Sabbath on both sides (those who practice the 24-hour ritual and those who do not/do other things to honor the Sabbath).

So it seems from scripture that the Lord God does not completely invade and eradicate existing culture to establish His ways of healthy living (I'm thinking about the Israelites and how the Lord changed and tweaked things without completely erasing the Israelite rituals and practices). 

So I'm thinking out loud about what Sabbath honoring sincerely looks like for me...from my cultural vantage point. There are some OT practices that are no longer necessary, other practices that are permissible, other practices that are required....

Ultimately I know that I have to place this question before the Lord and He will lead and guide me in the way that pleases Him....


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Ok... so what I read you all saying here is this: culture and religious institutional influence (as interpreted from scripture) has played a HUGE part in shaping the practice of Shabbat/Sabbath on both sides (those who practice the 24-hour ritual and those who do not/do other things to honor the Sabbath).
> 
> So it seems from scripture that the Lord God does not completely invade and eradicate existing culture to establish His ways of healthy living (I'm thinking about the Israelites and how the Lord changed and tweaked things without completely erasing the Israelite rituals and practices).
> 
> ...



Jesus' example in the New Testament is a great place to start when it comes to Sabbath. For example, He would do good deeds for others on the Sabbath, such as healing, but the Pharisees and others would criticize Him and say that He was "working." He then told them "Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace" Mark 3:4.  So as Christians, we understand we ought to understanding the things that pleasing to Jesus on Sabbath and focused on Him. 

Of course we keep in mind Exodus 20:8-11, to ensure that we our minds are always stayed on Him during that period of time, rather than on worldly cares. But as far as permissible practices, feeding the homeless, witnessing, spending time in nature etc. would likely be in the spirit of Sabbath keeping, when we look at the things Jesus did. This may not be OT v. NT but certainly a difference that Jesus set out as far as Sabbath-keeping. 

As far as OT v. NT, I think that people differ in understanding what was nailed to the cross when it comes to ordinances given to Moses, the Ten Commandments etc., which of course affects Sabbath keeping. And of course, what the role of baptism is...


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## PaperClip (Feb 18, 2009)

So a few years back I browsed this book at the library which prompted me to inquire about honoring the Sabbath... but I did not pursue a full-blown study into it but it has been on my heart since then:

Sabbath keeping: finding freedom in the rhythms of rest (2005)
By Baab, Lynne M.

Seems like I recall this book saying that it was less about the day of the Sabbath and more of honoring the principle of the Sabbath: to take the time to specifically reflect on the Lord and rest for a designated amount of time, e.g., 12 or 24 hours.

I just noticed this new book at the library so I'm going to check it out as well:

A day apart : how Jews, Christians, and Muslims find faith, freedom, and joy on the Sabbath (2007)
by Ringwald, Christopher D. 


Here's the library's description:

The Sabbath is the original feast day, a day of joy and freedom from work, a holy day that allows us to reconnect with God, our fellows and nature. Now, in a compelling blend of journalism, scholarship and personal memoir, Christopher D. Ringwald examines the Sabbath from Creation to the present, weaving together the stories of three families, three religions and three thousand years of history. A Day Apart is the first book to examine the Sabbath in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. A marvelously readable book, it offers a fascinating portrait of the basics of the three Sabbaths--the Muslim Juma on Friday, the Jewish Shabbat on Saturday and the Christian Lord's Day on Sunday--and introducesus to three families, including Ringwald's own, and shows how they observe the holy day and what it means to them. The heart of the book recounts the history of the Sabbath, ranging from the Creation story and Moses on Mount Sinai, to the teachings of Jesus and Muhammad, the impact of the Protestant Reformation and the Industrial Revolution, and the rise of the modern weekend. Ringwald shows that the Sabbath instinct, to observe a special day of withdrawal and repose, is universal. Indeed, all religions and philosophies teach that life is more than toil, that time should be set aside for contemplation, enjoyment and culture.


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

These sound like great books. Thank you for sharing. I'm going to look for those in my area library as well.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 18, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> My apologies if my post implied that SDAs did not observe the Sabbath beyond the New, Old, or other Testaments.
> 
> I'd like to understand the balance/link of Sabbath observance from/between both testaments.
> 
> ...


 
I think you need to find out what you will and will not be doing for the Sabbath and when it will start, sundown to sundown or another timeframe?  If you do choose to do as Jesus did, as someone said, then there will be very strict rules and if you apply that to today's society, you might as well follow the strict guidelines of Jewish Sabbath...  Chabad.org will give much insight on the Sabbath.  

Non-Jewish Christians are not obligated to observe the Jewish Sabbath and according to orthodoxy, it would be "forbidden." Obviously, there will be some reading this thinking, "what an oxymoron."  I know.  

Forgive my intrusion into your thread but I'm just wondering what it is you wish to accomplish?  Reading, praying, spending time with family?  Are you going to walk to services and leave your money and purse at home?  No shopping whatsoever?  Not carry anything during the Sabbath?  Light no matches, turn on no lights or leave them on prior to and all during? Are you going to say the bruchot or the blessings welcoming in the Sabbath?  Is there a christian one?  Who's going to conclude with Havdalah service?  Need a male for that.  

When people compare Judaism to it...it's not an easy task and it's for the Jew.  That's why I asked about a particular christian one.  You can't exactly look to Judaism to give you the proper example although that's where it's coming from.  It's a totally different thing.  Are you willing to cook a slow meal on low heat before the initiation of the Sabbath  and keep it warmed, not touching the stove to not ignite a flame or spark?  Not use the car?  No internet nor television?  We used to observe Shabbat but no longer.  Who is going to bake the challah and say the blessing over it?  I love challah (braided egg bread, esp. ones made withbutter and raisins)!.  I do feel guilty somewhat but we'll get back around to it one day.  It's a long and arduous process to observe correctly.  See what I mean?  What exactly will the Sabbath mean to a christian?  Time for rest...how to structure that?  I think that might be your key.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 18, 2009)

Doggonit FoxxyScholar, you're giving me nachas for Shabbat!  I so miss it.  I used to get home before sundown, have the meal prepared prior to...we'd clean up, say the blessings, just have a guten Shabbas.  But I'd drive to shul in a minute.  Anyhoo...a guideline that you could tweak for christianity.  Good luck in your model...maybe pass it one to others and it might catch on.  I do know that catholics used to honor Sunday Sabbath quite religiously...I don't exacty know how, though.

_________________________________________________________________
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/257569/jewish/Shabbat-A-to-Z.htm
Shabbat A to Z


a) Leave work early Friday afternoon so you have time to prepare for Shabbat at home.

b) Clean the home in honor of the Shabbat queen.

c) Cook the Shabbat meals well in advance of Shabbat. Set up the blech that will keep the food warm for the Shabbat meals.

d) Set the Shabbat dinner table with: Candles and candlesticks, two whole loaves of challah placed on a tray and covered with a cloth, a cup or goblet and wine for kiddush; and the fanciest tableware you own. 

e) Bathe or shower and dress in formal attire

f) Light Shabbat candles 18 minutes before sunset. Click here for the exact time in your location.

g) From this point until Shabbat's end (step v) refrain from all "work" as defined by the laws of Shabbat.

h) Pray the special Shabbat evening service (preferably in your synagogue) including the L'cha Dodi song -- "Come, my beloved, to greet the bride, let us receive the presence of the Shabbat..."

i) Gather around the dinner table and sing Shalom Aleichem (welcome to the Shabbat angels). Then sing "A Woman of Valor" (Proverbs 31) composed by King Solomon as a tribute to the Jewish woman.

j) Pour a cup of kosher wine or grape juice into a special goblet and recite the Kiddush that proclaims the sanctity of the Shabbat.

k) Go to the kitchen sink and do the washing-the-hands ritual done before eating bread: fill a large cup with water and pour water onto each of your hands three times and recite the appropriate blessing.

l) Return to the table, recite the blessing over the challah, slice it up, dip it in salt, eat some and pass around challah slices to everyone.

m) Serve the Shabbat meal. The traditional Friday night menu includes gefilte fish (or some other kind of fish) chicken soup with matzo balls or noodles, a chicken or meat entree with side dishes (traditional choices are kugel and tzimmes), and desert.

n) Between courses, sing the traditional shabbat songs (zemirot) and discuss Parshah (Torah reading) of the week and its relevance. Printing the Chabad.org Parshah PDF before Shabbat will give you much fodder for conversation. At the meal's end, recite the Grace after Meals.

o) If its not too late, now's the perfect time for some quality time with family and/or friends, to do some Torah learning or read a Jewish book.

p) Go to sleep and enjoy the unique pleasure of Shabbat rest.

q) In the morning, walk to shul (don’t bike/blade/drive) for the morning services and the Torah reading. (If you're lucky, there'll be a kiddush buffet after services!)

r) Return home and sit down to a Shabbat meal. The daytime meal follows the same basic structure as yesterday evening's -- kiddush (the daytime version), ritual washing, blessing on two challah loaves, delicious food. Traditional foods for the daytime meal include egg salad with onions and the mythical Shabbat cholent -- a slow-cooking stew that sits on a small covered flame from before Shabbat. Don't forget the singing, stimulating discussion and Grace after Meals.

s) Shabbat afternoon naps are delicious; reserve some time also to do some learning and reading, or to attend a Torah class (if there's one within walking distance).

t) Later in the afternoon, recite the minchah afternoon prayers; in the summer, this is followed with the study of a chapter from Ethics of the Fathers.

u) Eat the Third Meal, a light repast served between minchah and maariv.

v) Approximately an hour after sundown, after it gets dark, Shabbat is over. Click here for the exact time in your location. Recite the evening prayers.

w) Now it's time for Havdalah, the separation ritual performed with an overflowing cup of wine, spice box and braided candle.

x) There's one more meal: Melaveh Malkah ("Farewell to the Queen"), a light meal accompanied with songs about Elijah the Prophet and stories about the righteous.

y) Re-enter the work-week revitalized with the spiritual energy and vision gained from Shabbat.

z) Repeat next week.


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## PaperClip (Feb 18, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I think you need to find out what you will and will not be doing for the Sabbath and when it will start, sundown to sundown or another timeframe? If you do choose to do as Jesus did, as someone said, then there will be very strict rules and if you apply that to today's society, you might as well follow the strict guidelines of Jewish Sabbath... Chabad.org will give much insight on the Sabbath.
> 
> Non-Jewish Christians are not obligated to observe the Jewish Sabbath and according to orthodoxy, it would be "forbidden." Obviously, there will be some reading this thinking, "what an oxymoron." I know.
> 
> ...


 
Whewwww!!! That's food for thought! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great questions for me to ponder.... what I sense initially is that I would want to deliberately rest and meditate and avoid TV/internet for a designated time.... 

And this is something I could do on my own as well as become a family tradition.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 18, 2009)

divya said:


> We should observe Sabbath/Shabbat as it is the seventh day.  It was instituted at Creation (Genesis 2:3), long before the first Jew, and long before pagan originated weekly day names that we used now. However, Sunday worship came in with the mixture of pagan worship of the sun god Mithra and Roman Catholicism. The latter made the decision to compel Christians to worship on the same day as sun god worshipers in exchange for power. Many people may not realize this is the case, but Roman Catholic clergy have acknowledge Sunday worship as their institution, rather than God's institution. However, we can see that where the Roman empire could not completely reach, the true Sabbath keeping was maintained, see Ethiopia. In Ghana, there is also evidence of regard for the seventh day as God's day among the Akan.
> 
> Yes, it is true that many Christians worship on the 3rd day because of Christ's resurrection. However, the Scriptures state in Romans 6 that _baptism_ is the action we take to commemorate Jesus' death and resurrection.



ummm ooooookaaaay. so what day is the 7th day?


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

1star said:


> ummm ooooookaaaay. so what day is the 7th day?



I was agreeing with you, just adding some extra info. But to answer your question, numerous studies have shown that the weekly cycle has not changed. Ultimately though, God just expects us to do our very best. If this is what we know and we are searching, God understands it as the light the we have.


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Doggonit FoxxyScholar, you're giving me nachas for Shabbat!  I so miss it.  I used to get home before sundown, have the meal prepared prior to...we'd clean up, say the blessings, just have a guten Shabbas.  But I'd drive to shul in a minute.  Anyhoo...a guideline that you could tweak for christianity.  Good luck in your model...maybe pass it one to others and it might catch on.  I do know that catholics used to honor Sunday Sabbath quite religiously...I don't exacty know how, though.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/257569/jewish/Shabbat-A-to-Z.htm
> ...



This is beautiful. I especially love the lyrics of the song "greet the bride," and that you worship during the Shabbat meal. That's different and maybe something I will implement.

And Shabbat naps are definitely the best! Thank you for sharing!


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## divya (Feb 18, 2009)

I'll share as well, from a SDA Christian perspective. It would be nice if we had some Seventh Day Church of God members and others too. 

1. Leave work early enough on Friday to prepare for Sabbath. For example, if you work for the General Conference of SDAs, the workday ends at 12:00pm in the afternoon. 

2. Run all your errands and such beforehand. Clean your home, and cook your meal for the evening and Saturday. You are preparing for the King. 

3. Eat dinner. 

4. At sundown, open the Sabbath. If you would prefer to do so at church, some churches have Vespers to bring in the Sabbath. At home, the family comes together and begins in song. Often, people open with a special Sabbath song such as "Don't Forget the Sabbath."

5. Reading and discussion of the Scriptures is next. 

6. Closing prayer. 

7. Read and study on your own, if it is still early.

8. Sleep.

9. Sabbath morning, we pray, eat and head to church service (Sabbath school and Divine Service) 

10. After church service, there are quite a few options. We may stay for lunch and a particular ministry in which we are involved. We may go home, eat and take that great Sabbath nap that GV spoke about. We may go to the park and enjoy nature etc. Of course, have Bible study etc.

11. To close the Sabbath, we may return to church (or stay if already there) for Adventist Youth Society. It's for "youth" from birth to 99.  We close the Sabbath similar to how we opened it. Songs first (especially like "Day is Dying in the West"), study follows and then prayer. 

12. Also, there is a sunset calendar for wherever you live. http://www.adventist.org/sun/


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## discobiscuits (Feb 19, 2009)

divya said:


> I was agreeing with you, just adding some extra info.
> *
> Sorry. Sometimes I can be a little s.l.o.w.
> *
> ...



*
The following is not related to the above qoute. 

I am in no way putting down or disparaging those who have rituals or practices for sabbath. I just can't see me doing even close to that - too much work. It also reminds me of bondage to the law and how we are free of it. I don't think we have to do anything to observe the sabbath other than set it aside for rest, not even worship or fellowship with others but rest. That's what God did rested & rituals are work. Again just saying it would not work for me.

That is one of the things that bothers me about ppl chastising others if they don't attend church service esp on Sunday. The bible does not teach that we must congregate on sunday or any day. It teaches to fellowship (aka socialize) with fellow believers. We can do that at any time any day. Kinda like communion. There is no set day, time or ritual for communion just to do it in His rememberance however often we do have communion. We just do things as humans to emulate specific events in the bible with no specific instruction to do so.  

Sorry. Tired I may have to clarify later I wanted to get my thoughts down b4 I forgot them.
*


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## divya (Feb 19, 2009)

1star said:


> *
> The following is not related to the above qoute.
> 
> I am in no way putting down or disparaging those who have rituals or practices for sabbath. I just can't see me doing even close to that - too much work. It also reminds me of bondage to the law and how we are free of it. I don't think we have to do anything to observe the sabbath other than set it aside for rest, not even worship or fellowship with others but rest. That's what God did rested & rituals are work. Again just saying it would not work for me.
> ...



I can understand the spirit in which your comments are written. I suppose it depends on how understands perceives _keeping the Sabbath_. It's probably a matter of personal beliefs. For me, keeping the Sabbath is commandment, so it can be broken like any of the others. Jesus Himself said "If ye love me, keep my commandments." [John 14:15]. For that reason, there are certain activities that really help us keep our minds fixed on God throughout the Sabbath. So are there things that we share with each other, as ideas for how to keep the Sabbath a holy time, one set apart from all others for resting our minds on Christ.

Jesus, for example, made a habit of going to the synagogue, healing the sick etc. That being said, I personally would not label His actions are bondage to the law or ritual, the same as I would not label any person's decisions to participate in certain activities that are appropriate for Sabbath. Those fall under _keeping the Sabbath holy_ - setting it apart from other days, from worldly cares. It is the day that all that we do is focused on God.

Bondage of the law represents the belief that the law can save, when that is the role of Jesus Christ. If anyone thinks keeping the Sabbath can save, then that is being under the bondage of the law. Or if you that one must do certain activities on Sabbath to be save, that is certainly bondage. The Sabbath becomes ritualistic in that way. Just like if anyone thinks not committing adultery can save, that is being under the bondage of the law etc., when believing on Jesus Christ as our Savior is the only way. 

Evidence of our belief in Him are the keeping of His commandments, including the Sabbath. Rev. 22:14 - Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Just a different perspective.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 19, 2009)

1star said:


> ummm ooooookaaaay. so what day is the 7th day?


 

Saturday.  Sunday is the first day of the week and the christians' new Sabbath.  But Sabbath, Shabbat, comes from Sheva, seven.


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## divya (Feb 19, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Saturday.  Sunday is the first day of the week and *the christians' new Sabbath*.  But Sabbath, Shabbat, comes from Sheva, seven.



Except for a minority of Christians who believe in the Sabbath because it was not nailed to the cross!


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 20, 2009)

divya said:


> Except for a minority of Christians who believe in the Sabbath because it was not nailed to the cross!


 

That one went right over my head.  Huh?  What does that mean lol!  We got Jewish roots/family so that's our interest.  Huh?  I'm scratching my head.  I hate not understanding. 

Anyhoo, I was going to say that ....18 minutes before sundown, light your shabbos candles lolol!I truly want to know how christians celebrate sabbath.  I'd heard that there is a call for people to return to it.


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## ChasingBliss (Feb 20, 2009)

divya said:


> I'll share as well, from a SDA Christian perspective. It would be nice if we had some Seventh Day Church of God members and others too.
> 
> 1. Leave work early enough on Friday to prepare for Sabbath. For example, if you work for the General Conference of SDAs, the workday ends at 12:00pm in the afternoon.
> 
> ...



This entire post brought back such memories. I'm sitting here in tears right now and I dont understand why?


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## rara171 (Feb 21, 2009)

HI everyone. I am a super newbie...like just joined 2 min ago.
I finally decided to join when I saw this thread!
Will do the profile later.

anyway,

I have been an Seventh Day Adventist all my life. I am 4th generation I believe. I was so surprised when I saw this post because most people look at me blankly when I tell them about being SDA. I am a vegetarian (which is pretty common in the SDA church) and have never been to a party on friday night (which is kinda crazy for a 20 year old).

But I wouldn't have it any other way. Most of my friends look at me crazy because I'd rather stay in and read my devotion on a friday night than go to the Alpha party. During the week I look foward to the Sabbath, knowing this is when i get to sit down, reflect, and put the tasks of reality behind me for a moment. Every Adventist has their own rules and regulations for what you "can and cannot" do, but i think that is missing the point.

God says to honor it. So i believe this is our opportunity to shut off the t.v. and give Him all of our time.

Whether you worship on Sunday or Sabbath is not the main goal in our walk with Christ-but doing all we can to follow his Word and grow in Him.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 21, 2009)

I know this is probably off-limits and for those who are actually observing Shabbat, I apologize and realize they may not see this until sundown...but I just wanted to send in a nice Jewish prayer...the Shema.  Don't know if you 7th Day Adventists know this prayer or not...but it's about "Hear Israel, the L-rd our G-d, the L-rd is One."  Just have a feeling to send it in...it will bring tears...and I think it's honorable for christians to honor their "Jewish" roots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4IO_1NalkA


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## divya (Feb 21, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> That one went right over my head.  Huh?  What does that mean lol!  We got Jewish roots/family so that's our interest.  Huh?  I'm scratching my head.  I hate not understanding.
> 
> Anyhoo, I was going to say that ....18 minutes before sundown, light your shabbos candles lolol!I truly want to know how christians celebrate sabbath.  I'd heard that there is a call for people to return to it.



LOL! Sorry girl! Let me explain.

The _majority_ of Christians believe that the Sabbath was done away with at the cross and that the law does not have to be regarded anymore. Many call Sunday the Lord's Day. Some do refer to it as the "Christian Sabbath," but most do not _keep_ Sunday in the same way that the Biblical seventh-day Sabbath.

A _minority_ of Christians believe that the Sabbath (Shabbat) is a living command from God.  SDAs believe that the only laws that are not necessary anymore are the _ordinances_ handwritten by Moses, which are sacrificial/ceremonial laws (see Colossians 2:14-16). 

The only sabbaths we do _not_ keep are the ones within the ordinances - High Sabbaths - as those look towards the Messiah.  So we do not celebrate Pesach, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanah, Sukkoth etc. Jesus has come and died, and so He is our Paschal Lamb. His blood is sufficient to cleanse and save us. These ordinances (including the holyday, new moon, sabbath days or rather high sabbaths) are _blotted out_ due to Jesus.

However, the seventh-day Sabbath is the weekly Sabbath which was instituted at creation, before any of us were Jews or Gentiles etc. Further, God did not do away with the Ten Commandments, which He wrote with His own finger. The ordinances and the Ten Commandments are two different things. The 4th commandment is to keep the Sabbath holy.  So that's why I said, a minority of us do keep the Sabbath!


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## divya (Feb 21, 2009)

HoneyLemonDrop said:


> This entire post brought back such memories. I'm sitting here in tears right now and I dont understand why?



 Because God's Sabbath is such a special time...


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## discobiscuits (Feb 22, 2009)

Hello & welcome rara171!

Keep talking ladies I'm still learning. I still aint doing all that stuff I said was too mugh work lol but I can see reading and studying more and incorporating some things I've seen so far. 

I was hoping for more ppl who worship on sundays to explain why we Christians do this if the Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday.

In my church my pastor's dad used to say that since Christ rose on Sunday that is the new sabbath (paraphrased). He also said that Jesus had to be crucified/die before the sabbath began @ sundown b/c it was illegal or something (again paraphrased from memory of a sermon like 10 yrs ago). But crucifiction was a Roman or Greek thing (can't remember) not a Jewish thing so what difference did it make when he was crucified.

*sigh*

I'm like FS on this one. More info please. I'm taking it in and processing.


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## Mis007 (Feb 22, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I think you need to find out what you will and will not be doing for the Sabbath and when it will start, sundown to sundown or another timeframe? If you do choose to do as Jesus did, as someone said, then there will be very strict rules and if you apply that to today's society, you might as well follow the strict guidelines of Jewish Sabbath... Chabad.org will give much insight on the Sabbath.
> 
> Non-Jewish Christians are not obligated to observe the Jewish Sabbath and according to orthodoxy, it would be "forbidden." Obviously, there will be some reading this thinking, "what an oxymoron." I know.
> 
> ...


 
_Yes it is not easy, I am a Catholic but observe the Sabbath along with my SDA friend who in turn observes the Jewish Shabbat. Every Friday from sunset we have Shabbat the table is blessed in Hebrew, occasionally we will attend the synagogue (not an orthodox one mind for obvious reasons). The rest of the evening is spent in bible study or bible games/play for the children, Saturday is church near enough all day.  IMO the SDA Sabbath keeping is a simple version of the Jewish one, but I must point out that not all SDA will acknowledge the Jewish Shabbat my friend believes this the correct way. And yes love me some *challah .*_


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## divya (Feb 22, 2009)

Mis007 said:


> _Yes it is not easy, I am a Catholic but observe the Sabbath along with my SDA friend who in turn observes the Jewish Shabbat. Every Friday from sunset we have Shabbat the table is blessed in Hebrew, occasionally we will attend the synagogue (not an orthodox one mind for obvious reasons). The rest of the evening is spent in bible study or bible games/play for the children, Saturday is church near enough all day.  IMO the SDA Sabbath keeping is a simple version of the Jewish one, but I must point out that not all SDA will acknowledge the Jewish Shabbat my friend believes this the correct way. And yes love me some *challah .*_



One day I would like to attend a synagogue just to see how it is conducted. A friend of mine married a Messianic Jew and enjoys attending with her husband, so maybe I will visit one of their congregations. Most SDAs will have a problem with the lack of emphasis on Jesus in other Jewish synagogues, but outside of that, I believe that Sabbath keepers really can learn from each other when it comes to keeping Sabbath holy.


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## PaperClip (Feb 22, 2009)

divya said:


> LOL! Sorry girl! Let me explain.
> 
> The _majority_ of Christians believe that the Sabbath was done away with at the cross and that the law does not have to be regarded anymore. Many call Sunday the Lord's Day. Some do refer to it as the "Christian Sabbath," but most do not _keep_ Sunday in the same way that the Biblical seventh-day Sabbath.
> 
> ...


 
Hi, divya:

Thank you for your insight via this post and topic overall. As 1star said she's doing, I'm also processing and as I post, I'm thinking out loud as part of my processing.... so there are a couple of things going through my mind right now:

1. From what's been shared here, the Sabbath observance is a sacrifice, that of time, desires, etc. and we know that this FLESH doesn't want to sacrifice but that there is great reward in sacrifice (or prioritizing things for the Lord). That's why we have to bring our bodies (as well as our souls and minds) under subjection.

2. In the gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, it reads "the Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath". (Matt 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5). So I'm wondering if it's like this: Lord Jesus Christ = Sabbath. This "equation" does not UNDO the Ten Commandments at all (although that fourth commandment does say "day" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), I go back to my inquiry about the PRINCIPLE of the Sabbath day versus the RITUAL of the Sabbath day, (again, a ritual that I did not grow up doing). By keeping the Lord Jesus Christ (= Sabbath) holy EVERY DAY, I am/am I still honoring that commandment, yes?

So am I disobedient by not practicing the ritual or is the ritual a permissive aspect that cultivates deeper, richer relationships with the Lord and family...because I do greatly appreciate the fellowships that occurs with the Jewish and Seventh-Day practice of honoring the Sabbath.

Again, thanks for your openness and information-sharing in this thread.


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## divya (Feb 22, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Hi, divya:
> 
> Thank you for your insight via this post and topic overall. As 1star said she's doing, I'm also processing and as I post, I'm thinking out loud as part of my processing.... so there are a couple of things going through my mind right now:
> 
> 1. From what's been shared here, the Sabbath observance is a sacrifice, that of time, desires, etc. and we know that this FLESH doesn't want to sacrifice but that there is great reward in sacrifice (or prioritizing things for the Lord). That's why we have to bring our bodies (as well as our souls and minds) under subjection.



Yes, absolutely. It is very much a sacrifice, and one which is well worth it.  It is time to commune with the Creator, which itself is an honor. After creation, He rested the Sabbath day and hollowed it. Therefore, He asks us to do the same.



> 2. In the gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, it reads "the Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath". (Matt 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5). So I'm wondering if it's like this: Lord Jesus Christ = Sabbath. This "equation" does not UNDO the Ten Commandments at all (although that fourth commandment does say "day"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, “the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath,” so it is He who sets for the principles of the Sabbath. It is His example in life that we look to for how to please the Father in heaven, as He did by keeping the Sabbath on earth as well as the rest of the law. So if I may, I would like to offer a different interpretation. If we look at those chapter, they deal with the issue of what is lawful on the Sabbath, understanding the purpose of the Sabbath.



> Matt. 12:1-8 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. * But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.*  But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?  Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. *But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.* *For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.*



The Pharisees did not understand that the sabbath is not all about simply about what can and cannot do. They were so legalistic that they missed the deeper meaning of the Sabbath - love and communion with God and fellow man. When we read on in those chapters, they tried to condemn Jesus for healing others, helping others etc. It is God's love the should permeate Sabbath keeping. If your neighbor is falling down ill and needs to go to the hospital, should you not take them? In fact, this past Friday night at 3am, my FH received a call. A friend from Florida was driving down and his car broke down on the highway? He was stranded. Should my FH not have gone to help him because it was the Sabbath and his helping might be deemed be unlawful? The Pharisees probably would not have gone. Should we not feed the homeless? Should we not visit nursing homes? God forbid. God's love and compassion should be overflowing on Sabbath, not legalism. This is not to say that we should not keep out of worldly activity, but rather that there are principles that should be in action on Sabbath - especially on Sabbath. Abiding by them is not breaking the Sabbath, but quite the contrary.

So that is my understanding of the verses you have provided. I would venture to say that the majority of Sabbath keepers do consider the Sabbath to be a commandment, rather than simply a ritual. The Scriptures state “If you love me, keep my commandments.” (John 14:15)  Keeping the Sabbath and all the other commandments represent our love for God.  From that perspective, I personally do not believe that we can keep any other day holy than the one that God has provided for us. The reason is because from creation, the seventh day is the one day that the Lord blessed and hallowed and instructed us to keep holy by not doing any work. It is, thus, a very special time that should be kept accordingly, demonstrating our love for Him. 

However, like anything else, one has to be convicted on keeping the Sabbath.  Do I believe that not keeping the Sabbath is wrong? Yes, breaking _any_ of the commandments is wrong. But to be clear, there is nothing wrong with attending church on Sunday, as we can go to church any day of week. However, keeping the Sabbath is a command from God and distinct from church attendance alone. Ultimately though, the Lord deals with us individually and embraces the sincerity of our hearts. Pray for the Holy Spirit’s guidance on the issue. I pray that as He convicts and directs, we obey.

Maybe I am just slow today, but what do you mean by “permissive aspect?”  It does, however, cultivate deeper, richer relationships with the Lord and family.

Thank _you_ for this discussion. It truly helps to keep our minds stayed on God, as a time where we can be so consumed with everything else but His will for us. God bless.


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## divya (Feb 22, 2009)

Sorry so long...lol.


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## PaperClip (Feb 22, 2009)

divya said:


> Yes, absolutely. It is very much a sacrifice, and one which is well worth it. It is time to commune with the Creator, which itself is an honor. After creation, He rested the Sabbath day and hollowed it. Therefore, He asks us to do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I understand what you're saying here....

What I meant about "permissive aspect" is what you stated here: 

*I would venture to say that the majority of Sabbath keepers do consider the Sabbath to be a commandment, rather than simply a ritual. *

*However, like anything else, one has to be convicted on keeping the Sabbath. Do I believe that not keeping the Sabbath is wrong? Yes, breaking any of the commandments is wrong. *

From your vantage point, honoring the Sabbath is more than just ritual, but commandment. It's serious, real, mandatory, personal, and sacred. (Would this be an accurate description?)

I hope that on Judgement Day that I am NOT condemned to hell and eternal torment because I did not honor the Sabbath as you or others honor it. 

I am curious to know how to honor the Sabbath in a way that pleases the Lord and that aligns with the Word of God. Something definitive that I can also deem serious, real, mandatory (for the sanctity of my personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ), and sacred.


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## divya (Feb 22, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I understand what you're saying here....
> 
> What I meant about "permissive aspect" is what you stated here:
> 
> ...



Absolutely. It is the reflection of love and obedience to God.



FoxyScholar said:


> I hope that on Judgement Day that I am NOT condemned to hell and eternal torment because I did not honor the Sabbath as you or others honor it.
> 
> I am curious to know how to honor the Sabbath in a way that pleases the Lord and that aligns with the Word of God. Something definitive that I can also deem serious, real, mandatory (for the sanctity of my personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ), and sacred.




This is a touchy subject, but here is my understanding. There are going to be many people in heaven who did not keep the Sabbath here on earth, because God holds us responsible for what we know and understand. For the man who never reads a Bible in His life but heard the story of how Jesus saves and believes...he will be in the kingdom, regardless of the many other things written in the Scriptures of which he is unaware. The same for ths Christian who loves and serves God with all his/her might, but never understood the importance of Sabbath during life - he/she will certainly reach heaven. God is just and merciful and works with us were we are. That is the amazingly beautiful thing about His character. While we can be so harsh and unforgiving, He is the opposite. 

However, if someone like me or others who know and understand, yet knowingly reject the truth (Sabbath or another commandment of God), then we will not make it. If we truly believe in Christ as our Savior, then we believe in all that He stands for and will do accordingly. If we do not, it is rejection of His love and saving grace. 

So I am highly reluctant to say or dare to think that any person will be condemn to hell for anything. God knows the heart and each persons acceptance of Him and willingness to serve Him. So the most important thing is that we all live according to the light that we have.

As far as how to keep the Sabbath, I would begin with prayer and then with the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20. Then perhaps study Christ's example on the Sabbath. See what kinds of things that He and His disciples did on Sabbath so you can have an idea of things that God would have us to do. Those chapters that you posted are actually wonderful, because then you can understand the purpose of the Sabbath. Just keep in mind always that your focus should be on God and thus on godly things. 

For example, typically that leads most to not watching worldly programming during the Sabbath, but if anything, watch a Bible movie for example. But there are so many things to do on Sabbath that bring us closer to God and help fulfill our mission on earth (spreading the gospel). Studying the word both alone and with others. There are so many Bible studies going on that maybe you can find one to take part in. Going to the park and enjoying nature. So many Sabbaths as a child, we would spend with other families in the park. We would walk and admire the handiwork of God, sit by a stream and picnic and study. There is always door to door witnessing. You can take part in all kinds of ministries at your church - homeless, visit the sick/bedridden etc. Those things warm the heart of God. James 1:27 _Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world._

Those are some ways in which you may honor the Lord on His Sabbath. There are variations, as you have seen within this thread. However, I think you may be able understand the points behind most, if not all of them. Maybe you can spend a Sabbath or two with some Sabbath keepers as well.  Most of all, with prayer, God will lead you in the way you should go.

Feel free to ask me any questions you may have.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 22, 2009)

double post


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## HWAY (Feb 22, 2009)

I know using wikipedia is not considered scholarly research, but I found the following links interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_in_Christianity
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html


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## discobiscuits (Feb 22, 2009)

FS: Y u gotta write all that? I'm on my pda. I'm w/ u on the spirit of part.

Y'all need to stop this discussion till I can get to a computer 

All jokes aside I'm trying to keep up. Can you guys do me a favor & not quote the entire post if it is really long? I'm asking only b/c it is really difficult for me to read the thread on a 2in screen esp if more than one person quotes the same long post. Even in printable mode. Thanks.

ETA: I don't mean don't quote a post just edit it to the part u r addressing. Just a favor.


Still reading...


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 22, 2009)

My view on the Sabbath and why Christians worship on Sunday.

First, there are two important things to consider. 1. the Sabbath was given to Israel as the 'sign' of an everlasting Covenant between God and His people in remembrance that it was God who sanctified them (Exodus 31:13-16), and because they should remember God's work in bringing them out of the bondage of Egypt (Deuteronomy 5:13-15). 2. it was instituted as a day of rest from their labours (Exodus 31:17), coinciding with and commemorating God's rest from His. It was to be observed on the seventh day (saturday), and was to be a Holy day wherein their work would cease. 

Now, Luke 6:4-5: "How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone? And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."

The disciples could work on the Sabbath in the cornfield because Christ as high Priest and Lord of the Sabbath fulfilled the law for them. He is the Sabbath wherein they would find rest from the works of the law. For all of the old testament signs and ceremonial laws and ordinances were fulfilled (completed) in Christ at the cross. They were simply 'types' of the actual things which were to come. The Holy canon speaks of them as a [skia], meaning that they were merely shadows or the prefiguring of the reality which was to come.

Colossians 2:16: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an Holy day, or of the new moon, or of the *Sabbath*, which are a *Shadow* of things to come: but the body is of Christ!"

Here God tells us very plainly and 'without ambiguity' that the old testament Sabbath was a [skia] or shadow that pointed to a greater Sabbath to come. All of those old testament laws of Moses like not eating unclean meats, the ceremonial laws of Holy days, the ceremonial laws of the new moons, and right along with these God puts the old testament Sabbath, and says it was merely a 'shadow.' And like all these other laws, it would have it's substance, efficacy, and fulfillment in the person of Jesus Christ, the true it pictured. We are not to be judged by any of these, as the law of these are kept in Christ. We would no more go back to observe the seventh day Sabbath today as we would go back to the Passover, or observe the new moons, or continue the old testament laws of eating meats, or of going to Jerusalem three times a year (Feast of Tabernacles, Passover, Weeks). They were shadows of what has now come. Likewise, Christ is that Sabbath of Rest the children of God looked for, and it has come. 

This is explained in Hebrews chapter four. I would suggest everyone very carefully read that chapter of Christ our Rest. His rising from the dead fulfills it and His coming again the consummation of it so that there still remains a Rest for us. When we work six days and rest on the seventh, we bear witness to the Sabbath cycle ordained by God. And God makes it clear that there is a greater rest which is being prepared for those who have Christ as their Sabbath. 

God used His directed light of scripture to show the Saints shadows of things that were to come. These are spoken of as signs or tokens. They are the 'types or figures' of the true thing that God had in view from the very beginning. The types forecast things which were to come in God's plan of Salvation. And in this way the Sabbath was a sign of the coming of Christ, our Rest wherein we would cease from our labours. He was the true or the fulfilment of that seventh day Sabbath sign. It is only in Him that any of us would see rest. 

We see the same principle when the old testament law commanded that the sacrifice of the passover Lamb was to be kept forever. That was not the real or true, it was the shadow of the true sacrifice Lamb that was to come. Only in Christ would this law be kept forever. By using these old testament laws, God was using shadows and types to illustrate future prophesy. So when Christ came, the law was fulfilled. When the prophecy of the sacrifice passover Lamb was fulfilled, then the practice of observing the shadow (sign of sacrificing a literal lamb) was over. The everlasting law wasn't done away with, it was completed or 'come to fruition' in Christ. 

Matthew 5:17 : "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil".
The law was completed or fulfilled. Christ didn't do away with the old testament laws, He was that to which those laws pointed. He is the fruition of them. 

Luke 24:44 :"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

Christ fulfilled these old covenant laws which pointed to Him. We now celebrate Christ (the passover Lamb) by the communion service in remembrance of his broken body. In other words, we now recognize that the law of Moses in actual sacrificing of an animal, was merely an old testament 'sign' pointing to the real sacrifice of his body. And with the coming of the real, our eyes are upon it and not any longer upon the 'sign' looking forward to it. We are now looking backward. i.e., the old testament law of the 'passover sacrifice' looked forward to the broken body of Christ, the 'communion service' looks back at the broken body of Christ. The method of observance has changed, but the observance has not. In Christ, we keep the law of the passover forever. The blood of the passover lamb in the true, shed once, and for all. 

*Hebrews 10:1-2: "for the law having a Shadow of good things to come, and not the very Image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."*

The literal Temple was a shadow of Christ, the true Temple and the veil of the Temple a shadow of His flesh (Hebrews 9:3; 10:20), the High Priests were a shadow of Christ our High Priest who makes intercession for us, the sacrifice Lamb was a shadow that Christ was the true sacrifice Lamb, the lamps were a shadow that Christ was the light of the world, the Passover a shadow that the judgment of God will pass over us as it did the children of Israel, The feast of firstfruits (Pentecost) a shadow that He is our Firstfruits, and the seventh day Sabbath a shadow of Christ, who is our Rest wherein we do no work (Salvation by Grace) to obtain favor of God. They all were looking forward to the true or real that came with Christ. 

It is important to understand that this seventh day was fulfilled in Christ in that the works that He 'finished' for us, is what allows us to enter into that Sabbath or Rest. Old things are become new so that in new testament dispensation, the old signs and laws in Christ were completed. With the new Temple the old by law is to be observed no longer. The new is observed in Christ. With the new Passover feast (The Lord's Supper) the old is to be observed by law no longer. With a new High Priest, the old is to be observed by law no longer. With a new sign of Salvation (baptism) the old (of circumcision) is to be observed by law no longer. And with a new Sabbath day (Not a new Sabbath), the old testament day is to be observed by law no longer. We observe it faithfully (as all the old testament everlasting commands of the law) in Christ. And stated, God indeed told us plainly from the start that it was a 'sign' or signification.


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 22, 2009)

Exodus 31:13: "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you."

It was a sign or signification between God's children and Him that they know they are sanctified or made Holy by God. Again, something which can only happen in Christ as they are delivered from the bondage of sin. 

Colossians 1:22: "In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:"

The sign of the sabbath was that they should remember that it was the Lord that made them Holy, they were not Holy of themselves. Likewise in Deuteronomy God says the sign was so that they would remember God's work in bringing them out of the bondage of Egypt. 

Deuteronomy 5:15: "And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day."

All this is related to the finished work of Christ on the cross, which the seventh day Sabbath prefigured. The deliverance from bondage to sin that we are set free from the law of works in the Rest of Christ. 
But just as there are those theologians of the Church who don't want to give up the old Judaic beliefs in earthly kingdoms, rules, ceremonies, governments, temple, earthly city Jerusalem, or many of the other old testament 'types' which pointed to Christ, so there are also those who don't want to give up the old testament seventh day Sabbath. They either don't understand, or are indoctrinated into believing that we should still be under bondage of old testament shadows. But Christ is our new testament Sabbath of Rest, and changing the day of observance is the same as changing the Passover observance to the Communion observance. It illustrates a move from the old covenant 'representing law' to the new covenant representing Grace (keeping the law in Christ). 

When Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead as the Firstfruits on Sunday, this became the sign of the new testament Sabbath, the day of our resurrection or Rest in Christ. When His 'work' was completed, He rose from the dead our new Sabbath or Rest on this day. It became our new testament 'sign.' Just as God ended His work of creation (Genesis 2:2) and rested on Saturday in the beginning, so Christ ended His work of a new creation and we Rest in His resurrection on Sunday, the new testament day of Rest.

Hebrews 4:3-4: "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as He said, as I have sworn in My wrath, if they shall enter into My rest: although the Works were finished from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). 
for He spake in a certain place on the SEVENTH day on this wise, And God did Rest the seventh day from all His works.

The seventh day Sabbath looked forward to Christ, the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world that our works are ended. By Grace we are Saved through the works of Him. He is the fulfillment of that Sabbath of rest. Old testament Saints could be Saved because the works were finished from the foundation of the world. In other words, the 'efficacy' of Christ's death and resurrection was upon them as well as us who come along afterward. They were Saved by Grace looking forward to the shed blood of Christ, just as we are likewise Saved by Grace looking backward to the shed Blood of Christ. His blood sacrifice effective looking either forward or backward. 

He was their Sabbath of Rest that the seventh day looked forward to. He is our Sabbath of Rest that the eighth day looks back to. In fact the old testament circumcision was on the eighth day to illustrate the true circumcision is in Christ's resurrection. 

*Hebrews 4:9: "There remaineth therefore a Rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his Rest, he also hath ceased from his own work, as God did His. Let us labour therefore to enter into that Rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief".*

And so we see that ultimately, while Christ is our Sabbath of Rest that the seventh day Sabbath was a shadow of, we labour in this world also to enter into that 'realized' Rest at Christ's second coming. It is the consummation of the inheritance which we have ALREADY received. There still remains a Rest for Christians and whoever receives that Rest which Christ promised will rest from his own work, just as God rested from his. Let us then (as scripture prompts), labour to enter into that Rest so that not one of us will fail as they (the Israelites under Moses) did because of their lack of faith (Heb 4:9-11). ALL Christians are given the gift of eternal life and of entering this rest of God. Where the works 'required' were completed from the foundation of the world in Christ. There is no work that we can do to enter into that Rest, for the works have been completed long ago. 

And so this is why we do not any longer worship on the seventh day Sabbath. It was a sign, a part of the old testament ceremonial law which pointed to Christ, and as all the other ceremonial laws it was fulfilled in Christ. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath! Let no man judge you in regards to these 'as if' you should follow these laws still. We follow them by being in Christ who keeps the law perfectly for us.


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm really sorry for the length of the previous 2 posts!! that is my belief and was summarized excellently in this article where I got most of the sciptures for back up (or where I plagiarised from  : http://www.albatrus.org/english/festivals/sabbath/new_testament_sabbath-day.htm


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## chicacanella (Feb 22, 2009)

I need some understanding on this as well because I am confused. Thanks so much you guys. 

Iron sharpeneth iron;
so shall a man sharpeneth
the countenance of his friend.
Proverbs 27:17


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## divya (Feb 22, 2009)

Thank you for sharing Topsy. I would like to discuss the issue further based on Scripture.



topsyturvy86 said:


> My view on the Sabbath and why Christians worship on Sunday.
> 
> First, there are two important things to consider. 1. the Sabbath was given to Israel as the 'sign' of an everlasting Covenant between God and His people in remembrance that it was God who sanctified them (Exodus 31:13-16), and because they should remember God's work in bringing them out of the bondage of Egypt (Deuteronomy 5:13-15). 2. it was instituted as a day of rest from their labours (Exodus 31:17), coinciding with and commemorating God's rest from His. It was to be observed on the seventh day (saturday), and was to be a Holy day wherein their work would cease.



This is where a minority of Christians disagree - on these two issues.  First, the Sabbath was given when God created the world in Genesis 2:3, rather than just with Israel. It was blessed and hallowed at Creation. The Ten Commandments are discussed both in the old and the New Testament because they are relevant. Jesus and the early Christians (Jews and Gentiles) both kept the seventh-day Sabbath. Here are a list of Biblical reasons why the Sabbath was *not only* for the Jews:


*1)* Adam and Eve were not Jewish. "God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it" (Genesis 2:3) before sin entered. "Sanctified" means "to be set apart for holy use." The only ones in the Garden of Eden for whom the Sabbath was “set apart” were Adam and Eve, who weren’t Jewish.

*2) *"The Sabbath was made for man." Mark 2:27. Jesus said this. It was "made" in the Garden of Eden before it was "written" down on Mount Sinai. The Sabbath was "made" for "man," not just Jews.

*3)* The other nine commandments are not "just for Jews." God wrote "Ten Commandments" on stone, not just nine (See Deut. 4:12, 13; Ex. 20). Does “Do not commit adultery,”“Do not murder,”“Do not steal,” and “Do not bear false witness” apply "only to Jews"?

*4) *"The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Exodus 20:10. God calls the Sabbath, "my holy day." Isaiah 58:13. The Bible never calls it "the Sabbath of the Jews." It isn’t their Sabbath, but God's.

*5)* The Sabbath commandment is for the "stranger" too. The fourth commandment itself says the "stranger" is to rest on the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10.“Strangers” are non-Jews, or Gentiles. Thus the Sabbath applies to them too. Read also Isaiah 56:6.

*6)* Isaiah said Gentiles should keep the Sabbath. "Also the sons of the stranger ... every one that keeps the Sabbath ... for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." Isaiah 56:6, 7. Thus the Sabbath is for Gentiles and “all people,” not just for Jews.

*7)* "All" mankind will keep the Sabbath in the New Earth. In "the new earth ... from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says the Lord." Isaiah 66:22, 23. Here God says that “all flesh” will be keeping the Sabbath in “the new earth.” If this is the case – and it is – shouldn’t we start now?

*8)* Gentiles kept the Sabbath in the Book of Acts. "The Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath ... Paul and Barnabas ... persuaded them to continue in the grace of God."' Acts 13:42, 43. Here saved-by-grace Gentiles kept the Sabbath (see also verse 44).

*9)* "The law" [of Ten Commandments] is for "all the world," not just for Jews. Paul wrote these words. Read Romans 2:17-23; 3:19, 23.

*10) *Luke was a Gentile who kept the Sabbath. Luke was the only Gentile who wrote any New Testament books (he wrote The Gospel According to St. Luke and The Acts of the Apostles). Luke traveled with Paul and wrote, "On the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side." Acts 16:13. It was the seventh-day Sabbath, the memorial of the creation (see Ex. 20:11).


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

> Now, Luke 6:4-5: "How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone? And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."
> 
> The disciples could work on the Sabbath in the cornfield because Christ as high Priest and Lord of the Sabbath fulfilled the law for them. He is the Sabbath wherein they would find rest from the works of the law. For all of the old testament signs and ceremonial laws and ordinances were fulfilled (completed) in Christ at the cross. They were simply 'types' of the actual things which were to come. The Holy canon speaks of them as a [skia], meaning that they were merely shadows or the prefiguring of the reality which was to come.
> 
> ...




With love, the Scriptures must be further examined in this regard. The Scriptures here teach that what the disciples did was *lawful on the Sabbath*,because Christ is Lord of the Sabbath. That being said, Christ determines what it acceptable on the Sabbath.  Now we must discuss the issue of fulfillment and what was done away with at the cross. You are correct that the ordinances/ceremonial laws are blotted out at the cross. *However, the question is - what are the ordinances/ceremonial laws? * 

Col. 2:16 must be read in context with the entire chapter.  We must be careful to make sure we are considering all the relevant verses. That being said: 

_Col. 2:14-16  *Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances* that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:_

The verses here do not state that _all_ sabbaths or holy days etc. are blotted out at all. If that was the case, even the communion and such would be of none effect. These verses tell us _WHICH_ meats, drinks, holy days, and Sabbaths are not longer necessary – it states the blotting out the handwriting of ordinances.* What are the ordinances? Are they different from the commandments? The answer is yes, because the Scriptures tell us the two are different. *

_Luke 1:6 - And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the *commandments and ordinances* of the Lord blameless._

Clearly, the Bible makes a distinction between the two. They must be different. There are commandments AND then there are ordinances.  The next question is then – what are commandments are what are ordinances? The Bible also reveals what exactly the ordinances are:

_ 2 Chronicles 33:8-9 And he set a carved image, the idol which he had made, in the house of God, of which God had said to David and to Solomon his son, In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen before all the tribes of Israel, will I put my name for ever: Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes *and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.* _

*The Bible clearly tells us that the ordinances (ceremonial laws) were handwritten by Moses. The Ten Commandments are not ordinances handwritten by Moses.  The Ten Commandments were carved in stone by the finger of God*.  There is a big difference. _Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God._

But we cannot stop there. Now, if we study the ordinances we find out that there are particular sabbath days within the ordinances that were given to look forward to the Messiah.  Those ordinance sabbaths were, as mentioned earlier -  Pesach, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanah, Sukkoth etc. Actually, not all these sabbaths fall on the seventh-day anyway but were special ceremonial days. However, because Jesus has come and died, He is our Lamb. His blood is sufficient to cleanse and save us. These ordinances/ceremonial laws are blotted out as specified in Col. 2:14-16, NOT the Ten Commandments. *The seventh-day Sabbath is part of the commandments, not the ordinances.  *

Honestly, this is one of those areas where must particular study is necessary. When you first read those verses, it is easy to come away with the idea that the seventh-day Sabbath is of none effect. However, if we read the verses around, they show us how to rightly divide the truth. The ordinance sabbaths, holy days, new moons etc., are not necessary. However, the seventh day Sabbath within the commandments written by God still stand, along with all the other commandments.

God bless.

There is an excellent source that discusses Colossians: http://www.colossians2-16.com/


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## discobiscuits (Feb 23, 2009)

you all type so much i had to print the thread to read later & highlight. 

I'm going to make some posts of things I found on the web that we can discuss as well.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 23, 2009)

From: http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/1122/Lord-of-Sabbath.htm


> Lord of the Sabbath
> (From Forerunner Commentary)
> 
> Mark 2:27-28  (Go to this verse :: Verse pop-up)
> ...


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## discobiscuits (Feb 23, 2009)

This one is interesting.  This church observes shabbat and worships on sunday at night to honor the sabbath and remember the Lord......
From: http://www.shalom-peace.com/shabbat.html


> WHO IS LORD OF THE SABBATH?
> 
> By Dr. Elias E. Hidalgo
> Dr. and Mrs. Hidalgo
> ...


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 23, 2009)

divya said:


> When you first read those verses, it is easy to come away with the idea that the seventh-day Sabbath is of none effect. However, if we read the verses around, they show us how to rightly divide the truth. The ordinance sabbaths, holy days, new moons etc., are not necessary. However, the seventh day Sabbath within the commandments written by God still stand, along with all the other commandments.
> 
> God bless.
> 
> There is an excellent source that discusses Colossians: http://www.colossians2-16.com/


 
I never said it should be blotted out! and the bible passages I quoted don't say that either. It basically says that Christ completes/fulfils the *law. *The concept of the Sabbath was fulfilled with Jesus Christ. 

Read Galatians 3: 19 - 25. It talks about the purpose of the law. I'll start from verse 23. "But before faith came, we were kept under the guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us back to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. *But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.*" (We are no longer under the law!)

The Old Testament Law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). 

In place of the Old Testament law, as Christians, we are under the law of Christ (as referenced in Galatians 6:2) which is in Matthew 22:37-40 says "Jesus said to him, "you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind."This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it:"you shall love your neighbour as yourself. *On these two commandments hang all the Law and Prophets.*"


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## discobiscuits (Feb 23, 2009)

Okay, this page as a table that compares the sabbath under law and sabbath under grace. I can't post the table and the text is really long so here's the link: http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/sabbath.htm  This site basically says NT Observance should be every day, seven days a week. 

Jesus did not do away with the law but he did set precedence for how to observe and respect the spirit of the law (FS mentioned the spirit of the observance of sabbath a few posts back) versus the letter of the law. 

It was further made clear that the law was death anyway and that by breaking any of it one has broken all of it. 

I'm thinking that for me, so far, if I observe the letter of the law I have to find a new occupation as I am subject to work any given day of the year and currently I work on Saturdays. If I observe the spirit of the law it is to take a day of rest and reflection of what God has done and do so in reverence with respect.

Protestant so-called main-stream Christians are taught that Jesus was with God at creation and, in fact, is that same God (He/They are the We/Us in Genesis). So basically, Jesus created the sabbath at the time of creation of man.  He then incarnated Himself in sinful flesh and, in His death on a tree, became the final pure, clean, unblemished, sin-free sacrifice to expunge the sins of all mankind.  Man's belief in His subsequent resurrection is the means to salvation. Then he returned to that same God, His Father Whom He is also, and was accepted by God the Father as that pure sacrifice.  He now sits next to God and from this throne He will judge all mankind and those whose names He finds that are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life will not be eternally separated from Him/God. 

I said all that in the paragraph above to say this:  Jesus said in the NT that He is the Lord of the sabbath.  He is the creator of the sabbath.  He demonstrated in His acts of allowing the disciples to eat grain on the sabbath, healing on the sabbath et cetra that it is the spirit of the law that we must respect and keep. 

Right now I'm thinking, based on the NT like FS specified in her OP, that as long as I take a day, any day, to observe the spirit of the law and rest from my work then I am honoring the sabbath and keeping it holy. 

Thoughts please?​


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> This is explained in Hebrews chapter four. I would suggest everyone very carefully read that chapter of Christ our Rest. His rising from the dead fulfills it and His coming again the consummation of it so that there still remains a Rest for us. When we work six days and rest on the seventh, we bear witness to the Sabbath cycle ordained by God. And God makes it clear that there is a greater rest which is being prepared for those who have Christ as their Sabbath.
> 
> God used His directed light of scripture to show the Saints shadows of things that were to come. These are spoken of as signs or tokens. They are the 'types or figures' of the true thing that God had in view from the very beginning. The types forecast things which were to come in God's plan of Salvation. And in this way the Sabbath was a sign of the coming of Christ, our Rest wherein we would cease from our labours. He was the true or the fulfilment of that seventh day Sabbath sign. It is only in Him that any of us would see rest.



Hebrews 4 is an affirmation of the seventh-day Sabbath. 

_Hebrews 4:9-11 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.1Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. _

The Bible here states that there remains a rest to the people of God. It tells us the Bible states that those who enter into the rest, cease from our own work just as God did. Thus we must labor to enter into that rest – we must keep the Sabbath. 



> We see the same principle when the old testament law commanded that the sacrifice of the passover Lamb was to be kept forever. That was not the real or true, it was the shadow of the true sacrifice Lamb that was to come. Only in Christ would this law be kept forever. By using these old testament laws, God was using shadows and types to illustrate future prophesy. So when Christ came, the law was fulfilled. When the prophecy of the sacrifice passover Lamb was fulfilled, then the practice of observing the shadow (sign of sacrificing a literal lamb) was over. The everlasting law wasn't done away with, it was completed or 'come to fruition' in Christ.
> 
> Matthew 5:17 : "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil".
> The law was completed or fulfilled. Christ didn't do away with the old testament laws, He was that to which those laws pointed. He is the fruition of them.
> ...



Reading Luke 1:6 and 2 Chron 33:8-9, we learn that ordinances and commandments are two different things. The Bible never states that Old Testament law is done away with. It states that the ordinances are blotted out (see Col. 2:16). The Ten Commandment are still valid.  Only the specific sabbaths in the ordinances are blotted out (Yum Kippur, Rosh Hashanah etc.) because they pointed to Christ. 

Further, once again we must read all the verses for context. _Matthew 5:17 says “"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil". _

When is the law fulfilled? The VERY NEXT VERSE tell us when the law will be fulfilled.

_Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. _

The Bible says *until heaven and earth pass* then nothing passes from the law because only then all will be fulfilled.  Have heaven and earth passed away yet? NO.  Christ’s coming and dying was part of the fulfillment of the law, but according to the Bible, ALL is not fulfilled until heaven and earth pass away. That has not happened yet, so the law is still valid. That is why when we keep reading, Jesus goes on to state that we should be keeping the commandments.


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> I never said it should be blotted out! and the bible passages I quoted don't say that either. It basically says that Christ completes/fulfils the *law. *The concept of the Sabbath was fulfilled with Jesus Christ.
> 
> Read Galatians 3: 19 - 25. It talks about the purpose of the law. I'll start from verse 23. "But before faith came, we were kept under the guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us back to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. *But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.*" (We are no longer under the law!)
> 
> ...



Here are the relevant verses: _Matthew 5:17 says “"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil".Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you,* Till heaven and earth pass*, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled._

When is the law fulfilled? When heaven and earth pass. Heaven and earth have not passed away, so we are to still follow God's law. 

You are correct. We are no longer under the law, meaning that through the grace given by Jesus we are forgiven and we can go on to live lives in accordance with the law with His guidance. The Bible does not state that we are not to follow the law. Jesus states in John 14:15,_ If you love me, keep my commandments._

It is not enough to start at verse 23 in Galatians because one will miss this all important verse:  _And this I say, that the covenant, that was *confirmed *before of God in Christ,* the law*, which was four hundred and thirty years after, *cannot disannul,* that it should make the promise of none effect.Galatians 3:17_

The law was confirmed through Jesus and cannot disannul. It cannot be canceled. We today can living in accordance with God's law because of Jesus' saving grace.

______________________



The Bible does not state that there is anything in place of the Ten Commandments. You are correct about the following verses: Matthew 22:37-40 says "Jesus said to him, "you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind."This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it:"you shall love your neighbour as yourself. *On these two commandments hang all the Law and Prophets.* 

The bolded is the key. The those two commandments, the other commandments are based. That's why if you understand those two, then you understand the rest of the commandments. All of the Ten Commandments deal with either loving God or loving your neighbor - that's why Jesus calls them the greatest. Jesus never said that we are not to keep the rest of the commandments. If He did, then we would be able to commit adultery or steal. God forbid. We must have an understanding of the commandments' focus, which is why the first and second mentioned are key. 

Here are the commandments that *hang* the first greatest commandment - Loving God " with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind".

_ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'
_

Here are the commandments that *hang* on the second greatest commandment - "you shall love your neighbour as yourself."

_FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.' _

That's what "hang all the law" means. All the other commandments are based on those two commandments -either loving God or our neighbor. That's why Jesus describes them as the greatest. If we understand them, we understand the importance of all.
_________________


Lastly, not all Old Testament laws are ordinances/ceremonial laws.  Nowhere in the Bible does it states that all Old Testament law is done away with, only the ordinances. The ordinances are handwritten by Moses. See Col. 2:14-16, Luke 1:6 and 2 Chron 33:8. The Ten Commandments are written by the finger of God and are all valid, including the seventh day Sabbath. How can we claim that commandments and ordinances are the same, when the Bible makes a clear distinction. The hand of God and the hand of man are certainly not the same.


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 23, 2009)

divya said:


> *Here are the commandments that hang the first greatest commandment - Loving God " with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind".*
> 
> _*ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'*_
> 
> ...


 

The bolded was my point exactly and that is exactly what the passage means. Through Christ, we have the real thing, no more a shadow. Read again the reason for the law stated in Galatians. It was a tutor. No one said their not valid, Jesus *fulfilled* the law and not abolished it, i've said that a million times already (sigh). He fulfilled all of the law, not some of the law/all of the law except the Sabbath. 

I know you're SDA and this is your strong belief/foundation and I respect that, please respect mine too. 

I'm under grace and refuse to be bound under the law again (Through Christ,I do not have to be). Although i'm not bound to the law, I still keep the law but through Christ. Through loving God and loving people (as you detailed above,the 10 commandments all hang on those!). I observe Sabbath/most Christians observe Sabbath on a Sunday because it was when Jesus resurrected and we entered a 7day a week/24hrs a day Sabbath day/as the bible often put it, "rest with God". Through Christ, that commandment would be observed forever as the passover through Christ would be observed forever. I keep my Sundays holy and restful.


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> The bolded was my point exactly and that is exactly what the passage means. Through Christ, we have the real thing, no more a shadow. Read again the reason for the law stated in Galatians. It was a tutor. No one said their not valid, Jesus *fulfilled* the law and not abolished it, i've said that a million times already (sigh). He fulfilled all of the law, not some of the law/all of the law except the Sabbath.
> 
> I know you're SDA and this is your strong belief/foundation and I respect that, please respect mine too.
> 
> I'm under grace and refuse to be bound under the law again (Through Christ,I do not have to be). Although i'm not bound to the law, I still keep the law but through Christ. Through loving God and loving people (as you detailed above,the 10 commandments all hang on those!). I observe Sabbath/most Christians observe Sabbath on a Sunday because it was when Jesus resurrected and we entered a 7day a week/24hrs a day Sabbath day/as the bible often put it, "rest with God". Through Christ, that commandment would be observed forever as the passover through Christ would be observed forever. I keep my Sundays holy and restful.



With all respect, the Bible is the authority on any matter. I understand what you believe. However, the verses state the following: 

_Matthew 5:17-18 “"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil".For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled._

While I respect your beliefs, the Scriptures must prevail. Until *heaven and earth pass* then ALL will be fulfilled, and until that, nothing passes from the law. Jesus did fulfill but there is more fulfillment to come. I can only acknowledge what the Bible says, no other. If God changed the Sabbath, there must be a Scripture that states the Sabbath is changed to another day or that Jesus is the Sabbath. However, there is neither in the Word. Sunday worship came into the Christianity through incorporation of non-Christian beliefs. That is why there are some churches that were less affected by those influences, and so many still keep the seventh day Sabbath. (see some in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church). That is not to say that there are not sincere Christians who worship on Sunday - there certainly are. You are clearly one. However, you must understand that the battle is against Satan and his attempts to pervert the truth. I will provide a little more information on this matter. My point is not to upset you at all, but to point only to God's desires for us as humans.

Also, in terms of the resurrection, the Bible gives instruction on what we should do in remembrance of God's death and resurrection in Romans 6. 

Romans 6:4 -11 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

The Bible states here that *baptism* should be done remembrance of the resurrection. It a beautiful thing! There is though no evidence in the Bible that we are instructed to worship on Sunday to celebrate the resurrection. The Bible is very clear on the matter. If you can find any clear Scriptural support, then I would love to read it. But Romans seems to give us our actions in remembrance. 

God bless dear and regardless of our disagreement, we are still sisters in Christ.


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## cupcakes (Feb 23, 2009)

Divya you are right on point with all of your posts. ITA with everything.


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 23, 2009)

divya said:


> With all respect, the Bible is the authority on any matter. I understand what you believe. However, the verses state the following:
> 
> _Matthew 5:17-18 “"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil".For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled._
> 
> While I respect your beliefs, the Scriptures must prevail. Until *heaven and earth pass* then ALL will be fulfilled, and until that, nothing passes from the law. Jesus did fulfill but there is more fulfillment to come. I can only acknowledge what the Bible says, no other.


 
The bible is infact the authority. Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, *but to fulfill.* For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, *one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,* till all be fulfilled." 


It is true that Christ did not come to destroy or to abolish the law or the Prophets. Every jot and tittle or last letter of the law *is still in effect*, but Jesus makes it very clear that what He came to do, is to FULFILL them. 
*Fulfill:* (1) To accomplish or to carry into effect, as a Prophecy or a Promise; (2) to meet or satisfy the requirements; (3) to bring to a finish or completion; (4) to bring the conditions of a law to realization; (5)to bring to a consummation.
-ful.fil.er, n.--ful.fill.ment, ful.fil.ment, An act of fulfilling; condition of being accomplished.​By fulfilling the law Christ satisfied it's requirements in our place. In other words, the 'required' obedience is accomplished in Him. Therefore, *in Christ do we keep all the law faithfully*, and cannot be accused. In this way, we are no longer judged by any of the everlasting laws, for we are under the Grace of God (Romans 6:14 scripture for that claim). Galatians 2:16 says "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law, no flesh shall be justified".

Galatians 5:14 says "For *all *the law is fulfilled in one word (love), even in this: "You shall love your neighbour as yourself"".

Jesus said he came to fulfil the law as we've quoted so many times. John 19: 28 & 30 says "After this, Jesus, knowing that *all *things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I thirst!" ..... So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "*It is finished*!" and bowing His head, He gave up His spirit". 

Everything He came to do, He finished/He accomplished/He completed. This includes the fulfillment of the law.


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 23, 2009)

divya said:


> If God changed the Sabbath, there must be a Scripture that states the Sabbath is changed to another day or that Jesus is the Sabbath. However, there is neither in the Word. Sunday worship came into the Christianity through incorporation of non-Christian beliefs. That is why there are some churches that were less affected by those influences, and so many still keep the seventh day Sabbath. (see some in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church). That is not to say that there are not sincere Christians who worship on Sunday - there certainly are. You are clearly one. However, you must understand that the battle is against Satan and his attempts to pervert the truth. I will provide a little more information on this matter. My point is not to upset you at all, but to point only to God's desires for us as humans.
> 
> Also, in terms of the resurrection, the Bible gives instruction on what we should do in remembrance of God's death and resurrection in Romans 6.
> 
> ...


 
I will touch on this part a bit later on as i have to step out now.


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> The bible is infact the authority. Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, *but to fulfill.* For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, *one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,* till all be fulfilled."
> 
> 
> It is true that Christ did not come to destroy or to abolish the law or the Prophets. Every jot and tittle or last letter of the law *is still in effect*, but Jesus makes it very clear that what He came to do, is to FULFILL them.
> ...



Scriptures interprets Scripture.  Nothing the Bible conflicts, so we must take a closer look.
_
John 19: 27 -30 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished,* that the scripture might be fulfilled*, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. _

Absolutely! All things that Christ need to do at that point so that the scripture be fulfilled through His life on earth. So yes! It was finished, He gave His life for us! However, statement does _not_ mention anything about the law. The law is discussed in Matthew 5:17-18, and will not pass away until heaven and earth passes away. The Ten Commandment stand. 

__________

Here is a great explanation of the law and what it means to not be under the law: 
*Satan's Deceptions on God's Law of Love* http://www.godssabbath.com/

Why do some people think we no longer have to obey God's Ten Love Rules? This is a very good question, and one I have no good answer to. Why indeed would anyone want to look for any reason whatsoever why not to love God and their fellow man? This was the very reason we were created and what life is all about. A loving relationship with our Creator and people. One thing is for certain, Satan certainly does not want us to have a loving relationship with God and no doubt has successfully deceived many into believing that the law is something we no longer need to keep by painting a false picture in our minds as to what the law is. 

These are just some of Satan's deceptions. We are now under Grace not law. Romans 6:14 “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.” Rarely is the next verse quoted which says; “What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.” *Galatians 3 has also been used as one of Satan's best deceptions why not to love God and people. Paul was actually explaining to the Galatians that salvation is a free gift of God and there is nothing they can do to earn it. Rather than receiving their salvation by faith in Jesus and the grace of God, they were trying to earn their salvation by obeying the law. Paul explains to them that to earn their salvation by keeping the law, would mean being under the Law instead of God's Grace and that they would therefore have to obey every letter of the law, i.e. to keep it perfectly.* This of course is not possible as Romans 3:23 says; “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Another deception of Satan's is to have us believe that it is legalism to obey the law and this is especially one of his favourites when it comes to the Sabbath. The question then is; is it legalism to love God and people? i.e. the very thing we were created for? If the answer to this question needs explaining then we should probably give up right here.


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

*Today there are a substantial number of Christians who are unaware that some of the beliefs in Christian Churches have originated from manmade traditions and paganism. The current day of worship is a good example of this as it originated from sun worship which is why we have the pagan name SUN-day. It was not changed in honour of the resurrection as some claim and history confirms that all Christians worshipped on Saturday until at least 120 AD, when persecution for Judaism caused some to change days in fear of their lives. Millions also died through the dark ages for refusing to worship on Sunday that was made law in the fourth century and is why all except around five hundred denominations now worship on Sunday. These are facts unbeknown to most Christians today.*

We also trust the example of Jesus and Paul who always kept the Sabbath. Paul was a Pharisee and hence a Jew and followed the Jewish ways to the strictest letter. Acts 26:3-5 “The Jews all know the way I have lived ever since I was a child, from the beginning of my life in my own country, and also in Jerusalem. They have known me for a long time and can testify, if they are willing, that according to the strictest sect of our religion, I lived as a Pharisee.” Notice in the following verse that this is a Jewish synagogue and that Jews have all through history, without change, worshipped on Saturday as they still do today. Acts 17:2 “…they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. As his CUSTOM was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.” Since it was the custom of Jesus, (Luke 4:16) Paul and the early Church, and Jesus assured us not one stroke of the law is going to pass, then we also follow their example and enjoy the promised blessings of God’s Holy Sabbath day. Most of the misunderstanding in this area comes from confusion between the Mosaic Law (ended) and the Ten Commandment law.

We believe that there is only one way to establish truth, and it is not by taking for granted what we tell you or what your most trusted friend tells you or even what your Pastor teaches. God’s children need to be like the Berean Christians who “received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true” Acts 17:11. T*his is the only way to get back to the Biblically based belief system of the early Church and put aside the traditions that have become accepted doctrines over the centuries, and obscured the original teachings and examples of Jesus and the Apostles.*

Our certainty is that we have been saved through Grace, by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and that He has saved us from the penalty that our sins deserved. *We recognize that because He has saved us from the consequences of the law, it does not mean that we no longer have to obey God’s law of love, but to the contrary it amplifies our desire to follow God’s Commandments to the best of our ability, because we know what an enormous price Christ paid on our behalf.*

http://www.godssabbath.com/about.html


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

slimzz said:


> Divya you are right on point with all of your posts. ITA with everything.



Thanks. This is a very difficult topic. I keep considering whether or not I am doing more damage that God continuing in a debate regarding the validity of the Ten Commandments.  Of course, there is much evidence in the Scriptures.  My prayer is just that people will read and understand for themselves.


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

1star said:


> Okay, this page as a table that compares the sabbath under law and sabbath under grace. I can't post the table and the text is really long so here's the link: http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/sabbath.htm  This site basically says NT Observance should be every day, seven days a week.
> 
> Jesus did not do away with the law but he did set precedence for how to observe and respect the spirit of the law (FS mentioned the spirit of the observance of sabbath a few posts back) versus the letter of the law.
> 
> ...



I love the bolded regarding the Lord's example of how to keep the Sabbath. He truly is Lord of the Sabbath and Lord of all.  His example is always to be followed!

Interesting interpretation on the website. Here is where I would disagree based on Scripture.  In the table, Hebrews 4:1-11 is used state that one is to rest every day of the week. But in fact, here is where their statements cannot be reconciled with the verses mentioned. 

_Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, *And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. *_

_Hebrew 4:10-11 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works,* as God did from his*. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief._

So here the Bible tells us exactly what God did - He rested on the 7th day from all His works.  Then a few verses down it says, that those who enter into His rest are those who cease from our own works just like God did. So that means we must cease from work on the 7th day. That is why we must strive to do the very same thing.


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## topsyturvy86 (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm soo done here. Finally, as i've said over and over again, the 10 commandments are still in fact observed but through Christ Jesus. They fall under loving God with all our hearts, soul, and might, and loving our neighbours as ourselves. If we genuinely love God and people, the 10 commandments are very easily observed. I was never saying as i've corrected too many times now that it is void, it is fulfilled. 

Anyway, my salvation does not depend on engaging in rituals to observe the seventh day Sabbath. I am now in God's rest which is no longer a calendar day each week, but every day, which includes the seventh.God's rest is entered by faith—by believing the gospel (Hebrews 4). The author is not interested in a day of the week. God's rest is continuous and not limited to a day (e.g. Matthew 11:28-3) and all through the NT. A person who keeps the weekly Sabbath but *rejects Christ *has not entered God's rest. Therefore, weekly Sabbath keeping does not equal God's rest. Acceptance and faith in Christ equals God's rest.

And to clarify,eariler I wasn't justifying Sunday Sabbath, I was giving the history that I know of why Christians worship on Sundays. It is a personal choice as I said lots earlier to dedicate my Sundays to the things of God. I think i've more than made my point and would probably not reply any longer.


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## PaperClip (Feb 23, 2009)

If I may....

I appreciate everybody's contribution to my thread. I am processing this topic so I am not going back and forth responding to everybody's posts. As a reminder, the core inquiry of my thread was to gain understanding of how I should observe the sabbath. I mentioned my curiosity as to HOW my sabbath observance should look like, which is more important to me (at this point) than the WHEN. I also noted the influence of culture, which has dictated for all of us as to when and how this sabbath observance occurs. 

Ultimately, we have the Word of God to guide us, and as in EVERY QUESTION/ISSUE we may have about this Christian walk, it's an ongoing debate (for lack of a better word) about what carries over from the Old Testament into the New Testament and exactly what Calvary did, erased, resolved, redeemed, etc. 

Sooooo... with that said:

I wholeheartedly believe that the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ TORE THE VEIL between God and man and that I have a DIRECT RELATIONSHIP and DIRECT CONTACT to the Lord to guide me in how to observe this sabbath.... to take a designated amount of time to rest and reflect and re-energize myself through disciplined activities focused on the Lord Jesus Christ. I attend corporate worship service on Sundays, following what the Lord did as recorded in Luke 4:16: as it was His custom, He went to the synagogue on the Sabbath (which was on Saturday). The earthly Jesus followed His Jewish cultural heritage.  I am not culturally Jewish but I learn from the PRINCIPLES and BEHAVIORS and CONDUCT of the Lord Jesus Christ and I work to carry out those PRINCIPLES in my daily life. Do I choose culture over Christ? ABSOLUTELY NOT! But what would the Lord have me do that is not empty ritual or dead works? That's what I must avoid at all costs.


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> I'm soo done here. Finally, as i've said over and over again, the 10 commandments are still in fact observed but through Christ Jesus. They fall under loving God with all our hearts, soul, and might, and loving our neighbours as ourselves. If we genuinely love God and people, the 10 commandments are very easily observed. I was never saying as i've corrected too many times now that it is void, it is fulfilled.
> 
> Anyway, my salvation does not depend on engaging in rituals to observe the seventh day Sabbath. I am now in God's rest which is no longer a calendar day each week, but every day, which includes the seventh.God's rest is entered by faith—by believing the gospel (Hebrews 4). The author is not interested in a day of the week. *God's rest is continuous and not limited to a day *(e.g. Matthew 11:28-3) and all through the NT. A person who keeps the weekly Sabbath but rejects Christ has not entered God's rest.
> 
> And to clarify,eariler I wasn't justifying Sunday Sabbath, I was giving the history that I know of why Christians worship on Sundays. It is a personal choice as I said lots earlier to dedicate my Sundays to the things of God. I think i've more than made my point and would probably not reply any longer.



May God bless you in your walk.  My salvation is in Jesus Christ alone, but I do choose to follow Christ's words which are "If you love me, keep my commandments." It is unfortunate that anyone would state that a person who keeps the commandments of God including the Sabbath has not entered into God's rest. Such statements are contrary to the Word,  particularly with the words and example of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:5-11 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.  5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:*Again, he limiteth a certain day*, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. *There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. *Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

We may disagree on these issues, but I hope that we all strive to take God at his Word.

Revelation 14:12 - Here is the patience of the saints; here are those[a] who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.  

Take Care.


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## divya (Feb 23, 2009)

Foxy,

Thank you for this thread. I respect your position, even though I may disagree. Your zeal to follow Jesus is inspiring to me and surely to others on the board. 

May God richly bless you in your walk.


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## PaperClip (Feb 23, 2009)

divya said:


> Foxy,
> 
> Thank you for this thread. I respect your position, even though I may disagree. Your zeal to follow Jesus is inspiring to me and surely to others on the board.
> 
> May God richly bless you in your walk.


 
Thank you for this and I wanted to thank you especially for your balanced approach in this conversation. I had no hidden agendas in starting this thread but a sincere curiosity. Your posts have given me food for thought and I am processing/digesting all of it as I seek the Lord for His guidance on how to walk this out.

Again, thank you!


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## discobiscuits (Feb 23, 2009)

Thanks divya.

Let me add for everyone, I'm not agreeing w/ any of the "resources" that I posted. They were for various views on the topic. 

Divya, getting back to ur post. I decided sometime last year when one of my bffs told me just do or follow what Jesus did & u can't go wrong. (We were discussing one of the threads on this forum + Paul & how every word of the bible being or not being God's words). 

Jesus established the sabbath at creation, observed it in human form and taught the spirit of the law in various contexts that all ended in the same result.  That result is what u posted the two commandments on which hang... 
I see thise same convo that u two r going back & forth about in the Christian church all the time. Even my church has taught that Jesus' acts began a "new" thing. 

I've even been taught, from religious and non-religious sources that sunday means Son's day meaning Jesus' or the Lord's day.

Based on what I learned in school and in church, the seventh day of the week is and has been for centuries saturday. The 7th day is the sabbath day. Therefore saturday and sabbath day r the same day. 

Look @ that one post of mine where the guy says his church teaches and observes sat as the sabbath and they have a worship service on sunday evening - when Jesus was resurrected. 

I still think that it is ok w/ God to observe any one day as the sabbath to keep the spirit of the law which is what taught. And that we must keep the sabbath b/c that law has not passed again what Jesus taught.

Thoughts?


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