# Gender Is Not Binary



## itsallaboutattitude (May 19, 2019)

another story of an intersex woman.


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## Everything Zen (May 19, 2019)

I’m confused about what makes this person intersex bc she is genetically male and was not born with a uterus. Was she born with ovaries? breasts?  Is it hormones? How did she go into menopause...? 

I understand it more clearly when a person is chromosomally one way but have internal testes or ovaries or something but she did not explain what exactly makes her intersex. It was like she just decided to call herself that and now she’s a unicorn.


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## dicapr (May 19, 2019)

Everything Zen said:


> I’m confused about what makes this person intersex bc she is genetically male and was not born with a uterus. Was she born with ovaries? breasts?  Is it hormones? How did she go into menopause...?
> 
> I understand it more clearly when a person is chromosomally one way but have internal testes or ovaries or something but she did not explain what exactly makes her intersex. It was like she just decided to call herself that and now she’s a unicorn.



Intersexed is just what you described. Genetically one sex but physically appears to be another sex ie has a vagina but is XY.

She is confused about going through menopause. She never had ovaries so she can’t go through menopause.


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## Everything Zen (May 19, 2019)

So is this person intersex or nah? I get very confused these days since the LGB movement got coopted by the TQIA 

I don’t necessarily consider her physically female. If she wasn’t wearing makeup and had short hair I could easily see her as a male.


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## dicapr (May 19, 2019)

Everything Zen said:


> So is this person intersex or nah? I get very confused these days since the LGB movement got coopted by the TQIA



The fact that she had internal testes that had to be removed suggests that she is truly intersexed.


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## Everything Zen (May 19, 2019)

So.... she never had a penis? Does she have vagina? That might make more sense.  I’m trying to be completely respectful here and understand. I guess physically female means everything else then. Ok 
The menopause without a uterus thing threw me off.


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## dicapr (May 19, 2019)

Everything Zen said:


> So.... she never had a penis? Does she have vagina? That might make more sense.  I’m trying to be completely respectful here and understand. I guess physically female means everything else then. Ok
> The menopause without a uterus thing threw me off.



She is probably going through what they call manopause where she is seeing a drop in her hormone levels.

Being intersexed isn’t like being transsexual. The children born like this appear to be physically female but are genetically male.  It is an actual medical condition.

 It’s not the same as those “feeling” that they are born in the wrong body. They actually are born with aspects of both sexes.

ETA:  Yes she was born with a vagina. She never had a penis so physically she is female.


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## Everything Zen (May 19, 2019)

Totally understood- I’ve advocated for the intersexed for a long time. I just thought they were sometimes lumped under transgender. 

Now I’m confused about what it means to be trans


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## dancinstallion (May 19, 2019)

That track runner from South Africa is supposed to be intersexed too..... 
What's her name? 

CASTER Semenya. She too is married to a woman.


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## luckiestdestiny (May 20, 2019)

Everything Zen said:


> Totally understood- I’ve advocated for the intersexed for a long time. I just thought they were sometimes lumped under transgender.
> 
> Now I’m confused about what it means to be trans


They're  supposed to make up a percentage of a percentage, very rare versus transgender from what I read and understand.


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## Reinventing21 (May 20, 2019)

Ever hear of absorbing twin? It is where there are twins in utero, but for some reason one does not develop and the remaining twin absorbs the genetic material of the other. 

I wonder if this too plays a role in the intersex and transgendered.


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## Cheleigh (May 20, 2019)

Intersex is absolutely not the same as transgendered. This is a medical condition. Intersex is what was previously called hermaphrodite. Doctors used to force parents to pick a "gender" at birth for their intersex child.


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## Everything Zen (May 20, 2019)

I’ve always understood that it is a medical condition- a I just had the terms mixed up and I think some people have them confused as well in terms of psychological gender dysphoria, etc. so I think I may have lumped them in the same category at one point or gotten the gender assignment surgeries confused. Ex/ the well known story about botched circumcisions and then having the doctor tell the parents to raise the boy as a girl. How often did/does that happen? I think there have been some more well documented recent incidents. Even here in Chicago at Lurie Children’s.


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## itsallaboutattitude (May 20, 2019)

Thanks @dicapr for taking care of my thread!

@Everything Zen 

I know your questions were answered, but I wanted to add that a lot of times intersex men/women go un-diagnosed  because they present physically one way (penis or vagina) but their reproductive organs are of the opposite sex.  They may find out because they are not menstruating or they are trying to conceive and that's when they find out what that there is an issue.  

In her case, not only did she have testes, she is x/y chromosome.  I am not sure if that is always the case. 

Other intersex what we normally call hermaphrodite show both genitalia and the doctors at birth, sometimes with parental consent, picks one.  Sometimes incorrectly as the child present more male than female but now has a vagina or more female than male but now has a penis. Then as they get older they find out that oops I have a ovaries and you sewed up my vagina or vice versa (testes and you cut off my penis). 

In the interview, she says that children should be allowed to pick later in life what sex they are (intersex children). 

I think she presents as a woman in her features. 


I think there are more cases out there.  

They do not do a full genetic make up when children are born to identify what % this is happening.

If the decision was made to start doing genetic mapping to verify if
a) intersex 
b) absorbed twin so child has different DNA in bloodstream from ovaries and testes or where ever on the body.


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## meka72 (May 20, 2019)

This thread has educated me. Thanks!


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## naturalgyrl5199 (May 21, 2019)

dicapr said:


> She is probably going through what they call manopause where she is seeing a drop in her hormone levels.
> 
> Being intersexed isn’t like being transsexual. The children born like this appear to be physically female but are genetically male.  It is an actual medical condition.
> 
> ...


What does the vagina lead to? The vagina/birth canal is connected to the cervix and os of the uterus. I wonder If she had a poorly developed uterus. The drop in which hormone levels? If estrogen "dropped" it may be assumed she had more organs that were emitting some hormones?
Anyways...I saw this and still had question marks about the hormones.


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## dicapr (May 21, 2019)

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> What does the vagina lead to? The vagina/birth canal is connected to the cervix and os of the uterus. I wonder If she had a poorly developed uterus. The drop in which hormone levels? If estrogen "dropped" it may be assumed she had more organs that were emitting some hormones?
> Anyways...I saw this and still had question marks about the hormones.



Hormone drop is due to the removal of the testes. Men can have hot flashes ect from a sudden drop in hormones too but there isn’t a term commonly used for that.  Basically intersexed individuals have testies that didn’t descend where their ovaries should be.  They never develop a penis but internally they don’t have a uterus or ovaries.


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## itsallaboutattitude (May 22, 2019)

I wanted to add.

Castor S. When the IOC or whatever it's called decided that she has high testosterone levels and needs her levels to be brought down, what are they comparing it against. Are all female Olympic athletes hormone levels tested? Are all men? 
What is being used as a baseline.

I only got my hormone levels recently tested because I have been praying/begging someone anyone for Menopause. 

I know that my gallbladder processing is at a horrible level. I only know this because I was admitted to hospital and they were trying to figure out what was wrong with me.  My doctor said who knows they think it's bad but maybe it is normal for me.  It's not like they are going around testing everyone's gallbladder only sick people. So I am being compared against other sick peoples gallbladder tests. 

I still have my gallbladder 10 years later.

I know Phillips does not produce lactic acid the same way other athletes. Did he and others volunteer for this type of study? How did they determine this?


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