# Christians who point out what's wrong with the faith,



## Bublnbrnsuga (Aug 22, 2007)

especially around non-Christians. Does this bother you? If so, why and if not, why not?  I ask b/c I know as humans under the umbrella of Christianity, some things that are done are questionable, but one thing I noticed is that other religions have their faults,too, but I don't hear Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc discussing their religious ills around others who don't share the same faith. I really try to watch what I say about what I dislike about some ministers, churches, etc unless it's just something just super crazy, but even then, I don't make it a habit of pointing out what's wrong with my faith.  

Same scenario, different partner, I do the same thing when I am around non-blacks. I DO NOT talk about the ills in the black community or high five non-blacks when they point out something that's going on with us. I mean seriously, what's the point? To try to prove yourself as one of the 'cool ones?'


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## Creatividual (Aug 22, 2007)

It doesn't really bother me. Every religion has their hang ups n issues. I've heard Muslims and Jewish people complain about different things in their religion. I honestly witness more non Christians talk about the faults of Christianity than Christians. All you can do is your part and present yourself in a good manner so that you are representing your faith with pride. While we all have different faiths and aim to be better people, we're still human which means we're not perfect.


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## deltagyrl (Aug 23, 2007)

Bublnbrnsuga said:


> especially around non-Christians. Does this bother you? If so, why and if not, why not? I ask b/c I know as humans under the umbrella of Christianity, some things that are done are questionable, but one thing I noticed is that other religions have their faults,too, but I don't hear Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc discussing their religious ills around others who don't share the same faith. I really try to watch what I say about what I dislike about some ministers, churches, etc unless it's just something just super crazy, but even then, I don't make it a habit of pointing out what's wrong with my faith.
> 
> Same scenario, different partner, I do the same thing when I am around non-blacks. I DO NOT talk about the ills in the black community or high five non-blacks when they point out something that's going on with us. I mean seriously, what's the point? To try to prove yourself as one of the 'cool ones?'


 

Get out of my head.


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## Guyaneek (Aug 23, 2007)

I don't believe there is ANYTHING wrong with the faith.  Just some things wrong with us who practice it.  Christianity = perfection as far as I'm concerned.  But when those in Christ complain about what is wrong in the Kingdom particularly with those outside of the Kingdom (whom we should be witnessing to by our words, deeds, lifestyle, etc) I am bothered.  I think that is part of the worlds complaint about us and what the devil allows them to through up constantly.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Aug 23, 2007)

Guyaneek said:


> I don't believe there is ANYTHING wrong with the faith.  Just some things wrong with us who practice it.  Christianity = perfection as far as I'm concerned.  But when those in Christ complain about what is wrong in the Kingdom particularly with those outside of the Kingdom (whom we should be witnessing to by our words, deeds, lifestyle, etc) I am bothered.  I think that is part of the worlds complaint about us and what the devil allows them to through up constantly.




The first two sentences is what I was meaning to convey; however, there are some Christians who practice, but still have issues with what they believe and resort to bashing their own beliefs. 

I agree with everything you said,too 

Sometimes, particularly on this board, I see random comments made by Christians about issues within our belief. They throw things in like, 'this would be a better place if the black church stops or starts doing xyz', bashing some ministers, other Christians, etc.  I really wonder what they are trying to accomplish. Instead of bashing, how about praying?


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## SkinnyMocah (Aug 23, 2007)

No because I think blind devotion is dangerous and cultish. Being a Christian does not mean believing there are no issues or problems within the faith or the church.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 23, 2007)

Bublin....

*The bible says that you will know a man by his fruit.*

That's all I'm going to say about this topic.

Thanks for sharing what is on your heart.

You are a very special lady...keep staying in His presence!

Blessings.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Aug 23, 2007)

SkinnyMocah said:


> No because I think blind devotion is dangerous and cultish. Being a Christian does not mean believing there are no issues or problems within the faith or the church.



I didn't say to ignore our issues and that there's nothing wrong with the faith or church. Keeping things hush hush is a definite trap, I do agree, but I just notice that some seem to enjoy enlightening others about the issues, but aren't probably doing anything to alleviate them.


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## Southernbella. (Aug 23, 2007)

Bublnbrnsuga said:


> The first two sentences is what I was meaning to convey; however, there are some Christians who practice, but still have issues with what they believe and resort to bashing their own beliefs.
> 
> I agree with everything you said,too
> 
> Sometimes, particularly on this board, I see random comments made by Christians about issues within our belief. They throw things in like, 'this would be a better place if the black church stops or starts doing xyz', bashing some ministers, other Christians, etc. I really wonder what they are trying to accomplish. Instead of bashing, how about praying?


 
I'm one of those Christians. How do you know we are not praying, as well as being vocal? And we are supposed to call out heretics and false prophets. Jesus did it, when he called out the Pharisees for being hypocrites, and I doubt he had a closed session to do so. 

I think it's different from being black and not talking about black issues around others. Nobody is trying to evangalize blackness. But when we as Christians are are trying to draw people to Christ, it is our duty to expose those who are false teachers so that others would not be deceived.

Besides, it's pretty erroneous to think that non-Christians don't know what's going on. It's better for us to stand against those who aren't preaching sound doctrine, so that we aren't all lumped together.


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## Southernbella. (Aug 23, 2007)

Bublnbrnsuga said:


> I didn't say to ignore our issues and that there's nothing wrong with the faith or church. Keeping things hush hush is a definite trap, I do agree, but I just notice that some seem to enjoy enlightening others about the issues, but aren't probably doing anything to alleviate them.


 
Enlightening others _is_ helping to alleviate things. The more people know about false teachers, the easier it will be to avoid them, and they will not have an audience to spread their lies and deceit.


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## klb120475 (Aug 23, 2007)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Bublin....
> 
> *The bible says that you will know a man by his fruit.*
> 
> ...


 

That blessed me.................


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 23, 2007)

klb120475 said:


> That blessed me.................


 
I'm happy you were blessed.


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## mkh_77 (Aug 23, 2007)

lauren450 said:


> I'm one of those Christians. How do you know we are not praying, as well as being vocal? And we are supposed to call out heretics and false prophets. Jesus did it, when he called out the Pharisees for being hypocrites, and I doubt he had a closed session to do so.
> 
> I think it's different from being black and not talking about black issues around others. Nobody is trying to evangalize blackness. But when we as Christians are are trying to draw people to Christ, it is our duty to expose those who are false teachers so that others would not be deceived.
> 
> Besides, it's pretty erroneous to think that non-Christians don't know what's going on. It's better for us to stand against those who aren't preaching sound doctrine, so that we aren't all lumped together.


 
I agree, 100%!


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Aug 24, 2007)

lauren450 said:


> I'm one of those Christians. How do you know we are not praying, as well as being vocal? And we are supposed to call out heretics and false prophets. Jesus did it, when he called out the Pharisees for being hypocrites, and I doubt he had a closed session to do so.
> 
> * I did not say we are to keep quiet about issues, but it just really seems that it does nothing but turn into gossip.  I mean really, it seems that there is no balance in this area, especially when it's randomly done.  I noticed what you said about Paula White in the unpopular opinions thread. I mean seriously, what was the point of calling her a fake minister pimpstress or whatever? Was that necessary?  Did you think about the people who are actually being blessed by her ministry?  Why not just leave it at you don't care for her? If she is indeed a false prophet, God will handle that.  We are not supposed to be looking toward these ministers as our answer to life anyway.  There are plenty of ministers that I don't care for, but when I am tempted to say something negative I have to ask, what is my objective for bringing up this and that issue? Is my heart really to warn or just plain ol' gossip? I don't think I've even seen you really say anything positive about any issues dealing with ministries, but I see a lot of finger pointing.  What happened to specks, planks and all of that?*
> 
> ...



Oh no, I didn't say that non-Christians don't know what's going on around us  but negative discussions about the faith always outweigh the positive.  When someone who professes Christianity constantly points out it's flaws, what does that truly say to the unbeliever? Why would they want to be a part of the faith when you see no positive in it yourself? (Not you as in you, but you in a general sense.)


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## mkh_77 (Aug 24, 2007)

*


			
				Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		


			If she is indeed a false prophet, God will handle that.
		
Click to expand...

* 
Not to you personally, but why is this the prevailing theme when it comes to wrong doings in the church? Why are Christians supposed to stifle what control they have over a situation (in this instance, pointing out the falseness of a "prophet") and just institute a laissez-faire policy? I see this a lot when it comes to tithing and the misuse/misappropriation of funds, too.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Aug 24, 2007)

mkh_77 said:


> Not to you personally, but why is this the prevailing theme when it comes to wrong doings in the church? Why are Christians supposed to stifle what control they have over a situation (in this instance, pointing out the falseness of a "prophet") and just institute a laissez-faire policy? I see this a lot when it comes to tithing and the misuse/misappropriation of funds, too.




I don't believe one should ignore anyone's wrongdoings especially in the church, but my point is, why constantly point out that someone is false prophet, when it just may anger the person who is seeking God and finds wise counsel in that person?  What proof are you providing for such a claim?  Going around labeling one as a false prophet is just as dangerous as being a false prophet .I think this is a reason many stop going to church b/c whether they admit it or not, they tend to say they point out this or that false prophet when they can't see the good in any minister at all.  It just causes confusion b/c it may make one think 'who can they trust to minister to them?'  In this case, that person needs to seek GOD and not man who may find faults in everything a minister does. God will reveal it to them, if they truly seek Him.

I give a great example in my life   I used to listen to a lot of ministers who spoke prosperity, the happy life, the abundant life, etc.  I mean, who doesn't want to be prosperous?  It wasn't until God revealed it to me to stop seeking things and seek Him about what I need. Since then, I don't really listen to those ministers, but there's no way I am going to sit here and point the finger at them and call them false prophets.  If I do, and I happen to be right, what will I say... 'told ya so!' What good will this do for anyone?  

If you truly believe someone is a false prophet, there's a way of going about pointing it out to people rather than calling them names. There's a way to go about such a thing and if you go about it the right way, no one will question your motives.  It makes that person seem just a petty as the person they are pointing out. So many are labeled this way and it's unrightly deserved. I think it also has to do with the intent of your heart,too. Unsolicited 'advice' ends up being gossip, IMO. Am I making sense?

About the misappropriation (sp?) of funds. I can truly say that back in the day, I thought knowing where your tithes and offerings are going was none of my business, but this is not the case anymore. If you KNOW for sure of some scandal surrounding your ministry, why would you fund it? God has given us wisdom and it shouldn't stop flowing once we reach the church doors. Now, I don't go demanding to see where my tithes/offerings are going  but I thank God that the church and the ministries I give to voluntarily provide funds lists to us.  It's a blessing in itself to see where your money's going...to provide air conditionings to senior citizens, medicine for young children, to missionaries, etc.

Did I answer your questions?


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## Southernbella. (Aug 24, 2007)

*I did not say we are to keep quiet about issues, but it just really seems that it does nothing but turn into gossip. I mean really, it seems that there is no balance in this area, especially when it's randomly done. I noticed what you said about Paula White in the unpopular opinions thread. I mean seriously, what was the point of calling her a fake minister pimpstress or whatever? Was that necessary? Did you think about the people who are actually being blessed by her ministry? Why not just leave it at you don't care for her? If she is indeed a false prophet, God will handle that. We are not supposed to be looking toward these ministers as our answer to life anyway. There are plenty of ministers that I don't care for, but when I am tempted to say something negative I have to ask, what is my objective for bringing up this and that issue? Is my heart really to warn or just plain ol' gossip? I don't think I've even seen you really say anything positive about any issues dealing with ministries, but I see a lot of finger pointing. What happened to specks, planks and all of that?* 

She is a fake and a pimp. I'm sorry if that offends you. I'm judging her by her fruit, which is what I'm supposed to do. I don't know her, so I can't judge her as a person, but as for her ministry...she is out for money, and she preys on the poor and black. That is 70% of her membership.

I applaud you for having sincere intentions. I really do. It's great that you stop and ask yourself about your motives and intentions. 

My intention is to warn. I don't have time to sugarcoat or to try to find the positive. I'll leave that for others to do. We're talking about people's lives here. I don't care one whit about what she, or any of them, do on their own time, but when they are in the pulpit telling lies and deceiving innocent people, then yes, I have something to say. And no, I don't have a whole lot of positive to say about any of these people. The people I can say positive things about aren't famous or Hollywood, so there's no point in me saying anything about them here.

I understand where you're coming from, I really do. I see how you might find all of my posts negative, and that's your right. But I'm not trying to be nice or sweet. People are in bondage and idolizing these ministers for things that have nothing to do with God or Jesus or salvation. We are seeing these facades cracking now. I don't wish ill for any of them. I pray that they all get delivered and get set on fire for the Lord. Until then, I will continue to call them out.

*It is different hence me saying different partner same scenario. How are you for certain that the person you don't like is a false teacher? Are you using biblical counsel or are you using your own opinion about what you dislike about their ministry*

Easy. I look at what they say, and I look at the Bible. If it doesn't line up, they are false teachers. The Holy Spirit is my biblical counsel. If anyone disagrees with me, they are welcome to correct me. I don't think I know it all. I'm always ready to be taught. We can look at some of these ministers' messages and line them up with scripture. 

I'm not perfect, and never pretended to be, and yes, I've got plenty of specks, planks, boards, and ALL that in my own eyes. You've pointed some out to me, and I appreciate it.


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## p31woman (Aug 24, 2007)

To me...

What goes on at home should stay at home.

Even though I don't like the negativity it brings, we should be critiqued, but not in anyway shape or form that is disrespectful of one another, that would be a direct violation of what God taught us. I think Christians should talk to other Christians about their dissapointments and hangups about Christinanity. If we are down here trying to win souls, why give the devil ammo to toss at a non-believer or an unsaved believer and make them even more unlikely to chose the correct path. The devil is gonna congure enough ammo without the help of Christians.

Besides, if you are talking about the dissatisfaction and hangups of your beliefs with someone who doesn't believe, how can they give you sound advise? Why would you even entertain their thoughts about a life they do not know?  The bible says not to gossip but to go to each other if we have a problem. Each other in this case being the body of Christ.


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## Southernbella. (Aug 24, 2007)

Oh, and my purpose for saying it on that thread was because that was my upopular opinion. I don't consider people who fleece the flock to be part of the family anyway.


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## p31woman (Aug 24, 2007)

lauren450 said:


> Oh, and my purpose for saying it on that thread was because that was my upopular opinion. I don't consider people who fleece the flock to be part of the family anyway.


 
Oh no sweetheart! I hadn't even read your post yet...lol

I was just responding to the OP's question.

I'm reading now ...lol


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## Southernbella. (Aug 24, 2007)

p31woman said:


> Oh no sweetheart! I hadn't even read your post yet...lol
> 
> I was just responding to the OP's question.
> 
> I'm reading now ...lol


 
Oh, that was an add on to my other post. I forgot that part of Bubln's post and I was responding. Sorry!


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## p31woman (Aug 24, 2007)

lauren450 said:


> Oh, that was an add on to my other post. I forgot that part of Bubln's post and I was responding. Sorry!


 

lol..I guess we are both a lil slow tonight...lol

I see you are in Atlanta...enjoy the rain...Who knows when we will get it again!


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## mkh_77 (Aug 25, 2007)

Bublnbrnsuga said:


> I don't believe one should ignore anyone's wrongdoings especially in the church, but my point is, why constantly point out that someone is false prophet, when it just may anger the person who is seeking God and finds wise counsel in that person? What proof are you providing for such a claim? Going around labeling one as a false prophet is just as dangerous as being a false prophet .I think this is a reason many stop going to church b/c whether they admit it or not, they tend to say they point out this or that false prophet when they can't see the good in any minister at all. It just causes confusion b/c it may make one think 'who can they trust to minister to them?' In this case, that person needs to seek GOD and not man who may find faults in everything a minister does. God will reveal it to them, if they truly seek Him.


 
Agreed.



			
				Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> I give a great example in my life  I used to listen to a lot of ministers who spoke prosperity, the happy life, the abundant life, etc. I mean, who doesn't want to be prosperous? It wasn't until God revealed it to me to stop seeking things and seek Him about what I need. Since then, I don't really listen to those ministers, but there's no way I am going to sit here and point the finger at them and call them false prophets. If I do, and I happen to be right, what will I say... 'told ya so!' What good will this do for anyone?


 
Maybe you wouldn't say, "Told ya so", but you might have given someone pause before investing their money into a sham of a ministry by revealing the false/misguided preachings.  Is that such a bad thing?



			
				Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> If you truly believe someone is a false prophet, there's a way of going about pointing it out to people rather than calling them names. There's a way to go about such a thing and if you go about it the right way, no one will question your motives. It makes that person seem just a petty as the person they are pointing out. So many are labeled this way and it's unrightly deserved. I think it also has to do with the intent of your heart,too. Unsolicited 'advice' ends up being gossip, IMO. Am I making sense?


 
I completely understand your point, however, how would you suggest those pointing out wrongs go about it?  Sometimes a thief is just that, a thief, and there is no other way to say it.  When you are honest about such things, I think people often appreciate that honesty.  Especially when you are being honest and you don't stand to benefit in some way (ex. I am telling you X minister is delivering misguided teachings/messages because I really want you to come to know God for yourself).  I would like to believe that most of the time, people are sharing their opinions and experiences with no ulterior motives attached.  



			
				Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> About the misappropriation (sp?) of funds. I can truly say that back in the day, I thought knowing where your tithes and offerings are going was none of my business, but this is not the case anymore. *If you KNOW for sure of some scandal surrounding your ministry, why would you fund it?* God has given us wisdom and it shouldn't stop flowing once we reach the church doors. Now, I don't go demanding to see where my tithes/offerings are going  but I thank God that the church and the ministries I give to voluntarily provide funds lists to us. It's a blessing in itself to see where your money's going...to provide air conditionings to senior citizens, medicine for young children, to missionaries, etc.


 
I am glad to see this, especially the bolded because I see the opposite so often in this forum.



			
				Bublnbrnsuga said:
			
		

> Did I answer your questions?


 
Yes, thank you.


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## Bublnbrnsuga (Aug 25, 2007)

Here goes 




mkh_77 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very welcome!


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## Mocha5 (Sep 13, 2007)

Bublnbrnsuga said:


> especially around non-Christians. Does this bother you? If so, why and if not, why not? I ask b/c I know as humans under the umbrella of Christianity, some things that are done are questionable, but one thing I noticed is that other religions have their faults,too, but I don't hear Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc discussing their religious ills around others who don't share the same faith. *I really try to watch what I say about what I dislike about some ministers, churches, etc unless it's just something just super crazy, but even then, I don't make it a habit of pointing out what's wrong with my faith. *
> 
> Same scenario, different partner, I do the same thing when I am around non-blacks. I DO NOT talk about the ills in the black community or high five non-blacks when they point out something that's going on with us. I mean seriously, what's the point? To try to prove yourself as one of the 'cool ones?'


 

Good thread.  I'm finally getting around to responding.  It definitely can be a bit disheartening.  But everyone has their own walk.  As we mature in Christ I think we will all question our past behavior.  I think that we should be edifying one another as much as possible though.  Love covers a ton of offenses and I think more than anything love is what will draw people to Christ.  So I try to reflect love.  Before posting or speaking, I ask myself if I will encourage someone or glorify God in some way.  If I can't then it's probably better left unposted or unsaid.  Am I there 100% of the time?  Nope.  But I'm flawed and definitely a work in progress.  If I wasn't I wouldn't need Jesus.  But I think it's a good starting point.


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## PaperClip (Sep 13, 2007)

I said it before and I'll say it again:

You don't talk to everybody about everything.

Everybody's not qualified to listen. Everybody's not equipped to understand. Everybody's not sensitive enough to the Holy Spirit to discern sincere questioning versus criticism.

Such talk (esp. around weak/new/disgruntled believers) weakens one's witness. Such talk cultivates discord, and that is very displeasing to the Lord and there's a price to pay for disturbing the body like that.

And if folk are so vocal about spiritual things, maybe there's a case of verbal DIAHRREA about natural things. In other words, if they're talking about the things of the Lord (proven or otherwise), they wouldn't think twice about talking about you, BEHIND YOUR BACK 'cause these same folk won't go DIRECTLY to the source to complain.... That's a PUNK MOVE.

And let's explore what Jesus did: He had VERY DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS with His disciples versus His exchanges with the masses. Didn't He even say something like having to use parables to explain the Kingdom for better understanding? And with regard to the Pharisees: 1) Jesus is Lord, Jesus is the Church embodied, so He could say what He wanted to say and do what He wanted to do; 2) Because Jesus is Lord, and has all authority, He was in the right place to do correction. Everybody isn't authorized to correct; and 3) Jesus was SO SLICK with His, His correction didn't come with harm or to tear down the person/ministry, but to build it up, to fulfill it.


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## PaperClip (Sep 13, 2007)

I don't know if I should share this here, but um... here I go:

Involving Juanita Bynum versus Paula White. Simply stated: Juanita Bynum had been criticized for "marketing her misery/situation".

I'm watching a replay of Paula White (being interviewed by Carman) on TBN (Sept. 12, 2007 http://www.tbn.org/index.php/2/37.html).

Carman has been a VERY GRACIOUS HOST to Paula, throwing her "softball" questions, if you will, concerning her situation. To me, in a more subtle way compared to her African-American counterpart, it sounds like Paula is doing the same thing of "marketing her misery/situation". She did a preaching segment as well....

Why the seeming imbalance in criticism? 

Am I "airing dirty laundry" by asking this question in this public forum?


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## Southernbella. (Sep 14, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:


> I don't know if I should share this here, but um... here I go:
> 
> Involving Juanita Bynum versus Paula White. Simply stated: Juanita Bynum had been criticized for "marketing her misery/situation".
> 
> ...


 
Believe me, I have the same issues with Paula, and she was the first person I ever criticized here, which got folks upset with me. I think in this situation, more people are familiar with Bynum. Not only have most people seen or heard of "No More Sheets", but most people also knew of her wedding. She's more of a "celebrity", which is why you can find info about her in ENT.


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## Shimmie (Sep 14, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again:
> 
> *You don't talk to everybody about everything.*
> 
> ...


Thank you...Thank you....Thank you.  Beautiful post and I fully agree.


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## Shimmie (Sep 14, 2007)

RelaxerRehab said:


> I don't know if I should share this here, but um... here I go:
> 
> Involving Juanita Bynum versus Paula White. Simply stated: Juanita Bynum had been criticized for "marketing her misery/situation".
> 
> ...


 Am I that bad, RR? 

I have to go back to your precious post that I just highlighted above. You've spoken which I have been trying to convey in the Juanita Bynum threads here. 

It's not about airing dirty laundry. What I'm seeing is dirt being added to the laundry by the harsh comments about her, here in the Forum where loving prayers should be. It's one thing to have it in the ENT and OT forums, but can you see it being brought over here from the ENT and OT threads, the spirit of gossip and criticism and harshness... the Craig Lewis spirit which is demonic in itsself. It's just not right.

You and I come from the 'same' teaching principles of God's Kingdom, and this is not what Christians should do. Your post above explains it to a 'T'. When a brother/sister errors, we have to put what we feel aside and pray for their recovery, not kill them with anger and criticism.

I'll use one of your terms, which I admire..."But I digress..." I love that phrase of yours... 

Take care, RR.  I apologize to you for coming down so hard about this subject. But it just doesn't sit well in my spirit what I've been reading. And for me of ALL persons, that's a miracle.   You know how I do...


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## Poohbear (Sep 14, 2007)

Bublnbrnsuga said:


> especially around non-Christians. Does this bother you? If so, why and if not, why not? I ask b/c I know as humans under the umbrella of Christianity, some things that are done are questionable, but one thing I noticed is that other religions have their faults,too, but I don't hear Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc discussing their religious ills around others who don't share the same faith. I really try to watch what I say about what I dislike about some ministers, churches, etc unless it's just something just super crazy, but even then, I don't make it a habit of pointing out what's wrong with my faith.
> 
> Same scenario, different partner, I do the same thing when I am around non-blacks. I DO NOT talk about the ills in the black community or high five non-blacks when they point out something that's going on with us. I mean seriously, what's the point? To try to prove yourself as one of the 'cool ones?'


Sometimes, it does bother me when Christians and non-Christians alike point out what's wrong with our faith. Many of the things that they say is wrong with our faith are really just distortions and misconceptions that they have developed about our faith. They do not realize that true Christianity is where Christians believe inwardly and outwardly that Jesus' death has allowed God to offer them forgiveness and eternal life as a free gift. Christians have accepted that gift by faith and are seeking to live a life of obedient gratitude for what God has done for them. Christianity is both private and public, believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is God's Son, and the Lord and Savior of your life. Our relationship to God and the power He provides result in obedience. Having received the gift of forgiveness and eternal life, we are now daily challenged to live that life with His help from the Holy Spirit. With saying that, I see NOTHING wrong with the Christian faith. And I also agree with you when you said we should start praying instead of bashing. We should also try to live as examples for everyone in this world. Yes, we all sin and fall short, but we cannot continue to use that as an excuse to lose faith and lose sight of God's purpose.

And you're right about the comparison you made with "Christians talking bad about Christianity to non-Christians" is the same as "Blacks talking bad about the Black community to non-Blacks." It's like verbal back-stabbing.


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## Poohbear (Sep 14, 2007)

Bublnbrnsuga said:


> I don't believe one should ignore anyone's wrongdoings especially in the church, but my point is, why constantly point out that someone is false prophet, when it just may anger the person who is seeking God and finds wise counsel in that person? What proof are you providing for such a claim? Going around labeling one as a false prophet is just as dangerous as being a false prophet .I think this is a reason many stop going to church b/c whether they admit it or not, they tend to say they point out this or that false prophet when they can't see the good in any minister at all. It just causes confusion b/c it may make one think 'who can they trust to minister to them?' In this case, that person needs to seek GOD and not man who may find faults in everything a minister does. God will reveal it to them, if they truly seek Him.


I will have to agree with this!!!

There is a minister at our church who CONSTANTLY points out fasle prophets, false teachers, etc.  He even makes judgments about others' salvation and where they will spend eternity.   Many people like him use Matthew 23, where Jesus condemns the religious leaders, as justification that they can judge others. And they use scriptures from the Bible about having the spirit of discernment to judge others. But they do not realize that judging and condemning should be left with God.  Yes, there are true and false believers in churches today, but we should be cautious in our judgments because only Christ is qualified to make the final separation.  When we start judging, we may damage some of the good "plants" as Jesus mentions in His parable of the weeds in Matthew 13.  It's more important to judge our OWN response to God than to analyze others' responses.


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## Shimmie (Sep 14, 2007)

Poohbear said:


> I will have to agree with this!!!
> 
> *There is a minister at our church who CONSTANTLY points out fasle prophets, false teachers, etc. He even makes judgments about others' salvation and where they will spend eternity.  Many people like him use Matthew 23, where Jesus condemns the religious leaders, as justification that they can judge others. And they use scriptures from the Bible about having the spirit of discernment to judge others.*
> 
> ...


 
AMEN to both of your posts...!    

God bless you Poohbear.    I asked God to send in the ones with the right answers.  He wasted no time with both you and Relaxer Rehab...

There's just a right way to go about doing things when we talk about our Faith and its challenges...


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