# Store Pulls Christian Magazine for Honoring Female Clergy



## BeaLady (Sep 23, 2008)

*Gospel Today magazine pulled from some bookstores' shelves*

Sep. 21, 2008 
Updated: Sep. 22, 2008

Durham, N.C. — A national Christian magazine featuring a Durham pastor is causing controversy after it was pulled from the shelves of a major book chain.

For nine years, pastor Sheryl Brady has used her enthusiasm and energy to inspire her congregation at The River Church, 4005 Holt School Road. So when she was chosen to be on the cover of Gospel Today magazine, as one of the fastest growing women-led congregations in the United States, she jumped at the chance.

“It was a huge honor. I was just blessed to be there,” Brady said.

However, soon after the magazine's September-October issue was published, all 150 Lifeway Christian Bookstores pulled the issue from its shelves because of its affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention.

The group says women pastors go against its beliefs, according to its interpretation of the New Testament.

“I'm shocked. I'm shocked that you're here (and) that we're having this conversation. I'm shocked that in 2008 that there's still a gender prejudice in the church,” Brady said.

Published for nearly 20 years, Gospel Today is the largest and most widely distributed urban Christian publication in the country, with a circulation of 240,000. The magazine's publisher, Dr. Teresa Hairston, said she was just reporting on a trend, not trying to promote female pastors.

“I look at this and I think it's humiliating. I think it's degrading that they would take this magazine and yank it off the shelves because women are in leadership,” Hairston said.

Nationally, the Southern Baptists have adopted statements discouraging women from being pastors, but their 42,000 U.S. churches are independent and a few have selected women to lead their congregations. The denomination was organized in 1845 in Augusta, Ga.

Chris Turner, a spokesman for Lifeway Resources, said the cover was not the reason the magazine was pulled from Lifeway's shelves.

"The buyers said the statements that were in it took positions that were contrary to what we would say," Turner said. "It wasn't so much that there were women on the cover."

Pastor Bill Sanderson – a staunch supporter of the Southern Baptist Convention – said in a statement Sunday,  " We go by scripture and what the word of God teaches." 

Sanderson added, "A man holds the position of pastor not a woman."

“You can't tell me I'm not a pastor. I'm a shepherd of these people,” Brady said.

Featured on the cover are Brady; Pastor Tamara Bennett of This Is Pentecost Ministries in Sacramento, Calif.; Bishop Millicent Hunter of The Baptist Worship Center in Philadelphia, Pa.; Pastor Claudette Copeland of New Creation Christian Fellowship in San Antonio, Texas; and Pastor Kimberly Ray of Church on the Rock in Matteson, Ill.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3582253/


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## tmichelle (Sep 23, 2008)

^^^  Interesting, thanks for posting this.  Being that Lifeway Christian is a Southern Baptist based chain, I'm surprised she is shocked.  Would she expect an Amish store to carry this issue?


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## Aviah (Sep 23, 2008)

BeaLady said:


> *Gospel Today magazine pulled from some bookstores' shelves*
> 
> Sep. 21, 2008
> Updated: Sep. 22, 2008
> ...



This comes to mind....
Galatians 3:28-
"There is neither Jew nor Greek,  slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."


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## tmichelle (Sep 23, 2008)

Aviah said:


> This comes to mind....
> Galatians 3:28-
> "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."


 
In Christ we are definitely one.  Does this mean that we are all called to the same roles?  If so then I suppose you would have no issue with any distinction?  Including homosexual marriages?


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## momi (Sep 23, 2008)

I am not surprised - that is like having a McDonald's inside of a Whole-Foods.  It is contrary to their beliefs.  

I actually commend LifeWay for this move... they took a stand for what they believe.  In this age of super-tolerance I think we can all learn something from that.


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## BeaLady (Sep 23, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> ^^^  Interesting, thanks for posting this.  Being that Lifeway Christian is a Southern Baptist based chain, I'm surprised she is shocked.  Would she expect an Amish store to carry this issue?



I doubt she would expect an Amish store to carry her magazine.  The store has been carrying her magazine.  I think it's a little ironic because the article says that most churches are independent and some of their congregations have selected women to lead their churches.


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## Caramela (Sep 23, 2008)

Thank you. I agree with the bookstore's decision to pull the book. If the female "pastor" truly honored and believed that the bible had the final say, she would understand that it had nothing to do with sexism. 

this is a classic example of Burger King Christianity... Contrary to popular belief you cannot "HAVE IT YOUR WAY!"...


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## Caramela (Sep 23, 2008)

Thank you. I agree with the bookstore's decision to pull the book. If the female "pastor" truly honored and believed that the bible had the final say, she would understand that it had nothing to do with sexism. 

this is a classic example of Burger King Christianity... Contrary to popular belief you cannot "HAVE IT YOUR WAY!"...


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## Caramela (Sep 23, 2008)

Thank you. I agree with the bookstore's decision to pull the book. If the female "pastor" truly honored and believed that the bible had the final say, she would understand that it had nothing to do with sexism. 

this is a classic example of Burger King Christianity... Contrary to popular belief you cannot "HAVE IT YOUR WAY!"...


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## PaperClip (Sep 23, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> In Christ we are definitely one. Does this mean that we are all called to the same roles? If so then I suppose you would have no issue with any distinction? Including homosexual marriages?


 
Not a sound comparison....

My journalistic side says that a bookstore should be open (within reasonable limits) to allowing access of a variety of opinions to its consumers. Like if I go to a Black bookstore and there are some books there that I can buy about White supremacist thought, you know, that's a courageous thing to do.

My Holy Spirit (which takes precedence) again, I'm curious about the fear of having ONE ISSUE of this magazine cause so much fear and threat, esp. if they've carried the magazine all this time. If they wanted to make a strong statement, then cancel selling the magazine altogether, right? Or is it because some of their consumers look for that magazine in their stores each month and the store doesn't want to lose their business, right? It's all about the money....

Doctrine/theology aside: I'm not impressed that they pulled the issue.


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## BeaLady (Sep 23, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Not a sound comparison....
> 
> My journalistic side says that a bookstore should be open (within reasonable limits) to allowing access of a variety of opinions to its consumers. Like if I go to a Black bookstore and there are some books there that I can buy about White supremacist thought, you know, that's a courageous thing to do.
> 
> ...



I agree with you.  This bothers me because I think there may have been other reasons for doing this.  

We don't have this bookstore in my part of the country so I looked at their website.  I found books by John Hagee who believes in speaking in tongues which is not wholly accepted by the Southern Baptists.  I found a book by Jimmy Carter who left the denomination because he didn't agree with their stance on women ministers.  They had music by Shirley Caesar and Juanita Bynum, a pastor and a minister.  I also found a book titled, Courage and Hope: The Stories of Ten Baptist Women Ministers.

That is what bothered me.  They were not consistent and it appears hypocritical to me.


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## BeaLady (Sep 23, 2008)

Duplicate post


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## Caramela (Sep 23, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Not a sound comparison....
> 
> My journalistic side says that a bookstore should be open (within reasonable limits) to allowing access of a variety of opinions to its consumers. Like if I go to a Black bookstore and there are some books there that I can buy about White supremacist thought, you know, that's a courageous thing to do.
> 
> ...




But what if it were a homosexual "pastor" - would you agree with the bookstore pulling the book. Or would you still say that the bookstore should be "open"?


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## BeaLady (Sep 23, 2008)

Duplicate post


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## momi (Sep 23, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> Not a sound comparison....
> 
> My journalistic side says that a bookstore should be open (within reasonable limits) to allowing access of a variety of opinions to its consumers. Like if I go to a Black bookstore and there are some books there that I can buy about White supremacist thought, you know, that's a courageous thing to do.
> 
> ...


 

I understand your premise, however biblical headship is a serious matter and should be looked into further by most Christians. Just because we see a thing and it appears to be working - does not mean we should adopt it as gospel.

Honestly, had I gone into the bookstore and seen the magazine I would not have thought much about it, but since it has come to the forefront I support their decision based reasons stated in my previous post.

May I add that I love this forum and enjoy our conversations here!


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## momi (Sep 23, 2008)

double post ---- 

i can't stand when this happens


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## momi (Sep 23, 2008)

deleted -

<<double post>>>


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## BeaLady (Sep 23, 2008)

Duplicate post


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## BeaLady (Sep 23, 2008)

Duplicate post


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## BeaLady (Sep 23, 2008)

Duplicate post


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## PaperClip (Sep 23, 2008)

Caramela said:


> But what if it were a homosexual "pastor" - would you agree with the bookstore pulling the book. Or would you still say that the bookstore should be "open"?


 
In order to PULL a book, you have to have ORDERED the book in the first place. So if in this bookstore's purchasing catalog, there was a book about a homosexual pastor, then don't order the book at all.

If the book was ordered in the bookstore and it was FOUND OUT that the pastor was homosexual and all these other scandals came out about him, well one of two things would happen: 1) the book would sell out like hotcakes so the book wouldn't have to be pulled; or 2) if the book had some redeeming qualities about it outside of the vessel being caught in sin, do you pull the book? Maybe, maybe not.


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## PaperClip (Sep 23, 2008)

momi said:


> I understand your premise, however biblical headship is a serious matter and should be looked into further by most Christians. Just because we see a thing and it appears to be working - does not mean we should adopt it as gospel.
> 
> Honestly, had I gone into the bookstore and seen the magazine I would not have thought much about it, but since it has come to the forefront I support their decision based reasons stated in my previous post.
> 
> May I add that I love this forum and enjoy our conversations here!


 

In order to PULL a book, you had to have ordered it in the first place. I would say that this magazine probably has had other content that did not align with this Southern Baptist organization. The only difference with this issue is that it is on the front cover. I go back to my main point: is one issue going to wreck an entire organization? Nope.


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## momi (Sep 23, 2008)

FoxyScholar said:


> In order to PULL a book, you had to have ordered it in the first place. I would say that this magazine probably has had other content that did not align with this Southern Baptist organization. The only difference with this issue is that it is on the front cover. I go back to my *main point*: is one issue going to wreck an entire organization? Nope.


 

That is true - I am sure that other issues have come up that do not line up with their views as a whole.  The fact that it was on the front cover probably was the deciding factor.

As for your main point - This is indeed is a serious issue that is wrecking havock on the body of the Christ.  A lack of male leadership is running rampant is our churches and homes.  I am sure that many of women who pastor do so because of the lack of qualified and willing men able to do so (see Deborah in the book of Judges)  

Which came first? A lack of male leadership in our homes or our churches???  Either way it has left us with more weak, effiminate(sp), selfish men than I care to see.


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## PaperClip (Sep 23, 2008)

momi said:


> That is true - I am sure that other issues have come up that do not line up with their views as a whole. The fact that it was on the front cover probably was the deciding factor.
> 
> As for your main point - This is indeed is a serious issue that is wrecking havock on the body of the Christ. *A lack of male leadership is running rampant is our churches and homes.* Which came first? A lack of male leadership in our homes or our churches??? Either way it has left us with more weak, effiminate(sp), selfish men than I care to see.


 
Good question... loaded question... but good question....


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 23, 2008)

This thread and many like it makes me sad. 

*shakes my head and leaves this thread right away*


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## Aviah (Sep 23, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> In Christ we are definitely one.  Does this mean that we are all called to the same roles?  If so then I suppose you would have no issue with any distinction?  Including homosexual marriages?



All I said was it came to mind, please, don't throw me into the deep end.  As far as I know, the scriptures that refer to women not speaking in church were to due the sociological context at the time:

http://www.kencollins.com/question-32.htm

Many feel that Paul prohibited women from     speaking publicly to the congregation. However, if this is Paul’s teaching,     this is not the proof text for it.
   We must bear in mind that this epistle is addressed ‘to the church of God     in Corinth,’ not ‘to anyone who happens to read this.’ (1 Corinthians 1:2)     We are reading this epistle, as it were, over the shoulders of the Corinthian     church, to which it is immediately addressed. Any interpretation of this     passage that applies it directly to us without taking the circumstances in     Corinth into account is faulty and—well—unbiblical.
   This passage deals with the general issue of when people are to speak and     when they are to defer to other speakers during a worship service. If you     are looking for the qualifications for leadership, you have to look in other     places, in particular 1 Timothy and Titus.
   The women who are ‘speaking’ in this passage are not addressing the assembly     in a leadership role, they were talking while the worship service was in     progress, disrupting it with questions about the proceedings.
   Paul says that the questions should not be asked during church, but afterwards     at home.
   The Greek verb translated here as ‘speak’ is λαλεω, which indicates the     activity rather than the content of speech. (It is the verb that regularly     introduces quotations.) Thus, we could better translate this as saying that     ‘it is a disgrace for women to talk in church’ and ‘they are not allowed     to talk.’
   The Greek verb λαλεω appears in the present infinitive, so we could improve     on our translation even further by saying, ‘it is a disgrace for women to     be talking in church’ and ‘they are not allowed to be talking.’ If Paul had     meant to say, ‘it is not permitted for women to preach,’ he would have used     a different verb, and would have cast it in the aorist infinitive.
   The Greek verb translated ‘remain silent’ means to refrain from talking     out of respect, just as we do not chatter during prayers or the sermon or     a choir performance.
   As for the submission, the most we can get out of the passage at hand is     that women, like everyone else, have to submit to the general rules of order     and decorum. Decorum in worship is in fact one of the main themes of this     epistle. The topic here is order in the church, not the intrinsic value of     women, not the qualifications for church leadership, and not ordination.
   Since the general context is about speaking out of turn in church, we can     only conclude that Paul is saying that it is disgraceful for women to disrupt     the service by asking questions of the other parishioners. They are not allowed     to be talking, they should hold their questions until afterwards. *Given that     the women of Corinth were disrupting the service with their chatter, hardly     anyone would disagree with Paul’s advice*. Inserting any other meaning is     eisegesis, not exegesis; it fallaciously conflates the text.


No, we do not have the same roles. But i feel God can use a woman to speak in His house if He can use a donkey...

 I do believe the word of God is true and final, but I feel we have to look at context. That was all... (and I'm not being offensive to anyone, I know threads like these can light up in no time!)


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## tmichelle (Sep 23, 2008)

Aviah said:


> All I said was it came to mind, please, don't throw me into the deep end. As far as I know, the scriptures that refer to women not speaking in church were to due the sociological context at the time:
> 
> http://www.kencollins.com/question-32.htm
> 
> ...


 
Sorry if I misrepesented you wrongly.  I have heard the above mentioned argument many times and I highly disagree with it in the context of all other scripture.  

Also, a donkey never spoke in God's house.  Balaam's donkey spoke to him directly on a road to curse the house of Isreal.


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## Aviah (Sep 23, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> Sorry if I misrepesented you wrongly.  I have heard the above mentioned argument many times and I highly disagree with it in the context of all other scripture.
> 
> Also, a donkey never spoke in God's house.  Balaam's donkey spoke to him directly on a road to curse the house of Isreal.



It's okay, no offense taken. Would you mind telling why you disagree?
I know the donkey didn't speak in God's house. How can women prophesy and not be allowed to speak in church? What about prayer? 
And can someone please tell me what this has to do with male leadership? I really thought it was all about the hearts of God's people being reconciled to Him as well as it being His pleasure to reign in His kingdom... these sound like legalisms to me... I'm not nit picking here but I would like to understand.... erplexed


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## PaperClip (Sep 23, 2008)

St. John 1:1 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Mary (a woman) "carried" and "delivered" the Word.

So it is in the natural, so it is in the spirit.


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 23, 2008)

"....walk a mile in my shoes and see how far The Father takes you!"

Blessings to all!


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## tmichelle (Sep 24, 2008)

Aviah said:


> It's okay, no offense taken. Would you mind telling why you disagree?
> I know the donkey didn't speak in God's house. How can women prophesy and not be allowed to speak in church? What about prayer?
> And can someone please tell me what this has to do with male leadership? I really thought it was all about the hearts of God's people being reconciled to Him as well as it being His pleasure to reign in His kingdom... these sound like legalisms to me... I'm not nit picking here but I would like to understand.... erplexed


 
Sure, I'll pm you later today.


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## Caramela (Sep 24, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> This thread and many like it makes me sad.
> 
> *shakes my head and leaves this thread right away*



When things are outside of God's natural order, I'm sure it makes HIM sad as well.


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## momi (Sep 24, 2008)

I don't think the issue discussed here is women having the authority to speak in the church. There are many women noted in scripture that prophesy and proclaim God's word.


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## tmichelle (Sep 24, 2008)

Aviah said:


> It's okay, no offense taken. Would you mind telling why you disagree?
> I know the donkey didn't speak in God's house. How can women prophesy and not be allowed to speak in church? What about prayer?
> And can someone please tell me what this has to do with male leadership? I really thought it was all about the hearts of God's people being reconciled to Him as well as it being His pleasure to reign in His kingdom... these sound like legalisms to me... I'm not nit picking here but I would like to understand.... erplexed


 
I pm'd a 3 part response (sorry for the length).


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 25, 2008)

Caramela said:


> When things are outside of God's natural order, I'm sure it makes HIM sad as well.


 
I'm sure it does, and people assuming that whom He uses for His Glory and to help deliver people from a life of sin that they are in a wrong place, breaks his heart even more.


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## MrsQueeny (Sep 25, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> This thread and many like it makes me sad.
> 
> *shakes my head and leaves this thread right away*



You know it used to bother me but now it doesn't. You know I am about my Father's business and doing the work HE has called me to do.  As long as HE is pleased with me, no one else matters.  Blessings to you my sister.  Q


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## Caramela (Sep 25, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I'm sure it does, and people assuming that whom He uses for His Glory and to help deliver people from a life of sin that they are in a wrong place, breaks his heart even more.



That is so true. People should not lean upon their own understanding as indicated in Proverbs 3:5. If we follow what the word of God says regarding leadership in His Church, and not our personal assumptions, there would be no room for error on our part. It's a good thing that there are many ways for God to use us for his glory and help deliver people from a life of sin other than women being pastors, bishops and deacons. Praise God!


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 25, 2008)

***Que*** said:


> You know it used to bother me but now it doesn't. You know I am about my Father's business and doing the work HE has called me to do. As long as HE is pleased with me, no one else matters. Blessings to you my sister. Q


 
Thank you my sister.

This is why I can understand the people who don't come to the CF because of nonsense.  

I thank God that He uses me in PM land for such a time as this!


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## MrsQueeny (Sep 25, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thank you my sister.
> 
> This is why I can understand the people who don't come to the CF because of nonsense.
> 
> I thank God that He uses me in PM land for such a time as this!



Well some folks like to be right but I am focused on being righteous which is right in God's eyes.  He speaks to me enough that if I was not doing His will, I would have been called on it already. I never asked for it, He called me.  So as a good daughter would, I am following the words of my Father.  I love all of my sisters and Christ regardless but I won't let how others feel keep me from doing the work He called me to.   Q


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 25, 2008)

Caramela said:


> That is so true. People should not lean upon their own understanding as indicated in Proverbs 3:5. If we follow what the word of God says regarding leadership in His Church, and not our personal assumptions, there would be no room for error on our part. It's a good thing that there are many ways for God to use us for his glory and help deliver people from a life of sin other than women being pastors, bishops and deacons. Praise God!


 
I thank God everyday that He uses those of *us* who *listen to His voice, and the voice of a stranger they do not follow*. Keep preaching, Women of God!!

I thank God that He uses me to lead people to Jesus, and that He allows me the strength to get up at 3am when someone is in the hospital and when some wife is abused and need help, or the teen that calls me when they need help because of drug addiction or pregnancy or when a parent needs a shoulder to cry on and someone to talk to because the children are stressing him/her out or allows me to pray that God's will be done in the life of a person who is thinking about suicide, and that He gives me His power to lay hands on the sick and see them recover.....oh, yes....I thank Him for this!  I also thank Him for those who come to the altar to give their lives to Christ, after I have given the Word of God...Oh, yes....He is wonderful indeed!  Why just the other week, 30 people gave their lives to Jesus, after I preached the Word!  Isn't that wonderful?

Oh, He's a wonderful God and One that chooses whom He wills to do His good pleasure and I thank God that HE CHOSE ME...I WILL CONTINUE TO SUBMIT TO HIS WILL AND TO DO WHAT HE TELLS ME TO DO!!!

Praise Ye the Lord, for it's His Mercy that endures....forever!


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 25, 2008)

***Que*** said:


> Well some folks like to be right but I am focused on being righteous which is right in God's eyes. He speaks to me enough that if I was not doing His will, I would have been called on it already. I never asked for it, He called me. So as a good daughter would, I am following the words of my Father. I love all of my sisters and Christ regardless but I won't let how others feel keep me from doing the work He called me to. Q


 
Amen.....I'm in total agreement with you, Minister Que!

Bless you and your ministry, always!


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 25, 2008)

***Que*** said:


> *Well some folks like to be right but I am focused on being righteous which is right in God's eyes*. *He speaks to me enough that if I was not doing His will, I would have been called on it already. I never asked for it, He called me.* So as a good daughter would, I am following the words of my Father. I love all of my sisters and Christ regardless but I won't let how others feel keep me from doing the work He called me to. Q


 
This is such a blessing, Que!


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## Shimmie (Sep 25, 2008)

Ruth, Esther, Deborah, 

ALL of US here, carrying the word and we 'teach' , 'preach', 'pray', lead, set free, people around us each and everyday. 

Our husbands, DEPEND upon our 'leadership' in Christ Jesus.  Our Male Pastors depend upon the leadership we 'women' have in Christ Jesus.  

If more Male Men were doing what they should be doing, there wouldn't be a need for women heading a Church.    But God still uses whom He wills and whether we like it or not, it's not going to change.  

Where would this forum be , let alone our lives and the lives of others, were we 'women' not leaders of God's word.     

In this day in which we live, evil is too prevelant for women not to be leaders in God's word.   It's the only reason God hasn't come to destoy this earth.   We carry the Word... Women and without it, death would surely be master.   

Taking a 'stand' on traditions isn't the weapon we need against today's demons.  We need strong weapons of spiritual warfare and men alone can't do it.   God knows what He's doing for when you see a woman Pastor, thank God, for God has raised up a standard against the enemy where he thought was a foothold.  

You see, wherever there's a gap, satan slips in.   God is filling the gaps with men *and women*.   Joel 2 plainly states it, that in the last days, that God will be pouring out His Spirit upon ALL flesh.   And it's the flesh who receives and absorbs the Spirit of God, as opposed to the spirit of this world, whom God will use.   

This woman Pastor is God's Shield of Faith where satan cannot enter.  God has set a standard -- a bound, that satan cannot cross over.  

Be free my sisters and brothers...... be free and uphold every man and woman bearing the Word of God.   For we cannot afford to spend and waste time disputing gender or even making extreme comparisons (i.e. homosexuality).   This creates a gap in our walls of protection, and satan will slip even a fungus toenail in, if he can.   

Let the woman prevail, for the Holy Spirit is STILL in control, not satan.  God needs us and our Men need us all the more.   We are 'meeting' their help quite suitable.   :heart2:


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 25, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Ruth, Esther, Deborah,
> 
> ALL of US here, carrying the word and we 'teach' , 'preach', 'pray', lead, set free, people around us each and everyday.
> 
> ...


 
My Lord and my God!  Thank you for this Woman of God that you have placed here on this forum with wisdom and might. Thank you, Father, for allowing her the opportunity to pour this wisdom out into our lives, by your Holy Spirit.  

Bless her in every area of her life, abundantly.  In Jesus precious and Holy name...AMEN!!!

I love you, sis!


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## Shimmie (Sep 25, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> My Lord and my God! Thank you for this Woman of God that you have placed here on this forum with wisdom and might. Thank you, Father, for allowing her the opportunity to pour this wisdom out into our lives, by your Holy Spirit.
> 
> Bless her in every area of her life, abundantly. In Jesus precious and Holy name...AMEN!!!
> 
> I love you, sis!


And Precious Wavy, I love you 

"Iron Sharpens Iron"....

Precious Wavy,  I pray this very prayer for you, my brother --- your husband who looks unto you to sharpen the sword of the Spirit which he bears so courageously and against a world so full of sin and destruction. 

And for every woman who bears the FULL armor of God and looks not back, neither hesitates to answer when called.

The word of God says, "Deep Calls Unto Deep".   We women are the vessels who carry the Word deep within our bellies.  We out number those in Church attendence; we out number those who 'hear' the cries of hunger, be it hunger for food, thirst, or God's love.    

We have a bottomless chamber that continues to 'draw' waters which are needed to quench the thirst and the void of this world, filled with so many whom are lost and without God.    

Was Proverbs 31 written in vain?  Of whom does it speak?  Of a man's virtue or that of a woman called Virtuous?   

Women are indeed called to lead.  Not in oppostion to the head which is her husband, for it is he who rises up and calls her blessed.  He rises up....embrace those words about husbands....'He rises up';  the man rises UP to the woman who carries the word and leads him in Virtue.  She does  ... She does.  

I can't help but wonder how many marriages have been saved by women who would not give up her 'Lead' in Worship, Prayer, and Consecration unto the Lord.  

How many Pastors have been shielded from falling into the pits of sin, lust and self-destruction, were it not for the woman/women who took heed to lead. 

How many children have been saved from the Pied Piper of destructive paths, had it not been for the woman who took heed to lead. 

How many Samuels have been birthed and nutured into this earth,  For it was Hannah, not her husband who took the lead in earnest, ferverent prayer, to conceive a son whom was dedicated unto the Lord.

Had a woman lead, would the sons of Eli have sinned so profusely upon the Temple steps of God?  Their father Eli, a man failed to stop them.

Does not Proverbs instruct the son, to take heed to his mother's words? 

Women were designed and created to lead.  Above men? Nno ...beside them?  Yes , and when no other call is answered, she stands as the Shepperd whom God has called to take the stand, abandoned by man. 

Iron Sharpens Iron.  There's none sharper than a woman whose lead is to sharpen that of men.


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 25, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> And Precious Wavy, I love you
> 
> "Iron Sharpens Iron"....
> 
> ...


 
Thank you sis...and I love you too.  

Thank you for encouraging me in this. Sometimes things can become quite disturbing to the soul...but, God blesses me with you and your words of love and of peace.  You truly are a blessing in my life.

Thank you...I mean that, from the bottom of my heart


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 25, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Thank you sis...and I love you too.
> 
> Thank you for encouraging me in this. Sometimes things can become quite disturbing to the soul...but, God blesses me with you and your words of love and of peace. You truly are a blessing in my life.
> 
> Thank you...I mean that, from the bottom of my heart


   

On the Natural Level of this topic.  Who was the one who pulled the 'switch' from the hedges and wore my little legs up when I was disobedient?    Ummmmmmm, My Mama and my Grand mama     And their very words were, "I'm fnna beat the devil out of you."   

Oh Lawd... "fnna', finna, finna.... She tore my legs up.  Women don't play when it comes to devils.


----------



## Caramela (Sep 25, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I thank God everyday that He uses those of *us* who *listen to His voice, and the voice of a stranger they do not follow*. Keep preaching, Women of God!!
> 
> I thank God that He uses me to lead people to Jesus, and that He allows me the strength to get up at 3am when someone is in the hospital and when some wife is abused and need help, or the teen that calls me when they need help because of drug addiction or pregnancy or when a parent needs a shoulder to cry on and someone to talk to because the children are stressing him/her out or allows me to pray that God's will be done in the life of a person who is thinking about suicide, and that He gives me His power to lay hands on the sick and see them recover.....oh, yes....I thank Him for this!  I also thank Him for those who come to the altar to give their lives to Christ, after I have given the Word of God...Oh, yes....He is wonderful indeed!  Why just the other week, 30 people gave their lives to Jesus, after I preached the Word!  Isn't that wonderful?
> 
> ...



Those are wonderful things God has allowed you to do. Praise God for that. But a woman could still do wonderful things for Christ without also being disobedient to his word by preaching and assuming leadership. It is against the natural order God has set into place. However, we all have our own free will and eyes to read and a mind to understand the word of the bible. And it's such a blessed thing that there is no private interpretation of the bible. It says what it says. And nowhere does it say that women should be in the position of elder, deacon, or bishop. I am happy that I serve a merciful God. 
Best wishes to you in your walk and your unadultered obedience to the scriptures.


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 25, 2008)

Caramela said:


> Those are wonderful things God has allowed you to do. Praise God for that. But a woman could still do wonderful things for Christ without also being disobedient to his word by preaching and assuming leadership.
> 
> *It is against the natural order God has set into place.*
> 
> ...


But when Male Men do not follow, God Does raise up a woman in his stead.    It's not a woman 'assuming' leadership, she's been placed there where no man could be found.  

When Paul (the Apostle) spoke these things, men were there in multitudes, yet where are they now?    We need to count God's undying mercy for calling a woman to fill the void which has been abandoned by so many men.    This is scriptual.  

Granted there are SOME women 'assuming' the postion, yet there are as many men doing the same...in full assumption.  

God calls and appoints whom He will, be it male or female.  We have to tear down the blinders and allow God to show us whom He has called and not whom we assume is assuming.   

Don't let satan rob you of this...God may be calling 'you' and the very thing hindering your yield to Him is the traditions of men.  

Remember it's still God whom we answer to when called; He's watching over His word to perform it; not ours. 

Traditions stifle, strangle, and choke the very word of God from being brought forth.   God is searching for those who will hear Him and answer, "Yes Lord, here am I ... use me." 

Love and blessings to you.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Sep 25, 2008)

Caramela said:


> Those are wonderful things God has allowed you to do. Praise God for that. But a woman could still do wonderful things for Christ without also *being disobedient to his word by preaching and assuming leadership.* It is against the natural order God has set into place. However, we all have our own free will and eyes to read and a mind to understand the word of the bible. And it's such a blessed thing that there is no private interpretation of the bible. It says what it says. And nowhere does it say that women should be in the position of elder, deacon, or bishop. I am happy that I serve a merciful God.
> Best wishes to you in your walk and your unadultered obedience to the scriptures.


 
Wow... I know that the Bible says that you will know a man (and in this case a woman) by their fruiterplexed

I'm going to say it again and then I'm going to leave this thread because I don't get into silly arguments. 

*"....walk a mile in my shoes and see how far The Father takes you!"*

* 


*


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Sep 25, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> But when Male Men do not follow, God Does raise up a woman in his stead. It's not a woman 'assuming' leadership, she's been placed there where no man could be found.
> 
> When Paul (the Apostle) spoke these things, men were there in multitudes, yet where are they now? We need to count God's undying mercy for calling a woman to fill the void which has been abandoned by so many men. This is scriptual.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you sis for your post.  I appreciate you very much.

Blessings....always.


----------



## Caramela (Sep 25, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> But when Male Men do not follow, God Does raise up a woman in his stead.    It's not a woman 'assuming' leadership, she's been placed there where no man could be found.
> 
> When Paul (the Apostle) spoke these things, men were there in multitudes, yet where are they now?    We need to count God's undying mercy for calling a woman to fill the void which has been abandoned by so many men.    This is scriptual.
> 
> ...



Women in the pulpit is a tradition of man, not of the bible. So I won't be in any danger of Satan robbing me of anything. Thank the Lord!


----------



## Caramela (Sep 25, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Wow... I know that the Bible says that you will know a man (and in this case a woman) by their fruiterplexed
> 
> I'm going to say it again and then I'm going to leave this thread because I don't get into silly arguments.
> 
> ...



The bible and the things taught there in are far from silly. Maybe a little less walking, and a little more studying the scriptures is in order. 
But the bible does warn against itching ears....some people just hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe regardless of what the scriptures say. The only thing "silly" is when a person can read the scriptures for themselves, and directly dispute it and justify their own actions.


----------



## tmichelle (Sep 25, 2008)

Caramela, 

pm me if you'd like to discuss the role of women further.  I think it is very pertinent in our post-modern age.  It can't be glossed over.  I've had some very good dialogue in pm world during this thread and would love to hear and share with you.


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 25, 2008)

J_esus Wept ........_..


----------



## Britt (Sep 26, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I thank God everyday that He uses those of *us* who *listen to His voice, and the voice of a stranger they do not follow*. Keep preaching, Women of God!!
> 
> I thank God that He uses me to lead people to Jesus, and that He allows me the strength to get up at 3am when someone is in the hospital and when some wife is abused and need help, or the teen that calls me when they need help because of drug addiction or pregnancy or when a parent needs a shoulder to cry on and someone to talk to because the children are stressing him/her out or allows me to pray that God's will be done in the life of a person who is thinking about suicide, and that He gives me His power to lay hands on the sick and see them recover.....oh, yes....I thank Him for this! I also thank Him for those who come to the altar to give their lives to Christ, after I have given the Word of God...Oh, yes....He is wonderful indeed! Why just the other week, 30 people gave their lives to Jesus, after I preached the Word! Isn't that wonderful?
> 
> ...


 
 :notworthy


----------



## LunadeMiel (Sep 26, 2008)

Nevermind....

God Bless....!


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 26, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> In Christ we are definitely one.  Does this mean that we are all called to the same roles?  *
> 
> If so then I suppose you would have no issue with any distinction?  Including homosexual marriages?*


This bolded statement makes me cry. I can't understand why it was even stated  

It has nothing to do with the topic, nothing.   homosexual marriages do not give honor or glory to God; yet a woman ministering God's word gives FULL glory to Him and to those being ministered to.  

I have to come back to this question.  How many lives have been saved, changed, bowed to the Altar of God, because a woman, moved by the Spirit of God, allowed herself to be used to bring about God's deliverance?

The answer:  Far too many to count; far, far too many.  And far too many, yet waiting.

I thank God for the men AND women who yield to Him each day.  From the streets to the Altar, souls are being rescued each day, because of God's ordain, 'Male and Female' created He, them; created in the very likeness of Him, His 'Express Image', to bear His Holy Spirit as 'One' and so we are, both Male and Female doing the work of God together.


----------



## tmichelle (Sep 26, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> This bolded statement makes me cry. I can't understand why it was even stated
> 
> It has nothing to do with the topic, nothing. homosexual marriages do not give honor or glory to God; yet a woman ministering God's word gives FULL glory to Him and to those being ministered to.
> 
> ...


 
Didn't mean to make you cry.  I'm not getting into it with anyone on this one.  I don't agree with you at all.


----------



## PaperClip (Sep 26, 2008)

Sexism (according to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary) is defined as "prejudice or discrimination based on sex ; _especially_ *:* discrimination against women. 

I am fully persuaded that the Lord Jesus Christ is not a sexist.

FYI:

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur47384.cfm
CNN'S ROLAND MARTIN SAYS 'GIVE LIFEWAY STORES HELL': Pundit not pleased with treatment of Gospel Today Magazine and publisher.

In an article written by CNN’s Roland Martin he says, “The conduct of Lifeway and the Southern Baptist Convention (pulling Gospel Today magazine from shelves because it shows five female pastors on the front cover) is shameful, and they owe (Teresa) Hairston an apology for their actions. Yet she's taken it in stride, saying that instead of giving the company hell, she'll ‘give them heaven.’ I say, give them a lot of hell for this, because they deserve it for actions.” 


     Hairston has published her magazine for 19 years said she has never faced a major situation with Christian bookstores across the country that carries the publication. She's tackled any number of issues over the years, and has featured a number of celebrities and ministers, ranging from Yolanda Adams to Bishop T.D. Jakes to Kirk Franklin.


     Hairston said Lifeway Christian Stores treated her like she had converted her Christian publication to something akin to the tastes of porn purveyor Larry Flynt.


     The owner of Lifeway, the Southern Baptist Convention, wasn't too happy with Hairston telling the story of female pastors, because the women go against their 2000 decree that only men can serve in the role of reverend or pastor. According to Martin’s article Hairston said the “Christian” company didn't even give her the courtesy of a heads-up.


     "We got an anonymous tip," she told Roland Martin on The Tom Joyner Morning Show and after checking it out, she discovered that the magazine had been removed from the shelves in all of Lifeway's 100-plus stores nationwide and had been placed behind the counter.


     Roland talked about how is wife was a longtime Lifeway teacher. 


     “She had taught at the company's teaching centers for years, but then one day, she was notified that she would have to take down her website and comply with their rules against female pastors or be dropped as a teacher. Her crime? Calling herself the Rev. Jacquie Hood Martin,” Martin said.


     Roland’s wife graduated from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary; was the first female staff pastor at Houston's Brookhollow Baptist Church/the Church Without Walls, a Southern Baptist Convention church; and has been leading folks to the Lord all over the country for 20 years. (Source: www.CNN.com / www.articlesofinfro.com)


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## PaperClip (Sep 26, 2008)

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur47385.cfm
*GOSPEL TODAY'S TERESA HAIRSTON SPEAKS HER MIND ABOUT CENSURED MAG: Publisher says she felt shocked and disrespected.*


By Mona Austin

When Teresa Hairston learned from an anonymous e-mail tip that her magazine, Gospel Today, was not being displayed in over 100 stores nationwide she was upset. 


     Customers wanting to purchase the September/October issue had to request it from behind the counter at Lifeway Christian Bookstores as if it was a porno mag.


     There are five attractive women leaders featured on its cover. But, nothing about them resembled Heff's girls.  All were fully dressed in dark attire, faces forward, posed in a cluster among red church pews. It is the first time in the Fayetteville, GA based publication's 19-year history that an issue has been dedicated to  high impact female senior pastors from around the country -- Bishop Millicent Hunter (The Baptist Worship Center in Philadelphia, PA); Pastor Sheryl Brady (The River in Durham, N.C.); Pastor Claudette Copeland of New Creation Christian Fellowship in San Antonio, Texas; Pastor Tamara Bennett (This Is Pentecost Ministries in Sacramento, CA); and Pastor Kimberly Ray (Church on the Rock in Matteson, Ill).  These pastors were being recognized for making progress in the male dominated rank and file structure of religious hierarchy.


     As if committing a cardinal sin, that's all it took to cause the magazines to be yanked from retail racks. The owners of Lifeway, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) believe the role of pastor is reserved for men only.


     If given the opportunity to express her discontent with a company or ministry rep she likely would, but no one from the organization or the bookstore bothered to call to forewarn her that her product would be barred and Hairston says, "That's a disrespectful way of handling business."


     Chris Turner, the Media Relations Manager of Lifeway Christian Resources released a statement saying they made the choice because the cover story "clearly advocated a position contrary to our denomination's statement of faith, the Baptist Faith & Message."


     The SBC is not alone in its fundamentalist interpretation of scripture.  Many denominations maintain the traditional, although now often contested view that women are not to serve in pastoral leadership.


     Central to the controversy is the centuries long practice of religious groups misusing the Bible to discriminate.


     The 42,000 member churches of the SBC are independent and a few 
have selected women to lead their congregations.


     Hairston, who holds a Doctorate in Theology from the Richmond Theological Seminary, sees it as a matter of sexism.

     "It's an insult to women for this story to be suffocated and treated like pornography.  It's insensitive and unjust," she gripped, adding that the goal of the gospel is to set the captives free.


     In what appears to be an isolated occurrence, Turner said he has not been told if the mags will be removed permanently.


     "We also recognize that some customers like to read a variety of views on subjects such as these to stay engaged in the culture.  For that reason, we have continued to make the magazine available upon request to accommodate those needs as best we could," explains Turner.


     With a circulation of over 240,000 Gospel Today is the most widely distributed magazine of its type. Staying current with today's trends it covers an array of relevant subjects from entertainment, to health and finances to appeal to an Urban Christian audience. Past covers have spotlighted comedian Steve Harvey, Bishop Noel Jones, gospel artist Israel Houghton and then co-pastor on Without Walls Church in Florida, Paula White.


     When asked what is her expectation from the entity that denounced her publication Hairston said she does not know what will come of this "humiliating" ordeal, but won't budge on her strong journalistic principles.


     "Beyond my expectation is my resolution to tell the truth as a journalist. I feel it is my responsibility to report on the things that interest my audience.  It would be ridiculous for me not to."


     That's all Gospel Today was doing -- sharing news--Tamara Bennett one of the featured pastors told the Associated Press in a phone interview noting that Hairston did not preach doctrine in the article and "it's a story that needs to be told."


     The entrepreneur understands that reducing Gospel Today's visibility can have definite financial ramifications.  Hairston said these economic times "are nothing to sneeze at" especially for a small minority run business like hers.


     Further, the owner of Gospel Today points out, it is hypocritical for the SBC to have endorsed the Republican ticket where the Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin could potentially lead the country, but they can't entrust a woman to lead a local assembly of believers.


     Turner says Sarah Palin getting an endorsement from the Southern Baptist Convention and the Gospel Today incident are totally unrelated issues.


     "I pray that the Southern Baptist Convention would open its eyes to what God is doing today," laments Hairston.


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 26, 2008)

tmichelle said:


> Didn't mean to make you cry.  I'm not getting into it with anyone on this one.  I don't agree with you at all.


You don't have to agree... 

But as a Christian, you cannot deny that God uses BOTH men and women; He always has and He always will.  In the streets, in the Pulpit, in quiet prayer, God uses both men and women.   

The whole irony of your disagreement is that you're using the Bible to back up a grave mis-conception.  An assumption so mislead.  Jesus clearly said, for us to not hid our 'light' under a bushel, but to let it shine.   

That He is the Vine, the True Vine and that we are the Branches, and that any Branch which does not bear fruit, to cut it off. 

The Bible speaks also to women...

To refrain from adorning or braiding of the hair

How few among us wear any form of hair ornaments; braid our hair? 

Growing our hair long to give God glory?  

Or is it vanity?  It's vanity for all of us. Long hair isn't holiness. It's a desire of beauty, it's vanity.  

Wearing Men's clothing -

Do you wear pants; T-Shirts - Jogging sets - Tennis shoes?   All of these originated as men's clothing and later became unitized for both sexes.

Do you work outside of your home?  In the Bible days, the women stayed home and took care of the home and children (Proverbs 31).  

Do you own or drive a car?  Own or rent a home?  In the Bible only men were known to have/own such.

A woman ministering the word of God is hardly a sin in comparison...


----------



## tmichelle (Sep 26, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> You don't have to agree...
> 
> But as a Christian, you cannot deny that God uses BOTH men and women; He always has and He always will. In the streets, in the Pulpit, in quiet prayer, God uses both men and women.
> 
> ...


 
Truly Shimmie, I will not get into this with you.  Many future blessings.


----------



## momi (Sep 26, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> You don't have to agree...
> 
> But as a Christian, you cannot deny that God uses BOTH men and women; He always has and He always will. In the streets, in the Pulpit, in quiet prayer, God uses both men and women.
> 
> ...


 

_*Shimmie- I believe that you are a precious woman of God and many have been and will be blessed by your words of encouragement in this forum* -_ however I beg to differ with you on this one. 


In order to take this view we have to explain away quite a bit of scripture... It saddens me that whenever I read a "discussion" about this issue the rebuttals to the scripture always seem to include a modern-day example or a comment about how one might feel about a subject. I believe for this to be a fair "discussion" we have to deal with scripture and scripture alone.

By no means am I am theologian - but this I do know we can never use outside sources to interpret scripture - you have to use scripture to interpret scripture. We are not to be ruled nor influenced by the culture, but we as Christians are to BE the influence.

I believe women are able to prophesy, minister, and serve as long as she operates under a Godly covering...


----------



## PaperClip (Sep 26, 2008)

momi said:


> _*Shimmie- I believe that you are a precious woman of God and many have been and will be blessed by your words of encouragement in this forum* -_ however I beg to differ with you on this one.
> 
> 
> In order to take this view we have to explain away quite a bit of scripture... It saddens me that whenever I read a "discussion" about this issue the rebuttals to the scripture always seem to include a modern-day example or a comment about how one might feel about a subject. I believe for this to be a fair "discussion" we have to deal with scripture and scripture alone.
> ...


 
And the bolded is KEY: along with the bolded, a woman can serve/function as a pastor (which, according to the Bible, is NOT specified re. gender, compared to that to the office of a bishop which specifically says "if a man"). 

A woman can serve as a pastor AS SHE IS SUBMITTED TO A MALE COVERING... meaning that that man (could be her husband and/or a male spiritual authority) under the obedience of the Lord Jesus Christ to serve as her covering/authority.

That GODLY covering can come under that MALE leadership, e.g., her husband and/or male spiritual authority.


----------



## Nice & Wavy (Sep 27, 2008)

momi said:


> _*Shimmie- I believe that you are a precious woman of God and many have been and will be blessed by your words of encouragement in this forum* -_ however I beg to differ with you on this one.
> 
> 
> In order to take this view we have to explain away quite a bit of scripture... It saddens me that whenever I read a "discussion" about this issue the rebuttals to the scripture always seem to include a modern-day example or a comment about how one might feel about a subject. I believe for this to be a fair "discussion" we have to deal with scripture and scripture alone.
> ...


 
Hey sis,

You have to allow the Holy Spirit to help you interpret scripture.  He is our teacher and will teach us all things that we need for life and Godliness.

There are many people that read the bible and get their "own understanding" from it, but when led by the Holy Spirit, He will reveal it as the Father intended and we shall know in part, and when that person/persons open their mouths...you will see the difference because they are then "Empowered" to do the work of the ministry, and preaching is one part of that ministry.

Women are empowered by God when they allow God to use them for His glory.  He is God, He can do whatever He desires.  If God has called women to shepherd a flock, just like a man, she can't do it alone...no pastor can, and that would be what He desires and no man can stop it.  The man may be the head, but she is the neck and without the neck, that head wouldn't function properly.  You may be the arm, and Shimmie the leg and FoxyScholar the ankle...it all intertwines together so that the Body of Christ functions the way the Father intended.

I just wanted to share what was on my heart.

Thanks for listening with a heart of love.

Blessings to you...always.


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 27, 2008)

momi said:


> _*Shimmie- I believe that you are a precious woman of God and many have been and will be blessed by your words of encouragement in this forum* -_ however I beg to differ with you on this one.
> 
> In order to take this view we have to explain away quite a bit of scripture... It saddens me that whenever I read a "discussion" about this issue the rebuttals to the scripture always seem to include a modern-day example or a comment about how one might feel about a subject. I believe for this to be a fair "discussion" we have to deal with scripture and scripture alone.
> 
> ...


Now here's my  question.  What outside sources have I used?  Nothing I've shared is outside of God's word.  Nothing   Neither jot nor tittle, has been altered. 

If you or others don't accept that God is and will continue to use women to minister His word, that's your choice and I respect that.  

But it's not going to change that God IS indeed continuing to raise women up to minister His word.  And I can guaranteed you that before you leave this earth and go home to be with the Lord, a woman will be used in your life by God, to minister life, health and His word to you.  It's just the way it is. 

Frankly, I don't see what the problem is.  I truly don't. This reminds me of the Blind man who wasted so many years waiting for someone to 'trouble the waters' in order to regain his sight. Time and again, Jesus, admonished the Scribes and the Pharisees to 'accept' the order of 'change' or simply put, follow the move of the Holy Spirit.   

I'm going to put this out there and I fear no one but God and believe solely that I am giving Him honor in so doing.

There are far too many demons out here which need to be put under subjection.   Who prevails in the Church as the majority?   WOMEN!  Who prevails and labors in intercessory prayer, fasting, and ready with the word of God at any given moment?  WOMEN!   Who upholds the man of God whom God places upon the Altar?   WOMEN!   In Spiritual measure, who is more susceptable to the Holy Spirit, yielded to prayer and discerning of spirits.  ... Women!     Who is God raising up more and more in this day and time... Women!   

The Bible warns us against falling suspect unto every wind and doctrine and being caught up in bondage to the traditions of men.   While we're disagreeing on this subject, satan is out 'seeking' whom he may devour NEXT!  

Now I DO disagree when women overrule men in spiritual authority.  Order is order, but where there is no man, the woman needs to answer the call of God upon her life and move with the flow of the Holy Spirit; no Jonah syndrome.  People are dying and where a man has not answered the call, God puts a woman there in the man's stead to fulfill His good work. 

I'm not speaking outside sources or rhetoric, it's the truth that we have to face up to.  Nothing has changed in the Bible, yet the demons are many and we are in need of Godly Called Leadership be it male or female to render these demons powerless in this earth realm.

The way side has become death valley; we're losing our young men, young girls to sins we never heard of and it's only growing worse.  Marriages are failing far too many IN THE CHURCH, where it used to be outside of the Church, now it's filtered in as far as the Altar.  Why in God's name is there AIDs in the Church?  Why?  Why are there Drugs, Men and Women hooked on pornography???  Why???  Why???  Why is there homosexuality in the Church?   Baby Mama and Baby Daddy in the CHURCH?   Miss Management of Funds (Robbing the Sheep via Tithes/Offerings not used as intended).  Why is that in the Church?  

Since when are we victims of being robbed via gunpoint; Pastors / Members being shot IN CHURCH during service??? WHY IS THAT?

Too many devils have been released against us... the Church and because we're wasting time disagreeing over silliness and traditions, satan has been having a hay day.   

NO ONE ---- NO ONE ---- NOT ONE PERSON here or anywhere else is following the Bible from A to Z.   It's lying if anyone says otherwise!!!  It's a fact of LIFE!  We all --- ALL of us live according to what we believe and conceive the Bible.    

Every word I've posted as an example in my prior post, which you have objected to is still scriptural; they apply to all of our lives in one way or another.  We ALL have a 'law' that we cling to and yet close our eyes to another. which means everyone in this thread shares both accurate and inaccurate points.  All of us!   

And by Grace and Love,  God is Still l moving by His Spirit looking, searching for whosoever will, is yielded to His Call, be it Male or Female.


----------



## Shimmie (Sep 27, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> Hey sis,
> 
> You have to allow the Holy Spirit to help you interpret scripture.  He is our teacher and will teach us all things that we need for life and Godliness.
> 
> ...


Precious Wavy, 

You are a prime example of a woman with the 'Call of God' on her life. 

So many times God has used you in my life Personally to avert the enemy.

On this past Mother's Day, it was you who called me and ministered love and healing and you had no clue -- other than by the Spirit-- of God, that my body was in so much pain that I was unable to move.   I remember that morning when I cried out to God, I needed someone that I trusted to pray for me and I spoke your name in prayer, and you 'caught' it, by the Spirit of God and called me.  My prayers were answered and my body was healed. 

God is Good!

My baby girl's car accident.  You were 'there' for me every moment of every day and you knew what to pray. satan was trying to 'break me down' and I couldn't afford to lose my strength.   

My baby's car over turned 3 times --- THREE TIMES in Mid Afternoon traffic; bounced onto the meridian and onto the other side into oncoming traffic, and yet she escaped _*without *_injury.  

PRAISE GOD!!!!!!!!!  My baby wasn't harmed.   And to this very day, the doctors and the policemen are baffled and cannot understand how she escaped with just a few scratches.   My baby was surrounded in loving prayer and in God's word.  

I've attached the pictures of her car.  

Precious Wavy, God used you to hold me together; to keep me from falling apart, because I couldn't get to her.  The Word of God came forth from you so strong that it wouldn't allow me to fall apart; as I couldn't afford to.   

I won't put all of the details into this post, you know them.  But my point is that without your gifts as a loving Pastor, a Holy Vessel unto the Lord, God's  Handmaiden, I would not have stood upon the Word which I have known for decades.  You were in tune to the Holy Spirit and therefore in
tune to me and the needed Word for that time.

It's too late for anyone to say that God does not call  Women.  He does.  I've lived it and I always will.  

I love you, sis.  I always will. God's Handmaiden, You are.  You are a true woman of God who is sensitive to his Heart and Voice and senstitive the the Heart, the Ministry and the Soul of your Husband, your Pastor. :heart2:


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## Aviah (Sep 28, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Ruth, Esther, Deborah,
> 
> ALL of US here, carrying the word and we 'teach' , 'preach', 'pray', lead, set free, people around us each and everyday.
> 
> ...


So true, especially the bolded.... so true


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 28, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Precious Wavy,
> 
> You are a prime example of a woman with the 'Call of God' on her life.
> 
> ...


 
My sweet sister....I can't even type right now but, I will come back to this post...I promise.  I'm getting ready to go to my granddaughter's birthday party and will be back later on.

Thank you, sis...I love you......


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## BeaLady (Sep 28, 2008)

Ladie,

I must apologize for this post.  I don't post often in the Christian forum for reasons such as this.  It was not my intention to cause this type of dissension.  My Pastor says that we can argue about tongues, we can argue about sprinkling or immersion but one thing we can't argue about is the fact that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior who bled and died for us and is coming back to all who've accepted him as Lord and Savior.

I made a post eariler in thread that seemed to have been overlooked.  I sighted other material being sold at that bookstore by other female ministers and someone who broke with the denomination.

I saw a double standard and I question the reason given.

Again ladies, I apologize for posting this topic.


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## Aviah (Sep 28, 2008)

BeaLady said:


> Ladie,
> 
> I must apologize for this post.  I don't post often in the Christian forum for reasons such as this.  It was not my intention to cause this type of dissension.  My Pastor says that we can argue about tongues, we can argue about sprinkling or immersion but one thing we can't argue about is the fact that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior who bled and died for us and is coming back to all who've accepted him as Lord and Savior.
> 
> ...



Personally I think its a fair topic to discuss, and really there's no telling how things will turn out. I hope you got the information you sought. Don't be sorry!!


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## Shimmie (Sep 28, 2008)

BeaLady said:


> Ladie,
> 
> I must apologize for this post.  I don't post often in the Christian forum for reasons such as this.  It was not my intention to cause this type of dissension.  My Pastor says that we can argue about tongues, we can argue about sprinkling or immersion but one thing we can't argue about is the fact that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior who bled and died for us and is coming back to all who've accepted him as Lord and Savior.
> 
> ...



 Precious BeaLady, you've done nothing wrong.   I thank God for you and for everyone who has posted in this thread.

I've learned something valuable.  You see, I've been under the teaching and preaching, ministering of both men and women for as long as I can remember.   I've had two Pastors in my lifetime and both of them, are wonderful and powerful men of God and their wives minister right beside them.   

At the moment I can't think of too many Churches where the wife doesn't minister and I know of more than a few.   And by each of them, we've always respected the man as the head and supported him as such.  Yet, we respect the women who were also in leadership by themselves.  I don't question or judge them,  I simply flow with the Spirit of God. 

One thing is certain, God is still who He is and changes not. He's out to fulfill His purpose and uses whosoever will.  

In today's life, there is too much happening in people's lives.  There are things in men's lives that only a male should minister to and likewise, there are things in a woman's life that only a woman should speak about and minister to.   Therefore, there is a necessity for Both men and women in ministry. God's word speaks of this.

I wish nothing but the very best for all in this forum.  Whether we agree or disagree, I wish only God's best and I mean it with all of my heart.


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## Shimmie (Sep 28, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> My sweet sister....I can't even type right now but, I will come back to this post...I promise.  I'm getting ready to go to my granddaughter's birthday party and will be back later on.
> 
> Thank you, sis...I love you......



I wasn't going to make that post above, but in so doing, God gets the Glory; for truly He does have a 'Call' upon you as a minister and it is in His order alongside your husband.

It's not everyday that one can have a sister, friend and a powerful minister all wrapped up in one beautiful gift.   There's no 'cyber' union, but a God filled union that makes and keeps us one in the Spirit no matter the distance upon this earth.   Gods' handmaiden -- My sister true --- Precious You. 

With all of my heart.... :heart2:


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## Mortons (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for posting it BeaLady  This topic was very interesting and very telling. I needed to read this to understand a few things.


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 29, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> Precious Wavy,
> 
> You are a prime example of a woman with the 'Call of God' on her life.
> 
> ...


 
You know sis, after reading this yesterday and knowing that I didn't have time to post because I was leaving the house, I had so much time to think about what you said and the impact that it had on me.

I'm so grateful to the Father, Our Father, who so graciously gives us His gifts, especially the gift of discernment.  I'm so grateful that He united us together, that we would be able to minister to one another during our weakest times and even in helpless times.  Sometimes we can get so busy with so many things that we miss it...I know I do.  Sometimes my weeks are so far spent, that I fall out in exhaustion, only to get up the next day and continue on doing what I need to do in the Kingdom.  When you have been called to do something, you do it with all your might and all you strength, that the Father will be pleased.  I do so want to hear, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant!"

I'm really and truly blessed that I am able to be here for you.  I KNOW you are for me....at anytime and I'm grateful and humbly say...."thank you."

I pray that all of us sisters here on the forum can have the same relationship that we have.  Although I've never met you in person, just talking and praying with you over the phone has helped me realize that when two people are together in spirit, God Our Father, can do wonders!

I love you, Shimmie...and I'm so blessed to call you not only my sister, but FRIEND!

Blessings to you always!

N&W


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 29, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> I wasn't going to make that post above, but in so doing, God gets the Glory; for truly He does have a 'Call' upon you as a minister and it is in His order alongside your husband.
> 
> It's not everyday that one can have a sister, friend and a powerful minister all wrapped up in one beautiful gift. There's no 'cyber' union, but a God filled union that makes and keeps us one in the Spirit no matter the distance upon this earth. Gods' handmaiden -- My sister true --- Precious You.
> 
> With all of my heart.... :heart2:


 
Thank you, sis...for God has truly given you the words to say that help bring healing to the soul!

What a wonderful christian you are!

I love you, girl!


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## Shimmie (Sep 29, 2008)

Nice & Wavy said:


> You know sis, after reading this yesterday and knowing that I didn't have time to post because I was leaving the house, I had so much time to think about what you said and the impact that it had on me.
> 
> I'm so grateful to the Father, Our Father, who so graciously gives us His gifts, especially the gift of discernment. I'm so grateful that He united us together, that we would be able to minister to one another during our weakest times and even in helpless times. Sometimes we can get so busy with so many things that we miss it...I know I do. Sometimes my weeks are so far spent, that I fall out in exhaustion, only to get up the next day and continue on doing what I need to do in the Kingdom. When you have been called to do something, you do it with all your might and all you strength, that the Father will be pleased. I do so want to hear, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant!"
> 
> ...


 


Nice & Wavy said:


> Thank you, sis...for God has truly given you the words to say that help bring healing to the soul!
> 
> What a wonderful christian you are!
> 
> I love you, girl!


 
I love you too, Precious Wavy   I can never thank God enough for you...Never.  

The power of God is flowing.  God is raising up a standard against the enemy.  His grace does much more abound in this earth for He is using every yielded vessel and you truly are among them.  You are truly His handmaiden. 

This is how I feel when I think of how God has used you in my life...

1 *I LOVE THE LORD*, because *he hath heard my voice and my supplications. 
2 Because he hath inclined his ear unto me, therefore will I call upon him as long as I live. 
3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow. 
4 Then called I upon the name of the LORD; O LORD, I beseech thee, deliver my soul. 
5 Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful. 
6 The LORD preserveth the simple: I was brought low, and he helped me. 
7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. 
*8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. 
9 I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living. 
10 I believed, therefore have I spoken: I was greatly afflicted: 
11 I said in my haste, All men are liars. 
12 What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me? 
13 I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD. 
14 I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people. 
15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. 
16 O LORD, truly I am thy servant; I am thy servant, and the son of thine handmaid: thou hast loosed my bonds. 
17 I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD. 
18 I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people. 
19 In the courts of the LORD's house, in the midst of thee, O Jerusalem. Praise ye the LORD.   (Psalm 116)

Precious Wavy, this whole Psalm just says it all.  Praise Jesus!  Nobody but God.   Oh But God!   Of whom shall I call upon.   Nobody but God.  Who always answers our cry.  Always.   

For 'He regarded the low estate of His handmaiden' and all generations shall call me blessed.   (Luke 1).  :heart2:

We as women are all God's handmaidens, and we seek to yield when he calls.


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## Nice & Wavy (Sep 29, 2008)

Shimmie said:


> I love you too, Precious Wavy  I can never thank God enough for you...Never.
> 
> The power of God is flowing. God is raising up a standard against the enemy. His grace does much more abound in this earth for He is using every yielded vessel and you truly are among them. You are truly His handmaiden.
> 
> ...


 

I am humbled......truly humbled...

Thank you, sis...thank you!


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## MrsQueeny (Sep 29, 2008)

HeatSeeker said:


> Thanks for posting it BeaLady  *This topic was very interesting* and very telling. I needed to read this to understand a few things.



I agree. It confirmed a lot of things for me too.  I know I am on the right track!!!  Q


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