# To Be Content Alone



## kayte (Jan 31, 2009)

*A Marriage Prayer for Singles*

_Father, I'm praying for (name one or more) and others in my circle of family and friends who are single..._

Help them delight in You, for You have said when we do, You'll give us the desires of our heart. May their desires match Your desires, Your will and plan for their lives; then fulfill Your purpose for them. (Psalm 37:4; 57:2; 138:8)

As they wait, help them to keep Your ways, discerning what is best, keeping pure and blameless in Your sight. (Psalm 27:14; 37:34; Philippians 1:10)

I ask Your special touch on those who are single parents, because managing a home without a spouse can be difficult. May they put their hope in You, continuing night and day in prayer. May others in the body of Christ respond to their needs as they would want to be helped if they were alone. (1 Timothy 5:5; Matthew 7:12)

May they be fulfilled in Christ. In Jesus' name, amen.
- Jim & Kaye Johns


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## kayte (Jan 31, 2009)

I had to post this! Two issues came up..big time

This came in today... ironically as today I joined the wondeful new forum belle's posted for us in the marriage prayer circle

#1
]It seems to me ...in my spiritual ..life just as I make a decision to do something 
powerfully pro-active..
(I even dreamt of two hearts in emerald jeweled green entertwining into one big heart) 

after  I posted about my sister's miracles
ironically ...now...she's mad at me today
about something else...lol

in other words ....
_I will get a message that sometimes completely contradicts a powerful action
or decision I have prayerfully made 
I am open to hearing God in all ways ...
Does this happen to you....what do you do?_


... issue #2
BIG FYI!
This prayer originated from co-authored by a *MARRIED COUPLE*
I do not understand prayers like this
I hate to use the word hypocritical....but  ;(

Also I dont intend to keep the prayer up 
after it's discussed I am going to edit to replace it with a postive
godly word of encouraging prayer..probably Shimmie's 
and edit the title too!!!  

I am heartened there is more and more of a proactive movement to expose 
questionable ideals as this a disservice to godly people wishing partnership
and disservice to our God who said Himself 

_And God blessed them and said Be fruitful and mutiply  _


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm confused. The prayer in the first post seems to be from a couple praying for those who are struggling with being single. It seems like a great prayer to me. Why does it need to be edited? Are you takling about the two points in post number 2 maybe?


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## kayte (Jan 31, 2009)

> I'm confused. The prayer in the first post seems to be from a couple praying for those who are struggling with being single. It seems like a great prayer to me. *Why does it need to be edited?* Are you takling about the two points in post number 2 maybe?



I'm troubled with the prayer because although I agree to it does target singles who are struggling with the issue....the main message I get from the content was that singles ought to be content being alone...
TO BE CONTENT TO BE ALONE  _that is the title of the prayer_
....and as it's from a Christian married couple....
who clearly _were not content to be alone _and yet are advising other 
singles to do so...I think that's duplicitous...it feels like a negative message rather than positive
although the second paragraph is a bit better

a God-inpsired desire to partner and procreate
is not the message they give to singles who want to pray for this

I think Shimmie's marriage prayer is a beautiful example
and response to singles rather than the posted prayer from the Johns~  

and I do wonder about the issue of taking a strong powerful stance 
spiritually only to receive a bibilcal messge that counters 
this  at times


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

I understand where you're coming from but it's not negative, it's true. A single has to be content being alone (not lonely) before the Lord will move them to the next state. If singles can't be content in the state that they are in the Lord can't use them to their fullest potential because they are distracted by getting married which I notice alot with the sisters in Christian forum. 

Singles need to stop seeking to be married and let the Lord send someone their way when *HE* feels they are ready to handle it. Who can *FIND* a virtuous woman. We are to be sought not the other way around. Otherwise there will be fornicating and folks marrying the first thing that says Lord, Lord that comes their way. Then once they are married they *WILL* long for their single state again and seek to regain it. 

The divorce rate among Christians is alarmingly high BECAUSE of our preoccupation with leaving the single state. I see more prayers for future DH's(which is not a promise of the Lord by the way) than prayers to be holy women of God and witnesses of Christ in the earth. Something is very wrong with our priorities.

The duty of a single woman is to care for the things of the Lord. It is not a step that can be skipped just because we are praying for or currently have boyfriends. If it is not obeyed without distraction of seeking a mate, He will not progress them to marriage. He changeth not. We can marry whomever we please whenever we please and usually do but God will not bless our mess.


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I understand where you're coming from but it's not negative, it's true. A single has to be content being alone (not lonely) before the Lord will move them to the next state. If singles can't be content in the state that they are in the Lord can't use them to their fullest potential because they are distracted by getting married which I notice alot with the sisters in Christian forum.
> 
> Singles need to stop seeking to be married and let the Lord send someone their way when *HE* feels they are ready to handle it. Who can *FIND* a virtuous woman. We are to be sought not the other way around. Otherwise there will be fornicating and folks marrying the first thing that says Lord, Lord that comes their way. Then once they are married they *WILL* long for their single state again and seek to regain it.
> 
> ...



Y'all know I love discussing this topic.  

I have to agree with Kayte though... I don't think the prayer is meant in a negative way at all, but I am one of those who believes that a main reason for many people's current state of singleness is NOT because it's God's will, but because we as a society are unfortunately suffering from the poor choices of those before us. Once we as a people (specifically the black community) began denigrating marriage and began normalizing out-of-wedlock parenting, not "needing" fathers in the home, etc., then those things trickled down to our generation.

So young Christian women who probably would have easily been married a generation or two ago are now remaining single for longer than necessary because men are choosing to "take their time" and play the field instead of behaving maturely and marrying and starting families. There is no encouragement -- in fact, there's discouragement many times -- by people's parents and family to focus on marriage over "having fun" and "enjoying the single life," which makes it even more difficult for marriages to occur. 

I do not see how God is being glorified by high rates of singleness among black women today. I do not see how it is God's will for a large number of women to become barren because they waited for years to marry before having children (as they should have), but because they had to wait for so long, they were not able to bear children. 

I absolutely encourage single women who desire to marry to pray for that God-given desire, in addition to praying to become holy women of God and witnesses for Christ. The two are not mutually exclusive.

And finally, I think there is a major danger in this statement... *If it is not obeyed without distraction of seeking a mate, He will not progress them to marriage.*  This, to me, assumes that one is supposed to reach some set state of spiritual growth BEFORE he/she can be married and if he/she does not reach this point, he/she will remain single. God does not say this. God does not put a "spiritual readiness" qualification on marriage, but I find it interesting that this concept has become more popular in conjunction with the rising rate of singleness. Perhaps folks know something is dreadfully wrong and are trying to find some kind of spiritually correct explanation for it, even though it's not necessarily Biblical? 

So, while a single woman should not live in pain and depression over her single status, it is absolutely normal for her to desire marriage for her life. It wasn't until this last generation that we've started putting all of these "qualifications" on it.


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

It is the word of God and it is biblical. Single women are to care for the things of the Lord 1 Cor.7:32. It's not a suggestion. If you can not be happy and content in your single state you WILL NOT be happy and content for long once you marry. The Christian divorce rate is a warning of that.

We are Christians. We are not subject to the things of this world but to the word of God unless we choose to follow the world's way of having a relationship which many still cling too (boyfriends, SO, my boo etc.). What effects the marriage stats of other black women does not dictate the reasons Christian women aren't married. Only in part. 

If one has been praying for years and the Lord still has not sent that blessing their way......... then it is time to ask the Lord why. Instead of continuing to pray the same fruitless prayer a heart to heart needs to be established between the unmarried and the Lord. 

Sometimes, MOST times it *IS* them. Black women get married everyday why not them. Black Christian women get married everyday why not them. Unless the Lord has them on a specific assignment where marriage would not be convenient at this time what else could it possibly be? It is something about their walk and relationship with Him. 

Some of the sisters in my singles bootcamp have come to a breakthrough on their singleness and accepted the truth of why they are still single, made Jesus their main focus (caring for the things of the Lord) not marriage and are now fellowshipping with suitable potential mates. Some have even rejected men the world said was a good catch because they were open to the Lord when He rejected them and ended it immediately. It didn't take years for the Lord to send holy, godly men their way, this happened within weeks of them changing their ways and they no longer were a hinderance to the plan of God for their lives. The Lord's hands were untied from him being able to set godly men their paths.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jan 31, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> It is the word of God and it is biblical. Single women are to care for the things of the Lord 1 Cor.7:32. It's not a suggestion. If you can not be happy and content in your single state you WILL NOT be happy and content for long once you marry. The Christian divorce rate is a warning of that.
> 
> We are Christians. We are not subject to the things of this world but to the word of God unless we choose to follow the world's way of having a relationship which many still cling too (boyfriends, SO, my boo etc.). What effects the marriage stats of other black women does not dictate the reasons Christian women aren't married. Only in part.
> 
> ...



I agree wholeheartedly with the bold.  As a single woman myself, I use to have such an intense urge to marry that it led me into some ungodly relationships with men in hopes that someone would marry me(because they promised they would right. . .)  Since I've been single, I've learned so much about what my relationship with God is, is not, and should be.


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> It is the word of God and it is biblical. Single women are to care for the things of the Lord 1 Cor.7:32. It's not a suggestion. If you can not be happy and content in your single state you WILL NOT be happy and content for long once you marry. The Christian divorce rate is a warning of that.



1 Corinthians 7 is Paul's opinion on marriage and singleness. It can be interpreted many ways, but he is also speaking to a group of people who were dealing with famine in their lands and situations that made it unwise for them to marry at a certain time. Yes, Paul was divinely inspired, but he was giving his recommendations... God is the one who also said it was not good for man to be alone and commanded us to be fruitful and multiply. 



> We are Christians. We are not subject to the things of this world but to the word of God unless we choose to follow the world's way of having a relationship which many still cling too (boyfriends, SO, my boo etc.). What effects the marriage stats of other black women does not dictate the reasons Christian women aren't married. Only in part.



All the more reason to pray for a Godly marriage, and not a worldly relationship! If that means being single for a while, then that is fine, but there is nothing wrong with praying for a Godly marriage and then showing one's faith and belief in that through her actions. 



> If one has been praying for years and the Lord still has not sent that blessing their way......... then it is time to ask the Lord why. Instead of continuing to pray the same fruitless prayer a heart to heart needs to be established between the unmarried and the Lord.


Would one suggest that to someone who is sick, mentally ill, praying for a family member caught up in sin, etc.? Or would we keep praying faithfully in the belief that God can do all things, including provide husbands and wives for His children to carry out His will? Who said the prayer is fruitless just because it has not been answered... YET? My parents have also joined this prayer circle in recent months, which is something they have not done before, but having been married for close to 40 years, I believe they can see the blessings of a Godly marriage and want the same for their children. 



> Sometimes, MOST times it *IS* them. Black women get married everyday why not them. Black Christian women get married everyday why not them. Unless the Lord has them on a specific assignment where marriage would not be convenient at this time what else could it possibly be? It is something about their walk and relationship with Him.
> 
> Some of the sisters in my singles bootcamp have come to a breakthrough on their singleness and accepted the truth of why they are still single, made Jesus their main focus (caring for the things of the Lord) not marriage and are now fellowshipping with suitable potential mates. Some have even rejected men the world said was a good catch because they were open to the Lord when He rejected them and ended it immediately. It didn't take years for the Lord to send holy, godly men their way, this happened within weeks of them changing their ways and they no longer were a hinderance to the plan of God for their lives. The Lord's hands were untied from him being able to set godly men their paths.



Why are 70% of black women currently single then? More black women are NOT getting married than are... I am not saying that one should pray for marriage and then go about doing the same ole' same ole' worldly things (if she was doing them in the first place -- we don't know that) and hope for a different result. Part of the prayers for marriage are that we do so the right way, and not get caught up in the worldly ways of looking for "good catches." I can say that since I've been praying for marriage, I have seen changes in my decision making as well, and I am closer to having a Godly marriage today before I was when I was not praying for God's help and guidance in this matter. 

Not everyone has the same story, and not every woman who is single is that way because there is something that SHE is doing wrong and that SHE alone is the one outside of God's will. I am also aware of women who started prayer circles for marriage and worked within their churches to promote marriage for single women and their marriage rates began to rise. They did not have to embrace their singleness for this to happen. 

We are all sinners and have been since the Fall. I am sure that many of the "walks" of Christian men and women throughout history were filled with sin and strife, and yet, God blessed them with marriage because they lived in cultures in which marriage was valued and encouraged. If it was about "spiritual readiness," then the majority of those folks probably never would have married back then either. 

So why should things suddenly be different now... God remains the same... it is OUR culture that has gotten it wrong!


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

SuperNova said:


> I agree wholeheartedly with the bold.  As a single woman myself, I use to have such an intense urge to marry that it led me into some ungodly relationships with men in hopes that someone would marry me(because they promised they would right. . .)  Since I've been single, I've learned so much about what my relationship with God is, is not, and should be.



I agree with this too. While I want to marry, I am going to listen more closely to God on about this because I don't want to enter ungodly relationships. But I think that by having faith in God's will for marriage and to go to Him in prayer about it, that has made it easier for me, at least, to avoid ungodly relationships with the wrong men.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jan 31, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> I agree with this too. While I want to marry, I am going to listen more closely to God on about this because I don't want to enter ungodly relationships. *But I think that by having faith in God's will for marriage and to go to Him in prayer about it, that has made it easier for me, at least, to avoid ungodly relationships with the wrong men.*




TELL IT!!!  it feels good to not settle anymore because you have to be some kind of man to compare with what God has to offer.


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

To pray is one thing, to pray and not ask God why is another. It's avoidance.

 I didn't say sinless but one should not be living a sinful lifestyle and their IS a difference. We *can* obey God and do it successfully. Like I said, black Christian women get married everyday and they marry black Christian men. If what you are doing (not you specifically) isn't working after years of praying, ask the Lord for some insight as to the reason why. 

God needs a woman He can trust and one who is in obedience to His word. Some of us are still fornicating and expecting God to send someone holy our way. Why would He send a man to someone who does not have their flesh under control. Many a good potential mate have passed some by because they are still entangled in foolishness. Some of us are still emotional wrecks and will kill a relationship if the Lord sent someone our way. Why would we think God we do that to a man that He loves JUST as much as He loves us? Many of the singles could have BEEN  married if they had just humbled themselves before the Lord and asked HIM why

It is far easier to blame society and the world for our state than to look within for the true cause. God can not help us if we are in denial.


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> To pray is one thing, to pray and not ask God why is another. It's avoidance.



Okay, I agree with this!



> I didn't say sinless but one should not be living a sinful lifestyle and their IS a difference. We *can* obey God and do it successfully. Like I said, black Christian women get married everyday and they marry black Christian men. If what you are doing (not you specifically) isn't working after years of praying, ask the Lord for some insight as to the reason why.
> 
> 
> God needs a woman He can trust and one who is in obedience to His word. Some of us are still fornicating and expecting God to send someone holy our way. Why would He send a man to someone who does not have their flesh under control. Many a good potential mate have passed some by because they are still entangled in foolishness. Some of us are still emotional wrecks and will kill a relationship if the Lord sent someone our way. Why would we think God we do that to a man that He loves JUST as much as He loves us? Many of the singles could have BEEN  married if they had just humbled themselves before the Lord and asked HIM why
> ...



Agree with this too for the most part... but I still think though that the fact that singleness rates among black men are also pretty high (65% last time I checked) plays a role. If men aren't asking, then women aren't marrying. I know since we're women, we can only focus on ourselves, but if men are living in ungodly ways and avoiding marriage, then the women can do everything they're supposed to be doing and still have trouble marrying.  

My problem with a lot of this talk is that the assumption is that all of these quality men walking in God's word are out there just a-waitin', and we women who are stumbling are preventing them from entering our paths. The men's role in this issue is never explored, which is why I say the problem is often bigger than women alone who are stumbling. I dare say that the men are the ones struggling more with keeping their flesh under control than most women, and many of the men are out of God's will because they are NOT seeking wives. If they are not seeking wives as they are commanded, then women will not marry.

ALL of us are falling outside of God's will, and that's created the problem here.

This verse seems to fit the situation..._Psalms 78:63 Fire devoured their young men. Their virgins had no wedding song._


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## HeChangedMyName (Jan 31, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Okay, I agree with this!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




IMO, men aren't asking because God wont let them, because we(as a whole, not you and I because we are single and happy, but willing to be married too) are more focused on the men than we are on God.  God is a jealous God and he aint having it.  He is the blocker extraodinaire and wont have just anyone stepping to his girls


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

SuperNova said:


> IMO, men aren't asking because God wont let them, because we(as a whole, not you and I because we are single and happy, but willing to be married too) are more focused on the men than we are on God.  God is a jealous God and he aint having it.  He is the blocker extraodinaire and wont have just anyone stepping to his girls



Or are the men ALSO not focused on God? Because if they were, I'm sure they would find a Godly woman to marry and not have a problem asking.

If they are also operating outside of God's will because they are focused on worldly things and not God, then they too will engage in sin and avoid of Godly courtship and marriage.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jan 31, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Or are the men ALSO not focused on God? Because if they were, I'm sure they would find a Godly woman to marry and not have a problem asking.
> 
> If they are also operating outside of God's will because they are focused on worldly things and not God, then they too will engage in sin and avoid of Godly courtship and marriage.



And WHOOMP there it is.  Marriage is God's and we have tampered with it, abused it, neglected it, and all sorts of things in order to make it what we want, and not what he ordained it to be.


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

SuperNova said:


> And WHOOMP there it is.  Marriage is God's and we have tampered with it, abused it, neglected it, and all sorts of things in order to make it what we want, and not what he ordained it to be.



You know, as with a lot of topics on this board, I think there's more agreement than disagreement, even if we might say things a little differently!


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## Sasha Fierce (Jan 31, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> To pray is one thing, to pray and not ask God why is another. It's avoidance.


 
Can y'all break this down for me? 

Does it mean that when we pray and don't receive an answer we should ask God to show us why?


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## HeChangedMyName (Jan 31, 2009)

SmartAlek said:


> Can y'all break this down for me?
> 
> Does it mean that when we pray and don't receive an answer we should ask God to show us why?



more like when you keep pestering God about something and not getting any answer at all, but you are just hoping that it will come to pass rather than asking more specifically if, when, why, where, how you can direct your prayers on the issue.  By asking him his input rather than placing your order for what you want you submit to his will.


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

We HAVE to stop limiting God. He is not subject to stats. If you are in position to marry and it is His will for you to marry then He will have NO problem finding an appropriate mate. Those questions need to be asked of Him. "Lord is it YOUR will for me to marry and if so what do I need to do to get prepared?" Many are called but few are chosen because they are not aligned with God in other areas of their lives.


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> We HAVE to stop limiting God. He is not subject to stats. If you are in position to marry and it is His will for you to marry then He will have NO problem finding an appropriate mate. Those questions need to be asked of Him. "Lord is it YOUR will for me to marry and if so what do I need to do to get prepared?" Many are called but few are chosen because they are not aligned with God in other areas of their lives.



Well... a few Christian ministers might say that God already stated that its His will for all of us to get married unless we are specifically called to a life of celibacy/singleness, so one does not have to ask if it is His will, because it's already been determined to be so.

Now, this doesn't mean that it will happen for all, but just because it doesn't happen doesn't mean that it wasn't His will.

Like you, I believe that God can do ALL things... but we perhaps differ in that I believe that God also offers free will to all, and because of that, some of us will suffer as the result of others' free will (i.e. the answer to the proverbial, "Why does God let bad things happen to good people" question.)

So, while God may not be subject to stats, I can definitely believe that low marriage rates are the result of the trickle-down effect of sin... when people chose to do things outside of God's will, this was His response. 

I don't remember any situations in the Bible in which anyone was instructed that they had to "prepare" for marriage. Folks just got married because that was what you were supposed to do. Once we decided over the past few decades that we wanted to do otherwise, well, this is the inevitable result.

And all the more need for prayer that God restores us back to his original design, which is marriage for the overwhelming majority of his children.


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## tgrowe (Jan 31, 2009)

A book that I highly recommend, as it helped me a great deal when I was single, is called "A Lady in Waiting: Developing your Love Relationships!" It's not what one would think if you become engulfed in the title but rather gives Godly insight on becoming a lady of character, wisdom, virtue, etc. in your singleness whether you are want to get married, planning to get married, or never get married. It taught me to focus on developing my love relationship with the Lord and desire a closer walk with him before desiring a mate. The Bible tells us in Philippians 4:6- to "be careful (anxious) for nothing but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses understanding will gaurd you heart and mind through Christ Jesus."


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## Sasha Fierce (Jan 31, 2009)

SuperNova said:


> more like when you keep pestering God about something and not getting any answer at all, but you are just hoping that it will come to pass rather than asking more specifically if, when, why, where, how you can direct your prayers on the issue. By asking him his input rather than placing your order for what you want you submit to his will.


 
Thanks, SuperNova.


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

SuperNova said:


> more like when you keep pestering God about something and not getting any answer at all, but you are just hoping that it will come to pass rather than asking more specifically if, when, why, where, how you can direct your prayers on the issue. By asking him his input rather than placing your order for what you want you submit to his will.


 
AMEN!!!!!



SmartAlek said:


> Can y'all break this down for me?
> 
> Does it mean that when we pray and don't receive an answer we should ask God to show us why?


 
The Lord says in His word, "Let us reason this thing together", let's talk about what's going on with you. We need to constantly seek Him and His counsel. What we do instead is give Him our desires (wishlist basically) without asking Him to order our steps, adjust our plans. We want to, "name and claim" everything and tell Him what He owes us. You owe me a husband, a house, a car, a job etc. without being in a position to receive anything because of our arrogance. What if He doesn't want you to have the house you've been praying for but wants you to live in a bigger and better one because someone is going to need shelter and He knows you won't harm them? What if He wants you to drive a minivan instead of that sports car you've been "claiming" because He needs you to get some folks to church. What if He doesn't want you to marry because He needs you to travel to exotic places all over the world, preaching the gospel? We need to ask," What is your will Lord? This is what I want but what do YOU want?". Jesus is our first example, " Nevertheless Lord, I want YOUR will to be done in my life!". Peace comes when we seek His will for our lives instead of our own.


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## HeChangedMyName (Jan 31, 2009)

I just wanted to add that this single contentment is VERY new to me.  What is helping me to rationalize it all has been to switch my focus.  I started to be honest with myself about the reasons I felt like I should get married and the reality that my reasons were . . .selfish.  I didn't really want to marry for companionship and . . .love.  I wanted someone to go half on the rent, half on childcare, half on the dishes and love and companionship would be a bonus.  Sort of like I had been treating God.  I was placing my order with God to the point that I had neglected the relationship with him.  Sure I was content with his giving and keeping things in order, but I didn't take the time to just commune with God and be in relationship with him.  

I still want to get married but for different reasons now and I have accepted the fact that it is up to God whether or not I have a marriage that he wants me to have.  I no longer want marriage unless it is directed and ordered by him.  We could all get married(illegal aliens would love to oblidge) but we have to get honest about our reasons for wanting marriage and spend time being content with God being our husband while we hash it all out.  just my opinion though, it works for me.


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## yodie (Jan 31, 2009)

AMEN!!!!!!!!



Bunny77 said:


> Y'all know I love discussing this topic.
> 
> I have to agree with Kayte though... I don't think the prayer is meant in a negative way at all, but I am one of those who believes that a main reason for many people's current state of singleness is NOT because it's God's will, but because we as a society are unfortunately suffering from the poor choices of those before us. Once we as a people (specifically the black community) began denigrating marriage and began normalizing out-of-wedlock parenting, not "needing" fathers in the home, etc., then those things trickled down to our generation.
> 
> ...


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Well... a few Christian ministers might say that God already stated that its His will for all of us to get married unless we are specifically called to a life of celibacy/singleness, so one does not have to ask if it is His will, because it's already been determined to be so.
> 
> Now, this doesn't mean that it will happen for all, but just because it doesn't happen doesn't mean that it wasn't His will.
> 
> ...


 
The stats are not going to get better because the world is going to wax worse and worse (biblical). So where is God going to find these men since He's limited to this pool?
They were prepared for marriage in biblical times because they were raised to marry. The man also sought the wife not the other way around. He was presented to her family and a decision was made whether or not the man was worthy not the woman. There is also no examples that I can think of of the Lord having women pray for husbands.

If we can just marry whoever we want and God is cool with it, no preparing for marriage necessary please explain the divorce rate of over 50% for *Christian* marriages, let's forget the world. It seems to me that somebody was *NOT* prepared, somebody did *NOT* heed the warnings of the Lord, did *NOT* ask if that person was the one *HE* wanted them with and married someone that was not blessed by God for them. Asking the Lord is simple, saves a ton of time and loads of grief. Any minister who would suggest that we don't need to ask the Lord if it's His will for us to marry is a fool. What harm will it cause to ask Him? I see none but I see a lot of harm caused by not asking.


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## kayte (Jan 31, 2009)

> If one has been praying for years and the Lord still has not sent that blessing their way......... then it is time to ask the Lord why. Instead *of continuing to pray the same fruitless prayer *a heart to heart needs to be established between the unmarried and the Lord.


thanks for your thoughts ...
love discussing this....

I don't believe this,though. about fruitless praying ...
fruitless..to whom? 
who can determine what is in the private 
relationship between a person and their God 
that one can deem that idea fruitless...that is between the prayer-er and God
I can't make that assesment... it's not my business or my right
neither is it the Johns to say ....
there are ways to say ..be at love in your own self
without saying and titling their prayer 
be content to be alone  
it's insensitive and not meaningful without expanding on why 
or even what it means
especially from the pen of a married couple

they can say 
_we are praying for those who are struggling 
give them peace that surpasses human understanding as 
they turn to you with thier request of loving godly partnership
give your love when they need it most and open theway to 
prepare for them to be in right realtionship _

but to say let them feel content with being  
alone .....I don't agree 
I'd love to edit to Shimmie's prayer which addresses 
the issue beautifully 
with love and with sensitivity

and heart to heart?....*that  is a Christian given *..for every Chritian
and not as a holy default for the unmarried 
who has yet to realize heart desire ...and certainly not just for marriage requests  
it's a way of the holy life..being umarried with a desire to be married 
does not eliminate or even disqualify that intimacy 

Hannah prayed for years and with such passion a priest thought she was drunk! 
the CF woman of this month prayed for years....  
It does not say in the bible to give up or that years of prayers are considered fruitless ..respectfully ...that is human judgement...not spiritual design 
rather Jesus tells of the parable of the widow who knocked on the door of the judge and would not stop unitl he helped her and there are more where HE insists
to keep praying in request and in HIS NAME  




> If you are in position to marry and it is His will for you to marry then He will have NO problem finding an appropriate mate



respectfully disagree 
Once again human doctrine and human judgement based on 
the natural instead of superGod-natural would mandate...focus on what is seen

though in Hebrews it states
*Now faith is the substance of things hoped for..the evidence not seen*

human logic would have us think anything God wants us to have comes easily or it is not of God ..and if a struggle .. ..well then God does not mean for us to have it
anyway!

all we have to do,however is open the bible 
most of the people the heroes in the bible struggled mightily 
The psalms are filled with David's cries who initially easly killed a giant
was crowned king and spent the beginning of His kingship fleeing Saul 
Joseph the prime govenor of Egypt was sold in to slavery as a boy by his brothers 
Sarah..gave birth at almost 100 years 
look at Barack Obama...why should he be president with his humble start
Joel Osteen's father and grandfather were dirt poor...
Oprah Winfey was abused..Maya Angeou assaulted ..etc
JKRowling on welfare

do understand what I'm saying?
once you accept that premise that it must come easily to be of God
..you by pass the right and blessing of Christ to make what we as humans
experience as _miracles_ 
via the proces of faith
which  is the fulcrum of the miracle
when all hope is lost God is our HOPE
so our God show us how He does not ascribe to our equations
there is no such thing as fruitless prayer or prayers 
unless one is a pharisee..and I mean in ethic..not a literal

but not everyone will agree...I dislike the prayer!!!
but I respect the feeling of those who feel it speaks to the single
for this single it most emphatically..lol..does not


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

kayte said:


> thanks for your thoughts ...
> love discussing this....
> 
> I don't believe this,though. about fruitless praying ...
> ...


 
Do not limit God. Ask Him why. He is all knowing.


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> The stats are not going to get better because the world is going to wax worse and worse (biblical). So where is God going to find these men since He's limited to this pool?
> *They were prepared for marriage in biblical times because they were raised to marry. *The man also sought the wife not the other way around. He was presented to her family and a decision was made whether or not the man was worthy not the woman. There is also no examples that I can think of of the Lord having women pray for husbands.



The bold is exactly my point. Men and women are NOT being raised to marry today, and that's why marriages aren't taking place. Women in the Bible did not have the need to pray for husbands because getting married was not an issue. Since people today have dropped the ball on fulfilling God's intended will for marriage, many women have felt compelled to pray that God will break through this current sinful state of relationships so that they are able to marry. They are praying for a Godly man to seek them.



> If we can just marry whoever we want and God is cool with it, no preparing for marriage necessary please explain the divorce rate of over 50% for *Christian* marriages, let's forget the world. It seems to me that somebody was *NOT* prepared, somebody did *NOT* heed the warnings of the Lord, did *NOT* ask if that person was the one *HE* wanted them with and married someone that was not blessed by God for them. Asking the Lord is simple, saves a ton of time and loads of grief. Any minister who would suggest that we don't need to ask the Lord if it's His will for us to marry is a fool. What harm will it cause to ask Him? I see none but I see a lot of harm caused by not asking.



Again, all the more reason to pray for God to lead you toward a marriage of His will and NOT marry whomever we want. Also, once marriage takes place, a whole different set of temptations and situations take place, and even a Godly couple that "prepared" beforehand could be in danger of divorce if they don't continue to pray for their marriage and put God first. Job loss, miscarriages, depression, family illnesses, etc... all those can tear even the most faithful Christians asunder and unfortunately, the world will encourage divorce before encouraging them to turn to God. We live in a "me first" society, so it unfortunately would result in more divorces. 

This does NOT mean that all of those couples shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Some shouldn't have, but others probably could save their marriage if they are given the guidance and encouragement that they need. That's where a lot of churches can -- and do -- step in to help. But again, when we live in a culture where marriage is NOT encouraged, OF COURSE divorce would be more common. 

I won't say whether those ministers are fools or not... maybe they see Godly marriage as a ministry just as much as anything else.


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## kayte (Jan 31, 2009)

> Do not limit God


on the contrary....your posts speaks to limitation
I do not allow _humans_ to limit me




> If you are in position to marry and it is His will for you to marry then He will have NO problem finding an appropriate mate


human logic...says it seems easy...of course all is in God's care



> of continuing to pray the same fruitless prayer



to say praying is fruitless.." the same fruitless prayer"  _is limiting God_
and is just not true..I posted the bliblical and non biblical examples
of continuing in prayer 
faith teaches us as Christians otherwise 

but we can agree to disagree!  
be blessed


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> The bold is exactly my point. Men and women are NOT being raised to marry, and that's why marriages aren't taking place. Women in the Bible did not feel the need to pray for husbands because getting married was not an issue. Since people today have dropped the ball on fulfilling God's intended will for marriage, many women have felt compelled to pray that God will break through this current sinful state of relationships so that they are able to marry. They are praying for a Godly man to seek them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
God forewarns and knows if either you or your partner will seek His face and stay married through tough times. We fial because of lack of understanding. God is all knowing. We miss blessings because we do not seek His will. Black Christian women marry black Christian men everyday. God is not limited by the world.


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> God forewarns and knows if either you or your partner will seek His face and stay married through tough times. We fial because of lack of understanding. God is all knowing. We miss blessings because we do not seek His will. Black Christian women marry black Christian men everyday. God is not limited by the world.



Black Christian women marry non-Black Christian men too.     (I know, that has nothing to do with the topic, but I just had to add that.)

Again, God is not limited by the world, but God could also give every Christian woman a husband tomorrow. And yes, many of those women would be spiritually ready for that man too. 

God could also make divorce disappear tomorrow. He could make sin disappear tomorrow. God could do anything He wanted, but He also lets us make our own choices. He will never deny us that "right"... He didn't deny it to Adam and Eve, and we see what happened becasue of it.

So He is allowing us to make our own choices, and because so many of us are choosing to follow the world and not Him, we and our children are suffering the consequences. Sins of the Fathers, as described in Exodus 20:5...


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## HeChangedMyName (Jan 31, 2009)

So, what part do you all think free will plays in this "contentment" in being single?

I mean, we all have free will and like I stated earlier, we ALL could be married to someone if we wanted to.  I can remember studying an idea that God is in charge, but not in control.  He can see the big picture, but hands the reigns over to us to a certain extent by allowing us free will to chose and have experiences.  there are of course consequences for this free will when it isn't lined up with God's will.


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

kayte said:


> on the contrary....your posts speaks to limitation
> I do not allow _humans_ to limit me
> 
> 
> ...


 
I said fruitless prayer not worthless prayer. If a prayer is not bearing fruit(God's word does not return to Him void correct?) then the one praying it needs to ask God if the prayer was in line with His will. I don't understand the resistance of a Christian to ask God.


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Black Christian women marry non-Black Christian men too.  (I know, that has nothing to do with the topic, but I just had to add that.)
> 
> Again, God is not limited by the world, but God could also give every Christian woman a husband tomorrow. And yes, many of those women would be spiritually ready for that man too.
> 
> ...


 
And that why we have to ask God what His will is pertaining our lives to avoid unecessary sorrow. Why is asking God if He wants you to marry a bad thing?


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> And that why we have to ask God what His will is pertaining our lives to avoid unecessary sorrow. Why is asking God if He wants you to marry a bad thing?



I don't think it's bad to ask, but because of the way I see marriage outlined in the Bible, I see it more as a foregone conclusion rather than something that needs to be asked of God. To me, asking if God wants me to marry is like asking me if He wants me to have food, water, shelter and the like. I know the answer already, and it's yes. 

That doesn't mean that marriage is guaranteed to happen for me. I recognize that. But I feel completely at peace knowing that it has always been God's will for his children who desire marriage, which includes me, to marry. If he willed that for His people since He created Adam, I don't think He's changed His mind since then.  

Now I know you will disagree on that philosophy, and that's cool. We can agree to disagree on that.


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## Bunny77 (Jan 31, 2009)

SuperNova said:


> So, what part do you all think free will plays in this "contentment" in being single?
> 
> I mean, we all have free will and like I stated earlier, we ALL could be married to someone if we wanted to.  I can remember studying an idea that God is in charge, but not in control.  He can see the big picture, but hands the reigns over to us to a certain extent by allowing us free will to chose and have experiences.  there are of course consequences for this free will when it isn't lined up with God's will.



Well, I think you know how I feel!  

I think free will -- not just our own free will, but that of others -- can definitely throw us off God's will!


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## Ms.Honey (Jan 31, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> I don't think it's bad to ask, but because of the way I see marriage outlined in the Bible, I see it more as a foregone conclusion rather than something that needs to be asked of God. To me, asking if God wants me to marry is like asking me if He wants me to have food, water, shelter and the like. I know the answer already, and it's yes.
> 
> That doesn't mean that marriage is guaranteed to happen for me. I recognize that. But I feel completely at peace knowing that it has always been God's will for his children who desire marriage, which includes me, to marry. If he willed that for His people since He created Adam, I don't think He's changed His mind since then.
> 
> Now I know you will disagree on that philosophy, and that's cool. We can agree to disagree on that.


 
You believe it's His will for you to be married but that it's not guaranteed? Yeah, we don't agree.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 1, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> You believe it's His will for you to be married but that it's not guaranteed? Yeah, we don't agree.



It's not guaranteed that I'll wake up tomorrow either, but I can still believe it's God's will that I will have a long and fruitful life.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 1, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> It's not guaranteed that I'll wake up tomorrow either, but I can still believe it's God's will that I will have a long and fruitful life.


 
What does the bible say will happen when we line our will up with His will, that it will come to pass right?


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## MrsQueeny (Feb 1, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> It's not guaranteed that I'll wake up tomorrow either, but I can still believe it's God's will that I will have a long and fruitful life.



I think I get what you are saying that is why we are to pray thy (God's) will be done. Because as much as we want it and He wants it, it (His will) doesn't always happen.  Q


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## Bunny77 (Feb 1, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> What does the bible say will happen when we line or will up with His will, that it will come to pass right?





***Que*** said:


> I think I get what you are saying that is why we are to pray thy (God's) will be done. Because as much as we want it and He wants it, it (His will) doesn't always happen.  Q



^^^That's exactly what I mean!


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 1, 2009)

Wow  

Goodnight ladies


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## MrsQueeny (Feb 1, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> ^^^That's exactly what I mean!



Goodness knows His will was for Adam and Eve to not sin but they did.  It's too bad that we allow our will to have too much control.  But God is still good and I thank Him for loving me even when I am a knucklehead.  Q


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## kayte (Feb 1, 2009)

> then the one praying it needs to ask God if the prayer was in line with His will. I don't understand the resistance of a Christian to ask God.


once again this is a given......for everyone....

let's assume... please 
that a non-married Christian is not being "willful".."or resistant"
but IS leading a prayerful intimate connected life with God..
seeking His will in  a..l..l   areas of one's life




> I said fruitless prayer not worthless prayer. If a prayer is not bearing fruit(God's word does not return to Him void correct?) then the one praying it needs to ask God if the prayer was in line with His will. I don't understand the resistance of a Christian to ask God.


 
prayer that does not bear not fruit is not fruitless...
the very nature of prayer is intimate commune with God.....
to say if a prayer does not manifest the desired request is is to deem it worthless that is human logic and judgement..and lack of faith 
no God's word does not return void...but His ways are also above human understanding

do not take my word for it  take God's word! 
read all of Hebrews 11....all of it
the answer is right there

For myself I've decided the Lord knew I'd be mighty agitated
with that in my in-box
and I had to run before a midnight deadline on an art colony submission  I'd worked on all day...luckily living right down the street from the all night post office )

when I came back opened my door an evangelist was on TV
saying God does possible out of the impossible
keep believing even if you don't understand

so ..my take on this... Mrs Honey is a messenger 
and the message I heard was 

DON'T LIMIT GOD

why argue ..with that?
It's good advice
and it's true and so it is


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## Nice & Wavy (Feb 1, 2009)

***Que*** said:


> Goodness knows His will was for Adam and Eve to not sin but they did. *It's too bad that we allow our will to have too much control*. But God is still good and I thank Him for loving me even when I am a knucklehead.  Q


 
Exactly.  Our will can be stronger than God's will at times.  What I mean by that is this:

God is always at work to will and to do His good pleasure in our lives.  However, our 'will' hinders it from going forth in our lives because we don't want it His way, but our own...forgetting that it doesn't work that way...it's His way or the highway.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 1, 2009)

well, I don't have to add anything Ms_Honey said it in her 1st few posts. I agree, I like the OP prayer I don't see anything wrong with it as it is or that it is written by a married couple. 

My personal experience w/ _singleness in the unmarried state_ is that I'm quite content. I have no desire to be married. *For me* the only thing marriage holds is the possibilities of additional money and sex. That is about it. I've been proposed to by at least three different men and, obviously, I turned each one down. I currently have a suitor and I've told him that I'm not interested in marriage and if he is, he may want to consider perusing someone else. I am neither against marriage nor opposed to it. When I'm willing to relinquish my "freedom" so-to-speak and become one flesh with another imperfect human, then I will marry and enjoy my singleness in the married state. 


ETA:  In my opinion marriage is not something that God wills for anyone. He allows each of us to choose to marry or not and whom we marry. I do not believe that if I want to marry I need to pray a husband in my life. There are tons to choose from. I do believe that one should pray the type of husband they want or for a Godly husband but not for a husband or pray to be married or ask God for permission to marry. It is His good pleasure to give us the desires of our hearts as long as that desire is not to fulfill ungodly lusts of the flesh.  Just my opinion based on what I've read for myself in the bible and what I've been taught.



Abbreviated definition of single: Able to stand alone, whole, complete. One can be single and married or single and unmarried. Single does not denote marital status.


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## kayte (Feb 1, 2009)

> Goodnight ladies


or lol..good morning 

but I'm still going to make it to early service...
Have a most blessed Sunday:Rose:


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 5, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I understand where you're coming from but it's not negative, it's true. A* single has to be content being alone (not lonely) before the Lord will move them to the next state*. If singles can't be content in the state that they are in the Lord can't use them to their fullest potential because they are distracted by getting married which I notice alot with the sisters in Christian forum.
> 
> Singles need to stop seeking to be married and let the Lord send someone their way when *HE* feels they are ready to handle it. Who can *FIND* a virtuous woman. We are to be sought not the other way around. Otherwise there will be fornicating and folks marrying the first thing that says Lord, Lord that comes their way. Then once they are married they *WILL* long for their single state again and seek to regain it.
> 
> ...


 
Who said that was the gospel truth and the plight of all singles?

Honestly, it seems to be always either/or, never both/and.

This is a most informative and true post...
http://beforetheknot-andafter.blogspot.com/2007/07/rethinking-gift-of-singleness-getting_03.html 

I think it's disheartening to imply that if we get married because we want to get married that it's not ordained of God. 

And who says how long we have to stay single?!?!?! I am content being single, but it doesn't mean that I want to remain that way. And it's frustrating to be constantly made to feel like my desire for marriage and companionship is a bad thing.

Marriage and companionship can make you a better person. It can teach you sharing, compassion, kindness, etc. Some things that you may not learn completely as a single. If I wanted a house or a job or a higher education those are all seen as good things that could make me better, more successful or accomplished. But the minute you talk about wanting a HUSBAND (not just a man or a boyfriend) it's seen as a negative.

Yes there are a lot of marriages that don't work, but there are a lot of marriages that do. And that's what the church and Christians need to be upholding as the model and standard and not trying to discourage singles from wanting to or getting married because there are some knucklehead couples out there.

There are bad lawyers out there, but would I discourage someone that wants to be a lawyer because of those bad lawyers?

I tell you one scenario that can make for a jacked-up marriage. Women who are emotionally and sexually repressed because they've been conditioned to think that their desires (emotional and physical) are bad; rather than being taught how to express them appropriately and at the right time (once married). So they marry this man and have no clue how to express their desires because they've been taught that stating what you want or need to and from a man is wrong.

I'm gonna stop now, cuz this subject really gets under my skin. But I realize that everyone has the right to their views on marriage, religion and relationships. But don't fault me because I desire marriage. And quite frankly, God desires it for me too.


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## kayte (Feb 6, 2009)

> I'm gonna stop now, cuz this subject really gets under my skin. But I realize that everyone has the right to their views on marriage, religion and relationships. But don't fault me because I desire marriage. And quite frankly, God desires it for me too.



I find it troubling that it's MARRIED people who take the greatest 
self-righteous tenor...on singlehood...

I think the most healing thing for singles in the midst of that rhetoric,
 is let others have their opinions...that's all they are....not God's word... not truisms..merely opinion and 

in divine trust continue to live God's plan..the heart's desires are God's private
whisperings in close communion and intimate relationship in the Spirit ..
*with that person *
after prayer and close adherence to His word
no one has the right to dicker with that

be blessed 
runnin out to a rehearsal but when I come back....EDITING THE PRAYER


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 6, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Who said that was the gospel truth and the plight of all singles?
> 
> Honestly, it seems to be always either/or, never both/and.
> 
> ...


 
You need to learn how to read and then try practicing comprehension. 

You all are so distracted you are irrational. No one said it's wrong to desire marriage. What we said was to pray to God and see what his will is for your life pertaining to marriage and if their was anyplace you were out of line which may be causing Him to keep from sending someone your way. Anytime we get offended when someone suggests that we as Christians actually ASK God a question............ 

Marrieds aren't trying to keep singles from marrying, what we do is try to keep you all from marrying the wrong one. Please do not mistake the fact that contentment means to give up. It means live every state to the fullest.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

kayte said:


> I find it troubling that it's MARRIED people who take the greatest
> self-righteous tenor...on singlehood...
> 
> I think the most healing thing for singles in the midst of that rhetoric,
> ...


 
Self righteous?  Um, what about the fact that we speak from experience because we were once single? How about the fact that we've been where you all are and have entered into the state that you so diligently hope for? Iron sharpens iron. God says seek wisdom not opinions that make us feel better or agree with what we want.

 James 4:1-10
1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 *Ye lust and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and can not obtain: ye fight and war,* *Yet ye have not because ye ASK not, ye ask, and RECEIVE not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.*
 Seems like there are times when we don't get what we want because we haven't asked God some questions and sometimes it's something we're doing. Easily solved by a simple prayer to the Father but I digress. 

Ladies who think they may be interested, I counsel singles on this board who are progressing, growing and becoming fulfilled (content) in their single state and preparing for the next state, marriage, and having fellowships and have been asked to enter into serious godly relationships after only a few weeks of our chat. If anyone would like to join our chats conducted by a self righteous, married woman of one husband of 22yrs. including a reconcilation after filing for divorce, who ASKED God if she had to stay married and obeyed His answer, with 3 grown children, pm me.  

To arr1216, kayte, Bunny or anyone else who found my advice offensive, no offense meant. If you feel what you are doing is working cool. For anyone else who wants to be sure that you're aligned with God's will pertaining to marriage, feel free to pm me.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

kayte said:


> *To Be Content Alone *
> 
> 
> _Father, I'm praying for (name one or more) and others in my circle of family and friends who are single..._
> ...


 
I like this prayer.


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## kayte (Feb 7, 2009)

> You need to learn how to read and then try practicing comprehension.


??????????????????

I want  to recant what I said ..not fair to paint with such a broad brush!
There are truly and have been marrieds who have given their experience strength and hope with sensitive,candid _and encouraging _words...and these were heartfelt, spoken
gratefully accepted...in love 



> You all are so distracted you are irrational.


 lol...says who?


For..God has not given us a Spirit of confusion,but of sound mind,power _and love _

tis all


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## kayte (Feb 7, 2009)

> anyone else who found my advice offensive, no offense meant. If you feel what you are doing is working cool.



many thanks... beloved
no facetiousness..I heard you


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

Phl 4:11 

Not that I speak in respect of want: *for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, [therewith] to be content. *


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## discobiscuits (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Marriage and companionship can make you a better person.
> How? Because of the following?  It can teach you *sharing, compassion, kindness, etc.* Some things that you may not learn completely as a single.



I think that I learned those things in kindergarten & I believe that I've completly learned them now that I'm an adult. At least I hope so, I'd hate not to have learned those things & then enter a marriage lacking in those areas. 

I can get companionship w/o marriage & I would not marry to get companionship or  to learn  things that I should already know.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be married. When desiring marriage preoccupies one's thoughts or is so foremost in one's mind/heart/prayers that one's focus is on wanting a mate and not on the things of God is when it becomes a stumbling block. 

PS: One of the "things of God" is you.



*ETA:*


Ms.Honey said:


> *A single has to be content being alone (not lonely)* ...If singles can't be content in the state that they are in the Lord can't use them to their fullest potential because they are *distracted by getting married which I notice a lot with the sisters in Christian forum.*
> 
> he divorce rate among Christians is alarmingly high BECAUSE of our preoccupation with leaving the single state.* I see more prayers for future DH's(which is not a promise of the Lord by the way) than prayers to be holy women of God and witnesses of Christ in the earth.* Something is very wrong with our priorities.
> 
> The duty of a single woman PERSON is to care for the things of the Lord.



I agree particularly with the bold.


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

Married ladies have not reached some plateau with the LORD that singles have not

tis all


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## Bunny77 (Feb 7, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Married ladies have not reached some plateau with the LORD that singles have not
> 
> tis all



That's all I'm saying too.   

Ms. Honey, thank you for your last message. I'm sure you are doing great things for the women you counsel.

We are all in different places in life, and my main point on this topic is that I do not believe every piece of advice applies to all single women, all married women, etc. Married women are not on a different level necessarily, and single women are not necessarily single because God doesn't feel that they should be "moved" to the next level. A person's marital or nonmarital status is not necessarily an indication of anything, and I think we need to move away from the idea that often develops in certain Christian circles that married women are somehow more spiritually mature than single women, and that's why they're married, while single women are not. 

But the key is, since we're all Christians here, I think we can agree that we all must listen to God and trust in Him in every step of this process. And wherever we end up after that through His divine guidance is indeed His will.


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

of course there are challenges and blessings in each walk, there are still valleys and mountain tops, no position is greater than the other in God's eyes.  It takes a strong woman to stand in her singleness with God , and it takes a strong woman to stand in a marriage with a man in God, and in both states , we are still all only being prepared for God

so lets just go for the ride! and get what we need to out of each season,  Because he knows what he is doing and his timing can be trusted


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## PaperClip (Feb 7, 2009)

I had been dodging this thread for a while.... But I feel a light compulsion to share....

As a person who has whined and prayed and cried about marriage.... and some of you have listened and prayed with me during my lamenting....

As a person who desires marriage, who has been PROMISED marriage, and who believes what the Word of the Lord says concerning marriage and continues to believe the Lord for the manifestation of that promise.... I ask this:

Is. God. Enough?

Yep... that's a tough question to swallow.

My DISCONTENT concerning marriage only increased as the years went by.... I left my 30s behind this past January 1. And it's NOTHING but the grace and mercy of the Lord that I'm here in my right mind. Yep. I was so consumed with marriage that the seeming lack of that was driving me STRAIGHT to the mental ward. Seriously. Name a book about singleness and marriage, I've either bought it or checked it out of the library or read an excerpt online. Sermons about singleness and marriage. Been there, done that. Singles conferences. Been there done that. I began to dread going to weddings. Hearing about weddings. Saw "older" single women (esp. in the church) and I cried out to the Lord to not let me "end up like them".

I was not living life. I was slowly dying inside because of the marital expectations of society, church, and family that was turning into a POISON in my spiritual and natural body.

So where am I right now? In a NEW PLACE...brand new. Liken it to a brand new house (re)built from the ground up. So it's time to put in new appliances, fixtures, etc. The Lord had to recover me and strip me of those INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL EXPECTATIONS AND PRESSURES about marriage that had CHOKED the life out of me.

The Lord has even stripped my expectations about what my husband may look like, or how he may enter my life, and all that. Do I have standards? Yes. But I had set the pedestal of marriage SO HIGH and thought that I couldn't REALLY LIVE and BE HAPPY until I got married. But the Lord is ministering to me in such a way in that ULTIMATELY, my hope, my joy, my peace, is in the Lord Jesus Christ; He is the author and finisher of my faith.

I read a quote that said "even a great husband makes a poor god". 

So after I cry and lament, I think about how SERIOUS marriage is and I thank and praise the Lord for not giving me something I'm still being prepared for and that His TIMING is perfect.

May the peace of the Lord Jesus Christ settle in your hearts.


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I had been dodging this thread for a while.... But I feel a light compulsion to share....
> 
> As a person who has whined and prayed and cried about marriage.... and some of you have listened and prayed with me during my lamenting....
> 
> ...




What an awesome testimony!!!!


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> You need to learn how to read and then try practicing comprehension.
> 
> You all are so distracted you are irrational. No one said it's wrong to desire marriage. What we said was to pray to God and see what his will is for your life pertaining to marriage and if their was anyplace you were out of line which may be causing Him to keep from sending someone your way. Anytime we get offended when someone suggests that we as Christians actually ASK God a question............
> 
> Marrieds aren't trying to keep singles from marrying, what we do is try to keep you all from marrying the wrong one. Please do not mistake the fact that contentment means to give up. It means live every state to the fullest.


 
One thing I am not is distracted. And since you don't know me AT ALL, I will just attribute that uninformed statement to ignorance.

You assume a lot. But once again, I attribute it to your own ignorance of my life and how fulfilled it is.

And it's not your responsibility, or anyone else's who does not have spiritual credibility or authority in my life, to advise me on my walk or my desire to get married.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I had been dodging this thread for a while.... But I feel a light compulsion to share....
> 
> As a person who has whined and prayed and cried about marriage.... and some of you have listened and prayed with me during my lamenting....
> 
> ...


 

I am happy for you and all, but a lot of people assume that because some women want to get married that we're not living. That can't be further from the truth.

I know you are sharing your personal testimony and it's encouraging for those in similar situations.

But for the record, there are whole, happy, vibrant, living-life-to-the-fullest Christian women who desire marriage.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 7, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I had been dodging this thread for a while.... But I feel a light compulsion to share....
> 
> As a person who has whined and prayed and cried about marriage.... and some of you have listened and prayed with me during my lamenting....
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing your story, and I am happy that you have peace regarding this issue.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

1star said:


> I think that I learned those things in kindergarten & I believe that I've completly learned them now that I'm an adult. At least I hope so, I'd hate not to have learned those things & then enter a marriage lacking in those areas.
> 
> I can get companionship w/o marriage & I would not marry to get companionship or to learn things that I should already know.
> 
> ...


 
Kindergarten? Yes you learn the basics and foundation. But marriage is another level of sharing. And all of my married friends attest to that. They have learned and grown in those areas as a result of being married.

You assume that because I want to be married, that's all I think about. Well, it's not. But that also doesn't mean that I'm NOT going to pray regarding my marriage.

You and Ms. Honey really need to stop assuming so much...


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> *You need to learn how to read and then try practicing comprehension. *
> 
> You all are so distracted you are irrational. No one said it's wrong to desire marriage. What we said was to pray to God and see what his will is for your life pertaining to marriage and if their was anyplace you were out of line which may be causing Him to keep from sending someone your way. Anytime we get offended when someone suggests that we as Christians actually ASK God a question............
> 
> Marrieds aren't trying to keep singles from marrying, what we do is try to keep you all from marrying the wrong one. Please do not mistake the fact that contentment means to give up. It means live every state to the fullest.


 
And for the record, this statement was condescending, unneccessary and disrespectful....

Colossians 4:6: Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> I am happy for you and all, but a lot of people assume that because some women want to get married that we're not living. That can't be further from the truth.
> 
> I know you are sharing your personal testimony and it's encouraging for those in similar situations.
> 
> But for the record, there are whole, happy, vibrant, living-life-to-the-fullest Christian women who desire marriage.



This is very true


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## Bunny77 (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> I am happy for you and all, but a lot of people assume that because some women want to get married that we're not living. That can't be further from the truth.
> 
> I know you are sharing your personal testimony and it's encouraging for those in similar situations.
> 
> But for the record, there are whole, happy, vibrant, living-life-to-the-fullest Christian women who desire marriage.



Just responding mainly in regards to your last sentence... what you're saying is perhaps more direct to the point I was trying to get across.

Many single Christian women do have very fulfilled lives and are doing wonderful things as singles. We aren't all up under some random man hoping that he's "the one" or failing to do things in our churches and communities. There are many single women who are also remaining pure well beyond their 20s and avoiding sexual sin as a show of their commitment to God as well. 

Are there some women who keep jumping from wrong man to wrong man to wrong man and never changing their habits, but yet wondering why they are still single? Absolutely! And when I encounter some women (and men) like that, I suggest that they go through a period of singleness so that they can break the dangerous, ungodly cycle that they are going through and work more on listening to God's voice in relationship matters instead of their own.

But again, every single woman has a different story. There are single women who are making bad relationship choices, and single women who rarely date at all because they are working to avoid the types of men who would compromise their relationship with God. There are single women who feel they can have no life outside of having a man, and there are single women who are traveling, training for marathons, having fun with girlfriends, volunteering in their communities and being a blessing to all of those around them. 

Without knowing each single person's story, one cannot say that each single person who desires marriage and is praying for that isn't living a fulfilling life alone already. I think if there was some offense taken to some posts in this thread, it was because that's how the status of a single woman who desires marriage is often presented -- that she is failing to live life to the fullest on her own and is only focused on finding a man.

Not true.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Just responding mainly in regards to your last sentence... what you're saying is perhaps more direct to the point I was trying to get across.
> 
> Many single Christian women do have very fulfilled lives and are doing wonderful things as singles. We aren't all up under some random man hoping that he's "the one" or failing to do things in our churches and communities. There are many single women who are also remaining pure well beyond their 20s and avoiding sexual sin as a show of their commitment to God as well.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for saying this...


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## PaperClip (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> I am happy for you and all, but a lot of people assume that because some women want to get married that we're not living. That can't be further from the truth.
> 
> I know you are sharing your personal testimony and it's encouraging for those in similar situations.
> 
> But for the record, there are whole, happy, vibrant, living-life-to-the-fullest Christian women who desire marriage.


 
I had to read this a couple of times to see the heart of your point.

Exactly what do you perceive my "situation" to be and what is it similar to?

On the outside, I looked like the whole, happy, vibrant, living life to the fullest Christian woman. Most people around me presumed that I was so focused on my career and schooling and that marriage wasn't on my radar screen. But in private, I was in a lot of pain, and that pain increased as my biological age increased. The pressure... the pressure... the pressure.

My singleness has not been unproductive. I have (and still do) travel, and I'm FINALLY appreciating my freedom to travel, go to school, buy what I want, so on and so forth.

Hopefully my testimony will serve as a cautionary tale for those who are going along and may one day all of a sudden, hit a brick wall of disappointment (in God, in yourself, in society, in the church) and may not be able to bounce back because of the pressures. I was going along happy and all and when I hit the brick wall, it wasn' pretty. 

I STRONGLY encourage the pursuit of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other way to true peace and contentment but the Lord Jesus Christ.

In a way, it's like I'm starting over on a social level. Between school and the perversion of the pressure from the church and society to marry, I went into a deep depression but I'm here to tell the story that the Lord has brought me out of that pit. He's restored the sweet, outgoing parts of my personality and it's being noticed even when I don't realize it!


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## PaperClip (Feb 7, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Just responding mainly in regards to your last sentence... what you're saying is perhaps more direct to the point I was trying to get across.
> 
> *Many single Christian women do have very fulfilled lives and are doing wonderful things as singles. We aren't all up under some random man hoping that he's "the one" or failing to do things in our churches and communities. There are many single women who are also remaining pure well beyond their 20s and avoiding sexual sin as a show of their commitment to God as well. *
> 
> ...


 
All good points, esp. the bolded....

Looks like I'm the bridge between the counterpoints between Ms.Honey and Bunny77 (using these two posters based on what I've picked up browsing the thread).

*1. On one side,* the point is that being consumed (overtaken) with the desire of marriage can distract and threaten one's relationship with the Lord and with a healthy, vibrant life.

*2. On the other side,* the point is that one can have a healthy, balanced desire for marriage and believe passionately for that desire without being overconsumed with marriage.

Now allow me to step in: I started off at *#2* and I allowed pressures and disappointments to affect me and one day I looked up (seemingly all of a sudden) and saw myself at *#1*. Wow.... what a miserable place to be in.

I beseech you dear ladies to not let this happen to you. And one way to avoid this is to be honest with yourself and the Lord and own your feelings about your desires for marriage and work to keep it all IN BALANCE so that you don't end up in* #1 *like I did.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 7, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> All good points, esp. the bolded....
> 
> Looks like I'm the bridge between the counterpoints between Ms.Honey and Bunny77 (using these two posters based on what I've picked up browsing the thread).
> 
> ...




I think that was a good way to "bridge" both perspectives.

I'd say I'm at No. 2.     And if that status lasts longer than I might have planned, I agree that it's important not to fall into category No. 1.  

I can't speak for Ms. Honey (and she doesn't need me to, lol), but she might be encountering a lot of women in category No. 1 -- and seeing those women make poor decisions based on their status in category No. 1 -- which is reflected in her comments and perspective.

I see people who reside in both groups, and I know a lot of 2s. I just don't want the 2s to be discouraged from their desire as if its ungodly in some way.


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## hopeful (Feb 7, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I had been dodging this thread for a while.... But I feel a light compulsion to share....
> 
> As a person who has whined and prayed and cried about marriage.... and some of you have listened and prayed with me during my lamenting....
> 
> ...


 
This is a beautiful testimony.  Thank you for sharing.  I am beyond happy for you and the current state you are in.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 7, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> single women are not necessarily single because God doesn't feel that they should be "moved" to the next level. A person's marital or nonmarital status is not necessarily an indication of anything, and I think we need to move away from the idea that often develops in certain Christian circles that married women are somehow more spiritually mature than single women, and that's why they're married, while single women are not.
> 
> *This is so true.*
> 
> But the key is, since we're all Christians here, I think we can agree that we all must listen to God and trust in Him in every step of this process. And wherever we end up after that through His divine guidance is indeed His will.





FoxyScholar said:


> As a person who has whined and prayed and cried about marriage....
> sadly, there are far too many ladies on this forum who do the same thing. I think that is what Ms_Honey and some others are trying to discourage - the whining, crying, and repeated praying to be married. I don't think anyone here is trying to discourage the desire to be married. It appears that some posts in this thread want singletons to be hopeful for marriage but in the meantime while she is waiting/hoping/praying/desiring for her to live life to the fullest and don't whine/cry or get depressed or discontented.
> 
> *My DISCONTENT concerning marriage only increased* as the years went by.... I left my 30s behind this past January 1. And it's NOTHING but the grace and mercy of the Lord that I'm here in my right mind. Yep. *I was so consumed with marriage* that the seeming lack of that was driving me STRAIGHT to the mental ward. Seriously. Name a book about singleness and marriage, I've either bought it or checked it out of the library or read an excerpt online. Sermons about singleness and marriage. Been there, done that. Singles conferences. Been there done that. I began to dread going to weddings. Hearing about weddings. Saw "older" single women (esp. in the church) and I cried out to the Lord to not let me "end up like them".
> ...



I think that is the place where so many unmarried ladies are in their lives and for a far too inordinate length of time. I think that your statements may even be a mirror image of several other unmarried ladies' experiences. I think that some of us who are posting do not want that experience for the singletons. 

It is sad that you wasted so much of your time, happiness and sanity but it is good that you are free from that now and in a better place spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically. 




> 1 Corinthians 7:32-34 (Amplified Bible)   32My desire is to have you free from all anxiety and distressing care. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord--how he may please the Lord;
> 33But *the married man is anxious about worldly matters--how he may please his wife*--
> 34*And he is drawn in diverging directions [his interests are divided and he is distracted from his devotion to God]*. And the unmarried woman or girl is concerned and anxious about the matters of the Lord, *how to be wholly separated and set apart in body and spirit*; but the married woman has her cares *[centered] in earthly affairs*--how she may please her husband.







arr1216 said:


> *
> ...there are whole, happy, vibrant, living-life-to-the-fullest Christian women who desire marriage.*


Agreed


*For me, marriage (from a Christian stand point) has a set of rules that I do not want to play by right now.* Right now I love my freedom so much that I do not want to give it up.


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## aribell (Feb 7, 2009)

***Que*** said:


> I think I get what you are saying that is why we are to pray thy (God's) will be done. Because as much as we want it and He wants it, it (His will) doesn't always happen. Q


 
Interesting thread ladies, and I can definitely see both sides, but this ^^^ I cannot cosign. What prevents God's will from being done in our lives is our failure to seek to understand His will and/or our failure to live in obedience to it.  If you and God are truly on the same page, that's where the Spirit begins to do all sorts of wonderful things in your life.  If something is really what the Lord has ordained, then we can rebel against it and thereby hinder His will in our lives, but there isn't any question about whether He will bring it to pass.



Ms.Honey said:


> What does the bible say will happen when we line our will up with His will, that it will come to pass right?


 
Yes.  If there is any chance that it won't happen, then it wasn't truly what God had ordained.



Ms.Honey said:


> I said fruitless prayer not worthless prayer. If a prayer is not bearing fruit(God's word does not return to Him void correct?) then the one praying it needs to ask God if the prayer was in line with His will. I don't understand the resistance of a Christian to ask God.


 
My prayer life is very much shaped by this truth.  I think that _all_ prayers must begin with a seeking and understanding of God's will...otherwise we could be wasting our energies seeking after something that is a foregone conclusion.  I don't think it's as black and white as being able to say, "Marriage is a good thing ordained by God, so He must want me to have it."  Marriage is a good thing, but He could want a different thing that He considers better for you.  Or (probably more likely) He could want you to stop seeking marriage before His Kingdom.

Yes, God does this; but praying about it would probably reveal whether that is or is not the case.  Or, after praying _you_ might make the choice to serve God as a single, even though it is a sacrifice, as many Christians do this.  As a young single woman, I am praying earnestly for a husband.  But I also spend just as much time checking my own heart and asking the Lord to be the Lord of my desires so that what I want conforms with His will.  I also ask God all the time to cut away fruitless desires, thoughts, etc. out of my heart, fruitless meaning that they are not going to be blessed by the Lord--not necessarily because they are bad, but because they aren't the path that I am to walk down.

Because no matter what, we are always to seek His will first and not our own desires.   Even if He is going to say "Yes, of course" anyway, our desire to walk with Him down _any_ road should be the starting point for our prayers.  It might seem like an uneccesary step, but the Lord teaches us a lot of things in that space between, "Not my will but Thy will be done," and "Yes, your prayer is granted."


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

You all really need to learn to read and attempt to comprehend. 
Read the prayer again and my post WITHOUT preconceptions of what you THINK we mean but listening to what we ACTUALLY said.


You read," Ask God if it's His will for you to marry" and you hear, "Marrieds don't want us to get married." You read, "Make sure you are in line with God's will in case you need to change something about your walk first before He sends you that someone and you hear, "They think they're holier than we are and have reached super sainthood.". You read, "Be content in the state that you are in.", which is what the Word says by the way, and you hear,"God says that you can't want to be married and wants us to be lonely all of our lives."  I'm glad that a couple of ladies did actually read the prayer and the posts I made and didn't take them out of context. 

Som of you all can't even hear something that you THINK may be contrary to what you are doing without being hurt, offended and on the war path and that really, really sad. Asking God will not cancel out your prayer that some of you have been praying for years, some over a decade. You don't want to ask Jesus, then DON'T ASK!!!!!


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## MrsQueeny (Feb 7, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Interesting thread ladies, and I can definitely see both sides, but this ^^^ I cannot cosign. *What prevents God's will from being done in our lives is our failure to seek to understand His will and/or our failure to live in obedience to it.  If you and God are truly on the same page, that's where the Spirit begins to do all sorts of wonderful things in your life.  If something is really what the Lord has ordained, then we can rebel against it and thereby hinder His will in our lives, but there isn't any question about whether He will bring it to pass.*



That is EXACTLY what I am saying.  His will is not done in some people because they are not obedient to Him.  Q


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## aribell (Feb 7, 2009)

***Que*** said:


> That is EXACTLY what I am saying. His will is not done in some people because they are not obedient to Him. Q


 
Oh, ok then!


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## MrsQueeny (Feb 7, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Oh, ok then!



You broke it down a little more but you and I are -><- here!!!  Q
ETA: I admit I didn't read the OP I was just commenting on what Bunny77 was saying. I will go back and read from the beginning later. Q


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## hopeful (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> *You all really need to learn to read and attempt to comprehend.*
> Read the prayer again and my post WITHOUT preconceptions of what you THINK we mean but listening to what we ACTUALLY said.
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think that so many women are just in so much pain and are so lonely and scared. It's a spiritual problem and a physiological problem. People just want it so bad. As a married woman and a married/Christian woman it is easier to "see" the problem but if you are living this it must be very hard. I don't know the bible like you and I do not have the confidence you have with regard to the scriptures. But like you I have been married for a long time, 22 years this summer, he and I have been together for 26 years. I am very happily married. Some women have reached out to me and want to hear what I have to say, even though some things may be hard to hear they are willing. Regarding marriage I have some wisdom. Some don't want to hear what I say and are annoyed that it comes from someone who is neither alone or lonely and no matter what I say or how I say it they don't want to hear it. And that's just going to have to be okay. Ms. Honey, you sound frustrated. I think the above bolded is a little harsh. Some women can't hear what you are saying just yet, some just don't agree with you, but believe me your words are touching and have touched many (not just a couple of ladies).


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## Mis007 (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> It is the word of God and it is biblical. Single women are to care for the things of the Lord 1 Cor.7:32. It's not a suggestion.* If you can not be happy and content in your single state you WILL NOT be happy and content for long once you marry.* The Christian divorce rate is a warning of that.
> 
> _This is very true, when reading this what came to mind is this; "I mean so much more to me than anybody I ever knew"._
> 
> ...


----------



## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

hopeful said:


> I think that so many women are just in so much pain and are so lonely and scared. It's a spiritual problem and a physiological problem. People just want it so bad. As a married woman and a married/Christian woman it is easier to "see" the problem but if you are living this it must be very hard. I don't know the bible like you and I do not have the confidence you have with regard to the scriptures. But like you I have been married for a long time, 22 years this summer, he and I have been together for 26 years. I am very happily married. Some women have reached out to me and want to hear what I have to say, even though some things may be hard to hear they are willing. Regarding marriage I have some wisdom. Some don't want to hear what I say and are annoyed that it comes from someone who is neither alone or lonely and no matter what I say or how I say it they don't want to hear it. And that's just going to have to be okay. *Ms. Honey, you sound frustrated. I think the above bolded is a little harsh. Some women can't hear what you are saying just yet, some just don't agree with you, but believe me your words are touching and have touched many (not just a couple of ladies*).


 
I know*sigh*. I just hate that some of them have to go through this when what they want is so close. Just a step over one little step. I have a girlfriend who's going through the same thing, been in long term relationship, afterlong term relationship, relationships that are godly(no fornication) but ending without the marriage she seeks for the last 12 years. Knowing that all she had to do was ask God how He wanted her to fellowship in the beginning before hearts and expectations get involved, was this the man He wanted her to marry or should this be seen as a fellowship only and if not to show her from the start, she could have been married with babies. 

I was frustrated when I wrote it. I usually don't post in these types of threads on the Christian forum, for that very reason. I liked the prayer and didn't see what was wrong with it and know that nothing is. I do know that some will want to continually kick against the pricks but my focus is on the other sisters who won't and those who will tire of it and want a better way.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 7, 2009)

Someone mentioned the 50% divorce rate for christians as an indicator that someone didn't pray or connect with G-d regarding their mate or their particular growth/relationship with G-d - that they are not exactly in G-d's full will.  I don't think that is necessarily true.  It could be that G-d ordained from some time that said person WILL go through a difficult relationship and divorce as part of their "cross" in life.  Too often, people think that to become religious means transformation to something not touchable by the world.  This is not true.  Being a christian means that the person has a relationship to G-d through christian doctrine/faith but he is still a faillable human being.   Far too often, people think that to become religious means that a "better" life is waiting around the corner, here on earth.  That also is not true. We all are victimized by the society in which we live.  People do not value marriage any longer.  Good christians can be influenced by that.


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## hopeful (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> *I know*sigh*. I just hate that some of them have to go through this when what they want is so close.* Just a step over one little step. I have a girlfriend who's going through the same thing, been in long term relationship, afterlong term relationship, relationships that are godly(no fornication) but ending without the marriage she seeks for the last 12 years. Knowing that all she had to do was ask God how He wanted her to fellowship in the beginning before hearts and expectations get involved, was this the man He wanted her to marry or should this be seen as a fellowship only and if not to show her from the start, she could have been married with babies.
> 
> I was frustrated when I wrote it. I usually don't post in these types of threads on the Christian forum, for that very reason. *I liked the prayer and didn't see what was wrong with it* and know that nothing is. I do know that some will want to continually kick against the pricks but my focus is on the other sisters who won't and those who will tire of it and want a better way.


 
I liked the prayer too.  And I'm glad you posted your thoughts.  I know your heart is in the right place.  I've been through it with so many friends and it is hard to watch.  I had one friend who after a divorce became so lonely she married the first man to ask.  She had become desperate and ignored all of the signs, her friends disapproval of the man, and her minister's request to hold off and wait a bit.  She took matters in her own hands completely and now is more miserable than when she was single/divorced.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> I'm gonna stop now, cuz this subject really gets under my skin. But I realize that everyone has the right to their views on marriage, religion and relationships. *But don't fault me because I desire marriage.* And quite frankly, God desires it for me too.


 
Without desire, one wouldn't seek.  I'd also like to say, regarding many posts here and not specifically yours, that G-d allows humans to have thought.  He gave us common sense.  G-d as well gave us a guideline on how to live.  Sometimes, actual specifics.   But no one here or elsewhere in the world has G-d on his fingertip.  If G-d doesn't provide you with an answer, then He's not providing you with an answer, at the moment.  It could be "yes" and it could be "no."  He does not operate within our guideline but us within His.  And oftentimes, that's up for interpretation on the true meanings.  

One has to put scripture within historical and cultural perspective to derive the jist of the meaning.  If not, we come off as the sole interpretors without realizing that we personally interpret according to our own histories and experiences.  Whatever is truth in your life may not be truth to another.  Yes, scripture is truth...but how G-d operates in your life is not going to mirror reflect another's.  Not everyone will see eye to eye and not all "truisms" were written well enough and with compassion to come off as wisdom.  Because just as surely as you think you have the sole truth, G-d will knock you off your pedestal to demonstrate that you truly .....do not know.  Only He knows all.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I had to read this a couple of times to see the heart of your point.
> 
> *Exactly what do you perceive my "situation" to be and what is it similar to?*
> 
> ...


 
How you felt and now feel in regarding to starting over...I don't know anything else, but it appeared that something has changed.

Once again, because I want to marry does not imply that I'm under the pressure of the church, society or anyone. Nor does it imply that I do not follow hard after Christ....because I do.

You questioned my thoughts regarding my interpretation of your situation, all I ask is the same courtesy about my desire to get married. You don't have to agree nor do I try to convert anyone to my way of thinking, but I do expect the courtesy and freedom to think that way and not be chastised for it by people that don't know me.


----------



## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> You all really need to learn to read and attempt to comprehend.
> Read the prayer again and my post WITHOUT preconceptions of what you THINK we mean but listening to what we ACTUALLY said.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Once again, you assume that because someone doesn't agree with you and conduct their lives the way you do that they haven't asked God regarding HIS (not your) plan for their lives. God speaks to me just as He speaks to others and because I CHOOSE to pray for my future husband and marriage (but it's not the only thing I pray for) does not make me out of line with God's will.

But I no longer expect agreement or respect of my personal beliefs on this matter.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Without desire, one wouldn't seek. I'd also like to say, regarding many posts here and not specifically yours, that G-d allows humans to have thought. He gave us common sense. G-d as well gave us a guideline on how to live. Sometimes, actual specifics. But no one here or elsewhere in the world has G-d on his fingertip. If G-d doesn't provide you with an answer, then He's not providing you with an answer, at the moment. It could be "yes" and it could be "no." He does not operate within our guideline but us within His. And oftentimes, that's up for interpretation on the true meanings.
> 
> One has to put scripture within historical and cultural perspective to derive the jist of the meaning. If not, we come off as the sole interpretors without realizing that we personally interpret according to our own histories and experiences. Whatever is truth in your life may not be truth to another. Yes, scripture is truth...but how G-d operates in your life is not going to mirror reflect another's. Not everyone will see eye to eye and not all "truisms" were written well enough and with compassion to come off as wisdom. Because just as surely as you think you have the sole truth, G-d will knock you off your pedestal to demonstrate that you truly .....do not know. Only He knows all.


 

I have no real clue what you mean by this post, but I assume it is a general comment, since you don't know of my personal relationship with Christ and whether or not he has given me an answer regarding marriage. Just because I'm not married, doesn't mean that I don't have an answer.

I know God operates differently in everyone's lives, but what several of you are implying and some outright saying in some of your posts is that the way God operates in my life is wrong, out of line or simply not so. And quite frankly that's presumptious, pompous and condescending. 

God may operate differently in your life, and that's fine. But don't snub or give off a pious attitude because it's different for me. That's no way for real Christian sisters to behave. If you (not necessarily you specifically) wanted me to grow or consider another viewpoint, implying I'm not spiritually astute enough to understand the prayer or that I'm somehow unfullfilled or involved in bad relationships was no way to do it.

This may seem harsh and adamant, but so is saying that I can't read for comprehension.


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## hopeful (Feb 7, 2009)

^^^ 
OT but you have made some serious progress with your hair, your siggy pics are .


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Once again, you assume that because someone doesn't agree with you and conduct their lives the way you do that they haven't asked God regarding HIS (not your) plan for their lives. God speaks to me just as He speaks to others and because I CHOOSE to pray for my future husband and marriage (but it's not the only thing I pray for) does not make me out of line with God's will.
> 
> But I no longer expect agreement or respect of my personal beliefs on this matter.


 
For some reason you have decided that I am talking to you specifically when I post. 

If you are not in the the situation that I'm posting about, why do you feel the constant need to engage me? Why not continue to ignore what I'm actually saying and also not read my post? Until this thread I don't recall actually knowing who you were. Why would you assume that I want you specifically to change something that you apparently you are on point on?

If you are not experiencing the situation the prayer and my posts are talking about, why are you so upset? Apparently you are not one of the ones we're talking about, correct?


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

hopeful said:


> ^^^
> OT but you have made some serious progress with your hair, your siggy pics are .


 

Thank you so much!!!!! Your hair is so lush...I can't wait til I get that length


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## hopeful (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Thank you so much!!!!! Your hair is so lush...I can't wait til I get that length


 
You're welcome and thank you.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> For some reason you have decided that I am talking to you specifically when I post.
> 
> If you are not in the the situation that I'm posting about, *why do you feel the constant need to engage me?* Why not continue to ignore what I'm actually saying and also not read my post? Until this thread I don't recall actually knowing who you were. Why would you assume that I want you specifically to change something that you apparently you are on point on?
> 
> If you are not experiencing the situation the prayer and my posts are talking about, why are you so upset? Apparently you are not one of the ones we're talking about, correct?


 
Because you quoted my post in yours....

I'm not upset...wrong assumption (again). I feel for you and your way of interacting with fellow Christians who don't agree with you.

And no, you are not talking about me. But there are women, not as strong in their faith or relationship with Christ, that will think, based on your thoughts, that their desires are wrong and try to discount them. And I do not want them to have a one-sided view of the subject.

So just as you are free to continuing posting your thoughts, so am I....and you don't have to read my posts either. It works both ways....


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## kayte (Feb 7, 2009)

Mrs Honey
be fair..be honest ..
this poster is rightfully responding because you are and have been directly quoting her
and then responding in a manner I personally found troubling even though you answered her 

for what it's worth ..for the record...I feel as she does ..a lot of presumptions made
 ...which is why I quoted your response to her (?????) as a gentle reminder 
that your responses were falling out of the boundary of a kind thoughtful response
...which you are so capable of 
you are presenting yourself as an authority and I find that questionable,too.
...in my own private relationshiop with God..HE is my authority
there's a lot of presumptions and controlling stuff at least for me 
that makes it hard to filter through to hear where we might agree 

I've maintained all along *it's a given *a single is seeking God...
and seeking God for only seeking God ...as a committed Christian life 
it does not suddenly default to 'single desperate woman'...striving 
in any way to get the married question secured

my initial reason for starting the thread was not to get permission 
or input on the single woman's rght to seek marriage from our Father
no..nothing could be further 

_but to illustrate the bias a single woman encounters from _
without ...wthin the Christian community and sadly ...
that is kind of bearing itself out

but here is the irony..we all agree 

_seek God first
be prayerful 
live a full and greatful/grateful life
turn to the Word _

it's the way it's being presented
that makes me feel that bias is pervasive
and insidious indeed....


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Because you quoted my post in yours....
> 
> I'm not upset...wrong assumption (again). I feel for you and your way of interacting with fellow Christians who don't agree with you.
> 
> ...


 

So when YOU keep telling us to stop saying that YOU are such and such, YOU aren't thinking of yourself but the sisters who aren't as spiritually astute as you are to know wheteher or not it was their state we were talking about to discount their desire to marry? No, that can't be what you meant by that because that would mean you are doing to them what you are wrrongly accusing us of doing

And it was YOU who quoted me and I do believe in your frustration you quoted someone else instead of me.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

kayte said:


> Mrs Honey
> be fair..be honest ..
> this poster is rightfully responding because you are and have been directly quoting her
> and then responding in a manner I personally found troubling even though you answered her
> ...


 

No, that's the way YOU and she have perceived it for some reason. Others didn't so it makes me wonder where you're getting it from.  She quoted me first and took what I said out of context and so did you and you did the same with the prayer. Even when I FURTHER explained that that was not what I said some went on the marrieds think they're better tangent. Like I said reread my posts and the prayer and quote me where I said it is wrong to want to be married.

ETA: Some single ladies in the thread weren't offended by what I said and how I said it but instead took my words into consideration.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> So when YOU keep telling us to stop saying that YOU are such and such, YOU aren't thinking of yourself but the sisters who aren't as spiritually astute as you are to know wheteher or not it was their state we were talking about to discount their desire to marry? No, that can't be what you meant by that because that would mean you are doing to them what you are wrrongly accusing us of doing
> 
> And it was YOU who quoted me and I do believe in your frustration you quoted someone else instead of me.


 
Actually my dear what I said was to stop assuming. I first responded to this post talking about me (since that's the only person I can discuss with authority). You quoted me and said I needed to read with comprehension.

But I'm not going to continue to banter back and forth. I've dealt with people like you before and it's useless.

I'm simply presenting two sides to a conversation....which is my right to do in an open forum.

Oh yeah, and your sarcasm is duly noted....


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Actually my dear what I said was to stop assuming. I first responded to this post talking about me (since that's the only person I can discuss with authority). You quoted me and said I needed to read with comprehension.
> 
> But I'm not going to continue to banter back and forth. I've dealt with people like you before and it's useless.
> 
> ...


 
It's such a simple thing to go back and see who quoted who first and who made the FIRST assumptions. 

You took what I said out of context. I NEVER said that no singles are content and I also said that I  had CONTENT singles in my chat but of course you didn't see that in my posts because you were offended that someone could possibly suggest that maybe you were not doing something right eventhough no one was talking to you in the first place.
I know people like you too.


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## phynestone (Feb 7, 2009)

Okay, ladies. Let's all take a time out. 

Obviously, this is a very sensitive subject to some and some posts may have been misinterpreted, taken out of context or mis-quoted. Perhaps some of us need to agree to disagree. I do not want this thread to be closed, so let's maintain the peace. 

(In my best Tim Gunn voice)

Carry on.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> It's such a simple thing to go back and see who quoted who first and who made the FIRST assumptions.
> 
> You took what I said out of context. I NEVER said that no singles are content and I also said that I had CONTENT singles in my chat but of course you didn't see that in my posts because you were offended that someone could possibly suggest that maybe you were not doing something right eventhough no one was talking to you in the first place.
> I know people like you too.


 

I may have quoted you first, but please don't get selective amnesia and act like you didn't quote me also...that is priceless! Quite pitiful actually....

Yes I am and was offended by your reading for comprehension statement. That's an insult to my intelligence, but I do not expect for you to understand that.

Even though your nor anyone else may have been talking to me, I decided to speak up...as (once again) is my right in an open forum.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> I may have quoted you first, but please don't get selective amnesia and act like you didn't quote me also...that is priceless!* Quite pitiful actually*....
> 
> Yes I am and was offended by your reading for comprehension statement. That's an insult to my intelligence, *but I do not expect for you to understand that.*
> 
> Even though your nor anyone else may have been talking to me, I decided to speak up...as (once again) is my right in an open forum.


 
I never said I never quoted you, again you do not read what I say and go off on your own. You have been posting the insults, read what YOU posted in this and your other posts. You are not innocent of it dear.
And your offense was apparent in the post were YOU quoted me first, making accusations and going on a tangent about something I NEVER SAID!!!!! YOU ASSUMED!!!!


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## hopeful (Feb 7, 2009)

Please ladies, let it go.  I think ya'll going to have to agree to disagree.  I think you both have valid points.  You have a different approach which I believe can be helpful to a lot of ladies.  One way is not necessarily better than the other.  Neither of you are going to agree on "who started it."  So why not just let it go?  A lot of ladies need help in this area.  A lot of ladies want to get married.  Let's all try to help each other in a kind and respectful way, please.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 7, 2009)

hopeful said:


> Please ladies, let it go. I think ya'll going to have to agree to disagree. I think you both have valid points. You have a different approach which I believe can be helpful to a lot of ladies. One way is not necessarily better than the other. Neither of you are going to agree on "who started it." So why not just let it go? A lot of ladies need help in this area. A lot of ladies want to get married. Let's all try to help each other in a kind and respectful way, please.


 
I agree and I can and am apologizing for offending anyone, but I do not apologize for my views or for my right to express them. Some other people in this thread apparently do not like being challenged themselves and are bent on having the last word.

But I will let a life well lived (and pleasing to God) speak for itself....


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## hopeful (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> I agree and I can and am apologizing for offending anyone, but *I do not apologize for my views or for my right to express them*. Some other people in this thread apparently do not like being challenged themselves and are bent on having the last word.
> 
> But I will let a life well lived (and pleasing to God) speak for itself....


 
You absolutely should not apologize for your views or the right to express them.  You have a very intelligent and positive point of view that needs to be and should be shared.  I was only referring to the back and forth as it gets tedious.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 7, 2009)

hopeful said:


> You absolutely should not apologize for your views or the right to express them. You have a very intelligent and positive point of view that needs to be and should be shared. I was only referring to the back and forth as it gets tedious.


 
You are correct. I'm done talking to her and she can have the last word and I don't want the thread locked. Someone will be blessed by it.


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## MonaLisa (Feb 7, 2009)

_*woooowww....*_

*exiting*


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

If you are single and comprehend that you are married to the LORD and He is Married to you and you walk in that

Then you understand you have the best most loving marriage in the world,  what can you not depend on him for? how can he fail you?

I think before you can ever stand with A MAN,  Because anyone with any wisdom knows marriage is NOT the happily ever after fairytail,  he is JUST A MAN, you first have to have a close relationship with the LORD and know God in a very intimate way or you could never stand with man/flesh

it just aint possible without first being so very close to the lord.  The enemy attacks marriages all the day long.  Safe haven is not marriage , it always has and will always ONLY be IN THE LORD and knowing him as the God he is can and will be to and for you,  alone, single or married


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

There will ALWAYS be 'inner' work for us to do as well

both Married,  to STAY married and while single

we will ALL always be a work in progress and NONE of us have arrived, if we are still here we aint arrived yet.  

wish we could all love eachother a little more through it all.  Married ladies you are not exempt from one day standing alone,  just you and the LORD,  so sow some love now in your 'unaloneness' so you can be sure to reap that harvest when and if the time comes for you

God has it all under control,  wherever we are with him, in whatever stage/state/SEASON we find ourselves in,  whatever we need to work out to get from point a to point b,  and on and on,  he is in control.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> I have no real clue what you mean by this post, but I assume it is a general comment, .


 

You said you desired to be married and I said that if a person didn't desire to be married, he wouldn't seek marriage.  People here act as though it's WRONG to seek marriage as evidence they are not seeking G-d.  Yes, my post was a generality and I said that past the "desiring a mate," it was not specifically aimed at you.  I actually agree with you.  

The following, not to you Arr1216:

Yes, there is a condescending attitude here regarding what some people think as the truth.  People dish it out, run, hide behind a wall of piety and then try to make the other feel they are to blame, all the while believing they are doing someone good.  The people are afraid the threads will be locked.  See what I mean?  Christians ARE influenced by the world around them.  Sigh.....


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## PaperClip (Feb 7, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> How you felt and now feel in regarding to starting over...I don't know anything else, but it appeared that something has changed.
> 
> *Once again, because I want to marry does not imply that I'm under the pressure of the church, society or anyone. Nor does it imply that I do not follow hard after Christ....because I do.*
> 
> You questioned my thoughts regarding my interpretation of your situation, all I ask is the same courtesy about my desire to get married. You don't have to agree nor do I try to convert anyone to my way of thinking, but I do expect the courtesy and freedom to think that way and not be chastised for it by people that don't know me.


 
Let's be very clear that you have not seen any chastisement coming from any of my posts nor have I questioned your relationship with the Lord.

Per the bolded: that's great that you don't feel the pressure. I say to you again in love and truth that if you're not careful, meaning that you don't have a godly balance, the pressures can overwhelm you like it did me. I'm sharing what I went through so you don't have to!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So you can see the signs and avoid the pitfalls.


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Let's be very clear that you have not seen any chastisement coming from any of my posts nor have I questioned your relationship with the Lord. I can boldly say that I'm still waiting on the Lord and I've been waiting for a LONG TIME. I haven't been jumping around from bed to bed and I haven't been a serial monogamist.
> 
> Per the bolded: that's great that you don't feel the pressure. I say to you again in love and truth that if you're not careful, meaning that you don't have a godly balance, the pressures can overwhelm you like it did me. I'm sharing what I went through so you don't have to!
> 
> ...



This very same breaking point that you reached can happen to so many of us over so many things,  just when we think the LORD has taken too long or asked too much and things get too hard

it can happen over relationships, jobs, family, money, health, marriages, kids, death, and on and on

we all have to be careful not to crash over such things, but you know what, when I think about it , each time I crashed,  I came up better,  so there is a blessing in the crash , that nobody can give to you, less you feel it, live and call on God for yourself through such a crash


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## PaperClip (Feb 7, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> This very same breaking point that you reached can happen to so many of us over so many things, just when we think the LORD has taken too long or asked too much and things get too hard
> 
> it can happen over relationships, jobs, family, money, health, marriages, kids, death, and on and on
> 
> we all have to be careful not to crash over such things, but you know what, when I think about it , each time I crashed, I came up better, so there is a blessing in the crash , that nobody can give to you, less you feel it, live and call on God for yourself through such a crash


 
True....

and yet, you'd be surprised to know that some folk don't always bounce back. Or they don't bounce back all the way.... Spend any time in ministry, meaning a position where you may be privy to hearing about people's situations... or even just how people open up... people open up to me and I tell you...some of the situations that people share....wow.... 

Or...some people are walking around thinking they're ok... they're healed and whole... and they're not.... they are medicating themselves with (legal) drugs and activities of choice, e.g., FOOD (mine was food)....

I had got so low that I couldn't call on the Lord anymore. I couldn't call on Him and I wasn't TRYING TO call on Him...I was leaving my right mind. but my God... the Lord must have reached back for some prayers I prayed when I was in my right mind and He honored those prayers.


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## aribell (Feb 7, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I know*sigh*. I just hate that some of them have to go through this when what they want is so close. Just a step over one little step. I have a girlfriend who's going through the same thing, been in long term relationship, afterlong term relationship, relationships that are godly(no fornication) but ending without the marriage she seeks for the last 12 years.* Knowing that all she had to do was ask God how He wanted her to fellowship in the beginning before hearts and expectations get involved, was this the man He wanted her to marry or should this be seen as a fellowship only and if not to show her from the start*, she could have been married with babies.


 
I wonder a lot about the bolded/italicized.  I feel like we are given many mixed messages, on one hand that we are to ask and wait, on the other hand that we have to be out there--not developing friendships--but becoming romantically involved with various people until we happen across the one.

But I've seen Christians who basically said that they were done with all that and wanted the Lord to preserve their heart for their spouse alone, and lo and behold, that is exactly what came to pass...without all the confusion and wondering.


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> True....
> 
> and yet, you'd be surprised to know that some folk don't always bounce back. Or they don't bounce back all the way.... Spend any time in ministry, meaning a position where you may be privy to hearing about people's situations... or even just how people open up... people open up to me and I tell you...some of the situations that people share....wow....
> 
> ...


I hear you girl and know just what your saying because I too have been there over other things,  and just like you he reached out for me, or I must have left just a crack open or something

your right we have so many pains, battles and struggles on so many layers at times its wild

Thankful we have him and know that with him and through him we can overcome it all

day by day

from Glory to Glory


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> I wonder a lot about the bolded/italicized.  I feel like we are given many mixed messages, on one hand that we are to ask and wait, on the other hand that we have to be out there--not developing friendships--but becoming romantically involved with various people until we happen across the one.
> 
> But I've seen Christians who basically said that they were done with all that and wanted the Lord to preserve their heart for their spouse alone, and lo and behold, that is exactly what came to pass...without all the confusion and wondering.



I agree , on another thread in OT ,about Marriage,  there were lots of posts about getting out there and doing this and that to make it happen,  but then where is that leaving it to God?

I mean if we are trusting him, then he surely can make two people's path cross at the right time,  even at a gas station, grocery store , whatever, just through reg old daily life happening,  the whole thread was like 'do this and you need to do that' I never responded on it, but it does leave out the whole 'God is able' kinda thing


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## discobiscuits (Feb 7, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> People here act as though it's WRONG to seek marriage as evidence they are not seeking G-d.


_hopefully no one inferred that from anything i've said. i've only tried to express that being preoccupied with marriage or finding a mate is what is damaging, not the desire for a mate/marriage. i don't think that desiring to be married or seeking a mate is wrong at all. i just want to be clear that i was only commenting about when seeking marriage/mate is so strong that it usurps putting God first. 

i hope i was able to get that across in my earlier posts.
_
moving on....

additionally, some of what Paul taught in his writings was his opinion. he even made it a point in one passage to explicitly differentiate between his opinion and the Lord's direction (1 Cor 7:10 & 12). i'm not saying that his opinion is not inspired by God i'm just pointing out that even he made clear what he desired for God's people vs. what God specifically instructed and his desires do not conflict with or negate God's instructions (another example 1 Cor 7:26).

bottom line: there is nothing wrong with wanting a mate or wanting to be married. just don't get to the point that FS mentioned in her post. i know that so many of us can relate to what she said. 

sometimes just b/c someone prays to God and asks Him for his permission or guidance does not always mean that person is putting Him first (in that area of concern). sometimes people have their own agenda (in a specific area) and try to bring God in as a co-conspirator instead of the author and finisher. i know i've done that - more than once.



GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Christians ARE influenced by the world around them.  Sigh.....



true. (even though i know you meant that comment specifically about the locked thread comment) it should be the other way around as we are supposed to be the light of the world. 
Matthew 5:13-16


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 7, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> I mean if we are trusting him, then he surely can make two people's path cross at the right time, even at a gas station, grocery store , whatever, just through reg old daily life happening, the whole thread was like 'do this and you need to do that' I never responded on it, but it does leave out the whole 'God is able' kinda thing


 

But isn't that kinda like asking G-d to make you a surgeon and you never go to medical school?  We are in a partnership in creation...it's ongoing.  Being fruitful and multiplying...requires work on our part as well.  I believe that G-d will place whomever, friend, foe, opportunities, tragedies...in the life of anyone He so desires.  That still doesn't mean we're to sit back waiting for some miracle to happen.  The "miracle" might happen while we're working on things.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 7, 2009)

1star said:


> true. (even though i know you meant that comment specifically about the locked thread comment) it should be the other way around as we are supposed to be the light of the world.
> Matthew 5:13-16


 

Rather, life in general, locked thread was only a very small example.  People are more influenced by the world than they think.  Transformation of the mind ...doesn't mean one suddenly becomes a walking spirit.  Cultures, events change...people pick up on that and live within it.  That's why I agree with Bunny on the effects of present-day culture on marriage.


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## Irresistible (Feb 7, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> But isn't that kinda like asking G-d to make you a surgeon and you never go to medical school?  We are in a partnership in creation...it's ongoing.  Being fruitful and multiplying...requires work on our part as well.  I believe that G-d will place whomever, friend, foe, opportunities, tragedies...in the life of anyone He so desires.  That still doesn't mean we're to sit back waiting for some miracle to happen.  The "miracle" might happen while we're working on things.



Of course faith without works is dead, but acts/works not lead by God are fruitless and are just as dead

cant we believe while we are living and doing things, that God will bring it to pass,  not we go make it happen in the sense of not being lead

like I might not feel like going to the store one night,  but feel very lead to just do it, and might be set up for something when I do,  Or I might be thinking I need to be here and there so that I DONT miss out and wear myself out with no fruit for any of it

its still all about being lead is what I am saying

like I have had huge miracles, then came my breast tumor , and I wrestled with God to heal me the way I was used to, this time he wanted me to trust him through surgery-this made no sense to me-it took me a year to be prepared for what he wanted me to do in my spirit, when I KNEW he could take the darn thing away in an instant.  I was mad and all kind of stuff,  but I moved forward and got healed another way, but if he had spoke to me all the way up to the operating room, I would have walked out,  My mother knows this about me, so she had it set up to have the doc call her when I was in hehe,  basically what I am saying here,  'Destiny'  decisions are made by God,  whether we go out and do this or that,  will not change his timing and his destiny,  well we can always delay things, but you get what I am saying.  I dont run around like a chicken with my head cut off chasing down blessing,  I let myself be lead by God , and the blessings are chasing me


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## aribell (Feb 8, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Rather, life in general, locked thread was only a very small example. People are more influenced by the world than they think. Transformation of the mind ...doesn't mean one suddenly becomes a walking spirit. Cultures, events change...people pick up on that and live within it. *That's why I agree with Bunny on the effects of present-day culture on marriage*.


 
Okay, point of clarification.  Are you (/you all) saying that the culture affects _our own_ _views_ of marriage which requires that we act in particular ways to counter-act that influence, or are you saying that the cultural norms affect our _chances of_ getting married, whether or not it's "God's will"?

I realize that your quote doesn't address all that, but it seems to be a question running under many of these posts.


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## Irresistible (Feb 8, 2009)

These posts got really twisted up and things came across wrong

but I do understand both viewpoints, the defense of the singles,  on the possible assumption that they feel they are incomplete for or while desiring Marriage and Ms Honey's whole main point is only to ASK THE LORD

not if you are to desire Marriage at all,  or if you are to be blessed by it or if it be his will,  but more that before you enter into relationship ASK THE LORD what he wants/wills for that specific relationship

we also must embrace our season of preparation to be a wife and to be in a marriage,  I mean there is no two ways about that,  if you want it and ask for it, be prepared for the process he has for you

I think thats also what she was saying, ask him what is holding that up, and what you need to do

she is very right on all that

I cant speak on all the other stuff, but her points in between the misunderstandings were truth

so yeah this just came to me while standing in my bathroom,  because I WASNT going to touch all that with a ten foot pole, but I got it in my spirit just now


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## Irresistible (Feb 8, 2009)

and lets not mention embracing the process 'being a wife' to a man

its all process, day in , day out

yep


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 8, 2009)

For fear of more darts thrown my way....

I agree with a lot of what Ms Honey said (just deplore the WAY it was said). There are women out there who are DESPERATE to get married. Doing anything and everything to snag a man. Often time their reason for getting married is because they "want to be complete" or "they want someone to love them." This is wrong IMO...

There are other women who desire to get married to love someone else. Not sure if folks this is right or wrong, but that's how some women feel.

Becoming and being a wife is probably the greatest challenge ever placed before a woman. Marriage and motherhood IMO are two awesome challenges women undertake. And no, marriage and motherhood is not for everyone. It is a ministry and when done according to Godly order, it is your first ministry (in comparison to children).

I totally agree that learning how to be a wife is a process. I have watched my mother do it for 36 years with my father (God love her).

Not that my private prayer life is anyone's concern, but when I pray about marriage and my future husband, my prayer is pretty simple. I pray for the protection and guidance of my husband in all that he does. Then I pray that God teaches me what I need to learn in this season of waiting. I ask him to give me wisdom and that he work on me so that when the time comes my future husband will find me a good thing and that he will cherish me like the Proverbs 31 woman.

I serve an unconventional, miracle-working, awesome God and I am not going to box Him in (based on society's or the church's standards) about how HE chooses to bless me (in any area, not just marriage). I try to live my life according to His will and commandments and I expect Him to do the rest.

Part of my knowledge of who God is to me (may not be this way with everyone) is that I can delight myself in Him and he'll give me the desires of my heart. And I can remind Him of His word and his promises to me that He has a plan for my life. He is the one that said His word (and thus His promises) will not return to Him void. 

I am to present ALL my requests to God (Philippians 4:6) with Thanksgiving and not be anxious (which I am not...for the record). See what most people fail to get is what's in verse 7 of Philippians 4:7....once I make my request known (even if I was/am anxious) all of those negative emotions are replaced with God's peace. And that peace will keep me from getting in bad relationships, because it guards my heart and mind.

So what I had to learn (and this lesson might ONLY BE FOR ME) was rather deny what I was feeling and put on a mask, I was real with God. Told him what I wanted but asked Him to guide me into what He wanted. And when I laid aside that weight and laid it at my Master's feet, I was cool. And I continue to be cool as long as I don't try to pick it up again. Trust me, I have tried to pick it up and help God out at first, but now His timing is what it is. But it doesn't mean that the desire is still not there and I'm no longer ashamed of it.

And for the record, Ms. Honey was NOT the only one misunderstood...


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## Irresistible (Feb 8, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> For fear of more darts thrown my way....
> 
> I agree with a lot of what Ms Honey said (just deplore the WAY it was said). There are women out there who are DESPERATE to get married. Doing anything and everything to snag a man. Often time their reason for getting married is because they "want to be complete" or "they want someone to love them." This is wrong IMO...
> 
> ...


Well that about wraps up this thread

and I agree with your last part, its just that I was understanding YOU all along, took me a minute to get the rest in my spirit , I guess because it was in part like you said the delivery

come on ya'll in the end we are all in the walk together, with one common goal AND LOVE


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## kayte (Feb 8, 2009)

> we are to ask and wait,


It doesn't mean being passive..




> on the other hand that we have to be out there--not developing friendships--but becoming romantically involved with various people until we happen across the one.



not mutually exclusive..

both can and do spiritually co-exist and what's more synergistically
and harmoniously.

romance... but not develop friendship?
that's a (an unhealthy) myth, I think,although some operate from this dynamic  
I also don't believe anything or anyone "happens" 

imho
the quality of man/woman friendship is the avenue for serious committed relationship....exclusivity....romance ..courtship...marriage

attraction is the trigger,perhaps ..but it's not the relationship
friendship is the significant foundation.... that's where trust is established 
and bonds form that foster a deeper feeling...

most representative in my life,anyway....


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 8, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Well that about wraps up this thread
> 
> and I agree with your last part, its just that I was understanding YOU all along, took me a minute to get the rest in my spirit , I guess because it was in part like you said the delivery
> 
> come on ya'll in the end we are all in the walk together, with one common goal AND LOVE


 

Just because some of us disagree does not mean I don't love nor walk with others. Tension is not always a bad thing. But somewhere along the way there is this perception that in order to get along you have to have similar thoughts about subjects. I'm passionate about what I believe, as are some other posters in this thread. I don't fault them for disagreeing with me...just expect the same courtesy extended to me.

As a result of this thread, I did some soul searching today. And God showed me some areas that I could trust Him more in. So this wasn't a bad thing, at least not for me.

The bible talks about wisdom in the multitude of counsel, but it doesn't say it has to be counsel of the same opinions.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 8, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Okay, point of clarification.  Are you (/you all) saying that the culture affects _our own_ _views_ of marriage which requires that we act in particular ways to counter-act that influence, or are you saying that *the cultural norms affect our chances of getting married, whether or not it's "God's will"?*
> 
> I realize that your quote doesn't address all that, but it seems to be a question running under many of these posts.



Hey.  

To further explain myself, I do believe the part that I put in bold. 

I know that there are differing opinions on God and free will out there... mine is that while God's will reigns supreme, He will not force it on you if you choose otherwise, but you will reap the consequences of your decision if it's outside His will. You will miss out on God's best for you.

In turn, your decision can negatively affect others. To me, this explains a lot of situations as to why innocent people throughout history (including Biblical history) who have done no wrong in said matters also suffer... they are the victims of others' free will.

I do believe that one main reason that we are even having this discussion in the first place is because our culture has rejected God's will for marriage, thus making many men and women less marriage-minded, and that effect has trickled down to women (and some men) who have been raised to believe in marriage and desire it -- women who years ago would have likely been married by now.

I believe in praying that God's will be done and affirmed in such circumstances, whatever the issue may be, that God's will will be restored in our lives despite the poor choices that others around us have made.


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## kayte (Feb 8, 2009)

> For fear of more darts thrown my way....
> 
> I agree with a lot of what Ms Honey said (just deplore the WAY it was said). There are women out there who are DESPERATE to get married. Doing anything and everything to snag a man. Often time their reason for getting married is because they "want to be complete" or "they want someone to love them." This is wrong IMO...
> 
> ...


 
Beautifully stated~


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## discobiscuits (Feb 8, 2009)

kayte said:


> It doesn't mean being passive..


i agree w/ that. 

I've always found that women take that passage "he who finds..." seem to have a sit and wait attitude or mentality - be passive.

It also seems that to those same women, any woman who does anything that can be construed as her looking for a man vs. the man looking is dead wrong and is violating God's plan/rules. There was a thread on that a while back. It is as if you are an ungodly heathen to even think of initiating contact with a man or putting a profile up on eharmony or similar things. 

IMHO a woman positioning herself to be found or even initiating contact with a man is not violating God's rules or messing up His plans or overriding His will with our will. 

God does not have preordained couples matched up and then *boom* there's a love connection. 

Our singles ministry (years back) had a "summit" on this very thing. The men could not understand why the women would not even come up to a man and say hi and introduce herself to him. They said that as men they are generally afraid of rejection especially if they really think that they like the girl and if she said hi first it would be an easy ice breaker. 

All I know is I refuse to be passive but I don't go running around after men. I'm approachable and I have no problem initiating contact but beyond that it is up to him to peruse me not the other way around.


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## kayte (Feb 8, 2009)

I decided to not cut the prayer on the first page 
_but I did edit it...._
to the spirit of devout singles in agreement with God

lol....sue me 

*Our dearest Shimmie's prayer  *

*Dearest Ones for whom I pray. I promised to post the marriage prayer for singles. Just be assured, with hearts like yours, God has no problem answering the desire of your heart to be married. That's what He created and designed us for. And in your prayers thank God as follows*: 

" Lord, I thank you that I will be as you have 'such' created". (This scripture you find in Ephesians 2). 

Whatever you do, allow God to be first. 

Such as, "Father, only you can give me the desire of my heart to be a wife and to give glory to you as such. I will not bow to the world but unto you." 

Dear Father, bless me as you did Hannah when she asked you for a son, you answered her prayer and blessed her with Samuel, which means, "...because I asked the Lord for him." 

Lord because "I asked", you will answer, for your word says, 'If I ask anything according to your will, you will hear me and when I know that you hear me, I can expect you to answer, 'yes'' to my request. For a happy, loving, fruitful marriage is Your will and Your will shall be done in, here on earth, in my life, as it is in Heaven.

I promise to allow my marriage to give you glory. To you I surrender all short comings that are in me and in my husband. To be the wife that you created me to be. And to allow my husband to be the man you created and designed him to be.

Father, take over my life from this day forward. To you, I surrender all. Let your will be done and not my will. 

Please protect me from all counterfeits. Please allow only the right man to come into my path and into my life to make me his wife. When he comes you will prove to me beyond a doubt that he is the one. I promise to ask you first, before I surrender my heart, allowing you to be my leader and guide in all truth.

In Jesus' name, Amen and Amen.

Angels, there is no magic pattern or prayer, you are simply putting it there in God's hands. Then let it come from Him. And it will, "Because you asked" just as Hannah did and God said, yes. 

Loving blessings and Sweet sleep to each of you. Dream of Him; the One without sin, and then the 'him' who is yet to be with you. Amen.  

I'd like to add this...

"Be not afraid, only Believe..."  

Why believe the bad, when instead 'receive the good?


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## discobiscuits (Feb 8, 2009)

i don't agree with the prayer 100% but i like this part. it sounds pretty.


> Please protect me from all counterfeits. Please allow only the right man to come into my path and into my life to make me his wife. When he comes you will prove to me beyond a doubt that he is the one. I promise to ask you first, before I surrender my heart, allowing you to be my leader and guide in all truth.


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## Shinka (Feb 8, 2009)

Thank you all the ladies for this wonderful thread. As I think I may be much younger than many of you in spirit and in the world (25) This has help me a great bit and I'm glad I was lead to read it.

I too felt that they is a sentiment ( in my life..not this board) that singles wanting marriage was bad.  I felt The whole focus on yourself and God was a way for elder women not to help me with my hearts desire. Now, I understand this in context.

It was even harder when women are taught this, but our young Christian men( i KNow) are running about in their wordly ways and no really says anything to them. Once again, the world and the church, are not encouraging them to marry. Lack of examples of healthy Christian marriages two. Often, there isn't a marriage ministry ( most churches don't have that...maybe that's part of pre marital counseling)


On day I asked my pastor why did God put this strong desire for children in my heart (i've been baby crazy since like freshmen year of college, but I desire children within a marriage). She explain to me is natural for women. we are bearers of future generations. It's part of our role as women. Now will all have this desire or ability... no, but iit's a God given part (biological and spiritually) of being a women. She quoted this from Genesis.

I think along with that is the idea that a women's desire will be for her husband. Once again, there will be those who chose to be single. But I do believe is God-given part of being a woman.

The key as many stated, is to accept that yes this is a normal desire, but work on your relationship with God as God alone will be the one to fulfill this desire in your life in His time. Relax, because these are only two of the many roles God may want you to fulfill in your life. 

What I see everyone saying is while you seek, ask, and knock ( maybe for your desires of children and marriage), don't neglect discovering, via prayer, what other plans God has for other aspects of your life. God may want you to develop those aspects first, before marriage and motherhood, or maybe in the reverse order or concurrently. We must ask God what his will is, meditate on his word, and really listen when he answers ( usually that small still voice).


Wow, this has been a very therapeutic thread for me. I will still buy the _Why men love_ books, etc because I don't think I have learned,  when I have been lead or approach by a man, how to discern his good qualities and make sure I stand strong in my convictions and not become a total doormat or ascribe values or give treatment to him that should be preserved for my husband.

I wish I was taught more about that, but I think that has a lot to due with lack of guidance from my female and male elders in my family who don't cherish marriage, and too are victims of the vicious cycle (they are devout Chrisitians too). It's sad that my generation largly isn't being directed in theses areas. As many of my Christian friends as various level of spritual understandins are having this problem. ( Bunny was very accurate in her observations and reasonings).


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## Mis007 (Feb 8, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Because you quoted my post in yours....
> 
> I'm not upset...wrong assumption (again). I feel for you and your way of interacting with fellow Christians who don't agree with you.
> 
> ...


 
_I think you should give women more credit as they often know what they want  often before they enter this thread etc, but I  have read that any mis undesrstanding has been cleared up.  Again topics such as these always gets heated because we are passionate and this is good. We all can and do learn from each and everyone just remember this when you do not agree with what  someone has posted, you may not agree but someone will and many of us is here to learn._

_Thanks..._


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 8, 2009)

Ladies please let me say this and understand it's not to be purposely offensive. I said what I said *EXACTLY* the way I said it *EXACTLY* the way I *MEANT* to say it. If someone was offended by what I said then that's on them, deploring it or not. 
I do not post to make anyone feel bad or good about what I say. The Word can be offensive to those who don't want to hear it. Whether it's accepted or rejected is up to the hearer. Alot of words have been added to what I said but that's to be expected by some. Again, it was not to offend but it is what it is.


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## Irresistible (Feb 8, 2009)

arr1216 said:


> Just because some of us disagree does not mean I don't love nor walk with others. Tension is not always a bad thing. But somewhere along the way there is this perception that in order to get along you have to have similar thoughts about subjects. I'm passionate about what I believe, as are some other posters in this thread. I don't fault them for disagreeing with me...just expect the same courtesy extended to me.
> 
> As a result of this thread, I did some soul searching today. And God showed me some areas that I could trust Him more in. So this wasn't a bad thing, at least not for me.
> 
> The bible talks about wisdom in the multitude of counsel, but it doesn't say it has to be counsel of the same opinions.


I'm lost

like I'm not sure what your even defending from my post now-I never said any of this wasnt good,  I never said anything about any of this at all

I said I understood you and your points,  so whats left to defend or explain? I get it


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## hopeful (Feb 8, 2009)

Ms. Honey, I can only speak for myself.  The only thing I found offensive was when you said: "You need to learn how to read and then try practicing comprehension."  I thought that was disrespectful and not a very kind way to speak to arr1216.  Everything else you said as far as I can remember was very helpful and thoughtful.


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## Irresistible (Feb 8, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Ladies please let me say this and understand it's not to be purposely offensive. I said what I said *EXACTLY* the way I said it *EXACTLY* the way I *MEANT* to say it. If someone was offended by what I said then that's on them, deploring it or not.
> I do not post to make anyone feel bad or good about what I say. The Word can be offensive to those who don't want to hear it. Whether it's accepted or rejected is up to the hearer. Alot of words have been added to what I said but that's to be expected by some. Again, it was not to offend but it is what it is.



Ms Honey , you already know when you dish out a word , and you do have the capability of delivering it straight -no chaser,  with your feeling behind it coming from a somewhat -stern' point of view.  You know it can feel like for  some that its like  choking on that truth, its like 'GASP' at first,  but still some will be able to receive it and get it in their spirit.  

alot of 'extra' defending went on after that,  I understood that too, and why, but I understand your straight-no-chaser delivery, as you have dished it up to me that way on another matter,  it was like 'CHOKE'  oh my,  let me chew this and digest it cause it was hard to swallow,  but it was indeed well received and indeed was a blessing unto me

and I thank you for that forever


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## hopeful (Feb 8, 2009)

Shinka, thank you for your beautiful post. You broke it down sweetie, you may be young in age, but you are not young in spirit.

I have a question for the ladies who have a church they attend regularly. I think FoxyScholar touched on it briefly in her testimony. How do you look at the older women in your church who are not married? The ladies who are say 50 and older. Why do you believe they never married? Do you admire them as much as you do the married women? Do you believe they did something wrong or never alligned themselves with God? Have you ever spoken to them to see their thoughts? Do you believe they were just unlucky in love? I am just curious. Do the women seem to be fulfilled and satisfied with their lives? Do you think they still will get married some day?


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## PaperClip (Feb 8, 2009)

hopeful said:


> Shinka, thank you for your beautiful post. You broke it down sweetie, you may be young in age, but you are not young in spirit.
> 
> I have a question for the ladies who have a church they attend regularly. I think FoxyScholar touched on it briefly in her testimony. How do you look at the older women in your church who are not married? The ladies who are say 50 and older. Why do you believe they never married? Do you admire them as much as you do the married women? Do you believe they did something wrong or never alligned themselves with God? Have you ever spoken to them to see their thoughts? Do you believe they were just unlucky in love? I am just curious. Do the women seem to be fulfilled and satisfied with their lives? Do you think they still will get married some day?


 
I've been in church my entire life. I was the "church girl" amongst my friends. I say that to say I've seen a lot growing up and my parents did a good job in balancing me out between church and other activities. It was no question that I was going to go to college and all that. I also grew up in a home with two loving married parents and clearly expected to be married and happy and all that.

My first memory of noticing singles as church is when I was about 17-18 years old and I recall an announcement for the singles at church to meet for a meeting. I wasn't going to the meeting but I recall passing by the pews where the singles were sitting and most of them (mostly women) did not look happy. Their faces looked absent, or mean, or sad, or... I don't know. But right then I thought "I DO NOT want to look or be that way".

So fast forward to the church I've attended pretty much my whole adult life and I noticed two things: 1) the way the church treated the single people: like they were not complete. The singles did not seem to get the same level of attention or position. And 2) the way some of the singles looked themselves: down, looked like they were barely hanging on. I think some of the singles that did look relatively happy were getting some on the side look....

From what I can tell, it seemed that most of the single women had been married and divorced or widowed, or that they had never been married but had relationships and either the relationships broke up when they got saved or they simply didn't work out. Some of these women have been married more than once.

I think some of them get fulfillment in a variety of ways, like we all should, but there's that longing for companionship. I long for companionship, too. There may be some younger women who look at me and don't want to "end up like me", either. That makes me very sad because I have a wonderful life and have so many opportunities. It makes me feel like I am deficient or inadequate. Even reading some of these posts and even on this board. Like because I've reached this certain age and I'm not yet married that I must be a mutant or worse, unworthy of marriage. That's why I have to be very careful to make sure to lift up my eyes unto the hills. From whence cometh my help? My help cometh from the Lord, Creator of heaven and earth.

There was one particular thread that cut me very deep on this point...that I should be ashamed that my parents contribute to my life at this age. If only they knew the whole story...my Good Lord....


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## Irresistible (Feb 8, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I've been in church my entire life. I was the "church girl" amongst my friends. I say that to say I've seen a lot growing up and my parents did a good job in balancing me out between church and other activities. It was no question that I was going to go to college and all that. I also grew up in a home with two loving married parents and clearly expected to be married and happy and all that.
> 
> My first memory of noticing singles as church is when I was about 17-18 years old and I recall an announcement for the singles at church to meet for a meeting. I wasn't going to the meeting but I recall passing by the pews where the singles were sitting and most of them (mostly women) did not look happy. Their faces looked absent, or mean, or sad, or... I don't know. But right then I thought "I DO NOT want to look or be that way".
> 
> ...



I saw that thread and I find it a disgrace the judgments others have the nerve to let be in their hearts

ur right where you should be and right where God wants you and you are blessed! 

eta , it matters not who knows your story , God knows!!! Thats all that matters!! He knows!!


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## hopeful (Feb 8, 2009)

Thank you so much FoxyScholar.  I have gone to church off and on, but never steadily year after year so I was just curious.  Dh and I recently joined a church and I just noticed that our little family seems to get more attention than some.  Sometimes the singles seem almost invisible.  And some of the women do seem sad and lonely.  But I don't know them well and don't know their stories.  IRL I tend to gravitate to married women because it seems we have more in common.


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## hopeful (Feb 8, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> I saw that thread and I find it a disgrace the judgments others have the nerve to let be in their hearts
> 
> *ur right where you should be and right where God wants you and you are blessed!*


 
ITA, you are blessed to have loving, supportive parents.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 8, 2009)

Shinka, thank you for your post. It was awesome.

Okay, now... VERY long post ahead... 

I know I kind of touched on this earlier in this thread, but what you said makes me feel the need to expound on this. I am very bothered by the fact that so many of us young Christian singles have had the same experience -- one that I feel is often negative -- when we have reached out to our elders regarding the subject of marriage.

I know this is the Christian forum, but I think it needs to be mentioned that if this thread was being read by members of other Abrahamic faiths (Judaism and Islam), they would look at it like it was some type of two-headed monster. Actually, if this discussion was taking place in Christian circles say, 50 years ago, people would be absolutely baffled that "getting married" was being discussed in this manner.

The idea of asking God if one is supposed to marry or the idea of telling a young woman of marriage age that marriage might not be God's will for her has NO historical or cultural currency and until maybe about 50 years ago, it had no religious currency either.

Marriage has always been seen as a natural, expected and obligatory part of transitioning into adulthood. Basically, you were born, you experienced childhood, you went to school, you became an adult, you got married and you had children. End of discussion. (Sometimes you got married before you became an adult.) 

This was not up for debate and this was not something that families, communities OR religious institutions left up to chance. All of these groups recognized that marriage provided the foundation for their societies, and that marriage and family were the vehicles in which cultures reinforced and passed down their traditions and ways of life. Marriage also provided protection for women, and part of a parent's DUTY was to make sure that their children, ESPECIALLY their daughters, married well. If their daughters were unmarried by a certain age, THEY were seen as being neglectful of their duties as parents... and if their sons remained unmarried, they were seen as immature, underdeveloped beings who were thwarting their calling as men to take a wife and raise children. 

I find it very interesting reading posts from some of our members of other faiths or cultures in the OT forum. They did not go through life wondering if they were going to be married. They knew that they would, and if it took them "too long" to be married, then their families would step in and make sure that they found a man for them to marry. There was no such thing as wondering if it was God's will or having to ask God if they were supposed to be single or how they could remain content alone. That would be considered a ludicrous idea. Of COURSE she was going to get married, unless there was some very extraordinary reason that she wouldn't be. 

Indian parents in the US put personal ads for their kids in newspapers. A group of Muslim families in California are planning parties to bring their children together to meet for marriage, because they found that word of mouth wasn't working in their small community. Jewish families see matchmakers when their kids remain unmarried too long -- the matchmaker has had a revered place in Jewish tradition throughout history. Some African sistas I know (who are Christian) said that if they wanted to get married, they could call an auntie right now and be married by the end of the week. Families, friends, communities, CHURCHES (temples, mosques, whatever) ALL work together to ensure that the children of their group marry well because they recognize the primacy of marriage as the proven way to ensure their legacy, way of life and provide stability for the community.

Meanwhile, many of us in Protestant Christian denominations over the last 50 years can't seem to find the forest for the trees. I almost expect 1 Corinthians 7 to be unleashed during these discussions as the "proof" that not all are meant to be married and that one should learn contentment in singleness. My belief is that the passage was originally used by churches to provide hope for singles once cultural values began shifting from expected marriage to this "whatever" attitude, but now, folks wield it like a weapon. 1 Corininthians 7 has been in existence since the beginning of Christendom, but obviously, it was not being used up until this very recent era to provide a possible argument against marriage for women who find themselves single longer than expected. 

It is a shame that too many young Christian women who seek help in the marriage arena are given the run-around by her own family members and church leaders, while I know my Jewish friends can seek a rabbi's help and he/she will get to work instantly in helping them find a husband and my Muslim friends can do the same with their Imams. The Mormons and Catholics and certain other Christians I know also will have a network of people working on their behalf to ensure that they marry.

It is no accident and no coincidence that the groups of people with the most stable communities in the United States are the ones that place a high emphasis on marriage. It is also no accident that the communities in the most turmoil in the United States are the ones that do NOT stress marriage and do not work as groups to ensure that their younger members marry well.

History -- including Biblical history -- firmly falls on the side of marriage. Nearly every major religion including Christianity also falls firmly on the side of marriage. This has been true since the beginning of history and remains true today, despite the fact that man has complicated something that has always been very simple and a normal part of maturity.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 8, 2009)

hopeful said:


> Shinka, thank you for your beautiful post. You broke it down sweetie, you may be young in age, but you are not young in spirit.
> 
> I have a question for the ladies who have a church they attend regularly. I think FoxyScholar touched on it briefly in her testimony. How do you look at the older women in your church who are not married? The ladies who are say 50 and older. Why do you believe they never married? Do you admire them as much as you do the married women? Do you believe they did something wrong or never alligned themselves with God? Have you ever spoken to them to see their thoughts? Do you believe they were just unlucky in love? I am just curious. Do the women seem to be fulfilled and satisfied with their lives? Do you think they still will get married some day?


 
Most of the sisters past 40 that I know in my church who are single were once married, divorced and decided not to remarry and enjoy an uninterrupted time of fellowship with the Lord. They say they don't feel lonely and a BIG part of it is that they don't want to have to answer to, be submitted to a husband EVER again, been there done that They want to go when they want to, buy what they want to buy without having to check with a man first. Most had children and divorced before getting saved.
A few never married and don't want to because of the above They say they don't feel like they are missing out on anything. One does want to remarry and is currently fellowshipping with someone. They have children.
One of my girlfriends from church told me the Lord told her that she couldn't remarry. She has 2 children.
One sister is widowed and said she wasn't ready to stop being Mrs. So and So. I think it's been about 15 years since her DH passed. They don't have children.
I have another girlfriend at church who is my age 42 and has decided not to marry because of the submitting thing. Once she got her flesh under submission she was like, "Naw, that's ok. I'll stick to fellowshipping." She has no children.
One sister was divorced before salvation. She got saved joined the church was doing good and then entered into an ungodly relationship. She married without the benefit of premarital class, rejected warnings from me and others, even some ministers and married anyway. She and her DH divorced a few years back and she returned to our church. I don't know if the Lord will allow her to remarry or if she even wants to. She has one child.


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## kayte (Feb 8, 2009)

Ancillary...another viewpoint on to be Content to be Alone  


*Life-coaching tip on finding true love:*

"Fall in Love with Your Life" -- 

Fall in love with yourself first. Create a life that is so rich and full and wonderful, you won't care if you're partnered right now or not (that alone is an attractor) and your rich, full, wonderful life will draw all sorts of interesting people (Ms. or Mr. Right among them) into your world.
Victoria Moran..


IMHO....
"won't care" = euphemism for....you won't be upset or you won't mind ...
and I would also add.._fall in love with God first_......and then one's SELF


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 8, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> I'm lost
> 
> like I'm not sure what your even defending from my post now-I never said any of this wasnt good,  I never said anything about any of this at all
> 
> I said I understood you and your points,  so whats left to defend or explain? I get it




I'm not defending simply responding to the part where you said about walking in love. And all I'm saying is that just because we don't agree with some points doesn't mean I don't walk in love. Not saying that you said that, but simply stating it....


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 8, 2009)

hopeful said:


> Shinka, thank you for your beautiful post. You broke it down sweetie, you may be young in age, but you are not young in spirit.
> 
> I have a question for the ladies who have a church they attend regularly. I think FoxyScholar touched on it briefly in her testimony. How do you look at the older women in your church who are not married? The ladies who are say 50 and older. Why do you believe they never married? Do you admire them as much as you do the married women? Do you believe they did something wrong or never alligned themselves with God? Have you ever spoken to them to see their thoughts? Do you believe they were just unlucky in love? I am just curious. Do the women seem to be fulfilled and satisfied with their lives? Do you think they still will get married some day?



There really are no women in my church that have never been married. They are either divorced or widowers. I know of a couple of women in the community that have never married. They said it was their choice and it wasn't from a lack of suitors.

Celibacy and/or being single is also a spiritual gift for some, not just a current season in their lives.. There are people that I believe are equipped by God to not be married. Do I think they are anymore gifted than I am to have a full and vibrant single life? No, not really. But I think my understanding is that the desire isn't even really there either.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 8, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Shinka, thank you for your post. It was awesome.
> 
> Okay, now... VERY long post ahead...
> 
> ...



I completely and totally agree with this....

I think more often than not your experiences really color how you see marriage. For me, all I've seen is marriage, so I expect that to be a part of my legacy that I leave on Earth. They went through good and bad times, but I saw what a real and successful relationships looks like. My extended family (my mom's cousins) however has really struggled in this area. I am hard pressed to find a successful relationship, let alone marriage, in that family. And that has been passed on to their children (who are my age). I feel that unless you are conscious about breaking any negative patterns, it can become a generational cycle.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 8, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I've been in church my entire life. I was the "church girl" amongst my friends. I say that to say I've seen a lot growing up and my parents did a good job in balancing me out between church and other activities. It was no question that I was going to go to college and all that. I also grew up in a home with two loving married parents and clearly expected to be married and happy and all that.
> 
> My first memory of noticing singles as church is when I was about 17-18 years old and I recall an announcement for the singles at church to meet for a meeting. I wasn't going to the meeting but I recall passing by the pews where the singles were sitting and most of them (mostly women) did not look happy. Their faces looked absent, or mean, or sad, or... I don't know. But right then I thought "I DO NOT want to look or be that way".
> 
> ...



Wow I'm sorry to hear that. I'm extremely close to my parents and they are an integral part of my life. But the longer I live the more I realize that there are quite a few people who have really bad relationships with their parents. I have no concept of not talking to my parents for over a week, let alone weeks or months.

That's truly a shame....


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## hopeful (Feb 8, 2009)

Bunny:  You are soooo smart. I loved your post.

Ms.Honey, Thanks for you reply about the single women in your church, that was very enlightening.



kayte said:


> Ancillary...another viewpoint on to be Content to be Alone
> 
> 
> *Life-coaching tip on finding true love:*
> ...


 
I think this is interesting. But sometimes I wonder can you create such a full, rich life that you have little room for romance and the compromises that come with a relationship? You are doing all of these wonderful things and have all of these wonderful relationships...Could it be possible that there is no room left for a man? Just thinking out loud because I always tell people to try to live fully too.

At church today my minister spoke about marriage and how husbands and wives should communicate--it was a beautiful service. He said that people need to understand that marriage is not just about sex and companionship that it is also a ministry, that in a good marriage husbands and wives minister to each other and help each other heal from whatever is wounded within them. My point is that some couples come together to heal, so their deepest healing and fullest life comes from their union (they cannot do it alone).


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 8, 2009)

hopeful said:


> Bunny:  You are soooo smart. I loved your post.
> 
> Ms.Honey, Thanks for you reply about the single women in your church, that was very enlightening.
> 
> ...



I agree with this....


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## inthepink (Feb 8, 2009)

It's all so confusing.

You're told to keep busy so you won't think about being single and hopefully in one of those activities maybe you'll meet someone.

Then you're told, don't be so busy that you don't have time to date.

It just seems singles are never doing the right thing.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 8, 2009)

hopeful said:


> Bunny:  You are soooo smart. I loved your post.
> 
> Ms.Honey, Thanks for you reply about the single women in your church, that was very enlightening.
> 
> ...



Aww... thanks.  

Regarding living a full life... one of my favorite writers on this subject, Candice Watters, frequently talks about this and hits on exactly your point as well.

She wrote...

*"Even women who deeply desire marriage find themselves pouring themselves into their life as a single woman with little thought or planning for their future as a married one. They're hard at work on their careers and financial goals--their "Plan B" as many call it--just in case Plan A is delayed or never happens. It's understandable, and in our culture, praised, to make the most of your singleness. The problem is that Plan A requires moving toward oneness--interdependence--with another person in marriage. Plan B finds you becoming increasingly independent so you don't need another person. It's easy to see how actively investing in B could undermine A. (p.139)"*


I've thought about this a lot. I definitely encourage singles to live a full life as well (and I do), but I've stepped back from a few things and been more thoughtful about ways I fill my free time. I ask myself in these situations, "Am I adding this activity JUST to fill a void? Will adding this take away from time that I could be spending cultivating relationships?" 

I also notice that women who lecture/write/preach often about living an awesome and amazing single life "in the meantime" often stay single.  

To me, I can't help but think that one is influencing the other without them realizing this.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 8, 2009)

hairlove said:


> It's all so confusing.
> 
> You're told to keep busy so you won't think about being single and hopefully in one of those activities maybe you'll meet someone.
> 
> ...



Here's what I think you should do. Seek out activities that you enjoy, where it doesn't seem like you're just "keeping busy" to keep busy.

For example, I signed up to run a marathon to raise money for cancer research this year. This has been an excellent thing for me because it accomplishes three things.

1. I get to exercise in a way that is enjoyable for me, because I really really really like running.
2. I am working for a good cause and feel good that my fundraising will help others.
3. I get to meet other people for friendship, and our group has social outings in addition to running. 

By the time this is over (late June), I will leave it having been enriched in multiple ways by the process, and hopefully, I will have made some wonderful new friends (men and women). Now, do I think that maybe I might meet someone with mate potential through this? Absolutely!    But if I don't, that's okay because my main goal in this is completing the marathon. This activity won't keep me too busy to date and it won't isolate me either from meeting new people.

Hope that helps.


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## hopeful (Feb 8, 2009)

^^^Very interesting Bunny.  For years I've heard people say a man can't complete you and you need to be whole first etc.  But my husband and I did complete each other.  It was as though he was my gift from God to help heal the broken pieces in my soul.  And I've healed so much in him as well through the years.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 8, 2009)

hopeful said:


> Bunny:  You are soooo smart. I loved your post.
> 
> Ms.Honey, Thanks for you reply about the single women in your church, that was very enlightening.
> 
> ...


 

Marriage is definitely a ministry. It is a lot of hard work.
I love my husband but he does not complete me, he does not heal me and he does not make my life fulfilling nor do I do these things for my DH. That's Jesus' job. DH and I experience these blessings through each other because of each others personal relationship with Jesus. I benefit from his with Him and he is a benefactor of mine with Him. If DH and I were to divorce, Jesus would STILL provide the same things but by a different method. If I had never married Jesus would STILL do these things for me.

 I think alot of women confuse the work of the Lord THROUGH their husbands as the work OF their husbands and vice versa. I also think that a lot of singles confuse the longing for the Lord as the longing for a husband. Dh is just the vessel the Lord chose to use because I was already married and vice versa. I love him but he does not complete me because he CAN NOT complete me, only Jesus is able to do that. I really am complete in Him.

Many women are content in their single lives and do not want to marry, some do. Some are divorced or widowed and do not want to remarry and some do, still content. Many women have been told by the Lord that they are not to marry for various reasons and STILL live content lives. Many women are content in their married lives. 

The point of the initial prayer was no matter what state you're currently in, be content. Gain ever little ounce and drop out of that state before you progress to the next or you'll end up longing for the last state.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 8, 2009)

hairlove said:


> It's all so confusing.
> 
> You're told to keep busy so you won't think about being single and hopefully in one of those activities maybe you'll meet someone.
> 
> ...


 
God has a plan for your life, a specific plan. Your plan is not the same as mine and mine is not the same as yours that's why it's important to ask God what does HE wants for your life. 

You don't have to forget about being single. There is nothing wrong with being single. For some reason some folks think it's a lesser state of being that needs to be departed in order to be happy and fulfilled and it's not. You can be fulfilled, content and enjoy your life if you remain single for the rest of your life and you can be fulfilled, content and enjoy your life if you remain married, separated, divorced or widowed for the rest of your life. No state is better than the other and no state is worse. But whatever state you are in learn to be content.


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## kayte (Feb 9, 2009)

> I  But sometimes I wonder can you create such a full, rich life that you have little room for romance and the compromises that come with a relationship? You are doing all of these wonderful things and have all of these wonderful relationships...Could it be possible that there is no room left for a man? Just thinking out loud because I always tell people to try to live fully too.



it's all about BALANCE..PRIORITIES AND MEN WHO ARE UNDERSTANDING  
AND SUPPORTIVE



> You're told to keep busy so you won't think about being single and hopefully in one of those activities maybe you'll meet someone.
> Then you're told, don't be so busy that you don't have time to date.
> It just seems singles are never doing the right thing.



don't be discouraged..you have to set your own standards and barometer
trying to live by the world's compass or expectation is ..*&^&^%
living in harmony with God ..helps me stay balanced and anticipating..moreof life   

I get so excited about my life I don't want to go to bed! that's being _involved _fully in one's world very very different  than "keeping busy"




> My point is that some couples come together to heal so without each other their deepest healing and fullest life comes from their union (they cannot do it alone).



I disagree... I think this is a dangerous premise




> Even women who deeply desire marriage find themselves pouring themselves into their life as a single woman with little thought or planning for their future as a married one. They're hard at work on their careers and financial goals--their "Plan B" as many call it--just in case Plan A is delayed or never happens. It's understandable, and in our culture, praised, to make the most of your singleness. The problem is that Plan A requires moving toward oneness--interdependence--with another person in marriage. Plan B finds you becoming increasingly independent so you don't need another person. It's easy to see how actively investing in B could undermine A. (p.139)"



I think this is not a fair composite ..it's a biased sketch of 
one type of woman....

any energy that dominates all else to the point of 
exclusion of all else is also NOT healthy 

this represents only one type of woman among many single types of women



> I've thought about this a lot. I definitely encourage singles to live a full life as well (and I do), but I've stepped back from a few things and been more thoughtful about ways I fill my free time. I ask myself in these situations, "Am I adding this activity JUST to fill a void? Will adding this take away from time that I could be spending cultivating relationships?"



_filling a void is something no one should do_....single or married..

There's a misconception about what leading a full life means
and the notion that being autononmous as woman  precludes 
or is an obstacle in the desire or capacity for a couplehood is false
Love of God, _a balanced _full life  love of self which includes
relationships... solitude.... enterprise ....ambition etc etc 
_opens opportunities_...not ..blocks them 

I found the most times I was engaged in meaningful relationships
was not on the internet ...I do that as one means to access guys
while I am still in seclusion... but leading/living my life...  
.... men ..who were also leading involved happy lives...interesected with me naturally..organically...

it's been harder for me personally because my father died 
and I've had a harder time being out there ...
but that is my truth 
when I am happy balanced ..in my element..autonomous...
the men can't stay away..

autonomy doesn't mean I cant love...it doesnt mean I am not capable of receiving love
or opening..to the idea of marriage 
what it does mean.... is that I have _greater capacity _to make room in my life 
because I attended to caring for me first and set the bar to be treated accordingly ... 


for the record Victoria Moran is an author with an impressive track record of several inspirational books... is a speaker and guested on Oprah..

and I happen to know her personally. 

She's featured hired as the new Life Coach with her online blog 
on Beliefnet... 

she was living in Kansas
and had ambitious dreams that I had the privilege of watching come to 
fruition so yah! she's a role model 
one of those autonomous spritual strong ambitious
women that I aspire after 





> I also notice that women who lecture/write/preach often about living an awesome and amazing single life "in the meantime" often stay single.




and 
she did not stay single... 
she's married..




> Fall in love with yourself first. Create a life that is so rich and full and wonderful, you won't care if you're partnered right now or not (that alone is an attractor) and your rich, full, wonderful life will draw all sorts of interesting people (Ms. or Mr. Right among them) into your world.
> Victoria Moran..



she knows what she's talking about


----------



## aribell (Feb 9, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Hey.
> 
> To further explain myself, I do believe the part that I put in bold.
> 
> ...


 
Hi. : )  I think the bolded makes a particularly good point that gets to the heart of why it is we are able to pray in faith believing the the Lord will grant our request for a husband, since His power is for the miraculous, for making deserts blossom and manna fall from heaven.  If need be, He can make a godly man fall from heaven as well. 

As long as Christian women (and particularly black Christian women) don't look at the problems in society and all the bad statistics and start thinking that that somehow means that it's "less likely" that they get married, then we can be mindful of negative patterns without becoming discouraged by them.  I think if an individual Christian woman seeks the Lord's will over her life and makes her requests known to Him, _while making wise and healthy decisions_, then nothing that is going on in society is going to matter ultimately.  He's either going to answer that prayer or He will not.  

_But, _like the quote says, we do have to be mindful of the ways in which we are acting contrary to marriage and participating in a system set against it, otherwise we'll just continue to be a part of the problem.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 9, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Hi. : )  I think the bolded makes a particularly good point that gets to the heart of why it is we are able to pray in faith believing the the Lord will grant our request for a husband, since His power is for the miraculous, for making deserts blossom and manna fall from heaven.  If need be, He can make a godly man fall from heaven as well.
> 
> As long as Christian women (and particularly black Christian women) don't look at the problems in society and all the bad statistics and start thinking that that somehow means that it's "less likely" that they get married, then we can be mindful of negative patterns without becoming discouraged by them.  I think if an individual Christian woman seeks the Lord's will over her life and makes her requests known to Him, _while making wise and healthy decisions_, then nothing that is going on in society is going to matter ultimately.  He's either going to answer that prayer or He will not.
> 
> _But, _like the quote says, we do have to be mindful of the ways in which we are acting contrary to marriage and participating in a system set against it, otherwise we'll just continue to be a part of the problem.




Hey, you said it better than I did!


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## kayte (Feb 9, 2009)

> you need to be whole first etc.


completely believe this
for me


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## PaperClip (Feb 9, 2009)

When I was about 17-18 years old, I loved myself so much. I was a First Class Brat and my life was great! I was on my way to college. Confident, had a good, solid upbringing, looking forward to life. First semester of college, met my first love... yeah, he broke my heart in the end but it was my smile and personality that won him over. And when he first started pursuing me, it was so fun and I was having a great time just hanging out with him and other college classmates....

BTW: I did tell my first love that I wanted to wait until marriage before sex. He said he could wait... maybe it was too big of a promise.... maybe he really tried to keep it but he couldn't hold out. He was only 19 years old and not saved.... 

But I digress....

But then I gave my life over to the Lord fully and wanted to live for the Lord and I did for a time... but then the pressure started about marriage. I had graduated from undergrad. Wasn't interested in getting married at 22, 23 years old. But then the pressure started... it was very subtle at first. I had been dating but the guys I was dating were not in the church. The church guys bored me because they were not at my level of intellect (no diss, just being honest) or they were already married. This church didn't have that many single brothers (sigh). And the guys in the world I was dating liked me but the no-sex thing deterred them from pursuing anything.

This same pattern continued over the years. The pressure mounted. I didn't know how to fix it or change it. The church said "honor the Lord. Be found in the church doing the work of the Lord". And that's what I did. I thought my husband would walk up to me and say "here I am!".... But that didn't happen... and the pressure... and the disappointment... and the let-downs... and the food.... I couldn't stop the downward spiral....

So I posted my testimony upthread. I'm in the rebuilding stage. I'll graduate with my doctorate this summer/fall and applying for university professorships ACROSS THE GLOBE.... I'm on my way to LIVING AGAIN.... And allowing the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me and position me where I (the good thing that I am) can be found. And in between my studies, I am going places and doing things and getting a little bit of fun in. And yet the Lord's thoughts of me are good (Jeremiah 29:11).

I NOW recognize that I had to sacrifice (part of) my social life for my academics. That's one reason I say this time has not been unproductive. I've got something to show and I've gote something (big) to bring to the table. Me. I've got a lot going on for good.... Glory to God....


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## kayte (Feb 9, 2009)

> When I was about 17-18 years old, I loved myself so much. I was a First Class Brat






> But I digress....


digress? 
_totally lovely lady _

Foxy ..re-read what I said....Falling in Love with God and self
I know that's what the author meant 

narcissim and ego and adolescence are VERY different than what's being stated 
quote my post...lol...but please not out of context


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## aribell (Feb 9, 2009)

About single church women:

I can recall only one woman who I believe had never been married (aside from all the nuns who used to teach me) and I think that in the context of that church and how I knew her, I think as a child I assumed that she had made a decision to be single, that it was a vocation of hers.  She was not a nice person, though, and for some reason when I was young I associated that with her singleness.

I know another woman not in my church, though she does attend one, who is approaching 50 and has never been married, though she is currently in a good relationship.  She is a friend of my mothers, and I'll admit that it just seemed somewhat odd to me.  There was always that question, "Well why didn't anything ever work out for her?  What's wrong?," since she was looking for a good relationship.  That was probably unfair, but it was from the perspective of a young person.



hopeful said:


> I think this is interesting. But sometimes I wonder can you create such a full, rich life that you have little room for romance and the compromises that come with a relationship? You are doing all of these wonderful things and have all of these wonderful relationships...Could it be possible that there is no room left for a man? Just thinking out loud because I always tell people to try to live fully too.


 
I'm learning that you have to prioritize relationships, just like everything else.  I've always been one to say that I'm too busy right now, and even when I stopped saying I'm too busy and said I'd make room, I really am too busy anyway.  You can have a _busy mentality_ even if you are constantly surrounded by people.  It is possible to be surrounded day and night with eligible men but not be in the right frame of mind to develop anything with them.  If you're only really present to your schedule and your exciting full life, then you can miss just being present to the people around you and not develop those relationships that lead to something.

That's my lesson at least.


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## kayte (Feb 9, 2009)

Originally Posted by kayte  
Ancillary...another viewpoint on to be Content to be Alone 




> Life-coaching tip on finding true love:
> 
> "Fall in Love with Your Life" --
> 
> ...


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## PaperClip (Feb 9, 2009)

I FELL OUT OF LOVE WITH MYSELF (and with THE LORD) BECAUSE I ALLOWED THE CHURCH AND SOCIETY TO MAKE ME FEEL INADEQUATE AND DEFICIENT BECAUSE I WASN'T MARRIED AND WHEN I DID WHAT THE CHURCH AND SOCIETY AND EVERYBODY ELSE TOLD ME TO DO IN ORDER TO GET MARRIED AND THAT DIDN'T WORK EITHER, THAT ONLY MADE ME FEEL EVEN WORSE AND I WAS SO DISGUSTED WITH MYSELF THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE!

And all of the above impacted my relationship with the Lord.... I had begun kicking God and church to the curb. But He didn't let that happen. So the rebuilding includes rebuilding my relationship with the Lord and seeing myself in a new way... the true way that the Lord sees me.


(all caps because I'm SHOUTING out of frustration of being MISUNDERSTOOD AGAIN!!!!!)

***plus I had a bad day at church and I did something really bad and I feel so guilty and I need to be studying RIGHT NOW and everything is seeming to pile up***


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## kayte (Feb 9, 2009)

> all caps because I'm SHOUTING out of frustration of being MISUNDERSTOOD AGAIN!!!!!)
> 
> ***plus I had a bad day at church and I did something really bad and I feel so guilty and I need to be studying RIGHT NOW and everything is seeming to pile up***



I heard it all the way in NY!!!!
we sometimes forget emails are ripe to make misunderstanding easy
it'll be okay....

Ok... the online care package for you
All for you....beloved....
:blowkiss:


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## hopeful (Feb 9, 2009)

FoxyScholar . Have a good night's sleep and a wonderful week. I completely got your point. I remember my freshman year in college as well, ahh good times, good times.

ETA: I've really enjoyed talking with you ladies.  Got a busy week next week so I probably won't be back to post much in this thread.  To all the single ladies: I send you much love and pray you meet the one who makes your heart soar.  All of you are so lovely.


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## kayte (Feb 9, 2009)

> BECAUSE I ALLOWED THE CHURCH AND SOCIETY TO MAKE ME FEEL INADEQUATE AND DEFICIENT BECAUSE I WASN'T MARRIED AND WHEN I DID WHAT THE CHURCH AND SOCIETY AND EVERYBODY ELSE TOLD ME TO DO IN ORDER TO GET MARRIED AND THAT DIDN'T WORK EITHER, THAT ONLY MADE ME FEEL EVEN WORSE AND I WAS SO DISGUSTED WITH MYSELF THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE!



and it's turned around...
you are very courageous....thank you for sharing


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## discobiscuits (Feb 9, 2009)

*whispers stop yelling*  FS, who misunderstood you? I know that I didn't & I'm usually the 1st one who would(LOL).  I'm just glad that you did not give into the pressure and discouragement and let it kill you. Congrats on the doctorate.


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## PaperClip (Feb 9, 2009)

1star said:


> *whispers stop yelling* FS, who misunderstood you? I know that I didn't & I'm usually the 1st one who would(LOL). I'm just glad that you did not give into the pressure and discouragement and let it kill you. Congrats on the doctorate.


 
 my apologies... apologies all around.... been VERY transparent in this thread. I need to practice restraint.

Appreciate the patience from everyone.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Peace.....


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## discobiscuits (Feb 9, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> ***plus I had a bad day at church and* I did something really bad and I feel so guilty* and I need to be studying RIGHT NOW and everything is seeming to pile up***


whoops I missed that! hhmmmmm repent, relax, relate, release....LOL *sorry* trying to make u laugh go study u need to for the doctorate!


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## Mis007 (Feb 9, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> God has a plan for your life, a specific plan. Your plan is not the same as mine and mine is not the same as yours that's why it's important to ask God what does HE wants for your life.
> 
> You don't have to forget about being single. There is nothing wrong with being single. _*For some reason some folks think it's a lesser state of being that needs to be departed in order to be happy and fulfilled and it's not.*_ You can be fulfilled, content and enjoy your life if you remain single for the rest of your life and you can be fulfilled, content and enjoy your life if you remain married, separated, divorced or widowed for the rest of your life. No state is better than the other and no state is worse. But whatever state you are in learn to be content.


 
_ I am fulfilled and content in my single state,  so I can just imagine what my married state would be like..._ 




Bunny77 said:


> Shinka, thank you for your post. It was awesome.
> 
> Okay, now... VERY long post ahead...
> 
> ...


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 9, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> my apologies... apologies all around.... been VERY transparent in this thread. I need to practice restraint.
> 
> Appreciate the patience from everyone.
> 
> ...


 

I'm a PK and I relate to your sentiments more than you can possibly know!


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## kayte (Feb 9, 2009)

> I completely got your point.I remember my freshman year in college as well, ahh good times, good times.



I get the idea of early years or stages in our lives existing and having a unique voice in a woman’s development!

I’m confused what that has to do with what the author is referring to in the here and now.. a mature balanced woman living a joyous full life  and as a by product of that, fosters an environment to committed married love...
these are very encouraging words..from a woman who has "walked her talk"

If you asked yourself what loving yourself meant at eight years old ..it’s probably going to be a lot different than what the author is referring to…n.o.w
And while earlier life experiences  coalesce they don’t necessarily correlate ...which is what I mean by context....

It’s not even like comparing apples and oranges..it’s more like comparing 
Apples and say….a Big Mac 

while maybe our paths diverge on what resonates for us as single women in idea of marriage...



> pray you meet the one who makes your heart soar



Standing in agreement


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 9, 2009)

Ok, now that we've discussed the plight of unsaved women, historical marriage and marriages of women of other gods etc. let's talk about the people called after *HIS* name. I know women who have said the Lord has told them NOT to marry. I personally know of a few who say He has told them no. Are they lying on Jesus? Why would they lie on God about a something "promised" to all people?

And since as it has been said here that we are all Christians, what about the thousands upon thousands of Catholic sisters who the Lord has called to remain unmarried? Some are moms, divorced and widowed but I believe most have never married (a Catholic sister can better answer that) are THEY lying on God? 
What about sisters who never wanted to marry and those who wanted to marry but never have children but the Lord instructed them to?

Be fruitful and multiply is not a promise of the Lord. That is a *BLESSING* of the Lord, *NOT* a promise of the Lord. Promises require nothing of us, we're irrelevant, that's God's work. Blessings have to be chosen. We have to choose to be married and we have to choose to be fruitful.
Marriage is NOT a promise but a BLESSING from the Lord to those who enter it according to His will. Children are a BLESSING from the Lord NOT a promise. If they were promises all mankind would receive them.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 9, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Ok, now that we've discussed the plight of unsaved women, historical marriage and marriages of women of other gods etc. let's talk about the people called after *HIS* name. I know women who have said the Lord has told them NOT to marry. I personally know of a few who say He has told them no. Are they lying on Jesus? Why would they lie on God about a something "promised" to all people?
> 
> And since as it has been said here that we are all Christians, what about the thousands upon thousands of Catholic sisters who the Lord has called to remain unmarried? Some are moms, divorced and widowed but I believe most have never married (a Catholic sister can better answer that) are THEY lying on God?
> What about sisters who never wanted to marry and those who wanted to marry but never have children but the Lord instructed them to?
> ...



I think we all agreed that there are some people who are instructed not to marry and have heard that from the Lord.

I'm not speaking of those women. 

I'm speaking of the women who have not been told that. 

None of us have ever said that all people are called to marriage, but I think the number of people instructed to remain single will always be a minority. 

And the "Be fruitful and multiply" statement was both a blessing and a directive.

As people called of His name, we should be setting the example in terms of encouraging marriage, not falling behind everyone else.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 9, 2009)

kayte said:


> I get the idea of early years or stages in our lives existing and having a unique voice in a woman’s development!
> 
> I’m confused what that has to do with what the author is referring to in the here and now.. a mature balanced woman living a joyous full life  and as a by product of that, fosters an environment to committed married love...
> these are very encouraging words..from a woman who has "walked her talk"
> ...



Kayte, I understood the point of your post and of course you know we're basically in agreement.    I was responding to Hopeful's question about it that presented a different perspective, but I wasn't saying that perspective was the right one either. It was just another perspective. That's all.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 9, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> I think we all agreed that there are some people who are instructed not to marry and have heard that from the Lord.
> 
> I'm not speaking of those women.
> 
> ...


 
Some were saying it was a promise of God and it's not. It's not a competition that Christians need to keep ahead of others either. It's about quality not quantity. The number of Christian marriages is irrelevant. What we should encourage is contentment in all states.

 The fruitful does not mean have babies. Having babies is just one of many ways to be fruitful and replenish the earth. Infertile people are still fruitful and replenish the earth. Productivity also has to be chosen. "I have set before ye this day blessing and curses......*choose* life. Deuteronomy 30:19.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 9, 2009)

Ladies, 
I emailed the edited chats out today. If I missed you please email me again, also check your spam folder to see if it went there.


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## Bunny77 (Feb 9, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Some were saying it was a promise of God and it's not. It's not a competition that Christians need to keep ahead of others either.



My point wasn't about Christians needing to compete with other groups, it's about Christians setting the standard. When we go out into the world, we want to set the example and they shall know us by our fruit. I think that the emphasis on strong family structure with marriage at its core is a great way to do that.




> It's about quality not quantity. The number of Christian marriages is irrelevant. What we should encourage is contentment in all states.



We should be working to increase quality Christian marriages. I agree that it's about quality over quantity, but they aren't mutually exclusive. We can increase the quantity of quality marriages. I agree with encouraging contentment in whatever state you happen to be in at the moment, however. 



> The fruitful does not mean have babies. Having babies is just one of many ways to be fruitful and replenish the earth. Infertile people are still fruitful and replenish the earth. Productivity also has to be chosen. "I have set before ye this day blessing and curses......*choose* life. Deuteronomy 30:19.



I agree with you on this. My point in noting that scripture though is that we as Christians should also be wary of sending out mixed messages. On one hand, we say that all must remain abstinent until marriage and have children within wedlock. Cool. But then, when Christians say, "Well marriage isn't for everyone," as a matter of course, or then see no issue with women waiting long periods for marriage that they are past the age of fertility, then what messages are we really sending here? What do we really believe in and what do we really support regarding marriages and family in the Christian community?

I know some pastors and Christian teachers/writers have seen the disconnect and potential contradiction in those ideas, which can undermine the greater message.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 9, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> My point wasn't about Christians needing to compete with other groups, it's about Christians setting the standard. When we go out into the world, we want to set the example and they shall know us by our fruit. I think that the emphasis on strong family structure with marriage at its core is a great way to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I agree with the bolded statement. I think this is part of the responsibility of the Great Commission Jesus preached. I'm not saying everyone should go out and start a marriage ministry, but your own relationships and marriages can be a testimony. Like the cliche says (paraphrasing), your life is sometimes the only sermon people will hear. And this does not just pertain to marriage, it extends to every area of our lives.

I think it's time that all Christians, married or single, return the honor and sanctity to marriage. This does not mean that marriage is for you or that you agree with it (the institution per se), but you at least respect it. That's the part that saddens me, is the loss of respect for the institution of marriage.


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## kayte (Feb 9, 2009)

> Kayte, I understood the point of your post and of course you know we're basically in agreement.  I was responding to Hopeful's question about it that presented a different perspective, but I wasn't saying that perspective was the right one either. It was just another perspective. That's all.



Hey Bunny 
Misunderstanding!
That answer was actually in response to an idea posited via personal anecdote of another poster ..of being adolscent or college aged and "loving oneself" but in a way that reflected that particular age...and had not..... as I tried to point out 
anything to do with the author's assertion that a mature single woman
realizing a happy life engenders quite naturally ..love..marriage

I must say though I appreciate your asking yourself in regards to activity 
_is this qualitatively adding to my life or is it filling a void.._

it honestly made me re-evaluate my business life which I love..defintely not about
a void... but it does not feel as balanced as it could...

I'm really re-thinking things based on Candace's paragraph and have already made decisons which I will probably blog

thanks for that  ..I resisted the message for sure


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 9, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> My point wasn't about Christians needing to compete with other groups, it's about Christians setting the standard. When we go out into the world, we want to set the example and they shall know us by our fruit. I think that the emphasis on strong family structure with marriage at its core is a great way to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That brings me back to my original point. Ask God what His plan is for your (not you in particular) life, that would also include His plan concerning your marital state. It  saves you from waiting on marriage, being committed to someone who has no intention of marrying you or will end up falling for someone else or marrying someone unfit to be your husband in the first place. 
Everyone should have their own relationship and own specific plan for their lives with God. If we are still being influenced by every wind and doctrine then we have bigger issues than finding a mate. Mixed signals should not influence a Christian. Seek God. He leads and guides us into all truths. Now whether or not we choose to follow and head His counsel will determine when and who we marry. 

The waiting past the age of fertility is not the Lord's fault. Neither is the high rate of Christian divorce in this country. That's Christians fault. He can't force us to seek and obey Him.


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## Irresistible (Feb 9, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> That brings me back to my original point. Ask God what His plan is for your (not you in particular) life, that would also include His plan concerning your marital state. It  saves you from waiting on marriage, being committed to someone who has no intention of marrying you or will end up falling for someone else or marrying someone unfit to be your husband in the first place.
> Everyone should have their own relationship and own specific plan for their lives with God. If we are still being influenced by every wind and doctrine then we have bigger issues than finding a mate. Mixed signals should not influence a Christian. Seek God. He leads and guides us into all truths. Now whether or not we choose to follow and head His counsel will determine when and who we marry.
> 
> The waiting past the age of fertility is not the Lord's fault. Neither is the high rate of Christian divorce in this country. That's Christians fault. He can't force us to seek and obey Him.


Some of us take the long way, or the hard knocks way


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## Bunny77 (Feb 9, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> That brings me back to my original point. Ask God what His plan is for your (not you in particular) life, that would also include His plan concerning your marital state. It  saves you from waiting on marriage, being committed to someone who has no intention of marrying you or will end up falling for someone else or marrying someone unfit to be your husband in the first place.
> Everyone should have their own relationship and own specific plan for their lives with God. If we are still being influenced by every wind and doctrine then we have bigger issues than finding a mate. Mixed signals should not influence a Christian. Seek God. He leads and guides us into all truths. Now whether or not we choose to follow and head His counsel will determine when and who we marry.
> 
> The waiting past the age of fertility is not the Lord's fault. Neither is the high rate of Christian divorce in this country. That's Christians fault. He can't force us to seek and obey Him.



Okay...  I think the main point of disagreement between us isn't about seeking God and asking Him about His will for our lives. I know you were speaking in general in this post and not about what I've personally done, but I wanted to mention anyway that this is something that I have indeed done. I have not asked specifically, "Is it your will that I marry?" -- I explained my feelings on that earlier in the thread -- but I have asked of God, "What is your will for me in marriage?" 

Since doing that, I have seen a lot of positive changes and have a completely different mindset about relationships and courtship. It is very much pro-marriage and pro-God's involvement in creating a healthy marriage, while that was not the case before I began doing so.

Anyway, my main point in this entire thread is that Christian churches and communities should be working on behalf of single women who desire to marry to help them toward Godly relationships that lead to marriage. I feel that is very much lacking and that's unfortunate, because it should be a part of more marriage ministries. 

You are right that peoples' choices to have premarital sex or marry past fertility age is not the Lord's fault, but the fault of Christians. But I take that a step further and say that I also feel that it is the fault of Christian leadership for not taking a more proactive role to guide its members toward relationships and marriage that honor God so that women wouldn't have to marry so "late" that they ended up facing an expired fertility date or to reduce the temptation and opportunitty for sexual sin.

While I think that it's a good thing to recognize and honor permanent singles and those currently in a single state as full and contributing members of a church body (so as to prevent situations such as the one that FoxyScholar went through), I believe there needs to be more energy devoted toward mentoring and nurturing singles OUT of that state into marriage as well because the majority in that group DO want to be married and haven't been forbidden from doing so.

The church and the Christian community should be the first people working to help this happen. Teaching about contentment in one's alone state should not be the ONLY message they receive from churches and family. 

Again, I recognize your disagreement and it is duly noted, but I felt the need to again make my position clear in case there were misunderstandings of where I stood.


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## Irresistible (Feb 10, 2009)

Am I the only one that sees that what FoxyScholar went through as a process that she had to be broken to be put back together the right way, with right desires in God's order-which also then put her so much closer to be actually spiritually prepared for Marriage-and that the LORD was in that all along

That brokenness was necessary for her to ever be able to be in a healthy Godly Marriage, she had to see and know her worth in the LORD first (and solely)  and not only connect that to a man and being married

she is blessed to have that IN her now


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 10, 2009)

The more I read these posts the more I realize how truly gray this whole thing is. I made some things black and white and they are simply not that way in some people's minds.

Interpretation of Scripture has been an age old debate back to Jesus' time...so I guess I shouldn't expect it to be so different now (especially with so much knowledge and education people can gain).

Everyone's interpretation and life experiences really color how they relate to this thread.

Not to extend this out and cause more debate, but what about the story of Hannah? Hannah wept bitterly and openly for a child, so much so that the priest thought she was drunk. She had a full life but was tormented (internally and externally) by not having a child. After she prayed and petitioned God and promised to give her son back to Him, her womb opened and she was no longer barren and she gave birth to Samuel. Had she not prayed and made her petition known, would she have gotten pregnant? Or is there no correlation between the timing of her prayers and the timing of her pregnancy?

I guess what I'm saying is, this same scenario could be applied to marriage. If husbands and children are not a promise, then Hannah should not have prayed for them either. According to some of the logic in this thread, she should have been happy being Elkanah's wife and should have left well enough alone.

IMO, Hannah's story is one of being barren, broken but then being restored. I guess I'm not one to dictate how God restores, heals or fulfills. IMO, sometimes he does it on his own, some times he uses other people.

Ultimately just like it says in the Bible, his ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than ours.


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## Irresistible (Feb 10, 2009)

http://www.imeem.com/people/g8zya/music/tSBQLVWW/tdjakes_you_are_my_ministry/


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 10, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> http://www.imeem.com/people/g8zya/music/tSBQLVWW/tdjakes_you_are_my_ministry/


 

One of my favorite songs! That whole CD is fire!!!!

A praise dancer danced to this at my cousin's wedding....it was truly powerful!


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 10, 2009)

This is like beating a dead horse, after this, I'm done. 

*Personal accountability. Personal accountability. Personal accountability. *

Personal relationship with the Lord. The church is not a dating service which needs to find husbands for single women. First y'all say,"I can marry whomever I want!" and "We don't need to be prepared or spiritually ready for a DH it should just happen.", "We don't have to change anything about ourselves or our walk!!!" then y'all say, "The church should be doing more to help me find a husband!"  No, that's between each woman and God. We need to stop trying to put barriers between us and Him when it comes to this issue. We wouldn't want to marry who the church picked for us anyway

It's society's fault, black men's fault, the church's fault, everybody's fault but the black Christian woman who's been praying for a husband. Can't possibly be anything she's doing, not doing, her attitude, her assignment the Lord needs for her to complete before marriage etc. Nope, she's ready and been ready

BTW, Hannah ALREADY had a husband. When y'all come up with a woman who prayed so hard for a husband let me know. Another reason Hannah doesn't fit into this praying fervently for a husband reasoning is that finding a husband wasn't impossible for Hannah. An infertile woman having a baby IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!! THAT'S why Hannah's prayer is so notable. 

Not only did Hannah pray to the Lord for a baby, she promised to give the child to the service of the Lord when he turned seven and knew she would only see him once a year. Hannah's prayer changed. She stoppped praying to just have a baby, she prayed to have a baby and dedicated him to God's service. THAT'S why the Lord answered Hannah's prayer, not because she begged BUT because Hannah CHANGED what she was doing!!! She made a change that was pleasing to God. She changed when she returned home. Is anyone willing to make that sacrifice 

The Lord heard her prayer and BLESSED Hannah and her husband with a son who the *LORD* needed for a particular purpose. He didn't just bless her with a son and said, "Okay, go on and have a happy life raising your son, He took Samuel and had Eli the SAME priest who heard her praying to raise as HIS son. If it was a promise then their wouldn't be any infertile Christian couples right?

Ladies who have an ear to hear, hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying. If you are praying the same fruitless (infertile,barren) prayer as Hannah had, if you CHANGE you prayer and change you walk, God will answer it. ASK GOD if you need to change your prayer or change your way or if you are already in the place HE wants you to be.


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## aribell (Feb 10, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Am I the only one that sees that what FoxyScholar went through as a process that she had to be broken to be put back together the right way, with right desires in God's order-which also then put her so much closer to be actually spiritually prepared for Marriage-and that the LORD was in that all along
> 
> That brokenness was necessary for her to ever be able to be in a healthy Godly Marriage, she had to see and know her worth in the LORD first (and solely) and not only connect that to a man and being married
> 
> she is blessed to have that IN her now


 
This is very much the way the Lord works.    There isn't anything that we go through that He is not using for our betterment.


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## PaperClip (Feb 10, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> This is like beating a dead horse, after this, I'm done.
> 
> *Personal accountability. Personal accountability. Personal accountability. *
> 
> ...


 
Ms.Honey:

I'm hearing (and reading) you.... It's a TOUGH PILL to swallow.... milk vs. meat.... and that's no diss on anybody, please understand.... but it is tough to wrestle with aligning one's will to the will of the Lord.... And that alignment may mean getting on the Lord's timeline about some things, for example.

Per what Irresistible and nicola.kirwan said: I wouldn't say the Lord broke me, but I broke myself by getting off track. But Romans 8:28 is STILL TRUE: "For we know all things work together for good to them that love God and are called according to His purpose."

What the devil meant for evil... meant to kill me, the Lord turned it around to work for good. And not even a half of the story of the good has been told.... 

To all: as some of the old folk say: Keep livin'.... and we'll understand it better by and by....


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## Kiadodie (Feb 10, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I had been dodging this thread for a while.... But I feel a light compulsion to share....
> 
> As a person who has whined and prayed and cried about marriage.... and some of you have listened and prayed with me during my lamenting....
> 
> ...


 
I have to tell you, your post really touched me.   Yes, at one point..I was REALLY focused on marriage and finding a man too. Every book I got, every discussion I had became a thing about marriage and how to find a man and what I'm doing wrong..etc. It consumed me and the joy of life was sucked out of me.
God, finally took those "INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL EXPECTATIONS AND PRESSURES" from me too. 

The Lord guided me to this scripture "Delight yourself in the LORD and *he* *will* *give* *you* *the* *desires* *of* *your* *heart*." Yes, I've read it PLENTY of times but this time it seemed like God was speaking to me directly.

As humans we tend to make things so complicated.  But in my world now, things are very simple. I get my joy from Him alone and my expectations are from Him alone.  I continue to pray for what I want, that's what His word says to do. Yet, as I pray I continue to trust in Him and not look at my circumstances.


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## TrendySocialite (Feb 10, 2009)

We should dedicate all of our children back to the Lord....and all of our children can and should be used by God for His purpose.

Well I'll be interested to hear the thoughts on the book of Ruth and the development of Ruth's relationship with Boaz...since there only seems to be a handful who the Spirit of the Lord speaks to.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 10, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Ms.Honey:
> 
> I'm hearing (and reading) you.... It's a TOUGH PILL to swallow.... milk vs. meat.... and that's no diss on anybody, please understand.... but it is tough to wrestle with aligning one's will to the will of the Lord.... And that alignment may mean getting on the Lord's timeline about some things, for example.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks chica.
Sometimes we can't see the forest for all of the trees WE'VE planted. We have to check our emotions and realize that everyone is not out to get us and keep us from what we want. That's low self esteem and self pity talking. A woe is me victim mentality keeps us from moving forward and leaves us in a stagnant state or mind. 

It was a hard lesson for me to learn. I used to think that God was against me when He changed my plans. Then I realized that He was just perfecting them. Now I always come to Him during my planning processes with great expectations. 

It is milk vs. meat. Once we realize that He knows what will fulfill us more than we do we stop fearing His answers to our requests and gladly say, "Not my will but THY will be done because I KNOW you are about to hook me up with something fantastic!!"


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## hopeful (Feb 10, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> ...
> Ladies who have an ear to hear, hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying. If you are praying the same fruitless (infertile,barren) prayer as Hannah had, if you CHANGE you prayer and change you walk, God will answer it. ASK GOD if you need to change your prayer or change your way or if you are already in the place HE wants you to be.


 
I really like how you put this.


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## Shinka (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> This is like beating a dead horse, after this, I'm done.
> 
> *Personal accountability. Personal accountability. Personal accountability. *
> 
> ...




Hi Ms. Honey,

Not to offend, but I think you may be missing everyone's point, but you think everyone else is missing your point.

1) I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you.

2)When people cite, the church, elders, etc....I ( i think most of us from what other posters have posted) are talking about guidance.


For example:  I personally have received word from God, and It has been confirmed, that I would be Married in 5 years (this was from 2007), have 5 children each with a special gift.  Now, I know in terms of prayers that numbers can be literally or abstract ( as in God's time).  I say this to say...I don't worry about one day being married. I'm sure it will happen because of my spiritual experience.

My problem is discerning who to marry.  Now I'm not saying I have all this marriage offers to go through. I have been married, divorced, and proposed to again.

Now, the man who proposed, and who I talked about recently in the Man/Child thread...didn't sit well with my Brother who is a Christian.

So when I say, I would like a Marriage Ministry or  the church to guide me better.  It's really about helping me to know what makes a good marriage and a good husband. I understand that everyone marriage and people are different, but I think they are some foundational basics that I am missing.  I'm trying to learn them, but feel that I'm failing. Although I pray about and I read the scriptures, I still feel kind of lost. When my brother (whose been married for 12 years and is a devout Christian) tells me he's disappointed in my choice, but won't guide me on how to chose better, then I'm even more lost and frustrated.

Then I turn to books, forums, etc to try and learn.  I'm 25...so I'm not in a rush and I'm working on the "other" parts of my life. But I feel i'm dumb is this area.

Yes, i read the bible. I have to work on attending church regularly, and I pray often. Maybe when I met the right man, God will "talk" to me or he'll lead me to understand those qualities. But it would be nice if people I know in this world could *"guide"* me. Show me some examples of ( by introducing or whatever way they are led to teach me this)  a "man" they think may have the basic christian foundations to being a husband.

_The other posters listed why this guidance may not be available or not even deemed important for singles._

3) I think and believe the women here are Christian women. As Christians, we know we have to grow and God will put things in our life so we can grow. So I think it's a bit offensive to say that "we" or rather I ( although, may not personally be speaking to me, but I think I should us "I" statements) aren't willing to ask God and work on ourselves, and that we all have this defensive air that there is nothing wrong with the Black Christian Women.

4) From your post, I think you are saying its solely the women who needs to change and pray for guidance. I think many of the posters are not necessarily opposing that, but are saying this issue is a bit more complex and has many other factors too it. *We can control ourselves, but how do we have impact on the other factors? *Factors that even if you are where the lord wants *you* to be, may not be in line so that it would lead to marriage ( _Are we assuming God will get it all in place.._.? I'm really asking out of curiosity, not to be smart) 

_*Or*_ is part of "working on oneself" and God preparing one for marriage/motherhood consist of knowing the basics of what a GOOD Christian husbands looks like, knowing how to raise Christian Children, and knowing how to exhibiting love unconditionally etc... ???(_* I don't know the answer...so I ask you Ms.Honey, and more experienced ladies)*_  What is ready? Maybe us Black Christian women don't know...but who is here to guide us? *God, yes, but doesn't he work through our spiritual leaders, mothers and fathers as well as through us?*


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## Shinka (Feb 11, 2009)

_*Might be a topic for a new thread....but

Ms. Honey: *__*"If they were promises all mankind would receive them. 	"*_ 

 -I'm really confused by this statement and I don't think it negates the idea of promises. 

 As far as promises, blessings directives on marriage and motherhood:

 Why would God direct us to do something, he didn't want us to do or make us incapable of doing?  I hope that makes sense. Whether it's a blessing or promise, I think we need to assume he desires it for every women until God tells us otherwise. *Don't we assume,* well I do, *that most of the directives in the bible*, other than what is now consider Jewish Law, because Christ fulfilled the law, *are directives for modern day Christians?*


 Also, the "go and be fruitful". God directed Abraham to be fruitful...but then blessed his barren with with a child. I think it's logical for most Christians to think that the term fruitful encompasses children.Therefore, we can think that part of being fruitful is planning for children which should only happen in marriage since we are directed to not fornicate. If God is tell me to do something in a larger christian sense, hasn't he already prepared me to do it? Shouldn't I only not expect it happen or pray about how it should happen until I'm led to believe otherwise? 

 Also, If we use Eve as an example of what God made women's role in the world...basically to toil during child labor, and desire her husband ( as in the context of this discussion).  Now, he didn't say if you _chose_ to have children and a husband. (my interpretation) *I think God's promise is the ability for a women to marry and have children due to how God made us and what happened after the great fall.*

_However, with this idea, can God promise us anything?  Everything is a choice because we have free will. Also, we all have sin. sin is in the world. Because of that, no one is in their pure "God created" form: we have genetic mutations etc..  God had promised by saying what our role is, _however this _may not "naturally" come to pass because this promise isn't guaranteed to be fulfilled due to sin in the world. On this premise, as Christians, we thank God for the blessing if it happens. _

 While GOD may have biologically promised this, he can lead us another way...( nun, celibacy,etc) as far as our role for God's work. God didn't also say that children and being "fruitful" had to come from biological children which may be why we can "mother" adoptive children, we have medical procedures that can help to have children etc...

 Isn't part of being a Christian is to pray in Jesus' name as a way for us to allow God promises, words & truths to happen in the world, and to allow God to intercede those things in our personal lives (via Holy Spirit) in the earthly realm because GOD _technicall_y can't exert "his control" here because of the great fall and that he gave us free will? Which is way the saying Earth is the Devil's playground exist.( I know this is a off topic, maybe this can be explained in another thread)



*
*


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Ms.Honey:
> 
> I'm hearing (and reading) you.... It's a TOUGH PILL to swallow.... milk vs. meat.... and that's no diss on anybody, please understand.... but it is tough to wrestle with aligning one's will to the will of the Lord.... And that alignment may mean getting on the Lord's timeline about some things, for example.
> 
> ...


Yeah this is what I mean

You ask something of the LORD , he knows there is something in you he needs to get out,  or something he need to put in , or both , for him to even be able to give you what you asked,  the right way, his way, he has to allow for your preparation , so indeed it was you,  but he let (allowed) for you to not be quickly appeased outside of his will and your prayer,  by not letting you find what it was you think you wanted/needed/had to have to not 'break'  he let the breaking happen,  to put you back together again

because yes,  all things work together 

and yes he is found by us when we are broken,  he was in it that way is what I meant exactly


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

This all is really no joke

I stood for TEN years single and celibate and strong,  then just as I was going through one of the darkest trials in my life,  I met a man, he stood by my side through the end , I met him just before surgery, he stayed on the phone with me till I fell asleep just so I could sleep those days just before,  we hadnt met in person yet,   I was facing possible breast cancer,  it was benign thank God,  then a week or so after surgery we went out,  had such a beautiful time, he held me and held and held me and wiped my tears,  he gave me a reason to smile, he caught my tears over and over again over the loss of my friend to breast cancer just before my surgery,  he gave me new things to look forward to, we just lived loved and laughed, , living mostly 'in the moment' which was easy to do after what I had just been through,  we went everywhere together, I HAD JOY IN MY HEART AGAIN, I had LOVE, The first man in years that I KNEW WHEN I LOOKED INTO HIS EYES and in everything he did , there was actually LOVE, REAL LOVE, DEEP LOVE  he cooked for me, took me on trips, gave me everything to look forward to again after I was knocked down so hard, LIFE AND LOVE WAS SWEET AGAIN, my soul was singing and smiling again,  he was the wind beneath my wings when I was trying to fly again,  he spoke faith and love into me again and faith in love,  he became my soul sanctuary, my light in a dark world,  my hope in love again, my only belief left,  that God did it finally , finally blessed me with LOVE,  after so many years alone , through so many battles and storms ,finally someone to hold me up and stand with me  and that he did, I got sick and he took care of me,  he spoke faith into me and strength over my body when I was weak,  HE WOULD LITTERALLY BE IN TEARS AND PUT HIS HANDS ON ME AND SAY NOOO YOU ARE STRONG YOU HAVE STRENGTH,  I COULD LITERALLY feel the my strength being restored bit by bit, he cooked healthy meals for me every day and even fed me,  everybody loved him , my mother, my sister , my daughter,  my brother in law spoke to me about him in the spirit that he knew that he was the one,  we felt it , we knew it,

then came the tests and the trials and the battles and the storms and the fire and the crashing....crashing.....crashing

and we were just stuck in the aftermath when it was all said and done and our souls were wiped out with pain , just taking long hard looks at ourselves, like 'what have we done'   and then WE TALKED,  AND then we realized that for a year and half we just went on this whirlwind,  and didnt really talk,  we didnt know we didnt really talk though, untill we really started to and we had to talk, it was like 'I didnt even know you, but I didnt know I didnt know you' kind of thing, very strange feeling indeed those hours upon hours of talking and just learning so much about eachother

But I said all this to say this, after standing through so many battles alone and so strong, when he came , it was MY BLESSING 

and when things went wrong,  we wont even talk about the darkness, pain and depression and the weariness and the questioning God,  I WAS BROKEN, I BLAMED HIM, I BLAMED GOD, I really really blamed God! I gave up!  I crashed and didnt see a way back up again

But slowly through all the darkness and tearfllled nights and agony in my soul,  God started to speak to me,  and had me LOOK AT ME and my responsibilty/issues/fears leading to  the destruction and pain, he also ministered to me about him,  and  slowly I watched , saw., and heard him doing the same things. looking at himself and understanding me

moral,  even when you stand strong and wait and think you found him, and the wait is over, and you can EXHALE and just breathe again,  he is NEVER GOING TO BE YOUR SAVIOUR,  he is just a man

I too was broken to be put back together again , the right way,  the way I was, I could NEVER have LOVED the way it should have been/should be and neither could he


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## kayte (Feb 11, 2009)

> This is like beating a dead horse, after this, I'm done.



I think this is an excellent idea
respectfully 
imho ...guidance and leadership and godly counsel can cross a line 
to control _in the name of God_



> Personal accountability. Personal accountability. Personal accountability.



in the spirit of this..maybe the writer could look at this for herself....


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## kayte (Feb 11, 2009)

> This is very much the way the Lord works.  There isn't anything that we go through that He is not using for our betterment





> Am I the only one that sees



my post was...... while the experiences we have_ coalesce _they don't necessarily correlate..
.in other words those experiences form the fabric of who we are...
it all comes together..yes...but in the context of my more recent post 
which was living a realized life now..that life is markedly different than say...when I was four years old...
or pick any other passage in a woman's life...

to say  ...what we went through before ... makes us who we are now 
..well sure... I said/ noted that already

_but keeping the focus in context_.... ergo:..puberty is not the same as mature womanhood  
even if that experience imprints on the mature woman
the author asserts ..love yourself now...
loving yourself at 40 is not the same as 14... is my point...
lol..for some us that maybe in question..  

so I was confused how a different passage of age 
an egocentric stage..of self would be posted to counter ...

I mean I can say... I loved myself at ten years old and was unbearable
my sibs could not stand me..which was true,btw
lol...as my response..yes that's valid and it is part of the spiritual journey
of evolving womanhood 

but in response to the post of loving oneself...NOW
speaking to point of the mature woman wanting marriage 
.....to me it doesn't seem germane to the topic 



..maybe a side bar..I guess 

anyways the author is talking about loving oneself at a mature age....and the arguement is..what..exactly ? 

Frankly I'm puzzled 
don't you want to have a happy life... now ..
geez


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## ALWAYZL8 (Feb 11, 2009)

hairlove said:


> It's all so confusing.
> 
> You're told to keep busy so you won't think about being single and hopefully in one of those activities maybe you'll meet someone.
> 
> ...


 

Amen... I hear one or the other every other day from young and old.  Why????????????


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 11, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Of course faith without works is dead, but acts/works not lead by God are fruitless and are just as dead
> 
> cant we believe while we are living and doing things, that God will bring it to pass, not we go make it happen in the sense of not being lead
> 
> ...


 
I agree with that but we will never know G-d's will unless we act on something and working it out, we see His plan.  That's what I meant about creation being a work in progress.  It's not to negate G-d's sovereignty.  I do think we often worry so much about what His will is, we don't act.  Maybe His will is that we step out seeking in faith...only by taking steps (in whatever it is) do we arrive at the designated place.  And I don't think that "fruitless" prayers have been properly and thoroughly explained in this thread.  We only have our mind, experiences and hope so what's left is to act.  Think Moses when they set out to leave.  They never would have seen the miracles if they hadn't had it in their mind to leave.  Yeah, that's a little simplistic in my explanation but that's the gist of it, I think


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 11, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Okay, point of clarification. Are you (/you all) saying that the culture affects _our own_ _views_ of marriage which requires that we act in particular ways to counter-act that influence, or are you saying that the cultural norms affect our _chances of_ getting married, whether or not it's "God's will"?
> 
> I realize that your quote doesn't address all that, but it seems to be a question running under many of these posts.


 

I think that there are people who just up and find Mr./Mrs. Right standing there with an aura around them in neon light that reads..."Pick me, it's ordained!!!"    That can surely happen.  But for most people, they just need to get out there and meet people, esp. in courting for marriage.  I think we need lots of experience meeting diff. types of potential partners as it makes for a more balanced individual.  Just get out there and have fun in life and not take the marriage thing too seriously.  Be sincere, but don't think every guy/girl coming your way is the one.  There might be something G-d wants you or him/her to learn about others and about oneself in the process.

Yes, I think that religious are much more affected by the popular culture they live in more than they realize.  I see that disrespect for people is at an all-time high and marriage is not exempt and cloistered away being protected from it.  Marriages are made up of real people.  Christians are real people...they are not mini g-ds, they are not preserved from harm anymore than others, not IMHO.  They are live and in the flesh like everybody else.  Christian marriages, religious marriages from whichever faith are seriously under attack because of the culture in which we live.


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> There was one particular thread that cut me very deep on this point...that I should be ashamed that my parents contribute to my life at this age. If only they knew the whole story...my Good Lord....


 

I haven't read it and not sure now I want to but from knowing you online, I can say...you deserve an honorary Jewish award!!!  Your parents are still very important and you listen to their wisdom


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> And since as it has been said here that we are all Christians, what about the thousands upon thousands of Catholic sisters who the Lord has called to remain unmarried? Some are moms, divorced and widowed but I believe most have never married (a Catholic sister can better answer that) are THEY lying on God?
> What about sisters who never wanted to marry and those who wanted to marry but never have children but the Lord instructed them to?
> the Lord NOT a promise. If they were promises all mankind would receive them.


 

You mean nuns?  They _are_ married, to Christ lol.  It's a certain ceremony of induction and they are married to Him.  It's part of their vocation and certainly, they made the choice through free will.  There are historical accounts of women who became religious (nuns) and their families did not desire that choice at first...they wished them to marry.  Free choice.  All along, G-d knew who would come and who wouldn't.  Some turn away from it.  

I also wanted to say concerning the culture of marriage and how it's evolved, in the past, it wasn't necessarily about love but to maintain the social order.  Women are so very emancipated these days...self-sufficient, and we are looking for the love mate, not nec. to follow through with what is expected culturally, even this is waning in very traditional societies and countries.  Our culture and mind have changed our opinion on the value of marriage.


Incidentally, my little one asked me about nuns and why they weren't married.  I told him that, yes, they are married but to Jesus.  He looked at me and started thinking lol.  "But if nuns marry Jesus, what about priests, they can't marry Jesus."


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

kayte said:


> my post was...... while the experiences we have_ coalesce _they don't necessarily correlate..
> .in other words those experiences form the fabric of who we are...
> it all comes together..yes...but in the context of my more recent post
> which was living a realized life now..that life is markedly different than say...when I was four years old...
> ...



OMG OMG dont quote me sweet Kayte, I wasnt saying anything about anything you said at all

I agree with all you spoke

my response was about the posts saying the church should take the position of preventing such things happening as what happened with FS, I was more saying that God was a part of that process for her all along

I am not so sure a church has the power to really deal with ones inner wounds, pains, fears and hurts/lostness and lack like the LORD himself, not saying the church isnt 'used'  But nothing like a one on one with God and seeking him yourself

thats all I meant


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I agree with that but we will never know G-d's will unless we act on something and working it out, we see His plan.  That's what I meant about creation being a work in progress.  It's not to negate G-d's sovereignty.  I do think we often worry so much about what His will is, we don't act.  Maybe His will is that we step out seeking in faith...only by taking steps (in whatever it is) do we arrive at the designated place.  And I don't think that "fruitless" prayers have been properly and thoroughly explained in this thread.  We only have our mind, experiences and hope so what's left is to act.  Think Moses when they set out to leave.  They never would have seen the miracles if they hadn't had it in their mind to leave.  Yeah, that's a little simplistic in my explanation but that's the gist of it, I think


well the way it works for me, is I dont step out on my own,  I mean the things that I am free to do yes,  and I do some fruitless things and have issues like everybody else, but when it comes down to my bottom line truth and what I have lived, I truly trust that for me,  the word , the unction or whatever he sends comes first,  before I step out,  when it comes to a life changing decision thats where I am lead, by hearing him,  then I act/move/do , then he confirms/makes provision etc for what he told me to do. or shows me the purpose as I go

the children of Israel didnt just have it in their minds to leave,  Moses went to the Pharoah many times saying 'THUS SAYS THE LORD, LET MY CHILDREN GO'  he sent many plagues because he wouldnt , many,  the children of Israel already witnessed those miracles of God's power happen , confirming his word,  so they had their word, instruction and confirmation and miracles first,  then many many more once they went

they didnt just step out and say 'Follow me Lord'  No the LORD told them to follow him and that he would lead them to their promise land


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## Bunny77 (Feb 11, 2009)

Shinka, I think you have done an excellent job of providing clarification and insight on all the points that I and others have been trying to make.

As for this part... I think it's due for a spinoff...



> 2)When people cite, the church, elders, etc....I ( i think most of us from what other posters have posted) are talking about guidance.
> 
> 
> For example: I personally have received word from God, and It has been confirmed, that I would be Married in 5 years (this was from 2007), have 5 children each with a special gift. Now, I know in terms of prayers that numbers can be literally or abstract ( as in God's time). I say this to say...I don't worry about one day being married. I'm sure it will happen because of my spiritual experience.
> ...


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

I just wanted to say of course when you 'meet him' the LORD will talk to you and guide you, he would NEVER leave you to count on FLESH for such things as this.  

it comes to a point where you have to trust God and God only , not your freinds opinions ,or family,  the opinions of the church or any human influence whatsoever, not even YOURSELF when it comes to what God joins together and is doing-all trust has to be put solely in him, because lets just say hypothetically,  a family member is disgruntled by 'your choice'  but its really God's choice and there are things that family member sees not and knows not ,  yes God will/can and does use people,  in the ways he chooses,  to help guide us , bless us etc.  But until we can trust in his word and recognize it for ourselves we wont ever recognize it in others

almost every move God had me make,  that was crazy , my mother was in complete opposition , I can almost bank on that everytime,  but very soon after she starts to 'grasp' it and is full of support.  But if I was moved by the 'pressure' my mother can/has put on me when I was being lead,  then wow, I cannot tell you what HUGE things I would have lost out on blessing wise from the LORD


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 11, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> well the way it works for me, is I dont step out on my own, I mean the things that I am free to do yes, and I do some fruitless things and have issues like everybody else, but when it comes down to my bottom line truth and what I have lived, I truly trust that for me, the word , the unction or whatever he sends comes first, before I step out, when it comes to a life changing decision thats where I am lead, by hearing him, then I act/move/do , then he confirms/makes provision etc for what he told me to do. or shows me the purpose as I go
> 
> the children of Israel didnt just have it in their minds to leave, Moses went to the Pharoah many times saying 'THUS SAYS THE LORD, LET MY CHILDREN GO' he sent many plagues because he wouldnt , many, the children of Israel already witnessed those miracles of God's power happen , confirming his word, so they had their word, instruction and confirmation and miracles first, then many many more once they went
> 
> they didnt just step out and say 'Follow me Lord' No the LORD told them to follow him and that he would lead them to their promise land


 

Yes, but their initial desire was for freedom, *their* initial desire and G-d heard.   Some of the people didn't want to leave for fear of what they would face away from what they had known all their lives.  Some didn't believe Moshe.  They still made an effort, a collective effort to MOVE past where they were.  This was *still* part of G-d's divine plan.  He doesn't expect us to sit with a box waiting for a miracle to be placed into it.  

 I hear what you are saying, though, surely I do.  All I'm saying is that part of faith is *action*.  G-d might say, "go here."  Then we're stuck wondering what kind of shoes we should be wearing and where exactly to put our foot off the curb because G-d didn't indicate the second we should go, what attire to wear, how well to be prepared, what it would look like when we got there, which part of the curb...the broken up part, the yellow part, the curvy part, the straight part, this inch/that inch...  It's not as though G-d has taken away our mental capacity.  We have thought and for a good reason and that is obviously within His will.  All I'm saying, sure, G-d can lead someone to do something, in exact measures.  But Salk for polio vaccine?  Sure.  He had to take a step in research and that included the possibilities in the face of extreme doubt and impossibilities.  I don't think he exactly prayed over it.  He was born with it.  

To me, it's not like G-d is going to say, "oh, here, here's the guy"  or "x-day, I'll show you the guy so don't date, don't make friends, don't Borders on Saturday with a Seattle coffee and book in hand cuz you might meet someone I don't want for you."  I don't quite think it's going to be like that for the vast majority of people.  We will meet our fate, whatever it is...but we will be living and walking through life on the way.  And like you said, it's just a man...so true.


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Yes, but their initial desire was for freedom, *their* initial desire.    I hear what you are saying.  All I'm saying is that part of faith is action.  G-d might say, "go here."  Then we're stuck wondering what kind of shoes we should be wearing and where exactly to put our foot off the curb...



LOL girl not I 

I would be on the other side of the street already

when I hear from him,  thats it girl!

Faith is only the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen -thats what the bible says faith is

but yes it also says, Faith without works is dead

so one can have dead faith without works

But me thinks true faith can only lead to works,   because true faith will naturally lead you to trust/be lead/act/trust


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Yes, but their initial desire was for freedom, *their* initial desire and G-d heard.   Some of the people didn't want to leave for fear of what they would face away from what they had known all their lives.  Some didn't believe Moshe.  They still made an effort, a collective effort to MOVE past where they were.  This was *still* part of G-d's divine plan.  He doesn't expect us to sit with a box waiting for a miracle to be placed into it.
> 
> I hear what you are saying, though, surely I do.  All I'm saying is that part of faith is *action*.  G-d might say, "go here."  Then we're stuck wondering what kind of shoes we should be wearing and where exactly to put our foot off the curb because G-d didn't indicate the second we should go, what attire to wear, how well to be prepared, what it would look like when we got there, which part of the curb...the broken up part, the yellow part, the curvy part, the straight part, this inch/that inch...  It's not as though G-d has taken away our mental capacity.  We have thought and for a good reason and that is obviously within His will.  All I'm saying, sure, G-d can lead someone to do something, in exact measures.  But Salk for polio vaccine?  Sure.  He had to take a step in research and that included the possibilities in the face of extreme doubt and impossibilities.  I don't think he exactly prayed over it.  He was born with it.
> 
> To me, it's not like G-d is going to say, "oh, here, here's the guy"  or "x-day, I'll show you the guy so don't date, don't make friends, don't Borders on Saturday with a Seattle coffee and book in hand cuz you might meet someone I don't want for you."  I don't quite think it's going to be like that for the vast majority of people.  We will meet our fate, whatever it is...but we will be living and walking through life on the way.  And like you said, it's just a man...so true.



girl I dont know why we are going round and round like this because it seems to me we are really saying the same things just different ways

But I do believe that a miracle can also happen by waiting, if that was his instruction in the first place

I dont know how to say it any other way anymore.  All I am really saying here is how important it is to be 'lead' by him

no it might not be all detailed,  or it might, either way,  its about being lead

I am not saying, go sit in your house and dont move or do anything until you know every answer to everything first, of course it is not like that , on all things and not often at all, I am also saying LIVE and in the meantime trust he is able to guide you and bless you.   But going out there overly trying to find the mate God has for you, which was the main subject this all started from , is pointless,  if your really trusting him,  then you know it will happen while you are just living and right on time-His time, which was my only point our conversation started from and it doesnt seem that we are in disagreement on that right?

I mean what I am saying doesnt literally mean dont go out , dont meet people,  just means that the final decision of who or what that person is to be to you/or you to them is made by the LORD, or lets say it should be   we should be lead by only that

does it mean we will always know right off, of course not,  as I just stated in another thread the devil is mighty busy bringing pretty counterfeits all the day long

even more the reason to 'be lead' only


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 11, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> *But I do believe that a miracle can also happen by waiting, if that was his instruction in the first place*
> 
> 
> I am not saying, go sit in your house and dont move or do anything until you know every answer to everything first, of course it is not like that , on all things and not often at all, I am also saying LIVE and in the meantime trust he is able to guide you and bless you. But going out there overly trying to find the mate God has for you, which was the main subject this all started from , is pointless,* if your really trusting him,*
> ...


 
Not circles, I'm just trying to figure out who stands where.  Some posters have definitely implied standing still and waiting for him to come with a light beam shining down upon him lol.  But you raised it well, if that is what G-d told someone to do, wait for him to be hand delivered with a branded name right on the doorstep. Some do want it that way.   I think that's part of the overall "contention" on this topic.  

There are some who feel that it's not their taste, duty or instruction to wait but to get out there and that there are others who definitely wish him hand-delivered with absolutely no equivocable signs.  It's not turning around...we're pretty much on the same page...we don't nec. have to be to be friends ...u know I luv ya!...but this was a point I was trying to make.  From the way it all started, there were these opposing sides and it wasn't clearly stated that this was actually the contention...I guess, how to wait upon the L-rd and how to read the signs if and when they come.  It is difficult.


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> Not circles, I'm just trying to figure out who stands where.  Some posters have definitely implied standing still and waiting for him to come with a light beam shining down upon him lol.  But you raised it well, if that is what G-d told someone to do, wait for him to be hand delivered with a branded name right on the doorstep. Some do want it that way.   I think that's part of the overall "contention" on this topic.
> 
> There are some who feel that it's not their taste, duty or instruction to wait but to get out there and that there are others who definitely wish him hand-delivered with absolutely no equivocable signs.  It's not turning around...we're pretty much on the same page...we don't nec. have to be to be friends ...u know I luv ya!...but this was a point I was trying to make.  From the way it all started, there were these opposing sides and it wasn't clearly stated that this was actually the contention...I guess, how to wait upon the L-rd and how to read the signs if and when they come.  It is difficult.


lol no girl , your adding 'extra' to what is being said.  When one is saying they believe God can bring him or bring it together, that means they dont have to take it upon themselves to make that moment happen, no beams, no brands  a simple passing in the street, while meeting a freind in a coffee shop,  he comes to your job,  he sees you in church,  you pass him in the Grocery store , he sees you getting out of your car to go into a store,  a destiny meeting is just that destined.  Thats all,  I mean he didnt say dont live in the meantime,  but while living being lead by him in all things,  knowing he will guide your steps and direct your path,  most of us living this way are not all balled up in confusion waiting for every minute detail , or we do nothing, no its not like that at all, its just living and trusting and not chasing down what should be and is going to given to us anyway in his timing.  

it is difficult because we are flesh, but he knows this too, he knows how to get our attention,  its difficult in flesh but not in spirit , if that makes sense,  we want answers in our flesh, we want to know how and when etc etc,  but in our spirits we walk by faith, not sight and we trust, he already knows we wont get it all right, and thats ok too.  

The waiting part,  well I meant that about anything , miracles can and do happen by waiting if thats what he told you to do, if he tells you to move you move.   I dont know how else to explain it mama.  

I hope you get what I'm saying


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 11, 2009)

Shinka said:


> Hi Ms. Honey,
> 
> Not to offend, but I think you may be missing everyone's point, but you think everyone else is missing your point.
> 
> ...


 
Only one person can lead you and guide you into all truth and that's the Holy Spirit. Revelations says that He moves from pew to pew discerning what each saint needs. The Lord speaks us through our pastor and other saints. We then have to go to the Lord and ask Him what His plan is, how does He want us to proceed with the Word we've received. We have to ask God.

My church has a Singles ministry. It's to teach singles to be content in the single state and how to have godly fellowships. It is not to teach anyone how to be future wives and moms because 1) everyone will not get married and have children and 2) that's what *premarital class* is all about. Why prepare for marriage if no one has even asked you? When someone asks THAT'S when the guidance comes.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 11, 2009)

kayte said:


> I think this is an excellent idea
> respectfully
> imho ...guidance and leadership and godly counsel can cross a line
> to control _in the name of God_
> ...


 
Please put me on ignore or something because you are not able to comprehend what I say. I don't care to control, guide, counsel or correct ANYONE in this thread but I guess that's what differing opinions to what some of you want to hear, HOW some of you want to hear it appear to some of you. I don't know most of you or your personal situations and truly don't care to know. I wouldn't counsel someone openly on a public forum anyway. I would and do pm and call folks personally.
My posts are about Christian women in general but you all want to say I'm talking about you specifically *no matter how many times I tried to make it clear that I'm not* Then some sisters tried to explain to me their situations starting it off with, "Ms.Honey, I know you weren't talking about me but..." and then say I was being hard on THEM 

Ladies, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU, WHAT YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU PRAYED OR DIDN'T PRAY BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW YOU!!!!!!!!! What I am saying is ASK GOD, if you've already asked God and He's instructed you I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU!!!!!


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## Poohbear (Feb 11, 2009)

kayte said:


> I'm troubled with the prayer because although I agree to it does target singles who are struggling with the issue....the main message I get from the content was that singles ought to be content being alone...
> TO BE CONTENT TO BE ALONE  _that is the title of the prayer_
> ....*and as it's from a Christian married couple....
> who clearly were not content to be alone and yet are advising other
> ...



I feel you.

I once read this book called Completely His by Shannon Ethridge.  This author is married and she tries to convince readers who are single to be satisfied with being Jesus' bride.  Throughout the whole book, it seems like she teases readers with the idea of marriage. She talks about how she got married and then goes back to talking about how single women need to be happy without a man and that Jesus is all they need.


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

I believe alot of Godly Marriages would not have taken place had those two not learned to be content alone with the LORD first.  I do believe that is the proper order,  I do believe that if you dont possess that relationship with the LORD that he is enough,  and everything first,  then he cant add things unto you,  because you might put those things on the throne in your life, because you never learned how to be complete in him first


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

oh and if he is asking that of you and requiring it of you, consider yourself blessed,  that he is not just giving you over to your pacifier and and your security blanket and that he wants much more with you and for you and from you

to whom much is given much is required 

Do not look at others in Marriages that God did not put together as being in a better position just because they have somebody

surely they are not!


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 11, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> I believe alot of Godly Marriages would not have taken place had those two not learned to be content alone with the LORD first. I do believe that is the proper order, I do believe that if you dont possess that relationship with the LORD that he is enough, and everything first, then he cant add things unto you, because you might put those things on the throne, because you never learned how to be complete in him first


 
I agree. It is NOT something you want to have to learn once you're already married Spouses are distractions and you no longer have the ability or the *RIGHT* to go off on your own and spend as much time as you want sitting at the feet of Jesus. Your DH's need no matter how reasonable or unreasonable come before you and you and Jesus because singles get to minister to the Lord whenever they choose but marrieds have to minister to their spouses. We have to care for natural things of the world (spouses) while singles get to care for spiritual things(the Lord). 

 In marriage women have also CHOSEN to put someone between them and God. You have chosen someone who the Lord speaks to about your *household* and not to you directly anymore. Now it's,"Well what did the Lord say about so and so?" when once it was direct instructions. Marriage does not make our lives easier, it gives us *extra* responsibilties.


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## Shinka (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Only one person can lead you and guide you into all truth and that's the Holy Spirit. Revelations says that He moves from pew to pew discerning what each saint needs. The Lord speaks us through our pastor and other saints. We then have to go to the Lord and ask Him what His plan is, how does He want us to proceed with the Word we've received. We have to ask God.
> 
> My church has a Singles ministry. It's to teach singles to be content in the single state and how to have _*godly fellowships*_. It is not to teach anyone how to be future wives and moms because 1) everyone will not get married and have children and 2) that's what *premarital class* is all about. Why prepare for marriage if no one has even asked you? When someone asks THAT'S when the guidance comes.




Thank for responding and providing clarification.  _When you say godly fellowships, does this include dating?


_I guess I'm really asking about what might be consider "pre-relationship" or christiam dating class... Which be the the prerequisite for the premarital class.

I need more guidance in being more discerning during the dating process, what qualities should I look for, etc...

I guess that me be another reason people divorce or discover during the premarital counseling they aren't compatible to one another. I just would like guidance on how to figure somethings out before you get so involved with someone to the point where they propose.

That's my personal issue and need for development as I don't have people personally in my life to guide in that area spiritually.Because:

1) they don't deem it important

2) They like to judge after the fact

3) They are bitter themselves regarding relationships

4) They don't have a sense themselves on what to look for

5) or they tell me to focus on myself and the rest will work out. ( I esp. hate this one because I'm focused on myself but should I live in a bubble and not date or date and keep making the same mistakes)

 I digress....


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## deola (Feb 11, 2009)

Ok I haven't read through this whole thread but so far some of the responses have been.....interesting to say the least.

I'm of the opinion that if one makes her relationship with God the greatest most important thing in her life, she will walk in ALL of God's blessings/promises _for her. _

Luke 6 says "_seek ye first the kingdom of God and all of these things shall be added unto you"_-marriage been one of these things.While most women desire marriage - I say most because not all do-, not all will get married because it might not be God's will for her.

I remember back in University, I was all about God's work and advancing His kingdom here on earth by being actively involved in my church. I was single, very desirable and did not have a boyfriend because I had come to that place in my life where no one gave me satisfaction like He did. Mind you, I had  never had a boyfriend before but had tons of male friends (a lot of them eligible christian fine young men), some who asked to marry me. 

For some reason, I decided that I would not get married because I liked my life the way it was and I mentioned this to a couple of my girls stating that marriage was not the all in all for women but intimacy with God was. Now they had tried to get me to join them every morning for a prayer session for our prospective mates and marriage in general and I thought they were becoming consumed by it and declined. These girls went on the protective offensive (protective because I was their friend and they wanted me to marry just like they desired for themselves, offensive because I had dared to imply the impossible-that marriage was not the deal breaker in a woman's happiness).

Will I teach my daughter to pray about her prospective mate? Sure. However I will also teach her that if she tunes her life to His spiritual radio waves daily, then she will lack no good thing because all good things come from Him.

Ladies, I believe if praying for marriage has one consumed so much so that one's walk with God is not as it should be, then I'm sorry to say, but that urge that makes one pray so relentlessly like that may be an idol and God will not/cannot move freely in one's life to bring about His perfect will.

Needless to say I got married at 28 (God made me understand that while my service to Him was pleasant in His eyes, He had plans for me to be the wind underneath the sails of a godly man and an example and mentor to our kids). Now I don't always get it right, but God is merciful and faithful and He's an ever present help for me.

I said all this to say that we cannot overemphasize the importance of walking with God and daily mortifying the desires of the flesh regardless of whatever pressure society puts on us in any form. We are first children of God then christian women. Let us not forget that.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2009)

A question..... Maybe this has been asked/mentioned upthread....

I preface my question by saying that I recognize the weight and responsibility that comes with marriage and that all are advised to avoid entering that COVENANT lightly. I also recognize the necessity to be spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically, and financially healthy and whole (not perfect, but at least on solid footing) before entering into marriage.

Has the issue of HEALTHY sexual desires and appetites for single Christians been mentioned in this conversation?

What is a healthy, full-blooded Christian single supposed to do with their/our HEALTHY sexual desires? I emphasize healthy to note that as sex is (supposed to be) part of marriage, and marriage is honorable, that it all rolls together, if you will.

I think that's a HUGE PART of the overall "whining" and "lamenting". It's companionship and belonging across several levels: spiritual as well as natural, physical, emotional. Every HEALTHY human being wants to connect and belong to others in this way. And yes, there are several ways to connect with several people across these levels... and yet there's that one person (spouse) that the Lord would allow us to share that with, if we so desire. Marriage is an honorable desire.

I know that the Lord has promised me marriage. I've gotten more prophecies that I can count concerning this in addition to what He has spoken to my heart. Further, I would say that as the Lord has given me HEALTHY sexual desires, would the Lord give/tease me with such desires and not provide the means for me to fulfill those desires, as those desires and the fulfillment of these desires are IN HIS DIVINE WILL?

I've been waiting a LONG TIME. A LONG TIME. A LONG TIME for marriage and to express myself sexually with my husband in a HEALTHY way. I have fulfilled a great deal of these sexual desires with food. (And I believe that this happens with A LOT OF WOMEN (and maybe some men). So many of these women in the church are overweight because they eat a lot... emotionally.... and there are some slim women who do the same thing... only they either have VERY FAST METABOLISMS or they binge and purge....

So how to balance/speak to the HEALTHY sexual desires of Christian singles? What's the answer to someone who's been waiting a LONG TIME (try FOREVER)? And who may be at the breaking point to fall?


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 11, 2009)

Shinka said:


> Thank for responding and providing clarification. _When you say godly fellowships, does this include dating?_
> 
> 
> I guess I'm really asking about what might be consider "pre-relationship" or christiam dating class... Which be the the prerequisite for the premarital class.
> ...


 
I personally don't believe in monogamy before premarital class and engagement. Do you know that most men don't make that move until they see that someone else has an interest in you? If you are committed to him and he knows you want to be married then......... He can drag that thing on for decades. But let a man know that you WILL be seeing other men. They'll propose within 6 months, THAT'S if you're keeping your legs closed and your hands and mouth(we're all grown right?) to ourselves.

I think once saints decide to be "exclusive" they should enter premarital class to see if it's the will of God to marry each other. Once the interest is there, not waiting months or years. If you meet someone who you think," You know, I wouldn't mind being his wife." and he feels the same about you and is considering you THEN you need guidance.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> A question..... Maybe this has been asked/mentioned upthread....
> 
> I preface my question by saying that I recognize the weight and responsibility that comes with marriage and that all are advised to avoid entering that COVENANT lightly. I also recognize the necessity to be spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically, and financially healthy and whole (not perfect, but at least on solid footing) before entering into marriage.
> 
> ...


 
Ok, I'm going to come out of my incognegro state a little to address this. This is also something that I usually only talk about in the bootcamps because I can't express everything that needs to be said in a post and I don't like for women ESPECIALLY Christian women to expose their personal lives like this on a public forum.

When DH and I got saved we were separated and going through a brutal divorce. We got saved, we didn't divorce but we still hated each other I was holy and could not have sex ANYMORE!!!! I could have had sex with DH but as I said I HATED HIM AND HE HATED ME!!! We went YEARS without having sex. We had to choose to be holy and have no other options outside of our marriage. WE.DID.NOT.LIKE.EACH.OTHER.AT.ALL 

So what's a girl to do? Well I was holy so, no more whoring. I was holy, so no ummm, plastic or vibrating assistance. Prayer works along with cold showers!!! Coming out of the world I had views and beliefs about sex that were NOT according to knowledge. I also had to change my lifestyle. No more listening to love songs, no romantic movies, no soap operas etc. If you can't have sex, watching and listening to songs about love, falling in love and getting sex is NOT going to help. 

Fire needs fuel to burn. If you allow your flesh to ponder on sex and romance it is gonna show off. Masterbation does not resolve but the situation worse. Your flesh is gonna want more, it CAN'T be satisfied. You give it an inch it's GOING to take a mile. If you're struggling with remaining abstainate(sp?) your flesh is being allowed some treats somewhere and you need to ask the Lord where you're giving it place. Little flashes are gonna occur but you have to take those flashes, those thoughts and punish the snot out of them with the word of God pertaining to sex.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Ok, I'm going to come out of my incognegro state a little to address this. This is also something that I usually only talk about in the bootcamps because I can't express everything that needs to be said in a post and I don't like for women ESPECIALLY Christian women to expose their personal lives like this on a public forum.
> 
> When DH and I got saved we were separated and going through a brutal divorce. We got saved, we didn't divorce but we still hated each other I was holy and could not have sex ANYMORE!!!! I could have had sex with DH but as I said I HATED HIM AND HE HATED ME!!! We went YEARS without having sex. We had to choose to be holy and have no other options outside of our marriage. WE.DID.NOT.LIKE.EACH.OTHER.AT.ALL
> 
> ...


 
I appreciate your candid response, Ms.Honey. What you say is real, and true, and honest here.

I don't know what the other (active sex) side is like because I haven't been on that side yet. I know that this (non-sex) side is probably A TRILLION TIMES EASIER to deal with.... I also concur about avoiding "aids" and other things to seemingly meet those needs.

Plus I've been there, done that re. hearing the "cool down" techniques.... sometimes they work, sometimes I end up eating a bunch of cupcakes...sigh....

My question was in reference to the bigger point of a person's desire for marriage and the Lord's divine will in operation concerning marriage for a person. Maybe this is a better way to ask it:

If it is not in the Lord's will for a person to marry, would they then also not have any sexual desires? Would they be a modern-day eunuch(sp?), e.g., one who has little to no (healthy) sexual desires?


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## PinkPebbles (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> All good points, esp. the bolded....
> 
> Looks like I'm the bridge between the counterpoints between Ms.Honey and Bunny77 (using these two posters based on what I've picked up browsing the thread).
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for your testimony and breaking it down. 

Most of us start in stage #2 because we are young and vibrant. But as time goes on I can see how one can easily slip into stage #1.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I appreciate your candid response, Ms.Honey. What you say is real, and true, and honest here.
> 
> I don't know what the other (active sex) side is like because I haven't been on that side yet. I know that this (non-sex) side is probably A TRILLION TIMES EASIER to deal with.... I also concur about avoiding "aids" and other things to seemingly meet those needs.
> 
> ...


 
No, God won't take their sexual desires away from them. They're natural and a part of us and they're good. What happens is that when you put sex in it's proper perspective those overwhelming, "Lawd help me please, what I am I going to do", moments become few and far apart and eventually become a non issue. Plus seeing a good looking man releases good endorphins and can be refreshing to your mind and body. 

Having sexual desires doesn't mean it needs to end in sexual activity. One time DH brought me a glass of water and I said, "Thanks, you are soooo sesssy" He said,"Well you can have some of this sessy if you want"  Well I didn't "want" that day but I was light as a feather off of that high for the rest of the day not even realizing why til later Seeing Djimon Hounsou has the same effect and I know THAT ain't never gonna happen

We have to learn to stop thinking of our flesh as "ME" but instead of it as only one PART of me, albeit that part that needs to be monitored and controlled like the lil psychiatric patient that it is If you punish it with the Word of God, the flesh will behave and won't give you a stitch of trouble.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> If it is not in the Lord's will for a person to marry, would they then also not have any sexual desires? Would they be a modern-day eunuch(sp?), e.g., one who has little to no (healthy) sexual desires?





the desire for sex is innate from God so that when we do get married we will lust for our spouse. imo it is not God's will for us to marry but it is His pleasure to allow us to do so if everything else is in his will.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> d controlled like the lil psychiatric patient that it is



That right there is funny!


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## HWAY (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar, I realy appreciate your posts and your candor.  I can relate because I was in a similar state before I married.  I tried very hard to be content as a single despite knowing marriage was in my future.  I was celibate for over 10 years. I kept busy and devoted myself to being a good mother and church activities.  However, I was depressed and did not look after my best interests.  I can look back now and realize why I made certain decisions. 

My situation was different from yours because I was involved in a cultish religion. However, I know how it feels when one wishes to marry and feels frustration and longing.  

I can relate to seeing older single, anxious women who either became unevenly yoked or grew shrewish.  

I'm married now but as I read your posts, I remember the pain and frustration.  Your desire for marriage is healthy and you will marry.  Be careful.  Be careful.  You are young and beautiful.  Allow no one to make you feel less than your beautiful, intelligent self.  Continue celebrating your relationship with your Heavenly Father.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> *No, God won't take their sexual desires away from them. They're natural and a part of us and they're good.* What happens is that when you put sex in it's proper perspective those overwhelming, "Lawd help me please, what I am I going to do", moments become few and far apart and eventually become a non issue. Plus seeing a good looking man releases good endorphins and can be refreshing to your mind and body.
> 
> Having sexual desires doesn't mean it needs to end in sexual activity. One time DH brought me a glass of water and I said, "Thanks, you are soooo sesssy" He said,"Well you can have some of this sessy if you want"  Well I didn't "want" that day but I was light as a feather off of that high for the rest of the day not even realizing why til later Seeing Djimon Hounsou has the same effect and I know THAT ain't never gonna happen
> 
> We have to learn to stop thinking of our flesh as "ME" but instead of it as only one PART of me, albeit that part that needs to be monitored and controlled like the lil psychiatric patient that it is If you punish it with the Word of God, the flesh will behave and won't give you a stitch of trouble.


 


1star said:


> the desire for sex is innate from God so that when we do get married we will lust for our spouse. imo it is not God's will for us to marry but it is His pleasure to allow us to do so if everything else is in his will.


 

1star: I understand what you're saying.... We have free will.... in our free will, we can choose to marry. I have heard/thought about it this way (as with anything): if we ask the Lord for an answer to do/not do/have/not have something, He will answer/give direction but He won't force us to follow His direction because then that's not free will.

So a sidebar question would be this: say a person chooses to marry and they marry someone they sincerely thought/believed it was the Lord's divine will that they should marry this person (not whether or not they should marry at all, but if they should marry this particular person), and the marriage sours: is it because the person should not have married AT ALL (disobedience) or if they married a person outside the will of God/the wrong person?

Per the bolded in Ms.Honey's post: I ask again: would the Lord give a person such sexual desires without providing the opportunity for those desires to be fulfilled (in a healthy way, e.g., sex WITHIN marriage)?


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## Evolving78 (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> No, God won't take their sexual desires away from them. They're natural and a part of us and they're good. What happens is that when you put sex in it's proper perspective those overwhelming, "Lawd help me please, what I am I going to do", moments become few and far apart and eventually become a non issue. Plus seeing a good looking man releases good endorphins and can be refreshing to your mind and body.
> 
> Having sexual desires doesn't mean it needs to end in sexual activity. One time DH brought me a glass of water and I said, "Thanks, you are soooo sesssy" He said,"Well you can have some of this sessy if you want"  Well I didn't "want" that day but I was light as a feather off of that high for the rest of the day not even realizing why til later Seeing Djimon Hounsou has the same effect and I know THAT ain't never gonna happen
> 
> We have to learn to stop thinking of our flesh as "ME" but instead of it as only one PART of me, albeit that part that needs to be monitored and controlled like the lil psychiatric patient that it is If you punish it with the Word of God, the flesh will behave and won't give you a stitch of trouble.



i needed to hear this!  thank you!


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## deola (Feb 11, 2009)

Ok Ms,Honey here goes

_Ms.Honey, clicking on the thanks button was not just enough for your contributions to this thread. I just had to pm you.

I wish a lot of christian women will train their spirits to perceive things the way God's word defines them and not try to bring worldly views into issues where it concerns our lives.

We are *here* on your points in this thread.

I thank God for women like you who do not sugarcoat God's word when it concerns sensitive issues like marriage._


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> 1star: I understand what you're saying.... We have free will.... in our free will, we can choose to marry. I have heard/thought about it this way (as with anything): if we ask the Lord for an answer to do/not do/have/not have something, He will answer/give direction but He won't force us to follow His direction because then that's not free will.
> 
> So a sidebar question would be this: say a person chooses to marry and they marry someone they sincerely thought/believed it was the Lord's divine will that they should marry this person (not whether or not they should marry at all, but if they should marry this particular person), and the marriage sours: is it because the person should not have married AT ALL (disobedience) or if they married a person outside the will of God/the wrong person?
> 
> Per the bolded in Ms.Honey's post: I ask again: would the Lord give a person such sexual desires without providing the opportunity for those desires to be fulfilled (in a healthy way, e.g., sex WITHIN marriage)?


 
Yes. It's part of what makes us male and female. It's hormonal.

 Women who have chosen on their own still enjoy the pleasure of appreciating a good looking man. You really have to ask one of the sisters who've made that decision or have come into agreement with the Lord if He's decided it's not going to be fulfilling enough for them. 

 I have raised my kids and DO NOT WANT ANYMORE!!! I still get the, "I want to have a baby!!" urge and melt when I hold my grandson. I don't want to lose it, it's fun AND it passes but I make that nut go sit in a corner someplace and get out of my face


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Yes. It's part of what makes us male and female. It's hormonal.
> 
> *Women who have chosen on their own still enjoy the pleasure of appreciating a good looking man. You really have to ask one of the sisters who've made that decision or have come into agreement with the Lord if He's decided it's not going to be fulfilling enough for them.*
> 
> I have raised my kids and DO NOT WANT ANYMORE!!! I still get the, "I want to have a baby!!" urge and melt when I hold my grandson. I don't want to lose it, it's fun AND it passes but I make that nut go sit in a corner someplace and get out of my face


 
Per the bolded: I need your help to understand what you're saying here....


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> Per the bolded: I need your help to understand what you're saying here....


 
We need to talk on the phone, sending a pm.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 11, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> 1star: I understand what you're saying.... We have free will.... in our free will, we can choose to marry. I have heard/thought about it this way (as with anything): if we ask the Lord for an answer to do/not do/have/not have something, He will answer/give direction but He won't force us to follow His direction because then that's not free will.
> 
> So a sidebar question would be this: say a person chooses to marry and they marry someone they sincerely thought/believed it was the Lord's divine will that they should marry this person (not whether or not they should marry at all, but if they should marry this particular person), and the marriage sours: is it because the person should not have married AT ALL (disobedience) or if they married a person outside the will of God/the wrong person?




Well, as usual just my opinion based on what I've read or have been taught:

Marriage is a choice no matter what (un/saved, with/out asking Him). There is no disobedience wrt marriage since He would not tell someone not to marry. If anything He would tell someone that his/her choice of mate is bad/good and, I would imagine, if the person is saved He would tell him/her such, whether s/he asked Him or not (through the HS and/or his/her natural authority). 

Of course I have not read the whole bible but so far I have not read where marriage is a blessing (I know it says that children are) or that women are forbidden to position themselves to be found or even that God blesses unions. (Plz provide me w/ references if you have them tia).   The verse about "who can find...." does not exclude women from looking either imo (I know u & MsH will not agree LOL).  

I don't think that God restricts anyone from marrying so there is no disobedience there. Eunichs don't exist anymore and were for protecting the concubines or something.

I've been typing this on my BB for like 2 hrs & I know it is messed up.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 11, 2009)

oh FS btw I have chosen not to marry (subject to change if I decide not to be so selfish) & I am celebate/abstinate (sp). I have urges too but that is natural & they do go away. This may be tmi (but if it helps) my urges are usually hormonal during my cyclic fertile time before my period and (for me) in the spring time.


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## PaperClip (Feb 11, 2009)

1star said:


> Well, as usual just my opinion based on what I've read or have been taught:
> 
> Marriage is a choice no matter what (un/saved, with/out asking Him). There is no disobedience wrt marriage since He would not tell someone not to marry. If anything He would tell someone that his/her choice of mate is bad/good and, I would imagine, if the person is saved He would tell him/her such, whether s/he asked Him or not (through the HS and/or his/her natural authority).
> 
> ...


 
I understand what you're saying here....

Per the bolded: Hebrews 13:4 may be a justifiable reference:

KJV: Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Amplified: Let marriage be held in honor (esteemed worthy, precious, of great price, and especially dear) in all things. And thus let the marriage bed be undefiled (kept undishonored); for God will judge and punish the unchaste [all guilty of sexual vice] and adulterous.

The Message: Honor marriage, and guard the sacredness of sexual intimacy between wife and husband. God draws a firm line against casual and illicit sex.


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

This thread took all kind of turns , since I last saw it

I gotta bow out now because umm I fell hard in the area being discussed now


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> *I personally don't believe in monogamy before premarital class and engagement. Do you know that most men don't make that move until they see that someone else has an interest in you? If you are committed to him and he knows you want to be married then......... He can drag that thing on for decades. But let a man know that you WILL be seeing other men. They'll propose within 6 months, THAT'S if you're keeping your legs closed and your hands and mouth(we're all grown right?) to ourselves.*


 


omg @ the bolded, THIS is what came into my spirit to do about my situation,  to tell him 'NO MORE' and then tell him I want to see others 'without that being involved'  

I had the feeling like you said it was the only way

but I figure either he will get on one knee or go ape boo boo nuts on meerplexed, or can I really do it? and would it not drive me nuts?  

But I am also torn , he is willing to get married NOW, its me that keeps pushing it back,  because I dont want us to get married just to 'relieve my spiritual anguish and anxieties' about this, he does not feel like I do about Marriage, he feels he is LOVING me and married to me already in his heart,  well let me rephrase that, I feel that way too,  but he doesnt have the mixed messages and anguish like I do



Ladies I have an even deeper question,  is it going to the court house that makes it an honorable union in the Lord's eyes, I mean we almost did that a million times,  how does a piece of paper make it all right,  in the days of old didnt they just have a 'ceremony' or celebration and take their vows before the LORD,  can you take those vows without the piece of paper?

I am asking this seriously because I have been torn over this so long,  and I went with 'the vows in our hearts'  not the piece of paper thing and now I am here and I just , well need help to understand

Is marriage or the two becoming one,  a piece of paper, or vows in ones heart taken before the LORD in LOVE and HONOR and TRUTH?

Should I just let him take me to vegas or the court house and get the paper then do the 'celebration' ceromony with close friends and family

I mean will that piece of paper really make this whole thing more righteous? will that give me peace and assure me that I am relieved of sin?

I am asking this so seriously  because this is all the confusion that got me where I AM now


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 11, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> omg @ the bolded, THIS is what came into my spirit to do about my situation, to tell him 'NO MORE' and then tell him I want to see others 'without that being involved'
> 
> I had the feeling like you said it was the only way
> 
> ...


 
The two become one flesh during sex, it doesn't have to be married sex. That is why God says to wait until marriage to become chemically bound to another. The ending of the relationship causes a "ripping" or "tearing" apart and causes pain. 

Your doubt may very well be a warning from the Lord Iris. Wait on the Lord and take the premarital class at one of your churches and stop being alone with him. You can not control yourselves. The devil has entered into your relationship and it is going to be hard as heck to get him out of it because it's ungodly.

ETA:The pain, tearing, ripping is the tearing asunder that the Lord talks about.


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> The two become one flesh during sex, it doesn't have to be married sex. That is why God says to wait until marriage to become chemically bound to another. The ending of the relationship causes a "ripping" or "tearing" apart and causes pain.
> 
> Your doubt may very well be a warning from the Lord Iris. Wait on the Lord and take the premarital class at one of your churches and stop being alone with him. You can not control yourselves. The devil has entered into your relationship and it is going to be hard as heck to get him out of it because it's ungodly.
> 
> ETA:The pain, tearing, ripping is the tearing asunder that the Lord talks about.



Yes I do understand that , the sexual act is 'spiritual'  marriage and the two becoming one,  thats what confuses me even more that a piece of paper is needed.......you get what I am saying?


Weird indeed he literally called right when I was making that post,  and he is playing in church on Sunday , so we eased into to many subjects from there, including this,   I told him of the anguish I go through and he said 'I know'   I was crying and just telling him how I feel,  he said you have to pray on it, but we can go get married this weekend. 

sorry for all the questions, I know my answer already,  sigh,  Ive already begun the process,  SEEKING THE LORD ON ALL OF THIS, until I get my answer from him and him alone


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## discobiscuits (Feb 11, 2009)

*


Irresistible said:



			omg @ the bolded, THIS is what came into my spirit to do about my situation,  to tell him 'NO MORE' and then tell him I want to see others 'without that being involved'  I had the feeling like you said it was the only way
...
 but I figure either he will get on one knee or go ape boo boo nuts on meerplexed, or can I really do it? and would it not drive me nuts?  

Click to expand...


This reads as if you are trying to play games or manipulate him into doing what you want (we all can discuss your specific situation in greater detail in the thread that you started on it).



Irresistible said:



			Ladies I have an even deeper question,
		
Click to expand...

*


Irresistible said:


> * is it going to the court house that makes it an honorable union in the Lord's eyes, *


*

No, it does not (imo). However, "common law" unions are frowned upon as to most major religions, a couple must have a ceremony and recite some words in front of witnesses and their respective god to make it "real" or honored by their god. 

By the same token, the ceremony is a natural representation (not really the word I want to use but I can't think of the one that fits) of a spiritual union. To me a marriage ceremony is like the laws God gave man - it is something man requires/asked for/wants/needs, not a requirement of God. He just requires sexual morality and honoring marriage (the spiritual and sexual/physical union of one man and one woman). Even a divorce is not "really" honored by God - divorce is what man asked for so Moses agreed to let them do it - God never agreed to it or authorized it. 

*


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## aribell (Feb 11, 2009)

deola said:


> Ok I haven't read through this whole thread but so far some of the responses have been.....interesting to say the least.
> 
> *I'm of the opinion that if one makes her relationship with God the greatest most important thing in her life, she will walk in ALL of God's blessings/promises for her. *
> 
> ...


 
I'm so glad to read your perspective, since the Lord has done something similar in me as well.  I'm not married yet, but I was all about the "I enjoy my life with the Lord so much that I don't care about getting married."  I've never been one to be frustrated over being able to find someone worthwhile to date...my mind has just been elsewhere (heavenwards).  But one day the Lord would not let my spirit rest at all until I _submitted_ to _His will_ that I be married.

Again, I'm not yet married, but I am 100% convinced that Paul's "advice" was deeply true, that the single state is a blessed one of unique focus upon the Lord, but that it is the Lord who decides who will and will not have that gift.  I do think that it is true what has been said of Paul's advice in Corinithians, that when he encouraged singles not to marry, that he was speaking to a particular generation in the midst of a lot of tribulation and that that situation provides context for his words.  _However_, just because we are not in the same situation that Paul and the early church was in does not mean that marriage will not equally be a snare/distraction to us...and _every Christian_ should weigh that seriously.

Sometimes I think we can get so caught up in praying, "Please Lord, don't make me single," that we really don't take the time to open our hearts and really ask (and _really _be willing to hear) whether we really could *serve Him better* (because this is what it's really about) as a single person.  As I mentioned, I've had the opportunity to know a lot of nuns and some priests, and other individuals who have felt called to the single life.  And I think there is a misconception about it that if you feel called to the single life, then it must be "easy" for you, that you don't feel the weight of that singleness.  And that's not true.  They feel that sacrifice.  It is a daily sacrifice.  Paul felt it as well.  But none of them would have known that that's where the Lord was calling them unless they had opened themselves up to the possibility of offering the Lord that sacrifice.  

In the end, I don't think it's about God giving us what we want so much as it's about properly discerning just where and how He has called us to serve Him and others.


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## Irresistible (Feb 11, 2009)

1star said:


> *
> 
> This reads as if you are trying to play games or manipulate him into doing what you want (we all can discuss your specific situation in greater detail in the thread that you started on it).
> 
> ...



yeah re; the first paragraph,  I didnt feel in the end it would work,  the thing is , I have issues,  obviously,  because I just dont want to feel like he is willing to get married because I have expressed my spiritual issues over it,   I want it to 'feel' different,  but its like its too late,  because I made it an issue, its going to feel like thats why we are going to get married, even though my heart and soul tell me its simply out of his love that he is willing,  my mind is like ' I pressured the situation' 

I do feel just like you regarding your last paragraph,  exactly and I feel very strong about it,  so we can go get the piece of paper, but the important part to me is the 'ceremony' of vows taken before the LORD in front of all those that we love as witnesses

Thats what I meant exactly

I also feel if we went to the beach and sat looking into eachother's eyes and made our vows to eachother from our hearts in the sight of the LORD 

that to me would be 'joining in holy matrimony' , if that union is blessed of the LORD and chosen of course,  the piece of paper can come later


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 12, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Yes I do understand that , the sexual act is 'spiritual' marriage and the two becoming one, thats what confuses me even more that a piece of paper is needed.......you get what I am saying?
> 
> 
> Weird indeed he literally called right when I was making that post, and he is playing in church on Sunday , so we eased into to many subjects from there, including this, I told him of the anguish I go through and he said 'I know' I was crying and just telling him how I feel, he said you have to pray on it, but we can go get married this weekend.
> ...


 
Please Iris, just don't make any drastic decisions. If you marry, God is going to expect you to be married to him TIL ONE OF YOU DIES!!!! FOREVER!!!!!. What's 6 months or a year in premarital when you're going to be married for the next 40 years? Please don't think that God is gonna be please because you eloped to keep from sinning. SOMEBODY has to stop and do what Jesus says. It should be him especially if you plan on him leading you. He's not doing it so far. He can't present you to the Lord without spot or blemish if you two are fornicating.

I'm going to be blunt. If he doesn't fear God enough not to have sex with you what makes you think that he will fear God enough after you marry him not to cheat on you? How can he lead your familyif he can't do something as simple as keep his hands to himself? Please marry someone who fears God girl. The rest of your life DEPENDS on it.erplexed


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## aribell (Feb 12, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> lol no girl , your adding 'extra' to what is being said. *When one is saying they believe God can bring him or bring it together, that means they dont have to take it upon themselves to make that moment happen, no beams, no brands  a simple passing in the street, while meeting a freind in a coffee shop, he comes to your job, he sees you in church, you pass him in the Grocery store , he sees you getting out of your car to go into a store, a destiny meeting is just that destined. Thats all, I mean he didnt say dont live in the meantime, but while living being lead by him in all things, knowing he will guide your steps and direct your path, most of us living this way are not all balled up in confusion waiting for every minute detail , or we do nothing, no its not like that at all, its just living and trusting and not chasing down what should be and is going to given to us anyway in his timing. *


 
This is a good point.  Whether we are looking to find a mate or not, we should be out and about living life...meeting new people, doing new things, engaging in ministry, forming friendships, fellowshiping in godly community, developing mentor-mentee friendships.  If _our lives and relationships _are in order the way that they are supposed to be, then we will have beaucoup possibilities to meet "the one" without necessarily _trying_ (i.e., without having to be "concerned" about it).

And if we are loving God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, and seeking first the Kindgdom _then_ we can be content in whatever state we're in because we know that we're _exactly_ where the Lord would have us be.  If we were lacking anything, He would give it.


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## Shinka (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I personally don't believe in monogamy before premarital class and engagement. Do you know that most men don't make that move until they see that someone else has an interest in you? If you are committed to him and he knows you want to be married then......... He can drag that thing on for decades. But let a man know that you WILL be seeing other men. They'll propose within 6 months, THAT'S if you're keeping your legs closed and your hands and mouth(we're all grown right?) to ourselves.
> 
> I think once saints decide to be "exclusive" they should enter premarital class to see if it's the will of God to marry each other. Once the interest is there, not waiting months or years. If you meet someone who you think," You know, I wouldn't mind being his wife." and he feels the same about you and is considering you THEN you need guidance.



Thank you for the insight. I did this when me and x-So ( hurts to say this) broke up recently. I was encouraged to date to distract myself. I didn't like my dates, but when I happen to mention I was dating, he got all tissy about it.  Then about 2 weeks later he like emotional broked down and asked me back, and decided to work on the "issues" I was having within our relationship.  We were planning for marriage, thats when the whole children misunderstanding was clarified.

So I'm back at a square one and will definetly date and use this advice, not as an aim to get a man to commit. I just think it helps me guard my heart more and let any man I'm not too available to him. If he wants to be monogamous that it wil be a mutual discussion and decision ( which I always try to have with a man anyway), not assumed.


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## Shinka (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> The two become one flesh during sex, it doesn't have to be married sex. That is why God says to wait until marriage to become chemically bound to another. The ending of the relationship causes a "ripping" or "tearing" apart and causes pain.
> 
> Your doubt may very well be a warning from the Lord Iris. Wait on the Lord and take the premarital class at one of your churches and stop being alone with him. You can not control yourselves. The devil has entered into your relationship and it is going to be hard as heck to get him out of it because it's ungodly.
> 
> ETA:The pain, tearing, ripping is the tearing asunder that the Lord talks about.




I understood sex connected folks ( spiritually), but I didn't think of it as *spiritual marriage*. Does God considered sexual partners married if they are Christians?

If so, if you had multiple sex partners in life, does God consider you and adulterer?
Can you point me to some scriptures on this?


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## Shinka (Feb 12, 2009)

1star said:


> Well, as usual just my opinion based on what I've read or have been taught:
> 
> Marriage is a choice no matter what (un/saved, with/out asking Him). There is no disobedience wrt marriage since He would not tell someone not to marry. If anything He would tell someone that his/her choice of mate is bad/good and, I would imagine, if the person is saved He would tell him/her such, whether s/he asked Him or not (through the HS and/or his/her natural authority).
> 
> ...



Question about bolded: I'm just curious where biblical do you get this?

The actual passage is below. I don't think of any place where its told for wife's to find husbands. It's not "who can find"....its he who finds? Do you have a different translation?

*He who finds a wife finds a good thing
and obtains favor from the Lord.* 


*—Proverbs 18:22*


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 12, 2009)

Shinka said:


> I understood sex connected folks ( spiritually), but I didn't think of it as *spiritual marriage*. Does God considered sexual partners married if they are Christians?
> 
> If so, if you had multiple sex partners in life, does God consider you and adulterer?
> Can you point me to some scriptures on this?


 
Marriage is not spiritual, it's fleshy. It ends on earth, we are not married in heaven. It is however guided by spiritual principles. No, God only considers it marriage if it is in line with the laws of the land. Common law marriages don't count. 
We are adulterers towards God when we fornicate. He is our husband spiritually and will only share His glory(you) with one person at a time, legally through marriage.

We become one flesh with EACH person we have sex with til one or the other dies. If it's 100, we're bound to 100.


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## Shinka (Feb 12, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> omg @ the bolded, THIS is what came into my spirit to do about my situation,  to tell him 'NO MORE' and then tell him I want to see others 'without that being involved'
> 
> I had the feeling like you said it was the only way
> 
> ...




I thought these passages may help in your prayers about this situation?

 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

  —2 Corinthians 6:14



_Not saying is an unbeliever, but the lawlessness part I think applies_

Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

  —Hebrews 13:4 

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
   —Ephesians 5:22-33




Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.   —1 Corinthians 7:1-5

*I don't have any advice ( nor do I think I'm qualified to advise), but hope these help *


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## discobiscuits (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Please Iris, just don't make any drastic decisions. If you marry, God is going to expect you to be married to him TIL ONE OF YOU DIES!!!! FOREVER!!!!!. What's 6 months or a year in premarital when you're going to be married for the next 40 years? Please don't think that God is gonna be please because you eloped to keep from sinning. SOMEBODY has to stop and do what Jesus says. It should be him especially if you plan on him leading you. He's not doing it so far. He can't present you to the Lord without spot or blemish if you two are fornicating.
> 
> I'm going to be blunt. If he doesn't fear God enough not to have sex with you what makes you think that he will fear God enough after you marry him not to cheat on you? How can he lead your familyif he can't do something as simple as keep his hands to himself? Please marry someone who fears God girl. The rest of your life DEPENDS on it.erplexed



This is why I don't like Paul's advice that people who can't be sexually inactive to marry (I don't disagree with it as it is still the best advice even today if the people getting married FEAR GOD). However, I've never seen marriage as a cure for promiscuity or extramarital sex.


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## Shinka (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Marriage is not spiritual, it's fleshy. It ends on earth, we are not married in heaven. It is however guided by spiritual principles. No, God only considers it marriage if it is in line with the laws of the land. Common law marriages don't count.
> We are adulterers towards God when we fornicate. He is our husband spiritually and will only share His glory(you) with one person at a time, legally through marriage.
> 
> We become one flesh with EACH person we have sex with til one or the other dies. If it's 100, we're bound to 100.




I don't know if it was on this board or else, but there is actually a prayer I used a year ago to break those bounds. I will try to find it for the ladies and post it on the forum or bump the page.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Marriage is ... fleshy. It ends on earth... It is however guided by spiritual principles. No, God only considers it marriage if it is in line with the laws of the land. Common law marriages don't count.



Thank you. To clarify: I am not condoning common law marriages just using as an example. You said more succinctly what I was trying to get across. 




Shinka said:


> Question about bolded: I'm just curious *where biblical do you get this*?
> 
> The actual passage is below. I don't think of any place where its told for wife's to find husbands. It's not "who can find"....its he who finds? Do you have a different translation?


Shinka, RE: the green - I didn't - I said it is my _opinion_ primarily because there is no where in the bible that instructs that the opposite is not true. Note that I did not say to go running around chasing men (a.k.a. pursue) but I am saying that (to my knowledge) God has not spoken to me spiritually or through my natural authority that I, a woman, cannot "look for" or be in a position to be found by a husband. I have yet for anyone (God or my ministerial staff) to tell me that a woman cannot put her profile on e-harmony (LOL).  Maybe my perspective is skewed. I've never had a problem with men "finding" me and I've turned down marriage proposals. I am constantly pursued by men as I am a "good catch", "rare", "valuable", "marriage material". I still don't fully understand where they get that from.

The story of Ruth and Boaz (via Naomi) is one of the examples that I've used in the past on this (there is an old thread on that topic). Anyway, even my former pastor taught us that what the bible says is just as important as what it does not say, and it does not say that a woman is not allowed to find a man. This has nothing to do with a translation and women rely too heavily on that Proverb and end up sad, lonely, dejected, frustrated etc. waiting on some man to "find" them. 

In one sense the connotation is that a wife or really more specifically, a virtuous woman, is something hidden to be found likened unto a gemstone that has to be dug out of the earth. However, the miner (the person doing the digging) must know where to look and do the work to mine the jewel. The jewel however, must be where it is supposed to be in order to be found. God is the One who places the jewel in a safe place, and presumably, leads the miner to the mine. Keep in mind that usually there are more jewels where that one came from. No jewel comes out of the ground cut and polished. That comes after it is dug up. 



> "A woman's heart should be so hidden in God that a man has to seek Him just to find her."
> — Max Lucado




I have a feeling Ima hafta clarify....


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## Irresistible (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Please Iris, just don't make any drastic decisions. If you marry, God is going to expect you to be married to him TIL ONE OF YOU DIES!!!! FOREVER!!!!!. What's 6 months or a year in premarital when you're going to be married for the next 40 years? Please don't think that God is gonna be please because you eloped to keep from sinning. SOMEBODY has to stop and do what Jesus says. It should be him especially if you plan on him leading you. He's not doing it so far. He can't present you to the Lord without spot or blemish if you two are fornicating.
> 
> I'm going to be blunt. If he doesn't fear God enough not to have sex with you what makes you think that he will fear God enough after you marry him not to cheat on you? How can he lead your familyif he can't do something as simple as keep his hands to himself? Please marry someone who fears God girl. The rest of your life DEPENDS on it.erplexed



Girl thank you!!! because that is my exact turmoil,  to keep from sinning!  I do hear you, it is not something I want to do for that reason either

and on the rest is the rest of the reasons for my turmoil,  I know he LOVES me , but yes his heart has to be honorable to the LORD and he has to love him,  I just been no good help with this girl, I am just as dishonorable in this area as he 

I know that I have to stand and seek the LORD seriously cause man I have been sinking fast for a while now,  just getting back up trying to figure all this out

I do agree on the premarital counseling and you know what you just gave me my first step,  We have already been dealt with so much now,  we absolutely need to take some steps further with it,  with God and God's way

so do you do Premarital conseling Ms Honey?

maybe you should


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 12, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Girl thank you!!! because that is my exact turmoil, to keep from sinning! I do hear you, it is not something I want to do for that reason either
> 
> and on the rest is the rest of the reasons for my turmoil, I know he LOVES me , but yes his heart has to be honorable to the LORD and he has to love him, I just been no good help with this girl, I am just as dishonorable in this area as he
> 
> ...


 
Hon, you have to pray your way out of this backsliding state, he has to pray his own way out. You two also have to realize that you are getting each other into some SERIOUS trouble with God, that's not acting in love towards each other. The wages of sin is death for Christians too. Everytime he sleeps with you and you sleep with him you are causing death to occur in each others life. EACH TIME Y'ALL HAVE SEX!!!!! You have loving emotional feeling towards each other but you two aren't loving each other.


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## Shinka (Feb 12, 2009)

1star said:


> Thank you. To clarify: I am not condoning common law marriages just using as an example. You said more succinctly what I was trying to get across.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for that perspective. I never thought of Ruth story in the manner. ( please trust I have a profile on two sites...) So I don't think a women shouldn't place her self. I just think men find their wives, which is why I expect them to propose...

Thanks for expounding...deep


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## Irresistible (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Hon, you have to pray your way out of this backsliding state, he has to pray his own way out. You two also have to realize that you are getting each other into some SERIOUS trouble with God, that's not acting in love towards each other. The wages of sin is death for Christians too. Everytime he sleeps with you and you sleep with him you are causing death to occur in each others life. EACH TIME Y'ALL HAVE SEX!!!!! You have loving emotional feeling towards each other but you two aren't loving each other.



oh God! 

  

I hear you *gulp*


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## Irresistible (Feb 12, 2009)

1star said:


> That right there is funny!



yeah that was


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## deola (Feb 12, 2009)

1star said:


> This is why I don't like Paul's advice that people who can't be sexually inactive to marry (I don't disagree with it as it is still the best advice even today if the people getting married FEAR GOD). However, I've never seen marriage as a cure for promiscuity or extramarital sex.



This is so true! My husband told me of a friend of his who was a pastor on campus back in university (incidentally I knew the guy through mutual friends) who got married to this girl he was courting just because they couldn't wait to have sex.

The marriage broke up less than a year. The way I see it, they did not take the time to hear from God or know each other enough to agree to marry. They were driven by their lust for each other and it was not enough to keep them together. And believe me, Paul's advice was their justification to marry!erplexed

I also know another christian couple who because they were 'burning' went ahead and got married in court (without the knowledge of their folks). They moved in together and later had their wedding ceremony. They also went with Paul's advice. They have been married for about 7 years or so and have 3 kids.

Now what is the difference between these 2 couples? Even though they married because they were 'burning' with hard to control passion for each other, the second couple obviously did some getting-to-know-you-indepth-studies of themselves and I believe had their spiritual radar tuned to God's will for their lives.


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## Mis007 (Feb 12, 2009)

[/quote]



Ms.Honey said:


> Please Iris, just don't make any drastic decisions. If you marry, *God is going to expect you to be married to him TIL ONE OF YOU DIES!!!! FOREVER!!!!!.* What's 6 months or a year in premarital when you're going to be married for the next 40 years? Please don't think that God is gonna be please because you eloped to keep from sinning. SOMEBODY has to stop and do what Jesus says. It should be him especially if you plan on him leading you. He's not doing it so far. He can't present you to the Lord without spot or blemish if you two are fornicating.
> 
> _I agree._
> 
> ...


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## Mis007 (Feb 12, 2009)

_May I ask a question,  ladies are all these men you meet/date chrisitians. The reason that I ask is that alot of what is being discussed I would find that the non-chrisitian male would not be that receptive to it. Most of the males that I have dated have been non-chrisitian although they were raised in a christian household but do not practice per se. I am just wondering how do you brooch a subject that you will not participate in any sexual encounters outside of marriage with said person. TIA_


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## discobiscuits (Feb 12, 2009)

APOLOGIES FOR LONG POST  



Mis007 said:


> _May I ask a question,  ladies are all these men you meet/date chrisitians. The reason that I ask is that alot of what is being discussed I would find that the non-chrisitian male would not be that receptive to it. Most of the males that I have dated have been non-chrisitian although they were raised in a christian household but do not practice per se. I am just wondering how do you brooch a subject that you will not participate in any sexual encounters outside of marriage with said person. TIA_


Let's see. I go out with/date/"fellowship" (LOL) with both. My intent is not to marry anyone who is not a Christian. With that said, the non-Christian men that I do go out with I keep at arm's length so to speak. I let them know from jump that we can only be associates or what have you. 

Currently I have two men interested in me. One is a self proclaimed non-religious type who states that he does not believe in Jesus or the bible but does believe that there is a God. We've had prolonged discussions on religion and now he wants to visit my church because some of the things that I've said in relation to God, Jesus, marriage, religion, etc. he has never heard and he is really interested. 

Now, do I think that he is interested in going to church and specifically my church so that he can get to me? I doubt it.  I've had that happen before and I can tell the ones who say that to try to get closer to me (or draw me away) vs. someone with a genuine interest. My experience has been that the ones who are trying to get to me through attending church will only go to my church and only with me. He wants to attend whether I go or not. He has genuine curiosity and interest. He even went and looked for his unused bible to verify some of the things that I said while we talk on the phone. We broadcast our services on tv and online so I did point him to those resources as well. My hope is that he becomes a believer. 

I also told him the night before last that I don't want to waste his time as we have nothing of substance in common and he can only be an acquaintance -not even a friend- to me and nothing more. 

As for the Christian men. WOW. I sometimes feel that the NC ones (that I've met) have more sense than the C ones I've met. I actually got more respect and more honor from the NC men regarding the no-sex thing than some C men. I actually give the side eye to some C men. The C men that I've encountered (from my church or not) start off okay then the truth comes out. Nearly every one of them has tried to have sex with me or at least be physically intimate in some way with me whereas most, not all, of the NC men respect my decision and even more so if they "test" me and I pass. Meaning, like Ms.Honey said: I keep all my body parts to myself (hands, mouth). 

The most disappointing part was the C men I've dated from my church who behaved that way and I KNOW what is taught there so I KNOW that they know they were wrong. 

NOTE: I do not want to give an incorrect image of my church or the men there - this was just my experience and it was only 3 men out of over what?, 15,000-20,000+ members. Those same three men are still unmarried and one even sent a written apology out. Man, when I learned the truth about him & his ways (not gay or bi) my jaw was on the floor. Thank God for people who give you the rundown ahead of time. (I have a male BFF who was friends with said man and was there when the man hit on me and told me "Don't do eeettt!!!").

So I said all that to say, you never know and I do not turn down a man strictly b/c he is a NC as God may have put us on the same path for that period of time b/c He may want one of us to learn something or to use me as a seed planter. I've done that in the past and years later I run into the guy and he's saved. 

Oh! Just remembered - true story. My 1st relationship or real BF was when I was 19. He was seven years older than me and Catholic (non-practicing) . I told him from day one I'd never marry him b/c he was Catholic and that we were on different pages and I did not want to take the chance of having children with him and the Protestant/Catholic thing be an issue. He said the kids could go to both churches and make up their own minds. I said no that is confusion. We were together 4 years and generally happily so. He asked me to marry him. I said no. He was still Catholic. We stopped communicating. About another four years passed and he got married - to a Protestant and after he had converted. I was never happier for him. We had two conversations, one a week before his wedding and one about two years after cause he was in the hospital recovering from a heart attack. He told me that he converted partly because of the things that he and I had discussed about Christianity and that the seeds had been planted but when his wife came along they were watered and grew. 

So I know that God does work and I don't not talk to a guy b/c he is a NC, I just categorize the type of or nature of our dealings and keep it moving. 



deola said:


> This is so true! My husband told me of a friend of his who was a pastor on campus back in university (incidentally I knew the guy through mutual friends) who got married to this girl he was courting just because they couldn't wait to have sex.
> ...
> I also know another christian couple who because they were 'burning' went ahead and got married in court
> ...
> Now what is the difference between these 2 couples? Even though they married because they were 'burning' with hard to control passion for each other, the second couple obviously did some getting-to-know-you-indepth-studies of themselves and I believe had their spiritual radar tuned to God's will for their lives.



Interesting & wow.


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## Mis007 (Feb 12, 2009)

1star said:


> APOLOGIES FOR LONG POST
> 
> 
> Let's see. I go out with/date/"fellowship" (LOL) with both. My intent is not to marry anyone who is not a Christian. With that said, the non-Christian men that I do go out with I keep at arm's length so to speak. _*I let them know from jump that we can only be associates or what have you.*_
> ...


 
_Thank you 1star for taking the time to offer your advice I agree whole heartdly with what you have written. I to have found a significant difference between the C/NC male and it's not all good.  I hear what you are saying about not wanting to marry a NC, the thing is that I  would hate to narrow my choices of eligable men NC or otherwise. I  have hear d from most of my christian female friends that the church has slim pickings of eligable C men so for many of us our search will often take us beyond the church. _

_Thanks again I have noted some pointers..._


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 12, 2009)

Mis007 said:


> _Thank you 1star for taking the time to offer your advice I agree whole heartdly with what you have written. I to have found a significant difference between the C/NC male and it's not all good. I hear what you are saying about not wanting to marry a NC, the thing is that I would hate to narrow my choices of eligable men NC or otherwise. I have hear d from most of my christian female friends that the church has slim pickings of eligable C men so for many of us our search will often take us beyond the church. _
> 
> _Thanks again I have noted some pointers..._


 
Ladies, DO NOT fellowship (date) unsaved men or unconverted Christian men What does the light and darkness have in common? Be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers. They do not live by the same standards God has set for us. These relationships begin with a deficit. That includes those who convert Monday and ask you out on Thursday. They are not ready. 

Also, there is not a shortage of Christian men to fellowship with and marry. If Jesus can feed the multitude with a few fish and a few loaves of bread you mean to tell me that out of ALL the men in the world He can't find one to marry you? And please realize He's been planning your life before the foundation of the world. He's not shocked nor phased by this "shortage." 

The problem is not a Christian man shortage. *THEY JUST DON'T WANT SOME OF US!!!!* Sorry. Talking to single Christian men 9 times out of ten they say they want to ask the sisters out but they feel pressured into entering into relationships when all they wanted was to ask you out to dinner or a play every now and then and get to know you. We think we are being calm and content but content and non pressed people can spot a non content and pressed person, especially a woman, from a mile awayerplexed Your speech betrays you. Learn to be content and let the Lord tweak your plans. He's far better at it than we are

It is a misinterpretation of what Paul is saying that causes folks to make that excuse to marry to keep from fornicating. Even if it was what Paul meant, the Lord told them not to marry or told them to wait. Lust isn't only sexual either.


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## Mis007 (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Ladies, _*DO NOT fellowship (date) unsaved men or unconverted Christian men What does the light and darkness have in common?*_ Be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers. They do not live by the same standards God has set for us. These relationships begin with a deficit. That includes those who convert Monday and ask you out on Thursday. They are not ready.
> 
> Also, there is not a shortage of Christian men to fellowship with and marry. If Jesus can feed the multitude with a few fish and a few loaves of bread you mean to tell me that out of ALL the men in the world He can't find one to marry you? And please realize He's been planning your life before the foundation of the world. He's not shocked nor phased by this "shortage."
> 
> ...


 
_Thank you._


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## Love Always (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Ladies, DO NOT fellowship (date) unsaved men or unconverted Christian men What does the light and darkness have in common? Be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers. They do not live by the same standards God has set for us. These relationships begin with a deficit. That includes those who convert Monday and ask you out on Thursday. They are not ready.
> 
> Also, there is not a shortage of Christian men to fellowship with and marry. If Jesus can feed the multitude with a few fish and a few loaves of bread you mean to tell me that out of ALL the men in the world He can't find one to marry you? And please realize He's been planning your life before the foundation of the world. He's not shocked nor phased by this "shortage."
> 
> ...



Ms. Honey this is my second official post in the Christian Forum.  You're definitely telling the truth about some Christian Men do not want some of the Christian woman.  This might take a turn but I want to know this question if you can answer this or bring some perspective.  OK, here it goes...it appears that it's OK for a single brother in the church to date a non-Christian woman and bring her to church however when it comes to a Christian woman dating a non-Christian man it's unnacceptableerplexed.  The church frowns upon the second scenario I just gave...any insight?


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## Bunny77 (Feb 12, 2009)

Nisha619 said:


> Ms. Honey this is my second official post in the Christian Forum.  You're definitely telling the truth about some Christian Men do not want some of the Christian woman.  This might take a turn but I want to know this question if you can answer this or bring some perspective.  OK, here it goes...it appears that it's OK for a single brother in the church to date a non-Christian woman and bring her to church however when it comes to a Christian woman dating a non-Christian man it's unnacceptableerplexed.  The church frowns upon the second scenario I just gave...any insight?



Not Ms. Honey, but I wonder if it's because of the idea that the man's leadership can bring her to Christ, but in the other scenario, an unsaved man leading the way isn't acceptable.

Although in reality, I've seen more women lead men to Christ than vice-versa... I don't personally think one pairing should be acceptable over another.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 12, 2009)

Nisha619 said:


> Ms. Honey this is my second official post in the Christian Forum. You're definitely telling the truth about some Christian Men do not want some of the Christian woman. This might take a turn but I want to know this question if you can answer this or bring some perspective. OK, here it goes...it appears that it's OK for a single brother in the church to date a non-Christian woman and bring her to church however when it comes to a Christian woman dating a non-Christian man it's unnacceptableerplexed. The church frowns upon the second scenario I just gave...any insight?


 
Double standards? IDK. Maybe they feel the woman should know better than pick a fool to have to submit too.

We HAVE to witness. Bringing an unsaved person to church is what we all need to do. USUALLY when I've seen it the men were witnessing and the women were trying to get someone saved in order to marry them because they were talking/dating. Women usually bring unsaved women to church rather than unsaved men because they know the men's intent is not to know more about Jesus but to try and hook up with them

Now, I HAVE seen brothers bring unsaved women or sisters from other churches to fellowship with. I think a lot of times they want someone who doesn't know what they've been taught and can't hold them accountable for their mess like a sister from their own church would. Pertaining to the unsaved women they bring, alot of times their fornicating with them or hoping to and are trying to impress them with their standing in the church.


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## Love Always (Feb 12, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Double standards? IDK. Maybe they feel the woman should know better than pick a fool to have to submit too.
> 
> We HAVE to witness. Bringing an unsaved person to church is what we all need to do. USUALLY when I've seen it the men were witnessing and the women were trying to get someone saved in order to marry them because they were talking/dating. Women usually bring unsaved women to church rather than unsaved men because they know the men's intent is not to know more about Jesus but to try and hook up with them
> 
> Now, I HAVE seen brothers bring unsaved women or sisters from other churches to fellowship with. I think a lot of times they want someone who doesn't know what they've been taught and can't hold them accountable for their mess like a sister from their own church would. Pertaining to the unsaved women they bring, alot of times their fornicating with them or hoping to and are trying to impress them with their standing in the church.



I do believe it's a double standard.  I agree with you on this.  This has never been my experience but I have seen this far too often and I've wondered about this.  Thank you for answering.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 12, 2009)

Bunny77 said:


> Not Ms. Honey, but I wonder if it's because of the idea that the man's leadership can bring her to Christ, but in the other scenario, an unsaved man leading the way isn't acceptable.
> 
> Although in reality, I've seen more women lead men to Christ than vice-versa... I don't personally think one pairing should be acceptable over another.



In general, I agree w/ Ms.Honey about not dating unsaved/NC men. I do not see dating NC men as being unequally yoked since dating is not marriage and marriage is the yoke not dating/courting. The dating process is the weeding out process. Additionally, the concept that you mentioned in your post is Paul's opinion about married couples where one spouse is a believer and one is not (scriptures @ bottom of post).

I agree with my pastor that there is a best way of dating which is to fellowship in groups with only C people and only unmarried with unmarried and marrieds can only fellowship with marrieds. However, he also knows and teaches that people are weak in different areas and have different sins that easily cause one to fall. To that end, he said that some people are able to date one-on-one without falling and the mature can do so. I choose to date one-on-one and I will date NC men as per my previous since it is not being unequally yoked. I will have to add more later.




> 12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
> 15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 12, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> But I am also torn , he is willing to get married NOW, its me that keeps pushing it back, because I dont want us to get married just to 'relieve my spiritual anguish and anxieties' about this, he does not feel like I do about Marriage, he feels he is LOVING me and married to me already in his heart, well let me rephrase that, I feel that way too, but he doesnt have the mixed messages and anguish like I do
> 
> 
> 
> Ladies I have an even deeper question, is it going to the court house that makes it an honorable union in the Lord's eyes, I mean we almost did that a million times, how does a piece of paper make it all right, in the days of old didnt they just have a 'ceremony' or celebration and take their vows before the LORD, can you take those vows without the piece of paper?


 

You are so torn by this all.  It's so much to bear.  But do you think now would be a good time to make the decision to marry when  you two just had a very serious situation happen?  You should definitely take your time and not allow his influence to "rush" things.  I'd advise you to keep learning right now...of everything in the relationship, good/bad.  Marriage won't solve things but can make them very concentrated.

Court House.  The way I see it, from Judaism to Christianity, marriage has been spiritual as people are married under G-d and with all the community's faithful in witness.  Obviously, G-d honors all marriages whatever the religion..but if you are a christian, you are of a faith community and you should honor that.  Who in the Court House will bless you?


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

1star said:


> In general, I agree w/ Ms.Honey about not dating unsaved/NC men. I do not see dating NC men as being unequally yoked since dating is not marriage and marriage is the yoke not dating/courting. The dating process is the weeding out process. Additionally, the concept that you mentioned in your post is Paul's opinion about married couples where one spouse is a believer and one is not (scriptures @ bottom of post).
> 
> I agree with my pastor that there is a best way of dating which is to fellowship in groups with only C people and only unmarried with unmarried and marrieds can only fellowship with marrieds. However, he also knows and teaches that people are weak in different areas and have different sins that easily cause one to fall. To that end, he said that some people are able to date one-on-one without falling and the mature can do so. I choose to date one-on-one and I will date NC men as per my previous since it is not being unequally yoked. I will have to add more later.


 
What would be the point of dating a man who does not believe in your God? Why do you think unequally yoked only means to be engaged or married? It includes friendships with both male and female also. Unequally yoked means being yoked with someone who does not believe what you believe, how you believe it. That does not say someone of the opposite sex only or someone you would want to marry.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 13, 2009)

well, the dictionary definition of yoke refers to marriage. our church refers to it as marriage. i'm referring to it in marriage. i do not consider friendships or dating yokes. a yoke is bondage to another and i'm not bound to my friends or to a date but based on our beliefs we are bound in marriage and that bond is only broken in death. dating and friendships, not so. just my opinion. and if dating is a yoke then i definately don't agree with your opinon on non-monagamy before marriage because then i'd be yoked with multiple suitors. *shrug*


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

1star said:


> well, the dictionary definition of yoke refers to marriage. our church refers to it as marriage. i'm referring to it in marriage. i do not consider friendships or dating yokes. a yoke is bondage to another and i'm not bound to my friends or to a date but based on our beliefs we are bound in marriage and that bond is only broken in death. dating and friendships, not so. just my opinion. and if dating is a yoke then i definately don't agree with your opinon on non-monagamy before marriage because then i'd be yoked with multiple suitors. *shrug*


 
Our church does not refer to yoked as being marriage only. Fellowship is fellowship and we are yoked to each others in Christian fellowship male or female which is a good thing. We pray to the Lord to bind us (yoke us) together with our brethern, make us one in our hearts.
I'm yoked to my girlfriends because I've chosen to enter into a relationship with them and they've chosen the same. I also have associates that I've chosen NOT to be yoked to I like them but we can't fellowship because they're not Christians. I'm yoked to my children.


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## Raspberry (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> Ok, now that we've discussed the plight of unsaved women, historical marriage and marriages of women of other gods etc. let's talk about the people called after *HIS* name. I know women who have said the Lord has told them NOT to marry. I personally know of a few who say He has told them no. Are they lying on Jesus? Why would they lie on God about a something "promised" to all people?
> 
> And since as it has been said here that we are all Christians, what about the thousands upon thousands of Catholic sisters who the Lord has called to remain unmarried? Some are moms, divorced and widowed but I believe most have never married (a Catholic sister can better answer that) are THEY lying on God?
> What about sisters who never wanted to marry and those who wanted to marry but never have children but the Lord instructed them to?



I would bet that most of those women had deep desires related to devoting themselves fully to the work of the ministry apart from typical marriage and family life - and they realized at some point that their desire was a gift that could be used by God.

I guess the thing that makes many uneasy about is this idea that God will tell someone He does not want them to marry though they have a strong desire to do so.  That sounds like a burden rather than a gift - and it really has no precedent in scripture. 

The words of Jesus below illustrate how individual choice is primary when it comes to marriage in society:
*
Matthew 19:3-12*
_3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?" __* 4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[b]? 6*So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." _


Please note that Jesus doesn't frame a man's desire and action to marry as being dependent on God's explicit will for an individual, but simply because we are created male and female - the tendency towards marriage is a part of our God given DNA.

_ 7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" _
_ 8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." _
* 10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." *
* 11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.*

The eunuchs of those days were castrated or mutilated men who were rendered without sexual desire as a result.  But here Jesus also uses them as metaphors for people who do not marry.  He puts them into 3 categories:  The first being those who were born that way (perhaps both biological and personality related meanings here).  The second being those who were mutilated by men - or outside of their own control.  The third being those who _chose_ to renounce marriage because they felt (and strongly desired) a higher mandate for their lives.  

The phrase "the one who _can_ accept this should accept it" tells us that a person should only forsake marriage if they are personally willing to accept that state of life.  Nowhere in this passage does Jesus say that marriage may not be His will for someone who _desires_ it.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 13, 2009)

actually, they do. i've heard it taught in our church that yoke is bondage (marriage and to a sin/habit but not in friendship), but then i've only been hupokoe-ing in that ministry for 20 years or so, maybe i misheard what EPC was teaching. they also do not teach us that we cannot fellowship with unbelievers. they teach us to guard our hearts and that it is unwise to do so and that we _should_ not but not that we can't. 

anyway, u know i wub u so we can agree to disagree on "yoke". i still stand firm that yoke is a refernece to a type of bondage and not a reference to a type of relationship (outside of marriage which is a type of bondage).

i also still maintain (under your definition) that if one is non-monogamous premarital, then they are in multiple relationships ergo yoked to more than one person. unless i'm missing what you are trying to convey.


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## Raspberry (Feb 13, 2009)

But while we do have the freedom to marry... the verse below illustrates my views on getting married, and really every other decision we face in life:

*1Cor 10:23
 23"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive.*

Outside of those things that are sinful we have freedom to do many things.  But how do we determine what is the best and most constructive decision to make at any given time? As subjects of the Kingdom we have the privilege of having the Holy Spirit on the inside of us who seeks to lead us in all truth and to reveal the will of the Father.  So this is where I absolutely agree with Ms. Honey - if we want the best things God has to offer for us as individuals, we must seek His face above all else.  So I know that I could choose a man to marry but without the leading of the Holy Spirit, he would not be God's _best_ for me.

But one thing that is often glossed over is the part about actually hearing from God.  Many Christians struggle with the idea that they can actually experience the leading of the Spirit in their daily lives.  So when there is perceived resistance from singles about letting God choose their mates, it's not always because of a rebellious attitude, but rather frustration from many who don't quite believe that God is speaking to them regularly in the first place, let alone about their desires for a mate.  The church should be making it a first priority to teach believers how to hear from God, discern His voice, and develop their spirits.  After that, all the questions we have about life, love, work, etc become matters of seeking, waiting, listening, hearing, and submitting.  Learning to hear His voice has been my main desire these past couple years because everything done apart from Him is done in vain and since I have been created for fellowship with God, there is nothing greater than that.  I will start a spin-off thread about this topic..

I have been single/celibate for 3 years but the first two years I had little desire to date and marriage seemed far-fetched.  I needed that time to re-establish a spiritual identity after years of backsliding and disappointing relationships with men that left me feeling numb and cynical about meeting a man I could have deep feelings for. But over the past year I have started to desire marriage as I have become emotionally healthier and have had good teaching that has opened my eyes to what God intended the role of men to be.

One of the most important things I've prayed concerning marriage is that God would change align my desires to His will so I would recognize and want the one he has for me. I realized that my preferences in men had been shaped by worldliness and cultural expectations and that I needed God to renew my mind in this area because I might be blocking my own blessing. I spoke about this at length in another thread,  but I do believe that God has shown me who my mate is and placed him in my path in a fascinating way.  Everything should be cool then right?  Well it turns out now that I sense the Spirit telling me not to "arouse or awaken love until it so desires".. and also that by interacting with this man insecurities and complexes I had suppressed have been making an appearance and God is using this waiting time to deal with them.  If I had not decided to take things slow and seek God through this time I might have pushed myself on this man too quickly and miss out on important correction and healing God wants to impart to strengthen me for marriage and life in general.

Things haven't' been easy in my quest for love (or anything else lol) I'm learning that God uses the experiences in our lives to refine us and strengthen us in preperation for blessing- and just like muscles don't get strengthened without some discomfort and pain, neither do we become more like Jesus without some discomfort and trial.


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## Irresistible (Feb 13, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> You are so torn by this all.  It's so much to bear.  But do you think now would be a good time to make the decision to marry when  you two just had a very serious situation happen?  You should definitely take your time and not allow his influence to "rush" things.  I'd advise you to keep learning right now...of everything in the relationship, good/bad.  Marriage won't solve things but can make them very concentrated.
> 
> Court House.  The way I see it, from Judaism to Christianity, marriage has been spiritual as people are married under G-d and with all the community's faithful in witness.  Obviously, G-d honors all marriages whatever the religion..but if you are a christian, you are of a faith community and you should honor that.  Who in the Court House will bless you?


Yes sweetie, I hear you, thats my point exactly the court house , the paper has nothing to do with it for me, as you stated so truthfully, the court house cant bless me ......hehe I LIKE THAT

God has dealt with both of us soooo much , we have worked through alot, the change in us both from whence we came to where we are is amazing, we were a mess,  alot of fear has been worked out which was making us both do crazy-arse-shyt,   him more, but me too.  I am feeling very encouraged about him, his love, and us right now,  it took me a looong time to feel this way about 'us' again.   but I AM not jumping-no worries


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## Irresistible (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> What would be the point of dating a man who does not believe in your God? Why do you think unequally yoked only means to be engaged or married? It includes friendships with both male and female also. Unequally yoked means being yoked with someone who does not believe what you believe, how you believe it. That does not say someone of the opposite sex only or someone you would want to marry.



Ive met some ministers in the church as my suitors and I thought then it was the only way to go, and man I swear they had some of the most ugliest issues/hearts and ugly self righteousness in them , Ive met unbelievers with more beautiful hearts than that.....ugh

now Ms Honey think of your situation, you married before either of you were saved,  but God saved you both.  He was in it all along, he knew the end from the beginning 

what if one of you got saved first and the Lord expected one of you to stand for the other and pray and later the other got saved.....you know you never know how God is going to work something out

God never said we should just stay in our amen corner and have no love/fellowship with others

I personally have seen greater love at times outside of believers or the church, but oh when it comes from a believer and its real LOVE its so incredibly beautiful,  and its an even more awesome event to see real true love in the heart of an unbeliever, I personally could never shun love , and I think its the heart of the person that matters and they NEED our light, I have a friend that I have brought through so much,  I would never trade that ministry and friendship because she was an unbeliever, or better yet to describe her,  a professed believer, but no action behind it,  a very lost believer, now she is walking closer and closer to him


I am chasing after only giving, and living in LOVE and following after God's heart,  I cant say that will only lead me to fellowship with believers and cut everyone else off, in fact I already know it wont


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## Irresistible (Feb 13, 2009)

oh and to explain the man in my life

he is the son of a very well known preacher, and the cousin of a very well known gospel singer,  he grew up in the church,  saved when he was 14, when they pulled him up the alter during a revival,  Mother very influencial in his life and the church , lots of money,  he got all messed up,  raised in a bunch of RELIGION and watching all around him the hypocrisy, but he loves God,  he doesnt have the same love affair that I have with him, but has watched me and saw God deal with him when he messed with me , hehe,  and is very humbled in that experience at knowing what he cant just get away with, I am watching things transform before my eyes,  so when you said 'dont be with someone that doesnt love Jesus'  he does girl,  and he is a work in progress, but you know what despite our downfalls and issues,  here is the thing HE LOVES ME

Now I have walked with the high and mighty believers in the church that were my suitors and were in ministry , I tell you , yes they loved the Lord,  to what degree I could never know or judge nor would it be my place, but I can tell you this, THEY DID NOT LOVE ME,  they were drawn to the God in me and what I have walked through, and my testimony but when it all came out in the wash-nah there was no TRUE love, and their hearts couldnt be any more trusted than that of a man that is struggling in his belief,  this has been my experience though solely, had I met a believer and had they not turned out to have some of the most ugliest issues in them ever,  I would feel differently I am sure,  but maybe this would help to explain why I am with the man I am with and I have different outlook on all those things now

see you  got married, tried to get a divorce and then got saved, both of you, thats all you know , is him, both unsaved and saved.  There is a big world out there of all kinds of mess even amongst believers,  But God put two people that were a mess and unsaved together , he did it for you.  He might do the same or something similar for others-keep that in mind , you never know what God is doing in the lives of others.  He did something so beautiful for you, he restored what was desolate and broken and healed what was deeply wounded and renewed your marriage for you

no matter how it looks,  you just never know what he is really going to do or what he is up to

because of what I HAVE seen I chose to go solely by the heart and the heart alone , not what comes out of ones mouth about their belief, trust and believe and I kid you not, so serious here, I MET DEVILS THAT WAY.


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## Ramya (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> What would be the point of dating a man who does not believe in your God? Why do you think unequally yoked only means to be engaged or married? It includes friendships with both male and female also. Unequally yoked means being yoked with someone who does not believe what you believe, how you believe it. That does not say someone of the opposite sex only or someone you would want to marry.



ITA. I'd rather start off with a man that is spiritually mature than to wait for him to be the "priest of the house." We CAN do whatever we want to but as Raspberry quoted it may not be beneficial to us. My inner circle is saved and spiritually mature. My loose associates are trying to get there. I love everyone as in agape love or God loving through me, BUT I guard my heart from corrupt fellowships.

ETA: I really wish people would stop thinking that God puts EVERYBODY you meet into your life. We have free will. That man could have just thought you were sexy and wanted to meet you. Yes, He can put people in your life but people abuse that thought. He has a plan but are we really asking HIM what HIS plan is for us? Or are we stuck on what WE want?


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## Irresistible (Feb 13, 2009)

alabama said:


> ITA. I'd rather start off with a man that is spiritually mature than to wait for him to be the "priest of the house." We CAN do whatever we want to but as Raspberry quoted it may not be beneficial to us. My inner circle is saved and spiritually mature. My loose associates are trying to get there. I love everyone as in agape love or God loving through me, BUT I guard my heart from corrupt fellowships.
> 
> ETA: I really wish people would stop thinking that God puts EVERYBODY you meet into your life. We have free will. That man could have just thought you were sexy and wanted to meet you. Yes, He can put people in your life but people abuse that thought. He has a plan but are we really asking HIM what HIS plan is for us? Or are we stuck on what WE want?



I think we all have to ask that question and be sure we listen for the truth at all times on all things


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

1star said:


> actually, they do. i've heard it taught in our church that yoke is bondage (marriage and to a sin/habit but not in friendship), but then i've only been hupokoe-ing in that ministry for 20 years or so, maybe i misheard what EPC was teaching. they also do not teach us that we cannot fellowship with unbelievers. they teach us to guard our hearts and that it is unwise to do so and that we _should_ not but not that we can't.
> 
> anyway, u know i wub u so we can agree to disagree on "yoke". i still stand firm that yoke is a refernece to a type of bondage and not a reference to a type of relationship (outside of marriage which is a type of bondage).
> 
> i also still maintain (under your definition) that if one is non-monogamous premarital, then they are in multiple relationships ergo yoked to more than one person. unless i'm missing what you are trying to convey.


 
You may want to listen to the Sanctified Singles and the Singles Enrichment tape series. Pastor talks explicitly about being yoked to and fellowshipping. You can borrow them free from church if you don't have them.

 Have you ever been a part of the Singles ministry at church? They teach it there also. We are not to fellowship with unsaved and unconverted people. As a matter of fact, pastor was teaching on this very subject Sunday and Tuesday. You can also ask him after service or one of the ministers.

It is fine to be yoked to multiple people even in the fellowshipping with the opposite sex. The problem is being ONE FLESH with more than one person of the opposite sex. The Encarta dictionary does not define yoked as being marriage only.

I know you'll pray on it.  I need to pm you chica. We need to talk about some church stuff. Only one location again?


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Ive met some ministers in the church as my suitors and I thought then it was the only way to go, and man I swear they had some of the most ugliest issues/hearts and ugly self righteousness in them , Ive met unbelievers with more beautiful hearts than that.....ugh
> 
> now Ms Honey think of your situation, you married before either of you were saved, but God saved you both. He was in it all along, he knew the end from the beginning
> 
> ...


 
We weren't converted and the Lord told us not to marry and we did it anyway.  We suffered alot because of our disobedience. Our parents told us to wait too. They were our authority, God spoke to us through them, and we rejected it. Friends and strangers asked us if we were sure, STILL didn't listen. I KNEW IN MY HEART and still didn't listen. We still struggle to this day because of the choice we made. Yes, we have free will and yes we can marry who we want. Their are consequences for our choices, *lifelong* consequences. 

*NO ONE* has ever entered into a jacked up situation, marriage, ungodly friendship or ungodly fellowship with the opposite sex without the Lord warning them. He means what He says. He makes no exceptions.


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## PaperClip (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> *NO ONE has ever entered into a jacked up situation, marriage, ungodly friendship or ungodly fellowship with the opposite sex without the Lord warning them. He means what He says. He makes no exceptions.*


 
It's not really much else to say behind this....

The Lord is speaking...we have to position ourselves to hear Him.... and He is SO MERCIFUL toward us that He keeps at us in His gentle way....


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## hopeful (Feb 13, 2009)

nnmiles said:


> Its interesting to hear you say you want an "active Christian". This is what I wanted when I was dating too. I must say though that a man pursues a woman. He who finds a wife finds a good thing. So It is the man who searches and finds. *In my opinion a lot of us, out of desperation want to do what the man is suppose to do. Seek first the kingdom of God and He will bless you as He desires.* Since it seems that you are a Christian, then you know this already. *Let God take care of you and bring His best into your life. As soon as I stopped trying that is when I met and fell in love with the man God made for me. *This all may sound old fashion but I believe that by taking charge of this matter ourselves we change the path of our lives. *I cannot tell you how many men I let into my heart because I stopped letting God guard me.*
> In His love,
> Nat


 
This quote was in another thread but I just thought it was a beautiful testimony and wanted to share with you ladies.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

The Lord spoke to me this morning. He told me to say that He hears a lot of, "I want a husband and children prayers, I'm praying for my FH future DH prayers, binding and releasing" prayers for men you all have never met, yet He he hears no, "I want to be a *wife* and a *mother*" prayers. He said to say it's a difference in priorities, the difference is ones priorities. He also told me to repost this scripture: 

James 4:1-10
1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
*2 Ye lust and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and can not obtain: ye fight and war, Yet ye have not because ye ASK not, ye ask, and RECEIVE not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.*

Seems like there are times when we don't get what we want because we haven't asked God some questions and sometimes it's something we're doing. Easily solved by a simple prayer to the Father but I digress. 

Why do you want a husband and children? Why aren't you praying to be a wife and a mother? Why aren't you praying to be a servant (they want, they need) but instead praying to consume upon your own lusts (I want, I need)?


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## Irresistible (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> We weren't converted and the Lord told us not to marry and we did it anyway.  We suffered alot because of our disobedience. Our parents told us to wait too. They were our authority, God spoke to us through them, and we rejected it. Friends and strangers asked us if we were sure, STILL didn't listen. I KNEW IN MY HEART and still didn't listen. We still struggle to this day because of the choice we made. Yes, we have free will and yes we can marry who we want. Their are consequences for our choices, *lifelong* consequences.
> 
> *NO ONE* has ever entered into a jacked up situation, marriage, ungodly friendship or ungodly fellowship with the opposite sex without the Lord warning them. He means what He says. He makes no exceptions.


Confused, because you said the LORD told you not to get a divorce , and you both were saved, I dont know, I just saw that as a blessing, 22 years later,  you must feel somewhat the same?


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## Ije4eva (Feb 13, 2009)

Wow, Ms. Honey I never post, but I just had to when I saw this.  The Lord truly speaks.  He gave me this scripture on Monday when I was upset and crying.  God spoke to me last year regarding His will for me as far as marriage, and since then it seems like I've "suffered" so much for the purpose of learning patience and humility wihen it comes to the opposite sex and what I feel I "deserve".  I can *TOTALLY* attest to the fact that God will prepare you for marriage if you ask for His will.  I asked God his will a little over a year ago, when I got the answer I was overjoyed!  He even revealed the man that would adore me for the rest of my life (this is what I'm thinking of course). Little did I know that after the revelation comes the *refining*. Boooooooy, has he shown me myself.  I knew I had some issues, but I didn't think they were that bad!  Now I can see how much I really did need to grow in order to be ready for the walk of marriage.

I don't believe that we do it intentionally, but as women we watch the movies and they make you feel that you'll meet and marry someone who should just accept you "just as I am without one plea"!!!  But you don't know that your selfishness can be the end of your own fairytale.  I'm so glad I'm learning all the things now through the trials I've faced in the past few months, and my older sisters in Christ who are married/divorced continue to confirm to me that indeed, they can see that I'm going through hardcore preparation!

Ms. Honey, that was just a reminder for me, that God is preparing a servant's heart in me.  And if you can simply humble yourself, HE will exalt you in due time.


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## Irresistible (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> The Lord spoke to me this morning. He told me to say that He hears a lot of, "I want a husband and children prayers, I'm praying for my FH future DH prayers, binding and releasing" prayers for men you all have never met, yet He he hears no, "I want to be a *wife* and a *mother*" prayers. He said to say it's a difference in priorities, the difference is ones priorities. He also told me to repost this scripture:
> 
> James 4:1-10
> 1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
> ...



yeah because surely to become a wife and a mother , tis no longer about 'you' at all


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## Irresistible (Feb 13, 2009)

Ije4eva said:


> Wow, Ms. Honey I never post, but I just had to when I saw this.  The Lord truly speaks.  He gave me this scripture on Monday when I was upset and crying.  God spoke to me last year regarding His will for me as far as marriage, and since then it seems like I've "suffered" so much for the purpose of learning patience and humility wihen it comes to the opposite sex and what I feel I "deserve".  I can *TOTALLY* attest to the fact that God will prepare you for marriage if you ask for His will.  I asked God his will a little over a year ago, when I got the answer I was overjoyed!  He even revealed the man that would adore me for the rest of my life (this is what I'm thinking of course). Little did I know that after the revelation comes the *refining*. Boooooooy, has he shown me myself.  I knew I had some issues, but I didn't think they were that bad!  Now I can see how much I really did need to grow in order to be ready for the walk of marriage.
> 
> I don't believe that we do it intentionally, but as women we watch the movies and they make you feel that you'll meet and marry someone who should just accept you "just as I am without one plea"!!!  But you don't know that your selfishness can be the end of your own fairytale.  I'm so glad I'm learning all the things now through the trials I've faced in the past few months, and my older sisters in Christ who are married/divorced continue to confirm to me that indeed, they can see that I'm going through hardcore preparation!
> 
> Ms. Honey, that was just a reminder for me, that God is preparing a servant's heart in me.  And if you can simply humble yourself, HE will exalt you in due time.



This just makes me giggle,  the fire is noooo joke!  He does it his way, the best way,  we ask and dont even have a clue what we are really in for,  its funny

He is so good for making us look at ourselves and learn about ourselves,  funny we only do that while in pain, so you know the pain has to come first.  and we are going 'this is too much' untill we start to see just what he is doing and has done

and it is good!


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> Confused, because you said the LORD told you not to get a divorce , and you both were saved, I dont know, I just saw that as a blessing, 22 years later, you must feel somewhat the same?


 
I went to the altar as a child but didn't repent for my sins until 28 or so and then was converted. Dh was an atheist. He converted about a year before I did while we were going through a bitter divorce. We were separated in the midst of a divorce when we converted. We lived together for *years* without being intimate because we still didn't like each other, well actually we hated each other 
I love my DH but we married out of season, we did not listen to the warnings God gave us and we suffered and our children sufferered.


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## Ije4eva (Feb 13, 2009)

Tell me about it! lol.  I've definately learned how to get on my knees and "pray continually" and depend on God for all things.  When I look back at the past few months, I'm reminded of people like David and Joseph, who God revealed his will and promise for them early on.  Little did they know the testing they would have to endure to be ready.  God is soooo very good.  By the time He takes you through the fire, you understand that His wisdom overshadows any ideas you ever had.


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## Irresistible (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I went to the altar as a child but didn't repent for my sins until 28 or so and then was converted. Dh was an atheist. He converted about a year before I did while we were going through a bitter divorce. We were separated in the midst of a divorce when we converted. We lived together for *years* without being intimate because we still didn't like each other, well actually we hated each other
> I love my DH but we married out of season, we did not listen to the warnings God gave us and we suffered and our children sufferered.



I see , but you are blessed, God worked it all together for you good.  

I think there is always some suffering, in season and out, for many reasons,  us, process, the enemy

I see your situation as blessed none the less and a testimony that God is good and God is able , AND I am blessed by it so much!


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

Irresistible said:


> I see , but you are blessed, God worked it all together for you good.
> 
> I think there is always some suffering, in season and out, for many reasons, us, process, the enemy
> 
> I see your situation as blessed none the less and a testimony that God is good and God is able , AND I am blessed by it so much!


 
Yes, He forgave us for our disobedience in marrying along with our other sins when we got saved. If we disobeyed as Christians who already knew Him it would have been a totally different issue.


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## Ije4eva (Feb 13, 2009)

And just to chime in on this point, I'm honestly coming to learn first hand that many types of suffering can be avoided if we just stay in His will and obey His teachings.  There are too many things we bring on ourselves that simply aren't necessary.


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## PaperClip (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> The Lord spoke to me this morning. He told me to say that He hears a lot of, "I want a husband and children prayers, I'm praying for my FH future DH prayers, binding and releasing" prayers for men you all have never met, yet He he hears no, "I want to be a *wife* and a *mother*" prayers. He said to say it's a difference in priorities, the difference is ones priorities. He also told me to repost this scripture:
> 
> James 4:1-10
> 1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
> ...


 
Ohhhh... Ms.Honey... Ohhh... my GOD!

I don't think I've EVER prayed about being a wife and a mother.... I don't think I've ever asked the Lord to make me a wife and a mother.... My God....

I weep now for real.... It makes Proverbs 18:23 even more real: He that findeth a WIFE findeth a good thing and obtaineth the favor of the Lord....
I was socialized to think that (all) a wife is is someone who can cook and clean (and has to be super skinny with long hair and a little on the light-skinned side)....

Of course a wife (a human being) should be able to cook and clean, but the wifely submission is a HEART THING! 

My prayers are going to change...evolve... not out of some routine, but because it increases the revelation of how serious marriage is.... Clearly I wasn't ready for marriage before now because I did not have that insight.... but that's just like the Lord to bring illumunation RIGHT ON TIME.... The Lord is ON TIME!

I have some SERIOUS REPENTING TO DO.... 

You heard from the Lord, Ms.Honey.... I thank you for being steadfast in the faith concerning this topic. The truth does set us free.... I wish I could express my gratitude to you about this insight you've shared here.... maybe one day I'll have the words....

:blowkiss:


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## Irresistible (Feb 13, 2009)

I too have been very blessed by this thread

probably not in the ways one might think but in ways I cant put into words, in ways exactly as I needed! 

love all you ladies


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## sexyeyes3616 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> I understand where you're coming from but it's not negative, it's true. A single has to be content being alone (not lonely) before the Lord will move them to the next state. If singles can't be content in the state that they are in the Lord can't use them to their fullest potential because they are distracted by getting married which I notice alot with the sisters in Christian forum.
> 
> Singles need to stop seeking to be married and let the Lord send someone their way when *HE* feels they are ready to handle it. Who can *FIND* a virtuous woman. We are to be sought not the other way around. Otherwise there will be fornicating and folks marrying the first thing that says Lord, Lord that comes their way. Then once they are married they *WILL* long for their single state again and seek to regain it.
> 
> ...


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## aribell (Feb 13, 2009)

I too wanted to say that this thread has borne good fruit in my heart and I'm thankful that it has in others as well.  Very edifying.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> You may want to listen to the Sanctified Singles and the Singles Enrichment tape series. Pastor talks explicitly about being yoked to and fellowshipping. You can borrow them free from church if you don't have them.
> _Not only do I have them I was in the ministry that taped them and a participant. A lot of my comments in this thread are based on those teachings.
> _
> Have you ever been a part of the Singles ministry at church? They teach it there also. We are not to fellowship with unsaved and unconverted people. As a matter of fact, pastor was teaching on this very subject Sunday and Tuesday. You can also ask him after service or one of the ministers.
> ...



_
WOW. I have a lot of catching up to do in this thread plus I never finished my last post. I'm not well (something just does not feel right) so I doubt if I will get to it today. Plus I don't think I'm making any sense today so I'll shut up now.  


(FYI to erry one: in our church they eschew the word dating and use fellowship but I use dating/fellowship here so that we can all be on the same page. HTH)_


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

2Cr6:14 Be ye not *unequally yoked together with unbelievers*: for what *fellowship* hath *righteousness with unrighteousness*? and what communion hath *light with darkness*? 

*He says yoked and fellowship are the same. For what fellowship has righteousness(the saved, converted) with unrighteousness( the unsaved, unconverted)What communion has darkness with light. We are light (believers) and we are not to fellowship with darkness(unbelievers)*

 2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 


 2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 


 2Cr 6:17 *Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, *

*He is not talking about married people because he said that if you are married stay married and the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse. Paul is not telling married people to separate from their spouses. He is telling ALL saints to stop fellowshipping, communing and being yoked to ALL unbelievers. He will not receive us if we do.*

 2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


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## discobiscuits (Feb 13, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> I don't think I've EVER prayed about being a wife and a mother.... I don't think I've ever asked the Lord to make me a wife and a mother.... My God....
> _I did that a while back. Maybe that is why certain men are attracted to me (the ones looking for mates) and they react they way they do. I prayed that back when I was considering marrying a specific guy. _
> 
> I was socialized to think that (all) a wife is is someone who can cook and clean (and has to be super skinny with long hair and a little on the light-skinned side)....
> _Please forgive me cause I know you didn't mean it that way, but this had me laughing so hard at the image in my head. You're not the only one who thought that way._



_I'm slowly catching up (doing it in reverse order though)._


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## discobiscuits (Feb 13, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> 2Cr6:14 Be ye not *unequally yoked together with unbelievers*: for what *fellowship* hath *righteousness with unrighteousness*? and what communion hath *light with darkness*?
> 
> *He says yoked and fellowship are the same. For what fellowship has righteousness(the saved, converted) with unrighteousness( the unsaved, unconverted)What communion has darkness with light. We are light (believers) and we are not to fellowship with darkness(unbelievers)*


*
Who's 'he'? Paul? I disagree with that. Just because fellowship and yoke are used in the same passage does not mean that they are synonymous imo. I have always believed that that text is used out of context.  

I guess that means that of the three BFFs I have, the one who is a Jehovah's Witness I need to cut because of that right? 

I see a PM from Ms.Honey coming. 


eta:  *smacks the back of my own hand*
sometimes i just like to be obstinate and disagree. must.stop.that.  
Ms.Honey's comments are forcing me to go back and read and research some stuff. 

In the meantime I would like a response to that BFF comment from y'all please. I used to agonize over being friends with her because of the above quoted passage. After some prayer and supplication, I believe that I have "permission" as it were to fellowship/be yoked with her in spite of the fact that we believe in God differently. (And it helps that I don't have to say "bless you" when she sneezes LOL).*


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## hopeful (Feb 13, 2009)

This thread has been very enlightening.  Married 22 years this summer and I am still learning.  God Bless all of you for sharing your views and thoughts.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

1star said:


> _*Who's 'he'? Paul? I disagree with that. Just because fellowship and yoke are used in the same passage does not mean that they are synonymous imo. I have always believed that that text is used out of context. *_
> 
> _I guess that means that of the three BFFs I have, the one who is a Jehovah's Witness I need to cut because of that right? _
> 
> ...


 

It's in the SAME sentence Of course he's talking about the same thing

The Lord will soften our hearts to someone who may not know Him. He does that with me from time to time but we are not friends. I love them like my family but they aren't my friends. I do not yoke myself with unbelievers.


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## HeChangedMyName (Feb 13, 2009)

This thread still going huh . . .wow.


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## PaperClip (Feb 13, 2009)

1star said:


> _I'm slowly catching up (doing it in reverse order though)._


 
Yes... I'm glad you understood where I was coming from....


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## tgrowe (Feb 13, 2009)

I will say I was one who desired to be married and had to learn to be content in the Lord, ALONE! There were times  I was content and happy to be single and independent. There were times I was content, desiring marriage but waiting patiently. And there were times I called myself being content but I found myself reminding God of how I was serving him and keeping his Word and living holy but he hadn't sent my mate to me. I mean I would be downright sad, going home to a lonely house and  empty bed. 
I ended up buying this book that really helped me in learning to be content and I believe that book would be a great assest to ANY woman. It's called "A Lady in Waiting: Developing Your Love Relationships". An absolute love of mine. It gives Godly wisdom according to God's word about being a lady of wisdom, character, love, virtue, etc, and desiring to exemplify those things above all else.I learned not only to desire holy and godly but to desire God's will for my life. I know if I delight myself in Him he will give me the desires of my heart. But the revelation of that is I must seek him for his will and allow his will to become my desire so that I can house his will in my heart. 
Did I desire marriage? Yes. It is truly nothing wrong with that. But I had to hear from God concerning this. Because desire or no desire, content or not content, only God knows what's best. 
And you know what, all of a sudden but in His timing, I met, dated, and married my husband within a year. It didn't take 2, 3, 4, 5 years for me to see if he was my mate; God revealed it to me through prayer and through my Pastor. God did it right before my eyes and in a way that blew my mind. Thank you Lord. Tomorrow we celebrate our fifth wedding anniversary (Feb. 14). Thank you Lord again, because marriage is work, and that's another thread.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 13, 2009)

hopeful said:


> This thread has been very enlightening. Married 22 years this summer and I am still learning. God Bless all of you for sharing your views and thoughts.


 
O.T. Your hair is gorgeous. 
I'm glueing some wefts in tomorrow. I can't wait til my hair grows as long as yours I want long, flowing hair right now


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## sexyeyes3616 (Feb 14, 2009)

I just want to add

Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the *desires* of your heart. Psalms 37:4 
Tis all.

*_quietly tip toeing out of thread_*


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## hopeful (Feb 15, 2009)

Ms.Honey said:


> O.T. Your hair is gorgeous.
> I'm glueing some wefts in tomorrow. I can't wait til my hair grows as long as yours I want long, flowing hair right now


 
Thanks for the compliment , how did your hair turn out? I bet it's pretty.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 15, 2009)

hopeful said:


> Thanks for the compliment , how did your hair turn out? I bet it's pretty.


 
Can't find my glue OR my weave thread and needleerplexed. I flat ironed so I'll be ready when I do find them.


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## aribell (Feb 16, 2009)

This thread has inspired me to do a study on contentment in general, and I realized that that was probably the one thing that wasn't really discussed here.

I'd be happy to hear people's understanding of what contentment means from a scriptural perspective.  Tryin' to dig a little deeper.


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## PaperClip (Feb 16, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> This thread has inspired me to do a study on contentment in general, and I realized that that was probably the one thing that wasn't really discussed here.
> 
> I'd be happy to hear people's understanding of what contentment means from a scriptural perspective. Tryin' to dig a little deeper.


 
This is a good question to think about....

The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines "content" as "feeling or showing satisfaction with one's possessions, status, or situation"

So in recent months, as the Lord has granted me so much grace and peace after several YEARS of DISCONTENT, I notice that I have tended to vascillate between content and discontent and so I have to catch myself so that I don't wallow or allow myself to snap back into the past. I have to constantly remind myself and keep myself built up in the faith by thinking positively and thinking on the goodness of the Lord.

I don't have to rebuild myself from the ground up, but I have to be careful and watchful that I don't allow myself to sink back into a depressed state. So I make sure to listen to uplifting, inspiring music, daily professions of faith, prayer, laughter, avoid sad, depressing movies, and definitely avoid toxic people.

This bible passage is a helpful explanation:

Philippians 4:11-13 (Amplified)

Not that I am implying that I was in any personal want, for I have learned how to be [a] content (satisfied to the point where I am not disturbed or disquieted) in whatever state I am. 

I know how to be abased (defined as "to lower physically") and live humbly in straitened circumstances, and I know also how to enjoy plenty and live in abundance. I have learned in any and all circumstances the secret of facing every situation, whether well-fed or going hungry, having a sufficiency and enough to spare or going without and being in want.  
I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me [I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who [b]infuses inner strength into me; I am [c]self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency].


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## Mis007 (Feb 16, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> This thread has inspired me to do a study on contentment in general, and I realized that that was probably the one thing that wasn't really discussed here.
> 
> I'd be happy to hear people's understanding of what contentment means from a scriptural perspective. Tryin' to dig a little deeper.


 
_Here goes; mine is to grow in Christ, allowing him to cover my life with his timings and desires. By allowing him to do so is allowing myself to prepare for my lifelong companion. But in the mean time I will love Jesus with all I have (1st John 4:12)_


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 26, 2009)

This thread came to my mind yesterday as I thought about a comparison of the desire of marriage to that of education and professional vocation.  What's the difference?  

People strive for many things in life and good desires are part of the personality G-d placed within the person.  I don't think that anyone would suggest that  a person who desired to become educated was not actually content with their present state of ignorance and was putting this desire before G-d.  It's expected that people become educated.  The brain, conscience and it's development are gifts from G-d.  How much moreso the gift of marriage and children?

Contentment for one's place in life does not mean, IMHO, that one remains stagnant.  One is to grow in every aspect of life throughout all life.  As one desires to be balanced and content, one also strives to grow in various areas and obtain goals.  Contentment should not mean that one has given up the right to dream.  If there are no dreams, there are no devised means to obtain goals.  Contentment with self can only be complete  (IMHO) if one is truly balanced and that includes trust and faith that G-d desires good on His creation.


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## Blossssom (Feb 26, 2009)

If you're alone, you may as well be content with it since it takes two to be in a relationship, Christian or not.  I just hate to see women settle for a man who they know is not what they are looking for from the jump just to NOT be alone.


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## kayte (Feb 26, 2009)

> This thread has inspired me to do a study on contentment in general, and I realized that that was probably the one thing that wasn't really discussed here.



But not for lack of entering as a topic!..contentment  was brought up however,
preempted by most of those who posted in the thread....in favor of shall we say...
other directions and focus


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## kayte (Feb 26, 2009)

Posting esamples as there _were_ attempts made to discuss the idea of being contented 
but in one of my posts... it was taken out of context
moreover the energy of the  thread seemed  to attract debate,perhaps as opposed to discussion,
but here is a few examples of attempts to bring that component of the thread into focus





> excerpted frrom Life coach and author
> V.Moran
> 
> 
> ...







> There's a misconception about what leading a full life means
> and the notion that being autononmous as woman precludes
> or is an obstacle in the desire or capacity for a couplehood is false
> Love of God, a balanced full life love of self which includes
> ...






> It's all so confusing.You're told to keep busy so you won't think about being single and hopefully in one of those activities maybe you'll meet someone.
> 
> Then you're told, don't be so busy that you don't have time to date.
> 
> It just seems singles are never doing the right thing








> Here's what I think you should do. Seek out activities that you enjoy, where it doesn't seem like you're just "keeping busy" to keep busy.For example, I signed up to run a marathon to raise money for cancer research this year. This has been an excellent thing for me because it accomplishes three things.
> 
> 1. I get to exercise in a way that is enjoyable for me, because I really really really like running.
> 2. I am working for a good cause and feel good that my fundraising will help others.
> ...


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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Feb 26, 2009)

kayte said:


> Posting esamples as there _were_ attempts made to discuss the idea of being contented
> but in one of my posts... it was taken out of context
> moreover the energy of the thread seemed to attract debate,perhaps as opposed to discussion,
> but here is a few examples of attempts to bring that component of the thread into focus


 
The full quotes didn't appear..but quoting Moranm  this is what I would consider to be general overall contentment with life in whichever desire one is seeking to fulfill whether education, career change, marriage, children etc.  I agree with her.  It's a good general formula for anyone's life.  

What I found issue with is that, with the sheer mention of desire to marriage, many in this thread jumped to conclusions about the overall contentment of those who desire marriage.  It was almost as though they imagined a depressed and desperate person who's only focus in life was securing a man in matrimony.  I found it short-sighted and jumpy.  When some individual religious preferences explaining how they viewed single women who desire marriage took over their posts in a spirit of self-righteousness, it shifted the focus of the OP's original.  

I personally love my religious freedom minus many of the traditional hang-ups.  It has given me much balance in various aspects of my life.  And as anyone else, it's a work in progress.  But I have found balance:  faith + intellect.  G-d doesn't mind my questions.  I don't think a faithful life works well without the intellectual freedom to question.  Maybe that is cultural.   Yet, sometimes we are forced to accept something through sheer faith without a clear answer just as surely as we oftentimes question the situation in an attempt to work out a solution.


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## aribell (Feb 26, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> What I found issue with is that, with the sheer mention of desire to marriage, many in this thread jumped to conclusions about the overall contentment of those who desire marriage. It was almost as though they imagined a depressed and desperate person who's only focus in life was securing a man in matrimony. I found it short-sighted and jumpy. When some individual religious preferences explaining how they viewed single women who desire marriage took over their posts in a spirit of self-righteousness, it shifted the focus of the OP's original.


 
Hmm...I do think that's how the discussion was interpreted, but I think that was probably more a misunderstanding of the points that were being made.  I think that desires can be tricky things spiritually.  That isn't to say that they're illegitimate or bad necessarily, just that they don't automatically get a free pass or the Lord's stamp of approval.  It seemed that in this discussion those who liked the original prayer were trying to say that all our desires must be submitted to the Lord first, and explicitly, and that sometimes, in spite of what we say we want He calls us down a different road.  But I don't think we have to fear this, since whenever the Lord calls us to something different we usually end up seeing that that was the better path anyway, though we might have wanted something different at first.  Not trying to revive the argument, just trying to summarize.

As far as contentment is concerned, I think I would say that "busyness" is *not *contentment and that _lot _of single women do struggle with genuine contentment whether they lead active lives or not (sometimes _especially_ when they lead active and productive lives...and that's why I started thinking more about the nature of godly contentment, and ended up settling with Paul's "I know how to be abased and I know how to abound,"  meaning that I am not "affected" by being either single or married.  In either state I will seek to love God and others, and insofar as I desire marriage, I desire it as a way to love God and others; but the purpose, whether single or married, doesn't change.


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## Ms.Honey (Feb 27, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> Hmm...I do think that's how the discussion was interpreted, but I think that was probably more a misunderstanding of the points that were being made. I think that desires can be tricky things spiritually. That isn't to say that they're illegitimate or bad necessarily, just that they don't automatically get a free pass or the Lord's stamp of approval. It seemed that in this discussion those who liked the original prayer were trying to say that all our desires must be submitted to the Lord first, and explicitly, and that sometimes, in spite of what we say we want He calls us down a different road. But I don't think we have to fear this, since whenever the Lord calls us to something different we usually end up seeing that that was the better path anyway, though we might have wanted something different at first. Not trying to revive the argument, just trying to summarize.
> 
> As far as contentment is concerned, I think I would say that "busyness" is *not *contentment and that _lot _of single women do struggle with genuine contentment whether they lead active lives or not (sometimes _especially_ when they lead active and productive lives...and that's why I started thinking more about the nature of godly contentment, and ended up settling with Paul's "I know how to be abased and I know how to abound," meaning that I am not "affected" by being either single or married. In either state I will seek to love God and others, and insofar as I desire marriage, I desire it as a way to love God and others; but the purpose, whether single or married, doesn't change.


 
It says a lot that not all the singles in the thread saw some of the posts including mine as self-righteous and jumpy and could understand where we were coming from without themselves being self-righteous and jumpy as the accusers actually were.


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## Ms.Honey (Mar 1, 2009)

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables: 


 Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them. 


 Mar 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? 


* Mar 4:14 The sower soweth the word. *

 Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. 


 Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 


 Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. 


 Mar 4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, 


 Mar 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. 


 Mar 4:20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive [it], and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred. 


 Mar 4:21 And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick? 


 Mar 4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. 


 Mar 4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.


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