# Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with others



## Successfulmiss (May 1, 2013)

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

*The Pentagon has released a statement confirming that soldiers could be prosecuted for promoting their faith: "Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense...Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis...”. *




_So glad God confirmed for me to leave the military last year! He loves His people! He spoke to my husband to leave too April 11th!_


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## Successfulmiss (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

*(From our earlier report: Weinstein is the head of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, and says Christians--including chaplains--sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ in the military are guilty of “treason,” and of committing an act of “spiritual rape” as serious a crime as “sexual assault.” He also asserted that Christians sharing their faith in the military are “enemies of the Constitution.”)*


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



Successfulmiss said:


> http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith
> 
> *The Pentagon has released a statement confirming that soldiers could be prosecuted for promoting their faith: "Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense...Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis...”. *
> 
> ...


First, thank you so much for sharing this important information 

Now, people think the things that are happening to Christians is a joke.....  It's time for Christians to know for sure that they can stand in the face of adversity and persecution and proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord!  This is only going to get worse.


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## Successfulmiss (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

*First take away "DON'T ASK DON'T TELL"...*then apply this? Homogenization of the military like we all spoke about before!


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## Successfulmiss (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Nice & Wavy Your welcome sweetie. This is outrageous and yes it is going to get worse.* Thank you God for your divine protection!*


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



Successfulmiss said:


> *First take away "DON'T ASK DON'T TELL"...*then apply this? Homogenization of the military like we all spoke about before!


Exactly!  I'm glad you are out of the military too!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



Successfulmiss said:


> @Nice & Wavy Your welcome sweetie. This is outrageous and yes it is going to get worse.* Thank you God for your divine protection!*


The world will see how the enemy will turn on them and they will run to the Church...we won't be here, the Lord would have taken us to be with Him...Hallelujah!

This is why Christians proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  We are called to do it to help those who don't know.  There will be people who will see Jesus Christ crack the clouds and still won't want any part of Him.

Jesus said this in Matthew 24:

As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 

4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you dare not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

*The Abomination of Desolation*

 15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

*The Coming of the Son of Man*

 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*The Lesson of the Fig Tree*

 32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, cat the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

*No One Knows That Day and Hour*

 36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,  but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding oat the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
 44 Therefore you also must be tready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
 45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know 51 and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


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## momi (May 1, 2013)

Unbelievable.


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## Angelicus (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I am speechless. Well The Lord said I'd be persecuted... *grabs armour of God and stands in "teseudo" formation*


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## JaneBond007 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I don't know if I'd  trust the journalistic integrity of "breitbart."  They've been guilty of lacking in integrity in the past.  In fact, searching for this story, I find no left-leaning or neutral news sources.  You'd think it would make it into the more neutral Christian Science Monitor, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, BBC etc.  Fox News is very right-wing, as we all know and all those other right-wing blogs and news sources follow suit with Breitbart.  

I will continue to monitor more mainstream sources for this news and take this slanted piece with a grain of salt.  Something this big would make it to all the mainstream news outlets as it infringes upon constitutional rights.  I'd like to read any original statement issued by the Pentagon myself.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Well then, how about this website 'Charisma' who is also reporting it:
http://www.charismanews.com/us/3931...rt-martial-christian-soldiers-who-share-faith


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## momi (May 1, 2013)

JaneBond007 said:


> I don't know if I'd  trust the journalistic integrity of "breitbart."  They've been guilty of lacking in integrity in the past.  In fact, searching for this story, I find no left-leaning or neutral news sources.  You'd think it would make it into the Christian Science Monitor.  Fox News is very right-wing, as we all know.  Breitbart is as well.  I will continue to find more mainstream sources for this news and take this slanted piece with a grain of salt.  Something this big would make it to all the mainstream news outlets as it infringes upon the constitution.



I was unable to find any "mainstream" sources either which is why I was reluctant to post it on my personal site. However - the media is known for biased and selective reporting. It was quite sometime before they even acknowledged the Gosnell case.


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## JaneBond007 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I'm still looking for mainstream sources, even on the Pentagon's site.  Charisma is pentecostal-related news source.  If you look at all those reporting this "story," most of them are definitely right-wing.  So far, I haven't seen anything on catholic news sources either.  This might be a manipulative piece.  The fact that some secular sites like  sodahead has it doesn't mean it's true.  Some of these sites will report any story that allegedly points to negatives in our government.  I'm just going to wait on spreading that until I have further mainstream sources.  

Did anyone mention who released the statement in particular?  It would seem ridiculous to have chaplains of several faiths and prevent them from discussing it ...offering services?


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I will ask some pastor friends about it who can get some inside info.  Will let you all know once I find out.  Thanks for the heads up.


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## JaneBond007 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I checked CBN...not yet...and will be watching CNN now to see if something comes up.  Maybe Aljazeera and BBC because they are very comprehensive.  

About proselytization...sharing the gospel is not proselytization.  The latter goes against one's free choice and human dignity.  If this is true, would they be talking about those who attempt to force conversions?


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## Successfulmiss (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I found info on this just last week while watching Christian television. This information just broke this afternoon. I expect it to be more mainstream soon. Also has anyone checked the FB site Family Resource Center? https://www.facebook.com/familyresearchcouncil

The Lt. General (Ret) published a statement concerning these events. I am a Veteran of 5 years to the Army. Do you think I didn't hear and see what was going on while I was in? I allow God to have a perfect work in me by His grace. While I choose not to be offended, this should not be a doubt-able story. If not now, then we all would have seen this happening in the future. There is not real surprise here.


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## Successfulmiss (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Senior Pentagon officials recently met with anti-Christian activists to formulate a policy that would put military chaplains and other leaders who "promote their personal religious beliefs to their subordinates or to extend preferential treatment for any religion" in danger of court-martial. 

If this policy goes forward, Christians within the military who speak of their faith could now be prosecuted as enemies of the state. Please join us in calling on Secretary of Defense Hagel to protect the religious freedom of our troops - and not to proceed with the purge of religion within the ranks:

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=PT13D02&f=AL13D07

_This also includes Priests, Ministers and Rabbis._ They make up the majority of military Chaplains. I am sharing this in love, not to upset anyone. The Bible say we need to watch and pray and I am watching too. Matt 26:41


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## JaneBond007 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



Successfulmiss said:


> I found info on this just last week while watching Christian television. This information just broke this afternoon. I expect it to be more mainstream soon. Also has anyone checked the FB site Family Resource Center? https://www.facebook.com/familyresearchcouncil
> 
> The Lt. General (Ret) published a statement concerning these events. I am a Veteran of 5 years to the Army. Do you think I didn't hear and see what was going on while I was in? I allow God to have a perfect work in me by His grace. While I choose not to be offended, this should not be a doubt-able story. If not now, then we all would have seen this happening in the future. There is not real surprise here.




But wait, sis, no offense is needed to be taken.  It's about verifying the story...any news story.  Although I am not in the services, I am surrounded by family that is and am just as interested in knowing the source of the info.  

Regarding a walk with Christ, we should all remain humble and your spirituality is not in question for me.  I'm still attempting to verify this thing.  It would be a very big story for the catholic community and I'm just as ready to pass it on when I get that verification.  My only doubt is the source of the sites passing it on.  They have been horrible during the past 2 elections and have generated manipulative stories replete with 1/2 truths to push their rightist and racist agenda.  That is my great concern.  I believe we are all watchful but even with that, veracity should be no. 1.  Please don't take offense that Breitbart.com was questioned.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Ok, I think I may have something...read this:



> *The Military Religious Freedom Foundation is calling on the Air Force  to enforce a regulation that they believe calls for the court martial  of any service member caught proselytizing.*
> 
> *President Mikey Weinstein and others from his organization met  privately with Pentagon officials on April 23.* He said U.S. troops who  proselytize are guilty of sedition and treason and should be punished –  by the hundreds if necessary – to stave off what he called a “tidal wave  of fundamentalists.”
> 
> “Someone needs to be punished for this,” Weinstein told Fox News.  “Until the Air Force or Army or Navy or Marine Corps punishes a member  of the military for unconstitutional religious proselytizing and  oppression, we will never have the ability to stop this horrible,  horrendous, dehumanizing behavior.”


Here is The Military Religious Freedom Foundation website that speaks about the Pentagon court martials:
http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2013/WAPost_TARA_4-26-13.html

And here is where they spoke about court martial:


> After demands from Weinstein, the *Air Forced published, but has yet  to distribute, a 27- page document, which includes a cover sheet that  states: "COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY."  "Leaders at all levels, "the document says, "must avoid  the actual or apparent use of their position to promote their personal  religious beliefs to their subordinates or to extend preferential  treatment for any religion." It even suggested that noncompliance could  result in court-martial.
> *
> According to Weinstein, this has not been backed up.
> 
> ...


So, the DOD has met with these people and there is something in writing, but hasn't been distributed yet...so naturally, it won't be in mainstream news.

Interesting and will be watching for what transpires for sure.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



Successfulmiss said:


> I found info on this just last week while watching Christian television. This information just broke this afternoon. I expect it to be more mainstream soon. Also has anyone checked the FB site Family Resource Center? https://www.facebook.com/familyresearchcouncil
> 
> The Lt. General (Ret) published a statement concerning these events. I am a Veteran of 5 years to the Army. Do you think I didn't hear and see what was going on while I was in? I allow God to have a perfect work in me by His grace. While I choose not to be offended, this should not be a doubt-able story. If not now, then we all would have seen this happening in the future. There is not real surprise here.


It is important to find other sources, as I did in my posts above, so I do appreciate JaneBond007 seeking out other information and sharing it.  We will watch and pray


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## JaneBond007 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I try to remain balanced and I will have to come back later to finish reading this thread...but to me, the key word is "proselytizing."   It's not right to do that to anybody.  But ....I need more of his proofs and complaints on HOW....because introducing "treason" to anybody who "SHARED" the faith.  Hmmm...that could be for anybody, muslims, Jews, christians, Ba'hai's?  Just about anybody.  This dood has a lot of influence...smh.  

-----------------

You know what's interesting, he's labeled the "antagonizer of christianity" or so.  I've done a little reading on his organization:

"St. Martins Press in New York released Mikey’s book, “With God On Our Side: One Man’s War Against an Evangelical Coup in America’s Military” in October 2006. The paperback version was released in February 2008 with the Foreword being written by Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV. *The book is an expose on the systemic problem of religious intolerance throughout the United States armed forces.* At this time, Mikey also made his international film debut in the Hollywood adaptation of James Carroll’s New York Times best selling book detailing the 2,000 year bloody history between the Church and the Jews, entitled “Constantine’s Sword”, and directed by Oscar nominee Oren Jacoby."

It would be interesting to note what the intolerances would be that he's indicating in his book because he could have some valid complaints.  I've never read it.  They used the term "proselytize" and that's coercion.  What is the extent of religious intolerance of other faiths?  

Thing is, you have chaplains in the armed services.  They're there.  Proselytizing differs from mention or interest another has in your religion.  As Weinstein is Jewish (who do not proselytize), I'm interested to know how other faiths are marginalized.  Are people not promoted?  Are prayers opened up in Jesus' name and etc.?  I'd need more conclusive background on the troubles he's fighting against to be able to form an educated opinion on this.  But one thing seems absolutely stupid..."treason?"  That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.  And how far would it go, not to offer spiritual direction to the adherents of the chaplain's faith somehow?


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## JaneBond007 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Successfulmiss


Could you or anybody else in the military give us a rundown for how religion is used, promoted as done today?  Also, either he's just a big dog barking or somebody is about to take off his leash and accommodate him.  I'm for equality but this would definitely backfire to all faiths.  They would go after anybody within their community who sought spiritual direction...I'm sure of it.   Don't force...but don't prohibit...they are human soldiers, not toy soldiers.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

What the world calls "proselytizing" is what Jesus told His disciples to do:



> And he said to them, “*Go into all the world and* *proclaim the gospel to the whole creation*. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” 19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.


When we go out into the world, that includes everywhere we go, we are to proclaim/preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  When people say that Christians are cramming the Word down peoples throat, what they are saying is that they don't want to hear the Word of God, which is the Truth and when people share the Gospel, its Truth in Action.

This man wants to have his way....AT ALL COSTS!  He is an enemy of Christ, but he has to make it look as though its not just 'Christians' he is after so he's throwing in the Jews, etc.  Trust...these people will not stop with just 'Treason' or 'Court Martial'...they will go all the way until all Christians be stopped, not just in the armed forces.  

Whoever wants to hear the Gospel, will listen and be interested and whoever does not want to hear, can walk away.  NO ONE FORCES THE GOSPEL ON ANYONE, unless its some kind of cult practice, which we all know are NOT Christian.

I evangelize a lot and I get all kinds of hateful words thrown at me, and this is from people I'm not even talking to.  It's not easy doing what the Lord calls for you to do, but obedience is better than sacrifice.

When we become Born Again, we deny ourselves, pick up the cross, and follow Jesus.  My life is no longer my own, and so I have to expect the good to come from witnessing the Gospel and the bad that comes from those who despise it.  I don't take it personal because its not about me, even though satan wants it to be.

We will see what's going to happen with this, but...just knowing that the DOD has been speaking to a organization like this reveals much...

Being a Christian in these times are dangerous, whether you are preaching about Jesus Christ or not...people who know you are a Christian will come after you with hatred in their eyes....I experience it all the time.

But, Jesus said that if they persecuted Him, they will persecute us too....BUT, WE HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD!

I look forward to being with Jesus on that day and so persecution may come now for a short time, but JOY comes in the morning!!!


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## Successfulmiss (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Thank you all for your input*,* *every single one of you *is important to me and I know we all pray for one another here; so I will be praying about this and come back. Im glad this thread wasn't ignored!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



Successfulmiss said:


> Thank you all for your input*,* *every single one of you *is important to me and I know we all pray for one another here; so I will be praying about this and come back. Im glad this thread wasn't ignored!


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## JaneBond007 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I'm attempting to approach this from a quasi legal perspective.  I wish lawyers would chime in.  

What I'm saying is spreading the gospel isn't FORCING the gospel.  Sharing is not proselytizing and this is the key word he's used.  I'd like his examples of when and how people who are not christians are being proselytized because he _could_ have a valid point in that.  Everyone's faith is to be respected.  But proselytization differs from sharing the gospel.  It involves bad intent, rudeness, coarseness, assumptions, force, even violence and destroys another's free will and human dignity.  JPII spoke openly about this in an encyclical, I believe.  @Galadriel can correct me if that is not accurate it was in an encyclical.

So, in essence, it's his wording that is of value.  What those chaplains and other servicemen/women do just speaking on their faith (again, regarding intent and keeping in mind the free will of another with respect) or giving spiritual direction doesn't equate with the violence of proselytization.  It's funny, he probably wants to outlaw "G-d," "Jesus," "HaShem," and "Allah" etc. from the services entirely.  How the mention of G-d is attempting to overthrow the government or insurrection against established order is weird, unless one outlawed the speaking of the name of G-d as well as declaring Him an enemy of the government.  Makes no sense.  But he's trying hard and it was born out of people trying to force him to be a christian, which was wrong in the first place.  Seriously overkill, though.





As far as proselytizing, that's one thing.  But how are they lumping living your faith (which it will definitely come to) and giving spiritual direction to another within your faith, even speaking gently about your faith equated to proselytization and what has happened to infringe upon the rights of another?  And then to say it's sedition and treason?  If I were that rabbi, I'd alienate myself wholly from him.


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## momi (May 1, 2013)

Successfulmiss said:


> Thank you all for your input, every single one of you is important to me and I know we all pray for one another here; so I will be praying about this and come back. Im glad this thread wasn't ignored!



To be honest I do not doubt this story at all. I just know that when I post it public ally I will need to make sure I can back it up... People do not want to believe Christian persecution will take place so resistance will be strong. It brings to mind the testimony of an army man (high ranking) that said  special forces were being trained to detain and kill American citizens. 

 I will admit that things seem to be ramping up pretty fast. I will continue to keep us all in prayer - especially those who are currently serving in our armed forces.   Maranatha!


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## momi (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Here is an article from the Washington Post. I believe this is the same one Sis. Wavy was referring to.  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...befcea-ade2-11e2-8bf6-e70cb6ae066e_story.html


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## MrsHaseeb (May 1, 2013)

Come quickly Lord Jesus!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



JaneBond007 said:


> I'm attempting to approach this from a quasi legal perspective.  I wish lawyers would chime in.
> 
> What I'm saying is spreading the gospel isn't FORCING the gospel.  Sharing is not proselytizing and this is the key word he's used.  I'd like his examples of when and how people who are not christians are being proselytized because he _could_ have a valid point in that.  Everyone's faith is to be respected.  But proselytization differs from sharing the gospel.  It involves bad intent, rudeness, coarseness, assumptions, force, even violence and destroys another's free will and human dignity.  JPII spoke openly about this in an encyclical, I believe.  @Galadriel can correct me if that is not accurate it was in an encyclical.
> 
> ...


And what I bolded is what I meant when I said that they will consider this proselytizing, even though there are very few who behave in a bad way who proclaim to be Christians, most Christians do not behave this way...but, they will clump "Christians" in the same boat.  They want nothing more than to stop the Gospel.  This is satan's plan and if he can get the government to stop it completely, he will....and this is only the beginning.

As Christians, we can't get caught up in the rhetoric of the world...we must be steadfast and press toward the mark of the high-calling in Christ Jesus.

For Hagel to have this on the top of his list when there are many other things going on with security in this Country, says something...and its loud and clear:

STOP THE CHRISTIANS AT ALL COST!


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



momi said:


> Here is an article from the Washington Post. I believe this is the same one Sis. Wavy was referring to.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...befcea-ade2-11e2-8bf6-e70cb6ae066e_story.html


Yes, sis...nowwwww we have the main stream media reporting it.

My Lord...and my God!


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## JaneBond007 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



momi said:


> Here is an article from the Washington Post. I believe this is the same one Sis. Wavy was referring to.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...befcea-ade2-11e2-8bf6-e70cb6ae066e_story.html





This is the first time I'm reading this particular article and I knew there was a more balanced representation of that meeting.  The examples indicated were actual proselytization and were violent, ugly and vile.  Still, we all need to be vigilant of our amendment rights.  But Weinstein was right, in my opinion, for the examples given.  That's not to say he won't push for something severe and oppressive.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

People are afraid of the Name of Jesus....plain and simple.  Every time you say the name of Jesus, people get knocked off their feet because they are trying to kick against the pricks:



> And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.  Acts 9:5



You say the name GOD, and they don't have a problem with it....but say the name of JESUS, and eyes bulge, mouths foam, bodies shake violently and people lose their minds.  If you don't believe me, try it and see

At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Him as Lord!!!


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## JaneBond007 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

""The proselytizing they referred to is primarily from “dominionist” or fundamentalist evangelical Christians. Weinstein’s organization has 33,000 clients, and 96 percent are Christian. These clients come to him to complain about having their religious freedom undermined in some way.""

""A chaplain in Afghanistan recently was the target of complaint for sermonizing to troops, including Afghan soldiers, that they had approximately 2,000 days to live and needed to “get right with Jesus.”"

""“Leaders at all levels,” the document says, “must avoid the actual or apparent use of their position to promote their personal religious beliefs to their subordinates or to extend preferential treatment for any religion.” It even suggested that noncompliance could result in court-martial.""

""Weinstein himself once received a letter from the wife of an Air Force sniper who told him her Bible group prayed every day for him to end up in hell on fire and screaming with his friends, “the homos, the muslems [sic] the communists and the leftists. And the gun lovers and the abortionists.” "

-------------------------------------------
Question:   Does anyone agree that this is permissible in christianity?  Is his "benign" sharing the gospel?


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## Nice & Wavy (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



JaneBond007 said:


> ""The proselytizing they referred to is primarily from “dominionist” or fundamentalist evangelical Christians. Weinstein’s organization has 33,000 clients, and 96 percent are Christian. These clients come to him to complain about having their religious freedom undermined in some way.""
> 
> ""A chaplain in Afghanistan recently was the target of complaint for sermonizing to troops, including Afghan soldiers, that they had approximately 2,000 days to live and needed to “get right with Jesus.”"
> 
> ...


Anything that does not line up with God and His Word as a Christ Follower is not permissible to God, let alone Christianity.  

I can't trust or believe to much with this man's word regarding these stories because I believe he is coming up with a case against Christians, period.  He is using some things that people are doing and blanketing Christianity as a whole.  People who do wickedness under the banner of Christianity, do not come from God.   The Bible says you will know them by their fruits, and this:

*"This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." * I John 1:5-7


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## Nice & Wavy (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

This is a comment left by a woman on that WP website, who is in the service.  I left her name out for privacy, but its on the website:



> 5/1/2013 7:02 PM EDT
> As  a Veteran, as a Woman, as a MilSpouse, and as a Christian... Oh, Lord,  spare me the pitchforks and name calling: I have never in my military  experience seen or heard of anyone FORCED to listen to a prayer,  Scripture reading, or a testimony.  On the contrary, I have seen men and  women of faith cower.  I was told in Basic training that I could not  pray with other Christians- I might offend someone.  I was told that if  my Bible reading offended someone, then I would have to lock it up, and  only use it at Chapel- could not even read it during MY free time.   Throughout my time with the military, since 1999, I walked on egg shells  concerning my fervor for my faith.  I have no desire to "save the  world," or shove my faith down anyone's throat.  However, I will NOT  cower anymore when someone asks me what I believe or why.  If THAT is  proselytizing, as this article and as Mr. Weinstein would have us  believe, then I guess I am guilty of that.  However, I would have you  all know.... I did not find Christian fellowship until I left the  military, because I was too afraid of the "consequences" of sharing my  faith.  Now, I try to reach out to AD Christian women to offer them a  chance to speak of their faith- guess what- THEY DON"T!!!  Why is that?   Oh, because Christians are insistent on pushing their faith down  someone's throat.  Right...  But according to Weinstein the Military is  full of us forcing our beliefs on others...  I challenge him/anyone to  show me an example of "spiritual rape" where the person who complained  did not have the opportunity to walk away.   Its not there.....  As for  the author of this article--- wow, way to get all the facts.


Praying for ALL the men and women who are Christ Followers in the armed forces who are facing what this woman and those that I know who are active in the military, face daily because of their faith.


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## JaneBond007 (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I don't want to view this from a religious point of view, though...merely legal.  If there are people who have complained about being proselytized, they should be protected.  However, if there are people of whichever faith who are bullied into not being able to privately practice their faith (put away your bible ex.), those should also be protected.  I just hate it that this thing has been spun by the right...then the left...where are the truth bones of this darned story?  Know what I mean?  Just provide facts...no spin and no rightist agenda counterpointed by leftist defense.  Garsh!  

I don't agree with forcing anybody...I'm Native...I know full-well what proselytizing means and it ain't pretty.  I myself have been proselytized by "well-meaning" people badgering me in my face, "you're going to hell for being XYZ (catholic one of them)."  SMH.  It's not right.  That's not sharing the gospel.  If I'm on my way somewhere and somebody accosts me with, "here take this chick tract and read it ....you need salvation" and I don't accept it and they push anyway....that's an assault against my human dignity and rights.  Sharing the gospel is not forcing religion on anyone.  People need to understand exactly what it means.  There is a big difference.

With that said, yes, people ought be vigilant and contact their senators, representatives, governors, president...about this issue to forever secure one's private right to religion...and to public declare it...but not force it down a throat.  Obviously, it's the latter that need interpretation.  But we have first amendment rights and the chaplaincy has already been established in our armed services.  We need to make sure they are NEVER removed.


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## Shimmie (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Thank you for sharing this Successfulmiss

Nice & Wavy thank you for sharing the valid confirmations from valid sources.

This all goes back to the gay marriage enforcement. More and more Christians are speaking up and taking a stand against homosexuality.    It's obvious that gay supporters fear the sovereign power of God's Word; realizing that they cannot change it to validate homosexuality. 

I couldn't help but question, what does Obama have to say about this?  He's already in the pool with them.  Is he, the 'commander in chief' of the military going to ignore this?   I refuse to believe that any President, Black or White, has no power to rebuke this.  

The joy I have is this.  No one can take Jesus away from me; He is embedded within my heart.   My relationship with Jesus is real.    The Pentagon has no power to take Jesus from me, nor me from Jesus Christ.

I don't even have to 'blink', Jesus is always here with me, abiding in me, and me abiding in Him...wholeheartedly. 

I simply do not 'fear' this.  I have no fear of what the military is trying to impose upon Christians.   The pentagon is a vapor and without the grace of God and the presence of those who love him, these fools in the pent are only seconds away from their own self appointed destruction.   

I've experienced too many victories in my life as a Christian to fear those who oppose.   

I have to go back to this scripture that the Lord gave me the other day and I shared it in the Supreme Court thread in our forum.

This is soooooooo on time:  John 19:10  and 

Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?"

John 10:18

*No one takes it from me*, *but I lay it down of my own accord*. *I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."*

:Rose:  

*The Pentagon+= Pontius Pilate*

"Don't you know that I have the power to strip you of your honours, '''court martial" you?

*Military Christian = Jesus*

*No one takes it from me,* unless I lay it down of my own accord; and I have the power and the authority to take it up again, as commanded by my Father (in Heaven).

:Rose:

There it is, God's Word in full authority.


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## 3jsmom (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I am sadden by this news, I will continue to pray for our military

I will say that I am not surprised b/c they still hiding rapes of our military members


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## Shimmie (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



3jsmom said:


> I am sadden by this news, I will continue to pray for our military
> 
> I will say that I am not surprised b/c they still hiding rapes of our military members



3jsmom... So true.  The military has many dark 'secrets' which they try to keep hidden to protect the guilty and disarm the innocent.  

I also read in one of the articles regarding the pentagon, that 'they' regard sharing about Jesus as rape just as violating as sexual rape.  

Some of these pentagon folks have pellets rattling in their brains.


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## Shimmie (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

I want to know what their 'current' policy is on 'forcing' (raping) people to accept homosexuality and gay marriage.   A court martial for pushing this lifestyle should be in place for that as well.


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## momi (May 2, 2013)

Even if these cases are authentic - I can't imagine our brave soldiers being intimidated by these instances. They are trained for all types of warfare foreign and domestic but are threatened by someone damning them to hell? It is the name of Jesus that is the offense. 



1 Peter 2:7-8 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.


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## Successfulmiss (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

*Just for the sake of this thread we are speaking of biblical/belief matters not anything legal. *This is the Christian forum where the forum rules state NOTHING here is up for debate. Thank you to all those praying and in faith for those still in the military facing this sort of opposition. It is actually dishonoring to those of us who have faced this opposition and experienced it in real life. Like me. I apologize to any ladies here if they have felt they have been dishonored in anyway.God bless you all in Jesus Name!

_*PER Beverly:*The purpose of this particular forum is to allow believers of Jesus Christ to fellowship together. Its not political, controversial, or a means for debating. Any post that do not pertain to spiritual advancement, encouragement, etc. will be removed. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. _


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## Galadriel (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Thanks for sharing, Successfulmiss

It's disheartening to hear that a Christian (once again) is being told to leave his faith at home and not bring it out anywhere else.


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## JaneBond007 (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



Successfulmiss said:


> *Just for the sake of this thread we are speaking of biblical/belief matters not anything legal. *This is the Christian forum where the forum rules state NOTHING here is up for debate. Thank you to all those praying and in faith for those still in the military facing this sort of opposition. It is actually dishonoring to those of us who have faced this opposition and experienced it in real life. Like me. I apologize to any ladies here if they have felt they have been dishonored in anyway.God bless you all in Jesus Name!
> 
> _*PER Beverly:*The purpose of this particular forum is to allow believers of Jesus Christ to fellowship together. Its not political, controversial, or a means for debating. Any post that do not pertain to spiritual advancement, encouragement, etc. will be removed. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. _



When you opened up this topic, it was via a news source that was not quite credible.  This is a national news event, not just a christian news story.  And even FOR christians, it has great and long-ranging repercussions for everyone's first amendment rights, no matter their faith.  I chose to also look at this situation via legal means because it is a situation developing in the  DOD.  I am not discounting Jesus nor prayer in the least.  But to have the information correctly is very important.  

Christians should not ever hide their heads in the sands...and they should not ignore the legal aspects of laws and policies that are going to affect them.   But I personally choose not to be alarmist, reactionary and doomsday fearful about this situation because I think it can be choked out of existence simply by our constitutional rights.  If christians wish to get active to prevent such a change, they should contact their elected officials.  The starting point in this thread was verifying the story.  And I find it strange that the complete article presented with evidence of negative and oppressive proselytization practices against non-christians is largely being overlooked in favor of only seeing the discriminatory practices against christians...though, the climate of the armed services is steeped in a christian culture as the majority.   Christ requires justice, not just for christians.  I see the problem developing, but for all people.  


Matthew 10: 16

"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.


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## Shimmie (May 3, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



JaneBond007 said:


> Matthew 10: 16
> 
> "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.



This is on point.      Christians in the Military are surrounded by wolves on both sides...However, they are all more than Conquerors through Jesus Christ our Lord.


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## Napata (May 3, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Those groups are disseminating false and misleading information. Christians are not being singled out. This applies to anyone, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, etc. who tries to impose their beliefs on others. The military has long prohibited proselytization. 
*"Service members can share their faith (evangelize), but must not  force unwanted, intrusive attempts to convert others of any faith or no  faith to one's beliefs (proselytization)*," said Navy Lt. Cmdr. Nate  Christensen, a Pentagon spokesman, in an email.


"If a service member harasses another member on the basis of race,  color, sex, religion, national origin, age, or disability, then the  commander takes action based on the gravity of the occurrence. Likewise,  when religious harassment complaints are reported, commanders take  action based on the gravity of the occurrence on a case-by-case basis."


Christensen said *there are no plans to single out evangelical Christians for punishment, *despite claims of activists.


*"The U.S. Department of Defense has never and will never single out a  particular religious group for persecution or prosecution. The  Department makes reasonable accommodations for all religions and  celebrates the religious diversity of our service members,"* he said.​Fox Falsely Claims Obama Administration Leading "Christian Cleansing" Of Military 
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/05/03/fox-falsely-claims-obama-administration-leading/193886


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## JaneBond007 (May 3, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Napata

When I first heard of the story, something didn't set well with me and that's when I went searching.  There is persecution of many for their faith in G-d, whichever religion, but it makes us look like fools when we are blown from side to side with each and every right-wing misinformation put out there.  This was on purpose and I believe it was to cast an ugly light on the Obama admin.  They are trying from every angle to rile up the masses against him (fanatics and uber right).  

I think that, as christians, we should search for all the facts and then get riled up when those absolutely point out persecutions.  Still, no one else here has even looked at the Weinstein examples to even point out he was justified.  

Faux News...I just knew after "Breitbart" that when Fox was mentioned, it wasn't going to appear anywhere else mainstream.  SMH.  Those will stoop at nothing to hate on a black man.  Sigh.


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## Nice & Wavy (May 3, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*



JaneBond007 said:


> @Napata
> 
> When I first heard of the story, something didn't set well with me and that's when I went searching.  There is persecution of many for their faith in G-d, whichever religion, but it makes us look like fools when we are blown from side to side with each and every right-wing misinformation put out there.  This was on purpose and I believe it was to cast an ugly light on the Obama admin.  They are trying from every angle to rile up the masses against him (fanatics and uber right).
> 
> ...


@ the bolded. This is not a true and fair statement.  I did read what he said and I looked to find facts and even stated such.  I found that his views on this subject was against Christians in general, even though he stated that it was only those who"proselytize."  But, when you read into more about this man, you find that his vitriol against Christians is forceful and shaded.

YOU can by all means agree with this man if you like, but don't say that some of us may look like fools because of the information we may find out, even if its coming from Fox News. I appreciate the fact that the OP even put this thread here and I don't appreciate some of the statements you are making in this thread because some may not agree with you and your statements.  To say that "this was on purpose" (even if it came from Briebart) is unwarranted and to state that there wasn't any of this information on any mainstream news is not accurate...last I heard, Washington Post is a mainstream news media.

I'm not going to continue to even post in this thread....I can see where this is going and my spirit is to joyful to continue....so, on that note...continue on!


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## equestrian (May 4, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Pretty sure they mean _every_ religion, not just christianity...


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## dicapr (May 4, 2013)

Fox News strikes again!  They report first, retract latter, but the damage has already been done. 

I think we as Christians need to be truthful. While most of us go about our daily lives sharing our faith in a respectful manner there are bad apples that are highly offensive in the way they share their faith. No one in authority should have the right to force their faith on another person. If this story was about protecting Christians from atheist forcefully spreading their belief the responses in this thread would be different. Being a Christian does not give us the mandate to force our belief systems on another individual. Even Christ told his the 12 that if any city did not want to receive the truth to shake the dust off their feet and move on. However, some people still don't understand that no one should be battered into hearing or accepting the gospel. Especially someone in authority.


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## JaneBond007 (May 4, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

@Nice & Wavy


I mean touching upon that point of view as valid because it is within the context of this entire situation...with the truth as latter revealed.  Those reported incidences?  Maybe I missed others touching upon those.  My bad.  And truthfully, we were set up to look silly and reactionary.  They are highly manipulative.  It was understandable and it is true that society is leaning towards doing something like this.  I know.  But we're not there yet.  Even more reason for us to present the facts and get active now.  BTW, I'm  not calling you a fool nor anyone else...it's collective "fooled" into believing their spin.  My heart jumped as well initially.

Some of us could smell the spin early on, others were alarmist and within reason...but without the facts, we can't make a fair assessment of things.  Please don't take it that we are somehow against you.  That's not it at all.  If christians are going to be fair, then be fair for all, not just for christians....is the point of many.  I personally can't trust anything that comes from the mouth of Faux News.

dicapr

Weinstein is reactionary against christians for the very reasons you state.  Thing is, proselytization is the ugly word here.  And thank G-d that all this was clarified by the spokesperson at the DOD in that letter.  Sharing the gospel isn't proselytizing and there are 2 camps in the CF on what it means.  I just hope that we remain balanced in all aspects of life, even within our faith to see the dignity of every human.  You know, in the OT, somebody said something so brilliant...."Jesus was a gentleman."  He sure was and is today.  He never forces, never takes away free will.  He can lead, guide, influence without destroy man's freedom.


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## Successfulmiss (May 4, 2013)

*Re: Pentagon WILL began court martialing soldiers sharing the Christian faith with ot*

Im no longer posting here either. *Sticking to forum rules. God bless you all and Shalom!*


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