# Courting before Marriage: Premarital Sex isn't the only Sin



## Poohbear (Aug 7, 2009)

*Premarital Sex isn't the only Sin - Courting before Marriage*

We all know as Christians that we are to abstain from sex before marriage.  (However, we also must keep in mind that God is a forgiving God, and if we feel remorse for having sex outside of marriage, we must confess our sin and repent). 

After reading all the posts in the locked Sex and the Christian Single thread, I would like to take the topic a step further and ask about preparation for marriage.  Premarital sex isn't the only sin in the Bible that single men and women can commit. If we really want to get technical with the "Shoulds" and "Should nots", should we refrain from other activities as well that take our attention away from God (watching movies, going places, shopping, playing games, talking on the phone instead of praying to God, etc.)?  All these dating activities that don't involve sex can also be considered lust of the eye or lust of the world which are sins against God and do not give God glory. 

There were a couple of posts in that thread that I agreed with that made me want to start this thread. Here they are:



			
				yodie said:
			
		

> I started thinking...
> 
> All of the choices listed in the poll are in reference to dating or trying someone out. Dating, although I have done it, DOESN'T exist as it relates to the bible. There's no such!! Dating, aka, testing out the possibility of a future mate, gives place to many of the choices listed in the poll. This leads to sin and stepping out of God's will for marriage/sex. Dating also teaches us that "try 'em and leave 'em" mentality. I know it's part of our culture, but that's definitely not the way God designed it, which is why people were married (in God's eyes) when they became physical with one another.





			
				honeyflaava said:
			
		

> Excellent post Yodie! I agree with everything that you stated. Dating is not of God, but rather of this world. In addition to the “try ‘em and leave ‘em” mentality that you mentioned, dating also teaches people to practice marriage and divorce. The same emotions that a married couple experience during a divorce, are the very same emotions that people who date experience when a relationship ends. God hates divorce, and it is not His will for us to experience the heartache and damaged emotions that are associated with relationships and break ups. Plus nowhere in the Bible do we read about people dating or even see the terms 'boyfriend/girlfriend' which are also of this world. We only see courtship and the titles of husband and wife. IMO, Christians who understand God's purpose and plan for marriage will not date, they will court. And there is a huge difference in the two…




So how are we to court instead of dating? Are we to just let our parents arrange marriages for us? Are we to stay completely away from the man we want to marry to avoid any sexual thoughts/advances/etc. until the time comes to get married? 

Instead of going out on dates with our significant other/boyfriend, should we spend time praying together, reading the Bible together, fellowshiping with other Christians, and participating in church activities? 

I know I asked a load of questions here...I just would like to hear your thoughts on this; but better yet, Biblical references and scriptures for the answers of these questions.

Thanks in advance!


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## misstobz (Aug 7, 2009)

Interesting thread. I too would like to pose the same question. What is the difference between dating and courting? (excuse my ignorance)


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## Avyn (Aug 7, 2009)

no thoughts on this???

my college pastor said that dating was practicing divorce.  

what is the difference between dating and courting?

whatever its called i think the getting to know you process is important because i know that if i married some of the people who said i was their wife, i would be in a world of hurt.  i think it is extremely important to get to know the nature and disposition of people before saying, "i do."


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## comike (Aug 7, 2009)

IMO dating is simply spending time with a person to get to know them.  It can lead to a relationship but not necessarily.  I think it is a part of courting.  At some point while dating or maybe without really dating a woman, maybe just observing a woman from afar for awhile a man makes the decision that this is the woman he wants to be with exclusively (maybe even marry) and that's when the pursuit begins.  In this day and time, I think courting has been tossed out the window along with marriage because some men have taken the back seat to the pursuit of a woman and instead are being chased down by women.


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## comike (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: Premarital Sex isn't the only Sin - Courting before Marriage*



Poohbear said:


> We all know as Christians that we are to abstain from sex before marriage. (However, we also must keep in mind that God is a forgiving God, and if we feel remorse for having sex outside of marriage, we must confess our sin and repent).
> 
> After reading all the posts in the locked Sex and the Christian Single thread, I would like to take the topic a step further and ask about preparation for marriage. Premarital sex isn't the only sin in the Bible that single men and women can commit. If we really want to get technical with the "Shoulds" and "Should nots", should we refrain from other activities as well that take our attention away from God (watching movies, going places, shopping, playing games, talking on the phone instead of praying to God, etc.)? All these dating activities that don't involve sex can also be considered lust of the eye or lust of the world which are sins against God and do not give God glory.
> 
> ...


 
Life is all about balance.  I think you can enjoy activities, have fun, have hobbies without turning your back on the Lord.  Think of your relationship with God as your relationship with your loved ones.  You can't neglect to spend time with them and still maintain a relationship.  The same can be said about your relationship with the Lord.  

While dating, if you're trying to remain celebate and if you have a problem with being tempted to be sexually involved with the person you are with, you should avoid activities that put you in a compromising situation--for example overnight stays or late nights alone.  And you most definitely have to have a companion that has the same convictions.


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## HWAY (Aug 7, 2009)

Courtship is when 2 people spend time together for the purpose of getting married. Neither one of them is supposed to date or court someone else.

Here are links to 2 interesting articles :
http://www.unlessthelordmagazine.co...ples.
http://www.cfalive.org/ccourtship3.htm


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## aribell (Aug 7, 2009)

As far as the Bible's silence on the topic of dating is concerned, I think that has more to do with the customs of the time and less to do with any scriptural disapproval of the practice of "dating."

The problem that I see with the typical way that bf/gf relationships are carried out today is that they 1) often fail to fulfill the commandment to love thy neighbor, and 2) suck up time and energy that would otherwise be put into kingdom-building activities.  To explain further:

1) Love thy neighbor as thyself, and act with agape love according to 1 Cor. 13.  What often happens is that people go into relationships with the best of _intentions_, saying "I won't hurt you," and encourage the other person to share of themselves, become vulnerable, get attached, have hopes for the future.  And all that is great, except that in the context of dating no one has really made a committment to honor all of those feelings that have been elicited.  Even if I really like someone, it would be unfair of me to encourage him to make me the center of his world, his confidante, to dream about a future unless I actually have plans to follow through with all of that, i.e. unless I have plans to become his wife.

What I like about courting is that it encourages emotional discipline.  If you read authors like Joshua Harris, a main principle that sticks out is guarding your heart in relationships until it becomes clear that the person you are seeing is going to be your spouse.  When Harris proposed to his wife, he said something like "You know how you have been guarding your heart?  Well, I'd like you to stop guarding it now and give it to me."  _He didn't presume to ask for her heart, i.e. to be emotionally intimate with her until he was prepared to ask her to be his wife._

IMO, that's how things should be.  There's too much presumption in dating relationships that says "You owe me intimacy just because we're bf and gf."  Courting says intimacy (*both physical and emotional* should come after committment (a permanent one).

2)  Dating and wasted time and energy.  The way I see it, I will have to give an account to the Lord at the end of the day about how I used my time and energy.  I don't want to say to Him that I spent x number of years flitting in and out of relationships that ultimately served no purpose.  That doesn't mean that any relationship that doesn't end in marriage is a waste of time, just that I should make sure to form relationships with a clear purpose in mind so that I don't end up investing time and energy in relationships that I could have seen from the start were going nowhere.  Or, relationships that themselves led me away from the Lord rather than closer to him.

Courting places an emphasis on ensuring that the relationship is a godly one and being intentional about the direction of the relationship so that there isn't wasted time.

I'm not against dating, since these principles can be incorporated into any relationship.  I think people just need to be emotionally mature and self-aware about things.


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## ladykaya (Aug 7, 2009)

I am definitely not one to know the answer to this question. But when I was growing up I did date, but I always said I was waiting until marriage. It did weed out the guys who couldn't deal with "that" kind of gf. I did fall short when it came to my husband of pre-marital sex, but I asked God for forgiveness and thanked Him for letting my one and only be my husband. IMO I feel it helps when you let people know your intentions up front. It lets people decide weather they are willing to court or date you in a fashion that is pleasing to the eyes of God and comfortable with you.


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## kayte (Aug 8, 2009)

> Dating also teaches us that "try 'em and leave 'em" mentality. I know it's part of our culture, but that's definitely not the way God designed it, which is why people were married (in God's eyes) when they became physical with one another.



*try em *....is how you get to know someone... 
*leave em* is if/ when you gather information that informs you this would not make a healthy marriage or long term relationship
*cleave to em*..lol..is when you do find someone that is compatible in the deepest sense 

what's wrong with that?




> dating also teaches people to practice marriage and divorce. The same emotions that a married couple experience during a divorce, are the very same emotions that people who date experience when a relationship ends.



How does dating does teach practice of marriage to divocre? Are you saying 
that dating is responsible for divorce because the same emotions triggered in a marriage ending ...are the same when a dating romance ends? 
For who? for everyone? for you? and how do you know?

because  it's not dating..it's LIFE....learned as Christians  that teaches us that relationships like anything else of the world... _are temporal_..which means with eternity in view....ALL...is fleeting.... 

this is  NOT restricted to romance..but includes all relationships familial ..work...peer...dating....courting....professional.. etc are subject to ending

and human beings being human beings experience the full spectrum of emotion in any of those categories...from indifference to anguish ..read some of the threads ...hurt or betrayal is not exclusively romance driven......

divorce happens from marrying too young
divorce happens from prior abuse in the home
and not healing 
divorce happens from marrying an alcoholic
and thinking one can change 
myriad of reasons!

to isolate dating as the culprit of divorce is misplaced
imho

I date..
purely social right now...
no sexual relations
God is first

and if out of THAT t..though I'm not loooking for it 
a man/relationship emerges that we mutually want to go to the next 
level where there is commitment....exclusivity ..deeper communicating 
personal ..not sexual..intimacy
THAT is courting....

where's the sin in that.....
but only blessings..as far I see
no..it's true  girlfriends or boyfriends are not mentioned in the bible
nor are computers..televisions airplanes or water skiing

but _biblical principles are universal _and _ageless_ and same
and _that _is the focus 

do not covet your friend's Ipod
do not steal a Sprint notebook ..just cas you can get away with it 
do not buy a "hot " flatscreen


love covers a mutitude of sins
perfect love rules out fear

God gave us common sense..we can use it
Power, love, and a sound mind


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## Shimmie (Aug 8, 2009)

Excellent Discussion   

I realized something... my annointing does not 'flow' with singles.  It's too complicated for my spirit.  However in reading this thread, it just dawned on me the reason why.   God wants his 'daughters' 'Married'.  

This is not a joke.  Everytime these 'single' subjects arise, I'm drawn into the annointing for Marriage.  Instead of being 'single minded' and trying to cope as singles, God wants you to think 'Marriage Minded' and prepare for marriage. 

In looking through the Bible, the Father always 'betrothed' his daughters.  God is your Father and betrothed you shall be.  

_Marriage Blessings_  :Rose:


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## varaneka (Aug 8, 2009)

Subscribing


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## yodie (Aug 8, 2009)

kayte said:


> *try em *....is how you get to know someone...
> *leave em* is if/ when you gather information that informs you this would not make a healthy marriage or long term relationship
> *cleave to em*..lol..is when you do find someone that is compatible in the deepest sense
> 
> ...


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## Spongie Bloom (Aug 8, 2009)

*I seriously dont think going to the cinema or for a meal or for bowling a bad decision, I dont know maybe im a bit simple minded over this but I consider the relationship with a significant other to be just like a relationship with my siblings, parents, close friends. I go to the cinema with all these pple why not a significan other? If your main focus is marriage again i dont see how this is wrong pple relax when they are in a nice relaxing place you are likely to see him for who he is when he has his guard down. Before you go for each meet up just pray on it ask God to reveal to you iwith each meeting f this is the right man for you. *


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## aribell (Aug 8, 2009)

There's a difference between casual "dating" and a committed dating relationship.  I don't think the criticisms of "dating" are aimed toward socializing one-on-one with people of the opposite sex.  They're mainly aimed at the long, drawn out relationships that don't involve discussions or serious intentions of marriage.


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## nissi (Aug 8, 2009)

The church I go to (and even the one before that) definitely supports courting as opposed to dating.  Dating is collecting "data"; it's about romantic, emotional interactions of people of the opposite sex on specific calendar appointments, but with no intention for long-term commitment.  

To me, it's about gratifying the flesh, the emotions and the mind, but with no real solid long-term partnering of purpose (not passion!). It's just so someone can say they have someone, but without real commitment (and maturity IMHO). Also, usually no one shows their true self/face when they are dating, just their best side.

Courting in its purest form would be to have been properly acquainted with the person platonically, so that one can make a proper judgment to hear from God about the person, and then inquire properly with the church leadership/parents and significant others about the person. It is making a formal statement about the person to church leaders, family and others, but it precedes engagement. It's about establishing a connection with your future marital partner under the covering of counseling, study of the Word, prayer and accountability.  BTW, the man is the initiator in a godly relationship, not the other way around! (See Pr. 18:22; Gen. 2:22-24; Mt. 19:5.)

Too many times singles hook up dating, kissing, squeezing and whatever else their conscience will allow, and then they separate for whatever reason (usually because one or the other was looking for someone cuter/better/etc.). But one side has made a significant soul tie and almost needs deliverance, while the other has moved on, because it never meant that much to them anyway.  

The courting method protects people and keeps them honest IMHO.


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## Raspberry (Aug 8, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> As far as the Bible's silence on the topic of dating is concerned, I think that has more to do with the customs of the time and less to do with any scriptural disapproval of the practice of "dating."
> 
> The problem that I see with the typical way that bf/gf relationships are carried out today is that they 1) often fail to fulfill the commandment to love thy neighbor, and 2) suck up time and energy that would otherwise be put into kingdom-building activities.  To explain further:
> 
> ...



This is an excellent post.  

I've been pondering the idea of courting and emotional discipline.  I know that aligning my mindset to God's in the areas of marriage preparation has been challenging and even painful for me at times. It's crazy how much damage looking for emotional and sexual validation in a non-marital context can do to a woman - and that damage is often unaccounted for until we are willing to submit to God's will and healing process.  But in the big picture the emotional and physical discipline is very beneficial for  marriage and in other personal relationships as well.  

Your post reminds me that what I may experience has emotional and sexual deprivation right now is seen much differently by God and will bear much fruit if I stay open and don't lose heart.


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## Renewed1 (Aug 8, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> In looking through the Bible, the Father always 'betrothed' his daughters. God is your Father and betrothed you shall be.


 
Shimmie, girl, if you can some of us a timeframe on when that will happen.  It will be greatly appreciated.

Just Kidding!


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## Shimmie (Aug 9, 2009)

Changed said:


> Shimmie, girl, if you can some of us a timeframe on when that will happen. It will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Just Kidding!


 


  Angel, just be 'ready'.   Prepare yourself as Esther did.  She prepared herself for more than _'One Night with the King..."_ 


And He offered her whatever she wanted, even up to half of his Kingdom.   

Just be ready...


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## aribell (Aug 9, 2009)

Raspberry said:


> I've been pondering the idea of courting and emotional discipline. I know that aligning my mindset to God's in the areas of marriage preparation has been challenging and even painful for me at times. It's crazy how much damage looking for emotional and sexual validation in a non-marital context can do to a woman - and that damage is often unaccounted for until we are willing to submit to God's will and healing process. But in the big picture the emotional and physical discipline is very beneficial for marriage and in other personal relationships as well.
> 
> *Your post reminds me that what I may experience has emotional and sexual deprivation right now is seen much differently by God and will bear much fruit if I stay open and don't lose heart*.


 
This is the truth.  Don't lose heart!  It may appear that we are missing out on something by holding out for God's best, but it only takes one little detour off of God's path to see the harsh reality of sin and broken relationships so prevalent in the world's way of doing things.  Concrete experiences have taught me that just like the word says, the devil is a liar, and wisdom is justified by her children.


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## momi (Aug 9, 2009)

nissi said:


> The church I go to (and even the one before that) definitely supports courting as opposed to dating. Dating is collecting "data"; it's about romantic, emotional interactions of people of the opposite sex on specific calendar appointments, but with no intention for long-term commitment.
> 
> To me, it's about gratifying the flesh, the emotions and the mind, but with no real solid long-term partnering of purpose (not passion!). It's just so someone can say they have someone, but without real commitment (and maturity IMHO). Also, usually no one shows their true self/face when they are dating, just their best side.
> 
> ...


 

Wow - I am surprised to hear that your church supports and encourages "courting".  Would you mind sharing what type of church you attend?  Is it a black church? Denomination?


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## music-bnatural-smile (Aug 9, 2009)

why call it anything...
why not just find someone you love and cherish that shares the same belief values that you do...
thats a lot easier to understand than any "rules" we could set for ourselves...


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## jwhitley6 (Aug 10, 2009)

A close friend of mine attended a church that promoted "courting".  She and her SO/fiance met at the church and didn't have sex, make out, etc.  They attended pre-marital counseling through the church and did things "God's way"....they married and then separated *4 months later*.  They are now divorced (with a child conceived during their 4 month marriage).  I think sometimes we are so heavenly minded that we are no earthly good!  We are humans and need to be able to relate to each other as such.  My friend and her husband were unprepared for a real life together.  I believe that if they had taken the time to get to know each other for who they were (not just who they hoped to be with God's help) things would have been different.  Just because a man is in church and loves the Lord, it does not mean he's the man for you.


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## CurlyGirl1996 (Aug 10, 2009)

yodie said:


> kayte said:
> 
> 
> > *try em *....is how you get to know someone...
> ...


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## nissi (Aug 10, 2009)

momi said:


> Wow - I am surprised to hear that your church supports and encourages "courting".  Would you mind sharing what type of church you attend?  Is it a black church? Denomination?



Yes, it's a black church, Pentecostal/charismatic, even though we do have other races attend. Our church does support courting because healthy human relationships and marriage is of God.  Remember, we don't support "dating," but definitely courting when *mature* individuals make the right decision at the right time and right place toward marriage under counseling and a course of accountability...

...and even though they are supposed to be mature, because they are two imperfect individuals, they very well may need counseling to *stay* together.  i can think of at least four couples in our church who were on the verge of divorce that are together today (that had been married 14 years, 20 years...the others i don't remember), because they still needed to walk in God's counsel and accountability. marriage ain't easy, chile!


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## momi (Aug 10, 2009)

nissi said:


> Yes, it's a black church, Pentecostal/charismatic, even though we do have other races attend. Our church does support courting because healthy human relationships and marriage is of God. Remember, we don't support "dating," but definitely courting when *mature* individuals make the right decision at the right time and right place toward marriage under counseling and a course of accountability...
> 
> ...and even though they are supposed to be mature, because they are two imperfect individuals, they very well may need counseling to *stay* together. i can think of at least four couples in our church who were on the verge of divorce that are together today (that had been married 14 years, 20 years...the others i don't remember), because they still needed to walk in God's counsel and accountability. marriage ain't easy, chile!


 

I fully support the courting process in conjunction with mentoring from other couples as well.  Many times, others are able to point out areas that need to be improved or considered prior to continuing through the process.

Thanks for the info - I cannot think of one church in my area where "courting" is fully supported... 

Yes, you are right - marriage is not a relationship to be entered into lightly.  IMHO this is partly because we have an inappropriate view of "love and relationships" that is not biblical... but that is another thread.


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## Poohbear (Aug 10, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Excellent Discussion
> 
> I realized something... my annointing does not 'flow' with singles.  It's too complicated for my spirit.  However in reading this thread, it just dawned on me the reason why.   God wants his 'daughters' 'Married'.
> 
> ...


Well, I wouldn't consider this just a 'single' subject.  I'm currently in a relationship right now and my boyfriend and I have discussed wanting to get married to each other.  I posted this thread to see what should we actually be doing before getting married to prepare for marriage. Unlike other relationships I've been in, I feel like this guy I'm with now is a potential husband. We've had our share of ups and downs, but have been able to work through the downs successfully. At the same time, I don't want to waste time and energy if this relationship is not glorifying God.


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## Poohbear (Aug 10, 2009)

I've been liking the responses to this thread. It's making me feel more comfortable about this.  I do pray to God about this, but sometimes I just would like to see the thoughts of other women about this too.


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## nissi (Aug 10, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> I've been liking the responses to this thread. It's making me feel more comfortable about this.  I do pray to God about this, but sometimes I just would like to see the thoughts of other women about this too.



best wishes poohbear!


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> Well, I wouldn't consider this just a 'single' subject.
> 
> I'm currently in a relationship right now and my boyfriend and I have discussed wanting to get married to each other. I posted this thread to see what should we actually be doing before getting married to prepare for marriage. Unlike other relationships I've been in, I feel like this guy I'm with now is a potential husband. We've had our share of ups and downs, but have been able to work through the downs successfully. At the same time, I don't want to waste time and energy if this relationship is not glorifying God.


I was 'wondering' where you 'was'.....     Welcome back to your thread.  

I'm with you because we do 'tend' to get quite 'comfortable' in these types of relationships.   We tend to 'close' ourselves off from anyone else 'potential, especially for 'fear' of hurting the 'other' or from the fear of losing what we have and have made a 'home' in our hearts with, by allowing another potential to be explored.   Hence 'we' close the door. 

In prayer, my answer has always been, _"It's your choice"._ 

 Now, that really helps alot...  

Pooh, I'll be honest.   

There has to be a healthy 'male balance' in my life.    It can't be non-inclusive of male interaction.   And I'm not talking serxual interaction, but normal male friends in my life.     

Being around women all the time would drive me completlely nuts.   I serious!   We talk too much ...     Fuss too much    Cry too much     On the train, I keep my headphones in play.   Too much jabber jabber jabber.  

And I'm one of them.   I get on my own nerves sometimes.    

I just can't handle life without men to balance me out.   I can't. 

It's just not normal neither is it healthy to not have male friendships;  I'm speaking of *Godly* _platonic _ones.   

*I know that I am not the only Christian woman who feels this way and still has a Godly heart*.  

I pray that this is not a stumbling block or misleading to anyone.  I truly pray this!   But there has to be a healthy balance in our lives with men to balance us as women.    But we can't throw caution to the wind and not guard ourselves or them.     

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm glad you have a 'male friend' in your life and that he wants to marry you.     I wish you all the best.  I truly do.   :Rose:   

Disclaimer:  ..........  I don't have one.


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## Nice & Wavy (Aug 10, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> I was 'wondering' where you 'was'.....  Welcome back to your thread.
> 
> I'm with you because we do 'tend' to get quite 'comfortable' in these types of relationships. We tend to 'close' ourselves off from anyone else 'potential, especially for 'fear' of hurting the 'other' or from the fear of losing what we have and have made a 'home' in our hearts with, by allowing another potential to be explored. Hence 'we' close the door.
> 
> ...


I thought I was the only one who felt this way....  Glad to know I'm not alone


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2009)

Nice & Wavy said:


> I thought I was the only one who felt this way.... Glad to know I'm not alone


 

I know, I've had to put earplugs on myself to 'ignore' myself.


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## Poohbear (Aug 10, 2009)

at wondering where I 'was'. Heehee!

But anyway, I'm not shutting myself out from the world by being with this man.  I do have normal male friends and female friends alike. I didn't say anything about not having male friendships.  I'm not around women all the time either. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Personally, I'm usually to myself or around my family most of the time. However, I'm not going to date other men while I'm exclusively with my official boyfriend. That would be cheating in my opinion. I talk to and text with male friends occasionally, and may even see them (not alone), but I will not date them while I'm in a relationship with another man.




Shimmie said:


> *I was 'wondering' where you 'was'.....
> 
> I'm with you because we do 'tend' to get quite 'comfortable' in these types of relationships.   We tend to 'close' ourselves off from anyone else 'potential, especially for 'fear' of hurting the 'other' or from the fear of losing what we have and have made a 'home' in our hearts with, by allowing another potential to be explored.   Hence 'we' close the door. *    Welcome back to your thread.
> 
> ...


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## Shimmie (Aug 10, 2009)

Poohbear said:


> at wondering where I 'was'. Heehee!
> 
> But anyway, I'm not shutting myself out from the world by being with this man. I do have normal male friends and female friends alike. I didn't say anything about not having male friendships. I'm not around women all the time either. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Personally, I'm usually to myself or around my family most of the time. However, I'm not going to date other men while I'm exclusively with my official boyfriend. That would be cheating in my opinion. I talk to and text with male friends occasionally, and may even see them (not alone), but I will not date them while I'm in a relationship with another man.


 
This...
*I was 'wondering' where you 'was'..... *

and this...

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm glad you have a 'male friend' in your life and that he wants to marry you.  I wish you all the best. I truly do. :Rose:   

... is just for you.    

The rest is a montage of  _'general applications'_ of everything I've read and the conclusion in life which I've come to for me personally.     :Rose:


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## Spongie Bloom (Aug 10, 2009)

momi said:


> I fully support the courting process in conjunction with mentoring from other couples as well. Many times, others are able to point out areas that need to be improved or considered prior to continuing through the process.
> 
> Thanks for the info - I cannot think of one church in my area where "courting" is fully supported...
> 
> Yes, you are right - marriage is not a relationship to be entered into lightly. *IMHO this is partly because we have an inappropriate view of "love and relationships" that is not biblical... but that is another thread*.


 
*Do you mind starting a thread on this, it would make a great discussion i think cause I will be interested in reading your thoughts on this*


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## akilijata (Aug 10, 2009)

I don't post often but had to regarding this issue.  I found some really excellent information relative to dating vs. courting; biblical husband/wife.  They were quite informative. The links are: 

Biblical Wives: 
http://www.kaleochurch.com/sermon/biblical-wives-112507-sdsu/

Biblical Husbands:
http://www.kaleochurch.com/sermon/biblical-husbands/

Biblical Courtship:
http://www.kaleochurch.com/sermon/biblical-courtship/

I hope these sermons are helpful.

Annette


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## momi (Aug 10, 2009)

Spongie Bloom said:


> *Do you mind starting a thread on this, it would make a great discussion i think cause I will be interested in reading your thoughts on this*



Hmmm.... I just might do that.


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## Poohbear (Aug 18, 2009)

momi said:


> I fully support the courting process in conjunction with mentoring from other couples as well.  Many times, others are able to point out areas that need to be improved or considered prior to continuing through the process.
> 
> Thanks for the info - I cannot think of one church in my area where "courting" is fully supported...
> 
> Yes, you are right - marriage is not a relationship to be entered into lightly.  IMHO this is partly because *we have an inappropriate view of "love and relationships" that is not biblical*... but that is another thread.


I agree! It seems like the world has made "love and relationships" into this big time sex craze or something.


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## Ramya (Aug 18, 2009)

akilijata said:


> I don't post often but had to regarding this issue.  I found some really excellent information relative to dating vs. courting; biblical husband/wife.  They were quite informative. The links are:
> 
> Biblical Wives:
> http://www.kaleochurch.com/sermon/biblical-wives-112507-sdsu/
> ...



WOW! I just blogged about this yesterday. I'm printing this to read and meditate on before bed. Thanks.


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## xcuzememiss (Apr 8, 2010)

DEFF. subscribing to this thread. i need all the help I can get. I've been with my boyfriend for 7yrs. we met in H.S. and been together ever since. We've never stepped out on each other and we love and respect each other dearly. We do have diff views on sex and living together. I was raised in a Christian household where none of this was allowed , but he wasn't. uggghhhh whats a girl to do. we've talked about marriage and do want to get married.


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## ladykaya (Apr 8, 2010)

So what is your real question? It sounds like you guys are just waiting for the right time on marriage. Its good that you guys are in love and have been together for that long.


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## Poohbear (Apr 10, 2010)

ladykaya said:


> So what is your real question? It sounds like you guys are just waiting for the right time on marriage. Its good that you guys are in love and have been together for that long.


The real question is: why do many Christians disregard or lose sight of other sins while putting big emphasizes on premarital sex as the ultimate sin for unmarried people?


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## empressaja (Apr 12, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> The real question is: why do many Christians disregard or lose sight of other sins while putting big emphasizes on premarital sex as the ultimate sin for unmarried people?




What are the other sins are you referring to?


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## Guitarhero (Apr 12, 2010)

I'd say that all sin is wrong but it's relative. If I work in a bank, I need to keep in mind not to steal. If I am living somewhere where the concept of gods don't exist, I need to keep in mind that I have to honor the One I know as King of my life.  And if I'm in a relationship with a man, I need to remind myself not to fornicate.  People aren't passing up other sins but all sins carry different effects and weights.


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## Poohbear (Apr 12, 2010)

birdie said:


> What are the other sins are you referring to?


Any other sin besides sexual immorality which can be anything... profanity, quarreling, gossip, strife, pride, greed, lust, love of money, et cetera...

The reason I mention this is because I know a lot of people see virginity as being pure, holy, godly, good, etc. but doesn't all sin make a person impure? Virgins sin too...they just don't do the sin of sexual immorality (hope that makes sense).


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## ladykaya (Apr 12, 2010)

Well it is all wrong. If its wrong as a Christian you are not suppose to do it. I am not one to judge because I know I have sinned. I know I had premarital sex with only my now husband. I know I lived with my now husband before we were married. At the same time, I acknowledge it is wrong and I can't look at someone else and say that they shouldn't do it because I didn't do it. But I can suggest that they look to God for their answers. 

If I could take it back and do the right thing I would still end up with my husband but I know it would be special and right in God's eyes. But I didn't do that I have prayed and asked for forgiveness with God and have learned to tell others that don't look at the society. People look at me and my husband as weird because we are actually in love we had kids in our marriage and there is no drama between us. People don't believe us when we say we don't really fight and we are each other's one and only. But we don't care we just do us and realize it God who is our right judge not the world. Society has put things out as normal that shouldn't be. Living together before marriage sleeping with people you love before marriage, it is sin just like lying, stealing music, and others of nameless sins.

To answer your original question is that what ever is considered unclean for a girl is what you will get a lot of flack on from many Christians. Women get the most scrutiny for this. I don't know why maybe someone will chime in on their belief about it. Most men won't hear about it because it seems ok for them. but I know you will probably hear about it more then your man will. My suggestion is to think about what you feel and if you deem it wrong. The bible put it in there for people to control their urges and not submit to the flesh. Your husband is suppose to be your one and only lover. But there are instances in death or divorce where that may not always be the case. Then its also just shows in nature why things should just stay in marriage. The option of having children and raising them, diseases, and that sex feels its best when it is with your spouse whom you love and are in tune with. 

Sorry for rambling, but I hope you get my drift...lol All and all if you were my friend I wouldn't judge you if you move in with you bf before marriage, but I would suggest if you are having a hard time deciding then take it to the Lord in prayer.


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## Poohbear (Apr 13, 2010)

Yep, I got your drift. I don't think you rambled. Thanks for your response. I think it's important not to be judgemental toward other people and their relationships.

I often wonder about this as well... I see that you mentioned having sex before marriage and even living together before marriage... things that Christians speak against so strongly.  People go to the extreme to say that premarital sex and living together will lower your chances of getting married but I see the opposite sometimes, just like in your case.  My parents also had sex before marriage, they didn't live together, but they are now still married for over 30 years and will most likely stay married til they die. Divorce is not even an option at all for them.

So here's my other questions... does marriage somewhat save people from sin as well? Is that why most Christian women really want to find a man and get married, so they can have all the sex they want in line with God's standards and intentions for sex? Can a man or woman still be wrong for wanting to marry just for the sake of having sex, not so much to please God?


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## loolalooh (Apr 13, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> Yep, I got your drift. I don't think you rambled. Thanks for your response. I think it's important not to be judgemental toward other people and their relationships.
> 
> I often wonder about this as well... I see that you mentioned having sex before marriage and even living together before marriage... things that Christians speak against so strongly. People go to the extreme to say that premarital sex and living together will lower your chances of getting married but I see the opposite sometimes, just like in your case. My parents also had sex before marriage, they didn't live together, but they are now still married for over 30 years and will most likely stay married til they die. Divorce is not even an option at all for them.
> 
> So here's my other questions... does marriage somewhat save people from sin as well? Is that why most Christian women really want to find a man and get married, so they can have all the sex they want in line with God's standards and intentions for sex? *Can a man or woman still be wrong for wanting to marry just for the sake of having sex, not so much to please God?*


 
To the bolded, I think yes.  A man and woman should want to marry for the sake of reproducing, uniting spirtually, and of better serving God, but not for the sake of having sex.  (BTW, this is just my opinion; I don't have a quick reference to Scripture to confirm it so feel free to pick it apart.)


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## ladykaya (Apr 13, 2010)

Poohbear said:


> So here's my other questions... does marriage somewhat save people from sin as well? Is that why most Christian women really want to find a man and get married, so they can have all the sex they want in line with God's standards and intentions for sex? Can a man or woman still be wrong for wanting to marry just for the sake of having sex, not so much to please God?



Marriage doesn't save you, repentance and accepting Jesus does. Most Christian women when it comes to marriage it is mostly about the companionship. Sex is apart of it but its mostly about having a man to support you and build a family with. I remember getting married because I had my husband's rib. We are well connected and I didn't see my life without him. I cry sometimes during sex because the connection is so strong. Its just a perk of being married. I look at our son and I see why family is important and why God created us to be fruitful and multiply. These are things that you can't really explain its something that is second nature to us. Marriage was created by God for those who could not be alone and wanted to be pure in their sexual relationships as well as the proper family environment for raising children. 

If people marry only for sex they will not make it in a marriage. As our household is held; God is first, husband 2nd, me 3rd and children 4th. It is a proper order of love, respect, and great companionship. Thats why I am a strong person of marriage only for people who truly want to make it work and really love each other.


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## Guitarhero (Apr 13, 2010)

I wish to build a wonderful union in spirit and soul on the same goals.  Sex is a perk and gift for marriage.  It's not the reason I want to get married.  I want to give love and support for another in the deepest of ways and that can only IMHO be given in matrimony.


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## Renovating (Apr 13, 2010)

CreoleNat said:


> I wish to build a wonderful union in spirit and soul on the same goals. Sex is a perk and gift for marriage. It's not the reason I want to get married. I want to give love and support for another in the deepest of ways and that can only IMHO be given in matrimony.


 

Beautiful CreoleNat! This perfectly explains the reason why I desire marriage as well. ( the true meaning of intimacy and companionship)


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## Poohbear (Apr 13, 2010)

ladykaya said:


> Marriage doesn't save you, repentance and accepting Jesus does. Most Christian women when it comes to marriage it is mostly about the companionship. Sex is apart of it but its mostly about having a man to support you and build a family with. I remember getting married because I had my husband's rib. We are well connected and I didn't see my life without him. I cry sometimes during sex because the connection is so strong. Its just a perk of being married. I look at our son and I see why family is important and why God created us to be fruitful and multiply. These are things that you can't really explain its something that is second nature to us. Marriage was created by God for those who could not be alone and wanted to be pure in their sexual relationships as well as the proper family environment for raising children.
> 
> If people marry only for sex they will not make it in a marriage. As our household is held; God is first, husband 2nd, me 3rd and children 4th. It is a proper order of love, respect, and great companionship. Thats why I am a strong person of marriage only for people who truly want to make it work and really love each other.


I agree with what you have said. Good post.

I know marriage doesn't save you, but I think there are some people that once they get married, they act like they are "holier than thou" since they don't have sex outside of marriage anymore.

And it seems like there are some women that want to rush into marriage to "save" themselves from committing fornication.


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## Poohbear (Apr 13, 2010)

CreoleNat said:


> I wish to build a wonderful union in spirit and soul on the same goals. Sex is a perk and gift for marriage. It's not the reason I want to get married. I want to give love and support for another in the deepest of ways and that can only IMHO be given in matrimony.


Very good. This is what I want as well.


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