# Feds Raid California ‘maternity Hotels’ For Birth Tourists



## NappyNelle (Jan 13, 2018)

Southern California apartment complexes that doubled as "maternity hotels" for Chinese women who want made-in-America babies were raided early Tuesday, capping an unprecedented federal sting operation, officials said.

NBC News was on the scene as Homeland Security agents swept into The Carlyle, a luxury property in Irvine, California, which housed pregnant women and new moms who allegedly forked over $40,000 to $80,000 to give birth in the United States.

"I am doing this for the education of the next generation," one of the women told NBC News.

None of the women were arrested; they are being treated as material witnesses, and paramedics were on hand in case any of them went into labor during the sweep.

Instead, the investigation was aimed at ringleaders who pocketed hundreds of thousands of dollars tax-free to help Chinese nationals obtain visas and then pamper them until they delivered in an American hospital at a discount, court papers show.

"It's not necessarily illegal to come here to have the baby, but if you lie about your reasons for coming here, that's visa fraud," said Claude Arnold, special agent in charge of Homeland Security Investigations for Los Angeles.

All told, the feds raided 20 locations in Los Angeles, Orange and San Bernardino counties, targeting three competing birth tourism schemes, officials said. The suspected operators have not been charged but are being questioned.

The organizers who allegedly ran the Carlyle site, Chao Chen and Dong Li, used a website to drum up business, touting the benefits of a child with U.S. citizenship: 13 years of free education, low-cost college financial aid, less pollution, and a path for the entire family to emigrate when the child becomes an adult.




Image from a website that federal authorities say was used to recruit Chinese women to come to the U.S. to have their babies. youyunmeiguo
Clients were counseled on what lies to tell to obtain a tourist visa; how to fly through Hawaii, Las Vegas or Korea to avoid suspicious immigration officers at Los Angeles International Airport; and how to disguise their pregnancy in transit, according to search warrant affidavit unsealed Tuesday.

The women were then set up at the Carlyle, which charges about $3,000 a month for a two-bedroom apartment and features amenities including private balconies, a resort-style pool, and cabanas with flat-screen televisions.

A neighbor, Linda Trust, told NBC News she did find it strange that she had seen a forklift deliver a huge pile of diapers to the buildings but had never seen a baby.

The women's handlers provided transportation for doctor visits and trips to restaurants and shops, the court papers say. An agent tailing one of the suspects followed them to Target and Babies R Us.

They were funneled to several Orange County hospitals to deliver, but they didn't pay full price — approximately $25,000 — for medical services, officials said. Instead, they got reduced rates for the indigent, ranging from nothing to $4,000, the court papers say.

That translated into big losses for the hospitals. More than 400 babies linked to the scheme were born at just one facility in a two-year period, investigators said.

The investigators discovered that the parents of one baby born in April 2014 who paid the hospital just $4,000 were spending money at the Wynn Las Vegas Hotel, Rolex and Louis Vuitton, using an account with almost a quarter of a million dollars in it.

The fraud, authorities say, went beyond the visas.

Li didn't file a U.S. tax return and Chen didn't declare hundreds of thousands of dollars in proceeds, the affidavit says. In addition, Chen and his wife, Jie Zhu committed marriage fraud, pretending to be divorced so they could get "green-card" marriages in the U.S., the feds charged.

Efforts to reach Chen, Zhu and Li by phone were unsuccessful. It was not clear if they have retained legal counsel.

The phenomenon of foreigners coming to the U.S. to have babies is not new but appears to be growing. One study found that 40,000 children a year are born to women here on a travel visa, the affidavit notes.




Image from a website that federal authorities say was used to recruit Chinese women to come to the U.S. to have their babies.
Tuesday's crackdown marked the first large-scale federal probe of birth-tourism kingpins in the continental U.S.

In addition to the operation at the Carlyle, the feds zeroed in on two other alleged schemes.

Wen Rui Deng, Li Yan Lang and Wen Shan Sun were accused of charging women $10,000 to $25,000 to put them up at the Pheasant Ridge apartments in Rowland Heights, where the "one dragon service" included baby nurses, the court papers say.

A company called USA Happy Baby, run by Michael Wei Yueh Liu and Jing Dong, set up at The Reserves apartments in Rancho Cucamonga, authorities charged.

The probe into the Carlyle started in June 2014 when the Irvine Police Department received an anonymous tip about the scheme that was turned over to Homeland Security. Separately, U.S. Customs and Immigration Services received a similar tip.




Image from a website that federal authorities say was used to recruit Chinese women to come to the U.S. to have their babies.
An agent posed as a client who wanted to arrange for his cousin to give birth in America, and got Chen to spill the details of the scheme — from how his China-based employees would "prep" the woman for her consulate interview to why she should not fly straight to LA.

"I don't do it because it's too risky," he said. "That's because 90 percent of the work is already done before they come over, and if they get sent back on the same plane, then I'm the one to blame for it."

The investigators went through Li's trash, examined hospital records, followed the suspects and their clients on a trip to a Chinese restaurant and combed through bank records.

At one point, Chen was caught on tape fretting to the undercover that the government might realize he was not paying taxes he owed on money he collected in China.

"I do file taxes but there are so any things that I can't explain clearly," he said. 

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/feds-raid-l-maternity-hotel-birth-tourists-n315996


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## Femmefatal1981 (Jan 13, 2018)

SO when are we gonna  raid the Russians doing this is Miami?


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## NappyNelle (Jan 13, 2018)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> SO when are we gonna  raid the Russians doing this is Miami?



I was just about to add that article!

*Birth tourism brings Russian baby boom to Miami*

MIAMI — Lured by the charm of little Havana or the glamour of South Beach, some 15 million tourists visit Miami every year.

But for a growing number of Russian women, the draw isn't sunny beaches or pulsing nightclubs. It's U.S. citizenship for their newborn children.

In Moscow, it's a status symbol to have a Miami-born baby, and social media is full of Russian women boasting of their little _americantsy_.







Facebook
Twitter
Embed
Why Russian mothers-to-be are rushing to Florida to give birth4:14
"It's really common," said Ekaterina Kuznetsova, 29. "When I was taking the plane to come here, it was not only me. It was four or five women flying here."

Ekaterina was one of dozens of Russian birth tourists NBC News spoke to over the past four months about a round-trip journey that costs tens of thousands of dollars and takes them away from home for weeks or months.

Why do they come?

"American passport is a big plus for the baby. Why not?" Olesia Reshetova, 31, told NBC News.

"And the doctors, the level of education," Kuznetsova added.

The weather doesn't hurt, either.

"It's a very comfortable place for staying in wintertime," Oleysa Suhareva said.




Oleysa Suhareva traveled from Russia to Miami to give birth. Courtesy Oleysa Suhareva
It's not just the Russians who are coming. Chinese moms-to-be have been flocking to Southern California to give birth for years.

What they are doing is completely legal, as long as they don't lie on any immigration or insurance paperwork. In fact, it's protected by the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which says anyone born on American soil is automatically a citizen.

The child gets a lifelong right to live and work and collect benefits in the U.S. And when they turn 21 they can sponsor their parents' application for an American green card.

As president, Donald Trump has indicated he is opposed to so-called chain migration, which gives U.S. citizens the right to sponsor relatives, because of recent terror attacks. And as a candidate, he called for an end to birthright citizenship, declaring it in one of his first policy papers the "biggest magnet for illegal immigration."

"You have to get rid of it," he said on "Meet the Press" on NBC. "They're having a baby and all of a sudden — nobody knows — the baby is here. You have no choice."

In a twist, as the Daily Beast first reported, condo buildings that bear the Trump name are the most popular for the out-of-town obstetric patients, although the units are subleased from the individual owners and it's not clear if building management is aware.

There is no indication that Trump or the Trump Organization is profiting directly from birth tourism; the company and the White House did not respond to requests for comment.

Roman Bokeria, the state director of the Florida Association of Realtors told NBC News that Trump- branded buildings in the Sunny Isles Beach area north of Miami are particularly popular with the Russian birth tourists and Russian immigrants.

"Sunny Isles beach has a nickname — Little Russia — because people who are moving from Russian-speaking countries to America, they want … a familiar environment."

"They go across the street, they have Russian market, Russian doctor, Russian lawyer," he added. "It's very comfortable for them."




Oleysa Suhareva's baby became an American citizen by being born in Miami. Courtesy Oleysa Suhareva
Reshetova came to Miami to have her first child, hiring an agency to help arrange her trip. The services — which can include finding apartments and doctors and obtaining visas — don't come cheap. She expects to pay close to $50,000, and some packages run as high as $100,000. Bokeria says some landlords ask for six months rent up front.

One firm, Miami Mama, says it brings about 100 Russian and Russian-speaking clients to the U.S. per year, 30 percent of them repeat clients. The owners are Irina and Konstantin Lubnevskiy, who bought Miami Mama after using the firm to have two American children themselves.

The couple says they counsel clients to be completely transparent with U.S. immigration officials that they're expecting.

"We tell every client, 'You have the documents, you have to tell the truth. This is America. They like the truth here,'" Konstantin said.

"I would like the American people to understand they don't have to worry," he added. "Those who come here want to become part of the American people."

But Miami Mami has drawn scrutiny from law enforcement. In June, it was raided by the FBI, and an employee was convicted of making false statements on passport applications. The owners say they knew nothing about it, fired the worker and their business license was renewed.

Federal prosecutors declined to comment on the case, and the FBI said it could not discuss "an active investigation."

There is no official data on birth tourism in the United States. The Center for Immigration Studies, which wants stricter limits on immigration, estimates there are 36,000 babies born in the U.S. to foreign nationals a year, though the numbers could be substantially lower. Florida says births in the state by all foreign nationals who live outside the United States have jumped 200 percent since 2000.

Customs and Border Protection says there are no laws governing whether pregnant foreign nationals can enter the country or give birth here.

"However, if a pregnant woman or anyone else uses fraud or deception to obtain a visa or gain admission to the United States, that would constitute a criminal act," the agency said.

When federal agents raided California "maternity hotels" catering to Chinese clients in 2015, authorities said in court papers that some of the families falsely claimed they were indigent and got reduced hospital rates.

In Miami, the Jackson Health System said 72 percent of international maternity patients — who represented 8 percent of all patients giving birth last year — pay with insurance or through a pre-arranged package.

Reshetova said she understands the concerns some have about birth tourism, because it's also an issue in Russia.

"But I pay by myself," she said. "I pay with my money, bring it here to America. I'm not going to take something to America.

"I don't know what my daughter will choose in future. But if I can spend money — my money — for her choice, why not?"

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/birth-tourism-brings-russian-baby-boom-miami-n836121

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And we all know why these facilities haven't been raided. SMH


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## Transformer (Jan 13, 2018)

Well they are ALMOST Norwegians.


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## ThursdayGirl (Jan 13, 2018)

No to all of it.  Just NO!  I do not like TRump, but if he puts a stop to this, then good.


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## RoundEyedGirl504 (Jan 13, 2018)

As long as this doesn’t take off with Africans or Carribeans I’m sure the blind eye will be turned.


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## intellectualuva (Jan 13, 2018)

Not surprised. I'd do it. Lol. If I wanted kids, I would have a baby in a few different western countries.....especially for the healthcare..like Canada or one of those 1 year off family leave countries. Lol. 

We all know the white Russians is who they want. They already think folks from the Carribbean and countries in Africa do this.
White folks lose their ish over the Asians though because that's who they consider the real competition for their kids. I read the comments on those articles.


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## bajandoc86 (Jan 13, 2018)

@RoundEyedGirl504  A LOT of Jamaicans do this. Not the whole paying an agency thousands of dollars bit. But they go to Canada and the US to have their children for the passport/citizenship. They usually have family or friends to stay with. I find a lot of middle to upper class Jamaicans do this and I was honestly was quite surprised when I discovered that when I moved here. 

For me it seemed strange because even rich Bajans tend to have their kids at home, but we also aren’t traditionally big on emigration.


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## RoundEyedGirl504 (Jan 13, 2018)

bajandoc86 said:


> @RoundEyedGirl504  A LOT of Jamaicans do this. Not the whole paying an agency thousands of dollars bit. But they go to Canada and the US to have their children for the passport/citizenship. They usually have family or friends to stay with. I find a lot of middle to upper class Jamaicans do this and I was honestly was quite surprised when I discovered that when I moved here.
> 
> For me it seemed strange because even rich Bajans tend to have their kids at home, but we also aren’t traditionally big on emigration.


Interesting I didn’t know this!


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## nubiangoddess3 (Jan 13, 2018)

ThursdayGirl said:


> No to all of it.  Just NO!  I do not like TRump, but if he puts a stop to this, then good.




I agree, America is still one of the few countries that allow citizenship just by being born in the country. France and Britain did away with the law years ago.

I know a lot of wealthy Africans who come to the USA just to give birth so their child gets US citizenship.


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## intellectualuva (Jan 13, 2018)

nubiangoddess3 said:


> I agree, America is still one one of the few countries that allow citizenship just by being born in the country. *France and Britain did away with the law years ago.*
> 
> I know a lot of wealth Africans who come USA just to give birth so their child get US citizenship.



I didn't know this. I figured everyone could go have children in a different coiuntry and boom citizen. 

Now I wonder are we the only western country left that does this and when will white people decide to do away with it...if they can. Stuff like this makes me think all of this would be done with a Pence presidency. He's much more scary in his ability to do ish like this that Trump isn't.


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## PJaye (Jan 13, 2018)

America needs to get rid of the "citizenship by birth" rule.  It should've been done long ago.


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## Menina Preta (Jan 13, 2018)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> As long as this doesn’t take off with Africans or Carribeans I’m sure the blind eye will be turned.



Lol.  It has already taken off...folks with means come and have their kids here.

Big in Houston among Nigerians. I have a cousin whose mom did that. She came to stay with our family up here till she gave birth. Lots of Caribbean and African people do this. I don't blame them. Pay back for centuries of imperialism...


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## nubiangoddess3 (Jan 13, 2018)

@intellectualuva 


> *Birth tourism* is travel to another country for the purpose of giving birth in that country. "Anchor baby" is another related term which can have negative connotations. The main reason for birth tourism is to obtain citizenship for the child in a country with birthright citizenship (_jus soli_). Other reasons include access to public schooling, healthcare, sponsorship for the parents in the future,[1]or even circumvention of China's two-child policy. *Popular destinations include the United States and Canada. Another target for birth tourism is Hong Kong,* where mainland Chinese citizens travel to give birth to gain right of abode for their children.
> 
> *To discourage birth tourism, Australia, France, Germany, Ireland, New Zealand, South Africa, and the United Kingdom have modified their citizenship laws at different times, granting citizenship by birth only if at least one parent is a citizen of the country or a legal permanent resident who has lived in the country for several years. Germany has never granted unconditional birthright citizenship, but has traditionally used jus sanguinis, so, by giving up the requirement of at least one citizen parent, Germany has softened rather than tightened its citizenship laws*; however, unlike their children born and grown up in Germany, non-EU- and non-Swiss-citizen parents born and grown up abroad usually cannot have dual citizenship themselves.
> 
> *No European country presently grants unconditional birthright citizenship; however, most countries in the Americas, e.g., the United States, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil do so. In Africa, Lesotho and Tanzania grant unconditional birthright citizenship, and so do in the Asian-Pacific region Fiji, Pakistan, and Tuvalu.*


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## janaq2003 (Jan 13, 2018)

I had no idea about this.  I knew about the other anchor babies but this is ridiculous. Birth houses?? What in the world??


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## GeorginaSparks (Jan 13, 2018)

Menina Preta said:


> Lol.  It has already taken off...folks with means come and have their kids here.
> 
> Big in Houston among Nigerians. I have a cousin whose mom did that. She came to stay with our family up here till she gave birth. Lots of Caribbean and African people do this. I don't blame them. Pay back for centuries of imperialism...


yes they're called anchor babies.


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## yamilee21 (Jan 13, 2018)

They'll crack down on non-white people doing this, but they will happily continue to allow Eastern Europeans to do so. However, another few years of Trump and his ilk, and the U.S. passport will soon become useless anyway. But most people who do this simply want the convenience of a U.S. passport, as opposed to the annoyance of applying for student visas once the kids are college-aged. These are often people who are wealthy in their home countries, come here regularly for shopping trips, buy apartments in luxury developments in NYC, Miami, etc. - in other words, pretty much the same people who would qualify for "merit-based" immigration... except they don't want to actually live here, because their standard of living would plummet.

Ending automatic birth citizenship is a slippery slope, and will most certainly lead to a large class of stateless people - something previous U.S. administrations criticized in many other countries.


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## meka72 (Jan 13, 2018)

I'm not a fan of this practice but I'm not a fan of tinkering with the constitution on this particular issue, which is where birthright citizenship comes from.


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## hothair (Jan 13, 2018)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> As long as this doesn’t take off with Africans or Carribeans I’m sure the blind eye will be turned.




Eh Nigerians do this too. A lot.

A lot of the people that do this are well off. Not sure where the problem is aside from hospital bills fraud tbh


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## Farida (Jan 14, 2018)

This is huge in Irvine, CA. The women flock  the malls in droves. They give birth at Hoag hospital, rack up bills in the $50k range, cut and run.

Yet the American embassies keep handing out tourist visas to Chinese like candy...and F1s even though 90% of Chinese F1s never go back home.

Meanwhile my African relatives are denied tourist visas for weddings, birth of their American-born grandchildren etc. The US immigration system favors China heavily.


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## Lady-RuffDiamond (Jan 14, 2018)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> As long as this doesn’t take off with Africans or Carribeans I’m sure the blind eye will be turned.


No it won't.

The Home Office in the UK have decided that they will charge £570 for any non citizen who had a child in the UK.

I was initially appalled when I heard this news, but then realised they were trying to get at the birther tourists.

However, in doing so they have got at immigrants who came her to start a new life, contribute to their new country and have their kids there. It's a kick in the teeth.

I'll post the link tomorrow.


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## nyeredzi (Jan 14, 2018)

“They were funneled to several Orange County hospitals to deliver, but they didn't pay full price — approximately $25,000 — for medical services, officials said. Instead, they got reduced rates for the indigent, ranging from nothing to $4,000, the court papers say.”

Meanwhile, hospitals are complaining of lack of funds and throwing poor mentally unstable people out in the cold.


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## IslandMummy (Jan 14, 2018)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> As long as this doesn’t take off with Africans or Carribeans I’m sure the blind eye will be turned.


Girl stop, we do this all the time. We just stay with family or friends.


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## Farida (Jan 14, 2018)

This has been going on for so many years in Irvine and the feds do a few raids here and there but largely turn a blind eye. These women swarm South Coast plaza which has high-end designer stores like they are on pregnancy field trips. The worst part is they can afford those hospital bulls yet they skip out. 

There was a case a few years ago where the cops charged the ringleader with very petty offenses and her attorney pretty much helped her slip out of the feds’ hands. The monetary penalties were also pitiful considering how much money she had made from the racket.

Another recent one was uncovered after employees filed DOL complaints. They were expected to work endless hours in these maternity homes and then stiffed on the pay — FLSA overtime violations.

They blatantly and openly advertise on chineseinla which is their version of craigslist. 

When POC of color (hispanic mainly)  do this they are derided as filthy immigrants trying to have “anchor babies.” But the rich Chinese are just trying to make “better lives” and “ensure the future of the next generation.”


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## TCatt86 (Jan 14, 2018)

This has been going in forever. Folks always focused on poor Mexicans but middle class and rich Europeans and Asians have BEEN doing this.


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## TCatt86 (Jan 14, 2018)

Farida said:


> This is huge in Irvine, CA. The women flock  the malls in droves. They give birth at Hoag hospital, rack up bills in the $50k range, cut and run.
> 
> Yet the American embassies keep handing out tourist visas to Chinese like candy...and F1s even though 90% of Chinese F1s never go back home.
> 
> Meanwhile my African relatives are denied tourist visas for weddings, birth of their American-born grandchildren etc. The US immigration system favors China heavily.


My Brother in Law's mother couldn't get a visa to come to he and my sister's wedding. She's lived in Senegal. We even tried to get then Senator William Jefferson to interecede. No dice. It was horrible.


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## Farida (Jan 14, 2018)

TCatt86 said:


> My Brother in Law's mother couldn't get a visa to come to he and my sister's wedding. She's lived in Senegal. We even tried to get then Senator William Jefferson to interecede. No dice. It was horrible.


The embassy gave my friend’s dad a visa but not her mom. And they were married and lived together! She got married without her mom. It was awful!


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## biznesswmn (Jan 14, 2018)

Why cant we put ourselves together and organize something to further our childrens lives? This is reminding me of the dr. claude anderson thread @Adel10  Did anybody see the videos?

He predicted that more people would be allowed immigrate to the US as a strategy to replace black americans as the working class


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## Femmefatal1981 (Jan 14, 2018)

PJaye said:


> America needs to get rid of the "citizenship by birth" rule.  It should've been done long ago.


Agreed.


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## RoundEyedGirl504 (Jan 14, 2018)

I see I got a lot of responses. I’m aware that most immigrants do the anchor baby thing. Wasn’t aware that they have Whole businesses dedicated to housing them and their kids. Family and friends is a different thing.


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## RUBY (Jan 14, 2018)

Birth tourism is a legal practice. 
Done the right way people come, tell the truth at customs and immigration, and have their babies, pay all their medical and living bills in full and then go home. 

Where the Chinese messed up is that they got greedy by not paying the hospital bills and not paying taxes on their earnings. Notice how no arrests were made but sooner or later Uncle Sam will want their tax dollars and that's how all these agencies will get caught.


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## Femmefatal1981 (Jan 14, 2018)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> I see I got a lot of responses. I’m aware that most immigrants do the anchor baby thing. Wasn’t aware that they have Whole businesses dedicated to housing them and their kids. Family and friends is a different thing.


I guess there are enough family and and friends here to render this an ineffective business model for people from the islands/African nations.


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## Akemi (Jan 14, 2018)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> I see I got a lot of responses. I’m aware that most immigrants do the anchor baby thing. Wasn’t aware that they have Whole businesses dedicated to housing them and their kids. Family and friends is a different thing.


Yeah, that’s what I figured you were talking about. The websites, apartments, etc. Turning it into a big business.


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## IslandMummy (Jan 14, 2018)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> I see I got a lot of responses. I’m aware that most immigrants do the anchor baby thing. Wasn’t aware that they have Whole businesses dedicated to housing them and their kids. Family and friends is a different thing.


Our businesses (speaking for Jamaica) tend to run on the legal but shady end of the spectrum. So the middle and upper class who can or already have visas go about their business, come here, stay with someone, have baby and go home.

For those less lucky in getting their visas, that’s where Anansi comes in. You get your visa but at a much higher cost in hopes that it pays off in the (kid goes to a college, gets good job and filed for you). That can leave the person stuck once they get here.



bajandoc86 said:


> @RoundEyedGirl504  A LOT of Jamaicans do this. Not the whole paying an agency thousands of dollars bit. But they go to Canada and the US to have their children for the passport/citizenship. They usually have family or friends to stay with. I find a lot of middle to upper class Jamaicans do this and I was honestly was quite surprised when I discovered that when I moved here.
> 
> For me it seemed strange because even rich Bajans tend to have their kids at home, but we also aren’t traditionally big on emigration.


Should have read the thread to save my keystrokes all of this. A Bahamian girl I met in college was born here and came a year before school; she started to stay with family friends to qualify for instate tuition.


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## SweetNic_JA (Jan 14, 2018)

US citizens  are required to pay taxes anywhere they are in the world. Correct? For the women who come here to give birth and then raises the child overseas, does the US enforce tax collection from these Citizens who reach adulthood overseas (those who don't migrate back to the USA)?


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## LeftRightRepeat (Jan 14, 2018)

SweetNic_JA said:


> US citizens  are required to pay taxes anywhere they are in the world. Correct? For the women who come here to give birth and then raises the child overseas, does the US enforce tax collection from these Citizens who reach adulthood overseas (those who don't migrate back to the USA)?



nope.  I'm not sure how they would do that plus any money recouped would probably not be worth the cost of trying to enforce the tax collection.


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## Menina Preta (Jan 14, 2018)

GeorginaSparks said:


> yes they're called anchor babies.



The people I’m talking about are a bit different. Like with my cousin, he was born here but then his mom and dad took him back to the Caribbean where he grew up. His parents are middle class and have good jobs and did not want to immigrate here. Now he’s 18 and came up here for college. 

For many it’s so their kid can go to college here without any issues.


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## Menina Preta (Jan 14, 2018)

RUBY said:


> Birth tourism is a legal practice.
> Done the right way people come, tell the truth at customs and immigration, and have their babies, pay all their medical and living bills in full and then go home.
> 
> Where the Chinese messed up is that they got greedy by not paying the hospital bills and not paying taxes on their earnings. Notice how no arrests were made but sooner or later Uncle Sam will want their tax dollars and that's how all these agencies will get caught.



Yup. Plus if they don’t pay then the parents may not be granted visas again to visit the US. 

Honestly, with all the evil the US has done here and abroad, I am not mad about this practice. What does bother me is the way the news media framed the Russian baby mill versus the Chinese one.


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## PretteePlease (Jan 14, 2018)

Menina Preta said:


> Lol.  It has already taken off...folks with means come and have their kids here.
> 
> Big in Houston among Nigerians. I have a cousin whose mom did that. She came to stay with our family up here till she gave birth. Lots of Caribbean and African people do this. I don't blame them. Pay back for centuries of imperialism...



I have 5 empty rooms call all the cousins and tell them I got a spot for em


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## baha_locks (Jan 14, 2018)

Bahamians do this all the time. This is not something I agree with but hey, if America is okay with it then (Kanye shrug).

I kindaaaaa don't mean to nit pick but it's Caribbean people or West Indians, we are not Caribbeans.


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## FlowerHair (Jan 14, 2018)

intellectualuva said:


> Not surprised. I'd do it. Lol. If I wanted kids, I would have a baby in a few different western countries.....especially for the healthcare..like Canada or one of those 1 year off family leave countries. Lol.
> 
> We all know the white Russians is who they want. They already think folks from the Carribbean and countries in Africa do this.
> White folks lose their ish over the Asians though because that's who they consider the real competition for their kids. I read the comments on those articles.


Most European countries don’t have that system for citizenship. In Sweden, for instance, you have to have a Swedish parent to become Swedish automatically as a baby.


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## Saravana (Jan 14, 2018)

RUBY said:


> Birth tourism is a legal practice.
> Done the right way people come,* tell the truth at customs and immigration,* and have their babies, pay all their medical and living bills in full and then go home.
> 
> Where the Chinese messed up is that they got greedy by not paying the hospital bills and not paying taxes on their earnings. Notice how no arrests were made but sooner or later Uncle Sam will want their tax dollars and that's how all these agencies will get caught.



That is not correct.  First of all, no visas will be given if you say you are coming for the sole purpose of giving birth, unless you have a special kind of high rissk pregnancy and are going to be seen by a special US doctor who handle this type of high risk birth. I had a relative who was able to get a visa for this express purpose. 

Birth tourism is not a legal practice in theUS. If it were, the feds would not be raiding maternity hotels.


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## RUBY (Jan 15, 2018)

SweetNic_JA said:


> US citizens  are required to pay taxes anywhere they are in the world. Correct? For the women who come here to give birth and then raises the child overseas, does the US enforce tax collection from these Citizens who reach adulthood overseas (those who don't migrate back to the USA)?



Depends on if the US authorities can find you and access your money.  There was the famous case of the UK politician Boris Johnson who was born in the US. He recently renounced his US citizenship because the US wanted him to pay taxes to the US on his UK assets even though he already paid UK taxes.


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## RUBY (Jan 15, 2018)

PretteePlease said:


> I have 5 empty rooms call all the cousins and tell them I got a spot for em



Is that offer open to LHCF sisters?


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## Kanky (Jan 15, 2018)

They need to end the law that lets the anchor baby bring all of their family over and have universities prioritize citizens who actually live here. This is ridiculous.


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## RUBY (Jan 15, 2018)

Saravana said:


> That is not correct.  First of all, no visas will be given if you say you are coming for the sole purpose of giving birth, unless you have a special kind of high rissk pregnancy and are going to be seen by a special US doctor who handle this type of high risk birth. I had a relative who was able to get a visa for this express purpose.
> 
> Birth tourism is not a legal practice in theUS. If it were, the feds would not be raiding maternity hotels.



Birth tourism is legal. They raided the maternity hotels but they can't arrest anyone unless they broke the law by committing visa fraud, tax fraud, medical fraud, run out on bills etc. If immigration ask you, you are suppose to tell them the truth if you are pregnant and want to give birth in the US. That is not a crime. You are then supposed to show documentation that you have the means to pay for your medical treatment. People go to the US all the time for medical treatment which is allowed as long as you have the means to pay for it.

 A B2 visa should cover a person for most things including getting  medical treatment. 

From the U.S. VISAS U.S. Department of State • Bureau of Consular Affairs website 

Pleasure, Tourism, Medical Treatment - Visitor Visas (B-2) If the purpose of the planned travel is recreational in nature, including tourism, visiting friends or relatives, rest, or is related to medical treatment, activities of a fraternal, social, or service nature, or participation by amateurs who will receive no remuneration in musical, sports and similar events or contests, then a visitor visa (B-2) would be the appropriate type of visa for the travel. Persons planning to travel to the United States for a different purpose including students, temporary workers, crew members, or journalists, must apply for a different category of visa. You will find additional information on B-2 requirements on travel.state.gov


From the US Customs & Protection website

*Can I visit the U.S. while pregnant and what are the risks involved?*
Although there are no specific regulations prohibiting pregnant foreign nationals from entering the U.S., entry is allowed or denied at the discretion of the admitting U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Officer. If the CBP Officer determines that you are likely to become a ward of the government (meaning that the government must provide medical care because you do not have medical coverage), you can be denied entry.

When determining if you will be allowed to enter the U.S., CBP Officers take into consideration the date your child is due for delivery and the length of time you intend to stay in the U.S. In addition, they want evidence that you have sufficient medical insurance to cover any medical necessities while you are in the U.S. and that you intend to return home.

If it is determined that you do not have sufficient medical insurance to cover any unexpected or expected medical care while in the U.S., you can be denied entry. Additionally, if you are pregnant and entering the U.S. at a border port of entry via vehicle, be aware the radiation detection portals deployed at the ports do not emit any radiation, and do not present a hazard to you and your unborn child.


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## yamilee21 (Jan 15, 2018)

SweetNic_JA said:


> US citizens  are required to pay taxes anywhere they are in the world. Correct? For the women who come here to give birth and then raises the child overseas, does the US enforce tax collection from these Citizens who reach adulthood overseas (those who don't migrate back to the USA)?


Approximately the first $95,000 of foreign income are exempt from federal taxation, and of course, depending on the level of corruption, it can be fairly easy to hide income. So it has to be really worth their while for the IRS to go after citizens abroad. It does happen sometimes though.


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## Saravana (Jan 15, 2018)

RUBY said:


> Birth tourism is legal. They raided the maternity hotels but they can't arrest anyone unless they broke the law by committing visa fraud, tax fraud, medical fraud, run out on bills etc. If immigration ask you, you are suppose to tell them the truth if you are pregnant and want to give birth in the US. That is not a crime. You are then supposed to show documentation that you have the means to pay for your medical treatment. People go to the US all the time for medical treatment which is allowed as long as you have the means to pay for it.
> 
> A B2 visa should cover a person for most things including getting  medical treatment.
> 
> ...



I see what you are saying. It is not illegal for a pregnant woman to come as a tourist to the US, with the possibility of giving birth while she is there, if she has the means to pay for medical care should she happens to give birth.   For this reason, one can say that birth tourism is legal.

However, when granting a visa, if the woman says that she is coming to the US for the express purpose of giving birth and giving her child US nationality, she runs the risk of being denied visa. So these women don't state the express purpose of the visit. It's more like, I am pregnant, and if ooops  labor should start,  I can afford to pay for medical care.


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## Ganjababy (Jan 16, 2018)

Just about to post this. Most upper middle class and wealthy  Jamaicans I know do this. They even used to go to England until Thatcher changed the UK immigration laws in the 80's. I dated a Mahfood briefly and the idiot had the confederate flag hanging in his office talking about it was the flag of his country of birth. I was shocked.

There is even rumors about Seaga not being born in Jamaica but was born in the USA (or his mother giving birth to him on a plane to the US).




bajandoc86 said:


> @RoundEyedGirl504  A LOT of Jamaicans do this. Not the whole paying an agency thousands of dollars bit. But they go to Canada and the US to have their children for the passport/citizenship. They usually have family or friends to stay with. I find a lot of middle to upper class Jamaicans do this and I was honestly was quite surprised when I discovered that when I moved here.
> 
> For me it seemed strange because even rich Bajans tend to have their kids at home, but we also aren’t traditionally big on emigration.


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## Honey Bee (Jan 16, 2018)

Kanky said:


> They need to end the law that lets the anchor baby bring all of their family over and have universities prioritize citizens who actually live here. *This is ridiculous*.


Absolutely ridiculous. 

So, when they come back for college and get in-state tuition, we're the ones subsidizing it, right?


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## PretteePlease (Jan 16, 2018)

RUBY said:


> Is that offer open to LHCF sisters?



Yes but i suck as a nurse. Bring someone to care for you


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## Anacaona (Jan 16, 2018)

Menina Preta said:


> Yup. Plus if they don’t pay then the parents may not be granted visas again to visit the US.
> 
> *Honestly, with all the evil the US has done here and abroad, I am not mad about this practice.* What does bother me is the way the news media framed the Russian baby mill versus the Chinese one.



. Taxed to the gawds and still can't be mad about this


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## Menina Preta (Jan 16, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> Absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> So, when they come back for college and get in-state tuition, we're the ones subsidizing it, right?



No.  For in-state tuition you have to prove residency for a certain amount of years prior to applying for it.  So it's not that easy.


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## Honey Bee (Jan 16, 2018)

IslandMummy said:


> A Bahamian girl I met in college was born here and came a year before school she started to stay with family friends to qualify for instate tuition.





Menina Preta said:


> No.  For in-state tuition you have to prove residency for a certain amount of years prior to applying for it.  So it's not that easy.



According to IslandMummy and google, it only requires 1-3 yrs of residency depending on the state, ie for PA it's one yr, for SC it's three.


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## FelaShrine (Jan 17, 2018)

RoundEyedGirl504 said:


> I see I got a lot of responses. I’m aware that most immigrants do the anchor baby thing. *Wasn’t aware that they have Whole businesses dedicated to housing them and their kids. Family and friends is a different thing.*



yea I dont see the comparison.


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## luckiestdestiny (Jan 17, 2018)

Farida said:


> The embassy gave my friend’s dad a visa but not her mom. And they were married and lived together! She got married without her mom. It was awful!


was there a particular reason that they excluded the mom? Did she have a previous long (too long) stay in the U.S, or a past record, etc?  Just curious to why they chose to give to dad and not mom.  I feel bad for your friend who surely wanted her mom there on her wedding day.


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## Femmefatal1981 (Jan 17, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> According to IslandMummy and google, it only requires 1-3 yrs of residency depending on the state, ie for PA it's one yr, for SC it's three.


It’s 3 in SC and if I recall your parents have to be citizens of the state too unless you are an adult who works.

I know that we want to believe that black Americans would do better if we were so immigrant friendly. But it’s wishful thinking.

SC is extremely unfriendly to immigrants...and yet African Americans there are living in deplorable conditions.


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## Farida (Jan 18, 2018)

luckiestdestiny said:


> was there a particular reason that they excluded the mom? Did she have a previous long (too long) stay in the U.S, or a past record, etc?  Just curious to why they chose to give to dad and not mom.  I feel bad for your friend who surely wanted her mom there on her wedding day.


Nope. And they are not required to give you a specific reason. They just quote the section of law that states you have insufficient ties to prove you will go back home. Her mom had never been to the states before. They were probably interviewed by two different officers on different days. Some consular officers are &[email protected]$!!

For one wedding they gave my cousin a visa. No husband, no kids, no job and was not in school. While they denied her aunt’s visa. Aunt was travelling without her husband. She is principal at a school and had seven minor kids at home. Visa denied for “insufficient ties.”


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## Honey Bee (Jan 18, 2018)

Farida said:


> Nope. And they are not required to give you a specific reason. They just quote the section of law that states you have insufficient ties to prove you will go back home. Her mom had never been to the states before. They were probably interviewed by two different officers on different days. Some consular officers are &[email protected]$!!


If my own mother couldn't come to the country I wanted to get married in, I'd get married in another country.


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## Farida (Jan 18, 2018)

SweetNic_JA said:


> US citizens  are required to pay taxes anywhere they are in the world. Correct? For the women who come here to give birth and then raises the child overseas, does the US enforce tax collection from these Citizens who reach adulthood overseas (those who don't migrate back to the USA)?



They don't necessarily enforce it.

And even if they did, your first $100K or so overseas are exempt from taxation:

"The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE, using IRS Form 2555) allows you to exclude a certain amount of your EARNED income from US tax. For tax year 2016 (filing in 2017) this exclusion was $101,300. What this means is that if, for example, you earned $115,000 in 2014, you can subtract $101,300 from that leaving $13,700 as taxable by the US. But beware: this $13,700 is taxable at tax rates applying to $115,000 (the so-called "stacking rule")."


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## Farida (Jan 18, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> If my own mother couldn't come to the country I wanted to get married in, I'd get married in another country.



Many of the folks who run into this problem are visa overstays. Until they get their green cards they cannot leave the country because exiting the country after you overstay your visa triggers a 10-year bar from returning. So they choose to marry here and get their green cards so they can legally enter and exit the country without triggering the bar. That is why they choose to get married without their parents.

Even on 90-day fiancee they had to skype one woman's wedding because her parents were denied visas.

It happens ALL the time. It is a loophole used by people who violate visa laws. 

I am all for equal enforcement of the law. My beef is when it comes to the issuing of visas by the consulates and embassies overseas it is done on a disparate basis. Africans, Caribbean folks will get denied for visas being issued freely to Chinese folks who violate visa laws just as much if not more than others.

Try and get a student visa as an African and your chances for denial are high even with a college acceptance and proof of finances to pay because the embassy does not believe you will go home after you graduate. But 90% of Chinese students never go back home and they get their visas approved all the time.


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## Farida (Jan 18, 2018)

Saravana said:


> That is not correct.  First of all, no visas will be given if you say you are coming for the sole purpose of giving birth, unless you have a special kind of high rissk pregnancy and are going to be seen by a special US doctor who handle this type of high risk birth. I had a relative who was able to get a visa for this express purpose.
> 
> Birth tourism is not a legal practice in theUS. If it were, the feds would not be raiding maternity hotels.





Saravana said:


> That is not correct.  First of all, no visas will be given if you say you are coming for the sole purpose of giving birth, unless you have a special kind of high rissk pregnancy and are going to be seen by a special US doctor who handle this type of high risk birth. I had a relative who was able to get a visa for this express purpose.
> 
> Birth tourism is not a legal practice in theUS. If it were, the feds would not be raiding maternity hotels.



@RUBY

Technically birth tourism is legal. There is nothing in the law that says you cannot come here for the sole purpose of giving birth. Where people get into trouble with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), is fraud. It is not legal to obtain a visa by fraud and misrepresentation. And it is illegal to run a business where you advise women on how to lie to and evade immigration so they can give birth here. So the feds raid them not because birth tourism is illegal but rather because it is illegal to help people circumvent immigration laws through fraud and willful misrepresentation.

If you tell the consulate/embassy or CBP at the port of entry that you are coming here for the sole purpose of having a U.S. citizen child they are highly likely not to issue the visa/let you in. Moreso at the visa issuance rather than at the port of entry. That's because at the port they may be concerned about sending a pregnant woman back home when she could give birth soon. However, at the embassy they would likely (not always) deny your visa especially if you're on their unpublished list of non-preferred nations. That is because to get a tourist visa you have to prove you are NOT an intending immigrant. If you are coming to the U.S. to give birth to a U.S. citizen child the consular officer can legally make the inference that you are an intending immigrant and deny your visa on that basis. They are not denying you because you are going to give birth but because by going to give birth they deduce you intend on moving. One common exception is women who can establish that they have a medical condition and are coming to see a medical specialist in the U.S. for a complicated pregnancy/birth treatment they cannot receive back home.

That's why people push for the revocation of jus soli - the legal principle that you are a citizen by birth on U.S. territory. And until congress passes a law expressly making birth tourism illegal, it technically is not.


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## Honey Bee (Jan 18, 2018)

Farida said:


> *Many of the folks who run into this problem are visa overstays.* Until they get their green cards they cannot leave the country because exiting the country after you overstay your visa triggers a 10-year bar from returning. *So they choose to marry here and get their green cards so they can legally enter and exit the country *without triggering the bar. That is why they choose to get married without their parents.
> 
> Even on 90-day fiancee they had to skype one woman's wedding because her parents were denied visas.
> 
> ...


So, why yall making it sound like a terrible tragedy?  Running a hustle is sometimes uncomfortable.

I'm not especially sympathetic to the woes of foreign blacks trynna get student visas. (The apathy seems to go both ways. Have yall been following the Cornell mess? I didn't see a thread. ) And I don't think they going home either.  Further, China has a completely different relationship with the US than that between us and the various black countries. Buy some t-bonds and they might lighten up.


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## MissNina (Jan 18, 2018)

And this is why I'm moderate. I'm pretty much with Republicans on the majority of immigration issues. This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous.

Asians and Russians are so racist it's not even funny. But, of course, we need more racists in America. Why not


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## RUBY (Jan 18, 2018)

PretteePlease said:


> Yes but i suck as a nurse. Bring someone to care for you



Its a deal.  I'm gonna add you to my list of options.


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## quirkydimples (Jan 18, 2018)

GeorginaSparks said:


> yes they're called anchor babies.


I thought an anchor baby was a baby a man tricks you into having so you’re less likely to leave...


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## Shiks (Jan 18, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> *I'm not especially sympathetic to the woes of foreign blacks trynna get student visas*. (The apathy seems to go both ways. Have yall been following the Cornell mess? I didn't see a thread. ) And I don't think they going home either.  Further, China has a completely different relationship with the US than that between us and the various black countries. Buy some t-bonds and they might lighten up.


Why?


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## GeorginaSparks (Jan 18, 2018)

quirkydimples said:


> I thought an anchor baby was a baby a man tricks you into having so you’re less likely to leave...


nope. anchor baby has always been going to a country like the US or UK right a few months before you're due to secure that citizenship for your baby. Then they return to their country after the baby is born. They live with family members or family friends while in that country. White people and the new generations might be trying to call something else anchor baby but that's always been the meaning.


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## FemmeCreole (Jan 18, 2018)

Femmefatal1981 said:


> SO when are we gonna  raid the Russians doing this is Miami?


My thoughts exactly.


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## quirkydimples (Jan 18, 2018)

GeorginaSparks said:


> nope. anchor baby has always been going to a country like the US or UK right a few months before you're due to secure that citizenship for your baby. Then they return to their country after the baby is born. They live with family members or family friends while in that country. White people and the new generations might be trying to call something else anchor baby but that's always been the meaning.


Learn something new everyday. I’ll still use the yt definition too...because it’s fun.


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## FelaShrine (Jan 18, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> If my own mother couldn't come to the country I wanted to get married in, I'd get married in another country.



agreed


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## FelaShrine (Jan 18, 2018)

Shiks said:


> Why?



technically why should she be?

I don't understand defending the chinese however.

what happened in Cornell?


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## Honey Bee (Jan 19, 2018)

Shiks said:


> Why?





FelaShrine said:


> technically why should she be?
> 
> I don't understand defending the chinese however.
> 
> what happened in Cornell?


I'm not at all defending the Chinese. Idgaf. I'm just saying, if yall being treated different, that may be why. The Chinese are shareholders. 

re Cornell. A black student ended up bloody after an altercation with some white frat boys. They also used the n word. The BSU responded with a list of demands for the administration, including a request for more AA's specifically. This is what happened.



> *Black Students United Responds to Controversy Over Demand*
> 
> Black Students United issued a statement on Thursday “apologizing for the delay in response” after one of the 12 demands delivered to President Martha Pollack last month was met with increased controversy, both on and off campus.
> 
> ...



I can't find the original article I read with the WI/ Caribbean and African students' response, but basically, they checked the AA students and made them retract the 'demand'. Apparently, it's cool for foreign blacks to advocate for themselves to get more access to opportunities_ in our country_ but not us. *That's not the behavior of an ally.* So, no, I'm not at all sympathetic to their pain bc they/ yall don't seem especially sympathetic to ours.


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## Shiks (Jan 19, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> I can't find the original article I read with the WI/ Caribbean and African students' response, but basically, they checked the AA students and made them retract the 'demand'. Apparently, it's cool for foreign blacks to advocate for themselves to get more access to opportunities_ in our country_ but not us. *That's not the behavior of an ally.* So, no, I'm not at all sympathetic to their pain bc they/ yall don't seem especially sympathetic to ours.


Hmm. I don't want to get into a fight over this so I will keep it short. 
If we keep fighting each other for stuff, we forget the mission which to me is having us all thrive. I,personally think the betterment of ALL black people should be the mission but for some reason Cornell makes it seem like giving to one will take away from another.


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## Honey Bee (Jan 19, 2018)

Shiks said:


> Hmm. I don't want to get into a fight over this so I will keep it short.
> If we keep fighting each other for stuff, we forget the mission which to me is having us all thrive. I,personally think the betterment of ALL black people should be the mission but for some reason Cornell makes it seem like giving to one will take away from another.


I feel sorta like this is an on-topic segue bc, here on this board, we don't have no Chinese or Russians.  

The thing is, the American pie _for bp_ is not infinite. AA's, through much pain, blood, and travail, have been allocated a percentage of the pie. So, being that foreign blacks don't seem to be working extra hard to_ expand_ the pie, we all eating and dividing up AA pie. Which would be fine if my people weren't living in a 1st world nation in 3rd world conditions (as according to the UN). AA's can't afford to give away any pie. (Meanwhile, yall got a whole continent and mad islands worth of pie and ain't sharing...)


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## Shiks (Jan 19, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> I feel sorta like this is an on-topic segue bc, here on this board, we don't have no Chinese or Russians.
> 
> The thing is, the American pie _for bp_ is not infinite. AA's, through much pain, blood, and travail, have been allocated a percentage of the pie. So, being that foreign blacks don't seem to be working extra hard to_ expand_ the pie, we all eating and dividing up AA pie. Which would be fine if my people weren't living in a 1st world nation in 3rd world conditions (as according to the UN). AA's can't afford to give away any pie. (Meanwhile, yall got a whole continent and mad islands worth of pie and ain't sharing...)


Nobody is stopping you from coming over. Infact...
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/african-americans-moving-africa-180116092736345.html


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## Honey Bee (Jan 19, 2018)

Shiks said:


> Nobody is stopping you from coming over. Infact...
> http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/african-americans-moving-africa-180116092736345.html


"Coming over"? The topic of the thread is people finessing _US_ _citizenship_, which entitles you to a _magic blue passport_, _education and healthcare_ (such as it is). 

As I said, _pie_. What yall offering?


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## Meli-Melo (Jan 19, 2018)

My sister in law’s mother did this in Canada. I’ve even heard of Americans doing this in Canada for the free healthcare.


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## PuddingPop (Jan 19, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> "Coming over"? The topic of the thread is people finessing _US_ _citizenship_, which entitles you to a _magic blue passport_, _education and healthcare_ (such as it is).
> 
> As I said, _pie_. What yall offering?


Chile...............


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## PuddingPop (Jan 19, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> I feel sorta like this is an on-topic segue bc, here on this board, we don't have no Chinese or Russians.
> 
> The thing is, the American pie _for bp_ is not infinite. AA's, through much pain, blood, and travail, have been allocated a percentage of the pie. So, being that foreign blacks don't seem to be working extra hard to_ expand_ the pie, we all eating and dividing up AA pie. Which would be fine if my people weren't living in a 1st world nation in 3rd world conditions (as according to the UN). AA's can't afford to give away any pie. (Meanwhile, yall got a whole continent and mad islands worth of pie and ain't sharing...)



Very well said.


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## FelaShrine (Jan 19, 2018)

Honey Bee said:


> I'm not at all defending the Chinese. Idgaf. I'm just saying, if yall being treated different, that may be why. The Chinese are shareholders.
> 
> re Cornell. A black student ended up bloody after an altercation with some white frat boys. They also used the n word. The BSU responded with a list of demands for the administration, including a request for more AA's specifically. This is what happened.
> 
> ...



That's fine and i wont disagree, my thing is how did a situation between a black student vs white frats boys become a situation of american black vs foreign black? I see more focus on the latter in the article than what caused the issue in the first place.

It could have been its own topic, just seems to be hiding behind the whole white frat situation.


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## silverbuttons (Jan 19, 2018)

FelaShrine said:


> That's fine and i wont disagree, my thing is how did a situation between a black student vs white frats boys become a situation of american black vs foreign black? I see more focus on the latter in the article than what caused the issue in the first place.
> 
> It could have been its own topic, just seems to be hiding behind the whole white frat situation.



I think they used the incident as a way to gain more leverage with the administration ie, the demands. Political capital has an expiration date.


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## PretteePlease (Apr 9, 2019)

RUBY said:


> Its a deal.  I'm gonna add you to my list of options.




 So my airbnb is up and running now


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## JudithO (Apr 9, 2019)

Every country has different immigration laws that people exploit all the time... People keep comparing the US to other countries who have eliminated this law... but in many of those other countries, you can earn citizenship by schooling, working, and paying taxes for X number of years.  The US has no such law... hence why you have folks like me who have paid taxes for 17+ years but have zero benefits. Why does it bother you who gives birth here? Are they taking any benefits from you that affect your bottom line?


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## RUBY (Apr 9, 2019)

PretteePlease said:


> So my airbnb is up and running now



Great.

Now, I just need to work on the baby making process


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## nubiangoddess3 (Apr 11, 2019)

I’m planning my baby’s birth in Finland. Not trying to die in childbirth just because I’m black.


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