# Aa Workers Get Mexican Workers Deported In Order To Take Over Their Jobs



## Southernbella.

The history of race and labor in this country is interesting, particularly in urban cities. Managers/owners have always, always hired based on their ability to exploit workers going all the way back to Chinese male immigrants replacing white workers, then mexican immigrants, then AAs being used as strikebreakers when white workers demanded better treatment, and so on. 

I wonder how deportations will affect lowskilled AA workers in the future...


*At major Northwest Side bakery, labor issues pit blacks vs. Hispanics*







Cloverhill Bakery. | Kevin Tanaka / Sun-Times

Frank Main and Dan Mihalopoulos

A major bakery on the Northwest Side once known for making Little Debbie snack cakes was sold earlier this month after an immigration audit cost the company about a third of its workers.

*About 800 employees of the main Cloverhill Bakery on the Northwest Side and the company’s bakeries in Cicero and Romeoville lost their jobs when the audit found many were hired after presenting fake or stolen IDs.*

The owner of Little Debbie walked away, saying its orders no longer were getting filled on time by Cloverhill, and revenues fell for the bakery’s corporate owner, the Swiss food conglomerate Aryzta.

Finally, Aryzta had enough and sold the bakeries. Hostess Brands said it’s buying Cloverhill’s Chicago bakery from Aryzta.

Some might see what happened at Cloverhill as a sign of things to come under the Trump administration, with fears in corporate America and among immigrants of increased government crackdowns.

But the story of the 137,000-square-foot bakery in Galewood on the Northwest Side of Chicago appears to be more complicated than that. It precedes the Trump administration and involves tensions between African American and Hispanic workers, according to current and former employees, a former company consultant and a worker activist group.

*“They’re being pitted against each other, so they don’t get along,” says Dan Giloth, a community organizer on the West Side. “We believe this is a divide-and-conquer strategy*.

“*Unfortunately in Chicago, there is a widespread segregationist employment model to contract out most of your production work through temporary agencies and look the other way when they target employees by race or immigration status,” says Giloth, a former union organizer who is project manager for the group Coalition Against Segregation of Employees. “The goal is to create a very vulnerable workforce — and keep the wages low.”*

Tracy Stecko, a spokesman for Aryzta, declined to comment except to say, “Our company briefly owned that bakery operation but no longer does, so you may want to ask your questions to more appropriate parties, such as ICE or the union that is the legal ‎bargaining representative for most workers at that bakery.”

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement hasn’t responded to a request, filed months ago, for public records on the audit, and a spokeswoman for the agency wouldn’t comment.

Nor would representatives of the temporary-employment companies that provide workers to Cloverhill.

A Hostess spokeswoman didn’t respond to a request for comment.

*Aryzta bought Cloverhill in 2014. At the time, according to bakery employees and community organizers, most of the employees were natives of Mexico, most who’d been hired through Labor Network, a temporary-employment agency.*

But many of those workers weren’t temporary in the dictionary sense of the word. Most were so-called “permatemps” — temp workers who actually were permanently employed at Cloverhill. Most had been there for years, at least, and some for decades.

In 2015, under the Obama administration, ICE inspected the documentation of Labor Network’s employees at Cloverhill. *In May 2017, the Trump administration sent letters to about 800 employees, saying they weren’t authorized to work in the United States, records examined by the Chicago Sun-Times show.

Those Hispanic employees didn’t return to work, leaving the bakery desperate to fill their jobs*. So the company turned to another placement agency, Metro Staff Inc., and it provided Cloverhill with workers screened through the government’s “E-Verification” program. *Most of those new employees are African American.*

Ed French, owner of Elgin-based Metro Staff Inc., says his company became the main provider of workers for the bakery and that about 80 percent of them are black. According to French, workers at the bakery were paid slightly less before his company was hired two and a half years ago — with wages up by about 25 cents an hour, to just above minimum wage.


He says everyone hired through his company is permitted to work in the country and has passed a background check and drug test.

*According to a former consultant to the bakery, MSI paid the black workers $14 an hour, versus the $10 an hour the Mexican workers were making through Labor Network.*

The consultant, Felix Okwusa, says the bakery offered its remaining Hispanic workers a $1-an-hour premium to train the black replacement workers.

But Okwusa says Cloverhill soon ran into problems. In a memo to the company, Okwusa, who is African American , wrote that the black workers “displayed a higher turnover rate of over 40 percent and a lower efficiency rate than their Hispanic co-workers.”

Okwusa included his memo in a lawsuit he has filed against Aryzta in an effort to recover a bonus he says he was promised. Aryzta won’t comment.

“*One of the facts of the case — and a reality in America — is that the immigrants do the work for less than an American will,” says Okwusa’s lawyer, George Oparanozie. “It shows the dynamics of immigration in this country. *Many of these Hispanic workers have been here a long time, pay taxes in a lot of instances, and many of them could now be kicked out of the country.”

Attorneys who represent undocumented immigrants say they haven’t heard of any former Cloverhill employees being placed in detention for deportation to Mexico.

In the past, most of the workers at Cloverhill were Hispanic. Now, most are black.





Union steward Lynne Lane says black workers at Cloverhill reported Mexican workers to immigration officials. | Michelle Kanaar / Sun-Times

*Lynne Lane, a union steward at Cloverhill, says there are tensions as the two groups work side by side. Lane, who is black, says it was black workers at the bakery who called a government hotline to report the Mexican workers to immigration authorities.*

“*It was [African American] workers in the plant that saw, you know, like I said, that had been treated unfairly and treated like secondary-class citizens” by Hispanic workers, Lane says.* “So it was a whole lot of employees in the company. Well, they was given a number, as far as I know. They was given a number to call … to call Immigration.”

ICE would not say why the audit of the bakery’s workers began.

Lane started working at the Chicago bakery as a packer at the end of 2015. Now, she tracks waste in the bakery’s production of Danishes.

Black workers couldn’t communicate well with Spanish-speaking Mexican workers and supervisors, according to Lane, who blames the company for the resulting confusion.

“When I first started, and when they first put me in as a packer, I asked the question, ‘Do they speak English?’ ” she says. “And they said: ‘Everybody.’ But when I went to communicate with them, no one spoke English.”

*Lane says she also felt Mexican workers got better assignments and weren’t required to work as hard as black workers.*


Still, she says she also feels solidarity with Mexican employees — over pay and the long hours required of everyone.

“You’re thinking this agency is paying the same as the next agency, and you come to find out one’s paying $11, and . . . the other one’s paying $14, and here we is, and one is paying $10 something, and . . . we all doing the same job. That’s unfair.”

She says she works 12 hours a day, six days a week, and only recently was able to take Sundays off to go to church.

“I go to work at 2 a.m., get off at 2 p.m., go home at about 3 — I’m asleep at about 5 or 6,” says Lane. “I get up the next night to go back to work. The pay is OK. I’m not complaining about that. … It’s mainly the hours. You have to be on your feet 12 hours a day with steel-toed boots on.”

*Lane estimates that 90 percent of the workers in the Chicago bakery were Hispanic when she started working about two years ago and now about 90 percent of the workers are black.*





Cloverhill Bakery, 2035 N. Narragansett Ave. | Kevin Tanaka / Sun-Times

A Hispanic woman who formerly worked at the bakery says the ICE audit cost her husband his job. But she says she didn’t feel tension between Hispanic and black workers because, “In the time that I worked there, honestly, I didn’t see any black workers. They came later.”

She says she came to the United States in 2001 from Hidalgo, Mexico, and heard about the bakery from uncles in Chicago. She worked as a packer from 2001 until she got pregnant in 2008. Her husband worked there from 2000 until he was forced out because of the ICE audit.

The woman asked that her name not be used because she crossed the border without documentation and fears she might get in trouble with immigration officials.

In an interview in Spanish, she says the long hours at the bakery were tough, but says, “We had no other choices.”

Since her husband was fired, “The truth is that it has been very hard,” she says. “He’s had jobs where he was not paid or the check bounced. He’s unemployed now.”

The ICE audit was devastating, she says: “We knew we could not prove he had authorization to work. We felt disappointed. Seventeen years working there, and suddenly they tell you this?”





Dan Giloth. | Provided photo

*Giloth, the community organizer, says other Chicago-area factories also have used temp agencies to recruit Hispanic workers over black workers. He points to Ferrara Candy Co. in Forest Park, which was sued in 2013 by black job applicants who said they were passed up for jobs given to Latino applicants.*

Ferrara settled for $1.5 million, according to court records. Nearly 900 potential black employees were eligible to share in the fund, with the rest of the money to go to the West Side Health Authority, which Giloth is affiliated with, to provide job training for African Americans.

“*They were marketing aggressively to the African American community but shutting them out of jobs,” Giloth says of Ferrara Candy. “We met with them, and they said they would make this right.”*


Ald. Chris Taliaferro, whose 29th Ward includes the Cloverhill bakery on the Northwest Side, says he has heard complaints from workers there but has had little contact with bakery executives.

Under Aryzta, Taliaferro says, the owners didn’t communicate with his office, unlike other major employers in the ward he points to, including Radio Flyer and a Mars candy factory.

“Cloverhill is very shut off,” Taliaferro says, adding that he hopes to have better relations with Hostess. “With Radio Flyer and Mars, I could go in any time I want. But if you try to get in to Cloverhill, it’s like you need top-secret government clearance.”





Ald. Gilbert Villegas: “Everybody who wants to work should have a fair opportunity and not be taken advantage of.”. | Rich Hein / Sun-Times

Ald. Gilbert Villegas (36th) says he has met with immigrant workers at Cloverhill about the bakery, which is across the street from his ward boundary, and has been working with Communities United, an organization that helps immigrants.

*Villegas says blacks have been pitted against Hispanics in the day-labor world “for quite some time. African-Americans were discriminated against because day-labor agencies knew they could take advantage of the undocumented workers. *Everybody who wants to work should have a fair opportunity and not be taken advantage of.”

Villegas says companies that hire the day-labor agencies also shoulder some blame.

“Those companies that participate in that type of practice need to be held accountable, too,” he says. “They should be treating everybody the same way, regardless of their status. They’re pitting one ethnicity versus another. It’s just not right.”


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## Keen

Now Lynne.... Really? I feel like there's a lot she doesn't understand from a big picture perspective.


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## Kanky

Good for them. I called ICE on the lawn care company that maintains the common areas in my neighborhood. It took a few months but now the Hispanics are gone and black folks are doing the landscaping.


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## Southernbella.

Kanky said:


> Good for them. I called ICE on the lawn care company that maintains the common areas in my neighborhood. It took a few months but now the Hispanics are gone and black folks are doing the landscaping.



This doesn't surprise me 

It makes me think though...this is a self preservation move. Other groups do it but we generally don't. Instead we often have empathy for other POC to our own detriment.


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## Layluh

Kanky said:


> Good for them. I called ICE on the lawn care company that maintains the common areas in my neighborhood. It took a few months but now the Hispanics are gone and black folks are doing the landscaping.


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## guudhair

Southernbella. said:


> Lynne Lane says black workers at Cloverhill reported Mexican workers to immigration officials.



So a simple, “No comment” or “I don’t know who called” didn’t come to mind.  Smh


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## Kanky

guudhair said:


> So a simple, “No comment” or “I don’t know who called” didn’t come to mind.  Smh


We’ve had discussions here before about black people not knowing how to wield power. We should be quietly calling ICE and reclaiming industries, but that fool is making announcements in the paper about it.


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## qchelle

Kanky said:


> Good for them. I called ICE on the lawn care company that maintains the common areas in my neighborhood. It took a few months but now the Hispanics are gone and black folks are doing the landscaping.



 !!!!


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## Brwnbeauti

Not mad, I'd report them too. Wonder how the new employment opportunities will affect the black community? 
We are definitely the only ethnic group who has a we are the world, poc mentality- meanwhile others require solidarity or ostracism ensues. 

I know someone who is thinking of hiring a bunch of Mexicans. I hope they fine him extensively


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## Cheleigh

I have mixed feelings about this, honestly.


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## intellectualuva

Kanky said:


> Good for them. I called ICE on the lawn care company that maintains the common areas in my neighborhood. It took a few months but now the Hispanics are gone and black folks are doing the landscaping.





I want to say I'm shocked but your font is consistent. Sheesh. Lol.


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## intellectualuva

guudhair said:


> So a simple, “No comment” or “I don’t know who called” didn’t come to mind.  Smh



Yeah. She's out here snitching. Talk about a quiet solidarity. smh.


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## Southernbella.

Cheleigh said:


> I have mixed feelings about this, honestly.



I'm listening...


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## Southernbella.

Something else I find interesting that relates to race and labor is the idea of differential racialization. The way we think about different groups and their abilities is tied to this concept. Basically whites have stereotyped different groups in different ways according to their own needs.

There was a time when Irish workers were seen as lazy drunks. There was a time when Chinese men were seen as drug addled thugs. There was a time when black men were seen as dependable/hard workers. And so on. And these characterizations have changed throughout US history depending on what was expedient for white folks.

The stereotype of lazy black folks has endured though and it definitely affects the labor market and you can kinda see that in the op. And while I'm sure some Mexican workers are excellent, the truth is that most are probably average just like any other group but being able to work them like donkeys for several dollars less makes them appear to be more productive/better investments.


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## Lute

Wow. there is so much wrong with this story. I don't know where to begin.  It sucks that they lost their job. But the level of exploitation is sickening. 800 people is a lot of people.


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## Theresamonet

I read this story earlier this year, and I cackled. Not surprised something like this happened in Chicago. Our Black and Hispanic communities have never gotten along. And we don’t intermingle the way they seem to in other states like Cali. Plus, we bout that life here (minus that snitch Lynn).

This should bust the myth that Hispanics are doing the jobs that Black Americans don’t want to do. AAs want these jobs. They are just shut out.

I used to be a project manager for a construction/fabrication company here. Part of my job was to assign union laborers to specific jobs. I pick a foreman, but they pick their crew. Well, pretty much all of the foremans were Hispanic in that industry, and they wouldn’t bring on anyone that was not also Hispanic. My phone used to be blowing up with black union guys (and some ethnic whites) calling to see if they could get on a job. But Julio, Fernando, Cesar, etc. would not budge. I got one of my friends, an Albanian foreman to add a black guy, who would call me every week, to his team. But he was at a disadvantage on that crew, because it wasn’t his specialty. Black workers can’t get on jobs > black workers can’t become foreman > black workers can’t choose their own crews...

And this is not $2/hour strawberry picking I’m talking about. These are $40-60/hour jobs. Even more with overtime.


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## French Rouge

Let me save the ICE in my phone. Just in case I have to call for the culture.


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## MilkChocolateOne

There goes the the theory that AA's aren't willing to work the same jobs as illegal immigrants.   You know the same old story that we rather do nothing and beg for government hand outs or sell drugs instead of working.


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## Laela




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## RossBoss

Theresamonet said:


> I used to be a project manager for a construction/fabrication company here. Part of my job was to assign union laborers to specific jobs. I pick a foreman, but they pick their crew. *Well, pretty much all of the foreman’s were Hispanic in that industry, and they wouldn’t bring on anyone that was not also Hispanic. *My phone used to be blowing up with black union guys (and some ethnic whites) calling to see if they could get on a job.* But Julio, Fernando, Cesar, etc. would not budge*. I got one of my friends, a Albanian foreman, to add a black guy who would call me every week, to his team. But he was at a disadvantage on that crew, because it wasn’t his specialty. Black workers can’t got on jobs > black workers can’t become foreman > black workers can’t choose their own crews...
> 
> And this is not $2 dollar/hour strawberry picking I’m talking about. These are $40-60/hour jobs. Even more with overtime.



So they were not on any POC unity bs? ONLY Hispanics, right? Meanwhile listen to worthless pieces of doggie doo like Maxine Waters, the clowns at the CBC and the NAACP and Nobama and any speech they give is always about "black and brown", "blacks and immigrants", while Julio and Maria are doing the exact opposite.


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## Cheleigh

Southernbella. said:


> I'm listening...



In CA we don't have  many manufacturing jobs--most of the jobs requiring GED/high school diplomas are in construction, trucking, service industry, and agriculture. And since there is more intermingling of ethnic groups in California than in maybe other parts of the country, we actually would not have enough labor for these roles without Mexican immigrants.  I'm not ever going to call ICE on Mexican immigrants, and it makes me uncomfortable to think that anything good would come for black people in the long run by doing so.

The other issue this article doesn't really address is WHY Latino immigrants are seen as harder working--it's the same reason black were seen the same in previous generations--they work for less money with very little complaint about conditions because of their immigration status-essentially they have no voice. Anytime any group finds their voice, they're going to be seen as a problem. Black folks really found our voices during the civil rights movement--and no one can boot us out of the country, so we're seen as "a problem." 

And as an aside, we have moderately skilled positions here like bus driving that we cannot fill. For some reason, people wash out of these types of positions during training even though pay and benefits are good. We can only hire legal immigrants, so the workforce is primarily black. We also have some construction jobs that are going unfilled, although we are promoting exclusively black folks. At the moment in CA, most people who want to work  and CAN* work can find employment (albeit not at a living wage with only one job for some percentage of these position). 

*Mental health issues and felony records may prevent some people who WANT to work from working.


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## nubiangoddess3

Good.... I love reading stories of Black Americans waking up to the POC bull.






Now let's keep the momentum going and let nonblack POC know that if you aren't here for us, then we aren't here for you.



> *“They’re being pitted against each other, so they don’t get along,” says Dan Giloth, a community organizer on the West Side. “We believe this is a divide-and-conquer strategy*.



You cant divide what is already divided.


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## Laela

The irony of using a pic of white folks to make that point....  




nubiangoddess3 said:


> Good.... I love reading stories of Black Americans waking up to the POC bull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


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## Reinventing21

Speaking of stereotypes...Mexicans were always depicted as lazy and drunk. This new positive stereotype has been carefully crafted over the last decade or so.

I truly wonder how much longer whites can keep up this facade of superiority that keeps everyone else so divided, at odds, etc.


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## dyh080

Layluh said:


>


Love this!


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## dyh080

RossBoss said:


> So they were not on any POC unity bs? ONLY Hispanics, right? Meanwhile listen to worthless pieces of doggie doo like Maxine Waters, the clowns at the CBC and the NAACP and Nobama and any speech they give is always about "black and brown", "blacks and immigrants", while Julio and Maria are doing the exact opposite.


When they use those phrases I immediately tune out and/or turn off the radio or TV.


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## dyh080

Cheleigh said:


> In CA we don't have  many manufacturing jobs--most of the jobs requiring GED/high school diplomas are in construction, trucking, service industry, and agriculture. And since there is more intermingling of ethnic groups in California than in maybe other parts of the country, we actually would not have enough labor for these roles without Mexican immigrants.  I'm not ever going to call ICE on Mexican immigrants, and it makes me uncomfortable to think that anything good would come for black people in the long run by doing so.
> 
> The other issue this article doesn't really address is WHY Latino immigrants are seen as harder working--it's the same reason black were seen the same in previous generations--they work for less money with very little complaint about conditions because of their immigration status-essentially they have no voice. Anytime any group finds their voice, they're going to be seen as a problem. Black folks really found our voices during the civil rights movement--and no one can boot us out of the country, so we're seen as "a problem."
> 
> And as an aside, we have moderately skilled positions here like bus driving that we cannot fill. For some reason, people wash out of these types of positions during training even though pay and benefits are good. We can only hire legal immigrants, so the workforce is primarily black. We also have some construction jobs that are going unfilled, although we are promoting exclusively black folks. At the moment in CA, most people who want to work  and CAN* work can find employment (albeit not at a living wage with only one job for some percentage of these position).
> 
> *Mental health issues and felony records may prevent some people who WANT to work from working.



If Mexican immigrants are needed to fill the job openings require that they come in under the state legal migrant worker program.


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## JudithO

Kanky said:


> Good for them. I called ICE on the lawn care company that maintains the common areas in my neighborhood. It took a few months but now the Hispanics are gone and black folks are doing the landscaping.



So let's assume that we don't "care" what happens to someone after they are deported.... you automatically split a family as a result if the wife and children are American. You would risk potentially destroying a family (same effect as sending someone away to jail for at least 10 years) over the lawn?


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## dyh080

JudithO said:


> So let's assume that we don't "care" what happens to someone after they are deported.... you automatically split a family as a result if the wife and children are American. You would risk potentially destroying a family (same effect as sending someone away to jail for at least 10 years) over the lawn?



No, they destroyed the family themselves.


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## JudithO

dyh080 said:


> No, they destroyed the family themselves.



How?


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## HappilyLiberal

JudithO said:


> So let's assume that we don't "care" what happens to someone after they are deported.... you automatically split a family as a result if the wife and children are American. You would risk potentially destroying a family (same effect as sending someone away to jail for at least 10 years) over the lawn?



I don't care...  his wife and kids probably think as little of us as the rest of them!  They can always move to Mexico to join him! Seriously, look at all those deportees who said they encouraged their friends and relatives to vote for 45!  Well, these are the consequences of that choice!


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## JudithO

HappilyLiberal said:


> I don't care...  his wife and kids probably think as little of us as the rest of them!  They can always move to Mexico to join him! Seriously, look at all those deportees who said they encouraged their friends and relatives to vote for 45!  Well, these are the consequences of that choice!



The consequence of someone voting in a president you don’t agree with is breaking up their family? Or the the consequence of the wife and family “probably” thinking “little/nothing” of black people is breaking their family up? 

It’s alright if you don’t care if the family stays together ... I’m just trying to understand why you think they deserve that..


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## HappilyLiberal

JudithO said:


> The consequence of someone voting in a president you don’t agree with is breaking up their family? Or the the consequence of the wife and family “probably” thinking “little/nothing” of black people is breaking their family up?
> 
> It’s alright if you don’t care if the family stays together ... I’m just trying to understand why you think they deserve that..



Both!!!!  They elected the president who did this to them.  So, thems the breaks!


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## Ms. Tarabotti

HappilyLiberal said:


> I don't care...  his wife and kids probably think as little of us as the rest of them!  They can always move to Mexico to join him! Seriously, look at all those deportees who said they encouraged their friends and relatives to vote for 45!  Well, these are the consequences of that choice!





HappilyLiberal said:


> Both!!!!  They elected the president who did this to them.  So, thems the breaks!



He was only supposed to send the "bad" immigrants home.


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## sweetlaughter

HappilyLiberal said:


> Both!!!!  They elected the president who did this to them.  So, thems the breaks!



Exactly.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


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## RossBoss

JudithO said:


> So let's assume that we don't "care" what happens to someone after they are deported.... you automatically split a family as a result if the wife and children are American. You would risk potentially destroying a family (same effect as sending someone away to jail for at least 10 years) over the lawn?



Yes.


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## RossBoss

JudithO said:


> The consequence of someone voting in a president you don’t agree with is breaking up their family? Or the the consequence of the wife and family “probably” thinking “little/nothing” of black people is breaking their family up?
> 
> It’s alright if you don’t care if the family stays together ... *I’m just trying to understand why you think they deserve that*..



Because people who look like me come first.


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## Everything Zen

Ms. Tarabotti said:


> He was only supposed to send the "bad" immigrants home.









Anybody who believed that mess was begging to be deceived.


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## Kanky

JudithO said:


> So let's assume that we don't "care" what happens to someone after they are deported.... you automatically split a family as a result if the wife and children are American. You would risk potentially destroying a family (same effect as sending someone away to jail for at least 10 years) over the lawn?



They can take their American family members with them when they go.


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## larry3344

Lol, I love stories like this. Imagine this mindset spreading out thoughout the diaspora. 

At those saying it’s “wrong”. Has it ever occurred to you that these people have increasingly become arrogant and flaunt their arrogance about their preferential treatment. These people play both sides of the fence.

They get the “woe is me” I am minority/POC stimulus package and the “they are better than blacks” stimulus package. While cheesing up to you pretending to be your friend.

As for Lynne she should keep her mouth shut.


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## Sally.

Kanky said:


> Good for them. I called ICE on the lawn care company that maintains the common areas in my neighborhood. It took a few months but now the Hispanics are gone and black folks are doing the landscaping.


Thanks for posting because you gave me the idea to do the same thing. Ju


JudithO said:


> So let's assume that we don't "care" what happens to someone after they are deported.... you automatically split a family as a result if the wife and children are American. You would risk potentially destroying a family (same effect as sending someone away to jail for at least 10 years) over the lawn?


these Mexicans HATE us. They look down on us even tho we are citizens and they are illegal. They choose to believe stereotypes that black people are all lazy, stupid, and criminals. Yet they use resources intended for the benefits of Americans (food stamps, wic, etc). I lived in a high rise up until recently and because they were renovating the 40 floor building, floor by floor, I would run into a lot of Mexican workers on the elevator. When I stepped foot on the elevator, they would always act so afraid of me or rude to me. 

Thanks to whoever posted about calling ICE. I just reported them using the ice.gov/tips form. I actually don’t care about the Mexican workers. It’s my apartment complex that deserves the punishment. They made my life a living hell while I was there. They only let me out of my lease because I was threatening lawsuit and posting bad reviews all over the web about them. The guy thought I would be afraid of him because he’s a big real estate developer in the city but I was at a university with a top 10 law program and once they realized that, they stopped trying to punk me.  I pray that my tip to ice takes him and his wife and their 15 high rises out of business permanently.


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## MzRhonda

RossBoss said:


> So they were not on any POC unity bs? ONLY Hispanics, right? Meanwhile listen to worthless pieces of doggie doo like Maxine Waters, the clowns at the CBC and the NAACP and Nobama and any *speech they give is always about "black and brown", "blacks and immigrants"*, while Julio and Maria are doing the exact opposite.


Yeah I hate the our people and many of our so called "leaders" always say "black and brown" or "black and brown brothers and sisters" ...they don't care nothing about us be we certainly care about them at the demise of our own people....I don't hear Julio et al (politicians) on TV talking about "black and brown" people.


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## Evolving78

Southernbella. said:


> This doesn't surprise me
> 
> It makes me think though...this is a self preservation move. Other groups do it but we generally don't. Instead we often have empathy for other POC to our own detriment.


We have false empathy. We behave that way out of fear.


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## RossBoss

MzRhonda said:


> Yeah I hate the our people and many of our so called "leaders" always say "black and brown" or "black and brown brothers and sisters" ...they don't care nothing about us be we certainly care about them at the demise of our own people....I don't hear Julio et al (politicians) on TV talking about "black and brown" people.



I've given up on these worthless politicians and their Hollyweirdo minions years ago. Almost all are worthless and don't have the best interest of working class and middle class Black Americans.


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## Sosa

Good for them. The factory and construction jobs should start going back to black workers, especially. 

I understand that once the fruit- and veggies-picking jobs leave Mexican hands that I will have to start paying significantly more for produce. I selfishly hope that’s the last industry to go .... I’m ashamed .
I would also need to get over strongly disliking the optics of black people in the fields picking stuff too. 
Yeah, let that be the last industry we take back.


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## sharentu

sweetlaughter said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


i love this saying.  i will have to remember this.  very appropriate.


----------



## PretteePlease

#blacklove

I'm going to need homegirl to keep her dang mouth closed in the future

I'm a lover and a fighter. If you love something you will fight for it. Them
people love their livelihood and they took action. Not mad at all.


----------



## Kanky

I have started taking a peek in the kitchen of some of my favorite local restaurants and letting ICE know. Black folks are better cooks anyway.


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## intellectualuva

I would suggest folks move with stealth if they're going to do this. No shade, but even announcing it on this forum is not a good look. Black folks take major Ls because we announce every thing.


----------



## okange76

Wow !!!  I just hope no American citizen of Latin descent gets caught up. Plenty of Puerto Ricans have ended up in Mexico.  You better be 100 % sure before you pick up that phone.  An AA man in CA spent almost 2 years in ICE custody before he could prove his citizenship.  It's all fun and games until someone dies in ICE custody after your phone call. If you are ok with the possibility of that happening then, go ahead and make the call.


----------



## yamilee21

okange76 said:


> Wow !!!  I just hope no American citizen of Latin descent gets caught up. Plenty of Puerto Ricans have ended up in Mexico.  You better be 100 % sure before you pick up that phone.  An AA man in CA spent almost 2 years in ICE custody before he could prove his citizenship.  It's all fun and games until someone dies in ICE custody after your phone call. If you are ok with the possibility of that happening then, go ahead and make the call.


Your post is falling on deaf ears. The callous posters claiming to make these calls obviously don't care. Any United States citizens who might get caught up in this would be "collateral damage" - oops, oh well, too bad... their own fault for looking like immigrants.

There are, no doubt, some potential negative repercussions of continued Latin American immigration to the Umited States, the worst of which is likely the spread of Latin American styled racism. Assuming they do not claim to be Christians, African-Americans have the right to be indifferent to the plight of immigrants. But to actively seek to help ICE, while fully aware of the underlying white supremacist plan driving the policies? That would be the same as if Jewish people had been pointing out their Roma neighbours to the occupying Nazis. Keep it up though; divide and conquer has always worked out so well for black people everywhere.


----------



## Ms. Tarabotti

The Mexican/Hispanic deportations are in the news but hasn't ICE been picking up black people as well? Haven't they deported American citizens  to other countries by mistake (?) as well?

And I wouldn't trust any company that knowingly (and I think all companies who do this  know) hires illegals. If they are willing to  break the law in this instance,what other laws (included job safety, salary issues, etc) are the companies willing to bend on?


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## kimpaur

yamilee21 said:


> Your post is falling on deaf ears. The callous posters claiming to make these calls obviously don't care. Any United States citizens who might get caught up in this would be "collateral damage" - oops, oh well, too bad... their own fault for looking like immigrants.
> 
> There are, no doubt, some potential negative repercussions of continued Latin American immigration to the Umited States, the worst of which is likely the spread of Latin American styled racism. Assuming they do not claim to be Christians, African-Americans have the right to be indifferent to the plight of immigrants. But to actively seek to help ICE, while fully aware of the underlying white supremacist plan driving the policies? That would be the same as if Jewish people had been pointing out their Roma neighbours to the occupying Nazis. Keep it up though; divide and conquer has always worked out so well for black people everywhere.



Glad someone finally said it. Callous is the perfect description.


----------



## JudithO

kimpaur said:


> Glad someone finally said it. Callous is the perfect description.



I’ve said a prayer after every single one of these posts that I - as an African - never have to interview/work for/with someone like the individual posters. I’ll either be disqualified for the job before the interview starts or they’ll have my behind deported back to Nigeria regardless of the cost to my family before I get a chance to go home and get my legal papers. The worst part is walking into an interview, you feel more at ease if a black person is at the other end of the table regardless of country of origin. This thread is a reminder that is a terrible assumption to make.

I understand that they have the right to feel this way, and have 0 obligation to care about destroying families that potentially take jobs away from African Americans.

I just hope and pray that I never get to work with/for someone that thinks like that though.


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## Laela

.. 
this thread is disheartening..


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## yamilee21

.......


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## Laela

@yamilee21


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## HappilyLiberal

Ms. Tarabotti said:


> The Mexican/Hispanic deportations are in the news but *hasn't ICE been picking up black people as well?* Haven't they deported American citizens  to other countries by mistake (?) as well?
> 
> And I wouldn't trust any company that knowingly (and I think all companies who do this  know) hires illegals. If they are willing to  break the law in this instance,what other laws (included job safety, salary issues, etc) are the companies willing to bend on?




OK...  now we get to the real reason for the sympathy...  ICE has been picking up Caribbeans and Africans who are illegal.  Now all of a sudden you folks who big up your cultures want to claim they are black.  I asked this in another thread...  if you were hiring and had a choice between a black American and an immigrant from your black culture, who would you hire?  I couldn't seem to get a response.  But we all know you would put your cultural attachments ahead of your racial attachments.  This is exactly why I don't care if they send them back too!


----------



## okange76

My issue also is people are only going after the bottom of the barrel illegals.   Why aren't you advocating for your companies to go after the illegal white folks in corporate jobs?  I've seen plenty of Russian, Irish and Italian Manager and VP level people who don't have papers. Nobody bothers them. Those are the jobs you should be fighting for and not dishwasher type stuff. Many have been on the job 10-15 plus years and HR never asks them to resubmit paperwork for e-verify.  They are automatically assumed to be legal. 

Call ICE on your HR and have them make your company re do e-verify for everyone. You'd be surprised by the number of people who don't show up to work the next  day. Could be your boss for all you know.


----------



## HappilyLiberal

okange76 said:


> My issue also is people are only going after the bottom of the barrel illegals.   Why aren't you advocating for your companies to go after the illegal white folks in corporate jobs?  I've seen plenty of Russian, Irish and Italian Manager and VP level people who don't have papers. Nobody bothers them. Those are the jobs you should be fighting for and not dishwasher type stuff. Many have been on the job 10-15 plus years and HR never asks them to resubmit paperwork for e-verify.  They are automatically assumed to be legal.
> 
> Call ICE on your HR and have them make your company re do e-verify for everyone. You'd be surprised by the number of people who don't show up to work the next  day. Could be your boss for all you know.



Actually, given the nature of my work, I'm 100% certain everyone I work with is legal.  However, I have no problem calling ICE on HR in private industry...  let's get them all out.  And, given the disparities in educational opportunities, many of those low-level positions are the difference between a job and extreme poverty and homelessness for people who look like me.  So, we can take those too!


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## Gin&Tonic

Our folks are waking up and making moves to benefit only us?! Wont he do it?! I can rest easy tonight.

Keep up the good work family! Love you!


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## Laela

Don't know what thread you're referring to..but @ bolded, my answer would be ...Errrr, the person most qualified to do the job??     But that's just me.

We already have a Diaspora, so there really is no need to be splitting hairs. People don't choose where they were born but they can choose where they want to live. It's an inalienable right, actually. Nothing wrong with being proud of being from the Caribbean or Africa.  The _African-American _culture is distinctively separate from mainstream American culture,too. Many white Americans reject the Black Lives Matter movement (which they certainly misunderstand and aren't willing to try to understand) and other issues we collectively see as important - blacks from the Caribbean, Africa and elsewhere. So what you're intimating here is either here nor there, because we're all in the same _slave _boat. The African cultures are intertwined and deeply rooted into the African-American culture.

..and btw, I think you DO care 



HappilyLiberal said:


> OK...  now we get to the real reason for the sympathy...  ICE has been picking up Caribbeans and Africans who are illegal.  Now all of a sudden you folks who big up your cultures want to claim they are black.  I asked this in another thread..*.*  if you were hiring and had a choice between a black American and an immigrant from your black culture, who would you hire?  I couldn't seem to get a response.  But we all know you would put your cultural attachments ahead of your racial attachments.  This is exactly why I don't care if they send them back too!


----------



## JudithO

HappilyLiberal said:


> OK...  *now we get to the real reason for the sympathy... * ICE has been picking up Caribbeans and Africans who are illegal.  Now all of a sudden you folks who big up your cultures want to claim they are black.  I asked this in another thread...  if you were hiring and had a choice between a black American and an immigrant from you black culture, who would you hire?  I couldn't seem to get a response.  This is exactly why I don't care if they send them back too!



The real reason for the sympathy is that choosing to destroy a family over non life threatening issues is cold blooded.  This is the exact same atrocity that white people commit when they call the cops on black folks for presumably committing offenses without a care for the consequence to their family. 

Who would I hire? An African American and a Nigerian with the exact same skill set? Likely the Nigerian ... We all do this - we are more emotionally connected to people who are more similar to us. However, I’d hire an African American with better skills than a Nigerian in a heart beat. If I feel like the African American has more limited employment opportunities compared to the Nigerian, I might hire them instead. Like Hispanics, if I were a company owner, I would likely hire mostly black people regardless of culture because I’m deeply interested in in improving the economic situation of black people as a whole. 

Someone really has to try to hurt me and my family .... and I’d still think long and hard about doing something that would put someone in jail for 10+ years ... I’m not AA, but I know enough about how much this destroys families ... same consequence as calling ICE on someone... Are there other options? Call the police on them so at least they can get bailed out? Work with your HOA to change the landscaping company? Are there really no other options? 

Again - you have every right to feel the way you do. You are not mandated to feel empathy or treat anyone any kind of way so there is no need to justify it.


----------



## nyeredzi

I'm not unsympathetic to immigrants. Like most of humanity, most of them are without power and are struggling to survive and do their best for their families. I don't even blame them for working illegally, crossing illegally, any of that, because I'm sure if I were in a desperate enough situation I'd do the same. I don't blame any poor people in desperate situations doing what they can to better themselves. And I don't believe they all hate us or whatever one has to believe to justify feeling nothing for someone else.

However, while we work on getting these corporations to act right (I'm socialist at heart), there are not enough resources here for everyone. Many say it's a poverty mindset, and maybe so, but just saying that doesn't make it untrue. We have to fight for what we can too. We also have families to support, and are already in a position in this society where we don't have much. We can't give up what little we do have for kindness' sake, and let our own families struggle.


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## itsallaboutattitude

I fall into no man’s land on this board my family falls into the purchased by America so by default I am Black and American, but my home base is in the Caribbean. 

After 9/11, I had black aka African American co-workers (since the consensus on this board is 100 years doesn’t qualify me and mine to ever claim AA) and white/Caucasian co-workers tell me to my face I need to go back to my country. 

Have the idiot in the White House now talking about no birth right citizenship for American territories. 

Funny thing is West Indians point to us and say American and Americans point to us and say West Indian/ Islander/ Caribbean.


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## JudithO

nyeredzi said:


> I'm not unsympathetic to immigrants. Like most of humanity, most of them are without power and are struggling to survive and do their best for their families. I don't even blame them for working illegally, crossing illegally, any of that, because I'm sure if I were in a desperate enough situation I'd do the same. I don't blame any poor people in desperate situations doing what they can to better themselves. And I don't believe they all hate us or whatever one has to believe to justify feeling nothing for someone else.
> 
> *However, while we work on getting these corporations to act right (I'm socialist at heart), there are not enough resources here for everyone. Many say it's a poverty mindset, and maybe so, but just saying that doesn't make it untrue. We have to fight for what we can too. We also have families to support, and are already in a position in this society where we don't have much. We can't give up what little we do have for kindness' sake, and let our own families struggle.*



I agree with you 100% ... BUT calling ICE is an extreme way to fix the problem because the consequences are devastating to families. Immigrants (legal and illegal) are not the primary reason why black folks are not economically powerful. I actually don't support companies hiring illegal immigrants and I think there should be consequences for it. Illegal immigrants will figure out a way to make money because they are desperate enough.... if there is no way to make money, they'll stop coming to the US. There are changes that can and should be made on a company, and government policy level.... but don't punish the immigrants who are not the cause of the problem.


----------



## nyeredzi

JudithO said:


> I agree with you 100% ... BUT calling ICE is an extreme way to fix the problem because the consequences are devastating to families. Immigrants (legal and illegal) are not the primary reason why black folks are not economically powerful. I actually don't support companies hiring illegal immigrants and I think there should be consequences for it. Illegal immigrants will figure out a way to make money because they are desperate enough.... if there is no way to make money, they'll stop coming to the US. There are changes that can and should be made on a company, and government policy level.... but don't punish the immigrants who are not the cause of the problem.


Okay, if calling ICE is not the way to do it, and I admit it’s a tough move, what do you suggest? We need significant political changes, but those don’t happen overnight (or even over years, it seems). Imagine you are in the situation these black workers are in, what else can they do?


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## HappilyLiberal

itsallaboutattitude said:


> I fall into no man’s land on this board my family falls into the purchased by America so by default I am Black and American, but my home base is in the Caribbean.
> 
> After 9/11, I had black aka African American co-workers *(since the consensus on this board is 100 years doesn’t qualify me and mine to ever claim AA) *and white/Caucasian co-workers tell me to my face I need to go back to my country.
> 
> Have the idiot in the White House now talking about no birth right citizenship for American territories.
> 
> Funny thing is West Indians point to us and say American and Americans point to us and say West Indian/ Islander/ Caribbean.



Um, no...  your ancestors were brought here on the slave ships, you are definitely African American!  There are no indigenous black people on these shores.  My issue is with these Johnny come within the last 25-30-40 years (which is when those Hispanics starting coming in larger numbers) who are looking down on us!


----------



## yamilee21

nyeredzi said:


> ... there are not enough resources here for everyone. ...


This is absolute nonsense. The United States easily has the resources for everyone currently here, and likely another few dozen millions, to live decently. The problem is that the United States has reverted to a Gilded Age mentality, in which a very few robber barons are hoarding the overwhelming majority of resources, while the mass population is tricked into fighting each other over crumbs. Anti-immigrant sentiment and legislation (along with tightening of Jim Crow laws) accompanied the previous Gilded Age, and what are seeing today is a repeat of history with different groups as the current scapegoats. Had the general population not gone along with the destruction of unions and labor protection laws - in other words, had middle and working class white people put voting for their economic interests above upholding their racist beliefs - the overall standard of living here would be more on par with Canada and western Europe instead of heading ever-closer to third-world levels.


----------



## HappilyLiberal

yamilee21 said:


> This is absolute nonsense. The United States easily has the resources for everyone currently here, and likely another few dozen millions, to live decently. The problem is that the United States has reverted to a Gilded Age mentality, in which a very few robber barons are hoarding the overwhelming majority of resources, while the mass population is tricked into fighting each other over crumbs. Anti-immigrant sentiment and legislation (along with tightening of Jim Crow laws) accompanied the previous Gilded Age, and what are seeing today is a repeat of history with different groups as the current scapegoats. Had the general population not gone along with the destruction of unions and labor protection laws - in other words, had middle and working class white people put voting for their economic interests above upholding their racist beliefs - the overall standard of living here would be more on par with Canada and western Europe instead of heading ever-closer to third-world levels.



This is absolutely true...  but unless and until poor/middle-class white folks start seeing their interests as aligned with ours, we have to work within the system as it is currently set-up; which means Conchita, Jose, Azeez, and Olabisi are going to have to go somewhere else for a while!


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## nyeredzi

yamilee21 said:


> This is absolute nonsense. The United States easily has the resources for everyone currently here, and likely another few dozen millions, to live decently. The problem is that the United States has reverted to a Gilded Age mentality, in which a very few robber barons are hoarding the overwhelming majority of resources, while the mass population is tricked into fighting each other over crumbs. Anti-immigrant sentiment and legislation (along with tightening of Jim Crow laws) accompanied the previous Gilded Age, and what are seeing today is a repeat of history with different groups as the current scapegoats. Had the general population not gone along with the destruction of unions and labor protection laws - in other words, had middle and working class white people put voting for their economic interests above upholding their racist beliefs - the overall standard of living here would be more on par with Canada and western Europe instead of heading ever-closer to third-world levels.


you deliberately cut off the first clause of the sentence you quoted, and ignored what i said in the first sentence of my second paragraph,  to build a straw man argument.


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## Dellas

This is what whites think. The jobs will return if I get rid of the competition. The factory closed. If the boss likes a certain amount of profit then getting rid of the competition doesn't do anything. They will turn to robots, move the business, or shut down. 

The problem is not black or brown it is greed and lack of enforcement of the laws.


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## Dellas

I understand blacks frustration.
The problem is that other immigrants stick together and work together. Due to slavery that type of coordination is long gone. Read the article the immigrant advantage. All groups will be on top of AA without reparations and declaring us as a special status like the military.


----------



## yamilee21

nyeredzi said:


> you deliberately cut off the first clause of the sentence you quoted, and ignored what i said in the first sentence of my second paragraph,  to build a straw man argument.


The notion of limited resources is what is at the heart of the original article, as well as the anti-immigrant statements in this and in every other thread that mentions immigration. Although you are aware of the many other factors that have led to the current situation, far too many people - who are now scapegoating immigrants - unfortunately are not. I'm not arguing with you; I just wish people would think more about the larger reality instead of playing into white supremacists' hands.


----------



## HappilyLiberal

yamilee21 said:


> The notion of limited resources is what is at the heart of the original article, as well as the anti-immigrant statements in this and in every other thread that mentions immigration. Although you are aware of the many other factors that have led to the current situation, far too many people - who are now scapegoating immigrants - unfortunately are not. I'm not arguing with you; I just wish people would think more about the larger reality instead of playing into white supremacists' hands.




The problem is that unless and until we gain the power to affect change, we have to play the hand that's dealt..  and the hand that's dealt does not leave us with much room to embrace competitors who really have no desire to align themselves with us!


----------



## RossBoss

Adel10 said:


> I understand blacks frustration.
> The problem is that other immigrants stick together and work together. Due to slavery that type of coordination is long gone. Read the article the immigrant advantage. All groups will be on top of AA without reparations and declaring us as a special status like the military.



Reparations will just go back into the hands of whites and other nonblacks. The problem with the Black American community is that we stopped sticking together the way we did when integration forced us to. No amount of reparations can fix our problems if we don't stick together like we did when we were forced to.. And by stick together, I mean make the dollars circulate many times more within our communities than it does now.


----------



## dyh080

Adel10 said:


> I understand blacks frustration.
> The problem is that other immigrants stick together and work together. Due to slavery that type of coordination is long gone. Read the article the immigrant advantage. All groups will be on top of AA without reparations and declaring us as a special status like the military.


There is a reason other immigrants can stick together....they have a country in common.  Blacks have, at most , a continent in common.  BIG difference.

What made me notice this is my close friend who is Korean. ( By the way I have been in many Korean functions where they have the same "we need to stick together cry" and they DID NOT mean with other Asians).

Let me add : All Asians do not stick together just like all Europeans do not.  Ever heard of sections of cities known as "little Italy" "China town" or "little Cuba"......all countries?

But of course there may be some exceptions.

Show me where Japanese stick together with Indians.


----------



## naturalgyrl5199

Evolving78 said:


> We have false empathy. *We behave that way out of fear*.


THIS!

Its why we don't always protest like we should. Them white folks KNEW WHAT they were doing.
We have to teach the history lessons of the WHY when passing the info to the next generation. Its still deep in our psyche.


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## naturalgyrl5199

RossBoss said:


> So they were not on any POC unity bs? ONLY Hispanics, right? *Meanwhile listen to worthless pieces of doggie doo like Maxine Waters, the clowns at the CBC and the NAACP and Nobama and any speech *they give is always about "black and brown", "blacks and immigrants", while Julio and Maria are doing the exact opposite.


WELL DANG!
But no for real I think blacks in positions of power are scared to really make statements inclusive of blacks Only. Maxine Waters has already had her life threatened by a public official and nobody said a THING. Cause no one wants to really call a spade a spade for fear of a race war. No one wants to be a Pariah or the next MLK Jr. Even though the urgency is just as serious as the CRM.....This man openly hunted a black girl and no one wants to call it a hate crime. He don't even care. I think he was trying to earn his red shoelaces. Even leaders are scared. They want to always put on an inclusive front.


----------



## Laela

!




HappilyLiberal said:


> Um, no...  your ancestors were brought here on the slave ships, you are definitely African American!  There are no indigenous black people on these shores.  My issue is with these Johnny come within the last 25-30-40 years (which is when those Hispanics starting coming in larger numbers) who are looking down on us!


----------



## naturalgyrl5199

yamilee21 said:


> This is absolute nonsense. The United States easily has the resources for everyone currently here, and likely another few dozen millions, to live decently. The problem is that the United States has reverted to a Gilded Age mentality, in which a very few robber barons are hoarding the overwhelming majority of resources, while the mass population is tricked into fighting each other over crumbs. Anti-immigrant sentiment and legislation (along with tightening of Jim Crow laws) accompanied the previous Gilded Age, and what are seeing today is a repeat of history with different groups as the current scapegoats. Had the general population not gone along with the destruction of unions and labor protection laws - in other words, *had middle and working class white people put voting for their economic interests above upholding their racist beliefs* - the overall standard of living here would be more on par with Canada and western Europe instead of heading ever-closer to third-world levels.


Word.


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## naturalgyrl5199

Sosa said:


> Good for them. The factory and construction jobs should start going back to black workers, especially.
> 
> I understand that once the fruit- and veggies-picking jobs leave Mexican hands that I will have to start paying significantly more for produce. I selfishly hope that’s the last industry to go .... I’m ashamed .
> I would also need to get over strongly disliking the optics of black people in the fields picking stuff too.
> Yeah, let that be the last industry we take back.



To be fair...these are the legit jobs Mexicans take that blacks tend to not take. Talk about a generational TRIGGER. So when that Mexican President said what he said....I was like "where's the lie?"
Some blacks got aggy (prolly the ones fighting in Chicago for factory jobs), but at the time I was thinking...we can't have it both ways....w/ respect to fruit picking....


----------



## dyh080

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> To be fair...these are the legit jobs Mexicans take that blacks tend to not take. Talk about a generational TRIGGER. So when that Mexican President said what he said....I was like "where's the lie?"
> Some blacks got aggy (prolly the ones fighting in Chicago for factory jobs), but at the time I was thinking...we can't have it both ways....w/ respect to fruit picking....




Before the large influx of illegal immigrants there were legal migrant workers and yes, some Black people, who worked in fields.  I'm going back a few decades.  I remember some Black folks did it temporarily for example, this time of year for school clothes for their children.  Some, of course, lived on the farm and the father worked there full time.

Otherwise, the other jobs were performed by teenagers or college students, such as dishwashing, pizza delivery, etc.

But, in the end, who is willing to work full time, under the table, no benefits at low pay other than an illegal immigrant?  That's called exploitation.


----------



## naturalgyrl5199

dyh080 said:


> Before the large influx of illegal immigrants there were legal migrant workers and yes, some Black people, who worked in fields.  I'm going back a few decades.  *I remember some Black folks did it temporarily for example, this time of year for school clothes for their children*.  Some, of course, lived on the farm and the father worked there full time.
> 
> Otherwise, the other jobs were performed by teenagers or college students, such as dishwashing, pizza delivery, etc.
> 
> But, in the end, who is willing to work full time, under the table, no benefits at low pay other than an illegal immigrant?  That's called exploitation.


My husband was born and raised in the Florida Orange groves. He gave me the rundown. His dad said it was always blacks before the 60's. My coach in South Florida where I was raised said black kids attended school 1/2 day and picked cotton or fruit or whatever with their parents the rest of the day in the 50's. He said now (mid 90's) blacks wouldn't dare.

The growers don't want the black folk anyway cause after the CRM they would not let themselves be exploited.


----------



## RossBoss

naturalgyrl5199 said:


> WELL DANG!
> But no for real I think blacks in positions of power are* scared to really make statements inclusive of blacks Only.* Maxine Waters has already had her life threatened by a public official and nobody said a THING. Cause no one wants to really call a spade a spade for fear of a race war. No one wants to be a Pariah or the next MLK Jr. Even though the urgency is just as serious as the CRM.....This man openly hunted a black girl and no one wants to call it a hate crime. He don't even care. I think he was trying to earn his red shoelaces. Even leaders are scared. They want to always put on an inclusive front.



@ the bolded, then they're useless. If politicians are so scared then they are of no use. Other nonwhite politicians have no problem centering the political discussion on their group so if Black politicians refuse to do the same then they are worthless.


----------



## RossBoss

dyh080 said:


> Before the large influx of illegal immigrants there were legal migrant workers and yes, some Black people, who worked in fields.  I'm going back a few decades.  I remember some Black folks did it temporarily for example, this time of year for school clothes for their children.  Some, of course, lived on the farm and the father worked there full time.
> 
> Otherwise, the other jobs were performed by teenagers or college students, such as dishwashing, pizza delivery, etc.
> 
> But, in the end, who is willing to work full time, under the table, no benefits at low pay other than an illegal immigrant?  That's called exploitation.



Same thing my dad told me. These new immigrants just show up and think that the work did itself before we had an open border, but nah, a lot of Blacks and poor whites were doing it.


----------



## HappilyLiberal

RossBoss said:


> @ the bolded, then they're useless. *If politicians are so scared then they are of no use. Other nonwhite politicians have no problem centering the political discussion on their group so if Black politicians refuse to do the same then they are worthless*.


 
I just had to reply to this once again!


----------



## Dellas

dyh080 said:


> There is a reason other immigrants can stick together....they have a country in common.  Blacks have, at most , a continent in common.  BIG difference.
> 
> What made me notice this is my close friend who is Korean. ( By the way I have been in many Korean functions where they have the same "we need to stick together cry" and they DID NOT mean with other Asians).
> 
> Let me add : All Asians do not stick together just like all Europeans do not.  Ever heard of sections of cities known as "little Italy" "China town" or "little Cuba"......all countries?
> 
> But of course there may be some exceptions.
> 
> Show me where Japanese stick together with Indians.


I agree. There are many reasons blacks don't stick together. Good point.


----------



## Dellas

RossBoss said:


> Reparations will just go back into the hands of whites and other nonblacks. The problem with the Black American community is that we stopped sticking together the way we did when integration forced us to. No amount of reparations can fix our problems if we don't stick together like we did when we were forced to.. And by stick together, I mean make the dollars circulate many times more within our communities than it does now.


True.


----------

