# Why is there so much hate for Jesus Christ and christianity on a whole?



## Qualitee (Mar 7, 2011)

Its like every where you go (even on LHCF) I feel there is hate towards Jesus. They never flat out say it but their views towards christiany are very tellling. It seems like every other religion is welcomed with open arms for discussion but once Jesus and christianity comes into the mix people feel to need to say how much they dislike chirstians, the bible etc. Yes we do have a lot of hypocrisy in christianity but that comes with everything in life. Its like every where you go no one wants to even hear the name God


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## ~Sparklingflame~ (Mar 7, 2011)

I think its because a lot of people do bad things (sometimes in the name of the Lord too) but profess such a deep love for God and their fellow man. After a while people begin to develop a disdain for God and the church in general.

IMO.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 7, 2011)

_*JOHN 15:18-20 Jesus said:* If the world hates you, remember that the world hated me first. If you belonged to the world, then the world would love you like it loves its own people. But I have chosen you out of the world. So you don't belong to the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the lesson I told you: A servant is not greater than his master. If people did wrong to me, then they will do wrong to you too. And if people obeyed my teaching, then they will obey yours too._


"You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. *Matthew 10:22*


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## Meritamen (Mar 7, 2011)

For me it has because interacting with Christians has mostly been unpleasant compared to that of other religions. I don't hate Christians but they are not my favorite group of people either.


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## FlowerHair (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they hate Jesus, but that they dislike _some _people who represent Christianity. 

The reveals about the Catholic Church hasn't really helped either... 

But I never heard anyone say they hate Jesus or what Jesus taught.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 7, 2011)

Um, I'd disagree...Judaism gets more hatred.  But the world no longer wants to largely identify our Creator...many people are anti-g-d.


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## Daeuiel (Mar 7, 2011)

I have never heard anyone express any negative opinions on Christ or His teachings. I have heard people expressing discomfort or irritation at what they perceive to be condescension or pity coming from Christians. I have heard complaints that some Christians want to force their beliefs on others. That is clearly not the way of every Christian, but most people I know who are anti Christianity are just tired of being told it's the only way to be. Nobody is hating on Buddhists because there are no followers of Buddha telling you how to live. Just my opinion.


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## Shimmie (Mar 7, 2011)

Ravengirl said:


> For me it has because interacting with Christians has mostly been unpleasant compared to that of other religions. I don't hate Christians but they are not my favorite group of people either.



I think it's the other way around.  Truly. 

Jesus represents the 'Truth' and the Truth is what hurts.     

I realize that many folks who profess to be Chrisitans have come off as 'offensive' however, these professors' are not necessarily Christians as they profess.   They are actually no different than the world.   

On the other hand, no matter how loving or kind or giving a 'true' Christian is, as soon as one mentions 'Jesus', all hell and negative attitude breaks loose. 

I've noticed this as well, 'non-believers' or fake believers, are fine with Chrisitans just as long as a Christian 'agrees' with another's sin... everything is okay.  

However, as soon as a Christian says, gay is not okay, or getting high or cussing or whatever is not okay... folks get offended because they cannot handle the conviction of being aware of their sin; they do not want to give up their sin...

Well.. it's as I said in my opening statement...  

I have more to say... but I won't.  At least not now.


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## SmileyNY (Mar 7, 2011)

It's not hate for Jesus. It's hate for the all of the bible thumping hypocrites infesting the earth. Dropping it low to "No Hands" in the club on Saturday & Asking me why I wasn't in church on Sunday


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## Laela (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm going on the premise of the people who genuinely serve God and are spreading the Gospel:

*LUKE 4*
14And Jesus returned in  the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him  through all the region round about.  15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. 
 16And  he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom  was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to  read. 
 17And there  was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had  opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 
_18*The  Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach  the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to  preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the  blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, *_
* 19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. *
 20And  he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down.  And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on  him. 
 21And he began to say unto them, *This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. *
 22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth.


 A rejection of the Gospel is a rejection of Jesus Christ Himself - no matter who is delivering this message of Truth.  That is why God gave us all different gifts of the Spirit - to cast a wide net, to reach all. Jesus had 12 different disciples, each assigned with a different purpose. 




Qualitee said:


> Its like every where you go (even on LHCF) I feel there is hate towards Jesus. They never flat out say it but their views towards christiany are very tellling. It seems like every other religion is welcomed with open arms for discussion but once Jesus and christianity comes into the mix people feel to need to say how much they dislike chirstians, the bible etc. Yes we do have a lot of hypocrisy in christianity but that comes with everything in life. Its like every where you go no one wants to even hear the name God


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 7, 2011)

Jesus said, Iam the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me. He also said enter in at the narrow gate, for wide is the gate that leads to destruction.

The Truth hurts when we want to do it our way. The word offends those who are choosing their own way and they dont want to hear the truth because they know that they are accountable for it. 

I can be a hyprocrite all day long, that does not change who Christ is nor does it change the word of God.  You still have to give an account for your own life. *God will deal with the hyprocrites but what are YOU going to do about your own soul.*

Hypocrites will not be an excuse for you when you know the Truth but refuse it.


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## SND411 (Mar 7, 2011)

I believe the "spirit of the air" has a lot of peoples' minds in chains.


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## naijamerican (Mar 7, 2011)

I think that it's because many people, whether online or in their real, actual lives, have not heeded the exhortation that Paul gave to Timothy: to watch your life and doctrine closely, and to persevere in them in the hopes of saving self and hearers alike. It is not enough to believe the right things; one actually has to live the right way. There are people who post about their relationship with God and then turn around and have absolutely no problem calling other women the most base, despicable names. If that's what they're able to do online in the comfort of their own homes, imagine how it is in their actual lives.  Amongst many of the reasons that people do not like Christ - that is, aside from the reasons others have already cited, such as resistance to the truth and the simple fact that if people hated Christ, they will hate Christians - is the sad fact that many Christians make a mockery of His teachings through their lives. 

Even as a Christian, I find the vast discordance between the beliefs people espouse and their conduct here and in real life to be puzzling, galling, and downright disheartening. I say this not because I'm perfect; I will be the first to admit that I'm not, and I strive every day to lead a life worthy of the calling I've received. But I also made a commitment to myself that I would strive to comport myself online in a manner that brings glory to God. If the extent of your Christianity ends where man can see you, then how weak is your faith! 

This is why I do admire Shimmie a great deal. Even on the very rare occasion that I might disagree with her, her posts are full of grace and fundamental decency extended to others.


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## SmileyNY (Mar 7, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> *God will deal with the hyprocrites but what are YOU going to do about your own soul.*
> 
> Hypocrites will not be an excuse for you when you know the Truth but refuse it.



And another thing... Some so-called Christians love to pretentiously condemn people to hell & tell them that they need to "watch out for their soul". That approach is all wrong. God is not condescending or brash. This is why all judgement should be left up to him. I can't speak for others, but I keep my relationship with God between him & I. It's a very good relationship & I'll keep it that way by avoiding tainted outside influences. Unlike some... I like to show my devotion through actions and practices & not hot air. 

The pretentious "holier than thou" (and many times hypocritical) attitude of some Christians is the reason why there's a lot of animosity towards the religion. 


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 7, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> And another thing... Some so-called Christians love to pretentiously condemn people to hell & tell them that they need to "watch out for their soul". That approach is all wrong. God is not condescending or brash. This is why all judgement should be left up to him. I can't speak for others, but I keep my relationship with God between him & I. It's a very good relationship & I'll keep it that way by avoiding tainted outside influences. Unlike some... I like to show my devotion through actions and practices & not a bunch of hot air.
> 
> The pretentious "holier than thou" (and many times hypocritical) attitude of some Christians is the reason why there's a lot of animosity towards the religion.
> 
> ...


 

The word of God tells us to work out our own soul salvation with fear and trembling. The word of God is for me as well. Why would I not speak the word. Jesus told us to go and teach. If you are a Christian you should be concerned with speaking truth to your neighbors. I am not trying to be conscending. The same truth that I speak applies to me and I am in need of Christ daily like anyone else. I am not holier than anyone, Christ is the Holy one. It is not my holiness.

I did not say you were going to hell. But souls are important to God. The word says He that wins souls is wise.


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## DDTexlaxed (Mar 7, 2011)

It is because the devil is the ruler of the world right now. 2 Corinthians 4:4 says he blinds minds so the message the Christ has doesn't reach people's hearts. 2 Tmothy 3:1-5 basically sums up the attitudes people would have and it focuses on people loving pleasures rather than God.


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## SmileyNY (Mar 7, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> The word of God tells us to work out our own soul salvation with fear and trembling. The word of God is for me as well. Why would I not speak the word. Jesus told us to go and teach. If you are a Christian you should be concerned with speaking truth to your neighbors. I am not trying to be conscending. The same truth that I speak applies to me and I am in need of Christ daily like anyone else.  I am not holier than anyone, Christ is the Holy one. It is not my holiness. So what are you talking about?
> 
> It seemed harsh because like I said earlier Truth will offend.



How convenient for you. You can say whatever you want, judge whomever you want, & condemn whomever you want... Yet it's ok because if it's harsh, it MUST be the truth. Yes, very convenient. 

Every type of person in the entire world could find bible verses to support however they chose to act & however they feel... & ignore others that don't support how they feel. There are many contradictions in the bible. I believe God made it this way on purpose. He wants to see how we choose to interpret it. I know I'm choosing wisely. 

There's no debate here. You cannot change how I feel... and I don't want to change the way you feel. I'm just stating my truth. 

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## SND411 (Mar 7, 2011)

I have to say this:

When Christ asks you on judgment day why didn't you hear His voice and follow him, telling him "because I didn't admire you're followers" is NOT going to be a good excuse. 

I think people (including myself) are often too lazy to carry their cross and follow Christ, and we deflect by blaming others for our idleness.


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## SND411 (Mar 7, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> There are many contradictions in the bible. I believe God made it this way on purpose. He wants to see how we choose to interpret it. I know I'm choosing wisely.



This is interesting.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 7, 2011)

No judging here. I am in need of Christ just like anyone else. The word deals with me as well. I do not want to start a battle with you, you are my sister in Christ. Thanks for your input, I will check myself in all of this.


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## dicapr (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't get the hippocrite angle of why people dislike Chrisitians.  I've met Jews, Muslims, non-believers, ect who at one point or another have not lived up to what they profess.  It is human nature.  I don't get why Christians get so much heat for not being perfect.  After all, the main belief in Chrisitanity is that we are imperfect beings who need devine intervention.


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## lovely008 (Mar 7, 2011)

Christians are either hypocrites or too intolerant...people will always find a reason to turn away from Christ. I was the same way...but the day I was overwhelmed by darkness, I cried out to Jesus and he saved me and ever since then....

Christianity is about relationship with Jesus, at it's core, it's not religion, we are straight up followers of Christ (and Children of God of course) and I think if people never see past the religion label then they will find a reason to criticize it because it makes no sense to them.  That and I think God has given them over to whatever they want to believe as he said he would in his word.


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## SND411 (Mar 7, 2011)

dicapr said:


> I don't get the hippocrite angle of why people dislike Chrisitians.  I've met Jews, Muslims, non-believers, ect who at one point or another have not lived up to what they profess.  It is human nature.  I don't get why Christians get so much heat for not being perfect.  After all, the main belief in Chrisitanity is that we are imperfect beings who need devine intervention.



People need to find a tangible excuse to why they are too lazy to follow Christ. 

I don't buy the whole "I am not Christian because there are hypocritical Christians out there." For example, many of these same people are proud to be Americans even though this country has done atrocious and destructive things in its name.

Go figure.


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## BananaClipQueen (Mar 7, 2011)

I do know that "conscious" black people feel that Christianity is a white mans religion, designed to control our minds. They believe that the original Bible was rewritten by whites and that Jesus was a black man who was castrated (sp?). They believe that the black mans blood had to be shed for the white race to remain dominate. Christianity makes us unaware of what is really going on in society and its used so that whites remain in power. 5 percenters particularly HATE Christianity or the mention of the Jesus represented in the bible. This is MY understanding of this group of people based on being around them. I was born into and raised in Christianity.  I am still a Christian and always will be. The angry, negetive woe is me demeanor of the people I have encountered has made me want to read my Bible even more. It works for me. They tell me I cant be conscious and still be a Christian. So I develop my own belief system socially.


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## SND411 (Mar 7, 2011)

BananaClipQueen said:


> I do know that "conscious" black people feel that Christianity is a white mans religion, designed to control our minds. They believe that the original Bible was rewritten by whites and that Jesus was a black man who was castrated (sp?). They believe that the black mans blood had to be shed for the white race to remain dominate. Christianity makes us unaware of what is really going on in society and its used so that whites remain in power. 5 percenters particularly HATE Christianity or the mention of the Jesus represented in the bible. This is MY understanding of this group of people based on being around them. I was born into and raised in Christianity.  I am still a Christian and always will be. The angry, negetive woe is me demeanor of the people I have encountered has made me want to read my Bible even more. It works for me. They tell me I cant be conscious and still be a Christian. So I develop my own belief system socially.



I find it funny how these five percenters center their religion around the "black man' to the point they make the "black man" god. Seems like they just replaced one god for another.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 7, 2011)

Its like if you speak of Christ and the word, you get all this heat as though you are judging, you are holier than the rest. The word says, how will they know unless we preach. 

If we are His followers, we are to follow His commandments. If we allow persection to silence us, Then God will deal with us. 

Other religions go around and tell about their faith, that seems to be okay but we Christians get some heat. 

There is power in the name of Christ. It will get worse, that is why He told us this beforehand. Jesus spoke the Word and He was accused of blasphemy. So I guess I should expect nothing less.


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## naijamerican (Mar 7, 2011)

dicapr said:


> I don't get the hippocrite angle of why people dislike Chrisitians.  I've met Jews, Muslims, non-believers, ect who at one point or another have not lived up to what they profess.  It is human nature.  I don't get why Christians get so much heat for not being perfect.  After all, the main belief in Chrisitanity is that we are imperfect beings who need devine intervention.



I do get it, and the Bible itself talks about it (the passage I referred to in my previous post, for example; I forgot to specify it but it's 1 Timothy 4:16). As Christ Himself said, whatever measure one uses against others will be used against that particular individual. People (myself included) find the hypocrisy of Christians all the more disconcerting because many Christians live a life that is diametrically opposed to the very things Christianity espouses. Whenever I read the Gospels, it never ceases to amaze me how much Christ preached very hard truths directed at the Pharisees due to their hypocrisy. This issue gets me angry/agitated because we live in a world where the Christian right has totally co-opted the message of Christ and used it for their own sinister means to oppress and judge others, and they hide their nefarious ways behind Scriptures. This is why people are more angered by hypocrisy amongst Christians than any form of hypocrisy displayed by others from other faiths.

Having said that, hypocrisy will never go away, so being turned off by others' hypocrisy is no excuse to not pursue one's own relationship with God. But the Bible itself is clear that hypocrisy can, in and of itself, lead others astray and shipwreck their faith.


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## Poohbear (Mar 7, 2011)

Christianity and Jesus Christ are two separate things...


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 7, 2011)

This discussion is really good.

What makes someone a hypocrite. Is it just someone who's life is contrary to the word or is it when one makes a mistake? We have all done, said, and thought things contrary to the word. 

Also if you judge the same judgement will be measured back to you, so when I or anyone talk about Christians or others and call them hypocrites, are we not judging and being hyocrites?

I think humility is the key because Im sure someone can look at any of us and find hypocrisy.


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## naijamerican (Mar 7, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> This discussion is really good.
> 
> What makes someone a hypocrite. Is it just someone who's life is contrary to the word or is it when one makes a mistake? We have all done, said, and thought things contrary to the word.
> 
> ...



I really appreciate what you're saying.  To me, I define hypocrisy as something where you know that you're living a life that is totally opposite to what you're supposed to be doing, and you are both unrepentant about it and hiding that truth so that others who might challenge you on it don't even know. Making a mistake and acknowledging it as such is not the same thing as hypocrisy. Hypocrisy flouts true biblical truths in order to continue living in the manner that he or she desires to live, but still lays claim to being a Christian. 

I don't even know if this makes a lick of sense. I'm doing work as I keep up with this thread.


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## LoveisYou (Mar 7, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Christianity and Jesus Christ are two separate things...



How so Poo? Can we have Christianity without Jesus Christ? or do you mean the perversion of Christianity?

I think that's why it's so important to have a _personal_ relationship with Christ.


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## LoveisYou (Mar 7, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> I think it's the other way around.  Truly.
> 
> Jesus represents the *'Truth' and the Truth is what hurts.*
> 
> ...



Very true.  Especially because we live in an "anything goes/do you" world.


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## Nice & Wavy (Mar 7, 2011)

Oops...wrong thread!


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## SmileyNY (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm not understanding how feeling that many Christians are hypocrites translates to not following Christ...


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## SND411 (Mar 7, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> I'm not understanding how feeling that many Christians are hypocrites translates to not following Christ...



I think people were focused on the people who claim they won't follow Christ JUST because there are people who are hypocrites in his name.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> I think it's the other way around.  Truly.
> 
> Jesus represents the 'Truth' and the Truth is what hurts.
> 
> I realize that many folks who profess to be Chrisitans have come off as 'offensive' however, these professors' are not necessarily Christians as they profess.   They are actually no different than the world.




Although true, not quite the case with many instances.  I have to take my own community.  They weren't condemned in their practices against us until recently where they issued a formal apology...catholic and protestant.  There have been many wrongs committed in the interest of "saving" us.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 8, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Christianity and Jesus Christ are two separate things...




Especially since Jesus was Jewish.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 8, 2011)

SND411 said:


> People need to find a tangible excuse to why they are too lazy to follow Christ.
> 
> I don't buy the whole "I am not Christian because there are hypocritical Christians out there." For example, many of these same people are proud to be Americans even though this country has done atrocious and destructive things in its name.
> 
> Go figure.




1)To kids in boarding schools, ripped from their parents to take out their heritage and culture and to replace it with the White one.
2)To those same kids who were physically and sexually abused by those in authority over them.
3)To those whose friends and family died on those campuses
4)To the parents of those children who themselves became parents and can never erase the hurts
5)To those whose stories are never heard because they are not important enough to anyone but other victims

There are valid reasons for people to never want to follow christianity.  Luckily, there are those same people who find Christ and follow Him.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 8, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> 1)To kids in boarding schools, ripped from their parents to take out their heritage and culture and to replace it with the White one.
> 2)To those same kids who were physically and sexually abused by those in authority over them.
> 3)To those whose friends and family died on those campuses
> 4)To the parents of those children who themselves became parents and can never erase the hurts
> ...


 
I too have experience the pain of being abused by those in authority over me while being Christian. It can rock the core of who you are but like some of the ladies have said, it is about relationship not religion. It is a deep hurt that causes many to stumble but I held on to Christ and He bought healing.


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## Laela (Mar 8, 2011)

That's it right there. Truth cannot be silenced.  

Satan desires silence...so the Word won't be heard/seen/understood/believed. That won't happen. God is faithful to those faithful to Him, to accomplish His Work on Earth. 
 



Health&hair28 said:


> Its like if you speak of Christ and the word, you get all this heat as though you are judging, you are holier than the rest. The word says, how will they know unless we preach.
> 
> If we are His followers, we are to follow His commandments. *If we allow persection to silence us, Then God will deal with us. *
> 
> ...


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## anartist4u2001 (Mar 8, 2011)

i've heard and read many people speak badly about Christ. they call him evil. they call him a murderer. they say he committed genocide. they said God has done these things. Jesus is God so they were speakin' about Christ. 


they hated Christ, and still do, so they will hate you.


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## anartist4u2001 (Mar 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> I think it's the other way around. Truly.
> 
> Jesus represents the 'Truth' and the Truth is what hurts.
> 
> ...


 
I agree!

they want Christians to shut up! Christ told his followers to go and preach the gospel.  they even wanted Christ to shut up, but he didn't. called him the devil even! he wanted to finish the work of his Father. he did it until his death. 

also, why would Christ come if there are more than one way to get to the Father? his coming would been in vain. there would have been no reason for him to come.


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## ScorpioBeauty09 (Mar 8, 2011)

When you proclaim something to be 'the absolute truth' and that anything besides that is wrong, you're going to get a negative reaction.  Plain and simple.  I'm Catholic, but I'm from an inter-faith family and while most of my family is Christian and serious about it, we consider other religions just as important.  My grandfather (a Methodist) said there's no way God would condemn the majority of the world to hell because they're not Christian and I agree with him.  From my experience, the most intolerance I've ever encountered has been from Christians even though I am one myself.

As for the hate I've never heard anyone say they hate Jesus, but the condescension many Christians exude, especially towards non-Christians.


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## LatterGlory (Mar 8, 2011)

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 

Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other...


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## sleepflower (Mar 8, 2011)

America is by far a Christian nation. I am talking something like three quarters of Americans are Christian. Half the nation is Protestant. Atheists make up 5-9% (depending on how responses are parsed) of the nation. Non-Christian religious folk make up less than 5%. I would reckon most of the people left over consider themselves faithful but wavering or faithful but not part of any specific religion, with only a few saying they really do not know. So are you saying that there is some group of Christians who hate Christ and Christianity? If so, I would like to hear some facts about them. Because otherwise, you are talking about a very small number of people (because not all non-Christians or nonbelievers hate Christianity or religion) who may be pretty vocal, but hardly a blip on the radar.

No one is going John-Galliano-hard against Christians the way people do against Jews. No one is gathering outside Christian centers and yelling about killing them and how horrible they are just for existing the way they do Muslims. If they are, it has to do with something like being black or another type of minority, not being Christian. Are you saying this is not true? And if so, I again request hard facts and figures.

I am honestly confused. I hear a lot of Christians talk about being persecuted and how people hate Jesus and the devil's taken over and such as if it is suddenly impossible to be a Christian and live in peace. How is this possible when the overwhelming majority agrees with you? Give me some facts and figures, because it seems to me this sort of complaining comes out of a very skewed perspective, some falsified information (such as the idea that America is getting less religious, when it is not), and outright lies instead of anything significant.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 8, 2011)

sleepflower said:


> No one is going John-Galliano-hard against Christians the way people do against Jews. No one is gathering outside Christian centers and yelling about killing them and how horrible they are just for existing the way they do Muslims.
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## SND411 (Mar 8, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> sleepflower said:
> 
> 
> > No one is going John-Galliano-hard against Christians the way people do against Jews. No one is gathering outside Christian centers and yelling about killing them and how horrible they are just for existing the way they do Muslims.
> ...


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## SND411 (Mar 8, 2011)

ScorpioBeauty09 said:


> When you proclaim something to be 'the absolute truth' and that anything besides that is wrong, you're going to get a negative reaction.  Plain and simple.  I'm Catholic, but I'm from an inter-faith family and while most of my family is Christian and serious about it, we consider other religions just as important.  My grandfather (a Methodist) said there's no way God would condemn the majority of the world to hell because they're not Christian and I agree with him.  From my experience, the most intolerance I've ever encountered has been from Christians even though I am one myself.
> 
> As for the hate I've never heard anyone say they hate Jesus, but the condescension many Christians exude, especially towards non-Christians.



But many religions believe their way is the sole path.


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## BlackMasterPiece (Mar 8, 2011)

Excellent post sleepflower agreed 1 billion%.


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF


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## SND411 (Mar 8, 2011)

I do think people have a skewed version of "oppression."


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

sleepflower said:


> America is by far a Christian nation. I am talking something like three quarters of Americans are Christian. Half the nation is Protestant. Atheists make up 5-9% (depending on how responses are parsed) of the nation. Non-Christian religious folk make up less than 5%. I would reckon most of the people left over consider themselves faithful but wavering or faithful but not part of any specific religion, with only a few saying they really do not know. So are you saying that there is some group of Christians who hate Christ and Christianity? If so, I would like to hear some facts about them. Because otherwise, you are talking about a very small number of people (because not all non-Christians or nonbelievers hate Christianity or religion) who may be pretty vocal, but hardly a blip on the radar.
> 
> No one is going John-Galliano-hard against Christians the way people do against Jews. No one is gathering outside Christian centers and yelling about killing them and how horrible they are just for existing the way they do Muslims. If they are, it has to do with something like being black or another type of minority, not being Christian. Are you saying this is not true? And if so, I again request hard facts and figures.
> 
> ...



It's obvious you're not a Christian.  

This is not said as a disparagment towards you; it's not a personal attack.   Just an honest observation; no facts or figures required.  :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

anartist4u2001 said:


> I agree!
> 
> they want Christians to shut up! Christ told his followers to go and preach the gospel.  they even wanted Christ to shut up, but he didn't. called him the devil even! he wanted to finish the work of his Father. he did it until his death.
> 
> also, why would Christ come if there are more than one way to get to the Father? his coming would been in vain. there would have been no reason for him to come.



   

It just occurred to me that this thread must have originated in the Off Topic forum and was transferred over here.  :scratchch:  

Hmmmmmmmmm.... 

Okay....  

So now this thread in itself is a platform for an 'attack' upon Christianity and there are literally 100's if not 1000's more in the LHCF forum which are spear-headed against Christians.    

One of the biggest attacks is against Administration which is Christ - Centered; the  true meaning of Christ is not exploited.  The Admiistration, here, follows the Lord, yet when Godly standards are set in place, the attacks come against them left and right.   Thread after thread; post after post, the 'attacks' abound ...   against 'all' Christians.

The perfect example is the reaction to the rules in the Relationship forum which have lauched one 'attack' after another against the faith and the standards of our Administration for it is based upon Christian standards.  Threads upon threads and posts upon posts of 'attacks' have come against the Christian Standard of Living. 

Please.... don't get me started.  I'll just tell it all.   

The bottomline, this thread is indeed an 'afront' against Christians; for in this thread, I see more posts from those who love to take any and every opportunity to 'bash', throw darts, or bricks even --  -- towards Christians and Christianity and are doing so, right now.  

My response... 

"Bring it on..." 

"Jesus Loves You... each of you... anyway."  :Rose:


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## anartist4u2001 (Mar 8, 2011)

sleepflower said:


> America is by far a Christian nation. I am talking something like three quarters of Americans are Christian. Half the nation is Protestant. Atheists make up 5-9% (depending on how responses are parsed) of the nation. Non-Christian religious folk make up less than 5%. I would reckon most of the people left over consider themselves faithful but wavering or faithful but not part of any specific religion, with only a few saying they really do not know. So are you saying that there is some group of Christians who hate Christ and Christianity? If so, I would like to hear some facts about them. Because otherwise, you are talking about a very small number of people (because not all non-Christians or nonbelievers hate Christianity or religion) who may be pretty vocal, but hardly a blip on the radar.
> 
> No one is going John-Galliano-hard against Christians the way people do against Jews. No one is gathering outside Christian centers and yelling about killing them and how horrible they are just for existing the way they do Muslims. If they are, it has to do with something like being black or another type of minority, not being Christian. Are you saying this is not true? And if so, I again request hard facts and figures.
> 
> I am honestly confused. I hear a lot of Christians talk about being persecuted and how people hate Jesus and the devil's taken over and such as if it is suddenly impossible to be a Christian and live in peace. How is this possible when the overwhelming majority agrees with you? Give me some facts and figures, because it seems to me this sort of complaining comes out of a very skewed perspective, some falsified information (such as the idea that America is getting less religious, when it is not), and outright lies instead of anything significant.


 

go to countries that don't allow you to preach the gospel of Christ and see the persecution of Christians. there are missionaries who are based in parts of these countries. they have to hid out. they can't even tell their brothers and sisters where they are. they will be killed if their cover is blown. many Christians are being killed around the world for preaching Christ. 

yes, the USA is a Christian country (i'm starting to see a change in this even), but there are many people here who hate Christ and his children.


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## anartist4u2001 (Mar 8, 2011)

yeah i'm thinking this thread wasn't made over here.


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

naijamerican said:


> I think that it's because many people, whether online or in their real, actual lives, have not heeded the exhortation that Paul gave to Timothy: to watch your life and doctrine closely, and to persevere in them in the hopes of saving self and hearers alike.
> 
> It is not enough to believe the right things; one actually has to live the right way. There are people who post about their relationship with God and then turn around and have absolutely no problem calling other women the most base, despicable names. If that's what they're able to do online in the comfort of their own homes, imagine how it is in their actual lives.  Amongst many of the reasons that people do not like Christ - that is, aside from the reasons others have already cited, such as resistance to the truth and the simple fact that if people hated Christ, they will hate Christians - is the sad fact that many Christians make a mockery of His teachings through their lives.
> 
> ...



  Thank you.  I love and appreciate you. 

I wish you were around when my children were teens... they said I was mean.  ...  And.... 

I was....

I just wasn't having it with the devil trying to take over and rule my babies.  Not the fruit of my womb...  I stood my ground against the enemy.

Naji, my point is that 'we' as Christians have to take a stand and stand there steadfast.  

The world has absolutely NO problem standing for what they believe in; 

The devil and his worshipers have abolutely NO problem firing up their spears and arrows and firey darts and defending their causes and kicking the 'embers' and 'ashes' in God's face.  

Yet when a 'Christian' takes a stand...no matter how nice, or no matter how gentle and *non-*judgmental, it's still taken as such and the love so sincerely extended is overlooked.


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## Qualitee (Mar 8, 2011)

This thread was made in the christian forum. Yes Jews do get chastised but don't most religions? Not all religons are accepted throughout the world. All becuase Jews may be more chastised than chirstians doesn't make it ok,less bearable or should be blown off.


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## Qualitee (Mar 8, 2011)

So people in other religions are not judgemental?..ok Im going to need people to stop using that excuse because it is really weak.


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## anartist4u2001 (Mar 8, 2011)

Qualitee said:


> It was made in the christian forum.


 

oh ok my bad!


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## anartist4u2001 (Mar 8, 2011)

Qualitee said:


> So people in other religions are not judgemental?..ok Im going to need people to stop using that excuse because it is really weak.


 

LOL yeah that's a lie. humans see with their eyes. that's why we need the Holy Spirit to help us see the way God does.


also, the devil has no problem with you spreading lies. it's when you spread the truth that the claws come out. when you are his, he doesn't mess with you, but when you become God's he comes at you.


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

Qualitee said:


> This thread was made in the christian forum. Yes Jews do get chastised but don't most religions? Not all religons are accepted throughout the world. All becuase Jews may be more chastised than chirstians doesn't make it ok,less bearable or should be blown off.



Sorry Love...  

I was wrong.  I just happen to notice the couple of posters who are not Christians that are usually in OT.  

But all are welcome  :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

anartist4u2001 said:


> oh ok my bad!



I apologize to you too, Loved one.


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

Qualitee said:


> So people in other religions are not judgemental?..ok Im going to need people to stop using that excuse because it is really weak.





anartist4u2001 said:


> LOL yeah that's a lie. humans see with their eyes. that's why we need the Holy Spirit to help us see the way God does.
> 
> 
> also, the devil has no problem with you spreading lies. it's when you spread the truth that the claws come out. when you are his, he doesn't mess with you, but when you become God's he comes at you.



Please don't get me started on the number of Muslims AND Jews who 'attack' Christianity and verbally abuse Christians.  

In Maryland, I live in a Jewish Community and I can't tell you the number of times I've been snubbed by a nasty attitude and it is far more than harsh compared to the racist whites in my home in Florida.   

Let me be correct.  It's not 'all' of the Jewish community with this attitude; I get along quite well with my Jewish neighbors, they even compliment my Christmas lights...  Ooops  and I compliment their Menorrahs.  

I do see God bringing harmony into the mixes.  I respect the customs of my Jewish neighbors, and they respect mine.  It's the handful on both sides that make it *'appear' *impossible.


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## Poohbear (Mar 8, 2011)

LoveisYou said:


> How so Poo? Can we have Christianity without Jesus Christ? or do you mean the perversion of Christianity?
> 
> I think that's why it's so important to have a _personal_ relationship with Christ.


LoveisYou
Yes, a person can have Christianity without Jesus Christ. Several people are doing it today.  They participate or associate with the Christian religion but do not have Jesus Christ or his teachings in their hearts and souls.  And I guess you can say it's the perversion of Christianity.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 8, 2011)

Although Jesus was in the world he was not of the world. The world loves and gets along with those who agree with the world. The world does not understand the eternal. Jesus, the eternal one, never belonged to the world. It was his responsibility to redeem the world from what it had been reduced to through the ravages of sin. The world didn’t want that. The world still doesn’t want that. 

*John 14:17*  The Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

*1 Corinthians 2:14*  But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him; and he cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned;


*1 Corinthians 1:18* For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


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## Poohbear (Mar 8, 2011)

Smiley82 said:


> I'm not understanding how feeling that many Christians are hypocrites translates to not following Christ...


Smiley82

It doesn't translate to that. People who do not follow Christ, whether they are hypocrites or not, just simply don't want to follow Christ or are not willing to give up their love for sin or sinful lifestyle to follow Christ.

The sad thing is, there are people who claim to be following Christ yet they live sinful lifestyles. That does not go hand in hand. That's hypocrisy, especially when you portray yourself one way and live another way secretly. There are people who condone sin and talk about how Christians are just sinners saved by grace and they excuse their sins over and over without true repentance and remorse. That is what Christianity has turned into with some people and churches (not all).


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## naijamerican (Mar 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Thank you.  I love and appreciate you.
> 
> I wish you were around when my children were teens... they said I was mean.  ...  And....
> 
> ...



Thank you Shimmie. I totally agree with you.  



Poohbear said:


> LoveisYou
> Yes, a person can have Christianity without Jesus Christ. Several people are doing it today.  They participate or associate with the Christian religion but do not have Jesus Christ or his teachings in their hearts and souls.  And I guess you can say it's the perversion of Christianity.



A short but sweet post.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 8, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> @LoveisYou
> Yes, a person can have Christianity without Jesus Christ. Several people are doing it today.  *They participate or associate with the Christian religion but do not have Jesus Christ or his teachings in their hearts and souls.*  And I guess you can say it's the perversion of Christianity.



*Matthew 7:21-23 [Jesus said,] “Not every one that said to Me,  ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does  the will of My Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that  day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in Your name  have cast out devils? And in Your name done many wonderful works?’ And  then will I profess to them, ‘I never knew you: depart from Me, you that  work iniquity.’”                      *

I completely agree. And as the scripture above states, and its a scary scripture for sure, not all that do things in the Name of Jesus or talk about being a Christ follower, will enter the kingdom of heaven. 

So what makes a difference between the wheat and the chaff? Those who do the will of the Father and those who don't. 

It is a lifestyle of that (from the inside out) displays love, joy, peace, faithfulness, LONG suffering, gentleness, kindness...and not just those things that are displayed before people. 

It is a life of seeking to please God (not man). 

It is a life of constant prayer (how else you gonna talk to your Father and build a relationship?). 

It is a life of repentance from sin (those of omission and commission). 

It is a life of faith in God ability to save you, restore you, and reward you for diligently seeking him. 

It is a life of joy about the love of Jesus Christ that you can not help but TELL OTHERS about it. 

It is a life that gives GLORY to God (public and private, but your private worship is a reflection of your level of commitment to Christ). 

It is a life that change in yourself is inevitable (can you get hit by a Mack truck and not be changed? How much more of an impact will Jesus have on you? Jesus packs more punch than a thousand Mack trucks for sure).

It is a life that trust God to work all things to good for those that are called and diligently seek him. 

It is a life that seeks and desires LIFE from the Word of God. Read that Word, AMEN!

These and more possibly (but I'll stop here) are the markers of true Jesus Christ followers. 

Its a lifestyle. Its a condition of your heart. Its an everyday relationship. Its not seeking to correct others (though that comes with the territory), it seeks to bring glory to God.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 8, 2011)

prettyfaceANB said:


> *Matthew 7:21-23 [Jesus said,] “Not every one that said to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in Your name have cast out devils? And in Your name done many wonderful works?’ And then will I profess to them, ‘I never knew you: depart from Me, you that work iniquity.’” *
> 
> I completely agree. And as the scripture above states, and its a scary scripture for sure, not all that do things in the Name of Jesus or talk about being a Christ follower, will enter the kingdom of heaven.
> 
> ...


 

This is really good. Something we all should be striving for and ultimately that is to please the Father.


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## tamikachu =] (Mar 8, 2011)

IMHO, many people who I know that feel "a way" about Christians (and Muslims) feel that Christians (and Muslims) do not respect a difference in opinion and do not like to be challenged. Almost like a person can't have a decent, intelligent conversation with a Christian regarding difference of opinion/religion without being told that they are going to hell or being told over and over and over again that they need Jesus in their lives. I've been raised in the church and have drifted away, not because I don't love Christ but it seemed that I was not allowed to question anything or have an opinion that the general consensus didn't agree with. I left the church and it has been me and my God ever since.    
Sent from my HERO200 using Long Hair Care Forum App


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Smiley82
> 
> It doesn't translate to that. People who do not follow Christ, whether they are hypocrites or not, just simply don't want to follow Christ or are not willing to give up their love for sin or sinful lifestyle to follow Christ.
> 
> The sad thing is, there are people who claim to be following Christ yet they live sinful lifestyles. That does not go hand in hand. That's hypocrisy, especially when you portray yourself one way and live another way secretly. There are people who condone sin and talk about how Christians are just sinners saved by grace and they excuse their sins over and over without true repentance and remorse. That is what Christianity has turned into with some people and churches (not all).



I believe it comes down to this...

There are: 

*'Believers'*  True -- Believers in Christ who are sold out to Jesus.   Perfect ... NO, sold out, indeed.   No matter what level or stage of growth they are in Jesus, they are 'after God's heart' and desire to please Him, and to get it right no matter how many times they may fall. 

And Christians DO indeed fall.  

Many  have the 'bruises' and scars, even breaks with casts and slings, to prove it.  I know that I do and I bruise quite frequently and easily.   

Yet, 'we' get up, even when we don't feel like it, we get up; no matter what error or sin, we've been in. 'We' get up.   For Jesus is the 'Lifter' of those who love Him.  ('The Lifter of our head' -- Psalm 3)

*Non Believers* -- This just speaks for itself.

*'Make Believers'* -- 'The Counterfeits'... which is beyond hypocrite.   

I'm just gonna leave this one alone, before I start on those who 'say' _'Well I'm a Christian and I believe that such and such [fill in the sin] is okay.  _ 

They KNOW full well what God's word says, and yet they refuse to acknowledge that something is wrong when it's a plain as day the word 'Make-Believer' stamped on their foreheads. 

THEN... they start a thread telling on themselves, entitled, 'hypocrites'.   

To this day... I don't get this.  I just don't get this.  I just don't get it.  

Yes I do... "It's what 'Make - Believers' do."

*Official Warning:* 

Anyone who starts off a sentence with "Well, I'm a Christians and I don't see anything wrong with... {fill in the sin] ....."  

This person is / are NOT Christians.  They are not following the Word of God.  They are misleaders recruiting more 'Make Believers' who are in truth, 'Non-Believers' who want to have 'their' way and not God's way.  

They are speaking 'confusion' and God is not the author of it; satan is.  The devil is speaking his lies and confusion through these yielded vessels unto him -- these vessels whom are not yielded unto God, otherwise they'd speak what the Word says and not the foolishness of satan. 

I am putting this out there' because this is happening way too much both in and outside of this forum.   This forum is just a small 'reflection' of what is out there and what this world has come to.  

There are 'innocent bystanders' 'Babes in Christ'-- who are yet growing in the faith of Jesus Christ and the enemy sends messages from his messengers [the 'Make-Believes'] to entrap the 'innocent ones' and hinder their growth in the Lord. 

It has surely opened my eyes to a lot of what I thought and found out that it truly was not. 

Ummmmm, I just couldn't leave it alone, could I?  Don't mind me...I'm just 'typing' out loud.  

My comments are not directed towards anyone personal nor in particular.  

My roses are without thorns.  :Rose:  :Rose:  :Rose:


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> *'Believers'* True -- Believers in Christ who are sold out to Jesus. Perfect ... NO, sold out, indeed. No matter what level or stage of growth they are in Jesus, they are 'after God's heart' and desire to please Him, and to get it right no matter how many times they may fall.
> 
> And Christians DO indeed fall.
> 
> ...


 

This right here is truth. We seek to please the Father but even the scripture says a JUST man even falls seven times and gets back up. What makes him just? He got back up. Prov. 24:16

And its soooo funny that I used to date guys that would be like "I'm a Christian" and when I say we shouldnt engage in pre-marital sex because its fornication they say, "Oh I dont see nothing with that. If we adults and we lurveeee each other." Its like...come on dude... Its one thing to do it and know that you are wrong. Its another thing to not acknowldge that what has clearly been stated as wrong is WRONG. 

I am like, "Do you have a new translation because my translation dont say that?"


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

prettyfaceANB said:


> This right here is truth. We seek to please the Father but even the scripture says a JUST man even falls seven times and gets back up. What makes him just? He got back up.



The Greater One lives on the inside of us.  

He who is able to keep us from 'falling' will continue to do so until the day of Jesus Christ...

Note:  I omitted the scripture references [locations]  on purpose.  My Bible Study teachers would do this to make us 'look' for it and not just take his / her word for it.  The lesson was to 'search' God and not man.   

It made me 'study' all the more and to become one who hungers and thirsts for righteousness.  

I still search each day ...


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> The Greater One lives on the inside of us.
> 
> He who is able to keep us from 'falling' will continue to do so until the day of Jesus Christ...
> 
> ...



Good practice but for those that don't know, I'll add a hint Prov. 24:16


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## Iluvsmuhgrass (Mar 8, 2011)

I come over this way every now and again. This is my now and again lol.


My vantage point is this: 


When you believe WHAT you believe, it shows via what you DO. Nobody has to say anything because they can see God IN and OF you. God will be ALL OVER you figuratively and literally. It's not being syrupy sweet on the outside, while being full of piss and vinegar on the inside. You don't have to preach to other people all of the time because you're living by example. It's like being in class.... you can TELL me HOW all day (and I'm using myself as an example) but until you SHOW me how it's DONE, I may not get it. Does that make sense? (meaning walk it, don't just tell me how many scriptures you've memorized. APPLY what you've learned. By showing, you could be helping people to BE better Christians... or showing them the path so that they can choose to be on it... or not.)

I have a tolerance for ALL belief systems because it's the way I was raised. It's called respect. I sometimes find it hard to respect people that have no tolerance for others with different belief systems at all (irregardless of their religious/spiritual background), are quick to throw convenient scriptures (and often misconstrue the true meaning behind said holy scriptures), that throw stones from glass houses (the whole sweep around your own front door thing via telling others to get it together and your house ain't in order), and are wolves in sheep's clothing (see above reference to syrup, piss, and vinegar.) It baffles me how people can get together and gossip about folks (supposedly sister's in Christ), turn around and smile in the gossip topic's faces. You never know who's watching you and the way you act/react to others. You have to give an account for everything you do... and you're mistaken if you think you have to wait until after you're physically dead for it to happen. Things have a way of coming back around. People seem to want the glory without the suffering. The beauty, serenity, and goodness of Christianity, without the ugly truths. It's all or nothing ya know? 

Sidebar: My mom always said,"Man can try to hide, but when God is ready... He'll pull the cover off of it for all to see." Meaning that the truth is there and it always has a way of coming out. Always.... but I digress.


I don't hate Jesus or God (they go everywhere I go) but I have a deep disdain for people that use them as convenient shields to cover their own wrong-doings and/or short comings.


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 8, 2011)

Maybe its just me but it seems that this thread has turned into "let me point the finger at you" type of thread. 

If you judge and condemn are you not to be judged as well. 

I think that we all should be looking to the Lord and no tearing down one another. God is not pleased when we tear people down even those who do wrong, who are hypocrites, who hate etc.  

I am guilty of being judgemental as well, so I am asking the Father to forgive me. 

Love and Humility is the key here. No one is perfect but Him. 

If we say that we love God and hate our brother or sister, how can the Love of God be in us. 

I just wanted to share and hope that it bless each of us. 

Blessings


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## Guitarhero (Mar 8, 2011)

Two wolves are within me and they are constantly fighting each other for control.  Which one will win out and claim victory on the last day of my life?  I hope the good one  because I wish to travel through all the places over there in that fifth world.  But if I do not realize that I have two wolves inside of me, then I am doomed to miss that fifth world as I will think that I am without fault.  To know there is a bad wolf is good.


health&Hair, I think that people are giving their honest opinion as to why people disdain christians.  There are valid, political and social reasons as to why.  And I think that G-d uses these mistakes to point out His omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.


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## BeautifulFlower (Mar 8, 2011)

@tamikachu =], @Iluvsmuhgrass 

I agree with you two that there is a "Pharisee" spirit among alot of people that profess themselves to be Christians. Jesus never intended for us to be forceful but to speak the truth in love. 

Matthew 10:13-14 I*f the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.*

It does not say talk more, get mad, act up, roll your eyes...it says leave in peace. 

For those that get offended, condemn, and indignant if you do not believe in the Gospel, they are not operating in the Holy Spirit (only time this is different is if someone is spreading false Gospel with mal-intent). 

The Holy Spirit is a 'gentleman'. Those that genuinely care about the salvation of other would not get upset if you don't initially believe. If they get upset it may be because of pride that you did not believe them.

The Lord is the opener and closer of the heart and eyes to the Truth. They should take to prayer and patience for that unsaved person. Never back down but wait for the Lord to open their heart. 

Matthew 9:38 *So pray to the Lord who is in charge of the harvest; ask him to send more workers into his fields.”*

*Note: It is important for all Christians to remember that WE do NOT save and WE do NOT give wisdom. The Lord does. Our job is to tell the truth and live it out and God does the rest.*


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## Laela (Mar 8, 2011)

I respectfully disagree, Pooh...   In the book of Acts, the _followers of Christ_ were called _Christians _at Antioch. This still rings true today, despite popular opinion about what a Christian is. That's the beauty of God's Word..it never changes.  God creates. The devil perverts. 
Wearing an I love Jesus T-shirt won't get me to heaven. Posting in a Christian forum won't get me to heaven. Good works won't do it. Only knowing Jesus will. I believe that is the goal of many here, despite our differing opinions.  I believe we'll all be surprised when we see Truth face to face.


 



Poohbear said:


> @LoveisYou
> Yes, a person can have Christianity without Jesus Christ. Several people are doing it today.  They participate or associate with the Christian religion but do not have Jesus Christ or his teachings in their hearts and souls.  And I guess you can say it's the perversion of Christianity.


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## sunnysmyler (Mar 8, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> Two wolves are within me and they are constantly fighting each other for control. Which one will win out and claim victory on the last day of my life? I hope the good one because I wish to travel through all the places over there in that fifth world. But if I do not realize that I have two wolves inside of me, then I am doomed to miss that fifth world as I will think that I am without fault. To know there is a bad wolf is good.
> 
> 
> @health&Hair, I think that people are giving their honest opinion as to why people disdain christians. There are valid, political and social reasons as to why. And I think that G-d uses these mistakes to point out His omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.


 

The one that will win, is the one that you feed the most!  If you feed the "good" wolf with the Word of God/Bread of Life, he will be strong, ready to conquer anything that the bad wolf is trying to entice him with.

Now mr "bad" wolf, feeds so easy, all you have to do is........do NOTHING. The very nature of our being/flesh desires to live ungodly, engage in things that tantalize the flesh and feels good to us. That's why the Word says we were born in sin and shaped in iniquity, Psalm 51:5. 

What is a fifth world? Do you mean Heaven? What are the worlds 1-4? I've never heard of that.

@prettyfaceANB said it wonderfully, it is a DAILY walk, not just a Sunday and (insert your biblestudy day here) thing, but a everyday you wake up, you are putting on Jesus Christ and wearing him every minute of the day. We have clothe ourselves in righetousness. 

I am getting such a new revelation on this walk as a believer, and I was just thinking the same thing, so thanks @Qualitee for starting this thread, because there are like @SHImmie said, soooo many threads ripping Christian values to shreds.


We can play on words all we want to, and attempt to justify why we do/think what we do/think (that which goes against the values of our faith), but know, that we each will have to give an account for our actions/lives. There will be a JUDGEMENT day, whether we feel it makes sense to us, whether we feel like it's fair or not, whether we like what we feel or not, whether we like what people have told us about our behavior or not. 

Question: When's the last time you heard of a Christian killing a Jew, Muslim, Hindu simply on the fact that they didn't believe what the bible says or turned away from the Christian Faith?


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## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

prettyfaceANB said:


> This right here is truth. We seek to please the Father but even the scripture says a JUST man even falls seven times and gets back up. What makes him just? He got back up. Prov. 24:16
> 
> And its soooo funny that I used to date guys that would be like "I'm a Christian" and when I say we shouldnt engage in pre-marital sex because its fornication they say, "Oh I dont see nothing with that. If we adults and we lurveeee each other." Its like...come on dude... Its one thing to do it and know that you are wrong. Its another thing to not acknowldge that what has clearly been stated as wrong is WRONG.
> 
> I am like, "Do you have a new translation because my translation dont say that?"



They are more like 'little boys' who are looking for girls as toys... 

The problem is that it breaks the girl's hearts and their spirits.   

My Pastor once shared that unmarried 'Christian men are committing 'spirtual incest' when they have sex with a Christian woman; for they are commiting a sin against their Christian sisters. 

There will always be a _'pack of wolves' _who enter into the Church to seek the innocent blood of virgins to devour.   

These wolves don't stand a chance with an LHCF sister, because we can spot a 'wig' or a weave from any distance.  These very wolves who disguise themselves in sheep's clothing are literally wearing wigs and weaves from the shedded wool of real sheep.  They cannot fool anyone who knows Jesus Christ.  

So the next time they come up with that "I'm a Christian... 'but' nonsense, pull his wig off or snatch that weave out.  

Awwwwwwww, I've had too much 'coffee' today.    And decaf, nind you -- French Vanilla.     My posts have been all over the place in this thread, covering any corner of this subject that I can reach.  I'm just pouring out my heart. 

I do apologize for offending anyone.  I do. 

I am a Rose without thorns.   :Rose:


----------



## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

sunnysmyler said:


> The one that will win, is the one that you feed the most!  If you feed the "good" wolf with the Word of God/Bread of Life, he will be strong, ready to conquer anything that the bad wolf is trying to entice him with.
> 
> Now mr "bad" wolf, feeds so easy, all you have to do is........do NOTHING. The very nature of our being/flesh desires to live ungodly, engage in things that tantalize the flesh and feels good to us. That's why the Word says we were born in sin and shaped in iniquity, Psalm 51:5.
> 
> ...



Wow!  Yet there are Muslim 'terriorists' killing Christians and Jews. left and right.


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Mar 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> *These wolves don't stand a chance with an LHCF sister, because we can spot a 'wig' or a weave from any distance. * These very wolves who disguise themselves in sheep's clothing are literally wearing wigs and weaves from the shedded wool of real sheep.  They cannot fool anyone who knows Jesus Christ.
> 
> So the next time they come up with that "I'm a Christian... 'but' nonsense, pull his wig off or snatch that weave out.




I right here...Sometimes I forget this is a hair forum first....


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Mar 8, 2011)

sunnysmyler said:


> Question: When's the last time you heard of a Christian killing a Jew, Muslim, Hindu simply on the fact that they didn't believe what the bible says or turned away from the Christian Faith?



Hmp...And we are judgmental yet there are some that condemn others to death...


----------



## OhmyKimB (Mar 8, 2011)

Okay from what I've read. I think they point is being made and examples are being shown through what ppl are saying.  But no one has said once what they do about Jesus and their soul? If you feel as though someone has gotten on your nerves  in the past, do what the rest of us Christians do which is ignore them and love them anyway. I'm just saying....


I also feel like there's a whole lot of judgment in the thread that 1. shouldn't be here, and 2. doesn't answer the question. On the first page like three ppl answered the question already. So why did this thread become one of complaining about what another person does not like about a Christian?


You are taking a whole group and condemning everyone for the reasons which I see as 1. Someone pointed out ur sin and ur mad (trust me the rest of us don't like it either) and/or 2. You meet 3 crazy people and your making the rest of us pay for it now.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Mar 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> They are more like 'little boys' who are looking for girls as toys...
> 
> The problem is that it breaks the girl's hearts and their spirits.
> 
> ...


Shimmie you are on fiya today.  He said Stand and having done all to Stand. Stand having your waist girded with truth.

I am blessed by the ministry that God has put in you.


----------



## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

Laela said:


> I respectfully disagree, Pooh...   In the book of Acts, the _followers of Christ_ were called _Christians _at Antioch.
> 
> This still rings true today, despite popular opinion about what a Christian is. That's the beauty of God's Word..it never changes.  God creates. The devil perverts.
> 
> ...



I love that you said this...

_The beauty of God's word..it never changes. _

As humans, we're the only ones who do 'change' or attempt to ... change God's Word to match the sin I'm wearing for the moment or the day.  "Rationalizing' the behaviour which is such a weary waste of time and energy. 

Okay, I have to say this and it's not judging... 

But this is WHY Chrisitans get bashed so badly.  When folks rationalize a sin [or behaviour unbecoming] and when a Christian shares what God's word says about it.... We become the enemy.  

Yet Paul said this in Galatians 4:16 ... '... Have I now become your enemy for telling you the truth'?  

And finally to the bolded in your post... (way too much coffee for me today ) 

*This and all of * which you've shared is so very true; wearing the signs and labels are not it...it's how we live God's word, for we are each 'Walking Epistles' ... Gazing Stocks.  Our relationship with God will 'wear' on the outside from the inside.  

Wonderful post Laela.   Everyone has shared a wonderful views.   

Here's my rose for all... :Rose:  And without thorns.


----------



## Shimmie (Mar 8, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> Shimmie you are on fiya today.  He said Stand and having done all to Stand. Stand having your waist girded with truth.
> 
> I am blessed by the ministry that God has put in you.



I love you 'Sweet Lady' of God.  

But I have to confess...it's the French Vanilla coffee from my pink and white 16 oz filled to the brim cup. ...   decaf mind you.  

Love and blessings to you.  Going to get my train and to give you all a break.


----------



## OhmyKimB (Mar 8, 2011)

LoveisYou said:


> How so Poo? Can we have Christianity without Jesus Christ? or do you mean the perversion of Christianity?
> 
> I think that's why it's so important to have a _personal_ relationship with Christ.




I mean Jesus didn't come to start Christianity, he came to save our souls and welcome all those who weren't Jewish into it. He was promised to the Jews and it later spun into something separate


----------



## Guitarhero (Mar 8, 2011)

Wolves...meaning being representative of the dualism of life:  good/bad, freedom/laws...choice and result.  Every man has a wolf...there are none outside of him that he need fear...only the bad one inside himself.  It was rhetorical and not some kind of "spiritual" trickery/reveal that's gone over my head or something.


----------



## Poohbear (Mar 8, 2011)

Laela said:


> I respectfully disagree, Pooh...   In the book of Acts, the _followers of Christ_ were called _Christians _at Antioch. This still rings true today, despite popular opinion about what a Christian is. That's the beauty of God's Word..it never changes.  God creates. The devil perverts.
> Wearing an I love Jesus T-shirt won't get me to heaven. Posting in a Christian forum won't get me to heaven. Good works won't do it. Only knowing Jesus will. I believe that is the goal of many here, despite our differing opinions.  I believe we'll all be surprised when we see Truth face to face.


Laela,
What are you talking about? There's no difference in opinions in what you said in this post above. I agree. I know followers of Christ were called Christians in the Book of Acts. I know wearing a "I love Jesus" t-shirt won't get you to heaven or posting in a Christian forum or doing good works. I didn't imply nor say any of that stuff. I'm talking about something totally different. I'm talking about the perversion of Christianity religion today, which of course is caused by Satan. I'm not disagreeing with how Christians were in the Bible.


----------



## Laela (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm only going by what you said, Lady...  We're not saying the same thing. All I did was reminded you of the purity of _Christian_. A follower of Christ. It's simple.

Jesus didn't come to make Christianity a religion...He came to reconcile us back to God. Man made religion. Way back then, the ACTS of the Apostles was no religion. So CHRISTIAN, according to God's Word, has a pure beginning because Jesus came to fulfill the law, to remove the rituals and replace it with honor. Anything thing a Christian does today to honor God is out of obedience.  ACTS. Whether it's tithing, going to church, fasting, feeding the poor, visiting the sick and widowed, praying for others, etc.. they all stem from obedience to God. 
God didn't say 'if' you fast, He said 'when". God didn't say 'if' you pray, He said 'when.'

God's Word never changed and won't return to Him void.

Satan has tainted/perverted _Christian _to the point that it's far removed from what the Bible says. IOW, people who call themselves Christians and blatantly and deliberately aren't living the life, *aren't mocking God at all.* HE CANNOT be mocked. That is also written, and I know you know that. I'm all for balance. We could be sin conscious, but not to the point of obsession with the lives of others, esp those who have hurt us. I don't believe God wants us to live like this.

Just wanted to be clear and I hope I was, Pooh 




Poohbear said:


> Christianity and Jesus Christ are two separate things...





Poohbear said:


> _@LoveisYou
> Yes, a person can have Christianity without Jesus Christ. Several people  are doing it today.  They participate or associate with the Christian  religion but do not have Jesus Christ or his teachings in their hearts  and souls.  And I guess you can say it's the perversion of Christianity. _


----------



## Qualitee (Mar 8, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Sorry Love...
> 
> I was wrong. I just happen to notice the couple of posters who are not Christians that are usually in OT.
> 
> But all are welcome  :Rose:


 Its ok. No harm done


----------



## anartist4u2001 (Mar 8, 2011)

EVERYONE ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN!!!


----------



## anartist4u2001 (Mar 8, 2011)

HEY GUYS, I HAVE SOMETHIN' I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO. IT'S A SERMON MY PREACHER DID ON CHURCH TRADITIONS. IT'S PART OF A SERIES CALLED "WHAT JESUS HATES" HE'S DOIN'. I'LL SEE IF I CAN POST IT HERE. IT WAS SOOOOOOO GOOD. WOW, I WAS BLESSED SO I HOPE YOU GUYS WILL BE BLESSED BY IT TOO. TAKE CARE SISTERS! 

OH SORRY FOR THE ALL CAPS. CHILE I STARTED IN ALL CAPS AND DIDN'T FEEL LIKE CHANGING IT TO SMALL CAPS.


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Mar 9, 2011)

anartist4u2001 said:


> EVERYONE ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN!!!



This is not biblical true. 

From the mouth of Jesus Christ...

John 14:6 Jesus answered, *“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.*

Matthew 7:13 *“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.*

Matthew 7:21 *“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’*


I know some people say well what about babies or little children that do not understand yet...I am surveying the entire bible this year to understand but I am not sure of this. So those things that the bible does not speak on or I currently do not have an answer to, I do not profess to know or have an answer for. Which is ok because I am not God so my lack of knowledge only reveals my reliance on Him. I'll place into this category until I understand better...

1 Corinthians 13:9 *Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture!*


----------



## Poohbear (Mar 9, 2011)

Laela

NO, YOU ARE NOT CLEAR. SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH THAT I DID NOT SAY... 

I DID NOT SAY JESUS CAME TO MAKE CHRISTIANITY A RELIGION!

I JUST SAID SATAN WAS THE CAUSE OF THE PERVERSION OF CHRISTIANITY! WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME SOMETHING THAT I KNOW AND HAVE ALREADY SAID MYSELF?

I NEVER SAID GOD'S WORD CAN BE CHANGED! I NEVER SAID HE CAN BE MOCKED!

GEEZ, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!? 

I DID NOT SAY WE WERE SAYING THE SAME THING! I JUST SIMPLY AGREED WITH YOU AND WHAT YOU SAID IN YOUR REPLY TO MY LAST POST! YOU JUST MENTIONED SOMETHING THAT WAS TOTALLY UNRELATED TO THE LITTLE BRIEF POSTS THAT I HAVE MADE IN THIS THREAD! AND I AGREED!

SO WHY ARE YOU STILL BATTLING WITH ME OVER THE SHORT LITTLE POSTS THAT I HAVE MADE IN THIS FORUM? erplexed



Laela said:


> I'm only going by what you said, Lady...  We're not saying the same thing. All I did was reminded you of the purity of _Christian_. A follower of Christ. It's simple.
> 
> Jesus didn't come to make Christianity a religion...He came to reconcile us back to God. Man made religion. Way back then, the ACTS of the Apostles was no religion. So CHRISTIAN, according to God's Word, has a pure beginning because Jesus came to fulfill the law, to remove the rituals and replace it with honor. Anything thing a Christian does today to honor God is out of obedience.  ACTS. Whether it's tithing, going to church, fasting, feeding the poor, visiting the sick and widowed, praying for others, etc.. they all stem from obedience to God.
> God didn't say 'if' you fast, He said 'when". God didn't say 'if' you pray, He said 'when.'
> ...


----------



## Guitarhero (Mar 9, 2011)

OhmyKimB said:


> Okay from what I've read. I think they point is being made and examples are being shown through what ppl are saying.  But no one has said once what they do about Jesus and their soul? If you feel as though someone has gotten on your nerves  in the past, do what the rest of us Christians do which is ignore them and love them anyway. I'm just saying....
> 
> 
> I also feel like there's a whole lot of judgment in the thread that 1. shouldn't be here, and 2. doesn't answer the question. On the first page like three ppl answered the question already. So why did this thread become one of complaining about what another person does not like about a Christian?
> ...



I'd invite you to reread all the posts because there were many good answers, some of them by first-hand experience.  If christians cannot be transparent with themselves enough to listen to valid charges, then they have failed to learn what Christ offers - forgiveness and a way out.  The only difference between a christian and a non-christian is Christ.  The human element is all the same.


----------



## OhmyKimB (Mar 9, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> I'd invite you to reread all the posts because there were many good answers, some of them by first-hand experience.  If christians cannot be transparent with themselves enough to listen to valid charges, then they have failed to learn what Christ offers - forgiveness and a way out.  The only difference between a christian and a non-christian is Christ.  The human element is all the same.



I've already read the whole thread, when I posted that I read the first page. So my comments weren't directed to the few that were actually discussing the topic. Thanks though.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Mar 9, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> I'd invite you to reread all the posts because there were many good answers, some of them by first-hand experience. If christians cannot be transparent with themselves enough to listen to valid charges, then they have failed to learn what Christ offers - forgiveness and a way out. The only difference between a christian and a non-christian is Christ. The human element is all the same.


 

Guitarhero and everyone

The charges that were bought grouped all Christians as hypocrites which is not true. And yes there are hypocrites in who call themselves Christians. I have said and done hypocritical things so forgive me and those that have been damaged or hurt by Christians, I'm asking you to forgive. Staying mad will only hurt the person that wont let it go.  I can't make anyone forgive, forgivesness is up to the person. 

*The most important thing is that we know Christ and come to know Him.* Hypocrites will be around until Christ returns and tearing down Christians will continue as well, so what else is there to this thread?  Being upset with Christians does not change who Christ is and what God's word tells us.


----------



## Guitarhero (Mar 9, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> @Guitarhero and everyone
> 
> The charges that were bought grouped all Christians as hypocrites which is not true. And yes there are hypocrites in who call themselves Christians. I have said and done hypocritical things so forgive me and those that have been damaged or hurt by Christians, I'm asking you to forgive. Staying mad will only hurt the person that wont let it go.  I can't make anyone forgive, forgivesness is up to the person.
> 
> *The most important thing is that we know Christ and come to know Him.* Hypocrites will be around until Christ returns and tearing down Christians will continue as well, so what else is there to this thread?  Being upset with Christians does not change who Christ is and what God's word tells us.



As a people, the Church as a whole has to take the awful truth along with the glory. Our own sins are only part of the reason we're so hated.  But if guity, then we should own up to that. No one is persecuting christians in this thread, they're giving a response as to why.  The OP asked a valid question and wanted to know what others thought about it.  I think that everyone gave very good responses.  If anything, it lets the Church know that she has failed along certain points and that she can improve.  Is that not the way Jesus gave?  This life is a journey.

When the Church fails, the christian thing to do is to make amends.  I don't base my posts upon 1 nasty encounter with individuals, I base mine on policies that were in place and overlooked as harm was done and the Church was silent.  We're to always keep getting up and walking up that mountain when we fail:

*Episcopal Church Apologizes for Slavery, 
Discusses 'White Privilege' *

http://afgen.com/episcopal_church_apologizes.html


*Pope Offers Apology, Not Penalty, for Sex Abuse Scandal*


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/world/europe/21pope.html

*1992: Catholic Church apologizes to Galileo, who died in 1642*

http://4thefirsttime.blogspot.com/2007/09/1992-catholic-church-apologizes-to.htm


*UNITED CHURCH MAKES RES SCHOOL APOLOGY:*
http://sisis.nativeweb.org/resschool/oct2798uc.html


*Pope Apologizes (Sort of) for Abuse at Indian Residential Schools   *


http://www.sexualabuseclaimsblog.com/2009/04/pope_apologizes_sort_of_for_ab.html


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## Poohbear (Mar 9, 2011)

Health&hair28 said:


> Guitarhero and everyone
> 
> *The charges that were bought grouped all Christians as hypocrites which is not true. *And yes there are hypocrites in who call themselves Christians. I have said and done hypocritical things so forgive me and those that have been damaged or hurt by Christians, I'm asking you to forgive. Staying mad will only hurt the person that wont let it go.  I can't make anyone forgive, forgivesness is up to the person.
> 
> *The most important thing is that we know Christ and come to know Him.* Hypocrites will be around until Christ returns and tearing down Christians will continue as well, so what else is there to this thread?  Being upset with Christians does not change who Christ is and what God's word tells us.


Health&hair28

You're right. It's not true. No one in this thread said ALL Christians were hypocrites. Just some are. That's what I think Guitarhero is also trying to get you to realize.


----------



## Rainbow Dash (Mar 9, 2011)

Guitarhero and Poohbear

Thanks for your responses.


----------



## Laela (Mar 9, 2011)

No, not battling with you Pooh..   no need to yell and I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. It seems the more I try to explain my position, the less it's understood and that's OK. I guess I'm one of the ones you won't receive from and I see that, and that's OK. I love you!




Poohbear said:


> @Laela
> 
> NO, YOU ARE NOT CLEAR. SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH THAT I DID NOT SAY...
> 
> ...


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Mar 9, 2011)

I think the thread has run its course...all that we can stand on is truth...all the other banter does not matter. 

*Truth #1: *Christians will be hated and persecuated. Whether its because we do everything right or everything wrong someone will find fault in what you do. 

*Truth #2: *Christians are COMMANDED to be an example. If you take up the cross, wear it proud and represent the meaning of it. Non-believers are watching and WE ALL will be held responsible for spreading the Gospel and how we treat others. 

*Truth #3: *A Christians conduct DOES NOT take away from the truth of Jesus Christ and what he has done for you. So if you dont like the way Christians are, become one and be the change you want to see. 

Off soapbox...


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## anartist4u2001 (Mar 9, 2011)

girl i'm tryin' to be positive. i know it's not. 



prettyfaceANB said:


> This is not biblical true.
> 
> From the mouth of Jesus Christ...
> 
> ...


----------



## BananaClipQueen (Mar 9, 2011)

SND411 said:


> I find it funny how these five percenters center their religion around the "black man' to the point they make the "black man" god. Seems like they just replaced one god for another.



Yep. They drive themselves crazy if they dont balance the social and spiritual aspects of their belief. Thats why many come off as extremely angry. How frustrating is it to believe that you and your people are queens and gods when no one else does. Not even other blacks. I believe that Erykah Badu is the most sane of them all. Lol. What does that say? Lol


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Mar 9, 2011)

anartist4u2001 said:


> girl i'm tryin' to be positive. i know it's not.


 
Oh girl..you got me scared...


----------



## Shimmie (Mar 9, 2011)

SND411 said:


> I have to say this:
> 
> When Christ asks you on judgment day why didn't you hear His voice and follow him, telling him "because I didn't admire you're followers" is NOT going to be a good excuse.
> 
> I think people (including myself) are often too lazy to carry their cross and follow Christ, and we deflect by blaming others for our idleness.



Good word...


----------



## Poohbear (Mar 9, 2011)

Laela said:


> No, *not battling with you Pooh*..   no need to yell and I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. It seems the more I try to explain my position, the less it's understood and that's OK. I guess I'm one of the ones you won't receive from and I see that, and that's OK. I love you!



Whatever Laela. Laugh all you want. You quoted BOTH of my short little posts as if I didn't know what I was talking about. Your posts are understood... it's just that I don't see why your posts are directed toward my posts in this thread. I never said anything in opposition to what you have said in this thread. I actually agreed with the things you have said, and you STILL had a long rendition to say to me. So cut it out with the innocence and emotional sarcasm.


----------



## Shimmie (Mar 9, 2011)

anartist4u2001 said:


> EVERYONE ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN!!!



Good 'ice breaker'.  


If only this were true as it is God's desire  _... "for it is not God's will that any should perish..."._ :Rose:


----------



## Shimmie (Mar 9, 2011)

anartist4u2001 said:


> girl i'm tryin' to be positive. i know it's not.





prettyfaceANB said:


> Oh girl..you got me scared...




  I love it... 'Love and Humour.'  or is it 'Humour and Love'.   


Either way, I love it and each of you.


----------



## ScorpioBeauty09 (Mar 9, 2011)

SND411 said:


> But many religions believe their way is the sole path.


Not from my experience.


----------



## dicapr (Mar 9, 2011)

ScorpioBeauty09 said:


> Not from my experience.


 

Not all Christians believe that only Christians will go to heaven.  What we agree on is that it is through the sacrifice of Jesus that all will go to heaven.  Who goes to heaven is decided by God only and I would never pretend to know his mind or reasoning.


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## anartist4u2001 (Mar 10, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Whatever Laela. Laugh all you want. You quoted BOTH of my short little posts as if I didn't know what I was talking about. Your posts are understood... it's just that I don't see why your posts are directed toward my posts in this thread. I never said anything in opposition to what you have said in this thread. I actually agreed with the things you have said, and you STILL had a long rendition to say to me. So cut it out with the innocence and emotional sarcasm.


 

awwww sister


----------



## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks for the hug anartist4u2001 



dicapr said:


> *Not all Christians believe that only Christians will go to heaven.*  What we agree on is that it is through the sacrifice of Jesus that all will go to heaven.  Who goes to heaven is decided by God only and I would never pretend to know his mind or reasoning.



You're right. This immediately made me think of Oprah and some New Age Movement believers. Oprah considers herself a Christian but does not believe in Jesus dying on the cross for the punishment of sins anymore. She doesn't believe that He is the only way or path to Heaven. She believes that Jesus came to show us how to live and we should try to live like Him. That's it.


----------



## Guitarhero (Mar 10, 2011)

BananaClipQueen said:


> Yep. They drive themselves crazy if they dont balance the social and spiritual aspects of their belief. Thats why many come off as extremely angry. How frustrating is it to believe that you and your people are queens and gods when no one else does. Not even other blacks. I believe that Erykah Badu is the most sane of them all. Lol. What does that say? Lol




You mean that there are christians in that type of community as well?   The enlightened king of the hut.  Oh boy!


----------



## Guitarhero (Mar 10, 2011)

dicapr said:


> *Not all Christians believe that only Christians will go to heaven.*  What we agree on is that it is through the sacrifice of Jesus that all will go to heaven.*  Who goes to heaven is decided by God only *and I would never pretend to know his mind or reasoning.




I am one of them.  That is not what my faith teaches and believes.  They back it up by scripture.     A lot of times, people put human limitations on G-d because they do not fully comprehend that sacrifice nor His grace.  I think that we are often clouded by our own family experiences as representative of what G-d is.


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## Dellas (Mar 10, 2011)

I think it is his people and what they do. The hypocrisy is what people hate. I am a Christian and I dislike Pat Robinson for making Obama out to be Kenyan last coming of Christ. The mix of religion and propaganda politics has left me feeling real mad. I did not grow up in the era of 60s and the good people of the Church were carrying bibles by day and hoods by night. I grew up after that so I bought into alot of lies and it is really starting to show. I believe the bible and I have a relationship with Christ but I question a lot of interpretation and I allow God to judge people and not man.


----------



## Guitarhero (Mar 10, 2011)

^^^ If I had a bible or a dime for everyone who said to me that they do not comprehend the hypocrisy but christians respond always, "those weren't christians."  It makes one think about what the world is seeing.  I cannot comprehend how people separate themselves from the believers like Pat Robertson and the like who truly are skirting the criminal element (blood diamonds) but when good is done, they represent well.  The Church is the church, period.  The good and bad must be accounted for as a group.  If people would not backtrack and admit there is much wrong, it would say so much more to those who might consider the Messiah because they would see Him as He is.  It's when we get close to opening up and purging out the bad as the body of Christ that many shut it down.


----------



## Dellas (Mar 10, 2011)

I don't think it is hate but the loss of Respect! Which grieves me.


----------



## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Adel10 said:


> I think it is his people and what they do. The hypocrisy is what people hate.
> 
> *I am a Christian and I dislike Pat Robinson for making Obama out to be Kenyan last coming of Christ.
> 
> ...





You know what Adele?  I felt the same way; I did not like the disparagments that Pat Robertson placed upon Obama; and I felt this way throughout the entire Obama campaign and well after he was elected as our President.  

However, in the allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to my heart, I have begun to open my eyes and sadly, much of what has been said is true about President Obama.   

All I can see in this man is how much 'against' God's Word, his actions and policies have been. He has gone out of his way and has done more for the gay agenda then any other president and he has gone too far.  

I even had to see and admit that he has done more the gay agenda than he has for 'world peace' and the ecomomy of ths country. 

And ..... 

Drum roll here........ (brrrrrrrrrippppp)

He has done more for the gay agenda than he has for his own race... "Blacks".

I have lost respect for him.


----------



## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2011)

*Ephesians 5:27* 
"That he might present it to himself a *glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing*; but that it should *be holy and without blemish*."


*1 Peter 4:1-2 *
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, *arm yourselves likewise with the same mind*: for he that hath *suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin*; That he *no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men*, but to the will of God"


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## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> I am one of them.  That is not what my faith teaches and believes.  They back it up by scripture.     A lot of times, people put human limitations on G-d because they do not fully comprehend that sacrifice nor His grace.  I think that we are often clouded by our own family experiences as representative of what G-d is.



Guitarhero, can you ellaborate on your belief in regards to people other than Christians getting into heaven? If you do not feel comfortable posting here, you can send a PM if you like.


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## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> You know what Adele?  I felt the same way; I did not like the disparagments that Pat Robertson placed upon Obama; and I felt this way throughout the entire Obama campaign and well after he was elected as our President.
> 
> However, in the allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to my heart, I have begun to open my eyes and sadly, much of what has been said is true about President Obama.
> 
> ...



Shimmie

Really!?!?  @ the *bolded*...

I've been out of the whole political arena. What has Obama been doing to support the gay agenda?

I wish there would be more done for Black people who really want help. One thing I think of is to write off student loans for those who have completed their education! _*Okay... getting off subject here* _


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## Dellas (Mar 10, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> You know what Adele?  I felt the same way; I did not like the disparagments that Pat Robertson placed upon Obama; and I felt this way throughout the entire Obama campaign and well after he was elected as our President.
> 
> However, in the allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to my heart, I have begun to open my eyes and sadly, much of what has been said is true about President Obama.
> 
> ...



I have not uttered my feeling for Obama and believe you me....it is not much different. 

I just think we are upholding one law/standard and forgetting others. We say we want smaller gov'nt by giving doing giveaways to the rich and taking from the poor then we say to the poor trust God, look for charity in the church,...

I just think that the issue is much more complex. 
I vote for someone not just because of one or two issues but Character and a multitude of policies.

What is your policy about the poor and needy?
What is your policy toward greed?
What is your Character?
......


I argued with a friend about Abortion. 
This guy hates Abortions and calls it murder but he is the most arrogant, self centered person I know. Is outward sin just as bad as inward? Sin is sin?

I told him I was on the fence and while I personally don't believe in it, I don't believe other people's choices should be taken away because of my belief. I don't believe Christianity should be a yoke about people's neck that someone is forced to accept because....

1) All safety nets are gone and the only Charity is Christian charity so...your forced to accept Christianity.
2)etc...

I think you win people to Christ by your actions and your love not by rules. I think there are more policies out there that are just as important as gay rights and abortion. Has or will anyone address Vegas or Porn. NO.


I know many (older) Christians believe that oral sex is against God. Don't let me start talking about anal sex. I am not going to say what I believe but they believe that God is punishing people with HPV throat cancer for partaking in such things. They would like such things punishable in a court of law. 


Remember interracial dating was once portrayed as being against the word of God. I think gay people pay taxes and it is fair that they get there fair share of their tax dollars. It is not my right to judge them by taking their choice away.  Can I say I believe that that lifestyle is wrong, because of my personal religion and belief....heck yeah. 


I have seen this many times before....those who judge are judged themselves. America needs judgment. What they are doing politically and dismantling many of working peoples' rights will set the stage to get us there.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 10, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> @Guitarhero, can you ellaborate on your belief in regards to people other than Christians getting into heaven? If you do not feel comfortable posting here, you can send a PM if you like.



It's in our catechism and counciled upon (is that a word?).  Those, who through no fault of their own (rejecting outright when understood who the Messiah is and what He does) do not know Jesus but live according to the truth in their own religion or environment, carrying it out to the best of their ability, do not merit hell simply for not knowing Jesus.  So many do not believe that our works get us to heaven...but that is anti-scripture (on our side) because faith without works is dead.  The grace is fully free but how does one demonstrate and incorporate into one's life?  Through works.  It doesn't exclude those who do not know Jesus.


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Adel10 said:


> I have not uttered my feeling for Obama and believe you me....it is not much different.
> 
> I just think we are upholding one law/standard and forgetting others. We say we want smaller gov'nt by giving doing giveaways to the rich and taking from the poor then we say to the poor trust God, look for charity in the church,...
> 
> ...



  Adele, I'm _listening _to you.  

I'll be back to comment.  I have to finish a project at my desk.  I'll be back during my 'break'.  Okay?   :Rose:


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## Guitarhero (Mar 10, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> You know what Adele?  I felt the same way; I did not like the disparagments that Pat Robertson placed upon Obama; and I felt this way throughout the entire Obama campaign and well after he was elected as our President.
> 
> However, in the allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to my heart, I have begun to open my eyes and sadly, much of what has been said is true about President Obama.
> 
> ...



Shimmie, Robertson is dangerous, period.  I do hope that people read up on what he has and is still doing.  It's disgraceful (regarding Africa).  As for Obama, he just is the one who stepped into the arena at this particular point in time.  We have a republic.  It's the people who put them into office and carry out the laws we so desire to govern us. He cannot stand in as an oligarch.  Are there portions of the republic that do not approve, you betcha.  But the majority wins out.  Through it all, we strive to make a just society, not just a "christian" society.   It must be so for all.  Abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia of our elderly and infirmed...all issues that reared their heads long ago.   He doesn't stand as our christian in power, he stands as President of the country.  

This is the difficulty for Obama, even Clinton.  Bush claimed up and down his evangelical beliefs yet he's a bigger crook than Nixon.  Sigh...what to do?  In that case, it becomes an individual stand, an individual walk toward Christ.  Because, just as we are one Body, we all give individual accounts.  All these points are well-taken, imho.  I surely believe in the separation of Church and State.  I wouldn't wish for interference from either towards the other.

As far as doing for Blacks, that's not anything he has ever admitted to be on his agenda.  He made it perfectly clear during the elections that he is not a Black president nor the Blacks' president...he simply wished to be President.  To be honest, there's a lot more he could have done for our Native Nations first, especially considering the Freedmen issues of the Cherokee.  The Creek Nation is going to be next  in a huge class action suit!  And I know folks who are chiefs-in-training awaiting this chance!    Anyhoo, I knew that when Obama was made adoptive son of the Crow, and he ignored the Freedmen, the Dineh regarding uranium mining, natural resources on our reservations all through the country and silence on the issues...as we wait...he has not necessarily made good on his promises that our issues are first.  I could go on and on...  The AA community has way more than we do (I speak on a cultural basis) even with this horrid 55% unemployment...for many of us, it's 75% and higher.erplexed   I know what you mean and I agree to some extent.


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Shimmie
> 
> Really!?!?  @ the *bolded*...
> 
> ...



  Pooh, I'll be back a little later.  Just wanted to let you know that I acknowledge your reply.  :Rose:


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## Rainbow Dash (Mar 10, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> It's in our catechism and counciled upon (is that a word?). *Those, who through no fault of their own (rejecting outright when understood who the Messiah is and what He does) do not know Jesus but live according to the truth in their own religion or environment, carrying it out to the best of their ability, do not merit hell simply for not knowing Jesus.* So many do not believe that our works get us to heaven...but that is anti-scripture (on our side) because faith without works is dead. The grace is fully free but how does one demonstrate and incorporate into one's life? Through works. It doesn't exclude those who do not know Jesus.


 

This is not true. Christ is the Way, then how can this be. The scripture is very clear on this. Why would God send Christ to atone our sins if knowing Him was not necessary. We cannot make ourselves righteous. Christ blood on the cross is the only thing that. 

Jesus said I am the Way, the Truth, and Life, No man comes to the Father except through Me. *What does this scripture say to you? *It is very clear. 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, that Whom ever believes on Him will not perish but have everlasting Life.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this *not from yourselves*, it is the gift of God—*not by works*, so that no one can boast. *Ephesians 2:8-9*

 Therefore *no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law*; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This *righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe*. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified *freely by his grace* through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
*Romans 3:19-24*


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> Shimmie, Robertson is dangerous, period.  I do hope that people read up on what he has and is still doing.  It's disgraceful (regarding Africa).  As for Obama, he just is the one who stepped into the arena at this particular point in time.  We have a republic.  It's the people who put them into office and carry out the laws we so desire to govern us. He cannot stand in as an oligarch.
> 
> Are there portions of the republic that do not approve, you betcha.  But the majority wins out.  Through it all, we strive to make a just society, not just a "christian" society.   It must be so for all.  Abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia of our elderly and infirmed...all issues that reared their heads long ago.   He doesn't stand as our christian in power, he stands as President of the country.
> 
> ...



GV... President Obama is not 'that' naive that he doesn't know right from wrong.  He is literally kissing the 'butts' of the gay community.  It's almost as if he doesn't want to appear to be 'Black Focused'.   

I'm telling you clear from my heart, he is behaving like soooooo and waayyyy too many Blacks who get into a power position, and they 'kiss up' to the whites to appear unbiased to their own race. 

The irony is that he only empowering the white supremacy including those whom you call 'dangerous' in Ministry (i.e. Pat Robertson).   By focusing on the demands of the gay agenda (gay marriage, putting them into high positions in his office to prove he's not homophobic, etc.).

And you're right Precious One... he is not a 'Black' president.  He's gay! Kissed up; straight up politically gay! Their weak agenda was far more impressive and far more important to him for political gain.  

*And to keep this thread on topic...* if anyone wants to call someone a hypocritical 'Christian'... he's the 'Billboard' poster for it.  For did he not claim and proclaim to be a Christian throughout his entire campaign? Did he not take full advantage of the prayers and coverings of those who believed he was such?  

The sad thing is that he has done 'Blacks' and the Lord Jesus Christ an injustice; he has totally disregarded the values of Christianity and those who put their hearts into getting him elected.  The very ones who stood by him and he's literally behaving like the sterotype Black man who abandons his family members who gave him life. 

*Pausing* .... Just to make it clear that I'm not typing in fury.  I'm quite calm; just sharing my Obama observations. 

President Obama is a shining example of 'Fake Chrisitanity'.  He is the stirring of threads topics such as these...hypocrite.

I honestly don't believe that there are any true Christians in politics.  Either they've been hushed to silence and non-existance or they simply do not exist.  For where God is, so is His power and His presence made known. 

The Black communities profit nothing from the gay agenda....NOTHING!  *If nothing more*, it tears it down.  The strong family men are weak and feminized.  The women outnumber the men among those _gendered as men_.  The schools are still in a shambles in the Black inner cities.  Drugs are still previlent and growing; Black youth are still increasing the jail population. 

And this is what he chose for those who carried him to the White House.  And the Blacks still love him; the same as a child who still loves the absent father; Blacks still support him and will kill anyone who'd dare harm him,  gays wouldn't do it.  All they did was complain that he wasn't doing enough for them and he chose to bow to their demands...

When you speak of *separation of Church and state...* it's not so.  The comment made by one of the gay leaders  is that they have only gotten a 'bite' of the apple, but they want the whole thing.   The whole thing includes silencing the Church via the government rule.   

Please do not be blind as to not see this.  For by redefining the definition of  marriage, trust me, this is the bite of the apple for them and silencing the Church is the entire consumption. 

  

I am a Rose without thorns, meaning that I am not speaking from hate nor anger, nor am I out to hurt anyone; I speak truly in love .  :Rose:


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## Laela (Mar 10, 2011)

About Obama...he still is president. He comes up in corporate prayer and when I pray for our leadership (senators/mayors, etc), whether they are saved or not.  In doing so, we're not honoring them, but God himself. It's not the same thing as defending or backing his policies or what his personal spiritual life is.

Daniel lived under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar and helped him with his dreams but still openly prayed to God; Joseph lived under the rule of Pharaoh, refused to sin against his God, but helped Pharaoh with his dreams. Both were used by God to minister to these kings. The difference between them and the likes of Robertson, et al, is there was absolutely NO compromise. IOW, no politicking was involved. Daniel's and Joseph's *allegiance *was to God, not the authorities. Big difference, no? 
[I'm not accusing anyone of not praying for authorities, just interjecting this into the conversation]

I Timothy 2:1-2 
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.





Shimmie said:


> You know what Adele?  I felt the same way; I did not like the disparagments that Pat Robertson placed upon Obama; and I felt this way throughout the entire Obama campaign and well after he was elected as our President.
> 
> *However, in the allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to my heart, I have begun to open my eyes and sadly, much of what has been said is true about President Obama.
> *
> ...


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Laela said:


> About Obama...he still is president. He comes up in corporate prayer and when I pray for our leadership (senators/mayors, etc), whether they are saved or not.  In doing so, we're not honoring them, but God himself. It's not the same thing as defending or backing his policies or what his personal spiritual life is.
> 
> Daniel lived under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar and helped him with his dreams but still openly prayed to God; Joseph lived under the rule of Pharaoh, refused to sin against his God, but helped Pharaoh with his dreams. Both were used by God to minister to these kings. The difference between them and the likes of Robertson, et al, is there was absolutely NO compromise. IOW, no politicking was involved. Daniel's and Joseph's *allegiance *was to God, not the authorities. Big difference, no?
> [I'm not accusing anyone of not praying for authorities, just interjecting this into the conversation]
> ...



I just figured out "IOW" ...  _In other words...  _

I thought you had a new name for me.  

I'm so glad that you brought up Daniel and Joseph... no compromise.  They answered (interpreted) the dreams which God was 'speaking' to these leaders who were not in fellowship with Him. 

When Obama repealed DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) he went too far.  He has opened the floodgates to disaster; he should have left that alone.  And the only thing that is keeping him alive ARE the prayers and the love of those he's turned his back on.  He's gone too far. 

He, himself proclaimed in his campaign that he solidly believed marriage to be defined as that between a man and a woman.  And he stated so as a Christian.  He didn't backslide, he didn't back peddle; he blatantly dishonored the foundation of God's order.  He opened a flood gate for this sin to abound and made legal in this country.  He opened a floodgate for schools to poison the minds of innocent children by including homosexuality as part of everyday living; he opened a floodgate for the Church to be silenced and not speak God's truth about it. 

Of all things for a man to known for, this will be it. And it's a joke.  A Black man who's only accomplishment as president was to appease gays.


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Laela...

What I shared in my post above is 'on topic' with this thread title. 

Here's why, Loved one...

What I shared above is why MANY folks 'hate' Chrisitans... 

I still meant what I said in my post above, but I just wanted to make a point by example. 

And Yes, I'm being a 'smartie'...    But not towards you or anyone else.  

This is si;mply one of the things that folks say they hate Christianity or Chrisitians when something is said against what they hold allience to no matter what it is. 

:Rose:


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## Laela (Mar 10, 2011)

^^ I understand, Shimmie! No offense taken and good points about the effects of _ObamaNation _ on Christianity as a whole. 

Not disputing that at all...


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Laela said:


> ^^ I understand, Shimmie! No offense taken and good points about the effects of _ObamaNation _ on Christianity as a whole.
> 
> Not disputing that at all...



I know 'Love' 

You understand me.  And trust that takes a WHOLE lot of Jesus, which you have... to do so.   

I don't know how you and Nice & Wavy put up with me for so long...


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> Shimmie
> 
> Really!?!?  @ the *bolded*...
> 
> ...





Adel10 said:


> I have not uttered my feeling for Obama and believe you me....it is not much different.
> 
> I just think we are upholding one law/standard and forgetting others. We say we want smaller gov'nt by giving doing giveaways to the rich and taking from the poor then we say to the poor trust God, look for charity in the church,...
> 
> ...



Poohbear and Adel10

I relate to what you have shared.  I think I may have responded to your posts (somewhat) in my reply to Guitarhero. (formerly Volver).  

I hope that I have not come off as offensive to either of you or anyone else.  If so, I apologize. 

:blowkiss:

Sincerely meant.


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## locabouthair (Mar 10, 2011)

I didnt know people had such a strong dislike for Christianity until I came to this board.


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

locabouthair said:


> I didnt know people had such a strong dislike for Christianity until I came to this board.



Neither did I.  As a matter of fact, I thought that this entire forum was Christian, until one day when I made a post showed who I was... and after that it was on


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## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> Poohbear and Adel10
> 
> I relate to what you have shared.  I think I may have responded to your posts (somewhat) in my reply to Guitarhero. *(formerly Volver)*.
> 
> ...


Thanks Shimmie. No, you have not offended me.

Guitarhero, I didn't know you were Volver Alma Gitana! You're always changing your screen name!!!


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## Guitarhero (Mar 10, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> @Poohbear and @Adel10
> 
> I relate to what you have shared.  I think I may have responded to your posts (somewhat) in my reply to Guitarhero. (formerly Volver).
> 
> ...




I don't have to hide anything, Shimmie.  Yes, I am formerly Volver.  Reason for the name change...new subscription since mine expired and I wanted to continue on.  It had run out.  Besides, your real name isn't Shimmie and neither is mine Gv.  You don't have to keep pointing that out as I've already done that sometime after my new resubscribe and response to a thread in which I made it clear that that's who I was.  Still me, still changing my avatars and sigs to new art/comedy/whichever and it will still represent Native America.  Don't understand why you think you are outing me.  Outing for what?  I'm not outed as I have done nothing wrong, seedy, corrupt, needing to be hidden...I've already indicated who I was.  Let me find that post:


ETA:  In a few days, I may find it.  I know I told somebody when I responded.  So it was already "out" there.  Again, this is a moniker for fun.  It's not my real name.  None of these are our real names and if so, we need to pose some serious questions to our parents.   So, please don't feel that I'm hiding behind any posts.  I have always had the same concerns, used the same types of siggies, written the same way, etc.  I simply do not care of someone recognizes or doesn't recognize my moniker has changed as it doesn't affect what I respond to.  That'll always be the same.    Believe me, I'm intelligent enough to know how to hide as well as to find others in real life.  My nickname isn't Mossad-nik for nothing.  


Always Catholic, Native American/Afro, from Kansas, Living in Pittsburgh, PA, etc. etc. etc....and a kick-*** Jewish descendant who minces no words.


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## Dellas (Mar 10, 2011)

I am not offended. I think that we treat Christianity as a good'ol boy club or sorority inwhich you are either in or your out. You either agree with me or your going to hell. I grew under Pentecostal teaching. I was told that the Baptist was going to hell because they did not believe in tongues, and .........

......



I followed all the rules because other people said I should but did not know why and did not have a deep understanding why. People have different revelation of Christ and the word. It doesn't have to be the same. People have to grow at their own pace and they should be allowed to be different and have different feeling and philosophies.


DOMA??? I think a marriage is between a man and a women. I also think gays pay taxes have rights. Do I think Obama loves God and is a God fearing man. I can not judge his heart but he does seem to carry himself in an honest and upright manner ....for a politician. Do I think Pat Robinson is a God fearing man? I think he brings in his personal beliefs and mix it up in his ministry and try to equate the two. ....


I heard a popular minister say that one has to believe God for a wife or you might get some Black tar baby and you have to set your standards. Is this God or his personal belief. He is a popular TV minister .....and it is not the one caught up in the Gay scandal. 

I almost flipped when I saw Steve Harvey on TBN preaching to Black women that they need to settle. I also blew a nerve in my neck. I needed water!!!


All ministers seem to get off message. Therefore, it is up to the believer to filter information. 

Back to DOMA,
The Bible, written by men, inspired by God, does state that homosexuality is a sin. This is very very very clear. Now, I may not agree with it in my own personal life but I do think that Gays have the right to civil unions with all the benefits. Newt, Pat Robinson, Donald Trump,....no leader that I know of can talk to much about DOMA because they need to look at their own short comings.


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## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2011)

I think the issue with homosexual unions has a lot to do with how a lot of men/women marriages started off as fornicating relationships. So the gays probably feel like _if fornicators can get married, how come we can't?_  Just a thought, I'm not really sure. I just know how sexually perverse our society has become. I personally don't agree with gay marriage, but I think heterosexual fornication and adultery are sins that are often overlooked in comparison with homosexuality being a sin.


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## Dellas (Mar 10, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> I think the issue with homosexual unions has a lot to do with how a lot of men/women marriages started off as fornicating relationships. So the gays probably feel like _if fornicators can get married, how come we can't?_  Just a thought, I'm not really sure. I just know how sexually perverse our society has become. I personally don't agree with gay marriage, *but I think heterosexual fornication and adultery are sins that are often overlooked in comparison with homosexuality being a sin*.




People get very myopic when they start talking about Gay people. They forget that the bible talks about other sin. Sin is sin.


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Adel10 said:


> I am not offended. I think that we treat Christianity as a good'ol boy club or sorority inwhich you are either in or your out. You either agree with me or your going to hell. I grew under Pentecostal teaching. I was told that the Baptist was going to hell because they did not believe in tongues, and .........
> 
> ......
> 
> ...


Adele... I promise you, I'm listening. 

As for gays paying taxes, we ALL pay taxes and me being Black and quite heavily taxed and that does not give me nor gays the right to redefine marriage, teach my children that sexual behaviour contrary to what I am teaching them is acceptable. 

No one has ever condoned adultery ... look at the exposure of said leaders in the news which have been 'outted' for doing such and have lost their high postitions in office when caught and not for gay sex but normal sex.  

gays are NOT entitled to change a thing about marriage.  Please understand that this is more than marriage that they are going for.  It's the 'bite' of the apple.  They are truly going after the Word of God to be outruled and outlawed which says that homosexuality is sin.  

The difference with their unions is that they are 'marrying' the sin.  They are legalizing the sin; they are teaching the upcoming generations that this particular sin has RIGHTS over everything be it right or wrong.  They are saying that homosexuality trumps all, even to the point of changing and uprooting the very foundation that God has ordained it to be.  

Paying taxes does not give them the right to trump anything except be glad that God placed His grace upon them.  Adultery and fornication has never had a free pass; this is just a weak argument to excuse the gay agenda.  It a turning of the tables rather than say that gay is indeed not okay. 

I gotta stop here and give you a big hug 



Because I'm not fussing at you, Adele.  I'm listening to you with my heart and I respect you.  

Adele... Babygirl when you look into the 'spritual realm of this... OH My Goodness... and then look at how all of these events line up with the prophesies in God's Word.   

Sweetheart... God said that these things would occurr; He clearly said that many would be deceived and blinded.   Babygirl, even if I appear mean and unattached to compassion, it's not that way at all.    As Christians we MUST stay focused and we MUST allow God to show us BEYOND our emotions and compassion the stategy and deceptions of satan.   

Babygirl.... NEVER in history has so much sin been evolved as prophesied in God's word.  I'm standing for Jesus... come hell or hell or hell.  I'm standing.  I have to.. I WANT to and I fear no man, because I stand.   

Another hug...    For my Words are not an afront towards you and what you have shared.  Babygirl, my attack is against satan and his lies.  :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> I think the issue with homosexual unions has a lot to do with how a lot of men/women marriages started off as fornicating relationships. So the gays probably feel like _if fornicators can get married, how come we can't?_  Just a thought, I'm not really sure. I just know how sexually perverse our society has become. I personally don't agree with gay marriage, but I think heterosexual fornication and adultery are sins that are often overlooked in comparison with homosexuality being a sin.



That's the 'gay argument and supporter's justification...'

What do you think God's response to this is?  

I remember when I'd use a similar excuse with my parents "But Mommie, Cindy's mom let's her stay out at midnight'.... My mom wasn't hearing it. 

    For you, Pooh. 

I'm not battering with you either, Precious Pooh.  My fire is not against anyone here.  I'm simply dispelling the lies of satan.  

Love and hugs to you... :Rose:


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## Guitarhero (Mar 10, 2011)

Adel10 said:


> I heard a popular minister say that one has to believe God for a wife or you might get some Black tar baby and you have to set your standards. Is this God or his personal belief. He is a popular TV minister .....and it is not the one caught up in the Gay scandal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What's DOMA?  But who on earth said that?  Well, aren't some wives "black tar babies" as well as some husbands?  As though BTB is a separate species of man.  Good grief!


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## Dellas (Mar 10, 2011)

I understand that you pay taxes as well. You should vote and will vote ....as will I. 

Do I think we should teach that sexuality/homosexuality in the classroom? No or provide an opt out. 
Do I think that there should be prayer in school? Yes with an opt out. I think the parents belief and family belief should be respected on both sides...therefore no entity should try to proselytize.

I don't like mandates. 

Civil Unions and basic rights for people are okay with me. I am tired of people being punished because they are not married, can't find someone to marry, or of the same sex.


The model of Good behavior is two white educated people with money and 2.5 kids. If you stray from that model then you punished on your taxes, socially, financially, and in every area of life.



......


We can disagree and both retain our relationship with God. I use to think Catholics were crazy for asking a man for forgiveness and praying to the virgin Mary until I found a group of Joyce Myer following Catholics who loved God and studied the word of God.


Let God judge people.


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Adel10 said:


> I understand that you pay taxes as well. You should vote and will vote ....as will I.
> 
> Do I think we should teach that sexuality/homosexuality in the classroom? No or provide an opt out.
> Do I think that there should be prayer in school? Yes with an opt out. I think the parents belief and family belief should be respected on both sides...therefore no entity should try to proselytize.
> ...



All that I believe is based upon the Word of God, not what I 'think' or mis-believe but what 'thus saith the Lord'.   

This is still HIS earth that He has so graciously allowed us to 'sin' and disrespect Him upon.  It doesn't matter who pays taxes or what they feel they are entitled too.  It's still those who uphold what God's Word says.  

God Word says we are to teach our children His Word and His ways.  We are to keep His Word as 'Frontlets' before our eyes.  We are not to turn to the left neither to the right.  

Civil unions for gays are not God nor His ways; even if they give their entire pay checks and savings in taxes, it does not allow them the right to change what God's order has been deemed as right.   

As a Christian, it doesn't mean a hill of beans if we believe in civil unions as a gay entitlement, for as a Christian we must put God FIRST, not gays and their afront against Him. 

I love this scripture... 

_"How long will you halt between two opinions?  If God be God... serve Him... if Baal be God, serve Him. "  (I Kings 18)._ 

The god of the children of Baal failed them... God did not fail those who stood for Him, no matter what. 

I'm not serving gays...I'm serving God.  :Rose:  

I love you, sweet sister.  I'm not attacking you, and I must make this clear, as I don't hold back when I'm taking a stand for Jesus and not man.


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## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> That's the 'gay argument and supporter's justification...'
> 
> *What do you think God's response to this is?  *
> 
> ...



God's response to this is these people (fornicators, adulterers, and homosexuals...among other habitual sinners) who continue in their sin with no repentance or remorse shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


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## Poohbear (Mar 10, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> What's DOMA?  But who on earth said that?  Well, aren't some wives "black tar babies" as well as some husbands?  As though BTB is a separate species of man.  Good grief!



Guitarhero, DOMA is *Defense of Marriage Act*: is a United States federal law signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996 whereby the federal government defines marriage as a legal union between one man and one woman. Under the law, also known as DOMA, no state (or other political subdivision within the United States) may be required to recognize as a marriage a same-sex relationship considered a marriage in another state.


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## Guitarhero (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm not so good with acronyms...but I do recognize the Act.  How embarassing lol!


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## Dellas (Mar 10, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> All that I believe is based upon the Word of God, not what 'think' or believe but what 'thus saith the Lord'.
> 
> This is still HIS earth that He has so graciously allowed us to 'sin' and disrespect Him upon.  It doesn't matter who pays taxes or what they feel they are entitled too.  It's still those who uphold what God's Word says.
> 
> ...





God freely gave me a choice to serve him or not. He did not force me to and put into law things that would force me to serve him or bow to him.
We are not showing our Christian love to people by forcing our will and our laws on them. I believe we should be a tolerant society that respect all people. I am gonna end this argument-non-argument here. I am not serving two masters. I serve Jesus Christ. I know who God is. Because I have a difference of opinion does not mean I am less of a Christian. I will let God judge my hurt and you let him judge yours. Peace!

*1 Corinthians 5:12-13
*_12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13

_*1 Corinthians 4:5
*_Therefore  judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He  will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the  motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from  God.

_*James 4:11-12*_
 11... Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it... 12... who are you to judge your neighbour?


_


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Adel10 said:


> God freely gave me a choice to serve him or not. He did not force me to and put into law things that would force me to serve him or bow to him.
> We are not showing our Christian love to people by forcing our will and our laws on them. I believe we should be a tolerant society that respect all people. I am gonna end this argument-non-argument here. I am not serving two masters. I serve Jesus Christ. I know who God is. Because I have a difference of opinion does not mean I am less of a Christian. I will let God judge my hurt and you let him judge yours. Peace!
> 
> *1 Corinthians 5:12-13
> ...



You're doing something that is very dangerous.   You are using scripture to 'support' and 'protect' their sin.    You are using the words that you are a Christian to justify their lifestyle.  

satan did this very thing with scripture with Jesus when Him came from the 'Wilderness' after His 40 days and 40 nights of fasting and prayer.  

This is dangerous Adele, very dangerous.  For you are supporting what God does not advocate.   

I agree that we are not to 'force' what we believe upon others.  Yet this is exactly what the gay agenda is doing.  They have trespassed into a holy state which God has ordained between a man and a woman, and have demanded to take it as their own.   They are not innocent victims here.  They know exactly what they are doing.  The 'force' is coming from them; they are invading their lifestyles upon our children.  You can't turn the TV on to simply watch the news without seeing some type of same sex interaction. 

The Christians taking a stand for marriage are not in error.  'We' are simply fighting to protect what is God-given as ours.  gays have absolutely no rights to it.  It's God's, not theirs.   If nothing else, they are 'stealing' what does not belong to them.   

As a Christian, I either serve God all the way or no way.   We cannot be lukewarm.  To say that a gay civil union or marriage is okay is lukewarm.  

:Rose:  A rose without thorns...


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Poohbear said:


> God's response to this is these people (fornicators, adulterers, and homosexuals...among other habitual sinners) who continue in their sin with no repentance or remorse shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



    gay marriage is unrepented sin; for they are 'marrying', forming, establishing, sealing the sin -- without repentance.


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Guitarhero said:


> I'm not so good with acronyms...but I do recognize the Act.  How embarassing lol!



I'm not good with acronyms either...


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## Dellas (Mar 10, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> You're doing something that is very dangerous.   You are using scripture to 'support' and 'protect' their sin.    You are using the words that you are a Christian to justify their lifestyle.
> 
> satan did this very thing with scripture with Jesus when Him came from the 'Wilderness' after His 40 days and 40 nights of fasting and prayer.
> 
> ...




Deleted......

All sin is sin.....sin against the body by gluttony 
        ......sin against the body ....sexual sin

All sin esp. unrepentant sin will be judged. God does not need his people to assist.

I deleted my original post. 
I have never said homosexuality was not sin. We disagree on the rights of a Christian.  
God will Judge us all and I thank God for his kindness and mercy shown to me. We serve a sweet sweet God that loves all his Christian. I don't understand all his ways. I don't understand why he rewards the wayward son the same reward of a person who has worked faithfully. He counts them as all his children. It has never seen fair to me. 

Yes there is a Gay agenda. Gayness is a choice. I think everyone should back away from ALL agendas. 

Be blessed.


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Adel10 said:


> I am telling my truth and what I believe to be true. Do I believe there is a Gay agenda? Yes! I agree. Do I agree that calling their lifestyle a sin is hatred? No.
> 
> I believe that they should have rights to visit their love ones if someone get sick. I believe they should be able to share benefits with their loved ones. If we do not want them to have the same rights as us then we should stop taking their money.
> 
> ...



I wish you the same... :Rose:


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## Shimmie (Mar 10, 2011)

Adel10 said:


> Deleted......
> 
> All sin is sin.....sin against the body by gluttony
> ......sin against the body ....sexual sin
> ...



Respecting and acknowledging the edits in your post. :Rose:


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## Poohbear (Mar 11, 2011)

Shimmie said:


> gay marriage is unrepented sin; for they are 'marrying', forming, establishing, sealing the sin -- without repentance.



I just said that... ...plus, fornication before marriage and adulterous marriage is unrepented sin as well if they don't put an end to their sin.


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