# How do you describe a Christian?



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

So how do you?


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 14, 2009)

The Bible does this for us. 

The Bible says we will know Christians by their/our love. (St. John 13:35)
"By this shall all [men] know that you are My disciples, if you love one another [if you keep on showing love among yourselves]."


----------



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

True.  How do you distinguish someone who loves as being a Christian or not?




FoxyScholar said:


> The Bible does this for us.
> 
> The Bible says we will know Christians by their/our love. (St. John 13:35)
> "By this shall all [men] know that you are My disciples, if you love one another [if you keep on showing love among yourselves]."


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 14, 2009)

hairlove said:


> True. How do you distinguish someone who loves as being a Christian or not?


 
By what they DO.... their ACTIONS. THEIR FRUIT.


----------



## RavenMaven (Apr 14, 2009)

Someone that accepts the Lord as their savior.


----------



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

RavenMaven said:


> Someone that accepts the Lord as their savior.



Ok - how do you know if they have or not?  Should you have to ask?


----------



## blazingthru (Apr 14, 2009)

For me I know that they are christians by their consistency. No matter what happens they are consistent in their beliefs.  I love the story of Joseph he was mocked by his beliefs, what stood out to me is everyone knew what he believed every where he went. He was consistent. He is an excellent example as well as Daniel he was consistent, no matter the change he was steadfast and unbreakable.  both were alone. Joseph was alone in Egypt. Daniel was alone in Babylon. I have to go and ask for advice all the time whereas they kept what they were taught in their hearts and did not waver.


----------



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

Let me explain where I am coming from with this thread...

I've been thinking about this since a post in one of my threads got me going.  My brain never stops...

So, to be a Christian is someone who is saved, loves the Lord, puts God first...

But how do you know?  You look at their actions.

But there are a lot of "good" people in the world.  Does that mean they are Christians?

Even people who go to church every Sunday.  That doesn't make them a Christian.  I grew up going to church practically twice a week but I was not a Christian. I was a good person, yes, but a Christian, no.

When people look at me, do they consider me a Christian? I don't know. I hope so.  I try to display my Christianity in my actions...just who I am b/c I want to and try to honor God in everything I do.

In this same way, how am I to know if someone else is a Christian?

Musicians and singers accept awards all the time thanking God.  Does that make them a Christian? Because someone believes in God, does that make them a Christian?  If so, then my dating/courting pool is a lot larger than I thought.

I think way too much and thus, have probably thoroughly confused myself.

Maybe it has nothing to do with mind and comprehension but prayer? Asking God to reveal to me if the person is a Christian or not?  This is important as I need to develop discernment in order to meet my future husband.


----------



## firecracker (Apr 14, 2009)

There is no one answer for that question.  Chrisitians have all kinds of personalities, behavior, characters defects etc.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

By our love for God and allowing His love to show through us. 

I rarely have to say that I am a Christian.  Folks 'call me out'.   Somehow they just know and I've never said a word about Jesus.   Yet, they still know there's something 'different' about me.   

My Pastor says we have a 'non-verbal' language that speaks Jesus for itsself.    However, when describing a Christian, it's something about them, that you can just tell without saying one word.


----------



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Apr 14, 2009)

I think a christian is someone either raised in that faith or coming to accept the tenets of that faith.  There is also the distinguishment between an observant ("good") christian and a non-observant christian (lol "bad") and the dreaded lukewarm christian.  In G-d's house (physical house), many are present, the good, the bad, the believers, the unbelievers.  All are welcomed.  What they do with that homily?  That's the difference.  

I don't delve into who is saved or not as it's not something in my vocabulary.  G-d calls man to persevere until the end.  He is the only to give final salvation.  My comprehension and belief about it will most likely not fit the majority on this list.  But I think it's important to note that I don't describe a christian by that.   So, I guess my definition of christian is not necessarily of someone who demonstrates g-dly, kind and caring behavior - so do observant Jews and Muslims and folks from a variety of religions - as evidence of who will be saved in the end.  So, definitely someone who holds to the tenets of the faith, believes in it, professes it, is born into it, practices it.  Demonstration of it (agape) is probably proof in the pudding!!!  

BTW, your hair is marvelous!~!!


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

FoxyScholar said:


> The Bible does this for us.
> 
> The Bible says we will know Christians by their/our love. (St. John 13:35)
> "By this shall all [men] know that you are My disciples, if you love one another [if you keep on showing love among yourselves]."


Foxy, may I use you for an example?    

When I first joined this forum over 3 years ago, there was 'something' in your posts that I 'knew' who you were.    And this was over in the OT forum where you were "RR" back then.    You never said a Jesus, neither a God bless you, yet I just 'knew'.    

There was a peace that I felt, a 'kindred' spirit.   I just 'knew' and I was right.    I can also say the same about Pebbles, Nice & Wavy, Crlsweetie, Tasha, Supergirl, Queeny20 and many, many others.   Many others that I can list.   (I'm at work and typing fast between my job tasks).   

But there is something about a person when the Holy Spirit is flowing through them and you just 'know.'   

NOW on the other hand, there are those who said they were Christians and I said..........  



From the mess that comes out of their hearts, that God ain't neva' said or writ' ....


----------



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

You all have answered my question very well.  

Because I generally just "know" when someone is a Christian or not.  I don't know if it's a mind thing or a heart thing or a combination but generally speaking, I just know.  I started to think maybe that wasn't good enough.  But I see from your responses that that's exactly it.


----------



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> BTW, your hair is marvelous!~!!



Thank You.


----------



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> But there is something about a person when the Holy Spirit is flowing through them and you just 'know.'
> 
> NOW on the other hand, there are those who said they were Christians and I said..........
> 
> ...



This is it! I was hoping you'd chime in.  This is totally it.

We are not all perfect so I know we've all said things on here or elsewhere that we later realized did not reflect our Christianity.  However, I think the difference is just that -- *"we later realized" *-- and most likely confessed and repented.


----------



## Shimmie (Apr 14, 2009)

hairlove said:


> This is it! I was hoping you'd chime in. This is totally it.
> 
> We are not all perfect so I know we've all said things on here or elsewhere that we later realized did not reflect our Christianity. However, I think the difference is just that -- *"we later realized" *-- and most likely confessed and repented.




Hairlove, I've said a 'mess' of stuff, here, there, everywhere.   Yet God in all of His love and mercy still wanted to shine His light through me.    

I've even 'typoed' His name a few times.      :blush3:   Yet, He loved me anyway.


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Apr 14, 2009)

Hey HairLove, 

Have you ever read the book of James and really studied it? 

Its known as the How-To book of Christian life. Its only 5 chapters. of course there's more (much, much more) but you seem like a practical person (like myself) and practical people need actual, tangle actions to gain understanding sometimes not just ambigious words to go by.


----------



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Hey HairLove,
> 
> Have you ever read the book of James and really studied it?
> 
> Its known as the How-To book of Christian life. Its only 5 chapters. of course there's more (much, much more) but you seem like a practical person (like myself) and practical people need actual, tangle actions to gain understanding sometimes not just ambigious words to go by.



Pretty - I think Dr. David Jeremiah just started this book two weeks ago.  I listened to the first one and have last weeks' message on dvr.  I'm going to watch it this week.  Thank you for sharing that.


----------



## Aggie (Apr 14, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> By our love for God and allowing His love to show through us.
> 
> I rarely have to say that I am a Christian. Folks 'call me out'. Somehow they just know and I've never said a word about Jesus. Yet, they still know there's something 'different' about me.
> 
> My Pastor says *we have a 'non-verbal' language that speaks Jesus for itsself.* However, when describing a Christian, it's something about them, that you can just tell without saying one word.


 
I totally agree with the bolded. When we spend time getting to know, and I mean really getting to know who Jesus is, when we become intimately in tuned with the Person and Character of the Holy Spirit so much so that "the two become one" in a manner of speaking, our lives reflect HIM through and through. 

*And if we reflect HIM*, others cannot do anything but know that there is something very different about us and that we are Christians. They will see HIS reflection of love looking back at them in the form of the fruits of HIS Spirit that Paul talked about in Galatians 5...love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. These fruits speak volumes if consistently found in the life of the Christian and people will know him/her by these fruits. 

At the same time, this life of the Christian however, cannot be filled with the works of the flesh - adultery, uncleanness, wrath, strife, fornication, idolatry, heresies, emulations, witchcraft, hatred, seditions, variance, envyings, murders, revellings, drunkenness, desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, gossiping, backbiting, etc. 

If these fleshly things are found in our lives with any degree of frequency, it is almost a natural deduction to assume that we are not in tuned with the Holy Spirit and our lives does not reflect HIM. 

My desire always is for others to know me by my fruits, that I am a Christain and that I will not have to tell others, but they can see it, sense it, hear it (meekness), feel it (love) by the way I live my life "before" HIM and "for" HIM. I still have a loooooooooooooong way to go though.


----------



## hurricane (Apr 14, 2009)

The person must accept and confess the Lord Jesus with their mouth. Next they must live a righteous life. Not perfect but doing what is right. Especially when someone is not looking. 

There are many people who do good things but the Bible says that we are not saved by works. Example: Oprah. She has denied that Jesus is the only way to God ( the Father ). Oh, what great works she and many have done but not to the glory of God. Some credit new age, scientology, Buddha. It hurts me to see this happening because they have become blind.


----------



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

That is an AWESOME description!!! Thank you for sharing.  I have a LOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go also but I am not giving up.  Still working on it and always will. 



Aggie said:


> I totally agree with the bolded. When we spend time getting to know, and I mean really getting to know who Jesus is, when we become intimately in tuned with the Person and Character of the Holy Spirit so much so that "the two become one" in a manner of speaking, our lives reflect HIM through and through.
> 
> *And if we reflect HIM*, others cannot do anything but know that there is something very different about us and that we are Christians. They will see HIS reflection of love looking back at them in the form of the fruits of HIS Spirit that Paul talked about in Galatians 5...love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. These fruits speak volumes if consistently found in the life of the Christian and people will know him/her by these fruits.
> 
> ...


----------



## BeautifulFlower (Apr 14, 2009)

Gimme that hair Hairlove...


----------



## inthepink (Apr 14, 2009)

prettyfaceANB said:


> Gimme that hair Hairlove...



Ok here you go.... Psych!


----------



## PaperClip (Apr 15, 2009)

Shimmie said:


> Foxy, may I use you for an example?
> 
> When I first joined this forum over 3 years ago, there was 'something' in your posts that I 'knew' who you were. And this was over in the OT forum where you were "RR" back then. You never said a Jesus, neither a God bless you, yet I just 'knew'.
> 
> ...


 
Oohh myyy.... 

I am sincerely humbled.... 

To God be the Glory!!! Even when I was clownin' a HOT MESS He still covers me....

Amen....

and Dear Big Sis, I am humbled that you would say this....


----------



## divya (Apr 15, 2009)

A Christian is someone who accepts the Lord Jesus Christ.  Evidence of their acceptance is seen in the way a person lives his or her life, living up to the light God has revealed to them.

*Matt. 7:16 *-_ Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit._


----------



## PikiNiki (May 22, 2009)

Don't forget ladies. The bible said that you must hear the gospel, believe, AND be baptised. Many leave that out for some reason. Baptism cleanses you of your old self and you become renewed in Christ through emersion.


----------



## inthepink (May 22, 2009)

PikiNiki said:


> Don't forget ladies. The bible said that you must hear the gospel, believe, AND be baptised. Many leave that out for some reason. Baptism cleanses you of your old self and you become renewed in Christ through emersion.



Well, you don't have to be baptized to be saved.  If you believe and accept, then you are saved and upon death will go to heaven.  To be baptized is a commitment or profession of faith.  Christians "should" be baptized but say for example, they accept Jesus in 2009 and don't get baptized till 2010 b/c their church only does baptisms (hypothetically) once a year, they are still a Christian during that time period.  Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (May 22, 2009)

True enough.  But by that description, I know a lot of folks from other religions that are a lot more "christian" than those professing the faith.


----------



## inthepink (May 22, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> True enough.  But by that description, I know a lot of folks from other religions that are a lot more "christian" than those professing the faith.



There are a lot of people who are "good" people who aren't Christians either.  erplexed


----------



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (May 23, 2009)

hairlove said:


> There are a lot of people who are "good" people who aren't Christians either.  erplexed




I get your point but I was mostly speaking toward those who live a more "christian" life than those actually professing the faith.  It doesn't go unnoticed by G-d, who has written the knowledge or "law" of good and bad on every man's heart.  There are no excuses.  I believe that everyone will be judged according to his understanding and knowledge of the truth to which he was exposed and upheld.  

The term "christian" can be ethnic and not an indicator of behavior.  G-d gives salvation so none of us knows who will and will not get into heaven.  Any of us there yet?  We don't know.  Perseverance until the end, which is actually what He told us to do.  I know that the scripture talks of certainty, but it also talks indirectly to uncertainly (only He is omnipotent, omniscient, omnispresent and it's His judgements as sovereign)...which forces us to live the good path until the end, prayer and penance...if we care about about our future existence.  I know those who don't.   But which of us know exactly when, where and how G-d works His works in individual lives (christian and not) and even at the moment of death?  What is that scripture about being surprised who and who didn't make it to heaven?


----------



## topsyturvy86 (May 23, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> I get your point but I was mostly speaking toward those who live a more "christian" life than those actually professing the faith. It doesn't go unnoticed by G-d, who has written the knowledge or "law" of good and bad on every man's heart. There are no excuses. I believe that everyone will be judged according to his understanding and knowledge of the truth to which he was exposed and upheld.
> 
> The term "christian" can be ethnic and not an indicator of behavior. G-d gives salvation so none of us knows who will and will not get into heaven. Any of us there yet? We don't know. Perseverance until the end, which is actually what He told us to do. I know that the scripture talks of certainty, but it also talks indirectly to uncertainly (only He is omnipotent, omniscient, omnispresent and it's His judgements as sovereign)...which forces us to live the good path until the end, prayer and penance...if we care about about our future existence. I know those who don't. But which of us know exactly when, where and how G-d works His works in individual lives (christian and not) and even at the moment of death? What is that scripture about being surprised who and who didn't make it to heaven?


 
GV, Christianity is definitely not ethnic. It is a choice and should be an indicator of behaviour (as perfectly explained by Aggie and Shimmie) but I agree that in some cases it isn’t. I also agree that it’s not our place to point fingers and what not but the bible is clear on salvation though and how we can't earn it through our works, goodness/living a good life or self righteousness. All we have to do is confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead and we will be saved. 

_"4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. 
 5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." (Romans 10)_


----------



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (May 23, 2009)

topsyturvy86 said:


> GV, Christianity is definitely not ethnic. It is a choice and should be an indicator of behaviour (as perfectly explained by Aggie and Shimmie) but I agree that in some cases it isn’t. I also agree that it’s not our place to point fingers and what not but the bible is clear on salvation though and how we can't earn it through our works, goodness/living a good life or self righteousness. All we have to do is confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead and we will be saved.
> 
> _"4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
> 5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." (Romans 10)_



You're talking about the decision to walk the christian faith way.  There is certainly a christian ethnicity.  It exists.  In older christian traditions, people converted to the faith through a series of teachings over time.  I don't think this is done in prostestantism, though.  In countries where there are mainly Jews, Muslims and Christians, those born to people of the churches are ethnic christians.  True ethnic Lebanese are Maronites or other sects of the universal church....thus, christians.  Not all people are faithful to the church.  That's what I was referring to.  Like I said, "behavior."  It certainly doesn't mean that people born to christian families are actually christian in behavior.  Faith without WORKS IS DEAD.  James 2:20.  Thanks for the scripture on Romans...I didn't know where it was.

Disclaimer:  just to make sure no one thinks I was pointing righteous fingers at Hairlove...it was for the sake of discussion and not in any way aimed at her at all.


----------



## inthepink (May 23, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> You're talking about the decision to walk the christian faith way.  There is certainly a christian ethnicity.  It exists.  In older christian traditions, people converted to the faith through a series of teachings over time.  I don't think this is done in prostestantism, though.  In countries where there are mainly Jews, Muslims and Christians, those born to people of the churches are ethnic christians.  True ethnic Lebanese are Maronites or other sects of the universal church....thus, christians.  Not all people are faithful to the church.  That's what I was referring to.  Like I said, "behavior."  It certainly doesn't mean that people born to christian families are actually christian in behavior.  Faith without WORKS IS DEAD.  James 2:20.  Thanks for the scripture on Romans...I didn't know where it was.
> 
> *Disclaimer:  just to make sure no one thinks I was pointing righteous fingers at Hairlove...it was for the sake of discussion and not in any way aimed at her at all.*



I didn't take it that way so no worries on my part. I just didn't understand what you meant.  Got it now though.


----------



## PikiNiki (May 28, 2009)

hairlove said:


> Well, you don't have to be baptized to be saved. If you believe and accept, then you are saved and upon death will go to heaven. To be baptized is a commitment or profession of faith. Christians "should" be baptized but say for example, they accept Jesus in 2009 and don't get baptized till 2010 b/c their church only does baptisms (hypothetically) once a year, they are still a Christian during that time period. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


 Hey hairlove. The bible clearly states the baptism is absolutely neccessary. Please refer to Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, I Peter 3:21, and Romans 6:3&4 just to name a few.


----------



## inthepink (May 28, 2009)

I respect your belief but I believe that we are saved by grace alone.



> http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-1Peter-3-21.html
> 
> *Question: "Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?"
> 
> ...


----------



## Browntem (May 28, 2009)

Just thought I'd add my two cents
I think a Christian is someone who constantly strives to emulate christ in all aspects of life from how you speak, to how you care for others, to how you make decisions.  I believe that following God's greatest commandments loving God with all your heart, mind and soul and loving your neighbor as yourself are the answers to how a true christian should be.  I believe that if you do all these things along with fasting and prayer, you are a christian.  I often wonder why some Christians place more emphasis on the superficial definitions of what it means to be a christian for example whether a person drinks or smokes  or goes to the club.  I am by no means saying that christian should do any of these things because to be friends with the world is enmity with God.  But i think focusing on these superficial standards actually misses the true message of Jesus Christ.  We should pray for the spirit of discernment to decide whether a person is of Christ or is of the enemy.  God hates the double minded man and we need to be watchful of these types of people.  I think that it's time for Christians to stop being lukewarm and start embracing the true meaning of Christianity.  So as far as what it means to be a christian.  I think we should look to the 4 Gospels to see how Jesus lived and we should constantly try to be just like him


----------



## topsyturvy86 (May 28, 2009)

Browntem said:


> Just thought I'd add my two cents
> I think a Christian is someone who constantly strives to emulate christ in all aspects of life from how you speak, to how you care for others, to how you make decisions. I believe that following God's greatest commandments loving God with all your heart, mind and soul and loving your neighbor as yourself are the answers to how a true christian should be. I believe that if you do all these things along with fasting and prayer, you are a christian. I often wonder why some Christians place more emphasis on the superficial definitions of what it means to be a christian for example whether a person drinks or smokes or goes to the club. I am by no means saying that christian should do any of these things because to be friends with the world is enmity with God. But i think focusing on these superficial standards actually misses the true message of Jesus Christ. We should pray for the spirit of discernment to decide whether a person is of Christ or is of the enemy. God hates the double minded man and we need to be watchful of these types of people. I think that it's time for Christians to stop being lukewarm and start embracing the true meaning of Christianity. So as far as what it means to be a christian. I think we should look to the 4 Gospels to see how Jesus lived and we should constantly try to be just like him


 
*Thanks* I agree


----------



## inthepink (May 28, 2009)

Browntem said:


> Just thought I'd add my two cents
> I think a Christian is someone who constantly strives to emulate christ in all aspects of life from how you speak, to how you care for others, to how you make decisions.  I believe that following God's greatest commandments loving God with all your heart, mind and soul and loving your neighbor as yourself are the answers to how a true christian should be.  I believe that if you do all these things along with fasting and prayer, you are a christian.  I often wonder why some Christians place more emphasis on the superficial definitions of what it means to be a christian for example whether a person drinks or smokes  or goes to the club.  I am by no means saying that christian should do any of these things because to be friends with the world is enmity with God.  But i think focusing on these superficial standards actually misses the true message of Jesus Christ.  We should pray for the spirit of discernment to decide whether a person is of Christ or is of the enemy.  God hates the double minded man and we need to be watchful of these types of people.  I think that it's time for Christians to stop being lukewarm and start embracing the true meaning of Christianity.  So as far as what it means to be a christian.  I think we should look to the 4 Gospels to see how Jesus lived and we should constantly try to be just like him



Thank you for sharing your two - cents!!! It is worth a lot more! I think I even said further up that I figured it out too - to be Christian is to be Christ-like.  It's as simple as that - or not so simple depending on how you look at it.  

ETA:  Of course, this is assuming you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior!


----------



## Laela (May 29, 2009)

A Christian is a person who loves God and follow his Commandments (His Word) and apply the principles in the Bible to their everyday lives. They fast. They pray. They love others, not by mere words but by their actions. They talk to God and acknowledge his presence any time because they have a one-on-one relationship withhim. They have His Perfect Knowledge, which guides them in everything they do or say and still can be themselves, the way he intented them to be. They also have the Holy Spirit in them, to guide or rebuke them in their actions. They have a discerning spirit to help them deal with adversity or attacks. They're not so "dumb deep" as to think they are above others or they can't make mistakes or sin. They recognize the error of their ways and constantly seek his forgiveness and forgive others as well. They are loyal to their Faith in Jesus Christ. They know that their earthly posessions are merely Blessings - a byproduct of seeking him and his Righteousness first and putting him above all others. They are not concerned with the World System and are not in people bondage. They will appear "odd" or "peculiar" or "strange" to others who do not have a relationship with God. They also have the ability to draw the attention of non-Believers without saying a word. 

These (and other) fruits are evident in the life of a true "Christ"ian, IMHO.


----------



## inthepink (May 29, 2009)

Laela said:


> A Christian is a person who loves God and follow his Commandments (His Word) and apply the principles in the Bible to their everyday lives. They fast. They pray. They love others, not by mere words but by their actions. They talk to God and acknowledge his presence any time because they have a one-on-one relationship withhim. They have His Perfect Knowledge, which guides them in everything they do or say and still can be themselves, the way he intented them to be. They also have the Holy Spirit in them, to guide or rebuke them in their actions. They have a discerning spirit to help them deal with adversity or attacks. They're not so "dumb deep" as to think they are above others or they can't make mistakes or sin. They recognize the error of their ways and constantly seek his forgiveness and forgive others as well. They are loyal to their Faith in Jesus Christ. They know that their earthly posessions are merely Blessings - a byproduct of seeking him and his Righteousness first and putting him above all others. They are not concerned with the World System and are not in people bondage. They will appear "odd" or "peculiar" or "strange" to others who do not have a relationship with God. They also have the ability to draw the attention of non-Believers without saying a word.
> 
> These (and other) fruits are evident in the life of a true "Christ"ian, IMHO.



Great description.  Thank you for sharing!

I guess we are all aspiring to reach -- Christlike status.

I am still working through a LOT of the things you mention!


----------



## aribell (May 29, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> True enough. But by that description, I know a lot of folks from other religions that are a lot more "christian" than those professing the faith.


 
So true, and I know many people like this.  The most generous and kind person I know personally, out of believers and non-believers, is an atheist.  There are many more like him.  If we just define a Christian by outward acts, a lot of believers would be kicked out and non-believers pulled in.  God's law is definitely written on _everyone's_ heart and some people tune in better than others.

But what makes someone a Christian is submitting to Christ's lordship over their life and living in _obedience _to him.  Not just trying to be a good or nice person, but letting go of their will and living out of obedience to God's commands.  Out of all the non-Christian friends I have who don't believe in drinking, smoking, fornicating (yes, I have non-Christian friends--an agnostic, too--who don't believe in sex outside of marriage), etc., there's always some point at which their attitude/behavior doesn't line up with Scripture.  And the difference between a Christian and someone who's not a Christian is that the Christian submits to what God says, and the non-Christian follows his own will and does what is right in his own eyes.  

We're all on a journey.  Some of us are spiritual babies who haven't really been sanctified at all but will get there, some are far advanced in the faith, and some in between.  You should be able to know a fellow Christian when you know you can have _fellowship_ with them, that if you wanted to talk about God's will and praise him, and learn about him, that you could do those things together, that you would be in agreement.


----------



## inthepink (May 29, 2009)

nicola.kirwan said:


> So true, and I know many people like this.  The most generous and kind person I know personally, out of believers and non-believers, is an atheist.  There are many more like him.  If we just define a Christian by outward acts, a lot of believers would be kicked out and non-believers pulled in.  God's law is definitely written on _everyone's_ heart and some people tune in better than others.
> 
> But what makes someone a Christian is submitting to Christ's lordship over their life and living in _obedience _to him.  Not just trying to be a good or nice person, but letting go of their will and living out of obedience to God's commands.  Out of all the non-Christian friends I have who don't believe in drinking, smoking, fornicating (yes, I have non-Christian friends--an agnostic, too--who don't believe in sex outside of marriage), etc., there's always some point at which their attitude/behavior doesn't line up with Scripture.  *And the difference between a Christian and someone who's not a Christian is that the Christian submits to what God says, and the non-Christian follows his own will and does what is right in his own eyes.  *
> 
> We're all on a journey.  Some of us are spiritual babies who haven't really been sanctified at all but will get there, some are far advanced in the faith, and some in between.  *You should be able to know a fellow Christian when you know you can have fellowship with them, that if you wanted to talk about God's will and praise him, and learn about him, that you could do those things together, that you would be in agreement.*



This is amazing and enlightening! Thank you for sharing this!  It is a great comparison and how to think of things.


----------



## aribell (May 29, 2009)

Okay, I just want to share this story about recognizing a fellow believer.

A few years ago I spontaneously took a train trip from Pennsylvania to Maine by myself (a great trip, btw).  For some reason, it was important to me to meet a fellow believer there, and I prayed that that would happen.  I don't even know what made me pray the prayer, but I really wanted to.  Anyway, when I got to the Maine train station, there was a shuttle to take travelers to the coast.  The driver was this white guy with tattoos covering everything but his face, listening to all this hip hop music, talked a certain way, etc.  Anyway, my first thought about him was he "looked" like a bad guy.  Everything about him just said "trouble," but there was something about him that made me pause.  So, we get to the destination and I don't have any cash on me to pay.  He offers to drive me to the ATM.  When he's telling me that he'll take me there, he's staring at me in a funny way, and I was thinking, "What is up with this guy?  Does he want my number or something?"   But after I paid him and thought about it later, what kept getting at me was that in spite of all the externals, he seemed to have this gentleness about him, and I just said to myself "I bet he's a Christian."

So, we part ways and I have my vacation for a few days.  When I'm set to leave and wait to take the shuttle back to the train, it's the same guy.  I'm the only one on the bus and we start chatting.  Somehow we get to the fact that I was attending a Christian college and when I said that, he was like, "You're a Christian?!  I knew it!  When I dropped you off at the ATM I just knew you were a believer!"  We were both really excited and joyful about it and we just started talking and fellowshipping--about Jesus, denominations, the Bible, ministry, everything.  He told me how he used to be addicted to drugs and had recently gotten out of prison.  He told me about the Jamaican girl he loved and their daughter, and how she was the one to get him into church.  He also told me that when he was still living his old life, he started getting all these religious tattoos--ones of Jesus, crosses, he even got a Bible verse from James tattooed on him, even though at the time it meant absolutely nothing to him.  But his tattoos became prophetic, of how he would come to believe and follow Christ.  The shuttle ride was like an hour and a half, and the other passengers who got on probably thought we were nuts, but it was sooo spiritually uplifting. 

When we parted ways, he gave me a big hug and a copy of this book on the charismatic gifts of the Spirit.   I'm so glad the Lord answered that prayer.  Anyway, when you meet another believer, you should be able to tell!


----------



## inthepink (May 30, 2009)

Nicola - That's a really amazing story!  Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## inthepink (May 30, 2009)

I came across this while look at other things on the net 



> http://www.christiandatingservice.com/single_christians.html
> 
> *What is a Christian?*
> *
> ...



I left additional parts in because you just never know who may be reading this thread.  

To be able to discern if someone has a personal relationship with God will be important in my finding a husband.  This has been a very enlightening thread!

Thanks ladies!


----------



## PikiNiki (May 31, 2009)

hairlove said:


> I respect your belief but I believe that we are saved by grace alone.


 Hey hairlove After carefully reading your response and the author's text, we've still reached a cross road unfortunately due to the content of the biblical scriptures. I consider the bible to be THE blueprint of which we should govern our lives; specifcally the new testament. The author at one point makes a reference to an example in the old testament. Once Jesus died on the cross, the mosaic law became obscelete so to speak, in terms of how we would be judged by God. While I know that lessons from the old testament are valuable for example's sake in some contexts, it can tend to be confusing to new testament Christians (us). Furthermore, the only examples of the Holy Spirit being poured on indiviuals w/out baptism was in Acts 10, on the Gentiles, and Acts 11, the Jews. Peter heard them speak in tounges declaring the greatness of God. Please see Acts 10:45-48. They were then in fact commanded to be baptised. The Jews were upset with Peter as a result Acts 11. In verse 14, there is the second and final example of the Holy Spirit being poured on the Jews. Each and every other example of salvation in the new testament has been inclusive of baptism. Additionally, take a look at James 2:24. It says that man is justified by works, and NOT by faith alone. I'm a bit bothered by the author's implication that baptism is nothing more than an optional, pointless, ritual that merely serves as some outwardly expression of our commitment to God to others. This is what is frightening about "religious" people subjectively deciding what is or isn't "important" in God's blueprint. The bible is treated as an all-you-can-eat buffet. People typically treat themselves to what they like, and omit the things they don't; consequently, denominationalism (a whole other story). Finally, your initial response to me indicated that you believe in "once saved, always saved" 'til death. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That would be Utopia for most, because no one would be held accountable once they've been saved, and sin would be a "free for all." I'm a Christian, but I know that if I adopted this attitude, I would bust hell wide open just as fast as a non-Christian. Omission is a dangerous thing. Ever wonder why in the same book, chapter, and verse God commands us to take the Lord's supper and give an offering EVERY first day of the week? The vast majority of churches require you to take the Lord's supper on the first Sunday ONLY, yet, they pass that collection plate each Sunday like clockwork. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude what the motivation is here. Just one of the billions of examples of the "a' la carte" mentality. In conclusion, in spite of our polar differences here on this issue, I can definitely respect what appears to be your tenacity for God, as you are active on these threads.


----------



## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (May 31, 2009)

*Mat 5:17* Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfill.
*Mat 5:18* For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
*Mat 5:19* Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
*Mat 5:20* For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven. (ASV) 


The Church is built upon the Law just like Judaism, written and oral tradition handed down from Moses.  The "Law" has not been changed...at all.  The crux of the law is this:

I   I am the Lord your G-d who has taken you out of the land of Egypt.
II    You shall have no other gods but me
III  You shall not take the name of the Lord your G-d in vain.
IV You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
V  Honor your mother and father.
VI  You shall not murder.
VII You shall not commit adultery.
VIII You shall not steal.  
IX IYou shall not bear false witness.
X You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.


I think that part of Matthew is little understood.  If the Church got rid of the crux of the "Law," it would have no basis to judge good and evil according to a messianic tradition.


----------



## PikiNiki (Jun 2, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> *Mat 5:17* Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfill.
> *Mat 5:18* For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
> *Mat 5:19* Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
> *Mat 5:20* For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven. (ASV)
> ...


 Hello, GV. The point of my response was in no way intended to communicate that we should "get rid of" the 10 commandments, for those SAME principles are duplicated in the new covenent. The old covenant was appropriate for THAT time (pre-Christ) due to the fact that the earliest Christians had no other laws by which they would be judged. When Jesus died on the cross, the old covenant became void and the new covenant became effective immediately. To continue living by the old covenant beyond that point is essentially saying that the Lord died in vain. Galatians 5:1-4 vividly makes this point as it states: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Here God is saying Christ freed us from the old covenant. You shall profit nothing by continuing to practice old covenant laws (circumcision) because if you do, you have to in it's entirety (animal sacrifice included). Those who choose to continue these practices are "fallen from grace." I don't know about you, but I'm glad Christ freed us from a host of things in the old covenant, specifically animal sacrifice. Hebrews 8:6-13 goes even further:"But now had he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second..." This is further supported by Hebrews 10:9, and Romans 7:1-4. I know that the bible is "fool-proof." I simply mean that it is far too clear, and provides far too many examples of consistent instruction for us to misinterpret unknowing or willingly. At the end of the day, no matter what our "reasons" are, it remains the tool by which we all will be judged.


----------



## divya (Jun 2, 2009)

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:


> *Mat 5:17* Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfill.
> *Mat 5:18* For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
> *Mat 5:19* Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
> *Mat 5:20* For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven. (ASV)
> ...



Amen! John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


----------



## inthepink (Jun 2, 2009)

PikiNiki said:


> Hey hairlove After carefully reading your response and the author's text, we've still reached a cross road unfortunately due to the content of the biblical scriptures. I consider the bible to be THE blueprint of which we should govern our lives; specifcally the new testament. The author at one point makes a reference to an example in the old testament. Once Jesus died on the cross, the mosaic law became obscelete so to speak, in terms of how we would be judged by God. While I know that lessons from the old testament are valuable for example's sake in some contexts, it can tend to be confusing to new testament Christians (us). Furthermore, the only examples of the Holy Spirit being poured on indiviuals w/out baptism was in Acts 10, on the Gentiles, and Acts 11, the Jews. Peter heard them speak in tounges declaring the greatness of God. Please see Acts 10:45-48. They were then in fact commanded to be baptised. The Jews were upset with Peter as a result Acts 11. In verse 14, there is the second and final example of the Holy Spirit being poured on the Jews. Each and every other example of salvation in the new testament has been inclusive of baptism. Additionally, take a look at James 2:24. It says that man is justified by works, and NOT by faith alone. I'm a bit bothered by the author's implication that baptism is nothing more than an optional, pointless, ritual that merely serves as some outwardly expression of our commitment to God to others. This is what is frightening about "religious" people subjectively deciding what is or isn't "important" in God's blueprint. The bible is treated as an all-you-can-eat buffet. People typically treat themselves to what they like, and omit the things they don't; consequently, denominationalism (a whole other story). *Finally, your initial response to me indicated that you believe in "once saved, always saved" 'til death. Please correct me if I'm wrong. *That would be Utopia for most, because no one would be held accountable once they've been saved, and sin would be a "free for all." I'm a Christian, but I know that if I adopted this attitude, I would bust hell wide open just as fast as a non-Christian. Omission is a dangerous thing. Ever wonder why in the same book, chapter, and verse God commands us to take the Lord's supper and give an offering EVERY first day of the week? The vast majority of churches require you to take the Lord's supper on the first Sunday ONLY, yet, they pass that collection plate each Sunday like clockwork. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude what the motivation is here. Just one of the billions of examples of the "a' la carte" mentality. In conclusion, in spite of our polar differences here on this issue, I can definitely respect what appears to be your tenacity for God, as you are active on these threads.




In no way did I mean "We are saved by grace alone" to equal "Once saved, always saved."  (Is that even what you meant? Cuz no, I never connected those two.)

I am not able to completely understand what you've written but I still stand by that we are saved by grace alone.  It's what I've always been taught and what I believe as based upon what I've learned from the bible and teachers.

Anyways, I respect you for standing by your own beliefs.  

ETA: Just wanted to say one more thing that could possibly put us on the same page - I would say that once someone submits their life to God, they would WANT to be baptized as well as do other "good" things.  I just don't believe that you have to be baptized in order to be considered saved.  Some people just may not have been convicted on that yet (i.e. someone who was baptized as a child.) 

Ok, I'll leave it at that.


----------



## divya (Jun 3, 2009)

hairlove said:


> In no way did I mean "We are saved by grace alone" to equal "Once saved, always saved."  (Is that even what you meant? Cuz no, I never connected those two.)
> 
> I am not able to completely understand what you've written but I still stand by that we are saved by grace alone.  It's what I've always been taught and what I believe as based upon what I've learned from the bible and teachers.
> 
> ...



Well said...agree completely.


----------

