# Masturbation and the Single Christian



## IntelligenceisBeautiful (May 6, 2005)

Ladies,

thinking about the abstinence challenge, I want to know if masturbation is a sin, I can't seem to find any reference to it in the Bible.  Being abstinent to me since I'm just beginning is HARD, sometimes I get sexual urges etc. but I'm trying to stay strong.  Am I suppose to go cold turkey and say no to all things sexual or is pleasuring oneself ok?
Abstinent beginner wants to know
thanks


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## LondonDiva (May 6, 2005)

I think it's gonna be a big fat no to that one too as you have to counjure up sexual scenarios in your mind in order to get to the big O.


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## Kikootie (May 6, 2005)

Lets think about this. There is a feeling that comes from sex. You get aroused and all of that. With masturbation, you lend you thoughts, eyes, and ears to things that cause you to have those same feelings that you would if you were getting ready to or have sex. It would be those things that God does not approve of because you are no longer thinking of those things that are pure, of good report, etc that God commands us to think on in his word. Masturbation is like a short-cut to sex or takes the place of sex just so a person can quench those feelings and experience the outcome of sex. Instant gratification is the word. Is God involved in this? No. If you examine yourself when you want to masturbate or have sex, your mind probably is not even thinking about God. You gotta cast those thoughts and imaginations down.


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## sugaplum (May 6, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> I think it's gonna be a big fat no to that one too as you have to counjure up sexual scenarios in your mind in order to get to the big O.


ITA LondonDiva. 

Since I've given my life completly over to God, I no longer have the urge or the need to.  Resist the urge with God on your side and all things are possible through Christ.   And say to yourself "Does this activity glorify God?"  

Psalms 94:11 - the LORD, knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath. 

We are to keep His temple Holy at *ALL* times.

To me, IMHO,Not only masturbation, but anal sex & oral sex does nothing to glorify God either!!


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## LondonDiva (May 6, 2005)

What we can't even do oral when we are married.


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## sugaplum (May 6, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> What we can't even do oral when we are married.



This was just my opinon, LondonDiva.  It's up to the person weither they feel comfortable in doing that or not.  I'm just saying, in my opinon, married or not, it just doesn't glorify God and I don't see how it would. 

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?   

1 Corinthians 6:19 - Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own;   

Just a question for everyone (not to change the subject) doesn't anal sex, oral sex, masturbation, etc. fall under sexual immorality??


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## sprungonhairboards (May 6, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> This was just my opinon, LondonDiva.  It's up to the person weither they feel comfortable in doing that or not.  I'm just saying, in my opinon, married or not, it just doesn't glorify God and I don't see how it would.
> 
> Just a question for everyone (not to change the subject) doesn't anal sex, oral sex, masturbation, etc. fall under sexual immorality??



How? So what else is immoral in your book? Women on top? toys? Do you believe people should even touch each other during sex? I'm just sayin   

Please anyone, show me scripture that supports HOW we are supposed to have sex.


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## Honeyhips (May 6, 2005)

I thought the marraige bed was undefiled. 


			
				sugaplum said:
			
		

> This was just my opinon, LondonDiva. It's up to the person weither they feel comfortable in doing that or not. I'm just saying, in my opinon, married or not, it just doesn't glorify God and I don't see how it would.
> 
> 1 Corinthians 3:16 - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
> 
> ...


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## LondonDiva (May 6, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I thought the marraige bed was undefiled.


 
HH what does undefiled mean?


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## sugaplum (May 6, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> How? So what else is immoral in your book? Women on top? toys? Do you believe people should even touch each other during sex? I'm just sayin
> 
> Please anyone, show me scripture that supports HOW we are supposed to have sex.



No, I don't have a scripture for this.   Before I read the Bible, I always pray and ask God to open up my heart, my mind and my eyes to understanding His Word and to reveal things to me.

Toys...??  Man-made devices that provide sexual stimulation.... Hmmmmmm.  I see a lot wrong with this. 

I didn't want what I said to turn into a debate over what my Holy Spirit revealed to me.


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## good2uuuu (May 6, 2005)

Paul states that the marriage bed is undefiled (I'll have to find the text later, unless someone beats me to it). If you are married and you both agree on what so do sexually and you are not harming each other, then it's all good.  God created us with these bodies and feelings and urges that are designed to enhance and bring joy to our marriage experiences. If He did not want  us to fully enjoy marriage, then I don't believe He would have created us this way.  There are too many people of various faiths and upbringings who teach us to be ashamed of our bodies and sex. It's sad because in the end so many are robbed of God's true purpose and fulfilllment.  That said, I don't get the anal sex thing, but that's just me.


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## sugaplum (May 6, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> HH what does undefiled mean?



Yes, HH I'd like to know more.


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## good2uuuu (May 6, 2005)

Kikootie said:
			
		

> Lets think about this. There is a feeling that comes from sex. You get aroused and all of that. With masturbation, you lend you thoughts, eyes, and ears to things that cause you to have those same feelings that you would if you were getting ready to or have sex. It would be those things that God does not approve of because you are no longer thinking of those things that are pure, of good report, etc that God commands us to think on in his word. Masturbation is like a short-cut to sex or takes the place of sex just so a person can quench those feelings and experience the outcome of sex. Instant gratification is the word. Is God involved in this? No. If you examine yourself when you want to masturbate or have sex, your mind probably is not even thinking about God. You gotta cast those thoughts and imaginations down.


 
ITA! I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## sugaplum (May 6, 2005)

good2uuuu said:
			
		

> Paul states that the marriage bed is undefiled (I'll have to find the text later, unless someone beats me to it). If you are married and you both agree on what so do sexually and you are not harming each other, then it's all good.  God created us with these bodies and feelings and urges that are designed to enhance and bring joy to our marriage experiences. If He did not want  us to fully enjoy marriage, then I don't believe He would have created us this way.  There are too many people of various faiths and upbringings who teach us to be ashamed of our bodies and sex. It's sad because in the end so many are robbed of God's true purpose and fulfilllment.  That said, I don't get the anal sex thing, but that's just me.



Ok. So it's like no holds-barred when we are in the bed if we both agree?   Just wondering if this is what you're saying?  I'm learning a lot from this Christianty Forum.


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## bludacious (May 6, 2005)

Not knocking anyone's opinion but this is why we should read the bible for ourselves.  People can tell you that the bible says this....., the bible says that....!!!  People can tell you anything.  But if we read the bible for ourselves, we can interpret the meaning for ourselves and we will know what the bible states!  I feel in my opinion, that the bible has been misinterpreted by many!  Again, this is not pointed toward anyone.  This is just MY OPINION!


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## bludacious (May 6, 2005)

good2uuuu said:
			
		

> Paul states that the marriage bed is undefiled (I'll have to find the text later, unless someone beats me to it). If you are married and you both agree on what so do sexually and you are not harming each other, then it's all good. God created us with these bodies and feelings and urges that are designed to enhance and bring joy to our marriage experiences. If He did not want us to fully enjoy marriage, then I don't believe He would have created us this way. There are too many people of various faiths and upbringings who teach us to be ashamed of our bodies and sex. It's sad because in the end so many are robbed of God's true purpose and fulfilllment. That said, I don't get the anal sex thing, but that's just me.


 
*Hebrews 13:4 (King James Version)*

4Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.


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## good2uuuu (May 6, 2005)

bludacious said:
			
		

> Not knocking anyone's opinion but this is why we should read the bible for ourselves. People can tell you that the bible says this....., the bible says that....!!! People can tell you anything. But if we read the bible for ourselves, we can interpret the meaning for ourselves and we will know what the bible states! I feel in my opinion, that the bible has been misinterpreted by many! Again, this is not pointed toward anyone. This is just MY OPINION!


 
This is so true. This is why it is so important to prayfully study the Word and ask God for guidance and to show you the way.


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## JuJuBoo (May 6, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I thought the marraige bed was undefiled.




*AMEN TO THAT!* Shoot, it NEEDS to be undefiled after waiting *THIS* long, SHEESH!


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## landakaye (May 6, 2005)

I'm ITA with bludacious. Read and find out for yourself.



			
				bludacious said:
			
		

> Not knocking anyone's opinion but this is why we should read the bible for ourselves. People can tell you that the bible says this....., the bible says that....!!! People can tell you anything. But if we read the bible for ourselves, we can interpret the meaning for ourselves and we will know what the bible states! I feel in my opinion, that the bible has been misinterpreted by many! Again, this is not pointed toward anyone. This is just MY OPINION!


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## LondonDiva (May 6, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> *AMEN TO THAT!* Shoot, it NEEDS to be undefiled after waiting *THIS* long, SHEESH!


 
     
Girl you ain't never lied. It'll be 3 years for me in January but I'm gonna be patient cause come post Honeymoon this diva is gonna be calling into work sick *A LOT.*


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## bludacious (May 6, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> *AMEN TO THAT!* Shoot, it NEEDS to be undefiled after waiting *THIS* long, SHEESH!


 
I 2nd that!


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## sprungonhairboards (May 6, 2005)

Man no wonder so many Christians are so uptight. Many of them probably have prudish unfulfilling jacked up sex lives! Poor husbands/wives can't leave, can't cheat, whew!   

Opinions and preferences are one thing but bringing God into it and making it wrong, please have some back up~


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## LondonDiva (May 6, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> Poor husbands/wives can't leave, can't cheat, whew!


 
Um  they aren't supposed to, hence having the choice of NOT having to get married. If they wanna screw around do it on someone else time, and not some poor unsuspecting spouse who took their vows seriously before the Lord and all their friends and family.


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## sprungonhairboards (May 6, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> Um  they aren't supposed to, hence having the choice of NOT having to get married. If they wanna screw around do it on someone else time, and not some poor unsuspecting spouse who took their vows seriously before the Lord and all their friends and family.



??? huh
That's not what I meant, I'm in no way condoning cheating, and that 1 sentence you picked out was in reference to an entire topic but .. ok


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## bludacious (May 6, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> Um  they aren't supposed to, hence having the choice of NOT having to get married. If they wanna screw around do it on someone else time, and not some poor unsuspecting spouse who took their vows seriously before the Lord and all their friends and family.


 
You on point LondonDiva. I totally agree.  Second of all, if my man is marrying me just for sex, then he shouldn't even marry me!  Those vows I take before God doesn't say *"through sickness and health and good sex, too!"*  Don't get me wrong MAKING LOVE is apart of a marriage but a marriage is not based on it!


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## sugaplum (May 6, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> Man no wonder so many Christians are so uptight. Many of them probably have prudish unfulfilling jacked up sex lives! Poor husbands/wives can't leave, can't cheat, whew!
> 
> *Opinions and preferences are one thing but bringing God into it and making it wrong, please have some back up~*




According to the last post I made:

"Before I read the Bible, I always pray and ask God to open up my heart, my mind and my eyes to understanding His Word and to reveal things to me."

I wasn't trying to bring God into anything and make it wrong at all???   I don't know where this came from. 

I'm saying, after I've read the scriptures and get a full understanding becuase my Holy Spirit reveals things to me, and this all the "back-up" I need.


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## sprungonhairboards (May 6, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> [/i][/b][/u]
> 
> According to the last post I made:
> 
> ...



Actually I wasn't necessarily directing that towards you in particular and definately not in relation to that post, that's why I didn't qoute you    But since you responded, you _did _ bring God into it in your post prior to that one stating that certain sex acts do not glorify God. You quoted scriptures (that didnt support that theory) but nonetheless you quoted them. But it's all good. Sorry if you feel I'm being argumentative with you that's not my intentions   

Sorry to take the thread off topic


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## sugaplum (May 6, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> Actually I wasn't necessarily directing that towards you in particular and definately not in relation to that post, that's why I didn't qoute you    But since you responded, you _did _ bring God into it in your post prior to that one stating that certain sex acts do not glorify God. You quoted scriptures (that didnt support that theory) but nonetheless you quoted them. But it's all good. Sorry if you feel I'm being argumentative with you that's not my intentions
> 
> Sorry to take the thread off topic



  I'm just learning is all.  I take a lot of thought into what all the ladies say here.  Including yours.


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## Honeyhips (May 6, 2005)

It isn't a debate, if you have some type of understanding or revelation that would help me, I want to hear it. God could have given it to you to help soemoen else. 





			
				sugaplum said:
			
		

> No, I don't have a scripture for this. Before I read the Bible, I always pray and ask God to open up my heart, my mind and my eyes to understanding His Word and to reveal things to me.
> 
> Toys...?? Man-made devices that provide sexual stimulation.... Hmmmmmm.  I see a lot wrong with this.
> 
> I didn't want what I said to turn into a debate over what my Holy Spirit revealed to me.


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## sugaplum (May 6, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> It isn't a debate, if you have some type of understanding or revelation that would help me, I want to hear it. God could have given it to you to help soemoen else.



God bless you HH.  I would love to share what I've learned. It's just, well....what I've noticed on this forum, is it's hard to really express my feelings about the Bible, what I've learned, and what my Holy Spirit has revealed to me bececuse this thread becomes so argumentative at times.  What's a trip is I don't see any of this going on in any of the other forums (when I would expect it too).   I don't know maybe it's just me. 

Since I started and joined the "Celibacy" thread, my Holy Spirit is soooo much stronger now.  And everyday I'm growing stronger in the Word. You ladies know what I mean.   I do Bible study faithfully for 5 hours out of the day, becuase I know God is trying to show me something and get me ready for something...just don't know what it is yet. But I will ask Him to reveal it to me.


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## Honeyhips (May 6, 2005)

*13:4*

Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge


Strongs definition on Undefiled

*Definition*

not defiled, unsoiled 
free from that by which the nature of a thing is deformed and debased, or its force and vigour impaired 

You can look up all the other words in that scripture here: http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=Hebrews+13%3A4&section=0&version=str&new=1&oq=&NavBook=heb&NavGo=13&NavCurrentChapter=13





*NKJV on HEB 13:4*

Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge


*New American standard*

Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge

*CROSS REFERENCES:*
 _1 Corinthians 7:38;_ 
_So then he who marries his virgin does well, but he who does not marry will do better. _

_1 Timothy 4:3_
They forbid marriage and demand abstinence from foods that God created to be received with gratitude by those who believe and know the truth.
R626: 
_1 Corinthians 6:9; _
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 
_Galatians 5:19,21; _
Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, 
*5:21*
envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar, about which I tell you in advance--as I told you before--that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 
_1 Thessalonians 4:6 _
*4:6*
_This means one must not transgress against and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger of all these offenses, as we also previously told and warned you._



I'm not sure why they listed the cross references but I included them b/c they did. You can look up the KJv and Strongs definitions yourself. I don't have anymore room in this post.  

*Holman bible*

Marriage must be respected by all, and the marriage bed kept undefiled, because God will judge immoral people and adulterers. 



*New LIving Translation*

Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery.



*The Message*

*13:4*

Honor marriage, and guard the sacredness of sexual intimacy between wife and husband. God draws a firm line against casual and illicit sex. 

*Darby Translation*



*13:4*

[Let] marriage [be held] every way in honour, F179 and the bed [be] undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers will God judge. 



*Merriam Webster defintion of defiled*


to make unclean or impure: as *a* *:* to corrupt the purity or perfection of *: [size=-1]DEBASE[/size]* <the countryside _defiled _by billboards> *b* *:* to violate the chastity of *: [size=-1]DEFLOWER[/size]* *c* *:* to make physically unclean especially with something unpleasant or contaminating <boots _defiled _with blood> *d* *:* to violate the sanctity of *: [size=-1]DESECRATE[/size]* <_defile_ a sanctuary> *e* *: [size=-1]SULLY[/size], [size=-1]DISHONOR[/size]*
*synonym* see [size=-1]CONTAMINATE[/size]



*I also looked up Debase b/c it was in the strongs definition too.* 
*1* *:* to lower in status, esteem, quality, or character
*2 a* *:* to reduce the intrinsic value of (a coin) by increasing the base-metal content *b* *:* to reduce the exchange value of (a monetary unit)
*synonyms* [size=-1]DEBASE[/size], [size=-1]VITIATE[/size], [size=-1]DEPRAVE[/size], [size=-1]CORRUPT[/size], [size=-1]DEBAUCH[/size], [size=-1]PERVERT [/size]mean to cause deterioration or lowering in quality or character. [size=-1]DEBASE [/size]implies a loss of position, worth, value, or dignity <commercialism has _debased _the holiday>. [size=-1]VITIATE [/size]implies a destruction of purity, validity, or effectiveness by allowing entrance of a fault or defect <a foreign policy _vitiated _by partisanship>. [size=-1]DEPRAVE [/size]implies moral deterioration by evil thoughts or influences <the claim that society is _depraved _by pornography>. [size=-1]CORRUPT [/size]implies loss of soundness, purity, or integrity <the belief that bureaucratese _corrupts _the language>. [size=-1]DEBAUCH [/size]implies a debasing through sensual indulgence <the long stay on a tropical isle had _debauched _the ship's crew>. [size=-1]PERVERT [/size]implies a twisting or distorting from what is natural or normal <_perverted _the original goals of the institute>.


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## Honeyhips (May 6, 2005)

*faints* y'all are hilarious. 





			
				LondonDiva said:
			
		

> Girl you ain't never lied. It'll be 3 years for me in January but I'm gonna be patient cause come post Honeymoon this diva is gonna be calling into work sick *A LOT.*


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## Honeyhips (May 6, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> Man no wonder so many Christians are so uptight. Many of them probably have prudish unfulfilling jacked up sex lives! Poor husbands/wives can't leave, *can't cheat*, whew!
> 
> Opinions and preferences are one thing but bringing God into it and making it wrong, please have some back up~


 Uh... who has ever condoned cheating?


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## Honeyhips (May 6, 2005)

Oh I'm sorry,I did too, but then explain what you mean, because I'm a little confused. 





			
				sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> ??? huh
> That's not what I meant, I'm in no way condoning cheating, and that 1 sentence you picked out was in reference to an entire topic but .. ok


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## Honeyhips (May 6, 2005)

I know what you mean. I've walked away from threads b/c they turned into I want to prove you are wrong and not really hearing from God debates too. I hope I haven't done it to anyone. 

This is something I'll have to meditate on b/c I truly don't know now. I have heard oral sex was wrong. And I have heard as long as sex is pleasurable for both oral is ok. Not sure about toys though. Recently I've only been told that if it is not natural (anal sex) then it is not ok. 

I'm not doing any of it anytime soon, but when the time comes I'm sure I'll get the revelation.  


			
				sugaplum said:
			
		

> God bless you HH.  I would love to share what I've learned. It's just, well....what I've noticed on this forum, is it's hard to really express my feelings about the Bible, what I've learned, and what my Holy Spirit has revealed to me bececuse this thread becomes so argumentative at times.  What's a trip is I don't see any of this going on in any of the other forums (when I would expect it too).  I don't know maybe it's just me.
> 
> Since I started and joined the "Celibacy" thread, my Holy Spirit is soooo much stronger now. And everyday I'm growing stronger in the Word. You ladies know what I mean.  I do Bible study faithfully for 5 hours out of the day, becuase I know God is trying to show me something and get me ready for something...just don't know what it is yet. But I will ask Him to reveal it to me.


Please go to my Study Thread and tell me what you do, or a little bit about how you study. 

Oh and could my post to you have sounded anymore selfish. I don't mean revelation just for me, but to all who reads it.


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## Lena_1961 (May 6, 2005)

MAY 6, 2005

BLUDACIOUS   

YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT. IF PEOPLE ONLY MARRY FOR SEX, THEN THAT MARRIAGE WILL START OUT ON A BAD FOUNDATION FOR SURE, AND WON'T LAST UNLESS THE TWO PEOPLE GET COUNSELING ETC., OR LEARN WHAT THE TRUE MEANING OF LOVE, MARRIAGE AND COMMITMENT ARE ALL ABOUT . 

WOW, MASTURBATION AND THE SINGLE CHRISTIAN :scratchch ?

MY STORY IS VERY UNUSUAL, AS  ME AND MY BOO , ARE WAITING UNTIL WE GET MARRIED BEFORE WE MAKE LOVE. NOW I AM A NATURAL VIRGIN WHO HAS NEVER BELONGED TO ANY SPECIFIC RELIGION, BUT WHO CONSIDERS HERSELF EXTREMELY SPIRITUAL AND WHO HAS ALWAYS LOVED GOD EVER SINCE SHE WAS A LITTLE GIRL. MY BOO IS A PK, WHO HAS BEEN RAISED IN THE CHURCH HIS WHOLE LIFE WHO HAS BEEN WITH TWO OTHERS AS HE HAS TOLD ME ABOUT TRUTHFULLY. BUT BEFORE WE MET, HE DECIDED TO ABSTAIN TOTALLY FROM SEX, BY CHOOSING TO PLACE MORE OF HIS TIME, ENERGY AND EFFORTS INTO HELPING OTHERS AND INTO HIS CAREER, AND TOWARDS HELPING HIS FAMILY AND THE COMMUNITY. SO BY DOING THESE POSITIVE THINGS WHICH HE LOVES DOING, HE THEN DECIDED TO ASK GOD TO SEND HIM THE 'RIGHT WOMAN,' AND LOW AND BEHOLD IT WAS ME  , AND WE THANK GOD EVERY DAY BY SERVING HIM, AND BY BEING THE BEST TWO PEOPLE WE BOTH CAN BE,   THE WONDERFUL THING I ALSO LOVE ABOUT MY BF IS THAT HE NEVER FORCES ME TO JOIN HIS CHURCH, AND HE LOVES ME ENOUGH TO RESPECT MY SPIRITUALITY AND FAITH IN GOD EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS . 

NOW, EVEN THOUGH GOD  COMES FIRST IN OUR UNION, WE ARE DEFINITELY DEVOTED TO ONE ANOTHER, AND WE LOVE US SOME EACH OTHER .  BUT, WE BOTH LEARNED TO DO THAT BY BONDING EMOTIONALLY AND SPIRITUALLY FIRST, AND BY TALKING TO ONE ANOTHER ABOUT MORE THAN SEX. WE ALSO KNOW THAT LIFE IS ABOUT MORE THAN JUST 'US.'  NOW TO BE HONEST, WE CANNOT WAIT UNTIL WE ARE MARRIED , BECAUSE I FEEL THAT MAKING LOVE WITH HIM WITHIN THE BONDS OF OUR MARRIAGE WILL BE ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THINGS GOD HAS GIVEN US, SO I CANNOT WAIT TO BE WITH HIM IN THAT SPECIAL AND INTIMATE WAY, BECAUSE I TOTALLY TRUST HIM AND HE TOTALLY TRUSTS ME, AND WE DON'T TAKE GIVING OURSELVES TO EACH OTHER INTIMATELY AS A SMALL MATTER, AND THAT WAS WHY IS WAS SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO GROW IN FAITH FIRST, THEN BOND AND ULTIMATELY LEARN TO RESPECT AND TRUST EACH OTHER  . 

NOW, IS OUR WAY OF GOING ABOUT OUR 'LOVE' THE RIGHT WAY FOR EVERYONE ELSE? NO, AND I WOULD NEVER PUSH MY BELIEFS ON ANYONE  ELSE, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY EVERYONE MUST DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES  WHAT THEIR LIFE PATH IS,  AND WHAT EACH PERSON WANTS OUT OF LIFE WHILE CONTINUING TO STRIVE TO BE THE BEST PERSON THEY CAN BE. BUT GOD KNOWS US WELL, AND HE KNOWS THAT WE MAKE MISTAKES. SO WE MUST NEVER FORGET THAT GOD LOVES US ALL, AND THAT WE ARE HIS CHILDREN NO MATTER WHAT, AND THAT EACH PERSON'S INTERPRETATION OFTHE BIBLE OR WHATEVER RELIGIOUS TEXT THEY READ IS THEIR INTERPRETATION AND THAT THEIR REPRESENTATION OF GOD'S WILL OR TEACHINGS MAY BE DIFFERENT THAN MINE ARE .     

LATER


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## AngelicRose07 (May 6, 2005)

great post lena!

interesting thread as well....


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## Poohbear (May 6, 2005)

Masturbation is a sin. It's mentioned in Leviticus.

It can be classified with sexual immorality and most importantly... not using your body to glorify God.

I've never masturbated before either and don't know how.


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## Poohbear (May 6, 2005)

_*Ladies, don't be afraid to express your beliefs and don't be afraid to STAND ON THE WORD OF GOD which is in the Holy Bible. 

The whole idea behind sex and engaging in sexual acts is that it's wrong if you DO IT BEFORE MARRIAGE (according to God).  God intended sex for marriage ONLY.  If you are single, glorify God with your body and avoid/flee from any kind of sexual immorality!!!*_


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## Cinnabuns (May 7, 2005)

This is such a great post! I too agree that masturbation is wrong to do.

We have to realize where have we seen these kinds of images (anal sex, oral sex, etc.) to make it all right to do these things in our relationships.

And Sugaplum I hear ya girl, just remember to stand up for whatever comes at you in Jesus' Name!


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## MJ (May 7, 2005)

Did anyone ever examine the relationship between the beliefs regarding sex put forth in the Bible and the historical periods they occured/were developed in? 

I'm sorry I am going to offend people, but what some of you people are talking about here is just plain unnatural. First of all when these laws/beliefs were laid down, women and men were marrying at a much younger age. A woman was a "woman" at 12 and there was nothing unnatural for a woman to be married at 12 (as it is in our times). Hence by the time she'd hit what we now define as her "teenage years" she would have been married and been engaged in sexually intercourse. That would have surely eased some of that extreme sexual agitation and tension that builds up during and after the teens. 

Why do I say it's unnatural? Well women are no longer marrying at 12, instead we are marry regularly in our 20s and 30s, that's an additional 10-20 years longer than what the typical biblical woman would have waited before engaged in (marital, if you wish) sexual intercourse. So why are we following these particular rules in the way we are, while ditching other on the claims that they're outmoded. For example, you're not supposed to eat pigs, it's in the bible; in fact in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, were forbidden to eat meat/flesh; you're supposed to observe the sabbath (just like the orthodox Jews do, Friday sundown through Saturday sundown), etc., etc. but how many of ya'll are doing it? Well you're sinning if you're not!

Humans are blessed with a wonderful range of sexual energy. Female are particular blessed because in addition to the vagina and the breasts, she has a clitoris that gives her the ultimate ability to enjoy sex and her sexuality to the fullest. But what do we do? We spend generations, lifetimes, telling people (women) that sex is BAD before marriage (and during, according to some major religious) and that it is OKAY to SUFFER those undescribable feelings and pains that is generated by loneliness and UNFULFILLED sexuality. God forbid a woman should never find a husband, then according to what many of you are saying here, she will have to remain sexually unfulflilled (not even being allowed to masturbate) her entire life wouldn't she! The assumption is that God will provide a husband to every women, but we all know that's not every woman will find a husband and that in our day and age many won't find a decent one before her 30s. 

Some religious group says sex is only to engaged in only for procreation. Well God didn't make humans like dogs now, did he? Humans, unlike the vast majority of other creatures, are in "heat" 24/7. Whereas dogs and other creatures are in heat only when they need to procreate. So why are we going around telling people to stiffle their sexually, unnaturally, and say it's in the name of God! If you really want to follow God's wisdom, then ya'll (who are promoting this) should lobby to have marriageable age lowered to 12 (just as in biblical times). That way little girls won't be growing up into grown women who are unhappy and miserable as hell (even if they won't admit it; some don't even know the real reason why) because they are taught that it is BAD, A SIN, to allow themselves to feel the full range of their God-given, positive, emotions and desires. And even worse they won't be teaching their daughters or others girls/women that it's okay to experience that particular torture. As far as I can see, this is no different than when the slave-owners were telling black people (and made it law) that it is unnatural for them to read or learn how to read because God made (and they used the Bible to support them) white people to teach black people what they needed to know.

Institutionally-dictated celibacy is the most vicious and POWERFUL means of CONTROLing people. Do your research, the most VIOLENT cultures (including this one) are the ones that promote sexual repressions. I'm not saying people should run around and sleep with anything that moves. Far from it, but some people here are on one hand basically saying sex and sexuality are NASTY and DIGUSTING -- A SIN -- and one the other saying it will be GREAT with a husband. Well if a woman should spend the first 20-30 years or so of her life repressing her sexuality to the point where masturbation is considered disgusting by thinking and totally believing that sex or "fornication" as some defines it, is wrong, -- which is basically mental clitoridectomy -- she's ONE MESSED UP woman by the time she hits the marriage bed. A person just cannot switch the brain on and off like that. Just as she is taught and learns to think of sex (masturbation, sex outside of marriage, even oral sex or use of toys according to some -- within marriage) as sinful and disgusting by default, which is what I'm leaning here, she will have to learn how to reverse that when she gets married, who's going to teach her? I don't see any classes around teaching married Christian women how to enjoy sex after a lifetime of repression, etc. (if there are I would like to know). By that time it's too late.

I read some of these posts and I  because we have obviously learnt nothing from history. Learnt nothing from looking back and see how female sexual repression have created so much emotional instability and depression and suicides in various forms in women for most of human civilization. 

I am not going run out of this thread. Nah, I'll be back checking to see what people are saying. And before any of ya'll judge me by thinking I must one loose woman, I'll have you know that in my almost 24 years I've had sex only once and my celibacy has been by choice  (partly because I'm just picky and partly because I'm still unlearning what I was taught and am now learning to accept the truth that my body isn't sinful) and not because of institutional dogma. So whenever I choose to have sex or think about it, I will not have the guilt and shame and depression and burden that some of the women here are obviously experiencing. And before anyone here judge me "because I'm not a Christian" well I'll let you know I grew up, and spend most of my life, VERY Christian, probably what some of you would describe as orthodox, but learnt, and you all know this, that the Bible is open to many, unlimited, interpretations (hence the various Christian denominations) and decided that my only purpose in life is to be compassionate...


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## CatSuga (May 7, 2005)

Sista, you done broke it down to a whole nutha level. Thank you!
Can I mail you some cookies?


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## CatSuga (May 7, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Masturbation is a sin. It's mentioned in Leviticus.



Show me the scripture.


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## EssentialGrowth (May 7, 2005)

MzJones,
            Well said...very well said...

You'd be surprised, what many of use deem as "disgusting, unnatural, immoral" is the exact same thing members of your church and even your pastor/preacher is partaking in. Do you honestly believe all those Christian sisters and brothers in the faith haven't  once touched themselves? We are born with sexual inclinations, and THAT is natural!

        It's just unfortunate to see many of you buy into our patriarchal society and agree to suppressing your feelings . What's even more unfortunate is the fact that you won't know what sexually feels good for you, and how to achieve that satisfaction for when you actually partake in intercourse..and believe me, your future husband is NOT going to be the one teaching you how to satisfy your needs. YOU first have to know YOUR body before ANY man can begin to know and understand yours...


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## CatSuga (May 7, 2005)

EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> YOU first have to know YOUR body before ANY man can begin to know and understand yours...



Every woman needs to know this.


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## victorious (May 7, 2005)

I've faced these exact struggles in regards to abstinence and masturbation before. I had no ring but I was doing my own thing when I wanted to, where I wanted to, how I wanted to, and with whom I wanted. 

Although I thought I was always in control, I wound up in some sticky situations that was hard to get out of. I made some irrational decisions while in and out of control. When my boyfriend wasn't around, or I didn't have a boyfriend at the time, I was lonely and in need. Not just sexual needs, but sometimes overall companionship. 

I personally felt there should be more for me. Sex was great (I ain't gonna lie), but I knew I didn't have the full package I wanted. At one point I thought I could 'be like a guy' and have no real strings attached. I wasn't sleeping around with every Tyrique, DeAndre and Hakeem*, but yet I felt I was investing more and not getting satisfactory returns. I think I wasted a lot of time in those relationships. Sometimes I went for the wrong type, and I probably missed the one that was compatible for me.
(* I initially wrote 'every Tom, Dick and Harry' but it just didn't sound right to me.  )

Shortly after I decided to live a Christian life, I forgot that God was in control. I then lost control and had a sex with a guy I knew and wanted for a long time before I became a Christian. Since I didn't want to look for the way of escape when facing that temptation, that relationship blew up in a bad way.

Later on a cutie from work went beyond his usual hello and started flirting, pointing out our similarities, and inviting me out. Despite my feelings, I knew something wasn't right. Weeks later there was some drama with him, and I was so happy not to be entangled in it. Since God knocked me upside my head once, I learned to seek him first. 

While in waiting, my mind went off track and focused on fleshly desires instead of spiritual ones. I would imagine what it would be like for me to have a sexual relationship in marriage. (Like God would approve of that because I honored marriage in my impure thoughts.  ) 

I've learned that impure thoughts and masturbation are mental and/or physical distractions that give temporary pleasure and little substance. They're simulations of an experience fulfulled mainly in the mind, but they short change one's emotions. (Picture winning a million dollars but the IRS taking $999,995 because of back taxes. Five bucks isn't much in proportion to what you could have had.)

Through God's Word I know I should trust in the Lord with all of my heart and not depend on my own understanding. When I acknowledge Him, He will direct my paths. Now when I see a handsome guy, I've learned to give God praise, admire His work, and say "Lord, You're good. You made another handsome one over there." That way God knows what I like, and he'll internally prepare the right one for me!  

---

I believe sex is a beautiful, intimate part of love for husbands and wives. When a husband tells his wife he loves her and then shows his devotion by giving his body solely to her, that wife has proof of his intimate love. She in return shows him she feels the same love and devotion he does. I believe that's a great bond of committment. 

Is everything rosy in marriages? Absolutely not. It gets rocky sometimes; but if God is the head of their union, a husband and wife will both seek God. Marriage is a working commitment. In their every day lives, husbands and wives must keep the vows they made, despite the issues they face. 

And so is my commitment to God. Since I'm the spiritual bride of Christ, I must show my devotion to God. In the natural, I have to keep my mind and body in order. When God unites me with my future husband, I want to give my husband my body as proof of my devotion. He'll know that I'm seriously committed to him. Yes I'm not a virgin, but my husband will appreciate my renewed and purified gift because it was set apart for him. 

And as far as what should do ... err ... umm... It will be within reason of course and ... err ... umm,

Whatever we will do​Will satisfy us two.
And please God too.
Now I'm through.


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## NewlyNature12 (May 7, 2005)

Wow MzJones you brought up some interesting points in your post.  I would like to know what others feel about it.

I think masterbation is a sin because it involves lust, which the Bible does speak out against.  It involves having impure thoughts about someone you are not married to.  There are many passages about that all over the Bible. 

Do any of you think that masterbation while fantasizing about your spouse is a sin?  Don't want to hijack this thread, but this question was actually brought up in a Bible study...and a lot of people said it wasn't.  Just wanted to know what ya'll thought...


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## NYCQT16 (May 7, 2005)

Camille429 said:
			
		

> Do any of you think that masterbation while fantasizing about your spouse is a sin? Don't want to hijack this thread, but this question was actually brought up in a Bible study...and a lot of people said it wasn't. Just wanted to know what ya'll thought...


 
You were reading my mind Camille!!! I was wondering too if it is a sin to masturbate while married


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## AngelicRose07 (May 7, 2005)

mzjones said:
			
		

> For example, you're not supposed to eat pigs, it's in the bible; in fact in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, were f*orbidden to eat meat/flesh*; you're supposed to observe the sabbath (just like the orthodox Jews do, Friday sundown through Saturday sundown), etc., etc. but how many of ya'll are doing it? Well you're sinning if you're not!




great post mzjones, but this part has me confused a bit(bold). i have read in the bible (leviticus i think) about there being certain KINDS of meat that were ok vs. the ones you shouldnt eat. i dont eat pork, shrimp, crab etc anymore and i am a SDA, but  can you tell me the verse of the bible that says ALL flesh is bad?


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## Bublnbrnsuga (May 8, 2005)

Kikootie said:
			
		

> Lets think about this. There is a feeling that comes from sex. You get aroused and all of that. With masturbation, you lend you thoughts, eyes, and ears to things that cause you to have those same feelings that you would if you were getting ready to or have sex. *It would be those things that God does not approve of because you are no longer thinking of those things that are pure, of good report, etc that God commands us to think on in his word.* Masturbation is like a short-cut to sex or takes the place of sex just so a person can quench those feelings and experience the outcome of sex. Instant gratification is the word. Is God involved in this? No. If you examine yourself when you want to masturbate or have sex, your mind probably is not even thinking about God. You gotta cast those thoughts and imaginations down.



ITA with everything you said, especially with the bold statement!


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## MJ (May 8, 2005)

Thanks Weaveitup:

These are the versus that I refers when I said "*in fact in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, were forbidden to eat meat/flesh*" 

*Gen 1:28-30*

*28:* _And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air and over every living thing that moved upon the earth._ Man and women are to watch over and take care of the animals, critters, etc.

*29:* _And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat_ Man and woman were are only to eat the plant -- seed producers.

*30:* _And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so_ Here is seem that ALL the animals and critters were vegetarians also
*Gen 2:16*
_And the Lord God commanded the man, saying Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat;_

But this was with Adam, because God changed everything with Noah Gen 9:3-4 and then later in the old testament when he made another distinction between edible and non-edible meats with the cloven non-cloven foot business. Hopes that help.



			
				weaveitup said:
			
		

> great post mzjones, but this part has me confused a bit(bold). i have read in the bible (leviticus i think) about there being certain KINDS of meat that were ok vs. the ones you shouldnt eat. i dont eat pork, shrimp, crab etc anymore and i am a SDA, but  can you tell me the verse of the bible that says ALL flesh is bad?


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## toinette (May 8, 2005)

mzjones said:
			
		

> But this was with Adam, because God changed everything with Noah Gen 9:3-4 and then later in the old testament when he made another distinction between edible and non-edible meats with the cloven non-cloven foot business. Hopes that help.



it says God changed everything with Noah so it is ok to eat meat no? as long as it is within the guidleines of the edible and non-edible meats right? i'm SDA as well and follow the dietary laws so i dont eat crustaceans, pork, etc.


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## MJ (May 8, 2005)

toinette said:
			
		

> it says God changed everything with Noah so it is ok to eat meat no? as long as it is within the guidleines of the edible and non-edible meats right? i'm SDA as well and follow the dietary laws so i dont eat crustaceans, pork, etc.



Yep. God changes the eating guidelines so it's okay to eat SOME of types meat. I should have put my comment in my original entry about A/E before the pig one.

For those who don't know what we're discussing here:

In the Bible, Genesis and Leviticus, God gave 3 dietary guidelines"

(1) In the beginning Man and Women and all living creatures were only allowed to eat plant-based foods (vegetarian). (2) But with the advent of the flood, etc. God gave Noah and humans to eat EVERYTHING and ANYthing. (3) However, in Leviticus 11, God gave Moses and Aaron a new dietary guideline in which he changed things again, this time limiting what's permissable to eat within the meat kingdom. *Forbidden foods include* rodents, *pigs*, hares, *rabbits, lobsters, crawfish, shrimps, crabs, oysters,* twenty types of birds including vultures, insects, etc. That's what I was referring to earlier when I said *if you are a Christian and you eat these things you are committing an abomination and are sinning!* But what percentage of Christians actually follow this?

Thanks toinette and Weaveupit for bringing this to my attention so I could clear it up.

I was going through Bible, reading versus, checking out indexes and stuff, and I couldn't find anything that said masturbation is bad. Fornication, yeah, but not masturbation. And to all who said masturbation = lust: a person doesn't have to be lusting after someone to masturbate, they could just focus on what their body is feeling without conjuring hot fantasies between themselves and another person.  

I also have another question... the stats are something like every 3 out 5 women have been sexually abused in some form or another. Masturbation and positive sexual outlook and positive sexual encounters are some of the most effective ways in which sexual abuse/rape victims get over/through their traumas and grow to love themselves. (The body stores and remembers information just like the mind. So a person may know that it wasn't their fault, etc. and they have even forgiven the abuser in their head, but if they never learn/re-relearn to love their bodies sexually or experience positive sex/sexual activities they willl NEVER got over their traumas completely)...

So couldn't one argue that telling a Christian sexual abuse/rape victim (which could be any Christian woman, 'cos people you don't know who's been abused) that she isn't allowed to re-discover and re-define her sexuality in a positive light through masturbation, etc. if she wants to (as a means to counteract the violence she indured and in her path to love/re-love herself) because she must wait until she choosen by man (for whom she should remain "pure") as his wife  -- effectively taking away her power to choose (again) -- is a form of mental abuse????

It's a long complex question, so read it slow. Re-read if it helps.

I've said my piece(s). I'm done posting here. I'll just be reading from now on...


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## AngelicRose07 (May 8, 2005)

great post! thanks alot! 

youve cleared up quite a few things for me!


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## IntelligenceisBeautiful (May 8, 2005)

mzjones, you bought up some really good points....you really have me thinking here


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## Koffie (May 8, 2005)

victorious said:
			
		

> I've faced these exact struggles in regards to abstinence and masturbation before. I had no ring but I was doing my own thing when I wanted to, where I wanted to, how I wanted to, and with whom I wanted.
> 
> Although I thought I was always in control, I wound up in some sticky situations that was hard to get out of. I made some irrational decisions while in and out of control. When my boyfriend wasn't around, or I didn't have a boyfriend at the time, I was lonely and in need. Not just sexual needs, but sometimes overall companionship.
> 
> ...



Are you like my spiritual twin sister?


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## Poohbear (May 8, 2005)

CatSuga said:
			
		

> Show me the scripture.


*Chapter 15 of Leviticus. The whole chapter talks about purification after bodily discharges.*

*Chapter 18 of Leviticus talks about sexual perversions forbidden.*


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## toinette (May 8, 2005)

mzjones said:
			
		

> Yep. God changes the eating guidelines so it's okay to eat SOME of types meat. I should have put my comment in my original entry about A/E before the pig one.
> 
> For those who don't know what we're discussing here:
> 
> ...



thanx hun. i got it now .


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## JuJuBoo (May 8, 2005)

Lena_1961 said:
			
		

> MAY 6, 2005
> NOW, EVEN THOUGH GOD  COMES FIRST IN OUR UNION, WE ARE DEFINITELY DEVOTED TO ONE ANOTHER, AND WE LOVE US SOME EACH OTHER .  BUT, WE BOTH LEARNED TO DO THAT BY BONDING EMOTIONALLY AND SPIRITUALLY FIRST, AND BY TALKING TO ONE ANOTHER ABOUT MORE THAN SEX. WE ALSO KNOW THAT LIFE IS ABOUT MORE THAN JUST 'US.'  *NOW TO BE HONEST, WE CANNOT WAIT UNTIL WE ARE MARRIED , BECAUSE I FEEL THAT MAKING LOVE WITH HIM WITHIN THE BONDS OF OUR MARRIAGE WILL BE ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THINGS GOD HAS GIVEN US, SO I CANNOT WAIT TO BE WITH HIM IN THAT SPECIAL AND INTIMATE WAY, BECAUSE I TOTALLY TRUST HIM AND HE TOTALLY TRUSTS ME, AND WE DON'T TAKE GIVING OURSELVES TO EACH OTHER INTIMATELY AS A SMALL MATTER, AND THAT WAS WHY IS WAS SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO GROW IN FAITH FIRST, THEN BOND AND ULTIMATELY LEARN TO RESPECT AND TRUST EACH OTHER  .
> 
> NOW, IS OUR WAY OF GOING ABOUT OUR 'LOVE' THE RIGHT WAY FOR EVERYONE ELSE? NO, AND I WOULD NEVER PUSH MY BELIEFS ON ANYONE  ELSE, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY EVERYONE MUST DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES  WHAT THEIR LIFE PATH IS,  AND WHAT EACH PERSON WANTS OUT OF LIFE WHILE CONTINUING TO STRIVE TO BE THE BEST PERSON THEY CAN BE. BUT GOD KNOWS US WELL, AND HE KNOWS THAT WE MAKE MISTAKES.* SO WE MUST NEVER FORGET THAT GOD LOVES US ALL, AND THAT WE ARE HIS CHILDREN NO MATTER WHAT, AND THAT EACH PERSON'S INTERPRETATION OFTHE BIBLE OR WHATEVER RELIGIOUS TEXT THEY READ IS THEIR INTERPRETATION AND THAT THEIR REPRESENTATION OF GOD'S WILL OR TEACHINGS MAY BE DIFFERENT THAN MINE ARE .
> ...



Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.


I encourage you to abstain till you marry the guy. It soulds like you really love eachother...why not wait? 

While I do agree that there are several interpretations of the Bible, sex before marraige isn't one of them. The Bible makes it way to clear that premarital sex displeases God.


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## LondonDiva (May 8, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> Proverbs 14:12
> There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
> 
> 
> ...


 
ITA with you Jujuboo.  You can't praise God and fornicate in the same breath.  He sees and knows every single thing we do and think.  By you having sex before marriage is not you 'making mistakes' it's knowingly and openly sinning.  Yes God will forgive you for it, if you genuinely are sorry and repent, he will listen and overlook it.  But in the meantime no no, man (us) can't run tings so to speak and make up our own interpretations of sex before marriage and try to sugarcoat it.  That's one thing that you can't decifer, it's straight up there in black & white no poom poom before marriage.  As my friend says NO RING, NO TINGS! Infact before the whole sex thing, it even clearly states that you aren't even to live together before marriage.  At the end of the day Lena you and only you one day are going to have to stand and answer before God.  

There are some things I want to do but I can't because my concious is too strong and I have to say to myself, Do I love God enough NOT to do this (sin), and as hard as it yes I do because I will be rewarded for these trying times one day.


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## Poohbear (May 9, 2005)

JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> Proverbs 14:12
> There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
> 
> 
> ...


ITA! Great post!


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## AngelicRose07 (May 9, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> That's one thing that you can't decifer, it's straight up there in black & white no poom poom before marriage.  As my friend says NO RING, NO TINGS! Infact *before the whole sex thing, it even clearly states that you aren't even to live together before marriage.*



lol @ "poom poom"

but can you tell me where it says that thing about living together?


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## Honeyhips (May 9, 2005)

No one is suggesting that women not learn to be comfy with their bodies and learn what makes them feel good. No one is saying that sex is bad. Not at all.  But why can't a woman learn her body with her husband, why does she have to experience with different sexual partners.  (not saying anyone has suggested that). 

I'm not surpressing my sexual feeling b/c I don't masturbate or have sex. I'm telling y'all if you do the right type of exercises you will feel the same endorphonis and sensations that you get from sex. YOu just don't feel the penetration. 



			
				EssentialGrowth said:
			
		

> MzJones,
> Well said...very well said...
> 
> You'd be surprised, what many of use deem as "disgusting, unnatural, immoral" is the exact same thing members of your church and even your pastor/preacher is partaking in. Do you honestly believe all those Christian sisters and brothers in the faith haven't once touched themselves? We are born with sexual inclinations, and THAT is natural!
> ...


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## Honeyhips (May 9, 2005)

I thought they couldn't eat meat b/c of the law but when Jesus came he replaced the law????





			
				toinette said:
			
		

> it says God changed everything with Noah so it is ok to eat meat no? as long as it is within the guidleines of the edible and non-edible meats right? i'm SDA as well and follow the dietary laws so i dont eat crustaceans, pork, etc.


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## Honeyhips (May 9, 2005)

I was confused by her post, but I thought she said she was going to wait for marriage. 





			
				JuJuBoo said:
			
		

> Proverbs 14:12
> There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
> 
> 
> ...


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## sugaplum (May 9, 2005)

Cinnabuns said:
			
		

> This is such a great post! I too agree that masturbation is wrong to do.
> 
> *We have to realize where have we seen these kinds of images (anal sex, oral sex, etc.) to make it all right to do these things in our relationships.*
> 
> And Sugaplum I hear ya girl, just remember to stand up for whatever comes at you in Jesus' Name!



Thanks Cinna.   I never really thought about that!!!


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## sugaplum (May 9, 2005)

mzjones said:
			
		

> I was going through Bible, reading versus, checking out indexes and stuff, and I couldn't find anything that said masturbation is bad. Fornication, yeah, but not masturbation. And to all who said masturbation = lust: a person doesn't have to be lusting after someone to *masturbate, they could just focus on what their body is feeling without conjuring hot fantasies between themselves and another person.*



??? Isn't this self-glorification?  Rather to please the flesh then God???  Just a question.


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## good2uuuu (May 9, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> I thought they couldn't eat meat b/c of the law but when Jesus came he replaced the law????


 
Before the flood there was no needto eat meat because God had provided frutis and vegetation. After the flood man was allowed to eat clean meats, (remeber Noah took clean and unclean animals on thaeark).  As far a JEsus changing ht alw when He came: Matthew 5:17-19 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am come not to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of the least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven". (KJV) 

God did provide us with dietary guidelines, which people these days are finding are healthier to follow. As far as Jesus 'changing' any laws, the thing that changed when He came was the ceremonial portion of the law because all the ceremony (lamb being scrificed, etc.)  pointed toward His coming and being sacrificed, thus when He died and the veil in the temple ripped exposing the Most Holy place( Matt. 27:51), the need for those ceremonial things ended.  The Ten Commandments still stand and apply today. Unfortunatley many people take what they want from them and ignore other parts (eg. Ex. 20:4-11 re: the Sabbath). I think the above text should clear that up, especially verse 19.


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## good2uuuu (May 9, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> ??? Isn't this self-glorification? Rather to please the flesh then God??? Just a question.


 I do agree with this point. Unfortuantely we also do so many other things that glorify self that we would never think to put in the same category as mastrubation.


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## Poohbear (May 9, 2005)

For those who agree that masturbation and sexual acts are okay for Christians to do, ask yourself this question...

Does it give God glory???


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## sugaplum (May 9, 2005)

good2uuuu said:
			
		

> I do agree with this point. Unfortuantely we also do so many other things that glorify self that we would never think to put in the same category as mastrubation.



Like what??


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## Honeyhips (May 9, 2005)

Thanks Good2uu.


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## Poohbear (May 9, 2005)

good2uuuu said:
			
		

> I do agree with this point. Unfortuantely *we also do so many other things that glorify self that we would never think to put in the same category as mastrubation*.


Are these other things - that can be put in with masturbation - nonsexual??? If so, I would like to know.


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## good2uuuu (May 9, 2005)

sugaplum said:
			
		

> Like what??


  Really anything that we do that calls a lot of attention and glory to self. For some it might be dressing a certain way to call attention to self, driving a certain car for self glory, or a certain type of house in a certain neighborhood.  I'm not against dressing well, driving well or living well, but the attitude behind why you are doing these things is what I am talking about. Some do it for self glorification 'look at me, look what I have', etc. Then there are those who have and do these things with the attitude of 'God has blessed, thank You God' and they are low key about what they have. Doese th is make any sense?  I'm in a hurry and this is the best way I can expalin myself right now.


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## Poohbear (May 9, 2005)

good2uuuu said:
			
		

> Really anything that we do that calls a lot of attention and glory to self. For some it might be dressing a certain way to call attention to self, driving a certain car for self glory, or a certain type of house in a certain neighborhood. I'm not against dressing well, driving well or living well, but the attitude behind why you are doing these things is what I am talking about. Some do it for self glorification 'look at me, look what I have', etc. Then there are those who have and do these things with the attitude of 'God has blessed, thank You God' and they are low key about what they have. Doese th is make any sense? I'm in a hurry and this is the best way I can expalin myself right now.


 This is so true but how are these things placed in the same category as masturbation?  Or when you said that, were you just talking about masturbation being a part of self-glorification?


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## good2uuuu (May 9, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> This is so true but how are these things placed in the same category as masturbation? Or when you said that, were you just talking about masturbation being a part of self-glorification?


 Part of self glorification.  Perhaps same category was not the best choice of phrasing. But you did get my point . Gotta go!


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## crml_buttafly (May 9, 2005)

okay now im confused  

for married christians:
oral sex, anal sex, and  any sex that you have when not attemptimg pro creation is a sin?

adult toys:
sin??

this question wasnt asked yet but what about christians that cannot have kids, no sex for them either?

is sex when you know you cant pro creat considered self- gratification?

what if you only want 1 child and then tie your tubes or have a hysterectomy is that a sin? should you and your husband still have sex or is that a sin???


just some questions that came up while i was reading


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## Honeyhips (May 9, 2005)

God did not give sex for procreation only.  He gave it to seal the covenant bond betwen man and woman to cause them to become one. He wants us to enjoy and have lots of sex with one another. 





			
				crml_buttafly said:
			
		

> okay now im confused
> 
> for married christians:
> oral sex, anal sex, and any sex that you have when not attemptimg pro creation is a sin?
> ...


----------



## crml_buttafly (May 9, 2005)

Honeyhips said:
			
		

> God did not give sex for procreation only. He gave it to seal the covenant bond betwen man and woman to cause them to become one. *He wants us to enjoy and have lots of sex with one another.*


 
okay so then, so did he put the restictions on which positions?  or did man?


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## Poohbear (May 9, 2005)

crml_buttafly said:
			
		

> okay now im confused
> 
> for married christians:
> oral sex, anal sex, and any sex that you have when not attemptimg pro creation is a sin?
> ...


Most of the things that have been said that are against sex is for UNmarried Christians.

I would also like to know about that question you asked for married Christians.  Does it matter what kind of sex you do once you're married?


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## sugaplum (May 9, 2005)

crml_buttafly said:
			
		

> okay so then, so did he put the restictions on which positions?  or did man?



I never knew anything about oral sex, anal sex, sex toys, sexual positions etc. untill I saw it (like in movies, friends, etc.).


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## Honeyhips (May 9, 2005)

I don't have the answer to that. I didn't think he put restrictions on anything except for anal sex b/c of the pain involved with that act. I would say Man, but I don't know how those who think this are intepreting the scriptures.   Oh and to clarify, I'm talking about within a marraige.  


I figure God will clarifiy this for me in time. I'm not married nor thinking about it so this is not a concern of mine right now. 


			
				crml_buttafly said:
			
		

> okay so then, so did he put the restictions on which positions? or did man?


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## sugaplum (May 9, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Most of the things that have been said that are against sex is for UNmarried Christians.
> 
> I would also like to know about that question you asked for married Christians.  Does it matter what kind of sex you do once you're married?



This is the same question I have as well.  Is it "no holds barred" in the marriage bed?  Like does anything go?


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## Sweet C (May 9, 2005)

crml_buttafly said:
			
		

> okay now im confused
> 
> for married christians:
> oral sex, anal sex, and any sex that you have when not attemptimg pro creation is a sin?
> ...


 
I am guessing your general question is that is sex only for procreation? I would have to say no, and the main reason for that is you have married women in the Bible who were barren (Sarai, Rachel, Elizabeth, Hannah, etc.) , and they never mentioned anything about them just having sex for children. Also, you can check out Songs of Solomon which discusses a rlp b/t Solomon and one of his wives and nowhere in this book is children ever mentioned in the context of procreation.  

The scripture teaches that the marriage bed is undefiled (Hebrews 13:4), but I don't believe that means absolutely anything goes.  You and your spouse must be on one accord and not violate each other nor God's word.  For example, a couple might want to bring in another couple into their bedroom.  Well, we know that adultery is wrong, and it doesn't matter that the couple agreed on it, b/c God already said no.  If you were to find yourself in what one might call a gray area, then you and your spouse need to fast and pray and ask him for guidance in that situation.


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## AngelicRose07 (May 9, 2005)

LondonDiva said:
			
		

> ITA with you Jujuboo.  You can't praise God and fornicate in the same breath.  He sees and knows every single thing we do and think.  By you having sex before marriage is not you 'making mistakes' it's knowingly and openly sinning.  Yes God will forgive you for it, if you genuinely are sorry and repent, he will listen and overlook it.  But in the meantime no no, man (us) can't run tings so to speak and make up our own interpretations of sex before marriage and try to sugarcoat it.  That's one thing that you can't decifer, it's straight up there in black & white no poom poom before marriage.  As my friend says NO RING, NO TINGS! Infact before the whole sex thing, it even clearly states that you aren't even to live together before marriage.  At the end of the day Lena you and only you one day are going to have to stand and answer before God.
> 
> There are some things I want to do but I can't because my concious is too strong and I have to say to myself, Do I love God enough NOT to do this (sin), and as hard as it yes I do because I will be rewarded for these trying times one day.



lol @ "poom poom"

but can you tell me where it says that thing about living together?


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## good2uuuu (May 9, 2005)

Poohbear said:
			
		

> Most of the things that have been said that are against sex is for UNmarried Christians.
> 
> I would also like to know about that question you asked for married Christians. Does it matter what kind of sex you do once you're married?



As a married Christian, I belive that what my husband and I do sexually is just fine with God because He gave us to each other and wants us to be fulfilled in each other. This was His intent when He created us. As long as we agree and it is not against His word (adding other people, beastiality, anything that causes pain, etc.) then we are fine. I do have to say that I don't agree with anal sex, but I don't have any problems with oral sex. Many think it's dirty and unnatural, but I see it as whole body kissing and just another way to fully appreciate your spouses body.


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## Poohbear (May 9, 2005)

good2uuuu said:
			
		

> As a married Christian, I belive that what my husband and I do sexually is just fine with god because He gave us to each other and wants us to be fulfilled in each other. Thsi was His intent when He created us. As long as we agree and it is not against His word (adding other people, beastiality, anything that causes pain, etc.) then we are fine. I do have to say that I don't agree with anal sex, but I don't have any problems with oral sex. Many think it's dirty and unnatural, but I see it as whole body kissing and just another way to fully appreciate your spouses body.


Oh okay. Thanks for explaining.


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## LDebagoria (May 10, 2005)

sprungonhairboards said:
			
		

> How? So what else is immoral in your book? Women on top? toys? Do you believe people should even touch each other during sex? I'm just sayin
> 
> Please anyone, show me scripture that supports HOW we are supposed to have sex.


 
ITA! Last time I checked so long as you're with the person you love/married to, you're free to do as you please with one another in your *own* sex life! 

Because the man on top, always on top doesn't seem quite right to moi!


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## LDebagoria (May 10, 2005)

good2uuuu said:
			
		

> Paul states that the marriage bed is undefiled (I'll have to find the text later, unless someone beats me to it). If you are married and you both agree on what so do sexually and you are not harming each other, then it's all good. God created us with these bodies and feelings and urges that are designed to enhance and bring joy to our marriage experiences. If He did not want us to fully enjoy marriage, then I don't believe He would have created us this way. There are too many people of various faiths and upbringings who teach us to be ashamed of our bodies and sex. It's sad because in the end so many are robbed of God's true purpose and fulfilllment. That said, I don't get the anal sex thing, but that's just me.


 
Couldn't have said it better mahself Good2!!!


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## czyfaith77 (Sep 3, 2007)

JuJuBoo said:


> Proverbs 14:12
> There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
> 
> 
> ...


 
This is an old post. However, I was reading what the writer was saying. I read it three times and it sounds like she and her fiance were (are) waiting. She simply stated how she looked forward to being with him inside of marriage. I maybe reading this wrong but I did not get what JuJu and LondonDiva were saying about in reference to what the poster was saying.


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## Enchantmt (Sep 3, 2007)

I havent read through any of the responses. According to http://themarriagebed.com/ it is not a sin unless you are lusting after someone in the process. It's not something I've ever looked into tho, so I dont have an opinion one way or the other.


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## Evolving78 (Sep 3, 2007)

bludacious said:


> You on point LondonDiva. I totally agree.  Second of all, if my man is marrying me just for sex, then he shouldn't even marry me!  Those vows I take before God doesn't say *"through sickness and health and good sex, too!"*  Don't get me wrong MAKING LOVE is apart of a marriage but a marriage is not based on it!



Well you know that once you are married, you body belongs to your husband and his belongs to you.  Unless you are sick or something is wrong, you shouldn't be turning that man down.  Most men have a higher libido then women and he can't get it from anywhere else can he?  Same for the women.
  That is why you have to be equally yoked to have an understanding of each other and each other's bodies.  You shouldn't be made into a sex toy that someone can jsut turn on and off, but you have to remember that this is your husband and not his girlfriend.  Rules are different for marriage.  Sex plays a major part in the relationship.  Marriage is more than a parternship.  It is a oneness.  I'm learning this now.  Things can get so complicated once you start sharing your everyday lives together.  It is even different from shacking together.  And don't throw kids into the mix.  You will have to do even more to keep the physical part of your relationship together, because if you don't other things will fall apart.  Most good marriages have good sex lives as well.  Sorry this is so long.  I'm married now, but I have been where most of you ladies are at right now in your lives.  Stay focused on God and God Bless You All!


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## Evolving78 (Sep 3, 2007)

For the ladies that are in waiting, How do you keep your mind focused.  When I rededicated my life to Christ, There were certain things I couldn't watch, listen to, or read.  Those things would get my mind to wonder something terrible.  I would wake up from dreams praying and crying, asking for forgiveness.  I had to stop seeing men until I could really get a hold of myself.  Well it wasn't that I couldn't control myself at all, but I had guys in my life that weren't on the same page and try to make me compromise myself.  Do any of you experience this?


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## alexstin (Sep 3, 2007)

shortdub78 said:


> Well you know that once you are married, you body belongs to your husband and his belongs to you.  *Unless you are sick or something is wrong, you shouldn't be turning that man down. * Most men have a higher libido then women and he can't get it from anywhere else can he?  Same for the women.
> That is why you have to be equally yoked to have an understanding of each other and each other's bodies.  You shouldn't be made into a sex toy that someone can jsut turn on and off, but you have to remember that this is your husband and not his girlfriend.  Rules are different for marriage.  Sex plays a major part in the relationship.  Marriage is more than a parternship.  It is a oneness.  I'm learning this now.  Things can get so complicated once you start sharing your everyday lives together.  It is even different from shacking together.  And don't throw kids into the mix.  You will have to do even more to keep the physical part of your relationship together, because if you don't other things will fall apart.  Most good marriages have good sex lives as well.  Sorry this is so long.  I'm married now, but I have been where most of you ladies are at right now in your lives.  Stay focused on God and God Bless You All!



I disagree. There's  nothing wrong with turning down your spouse sometimes. If you don't feel like it, you shouldn't feel guilty for not having sex unless this happens frequently.


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## Evolving78 (Sep 3, 2007)

alexstin said:


> I disagree. There's  nothing wrong with turning down your spouse sometimes. If you don't feel like it, you shouldn't feel guilty for not having sex unless this happens frequently.



Well that is why you and your spouse should be equally yoked so that way you guys will have that understanding, but there are going to be times in a marriage that you might not want to do something, but you sacrifice and do it for the love of your husband. Like say if you like going to see girly movies, and your husband can't stand them, but he goes with you anyway because it is something you want to do and it makes you happy.  He might be doing it just to be with you.


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## alexstin (Sep 3, 2007)

shortdub78 said:


> Well that is why you and your spouse should be equally yoked so that way you guys will have that understanding, *but there are going to be times in a marriage that you might not want to do something, but you sacrifice and do it for the love of your husband. Like say if you like going to see girly movies, and your husband can't stand them, but he goes with you anyway because it is something you want to do and it makes you happy.  He might be doing it just to be with you.*



I completely agree. There will also be times when he says no because he just doesn't want to see a romantic movie.  Even being equally yoked doesn't mean that my DH will fulfill every wish I have of him and vice versa. And that's okay.  The problem comes when you never or rarely want to fulfill your spouse's desires.


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## tffy2004 (Sep 3, 2007)

LondonDiva said:


> What we can't even do oral when we are married.



I actually started a thread about Oral Sex and the Christian Marriage I will bump it so you can see it.

As for masturbation I don't think there is anything wrong with it, as long as you aren't fantasizing about someone other than yourself, thats what I do.


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## life_is_great (Sep 4, 2007)

shortdub78 said:


> For the ladies that are in waiting, How do you keep your mind focused.  When I rededicated my life to Christ, There were certain things I couldn't watch, listen to, or read.  Those things would get my mind to wonder something terrible.  I would wake up from dreams praying and crying, asking for forgiveness.  I had to stop seeing men until I could really get a hold of myself.  Well it wasn't that I couldn't control myself at all, but I had guys in my life that weren't on the same page and try to make me compromise myself.  Do any of you experience this?




I am right there with you.  The dreams, the thoughts, I am constantly battling thoughts.  I can't watch certain things on tv, I don't listen to secular music anymore b/c most of it makes it makes me reminisce too much. I don't even talk to men on the phone, I'm sure I will later, but right now is not a good time.  Some people may say, does it take all of that?  Maybe not for them, but it does for me.  It's not fear, it's wisdom.  

Also, I had a very large toy collection.  In fact, I had just spent over $100 on new toys about 2 weeks before I rededicated.  I threw them away a week after I rededicated.  I have thought about them, I have missed them, I've even thought about buying just one to help out a bit.  But, I didn't.  I just read a book, pray, and meditate on scripture.


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## life_is_great (Sep 4, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> I actually started a thread about Oral Sex and the Christian Marriage I will bump it so you can see it.
> 
> As for masturbation I don't think there is anything wrong with it, as long as you aren't fantasizing about someone other than yourself, thats what I do.




I always thought you fantasized during masturbation.  It never did me any good if I couldn't fantasize.  That's why I thougt it was wrong.


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## alexstin (Sep 4, 2007)

Mrs_No_More said:


> I am right there with you.  The dreams, the thoughts, I am constantly battling thoughts.  I can't watch certain things on tv, I don't listen to secular music anymore b/c most of it makes it makes me reminisce too much. I don't even talk to men on the phone, I'm sure I will later, but right now is not a good time.  Some people may say, does it take all of that?  Maybe not for them, but it does for me.  It's not fear, it's wisdom.
> 
> Also, I had a very large toy collection.  In fact, I had just spent over $100 on new toys about 2 weeks before I rededicated.  I threw them away a week after I rededicated.  I have thought about them, I have missed them, I've even thought about buying just one to help out a bit.  But, I didn't.  *I just read a book, pray, and meditate on scripture*.



Kudos to you!!! If you have a heavenly prayer language I would encourage you to pray  ore with that than in English. You'll be amazed at the progress you make in being completely victorious in all areas of your life


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## alexstin (Sep 4, 2007)

Mrs_No_More said:


> *I always thought you fantasized during masturbation.  *It never did me any good if I couldn't fantasize.  That's why I thougt it was wrong.



I agree with this. This is my thought process as well. I believe sex is an act that was ordained  to be between a husband and a wife. I just don't see how a husband and his hand or a wife and her toys fits into the scheme of what God designed sex for.


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## tffy2004 (Sep 4, 2007)

Mrs_No_More said:


> I always thought you fantasized during masturbation.  It never did me any good if I couldn't fantasize.  That's why I thougt it was wrong.



Yes, in order to successfully masturbate one has to fantasize. I think for married couples its ok because since they are married it implied that the person masturbating would be fantasize about their spouse. But if the person is single the object of fantasy should be themselves or else it would be wrong and considered Sexual Lust. I'm no expert just my opinion.


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## tffy2004 (Sep 4, 2007)

alexstin said:


> I agree with this. This is my thought process as well. I believe sex is an act that was ordained  to be between a husband and a wife. I just don't see how a husband and his hand or a wife and her toys fits into the scheme of what God designed sex for.



Have you ever been to a website called The Marriage Bed a previous poster posted the link and I went to it the other night. Check it out and come back and let me know what you think.


*Just a Thought:*
I think that there should be a Sunday Night service each month set aside for married couples to sit with their pastors and the Bible to talk about Sex in the Christian Marriage. And a different Sunday Night service for Single Christians who have questions and concerns.


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## life_is_great (Sep 4, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> Yes, in order to successfully masturbate one has to fantasize. I think for married couples its ok because since they are married it implied that the person masturbating would be fantasize about their spouse. But if the person is single the object of fantasy should be themselves or else it would be wrong and considered Sexual Lust. I'm no expert just my opinion.



Soooo since I am a single Christian, I shouldn't masturbate because this would require me to fantasize about being with another person.  Don't really think "I" would be the single object of "MY" fantasy.  I would have to fantasize about some past experience or create a new fantasy. Not only would I fall in sexual lust (which is a sin), but I would eventually need to go fulfill my desires b/c the fantasies would not be enough.  This is just me.  I don't know about others, but if you're thinking about sex 3-5 sometimes 10 times a day, sometimes more, you don't want to go there at all.


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## tffy2004 (Sep 4, 2007)

Mrs_No_More said:


> Soooo since I am a single Christian, I shouldn't masturbate because this would require me to fantasize about being with another person.  Don't really think "I" would be the single object of "MY" fantasy.  I would have to fantasize about some past experience or create a new fantasy. Not only would I fall in sexual lust (which is a sin), but I would eventually need to go fulfill my desires b/c the fantasies would not be enough.  This is just me.  I don't know about others, but if you're thinking about sex 3-5 sometimes 10 times a day, sometimes more, you don't want to go there at all.



To each his own.

Some people can walk and chew gum at the same time while others can't
(my sad attempt at a joke)


----------



## Southernbella. (Sep 4, 2007)

Mrs_No_More said:


> Soooo since I am a single Christian, I shouldn't masturbate because this would require me to fantasize about being with another person. Don't really think "I" would be the single object of "MY" fantasy. I would have to fantasize about some past experience or create a new fantasy. Not only would I fall in sexual lust (which is a sin), but I would eventually need to go fulfill my desires b/c the fantasies would not be enough. This is just me. I don't know about others, but if you're thinking about sex 3-5 sometimes 10 times a day, sometimes more, you don't want to go there at all.


 
I agree. In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure if I think it's ok to masterbate and think of your spouse, but that's just me. That's why I have never had the desire to use sex toys.


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## locabouthair (Sep 4, 2007)

shortdub78 said:


> Well you know that once you are married, you body belongs to your husband and his belongs to you.  *Unless you are sick or something is wrong, you shouldn't be turning that man down.  Most men have a higher libido then women and he can't get it from anywhere else can he?  Same for the women.*
> That is why you have to be equally yoked to have an understanding of each other and each other's bodies.  You shouldn't be made into a sex toy that someone can jsut turn on and off, but you have to remember that this is your husband and not his girlfriend.  Rules are different for marriage.  Sex plays a major part in the relationship.  Marriage is more than a parternship.  It is a oneness.  I'm learning this now.  Things can get so complicated once you start sharing your everyday lives together.  It is even different from shacking together.  And don't throw kids into the mix.  You will have to do even more to keep the physical part of your relationship together, because if you don't other things will fall apart.  Most good marriages have good sex lives as well.  Sorry this is so long.  I'm married now, but I have been where most of you ladies are at right now in your lives.  Stay focused on God and God Bless You All!



I read the bolded in the Bible. But what if you just dont feel like having sex?  I wouldnt have sex with my husband if I really didn't feel like it and I wouldnt want him to feel like he has to have sex with me if he really doesnt feel like it.


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## He_Leads_I_follow (Sep 11, 2007)

I have been single 7 years and WHOLLY abstinent as well. I say "wholly" because I am including masturbation. I struggled in the beginning. I looked for ministries that condoned masturbation and would "fool" myself with thoughts like "well this keeps me from fornication"  DELUSION. 

I would have never made it 7 years if I hadn't made the choice of exploring a deeper prayer life. I chose this in ignorance actually. For I never knew that a prayer life would be a sanctifying tool. The more I became immersed in Him , the less immersed I was in myself. Not on purpose mind you, because I thought all with me was okay. I figured God would understand afterall he knows how my hormones are around that "time". 

After awhile that temptation just left. In the last year it has come back from time to time . The enemy will always come back and try. I finally relized the reason for that. I had to take a realistic view and standback and compare the times of "restraint and no struggle" in this area to the times of "hard temptation and weak moments" that I had been going through in the last year. It was as evident as a skyscraper, my prayer life had weakend. I had become complacent. Not as ferverent as I once was. Not hotly pursueing the heart of God. Just kind of "coasting along" on the residue of my past prayer life. The more I was with Him , the "safer" I was. Temptation would still come but I had the strength to fight! At time there were flickers of spiritual strength from time to time but much like a match that is burning to the end, I couldn't ignite anything. I couldn't demonstrate the power a yielded vessel could demonstrate.

Understand this, people can give you scripture after scripture but it is not until you have submitted your heart to know the truth, will you ever be free. That's how it happened for me. Sitting in His prescence allowed the Holy Spirit to show me just how depraved and needy I really was. At this point you will have no need for selfish satisfaction.


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## alexstin (Sep 12, 2007)

He_Leads_I_follow said:


> I have been single 7 years and WHOLLY abstinent as well. I say "wholly" because I am including masturbation. I struggled in the beginning. I looked for ministries that condoned masturbation and would "fool" myself with thoughts like "well this keeps me from fornication"  DELUSION.
> 
> I would have never made it 7 years if I hadn't made the choice of exploring a deeper prayer life. I chose this in ignorance actually. For I never knew that a prayer life would be a sanctifying tool. The more I became immersed in Him , the less immersed I was in myself. Not on purpose mind you, because I thought all with me was okay. I figured God would understand afterall he knows how my hormones are around that "time".
> 
> ...



Well said.


----------



## He_Leads_I_follow (Sep 12, 2007)

alexstin said:


> Well said.


 
Thanks! 
Blessings, HLIF


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## Choclatcotton (Sep 13, 2007)

I believe it is self abuse to get yourself  highly aroused, only to be unfulfilled the way God intended is wrong.  We are not to abuse ourselves.  God condemned Sodom and Gommorah for unnatural practices.  Pray God to deliver from the desire of these pratices.


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 13, 2007)

I wouldn’t go as far as to call it a sin (although some might).  However, I would look at it this way.  God designed sex for two.  That’s why He gave us all the right equipment.  It’s the “perfect fit”.  Therefore, while I wouldn’t call it a sin, I would compare it to getting a McDonald’s hamburger when God wanted you to have the filet mignon!


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 13, 2007)

sprungonhairboards said:


> *How? So what else is immoral in your book? Women on top? toys? Do you believe people should even touch each other during sex? I'm just sayin *
> 
> *Please anyone, show me scripture that supports HOW we are supposed to have sex*.



 at this whole post!  I know you were serious, but I have a way of making everything silly!

I will say this.  When it’s a married couple, what they do for enjoyment is between them and God (I would say this as long as it doesn’t involve another person—i.e. 3rd party or animals).  I can’t say that I think oral or anal sex is against God’s wishes, b/c only He really knows this.


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 13, 2007)

good2uuuu said:


> Paul states that the marriage bed is undefiled (I'll have to find the text later, unless someone beats me to it). *If you are married and you both agree on what so do sexually and you are not harming each other, then it's all good.  God created us with these bodies and feelings and urges that are designed to enhance and bring joy to our marriage experiences. If He did not want  us to fully enjoy marriage, then I don't believe He would have created us this way.  There are too many people of various faiths and upbringings who teach us to be ashamed of our bodies and sex. It's sad because in the end so many are robbed of God's true purpose and fulfilllment.  That said, I don't get the anal sex thing, but that's just me*.



I agree with this.  If sex was just for procreation, He wouldn’t have made it pleasurable.  Sleep isn’t so pleasurable to us (in fact we can’t feel it, b/c we are in a “dead-like” state).  God gave us tastebuds so we could enjoy food, and He gave us sensors on our private parts so we could enjoy each other, IMO!  Now, I also believe He meant for this in a marriage setting, but He definitely didn’t want it to be boring!


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## Southernbella. (Sep 13, 2007)

cocoberry10 said:


> I wouldn’t go as far as to call it a sin (although some might). However, I would look at it this way. God designed sex for two. *That’s why He gave us all the right equipment. *It’s the “perfect fit”. Therefore, while I wouldn’t call it a sin, I would compare it to getting a McDonald’s hamburger when God wanted you to have the filet mignon!


 
Right, and that's why I can't get down with toys. I just don't know what an inanimate object can give me that my husband's living organ can't (sorry TMI).


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 13, 2007)

*I actually totally agree with you.  I definitely think that the way things are operating now is unnatural, and I’m also celibate (actually a virgin). I was just speaking with someone about this the other day (how in biblical times women married at 12 or 13, so it wasn’t an issue to be a virgin then).  In fact, I bet most 12 or 13 year olds are still virgins.  However, I do think God’s intent was for us to marry young and be virgins at marriage and be with the same person until death.  The way things are today, I just don’t see that mentality coming back.  People are so focused on their careers!


MJ said:



			Did anyone ever examine the relationship between the beliefs regarding sex put forth in the Bible and the historical periods they occured/were developed in?
		
Click to expand...

*


MJ said:


> I'm sorry I am going to offend people, but what some of you people are talking about here is just plain unnatural. First of all when these laws/beliefs were laid down, women and men were marrying at a much younger age. A woman was a "woman" at 12 and there was nothing unnatural for a woman to be married at 12 (as it is in our times). Hence by the time she'd hit what we now define as her "teenage years" she would have been married and been engaged in sexually intercourse. That would have surely eased some of that extreme sexual agitation and tension that builds up during and after the teens.
> 
> Why do I say it's unnatural? Well women are no longer marrying at 12, instead we are marry regularly in our 20s and 30s, that's an additional 10-20 years longer than what the typical biblical woman would have waited before engaged in (marital, if you wish) sexual intercourse. So why are we following these particular rules in the way we are, while ditching other on the claims that they're outmoded. For example, you're not supposed to eat pigs, it's in the bible; in fact in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, were forbidden to eat meat/flesh; you're supposed to observe the sabbath (just like the orthodox Jews do, Friday sundown through Saturday sundown), etc., etc. but how many of ya'll are doing it? Well you're sinning if you're not!
> 
> ...


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 13, 2007)

lauren450 said:


> Right, and that's why I can't get down with toys. I just don't know what an inanimate object can give me that my husband's living organ can't (sorry TMI).


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 13, 2007)

*This was beautifully written!* 


victorious said:


> I've faced these exact struggles in regards to abstinence and masturbation before. I had no ring but I was doing my own thing when I wanted to, where I wanted to, how I wanted to, and with whom I wanted.
> 
> Although I thought I was always in control, I wound up in some sticky situations that was hard to get out of. I made some irrational decisions while in and out of control. When my boyfriend wasn't around, or I didn't have a boyfriend at the time, I was lonely and in need. Not just sexual needs, but sometimes overall companionship.
> 
> ...


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 13, 2007)

good2uuuu said:


> I do agree with this point. *Unfortuantely we also do so many other things that glorify self that we would never think to put in the same category as mastrubation*.





sugaplum said:


> *Like what*??





Poohbear said:


> For those who agree that masturbation and sexual acts are okay for Christians to do, ask yourself this question...
> 
> *Does it give God glory*???



I think almost anything you do could glorify God or not.  For example, you could glorify God in your eating, or you could dishonor Him.  You could glorify God in your lifestyle, or dishonor Him.  You could dishonor God by your shopping habits, the way you behave in an employment situation, even how you act in church.  You can pretty much please or displease God in anything, IMO!


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 13, 2007)

good2uuuu said:


> Really anything that we do that calls a lot of attention and glory to self. For some it might be dressing a certain way to call attention to self, driving a certain car for self glory, or a certain type of house in a certain neighborhood.  I'm not against dressing well, driving well or living well, but the attitude behind why you are doing these things is what I am talking about. Some do it for self glorification 'look at me, look what I have', etc. Then there are those who have and do these things with the attitude of 'God has blessed, thank You God' and they are low key about what they have. Doese th is make any sense?  I'm in a hurry and this is the best way I can expalin myself right now.



Couldn’t have said it better myself!


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## Mamita (Sep 14, 2007)

shalita05 said:


> I believe it is self abuse to get yourself  highly aroused, only to be unfulfilled the way God intended is wrong.  We are not to abuse ourselves.  God condemned Sodom and Gommorah for unnatural practices.  Pray God to deliver from the desire of these pratices.



yep that's true, we had cam sex with my fiance, since we're thousands of miles apart, we thought it's just masturbation and since we're gonna marry each other it's ok

NUH_HUH... we knew after some time it was wrong, even when it wasn't together and on our own, masturbation is not good, it takes ur mind OFF christ, what i did is i prayed hard, fasted and asked god to deliver me and HE has, it's been weeks and nothing, not even the will to do it, not even the tingling i'd get in the stomach when a picture would pass through my mind. I just have to keep focusing on him and he'll keep me on track, 

I see it as, if i can live without it, i don't need it, not the way i need Jesus Christ, so it'll go, power of the mind is tricky, but u just have to give ur mind over to Him to control and u'll be fine... it's possible to not want anything, i'm living proof of that, we used to want it several times a week, for almost 2 years !! now? nothing for 2 months ! NO THING! it's beautiful to be free from that


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## He_Leads_I_follow (Sep 14, 2007)

Mamita said:


> it's beautiful to be free from that


 

Amen!!! Because of your prayers and fasting, you will have the strength to fight when the temptation comes again. PRAISE THE LORD!!!!


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 25, 2007)

Bumping this thread!!!!!!!


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## tffy2004 (Sep 25, 2007)

Speaking of myself: "*Talk about the blind leading the blind*"

Just a couple days ago my eyes were opened regarding the bible and its true context and how we as Christians are to live. In the last couple days I have found a site that answers many many questions and it also provides scripture to back up what they have on the site. Keep in mind that when taking scripture you need to have your bible handy, or in my case I have my 3 bibles handy, so that you can read the entire chapter to get a full understanding on what the versus is truly about. You may even have to read the chapter before.

Here is the link to what they say on the site about *Masturbation*
And here is what they say about *Masturbation in Marriage*


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## PapillionRouge (Sep 25, 2007)

PREACHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

U SAID IT ALLLLL!!!!! 

AMEN!!!




MJ said:


> Did anyone ever examine the relationship between the beliefs regarding sex put forth in the Bible and the historical periods they occured/were developed in?
> 
> I'm sorry I am going to offend people, but what some of you people are talking about here is just plain unnatural. First of all when these laws/beliefs were laid down, women and men were marrying at a much younger age. A woman was a "woman" at 12 and there was nothing unnatural for a woman to be married at 12 (as it is in our times). Hence by the time she'd hit what we now define as her "teenage years" she would have been married and been engaged in sexually intercourse. That would have surely eased some of that extreme sexual agitation and tension that builds up during and after the teens.
> 
> ...


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## He_Leads_I_follow (Sep 25, 2007)

tffy2004 said:


> Here is the link to what they say on the site about *Masturbation*
> And here is what they say about *Masturbation in Marriage*


 
Great link! Thanks for the info


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## calliope (Sep 25, 2007)

delete message.


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## caligirl (Sep 25, 2007)

duplicate post


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## caligirl (Sep 25, 2007)

You said it all!  Heck yeah I would abstain from sex until marriage if I got married when I was 12!



MJ said:


> Did anyone ever examine the relationship between the beliefs regarding sex put forth in the Bible and the historical periods they occured/were developed in?
> 
> I'm sorry I am going to offend people, but what some of you people are talking about here is just plain unnatural. First of all when these laws/beliefs were laid down, women and men were marrying at a much younger age. A woman was a "woman" at 12 and there was nothing unnatural for a woman to be married at 12 (as it is in our times). Hence by the time she'd hit what we now define as her "teenage years" she would have been married and been engaged in sexually intercourse. That would have surely eased some of that extreme sexual agitation and tension that builds up during and after the teens.
> 
> ...


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## harrison (Sep 26, 2007)

MJ said:


> Did anyone ever examine the relationship between the beliefs regarding sex put forth in the Bible and the historical periods they occured/were developed in?
> 
> I'm sorry I am going to offend people, but what some of you people are talking about here is just plain unnatural. First of all when these laws/beliefs were laid down, women and men were marrying at a much younger age. A woman was a "woman" at 12 and there was nothing unnatural for a woman to be married at 12 (as it is in our times). Hence by the time she'd hit what we now define as her "teenage years" she would have been married and been engaged in sexually intercourse. That would have surely eased some of that extreme sexual agitation and tension that builds up during and after the teens.
> 
> ...


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## cocoberry10 (Sep 27, 2007)

I think a lot of things in our world are “out of alignment/balance,” but I still think God’s plan was his plan.  Anyone can interpret this however they want.  I agree that it was easier in biblical times to be a virgin until marriage, since people married at 12, and I definitely think this was God’s plan (for us to marry young—why else do women get their menstrual cycles in their pre-teens or early teens?).  But do you think God wants us to masturbate?  I’m not sure.  I think he “understands” why some people would, but it doesn’t mean He wants it.  I think He loves us no matter what!


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## chicacanella (Sep 27, 2007)

Ok, I felt the need to share this with you all. Now, once you understand the nature of God, you will understand what is acceptable to him.

This testimony is for the glory of God because he took the time to tell me this after I prayed to him and I know it will help many Christians.

I asked God whether it was wrong or not and this is the scripture I was given by His Holy Spirit.

Romans 12:1

1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a *living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,* which is your reasonable service.

2And *be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,* that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.



Now, if this scripture convicts you, then you now know the truth and can not be ignorant on judgment day when God confronts you about it. Nor can you say you didn't know cause you have read it right here. It would be better to not know than to know and then still continue to do wrong.

When you please yourself in this way, it is not giving God glory but yourself.  If you could phsically see God standing there, would you still do it?  God gave me this scripture to set the captives free and when you are being controlled by your flesh, you are not free.  Well, you say I am free because I can go three months without doing this sin and I say, "What happens on the fourth month?"  Do you give in and submit to your flesh or are you strong and rely on God's word.  You may say, I can go six months without doing this sin, "So what happens on the seventh month?" See, my point is not to be a slave to sin or your flesh.  Who the son sets free is free indeed.  God did not call us to be in uncontrolled passion like many that do not know him.

Oh and you may say, if God was in the room with a husband and wife while they were having intercourse, they may feel convicted too. But I say, if that husband and wife are living a Godly lifestyle which glorifies God, they will feel no shame because they are acting according to God's will for sex; to be inside of marriage.

May you receive this Word by His holy spirit and I pray that it falls on fertile ground and to soft hearts Lord God. In Jesus name. Amen.


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## Farida (Sep 29, 2007)

I agree that our current social lifestyle makes it harder for us. We are getting married much later in life, everything is also so sexualized around us. 

But, to let all the rules go because of this? I don't agree.


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## life_is_great (Sep 30, 2007)

vivmaiko said:


> I agree that our current social lifestyle makes it harder for us. We are getting married much later in life, everything is also so sexualized around us.
> 
> But, to let all the rules go because of this? I don't agree.




I agree with you 100%.  God's word is still the same, it has not changed and never will.  The word says "Be ye Holy because I am Holy."  I feel that if we really love the Lord and are trying to please "HIM" there are just some things that we will not do.  Just my opinion.


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## Nice & Wavy (Oct 1, 2007)

Mrs_No_More said:


> I agree with you 100%. God's word is still the same, it has not changed and never will. The word says "Be ye Holy because I am Holy." I feel that if we really love the Lord and are trying to please "HIM" there are just some things that we will not do. Just my opinion.


 
And your opinion is well stated.


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## PanamasOwn (Nov 24, 2007)

WOW...I have questioned this for a while and many of your thoughts were very interesting. I have a very "confused" view on this. You see, my "choice" of giving myself to someone that I loved was taken away from me when I was very young. By a family member unfortunately. I had just begun puberty and developing and didnt get a real chance to understand my body and all these changes before "he who shall not be named" forced me into my first sexual experience. Needless to say, I felt ashamed, dirty, incomplete and worthless. I was not sure if I was a virgin anymore (he didnt have sex with me, but he penetrated me). For years I felt uncomfortable about doing anything sexually with a guy (kissing, touching, anything) I didnt even like to look at myself naked. I always felt like I was disgusting. Then I had my first sexual experience when I was 18. I hated it. All I could think about was what he did to me. I tried again when I was 20 (I wanted to do whatever I cold to get it out of mind) and I hated it even more.. I could never be naked in front of anyone without almost breaking down into tears (the two people that I did have a sexual encounter with, NEVER saw me nude)

I talked with a girlfriend of mine, who had a similar experience when she was younger and she told me she masturbated for a while to regain that acceptance of herself. I really didnt know much about it, so I researched it, ALOT. I actually tried it for a while, and felt weird about it.. But after some time, it was a part of my healing process. It helped me to feel good about myself. It allowed me to be acceptant of myself and understand that, sexual feelings didnt have to be forced, they ACTAULLY could be enjoyable!! Then I met my now BF (fiance). we waited some time before we made love. He was the only person that I ever told my entire story to. Details and all. I had ALOT of issues with myself and my sexuality before I met him. When we finally made the decision to make love, it was the most beautiful expereince of my life. He took care of me and made me feel accepting. I didnt have the thoughts I had of being molested all over again. I had FINALLY made my own choice. 

Now I am Christian, as well as my BF is too. The decision we made, many may not agree with, but then again, many have not gone thorough what I went thorough. I had to accept myself first and be OK with my body and who I was, and masturbating kind of helped me through that process. It helped me *become one with myself,* *before I chose* to become one with someone else. I know many of you may not agree with some of my decisions, but living a life where I was depressed 22 hours out of every day since the age of 12, was not a choice either. God, eventually helped me through the situation, and yeah Im not completely over it (I mean I still see the guy and he acts like nothing happened) but, I am a better person and I am just taking things one day at a time.

I rarely practice it anymore, nor do I hardly ever have sex. (sometimes we go 3 to 4 months) or longer. I know it not ALL right, but I am work in progress.. Just wanted you guys to have a different point of view on this subject.


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## blackbarbietea (Oct 6, 2010)

sugaplum said:


> ITA LondonDiva.
> 
> Since I've given my life completly over to God, I no longer have the urge or the need to.  Resist the urge with God on your side and all things are possible through Christ.   And say to yourself "Does this activity glorify God?"
> 
> ...


 
I think anal and oral are ok when married as long as it doesnt cause the couple to fall. (anything can cause a couple to fall these days.)


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## blackbarbietea (Oct 6, 2010)

cocoberry10 said:


> I think a lot of things in our world are “out of alignment/balance,” but I still think God’s plan was his plan.  Anyone can interpret this however they want.  I agree that it was easier in biblical times to be a virgin until marriage, since people married at 12, and I definitely think this was God’s plan (for us to marry young—why else do women get their menstrual cycles in their pre-teens or early teens?).  But do you think God wants us to masturbate?  I’m not sure.  I think he “understands” why some people would, but it doesn’t mean He wants it.  *I think He loves us no matter what!*


  I don't think that gives us the okay to have at it.


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## Crown (Oct 6, 2010)

Heb. 4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed *kept pure*, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. (NIV)


bludacious said:


> *Hebrews 13:4 (King James Version)*
> 
> 4Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed *undefiled*: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.


 


chicacanella said:


> When you please yourself in this way, it is not giving God glory but yourself.  *If you could phsically see God standing there, would you still do it?*



I would not even want to go to the bathroom


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## Crown (Oct 6, 2010)

Disclaimer : I am not talking about toys, addiction, doing it with someone else at distance, external and visual excitation, websites about how to do it… 

I am trying to understand some opinions :
*If you scratch/massage your scalp and find a release in doing this : you are still holy and you are giving glory to God.
*But if you do the same thing, in your intimacy, with your clitoris : you are not holy and you are not giving glory to God.
Did I get it?

Let me ask 2 questions to the ladies saying God told me this…, the Holy Spirit convinced me of that… about masturbation :

*How many times you did this act before what you think that God told you?
*Would you believe differently if you have not been raised thinking masturbation is a sin?
No need for an answer please, it’s just for meditation.

I am really sad when some people try to push their own experience into others life.
In the don’t do that, we have to be careful to not becoming a stumbling block for others.

For me, this is just a private area, own intimacy. I have nothing to do there. And I prefer to let it to the Holy Spirit.

By teaching masturbation is a sin to - a young person with hormones+++, a person in a difficult marriage, a person whose spouse is travelling (long), a person whose spouse is very sick or hospitalized… - you can cause them to commit the real sin : fornication/adultery. Be careful!

If you are strong enough to not do it or not do it anymore - not because you are ashamed of your sexuality – but because you want to keep your flesh under control of your spirit : bravo! But, please, don’t become a stumbling block for others, weaker or not.

Physically or spiritually, I believe in steps.
Let’s take an example (a little off, but anyway, just for understanding) : sucking fingers.
Sucking a finger is tolerable for a baby/toddler, but it is no more acceptable after that.

Why not let the Holy Spirit do His work at His time, step by step, like He did it or He is doing it with you?

Warning : I am not an advocate for masturbation. If you are convinced that the Holy Spirit are telling you : it’s time to grow stronger, don’t do it anymore - if you continue, you are disobeying : this is a sin!


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## chicacanella (Oct 6, 2010)

Crown said:


> Heb. 4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed *kept pure*, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. (NIV)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

*That's funny. I talk to God on the toilet all the time...always talking. Motor mouth but God is like, "I'm listening." *


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## chicacanella (Oct 6, 2010)

*I don't have time to answer you right now but I will when I come back.*


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## Crown (Oct 6, 2010)

chicacanella said:


> *That's funny. I talk to God on the toilet all the time...always talking. Motor mouth but God is like, "I'm listening." *


Me too!
But you said *physically standing there* : my answer is about this.





chicacanella said:


> *I don't have time to answer you right now but I will when I come back.*


I am not waiting for an answer. My last post is not a direct reaction to yours.
You give your opinion and I give mines like others.
Shalom!


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## LovelyNaps26 (Oct 6, 2010)

I pray about this but I need to PRAY MORE!!! I will just offer this: When you're single masturbation may seem like a release. For me I never needed to think about anything sexual. I would wake up and that part of me would just be excited and all I had thought about was an assignment i needed to complete 

However, the more you develop and "appetite" for something the more difficult it can be to let it go. When you enter into a relationship with someone resisting temptation with the other person WILL be more difficult. The "kitty cat" will be like "Yay, some really food rather than, um, milk" (if you get the analogy). Besides that I feel like it can become a stronghold. Meaning if you can not go a day or a week without doing so it has a grip on you. I AM NOT  perfect but I have moved beyond justifying it ("well, God if you gave me my husband I would not need to do this...). 

Off topic: I never understood why some Christians seemingly "rushed" into marriage. Now, being in a relationship I really don't think I could keep it pure for 3 or 4 years. So basically, if part of your struggle is b/c you're with someone who you truly love and also have natural physical desires for, don't wait just to wait. I'd rather have a smaller wedding and keep it holy. At least, I  KNOW God would prefer it that way.


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## luthiengirlie (Oct 6, 2010)

he put restrictions on anal sex due to the spiritual SOUL TIE that the act causes..
ANAL sex is how one remains spiritually bound to someone.
this is done in satanic rituals..
this is done to control someone.. 
i can inbox you as to why i know this.


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## Vonnieluvs08 (Oct 6, 2010)

LovelyNaps26 said:


> I pray about this but I need to PRAY MORE!!! I will just offer this: When you're single masturbation may seem like a release. For me I never needed to think about anything sexual. I would wake up and that part of me would just be excited and all I had thought about was an assignment i needed to complete
> 
> However, the more you develop and "appetite" for something the more difficult it can be to let it go. When you enter into a relationship with someone resisting temptation with the other person WILL be more difficult. The "kitty cat" will be like "Yay, some really food rather than, um, milk" (if you get the analogy). Besides that I feel like it can become a stronghold. Meaning if you can not go a day or a week without doing so it has a grip on you. I AM NOT  perfect but I have moved beyond justifying it ("well, God if you gave me my husband I would not need to do this...).
> 
> O*ff topic: I never understood why some Christians seemingly "rushed" into marriage. Now, being in a relationship I really don't think I could keep it pure for 3 or 4 years. So basically, if part of your struggle is b/c you're with someone who you truly love and also have natural physical desires for, don't wait just to wait. I'd rather have a smaller wedding and keep it holy. At least, I  KNOW God would prefer it that way.*


*
*

@bolded- I think if you had a long courtship 1yr + then getting married in 4-6mos is not a rush.  But I do think only knowing someone for 4mos and then getting married is a "rush".  My question for the latter would be why the rush?  What is compelling you to get married so soon after meeting someone?  To me it would be the heart posture of the person getting married after 4mos vs the people who have a short 4mos engagement.  The 1st seem like they not want to wait in order to "legally" have sex.


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## Vonnieluvs08 (Oct 6, 2010)

I just prayed with some friends about this.  Our conversation was quite enlightening.  It felt good to know some people in real life who struggle with this.  We are going to keep each other accountable and pray for each other.  We truly want to be pure for our husbands.


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## stephluv (Oct 11, 2010)

^^^^^I agree....I always told people being physical with another person is not a problem for me...its being physical with myself that I need to work on smh


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## Princess4real (Oct 16, 2010)

luthiengirlie said:


> he put restrictions on anal sex due to the spiritual SOUL TIE that the act causes..
> ANAL sex is how one remains spiritually bound to someone.
> this is done in satanic rituals..
> this is done to control someone..
> i can inbox you as to why i know this.


 
I would like to know how you know about this too? Thanks in advance


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