# Just had an epiphany: lye vs. no lye ,protein vs. ceramides



## delp (Jun 21, 2007)

*I am no way an expert so I invite others to chime in.*

When I was reading the book Shamboosie (sp): I remember the advice given was 1. to switch to lye from no lye. 2. If you  use lye then protein is needed and 3. if you use no-lye "moisture" was needed. 4. They advocated keraphix/ (humectress) was the only solution to no lye users..

My experience with nolye (affirm fiberguard): my hair would shed and break when I would try to take care of it at home but when my stylist took care of it it was always healthy. What was the difference. She would always use fiberGuard conditioner on my hair. She used it after the relaxer and on a weekly basis. When I tried to substitute that conditioner with another my hair did not thrive. 


The Epiphany: *What does keraphix/(humectress) and fiberGuard have in common?* Ceramide technology. Ceramides act like a protein but moisturizes the hair very well. 

I may be wrong but from my own personal experience and remembering what shamboosie(sp) said this might be correct.
*
Ceramides are important oil-soluble compounds (or lipids) within hair, responsible for maintaining proper moisture and elasticity. When hair is overprocessed, these essential Ceramides are depleted, causing hair to become dry, brittle and frail.*
*
A study was done:*
Ceramide binding to Africanâ€“American hair fibre correlates with resistance to hair breakage
Repetitive hair-relaxing treatments often applied to Africanâ€“American hair weaken the hair structure. Therefore hair breakage is a common feature of Africanâ€“American hair and an important cause of hair loss. Recently, by analysing the lipids extracted from human hair, a fraction of free-ceramide was isolated in which sphinganine was predominant. This study shows that this sphinganine-derived ceramide (i.e. C18-dhCer) binds to Africanâ€“American hair and protects it from weakening caused by chemicals. To show this binding, we used two methods: radioactivity detection with a microimagerTM and secondary ion mass spectrometry.

We evaluated the benefits of C18-dhCer on Africanâ€“American hair fibre, relaxed by guanidine hydroxide, using a new method called the Break'in Brush Technique (BBTÂ®). This method determines the hair breakage resistance during a brushing. Using this technique, we have shown less breakage when applying a shampoo with ceramide.

The present study opens new prospects for the development of products able to increase the protection, provide better care and meet the needs of Africanâ€“American hair thanks to the effect of ceramide binding.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/do...5463.2001.00106.x?cookieSet=1&journalCode=ics
*
pure products:*
http://www.matrix.com/products/biolage/cera_repair.aspx
Cera-Repair Pro4â„¢- hydrathÃ©rapie in-salon treatment

â€¢ Cera-Repair Pro4â„¢, in-salon treatments, use patented ceramide to dramatically repair and reinforce hairâ€™s natural protective layer.
â€¢ A unique fusion of Matrix science and customized formulas enriched with
hibiscus, algae or ginseng, tailored to treat hair-type specific needs. 







http://www.amazon.com/Kerastase-LOreal-Vita-Ciment-applicator/dp/B000G0HZA2






Product Description
Vita Ciment has been proven for over twenty years to repair damaged hair. It work immediately. Use it twice for the first month then once monthly thereafter. Simple to use. Simply apply on towel dried hair and allow to set 10-20 minutes, then rinse.

I may be wrong about all of this but I am just throwing an idea out there. Please comment ladies.

*The links below are some products that use this technology:*

http://www.nexxus.com/hair_care_brands/signature_line/conditioner_humectress_moisturizing_3.html


http://www.drugstore.com/qxp148259_...re_replenishing_conditioner_and_detangler.htm

http://www.just4beauty.com/731.html

http://www.mizani-usa.com/?m=35&rid=100

http://www.hairproducts.com/view_product_CON-NEX106.htm

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Reviews/L_Oreal_Elvive_Ceramide_R_2in1_Shampoo_Conditioner__67244

http://www.amazon.com/Nexxus-Diametress-Luscious-Thickening-Shampoo/dp/B000JOMT4W

http://www.dclskincare.com/hair.html

http://www.centerchem.com/PDFs/Cerasperse_III+H.pdf

http://www.campo-research.com/campo/formula/intro-shampoo.html

http://www.hairproducts.com/view_product_SHA-NEX105.htm

http://www.monstermarketplace.com/Health/Landing2541a706.html

http://auctions.overstock.com/item/40037258

http://www.folica.com/Kerastase_Solei_d3063.html

http://www.amazon.com/Breakthru-Bre...9-2044020?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1182404644&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Thera...9-2044020?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1182405552&sr=1-2


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## smitmarv (Jun 21, 2007)

That is great information!  I think you have done a great job at figuring this all out!  Thanks for sharing


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## delp (Jun 21, 2007)

Precious_1 said:
			
		

> Thanks delp! this is great information, i am just curious, i may have misunderstood your post, so are you saying if you are  lye user, your hair needs protein? and are these products for lye or no lye users?




I would like others to chime in. I am just repeating what the book shamboosie said: if you use no-lye--> you need moisture. The best way to get this moisture is ceramides. It acts like a light protein. A combo of moisture and protein. 

From the book: Lye users were advised to keep their hair intact with protein. Moisture was less of an issue. So use light protein and maybe once a month heavy protein to maintain.

Again, I am not an expert. I would like everyone to chime in. Alot of the products esp. Nexxus products have ceramides. Some women might have stumbled on the prefect regime just by trial and error without understanding the true reason.

I don't think that the products I mentioned is for lye or no lye users. I think it is just for dry and brittle hair in general. I just noticed that Affirm after relaxer conditioner for its no lye relaxer had ceramides and for its lye relaxer had a wheat protein base.

*Correction*--> Shamboosie advocated humectress (which is based on ceramides) for no lye.
http://www.nexxus.com/hair_care_brands/signature_line/conditioner_humectress_moisturizing_3.html
Kerphix and humectress is both based on ceramides. Keraphix is more conditioning and humectress more moisturizing. 
Anyway, I still think this is interesting research and I still want others to offer more insights.


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## Lioness (Jun 21, 2007)

This is fantastic information, Delp!!!!! 

My hair is healthy, but I just feel it can be healthier, and I wasn't sure what was missing from my conditioning products. But itmakes sence now, as none of my hair products contain ceramides, and my hair was texlaxed with ORS No Lye relaxer.

When I use aphogee 2 min reconstructor without deep conditioning with a moisturizing conditioner afterwards, my hair feels *VERY* strong, but very dry. So when I did use a moisturizing conditioner after doing the aphogee reconstructive 2 min treatment, my hair felt not as strong, but very moisturised.... I need a balance!!!  i.e. Stronger hair (from the protein part of the treatment) with an optimal moisture level (from the moisturizing part of the treatment).

I will definitely get a conditioner which has ceramides in it!

Can someone please provide any examples of conditioners/leave ins which have ceramides?

Thanks in advance!


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## Serenity_Peace (Jun 21, 2007)

delp said:
			
		

> I would like others to chime in. I am just repeating what the book shamboosie said: if you use no-lye--> you need moisture. The best way to get this moisture is ceramides. It acts like a light protein. A combo of moisture and protein.
> 
> From the book: Lye users were advised to keep their hair intact with protein. Moisture was less of an issue. So use light protein and maybe once a month heavy protein to maintain.
> 
> ...



You are definitely on to something. I've been using No-Lye all my life. The good news is that No-Lye always made my hair "white girl" bouncy, with body. Bad news: I wonder why my hair always looks dull and lifeless only after a few weeks post-relaxer. It's gotten worse as I've gotten older...something to do with calcium buildup over the years.

Anyway, I am definitely thinking about trying Lye when I relax again. I wonder why it's so hard to find a good moisturizer no matter what I try and how hard I try.

Thank you so much for this information. I hope other ladies chime in...


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## Artemis (Jun 21, 2007)

Really great and informative thread  

I actually google'd this morning and found this article. Just wanted to add this to what's already being posted:

http://www.happi.com/articles/2007/04/cleanse-condition-repair-repeat.php

ETA: Thanks Delp for noticing that


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## delp (Jun 21, 2007)

*THis might also interest some no lye users:*

http://bobsanj.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=61_65&products_id=3021

MIZANI PHORMLA 7 NEUTRALIZING AND CHELATING SHAMPOO

    * Provides a pH balanced conditioned cleansing which entraps undesirable dulling chemicals and facilitates their removal.
    * Gives rise to bright, shining healthy hair.
    * Dual-purpose, post relaxer shampoo is formulated to remove any remaining relaxer or mineral deposits from the hair while the protein conditioner helps restore moisturization during chemical services.


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## delp (Jun 21, 2007)

artemis_e.,

I think there was too many http in your link. I reposted it. 

http://www.happi.com/articles/2007/04/cleanse-condition-repair-repeat.php


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## Radianthealth (Jun 21, 2007)

I have a lye relaxer and fine hair so protein is great for me.  I prepoo with hairmayo at least once perweek.  I mix aphogee into my prepoos as well.  This keeps my strands strong and healthy.  I think for me I had to find really good protein treatments and really good moisturizing/softening treatments.  I think Aveeda, Aphogee, NTM and Roux help my hair to stay healthy and strong.


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## Artemis (Jun 21, 2007)

trimbride said:
			
		

> I have a lye relaxer and fine hair so protein is great for me.


 
Same here. That is why I love Joico so much (human hair keratin protein in every product), but I definitely want to incorportate 1-2 ceramide products in my regimen for added support.


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## LynnieB (Jun 21, 2007)

and for the budget conscious :

there's an entire optimum care line devoted to ceramides:

*Optimum Care  Anti Breakage Therapy Stay Strong Shampoo
(i still love and use the poo now and again)
* 

http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=304575&navAction=jump&navCount=0&id=prod2663079

and 

*SoftSheen-Carson  Optimum Care Anti-Breakage Therapy Stay Strong Conditioner*

http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=304666&navAction=jump&navCount=6&id=prod2663075

* as well as an entire selection of products:*
http://www.walgreens.com/search/search_results.jsp?_dyncharset=ASCII&term=optimum+care&x=0&y=0

hth the cheapos in the audience


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## Daisimae (Jun 21, 2007)

This thread sent me to Wal*Mart this morning to buy Suave Professionals Extra Strength shampoo and leave in.  They along with the conditioner all contain ceramides and are advertised as knock-offs of the Redken Extreme Strength line. That line has received rave reviews at Drugstore.com.  

Like all Suave products these were inexpensive, under $2 each.  I'm going to use the shampoo with my Aphogee 2-min reconstructor.  The leave-in will be applied once a day.  I think this, along with a bit of humectress placed first, is just what my ends need to keep them strong, moisturized and to get rid of the frizz.

Thanks for posting this info!


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## Bint Yusef (Jun 21, 2007)

This is another argument for using a complete line of products, and how products are made to work together.


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## Artemis (Jun 21, 2007)

OnAHairQuest said:
			
		

> This is another argument for using a complete line of products, and how products are made to work together.


 
Definitely


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## SvelteVelvet (Jun 21, 2007)

EXCELLENT info! Makes perfect sense.   The health of our hair REALLY is a science that all black women who relax should learn & discover. This is the sort of wealth of knowledge that makes being a member here pay off!


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## Seeking8Rights (Jun 21, 2007)

Delp-

Does the book state why he recommends switching to a lye relaxer?  I curious because I currently use Affirm Sensitive Scalp relaxer which is a guanidine hydroxide (aka no-lye) relaxer as opposed to the sodium hydroxide (lye relaxer) Affirm original.

I do remember though when my stylist used the Affirm original (lye formula) on my hair, my hair seemed to have moisture, but it was thin and I had a lot of shedding & breakage (my scalp was also always dry and tight)  Because of that I switched stylist and she used the Sensitive scalp relaxer along with the dry & itchy scalp con/shampoo line and my hair over a period of a year became thick and grew like a race champ.


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## Lioness (Jun 21, 2007)

I've just had a look at the ingredients of the Soft Sheen Carson Stay Strong conditioner that LynnieB posted (Thanks LynnieB   The PJ in me loves cheapies...) 

The product description says that it has ceramides in it, but How can you tell in the ingredients if the product has ceramides apart from looking at the product description? Is there a particular ingredient to look out for?


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## Artemis (Jun 21, 2007)

@ Keclee23--I know you asked Delp the question but I just wanted to give my thoughts on this...

As a general rule I think of it like this:

Lye relaxers: better on the hair, hell on the scalp

No-Lye relaxers: better on the scalp, hell on the hair

With calcium hydroxide and guanidine hydroxide, the cuticle is left open after the relaxer process, which leaks all the moisture out of the hair (making it more dry and brittle). Lye relaxers smooth the cuticle after the relaxer process (maybe the pH is lower--can someone check on that??) so the strands can better retain moisture than no-lye relaxed strands. I think the exception to the rule would be Phytorelaxer, but I'm not even close to being an expert on that.

While I don't as a whole think that one type is better than the other (they both can deplete the hair), for me, it's a "Pick your Poison" type of situation.

HTH


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## Artemis (Jun 21, 2007)

Actually it does logically follow that using ceramides (being a lipid) on hair that is relaxed w/a no-lye relaxer would be greatly beneficial, as the ceramides act as a moisture-binding agent where the cuticle fails to close itself, due to the nature of how no-lye relaxers work...Hmm, interesting...:scratchch


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## Royal Glory (Jun 21, 2007)

Fabulous information! Thanks for pulling it all together. It seems to make sense. I will read a little more.


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## Artemis (Jun 21, 2007)

Summa Bliss said:
			
		

> I've just had a look at the ingredients of the Soft Sheen Carson Stay Strong conditioner that LynnieB posted (Thanks LynnieB  The PJ in me loves cheapies...)
> 
> The product description says that it has ceramides in it, but *How can you tell in the ingredients if the product has ceramides apart from looking at the product description? Is there a particular ingredient to look out for?*


 
I want to know this as well! I wish I could leave the office right now and go do some "research" at the Ulta thats 3 blocks down from my job


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## Lioness (Jun 21, 2007)

artemis_e. said:
			
		

> I want to know this as well! I wish I could leave the office right now and go do some "research" at the Ulta thats 3 blocks down from my job



  I know exactly what you mean. This is the most interesting thread I've come accross in a long time. It's highlighted the importance of science when it comes to hair care. I'm gonna do some research into this.

My hair would love a treatment which works as a protein but moisturises like a moisturising treatment  , and it seems that Cermaides is the key to this. 

But there must be a particular ingredient(s) which denotes whether Ceramides are present in the product. I really wanna know now becuase it would really help me when picking out whicch poos and cons to buy.

Side note example---- in the description on the back of some 'daily' moisturisers, they don't mention ANYTHING about being a protein treatment, but then when you look into the ingredients, and you see 'Keratin' you're like  - I never knew what keratin was before LHCF. and I probably wouldn't have known what using it everyday could do to the hair without proper moisture balance if it wasn't for LHCF (Thank God for LCHF...!).


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## EbonyHairedPrincess (Jun 21, 2007)

Delp your the HAIR HERO of the month!  I use ORS no lye and I rely on Keraphix and Suave Humectress. This is fabulous information and I might have to check out that suave cermaides line.  This is a 5 star thread.


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## LynnieB (Jun 21, 2007)

here's one:

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5773611-claims.html

3-Octadecanediol

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050061349.html

^^ notice in this one that Loreal filed for the patent (am i reading this correctly?)


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## jasmin (Jun 21, 2007)

Great advice...thanks for posting it.

I have lye...can I use the fiberguard and still get benefits.


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## mspm (Jun 21, 2007)

Thank you for this thread Delp! You are definitely reading my mail.  The same thing happened to me when I was switched to the Affirm no-lye, and I have been trying to find a conditioner that works for my hair since it doesn't seem to like 'hard protein'. Can anyone tell me if Phyto is considered a no-lye relaxer? Thanks and God bless.


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## Seeking8Rights (Jun 21, 2007)

artemis_e. said:
			
		

> @ Keclee23--I know you asked Delp the question but I just wanted to give my thoughts on this...
> 
> As a general rule I think of it like this:
> 
> ...


 
Thank you that answered my question.  I think because I already have dry skin in my case it might be beneficial to stick with the no lye relaxer.  I just remember those days where my scalp felt like it was on flame all the time, with the lye relaxers.  

I do use the Cephra (sp) every 4 to 8 weeks and my hair looves that stuff.  I haven't used it in a while so I guess it's time to re-up.


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## Artemis (Jun 21, 2007)

mspm said:
			
		

> Thank you for this thread Delp! You are definitely reading my mail.  The same thing happened to me when I was switched to the Affirm no-lye, and I have been trying to find a conditioner that works for my hair since it doesn't seem to like 'hard protein'. Can anyone tell me if Phyto is considered a no-lye relaxer? Thanks and God bless.


 
I think Phyto is a no-lye, but b/c of the science behind the product they somehow removed the "hydroxide" part that makes it hard to keep the cuticles closed, so that's why in my previous post I said it MIGHT be an exception to the rule. I'd say to ask some long-term Phyto users what kind of moisture levels they can retain and then go from there.

HTH


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## PinkSkates (Jun 21, 2007)

> Originally posted by *Kelcee*
> *Does the book state why he recommends switching to a lye relaxer?* I curious because I currently use Affirm Sensitive Scalp relaxer which is a guanidine hydroxide (aka no-lye) relaxer as opposed to the sodium hydroxide (lye relaxer) Affirm original.
> 
> I do remember though when my stylist used the Affirm original (lye formula) on my hair, my hair seemed to have moisture, but it was thin and I had a lot of shedding & breakage (my scalp was also always dry and tight) Because of that I switched stylist and she used the Sensitive scalp relaxer along with the dry & itchy scalp con/shampoo line and my hair over a period of a year became thick and grew like a race champ.


 
To answer your question:
I have his book and on page 151 Shamboosie states:
Contrary to popular belief, a conditioning lye relaxer is the best relaxer for your hair and scalp. It will leave the hair silkier and softer by conditioning as it relaxes the hair. The conditioning lye relaxer allows the hair to receive the moisture from conditioners it needs to retain its softness and to remain pliable. There is no calcium buildup and no extreme dryness, which you will always get with a no-lye relaxer. The conditioning Lye relaxer leaves the cuticle layer of the hair healthier with every application (and this is no lie).

The biggest problem with the No-Lye relaxer is that the calcium buildup locks the hair, sealing the cuticle, and will not allow the hair to receive the moisture from shampoos and conditioners it needs to remain soft to the touch, pliable and capable of holding its curl and style.


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## tnorenberg (Jun 21, 2007)

This is an *AWSOME *thread. Thanks for the info everyone.


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## Seeking8Rights (Jun 21, 2007)

Can someone tell me who makes Phyto?


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## lovenharmony (Jun 21, 2007)

Thanks for sharing this info Delp!! I will definitely read up more on that topic. I'm learning so much for all of you   I love LHCF!!


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## Soliel185 (Jun 21, 2007)

This definitely makes sense...I was looking at a few products that supposedly have ceramides, but I still can't pin point a consistant ingredient that shows they're in there. I'd like to know what to look for to make sure I'm getting the right product, and also to compare products based on how far up or down ceramides are in the ingredients list. Anyone had any luck with this?


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## LynnieB (Jun 21, 2007)

Soliel185 said:
			
		

> This definitely makes sense...I was looking at a few products that supposedly have ceramides, but I still can't pin point a consistant ingredient that shows they're in there. I'd like to know what to look for to make sure I'm getting the right product, and also to compare products based on how far up or down ceramides are in the ingredients list. Anyone had any luck with this?



check post #25.


3-Octadecanediol IS a ceramide.


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## gn1g (Jun 21, 2007)

Daisimae said:
			
		

> This thread sent me to Wal*Mart this morning to buy Suave Professionals Extra Strength shampoo and leave in. They along with the conditioner all contain ceramides and are advertised as knock-offs of the Redken Extreme Strength line. That line has received rave reviews at Drugstore.com.
> 
> Like all Suave products these were inexpensive, under $2 each. I'm going to use the shampoo with my Aphogee 2-min reconstructor. The leave-in will be applied once a day. I think this, along with a bit of humectress placed first, is just what my ends need to keep them strong, moisturized and to get rid of the frizz.
> 
> Thanks for posting this info!


 
they sell these at the dollar tree.


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## Bint Yusef (Jun 21, 2007)

This also explains why my hair was   when I used no-lye relaxers.


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## Artemis (Jun 21, 2007)

I wonder if L'Oreal really does have some sort of patent on a certain type of ceramide technology...When I google "ceramide hair" the only products that come up are from brands that are under the L'Oreal name...Biolage/Matrix, SoftSheen Carson, Mizani, etc.

ETA: Is Nexxus under L'Oreal? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. That's the only brand exception.


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## Mook's hair (Jun 21, 2007)

Yes. I have to agree this is a top rated thread. I've been in here reading and going to links for about 2 hours now. I just picked up some great info in here. 

I use a no lye and my hair is super dry. It's thick, it's fairly healthy and it looks good and gets soft after I finish adding creams & leave-ins but it is dry.

I've been thinking about changing to a conditioning lye relaxeer for a while now. I'm experiencing a lot of indecisiveness. Don't know whether I want to stay no-lye, switch to lye or just quit relaxers all together and transition.

But I have experienced the positive effects of Ceramide products (biolage & Mizani). I just never paid attention to the ceramides being the key.


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## gn1g (Jun 21, 2007)

I have fine hair and I use ORS lye perm.  I love Nexxus botanical shampoo, Keraphix, and headdress as well as Joico recon.  all have ceramides and they work wonders in strengthen and conditioning my hair.  , but not so much to my scalp.


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## delp (Jun 21, 2007)

Keclee23 said:
			
		

> Delp-
> 
> Does the book state why he recommends switching to a lye relaxer?  I curious because I currently use Affirm Sensitive Scalp relaxer which is a guanidine hydroxide (aka no-lye) relaxer as opposed to the sodium hydroxide (lye relaxer) Affirm original.
> 
> I do remember though when my stylist used the Affirm original (lye formula) on my hair, my hair seemed to have moisture, but it was thin and I had a lot of shedding & breakage (my scalp was also always dry and tight)  Because of that I switched stylist and she used the Sensitive scalp relaxer along with the dry & itchy scalp con/shampoo line and my hair over a period of a year became thick and grew like a race champ.




I am not an expert but stick with what works. Maybe just keep this info in mind. Change up your regime.

http://www.growafrohairlong.com/perms.html

LYE RELAXER performs much better than NO LYE Relaxers. Some relaxers straighten faster than other relaxers. Design Essentials relax the hair in less time than Motion

Relaxers: Straightens, soften and make coarse or unmanageable hair more manageable.

Texturizers: make hair more manageable but in a milder form. It gives the hair a strong look and feel of the hairs' original texture.

A Perm: Is to tame the hair permanently by getting the effects of straight hair, waves, body, or curls.

* If you are not familiar with applying relaxers, perms, or chemicals, have a professional do all your relaxers and perms. Have this done after your hair is in good condition

When choosing a relaxer, apply ones that encourage moisture. Keep your hair deep conditioned

No-Lye Relaxers

These are formulated with Guanidine hydroxide to straighten the hair. They have a pH of 9-9.5. Which is higher than your hair pH is supposed to be. Your hair should have a pH of 4.5-5.5. Another chemical base name for no-lye relaxers is thioglycolate-based formulations. Many believe that no-lye relaxers are less harsh on the hair, but they seem to be more drying to the hair than lye relaxers. If you have a no-lye relaxer that seems dry, you can still get your relaxer to the proper pH level where it's healthy. On a regular basis, deep conditioning your hair once every week or once every two weeks. Eat the most nutritious foods, add vitamins to your diet, and handle your hair differently. If for some reason your no-lye relaxer is still shedding or feels like straw, no matter what you do, there is no need to have a no-lye relaxer.

Other alternatives: Grow your hair out to have the old relaxer clipped out. Use a Lye relaxer instead, wear a natural or hot press your hair.

Keep products such as Abba Moisture Scentsations in mind, Creme of Nature Shampoo, infusium23, Sebastian Clarifying Shampoo, Paul Mitchell's Clarifying Shampoo, and Le Kair Cholesterol Plus.

If your No-Lye relaxer were not working for you, it would not be a good thing to put in braid extensions to grow your hair with a no-lye relaxer. I have heard that the PHYTO NO-LYE RELAXER is a good one. phyto.com It has natural ingredients, yet keeps the hair moist.

Lye Relaxers/Perms
These are formulated with Sodium hydroxide. They are also referred to as 'alkali relaxers'. The pH levels are higher than no-lye relaxers. The pH is of 12-14, which is high. With both lye and no-lye relaxers, the hair must stay deep conditioned to get the hair back to a normal ph level. When you apply the relaxers, you cannot apply it to the old growth, no matter how strong your hair is, it will break down your hair excessively and your hair will began to break. You must also use the proper steps when applying or your hair will be damaged. I recommend lye relaxers be done by a professional.


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## delp (Jun 21, 2007)

Summa Bliss said:
			
		

> I know exactly what you mean. This is the most interesting thread I've come accross in a long time. It's highlighted the importance of science when it comes to hair care. I'm gonna do some research into this.
> 
> My hair would love a treatment which works as a protein but moisturises like a moisturising treatment  , and it seems that Cermaides is the key to this.
> 
> ...




Ceramide 3 (that is what is on the back of my fiberguard conditioner)


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## Artemis (Jun 21, 2007)

delp said:
			
		

> Ceramide 3 (that is what is on the back of my fiberguard conditioner)


Ceramide 3 is also in the Keraphix

I did some digging and found this:
http://www.lanza.com/articles/19,1.html

L'ANZA Treats Trauma

Two Major Stylist Complaints Solved with Trauma Treatment
Hairstylists complained and L'ANZA listened. The two major hair traumas hairstylists are challenged with are 1) damaged, overprocessed hair and 2) uneven color deposition and attachment as a direct result of damaged hair.? 

With such traumatized hair, stylists are unsure whether to proceed with a chemical salon service or to send the client home.? And if they chose the former route, an uneven color service resultsâ€”leaving the client unsatisfied and the colorist very frustrated.?? 

Lâ€™ANZA? Healing HairCare introduces Color Preserving Trauma TreatmentTM, a leave-in prescription that heals traumatized hair and improves color attachment.? Its revolutionary formula heals over-processed hairâ€”from withinâ€”and balances porosity, resulting in remarkably improved color attachment and uniform color deposition.

How Trauma Treatment Works:
An ultra-healing blend of two powerful ingredients, Ceramide-2 and Lâ€™ANZAâ€™s famous Keratin Bond System 2 TM (KB2TM), provides a healed hair structure and improved color attachment.?

Trauma Treatment infuses hair with Ceramide-2.? Ceramides are important oil-soluble compounds (or lipids) within hair, responsible for maintaining proper moisture and elasticity.? *Two types of Ceramides are found in hair: less abundant Ceramide-1 (comprising 12%), more abundant Ceramide-2 (comprising 88%).? When hair is overprocessed, these essential Ceramides are depleted, causing hair to become dry, brittle and frail*.? Traumatized hair is unable to accept and hold color during processing.? Lâ€™ANZAâ€™s Trauma Treatment replenishes Ceramide-2 back into the hair to restore functional health and enhance color uptake.? 

Treatment infuses hair with a heightened dose of KB2.? This potent dose of Keratin Protein penetrates deep inside the cortex to strengthen the Cystine linkage.? *The unique combination of lipid-rich Ceramide-2 and protein-abundant KB2?provides an ideal balance of moisture and protein.?* Hair is healed and the structure becomes intact, allowing the creation of color attachment sites within the cortex.? The revolutionary blend of Ceramide-2 and KB2 balances porosity, allows uniform pigment deposition and improves color attachment and longevity. 

Edited to shrink and clean up. Full article at the linked site.


----------



## Serenity_Peace (Jun 21, 2007)

OnAHairQuest said:
			
		

> This is another argument for using a complete line of products, and how products are made to work together.


 
Aveda, baby!!! This is the first time that my hair doesn't look dry and dull!


----------



## Bint Yusef (Jun 21, 2007)

Serenity_Peace said:
			
		

> Aveda, baby!!! This is the first time that my hair doesn't look dry and dull!


 I am about to jump on that bandwagon too, as soon as I use up all this other stuff I have and I take my soon to be installed twists out.

Throws up  DR sign!


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## B_Phlyy (Jun 21, 2007)

I have had Shamboosie's book for 3 years and I never thought to make that connection. I used to use Motions and Silk Elements lye relaxer and now that I think about it, my hair always felt better when I used Keraphix over the Humectress.

Good work and great thread Delp.


----------



## meaganita (Jun 21, 2007)

Okay, not that I need to purchase anymore products....But that Mizani Thermasmooth line is looking pretty good to me.  It says it works well for naturals too.  I think I might have to just break down this _one last_ time...and buy it.


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## *Michelle* (Jun 21, 2007)

Yep, ceramides are the bomb...they are the reason I mainly use Mizani and Redken.

When I t-up, after I rinse but before I neutralize I use UV Rescue Treat for 10mins...AMAZING results.

Add some keratin oil to the relaxer and be prepared to be DOUBLE AMAZED!!

My hair is not long compared to the diva standards here, but I will say when it comes to healthy...its right up there with the BIG DOGS!!

Okay, I justs used my one bragging pass...


----------



## LovelyLionessa (Jun 21, 2007)

Great thread.  I'm glad I bought a tube of Keraphix and a tub of Silicon Mix.  They both contain ceramides.  Knowledge is power!


----------



## cocoa32 (Jun 21, 2007)

This is a wonderful thread.  I knew nothing about ceramides.  I noticed a lot of ladies here on LHCF use Keraphix.  I must buy it asap!


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## mspm (Jun 21, 2007)

This thread has had me digging on the Net for hours! I used a lye relaxer (since I was 10) with no dryness problem but when a no-good stylist started putting affirm no-lye in my hair, it started to feel like straw and I eventually went bald! Now I know that it was the calcium hydroxide that dried my hair to a crisp. Since I've been using Phyto, my hair has thrived. The key is that Phyto does not contain drying calcium hydroxide, yet the guanidine carbonate (no lye) is gentler on my scalp (I have dermatitis) and my hair than the sodium hydroxide (lye). Phyto is a keeper IMO! HTH someone with similar issues.


----------



## ravenmerlita (Jun 21, 2007)

Delp -- great information!  

My hair is naturally dry, brittle and fine. I have been told I cannot have color or a relaxer because my hair would disintegrate. I've been using the Kerastase vita-ciment, L'anza protecshine and the Affirm Fiberguard Lye Relaxer with the Sustenance Conditioner before neutralizing. My hair is stronger than it's ever been. 

In fact, once I started using the vita-ciment and the L'anza, I went from having to get trims every 8-10 weeks because of splits, to not having any split ends and stretching to 3 months before trimming.

I do believe it is the ceramides.

Also, the best clarifying shampoo I found so far for me is the Nexxus Aloe Rid. Just looked it up and it contains ceramides too. 

I don't understand all the science, but ceramides are working for me.


----------



## newflowers (Jun 21, 2007)

This is fabulous information. In my new arsenal of hair products, I have everything BUT ceramides. I've heard of them, but had no clue to the importance they play is caring for relaxed hair. 

I have a few areas of confusion that I am hoping someone will be able to clear up.  The first is the type of ceramide - the first articles calls is CR18; most of the products say Ceramide 3, except for the Lan'za which has Ceramide 2. The Lan'za articles further says that hair is "12% ceramide 1 and 88% ceramide 2." What then is ceramide 3 - is it a combination of both one and two? If one is to choose a product, which one? I have access to the professional products, but would not know which one to buy as the information is - well not conflicting, but certainly confusing.

The next question is where should the ceramide be in the ingredient list - presumably near the top?

If no-lye relaxer leaves a calcium reside on the hair, can it not be removed with a chelating or detoxifying shampoo? For the ceramide technology to work, wouldn't the calcuim deposit have to be removed for the product to work effectively if at all? If that is indeed the case, what product to remove the buildup? It seems to me that a clarifying shampoo would not work; it would have to be something stronger?

And finally, at what point in the hair care (and especially relaxer) process would one use the ceramide product? Is it relax, rinse, neutralize, detox/chelate, ceramide, reconstruct, condition?Some other order?

I hope someone can help clear up some of my confusion. This has been a great thread, and I've learned so much from it, but I still need some clarification.


----------



## delp (Jun 22, 2007)

newflowers,

Most of your questions I can't answer. I wish I knew. I just put 2 and 2 together yesterday. I am still researching myself. But according to the Affirm fiberguard procedure they use it as an after relaxer/before neutralization step. Also, on the back of the bottle they recommend it for weekly treatments. For no lye, which need the proper moisture/protein balance, I guess this is critical. For lye, maybe, this is need only once every two weeks or so.Lye need a balance of light and hard protein. I think. I believe someone posted a thread on protein usage.

You have asked some great questions: Any CHEMIST on the board. Hair Guru? I wish I knew the answer. Please tell us the answer if you know or can deduce a reasonable answer.


----------



## Lioness (Jun 22, 2007)

LynnieB said:
			
		

> check post #25.
> 
> 
> 3-Octadecanediol IS a ceramide.



Thanks LynnieB!
*scribbling this down for the next time I'm stocking up on products*


----------



## Lioness (Jun 22, 2007)

delp said:
			
		

> Ceramide 3 (that is what is on the back of my fiberguard conditioner)



Thanks a lot Delp. This truly was a revelation! This is a TOP thread. I gave it 5 Stars.

I am really excited now :trampolin . When I take my braids out in a few weeks I am DEFINITELY going to use a conditioner and or leave in which contains Ceramides. I'm thinking about Matrix Biolage or Nexxus Humectress as my texlax was a No-Lye:scratchch


----------



## PacificPurinsesu (Jun 22, 2007)

This is awesome info! Wow, it totally makes sense! I am going to do a self challenge using products with Ceramides, and see if this helps with my split end problems! I use a no lye relaxer and want  healthy hair!


----------



## jasmin (Jun 22, 2007)

Can lye users benefit from ceramides?


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## SvelteVelvet (Jun 22, 2007)

Priestess said:
			
		

> Great thread. I'm glad I bought a tube of Keraphix and a tub of *Silicon Mix*. They both contain ceramides. Knowledge is power!


 
Oh yes!! I made a restock order yesterday and this thread made me order the 32 oz! Lol..The shampoo also contains the ceramides. I looked through my products at home too and I my Nexxus Botanoil shampoo has a nice little paragraph dedicated to ceramides on the back. And I believed this treatment shampoo as well as the Emergencee treatment did me well after my overlapping experience my last touch-up. This info makes so much sense and I feel a lot more confident about what I need when I'm buying and why.


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## schipperchow1 (Jun 22, 2007)

Delp, et al:  This is great info!  Thank you!

I never made the ceramide connection.  I wondered what it was & what it did.  But didn't give it much thought.  Not only does Nexxus & silicon mix have it, but 10en1 super cond has it listed as an ingredient as well.  Are ceramides in a lot of dominican conditioners?


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## Artemis (Jun 22, 2007)

*I hope I could give some sort of insight on this...*



			
				newflowers said:
			
		

> This is fabulous information. In my new arsenal of hair products, I have everything BUT ceramides. I've heard of them, but had no clue to the importance they play is caring for relaxed hair.
> 
> I have a few areas of confusion that I am hoping someone will be able to clear up. The first is the type of ceramide - the first articles calls is CR18; most of the products say Ceramide 3, except for the Lan'za which has Ceramide 2. The Lan'za articles further says that hair is "12% ceramide 1 and 88% ceramide 2." What then is ceramide 3 - is it a combination of both one and two? If one is to choose a product, which one? I have access to the professional products, but would not know which one to buy as the information is - well not conflicting, but certainly confusing.
> *I don't recall the date on the article, but I think Ceramide 3 is probably more advanced than 2 (All, if not most Nexxus products contain c-3), so while I can't answer the percentage question, I'd say any ceramide is better than no ceramide.*
> ...


----------



## delp (Jun 22, 2007)

artemis_e. said:
			
		

> *I hope I could give some sort of insight on this...*



Sounds good. Now my only question:
ceramide alone or ceramide w/wheat or light protein. Lye need protein but no lye user need protein and moisture. So, I am thinking the latter.


----------



## newflowers (Jun 22, 2007)

*



I hope I could give some sort of insight on this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by newflowers
And finally, at what point in the hair care (and especially relaxer) process would one use the ceramide product? Is it relax, rinse, neutralize, detox/chelate, ceramide, reconstruct, condition?Some other order? 
If it were me, I would use a product after rinsing the relaxer and before neutralizing, and then again during deep conditioning (similar to Pixel Lady's regimen). And then perhaps during styling or post-styling (daily moisturizer). Again, overkill is not a good look  .



Click to expand...

 
Thanks - that did help quite a bit. I am still in the research phase, but I am certainly going to try it. I do have Keraphix to use before and after relaxing. 

I spent some time last night reading about the Joico K-Pak Reconstructor, Keratase Forcintense, and Redken Deep Fuel. All are billed to be intensive treatments because of the ceramides and the proteins.

I have another question - 

When using any of these products during the relaxing process (after rinsing and after neutralizing for instance), will I still end of with my nice straight Phyto hair, or will the addition of extra protein make my hair hold a bit of curl/wave (like not complete the process or prevent the process from completing itself)? I'm really not adverse to a smidge of wave, but I am not certain how adding these products will change the process. 

As you can see, I'm still working to synthesize my new knowledge about the protein/treatment phase before, during, and after relaxer. *


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## delp (Jun 22, 2007)

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/4266/types.html
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/4266/hair.html

(repost from previous post/from a fellow member) Talks alot about lipids.


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## tnorenberg (Jun 22, 2007)

Ok, I did a product check. My Loreal Nutri Vive Shampoo & CO have ceramides and also La Bomba Conditioning Treatment. So we have at least 1 Dominican product that's ahead of the curve.


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## Artemis (Jun 22, 2007)

newflowers said:
			
		

> *Thanks - that did help quite a bit. I am still in the research phase, but I am certainly going to try it. I do have Keraphix to use before and after relaxing. *
> 
> *I spent some time last night reading about the Joico K-Pak Reconstructor, Keratase Forcintense, and Redken Deep Fuel. All are billed to be intensive treatments because of the ceramides and the proteins.*
> 
> ...


Yes, you should still have straight hair.

http://www.hair-science.com/_int/_en/topic/topic_sousrub.aspx?tc=ROOT-HAIR-SCIENCE^INFINITE-TRANSFORMATIONS^PLAYING-SHAPES&cur=PLAYING-SHAPES

Ahem...ok, let me see if I can explain this the way the real experts do...There are a few types of bonds that make up the hair strand. The bonds that are broken (I think are called "disulfide bonds") to curl or straighten the hair (depending on the chemical process that's chosen) are not the ones that ceramides work with. Ceramides and keratin proteins are there to maintain whatever structure the hair has taken after the chemical change occured, so "reversion" is not the protein's fault. You are just replacing what was lost in the chemical reaction. Sistaslick mentions this in some of her old threads (esp. the Breakage 101 thread) so feel free to search for more info.

Also, now that I think about it, I personally would more likely than not use the ceramides post relaxer (perhaps in a DC) and use silk proteins prior to and during the relaxer process, being that silk protein is stronger (check out Navsegda's thread on preventing relaxer damage using silk protein). It is my understanding ceramides pretty much benefit the cuticle, where as hydrolyzed keratin proteins and silk proteins actually penetrate the shaft...JMO


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## Creatividual (Jun 22, 2007)

biolage is great for ceramide technology. i used to use their fortifying conditioner and my hair always felt healthy, soft, and I had virtually no breakage.


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## newflowers (Jun 22, 2007)

artemis_e. said:
			
		

> Yes, you should still have straight hair.
> 
> http://www.hair-science.com/_int/_en/topic/topic_sousrub.aspx?tc=ROOT-HAIR-SCIENCE^INFINITE-TRANSFORMATIONS^PLAYING-SHAPES&cur=PLAYING-SHAPES
> 
> ...


 
Wow - I think I get it. The proteins added after the relaxer will not revert the hair; it will simply strengthen and replensih the amino acids/proteins lost during the relaxer process. I have Sistaslick and Nav printed and in my hair notebook - it's becoming the hair bible. I do have silk amino acids and silk peptide powder as well as hydrolyzed wheat and marine collagen. I was thinking it would be good to add a bit of each to the avc after rinsing the relaxer from my hair, but before using the neutralizing shampoo.

So let's see - apply silk before, apply relaxer, smooth, rinse, acv with proteins,rinse, neutralize, rinse, ceramids first then reconstructor, wait, rinse, leave-in, roller set, dry, and tada beautiful, strong hair (hopefully).

I must have dry hair, so do you think applying the silk amino acids the day before maybe? What do you think about using a chelating or detoxing shampoo after the neutralizing step? As you so wisely pointed out - there is a such thing as overkill, but... what about adding another smidge of silk protein to the conditioning phase? And lastly, in one of the links you sent, there was mention of using an acidifying conditioner at the very end to make sure that all cuticles are tightly closed - this is something like Porosity Control or Nexxus Ensure, right? Is the acidfying conditioner used after the reconstructor - like the final last step?

OMG - I am going to have the best hair in the world thanks to all of the ladies here. Artemis - thanks for your patience in helping me understand this.  

Come on July!


----------



## newflowers (Jun 22, 2007)

Delp- you are a wonder- thanks bunches for those links - super informative.

Vivacious - do you use the at home biolage ceramide treatment- the one that comes in the little tube? Or are you using the Pro4?


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## Artemis (Jun 22, 2007)

*Whew!!! Girl, you are killing me  I honestly didn't think I had acquired any knowledge from all the hours  I log on this board, but now you have proved that it is so...I'm glad all those late nights and time spent dawdling in my office didn't go to waste *

Ok...to address your post:



			
				newflowers said:
			
		

> Wow - I think I get it. The proteins added after the relaxer will not revert the hair; it will simply strengthen and replensih the amino acids/proteins lost during the relaxer process. I have Sistaslick and Nav printed and in my hair notebook - it's becoming the hair bible. I do have silk amino acids and silk peptide powder as well as hydrolyzed wheat and marine collagen. I was thinking it would be good to add a bit of each to the avc after rinsing the relaxer from my hair, but before using the neutralizing shampoo.
> 
> So let's see - apply silk before, apply relaxer, smooth, rinse, acv with proteins,rinse, neutralize, rinse, ceramides first then reconstructor, wait, rinse, leave-in, roller set, dry, and tada beautiful, strong hair (hopefully).
> *I guess you could do this, but I'd PM Sistaslick just to make sure; that's what I do  *
> ...


----------



## Artemis (Jun 22, 2007)

delp said:
			
		

> Sounds good. Now my only question:
> ceramide alone or ceramide w/wheat or light protein. Lye need protein but no lye user need protein and moisture. So, I am thinking the latter.


 
I agree w/the latter also. Wheat/light proteins encourage moisture while giving strength, so it's a win-win combo  .


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## newflowers (Jun 22, 2007)

Artemia - I think you shuld take the A+ for your LHCF grade. I am so sitting in the student seat right now. 

I will PM Sistaslick and ask about the order. 

The acv rinse is designed to lower the pH and make the neutralizing step easier. With Phyto, it can take many,many, many washes to get to the white suds. Arcadian uses Phyto too and she explained to me that with the avc rinse (10 parts water: one part avc), she gets to white suds within a couple of washes. I am looking forward to that. I thought about adding the proteins to the acv based upon this and another thread. I really like the idea of adding a strengthening step at several points. 

Okay, so I will need to go to the store again. I am going to get the Redken Deep Fuel and the Porosity Control - two more tiny little items to add to my list. 

Once again - Artemis, you have helped me tremendously, and I thank you very much.


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## SvelteVelvet (Jun 23, 2007)

tnorenberg said:
			
		

> Ok, I did a product check. My Loreal Nutri Vive Shampoo & CO have ceramides and also La Bomba Conditioning Treatment. So we have at least 1 Dominican product that's ahead of the curve.


 
Don't forget Silicon Mix!!


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## sareca (Jun 25, 2007)

There are also plant-derived ceramides.  They can be found in walnut oil and wheat germ oil. I'm sure there are others. These are just the two I know about.


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## Artemis (Jun 25, 2007)

Oh, and also "glycolipids". That's what is listed on my Joico products.


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## JazzyDez (Jun 25, 2007)

First of all, I love you guys!!!!!! Thanks for all your research and for sharing the info. This is good stuff  

I switched from no-lye to lye after reading shamboosie's book and also started using humectress and keraphix on a regular basis and let me tell you my hair has never been better and it hasn't been this long since before I started relaxing it in elementary school (it used to be real long).



			
				Pixel Lady said:
			
		

> Yep, ceramides are the bomb...they are the reason I mainly use Mizani and Redken.
> 
> When I t-up, after I rinse but before I neutralize I use UV Rescue Treat for 10mins...AMAZING results.
> 
> ...


 
Okay I quoted you because I never heard of keratin oil?!? added to relaxer??? off to do some research


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## mommatide (Jun 25, 2007)

*i just recently heard of ceramides when i visited a salon here in orlando. i went to give it and the stylist a look over,(she will be doing my next relaxer). anywho, she suggested that i use redkin anti-snap because it contains ceramides. i had no idea what that was at the time, but after reading this thread, that tells me she knows her stuff. she really likes affirm fiberguard no-lye and said she would use it on my hair this friday. so there is the connection with ceramides and no-lye*


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## jade998 (Jul 9, 2007)

Needed to bump this...

I am having dryness issuse after texlaxing with ORS no Lye.
I am new to this and some of this info has gone over my head 

Could some one give me a sample regime of what they think someone with a No Lye relaxer should be using with all this ceramide technology.

What do I clarify with and how often?
What do I pre poo with?
What do I shampoo with?
What do I DC with?
What do I use as a leave in?
Do I seal with Oil?
What lotion do I use/ what do I put after DC to my hair?
How do I maintain it on a daily basis?

I am soo scared to have my hair out, incase it breaks. It is doing well, but only because I am on the HYH challenge, however I am determined to enjoy my hair form next year onwards. I don't want to be afraid of touching my hair and I don't want my hair looking jacked up duer to not using the right products.

Thanks


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## Ladylynn (Jul 9, 2007)

This is a great thread!  To make sure I understand this correctly, I can use ceramides with a lye relaxer as well as reap great benefits.  I switched from lye to no-lye about a year ago due to underprocessing.  I have my underprocessing under control but now I am experiencing dry hair and very dry ends.  I am going to try ORS lye relaxer next, but I still would like to use ceramides just to make sure my hair will have a proper moisture/protein balance.


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## RabiaElaine (Jul 9, 2007)

Octyldodecanol is in Loreal Vive Pro Nutri Gloss Conditioner...is this the same as Ceramide 3?  If it is that's great because I just bought some.

Also does anyone know if you can conditioner wash daily with a ceramide conditioner without any problems??

This information is great and makes sooooooo much sense.  I read the Shamboosie book a few years ago and switched to using primarily Nexxus products.  My hair really thrived and was thick and growing.  I was using a nexxus shampoo (I can't remember which), Nexxus Humectress/Humectic (I'm using currently only because I got 2 big bottles at the BSS for $30), and Keraphix.  My hair was really strong and thick.


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## tapioca_pudding (Sep 8, 2007)

Bumping this up with a question:

Nexxus Phyto Organics Enphuse is the equivalent of Keraphix. So would this still be considered a Ceramide conditioner?

Also, since Im using a Lye conditioner, is there still the need to clarify/chelate during the rinsing process? Or is this necessary for NoLye users only?

Thanks so much!! Please yall.. I relax next week!!


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## Artemis (Sep 8, 2007)

kels823 said:


> Bumping this up with a question:
> 
> Nexxus Phyto Organics Enphuse is the equivalent of Keraphix. So would this still be considered a Ceramide conditioner?
> 
> ...


 
Just came back from the Nexxus site to answer your question 

*KerapHix*

*restorative protein crème reconstructor*

Dry, brittle, over-relaxed, and completely wrecked hair can’t help but soften up when faced with KERApHix’s restorative and nurturing ingredients. It may be ultra gentle to your hair but it’s unrelentingly tough on damage.

ingredients:
Water (Aqua), Stearalkonium Chloride, Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol, Mineral Oil, Keratin Amino Acids, Matricaria (Chamomilla Recutita) Extract, Hydrolyzed Collagen, Wheat Flour (Triticum Vulgare) Lipids, Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, Alpha-glucan Oligosaccharide, Panthenol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Magnesium Citrate, Manganese Citrate, Avocado (Persea Gratissima) Oil, Safflower (Carthamus Tinctorius) Oil, Soybean (Glycine Soja) Sterol, Ceramide 3, Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Myristic Acid, Palmitic Acid, Stearic Acid, Polysorbate 60, Sodium Chloride, Polyglyceryl-3 Distearate, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Petrolatum, Disodium Edta, Dmdm Hydantoin, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Dna, Rna, Polyquaternium-10, Zinc Chloride, Citric Acid, Propylene Glycol, Methylparaben, Fragrance (Parfum). 

*Enphuse*

*intensive reconstructor*

The ultimate reconstruction tool. This advanced hair therapy treatment adds softness, elasticity, and shine to even the most severely damaged hair.

ingredients:
Water (Aqua), Behentrimonium Chloride, Cetearyl Alcohol, Cyclomethicone, Trimethylsilylamodimethicone, Hydrolyzed Quinoa (Chenopodium Quinoa) Protein, Burdock (Arctium Lappa) Extract, Blessed Thistle (Carbenia Benedicta) Extract, Alfalfa (Medicago Sativa) Extract, Cohune Seed (Orbignya Cohune) Oil Extract, Cohune (Orbignya Cohune) Seed Oil, Panthenol, Aromatherapy Fragrance (Parfum) with Essential Oils of: Vanilla Planifolia Fruit, Fennel (Foeniculum Vulgare), Mimosa Tenuiflora; Glycerin, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Octyldodecyl Ricinoleate, Polyquaternium-37, C11-C15 Pareth-7, Laureth-9, Trideceth-12, PEG-150 Distearate, PPG-1 Trideceth-6, Propylene Glycol Dicaprylate/Dicaprate, Dimethiconol Stearate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Citric Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Propylene Glycol



Enphuse doesn't contain ceramides, but that doesn't mean it's not a fabulous reconstructor! I think you should still use it. Heck, use it as your mid-relaxer protein step. I bet your hair will feel awesome.

Also, from what I have read, some no-lye ladies have chelated, but do so that first wash after the touch up...you may want to seek Sistaslick's expertise on that one, as I am just wrapping my brain around the concept that no-lye doesn't have to damage your hair  *flashing back to my childhood  *


----------



## tapioca_pudding (Sep 8, 2007)

Artemis - Thank you SO SO SO SO much!!!!!!!   I havent used this Enphuse yet but Im very excited about it. Im def. gonna go ahead and use it as my mid-relaxer protein and see what I get. 

Thank you for this thread and all the info you contributed!!


----------



## Artemis (Sep 8, 2007)

kels823 said:


> Artemis - Thank you SO SO SO SO much!!!!!!!   I havent used this Enphuse yet but Im very excited about it. Im def. gonna go ahead and use it as my mid-relaxer protein and see what I get.
> 
> Thank you for this thread and all the info you contributed!!


 
Aww  You're very welcome


----------



## Artemis (Sep 8, 2007)

Ok, I just re-read this thread and since then I've learned a lot a/b no-lye relaxers (thanks to Sistaslick's lovely articles).

For those that use no-lye relaxers and want to incorporate ceramides into your regimen, please keep in mind that ceramides are meant for more cuticle-binding purposes in regards to the hair shaft. The wash day after the relaxer is the perfect time to incorporate the ceramide-containing products into your regimen, considering using a chelating 'poo that day will rid your hair of most, if not all the deposits, and leave your hair with a clean slate and prepping it for the ultimate conditioning experience. (Now, this isn't to say that you cannot use a ceramide product on wash day!) Proteins and moisturizers are still necessary to help support the integrity of the hair post-relaxer (esp. hydrolyzed silk and wheat proteins that actually enter the shaft), but you can totally think of ceramides as a bonus ingredient to help nourish the strand after such an invasive process. Furthermore, using ceramide products throughout the relaxer cycle (those weeks between relaxer sessions) can help fortify the strands so that less damage will occur on the next touch up day 

Lye users can still benefit from the strengthening properties of this ingredient as well, but I wanted to post this for no-lye users as calcium deposits/dryness, etc can be a concern for no-lye users.

Hope this made some sort of sense  If not, I know someone will come in here and tell me a/b myself! J/k


----------



## Soliel185 (Sep 8, 2007)

This makes sense to me. I relaxed using ORS no-lye and I understood from previous experience that I would need protien to keep my hair strong. But I found that every "strengthening" shampoo and conditioner or protien treatment left my hair extremely dry and tangled, but no matter how many times I used moisturizing agents my hair never got "mushy" or over moisturized. I would still have problems with breakage, but it was mostly minor. Ceremides seems like they'd fit right in the middle between the moisture my hair loves, and the protien it needs.


----------



## Artemis (Sep 8, 2007)

Soliel185 said:


> This makes sense to me. I relaxed using ORS no-lye and I understood from previous experience that I would need protien to keep my hair strong. *But I found that every "strengthening" shampoo and conditioner or protien treatment left my hair extremely dry and tangled, but no matter how many times I used moisturizing agents my hair never got "mushy" or over moisturized.* I would still have problems with breakage, but it was mostly minor. Ceremides seems like they'd fit right in the middle between the moisture my hair loves, and the protien it needs.


 
You should also try a chelating shampoo  That would help the protein and moisture "stick"


----------



## SpiritJunkie (Sep 15, 2007)

*Artemis & Delp or anyone else who is an expert*: You are soo full of great information! I really needed this thread.

I just bought Affirm Fibreguard :

firbeguard preservo strengthing serum
fibreguard relaxer
*Affirm 5 n 1 reconstructor*
firberguard normalizing shampoo
I didn't buy the *Fibreguard Sustenance* (step 3) for no lye process because it was double the price and I spent so much already. So I bought the Affirm lye relaxer step 3.

Will i still receive the same benefit? Should i bite the bullet and get Sustenance?

your advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!!

thanks..


----------



## Neroli (Sep 15, 2007)

Wow, I don't know how I missed this thread.  Excellent information all the way around and yet another confirmation for me on why nexxus classic line remains my hair's beloved.  Therappe, humectress, keraphix, headdress all contain ceramide 3!  I've tried nexxus new stuff, but my hair no likey and I RAN back to my old loves.

This makes soooo much sense.  I was a nexxus girl before coming to the hair boards, when I was ignorant about hair care in general and basically abused my hair, these products ALWAYS made my hair feel good.


----------



## Artemis (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey Sweetg! Thanks for the heads up  You're so sweet to give such a nice compliment. I feel like I am still learning from the real experts in here (like Pixel Lady and Sistaslick!! Those are the real brains of the operation  )

Anywho:

I just came from the Avlon site, and it seems to me like they are very similar products (I have never used Affirm before) so you should be fine. Be sure to watch for any changes throughout the week, although I don't anticipate there will be any. Both products are considered to be mid-relaxer protein steps which are helpful to the hair regardless if you use no-lye or lye relaxers.

You will be deep conditioning after using the neutralizing shampoo as well, correct? For extra pliability if you have a deep conditioner w/ceramides laying around, that would be the time to use it. If you do experience any dryness issues after relaxer day, then just use a chelating shampoo on the next wash day.

HTH 



Sweetg said:


> Artemis: You are soo full of great information! I really needed this thread.
> 
> I just bought Affirm Fibreguard :
> 
> ...


----------



## SpiritJunkie (Sep 16, 2007)

thanks so much for responding!! i'm learning so so much on the science of our hair.

I have alot of conditioners dom and otherwise so one of them must have cermides in it.


thanks again!!!


----------



## Artemis (Sep 16, 2007)

Sweetg said:


> thanks so much for responding!! i'm learning so so much on the science of our hair.
> 
> I have alot of conditioners dom and otherwise so one of them must have cermides in it.
> 
> ...


 
No prob! Don't forget to check your daily moisturizers, if you use them. Ceramides are effective in those products as well.


----------



## LABETT (Sep 16, 2007)

I am glad this thread was revised again really good info.
I am glad I use products that contain ceramides.


----------



## natieya (Sep 21, 2007)

delp said:


> *I am no way an expert so I invite others to chime in.*
> 
> When I was reading the book Shamboosie (sp): I remember the advice given was 1. to switch to lye from no lye. 2. If you  use lye then protein is needed and 3. if you use no-lye "moisture" was needed. 4. They advocated keraphix/ (humectress) was the only solution to no lye users..
> 
> ...




Has anyone used Kerastase Vita Ciment or Matrix Biolage Cera Repair Hydratherapie? I really am interested in these products.  TIA!!!


----------



## natieya (Sep 23, 2007)

Bumping! Anyone used Vita Ciment or Cera Repair Hydratherapie?


----------



## sareca (Sep 23, 2007)

I love this thread.


----------



## InnerSoul (Sep 23, 2007)

I knew that I loved Nexxus for a reason!


----------



## Supergirl (Sep 24, 2007)

Ladies,

Ceramides are excellent, but one note--expect to clarify your hair more often with them.  I don't know why, but this has been my experience over the years.


----------



## DivaRox (Sep 24, 2007)

Just popping in to say that I have gotten so much useful info from this thread. I'm glad to see it is still going. 

Thanks supergirl, one of the lines I alternate with ceramide(mizani) also has a puriphying poo that I use to clarify with. I hope that counts


----------



## Neroli (Sep 24, 2007)

Supergirl said:


> Ladies,
> 
> Ceramides are excellent, but one note--expect to clarify your hair more often with them.  I don't know why, but this has been my experience over the years.



Why do you think that is?

I've used nexxus therappe poo, humectress condish and headress leave-in for over 20 years, all contain ceramide 3, and never had a need to clarify.  Indeed, I use them now that I'm more hair educated, specifically because they do not contain any 'cones and I never have a need to clarify whatsoever.


----------



## kitkat3ny (Sep 24, 2007)

I notice that Nexxus Humectress has mineral oil in it.  My hair doesn't do well w/ minerol oil.  Does anyone who can not stand mineral oil still see a great moisturizing benefit from humectress?  Last time I tried it, it didn't moisturize my hair.


----------



## Candy_C (Sep 24, 2007)

the dominican version of sunsilk contains ceramides


----------



## Neroli (Sep 24, 2007)

kitkat3ny said:


> I notice that Nexxus Humectress has mineral oil in it.  My hair doesn't do well w/ minerol oil.  Does anyone who can not stand mineral oil still see a great moisturizing benefit from humectress?  Last time I tried it, it didn't moisturize my hair.



My hair LOVES humectress.  It is the one product I would chose if I could only have one.  I know some folks avoid mineral oil like the the plaque, but I don't.  The thing that my hair really hates is 'cones and I actively read ingredients to avoid those specifically.  

Our hair are as individual as we are!


----------



## natieya (Sep 26, 2007)

See question below: 



natieya said:


> Bumping! Anyone used Vita Ciment or Cera Repair Hydratherapie?


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Sep 27, 2007)

My stylist just recommended FiberGuard sensitive scalp, she said it's better for fine hair!! I think it's no lye WRONG, it's LYE ....but I am going to follow her recommendation because I know one other stylist used sensitive scalp for me before with great results. I'll just clairify once per month or so.

ETA- talked with my stylist and she assured me she does not use no lye relaxers....whew!  So Fiberguard it is for me!



Keclee23 said:


> Delp-
> 
> Does the book state why he recommends switching to a lye relaxer? I curious because I currently use Affirm Sensitive Scalp relaxer which is a guanidine hydroxide (aka no-lye) relaxer as opposed to the sodium hydroxide (lye relaxer) Affirm original.
> 
> I do remember though when my stylist used the Affirm original (lye formula) on my hair, my hair seemed to have moisture, but it was thin and I had a lot of shedding & breakage (my scalp was also always dry and tight) Because of that I switched stylist and she used the Sensitive scalp relaxer along with the dry & itchy scalp con/shampoo line and my hair over a period of a year became thick and grew like a race champ.


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Sep 27, 2007)

Another confirmation, I am getting this relaxer on next Tuesday 



mommatide said:


> *i just recently heard of ceramides when i visited a salon here in orlando. i went to give it and the stylist a look over,(she will be doing my next relaxer). anywho, she suggested that i use redkin anti-snap because it contains ceramides. i had no idea what that was at the time, but after reading this thread, that tells me she knows her stuff. she really likes affirm fiberguard no-lye and said she would use it on my hair this friday. so there is the connection with ceramides and no-lye*


----------



## kitkat3ny (Sep 27, 2007)

Is there a difference between Affirm and Fiberguard?  If so, which of the two have a relaxer system that centers around ceramide?


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Sep 27, 2007)

kitkat3ny said:


> Is there a difference between Affirm and Fiberguard? If so, which of the two have a relaxer system that centers around ceramide?


Affirm as a line of relaxers and one of the is Fiberguard.  I'm not sure if it contains ceramides or not, but the relaxer comes highly recommeded.  I am going to get one next Tuesday.


----------



## InnerSoul (Sep 27, 2007)

Neroli said:


> My hair LOVES humectress. It is the one product I would chose if I could only have one. I know some folks avoid mineral oil like the the plaque, but I don't. The thing that my hair really hates is 'cones and I actively read ingredients to avoid those specifically.
> 
> Our hair are as individual as we are!


 
co-signing!

Although I am not a fan of mineral oil...Nexxus humectress is just wonderful to my hair. I could see if I was pouring straight mineral oil on my hair but in the Nexxus products...it is mixed with so many other goodies that you can't tell the mineral oil is in it.


----------



## chicacanella (Sep 27, 2007)

So, say I am going to get a Dudley's Sensitive Scalp relaxer which is no-lye.

First I coat my prerelaxed hair with Porosity Control Conditioner, as my stylist does a deep protein treatment one week before anyway.

Then can I remove the build up through shampoo and chelate a week later cause my hair is going to be styled and I don't want to mess the rollerset up right after getting it.


And does anyone know why your hair seem flat after getting a fresh no-lye relaxer and then weeks later it comes back to life?


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Sep 27, 2007)

LynnieB said:


> and for the budget conscious :
> 
> there's an entire optimum care line devoted to ceramides:
> 
> ...


Go Head Girl!!! You talkin to me! LOL :bouncegre


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Sep 27, 2007)

I have a question is Cetrimonium Chloride the same as ceramides?

I notice Ceritmonium Chloride in a lot of the domican products and others as well.


----------



## scorpian (Sep 27, 2007)

AtlantaJJ said:


> I have a question is Cetrimonium Chloride the same as ceramides?
> 
> I notice Ceritmonium Chloride in a lot of the domican products and others as well.



That's a good question I am not sure but...I looked up the word and came up with a long list of products that have this..mostly conditioners

here is what is says in the description
Description*Clear liquid.         *


*Uses*

                  Cetrimonium chloride is used as a hair conditioner, fabric softener,         and anti-static agent for hair and fibers.         
         It makes fabrics and hair less prone to static electricity buildup         by making them slightly conductive.


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Sep 27, 2007)

scorpian said:


> That's a good question I am not sure but...I looked up the word and came up with a long list of products that have this..mostly conditioners
> 
> here is what is says in the description
> Description*Clear liquid. *
> ...



Thank you! I love your shinny hair


----------



## gymfreak336 (Sep 28, 2007)

Loreal Pro. Color line has ceramides. this is the line in the pink bottles with red writing.


----------



## LiLi (Sep 28, 2007)

AtlantaJJ said:


> My stylist just recommended FiberGuard sensitive scalp, she said it's better for fine hair!! I think it's no lye WRONG, it's LYE ....but I am going to follow her recommendation because I know one other stylist used sensitive scalp for me before with great results. I'll just clairify once per month or so.
> 
> ETA- talked with my stylist and she assured me she does not use no lye relaxers....whew! So Fiberguard it is for me!


 
Just wanted to let you know that Fiberguard Sensitive scalp *is* a no-lye product.  Fiberguard is made in lye and no-lye versions.  I know because I used both for several years.  If your stylist told you that the sensitive scalp is a lye product, she is wrong.


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Sep 28, 2007)

LiLi said:


> Just wanted to let you know that Fiberguard Sensitive scalp *is* a no-lye product. Fiberguard is made in lye and no-lye versions. I know because I used both for several years. If your stylist told you that the sensitive scalp is a lye product, she is wrong.


 
Uh-Oh, am I going to have to make her let me read the jar! Does the no-lye require mixing like the others? If I see her mixing I'm going to get up and run out of there   Dag!
Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Sep 28, 2007)

LiLi said:


> Just wanted to let you know that Fiberguard Sensitive scalp *is* a no-lye product. Fiberguard is made in lye and no-lye versions. I know because I used both for several years. If your stylist told you that the sensitive scalp is a lye product, she is wrong.


 
What would be best for cottony soft, fine 4a/b hair with major shrinkage? I did an Affirm relaxer years ago and my hair was beautiful with it! But that was like 8 or 9 years ago....So I have lost track of that stylist...I have been wearing braids, weaves and now wigs since....  I want to wear my hair now


----------



## kitkat3ny (Oct 11, 2007)

sareca said:


> There are also plant-derived ceramides.  They can be found in walnut oil and wheat germ oil. I'm sure there are others. These are just the two I know about.




Aubrey Organics GPB and HoneySuckle rose have wheat germ oil as one of their main ingredients.  Perhaps this is why these products are so beneficial?  Is wheat germ oil the organic counterpart to ceramides and glycolipids?


----------



## kitkat3ny (Oct 12, 2007)

Just bumping.


----------



## newflowers (Nov 9, 2007)

Just bumping too.


----------



## LadyZ (Dec 17, 2007)

artemis_e. said:


> Ok, I just re-read this thread and since then I've learned a lot a/b no-lye relaxers (thanks to Sistaslick's lovely articles).
> 
> For those that use no-lye relaxers and want to incorporate ceramides into your regimen, please keep in mind that ceramides are meant for more cuticle-binding purposes in regards to the hair shaft. The wash day after the relaxer is the perfect time to incorporate the ceramide-containing products into your regimen, considering using a chelating 'poo that day will rid your hair of most, if not all the deposits, and leave your hair with a clean slate and prepping it for the ultimate conditioning experience. (Now, this isn't to say that you cannot use a ceramide product on wash day!) Proteins and moisturizers are still necessary to help support the integrity of the hair post-relaxer (esp. hydrolyzed silk and wheat proteins that actually enter the shaft), but you can totally think of ceramides as a bonus ingredient to help nourish the strand after such an invasive process. Furthermore, using ceramide products throughout the relaxer cycle (those weeks between relaxer sessions) can help fortify the strands so that less damage will occur on the next touch up day
> 
> ...


===========

This is some excellent advise...

Any updates?

I am printing some of this out....

Great info....


----------



## MuslimahTresses (Jan 6, 2008)

bumping


----------



## tinkat (Jan 6, 2008)

This is interesting. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## krissynick (Jan 6, 2008)

this is great information but it very overwhelming. I have been using no lye because its really is more gentler on my scalp and now i see how its more prone to moisture lost and im disappointed. But what is a girl to do go back to lye relaxers and ahve her scalp burned only to retain moisture.... There has to be another way... that no lye users can continue to use no lye and not worry about moisture lost. i peronsally havent seen any wrong with my hair from no lye cause i know i have to moisture my hair just cause of the type of hair i have... the only breakage in my hair ive seen was because i didnt know how to detagle properly and use the right products.. now my hair is fine.... truth is there has to be an alternative approach cause some ppl scalp will not tolerate lye relaxers..


----------



## gymfreak336 (Jan 6, 2008)

krissynick said:


> this is great information but it very overwhelming. I have been using no lye because its really is more gentler on my scalp and now i see how its more prone to moisture lost and im disappointed. But what is a girl to do go back to lye relaxers and ahve her scalp burned only to retain moisture.... There has to be another way... that no lye users can continue to use no lye and not worry about moisture lost. i peronsally havent seen any wrong with my hair from no lye cause i know i have to moisture my hair just cause of the type of hair i have... the only breakage in my hair ive seen was because i didnt know how to detagle properly and use the right products.. now my hair is fine.... truth is there has to be an alternative approach cause some ppl scalp will not tolerate lye relaxers..




One of the keys of no lye users is to use a chelating shampoo. The dryness comes from mineral deposits. Chelating shampoo can help remove these.


----------



## krissynick (Jan 6, 2008)

OKay my bad i dont think i read all the post. there is a way... this is really great info and what i have found is that .. a lot o products like soft sheen carson and optimum has ceramides .... which is great .. they are not that expensive... man are we on our way to really healthy hair or not. This with indirect heat and protective styling watch out lol .............we are on a roll


----------



## PureSilver (Jan 6, 2008)

delp said:


> I am not an expert but stick with what works. Maybe just keep this info in mind. Change up your regime.
> 
> http://www.growafrohairlong.com/perms.html
> 
> ...


 
This really shed some light in my dark mind re: relaxers, THANK U


----------



## Isis (Feb 3, 2008)

krissynick said:


> this is great information but it very overwhelming. I have been using no lye because its really is more gentler on my scalp and now i see how its more prone to moisture lost and im disappointed. But what is a girl to do go back to lye relaxers and ahve her scalp burned only to retain moisture.... There has to be another way... that no lye users can continue to use no lye and not worry about moisture lost. i peronsally havent seen any wrong with my hair from no lye cause i know i have to moisture my hair just cause of the type of hair i have... the only breakage in my hair ive seen was because i didnt know how to detagle properly and use the right products.. now my hair is fine.... truth is there has to be an alternative approach cause some ppl scalp will not tolerate lye relaxers..


I've only used no-lye relaxers and it works great for me.  I understand it may need more moisture but I get that easily from washing 2x each week (Cathy Howse original method for no-lye). Even before this hair journey, I used no-lye without problems because of dry hair--mine was not having any knowledge about hair care.


----------



## Firstborn2 (Feb 3, 2008)

I've been up until the wee hours of the morning reading this thread from start to finish, you ladies are truely amazing. Even though I don't have a relaxer, I feel like I can still benefit from the information as I have been thinking about relaxing my hair once I reach my final hair goal. The knowledge you ladies have is priceless. best $5.00 I ever spent.


----------



## MrsBKJ (Feb 4, 2008)

Ok Im going to have to buy some of that biolage stuff now!
Thank you delp for this it has really helped and totally makes sense. 
My hair loves humectress, this will really also help the PJ in me!!!

thank you

Uzz


----------



## Lioness (Feb 7, 2008)

Anyone have any new updates?


----------



## cocoagirl (Feb 23, 2008)

bumping for Islandgurrl


----------



## Empress Yahudah (Feb 23, 2008)

I use lye relaxer but still get great benefits of using ceramides. My hair stays moisturized longer and feels juicy or plump if that makes sence. I use Nexxus Color Ensure replenishing conditioner/detangler. I realy love it. It is pH3, has ceramide-3, and other yummy ingredients.


----------



## caribgirl (Apr 4, 2008)

WOW, I love this thread!!! 

Does anyone have a compiled list of products (poos,cons, leave-ins) that contain ceramides? We can make a sticky of it for future reference.


----------



## bbdgirl (Apr 15, 2008)

Garnier has a DC, strength and repair with acocado oil and Ceramides, $3 at Target


----------



## Lioness (Apr 15, 2008)

I used L'Oreal Professional Shampoo with ceramide 3 and my hair felt verrry strong, but I had to DC straight away as my hair felt strong but stiff.

I'll keep a look out for more products containing Ceramides because they clearly improve the hair.


----------



## bbdgirl (Apr 15, 2008)

yeah, the ceramides are def the way to go.  This gives me a reason to finally check out Nexxus products.  I 'm a big PJ but I am really cheap and rarely buy more expensive products but now I def want to try out Redken's Extreme strength and/or Suave's professional knock off of Redken's line


----------



## Cinda2503 (Apr 15, 2008)

I use Nexxus products.  While I am disappointed with the shampoo.  It has sulfates in it which leaves my hair so hard. although I have just recently given up on shampoos all together.  I co-wash only now.)   I love their conditioners.  I use Humectress and Keraphix.  My hair is definitely stronger.  The Humectress was $8 I think.  The Kerpahix was $16-18.  That's what I don't like. so if I can get the same technology with Garnier for $3 I'll have to try that when I run out of the Nexxus.


----------



## Aggie (Apr 18, 2008)

I use the Biolage Cera-Repair Hydratherapie and the Fortetherapie for home use and the professional one. They are both really great, leaves my hair very soft and manageable and gives my hair a lot of slip.


----------



## IWantBSl09 (Jun 1, 2008)

I am so glad you made a post about this! Last week I bought both Nexxus and Biolage and cant wait to use them in June! I really hope they help. Will these ceramides be good for people who stretch their relaxers? I'm going to try and stretch my relaxer for another 5 weeks (which will make it 16). Now I read that chelating shampoo is better than a clarifying shampoo because of how it binds to the mineral deposits making it better to remove them from the hair...now would anyone happen to know of a good CHELATIN Shampoo...man my wallet is just getting smaller and smaller lol


----------



## Lucky's Mom (Aug 14, 2008)

OK Girls!!! Any Updates?


----------



## TexturedTresses (Aug 14, 2008)

Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  I'm going to go searching for organic products with ceramides......... whatever that is.


----------



## The Princess (Aug 15, 2008)

pinkskates said:


> To answer your question:
> I have his book and on page 151 Shamboosie states:
> Contrary to popular belief, a conditioning lye relaxer is the best relaxer for your hair and scalp. It will leave the hair silkier and softer by conditioning as it relaxes the hair. The conditioning lye relaxer allows the hair to receive the moisture from conditioners it needs to retain its softness and to remain pliable. There is no calcium buildup and no extreme dryness, which you will always get with a no-lye relaxer. The conditioning Lye relaxer leaves the cuticle layer of the hair healthier with every application (and this is no lie).
> 
> The biggest problem with the No-Lye relaxer is that the calcium buildup locks the hair, sealing the cuticle, and will not allow the hair to receive the moisture from shampoos and conditioners it needs to remain soft to the touch, pliable and capable of holding its curl and style.


 


This is a great thread, I notice this when I immediately switch to Lye relaxers, my hair is always soft now. I read his book also, and this was one of the reason I switched over, and Im glad I did. Also comming to this site I learned alot about proper hair care.  When using no-lye I had to almost put a whole bottle of moisturizer on my hair just for it to feel soft, I mean my ends were crunchy and everything. Lye IMO is good for the hair with maintaing moisturizer and softness.


----------



## butterfly_wings (Aug 15, 2008)

Ok I just bought
L'Oreal Elvive Repairing Concentrate Anti Breakage Leave In Treatment

Concentrated Ceramide Cement (X10)

Hope this make my hair strong!!


----------



## Christelyn (Aug 15, 2008)

You may be on to something.  I just purchased an obscenely expensive product from Fekkai--a PM protein repair with ceramide technology as well.  It costs $65.  Normally, I would never purchase something so pricey, but the customer reviews on this stuff was unbelievable.  This is my first week using it so it remains to be seen on how it reacts to my hair, but so far, I'm seeing less breakage from manipulation and my ends are remarkably smoother.


----------



## thinkpinkprincess (Aug 16, 2008)

Christelyn said:


> You may be on to something. I just purchased an obscenely expensive product from Fekkai--a PM protein repair with ceramide technology as well. It costs $65. Normally, I would never purchase something so pricey, but the customer reviews on this stuff was unbelievable. This is my first week using it so it remains to be seen on how it reacts to my hair, but so far, I'm seeing less breakage from manipulation and my ends are remarkably smoother.


 
sooo was it worth the money??


----------



## shortee (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks ladies for all this interesting info.


----------



## FluffyRed (Aug 19, 2008)

This is worth trying...

I have, a few times, had super hard, crunchy hair after a relaxer

I don't know what caused it.  Not even aware if it was between switching from lye to no-lye.

Ceramides, here i come!


----------



## HeChangedMyName (Aug 19, 2008)

Interesting.  No wonder why my hair has been a mess.  I have always used no-lye because my experience with lye, led to my hair being extremely thin and it broke easily.  Now I don't plan on switching to lye, at least not yet, but I know what to do to make my hair stay on point.  This is probably why my hair LOVES silicon mix treatment.


----------



## jahzyira (Aug 19, 2008)

........................


----------



## genesis132 (Feb 19, 2009)

any updates ladies?


----------



## Daisimae (Jun 2, 2009)

I had to dig back to find this so...Bump!


----------



## AtlantaJJ (Jun 2, 2009)

Good thread, this is going into the file....


----------



## taz007 (Jun 2, 2009)

Subscribing ....


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## IDareT'sHair (Jun 2, 2009)

Extemely Informative Thread.  I snuck and read it at the Office today.  It explains alot and it answers alot of questions that may have seemed evasive as far as:  _"Why is my Hair so Dry after Relaxing" Why is my Hair dull, brittle etc.....That's why I am bumping this again_.There are plenty of Ladies that Can Greatly Benefit from the Information in this Thread.  

Threads Like this is when the Dialogue was totally "Serious" about Errrbody Gettin' Some Healthy Hair.  Researched Based Information.

I have Shamboosie's book as well, and while I don't agree with everything in it, he made some valid points about lye & no lye, Moisture & Protein, Ceramides.

And Of Course, He is Not as Knowledgable as We All are on Certain Topics.


----------



## SpiritJunkie (Jun 8, 2009)

AtlantaJJ said:


> Good thread, this is going into the file....


 
Hey there!!

Are you still using Affirm no lye?

Iim trying to figure out what to do.  I'm retaining my length but dyam my hair is dry..i frequently dc and wash 2wice a week.

I'm thinking of changing to Affirm Lye.  Just curious to what you did.

TIA!


----------



## *Muffin* (Jun 8, 2009)

Okay, because I'm simple I had to look up exactly what a ceramide is.

Ceramides are natural lipids (fats) and a major component of skin structure. These fats allow skin to retain moisture. Moisturizers and other beauty products contain synthetic ceramides to replace those lost in the aging process. [] (taken from WebMD)

I also found out from Wikipedia that ceramides are found in the cell membrane of cells.  Additionally, I tried to figure out what natural things contain ceramides, and so far my searches are telling me that Essential Fatty Acids have them, and one oil that I found out that contains them naturally is hemp oil.  Do all natural oils have ceramides?


----------



## Stepiphanie (Aug 20, 2009)

This is a wonderful thread. Thanx for the info ladies!! BUMP...


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## msa (Sep 21, 2009)




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## GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I (Sep 21, 2009)

Sedal has ceramide shampoos, conditioners and leave-ins.  You usually find it at the Latino section of the grocery store or pharmacy.  I'm going to pj again and get some old Sedal.


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## deusa80 (Sep 22, 2009)

Great thread...I'm suscribing...


I'm thinking using no-lye might be one of the reasons for my dryness..
What's the best way to transition from no-lye to lye?
Pre-lhcf when I didn't know there was a difference between the two I would just switch up whenever I liked, I'm guessing that's not the best way to do it


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## Barbie83 (Sep 22, 2009)

deusa80 said:


> Great thread...I'm suscribing...
> 
> 
> I'm thinking using no-lye might be one of the reasons for my dryness..
> ...



I just made the switch back to lye and it has DEFINITELY made a difference in the way my hair feels and looks. 

I think the best way to switch would simply be to stretch as long as you can before you relax with the lye relaxer (I waited 15 weeks). And be sure to do a protein treatment (Aphogee 2 minute) 1 week before and maybe also during the relaxer process (before neutralizing) I did this and my results were fantastic.


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## deusa80 (Sep 22, 2009)

Barbie83 said:


> I just made the switch back to lye and it has DEFINITELY made a difference in the way my hair feels and looks.
> 
> I think the best way to switch would simply be to stretch as long as you can before you relax with the lye relaxer (I waited 15 weeks). And be sure to do a protein treatment (Aphogee 2 minute) 1 week before and maybe also during the relaxer process (before neutralizing) I did this and my results were fantastic.


 

Thanks! I'm working on stretching my relaxers longer anyway... I'm going to try a lye relaxer next time and see if I notice any difference.
Now I have to work on finding a good no lye relaxer...  which one did you use?


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## msbettyboop (Nov 8, 2009)

Barbie83 said:


> I just made the switch back to lye and it has DEFINITELY made a difference in the way my hair feels and looks.
> 
> I think the best way to switch would simply be to stretch as long as you can before you relax with the lye relaxer (I waited 15 weeks). And be sure to do a protein treatment (Aphogee 2 minute) 1 week before and maybe also during the relaxer process (before neutralizing) I did this and my results were fantastic.



This thread is FANTASTIC. I'm about to cut off 2 inches of damaged hair that cannot be saved and go on a 6 month stretch while I compile information on how not to destroy my hair when it grows back. Musing between lye and no lye is on the list. No lye used to burn my head like crazy when I was a teenager and I use ORS olive oil now. I think this thread has helped me to make an informed decision on this one. LHCF is awesome!


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## EleganceUnleashed (Nov 8, 2009)




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## CaliDiamond (Nov 8, 2009)

I'm a lifetime no-lye user because my scalp is VERY sensitive.  As I read this post, I realized that my hair holds a lot more moisture since I have been using the Dominican conditioners.  I checked the ingredients and all of the ones I own have ceramides! Thank you for this post!


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## PDub (Nov 23, 2009)

Subscribing........


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## HeChangedMyName (Nov 23, 2009)

Oh ok.  soooo, I bought some Sedal Ceramidas a while back, not knowing how to use it,  But now I know, I really need to be using it on my no lye relaxed hair.  Thanks!!!


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## Precious_P (Nov 29, 2009)

Wow,
There is so much info in this thread.  I just swtiched from no-lye to lye because my hair was dry (even with cheleating).
Thanks for the info ladies!


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## sharifeh (Nov 29, 2009)

LovelyLionessa said:


> Great thread.  I'm glad I bought a tube of Keraphix and a tub of Silicon Mix.  They both contain ceramides.  Knowledge is power!



*I have silicon mix This is so interesting!!
*


Artemis said:


> Ok, I just re-read this thread and since then I've learned a lot a/b no-lye relaxers (thanks to Sistaslick's lovely articles).
> 
> For those that use no-lye relaxers and want to incorporate ceramides into your regimen, please keep in mind that ceramides are meant for more cuticle-binding purposes in regards to the hair shaft. The wash day after the relaxer is the perfect time to incorporate the ceramide-containing products into your regimen, considering using a chelating 'poo that day will rid your hair of most, if not all the deposits, and leave your hair with a clean slate and prepping it for the ultimate conditioning experience. (Now, this isn't to say that you cannot use a ceramide product on wash day!) Proteins and moisturizers are still necessary to help support the integrity of the hair post-relaxer (esp. hydrolyzed silk and wheat proteins that actually enter the shaft), but you can totally think of ceramides as a bonus ingredient to help nourish the strand after such an invasive process. Furthermore, using ceramide products throughout the relaxer cycle (those weeks between relaxer sessions) can help fortify the strands so that less damage will occur on the next touch up day
> 
> ...




Hmmm, can someone explain this?
also where do ceramides stand for lye users??


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## sharifeh (Dec 9, 2009)

I have to bump this to ask: do lye users benefit from ceramides too???
Or is this mainly for no lye users...


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## IDareT'sHair (Dec 9, 2009)

As a Lye User, I used Matrix Biolage Ceramides Cera-Repair the first time last wash-day.  

I used it after my DC Treatment prior to my Final Rinse.  I felt my hair dried softer and my NG appeared more managable & Shiny.

I plan to incorporate Ceramides possibly weekly at first and gauge my results then decide how I can benefit long-term from incorporating this product.


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## sharifeh (Dec 9, 2009)

Thanks!!

what exactly is that matrix product? is that a DC?


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## Vintageglam (Dec 21, 2009)

sharifeh said:


> Thanks!!
> 
> what exactly is that matrix product? is that a DC?




Here are the products (you can buy them in tubes or vials).  I have both.  I think the Vials (small bottles) are the "Salon" formula so use these left often when I really need a boost - i.e. 1x month.  The tubes I think are good for weekly use.  You just add them to your DC or final conditioning rinse (for about 10 mins) and they make a huge diff to the feel of your hair.  Add them to a steam treatment and it takes your hair to a whole other level:

http://www.amazon.com/Biolage-Matri...ef=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1261398614&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/BIOLAGE-Matri...ef=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1261398614&sr=8-4


http://public.fotki.com/stellagirl76/products/ceramides.html


HTH's


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## Jade Feria (Mar 30, 2010)

*This thread has alot of great info. Subbing!*


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## simplyhair (May 5, 2010)

researching...read later


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## blupeace (May 16, 2010)

Bumping, 'cause this is a great thread!!!


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## disgtgyal (Jul 19, 2010)

bumping for updates... I' thinking about trying the biolage repair


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## LaidBak (Oct 3, 2010)

Bumping for the ladies in the Ceramides challenge


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## halee_J (Oct 3, 2010)

awsome thread!This info helped me realize that no-lye made my hair more dry and encouraged me to try ceramides. Its been a great ride ever since!


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## LaidBak (Oct 2, 2011)

Great thread.
Bumping.


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## xcuzememiss (Dec 1, 2011)

Bump.. bc a lot of people should know this !


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## pre_medicalrulz (Dec 1, 2011)

hmmmmm I think you may have helped me figure out a big issue that I was having the first months to almost year of my journey! I use no lye. I think. soft and beautiful? and I never did many  protein treatments, only moisture treatments. my hair would not stop breaking. that was from june 2010 to jan 2011. then I decided to switch up to only nexxus products and do protein treatments at every wash (every 2 weeks). still using soft & beautiful. april 2011 to dec 2011 no more breakage and more retention. the proof is in the pics!  check the massive mess in my pic collage in my album.  

great thread! going to do more research.

Sent from my LG-MS690 using LG-MS690


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## Guinan (Dec 13, 2012)

I just discovered this thread. Great info for relaxed & texlax ladies.

Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch Q using LHCF


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## lamaria211 (Dec 14, 2012)

http://relaxedhairhealth.blogspot.com/2012/07/create-healthy-cuticle-layer-intensify.html?m=1
Another great read on ceramides!


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